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Lies, the Bethlehem Doctrine, and the Illegal Murder of Soleimani
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In one of the series of blatant lies the USA has told to justify the assassination of Soleimani, Mike Pompeo said that Soleimani was killed because he was planning “Imminent attacks” on US citizens. It is a careful choice of word. Pompeo is specifically referring to the Bethlehem Doctrine of Pre-Emptive Self Defence.

Developed by Daniel Bethlehem when Legal Adviser to first Netanyahu’s government and then Blair’s, the Bethlehem Doctrine is that states have a right of “pre-emptive self-defence” against “imminent” attack. That is something most people, and most international law experts and judges, would accept. Including me.

What very few people, and almost no international lawyers, accept is the key to the Bethlehem Doctrine – that here “Imminent” – the word used so carefully by Pompeo – does not need to have its normal meanings of either “soon” or “about to happen”. An attack may be deemed “imminent”, according to the Bethlehem Doctrine, even if you know no details of it or when it might occur. So you may be assassinated by a drone or bomb strike – and the doctrine was specifically developed to justify such strikes – because of “intelligence” you are engaged in a plot, when that intelligence neither says what the plot is nor when it might occur. Or even more tenuous, because there is intelligence you have engaged in a plot before, so it is reasonable to kill you in case you do so again.

I am not inventing the Bethlehem Doctrine. It has been the formal legal justification for drone strikes and targeted assassinations by the Israeli, US and UK governments for a decade. Here it is in academic paper form, published by Bethlehem after he left government service (the form in which it is adopted by the US, UK and Israeli Governments is classified information).

So when Pompeo says attacks by Soleimani were “imminent” he is not using the word in the normal sense in the English language. It is no use asking him what, where or when these “imminent” attacks were planned to be. He is referencing the Bethlehem Doctrine under which you can kill people on the basis of a feeling that they may have been about to do something.

The idea that killing an individual who you have received information is going to attack you, but you do not know when, where or how, can be justified as self-defence, has not gained widespread acceptance – or indeed virtually any acceptance – in legal circles outside the ranks of the most extreme devoted neo-conservatives and zionists. Daniel Bethlehem became the FCO’s Chief Legal Adviser, brought in by Jack Straw, precisely because every single one of the FCO’s existing Legal Advisers believed the Iraq War to be illegal. In 2004, when the House of Commons was considering the legality of the war on Iraq, Bethlehem produced a remarkable paper for consideration which said that it was legal because the courts and existing law were wrong, a defence which has seldom succeeded in court.

(b) following this line, I am also of the view that the wider principles of the law on self-defence also require closer scrutiny. I am not persuaded that the approach of doctrinal purity reflected in the Judgments of the International Court of Justice in this area provide a helpful edifice on which a coherent legal regime, able to address the exigencies of contemporary international life and discourage resort to unilateral action, is easily crafted;

The key was that the concept of “imminent” was to change:

The concept of what constitutes an “imminent” armed attack will develop to meet new circumstances and new threats

In the absence of a respectable international lawyer willing to argue this kind of tosh, Blair brought in Bethlehem as Chief Legal Adviser, the man who advised Netanyahu on Israel’s security wall and who was willing to say that attacking Iraq was legal on the basis of Saddam’s “imminent threat” to the UK, which proved to be non-existent. It says everything about Bethlehem’s eagerness for killing that the formulation of the Bethlehem Doctrine on extrajudicial execution by drone came after the Iraq War, and he still gave not one second’s thought to the fact that the intelligence on the “imminent threat” can be wrong. Assassinating people on the basis of faulty intelligence is not addressed by Bethlehem in setting out his doctrine. The bloodlust is strong in this one.

There are literally scores of academic articles, in every respected journal of international law, taking down the Bethlehem Doctrine for its obvious absurdities and revolting special pleading. My favourite is this one by Bethlehem’s predecessor as the FCO Chief Legal Adviser, Sir Michael Wood and his ex-Deputy Elizabeth Wilmshurst.

I addressed the Bethlehem Doctrine as part of my contribution to a book reflecting on Chomsky‘s essay “On the Responsibility of Intellectuals”

In the UK recently, the Attorney General gave a speech in defence of the UK’s drone policy, the assassination of people – including British nationals – abroad. This execution without a hearing is based on several criteria, he reassured us. His speech was repeated slavishly in the British media. In fact, the Guardian newspaper simply republished the government press release absolutely verbatim, and stuck a reporter’s byline at the top.

The media have no interest in a critical appraisal of the process by which the British government regularly executes without trial. Yet in fact it is extremely interesting. The genesis of the policy lay in the appointment of Daniel Bethlehem as the Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s Chief Legal Adviser. Jack Straw made the appointment, and for the first time ever it was external, and not from the Foreign Office’s own large team of world-renowned international lawyers. The reason for that is not in dispute. Every single one of the FCO’s legal advisers had advised that the invasion of Iraq was illegal, and Straw wished to find a new head of the department more in tune with the neo-conservative world view. Straw went to extremes. He appointed Daniel Bethlehem, the legal ‘expert’ who provided the legal advice to Benjamin Netanyahu on the ‘legality’ of building the great wall hemming in the Palestinians away from their land and water resources. Bethlehem was an enthusiastic proponent of the invasion of Iraq. He was also the most enthusiastic proponent in the world of drone strikes.

Bethlehem provided an opinion on the legality of drone strikes which is, to say the least, controversial. To give one example, Bethlehem accepts that established principles of international law dictate that lethal force may be used only to prevent an attack which is ‘imminent’. Bethlehem argues that for an attack to be ‘imminent’ does not require it to be ‘soon’. Indeed you can kill to avert an ‘imminent attack’ even if you have no information on when and where it will be. You can instead rely on your target’s ‘pattern of behaviour’; that is, if he has attacked before, it is reasonable to assume he will attack again and that such an attack is ‘imminent’.

There is a much deeper problem: that the evidence against the target is often extremely dubious. Yet even allowing the evidence to be perfect, it is beyond me that the state can kill in such circumstances without it being considered a death penalty imposed without trial for past crimes, rather than to frustrate another ‘imminent’ one. You would think that background would make an interesting story. Yet the entire ‘serious’ British media published the government line, without a single journalist, not one, writing about the fact that Bethlehem’s proposed definition of ‘imminent’ has been widely rejected by the international law community. The public knows none of this. They just ‘know’ that drone strikes are keeping us safe from deadly attack by terrorists, because the government says so, and nobody has attempted to give them other information

Remember, this is not just academic argument, the Bethlehem Doctrine is the formal policy position on assassination of Israel, the US and UK governments. So that is lie one. When Pompeo says Soleimani was planning “imminent” attacks, he is using the Bethlehem definition under which “imminent” is a “concept” which means neither “soon” nor “definitely going to happen”. To twist a word that far from its normal English usage is to lie. To do so to justify killing people is obscene. That is why, if I finish up in the bottom-most pit of hell, the worst thing about the experience will be the company of Daniel Bethlehem.

Let us now move on to the next lie, which is being widely repeated, this time originated by Donald Trump, that Soleimani was responsible for the “deaths of hundreds, if not thousands, of Americans”. This lie has been parroted by everybody, Republicans and Democrats alike.

Really? Who were they? When and where? While the Bethlehem Doctrine allows you to kill somebody because they might be going to attack someone, sometime, but you don’t know who or when, there is a reasonable expectation that if you are claiming people have already been killed you should be able to say who and when.

The truth of the matter is that if you take every American killed including and since 9/11, in the resultant Middle East related wars, conflicts and terrorist acts, well over 90% of them have been killed by Sunni Muslims financed and supported out of Saudi Arabia and its gulf satellites, and less than 10% of those Americans have been killed by Shia Muslims tied to Iran.

This is a horribly inconvenient fact for US administrations which, regardless of party, are beholden to Saudi Arabia and its money. It is, the USA affirms, the Sunnis who are the allies and the Shias who are the enemy. Yet every journalist or aid worker hostage who has been horribly beheaded or otherwise executed has been murdered by a Sunni, every jihadist terrorist attack in the USA itself, including 9/11, has been exclusively Sunni, the Benghazi attack was by Sunnis, Isil are Sunni, Al Nusra are Sunni, the Taliban are Sunni and the vast majority of US troops killed in the region are killed by Sunnis.

Precisely which are these hundreds of deaths for which the Shia forces of Soleimani were responsible? Is there a list? It is of course a simple lie. Its tenuous connection with truth relates to the Pentagon’s estimate – suspiciously upped repeatedly since Iran became the designated enemy – that back during the invasion of Iraq itself, 83% of US troop deaths were at the hands of Sunni resistance and 17% of of US troop deaths were at the hands of Shia resistance, that is 603 troops. All the latter are now lain at the door of Soleimani, remarkably.

Those were US troops killed in combat during an invasion. The Iraqi Shia militias – whether Iran backed or not – had every legal right to fight the US invasion. The idea that the killing of invading American troops was somehow illegal or illegitimate is risible. Plainly the US propaganda that Soleimani was “responsible for hundreds of American deaths” is intended, as part of the justification for his murder, to give the impression he was involved in terrorism, not legitimate combat against invading forces. The idea that the US has the right to execute those who fight it when it invades is an absolutely stinking abnegation of the laws of war.

As I understand it, there is very little evidence that Soleimani had active operational command of Shia militias during the invasion, and in any case to credit him personally with every American soldier killed is plainly a nonsense. But even if Soleimani had personally supervised every combat success, these were legitimate acts of war. You cannot simply assassinate opposing generals who fought you, years after you invade.

The final, and perhaps silliest lie, is Vice President Mike Pence’s attempt to link Soleimani to 9/11. There is absolutely no link between Soleimani and 9/11, and the most strenuous efforts by the Bush regime to find evidence that would link either Iran or Iraq to 9/11 (and thus take the heat off their pals the al-Saud who were actually responsible) failed. Yes, it is true that some of the hijackers at one point transited Iran to Afghanistan. But there is zero evidence, as the 9/11 report specifically stated, that the Iranians knew what they were planning, or that Soleimani personally was involved. This is total bullshit. 9/11 was Sunni and Saudi led, nothing to do with Iran.

Soleimani actually was involved in intelligence and logistical cooperation with the United States in Afghanistan post 9/11 (the Taliban were his enemies too, the shia Tajiks being a key part of the US aligned Northern Alliance). He was in Iraq to fight ISIL.

The final aggravating factor in the Soleimani murder is that he was an accredited combatant general of a foreign state which the world – including the USA – recognises. The Bethlehem Doctrine specifically applies to “non-state actors”. Unlike all of the foregoing, this next is speculation, but I suspect that the legal argument in the Pentagon ran that Soleimani is a non-state actor when in Iraq, where the Shia militias have a semi-official status.

But that does not wash. Soleimani is a high official in Iran who was present in Iraq as a guest of the Iraqi government, to which the US government is allied. This greatly exacerbates the illegality of his assassination still further.

The political world in the UK is so cowed by the power of the neo-conservative Establishment and media, that the assassination of Soleimani is not being called out for the act of blatant illegality that it is. It was an act of state terrorism by the USA, pure and simple.

Craig Murray is an author, broadcaster and human rights activist. He was British Ambassador to Uzbekistan from August 2002 to October 2004 and Rector of the University of Dundee from 2007 to 2010.

(Republished from by permission of author or representative)
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  1. Biff says:

    9/11 was Sunni and Saudi led, nothing to do with Iran.

    Your gonna get verbally thrashed for this, but pay it no mind. The rest was spot on…

  2. Sean says:

    A threat may, or may not be, imminent, but the right of self defense is immanent and preceded all law.

    • Replies: @JamesinNM
  3. utu says:

    Rise and Kill First: The Secret History of Israel’s Targeted Assassinations by Ronen Bergman

    The book’s title is inspired by a statement in the Talmud: “If someone comes to kill you, rise up and kill him first”.

    And there is another dictum in Talmud: Tob Shebbe Goyim Harog (“Kill the Best Gentiles”).

  4. gotmituns says:

    Lies, the Bethlehem Doctrine, and the Illegal Murder of Soleimani
    It’s hard to determine anymore between what’s legal and what’s illegal. As far as “lies” go, don’t believe anything coming from government, media and “educational establishment”.

  5. We know Israel does this all the time but to non state actors. I dont think in recent history anyone has openly target a state actor in such a criminal fashion because it is an act of war and not only that but considered barbaric. To ask for mediation and then to assassinate the messengers is an act that not even the mongols took part in and they considered it enough to wipe out any such parties..

    • Replies: @Rev. Spooner
  6. Parfois1 says:

    Good expose about the creative criminal minds twisting language and decency to justify murder and war crimes. The author doesn’t say it, but with a such a name, it is the same as crying out: JEW.

    A new legal doctrine to justify crimes in an industrial scale for the good of UK-USrael.

    However they might be right in claiming that Gen. Soleimani had killed or was about to kill many “Americans” – not strictly US citizens – but the honorary American terrorist foot soldiers fighting American wars in the Middle East.

  7. Wally says:

    Note here that Craig Murray fails to condemn Obama’s illegal, many, many drone murders.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @c matt
  8. Ghali says:

    Do terrorists act legally? The U.S. is a terrorist organisation. It is misleading to call the US a nation or a country. Soleimani is widely-acknowledged as the architect of the successful campaign to defeat the U.S.-Israel sponsored terrorists (ISIS and al-Qaeda) in Syria and Iraq. The sad irony is that Iran was a major U.S. “ally” during the U.S. aggression against Afghanistan and more importantly against Iraq. Without Iran (the Eastern front) the U.S. would not have invaded Iraq. Iran played a major military role helping the U.S. against the Iraqi Resistance.

    • Replies: @Parfois1
  9. Alfred says:

    In 1997, Tony Blair purged the BBC and closed the “Arabic Section”. Over 100 journalists who could speak languages such as Arabic, Farsi and Pashto were removed. They called it a “restructuring” 🙂

    All of the details have been removed from the websites of the relevant newspapers in the UK, Wikipedia and Google,

    After leaving the BBC, Birt was Strategic Advisor to Prime Minister Tony Blair from 2001–5. He was appointed Chairman of CPA Global in 2015.

    John Birt was director general of the BBC at that time.

    What happened to the legal system was done right across the board to any organisation that in any way might get in the way of attacking Iraq. This was done well before 9/11.

    • Thanks: Rev. Spooner
  10. Hollywood creatures are the vilest scum.

    Hollywood’s fake history vs. actual history on Israel’s role in the Iraq war.

    • Replies: @Rev. Spooner
  11. RouterAl says:

    Interesting article , paints the Blair (proxy Israel agents) government in yet more bad light. It also confirms that Jew Jack Straw was everything you would expect from Jew. Can I be the only person to think that from the moment Hitler transported his first shipment of Haavara Agreement Jews to Palestine there has not been a moments piece in that corner of the globe. The Arab countries have been systematically attacked and some like Libya and Iraq destroyed.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @YetAnotherAnon
  12. Dube says:

    While Ahmadinejad never actually said that Israel would be driven into the sea, that statement was imminent, therefore it was legitimate to quote it.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @dimples
  13. Zumbuddi says:

    How hideous that this is named Bethlehem, “The place of healing; place of birth of the Prince of Peace.’

    More appropriate to call it the ESTHER doctrine, or PURIM doctrine.

    The Hebrew text provides no solid evidence that Haman sought to kill Jews: the notion is based on Mordecha the Spy and self-serving Snitch.

    Netanyahu has made public statements linking today’s Iran to the Purim doctrine that Jews celebrate to this day.

    In other words, Jews demonstrate a clear patter of “imminent threat” to kill those who resist Zionist – Anglo dominence.

    Under this Purim (Bethlehem) doctrine, therefore, it is not only legitimate, it is necessary — a Constitutional obligation — that the American government Kill Jews who pose an Imminent Threat to the American — and Iranian — people.

  14. As a retired international lawyer I am of the opinion Mr. Murray sets out fact and law impressively . He says everything that is needed to be said

    Good for the FCO legal team in resisting the invasion of Iraq. I do know at least one British regiment sought independent legal advice before accepting orders.

  15. Great article Mr. Murray, very needed in these times of almost universal deceit.

    Mr. Bethlehem displays the famous Jewish quality of chutzpah – the quality of a bit who has killed his parents in cold blood but begs the judge for mercy because he is an orphan – when he decided to simply change the law.

    I wish I had some of that Jewish privilege, that way I too could go around robbing and killing and then simply change the law to get away Scot free.

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  16. Gallum says:

    Iran’s President Hassan Rouhani attended Glasgow Caledonian University in Scotland, graduating in 1995 with an M.Phil. degree in Law. Rouhani is close to Jack Straw and Straw is very close to Lord Levy. And Lord Levy is very close to Lord Rothschild. Jack Straw says “in Hassan Rouhani’s Iran, you can feel the winds change.” “Winds changing” is an understatement. They are gust winds blowing at high velocity directly from the City of London and from Israel’s direction. All very high level British intrigue going on here in Iran. It was Jack Straw who appointed Daniel Bethlehem who developed the “Bethlehem Doctrine” used in justifying the assassination of General Soleinami under false pretenses Pompeo probably knew about when he informed President Trump. From 1979 to 2013, Rouhani held a number of important positions in the Velayat-e Faqih’s key institutions, as “the man in power but in the shadows.” Hassan Rouhani’s job it appears considering his education and position is through Shia law is to continue to perpetuate the spread of the “revolution.” The “revolution” is designed to keep confrontation in place. Why not gradually move from “revolutionary Shia” to a more conciliatory peaceful religious position? Iran’s Mohammad Javad Zarif who is now an Iranian career diplomat, spent 20 years from the age of 17 studying in the United States. Kind of makes us look harder at John Kerry and whether or not his connections to Mohammad Javad Zarif have anything to do with all that is unfolding here?

  17. They all have fake names. Netanyahu is really Mileikowski. Ben Gurion was really Gruen. But for a British Jew to grab the name Bethlehem is a real attack on Christianity.

    • Replies: @eah
  18. Parfois1 says:

    The sad irony is that Iran was a major U.S. “ally” during the U.S. aggression against Afghanistan and more importantly against Iraq. Without Iran (the Eastern front) the U.S. would not have invaded Iraq. Iran played a major military role helping the U.S. against the Iraqi Resistance.

    Well, what can one say? First, there is the official narrative; then there are the alternative narratives in their many fashions and narrations; and then there is the oddball narrative that defies logic and reason. Iran allied with Usrael?

    It may look (and is) an exorbitant stretch of imagination to come to such a view. But it is not unique; it is not much different from the often-heard impossible claim here at UR that Nazi Germany was allied with the Soviet Union in 1939!

    • Troll: L.K
    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  19. anonymous[382] • Disclaimer says:

    Can I be the only person to think that from the moment Hitler transported his first shipment of Haavara Agreement Jews to Palestine there has not been a moments piece in that corner of the globe.

    Can you be the only person . . .?


    “There has not been a moment’s piece [sic] in that corner of the globe” since Herzl began attempting to co-opt the Ottoman Empire in ~1895.

    Balfour ramped it up a notch in 1917; at the urging of Louis Brandeis, Woodrow Wilson endorsed Balfour’s plan.

    • Agree: Druid
  20. @Wally

    Note here that Wally fails to condemn Trump’s illegal act of war on a national of a nation which Congress has not declared war upon.

    Yes Wally, Obama was a war criminal who deserves to hang for his crimes, but if you are to retain any credibility with which to continue your mission to expose the Holohoax, you should also acknowledge that Trump is a war criminal too who, based on precedent, also deserves to hang. Your loyalty is clearly misplaced.

    • Thanks: L.K
    • Replies: @Wally
  21. @Dube

    I believe that what he actually said was that, “Israel would disappear from the pages of history”. The usual liars reported this as “Iran would wipe Israel off the map”.

    If the West is to fight back and survive then the first battle should surely be against the lying media organs that bear so much responsibility for the shit-storm that is on the way.

    • Replies: @Biff
  22. @Parfois1

    Hillary Mann Leverett negotiated with Iranian counterparts at United Nations and gained Iranian assistance in finding partners to defeat Taliban
    March 31, 2015

    ~15 min:


    “Unlike Mr. Dubowitz and many in Washington, I have actually negotiated with current Iranian officials, and it was an effective negotiation. [it resulted] in a state enormously not only overthrow the Taliban, but set up a proper government in Afghanistan. There is just no evidence whatsoever that continuing to bludgeon them and pressure them is going to do anything to give us concessions.”

    Leverett participated in a ’round-table discussion’ with Mark Dubowitz of Foundation for Defense of Democracy (FDD).

    Dubowitz’s spiel was boilerplate: “Saddam killed 200,000 of his own people, he is pursuing nuclear weapons,” blah blah blah.

    On Jan 12 2020 on C Span, first Ilan Goldenberg of Center for New American Security (George Soros, major funder), then Michael Rubin of American Enterprise Institute *recited the same talking points: only the names were changed, a tacit acknowledgement that the original, Iraqi-based set of names were dead.

    *AEI Board of Trustees:
    AEI is governed by a Board of Trustees, composed of leading business and financial executives.
    Daniel A. D’Aniello, Chairman
    Cofounder and Chairman
    The Carlyle Group

    Clifford S. Asness
    Managing and Founding Principal
    AQR Capital Management, LLC

    The Honorable Richard B. Cheney

    Peter H. Coors
    Vice Chairman of the Board
    Molson Coors Brewing Company

    Harlan Crow
    Crow Holdings

    Ravenel B. Curry III
    Chief Investment Officer
    Eagle Capital Management, LLC

    — also interesting comments from the audience @ 11 min

    Leverett has also repeated, on numerous occasions, that sanctions –” a weapon of war” — are counterproductive and, in the case of Iraq, “killed a million Iraqis, half of them children.”

  23. Biff says:

    I believe that what he actually said was that, “Israel would disappear from the pages of history”.

    More precisely the quote says “The Israel regime would disappear…..” meaning the Israel government – not the country and its’ people.

  24. dimples says:

    Indeed, the Jews cunningly arranged for the Arab states to look like they might attack them in 1967. Then they swooped like a prescient eagle and blew up all the Egyptian planes on the ground before this attack, which might not have happened otherwise, actually happened. Its definitely a winning philosophy, but only if you are sure you are going to win in the first place.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  25. Art says:

    Leave it to a Jew and his Bethlehem Doctrine, to crush the four centuries old Treaty of Westphalia where the principle of national sovereignty was instituted. Killing the leaders of a sovereign nation breaks the treaty.

    Assassination is a Jew tool. Killing is the Jew way.

    Stop the Jew – Think Peace

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  26. @RouterAl

    “Jew Jack Straw was everything you would expect from Jew”

    I seem to recall a piece in an Israeli paper saying he wasn’t Jewish. It was quite witty, saying IIRC that although he looked like a shul trustee and his career trajectory (student politics then law then media) was classically Jewish, he has (as wiki says) only one Jewish great-grandparent.

    From wiki

    “In 2013, at a round table event of the Global Diplomatic Forum at the UK’s House of Commons, Straw (who has Jewish heritage) was quoted by Israeli politician Einat Wilf, one of the panelists at the forum, as having said that among the main obstacles to peace was the amount of money available to Jewish organizations in the US, which controlled US foreign policy, and also Germany’s “obsession” with defending Israel.”

  27. @dimples

    “Its definitely a winning philosophy, but only if you are sure you are going to win in the first place.”

    Yes, it didn’t do the losers much good at Nuremberg, although Germany had explained the attack of June 22 as a pre-emptive strike – “Therefore Russia has broken its treaties and is about to attack Germany. I have ordered the German armed forces to oppose this threat with all their strength“.

  28. Cowboy says:

    “The Bethlehem Doctrine is that states have a right of “pre-emptive self-defence” against “imminent” attack. That is something most people, and most international law experts and judges, would accept.”

    So Operation Barbarossa was legal. But we knew that already because not only Germany, but Romania, Finland, Italy, Hungary, Slovakia and Croatia (wiki doesn’t mention the Spanish Azul division) all attacked due to the “imminent threat” of Stalin, who certainly had a long history of war crimes, the most recent being his invasions of Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Romania and even Finland.

    Additionally, 400,000 of the Waffen SS were non-Germanic, yet wiki prefaces its description of Barbarossa as “The operation put into action Nazi Germany’s ideological goal of conquering the western Soviet Union so as to repopulate it with Germans.”.

    The more things change, the more the lies stay the same. Like Hitler, Soleimani was a “bad, hateful terrorist” who they smear by claiming “he deserved to die”. In the end this is really about the mother of all modern jewish lies, the “holocaust”.

  29. “The Bethlehem Doctrine”

    Just one additional bit of evidence for the sick, corrupting influence of empire on law and human affairs.

    This what what happens when you have an empire instead of a country.

  30. Jake says:

    #1 – “When Pompeo says Soleimani was planning “imminent” attacks, he is using the Bethlehem definition under which “imminent” is a “concept” which means neither “soon” nor “definitely going to happen”. To twist a word that far from its normal English usage is to lie. To do so to justify killing people is obscene. That is why, if I finish up in the bottom-most pit of hell, the worst thing about the experience will be the company of Daniel Bethlehem.”

    #2 – [1] Now the serpent was more subtle than any of the beasts of the earth which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman: Why hath God commanded you, that you should not eat of every tree of paradise? [2] And the woman answered him, saying: Of the fruit of the trees that are in paradise we do eat: [3] But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of paradise, God hath commanded us that we should not eat; and that we should not touch it, lest perhaps we die. [4] And the serpent said to the woman: No, you shall not die the death. [5] For God doth know that in what day soever you shall eat thereof, your eyes shall be opened: and you shall be as Gods, knowing good and evil.

    What do we get when we add #1 and #2?

    #3 – The CIA, the Mossad, and the Saudi General Intelligence Presidency are all offshoots from, are all in origin product of, Brit WASP secret service.

    When we add the answer to the above question to #3, what then is the sum?

  31. Jake says:

    It is 100% true.

    Offhand, I think 19 of the 21 highjackers were Saudi born and raised. All 21 were Arab Sunnis.

    • Replies: @9/11 Inside job
    , @Z-man
  32. @Biff

    Agree that 9/11 had “…nothing to do with Iran” but to say that “9/11 was Sunni and Saudi led ” is disinformation . Is Craig Murray , a former British Diplomat , a 9/11 gatekeeper? Murray has written
    “I do not believe that the US government or any of its agencies were responsible for 9/11.” Like Noam Chomsky , Murray fails the 9/11 “litmus test “.
    Trump is continuing the state terrorism by drone as carried out by Bush and Obama : “Why is Obama still killing children [by drome] ?” :
    .”.. thousands of civilians , including hundreds of children , have fallen victim to his preemptive drone strikes over the last seven years …’America’s actions are legal ‘, Obama said ,’we were attacked on 9/11′”
    So Obama had the chutzpah to blame his murder of civilians on 9/11. The Democratic and Republican parties are truly wings which belong to the same bird of prey .

  33. A very feministy Doctrine.

  34. Historically, nations act in what serves their interests. Western involvement in the Middle East has been primarily about energy security and commerce. They seek to justify it through different means, including legalistic sophistry. The real danger of the US-Iran confrontation is consequences that lead to no alternative but escalation. One scenario, a Tehran 79 type hostage stand-off in Baghdad where President Trump (in an election year) could find himself with no choice but up the ante. The spector of humiliation and defeat convincing him the only hope is to persevere. But that could be an illusion, moving deeper into a sequence of events leading unstoppably to the real danger in the Middle East – confrontation with Russia. Many say it couldn’t happen. History suggests otherwise. Living by the law might be the future: learning from history the way to create that future.

  35. It’s all about interpretation . As Bill Clinton taught us about words and their meaning:
    “it depends on what the meaning of ‘is’ is”

  36. anonymous[582] • Disclaimer says:

    Sunni this, Sunni that… [email protected]# You, Craig Murray, you whitrash piece of shit!!

    If this scum was a career diplomat of that pissant island, which has never been up to any good, then he must fundamentally be an evil scumbag, working for the pleasure of that old thieving witch.

    Just various masks of controlled opposition. Mofers all!!

  37. Yet another mixed bag. Invoking an official government lie, thus poisoning the well.

    Yes, it is true that some of the hijackers at one point transited Iran to Afghanistan.

    The hijackers“?
    I suppose this is an inserted reference to the alleged “hijackers” that were not even on the airline flight manifests yet became central to the phony 9/11 story that no serious person believes.

    • Replies: @GeeBee
  38. Israel and its colony the ZUS are the most dangerous countries in the world because of their total disregard of international law as evidenced by their joint attack on the WTC on 911 and their using this as the excuse to destroy the middle east for Israel, which has killed millions and kept America at war for Israel for decades!

    The ZUS and Israel are in the same league as Stalin and Hitler and are a blight on humanity!

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    , @GeeBee
  39. @Desert Fox

    The ZUS and Israel are in the same league as Stalin and Hitler and are a blight on humanity!

    What is your criterion for comparison, Desert Fox?

    I don’t know much about Stalin, so can’t deal with that.

    Hitler was defending Germany: he told Herbert Hoover that his three “idees fixes” were:

    “to unify Germany from its fragmentation by the Treaty of Versailles;

    to expand its physical resources by moving into Russia or the Balkan States . . .[to prevent a recurrence of] the famine;

    to destroy the Russian Communist government . . .[consequent to] the brutalities of the Communist uprisings in German cities during the Armistice period.” (Freedom Betrayed, by Herbert Hoover).

    ZUS and Israel are aggressing, invading, occupying, displacing and ethnically cleansing forces; they are not acting defensively, as NSDAP was, by any application of logic.

    • Agree: Mulegino1
    • Replies: @Desert Fox
    , @AnonFromTN
  40. Mulegino1 says:

    This is total bullshit. 9/11 was Sunni and Saudi led, nothing to do with Iran.

    The Saudis may have enabled the creation of the legends of the hijackers, but had little or nothing to do with the execution of the operation. 9/11 certainly was carried out preponderantly by Israeli operatives for the economic benefit of Zionist Jews and their criminal co-conspirators in the world of finance and the councils of government.

    The sentence ought to be reordered thus:

    ‘9/11 was Sunni and Saudi led. ‘ That is total bullshit. In any case, it had nothing to do with Iran.

  41. Number 2 says:

    Sean promptly serves up the CIA line, more slogans for people who are not too bright. Today it’s a little pun to muddle up the law and give CIA a desperately-sought loophole for the crime of aggression, for which there is no justification. Sean is thinking fast as he can to try and distract you from the necessity and proportionality tests which accompany any use of force and govern the status of the act as countermeasure, internationally wrongful act, or crime. Sean’s indoctrination has protected his stationary hamster-wheel mind from the black letter law of Chapter VII, including Articles 47 and 51, which place self-defense forces at the disposal of the UNSC under direction of the Military Staff Committee. Sean also seizes up with Orwellian CIA CRIMESTOP when he hears anything about the case law governing use of force, such as the minimal indicative examples below.

    CIA has been running from the law for 85 years now, but despite their wholesale corruption of the Secretariat, they’re losing control of the UN charter bodies and treaty bodies. Some SIS scapegoats are going to be faking palsy in the dock to get a break. Brennan first.

  42. @SolontoCroesus

    Recommend you do the research, Hitler was put into power by the zionist banking kabal, the same kabal that rules the ZUS, read the book Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler, and they wanted Hitler and Stalin to destroy each other, that was the zionist plan and they used the ZUS and Britain to do it, just as they have destroyed the mideast for Israels greater Israel agenda.

    The ZUS is just like Hitler invading and destroying the mideast for Israel using the attack on WTC as an excuse, which was a joint attack on the WTC on 911 by traitors in the ZUS and Israel, the whole deal is a zionist driven holocaust on the people of the middle east.

    By the way Israel is perpetrating a holocaust of the people of Palestine and this holocaust is backed by the ZUS, which is Israels military arm ie a subsidiary of the IDF.

    Recommend the archives section on on Hitler and Stalin.


  43. @Jake

    There were no hijackers , there were no planes , they were likely CGI’s in videos produced in a “Holywood production” prior to 9/11 , see septemberclues. info “The central role of the news media on 9/11” .

  44. Truth3 says:

    9/11 was a Jewish operation from Day One.

    PNAC, anyone?


  45. c matt says:

    I am sure, if asked, he would condemn Obama’s war crimes as well (and Bush I, Bush II, Clinton, etc. probably going back to Lincoln at least). But the subject was about Soleimani’s assassination, which, as much as I am sure you would like to do, cannot be pinned on Obama.

    • Replies: @Wally
  46. Wally says:


    – There hasn’t been a US declaration of war since WWII, and there have been countless US military actions.
    Your Pelosi talking point refuted.

    – Your double standard is on parade. Again, no mention of “war criminal” Obama.

    – You clearly prefer to ignore my many posts critical of Trump.

    – And of course you cannot refute anything I have posted about the fake & impossible “holocaust”.


  47. @Igor Bundy

    Right. The Mongols rolled the murderers of their emissaries or ambassadors in carpets and had them trampled to death by horses. This was followed by razing the city/state. I’m told Nuttyyahoo of Israel provided the info and encouraged it.

  48. My two cents worth:

    1) Elizabeth Warren has lied about her ethnicity and has benefited from it thus lying can be natural for her… she would most likely give a lap dance to Bibi if demanded to get elected,

    2) Arabs are being absolved of 9/11 by their Ashkenazi cousins who mistakenly believe that they are semites despite having overwhelmingly slavic blood… there must be trace amounts of meshuggah genes mixed up with the Indo-European and thus the hatred of Iranians,

    3) Jesus came once before, therefore it must reason that he is coming back the second time and now the arrival is imminent so Daniel Bethlehem must become Christian now or go to hell…

  49. @Priss Factor

    Adam Green is a true American patriot.

  50. @Biff

    “…every jihadist terrorist attack in the USA itself, including 9/11, has been exclusively Sunni…,”

  51. Z-man says:

    20 Hijackers. One, a black Moroccan Muslim, chickened out and is in jail somewhere in the USA. The leader, Atta, was from Egypt. The lead guy to the flight that only had four hijackers because of the Moroccan, which crashed in PA, was from Lebanon and could pass for an American/Jew. Two were from the United Arab Emirates and the rest, 15, were Saudis.

    • Replies: @2stateshmustate
  52. Mafia-style assassination of Soleimani was undoubtedly an act of state terrorism. What’s more, it was an act of war against Iran. It was a crime committed by the US military on orders of Trump, who publicly confessed that he gave that criminal order.

    Limited Iranian response just shows that Iran government is sane, in sharp contrast to the US government.

    • Agree: Ron Unz
    • Replies: @Art
    , @BL
    , @Wally
  53. @SolontoCroesus

    “to unify Germany from its fragmentation by the Treaty of Versailles;
    to expand its physical resources by moving into Russia or the Balkan States . . .[to prevent a recurrence of] the famine;
    to destroy the Russian Communist government . . .[consequent to] the brutalities of the Communist uprisings in German cities during the Armistice period.” (Freedom Betrayed, by Herbert Hoover).

    Your #2 and #3 are naked aggression. Exactly as Soleimani murder.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  54. Agent76 says:

    May 8, 2019 Afghanistan, the Forgotten Proxy War. The Role of Osama bin Laden and Zbigniew Brzezinski

    The original “moderate rebel”

    One of the key players in the anti-Soviet, U.S.-led regime change project against Afghanistan was Osama bin Laden, a Saudi-born millionaire who came from a wealthy, powerful family that owns a Saudi construction company and has had close ties to the Saudi royal family.

    June 6, 2018 Why the US shouldn’t build more foreign bases

    The United States maintains almost 800 military bases in over 70 countries, which far exceeds our modern day security requirements.

    Mar 28, 2014 VICE on HBO Debrief: Children of the Drones

    Suroosh Alvi went to Pakistan and found out that American drones there are doing more harm than good.

  55. GeeBee says:

    While I am sure that the official story of the September 11th 2001 ‘attack’ is false, I frequently wonder why the ‘truthers’ seem never to be able to get all their ducks in a row. Many claim that the film footage of the aircraft strikes were pre-manufactured CGIs, issued to the media in order to mask the real culprits which they allege were cruise missiles. But a cruise missile doesn’t have a flight manifest. Either those four flights that the official story says were hijacked took off that day, or they did not. The CGI theory rests, of course, on there being no such flights. Yet you claim that ‘the hijackers’ were not on flight manifests for those flights. This is surely the craziest interpretion: either the flights were fictional (as in the CGI theory) and thus there were no manifests, or they really did take place, and therefore had manifests, and were hijacked. If, as you claim, the flights actually took place, but no hijackers boarded them, how on earth did they fly into the twin towers? It makes no sense at all I fear.

    • Replies: @Been_there_done_that
  56. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    every jihadist terrorist attack in the USA itself, including 9/11

    Generally interesting comment. But why distract from the issue of the Soleimani assassination with such a ridiculous comment ab0ut 9/11?

  57. nsa says:

    Americans are now as gods. asserting their inherent right to kill anyone, anytime, anywhere, for any reason.
    “Did we just kill a kid?” In 2012 a USAF drone operator named Bryant reported he was “flying” drones out of New Mexico and painted a 6000 mile away Afghan shack with his laser, and with permission released a Hellfire missile. During the time the missile took to arrive, he saw on his screen a child toddle from behind the shack. Mesmerized, in slow motion, he saw the shack explode and the child disappear. Having killed hundreds remotely, he still wasn’t ready for this and asked his copilot: “Did we just kill a kid?”. The operator answered: “I guess so”. Suddenly on the screen appeared the words of some unknown anonymous supervisor: “No, it was a dog”. Bryant responded: “A dog on two legs?”
    Even the resident boomer Nam hero, Rich, might have trouble justifying this kind of activity….but then again in a jewed out society……..maybe not.

  58. GeeBee says:
    @Desert Fox

    ‘The ZUS and Israel are in the same league as Stalin and Hitler and are a blight on humanity!’

    Ah. I see that you are still drinking the Kool Aid regarding Herr Hitler. I used to believe it all too. You’ll learn in time, as will enough people. Only then will the gigantic criminal enterprise fomented by ‘the International Race’ that we call World War II be seen for the monstrous crime against humanity that it was. Perhaps – just perhaps – that same sick and depraved race will then finally be so deservedly called to account for its foul deeds.

    Make no mistake: understanding just who and what Adolf Hitler really was, and especially his role in saving at least part of the West from Communism, is absolutely central to an appreciation of this awful world in which we now live.

    • Replies: @Desert Fox
    , @Avery
  59. @GeeBee

    I am under no illusions about Hitler or Stalin as both were funded by the international zionist banking kabal, read the book Hitlers Secret Bankers by Sidney Warburg and Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler and Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution,by Anthony Sutton, zionists were behind the whole deal.

    Recommend and his archive section on Hitler and Stalin.

    • LOL: Ron Unz
  60. Paul says:

    Noam Chomsky has pointed out that if the United States is truly against terrorism, it should stop engaging in it.

    • Replies: @9/11 Inside job
  61. Art says:

    Limited Iranian response just shows that Iran government is sane, in sharp contrast to the US government.

    There is great tension in the world, tension toward a breaking point, and men are unhappy and confused. At such a time it seems natural and good to me to ask myself these questions. What do I believe in? What must I fight for and what must I fight against?”
    ― John Steinbeck, East of Eden

    This is one of those times.

  62. Lol says:

    What’s ironic is that Pompeo and his fellow Americans would cry like the little girls they are if the rest of the world starting assassinating Americans based on the same grounds. Lol

    • Replies: @Herald
  63. anonymous[283] • Disclaimer says:

    There is no such thing as international law or legality. Might makes right as shown by the US doing as it pleases and thumbing it’s nose at everyone. Some person with legal credentials gets trotted out to declare whatever has been done is legal, just rubber-stamping it. It’s too bad but that’s the reality.

  64. @Z-man

    With all due respect which is 0. How pray tell did the those “hijackers” manage to plant the explosives in the 3 World Trade towers buildings with which to imploded them? Of course they didn’t. Israel and Jews have their fingerprints all over the 911 attack.

    911 was an Israeli/ Jew false flag attack that resulted in the murder of 3000 innocent goyim before noon that day. It’s purpose was to create hatred towards Arabs, Muslims and Persians so that stupid Americans would send their children to die for the squatter colony of Israel.

    Folks the Jew controlled US government is saying that those 3 sky-scrapers collapsed into their own footprint at free fall speed due to one cause: office furniture fires. Not the impact of the “plane” and not the fuel carried by the “planes”. This has never happened before or since in the history of the world. It is complete bullshit. The JewSA’s story is totally impossible and defies the laws of physics. Namely the Law of the conservation of energy.

    As anyone who observers the fall of all 3 towers can see those building fall at free fall speed. For this to happen it means that the underlying structure is offering NO resistance to the above falling structure. How can this be? The many floors below the impact zone were in no way effected by the fire. Yet we see them vaporized into dust as the buildings collapse into their own footprint.

    No folks this is impossible. Therefore the entire government’s story is suspect and I would suggest total bullshit.
    I’ll admit that in the heat of the moment I fell for this lie. But what really got my attention was when I found out about the collapse of Building 7. A 57 story that was not hit by any “plane”. And yet it followed the same script as the Twin Towers. Use critical thinking Americans.

    I realize for many the truth about 911 is going to blow up their entire world view regarding the exceptionalness of the US and our good buddy Israel. But it is vital for the survival of our nation that the real criminals behind 911 be held accountable.

    Israel did 911 and they are our number one enemy.

    • Replies: @Z-man
  65. @AnonFromTN

    If so, AnonFromTn, while begging pardon for a Whataboutery argument, How does #2 differ from the activities of Israelis, that are supported by American taxpayers; and how does #3 differ from the activities of Americans toward Iran, whose government US / Israel has been seeking to topple and re-form to “western” preferences, since at least 1979? *

    Moreover, Desert Fox is partly (but only minimally-partly) correct in that zionist Jews and Allies set-up or duped or manipulated or otherwise used Germany to attempt to destroy Bolshevism in Russia, similar to the way that US used Saddam against Iran, then killed Saddam; used Soleimani against ISIS in Iraq, then killed Soleimani.

    So are the actions of USA / ZUSA excusable, unaccountable, but those of Germany were demonstrably not?

    Or should the American people remain warily alert for the next shoe to drop, when that “arc of justice” bends inexorably their way?

    * I still, perhaps stubbornly, maintain that Germany had far more justification for its actions in seeking to vanquish a political regime that was observably committing mass murder with the “imminent” danger of carrying out the same against the German people — as, in fact, was done; and that seeking to protect its people from starvation, of which 800,000 people had died within the present memory of surviving Germans, is an obligation of the state, a far more compelling obligation than that of “protecting American interests” 7000 miles from the homeland, when the homeland has more than adequate capacity to provide for its people, and when the interests being protected are those of a very few very rich individuals or corporations.
    Competing and trading fairly is far less costly than waging war, and not nearly so ignoble.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  66. @SolontoCroesus

    I am not trying to whitewash the Empire. Many of its actions are clearly criminal, including bombing of Serbia, the invasion of Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, assisting murderous Saudis in Yemen, etc. Assassination of Soleimani is yet another similarly criminal action, not the first and likely not the last.

    However, the criminality of the Empire does not justify Hitler in any way. His troops behaved in a totally barbaric manner in the former Soviet Union. I know that not from propaganda, but from the accounts of real people who lived through German occupation in 1941-44.

    The Empire being a criminal enterprise does not make the Third Reich any less criminal. FYI, bandits often clash with each other, and both sides in those clashes remain bandits.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
    , @L.K
  67. Agent76 says:

    Jan 13, 2020 Assassination-gate! Trump Officials Say No ‘Imminent Threat.’ With Guest Phil Giraldi

    Trump officials – including Trump himself today – have been steadily pulling back from initial claims after the January 3rd assassination of Iranian top general Soleimani that he was killed because of “imminent threats” of attack led by the Iranian.

    • Thanks: Z-man
    • Replies: @Z-man
  68. JamesinNM says:

    Pray for Christ’s return and the destruction of all evil.

    • Replies: @Zumbuddi
  69. @Paul

    “Noam Chomsky and the gatekeepers of the left ” is a chapter in Barrie Zwicker’s book “Towers of Deception “, this chapter is available in pdf format at 9/ .
    Zwicker argues that Chomsky “…In supporting the official story is at one with the right-wing gatekeepers such as Judith Miller of the New York Times …Chomsky’s function is identical to Miller’s: support the official story …Chomsky systematically engages in deceptive discourse on certain key topics such as 9/11 , the Kennedy assassination and with regard to the CIA . ..A study of Chomsky’s stands …show him to be a de facto defender of the status quo’s most egregious outrages and their covert agency engines …To the New World Order he is worth 50 armored divisions .”
    As filmmaker Roy Harvey has stated ” …the single greatest obstacle to the spread of 9/11 truth is the Left media .”

    • Replies: @Paul
  70. JamesinNM says:

    Make that plea as justification to Christ at the final judgement when your eternal destiny is being determined.

  71. Zumbuddi says:

    Years ago I was given the book, Prayers, by Michel Quoist.
    IIRC, the first page said, “Prayer is political action.”

  72. @GeeBee

    “If, as you claim, the flights actually took place, but no hijackers boarded them, how on earth did they fly into the twin towers?”

    Remote control – a proven and trusted technology.

    It could have been possible that some of the airline planes were electronically “switched” in mid-air, remotely flown with their beacons turned off, to simply disappear into the South Atlantic Ocean once their fuel ran out, while replaced by a fuel tanker in one case, to create a bigger fireball upon impact in Manhattan, or a much smaller plane to penetrate into the Pentagon.

    The public ought to demand a thorough investigation resulting in concrete answers and prosecutions.

    Some of the alleged hijackers were actually alive after the event and outraged to have had their identities stolen and misused.

  73. Herald says:

    Great article, but Craig is taking the easy way out on 9/11. Of course, the Arabs were Sunnis, but were bit players only, and no way was 9/11 Saudi led.

  74. I’m still waiting for WWIII to kick in. It was all the talk here last week when the world’s most awesome and noble general in the history of generals, Soleimani, was turned into hamburger helper, halal style. Would one of the umpteen experts-on-everything who comprise the bulk of the Unz commentariat please give me a rough time frame of when I can expect WWIII to commence? I need to get my bomb shelter resupplied with fresh Pop Tarts before hell is unleashed.

    • LOL: Republic
    • Replies: @Wally
  75. Z-man says:

    Hey, I despise Israel as much as anybody but as an engineer I tell you that the buildings were designed such that a pancake collapse could occur and it did. The fires from the planes melted the light weight space frame that was supporting the floors. When critical mass disappeared ‘shazam’, collapse. 7 WTC was right next to One WTC. When One collapsed a large amount of burning debris went flying into 7 which eventually brought that building down also.
    What I do believe is that the Israelis knew about the al-Qaeda plot and did nothing to inform US. They were also able to get as many of their landsmen out of there before the hit. That is despicable and we should treat Israel as a pariah nation.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  76. Herald says:

    if the rest of the world starting assassinating Americans based on the same grounds.

    The genie is out of the bottle now and it seems far from impossible that some Americans may become the targets of a number of different entities, some of which may not be the agents of any country.

    The danger also exists that this present situation is the ideal breeding ground for a false flag, instigated from within the US itself, or maybe in one of our best friends.

  77. Wally says:
    @c matt


    Double standards are the real issue here.

    See my comment #46.

  78. Wally says:
    @Gleimhart Mantooso

    “I’m still waiting for WWIII to kick in. It was all the talk here last week …”


    It’s all empty talk from the Pelosi set. *



    • Replies: @roonaldo
  79. @Just passing through

    Mr. Bethlehem displays the famous Jewish quality of chutzpah –

    Or is it the acknowledgement of reality. In 1971, Monty Pyhon’s Big Red Book was published, containing the doctrine of Llap Goch.
    As an early follower, I was aware that the troupe made fun of many characteristics by way of substitution e.g. the”News For Parrots” was about complaints from the non-Whites that they were portrayed negatively in the press. Then, as now, I believe Llap Goch was poking fun at the perpetual victim.

  80. Z-man says:

    All for the greater glory of Zion. (Puke)
    Pompeo now becomes a legitimate target of the Iranians.

  81. Mulegino1 says:

    However, the criminality of the Empire does not justify Hitler in any way. His troops behaved in a totally barbaric manner in the former Soviet Union. I know that not from propaganda, but from the accounts of real people who lived through German occupation in 1941-44.

    Please condense these claims to facts. Obviously, the Axis forces operating in the occupied territory of the USSR were not all boy scouts, and the reactions to partisan activity were oftentimes brutal (far less than the partisans’ actions themselves, I would wager). But what did the Germans and their allies do that was so beyond the pale of decency and civilized conduct of warfare? Did they incinerate entire cities via area bombing? Did they commit rape and murder on a massive scale as the Soviets did in East Prussia?

    Putting the torch to villages consisting mostly of thatched huts or executing partisans (or those deemed to be their enablers) was a brutal outgrowth of the uncivilized war on the eastern front due almost exclusively to Soviet barbarity. None of these actions were illegal under the rules for land warfare in force at the time.

    The occupation policies were not of a schizophrenic nature. The quite exemplary behavior of the German occupation forces in France, Denmark, Norway, the Channel Islands, etc., was not a fluke. If the Germans reacted more brutally in Poland and the USSR it was almost certainly due to partisan or underground activity.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  82. @Art

    Leave it to a Jew and his Bethlehem Doctrine, to crush the four centuries old Treaty of Westphalia

    Sorry, that was done by the All-Lies during WWII and the Treaty dismantled at Nuremberg. The Treaty stated specifically that all combatants were to be in uniform; combatants not in uniform were spies; those assisting spies were aiding and abetting and therefore also spies; and civilian casualties were to be avoided. Kind of puts the entire bombing campaign, the “heroic” underground, and the war criminal Einsatzgruppen in a different light, doesn’t it.

    Also missing from the article is that the US assassinated Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis, an Iraqi politician and military leader, at the same time as Suleimani. Even if the allegations against Soleimani were true, the US has executed an Iraqi politician in his own country. How does Pompous Ass Mike get around that one?

  83. @Been_there_done_that

    Some of the alleged hijackers were actually alive after the event and outraged to have had their identities stolen and misused.

    You mean like the Canadian and New Zealand governments when they found out their passports were being forged, by a “shitty little country” for intel and assassination work?

  84. @2stateshmustate, @9/11 Inside job, @Z-man

    No one can tell me why the Earth’s magnetic field changed dramatically during the 9/11 events.

    Something much more sinister than “controlled demolition” happened on 9/11.

  85. @Been_there_done_that

    Having been brainwashed by the mainstream media and the faked videos of planes hitting the Twin Towers on 9/11 , I suffered from cognitive dissonance when I first read about no planes hitting the World Trade Center on 9/11 . I am now convinced that what we saw on TV on 9/11 was a “Hollywood”
    production filmed beforehand and that the planes were likely computer generated images . See: :”Were the Naudet Brothers 911 insiders?” ” The central role of the news media on 9/11″
    “Planes without passengers : The faked hijackings of 9/11, 2nd edition” By Dean Hartwell

  86. Mulegino1 says:

    The towers did not “collapse”, they were disintegrated.

    No gravity collapse could have been responsible for the conversion of most of the structural steel and concrete of WTC 1 and 2 into dust.

    Likewise, the incineration of the metal components of vehicles in proximity to the WTC (vehicles which were nowhere near any fires) cannot be explained by such a collapse. Nor can the self-fueling fires at the basement and sub-basement levels which raged for months- the longest lasting structural fires in history.

    WTC 1,2, along with the hollowed out interior of WTC 6 and WTC 7 were destroyed by explosives of some type- possibly very small nuclear weapons.

    Some Israelis not only knew about the attacks, they executed them.

    • Replies: @Desert Fox
    , @Z-man
  87. @Mulegino1

    Partisan activity is a natural reaction of the populace to foreign occupation. In occupied Soviet territories German troops murdered anyone and claimed those murdered were partisans or their enablers. Naturally, 99% of the population hated the guts of the occupiers and wanted them dead. The behavior of German troops contributed to widespread resistance a lot more than Soviet authorities.

    It was the same with the US occupation of Vietnam. The behavior of the American troops made 99% of the Vietnamese hate them and want them dead. Again, this behavior made widespread resistance inevitable.

    BTW, where is the info about alleged Soviet atrocities in East Prussia and elsewhere? I mean info, not allegations and empty claims.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  88. Paul says:
    @9/11 Inside job

    Noam Chomsky is not a conspiracy theorist. The conspiracy theorists can never agree with each other on whose theory is correct. Chomsky points out that what is done is done right in front of you.

    • Replies: @9/11 Inside job
  89. Mulegino1 says:

    In occupied Soviet territories German troops murdered anyone and claimed those murdered were partisans or their enablers. Naturally, 99% of the population hated the guts of the occupiers and wanted them dead. The behavior of German troops contributed to widespread resistance a lot more than Soviet authorities.

    As I said, condense- or attempt to condense- these claims to facts a la “Babi Yar” (totally false hoax). Weren’t the Germans also accused of committing the Katyn massacres at the Nuremberg IMT?

    The Germans did not “murder anyone and claim they were partisans or their enablers.” If they had done so, the territory of occupation would be filled with gigantic mass graves and traces of human remains. As I said, the Germans could be brutal in their reprisals, but they had neither the time, the means or the motive for mass murdering those under their occupation.

    The Soviet atrocities in East Prussia were well documented, which is why the Kriegsmarine worked tirelessly to evacuate as many civilians as possible back to the west. As in all things, exaggerations and propaganda were operative at the time, and no doubt some of the excesses may have been “embellished” but Soviet atrocities were well known and fully documented.

    It is hard to argue about Soviet intentions when their chief propagandist, Ehrenburg, became famous for his “Don’t spend a day without killing a German” diatribes, which were never repudiated or denied. I would say that among the major belligerents the Germans were the least likely to commit mass murder.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Plato's Dream
  90. eah says:
    @Nonny Mouse

    I haven’t seen/found anything definitive online confirming Bethlehem is a Jew — ?

    • Replies: @Nonny Mouse
  91. @Mulegino1

    I think has the answer ie directed energy weapons were used to destroy WTC buildings 3, 4, 5, 6, and the twin towers, building 7 was a conventional demoliton.

  92. In a way, the big tech-media’s shut down of free speech on the internet was predated by transformation of journalism after the Vietnam War. It was with the Vietnam War that US journalists got something closer to total freedom to see and report what was really going on.
    The result, many felt, was loss of authority and defeat in the war. The Power wanted to change the nature of journalism, and many journalists felt a bit guilty for their role in America’s defeat, especially as Vietnam-Cambodia turned sour under communist victory. Also, as Jews gained total power in the US, they were less interested in speaking truth to power than protecting the power.
    Since the Gulf War, true journalism died in the battlefield. Mass Media and Military Industrial Complex became pretty much one and the same. And it’s hard to think of a truly big-budgeted anti-war movie made in the past 30 yrs. Mass media coverage of Iraq War, Libyan War, Syrian War, and etc have been utterly shameful.

  93. BL says:

    Mafia-style assassination . . . act of state terrorism . . . crime . . . criminal order.

    Okay — and that was in all of three sentences!

    What you characters are memory-holing, including fearless leader Utz, is this:

    Which isn’t the half of it in terms of the lead-up to the well justified killing of Soleimani. I get that this gaggle doesn’t like Trump but did you really expect him to continue to wait until Iran, through proxies, seized an American Embassy, holding Americans hostage until after the 2020 election, just as it did in 1980?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  94. @Been_there_done_that

    Re: Remote control.

    Christopher Bollyn, in his book “Solving 9-11, The Deception That Changed The World” speculates that the planes were in fact 747s that had been reconfigured / reengineered to operate as drones by remote control.

    He gives details on which Israeli company would have had the expertise to pull this off.

  95. @Mulegino1

    You are welcome to believe anything you want. After all, people believed all sorts of BS throughout human history.

    I don’t know about means, time, etc. I know for a fact that virtually every family in the occupied territories had someone murdered by German troops, often more than one person. For example, they shot the husband of my maternal grandfather’s sister for refusal to collaborate with them.

    I believe than anyone who on the occupied territory killed at least one German soldier was right. Those who killed more than one were right many times. Those who derailed German trains were right many times. Those who collaborated were hanged by “grateful citizens” after the liberation, and that was justice.

    After all, Germany invaded Soviet Union, not the other way around. And it got its deserts.

    • Agree: Cassandra
    • LOL: eah
  96. @BL

    People who don’t see anything criminal in an obvious crime do not deserve argument. The murder was actually committed, multiple murders, to be exact. What you say is empty talk, unsupported by evidence, and speculation about possible future events that DID NOT happen.

    Not to mention that there are rules of conduct. In particular, states are not supposed to act like ISIS or Al Qaida.

    By your logic, if Iran assassinates Orange clown, Plumpeo, or another bastard, rather than waiting for them to assassinate someone else, it would be 100% justified. Luckily, Iran is not engaging in state terrorism, only the US and Israel do that.

  97. What amazes me is that the idea of “law” still has any meaning. As if someone was going to say, “oh, okay he blew that mofo away for no reason but it’s okay because the Bethleham Doctrine says so.” It’s only when it is normal in civilized cities to recognize at a glance that the entire legal establiehment, lawyers, judges, and legislators should be crammed into the trash and the lid slammed on can I consider this even sane. “We are a nation of laws, not men.” So what! How long after the end of the Roman Empire is this fetish for law going to continue?

  98. Wally says:

    curiously said:
    “Limited Iranian response just shows that Iran government is sane, in sharp contrast to the US government.”


    – The ongoing massive Iranian protests against their government would beg to differ.

    Day 59 of Iran Protests: Anti-Regime Protests in Several Iranian Cities :

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  99. Avery says:

    { understanding just who and what Adolf Hitler really was, and especially his role in saving at least part of the West from Communism, is absolutely central to an appreciation of this awful world in which we now live.}

    And how did Hitler supposedly save ‘at least part of the West from Communism’?

    It was the landing of US, UK, et. al. that presumably prevented Stalin’s Red Army from rolling all the way to the Channel.

    In the event, Communists crushed the Nazi war machine and compelled Hitler to commit suicide.
    Hitler prevented nothing.
    Hitler is directly responsible for what Western Europe has become: a Globalist ruled, SorosaSwamp.
    Had Hitler been satisfied with Austria and Sudetenland, Germany today would not be an Anglo-American Globalist colony.
    Because of Hitler and the Nazis, something like 60 million Caucasians were killed*.
    That’s his legacy.

    A couple of more things:

    – Although it could not be known at the time, Communist rule over Eastern Europe prevented the injection of the SorosaVirus into its populace. Only Eastern European countries are now proud of their nationalities and Christian roots. (Communist indoctrination immunizes the body to all sorts of Western viruses)

    – Communism in Soviet Union collapsed on its own.

    – Chinese Communists still run China, but they are Communists in name only. They have embraced capitalism fully (with wise mods for China).

    – US lost ~60,000 men trying to defeat Vietnamese Communists, prevent “Dominos” and all that BS. Vietnamese Communists won. So how are things today? Vietnamese communist leaders are that in name only. Vietnam has become a market oriented, quasi-capitalist country trading with US. And the other day I read something really astonishing: apparently lots of US Vietnam vets are retiring in beautiful, low cost Viet Nam. How about that.

    And finally: while you (generic you) Hitler apologists are busy trying to rehabilitate him, Germany is being overrun and being subjected to SorosaReplacement of its native Germanic people with (Muslim) foreigners. Maybe you guys should work on that, instead of trying to glorify Hitler.

    * for this post I am not including the casualties in Asian theater.

  100. @Paul

    Agree that Noam Chomsky is not a conspiracy theorist , as Barrie Zwicker points out he’s a 9/11 gatekeeper .

    • Replies: @Paul
  101. @Wally

    Do you know a single country on Earth where every resident supports the government? I don’t. What’s more, in most countries the majority does not approve of the president and/or government, the US included. Do you know what fraction of the Iranian population supports the government? I don’t. Neither do you.

    If someone points to “occupy” protests and claims that most Americans are against their government, or to yellow jackets in France and claims that French are against their government, that someone would be cheating. That’s exactly what you are doing here.

  102. Z-man says:

    No gravity collapse could have been responsible for the conversion of most of the structural steel and concrete of WTC 1 and 2 into dust.

    A great deal of steel was recovered from the site and was recycled after being sent to the Fresh Kills land fill aka ‘dump’ in Staten Island.
    The concrete on most of the floors was lightweight concrete that did pulverize to a great extent on impact. But solid sections of it were also dug out and disposed of.
    There were many mechanical and electrical plants under ground at the WTC including a subway rail system (Path). Besides the fires from above, combustible material below ground also contributed to the smoldering that lasted months.
    I subscribe to a lot of conspiracy theories but to this I just know what I know.
    This is the last I will say on this subject.

  103. L.K says:

    Still spouting BS, Soviet style, about WWII, eh?

    Have you at least finally recognized that the Polish murdered at Katyn – and in other locations – were killed by the Soviet/NKVD or are you still LYING about it & claiming that the evil Germans did it, as you have shamefully done in recent past?

    You are joke.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  104. @eah

    Hmmm. Okay. Anyone else know if this fiend who acts like a Jew is not a Jew? And is Bethlehem really a surname? I thought it was the name of a town in Judaea.

  105. roonaldo says:

    It began some time ago–as the U.S.’s economic aggression (sanction the world) and regime change wars. China, Russia, and Iran are merely buying time as they modernize their weaponry and strengthen their defenses, while watching the U.S. weaken through corruption, imperial overreach, and the abject stupidity of the neolibcons. They would prefer a modicum of sanity to prevail in the West, but are not foolish enough to expect such.

    • Agree: AnonFromTN
  106. Paul says:
    @9/11 Inside job

    Barrie Zwicker is a conspiracy theorist — one of a number with different theories.

    • Replies: @9/11 Inside job
  107. So, let me get this right – the Bethlehem Doctrine is not about a new born child swaddled in a manger who will bring peace and goodwill among men? Oh, it is a 007 license to kill? Except the ones to be killed may or may not be planning anything?

    This is minority report without the per-cogs. Sorry, but the USA and its (((dual citizens))) have at this point become nothing more than a bunch of murdering psycho’s and gangsters. I hate to say it because I know there are lots of “righteous” Americans (and British) out there. May you find the strength to endure and fight this evil.

  108. @Paul

    Agree that Barrie Zwicker is a conspiracy theorist – “someone who believes in a conspiracy theory = the idea that an event or situation is the result of a secret plan made by powerful people ” The Cambridge dictionary .

  109. @L.K

    Although it is my rule not to respond to trolls and hopelessly brainwashed individuals, I am writing this for the honest readers with non-zero cognitive abilities.

    1. The story that NKVD shot those Polish officers was invented and first pushed by the Nazis. It took them some time (many months) to decide to pin this crime on the NKVD, but in the end they did.

    2. The material evidence of the exhumed bodies is inconsistent with NKVD doing the murders: a) documents and insignia were on the bodies, whereas NKVD invariably took these things away from all prisoners at the time of arrest or detainment; b) while many bullets found in mass graves were German types that were sold to the USSR before 1941, there were also high-caliber German bullets that were not, for the simple reason that they weren’t produced in Germany before the start of its war with the USSR.

    3. “Testimony” of the “survivor” before the US Congress was an obvious lie. That person claimed that one of the NKVD officers took him aside when the others were loaded to be transported to the place of execution. This could not have possibly happen. The best way of advancement in the NKVD was to snitch on your superior officer and have him arrested. No NKVD officer regardless of his views would have taken a prisoner aside in full view of his colleagues: by doing this, he would have signed his own death sentence.

    4. The “document” produced at the times of Gorby, purportedly being a memo from Beria with Stalin’s resolution on it, was a crude forgery. It did not adhere to the rules of such documents at the time. Soviet bureaucracy (just like the Nazi one) had very rigid rules, and anyone breaking them risked his life. An experienced courtier like Beria would have never risked submitting something to the emperor that did not conform to the rules. He had nothing to gain by doing so, and everything to lose. As we now know that some members of the last Soviet Politburo were CIA assets (e.g., Yakovlev), the motivation for this forgery and how it was pulled off is clear.

    There are many other inconsistencies with the theory that NKVD murdered those Polish officers, while all evidence is consistent with Gestapo doing this. Not because NKVD was good, but simply because it had its rules, which were different from the rules of Gestapo.

    • Agree: Plato's Dream
    • Troll: L.K
  110. Popeye says:

    So possibly other govts also adopted this Doctrine if not officially or in public.. I could imagine so. The Russian federation in terms of dealing with Chechen insurgency? The Chinese Govt in their repression/suppression of the Uighur protest movement in Sinkiang in western China? The Turkish Govt in dealing with Kurdish insurgency? The Indian Govt in dealing with protests in Jammu Kashmir? Perhaps others… file under: Food for thought

  111. @Mulegino1

    Ehrenburg’s famous line applied specifically to killing invaders in open combat, not to execution of civilians. You are a sick and twisted individual.

  112. Ron Unz says:

    1. The story that NKVD shot those Polish officers was invented and first pushed by the Nazis. It took them some time (many months) to decide to pin this crime on the NKVD, but in the end they did.

    Well, I’m extremely skeptical of your analysis…

    Consider that at Nuremberg, the Allies leveled the most totally ridiculous charges against the Nazis, including shrunken heads and human lampshades. Yet they balked at accepting the Soviet charges of Katyn, since absolutely everyone (certainly including the Poles) knew that the Soviets had been responsible.

    From everything I’ve read, the Germans conducted an absolutely scrupulous investigation of Katyn, bringing in neutral international observers, and the evidence overwhelmingly pointed to the Soviets based on the time-period and other factors. Also, I think that large numbers of the officers in question had originally been reported as Soviet prisoners but then “disappeared” a couple of years later. Didn’t the Stalin use the Polish accusations as an excuse to break relations with the government in exile? Indeed, I think I’ve read somewhere that the Soviets began promoting the “Holocaust” story partly as a means of deflecting attention from the reality of Katyn.

    I regard Prof. Stephen Cohen as a highly knowledgeable academic and also an honest one given that he’s been purged from our MSM for opposing the current demonization of Russia. During the late Cold War he was often vilified as pro-Soviet and he even wrote a friendly biography of Bukharin, arguing that the USSR might have turned out much better if he had been Lenin’s successor. After the archives were opened, his research suggested that the volume of Soviet killings was likely well north of 20 million, so Stalin’s slaughter of a few tens of thousands of “bourgeois” Polish officers in wartime would hardly be surprising:

  113. L.K says:
    @Ron Unz

    Unz, there is NO doubt about Soviet responsibility re Katyn at all, and this has been the case for many years now.
    The following is from Russian state media:
    Documents on Katyn massacre handed over to Poland

    Declassified documents showed that 22,000 Polish prisoners were killed in a special operation by NKVD police on March 5, 1940. In January 2011, the administration of the Russian president announced that the work to declassify the Katyn case documents is still in progress. When the work is completed, all materials are due to be handed over to the Polish side.

    All this has been pointed out by me to this ignorant and shameless liar, AnonFromTN, last year.

    All his comments re WW2 are vacuous, mendacious garbage. Check them out if you don’t believe me.

  114. @Ron Unz

    I am talking about material evidence, not what different liars make of it. I guess nobody in his right mind would suspect Nazis, the US, or Stalin of honesty.

    • Troll: L.K
    • Replies: @ivan
  115. Klaatu says:

    It should be noted that Daniel Bethlehem’s “doctrine” is NOT his creation, but well recognized Talmudic legal principal particularly as applied to an enemy, presumably Gentile.

  116. @AnonFromTN

    I have read the article LK is referring to. Seems fishy to me. There is such inconsistency there totally unbelievable. There were 14 thousand Polish officers captured brought to the Soviet side and 22 thousand of them executed. That claim is simply idiotic.
    This is according to Google news.
    But than what do you expect from Google news.
    Best reference you find on Wally’s website.
    Find there Hitler’s last speech before invading Poland.
    There Hitler complains that some Russian units moved into Lithuania.
    I have newer heard before that Germany and Soviet union did attack Poland simultaneously.
    That would mean that somewhere in the middle of Poland both armies would have been hugging each other..
    This is only western media claim of idiocy.
    Soviet army never did cross Polish border. So Polish army never surrounded to Russian army.
    It makes more sense that Edelwise did kill the Polish officers, because Germans realized that Polish officers could instigate uprising against German occupation.
    By killing the Polish officers Germans did realize that they did need less units leaving in Poland to keep law and order.
    Germans needed as many fighting man as they could attacking Soviet Union.
    Looks like they still did not have enough.

    p.s. Even historians are payed.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  117. ivan says:
    @Ron Unz

    I don’t understand why these Stalinists cannot accept such a well documented genocide of the Polish officer class by their hero Uncle Joe. Stalin if he chose to can put Hitler to the shade and this is one of them. It is pretty obvious that the Great Helmsman sought to destroy a large part of the Polish elite, so that the Poles would be deprived of any coherence in their quest for independence.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  118. ivan says:

    Just give it up Anon. You are just soiling yourself.

  119. @AnonFromTN

    Actually this story was invented in the middle of fifties by radio free Europe.
    Both radio free Europe, and voice of America blasted this B.S. story around time of Hungarian revolution. Later I was working with one repatriated announcer of Radio free Europe who told me that they did invent the story.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  120. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Could be. I am not a historian, and certainly not a historian of lies.

  121. @ivan

    Just to dot the “i”s and cross the “t”s. Stalin was no angel, to put it mildly. I don’t doubt that he’d order the execution of a few thousand people of any nationality without compunction, if he believed that it serves his interests. His secret services actually executed almost a million people as “counter-revolutionaries”, which means that Stalin saw them as a threat to his regime.

    However, the fact that a particular person is a murderer does not mean that this person is guilty of every murder ever committed. Each crime must be investigated independently to determine the guilty party. There were and are many mass murderers, and Hitler was one of them.

    • Replies: @ivan
  122. The claim that Soleimani was murdered is clownish. The man’s hands were red with American blood and he got what he had coming to him. He had been attacking Americans for years, and had played a large part in organizing the attack on the Baghdad Embassy, and act of war. The attack on the Embassy in Tehran was also and act of war that kicked of the 40 year war that has existed between the US and Iran.

    To reiterate, Soleimani got what he had coming to him. Trump was right to order his death.

    • Disagree: Desert Fox
  123. ivan says:

    Absolute rubbish. What do mean by saying that the Soviet Union did not invade Poland? They invaded on 17 September. Or are you arguing that since the Germans had already defeated Poland, Poland had already ceased to exist at the time the Soviets marched in? You know Russian bullshit still remains bullshit.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  124. ivan says:

    It is a very well documented event and as has been pointed out numerous times in many forums, even the so-called Allies balked when the Soviet Union brazenly tried to foist the crime onto the Nazis. Please : the Germans were on trial for a war that killed millions, adding 20 or 30 thousand more dead to their grizzly tally would not have made a difference; which in the event the Americans and British would have duly complied with if there was one iota of evidence that the Nazis were responsible.

    Ask yourself would the Polish government in exile, the generals Anders and the Sikorski tolerate such a humongous lie? They were enemies of both the Nazis and the Communists. They knew that both Hitler and Stalin conspired to carve up free Poland. They had no reason to foist the Katyn massacre onto the Soviets as a favour to the Nazis.

  125. @ivan

    You are so pathetic that you are contradicting yourself!
    I know that everybody can comment on this site. But please! try to evaluate what you are saying.
    And please? Have a little bit of shame.

    • Troll: L.K
  126. Anonymous[354] • Disclaimer says:

    So People-of-Nose finally agree that Adolf, Inc. was right to shoahize them…’cuz Julius Streicher said the Tribe was “imminently” going to shove Thoristan into the sea.

    Good to know.

  127. Israel declaring global war on ‘Anti-Semitism’ and BDS is the trickle down of Bethlehem Doctrine.

    Coming to your town, no law or border will be respected. Destroying bad-thinking gentiles who notice is a right of Israelites when it comes to preventing possible future harm to a tribe member.

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