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  • Until the CDC releases details of its index case (‘Patient Zero’) there is no practical or scientific possibility of tracing Covid’s origin. Patient Zero, when he arrives, will introduce us to the animal vector that brung him. Question: Why does the US persistently refuse to release its Patient Zero data–despite being bound to do so by its WHO membership?
  • China has already undergone an independent investigation and the 149-member jury’s verdict was unanimous. The jury’s American foreman, Dr Bruce Aylward, head of the WHO International Mission said, “In the face of a previously unknown disease, China has taken one of the most ancient approaches for infectious disease control and rolled out probably the most ambitious, and I would say, agile and aggressive disease containment effort in history. China took old-fashioned measures, like the national approach to hand-washing, the mask-wearing, the social distancing, the universal temperature monitoring. But then very quickly, as it started to evolve, the response started to change . . . So they refined the strategy as they moved forward, and this is an important aspect as we look to how we might use this going forward. WHO has been here from the start of this crisis, an epidemic, working every single day with the government of China… WHO was here from the beginning and never left. What’s different about this mission is it’s complementing with a lot of other external experts.” Question: why is the US bullying the WHO?
  • A Cambridge University study suggests that Covid’s ancestry suggests a September start. Abstract: In a phylogenetic network analysis of 160 complete human severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-Cov-2) genomes, we find three central variants distinguished by amino acid changes, which we have named A, B, and C, with A being the ancestral type according to the bat outgroup coronavirus. The A and C types are found in significant proportions outside East Asia, that is, in Europeans and Americans. In contrast, the B type is the most common type in East Asia, and its ancestral genome appears not to have spread outside East Asia without first mutating into derived B types, pointing to founder effects or immunological or environmental resistance against this type outside Asia. Phylogenetic network analysis of SARS-CoV-2 genomes. Peter Forster, Lucy Forster, Colin Renfrew. PNAS. Phylogenetic network analysis of SARS-CoV-2 genomes.
  • The (American) Fat Lady hasn’t sung yet: Francis Collins, director of the US National Institutes of Health, said the virus might have been spreading quietly in humans for years, or even decades, without causing a detectable outbreak. On April 15, Collins, a physician-geneticist, is noted for his landmark discoveries of disease genes and his leadership of the international Human Genome Project. He served as director of the National Human Genome Research Institute at NIH from 1993-2008. Before coming to NIH, Dr. Collins was a Howard Hughes Medical Institute investigator at the University of Michigan. He is an elected member of the National Academy of Medicine and the National Academy of Sciences, was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom in November 2007, and received the National Medal of Science in 2009. Like its predecessors, Spanish Flu and H1N1, the virus probably originated in the USA. Every day it seems more doubtful that Covid-19 originated in China. Question: Is Dr. Collins signalling to scientific colleagues that he’s in on the scam?
  • CNN says Coronavirus probably spread in New York last October. CNN host Chris Cuomo said on April 17 he believes there will be revelations showing the novel coronavirus was spreading in the United States as early as October. “The kids now anecdotally, Cristina believes, that at least two of them have had it in the last few months. Why? We don’t know, but atypically long-duration sinus, fever, lethargy. I think we’re going to learn that coronavirus has been in this country since, like, October, that there have been cases,” Cuomo said. “And as you guys both know, and I hear all the time from all over the country, how many people do you hear saying, ‘I think I had it, I had this and this, I lost my sense of smell and this and that, but I never got tested’? Those cases are, like, abounding all over the country,” he added. Chris Cuomo predicts evidence will show coronavirus was spreading in the US since October.
  • French researchers found that the dominant types of the viral strains in the country did not come from China. April 24, 2020. French researchers carried out genetic analysis and found that the dominant types of the viral strains in the country did not come from China or Italy. The coronavirus outbreak in France was not caused by cases imported from China, but from a locally circulating strain of unknown origin, according to a new study by French scientists at the Institut Pasteur in Paris. Abstract: Following the emergence of coronavirus disease (COVID-19) in Wuhan, China in December 2019, specific COVID-19 surveillance was launched in France on January 10, 2020. Two weeks later, the first three imported cases of COVID-19 into Europe were diagnosed in France. We sequenced 97 severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) genomes from samples collected between January 24 and March 24, 2020 from infected patients in France. Phylogenetic analysis identified several early independent SARS-CoV-2 introductions without local transmission, highlighting the efficacy of the measures taken to prevent virus spread from symptomatic cases. In parallel, our genomic data reveals the later predominant circulation of a major clade in many French regions, and implies local circulation of the virus in undocumented infections prior to the wave of COVID-19 cases. This study emphasizes the importance of continuous and geographically broad genomic sequencing and calls for further efforts with inclusion of asymptomatic cases. Introductions and early spread of SARS-CoV-2 in France
  • Italy suspects it had Covid-19 November, 2019. One of Italy’s leading doctors, Giuseppe Remuzzi, director of the Mario Negri Institute for Pharmacological Research in Milan, said March 23 that there were already few cases in Italy of this unknown virus that has been severe for older people in Nov. up to Dec. Remuzzi said that there might be chances that the virus already circulated the world even before China declared an outbreak with the viral disease. “They [general practitioners] remember having seen very strange pneumonia, very severe, particularly in old people in December and even November,” said him. “This means that the virus was circulating, at least in [the northern region of] Lombardy and before we were aware of this outbreak occurring in China.” The doctor explained that only these past few weeks, wherein he discovered that there were cases similar to Coronavirus were being treated in the country by various Italian doctors. Italy Discovered ‘Strange Pneumonia’ Case in November 2019.
  • Canada’s early COVID-19 cases came from the US, not China, provincial data shows. The National Post asked for data on the origins of travel-related cases in Ontario, Quebec, British Columbia and Alberta, which have seen the majority of Canada’s COVID-19 cases. The global COVID-19 pandemic began in Wuhan, China, but data from Canada’s largest provinces show it was American travellers, not Chinese, who brought the deadly virus to our shores.Despite this evidence, the federal government brought in travel restrictions on China first and American border restrictions were the last to be put in place. Canada’s early COVID-19 cases came from the U.S. not China, provincial data shows. April 30.
  • French medical authorities find a Coronavirus case from December, 2019. French authorities announced May 4 that the first coronavirus case in France could have occurred a month earlier than official figures suggest, according to a professor from Avicenne Hospital, following the retesting of 24 patient blood samples. Professor Yves Cohen from the Avicenne Hospital in Bobigny said in an interview with local media that it appears that Covid-19 was already in France at the end of 2019 – rather than in January-February 2020 – as had previously been thought. A decision was made to retest 24 samples of blood from patients who were admitted in December with respiratory infections but had tested negative for the flu. Out of the 24 samples retested, one male patient came back positive for Covid-19. “We’ve reanalyzed all negative tests on people who were diagnosed with pneumonia. Of the 24 patients, we found one who resulted positive to Covid-19 on December 27 when he was taken to our Avicenne Hospital,” said Cohen. He confirmed that the patient in question has fully recovered and “is well.”First Covid-19 case in France could have been as early as December, new evidence suggests. https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/canadas-early-covid-19-cases-came-from-the-u-s-not-china-provincial-data-shows?video_autoplay=true
  • Why would a medically competent country be investigated by a medically incompetent one? Especially since we know America’s independent investigation SOP: “Current and former staff members of the OPCW have denounced the organization’s IIT report alleging Syrian government sarin use at Ltamenah, criticizing its reliance on rumor, hearsay, “scientifically flawed” claims and the influence of unqualified, secret “experts” aligned with the Western-backed opposition. If we go by demonstrated competence in this field, shouldn’t it be the other way round?”

Godfree Roberts publishes Here Comes China! a weekly newsletter of–you guessed it–good news from China.

 
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  1. Perspicacious and informative as always, keep on shining Mr. Roberts.

  2. Chris Cuomo? Sure, but what does Billie Eilish have to say about it?

    Anyway, get me the PRC national anthem sheet music, because I want to sing it right now.

    • Replies: @foolisholdman
  3. Znzn says:

    The Chinese destroyed their economy and the prospects of the healthy over a bad flu, just to save the old, the sick, the smokers, and the asthmatics, all of whom would have been dead in a few years anyway?

    • Replies: @sally
    , @padre
    , @Rev. Spooner
  4. d dan says:

    For an investigation to be “independent”, US and all western countries would need to allow investigators’ access to hundreds of bio labs throughout the world, including many of the US labs ran by Pentagon locating in Asia and Africa. Many of these labs are in poor and corrupted countries with minimal or no civilian/government oversight.

    Pentagon would never agree to that. Hence the investigation would be meaningless.

  5. Derer says:

    Do not blame China. Which country would send their young unemployed boys die in an other country on a despicable lie – even using UN stage for the lie. Well, it was sinister Washington players. This pandemic badly backfired for the perpetrators – they are not that smart.

    • Replies: @Druid
  6. A Cambridge University study suggests that Covid’s ancestry suggests a September start.

    I could find no reference to a September start in that study; in fact I couldn’t find the word ‘September’ anywhere on the paper. Could you explain how you educed a ‘September start’ from that paper?

  7. Realist says:

    It is interesting that Tucker Carlson started his program, last night, by railing against news media that does not investigate issues, especially pertaining to Covid-19…he then launched into a hypocritical tirade against China using unnamed government sources and unseen government documents, as the source of Covid-19 malfeasance in reporting the disease, on China’s part. Carlson did this without one media investigation of the veracity of the US government reports.
    Carlson has turned into a hypocritical asshole.

  8. They should call in Miss Marple. She can tell us who the guilty are.

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
    , @derer
  9. @Realist

    He is doing what he was paid to do. Like all paid for “newsman”.

    It is always funny to me since I read stuff like “CNN is so shitty, but here is what foxnews said”.

    • Replies: @Realist
  10. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Realist

    The ubiquity and intensity of the Chinadiditry has been revealing, hasn’t it?

    It already looks like a major issue in the next Most Important Election Ever will be who can scapegoat and saber rattle the loudest. The apparently urgent need to divert attention from Uncle Sam by focusing solely on China is making strange bedfellows among commenters, too. We know what to expect from the likes of “A123,” “Lot,” “Wally,” and their ilk, but one of their most droll and trollish foils, “Corvinus,” also seems genuinely upset with Ron Unz and others who dare question the narrative. Even the smooth smoke of “Wizard of Oz” has been replaced with fiery, how-dare-you denunciations in defending Mr. Derbyshire’s over-the-top China bashing published May 1.

    I don’t profess to know the provenance of the virus(es), yet there seem to be all kinds of people upset with those of us willing to say even that. Let’s hope they don’t feel desperate enough to start another war.

    We’re living in Exceptional! times.

  11. @Brás Cubas

    Apologies. I rushed that sentence. It referred to Dr. Forster’s subsequent interview, now on Youtube (but broken into three parts so I don’t know which part this quote comes from:

    But I can tell, you know, it it could be older than it’s assumed. And let me go into a little more detail on that. The [00:12:00] first sample which was sequenced and put on the index international database was collected from a patient in Treuhand on Christmas Eve, 2019 on the 24th of December. And we have looked at the mutation rate, as I’ve explained, and we find that if we take a linear regression. So if we extrapolate backwards in time with this mutation rate, we find the first infection must have happened at some point between [00:12:30] the 13th of September 2019 and the 7th of December 2019. And that’s a wide range, but that’s the 95 percent confidence interval. And that means hello, cat. That means that that. When the first sample was sampled from a patient on the 24th of December and who had the disease was already about two or three weeks. In existence [00:13:00] and we are fit, and you can imagine that it takes some time before doctors realize this is something that needs to be analyzed. And most of the samples in December are from the end of December. So really three weeks have passed before we have the first sequence and possibly months of fast because potentially it went back as far back as September.

    • Thanks: Brás Cubas
  12. Realist says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Yes, they are all full of shit.

  13. @Brás Cubas

    It’s reasonably straightforward, although it’s not stated explicitly in the paper.

     • the ‘Lucy’ SARS-nCoV-2 has a genome (the ‘BAT’ node on Figure 1 in the paper).
     • the three primary (mostly-yellow) nodes have genomes that differ from ‘Lucy’ by a common ‘core’ set of changes (they also differ from each other by a smaller amount);
     • the earliest-extracted Wuhan genome (BetaCov/Wuhan/IPBCAMS-WH-01/2019 – 24 December) is in the node marked ‘B’.

    Each ‘notch’ on the links between nodes, represents a nucleotide mutation. So there are 17 nucleotide mutations between ‘BAT’ and the unlabelled yellow node connected to the ‘BAT’ node.

    Now… the node marked ‘B’ differs from the node marked ‘A’ by 3 nucleotide mutations, and ‘A’ differs from the unlabelled yellow node by another 2.

    Thus the unlabelled yellow node must predate ‘B’ by sufficient time for those 5 nucleotide mutations to have occurred.

    These mutations happen (quasi-)randomly.

    To get some estimate of how long it takes for the identified 5 nucleotide mutations to happen, you identify genetic distances between other linked pairs, and get an estimate of the elapsed time between the pairs. The dates of collection for the samples that generated each node, are in the Excel sheet in the Supplementary materials, and can be checked against the log dates in the GISIAD database.

    So the ‘September’ outcome is what you get if you calculate the average time taken to generate a nucleotide mutation, and apply it to the 5 mutations between ‘B’ and the unmarked yellow node.

    I would have liked them to make this much clearer in the writeup… in the best of all possible worlds they could have modelled the sensitivity of the ‘birthday’ of the unmarked yellow node. They didn’t do that, but they’ve given enough data in the Supplementary materials for people to be able to do that themselves.

    I suspect that they were encouraged not to do a sensitivity analysis: it would have given a wider range of dates, including much earlier dates than September.

    Other than that, this paper is a really beautiful bit of work.

  14. @anonymous

    [snip]“Corvinus,” also seems genuinely upset with Ron Unz and others who dare question the narrative.

    In his defence, though, the world is being absolutely inundated with professionally-crafted narratives designed to infect anyone who drops their guard.

    The latest is the attempt to make people believe there is some – any – deleterious covid19 effects on kids. (Almost nobody under 15 has died, anywhere in the world: if you “believe the children are the future” like the song says, well… the future’s unharmed).

    It’s very hard to keep stupid housewives in a state of frisson as it becomes increasingly clear that covid19 is not going to kill their precious kiddies. And Karens will now be sick to the eye teeth of having their idiot offspring underfoot 24/7…

    Not saying that Corvinus is a stupid housewife or a Karen, but it ought to be unsurprising that a commonality among the keenest ‘fluBro‘ set[1] on Unz seems to be technical competence (a good proxy for numeracy). Maybe Corvinus is Karen-fluid (or Becky-curious).

    .

    [1] The clique I have in mind are not outright ‘fluBro’ as such, but certainly anti-Doomer at a minimum and consistently vocal about it.

    That would be Achmed E Neuman, Audacious Epigone, Hail, me and a few others whose ‘handles’ escape me at the moment (I also wanna say PhysicistDave, so that fluBros can be one degree of Kevin Bacon from Feynman – but he hasn’t really nailed his colours to the mast as a ‘keen’ fluBro).

    Ron Unz’ Doomer-adjacency is a bit mysterious given his keen observation of the likely (longer) timeline for CoronaChan and his demonstrated technical competence. He has supped from the poisoned Doomer chalice (as has iSteve), but if he delved as deeply into the mountains of data available he would change his mind.

    • Agree: acementhead
  15. @Kratoklastes

    A friend just sent me this:

    May 1, 2020. Belleville, NJ, Mayor Michael Melham said he has tested positive for coronavirus antibodies, adding that he believes he was sick with the virus in November — more than a month before doctors in China first reported cases of the new disease.

    Melham said he was sick toward the end of November and suffered from chills, hallucinations and a “skyrocketing temperature” after he left the League of Municipalities Conference in Atlantic City.

    “It felt as if I was an addict going through withdrawal,” Melham said in a press release. “I didn’t know what was happening to me. I never felt that I could be so sick.”

    The first known case of the coronavirus in the United States was in January and involved a West Coast man who had been in China’s Wuhan Province. Health experts now say the coronavirus may have been quietly circulating in the United States in January and February, when testing was rare. None have pushed the timeline back as far as November, however.

    In a text message to NorthJersey.com and the USA TODAY NETWORK New Jersey, Melham said it was the sickest he had ever been in his adult life.

    The doctor told Melham he had the flu and that he would get better after rest and fluids, the release said. He did not take a flu test and said he did not travel overseas.

    Melham said he later suspected he had contracted the coronavirus in November but dismissed the notion because the earliest cases in the United States weren’t reported until January. His November illness is what prompted Melham to ask his doctor for the blood test. He got the results Wednesday.

    The mayor said it is entirely possible he was exposed to the coronavirus later and was asymptomatic, but felt it was “highly, highly unlikely.”

    “The antibody in my blood is older as opposed to the more recent one showing you just finished fighting it off,” Melham said.

    Melham believes he could potentially be an early, undetected case of the coronavirus.
    https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/essex/belleville/2020/04/30/belleville-nj-mayor-tests-positive-coronavirus-antibodies/3057925001/

    • Thanks: Saggy
    • Replies: @Nils
    , @Olivier1973
    , @Anon
  16. @Kratoklastes

    Thank you. I don’t like giving a wrong impression about my knowledge, so let me be clear that I don’t have the necessary background to understand all the details of your explanation. But I get the picture. And Mr. Roberts added a transcription which helped too. My main purpose was to check whether there was an error here, and I am glad that there wasn’t.

  17. @anonymous

    Keke. Derbyshire is dead intellectually. Old fart can’t even hate coherently. I stopped reading a long time ago, you should too.

    • Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy
  18. A Seattle lab uncovered Washington’s coronavirus outbreak only after defying federal regulators. The Week. March 11, 2020.

    A lack of test kits for the new COVID-19 coronavirus is still obscuring the extent of the outbreak in the U.S., but for a critical period in February, there were no functional federal tests and “local officials across the country were left to work blindly as the crisis grew undetected and exponentially,” The New York Times reports. The coronavirus has now infected more than 1,000 people in 36 states and Washington, D.C., according to Johns Hopkins University’s count.

    The first U.S. outbreak was in Washington state, where authorities confirmed the first patient — suffering from respiratory problems after visiting Wuhan, China — only after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention made an exception to strict testing criteria. In Seattle, Dr. Helen Chu, an infectious disease expert who was part of an ongoing flu-monitoring effort, the Seattle Flu Study, asked permission to test their trove of collected flu swabs for coronavirus.

    State health officials joined Chu in asking the CDC and Food and Drug Administration to waive privacy rules and allow clinical tests in a research lab, citing the threat of significant loss of life. The CDC and FDA said no. “We felt like we were sitting, waiting for the pandemic to emerge,” Chu told the Times. “We could help. We couldn’t do anything.”

    They held off for a couple of weeks, but on Feb. 25, Chu and her colleagues “began performing coronavirus tests, without government approval,” the Times reports. They found a positive case pretty quickly, and after discussing the ethics, they told state health officials, who confirmed the next day that a teenager who hadn’t traveled abroad had COVID-19 — and the virus had likely been spreading undetected throughout the Seattle area for weeks. Later that day, the CDC and FDA told Chu and her colleagues to stop testing, then partially relented, and the lab found several more cases. On Monday night, they were ordered to stop testing again.

    “In the days since the teenager’s test, the Seattle region has spun into crisis, with dozens of people testing positive and at least 22 dying,” the Times notes. “The scientists said they believe that they will find evidence that the virus was infecting people even earlier, and that they could have alerted authorities sooner if they had been allowed to test.

    https://theweek.com/speedreads/901405/seattle-lab-uncovered-washingtons-coronavirus-outbreak-only-after-defying-federal-regulators

    • Replies: @PandaAtWar
  19. gay troll says:

    When a virus is taken out of storage at a BSL facility, it is passed through an animal host for several generations to re optimize its fitness. SARS Cov 2 appears to have leaked out of Fort Detrick early last summer. Something breached USAMRIID’s new steam decontamination system, and though the identity of the leaked agent is classified, Fort Detrick did not fully reopen for 9 months.

    Maybe September was the month they isolated multiple strains from their host population and selected one(s) to deploy against China and Iran. It was also the month the unaccountable epidemic of “EVALI” pneumonia peaked and began to disappear, the month the Fed started offering Repo cash to banks, the month the CDC discontinued epidemiologist Linda Quick’s job in China, and the month House Democrats launched a ludicrous impeachment scenario against the President.

  20. Iris says:
    @Brás Cubas

    The time window for the beginning of the epidemic is found by calculating a linear regression trend of the virus’ rate of mutation.

    You can find the detailed calculation in the Fluxus software webpage used by Dr Forster, the geneticist author of the study, and specifically on the “Asians” worksheet:

    https://www.fluxus-technology.com/cov2020.htm

    The linear regression computes an East Asian mutation rate of 0.0403 (SD 0.00871) muts/d, so 1.2 (SD 0.26) muts/month/30kb genome.

    The X intercept is 102 to 17 days before 24 Dec. So the first infection and spread of the virus occurred at some point between 2019 Sep 13 and Dec 7 (95%)

    • Thanks: Brás Cubas
    • Replies: @utu
  21. Ron Unz says:

    A commenter on a different thread noted this piece from The Onion, which does an excellent job of explaining America’s justifiable anger at China:

    WASHINGTON—Lambasting the rival superpower for what he called “reckless” and “irresponsible” behavior, President Donald Trump publicly blamed China Monday for acting too late in coordinating the U.S. Covid-19 response. “China knew our nation was facing a deadly threat as early as January, and yet they did nothing to develop a plan we could use to slow the spread of the virus,” said Trump, noting thousands of American lives could have been saved if Chinese president Xi Jinping had only taken the threat seriously from the start and implemented a strategy to reduce the negative impact on the U.S. economy. “The Chinese government just kept waiting and waiting, sitting on their hands as the outbreak spread through the U.S. rather than leading our nation in the way it so desperately needed. States shouldn’t be left out to dry, putting together piecemeal pandemic responses. What else is a strong Communist Party for? And now they’re trying to cover it up, claiming the U.S. isn’t their responsibility.” At press time, Trump added the administration had obtained new intelligence suggesting the Chinese government had engineered coronavirus in a lab in Washington.

    https://www.theonion.com/trump-blames-china-for-acting-too-late-in-coordinating-1843243502

  22. Biff says:

    Why would a medically competent country be investigated by a medically incompetent one?

    Take out “medically” and fill in the blank:

    Democratic
    Judiciary
    Sensible
    etc…

  23. Well all of this pre Wuhan virus around the world would really dent a story the MIC is pushing.. They will probably change it to ‘the virus was discovered by the Chinese, and upgraded in Wuhan, before being released at the best time to hurt the Chinese people.. By Chinese people’.

    Makes ya giggle, at least at the projection of it all. Western leaders would happily cannibalise their own for a few silver coins. The Chinese are on a path to prosperity and are oh so close to getting there – why would they mess it up now?

  24. @gay troll

    Thanks for focusing on that month. I hadn’t noticed its importance.

    Can you deepen your investigation and dig up links that you think would help anchor it?

    • Replies: @Usura
  25. utu says:

    Godfree Roberts is trying to insinuate a theory that the virus was spreading in the US population in November or even much earlier is not very credible. It would require a highly improbable scenario to happen that the epidemic would linger on a borderline sub stable level with very few infected barely supporting R0=1 so it would neither die out nor transform into an outbreak. From what we know now the covid-19 virus is very infectious so it propagates very fast. In the early phase of the epidemic in NYC the doubling rate of daily deaths was three days. Is it possible that Covid-19 was lingering at R0=1 for several months before turning into an outbreak with R0>1? Yes, but it is so improbable that practically impossible. The anecdotal cases of early infections in the US must be literally anecdotal.

    Pushing the theory that the disease appeared first in the US preys on the ignorance of not understanding the dynamics of how the disease spreads, meaning that pushing this theory can’t be done in good faith. Does anybody expect to find good faith in a propagandist?

  26. sally says:
    @Znzn

    You refer to a nation state object with name space China but

    The Communist Party of China mans and staffs the nation state.
    In the USA, wall street is similar to the CCP.. it mans and staffs the USA..
    the two enemies are the CCP vs WS but neither the Chinese people nor the America people
    care about that.. they are just people and want to get along in the world.
    Life would be a lot easier if there were no state secrets allowed..
    and if the people of each member nation of the nation state system could vote for whom ever they wished.

    the first act of the people would be to eliminate the MSM..

    The CPP placed human rights overs economic prospects.. did I hear you say?
    while Wall Street forced open America just in time for round two of the SARS CoV-2 virus?

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  27. Jaylonw says:
    @Realist

    This is because Tucker has always been a Sinophobe instead of a Russophobe.

    • Replies: @Realist
  28. Nils says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Sorry to inform you but George Webb has already pieced this disparate puzzle together.

    Everyone’s culpable- from Dr Fauci, to Bush-era hold overs at NIH and CDC and Fort Dietrick and, I’m sure, CIA opportunists upon discovering the virus had escaped, either locally or in China – to also the Chinese complicity in accepting banned zoonotic and gain of function research from Fauci and friends via Government research grants, built on work carried out at North Carolina Chapel Hill, with the final end result being these bat viruses literally carrying an HIV insertion to boost pathogenesis. Maybe the first evidence of CRISPR used as a bioweapons to boot.

    Always curious once an admitted ex-CIA agent takes up the role of counter narrative. I guess my intuition just immediately puts me on defensive. What could his intentions be?

    All that is missing, really, is the first 5 seconds of the Big Bang, so to speak. When initial, fundamental interactions dominate the flow of future events.

    Was it accidentally released and the random occurrence turned into a geopolitical false flag, or was it done intentionally?

    Those are the parts that need scrutiny and so far has yet to be answered definitely. Why was Iran selectively hit like Italy, but not say Greece or India? Africa has business ties to China like Milan and Lombardy but escaped relatively unharmed. Why?

    What I do think is clear is the role, at some major level, of unexpected effects. No actor seems to have managed this well, Definitely not China nor the US. It could end up being a repeat of the structure of 9/11: personal self attack followed by aggressive ideological polarizing dialectic like freedom vs terrorism.

  29. That graph certainly makes the Sweden critics look like the idiots they have always been.

  30. Nils says:
    @Nils

    I should add that the evidence, at least coincidentally and in the value of opportunity, is very strong that the US used the event as a stealth bail-out of some industries.

    We should not mistake the following recent history:

    1: Late last year Fed began pumping a lot of liquidity into its overnight lending desk for various anonymous banks. Some talk of coming crisis

    2: around the same time, China-US trade war erupts and then ends somewhat quietly

    3: us assassinates Soleimani (maybe to hide the collapse with war?)

    4: virus outbreak in Wuhan near the time of Chinese New Year

    5: massive bailout of industries not affected directly by the shut down – finance capital and such – and passing attention paid to real working class

    6: US sues China for complicity in the virus release

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    , @Tor597
  31. Anon[407] • Disclaimer says:

    China pours more concrete every two years, than the US did during the entire 20th century.

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/feb/28/the-grey-wall-of-china-inside-the-worlds-concrete-superpower

    China has bullet trains , the US has 3800+ areas with water at least twice as bad as Flint.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-lead-map-idUSKBN1DE1H2

    6 total people died over the melamine toothbaste scandal, and China hung people and sent people to jail.
    The US probably had 500,000 die because of vioxx and it was basically crickets.

    If current trends continue by 2032 , in the US half of all children and 80% of a boys will be autistic( per Dr Stephanie seneff at MIT)

    The US almost certainly created Lyme disease as a bioweapon and it either escaped or was released , and affects 2-300,000 Americans every year per the CDC.

    https://www.amazon.com/Lab-257-Disturbing-
    Governments-Laboratory/dp/0060011416

    The US could have been curing basically all cancer by 1950 but has chosen not to by selective ignorance.

    Does China have a draconian/ orwellian idea of internet freedom? I would say yes.
    Some people though would probably find that preferable to what the US has where the internet is so overrun with child pornography and the the FBI is very understaffed at least in the department that concerns itself with child porn. Effectively the FBI has to prioritize and in actuality any victims that appear over 5 years of age are ignored to concentrate resources on kids 5 or younger. Per the new York times.

    https://archive.fo/sJflL

    We always have money ( can print money ) to bomb countries , and to bail out oligarchs to the tune of trillions, but we just don’t have the money to fix the water in 3900+ communities or to adequately protect children from predators. ( Everyone has to have their priorities , I guess).

    China has the belt road iniative and what does the US have? Vastly worsening relationships with Europe? A puppet government in the Ukraine?

    Both Japan( almost entirely dependant on the US for national defense) and Taiwan ( one 267th the size of China, and the only thing standing in the way of China reannexing is the US)have vastly closer relations with the United States than with china.

    Despite these facts, both have come out and said coronavirus originated in the US per their own research. ( What do the Japanese know about science? Just because they have more engineers per capita than anyone else doesn’t prove anything, I mean how many lesbian dance theory majors do they have?)

    In summation.
    People who live in dilapidated houses, completely controlled by oligarchs, who’s best days are way behind them and are living in some clownworld where Bruce Springsteen’s Glory days literally repeats ad nauseum over the loudspeakers,and continually brag about their gargantuan penis size, despite being so obese that they can’t even exactly say for certain , that they still even have one, and that can print money out of thin air, yet still let infrastructure and water delivery systems languish , and leave their children at the mercy of internet predators, to prioritize fighting wars for Israel and giving billions to defense contractors to make mediocre weapon systems that barely work, are vastly out of date compared to Russia and are predominantly for wars that they don’t fight anymore., yet still love to blather on about being the worlds greatest country in the world despite all the evidence to the contrary, like being the worlds greatest debtor nation, the world’s most saber rattling State, the world’s most obese nation, with higher levels of inequality than any other place in history, and a superbly uneducated populace that is borderline incapable of critical thought and has a fourth estate almost completely captured by the mega corporations it has birthed, should probably refrain from throwing stones, if only because the rest of the world will bear witness to them ” throwing like a girl”( world’s greatest run on sentence acheived)

    It takes an incredible amount of cognitive dissonance to pretend The US is ” better ” than China. ( I admit they are far from perfect and orwellian but guess what ? Our media and Congress have approximately 15% approval ratings, and we are largely run by attorneys ” Jew Fu” , where as china is for the most part run by engineers, is that really Sophie’s choice? )

    To see so much cognitive dissonance and outright shilling for the United States by the readers of unz.com , who probably know the warts and crimes of the US empire, like few other demographics do , is surprising but not amazing and to not just shill but so bemoan people being contrarian and playing devil’s advocate is extremely disheartening.

    Man is a rationalizing animal, not a rational one.

  32. @Brás Cubas

    Look for all pneumonia in the US with an unexplained cause.

    Like this one from… August. September is alread late.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/31/health/vaping-marijuana-ecigarettes-sickness.html

    • Replies: @450.org
  33. @Ron Unz

    rather than leading our nation in the way it so desperately needed.

    Excellent! All powers to China. Xi for president!

  34. padre says:
    @Znzn

    Can you imagine “international” outcry, if they didn’t?

  35. @Godfree Roberts

    I never felt that I could be so sick.

    That is the experience of many people who went through it: they never experienced such a bad disease, worst than everything before.

  36. skrik says:
    @Kratoklastes

    I suspect that they were encouraged not to do a sensitivity analysis

    Or somehow ‘leaned upon.’ I refer you to my earlier comment here [where I too counted 17 little ‘nicks’] and concluded with:

    Q2: Do we wonder why there is no update?

    Well, now there’s this:

    UPDATED on Thursday April 30th 2020 with the following statement from Dr Peter Forster: “Our analysis published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS) looked at the early spread of the virus in humans. Our analysis was not designed to investigate rumours suggesting the virus itself came from outside China. It is a misinterpretation of our research to suggest that the novel coronavirus originated outside China.”

    But he pointed out that the A version was found in a Canadian, an Aussie and the 1st known infection of a Belgian who claims not to know how he got it but lived 50km SE of Wuhan before jetting back to BE [probably asymptomatic up to and including the flight]. See this video, possibly the one referred to at/by 11.Godfree Roberts above [thnx].

    Other than that, this paper is a really beautiful bit of work.

    Yes, and here is a ‘live’ model [from across the pond]. One may choose a country in the ‘Collection Site’ box to see what strains have infected where, say.

    I previously mentioned HIV inclusions in the spike, including an asserted debunk here. Now here’s an update on the spike:

    Power spikes
    SARS-CoV-2 is uniquely equipped for forcing entry into cells. Both SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV-2 bind with ACE2, but the receptor-binding domain of SARS-CoV-2 is a particularly snug fit. It is 10–20 times more likely to bind ACE2 than is SARS-CoV9. Wendtner says that SARS-CoV-2 is so good at infecting the upper respiratory tract that there might even be a second receptor that the virus could use to launch its attack.
    Even more troubling is the fact that SARS-COV-2 seems to make use of the enzyme furin from the host to cleave the viral spike protein. This is worrying, researchers say, because furin is abundant in the respiratory tract and found throughout the body. It is used by other formidable viruses, including HIV, influenza, dengue and Ebola to enter cells. By contrast, the cleavage molecules used by SARS-CoV are much less common and not as effective

    I do not think that Covid-19 is ‘just a flu’ and I think that the panic in Wuhan started in the next microsecond after they had decoded the [warlike!] spike. rgds

    • Agree: Huskynut
  37. @gay troll

    Fort Detrick did not fully reopen for 9 months.

    Ah, Fort Detrick home of The Camel Club, Dr Zack, and Ames, friend of the Anthrax Mailer(according to the FBI, so probably not).

    If something as large as Dr Zack could breach Ft Detrick’s security, and he did(recorded on security camera) then something as small as a virus should have no trouble.

    Please count me as a proud ItFBer and disciple of Feynman(and Pauling and Assimov and Pinker(blimey I think I see a Something here)).

  38. utu says:
    @Iris

    “The linear regression computes…2019 Sep 13 and Dec 7 (95%)” – I am unable to find what you have cited anywhere in the Foster et al. paper.

    • Replies: @skrik
    , @Iris
  39. Realist says:
    @Jaylonw

    This is because Tucker has always been a Sinophobe instead of a Russophobe.

    Be that as it may, he is a hypocrite. Carlson pisses and moans about what lying, corrupt bastards the intelligence agencies are when they attack the Trump administration, Roger Stone, Gen. Flynn…yet is ready to believe anything those same intelligence agencies say that is derogatory toward China…even though there is no evidence provided.

    • Replies: @450.org
  40. Fred777 says:

    Roberts thinks Bruce Aylward is an American? The WHO has a credibility issue these days that even has the Washington neocons laughing at them.

    One country which has handled the Wuhan Flu quite well is Taiwan, WHO should get their input.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  41. @Nils

    No actor seems to have managed this well, Definitely not China?

    What did China not handle well, specifically?

    • Replies: @Erebus
  42. @utu

    It would require a highly improbable scenario to happen that the epidemic would linger on a borderline sub stable level with very few infected barely supporting R0=1 so it would neither die out nor transform into an outbreak. Elsewhere I and others have presented abundant evidence that it was circulating in September. https://www.unz.com/article/coronavirus-the-dark-side/
    https://www.unz.com/article/coronavirus-the-plot-thickens/
    https://www.unz.com/article/last-man-standing/
    https://www.unz.com/article/the-hunt-for-patient-zero

    From what we know now the covid-19 virus is very infectious so it propagates very fast. In the early phase of the epidemic in NYC the doubling rate of daily deaths was three days. Is it possible that Covid-19 was lingering at R0=1 for several months before turning into an outbreak with R0>1? . We know that the one strain is 279x more lethal than the most benign strain. That’s enough to suspend disbelief, at least until we hear more about which one was circulating in the US.

    The anecdotal cases of early infections in the US must be literally anecdotal. That, certainly, is the intention of the CDC:

    State health officials joined Chu in asking the CDC and Food and Drug Administration to waive privacy rules and allow clinical tests in a research lab, citing the threat of significant loss of life. The CDC and FDA said no. “We felt like we were sitting, waiting for the pandemic to emerge,” Chu told the Times. “We could help. We couldn’t do anything.”

    They held off for a couple of weeks, but on Feb. 25, Chu and her colleagues “began performing coronavirus tests, without government approval,” the Times reports. They found a positive case pretty quickly, and after discussing the ethics, they told state health officials, who confirmed the next day that a teenager who hadn’t traveled abroad had COVID-19 — and the virus had likely been spreading undetected throughout the Seattle area for weeks. Later that day, the CDC and FDA told Chu and her colleagues to stop testing, then partially relented, and the lab found several more cases. On Monday night, they were ordered to stop testing again.

    “In the days since the teenager’s test, the Seattle region has spun into crisis, with dozens of people testing positive and at least 22 dying,” the Times notes. “The scientists said they believe that they will find evidence that the virus was infecting people even earlier, and that they could have alerted authorities sooner if they had been allowed to test.”

    China discovered the outbreak because it was the only country testing for it.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Wizard of Oz
  43. skrik says:
    @utu

    I am unable to find …

    It’s in the video cited by Godfree Roberts above and linked to by me above, or you could try this. Note in there: “further south.”

    Also note that AFAIK we are desperately missing some/any sequences from Iran. rgds

    • Replies: @utu
  44. Hibernian says:
    @Nils

    massive bailout of industries not affected directly by the shut down – finance capital and such – and passing attention paid to real working class

    I’m not a fan of bailouts; however, to be indirectly affected is still to be affected. Banks whose debtors cannot repay their loans will fail, which will result in real working class people not being able to access their savings until the FDIC has gone through a long process.

    • Replies: @Anon
  45. Hibernian says:
    @Anon

    The US could have been curing basically all cancer by 1950 but has chosen not to by selective ignorance.

    You might be overstating your case.

    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
  46. @utu

    The way I see it for his theory to be possible is for different virulence levels for the different strains. Mainly strain A being less infectious or deadly compare to strain B.

    That is that only way for his theory to be true.

    Waiting on the scientists.

    • Agree: Oscar Peterson
  47. @sally

    MSM needs to be taken back, not eliminated.

    Use it to spread true and honest news would be the start of getting this country back to greatness again.

  48. Andrew “preachy” Cuomo maybe right about New York origin of the virus given the city is overcrowded with a million illegal Chinese … It’s the home of the new yellow fever!

    • Replies: @mr meener
  49. @Anon

    Please make a handle. Your comments are worth reading. Would make it easier for me to follow.

    • Replies: @Anon
  50. utu says:
    @skrik

    Stephen Chen of South China Morning Post again. Thank you but no thank you. I saw the job he did on the French paper several days ago.

    Video cited by Godfree Roberts ? Are you serious? There is nothing in the Foster et al. paper that could warrant any extrapolations to September.

    • Replies: @skrik
    , @foolisholdman
  51. Anon[417] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hibernian

    That is angument for bailing out just ” the payment system/ real economy and per mark Blyth or John Kay( other people’s money book) is like approximately 5% of the economy ,the test is just incredible leverage and fool Hardy financialization.

    Watch one of John Kay’s talks on YouTube or mark Blyth talk about 2008.

    Glass- steagall was not the sole cause of 2008, but it does need to be reinstated. Also when the banks were recapitalized on the backs of savers, by cutting interest rates , to almost nothing, the rational response was to take your money out, they make loans of ten dollars on deposits of one dollar and barely even pay you for the privilege.

    A jubilee is needed , during certain reigns in Egypt and china , Jubilee’s / debt forgiveness would happen as frequently as every 18 months.

    Kings basically used to make the agreement , I’ll give you a monopoly on banking but in exchange don’t think if the world’s goes to hell , don’t think you are getting 100 cents on the dollar. Not running my kingdom for you to be made whole. It’s worse nowadays because they print the money put of thin air and expect to be repaid in full, austerity is a vicious cycle, every dollar that goes to debt is one less to spend on consumption , so demand has to go down, and it creates a vicious cycle.
    Another thing china gets right is they owe money to themselves, not oligarchs like us, if they want to they just agree not to pay themselves back.

    Michael Hudson’s book killing the host is also great.

    https://newworldeconomics.com/category/how-banks-work/

  52. Anonymous[130] • Disclaimer says:

    Godfree Roberts would have more credibility if he wasn’t such a cheerleader for China. He thinks China can do no wrong. Or at least presents himself this way for the sake of stirring up readership.

    Covid-19 originated in China. You cannot dispute this fact. You can try saying as others have that this disease may have been in the West for some time laying dormant or whatever. It’s simply not the case.

    The Chinese have some explaining to do.

    • Replies: @acementhead
  53. utu says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    “We know that the one strain is 279x more lethal than the most benign strain.” – Godfree Roberts

    “Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity.” – William of Ockham

    Introducing new entities to salvage your theory indeed is an urgent necessity for you. Next you will have to stipulate that the benign strain does not protect from being infected by the more lethal strain otherwise New York and New Jersey would not be going through the lethal epidemic. Once you make this stipulation then the whole point of the US being infected first is moot if the strain that US was supposed to be infected in September (1) was benign, (2) did not offer any protection from the more lethal strain and (3) is not being detectable by the serum test developed for the more lethal strain that first appeared in China and which came later to the US to ravage NY and NJ. (1)+(2)+(3) implies that the entity you invented does not exit.

    • Agree: SteveK9
  54. skrik says:
    @utu

    Did you bother to watch the video? Any credibility you may ever have claimed to have has gone to [absolute] *ZERO!* The video is of Dr Forster outlining some extra facts – Dr Forster, talking directly to a camera, for the world to see and appreciate. rgds

    • Replies: @utu
  55. Anon[417] • Disclaimer says:

    That is an argument for bailing out just ” the payment system/ real economy and per mark Blyth or John Kay( other people’s money book) that is like approximately 5% of the economy ,the rest is just incredible leverage and fool hardy financialization. America has ones and zeros , and china has gold reserves , a better nuclear arsenal, competent leadership, more human capital, infrastructure, means of production, antibiotics, rare Earth’s, is the greatest creditor nation I believe as opposed to the greatest debtor nation and approximately 82% of American weapon systems require at least one input from China.( Please don’t argue America has competent leadership , because competent leadership would have never allowed it to get 10% this bad, the main argument against tariffs, is that they kick off a retaliatory cycle, except the U.S. didn’t retaliate until extremely recently.

    Those factories were built initially by Rockefellers , Sam Walton, Kissinger and other American oligarchs to get away from American labor, you reap what you sow, but globalists could care less.

    You don’t have to like China but please realize the extra Herculean task of trying to lift 1.4 billion people out of poverty, and realize it will necessitate some tough decisions, unlike America where the bottom 90-95% haven’t gotten raises adjusted for inflation since 1983( the great decoupling)
    And Americans love to cry about the Chinese not having political freedom, well when most dissent is disingenious like tienneman square which was the CIA ( google tienneman myth, the journalists admit it) and Hong Kong was the CIA and Soros ( you really think those people organically waved American flags, stupid?)
    who is a front man for the CIA if you didn’t know, the uyghurs are Muslims that the US has been cultivating since the 80s under Reagan and the national endowment for democracy( per William engdahl) who have been knighted to sabotage one belt one road because the US is mad at it’s Navy getting end run arounded similar to how the British got mad at the Germans pre world war 1 for building a railroad to Baghdad, so they could get oil without dealing with the British Navy ( guess mackinder and Brzezinski aren’t as smart as they think)
    On top of that political freedom is somewhat of a dead weight loss, look at the division it’s caused in the US, I’d rather have clean water.( 3800+ US areas have water at least 2x worse than Flint/ Google it)
    We build more prisons, china just kills all the prisoners and people who love the killing of unborn children bemoan the killing of actual child molestors.

    Also please be aware the one child policy was imposed on china by the Rockefellers just like they sterilized a third of Puerto Rican women by 1965 , by tying their tubes without consent and telling them it was reversible.

    How many people even know how Britain got Hong kong,? They fought two wars over the right of court Jews( Sassoon) in Britain to flood china with opium, and when China lost not only did they have to give up Hong Kong, they had to allow opium to flood their country and had to pay for every dollar spent by both sides.( I’m pretty sure if I was Chinese, k would hate the west on that fact alone)

    Watch one of John Kay’s talks on YouTube or mark Blyth talk about 2008.

    Glass- steagall was not the sole cause of 2008, but it does need to be reinstated. Also when the banks were recapitalized on the backs of savers, by cutting interest rates , to almost nothing, the rational response was to take your money out, but they make loans of ten dollars on deposits of one dollar and barely even pay you for the privilege.

    A jubilee is needed , during certain reigns in Egypt and china , Jubilee’s / debt forgiveness would happen as frequently as every 18 months on average.

    Kings basically used to make the agreement , I’ll give you a monopoly on banking but in exchange don’t think if the world’s goes to hell , don’t think you are getting 100 cents on the dollar. Not ruining my kingdom for you to be made whole. It’s worse nowadays because they print the money put of thin air and expect to be repaid in full, austerity is a vicious cycle, every dollar that goes to debt is one less to spend on consumption , so demand has to go down, and it creates a vicious cycle.
    Another thing china gets right is they owe money to themselves, not oligarchs like us, if they want to they just agree not to pay themselves back.

    Michael Hudson’s book killing the host is also great.

    https://newworldeconomics.com/category/how-banks-work/

    • Thanks: Saggy
    • Replies: @Ann Nonny Mouse
  56. In France, a team of researchers has found the disease was already spreading there in late December, one month before the first official cases were confirmed. The revelation followed a study of 14 stored respiratory samples of patients who were admitted to intensive care units with influenza-like symptoms in December and January.

    The researchers identified a 42-year-old patient, whose last overseas trip had been to Algeria in August, who developed symptoms after one of his children had a flu-like illness. The patient, who had pre-existing asthma and Type 2 diabetes, was admitted to the ICU for antibiotic therapy and discharged after two days.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3083081/britains-coronavirus-cases-came-mainly-europe-not-china

    Wuhan detected it in late December, too. But was that the earliest French case, or will further testing–perhaps some postmortems–reveal earlier cases?

  57. mcohen says:
    @Anon

    Yes anon

    I know China is wonderful.so much concrete.what an insane analogy……poured more concrete.

    Poured more concrete.

    POURED MORE CONCRETE

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/feb/25/concrete-the-most-destructive-material-on-earth

    https://amp.scmp.com/yp/discover/news/environment/article/3061057/why-concrete-worse-plastic

    really anon you are in the wrong section of the internet.

  58. bigduke6 says:
    @Anon

    Holy ricecel seethe

    • Replies: @Anon
  59. GMC says:

    Real good article Mr. Godfree – thanks. I personally don’t need to be an expert to understand who would do this, why they would do it, when they would need to do it but this looks like a version of the Samson Option to me. If I drive for 3 days, I can reach probably a dozen US/Nato/big Pharma Bio weapons labs, in Ukraine and of course the Lugar BS lab in Tbilisi, Georgia. Russian Intel says there are 45 labs in the old satellites – I believe them. The Owners know that Nukes are an option that destroys the world for decades , along with mankind – these super bioWeapons is an option that only destroys most of mankind , but keeps the Owners , still in control – Maybe.

  60. Commies on full parade today. I bet most can’t wait until the CCP style social credit system is rolled out here.
    Lets not forget how our dear Soviet brothers are treated when they stray from the “Party Line”
    Three doctors “have mysteriously fallen out of hospital windows in Russia over the past two weeks,” CNN reports, and only one is still alive. The physicians are Alexander Shulepov, an ambulance doctor in Voronezh and the only one to survive the fall; Elena Nepomnyashchaya, acting head doctor of a hospital in Krasnoyarsk, Siberia; and Natalya Lebedeva, head of the emergency medical service at Star City, which CNN notes is “the main training base for Russia’s cosmonauts.”

    Dr. Shulepov tested positive for the coronavirus and said in a now-retracted video that he was being forced to continue working anyway.
    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/3-russian-doctors-one-with-virus-fall-out-of-hospital-windows-in-2-weeks-live-corona-updates?utm_source=LifeSiteNews.com&utm_campaign=a184a4edb9-Daily%2520Headlines%2520-%2520U.S._COPY_753&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_12387f0e3e-a184a4edb9-400674377
    Oh, and by the way, the whole Covid-1984 thing is a scam..
    “People need to understand that the
    fear virus is much more destructive
    and deadly than the corona virus!”
    — Intelligence Analyst and Former U.S. Army Officer

    http://stateofthenation.co/?p=12850#more-12850

    • Replies: @skrik
    , @onebornfree
    , @Alfred
  61. Jake says:

    Nothing would surprise me about the origins of Covid-19. Because I know how dirty, how evil, British secret service has been since at least the Tudors, and I know that the Yank WASP Elites ape the Brit WASP Elites in everything, I know that it is entirely possible that American Deep State types had it manufactured and released knowing it would kill many Americans and Europeans.

    I also know that the Chinese Communist Party is totally amoral and therefore willing to do anything to achieve its goals, no matter how many deaths it takes, its own people and other peoples. I also know that Chinese eating and meat preparation are filthy and guaranteed to produce some type of deadly infection once per decade or so.

    I also know that the WHO is increasingly in bed with the Chinese Communist party.

    I also know that Bill Gates and his ilk love WHO and are more than willing to make deals with the Chinese Communist Party, and Gates requires WHO to kick start his mandatory vaccinations program.

    There is a ton of evil – No! there are many tons of evil – in this Covid-19 mess.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Alden
    , @SteveK9
  62. Arise! We who refuse to be slaves..

  63. utu says:
    @skrik

    “Did you bother to watch the video?” – I looked for it and finally I found it. Thanks for no help. Indeed Forster gives the estimate of the first infection within the interval [13 Sept – 7 Dec]. Obviously he knows what he is doing and follows established methodologies in the field, however, I am pretty sure you can find critics of what he is doing. Any extrapolation always require lots of assumptions. His estimated confidence level is based on data statistics only and does not ascertain whether the necessary assumptions for the methodology to be valid are fulfilled. One is that the time vector is not determined by individual samples unless you know they have a valid timestamps. A genetic lab may easily find that (A,B) is a father-son pair but may have difficulty determining who is the father and who is the son in the pair.

    • Replies: @skrik
  64. Erebus says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    What did China not handle well, specifically?

    The month of December.

    • Troll: Harold Smith
    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  65. 450.org says:

    Things That Make You Say Hmmmm

    https://news.yahoo.com/researcher-verge-making-very-significant-030320409.html

    Maybe it’s just a coincidence but there are so many coincidences, collectively when combined, it leads one to believe it’s more than just coincidence.

    Sometimes a cigar is not a cigar and instead COVFEFE-19.

  66. 450.org says:

    I had an argument with my 17-year-old son, he makes straight A’s in science, about how this virus originated. He’s convinced it jumped from bats in China to humans. I informed him this is conjecture and not proven. He claims it’s a scientific consensus. So, I researched it. NPR is one of the culprits disseminating false information and propaganda about this virus by claiming it’s a scientific consensus that SARS COVID 2.0 jumped from bats to humans in Wuhan. It’s conjecture. Yes, corona viruses for sure have their origins in bats and for years researchers have been expecting something like SARS COVID 2.0 to manifest, but expectations are just that, expectations. They have concluded, this consensus of scientists, without conducting a proper investigation, that it’s a matter of fact that SARS COVID 2.0 confirms their expectations therefore it is fact this viral pandemic jumped from bats to humans in Wuhan and from there to the world. This is not science. It’s balderdash. It’s religion. It’s politics. It’s propaganda. But it is most certainly not science.

  67. 450.org says:
    @Realist

    I agree. Why do people put so much stock in entertainers masquerading as investigative reporters regardless of their feigned ideology? Carlson is a turd blossom like all the other shill pundits. America doesn’t have “news.” It has punditry. Carlson reminds me of Matthias.

    View post on imgur.com

    • Agree: Realist
  68. @Astuteobservor II

    The thing about Derb is that he has always been anti-China. That may sound counterintuitive since he’s married to a Chinese lady, but not really. If anything, it’s an effective smokescreen, or plausible deniability if you will. He’s just one of those white guys who was able to punch above his own weight with an Asian gal, because he wasn’t able to with White gals. But make no mistake, he’s anti-Chinese. He probably gets smug satisfaction that he “stole” one of their women, in his view.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  69. Anders Tegnell, right, Sweden’s chief epidemiologist, said coronavirus may have been circulating in the country since November

    © Jessica Gow/TT News Agency/Reuters. https://www.ft.com/content/aba67162-9129-41b9-b82b-d61a890e6589

    • Replies: @Johnny Walker Read
    , @anon
  70. Anyone who has not figured out that there is something seriously wrong with Covid19 stats of China has his head stuck in the sand.

    If the virus is as virulent or deadly as they say it is, there is absolutely no way China got off scot-free in all major population centers outside of Wuhan. Beijing and Shanghai should have been devastated, according to their logic. No amount of social distancing or shut-down measures should have worked so effectively as it has. Too many people from Wuhan moved during and before the lunar new year break to make any sense out of it.

    The logical conclusion from Chinese stats is that either (a) the virus is totally fake, as David Icke has concluded or (b) the virus is real but substantially less communicable and deadly than feared. Independent investigators and researchers would be remiss not to look into BOTH of these claims.

    • Troll: thetruth
  71. @Erebus

    Um, given that Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s chief epidemiologist, said coronavirus may have been circulating in the country since November, could you explain concretely what China did not handle well in December?

    Or are you trolling?

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Erebus
  72. @utu

    Coronavirus’s ability to mutate has been vastly underestimated, and mutations affect deadliness of strains, Chinese study finds. The most aggressive strains of Sars-CoV-2 could generate 270 times as much viral load as the least potent type. New York may have a deadlier strain imported from Europe, compared to less deadly viruses elsewhere in the United States

    A new study by one of China’s top scientists has found the ability of the new coronavirus to mutate has been vastly underestimated and different strains may account for different impacts of the disease in various parts of the world.
    Professor Li Lanjuan and her colleagues from Zhejiang University found within a small pool of patients many mutations not previously reported. These mutations included changes so rare that scientists had never considered they might occur.
    They also confirmed for the first time with laboratory evidence that certain mutations could create strains deadlier than others.
    “Sars-CoV-2 has acquired mutations capable of substantially changing its pathogenicity,” Li and her collaborators wrote in a non-peer reviewed paper released on preprint service medRxiv.org on Sunday.

    Li’s study provided the first hard evidence that mutation could affect how severely the virus caused disease or damage in its host.

    Li took an unusual approach to investigate the virus mutation. She analysed the viral strains isolated from 11 randomly chosen Covid-19 patients from Hangzhou in the eastern province of Zhejiang, and then tested how efficiently they could infect and kill cells.

    The deadliest mutations in the Zhejiang patients had also been found in most patients across Europe, while the milder strains were the predominant varieties found in parts of the United States, such as Washington state, according to their paper.

    A separate study had found that New York strains had been imported from Europe. The death rate in New York was similar to that in many European countries, if not worse.
    But the weaker mutation did not mean a lower risk for everybody, according to Li’s study. In Zhejiang, two patients in their 30s and 50s who contracted the weaker strain became severely ill. Although both survived in the end, the elder patient needed treatment in an intensive care unit.

    This finding could shed light on differences in regional mortality. The pandemic’s infection and death rates vary from one country to another, and many explanations have been proposed.
    Genetic scientists had noticed that the dominant strains in different geographic regions were inherently different. Some researchers suspected the varying mortality rates could, in part, be caused by mutations but they had no direct proof.
    The issue was further complicated because survival rates depended on many factors, such as age, underlying health conditions or even blood type.
    In hospitals, Covid-19 has been treated as one disease and patients have received the same treatment regardless of the strain they have. Li and her colleagues suggested that defining mutations in a region might determine actions to fight the virus.
    “Drug and vaccine development, while urgent, need to take the impact of these accumulating mutations … into account to avoid potential pitfalls,” they said.

    Li was the first scientist to propose the Wuhan lockdown, according to state media reports. The government followed her advice and in late January, the city of more than 11 million residents was shut down overnight.
    The sample size in this most recent study was remarkably small. Other studies tracking the virus mutation usually involved hundreds, or even thousands, of strains.
    Li’s team detected more than 30 mutations. Among them 19 mutations – or about 60 per cent – were new.
    They found some of these mutations could lead to functional changes in the virus’ spike protein, a unique structure over the viral envelope enabling the coronavirus to bind with human cells. Computer simulation predicted that these mutations would increase its infectivity.
    To verify the theory, Li and colleagues infected cells with strains carrying different mutations. The most aggressive strains could generate 270 times as much viral load as the weakest type. These strains also killed the cells the fastest.
    It was an unexpected result from fewer than a dozen patients, “indicating that the true diversity of the viral strains is still largely underappreciated,” Li wrote in the paper.
    Professor Li Lanjuan is a leading Chinese epidemiologist. Photo: Xinhua
    Professor Li Lanjuan is a leading Chinese epidemiologist. Photo: Xinhua
    The mutations were genes different from the earliest strain isolated in Wuhan, where the virus was first detected in late December last year.
    The coronavirus changes at an average speed of about one mutation per month. By Monday, more than 10,000 strains had been sequenced by scientists around the globe, containing more than 4,300 mutations, according to the China National Centre for Bioinformation.
    Most of these samples, though, were sequenced by a standard approach that could generate a result quickly. The genes were read just once, for instance, and there was room for mistakes.
    Li’s team used a more sophisticated method known as ultra-deep sequencing. Each building block of the virus genome was read more than 100 times, allowing the researchers to see changes that could have been overlooked by the conventional approach.

    The researchers also found three consecutive changes – known as tri-nucleotide mutations – in a 60-year-old patient, which was a rare event. Usually the genes mutated at one site at a time. This patient spent more than 50 days in hospital, much longer than other Covid-19 patients, and even his faeces were infectious with living viral strains.
    “Investigating the functional impact of this tri-nucleotide mutation would be highly interesting,” Li and colleagues said in the paper.
    Professor Zhang Xuegong, head of the bioinformatics division at the National Laboratory for Information Science and Technology at Tsinghua University, said ultra-deep sequencing could be an effective strategy to track the virus’ mutation.
    “It can produce some useful information,” he said.
    But this approach could be much more time consuming and costly. It was unlikely to be applied to all samples.
    “Our understanding of the virus remains quite shallow,” Zhang said. Questions such as where the virus came from, why it could kill some healthy young people while generating no detectable symptoms in many others still left scientists scratching their heads.
    “If there is a discovery that overturns the prevailing perception, don’t be surprised.”

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3080771/coronavirus-mutations-affect-deadliness-strains-chinese-study

  73. @Hapalong Cassidy

    Anti anything is fine. As long as one does so logically.

    When derb resorted to shit stains, he became a shit stain.

    The best argument I have read from the anti China camp has been that if China succeeds, US dollar will be kaput, living standard in the USA will tanked to shit levels compare to right now. Yet, all the vocal brain farts like derb never bring this up. They never talk about the real issues.

    That is the problem with the alt right. It is all led and hijacked by brain dead farts like derb.

    • Replies: @Realist
  74. skrik says:
    @utu

    I looked for it and finally I found it. Thanks for no help

    But I *posted the link* above, not to the one you ‘found,’ but a sequel. The SARS-CoV-2 lineage [A, B, C etc.] is *abso-bloody-lutely* clear; it’s not a matter of anyone’s opinion, one cannot critique *facts*. Tip: When in an hole, stop digging. Whoever concocted SARS-CoV-2 then released it [intended target China, achieving most of the world] did so with total malice aforethought. That drastically narrows the suspect-field; lemma: At any crime-scene, one must consider means, motive and opportunity, but a more complete list includes premeditation, presence, any modus operandi and cui bono? As a sample of modus operandi, try the post-9/11 anthrax attack *on some of their own people*, say. rgds

  75. Saggy says: • Website
    @utu

    Does anybody expect to find good faith in a propagandist?

    No one should take anything they read on the internet as Gospel, but, whether or not CV was present in the US in 1919 can be definitively answered with minimal investigation using the antibody test. Thus far we haven’t seen the results of such an investigation, but we do have this data point ….

    May 1, 2020. Belleville, NJ, Mayor Michael Melham said he has tested positive for coronavirus antibodies, adding that he believes he was sick with the virus in November — more than a month before doctors in China first reported cases of the new disease.

    • Replies: @Realist
  76. mr meener says:
    @Really No Shit

    it was the filthy stinking orthodox jews that spread it. new rochelle ny mainly hassids ground zero for COVERT-19 virus

  77. Z-man says:

    Godfree? Is that the Jooish spelling of the name.
    In any event you’re Bat Shit Crazy as Chinadidit!

    • Troll: Godfree Roberts
  78. denk says:

    Hmmm,
    FUKUSAustralia gunning for a sojourn in the Wuhan ‘crime scene’. ?
    Where’d you find The beneficiary of a murder case in charge of its investigation , where else but in rule based western democrazy ?
    What could go wrong ?

    Where did I hear that one before ?

    Bali bombing, 2002

    No group stepped forward to take public responsibility. Immediately after the bombing, the FBI, the Australian Secret Service and British secret police swooped in to the bomb site and took charge of the investigation,. The Indonesian authorities and the Balinese police were indignant but powerless to intervene. The first people on the scene almost immediately were the FBI, despite it being a 17-hour journey from the USA. Australian police arrived within 24 hours.

    https://terroronthetube.co.uk/related-articles/london-and-bali-bombs-a-comparison/

    https://crazzfiles.com/bali-was-nuked/

  79. Delta G says:

    Why are you carrying water for Francis Collins? The comment you ascribe to him was plagiarized from comments made by the Australian scientists in their manuscript published in Nature Medicine a week earlier, whom you give no credit to whatsoever.

    Francis Collins is not vastly different from Anthony Fauci. He is no pioneer of science and helped to destroy the NIH. He is not clever or innovative. The Human Genome Project could have been done by trained Chimpanzees and in fact was. Monkey see Monkey do. The cost of and effort of the project gained little in any useful knowledge.

    Instead of focused research programs the Human Genome Project took vast amounts of resources from true Biomedical Science and used it “To Blindly Go Where No Man Has Gone Before!”

    Little brains cannot do Big Science.

    Francis Collins is an unmitigated disaster for US Science. Unfortunately, in the wide spread ruins he largely go unnoticed.

    • Replies: @glib
  80. @Godfree Roberts

    It was circulating in September and yet you repeatedly accuse the CDC of refusing to identify Patient Zero – without referring to a source of such information – and treat that as wrong and sinister. To me it means you are demonstrating that no one knows who Patient Zero is and that wisely the CDC is not conjuring up a phony answer.

    • Replies: @skrik
    , @Godfree Roberts
  81. 450.org says:
    @Olivier1973

    My mother passed away this past November from a SARS-like disease they did not diagnose and didn’t care to diagnose. A few days before being transported to the hospital from the nursing home, she was fine or as fine as fine can be considering she was 91 and in a nursing home. A few days later, I get a text from my brother indicating she had to be rushed to the hospital because she couldn’t breath. Five days later she was dead. She had no appetite and couldn’t and wouldn’t eat. She refused to drink. The hospital docs said there was nothing they could do for her. She was placed in a hospice and we waited by her bedside for her to pass as she was sedated. She remained in a sedated state for three days suffocating slowly as fluid piled up in her lungs and she struggled to breath like she was running a marathon or worse, like someone had a pillow over her face. It was horrific to see her go this way. And then she was gone. Just like that. In the span of a week. Next please.

    Was it this virus or a version thereof? Who knows. Maybe not. Probably not, but then again, maybe so.

  82. Tor597 says:
    @Nils

    Also, there was a huge amount of CEOs who quit just in time to avoid the pandemic.

  83. Don Bacon says:

    CDC has never reported COVID-19 deaths, only ILI deaths (influenza-like illness) which includes pneumonia, influenza and the new virus. . . .from the latest report: “Based on death certificate data, the percentage of deaths attributed to pneumonia, influenza or COVID-19 (PIC) decreased from 23.6% during week 16 to 14.6% during week 17 but remained significantly above baseline.” …here

    • Thanks: Agent76
    • Replies: @Agent76
  84. Anon[382] • Disclaimer says:

    Why was my comment marked as spam? It was in response to Hibernian comment number 47 , saying that I was overstating my case, when I said ” we could have been curing basically all cancer by 1950.
    I was just backing up with what I said with evidence, and while it is off topic, it was related to backing up the truthfulness of a post that was on topic.
    I generally really enjoy your articles, if even only for the devil’s advocate, steel manning nature of them ,but I have to admit , the taking down of a comment that I worked at least 20 minutes on , will make me much less likely to comment in the future.

  85. Adrian E. says:

    I just think that people should take seriously the possibility that the Military World Games that took place in Wuhan from October 18–27, 2019 played a significant role in the spread of the virus.

    According to Wikipedia, nearly 10,000 athletes (and probably many people who helped organizing the event) took part in this event. That is just this kind of superspreading mass event that can play a significant role in spreading this virus, which is why events of this kind have now been stopped almost everywhere.

    The Military World Games have been mentioned above in connection with the French people who think they had been infected there, but I think people do not take this serious enough, yet.

    On one hand, of course, nothing is proven. But on the other hand, if there is such an outbreak of a disease and then a short time before, there had been such an event with many participants from all over the world, it it clear that it should be investigated whether these two things have something to do with each other.

    Of course, it could be that the virus had already been in Wuhan before the Military World Games and then some people (e.g. these French people) were infected from local people. But it can be assumed that participants of the Military World Games had a lot of contact with other participants, and therefore, another plausible possibility would be that a delegation from another country brought the virus to the Military World Games in Wuhan and also infected some local people.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Erebus
  86. Agent76 says:

    May 1, 2020 Big-Pharma Put in Charge of COVID-19 “Vaccine”

    Big-Pharma is being given billions to develop a Covid-19 “vaccine.” Would you trust your health to these profit driven criminals?

    https://journal-neo.org/2020/04/30/criminal-big-pharma-put-in-charge-of-covid-19-vaccine/

    May 4, 2020 Dr. Fauci Reveals How EVIL He Really Is While Discussing The Future of Sports

    Dr. Anthony Fauci has already destroyed over 30 million US jobs in six weeks!

  87. Agent76 says:
    @Don Bacon

    This blows up all of the global propaganda.

    April 19, 2020 Stanford Study Proves Covid-19 Was Overhyped. “Death Rate Is Likely Under 0.2%”

    Stanford study proves many more people are infected – between 50-85 times more – than reported and thus the “death rate” is astronomically lower than we were told.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/mit-tech-review-smears-study-proving-covid-19-overhyped/5710088

  88. Anon[382] • Disclaimer says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    I think initially out of laziness, I didn’t and then when I tried, they said I couldn’t for some reason, I pretty much can’t type and am basically technologically retarded despite only being 41, but I will try again.
    It won’t let me post comments from the same email address with a new handle, because I previously posted anonymously.

    I get the reason for the rule , and I am glad they have them to avoid people gaming things but when I initially commented , I didn’t see the point as I figured then that my comments would be very infrequent.

    To make matters worse I had a comment I worked on for 20 minutes in response to someone saying I was overstating my case about the ability to cure all cancer by roughly 1950.
    It was about the lack of progress, the underlying mechanisms, explained some anomalies around the subject and dissected alot of the narrative around cancer and gave resources for further study and they marked it as spam, maybe they thought I was shilling for the sources, but I just hate when people make statements without telling me where I can verify them for myself.

    Thanks for the compliment btw.

    Be well, keep an open mind and have a nice day.

  89. Tor597 says:

    Project G-2101: Pentagon biolab discovered MERS and SARS-like coronaviruses in bats

    http://dilyana.bg/project-g-2101-pentagon-biolab-discovered-mers-and-sars-like-coronaviruses-in-bats/

    • Thanks: Erebus
    • Replies: @Parfois1
  90. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Johnny Walker Read

    “Commies on full parade today. ”

    Yes. Roberts is either a paid-up CCP agent or just another unpaid useful idiot for China. The same goes for Unz himself, as far as I can see.

    This site is now either a thinly disguised outlet for Chinese commie/fascist propaganda, or, Unz is himself just another innocent but useful idiot who doesn’t know what the hell he’s really supporting here. He’s just another leftist, statist idolizer of big government, after all, when all’s said and done.

    David Icke video [ Bitchute] “China Today- The World Tomorrow”: bitchute.com/video/OlaunilAtnOr/

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Agree: Johnny Walker Read
    • Replies: @skrik
    , @skrik
  91. skrik says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    The person/agent who released SARS-CoV-2 is most likely the only *murdering, criminal arsehole* on the planet who knows who/where Patient Zero is/was. [Could be multiples, like US, China & Iran, say.] Covid-19 may infect, leaving a victim asymptomatic, with mild cold- or flu- like symptoms, or the victim may turn blue and collapse due to oxygen-starvation. In the few 1st instances anywhere, the attending physicians may be puzzled, perplexed or paralysed [with fear]. Some jurisdictions do not submit sequences to the GISAID database [some/lots of US, all of Iran, say]. Kindly inform us of your means, motive etc.. IMHO Godfree Roberts as others in here are genuinely seeking after truth, what are you looking for?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  92. denk says:

    US mayor says may have had COVID-19 last November

    http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1187495.shtml

  93. Wally says:
    @anonymous

    said:
    “We know what to expect from the likes of “A123,” “Lot,” “Wally,” and their ilk, but one of their most droll and trollish foils, “Corvinus, ” also seems genuinely upset with Ron Unz and others who dare question the narrative”

    – Yawn. This is your idea of a response?

    – It’s noted that you have not, cannot refute what I have posted.

    – However, I am quite pleased to be sooo in your head.

    – Your pathetic & silly suck up to the boss is noted.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  94. @Znzn

    The irony is that smokers and even smokers who quit are less likely to get Covid 19 according to statistics published recently. There’s no justice in this world but I’m not complaining, I quit 4 years ago.

  95. The zionists are in control of China and Russia and the ZUS and are using the coronavirus scam to bring a one world government, a satanist project that is close to being a done deal.

    • Replies: @Paul C.
  96. Alfred says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    Dr. Shulepov tested positive for the coronavirus and said in a now-retracted video that he was being forced to continue working anyway.

    A positive PCR test is almost meaningless. A positive test for antibodies means that this person has been infected and can no longer fall ill or infect others. The idea that the doctor was forced to work when he had difficulty breathing is the sort of crap that only Westerners who follow CNN would believe. There are more than 3000 hospitals in Russia. Doctors do commit suicide in Russia like everywhere else.

    What I’ve learned from my tally of 757 doctor suicides (USA 2018)

    Please bring a little science into the discussion.

  97. Jiminy says:

    I think that soon we may see the supreme leader, or the ratpack reverse their stance and claim that those degenerates al qaeda brought the virus out of their bat cave, releasing it in several countries. Especially the Maryland area in January 2019. It certainly makes more sense than “the China did it” routine they are pushing. At night as the supreme leader gets tucked into bed with his rubber doll and burgers, the ratpack is out and about thinking how the hell do we make China play the game. I’m sure they don’t let him in on half of what’s going on. I’m actually starting to believe that I’ve got a front row seat to the demise of an empire. I’ll be able to say to my grandkids that I was there when God’s best country shot itself in both feet. Perhaps it is time for the people to demand a regime change. Are the rats leaving the sinking ship yet?

  98. Anon[382] • Disclaimer says:
    @bigduke6

    Ricecel seethe huh?

    Took me forever to figure out what a ricecel was I must admit.

    I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but Im 100% Italian, served in the American military, never been to china in my life. And as a younger man when getting women was in my hopper of priorities ,I punched way above my weight.

    The fact that you throw around a derivative of incel as a slur , shows you have no ability to remember the shame associated with an” inability to get laid” for most men , until which time they finally do get that monkey off their back. I was 18 going on 19 and remember that shame quite well . That monkey was getting increasingly heavy.I made up for lost time, but it doesnt stop me from empathizing with those young men, when you realize they have approx half the testosterone their grandfather’s did ( mostly due to toxic polution/ plastics/ empty calories) and more often than not , the advice they are given sends them in the complete opposite direction of success ( be yourself, be nice to them )
    They are sent elephant hunting with a squirrel gun.

    The fact you would choose to shame somebody for that, shows you are an a&$hole and I wonder if you aren’t actually projecting?
    The fact that you didn’t make any effort to refute the claims i made, shows you are a moron.

    Just ad hominem attacks that aren’t even accurate.( Do you have any latin? I’m guessing no)

    Do you really think the only reason ,that somebody could see china as a worthy adversary, see things from their point of view and the difficulties they have , and have more of a problem with the American traitors who got us here and continue to obfuscate the real problems is because they are a Chinese person who can’t get laid? Me thinks what is much more likely that you couldn’t face facts on our countries ( I’m presuming you are American) place in the world( middle of the pack and rapidly sinking) .

    All unz readers should familiarize themselves with the hierarchy of arguments.
    https://rgambler.com/2016/06/10/hierarchy-of-argument/

    I mean there are alot of bright people here but the forums/ comments section at slateslarcodex.com this is not.

    I come here to be enlightened and have bright people intelligently challenge my assumptions, not to have novel ad hominems thrown at me by morons , that I then have to waste time even trying to make sense of.

    Up until extremely recently we had an elite that pretended china was our greatest ally( besides Israel/ that refuses a mutual defense pact with us) despite all their human rights issues , and love to tell us how great their manufactures were to us, despite all the evidence to the contrary and despite , the main reason American standard of living has fallen being mostly the fall of unions, housing becoming prohibitively expensive anywhere that there are jobs( Steve sailer) and the costs of services, mainly higher ed and healthcare.
    We can pretend that Moore’s law somehow negates all that, but that’s all we would be doing Is pretending.

    And when being unabashedly pro china was the narrative, I vigorously pushed back on it.

    Now that the narrative is becoming Everything china did is evil, while completely ignoring the US’s track record , and pretending like china benefits from anything that happened the past few months, and pretending like the US should want any part of a war with China, Russia and Iran just because Neocons( quick name a goy neocon besides Cheney,Bolton or max boot, bet you probably can’t) have never seen a war they didn’t like.

    I wouldn’t like our chances in a war with Iran ,the weakest of the three( if people aren’t aware we have lost in Afghanistan / the Taliban control more territory than before 9/11 see William Lind )

    [MORE]

    The last unscripted war game the US had was in in 2002 with a red team simulating Iran and it wasn’t pretty. We don’t hold unscripted war games anymore because we were so embarrassed.

    https://geopoliticsalert.com/millennium-challenge-us-navy-lost-simulated-war-iran

    Putin as of mar 1st 2018 has 5 new weapons systems that we have basically no counters for to say nothing of their better planes at much less cost( see the national interests article comparing the su-35 to the f-35, that recently was shown to be unable to go above mach 2 or it permanently ruins it’s stealth capabilities) the Russians s-400 and s-500 around the world are known to be vastly superior to American missile defense ( we offered the Saudis a much better price than the Russians, to which they said , thank you very much, but we prefer that it actually works)
    When US missile defense remained silent after the north koreans launched missiles close to Japan, the rest of the world read that to mean our missile defense does not work ( see John Dolan aka the war nerd’s reporting for details)

    In Vladimir Putin’s State of the Nation speech in Moscow on Mar 1 (tinyurl.com/y8hostwd), he boasted of six new Russian systems: a Sarmat nuclear-powered ICBM (intercontinental ballistic missile), the Kinzhal aircraft-launched hypersonic missile, the Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle, a nuclear-powered underwater drone, a nuclear-powered cruise missile, and a combat laser. Putin claims that the Kinzhal missile can “penetrate through all existing and projected air defense systems and deliver a nuclear or conventional warhead over a distance in excess of 2,000 kilometers—1,200 miles.”

    Dr. Miller stated: “Putin’s speech…publicly ended U.S. military supremacy. The United States is no longer the world’s technologically superior superpower. Russia is.”

    Concerning hypersonic weapons, Gen. John Hyten, Commander of the U.S. Strategic Command, told Congress: “We don’t have any defense that could deny the employment of such weapons against us….”

    The Sukhoi Su-57 jet fighter, one-tenth the cost of an F-35, features stealth, supersonic flight, super maneuverability, and sensor fusion. In October, the Pentagon grounded the entire F-35 fleet for days for a fuel tube issue. And at least a dozen F-22 fighters took a beating from Hurricane Maria, unable to escape the storm because of lack of needed parts. Only about 7 in 10 Air Force planes are mission ready (WSJ 10/16/18).

    What are the implications of these systems, if they indeed operate as claimed? As one analyst put it, “US aircraft carrier battle groups can only be used against small, defenseless nations” (https://tinyurl.com/y6w4en8w).

    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/russias-su-35-vs-americas-stealth-f-35-who-wins-fight-81996

    https://defensionem.com/russian-anti-stealth-radars/#

    And China holds so many Trump cards in geopolitics that it’s like they are playing 4d chess and we are fingerpainting

    https://news.yahoo.com/chinas-df-100-anti-ship-050000697.html

    This article is a bit dated , china has several new , and much better anti ship missiles but the article is great for how it explains what this means to the US
    http://exiledonline.com/the-war-nerd-this-is-how-the-carriers-will-die/

    If somebody really wants a great overview of how far the mighty have fallen and why the US does not come close to having military superiority anymore , Andrei martyanov’s two books are indispensable.

    The real revolution in military affairs and losing military supremacy.

    Speak softly and secret 6 guns on your person?
    Sounds like Putin.

    Study your ass off and work out and train kung Fu everyday for years , until you are 10x better than your opponent
    Sounds like China

    Refuse to fight , even though you are a legitimate bad ass, because you don’t want to escalate things, even though that guy that always trips you is pretty much a twerp
    Sounds like Iran

    Run your f$#kibg mouth every single chance you get , despite being completely over the hill and getting worse and worser everyday.
    And continue to basically bully and take advantage of literally everyone else , so much they grow to resent you but keep telling yourself they are terrified of you , despite losing at least your last 5 fights all to much smaller guys , and losing pretty badly.

    Guess who’s strategy that is.

    Now instead of airbrushing all China’s sins , so that our leaders can continue to make their shekels, they now sense we are getting fed up and instead of looking in the mirror and possibly making changes, before it’s too late, they continue to bloviate, and want to distract us by saying that china is the source of all the worlds troubles. But we can’t bring manufacturing back to the USA though because that would be too expensive , so let’s just move most to India and the rest to Vietnam

    Two best articles I’ve seen explaining the new agenda are below , if anyone is aware of any content in a similar vein, please bring it to my attention.

    https://voxday.blogspot.com/2019/09/the-pivot-to-china-is-definitely-off.html?m=1

    https://www.unz.com/estriker/international-finances-anti-china-crusade/

    • Thanks: Alfred
    • Replies: @mcohen
  99. Ron Unz says:

    Well, American propaganda is certainly vastly superior to the Chinese variety, but China did apparently release this amusing short video, which seems a pretty accurate account of the events of the last few months:

    • Replies: @Realist
    , @Avery
  100. Alden says:
    @Adrian E.

    That’s not how China flu spread from Wuhan to the entire planet. According to all the LOL experts on UNZ the virus was created in a lab at Fort Derrick MD. Then all the Americans who went to the Wuhan military games spread the virus around the bat soup and butcher stands of Wuhan and went home cackling in glee at what they did.

    Being American morons working for the eeeeevvvvviiiiiilll Trump administration they didn’t realize the virus would spread all over the world killing half the world’s population in a month.

    6 months into the 2019-20 flu season and America still hasn’t reached the deaths of the 2017/19 flu seasons. That may be true, but according to the Wise MEN OF UNZ, the bizarro quintuple exponent math will soon arrive and we’ll all die.

    Coronavirus is one of the most common viruses around. They even vaccinate dogs and domestic herds against it.

    And who watches TV news?

  101. 450.org says:
    @Alfred

    Doctors do commit suicide in Russia like everywhere else.

    Yes, and when they do, they all agree to jump out of hotel windows. It’s called the Hypocritical Oath and it’s a promise to their colleagues that when they commit suicide, they do it by this method in order to make a big splash.

  102. skrik says:
    @onebornfree

    An old expression: “Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit,” updated for the here and now, boys: ‘Video is the lowest form of information’ [huge bandwidth, wastes much time to watch in ‘real’ time, can’t copy’n paste even the tiniest detail.] Oh; not so BTW, isn’t your speciality [filthy] hasbara? Why are you in this thread? Know anything about ad hominem fallacies?

  103. skrik says:
    @onebornfree

    PS Unless, of course, not the Chinadiditry but Joosdiditry?

  104. d dan says:
    @utu

    “Pushing the theory that the disease appeared first in the US preys on the ignorance of not understanding the dynamics of how the disease spreads, meaning that pushing this theory can’t be done in good faith. Does anybody expect to find good faith in a propagandist?”

    There is no need to impute Godfree of “bad faith” – you can just agree to disagree. There are so many known variables, so many known unknown variables and also the unknown unknown variables. Each variable has to be collected by thousands of medical and government workers throughout the world with vastly different standards, knowledge, assumptions and competency. Even the data for the best known variables may not accurate. The techniques to understand the so-called “dynamics of how the disease spreads” is more an art rather than a science.

    So it is hard to rule out any single theory at this stage. Be open minded.

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @utu
  105. @Alfred

    If I ever find any real science I will most assuredly do so. I do not consider the propaganda spouted by Fauci, Gates, the CDC, or the WHO to be anywhere near REAL SCIENCE
    Cheers

    • Thanks: Alfred
  106. Alden says:

    1968 Hong Kong flu deaths in the US 100,000 deaths out of 200 million

    2020 China flu, 76,000 deaths out of 340 million give or take 10-50 million uncounted illegals.

    For a math science high IQ group, THE MEN OF UNZ sure are credulous and naive.

    My only concern is who benefits? Obviously American liberals communists Jews and PRC propagandists benefit because if enough people believe the propaganda A Biden Black woman presidency will be elected.

    But how the elites of every other country in the world will benefit is beyond me Any ideas about how this naive believe in the China Plague will benefit anyone on earth other than the democrat party?

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Replies: @skrik
    , @utu
  107. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    OK, this one’s a good example of you needlessly alienating people with your obsessive defensiveness about the Chinese government. You’ve hit the Agree button for several of my comments, but if you suspect I’m “trolling,” too, please ask a trusted friend or family member if she thinks that you might be undermining your valuable efforts to counter Chinadidit propaganda.

  108. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    Not in my head, just one of those boring, serial commenters who I scroll past at sight of the name. I read this one because you directed it to me.

  109. @Godfree Roberts

    I agree wholeheartedly. Same thing for America. The wife caught this crap(or something very similar?) right before Thanksgiving and was sick until Christmas. I had a shorter bout with it around the first of December that lasted about two weeks. Everybody I know who was sick and/or had similar symptoms did so way before it was even heard of in Wuhan.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Anon
    , @neprof
  110. @schnellandine

    ctrl-n, duckduckgo, return, Chinese National anthem sheet music, return, (Take your pick)

  111. Agent76 says:

    May 6, 2020 #ExposeCBS Michigan Health Center Workers Stage “Fake Patients” In COVID19 Testing Line For CBS News

    • Thanks: Johnny Walker Read
  112. Bruce Aylward is Canadian.

  113. Why would a medically competent country be investigated by a medically incompetent one?

    To play out classical imperial scenario. A team of foxes investigates a break-in into chicken coup. The verdict is predictable: Xi/Putin/Maduro/whoever did it, whereas the fox with feathers on its muzzle is absolutely innocent. That’s the rule of law, imperial style.

    • LOL: Godfree Roberts
  114. archeon says:

    It would be a honor to be detained alongside you in the camps when they come Godfree Roberts.
    You are a brave man.

    • Agree: Iris, Harold Smith
  115. @Johnny Walker Read

    Everybody I know who was sick and/or had similar symptoms did so way before it was even heard of in Wuhan.

    That’s an un-American fact. You have to remember that spreading the truth that undermines the imperial propaganda line is punishable by indefinite incarceration w/o due process.

    • Agree: Realist
  116. skrik says:
    @Alden

    Any ideas about how this naive believe in the China Plague will benefit anyone on earth other than the democrat party?

    News: The only beneficiaries of the Covid-19 [or any other catastrophe] are the joos, who control all the ‘money’ [=fiat, conjured off a keyboard otherwise of *zero* value], but beware any person/business that doesn’t/can’t pay the rent/interest, who will surely all be ‘rooned.’ ‘Great’ system; why is any such system ‘allowed,’ let alone tolerated?

  117. utu says:
    @Alden

    1968 vs. 2020? You are comparing apples and oranges. 1968 was not moderated by the countermeasures. The infection rate was orders of magnitude higher than it is in 2020.

  118. Anon[191] • Disclaimer says:

    “Patient Zero, when he arrives, will introduce us to the animal vector that brung him.”

    Patient Zero, when he arrives, will introduce us to the animal vector that brought him.

    • Replies: @skrik
    , @schnellandine
    , @Herald
  119. Shaman911 says:

    CDC

    Seedy See

    We’re never going to know the truth from anyone ever.
    This process we’re in now is the pre-war propaganda process.
    Making enemies out of former friends.
    Same format since the stone age.

    • Agree: Curmudgeon
  120. @utu

    There is nothing in the Foster et al. paper that could warrant any extrapolations to September.

    I wonder what was the “high fever” that some of the members of the US Team that went to the World Military Games in Wuhan were suffering from and were hospitalized with, while they were there? It was not ‘flu. All the members of the staff of the hotel they stayed in are said to have tested +ve for the covid-19 antibodies.

    • Replies: @utu
  121. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    A friend of a friend who works in the intelligence community in DC told him back in January that many people had had the coronavirus in Oct/Nov last year in the DC area, they all just took antibiotics and got over it. When I first heard that I quickly dismissed it as impossible. This is a viral infection, antibiotics doesn’t help. But then a French doctor came out and said that he had treated many patients successfully with hydroxychloroquine and an antibiotic called azithromycin:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/04/07/denver-doctor-hydroxychloroquine-and-antibiotic-successfully-treated-coronavirus-patients/

    Now I’m beginning to think that intelligence guy might know something we don’t know.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
    , @SteveK9
  122. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Harold Smith

    Wow. I wonder if they might have blood samples left from that, although last July was almost 10 months ago. They should do a Covid-19 antibody test for those who recovered.

    The Seattle Times reported today that a 70 year old who was on ventilator for nearly 4 weeks survived and was allowed to go home yesterday. He was expected to die when all his organs shut down one by one, but by some miracle the doctors were able to cure him. Amazing.

  123. anon[191] • Disclaimer says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    The woman’s looking at him like he just ran over her cat!

  124. skrik says:
    @Anon

    will introduce us to the animal vector that brought him

    Nope; it will reveal to us, the criminal agent who premeditatedly and with malice aforethought, deliberately inflicted this utter, *man-made* catastrophe upon humanity. There; fixed it for you. Note that when the great majority of the ‘Western’ MSM denies “man-made,” that actually is confirmation that it is, and directly identifies the creators. rgds

    • Agree: Alfred
  125. @Anon

    Excellent comment, 417. Thanks.

  126. @Anon

    “Patient Zero, when he arrives, will introduce us to the animal vector that brung him.”

    Patient Zero, when he arrives, will introduce us to the animal vector that brought him.

    Any English-speaking pedant worth his painted spats wouldn’t have bothered with such a “correction”, given the long history of the ironic “brung” in similar context. Did you just out yourself as a fer’ner?

  127. Sam 12123 says:

    The OPCW is claimed to be an independent agency but we know that it suppressed the results of its own engineers when it reported that the Syrian government was responsible for the alleged chemical attack in Douma. The former head of the agency has publicly asserted that when John Bolton demanded that he step down, he added, “We know where your children live.” The US has a history of corruption and intimidation. Any investigation would result in finding China responsible just as Russia was found to be responsible for the airliner that was shot down over Ukraine.

  128. Anon[224] • Disclaimer says:

    I was convinced that this virus originated from China, then a series of things happened that cast doubt on that assumption. The first is the series of actions taken by the Trump admin as soon as China went on lockdown in Wuhan. Almost immediately, Trump-Pompeo et. al. went on offense. Within a week they had 1) charged Huawei’s CFO with racketeering, a charge normally reserved for mob bosses who ordered murders, 2) Pompeo attended the World Security Conference in Munich and told Europe that China is losing, America is winning, and that Europe needs to stick with the US, 3) Mark Esper Secretary of Defense spoke right after Pompeo and told the Europeans China is our biggest threat, not Russia, 4) Trump ban sale of all jet engines to China, 5) Trump ban sale of microchips to Huawei even from non-US companies, 6) the strange arrest of the Harvard Chemistry professor with dubious charges of ties to China.

    These things occurred in quick succession while China was busy fighting Covid-19, it was like kicking someone while they are down. You almost have to wipe the glee off these Zionists’ faces. Meanwhile Zerohedge went on daily attacks of China, almost immediately started blaming the Wuhan lab without any evidence, and hysterically publishing models that predicted 30 million deaths from Covid-19. Breitbart the Zionist mouthpiece also went on daily attacks of China calling it “Chinese virus” etc., with Tom Cotton the foremost Zionist dog barking like crazy behind all the Wuhan lab accusations right from the get go. Now Pompeo has come out accusing the Wuhan lab, while presenting little to no evidence.

    I would’ve been far more suspicious of the Wuhan lab if all these Zionist dogs didn’t bark like crazy with their accusations. But now that they have, it’s making me think the opposite might be true, that they orchestrated this whole thing and engineered the virus. It would explain why Iran and Italy, China’s two closest allies, are getting hit the worst. And now it’s also exploding in Russia, another of China’s closest allies. It’s just like I was supportive of Trump’s trade war with China until George Soros came out in support of it. Then I knew something was up.

    Anything that Pompeo and Soros support, I am against. Whatever that comes out of their mouths, I know that if I believe the opposite, I’d be a lot closer to the truth.

    • Agree: AnonFromTN, Alfred
    • Thanks: Ann Nonny Mouse, Tor597, Daemon
    • Replies: @Tor597
  129. Iris says:
    @utu

    Here is the webpage of the Phylogenetic Network design software used by Pr Forster, the geneticist author of the study:

    https://www.fluxus-technology.com/cov2020.htm

    – Click on the link labelled “Download classification of 1001 SARS-CoV-2 virus genome IDs from GISAID”
    – Download/open the MS Excel file.
    – Look at the worksheet named “Asians“.
    – Then look at the comments above the top linear regression plot/graphic.

    • Thanks: Huskynut, utu
    • Replies: @utu
  130. utu says:
    @foolisholdman

    “some of the members of the US Team “ – This article does not specify nationality of the five foreign athletes that fell sick in Wuhan but it states that it was malaria not Covid-19.

    Five foreign athletes from military world games in Wuhan infected with malaria, not COVID-19 in October 2019: hospital head
    https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1180549.shtml

    The article was published on Feb 24 when China was still making its mind what propaganda angle to take. I think they haven’t consulted with Godfree Roberts yet.

    • Thanks: Saggy
    • Replies: @Saggy
  131. Derer says:
    @Ron Unz

    This is a Washington shameless slander…there was enough time to prepare for the Covid19 spread. Washington was caught unprepared, they never expected it would make a home run here – miscalculation.

    • Replies: @Alden
  132. @AnonFromTN

    With Julian Assange the prime example of that.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
  133. Anon[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jake

    and I know that the Yank WASP Elites ape the Brit WASP Elites in everything,

    Replace that with the American Jewish elite coordinate with the British Jewish elite in everything, and you’d get this one right.

    The Chinese Communist Party is no more corrupt than the Deep State, just a little less unctuous, and at least they also try to make life better for their citizens while enriching themselves. Our (((elites))) only care about making life better for themselves, while feeding the masses nothing but lies and BS through their media mouthpieces and academic “experts”.

    Bill Gates was involved in the “Global Pandemic Exercise” that was organized by Johns Hopkins last October. The world needs an explanation on why that conference was held. The timing sure was suspicious. What do Bill and those virus “experts” know that we don’t know. The fictitious virus that was discussed, CAPS, was eerily similar to SARS-Cov-2:
    https://hub.jhu.edu/2019/11/06/event-201-health-security/

    The CAPS virus—which Toner describes as a cousin of SARS, “but slightly more transmissible, like the flu, and slightly more lethal”—was presented as resistant to any existing vaccine, as scientists scrambled to come up with one. Citizens, meanwhile, were rioting over scarce access to the next best thing: a fictional antiviral known to treat some CAPS symptoms.

    That scenario, Toner says, is utterly realistic. “We don’t have a vaccine for SARS, or MERS, or various avian flu viruses that have come up in the past decade,” he notes. “That’s because vaccine development is slow and difficult if there isn’t an immediate market for it.”

    In the simulation, CAPS resulted in a death toll of 65 million people within 18 months—surpassing the deadliest pandemic in history, the 1918 Spanish flu.

  134. utu says:
    @d dan

    “…you can just agree to disagree…” – Yes, but you can do much more in case of Godfree Roberts. There is enough material produced by Godfree Roberts to have no doubt that he has a strong pro-China interest bias which long time ago removed him form the category of those who search for truth. Zero benefit of doubt in his case. He is not the truth seeker. He manufactures and support narratives that always reflect and suit his pro-China bias.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Disagree: d dan
  135. @Anon

    Speaking of antibiotics, there are several papers on pubmed suggesting the use of doxycycline to treat COVID-19 (and the ARB drug telmisartan is apparently another off-the-shelf treatment possibility).

    In silico modeling shows that doxycycline might inhibit SARS-CoV-2 PLpro and 3CLpro; plus it has an anti-inflammatory effect. Doxy is highly bioavailable and crosses the blood brain barrier.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7102550/

    Apparently some clinical trials with doxycycline for COVID-19 are in the works.

    https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04371952

  136. @utu

    Disagree totally. He produces evidence, evidence in response to highly-coordinated anti-China propaganda, the mountains of belligerent lies that are all that remain today of the failed state the USA. Those lies plus its military killing millions all over the world, incessantly destroying or attempting to destroy states simply for being independent.

    Enormous thanks to Godfree Roberts.

  137. When I wanted to down load this article on my Facebook I received a message stating “This material could not be entered as some people find it abusive” . Is there anyone with the same experience. Please let me know. I think banning the article on social media proves it is right.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  138. Saggy says: • Website
    @utu

    Still, I’d like to see the results of antibody tests for the US team.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @acementhead
  139. @utu

    AND he is really fighting FOR the USA. If the USA simply dropped it’s exploitative profit-before-people, stopped spending or giving away money for the sake of its fiendish belligerence and its socialism in support of the rich the USA would be a better place, if it hadn’t been doing that fiendishness for decades would be a vastly, vastly better place.

    And if it today accepted the truth about China and became peaceful, dropped its belligerent lies and actions, used the vast wealth in the country to provide free education, free hospital care, free pharmaceuticals (on prescription) for all, free public transport, government-owed prisons, told everyone the good truths about China such as that their police are unarmed, and the bad truths such as claiming mineral rights over the water passage between Vietnam and the Philippines instead of its fakery about freedom of navigation which the USA has always squashed whenever it wanted to, the USA would be loved by the whole world instead of as today hated by the whole world.

    You should be thanking Roberts for his strivings to Make America Great.

  140. mcohen says:
    @Anon

    but anon I have POURED MORE bullshit than you so if anyone can set the record straight it’s me.

    I have never studied the “hierarchy of argument”.

    I leave that to the forum pro’s.Especially the 100% Italian stallion,military grade chingcels.

    lol

    “Chingcel”…..you read it first here on unz

  141. glib says:
    @Delta G

    I agree. He asked for 20B, then when Venter did it for 200M, he managed to get it done for 2B. Collins=Fauci for all matters and purposes. Godfree, you can edit him out of this article to no loss of clarity.

  142. 450.org says:

    Wow, I’m not quite sure what to make of this. The “workers” apparently played this over the intercom system during Trump’s idiotic tour. Were they taunting him or were they supporting him? After all, that is his policy related to the pandemic. Live and Let Die. If it was support, how sick are these people? They’re criminally and sadistically insane to taunt the nation and the world related to this virus.

    • Replies: @450.org
  143. 450.org says:
    @450.org

    Note he wears the goggles but no mask. Unreal. I guess it’s appropriate. It speaks to his vanity and superficiality. Don’t want to lose an eye. A lung or both, that’s fine because no one can see the lungs since they’re on the inside.

    These people are lunatics. Beyond the pale lunatics. America is governed by the criminally insane. And they have the nuclear football. Wrap your head around that. There is no opposition to these criminals. They’re effectively marching America into the gas chamber. Trump and the cabal backing him moved on America like a bitch. Talk about grabbing pussy.

    • Replies: @glib
  144. Realist says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    The best argument I have read from the anti China camp has been that if China succeeds, US dollar will be kaput, living standard in the USA will tanked to shit levels compare to right now.

    Why would China succeeding reduce our living standard?

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  145. Realist says:
    @Saggy

    No one should take anything they read on the internet as Gospel,…

    No one should take anything they read or hear from the US government as Gospel,…

    FIFY

    • Agree: Herald
  146. Realist says:
    @Ron Unz

    Well, American propaganda is certainly vastly superior to the Chinese variety…

    American propaganda is certainly more effective…but that is because of the stupidity of most Americans.

    Yes the video is accurate and that means the Chinese know us well…much better than we know them.

  147. @Realist

    If China succeeds, that means dollar as reserve currency is kaput. Without the reserved currency status, dollar will devalue by 50% or more. Living standard auto lowers by 50% or more.

    • Replies: @Realist
  148. utu says:
    @Iris

    Once again thanks for the link and instructions. Here is the text and graph:

    “The linear regression computes an East Asian mutation rate of 0.0403 (SD 0.00871) muts/d, so 1.2 (SD 0.26) muts/month/30kb genome. The X intercept is 102 to 17 days before 24 Dec. So the first infection and spread of the virus occurred at some point between 2019 Sep 13 and Dec 7 (95% confidence interval).”

    I can believe that finding the intercept, i.e., when. H=0 is an accepted methodology but I do not see how H=0 implies “the first infection”. Mutations H must be measured from some reference. If we change that reference by adding an offset ∆H the intercept will be shifted. Ok, I do not know much about it, just pondering.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Derer
  149. How is it possible for the virus to have been circulating in the community in the USA as early as September 2019 (or, as your previous article suggests, July 2019)? It is so contagious that, without countermeasures like PPE or quarantine, the number of cases in the early stages doubles every 4 days.

    Exponential growth is unforgiving, and strongly constrains any theory. 40 days after the first case, a thousand people would have been infected. After 80 days, a million. These numbers of cases were not reached in the USA until early April. Even assuming that testing uncovered only 10% of US cases in March and April, the other 90% being patients who were never tested, it is hard to push the USA’s index case any earlier than January 2020.

    A graph of cases by country (below the line) makes this clear. The virus was spreading among the human population in China before it reached the USA or anywhere else.

    Pick your theories carefully. It is implausible for community transmission to have started in the USA and spread to China. The most likely explanation is that the pandemic began in Wuhan; but the possibility of deliberate release by a foreign power cannot be dismissed.

    • Agree: Ron Unz, SteveK9
    • Replies: @Alden
  150. Herald says:
    @Anon

    “Patient Zero, when he arrives, will introduce us to the animal vector that brung him.”

    Patient Zero, when he arrives, will introduce us to the animal vector that brought him.

    Is that your best shot? Little wonder that you are posting as an “anon”

  151. @utu

    Coronavirus’s ability to mutate has been vastly underestimated, and mutations affect deadliness of strains, Chinese study finds
    The most aggressive strains of Sars-CoV-2 could generate 270 times as much viral load as the least potent type
    New York may have a deadlier strain imported from Europe, compared to less deadly viruses elsewhere in the United States.
    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3080771/coronavirus-mutations-affect-deadliness-strains-chinese-study

    • Thanks: d dan
    • Replies: @Herald
  152. @skrik

    I thought you made a lot of sense till the last two sentences.

    My answer is I seek logic and consistency partly as a check on a writer’s bona fides.

    • Replies: @skrik
  153. glib says:
    @450.org

    I do not wear a mask either, although I quickly put one on to avoid trouble with others if needed. I don’t think I am a lunatic. I understand that if you do not have any of the conditions of metabolic syndrome, plus good vitamin D status, the chance of getting really sick drop by close to two orders of magnitude.

  154. Anon[132] • Disclaimer says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    You and your wife should get a Covid-19 antibodies test. It would be crazy if it turns out this thing has been circulating since last Oct/Nov or even earlier in the US.

    WSJ and NYT both said that the intelligence community has been inconclusive when it comes to the real source of the virus. WSJ reported that Trump/Pompeo are trying to convince Europe to go along in pinning the source on the Wuhan lab and blaming China for the pandemic, but Brussels is reluctant to go along. Now France has confirmed the virus was already in France in December from someone who had not been out of the country since August in Algeria, and Sweden saying maybe it was already circulating there in November.

    The news sources that have been most enthusiastic in circulating this Wuhan lab accusation has been Zerohedge and Breitbart, while msm like NYT and WSJ have shown more restraint. Zerohedge has always been sensationalist but as far as I know does not have a particular Zionist link. Breitbart is certainly a major Zionist mouthpiece though, even has a columnist from the Jerusalem Times on their staff.

    The zeal and glee with which the Zionists and their puppets incl. evangelical dogs like Pompeo, Pence and Kyle Bass use this to attack China make me very suspicious of their claim. CDC is firmly in their pocket. I think we have to rely on the Europeans to get to the bottom of this.

    • Replies: @gay troll
  155. botazefa says:
    @bunsnroses

    (a) the virus is totally fake, as David Icke has concluded

    David Icke, is a lunatic who believes the world is secretly run by subterraneous human-lizard hybrids. Seriously.

    I think I’ll ignore anything that guy says.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Anon
  156. Gerard says:

    Facebook wont accept this article, stating that it is “offensive” to some people. Pure case of censorship.

    • Replies: @schnellandine
  157. Alden says:
    @Jake

    But the deadly plague created and sprinkled around the globe by the American military has killed fewer people than the winter flu of the last 2 years.

    It’s just a standard flu season, not as bad as the last 2 years, worse than some years, better than some years.

  158. Avery says:
    @Ron Unz

    I read somewhere a while back that Goebbels considered British propaganda superior to his, because British always presented propaganda as new.

  159. Alden says:
    @botazefa

    David Icke May be a totally insane flake, but he’s right about this year’s flu season; in contrast to the genius MEN OF UNZ who’ve been claiming hundreds of millions will dddiiiiiiiieeeeee

  160. Alden says:
    @James N. Kennett

    As of today, 202,368 deaths world wide out of a population of 7 billion

    Your exponents haven’t happened. Maybe next year.

    • Replies: @James N. Kennett
  161. Iris says:
    @utu

    Mutations H must be measured from some reference.

    Indeed, and they are. The reference genome is the sequenced virus’ strain which is the closest possible from the Bat outgroup. It is part of a cluster called “A Strain”.

    The criterion then used to plot any genome on the Y axis is to measure the “genetic distance”, in terms of “how many mutations”, between the reference genome and the considered daughter virus being added onto the curve

    You can find this reference genome in the Excel file too, by looking at the column labelled “Estimated distance from Root A type“, and filtering any genome which distance is “0″ (zero).

    I am no geneticist, but the method seems pretty straightforward and logical.
    It is based on a natural rate of mutation, so going back in time to H=0 shows when the Reference A Strain genome, with 0 genetic distance to itself, first appeared.

    • Replies: @utu
  162. @Wizard of Oz

    Not only has the CDC refused (as in not responded to requests for) data on its patient zero, it has refused to answer any questions about its earliest recorded infection, including those that it admitted had been misclassified as flu until a postmortem revealed that it was Covid-19.

  163. Anon[344] • Disclaimer says:
    @botazefa

    Well one of the problems with that would be, David icke said for decades that Jimmy saville was a pedophile, the BBC said he was crazy , bit when Jimmy died in 2011, we found out he had hundreds if not thousands of victims, and people turned a blind eye for years just like rotherdam. He preyed on the extremely young, kids in hospitals, the mentally challenged, and even their corpses.
    He was similar to dick Clark, except much more powerful, was knighted, had Christmas with the queen every year, was friends with the Beatles, and very Rich , despite no real large known sources of income ( procuring children for elites)

    The sex pistols in I believe 1972, were banned from the BBC supposedly for saying something about the queen, but in reality it was because they kept insisting that Jimmy saville was a pedophile.( Think about that notorious punk band standing up for kids, much more forcefully than the British government has in recent memory.)

    One of the director generals of the BBC , that had news stories about savile quashed repeatedly( ala Epstein) mark Thompson , is the current head/ CEO of the new York times. David icke was one of the few and the proud who said for years and years Savile was a pedo, that had state protection. Does that mean I think we are controlled by shape shifting lizard elites? Certainly not.
    But just because somebody is wrong on one issue, does not automatically disqualify them on every issue, a broke clock is right twice a day after all, but moreover a persons willingness and ability to endure ridicule to say what they believe is commendable and a signal they refuse to compromise. David icke and the sex pistols tried to protect kids, the BBC played the fiddle while Rome burned. Also I consider it possible Icke said the lizard stuff to render himself s laughing stock, so they didn’t feel it necessary to kill him. Check out his book , everything you need to know, and try and tell me with a straight face , the man is not brilliant.

    NTM is you are at all aware of Bayesian ( the absolute best way to make predictions, says anyone with a working brain)reasoning you realize that one single data point can serve to discredit someone’s other opinions, very significantly, but never all the way to zero.

    Be well,remember to keep an open mind, and have a great day.

    • Thanks: Alden
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  164. @Realist

    Absolutely right.

    Carlson has become a nightly megaphone for China bashing without a single mention of a verifiable fact to support that bashing.

    I don’t watch him anymore.

    • Replies: @Realist
  165. @Contraviews

    Is that the same Facebook that deactivated dozens of accounts of Palestinian journalists and activists last night?

    • Thanks: Iris
  166. The Cambridge University study, by Forster et al, examined 160 viral genomes available from GISAID in early March 2020.

    Five days after the Cambridge study was published electronically by PNAS, GISAID issued a statement pointing out the limitations of the data available at that time (full statement and URL below the fold):

    It is important to note that there is currently not enough data from the early outbreak period to interpret the early history of global transmissions from few genomes in detail. Links that seem directly connected now are likely to be connected via other cases also from other countries not sampled and sometimes can be connected differently later with more data.

    A prime example for this was the first German sample from Bavaria which initially looked like the ancestor of most subsequent European cases only until more sequences came in from China and the Netherlands confirming that the very same variant has been present in multiple locations at the same time which means the transmission routes are much more complex than the early incomplete picture suggested. More data and analysis on ongoing evolution of the virus is becoming available daily via the GISAID platform.

    The GISAID platform now has 16,000 viral genomes. It is certain that professionals in the field are closely examining the new data, although the limited number of older samples might still pose constraints on understanding the early history of the virus. The data, and the software used by Forster et al, are available free of charge if anybody would like to do their own work on the subject.

    From Forster et al, https://www.pnas.org/content/117/17/9241

    The nucleotide sequences of the SARS-CoV-2 genomes used in this analysis are available, upon free registration, from the GISAID database (https://www.gisaid.org/). The Network5011 software package and coronavirus network files are available as shareware on the Fluxus Technology website (https://www.fluxus-engineering.com/).

    [MORE]

    https://www.gisaid.org/references/statements-clarifications/different-types-or-clades-of-the-virus-and-their-origin/#c501

    Natural evolution of the hCoV-19 virus, April 13, 2020

    GISAID Comments on the Discussion of Different Types or Clades of the hCoV-19 Virus and their Origin

    As the outbreak evolves over time and more data becomes available, several colleagues have analyzed and proposed different “types” of the virus and their origin. Depending on choice of definitions one can classify the circulating virus strains into a different number of clades based on genetic variants. These are part of the natural evolution of the virus currently not known to be associated with any differences in virulence.

    Changes in prevalence of these variants in the short term are expected and often driven by chance or so-called founder effects rather than immediate evolutionary pressure. GISAID’s daily summaries of strains distinguishes clades based on genetic marker variants but this is subject to change following the viral evolution.

    It is important to note that there is currently not enough data from the early outbreak period to interpret the early history of global transmissions from few genomes in detail. Links that seem directly connected now are likely to be connected via other cases also from other countries not sampled and sometimes can be connected differently later with more data.

    A prime example for this was the first German sample from Bavaria which initially looked like the ancestor of most subsequent European cases only until more sequences came in from China and the Netherlands confirming that the very same variant has been present in multiple locations at the same time which means the transmission routes are much more complex than the early incomplete picture suggested. More data and analysis on ongoing evolution of the virus is becoming available daily via the GISAID platform.

  167. Anon[146] • Disclaimer says:

    Hi all,

    Ive been saying for a minute privately that this virus has affected countries all over the world, and those nations’ intel agencies will look into its origin. Its not like 9/11. They are all directly harmed, and will look into it. They can anonymously let people know the world over via the internet and facebook, so it will be known amongst the thinking as 9/11 already is (dancing israeli-mossad agents, $ilverstein insurance policies, art students, white vans with traces of explosives, fireman hearing explosions, thermite, etc). Give em’ bout a year or two.

  168. Alden says:
    @Derer

    There was no reason to prepare for this 2020 ordinary flu season. As of today, 74,121 deaths attributed to the China flu out of 330 million population.

    There is no epidemic. The non experts of the research centers, public health departments, tyrannical Democrat governors and hysterics including THE MEN OF UNZ predicted millions in the US and billions worldwide would die.

    Now you’re all eagerly anticipating a summer flu season hoping millions will diiiiieeeeee

  169. utu says:
    @Iris

    When H=0 depends on the reference from which H is measured.

    • Replies: @Iris
  170. @Alden

    Your exponents haven’t happened. Maybe next year.

    The exponential growth happens in the early stages (see figure below the fold). It slows down when a country realizes it has a problem and takes measures to reduce transmission of the virus. If no such measures are taken, the exponential growth flattens off as the virus runs out of people who have not been previously infected.

    – Figure from https://science.sciencemag.org/content/367/6484/1287/tab-figures-data

  171. Alden says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Because of your bias in favor of China and everything about China, you have no credibility at all. You remind me of late night TV ads about miracle diet pills, over the counter testosterone supplements and the latest anti aging food.

    Interesting that since the hundreds of millions dead predictions have not come true, you’re now obsessing about finding a patient zero. Why not concentrate on outing the American military person who smuggled the vial of virus into Wuhan and flew around town sprinkling the deadly plague about?

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Godfree Roberts
  172. Paul C. says:
    @Desert Fox

    Correct. Here is proof of the Plandemic.

    [MORE]

    Ed Hendrie — Congress Passed Relief Bill Before Pandemic Started

    “How could the U.S. Congress know that there would be a need for such legislation to address an illness that had not even been reported to have occurred in the United States?”

    On January 3, 2020, H.R. 748 was introduced in the House of Representatives. That bill stated that the short title is as follows:

    “This Act may be cited as the ‘Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act’ or the ‘CARES Act’.”

    The problem is that when that bill was introduced there were no coronavirus cases reported in the United States. Indeed, it was not until January 20, 2020, that the first alleged confirmed case of COVID-19 was reported in the United States.
    Even more suspicious is that the date of the bill, H.R. 748, January 3, 2020, came two days prior to the W.H.O. news release on January 5, 2020, of a reported outbreak of “pneumonia of unknown etiology (unknown cause)” in Wuhan City, China.

    That means that as of January 5, 2020 coronavirus had not been identified as the cause of the outbreak of illness in Wuhan City in China. And to keep it in perspective, on that date, the illness was reported to affect only 44 people. The W.H.O emergency preparedness news release stated:

    “On 31 December 2019, the WHO China Country Office was informed of cases of pneumonia of unknown etiology (unknown cause) detected in Wuhan City, Hubei Province of China. As of 3 January 2020, a total of 44 patients with pneumonia of unknown etiology have been reported to WHO by the national authorities in China. Of the 44 cases reported, 11 are severely ill, while the remaining 33 patients are in stable condition. According to media reports, the concerned market in Wuhan was closed on 1 January 2020 for environmental sanitation and disinfection.

    The causal agent has not yet been identified or confirmed. On 1 January 2020, WHO requested further information from national authorities to assess the risk.”

    Pneumonia of unknown cause – China, World Health Organization

    My question is, how could the U.S. Congress know that there would be a need for such legislation to address an illness that had not even been reported to have occurred in the United States?

    How could the U.S. Congress know on January 3, 2020, to name the legislation the “Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act” when coronavirus had not yet been identified on that date as the cause for an illness on the other side of the world in China?

    The W.H.O. had not identified it as a pandemic as it only affected 44 people and it was an illness from an “unknown etiology (unknown cause).”

    How could the U.S. Congress know that there would be a need for economic relief from a pandemic before there was any indication of a pandemic?

    And how could they know to name the bill after a virus that was only later identified as the alleged cause for the alleged pandemic?

    https://www.henrymakow.com

  173. @Godfree Roberts

    I would need to look at the correspondence to be sure it was being interpreted correctly (e.g. have you, as Godfree Roberts, been one of those pestering busy scientists with demands for information?). Has FOI been used? That would be the obvious course for anyone serious about it.

    So far, though I accept the general incompetence and ass-covering of bureaucrats I don’t see why the CDC isn’t simply acting on its “too early to be sure” opinion and noting that the information on those subjects is still in flux.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  174. gay troll says:
    @Anon

    By all appearances Michael Snyder recently became involved in ZeroHedge. He is now the king of the Tylers and publishing more of his shlock without a proper byline, in addition to republishing his work from other websites. He has a super hard on for a Zionist end of days just like Trump and his handlers.

  175. NoNickYet says:
    @Harold Smith

    Not from the States, but is Fairfax County not awfully close to Fort Detrick? Also the date is very suspicious, not long after FD closed.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  176. @Gerard

    Facebook wont accept this article,

    Apparently, all of UR is banned by Faceberk.

    Pure case of censorship.

    So? Censorship is no more inherently bad than discrimination, but both words are used selectively for emotion-raising.

    UR censors routinely. It even censors access to the site, since not doing so would knock it off the internet.

    What’s required to squash the vast anti-sensibility campaign from the leftist interborg is censorship of them, preferably permanently, and launched on the same day. All freedom-oriented folk, whether as organizations or individuals, should exit the leftist web together. Gone. No participation, whether writing or lurking.

    But they all cling until the last instead of switching to offense. Frankly, anyone who ever used Faceberk for anything needs a new mind regimen.

    My fantasy is every single non-leftist entity abandoning leftborg at once and entirely (no mirroring, no content left behind) for solely non-leftist platforms. And it should be done before this summer. That means no Twatter, googplex, YouTube, NYT comments, Faceberk, etc. Departed together, forever.

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  177. Alden says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Why should the CDC release data to liars and hysterics who’d fill TV and print news with a lot of falsehoods about the data? The liars and hysterics of media and you would just twist the data to your own biases.

    The liars and hysterics predicted millions of deaths worldwide 2 months ago. It’s 203,368 deaths worldwide as of today. Just the end of an ordinary flu season. Considering how the liars claimed this years flu season was the worst plague ever, I know they’d just lie about whatever data CDC or any public health authority released.

    Pitch your advertising agency to makers of testosterone supplements and miracle diet pills.

  178. @Godfree Roberts

    CDC is obviously covering up. But it can be covering up two things. One, American origin of the virus (I still think that it is unlikely to have been engineered, but could have been isolated and spread by the US, intentionally or unintentionally). Two, its own incompetence. I’d say it’s a fifty-fifty, both are equally likely.

  179. @Wizard of Oz

    simply acting on its “too early to be sure” opinion

    There is Russian saying: “Don’t show an incomplete work to a complete fool”.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  180. @Paul C.

    That “Ed Hendrie” quote seems to be complete BS, even qualifying for the word “lie” which is too freely thrown around on UR threads.

    I Googled “he 748” and discovered that the introduction of the proposed legislation is clearly not 3 January but 24 January.

    If you are going to throw in something so potentially devastating to the received story you should take the trouble to check and double check before emitting.

  181. @NoNickYet

    I think it is roughly 40 miles away from Ft. Detrick. Apparently the outbreak at Greenspring Retirement Community began on June 30, and I believe Ft. Detrick was closed in mid July.

    But it was apparently closed because of series of safety violations and “breaches (of containment).”

  182. Iris says:
    @utu

    I hope I understand your question.

    The iterations to create the Phylogenetic Network are launched using the Bat genome as an outgroup.

    The outgroup is not part of the actual virus being studied. It is a virus identified in the real life, which bears the closest similarity to the SARS-CoV-2, in our case the widely agreed-upon Bat virus with 96% similarity.

    The Bat outgroup genome is used to kick off an iterative process which returns one or several possible paths of evolution, linking between them all real Covid-19 viruses which have been sampled from patients and sequenced in labs worldwide.

    The network obtained allows to designate a reference cluster, and within it, a reference virus genome which is the closest possible from the Bat outgroup.

    In other terms, the refrence is assumed to be, out of all actually sequenced viruses, the one which must have appeared first in sequential order, because it us the closest from the bat’s.

    The plot already shows a number of points with Y=0, but the trend is of course not an exact mathematical function Y=a+bX. The linear regression approximates the slope by numerical analysis, producing the best possible fit, within an acceptable confidence interval.

    • Replies: @utu
  183. TRM says:

    Dr Judy Mikovits PHD, lays bare the dirty side of Dr Fauci and friends! Circulate this widely.

    https://banned.video/watch?id=5eb3062575314400169f3e6c

    The original video posted to YouTube had over 1 million views before it was deleted for contradicting the World Health Organization and the NIH.

    • Agree: Patagonia Man
  184. neprof says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    Posted earlier this spring in another post that my wife got something with identical symptoms to Convid19 in late August. I got it a week later. By mid October I went to the Doc thinking I had mono b/c the fatigue would come an go and the thing was 7 weeks going. Most persistent cough both of us ever had. Finally went away for me in early November. My guess, about 9-10 weeks to kick. My wife kick it faster but her cough was worse at its peak.

    We live outside of Omaha, no where near Ft. Detrick. Heard an antibody test is now available for around $100; plan to get one soon.

  185. Iris says:
    @Alden

    Instead of being obsessed with Godfree Roberts’ persona, you should be obsessed with finding actual arguments proving your “China Bad” stance. In the meantime,…..

    • Agree: Patagonia Man
  186. @Godfree Roberts

    Not only has the CDC refused (as in not responded to requests for) data on its patient zero, it has refused to answer any questions about its earliest recorded infection, including those that it admitted had been misclassified as flu until a postmortem revealed that it was Covid-19.

    Do you have a source for this statement? I can’t find one.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  187. @Alden

    Because of your bias in favor of China and everything about China, you have no credibility at all.

    Do non-negative facts about China = Bias in favor of China?

    Can you provide a direct quote illustrating my bias and give the link and context? Thanks.
    Interesting that since the hundreds of millions dead predictions have not come true, you’re now obsessing about finding a patient zero. Who predicted hundreds of millions of deaths?

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Godfree Roberts
  188. @AnonFromTN

    Surely you concede that competent people might well decide to discourage random people taking its time with multiple questions when the answer would be in effect “ll have a ring around and see where we are today with all the new data that floods in”.

  189. @Anon

    Were you telling us about David Icke on Jimmy Savile from.memory? If so it is odd that his long Wikipedia entry doesn’t throw up a single reference to Savile.

    • Replies: @Anon
  190. @Godfree Roberts

    Hello Godfree-

    This just in over at Sputnik:

    https://sputniknews.com/military/202005071079224093-coronavirus-survivors-to-be-permanently-disqualified-from-joining-us-military-/

    So, if this story is true, if you survive Covid-19 infection, you are now barred from joining the US military? You’d figure they would WANT young people who have previously had the virus but have supposedly developed ‘immunity’.

    What do they know that we don’t? Are young survivors ‘permanent C-19 viral reservoirs’ where the virus hides/goes dormant, but when activated for whatever reason, could re-start being symptomatic and shedding again?

    In other words, maybe they know/suspect that once someone is infected, the virus is the permanent ‘gift that keeps on giving’, like a herpes infection?

    Let’s hope not!

    But this is possibly a concerning development that requires some type of explanation from the military……….

  191. @Anonymous

    Covid-19 originated in China. You cannot dispute this fact.

    No, covid19 originated at Fort Detrick, that is a fact. You can not dispute that fact. It was taken to Wuhan by the US contingent to the Military Games. Five of them were hospitalised in Wuhan. It was claimed that they had malaria allegedly. That is not true. They did not have malaria. Malaria does not require hospitalisation.

    The US team did not stay at the Games Village where all the other teams stayed, they stayed at a hotel two or three hundred metres from the wet markets. Clearly that was so that they could spread the virus to the wet markets.

    The US government lies about everything. Lied about babies thrown out of incubators. Lied about shooting down Iran Air 655. Lied about the attack on the MSF hospital in Afghanistan. Lied about Syria using chemical weapons. US government lies about everything. Sometimes they lie by omission. For instance tub o lard Pence said “We lied, we cheated, we stole. ” Yeah they did, but he left out the big three. They abducted, they tortured, they murdered.

  192. Usura says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-cdc-exclusiv/exclusive-u-s-axed-cdc-expert-job-in-china-months-before-virus-outbreak-idUSKBN21910S

    https://khn.org/morning-breakout/trump-administration-eliminated-cdc-position-intended-to-detect-disease-outbreaks-in-china-several-months-ago/

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/axed-cdc-expert-job-china-months-outbreak-reuters-200323012037595.html

    https://qz.com/1823253/here-are-the-disease-fighting-jobs-trump-did-and-didnt-nix/

    I remembered hearing about the dismissal of Linda Quick, but at the time thought it was probably a pawn being re-positioned in the ongoing trade dispute, which incidentally was how it was portrayed in some of the American press. Al-Jazeera’s treatment is especially interesting. The Reuters story seems to have been the first, and was denounced by president Trump. There have been several other health officials removed from China recently as well, as unnamed sources from these stories report. Is the intent of these sources to imply that any insinuation of a connection between the outbreak and Quick’s removal is just confirmation bias, as we’re removing health officials pretty frequently from there anyway? Quick still works for CDC and has not been permitted to comment on the circumstances around the de-funding of her position.

  193. Parfois1 says:
    @Tor597

    Project G-2101: Pentagon biolab discovered MERS and SARS-like coronaviruses in bats.

    Thank you for the link, a very valuable addition to our database on murky US activities and the first investigation into the US biological research labs in Asia I have come across. This kind of investigations give much credence to reports about biological warfare research being done offshore (not only at Fort Detrick) and raises questions why the US does it although, as the first guess to come to mind the purpose might be to circumvent the alleged moratorium on such research in the US itself, that is, beyond the prying eyes of a possible internal audit and potential publicity.

    There are many additional questions concerning the huge amounts of funds spent on that type of research projects and the many grants allocated to universities and foreign institutions – even in China (!) – and how little is known and revealed about their results, which suggests the question: if they are indeed above board and to “reduce threats”, why so much secrecy? Why only the Exceptional US carries on such projects?

    Apparently, there are many US agencies doing it, not only the Pentagon, CIA and CDC. Even the USAID is involved in that work overseas!

    • Agree: Tor597
  194. utu says:
    @Iris

    Thanks for your effort trying to explain it to me, but unfortunately the reference virus still seems to me almost arbitrary so the back linear extrapolation to H=0 does not appear to be significant.

    • Replies: @Iris
  195. thetruth says:

    multiple French army athletes who attended Wu Han Military World Game got Covid-19 after returning to France late Oct. 2019, here is a screen shot in French. French gov. asked them stop talking to the media, and trying to cover up about this. Athletes from other EU countries, such as Sweden, Italy, and Luxembourg, who went to Wuhan military game, also got affected with Covid-19 like virus!

  196. @James N. Kennett

    The Chinese Government, which has published its Patient Zero data* has regularly asked the US Government to share theirs. Not only that, but America’s membership in the WHO obliges it to do so.

    But the US has not responded, which is tacit refusal. Here is one request, #6 of China’s ten questions:

    1. Why doesn’t the U.S. government provide comprehensive protection for medical workers? Why were those reporting facts fired?
    Medical workers are explicitly requested not to wear masks at hospitals across the U.S., and according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), nurses can only wear masks when they are giving nebulizer therapy, performing an intubation on a COVID-19 patient, or putting a patient on a ventilator.
    Hundreds of doctors, nurses and relevant staff said they had been requested to work without sufficient protection, while some nurses who stood up for themselves, requesting masks while working, were even fired or asked to resign. A total of 43,000 medical workers were dismissed in the first month after COVID-19 hit the U.S., and the number is rising.

    2. There are over 20,000 deaths from the seasonal flu in America starting last September, how many of those cases were the novel coronavirus undetected?
    According to the latest estimation by the CDC, the seasonal flu has infected over 30 million U.S. citizens, causing more than 20,000 deaths. Head of the CDC Robert Redfield recently admitted that parts of COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. have been diagnosed as flu-related. Is the U.S. trying to cover up the real pandemic situation by labeling it as the seasonal flu?

    3. Why did Washington suddenly shut down its bioweapons lab in Fort Detrick, Maryland last July?
    The lab is the largest bioweapons research base of the U.S. military, and a series of pneumonia cases and suspected cases emerged on the heels of its closure, with H1N1 spreading at almost the same time. Two months after the global pandemic exercise Event 201 was carried out by multiple American organizations in October 2019, the first case of COVID-19 was spotted in Wuhan. The pandemic started spreading globally in February this year. Are these matters interrelated?

    4. Some senators offloaded shares while playing down the threats of the disease. Why aren’t they being held accountable?
    Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr received coronavirus briefings on a regular basis. He said to the public in early February that COVID-19 was controllable, but at the same time sold off his stocks. Many senators were reported to have done the same. Were they hiding the truth in order to participate in insider trading?

    5. Why did the U.S. downplay the pandemic when it knew the disease would develop into one?
    President Donald Trump said on March 17 that he felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic, yet he contradicted himself by saying absurd things, like anti-malaria drugs can be used to treat coronavirus patients and the pandemic will disappear like a miracle. However, the fact is there are over 1 million infections and 60,000 deaths, tens of millions have lost their jobs. Since the U.S. claims to have predicted these results, why didn’t it prepare for the situation earlier?

    6. When did the earliest COVID-19 infection happen in the U.S.? Why doesn’t Washington get experts to trace it?
    According to latest statistics, the first COVID-19 death in the U.S. dates back to Feb. 6, three weeks earlier than the previous figure. The female patient from Santa Clara, California had no known travel history, considered to have contracted the virus locally. The autopsy was done on the second day of her death, but why did the CDC release the results to the public two months later? Is it hiding something? Does this suggest that the massive community transmission started much earlier?

    7. What secret research is being carried out at the biolabs established by the U.S. in former Soviet states?
    The U.S. has kept its mouth shut about the functions, uses and safety of the biolabs it has established in former Soviet states, which brings deep concerns for local people and surrounding countries. What are these labs doing?

    8. Why was Brett Crozier relieved of his command after saving the lives of thousands of soldiers on board?
    Crozier’s letter resulted in having 2,700 sailors on the Roosevelt carrier removed from deck and quarantined, but he was later relieved of command because of his so-called lack of professionalism. Why did he have to reveal the crisis through media?

    9. Will the U.S. disclose its pandemic control timeline to the world?
    The situation in the U.S. keeps exacerbating, forcing the country to shift the blame to China and threaten the WHO to cover its shortcomings. The Lancet recently gave a detailed timeline of the pandemic’s development, stressing that the U.S. had acquired the disease’s information from the WHO at the first opportunity. Will the U.S. make a timeline of its own?

    10. What effective measures have the U.S. adopted in the last two months other than the restrictions on travel with China?
    According to American media, even though the U.S. National Security Council gave warning to the risk of local spread of COVID-19 as early as late January, suggesting home quarantine and lockdown of cities, such measures were not taken by the White House until mid-March. What measures have the U.S. taken from Jan. 31 to March 13, apart from the travel ban on China?

    *In CCDC Weekly (Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention) Chinese epidemiologists published an article stating that the first cluster of patients with “pneumonia of an unknown cause” occurred beginning 21 December 2019. Virus more prevalent in older adults. A Novel Coronavirus Genome Identified in a Cluster of Pneumonia Cases — Wuhan, China 2019−2020“. China CDC Weekly. 2 (4): 61–62. Archived from the original on 7 February 2020. Retrieved 8 February 2020 via weekly.chinacdc.cn.

  197. Erebus says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    I have no idea what you imagine Anders Tegnell’s relevance to be to my statement. Seeing/connecting dots where there are none again?

    The Chinese bureaucracy (from hospital admins to Wuhan’s & Hubei’s public health authorities) got caught napping in December, or Wuhan wouldn’t have happened – at least not on a scale requiring full national lockdown.

    … could you explain concretely what China did not handle well in December?

    I did. Please see the conversation with d dan in the thread below if you’re actually interested. As you were quite active on that thread, it may ring some bells.

    https://www.unz.com/article/who-or-what-started-the-wuhan-coronavirus-epidemic/

    Nuance, Godfree, nuance. Your crusade would be much enhanced if you internalized the meaning of that word.

  198. @schnellandine

    Dr Judy Mikovitts [quote] “It is beyond comprehension that a society can be fooled that the types of propaganda continue to where they’re just driving us to hate each other.”

    Either this woman is a terrific liar – or she’s been genuinely aggrieved and is greatly concerned for wellbeing of humanity – and that’s all of us!

    PlanDemic, a film https://plandemicmovie.com/

    Satisfy your own conscience.

  199. Iris says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Not sure whether this was already posted.

    1) It is reported in the French press that military athlete Elodie Clouvel let slip during a TV interview that she and her boyfriend fell ill with Covid-19 while participating in the Wuhan military games.

    ” I think that with Valentin ( Belaud, her companion, pentathlete too) we already had the coronavirus, the Covid-19, I mean” she said at the time. “We just weren’t talking about it yet”

    The 31-year-old added: “We were in Wuhan for the World Military Games at the end of October. And, in fact, it turns out that afterwards all got sick. Valentin missed three days of training. I was sick too. […] I had stuff I hadn’t had before. We didn’t worry more than that because we weren’t talking about it yet. »

    Her conclusion is unequivocal: “There are many athletes at the World Military Games who have been very ill. We had contact with the military doctor recently who said: “I think you got it because there are a lot of people in that delegation who have been sick” . »

    http://www.leparisien.fr/international/covid-19-des-athletes-francais-contamines-a-wuhan-en-octobre-05-05-2020-8311221.php

    2) French Channel BFM TV reports a similar anonymous testimony by another French military who participated in the Wuhan games and fell badly ill with Covid symptoms, as did many colleagues in his delegation.

    https://rmcsport.bfmtv.com/jo/coronavirus-des-sportifs-francais-s-interrogent-apres-une-competition-a-wuhan-en-octobre-1908001.html

    The French military authority has indicated that no testing has, or will be conducted on the athletes. It has instructed the athletes no to comment on the subject.

    • Replies: @450.org
    , @Parfois1
  200. Malla says:

    Will the United States of America allow the People’s Republic of China to investigate Fort Detrick?

    • LOL: schnellandine
    • Replies: @derer
  201. Jiminy says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    A post-mortem wouldn’t really need to be done if the patient had xrays taken. The AI programs are something like 98% accurate in diagnosing covid19, if the lungs were affected. I saw an article where the Indian programmer was aiming for 99% accuracy during the analysis of the X-ray. His thoughts were that it could be used in the virus testing procedure, instead of swabbing.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  202. @Saggy

    Still, I’d like to see the results of antibody tests for the US team.

    I predict that no antibody test results on the team will be forthcoming. Apparently five members were hospitalised in Wuhan and it was claimed(don’t know by whom) that they had Malaria. I think that the probability that they had Malaria is next to zero. They were staying in a modern hotel. Malaria is not endemic in Wuhan. How on earth could they have contracted Malaria?

    I predict that the hospitalised US team members refused blood tests. If true that’s a smoking gun.

  203. Erebus says:
    @Adrian E.

    I’ve voiced the notion that the participants and their support staff represent a significant transmission vector, whether inbound or outbound, or both and of course amongst the participants during the competition.

    IOW, I think you’re right. There’s many puzzling questions that could be explained if the participants’ were tested, their local activities and their inbound and outbound travels mapped.

  204. Tor597 says:
    @Anon

    These are important connections I didn’t previously know about. Thanks for connecting the dots.

    If you links that would be great.

  205. Iris says:
    @utu

    I think I see where you are coming from: because we are not geneticists, we expect to see a clear demarcation defining where the SARS-Cov-2’s genome precisely starts, on a scale of “continuous” genetic variations.

    However, you should be comfortable that this seemingly arbitrary reference does not impair the reasoning, for the following reason:

    The viruses’ genomes plotted on the graphic are all from real patients, and were sequenced precisely because the patients were treated for Covid-19 syndrome.

    So the virus used as reference (Strain A with 0 mutations) is not some theoretical ARN coming out of the blue: it is the real ARN of a real virus taken from a real COVID 19 patient. It is used as an arbitrary reference because no anterior ancestor to it has been found yet in the real life.

    This is the approach, and it seems reasonable: the author is looking for the first appearance of the virus’ variant capable of causing characteristic symptoms, as an indicator of when the epidemic started.

    • Replies: @utu
  206. Druid says:
    @Derer

    Not that smart, but persistently evil, and deaf to any criticism and conscience!

    • Agree: derer
  207. @AnonFromTN

    I think there’s a more innocent explanation.

    The US knew it was on the loose and, because their strain was insufficiently lethal to affect the annual ‘flu fatalities, did intended to ignore it.

    Herd immunity was their default policy because previous attempts (vaccines–under Ford and GW Bush) were embarrassing, expensive failures that damaged government credibility and killed or injured hundreds of healthy people. That was the consensus in the West.

    Though China’s response to Covid-19 was straight out of the WHO pandemic handbook (which is why the WHO praised China), the US never imagined that China would or could respond as it did.

    When China pulled its stunt they were literally stunned into inaction, knowing that they could neither follow suit and nor develop a vaccine, so they threw a tanty, as the Aussies say.

    All China needs to do to drive a stake through Mammon’s heart is develop an effective vaccine, give it to the world for free and grow its GDP 6% while the West’s contracts. The odds of that are better than 50-50:

    VW hails speed of car sales recovery in China
    Demand in most profitable market nears 2019 level but brand expects slower revival in Europe
    VW suffered just a 2% fall in Chinese sales in April, and expects business in the country to reach 2019 levels this month [Joe Miller in Frankfurt. Financial Times]
    Volkswagen says demand for its cars in China is almost as high as it was this time last year, underlining the speed of the recovery in the brand’s most profitable market. The German carmaker said it suffered just a 2 per cent fall in sales in April, despite the overall auto sector in the country declining by an estimated 7 per cent in the same period. It added that it expected business in China to reach the same monthly levels in May as it did in 2019.

    Coronavirus helps China pull ahead in the 5G race
    The world’s No. 2 economy to account for 60% of global 5G handsets in 2020

    LAULY LI and CHENG TING-FANG, Nikkei staff writers
    MAY 06, 2020 11:20 JST

    • Agree: acementhead
    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  208. @Godfree Roberts

    Iris, you are amazing. The official story is leaking like a sieve.

  209. This article does not add up to me.
    If everything in this article is correct and true, than conclusion is that covid 19 affair is a hoax,

  210. Anon[305] • Disclaimer says:
    @Paul C.

    Thanks for that.
    Good catch.

  211. Anon[305] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Well my first impulse was initially to scoff , because if you type ” Jimmy saville David” into Google autofill will put in icke for you.

    But then I actually went and checked the veracity of my claim( how do I actually know, what I think I “know”), and it seems that what I said was a mistruth( I did believe it to be true, I did not mean to deliberately mislead, but it was misleading all the same) , I took icke at his word that he had tried to tell people about savile for years( I am sure about the sex pistols part) and maybe icke actually did, but there seems to be no real proof other than ickes statement, so I stand corrected, I was wrong, thanks for checking my assumptions,I really do appreciate it.
    I will update my mental model accordingly and will try and fact check myself better in the future. My first impulse was to call you lazy, that you couldn’t check something other than corrupt Wikipedia , but you are a scholar and a gentleman.

    https://www.conspiracyarchive.com/2015/06/01/the-savile-affair-did-david-icke-really-blow-the-whistle-on-jimmy-savile/

    • Thanks: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  212. @Godfree Roberts

    Would you answer questions put in such an offensive hectoring style (apart from here on UR with some sort of response in kind)?)

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  213. skrik says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    mendaci neque quum vera dicit, creditor

  214. @AnonFromTN

    Indeed but there is even better proof that Godfree Roberts is on the wrong bus in his attempt to damn the CDC for not identifying Patient Zero. Just have a look at the list of hectoring questions from the Chinese that he quotes as their sixth attempt. It is almost as though the CCP trains its apparatchiks in the PR skills of that boorish ambassador to Australia.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    , @skrik
  215. Anon[301] • Disclaimer says:
    @Realist

    Ill admit I love Tucker , but couldn’t agree more on china/ covid laziness,with you.

    That being said, bring that Tucker is right in so many issues and speaks so much truth to power( antiwar, singer, Koch’s) is being horribly wrong automatically disqualifying?

    Or is it just people have particular blindspots on certain issues, and we are likely to have them also, but they are blindspots?

    I absolutely adore Ron Unz, for all the myriad issues and events he taught me something on.

    Of somebody asks me ” what should I read?” My two stock answers are Theodore dalrymples essays and ron unz’s American Pravda series.

    That being said on the issue of how much is the Corona virus a threat worth worrying about I’m on like a 1.5 and Ron is on a 9 or so. I think he has completely mistaken the noise for the signal, but I’ll readily ( not happily) concede he’s much smarter than I am and even better read( and I’ve read two books a week at a minimum every week since high school , which is 23 years now)
    So I realize it’s possible that he’s right, but I really can’t imagine how.

    Of there is anyone on mainstream media / tv that is anywhere close to Tucker on being anti war ,( not that he’s a peacenik) please let me know , because I’ve looked long and hard , and you have to go to RT or Jimmy dore or Scott Horton( r.i.p. Justin raimondo, miss you sir) for antiwar pov.

    Just my two cents, be well, try and keep an open mind,and have a good day.

    • Replies: @Realist
  216. @Realist

    Many otherwise rational Americans just lose it when it comes to China. Even a measured thinker like Pat Buchanan descends into hysteria when it comes to this topic. I think many American’s, raised on the idea that democracy is the only legitimate and viable form of government, are suffering from some serious cognitive dissonance from seeing a non-democracy out-compete them, and they react angrily and irrationally.

    • Agree: Ann Nonny Mouse
    • Replies: @Realist
  217. @Wizard of Oz

    PRESIDENT Donald Trump has announced he plans to demand that China pay a “very substantial figure” as compensation for the coronavirus outbreak. The president also said Monday that his administration are conducting “serious investigations” into the actions they can take against Beijing.

    Mike Pompeo demands ‘transparency in information’. US Mike Pompeo china coronavirus covid 19 wuhan. Times Now Digital. Updated Apr 24 …

    Mike Pompeo said China should “open up” about the cause of the virus

    Growing Number of U.S. Politicians Demand China Pay. Apr 21, 2020 – At the beginning of April, Senator Lindsey Graham (R., South Carolina), a close ally of President Donald Trump, joined the chorus demanding …

  218. @Godfree Roberts

    But that’s what even new Mongl or Manchu or Leninist occupants of the Celestial Throne would regard as barbarian😎

  219. Realist says:
    @Longfisher

    I don’t watch him anymore.

    Same here…I have better things to do than watch a Deep State minion propagate propaganda.
    The fact is the news media in this country is rife with propaganda and hypocrisy.
    This country is in deep shit…neither the media or the government can be trusted.

  220. Realist says:
    @The_seventh_shape

    Even a measured thinker like Pat Buchanan descends into hysteria when it comes to this topic.

    Never forget Buchanan worked for one of the most duplicitous Presidents this country has ever had.
    Watergate was a minor offense…Nixon promoted and signed numerous bills with extreme deleterious, long lasting effect on this country.

    I do agree with your points.

  221. @Jiminy

    Like this? These are from American ‘vaping’ victims and diagnosticians say they’re 99% sure to be Covid-19. But the US refuses to discuss the matter.

    • Replies: @Jiminy
  222. Realist says:
    @Anon

    That being said, bring that Tucker is right in so many issues and speaks so much truth to power( antiwar, singer, Koch’s) is being horribly wrong automatically disqualifying?

    Yes, I think it is. I believe the two party system is just two sides to the same Deep State coin.

    The Deep State doesn’t care about the unimportant internecine squabbles of the ‘two parties’ as long as their important issues are maintained. As a matter of fact it strengthens the false perception that there is a choice when voting.

    Or is it just people have particular blindspots on certain issues, and we are likely to have them also, but they are blindspots?

    I don’t think that is what is happening here. I think it is quite possible that a charade is being played on the American public…a game to obfuscate the true intent and very existence of the Deep State.
    I believe Carlson is a willing participant in this endeavor. Carlson has spoken truth to power to gain credibility with the American people. How does that cost the Deep State anything…it’s just talk…nothing has changed for the better?

    Of there is anyone on mainstream media / tv that is anywhere close to Tucker on being anti war ,( not that he’s a peacenik) please let me know , because I’ve looked long and hard , and you have to go to RT or Jimmy dore or Scott Horton( r.i.p. Justin raimondo, miss you sir) for antiwar pov.

    I believe it is best to not watch mainstream media…to me it is impossible to believe anything that is said.

  223. 450.org says:

    I think many American’s, raised on the idea that democracy is the only legitimate and viable form of government, are suffering from some serious cognitive dissonance from seeing a non-democracy out-compete them, and they react angrily and irrationally.

    The irony is, America is not a democracy. Not by any stretch of the imagination. It’s an oligarchy. Voting is a feckless gesture at this point. It’s purely symbolic but absurd considering the choices from which you have to choose. They’re all corporate stooges in one form or another. Only the extractive elite are represented. The American government, if you can even call it a government at this point, is by and for them, not the unwashed.

    That aside, the weakness of democracy is that it can be easily gamed by a collaborative group that seeks to use democracy to get into power and then subverts it from within. This has happened many times throughout history. Hitler and the Nazis did it. The Muslim Brotherhood did it in Egypt until the military took back the reigns of power and reinstated Egypt’s long-standing military dictatorship.

    The fact of the matter is, Americans are, by and large, a bunch of greedy entitled braindead morons but it’s worse than that, because on top of them being that, they are arrogant ignoramuses. That arrogance is double indemnity precisely because Americans have no business being arrogant for they have nothing to be proud about except their big little lies.

    • Agree: acementhead
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  224. @Wizard of Oz

    The questions are important, relevant, timely and polite.

    They are direct and don’t beat around the bush, but that is understandable given the urgency of the subject.

    I see nothing like hectoring. Perhaps you feel that China is being impertinent to question the Exceptional Nation?

    • Replies: @anonymous
  225. @Godfree Roberts

    Jeez. That was a savage ripping of his anus.

  226. 450.org says:
    @Iris

    The problem I have with this is that it can serve as a form of containment (of the narrative) because it implies ground zero for this viral pandemic was Wuhan and we now know that is not definitive by any means and more than likely is abjectly false. Increasingly it appears the virus was circulating in other parts of the world prior to the Wuhan outbreak.

    My wife and I have gone to work on her 93-year-old mother. We are going to capture her heart and mind from Trump and the conservative retards who have brainwashed her over the past decade. She lives with my wife’s sister and her husband who are, or were, huge Fox News watching freaks and huge Trump supporters. My wife’s mother last night indicated they no longer watch Fox News or any news. They have tuned out. I believe because the cognitive dissonance is too great.

    As a result, my wife’s mother feels she is uninformed and in-the-dark about what’s going on. She asked my wife if my wife believed a country was responsible for introducing this virus into the general population. My wife indicated that she didn’t think it was a country because every country has been affected to some extent, some more than others, but that she believed it was introduced by global billionaires with too much money and too much power and influence. Billionaires who ride out the storm in their bunkers in far away places.

    My wife’s mother inquired as to why these global billionaires would do this and my wife told her because they feel there are too many useless eaters on the planet. Too many poor people they have made poor. That they hate and loathe poor people and wish and hope for their death. My wife’s mother said, “oh, I see, so they want to cut the apron strings so to speak.” My wife said, “exactly.” My wife’s mother then said, “I believe they should be executed for doing something so heinous.” My wife, and I, agree. Storm the bunkers, root them out of their fancy spider hole digs, and crucify them all along Pennsylvania Avenue in front of the White House for all the world to see as an example of what you get when you play the Messiah.

  227. @Alden

    I thought your hatred for the Chinese was because they were eating up your family’s share of the real estate money pie in California. But it is now confirmed you are just another hysterical batshit crazy.

    • Replies: @Alden
  228. @Godfree Roberts

    Why do you always defend? You can also attack woo you know?

  229. skrik says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    almost as though the CCP trains its apparatchiks in the PR skills of that boorish ambassador to Australia

    Kindly see my #38 above, paying particular attention to *warlike!* [And between ‘Wuhan started,’ insert ‘most probably’]. Some unkind agents allege that SARS-CoV-2 sprang out of some Wuhan bat soup, but allow me to point out that you live immersed in Morrison bat-shit crazy soup so your perceptions may well be warped. IF SARS-CoV-2 is in fact US bio-warfare directed against China [and now blowing back onto most of the world including the US] THEN the CCP-derived/inspired communications seem to be *extremely restrained*. Oh! Only as always IMHO.

  230. @AnonFromTN

    I take no sides in this matter. Frankly I could care less about the “whodunnit”, all I care about is the fact that it has been done, and what will be the consequences of this “plandemic” I know all forms of government eventually end up with the loss of rights and freedom for the so called “citizens”. Governments(Capitalist, Communist, Fascist) are a group of people who bestow upon themselves the right to rob ordinary people of their property and freedoms. It is a virus itself, the lowest form of parasite to ever exist.

    That being said, If you cannot see this is a global run psyop being perpetrated by the international (((banksters))) and their cohorts(WHO, CDC, Gates Foundation, etc.)than there is no hope for you. Every major power, and all but a tiny few minor powers are playing the Covid-19 game. That includes the USA, Russia, China, Europe, and the Middle East(Yes, Iran too).

    They are setting us up for the collapse of the petrodollar and the one world digital currency. Many things are going to come along with this collapse; forced vaccinations; police state style lock downs; food shortages, all the way up to starvation by many.

    So everyone here continue to play “theydunnit”, and espouse the virtues of the wonderful CCP and the Russian Federation, while you sit back and watch “them” take from you the few freedoms you had left in this at least pretend Democracy.

    Remember these, perhaps your last days of faux freedom. It will not be long before you will be begging for the America that existed pre March 2020.
    I will leave you with the words of Frank Zappa for your contemplation:
    The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.

  231. SteveK9 says:
    @Jake

    Bill Gates does more than love WHO, he is the second largest funder of the Organization after the US government, and he is not far behind. $324 million in 2017. WHO has become a front for Gates and Pharma companies, pushing vaccines.

  232. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    He’s genuinely worked up by this topic, apparently, having lost his customary cool upthread. But bear in mind that this “Wizard of Oz” character often draws people in with questions and requests that are seldom resolved to his/her/their satisfaction, or with cryptic insinuations that distract discussion. I think he’s returning to form.

    Also recall, especially in any extended discussion, that “Wizard of Oz” also fuzzes up threads by pretending to be more than one commenter, the technique known as “sock puppetry.” See under Mr. Derbyshire’s February 15, 2019, article comment ## 28, 42, 43, 44, 68, 122, where he/she/they got sloppy also posting as “Anon[436].”

    Among this website’s oddest, sophisticatedly trollish commenters. But you’ve helped expose him as a sincere Chinadidit.

    • Thanks: Godfree Roberts
  233. SteveK9 says:
    @bunsnroses

    I’ve wondered about that as well. Why would the rest of China get off so easily. For that matter, why is LA or Chicago virtually free of the virus compared to NYC. Are there different strains in these locations, or is is it all down to very specific characteristics of these cities. The lack of spread in China is really curious though. They are also reporting NO cases now.

  234. Parfois1 says:
    @Iris

    Delivering the explosive goods again! That one is a veritable petard to crack open the heads of the US whoreshippers here.

    I said it before and shall say it again: the US government has in its power the means to prove its innocence when there is a solid body of circumstantial evidence pointing to its guilt about the origin and mayhem caused by the CV-19 virus. In such cases, a court of law is entitled to draw and adverse inference if the accused does not bring evidence likely to give a rational explanation to support its case.

    If a man is caught with a smoking gun in his hand next to a dead body with a hole in its head and does not explain that, having heard a shot, came to the scene and picked the gun from the dead person’s hand for safety reasons before leaning over and try to help the deceased, then, if he is mentally capable to understand the charge and consequences, he will be facing the verdict of murder.

    The US is in the same position. All they had to do to stop speculation and finger pointing at the US as the culprit is to let an independent international commission examine the causes of death of the victims of the flu in the US during the relevant period and the numerous cases of “vaping” and other people who have reported the symptoms associated with the CV-19 infection, including the athletes who attended the military games at Wuhan. (Remember the infection outbreak at the hotel where the US athletes stayed at).

    Not a very onerous burden to set the record straight as demanding a full inspection of the numerous US biowarfare labs all over the world – which should be done anyway, as was done to Iraq under outrageous false claims of having weapons of mass destruction.

    Until the US government comes clean about its biowarfare activities, the world is entitled to, not only suspect of foul play but also to come to the conclusion that it has a lot to hide because it is guilty of gross criminality against humanity and the US ruling elite deserve the same fate as the Nazi elite at Nuremberg. More so actually when one remembers that the US was the only power to deploy nerve gas munitions to the war theatre in Europe during WWII. Hitler was more humane and forbade his generals the use of such weapons.

  235. SteveK9 says:
    @Anon

    The antibiotic was to treat secondary bacterial infections. Commonly a viral respiratory infection leads to pneumonia, which actually kills the patient.

  236. utu says:
    @Iris

    We are going in circles. H values depend on the reference virus V_ref. Two different V_ref1 and V_ref2 will produce different estimates for the time when H=0. The question is why should I believe the result with the V_ref used in this study. Perhaps we should ask the author. I hope he knows something that would show that my simple objection is invalid.

    • Replies: @Iris
  237. @Anon

    The Sex Pistols formed in 1975 so it couldn’t have been in 1972 as you mentioned in the earlier comment. Johnny Rotten claimed that he knew Saville was a pedo and that he had accused the BBC of being rife with pedophiles and not just Jimmy. Icke does his own research as well as collating information uncovered by other so I don’t think it matters much who first exposed Saville for what he was.

    I don’t know if Icke believes his own theory about aliens. I think he’s just trying to emphasise that they’re inhuman depraved monsters, not part of general humanity and should be treated as alien intruders who control our planet and exploit our race. I guess it may discourage some from treating him seriously, and I myself don’t like this talk of extraterrestrials and shape shifters, but I wouldn’t be particularly upset if they were wiped out from the face of the earth. What difference does it make if they’re aliens or not, they’re certainly inhuman, and what matters is that we know who exactly they are by name and location – the rest, well, make up your own minds what to do about them?

  238. @450.org

    I won’t be so rude to Americans as to click on just a simple Agree but you are right I think to deny America its claim to be a democracy despite there being elements of it locally and in the need to attract the votes of people employed by businesses within a Congressman’s electorate.

    I would say “plutocracy rather than oligarchy BTW.

    Australia’s “democracy “, though its federatiin was modelled on America but with the crucial difference of Westminster Parliaments, probably gives more satisfaction because of its system(s) of voting but mostly because China has made Australia easily prosperous so most discontents can be bought off whereas Amrerica squanders trillions on wars and imports cheap labour and incarcerates huge numbers of citizens.

  239. @Godfree Roberts

    When I see that graph, I really start to doubt all those reports of Covid-19 deaths. Somebody is lying. They’re probably all lying, from USA to China and all in between. Are we really to believe that both USA and PR China are correctly reporting these deaths and then try to draw some conclusions based on that?

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  240. It’s time to wake up and smell the “plandemic”.
    https://www.bitchute.com/video/IB3ijQuLkkUr/

  241. @Commentator Mike

    Different methods of combating the virus is why you are seeing the huge discrepancy.

    Imagine USA doing massive testing, contact tracing, quarantine of positive patients starting February? That is the same time as when the Asian countries started taking the virus seriously. I reckon the results would be better than the Asian countries.

    The results we are seeing from the USA n EU are because the respective govts were too busy shitting on China, and thinking the virus would magically disappeared by April.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  242. Iris says:
    @utu

    The question is why should I believe the result with the V_ref used in this study.

    – The author Peter Forster, who is a PhD geneticist, selected the V_ref as being the virus sub-strain genetically closest from the Bat Outgroup genome.

    – His director of Research, Pr Colin Renfrew, a leading scientist in archeogenetics and member of the UK Academy of Science endorsed Forster’s approach.

    – The study has been reviewed by PhD and Genetics Professor Toomas Kivisild (Leuven University).

    – The study has been issued to the worldwide scientific community, with a lot of publicity, for 1,5 months without any criticism arising.

    This scientific consensus is as good as it gets. The author is not challenged by his peers, so he must have been correct in arbitrarily selecting which, out of the genomes, was the ancestor.

    • Replies: @skrik
  243. skrik says:
    @Iris

    This scientific consensus is as good as it gets

    Would seem so, and I admire your work in here. Backing up Peter Forster, kindly see my #38 above, noting this: … here is a ‘live’ model [from across the pond, new = currently encompassing 2334 isolates from GISAID]. One may choose a country in the ‘Collection Site’ box to see what strains have infected where, say. enjoy

    • Thanks: Iris
  244. Qship says:
    @Harold Smith

    Springfield, Virginia is about 55 miles from Fort Detrick.

    In the story below, it states that “the virus that causes the common cold” was isolated from the nursing home residents in Springfield. I wonder if the tests were picking up SARS Co-V2 as a generic coronavirus? They don’t specify in the article if it was a coronavirus, or something else like a rhinovirus or parainfluenza.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2019/08/02/virginia-reports-higher-than-usual-number-respiratory-illnesses/%3foutputType=amp

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  245. Realist says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Living standard auto lowers by 50% or more.

    Not at all…only for purchases of foreign goods.

    Buy gold as a hedge.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  246. Jiminy says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Imagine telling Marie Curie that an electrical machine can diagnose ailments in real time by observing an X-ray of the patient. Her reply , “ it must be of great benefit to the people.” What a laugh. I keep thinking how can 330 million people allow themselves to be hoodwinked by the few. You’ve been bashing your head up against a wall with story after story- people can see what’s been floating around in the US since at least Jan.19 and yet they still deny it. No matter how many xrays are diagnosed as positive, unless that information can reach the greater audience then its just like yelling into the wind. And with so much of the internet and media controlled by the government, the chances of a balanced release of information is almost nonexistent. There really needs to be a mass movement of people across the country to reclaim their government. If not then I think we can expect another two decades of what the world has just been through. It’s not a pretty thought. Haven’t the American people had enough of it?

  247. @HallParvey

    Miss Marple doesn’t travel far, Hercule Poirot does. He’s our man.

  248. @Godfree Roberts

    6. When did the earliest COVID-19 infection happen in the U.S.? Why doesn’t Washington get experts to trace it?

    According to latest statistics, the first COVID-19 death in the U.S. dates back to Feb. 6, three weeks earlier than the previous figure. The female patient from Santa Clara, California had no known travel history, considered to have contracted the virus locally. The autopsy was done on the second day of her death, but why did the CDC release the results to the public two months later? Is it hiding something? Does this suggest that the massive community transmission started much earlier?

    Thank you. The search term “ten questions” is helpful in locating reports from Chinese sources, for example http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/2020-05/01/content_9805094.htm

    These questions do not seem to be part of the formal discourse between the Chinese and American governments, but a response in kind to Donald Trump’s “trash talk” blaming China and the WHO. It is a real shame that Trump started a “blame game” at a time when we should be cooperating to control the pandemic. There will be plenty of time later to hold individuals, laboratories, or even governments to account.

    The answer to Question 6 would be of no value to the responsible authorities in China, who know that there was a documented case in the USA as early as January 15th.

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2001191 (March 5th 2020)

    First Case of 2019 Novel Coronavirus in the United States

    On January 19, 2020, a 35-year-old man presented to an urgent care clinic in Snohomish County, Washington, with a 4-day history of cough and subjective fever. On checking into the clinic, the patient put on a mask in the waiting room. After waiting approximately 20 minutes, he was taken into an examination room and underwent evaluation by a provider. He disclosed that he had returned to Washington State on January 15 after traveling to visit family in Wuhan, China.

    The stool and both respiratory specimens later tested positive by rRT-PCR for 2019-nCoV, whereas the serum remained negative.

    Question 6 is carefully worded to refer to “deaths” and not “cases”, so it can ignore this evidence. The question is not asked in good faith, but as part of the foolish rhetorical game that is taking place between Trump and the CCP.

    Why repeat the foolish talk of one side or the other? It would be far more useful to search the available evidence and look for clues that other researchers have missed.

    • Replies: @d dan
  249. @Harold Smith

    Sorry, I can’t find the links I wanted.
    About a month ago, I read that a Taiwanese virologist and pharmacologist claimed he had written to the US in January, after noting that the symptoms being reported in Wuhan were virtually identical to the symptoms being reported for the vaping “victims”.
    ______________________________________________________________________
    A few days ago, I posted a link to a Spanish study correlating the density of Covid 19 and 5G. The study clearly stated it was a correlation that needed to be investigated, and in no way, shape or form declare that 5G caused the virus. I can no longer find that link, but there appears to be dozens of stories refuting the study as false claiming that it has been proven 5G does not cause the virus.

    What no one seems to be prepared to admit, is that 5G is microwaves, and microwaves can be harmful. Your microwave oven changes the structure of the food you put in it. It is not unreasonable to think that the Covid virus, which many leading scientists say, and statistics show is pretty much like any other flu virus for fatality, may be kick started into something more lethal with 5G.

  250. KA says:
    @utu

    Why did China peak much earlier in comparison to France or Italy or Sweden despite the finding of the viruses in Nov and Dec ?

    Your question is relevant but that scenario has already played out in Europe . We need to know how or why

    • Replies: @utu
  251. @utu

    First, we really don’t know how it spreads easily. There have been competing arguments about whether it is atomized or droplets, whether on surfaces and how long it survives on surfaces.
    Second, you are conflating infectious with deadly. As has been shown by many countries, the higher the testing rate, the higher the number of infections. However, irrespective of country, the deaths caused by the virus are in line with a normal “bad” flu season. The numbers are being inflated by including, for example, a terminally ill patient testing positive for the virus. A now deleted Youtube video had a doctor from St. Louis saying we should be happy for the virus, because people have stopped having heart attacks. It must be due to the virus.
    I have been following this site for about a month https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/
    It is becoming clearer that this “pandemic” is a cover for something much more sinister.

    • Replies: @utu
  252. d dan says:
    @James N. Kennett

    “The answer to Question 6 would be of no value to the responsible authorities in China, who know that there was a documented case in the USA as early as January 15th.”

    Yes, the Washington case is “allowed” to be the first “documented” case because that man happened to visited Wuhan. But elsewhere:

    1. In California the earliest death is confirmed to be in Feb 6 for a person who had no recent travel history or contact with persons who traveled. That means the person must got it locally in mid-January. So Covid-19 is likely quite widespread in California by then – because it is unlikely that the first person who get infected was also the first person to die in California.

    2. In Florida, state health officials have documented at least 170 COVID-19 patients reporting symptoms between Dec. 31, 2019, and Feb. 29.

    “At least 26 people who contracted COVID-19 started showing symptoms in late December or January — and at least eight of them both had not traveled and did not have contact with another person infected by the virus. “

    source: https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2020/05/05/coranavirus-was-in-florida-before-we-knew-it/

    3. We can go on and on for other states…

    Therefore, looking for patient 0 in US is a very valid and important clue to tracing the source of Covid-19, regardless of whether the question comes from China or not.

  253. UTU-2 says:

    If you go back to “I want a nation of workers, not a nation of thinkers” John “Robber Baron” Rockefeller who was hugely influential in the fields of medicine, education oil and heaps more you have found the cause of the dumbing down of the US population. Icke is a clever guy and has taken a leaf out of old Nostradamus book of tricks. Nosti would have been burnt at the stake for what he said if he had been clear. So alluding is the name of the game and as long as he is not direct then nothing will happen to him.

  254. @Realist

    How many Americans do you think have enough extra income to buy gold to hedge against a future drop in dollar value?

  255. @Paul C.

    I saw a Dick Allgire youtube video tracing that bill. There was a prompt correction to the video showing that the bill did not start as it finished. I morphed quickly after the “pandemic” started.

  256. derer says:
    @Malla

    The hell would freeze sooner.

  257. derer says:
    @Realist

    “news media that does not investigate issues”

    The American dishonest media do not investigate anymore they just disseminate propaganda of their political party.

  258. utu says:
    @KA

    “Why did China peak much earlier in comparison to France or Italy or Sweden despite the finding of the viruses in Nov and Dec ?” – My guess is that Nov and Dec patients are false positives or that the epidemic did not evolve and died out for some reasons.

    • Replies: @KA
  259. utu says:
    @Curmudgeon

    “Second, you are conflating infectious with deadly.” – No, I do not.

    “…the deaths caused by the virus are in line with a normal “bad” flu season.” – No, IFR is much higher. See:

    https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/why-sweden-succeeded-while-others-failed/#comment-3874006

    “It is becoming clearer that this “pandemic” is a cover for something much more sinister.” – I am not certain if paranoia enhances clarity.

  260. derer says:
    @HallParvey

    Inspector Clouseau would be much better then the American media.

  261. Anon[544] • Disclaimer says:
    @Harold Smith

    Officials in Fairfax County, Virginia, are still trying to pinpoint the cause of a deadly respiratory illness outbreak at a Springfield assisted living facility, and another outbreak is now being investigated at a Burke facility.

    Three people are dead and dozens more have been afflicted with an upper respiratory illness at Greenspring Retirement Community in Springfield, the Fairfax County Health Department said.

    Another outbreak of respiratory illnesses at Heatherwood, an assisted-living facility in Burke, is also under investigation by the health department, but officials said Wednesday there is no evidence linking the two outbreaks.

    It wasn’t the only one. And the cause hasn’t been disclosed.

    Symptoms of the illness include respiratory problems from coughs to pneumonia.
    https://wtop.com/fairfax-county/2019/07/3-dead-dozens-including-employees-sick-as-respiratory-illness-spreads-through-springfield-assisted-living-facility/

  262. @Astuteobservor II

    Yes I understand that is the explanation. But China, with its huge population, didn’t know for a while what was going on but was able to contain it so well, as those deaths are truly insignificant. If this is true then I’d have to concede that China is the first world and we’re like the n****** in Africa: undisciplined, slow, slack, lazy, quarrelsome, chaotic, inefficient, without a manufacturing base or ability to produce the most essentials requirements to ensure the health of the nation – just a bunch of arrogant morons ruled by corrupt idiots and their stupid expert advisors. Hmm … we’re getting there but I didn’t think this soon.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    , @Alden
  263. vot tak says:

    Research keeps pushing the date further back in time when the coronavirus began infecting humans.

    COVID-19 May Have Started Spreading as Early as October 2019 – Study

    https://sputniknews.com/society/202005071079234407-covid-19-may-have-started-spreading-as-early-as-october-2019-study/

    “The study ( https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1567134820301829 ), which was published on May 5 in the journal Infection, Genetics and Evolution, was based on a study of samples from more than 7,500 people infected with the novel coronavirus. The researchers found almost 200 recurrent genetic mutations of the virus, which sheds light on how it is adapting inside the human body as it spreads.

    “Phylogenetic estimates support that the COVID-2 pandemic started sometime around October 6, 2019, to December 11, 2019, which corresponds to the time of the host jump into humans,” the report states.

    The researchers also found 198 sites within the coronavirus’s genome that have experienced “recurrent, independent mutations,” the South China Morning Post reported. Eighty percent of such mutations caused changes at the protein level, illuminating how the virus is changing in its human hosts. By analyzing the virus mutations, the researchers were able to estimate the time at which it began infecting humans. Official government data obtained by the South China Morning Post reveals that the first confirmed infection in China was reported on November 17.”

    • Replies: @Alden
  264. vot tak says:

    Notice that as the research on the coronavirus gets more info nailed down about how the virus is made up and when it began causing human infections, that israel’s trump colonials get more shrill and depraved in their false accusations against China? They behave exactly like criminals faced with the knowledge their alibis are being exposed as lies and the criminal investigation is tightening the net about them.

    That isn’t a coincidence.

  265. @Commentator Mike

    Don’t be so hard on ourselves. Majority of any country are stupid. Look at the amount of covid 19 hoaxers, should give you an idea of how many stupids there are. Hence why we need good leaders at the helm. But the problem with our country right now is the lack of good leaders. All leaders are corrupt, parasitic, but they should also do their job. Ours don’t do their job. Just fat, old, senile, incoherent, appears extremely stupid at times.

    There are epic retards who thinks the president of USA should listen to some retarded paid for shit sticks like carlson or cumo. Like what in the flaming hell fuck.

    Imagine president of USA taking charge, immediately telling Americans to prepare themselves, doing everything the asian countries did. Instead of tweeting it is just the flu. Thus seeding the stupid with the idea. Even though the president has since changed tactics to blaming China, the stupids are still yapping on n on it is just the flu.

    Even though the stupids are stupid, they don’t want to admit that they are stupid. That would take two brain cells and room for self improvement.

    • Agree: utu
  266. Herald says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    I would guess that the ability of the coronavirus to mutate rapidly is being deliberately underreported, rather than being underestimated. A rapidly mutating coronavirus might well make an effective vaccine for COVID-19 impractical. If so, what will the vaccine actually be supposed to do, apart from making mega-bucks for Gates and Big Pharma?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  267. vot tak says:

    ANOTHER person in contact with Trump gets Covid-19, getting CNN all excited again

    https://www.rt.com/usa/488063-trump-valet-positive-coronavirus/

    Amazing how people around trump get infected, but he is apparently “bullit proof”.

    Trump Reportedly Fears Wearing Mask in Public Would ‘Send the Wrong Message’

    https://sputniknews.com/us/202005071079234833-trump-reportedly-fears-wearing-mask-in-public-would-send-the-wrong-message/

    Trump is a self described germophobe. Yet he is not afraid of catching the coronavirus. Both him and pence seem to know they will not catch it. Since neither quisling is noted for bravery, there must be a reason they don’t fear being infected.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  268. Alden says:
    @vot tak

    So evil American CIA agents were flying around China like Batman sprinkling the magic virus a month before the Military games virus spreaders arrived in Wuhan in December.

    • Replies: @vot tak
  269. Alden says:
    @Commentator Mike

    China Plague 20 is just a normal flu season. As of today, 74,808 deaths attributed to China flu 20, less than last years and the year before that. Average age of China Plague deaths 79. Average of all American deaths 78.54.

    It’s a normal flu season. I know THE MEN OF UNZ want to extend this year’s flu season another 7 months and count all 2020 deaths as China flu 20.

    I always thought Stanford and it’s grads overrated. After reading this site since February, I’m convinced.

  270. @Qship

    “Springfield, Virginia is about 55 miles from Fort Detrick.”

    Whatever; I just glanced quickly at a map to get a ballpark idea.

    “In the story below, it states that “the virus that causes the common cold” was isolated from the nursing home residents in Springfield. I wonder if the tests were picking up SARS Co-V2 as a generic coronavirus? They don’t specify in the article if it was a coronavirus, or something else like a rhinovirus or parainfluenza.”

    Unfortunately the article is behind a pay wall so I can’t read it but from your brief description it sounds misleading. They’re implying it was a virus that causes colds? Somewhere I read that colds due to coronaviruses usually occur in the winter and early spring, and most adults don’t have a fever when they get a cold. But in this case the patients apparently had a fever and out of 83 reported cases three people died. Must’ve been some nasty cold.

  271. @vot tak

    Wow not even SARS-CoV-2 will go near that demoniac.

  272. utu says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    “Imagine president of USA taking charge, immediately telling Americans to prepare themselves, doing everything the asian countries did. “ – He and his people wasted a perfect opportunity to make him presidential, uniting people… It is not just him. If CDC officially makes statements that masks are ineffective what could you expect from others? Even those who took it more seriously like Cuomo made so may mistakes like subway, masks, tracing…

    It occurred to me that the flu hoaxers and anti lockdown activists are here to build an alibi for our government that they did not do what they should have done four or six weeks earlier, so nobody will be held responsible, nobody will calculate how many lives could have been saved if action was take earlier, if masks were made mandatory…. If it was just a flu why bother, right? And the they will claim that they the flu hoaxers saved us from fascism. The flu hoaxers in the best of libertarian tradition work for the PTB and the oligarchy.

  273. Iris says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    But the problem with our country right now is the lack of good leaders.

    One is labelled Anti-American for stating this truth; just look at the insults Godfree Roberts is showered with.

    But the American political class has become an asylum populated by criminally insane narcissists.
    They continuously fight over petty, mean, shameful quarrels, Birth Certificate, Russiagate, Impeachment that paralyse the country, instead of making any plans for its future.

    They continuously give a disgraceful and shameful spectacle, wasting a precious time in selfish personal struggles at the expense of the national interest.

    Opposite to American politicians, the Chinese leadership makes long-term plans sustained in continuity by successive and replaceable civil servants, and has transformed what was a third-world backwater into a shining beacon of development the entire non-Western world look up to in admiration.

    Talk of self-inflicted blindness.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
  274. Alden says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Reality check US 74,808 deaths attributed, attributed, not certain China flu deaths as of today. Less than last year’s and the year before that’s flu deaths. Average of the US dead, 79. Average age of death in the US 78.54.

    Whatever happened in China with this year’s flu season, America and the rest of the world used this year’s normal flu season to destroy the global economy. Even nurses are unemployed. Even hospitals and health systems are planning bankruptcy. Many have died because tests and surgery were put off indefinitely,

    Democrat dictatorship states like NY CA Ill MI and others plan to not re open till a vaccine is discovered and everyone vaccinated. Hate NY CA all you want, but they are the biggest economies in the country.

    I’ll accept that China is now and has been the most wonderfulest bestest country in the world for the last 6,000 years. I’ll accept that America is the most evil entity since the world began.

    But look at the facts. A normal flu season was turned into an economic disaster and increased Democrat’s dictatorial powers immensely. And the democrats powers of evil are directed at Whites, not the mud people.

    Trump had nothing to do with anything. Th bizarro exponent Covid Plague turned out to be a normal flu season. Democrats and that fraud Fauci used it as an excuse to shut down the economy and create a dictatorship.

    You MEN OF UNZ believe the fraud Fauci. He was the one who claimed in the early 1980s that AIDS was a heterosexual disease. Nothing to do with promiscuous sodomy. Nothing to do with the difference between a vaginal lining 28 cells thick and the rectal intestinal lining 1 cell thick with receptor cells behind the lining to snatch any germ or virus and inject it into the blood stream.

    I hope you’re all planning how to support yourselves when your company goes bankrupt. Welfare? It’s not for Whites. Mortgage relief? Not for Whites.

    TV news watchers reveal their age. No one under 60 watches it.

  275. vot tak says:
    @Alden

    The sayanim are getting rather desperate now. 😀

    • Replies: @Alden
  276. @Herald

    what will the vaccine actually be supposed to do, apart from making mega-bucks for Gates and Big Pharma?

    Same as “flu vaccine”. It does not protect against flu, as flu virus is also an RNA coronavirus and mutates very rapidly, but this does not prevent some corporations from making huge bucks on it. The populace is scared enough to pay for this “vaccine”, and then keep paying for its “improvements”. Win-win for big Pharma.

    • Replies: @Herald
  277. @Godfree Roberts

    “I think there’s a more innocent explanation.

    The US knew it was on the loose and, because their strain was insufficiently lethal to affect the annual ‘flu fatalities, did intended to ignore it.”

    I considered that possibility as well, but what I don’t understand is this: Once it started, why the coordinated effort to prevent the early, widespread use of hydroxychloroquine to treat high-risk patients so as to try to keep them out of the hospital? Instead they made a political football out of it and continued to stress “ventilators.” It almost seems like they wanted more casualties; like they were looking for pictures of bodies stacked in refrigerated trucks.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Godfree Roberts
  278. @Fred777

    Compare Taiwan to Fujian Province right across the Strait. Not much difference. But such is the nonsense of politics. No critical thinking. Taiwan obstructed receiving back Taiwan citizens who were on Mainland China… Are you one of those who believes Trump should have forced US citizens to stay in China?

  279. @SteveK9

    People who love to talk about China seem to fail to recognize almost all of Asia did better than the west. Look at South Korea’s numbers. Look at Singapore compared to NYC. Compare Tokyo to Los Angeles. Claiming China’s numbers are fake means all of Asia is fake too.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  280. Alden says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    The Asian invasion is what lifted us way out of the middle class. Actually, the landlord thing is just a side line. We owe it all to the Asian invasion. Every time a Chinese buys a 70 year old piece of crap and crowds 25 people into a 1,600 sq ft house and carport so they can pay the mortgage, all real estate values keep rising and rising and the rents go up and up.

    Our main business is construction. Not residential. Hotels, high rise office building like the Salesforce Tower, highest building west of the Mississippi one of our projects. Then there’s the amazon google Facebook etc etc Data Centers and the buildings that house all the coding coolies.

    The Chinese invasion has been very, very good to us. Even if some Supreme Court decides that no White man can every work again, we’ll be all right with the rentals. Of course the day will come when a Supreme Court decides no White can own property and all our property, will be confiscated. But until then, the Chinese invasion has benefited us immensely.

    Main thing I have against them is there are no more White man physicians in California. Are you a White man? Are you happy that White men are denied college admissions and jobs because they are White men? Are you happy that Chinese are given jobs simply because they are Chinese immigrants? Then you’re an anti White liberal anti White racist, the scum of the earth.

    We even bought a warehouse in South Bay because we were getting so much work down there covering a beautiful part of California with tech offices.

    BTW none of us get the $1,200 plus $500 for the kids whatever it is. No ones working from home. No one’s going to work. No one’s getting unemployment either. And they’re all happy with that

    Why? Because they usually only work about 8 or 9 months a year. Even with the most creative accounting, any work after 9 months just goes for taxes.

    My main peeve against China is the consumer crap like the $3,000 refrigerators that break down after 2 years. Plus no White man physicians engineers programmers. I went to college with the White men who invented Silicon Valley. A week after they got their master’s they just went over the hill to Mountain View. By early 1980s they had done their job for the capitalist pigs and were replaced by the code coolies.

    If you’re a White man father to White children and you’re happy that you and your sons can’t get jobs because you’re White, then you’re a disgusting race traitor.

    China flu 2019-20 is actually just the flu. As of today US 74,808 deaths attributed, just attributed not verified to this year’s normal flu season. Average age of US flu deaths, 79. Average age of death in America, 78.54.

    Despite all the hysteria on UNZ Trump is right. It’s just a normal flu season.

  281. Alden says:
    @Harold Smith

    The ventilators vs hydroxycholoroquine controversy was not a science or medical controversy at all. It was a Jew commie democrat liberal attack on Trump.

    Trump talked about hudroxychloroquine early on. Because Trump spoke about it as a cure, the Jew commie media, not the public health science medical people decided Trump was wrong and ventilators were good. I believe some democrat dictator governors even issued orders against using hydroxychloroquine because Trump spoke about Drs who had great success with it.

    And yes, the Jew commie liberal feminazi gay tranny pro unlimited immigration Democrats hoped for millions dying so they could blame it all on Trump and defeat him in November.

    When just a few died, the Jew commie liberal feminazi gay tranny pro unlimited immigration democrats just claimed bodies were rotting in the streets and millions would die.

    Similar to what I’ve read on UNZ the last 3 months,

    • Agree: acementhead
    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  282. KA says:
    @utu

    No . There has to be better explanation. There was no false positive. Virus did not evolve to less malignant then switch back to virulent form.

  283. Alden says:
    @vot tak

    So you think I’m a Jew? You are a total idiot who can’t read.

    • Replies: @vot tak
  284. @Harold Smith

    There is an innocuous military term, incapable of maneuver, to describe an army which is nothing more than a group of people in uniforms. They look like an army but, when things go bad, they prove incapable of responding in a disciplined, purposive manner. Arab armies come to mind.

    Our government and much of our industry, especially defense and fintec, appear to be incapable of maneuver. They’re justself-seeking individuals with no loyalty to each other, their clients, citizenry, or their country.

    If we don’t want to suffer an interim dystopia, we need to start work on a new constitution because the old one is worn out and we’re going over a cliff.

    I keep harping on China because they read our Constitution and foundation documents and, in 1950, drafted a 20th century constitution which is well worth reading. They’ve convened every 10 years since then and amended it to keep it current. For them, the constitution is a living document, not a totem, and they take it very seriously.

    • Replies: @450.org
  285. Ron Unz says:
    @Alden

    There was no reason to prepare for this 2020 ordinary flu season. As of today, 74,121 deaths attributed to the China flu out of 330 million population.

    There is no epidemic.

    Well, since you now seem to be a Flu Hoaxer, here’s a question for you…

    A CDC report was leaked to the NYT which projects that deaths will probably rise to 3,000/day by the end of this month. If that’s correct, total deaths should probably break 150,000 soon afterward, and with lots of forward momentum.

    So what exactly is the total number of Coronavirus deaths at which you and other Flu Hoaxers will finally admit that “Maybe it’s not just the Flu…”

    • LOL: Alfred
    • Replies: @gay troll
  286. Derer says:
    @utu

    The R2 at dismal 6% indicates that this equation must be rejected. A cucumber causing cancer has better correlation then 2.6% given by correlating X and Y in this model. Fortunately, in many cases even no correlation would indicate something.

  287. @Alden

    “The ventilators vs hydroxycholoroquine controversy was not a science or medical controversy at all. It was a Jew commie democrat liberal attack on Trump.”

    That’s how it appeared.

    Anyway, it was clear from peer reviewed papers by Chinese authors (IIRC there was a paper published in “The Lancet” in Feb.) indicating that most patients who received invasive mechanical ventilation died anyway…something like 86% IIRC. So there was really no option for these patients except drug therapy, and as a practical matter hydroxychloroquine (with or without antibiotics, zinc, vitamin D, etc.) was really the only game in town, especially two months ago. The people who opposed the use of the drug had no argument other than disingenuous pedantry. I was surprised that none of the hydroxychloroquine proponents mentioned the fact that “ventilators” are literally a dead end for many severely ill patients thus the focus should’ve been on early aggressive pharmacotherapy for high-risk patients.

    Although Trump gave hydroxychloroquine lip service and apparently pushed the FDA to allow it, the problem I have is that AFAIK Trump never followed through. The FDA EUA allows federally supplied hydroxychloroquine to be used for “certain hospitalized patients,” but patients can deteriorate rapidly, especially high-risk patients, and by the time they need to be hospitalized many are already having cytokine storm.

    This is why Sen Ron Johnson is trying to pressure Trump to:

    “1. Issue a presidential directive to remove the FDA Emergency Use Authorization restriction that states hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) and chloroquine (CQ) from the National Strategic Stockpile are only approved “for certain hospitalized patients,” and to direct the FDA to include the option of early outpatient use of these medications.

    2. Issue a presidential directive or executive order to a) prohibit governors from arbitrarily restricting hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) to only hospitalized patients, and b) prohibit state medical boards and state pharmacy boards from threats of disciplinary action (now occurring in multiple states) against doctors and pharmacists legally prescribing and dispensing HCQ and CQ off-label for early treatment or prophylaxis for COVID-19 in outpatients or at-risk or exposed persons.”

    My point is that under the circumstances Trump shouldn’t have to be pressured to do this, especially with the mounting “anecdotal” evidence for its efficacy and Dieder Raoult’s published results. The doctors and their patients should decide if and when to administer the drug, not Cuomo or any other governor or Trump. By restricting the use to hospitalized patients only, people are dying unnecessarily, IMO.

    https://homelandprepnews.com/stories/47700-sen-johnson-seeks-action-on-hydroxychloroquine-use/

    I also don’t understand why nobody in the Trump administration (or any of the talking heads on TeeVee e.g. CNN medical correspondent Sanjay Gupta) was recommending that people take a vitamin D supplement for example. If they can recommend masks, frequent hand-washing, social-distancing, etc., why can’t they recommend an over the counter nutritional supplement? What was the downside? Pubmed is full of papers suggesting that vitamin D, vitamin C, magnesium, zinc and selenium supplements may really reduce a person’s risk of severe COVID-19 disease (and other diseases for that matter), yet as far as I know it wasn’t mentioned. Thus I have to conclude that they wanted to ramp up the casualties.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  288. gay troll says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    Maybe it’s not just the flu. Maybe it leaked out of Fort Detrick. Maybe Americans have already been exposed to the virus in vastly greater numbers than official statistics admit. Maybe it truly escaped by accident, and everything since then has been a coverup and a crisis not to be wasted.

    The CDC has zero credibility. They scapegoated vaporizers for EVALI without providing any evidence. By their own admission, EVALI looked exactly like a severe flu and could not be tested for or positively diagnosed. The epidemic gave political cover for attacks on Juul and other e-cigarette manufacturers despite the CDC weaseling out of attribution by blaming “black market” products containing Vitamin E Acetate. But by their own admission, such products were not involved in all cases. They could not say anything conclusive about the cause of EVALI, only that vapes were “linked”, “associated”, and “suspected”.

    You have asked if the virus started here last summer, why was there not a more immediate crisis? Well there was an immediate outbreak of pneumonia that has not been explained beyond a correlation. Those who lacked the correlation of vaporizer use would have still looked like severe cases of flu and could have been blamed on such. As per official statistics 80% would be asymptomatic. And we are talking about the earliest, least infectious strain of the virus.

    Consider the possibility that the CDC and U.S. government are trying to make the current situation in the U.S. look worse than it actually is. Consider they are trying to make it look like we are at the beginning of a Bell curve when we are in fact at its end. Wheels have been in motion long before this thing appeared in Wuhan in December. We are being played.

    Also consider that EVALI has disappeared since peaking in September, and since it looks exactly like COVID19 and cannot be positively identified, and since any suspected case of COVID19 can be listed as such on a death certificate, there is no way for EVALI to even be listed on a death certificate any longer.

    • Replies: @skrik
    , @mh505
  289. thetruth says:
    @Harold Smith

    Here is the 2nd Virginia care facility sees respiratory outbreak

    Mackenzie Bean – Thursday, July 18th, 2019
    https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/post-acute-care/2nd-virginia-care-facility-sees-respiratory-outbreak.html

    both of these two long term care facility and retirement community are close to Fort Belvoir, one is about 10 miles, and the other is about 40 miles. And people say after Fort Detrick was shut down, a lot of those army bioweapon researchers moved to the Fort Belvoir.

    could they bring the virus with them?

  290. @Astuteobservor II

    OTOH there is the old saying: if it looks too good to be true maybe it isn’t.

    When international travel opens up it would now make sense that those who were first shunned, the Chinks, are allowed first and the Yanks and Brits last. Or will they force themselves onto the world like they did their AIDS patients, because of human rights or whatever?

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  291. skrik says:
    @gay troll

    Consider the possibility that the CDC and U.S. government are trying to make the current situation in the U.S. look worse than it actually is. Consider they are trying to make it look like we are at the beginning of a Bell curve when we are in fact at its end. Wheels have been in motion long before this thing appeared in Wuhan in December. We are being played

    Quite possibly, but there are *BIG* questions:

    1. Exactly why did Wuhan react like a cut snake?

    2. Why did the hospital systems break down in Italy, Spain, parts of France, UK, say [all relatively visible] and NYC [situation possibly being obscured]? [Suggested A: Not ‘just a flu’.]

    3. Why was Iran hit so hard [and gone pretty silent], and why are detection numbers apparently going sky-high in Russia, although the death-rate is relatively quite low? [Q: IF a scam, THEN why is Russia ‘playing along?’]

    4. I haven’t tried to find any reason, but why does Belgium sit so high in the “Reported Cases and Deaths by Country” table on this list? [sort it by clicking twice on the “Deaths/1M pop” column.] Note that USA is slowly rising within this list.

    5. Using this tool, one can see how many and where [= by country and site; use the ‘Collection Site’ entry box OR zoom the map and click on a coloured blob] sequences were entered into the GISAID database; Q: Why so few from the US and *none* from Iran? [Of course, being ‘under 40-year long US-attack’ could explain that.]

    [Part repeat:] I do not think that Covid-19 is ‘just a flu’ and I think that the panic in Wuhan most probably started in the next microsecond after they had decoded the [warlike!] spike. rgds

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  292. @Commentator Mike

    If that is the case, then all the Asian countries would be lying, instead of just China. Weird how singling out China became a thing for the hoaxers? When we praised the shit out of South Korea and Taiwan, but call China a liar, for what? They all have almost the same numbers vs covid 19. It just read like retarded politics. Playing politics with covid 19 is akin to playing with American lives.

    Not sure what you mean by the second paragraph.

  293. @skrik

    A lot of small countries at the top of that list.

    They should report all the data in two sets: one for those under 65 years of age and one over 65 years of age to get an idea of the possible social and population impact of this. I know we can try to roughly calculate this ourselves from the age distributions of deaths (but do we have them for all countries or
    just the early Chinese data?) but it would be more impressive to show all data in such a way so those that need to worry less don’t get caught in the general media panic.

    • Replies: @skrik
  294. 450.org says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Excellent rebuttal. I have been saying this forever, that a constitution is, or should be, dynamic and not static. It must remain flexible and malleable. Sure, some best practices & moral sentiments persist for centuries and still apply, but others don’t, and it’s those others that must be pruned and replaced. The 2nd Amendment comes to mind. It has been so grossly perverted and misinterpreted over the centuries that if the Founders observed what it’s become, they’d have a conniption. The 2nd Amendment is just the tip of the iceberg.

    Also, great commentary about “incapable of maneuver.” Many, even the most intelligent amongst us, fail to realize America is now in full-on collapse. It’s like a jet that breaks the sound barrier. There’s a lag between breaking it and the sonic boom from the air molecules rushing back in to fill the vacuum created and smashing into one another. America is in the transition phase that is the lag. The molecules are racing in to fill the vacuum and soon enough they will collide and go boom.

    America is ripe for the taking right about now. Maybe China should try an operation like Trump and Barr recently tried against Maduro in Venezuela. Trump’s Bay of Pigs, and like the first Bay of Pigs, thankfully another miserable, incompetent failure. Hopefully, China’s move will be more competent if it’s so inclined. In fact, I know it would be ten times more competent and effective and at this point, I believe the majority of people would welcome it. How could it be any worse than what we have now (Biden is not the answer to Trump any more than the DNC is the answer to the GOP) and who doesn’t want to see these extractive elite rounded up and executed? I’m not ashamed to say I would cheer such a spectacle as supreme justice for decades if not centuries of corruption and abuse at the hands of these evil monsters.

    • Thanks: Godfree Roberts
  295. skrik says:
    @Commentator Mike

    There are other tables, like “Age of Coronavirus Deaths

    [an extract:]
    .. data provided by New York City Health as of April 14:
    AGE Number of Deaths Share of deaths With underlying conditions Without underlying conditions Unknown if with underlying cond. Share of deaths of unknown + w/o cond.
      0 – 17 years old       3    0.04%    3   0     0   0%
    18 – 44 years old  309    4.5%  244 25    40  1.0%
    45 – 64 years old 1,581  23.1% 1,343 59  179 3.5%
    65 – 74 years old 1,683  24.6% 1,272 26 385 6.0%
    75+ years old      3,263  47.7% 2,289 27  947 14.2%
    TOTAL                6,839 100%   5,151 137 1,551 24.68%

    A conclusion: 72.3% of fatalities were over 65, 20.2% of them with no or unknown underlying conditions. rgds

    • Thanks: Commentator Mike
  296. JDTrader says:

    Nice use of red on yellow background for the graph – very eye-catching.
    But why do you include China on the graph? There is no way you can possibly believe any numbers coming out of China. That would be quite naive and foolish

    • Troll: vot tak
  297. @Astuteobservor II

    I meant China seems to be almost free of the virus so their travellers wouldn’t present a danger to others. However they’d be at risk of catching it travelling to highly infected areas and reintroducing it to China – a blunder on my part.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  298. KA says:

    From April 12, 2009 to April 10, 2010, CDC estimated there were 60.8 million cases (range: 43.3-89.3 million), 274,304 hospitalizations (range: 195,086-402,719), and 12,469 deaths (range: 8868-18,306) in the United States due to the (H1N1)pdm09 virus

    Additionally, CDC estimated that 151,700-575,400 people worldwide died from (H1N1)pdm09 virus infection during the first year the virus circulated.**

    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html

    The numbers seem to have reversed this time
    One wonders why

    But its origin was here in Mexico USA

    deaths were more abroad

    The political mileage from it was not attempted by anybody then

    • Replies: @Alfred
  299. @450.org

    I’ve been thinking along similar lines and it occurred to me that the “Glorious Revolution” of 1688 that ousted the E.-Michael-Jones-like king of England, James the Second, might make a good model for a solution to the American problem. “Throughout 1686 in a fanatical enthusiasm and with a magnificent disregard for worldly advice he promoted Roman Catholics to key positions everywhere.”—Maurice Ashley.

    Called a revolution, it was actually an invasion of England by Holland in which all the English, even including the king’s own daughter, rushed to assist the Dutch invaders. It might be more different in this case because we are talking about the Goebbelsian States of America, totally swamped by a deluge of propaganda drummed into every American since birth. But if the Russians were coming, really, wouldn’t most Americans rush to Putin’s assistance? And wouldn’t that make America a vastly better place?

    • Replies: @Parfois1
  300. @Commentator Mike

    From what I have read. They quarantine every single person coming in from outside China for two weeks. Then still gets monitored for two more weeks. That is how China is doing it. I am not sure about other Asian countries as China has taken most of my Interest in a lot of areas.

  301. mh505 says:
    @gay troll

    A CDC report was leaked to the NYT which projects that deaths will probably rise to 3,000/day by the end of this month

    Sadly, Mr Unz is beginning to lose all credibility in this matter. Now it’s a prediction by the CDC that he quotes as proof that everybody who even remotely questions the rationale behind this lockdown is a “flu hoaxer”.

    But let’s look at some of his own predictions (this is just a sample, there are many more):

    April 4, 2020 = “I wouldn’t be shocked by 1M American dead by early summer, and I suppose even 2M might be possible.”

    April 3, 2020 = “Anyway, my guess would be that there’s getting close to 1M infected New Yorkers by now.”

    April 2, 2020 = “that millions of Europeans may soon die in the outbreak”

    April 2, 2020 = “The horrific calamity now befalling America, perhaps involving a million deaths by early summer”

    April 1, 2020 = “Meanwhile, I think New York will be lucky to avoid at least 100K deaths
    by early summer”

    Wouldn’t it make more sense to keep quiet on the subject?

  302. 450.org says:

    I meant China seems to be almost free of the virus so their travellers wouldn’t present a danger to others.

    Not necessarily and not so fast. Much is yet unknown about this novel virus, but it’s plausible this virus may be more like AIDS than other corona viruses. If so, it means the virus may always be with us in our systems hibernating and reactivating based on certain predicators. Also, it could be that once someone has it, they remain contagious like those with AIDS and pass it along thinking they’re in the clear.

    Garrett has the most realistic take on this virus. If I was POTUS she would be heading up my global response committee/task force to help the world tackle this foe. Instead, we have Stephen Miller who has the emotional and intellectual maturity of a twelve-year-old.

    • Thanks: Commentator Mike
    • Replies: @utu
    , @Commentator Mike
  303. skrik says:

    The Genome Tracker tool has an ‘Evolution’ page, where various complete genomes are listed. The closest-known to SARS-CoV2 [at 96.2% as we know from Forster et al.], is the Bat coronavirus RaTG13.

    Disclosure: I am not a geneticist. I looked at the spike protein sequence of each in a letter-by-letter comparison (see the screen-shot image below.) Where the two differed by a single letter, I ‘cut’ the sequence at that point, resuming on the next line; where the differences were multiple/jumbled, I left them on lines of their own. There is one 4-letter ‘insertion’ into SARS-CoV2 simply not present in RaTG13. I count 13 single-letter changes, 2 jumbled changes and the insertion, together with 6 + 9 jumbles = 42 letter-changes, whereby each letter stands for an amino-acid. I understand that each letter-change is interpreted as a mutation.

    What I have found:

    A ‘withdrawn’ paper, asserting HIV inserts.

    An intended ‘debunk’ paper, alleging “conspiracy theories,” and quote: “This notion has been fully debunked in the media.” Me: Haw.

    New, this paper, conclusion “It is found that the hypothesis origin of SARS-CoV-2 is almost certainly natural origin” – possibly only submitted as a PR exercise.

    My questions are two:

    1. Is there anyone ‘out there’ reading this who can explain what we are seeing in these two spike sequences?

    2. With 42 mutations in the spike alone, how likely is it, that SARS-CoV2 ‘evolved’ from RaTG13 by some *natural* process[es], or [by elimination of the perhaps impossible], do we ‘default’ to some deliberate [=man-made] interference? rgds

  304. 450.org says:

    Trump is blaming China on the one hand, and on the other hand he’s doing China’s bidding by ordering the meat packers back to work for pittance wages and unsafe working conditions especially considering this virus is ravaging the meat packing industry. On top of that, Trump is preventing these employees, slaves really if you think about it, from suing Smithfield. Smithfield, as it turns out, is a Chinese company.

    Is Trump a stooge for China? It appears Trump is a stooge for any and all powerful interests. He’s an enemy of the people. He’s a tool of, and a fool for, the extractive elite and the extractive elite transcend nations and cultures. The extractive elite are a nation and culture unto themselves. Death to the extractive elite wherever they may be.

    https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/china-buys-smithfield-foods-owned-wh-group

    Smithfield Foods was founded in Virginia in 1936, and its pork products are ubiquitous in U.S. supermarkets, but the company was actually bought by WH Group, formerly known as Shuanghui International, for $4.7 billion in 2013.

    Smithfield became a subsidiary of the publicly traded Chinese corporation after the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS) said the acquisition would not endanger national security.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/judge-dismisses-lawsuit-over-worker-safety-smithfield-pork-plant-n1201236

    A federal judge has dismissed a worker advocacy group’s lawsuit accusing Smithfield Foods Inc, the world’s largest pork processor, of failing to adequately protect employees from the novel coronavirus at a plant in Missouri.

    Smithfield is already taking many of the steps called for by the Rural Community Workers Alliance, including screening production-line workers for symptoms and installing barriers between them, District Judge Greg Kays in Kansas City, Missouri, said in his ruling on Tuesday.

    Kays also said that under President Donald Trump’s executive order in April requiring meatpacking plants to remain open during the pandemic, the federal government, and not the courts, were responsible for overseeing working conditions.

    Virginia-based Smithfield, which is owned by China’s WH Group Ltd, did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

  305. utu says:
    @450.org

    Thanks. Yes, Laurie Garett take is very sensible and realistic.

  306. @Nils

    “All that is missing, really, is the first 5 seconds of the Big Bang, so to speak. When initial, fundamental interactions dominate the flow of future events.”

    There was no “Big Bang”.

    The “Big Bang” THEORY was derived as a necessary consequence of the “Red Shift” THEORY.

    The “Red Shift” THEORY was proposed by one Dr. Hubble (after whom they named the space telescope) to account for the shift of star light towards the red end of the optical spectrum, suggesting that this shift was a Doppler effect due to the receding velocity of stellar objects in all directions.

    A corollary of the “Red Shift” THEORY is that a stellar object’s distance from Earth is determined by the amount of “red shift” in the object’s optical spectrum.

    However, multiple objects have been found IN FRONT OF (closer than) other stellar objects, whose “red shift” indicates they should be far (VERY far) behind those other objects, wrt the Earth.

    The “Red Shift” THEORY is false.

    Ergo, the “Big Bang” THEORY is false.

    There was no “Big Bang”.

    Yet the Universities still teach the “Big Bang” THEORY (which has been disproven) as though it is a FACT. Scientific dogma, no less, on which thousands of government grants and astrophysicist careers depend. A dogma so pervasive, that all common folk “know” the “Big Bang” is true.

    Much like persistent Cold War mindsets and American / Western propaganda.

    • Replies: @skrik
  307. @Hibernian

    “You might be overstating your case.”

    If anything, he / she is understating his / her case by a big margin.

    There are dozens of cheap & effective cures for cancer – but we’re not allowed to know this, let alone make use of them. They will even trash your house, take all your money and throw you in jail if you try.

    Big Pharma is making TRILLIONS out of the cancer industry, and the money’s in the “treatment” and the “search for a cure”, not in the cure.

    All the people that suffer and die from cancer are just collateral damage from Big Pharma’s business model.

    The same principle applies right now to Big Pharma’s “search for a vaccine” for Corona-Chan.

    • Replies: @Poco
  308. Herald says:
    @AnonFromTN

    I accept that this is likely a whopping payday bonanza for Big Pharma, but I doubt money is the only or real driver here. Like leopards, I suspect that ardent advocates of global population reduction will also have tremendous difficulty in changing their spots. So they will have to chain me down before I become infected with the Gates Eugenicists Special Brew that’s heading our way. Dangerous times ahead.

  309. @JDTrader

    Have you ever found a Chinese Government stat that was false, misleading, or discredited by subsequent events?

    I’ve been matching their words to their deeds for 60 years and have yet to find a discrepancy.

    My hypothesis is that the ‘Bad China Dodgy Stats’ meme was invented to cover MSM embarrassment over reports like these:
    1990. China’s economy has come to a halt. The Economist
    1996. China’s economy will face a hard landing. The Economist
    1998. China’s economy’s dangerous period of sluggish growth. The Economist
    1999. Likelihood of a hard landing for the Chinese economy. Bank of Canada
    2000. China currency move nails hard landing risk coffin. Chicago Tribune
    2001. A hard landing in China. Wilbanks, Smith & Thomas
    2002. China Seeks a Soft Economic Landing. Westchester University
    2003. Banking crisis imperils China. New York Times
    2004. The great fall of China? The Economist
    2005. The Risk of a Hard Landing in China. Nouriel Roubini
    2006. Can China Achieve a Soft Landing? International Economy
    2007. Can China avoid a hard landing? TIME
    2008. Hard Landing In China? Forbes
    2009. China’s hard landing. China must find a way to recover. Fortune
    2010: Hard landing coming in China. Nouriel Roubini
    2011: Chinese Hard Landing Closer Than You Think. Business Insider
    2012: Economic News from China: Hard Landing. American Interest 
    2013: A Hard Landing In China. Zero Hedge 
    2014. A hard landing in China. CNBC
    2015. Congratulations, You Got Yourself A Chinese Hard Landing. Forbes 
    2016. Hard landing looms for China. The Economist
    2017. Is China’s Economy Going To Crash? National Interest
    2018. China’s Coming Financial Meltdown. The Daily Reckoning.
    2019 China’s Economic Slowdown: How worried should we be? BBC
    2020. Coronavirus Could End China’s Decades-Long Economic Growth Streak. NY Times

    • Thanks: Olivier1973, V. K. Ovelund
  310. @JDTrader

    Do you live under a bridge? You do sound very much like a paid troll.

    Most of the nations in China’s neighborhood actually LISTENED to the warnings coming from China and the WHO, and acted accordingly – and achieved proportional results similar to China.

    China’s results on the chart are eminently credible, and are supported by the the similar results of other nations who learned early from China’s example – notable among them, Australia & New Zealand.

    At the other extreme, we have the UK and the USA. Given the apparent governmental priorities of these nations, also entirely believable results.

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • Replies: @Biff
  311. Parfois1 says:
    @450.org

    I have been saying this forever, that a constitution is, or should be, dynamic and not static. It must remain flexible and malleable.

    But that is exactly what’s the trouble with Constitutions, they become, like the UK’s unwritten constitution, tools to be used by state power by interpretative changes to suit the times or need. For instance, I would suggest the legislators who enshrined the right of citizens to bear arms really meant it as protection against the tyranny of state power. Yet it was written in such “flexible and malleable” manner that enable the state to usurp or extinguish the people’s constitutional rights.

    Mind you, the drafting of constitutions commonly observe that general principle of “dynamic” adaptation to the times but neglect to take into account the state’s creeping power grab. The Chinese example of mandatory periodic reviews (thanks Roberts’ revelation) perhaps are a better model. My model constitution would use clear iron-cladded and unambiguous wording and explanatory preambles to make it, as far as possible, impossible to be altered by the state, always keeping in mind that the judicial branch is part of the state power.

    Some countries have separate Constitutional Courts or Tribunals whose members are not chosen or appointed by the executive but even those more independent bodies can be subverted by the state.

    Hope the current troubles be the impetus for a social wakening and bring about a cathartic transformation of the state by the people, of the people and for the people. (Of a fine morning, nice to have a fleeting dream!)

  312. Seraphim says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    It is the same article reproduced all over again! Rule number one of ‘journalism’: don’t let facts stand in the way of a good story, especially when it is the story that you want to hear.

    • Troll: Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @Seraphim
  313. Parfois1 says:
    @Ann Nonny Mouse

    But if the Russians were coming, really, wouldn’t most Americans rush to Putin’s assistance? And wouldn’t that make America a vastly better place?

    Not unique either! The Russians did that in the X Century when, as tradition and legend has it, they invited the Varangians (Vikings) to come to rule over them because the squabbling parties (presumably the local variety of Reps and Dems) made the place (Kiev-Rus) ungovernable. About time they (the Russians) return the favour!

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  314. Parfois1 says:
    @skrik

    I commend your determination and wish I could help but its totally out of my depth to even try.

    But I know of someone who is as determined and knowledgeable as you are and might answer your call if she is within cooee (oops, there goes another clue!): Iris, our own “Pucelle d’Orleans”.

    • Thanks: skrik
    • Replies: @Iris
  315. denk says:

    [[[uncle sham]]] wanna ‘investigate’ Wuhan labs !

    The serial arsonist ,now donned in firemen’s garb, helping investigation at the crime scene ?
    What could go wrong, ?

    Who’s goING to check how many of thsoe pre Wuhan ‘flu deaths’ in US for CV traces ?

    Who’s going to verify how many of the current ‘CV deaths’ are genuine ?

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/funeral-directors-covid-19-epicenter-doubt-legitimacy-deaths-attributed-pandemic-fear-numbers-padded/5711447

    • Replies: @Parfois1
  316. Seraphim says:
    @Seraphim

    But I was not attacking you GR. On the contrary. I am always on your side.

    • Replies: @Parfois1
    , @Patagonia Man
  317. Erebus says:
    @skrik

    This article makes a clear, apparently compelling argument that:

    [a] the “Bat virus” everyone’s using as the 96% matching progenitor of CoV-SARS-2 is itself a fake. That is, RaTG13 doesn’t exist in nature and never did, and…
    [b] that RatG13’s “genome”, which remained unpublished since its discovery in 2013 until Jan, 2020, and for which no known physical example exists was literally typed up to mask CoV-SARS-2’s engineered origins.

    The conclusion is that RaTG13 is a red herring created for the purpose of throwing geneticists etc off the trail. Either CoV-SARS-2 has been engineered, or RaTG13 has (if it exists at all), or both.

    Every day I lean another fraction of a degree towards this pandemic being the result of a set-up operation that may (or may not) have gone horribly wrong.

  318. Parfois1 says:
    @Seraphim

    But I was not attacking you GR. On the contrary.

    Agree, Godfree jumped the gun. Mind you, your remark was on the ambiguous side and easily interpreted as a response to what he posted, not the content of what he revealed – if that makes sense!

  319. Parfois1 says:
    @denk

    [[[uncle sham]]] wanna ‘investigate’ Wuhan labs !

    What’s so odd or unusual about that? The Ukraine was part of the joint investigation into the downing of the Malaysian plane (with veto power!), yet it was, by any impartial observer, suspect No. 1.

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @denk
  320. Biff says:
    @Ultrafart the Brave

    Most of the nations in China’s neighborhood actually LISTENED to the warnings coming from China and the WHO, and acted accordingly – and achieved proportional results similar to China.

    Agreed, where I live(Chiang Rai province Thailand) has been Covid free for almost a month, but still in lockdown until further notice.

    I’m going to assume that quarantine of travelers is the only option with the virus still ravaging other parts of the world… for years to come..

    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
  321. Coronavirus: US reversal scuppers UN vote on global pandemic ceasefire
    The country’s delegation declared it could not support the current draft, without further detail, after nearly two months of difficult negotiation

    When asked for an explanation of the US move, a State Department official said that China had ‘repeatedly blocked compromises’

    The United States has stunned other members of the UN Security Council by preventing a vote on a resolution for a ceasefire in various conflicts around the world to help troubled nations better fight the coronavirus pandemic, diplomats said.

    Washington’s reversal on Friday came a day after it agreed to the text, negotiators said under cover of anonymity.
    https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/3083625/coronavirus-us-reversal-scuppers-un-vote-global

    • Thanks: Iris
  322. There is much more news coming out, seemingly every week if not every day, documenting that the virus was floating around in the world at least since October and even earlier, and a new source of information on the coronavirus and updates:

    https://www.moonofshanghai.com/

    French virologists have now concluded “The coronavirus outbreak in France was not caused by cases imported from China, but from a locally circulating strain of unknown origin . . .”, (1) and, from other studies, that strain existed only in the US. My information is that Italy, Spain and perhaps also Portugal have come to the same conclusion. And the Cambridge study of more than 1,000 virus samples helps document this. There is also the very strange case of the two scientists (both Chinese nationals) who were on the verge of a stupendous discovery about the virus suddenly dying in an apparent ‘murder-suicide’ with no motive or proof.

    Next, “Data shows Canada’s early COVID-19 cases came from the U.S. not China”. (2)

    Of considerable interest is that New York is now feverishly telling Americans that the “Coronavirus came to New York from Europe, not China”. This is not being done to defend China, nor from any sudden surge in Christian righteousness. Rather, it is a pre-emptive move to deflect the blame which is certain to follow the inescapable conclusion that Europe was seeded from the US. The basis for their claim appears to be solely that the virus strain affecting New York and Italy are identical, the blame attributed to “travelers” from Italy infecting Americans in New York, while ignoring the fact that the airplanes are not empty when flying from the US to Italy and all evidence is that the infection occurred in the other direction. (3) (4)

    Then, “Study: 2nd Japan infection wave came from West”. It appears that Japan’s first infections, like those in several other countries, were among a few visitors from Wuhan, but “The virus confirmed in Japan had a characteristic closer to the gene of the virus that spread in European countries than that from Wuhan”, and Europe’s haplotypes appear to have originated in the US because only the US has all the strains. (5)

    Australia’s Prime Minister recently stated that 80% or more of all infections in his country came from the US. (6) Similarly, Iceland confirmed that some of their coronavirus infections have been traced to Denver. (7) (8)

    Then, The mayor of Belleville, New Jersey, Michael Melham said he has tested positive for coronavirus antibodies, adding that he contracted the novel coronavirus in November, over two months before the first confirmed case was reported in the U.S. (9) Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s chief epidemiologist, said the coronavirus may have been circulating in the country since November. (10)

    Lastly, There is something strange about the virus in Russia. For a long time, Russia had only a few infections, rising steadily by only five or ten per day, then suddenly it exploded, rising by 5,000 and then 10,000 per day. Virus outbreaks don’t normally manifest that way. The normal process is a steady increase and rapid acceleration in the number of infections until it peaks, as happened with all other countries. But with Russia, the infections were minor for a long time, steady at very low numbers, with all the indications of an unsuccessful epidemic. I would be very interested to see the genome sequences from the first infections in January and February, and for those happening in April and May. I suspect the two varieties are different, which would suggest Russia was seeded again with another variety for a second attempt.

    (1) https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/world/coronavirus-outbreak-in-france-did-not-come-directly-from-china-gene-tracing-scientists-say/ar-BB13kun3

    (2) https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-05-01/Data-shows-Canada-s-early-COVID-19-cases-came-from-the-U-S-not-China-Q8jSdpazo4/index.html

    (3) https://newsaf.cgtn.com/news/2020-04-25/Coronavirus-came-to-New-York-from-Europe-not-China-Governor-PXHsqNUTHG/index.html

    (4) http://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-nw-nyt-new-york-coronavirus-europe-genomes-20200409-iti55bz5crbatn2xo5a56sdzda-story.html

    (5)https://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202004/30/WS5eaa39a6a310a8b241152e71.html

    (6) https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-03-22/PM-Morrison-80-percent-Australia-cases-are-imported-mostly-from-U-S–P41uG3CfWU/index.html

    (7) https://www.denverpost.com/2020/03/13/iceland-coronavirus-traced-denver/

    (8) https://icelandmonitor.mbl.is/news/news/2020/03/13/three_covid_19_cases_in_iceland_traced_to_denver/

    (9) https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-05-05/U-S-Belleville-mayor-claims-that-he-had-coronavirus-in-November-2019-Qfq40LrHlC/index.html

    (10) https://www.ft.com/content/aba67162-9129-41b9-b82b-d61a890e6589

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @Alfred
  323. @450.org

    If this is airborne AIDS then we’re all fucked. When AIDS first appeared some speculated that an airborne version that could be passed with a sneeze or a cough would truly be a doomsday virus.

    • Replies: @450.org
  324. I would like to see the official Chinese assessment of the virus’s origin and history, as presented to the Chinese public – e.g. by their Ministry of Health, Academy of Sciences, or CDC.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  325. @Godfree Roberts

    Just a headsup … The Economist is a Rothschild publication, now part-owned, The wife, Lynn Forester de Rothschild used to be Editor. Personally, I wouldn’t believe a single article in The Economist – its all propaganda to fit their narrative, which is your point, I know.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  326. skrik says:
    @Ultrafart the Brave

    There was no “Big Bang”

    OT! But if I may; IF you nay-say the Big Bang THEN you must a) supply a credible disproof and b) supply an alternative explanation for the CMB, say. Some assert that the Big Bang was ‘our’ creation event; others say some putative deity dunnit. I say neither; IF the conservation ‘laws’ hold [I say they must, no deviation ever detected and none expected] THEN the Big Bang was ‘merely’ a phase-change type of event, from almost infinitely dense/hot to expanding and cooling, the current-day results being minutely and intensively examined and the firm consensus. Disclosure: I am not a astrophysicist. Having disposed of any ‘creation event’ I now propose to dispose of any putative ‘creator’ as a) totally unneeded [Occam’s razor] and much stronger b) ‘forbidden’ by those same conservation laws; proffered proof: Since we humans are composed of matter [= protons, neutrons, electrons [themselves composed of quarks] and temporary host to photons, etc, we cannot possibly ‘communicate’ with any deity since any such communication would entail a violation of conservation. Q: Are you basing your red-shift arguments on Arp by any chance? “Most astronomers reject Arp’s interpretation of the data …” So, me having disposed of your proposed big-bang debunk, like to try something else to base your philosophising on?

    PS There is no “missing … first 5 seconds of the Big Bang,” the observable event-horizon [=CMB] is dated to about big-bang plus some 380,000 years, and running our models backwards from then gets us to about 1 second after, ‘before’ which our models can’t cope. At that point some propose ‘hot quark soup’ and we don’t have any idea of any precursor to that. Note I didn’t say ‘hot bat soup’ although I would have no objection to that. rgds

  327. @Patagonia Man

    I believe the current editor, Zanny Minton-Beddowes, is married to the former head of MI6!!

    It’s a piece of shit now almost 100% propaganda, and very little useful information.

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  328. @Mitchell Porter

    No health authority has an official assessment of the virus’s origin and history yet.

    Everyone’s in the early stages of identifying its antecedents.

    China is in the lead since it was apparently the only country with a large (70,000 nodes) active Coronavirus detection network.

    From its public statements, China’s CCDC identified its Patient Zero at the Wuhan Military Games.

    France, though it has made no official statement about the virus’s origin and history yet, is the most active and transparent Western country searching for it. England is in the vanguard, too, for their evolutionary genetic work

    Italy is the dark horse, since several of its leading epidemiologists say Covid-19 was in their country in October–but they have not released any genetic evidence.

    The US is at the back of the pack because the CDC banned Coronavirus testing until March 3 and refuses to identify its Patient Zero.

  329. @Seraphim

    Yes, I too, knew what you meant Seraphim, but your wording could be read two different ways.

  330. Seraphim says:
    @Ayatollah Smith

    Russia’s concern with the laboratories in the former states of USSR is then understandable. Especially those in Ukraine and Georgia.

  331. 450.org says:
    @Commentator Mike

    I agree, if it’s airborne, it truly is a new world and the former world is in no position to confront it effectively. Not China, not Vietnam, not New Zealand, not anybody. It will be the end of the former world for certain.

    I remember when word of AIDS started circulating in the early 80’s and it was conjectured that you could catch the disease from toilet seats and other surfaces because so little was known about it. As it turns out, AIDS was and is contracted via sharing needles and sexual intercourse, particularly and especially anal sex where tiny tears in the rectum allow subcutaneous exchange of the virus.

    As we’re seeing with this novel corona virus, it’s much easier to contract it than AIDS and therefore is not just limited to people who engage in casual unprotected sex and who are intravenous drug users.

    Take New York for example where the new cases they’re seeing are people who claim they’ve been sheltering in place and following the quarantine guidelines. Sure, it could be that despite their vigilance a weak link exists in their caution, i.e. contact with a family member who claims to be quarantining per the guidelines but in fact is “cheating” like the hypocrital grossly negligent and selfish Neil Ferguson for example.

    I’m still flummoxed as to how Trump and Pence have not contracted this virus despite what we’re discussing here and especially considering their repeated exposure as the latest news reveals. They are prime targets for this virus. Trump is obese and hasn’t exercised a day in his life and has a terrible diet. He takes none of the precautions the health kooks on these boards claim you should take to ward off this menace and yet Trump & Pence appear to have immunity and they appear to know they have immunity. We know these two scumbags are not brave and are in fact uber cowards. Trump is a germaphobe afterall, and yet he doesn’t bother to wear a mask yet he’ll don goggles, brazenly and tauntingly, at a mask manufacturing facility.

    View post on imgur.com

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  332. @Astuteobservor II

    I’d like to think that China has done reasonably well at containing the virus. But look at this data for regions other than Wuhan/Hubei:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1090007/china-confirmed-and-suspected-wuhan-coronavirus-cases-region/

    Some of those are lower than some small provinces in the West which have had warning and are in lockdown. We’re talking about megacities in a country where the virus originated (or supposedly originated) and they didn’t have any warning as the authorities in Wuhan didn’t immediately know what was going on and they were initially suppressing release of a warning (evidenced by that doctor they silenced, and by the firing of those bigwigs in Wuhan for their incompetence in handling the situation) while all the time infected people were travelling in and out of Wuhan until they shut it down. I’m not sure if I should even trust the Hong Kong numbers, but OK, the only people who were in the streets before the lockdown were protesters and they all wore masks, some even hi-tech ones to filter the tear gas, and most other citizens stayed away from public spaces because of the violence, but still … Colour me skeptical for now.

  333. @450.org

    Yes, that’s absolutely weird Trump wearing goggles but not a mask while visiting a mask factory. He’s not that stupid. Was he trying to convey a secret message to the QAnons that we haven’t been able to decipher yet?

    • Replies: @Jiminy
  334. @Commentator Mike

    Skepticism is 100% OK. As long as logic is applied.

    Selective skepticism just screams politics. Which is a huge no no since we are talking about people’s actual lives here.

    You can’t question Chinese data without questioning all Asian data. Since your entire reason for questioning the data is your own disablief that China can do so well combatting this virus. A nation wide medical quarantine is very very different than our own retarded partial lock downs.

    Just FYI, the Chinese people were already self quarantining before the official one. Some towns even went as far as bulldozing roads to prevent outside human traffic. They took it very very seriously.

    Now think about this. If we implemented a nation wide quarantine now like China, in 6 weeks this would all be over. Instead of the new predictions claiming we will have this virus till Oct or forever. If we did it starting March, this would already be over weeks ago. There would no longer be a tough choice of sacrificing lives to restart the economy.

    How nice would that be?

    That is the difference.

    • Agree: Adûnâi
    • Replies: @Alfred
  335. Alfred says:
    @Harold Smith

    If they can recommend masks, frequent hand-washing, social-distancing, etc., why can’t they recommend an over the counter nutritional supplement?

    Their object always was to “improve” the numbers and to scare the population.

    1- Masks are pretty useless unless worn properly and regularly replaced – which is not the case for almost all users.

    2- Social distancing is totally unproven. It is folklore. Here is a better explanation.
    Social Distancing Covert Tactic Against Civil Unrest

    3- Frequent handwashing merely ensures that it takes longer to build up the necessary herd immunity

    4- Masks and sheltering indoors ensure that people do not get sufficient sunshine to replenish the vitamin D that they used up during the winter. That is also why they discourage vitamin supplements.

    Once you understand their real objective, everything falls into place.

    Here is an explanation of one expert programmer’s opinion of Ferguson’s crap software that was used to promote a general panic.

    I Have Reviewed Ferguson’s Code and It’s a Joke – Martin Armstrong

    • Replies: @Alden
  336. Alfred says:
    @skrik

    I know nothing about the genes of viruses. However, I have some idea as to whose opinions I would trust and whose opinions I would not trust. Anything coming out the USA is suspect. Anything coming out of China is suspect.

    At the moment, the only person I trust is professor Luc Montagnier – the one who really did discover HIV and who deserved to get the Nobel Prize alone. He is certainly not a favourite of the French Establishment.

    French professor Luc Montagnier, who won a Nobel prize in 2008 for his work on the HIV virus as cause of the Aids epidemic, maintains that the coronavirus is a manipulated virus. He has stated: ‘It was produced by a laboratory. It is what is known as a recombinant, perhaps produced by a Chinese laboratory. It was a job for molecular biologists. It’s a very meticulous job. You could say a clockwork of sequences. There is enormous pressure for everything that is at the origin of the virus to be hidden’.

    Statements by Montagnier, Nobel prize winner, on the origins of the coronavirus

    The only bit I disagree with is the “perhaps produced by a Chinese laboratory”

    The only other possible explanation that I can think of is that the HIV portion was donated by someone in California who is HIV positive. California is where version A of the virus originated. Viruses are known to “swap” useful genes. I think Montagnier did not look carefully at that possibility and assumed that bats were involved.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Olivier1973
  337. Jiminy says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Maybe he heard that wearing glasses can make you look more intelligent. We’re living in crazy times. Where I am, the rugby league is about to restart with a shortened season. But before the players can hit the field, the government has told them that they will need to be vaccinated for the flu. Understandably some of the players have said no, and a lot of people are scratching their heads as well. A compulsory flu shot? A good example of top level thinking.

  338. denk says:

    “We’re not new to this kind of graft. We have seen it on issues related to the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region and Hong Kong Special Administrative Region. Do we have more effective ways to deal with these kinds of lies? Can we sue them?” asked Hua.

    http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1187704.shtml

    [[[five liars]]] on steroid. !

  339. denk says:
    @Parfois1

    MH370, Bali bombing, 911, CV19,
    MH17, AF447, JFK, …..

    Tip of an iceberg,

    suspect, prosecutor, judge, executioner all in ONE =
    THE PERFECT CRIMINAL

    • Agree: Patagonia Man
    • Replies: @acementhead
  340. Alfred says:
    @KA

    From April 12, 2009 to April 10, 2010, CDC estimated there were 60.8 million cases (range: 43.3-89.3 million), 274,304 hospitalizations (range: 195,086-402,719), and 12,469 deaths (range: 8868-18,306) in the United States due to the H1N1pdm09 virus

    This is interesting.

    The population of the USA in 2010 was 308 million. The number of infected was 60.8 million. That suggests that herd immunity was reached when 19.7% of the population was infected.

    That magical number of 20% has been repeated by me in a number of comments here. I don’t claim to have originated it. 🙂

  341. skrik says:
    @Erebus

    Opinion only: The ‘level of technology’ in the cited article is ‘beyond my pay-grade,’ and will presumably be argued by other ‘factions.’ What I can see coming from nerdhaspower [thnx for the article] is a one-way arrow pointing at the CCP in general, and Zhengli Shi in particular [things we’ve seen before]. One thing that is exceedingly clear is that in a ‘worst case’ scenario [for them], the US[+] must disown any/all responsibility in any way/cost possible – but IMHO; they are the ones who best-fit:

    At any crime-scene, one must consider means, motive and opportunity, but a more complete list includes premeditation, presence, any modus operandi and cui bono?

    So I can agree with your

    this pandemic being the result of a set-up operation

    which, similar to 9/11, which was ‘blamed’ on alleged ‘perpetrators’ that didn’t do it [couldn’t have flown as alleged, could never have preloaded the explosives, say]. With SARS CoV-2 there seems to be a ready scapegoat [CCP etc.], but as I’ve pointed out before, Wuhan reacted like a cut snake, while the US and UK reacted, if that’s the right verb, with total, abject insouciance. Since I’m pretty sure that those pulling the strings behind Ft. Detrick etc. [including 16 or so intel agencies] knew *exactly* what was going on in the Wuhan biolab [to the point of being intimately involved]; your

    operation that may (or may not) have gone horribly wrong

    was likely foot, shoe, other. Wuhan’s reaction was a) shock-horror due to the potential damage and b) because they recognised the ‘stitch-up’ ploy. The US and UK insouciance was due to the ‘trial run’ of the original SARS which hardly spread. rgds

  342. Alfred says:
    @Ayatollah Smith

    Thank you. Most interesting. Especially about Russia.

    Now, it makes more sense why Moscow and Saint Petersburg were locked down in a hurry. The Russians believed they were under attack and were not sure of the characteristics of this virus strain. Happily, their health service seems to be much more successful at helping those in trouble than those of the UK and the USA.

    Today, May 9, is Victory Day. The brave Nazis of Ukraine bombarded a statue that some kids in the Donbass were cleaning for this day. A number of kids were seriously wounded.

  343. utu says:
    @Erebus

    How to cover up the tracks of bioengineering? We have speculated about it.

    https://www.unz.com/article/the-hunt-for-patient-zero/#comment-3831693
    “New virus makers could go around the problem altogether by creating the intermediate stage viruses and introduce them into the natural environments (like bats and pangolins) and then having them discovered by a ‘friendly’ scientist and published and cataloged in the virus directory. So when the suspect new virus is studied, its natural antecedents would be waiting in the catalog to be found to show a plausible natural evolutionary path.:

    That you have dismissed:

    https://www.unz.com/article/the-hunt-for-patient-zero/#comment-3832377
    “Why would they unless it was developed to meet the requirements of a specific attack plan that included the introduction of an array of intermediary genetic red herrings across many generations of bats and pangolins? Has anyone claimed that such a plan exists, much less that it was actually stood up and executed? I haven’t heard of anyone doing so.”

    Anyway if Zhengli Shi did what the article you liked to claims her fabrication and the cover up was post factum unlike in the scheme I was suggesting. If so then the virus release was an accident.

  344. What we desperately need is a “whistle blower.” There must be many people in the U.S. e.g. CDC personnel, doctors who treated sick people at the “Greenspring Retirement Community” in VA, etc., who know that SARS-CoV-2 was in the U.S. well before it was detected in China.

    If I was a wealthy person, I’d offer a significant reward to anyone in the U.S. who can provide proof that the virus was in the U.S. before it was detected in Wuhan.

  345. Anon[544] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alfred

    Except he changed his tone when pressed for evidence. Now he says he doesn’t know the origin.

  346. utu says:

    Analysis of cellphone location data in high-security area of Wuhan virology lab that studied coronavirus in bats indicates it shutdown in October after a ‘hazardous event’
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8302739/Cellphone-location-data-analysis-Wuhan-virology-lab-suggests-hazardous-event-October-shutdown.html

  347. vot tak says:
    @Erebus

    From the earlier article posted on that site?:

    “As of me, I am fully convinced that this is a bioweapon made by the CCP.”

    The annonymous blogger refers to the virus as “Wuhan coronavirus” – trump would no doubt be proud of him.

    There is only 2 articles posted on that blog and it was apparently created to write about the virus. The author remains completely annonymous and there is no contact information. It looks to me like an israeloamerican-uk sort of stitch up source designed to present credible, professional looking info that is framed in such a way to convince people there is credible evidence that “China done it”. Their fakes can be very sophisticated and complex.

  348. @utu

    I was like omfg, maybe this issue would finally put to rest. Then I read the article.

    Like wtf utu. That was a nothing burger.

  349. Alfred says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Now think about this. If we implemented a nation wide quarantine now like China, in 6 weeks this would all be over.

    Provided you keep your borders closed indefinitely. LOL

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  350. @utu

    Wow that’s damning…as its absurdity so clearly reflects the guilty desperation of the satanic cult that runs the corrupt west.

    • Replies: @Half Back
  351. @Alfred

    Nope, just a two weeks screening of all inbounds from outside of the border. Two weeks of quarantine n temperature checking. China by doing this has caught 1600 cases already. It works. I would have thought the screaming alt rights would jump at the chance to tighten the borders.

  352. d dan says:
    @Erebus

    Thanks for the link. The article main argument rests on the following two points:

    1. RaTG13 is faked.
    2. The natural synonymous/non-synonymous ratio between RaTG13 and Covid-19 (i.e. “Wuhan coronavirus” in the article) is not maintained.

    I can’t argue on point 1 – it has to mainly rest on the credibility of Shi. The author (“Nerd has Power”) mentions several interesting points (e.g. publication date and biological features). The readers can decide whether there are some innocuous explanations for the author’s questions and whether RaTG13 exists in nature or not.

    It is the second point that I want to challenge. The author states:

    “How could Zhengli Shi fail so badly in fabricating the RaTG13 sequence? While, when I said it was easy to type out a fake sequence that is 96% identical to a template, I did not say that it is easy to maintain a reasonable synonymous/non-synonymous ratio throughout the whole genome.”

    I disagree. Maintaining a required ratio is NOT a difficult task. It maybe tedious to do it by hand, but it is quite easy to create such sequences with computer program. The algorithm is actually quite simple.

    This of course, does not explain why chart A is so different than chart B. The author chooses to compare the codons sequentially. I don’t know if this is a universal practice with scientific ground.

    My final comment is that the article is extremely well-written (by a scientist?) for lay persons. If the author is confident that this is a scientifically rigorous and substantial paper (I have my doubts), then he/she/they should not remain anonymous and should submit it for publication and review.

  353. @showmethereal

    In fact, the US and Europeans, the very countries that love to teach others how to organize their societies, screwed up more than any Asian country. They confirmed with a vengeance Russian joke “if you can’t swim, teach others”.

    • Thanks: Olivier1973
    • Replies: @Adûnâi
  354. @450.org

    You remind me of a Ukrainian Joke: “We were told than Putin is going to come and everything would crash. Now, everything is crashing. Where the heck is Putin!?”

    The Empire tried to take over Cuba long time ago and Venezuela recently not because it was a smart thing to do, but because the elites are so dumb that they started believing their own lies.

    China does not have that problem, so they won’t take the US even if it’s offered on a gold platter. They have enough their own problems to burden themselves with the problems of a huge decaying Empire.

    • Agree: Patagonia Man
  355. Iris says:
    @Parfois1

    Dear Parfois (and Skrik);

    I am not geneticist and cannot pretend that I can understand and comment on this question.

    Just like you, I have been looking for educated opinions from specialists. The upshot is that, so far, discounting a TV interview given by a lady Czech scientist, there are only two parties who have publicly claimed to have demonstrated the virus was engineered.

    – French Pr Luc Montagnier, Nobel Prize winner for his work discovering the AIDS virus.
    – A team of Indian biologists

    In radio/TV interviews, Pr Montagnier referred to the Indian paper purporting to have identified insertions of HIV virus into SARS-CoV-2.

    “Uncanny similarity of unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV spike protein to HIV-1 gp120 and Gag”
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.30.927871v1

    This paper has been criticized by virologists, including Chinese ones, for faulty methodology and misleading conclusions:
    “Scientists Criticize Un-Peer Reviewed Indian Study That Fuelled Coronavirus Conspiracies”
    https://www.caixinglobal.com/2020-02-12/scientists-rush-to-decipher-coronavirus-in-unvetted-preprint-papers-101514290.html

    As a consequence, the Indian authors withdrew the pre-issue over two months ago and did not re-submit an updated version. This does not speak in favour of their scientific competence; two months is plenty of time to correct non-fundamental flaws.

    Pr Montagnier also refers to this study, in English, by French bio-mathematician Dr Perez whom he helped interpreting the genetic aspect:

    “WUHAN COVID-19 SYNTHETIC ORIGINS AND EVOLUTION”
    The main result of this updated release is the formal proof that 2019-nCoV coronavirus is partially a SYNTHETIC genome. We proof the CONCENTRATION in a small région of Wuhan New genome (300bp) of 3 different régions from HIV1 ENVELOPPE gene and 3 others from HIV2 and SIV (ENV and POL RT). All this is remarkable and bears the mark of a desire for organization of a human nature: LOGIC, SYMETRIES
    https://zenodo.org/record/3724003#.XpsS7W5FxfG

    These demonstrations are weak and unconvincing: the Indian team was unable to respond to scientific criticism, the French duo’s article is a one-man job, and they are criticised by equally competent French virologists, one of whom warmly defended the competence of Wuhan lab biologists.
    http://www.leparisien.fr/societe/coronavirus-et-vih-pourquoi-la-theorie-du-pr-luc-montagnier-est-invraisemblable-17-04-2020-8301387.php

    It is worth mentioning a Russian lady scientist, I think she was head of an academy of Science, who had the most balanced position as she stated that more research was required to find whether the virus was natural or bio-engineered. I can’t find the article at the moment.

    I personally believe that the virus was bio-engineered, one way or the other: the unanimous and instantaneous MSM cry every time the hypothesis is evoked is very telling.

    However, at the moment, there is no credible evidence proving either a natural or an engineered source. What could help understanding where and how the virus came about is the publication of genomes sampled from earlier infections, something the US has spectacularly refused to do. Grosses bises.

    • Thanks: Parfois1, skrik
  356. @skrik

    I am not a geneticist or a virologist. All I know is that RNA viruses mutate ~10-100 times more often than DNA viruses or other life with DNA as genetic material, including us. The molecular basis of this is known: DNA-dependent DNA polymerase has proofreading ability. I.e., when it detects a mismatch (= error), it backs off, destroying faulty DNA copy, until it reaches a perfect match, and then starts copying DNA again. RNA-dependent RNA polymerase all coronaviruses use for copying their genetic material does not have proofreading ability. That’s why we have a new flu every year, sometimes twice a year.

    • Thanks: skrik
  357. @Commentator Mike

    they were initially suppressing release of a warning (evidenced by that doctor they silenced, and by the firing of those bigwigs in Wuhan for their incompetence in handling the situation)

    They didn’t silence a doctor.

    Dr. Li, an ophthalmologist, saw saw the report on ‘a pneumonia of unknown origin’ after it was submitted to Wuhan health authorities.

    He sent a panicky tweet to friends saying, “SARS is back!” and they passed it on and people started fleeing from Wuhan.

    The police told him not to use social media to spread panic and sent him back to work.

    The bigwigs were fired for not responding promptly to the reports.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  358. vot tak says:
    @Alden

    “So you think I’m a Jew?”

    No, shabas goy, I don’t. That would be giving you more credit than you deserve. I often lump israel’s propagandists under the term sayanim whether they are Jewish or not, even though I realise only Jews get to be sayanim and shabas goys, like yourself, are, at best, low iq botton rung take-it-up-the-buttskys seeking their fortunes… 😀

    • LOL: Parfois1
  359. Half Back says:
    @Harold Smith

    Daily Mail is the PR outlet of MI6

  360. @Parfois1

    A few minor corrections.

    Varangians (Vikings) came to Rus long before Kiev and started Rurik dynasty. Russian Prince Oleg, who came from Veliki Novgorod (literally Great New City), conquered Kiev, exterminated local potentates, and made Kiev his capital, was a Rurik descendant. Novgorod was considered a second capital for a long time after that. That is why when prince Vladimir (also Rurik descendant) made Christianity the official religion of Rus, the same team of architects and builders from Byzantium built Sophia cathedrals in Kiev and Novgorod. An apocryphal story has it than Vladimir considered both Christianity and Islam, and rejected Islam, deciding that Rus cannot have a religion that prohibits alcohol.

    The term “Kievan Rus” was introduced many centuries later, in the nineteenth century, by Russian historians, to distinguish it from later states that were also called Rus. While it existed, the state was called simply Rus.

    • Replies: @Parfois1
  361. @Erebus

    “The conclusion is that RaTG13 is a red herring created for the purpose of throwing geneticists etc off the trail. Either CoV-SARS-2 has been engineered, or RaTG13 has (if it exists at all), or both.”

    There’s another possibility, IMO: Suppose RaTG13 is a Chinese-government-approved attempt to give the U.S. “government” a face-saving way out? The question is, will they avail themselves of it?

  362. Parfois1 says:
    @Erebus

    This article makes a clear, apparently compelling argument that:

    ………..

    I’m surprised you would imperil your standing by promoting a clear tendentious piece of garbage wrapped as a scientific study. What’s going on?

    • Replies: @Erebus
  363. Iris says:

    The Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs has published an article on COVID-19, rebutting claims made by the U.S. administration with regard to China’s responsibility in the pandemic.

    In the article, China refutes 24 claims from the U.S., including that the virus stemmed from the Wuhan Institute of Virology. The Ministry says it will continue to rebut the “false claims” if new ones come up.

    The article is backed by very comprehensive bibliographie; it is worth saving.

    Reality Check of US Allegations Against China on COVID-19

    https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/zxxx_662805/t1777545.shtml

    • Thanks: Godfree Roberts, Vidi
  364. Parfois1 says:
    @utu

    Your credibility (already damaged) is on the ropes. It smacks of earlier reports of “21 million mobile phones going out in China”… Teasing?

    • Replies: @utu
  365. utu says:

    …French athletes falling sick in the city in OCTOBER …
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8303979/When-did-China-know-coronavirus.html

    “Several fell ill with bad flu-like symptoms during the event, which took place over nine days from October 18. ‘A lot of athletes at the World Military Games were very ill,’ said Elodie Clouvel, a world champion modern pentathlete.”

    • Replies: @Half Back
    , @Alden
  366. Parfois1 says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Thank you for the correction. My remark was more allegorical than historical, in keeping with the vein and grain of the previous comment.

    It is still a huge gap in my understanding of historical processes why the formation of the centralized nation states of Western Europe took place centuries earlier than in the East. Geography comes to mind as a possible contender for the main root-cause – as per the celebrated French historian Fernand Braudel’s thesis – but I tend to focus more on the sociological and ideological processes.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  367. 790dB says:

    @skrik and @utu

    I’m not a geneticist myself either, check this very well documented article from Yuri Deigu discussing the possibility and method of it being engineered;

    https://medium.com/@yurideigin/lab-made-cov2-genealogy-through-the-lens-of-gain-of-function-research-f96dd7413748

    For me it sounds very plausible, and the article is very level headed. The inserted furin cleavage site in the genome, might well be the WTC7 smoking gun of this Corona saga.

    It also looks like, if so, Bat Woman & an the Wuhan institute of Virology, might be the newest patsy like Osama and Lee Harvey Oswald. Or it was an accident.

    @450.org in this regard I tend to agree with your 92 year old grand-mother, open minded elderly are usually quite spot on.

    Regarding the virus being out there for much longer, I tend to be as skeptical as Ron Unz. However the anecdotal evidence plus the Sweeds, French, etc, speaking openly about it, warrants to take it seriously. Still it raises tons of questions; why suddenly it explodes and before was loitering around. On a personal note; I have been ill in western europe in the months of jan-feb and called it a ‘virus subscription’… so who knows?

    Regarding, this fascinating collective research project and comparing it to the time of 911, what then happened over many years, now happens in the time span of months. I think we all should be weary this is used (premeditated?) to go patriot act 2.0, with draconian authoritarian new ‘methods’ and closing the control grid even further.

    Is there one country in the world where we can flee too? Any suggestions are very welcome.

    • Thanks: skrik, James N. Kennett
    • Replies: @James N. Kennett
    , @skrik
  368. utu says:
    @Parfois1

    30 days ago I wrote:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-our-coronavirus-catastrophe-as-biowarfare-blowback/?showcomments#comment-3850781
    Ron Unz article is the voice crying out in the desert which will not stop the tsunami of memes: WuFlu, China did it, China must pay for our suffering…We must punish China. that has been whipped up from the very beginning and only will be getting lauder and stronger.

    73 Percent of U.S. Adults Say China Bears Responsibility for American Coronavirus Deaths
    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/05/09/73-percent-of-u-s-adults-say-china-bears-responsibility-for-american-coronavirus-deaths/

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  369. Parfois1 says:
    @Iris

    Thank you – you are always a step ahead of others.

    That document is indeed a very comprehensive record of events and arguments about the CV-19 controversial appearance in world affairs and China’s response to the usual chorus of US-led propaganda against its declared “adversary”.

    Still, officially, the Chinese shy away from pointing the finger at the US as the prime contender for manufacturing the bug – not even a hint. Au contraire, they insist that it is of natural origin although respected researchers have stated that there are human fingerprints on it.

    From my understanding, richly extended by your offerings, the bug may show through its genome sequencing to be of natural origin but, at the same time, be an articial creation because its evolution may have been contrived through selective, but natural, breeding.

    I suspect the Chinese know a bit more than what they are prepared to make public at this stage – or have not enough evidence of foul play to run the gauntlet of rigorous scientic scrutiny. They are so circumspect and so much unlike the US ruling clowns!

    On the other hand, they may keep the “secret” as a useful bargain chip in the fulness of time. Cheers.

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @Iris
  370. Half Back says:
    @utu

    Yes Athletics numbering 10,000 must have arrived 7/5 days before start of competition, to acclimatize and settle in.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Military_World_Games

    The 7th Military World Games was the first international military multi-sport event to be held in China and also it was the largest military sports event ever to be held in China, with nearly 10,000 athletes from over 100 countries competing in 27 sports.[4][5] The multi-sport event included 25 official and 2 demonstrative sports. Six sport disciplines such as badminton, tennis, table tennis, women’s boxing and men’s gymnastics made their debuts in the event.
    Opening ceremony 18 October
    Closing ceremony 27 October

    So 10,000 athletics arrive around 11 October and sightseer and train. US contingent take up residence at hotel 300 meters from the infamous ‘wet market’ which did not sell bats. In fact the first documented patients were hotel workers.
    As Godfree states it is the position of the Chinese leadership that Athletes have brought in Coroavirus, Mers (Middle East Respiratory Syndrome came from Jordan by the vector of camels. Have a look at how many countries competed.

    I don’t find it fanciable that athletes were to source, in fact i find it highly likely as the above French competitor says in the Daily Mail.

    List of participating nations

    9,308 athletes from 110 countries participated in the games:[31][32]

    [MORE]

    Algeria (56)
    Albania (5)
    Angola (2)
    Armenia (15)
    Argentina (2)
    Azerbaijan (20)
    Austria (37)
    Brazil (329)
    Bahrain (69)
    Barbados (2)
    Belarus (95)
    Bosnia and Herzegovina (11)
    Belgium (51)
    Botswana (15)
    Bulgaria (21)
    Burkina Faso (3)
    Canada (104)
    Cameroon (55)
    Republic of the Congo (19)
    Cape Verde (4)
    Chile (32)
    Colombia (31)
    China (553)
    Croatia (11)
    Cyprus (8)
    Czech Republic (27)
    Chad (11)
    Democratic Republic of the Congo (26)
    Denmark (61)
    Djibouti (3)
    Dominican Republic (31)
    Ecuador (74)
    Egypt (83)
    Eritrea (3)
    Estonia (27)
    Eswatini (2)
    Finland (53)
    France (273)
    Germany (243)
    Gabon (9)
    Gambia (3)
    Greece (46)
    Guinea (14)
    Guyana (4)
    Hungary (56)
    India (54)
    Iran (90)
    Indonesia (46)
    Ireland (32)
    Italy (139)
    Jordan (5)
    Kazakhstan (62)
    Kenya (14)
    Kuwait (35)
    Lesotho (3)
    Latvia (32)
    Lebanon (7)
    Lithuania (56)
    Luxembourg (17)
    Morocco (24)
    Monaco (2)
    Mongolia (75)
    Montenegro (2)
    Mozambique (3)
    Myanmar (44)
    North Macedonia (4)
    Namibia (3)
    Netherlands (89)
    Nepal (40)
    Niger (3)
    Nigeria (12)
    North Korea (156)
    Norway (28)
    Oman (63)
    Pakistan (19)
    Palestine (9)
    Peru (15)
    Poland (193)
    Portugal (9)
    Qatar (99)
    Romania (77)
    Russia (243)
    Rwanda (41)
    Saudi Arabia (41)
    Senegal (3)
    Serbia (41)
    Slovakia (14)
    Slovenia (32)
    South Korea (172)
    Spain (111)
    Sri Lanka (73)
    Sweden (72)
    Switzerland (67)
    Syria (15)
    Tanzania (22)
    Thailand (55)
    Togo (3)
    Tunisia (17)
    Turkmenistan (4)
    Turkey (20)
    United Arab Emirates (27)
    United States (172)
    Uganda (5)
    Uzbekistan (50)
    Ukraine (87)
    Uruguay (27)
    Venezuela (84)
    Vietnam (32)
    Zambia (13)
    Zimbabwe (28)

    • Replies: @utu
  371. @Godfree Roberts

    He sent a panicky tweet to friends saying, “SARS is back!” and they passed it on and people started fleeing from Wuhan.

    Well there you go. And were those fleeing all traced and checked so that the numbers in those other huge overcrowded megacities are as low as it is claimed? I can agree that keeping him quiet may have prevented those people fleeing and spreading it, but people were travelling in and out of Wuhan regardless. All I was trying to say is that it seems it was there for a while without people knowing until he brought it up, and all the while people were travelling all around China and elsewhere with Chinese tourists and travellers being identified as carriers of Covid-19 at many locations over the world.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  372. @Godfree Roberts

    And a small remote, hardly densely populated, community like Andorra has far more per capita deaths due to Covid-19 than Beijing, Shanghai or Hong Kong. In fact current total deaths due to Covid-19 in Andorra, 48, surpass total deaths due to Covid-19 in Hong Kong, Shanghai, Guangdong and Beijing combined (28). Sure, anything is possible but I’m still not convinced.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  373. @Commentator Mike

    It seems it was not just in Wuhan, but in NYC and Lombardy before it reached Wuhan. Maybe even France. This drama will play out for a while yet.

  374. @Commentator Mike

    They had neither an alarm network nor a plan to deal with a Coronavirus outbreak. China did.

  375. Adûnâi says:
    @AnonFromTN

    > “In fact, the US and Europeans, the very countries that love to teach others how to organize their societies, screwed up more than any Asian country. They confirmed with a vengeance Russian joke “if you can’t swim, teach others”.”

    Isn’t it Russia that is the laughing stock of the world? Along with the US? I don’t know, I’m living under a rock, the only info I check is Wikipedia…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:COVID-19_pandemic_data

    European countries have 2k-4k new cases per day, Russia has 11k and rising, the US reaches 30k.

    > “More than any Asian country”? Are you kidding me? Pakistan, Iran and the Philippines are a disaster.

  376. @utu

    That means 73% of Americans got owned by propaganda.

    That means 73% are stupid. Only 7% shy of my own 80% prediction. A silver lining? Lol.

    You know, if there are no nukes, that is enough prep of the US population for a war with China.

    Food for thought.

  377. @Iris

    France had Covid-19 in November, hospital says after analysis of chest scans
    Study finds person who had the disease 10 weeks earlier than the country detected cases
    Contagion believed to have spread slowly until the end of February before accelerating rapidly
    </i
    Covid-19 cases in France can be dated back to as early as November 16, nearly 10 weeks before the country’s first confirmed cases of the disease were thought to have occurred, according to a French hospital.

    The November case was identified by the hospital’s medical imaging department after carrying out a retrospective study on about 2,500 chest scans performed between November 1 and April 30.
    The findings came as the World Health Organisation (WHO) called on countries to investigate pneumonia-like cases from late last year to get a clearer picture of how the new disease spread.
    Peter Ben Embarek, a WHO expert in animal diseases, said at a press briefing on Friday that the coronavirus that causes Covid-19 originates or spreads in bats and can spread among cats, although it remains unclear which animal may have transmitted the disease to humans, Bloomberg reported.

    The global health body has previously said that establishing the animal of origin is key to preventing a zoonotic disease outbreak happening again. The timeline of the spread of the disease can also provide critical information about the viral genome and how it has evolved, which can be important for developing drugs to combat it.

    In France, some cases were already in circulation in November, said Michel Schmitt, chief doctor of the medical imaging department at Albert Schweitzer Hospital in the town of Colmar in Alsace, near the border with Germany.

    “The first case was noted in our centre on November 16,” said a press release published by the hospital on Thursday. “[There was a] very slow progression of the pathology’s negative impact until the end of February, then a rapid increase in its impact, peaking on March 31

    According to the doctor, the virus dispersed sporadically after the first case in mid-November, before accelerating during year-end events such as Christmas markets and family celebrations until the epidemic went full-blown after a religious gathering in the city of Mulhouse, about 40km (25 miles) south of Colmar, in the last week of February.

    The hospital said it would collaborate with the French National Centre for Scientific Research to open an epidemiological investigation into its findings.

    A peer-reviewed study published on Sunday had already pushed the date of the first known case in France back to December 27 – a 42-year-old man admitted to a Paris hospital with symptoms including cough, chest pain, headache and fever. He was thought to be connected to a person who travelled from China before the virus was identified, the WHO said.

    That discovery came after researchers tested stored respiratory samples of patients with influenza-like symptoms in December and January, said the peer-reviewed paper, published on ScienceDirect.
    Before that study, France’s first confirmed cases had been identified on January 24 as two people who had travelled to Wuhan, the original epicentre of the outbreak in central China.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3083599/france-had-covid-19-november-hospital-says-after-analysis-chest

    • Thanks: Iris
    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Iris
  378. @Adûnâi

    Well going by official figures:

    Pakistan out of a population of 212 million, 30,000 cases, 639 deaths.
    Philippines population of 106 million, 11,000 cases, 719 deaths.

    That’s not bad at all compared to most west European countries.

    But as I keep saying I don’t trust official figures. These could be easily manipulated for various reasons, including lack of competence in the medical profession when dealing with this virus, lack of international standardisation. So many questions, not enough answers.

  379. @Adûnâi

    Clarification: I meant East Asia, not South Asia. As to the number of cases, it heavily depends on the magnitude of testing. Where testing is widespread, it became clear that 50-60% of infected people do not have any symptoms throughout their disease (but still have the virus and can infect others). The real indicator of the quality of healthcare is the number of deaths. Russia performs mass testing and is now #5 in cases, but it is #18 in deaths. All the front-runners in deaths (the US, followed by the UK, followed by other European countries) are those who like to teach others. So, my assertion stands: those the least capable to do something real compensate by lecturing others.

  380. @Parfois1

    why the formation of the centralized nation states of Western Europe took place centuries earlier than in the East.

    The first centralized states appeared in Egypt and Mesopotamia long before Europe. In fact, the first centralized really huge state appeared in China at about the same time as the Roman state (Republic and then Empire). Chinese one lasted a lot longer.

  381. Alden says:
    @Alfred

    Thanks. All my life I read and was told by medical experts that the winter season flu bronchitis pneumonia and colds were spread by people being indoors with others, windows and doors closed breathing each other’s germs.

    And this year we’re told by mayors and governors without a bit of medical or scientific knowledge that the way to prevent flu was to stay inside crowded with the rest of the family and roommates.

    In the 19th century, sunshine was considered a cure for the respiratory disease tuberculosis. In fact the numerous TB hospitals put their patients outside in the sun most of the day as a cure. In the USA, Colorado was known for its TB hospitals. They were established there because although Colorado winters are very cold, the winters are very sunny in contrast to foggy overcast areas.

    I know that before modern ventilation systems, janitors opened school windows and doors for a couple hours every late afternoon to bring in fresh air. Some US military Drs attributed the spread of Spanish flu to soldiers sleeping in crowded barracks with windows closed at Fort Leavenworth Kansas in 1915,16,and 17 long before they brought it to Europe in 1917-18.

    And now all these democrats with no medical or scientific knowledge closed everything down.

    Here’s a source of excellent n95 masks. They are 3m 8210 PLUS. On the side there’s a little sign N95. They are available at Home Depot, Lowe’s and every hardware store in the country by the millions. And they’re sturdy and reusable. They’re much better that those loose fitting rectangle medical masks.

    I saw 2 Drs in February. Both told me not to bother wearing a mask Each said the medical masks were so loose fitting they were useless for prevention from other people’s germs and viruses.

    One of the Drs was wearing one. He said it was only to make his patients comfortable, otherwise useless. His clientele is mostly immigrant Persian Russian Israeli hasid other orthodox and old Jews with old folks eye problems. They are very cantankerous and constantly complaining, kvetching and harassing the practice to do for free treatments not covered by their insurance.

    That’s the only reason he wore it, to avoid a new cause for the constant complaining.

    Yesterday I actually read the labeling on the masks I’ve been using for decades for sanding, cutting glass and tile and other work. It’s manufactured by 3m. It’s their 8210 Plus n95. I suddenly realized that every construction worker has used the perfect n95 epidemic mask at work every day.

    The 3m mask is designed for dust ranging from coarse to very fine. It’s small and round. It fits just over the nose and mouth. There’s a gray strip to show which part fits over the nose. There’s a tight seal that prevents any dust from coming in. And they’re comfortable so workers don’t mind using them. We’ve got hundreds of 15 pack boxes of them in the warehouse.

    I’ve sanded for hours most days for the past 6 weeks. Including very fine dust from wood like cherry and walnut Unlike the medical masks with the 3 flapping edges, dust doesn’t come in through the seal.

    The medical masks are 6 inch long rectangles that are open at the bottom and 2 sides. According to the 2 Drs I saw , they’re useless for preventing germs and viruses coming in.

    The 3m 8210 PLUS n95 masks work to keep the finest softest dust out if you think you need a mask. And you can use them for days if you’re not sanding and using dangerous materials.

    The only reason I looked at was after I used a really strong toxic paint stripper all day long. The stripper was orange. I saw that the outside of the mask was orange from the fumes. But the inside was still white, no orange. So that mask prevented the fumes going through to my nose and mouth.

  382. Jiminy says:

    After reading the official Chinese webpage that Iris mentioned, I got the feeling that China is happy with the “ virus is natural” scenario. And that they are giving America the chance to agree with that as well. They were very diplomatic, the total reverse of the US. I know that last month sco- mo said that 80% of cases are from the US, but here the Chinese have it as Australia said that very few cases came from Asia. They were going very easy on the US, which unfortunately may not get them anywhere fast.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  383. Alden says:
    @utu

    So obviously the American Batmen who flew around Wuhan sprinkling the virus made sure to sprinkle it on French athletes who stayed in a hotel close to the virology laboratory and the infamous wet market. What does the USA have against France?

    Maybe the general public is much more credulous and naive than back when the experts claimed:

    AIDS was a heterosexual disease and had nothing to do with promiscuous sodomy.

    A high carb low fat low protein diet was not fattening. Eggs caused heart attacks so instead of eating one 100 calorie egg for breakfast eat a 500 calorie healthful giant muffin. Pasta was the new miracle diet food.

    Paul Erlich and his book that by 1985 famine would be all over the earth as the population explosion between 1975 and 1985 would outstrip the food supply.

    The Coming Ice Age. About 40 years ago the media, government etc had the naive and credulous worried about global freezing. I remember magazine covers of glaciers looming over cities.

    Bosnia vs Serbia. The media and American government loudly proclaimed the Bosnians were the good guys and Serbians were the bad guys. I just looked at the headlines and assumed the opposite of their Bosnia good Serbia bad was true. And I was right and the media and American government was wrong.

    Then there was Y2 something. All the computers in the world would self destruct when 1999 became 2000.

    Recently there was George Zimmerman and Darren Wilson. The entire media proclaimed them guilty of 1st degree murder. Except they weren’t. Wilson wasn’t even charged. But the media found him guilty.

    The NYSLIMES claims there’s a horrendous covid plague. The SLIMES hasn’t published a truthful word since the 1920s.

    After a lifetime of observing everything in the media is a lie, I’m supposed to believe them now.

    Repeat, 76,000 attributed deaths in a population of 330-40 million. It’s just a normal flu season. Average age of the dead from claimed Covid is 75. Average age of death in America 78.54.

    • Replies: @utu
  384. Anon[544] • Disclaimer says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    https://mobile.twitter.com/isaiah_sweetie/status/1257885191864897536

    Dr Junya Fukushima, who claims to be a spokesperson of MS task Force for Covid 19, an organization of more than 100 doctors, declared on the social media that they found samples of patients who were infected as early as August, 2019. They will publish a formal report soon.

    • Thanks: Iris, Godfree Roberts
  385. @Jiminy

    That’s how I see it as well. The Chinese probably believe – as I do – that the virus was created and released in the U.S. and brought to Wuhan by U.S. personnel in October. And they’re very graciously offering the U.S. “government” a face-saving way out.

    • Replies: @Jiminy
  386. utu says:
    @Alden

    You are ranting. When people rant usual they are in the autopilot mode w/o intervention of reason and logic.

    “It’s just a normal flu season.” – No, it is not. 80,000 died in the US so far while all kinds of countermeasures have been taken: lockdowns, social distancing, face masks. In 1968/69 100,000 people died form the Hong Kong flu w/o countermeasures. Think about Sweden which has no government imposed countermeasures. Sweden deaths per capita is 7 times higher than in Norway, Denmark and Finland – countries with similar socio-economic status and similar population density in case of Norway and Finland. Could we draw a conclusion that if we did follow Sweden and did not have countermeasures just like in 1968/69 the death toll in the US would be 7 times higher, meaning 560,000 deaths by now?

  387. skrik says:
    @skrik

    Too bad I didn’t count correctly; 4 + 6 + 9 + 14 [not 13] = 33, then see the central panel in the image after “Royal Genealogy” in 373.790dB’s cited “Lab-Made? SARS-CoV-2 Genealogy Through the Lens of Gain-of-Function Research” – at least I was on one correct track [of many]. It took me hours of elapsed time to read through “Lab-Made? …” [several intervals of other tasks. etc.], but if I can do it, so can you. Interesting if true; my mind is not made up.

    • Replies: @utu
  388. utu says:
    @Half Back

    If we assume that some athletes were infected with Covid-19 while in Wuhan in the end of October one would expect that 90 days later in the end of January they would have full blow outbreaks at their military bases and in their countries. Italy had 4 deaths on Feb 28, France had 15 death on Mar 11, Spain had 13 death or Mar 9. Iran reported 14 death on Feb 23. China had 8 deaths in Jan 23. I think it would be possible by looking at deaths data for all countries that need with an epidemic and participated in Wuham Military Olympiad to come up with model that would verify whether the epidemics could have began from infections in late October in Wuhan. It would be good to have military data. Soldier are young so their IFR would be very low but there would be some hospitalization and finally the serum tests would show how many were infected. We will get military data only if somebody decides to spin some narrative.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  389. Iris says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Here is an article by “Le Parisien” reporting on the finding that a patient was ill with Covid-19 as early as 16 Nov 2019 in Colmar (Eastern France).

    It informs that, unfortunately, biological samples were not taken at the time from the patient, which is the straightforward and undisputable way of identifying the virus involved. But a very interesting statement is made about lung CT scans:

    Is that credible?

    Two radiologists contacted by “Le Parisien” confirm the interest of a retrospective analysis of the CT scans. “It has been noted that there are four types of specific lesions that are common to Covid-19 pneumonia,” says Jean-Philippe Masson, president of the National Federation of Radiological Physicians (FNMR).
    “These lesions are more or less marked depending on the severity of the infection and they can also be seen in patients with little or no symptomatic, it’s relatively reliable,” he says. “There are certain specific lesions and there are, on the face of it, enough images in a scanner to distinguish them and make a connection with the pathology,” says another radiologist who practices in the Paris region.

    What’s going to happen next?
    However, there is still no certainty that these individuals were indeed infected with coronavirus. Only biological screening could establish this, for example via a serological test to detect the possible presence of antibodies. (especially if no PCR virological sampling was carried out at the time).

    The study “will be able to be further developed through biological data or hospitalization reports, and on the other hand be extended to other imaging centres,” says the hospital’s press release, which has also launched a collaboration with the CNRS to “start epidemiological exploitation of the results.”

    http://www.leparisien.fr/societe/coronavirus-des-cas-de-covid-19-en-alsace-des-le-16-novembre-07-05-2020-8312496.php

    It is great to see that the French medical body is fulfilling its duties towards the French population, by researching all early signs of infection and potential sources of dissemination.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  390. Vidi says:
    @Iris

    Reality Check of US Allegations Against China on COVID-19
    https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/zxxx_662805/t1777545.shtml

    Thanks for the link. For those who haven’t read the article yet, I have one advice: keep reading. The article begins with a summary; this may seem unsatisfying, but it is just a summary. A fuller rebuttal follows.

  391. utu says:
    @skrik

    Thanks for the link to Yuri Deigin analysis: “Lab-Made? SARS-CoV-2 Genealogy Through the Lens of Gain-of-Function Research.” It is the best what I have seen so far on the subject. One must also read the comments.

    Perhaps Ron Unz should consider republishing Deigin analysis.

    https://medium.com/@yurideigin/lab-made-cov2-genealogy-through-the-lens-of-gain-of-function-research-f96dd7413748

    About Yuri Deigin
    https://lifeboat.com/ex/bios.yuri.deigin
    https://www.lifespan.io/news/an-interview-with-yuri-deigin/
    http://youthereum.io

    • Replies: @skrik
  392. @790dB

    The Medium article, though rather long, explains the difficulties of determining whether SARS-CoV-2 is a “natural” virus or was made in a lab. No one knows for sure. The differences between the virus and its nearest bat relative are the kinds of changes that can arise naturally; and such changes are also routinely made by genetic engineering in laboratories studying “gain of function” (GOF) in bat coronaviruses. The writer points out that an animal reservoir species for naturally-occurring SARS-CoV-2 has not been found. He concludes:

    I hope this post is not used to prematurely assign blame or propagate one-sided theories. What I do hope it highlights is the scale of dangerous gain-of-function research that has been and is going on in virology. The Covid-19 pandemic really exposed its huge risks in the face of few benefits: GOF research hasn’t protected us from this outbreak, hasn’t provided us with any effective treatments or vaccines in time to save hundreds of thousands of lives lost to CoV2, and if there is even a 0.1% chance GOF research caused the whole thing, that chance is too high.

  393. Iris says:
    @Parfois1

    On the other hand, they [the Chinese] may keep the “secret” as a useful bargain chip in the fulness of time. Cheers.

    Dear Parfois, I think this is the case. We have become so accustomed to the vulgarity and bravado of Western politicians that we dont realise anymore how diplomatic ties between nations are normally operated.

    If you and the moderator allow me, I will give an example of how “chess-playing”, long term vision-diplomacy operates.

    Until about a year ago, I always believed with awe and admiration that US space engineers sent a manned mission to the Moon. Of course, I’d always heard my British colleagues arguing about the photos of the mission being obviously fake, etc.. Never thought much of it: what are photos worth compared to space engineering, eh?

    Then, I read the UR article on the Moon Landing, and to my great surprise, I found out that commenters whom I highly consider and always read carefully, such as Erebus, were making a mockery of this technological prowess.

    I made more research on other media, and found on RT Arabic a four-part documentary interviewing Alexander Popov, an eminent Russian professor, who absolutely tore into pieces the Moon Landing narrative with Physics and Engineering arguments.
    He also explained that the USSR knew all the way about the hoax, how they captured the empty Apollo 13 capsule off the Azores island, embarked it on a submarine and used it to blackmail the US for funding, grains, goods and industrial investment.

    In summary, sophisticated thinkers don’t brag about their winning cards and keep their powder dry for the best time and opportunity to optimise its effects. Best.

  394. Jiminy says:
    @Harold Smith

    Also, taking the Chinese to court could start a precedent. Of note on their webpage the Chinese mentioned AIDS starting off in the US. It made me wonder if by the American courts blaming China, the US might make themselves a target for people and governments looking for repatriations from the AIDS epidemic.

    • Replies: @Olivier1973
  395. @utu

    Fortunately, many participant nations at the Games are not US ‘allies,’ so we should get some data from them. The French Army, alas, is refusing to test or discuss their athletes infections.

    French media report that military athlete Elodie Clouvel said she and her boyfriend fell ill with Covid-19 while participating in the Wuhan military games. ” I think that with Valentin ( Belaud, her companion, pentathlete too) we already had the coronavirus, the Covid-19, I mean” she said at the time. “We just weren’t talking about it yet”

    The 31-year-old added: “We were in Wuhan for the World Military Games at the end of October. And, in fact, it turns out that afterwards all got sick. Valentin missed three days of training. I was sick too. […] I had stuff I hadn’t had before. We didn’t worry more than that because we weren’t talking about it yet. »

    Her conclusion is unequivocal: “There are many athletes at the World Military Games who have been very ill. We had contact with the military doctor recently who said: “I think you got it because there are a lot of people in that delegation who have been sick” . »

    French Channel BFM TV reports a similar anonymous testimony by another French military who participated in the Wuhan games and fell badly ill with Covid symptoms, as did many colleagues in his delegation.

    The French military authority has indicated that no testing has, or will be conducted on the athletes. It has instructed the athletes no to comment on the subject.

    http://www.leparisien.fr/international/covid-19-des-athletes-francais-contamines-a-wuhan-en-octobre-05-05-2020-8311221.php
    https://rmcsport.bfmtv.com/jo/coronavirus-des-sportifs-francais-s-interrogent-apres-une-competition-a-wuhan-en-octobre-1908001.html

  396. @Erebus

    I read the following.

    The covid-19 is basically a bat virus, but innocuous because it is not able to enter easily human cells.

    To do that it needs a key on its surface to link with the ACE2 receptor in human beings. This key was found in a pangolin virus. And a chimeric virus was lab created.

    Now you do what you want with that information.

  397. @Iris

    Let’s hope that fear of US reprisals is offset by the prestigious medical journals’ expressed eagerness to publish Covid articles!

    • Replies: @Iris
  398. @Jiminy

    Let’s imagine the Amerindians sueing the USA for the theft of their lands…

    Or Iraq for the US agression…

    And so on…

    Gaddafi was right, the mightiest rules. Now who is that?

  399. @Alfred

    Parfois la vieillesse est un naufrage…

    Sometimes old age is a wreck…

    Faites votre choix (do your choice):

    https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffsb&q=pangolin+chauve-souris+virus+chim%C3%A8re&ia=web

  400. Iris says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Dear Godfree;

    What I fear most is the French government, entangled within the EU’s NATO poodle structure, to put pressure on scientists and stop them from researching and publising their findings on Covid 19.

    What I hope most is that French scientists, who are very competent and certainly driven by high professional integrity, to protect the population, pretend not to notice the political pressure and do their job of uncovering the epidemic’s tracks.

    I would say that chances are 50/50, especially that:
    – there have been several separate Covid 19 hotspots in France, which will ease pressure on whistle-blowers
    – the health system is public, so financial blackmail cannot apply so easily on doctors who are civil servants.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
  401. @skrik

    “IF you nay-say the Big Bang THEN you must a) supply a credible disproof and b) supply an alternative explanation for the CMB…”

    While you have good intentions, what you suggest here is not correct. In the context of “the scientific method”, a theory cannot be proven, it can only be progressively tested against predicted outcomes in an attempt to invalidate it. The longer a theory survives such testing, the closer it comes to being accepted as true. However, as Albert Einstein himself [correctly] stated, “all the experiments in the world can never prove any theory, but only one failed test is needed to disprove any of them…”.

    So your point (a) is correct (and only one failed test is required to invalidate the theory).

    But your point (b) is not true. One does not need to have an alternative explanation, plausible or otherwise, in order to discount a theory.

    For example, although I have personal speculations about what punched a hole in the Pentagon on 11 September 2001, I don’t need any alternative theory to know that the evidence on the ground and in the initial on-site video news report (which was purged from the web) scream that the official story is false.

    As it happens, alternatives to the (invalidated) Hubble “Red Shift” theory have indeed been proposed, although that theory (and the “Big Bang” theory which derives from it) would still be invalid even without any alternative proposals.

    The problem with requiring an alternative theory before being willing to let go of an invalidated theory, apart from being unnecessary, is that this precludes an admission that “we just don’t know”.

    • Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
    • Replies: @skrik
  402. @Biff

    “I’m going to assume that quarantine of travelers is the only option with the virus still ravaging other parts of the world… for years to come..”

    Indeed, the travel restrictions are probably here to stay for some time.

    Australia & New Zealand are apparently negotiating a restriction-free “travel bubble” between the two once things settle down a bit more, which will allow trade & tourism to flourish just between them.

    Meanwhile, other international travel – both incoming & outgoing – will remain severely restricted for both Australia & New Zealand for the forseeable future, to stop any resurgence of “the bug”.

    I imagine this sort of regional arrangement might be repeated in other places around the world. Perhaps ASEAN countries will adopt a similar coordinated approach to keep the economic engines ticking over.

  403. Iris says:

    How the H5N1 virus was engineered to cause a human pandemic.

    In 2011, a team led by virologist Ron Fouchier of Erasmus Medical Center-Netherlands, working with American funding, succeeded in engineering a H5N1 virus that could cause a human pandemic.

    The H5N1 “bird flu” virus, which had killed about six in 10 people who had gotten it—a total of at least 550 people since 2003—and had laid to waste hundreds of millions of domestic fowl and wild birds, was known to be impossible to transmit from human to human; humans who got it caught it from poultry. A H5N1 human pandemic was therefore believed to be impossible.

    Ron Fouchier proved the contrary.

    First, his team “mutated the hell out of H5N1” and looked at how readily it would bind with cells in the respiratory tract. What they found is that by giving it as few as five single mutations, the virus gained the ability to latch onto cells in the nasal and tracheal passageways. By doing so, they engineered the virus’ affinity with the human host.

    Second, they tried to get the virus to easily spread by making specific changes to its genome, using a process called reverse genetics. When that failed, they used the low-tech and time-honoured method of passing the virus from one ferret to another multiple times. After 10 generations, they succeeded and the virus became airborne, contaminating healthy ferrets kept in cages next to sick ones.

    Ferrets are the mammals that closest replicate the human pandemic reaction. Ferrets aren’t humans, but in studies to date, any influenza strain able to pass among ferrets has also been transmissible among humans, and vice versa

    The work of Ron Fouchier was funded by the US National Institute of Health. A similar experiment with conclusive results was carried in parallel at the University of Wisconsin, Madison.

    The results of this experiment were qualified as terrifying by many scientists.
    U.S. National Science Advisory Board for Biosecurity (NSABB) chair Paul Keim

    “I can’t think of another pathogenic organism that is as scary as this one,” adds Keim, who has worked on anthrax for many years. “I don’t think anthrax is scary at all compared to this.”

    Doesn’t this story sound like that of SARS-CoV-2? Speculation:

    – A Coronavirus is bio-engineered to match the genetic heritage of East Asians, and is released into the population. Because, at the time, it lacks the ability to spread easily from human to human, contamination cases are sparse and go unnoticed. (Strain A)

    – But the virus evolves by its own dynamics. By October 2019, having been passed many times over from human to human, it has acquired, on top of its affinity to East Asians, a much greater ability to spread (longer survival in airborne state). The epidemic begins in Wuhan (Strain B).

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2011/11/scientists-brace-media-storm-around-controversial-flu-studies#

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21128314-600-five-easy-mutations-to-make-bird-flu-a-lethal-pandemic/?ignored=irrelevant

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/next-influenza-pandemic/

    • Replies: @skrik
    , @skrik
  404. @skrik

    “I am not a astrophysicist.”

    That’s a major plus for your credibility (seriously).

    “I now propose to dispose of any putative ‘creator’ as a) totally unneeded…”

    … but He still loves you…

    “we cannot possibly ‘communicate’ with any deity since any such communication would entail a violation of conservation.”

    If He does violate these laws, who’s going to arrest Him?

    Meanwhile, in the world of science, laws are only “laws” until someone breaks them. But the people with vested egoes, reputations, money and political interests will do their best to destroy the law-breakers and reinstate the “laws” before anyone notices.

    Many examples even in recent history – take Dr. John Adams from New Zealand or John Bedini from the USA or Dr. T. Moran or Nikola Tesla, etc etc. The “laws of conservation of energy” would appear to only be applicable to a subset of the larger reality.

    “Q: Are you basing your red-shift arguments on Arp by any chance?”

    Never heard of him / her.

    Meanwhile, note the human trait which impels people to defend a belief even in the face of contrary information – to the point of dogmatic obstinacy.

    One example that really irks me is the nonsensical “scientific” folklore surrounding those fluffy snow-cones in space, otherwise known as “comets”. If we accept that a near-perfect vacuum exists in interplanetary space, then the idea of chunks of snow & ice floating around in that total vacuum is clearly patent nonsense. Material physics dictate that, regardless of temperature, solid or liquid water cannot exist in that environment – it will either sublimate or boil into a gaseous state and dissipate into the vastness of the interplanetary void, period.

    Nevermind that these impossible “fluffy snow cones” in the total vacuum of space apparently survive in a total vacuum and come back repeatedly, over millions of years, to give Earth a steamy spectacle again & again & again without ever depleting their miraculous reserves of snow (in the total vacuum of space). Perhaps there’s a giant Mr. Whippy van somewhere out there beyond Jupiter pumping out snow-cones for our benefit.

    Yet everyone believes this nonsense. Careers, university alumni & government grants depend on it.
    Similar story with “string theory” & etc, forever digging themselves deeper & deeper holes to substantiate theories founded on faulty premises.

    So, it’s much easier to persuade people to accept an idea, than to convince them that the idea they have accepted is faulty. I suppose that’s why the pervasive Western propaganda machinery is so aggressive – get in first to establish a narrative, so it’s much harder for an adversary to counter with the truth. That’s the pattern I see now with the false accusations being directed against China re Corona-Chan. Once people are infected with the idea that it’s all China’s fault, it’s going to be so much harder to bring the real culprits to account.

    • Replies: @utu
  405. utu says:
    @Ultrafart the Brave

    The whole cosmology is based on a very tiny fragment of cosmos in which the Doppler red shift vs. distance, i.e., the Hubble’s curve was verified for objects that are near enough to have their distance form Earth measured via parallax. Everything else is an extrapolation from that tiny fragment of space. This extrapolation is framed as the Hubble’s Law and postulated that it must be obeyed everywhere. It is safe to say that the Hubble’s Law will never be verified outside the tiny fragment where distances can be measured via parallax. So the Hubble’s Law will never be disproved (or proved) directly. For this very reason the cosmologists are in a very comfortable position as their theories as long as they contain the Hubble Law can’t be empirically challenged.

  406. skrik says:
    @utu

    Thanks for the link to Yuri Deigin analysis

    Err, thanks go not to me but to 373.790dB; I will respond there as soon as I’m more properly prepared. Thanks to you for the “read the comments” tip. rgds

  407. skrik says:
    @Ultrafart the Brave

    Again OT, but with forbearance:

    “He does not try to avoid showing that the rules are wrong; there is progress and excitement in the exact opposite. He tries to prove himself wrong as quickly as possible.
    The principle that observation is the judge …”

    As it happens, alternatives to the (invalidated) Hubble “Red Shift” theory have indeed been proposed, although that theory (and the “Big Bang” theory which derives from it) would still be invalid even without any alternative proposals

    Only hand waving. Your invalidation-proof, please, but perhaps some-where/-time else more appropriate? end of OT for me

    • Replies: @vot tak
  408. skrik says:
    @Iris

    Doesn’t this story sound like that of SARS-CoV-2?

    Yes. Then, to thoughts on how “the epidemic begins:” There are apocryphal reports of earlier extremely foul influenza-type cases from varying places around the world, including France as you relate, and the USA [like the asserted ‘vaping’ cases, say]. I noticed something interesting when looking at the primary graphic produced by the COVID-19 Genome Tracker tool; look to the upper-left corner where there is quite a big cluster of related mutations, ‘centred’ on H44. If you now click on the USA:Washington blob in the Collection Site frame, what you see is a lot right there = left top. IIRC, Washington state was one of the 1st outbreak centres in the USA. Next, note that the Haplotype closest to the bat = H13 corresponds to Forster’s A-strain. So now a thesis: Both A and B [Haplotype H1] were already ‘in hand’ in *some* lab [somewhere=currently unknown to us] and A was [accidentally/on purpose? Whatever, but prematurely] released *somewhere in USA*. Ooops! Q: What to do? A: Release a bit of A and a lot of B – in/around Wuhan. Note that one of Forster’s videos is entitled: “No proof that COVID-19 originated in Wuhan,” utube v=AQQf2yoymu0 and another is “Is Wuhan the origin of COVID-19|Dialogue between Two Scientists,” utube v=ge33OP-8rU4. Sooo, we wait, we read and we research… rgds

    • Thanks: Godfree Roberts
  409. skrik says:
    @790dB

    The inserted furin cleavage site in the genome, might well be the WTC7 smoking gun of this Corona saga

    Quite possible, and thanks again for that article from Yuri Deigu [whose ‘technology’ appears legit but opinions may vary].

    if so, Bat Woman [and] the Wuhan institute of Virology, might be the newest patsy

    Would make a certain amount of sense; kindly consider:

    Lemma: At any crime-scene, one must consider means, motive and opportunity, but a more complete list includes premeditation, presence, any modus operandi and cui bono?

    We can add a sort of ‘codicil:’ Consider the word ‘form’ [=British informal a criminal record, Aussie slang=known for doing a certain type of thing]; is there any entity which/who would be both a best-fit for the lemma *and* with form? rgds

  410. Erebus says:
    @Parfois1

    What part of “apparently” didn’t you understand?

    As for “tendentious”, I was fully aware that the author was grinding an axe, but I’m ignoring that because he makes a scientifically/logically coherent argument that RaTG13 is a fake (as in it doesn’t exist) and that its genome has been typed up to put up a fake natural antecedent for CoV-SARS-2, presumably to throw researchers off the trail of whatever was the actual antecedent.

    That’s an important argument, and the best one I’ve seen for CoV-SARS-2 being lab-made. There may well be better ones, but all I’ve read including Montagnier have been declaratory rather than analytical.

    The Nerd can grind his axe all he wants. Everyone’s grinding something, but it’s his analysis I’m interested in. I couldn’t care less whether it escaped from WIV or from the Luger Center, but it’s important (IMHO) to know if it is a lab creation.

    As for “imperilling my standing”, I care even less about that.

    • Replies: @Parfois1
  411. CNN host Chris Cuomo said on April 17 he believes there will be revelations showing the novel coronavirus was spreading in the United States as early as October.

    One question the media and other investigators ought to focus on more:
    Who was that female lab employee – the presumptive patient zero – who disappeared?

    Here is more from Daily Mail, featuring interesting information amid cautiously worded qualifiers (“believed to be”, “allegedly shows”, “appear to have been”):

    • Chinese scientists published paper saying the market doesn’t even sell the bats

    • Wuhan Institute of Virology believed to be the ‘only plausible source’ of the virus

    • Index case believed to be a female employee of the BSL-4 lab – now disappeared

    • Cell phone data analysis allegedly shows the lab suddenly shut down in October

    • Medical and scientific community increasingly suspicious of the Wuhan lab

    • Inserted sequence of nucleotides in the RNA strand ‘could not be a mutation

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8304989/The-plausible-explanation-Coronavirus-DID-leak-Wuhan-lab-Australian-expert-says.html

    Quotes:

    US-based pathologist Chris Martenson said a suspicious sequence of nucleotides in the RNA coding of the Sars-Cov-2 coronavirus appear to have been inserted as they do not occur in any of the close or even distantly related viruses.

    Even more suspicious, the nucleotide sequence appears right at a point in the RNA sequence called a furin cleavage site, a place where the enzyme furin can precisely cut proteins, he said.

  412. vot tak says:
    @skrik

    Here is a couple articles to get you started:

    Cosmologist claims Universe may not be expanding

    https://www.nature.com/news/cosmologist-claims-universe-may-not-be-expanding-1.13379

    &

    Red Shift Riddles

    http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/ce/redshift.html

    • Replies: @Olivier1973
  413. @utu

    “It is safe to say that the Hubble’s Law will never be verified outside the tiny fragment where distances can be measured via parallax.”

    It’s one of those cases from fairy-land where we say “clap if you believe”, and so they clap very very much, even in the face of conflicting information.

    The parallax problem is pretty much insurmountable – until & unless humanity extends its footprint within the solar system, in which case taking measurements from the opposite ends of, say, Uranus’ or Neptune’s orbits would take a very long time indeed (unless we triangulate the position of some probes and use them to do the measurements).

    “…the cosmologists are in a very comfortable position…”

    I believe that’s part of the problem in this case – part of the reason that the “Big Bang” theory and it’s foundation “Red Shift” theory is so damned “sticky”, harder to dislodge than “a tick in Alabama”, to quote Jesse Ventura. The whole narrative surrounding the structure of the Cosmos has been built up over the last century on the basis of this one (flawed) yardstick, so if it gets torpedoed (which it has) the whole house of cards comes tumbling down.

    As is the case for any theory, only one test of a predicted outcome has to fail for the whole theory to be discredited – and that has already happened (closer things being measured as farther away than the objects behind them). But they just won’t let it go – won’t even entertain the notion of revisiting the whole issue in an effort to resolve conflicting information.

    I suspect that a healthy skepticism of Red Shift distances might help to resolve some supposed cosmic puzzles, like how can some objects that are so unbelievably fantastically far away be emitting such stupendous amounts of energy as to rival the limits of current terrestrial computational capacity (ie, maybe they’re really not that far away after all).

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
  414. @SteveK9

    “The lack of spread in China is really curious though. They are also reporting NO cases now.”

    Ditto a whole bunch of other countries around the Western Pacific who actually LISTENED to China when it all started, and actually DID SOMETHING about it. Countries maybe not so “exceptional”, but whose governments actually give a rat’s ar*e about their people, apparently.

    “…why is LA or Chicago virtually free of the virus compared to NYC.”

    Here’s a thought – which is closer to Europe & Iran, LA or NYC?

    And which strain of Corona-Chan is more deadly, the one let loose in China or the ones let loose in Europe & Iran?

    If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck & talks like a duck…

    • Replies: @acementhead
  415. Poco says:
    @Ultrafart the Brave

    Would you please provide a list of these cancer cures?

    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
  416. @vot tak

    Thanks a lot for those links.

    The problem is not the observations, it is their interpretation. The bigbang will go with another bang.

    This suggests that the red shift may be caused by something other than the expansion of the universe, at least in part.

    Of course.

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  417. @Poco

    At risk of veering off-topic … here’s a few items worth chasing up –

    1. Graviola / Soursop / Guana Bana / Anona Muricata – South American fruit tree, in the same family as the Custard Apple, now grown around the world. Leaves contain glycoalkaloids 10,000 times more potent against cancer than the best chemotherapy drugs, with essentially no side-effects (maybe an upset tummy, and will kill off gut bacteria, so probiotics like yoghurt are recommended with it). Graviola is readily available in powdered form from herb stores.

    [MORE]

    2. Artemisia Annua / Sweet Wormwood / Sweet Annie – A Chinese mountain shrub, used traditionally as a health tonic, the source of Artemisinin, which has been used safely for decades by the WHO to treat malaria with essentially no side effects, and is now widely commercially available as a health supplement. Specifically deadly to cancer.

    3. Andrographis Paniculata – also known as the “King of Bitters”, because it is extremely bitter. Powerful anti-cancer herb, readily available as a powder from herb stores.

    4. Vitamin C – Nobel prize winning Linus Pauling long ago proved that high dose Vitamin C (Ascorbic Acid) can cure cancer. Ideally intravenous, but if not, then high oral doses (eg, 10 grams or more daily).

    5. Aloe Cure – Aloe arborescens, honey & rum – a traditional Brazilian cancer cure. Lots of information available, eg, a good description here (https://www.healingcancernaturally.com/aloe-vera-honey-rum-treatment.html ]. This can be purchased in bottles commercially, or made yourself at home if you have access to the Aloe arborescens (also known as Aloe candleabra, has bright red flowers). Aloe Vera can be used instead, but it’s only about 1/3 as potent.

    6. The Gerson Diet – Dr. Maxwell Gerson (a German immigrant to the USA) developed a strict & complete dietary protocol based around copious daily quantities of vegetable juices which cured so many terminal cancer patients, the American Medical Association drove him out of the USA. Now the Gerson Institute continues to cure terminal cancer patients in Mexico.

    7. The Budwig Protocol – Dr. Joanna Budwig (another German) developed a dietary protocol based around cottage cheese and flax seed oil, with which she cured thousands of terminal cancer patients. It sounds strange, but it has solid scientific foundations. Later research has suggested fish oil might be even better than flax seed oil.

    8. Essiac – a herbal concoction divulged by an Indian medicine man to a Canadian, Nurse Caisse (she named it after her own name, backwards). Nurse Caisse cured so many terminal cancer patients with this stuff, the Canadian government tried to shut her down. Contains burdock root, sheep sorrel, turkish rhubarb & slippery elm. Readily available commercially.

    9. Escharotics -a class of topical ointments very effective to kill skin cancers (name derived from the latin “eschar” = scab). Colloquially known as “Black Salve”. Has no effect on healthy skin, but induces immune system to attack skin cancer, which inflames, pusses up, scabs & drops off over a week or two. Been around & well understood for over a hundred years now. Made with a base of zinc chloride, plus other herbals. Very hard to get commercially because the FDA (in USA) and TGA (in Australia) have declared war on it (seriously – they will kick your doors down, shoot your dog, trash your house & throw you in jail). Be VERY CAREFUL researching this one – lots of deliberately dangerous misinformation on the web from government, Big Pharma and paid stooges. Also FDA-staged fake products on the market – eg, CanCell, Cantron, Entelev, etc.

    10. Very good information website – (http://www.altcancer.com/cansema.htm ]. Run by a top-class herbalist, Greg Caton, whose original operation in Florida was raided and trashed by shotgun-toting storm-troopers from the FDA (true story). They threw him into prison for a few years, and after getting out he moved to South America to continue his practice (Columbia, I think, from memory). I read that he was subsequently put on the Interpol “most wanted” list courtesy of the FDA (alongside international terrorists & mass-murderers), and was extra-territorially & illegally kidnapped back to the USA by a bunch of FBI goons. The FDA really really doesn’t like this herbalist, because his anti-cancer herbs actually work.

    Anyway, some topics to investigate – hope it helps.

    And just to give the appearance of being on-topic… if Corona-Chan responds to anti-Malaria treatments, then I suggest consideration of the inexpensive and readily available health supplement, Artemisinin, which has a multi-decade track record of completely safe use by the WHO.

    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
  418. @Ultrafart the Brave

    Just an amendment to the prior post, Para 10. — Greg Caton moved his operations (“Alpha Omega Labs”) from the USA to Ecuador, not Columbia. Website home – (http://www.altcancer.com ].

  419. @Ultrafart the Brave

    … if it gets torpedoed (which it has) …

    Would you tell me where to read more?

    My astrophysical questions are off-topic so I shall avoid asking them here, but if you linked answers elsewhere I would gladly follow your link.

    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
  420. @Olivier1973

    and @vot tak Look you guys, when the term ‘big bang’ was first used it was in the context of ‘its not like the universe started with a big bang, or anything’ (words to that effect). No sooner were the words out of Edwin Hubble’s mouth, that Christian scientists seized on the term and used it as ‘a proof’ of a Creator/Supreme Being, i.e. someone/something had to set the whole show in motion. And, I say this as a person of faith.

    The ‘Big Bang’ is a working hypothesis, just as the Steady State is also a working hypothesis. Hypothetically, isn’t it as valid to believe that the Universe expands and contracts, just as our own lungs expand (to inhale) and contract (to exhale) and at this point in human history, we are simply in an expansionary phase?

    But this is off topic and a distraction. It’s always worthwhile remembering, if they (the Cabal, as we call them) can get you asking the wrong questions – they never have to worry about answers!

    Cheers.

    • Replies: @vot tak
  421. vot tak says:

    Men’s Blood Contains High Levels of Enzyme That Helps COVID-19 Infect Cells – Study

    https://sputniknews.com/science/202005111079275898-mens-blood-contains-high-levels-of-enzyme-that-helps-covid-19-infect-cells—study/

    “A new study published in the European Heart Journal on Monday has provided scientific evidence that men have higher concentrations of ACE2 in their blood than women. ACE2, which is found in organs such as the heart, kidney, intestines and others, is the receptor required for cellular entry of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19.

    While the ACE2 receptor is normally helpful to the human body, as it stabilizes one’s blood pressure and regulates blood vessel dilation, it is also the target of SARS-CoV-2’s spike protein. Once the spike protein has attached itself to the receptor, the novel coronavirus is able to invade the human cell and infect an individual.

    “When we found that one of the strongest biomarkers, ACE2, was much higher in men than in women, I realised that this had the potential to explain why men were more likely to die from COVID-19 than women,” said Iziah Sama, a doctor at University Medical Center (UMC) Groningen who co-led the study.

    Findings from the recent study further advanced scientists’ presumption that the ACE2 is a key component to how COVID-19, the respiratory disease caused by the novel coronavirus, creeps to the lungs.

    “ACE2 is a receptor on the surface of cells. It binds to the coronavirus and allows it to enter and infect healthy cells after it has been modified by another protein on the surface of the cell, called TMPRSS2,” explained Dr. Adriaan Voors, a professor of cardiology at UMC Groningen who led the study. “High levels of ACE2 are present in the lungs and, therefore, it is thought to play a crucial role in the progression of lung disorders related to COVID-19.”

    The study, which relied on blood samples from several thousand participants, also found that heart failure patients prescribed drugs that target the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system, like angiotensin-converting enzyme (ACE) inhibitors or angiotensin receptor blockers (ARBs), did not have higher concentrations of ACE2 in their blood.

    “ACE inhibitors and ARBs are widely prescribed to patients with congestive heart failure, diabetes or kidney disease,” Reuters noted.

    “Our findings do not support the discontinuation of these drugs in COVID-19 patients as has been suggested by earlier reports,” explained Voors.”

  422. @V. K. Ovelund

    Can’t find the original reference to multiple items not being where the “Red Shift” says they should be (was years ago now) but here’s an item that mentions one convincing case – (https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2013/03/28/redshifts-and-microwaves/
    ].
    Also [ vot tak ] posted some good links on the issues back up there at post # 418.

  423. vot tak says:
    @Patagonia Man

    “No sooner were the words out of Edwin Hubble’s mouth, that Christian scientists seized on the term and used it as ‘a proof’ of a Creator/Supreme Being, i.e. someone/something had to set the whole show in motion.”

    Actually, it was the other way around. The big bang theory originated with a Christian astronomer. One Georges Lemaître, who was also a priest interested in “harmonizing” science with his Catholic religion’s teachings/worldview. He first postulated the idea in the 1920’s. Hubble may not have ever come around to accepting the theory of an expanding universe (big bang). In 1941 he stated he didn’t think it was expanding. Though he may have changed his mind on that later in his life. Regarding Hubble, this link shows a newspaper article where he refutes the theory dated from 1941:

    Hubble: No Evidence of ‘Big Bang’ Theory

    https://ladailymirror.com/2011/12/31/hubble-no-evidence-of-big-bang-theory/

    Cheers.

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  424. Parfois1 says:
    @Erebus

    The Nerd can grind his axe all he wants. Everyone’s grinding something, but it’s his analysis I’m interested in.

    The wording you used to introduce the report suggested (to me anyway then) that you were backing its conclusions. I might have been “hasty” (I had minutes before “dismissed” someone proposing some claptrap theory) and apologise for that. To tell the truth, I thought then you had “sold out” and I was truly shocked.

    • Replies: @skrik
    , @Erebus
  425. skrik says:
    @Parfois1

    Seems to me, that “PRRA” is the key [indepedently ‘discovered’ at my #307 above] = proof of CoV-SARS-2 being lab-made. Both Nerd and Deigin may well be propagandists – both attempting ‘bullshit baffles the brain’ diversions. People are still dying gruesome deaths. Q: Who can you trust? rgds

    PS ‘To whom it may concern,’ IMHO Half Back had it correct: “Daily Mail is the PR outlet of MI6”

    PPS These [bio-warfare?] P4 labs etc. supposedly exist to produce solutions to protect us, we the people. Q: Where are our solutions?

    • Agree: Patagonia Man
  426. skrik says:
    @skrik

    In case it is not clear, “PRRA” = pure malevolence. Q: Who has ‘form?’

  427. Jazman says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    It is so funny reading western prediction and media BS they always fail 🙂

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
  428. @vot tak

    Thanks for that link.

    Yes, I know the hypothesis was posited earlier by Lemaître, but it was Hubble who actually voiced the words “big bang”. That is the historical conversation I’m referring to.

    I’m all for unifying science with mysticism (not religion) as I’m also all for unifying Relativity Theory with Quantum Physics, in a Theory of Everything, so the only reason I raised it is, there are problems with the Expanding Universe hypothesis – but its off topic re: this excellent article.

    Regards

  429. @skrik

    If I may add to that, the intel agencies quite intentionally feed disinfo to outlets like the Daily Mail, to continually promote the polarization of people in society, i.e., divide et impera (divide and conquer) by keeping us arguing about different details/spins we’ve read on different outlets and to maintain the status quo.

    There’s the infamous case of the Zinoviev Letter, a fraudulent document published by the UK’s Daily Mail 4 days before the UK General Election in October 1924. The letter was supposedly a “directive” from the head of the USSR’s Communist International (Comintern), Grigory Zinoviev, to the Communist Party of Great Britain, ordering it to engage in seditious activities. It said the resumption of diplomatic relations (by a UK Labor government) would hasten the radicalization of the working class in Britain. It was thought by many that, if true, this would’ve been major meddling in UK elections (sound familiar?), and so offended a lot of British voters, turning them against the UK’s Labor Party. The letter aided the Conservatives, aka Tories, by hastening the collapse of the Liberal Party vote, resulting in an election landslide for the Tories. To some in the media, the letter was claimed to be authentic, but historians now agree it was a fraud.

    See how long this has been going on for now? The Cabal is well versed in these kinds of tactics.

    • Thanks: Parfois1
  430. @denk

    AF447

    AF 447 was 100% due to the interaction of incompetent pilots(the two F/Os) with incompetent aircraft design that is inherently unsafe and should never have been permitted. The Scarebus teaches its pilots every day to not be able to fly.

    Every other transport aircraft has a yoke that is visible to everyone on the flight deck. Airbus has a stupid little sidestick that is not visible at all except to the pilot holding it. That means that an incompetent pilot can misapply control inputs and the other pilots can not see that that is happening. That is exactly what happened on AF447.

    And no it is not Boeing versus Airbus, it is Airbus versus every other transport aircraft constructor ever.

  431. @Ultrafart the Brave

    Countries maybe not so “exceptional”, but whose governments actually give a rat’s ar*e about their people, apparently.

    No. The New Zealand Government is a lunatic left-wing minority government lead by a breathtakingly stupid young woman prime minister. The whole government is by far the stupidest in the history of New Zealand.

    The lunatic left decided to “save” a few hundred(at the most) old decrepit lives(they are not saved their deaths are deferred a year or two at the most) at the expense of destroying the lives of hundreds of thousands and immiserating hundreds of thousands more.

    Measuring “deaths” is not the proper metric . What should be looked at is Quality Adjusted Life Years. New Zealand, in the long run, is going to lose orders of magnitude more QALY from the destruction of the economy than would have been lost by much more targeted actions.

    Economic damage causes misery and early death.

    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
    , @Biff
  432. skrik says:
    @Iris

    G’day again.

    The results of this experiment were qualified as terrifying by many scientists

    The experimenting obviously continued – by ever-more ‘clever’ idiots, one supposes [= spiral-down?] Following my 307 above, I went back today to the ‘HIV-insertions’ paper. Their methodology included MultiAlin software, so I tested that to check on my 307 work, then duplicated part of the HIV-insertions work. Here is part of the results, in reverse-order:

    [SARS coronavirus GZ02 vs CoV2]
    [RaTG13 vs CoV2]
    The latter shows something new to me [i.e. as non-geneticist], namely not all the differences I found by ‘character by character’ comparison are significant. [Consensus symbols: !, $, %, #]. Oh, well.

    One reason the HIV-insertions paper has been ‘dismissed’ by whatever ‘authority’ could be that SARS CoV2 is unlikely to have ‘evolved’ from the 1st SARS, since it is generally accepted that SARS-1 ‘jumped’ from Civets and SARS-2 ‘jumped’ from bats. But nevertheless, the HIV-insertions were not challenged by the ‘debunk’ paper, only the interpretations. While we’re here, note that insert 4 is the “PRRA” I noticed, as did Nature and Deigin [among hordes, one imagines], recognised as a furin cleavage site = gain-of-function!

    One imagines that mutations are random, but the differences between RaTG13 vs CoV2 are a) scattered and b) grouped. It remains for me to try to identify where the 6 and 9 groupings I noticed may have originated – don’t know quite how, just now. rgds

    • Replies: @Parfois1
  433. @acementhead

    “The lunatic left decided to “save” a few hundred(at the most) old decrepit lives(they are not saved their deaths are deferred a year or two at the most) at the expense of destroying the lives of hundreds of thousands and immiserating hundreds of thousands more.”

    Strangely enough, I generally agree with your sentiment. The Australian casualties have mostly been people in their 80s or 90s. Certainly they deserve our best efforts at protection, but could it have been done at less overall cost to society?

    It probably would have been far wiser to identify and target vulnerable groups for protection (elderly, immune compromised, etc) and “lock them down”. And let the rest of society go about their business. In hindsight, that would have been the more sensible approach.

    The problem, with all the over-hyped hysteria, is not knowing the true character of Corona-Chan in advance. Highly contagious, yes, that seems to be confirmed. Super deadly? Not so much, at least not in the Western Pacific nations. It begs the question, just how many versions of these bugs were let loose, and how many are being held in reserve?. Is that something we should be worried about, with all the media hyping of the “second wave”?

    Anyway, seeing as how we’re not being given much choice about “playing the game”, at least Australia & New Zealand are so far looking like the best-placed coutries in the Western world to eventually crawl our way back out of this mess.

    • Agree: Parfois1
  434. Parfois1 says:
    @skrik

    PPS These [bio-warfare?] P4 labs etc. supposedly exist to produce solutions to protect us, we the people. Q: Where are our solutions?

    Very insightful, thanks. I did notice that the supposed objective of those biological labs is, using the Pentagon’s lingo, ” countering the threat of biological agents”. To that end and effect, they have to produce the means to combat those threats, such as the antidotes or vaccines. All that is legit and to protect the population. Or, is it?

    Yes, it would be legit, but only if that “threat” is a real threat. But, is it? The first question about a “real threat” is: does it exist? Is anyone producing or likely to produce it to harm us? If not, is it possible and viable to “counter all possible threats”? No. Therefore someone within the “countering the threat” Establishment decides to select a “threat”, not because it exists or is likely to exist, but for some other purposes, such as the putative “reduction of the biological threat” by producing the “counterthreat”. But that requires producing the “threatening” thing itself first. So, in order to produce the antidote, they are “legitimately” producing the bugs.

    Once they produce the bug, they have the basis for researching the counterbug, the vaccine. They do the usual lab tests and come up with a, supposedly, specimen bugkiller or vaccine to protect the population and do further testing on rats and bats. But then comes the big question: will it work on humans? How can we (the biolabs) find out? While at it, what objectives/purposes can we use the new “invention” for? (Remember the Manhattan Project testing; Bikini, Marshall Islands, Hiroshima, etc.? )

    Except that, once the bug was created, they neglected (as Skrik observed) the ostensible primary reason for the project: the “countering of the threat”, perhaps leaving that field for Big Pharma to come in later and make a killing, pardon the pun.

    (Sorry about the peripatetic rumbling “dialogue” to reach the all too obvious conclusion but I wanted a step-by-step reasoning to show the fallacious argument usedby the Establishment to justify its evildoings).

    • Replies: @skrik
  435. Parfois1 says:
    @skrik

    @skrik

    All I can do is to cheer you on on your quest for the “holy grail” of a smoking gun or to unmask the pseudo-experts who try to fudge interpretations out of gobbledygook to impress the uninitiated into the arcane science of digital necromancy.

    I look at the big picture and the forest, the trees being mere accidence and detail in the landscape. Yet I recognize that a single tree may hold the key to one’s understanding of the whole, but deciphering a pandemic secret out of invisible matter to the naked eye is mind boggling. Cheers and good luck.

  436. skrik says:
    @Parfois1

    a step-by-step reasoning to show the fallacious argument used by the Establishment to justify its evil doings

    Ah; understood, except that I’d insert “trying to” in front of “to justify.” A looong time ago now, I had trust in our local PFBC [publicly financed broadcaster]; the ‘crux’ arrived in two parts, 1) prologue = they informed us that the aggressive ’67 war by the pseudo ‘state’ illegitimately occupying Palestine against its neighbours was “little David bravely confronting the encroaching ugly Arabs” then later 2) epilogue = me realising the actual ‘truth of the matter’ [thanks mainly to the internet]. The PFBC had told us *filthy* lies.

    So yes; it’s what they [= our rulers] do [= mass-murdering, etc.], not what they say that counts; the latter I call the Bernays haze. You may have heard of one of Bernays’ famous stunts [= ‘torches of freedom’], but this is the pivotal quote:

    “The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society.”

    There is a lie in there, surrounding “must cooperate” – it’s simply not true – but worst: “an invisible government.” The latter is what is termed ‘deep state’ tyranny; the foul, unelected and criminal puppet-string manipulators [= our rulers]…

    One may think, surrounding our ‘city on a hill’ [everywhere in ‘the West’] that ‘fair and cost-effective’ would dominate as SOP but no; ‘top-down,’ mainly mafia methods obtain. Which is a long way of saying “I think I know who did the dastardly deed[s].”

    Apropo “PRRA,” my adopted motif towards an investigation of any SARS-CoV2 who/how [which can’t be restricted to, let alone targeted upon China], I found a couple of new scientific papers:

    Publication: A novel bat coronavirus reveals natural insertions at the S1/S2 cleavage site of the Spike protein and a possible recombinant origin of HCoV-19

    Publication: Synonymous mutations and the molecular evolution of SARS-Cov-2 origins

    A quote that might make some go “hmmm:”

    “Finally, we estimate that the time to the most recent common ancestor of SARS-CoV-2 and RaTG13 or RmYN02 based on synonymous divergence, is 51.71 years (95% C.I., 28.11-75.31) and 37.02 years (95% C.I., 18.19-55.85), respectively.”

    They both reference a possible candidate closer to SARS-CoV2 [=Wuhan-Hu-1 in NCBI] than RaTG13, namely RmYN02 – but I can’t find that in any genome database known to me. Again, I come to a screeching halt. rgds

    • Replies: @Erebus
  437. Azesus says:

    All political theater media warfare to find excuse place blame, I am still waiting for evidence Iraq WMD

    • Agree: Iris
  438. Biff says:
    @acementhead

    Economic damage causes misery and early death.

    Yes, the “war on terror” took out a lot of Americans..

  439. Erebus says:
    @Parfois1

    … I was truly shocked.

    Rumours of my having “sold out” are greatly exaggerated (w/ apologies to M. Twain), but I can see why you may have thought so. Sorry ’bout that.

    FWIW, I think it looks more & more like Strain A has been circulating for a very long time, but we’re far from concluding from whence it came, or even where/when it mutated into Strain B and took off. The enormous variation in COVID-19’s presentation and outcomes in patients, the equally enormous variation in national outcomes, the startling speed with which it popped up in far-flung sectors of the globe, the lack of a clear progenitor and above all, the lack of data complicate the issue far beyond the analytical powers of laymen such as myself.

    Judging from what I’ve read and especially from what I’ve heard, it feels like we’re dealing with more than 1 virus, or perhaps a viral “partnership” wherein 2 or more viruses get together in some patients, but not in others. The mind boggles, but I have the same “gut feel” as I did with the B737MAX – there’s more than 1 thing in play here.

    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
  440. @Erebus

    …”there’s more than 1 thing in play here.”

    At a glance, from a global (geographic) perspective, there appear to be at least 3 dominant bug strains on the loose.

    #1 – The Western Pacific region seems to have a very contagious but not-so-deadly bug on the loose. So far, cumulative death rate seems to be around 0.0005% of total population(s).

    #2 – Middle East (specifically, Iran) was apparently hit with a very nasty bug which killed off a bunch of their senior politicians (funny???), although Iran seems to have gotten the situation under control, even in the midst of genocidal sanctions by the exceptional nation.

    #3 – Europe appears to have caught the worst strain of the bug, with cumulative death rate so far very roughly about 0.05% of total population(s), ie, about 100 times more deadly impact than the Western Pacific bug.

    As for the exceptional nation, it might have got some “blowback”* from Europe on it’s eastern seaboard, and from China on it’s Western coast. Hence the different virulence from west to east USA.

    *Whether deliberately deployed or accidental, both Taiwanese and Japanese geneticists have reportedly fingered the USA as the source of the bug. The trickle of revelations suggesting discovery of earlier and earlier (eg, early 2019) misdiagnosed cases of Corona-Chan in the USA support that position.

    From an armchair analyst’s view, the situations across Africa and South America aren’t so clear yet (though Brazil is allegedly not doing so well so far).

    So is this all a deliberate scheme unfolding? There are too many uncomfortable synchronicities (eg, Event 201, Kermit the Gates’ ready-made global “solution”, the global village of covert American biolabs, the curious initial outbreaks in America’s most hated adversaries, etc etc etc) to discount the notion.

  441. Erebus says:
    @skrik

    They both reference a possible candidate closer to SARS-CoV2 [=Wuhan-Hu-1 in NCBI] than RaTG13, namely RmYN02 – but I can’t find that in any genome database known to me.

    If RmYN02 can’t be found in any database, and RaTG13 can’t be found except in a database (no known physical virus), then SARS-CoV2 remains an orphan, with no known progenitors.

    That elicits an even louder “hmmm”, at least from me.

    • Replies: @skrik
  442. vot tak says:

    Forget figures, American views of Covid-19 reflect media narratives, with deep partisan divide – but unity against China

    https://www.rt.com/usa/489401-partisan-divide-coronavirus-america/

    “Americans are sharply divided about almost every aspect of the coronavirus pandemic, except for overwhelming mistrust of information coming from China, a new poll shows, aligning with the mainstream media coverage of the outbreak.”

    While the poll is probably skewed to reflect the zionazi-gay psywar and reinforce it, one thing is quite clear of the results:

    That americans are incredibly stupid and conformist. While this is something I noticed even as a kid, it never ceases to amaze me how seemingly normal people can be so indoctrinated and totally incapable of rational intelligent thought.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  443. skrik says:
    @Erebus

    That elicits an even louder “hmmm”, at least from me

    G’day, recall that any most recent common ancestor for RaTG13 or RmYN02 lies 51.71 years or 37.02 years respectively in the past and that Covid-19 has PRRA as a *unique* insertion, then try the ‘Most recent answer’ = 19th May, 2020 here:

    The unique insert in SARS-Cov2 is not a mutation and is not present in most closely related corona viruses. However, similar polybasic cleavage sites (for furin and other human proteases) are well known in numerous other viruses and its cleavage is essential for infection

    [my bolding] The genome sequence for RmYN02 / EPI_ISL_412977 is in GISAID; they won’t allow me access but it’s most probably a blind alley anyway, given “unique insert.” Some criminally bad agent put PRRA in there; anyone likely demonstrated such form? rgds

    • Replies: @Erebus
  444. Erebus says:
    @skrik

    Thanks for that.

    The unique insert in SARS-Cov2 is not a mutation and is not present in most closely related corona viruses.

    If I read that right, it suggests rather strongly that CoV-SARS-2 is a chimera. No?

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @skrik
  445. Iris says:
    @Erebus

    Hi Erebus, Skirk;
    Here is an interesting interview of Wuhan Insitute of Virology’s Director, where she explains:

    we got the genome sequence of the RaTG-13 but we didn’t isolate nor obtain the live virus of RaTG-13. Thus, there is no possibility of us leaking RaTG-13.

    She states no further research was done on RaTG-13 by Pr Shi Zhengli’s team because they were focused on SARS, which virus bears only 80% similarity with SARS-C0V-2.

    Finally, she logically and rationally insists on the importance of identifying the mutation path. A short but valuable interview. Best.

    Director of Wuhan Institute of Virology says ‘let science speak’

    https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-05-23/Exclusive-with-head-of-Wuhan-Institute-of-Virology-Let-science-speak-QJeOjOZt4Y/index.html

  446. Seraphim says:
    @vot tak

    It became a truism to invoke the observations made in the classic ‘Democracy in America’ (Volume 1, Part 2, Chapter 7, “Of the Omnipotence of the Majority in the United States and Its Effects”) of Alexis de Tocqueville, written only 60 years after the establishment of USA:

    “I do not know any country where, in general, less independence of mind and genuine freedom of discussion reign than in America.”
    He elaborated :
    “Not only is common opinion the sole guide that remains for individual reason among democratic peoples; but it has an infinitely greater power among these peoples than among any other. In times of equality because of their similarity, men have no faith in one another, but this same similarity gives them an almost unlimited trust in the judgment of the public, for it does not seem plausible to them that when all have the same enlightenment, truth is not found on the side of the greatest number.… In the United States, the majority takes charge of furnishing individuals with a host of ready-made opinions, and it thus relieves them of the obligation to form their own. There are a great number of theories on matters of philosophy, morality, or politics that everyone thus adopts without examination, on the faith of the public”.
    It is systemic and ineradicable. The ‘normal people’ are systemically incapable of rational, intelligent, critical thought.

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @vot tak
  447. skrik says:
    @Erebus

    it suggests rather strongly that CoV-SARS-2 is a chimera

    Well, I just don’t know [yet?] Here is an article from 22Jun’10, including ‘the bat-woman’ [Zhengli Shi/Shi ZhengLi] as one author, including discussion of a chimera, here is ‘more of the same’ from 11Jul’09. But consider that a chimera = {Biology; an organism containing a mixture of genetically different tissues, formed by processes such as fusion of early embryos, grafting, or mutation.} Under discussion here is the presence of the furin cleavage-target PRRA sequence, specifically at the critical S1/S2 junction. As an ‘informed amateur guess,’ I would say that it is highly/most likely that the PRRA sequence was deliberately inserted using some strictly human-directed GMO-manipulation technique [with malice aforethought]. My reasoning here is that a chimera could possibly occur ‘naturally’ if some cell(s) were infected with two different viruses at the same time, say, and any recombination would likely be rather random OR by some human-mediated manipulation [IF so in both cases THEN the blast-detectives should have identified the fused components by now BUT not so far, except the odd-few alleged HIV-bits in the spike, paper withdrawn] – but with SARS-CoV2, the PRRA has been ‘shoved in’ *precisely* where it needs to be, aka it can hardly be a coincidence.

    Re: Iris’ cited interview, the anti-Cs would say ‘the Cs would have to say that,’ but on the principle of ‘one can’t disprove a negative,’ what the anti-Cs want WIV to disprove is the negative that a) WIV *didn’t* have SARS-CoV2 [including PRRA] ‘ready to go’ then b) WIV *didn’t* release it [accidentally the absolute least likely – given the designed-in lethality]. The ‘circumstantial evidence’ is that WIV was working on such therefore WIV must be guilty = fallacious.

    Let’s look at it in a different way; 1) the overwhelming majority of ‘West’ plus ‘East’ MSM stories claim that SARS-CoV2 is ‘natural,’ the *surest* sign that it’s *not*, aka it’s human-made.

    2) IF the ‘West’ had conclusive evidence that the ‘East’ was at fault THEN we’d already be deep into a hot war.

    3) No hot war = the ‘East’ is not at fault. rgds

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Erebus
  448. Iris says:
    @skrik

    Completely agree with your comment. Western MSM’s adamant stance that the virus BOTH accidentally escaped from Wuhan Virology Lab AND was of completely natural origin is yet another case of bizarrely affirmed chain rule probability combining two unknowns, which indicates, more than anything else, the cognitive dissonance impairing its proponents.

    East and West disagree on everything but the natural origin of SARS-CoV-2, China because they dread US reactions, the US because they were involved in the virus’ genesis in the first place.

    • Replies: @skrik
  449. skrik says:
    @Iris

    China because they dread US reactions

    Of course, and not only China but dread of US by any who might dare to not abjectly, grovellingly submit to the self-appointed world-hegemon. Then, I’d say China, by seemingly ‘agreeing’ to a ‘natural’ SARS-CoV-2 origin is consciously, publicly offering the US a ‘way out’ from the ‘alternate hypothesis’ = both non-Chinese PRRA-addition & non-Chinese deliberate release [this not to excuse/ignore any (((‘rabid contributing factor’)))]. As general support to the argument, consider two co-victim nations, Iran and Russia. rgds

  450. Erebus says:
    @Seraphim

    Thanks for exhuming de Tocqueville’s poignant observations. Obviously, little has changed in the intervening centuries.

    Arguably, what de Tocqueville noted did much to augment America’s unity and its rise to a global power. The world turns, and it’s now doing much to hasten its decline/collapse.

  451. Erebus says:
    @skrik

    Under discussion here is the presence of the furin cleavage-target PRRA sequence, specifically at the critical S1/S2 junction. As an ‘informed amateur guess,’ I would say that it is highly/most likely that the PRRA sequence was deliberately inserted using some strictly human-directed GMO-manipulation technique [with malice aforethought].

    I agree that the statistical odds of a complete sequence inserting itself at a critical point in the genome in nature are doubtless vanishingly small. Sorta like clearing a 1 light-year sized pool table.

    The “malice aforethought” conjecture is an overlay that obscures. The PRRA insertion may have been done for quite legitimate, if dangerous research purposes. Of course, if it was subsequently released intentionally, the malice aforethought would be patent, but even if it was released unintentionally and then treated as a geo-political “opportunity” to harm a rival, the post-facto malice would be equally patent.

    In either case, it was a spectacular own goal in the last minute of play. The strike was parried. The blowback wasn’t. The clock goes on ticking…

    Thanks (to you and Iris) for bringing those articles to our attention.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  452. vot tak says:
    @Seraphim

    “I do not know any country where, in general, less independence of mind and genuine freedom of discussion reign than in America.”

    Agree with AdT there. The usa has always been very conformist. Where I don’t agree is blaming democracy for it. In my opinion the pindo conformity is more due to the types of people who moved there and their values. These were not deep thinkers. They were for the most part very repressive religious nutters and those who were very greedy. The democracy aspect of the usa is mostly advertisement to mislead. The usa is, and was from the beginning, an oligarchy. The press served the interests of those with the money, the land and the largest businesses. With both leadership and media enforcing conformism and a general population prone to either repressive views and making money at their neighbors’ expense, the lack independent thinking in america is the logical result. This is why america remains a very rightwing country.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  453. vot tak says:

    ‘Pure fabrication’: Head of Wuhan lab DENIES claims virus leaked from there, says ‘we didn’t even know it existed’

    https://www.rt.com/news/489610-wuhan-lab-chief-coronavirus/

    “Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) director Wang Yanyi described the theory – that SARS-CoV-2 was a creature of her laboratory – as “pure fabrication.” She explained that the institute was effectively caught off-guard when learning about the newly discovered contagion.

    “Our institute first received the clinical sample of unknown pneumonia on December 30 last year,” she recalled, in an interview to China’s CGTN news outlet. Shortly after this, Beijing alerted the World Health Organization to the virus, just as media reports started circulating of the first Wuhan residents being hospitalized with fever and lung failure.

    Before that, Wang insisted, the institute neither had any knowledge of SARS-CoV-2, nor had it encountered, researched or stored it. “In fact, like everyone else, we didn’t even know the virus existed,” she stated.

    How could it have leaked from our lab when we never had it?

    Wang confirmed the institute had done work on three live strains of a bat coronavirus, but their genome was different from that the one causing Covid-19.

    One such strain has a 96-percent similarity to the regular SARS virus, whereas “their highest similarity to SARS-CoV-2 only reaches 79.8 percent.” But under the standards of virology studies, even the tiniest percentage gap makes a huge difference, Wang explained.

    “In the natural world, it takes a long period of time for a virus to naturally evolve and mutate to become SARS-CoV-2,” the virologist revealed. She invoked “the current consensus of the international academic community” that Covid-19 originated from wild animals. Now it’s up to researchers to dig deeper into its origins “based on scientific data and facts.”

    • Replies: @skrik
  454. @Erebus

    “In either case, it was a spectacular own goal in the last minute of play. The strike was parried. The blowback wasn’t. The clock goes on ticking…”

    The issue of “the blowback” screams for further analysis, IMO. If for example the virus was released in the U.S. some time in 2019 (either accidentally or on purpose) and by late summer had likely spread around the country, and the “government” wanted to cover it up by blaming it on China, then accepting a certain amount of blowback damage would seem to be necessary. Thus infected or potentially infected travelers would have to be admitted to cover up the fact that that the virus was already here. This could explain the U.S. government’s lackadaisical initial response. IOW Trump’s failure to take prudent action and his early dismissive rhetoric were part of a calculated effort to hide behind a facade of “incompetence” similar to what was done regarding the 9/11 cover-up.

    My present view is that the virus was released in the U.S. and the U.S. “government” knowingly sent infected personnel to Wuhan to participate in the world military games, hoping that the virus would spread around China, causing massive economic damage and political instability, ultimately stopping China’s rise to global power. But when the attack didn’t go as planned due to China’s quick and decisive response, the attackers had to change their plans by exacerbating and emphasizing the blowback damage, so as to rally the people against the new enemy du jour, which it could then confront as the aggrieved party.

  455. Erebus says:

    Well, that sounds a lot more like synthesis than analysis, but sure, as likely a hypothetical scenario as any other.

    Further to your Wuhan Games idea, using the Games’ 10,000 international participants to spread it quickly around the world may have been even more important. Bringing allies and neutrals on board the “Chinadunnit” meme would greatly further the geo-political goal of splitting the world back into 2 armed camps and the worse they got it, the more likely they are to come on board.

    The blowback under that scenario is that the US’ incompetence lost control of their “controlled blowback” and undermined their own meme.

  456. Seraphim says:
    @vot tak

    American oligarchy is not an aristocracy. It is a product of the ‘tyranny of the majority’ which is the essence of egalitarianist ‘democracy’, installed in America from the beginning by the ‘religious nutters’.
    De Tocqueville had more penetrating insights. Of course, you have to go through the whole analysis that he makes of this ‘democracy’.
    “But not only fortunes are equal in America; to a certain degree, equality extends to minds themselves.
    I do not think there is any country in the world where, in proportion to the population, there exist so small a number of ignorant and fewer learned men than in America.
    There primary education is available to every one; higher education is hardly available to anyone…
    Nearly all Americans live comfortably; so they can easily gain the primary elements of human knowledge.
    In America, there are few rich and the rich do not form a class apart. The consequences of this fact in relation to education are of several kinds. Nearly all Americans need to have an occupation. Now, every occupation requires an apprenticeship. So Americans can devote only the first years of life to general cultivation of the mind; at age fifteen, they begin a career; most often, therefore, their education concludes when ours begins. If pursued further, it is directed only toward a specialized and lucrative field; they study a field of knowledge in the way they prepare for a trade; and they take only the applications recognized to have immediate utility.
    In America, most of the rich began by being poor; nearly all the men of leisure were busy men in their youth. The result is that when they could have the taste for study, they do not have the time to devote themselves to it; and when they have gained the time, they no longer have the taste.
    So in America no class exists that honors intellectual work and in which the penchant for intellectual pleasures is handed down with affluence and hereditary leisure. Both the will and the power to devote oneself to this work are therefore missing.
    In America a certain middling level of human knowledge is established. All minds have approached it; some by rising, others by falling. So you meet a great multitude of individuals who have about the same number of notions in matters of religion, history, the sciences, political economy, legislation, and government.
    Intellectual inequality comes directly from God, and man cannot prevent it from always reappearing.
    But it follows, at least from what we have just said, that minds, while still remaining unequal as the Creator intended, find equal means at their disposal. Thus, today in America, the aristocratic element, always feeble
    since its birth, is, if not destroyed, at least weakened further; so it is difficult to assign it any influence whatsoever in the course of public affairs.
    Time, events, and the laws have, on the contrary, made the democratic element not only preponderant but also, so to speak, unique. No family or group influence can be seen; often not even an individual influence, no
    matter how ephemeral, can be found”.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  457. skrik says:
    @vot tak

    Now it’s up to researchers to dig deeper into its origins “based on scientific data and facts”

    Indeed, but I’m supposing that most of that work has already been done [with reports slow to emerge; do we wonder why?] This post would presumably also interest Iris and Erebus [and apologies for being a bit ‘en retard’], but I’ve just reached 68.Ano4 on Ron’s “What Google … The American Deep State Strikes Back” where Ano4 cites:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/health/tracing-origins-covid-19

    Quote: “There is no credible scientific evidence that the furin polybasic cleavage site evolved naturally, although the methods for artificially inserting such cleavage sites are well-established.”

    Of course, the “furin polybasic cleavage site” = PRRA. rgds

    • Thanks: Iris
    • Replies: @Erebus
  458. @Seraphim

    “American oligarchy is not an aristocracy. It is a product of the ‘tyranny of the majority’ which is the essence of egalitarianist ‘democracy;, installed in America from the beginning by the ‘religious nutters’.”

    No it isn’t (not anymore at least); rather, it’s judeo-communist dictatorship masquerading as a democratic republic.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  459. Erebus says:
    @skrik

    Thanks for that.

    Indeed, but I’m supposing that most of that work has already been done [with reports slow to emerge; do we wonder why?]

    I suspect that the work had been done very early in the developments in China. That is, they realized some time in the first 2 weeks of January that there was a high probability it was man-made, and with the ramifications unknown but likely bad took dramatic action.

    • Agree: skrik
  460. Seraphim says:
    @Harold Smith

    It never was, or at least it was a very thin social layer (in colonial times) which succumbed quickly to the ‘tyranny of the majority’ of the ‘We the people of the United States’ enshrined in the ‘Constitution of the United States’, handing in all the privileges that make possible the existence of an aristocracy. Oligarchy is not another name for aristocracy, they are two distinct things.

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