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Out-Thought, Out-Bought, Out-Fought: Why the "9/11 Truth" Movement Failed
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Sometimes you have to lie to others to buy time to deal with a problem.

But never lie to yourself. –Lt. Gen Bernard C. “Mick” Trainor, USMC (Ret.)

I have cited my late friend “Mick” Trainor’s words elsewhere, and kept them in mind since he said them to me in the late 1980s.They ought to be graven in granite in the minds of everyone of good heart in public life. They are also an indictment of the “9/11 Truth” movement as a whole, which tried to speak the truth about this atrocity to the people as well as to those in power, but increasingly lied to itself about the effect it was having. It finally ended in complete failure, lacking only a decent funeral oration.

An Overview

It gives me no pleasure at all to write these words. I personally came to the movement late in 2009, then met many excellent people and worked with many fine editors at a time when overt censorship was still minimal. The best of the “Truthers” shared one thing in common: they were right that the US Government explanation of the 9/11 attacks was singularly flawed, in whole and in all its major parts. But they – and I include myself here – were never able to convey that message in a politically significant way to enough of the American public to matter.

The net effect is that despite innumerable articles, speeches, seminars, videos, protests and the like by tens of thousands of activists, the 20th anniversary of 9/11 came and went with barely a whimper. It was preceded by the collapse of the 9/11 lawyers effort in New York City on which so many had staked their hopes, and the dismissal of Richard Gage – the founder of the seminal “Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth” – from his own organization by his own board. It is tragic enough when evil triumphs, which is what the real planners and perpetrators of 9/11 did. It is even worse when the collapse of the efforts to expose them and to bring them to justice ends in farce.

So Why Did We Fail?

Even posing this question is certain to prompt some – perhaps many – to assert that they are still fighting, and as long as they do, they have not yet lost. This assumes that effort without effect matters, and perhaps in a metaphysical sense, it does.

But nothing we have done to date has produced a corresponding result. We went from Bush to Obama to Trump to Biden, and each administration saw a continuous growth in Jewish influence within the government and in Israeli power (which was a major goal of 9/11, after all). Trump was easily the most pro-Israel president in my long (80 years) memory, which took some doing, and Biden’s administration is cast in the same mould. None ever called into question the essential elements of the original US Government case on 9/11. None even hinted in the most oblique manner that Israel abroad and the assorted mostly Jewish neo-conservatives at home had any part to play in that event and what ensued. How could they? Many of those responsible were or still are in the government.

Countering the official narrative on the 9/11 attacks and exposing the real culprits was admittedly a daunting task from the beginning. The real perpetrators – not the handful of hapless named Arabs including pilots who could not fly the type of aircraft hijacked, but the ones who wired three buildings at the World Trade Center for controlled demolition, arranged for the attack on the Pentagon which conveniently wiped out the team auditing the missing \$2.3 trillion in Pentagon funds, and orchestrated the US Government support and protection apparatus for them – held all the aces. Not just what the US Government itself could and did marshal on their behalf, but virtually all of the mainstream media increasingly echoed the official 9/11 narrative. Hollywood and country music (CMT has the same type of owners as Hollywood and the networks) combined to produce movies and music reinforcing the official narrative. The wars in Afghanistan and then Iraq as part of the illusory “war on terror” both nailed that down, and later shifted focus away from 9/11 to the wars themselves – not coincidentally, another major goal of the 9/11 attacks.

So where did it all go wrong, given the mountain of evidence and analyses on the side of the “Truthers” – enough to make the mountain of evidence about actual fraud in the 2020 elections seem like a molehill? First of all, we were out-thought. We knew what we were against: the US Government case on 9/11. But we did not know how to present that case to the public in a coherent way that mattered to them – there were many (I would say too many) ideas, but no strategy. Think of the 9/11 Truth movement as a variant of China’s “Hundred Flowers” campaign in Mao Zedong’s early years in power. That one’s slogan was “let a hundred flowers bloom, let a thousand thoughts contend.” And when those thoughts did contend, after a while the Chinese government cut them down. It hasn’t been that gruesome (yet) for 9/11 Truthers, but the sheer number of contending – and often contradictory or mutually exclusive – ideas presented, some sensible but many not, without any overarching design meant a good deal of activity with little or no practical effect.

Our opponents, in contrast, seized the initiative from the outset, and never lost it. (I would love to meet with whoever devised their plan, and I do not mean the 1990s PNAC document on “A New American Century” – it was masterful.) Their strategy was simple: name an enemy, attack at once while people are still stunned (the long-standing “rally around the flag” syndrome), take the war home (the misbegotten “Patriot Act” and its bastard offspring, the “War on Terror”), keep reminding people of it (e.g. TSA at airports), and never ever let people forget any of the above.

To safeguard the narrative, any who question what is being done (the “Truthers”) are dismissed as quacks, derided as fools, or treated as handmaidens to the terrorists. Governance by fear is not in theory the best form of governing, but it keeps most people from rethinking just why in the hell are we doing this? And it worked – forget what happened to the “9/11 Truth” movement, which never really found an effective response – just look at how quickly the corresponding peace movement faded into insignificance.

Second, we were out-bought. It is an old saying that when money talks, everything else walks, and I expect that has been true throughout history. It certainly determined the course of the 9/11 Truth movement, and all but dictated its failure. For all their efforts individually and collectively, the Truthers were never able to garner the support of even one major individual, non-profit or corporate donor. Not one. Financing of our efforts was done on a literal shoestring, via monetizing videos or Patreon or similar pay-per-view efforts – IF they were permitted, and increasingly they were demonetized. None of the conservative billionaires or foundations supported our efforts, with anything more than a pittance – and that only rarely. Nor did Arab-Americans – especially Palestinian-Americans – step forward in support, even though they ought to have understood that pinning 9/11 on Israel and its supporters would inevitably work to their own benefit.

So why was this the case? I expect insofar as American donors were concerned, almost all – no matter which political party they preferred – supported Israel by 2001. And the more perceptive of them (or their program directors) knew, suspected or feared that a close examination of the evidentiary trail to 9/11 would lead directly or indirectly to Israel and its supporters in the United States – which would mean the wrath of the American people, would be visited on both. This they did not want. As for Arab-Americans and especially Palestinian-Americans, those I knew simply did not want to be bothered – they were safe, their investments were prospering, and that was enough.

The 9/11 planners and perpetrators, on the other hand, had a much easier task financially. The US Government and its immense resources were at their beck and call. Billionaires and multi-billion dollar individuals, foundations and corporations funded their activities and those of the organizations which supported them. The American Jewish lobby – yes, it does exist – look at the website of the “Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations” which has 51 member organizations (of which AIPAC and ADL are but two) and 3 adjunct organizations plus the SPLC – threw all of its considerable political and monetary support into the balance against the Truthers. Incidental Patreon payouts and occasional YouTube proceeds didn’t much matter against those odds. And not surprisingly, they prevailed.

Third, we were out-fought. We fought the war for 9/11 Truth as badly as the US fought the wars in Vietnam and Afghanistan, and like the US in those places, absent a coherent strategy, we lost. The movement was infiltrated from the outset, those of us who fought the good fight knew it, but lacking any organization, any strategy, or any monetary resources, were powerless to excise or even counter them. Many Truthers seemed in all too many instances to have spent as much effort attacking or criticizing one another as we did pursuing the supposed goal of undermining the government case.

Moreover, most of us – and I am a prime transgressor here – misunderstood the proper focus of our criticism. I and many others focused on the WTC – especially WTC7 – because it was so blatantly obvious that the three towers were brought down by controlled demolitions, with the impacting planes (or whatever) serving merely as gruesome distractions from that fact. But we forgot that even if we had convinced people that this did happen, they had no way to organize and do anything about it, given the near-total subservience of the mainstream media and increasingly the social media to Israel. The proper focus should have been the Pentagon attack – convince the military then of what had happened and who had done it, and they had the means to do something about it. Today, it is probably too late: means or not, the will is mostly gone.

In contrast to this haphazard and misguided approach to working through 9/11, the “bad guys and gals” did well. We Truthers (to reuse an apt analogy applicable here] were like a thousand or more people standing in a circle, shooting arrows in all directions (and sometimes at one another) with no attention to impact or effectiveness. We told ourselves that we were firing arrows, and that more people understood why we were doing it. That we hit little or nothing never seemed to register. But our opponents were like that same number of archers in a circle shooting collectively into the center: they were on target, largely did no damage to one another – and at least marginalized the 9/11 Truth movement, and ultimately made it irrelevant. If there is anything worse than fighting and failing, it is fighting and being meaningless.

L’Envoi

So where do we go from here? It ought to be abundantly clear that simply refilling our quivers, doing more podcasts or articles or whatever, won’t work. More of the same when that same has failed in the past is never smart. Nor are we going to alter the financial framework much, and the political situation is grim: We have an America that is on the verge of social and economic collapse, overlaid by an impending Democrat party dominance of the political system for the foreseeable future. If we are lucky, there’ll be a civil war that precludes that outcome. If not, worrying about who did 9/11 and what it means will be the least of our problems.

From my point of view, anyone who wishes to pursue 9/11 Truth, should reorient their focus to the Pentagon attack. Stop this nonsense about whether the 757 really hit: the plane simply doesn’t fit, the visual damage doesn’t support such a plane impacting the building, and onsite witnesses an hour after the attack found nothing to support a that happening. Don’t waste time arguing about what it was: Simply point out that a 757 did not hit, that the named pilot who could not fly a propeller-driven Cessna could not possibly have flown a 757 if it had been there, and use that as the point of departure. That woke pansy of a Chairman JCS aside, there are still some officers who lost friends there and who still have a sense of professionalism – they are your proper target audience.

For my part, doing what I can to try and stave off the coming train wreck that is the United States is far more important. Our country, our society, our very culture is being eroded from within. Anyone who does not see impending disaster is living in a dream world. It may well be too late to avert catastrophe: 2020 was the time to do it, and faced with the choice of standing up and fighting – and I mean fighting with weapons, not words – conservative patriots did nothing. If the ship of state wrecks on the rocks and shoals, do not blame the Left – or those who orchestrated the 9/11 attacks – look into a mirror. It was our fault – not others, but ours – and none other. If you want to do better, put 9/11 on the back burner and save the country – 9/11 will still be there when the smoke clears if we win, and if we lose, it won’t matter.

Alan Ned Sabrosky (PhD, University of Michigan) is a ten-year US Marine Corps veteran. He served two tours in Vietnam with the 1st Marine Division and is a graduate of the US Army War College. He can be contacted at [email protected]

 
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  1. Chris Moore says: • Website

    The failure of the 9/11 Truth movement comes down to a simple slogan: You can’t fight the Fed.

    So does the failure of the anti-Zionist movement, the anti-war movement, the anti-imperialist movement, the anti-interventionist movement, the pro-White movement, the Constitutionalist movement, etc. etc.

    Top ((Jews)) understood something simple early on: get control of the money, and you get control of nearly everything. Mayer Rothschild even laid it out: “Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws!”

    The ((Jews)) have an iron grip around the Fed, and everyone who matters knows it. In fact, that’s why they matter — because they’ve accepted it and bowed to it.

    So you can’t put the cart before the horse, and putting 9/11 truth before breaking the Zionist iron grip on the Fed is doing just that. But it can be used to put a chink in their armor, as can a lot of other truths about the ((Jews)) and their evil works.

  2. I have been trying to convince folks on “conservative” blogs for years with stunningly little success.

    While they claim they don’t believe the mass media propaganda, the reality is that they are captured by it at a deep subconscious level when it “fits” with their previous prejudices.

    While the “we are good and God is on our side, those funny looking furners are bad” meme is hilariously dumb, it has captured the imagination and loyalty of humans throughout all history.

    The media manipulators are experts at their craft and stick to the tried and true.

    They are at it again these days with the glorious clean wonderful scientific vaxxed vs the ignorant kooky filthy unvaxxed memes.

    If we own and control the mass media outlets we win. If we don’t we lose.

    It is just that simple.

  3. This is a timely and well written article. However, given the constraints of human weaknesses that make such false flags possible, is it possible that any strategy for exposing 9/11 truth could have been successful? I don’t know. But Mr. Sabrosky is correct that we should analyze what has been tried, and we should be open to criticism, and we need to do better.
    But the big elephant in the room is no longer 9/11. If this ongoing orchestrated “pandemic” is allowed to proceed to the end goals of the global predators, then all will be lost for the free world. A “pandemic” truth movement will not be tolerated by the new world order. Unless we recognize that, switch gears, and find some way to expose and kill this new false flag as it is happening, the world as we know it is lost.
    And 9/11 will become a minor footnote in the new, official, “history” as recorded at the Ministry of Truth.

    • Thanks: St-Germain
  4. I think that this is an excellent article. I must take issue with a bit of your phraseology, though. “We” did not fail the Truth Movement; the U.S. court system failed the Truth Movement. The entire U.S. court system has pretty much been “bought off” by the Big Money interests – the “Cabal,” the “Ruling Elite,” the “Secret Team” or whatever else you would like to call them.

    I have said this many times before and I will say it again – unless and until a grand jury with complete subpoena powers is convened, the Truth Movement will go nowhere. There is a very simple reason for why a grand jury such as this has never been convened. Simply put, judges DO NOT WANT TO DIE. And they do not want to see any harm come to their families. It is that simple!

    Thank you.

    • Agree: Iris, Nancy, Sarah
    • Replies: @Nancy
  5. I always wondered why no one focused on April Gallop’s statement that she saw no evidence of a plane when she exited through the hole in the Pentagon wall.

    • Replies: @dimples
    , @WinstonSmith
  6. Notsofast says:

    ….the movement was infiltrated from the out set…. all movements are infiltrated from the out set, this is the standard operating procedure as we see with blm, antifa, proud boys, oath keepers, atomwaffen, kkk, lgbtqetc, not fucking around coalition, me too, q anon, and i can go on all day. any group that can’t be turned will be set up or meet with a terrible accident, this is the only job of the federal bureau of instigation. even when caught red handed, ala hunter’s lap top from hell, the mockingbird media echo chamber will stonewall, smear and memory hole any attempt to speak the truth. social media platforms become official government gate keepers, siphoning up all user data and communications and funneling it to the nsa to store in the cthulhu data collection center in utah. covid gives them the opportunity to literally spread this around the world, in the clampdown of the globalist police state. any countries that resist will be color revolutioned by soros, the ford foundation and the n.e.d.

    it seems the only way the truth can ever come out is for these neocon, zionist, globalists to start a world war and bite off more than they can chew with the victors exposing their dark deeds to prove the moral superiority of the new overlords. this seems unlikely and if it did happen it would involve massive death and destruction on an unimaginable level. not much to look forward to either way, the truth may die with us, as the younger generation seems to have pretty much bought into the narrative hook line and sinker, i know my son doesn’t want to hear any of my boomer “conspiracy theories”.

    • Agree: Tjoe
    • Replies: @TitusAlone
  7. They got obsessed with all that dueling engineering crap.

    Nobody cares nor understands.

    The US government attacked its own people, not Middle Easterners, not anybody else.

    That is the truth. They should have kept to that truth and dumped the engineering blather.

    More rhetoricians, less engineers.

    • Replies: @restless94110
  8. Dutch Boy says:
    @Chris Moore

    A Japanese policeman was once asked why 99% of trials in Japan end in conviction. His reply: “It’s no good to fight against power.” Until the current power structure changes, all truth or reform movements will fail.

    • Replies: @Danindc
  9. I watched TV coverage in DC on September 11th – I was in Manassas.

    WTTG had a live reporter interviewing people who were on I-95 at the time of the ‘impact’

    this quote has always stuck out in my mind:

    Q: what did you see?

    A: it was a small white private jet without any windows, it swept in low and hit the building

    that segment was never aired again or posted anywhere online, but I saw it with my own eyes the day it happened

  10. JimDandy says:

    Why the “9/11 Truth” Movement Failed.

    I think I know why-hy-hy.

  11. lloyd says: • Website

    The 911 instigators knew the big lie of 911 could not be indefinitely sustained. America was after all a free society with a Constitution. The population would turn on them as the American people turned on the monopoly corporations in the early 1900s. For something much less. Now our lives are preoccupied each day not with the big political questions but with the details of social distancing, correct language and thoughts, masking, hygiene. This resembles nothing so much as the Medieval Shetls. The opposition to this is dominated by Christian Zionists. Now the Internet is moving into corporate commercial control. It looks like a fait accompli. However history has a way of surprise endings to permanent regimes. I don’t trust this article’s suggestion of a military take over. They have their own secrets to hide and the military might start fighting each other. All very third world but that now is the approaching economic situation

    • Agree: Skeptikal
  12. @admin user

    I just got an email from an Army officer at the scene who confirms the small hole made at the point of impact, which was then blown out by “something” inside the building – in which I worked for nearly 6 years. Thank you for your info. -Alan

  13. In order to establish whether the 9-11 Truth movement failed, you’d have to ascertain what constitutes success. What were we expecting to achieve, and were we realistic?

    I always compared 9-11 to the JFK assassination. Not only their similar objective to trigger major wars, but also their cover-up at all costs of what actually happened. And judging by the aftermath of the JFK assassination, my expectations were low on what could be achieved in terms of influencing the establishment narrative. But that didn’t make the effort less worthwhile. JFK was assassinated 58 years ago and its research community is still active.

    It would be naive to think members of the US government and Deep State at large would ever jump ship in our lifetime to confess “yeah, we had the towers rigged with nano-thermite explosives and brought them down ourselves.” That was never going to happen.

    The same goes for the MSM, although the extent to which they consolidated and closed ranks on narrative exceeded the worries of most of us. The gloves are off in the attack on the 1st amendment, and that has been a learning experience for most of us. I’m probably not alone in that the quest for 9-11 Truth prepared me for the Covid scamdemic, and whatever else the psychopaths have in store for humanity. As long as we are open to evaluate our actions and learn from them, we can turn our “failures” into something positive.

    As much as it pains me to agree with Karl Rove, he did hit the nail on the head when he said:

    when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.

    A truth movement in itself is never enough, because it will always be behind the curve, reacting to events rather than create its own. Contrary to John 8:32 and the CIA motto, the truth alone will not set you free. You need to act upon the truth. And by “truth” I mean the fundamental truths of how you are willing to live and improve your own community, rather than getting forever lost in the minutiae of a particular conspiracy. Because that can all too easily become a distraction. We already know they’re evil. Are we that masochist that have to consume their evil in every sordid detail?

    • Replies: @Miro23
    , @anonymous
    , @Iris
  14. Alan, you are right that military officers should have been the truth movement’s main target audience. You and I talked many years ago about organizing speaking gigs at American Legion halls and other military and veterans hang-outs in a bottom-up strategy. In retrospect that would have been a better idea than naively betting on the common sense, decency, and courage of the American people.

    Dr. Bob Bowman USAF was doing well with his speaking tours, and won election to Congress on a 9/11 truth platform (and then was deprived of his victory by crooked vote counting). He would have been a huge asset in waking up the military, which may have something to do with him suddenly dying of cancer in 2013.

    • Thanks: JWalters
  15. Getaclue says:
    @Chris Moore

    This is why they “lost” — the opposition is willing to do this (current AG Garland was heavily involved in OKC cover up by the way) — murder by torture classified as “suicide” — and will get away with it even when it is completely blatant and obvious because they control “Law Enforcement” especially Federal (FBI totally….) and the Mainslime Media completely —

    The side that murdered 3,000 people on 911 and millions thereafter in the Wars predicated upon their False Flag have no problem with individual or Mass Murder and face no prospects of prosecution. (The current situation with the Mass Murderer Fauci facing no repercussions, actual creator of the CVirus in WuHan, is again a case in point).

    No justice for Terrance Yeakey = no justice for you!:

    https://thefreethoughtproject.com/okc-bombing-hero-terrance-yeakey/

    http://www.riflewarrior.com/who_killed_terry_yeakey.html

    • Thanks: Skeptikal
    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  16. Anonymous[318] • Disclaimer says:

    “Why did we fail?”

    You failed because Americans have become losers. Or if I was telling one of you face-to-face and you were bigger than me, I’d say: You failed because Americans have, like the rest of the West, allowed their society to become totally infantilized.

    This infantilization began with the holocaust hoax. One hundred percent of the evidence offered by the Nazi camps shows they were labour and transit camps where the enforced labourers were treated quite well.

    It’s the most childish hoax ever perpetrated, and it seems that 80% of Whites believe it and the other 20% pretend to believe it. Whether the 80% or 20%, you are dealing with cowardly infants.

    What Americans should have been aware of back in the day was that when the Jews saw that this act of infantilization was being successful, they’d expand it to all sections of Western life.

    [MORE]

    Infantilization suits the Jews because – apart from the high IQ Autistic-esque sociopaths at the top – the “middle management” Jews are actually very unintelligent, and this coupled with narcissistic personality disorders and a plethora of paraphilias.

    The top Jews wanted to have their “middle manager” Jews run the institutions, but the only way they could get these very incapable “managers” accepted was to cower the institutions’ former controllers, and dumb down the general public. 

    The Holocaust hoax showed them that dumbing down, or infantilization, would be a successful strategy to pursue.

    How dumb is the general Western public today and what type of inane tripe are Western universities churning out? The following is an example.

    Professor Caroline Sturdy Colls holds a PhD into Holocaust archaeology from a British university – talk about a made-up discipline that suits the modern unintelligent woke university graduates. Recently Colls made a documentary which “investigated” a former Nazi transit and labour camp: Treblinka: Hitler’s Secret Killing Machine.

    First, this “professor” had a plane fly over the camp with ground penetrating radar in an attempt to find mass graves by checking for ground disturbances. This plane found no disturbances to indicate that there were any mass burial plots in the vicinity of the camp.

    But “professor” Coll simply had to find some burial plots. Thus, she and her documentary crew went to a churchyard on the outskirts of the Treblinka site. This was a Polish Christian churchyard and burial plot which dated back to the 1800s – I fu*king kid-you-not.

    Professor Coll and her crew then got between headstones and crosses in this churchyard and dug a few holes, and, lo-and-behold, found 40 pieces of human bone. Then Coll boldly stated to the camera that this was evidence of a mass grave at Treblinka.

    If you view the documentary, you’ll see from simply looking at Coll, without ever hearing her speak, that she’s far more idiot than PhD.

    She and her crew then dug in another part of the Treblinka site. And dug, and dug, and dug, until they found two teeth. These teeth were not from a human, though. They were from a shark. From millions of years ago when Poland was under sea water.

    So, get this: Professor Coll and her Jew masters claim that 800,000 Jews were murdered and disposed of in Treblinka. Considering the times, we’ll estimate that all of these 800,000 were missing half their teeth before being “put to death”.

    Then we multiply 800,000 people by 16 teeth each, and we get 12,800,000 teeth. Even a cretin would agree that if two teeth from a shark survived there for millions of years, then some of these 12,800,000 human teeth from just 70 years ago would still be lying around.

    If you want to take this multiplication up with professor Colls: [email protected]

    After this particular dig, and having found nothing but the shark teeth, the disgustingly idiotic Coll said to the camera (I paraphrase): “Well, there’s nothing here, the Nazis did a very good job of cleaning up the evidence”.

    Professor Colls proves beyond doubt that the modern British PhD doctoral degree is little more than a bathroom ornament.  

    On a blog it’s stated that Coll: “ … has also pioneered the use of a non-invasive methodology that allows the scientific, ethical and religious aspects associated with her studies to be upheld.” http://blogs.staffs.ac.uk/archaeology/projects/holocaust-landscapes/genius-and-genocide/finding-treblinka/

    This is the perfect word salad. The type of utterly meaningless dribble that modern grade-inflated PhD morons like professor Coll endlessly churn out in an attempt to reinforce their sense of self-importance and make themselves look Shakespearian to their hordes of emotionally illiterate followers.

    This shockingly disgusting documentary by the utterly shameless, fatuous and childish professor Coll was shown both in the US and United Kingdom. The general public have to be extremely dumb for TV companies to have the nerve to air nauseating tripe like this.

    Showing the general American public evidence about what actually took place on 9/11 is a waste of time. As professor Coll has proven, the general public in the West are only able to comprehend fatuous tripe when it’s presented to them in a cartoonish and infantile fashion.

    It’s no wonder five or six Mossad agents could dance, sing and take pictures in New York as explosives demolished the towers. They have nothing to fear from the great infantile demographic that the founding White race have become.

  17. Anon[402] • Disclaimer says:

    A very important article and analysis but extremely painful to read, especially as we witness the complete collapse of America currently and the total control by Israel and the zionists in govt.

    To my mind, it was and is almost impossible for fight against the gigantic sums of money aligned with taking complete control, i.e. Israel and the zionists.

    And equally important, as the author points out: ” the near-total subservience of the mainstream media and increasingly the social media to Israel.”

    The media became the echo chamber for the false govt narrative and the truth movement had no possible alternatives to get its message out.

  18. You lost because elite Jews TOTALLY control US discourse, in politics, the MSM and ‘entertainment’. Anyone who dared raise their heads would be DESTROYED. And who did so but made a mark, would be killed, or framed for kiddy porn or bestiality, or something. The only hope to be free from elite Jewish and Zionazi malevolence is for the US to collapse, but even then, safe from their redoubt, they would still pull the strings, controlling the rubble. It is a situation unique in history, as far as I can tell, and the overlordship is not benevolent.

    • Agree: Iris
  19. @Kevin Barrett

    Dying of cancer, like Hugo Chavez. All that research was to some avail, then.

  20. @Dick Lowman

    There is NO ‘free’ world, for fuck’s sake. What gave you that bizarre idea? A life-time of brainwashing, perhaps.

    • Replies: @rufus clyde
  21. anonymous[120] • Disclaimer says:

    Well one of the major 9-11 truthers was retired US Army Major General Albert N. Stubblebine III and even he couldn’t get traction on this issue either

    For those who haven’t seen it, brilliant 9-11 hoax humour about the Pentagon strike – the magical ‘Pentalawn’ remaining totally unscathed even after major plane debris crashing down upon it
    http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/killtown/penta_lawn.htm

    Huge confusion was sown with multiple 9-11 stories, some shilled by the ‘confuse & conquer’ establishment
    (1) Official story – Muslims with planes
    (2) ‘Israeli art students’ installing explosives during their NYT-documented visit some weeks earlier (my vote)
    (3) ‘Mini-nuclear bombs’ in WTC cellars even tho nuclear weapons are a hoax, Hiroshima was napalmed like Tokyo
    (4) Nano-thermite
    (5) Directed energy ray

    The ‘nuclear weapons hoax’ since 1945, the ‘moon landings’ hoax since 1969 … not surprising they were able to pull off this one

    • Troll: skrik
    • Replies: @TheTrumanShow
  22. sonofman says:

    There is absolutely no failure by the 9-11 truth movement. They convincingly presented scientific factualities that made the goverment explanation dubious, therefore increasing government mistrust, which accumulated into the election of a president who is not an established politician. More than any other organisation, the 9-11 truther movement has red-pilled enough people to awareness of the powers controlling governments with their precarius agendas and incomprehensible narratives. The failures are by individual recreant politicians and the government agencies that they run.

    • Thanks: GMC, rufus clyde
    • Replies: @follyofwar
  23. @obwandiyag

    Actually, the opposite should have been done. Buildings simply cannot fall the way those three did, unless their support below was taken out.

    You don’t need to know why–but there are simple explanations available.

    You don’t need to know how it was done–it doesn’t matter, since it could not be any other way (the supports below were destroyed).

    You don’t need to know who did it–let that be found in a real investigation–if one ie ever undertaken.

    You don’t need to know why it was done–only that it could not have been done any other way except that the supports below were taken out.

    The laws of physics and engineering are immutable. That’s all you need to know. And that’s all that should be and should have been pointed out over and over and over again.

    Even on into today. 9-11 truth isn’t dead. It’ll always be there.

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @MarkU
  24. anon[803] • Disclaimer says:

    This is, ah, um, less than apposite on several levels.

    First, you restrict your definition of success to “a movement,” whatever the fuck that is. Having demanded a movement, you fixate on AE911 to the exclusion of, for instance, consensus911 and probative published research. A sizeable chunk of the population knows that the government story is bullshit, that the entire US command structure did not fail, it attacked us. The official story is a joke to roughly the upper two quintiles of the IQ distribution. That’s not bad for the totalitarian police state you’re stuck in. To expect anything of the captive US judicial cesspool would be idiotic – of course nothing will come of that.

    Second, you diffuse culpability to Jews. That is so stupid that the actual perps are going to give you a medal in the vault. That is like saying, “People named Richard did it,” because Richard Blee did it.

    Third, if you’re going to generalize from the multiple CIA officials and agents we caught red-handed doing 911, and catch more of them, maybe instead of checking their foreskins, you could just look and see where they work. And where they get their institutionalized impunity in municipal law, regulation, eyes-only foreign liaison agreements, and sub rosa assemblages. And where they get their ultra vires access to resources at all levels of government.

    Frankly, this reads like divisive JTRIG weasel work: histrionic despair, disingenuous criticism, and easy-mock hooknosed bugaboos.

    CIA did 911. Grow a pair and come out with it. What are they gonna do, send you to Nam?

  25. anon[266] • Disclaimer says:

    Focus should be on the followings:

    1 Why were the Wolfowitz and his gang trying to destroy Iraq from 1979 (NYTimes-Sunshine Warrior)
    2 Why did Wolfowitz say to Clarke in 1991 that USA should destroy Iraq Iran Libya Somalia Yemen Syria and 1 more before Russia or China could challenge the war of aggression ?.
    3 Why did Wolofoowtz and his prostitute writer friend try to frame Iraq and Saddam in the WTC 1993 attack?
    4 Why did Wolfowitz and his gang prevent 40 warnings or 50 warnings about an imminent attack by using airplanes or some other method on the USA’s soil reaching the media, public,and the Bush jr?
    5 Why Did within 7 hours Wolfowitz start saying that 911 was caused by Iraq?
    6 Why did the dancing Israelis dance and how did they get the information of an and ongoing imminent attack?
    7 Why were the Israelis carrying multiple passports box cutters maps and many many thousands dollars ? and the message on the phone from Israel farm?
    8 How did WTC 7 fall and why ?
    9 How could a plane hit pentagon the way it hit?
    10 How could a passport survive a plane on flame a building under fire fall and temperature of thousands of centigrade and drop on the ground clean and crisp?
    11 Why did AIPAC threaten Fox about the 4 part series asking them to knock it off?
    12 Above all why Iraq ? Why did it dominate post 911 ?

    THEN
    What about anthrax ? Who did and why and how?

    Then

    We can add countless false flag efforts by USA and Israel since 911 to destabilize and destroy Syria ,Libya,Sudan Lebanon and Iran .

    These events should be taken into accounts .These events have become acceptable after 911 -thanks to Neoconized media and Zionist shit ( made of money an nd bribes and threat and blackmail ) embraced by by US . But these are still false and still crimes and fi gets should be pointed at the Zionist complex . It only says that experts have been busy before .911 was their prior crime

    Just like Lavon Affair give rise to USS Liberty so did illegal 19991 war give rise to sanction and 911 and 2003 war

    Zionist can geta way with lavon they know they can get away with USS Liberty and 911.

  26. @sonofman

    Being a builder of large buildings, as well as a native New Yorker living in luxury in Trump Tower, Trump knew damn well that the 9/11 official story was a complete farce. When asked about it at the time, he even said so, (although hasn’t that interview been disappeared?). Yet, when Trump was president, he didn’t even release the 28 missing pages, although he said he would. He also backed off on his promise to release all the JFK documents that have remained classified for over 50 freakin’ years.

    I guess lifetime DC swamp critter, slimy Schumer, was right. Fuck with the intelligence community and they have “six was to Sunday” at getting back at you.

  27. Dear Mr Sabrosky

    As you will know, the global mafia has spent about five centuries in their hidden quest for world domination, out of sight and above the law, and by now control all countries on earth. They have dedicated the 21th century to a play called “Revelations”: their End Game, the electronic control of all individual humans aka Global Digital Prison aka the “internet of bodies” (Klaus Schwab).

    So far, not one of their enormous crimes – although often exposed by truthers – has been understood by the public, nor have they ever been prosecuted or sentenced. The official narrative is still written in stone. The list of atrocities they got away with includes WW1, WW2 (including the making of Hitler and his persecution of the common Jews, see Rabbi Moshe Shonfeld’s The Holocaust Victims Accuse) and almost all other wars, the Russian Revolution and probably all other revolutions at least since Oliver Cromwell, assassinations and much more.

    Truthers “wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places” – Ephes. 6:12.

    Although we cannot win, we must fight. The essence of life “no es el destino, sino el camino”.

    Those who did or do participate in the fight don’t have to blame themselves, and can look in the mirror without feeling ashamed.

    • Agree: JWalters, Bro43rd
    • Thanks: rufus clyde
    • Replies: @rufus clyde
  28. Anon[361] • Disclaimer says:

    I’m sorry, but I have a close personal friend of long standing whose neighbors were on the plane that crashed into the Pentagon. Their daughters (5 or 6 years old) were close friends. Those people DIED when their scheduled flight crashed. To say that airliner, which took off from National Airport WITHIN SIGHT of the Pentagon, was somehow NOT a routine, scheduled flight and that EVERYONE ABOARD did not die BECAUSE of the crash is, as we used to say in the ’60s, a “Pipe Dream”.

    I also WORKED WITH several individuals who had routine meetings at the Pentagon that day. They were IN THE PARKING LOT and WATCHED the airliner crash. I was across the river in DC, and it took an HOUR OR SO even for DC to realized what had actually happened. At which point The Government went into FULL PANIC MODE, and it took me perhaps 12 HOURS to get home. (normally less than a 2 hour commute)

    But you’re saying ALL of this was somehow scheduled IN ADVANCE and FAKED??? Dude, yer WAY passed fruitcake.

    I also read articles in the Washington Post a month or so after the crash that having hijacked the cockpit, the Hijackers were apparently SUPPOSED to crash into the White House, but as ANY Washington tourist can tell you, the White House is SURROUNDED by TREES and UNRELATED buildings. So FINDING the White House from a LOST, LOW FLYING aeroplane is a reasonable challenger. And so, as the GUESS goes, choosing the Pentagon, which can EASILY be seen from the White House area, was an act of desperation. Failing to clear the exterior walls (to crash in the 5-sided center) was merely part of challenge to untrained pilots.

  29. Hans says:

    The jews have been using the Big Lie from the beginning. Which explains Alex Jones’, Mike Rupperts’, Rabbi Rivero’s et al’s non-stop yammering about “Hitler’s big lie technique.”

    The public (flock) has been leaderless for a long time since the jews were able to infiltrate and corrupt the Christian churches. It is amusing to listen to “truthers” hammer against Christianity and yammer about the public somehow being “rational.”

    Your recommendation years ago regarding military newspapers etc was a good one.

    I take comfort in knowing that were a dealing with an Evil of Biblical proportions.

    Whether we win or lose down here is not the real issue.

    Fuck them and keep working and praying.

  30. MarkU says:
    @restless94110

    You are right of course but the very opposite course was taken, deliberately it appears. The 9/11 truth movement was hijacked by self appointed ambassadors and advocates and steered onto the rocks.

    If one is trying to convince people that something is true why make more claims than you have to? Why add extra embellishments or extra conditions that make it less (never more) believable?

    Consider the ‘no planes’ hypothesis:-

    Instead of asking people to believe one implausible seeming thing you are asking them to believe two. Not only does one have to believe that the towers were destroyed by controlled demolition but also believe that giant hologram projectors were used to simulate aircraft crashes.

    Consider the ‘nuke’ hypothesis.

    Again you still have to believe in a controlled demolition but you also have to believe in a super-secret sort of mini-nuke that lacks all the usual tell-tale features of a nuclear explosion.

    And my all-time-favourite, the ‘energy beam hypothesis’.

    Once again we must believe in the controlled demolition but now we must also believe in some sort of energy weapon capable of turning steel to dust (an effect that as far as I know has never been demonstrated to exist on any scale) Most versions of this hypothesis also require the belief in a weaponised satellite to host the weapon.

    The best way to control the opposition is to be the opposition.

    • Thanks: L.K
    • Replies: @restless94110
  31. Truthers could get no traction because the majority of Americans could not believe members of their government could be so evil. This also explains why so many if them are lining up for vaxxes and running around everywhere masked up.

    I don’t remember where I read this quip, but it went something like, “I’m not surprised that this crisis brings out the Nazi in so many people, but I am surprised at how many are willingly getting on the trains.”

    • Agree: Jeffrey A Freeman
    • Thanks: Biff, skrik
  32. @Anon

    The alleged “airplane” made a totally impossible maneuver allegedly “crashing” into the Pentagon.

    A real airliner would have lost airworthiness far away from the “target”.

    You can do the homework if you want to…actually, have some fun, get one of those air simulator video games and try to hit the Pentagon.

    One thousand times–bet you _still_ couldn’t do it.

    • Replies: @schnellandine
  33. @MarkU

    You appear to believe that some meanies deliberately distracted people with their contrived theories.

    But it’s human nature to try and explain things, with this theory or that theory. It’s also human nature (not a plot of some kind) to demand a motive and a logical scenario, instead of focusing on the impossibility of the collapses.

    So I don’t go with you on it being someone or ones who are stirring up the pot.

    Thus, I’ve never had any problem whatsoever with any and all of the theories. Because who cares? Because buildings can’t fall like that. Period.

    As far as I’m concerned 9-11 isn’t dead or buried..

    But to have it go further than it has already would take a country that understands science and physics (along with a healthy foundation in logic), and that’s not happening any time soon. So they got away with it, and–aside from some smart leaders in the MidEast, who appear to have immediately figured out it was a Mossad thing, all most people are left with is the feeling they’ve been lied to (the majority of Americans now, I believe), but no clear idea of how to proceed.

    Once you realize that buildings can’t fall like that, ever? That might happen one day.Or not. For the sake of America you’d hope so. But it’s not very likely. Americans are content with the feels and the non-science, un-logical way of living. The others of us who know physics and logic are now in the minority, suggesting a massive decline in American innovation and its standard of living.

    9-11: acknowledge it or lose America. There’s never been any real choice.

  34. R.C. says:

    FWIW (and it ain’t much) I’ve been onboard the 9/11/2001 truth movement since early October 2001.
    First helpful bit: STOP calling it 9/11! It ain’t July the Fourth! It was a singular event that needs to be more analyzed since day one. THEY call it 9/11. Truthers ought to call it 9/11/2001.
    Likewise, Truthers should have fought like hell about the denigration of that word. What a fucked up society when most people think that the description ‘truther’ means addled and kinda paranoid, etc. No, it means someone who supports truth.
    Likewise, calling illegal aliens / illegal immigrants ‘migrants’. They ain’t arctic terns! So why does everyone use the PTB’s fucking terminology? Get with the program and not theirs!
    Most importantly, the real final nail in the coffin was around 2018-19 the last lady in DC and her lawyer who had to pay fines of \$10K & \$20k as I recall. She was the widow who refused the ‘official’ hush money, and that took integrity on both of their parts. By the time it went down, they had been able to provide more information than most people realize and some scumbag bought and sold and owned DC jurist threw it out claiming they’d not presented enough evidence to even have a jury trial! And then the Appellate Court so ruled also! Where was Trump on that? Bought and sold, just more undercover.
    R.C.

    • Agree: TKK
    • Replies: @TitusAlone
    , @TKK
    , @Skeptikal
  35. @anon

    Well cheesy rice, who controls the CIA?

  36. @Justvisiting

    One thousand times–bet you _still_ couldn’t do it.

    More like I might miss one time out of a thousand.

    [MORE]

    The usual fallacy of the ‘couldn’t be done’ types rests on the premise that, given the details of the state’s conspiracy theory, where the jet allegedly hit is where he intended to hit. That’s the start.

    After that, the flightpath is assumed to have been intended. Etc. Of course, most of the people talking about it know shit about flying.

    No, hitting the Pentagon would be easy enough, and a skilled pilot could closely mimic the alleged flight path. Still, I don’t believe the state’s conspiracy theory, and generally don’t bother with theoretical disintegration speeds/loads for the 757 or 767, a bottomless pit of conjecture.

    I’d like to see the ‘truther’ approach toward an average crop duster pilot. Would make the routine crop duster course reversal sound outlandish.

    • Replies: @RodW
  37. This in an unsolicited email from a 9/11 first responder:

    “Doc, I’m retired Army Colonel and USMA grad of ’75. (classmate of our illustrious and totally insane Secdef). No airplane hit the Pentagon. I personally led the first Arlington fire engine up to the perfectly round smoking 4 ft hole in the wall. the hole fire went out, then the Pentagon wall collapsed about 60 yards away. That’s the famous Pentagon photo–blown out from inside in an unoccupied area under refurbishment. I’ve told this story many times over 20 years. but nobody cares, even if they half-believe me. My family gave up listening a long time ago. Anyway, a missile hit the Pentagon and killed a bunch of folks while drilling through 5 rings almost reaching the courtyard. However, We have even BIGGER fish to fry now as we watch our country become Mogadishu on steroids. I’m so glad I never got wounded or maimed while fighting for this country over 30 years and three wars. These American pussies are no longer worth it. if asked, I would tell every cadet at West Point to go home, and help out their family in the coming apocalypse.”

    Q.E.D.

  38. anon[339] • Disclaimer says:

    Gidoudahere 35, very good question. Reasonable people can differ on whether Mossad are the henchmen or the masterminds. It’s a question of inductive logic, after all.

    This commenter thinks they’re henchmen. Why? Because the Zionist entity is a shitty little one-nuke laydown of a state that depends for its existence on US protection. If the zionazis put a foot wrong CIA could let them sink or swim and they’d immediately drown.

    Now then. If for some reason, you think the shark is riding the remora, and Izzies run the CIA, the issue’s very simple: You don’t like Jews leading you around by the nose? Then take the fucking ring out of your nose. CIA is the ring in your nose.

    Just look at these scumbags.

    https://foreverwars.substack.com/p/intellipedia

    They consider any restraint on arbitrary conduct as a threat. And they kill and torture threats. And get away with it.

    • Replies: @JWalters
  39. 911 troofers argue with themselves more than anyone else.

    No consistent message and they debate numerous theories that contradict each other.

    Most have probably switched to the anti-vaxx movement which has the same problems.

    If you are going to take a minority position then you at least need a consistent message and not 10 different theories.

    • Replies: @RestiveUs
  40. TKK says:

    Mr. Sabrosky,

    It also failed because the truth is too horrifying, mind blowing, world shattering to accept.

    So many Americans, my mother included, believe in America. They tear up at Lee Greenwood singing God Bless the USA. They fly the American flag.

    The concept is too much for them to swallow….that the people burning alive and leaping to be jelly on the sidewalk were murdered by the consent of the fake Texan George Bush. I have had little success convincing people that George W. Bush is an elite, blue blood Yankee from a ruthless American crime family. They bought the aww shucks Texas cowboy routine with the Librarian Wife.

    When you have someone who still believes in America as an idea, as a good idea– they cannot make the leap to the idea that 9/11 was a money and power grab with some collateral damage.

    You ask why the 9/11 Truth movement failed.

    Because the implications are too horrifying for most of the populace to digest. It’s unthinkable.

    The movement had to make people accept the unthinkable. A Sisyphean task- probably impossible.

    • Agree: R.C., S, mocissepvis
  41. TKK says:
    @Anon

    The problem is the evidence does not back up your hearsay story. It would not be admitted in court. (Hearsay is an out of court statement offered for the truth of the matter asserted.) Friend’s neighbors daughters?

    The “hole” in the side of the Pentagon was miniscule. The idea that a commercial airliner crashed there is ridiculous. Even “normies” scratch their heads at the Pentagon outlandish story.

    Big claims require big evidence. There is no evidence that supports an alleged D.C airliner crashed into the Pentagon.

    • Agree: mocissepvis
    • Thanks: R.C.
  42. @Alan Sabrosky

    Laser guided bomb, the only thing accurate enough for the job. You were in Nam when they were first used. Laser guided bomb with steel billet penetrator. The exit hole on the “inner ring” of The Pentagon is the give-away.

  43. JWalters says:
    @Alan Sabrosky

    Thanks for this additional piece of conclusive evidence. The mountain of such conclusive evidence could not get through the information dam set up by the criminal financiers who monopolize the weapons companies, the media companies, and the politicians.

    The hopeful trend is the growing public distrust of the “establishment” media and parties. Meanwhile, internet-based anti-establishment forces are inching toward an open discussion of Israel’s crimes. Some unpredictable event will cause that dam to break open, and many people will be ready to pour through, because of the stellar work you and others have done.

    FWIW, here is an alternate approach for the lay public, focusing on clear corruption in the 9/11 report itself. It failed to even mention the collapse of WTC7, clearly violating Congress’s instructions for a complete report. This could not possibly have been an oversight, so it must have been intentional. etc.
    “War Profiteers and 9/11”
    https://warprofiteerstory.blogspot.com/p/war-profiteers-and-911.html

  44. JWalters says:
    @anon

    You are overlooking a mountain of historical evidence.
    “War Profiteers and Israel’s Bank”
    https://warprofiteerstory.blogspot.com/p/war-profiteers-and-israels-bank.html

  45. JWalters says:
    @mulga mumblebrain

    All good points. But they didn’t foresee the internet, and may have overreached. Just as they are reaching for their world capital in Jerusalem, their information control is slipping away. When the Christian Zionists awaken to the reality that the Zionists are the “anti-Christ” (not Russia), “Armageddon” will come down on their heads.

    • Replies: @Druid55
  46. @Notsofast

    it seems the only way the truth can ever come out is for these neocon, zionist, globalists to start a world war and bite off more than they can chew with the victors exposing their dark deeds to prove the moral superiority of the new overlords. this seems unlikely and if it did happen it would involve massive death and destruction on an unimaginable level.

    That is exactly what I think.

    If the US got into a war with China, and lost, some sort of new government would be imposed. Americans would live out some of the experiences of Iraqis after 2003. There would be a new history, to match the new order, and all sorts of sordid stuff would tumble out of the closet.

    But such a lot of destruction and nothing gained … because how could one trust them, either …

    • Agree: Notsofast
    • Replies: @Notsofast
  47. @R.C.

    Most importantly, the real final nail in the coffin was around 2018-19 the last lady in DC and her lawyer who had to pay fines of \$10K & \$20k as I recall. She was the widow who refused the ‘official’ hush money …

    Yes, I agree that was a decisive move into darkness.

    Over the years, though, the suicides of 9/11 truth activists, such as Mike Ruppert, were also chilling.

    It is already odd to look back, and remember that 2005-2010 era, when, despite many harsh circumstances, there was a free flow of information. There were so many good blogs, and outlets like You Tube just published anything. Slowly, restrictions came in, and other forms of censure, such outspoken academics losing their jobs, became normalised. Now, the censorship and isolation is overwhelming, and it is going to get worse.

    • Replies: @R.C.
  48. With respect:

    Can truth ever fail?
    Without truth everything is nothing.
    Is truth not like water?
    Water slits everywhere.

    You have made these bastards so wet.
    You have got em by the throat.
    So, the John Jews Johnsons are dripping even here.
    The results are showing. Trump was one. Was.

    It will develop further.
    Violence is always problematic – in all ways.
    To fight violence with violence is what the devil wants.
    Consciousness, awareness, understanding, love for facts (truth),
    love for honest man always wins at the end of the day.
    And since man is soul, the end of the day is usually
    not reached in death of the body.

    The transmigration of soul is at least known to native peoples…

    The blasting of a few buildings and killing of three thousand people will also play out
    and if it takes centuries. E.g. “Washington D.C.” seems to have less power now over the states.
    Many states seem tired of the central government.
    Mind you. 9/11 is one of the lesser crimes of “the most dangerous superstition”, the believe
    in government, authority, the believe in State & Mercenaries with the supply of tax-monies and service to those violent crooks and standovers.

    Truth is a debt to be collected. (Here on offer for free, for instance).
    Truth is not a debt owed (to the mercenaries of JewSA, for instance).

    • Replies: @Badger Down
  49. Why the “9/11 Truth” Movement Failed

    Stop whining. It did not fail. We know that the US governement with Israel (mossad) did it. Neocon project.

    It turns out that the PNAC is turning into a PNCC.

    By the way the neocons are implementing a propaganda like the nazis could only dream about.

    The truth movement does not control the medias, the neocons do.

  50. I don’t consider the 9/11 Truth Movement a total failure. 9/11 was a skillfully executed Psy-Ops. It’s goal was psychological terror and trauma. Once a population is sufficiently terrified they cow down and do as they are told. They were instructed by their President “Let us Never Consider Outrageous Conspiracy Theories”.

    Once we all understand Israel and Zionism did 9/11 then the strategy should be clear. We cannot control the media, the courts or the federal reserve. We will never get a true investigation of 9/11 as long as Israel is loved by America.

    The strategy all along should have been to destroy the hold Israel has over America. EXPOSE THE HOLOCAUST. People don’t understand the Holocaust is itself a Psy-Ops being carried out on the American people. Our young are forced to read and be indoctrinated in middle school, high school, and college to the fraudulent Holocaust History. This serves to indoctrinate sympathy for the Jew into their minds. When they become adults…they still think of Anne Frank’s Diary and Schindler’s List and a tear wells up ….for the JEW.

    Ramp up the BDS Movement on Israel. Expose the Holocaust. Go to war against the Christian Zionists. Make it deplorable for any Congressman or woman to openly support Israel.

    Pass Term Limits for politicians. Pass Campaign reform laws.

    Expose Israel, strip the Jews of their Holocaust shield —then and only then can you have open investigations to 9/11.

    What is amazing to me is that the criminals that did this amount to a flea speck compared to the 150 Million or so heavily armed citizens. Evil can be defeated but it requires violence.

    Whatever is done, needs to get moving. Rumsfield is dead. Powel is dead. The days of exacting revenge will soon be over as many of these sociopaths are dying off.

    • Agree: Truth Vigilante
  51. Anonymous[112] • Disclaimer says:

    The “movement” didn’t fail. Most people have stopped believing the official story years ago and many have a fairly good understanding of who, how and why. Expecting full confessions or media/legal prosecutions from the Globohomo is just stupid. They’re still peddling the Russiagate narrative, ffs. Your criteria for judging propaganda success/failure states is flawed.

  52. This man went all the way from the USA to Vietnam to murder people. Real human beings. He did that TWICE (he says he “served”!). Now he wants to save that immeasurably awful country. I don’t. The sooner it dries up and disappears, the better. If all the USer militants would just go home yanqui, that would be good enough. Stop murdering Asians and chuntering on about keeping the Pacific Ocean free. Sick bastards.

    • Agree: schnellandine
  53. Herr K says:

    The 9/11/2001 movement should have split in two: one part concentrating on the towers, one part concentrating on the pentagon. Possibly even further: the twin towers are quite different from WTC7.

    Not only are the cases different, also the personalities of people interested in them are different.

    For example I personally don’t care about the pentagon, but WTC7 is the natural starting point for me, since it is the clearest truth. That shouldn’t stop say the author, with his different personally history, to concentrate on the pentagon.

    The twin towers, WTC7 and the pentagon all can be investigated in complete separation.

    Not missing unity, but missing division is the problem here.

    • Replies: @Abbybwood
  54. Brian USA says:

    The elite Jewish controlled media knows Israel did 911, but hides the evidence, it’s that simple.

    The elite Jewish controlled media pushes massive legal and illegal immigration, open borders, the absurd notion of systemic racism and the racist diversity and equity (against Whites) all to destroy White power with the combination of massive immigration of non-Whites and demonizing Whites as racists.

    Elite Jews want to keep their power and increase it, thus they take power away from Whites, who created America.

    If elite Jews and their race can’t be a majority, then they don’t want any race to be a majority.

  55. Thank you for your own dedicated work in this matter, Alan Sobrosky.

    But it seems premature to say that Truth about 9/11 has failed.
    Truth does not fail.
    Many millions are now aware that Israeli Jews, with connivance of US Jews and other “zionists”, committed this crime against Americans to fire up the slaughter of yet more innocents whom they saw as their enemy … hence Gulf wars etc.
    The Who and Why is more important than the How.

    9/11 Truth may well come out elsewhere than USA. Maybe Iran or China.
    Because USA is no longer truthful.
    In fact she is the leader in the Zionist Crime Cartel ref international murder, assassination, oil theft, drug production, threats, subversion. Etc.
    This is a pity for ordinary Americans that their country is openly a criminal, their politicians simply bribe-takers. But unless they unseat the parasite (not all are Jewish btw) their country will continue its present calamitous decline.
    Which is the outcome of gross and persistent Unrighteousness.

  56. Anonymous[833] • Disclaimer says:

    Not arguing for the government’s case whatsoever, but I find most interesting the author’s contention that none of the Arabs fingered by intelligence piloted ANY of those missing planes, and that two of the sites (in Pennsylvania and Arlington) were not struck by large passenger planes at all, but rather by missiles or something similar. So, we seem to have at least two large jetliners and perhaps a couple hundred passengers missing and unaccounted for, if we assume that two planes crashed and all their passengers were killed in NYC. Those two planes would require either competent suicidal pilots or the use of electronic autopilots to effect the observed and videotaped crashes into the WT towers. Or, perhaps those were not the same planes that took off from Boston and NYC at all, but rather empty replacement jets that originated elsewhere. Are there any visuals of the registration markings on the fuselages of those jets before they crashed?

    If the original planes and passengers were all spared, what happened to them? Where did they land? Were the passengers taken captive? executed? or teleported to another dimension? Some of them were “important” people, like the wife of the former solicitor general (Barbara Olson). Did they smoke her? Or was she given a new life like that conferred upon the Skripals by the MI5.

    Has the slightest trace of any of these people shown up anywhere since 911? I know, this sounds like the questions that pertain to a Twilight Zone episode, but just the fact that every trace of the people and their identities were supposedly totally vaporised at each of the three sites is equally eerie. Not even a single laminated driver’s license residing within the confines of someone’s 3-inch thick leather wallet remains for any of the 3 thousand souls reported killed. That seems unlikely. Jet fuel is basically what? Kerosene I think. Its effect not only allegedly totally incinerated all human remains and personal effects in the localised area of the crash better than any crematorium oven could do, but also totally vaporised any folks stuck down in the basement or on floors in between the basement and the crash sites.

    So do we have any real evidence that any of those people allegedly on the four original planes are all dead? Maybe I have received misinformation about this supposed inability to definitively ID any dead passengers. People have made similar comments about the supposed victims of the Sandy Hook shootings: there are casualty lists but no corresponding bodies (or survivors) they say. Have investigators tried to piece together complete biographies for all the alleged dead in either cases? At what point in the cycle of life were these lives allegedly invented? Just something that someone can do if you really want to be rigorous.

  57. Dear Alan Sabrosky,
    If the purpose of 9/11 Truth movement was to wake up America, it could only fail, for America is in a terminal coma.
    If the purpose of the 9/11 Truth movement was to gather enough evidence to prove the lie, then it didn’t fail. This evidence, and particularly the evidence gathered by Architects&Engineers for 9/11 Truth will never be destroyed, and sooner or later, it will be brought to an international court. In 50 years, maybe, or perhaps much sooner. I wrote last August:

    With the Taliban back in charge in Afghanistan, methinks we will hear pretty soon about 9/11, the fabricated pretext for their overthrow twenty years ago. They have never been given a chance to defend themselves. When the time will come for a public statement, we might get a glimpse of Chinese officials in the background.

  58. peterAUS says:

    Very good article.

    Applies to “The Going Direct Reset” too.

    As for

    …If you want to do better, put 9/11 on the back burner and save the country – 9/11 will still be there when the smoke clears if we win, and if we lose, it won’t matter…..

    That’s definitely an option.

    There is another:
    If you want to do better save yourself and people you know who are “on the same page”. Can be done.
    Ignore the rest.

  59. JohnnyRVF says:

    Ultimately, laersI is backing the wrong horse in the 21st century. During the 20th century they took over control of the Financial, Political and Media institutions of the U.S.A., degrading the morality, culture and education standards drastically, so leading the country into destrucction. It is doubtful whether they will prevail against China as their ethos is so alien to the monotheistic religion of the country that cannot be named. The Chinese are well aware of all the tricks, deceits, hubris and malevolence of the true rulers of the west that they know precisely what they will try before they try it. I’m looking forward to a new world order, if the old world order in it’s final days doesn’t start a nuclear holocaust. It will make a welcome change from the last 600 years of so called Monotheistic enlightenment.

    • Agree: Rev. Spooner
  60. Anon[151] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alan Sabrosky

    But nobody cares.

    That’s the real issue.

  61. dimples says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Perhaps she was a diversity hire.

  62. dimples says:
    @Alan Sabrosky

    Right, so the missile “drills” through the five rings almost reaching the courtyard. Hmm, let see, the missile hits the outer ring and its warhead explodes, leaving nothing left but confetti to drill through the rest of the rings leaving the trademark round holes. Or, in another version, the missile does not explode at the outer ring but its thin aluminium body stays intact while continuing through the next four rings leaving the round holes…….

    I’m sorry Mr Sabrosky, but this retired Army Colonel is either a cretin or is working for the bad guys. As for yourself, why not do some research on the subject?

    • Replies: @Rev. Spooner
    , @PeterAG
  63. @admin user

    In reference to the witnesses on I-95 who said they saw this at the time of the Pentagon impact:

    … it was a small white private jet without any windows, it swept in low and hit the building

    Gee, I wonder what type of aircraft had the capability of being able to do an 8000 ft descending and accelerating 270 degree corkscrew turn, pulling around 6G’s in the process, and come level with the Pentagon lawn at a speed of around 500 knots ?

    Of course, it would have to be a military fighter type of aircraft.
    But, to simultaneously have the appearance of a private jet, it would need to have an ‘elongated’ fuselage (unlike the shorter/stumpier profile of most other fighter jets).
    Perhaps looking something like this:

    Yes readers, that’s a Douglas A-3 Skywarrior in that photo on the deck of an aircraft carrier (similar to the numerous Skywarrior aircraft that Raytheon possessed at the time of 9/11).

    Interestingly, the USS George Washington was just offshore from New York City on the morning of 9/11 and one or more A-3 Skywarriors took off from its deck that morning according to some insiders.

    • Replies: @schnellandine
  64. It was not “Out Thought” by the army of liars and media sycophants perpetuating the bizarre coincidences passed off as “The Truth”. The obvious coincidences and blatant lies have been exposed for the world to see. Having a larger megaphone will never erase obvious shortcomings of the offical narrative.

    It was certainly “Out Bought” by the army of deep-pocket deep-state profiteers with an ever increasing mountain of lies designed to obfuscate the actual events.

    “Out Fought”? Really? When you are up against a cabal that buys “ink by the barrel” your cause can painted as lost even though the outnumbered truthers were able to expose the lies and corruption on a grand scale. Any victory for the cabal is and always will be a “pyrrhic victory”.

  65. Anonymous[661] • Disclaimer says:

    Best article I’ve read on this subject, it’s painfully honest and to the point.

    The Jewish media cartel is currently convincing the global population that with a snap of the fingers you can suddenly change your gender. Convincing people that ‘9/11 Truth’ is a conspiracy theory is merely child’s play for them.

  66. @Alan Sabrosky

    You posted this remark:

    … retired Army Colonel and USMA grad of ’75 [said] ‘No airplane hit the Pentagon’.

    Of course I assume he means ‘no wide-bodied commercial aircraft hit the Pentagon. (Because another type of aircraft did impact with the Pentagon – refer to my other comment in this thread accompanied with a photo of an A-3 Skywarrior).

    Of course, many if you will be wondering, if a much larger plane like the Boeing 757 that was alleged to have impacted (with accompanying far larger Kinetic Energy), couldn’t punch a hole in the C, D and E rings of the Pentagon that day, what hope in hell did a much smaller/lighter A-3 Skywarrior have of doing so ?

    Obviously, it didn’t.

    A fraction of a second before impact, the A-3 Skywarrior utilised its forward firing ordnance capability and launched a Bunker Buster missile (perhaps an AGM-65 Maverick as USMC Lt-Col (ret) Field McConnell has suggested).

    Once the facade of the western wall of the Pentagon was punctured, the Skywarrior flew into the cavity and disintegrated thereafter.

    White hats within the U.S Intel agencies (who obviously have not stated this publicly – for fear of their lives), later positively identified 2 or 3 pieces of wreckage belonging to an A-3 Skywarrior.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  67. Anon[357] • Disclaimer says:

    The first step is realizing our gov’t lies – systemically. Tonkin Gulf, incubator babies, Sudanese aspirin factory, germ warfare tests over SF, the list of lies the gov’t has told is long. first Convince someone of those minor lies and 9/11 Truth follows.

  68. Ross23 says:

    It failed because the elite gatekeepers didn’t want it to succeed.

    It’s as simple as that

    For a movement to succeed it needs to be allowed through by political/ MSM gatekeepers

    There’s lots of movements and groups out there that never get a mention because their views go against the interests of the elite so we hardly ever hear about them.

    Trump was an exception because he could bi pass them through his money, but look how they treated him LOL

    People or groups don’t change the world they get allowed to change the world and get all the credit.

    I thought that would be obvious by now

  69. R.C. says:
    @TitusAlone

    Yup! You damn sure nailed it.
    Folks who weren’t doing online research until the 2010s really have no idea how much easier it was to find information. The about the sorry, evil bastards have deleted and hidden is mind blowing.
    Hang tough.
    R.C.

  70. R.C. says:
    @Anon

    Yeah, it’s tough for many folks to accept. However, if you’re gonna shoot down a plane – everyone dies a horrific death. If you land it somewhere secret at some military base owned by the CIA et al., and take people into rooms because of the events of the day, and sneak up behind them with a .22 silenced pistol and put them down with a few caps to the cerebellum, you rationalize to yourself: ‘I’m saving them from dying a horrific, fiery death.’
    That’s how it’s done. It’s hard to handle, but that doesn’t make it less true. Read Doug Valentine’s books on the Phoenix program. If anything, it’s worse than that now.
    Of course, importing IsRaHellis for the wet work was kinda obligatory – not killing countrymen and all that.
    Reality doesn’t give a damn about mere perceptions and guesses – it only deals in truth.
    R.C.

  71. So is it true that instead of Russia Russia Russia who put Trump into the Presidency it was the world controlling Jews who put him there?

    Just asking for a friend.

  72. @Truth Vigilante

    pulling around 6G’s in the process, and come level with the Pentagon lawn at a speed of around 500 knots

    Source?

  73. profnasty says:
    @Anon

    Whom should we believe?
    You? Or our own lying eyes.

  74. @mulga mumblebrain

    Things must have seemed just as hopeless in Wiemar Germany.

    • Replies: @Dave Bowman
  75. Considering the extent that the “bankers” went to to obfuscate the origins of WW1 which led to WW2 to finish their job, and the fact that the West is still in the dark about that, it is no surprise that the Ministry of Truth will bury the 9ll event as a footnote in history. Herbert Hoover vacuumed up almost all documents from European governments desperate to feed their populations who were starving from the effects of WW1 in the 1920s. This documentation was managed by special scholars at Stanford University who then had the history books and encyclopedias published or authorized by Oxford University. Who knows how far back in history this obfuscation has occurred. They only want us to see the shadows in Plato’s cave.

    • Agree: Arthur MacBride
    • Thanks: rufus clyde
    • Replies: @Rev. Spooner
  76. @follyofwar

    Trump was a rabble rouser not a true truth teller.

    I had my hopes in him dashed as well.

  77. Because it has failed to bring needed prosecutions in the (corrupt/criminal) USA, some Americans think it has failed. Understandable, if parochial.

    Very many millions globally know that 9/11 was a zionist trigger to kill millions for Greater Israel. As they are presently doing in Lebanon, Syria.
    Aided by USUK. It is blatantly obvious.
    For certain all governments globally know it.

    USA is now (thankfully) failing.
    That process needs to continue and accelerate.
    US citizens need their country quit of the sickening evil that has been and is now running it. First target has to be the media.

  78. Well yes, but the despairing image here painted may not sufficiently take into account the sheer strangeness of what happened. What the hell did impact into the Second Tower on that morning? After twenty years frankly none of us have much of a clue as to what brought the Towers down. Several hundred thousand tons of WTC disintegrate into fine powdery dust. Plus, no passenger plane wreckage existed at any of the four alleged crash sites. It was all too much.
    All we really managed to do – and did fairly well, on no funding and with only media scorn – was to show that the official version of events could not be correct.
    People like the highly-esteemed Mr Sabrosky, like Christopher Bollyn, and also M. Guyenot writing on this unz.com website, have called for a more immediate focus upon WHO did it, with less detail upon how it was done. Agreed!
    So I’d recommend Icke’s recent 900 page opus on the subject, where he names the perps! ‘The Ultra-Zionist Death Cult.’ Unlike my relatively small opus (‘Who Did 9/11? A View from Across the Pond’) it has not been banned by Amazon.

  79. S says:

    Hollywood and country music (CMT has the same type of owners as Hollywood and the networks) combined to produce movies and music reinforcing the official narrative…(I would love to meet with whoever devised their plan, and I do not mean the 1990s PNAC document on “A New American Century” – it was masterful.)

    Planning and ‘narrative’ for 911 potentially goes as far back as to just prior to the the time of the Kennedy assassination. I don’t preclude the possibility of a certain occult element in this.

    Many know of the Lone Gunman TV series pilot and the movie Fight Club, both of which appear to predict 911. Far fewer are aware of the very US establishment orientated Route 66 TV series episode filmed in October, 1963, entitled ‘I’m Here to Kill a King’, and now known as the ‘lost episode’ for obvious reasons. [It had been originally scheduled to be broadcast Nov 29, ’63, but was dropped from the line-up that day, and shown months later.]

    Not only does the episode accurately predict many details of the Kennedy assassination, but it simultaneously also has a very plain sub-theme of Arabs, New York, and ‘ground zero’.

    You-tube has a pristine copy of the episode if a person wishes to see it for themselves.

    The link below describes people seeing the episode for the first time in 1988 being ‘chilled and stunned’ by its contents.

    http://niagarafallsreporter.com/Stories/2013/Sep3/lostepisode.html

  80. Miro23 says:
    @Leif Sachs

    In order to establish whether the 9-11 Truth movement failed, you’d have to ascertain what constitutes success. What were we expecting to achieve, and were we realistic?

    My definition of success would be the arrest of everyone in any way involved with 9/11 including the politicians, administration officials, CIA and FBI operatives and media collaborators, seriously questioning them, offer plea bargains and put them on trial for conspiracy, treason and murder with the death penalty.

    Then cross check their stories and put those willing to confess on prime time TV with a detailed step by step account of events. That should fix the problem ( note that the US’ corrupt democracy can’t make this happen).

  81. Notsofast says:
    @TitusAlone

    exactly what happened to the japanese and german people after WW2 as well.

  82. @Alan Sabrosky

    Alan, every reason you mention as to why the 9/11 Truth movement failed, is true of course.

    But, no matter how well orchestrated it was, the Truthers were always going to be up against.

    Yes of course, the cabal that perpetrated it had money to finance the cover up and infiltrate the various Truth movements with competing theories (just as they had done and continue doing in the case of the JFK assassination), but what many people don’t realise is the OBSCENE extent of the resources at their disposal.

    You yourself Alan have stated that Israel’s Mossad did 9/11 – and you’ll get no disagreements from me there.
    But let’s understand that the Apartheid Israeli State is a CONSTRUCT and DEPENDENT CHILD of the actual sponsors of this event.
    ie: none other than the Zionist Usury Banking Cartel (aka the Zio cabal).

    Israel [and its Mossad] makes no move of substance, tables no independent military or Foreign Policy initiative, WITHOUT THE EXPRESS APPROVAL of the Zio cabal puppeteers.

    I’ll go even further than that.

    To the extent that the Apartheid Israeli State (and its forebears) have initiated ANYTHING of significance on the world stage (blowing up the King David Hotel, JFK hit, 1967 Six day war, USS Liberty and 9/11 False Flags etc), since its founding in 1948, they have merely been FOLLOWING A SCRIPT written by their Zio controllers in the City of London.

    Another very important factor in why the 9/11 Truth movement has failed to date is revealed by the actions of the automatons during the Covid psyop.

    The fact of the matter is, No matter how unified the Truthers were, No matter if the squabbling within its ranks were reduced to nil, No matter what approaches were made to active duty military personnel (the cabal have ensured that MOST of those in key positions are beholden to them – No independent thinkers and true patriots are ever promoted to the highest ranks), at the end of the day, the insouciant American public (and much of the citizenry of the western world), WERE NOT LISTENING to what the Truthers had to say.

    I tell you this from personal experience.

    [MORE]

    Just like it’s impossible to tell the facts of the Covid psyop to the typical mask muzzling, social distancing, double-jabber, at the end of the day THESE PEOPLE MORE OR LESS TRUST THEIR WISE GOVERNMENT OVERLORDS and will dismiss alternative theories that are not reassuring.

    In other words, were they to accept the truth behind 9/11 and the JFK coup d’etat for example,, there would be a SENSORY OVERLOAD and they’d possibly have a nervous breakdown.

    Sure, you’ll get the odd one to admit that the Gulf of Tonkin incident and WMD’s in Iraq were faked as a pretext to start a war but they’ll say that was in the past and those corrupt administrations are lone gone.
    They’d say that we now live in a more enlightened, more civilised era.
    Now we have ‘honest Joe Biden’ in the WH and he wouldn’t stoop to those depths, they’d say.

    OR they’ll say: ‘ Sure, most politicians are more or less corrupt but that guy with the white lab coat and the title ‘Prof’ before his name, well he’s not a politician and he says Covid is killing millions.

    The problem is that the stupid rubes believe what the Health Bureaucrats are telling them and ‘know’ it’s the irrefutable science.
    And whilst its possible that the politicians and Health bureaucracy of one or two countries could be bought by some ‘cabal’, the fact that every western country and quite a few significant others among the rest are all gripped in lockstep by COVID PARANOIA, that surely proves that Covid is real and an existential threat to planet Earth.

    What the dumbed-down masses cannot grasp is that there exists such a cabal (wherewithal that is MULTIPLES of U.S GDP), that does indeed own EVERY western politician and Health bureaucrat of substance – and has the capacity to intimidate or murder those that don’t follow the script (Case in Point: Tanzanian Presdent Magafuli).
    Meanwhile, said dumb rubes don’t have the common sense to realise that the corrupt Health Bureaucrats have been appointed by the corrupt politicians because they’re ‘yes-men’ (and women).

    Bottom Line: To unravel 9/11, the murders of JFK, RFK, JFK Jr, James Forrestal, MLK Jr, Malcolm X and countless other False Flags and egregious crimes over the years, we must first:

    1) Severely crimp the future financial capacity of the Zio cabal by removing their ownership/control over the U.S Federal Reserve, the Bank of England, the ECB and other western central banks.
    (Thus deprived of the printing press, where they can literally create trillions with a key stroke and dole it out amongst their Zionist cronies, their ability to cause further mischief will be severely hampered).
    2) Conduct an investigation into how they accumulated their existing ill-gotten gains, which will reveal their past monumental chicanery – entailing confiscation of all their assets.
    3) Work on enlightening the masses that western politicians are NOT WORKING FOR YOU, that they CONSTANTLY LIE TO YOU and have no concern for your welfare
    Once the public grasps that, it will be easier to demonstrate that these politicians are all minions of the Vampire Squid global cabal that is behind all the malfeasance, and are actively working to enrich said cabal and give it greater control over your life.

    Fortunately, in one sense, it appears the Zio cabal have bitten off more than they can chew with the implementation of the Covid psyop.
    The death and disability that’s already occurred as a result of the clot shots (with more to follow in the years to come as the carcinogens and toxins in the vaxxes result in the early demise of a great many near and dear to us), people of the world may finally WAKE UP to the plans of the cabal.

    It’ll come at a high price but that may well be the catalyst that finally awakens the servile citizenry.

  83. @Laurent Guyénot

    ‘When the time will come for a public statement, we might get a glimpse of Chinese officials in the background.’

    The Chinese are utterly useless at information warfare, and can only use the blunt defensive instrument of censorship because their offensive capabilities are so weak. Watching their English language news network, CGTN, is like watching the BBC, and isn’t a patch on RT. Don’t expect much from them.

  84. @Truth Vigilante

    Thanks a lot, Truth Vigilante! Your comment is definitely big news to me, and perhaps Alan Sabrosky.

  85. @Mike Fridelle

    Bush was right to say “don’t vilify Muslims” for this?

  86. @TKK

    The movement had to make people accept the unthinkable. A Sisyphean task- probably impossible.

    The masses are conditioned to believe it only when it’s told to them on television. The internet has helped to break that spell, but unfortunately the string pullers are quickly moving to turn the flank of that development too, as evidenced by the movement to limit free speech to freedom to agree and support their narrative. European style hate speech limits on internet information will be soon to follow, which will deprive us of even Dr Sabrosky’s laments over How the West Was Lost. A new Dark Age is at the doorstep

    • Agree: TKK
  87. anonymous[420] • Disclaimer says:
    @Leif Sachs

    I don’t recall anyone in the movement more than whimsically expressing the belief or hope that confessions would be forthcoming. The vast circumstantial evidence, however, provides ample proof to convict Israel and its US cohorts for committing 9/11. Moreover, the media’s elaborate efforts of concealment over 20 years provide powerful evidence of their guilt for capital treason as well. Confessions about 9/11 and other false flags are death warrants for the family for generations, à la the Kennedy family.

    There’s also the small matter, according to estimates from the Israeli press, of there probably being more Dominick Suter-type armed Israeli nationals residing in the US than there are FBI and other federal law enforcement agents combined. As far as official anything goes, the AG’s office, Secretary of the Treasury, and Chair of the Fed, for starters, are all parasitic Jewish fiefdoms. As I recall, Wayne Madsen wrote an exposé of the Treasury’s OFAC which, he argued, engages in black ops to protect International Jewry’s control of the blood diamond trade, and so openly does it do so that the language one hears in its offices is Hebrew and the flags and decor Israeli.

    But for maybe five members, and according to Cynthia McKinney, the second-rate public theater called the US congress is likewise a fiefdom of International Jewry and about as likely to turn on its owner as the Knesset. During the run up to the last election, Forbes ran a short series on the sixty or so most conspicuous billionaires whose money buys the US government, but the series, from what I can tell, was disappeared once people started pointing out that all but a small handful of those billionaires were Israel-first activists.

    What these overlords and their minions in DC cannot prevent, however, is public awareness that the official narrative about 9/11 is as false as that about JFK and RFK and that Israel and American Jewry were behind them all. This leads directly to the presumption that the same perps are responsible for the scamdemic and not China, or at least not China acting on its own without permission and direction from Israel.

  88. anon[381] • Disclaimer says:

    We have to have one of the television networks to spread truth, have investigative journalists walk through the evidence, and opinion makers assemble the conclusions truthfully and rationally. We dont have any of the big 3, Fox, CNN, or MSNBC, or PBS. I think many of the news directors and producers are CIA personally, and are directed from the same source.

  89. The education system is based on repetition capability not critical thought. Our whole society tends to operate on being given between two choices. Everything is now either A or B. No wiggle room for critical thought and ultimately other options. The feds then use trained crackpots to taint either choice A or B, whichever one diminishes the legitimate questions. Gaslighting completed. Assume most will never leave the narrative reservation, but never give up the questions. They have an effect. It is why you see “fact” checkers and “sensitive material” warnings prior to the ultimate cancellation.

  90. @Kevin Barrett

    Nobody talks about Dr. Judy Wood. Her Qui Tam suit was a high point in the resistance.

  91. anonymous[420] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Speaking of “way past fruitcake,” your story is as unbelievable as those from the so-called Holocaust, such as squirrels smuggling apples to a little girl in one of the camps, incidentally enabling her to survive and collect reparations.

    Hey, I’ll bet you also know people whose little five-year-old girl is best friends with the daughter of classmates of Barry Soetoro when he was at Columbia University.

  92. Zorost says:

    “I would love to meet with whoever devised their plan”

    You can’t, Saul Alinsky is dead.

    ==

    “But they – and I include myself here – were never able to convey that message in a politically significant way to enough of the American public to matter.”

    Your only fault is not realizing that even if you’d reached 100% it would not be enough. Something like 70-80% of Americans do believe in some variant of 9/11 Truth. But so what? Those responsible for 9/11 would also be responsible for investigating and prosecuting those responsible for 9/11, so obviously there was no action-oriented win condition. And even if the public went nuts and started rioting in the streets for justice, a few patsies I’m sure they had on standby would have been trotted out and given the Lee Harvey Oswald treatment.

    The only solution to rampant corruption and tyranny is to organize at the local and state level so that in the future we have the means to fend off federal overreach by any means necessary.

    • Agree: Peripatetic Itch
  93. Maddaugh says:

    I would say 9/11 Truth is a partial failure.

    1/3 of the population know the official narrative is absolute bullshit
    1/3 believe what ever manure is shovelled their way
    1/3 dont really care one way or the other

    The first group dont believe anything the Government tells them recognising that any politician with moving lips is a practised, chronic and habitual liar.

    The other 2/3 believe whatever they are told and they are the ones the bullshit cannon is always aimed at. They are the ones who make the difference in accepting and swallowing whatever garbage they are fed. THAT, is the real failure right there. Not the liars but the dumb, naive and easily duped.

    • Thanks: CelestiaQuesta
  94. The Muslims did 9/11

    Immediately after 9/11 all Muslims should have been expelled from America….along with all Israeli Nationals…..

    But at the rock bottom level….the stupidity of Native White Working Class Christian Americans is the cause of 9/11….decades of sitting in NFL NEGRO BALL Stadiums…as the Muslims were plotting mass murder on US soil under the noses of dumb White Folks…

    But 9/11 is small potato’s compared to this:‘Muslims coming to America….LEGALLY…obeying the Constitution and paying their taxes….AND VOTING THE NATIVE WHITE WORKING CLASS into a violently persecuted White Racial minority within the borders of America….LEGALLY…

    Into 2021…Muslim “American” Immigration Lawyers taunt Native White Christian Americans…on Twitter and Facebook…about Whitey’s demographic demise.

    The Ohio State Buckeye Shoehorn was packed to the gills with White Folks of German Ancestry the weekend past………as the Somalian Muslim Population of C0lumbus has grown to 200 thousand…

    White Stupidity caused 9/11….And the Muslims took advantage of it…..No more complicated than this….

    • Thanks: CelestiaQuesta
  95. No the methodology of the vanguard of the 9/11 truth movement around former LaRouche associate Webster G. Tarpley can make valid claims, with the issuance of the Kennebunkport Warning ,to have stopped the NeoCons’s flight forward to war against Iran, as that document correctly predicated action against a war drive by the ‘Cheney faction’ that was stopped by patriots in the U.S. Air Force who prevented the hijacking of a nuclear armed B-52.

    https://archive.org/details/TheKennebunkportWarningAndTheRogueB52s-WasASecond9-11WarAvoided

    It was Tarpley’s book “9/11 Synthetic Terror: Made in the USA” which introduced with historical context the notion of the “False Flag” which is now nearly a mainstream understanding of how these operations are done, and is a tool by which the deep state terrorist can be stopped.

    The fight relative to 9/11 is not to be fossilized as some historic happening that is done with, and thus the operation needs to be understand in relationship to a greater geopolitical picture to which it was the LaRouche movement’s work in identifying in various means the workings of the financial oligarchy, centered around the City of London/Wall Street axis of the British Empire intent upon
    destroying the nation state, by fomenting perpetual war. Thus in the 1990’s, particularly as regards so called “islamic terrorism” the LaRouche movement petitioned Congress to put Great Britain on the list of countries that sponsor terrorism, which was part of a much greater flank to address the crisis realized by the fact that the “New Silk Road” and the “BRICS” were manifestations of strategies that LaRouche and company had conceived as means of stopping the collapse.

    Returning to the method of the Kennebunkport Warning, part of the freakout by leaders of the “antiwar” movement against that document, was because it did what Bernie Sanders was afraid of doing, call the warmongers, including Hillary Clinton, what they are, warmongers, war criminals, as ironically Trump would do and against the neocons, Bush then Clinton, and win the Presidency.

    Yes there was a failure of the 9/11 truthers, Alex Jones and Tarpley, relative to not pushing Trump’s antiwar stance into the context of confronting the crime of 9/11 as a false flag, but getting themselves, Jones and Tarpley, both getting sucked into partisan positions relative to politics, not the truth.

    Note that 9/11 worked as it was scripted, just like the current pandemic and in the case of Trump, he fell into being trapped by his own characterature to which he acted the “bigot” by becoming the “bigot” by not being able to not act outside the way he failed relative to Charlottesville and George Floyd….

    And further because Trump would not defend Putin and Russia with a Summit to join the One Belt One Road, as the ultimate counter to the Russiagate lies pushed by the British, and that he allowed the stupid cruise missile stunt against Syria to mar his meeting with President Xi and China, where again he should have made a deal to join the New Silk Road as the manifestation of the policies of President McKinley whom the British Deep State through its Anarchist operatives around Emma Goldman had assassinated.

    Right now the front line relative to 9/11 truth is the mass strike potential against the panopticon police state by working to reject Covid pandemic as a false flag used to introduce the tax WMD’s against the population.

    being “the bigot” Charlottesville trap he fell into and later expanded when the trip wire was crossed with the George Floyd

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
  96. TKK says:
    @R.C.

    And don’t forget the cringe inducing propaganda movie and social pep rally:

    Let’s Roll.

    How tragic.

  97. @schnellandine

    The approach speed of the aircraft that did impact with the Pentagon is well documented – even the official U.S government narrative concedes that.

    As for the estimated 6G’s said aircraft was pulling, there are videos and written transcripts of pilots (civilians and military) saying that, when factoring the radius of turn and its speed at the time, it would have been pulling 6G’s.
    Get up off your arse and do the legwork yourself to track that down on the internet.

    Meanwhile, the only variables you’ll need to do the calculation yourself (which can all be obtained from official sources), is the velocity of the plane (v) and the turn radius (r) and enter it into this simple equation:

    a (centripetal acceleration)= square of velocity/radius.

    Gravity (ie: 1 G) = 9.8 metres per second squared. Therefore, if your calculations yield around 60 metres per second squared, that’s around 6 G.

    Meanwhile, watch what the Air Traffic Controller ((Danielle O’Brien) has to say – she was monitoring the ‘fast moving’ aircraft as it approached the Pentagon (focus on the 20 secs or so beginning at 6:00):

    She says: ‘In the room, there was almost a sense of relief – THIS MUST BE A FIGHTER’.

    ie: a Fighter aircraft. Because ONLY a fighter aircraft could make those small radius turns at that speed.

    A wide bodied commercial aircraft could not make such turns and if it attempted them (even of piloted by the ace of Top Guns), it would exceed its recommended G limits and disintegrate in the process.

  98. “How much truth does a spirit endure, how much truth does it dare?” ― Friedrich Nietzsche

  99. saggy says: • Website

    So where did it all go wrong, given the mountain of evidence and analyses on the side of the “Truthers”

    Good grief, you failed because you are idiots who cannot answer even simple questions, I’ll give one example, there are an infinite number: if no plane hit the Pentagon, what happened to the passengers? How to explain the grieving families? 9/11 truthers are a sick joke.

  100. Beyond the thermite explanation in 9/11 Truther Gospel……well, it is obviously in the realm of pure 9/11 truther nuttery…

    The thermite explanation suffers from the problem of scientific dishonesty…for the scientist behind the thermite explanation publishes in what are known as scientific vanity journals….which are on the lowest rung of scientific quality due to their lack of serious peer review…..Moreover, if you go to the website author of the thermite explanation well, he just quotes his own research that is published in these scientific vanity journals….

    The 9/11 Truthers are traitors who emboldened the Muslim “‘American” Democratic Party Voting Bloc…

    9/11 Truthers=TREASON IS THE REASON…

    9/11 was completely avoidable….and here is how:0 Muslims in America…0 Israelis in America….PRO-WHITE NATIONAL ORIGINS ALL THE WAY!!!!

  101. @schnellandine

    Referencing your previous query about the alleged 6G’s of the aircraft that approached the Pentagon on 9/11, I’ll do the calculations for you Schnell.

    These are approximations (accurate to within a few percent nevertheless).

    As I said before, the formula for Centripetal Acceleration (a) = square of velocity/radius.

    ie: a= v x v/r.

    In the Danielle O’Brien video I posted above (she’s the Air Traffic Controller on 9/11) , she says this plane was travelling at 400 knots.

    400 knots = 740 km/h = 206 metres/second (figures rounded to whole numbers for convenience).

    From recollection, the turn radius of the aircraft that did the 270 degrees corkscrew 800 feet descending dive was around 700 metres during its tightest turn.

    Therefore, a = 206 x 206/700,

    which gives me a Centripetal acceleration of 60.6 metres per second squared. (ie: just over 6G’s).

    Now bear in mind the reported speed of the aircraft approaching the Pentagon was stated by O’Brien to be 400 knots, this represented its speed in level flight BEFORE it conducted it’s descending corkscrew turn.

    We do know that it accelerated during this manoeuvre and ultimately topped out at around 500 knots just before impacting with the Pentagon.

    So, it’s likely that during this turn, it may have been travelling at around 450 knots or more.

    For a given turn radius that would’ve entailed an even greater G load.

    However, travelling at 450 knots during the turn, you could still achieve the same 6G’s if your radius of turn was broadened to say 900 metres.

    Suffice to say, it was somewhere in the range of those numbers.

  102. anon[216] • Disclaimer says:

    Yes, JWalters, good idea in 45, let’s look at the historical evidence. As it shows, Rothschilds made and own the Rockefellers.

    If CIA works for Rothschild, Why then did DCI Bush’s Dad knock Nelson out of the ’64 race with a preemptive strike on his Happy-bonking? Why did Jay Rockefeller say, “They control it. All of it. All of it. All the time.”

    https://www.salon.com/2012/04/13/making_politicians_look_bad_a_fireable_offense/

    How many paramilitary divisions do the Rothschilds have? How many torture gulags? How many drones?

    CIA can kill them like swatting flies.

  103. TPTB have the luxury of time bought using the labor of those enslaved to the present world order. They only need lie long enough in order to grind you down and run out the clock until the next “event”. So it was with 9-11 and so it is even with today’s plandemic. They even co-opt any “movement” that appears to question the Soma being shoved down your throat. Mustn’t let any “ideas” percolate in those nebulous noggins. That would be misinformation or even, horrors, a violation of community standards. Yup!

  104. gottlieb says:

    Agree with Sabrosky’s POV and conclusions as to ‘failure’ of 911 Truth. What ‘truth’ movement has ever succeeded? Biden just withheld release of further JFK assassination documents going on 60 years after the event. The enemy is a Borg.

    Though I agree with the sentiment of others that the battle to fight in the same vein as 911 Truth is Pandemic 2020 Truth. As many holes to poke in official narrative, and is an ONGOING operation.

    • Replies: @Mevashir
  105. Phlyer says:

    All the 911 conspiracy theories fall apart on one basic fact. The common denominator of the vast majority of Americans is that they are bragards, that is very boastful and talkative, blowhards, boasters, braggers. As a rule they can’t keep their mouth shut, no matter what the consequences.
    One only has to read the conspiracy theories n this comments section to see bragards in action, each wanting to show how smart they think they are, that they alone have “solved” the puzzle.
    Its the national trait. If there was a conspiracy of epic proportions it would all well and truly laid out with conclusive evidence by now. ‘Tis the nature of the beast that is the US.
    The truth is that US TV, as well as movies and entertainment in general, is the petri dish in which you breed your idiots and unfortunately the idiots in the US are now well and truly in the majority.
    I weep for what the US, a country I know and love, has become in the last decade or two . The US is no longer the bastion of hope and freedom it a a mere shadow of its former self and rotting from the inside out.

    • Troll: Peripatetic Itch
  106. Come on Alan!! There were lots of witnesses who saw a plane headed for the Pentagon. Were they all planted? Check this one out: Captain Richard Hunt, in 43217 observed the plane approaching, along with two of his office mates.
    https://mega.nz/file/BI5yVT6B#_Knf2WZCorqjDDJAaBqqAVEgKO4POXYHN814JqrcfTE

    There were others like fire fighter Alan Wallace, ATC Sean Boger, Officers William Lagasse and Chad Brooks.

    The story is not final. Those mentioned bring out some serious contradictions, but they all saw a plane.

    Let’s figure this out.

    • Replies: @TheTrumanShow
  107. anonymous[251] • Disclaimer says:

    “So Why Did We Fail?”

    I respond:

    One big reason is that easy, ugly, ignorant, hateful Muslim migrants have been doing terrible things all over the remaining White Western world – things like Somalian Muslim migrants butchering some English Conservative MP in a church. Things like sexual grooming poor English Girls in Rotherham England, things like many, so many suicide mass murder bombings in Paris, Manchester England – things like making suburbs of Malmo Sweden no go zones.

    Donald Trump got elected President of the United States in 2016 for just speaking sensible things about stopping reversing the worst forms of mass migration – what can be worst than 9th century Islamists like Muhammed Ata.

    Sorry, these 9-11-01 “Truthers” just come off as White hating, American bashing idiots that insist no Muslims, no 3rd world person of color ever did anything bad if they admit that some Arab/Turk/Pakistani did do something bad like mass murder our people, they insist we are somehow to blame for it for sins of you know…

    [MORE]

    Colonialism
    Confederate stuff
    Christopher Columbus
    Climate Change

    No – that’s not going to work on regular Red State White Americans. And your eternal enemy the Je*s understand this so they just spun 9-11-01 as justification for yet another invasion of Iraq – that Axis of Evil speech scripted by Je* Neo Con Man David Frum was the worst. Why didn’t Truthers concentrate on refuting the Axis of Evil Nonsense?

    Instead the usual systems can one of their C&W Pop/Rock music prostitutes like Toby Keith or Ted Nugent to crank out some war propaganda to support Zionist Neo Conservatives wars:

    “Let’s go get em like we got Hitler”.

    9-11-01 Truthers just come off as weird.

    BUILD THE WALL – that’s easy to understand.

    • Replies: @Chris Moore
  108. anonymous[420] • Disclaimer says:
    @saggy

    In person, tough-talking saggy would disappear up his own asshole with that signature shit-eating grin on his face.

    • Replies: @TKK
  109. @Curmudgeon

    She exited through a window back of the fire station. This BS about walking through devastation and fire has got to stop.

  110. Andreas says:
    @saggy

    if no plane hit the Pentagon, what happened to the passengers? How to explain the grieving families?

    That is a legitimate question. American Airlines Flight 77 took off from Dulles loaded with passengers. That plane along with all its passengers disappeared somewhere. If not the Pentagon, then where?

    While to a non-pilot it still seems like a remarkable feat of flying for someone with the level of training that Hani Hanjour allegedly had to fly a commercial aircraft into the side of the Pentagon, it is still more plausible than a missile or a military aircraft on a suicide mission. Unless, of course, the disappearance of flight 77 can be conclusively accounted for in some other way.

    • Replies: @Zorton the Cruel
  111. Anonymous[291] • Disclaimer says:

    Well, what was the goal and did it ever have any chance of success against such powerful opposition? Getting the conspirators to admit it? Putting them in jail?

    Consider the JFK assassination. Did it result in the persecution of the proper culprits? No. But it did seep into the mass consciousness as one of the major conspiracies of our age.

    The real problem is that the majority of the public want to trust our government. It is simply impossible for them to believe our own government would be complicit in killing its own people. It doesn’t fit their version of reality.

    However, I think the 9/11 Truth movement had remarkable success in questioning the official narrative and getting people to wake up. I credit this to the advent of widespread internet availability and usage, which allowed people to get together and share ideas. This had never happened in human history before on the same scale.

    I would also like to recognize the achievements of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth for bringing together an organized group of experts to challenge the official narrative.

    The broader fight against those who wish to control and manipulate and profit off of us is not over by any means.

    *** The current battle has shifted to opposing mandatory vaccination ***

    • Agree: CelestiaQuesta
    • Replies: @Mevashir
  112. Mulegino1 says:
    @Anonymous

    Showing the general American public evidence about what actually took place on 9/11 is a waste of time. As professor Coll has proven, the general public in the West are only able to comprehend fatuous tripe when it’s presented to them in a cartoonish and infantile fashion.

    It is a waste of time with most Americans, since they have been cognitively anchored to the ludicrous official narrative by the mendacious mainstream media and the official pronouncements of our “leaders.”

    Like the Shoah Business, 9/11 passed directly into the status of a pseudo-religion, without any serious investigation or objective appraisal of facts. It now serves as a kind of American mini-Holocaust- like the big H, it is “commemorated” and ritualized, protected from empirical scrutiny (profanation) by sacrosanct layers of protection, such as “the memory of the victims” or the sloganeering, “Let’s roll!” or “They hate us for our freedoms.”

    Of course, since the big H was supposedly directed at God’s chosen, and as such was an attempt on the life of the Divinity Himself (how duplicitous and ironic, a truly Satanic twisting of history) 9/11 can only ever be an American mini-Holocaust; Americans thus get an honorary status as kosher hewers of wood and carriers of water for the tribe by participation or basking in the reflected glow of Jewry’s sacred victim status. Chris Matthews’ famous “We’re all Israelis now” should really have been “We’re all about to become Palestinians now.”

    • Agree: Rev. Spooner
  113. Anonymous[291] • Disclaimer says:
    @admin user

    It is clear from the evidence – especially the security footage depicting the low, flat trajectory – that it was a cruise missile that was painted to resemble an airliner.

    I haven’t seen any attempts to chase this down: Where was it fired from? A submarine?

    • Replies: @Jeffrey A Freeman
  114. The 9-11 “Truth” movement failed, and will continue to fail, as long as it embraces the controlled demolition aspect of the theory. If you wanted to take down the towers, it would be a million fold easier to hire a small group of extremists to fly planes into the buildings than it would be to control a vast conspiracy involving tens of thousands of people. It’s an idiotic theory that immediately robs you of credibility. The controlled demolition theory also makes it easier to discredit those who propose the more reasonable theory that the terrorist group was controlled by “friendly” forces. But then again that might be its entire purpose.

    George Dubya – world’s most brilliant criminal mastermind.
    George Dubya – dim-witted dolt.
    Do you find yourself simultaneously believing both? Time to re-examine your beliefs.

    • Replies: @Brad Anbro
  115. As far as being out thought, out fought…… Someone should do an Exposé On Turning Point USA and such groups. I do not like having Christians mislead by such groups and people like Charlie Kirk. Look at the original backers of Turning Point USA. Conservative Christian values are what we need, but we do not need to have them twisted to support wars in the middle east and to get FAKE supposedly conservative Christians elected to offices. Char-lie Kirk if honest would tell people who really did 9/11. Remember they lie, you can say you are a “Christian” and be totally Illuminati.

    The Democrats are most totally evil and illuminati also, so everyone is forced to vote for the seemingly less evil candidate…. What is the Hegelian Dialectic?

    Movie to watch The Second Civil War

  116. @Nick Kollerstrom

    Yes Nick, the cabal does have a propensity to ban your books.

    After all, what you’ve revealed in your books on the Holohoax and 7/7 among other things, is why they view you as a very naughty boy indeed.

    Too much truth gives the Zio cabal indigestion.

  117. Mevashir says:

    This is a devastatingly well written well thought out and brilliantly articulated article. Thank you.

    I devoted most of my truther efforts in the churches that I attended. The church provided a major platform of support for the WOT narrative. Virtually every church had a bulletin board of children of members serving in the military, daily or weekly prayer chains on their behalf, frequent sermons demonizing Islam, etc. I felt certain that informing American evangelicals about 9/11 truth would easily undermine popular support for WOT, but the pastors are completely in collusion with the deep state Zionist occupied government.

    However I disagree with you that our efforts can be redirected in a more meaningful and effective way. America is lost to judeo-imperial forces. I think the approach of this commenter is the only feasible and reasonable approach for people of good will:
    https://www.unz.com/estriker/exclusive-americas-most-important-right-wing-conference-of-the-year-is-an-israeli-influence-operation/#comment-4971498

  118. @Truth Vigilante

    Look at the radar. The speed was not that high during the loop. ATC Creedon applied a tag to the primary radar and that permitted a view of the speed, nothing else. At the six o’clock position the speed was 270 KTS.

    Stop using the wrong numbers and you’ll get to the truth faster.

  119. Mevashir says:
    @Anonymous

    However, I think the 9/11 Truth movement had remarkable success in questioning the official narrative and getting people to wake up. I credit this to the advent of widespread internet availability and usage, which allowed people to get together and share ideas. This had never happened in human history before on the same scale.

    I agree with you. I believe that 9/11 truth was a major factor in Trump’s election in 2016, especially since he intimated during the campaign that he would expose the truth behind 9/11. Nobody dreamed that he would end up castigating the Saudis and going on an extended four year honeymoon with his Zionist masters!

    • Agree: Truth Vigilante
    • Replies: @CelestiaQuesta
  120. Mevashir says:
    @gottlieb

    It’s all mental masterdebation, like the feelies in BRAVE NEW WORLD and the two minute hates in 1984! It accomplishes nothing in the end but venting popular anger and ensuring that it is never translated into meaningful action. Above all there are no true leaders.

  121. We are NOW in the middle of a controlled demolition of America – started by and perpetuated by the same gang who did every other evil in the last 100 years.
    Therefore, prepare the remnant – http://www.crushlimbraw.com – that’s just history.
    We’re not the first empire to die and God knows who His enemies are even if we’re clueless. When Jesus called them children of the father of LIES, it wasn’t just rhetoric.
    Yes, reality is a bitch , but we earned it the old fashioned way by wallowing in our comforts while DaTermites infested our house.
    Eventually the Almighty WILL get our attention!

  122. Nobody cares (at least the majority of people), so what’s the use?

  123. RodAxel says:

    Having worked in Architecture it was obvious on day one that explosives destroyed the WTC. In 2003 there was a blog which contained the following: A young man got a temporary position with a structural engineering firm which had set up an office suite in one of the towers. Their mission was to explore ways that the towers could be safely and efficiently dismantled owing to a supposedly defective detail. To whit: as a result of galvanic reaction between the aluminum exterior cladding and the steel structure there would be an inevitable failure and the towers would be rendered unsafe.

    The blogger stated the office was closed and he was let go some time before 9-11-2001. After the towers “fell” he became suspicious of the firm and the work they were doing. I felt at the time this was important and would inevitably come out. Sadly it did not come out and I did not make a copy of the posting but am relating this from memory.

  124. @Anonymous

    Theory: The frantic US military attempted to actually strike the inbound commercial airliner (whether real or a computer war games simulation blip) but “missed” and struck the building it was “fired” to protect and that is what they can’t admit.

  125. The big mistake in my view was a lack of focus. The Truth Movement should have confined itself to WTC 7. A huge building designed to withstand earthquakes and plane impact collapsed in its own footprint due – allegedly – to a small fire near the top not long after Lucky Larry Silverstein gave the notorious “pull it” order and 20 minutes after the BBC announced that it had actually collapsed.

    • LOL: rufus clyde
  126. anon[190] • Disclaimer says:

    I had not heard about the \$2.3Trillion that went missing from the Pentagon until now. Interesting.

    One thing that makes me doubt the 9/11 Truther movement is this: if the whole thing was orchestrated by Israel, why did Osama bin Laden claim responsibility? And why didn’t he call out the Israeli ties? He was on the run for a decade, plenty of time to fess up and get the target off his back.

    Also, NYC is the world HQ of Jews, and the WTC was their citadel, with lots of Jew run companies as tenants incl. all major TV networks, CNN, financial firms like Cantor Fitzgerald, Morgan Stanley, Lehman Brothers, Kemper, Marsh & McLennan and many law firms. Would the Zionists really attack their own? And why? Just to rile up complacent neolib Jews and turn them into Ziocons? Hmm…I guess I wouldn’t put anything pass these ruthless unscrupulous people.

    • Replies: @CelestiaQuesta
    , @Mevashir
  127. If they can get away with a 9/11 attack, just imagine all the missing persons, unsolved murders, fatal accidents that have come and gone. Just look at what they released and are injecting into humanity at this very moment. We are up against an evil that has never appeared on earth since the dawn of mankind. This monster has wrapped its tentacles around every vital asset around the world. More than half of global population are blinded by propaganda and 24/7/365 indoctrination by GlobalHomoZioBIGsRxMIC3 overlords.
    How many see through the bs that those 600+ January 6th insurrectionists being held without bail or trial are a warning shot across the bow to white Americans now declared white Supremacists and domestic terrorists?
    Obey or disappear, by nuke or by spook.

    • Agree: Trinity, Robjil
  128. Mac_ says:

    If separating things a bit, those who ignore things from those who made effort, and despite the latter hasn’t made much change, among many things, one reason may be assuming websites would push enough people to protest more significantly, so some energy was lost in expectation on that, whereas if we also used own other creative angles it may have been more productive. Small contrast, once common but most people didn’t think of was paper letters or notes in postal mail, which if consider the last twenty years time frame was issue of spam, so on energy output vs result it was easy for ignorant types to set aside email because of spam, ignore substance because of the pile.

    Healthy focus I think is individual, or tiny groups, sharing ideas, and word of mouth is a counter to their messaging. On this ‘covid’, think of what the word count must be on words vaccine, mask, mandates, put across tv, fones, radio, web, the last year. Electronics pushing a message makes seem as if millions doing it, but is not. The only thing outside that, is businesses putting a mask sign on a window. Because people tend to not see through it, it can feel oppressive. I guess another is large stores using a recording have to listen to when inside, can make us feel surrounded with it, but again is about delineating tactics.

    Agree that as Truthers we can do differently, just have to think outside the boxes, and focus where we live. Should say I realize this is on web though most of my effort isn’t. The last note in article is good point, to focus less on nine eleven. And, in being effective I found best is just pick one or two things, to share that strikes people seriously. Some people just don’t know what to focus on. Lately have added making a bit more eye contact to my list on connecting, not weird just better. Sharing a fact if with calm strength can help others shift, even just half-minute interactions. Some people need a boot, and some just need a fact or two and sense of not being alone. Thanks for the article Alan.

  129. @anon

    Most likely for the same reasons Soros would turn against his own if there were financial gains to be realized. That’s how predatory monopolies become the monsters we see today.
    Evil knows no boundaries from which it flourishes.

  130. Trinity says:

    The Truth Movement did not fail. Contraire, oh ye toothless wonder. I would wager that 70% of all adults in this nation or even in the Western world now realize that the only conspiracy regarding 9-11 was “the official narrative.” TPTB know you know they are lying and they know you shot their conspiracy theory to hell and back, but they also know that you don’t have the platform or power to do anything about it. It is like, yeah you proved we lied all along, so what, what are you going to do about it. Same thing with the 2020 election, everyone and I mean EVERYONE knows this past Presidential election was stolen, but what are you going to do about it?

    They ((( TPTB))) could care less whether you prove their bullshit to be lies as long as they keep keeping on with the lies and blatant horseshit.

    Lavon Affair = Nothing changed or happened.
    JFK = Nothing changed or happened.
    USS Liberty = Nothing changed or happened.
    Jonathan Pollard = You guessed it. Other than Pollard serving time, muh Israel still retained its stranglehold on America.
    9-11, This one should have been the straw that broke the camel’s back, BUT = yep, same result.

    And the HUGE INSULT is that every year these clowns go out and have parties that consist of wining, dining and pocket lining each September 11 while pretending they are “mourning” the deaths of nearly 3,000 innocent American civilians ( well at least most were American I assume.) Funny, I never see a tear on any of these (((politician’s))) faces. Go figure.

    • Agree: Peripatetic Itch
  131. 911 was done by Israel and traitors in the ZUS government, Bush and the traitors in The Project For a New American Century, every thinking American knows they did it, but congress aka the lower house of the knesset is too scared and compromized to do anything about it, and proves again that the zionists rule America.

    • Replies: @Mevashir
  132. @Mevashir

    The GlobalHomoZioBIGsRxMIC3 deep state showed Trump how easy it was to eliminate him and his family at the stroke of a keyboard should he get out of line.
    This was once called extortion, but it doesn’t apply to patriots.

    • LOL: rufus clyde
    • Replies: @Mevashir
  133. @mulga mumblebrain

    The only difference between 9/11 and every single other psychological operation conducted in the US, is the role of the internet in disseminating information contrary to the official fairy tale. Vast swathes of the US population accept the fantasy narratives of “free enterprise”, “democracy”, the apparatus of the US state acting to establish or preserve “freedom” and/or “democracy”, etc.
    The idea that this one single event, in an unbroken chain of oppression, crushing of dissent, and foreign conquest, would be unwound, is simply absurd.

  134. Agent76 says:

    The *CIA* controls the media!

    September 10, 2021 The Bin Ladens and the Bushes: On 9/11 George Herbert W. Bush Meets Osama’s Brother Shafiq bin Laden

    Lest we forget, one day before the 9/11 attacks [as well as on the morning of 9/11, the dad of the sitting President of the United States of America, George Herbert Walker Bush was meeting none other than Shafiq bin Laden, the brother of the alleged terror mastermind Osama bin Laden.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-bin-ladens-the-bushes-and-911-a-former-us-president-meets-osamas-brother-not-subject-to-anti-terrorism-legislation/5582436

    September 11, 2013 9/11 Debunked in Under 5 Minutes

  135. @Laurent Guyénot

    I think we all should encourage the Taliban and the Government of Afghanistan to challenge the official 911 narrative. This will get international exposure and the US/Zio nexus will have to engage in some capacity to refute it. This might become the leak in the Dam and we could exploit it and make it a deluge.

    • Replies: @Mevashir
    , @Lysias
  136. @follyofwar

    Drumpf is too stupid for Lincoln Logs, let alone a “builder of large buildings”. An ignorant real estate swindler is not a builder. The only things that come out of his mouth are catch-phrases that he’s picked up after observing their effect on others. He repeats phrases that he sees invoke a reaction, like a realtor or a car salesman.

    • Thanks: Trinity
  137. @Mees Baaijen

    No point invoking long-ago things like the Glorious Revolution when the single greatest crime of the current century, that being the failed conquest of Iraq, is treated by media, academia, and people in general, as some kind of normal foreign policy event that just didn’t go quite right.

  138. Biff says:

    So many Monday morning quarter backs.

  139. @dimples

    It was a missile without a warhead maybe?

    I personally led the first Arlington fire engine up to the perfectly round smoking 4 ft hole in the wall. the hole fire went out, then the Pentagon wall collapsed about 60 yards away. That’s the famous Pentagon photo–blown out from inside in an unoccupied area under refurbishment

    The missile was off by 60 yards?

    • Replies: @dimples
  140. Mevashir says:
    @CelestiaQuesta

    We all should have known better. Trump never had to be threatened because he has always been in bed with Zionist fascists like Roy Cohn Adelson Michael Cohen and of course his BFF Netanyahu. According to Gordon Duff, Epstein introduced Trump to Melania.

    The folks at MoeSad and SheenyButt must be choking on their bagels over how they conned the KKK John Birchers neo-nazis and other so-called far right white nationalist groups to support the most Zionist president in US history.

    USAful Idiots

  141. Mevashir says:
    @Rev. Spooner

    Don’t you think Taliban silence on 9/11 was a quid pro quo for the US evacuating from the country? They will be paid generously to shut up and be stupid!

  142. @Charles Carroll

    Instead of “Herbert Hoover vacuumed up almost all documents “ shouldn’t you have said ‘Herbert Hoover hoovered up almost all documents ‘?

    Anyway, the Dog is a Shoving Leopard.

  143. What would define 9/11 truth success? I think the premise is that a majority of Americans being both aware of and caring about the lie that is the government/media narrative, would be success.

    The population of the US is no longer very bright. The readership at Unz is not representative of the average resident of this economic zone known as America. We have had many decades now of immigration from some of the dumbest populations across the planet. The education system has been in spectacular decay for longer than that. I read Paul Craig Robert’s column regularly and he’s fond of the term insouciance.

    In short, you have a dwindling number of US residents that are even capable of understanding the 9/11 evidence. And among that shrinking number, even fewer who care.

    The “Zionists’ all-or-nothing exercise” remains a success for them.

    Maybe if the truth movement could produce hip-hop videos? I think it’s even too late for that.

    • Replies: @AB_Anonymous
  144. Chris Moore says: • Website
    @anonymous

    One big reason is that easy, ugly, ignorant, hateful Muslim migrants have been doing terrible things all over the remaining White Western world – things like Somalian Muslim migrants butchering some English Conservative MP in a church. Things like sexual grooming poor English Girls in Rotherham England, things like many, so many suicide mass murder bombings in Paris, Manchester England – things like making suburbs of Malmo Sweden no go zones.

    The Islamic invasion is a result of the ((Jewish)) Mideast wars. In fact, it was engineered by ((Jews)) and ((Jew)) stooges to accomplish thus. Even ((Jewish)) “leftists” — people like ((Soros)) and ((Barbara Lerner Spectre)) — basically spelled it out.
    https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2010/09/16/kevin-macdonald-jews-play-a-leading-role-in-promoting-multiculturalism-in-europe/

    [MORE]

    So we’re back to the ((Jewish)) Global Fiat Currency agenda, to be headquartered in Zion. We’re back to Zionism. Always follow the money. And when dealing with ((Jews)) and their stooges, doubly so.

    Sorry, these 9-11-01 “Truthers” just come off as White hating, American bashing idiots that insist no Muslims, no 3rd world person of color ever did anything bad if they admit that some Arab/Turk/Pakistani did do something bad like mass murder our people, they insist we are somehow to blame for it for sins of you know…

    I suspect most “Truthers” are ((Jew))-haters. For good reason. Zionists did 9/11.

    No – that’s not going to work on regular Red State White Americans. And your eternal enemy the Je*s understand this so they just spun 9-11-01 as justification for yet another invasion of Iraq – that Axis of Evil speech scripted by Je* Neo Con Man David Frum was the worst. Why didn’t Truthers concentrate on refuting the Axis of Evil Nonsense?

    Red Staters are big on patriotism and militarism, right? They allowed the ((Jews)) to stampede them into the Mideast wars because they didn’t want to take the time to figure out how ridiculous and absurd the Establishment narrative was. They were predisposed to thinking about Muslims in a stereotypical manner crafted by ((Jews)).

    Now, saying Zionists created a stereotypical image of Muslims doesn’t mean the stereotypes are totally untrue, but that’s all the more reason NOT to poke our noses into the Mideast hornets nest.

    But ((Jews)) and their stooges WANT us to poke our noses in the nest, because their Zionist Global Fiat Currency agenda is precipitated on Israel being the center of the economic world, and ((Jews)) being in totalitarian control of everyone’s money.

    So we need to go back to Constitutional America. But the ((Jews)) then open up the borders and say “The USA doesn’t even exist. It doesn’t even have borders. It doesn’t even have a coherent charter.”

    Well, the ((Jews)) destroyed the borders AND the Constitution in a long-term process. And they packed the Supreme Court with their own Zionist kind.

    And the Red State retards, just like the Blue State retards, helped them do it. They were too busy grubbing money to pay attention to the psychotic pied pipers leading them into traps, left to right.

  145. @Abdul Alhazred

    It was Tarpley’s book “9/11 Synthetic Terror: Made in the USA” which introduced with historical context the notion of the “False Flag” which is now nearly a mainstream understanding of how these operations are done, and is a tool by which the deep state terrorist can be stopped.

    I agree the book was brilliant, but the rest of Tarpley’s stuff is just crazy.

    This is kinda like David Icke–has brilliant analysis of how conspiracies work and then he pushes the “reptilian” stuff.

    These guys seem to have self-destruct buttons or something…

  146. Anon[215] • Disclaimer says:

    The Mistake was in not repeating the event to prove to all that it was a false flag.

    If the Truth was revealed by re-staging aircraft attacks on duplicate towers, even the least bright would completely question the lies told by the Jews.

  147. Mevashir says:
    @Desert Fox

    but congress aka the lower house of the knesset

    Priceless expression! How about SHAG: Shabbos Goy Assembly?!

  148. Nancy says:
    @Brad Anbro

    I think that once the Semitic Termites found they could pull off assasinating a sitting president in broad daylight, they knew they had sufficient control of the US (banks, Fed, media, courts, etc) to do whatever they desired. The sky is the limit, as we are seeing right now…..

  149. Mevashir says:
    @anon

    One thing that makes me doubt the 9/11 Truther movement is this: if the whole thing was orchestrated by Israel, why did Osama bin Laden claim responsibility?

    He did not claim responsibility:
    https://edition.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/08/26/taliban-bin-laden/

  150. Lysias says:
    @Rev. Spooner

    As a sovereign state, Afghanistan can sue the U.S. in the International Court of Justice (aka World Court) in the Hague.

  151. Turk 152 says:

    I believe Alex Jones is a Truth Launderer who may have caused the destruction of the 9/11 narrative more than anyone. While he does get real intelligence from his sources, what better way to launder truth then route it to someone who also espouses that we are ruled by lizard people. 9/11 truthers became toxic under Jones. Thanks for making the criminality of our rulers entertainment Jones.

    • Replies: @Oldtradesman
  152. peterAUS says:

    The article, updated:

    The movement as a whole, which tries to speak the truth about the Scandemic to the people as well as to those in power, but increasingly lies to itself about the effect it is having. It’s most likely to end in complete failure, lacking only a decent funeral oration.

    An Overview

    …The Movement – and I include myself here –have never been able to convey that message in a politically significant way to enough of the Developed World public to matter.
    …the collapse of the efforts to expose TPTBS and to prevent “The Reset”.

    So Why Have We Been Failing?

    [MORE]

    Even posing this question is certain to prompt some – perhaps many – to assert that they are still fighting, and as long as they do, they have not yet lost. This assumes that effort without effect matters, and perhaps in a metaphysical sense, it does.
    Countering the official narrative ….has been admittedly a daunting task from the beginning.

    So where did it all go wrong, given the mountain of evidence and analyses on the side of the “Truthers” – enough to make the mountain of evidence about actual fraud in the 2020 elections seem like a molehill?
    First of all, we have been out-thought. ….we have not known how to present our case to the public in a coherent way that matters to them – there were many (I would say too many) ideas, but no strategy.
    Think of the …movement as a variant of China’s “Hundred Flowers” campaign in Mao Zedong’s early years in power. That one’s slogan was “let a hundred flowers bloom, let a thousand thoughts contend.”… the sheer number of contending – and often contradictory or mutually exclusive – ideas presented, some sensible but many not, without any overarching design means a good deal of activity with little or no practical effect.

    Our opponents, in contrast, seized the initiative from the outset, and never lost it. (I would love to meet with whoever devised their plan, the people behind the Event 21– it was masterful.) Their strategy has been simple: name a threat, seize control while people are still stunned and keep pushing the narrative.

    To safeguard the narrative, any who question what is being done (the “Truthers”) are dismissed as quacks, derided as fools, or treated as threat to public health. Governance by fear is not in theory the best form of governing, but it keeps most people from rethinking just why in the hell are we doing this? And it has worked – forget what happened to the “Truth” movement, which never really found an effective response – just look at how quickly the public submitted.

    Second, we were out-bought. It is an old saying that when money talks, everything else walks, and I expect that has been true throughout history. It certainly determined the course of the Truth movement, and all but dictated its failure.
    For all their efforts individually and collectively, the Truthers were never able to garner the support of even one major individual, non-profit or corporate donor. Not one.
    Financing of our efforts has been done on a literal shoestring, via monetizing videos or Patreon or similar pay-per-view efforts – IF they were permitted, and increasingly they were demonetized. None of the conservative billionaires or foundations supported our efforts, with anything more than a pittance – and that only rarely.
    So why was this the case? I expect insofar it aligns with their agendas. The most important: enhance wealth and power—control the plebs.

    The “Reset” planners and perpetrators, on the other hand, have a much easier task financially.
    The Globalists and their immense resources are at their back and call. Billionaires and multi-billion dollar individuals, foundations and corporations fund their activities and those of the organizations which support them. Incidental Patreon payouts and occasional YouTube proceeds didn’t much matter against those odds.
    And not surprisingly, they prevail.

    Third, we were out-fought.
    Absent a coherent strategy, we have been losing.
    The movement was infiltrated from the outset, those of us who’ve been fighting the good fight know it, but lacking any organization, any strategy, or any monetary resources, are powerless to excise or even counter them. Many Truthers seem in all too many instances to have spent as much effort attacking or criticizing one another as we do pursuing the supposed goal of undermining the narrative.
    Moreover, most of us – and I am a prime transgressor here – misunderstood the proper focus of our criticism. I and many others focus on the vaccines–but we forgot that even if we have convinced people that this does happen, they have no way to organize and do anything about it, given the near-total subservience of the mainstream and the social media.
    I am not smart enough to figure that out. Working on that in a team was a no starter from beginning. The proper focus, maybe, could have been effects of hard stagflation, visualized by pics from Soviet Union. Maybe.

    Today, it is probably too late: means or not, the time run out.
    In contrast to this haphazard and misguided approach to working through Scandemic, the “bad guys and gals” do well.
    We Truthers (to reuse an apt analogy applicable here] were like a thousand or more people standing in a circle, shooting arrows in all directions (and sometimes at one another) with no attention to impact or effectiveness. We tell ourselves that we are firing arrows, and that more people understand why we were doing it. That we hit little or nothing never seemed to register.
    But our opponents are like that same number of archers in a circle shooting collectively into the center: they are on target, largely do no damage to one another – and at least marginalize the Scandemic Truth movement, and ultimately make it irrelevant.
    If there is anything worse than fighting and failing, it is fighting and being meaningless.

    L’Envoi
    So where do we go from here?
    It ought to be abundantly clear that simply refilling our quivers, doing more podcasts or articles or whatever, won’t work. More of the same when that same has failed in the past is never smart. Nor are we going to alter the financial framework much, and the political situation is grim:

    It may well be too late to avert catastrophe.
    Still, catastrophe could harden 5 % enough for real work.
    Time will tell.

  153. @Veteran Aryan

    It does not matter who subscribes to which theory. As long as there is no convening of any grand jury with complete subpoena powers, the Truth Movement (and all the “theories) will go NOWHERE. See my comment #4 above.

    In regards to your subscription to the conspiracy theory which says that jet aircraft were flown into the twin towers, etc., and caused the collapses of them (and Building 7), one of the architects of the twin towers was interviewed ON CAMERA, stating that those buildings were so over-engineered, that they could withstand multiple simultaneous aircraft impacts and REMAIN STANDING.

    Of course, YOU have to then assume that the relatively cool-burning fires of the jet fuel (kerosene) and the office furnishings were hot enough to cause complete collapse, the pulverization of tons of concrete and the complete disappearance of the bulk of the steel girders. Not to mention the fact that the resulting fires could not be put out for WEEKS afterwards.

  154. i think you made the case early in the article

    a clear concise, easily understood narrative might have helped. instead of looking for the massive win with expert upon experts complex deconstructive arguments — which is great for the like minded —

    but the real target was the public and there were too many avenues too many expert testimonies and almost always fatal — accusing israel/jews directly of any anything — sounds and is over the top — rhetoric that casts israel or jews as

    villains as opposed to human beings or a nation if humans — is not only a mistake, it’s loaded with untruths which people interpret as some manner of white nationalist conspiracy fruit loops

    a simpler, subtler approach, minus the name calling that explains buildings don’t fall that way unless the heat distribution across the support was the same that was not the case in either tower

    that simple message minus all of the engineering schematics, complex political narratives and the inside job

    men of goodwill who though the country was coming needed a unifying event

    ———————-

    three simple prongs to a singular message and consistent message

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
  155. Trinity says:

    Saw this bumper sticker coming home just now. “JesUSAves” I thought, yep, Jesus does save but even the Prince of Peace doesn’t have time for Zionist whether they come in the shabbos goy white traitor trash variety or Jewish Supremacist megalomaniacs. Negro shabbos goy like Colon Bowel and others won’t be held to the same standards because they are simply too simple to be held to the same standards as white traitor trash. And of course unlike white traitor trash, Negro boot lickers do get thrown scraps from their Zionist Jew masters whereas blockheads like Donald “I never met a Jew whose ass I didn’t want to kiss” Trump or Honest Joe “I am a Zionist” Biden are disgusting Judas goats without a spine.

    Yep, I hate to say it, but in this case white traitor trash is even more repulsive than Negro lustful muh dik and greed. And make no mistake about, Honest Joe and Donnie Boy are white traitor trash.

    NOBODY likes a traitor. Ever see any statues of Benedict Arnold?

  156. @EliteCommInc.

    The “simple, clear message” approach will not work.

    We are dealing with human emotions here–no logical approach can succeed.

    Conspiracy theories (regardless of how true) require a rejection of the status quo, a willingness to accept that political leaders and the mass media are mass sociopaths and liars.

    That is emotional trauma for most folks.

    It is just easier for them to obey and “follow the rules” and believe what they are told.

    The analogy is water flowing–it will find the easy way to flow–it requires a lot of energy to get it to do otherwise.

    Then if you add financial incentives to “go along to get along” the battle is lost.

    I consider myself an excellent communicator (debating team in my younger years) and I have tried for years to convince others to change their way of looking at the world–with minimum success.

    Their “mental water” just will not flow up-hill.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  157. Geowhizz says:
    @saggy

    Yep. That’s a question for both the Pentagon and Pennsylvania 9/11 crashes.

    • Replies: @Olivier1973
  158. @Truth Vigilante

    The approach speed of the aircraft that did impact with the Pentagon is well documented

    So well documented that in your wall of ‘reply’ text you refer to it only obliquely, at best.

    Get up off your arse and do the legwork yourself to track that down on the internet.

    I like how this works. I need to get off my arse to do the legwork for your vacuous assertion. Okay, the airspeed never went over 283 kts. Don’t believe me? Get off your ass! [Hey, that is a convenient tactic. Thanks.]

    [MORE]

    Gravity (ie: 1 G) = 9.8 metres per second squared. Therefore, if your calculations yield around 60 metres per second squared, that’s around 6 G.

    And—shocking—GIGO. You may calculate all day long, talking about g-force this and ‘loop’ that, yet you’ve gotten no closer to the truth, because your input is garbage.

    She says: ‘In the room, there was almost a sense of relief – THIS MUST BE A FIGHTER’.

    ie: a Fighter aircraft. Because ONLY a fighter aircraft could make those small radius turns at that speed.

    Too bad for your wall of cloud, I watched that part. She said nothing there about a small-radius turn indicating a fighter. She said she thought it was a fighter because it turned away. That video is trash from top to bottom, and ‘Controller’ O’Brien has crisis actor written on her forehead. On a line basically bisecting the DC mall, her brother controller figures out, miles away, that it’s headed for the White House! LOL. You must be a sucker for after-school made-for-TV movies.

    Of course, anyone who says seriously, “moving at a very high rate of speed” is a physicist mocking the public, or merely a conventional idiot. You say Crisis Actor O’Brien stated that the jet was flying at 400 kts. Didn’t hear that part. I heard the moron voiceover alleging “a speed of about 500 mph” (434 kts). It’s all too silly for words.

    exceed its recommended G limits and disintegrate in the process.

    An airplane typically doesn’t disintegrate after merely exceeding recommended g limits. Again, GIGO.

    From recollection, the turn radius of the aircraft that did the 270 degrees corkscrew 800 feet descending dive was around 700 metres during its tightest turn.

    And there it is! The source of the crucial parameter—your recollection.

    We do know that it accelerated during this manoeuvre and ultimately topped out at around 500 knots just before impacting with the Pentagon.

    No, we don’t know that. Which brings up the core insanity: You choose what to believe and discard the rest. The same people from which you get your alleged flight data are the same people telling you the aircraft type. Pure as the snow for one, lying jerks the other?

    For a given turn radius that would’ve entailed an even greater G load.

    Yadda yadda. Any idea what it’s like to increase airspeed in a high-g turn? High-g turns are speed limiting, ceteris paribus; it’s normally a struggle to maintain airspeed at high g-loads. A high-g maneuver is a great way to bleed speed. Supposedly, the theoretical power requirement for a coordinated level turn at 90-degree bank angle is… infinite. Infinite power. Obviously, with enough power, altitude, and lesser bank angle, speed may be increased, but given your fairy tale, I’m questioning everything—your sources, who you believe, etc.

    Suffice to say, it was somewhere in the range of those numbers.

    No sufficing here. The good news is that I don’t need to believe anything the state says. I see their acts.

    • Replies: @Truth Vigilante
  159. Wild Man says:
    @Mike Fridelle

    I guess I for one, as a boy, came to the JQ quite early (even though where I grew up, in my neighborhood, there were no Jews …. but many many families that had originally heralded from Christian Eastern Europe …. Poles, Ukrainians and the like …. whom were my school chums …. even though my ethnic background is Hebrides Scottish, Kildare Irish, O’Brien western Irish, and Yorkshire English). In the very late 1960’s or very early 1970’s, perhaps it was grade 5, 6 or 7, …. sometimes we would get a 16 mm film (or maybe it was 8 mm) shown in the classroom (in Canada). I always liked when that came up, beause it was almost always way more interesting than listening to the teacher drone on about something (that usually, I had already learned and already understood).

    But there was one repeating film-theme that would repeat and repeat … much footage …. many such film documentaries …. which I guess the school board was keen on bringing into the curriculum. And that was this holocaust narrative. Wow were those images ghastly. Naked people being marched around at gunpoint, with their hands up, and their genitals, bosoms and buttocks showing, in a field, with a later scene of dead naked bodies piled in a trench seemingly dug just for that purpose. That type of thing. A bit overwhelming. I didn’t enjoy these particular films (after the first one I didn’t see or understand the need to keep revisiting these ghastly images). Now ….. what got me …. is that they didn’t stop exposing us young students to that, at the young impressionable age. It seems that the school system had a hard-on for these particular films. By then, I already knew enough to know that genocides had occurred quite regularly, throughout the 19th and 20th centuries, ….. yet these other genocidal atrocities were not promoted anywhere even close to approaching the holocaust coverage, at school. So I began to wonder about that ….. and what I concluded as a young lad ….. is that there is something wrong with a group of people that does this. Why does one genocide get all the attention? Aha …. because those that were on the receiving end of other genocides, and survived, were alot more gracious and mature with respect to putting it all in proper perspective, so they can properly get on with their lives. That is what I concluded. For some reason the Jewish group doesn’t seem to grasp that other people see this type of behavior as a monster-like need, to dishonor their own dead, in order to get something tangible for themselves in the here and now.

    The holocaust industry is the right place to come to terms with the Jewish gestalt. And it is weird (this Jewish gestalt). Far weirder than occurs with any other group. It’s like they see, what other groups would take to be ‘vice’ as ‘virtue’. Deeply disordered. This all came to me by about the age of 10, 11 or 12, at school (of course thoughts that I just kept private, …. I already knew by then that most people didn’t really value deep insights … so why even try).

    • Replies: @Mevashir
    , @Badger Down
  160. TKK says:
    @anonymous

    I just wonder why someone would decide on the screen name…..saggy.

  161. @Geowhizz

    Yep. That’s a question for both the Pentagon and Pennsylvania 9/11 crashes.

    Nope. The answer is very simple.

    Look at this one:

    Even not necessary to change names.

  162. Mr. Sabrosky, we can write a million words describing the failures of the 911 Truth movement, but what we can’t write or refuse to write of is why no one has been prosecuted, or even questioned. And it’s not for lack of cause or suspects. Had this been an apartment complex arson, a novice city prosecutor would have been more effective. The show we know as 911 was scripted by high level actors from start to finish. Had just a few low level operators, let’s say for example: a network news anchor, a radar tech, Silverstein, the NYC police commissioner, or Rudy Giuliani; if 2 or 3 of those characters been subjected to intense interrogation the entire conspiracy would have fallen. But it can’t happen here because our DoJ is complicit. And for this reason Covid19 has legs, and we’re shoeless.

    • Thanks: Trinity
  163. Iris says:
    @Leif Sachs

    In order to establish whether the 9-11 Truth movement failed, you’d have to ascertain what constitutes success. What were we expecting to achieve, and were we realistic?

    Dr Sabrosky wrote a great article, but indeed, he should have separated between two very different problems.

    Did the 9/11 Truth movement fail in bringing to light the true events of 9/11? No, it didn’t. Over the years, undisputable scientific proofs have established that:
    – (1) WTC7 came down by controlled demolition
    https://ine.uaf.edu/wtc7

    – (2) the energy at play in the destruction of the WTC could only have been of nuclear nature, because of the stratospheric thermal footprint that resulted from the collapse of the 3 towers.
    https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-02004696

    In the real life, in a trusty circle of professional physicists or engineers speaking without fear of losing their jobs, the discussion on 9/11 is done and dusted within less than 10 minutes: the WTC came down by controlled underground nuclear detonation, at the exclusion of any other possibility.

    If such expert discussion was freely allowed in a court of justice, the conclusion would be the same, without any other possible alternative. So the 9/11 Truthers did not fail: they did resolve the 9/11 crime of the century.

    What failed is that the irrefutable proofs brought by the scientist Truthers, based on incontestable principles of civil engineering and thermal science, have never found their way, neither to a court of justice, nor to the mainstream media.

    So the Truthers haven’t failed; the American political and judicial systems have.

    Dr Sabrosky is rightly worried about the fate of America, and his call seems to be that saving the nation is at the moment more important than pursuing the 9/11 Truth. It is a very commendable, patriotic and understandable position.

    But the 9/11 Truth does not need pursuing anymore: it has already been established, has an existence of its own, is stored in the minds and computers of millions of people outside of America, some of whom have greatly and unjustly suffered from the alleged “War on Terror”, and will neither forget nor forgive.

    The reckoning of the 9/11 crime against humanity is inevitable, but it will come and made public from outside America, once she has lost her power to intimidate and silence other nations.

    • Thanks: Miro23
  164. You lost (not all of you : many just expected to do their job of informing more people about what a false flag is and have succeeded) because you couldn’t name the foe, i.e. Israel and the Jews, without being prosecuted not only by them but by the deepest rooted American Christian soul. When you cannot name your foe you lose. You lost because among you enterprise there were as many Jews and Zionists and Evangelists than among your adversaries. The foe just couldn’t be named. The only ones who could have named the foes were the radical Muslims of the kind that fight the US as the great Satan of which Israel is the little. You would never have joined an enterprise led by people striving for the destruction of the US, would you have?

    When being about to lose it all, the government of the Third Reich made it clear that from then on only some form radical Islam could go on continuing the fight against Jewish supremacy : they had realized that nations historically defined and created by Christianity or by the Enlightenment were 100% unfit for the job.

    Second : you cannot win a war where the designated enemy collaborates to the attack it undergoes in exchange for collateral advantages, and that was the case of the Ben Laden Associates enterprise as well as of the most openly antisemitic princes of Saudi Arabia. Believe it or not the 9-11 even was very profitable for antisemitic Islam as well as for Judaism : from that date on Islam, and radical Islam, has been the number 1 religion in numbers of conversion, it immediately replaced Hinduism and associated oriental spiritualities as the Zionist-Christians’ main adversary of reference and as the main spiritual alternative to the mainstream one. Since the 9-11 Islam has been increasing by exponential numbers like no other religion, whereas Hinduism is now associated with old Hippies that side with Israel and participate in the worst aspects of wokery. To sum up the thing the whole project was engineered by Bin Laden Associates Inc, who are the world’s biggest enterprise in derrick, high-rise and industrial building construction, maintenance and controlled demolition. The project was engineered in Jeddah, KSA. The engineers themselves were and still are nearly all Israelis or Jews, though the management board and especially the entrepreneurial family (66 siblings) is mystically antisemitic and Usama bin Laden, supposed to have been that joint family’s accursed son, always played his part for the family’s economic benefit.

    Both the Israelis and their official enemies had agreed upon killing American liberties like the Third Reich and Stalin’s USSR just before WWII had agreed upon destroying Poland and France. When the two strongest opposite poles of a debate collaborate, you cannot intervene to derive any benefit for you. The wisest attitude was to keep away from that debate in the same way there is nothing to gain intervening in a conflict between political parties in Israel : it always results in giving Israel more power and helps the worst of both parties gain upon the other. The very cause of 9-11 truth was a debate between Zionists for the most part, at best, had it “won” it would have resulted in Michael Moore, as the author of Fahrenheit 9-11, and Kerry being the clear chief winners together with their climate change and great reset agenda which would have thereby been implemented 5 years in advance : the losers would have been the White Christian deplorables who then identified with Bush albeit superficially and would have given way much sooner to the corporate woke.

    When the bearers of the true flag consent to lead their flag for a false flag operation in exchange for collateral advantages it is no use entering any debate. You should have kept away.

  165. peterAUS says:
    @Justvisiting

    True.

    The flip side:

    [MORE]

    We are dealing with human emotions here–no logical approach can succeed.

    Then we use the same approach. Fear of what’s coming.
    Not now.
    WHEN things get bad enough; THEN the fear of what’s coming. That “worse” option.

    “Changers”

    require a rejection of the status quo, a willingness to accept that political leaders and the mass media

    are working against a “normie”.

    That is emotional trauma for most folks.

    So, we wait for an emotional trauma the paradigm will bring on a “normie”. AFTER he/she goes through it “we” could work with him/her.
    We can see start of it, where I live, with people who are losing/likely to lose their jobs because they aren’t on the “narrative”. They’ve gone through emotional trauma and persisted. THOSE are the people to work with. We here, anyway…..

    It is just easier for them to obey and “follow the rules” and believe what they are told.

    Yes. As long as those rules work for them where it really matters.
    As for example

    Then if you add financial incentives to “go along to get along” the battle is lost.

    if those incentives don’t work anymore.

    Now, most won’t get on “our” side. They’ll follow TPBTs no matter what.
    But, a sizeable number will not.

  166. Skeptikal says:
    @admin user

    “that segment was never aired again or posted anywhere online, but I saw it with my own eyes the day it happened ”

    What about the Wayback Machine, or whatever it is called.

    Janet [Dutch name, maybe Osterbaard], film maker who has produced a series of documentaries on the covid op, has stated that anything that ever was on the Internet can be excavated if one knows how to look. She has “excavated” scrubbed documents that mention covid-19 as far back as 2017.

    I certainly don’t how to do such an internet search, but maybe someone else here does.

  167. @Laurent Guyénot

    Of course that is what he said, Laurent. You nitwit. What else was he gonna say? That his mom did it?

    Sabrosky just said you guys failed. Now try to be smart. Go away, regroup, retool and come back on the 30th anniversary.

  168. Skeptikal says:
    @Alan Sabrosky

    Thanks, Mr. Sabrosky, for the great article.

    If there had been money available, how do you think it could have or should have been spent?

    A commenter has mentioned how the perps (must have) spent money to buy judges.

    How else did those with the means actually use money to quash questions and investigation?

    By “buying” the news media?

    “Buying” the 9/11 Commission members? Or were they actually the perps?

    Who else? Or how?

    By buying shares in social media companies and thus controlling them and their content?

    Or by outright threats and blackmail, a la Epstein?

    Despite the exceedingly slim chances of any measurable success in turning the bad ship 9/11 Narrative, it is still important to keep trying, to keep searching for the truth. I agree that the focus on the Towers may have been an inadvertent case of misdirection. Perhaps more people’s minds can be brought to focus on miraculous poof of evidence regarding \$2.3 trillion than on the three buildings.

    I personally was very appreciative to see your contributions here at the Unz Review, as I had not previously heard of you.

  169. Anonymous[992] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    I also read articles in the Washington Post a month or so after the crash that having hijacked the cockpit, the Hijackers were apparently SUPPOSED to crash into the White House, but as ANY Washington tourist can tell you, the White House is SURROUNDED by TREES and UNRELATED buildings. So FINDING the White House from a LOST, LOW FLYING aeroplane is a reasonable challenger.

    Dude, don’t be an idiot. The White House is easy to find. You DO know that a plane was purposely crashed into the White House during the Clinton administration, RIGHT? Anyone who’s seen a picture of it or simply walked by it (it’s easy to find) can tell you it’s NOT “SURROUNDED by TREES”.

    Do you even watch TV bro?

    Your argument boils down to “a friend of a friend.” That is some weak tea.

    Twelve hours to get home? Are you developMENTALLY challenged?

    • Agree: TitusAlone
  170. Phoenix says:

    I think failure is too harsh of an evaluation.

    Yes the 911 truth movement has been a failure if you consider success is defined as achieving by a specific date:

    1. The perpetrators confessing their guilt

    2. Perpetrators convicted by the U.S. legal system [a system that the perpetrators themselves operate]

    Through the 911 truth movement millions of people have been awakened to the lying nature of politicians and the media and Israeli involvement in the whole affair.

    Chris Moore says:
    . . . Top ((Jews)) understood something simple early on: get control of the money, and you get control of nearly everything. Mayer Rothschild even laid it out: “Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws!”

    So essentially they have been running the U.S. for over 100 years – since 1913 when Jewish bankers arranged for themselves to have a monopoly over the U.S. money supply through the Federal Reserve.

    • Agree: TitusAlone
  171. Ron Unz says:

    To support a point that many others have been making on this thread, it’s extremely difficult to ever get the MSM to reverse its position on a “conspiracy.”

    For example, my own extensive recent article on the Liberty incident mentions that the deliberate nature of the attack was publicly stated by the leaders of the CIA, NSA, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and our Secretary of State. Massive evidence has come forward over the years, as recounted in heavily-praised best-selling books and front-page MSM newspaper articles. But since the electronic media ignores it, 99+% of Americans remain completely unaware:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-remembering-the-liberty/

    Another perfect example is that astonishing McCain/POW Scandal. Here’s part of a recent comment of mine:

    Here’s a much more realistic example. Sydney Schanberg was one of the most famous journalists in America, a top editor at the New York Times, a Pulitzer Prize winner, whose Oscar winning movie has become one of the two or three best known accounts of our disastrous Indochinese War. His best friend later ran the NYT.

    He spent almost twenty years working on the McCain/POW scandal, certainly one of the biggest of the late 20th century, and amassed a huge mountain of evidence proving his case. Absolutely nobody anywhere would publish it, which enormously irked him. The only reason it’s now become even somewhat known is that I happened to discover it on a small website, and over the years began promoting it, first in TAC and more recently in my own writings in this webzine. I don’t doubt his conclusions will eventually be accepted, but such things do take time:

    Remember, we’re talking about one of the most famous and highly-regarded journalists in America providing a mountain of evidence on a gigantic scandal implicating a presidential candidate…and nobody in the media would touch it. After that, I never believed the MSM about anything else.

    Don’t forget that a document was later found in the Kremlin archives confirming Schanberg’s POW claims and was reported in a front-page NYT story, with both Zbigniew Brzezinski and Henry Kissinger immediately going on the PBS Newshour to admit the whole thing was probably true. But the MSM ignored these revelations and nothing changed.

    I should also mention that over the years, I’ve received a number of confidential notes from reasonably prominent and elderly individuals (the sort who get big NYT obituaries) who confirmed that Schanberg’s claims were probably true based upon their own personal knowledge from that era.

    If the MSM can ignore and cover-up this, they can do the same with absolutely anything.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/was-rambo-right/

    https://www.unz.com/article/mccain-and-the-pow-cover-up/

    https://www.unz.com/article/silent-treatment/

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-when-tokyo-rose-ran-for-president/

    Can anyone think of any major conspiracy/cover-up that was ever revealed by the MSM, at least before generations had gone by and everyone involved had been dead for decades?

    • Agree: TKK, Biff, TitusAlone
    • Thanks: Truth Vigilante
  172. Anon[148] • Disclaimer says:

    I think this was a checkers game where you have 3 pieces fewer than your opponent. There was, there is, no strategy or moves that could alter the outcome and prevent defeat.

    Unless billionaire and big millionaire (i.e., some big media and social media, and representatives) support started to be there… but if that were there, no 9-11 would have come to pass. If that were there, maybe the last presidential election wouldn’t have been… overturned. It just never is there.

  173. Skeptikal says:
    @Getaclue

    I watched the video about Terry Yeakey.

    I didn’t know about this. Shocking.

    Why isn’t BLM focusing on solving this crime, the murder and silencing of a black police officer, most likely by whites, and the cover-up via a spurious suicide story?

    That would actually be useful, as opposed to rioting in the streets and burning down and looting businesses.

  174. Mevashir says:
    @Wild Man

    I was raised in a Jewish family and when we attended Jewish Sunday school they showed us the same kinds of movies that you saw. And while all of my friends sitting around me were crying, I sat there frozen, not sure what to think. I felt sort of abused by the movies and I didn’t understand the purpose or motivation of the teachers in showing this to us.

    [MORE]

    It was particularly ironic because I was raised at Stanford during the Vietnam war when it was revealed that the Stanford computer science department was designing targeting software to enable the US Air Force to drop Napalm on Vietnamese villages. So while everyone was shedding crocodile tears about the Holocaust, nobody talked about the Vietnamese being incinerated from the air with Napalm that was developed by a Harvard chemist.

    I had a wonderful German teacher in high school who would give us extra credit assignments to read the Luther German translation of the Bible. Eventually he was reported to the school board and fired.

    I also had a friend in high school who had a Jewish stepfather that he hated. We took European history class together and he tried to interest me in revisionist ideas not just about the Holocaust but about NS Germany altogether. I remember also my German class went to see the movie Cabaret and while everybody was raving about it I thought it was a filthy decadent depiction of depravity. I wasn’t impressed by the Cabaret culture at all but at that point I had no idea of the role of Jews in promoting decadence in Weimar era Berlin:
    https://www.darkmoon.me/2013/the-sexual-decadence-of-weimar-germany/

    I think the best way to deconstruct the whole Holocaust narrative is to point out that the rich Jews were able to buy their way to freedom. You never hear of a Rothschild Warburg Kuhn Loeb Lazard or Lehmann perishing in the Holocaust. I think what is going on is the rich Jews had a showdown with Hitler and NS Germany. And the middle class midling Jews of Europe were taken hostage and were victimized in the power struggle. And these rich elitist Jews who run the Zionist organizations use the Holocaust to beat on the Jewish masses with survivor’s guilt shame and a desire for vengeance that ends up green lighting all the abusive behavior of the Zionists.

    If you can point out to Jewish Holocaust worshipers the fact that not a single wealthy Jew ever perished in that tragedy, it might get them to open their eyes and start to understand what is really going on here.

    • Thanks: TKK
    • Replies: @Wild Man
  175. Skeptikal says:
    @Ron Unz

    Another example of an “in the open” cover-up or, rather, suppression of “unwelcome” news and views was the inability of John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt, two established foreign policy experts and academics, to find an American publisher who would touch their paper on the Israel Lobby.

    It ran in the London Review of Books.

    Eventually their book on the Israel Lobby was published, supposedly with changes.

    Wiki has an account of the incident; I can’t vouch for its reliability, but has some interesting nuggets:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Israel_Lobby_and_U.S._Foreign_Policy#Background

    Other celebrated journalists have been more or less openly shunned when they got too close to third-rail information or went outside the Overton Window.

    The My Lai story is interesting in that Seymour Hersh seems to have found the military flat-footed. Of the reaction to the imminent publication of Hersh’s report, Wiki says this:
    “The story threatened to undermine the U.S. war effort and severely damage the Nixon presidency. Inside the White House, officials privately discussed how to contain the scandal. On November 21, National Security Advisor Henry Kissinger emphasised that the White House needed to develop a “game plan”, to establish a “press policy”, and maintain a “unified line” in its public response to the incident. The White House established a “My Lai Task Force” whose mission was to “figure out how best to control the problem”, to make sure that administration officials “all don’t go in different directions” when discussing the incident, and [its mission was also] to “engage in dirty tricks”. These included discrediting key witnesses and questioning Hersh’s motives for releasing the story. What soon followed was a public relations offensive by the administration designed to shape how My Lai would be portrayed in the press and understood among the American public

    So, ass covering at all costs. This was an in-plain-sight a conspiracy to conceal the truth and discredit Hersh. But does anyone call it a conspiracy? If one did, would that person be labeled a “conspiracy theorist”?

    The fact of the matter is that history is full of conspiracies, and the conspiracies are primarily those whose aim is to maintain dominant narratives and suppress inconvenient truths.

    • Agree: Miro23
    • Thanks: TitusAlone
  176. Mevashir says:

    Nor are we going to alter the financial framework much, and the political situation is grim: We have an America that is on the verge of social and economic collapse, overlaid by an impending Democrat party dominance of the political system for the foreseeable future. If we are lucky, there’ll be a civil war that precludes that outcome.

    I don’t know why Sobraski is always running down the Democrats. Does he really think the Republicans are a more attractive alternative? The worst abuses of 9/11 occurred on the watch of bushii. Under the clown presidency of trump, Israel was given a blank check on virtually every strategic demand they have. So why does Sobraski prop up the fiction that the Republicans are somehow preferable to the Democrats? Why does this doctor have a strange-love for the repugnicans?

    • Replies: @Oldtradesman
  177. @Turk 152

    I believe Alex Jones is a Truth Launderer who may have caused the destruction of the 9/11 narrative more than anyone.

    I agree with you. Jeff Rense is another one.

  178. Skeptikal says:
    @R.C.

    “the real final nail in the coffin was around 2018-19 the last lady in DC and her lawyer who had to pay fines of \$10K & \$20k as I recall. She was the widow who refused the ‘official’ hush money, and that took integrity on both of their parts. By the time it went down, they had been able to provide more information than most people realize and some scumbag bought and sold and owned DC jurist threw it out claiming they’d not presented enough evidence to even have a jury trial! ”

    Can you elaborate? Who/what are you talking about?

    • Agree: Mevashir
    • Replies: @TitusAlone
  179. @Mevashir

    So why does Sobraski prop up the fiction that the Republicans are somehow preferable to the Democrats? Why does this doctor have a strange-love for the repugnicans?

    Because Stupid is better than Evil?

  180. @Just another serf

    “What would define 9/11 truth success? “

    I think Covid-19 truth success would be the one. Both because it’s hard to imagine
    anyone rejecting official version of 9/11 to digest the one for Covid-19, and because
    it looks to me like the last chance for humanity to escape the fate of an “unsuccessful
    experiment” – whether it evolves into a computerized human-cattle farm, or thrown
    back into a stone age by the mercy of higher forces.

  181. I am not convinced that the event was an inside job. However, I agree that there are some very serious unanswered questions.

    In response to

    “The “simple, clear message” approach will not work.”

    I can only say, that as you indicate, most of us are not very sophisticated. And since the simple non-convoluted complicated and non-insulting case was not made, then one cannot very well dismiss its advocacy. Furthermore, time is a factor. And unlike the author, I am not sure failure is the correct assessment.

    But simple, uncomplicated, less personal attacks/characterizing Jews/israel approach was not attempted.

    —————————

    “The “simple, clear message” approach will not work.”

    unfortunately, or fortunately — we won’t know, at least not yet

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
  182. JamesinNM says:

    The 9/11 truth has not failed. At the final judgement, the truth will be shouted from the rooftops, and all evil will suffer the second death and burn for eternity. Life is a mere breath, but eternity is forever. You cannot con God.

  183. Abbybwood says:
    @Herr K

    What kinda got me was no plane crash in Shanksville.

    Not even a hole!

    No plane parts, no bodies, no luggage, no food service carts, nada.

    How’d they fly THIS bullshit past us?!

    • Replies: @Truth Vigilante
  184. First suggestion for going forward to expose 911 truth:

    Don’t waste time arguing about what it was: Simply point out that a 757 did not hit, that the named pilot who could not fly a propeller-driven Cessna could not possibly have flown a 757 if it had been there, and use that as the point of departure.

    And a point of departure to where that leads to what truth? Holograms that were used to fool people into imagining aircraft (not 757) hit a Tower? WE have gone through this and ignoring the key element of the case gets you nowhere.

    The fact and truth is that 911 was en alaborately created Potemkin village. But even such a village must be based on same moaterial reality to be convincing. Simply calling it a Potemkin village won’t convince anyone of anything unless you can point out exactlt how it is such and how it was made to be real to convince you it was.

    But I agree the issue the case raises about what happened needs to be nrought out in ways that will be convincing.

    A way to start is by asking fire fighters if 911 made them afdrasid of entering bnurning high rise structurral steel building for fear that fire will collapse them. Then ask them why not when the officiao report claims that fires caused the buildings to collapse, and that being so, how have structureal engineering requirements been changed to ensure their saftey won’t be endangered if they enter burning structural steel buildings?

    Another approach is to ask the public if they are afraid of living in high rise structural steel building when fires can cause them to collapse, and then poursue that issue.

    In short, bring the government explanmation of 911 home to how their lives would be impactred if the world actually operated as the gov=ernment version of 911 were real, amd what has to be real if they don;t bbeleive it in their own lives.

  185. @Anonymous

    she’s far more idiot than PhD.

    When has there ever been a difference between the two?

  186. @Kurt Knispel

    Which is worse, killing 3,000 of your own people, or killing 1,300,000 people in Iraq who never did anything to the US? From the “israeli” point of view, none of these are people.

  187. Simple. The 9/11 Truth Movement failed because it was a lie, blaming it on Israel and the Jews.
    Same with Jew hatred it will ultimately fail because it is a lie. How many articles on the USS Liberty can be written with a big yawn. No one cares because it all based on the same failed logic. The Jews are evil and responsible for all the evil in the world. Ron keeps writing and re writing his greatest Jew hatred hits. The Jews drink the blood of Gentile children lol. All lies.

    Long live the failure of all the lies on UR including the 9/11 truthers which is dead as a door nail.
    Deader then dead. Hopefully the beginning of the end of Internet Jew hatred fueled by lies. It has hit its hey day and is beginning to recede. Look at Phillip Giraldi he writes the same article every week with a different title. What a bore.

  188. Moreover, most of us – and I am a prime transgressor here – misunderstood the proper focus of our criticism. I and many others focused on the WTC – especially WTC7 – because it was so blatantly obvious that the three towers were brought down by controlled demolitions…

    Author Sabrosky will resent, and probably reject what I’m going to say now. The “9/11 Truth” Movement made as its centerpiece the claim some “controlled demolitions” were the main factor in bringing down the twin towers. Magical nano-thermite or micro-nukes are invoked to replace the perfectly reasonable standard explanations. Very few people are going to buy into this, and their disbelief will naturally spread to the things which really happened that day.

    I suggest ditching the “controlled demolitions” stuff and concentrating on finding the “Truth” of the genuine mysteries. Personally, I doubt the Apartheid state would be very happy if such a change of direction happened.

    • Replies: @RestiveUs
  189. @Wild Man

    Holoprop has a great weakness. They tried to make it as shocking as possible, but everything they focused on raised suspicion.

    Why were those prisoners naked, in the Polish winter? Are we looking at “Nazi” imagination, or Jewish imagination? Oh yes, lice and typhus! That’s why they were naked, and skinny.

    Lampshades and purses made from human skin! Debunked! And the artefacts disappeared.
    “Nazi” shrunken heads! Disappeared!

    Six million! Not 5, or 7, or 5.7! And forget about Poles, Germans, and Russians. 6m! Believable?
    Eli Weasel’s chimneys belching smoke and flames! Believable?
    Poor Little Anne Frank murdered by “Nazis”! Believable?

    Who dreamed up this stuff?
    The “death camp” commandant shoots innocent victims! “Nazi” imagination, or Jewish imagination?
    “israeli” snipers shoot the inmates of concentration camp Gaza! Jewish imagination or Jewish reality?

  190. anon[325] • Disclaimer says:

    Fact is the 911 ‘truth’ movement didn’t fail. There are still hundreds of millions people the world over who know that the ‘official’ version is completely fake. You can’t change that. Israel did it. Lie till your face is blue, make lottsa money. You can’t change the fact.

  191. Wild Man says:
    @Mevashir

    Thank-you for those insights. I (and many people here) are sometimes not careful enough, when talking about Jewishness, the JQ etc., to ensure we make those differentiations about the larger Jewish community, that you point out. It’s just the craziest topic …. for someone like me, that has always been sensitive to cultural signals (even from a young age), but grew up in a western Canadian city, in a neighborhood, where I couldn’t actually talk to a Jewish person (because there wasn’t any in my neighborhood, and the Jewish community is not large in western Canada, at any rate). So what to make of the unmistakable and surprisingly robust (though very weird) Jewish cultural signal, one couldn’t help but notice, then – eh? Then, as I got older, I did meet quite a few Jewish men, … and the ones that I met through my (now-ex) wife, through her work, ….. all these men were true gentleman and stellar contributors to the larger community, …. high-level medical professionals. I see strength of character, compassion, mental discipline, and intelligence in these men. Any society would be most happy to have these individuals. So what gives?

    [MORE]

    I always thought that the quandary must be because there is some sort of stratification within the Jewish community itself (as you point out). What I have wondered about (alot actually) is this: ….. Is there something about the larger Jewish community, somehow turning a blind eye, to those in their midst, …. that are the source of the problems the larger community (the nation as a whole) suffer, by way of what looks like to be some sort of psychopathic intent, by such Jewish members? Why would the Jewish community tolerate that in their midst? It’s as if the larger Jewish community allows their psychos to speak for the community, when this tends to very much tarnish the image of the larger Jewish community. Shouldn’t the larger Jewish community be the first to reject, and call foul, upon these psychos? You and Mr. Unz seem to be exceptions in that regards.

    I dunno. Think of the Irish let’s say, or the Italians, when they emigrated to America. Both of these immigrant communities in America, went subversive here and there, to try to cheat the WASP power establishment of the time, because the WASP power establishment hierarchy was set-up to cheat them. But it seems that once each of these immigrant communities, felt they had achieved fairness, the larger Italian community and the larger Irish community, in America, began to not tolerate these thugs in their midst so much. But it almost seems as what happened with the Jewish immigrant community, is … same deal ….. cheat the WASP establishment because the WASP establishment were cheating them (maybe cheated in different ways, …. access to clubs, institutions and such) but once the fairness parity was reached, this Jewish endeavor didn’t stop. The Jewish thugs operating within the larger Jewish community were so good that they took over the American establishment. Why did this happen? Why didn’t the larger Jewish community stop tolerating the thuggishness? I dunno … maybe it isn’t fair to ask the question like that. Because the current American elite thuggish establishment is probably only about 25% Jewish (which per capita is still huge). So maybe it’s like the WASPs maybe never properly reigned in their psychos either, and then these original psychos were joined by some Jewish psychos, that showed the original psychos how to run better cons and rackets?

    Anyways Mevashir – what do you think can be done? Should the effort to correct this, start within the larger Jewish community proper (like I have been insinuating in previous comments I made on this topic in other threads)?

    • Replies: @Mevashir
  192. anon[227] • Disclaimer says:

    Lets be real, the movement failed because it wasn’t a truth movement, it was an anti-Bush, anti-republican, anti-White movement. Once Obama, became president all those movements went away and morphed into pro Democracy movements, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Syria etc…Multiple places in Africa, Uganda and the Congo to name a couple.

  193. Trinity says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Wanna explain all the COHENcidences like Lucky Larry & The 5 Dancing Shlomos just for starters. Wanna explain 9/11 Lite aka The Lavon Affair. Same old story. You like like a rug. smdh. Now get down on your hands and knees and repeat “Thou shalt not lie” 5oo times. Better yet, write it out 500 times, once with the left hand and next with the right hand. Go ahead write it until hit “hoits.” I want 5oo good ones with each hand.

    Cue: No Easy Way Out by Robert Tepper

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  194. anon[325] • Disclaimer says:
    @Chris Moore

    Nope. It’s all about weapons and courage. That is your only resource.

  195. Mevashir says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Did you finally move to Israhell Fran? Or was it no fun living among a bunch of low class under-educated spartan Jews and you decided to move back to your leper colony off Long Island from where you can sucker the goyim with your obnoxious posts?

    https://www.vaxtestimonies.org/en/
    Did you meet any of these folks over in israhell? Or are they also anti-semitic conjurings of cyberspace?

  196. @Trinity

    Dude I do not have to explain anything. You are the failure, not me The Jews and Israel have never been stronger despite your lusting for “hands and knees”. Go Jerk off on some S & M porno. No one cares Jack about you and what you say. You are an ant among a thousand conspiracy ants that are dying .All up in smoke.
    9/11 truthers have gone the way of Holocaust deniers. Finished. There is no more Holocaust denial sites. The IHR site is dead. Mark Weber the editor of the defunct JHR said

    In January 2009, Weber threw the world of Holocaust denial into turmoil with the publication of an essay asking “How Relevant Is Holocaust Revisionism?” Weber’s conclusion, shocking to his colleagues on the radical right, was not very — that those on the radical right would do better to struggle against the real enemy, “Jewish-Zionist power,” than on a historical debate about the Holocaust that they were largely losing. The essay set off acrimonious attacks on Weber by many of his former friends and colleagues, but hardly reflected a move by Weber to the political center.

    All the big denies like Caroline Yaeger are looking for Jewish blood in Webbers family line. LOL

    These Jew hatred movements are dead. They live in people like you Trinity a small brained ant with a belief that you are on to something big.

    Now get down on your hands and knees and say that Jews are the greatest. lol

    • Replies: @Al Liguori
    , @Trinity
  197. Trinity says:

    “By way of deception thou shalt wage war.” haha. The days of “deception” are over. The WORLD KNOWS.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  198. Danindc says:
    @Dutch Boy

    That should be the case in the US as well. If your case gets brought to trial – you’re guilty. Courts are overrun.

  199. Danindc says:
    @Anon

    Articles like this and replies to the articles make me wonder about conservatives. Are these the people that say the voting machines were rigged?

  200. Mevashir says:
    @Wild Man

    Thank you for your interesting questions. What should be done? Well I have addressed this problem in other comments. I have written a long list of suggestions of how to disenfranchise the Zionist power establishment. I will try to find those old comments and send you the links.

    [MORE]

    Jewish people are very similar to Catholics who support the Vatican even when they are liberal and have left the church over sex abuse scandals, and yet almost invariably they support the Vatican as a historical cultural institution. Jews are the same way with Zionism. The most secular Jew out of fear will support the Zionist endeavor. Jews are raised from their infancy venerating the Zionist project. When I went to Hebrew school and we were learning the Hebrew alphabet there are two letters Zion and Gimmel that look very much the same except the Zion is written facing to the left and the gimmel is written facing to the right. You write the letter Zion from the right curving to the left. And the mnemonic we were taught is “you’re right if you’re a zionist”. This is the kind of messaging Jews are exposed to from the youngest age.

    I tell you the following at my own peril because I don’t want to have to live in Israhell. I lived there for 20 years and it’s a horrible place. It’s an elitist colony for Super Rich jews. Housing prices and other costs have exploded. There’s widespread proverty and unrest. It’s a sham democracy without a constitution. The courts make up cases as they go. It’s a racist apartheid vicious country that even though it’s 80% secular gives the ultra Orthodox Jewish jihadist rabbis total power over critical parts of the government. The Israeli State doesn’t even recognize the reform and conservative movements of Judaism that the vast majority of North American Jews follow. Yet these same Jews allow the Zionists to treat them like doormats.

    I have come to agree with the Holocaust revisionists that the Holocaust is a critical element in propping up the Zionist enterprise. The Holocaust narrative fills every Jewish person with dread. Imagine the worst slasher Hollywood Halloween movie and then think that this is the mentality that the average Jew has all the time looming in front of him. And this kind of hysterical fear forces these Jews against their better instincts and against their own value system to support Zionism.

    Maybe I’m making it too complicated. Imagine that it’s like a street gang. You’ve got an average Puerto Rican type guy who doesn’t want to be in a gang but when he’s told if he doesn’t join the Gang he’ll be left to fend on his own against The Black Gang then he reluctantly might join.

    So what you and all non-Jewish North Americans should do is the following:

    1. Use 9/11 truth to Brand Israel as a terrorist state. This allows you to circumvent the charge of anti-Semitism. You don’t even have to prove it in a court of law or with a grand jury. You can just enact policies based on the assumption that the Israelis were behind 9/11. Exactly what they did when they lied about bin Laden and Iraq and Afghanistan.

    2. Ban Israeli tourists from North America.

    3. Give the approximately 1 million Israelis working in North America 6 months to put their affairs in order and then deport them.

    4. Revoke dual citizenship privileges for Israelis.

    5. Pass laws prohibiting Jews from serving in any branch of the government, military, security or law enforcement agencies.

    6. Force all North American Jews to take loyalty oaths. If they express any sympathy whatsoever for Zionism, deport them. If you want to be generous you can pay for a one-way plane ticket to fly them to Israhell, on condition they will surrender their US/Canadian passport and their citizenship. Within 6 months 80% of these people will be begging to come back home, but do not allow them back under any circumstance.

    7. All rabbis, even the most liberal ones, should be assumed to be Zionists and should be deported.

    8. Revoke all tax privileges for donations to Zionist causes and organizations.

    9. Brand AIPAC a lobby group for a foreign government or better yet outlaw it as an arm of a terrorist organization.

    10. Close the American embassy in Israel and withdraw all American diplomatic staff. Close the Israeli embassy and its many consulates across North America and expel all of their staff members. These diplomatic decisions can be reversed only when the Israelis come clean about 9/11, admit their complicity, name their collaborators in the United States, and pay compensation to the United States and to the many Arab countries that we invaded attacked and destroyed following the 9/11 Zionist terrorist charade.

    11. Since the Israelis could never in a million years come up with the money to pay for the enormous damages inflicted on the world following 9/11, all of their assets should be frozen, just as we have done to the Islamic Republic of Iran. Israeli corporations can be banned from Wall Street which would be a devastating blow to their economy. Christian tourists can be banned from traveling to Israel by having the State Department list Israel as a no go Zone similar to Cuba or North Korea. All American tourists who go to Israel should be assumed to be tacit or overt supporters of Zionism and MoeSad/SheenyButt sayyanim. The US can announce that it will not allow any American back in the country who has visited Israel.

    12. Needless to say, Congressional five star luxury junkets to Israel should be banned as illegal foreign influence in American politics. All programs involving American police force FBI CIA and DHS cooperation with Israeli security organizations should be banned immediately.

    13. Ultimately the US should wash its hands of Israel completely. Sever diplomatic relations. Castigate Israel as a terrorist state. And invite Putin’s Russia to take over the whole portfolio. Putin appears to be the only world leader who is respected both in Israel and by Israel’s adversaries Syria and Iran particularly. Let Vladimir break his head over this issue. America should withdraw all of its military personnel from Israel should ban the sale of spare parts for all of its military equipment that it’s taken from us and should disengage totally.

    14. Of course our \$4 billion annual tribute payments to Israel should be terminated immediately. All of these steps should be predicated on the fact that Israel is a terror entity that was behind the 9/11 attacks. Sticking to that line allows Americans to avoid being smeared as anti-Semites. Forcing American and Canadian Jews to move to Israel will not be based on anti-Semitism but on the fact that their Zionist sympathies make them allies of a terrorist entity and untrustworthy in our societies.

    I’m sure there are many more steps that could be taken. This is just a starting point. Ultimately a way has to be found to remove the Jewish financial stranglehold over the American economy. Perhaps the Federal Reserve System has to be scuttled. I’m not sure what should replace it. It appears that Congress his privatized and outsourced it’s responsibility to create a money supply to the Federal Reserve, which is really a consortium of private investment bankers many of them located in Europe and most of them of Jewish extraction. I do believe that Woodrow Wilson when he enacted the Federal Reserve System and the internal revenue system back in the early 1900s destroyed the United States and I’m not sure if his decision is reversible.

  201. Ron Unz says:
    @Ron Unz

    To further expand on my point, let’s ask ourselves the meaning of “success” for the 9/11 Truth movement. I would argue that the primary definition of success would have been getting the mass electronic media to support the 9/11 Truth movement, which would be extraordinarily difficult if the owners of the electronic MSM didn’t want that.

    Let’s consider a thought-experiment. Suppose a decade ago President Obama had given a big speech firmly endorsing 9/11 Truth, and been seconded by his heads of the CIA, NSA, Secretary of State, and Chairman of the JCS.

    Wonderful! But suppose the MSM almost entirely ignored this development, and pretended it never happened, running a few biased and distorted stories buried on the inside pages, and then never mentioning it again. Maybe for a week or so, people would be talking about it, but gradually less and less, and soon 95-98% of the population would have forgotten about it. Certainly under those circumstances, Congress and the Courts wouldn’t have taken any follow-up action.

    Consider a different scenario. No one in high government office endorses 9/11 Truth, but the MSM does, running endlessly daily stories about it. Soon, 99% of the American population accepts 9/11 Truth, and the government is forced to come along whether it wishes to or not.

    That’s why I’ve always argued that the Media is the key target for achieving any major changes in policy. Here’s a short article I published a few years ago trying to outline my views:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-breaching-the-media-barrier/

    • Disagree: Mevashir
    • Replies: @Truth Vigilante
    , @Mevashir
  202. RestiveUs says:
    @John Johnson

    So who are you blaming—the truthers or the infiltrators?

  203. @Fran Taubman

    The Lurker is back. You know, all too well, “Fran”, that jewish men are obsessed with “Shiksas”, for VERY good reasons: noble Aryan nose, and exquisite Aryan carriage, The Most Beautiful Women On Earth…How does THAT feel “Fran”??? Understandably bad, as jewish females are rage machines with bushes a mile wide…. and those shnozzes!!!, Oy Vey!!! So “cock softening”!!! Thank “Adunai” for “Halacha”, otherwise there would be no jewish brats, zero, nada, zilch.

  204. @TKK

    Responmds to the author’s query:

    You ask why the 9/11 Truth movement failed.

    Because the implications are too horrifying for most of the populace to digest. It’s unthinkable.

    You are describing the dynamics of cognitive dissonance that is generated when a person apprehnds informatioin that conflicts with existing beliefs, informatiion or values that as person will seek to quell by various defense mechanisms that reduces or eliminates it. Denying the truth, relevance or accuracy of the dissonant information is the easieest way to do so.

    A critical flaw in the 911 truth movements approach has been that it was mainly was based on the expectation that just by presenting the public the facts will instantly get them to grasp the truth and take the necessary action to hold the culprits accountable, provinding the right ones can be identified.

    Except the perpetrators were way ahead of them by realizing that the best and necessary way to head that off was by immediately putting out a plausing official story that seemed to explain what happened, how it came about, who was responsible and what the public had to protects itself from ever being similarl;y threatened by forces that produced the event.

    Thus the official story explaining what happened, who did it, how it happened and what had to be done about was in the can and ready to be handed to the public before the first tower collpased. The narrative was so obvious. Hijacked planes were crashed into various building; building collapsed after planes crashed into them that started fires (except let’s ignore W7). Show the picture of the plane hitting the south tower and creating a huge fire ball over and over again on television to make sure the image was solidly implanted in the consciousness of every American as well as the rest of the world that would make them demand immediate action against the perpetratyors. The event was even planedn to happen on 911 which is the emergcy call number in the US so every mention of the event would automicatlly be a bell ringer for “emergency, emergency, emergency! Call the cops (i.e the feds) to protect us. And give them all the power they need to get the job done.

    The perpetrastors of course knew the media would sell the official story for all its worth from the outset. Hey, that’s what they did with the JFK, RFK, MLK hits, Gulf of Tonkin, etc. etc. ad nausum.

    Not only that, the threat the attack presented invoked everyone’s safety needs that is the second most propotent need Maslow identified that a person would do his utmost to satisfy when it was invoked that would instantly generate the response that “we must do something to protect ourselves.” And, of course, the perpetratrors were ready with the war on terror to prevent it from happend again that they were told would do just that.

    Once the official story is embedded in the public’s consciousness, telling the public the facts that refuted the false tale would never penetrate the public consciousness unless the information was presentd in a way that would create dissonance with the public’s belief about the official story that the public could reduce by being presented with a new way of seeing t hins that would do it.

    Enter Bernays and his classics on Propaganda and Crystallizing Public Opinion that describes effective techniques for doing just that.

    Unfortunately, the 911 truth movement is unfamiliar with his work.

    • Thanks: Mevashir
    • Replies: @Truth Vigilante
  205. RestiveUs says:
    @Zachary Smith

    And just what are those “perfectly reasonable standard explanations”? What causes multiple buildings to collapse so suddenly and completely, if not controlled demolitions?

    • Replies: @Zachary Smith
  206. @anonymous

    “The ‘nuclear weapons hoax’ since 1945, the ‘moon landings’ hoax since 1969…”

    Completely agree.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  207. @Chris Moore

    Take your Rothschild/Fed/Jesuit/Saquatch diversion somewhere else.

    In the modern era there breathes not one single “patriot” who would not let his children go hungry if it meant keeping his Jew -monoply entertainments, to the collective tune of a \$billion dollars per day.

    All this talk of fighting to the last drop of blood when in reality you will suck unwashed d1kc to keep your (((Netflix))).

    Do you see why they laugh in our faces? They’re at war. We’re not.

  208. @anon

    “CIA did 911.”

    Who do you think ‘owns’ the Intelligence Agency CIA? Perhaps the same folks who’ve always owned and controlled Intelligence Agencies.

  209. @Andreas

    Pentagon and Shanksville have been deliberately devolved into evidentiary quagmire to fatigue you by marching in circles.
    Solve WTC and you’ve solved 9/11. WTC is a walk in the park.

  210. In my view, the 9/11 Truth Movement failed because it spent so much time obsessing on why the towers fell and so little reporting on who knew in advance, what forces conspired to allow the attack to proceed, and who benefited. Follow the money!

    • Agree: Robjil, Mevashir
  211. @Fran Taubman

    Nice strawman arguments, Mr. Hasbara Dude!

  212. @Anonymous

    Ever hear of CGI? Ever watch a SCIFI movie? The info is out there.

  213. @schnellandine

    Schnell, you’re not just a fool, you’re a lazy argumentative fool.

    Here is commercial airline pilot Russ Wittenberg, speaking about the aircraft that was alleged to have hit the Pentagon on 9/11:



    Video Link
    Yes, you heard him right when he says that, based on the manoeuvres it was performing and its speed at that time, it would have been pulling 5, 6 or even 7G’s.

    I said that I recalled that the Air Traffic Controller[ O’Brien] said the aircraft was doing 400 knots. Meanwhile, nit-picking dickhead that you are, you said it was in fact 500 mph (which translates to 434 knots), so you carried on about how I was out by 34 knots like it was a major tactical victory for your side (ie: Team Zion).

    Can you see what sort of a clown you look like in front of the other readers ?

    The fact that the plane was 34 knots faster than my quoted figure of 400 knots only serves to further REINFORCE my case for the high G’s that it undertook in the corkscrew manoueuvre.

    But evidently you’re too dumb to see that.

    As for your assertion that the airspeed never went over 283 knots (I notice another comment here in this thread from someone who read the same Zio funded publication as you making a similar claim – seeing as the official government narrative insists that a 757 struck the Pentagon and they know this aircraft would exceed G limit loads above that speed), the cabal that perpetrated 9/11 are forced to use this artificially low airspeed to justify their case.

    I suggest you watch the 15 seconds from 1:32:45 – 1:33:00 in the video below and get an education:

    As the narrator states (and these numbers are sourced from official radar tracking):

    ‘The plane began its circular descent at 350 mph (304 knots) and then it kept ACCELERATING [ie: DURING this tight turn corkscrew manoeuvre] until it crashed into the Pentagon at 530 mph (460 knots)’.

    As you’ll recall, I estimated in my calculations that the aircraft might have been travelling around 450 knots – and this accords almost exactly to the 460 knots that it is recorded to have done.

    Of course, the highest G loads this aircraft pulled were not in the early stages of the tight radius turn when it was travelling at 304 knots, but in the latter stages as it was approaching 460 knots.

    Bottom Line: As far as Garbage In Garbage Out (GIGO) is concerned, you’ve dished it out in spades in your previous comments – hence your B.S outcomes.

    I’ve made claims that I can back up.

    Are you man enough to admit you don’t know shit about this incident and apologise ?

    I doubt it.

    • Troll: schnellandine
  214. @Abbybwood

    You wrote:

    What kinda got me was no plane crash in Shanksville.

    Not even a hole!

    No plane parts, no bodies, no luggage ….

    Actually, there was a plane crash in the vicinity of Shanksville – only it wasn’t in that little hole that was allegedly claimed to be the impact zone in the official narrative.

    The actual plane was scattered in a debris field 8 – 10 miles away (suggesting it been shot down mid-air and broke up).
    Watch from 2:30:00 to around 2:40:00 in the video below and learn what really happened:

    Now I’m not saying that the plane that was shot down was in fact the alleged UA93 with passengers and crew.
    The fact is that remotely flown drone replacement aircraft were used in the strikes on WTC 1 & 2 as well as at the Pentagon, so there’s every reason to suspect that the plane that was shot down in Shanksville was also a drone.

  215. @WinstonSmith

    “Those mentioned bring out some serious contradictions, but they all saw a plane.”

    Reasonable enough. But, if that’s the simple truth of the matter, why hasn’t all the video taken of that environment that day been released?

  216. @Mevashir

    I wholeheartedly agree with your 14 point plan.

    However, in relation to Point # 11:

    11. Since the Israelis could never in a million years come up with the money to pay for the enormous damages inflicted on the world following 9/11, all of their assets should be frozen ….

    let’s not forget that the Apartheid Israeli State and its Mossad were only ever PAID ACTORS that carried out the 9/11 False Flag just like they murdered JFK (along with traitorous goyim among the U.S government, military and Intel agencies), on behalf of a higher entity.

    Yes, the Israelis were the chief beneficiary but they were only allowed to execute this False Flag because the entity that controls the entirety of the western financial system stood to gain advantage and said cabal gave the Israelis permission to initiate it.

    The REAL PERPETRATORS of 9/11, the actual sponsor of the event, was the Zionist Usury Banking Cartel (aka the Zio cabal – a group of old and new money Jewish dynastic families who have a net worth that is, at a minimum, multiples of U.S GDP).

    Said usury cartel has more than enough resources to make restitution for the all the malfeasance they’ve inflicted on humanity over the last 200 years or so.

  217. @TheTrumanShow

    The cuckoo-clock hoax, since the 1730s (with apologies to Harry Lime).

  218. @Trinity

    The world has always known, hence the regular outbursts of rage and hatred. Just consult Bernard Lazare for the responsibility for the inevitable horrors and traumas.

  219. @Anonymous

    If the original planes and passengers were all spared, what happened to them?

    Nothing happened to them because they never existed in the first place. It’s all a misdirection of attention, like any magic trick.

  220. @Ron Unz

    You wrote:

    I would argue that the primary definition of success would have been getting the mass electronic media to support the 9/11 Truth movement

    I disagree.

    Those of us that are ‘Truthers’ know that the entirety of the western media is either owned or controlled by the Zio cabal and is disseminating disinfo 24/7 and as such it will never come clean with the truth.

    That’s why we pay no attention to it and source our information elsewhere.

    At the end of the day, the primary definition of success will be in convincing the dumbed down masses that they should NEVER PAY HEED TO WHAT THE MSM EVER SAYS and in addition pay no heed to politicians, Health Bureaucrats and representatives of academia or big corporations that are known to be working in cahoots with, and on behalf of, the Zio cabal.

    Only when the masses are getting all of their info from the KNOWN truth-telling sources of the world, the likes of The Ron Paul Liberty Report, Paul Craig Roberts, RFK Jr, LewRockwell.com, Dr Kevin Barrett, Michel Chossudovsky’s Global Research and countless more trustworthy venues (concurrent with abandonment of Facebook, Twitter, utilisation of Google as a search engine etc), will the movement truly be in a position to claim victory.

    Of course no one is right all the time but, to the extent that these venues will sometimes be in error on an issue, it will not be due to malice aforethought or the purposeful dissemination of disinfo.

    It will be an honest mistake or adherence to a sincere belief in a situation where they may not be privy to all the facts.

  221. @The Old Philosopher

    As always Philosopher, no disagreements from me regarding your thesis.
    In particular, when you wrote …

    the perpetrators [of 9/11] were way ahead of them by realizing that the best and necessary way to head that off was by immediately putting out a plausible official story that seemed to explain what happened, how it came about, who was responsible ….

    Put another way, taken from a Paul Craig Roberts article I read many moons ago:

    Having foreknowledge of news events that Washington orchestrates, allows Washington to control the explanation before evidence is available.

    By the time evidence is gathered, the narrative is established and the evidence ignored.

    .

    The word ‘Washington’ is of course a synonym for the Israel Lobby/Zio cabal controlled U.S government and the Zio owned MSM, seeing as they’re all subsidiaries of the same Vampire Squid.

    • Replies: @The Old Philosopher
  222. BuelahMan says:

    I wonder why a jew writing at a jew website would blame the skeptics inabilities instead of the obvious jewish control of the narrative and every means of information dissemination.

    It ain’t the jews, it is my terrible ability to reach the Americans who are made deaf and dumb by the jewish control of media and government.

    Right…

    I swear that jews are our greatest misfortune.

  223. EuroNat says:
    @saggy

    No it is entitled morons such as yourself and Fred Reed that have failed to grasp that it is not the job of skeptics to explain every detail of what really happened and who did it. There is simply enough evidence to not believe critical aspects of the 911 kosher fairy tale. Again, we don’t have to answer your moronic, childish questions.

    You are the equivalent of a Christian Zionist fanatic asking non-believers: “How was the universe created then, if it wasn’t God who made it out of nothing?”

    And some people in the know might speculate more or less and come up with some more or less well informed theories, but no serious fellow will be 100% certain and say “here you go, this is exactly what happened”

    Did you finally understand, and will you stop making a fool of yourself, signaling your unbelievable gullibility, ignorance and laziness on internet forums, you cheeky dim-wit?

    • Thanks: Mevashir
  224. @Nick Kollerstrom

    What the hell did impact into the Second Tower on that morning?

    Nothing at all. What was presented on the TV was just video fakery, CGI. Not even very good CGI.

    [MORE]

    After twenty years frankly none of us have much of a clue as to what brought the Towers down.

    Explosives of some sort. Which exact type (or types) is not really that important, any more than the exact firearm or caliber of bullet used to shoot JFK.

    Plus, no passenger plane wreckage existed at any of the four alleged crash sites.

    Well, this is hardly much of a mystery, Mr. Kollerstrom. It is for about the same reason that there is no elephant shit in my apartment. No elephant has ever been here.

    Similarly, there was no plane wreckage at the various sites because there were no plane crashes there.

    People like the highly-esteemed Mr Sabrosky, like Christopher Bollyn, and also M. Guyenot writing on this unz.com website, have called for a more immediate focus upon WHO did it, with less detail upon how it was done. Agreed!

    Well, on one level, they (and you) are right. Certainly the discussion of which exact explosives were employed to blow up the buildings is sterile. The important question is to understand that they were blown up. However, there are very basic questions about what happened the day must be addressed if one is ever going to get anywhere.

    If what we saw on the TV was real plane crashes into the towers, we have to ask who had the capability of getting real planes to fly into buildings. If it was video fakery, we have to ask the question of who could make a fake video (that’s a lot of people, I think…) and who could get that video aired on the TV in all the major countries (a much more limited group or political faction) and who could get the discussion of video fakery de facto banned in the main stream of the alleged 9/11 “Truth” movement more accurately called the 9/11 “Half-Truth” movement.

    Another taboo question in the 9/11 Half-Truth movement is any investigation of the reality of the victims. The controlled opposition 9/11 Half-Truth movement takes the approach of just going on endlessly about the demolition of the buildings and the reality of the plane crashes and the (nearly) 3000 victims are taken as a given.

    I think that it is these considerations that explain why the whole thing has so little transcendence.

    • Agree: Mevashir
  225. Anon[274] • Disclaimer says:

    The reasons that the 911 truth movement has failed:

    1 They have no hard evidence
    2 They are unwilling to consider alternative theories
    3 The full scope of the conspiracy is too large to imagine so they trim their theories so as to be palatable to the masses
    4 The lurking knowledge that the exposure of the conspiracy will probably mean the end of the US
    5 They are mostly American: you cant be a patriot and a conspiracy theorist
    6 They stop researching when they find enough to make a name for themselves
    7 They passively compete with each other for the prime position: every one wants to be that hero

    Prediction: The 911 truth movement will never achieve anything.

  226. @Laurent Guyénot

    If the purpose of the 9/11 Truth movement was to gather enough evidence to prove the lie, then it didn’t fail.

    Well, first of all, that was never the purpose of the 9/11 Half-Truth movement. Its purpose, like any controlled opposition construct, was (and is) to channel all the energy that should rightly go into uncovering the crime and exposing the perpetrators in directions that pose no threat to the criminals.

    Since that was always the goal, it was not at all a failure, as Mr. Sabrosky (incorrectly) states. On the contrary, it has been a roaring success.

    In 50 years, maybe, or perhaps much sooner. ….

    Well, something happening in 50 years or so would be testimony to their success in achieving their goals. The primary goal of this sort of controlled opposition movement is impunity for the criminals and the main strategy is to run out the clock.

    What are you going to do over fifty years after the event? Go after some senile old men in their eighties or nineties who had bit roles anyway?

    Besides, most ordinary people are much more interested in what is going down now than what was happening 50 years ago or more. Even something far more recent, such as Saddam’s non-existent WMD, they can simply admit that there were none and it has no real consequences. It was just a mistake. Hey, nobody’s perfect!

    It doesn’t matter because they got their splendid little war.

    Current-day historians can perfectly well admit that the U.S.S. Maine was blown up from the inside or that the Lusitania was carrying explosives, or that the U.S. authorities knew about the Pearl Harbor attack in advance. Or that Gulf of Tonkin incident never even really happened…

    If a handful of history buffs in 50 years know that the 9/11 story is false, yes, that does mean that the 9/11 Half-Truth movement was successful, but not in the sense you meant (I assume). Because that is its purpose: to run out the clock.

    And thus achieve impunity for the criminals… So, again, it is very successful.

    Three Cheers for the 9/11 Half-Truth Movement!

    • Replies: @Mevashir
  227. skrik says:

    If I may be permitted, a ‘duplicate input’ from the aging “Is the Tide Finally Starting to Turn on Covid” thread, since JFK, 9/11 and SARS-CoV-2 seem to be intimately related via villainy at the ‘highest’ levels:

    When Dr. Shi got the 1st SARS-CoV-2 genome read-out [showing the villain-inserted PRRA cleavage site], she knew exactly ‘what was up’ and immediately informed her govt.. So the CCP went ‘all-out fast and furious’ to successfully bottle-up then choke-off the biowarfare attack upon China (following their SARS-CoV-1 experience) – then sat back as the blow-back decimated the ZUSA/West. Of course, the ZUSA perpetrators knew very well that would come [airborne virus = no defence], but they were prepared and actually wanted it – to implement their pro-vax fascist oppression of their own populations. Proof is as we see it.

    In response to the JFK assassination, CIA[/Mossad] deployed ‘conspiracy theorists’ as a deep pejorative.

    Then came 9/11, CIA deployed ‘truthers’ as a deep pejorative.

    Now with SARS-CoV-2, CIA has deployed ‘anti-vaxxers’ as a deep pejorative.

    That’s not what Leunig was talking about, but the *mandates* to vax.When SARS-CoV-2 1st appeared, I wrote: “Mad if the perps don’t have an antidote;” perhaps ZUSA does, but of course 101% reserved for the ‘covert cabal = tyrannical rulers’ and a few of their ‘oligarch mates,’ all psychopaths.

    As a counter to the ‘anti-vaxxers’ propaganda-ploy I propose ‘pro-vax fascists’.

    • Replies: @Wild Man
  228. Mevashir says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    Good to see you back JR. Another point of the movement is to demoralize us with the naked power and aggression of our enemies. They use the movement to flaunt their satanic corruption in our faces. This is the boot stamping in the innocent person’s face at the end of Orwell’s 1984.

  229. Mevashir says:
    @Ron Unz

    Consider a different scenario. No one in high government office endorses 9/11 Truth, but the MSM does, running endlessly daily stories about it. Soon, 99% of the American population accepts 9/11 Truth, and the government is forced to come along whether it wishes to or not…. That’s why I’ve always argued that the Media is the key target for achieving any major changes in policy. Here’s a short article I published a few years ago trying to outline my views:

    Ron, have you ever heard the old Russian joke about the Soviet Union, concerning their two main newspapers, Pravda [truth] and Izvestiya [news]. The joke goes: THERE’S NO PRAVDA IN IZVESTIYA AND THERE’S NO IZVESTIYA IN PRAVDA. [Hope Iris doesn’t object to my translations!]

    That’s a good description of our MSM here in the Unconscious States of Awareness. It is totally controlled by the ((Deep State)). I’ve read that every major news media editor answers directly to the CIA. That’s why the FOX news cameraman told me 15 years ago in Boulder Colorado: Everyone in the media knows 9/11 is a whitewash and coverup. But the ((media owners)) in NYC won’t let us report the truth.

    The media is irredeemable. They have an agenda and they stick to it. It’s called “sticking it to the American public.”

  230. Alan Sabrosky blocked me on FB when he could not consider alternate evidence. That is very strange indeed. I agree with Alan on just about everything, but here he is being closed-minded.

    I want to get to the truth. The reason we are so divided is because we have only a tiny fraction of the documentation.

    Alan brings us a supporting witness who said:

    I personally led the first Arlington fire engine up to the perfectly round smoking 4 ft hole in the wall. the hole fire went out, then the Pentagon wall collapsed about 60 yards away

    The first hand held private videos show a much wider removal of the first floor.

    Lots of debris can be seen in these videos. It’s a matter of camera angle and perspective.

    Did all witnesses see the same things? Examine the same areas? At the same time? Of course not. We must carefully dissect these statements and attempt to put them into a rational understanding.

    Have a civil discussion and examination of all available evidence. Weigh evidence like a juror.

    I don’t know exactly what happened. I am open to learning everything possible before coming to a conclusion.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @skrik
  231. @TheTrumanShow said “…why hasn’t all the video taken of that environment that day been released?”

    Exactly! I have been trying to get them, but met fierce non-cooperation.

    Like they really don’t want to learn all the facts. Like they are afraid they might have to walk back some published conclusions.

    The agencies are withholding many records. We have a duty to examine everything.

  232. @WinstonSmith

    Perhaps you are open minded enough to consider the following which I have just posted with some accompanying comment as a reply to one of Ron Unz’s comments on his own article marking 9/11’s 20th anniversary. It is, as I said, from a parallel universe but certainly far more credible than most truthers

    Watch “Saudi Arabia’s Role in 9/11 and Why the U.S. Government has Kept it Hidden” on YouTube

    • Replies: @WinstonSmith
  233. skrik says:
    @WinstonSmith

    It has been pointed out by others; one should concentrate on the 1st level, almost to the exclusion of all else. In this case, that *no* 757 caused the ‘wound’ in the pentagon. In the case of WTC7, *no* ‘collateral’ damage could have caused the vertical, symmetric etc. 2.x secs free-fall collapse, other than the virtually instantaneous [allowing for micro-, even nano-second delays] – removal of at least 8 storeys of vertical-support – by conventional explosive, ‘controlled’ demolition. As for WTC7, so WTCs 1 & 2; det-cord embedded in the floor-slabs fully accounts for the pyroclastic clouds, and cutter/flipper charges for the rest.

    ‘No planes’ has a similar place to ‘no DEW, no dustification and no nukes,’ [what I spent a lot of time and effort on, fighting trolls]; these are all *2ndary* considerations *and form distractions* which are simply not needed. The only ‘no plane’ was the hole in the Pennsylvania field, there really was no plane there.

    The absolute minimum is:

    1. WTC7 was ‘control’ demolished [requiring ‘privileged’ access, ditto WTCs 1 & 2], ergo

    2. 9/11 was an ‘inside job’ (followed by a corrupt&venal MSM+PFBCs coverup).

    3. Some covert cabal within ZUSA dunnit. [Is it really so hard? The *worst* is accepting that yes, our tyrant-rulers actually are sooo bad.] finito

  234. @Truth Vigilante

    As always, you have it exactly right.

    And once they get it our in front, cognitive dissonance protects it against the truth.

  235. @Alan Sabrosky

    I have just watched this 2020 video that I came across by chance

    Watch “Saudi Arabia’s Role in 9/11 and Why the U.S. Government has Kept it Hidden” on YouTube

    If you take the credible seeming lawyer at face value you could easily end up thinking most 9/11 truther stuff on The Unz Review and elsewhere was confusing distraction organised by the \$50 million a year PR and lobbying campaign for Sausi interests. Comment?

  236. @Wizard of Oz

    Can you give us a synopsis of this video?
    I have tried to share declassified records with Kriendler and gotten nowhere.

  237. @Ron Unz

    Can anyone think of any major conspiracy/cover-up that was ever revealed by the MSM, at least before generations had gone by and everyone involved had been dead for decades?

    Good question.

    What scares me even more is when the government/MSM finally _admits_ they were guilty and then just promises they will never ever ever do it again promise….here is one….

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/confirmed-the-us-census-b/

  238. Moral of the story we as so owned by Israeli Zionist forces ( on behalf of Illuminati forces? )

    Where was Uzi Dayan on 9/11?

    https://www.rediff.com/news/2003/sep/10guest.htm The India-Israel-US Nexus

    September 10, 2003 Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon’s visit to India will reinforce the strategic ties between India and Israel within the broad framework of a US-Israel-India alliance.
    If it was just a coincidence that India’s National Security Adviser Brajesh Mishra was closeted in his office on September 11, 2001 with his Israeli counterpart Major General Uzi Dayan discussing ‘joint security strategy,’ when the attacks on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon occurred, it is calculated scheduling that brought Sharon to India during the second anniversary of the attacks.
    India and Israel were among the few countries which enthusiastically applauded President Bush’s declaration of the war on terror with its famous injunction ‘with us or with the terrorists.’ While Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee, in his letter of October 2, 2001 to President Bush, eloquently mixed obsequiousness towards the US with hawkishneess towards Pakistan placing cross-border terrorism in the framework of the war on terror, Sharon got on its bandwagon, declaring that ‘Arafat is our bin Laden.’

    Where was Bennett during 9/11 time frame? How Convenient

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naftali_Bennett

    Bennett moved to the Upper East Side of Manhattan in 2000 to build a career as a software entrepreneur. In 1999, he co-founded Cyota, an anti-fraud software company, and served as its CEO. The company was sold in 2005 to RSA Security for \$145 million, making Bennett a multimillionaire. A stipulation of the deal allowed the Israeli arm of Cyota to remain intact. As a result, 400 Israelis are employed at the company’s Israeli offices in Beersheba and Herzliya. Bennett has also served as the CEO of Soluto, a technology company providing cloud-based service that enables remote support for personal computers and mobile devices in 2009, at a time when he and partner Lior Golan were engaged in raising funds for myriad Israeli technology startup companies. Soluto had hitherto raised \$20 million from investors, including venture capital funds Giza Venture Capital, Proxima Ventures, Bessemer Venture Partners, Index Ventures, Michael Arrington’s CrunchFund, and Eric Schmidt’s Innovation Endeavors and Initial Capital. The sale of Soluto for a reported \$100–130 million to the American company Asurion was finalized in October 2013.

    • Replies: @ImaBotKnot
  239. @RestiveUs

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_of_the_World_Trade_Center

    As you know, Wikis are usually a better ‘road map’ to sources than they are actual explanations, but the basics seem to be on view here.

    A big airplane moving fast has quite a lot of energy. The impact does a lot of local damage, destroying some supports which puts stress on remaining ones.

    The planes had plenty of jet fuel, and the fires were aided by tons of plastic and wood and wood composites in the furniture and other office materials. At some point the chemical oxygen generators were going to kick in and assist those already raging fires.

    https://science.howstuffworks.com/transport/flight/modern/question258.htm

    Aluminum melts fairly easily. In my small brush fires I’ve accidentally melted aluminum ‘soda’ cans into smooth flat blanks. So the airplane’s aluminum body melts in the same fire which has weakened the already stressed steel beams. The pools of molten metal start moving around.

    https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/44163/did-molten-aluminum-pour-from-the-wtc-towers-before-they-collapsed

    At some point they encounter water.

    https://hackaday.com/2020/12/30/water-and-molten-aluminium-is-a-dangerous-combination/

    The resulting explosions weakened the structures even more, and probably caused a local collapse. Which was all it took, for the resulting “pancake” forces from each floor were beyond stress limits for the remaining sound parts of the Towers.

  240. @EliteCommInc.

    I am not convinced that the event was an inside job.

    If I had to pick one clear, easy to read and well-documented book that might convince you, it would be this one:

  241. @ImaBotKnot

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/mossad-spy-chief-on-9-11-we-realized-rules-for-fighting-terror-had-to-change/

    Sept. 11 2021
    When American Airlines Flight 11 struck the World Trade Center’s North Tower on September 11, 2001, then-Mossad chief Efraim Halevy was in the middle of a meeting with then-prime minister Ariel Sharon.

    “It was preceded by three major events: The first two were when two US embassies were attacked in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam,” Halevy said, referring to two nearly simultaneous bombings by al-Qaeda in Kenya and Tanzania, respectively, which killed more than 200 people in Nairobi and 11 in Dar es Salaam.

    “The other was an attack on an American naval craft off the coast of Aden,” he said. In October 2000, members of the group sailed a small boat packed with explosives up to the USS Cole off the Yemeni coast and detonated their charges, killing 17 US sailors and injuring dozens more.
    Note – or did Israel or forces coerced by Israel attack US Embassies and another US ship, like they did the Liberty. ?

    Halevy was a staunch defender of then-CIA chief George Tenet who came under fire for failing to anticipate and prevent the attacks, writing an article in his defense in The Economist after the 9/11 Commission released its damning report on the matter in July 2004.

    Remembering that the Economist is a direct Rothschild controlled Mocking Bird Media source.

    Anyway, Yeah “That’s the Ticket” and “that’s MY STORY and I am sticking to IT” So does Halevy work for the people of Israel or the Globalist Illuminati. Is Halevy the Allen Dulles ( HINT – he was Illuminati ) of Israel???

  242. Chris Moore says: • Website
    @Zorton the Cruel

    Jew -monoply entertainments

    The MSM and Hollywood? And where did they get the wealth and connections to buy that monopoly? The Zionist network. The same Zionist network that now controls the Fed, and has to varying degrees since its origins in 1913. (Not coincidentally, right before the big wars of the 20th Century started).

  243. eD says:

    The question some commentators asked above about what happened to the passengers and crew on the planes if there were no hijackings is a good one.

    However, conspiracy theorists have addressed this. Do an internet search for “vic sims” (this also applies to other mass murder events), or search unz.com on the Revulsky essay essentially arguing that stewardess Betty Ong is a fictional character.

    I’m not endorsing the argument, but essentially the argument made by the no planes and no hijackings types (these are not quite the same) is that the people on the passenger lists published in the media (the official ones are apparently still classified) are a mixture of spooks given new identities, completely made up people, and actual people that died in September 2001, but for various reasons the people putting this together could plausibly claim they died on the planes.

  244. Trinity says:

    The Jewish role in attempting to GENOCIDE Whites in their own nations. Babs Spectre and other Jews have admitted to all their evil intentions. WHY are not these people being charged? These people are just as guilty of rape and murder as those who actually carry out the deeds themselves. Was not Charles Manson convicted of murder even though he didn’t physically murder anyone. Then what the hell is the difference. People like Spectre and Soros have blood on their hands. Of course don’t hold your breath waiting on someone in Washington with the balls to go after these people.

    The Jewish role in what is happening to Whites in South Africa. Hell, the Jewish role behind BLATANTLY ANTI-WHITE (((organizations like BLM and Antifa))), organizations that have murdered innocent civilians as well as police officers. Where are the arrests. WHY is George Soros not indicted?

    The Jewish role in the assassination of JFK? Be interesting to hear what Oswald might had said had he not been shot by Jacob Rubenstein. IF I remember right was it not a Jew who shot Huey Long? Sheesh, these people really get around do they not.

    The Jewish role in instigating war on Germany.

    The Jewish role in the Holodomor, the greatest act of genocide in recorded history.

    The Jewish/Israeli attacks-false flags etc. like USS Liberty, WTC on 9-11, the Lavon Affair where the Jew was caught red handed. I am sure others to could list many more Jewish/Israeli false flags, attacks against innocent people, etc.

    And last but certainly not least. IMO and in the opinion of many others this SCAMdemic aka PLANdemic was MANUFACTURED by the (((usual suspects.)))

  245. Wild Man says:
    @skrik

    “As a counter to the ‘anti-vaxxers’ propaganda-ploy I propose ‘pro-vax fascists’.”

    I like the term ‘vaxxo-fascists’. But yes, … rhetorical devises do have their place, within our efforts. On another passage of your comment:

    “When Dr. Shi got the 1st SARS-CoV-2 genome read-out [showing the villain-inserted PRRA cleavage site], she knew exactly ‘what was up’ and immediately informed her govt.”

    Yes ….. I am quite sure Dr Shi knows what is what, one way or the other, with respect to the probable origins of sars-cov-2. So why doesn’t the CCP release Dr. Shi’s sealed research records, that would reveal what you said (if it’s true) ….. to help out the rest of the world’s populations to see the truth of what has befallen them? It would be immoral not to do so – yes? Unless the CCP are immoral globalists at heart too (wishing to dominate the world just as the western globalists do wish and try for)?

    Look – I don’t necessarily want to bash China and the CCP ….. but this has been bugging me right from the very beginning. Somebody knows what is what. When you look around as to all the personalities involved …. Dr. Shi is the most likely person to be in a position, to put the truth of it all together. And the CCP won’t make public her most recent work of the critical time? Why not? There is no good reason I can think of ‘why not’, and so one starts wondering about ‘bad (immoral) reasons’ – no?

    • Replies: @skrik
  246. Al Liguori says: • Website
    @Fran Taubman

    All the false flag disguises of Jews are quintessentially talmudic—derivative of the deceitful exhortation of Moed Kattan 17a that teaches Jews that when they do evil, they should disguise themselves, then do their evil “in a place where they are not known.” Their “Torah” (Talmud) is full of such instructions to do evil against Gentiles providing there is no blowback on the tribe.

    There is considerable evidence that Israel planted the explosives that took the WTC down free-fall.

    When their only evidence is “Jew hate,” you know they are desperate.

    https://judaism.is/false-flags.html

    “I want to call your attention to the artist groups (GELATIN & E-TEAM) who were selected to be part of the Lower Manhattan Cultural Council (LMCC) World Views / Studioscape programs that allowed them and other artists to work and live in the WTC in the four years leading up to 9/11 on different floors, including 91 and 92 of the North Tower. Additionally, they were given seven day a week construction access to the WTC that allowed them to freely move all sorts of materials in and out of the complex.”—including boxes of BB18 electrical bombfuse holders.

    9/11 and the Israeli Bomb Expert Infiltrated Art Groups: GELATIN (demolition wiring team) and E-TEAM (sol-gel EXPLOSIVE TEAM)
    https://steemit.com/conspiracy/@budz82/9-11-and-the-israeli-bomb-expert-infiltrated-art-groups-gelatin-demo-wiring-team-and-e-team-sol-gel-team

    Prosecute them all, including accomplices like Fran who try to hide their guilt.

  247. Al Liguori says: • Website
    @Fran Taubman

    Remember when Fran insisted she has “always been respectful when posting”? https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/israels-war-criminals-in-their-own-words/

    Just another Jew lie.

    Fran’s consistently foul mouth (see the meme) epitomizes the pervasive perversion of Judaism, the evil tree that bears evil fruit. https://judaism.is/perversion.html

    • Replies: @Mevashir
  248. Wild Man says:
    @Mevashir

    Thanks for your thoughts on this Mevashir. I haven’t responded yet because I have been pondering more about it, and need more time to mull over these ideas of yours. Wow ….. that is far more draconian than I think it needs to be, in order for us to get back to ‘true-west’, ….. but maybe I have to think that through more. However …. your points as to normalizing relations between the U.S. and Israel (i.e. – no special status anymore) as such forcing Israel to stand on it’s own two feet in it’s Middle East neighborhood …. which would force Israel to begin to normalize relationships with it’s neighbors ….. yes ….. the sooner the better on these strategies.

    But as to your other more draconian points, I was hoping the larger Jewish community could find a way to correct this, from within, so then perhaps we could avoid mistreating any American and Canadian citizens of Jewish heritage, unnecessarily. Is there no changing the overall Jewish cultural gestalt (at least for those Jews residing outside of Israel)? You said that the holocaust industry has been used to terrorize the larger Jewish community as well. Don’t the majority of Jews, then, perhaps mainly unknowingly, have a common enemy with the larger communities of the nations they reside in, ….. and that common enemy is top-tier Jewish psychos that are terrorizing everybody, one way or the other, including the larger Jewish community? If so, shouldn’t the efforts start, by way of Jewish operations within the larger Jewish community, …. informing the larger Jewish community of all the cultural lies and perversions they have been subjected to?

    Also Mevashir, another thing that confuses me, is that, at 15 million worldwide Jews, but with those of Jewish heritage represented at around 25% of the globalist/technocratic set …. this means I think, the each Jewish person on average, is far far more likely to actually know a member of the globalist/technocratic set, than any other ethnicity, whom will all be most likely 1oox more removed from this globalist/technocratic set (on average), than you average Jewish person. So what doesn’t sit right with me, is this: We know the Ashkenazi Jews are particularly intelligent. So, if they have the necessary resources to sort out the quandary (the quandary of being terrorized by globalist Jews in their midst) … i.e – the resources of both intelligence + superior intel ….. then why has this not been resolved ages ago?

    • Replies: @Mevashir
  249. Mevashir says:
    @Al Liguori

    Remember when Fran insisted she has “always been respectful when posting”? https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/israels-war-criminals-in-their-own-words/

    Just another Jew lie.

    Fran’s consistently foul mouth (see the meme) epitomizes the pervasive perversion of Judaism, the evil tree that bears evil fruit. https://judaism.is/perversion.html

    Fran posted last Spring that she was intending to move to Israel in time for the Jewish New Year, which was over one month ago. I suspect that her plans were interrupted for some reason and she is venting her frustration on the rest of us.

    Fran is not a typical Jew. She supports Chabad, but she is not Orthodox in practice. She is a very angry soul trying to defend her people but apparently unable/unwilling to join with them.

    This is very typical for American Jews, who will fight for Israel but fight to the death NOT to have to live there!

    Most Orthodox Jews would never resort to the vulgarity Fran employs here.

  250. Trinity says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Well now Frannie, come, come, come. I have seen your “artwork” and there is nothing “great” about it. IF I can remember right you gave us all a glimpse of your artistic “abilities,” something that you were obviously proud enough to share a picture. smdh and lol. I actually couldn’t believe you call yourself an artist. Even Hunter Biden’s “artwork” might be better than yours Frannie. ROTFLMMFWAO. You and Hunter would have a hard time receiving a C in a third grade art class. haha. Only I am not joking, I am dead serious.

    Repeat after me, Frannie. THOU SHALT NOT LIE. THOU SHALT NOT LIE. THOU SHALT NOT LIE. Okay, 497 more times without stopping. GO

    • Replies: @Mevashir
  251. Iris says:
    @Al Liguori

    9/11 and the Israeli Bomb Expert Infiltrated Art Groups: GELATIN (demolition wiring team) and E-TEAM (sol-gel EXPLOSIVE TEAM)

    Indeed. The Gelatin “Art Group” was used as a cover by the Israeli military operatives who planted the Twin Towers with explosives (most likely nanothermite) to simulate the fake “plane” attacks.

    Nano-thermite was undisputedly found in the dust collected at several locations of the WTC, and its nature demonstrated by spectrometric analysis. At the time, it was a military-grade explosive under secret development, and available only to the US and Israel.

    Gelatin/Gelitin and the Israelis cynically mocked the 9/11 victims, by ironizing on the way they would meet their atrocious death.

    In this original drawing produced by the “Gelitin B-Team”, one can see on the bottom left of the bedrock plot onto which the Tower is anchored, an entry hole jokingly labelled “secret military action“.

    This “secret military action” entry hole represents accurately what the Israelis did to your compatriots: they moved nuclear charges from WTC7, through underground tunnels, under each Tower and blow them up. The people inside were disintegrated alive.

    This is the Zionists for you: not only they are evil, but they enjoy boasting about their depravity to the face of their victims.

    9/11 was a crime against humanity of unprecedented horror, the third nuclear mass massacre of civilians after Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    Similar to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it is now part of the collective history of humankind. Even if Americans are silenced about it, it will never be forgiven by other human beings worldwide. Peace-loving people will not give up on the memory of those 3000 innocent fellow humans dustified by Israel.

    The reckoning of 9/11 is inescapable.

  252. skrik says:
    @Wild Man

    So why doesn’t the CCP release Dr. Shi’s sealed research records, that would reveal what you said (if it’s true) ….. to help out the rest of the world’s populations to see the truth of what has befallen them?

    Try looking up the word inscrutable. Or perhaps, put your Q to NIH/Fauci/Ecohealth, or review some history; try researching EVALI, say or see some early work [here, look for “1st mentioned by Levtraro”] and dig around a bit, here’s the associated diagram:

    • Replies: @Wild Man
  253. Mevashir says:
    @Wild Man

    I appreciate being able to discuss these things with you here. Thanks for your patient questions and good will.

    [MORE]

    Please understand that I have no official standing in ANY community. The Zionists, the Jews, and even the Christians have all rejected me, for different reasons.

    But as to your other more draconian points, I was hoping the larger Jewish community could find a way to correct this, from within, so then perhaps we could avoid mistreating any American and Canadian citizens of Jewish heritage, unnecessarily. Is there no changing the overall Jewish cultural gestalt (at least for those Jews residing outside of Israel)? You said that the holocaust industry has been used to terrorize the larger Jewish community as well. Don’t the majority of Jews, then, perhaps mainly unknowingly, have a common enemy with the larger communities of the nations they reside in, ….. and that common enemy is top-tier Jewish psychos that are terrorizing everybody, one way or the other, including the larger Jewish community? If so, shouldn’t the efforts start, by way of Jewish operations within the larger Jewish community, …. informing the larger Jewish community of all the cultural lies and perversions they have been subjected to?

    I can only speak from my own experiences, in which cases the answer to your Qs above is NO! Jews cannot emerge from the mind control to which they are subjected. I am unusual in that regard. When I originally converted to Christianity while still living in Israel, my hope and dream was that the teachings and example of Jesus would permit Jews and Arabs to coexist respectfully in Israel. I looked forward to a single binational state of Messianic Jewish and Arab believers. But that has not happened and seems very far from reality.

    I worshipped with many different Messianic congregations in Israel after my baptism (in the year 2005, my last year there). Almost all of them adhere to the fanaticism of American Evangelicalism, meaning mindless denigration of Islam and Arab culture, mindless veneration of Zionism and Zionist leaders like Netanyahu and Sharon (who were almost completely secular). They are coopted tools of the larger Christian-Zionist-Globalist agenda, so far as I can see.

    There is only one Messianic organization in Israel that has ever reached out to Arabs. They held a conference in Christian Nazareth and were reviled by other Messianic groups for doing so. They also have zero respect for the more traditional forms of Christianity of the Palestinian Christians who are mainly Greek Orthodox and Maronite Catholic. In this they follow the standard anti-Catholicism of Reformation Protestantism.

    As far as dealing with North American Jews, I propose a simple loyalty oath. Ask every Jewish person the following and gauge their reaction: If the United States/Canada were forced to go to war against the State of Israel, would you be able support this? This was the very question I posed to myself back in 1982, when I was weighing two alternative paths for my life: joining the US military or moving to Israel. At that time President Reagan had proposed the AWACS arms sale to Saudi Arabia and American Jewish groups were outraged. I asked myself if the US went to war against Israel, where would my loyalties lie? And I decided I would support Israel. And then I told myself: If that’s how you feel you must move there and follow your convictions.

    I think this is a very simple way to discern the loyalties of Jewish people. Of course Orthodox Jews have no problem lying under oath to Gentiles, so maybe my test is naive. But secular Jews don’t know about these Talmudic kol nidre deceptions and might be more candid.

    When I moved to Israel I didn’t know anything about the true history of the region, Holocaust Revisionism, and the many other issues discussed here at TUR. I was naive and responding to shear emotionalism. Over time I regretted my decision and moved back to the USA.

    Regarding Israel in general, if you believe that they staged 9/11 then you must respond forcefully. It doesn’t matter what their intentions were (eg, Waking the Sleeping Giant, etc). Force is something they respect and they fear. This is why they hate Hitler so much, because he demonstrated implacable opposition to them and wouldn’t pander to their vanity.

    Remember this is how the Israelis themselves behave. When Iran continues to develop its nuclear program, they assassinate scientists with impunity. When a single Palestinian stages a terror attack, they destroy the family home, bulldoze the village, and exact terrible collective punishments. This unfortunately is the only language they understand. And the more we hesitate to respond to their abuses in kind, the more emboldened they become to abuse us more and more.

    It’s like a guy on a date with a girl. They sit in a dark movie theater. He puts his hand on her knee. She doesn’t protest. He inches his hand up her thigh. She says nothing. Soon enough he is molesting her in the dark.

    I think all men are prone to behave this way, but Israelis are particularly notorious for their lack of respect for civilized norms. They have a horrible reputation in Turkey and Cyprus where they go for cheap vacations.

    As for the ability of Jews to reject their own psychopathic leaders, very very few demonstrate the fortitude to do this. As cruel as the Jewish groups are to Gentile Revisionists, they are perhaps more cruel to Jews who dare to question the official dogma. Look how Dershowitz destroyed the career of Finkelstein, who was about to receive a tenured position at DePaul Catholic university! I myself have been subjected to withering scorn and defamation by Jewish and Zionist groups. The average Jew is a prisoner of his society and doesn’t have the gumption to reject the Gestalt and find something better. So, no, in my view you cannot expect the Diaspora Jewish community to police itself.

    Three examples: I shared some Revisionist information with my father, who claims he lost 80% of his relatives in the Holocaust. His response was anger, calling me a nazi-sympathizer, insane, evil etc. Eventually he disinherited me.

    A few months ago I met a Jewish person at the local Senior Center. She teaches a meditation class. We talked about spirituality and I told her I am a believer in Jesus. We even had lunch together and she seemed genuinely interested in my views. Then she invited me to her synagogue for a teaching by their new rabbi, a woman recruited from Boston who had run the Harvard Hillel. I was hesitant to go but eventually decided to accept her invitation. During the teaching there were about 20 people sitting around a large table, having coffee and snacks, and listening to the rabbi discuss the weekly Torah reading (about Jacob fleeing from his brother Esau and eventually marrying four wives in far away Mesopotamia). I asked a few questions, as did others. I said nothing about Jesus or Christianity. I thought all was well.

    Late Sunday night I was awoken by pounding on my apartment door. Three heavily armed police officers were there demanding an explanation for why I had threatened the rabbi the previous day! I was in my pajamas half asleep and hardly knew what they were talking about. This was shortly after the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting, so Jewish communities were on the alert. After about an hour of harsh questioning they left and told me others would be following up with me. Eventually a month later I was informed that the rabbi had dropped her charges against me and they closed the file but I had a restraining order forbidding me to go near the synagogue. And all this time the person who had feigned friendship towards me and invited me to the discussion in the first place was nowhere to be found and unwilling to make a statement in my defense (even though she sat at the same table I had that Saturday morning).

    Another time I attended a Holocaust event at the local university. I asked the Hillel director who was running the event why the fire-bombings of German and Japanese cities were not considered part of the Holocaust narrative. She turned white with rage, started shaking, and snarled: Only Jews have a right to use that word! and then summoned security to evict me.

    So in my experience Jews, with very rare exceptions, are not capable of freeing themselves from the insidious mind-control exerted over them by their supremacist masters.

    Unless America casts off the Zionist shackles, her only other hope is to be conquered by Russia or China and liberated from the enemy within. But that of course will impose a very alien culture upon us that most Americans will not want.

  254. Wild Man says:
    @Al Liguori

    Wow …. that art project angle is so strange.

    Maybe this is what can and should happen. Texas goes on it’s own (quits the federation). Members of U.S. special forces residing in Texas, are now members of the newly minted Texas special forces. Texas special forces, do a covert op, in Israel …. identify and kidnap the Jewish art project people now residing in Israel …. take them to an undisclosed location, torture them until they confess. Videotape the confession. Use that to restore the federation. The federal government is moved from the DC cesspool, and is then set up in either Dallas or Houston.

    Probably a pipe dream to speculate on such an unlikely sequence of events. But something has got to give here.

  255. Mevashir says:
    @Al Liguori

    Prosecute them all, including accomplices like Fran who try to hide their guilt.

    Deporting them to Israhell is a far greater punishment than anything we could give them in America. The last place they would want to live is in Boca by the Med, a rich Jew’s paradise with skyrocketing cost of living, raging poverty and inequality, growing religious fundamentalism, sham democracy without even a constitution, courts that invent case law as they go. Israhell is essentially a military dictatorship with a privileged caste of Adelson/Epstein rich scheissters and whoremongers and a proliferating international mafia of drug dealers espionage agents assassins and political operatives. A demonic hell on earth.

  256. @Al Liguori

    Charlie Kirk’s Full Speech in Jerusalem

    I am not anti-Jewish. Most of us are just against Globalist Wars and the Governments of Countries who serve the Globalist Illuminati…. The Intelligence Agencies, Politicians, Military Industrial Complex of Countries like the United Kingdom, United States, Israel and Saudi Arabia ( the top of the Government actually works with Israel ).

    Read Albert Pike’s plan for 3 World Wars, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, The Controversy of Zion by Douglas Reed and you will see that the people of Israel were put there to serve a Globalist/Satanic plan. Many Jewish people died with all sides being financed by Rothschild operatives during WW2.

    The Illuminati wanted Jews and Arabs to be placed into a situation to have to fight each other.

    It is a FACT that the UK operatives US operatives both Republican and Democrat, Israeli teams that planted the Special Atomic Demolition Munitions in the towers and all the dual US/Israel people involved and components of Saudi Arabia Intelligence did 9/11/ Therefore the Government of Israel is not the friend of the people of the United States or people of Israel

    I do not think we can trust TRUMP I wish it was not so. and the Democrats are EVIL remember there is a lot of play fighting between the political parties.

    • Replies: @Mevashir
  257. @Mevashir

    It wouldn’t work : first of all even if Israel were to cease to exist, as predicted as probable and desirable by Henry Kissinger, the Jewish Question would remain more pregnant than ever : this would revert Jews to their more traditional opinion that the land promised to them is the whole Earth, not that tiny strip of semi-desert between Egypt anf Jordan. Even if you declare Israel to be a terrorist state, and prohibit American Jews to relate to it lest they lose their citizenship, most of these American Jews would just jettison Israel and make America their terrorist state. USSR was for a long time a worse Jewish terrorist state than Israel despite the fact it considered Zionism nearly as treasonous as antisemitism.

    The sad truth is that Israel is the US’ very soul made visible on the map, America being the body.

    Let us suppose some president, Ben Franklin II, as a thought experiment, has succeeded in getting elected and has come to that conclusion that Israel is a terrorist state wreaking acts of terror against the US. Let us suppose he is Jewish and even religiously so, so as to fend off all blame of antisemitism, and has come to the conclusion that Israel has been destroying Judaism as well as America.

    What you will get is a second civil war this time ending with a victory of the Secession and the rapid end of US. The separation between soul and body is called death and the US would instantly turn into a corpse and decompose. It would actually be a suicide.

    As soon as Ben Franklin passes his second and third executive orders Trump (or Pence) summons all the Evangelist Churches to oppose them and keep these Israelis on their premises even under threat of martyrdom. Most of the media compare those two executive orders to two worse Nuremberg laws. A few days later, 14 American red states refuse the application of these decrees on their soil. California, despite being blue, also declares itself to be a sanctuary state.

    [MORE]

    The fourth executive order is actually universal : dual citizenship are made illegal. If you don’t solemnly renounce to the other nationality, you lose the American one, get a short tourist visa and must leave thereafter. The US is expelled from the UN and the latter move to the former SDN building in Geneva, and is denounced for its retrograde position as an enemy of humanity. Having several nationalities is decreed to be a fundamental human right like deciding upon your sex. Just to embarrass the US Mexico decrees that all people of Mexican origin, even partial and distant, are still Mexican by nationality, and Canada does the same for all anglo-saxons and blacks.

    The fifth executive order is impossible to implement as Jefferson, Hamilton, Ben Franklin were Jews and that the original sponsors of the Founding Fathers were all Jews. The only way to make it constitutional is to force Jews to be part of the one allowed Jewish-American synagogue which rejects Zionism and Jewish racism. But even that is denounced as discrimination. Ben Franklin II is forced to apply it to all religions : there will be an American Catholic Church, an American branch of Islam, of Baptism… America is denounced as the most totalitarian country in the world by all religious leaders. The Secession is declared by 22 red states, plus California, Hawai, and Alaska, that proclaim their own independence.

    The loyalty oaths are rapidly interpreted as a divorce between the US and humanity.

    The rabbis all move to the secessionist states and declare America to be Amalekia. All evangelist preachers follow them. The Secessionist states are building walls, though the war is still cold.

    When the tax privileges for the Zionist organizations are revoked, Israel together with its numerous allies declare economic war on the US together with commercial sanctions. The court that decides about these sanctions is that of Paris. Most cargos refuse to deliver food and merchandise to the US. Most Jewish enterprises start a policy of burned earth : they have vast real estate and they destroy everything unless they are allowed to join a nearby Secessionnist state.

    As AIPAC is outlawed by executive order, both main parties are dissolved and cease to exist. Only a fraction of the former Democratic Party still exists. The US is a one-party state, denounced as such internationally. France’s Macron solemnly declares : outside Israel, there never existed such thing as democracy.

    When the US embassy is closed in Israel, nearly all countries close theirs in the US and only the Secession is acknowledged as the legitimate America. The problem is that the Secession is an ultra-Zionist Born Again Christian theocracy now called Gilead. Trump is emperor and declares war. Moreover the US is full of Talibans that have come uninvited to approve of that ultra-anti-Zionist country as well as of authentic nazis from South America who also approve. It is impossible for the US to do without them as they are a few millions. Many Jews acting under false flags pretend to be German nazis and turn the US into a real violent nazi regime no matter what the President says. Since there is a war going on, thir help cannot be refused.

    One year later both the US and the CSA have divided into warring kingdoms after Ben Franklin II, the last president, has been toppled by a real antisemitic Nazi from Belgium, Karl Degrelle, and gassed as a Jew. Meanwhile Israel has inherited from most of American armament delivered to them by the Secessionist states and conquered a territory going from Alexandria (Egypt) to Koweit included through most of former Syria and Irak, comprising also parts of Saudi Arabia. Of course a great majority are non-citizens but their lot is not nearly as bad as it used to be in Islamic Koweit. Most inhabitants are manpower from the Indian subcontinent who all convene they are, despite their frankly admitted sub-human status, far better treated by Jews than they were by the Emirati.

    • Thanks: Mevashir
    • Replies: @Mevashir
    , @Mevashir
  258. Mevashir says:
    @Francis Miville

    This is a very clever convoluted comment that ends up elevating Israel even more than before my plan to punish her for attacking the US on 9/11. I have to assume you are a pretty clever sayyanide for MoeSad/SheenyButt.

    Either that or you’ve overdosed on too much Israeli ecstasy.

    Give my best to your 8200 buds in Netanya.

    • Disagree: Mevashir
  259. Mevashir says:
    @ImaBotKnot

    Wow imagine Charlie Kirk sucking up to Jews. Thanks!

    Therefore the Government of Israel is not the friend of the people of the United States or people of Israel.

    I would say that no government is the friend of its people. The job of every government is to distract the masses from their resentment at their oligarch abusers with racial religious and ethnic strife and directing their aggression against foreign adversaries.

  260. Mevashir says:
    @Francis Miville

    I just scanned some of your other comments on this site. I retract my accusation that you are some kind of Israeli agent. I apologize. It seems you genuinely are a French superintellectual and polymath. Shalom et Aurevoir

  261. anon[325] • Disclaimer says:

    You can’t lie forever. Kennedy was killed from the front, Oswald was behind him. I have looked at the video hundreds of times and read a lot about it from various sources. It does not make sense that Oswald could have killed him from his position. Even that the media lost, as there is even today a huge portion of the American public who don’t believe in the Warren Commission whitewash. But we will all die pretty soon and the ‘official’ story will live on.
    Same thing will happen with the ‘official’ version of 911. We are mere mortals but the outlets who oppose us live for hundreds of years. They will wait us out and then impregnate millions of innocent mortals with the new ‘Truth’. Who can do that? The same people who control the media. Not just the Main Stream Media, they also control the ‘Alt’ media and use it as a steam valve to control dissident media commenters.
    The internet is not what it was even 30 years ago when there were genuine avenues of dissent available.
    We are now stuck with the the same advertisers who controlled and ruined TV in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s.

    • Replies: @anon
  262. anon[325] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    CBC Canadian Broadcasting Corporation is no exception. Most of their ‘content’ is complete horseshit liberally laced with infomercials for books which basically agree with the government about just about everything. Or maybe even friends of the CBC. It is tiring to say the least.
    I am going to listen to some Paul Butterfield because at least he was a genius.

  263. Druid55 says:
    @JWalters

    We can only hope. Though they’re slithery

  264. @WinstonSmith

    Here is what I appended to the other thread aimed directly to Ron.

    It is about an hour long but I can imagine someone taking a lead from an apparently honest hugely well informed lawyer focussed on Saudi Araabia’s involvement with 9/11 and treating the truthers and UR stuff on a different, Israel oriented version of 9/11 as running interference organised by the \$50 million a year lobbying and PR campaign he estimates Saudi Arabia is paying for. He is, BTW, as adamant as anyone on UR that the US government has been lying and Pres Obama behaved disgracefully, as well as Bush, and, though peripherally, Trump.

    Early motives apart from covering up agency failures included US still needing Saudi oil before fracking, Bush wanting immediately to go after Saddam Hussein, Obama needing to buy off Saudi opposition to the Iranian anri-nuclear deal, Khashoggi murdered because he threatened to expose Saudu Arabia’s part in 9/11 [Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman is said to have been too young to have known what the Wahabii line Royals got up to in the late 90s**].
    **The Wahabi establishment was said to have been greatly boosted when the Shah was overthrown and all the Saudi Rorals could see the fanatical mobs coming for them. Salmon has been cutting back the Wahabists power but it is suggested that the true story of involvement with ObL may not even be known to him.

    You may enjoy sampling it and responding to Ron’s own petulant adolescent reply and teasing or taunting him to comment on it.

    I may myself get round to replying to point out that, while he is, obviously, very immature emotionally, I don’t think that is why he attempts to insult me with words that he knows and has frequently proved by his own words are not believed by him. I think he wants to take umbrage and stop commenting because he knows I am adding to the spread of incredulity where he doesn’t want it, and that’s not including those not so well disposed persons who have dismissed him as a crank long ago. I am just about to consider adding him to the list that some of my nearest and dearest are on of those whose very high IQs are not sufficient protection against extreme foolishness. But I have a,soft spot for someone who has done so much good and prompted so much activity which keeps the little grey cells buzzing.

    Anyway have a look and see what fun you can have with it if you are not one of the considerable majority who treat their beliefs in everything from the IPCC AGW disaster thesis (which might be as true as all the shamans and priests teach, but for most has to be tribal belief by faith) to any or all of Ron’s conspiracy theories as part of their identity.

  265. @WinstonSmith

    Oops! HE wants ME to take umbrage….

  266. Mevashir says:
    @Trinity

    Her website is entitled THE ART OF FABRICATION!!! https://www.frantaubmanstudio.com/

    [MORE]

    This picture of her is rather flattering:
    https://d3m2o2bzrl719s.cloudfront.net/photos/2012/05_May12/21/Ralph_Pucci_Collaboration/Selected/gallery_634732436992876250741107_59_PUCC1_20120521_MAC008.JPG
    Jeff Quinn, Fran Taubman, Ted Abramczyk

    And this piece isn’t half bad. Not my style but not completely ugly. Maybe it could go in a White House bathroom? https://ralphpucci.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/medium_ft_furnM_7.jpg

    • Replies: @Trinity
  267. Nobody believed the ‘troofers’ version of events because it’s bat shit crazy and literally propagated by people of such low intelligence that one would think they are some lost ancestral species of humanity that should’ve died out in prehistoric times.

    • Replies: @Al Liguori
  268. Trinity says:
    @Mevashir

    She’s no Bullet Bob Ross. LMAO. “Lets paint some happy trees.” And Bob put more people to sleep than Ambien. “Lets try some titanium white. Put in some more happy trees. It’s your world, have fun with it. ”

    Good ole Bullet Bob wasn’t greedy in his world, he even shared his nuts with squirrels. Bullet Bob is the Babe Ruth of ASMR.

    Fran-Fran needs some more Bob Ross in her life. Hell, the whole world could use some more Bob Ross. lololol. RIP Bobby.

  269. Wild Man says:
    @skrik

    skirk – I am not grasping the implied meaning of your comment #256? I don’t see how these early efforts (dating from April/20) to try to isolate patient zero (I think that is what they are attempting, with respect to the early phylogenetic network analysis – no?) …. would alleviate a moral necessity, for anyone involved with respect to potential bioweapon engineering knowledge of sars-cov-2 (including the CCP) from letting the entire world know what they know, about origins, so that we may come to know what the bioweapon designers, were attempting, human-pathogeniety-wise, with their virus mods (even if the actual specific gain-of-function work was done outside of Wuhan) …. Dr. Shi was so intimately involved in everything regarding bat coronavirus => human coronavirus, …. I am quite sure she would be the best well positioned to know, above anyone else (excepting the actual culprits if it wasn’t her).

    • Replies: @skrik
  270. peterAUS says:

    Mr. Sabrosky, I have a question for you (I guess you ARE watching this thread).

    Some of us had pretty much enough of being..ahm…”informed and educated”. Nothing wrong with that IF leads to some sort of meaningful action in real life. My take, anyway.

    [MORE]

    I’ll use the methodology from that stage of yout life when METT-T meant something.
    Like, one ex-military to another (or so I say; easy to play roles on Internet, I know).

    Your article is like post-action report.
    “We had a mission, we tried and we failed…” sort of type.
    “We failed because of this, that etc.”. Lessons learnt sort of thing.
    O.K.

    Now, “we” have another mission. As YOU said “..impending disaster…”.
    I guess the mission would be “prevent impeding disaster”.
    It could be something else, but let’s stick to it for the moment. Some version of hara-kiri, for example, in some extremes (“won’t be taken alive” sort of desperation).
    Let’s be positive.

    We know what/who the “enemy” are; we pretty much know who/what the “troops” are. Same for “terrain” and “time”. No need to nitpick/split hairs there.

    So, my question is simple:
    What is YOUR “Commander Intent”?

    Or, in civilian lingo:
    What’s the plan A? What’s the plan B? And what’s the plan C?
    Say…”this is the plan A; still pondering details of plan B; won’t say what my plan C is:)”.

  271. RodW says:
    @schnellandine

    Back in the 90s when I used to play video games a lot, I played with Microsoft’s flight simulator. Using the Cessna, I tried taking off, circling, and landing. I could always take off successfully, but I never succeeded in landing. So instead, I tried flying the plane into the Sears Tower, which looked easy. I never once succeeded at that either. Assuming the program was at all realistic, those manoeuvres are actually very challenging for untrained pilots.

    I don’t think the Truth movement failed or is dead. If nothing else, it has educated a lot of people in the ways of analysing important events.

    • Agree: TitusAlone
    • Replies: @skrik
    , @schnellandine
  272. skrik says:
    @Wild Man

    A ‘conventional’ sign of respect is to accurately quote ‘noms.’

    I am not grasping the implied meaning of your comment #256

    Did you do what I suggested, i.e. research EVALI, dig around Forster et al.? – no? I suspect not [would you fear finding enough rope, perhaps?] I suspect that you may be just a lazy, ignorant dilletante blow-in looking for trouble, a proof of which being your snide attempts at impugning Dr. Shi/CCP.

    [MORE]

    Let’s assume that Dr. Shi is, as she appears, ‘on top of her task’ = knows every pertinent detail of the GoF developments [all shared with Ecohealth], such that when she saw the ‘new to her’ PRRA insertion, she nearly fell off her perch = she saw an irrefutable indicator of aggressive attack upon China. What would you do? Screech to the world: “We are under biowarfare attack!” – thus prompting the CCP to ‘push the button’ initiating a nuclear war, as @Sean seems to want? [In an alternate scenario, namely in your snide intimations, IF Dr. Shi/CCP had released it, accidentally or on purpose, THEN would they ever admit such? – no? This particular proposition seems to be a pointless waste of blog-bandwidth – eh?]

    A clue to Forster’s results can be seen in the PNAS diagram; the ‘the trail’ from bat to A (often found in US, Aus) to B (the main Wuhan version), passes through two ‘equal’ precursors, one 100% Chinese and one 75% US. Hmmm; but worse, with the low numbers in his sample, Dr. Forster found one of the few As 50km away from Wuhan. Hmmm again.

    Did you investigate EVALI? – no? Why not?

    “CT scan of the chest showing diffuse lung infiltrates found in three cases of vaping-associated pulmonary injury”

    Quote:

    Symptoms can initially mimic common pulmonary diagnoses, such as pneumonia, but sufferers typically do not respond to antibiotic therapy.[4] Differential diagnoses have overlapping features with VAPI, including COVID-19

    [my bolding]

    Posit: Some covert cabal within the ZUSA rogue-regime ‘spiked’ a batch of [mail-order?] vaping product with a prototype of SARS-CoV-2, without the PRRA insert, to test it on ‘live’ subjects [the active agent being delivered direct into the victims’ lungs, with some success, see images, but not on any elderly with co-morbidities, themselves unlikely to vape, say.]

    Do you think Dr. Shi/CCP would let out the tiniest ‘peep’ to provoke the ZUSA mighty Wurlitzer? – no?

    • Replies: @Wild Man
  273. skrik says:
    @RodW

    I don’t think the Truth movement failed or is dead. If nothing else, it has educated a lot of people in the ways of analysing important events

    Right on; my experience was always two-track, a) the search for the truth and b) battling the vicious, anti-fact trolls [promoting DEW, dustification and/or nukes, say].

    We are enjoined, IMHO rightly, to stick to the absolute, critical minimums, illustrated in my #236 above, starting at

    “The absolute minimum is:”

    Specifically: 1) WTC7 = pre-loaded ‘controlled’ demolition [requiring ‘privileged’ access], hence 2) inside-job then by inductive reasoning 3) ‘perps’ = some covert cabal within the ZUSA rogue-regime.

    Aside: Note here, that it is the US-intel/security-complex (i.e. CIA, FBI et al.) whose exact job it is to detect/prevent events like the ‘standard narrative’ 9/11 attack against America. EITHER 1) critical components of the US intel-plex were ‘in on the deal’ OR 2) the whole US intel-plex is shown to be hopelessly incompetent. Recall that a ‘part-time’ [haw] task of the US intel-plex is to ‘detect/protect’ against an incoming nukular attack. So take your pick; 1) or 2)?

    Be that as it may, there always were and still are ‘peripheral issues,’ one of the main ones [which you have addressed here] being ‘how could amateur pilots actually hit WTCs 1 & 2?’ – and an even more pertinent Q: Given that the non-level-angle of the putative aircraft-collision wounds indicated banked approaches? Here, note that only the ‘hottest’ of ‘top-gun’ jet-jockeys, namely some a/c-carrier pilots, can successfully fly a curved approach. Well, the solution to this particular Q occurred to me long ago = quite earlier on, namely IF there were hijackers and WHETHER they were at the controls OR not, THEN the way to hit the towers, and especially at a chosen floor [even more especially if the a/cs were drones], would be to program the auto-pilot/navigation system to ‘aim’ at the desired ‘impact location,’ then at the appropriate moment, press to ‘GOTO’ button. rgds

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  274. Sparkon says:
    @skrik

    THEN the way to hit the towers, and especially at a chosen floor [even more especially if the a/cs were drones], would be to program the auto-pilot/navigation system to ‘aim’ at the desired ‘impact location,’ then at the appropriate moment, press to ‘GOTO’ button. rgds

    And then all the plotters needed were magic airplanes made from indestructible aluminum and capable of flying through steel…

    • Replies: @skrik
  275. skrik says:
    @Sparkon

    Yeah, I know [me extemporising]; you are ‘preaching to the converted’ [in plain text: I reject ‘Alu plane through WTC steel wall’ like knife through butter AND I accept that the videos of such are fake] – but with all due respect, ‘no planes’ scares the horses [“I saw it on TV!”] and @RodW’s Q still has a suggested ‘theoretical’ A. rgds

  276. Wild Man says:
    @skrik

    [This is NOT a Covid thread, and such comments are likely to be trashed. Keep it up, and all your comments elsewhere may also get trashed.]

    • Replies: @Wild Man
  277. Wild Man says:
    @Wild Man

    Go back and look at the exchange between skirk and I, on this thread. skrik started it. And you let him get last word. Good job.

  278. Jugbuster says:

    Read The Unseen Hand by A Ralph Epperson and SEE how the world really turns. I called 911 for the FARCE it was as I watched the 1st building fall for the very 1st time ! ! What makes me wanna’ puke now it every time 911 is mentioned in public and or on TV or some kind of stream to “Never Forget” we should be Never Forgetting that all the public evidence of how this occurred and who did it is complete and TOTAL BS of the highest order ! ! Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth-thats their website too- (all the guys and women who make those buildings and create the materials to construct them) were all choking with disgust at the BALONEY that was perpetrated upon the American people as to how this occurred. Embrace The Horror…….It’s been going on Way before WW1, WAY………

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  279. @RodW

    So instead, I tried flying the plane into the Sears Tower, which looked easy. I never once succeeded at that either. Assuming the program was at all realistic, those manoeuvres are actually very challenging for untrained pilots.

    I suspect a bad frame rate, if on an older PC. Flying into objects is extremely easy. Some early flight simulators used empty squares as virtual obstacle courses or ‘instrument approaches’ (fly through the squares), and those were easy too.

    Just a reminder, the alleged 9/11/2001 pilots weren’t untrained. Based on what data I’ve seen, the alleged flights were well within their alleged abilities. The standard misapprehension of non-pilots, and some pilots, is that every task related to flying, especially in an airliner, is art beyond the grasp of those not anointed by… whatever. Pure delusion. Some things in aviation are done easily, in rare cases better, by outsiders. That many pilots don’t recognize this is pathetic turf insecurity.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @Iris
  280. @Skeptikal

    It is reference to the Ellen Mariani case. She was widowed on 9/11, and was the only family member to refuse the government’s settlement, and took up a case under the RICO act.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2003/12/9/9-11-widow-wants-bush-in

    Her case was dismissed, and her lawyer censured by the court – I think in 2013 (the approximate date given in the article seems incorrect, but there may have been several filings in different courts.) It is very difficult to find any information about this case on line. It has gone down the memory hole.

    Ellen Mariani herself has since died, apparently of unknown causes. Her family declines to comment, and sound thoroughly intimidated.

    https://marianilawsuit.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/ellenmarianideath-510.pdf

  281. There is a simple reason why the “truther” movement failed. It was not and is not one movement but is hopelessly divided into multiple competing and mutually exclusive groups and hypotheses. For instance:

    1. There was no plane, it was all done by controlled demolition, the plane images are holographic.

    2. There were no planes, there were missiles.

    3. There were planes but they were remote controlled.

    4. As 2 or 3 above, but it was still done by controlled demolitions.

    5. (And the one that is consistently attacked by the proponents of 1-4 above, which is highly interesting because they don’t attack each other) The planes were real and the hijack plot was real. The hijackers were set up by the zionists and/or the CIA with covert encouragement and looking the other way, because the zios (certainly) and the CIA (probably) wanted the attack to go ahead to provide an excuse for the wars they longed for. Four hijacks and kamikaze attacks would be enough to provide a casus belli for the war anyway, and that the damage was so great was a fortuitous coincidence, whether or not it was helped by controlled blasts. (This hypothesis even has precedent in the Pearl Harbour raid and before that in the sinking of the Lusitania. It is always easier and better to steer those you want to make your enemy into doing what you want them to do than create a false flag by yourself out of whole cloth, but the damage may be greater than you bargained for.)

    As I said, and as the responses to this comment will probably again prove, this hypothesis 5 is anathema to other “truthers”. You’d almost think that they’re afraid that it might be real.

    • Thanks: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @Iris
  282. @Jugbuster

    I called 911 for the FARCE it was as I watched the 1st building fall for the very 1st time ! !

    Aha, you are one of th self anointed expert witnesses I had in mind when providing Ron with the YouTube videos of “controlled demolitions” I posted yesterday. I invite proof of your expertise. My comment was

    In case you haven’t kept up with the latest on your favoured truthers obsession with “controlled demolitions” that were so obvious for most of them from day 1 I decided to do a Google search for “what does a controlled demolition look like”.

    I have looked at the following videos and it is not at all obvious to me that the collapse of the WTC buildings looks like controlled demolition.

    I draw particular attention to the several levels at which small puffs of smoke indicate explosions. Also the sounds of explosions which are clearly NOT the kind that only first responders reported in the WTC buildings. If the WTC Towers had been brought down by controlled explosions there should be evidence of them being heard quite a long way away and also records on numerous recording devices

    [MORE]

  283. @Wizard of Oz

    As I added in my comment to Ron

    I don’t suppose this will prevent repetitions of dubious factoids about no steel framed building having been brought down by fire or total ignoramuses quoting the melting point of steel. But it may help.

  284. How did it fail? It failed no more than trying to get the truth out about all their other countless lies “failed”. They bought up the media, the education system, the politicians, so they keep it all as quiet as they can.

    • Agree: TitusAlone
  285. @Wizard of Oz

    Oh, and from the very first video you posted there are clearly heard the sounds of explosions occurring inside the buioding before there are any outward signs of the explosions.

    That is exactly what fire fighters were saying they heard before the major explosions occurred that brought the towers down.

    In fact, the squibs of smoke exiting from the building look exactly like the ones visible in the videos you posted.

    You are, therefore, either incapable of apprehending or comprehending what the video you posted clearly establishes about how controlled demolitions happen that is exactly what the WTC takedown ;looked like exceot that much more explosive force was used to bring down the towers than was needed for the ones being shown in your vidoes that expolains the diffrences between them or,you are plainly engaining in decpetion, micrepresentations and lies about what they show to bolster the official story.

    • Agree: Truth Vigilante
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  286. Well, the only people who really have to believe(in public) the official story on 9/11 take their paychecks from the Federal and state governments. What anyone else believes; doesn’t really matter.

  287. whodat says:

    The strategy that the deep state used/is using to crush discussion of alternative narratives about anything, 911, climate, holocaust , vaccine and COVID19, … ,election fraud in 2020, …
    is to flood the discussion on line, with hypothesis and assertions that are threadbare and almost absurd, which will cast all alternative theories in the a negative light for the casual reader. (operation mockingbird …) To combat this, the people who want to get a fair shot as the truth being presented, need to throw some of these crackpot theories under the proverbial bus on their media outlets, but there is a reluctance to do that because some think acquiring allies, even crackpots, put there on purpose, is in some way a win- it’s not. Give everybody a fair hearing, but we can’t winnow out the chaff if we fail to realize the false accounting going on for articles against and for some established controversial view. Ignoring is not enough sometimes, but be careful. Sometimes some extreme theory deserves respect. sometimes not.

  288. Anon[203] • Disclaimer says:

    You can’t expect much from a culture that is born subscribing to Santa Claus lies. They have been engrained to think Jesus died for their evils. And that there won’t be any accountability.
    Mossad’s execution of 9-11 should have been a wake up call.
    You guys subscribed to the phony WMD and coyote planes dissapearing into the babylonian twin towers whilst your intuition should have kicked in and told you something is not right.
    9-11 should have been the litmus test for truth but you conveniently ignored it. You looked the other way due to cognitive dissonance.
    You followed Bush’s order to go on a spending spree with more credit card debt jacked up with high interest to feed the satanic cabal instead.
    With all these bogus wars on terror and non-ending hoaxes you have unwittingly supported the Zionist Satanic push for one world disorder.
    At this point, all you can do is repent for your sins and start fighting back the criminal enterprize who are in charge of orchestrating all these bogus war on terror, creating these monstrous, diabolical, sinister ISISraHELL with the help of al-CIA-da and MOSSAD.
    Alternate would be to sit back and enjoy bigger fireworks than 9-11 coming near you whilst they prepare greater IzraHELL for the coming of their Yahweh, The Anti-Christ dajjal who will globalize his reign of terror from Jerusalem.
    Either way buckle up for a roller coaster ride with some of these demonic, totally psychopathic, diabolical, sinister, pathological liars and corrupters of mother earth. You reap what you sow.

    There is a lie. Then there is a BIG LIE. Then there is 911. Santa Claus is beyond a LIE. Tel LIE vised 911 EvangeLIED are being taken for a ride by way of Deception to think Jesus Christ died for their Evils. Everyone shall have to account for deeds, either good or evil to enter Paradise or eternal abode in Hell fire.

    The infuriating thing about 9/11 and the multitude of lesser false flags which both preceded and followed it is that, although most Americans know it was as phoney as a three and a half dollar fed reserve note, everyone seems content to put up with the extremely phoney “war on terror” it was designed to create and which has already destroyed a hand full of countries in the world, caused the murder of upwards of two million people, mostly using U.S. military, and turned the U.S. into a ruthlessly insane police state wherein everyone is made to obey patently unlawful statutes in the name of “emergency” while the ruling elite has quit obeying any laws at all while gathering a massive military presence to cow the now restless and resentful public. – See more at:Christopher Bollyn: The Man Who Solved 9/11

  289. Iris says:
    @schnellandine

    I suspect a bad frame rate, if on an older PC. Flying into objects is extremely easy.

    Everything is easy for the completely clueless and the Hasbara imbeciles: it is called the Dunning-Krueger effect.

    The Twin Towers were narrower than an airport’s landing strip: there is a BIG hint in this information, that even Hasbara profound imbeciles should be able to comprehend.

    Trying to hit a Twin Tower with a plane was actually tested on professional flight simulator , by a seasoned instructor and very experienced professional pilots. They used a Boeing 737, an aircraft smaller and much more manoeuvrable than the B767 that allegedly crashed onto the WTC.

    Despite many attempts, the only way they managed to hit the target Tower was to slow down the plane at landing speed, in the range of 120-180 mph compared to the 530 mph the UA175 was supposedly flying at.

    In the “Pilots for 9/11 Truth” film. From 28: 00 in the video:

    • Replies: @schnellandine
  290. Iris says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    There is a simple reason why the “truther” movement failed. It was not and is not one movement but is hopelessly divided into multiple competing and mutually exclusive groups and hypotheses.

    Nonsense. You got it all wrong.

    Since you choose the standpoint of plausibility, the only reason why the American 9/11 movement failed to bring justice is because there are not enough professionals, engineers, physicist and pilots, willing to speak up collectively against the WTC “plane attack” delusional tall tale, and to lose their job and/or their lives in the process,

    • Replies: @skrik
  291. Iris says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Aww, how impressive.

    The all-time champion of Hasbara stupid triviality finally has had an idea: controlled demolition also produces dust, hence there could not have been explosives at the WTC. Hear, hear !!!

    You are replying aside the question and your answer is therefore entirely irrelevant, as usual.

    Explosives detonating in the basement of the Twin Towers were reported by eyewitnesses long before the “planes” even allegedly struck. These testimonies were deliberately ignored, but are proven to be true by the fact that they injured a maintenance technician working in the basement.

    The eyewitnesses to explosions were in a large number, over 100; yet they were ignored by the official narrative.

    “In all, over a 118 NY firefighters claims they heard explosions – yet their testimony is not addressed in the official report.”

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1176853/9-11-mystery-conspiracy-theory-controlled-explosions-terror-attack

    Similarly, explosives detonating in/around the lobby of one of the Twin Towers got these people covered in dust long before the Tower collapsed.

    Even you should be able to work the causality out: dust and explosions were witnessed before the collapse by over a 100 people, many of whom were captured on camera, and can be watched by the esteemed UR leadership to the day.

    Your relentless but grotesque effort at obfuscating the real facts of 9/11 proves only one thing: that Israel was into it up to its neck, which is why die-hard militant Zionists like yourself feel obliged to step up in defence of the hackneyed lies every-single-time.

  292. skrik says:
    @Iris

    G’day. I gave my posited solution to the navigation/tower-collision problem above; just search for the 1st GOTO. rgds

  293. @The Old Philosopher

    Your reply is a bit muddled. Perhaps you might care read what I wrote and help with the points I had already mentioned that seem to interest you..

    You and I refer to the explosive sounds but you do not explain two things. One is why nothing was recorded or heard of them outside the WTC buildings if they weren’t just something like molten aluminium and water mini explosions. Also how the rigging for controlled demolition would have worked in the Towers.

    I am puzzled also by your references to the puffs of smoke. Can you direct my attention to anything comparable in the WTC videos?

    • Replies: @The Old Philosopher
  294. @Iris

    Hey! What about Saudi Arabia?😎

    And what’s this bit of incoherence about

    You are replying aside [sic] the question [what question?

    ]

  295. @Iris

    Always puzzling to watch the aero-ignorant spout off. And I know your routine. After I waste 90 minutes rebutting your drivel, you assert victory because ‘language trouble’ and retreat like a turtle, to be heard from only after you figure the memory of your performance has dissipated.

    Something practical you may wish to consider: Throwing around the hasbara cliché has a specific effect on the implied target regarding what he then knows about you. You have given me useful information, and I thank you. Now multiply that by what I know regarding this subject and you do not. Throw in that video as well. Then look into Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect and all the subjects about which you croak here.

    • Thanks: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @Iris
  296. cassandra says:

    Out-Thought, Out-Bought, Out-Fought

    To mix metaphors, there’s a steamroller in the room. Media control can deflate the best of efforts, the most convincing evidence, the worst atrocities; it can inflate trivial to the monumental and create evil from good.

    In the face of blatantly unconstutional and corrupt election practices, the narrative was created that those who documented such events were spreading disinformation. When citizens peacably assembled for a redress of this grievance, the media portrayed the Stop the Steal Rally as a violent insurrection.

    Even in the face of doctors’ reports of success with early outpatient treatments, the media has convinced many that the CDC’s recommendation, that inaction is an appropriate treatment for COVID until hospitalization becomes necessary, is sensible. Despite proven effective prophylactic measures, we’re to believe that only the vaccines give hope.

    I know people who believe that WMD’s were found in Iraq, or that the vaccinated can’t spread COVID.

    The media has unabashedly convinced many that organizations like the Trusted News Initiative or Good Information Inc., openly espousing an agenda of censorship, really will preserve democracy.

    All you need to do is go to one of the “fact-checking” sites to see how convincingly lies can be proclaimed . Straw dogs, personal assassinations, and derogatory comments so easily warp perceptions of reality. Control is so easy when you have the platform.

    So: the problem is not with the strategies or actions of the truth-tellers of 911 (or of American Pravda). They do provide all the properly irrefutable evidence to the public. They do target the proper audiences. They have even aroused incendiary political reactions. But healthy political reactions are being effectively snuffed out by a propaganda campaign that makes the absurd appear reasonable, that makes court malfeasance seem sensible, and that portrays political repression of our secret security organizations as protective.

    • Agree: Iris
  297. @schnellandine

    Iris is such a sad case. No one quite like her on UR. She is a desperate Muslim trying to gather it all together into one universal false flag. The Jews are setting up the Muslims to look like murders when it is really the Jews that are the killers. The 9/11 story is way past her ability to reason. I have told her that there were literally millions of eye witnesses that saw those planes hit the towers, but Iris still thinks it was some fancy simulator in the sky that created an illusion of an aircraft from 360 views of airplanes at the end of an Island with two states New York and New Jersey in view, as well as all the burrows in New York. Footage upon footage of film from all over the place. Means nothing to her, as well as the other truthers who claim no planes. You need to see how much sky there is on the Island of Manhattan to realize how absurd the no airplane theses is. People saw and heard those airplanes barreling down the Hudson River. Clear as the day.

    But of course Iris being a scared Muslim wanting to clear the tumult regarding Islamic murderers probably thinks the Taliban is a false flag bunch of Mossad trained Israelis. LOL. Israelis all done up in makeup and eyeliner because Muslims would never kill girls for going to school or make their wives into slaves wearing all black. NO NO must be the Jews. Afghanistan is a huge false flag run by Jews.

    It must be so so lonely being a Jew hater. They are so alone in the world other than the pop tarts here on UR. Notice how all the articles are recycled over and over again. The liberty, JFK, 9/11, the Bolsheviks all of it a repeat story over and over. I think that Ron has lost a lot of his gloss as these stories become repetitive and more unbelievable as time moves along. Like the one he wrote that Covid was a US bio weapon perpetrated on China. Just wow for that one. None of his stories or any of the writters on UR have gained one ounce of traction outside internet nonsense. Not one. The Holocaust deniers and 9/11 truthers lead lonely, lonely lives. They are all legends in their own lunch boxes.

  298. @Fran Taubman

    I’m not sure about Iris. I don’t think she is genuinely insane. But there is doubt about all possible explanations that I, for one, will never solve because I no longer read her [or him?].

    Iris could be part of a team aimed to discredit Unz Review generally. At least I know where you stand.

    Before I go. Add to your observation that thousands saw the planes hitting the WTC Towers the fact that they did NOT hear the sounds of explosions that microphones picked up and recorded on the YouTube videos I posted. Those explosions should have been heard and recorded a .ile away. Moreover the puffs of smoke from the many small explosions needed for a controlled demolition are absent in the 9/11 videos. Iris put her foot in it by insisting that the Twin Towers were narrow. Clearly they would have allowed the puffs of smoke from explosions to be seen.

    • Replies: @Truth Vigilante
  299. @Fran Taubman

    None of his stories or any of the writters on UR have gained one ounce of traction outside internet nonsense. Not one.

    What is gaining traction supposed to evince—that an average dullard believed something?

    BTW, neither being a jew hater nor a disbeliever of the state’s official conspiracy theory for the 9/11/2001 attacks is lonely. How could jew-hating be lonely when our numbers increase at an astounding but wholly understandable rate? People have been irritated above their threshold of laziness, and it may be hard going for the chosen people.

    I grew up liking jews as a group. Now I despise them as a group. Cohencidence, or simply observation maturation in action? There is no racial/religious line more worthy of complete eradication via sterilization. It’s a shame too, because some of them are nice to have around individually. But as a group, they are earth’s curse.

    • Agree: skrik
    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  300. anonymous[251] • Disclaimer says:

    Polish people and Polish Law and Justice Pols seem to be sensible and practical about Islamic terrorism, mass Muslim migrations. They don’t go in for J Neo Conservative/Zionist wars either.

    That seems easy for me – a sensible White Midwestern American to understand.

    But for others…..

    Kooks
    Nutcases
    Paranoid Conspiracy mongering Loons

    Sigh

    J Ryan
    TPC

  301. dimples says:
    @Rev. Spooner

    If a missile made the perfectly round hole in the wall, it would still be intact. Otherwise the hole would not be round. This simple fact does not occur to missile believers. If a missile caused the round hole, it would be sitting in the Pentagon lunch area in the middle of the building, still intact.

    What caused the round hole? Don’t ask me, but it was not a missile or a plane that struck the outer wall. Both would have disintegrated long before reaching this area. I would assume it is either an unusual blast effect or the whole thing has been set up to create legions of fanatical missile believers. Either way the round hole is irrelevant to whether a plane or missile hit the building. I’ll go with plane, since that is what people saw and is logically what the planners would use.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @mulga mumblebrain
  302. @Iris

    Right on. I would otherwise simply agree, but can’t use that button.

    • Thanks: Iris
  303. @Wizard of Oz

    wATCH ANY VIDEO SHOWING THE COLLAPSE OF THE SOUTH TOWER FROM THE TOP TO THE BOTTOM. uNLESS YOU ARE BLIND, YOU WILL SEE PUFFS OF SMOKE EMERGING FROM WINDOWS BELOW WHERE THE TOWERS HAVE BEEN PULVERRISZED, AND THESDE PUFFS PRECED THE PULVERIZATION OF THE TOWER. [CAPS NOT INTENDED, BUT HIT THE CAPS BUTTON. ]

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  304. @Iris

    “Explosives … were reported … long before”

    That statement is not supported by your own video clip of William Rodriguez. In his account on that clip he claims that it was 8:46, right at the time when the plane is said to have hit the Tower, that he heard an explosion and felt something underneath himself. Then he says he heard another explosion 7 seconds later and he express conviction that that 2nd explosion was the impact of the plane hitting the building. His account there is muddled enough that he may well have just been hearing and feeling aftershocks from the plane hitting the building in both cases. In any case, his story there definitely does not match with the claim that “explosives were reported long before.” He is claiming rather that he felt an explosion 7 seconds before what he thinks was the plane-impact.

    More on William Rodriguez here:

    htttps://sites.google.com/site/911stories/home

    • Replies: @Iris
  305. @Wizard of Oz

    You would do well to sit back, STFU and absorb everything Iris (and Old Philosopher from comment # 309) is telling you, rather than interject with your uninformed comments.

    You wrote:

    … thousands saw the planes hitting the WTC Towers the fact that they did NOT hear the sounds of explosions ….. Those explosions should have been heard and recorded a mile away.

    Moreover the puffs of smoke from the many small explosions needed for a controlled demolition are absent in the 9/11 videos. Iris put her foot in it by insisting that the Twin Towers were narrow. Clearly they would have allowed the puffs of smoke from explosions to be see

    I suggest you pay careful attention to the following video. (Watch from 3:50:00 – 3:56:00 that presents a deluge of evidence for explosions heard by countless witnesses. Watch from 3:56:00 – 4:00:00 for video evidence of the squibs on WTC 1 & 2 located several floors below the point of destruction – further proof that explosions/demolition charges were going off):

    And, contrary to what you said about the puffs of smoke (squibs) being absent from the Zio edited 9/11 videos you no doubt are accessing, they are in fact everywhere visible in unmanipulated video footage.

    • Thanks: Iris
  306. @The Old Philosopher

    Total BS. I have spent an hour searching and viewing and none of the videos of the collapse of either Tower show puffs of smoke like those on the videos of buildings demolished by controlled demolition that I previously posted. It’s time for you to get serious and prove your point. Or are you just playing silly games?

    You can skip these

    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-14870871

  307. Iris says:
    @schnellandine

    – 10 lines of empty psycho-babble and ad hominem on people you know nothing about
    – 0 lines on the actual facts of the subject, the 9/11 “planes”.
    What does this tell about the credibility of your comments?

    There are so many scientific facts that make the 9/11 WTC alleged “plane attack” completely impossible that I won’t even bother mentioning them all.

    But since you see yourself as a plane flying expert, here are two facts for you to contemplate.
    As long as you continue denying them and denying reality, you will continue falling in the “Stupidest Hasbara” category, alongside the Wazzock of Zion and the hysteric Chabad valkyrie Taubman.

    – It would have been impossible to target and hit a Twin Tower at 530+mph: the Towers were narrower than an airstrip, and their alleged speeds would have been 3 to 4 times over the normal landing speed. The experience was made by known professional of 9/11 Truth Pilots and proven to be impossible.

    – Furthermore, it would have been impossible for a commercial aircraft to fly at the speeds of the alleged WTC planes without breaking in-flight.

    The dynamic pressure exerted by the ambient air, at sea-level high air density, would have been far too high for any aircraft to bear. The planes would have dislocated in the air long before reaching the Towers. They would have been completely off-the-chart on the official Boeing V-G diagram, to the far right of the graph, in engineering limbos, in Hasbara fairy-tale territory.

    Nowadays, there is not a single mainstream religion on the planet, not even one, that denies the scientific supremacy of Physics in describing reality, as opposed to old time pseudo-religious superstitions.

    The only exception is Israeli Talmudism, which still tries to convince us that dozens of Physics laws were suspended on 9/11, as if we were still in the 16th Century. This is why the 9/11 Truth movement has not failed, and why the clock is ticking for the 9/11 main perpetrator, Israel: Science is on our side.

    • Troll: schnellandine
    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  308. Iris says:
    @dimples

    What caused the round hole?

    It is simple enough; only a blind won’t see it.

    Whatever hit the Pentagon was able to cut through 3 rings of bunker-grade reinforced concrete, Ring E, D and C:

    It was even able to make a considerable exit hole in Ring C; look at the size of it compared to the firemen:

    Whatever hit the Pentagon was certainly not an aircraft, and could only have been a bunker-busting type of missile.

  309. @dimples

    What a sad little comment. No missile, which should have passed through the concrete and steel intact (???!!), but the absence of ANY plane debris proves that it was a plane(!!!???). Who are these ‘planners’?

  310. Anon[203] • Disclaimer says:

    No such thing as “Islamic” Terrorrism. 911 terror was orchestrated by Zionist Christo Criminals. Zionism is cut from the same cloth as Nazism and Bolshevism, and cut by the same hand – the Anglo-American banking establishment. Insider Anthony C. Sutton has documented this quite well, as has Bill Clinton mentor Carroll Quigley. Zionism is really a bizarre parody of Nazism, right down to the tribal “master race” fantasy, the concentration camps, and the internal, hated, ethnic “other.” Israel was created with an alliance between Nazis and self-hating, atheist, Zionist Jews – Nazi troop ships brought whole Jewish factories and villages to Palestine before the war. They betrayed the observant Jews of Europe. But yes, Mossad works with the CIA to do these false flags. They also fund and run ISIS with the Paedo-gon. Wahabists in Saudia Arabia are in league with them, because they wish to wipe out all other sects of Islam. Israel is left alone, you’ll notice. ISIS never even mentions them. Likewise, they never attack oil rich nations allied with the USA. Only those oil-rich nations that have their own financial system, that stand apart from – the banking establishment. The first thing they did in Libya was to airlift out the gold reserves, and install a Rothschild central bank.

    The Zionist West created Israeli Secret Intelligence Service ISIS to demonize Islam and Muslims.
    The Zionist West has a history of making mockery of the Creator of Heaven’s and earth.
    These are the same godless people whose ancestor’s have killed messenger’s of God that were sent to remind humanity to live by the Shari’ah TEN Commandments.
    But instead they have deviated by engaging in false flag hoaxes such as 9-11, Boston Marathon, London 7-7-7, Paris false flags.
    The have removed the institution of family and decency by legalizing homosexuality, pornography, gambling, Adultery, fraudulent money and outright criminal wars based on Weapons of Mass Deception.
    And now they got people such as yourselves invoking insults to your Creator without even reflecting what repercussion and wrath it will invite from your maker.
    But ISIS-Israeli Secret Intelligence Service disguised as Islamic state needs to hear this loud and clear: No country’s actions are worse than yours. What you choose to carry out is infinitely more reprehensible – because whenever you do something horrific you have the audacity to invoke God’s name first.

    Some Priests, Imams, and Rabbis are Liars! Quran

  311. Iris says:
    @Patrick McNally

    William Rodriguez was very specific in his testimony; even a profound retard can understand it.

    The explosion he reported occurred 6 to 7 seconds before the alleged plane hit the Tower, i.e. 6 to 7 seconds before the major explosion at the top of the Tower.

    The premature explosion he reported occurred in the basement Mechanical Room, in a floor below where his maintenance team was sitting. It blew up an electrical generator, destroyed the sprinkler system and wounded a maintenance technician called Felipe David, a Black man of Honduran origin.

    Here is Felipe David, with his explosion wounds incurred before the plane struck the Tower, shown on the news. Any reader can judge by themselves.

    You are past scrapping the Hasbara barrel of lies; you are now in outright in-your-face fantasy territory. What next? Harry Potter did 9/11?

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  312. @Wizard of Oz

    Without saying this is evidence of controlled demolition, here’s Hoffman’s page about squibs of smoke:

    911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/collapses/squibs.html

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  313. @Iris

    Iris I love your diagrams. Always so fresh and new. Keep them coming. The Boeing 767 V -G diagram really hits the nail on the head that it is was impossible for an airplane to hit the tower.

    I see it so clearly. Like of course. Why didn’t I see that before. If you held that chart/ diagram upside down or at 90 degrees with the V going on the opposite direction would it then be possible for an airplane to hit the towers? Maybe everyone is looking at the data upside down. Lol

    I am sure if you showed this diagram correctly to the physics / scientific community they would clearly see that it was impossible for an airplane to hit the towers and we would all be on the same page.

    Have you mailed that chart to Boeing? Obviously faced with such irrefutable facts they would agree with your elementary findings. Thanks so much for straightening us airplane folks our.

    Life really is so simple Iris.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Al Liguori
  314. mary-lou says:
    @Dick Lowman

    what about those who searched for ‘the truth’ after JFK? RFK? or those trying to shed light on the atrocities carried out in the name of so-called “safe” vaccinations? one shouldn’t deny anyone to not look for the why’s, what’s and who’s of government-sponsored injustice and false flags. government abuse must be addressed and information uncovered. after all, we want to be able to look our (grand)children in the eye and tell them about it and our own position trying to defend the truth.

  315. Iris says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Every plane pilot on Earth understands what a VG diagram is: it is the handbook they follow to keep a plane in the air. That makes a great lot of people.

    Not everybody has the privilege to be stupid, uneducated and vulgar all at the same time as you are, Taubman. You are rare and unique.

    • Replies: @schnellandine
  316. @Patrick McNally

    Thanks, though I have wasted a lot of time finding my way round that plum pudding of a site. It is stuffed with stuff apparently intended to show candour but, on the critical question of the little puffs (“squibs”) of smoke shown in videos of actual controlled demolitions the suggestion that they are visible is just plain false. Extraordinarily another passage explains why that had to be. These controlled demolitions were different – having to roll down at just he right speed with the vast clouds of smoke.

    I have lost part of what I hoped I had saved and am tired of wading through the junk which doesn’t show what it claims so, just to have it available I append what I have managed to save and not lose.

    t is clear from photographs and videos of the Towers’ destruction that the zones of destruction moved downward at about the same rates as the exploding rubble clouds descended, so that these zones remained concealed by the clouds. If these zones of destruction moved either too quickly or too slowly, they would have become visible below or above the rubble clouds, blatantly contradicting the official account of gravity-driven collapses.

    and

    [MORE]

    Distributed ExplosivesTheories that Distributed High Explosives Destroyed the Twin Towers

    Of the types of Twin Tower demolition theories, the most widely embraced are ones describing the detonation of numerous explosive charges hidden in locations from the top to the bottom of the Towers. The explosives would be used to shatter the steel structure, much like conventional demolitions, but the timing of detonations would be made to start near the crash zones and move downward, to simulate a progressive collapse.

    Perhaps the first person to clearly articulate the distributed explosives theory was Eric Hufschmid, in his book Painful Questions. 1   He describes how packages containing high explosives such as RDX could have been hidden in the Towers. Each package would contain a detonator controlled by a radio receiver, allowing it to be individually detonated by remote control, perhaps from a control center in Building 7.

    Conventional Demolitions

    Conventional demolitions employ numerous explosive charges, placed adjacent to all the vertical support structures of the building and on multiple levels, starting at the ground. Careful timing of the detonations is essential to achieving vertical collapse of the building into its footprint. Typically, charges on the interior columns at ground level are detonated first, causing the central portion of the building to begin to collapse, pulling the perimeter of the building inward. Detonations then proceed outward, destroying perimeter columns after inner columns, and upward, destroying sections of columns just as they reach the ground. The net effect is a vertical collapse in which the building implodes, falling into a rubble pile almost entirely within the building’s footprint.

    Most conventional demolitions use detonation cords to set off the explosive charges. However, equipment currently on the market, such as the HiEx TeleBlaster, allows the detonation of charges without the use of cords or wires. 2   Such wireless equipment allows demolitions to be set up in a much less intrusive manner than was previously possible.

    Twin Towers’ Demolition

    The Twin Towers’ demolition, if achieved through distributed explosive charges, was engineered in a decidedly different manner from conventional demolitions to make it consistent with the story that the Towers collapsed as a result of the jet impacts and fires. The main differences were:

    Explosions started at the impact zone and proceeded down the intact portion of the Tower and up the overhanging portion, instead of starting at ground level.Much more powerful explosives were used than in a conventional demolition.In the South Tower demolition, the overhanging portion was allowed to tip for a few seconds before the larger explosions commenced.

    The Twin Tower demolitions resembled conventional demolitions in that the Towers fell with dead-centered vertical symmetry; but differed in that material was ejected horizontally in all directions, resulting in rubble piles several times the diameter of the Towers’ footprints. The Twin Towers exploded rather than imploded.

    The Twin Towers were also demolished at a more rapid rate than is the case in conventional demolitions. When buildings are demolished from the ground up, gravity is typically relied upon to do most of the work once several floors have been demolished, and the upper portion of the building is falling with considerable kinetic energy. The tapping of that energy to break up the structure slows the fall. In the case of the Twin Towers, it appeared that the explosive events were progressing down the Towers’ intact portions at a rate only slightly slower than free-fall.

    Disaster Engineering

    One might ask questions about two features of the demolition, both of which would seem to detract from the realism of simulated gravity-driven collapses.

    Why would the perpetrators use much greater quantities of explosives than in a conventional demolition?Why would they destroy the Towers at such a rapid rate?

    The answer to the first question probably has to do with economics. The use of less explosives would fail to break up the Towers’ structures as thoroughly. Since the destruction started a thousand feet aloft, large falling pieces could have been deflected hundreds of feet when they hit other objects near the ground. Had not the Towers’ perimeter walls been so thoroughly shredded, they might have fallen away in large sections, pivoting large distances from the Towers. The result could have been more damage to buildings outside the World Trade Center complex than occurred. While the high explosives threw pieces of the perimeter wall as much as 500 feet laterally, their distribution was more predictable and their sizes were smaller and less likely to do serious damage than might have happened with less powerful explosives.

    The answer to the second question probably has to do with hiding obvious evidence of explosions. Increasingly powerful explosions occurred as the destruction progressed down the Towers, perhaps to ensure the thorough destruction of the stronger structures lower in the Towers. If the rate at which the explosives were detonated was not fast enough to stay ahead of the falling rubble, the perpetrators ran the risk that the rubble would fall away from the moving zone of destruction, revealing large obvious explosions at the top of the exposed structures.

    Contrary Evidence

    The distributed explosives theory can easily explain the gross features of the collapses from the top-to-bottom destruction to the pulverization of the Towers’ materials. However, there are a number of more subtle features of the collapses that do not appear to be consistent with this theory, at least in its simplest form. The following collapse features suggest that the demolition of the Towers was accomplished using technologies other than just distributed conventional explosives. In contrast, many of the same features do appear to be consistent with the thermobarics theory, and the final one suggests the thermite theory.

    Absence of high blast pressures in collapse onsets
    Careful study of photographs and videos of both collapses shows that the perimeter walls do not immediately blow out in the way one would expect if explosives adjacent ot the perimeter columns were used to destroy them. Rather, the walls telescope as they disappear into the burgeoning dust clouds, to partially reappear seconds later as fragments outracing the dust cloud.Rapid degradation of structure
    Features of the onset of both collapses indicate that structures around and above the crash zones lost almost all their strength. In the South Tower, the top not only tips, it bends: The outer wall exhibits a peculiar curve extending about 15 floors above the crash zone. Similarly, in the North Tower, the top begins to telescope straight down with no evidence of bucking in the perimeter columns. In both cases the structure’s strength seems to disappear even before any of the explosive features appear.Uniformity of pulverization
    Photographs and reports from Ground Zero indicate that the vast majority of the estimated 90,000 tons of concrete in each Tower was turned to fine dust, not a mixture of dust and gravel or larger chunks. Since blast pressures from explosive charges fall off with the square of the distance from the source, achieving such thorough pulverization with distributed explosives would seem to have required a huge number of individual packages being placed throughout the building.Vaporization of people
    Over 1000 victims were never identified despite over a year of efforts to identify victims from even the smallest fragments using DNA. Explosive charges would be unlikely to so thoroughly degrade the remains of so many people.Persistence of core structures
    In both collapses, a large section of the core structure extending up over 600 feet remains standing for a few seconds and then collapses. The persistent remnant of the North Tower is very narrow and delicate. It is difficult to imagine how such structures could have survived the blast pressures generated by demolition waves of explosive charges, only to themselves collapse a few seconds later.

  317. @Truth Vigilante

    Thank you for directing my attention to the best case I have seen for opening a new investigation of 9/11. Interesting that it contradicts our host’s version that has formally into the Twin Towers footprints. Indeed it makes quite a point of insisting that only explosives could have ejected steel beams so far.

    It’s case is that there are such problems with the NIST version that an inquiry is needed but it doesn’t actually produce an alternative version that is coherent and convincing. On the whole I would be happy for a young lawyer briefed to prepare the cross-examination of the truthers’ expert witnesses. I think he could afford to get married, buy a brownstone and start a family. I don’t think he would have too much trouble with puffs (squibs) of smoke that only a vivid imagination could equate to those seen in videos of actual demolitions. As to explosions we only have a number of people calling noises that they heard at imprecisely stated times and places as explosions. The stories of molten steel are extraordinary. It certainly gets over, prima facie, any problem of there not having been enough heat to weaken the steel structure sufficiently to produce collapse.

    Why hasn’t that been enough for NY Democrats to use against the Republicans who so disastrously started the War on Terror? Apart from supporting litigation it NY Democrats could surely set up a prestigious commission of inquiry with sub poena powers and get political advantage from it.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  318. @Truth Vigilante

    Did you notice the picture of WTC 7 coming down without even the hint of a squib? I’ve always thought WTC7 almost fatal to the truther versions which absolve the Arabs because the conspirators wouldn’t want to spoil the story of Al Qaeda responsibility. But demolition without squibs is consistent with the idea that demolition was improvised during the day of 9/11 by way of one or two large explosions at or not far above lobby level. Still, who heard the erosion?

    • Replies: @Truth Vigilante
  319. Ron Unz says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Interesting that it contradicts our host’s version that has formally into the Twin Towers footprints.

    I’m not a structural engineer or other expert, but I think you’re seriously misunderstanding the argument being made…

    Under the official narrative, the buildings were brought down by the collision with jetliners and the resulting localized fires. These stresses were extremely asymmetrical, being entirely on one side of the structure. Therefore, one would intuitively assume that the resulting collapse of the very tall skyscrapers would also be asymmetrical, probably involving the building collapsing somewhat to one side, at least at first.

    Yet the actual collapse in all cases was almost perfectly symmetrical, and straight down, right into its own “footprints.” This seems very odd, and I think those expert academic engineers in the University of Alaska research study found that it didn’t make any sense.

    Instead, it’s exactly what you would expect to see during a controlled demolition. Indeed, that Dutch demolition expert was shown a video of the WTC 7 collapse by a documentary crew without being told what it was, and said it was perfect example of very well-done controlled demolition. A few years later, the clip of his statement got massive attention after it was aired by Iran’s PressTV, and a couple of days later, the unfortunate expert mysteriously died in a single-car traffic accident, thereby encouraging other demolition experts to be more cautious in their own public statements.

  320. @Ron Unz

    Fair enough, but I have another point to make along the lines of my WTC7 (and Pentagon missile) one which involves asking why on earth rational plotters would do it that way.

    You may recall the video I posted of the controlled demolition in China of 18 high rise apartment buildings. The explosives were only used at the lowest floors and they all crashed sideways so as to destroy any lower structure. Why would plotters plan to bring down the WTC buildings with comparatively little damage outside their own footprints when doing more damage was a plus? Why would they spend possibly weeks or months rigging up the Towers for a for a sophisticated demolition at ever greater risk of discovery? Why would they perform a highly skilled job of preparing the demolition which would make in incredible that it was an Al Qaeda operation performed by counterparts of the Arab hijackers?

    • Replies: @Iris
  321. @Wizard of Oz

    I am going to be charitable and merely declare you to be beyond legally blind.

    The fact is that the firstm video you listed shows the squibbs emerging from the right side of the tower after, it begins to collapse in a huge ckous of dust.

    It’sd worth;ess talkin to or having exchangesd with someone who so knowing spreads lies. That’s my conclusion after I have ceased to be charitable.

    • Replies: @schnellandine
  322. @Iris

    Every plane pilot on Earth understands what a VG diagram is: it is the handbook they follow to keep a plane in the air.

    This salty pilot knows you’re an idiot. Stop pretending you know anything about aviation.

    Tell us all about equivalent airspeed and compressibility. Regale us with tales of your wing flutter testing, documented on 16mm film. Boast of the myriad carrier traps you bagged before moving to the slow-show.

    Then link to a video where some lying dumbass insists that he was unable, in MSFS[!], to reliably fly into a WTC tower, you incomprehensible moron. I hadn’t, in a flight sim of course, intentionally flown into anything in years. Two weeks ago, after wrapping up an instrument flight session and switching to VMC (you’ll know that initialism, of course), I said to myself, “schnelly, Old Sport, you’ve been saying how easy it is to fly into things. Let’s just make sure you’ve still got the stuff.” So I whipped around (heavy jet) and targeted the first inconvenient thing that came to mind. Nailed it within 4 feet of dead center, first try, in a turn.

    I’ll waste the time to explain the earlier Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect reference. I know aviation. I know that you don’t know aviation. Thus it leads me to assume, bearing in mind The Effect, that you’re similarly ignorant of all of the other subjects on which you opine, about which I don’t happen to know immediately that you’re markedly out of your depth.

    Now tell Franny how that diagram was compiled, and who did it. Confess.

    • Replies: @Iris
  323. @The Old Philosopher

    I am going to be charitable and merely declare you to be beyond legally blind.

    Says the Old Philosopher who posts a comment with toggled case, his solution to which is the addition of explanatory text.

    ROFLMAO

    • Replies: @The Old Philosopher
  324. Iris says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Why would plotters plan to bring down the WTC buildings with comparatively little damage outside their own footprints when doing more damage was a plus?

    Our host has taken the time to formulate a very sensible and very pedagogical answer to your nonsense, but you still find a way to double down.

    Conventional demolition is as much a science as it is an art: one cannot be certain of how a demolition method actually works until (1) either it is tested in real life (2) or it simulated repeatedly and satisfactorily with very powerful and elaborate software simulation tools.

    In 2001, structural and demolition engineers had none of the baseline tools above.
    1) the tallest high-rise building to have ever been actually demolished was the New York’s Singer Building, which was only 47-storeys high.
    2) Civil engineering software tools available then were not as powerful as they are today. This is in part why it took 19 years to produce the University of Alaska study proving that WTC7 came down by controlled demolition.
    https://ine.uaf.edu/wtc7

    So even if the Israelis who blew up the WTC were very intelligent and very competent, which they weren’t, they could not have, at the time, devised an efficient method to demolish the Twin Towers in an asymmetrical way, so as to deflect suspicion. There simply existed no means or conventional demolition knowledge to achieve that in 2001.

    The controlled demolition of the Twin Towers and WTC7 was executed in a much simpler way: the Israeli criminals opportunistically utilised an existing demolition feature already in place, and embedded at construction in the mid-1960.

    When the Twin Towers were being designed in the mid-1960’s, New York was in the throws of a big engineering problem: how to demolish the Singer Building, which large footprint and narrow upper floors made economically unviable?

    Nobody could come up with any solution that would spare the dense surrounding urban environment: as a consequence, the Singer high-rise building had to be demolished by hand. It took over 3 years in total.

    So when the planning application was made to build the Twin Towers, a brand new type of structure, building regulations mandated to define a demolition method in advance.
    Because it was the 60’s and people were unware and foolishly optimistic, the demolition engineers came up with a nuclear demolition method, that was kept secret from the public.

    It consisted simply in digging a borehole under the foundations of each tower, at minus 75 meter below bedrock level, and let this borehole empty and accessible for future nuclear demolition usage, which was of course intended to be conducted in a controlled and authorised fashion by professionals.

    The demolition feature was of a design similar to the picture below, except that each building was not on the side, but directly above the underground explosion chamber in which a nuclear device would be lowered when time comes.

    There was of course no permanent nuclear charges under the Twin Towers: they were all stored under WTC7, under governmental control at all time.

    Then, the Israelis organised their “Pentagon and WTC planes” phony comedy with a missile and explosives. The ensuing panic triggered a national nuclear emergency alert, and allowed them to fool the American authorities, obtain the nuclear codes, release the A bombs stored under WTC7, move them and lower them into the borehole under each Twin Tower, and detonate the buildings with 3000 innocents inside.

    The WTC controlled demolition was a classic, standard case of underground nuclear testing. Over 1,471 such tests have been officially carried out by nuclear super-powers, to which one can add the 3 detonations executed by Israel at the WTC.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6033893.stm

    • Thanks: The Old Philosopher
    • LOL: Wizard of Oz
  325. @Iris

    Rodriguez is making assumptions that a sound which he heard which seemed to come from above must have been the plane hitting and that if the plane had hit before he felt the tremors from below then he would have heard it. Those are unwarranted assumptions.

    “Lombardi was at his desk. He heard nothing, but felt the tower sway, and saw people in the hallway go airborne before they fell. His first thought was that New York was experiencing an earthquake. But then, just outside his window, he saw a huge ball of fire…”
    — William Langewiesche, American Ground: Unbuilding the World Trade Center, p. 47.

    Lombardi was at the 72nd floor and he missed the initial noise. There’s no way to be sure that Rodriguez thinks was the sound of the plane hitting the building may not have come 15 seconds or so after the actual hit.

    • Replies: @Iris
  326. Al Liguori says: • Website
    @Fran Taubman

    All these false flags and disguises of the shapeshifting Jews are quintessentially talmudic—derivative of the deceitful parable of Moed Katan 17a that teaches Jews that when they are tempted to do evil, they should disguise themselves, then do their evil in another place where they are not known. The Talmud is full of corollary instructions to do evil against gentiles providing there is no blowback on the tribe (“the name of Heaven”).

  327. Al Liguori says: • Website
    @Fran Taubman

    Fran, your foul mouth betrays your desperation in trying to exculpate guilty Jews. Your low budget argument by assertion and your name-calling betray your accomplice as one of Satan’s Chosen.

    Fran in her own words, a stereotypical Jew:

    [MORE]

    #197 Go Jerk off on some S & M porno.
    https://www.unz.com/article/out-thought-out-bought-out-fought-why-the-9-11-truth-movement-failed/#comment-4973381

    #744 Fuck you!
    https://www.unz.com/article/the-jew-thing/#comment-4365542

    #150 Problem is I take offense at idol worship. I view Jesus as a fake idol not a Demi god or the son of god. Jesus is a charlatan a sorcerer who practiced black magic and performed miracles that only a true god could perform.
    We Jews call Jesus a momzer. An illegitimate son of an unmarried woman. I do not believe in the virgin birth or do I find paintings of Mary comforting. as a false idol Demi god. Mary conceived Jesus unmarried with a non Jewish Roman soldier.
    So Jesus to me is a fake. Unholy like those pedophile priest. I am uncomfortable around paintings of flying Christian angels and symbols. Frightening!! The bat in the painting maybe you before your vampire days.

    #161 I know. I am epitome of evil isn’t delicious. Eat shit and ie [sic]..
    https://www.unz.com/gatzmon/we-are-all-jews-in-the-eyes-of-todays-nazis/#comment-4027600

    #81 F***k off with your BS
    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/perceptions-of-religions-by-race/#comment-4073575

    #6 give a flying fuck
    #7 Stick to the fucking script.
    #24 Are you fucking sadistic or just stupid.
    https://www.unz.com/gatzmon/expose-lord-falconer-is-caught-reading-an-hasbara-script-on-bbc-live/

    #25 get the fuck out
    https://www.unz.com/gatzmon/margaret-hodge-iran-and-jazz/

    #389 get the fuck out
    https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/how-to-start-an-unnecessary-war/

    #115 Get a fucking life.
    https://www.unz.com/gatzmon/on-biblical-celebrities-and-jewish-symbolism/

    #18 horseshit
    https://www.unz.com/gatzmon/expose-lord-falconer-is-caught-reading-an-hasbara-script-on-bbc-live/

    # 1293 Dear Ron… BS.
    # 1299 Another libel is the Black plaque [sic]… You can get sued for libel. I will do all I can to shut your hate speech website down, that is all it is. There is a big push to shut down hate speech on the internet.
    # 1308 tin horn
    # 1320 scum bag… fraud… YOUR BULLSHIT.
    #1463 complete and utter bullshit
    #1464 racist
    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-secrets-of-military-intelligence/

    #72 “Why don’t you show up at the border fence sometime soon maybe we can end your misery?”
    #210 “…my behavior has been more civil then most here.”
    #216 “The shooter has responsibility but so does the Jihadist resister. It is 50 /50”
    As if children, including children sniped in the womb, are “resisters” who have “50% responsibility.
    #226 “My point being don’t blame the Israelis for killing before being killed.”
    #242 “send children into harms way, so that [snipers will kill them]”
    #273 “send children into harms way. so that [snipers will kill them]”
    #275 “Are you the wicked witch in the Wizard of Oz?”
    #277 “That was an errant Hamas rocket that killed the pregnant mother and child. I think the guy that posted them gets his winnie high”. As if the two pictured children with bullet holes were blown up by rockets?
    #363 “No one truth is correct…”
    #583 “only a total war with winner take all will solve the problem.”
    #598 “There are probably some wanted Jihadis on this site…I am not understanding the time zone stuff.”
    #637 “You are taking Judaism out of context, from the bronze age. “
    #709 “All religions are the same, working towards the same goals.”
    #714 “Nothin absolutely nothing bad in Judaism or Jews.”
    \$738 “anti-semites, …And these fuckers think they actually make sense.”
    #826 “Ignorant Al,… …who knows absolutely about nothing”
    #749 “We can agree to disagree with out disparaging one another.” Hyppocrisy?
    #769 “Jew hater…irrational Jew hater”
    \$770 “Lets stick to mainstream shit.”
    #782 “You poor poor gentile whites just lying around in your pee pee, cause you cannot stand up to those big bad Jews.”
    #791 “Yo everyone on this site, check this dude out. Yeah baby. STD’s from a bris.”
    #841 “you do not have the intellectual ability to do. Thank Allah there are maybe 1000 people as dumb as a door knob like you”
    #852 “I would never speak about another religions holy books in that manner.”
    #875 Never? “demented Catholic/Christian, …A classic Jew hater”
    #885 “people “outside” the normal psychological lines… “dumb goyim” is a valid score… mental deficient people, … obsessive beyond reason.… dumb goyim … wackos.”
    #894 “definition of sicko… irrational … incoherent, off the wall … cannot live a normal life without this lust for hatred and destruction”
    #916 “Maybe [what the Talmud says about Jesus] is true, since you are a devoted follower.”
    #919 “Don’t like Jesus lying in boiling feces, stop bothering me. I am almost sure he is.
    Looking forward to you boiling with extra hot sauce.”
    #930 “If you follow this thread you are at the end of a long assault on Jews and Judaism with disgusting stereotypes, name calling and accusations that are beyond ….. verging on harassment.”
    #940 “however stupid, and impenetrable your hatred is.
    It is sole based on ignorance.”
    #940 “YOU ARE A RACIST”
    #944 “out of context”
    #947 “however stupid, and impenetrable your hatred is.
    It is sole based on ignorance.”
    #956 “antisemite”
    #960 “antisemitism… Look I am not here to defend every Jew or every Israeli, how pointless. Stop fucking with the morality of most Jews.”
    https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/israels-war-criminals-in-their-own-words/

    • Thanks: schnellandine, Iris
  328. Iris says:
    @Patrick McNally

    Of course, troll, and the technician (Felipe David) who lost his skin in the basement’s premature explosion was faking it, it was just Halloween fancy dressing.

    And the people who escaped the North Tower long before it collapsed, covered in dust head-to-toe from the explosions in the Tower’s lobby were faking it too.

    Unbelievable.

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  329. @schnellandine

    The hall mark of erudition.

    I never claimed to be a expert typist. Thanks for confirming it.

  330. @Iris

    Why would anyone be disputing the reports of injuries on specific victims in this context? You’re just making stuff up. The main questions which would surround the Rodriguez report are:

    1) How sure can one be that the first explosion which he heard was really coming before the plane crash, with the 2nd explosion he hears being the actual plane crash, as opposed to the plausible hypothesis that both sounds heard by Rodriguez may have come after the plane crash, with him simply not having heard the initial crash?

    2) Assuming that these were bombs planted somewhere in the lower levels of the building that went off before the plane crash, to what extent is it possible that such bombs might have been planted by Al Qaeda in a manner similar to what had been attempted in 1993, but with this now combined with plane crashes as a further mode of attack?

    3) Allowing for the hypothesis that someone, whether Al Qaeda or Mossad or whoever, did place some bombs in the lower levels of the building, is there any reason to believe that such bombs played much role in bringing about the later collapse?

    To address these issues in reverse order, the structures on the lower floors stayed essentially intact after the global collapse.

    911research.wtc7.net/cache/wtc/analysis/theories/acfd_miraclecompany_6.htm

    Ladder Company 6 was trapped between the 2nd and 4th floors after the whole North Tower had collapsed on them. They were eventually dug out. But if basement nukes had been destroying the building from the bottom up then they would not have survived. If there were any bombs planted on the lower levels then they must have been peripheral to the global collapse for these people to have survived.

    Rodriguez himself promoted a story alleging that he had seen the hijacker Mohand Alshehri in June 2001 looking around the bathrooms of the WTC.

    http://www.survivalmonkey.com/threads/wtc-janitor-survives-basement-blast-blows-911-stor.1709

    Some skeptics have questioned whether Rodriguez would be reliable about identifying someone like this memory. I don’t know, but it raises the question of whether or not have been an auxiliary plot by Al Qaeda to plant some bombs in the building in the fashion attempted in 1993, while also using the planes to strike the building. That is possible, although impossible to investigate after the building collapsed. But it is a legitimate possibility and anyone who is going to cite Rodriguez as an authoritative source should mention that he himself was promoting this as an idea.

    As for whether or not Rodriguez could have failed to hear the first explosion and thereby confused later explosions with the initial one, there are plenty of examples of people not hearing the initial crash.

    hockeybird.blogspot.com/2020/09/nineteen-years.html

    “The elevator started moving. Suddenly it stopped and banged violently from side to side. The lights were still on. We pushed the emergency call button to call for help. As far as we were concerned, the only thing that happened was that the elevator had stopped.”
    — George S. Phoenix, 2001.

    It’s not obvious that what Rodriguez thinks was the sound of the plane crash may have actually been a follow-up explosion coming after the actual plane crash, which Rodriguez may have simply failed to hear.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  331. @Patrick McNally

    These people are not interested in logic or sanity, like Muslims tried to destroy the WTT in 1993 duh!!
    They are all Jew hunters. The beginning and end of their story. Nothing else makes any sense.

  332. @schnellandine

    How could jew-hating be lonely when our numbers increase at an astounding but wholly understandable rate?

    Jews and Israel seem to be doing okay. What statistics do you have about an increase in Jew hating Most Jew haters are pathaolgical psychos not fit for prime time real life like Al Liquori and Iris. These people do not function in the real world. Have friends and or a family life. Do you think Iris has a job? Does she go to work everyday and talk to people? How about you? Do you go to work everyday? Have family and friends.? Or do you live in the basement of your mom’s house?

    There is no racial/religious line more worthy of complete eradication via sterilization. It’s a shame too, because some of them are nice to have around individually. But as a group, they are earth’s curse.

    You see now this is what I am talking about. Why don’t your write your senator proposing sterilization of the Jews? Or talk to some friends about the idea? Family? See what I am saying about a lonely life. No one is interested in shit like this. Only pathological deviant people with hair raising mental problems. That is the core of the Jew haters. Who talks like that about eradication of a group of people? Sickos. You have no following no increase in numbers. You are a nut job pure and simple. You could not get 10 people to agree with your ideas outside of other mental deviant types.

    Enjoy your feeling of power on UR. That is as far as any of your ideas are going.

  333. a.hall says:

    AE911Truth always tried to explain How the World Trade Center Towers WTC 1,2 and 7 were Demolished by Nano-Thermite and Conventional High Explosive ; But Not WHO Did It. They detailed how Baby Bush , Cheney and the Neocons Ignored All Warnings Before 9-11. The Total Failure of the Trillion Dollar United States Air Force and Radar Systems to Protect New York City and Washington DC.
    AE911Truth did not dare think the Unthinkable; that Cheney, Bush etc had Killed nearly 3,000 American Civilians to provoke a National Thirst for Vengeance ; a” New Pearl Harbor ” Reaction to excuse Invasions of Afghanistan; For an Oil Pipeline Route and Iraq, to Steal it`s Oilfields.
    Israel Attacked Hamas in Gaza City the Day After 9-11.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
  334. peterAUS says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Speaking of Jews and Israel, what’s your take on the high vax rate in Israel?

    Some people (most here, actually…) believe the vax is some sort of deadly concoction.
    The same people also believe that Jews rule the world.

    They, then, believe that:
    1. Vax given to Israelis are fake.
    2. Those high death numbers, after being vaxed, are false.

    So….I’d be interested to hear your take on the above.
    A couple of guys here too, I guess. A couple, tops, mind you.

    Oh, BTW, thx to the author for ignoring my query above. Confirmed a couple of things.

  335. @Fran Taubman

    Or do you live in the basement of your mom’s house?

    And there’s that classic jew verbal superiority. Great stuff. Mom’s basement. Creative and funny. And jew haters say women aren’t funny. Well they’ve never met Fran of UR, says I.

    [MORE]

    Heh heh. Mom’s basement. Cracks me up. Really good. Still laughing about that. With talent of that sort you won’t need tribal connections, and that’s not just some guy in his mom’s basement talking; that’s a guy who’s watched TV! No, you are the goods, and that’s all there is to that.

    Gimme a minute to squirrel away that gem for when I might find it handy. Mom’s basement. Too much!

    I know Ron Unz doesn’t normally oblige requests to delete posts, but you might have a proprietary interest here which he’d indulge, given proper explanation. You need to trademark that zinger before it catches on. And it will catch on, I assure you. Mom’s basement. Classic.

    Okay, got it saved. Now:

    There is no racial/religious line more worthy of complete eradication via sterilization. It’s a shame too, because some of them are nice to have around individually. But as a group, they are earth’s curse.

    You see now this is what I am talking about. Why don’t your write your senator proposing sterilization of the Jews?

    Well, let me rev up my non-jew mental/logical inferiority to see if I can get somewhere near adjacent your realm: Maybe, and I’m just spitballing here, there is no ‘[my] senator’. And before we get to that problem, I think—again, I’m not a jew, so some sympathy for my decoding un-prowess may be fair—I think that it’s clear to all but the shallowest decrepit non-readers of English that I have not proposed here that jews be sterilized into eradication. Yes, I’m sure of it.

    So it would not follow that I propose to anyone else sterilization of the jews, even less to a nonexistent entity such as ‘[my] senator’.

    For you, FranMuffin.

    • LOL: Al Liguori
  336. @Wizard of Oz

    You wrote:

    Did you notice the picture of WTC 7 coming down without even the hint of a squib?

    Q: How many cameras were focused on WTC 1 & 2 in the moments before they collapsed ?

    A: A hell of a lot and many were taken from relatively close proximity and/or zooming in. (Hence the numerous videos available that display the squibs).

    Meanwhile, the few videos we have of WTC7’s collapse were taken from a long distance and, even under magnification, would’ve been to difficult to discern:

    The video above is the most commonly referenced one that we’ve all seen detailing the collapse of WTC7.
    This was a 47 storey building but I ask you, how many floors can you count that are visible before the collapse begins ?
    Perhaps one-third are not obscured by the other buildings.

    The lower two-thirds of WTC7, where squibs would’ve been observable, are hidden from view.

  337. For those UR readers, like Bibi Netanyahu and Fran Taubman, whose first reaction to the collapse of WTC 1, 2 & 7 was:
    ‘This is good’ [for the Apartheid Israeli State], you can sing along to this (and rejoice, as you did on that day with your comrades, the Five Dancing Shlomos):



    Video Link

    • Thanks: Iris, The Old Philosopher
  338. Al Liguori says: • Website
    @Fran Taubman

    …an increase in Jew hating Most Jew haters … pathaolgical psychos not fit for prime time real life like Al Liquori and Iris. … do not function in the real world. Have friends and or a family life. …has a job? Does she go to work everyday and talk to people? How about you? Do you go to work everyday? Have family and friends.? Or do you live in the basement of your mom’s house?

    Desperate flailing rage.

    Three points:
    Reference (including the Jewish lexicon): https://judaism.is/antisemitism.html

    357 of the best Jew memes here: https://judaism.is/memes.html

    • Thanks: Iris
  339. Al Liguori says: • Website
    @Fran Taubman

    Hey Fran,

    How about counter-semitism? Are we OK with that?

    • Thanks: schnellandine
  340. The Truth movement did not fail for lack of evidence. It failed to surmount the psychological barriers of Main St America. Patriotism simply does not allow certain avenues of discussion. One avenue that’s forbidden is criminal conspiracy within the government and there’s a reason.

    The head of AE911 Truth, Richard Gage, said that the implications of controlled demolition were staggering. He is wrong. Staggering implies and off balance stumble that allows recovery. In fact the implications are shattering. The entire fabric of American civic life is permanently shattered into pieces and cannot be re-assembled.

    If in 1776 a few taxes and arbitrary enforcement laws were enough to justify revolution, what does deliberate conspiracy to murder American citizens warrant? 911 was an engineered Pearl Harbor event to justify aggressive war, and it worked. By the very reasoning of the Declaration of Independence, controlled demolition implies the USA government is a fit target for revolution and termination.

    Termination implies that the citizen owes the government nothing; not loyalty, taxes, patriotic service, nothing. Civic life is shattered.

    Main St. America will not embrace this.

    • Agree: schnellandine
    • Thanks: Iris
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  341. @Bob From Accounting

    You mount a good argument. But does it mean that Americans wouldn’t accept a better inquiry that looked for evidence that someone [plural obviously] may have rigged up the WTC buildings for demolition and also encouraged the hijackers? Maybe you are on to something however. That is the spectre raised by many of the truther theories that the conspiracy couldn’t have been confined to foreigners and the private sector.

  342. @a.hall

    Cheney yes, Bush was totally clueless:

  343. Iris says:
    @schnellandine

    I will treat this as a genuine question, because the issue is really worth explaining.

    Aircraft aeronautics’ basic principles are very simple and can be understood in 3 sentences.

    1 – The Lift is the upward force that counteracts the aircraft’s Weight downward force and keeps it from falling. It is created by air’s dynamic pressure, thanks to the shape of the wings, because the air moving above the wing is faster than the air below it.

    2- The Lift is calculated by the classic Bernoulli formula; it is in direct ratio of the square of the aircraft’s speed V^2 and of the air density ρ at the considered altitude.

    3- The Lift force must remain within a safe range, tributary of speed and altitude:
    – too small, the plane will fall.
    (as accidentally happened to the B767 Max because of erratic angles of attack)
    https://www.faa.gov/news/safety_briefing/2019/media/SE_Topic_19_04.pdf
    -too high, the plane will break into piece because the air’s dynamic pressure will become too excessive for the aircraft’s body to bear.

    It is as simple as that: the WTC 9/11 “planes”, at high air-density sea level altitude, and at the alleged speed of 530+mph for the UA175, were completely off-the-scale.
    They were not even on the chart provided by Boeing to pilots: they were in imaginary territory, and if real, would have broken in flight long before reaching the Twin Towers.

    The WTC “planes” flight is impossible by universal Physics and Engineering standards that are otherwise applied thousands of times everyday all across the world; therefore, it never happened.

    • LOL: Fran Taubman
    • Replies: @schnellandine
  344. @Ron Unz

    Instead, it’s exactly what you would expect to see during a controlled demolition. Indeed, that Dutch demolition expert was shown a video of the WTC 7 collapse by a documentary crew without being told what it was, and said it was perfect example of very well-done controlled demolition. A few years later, the clip of his statement got massive attention after it was aired by Iran’s PressTV, and a couple of days later, the unfortunate expert mysteriously died in a single-car traffic accident, thereby encouraging other demolition experts to be more cautious in their own public statements.

    But really who cares about controlled demolition and what demolition experts say? Really who cares? Things are impossible until they happen in reality. How many times has the seeming impossible happened in science. The controlled demolition is a strawman argument. There were airplanes that hit the twin towers. People died on those airplanes as witnessed surviving family members. The Arab high jackers talked to control centers at take off and during flight. They openly identified themselves. All else is pretty extraneous. Controlled demolition? So the high jackers were a smoke screen to cover the controlled demolition by the Jews? A plot to make it look like Muslims but really was Jews. You could not possibly involve that many people in a conspiracy, and why would you? Why not go with the known facts and work from there? That is what scientist and engineers do. A plot within a plot within a subplot is not the way a conspiracy works. Just perform a demolition on the towers with fake Arabs. Who needs airplanes?

    Engineers and scientist say that the fully loaded airplane tanks of jet fuel ignited a fire that created enough heat to melt the center core beams simultaneously causing a pancake effect like that of a controlled demolition from the bottom but in reverse. People in the elevators had jet fuel poured on them from the shafts. Their skin burned off and it was proven to be jet fuel. Did they do a make up job on these people to simulate jet fuel to throw the scent off of the controlled demolition? How many eyewitness and provable facts do you need to disprove to tie your conspiracy together?

    The reason the 9/11 truther movement has failed is the same reason that Holocaust denial has folded (it no longer exists as a forum in any sense) is because the origins are to create a conspiracy around Jew obsession. People obsessed with Jews create these theories. People like yourself. Like who cares about the USS Liberty other than people with Jew obsessions. How many fog of war situations have caused friendly fire disasters. The Liberty was not the first. But Jew obsession fuels the constant ad nauseam rehash of a clear fog of war situation of the Liberty.

    You yourself Ron have run out of conspiracies fueled by Jew obsession and have moved on to Covid being an American bio warfare weapon which is so laughable that no one other than Godfrey Roberts a stealth chinaman believes it.

    At one time your conspiracy theories had interest and attraction because of your diligent seemingly scientific approach which created long, long detailed articles that were well impressive in composition, writing and research. But let’s face it second time around on the same Jew obsession articles have fallen way short of anyone much caring about these conspiracies ( these ridiculous aeronautical drawings and videos). Common. You are intelligent you know how many people stood at skyscraper windows on all floors in many states and burrows along the Hudson River and saw and heard those airplanes. So who needs or cares about controlled demolition? Who you might ask. People with Jew obsession.

    I doubt any of these conspiracy theories will make it 3rd time around except to entertain the deranged. I fell sorry for people like Laurent Ganeaux who is a smart and thoughtful man writing about his Jew obsession JFK conspiracy.

    While I have you, it appears that Gilad Atzmon has disappeared, and why do you allow people on this thread to post personal attacks unrelated to the article on 9/11. Comments that are off topic. A UR moderated review of the post that you are usually diligent about?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  345. @Iris

    (as accidentally happened to the B767 Max because of erratic angles of attack)

    Ah, the… B767 Max. Yes, of course I recall that pl- Wait a minute; I don’t recall that plane!

    1 – The Lift is the upward force that counteracts the aircraft’s Weight downward force and keeps it from falling. It is created by air’s dynamic pressure, thanks to the shape of the wings, because the air moving above the wing is faster than the air below it.

    Ever seen an airplane in sustained inverted flight?

    FO, Iris. You cannot prevail with your ignorant cut/paste trivia. You do not understand. You don’t even weigh the drivel before posting. You have no idea what AoA is. I breathe this stuff for lunch, and you’re pasting irrelevant crap thinking it’ll convey meaning?

    Go up in a plane sometime and do stalls/spins. You might begin then to understand AoA. Fly inverted, level and sustained, then tell me some pop-BS about Bernoulli. Try to understand now: Supposedly, airplane wings must be shaped a certain way to partake of Bernoulli’s principle. Okay, how then how do planes maintain altitude when inverted? How do aerobatic planes with symmetric airfoils get off the ground at all?

    The worst part is that Bernoulli has almost nothing to do with the alleged 9/11/2001 attacks, but you’re so ignorant that you can’t begin to discern that. You are only pasting stuff that sounds impressive and mind-boggling to you, after frenzied web searches.

    and at the alleged speed of 530+mph for the UA175, were completely off-the-scale.

    What scale? Explain.

    They were not even on the chart provided by Boeing to pilots:

    What chart? Explain.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  346. @schnellandine

    Why bother? Her Jew obsession will not let her bias go. She has it all figured out. There is only one explanation. There were no planes because the Jews did a controlled demolition. Her obsession will not let her understand reason. But it is mind boggling that she keeps posting these charts like she understands this stuff. And to her it is so logical that it is just a matter of time before everyone in the aeronautical world gets it. Odd something that is so simple and as plane as day where she declares it physically impossible that airplanes could not fly into the WTT in normal time and space that no one in the real world of aeronautics or engineering has seen Iris’s point? Odd no?. She is shameless in her stupidity. Everyone is controlled by Jews that is why the world does not get it. The Jews will not let the truth come out.!!

  347. @Fran Taubman

    If you don’t want to be written off as careless would you please explain your reference to the hijackers talking to control centres “at take off” AND your reference to steel being melted rather than just weakened.

    Mind you some of the stories of molten steel in the rubble are something else again….

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  348. @Ron Unz

    Here is a serious suggestion for finding a way to test the all important controlled demolition hypothesis (I.e that the NIST explanation won’t do).

    Use GoFundMe to raise what it would take to persuade a demolition contractor to test the anti-truther hypothesis on a steel framed high rise building.

    How would it be done? Arrange a pre-agreed simulation of the damage done by the aircraft strikes about 15 to 20 floors from the top. Then distribute X gallons of aviation fuel over about 4 floors and detonate it. The furnishings etc in the buildings over the critical floors would have to be part of it too.

    At \$100 each from the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth you should be well on the way. At worst the demolition contractor is going to have to start again with conventional methods

    • LOL: Fran Taubman
  349. @Wizard of Oz

    There are existing recordings of the people working in the control towers. I have heard it many times.
    Here is a youtube recording, but there is in existence control tower recordings straight thru the morning. More detailed than this youtube portion. Mohamed Atta’s voice is clearly heard.

    I do not know about the columns being weakened or melted. I am not a student of this stuff. The report was that the airplane fuel caused a fire strong enough to melt steel. The center support columns and beams in the towers were in a grid pattern interlocking. The sprinkler system failed and the weekend columns and beams collapsed and pancaked onto the next floor. There is a lot written about this you do not need me to find these facts out. Just google it.

    • Troll: Al Liguori
  350. More voice recordings from airplanes to the control tower.

    • Replies: @Al Liguori
    , @Al Liguori
  351. @Fran Taubman

    There really is a problem with people who don’t pay careful attention to what words mean when they are unmbiguous. You have completely failed to address the logical problem I pointed to of your reference to Mohammed Atta (or other hijackers) being recorded [from the cockpit!!] “at take off”. Do you really not see the problem of hijackers getting into the cockpit while the plane is still on the runway, killing the pilots, removing at least one from his seat, getting into his seat and talking with a completely different accent to air traffic control that notices nothing and still gives the instructions and permissions for take off!!??

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  352. Al Liguori says: • Website
    @Fran Taubman

    [yawn] More (((false flag))) theatre from Fran. Her lips are moving and it smells like brimstone.

    Evidence against her Jew ‘splaining hasbara: https://judaism.is/false-flags.html

    • LOL: schnellandine
  353. Al Liguori says: • Website
    @Fran Taubman

    MORE REAL-TIME EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY: “It’s definitely a bomb!”

    9/11 New York WTC World Trade Center Twin Towers (Part 1) Unseen Footage Eyewitness

    [MORE]

    Part 1 Time Stamps:

    People falling out of the building across the video.

    10:15 beginning

    11:10 more people fall out of the building

    Rigor mortis has set in among still unsuspecting observers.

    11:25 Explosion of the second tower. No plane is heard, only an explosion. There is no talk about any plane.

    From 12:20 there is talk about bombs.

    12:50 Woman says “It’s definitely a bomb.”

    13:46 Man “It is a bomb, they knew everyone will be looking at it, this is sick.”

    15:50 A woman starts asking the question in the round if it was a plane or a bomb…. all answer, “a bomb”…. Woman: “…because they [media] say it was a plane.”

    Man ”What are they talking about? It just suddenly exploded out of nowhere. It just blew up!... 2 minutes ago”

    9/11 New York WTC World Trade Center Twin Towers (Part 2) Unseen Footage Eyewitness

    Part 2 Time Stamps:

    People falling out of the building across the video.

    16:18 Man “There was no fucking plane! What the fuck are (((they))) talking about?

    16:36 The group is now starting to have doubts.

    20:20 Another woman asks if it was a plane. Man unequivocally denies it flew into the air.

    23:40 Man who was on 59 floor, made it down, has no idea if it was a plane.

    24:46 Broken glass on ground even though explosion was upstairs. Reference to explosions underground at the WTC.

    31:58 The cameraman is asked by a passerby what happened, he answers that he doesn’t know what happened to the first tower but the second tower blew up. It was a bomb. “Definitely a bomb,” he repeats. The passerby repeats the official info, the cameraman contradicts him convincingly.

    At the end he repeats himself: “It was a bomb.”

    https://judaism.is/false flags.html

  354. @Fran Taubman

    You wrote:

    Mohamed Atta’s voice is clearly heard [in those tapes broadcast by the ever reliable CNN – the benchmark of honest journalism].

    Well Fran, I guess that settles it.

    Seeing as you’ve met Mohamed Atta in person and clearly recognise his voice (as opposed to the voice of any random Habib who was recruited to read from a script), it’s case closed.

    • LOL: Iris
    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  355. @Truth Vigilante

    Seeing as you’ve met Mohamed Atta in person and clearly recognise his voice (as opposed to the voice of any random Habib who was recruited to read from a script), it’s case closed.

    So all of it was faked. No control tower person said “hey I do not remember that conversation. It is fake”. It is not just Atta. There are other conversations from the plane from stewardess etc. Phone calls from different locations at the same time. Many people involved. People screaming. All fake.
    Impossible to get that many people to go along with a lie. Impossible. Like saying you seeing the sun coming up in the morning is fake.

    TV. Sorry but you sound like a little kid on a skateboard never been anywhere done anything. Just a goofball with a Jew obsession who read some science and think. I got this figured out. There is so much of this story above your head. Have you ever left Australia? You have never been to New York, EVER spoken to New Yorkers. People do not lie on masse not in this town. Not in New York. Go out and see the world TV. Learn a skill get a job. Do something with your life. Because this 9/11 stuff is a dead end. You need to focus on something more worth while. Take all that 9/11 truther energy and apply it to something that will really get you somewhere. Just try.

  356. @Wizard of Oz

    You have completely failed to address the logical problem I pointed to of your reference to Mohammed Atta (or other hijackers) being recorded [from the cockpit!!] “at take off”

    Excuse the hell out of me for mis stating “take off “. That is your take on those tapes? That I am incompetent, that the data and recordings are false. No you are correct the hijackers were not in control on take off. I was incorrect. But that is scarcely the point of the conversations. More like “We got some airplanes we are headed back to the airport”. The voice of Mohammed Atta while TAKING OVER THE PLANE. A MUSLIM ARAB.
    Got that?

    • Replies: @Al Liguori
    , @Wizard of Oz
  357. Al Liguori says: • Website
    @Fran Taubman

    9/11 and the Israeli Bomb Expert Infiltrated Art Groups: GELATIN (demolition wiring team) and E-TEAM (sol-gel EXPLOSIVE TEAM)
    https://steemit.com/conspiracy/@budz82/9-11-and-the-israeli-bomb-expert-infiltrated-art-groups-gelatin-demo-wiring-team-and-e-team-sol-gel-team

    • Agree: Iris
  358. augusto says: • Website

    I use to adopt the following method, at least down here in the tropics.
    Initially as the subject shows up, you point out to the interlocutor: you certainly know from school time what is a free fall of an object from a top of a building. And the second Newton s law of accelleration.
    –of course I know.
    –Then I need poke up your memory: how many buildings did fall in New York in the 9\11 th?
    — Two, of course I saw that a hundred times on TV.
    That s where you take your cellphone out of’ pocket, give it a google with the word tags ” WTC Building 7”. There comes half a dozen results of Wtc-7 falling down upon itself in a few seconds.
    –Well this is the 3rd one, dropping in perfect ‘self’ demolition in NY in the same day. But nobody has died: people were all evacuated in the morning.
    And the flwg question is WHY did the press-TV hide out and did not tell you that to this very date?
    ,,,
    It usually shakes their beliefs.

    • Agree: Iris
  359. @Fran Taubman

    You are surrounded by nutty truthers and antisemites o UR threads. It pays to be calm and careful.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  360. @Fran Taubman

    You wrote:

    So all of it was faked. No control tower person said “hey I do not remember that conversation. It is fake”

    You hit it on the head – it was indeed all faked.

    Of course, the Air Traffic Control did receive a call from someone claiming to be the hijacker, but if that wasn’t a paid actor pretending to be a Habib, it could well have been a Mossad operative (they have plenty that speak Arabic, so faking the accent is a piece of cake).

    Watch the following 16 min video Fran and see for yourself that it was impossible for those alleged mid-air phone conversations from the passengers and crew (utlising cellphones) to have occurred:



    Video Link
    As for this comment of yours:

    There are other conversations from the plane from stewardess etc.

    …. you need only reference the last minute of the video above and listen to the stewardess Cee Cee Lyles who leaves a message for her husband.

    Yes, that was a REAL CALL, but it was not made mid flight.

    It was made from the GROUND. No doubt the passengers and crew of UA93 were corralled in detention somewhere on the ground and Cee Cee Lyles was forced to read those lines about the hijacking from a prepared script.

    She still has the presence of mind to say: ‘It’s a frame’ at the end to alert her husband of the fraud.

    So, you’re probably thinking, what happened to Cee Cee and the rest of the passengers and crew, seeing as they’ve never been heard of again ?

    Clearly, like the passengers and crew of the other three flights, they were disposed of.(No passengers died from crashes that day – as drones were used).
    Seeing as nearly three thousand Americans were murdered that day, do you think the perpetrators of 9/11 really lost any sleep over killing a few more ?

    • Replies: @The Old Philosopher
  361. @Wizard of Oz

    You are surrounded by nutty truthers and antisemites o UR threads. It pays to be calm and careful.

    No really? I had not much noticed. LOL.

    • Replies: @Al Liguori
  362. @Fran Taubman

    You wrote:

    There is so much of this story above your head. Have you ever left Australia? You have never been to New York, EVER spoken to New Yorkers.

    As always Fran, you make assumptions about people based on nothing but your flawed intuition.

    I’ve made dozens of overseas trips, which include numerous journeys to the U.S.

    I’ve been to NYC and stayed a week with family friends in Yonkers.
    I recall going to the Qantas office, at that time located in 5th Avenue, to reschedule a flight.

    Fran, you may have noticed that I have been avoiding responding to your comments of late, because they’re so juvenile and based on easily disproved official MSM/U.S government narratives, that it’s not worth my while to engage with you.

    You’ve never attempted to seek information from entities that don’t have a dog in the race.

    It’s a bit tiring hearing your rants claiming that we anti-Semites said ‘Jews, as a collective, orchestrated 9/11’, and thus we should conduct a pogrom of the Jews.

    There a a hell of a lot of Jews that have done and continue to do great work in the 9/11 Truth movement and they, like myself, acknowledge that an egregious crime was committed on that day – which became the pretext for the U.S to commit further crimes through their wars of aggression.

    It is evident that individuals that IDENTIFY as Jews are the prime movers in this crime (be they Israeli nationals or dual citizenship Israeli-Americans like Michael Chertoff).

    Many Jews in the truth movement just want those responsible for 9/11 to be identified and prosecuted. If the criminals just happen to be Jewish then so be it. If they’re from another tribe, lock them up too.
    This was NEVER about race.

    It is in the interest of law abiding Jews to prosecute and punish those Jews that are impugning the reputation of their brethren and dragging said ethnicity into the mud.

    Is that really so much to ask ?

    Did you want to comfort and support Bernie Madoff in the aftermath of his financial exploitation of the Jewish community ?

    Similarly, as a gentile, I want Dick Cheney, Dubya and Rumsfeld (although it’s too late for the latter*), to be punished for their roles in the 9/11 False Flag.

    (*Of course it’s never too late to conduct a symbolic gesture and give Rumsfeld the Oliver Cromwell treatment).

    You also wrote:

    People do not lie on masse not in this town. Not in New York.

    I’ve never accused New Yorkers, as a collective of lying, although there’d no doubt be more than few amongst them capable of telling some whoppers.

    On that day, New Yorkers heard some planes, they SAW some planes strike the buildings and then saw the buildings falls down and hence assumed that the buildings fell down as a result of the plane impacts (although somehow THREE buildings collapsed from only two impacts).

    New Yorkers (and others around the world), who slavishly follow what the MSM tell them, had their beliefs reinforced when PAID YES-MEN were trotted out (alleged to be scientists and experts in structural engineering), saying that the jet fuel fires caused such intense heat that the core supports melted and the buildings pancaked down.

    People like yourself Fran, that don’t have the slightest inkling of what does and doesn’t constitute the Laws of Physics, just lapped up what your wise government overlords told you without application of critical thinking.

    Let me put things in perspective for you Fran without any technical jargon.

    Each of the Twin Towers was constructed of around 500,000 tons of high grade structural steel and concrete.
    Each of the 767 aircraft that impacted weighed around 100 tons.

    The ratio of one to the other is 5000 to 1..

    Can you comprehend that ? It’s like a small sparrow running into your chest at full speed.

    Yes, it may well hurt. It may well draw a droplet or two of blood but that’s about it.

    In the case of WTC 1 & 2, there were some nice pyrotechnics in the immediate aftermath of each impact. The typical observer would’ve assumed there’d been a hell of a lot of damage done, right ?

    Not at all.

    The buildings could have sustained a DOZEN IMPACTS FROM EQUIVALENT AIRCRAFT and each building would not have collapsed in its entirety.

    In fact, absent any other external forces, said buildings would’ve stood for a THOUSAND YEARS before complete collapse*..

    (*And said collapse in a thousand years would’ve been due to corrosion/erosion accumulated from a millennium of natural weather events).
    In the case of the ‘Dozen planes impacting’ scenario that I suggested, I’m not saying that there would not have been localised collapse, in the region of impact.
    Undoubtedly there would have been.

    BUT, the building structure below the point of impact would have been unaffected by what happened in the upper floors and would have lost NONE OF ITS STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY OR LOAD BEARING CAPACITY.

    Hence the reason why it would’ve stood for centuries to come.

  363. @Truth Vigilante

    So, you’re probably thinking, what happened to Cee Cee and the rest of the passengers and crew, seeing as they’ve never been heard of again ?

    Clearly, like the passengers and crew of the other three flights, they were disposed of.(No passengers died from crashes that day – as drones were used).
    Seeing as nearly three thousand Americans were murdered that day, do you think the perpetrators of 9/11 really lost any sleep over killing a few more ?

    Sorry TV but you are starting to sound like Iris. The bodies were disposed of? Oh really. How did they do that? Who did it? How many people were involved? Where did they put the bodies? Did anyone see them killing and destroying bodies or burning them. Did a crew of people take them to another planet?
    Hundreds of bodies were disposed of . Common get serious. Who? Where ? And why? Did they line them up and shoot them? Dig ditches and bury them?

    Only retarded or deeply disturbed people could think that drones hit the towers and and that all of those passengers on three different airplanes landed in another location with no one seeing an airplane landing on an imaginary runway. Flights are tracked by satellites? You do know that planes cannot disappear. Then the passengers disembarked the airplanes and were disposed of? Seriously Disposed of? How do you do that with no one seeing that happen. Satellites never picked that up? Then what did they do with the airplanes? Blow them up? How do you dispose of passenger jet airliners? What do you do with them?

    Life is for the rational and sane. You cannot possibly answer these questions in a rational or sane way. It is not possible for these events to occur in a vacuum. Not on planet earth.

    You can come up with questions about phone calls from the airplanes not being able to work. Although they were not at 30,000 feet when the calls were made. You can have many questions that do not add up. But to say that the there were drones and someone disposed of 3 jets and passengers. Well good luck convincing people of that with literally no evidence. None.

  364. @Truth Vigilante

    Elias Davidsson in Hijacking America’s Mind on 9/11: Counterfeiting Evidence examines in detail the taped phone conversations as these have been provided by official sources like the FBI asnd the 911 Commission report and exposes how they had to be scripted. Among the anomalies he identifies are the complete absence of fear in the voices of any of the callers even though some of the calls were allegedly made just moments before the planes allegedly crashed and the complete absence of jet engine noise that had to be audible had the calls been made from an airborne aircraft.

  365. Al Liguori says: • Website
    @Fran Taubman

    The bodies were disposed of? [sic] Oh really. How did they do that? Who did it?

    The Germans did it. After all the Germans were able to hide 6 gazillion kosher corpses.

    [laughing]

  366. @Fran Taubman

    You wrote:

    . But to say that the there were drones and someone disposed of 3 jets and passengers.

    The aircraft themselves were not disposed of. (I recall that at least two of them are recorded to have been in service for several more years).

    As for where the passengers and crew went, seeing as they haven’t showed up in the interim and NONE of them died in the crashes (as unmanned remotely flown drones were deployed), they were obviously disposed of.

    As to where they were disposed of and such,, why are you asking me ?
    I had nothing to do with their demise.

    Why don’t you ask those frequent attendees at those lavish dinner parties you host – people like Dov Zakheim, Richard ‘The Prince of Darkness’ Perle, Michael Chertoff and Philip Zelikow.

    They have all the answers.

  367. @Truth Vigilante

    I take it you are quoting yourself when you, confusingly, put the following in a block quote:

    BUT, the building structure below the point of impact would have been unaffected by what happened in the upper floors and would have lost NONE OF ITS STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY OR LOAD BEARING CAPACITY.

    You fail to understand that the lower structures are built to hold up only the static load of the floors above. Once you destroy the support given by some floors and allow the kinetic energy of falling floors above to build up you have to take account of that additional force.

    • Replies: @Truth Vigilante
  368. @Fran Taubman

    But to say that the there were drones and someone disposed of 3 jets and passengers. Well good luck convincing people of that with literally no evidence. None.

    The cell phone problem is evidence, from which certain acts might be seen as required. You misuse the word ‘evidence’.

    If you believe the state’s conspiracy theory, you’ll believe anything.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  369. Al Liguori says: • Website
    @Fran Taubman

    Your compulsive lying, Fran, is what draws you to Chabad. https://judaism.is/chabad.html

  370. PeterAG says:
    @dimples

    The purpose of the perps who targeted the Pentagon with that ‘dummy’ missile may have been for the pentagon staff to identify it as a known type of nuclear warhead with the hope that the subsequent reasoning would make someone in the chain of command determine that there may have been similar missiles now lying, yet unexploaded inside the holes high up in the twin towers.
    This is the point made by Dmitri Khalezov who claims there was, after the previous attack against the wtc, an emergency demolition plan prepared for just such a case.
    And that whoever was at the top of the chain of command at that moment would be the one to press the ‘red button’ for demolition.
    Quite in tune with that suggestion the first tower that went down followed about 15 minutes after the Pentagon hit.
    DK noted that the three top figures in the chain of command were inaccessible at that particular moment.

    • Replies: @skrik
    , @Iris
  371. @schnellandine

    If you believe the state’s conspiracy theory, you’ll believe anything.

    Well doesn’t that work both ways Schnell? You truthers will believe in anything, to prove it was an inside Mossad job. TV and other truthers constantly bring up arguments about this and that and say prove me wrong? Prove to you that there are not fake recordings of Atta. That there is no jet noise in the background. Impossible to make phone calls at high altitudes etc etc. Always, Always the onus is on us the believers in the state story to prove your accusations wrong.

    And here is TV:

    As to where they were disposed of and such,, why are you asking me ?
    I had nothing to do with their demise.

    Why don’t you ask those frequent attendees at those lavish dinner parties you host – people like Dov Zakheim, Richard ‘The Prince of Darkness’ Perle, Michael Chertoff and Philip Zelikow.

    They have all the answers.

    I need to ask the supposed perpetrators where the bodies are? I need to disprove your point? How does that work? No No. YOU TRUTHERS need to show where the bodies are. You are the ones saying that they did not die in plane crashes. The onus is on you. Where are those hundreds of disposed bodies? huh? Where? Did the perpetrators burn them, bury them, dump them into the sea. And where is the proof that the airplanes are in use? Where are the airplanes that did not crash into the towers?

    I am not a rocket scientist but I would much rather dispute phone calls and tape recordings than finding the bodies of the 265 people that died at the hands of government agents and the Mossad. That is not 5 people. That is 265 from 4 different locations. Where are those people buried? How could that happen and no one see what was going on, or where the jets landed. Where did the Jets land? Where? Not a very easy thing to hide.

    No it is up to TV and the truthers not me asking Richard Pearl and others where the bodies are. You got to be kidding me to say oh go ask the government where the bodies are. How hare brained is that scenario You need to prove that those jets landed somewhere and that the people disembarked were murdered and disposed. DISPOSED.

    No one in the surrounding area saw or heard anything? Big jets landing. People being shot. That the passengers did not manage to communicate what was going on. Come on where is the evidence?

    You are all so tin horn it is laughable to sane universe. Would you notice a stray jet landing near your town in some field?

  372. skrik says:
    @PeterAG

    Dmitri Khalezov is an outright charlatan, not just ‘off the planet’ but ‘all the way off,’ and quite mad with it.

    No DEW, no dustification and no nukes; WTCs 1, 2 & 7 were ‘control’ demolished via pre-planted PETN and/or RDX etc. = conventional explosives including cutters and flippers + det-cord threaded into the electrical conduits within the WTC 1 & 2 floor-slabs.

    We do not need to follow any red-herrings down whatever rabbit-holes [Pentagon and Pennsylvanian fields are ‘no 757’ territories]; after 20 years all ‘enquiring minds’ should have acquainted themselves with the facts long ago.

    Just how young are you? At all foolish? No reasonable adults within reach? Sad.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @PeterAG
  373. @skrik

    Now see that is what is so great about the Truther community. You all trash each other more inside than the outside community. No two truthers see it the same way and you bury each other promoting your own individual conspiracy. You got to love it. Do you all realize how much you hate each other?

    Just asking where are the bodies and crickets?

    • Replies: @skrik
  374. @Fran Taubman

    Well doesn’t that work both ways Schnell? You truthers

    Fran, you are not intelligent. You’re how old, and have apparently not picked up on the vocative comma and its value? You don’t notice things. You don’t notice things such as that I am not a ‘truther’. I don’t have enough information to know how the 9/11/2001 attacks were done. I know that the state’s conspiracy theory smells like stinky feet, and that the confidence which state worshipers and most ‘truthers’ have in their theories is disquieting.

    Odd that my belief in the mechanical plausibility of half-assed pilots flying into buildings puts the state-bots in my camp, after which some of the same bots turn around and call me ‘truther’. Or maybe it’s to be expected.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  375. skrik says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Do you all realize how much you hate each other?

    “Hate” is an exclusive “j” word [deployed by any others only out of ignorance]; kindly eff-off and not so BTW, your comprehension of 9/11 is in grave error; it was a ZUSA inside-job, all the ~3000 dead from that 9/11 day, and all the millions dead resulting from the subsequent ZUSA ‘GWoT’ attacks upon the ME, were cold-blooded murders, those in NYC murdered by their very own ‘covert agents,’ themselves commanded to do so by ZUSA tyrant rulers.

    Nothing else fits the witnessed reality.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  376. Iris says:
    @PeterAG

    Thanks for the excellent comment, which highlights one of the most important aspects of the 9/11 false flag: how Israel fooled and double-crossed her fellow American co-conspirators, and turned a limited conspiracy into a state crime and a crime against humanity, so as to force the legalist American institutions into participating in the cover up.

    The purpose of the perps who targeted the Pentagon with that ‘dummy’ missile may have been for the pentagon staff to identify it as a known type of nuclear warhead

    Indeed. The Pentagon was hit by a missile carrying a disabled nuclear warhead, fired from very close, by a “friendly” vessel cruising at the limit of US territorial waters, probably an Israeli Dolphin submarine.

    The missile is rumoured to have been of Russian make, stolen from Russia’s arsenals, which explains why Russia long kept her mouth shut on 9/11.

    Once the nuclear warhead, which did not explode, was identified, this triggered the national nuclear emergency alert. This is how and why Silverstein was able to obtain the nuclear codes and release the nuclear charges stored under WTC7, to finally blow up the WTC.

    Dmitri Khalezov who claims there was, after the previous attack against the wtc, an emergency demolition plan prepared for just such a case.

    Khalezov provides the most logical explanation, and actually does not take the merit for it: it is the FBI agents who arrested him , and later befriended him, who resolved the 9/11 cover up enigma.

    During the first WTC attack in 1993, Security briefings envisaged the consequence of a hypothetical, repeated attack, using this time nuclear explosives. The consequences would have been New-York being incinerated. (This was a standard National Response Scenario that has been examined for decades, but NYC had never been attacked before 1993).

    https://www.atomicarchive.com/science/scenarios/newyork/index.html

    “Somebody” then came with a “luminous” idea: if the Twin Towers were to be planted with terrorist nuclear explosives, risking an aerial nuclear explosion that would obliterate NYC, a mitigation measure would be to detonate the Tower themselves. Using their embedded underground nuclear demolition scheme would engulf the terrorist explosives before they detonate. In other terms, a sacrifying the Twin Towers to protect New York was the measure of last resort. This “idea” was then translated into a mandatory procedure.

    Years later, in preparation for 9/11, the entire, very competent, Nuclear Emergency Response Team NEST was deliberately sent away from the East Coast so as to prevent its intervention.

    When the alleged “planes” exploded atop the Twin Towers, Mossad intoxicated American intelligence services with the false information that the buildings had been planted with nuclear explosives, brought by the “planes” or placed beforehand.

    In absence of NEST, hapless and inexperienced security officers, presented with deceptive information, were left to make a life-or-death strategic decision. They blindly applied the fatal Security procedure devised in 1993 and released the nuclear codes to Silverstein and his team. The latter released the nuclear heads stored under WTC7, moved them under each building and detonated the Twin Towers.

    9/11 was organised by the Israelis in the same manner as the JFK assassination. By involving some Americans into a secret action, then double-crossing them and transforming the limited conspiracy into a state crime of major magnitude, they ensured to be in a position to blackmail the US authorities into silence for decades to come.

    The legalist American authorities are bound to cover up the 9/11 atrocity, not to hide any crime, but to hide their errors and to protect the foundations of the American state.

    But since Israel has made so many enemies, it won’t be a few years until its overwhelming responsibility in the 9/11 nuclear Holocaust and crime against humanity is abundantly exposed worldwide. As American supremacy wanes, fear of Israel will wane too , and the 9/11 reckoning will inevitably happen.

  377. @schnellandine

    Well excuse me it is hard to tell who is what around here. I remember your Jew rant a while back and that is usually the entry point for the truthers. Jew obsession. I am 68. But if you are not a truther my apologies.

    • Replies: @schnellandine
  378. @skrik

    “Hate” is an exclusive “j” word [deployed by any others only out of ignorance]; kindly eff-

    mmmm. I am quite sure I have heard non “J” ‘s discuss and propagate hate much hate. Like have your read much of UR. 99% Jew hatred.

    • Replies: @Al Liguori
  379. Al Liguori says: • Website
    @Fran Taubman

    Nobody but יהודים make a multinational business of hate-pimping for shekels. https://www.judaism.is/hate-pimps.html

    All the more hypocritical when we notice Chabad’s “Kill even the best of the Gentiles…” https://judaism.is/chabad.html

  380. @Fran Taubman

    Jew obsession

    Classic. Jews are openly in charge of nearly every company (broad sense) trying to ruin the world, and noticing it is obsession? It’s obsessive to note that nearly every anti-white proposal or propaganda onslaught is led by… every. single. time.

    Sure.

    No theory. The names and associations are known.

    What’s that jew word your people use to describe outlandish effrontery? Always has to be about jews, and when someone notices this psycho behavior, it’s a problem with the observer.

    • Agree: Al Liguori
    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  381. @Wizard of Oz

    With every day that passes, with every lacking-in-research comment you post here, you further reinforce the widely shared view among UR readers that your ‘Dunce of Oz’ moniker is well warranted.
    Case in Point is this foolish comment of yours referring to the collapse of WTC 1 & 2:

    You fail to understand that the lower structures are built to hold up only the static load of the floors above.
    Once you destroy the support given by some floors and allow the kinetic energy of falling floors above to build up you have to take account of that additional force.

    First of all, no floors ‘fell’ on any lower floor.

    We ALL saw with our own eyes that the towers were BLOWN UP floor by floor, whereby concrete and structural steel was, for the most part, TURNED TO DUST in mid air.

    Said ‘dust’ which was floating about created NO Kinetic Energy worth noting directed towards the lower floors.

    As for the ‘lower structures built to hold ONLY the static load of the floors above’ statement of yours, this is arguably the MOST STUPID remark ever posted in the Unz Review.

    Every skyscraper in the world in the last century or more is built with a ‘redundancy factor’, whereby the floors at any level have a load bearing capacity of AT LEAST FOUR TO FIVE TIMES the likely static load it will encounter.

    In other words, if you’re at a particular floor that has to bear a load of say 200,000 tons of concrete and structural steel above it, said floor will in fact have the capacity to withstand 800,000 to 1 million tons equivalent.

    In fact, WTC 1 & 2 were OVER-ENGINEERED by a GREATER FACTOR still, as evidenced by the following statement from John Skilling (Senior Engineer in the firm that built the Twin Towers):

    The bottom 94 floors of the North Tower of the WTC (plane impacted on the 94th floor), was designed to carry TWENTY (20) TIMES the expected ‘live load’ (ie: physical steel, concrete, office furniture, human beings), due from the upper 16 floors.

    Now, Dunce of Oz, we all get it that you’ve been assigned to the UR to peddle disinformation by your Zio controllers so that one day you may get a promotion to Sayan Grade 3, 4th Class – which entails a few more shekels each month in the pay packet.

    But before posting more nonsense, at least have the courtesy to make sure it has some smidgen of plausibility about it.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Iris
  382. @schnellandine

    Classic. Jews are openly in charge of nearly every company (broad sense) trying to ruin the world, and noticing it is obsession? It’s obsessive to note that nearly every anti-white proposal or propaganda onslaught is led by… every. single. time.

    What a load of crap.

    Amazon is not owned by a Jew
    None of the top US energy companies are owned by Jews.


    ExxonMobil. Industry: Oil & Gas Integrated.
    Chevron. …
    NextEra Energy. …
    Duke Energy. …
    Southern Company. …
    Dominion Energy. …
    ConocoPhillips. …
    Enterprise Products. ..

    Care to give some examples? Most prominent Jews are involved in banking and finance. If you need to raise money to buy a company or start up you go to Jewish banks. Jews are very good at generating cash. If Jeff Bezos needs capitol or needed capitol he went to banks with prominent Jews. But the actual companies producing products or affecting lives is scarcely Jewish. Jews are bankers.

    Wall mart is not owned by Jews and they run the world ragged. Home Depot is Jewish owned and they are one of the best companies in the world. I buy a lot of quality stuff from Home Depot.

    Any of these Jewish owned companies ruining the world. A lot of Ice cream and makeup companies. LOL

    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/prominent-companies-founded-by-jews-in-america

  383. @Fran Taubman

    You wrote:

    No it is up to TV and the truthers not me asking Richard Pearl (sic) and others where the bodies are. You got to be kidding me to say oh go ask the government where the bodies are.

    No, I’m not kidding Fran.

    You’re a known defender of the Zio miscreants and no doubt liaise with other staunch rabid Zionists on a regular basis like your old pal Larry Silverstein.
    In a moment of candour they’re far more likely to reveal it to you seeing as you’re one of them, and they can trust you to keep said info ‘in the vault’. (You know, the ‘Chabad code of honour’).

    C’mon Fran, be a sport. Next time you’re at one of Lucky Larry’s functions, ask these questions and share it with us here in UR.

    Meanwhile, it has been suggested that many the passengers that were unaccounted for on 9/11 (ie: supposedly from the four hijacked aircraft) were herded onto Delta Flight # 1989 and another aircraft which made unscheduled landings at Cleveland Hopkins Airport on the morning of 9/11 as per this article:

    https://bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_911_26.htm

    From the article:

    This article will prove that not one, but two planes made an emergency landing in Cleveland – in close succession. The proof is based on local newspaper and radio reports from September 11th and 12th (mainly from the Akron Beacon Journal and the Cleveland Plain Dealer), statements of eyewitnesses and internet postings in the morning of 9/11 (people were listening to the radio and immediately submitted the breaking news to the net).

    One of the flights was indeed Delta 1989. We don’t know the identity of the other one, so we call it “Flight X”… We start with a short summary of the events in Cleveland. At 10 a.m., the airport was evacuated. Without doubt, this had to do with the rumours that a hijacked plane was going to land. The passengers had to leave the airport but were not allowed to take their car. They had to walk or got a ride at the highway. Buses were not allowed to leave the airport. People around the airport were to to go home. It was a very tense situation.

    These facts are undisputed. Cleveland Mayor Michael White held a televised news conference at 11 a.m., after the emergency landing. According to the Cleveland Plain Dealer, he said there was an unconfirmed report that the plane might have been hijacked or was carrying a bomb. But in the middle of the news conference, he reported that it had not been hijacked, and later in the day he said no bomb had been found. This was not the only detail that changed in the course of the day. In the morning, White said that air controllers could hear screaming on the plane. In the afternoon, he didn’t mention the screams anymore.

    It seems that there was another plane that was diverted to Toledo Ohio as well (from the same article):

    The Toledo Plane

    White reported that another plane was diverted from Hopkins toward Toledo.
    Akron Beacon Journal 9/11/01

    He said airport officials reported that a second airplane in distress had passed through Cleveland airspace earlier Tuesday morning before being handed off to Toledo. Officials at Toledo Express Airport did not immediately have any information about a plane headed from Cleveland.
    Associate Press, 9/11/01

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  384. @Truth Vigilante

    I noted of illustrating at length why truthers have failed to make a serious impression you should read this

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2001/11/19/the-tower-builder

    And reflect on why so many people who were both expert and had motive to scream “controlled demolition” failed to do so.

    Has it also not occurred to you that clever plotters would have reduced their risks many times over and increased the damage by causing the kind of demolitions that were apparent in the Chinese video I posted of the demolition of 15 buildings which collapsed sideways? Including WTC 7 had already blown the Arabs did it all” story….

  385. @Fran Taubman

    Fran writes:

    None of the top US energy companies are owned by Jews.

    and then goes on to make a list of them starting with the two heavyweights Exxon Mobil (ticker symbol XOM) and Chevron (CVX).

    Well, I did a search of the major shareholders of said companies above and found that two of the top three shareholders were Jewish owned/controlled Vanguard Group and Blackrock.

    Oh dear Fran, you’re going to have to do better than that with your misdirection.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  386. @Truth Vigilante

    Where are the bodies? I do not know Larry Silverstein.

    Wow Woody Box. Who the fuck is he. You can pick any information off the internet to support anything you want. Woody Box. What are his credentials. Gosh TV where are the bodies?

    • Replies: @Truth Vigilante
  387. @Fran Taubman

    company (broad sense)

    You don’t notice things. You don’t notice paren notes. You don’t notice language. You don’t want to pursue this line, because it would be farcical. But you won’t listen!

    At least pause long enough to peruse a somewhat reliable definition list for ‘company’. It was not chance that led me to include that paren note.

    Hint: UR commenters are a company.

  388. Mac_ says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Would debate on the one claim that people can’t be disappeared, which would say is misguided because relies on the premise that you have any control of systems people have been falsely trained to rely on to know things, i.e. supposed media, or electronic communications. For instance in large scale, last century millions were killed in takeovers, in russia also ukraine, and people here knew nothing about it, even as they contributed to it by food production for military or gulags and other via the ‘lend lease’ scheme in roosevelt years and later, that’s beside later false wars in vietnam and after nine eleven. So as you say it’s not possible to do ‘anywhere on earth’, those in the schemes have had their way long before now, because people allowed big governments and front corporations to form, and do what they want, as people rely on media, who are strangers. In more recent times the mistake of presuming, also relying on false systems assuming you have info at leisure, google does image patching on maps to block view of countless areas, so you cannot see what it actually there or not. So two points, media can block by using omission, hiding what’s really going on and otherwise steering attention to what they want, and the web is controlled, including maps, and then there is other method of blocking due only a few corporations controlling phones, which of course they can just cut off. In any case by one means or another people can be disappeared because masses of people made no means of communication separate from media, or monopolist corporations, or, more at base, because people didn’t make tribes as a way of living instead, making and controlling communications directly, ourselves.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  389. @Truth Vigilante

    So TV this is from Woody Box’s Illuminati website. I can join and will receive 12 mullion dollars and \$50,000 each month. Are you a member. That site of Woody’s is so so convincing. Dude has his facts doesn’t he. Where are the bodies. These passengers never made it back home.

    MONEY MEANS NOTHING TO THOSE WHO PRINT IT.
    There are no poor kings or queens or presidents. Even pontiffs are richer than most on this planet. As a member of the Illuminati Brotherhood you will be receiving 12 million US dollars cash. To bring you up the standard of an enlighten soul including. you will also receive monthly salary of \$50,000 for men and 55,000 for female as stated in our terms.

    AUTHORITY
    You will also be receiving the Illuminati book of knowledge,necklace of fame and respect and the ring of power.

    • Replies: @The Old Philosopher
  390. Al Liguori says: • Website
    @Fran Taubman

    Rubbish. The interlocking directorates controlled by Jews directly and indirectly through shabbos goyim have been revealed.

    the preminence of Jews in economic crimes against humanity

    The Jewish “central banks” have, of course, taken pains for centuries to conceal their concentrated power with interlocking Boards and Directorates. but this reality is being penetrated.

    “Using a database which listed 37 million companies and investors worldwide, the researchers studied all 43,060 trans-national corporations (TNCs), including the share ownerships linking them…” to map their worldwide power.

    The Global Banking ‘Super-Entity’ Drug Cartel: The “Free Market” of Finance Capital
    by Andrew Gavin Marshall
    https://web.archive.org/web/20121103153524/http://andrewgavinmarshall.com/2012/10/28/the-global-banking-super-entity-drug-cartel-the-free-market-of-finance-capital/

    Of course the original was scrubbed!

    These 40,000+ are not the “1%.” They are the (((0.005%)))!

    [MORE]

    Revealed – the capitalist network that runs the world
    by Debora Mackenzie and Andy Coghlan, The New Scientist, October 19, 2011
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228354.500-revealed--the-capitalist-network-that-runs-the-world.html#.UfApTxZ0vyv

    The network of global corporate control
    by Stefania Vitali, James B. Glattfelder, and Stefano Battiston
    Systems Design, ETH Zurich, Kreuzplatz 5, 8032 Zurich, Switzerland
    https://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/1107/1107.5728v2.pdf

    How stereotypical that Fran points to one or a few shabbos goyim and pretends that she has exculpated her Synagogue of Satan.

    The evil we document is derivative of that Satanic creed called Judaism.

    The foundation of all Jewish malevolence is Judaism’s fundamental that “Only Jews are human.” Because we Gentiles are not human, Jews teach that they can deceive, loot, enslave, rape, and kill us with impunity—as long as there is no blowback on Satan’s chosen.

    Chabad is documented to proselytize such evil ( https://judaism.is/chabad.html ). In the face of the evidence, Fran has unconvincingly denied the teachings of her very own Chabad.

    For millennia the Synagogue of Satan in all its various disguises (Moed Katan 17a) has instigated fratricidal wars, murderous revolutions, economic crimes against humanity, genocide, abortion, porn, perversion, etc. God Himself has repeatedly damned them for such evils, yet they remain unrepentant.

    The sooner that they are in the docket of real Nuremberg trials—real evidence, real cross-examination, and incontrovertible facts—the better for mankind. https://judaism.is/nuremberg.html Every single perpetrator and accomplice must be chased down the same way that nonagenarian clerks and janitors who killed nobody at Auschwitz have been apprehended and prosecuted.

    Mankind must be protected from Judaism and Jews—much as during most of Christendom.

  391. @Mac_

    Well that sound good in the abstract Mac. But this disappearing is something different. The people from these airplanes had families. So someone in your family lets say a wife a daughter whatever goes to take a flight somewhere, and you never see them again. They were supposed to have died in a plane crash but the lunatics of the truthers say that the plane never crashed and killed those people.
    So the family members of these people are asking “well what happened to them” where did they go?
    Where are they?

    It is a startlingly simple question that needs to be answered by responsible truthers not nut job illuminati name Wood. who have sources that say they landed in Cleveland. How fucking lame is that. Where are the bodies. Family members want to know. Wouldn’t you want to know?

  392. Mac_ says:
    @Fran Taubman

    You make a good point, it’s the base premises though could be questioned first, and suggest as in an order, which given the many fabrications could first ask were they any people, then if so, consider the overly spread out and disconnected populace, where if people disappeared, and media doesn’t care, any family didn’t have some bunch of friends to riot with etc to get attention, how would we know if the families were saying anything or not. There is disconnected social aspect, or, media who can block out. Same with controlled internet, some website crying for help can just be buried so unless you have direct link it wouldn’t come up in searches. Or they could just kill the family members also. So that’s if there were people, and if there weren’t, your ending question is good in that it should make people think, sort possible answers, such as the few suggested, and in any case increase suspicions on the whole. Not that people are lacking in obvious glaring examples of nonsense and danger and put-ons from the connivers and threat pushers and drama masters running the place -because people don’t ask enough questions.

  393. Al Liguori says: • Website
    @Fran Taubman

    To quote you, Fran, “What a load of [Chabadniks]!”

    We have seen millennia of (((liars))) claiming victimhood while sanctimoniously claiming innocence of wrongdoing, never taking responsibility for their own malevolent, rapacious, and genocidal behavior.

    You have an ancient tradition of lying victimhood beginning with ridiculous self-reports of victimhood in tractate Gittin 57b of your so-called “Torah,” https://www.judaism.is/holocaust.html#liarstradition
    — the 4 billion (yes, billion) Jews killed by the Romans [Gittin 57b claims Vespasian killed “four hundred thousand myriads” = 400,000 x 10,000 = 4 BILLION] and the 64 million Jewish children skewered and burned in scrolls by the Romans in one city alone [Gittin 58a claims “400 synagogues” each with “400 teachers” and “400 pupils” for each teacher” = 400 x 400 x 400 = 64 million]. It is also well-documented that you compulsive liars began whining about “6 million” EVEN BEFORE World War 1! https://www.judaism.is/holocaust.html#hysteria

    We have suffered your lying “eyewitnesses” and your patently absurd explanations for the missing 6 gazillion kosher corpses, then you have the demonic gall to ignore video evidence and real-time testimony, including the confessions of the Dancing Israelis.

    Don’t forget to check your compass heading in the latriine: https://www.judaism.is/potty-voyeurs.html

  394. @Wizard of Oz

    The amazing wizzard post a New Yorker article whose author does his best to substantiate the official story of how the towers were brought down by planes hitting them, citing:

    “. . . Mark Loizeaux, the president of Controlled Demolition Incorporated, a Maryland-based family business that specializes in reducing tall buildings to manageable pieces of rubble. “Within a nanosecond,” he told me. “I said, ‘It’s coming down. And the second tower will fall first, because it was hit lower down.’ ”

    So the nanosecond within which he definitvely concluded that both towers were coming down and even identified the order in which it would happen had to be just after the second tower was struck.

    Knowing for certain that was the case, it’s really strange he did not immediately make an emergency call to the NYFD to warn its chief to keep his fire fighters out of the buildings since any who were within it were sure to die when the towers collapsed. Imagine the lives he would have saved of not only the fire fighters but the occupants had been warnewd to leave immediately rather than be told they should reoccupy the building that they had initially evacuated.

    Did the author asks Mark why he failed to make that call, and did he share with his readers Mark’s answer?

    We’ll never know, because the author he cites mentioned nary a word about this.

    Also funny thing that the fire fighters were so willing to enter the building to engage in rescue and fire fighting if they had the slightest inkling there was any chance that a stell framed building could collapse as the towers did when it had never occurred before or since 911 despite several examples of such buildings being consumed by fires..

    I guess the author left out those explanations expecting to share them with his readers in a subsequent article the author has for inexplicable reasons failed to write to enlighten the world about how things really happend on 911`.

    Good job wizzard.

    • Thanks: Truth Vigilante, Iris
  395. @Fran Taubman

    Responds in part as follows to Truth Vigilante’s comment #392:

    So TV this is from Woody Box’s Illuminati website. I can join and will receive 12 mullion dollars and \$50,000 each month. Are you a member. That site of Woody’s is so so convincing. Dude has his facts doesn’t he. Where are the bodies. These passengers never made it back home.
    To put it in legalese, you have posted a non-responsive answer to Truth Vigilante’s fact based comment.

    But what else can one expect when, in another context, Steven Some, the Chairman of the Jersey Commission on Holocaust Education cautions that those like Truth Vigilante “. . . are very slick people. They justify everything they say with facts and figures” (in the Newark Star Ledger, Oct. 23, 1995, p. 15.)

    Facts and figures really are such a bitch when it comes to refuting them.

  396. @Wizard of Oz

    Why do you bother posting articles from any mainstream publication, be it the New Yorker or otherwise ?
    Every newspaper, every widely distributed publication and every TV and radio broadcast with reach (all of which are either owned/controlled or subject to influence from the Zio cabal),was following a script dictated by said cabal that vindicated the official government narrative of ‘Fire induced gravity collapse’, resulting in a pancake collapse.

    Are you so NAIVE that, 20 years after 9/11, you STILL haven’t worked out that you’ll never get the truth about 9/11, JFK, RFK, the USS Liberty incident or countless other Zio orchestrated crimes and False Flags from publications like the New Yorker or equivalent ?

    Evidently you are.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  397. @Fran Taubman

    In relation to this comment of yours:

    ‘Wow Woody Box. Who the fuck is he. You can pick any information off the internet to support anything you want. Woody Box. What are his credentials …. ‘

    …. I don’t have time to devote hours trawling on the internet for the original articles from reputable sources and websites where I discovered the information about the 9/11 planes diverted to Cleveland airport.

    I don’t know who ‘Woody Box’ is and it matters not one way or the other.

    The Woody Box article was the first I found in a quick search that contained all the information that I sought in relation to the Cleveland airport incident.
    Clearly, Woody has himself plagiarised that info from the reputable sources.

    There is a hell of a lot of 9/11 info that I used to be able to easily obtain as recently as 8 – 10 years ago, even using the Google search engine.
    Now, even though I only use Yandex and DuckDuckGo, I find that the Zio cabal have applied algorithms that entail I often have to scroll through dozens of pages of search results before I find what I’m looking for.
    In other cases, the items I’m looking for appear to have been purged altogether.

    Now, in relation to my earlier comment, and for the benefit of other readers who are genuinely interested in knowing what transpired on 9/11 (ie: not you Fran – because in your mind, it’s only true if Rachel Maddow told you so), I want to bring the following passage from Comment # 390 to everyone’s attention, relating to the events at Cleveland airport on the morning of 9/11:

    The passengers had to leave the airport but were not allowed to take their car. They had to walk or got a ride at the highway. Buses were not allowed to leave the airport. People around the airport were to go home. It was a very tense situation.

    The passengers referred to above that ‘had to leave the airport and had to …. walk or ride to the highway’ where NOT the disembarking passengers from the two mystery flights that made an unscheduled stop at Cleveland.

    No, the passengers that I refer to are the passengers that were already at Cleveland airport that were scheduled to board other flights or had disembarked from previous flights.

    ALL of them were forced to abandon the terminal because they were NOT to see, speak or fraternise with anyone from those two mystery flights (because these flights had the rumoured 9/11 passengers on board).

    Has anyone heard of such a thing happening anywhere, or at any time – either on the day of 9/11, before or since ? ie: where the WHOLE AIRPORT WAS EVACUATED (presumably evacuated of airport terminal staff as well – with only a select few remaining that would deal with and dispose of the incoming passengers).

    All I can say is that some mighty strange things went on at Cleveland airport that morning on the day of 9/11.

  398. @Fran Taubman

    Another article of interest relating to the 9/11 Cleveland Airport Mystery with a headline that reads ‘Former Cleveland Mayor Reported Flt.93 Landed There on 9/11’:

    http://911blogger.com/archive/2005/11/former-cleveland-mayor-reported-flt93.html

    From the article:

    On the morning of 9/11 a little known Cincinnati television station ran a story saying Flight 93 landed at Cleveland International Airport instead of crashing into the Pentagon as claimed in the official government story.

    Reporters at WCPO Channel 9 quoted then Cleveland Mayor Michael R. White as saying “a Boeing 767 out of Boston made an emergency landing due to a bomb threat,” the airplane landing safely, moved to a secure location and evacuated.

    The early morning report when on to say United Airlines verified the plane as Flight 93, but was also deeply concerned about another jetliner in the vicinity, Flight 175, flying from Boston to Los Angeles.

    With the evidence trail getting colder and colder, the obvious still must be asked: if Flight 175 was slamming into the South Tower and Flight 93 was downed over Pennsylvania like the government contends, why was Mayor White saying both planes were in or in the vicinity of Cleveland?

    Summary: It is the contention of many that the real UA175 (the aircraft that allegedly slammed into the South Tower) and the real UA93 (the aircraft that was alleged to have crashed in Shanksville PA), did in fact land in Cleveland airport on the morning of 9/11.

    It is indisputable that both aircraft were in the vicinity of Cleveland at some point (even official sources admit to that), and once landed they were replaced by drone equivalents which emitted the same transponder signal and thus Air Traffic Controllers assumed there was continuity of flight.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  399. @The Old Philosopher

    I know you failed truthers are largely beyond help and I don’t really expect you to learn much from anything. But I reply to ask you whether you know that the person you quote as – allegedly – having boasted of seeing immediately what the problem was did in fact attempt to warn the first responders. Was he asked about that? Was his answer left out because he just said “it was so obvious that I couldn’t bore they were doing more than helping a few people escape”. Tell me what you actually know that is of the slightest relevance to my question why even self interested experts didn’t say it was controlled demolition.

    • Replies: @The Old Philosopher
  400. @Truth Vigilante

    It is a joke, on which I won’t waste time, to be called naive by you. s From the e age of 23 I spent over two years working closely with one of the all time Anglosphere insiders. He didn’t have a naive bone in his body and I lost all mine. Part of it is to keep on being well informed. You clearly never have.

  401. @Wizard of Oz

    An even better job, bumble brain. How the hell do I know whether the expert was asked if he tried to warn the NYC fire chief or what his answer was or whaever. In case you hadn’t noticed, I was responding to the contents of an artricle you posted that you declared substantiated the official story, or at leasty debunked those who questioned it. I was relying on what the author you claimed as an expert source wrote. If you want your questions answered, ask that author, not me.

    But you are obviously too stupid to distinguish a comment about the contents of an article from the credbility of the author’s claims based on what he wrote that I was challenging that you ignored entirely. I understand. It’s a real bitcvh to deny real facts and figures.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  402. @Truth Vigilante

    Now, in relation to my earlier comment, and for the benefit of other readers who are genuinely interested in knowing what transpired on 9/11 (ie: not you Fran – because in your mind, it’s only true if Rachel Maddow told you so), I want to bring the following passage from Comment # 390 to everyone’s attention, relating to the events at Cleveland airport on the morning of 9/11:

    The passengers had to leave the airport but were not allowed to take their car. They had to walk or got a ride at the highway. Buses were not allowed to leave the airport. People around the airport were to go home. It was a very tense situation.

    The passengers referred to above that ‘had to leave the airport and had to …. walk or ride to the highway’ where NOT the disembarking passengers from the two mystery flights that made an unscheduled stop at Cleveland.

    First of all I hate absolutely despise Rachel Maddow. I do not know why you think I would like her.
    You may not be able to research the Cleveland incident. But Salon magazine did a detailed study of the claims made in the movie Loose Change. A very detailed article, for those even beyond hope.

    https://www.salon.com/2006/06/27/911_conspiracies/

    You claim:

    On the morning of 9/11 a little known Cincinnati television station ran a story saying Flight 93 landed at Cleveland International Airport instead of crashing into the Pentagon as claimed in the official government story.

    Reporters at WCPO Channel 9 quoted then Cleveland Mayor Michael R. White as saying “a Boeing 767 out of Boston made an emergency landing due to a bomb threat,” the airplane landing safely, moved to a secure location and evacuated.

    Yes in the confusion of 9/11, the air traffic controllers thought that flight 93 was going to Cleveland to land and that it potentially might have a bomb, hence the evacuation and announcement on TV. But the status of flight 93 was quickly updated to not landing in Cleveland.

    This is Avery’s hypotheses:

    United Flight 93 did not crash in Shanksville, Penn. Instead, it landed safely in Cleveland, and 200 people on board were evacuated. Avery says that the debris field in Shanksville showed nothing resembling a downed aircraft, that neither plane parts nor passenger remains were visible at the scene. The movie cites reports of an airplane landing at the Cleveland Hopkins Airport on the morning of 9/11, and in a tangle of logic deduces that, actually, two planes landed there and that one of them was Flight 93. Including hijackers and crew, the official story says that there were 44 people on board Flight 93 when it crashed, but Avery alleges that about 200 people were taken off the plane in Cleveland. He suggests that in addition to Flight 93’s passengers, these 200 people included the passengers of the flights alleged to have crashed into the Pentagon and the trade towers. Avery says, cryptically: “It’s interesting to note that the combined total of all the passengers from all four flights is 198. Or 243. Depending on who you ask.”

    Here is the response to these and your claims regarding the Cleveland incident and flight 93 by an official 9/11 researcher

    Hoffman and other “Loose Change” debunkers offer an even more devastating critique of the movie’s strange claim that Flight 93 ended up in Cleveland. Avery bases his Cleveland idea on a story posted on the Web site of WCPO, a local TV station in Cincinnati, on the morning of 9/11; Avery says that the report proves that “two planes landed at Cleveland Hopkins Airport due to a bomb threat,” and that “United Airlines identified one of the planes as Flight 93.” It turns out that Avery is right that WCPO reported this news on its Web site — but the story was actually authored by the Associated Press wire service, and the AP corrected the news minutes after it was posted, as WCPO has explained. (You’ll recall that false media reports were widespread during that morning’s hysteria.)

    Hoffman finds a host of evidence indicating that Flight 93 crashed in Pennsylvania, including numerous photographs of the Shanksville site — some of which were released as part of the Zacarias Moussaoui trial — in which you can see a deep impact crater and huge airplane parts. Many human remains were found at the scene — according to the Washington Post, searchers discovered “about 1,500 mostly scorched samples of human tissue” around the crash crater. Hoffman also points to flaws in the study that Avery says proves that cellphones wouldn’t have worked at high altitudes. The particular experiment only tested Motorola-brand phones, and it was conducted over London, Ontario, rather than on the flight paths of the 9/11 jets — thus the research says nothing about whether different kinds of phones might have worked in the parts of the sky that the planes flew that morning. Moreover, Hoffman points out, several crew and passengers placed their calls using on-board GTE Airphones designed to work in the sky.

    “‘Loose Change’ speculates that 200 people were somehow herded onto Flight 93 … and then mysteriously disappeared into a NASA research facility,” Hoffman writes. “Could it get any more ridiculous?

    Human remains at the flight 93 crash site. Where are your human remains? At the Cleveland airport? Where are the bodies. Isn’t that what Holocaust deniers constantly ask? Where are the bodies. You need some hard evidence TV? You got nothing but Zios did it.

  403. @The Old Philosopher

    The article does quite specifically say that Loizeaux attempted to make an immediate call and found that all of the lines were busy. “All circuits were busy. I couldn’t get through.” You obviously are not a very careful reader.

    A bit further in the article the author mentions Vincent Dunn who published in 1988 the book Collapse of Burning Buildings. Do you believe that Dunn was part of the conspiracy back in 1988 when he wrote this book?

  404. PeterAG says:
    @skrik

    I dont agree with Khalezov about everything. For example he suggests there is a 6 on the Richter scale and I dont see any sign of that.
    But he correctly brings up the cancer issues which are way to abundant to be explained away as the consequence of other than radioactive agents.
    And private Geiger counters were forbidden. Why if there was no augmented radioactive background.
    Moreover the National Nuclear Security Agency was there promptly wearing radiation protection suitable even if there were only alfa-radiating particles there.
    That agency scanned the whole area before and after 9/11 and measured radioactive hotspots afterwards.
    The cancer frequency among the rescue workers indicate levels like at the very least a 100 times above normal background and the actual cases of severe cancers were much more frequent in the early days.

    But Khalezov didnt mention the NNSA as I can recall. Other researchers have done that and illustrated it with photos of their personnel with covered ears and eyes.
    This constitutes aditional confirmation of Ks thesis about nuclear of some kind although not the 150kt H-bombs he had been informed about several years before.

    What DK did was to intelligently put together a credible combination of fragments which explains how the perps could make the authorities act in the belief that they were saving NY from detonating H-bombs.
    I think he was right about his separation of different levels of truth suitable for the masses ,the intermediate classes and the top level
    Only the top level would know the real truth.
    The intermediate level would be conditioned to shut up in the common interest so to speak.

    • Replies: @Iris
  405. @The Old Philosopher

    Despite your near proof from a standing start of inadequacy I was bothering to show the trivial irrelevance of your reply which showed nothing but a desperate reaching for something that you speculated might offset the powerful thrust of the article.

    You are one of those who hide behind ignorant generalities about the media so, tell me, what can you say of The New Yorker under tina Brown (Lady Evansl 1994-1998 and Louis Menand after that.

  406. Iris says:
    @Truth Vigilante

    Every skyscraper in the world in the last century or more is built with a ‘redundancy factor’, whereby the floors at any level have a load bearing capacity of AT LEAST FOUR TO FIVE TIMES the likely static load it will encounter.

    Exactly so. Major civil works, such as bridges for instance, are typically over-engineered to sustain up to 5 times the most likely static load, and up to 3 times the most likely dynamic load.

    In the case of older civil works, such as for the Twin Towers designed in the mid-60’s, engineers did not have as fine software design tools as available today, so they would tend to over-engineer even more and increase even further the safety margin above, to cater for any uncertainty in the calculations.

  407. Iris says:
    @Patrick McNally

    This has to be the most imbecilic comment I have ever read on this website, and God know there are a florilegium of those, especially under yours and the Wazzock of Zion’s posting accounts.

    Do you have yours eyes OPEN while typing? Do you realise the sheer enormity of what this guy Loizeaux had foolishly and accidentally let slip? He was a demolition expert, and neither before 9/11, nor after, did a sky-scarper ever collapse in the way that occurred to the Twin Towers.

    But this guy, with his GIANT CRYSTAL BALL, guessed minutes after a totally impossible event that this event, with odds of one in millions, was going to happen !! What a Talmudic miracle!! And how touching that you believe him, with your little fluffy Hasbara “candour” !!

    Meanwhile, in the real world: this guy Mark Loizeaux knew in advance that the Twin Towers were going to collapse because it was his company, Controlled Demolition Inc., who designed the WTC’s embedded nuclear demolition scheme in the 60’s.

    Old Philosopher rightly picked on this massive anomaly and massive evidence of foreknowledge, while you are pontificating about your stupid deflective semantics.

  408. Iris says:
    @PeterAG

    This constitutes aditional confirmation of Ks thesis about nuclear of some kind although not the 150kt H-bombs he had been informed about several years before.

    The scientific evidence that Khalezov was right was provided by a Physics academic, Pr Roby. He was intrigued by the thesis, and first tried to prove it wrong.

    He calculated a low estimate of the heat released by the WTC footprints in the months following the attack, using the open source infrared thermal images taken in the aftermath. He was astonished to find that this energy was in the order of the monthly production of a grid-connected 900 MVA nuclear reactor. This result rules out any possible explosive, except nuclear.

    https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-02004696v3/document

    The calculation returns an order of magnitude of approximately 100 kt TNT equivalent for each of the 3 nuclear charges. Historic information on the Twin Towers indicate they the explosion chambers were at minus 75 metres below bedrock level (or minus 96 meters below street level).

    What is amazing about Kh. is that he clearly is not trained in Physics, but nevertheless provided very scientifically-sound information with great confidence, that he could not even well explain. Liars don’t do that.

    • Replies: @PeterAG
  409. @Iris

    “neither before 9/11, nor after” … did anyone ever fly a jumbo-jet into a skyscraper with the aim of bringing it down. First-time incidents always lead to something unprecedented, sometimes the collapse of a building. In any case, my only reason for bringing up Loireaux’s comment was to emphasize that he did claim to have attempted to call it, since there was some confusion over whether or not he had done that.

    By the way, what do you think of the book written in 1988 by Vincent Dunn, Collapse of Burning Buildings? He seemed to be predicting long in advance that there some risk of something like this.

    As for the claim that the Towers were blown up with basement nukes, I have to refer again to the case of Ladder Company 6:

    http://www.911research.wtc7.net/cache/wtc/analysis/theories/acfd_miraclecompany_6.htm

    If there were any truth to the basement nuke thesis then these people would have been totally fried.

    • LOL: Iris
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  410. Al Liguori says: • Website
    @Fran Taubman

    Let’s put you and your creed in perspective, Fran. You are a Chabadnik. Chabad encourages deception (Be Chabad on the inside), proselytizes Jewish supremacism even to the point of genocide and global domination. (proofs here: http://judaism.is/chabad.html ) Further Chabad has the unmitigated gall to claim that Chabad’s Jewish supremacists are repairing God’s mistakes in the world, tikkun olam (Hebrew: תיקון עולם‎), but these are the same people who bind you with insane legalisms like checking your compass heading in the bathroom while the rabbis are peeping! https://www.judaism.is/potty-voyeurs.html Truly repellent people: deceivers, genocidal supremacists, and perverts.

    • Thanks: Iris
  411. @Fran Taubman

    You wrote:

    But Salon magazine did a detailed study of the claims made in the movie Loose Change.

    and ….

    according to the Washington Post, searchers discovered “about 1,500 mostly scorched samples of human tissue” around the crash crater.

    Salon Magazine is a tool of the establishment for disseminating propaganda and WaPo (alongside the New York Times), is the worst of all.

    If you’re relying on these two for your information, then you’ll continue on your clueless path.

    Can you comprehend Fran, that the publications, media outlets you rely on for your information are OWNED/CONTROLLED BY THE ENTITY BEHIND THE 9/11 FALSE FLAG.

    Until you grasp that fact, you haven’t even made the first step towards enlightenment.

    As for Rachel Maddow, I’m surprised by your comments.

    In the past, whenever I suggest Jewish complicity in some crime, you immediately launch into a frothing-at-the-mouth rabid defence of said Jewish brethren.
    You’ve never conceded an inch in the past.

    In your eyes, all Jews are innocent – only the Goyim commit crimes.
    All info sourced from Jews must be the gospel truth – only Goyim tell fibs.

    Hence my belief that you’d have an infatuation with Rachel Maddow.

    Yes, I’m aware she’s a left liberal and you’re a John McCain ‘Bomb, bomb Iran’ groupie, but as was drummed into your head at that Yeshiva where you were indoctrinated, Rule # 1 is:

    ‘Always side with your Jewish brethren over a Goyim, even if it means aligning yourself with someone diametrically opposed to you ideologically’.

    • Agree: Al Liguori
  412. Al Liguori says: • Website
    @Fran Taubman

    Fran enjoys the rabbis’ game of Cognitive Infiltration. She pretends that her very own misdirections are facts. Planted fake news stories are a key part of misdirections that led researchers into dead ends. Her misdirections exculpate nobody. Israel is responsible for 9/11. Apprehend, prosecute, and punish the perpetrators and accomplices, including “accomplices after the fact” who try to cover for the (((perps))). 9/11 is only one of many Jewish false flags against the USA: https://judaism.is/false-flags.html Jews are liars, killers, looters, slavers, and perverts. Look up “synecdoche.”

  413. @Patrick McNally

    It’s very hard on Ron, who is a clever man, and not barmy like so many truthers, that he has to set up so many discussions by offering theories he backs strongly with his private sense of what is unlikely, even incredible, coincidence and sense of when he has enough evidence to be aggressively positive about his theory – and then combat possibly telling evidentiary facts and suggestions that arise because the facts only emerged later or someone has only just seen an alternative explanation. Thus he remains silent on what might, on his record, have seemed quite a powerful consideration, namely, why the nefarious plotters, who knew they weren’t likely to be able to blame the Arabs forever once WTC7 had come down and (on the popular truther view) the Pentagon had been struck by a missile, didn’t just rig up the WTC buildings to have their lowest floors destroyed and the buildings to crash sideways with maximum damage (cf. the 18 demolitions in Kunming in the Chinese video I posted and which is easily found).

  414. @Patrick McNally

    So let’s indeed look at how and where in that article that issue comes up that is even more telling about it.

    Let’s then, as Warner Wolfe used to say, go to the viedo tape, but the complete video tape of where this appears in the article as follows:

    The following was the part of the article the wizzard posted which prompted my inquiry after first reading the following pagraph that appears next:

    Among the dozens of people I have spoken to recently who are experts in the construction of tall buildings (and many of whom witnessed the events of September 11th as they unfolded), only one said that he knew immediately, upon learning, from TV, of the planes’ hitting the buildings, that the towers were going to fall. This was Mark Loizeaux, the president of Controlled Demolition Incorporated, a Maryland-based family business that specializes in reducing tall buildings to manageable pieces of rubble. “Within a nanosecond,” he told me. “I said, ‘It’s coming down. And the second tower will fall first, because it was hit lower down.’ ”

    The following paragraph thenappears next:

    Before September 11th, the largest building ever to be imploded by accident or design was the J. L. Hudson department store, in Detroit, with 2.2 million square feet of floor space, which C.D.I. “dropped” on October 24, 1998. To do their work, Mark Loizeaux and his brother Doug need to understand the same forces and formulas that structural engineers study, but instead of using that knowledge to erect buildings they use it to take them down. They are structural undertakers, which may explain why Mark, whenconfronted with the spectacle of the crippled buildings, lacked the sentiment that builders feel for their creations—that innate sympathy which helped blind the engineers of the World Trade confronted with the spectacle of the crippled buildings, lacked the sentiment that builders feel for their creations—that innate sympathy which helped blind the engineers of the World Trade towers to the reality of what was about to occur.

    So what follows his breathless announcement that he knew within a nanosecond afterr the towers were hit they were coming down the author waxes nostalgic about how the engineers simply could not recognize the obvious about what was to befall their cherished structure on point to how the dmolition artist first brought down the JL HUdson store that I knew well. It was, of course, not one of these later steel framedd buildings but ond line construction being only about 8-10 stories high.

    Not interested in such irrelevant nonsense, I stopped reading.

    It was then after that paragraph that he tells what Mark did to warn the fire department. This logically and orgasnmizational was the paragraph that should have followed his breathless finding about how the twoers were coming down. Not only, however, is this paragraph out of logical order for presenting this information, but it makes no sense.

    “I thought, Somebody’s got to tell the Fire Department to get out of there,” Loizeaux told me. “I picked up the phonei dialled 411, got the number, and tried it—busy. So I called the Mayor’s Office of Emergency Management”—which was in 7 World Trade. “All circuits were busy. I couldn’t get through.”

    So here is an expert in demolittions presumably with contacts with the appropaite agencies that oversee such work who knows the building are failling down any second, who wants to waste no time contacting the NYFD, and what does he do? He dials 411. Now in what city is that the emergency number to call that is why he is frantically trying to reach the NYFD to warn them of impending disaster? How about calling 911? I know for a factm the 911 operastion the NYPD runs is pretty effective. Certainly the best way if you are a loss about who to contact to get the message out? But not Mark tha men ostensibly trying frantically to reach the NYFD.

    Ah, the 411 number was busy. So he next call the Moyor’s Office of Emergency Management? So if he had to call 411 to get the FDNY number, how then did he sufddenly get that number so he could call it. That remains a mystery.

    Except he purportedly gets it, but alas he can’t get through. “All circuits are busy.? Really. Does he mean he got a busy signal at whatever number he got? But that would only be one circuit. He instead claims all circuits were busy, that can only mean no calls in NYC were getting through to anybbody.

    I know for a certaity that is false because I had no trouble getting through to Trinity
    school that my daughter then attended and told the staff to inform her not to worry since I was okay even though my office was at 42 Broadway that was just a few block from the WTC.

    So his claim that all circuits were busy was plain old bull shit.

    But let’s consider for the moment what more he coiuld have done quicklly if he was conmvinced the Tpowers were about to collapse?

    Let me think a nansecond and it may come to me. Oh, the New York Buildings Department that oversees demolition projects. You’d think that someone in Mark’s position would have a directory of every key person to call in that Department. Did he cal anyone of them to get his warnings through.

    Nothing here to indicate he did. After all, all the circuits were busy, so what would have ben tthe use.

    What is clear, however, is that his failing to get through to warn anybody makes it a cetasinty he never in real time shared his knowledsge with anyone. So we have only his self-validating proclamation that any of what he claims aboutm what he knew about the towers would collapse is actually true.claims that

    Now let’s consider a possibility of how he could have been so sure the towers were coming down.

    What if he was aware the buildings were pre-wired from the beginning, and that the planes hitting the towers was a signal the operation to bring them down was in progress. With that knowledge, he damn well could be certain they would soon fall. He of course could not admit to that without at the same time desroying the official story.

    So he concots just another fable designed to back up the official story.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  415. @Iris

    It’s these facts and figures that are a real bitch.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  416. PeterAG says:
    @Iris

    He had the sort of rules of thumb knowledge from his training in nuclear security but he had previously obtained information from the exchange between the US and USSR in connection with the civilian nuclear bomb applications.
    And his account of what he experienced in Thailand shows that the perps wanted to remind him about that. Clearly the perps would want to mislead so what they reminded him about should be seen as deception.
    A nuclear bomb detonating as expected would show up in the seismic readings.

    DK knew that and suggested that the official data was false and that there really had been a 6 on the richter scale.
    But other experts dont agree.

    So both the reason that the perps wanted to push him in that direction and the absence of credible evidence supporting at 150kt ‘normally’ exploading H-bomb should make us look for some other variant of nuclear.

    Two different ideas about nuclear reactors have been suggested as well as the use of several partly expired smaller bombs.
    By expired I mean anything from just radiating a bit to exploading with a smaller magnitude than would a ‘fresh’ unit.
    The fact that even the elites outlet FP published evidence of missing mini-nukes and other even more outspoken whistleblowers who claim hundreds of such mininukes had gone missing gives a hint of what type of nukes may have been involved .

    Since they may not even have been paid for the use of nukes would be cheaper than to use conventional charges

    The reactor idea could account for the high total energy only spread out in time so the mechanical effect would be much less noticeable.

    Some researchers thought such a reactor in partial meltdown would radiate through some tanks causing a conversion to intense xrays which would weaken the steel sufficiently and pulverise the concrete through its absorption in the moisture,´

    I have no strong opinion of my own appart from thinking it must have been nuclear.
    And of course they could have used several conventional charges as well.

  417. @The Old Philosopher

    So he concocts a story

    Now that is rich coming from an Old Fool who has just been caught out and has to fantasise and concoct the story that the boastful demolition contractor devised “a fable to back up the official story”, an official story that didn’t exist to be backed up.

    If your attention span was up to it you might have thought it desirable to tackle the much weightier points that
    (a) none of all those engineers mentioned with an interest in averting blame for inadequate design saw what was so obvious to an armchair pundit like the Old Fool who knows a controlled demolition when he sees one
    (b) no one pointed with suspicion to Mark Loizeaux as having pointed the finger at himself. That took till 2021when an ageing genius put two and two together – except, didn’t you know, the FBI did a discreet but thorough check of all capable demolition contractors records and the whereabouts in previous months of principals like ML?

  418. The bunko wizzard babbles:

    If your attention span was up to it you might have thought it desirable to tackle the much weightier points that
    (a) none of all those engineers mentioned with an interest in averting blame for inadequate design saw what was so obvious to an armchair pundit like the Old Fool who knows a controlled demolition when he sees one

    Except of course thousand of engineers for 911 truth have detailed how the officiasl story of the collapse following the aircraft that crashed into the building is nonsense.

    Indeed, they have pointed out that not a single steel framed building before or after 911 has collapsed despite quite a number of them have burned some for days like a torch. Did Mark instantly predict they would all collapse after they were engulfed in flames.

    If what your ace demoliytation expert recognized within a nanosecond were within light years of the truth of the matter, what do you suppose all the architects and engineers would done in the mean time had the demolition exports conclusions been deemed even remotel correct?

    Now to be clear, that’s a rhetorical question because I know you have no clue what the answer is, to wit: they would within the last two decades have revised construction standards to ensure that future buildings would not similarly collapse when the building was consumed by fire (whether or not strruck by an aircraft}. And remember, the base of the official stopry is that it was the f
    fires that caused the collapse.

    Now wizzard, put you wizzardness to work and identify the preventative design standards those engineers have since implemented to to prevent a recurrence of the WTC collapses.

    BTW, did Mark also predict the collapse of WTC that was not hit by an aircraft but in which there were a few fires.

    Interestingly, fire fighters and other officials did indeed predcit in real time that the building would collapse despite only minro fires burning inside. In fact, a BBC reporter announced its collapse when it was visible over her should during the live broadcast.

    Any idea how they knew?

    (b) no one pointed with suspicion to Mark Loizeaux as having pointed the finger at himself. That took till 2021when an ageing genius put two and two together – except, didn’t you know, the FBI did a discreet but thorough check of all capable demolition contractors records and the whereabouts in previous months of principals like ML?

    And who says that it was only demolition contractors active in the US who were involved in 911? I guess that point whizzed past the wizzard in a flash.

    Mark of course didn’t imagine he was pointing the finger at himself by his huffing and puffing years after the event of how he was the only one who instantanenously knew the towers were bound to collapse after being struck by airplanes. Who was going to check the credibility of his claims when he made thewm years later in a promo piece for the official story?

    What gives away it’s real puffery or just a hoax on his part?

    Simple. The complete absence of confirmable details. He just threw in enough to make the claim credible, but not a single one that could be verified. But then he messed up, just like con artists and hoaxers are prone to do. He threw in an extra fact to make his claim seem completely credible. And what fact was that? He couldnt get through because “all the lines were tied up.” That was also obviously false. Moreover, he didn’t claim he ever tried calling the Buildings Dept.

    It’s how you identify and expose lies, deception, misrepresentation and fraud. And that’s my department.

    A key component of doing so was described by the actor who played Poirot when he described how he focused on to distinguish fact from fiction: “He listens to what people say, and hears what they mean.”

    Yup, I heard what Mark meant that came through clear as a bell from what he said.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  419. @The Old Philosopher

    It’s these facts and figures that are a real bitch.

    It is always your facts and figures that are a real bitch. When there is proof positive that facts counter to your arguments which destroy a truther narrative, are always viewed as Zio information manipulation and false and we get the the same stupid response. the Zio takeover. Even things like the announcement of flight 93 headed for Cleveland to land on TV by an APP report and then corrected as being false with a provable tape correcting the previous comment as being false. That flight 93 was not headed for Cleveland to land. Even that is never accepted as the truth. To the Loose Change crowd the plane(s) landed and people ended up in the Nasa building only to disappear. Well I am glad I am on the side of the sane are reasonable.

    Can you comprehend Fran, that the publications, media outlets you rely on for your information are OWNED/CONTROLLED BY THE ENTITY BEHIND THE 9/11 FALSE FLAG.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/reviews/the-weekend-s-tv-the-conspiracy-files-9-11-ndash-the-third-tower-sun-bbc2george-gently-sun-bbc2-861141.html

    Imagine an infection that actually feeds on the only antibiotic available to counter it and you have some measure of the problem in dealing with conspiracy theories. When conspiracists encounter solid evidence against their favoured scenario, they have only two options available to them. They can compromise their religious belief in the narrative they’ve constructed, or they can simply enlarge it, extending the conspiracy so that, amoeba-like, it absorbs this irritating foreign body and digests it whole. Almost invariably, they choose the latter, and The Conspiracy Files: 9/11 – the Third Tower, a film about the collapse of World Trade Centre Building 7, offered several choice examples of the process. What conspiracists believe about Building 7 is that it was deliberately destroyed, brought down by a pre-planned explosion so that the evidence proving government complicity in the events of 9/11 would be shredded. They base their conviction on footage of the collapse, in which it does indeed look as if the building has been brought down by controlled demolition. They then shore up this ill-informed impression with oddities picked from the rubble of that day – passing remarks, inaccuracies in the news coverage, fragments of debris – all of them carefully sifted and separated from their context so that their larger meaning is obscured. And woe betide you if you suggest that the resulting collage is implausible in any way.

    • Replies: @Al Liguori
  420. Al Liguori says: • Website
    @Fran Taubman

    Jews that live in glass houses… are capable of anything except good.

    You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he stood not in the truth; because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. John 8:44

    You, Fran, are a salient example.

  421. @The Old Philosopher

    I made up the bit you have bolded. I don’t know if it is true but, of course, you are too lazy and diverted by trivia even to think of following it up. A last bit of jelp for your attempts to think… The engineers interviewed for the New Yorker were in a completely different (and highly relevant) category from Richard Gage’a motley collection of alleged architects and engineers AND

    Mark of course didn’t imagine he was pointing the finger at himself by his huffing and puffing *years after the event*

    Have you already forgotten the date of the article?

    • Replies: @The Old Philosopher
  422. @Wizard of Oz

    No, I didn’t forget. I never noticed it, so thanks for pointing it out.

    Now the Nov 19, 2001 publication date puts his nanosecond conclusion about that the towers were going to collapse immediately after seeing it on television in an very different but even more revealing light.

    Now keep in mind that the publication date of an article appearing in a magazine is usually some days after the magazine in which it appears is actually printed. Then of course before it is printed, it has to be reviewed and edited, rewrites made, etc., the final copy is typeset and reviewed and given final edits and made ready for the printing press Then, of course, the author first has to write the article before it is submitted and can be edited. And then, of course, the author has to research the subject, conduct his interviews, write and edit the article before submitting it.

    Now my spouse has written major articles for national magazines so I know that just the editing process takes weeks if not months. But this author wrote a lengthy article that was according to its publication date out in print within two months of the event about which he is writing a lengthy, technical article with lots of background details about major figures in the story.

    Since the author could hardly have started the article before 911 actually happened (but then again, maybe not which would tell its own story about what this article was intened to accomplish), when at the latest must he have submitted a completed manuscipt to the magazine to start the editing process to get it into the magazine as of its November 19th 2001 date?

    Not less than a month before its publication date. That gave him barely a months to do the research, conduct interviews, write, edit and submit the piece.

    It could be done, but not without a lot of help and substatial resources.

    The new light that bringing its publicatioin date to my attention that I never before noticed sheds on the article is that Mark never had to be concerned about pointing the finger at himself by the conclusion he reached the towers were doomed to collapse nanoseconds after he saw the towers struck by the planes because his account actually laid the foundation for the conclusion FEMA and the 911 Commission eventually reached about what prompted the towers to collapse.

    So if a building demolition expert’s conclusion he reached within nanoseconds that the towers were doomed to collapse as soon as he saw them struck and this conclusion was disseminated to the public while it was still completely in the dark about what happened was the perfect way to sell this lemon to the public who would buy into it givem the exftensive research and technical information about building collapses he included in the article.

    Do you happen to know when the article was commissioned, and by whom? Only if you can tell, only if you can tell.

    Thus every bit of information you imagine to have unearthed that undermines the points I made just digs your hole deeper and deeper after I examine its real import.

    And just to make sure we get some things straight about your alleged knowledge and expertise in this area, I notice you kept very silent about my challenging you to address certain issues, such as the number of steel framed buildings that before or since 911 have collapsed as a result of massive fires or to identify how building and construction codes and standardds have been changed to prevent future collapses of steel framed buildings that Mark spotted as the flaw that would bring the towers down that he knew must happen nanoseconds after seeing them struck by aircraft?

    Now, if you were as brilliant and knowledgeable about these matters as you claim, all the information you needed to respond to my challenges should be at your fingertips in buckets.

    Unless, of course, there are none and you know you can’t just make it up out of whole cloth without completely discrediting yourself.

    So the wizzard is but a nitpicker of gnat shit.

  423. @Ron Unz

    If only I had known! You may well say “the more fool you” that I wasted any time replying to “The Old Philosopher[sic]” as I did, briefly but pointedly to his Comment #423.

    Now, when I return and find no reply I am advised, when I click on Reply

    Cannot Reply TO: The Old Philosopher

    Who is trying kindly to protect me from myself? And how?

  424. @Ron Unz

    Correction #423 should be #429 £, my last reply to you.

  425. Brutus says:

    I do not agree that you / we lost.
    I called BS BEFORE the first building started down.

    People who think do not believe the narrative now that they have had time to examine the evidence, both physical and procedural.

    youtube DOT com /watch?v=cQu18DHuutU

    One of the best videos out there and well worth your time.

    He hits the nail on the head at the end.

    Brutus

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  426. @Brutus

    I called BS BEFORE the first building started down.

    That’s very impressive on the face of it. Would you be so good as to explain your reasoning then and now and what you concluded the non BS understanding of what you saw was. As a demolition contractor at the time apparently made the very different observation that the Towers would collapse because of the weakening of steel by fire, would you please tell us the basis of your confident expertise.

    • Replies: @The Old Philosopher
  427. @Wizard of Oz

    Let’s see if I can help you out with some real facts for measuring the accuracy of Mark Loizeaux’s instantaneously reached conclusion that he knew for a certainty the towers would collapse within nanoseconds after seeing them struck by an aircraft.

    First, there is NIST that in 2005 stated “that the Twin Towers ‘have been investigated and found to be safe in an assumed collision with a large jet liner (Boeing 707-DC-8) traveling at 600 mph. Analysis indicates that such collision would result in only local damage which would not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building’” (cited in Ray McGinnis, Unanswered Questions: What the Septemher Eleventh Families Asked and the 9/11 Commission Ignored, p. 255, e.a.).

    So much for Mark’s certainy that he could conclude that towers were fated to collapse merely by seeing them struck by an airrcraft.

    Next is the absurd notion that the fires from the jet fuels did it that NIST even admittted in a 2005 report “that the few steel samples saved showed ‘only three columns had evidence that the steel reached temperatures above 250 C [482 F],’” McGinnis citing S. Shyman Sunder and Richard G. Gann, NCSTARI, “Final Report on the Collapse of the World TRade Center Towers,” NIST, 2005, p. 183.’”

    AS for Mark’s instantaneous conclusion that purportedly excluded controlled demolition, let’s note him telling the New Scientist that “he could make ‘doomed structures dance or walk’ as they began to topple. He explained that by ‘differently controlling the velocity of failure in different parts of the structure, you can make it walk, you can make it spin, you can make it dance. We’ve taken it and moved it, then dropped it or moved it, twisted it and moved it down further. . . ‘” (Liz Else, “Baltimore Blasters,” New Scientist, July 24, 2004, cited in McGinnis, p. 252). By his proclaimed expertise in demolishing buildings, Mark reveals that what he could really recognize in a nanosecond is that the towers were being brought down by exactly the kind explosive demolitions he was describing that his company routinely did. His claim that it was bound to collapse because it was struck by an aircraft was poppycock to substantiate the official story to the public as I made clear in my previous comments.

    But it is the the handle you have chosen that is a true measure of the the honesty, crediblity, truthfulness and reliability of your comments. For if I remember correctly the Wizzard of Oz was a humbug, charlatan, dissembler hiding behind a curtain to conceal his doings who was exposed by the dog Toto.

    Yes sir, wizzard, you are exposed again for what you really are.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  428. @The Old Philosopher

    It only took me two paragraphs to remind me that I should not waste time on your weird and trivial stuff. You cite Ray McGinnis (!!!!): for something you fail to quote directly and in contact from NIST which I believe to be as inaccurate as it is irrelevant because it makes no sense to be rabbiting on about the designed protection against aircraft impact when it was not the impact but the damage from impact plus fire that caused the collapse.

    I am simply not going to follow further on this tiny bypath that you took off on when you cited Mark L (inaccurately as another commenter pointed out) and tried to put him front and centre when I hadn’t originally even mentioned him!! Talk about missing the elephant in the room…. I see you now want to hitch yourself to some other blowhard’s chest puffing… Go and have a self congratulatory session with him.

  429. The wizzard humbug declares:

    You cite Ray McGinnis (!!!!): for something you fail to quote directly and in contact from NIST which I believe to be as inaccurate as it is irrelevant because it makes no sense to be rabbiting on about the designed protection against aircraft impact when it was not the impact but the damage from impact plus fire that caused the collapse.

    As usual, the humbug exposes himself to be what he is.

    First, he is not even coherent when he writes “. . .you fail to quote directly and in contact from NIST .” You’re right. I am not “in contact” with NIST. I simply quoted an author’s citation to NIST. Perhaps you meant “context.” Apparently, my comment agitated you so much that you couldn’t even think straight in your haste to fashion a reply. Moreover, I couldn’t care less what you “believe” about anything. If you allege the author I cited incorrectly quoted NIST in a way that would destroy the point he was making with it, the solution is to go to the original and show how it is incorrect. You didn’t do that, so I am assuming McGinnis accurately cited NIST. and the point he made with the citatioin is completely on target and demolishes your “belief” about it.

    Second, by alleging that it wasn’t the impact but the damage from the impact plus the fire that caused the collapse proves that you skipped over the paragraph in which I cited the finding that examination of the steel established the temeprature in none of the ones tested came anywhere within the range it had to reach to affect the structural integrity of the steel. So that’s proof that the “fire” theory portion of what caused the collapse was pure hokum, humbug, BS. In other words, the total fraud that is the official story that McGinnis exposes quite well.

    Third, you were incapable of substantantively rebutting or challenging a single point I made, and instead ignored them all. Good choice, because it’s a real bitch trying to challenge the truth with lies, deception, misrepresentations and fraud. In other words, humbug.

    I understand why your comment reflected that you detest McGinnis because he thorough exposes the humgug the wizzard propagates.

    Your conclusion not to respond any more to my comments is the only sane portion of what you wrote showing that you at least recognize that you have been exposed as was the humbug wizzard by Toto.

    • LOL: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @skrik
  430. skrik says:
    @The Old Philosopher

    G’day,

    there are none so blind, as those who will not see

    fits to your interlocuter, s/he/it operates under the delusion, that any filthy lie, if often enough asserted, will one day be magically accepted as truth. rgds

  431. Dan Hayes says:
    @Anon

    The DC capitol building would both be a higher profile and more easier attainable target!

  432. peggy445 says:

    “Only the small secrets need to be protected. The big ones are kept secret by public incredulity.”

    Marshall McLuhan

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