The Unz Review • An Alternative Media Selection$
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 Scott Ritter Archive
Kramatorsk Train Station Attack
The key to finding the perpetrator lies in this overlooked detail
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • B
Show CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks
A fragment of a Tochka-U missile lies on the ground following an attack at the railway station in Kramatorsk, Ukraine, Friday, April 8, 2022. © AP Photo/Andriy Andriyenko
A fragment of a Tochka-U missile lies on the ground following an attack at the railway station in Kramatorsk, Ukraine, Friday, April 8, 2022. © AP Photo/Andriy Andriyenko

Kiev and its Western backers immediately blamed Russia for the incident, but a proper investigation is likely to disagree

In a conflict where accusations of wrongdoing fly back and forth between Russia and Ukraine on a daily basis, when it comes to the missile attack on the Kramatorsk train station that occurred at 10:30am on April 8, 2022, both sides are in rare agreement – the missile used was a Tochka-U, a Soviet-era weapon known in the West by its NATO reporting name as the SS-21 Scarab, and in the former Soviet republics that use the weapon by its GRAU designation, 9K79.

Beyond that one technical piece of information, however, any semblance of unanimity regarding the narrative surrounding how that missile came to strike a bustling railway station, killing and wounding dozens of civilians desperately trying to evacuate from eastern Ukraine in anticipation of a large-scale Russian offensive, collapses, with each side blaming the other. Making this tragedy even more bizarre, the Russian words Za Detei – “for the children” – had been hand-painted on the missile in white.

The Tochka made its appearance in the Soviet military in 1975. A single-stage, solid-fuel tactical ballistic missile, the Tochka was assembled at the Votkinsk Machine Building Plant before being delivered to the Soviet Army, where it was further disseminated to the various units equipped with the system. An improved version of the Tochka, known as the Tochka-U (Uluchshenny, or “improved”) was introduced in 1989; the improvements included increased range and accuracy.

The Tochka-U operates as a simple inertially-guided ballistic missile. Simply put, the operators, working from a known location, orient the launcher in the direction of their target, and then calculate the distance between the point of launch and point of impact. The solid-fuel engine of the Tochka-U burns for 28 seconds, meaning that the range of the missile isn’t determined by engine burn-time alone, but rather the angle that the missile was launched – the more vertical the missile at time of launch, the shorter its range will be.

Because the missile burns to depletion, once the engine shuts down, the missile will cease its pure ballistic trajectory, and instead assume a near-vertical posture as it heads toward its target. The warhead is released at a designated point above the target. In the case of the Kramatorsk attack, the Tochka-U was equipped with the 9N123K cluster warhead, containing fifty submunitions, each of which has the effect of a single hand grenade in terms of explosive and lethal impact.

The flight characteristics of the Tochka-U result in a debris pattern which has the cluster munitions impacting on the ground first, followed by the depleted booster, which hits the earth some distance behind the impact of the warhead. This creates a tell-tale signature, so to speak, of the direction from where the missile was launched, which can be crudely calculated by shooting a reverse azimuth from the point of impact of the warhead through the booster.

It is this physical reality which provides the first real clue as to who fired the Tochka-U that hit Kramatorsk. The relationship of the booster when it came to earth, when assessed to the impact zone of the cluster munitions, provides a reverse azimuth which, even when factoring in a generous margin of error for potential drift, points to territory that was under the excusive control of the Ukrainian government, which means that there is little doubt that the missile that struck the Kramatorsk train station was fired by a launcher under the operational control of the 19th Missile Brigade, Ukraine’s only Tochka-U-equipped unit. More specifically, a forensic evaluation of the missile debris clearly shows that it was launched by the 19th Ukrainian Missile Brigade, based near Dobropolia, some 45 kilometers from Kramatorsk.

The 19th Missile Brigade is considered a strategic asset, meaning that it responds directly to the orders of the Ukrainian Ground Forces Command. In short, if the missile was, as it appears, fired by the 19th Missile Brigade, it was doing so based on orders given from high up the chain of command. The launch was no accident.

Attack on a railway station in Kramatorsk, Ukraine on April 8 2022. © Getty Images / Andrea Carrubba
Attack on a railway station in Kramatorsk, Ukraine on April 8 2022. © Getty Images / Andrea Carrubba

For its part, the Ukrainian government has attempted to flip the script, blaming Russia for an attack using a missile which Russia is on record as having retired from service in 2019. To back up this assertion, the Ukrainian government has noted that Tochka-U launchers were seen participating in joint military training exercises involving Russian and Belarus forces on Belarusian soil in February 2022, on the eve of Russia’s special military operation commencing against Ukraine.

This was according to Ambassador Evgeny Tsimbaliuk, the Permanent Representative of Ukraine to the International Organizations in Vienna, while addressing a special meeting of the OSCE Permanent Council about the attack.

The US backed up the Ukrainian allegation, with its Department of Defense announcing during a closed-door briefing to journalists that Russia had at first announced the missile strike against Kramatorsk, only to retract it once the announcement about civilian casualties was made.

The problem with both the Kiev and Washington claims is that neither is backed up by anything that remotely resembles solid evidence. The television images referred – to by the Ukrainians showed Belarusian Tochka-U launchers, not Russian ones, and the “claims” cited by the US referred to the private Telegram accounts of persons having no affiliation with the Russian government or military.

There is no question that both Russia and the US are sitting on de facto proof of where the Tochka missile was fired. The US has deployed in the region a variety of intelligence-collection platforms which would have detected the location of the missile at the time of launch, and would also have tracked the ballistic trajectory of the missile as it flew toward its target. Likewise, Russia has deployed numerous advanced surface-to-air missile defense systems, including the advanced S-400, which would have tracked the flight of the missile from launch to impact.

The fact that the US has not declassified this data to replicate a Cuban missile crisis-like moment at the UN to demonstrate to the world the scope and scale of a Russan lie strongly suggests that the Russians are not, in fact, lying. Moreover, Russia’s failure to do the same to reinforce its contention that Ukraine fired the missile points to the reality that any Russian radar is operating as part of an active military action zone, and as such Russia would be loath to publish data that could provide Ukraine with a tactical edge on the battlefield.

There is, however, one piece of evidence which proves without a doubt who owned the Tochka-U missile in question that was fired on Kramatorsk, the release of which would not compromise the security interests of the providing nation. Painted onto the booster of the missile, in black, is a unique serial number assigned to the Tochka-U at the time of production (in the Cyrillic alphabet, Ш91579, or Sh91579 in the Latin alphabet.) This serial number was assigned to it at the Votkinsk Machine Building Plant and represents the unique identifying mark for the missile that follows it through its military life cycle.

Some volunteers look for traces to help identify the corpses at Kramatorsk railway station after the missile attack in Kramatorsk, Ukraine on April 09 2022. © Getty Images / Andrea Carrubba
Some volunteers look for traces to help identify the corpses at Kramatorsk railway station after the missile attack in Kramatorsk, Ukraine on April 09 2022. © Getty Images / Andrea Carrubba

The use of the production serial number as a unique identifier has been used by the United Nations in Iraq as part of a series of intrusive forensic investigations into the accounting of Iraq’s SCUD missile inventory. The UN used these numbers to track the arrival of Soviet-made SCUD missiles into Iraq, and to account for their final disposition, whether it be through unilateral destruction at the hands of the Iraqis, during training, during maintenance, or during combat operations. The procedures used by the Iraqis for tracking and accounting for its SCUD missiles was derived from official Soviet procedures for the same, and therefore mirror those used by the Ukrainian government.

The serial number of the Tochka-U shows that it was produced in 1991, during the time of Soviet authority. At that time, when a Tochka-U was fully assembled at the Votkinsk Machine Building Plant, it belonged to the Ministry of Defense Industry. The missile would be shipped by rail from the Votkinsk Machine Building Plant to a receiving point, where the Soviet military would take possession of the missile and formally absorb it into its inventory. Each missile is accompanied by a document known as a “passport,” which records every transaction associated with the missile in question. The missile would either be assigned to an operational unit or to a storage unit – again, details that would be recorded in the missile passport.

Each missile had a life span of ten years, after which the manufacturer’s warranty, so to speak, was no longer valid. That meant that a missile produced in 1991 would, under normal circumstances, be retired by 2001. However, the Russian military has often extended the operational lifetime of missiles such as the Tochka-U by implementing inspection procedures designed to extend the lifecycle of the missile. Each such inspection would be recorded in the passport, as would all operational deployments or field exercises where the missile was subjected to handling and movement.

Before a missile is fired, it is formally removed from the owning unit’s inventory, and orders are issued authorizing its use by the Ukrainian General Staff which include the serial number in question. When the missile is launched, the missile passport is closed out, and included with the other paperwork associated with the expenditure of the missile. The missile serial number is recorded at each step.

The Russian military should have in its archives documentation which lists the Tochka-U missiles officially turned over to Ukraine when the Soviet Union collapsed. Likewise, the Ukrainian military should have documents which record the missiles being absorbed into the Ukrainian armed forces. In either case, there exists undisputed records of ownership. Russia could end the discussion of who owned the missile in question simply by providing document-based evidence proving missile ownership (i.e., the transfer of ownership from the Soviet Union to Ukraine.) Likewise, Ukraine could do the same simply by providing a copy of the documentation surrounding its receipt of all Tochka-U missiles from Soviet authority, thereby enabling – if the Ukrainian version is to be believed – that it never possessed the missile in question.

A view of the scene after over 30 people were killed and more than 100 injured in an attack on a railway station in Kramatorsk on April 8 2022. © Getty Images / Andrea Carrubba
A view of the scene after over 30 people were killed and more than 100 injured in an attack on a railway station in Kramatorsk on April 8 2022. © Getty Images / Andrea Carrubba

Ukraine’s embattled President Volodymyr Zelensky has declared that the missile strike on Kramatorsk “must be one of the charges at the tribunal” he envisages at the International Criminal Court. “Like the massacre in Bucha, like many other Russian war crimes.”

Zelensky might want to be careful about what he wishes for. Any serious investigation into the Kramatorsk train station bombing will include an inquiry into the missile involved, and questions of ownership in which the missile serial number inscribed on the booster will play a leading role. If this is indeed the case – and the available evidence strongly suggests that it is – then it will be Zelensky and his leadership on the docket for the crime of slaughtering the very civilians whose lives he claims to be protecting.

Scott Ritter is a former US Marine Corps intelligence officer and author of ‘SCORPION KING: America’s Suicidal Embrace of Nuclear Weapons from FDR to Trump.’ He served in the Soviet Union as an inspector implementing the INF Treaty, in General Schwarzkopf’s staff during the Gulf War, and from 1991-1998 as a UN weapons inspector.

(Republished from RT by permission of author or representative)
 
Hide 149 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. First ever article in UR for Scott Ritter! Thank you, Mr. Unz!

  2. Notsofast says:

    any serious investigation……unless that “serious”investigation is lead by the dutch.

  3. Anon62 says:

    Agreed.

    Please request Mr Ritter to provide ongoing coverage of the RF phase II.
    Also his observations on possible NATO response and trggers for WWIII.

    I recognize the above may be unlikely but no one forecast the outbreak of WW I in August 2014.

    The outbreak of WWII in Europe was also unexpected and while the US had forwarning of the events of December 7 1941 they too assert total surprise.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  4. Wokechoke says:

    Interesting technical information. How good do you think the Ukie paperwork really is? Lol. These scammers are clearly selling the gear to make profit and have been for years. The weapons sent to the Zelenskyy Boys have been auctioned away.

    More important. Looks like the Russians are pouring troops in the direction of Lyman, from the northern area Of the Luhansk Oblast, Lyman is now a strategic junction between the Ukrainian prepared fortifications in Sverodonetsk and Kramatorsk. There’s a bridge of Ukie Airborne getting annihilated between Izyum and Torske,

    There’s also a break in the Ukrainian line in Popyansksomethingorother (sp) three or four Ukrainian brigades look like they are getting trapped in those bunkers and trenches in the next few days with fresh supply cut off.

    Barinkove looks like it’ll be flattened soon.

    All this leads up to Kramatorsk which is clearly going to be under direct siege soon. Two weeks one week? The Russians are moving rapidly again. The Ukies tried to replicate Manstein and Kleist in a forlorn breakout from Kharkov.

    Missile in a train station? Pffffttt

  5. Wokechoke says:
    @Anon62

    I thought it would start once Biden was elected. Expected the Royal Navy attack on Sevastopol in 2021 to be the start of it though. But that buccaneering show did convince Putin to prepare invasion of Ukraine anyway. So we could say it was predictable as soon as the Royal Navy razzed the famous port in Crimea. At that point Putin knew he’d have to pour in his military to secure Crimea and defeat the Ukrainian field army. The scale of which shocked almost everyone apart from the British MOD. I have to admit they have provided good info throughout unlike the British newspapers and the US authorities.

  6. dimples says:

    As I recollect the Russians provided documentation showing that the BUK missile which shot down MH-17 had been allocated to an Ukrainian unit and thus was not theirs. This documentation was written in pencil which is perhaps normal in Russia but seemed to leave somewhat of a credibility gap in my mind. Nonetheless, this documentation was studiously ignored by all and sundry. Perhaps therefore they feel that producing any documentation about the Tochka missile is only going to produce cries of ‘fake’ ‘fake’ and so they do not bother.

  7. A professional and accurate explanation, and composed in a competent tone, articulate and coherent.

    But a little late.

  8. repugnant says:

    There is no such thing as a “serious investigation” by the West. It’s all propaganda.

  9. Wokechoke says:
    @dimples

    the separatists probably did shoot it down, however, they were probably aiming elsewhere.

    • Disagree: Ukraine Tiger
  10. Rich says:

    Zelensky has allowed his soldiers to be butchered in senseless, already lost battles like that in Mariupol. He doesn’t appear to care about his men at all, ordering them not to surrender, putting them in untenable situations against a much better armed force. The battle in the East is far from over, but all indications are that the Ukrainians will suffer a horrible defeat. Why those troops weren’t moved to more defensible positions further to the West makes no sense . I might be missing something, but it looks like a lot of men are going to die unnecessarily. The obvious staged incident in Bucha makes any claim by Zelensky and his crew unbelievable. As always, the victor will write the history. Let’s hope the Russians, if they are victorious, behave in an honorable manner, and not in the manner the Allies behaved after WW2 with the kangaroo Nuremberg trials.

  11. Wokechoke says:
    @Rich

    Severodonetsk salient defense is rumored to be collapsing now that Russians from the north have probed into Lyman cutting off supply routes.

  12. anonymous[322] • Disclaimer says:

    Time for Malaysia to demand probe of its plane that went down after being hit over the Ukrainian sky . Ukraine did it and blamed it on other.

  13. @dimples

    In the U.S., surveying field notes are always written in pencil, because ink will run if it gets wet. No erasures are permitted, only crossouts and corrections. The Russians may have similar rules for the same reason. Soldiering is a wet and dirty business.

    • Thanks: Sarah
    • Replies: @animalogic
  14. Wokechoke says:

    Best Analysis of the battle of Ukraine.



    Video Link

    • Replies: @antitermite
    , @nokangaroos
  15. Right_On says:

    Two questions:

    1) So the Ukrainians launched the missile strike as a false-flag op and because they believed too many of the denizens of Kramatorsk were Russian sympathizers? (The rocket could, of course, have malfunctioned or been badly aimed.)

    2) Would it be expected that the wording “for the children” on the booster would survive both the flight and impact? If not, then unless the text was scrawled on the fragment after the event, it suggests it initially implied: “This is in revenge for all our children you bastards have killed.” That would be the case whichever side fired the missile. It was more a “blessing” on the device than a message to anyone.

  16. Antiwar7 says:

    Murdering their own civilians is typical behavior of American allies, in Ukraine, Syria, and Bosnia. Despicable.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  17. Dumbo says:

    What proof do the Ukrainians need? Their puppet government can just say, “Bucha”, or “Russians bombed a train station/maternity ward/school”, or “Putin is personally drinking the blood of children” and the media will run with it. No proof needed. It’s all a joke. So far, everything from the Ukrainian side has been lies, obfuscations or unfounded accusations. Nothing of substance. While the Russians have posted a lot of video evidence from abuses of civilians on the Ukrainian side.

    • Agree: Old and Grumpy
  18. Karl1906 says:

    Everybody knows that this is NOT about the truth. And also that Russia and Putin are not the United States murdering civilians left and right during their military “interventions” – 6 million civilians over 30+ years to be specific. No, this is ONLY about propaganda first and foremost. Officially, to keep the shipping of useless and obsolete weapons to the lost cause of Zelensky going on for another couple of weeks – for more cash. And Western public in the dark about the truth that Ukraine is done.

    No, Western media and their puppet masters think they can pull the same number with Russia (and Putin) as with their opposition at home – e.a. claim ANY lie and crime and then ignore ANY fact that’s countering the “narrative”. Call out the opposition as “nazis” and “racists” and “shills and sock puppets from Moscow and/or Beijing”. Write nasty hit pieces to make the usual lunatics, “Antifa”- and “BLM”-goons attack the opposition in force and by force. And then drop the topic altogether and ignore it as soon as the public opinion flips and proof is widely available.

    Alas, this does not work on the bigger stage with a nation like Russia. Because they don’t care. And it also doesn’t work with the majority of the REST of the world. Because they don’t have the Brain-Wash&Go we have here. Besides, who trusts US-goons in a proxy war anyway? They’re always “like master, like slave” when it comes to mass murder, torture, theft, fraud and lies.

  19. @Wokechoke

    it’s a pretty good summary, as are the other assessments on his bitchute.

    I would think though that the Azovstal defenders will be under direct orders to hold out till after May 9th (a political benchmark).

    Since the steelworks is the size of a small suburb (counting 8 levels deep), designed to withstand nuclear attack, and potentially have months of supply (if it was a predetermined hill to die on), the Russian army is going to have to dig them out.

    The Azov arrogance in dictating terms of surrender underline the Nazi ethos: there is no way they can afford to fall into the clutches of the Russian “orcs”, not least because a good proportion of them will be tried as war criminals.

    The most deluded of them still expect rescue from some “3rd party”.
    Reminds me of the Deus ex Machina in LotR: “ghosts of Mariupol” perhaps?

    • Replies: @Levtraro
    , @Ukraine Tiger
  20. RobinG says:

    Scott, you are a hero of the info war, but I doubt you have time to read comments.

    I’ve been looking for this rescue… This is a re-post. Yes, those are Chechens, and yes, they had to break through the cement floor to rescue these women who had been sealed in the basement when the Banderites set up their heavy gun there. Later, one of the women posted a video saying she’d never forget her Chechen savior whose last name was Timur.

    “Genocidal” Russian soldiers save civilians trapped in basement by Azov

    • Thanks: Old and Grumpy
  21. @repugnant

    A serious investigation OF “the West” would result in discovering that “the West” never conducts “a serious investigation” the results of which could even remotely conclude that it or any of its Deep State manipulators and/or its puppeteers are responsible.
    It’s enough to give one a serious case of Heebies’ Jeebies.

  22. “Because the missile burns to depletion, once the engine shuts down, the missile will cease its pure ballistic trajectory, and instead assume a near-vertical posture as it heads toward its target.”

    The quoted portion, above, is not correct. At no stage, unless the initial angle of launch is very high(near suicidally so), will the warhead’s (or complete missile before separation) descent be vertical. Once separated the high-density warhead will continue in a quasi-parabolic trajectory. The much lower density, high-drag, spent booster body will soon reach a near vertical descent.

    The above is not meant as a criticism of the article, which is good and with which I agree, but it is the sort of thing that the criminal western MSM will use to “discredit” the whole.

    There can not be the slightest doubt that the Ukies did it.

  23. “…The Russian military should have in its archives documentation which lists the Tochka-U missiles officially turned over to Ukraine when the Soviet Union collapsed. Likewise, the Ukrainian military should have documents which record the missiles being absorbed into the Ukrainian armed forces. In either case, there exists undisputed records of ownership. Russia could end the discussion of who owned the missile in question simply by providing document-based evidence proving missile ownership (i.e., the transfer of ownership from the Soviet Union to Ukraine.)…”

    So why don’t the Russians just do that? They seem not to be very media savvy.
    They also failed to prove to the world that the Malaysian plane was shot down by the Ukrainians.

    • Replies: @dimples
    , @Iris
  24. Zelensky and his entire government plus every leader in NATO and the EU should be handed over to the Chechens for special treatment when this war is over. I’d love to see the look on Zelensky’s face when he’s being handed over to Ramzan Kadyrov personally by Putin.

  25. Mike-SMO says:

    Funny that the “Buk” anti-aircraft missile vehicle that downed the Mayasian commercial transport was leaving Russia and returning minus one missile. (Damned cell phones are everywhere). ( Sorry, the link went up is smoke with an old computer. Belling cat as I recall.)

    The Kramatorsk railroad murders showed the missile engine to the southwest of the station. In the Ukraine, engines and nose cones of smaller cluster munition armed rockets land beyond the impact area. In photos of the missile attack on the Russian landing ships (Beldansk?) the missile body also falls beyond the cluster munition impact zone. Thus the railroad missile may have come from Russian forces.

    This is what is called a war. Anything that one party, e.g. Russia, tells the media is propaganda and lies. To the Russians, the Ukrainians are Nazis. Putin was an ex-Major in the KGB. So what if there are a few field executions or terror strikes on fleeing Nazis?

    Pro-Russian units in the east went over to the “dark side” (Russians). Anyone could have any piece of equipment. They all wear the same uniforms. “Documentation” is better used as toilet paper.

    Russia, as Soviets or Bolsheviks, starved 6-12 million Ukrainians to death (Holodomor) in the 30s. Why do you think that they would hesitate do any less to “Nazis” now?

    In addition, the Russian invasion is clearly designed to secure the gas monopoly that Russia has on the European gas supply. The gas reserves in eastern Ukraine and under the waters around the Crimea could trash the Russian gas stranglehold on Europe. The prattle about NATO, missiles and Russian history is just theater for the rubes.

    I am still trying to figure out how the missiles got past the Moskva’s CIWS 30 mm Gatling guns. That is a competent and usually automatic defensive system that should have trashed the incoming missiles. Something is going on.

  26. once the engine shuts down, the missile will cease its pure ballistic trajectory, and instead assume a near-vertical posture as it heads toward its target

    “ballistic” is the way a ball flies. Before the engine shuts down, the missile is in powered flight. Then the missile BEGINS its pure ballistic trajectory. And I’m saying nothing about its posture.

    • Agree: V. K. Ovelund
  27. @Rich

    Yes, its extremely arrogant for a civilian politician to tell soldiers in a hopeless situation not to surrender. Can’t he at least leave it up to the military commanders at the battlefront? And then you have mainstream “conservative” idiots like Boris Johnson cheering on this insanity.

    You’d think the centre-right in the West would just sit back and watch the left destroy itself with infighting and greenflation, but no, they want to self-destruct as well by surrendering to the green left and throwing money at callous and dysfunction regimes like the one in Western Ukraine.

    Seems like everyone on the mainstream right wants to have their “weapons of mass destruction” moment.

  28. @Rich

    Poor Zelensky! How can he fight a war when so many Ukrainians are killing so many Ukrainians? And might turn on the Jews and kill them. Thank Goodness Putin is bringing Peace, Freedom, and Democracy to the Ukraine! This US war has lasted so many years already.

  29. Adûnâi says: • Website

    The Ukrainians are denying the Belgorod & Bryansk oblast attacks – the Russians are denying their involvement in the Kramatorsk missile strike. It’s all so tiresome. Why deny the deaths of your enemy? A bunch of Christcucks… Yes, the Ukrainians could have bombed it – likewise, the Russians could have bombed Donetsk in March 2022, so what? It’s dangerously schizophrenic and counter-productive to see false-flags everywhere. And waste those precious missiles on your own people, all for the sake of a cheap newspaper trick? As if the Ghost of Kiev story required any semblance of plausibility!

    Regarding the current state of the war – here is a decent video made by a Russian terrorist Girkin-Strelkov (in Russian). Anyone who expects a Russian success in Kursk 2.0 is delusional.
    https://www.brighteon.com/3477dbe8-190d-498d-bdac-4551a3ccff70

  30. Horus says:

    Hmm if the Tochka U is no longer in service as Russia is claiming why were they parading it in Krasnodar 11 months ago???

    Search YouTube for мая 2021 года. Парад Победы в Краснодаре and go to 42 minutes. You will a Tochka U on parade.

    Clearly this system is still in some kind of use by Russia.

    • Replies: @Badger Down
  31. @Notsofast

    Like the Lockerbie FARCE where two Libyans were arraigned on fraudulent ‘evidence’ over a ‘conspiracy’ and one acquitted, the other convicted. A ‘conspiracy’ of one, apparently.

  32. @Right_On

    Interesting questions – here’s a layman’s view…

    1) The Ukrainians launched the missile strike as a false flag to turn world opinion against Russia – period. The loyalties and welfare of the citizens involved was immaterial – they were expendable.

    2) Yes, the wording scrawled on the booster would invariably survive both the flight and the impact. No trauma beyond air friction and a free fall drop onto a soft lawned area was experienced by this object, as evidenced by the photograph.

    • Agree: JR Foley
    • Replies: @Bombercommand
  33. @Jorflyrips

    In addition, the pencil, like a pen, will leave indentations into the paper — so not difficult forensically to determine the writing if it’s been rubbed out. (scratching out would be much trickier)

  34. At least this article does not repeat the false claim that Russia no longer uses these weapons. They were deployed in the initial attack on 24th February. One such missile struck just outside a hospital in Vuhledar, killing four civilians and injuring another 10.

    https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/russian-military-commits-indiscriminate-attacks-during-the-invasion-of-ukraine/

    This article from a pro-Western intelligence source argues against over-interpretation of the serial number and impact position of the missile body in Kramatorsk:

    https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2022/04/14/russias-kramatorsk-facts-versus-the-evidence/

    • Troll: mulga mumblebrain
    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  35. Molip says:

    Where’s the surprise? Even the New York Times reported:

    To Push Back Russians, Ukrainians Hit a Village With Cluster Munitions (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/18/world/europe/ukraine-forces-cluster-munitions.html)

    “… at least two people were killed as Ukrainian forces shelled [Husarivka, their own town] for the better part of month, targeting Russian forces.”

    “… the Ukrainians’ decision to saturate their own village with a cluster munition that has the capacity to haphazardly kill innocent people underscores their strategic calculation …”

  36. pq says:

    I still have a problem with that last photo of the person lying there with the red paint around their head. Maybe there were people killed and maybe there was an actual attack, but that photo is totally staged. How on earth is it possible to be killed by a missile and your clothes, and all the luggage and the ground around it show no evidence of anything at all?
    There was a horrifying strike in Donetsk and you only have to compare the pictures of that with the one above to know that the one above is a staged photoshoot. So then the question is why?

  37. @Wokechoke

    Interesting … are the Jews really that delusional?

    – The war is not real (i.e. not touching the Jewish soul), torture and murder are a game,
    the goyim cannot question the inviolability/sacrosanctimoniousness of the
    Secular Body of Yahu, the lives of ten thousand goyim are worth less than a
    Jew´s toenail (o-tone Ovadia Yossef), we want to be flown out and interned
    in a third country (yeah, right) that does not extradite (three guesses), Ze has
    already warned the goyim all options are off the table if a lock on our heads is curled.

    In away it is strangely amusing – at least they are consistent.

    • Thanks: true.enough
  38. j2 says:

    “Because the missile burns to depletion, once the engine shuts down, the missile will cease its pure ballistic trajectory, and instead assume a near-vertical posture as it heads toward its target.”

    After the missile burns its fuel, it will continue a ballistic trajectory. Everything in the missile will continue along a ballistic trajectory, but each subpart has its own air resistance that determines how far it moves vertically.

    “The warhead is released at a designated point above the target. In the case of the Kramatorsk attack, the Tochka-U was equipped with the 9N123K cluster warhead, containing fifty submunitions, each of which has the effect of a single hand grenade in terms of explosive and lethal impact.”

    At c. 2200 m the missile breaks into the engine and several pieces of subammunition. It happens to be so that air resistance is larger if the proportion of surface area to the weight is larger (consider throwing a stone or the same weight feather pillow, the stone goes further). As the subammunition has many parts, it has a larger proportion of surface area to weight and it will move vertically shorter distance than the engine. The result is that the engine falls to a position that is further from the launching point. In the case of Kramatorsk Tochka-U the engine is to the South-West from the center of subammunition landing sites proving that the missile was shot from the North-East.

    The position of the booster on the ground gives no information because after the subammunition is released, the engine is unstable and can very easily turn in the air.

  39. Wokechoke says:
    @Right_On

    1. Yes. It’s possible but unlikely it was a mistake or malfunction.

    2. Fir the children implies it’s designed to kill civilians and young obeys at that. It strongly implies a clumsy false flag. Why not scrawl , “for Putin” or “for Bucha” instead… Children scrawled on the theatre in Mariupol looked odd too. “Civilians” might have been better.

    Anyway, it’s pretty clear the Russians want to drive out the Krainian ethnics from certain areas. The war has a genocidal character. A lot of these disputes about individual incidents are for legal battles post conflict. Only the losers get victors justice in the end as well. Woe to the Vanquished.

    • Replies: @dimples
    , @V. K. Ovelund
  40. Always good to see Scott Ritter, especially good to see him at Unz. As always, expert reportage involving weapons, which has been his career bailiwick. Thanks also to Scott on the update at Mr. Martyanov’s site regarding Gonzalo Lira.

    I don’t know if Scott is going to have ‘yellow page’ communications back to comments, but I’d ask, did Scott go to Russia to help in the disposition of these cluster-munition weapons in the former Soviet Republics as one-by-one these became NATO outposts? Or were his talents utilized only in the realm of disposition of nuclear weapons in those republics? I’d be curious if his work involved verifying the closure of Soviet-era biolabs in those republics after the fall. Also, would Scott participate if commissioned for international investigations of the U.S. biolabs, another DOD answering-point?

    Also, assuming there were an international tribunal convened on the atrocities of this thing, particularly the execution by Azov and other elements of the UAF of their own civilians and soldiers for surrendering, an issue Zelenski on up surely should answer for, would Scott participate in those? That would start of course on the use of the cluster munitions described here.

    At some point, doesn’t Scott become an Assange-like target for his reportage on these issues? The Deep State is like Mother Nature in that regard, when it comes to the truth of these matters.

    Be careful out there, kiddo. I’d hate for us to have “what happened to Ritter” threads all over. This, for telling the truth about what they’ve done and spent in our name, quite without asking us, the little people, what WE think about it (I include our Congress-Critters in this, since THEY are supposed to be the gatekeepers).

  41. gotmituns says:

    Outstanding article. This goes to show how backwards the Russians are to allow such an intellectual thought process to appear on their website (first appeared on RT.com). Also, Mr. Ritter’s use of compass terms such as, “reverse azimuth” brings back memories of my own time as a young Marine in the field as a forward observer in Vietnam. I wonder if compass’ are still in use in this digital age. They might use position finder now bouncing coordinates off sattlelites now.

    • Thanks: GMC
  42. Levtraro says:
    @Rich

    Why those troops weren’t moved to more defensible positions further to the West makes no sense .

    Because moving them to more defensible positions to the west would entail giving away the whole of the Donbass to the DPR and LPR, which kind of defeats the purpose of putting those troops there in the 1st place, don’t you think?

    • Agree: Jim Christian
    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    , @Rich
  43. @James N. Kennett

    Amnesty AND Bellingcrap??!! You are fecking joking, surely, troll.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  44. @Levtraro

    Because moving them to more defensible positions to the west would entail giving away the whole of the Donbass to the DPR and LPR, which kind of defeats the purpose of putting those troops there in the 1st place, don’t you think?

    Quite right, Lev. The question even being asked indicates a mis-informed inquiry to begin with, no? But that’s out media for ya. Have a like. The Ukies/Azov army in the Donbass numbers (or numbered) 60,000 troops on up. They intended to do a slaughter/genocide in Donbass that would have equaled the Armenian genocide. That’s why they were sent there, years ago, a decade. That’s a large part of Russia’s involvement and reasoning justifying the SMO.

    Seems to me, once Russia got the show on the road, those folks were trapped, paralyzed, pinned down. Frankly, all over the theater, an objective view of maps indicates to all but idiots the Ukies have been pinned down from the start without support, merely waiting to be destroyed, one region at a time. Even in Kiev, offensive feints pinned the bulk of Ukrainian army remaining right there in Kiev. When the cauldron was ready in the South, the Russians moved the Kiev “offensive” units to the Donbass. The Ukie army in Kiev can’t even get on the road South to help at this point, they’re frozen. All is in readiness now, yet the U.S. MSM is oblivious, or more likely, forbidden. WashPost slowly is coming to the fore with some details on the fall of Mariupol, but with accompanying bullshit detailing Russian ‘atrocities’, all the while ignoring the Azov disaster and Ukie atrocities against citizens and their own troops. I see nothing in MSM about the encirclement of Ukies in the Donbass. But the broadcast media, they’re just useless. That’s why you get questions like these.

  45. Scott Ritter’s analysis makes sense. But I have to ask the question: Are we really sure there was any missile impact at all?

    I’ve seen photos of the area around the train station littered with debris, mangled vehicles and what appear to be casualties. But I’ve seen nothing that indicates any damage to the station itself or any sort of impact crater.

    If you look at the picture with supposedly wounded people and luggage strewn around, you see no actual damage to the trees or the pavement or the luggage. They are all intact and a woman sits rather nonchalantly in the background with the allegedly injured woman splayed out in the foreground with her head in a pool of what appears to be (or is supposed to appear to be) blood.

    Yes, there is something that appears to be a rocket motor lying on a swath of grass. But surely something like that can procured with relative ease.

    Does anyone know where precisely this missile was supposed to have impacted?

  46. Ace says:
    @Right_On

    The military utility of targeting a passenger train station seems low so your idea of malfunction or error in aiming is useful. If there is a more likely target the Ukrainians could have been aiming at that would buttress your idea, though it would have to be a target for which anti-personnel cluster munitions would be appropriate.

    Your idea that the inscription indicates a revenge motive makes the choice of a civilian target understandable, just as it establishes the criminal responsibility of the senior Ukrainian leadership.

    There are no doubt honorable Ukrainian military leaders but one of the odd features of Ukraine of recent times is the existence of the very hard core Azov types who expanded from a regiment to a brigade and also into the ranks of the government. Where they are I predict an extra element of bloody-mindedness, as has been seen in the – to me – pointless shelling and sniping into the Donbass with such great loss of life. If that was done by regular formations of the UAF that would be evidence of a more generalized bloody-mindedness.

    I also read an account of Zelinsky’s trying to live up to his campaign promise to seek peace but being threatened by the Azovians if he persisted.

    There is also the evidence if the strong anti-Russian speaker motivation of the government in the immediate aftermath of Maidan. Stories of UAF torture and execution of Russian POWs and other civilians testify that there is something rotten in Denmark that is consistent with a theory of deliberate attack on the civilian station.

    Ukraine is a swirl of hatreds and corruption. It behooves us to step back from the breathless, Hannitovian, Levinian, puppy dog adulation of the Ukrainian rebirth of “democracy” and Ukraine’s being the standard bearer of truth and decency in the battle against Putinian revanchism and neo-Stalinism.

  47. Anon[241] • Disclaimer says:

    Welcome Mr. Ritter !

  48. Rich says:
    @Levtraro

    I think it’s a foregone conclusion that Donbass is lost, but preserving his military to protect the rest of his country might be a smart thing to do. With the hindsight of 80 years, I’d have told the Fuhrer to avoid Stalingrad, or to at least pull out when his field officers advised him to. Saving his Sixth Army might have kept the Soviets at bay for long enough to prevent the horrible defeat his war ended in. Oh, and with the benefit of 160 years hindsight, I’d advise General Lee not to go to Gettysburg and instead to keep his military strong enough to repel Union advances and wait out the North until it tired of sending its sons South. I’d also have advised General Varus not to spread his legions too thin and not to enter the Teutoburg Forest.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  49. Levtraro says:
    @antitermite

    Since the steelworks is the size of a small suburb (counting 8 levels deep), designed to withstand nuclear attack, and potentially have months of supply (if it was a predetermined hill to die on), the Russian army is going to have to dig them out.

    Not necessarily. These fighters could just be sealed in their bunkers and then be left there to carry on for as long as they can (assuming ventilation shafts are not blocked entirely). Reconstruction works could start and progress on the surface while underground sealed fighters work out the best way to live and die. After a few months the seals could be broken to ID and remove the bodies, deliver them to their families.

    • Replies: @antitermite
    , @Decoy
  50. cohen says:
    @Rich

    Let us be fair. Zelensky remembers well what happened to Sadam and Qadafy to defy the orders of puppet master. He is looking after for himself. Media appearances, talking tours, book contracts and may be appearance on dancing with stars with BOJO.
    All that peace negotiations circus was to buy time and delay obvious Russian take over of Eastern Ukraine.

  51. Bro43rd says:
    @j2

    Using your analogy of the stone and pillow, the nosecone of munitions is the stone and the missle body is the pillow. Thus the body would fall to the ground somewhere between the launch site and the target area. This is opposite of what you go on to claim. The physics of it is more like the trajectory of a bullet with a booster shell casing. Once the bullet disengages with the booster then gravity will cause the heavier shell casing to fall to the ground faster than the lighter bullet thus it will be between the launch site and the target.

    • Replies: @Ace
  52. @j2

    I have problems
    making sense of this. Are you really quoting? If so what are you quoting?
    I ask because you use the word “vertically” twice where it should surely be “horizontally” which makes it appear that you don’t understand what is being said.

    So please revisit it all and revise and, in the case of the last paragraph rewrite it so it is clear what is being described and explained.

    • Replies: @j2
  53. @Oscar Peterson

    It impacts nothing. The missile runs out of fuel, heads up, drops the engine (the big green thing lying on the ground, the thing with all the serial numbers) and then releases the cluster-munitions wherever they land.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Badger Down
  54. @Mike-SMO

    Your comment is mostly nonsense but I will reply to the last bit of it. In what imaginary world are train stations equipped with CIWS 30 mm Gatling guns?

  55. “Zelensky might want to be careful about what he wishes for.”

    That’s exactly right! The nazi Jew needs be brought up on charges for provoking the bear to profit his tribesmen and further impovrishing the Ukrain. Hopefully, zany Putin is no fool and will see to the destruction of those destructive Zionists before he hangs up his hat.

  56. @Rich

    To a comment of mine on Ron’s retrospective article about lack of response to his theories you appended “Disagree “and I would like to find out why.

    Was it because you disagreed with the way I described juries reacting to lies? I don’t suppose so.

    Was it then because you didn’t think MSM had written him off as a crank because of his continued pushiing of a couple of particarly unconvincing narratives?

    Or did you just disagree with what I wrote about his Covid theory and/or 9/11? What’s your problem?

    • Disagree: Badger Down
  57. Agent76 says:

    Apr 14, 2022 Kremlin issues final warning to Kiev ‘decision-making centers’

    January 26, 2022 What is NATO? Military alliance in spotlight as Russia tries to forbid Ukraine membership

    NATO was established in 1949 as a defense against the Soviet Union. Its core principal is mutual defense, enshrined in Article 5 of its founding treaty. There are 30 NATO member. Russia is trying to keep Ukraine from joining them. The threat of a Russian invasion of Ukraine prompted NATO forces to mobilize across Europe, evoking for many the military alliance’s first reasons for being.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/01/26/nato-military-alliance-explained-russia-ukraine/9211025002/

    Nov 29, 2016 The Map That Shows Why Russia Fears War With US

    • Thanks: GMC
  58. Realist says:

    It is always wise to mistrust any position the U.S. government takes as their lies and treachery are many and manifest.

  59. @Ultrafart the Brave

    If this was a Ukrainian false flag to blame the Russians, then the spray painted slogan would have been something like “Die Ukie Scum” or “From Russia With Love”. The slogan on the booster stage implies the missile was intended for revenge against Russians killing Ukrainian children, which Russia has done. The orientation of the booster stage strongly suggests a launch from Ukrainian territory. These missiles are over 30 years old, component deterioration is inevitable. It was likely a missile malfunction, and the Ukrainian propaganda apparatus found it convenient to blame it on Russia as Russia has used Tochkas in attacks on Ukrainian civilian targets previous(not necessarily intentionally).

    • Agree: peterAUS
    • Troll: Ukraine Tiger
  60. @Levtraro

    Yes you are right.

    The only thing achieved in an assault is maybe a faster resolution, and a very slim chance of captives.

    But these potential prisoners of war from Mariupol pose a two-edged problem: anything less than the gallows will be seen as a failure of justice, and anything less than repatriation will be demonised by the west.

    Your solution is simpler, safer… and more poetic.

    “We will bury you”

    • Replies: @acementhead
  61. Decoy says:
    @Levtraro

    A bit harsh assessment of how to handle the steel works Azovians, but it may come to that. Hope for guidance from Zelinsky is gone. At this point his control of the Ukraine government and Ukraine military equals Joe Bidens control of our government and military. It doesn’t exist.

  62. dimples says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    As per comment above, if the Russians produced documentation about the missile’s provenance then it would automatically be regarded as fake by Western media, so producing it would be a pointless exercise. Russia provided documentation showing that the BUK missile in the MH-17 shootdown was Ukrainian, but this was ignored. I believe the MH-17 trial in the Netherlands completely rules out any evidence provided by Russia.

    Re pencilled documentation, the records shown were not field records but office records.

  63. @Right_On

    What is known about how many missiles were fired?

    It is certainly worth asking why the Russians would fire one missile calculated to kill civilians. But once one starts asking questions it would be good to know how many other missiles were fired, and, as one going astray might be the reason the station was hit, what the targets were for the others.

  64. ariadna says:

    Of course he is… but you are wasting precious time on this site while you could read the Guardian instead. I do. That’s how I found out that Julian Assange is a rapist, for instance. And the Skripals were poisoned with the deadly nerve agent Novichok, which was smeared on the handle of their door and poured into their beverage and in a bottle of cologne, and with Navalny the Russian agents got even bolder and smeared it on his underpants. Luckily Navalny survived. The Skripals did but then curiously became totally adverse to appearing in public. I heard that The Guardian is preparing a special investigating report proving that Putin, who is terminally ill, tried to survive by eating Ukrainian babies. Alive. And without salt!

    • LOL: Doug Hillman
  65. Jake Dee says:
    @Mike-SMO

    In the Ukraine, engines and nose cones of smaller cluster munition armed rockets land beyond the impact area. In photos of the missile attack on the Russian landing ships (Beldansk?) the missile body also falls beyond the cluster munition impact zone.

    Can you point me to some sources on this ? It’s a question I would really like some clarification on.
    We may have a 6.5mm carcano magic bullet, grass knoll, “back and to the right” moment going on here.
    It’s like a crime scene with shell casings, bullet fragments and a body with a gun shot wound. All interesting stuff that may or may not be useful evidence. The detective has to show it was those particular bullet fragments that caused that particular fatal wound and came from those particular shell casings. Then link it to a particular gun fired by a specific shooter.
    This is what makes the rocket booster such an interesting artifact. We have been told that it’s that specific booster with a specific message written on it that caused those fatalities. It’s an artifact that has a history that can be traced, regardless of how patchy the paperwork might be no organization has a ballistic missile without keeping some records on it

    • Replies: @Mike-SMO
  66. dimples says:
    @Wokechoke

    “2. Fir the children implies it’s designed to kill civilians and young obeys at that. ”

    There is no point overthinking anything coming from a dumb Ukrainian. The operator was probably ordered to write something on the missile that would help the Western media generate plenty of hysteria. Anything involving ‘children’ would do the job even if it didn’t actually make any sense.

  67. @j2

    The only way to resolve this is to analyze previous Tochka strikes, which Scott Ritter, or anybody else, have failed to do, so we don’t have any sound information on the behavior of the booster stage after separation from the warhead. I haven’t spent much time searching, but I quickly found a case of a Tochka strike on Donesk City which the Ukrainians blamed the Separatists/Russians based on the orientation of the “booster stage” with the rear of the crashed booster pointing at Separatist/Russian territory. Using that analysis in the present case would argue that the train station strike blamed on Russia in fact came from Ukrainian territory. With the front of the booster pointing at the train station and the rear at Ukrainian territory you’re gonna have a tough uphill battle arguing it was launched by the Russians. That said, the rush by the Rooski Fanboy Clown Car Parade to call this a purposeful false flag attack on Ukrainian civilians by the Ukrainian military is wholly without evidence, but absurdly predictable. Likely a malfunction, after all these Tochkas are not only Russian junk, but 30 year old Russian junk, plenty of time for component degradation.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @j2
  68. @Bombercommand

    It was likely a missile malfunction, and the Ukrainian propaganda apparatus found it convenient to blame it on Russia as Russia has used Tochkas in attacks on Ukrainian civilian targets previous (not necessarily intentionally).

    One must keep an open mind on these things, but the highlighted part of your statement above contradicts what has otherwise been asserted both here and in other mediums, that Russia claims to have phased out their Tochka inventory way back in 2019.

    The Belorussians still allegedly use them, as do the Ukrainians, but not the Russians.

    This would be a moot point if you meant to infer that Russia has been dropping missiles of any sort on Ukrainian civilians. In any case, we would still want to know about that.

    • Replies: @Bombercommand
  69. Ace says:
    @j2

    The engine has fins to the rear as well as some kind of steering plates below them. The engine might wobble some without an aerodynamically smooth warhead but I think it will not tumble.

    • Replies: @Doug Hillman
  70. @David Homer

    David Homer @56

    Your comment is mostly nonsense but I will reply to the last bit of it. In what imaginary world are train stations equipped with CIWS 30 mm Gatling guns?

    Well said, David Homer!

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  71. @Wokechoke

    Your comment seems sound and judicious. I have little to add to it, except an incidental tangent stirred by this sentence of yours:

    The war has a genocidal character.

    I am starting to believe that genocide is largely an anticoncept. That is, it is a category that serves to frustrate clear thinking rather than to enhance it.

    [MORE]

    It is unclear to me that to slaughter, say, 10,000 noncombatants without regard to their race or tribe is less awful than to slaughter 10,000 noncombatants specifically because of their race or tribe. I hasten to add that, having witnessed few shots fired in anger, I thankfully lack experience of the horror of a slaughter of 10,000! So maybe I just do not know what I am talking about.

    If the genocide targets my own race or tribe, that of course is another matter; but no one has explained to me why genocide, in the abstract, is worse than just killing.

    For all I know, maybe genocide is less bad, not more. Maybe, at least, genocide has a discernible goal that serves the plain, rational interests of the killer and his kin.

    Further musings by me on mass carnage would be unhelpful, so I’ll leave it there. My gruesome musings are not quite reaching the point I wish to reach, anyway. There is an obvious JQ angle to the question, and this being The Unz Review, I’ve little doubt that someone will explore that angle (for better or for worse); but whatever the angle, there seems to me to be something vaguely wrong with the moral use of genocide as a conceptual category.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  72. saggy says: • Website

    Because the missile burns to depletion, once the engine shuts down, the missile will cease its pure ballistic trajectory

    It’s surprising that Ritter would get the terminology wrong, but the missile begins its ballistic trajectory when the engine shuts down, ballistic missiles are called ballistic missiles because the great majority of their trajectories are ballistic, i.e. unpowered, like a thrown ball once it leaves the thrower’s hand.

    ballistic trajectory in American English
    noun. the path of an unpowered object, as a missile, moving only under the influence of gravity and possibly atmospheric friction and with its surface providing no significant lift to alter the course of flight.

    • Agree: niceland
  73. Iris says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    Does anyone know where precisely this missile was supposed to have impacted?

    There are over 100 photos of the aftermath of the Kramatorsk bombing on the Spanish Getty website. They don’t seem staged, unlike Bucha’s.

    https://www.gettyimages.es/fotos/kramatorsk-railway-station-attack?assettype=image&phrase=kramatorsk%20railway%20station%20attack&sort=mostpopular&license=rf%2Crm

  74. The zionists are the masters of false flags, they have done dozens including the attack on the WTC on 911, which was done by Israel and traitors at the highest level of the ZUS government and blamed on muslims to give the excuse to destroy the middle east for Israels greater Israel agenda.

    The Kamatorsk railway attack was but yet another zionist perpetrated false flag and in their desperation they forgot details that pointed to the zionist false flag like the serial number on the missile that proved it was a Ukrainian missile ie W91579, the zionists are getting sloppy.

    Where are the zionist created white helmets, they have produce dozens of false flags in Syria, it is time to roll out the white helmets.

    • Agree: GKWillie
    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
  75. @Jim Christian

    Show us you know what you are talking about despite your rather obvious error in suggesting that the missile depends on running out of fuel to determine where it releases its cluster bombs!

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  76. GMC says:

    A Warning to guys commenting from Ukraine or Near Russia – the Ukies/Nazis assassinated Valery Kuleskov in Kherson , at his apartment. Val was a super guy that was not afraid to tell the truth about the Ukie atrocities in Donbass – for many years. Ukrainian Intel, SBU, Nazis etc. looks like they were trained by the same { USA School of America’s} that terrorised Central America during those CIA years .

    You gotta be one brainwashed MFer to think Ukraine is a victim here and their Prez is a Hero. Hello America.
    I doubt if they will find Gonzalo’s body, if he didn’t have really really sharp street sense, and take on the lamb, as soon as he took a moment to think about his last statement.

    • Agree: RobinG, Robjil
    • Thanks: Ukraine Tiger
  77. Iris says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    So why don’t the Russians just do that? They seem not to be very media savvy.

    They did, but the Western MSM wall stops any real information from reaching us.

    I found these facts reported on a Russian news website. Incredible but true, the serial number of the missile that hit Kramatorsk, incriminating the Ukrainian side, was revealed on an EU/Italian TV channel. Yet, no journalist was interested in investigating.


    Western channel exposes the serial number of the Kramatorsk bombing rocket and unknowingly reveals the identity of the aggressor.

    A video report by Italy’s La7 channel from the train station in the eastern Ukrainian city of Kramatorsk revealed the serial number of the Toshka-U missile that hit the station, which Kiev claimed was Russian.

    In the news report, which was allowed to be filmed at the train station, the missile’s serial number appears ( Φ91579) , and a comparison made by Russian analysts show that this missile belongs to the same series of missiles that were fired against several independentist cities in the Donbass.
    Kiev has accused Russia, which has repeatedly stated that its army does use this type of missile.

    According to the “LostArmour” organisation, such missiles were fired at cities in Donbass such as Khartszsk on 04.09.2014 (rocket “number “Φ15622” ) and Tshevsky on 02.02.2 015 (Rocket No. “Φ91565”), Lugvinova on 13.02.2015 (Missiles No. “Φ91566, Φ915527, Φ915328” ), Perdiansk on 19.03.2022 (rocket no. “Φ915611”), and Militobol on 17.03.2022 (rocket no. “Φ915516”).

    https://t.me/ChDambiev/15134

    • Replies: @j2
  78. @Ultrafart the Brave

    During the present unlawful invasion of The Ukraine, a Russian Tochka hit a hospital in the Kyiv area, killing and wounding patients and medical personnel(again, I am not saying it to was intentional). Several Tochka launch units have been photographed in Ukrainian territory. Clearly, the Tochka is in service for the invasion. It makes sense to burn through your old inventory before using the new stuff, all nations do this.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
  79. j2 says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    You are correct, horizontally. The pieces between ” ” are cut and pasted from Scott Ritter’s article.
    Thus, it is so that when the external force stops working (the fuel of the missile burns out), everything
    in the missile moves along a ballistic orbit. Every piece has the same initial velocity and direction. Where each piece lands in the horizontal position is therefore determined by air resistance.
    Ritter says
    “Because the missile burns to depletion, once the engine shuts down, the missile will cease its pure ballistic trajectory, and instead assume a near-vertical posture as it heads toward its target. ”
    You can see that this defies all physics.

    Now there is a question which has smaller surface area to weight ratio, the engine part of the submunitions. Let us assume for simplicity that the engine part weights as much as the submunitions together. Should the submunitions stay together as a packet, we would conclude that both the engine and the submunition packet have about the same surface area to weight ratio and they will land to approximately the same place. Next consider the change when the subammunition are not in a packet but in dozens or even hundreds small pieces. You see that the surface area of the subammunition grows. Therefore they will not travel as far horizontally as the engine.

    One commenter incorrectly claimed that a subammunition is like a bullet and the engine is like a case. This is incorrect. The engine is like a case to dozens or hundreds of bullets and is therefore more compact than the dozens or hundreds of bullets taken as a totality. See, it is so that if you have a bigger stone and a smaller stone and you give both equal initial velocity, the smaller stone must have a larger surface area to weight ratio. This is because the weight is related to the radius to cubic and surface area to radius to square. If you make radius larger, the weight grows faster than the surface area and surface area to weight ratio decreases.

    As for this that after spreading the subammunitions at the altitude 2200 m, the missile becomes unstable and can easily turn, consider this: originally the missile has a heavier top than bottom and flies top in front, but assuming that it throws out some weight from the top, it may well have the bottom heavier and it flips so that the bottom is first. Try throwing a throwing knife and you see, it flips to move the heavier part first, but only if you know how to throw, else it moves in any position. Applying to Tochka-U, one should know the weight distribution and aerodynamics of the missile after it releases subammunition in order to say which way it moves. It is likely that it may end in whatsoever direction and nothing can be concluded.

  80. @V. K. Ovelund

    Setting aside whether “genocide” when extended to cultural genocide opens up otherwise under examined ideas I can see that you ask whether one motivation for killing a lot of people who don’t threaten your life or freedom can be morally better or worse than another. Let’s try.

    One hundred thousand farmers and their families need to be killed to allow your people to feed themselves without possibility of come back.

    One hundred thousand gypsies and blacks can’t be cleared out from the territory you are taking over, or from your own, but you are desperate to get rid of such a degrading lot of people with its high crime rate and lack of aspiration oe willingness to contribute materially or otherwise to the wider society so you kill them.

    I suppose you could say of the first case that you are accepting that it is Malthusian world and that increasing the reliable food supply is an imperative thrust upon you by nature. They would be proved wrong in modern times but it may be classed as different from killing people because you have developed categories of inferior and superior people AND can see no way to upgrade them by interbreeding OR to treat them as individuals as the Western Enlightenment, at least West of the Rhine, taught.

    • Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
  81. Jake Dee says:
    @Ian Smith

    That’s an interesting detail and I’m glad you mentioned it. But it doesn’t effect ballistic trajectories or wind resistance. Sex offenders can’t change the laws of physics

  82. j2 says:
    @Bombercommand

    “With the front of the booster pointing at the train station and the rear at Ukrainian territory you’re gonna have a tough uphill battle arguing it was launched by the Russians. ”

    Pentagon claims it was shot from the separatist area. They seem to base their information to either satellite pictures or spy plane images/radar tracks. I do not have this information. Ukraine claims that there were two missiles and they intercepted one. If so, they must have a very good idea where the missiles came from and possibly a radar track. I do not have this information. However, the incident is a claimed war crime and will be investigated, as the Bucha killings are investigated, by some third party. Whatever you think of the third parties, like France or Belgium, it is not so that they all are puppets of any ziocon, ukrinazi, globohomo conspiracy. The teams sent are police. They will investigate the issue and whatever conclusion they come to, it will be the accepted conclusion. You can continue with your opinion, but after the investigation it is only a layman opinion.

    As for this Kramatorsk event being a false flag by anybody, I very much doubt it. It is certain that Ukraine transports troops to Donbas by train and it makes lots of sense to shoot them with cluster munition. But in this case the troops seem to have left the train before it came to the station and in the train station there were only civilians. Shit happens, so the missile killed civilians. Then there was an effort to claim it was an Ukraine false flag. But this one incident has no bigger relevance. You can see that Russians have been shooting missiles and shelling ordinary blocks of flat, thus killing civilians. There are some thousand killed civilians already. Some more in Kramatorsk does not change anything. Russia has this way of making war, it did so already in Chechenia and Syria.
    The fact that shooting missiles to somebody’s home and killing his family does not really win hearts and souls gives a simple reason why the large majority of Russian speaking Ukrainians escape to the West, not to Russia. This means that they see Russia as an enemy, not a liberator. The Kramatorsk event is a single and not very important example of a general pattern. Trying to deny the Russian role in it cannot change the general pattern: there are simply too many destroyed houses and they were destroyed by Russians.

    • Replies: @Badger Down
  83. j2 says:
    @Iris

    “this missile belongs to the same series of missiles that were fired against several independentist cities in the Donbass.”

    Yes, and this points to Ukrainian separatists. The Ukraine army has 90 to 500 Tochka-U missiles. It would be unlikely that they would have happened to select a missile from the same small set of tochkas that belonged to the ammunition of one Tochka launcher that was used in Donbas in 2014.

    However, it is very likely that Ukraine separatists managed to capture only one or very few tochka launchers in 2014. A launcher they captured was used in Donbas in 2014. Lots of Ukraine soldiers changed side in 2014, several units switched to the side of the separatists. Let us assume the unit that earlier had shot those two tochkas in Donbas in 2014 switched the side. If so, then Donbas separatists had this launcher and the ammunition for it. Thus, if they shot the missile to Kramatorsk, they could only use the one launcher they had and naturally the serial number was close to the ones this same launcher had shot in 2014.

    But I do not think this was any false flag. This was a simple mistake. Separatists were trying to shoot down Ukraine reinforcements that were coming by train to strengthen JFO forces.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @Badger Down
  84. @Desert Fox

    Yup, the words “for the children” written on the missile betray a Zionist inspiration.

    Remember this scene from Israel?

    • Agree: GKWillie
    • Thanks: Doug Hillman
  85. @dimples

    MH17 was not taken out by a BUK missile, I know, I witnessed the culprits. One day people will come to understand the truth.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  86. @repugnant

    Ah! But a serious investigation by the victors of a serious war will not be propaganda because it will not be by the west.

    • LOL: nokangaroos
  87. @antitermite

    Don’t have to dig anybody out. Just surround, sit and wait. They can’t stay there for ever and they can’t get supplies. Medina come to mind. Meanwhile, the battle goes on earnestly eslewhere.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  88. ebear says:

    I reached the same conclusion about the missile’s point of origin by simply comparing published photos of the booster and adjacent landmarks, with those same landmarks using google maps. That gave me an estimate of the direction of flight, and the maximum range, which I acquired from publicly available sources, gave me an estimate of the missile’s launch point, which was clearly inside Ukrainian held territory.

    One thing I would point out. This is probably the most recorded war in history. I’ve seen live footage from actual combat, as well as the immediate results of missile and artillery strikes, much of it unwittingly provided by Ukrainian civilians, as I assume was the case here. Someone took photos and posted them online before a cover up could commence, thus providing the evidence needed to identify the perpetrators.

    Speaking of photographic evidence, we are going to see an overwhelming amount of it covering the atrocities committed by the Ukrainian side in just a few months if not sooner. Independent analysts from around the world will be studying that evidence and no amount of media control inside or outside the NATO alliance will be able to conceal the truth. I see a major shift in world opinion directly ahead, once the true extent of what’s been done is revealed.

  89. Why would anyone poke the greatest nuclear power on the planet? Russia missile, nicknamed Satan 2, can fly 6,000 miles, carry 15 warheads and has the potential to destroy an area the size of France or Texas.
    Zelenzsky is your typical Chosenite, flaming fires for others to put out.

  90. @David Homer

    Can’ t you be bothered to read what you reply to? He said the Gatling guns were on the Moskva.

  91. @Lawrence Miller

    Not well said by either of you. He didn’t say the Gatling guns were at the train stations but on the Moskva.

  92. @Ukraine Tiger

    “Witnessed the culprits”? What does that mean?
    Did you see with your own eyes what those responsible for downing MH317 did to bring it down? If so, what was that, and where is what you witnessed recorded?

  93. Josepa says:

    Scott Ritter omitted one important question:
    could the perpetrator forge the serial number of the missile ?

  94. Anon[159] • Disclaimer says:
    @j2

    Wrong again, Jew_2.

    Tochka_U is strictly a Ukraine munition. Dozens have hit Donetsk.

    • Replies: @j2
  95. @repugnant

    Between Obama’s eight years as a Magik Negro slave and shellacking he gave to white America, and four years of Trump exposing the toxic swamp destruction of humanity, we were gifted with the senile head of a political crime family who not only schitts his pants, but schitts on everything good about America and the west.
    Joe CornPop is the perfect fool to blame for incompetent PIGs (people in government) playing slave masters to all government plantations serfs in America while giving perks and protection to GlobalHomoZioBIGsRxMIC3BLM.

    Nothing will change until PIGs (people in government) and GlobalHomoZioBIGsRxMIC3 are removed.

  96. @Wizard of Oz

    Show us you know what you are talking about despite your rather obvious error in suggesting that the missile depends on running out of fuel to determine where it releases its cluster bombs!

    Ya gotta love a dolt. The goddamned thing is totally unguided, release of cluster munitions depends on the angle from which it’s launched assuming warhead/motor detachment. You could have found that on WIKI. What the fuck is your problem that you’re sitting here attempting to split non-existent hairs? The launch of these abominations isn’t enough? Or do you cover for the monsters in the Ukie army that launch them? So, you love the human destruction?

    • Thanks: Dnought
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  97. Ace says:
    @Bro43rd

    ** gravity will cause the heavier shell casing to fall to the ground faster than the lighter bullet **

    LOL. I’d check the math on that one.

    • Thanks: JackOH
    • Replies: @Doug Hillman
  98. j2 says:
    @Anon

    “Wrong again, Jew_2.”

    Seems to be that annamaria is not the only Me Too. Apparently Anon is another. Try to get
    over your trauma.

    “Tochka_U is strictly a Ukraine munition. ”

    Tochka-U is a Soviet missile and Russia has used this missile e.g. in Syria, but even if we would assume that only Ukraine used Tochkas in 2014, it is perfectly possible and even likely that
    Ukraine separatists got one Tochka-U launcher in 2014 when several Ukraine units shifted side
    to separatists.

  99. Ace says:
    @Ian Smith

    It is good to have saintly people to police The Unz Review.

    • Agree: Ian Smith
  100. If you are right I apologise. It does/would indeed justify your description of them as abominations. It also means that the intended target can only be specified loosely. Whether that is sufficient to exculpate the Ukrainians I don’ t know but would like to know.

    PS Whatis the full tank range of the weapon,?

  101. j2 says:
    @peterAUS

    The USA has decided that Russia will lose this war. The West will give the weapons needed.
    At the moment Ukraine has overpower in number of men, morale, number of tanks,
    antitank weapons, short range anti-aircraft weapons, soon they have enough artillery,
    and they may soon get Romanian Mig-21s, which may not be 20 in operational condition
    and modernized but 110, and one may at least ask if there will appear some fully
    operational 30+12+20=62 Mig-29s, put together from from spare parts, of course.
    I still expect that Ukraine will attack at some point, even though you did
    assure that they do not have the skills (but good morale and weapons make it up,
    conscript armies do not need that much training, they need officers to tell what to do).

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  102. @Notsofast

    Exactly.

    First this civil white/blue truck and red deeploader, carrying the imported BUK-carrier. Aside from the subliminal coincidence of having Russian flag colors, this combination begged to be noticed and photographed, coming with a set of 4
    missiles and leaving one day later with one missile conspicuously missing.

    The carrier was unloaded close to a field near Pervomaiskiy, where it was claimed to have fired the missile from. Solid rocket fuel scorches the soil and leaves unique chemical residues, but the field was allowed to be ploughed soon after, and no soil samples were taken.

    Furthermore, these carriers operate in groups of three and receive firing data from a control vehicle with a powerful long distance radar. Yet a single carrier with a much smaller and weaker radar of its own, was supposed to have wagered a shot on an unknown plane that was more than 10 minutes of flight away at the moment of firing.

    The manufacturer of the missiles, Almaz Antey, saw a big boycot of its products in the making, was determined to not take that fate lying down, and did their own research. A BUK missile has its flight control electronics in the nose cone, the rocket engine and solid fuel in a finned tube further back, and the explosive charge with shrapnel mantle sandwiched in between. Upon explosion of the charge, the shrapnel flies outward in radial fashion, in an enlarging donut shape. In other words: radially sideways in relation to the missile’s flying direction. The missile was claimed to come from the east, from a rebel dominated area, was claimed to have met the plane nearly head-on and exploded its charge when it was somewhat alongside the plane’s cockpit.

    But Almaz engineers also found shrapnel impact in parts of the plane’s left wing and tail, meaning that the missile had met the plane more from the side and from underneath, at an angle closer to 90 degrees than head-on. This would imply that the missile was fired from a much more westerly area, which was at the time firmly under control of the Kiev led Ukranian army.

    And then there was the generation dispute about the missile. The shapes of the shrapnel impact holes did indicate a missile generation that was no longer stocked and used by the Russian army, but Almaz stated that the Ukranian army had opted for one last factory executed refurbishment not long ago, and still used the older generation in question.

    When being asked, Almaz could not guarantee that the shrapnel impact caused by the missile could have been the one and only reason for the downing of the plane. Interviewed citizens in the Pervomaiskiy area had heard no missile launch at the claimed moment of launch, but they had seen fighter jets in the air and had heard plane cannon shots. Reports of round impact holes in the MH17 plane’s skin fragments were dismissed and ridiculed by the JIT investigators.

    The questionable Bellingcat investigators conjured up questionable smartphone video footage of a Russian army convoi en route from its base to a large exercise. The single BUK carrier was claimed to have been picked from that convoi, to be transfered onto the civil truck and deeploader trailer, but no one bothered to verify and register if an empty army trailer had left the convoi to return to the base after the claimed transfer, or had stayed and moved on in the convoi empty, to get assigned other tasks during the exercise. In other words; no-one could prove if the convoi had left the base with (say) 9 BUK carriers, and reached the exercise aera with 8.

    The organisation of the investigation was a shambles. Wreckage is still strewn around and there seems to have been little interest to collect everything, for a real thorough study. It took years before the decision was made to interview people in the area in a more serious way, as is normally (and immediately) done after such a horrible event, with so many casualties and damage.

    The whole investigation and “evidence gathering” approach stunk to high heaven from start to finish, and has never stopped doing so to this day.

    • Agree: Badger Down
  103. @Horus

    It is some years ago now, but I remember seeing a display in London that included a blunderbuss.

  104. Between a gross ignorance of how the Neo-Soviets operate with military equipment, to the bad Physics of his explanation of how the missile itself operates, Ritter continues his unbroken record of idiocy.

    • Troll: GKWillie
    • Replies: @Doug Hillman
  105. @Jim Christian

    Just to see if I understand you, the missile drops the engine, releases the bomblets, and continues flying forever: it impacts nothing?

  106. lysias says:
    @Bombercommand

    For what it’s worth, I believe the inscription “For the children”, “Za detei” is in Russian, not Ukrainian.

    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
  107. @antitermite

    The Ukronazis have hundreds of captive civilians hostage in Azofstal. Russia, unlike the US, right from the start has been trying to minimise casualties. Russia has taken a few thousand casualties which it could have reduced a lot had it used the US system of reducing the attackee’s cities to rubble before ground invasion.

  108. peterAUS says:
    @j2

    …I still expect that Ukraine will attack at some point, even though you did
    assure that they do not have the skills …….

    You REALLY are into this topic, so I’ll try to, AGAIN, clarify a thing or two.

    Keyword: TIMING. T…I….M….I…N…G.

    I also expect that Ukraine will attack, at some point, in future. In TIME. T…I….M….E.

    They, AT THE MOMENT, do not have either expertise or hardware to mount such an operation. The enemy is STILL too strong for that. It will be a suicide to try such an operation at the moment. Having said that, due to (geo)strategic reasons/politics they could try. “War is extension…”.
    If they try the attack operation will fail as such, with heavy loses. Will it produce other benefits in (geo)strategic/political/sociological/psychological areas is open to (another) discussion.
    For example, if JFO get into bad spot a LOCAL counterattack, say, from Kharkov, could relieve the pressure/buy time/whatever. They’d get repelled, having lost men and material, but, if that benefits JFO forces, why not?

    As for this:

    ….good morale and weapons make it up, conscript armies do not need that much training, they need officers to tell what to do….

    I believe we have FUNDAMENTAL disagreement about the things military. Make of that what you will. I’ll do the same.

    • Troll: GKWillie
  109. @Notsofast

    “There are only two things I can’t stand in this world: People who are intolerant of other people’s cultures, and the Dutch.” — Nigel Powers (Michael Caine), Goldmember (Emphasis added)

    True, the Netherlands utterly destroyed its credibility in the MH-17 “investigation”. Shameful, criminal.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  110. @j2

    There are simply too many destroyed houses and they were destroyed by Ukrainians.

    Before Russia entered the US war in Ukraine:
    “In December-January 2022, the impact of hostilities on civilian
    infrastructure included damages to the power supply unit in Olenivka
    (Donetsk NGCA) and a power line in Travneve (Donetsk GCA). At least 11
    houses were damaged or destroyed, including multi-story buildings in
    NGCA, and a house destroyed in Donetsk GCA.
    Since December, OHCHR recorded 10 civilian casualties, including 6 due to
    mines/ERW. Overall, in 2021 a total of 110 casualties were recorded by
    OHCHR – a 26% decrease compared to 2020. Of them 53% were related to
    landmines and ERW, 40% to active hostilities and 7% to other causes.”

    https://www.humanitarianresponse.info/sites/www.humanitarianresponse.info/files/documents/files/01_2022_protection_cluster_factsheet_eng.pdf

    Back in 2015, Ukraine vs Ukraine:
    https://www.theepochtimes.com/report-details-widespread-prisoner-abuse-torture-in-ukraine-conflict_1997904.html

    • Replies: @j2
  111. Look at the face on the flag. LOL.



    Video Link

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @Levtraro
  112. GKWillie says:

    Thank you Mr Ritter for having the courage to tell the truth, along with Col. Macgregor.

    And thanks to Mr Unz for giving you a voice, even as the Globalist Deep State and their Ministry of Propaganda attempt to censor and silence all dissent.

  113. peterAUS says:

    https://www.rt.com/russia/554261-fire-research-facility-tver/

    The fire had started in one of the rooms on the second floor of the administrative building.

    Administrative, a?
    Hard to investigate any corruption/misuse of funds now.
    All good.

  114. @j2

    Separatists were trying to shoot down Ukraine reinforcements that were coming by train to strengthen JFO forces.

    “Separatists” is a funny word to use. You mean Ukrainians did this?

    To attack the reinforcements, it would have been better to shoot the train. Shooting the station is pointless, unless the train had arrived, which it hadn’t.
    On the other hand, Ukrainians have been shooting Ukrainian civilians trying to flee the fighting. It would make sense for them to shoot the crowded station before the train arrived.

    • Replies: @j2
  115. as ever I appreciate the inspector Ritter’s expertise in every article his indeopth knowledge has been useful.

    However, while tbne trees are certainly important, I am more concerned wyth the forest. And on hs isue that forest has one run amok actor in my view and that is Russia. Her actions remain unwarranted and a threat to international order. The defense of Russia is of course reasonable. However, she cannot demand that ther nations be unwillingly listed in that endeavour – period. And her demand that others obey her demands l’est there be a nuclear exchange is beyond the pail and unacceptable.

    She simply has no standing to determine who the dance partners on the floor are. Those are the issues, who fired what and when against who for accountability for potential war crimes. But it is a safe bet that there won’t be any trials as the conflict continues and the party responsible for that conflicty is Russia.

    Russia who even according to the OSCE protocols is in violation in more than one area.

    • Troll: GKWillie
  116. @Ace

    Yup, Galileo proved that acceleration caused by gravity is independent of mass in his demonstration at the leaning Tower of Pisa. The rocket booster falls behind due to increased wind resistance after releasing its aerodynamic warhead cone. It tumbles after separation.

    • Thanks: JackOH
  117. @Quartermaster

    Please elaborate on the bad physics and the idiocy, otherwise STFU.

    • Agree: Dnought
  118. @Ace

    As I understand it the engine will indeed tumble. The fins are part/parcel of an aerodynamic whole; at separation they provide little stability due to weight imbalance and loss of overall aerodynamic form. The engine thus always falls short of the warhead, which in this case indicates a point of origin in AFU (Ukraine) territory.

    Please see a detailed analysis at Moon of Alabama with pics showing relative positions of parts.

    https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/04/more-evidence-that-ukraine-fired-the-missile-which-killed-dozens-in-kramatorsk.html

    After being fired the rocket engine propels the warhead towards is destination. Shortly before the impact the warhead separates from the booster section and continues its path while the rocket engine shuts down. Having lost its thrust and aerodynamic tip the relative heavy booster section will then tumble to the ground. If everything works as designed the booster section always falls short of the warhead section.

    • Replies: @Ace
  119. This was a good article, factual and informative.

    Mr. Ritter’s opinions are in demand now and it seems to be forcing some in the media to come back to objective reality.

    I still haven’t heard much about the role of air-strikes in the coming Donbass battle. People seem to have forgotten how powerful they can be on massed formations.

    I also haven’t heard much about bulldozer blades for tanks being used to fill in trenches. I hear they were effectively used in the Iraq war.

    Also missing are Gatling cannon fired from 747s or their equivalent.

    https://greatamericanoutdoors.com/2021/09/holy-cow-the-m61-vulcan-is-a-gatling-gun-on-steroids/

  120. Ya says:

    They are all vying for the NWO, the king among kings with Israel being the culprit. Notice Amerikas greatest ally Israel is silent whilst they’re demociding innocent Palestinians? Why should they take a side? It’s a win win for god’s chosen lunatics.

    Why doesn’t anyone notice this? Maybe because you are too f’kn stupid?

  121. Ya says:

    If Putin wanted to make things right in this world, he’d drop his beautiful bomb on Israel.

    Israel with god’s chosen lunatics will be gone and only then will be peace on our earth for 2’000 years without satan’s children.

    Think about it, it makes sense.

  122. I guess Russia may not have an AC-130 equivalent.

    Russia Reportedly Developing Its Own AC-130-Like Gunship From Converted An-12 Cargo Planes
    The project will start with converting a single Antonov An-12 to carry a pair of 57mm cannons to help with further development of the final design.

    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/28717/russia-reportedly-developing-its-own-ac-130-like-gunship-from-converted-an-12-cargo-planes

    Vietnam: From the “Puff the Magic Dragon” Plane to the Lockheed AC-130

    https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/2015/08/06/vietnam-from-puff-the-magic-dragon-plane-to-lockheed-ac-130/

  123. Wokechoke says:
    @Ukraine Tiger

    Masada. It’s Masada. These dipshits ought to let their kids leave.

  124. @Bombercommand

    During the present unlawful invasion of The Ukraine, a Russian Tochka hit a hospital in the Kyiv area, killing and wounding patients and medical personnel(again, I am not saying it to was intentional).

    I’ve tried to get clarity on those reports, but so far as I can see, only Ukrainian authorities and Western media outlets such as CNN have asserted these things to be so. One-sided accusations of war crimes or similar allegations – and with Tochkas, no less (notwithstanding your inference that the Russians are still using these weapons, even though they say they stopped using them years ago).

    That gives me pause – the confirmed false flag at the Mariuopol maternity hospital remains plainly visible through the fog of war (see for example http://thesaker.is/sitrep-operation-z-4/ ).

    Ditto the alleged massacre by Russian soldiers in Bucha, and now the Kramatorsk train station atrocity – which, irrespective of intent, was inflicted by a Ukrainian asset.

    So, as suggested, one should keep an open mind, but as they say – “fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice…”. IMO it’s getting harder and harder to give any credence to the Ukrainian side of the equation.

  125. RestiveUs says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    I see your point. If these were cluster munitions, I would expect to see more obvious pock mark damage to surrounding fixtures and surfaces.

  126. @Mike-SMO

    ‘…Russia, as Soviets or Bolsheviks, starved 6-12 million Ukrainians to death (Holodomor) in the 30s. …’

    If you must over-simplify, it would be more accurate to say that Jews starved gentiles to death. After all, the famine extended well beyond the Ukraine.

    Now ask who runs the Ukraine and look at who is promoting the war.

    If we must turn it all into a moral tale.

    • Replies: @Mike-SMO
  127. @Ultrafart the Brave

    ‘…IMO it’s getting harder and harder to give any credence to the Ukrainian side of the equation…’

    That all depends on who you prefer to believe. A lot of people have got a nice, clear, simple moral fable going here, and you’re not going to muddy the picture.

  128. Ace says:
    @Doug Hillman

    Thank you. I stand corrected. I’ve looked at the small fins attached to the chlorine tanks allegedly dropped from a helicopter in Douma, Syria and assumed it didn’t take much to keep a cylinder pointed head down. Even if Douma was faked, cylinders with such fins were in fact used elsewhere.

    Whether falling bodies tumble or not I would expect the body with the larger surface area, and hence with the larger wind resistance, to slow its forward motion more rapidly. Hence it would fall short of the impact point of the other body.

    The relative weights of falling objects are not a factor in determining how fast they fall, of course. As you point out below. ☺️

    • Replies: @j2
  129. Mike-SMO says:
    @Jake Dee

    The missile fall in Beldansk was, as I recall, posted in a video in the comments at “Moon of Alabama”. I think that the original ownership of the missile is pretty much useless since various Ukrainian units have “switched sides” or been over-run, so ownership will be lost in the fog of war. Similarly, the Moskva. The Russians don’t acknowledge a missile hit, but the Ukrainians claim firing two. There is no independent verification of missile hits. We will possibly learn the truth in the future. I am going with the assumption that any public release of information is propaganda.

    I mentioned the Moskva since the missile should not have gotten past the guns and decoys. The Ukrainians are celebrating and the Russians are quiet. Who knows.

    The train station attack has to be a terror hit. Track and yard hits disrupt rail traffic. The cluster munitions broke some station windows and did minor damage to passenger coaches. The crowd was the obvious target. Who dun it is still the question. This is also a civil war so there is a surplus of hate.

  130. Mike-SMO says:
    @Colin Wright

    The Jews got lots of undeserved “credit”. Both the NSDAP and the Bolsheviks were frustrated by the “stand offish” Jews. Yet The early Bolsheviks were about 85% Jews and the Bolshevik Revolution was often called the “Jewish Revolution”. Quite a few Jews served in the German military. The German Communist party in the 30s was loaded with Jews.

    Thus the Jews were either the focus of evil or were targeted as outsiders. It isn’t an easy topic. I have no easy
    answer.

  131. @Notsofast

    … oh, and i forgot about the missile remnants, which were presented by the JIT investigators, years after the event. When the relatives of the victims had become impatient with the lack of investigation results and the failing of apprehending culprits, some Russian military personnel, claimed to have operated the carrier and fired the missile, was captured and interrogated. And all of a sudden, just in time to give the gathered evidence against the suspects more weight, in preparation of an impending trial, there were these missile parts, like the cylindrical rear part that had housed the engine and fuel. It was said that flight MH17 flew at a height of several miles when it was hit by tbe shrapnel, yet the “found” missile parts had survived the impact after a free fall from such height remarkably intact, with the serial number and other product markings (naturally traceable to a Russian army unit) conveniently legible for all the world’s news cameras to record and publish.

    And, to conclude, there is the issue of the Ukrainian air traffic radar stations, for unknown reasons having been”out of order” or “shutdown for maintenance” at the time. The Russians were able to provide radar images, but the JIT found these either not good enough or doctored. Which brings the questions why the Russians, up to this day, have not produced radar images or other proof that would free them from suspicions and accusations.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  132. j2 says:
    @Badger Down

    “There are simply too many destroyed houses and they were destroyed by Ukrainians.”

    There was a civil war starting in 2014. As always, both sides had good reasons and were correct in a sense. In a civil war there are atrocities. No doubt Russian speaking Ukrainians at that time had many reasons to hate Ukrainian speaking Ukrainians and Russian speaking Ukrainians were pro-Russia, being largely of Russian origins. Besides, the Eastern parts of Ukraine have never been in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and have felt like a part of Russia.

    But this was before the Russian attack. Had the attack succeeded as intended: with a rather bloodless coup as a result of the strategic strike, then this pro-Russia feeling would have lasted. But when the strategic strike failed and Putin decided to use missiles and artillery, especially when he decided to turn Mariupol into rubble, this pro-Russian feeling among Russian speaking Ukrainians has decreased to a small fraction of what it was. Because the number of houses Ukrainians destroyed before this war is an event in the past and Russians have now destroyed a far greater number of houses and killed more civilians. There still are some pro-Russia people, like the Mayer of Kreminna (shot recently), but much less than before the war. Putin made a very poor choice by bombing Russian speaking areas. That is not what is called liberation.

  133. j2 says:
    @Badger Down

    “To attack the reinforcements, it would have been better to shoot the train.”

    It is very difficult to shoot a fast moving object with a missile like Tochka-U. It has inertia navigation, no base station control and no sensors. It can only be directed to hit some coordinate place. It will hit it with the expected precision of 150 m. Using two Tochkas, you get the precision to something like 50 m. It is enough for a fixed place, but the chances of hitting a moving train are meager. All the train needs to do is to get an alert and to slow down or speed up and your estimated place where the train should be when the missile hits will be wrong.

  134. j2 says:
    @Ace

    “I would expect the body with the larger surface area, and hence with the larger wind resistance, to slow its forward motion more rapidly. Hence it would fall short of the impact point of the other body.”

    I will explain this to you. Air resistance is a friction force and a friction force is proportional to area A. Additionally air resistance is proportional to a power of velocity, often we can approximate this dependency as v^4, but let it be more generally a function f(v). When a friction force affects for some time dt the body moves some distance ds and makes work. Thus, we can write the amount of work done by the friction force in the time dt as
    dW=CAf(t)dt
    where A is the surface area, C is a constant, f(v)=v^4 or a better approximaiton, and dt is the time differential.

    This work done comes from the kinetic energy of the moving body. The moving body loses some velocity, it loses -dv of velocity (the sign chosen so that -dv is positive)
    dE=(1/2)mv^2-(1/2)m(v+dv)^2=-mvdv

    You set the lost energy equal to the made work:
    CAf(v)dt=-mvdy
    and you get dv/dt= =( Cf(v)/v ) (A/m)

    Here you see the proportion of the surface area A to the mass m (or weight gm, if you prefer).
    Let us use a ball of radius r, so A=4 pi r^2 and m= rho (4/3) pi r^3.
    Thus, (A/m)= C1 (1/r)
    where C1 is a constant. This means that the horizontal velocity component w of the body has the
    time derivative dw/dt which is proportional to 1/r. A larger ball loses less of its energy due to
    air friction and therefore it goes further.

    Is this clear to you now? This is basic physics.

  135. @lysias

    Yep, in Russian it is для детей, but in Ukrainian it is для дітей, a slight but crucial difference.

    • Replies: @Begemot
  136. Anon[667] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rich

    Firstly, a complaint.
    If I am not allowed to use my own name which does not correspond with “my usual handle” and I am asked to modify it to “Anon”, why is my comment then deleted so I have to re write it all over again?
    THIS IS FING ANNOYING.

    Now, my comment.
    Z is not interested in how many UA die in Azovstal etc as he has strategic, not tactical, goals. He understands that the more UA that die, the more likely it is that the EU / NATO will get involved, which is his goal. I say “his goal”, but clearly, all Ukrainian affairs have been in Nuland’s tender care ever since she decided alongside Pyke, that “Yats was our man” when Maidan fist kicked off this generational war against Russia.
    As to why the UA were not withdrawn westwards, so as to avoid the inevitable massacre, hopefully with thermobaric hardware, it is because Z knows from Russia’s endlessly-repeated statements that they are not interested in subjugating or colonizing Ukraine; rather, with simply liberating Donbass, and securing its independence alongside that of Crimea. And so any westwards-withdrawn UA would be left alone in their trenches for as long as they wished to live in them.

  137. @Ultrafart the Brave

    I don’t “believe” either the Ukrainian or the Russian side. If you read my comments, you will see my extreme skepticism that the Kramatorsk train station attack was perpetrated by Russia. I am also skeptical of the Rooski Fanboyz insistance it was a Ukrainian false flag attack. Regarding Bucha(and elsewhere), too much evidence of Russian Army atrocities against Ukrainian civilians, but I have no doubt that the Ukrainian Army executed Ukrainians they believe collaborated with the Russian invader. If you are a student of the history of war you understand it has always been this way, and that the tiresome reality is that one side claims their guys are Christlike innocents while the other side are satanic demons.

  138. Begemot says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    And most Ukrainians are fluent in Russian.

  139. RobinG says:
    @Priss Factor

    Looks like you’re clueless about Chechnya.

  140. Levtraro says:
    @Priss Factor

    Who do you think it is represented by the face in the flag? My guess is you’re so wrong.

  141. @Gerhard57NL

    The Russian could produce affidavits signed by God Himself, and the Western MSM vermin would declare God a ‘Putin groupy’.

  142. @Doug Hillman

    They had NO credibility, ever. They are only now owning up, grudgingly, to the massive atrocities they committed in Indonesia after WW2. And there was the Lockerbie farce, too.

  143. @Wizard of Oz

    Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, and a few others. You’re a bell-wether, too, Wizz, in the negative direction. In fact that is the essence of my worldview, not those to whom I give credence, but the armies of liars and hypocrites who illuminate the truth, incidentally, as that which falls outside the pitch darkness of their lies.

    • Replies: @WIzard of Oz
  144. @mulga mumblebrain

    Fair enough, I could just about understand you to be a perverted ballsedup reincarnation of Karl Popper.

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments on articles more than two weeks old will be judged much more strictly on quality and tone


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
$
Submitted comments have been licensed to The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Commenting Disabled While in Translation Mode
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Scott Ritter Comments via RSS
PastClassics
Analyzing the History of a Controversial Movement
The Shaping Event of Our Modern World
The Surprising Elements of Talmudic Judaism