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Iran Delenda Est
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After Carthage had been significantly weakened by Rome in the Second Punic War (218 to 201 BC), Cato the Elder, a leading Roman senator, is said to have ended all his speeches with the words: “Carthago delenda est!” (“Carthage must be destroyed!”). This destruction ultimately took place in the Third Punic War (149–146 BC). A somewhat similar situation exists today in the United States, where war hawks demand that Iran–which in no way could effectively attack the United States, or even conquer America’s Middle East so-called allies—be stripped of its ability to protect itself.

Of course, what makes the American situation different from ancient Rome’s is that Rome sought to eliminate Carthage for its own interests whereas the United States is largely acting to advance the military interests of Israel (and to a lesser extent Saudi Arabia) because of the immense power of the Israel lobby in the United States. In short, the destruction of Iranian power would enable Israel to solidify its dominance of the Middle East.

An insightful article by James North notes: “Iran in 2019 is no danger to U.S. interests anywhere. . . . The U.S. is squeezing Iran mainly because Israel wants it to. . . . Iran is the only regional power that is deterring him [Netanyahu] from completely annexing the West Bank. Iran is also a major supporter of Hamas, the resistance movement in Gaza.”

As North points out: “Israel wants the Iranian government destroyed, and Netanyahu has been instigating the United States for years to attack Teheran.” Obviously, Israel does not want any country in the Middle East to be able to contest its hegemonic power, which it maintains by virtue of its influence on the U.S. government and through its possession of top- level military weapons—especially its nuclear arsenal—the threatened use of which would likely cause the United States to intercede on Israel’s behalf to prevent a nuclear holocaust.

Support for Israel does not mean that American presidents have done everything sought by the Israel lobby, especially when it required outright war. Bush the Younger, for example, did not make war on Iran after defeating Saddam’s Iraq in 2003, although that was what Israel and its American supporters sought. And President Obama’s nuclear deal with Iran [Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA)] in 2015 to prevent its development of nuclear weapons was vehemently opposed by Israel and its American myrmidons because they regarded it as far too favorable toward Iran, especially since it would terminate sanctions that had been placed upon it.

While Iran is not allowed to develop nuclear weapons, a 2019 report by Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) described Israel’s nuclear arsenal as consisting of: “30 gravity bombs capable of delivering nuclear weapons by fighter jets; an additional 50 warheads that can be delivered by land-based ballistic missiles; and an unknown number of nuclear-armed, sea-launched cruise missiles that would grant Israel a sea-based second-strike capability.” Considering this completely unbalanced nuclear-arms situation, it would be reasonable to assume that Iran is threatened far more by Israel than Israel is by Iran. But that is not how the Alice-in-Wonderland U.S. media and politicians present the situation.

Israel and its American supporters wanted an overall diminution of Iranian military power—not just a restraint on nuclear power—which they contended would be enhanced by the increased wealth accruing to Iran due to the nuclear deal’s elimination of existing sanctions. Obama, however, held that he had maintained Israel’s military superiority over Iran. As Avi Schlaim, an Israeli historian, wrote: “Obama has given Israel considerably more money and arms than any of his predecessors. He has fully lived up to America’s formal commitment to preserve Israel’s ‘qualitative military edge’ by supplying his ally with ever more sophisticated weapons systems. His parting gift to Israel was a staggering military aid package of \$38bn for the next 10 years. This represents an increase from the current \$3.1 to \$3.8bn per annum. It is also the largest military aid package from one country to another in the annals of human history.”

Donald Trump ran in the 2016 U.S. presidential election as something of a non-interventionist, especially promising to stay out of conflicts in the Middle East. Trump stated that “[w]e will stop racing to topple foreign regimes that we know nothing about, that we shouldn’t be involved with. Instead, our focus must be on defeating terrorism and destroying ISIS, and we will. Almost two year later, Trump would continue to repeat his non-interventionist promise when he stated on December 19, 2018, that “[w]e have defeated ISIS in Syria, my only reason for being there during the Trump Presidency.” However, from the beginning of Trump’s presidential campaign, his expressed non-interventionist position was negated by his staunch support for the interests of Israel.

Trump made the renegotiation of the Iran nuclear deal—a deal he described as disastrous—as one of his main foreign affairs campaign promises. Moreover, hardline supporters of Israel loomed large in his campaign team, such as son-in-law Jared Kushner, David M. Friedman, and Jason D. Greenblatt. And Trump selected Michael Flynn, a strong critic of Iran, who was a senior adviser to Trump during his presidential campaign and also his first national security adviser. Flynn’s pro-Israel credentials loomed large since he had coauthored a book, The Field of Fight: How We Can Win the Global War Against Radical Islam and Its Allies, with staunch neocon Michael Ledeen.

Trump’s advisers would become even more pro-Israel and anti-Iran with the addition of John Bolton, who played a significant role in bringing about the war on Iraq in 2003, as national security adviser in April 2018, and Mike Pompeo who became Secretary of State in April 2018. Both of these key figures have pushed for an attack on Iran.


Like many evangelical Christians, Pompeo is more supportive of Israel than most Jews. He has said that it is “possible” that Trump is meant to save the Jewish people, like Esther in the Old Testament, who used her wiles to prevent a massacre of Persian Jews.

Trump announced the U.S. withdrawal from the nuclear deal with Iran on May 8, 2018. This carried out his campaign promise and was something he could do unilaterally since the nuclear deal was a non-binding political agreement, not a treaty ratified by the U.S. Senate. Trump alleged that Iran was violating the agreement though there was no evidence for this. The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), which was authorized to verify and monitor the nuclear deal, had repeatedly found Iran to be in compliance, and the Trump administration had not officially disputed IAEA’s assessment when the United States was still a member of the JCPOA.

After pulling out of the nuclear agreement, the United States was in the strange position of demanding that Iran still abide by it. Furthermore, the United States levied a series of sanctions which quickly had a devastating impact upon the Iranian economy.

On May 21, 2018 , almost two weeks after the United States exited from the nuclear deal, Secretary of State Pompeo, in a speech to the conservative Heritage Foundation, presented 12 demands (he would shortly add one more, human rights) for inclusion in any new nuclear treaty with Iran, most of which being unrelated to nuclear weapons. These requirements included: terminating support for any alleged terrorist groups—which meant groups hostile to Israel and Saudi Arabia, such as Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis; removal of all forces under Iranian command in Syria, even though Iran played a significant role in defeating the Jihadi rebels there; disarming and demobilizing Shiite militias in Iraq, even though these militias played a major role in defeating ISIS; ending the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps’ support for alleged terrorists from the perspective of Israel and Saudi Arabia; ceasing Iran’s threatening behavior against its neighbors such as Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates; and ending threats to international shipping and cyberattacks. The totality of these requirements would have left Iran unable to defend itself against its enemies. In short, Pompeo’s demands could only be accepted by a government of a thoroughly defeated country. His demands emulated Rome’s treatment of Carthage after the Second Punic War before it was obliterated following the Third Punic War.

While the neocons and Israel firsters in his administration are pushing for war with the Iran, Trump acts as if he wants to avoid such a conflict. He certainly had the opportunity to launch war with Iran after it downed a U.S. surveillance drone—a massive RQ-4A Global Hawk costing around \$130 million–over the Strait of Hormuz, which the United States claimed was in international waters. Whether this was true of not, the U.S. government has had a history of going to war over questionable, or outright false claims, such as the sinking of the U.S.S. Maine that led to the Spanish-American War; the alleged attack on an American ship in Gulf of Tonkin, which caused a much greater involvement in the Vietnam War; and the claim that Iraq had WMD, which ultimately led to the U.S. invasion of that country.

According to reports, Trump’s advisers were divided on how to respond. Bolton, Pompeo, and the CIA director, Gina Haspel, sought a military response, which Pentagon officials opposed. Trump initially called for a military strike on Iran in response but then aborted the mission at the last moment because, he claimed, it would lead to a large number of Iranian casualties, which was disproportionate to what Iran had done.

One interesting explanation for the non-attack put forth by the website Moon of Alabama provides some information that indicates that Trump planned a fake attack and instructed members of his administration to ask the Iranians for permission to bomb an area of their country that would not do any real damage. The Iranians, however, rejected this setup. While Trump’s explanation might seem questionable, given the myriad of leaks that have come out of his administration, it is hard to believe that this aforementioned strategy would be discussed, much less be proposed to Iran.

Trump realizes that war with Iran would not lead to any easy victory for the U.S. and would cause a devastating impact on the world oil market. He not only would want to avoid this situation per se but would grasp the likelihood that a war with Iran would entail a morass that would almost guarantee his defeat in the 2020 election, for it is quite clear that most Americans are opposed to such a war.

But how does this approach affect Israel and its American minions? Philip Weiss, a staunch Jewish critic of Israel, contends: “Trump’s climbdown represents a real defeat for the Israel lobby. Clearly Israel and its rightwing supporters wanted an attack on Iran and they did not get it.” But as I pointed out earlier, the Israel lobby does not get everything it wants especially when its plan might embroil the United States in a large war.

But what about Trump’s need for funds from large pro-Israel donors for the 2020 election? Last-minute funds from multi-billionaire Sheldon Adelson were quite likely the key to Trump’s hairbreadth victory in the 2016 election. Would he get support from Adelson and other pro-Zionist billionaires if he does not make war on Iran as they desire?

As pointed out earlier, if the United States were enmeshed in war with Iran, Trump would almost be guaranteed to lose the 2020 election no matter how much money Adelson and his fellow pro-Israel plutocrats contribute to his campaign. Also, this group will not be as crucial for Trump in the 2020 election because he has already amassed a large war chest, which was lacking in 2016. Moreover, Republican funders who provided monetary support to other Republican candidates in the 2016 primary election would have these funds available for Trump in 2020 since almost all would prefer Trump over any Democrat.

Furthermore, even if Trump does not make war on Iran, he has provided benefits to Israel and the Adelsons that the Democrats are not likely to offer. For example, Trump has moved the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem, recognized Syria’s Golan Heights as part of Israel, and, of course, placed heavy sanctions on Iran.

Moreover, Trump awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom to Adelson’s wife, Miriam, and she has reciprocated, writing: “Would it be too much to pray for a day when the Bible gets a ‘Book of Trump,’ much like it has a ‘Book of Esther’ celebrating the deliverance of the Jews from ancient Persia?”

Given what Trump has already done for Israel and the Adelsons, it would be quite reasonable that the couple would believe that Trump would take a more militant stance toward Iran, even making war, in his second administration when he would not have to worry about re-election. Also, there is no evidence that any Democratic candidate for the presidency would do as much for Israel.

The fact of the matter is that by pulling out of Obama’s nuclear agreement and threatening sanctions on all countries that attempt to deal with Iran, the United States has already seriously weakened Iran, forcing it to greatly reduce its funding of Syrian groups and even its closest ally Hezbollah.

As an article in the Washington Post of May 18, 2019, points out: “Hezbollah, the best funded and most senior of Tehran’s proxies, has seen a sharp fall in its revenue and is being forced to make draconian cuts to its spending, according to Hezbollah officials, members and supporters.

“Fighters are being furloughed or assigned to the reserves, where they receive lower salaries or no pay at all, said a Hezbollah employee with one of the group’s administrative units. Many of them are being withdrawn from Syria, where the militia has played an instrumental role in fighting on behalf of President Bashar al-Assad and ensuring his survival.”

In addition to this diminution of support, Israel has been bombing Iranian targets in Syria. And Syria is of vital importance to Iran. Leading figures in Iran have referred to Syria as “a golden ring of resistance against Israel” and Iran’s “35th province.” Assad’s Syria has provided a conduit for arms from Iran to reach Hezbollah and, to a lesser extent, Hamas. With Iranian arms those groups play a critical role in Iran’s strategy to deter, and if necessary, retaliate against an Israeli attack on it. However, a weakened Hezbollah would not be able to effectively attack Israel, much less provide substantial help to Iran in combat with the United States.

But how long will the Iranian populace be willing to have their government supply its allies as their own standard of living continues to plummet due to the U.S. sanctions? Iran is not a totalitarian state, such as North Korea where the population is virtually under total control. There is considerable evidence that while the great bulk of the Iranian population is willing to undergo great sacrifice in defense of their own country, they are not willing to do the same in support of Iran’s allies. And a significant number of Iranians are already critical of these ties.

If the United States continues to rely on sanctions but does not attack Iran militarily, it could cause Iran to give up supporting its proxies, who themselves would have become weaker as a result of diminished support from Iran.

Although the current Iranian government could support some type of compromise peace, it certainly would not concede to the harsh demands put forth by Pompeo. Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif told NBC News that “room for negotiation is wide open” once the United States removes its stringent sanctions, but another Iranian official, presumably at the behest of Ayatollah Khamenei, who is the actual ruler of Iran, added that negotiations would not include Iran’s missiles.

What has been the result of Trump’s treatment of Iran? There has yet to be a Carthaginian peace that Israel and its American supporters would like. Iran will remain a power that could resist Israel. However, the sanctions have weakened Iran and its allies, which should mean that Iran will not be as aggressive as it has been, and thus Israel’s position in the Middle East has improved for the time being. Nonetheless, it is not apparent how long this will continue. And undoubtedly Israel and its American supporters will continue to believe, or at least pretend to believe, that Israel still faces annihilation unless the United States does more for it.

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  1. alexander says:

    Excellent article.

    I have a question for you.

    The JCPOA was signed onto , unanimously, by all the world powers.

    It also took the form of a UN Security Council Resolution, which was also passed unanimously.

    Since the US is (indeed) a permanent member of the UN Security Council , once it enters into , agrees to, and signs onto a UNSC resolution, does that resolution not function , for all intents and purposes, as a “treaty”?

    Is the absence of a “Senate vote” germane in the case ?

    How exactly do our laws work, when it comes to ratified UNSC resolutions ?

    It is not clear to me .

    Could you (or someone) please explain ?

  2. A most interesting and informative article.

    On a recent podcast with Richard Spencer and three others, the question discussed was why Trump has not yet attacked Iran. One possibility raised was that, due to massive immigration of brown people from the Thrid World, who are generally not supportive of Israel, the Oligarchs are afraid of the domestic reaction and civil unrest should Trump start bombing Iran for no good reason – and there is none.

    In other words, the fact that the US is no longer a white monolith is working against the Israel-firsters. If the US was still an 85% white country, Iran might already be devastated. We can see what’s happening in the aging “White Party,” the GOP, being 100% with Israel, no matter the cost to their future electoral chances. At the same time, the quickly browning young Democrats are increasingly turning against Israel. It would be poetic justice if the open borders Israel-first Oligarchs are stymied by those immigrants they demanded be let into the country.

    It can be hard to support white people of the GOP persuasion when they so willingly allow themselves to be tools of, and cannon fodder for, Greater Israel.

  3. @alexander

    I can’t answer your question about the law and UNSC Resolutions, but would point out the following:

    1) The JCPOA is a voluntary restriction, by Iran, over its rights as an NPT signatory;
    2) Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khomeini, who died in 1989, called nuclear weapons the work of the devil and declared Iran would not build nukes. His successor Ayatollah Khamenei issued a fatwa seven years ago officially banning nuclear weapons.
    3) The US is in violation of the NPT which obliges the 5 nuclear armed states to assist signatories in the development of nuclear technology for peaceful purposes. I won’t count US non-compliance due to its 6 “lost” nukes.
    4) The IAEA is not party to the NPT, but is charged with policing the NPT. It has never found Iran to be in non-compliance with the NPT or the JCPOA, despite the most invasive inspection regime ever.
    5) Israel is not an NPT signatory. It refuses to allow the IAEA access to areas of Dimona.

    While Israel wants a free hand, Iran’s nuclear program competes with the US. Canada, the world’s largest producer of radionuclides for medical purposes, stopped production, for reasons too long to relate. This was foreseen by both Iran and the US. Iran is capable of producing more, at less cost, than the US, but enrichment has to be above the 5% allowed in the JCPOA. The JCPOA has Iran sending partially enriched uranium to countries who are able to further enrich the ore, and produce medical radionuclides. The market is worth billions world wide. In essence, under the JCPOA, Iran was sanctioning itself.
    Let’s not get into Iran selling oil in other currencies than the US dollar.

    All wars are economic wars.

  4. c matt says:

    How exactly do our laws work, when it comes to ratified UNSC resolutions ?

    (((We))) enforce the ones (((we))) want to enforce, and ignore the ones (((we))) don’t want to enforce. As a true American, the first, last and every in-between criteria is how does this affect Israel?

  5. ‘…Assad’s Syria has provided a conduit for arms from Iran to reach Hezbollah and, to a lesser extent, Hamas…’

    How could Syria serve as a conduit for arms to reach Hamas?

  6. Anon[253] • Disclaimer says:

    Seems pretty obvious that JewLand is a curse on Humanity. Has been and will be until it is gone. Seems pretty obvious what needs to be done. Do you really think most of the human beings on this planet give a rat’s ass about JewLand or Jews except in the most negative ways? It’s only a small minority of people who seem to thrive on Jew\$hit eating. I guess each to his or her own ways.

  7. KLM says:

    In other words, the fact that the US is no longer a white monolith is working against the Israel-firsters.

    And that can be said even more of the major European countries that the Zionist lobby would like to count on as allies. Especially Britain and France but also Germany. The Muslim minorities in these countries exert a lot more anti-Zionist political influence than in the US. And keeping them happy through welfare empties the public coffers – so that there is less money to spend on the military. What is even more, what is left of these military forces is also weakened mentally by gender and LBTQ politics.

    We maybe seeing an inflection point where the parasite has eaten up its host to such a degree where the host’s usefulness to the parasite is starting to diminish materially.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  8. Franz says:

    Moreover, Trump awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom to Adelson’s wife, Miriam

    Why are we even acting as if Trump is anything but Adelson’s orange-haired Pinocchio?

    2016: Trump installed as Chief Punching Bag for the leftist nutbags for 4 or maybe 8 years because Hillary was too obviously nutters or ill or both.

    It’s the only scenario that makes sense anymore, and lots of people mentioned it while it happened.

  9. TKK says:

    it would be reasonable to assume that Iran is threatened far more by Israel than Israel is by Iran. But that is not how the Alice-in-Wonderland U.S. media and politicians present the situation.

    Another fantasy is to pretend that the ruling Shia clerks in Iran do not have banners hanging from every mosque that shout:


    On every main thoroughfare. Murals 50 feet high.

    It’s not still about the Shah.

    It’s a shame, as the Persians I have met in Turkey are some of the most hospitable and kind people ever encountered. As in- drive you 5 hours for free, prepare a meal in their home for you like king , never mention religion and never take any money.

    They are not saber rattling.

    To that end, to ignore that constant death cult rhetoric is intellectually dishonest at best.

    Hamas is not a resistance- it’s a terrorist organization.

    To present these issues in such a ham fisted manner, with no acknowledgment of Iran’s global funding of terrorism, makes your credibility as an political analyst on the mark of the repellent Rachel Maddow.

    Just without the millions. Whose the dummy?

  10. sarz says:

    I have argued that Trump is a crypto-Jew with an overwhelming ambition to serve Israel, even while risking the financial basis of Jewish power. I conjecture that the Epstein arrest is the big finance Jews bringing Trump down. Even if Epstein is murdered I don’t think Trump can survive. I would bet he’s not going to be a candidate.

    The reason Trump is not going ahead with war on Iran is because it finally dawned on him that a war will destroy the United States by destroying global finance if nothing else. Trump had readied “usable” nukes against Iran since all the war games show there’s no way a conventional war can be won. But Putin had very formally and unequivocally stated that a nuke, no matter how small, on Russia or an ally would be responded to as a nuclear attack on Russia. He didn’t spell out who the allies were. His friend and national security advisor Patrushev spelled that out a year later in the recent much heralded meeting in Israel with Pompeo and Netanyahu. In public Patrushev clearly announced that Iran is an ally. The Israeli newspapers headlined it. They knew what it meant, since it’s just putting one and one together to get two. In private I suspect Patrushev spelled out that any base from which a “usable” nuke was launched on Iran would no longer exist after half an hour or so.

  11. J says: • Website

    The dominant power in the Middle East is the USA.
    Iran challenges its dominance and works to project its influence on Yemen, Saudia, Irak (which is almost its colony), Syria, Lebanon and so. Iran rules the Hormuz Straits, and wants to extract rents and political power from this geographical bottleneck.
    It seems to me irrational to assume, as the writer does, that the whole world turns around a mini-country, Israel.

  12. gotmituns says:

    At least that bunch of half caste female women nitwits in congress are calling out israel. So that just goes to show you, half caste female women nitwits are not always wrong.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  13. The leadership of Iran has stated in recent months that, if Iran cannot export its oil through the Persian Gulf, then neither will anyone else.

    As the author points out, Iranians are already suffering from the lawless US sanctions and I think it is unreasonable to expect them to sit back and do nothing. I am pretty sure they have been gaming out invasion and assymetrical warfare scenarios and the like for nearly four decades.

    Unless the US and Israel (and vassal states liek the UK) back off, there is going to be an outcome of huge consequence. It may be that the only thing that will convince the madmen (and mad women) in Washington and Tel Aviv is the collapse of the global economy by virtue of a prolonged interruption of the flow of oil from the Gulf.

    It is worth remembering that the Romans didn’t fare too well against the Persians on their eastern borders. Julian the Apostate, with Jewish money, tried to defeat them in 362-3, and died in the desert. I suppose we should commend Julian’s bravery under the influence of Jewish money. Bolton and Trump won’t be putting themselves anywhere near harm’s way.

    • Replies: @jester
  14. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:

    USA-UK is a maritime power like Carthague . Iran , China , Russia are land powers like Rome .

    The USA is fighting wars in too many fronts , not only external ( hot wars ,cold wars , trade wars , color revolutions ) but internal civil wars ( war of the sexes or feminism , war of the races or ” anti-racism ” ) , a very dangerous situation .

  15. anon[252] • Disclaimer says:

    > so willingly allow themselves to be tools

    The abject self-humiliation is worth the magical afterlife that the Jewish fable-makers, as Jewhovah’s Chosen people, provide Whites.

    “For if the Gentiles have shared in the Jews’ spiritual blessings, they owe it to the Jews to share with them their material blessings.” Romans 15:27

    Hey, right there in black and white from the Jew Testament is America’s foreign policy!

    • Replies: @anon
  16. mike k says:

    Not a single mention of Russia or China’s silk road project? The author draws a very incomplete picture.

    • Replies: @foolisholdman
  17. Alfred says:


    Hoist with his own petard comes to mind.

    But then don’t forget that there are elite Zionists and run-of-the-mill Zionists. The first category will move to Russia or Ukraine or some other sensible country. The second category will be left behind.

  18. anon[252] • Disclaimer says:

    News: Russia gives Israel the S-300 data to allow F-35’s to fly over Iran without the S-300 missiles being able to lock on.

    True story.

    Tehran suspects that Moscow has given Jerusalem codes from the S-300 aerial defense systems, which enabled Israel’s multirole F-35 combat aircraft to stealthily penetrate Iran’s airspace…

    Tehran suspects Israel is being assisted by Moscow | UA Wire | July 25, 2019

    Rootin’ Jewtin’ Putin!

    • Replies: @Mike P
    , @Parisian Guy
  19. bucky says:

    Israel could have annexed the West Bank at any time over the past ten years and Iran wouldn’t be able to do anything about it.

    More to the point, they wouldn’t much care to. Saudi citizens would be angrier at an annexation because Palestinians are Arabs and Sunni Muslims.

    No, Israel props Iran up as a big bad because Israel needs an enemy that is worthy of being an enemy. The IDF in reality has been bogged down for decades in the Palestinians muck and mire. Without Iran as a unifying enemy, Israel is alone with the Palestinians.

    And in the event of a hot war with Iran, Israel has the excuse and international cover to expel millions of Palestinians.

    This is why Israel is amping it up. We are just tools in their little game.

    • Replies: @Emile
    , @headrick
  20. As you write this article there is an slaughtering of astronomic scale of the american middle class,down to the surviving or poor class, as if Trump and the financial class, and the corrupt local state and government has theme-self impose ,with the help of amazon and other monopolies,medical system,pharmaceutical,rentals , etc a gigantic and multidimensional economic sanction to us.
    You write as there is no issue in our own economic and political system so our government can dedicate to work for Israel.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  21. Emile says:

    If the conclusions of the article are good it means that Iran is sure to weaken more and more. Iran will not let that happen and will force the US to a different option that Trump does not want. He will thus have the choice between losing the elections and giving up (partially) the sanctions. They tried by shooting down the 130m\$ drone.

  22. Despite Israel’s overwhelming military superiority in the Near East, its prospects are not really bright. The superiority is largely a technological one and will cost increasingly more money to maintain. Let’s not forget that Israel barely escaped destruction in the 2006 Lebanon War, saved only by the bravery and fighting skills of the thousands of Russians in the army (both certified Jews and Goyim).

    Israel was created only in 1948 and is therefore 71 years old this year. Its true historical predecessor is not the Biblical Kingdom of David or Solomon, but the Kingdom of Jerusalem. This crusader state was founded in 1099, perishing only two centuries later in 1291, despite being supported through its connections to France and other European monarchies. The parallel with Israel, which apparently relies chiefly on US protection is quite obvious, c.p. of course, as economists are wont to remark. It was Marx himself who once remarked, referring to Hegel, that everything in history occurs twice: the first time as tragedy, the second time as comedy, or farce.

    Given the general human propensity for hubris (as Jewish history amply demonstrates), it is evident that Israel cannot last and that its days are numbered. Netanyahu provides almost a textbook case of what hubris can do to a person. It reminds one of the scene in Verdi’s Nabucco, where Babylon’s King is struck by madness. Thousands of Israeli citizens realize this and are busy acquiring foreign passports. Some 100,000 have even discovered their German heritage and received passports. Many Israelis are buying property in Europe just to have a place to go when things will really run out of hand in the Stolen Land. The chickens are coming home to roost, so to speak.

    Moreover, at a time when big, continental and multicultural states are becoming the norm, there is no place for national states. Israel being the ideologically purest expression of a national state, its legislation and administrative practices harkening back to crude 19th-century European national states, there will be no place for it in tomorrow’s world.

    • Replies: @jester
  23. @TKK

    1. The phrase actually means “Down with America.”

    2. At least the Iranians have enough intelligence to recognize and name that entity that seeks to do them harm and to shout out their resistance.
    In USA, Congress rises to cheer the foreign leader of an entity that spies on them, demands tribute of them, kills their military personnel such as USS Liberty, and is bleeding them white.

    Which one is more deserving of respect?

    And speaking of death cult —

    by Chris Hedges


    It was in Gaza, where I lived for weeks at a time during the seven years I spent in the Middle East, that I came to know the dark side of the Israeli Defense Force. During the first Palestinian uprising, begun in December 1987 and ended in 1993 with the Oslo peace accords, the army had little interest in crowd control. It fired live rounds at boys hurling rocks. And on a few occasions the Israeli soldiers, angered at the coverage, turned their weapons toward groups of photographers and cameramen. They shot rubber bullets into their legs—doing it with a self-congratulatory arrogance that came to define the occupation for me. . . .

    Barefoot boys, clutching kites made out of scraps of paper and ragged soccer balls, squat a few feet away under scrub trees. Men in flowing white or gray galabias—homespun robes—smoke cigarettes in the shade of slim eaves. Two emaciated donkeys, their ribs protruding, are tethered to wooden carts with rubber wheels.

    It is still. The camp waits, as if holding its breath. And then, out of the dry furnace air, a disembodied voice crackles over a loudspeaker.

    “Come on, dogs,” the voice booms in Arabic. “Where are all the dogs of Khan Younis? Come! Come!”

    I stand up. I walk outside the hut. The invective continues to spew: “Son of a bitch!” “Son of a whore!” “Your mother’s cunt!”

    The boys dart in small packs up the sloping dunes to the electric fence that separates the camp from the Jewish settlement. They lob rocks toward two armored jeeps parked on top of the dune and mounted with loudspeakers. Three ambulances line the road below the dunes in anticipation of what is to come.

    A percussion grenade explodes. The boys, most no more than ten or eleven years old, scatter, running clumsily across the heavy sand. They descend out of sight behind a sandbank in front of me. There are no sounds of gunfire. The soldiers shoot with silencers. The bullets from the M-16 rifles tumble end over end through the children’s slight bodies. Later, in the hospital, I will see the destruction: the stomachs ripped out, the gaping holes in limbs and torsos.

    Yesterday at this spot the Israelis shot eight young men, six of whom were under the age of eighteen. One was twelve. This afternoon they kill an eleven-year-old boy, Ali Murad, and seriously wound four more, three of whom are under eighteen. Children have been shot in other conflicts I have covered—death squads gunned them down in El Salvador and Guatemala, mothers with infants were lined up and massacred in Algeria, and Serb snipers put children in their sights and watched them crumple onto the pavement in Sarajevo—but I have never before watched soldiers entice children like mice into a trap and murder them for sport.

    • Replies: @TKK
  24. Frankie P says:

    Who’s the dummy?

    The half wit who is unable to spell ‘who’s’!

    The half wit who thinks that the ‘Death to the USA’ signs are a result of them ‘hating us for our freedom’.

    The half wit who plays it fast and loose with the ‘terrorist’ label for resistance movements against his apartheid Jewish State, a state that was only too happy to provide medical support for headchopping terrorists in Syria, as long as they opposed the legitimate Alawite government.

    Go eat your ham, Jew. There’s a fist that will descend on you and your vile tribalist brothers, just as it always does, throughout history, throughout geographic areas, throughout every host culture you have infested.

    God just doesn’t like you people, and either do I.

    Frankie P

    • LOL: TKK
    • Replies: @TKK
  25. Emile says:

    Palestinians in Israel are human shield against any muslim nuclear power. (if not now, in the future ).

    • Replies: @Bucky
  26. Mike P says:

    If indeed Israel has the codes, then it is far from clear that the got them through the connivance of the Russian government.

  27. jester says:

    One needs to read the book “Fiasco” to see how incompetent the political and military leadership was in the Iraq conflict. IN addition, the US is stretched thin militarily.

    There ain’t too many GI Joes willing to die and bleed for the lying draft dodging politicos in Washington.

    Another war against Iran would have China and Russia jumping for joy as the US bleeds lives and treasure in the Middle East frying pan and also gives them a free hand in and beond their areas of influence and ambition.

    It boggles my mind that the US gives \$38B to Israel while the US and its citizens suck salt, kinda like handing over your salary to the neighbour while you and yours live under a plastic sheet and eat dandelions.

    If Israel wants to rumble with the Ayatollahs then let them do their thing….they have the latest US weapons and \$38B. If the US could not prevail against Iraq which is one quarter the size of Iran, I doubt Israel or the US will prevail against Iran.

    Besides, Iran can close the Hormuz strait and God alone knows who they have wandering around the US.

    There will be a lot of talk folks but I doubt there will be any war. Then again, that’s me and my logic. How the politicians in Washington think is another matter, if indeed thinking is the correct word !

    • Agree: Kolya Krassotkin
  28. jester says:
    @Hans Vogel

    Well said and well presented !

  29. jester says:
    @Tsar Nicholas

    You mean to tell me that Bolthead, Pompous and the Trumpet will be in an air conditioned office eating and drinking of the best, wiping their arses with double thick Charmaine, sleeping between clean white sheets and their family, friends and flunkies safely tucked away in the Hamptons or Florida ????

    and all the while American youth will be roasting in the desert heat, bleeding and being maimed, sleeping in dirty clothes in a smelly sleeping bag, eating out of a can and shitting in a hole in the sand ?

    I have to disagree. Our leaders will be right out front in the charge with banners that read “Mission Accomplished” because that is the kind of leaders we have.

    They lead from the rear………..ah I mean from the front !

  30. Mike P says:

    Cato the Elder, a leading Roman senator, is said to have ended all his speeches with the words: “Carthago delenda est!”

    The actual quote is “Ceterum censeo Cartiginem esse delendam” – “By the way, I think Carthago should be destroyed.” The difference being, he didn’t shout “Bomb, bomb Iran” – he relied on constant repetition rather than noise level.

  31. @follyofwar

    What podcast was that? Could you provide a link?

  32. Hamas is a mossad front used to give Israel the excuse to bomb and kill Palestinians, otherwise I agree with this article, Israel controls the zio/US and all the millions of deaths in the middle east are on the zionists, and also 911 which was done by Israel and zionist traitors in the zio/US government.

    Also if anyone wants to see how Israel and the zionists control America, not only the joint Israeli and zio/US attack on the WTC on 911, but the joint Israeli and zio/US government attack on the USS Liberty and to see more on this get the book Blood in the Water by Joan Mellen, it can be had on amazon.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  33. Agent76 says:

    May 3, 2011 U.S.-Iran Relations: Past, Present, and Future by the CFR

    Watch experts discuss relations between the United States and Iran, including Iran’s role in Iraq, the U.S. National Intelligence Estimate, and prospects for an improved U.S.-Iran relationship in the future.

    July 5, 2019 The Un-submersible US-Iran Stalemate

    Lost in the submarine uproar, the deadline set by Tehran for the EU-3 to support Iranian crude sales expires Sunday.

  34. anonymous[204] • Disclaimer says:

    Attention, Attention

    If people who are concerned about FREE SPEECH are not mobilized and don’t block these zionist spy networks FACEBOOK, TWITTER, then soon this site will follow the same fate.

    BLOCK FACEBOOK, and TWITTER from your page. Don’t use these intelligence services outlets.
    They are informants for the Evil Empire and Zionist Jewish mafia AGAINST YOU. These spy network have corrupted our world and deserve to be totally destroyed. They spy on you and make billions at the same time. Kill them both.

    {{Facebook, Twitter and Google (which includes YouTube) have mobilised to purge their networks of political activists, analysts and anyone in general impeding the special interests these three tech giants represent.

    Ironically, despite Washington, London and Brussels accusing Russia of being an authoritarian state, safe havens like VK, Yandex and LiveJournal are giving dissident voices in the West space to say things they are prohibited from saying on Facebook, Twitter and Google.

    The New Atlas is a blog now on LiveJournal shared by several authors and activists recently targeted by Facebook and Twitter specifically with our accounts purged from their platforms for using “fictitious personas.” }}

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  35. turtle says:

    West Bank and Gaza are sideshows.
    What I call “Operation Anaconda” to squeeze them to death is at full throttle (pun intended).
    The real (intended) Israeli action is farther north, where they hope to conquer territory, more specifically South Lebanon.
    Why? Water. In an arid climate, water is the most precious resource.
    Look for the Jews to invade South Lebanon again, once their military commanders have convinced themselves they can defeat Hezbollah, or at least not be blamed should they lose the war.
    The immediate objective will be the south bank of the Litani river, from which they hope to draw water for agricultural purposes and, more importantly, domestic water supplies for new “settlements.”

  36. Bucky says:

    No, that is not how it works. Palestinians are the central issue of the last fifty years of Mid East politics. They are not secondary. They are the primary issue.

    • Disagree: Zumbuddi
  37. Republic says:

    From Russia Today: July 26,2019

    5 signs US and Iran are not going to war anytime soon

  38. @anonymous

    Ann Neuberg, Orthodox Jewish daughter of one of the 100 wealthiest families in US, granddaughter of survivors of the Holy Holocaust, and whose parents were among the Jews rescued by IDF July 4, 1976 raid at Entebbe (where Bibi’s big brother Jonathan was the only soldier killed), has been appointed to head NSA cyber command.

    Orthodox Jewish woman named cybersecurity chief for US spy agency – Times of Israel

    NSA to establish a defense-minded division named the Cybersecurity Directorate
    The NSA’s new Cybersecurity Directorate to become operational in October.

    recommend a 2015 NPR interview of Neuberg for insights into how holocaustism will influence our lives going forward, and how Neuberg will use her position to (arguably) target enemies of holy Zion, where those enemies might well include the American people.

    Is the formation of the Cybersecurity Directorate linked to “H.R. 1837 “U.S.-Israel Cooperation Enhancement and Regional Security Act”?

    Neuberg’s parents’ link to the July 4, 1976 Sayeret Matkal (“the Unit”) Entebbe raid is not insignificant: Bibi’s older brother, Yonathan, was the only IDF member killed in that raid; his death changed the trajectory of Bibi’s life. The raid was deliberately scheduled for July 4, 1976, as Americans were celebrating their bicentennial, in a bid to cement the glue between American and Jewish-Israeli “fights for freedom.” There is a memorial monument to Yonathan in Philadelphia, PA, just blocks from Independence Hall, which was also the location of the founding of the American Jewish Congress in 1918

    In July, 1979, Benzion and Benjamin Netanyahu hosted a conference in Jerusalem at the Yonathan Institute. The Jerusalem Conference laid out the blueprint for the global war on terror; George H. W. Bush spoke at the Conference in the company of former Trotskyites – neoconservatives

    Bibi edited a book that collected the speeches at the Conference,
    International Terrorism: Challenge and Response ; [the Jerusalem Conference on International Terrorism]
    So, Neuberg is linked to Bibi Netanyahu and the Jewish zionist-designed plan to control the world.

    The “terror” target of the 1979 Jerusalem Conference was Arafat and the PLA.

    The target of the GWOT has shifted over the years, but it’s worth noting that the Bush family as well as successor presidents have been present at the creation of each of these shifts of focus.

    Reza Pahlavi was still in charge in July, 1979; George H W Bush played a key role in putting Ayatollah Khomeini in his place in what (I consider) the second US orchestrated coup of the Iranian people’s government.

    There followed the US-provoked Iran-Iraq war in which ~a million Iranians died.

    Then came the Papa Bush- led unnecessary war on Iraq, ostensibly to free Kuwait but in fact, to exert US dominance in a newly-unipolar world. That war eventuated in sanctions on Iraq that killed half-a-million children, a proud fete that US leaders are attempting to duplicate in Iran.

    In 1995, AIPAC wrote the executive order that Bill Clinton signed that sanctioned Iran and Libya. The Order was made permanent in the D’Amato Libya-Iran Sanctions Amendment, also drafted by AIPAC, according to Richard Silverstein in conversation with Keith Weissman, then of AIPAC, in a Dec. 2007 conference (no longer online).

    In (what I consider) the most significant commentary on Sept. 11, 2001, Ehud Barak redirected the focus of the GWOT to “bin Laden” and “Islamic terrorism.”

    There followed in train the Bush wars in Afghanistan and Iraq; Obama and SoS Clinton-engineered wars of aggression against Libya and Syria, with the chronic economic and propaganda attacks on Iran, punctuated by a series of assassinations of Iran’s nuclear scientists, playing in the background.
    The economic wars against Iran have been and continue to be waged by zionist Jews in US Treasury Dept, from Stuart Levey to Daniel Cohen to Sigal Mandelker who heads that activity today.

    That background theme has now come to the fore, with Jews more firmly embedded in key positions to maneuver American resources, treasure and blood to slake the inexhaustible lust of Jews to displace and destroy.

    Ann Neuberg is the latest Esther in that tradition.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    , @Miro23
  39. @SolontoCroesus

    – – – a proud fete feat that US leaders are attempting to duplicate in Iran.

  40. And of course Carthage was destroyed: as eventually was Rome. History shows it is the fate of every empire. While the North African city state was a rival that had to be crushed, at times Rome and Carthage were allies, for example against Pyrrhus of Epirus. Alliances change on the specific circumstances of any given time. The Carthaginian analogy illustrates the fate of players in even today’s conflicts. If Washington chooses war with Iran, President Trump’s re-election could be in jeopardy. But the consequences of attacking Iran could be a confrontation with China and Russia, both with shared vital interests in the region. That would result in world war, a price far too high

  41. Carthage almost delivered mortal blow to Rome under Hannibal leadership. Rome suffered around 20% death rate among males from.that conflict and Italy was left in ruined state with many peasants losing livelihood and as some point eventually leading to necessity for nringing in proletarians from cities to serve in military, leading to professional army and fall of Republic. It was more akin to USSR vs Germany. However Rome wisely eliminated the foe, while USSR let Germany live. Iran on the other hand never done anything to USA and USA behaviour is totally unprovoked and aggressive without any reason, but Israeli lobbying.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  42. Ron Unz says:
    @Desert Fox

    Also if anyone wants to see how Israel and the zionists control America, not only the joint Israeli and zio/US attack on the WTC on 911, but the joint Israeli and zio/US government attack on the USS Liberty and to see more on this get the book Blood in the Water by Joan Mellen, it can be had on amazon.

    These endless adverts for the Joan Mellen book finally persuaded me to glance at it on Amazon, and I noticed somewhere that it had a very positive blurb from Prof. Richard Falk, so I ordered and read it a week or two ago. It’s got to be one of the worst and trashiest books I’ve recently read. Here’s part of a note I dropped to someone I know:

    While some of the material is interesting, I was *extremely* disappointed overall. Most of the claims seemed utterly outlandish and seemingly based upon almost no solid evidence, while even appearing to contradict each other from one page to the next.

    Her “theory” is that LBJ and several of our highest-ranking government and military officials planned the attack on the Liberty in collaboration with the Israelis. Now that’s somewhat implausible, but it gets much, much worse. She goes on to say that the plan was to blame the attack on the Egyptians and use it as an excuse for a US nuclear-strike(!) against Cairo, immediately followed by an all-out US nuclear first strike against the entire USSR(!). But because the Liberty didn’t sink, World War III was called off…

    Moreover, the editing of the book is absolutely appalling, among the worst I’ve ever encountered, with almost the same identical passage written again and again and again, and with dreadfully bad organization.

    It seems to me if you’re making the most absurdly ridiculous “conspiratorial” claims about a controversial subject, you should try at least to proofread your book a little, so the presentation isn’t as extremely bad as the theory is implausible.

    My correspondent totally agreed and speculated that Prof. Falk hadn’t actually read the book before praising it.

    Since all sorts of conspiracy-types hang around this website, I just wanted to urge them not to waste their money on total garbage…

  43. Ahoy says:

    On the left column of this page there is an article by Paul Kersey that deals with a car accident in 83% black Detroit.

    Tyler Wingate a 24 year old is involved in a car accident with a black man. The black motorist beats him to death

    A nation without a tightly knit social fabric and without deep faith in its beginning and its heroes is doomed to fail. Today USA is a nation of pedophiles and all kinds of deviates that drive the Nation straight to Hell. An army in high heels cannot wim a war anywhere on this earth anymore.

    Either Americans wake up soon or “USA delenda est” not Iran.

  44. Miro23 says:

    Orthodox Jewish woman named cyber security chief for US spy agency – Times of Israel

    Well, a MAGA Anglo Christian isn’t going to be appointed cyber security chief of Israel’s spy agency.

    Eventually you have to conclude that that lazy, cowardly and corrupt Anglo Americans deserve everything they’re going to get.

  45. The quote I cite below is not written in stone.

    “the likelihood that a war with Iran would entail a morass that would almost guarantee his defeat in the 2020 election”

    If you follow the increasingly distressed and depressed Adam Green fighting overwhelming odds for Americans on ‘Know more News’ on U tube, you will learn an orthodox jewish woman is now the head of major American secret agency.

    Wake up Americans, your country is being subverted and has become an occupied country.

    Not all of you are lard asses. Switch off the TVees and do it for your kids future and the world.

    • Agree: Kolya Krassotkin
  46. @Ron Unz

    I stand by what I said about the book Blood in the Water and it exposes the collusion between the Israelis and zionist traitors in the zio/US gov and Joan Mellen has interviewed 40 of the crew on the USS Liberty and the proof of this war crime by Israel and the zio/US is overwhelming.

    The same can be said of the joint Israeli and zio/US attack on 911 which not only killed some 3000 Americans but led to the deaths of millions of innocent civilians in the middle east, Americans need to wake up and smell the coffee, we are slaves on a zionist plantation!

    • Replies: @renfro
  47. A123 says:

    Since the US is (indeed) a permanent member of the UN Security Council , once it enters into , agrees to, and signs onto a UNSC resolution, does that resolution not function , for all intents and purposes, as a “treaty”?… Is the absence of a “Senate vote” germane in the case ?

    Amending the U.S. Constitution is defined in Article 5. The creation of the United Nations did not amend the Constitution via Article 5, thus all powers enumerated in the U.S. Constitution remain unchanged by that event.

    The Treaty Clause is Article 2, Section 2, Clause 2. As this is an enumerated power of the Senate, it is the one and only process for binding the U.S. via Treaty. No body, including the UNSC, can wield Treaty powers unless the Constitution is amended.

    How exactly do our laws work, when it comes to ratified UNSC resolutions ?

    The creation of Legislation (a.k.a. Laws) is enumerated to the House and Senate under Article 1 of the Constitution. No body other than the Legislature, including the UNSC, has the power to create new laws or modify existing laws. No branch of the U.S. Government is obliged to enforce U.N. resolutions as they are not laws.

    To the extent that a UNSC resolution does not conflict with existing law, the current President can temporarily empower a resolution via an Executive Order that binds their administration. The executive power of the Presidency can rescind that order at anytime. And of course, such an Executive Order has no power to bind subsequent administrations.

    Despite the pomp and circumstance surrounding the UNSC, under the U.S. Constitution and U.S. Law, their resolutions are wholly powerless in the U.S. They are a vehicle of symbolism,not substance.


    • Replies: @turtle
    , @alexander
  48. @Ron Unz

    What are your beliefs regarding the Liberty attack? I looked at the same book on Amazon a couple of weeks ago and came to the same conclusion after perusing the reviews.

    • Replies: @Yapius the 2nd
    , @Ron Unz
  49. @Yapius the 2nd

    Also I would ask which you consider the best book on the subject?

  50. @alexander

    The JCPOA was signed onto , unanimously, by all the world powers.

    It also took the form of a UN Security Council Resolution, which was also passed unanimously.

    Neither of these statements is exactly accurate.

    So-called P5+1 — five states who are also members of the UN Security Council (aka “Allies” in WWII); namely, US, UK, China, France, Russia, + Germany, negotiated to achieve the JCPOA.

    The Obama administration did not consider it a treaty. This hybrid status was a matter of controversy with the Congress, and was resolved by submitted the Agreement to several days’ debate in the Senate, during which senators expressed their opinions on the Agreement, but by agreement between the Obama admin. and Senate, it was not submitted for ratification.

    Obama announced the US executive’s signing of the JCPOA on Aug. 17, 2015 at American University in Washington, DC.

    To the best of my knowledge, the “United Nations” as a body did not ratify nor refrain from ratifying the JCPOA; the UN as such was not a party to the Agreement.

    It is my cynical suspicion that US leaders refraining from treating JCPOA as a Treaty, which would have required validation by the Senate that a. might have been hard to come by; b. might have forced Senators to take a stand that could jeopardize their positions in one way or another, was a calculated move to appease the Israel lobby: A treaty has the force of law; JCPOA is the equivalent of an Executive Order; that is, it could be abrogated by the action of the President, as occurred.
    It’s true that reneging on the JCPOA amounts to breaking a contract, but it’s not difficult to imagine that a different president, maybe even Hillary Clinton, would not have been averse to breaking such a contract given the right inducements.

    But a Treaty would have been far more difficult to break.

    PS Rather refreshing to see the POTUS speaking with only American flags behind him.

    EDIT: I mischaracterized the Senate debate on the JCPOA — the debate itself WAS a sop, but it was also vigorously partisan
    Democrats Hand Victory to Obama on Iran Nuclear Deal

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    , @Republic
  51. @SolontoCroesus


    Wrong again.

    My statement, above:
    To the best of my knowledge, the “United Nations” as a body did not ratify nor refrain from ratifying the JCPOA; the UN as such was not a party to the Agreement.

    is WRONG

    According to an Arms Control Association Fact Sheet,

    “The nuclear deal was endorsed by UN Security Council Resolution 2231, adopted on July 20, 2015.”

  52. turtle says:

    Despite the pomp and circumstance surrounding the UNSC, under the U.S. Constitution and U.S. Law, their resolutions are wholly powerless in the U.S. They are a vehicle of symbolism,not substance.

    Which makes it all the more hilarious when U.S. politicians (e.g. Bush the Elder) start bloviating about the U.N. this, the U.N. that.
    They use it when it suits their purposes, ignore it when it does not.

  53. The only question in my mind of late is when a Sulla equivalent comes to power in the US and how the Israel First crowd who can escape are going to like living in Israel where the Israelis won’t hide their hatred of Zionist Christians or any other sort of Christian.

    Well, maybe not the only question as I do sometimes also wonder how long after such a Sulla arises the US will have its first Caesar.

    Sic transit gloria mundi

  54. Ron Unz says:
    @Yapius the 2nd

    What are your beliefs regarding the Liberty attack? I looked at the same book on Amazon a couple of weeks ago and came to the same conclusion after perusing the reviews.

    Well, the Israeli attack was certainly deliberate, but the exact motive for such a remarkably risky action isn’t clear. Several reasonably plausible possibilities have been proposed over the years, and perhaps it was a combination of them.

    I’ve read the James Ennes and James Scott books, and both of them seemed fine. There was also some coverage in one of the Bamford books, and a long Chicago Tribune article that came out a number of years ago. I’ve even discussed it in several of my own articles.

    Frankly, the Joan Mellen book was so appallingly bad that if I had a “conspiratorial mind” I’d wonder if it had been published merely to discredit all the “Liberty Truthers”…

    • LOL: turtle
    • Replies: @alexander
    , @AnonStarter
  55. @Sergey Krieger

    Speaking of historical allusions, if memory serves, Rome, like Greeks before it, did not do well against Persian Empire. What’s more, Persian Empire existed after the Roman was destroyed. Persia was later defeated by Muslim hordes, but even then it defeated its conquerors: Iran became the bulwark of Shia Islam, a never-ending challenge to the Sunni version of Arabs. They lost their writing, though, now they use Arabic.

  56. Republic says:

    The US has a long history of breaking treaties/agreements. Ask the Indians!

  57. headrick says:

    if they made the west bank part of Israel, then they could reasonably be expected to grant the privileges of citizenship like full voting and fair treatment in courts… If they are kept as a territory inhabited by savages which must be contained outside Israel proper, yet allow settlements to eat away at the square miles involved, over time, the dream of greater Israel can be attained as the west bank is gradually depopulated( their hope). Maybe I am too cynical but the one state solution for Israel is a nightmare for keeping Israel Jewish.

    • Replies: @bucky
  58. alexander says:
    @Ron Unz

    Dear Ron,

    I think the most important aspect to the USS Liberty mission, prior to its coming under attack, was its capacity to discern (from the intelligence it was gathering), who was (and was not) responsible for initiating the war of 1967.

    If it was Egypt, it meant one thing,…… if it was Israel, it meant something else.

    Post WWII, anyone caught initiating a criminal “war of aggression” would be subject to the harshest of sanctions by the entire world community(the US included).

    Perhaps the Liberty’s ability to accurately (and conclusively ) discern the authentic culprit of the crime of aggression which was about to take place, is what made it a target for destruction.

    This makes a certain amount of sense to me .

    Does it make any sense to you ?

  59. Sean says:

    Its all talk. America has not killed Iranians for decades. As evern Sniegoski admits Iran is seriously weakened by US hostility and and that is fine. Not obvious that if Israel had never existed , Iran would be a friend of America. Persia has been is conflict with Arabs from time immemorial. Trump’s quarrel is with with China not economic basket cases likes Iran. But he has to be elected.

  60. renfro says:
    @Ron Unz

    ”She goes on to say that the plan was to blame the attack on the Egyptians and use it as an excuse for a US nuclear-strike(!) against Cairo, immediately followed by an all-out US nuclear first strike against the entire USSR(!). ”

    That is a absurd claim.

    The Israelis attacked the Liberty because they wanted no one observing their actions, period.
    They knew it was American .. …that was relayed to their command and their pilot was told to ‘hit her ‘ anyway.. ..and that is on tape from intercepted Israeli commutations.

    For all the Jewish lying it boils down to one thing…..: Was the ship flying the American flag at the time of the attack, and was that flag visible from the air?
    The answer is YES……it was clearly visible. In fact when the flag was shot down in the first strafing the crew hoisted another even larger flag.

    The Chicago Tribune has one of the best outlines of the facts:

    New revelations in attack on American spy ship

  61. mici says:

    You are trying to ba a failr writer, but still there is a supremacy mindset in your mind. And sadly this does not work..

    1- Iran has not been trying to make nuclear weapons yet…

    2- Iran banned making such weapons even before USA propaganda against Iran. What prevented Iran to make nuclear weapons was only Iranian beliefs. If in future we realize that the fact that we don’t have nuclear weapons is making our enemies more rude then we maybe will decide to make them too… This is what you should emphasiz on , if the writer is honest enough, and also this that countries which either have nuclear weapons (like USA, France, Russia) or have not produced any but instead are okay with those who are making them (like JAPAN and its silence on USA even though they nuked JAPAN!) have no right to ask Iran not to produce such weapons!

    3- If they think they can destroy Iran because Iran does not have nuclear weapons then they are complelety wrong.

    4- Enemies of Iran are cowards, any possible attack will lead these creatures to undefined (to them) surprises by Iranians.

    5- Without the slightest doubt, Iran will be victorious in the battle scene; So nobody gamble on USA and its nuclear weapons!

  62. renfro says:
    @Desert Fox

    Yes there were ‘traitors’, but ‘during and after, not beforehand….specifically Johnson and McNamara……and specifically for recalling US planes responding to Liberty’s call for help….and then again in the cover up afterward.
    Had those planes not been recalled they could and probably would have pursued and fired on the Israeli planes and that likely would have changed the US relations to Israel once and for all.

    • Replies: @Desert Fox
  63. @alexander

    The USS Liberty was ordered into position off the coast of Israel after the war had started, get and read the book, this was a draconian demonic preplanned attack by the zio/US and Israel to be blamed on Egypt, and the Liberty was to be the sacrificial lamb!

    • Replies: @alexander
  64. mici says:

    It’s not Arabic in fact… Arabs used legacy of one Iranian writing system… Please read this page,, translate it using google translate if you don’t know Persian. Remove the extra spaces and parentheses
    parsianjoman (.) org/?p=112

  65. @renfro

    The zio/US is totally under the control of dual citizen zionists and the mossad and this was before and during and after the attack on the USS Liberty and no one dares call it conspiracy and every POTUS since JFK has been a zionist pawn.

    The proof of this is the joint Israeli and zio/US attack on the WTC where seven WTC buildings were destroyed, not just the 3 that always get mentioned, see and her videos on you tube, and every thinking American knows that Israel and the zio/US government did it, but congress aka the lower house of the knesset is a political whore house and no one has the guts to do a damn thing about it!

    By the way the attack on the USS Liberty was only stopped when a Russian destroyer came on the scene and offered to help the Liberty , if anyone doubts this, do the research it is a fact!

  66. alexander says:
    @Desert Fox

    I thought the Liberty was in position, way before the war began.

    That it was the ‘intelligence vessel”…which…. “knew too much”.

    My mistake , DESERT FOX.


    • Replies: @Desert Fox
  67. slorter says:

    ‘Republican candidates in the 2016 primary election would have these funds available for Trump in 2020 since almost all would prefer Trump over any Democrat.’

    Corporate Democrats would also prefer Trump if a Progressive got up in the Democratic party

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  68. TKK says:

    I went there on a Rick Steves tour.

    It says, in English, every 100 feet in Tehran:


    That’s why it’s silly to debate geopolitics with people who have never actually left the USA.

    Especially when most of you are not smart enough to grasp that the things you post on this website would result in imprisonment and torture in Iran.

    To be seen as an ally of Iran is an American is clinically insane. Ignorant and foolish.

    BTW, Someone having a different opinion is not a troll. Not the sharpest tools in the shed.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    , @turtle
  69. TKK says:
    @Frankie P

    You mean neither do I … not Either.

    Take a beta blocker.

    If someone points out facts regarding anything to do with the Middle East, you low IQ clowns lose your mind.

    I’d bet a buck you’ve never met a Jew.

    FYI- whose can be used as a pronoun in regards to a person.

    In particular, one of whose’s uses is as an interrogative pronoun.

    Good luck “Frankie the Fist”. You are a real gangsta.

    😂 LOL

    • Troll: Twodees Partain
    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  70. @alexander

    Please get and read the book Blood in the Water by Joan Mellen , it is documented from front to back with 49 pages of footnotes and 8 pages of bibliography and 40 interviews of the survivors, and Joan Mellen is a professor emeritas at Temple University and the author of 24 books, and was 4 years in researching and writing this book, it is a book that should be read by every American.

    It is a wonder that she was able to get this book published!

    • Replies: @alexander
  71. alexander says:
    @Desert Fox

    Ron Unz suggests it is a poorly documented, semi-bogus ,”waste of money” screed.

    Which is it ?

    • Replies: @Desert Fox
  72. @AnonFromTN

    I have to disagree. Firstly Rome dealt with Parthia most of the time. Safe first debacle of Marcus Crassus , Romans were handling them rather well. Two defeats by Ventidius Bassus, corbullo, Trajanus almost conquered Parthia but died before finishing campaign, verus and Marcus aurelius.. If my memory serves well Roman’s managed to take Parthia capitals twice. Got to Persian gulf under Trajanus. Things changed a bit in 3d century when Rome suffered decades of non stop civil wars soldiers emperors and arkashid dynasty was replaced by Sasanids who used the mess in Rome, but still they did not get far. In any way, Rome always had the upper hand and eventually it was, Heraclius Eastern Roman emperor who managed to damage Sasanid Persia so much that it did not survive Arab invasion. The matter of fact was that no Roman emperor unless he was talented general to lead campaign himself, could allow to concentrate enough forces for major campaign against Persia to risk the coup from successful general. Another matter was that Rome plainly did not need Persia. Probably few pieces of land here and there mostly Methopotamia. Already Augustus told not to expand any further and his conquests were mostly to ensure strategical depth for Rome most valued possessions. Persia parthia also got lucky twice. First time when julius caesar was murdered a day or two before going for campaign against Parthia and then Dacia. I do not think things would have gone well for them facing Roman army under such general. Second time death of Trajanus saved them as Roman’s overan most of Parthia with capitals taken.

  73. @TKK

    If I knew how to post photos I’d share my favorite — Mom and Dad sitting side-by-side on the bridge over the Zayandeh-Rood. Dad is holding the hand of ~6-year old Junior, who is splashing in the water.

    I also have photos with Bill Frye, at 93, the younger brother of Richard Frye, the highly esteemed scholar of Persian history and culture. Frye’s contributions to recording Iran’s history were so appreciated that the Iranian government built a mausoleum for him on the banks of the Zayandeh-Rood. Bill traveled to Iran with our group to see his brother’s (then) future resting place.

    Bill is fluent in Farsi, so he translated some of the signs at Pasargadae. I took his picture in front of Cyrus’s tomb. Bill and I were booked on the same flight out of Tehran, so we traveled together from the city to the airport and on to Frankfurt. Like his brother, Bill went to Harvard, and both became involved with OSS. The agency wanted Richard to continue with the successor-CIA, but he had had enough and applied his talents in what he thought was a more productive fashion.

    “Every 100 feet . . . ”
    We traveled over 2000 miles in-country, from Tehran to Naishapur to Mashad and Kang, then over the desert to Shiraz and Isfehan, Persepolis, Yazd.
    I guess I should have seen over 100,000 signs that said, Death to America.
    I didn’t.
    What I did see was dozens of faded posters of young men, on doors to residences everywhere from sophisticated Shiraz to a remote shepherd’s village that literally hung from a mountainside. They were the young Iranians killed in Iran’s war with Iraq.

    TKK wrote:

    “That’s why it’s silly to debate geopolitics with people who have never actually left the USA.
    Especially when most of you are not smart enough to grasp that the things you post on this website would result in imprisonment and torture in Iran.
    To be seen as an ally of Iran is an American is clinically insane. Ignorant and foolish.”

    The very week that I traveled to Iran, George Bush had just tightened visa requirements for Iranians, and decreed that every Iranian entering USA had to be fingerprinted.
    Iran reciprocated.
    We were fingerprinted as we worked through passport control. The Iranian guards used office-style stamp-pads, and were embarrassed to be welcoming visitors in such an insulting way. We managed to laugh it off.

    Ignorant and foolish

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @Republic
    , @Mike P
  74. @alexander

    In my opinion , it is a well researched account of an war crime committed by the zio/US and Israel against the USS Liberty and against all patriotic Americans, read the book and judge for yourself.

  75. @anon

    Tehran suspects Israel is being assisted by Moscow | UA Wire | July 25, 2019

    Oh sure! Coming from an Ukrainian website, this “information” cannot be something else than a “True story” about the treacherous Russians.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  76. Anon[168] • Disclaimer says:

    Ask Phil Giraldi.

    He knows the survivors personslly, has met with them & organized events in their honor & memory.

  77. bucky says:

    That is precisely it.

  78. turtle says:

    Suggest you get your facts straight before shooting off your mouth.
    Or perhaps you prefer the NY Times

    I went there on a Rick Steves tour.

    Do you mean you actually went to Iran, or that you watched a YouTube video?
    First ten minutes of this one will let everyone know you are talking through your nether orifice.

  79. @mici

    You may be right, for all I now. I don’t read Arabic. To me their writing is squiggles. I saw a couple of Iranian books and the script looked like the same squiggles to me. Considering that neither Arabic nor Hebrew write vowels (except as little signs underneath), and I saw similar signs underneath presumably Iranian text (I am 100% sure that it wasn’t Koran, it was a pharmacology textbook), I assumed that they use Arabic. I can easily be wrong.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @mici
  80. @Parisian Guy

    You got it right: Ukrainian sites are well known for their truthfulness. I wouldn’t be surprised to read that 2×2=5.5 on a Ukrainian site. What’s more, they would believe it.

  81. @rafael martorell

    “You write as there is no issue in our own economic and political system so our government can dedicate to work for Israel.”

    Who is “our”? Are you saying that you’re American?

  82. @AnonFromTN

    “They lost their writing, though, now they use Arabic.”

    Not exactly. Farsi is the major Persian language and is still in use. The written language uses a modern variant of arabic script. Arabic characters evolved from Aramaic alphabetical characters.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  83. @mici

    “It’s not Arabic in fact” True. I printed out a page in Farsi, thinking it was Arabic, and gave it to a Palestinian friend of mine. He said that he couldn’t read it and asked if it was available in Arabic.

  84. @TKK

    “FYI- whose can be used as a pronoun in regards to a person.

    In particular, one of whose’s uses is as an interrogative pronoun.”

    That isn’t how you used it. You meant “Who’s”, which is a contraction of the phrase “Who is”.

  85. RobinG says:

    As D. Fox says, the war had already begun. However, one theory is that they didn’t want the Liberty tracking the Israeli assault on Syria/Golan.

  86. @Twodees Partain

    I know they speak Farsi. I was just appalled to see Arabic-like script in an Iranian book. Persians had sophisticated culture and empires before Arabs came down from trees.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Twodees Partain
  87. @Ron Unz

    Yet another “theory” concerning the Liberty:

    Israel did it because it wanted to send a message to Johnson — namely, that it held America’s reins and not vice versa. The “accident” spin was merely for public consumption, after Israel’s deliberation could not be concealed by surviving crewmen.

    Consider ’67 as a watershed year, after which any attempt by an American president to assert his authority vis a vis Israel would inevitably meet with failure.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  88. Uncle Sam says:

    I think the balance of power in the Middle East is now in Iran’s favor and by extension Hezbollah and Hamas. Israel is now boxed in; its freedom of action has been greatly curtailed. It cannot start a war with Hezbollah or Iran without suffering terminal damage. America’s only effective weapon against Iran is sanctions, nothing else. It cannot start war with Iran without suffering horrendous losses, such as the loss of the 5th fleet.

    As for the effect of sanctions on Iran, I do not believe all the propaganda about the suffering of the Iranian people. I think it is just that — propaganda. There is nothing that the West can provide that cannot be gotten from Russia or China or some other country that ignores the sanctions regime.

    As for Trump calling back an air raid, I do not believe that such an attack was ever mounted. Where is the proof? From which aircraft carrier(s) or air base(s) did these planes take off? Russian and Chinese satellites would have seen them. Also, the Iranian radars would have picked them up. And if they were any where near Iran they would have been attacked by the Iranian air defenses.

    If any one has any proof that these planes were airborne and were called back, please provide proof. I think it is another lie, just like the 2 Iranian drones that the Americans supposedly shot down.

    America will be and is being forced out of the Middle East. It is just a matter of time before Iran becomes the dominant military power in that area.

    • Replies: @Desert Fox
    , @mici
  89. Ron Unz says:

    Yet another “theory” concerning the Liberty:

    Israel did it because it wanted to send a message to Johnson — namely, that it held America’s reins and not vice versa. The “accident” spin was merely for public consumption, after Israel’s deliberation could not be concealed by surviving crewmen.

    Funny that you should suggest that particular theory…

    I actually came up with the same idea some years ago. Although I’ve never heard it mentioned anywhere else, I discussed it in one of my articles last year:

    It’s obviously quite speculative, but I’d include it among the four or five somewhat overlapping possibilities. It’s certainly far more plausible than the total nuttiness that Joan Mellen woman discusses in her ridiculous book.

  90. @Ron Unz

    Such chutzpah would also help to explain the 9/11 high-fivers, art students appearing at military bases and FBI field offices, the PNAC’s flagrant reference to a “new Pearl Harbor,” unconcealed publication of the “Clean Break” manifesto, and unabashed telephone surveillance of the White House, Pentagon and State Department in the late ’90s (for which nobody was ever held accountable), to name but a few instances.

    The successful murder of JFK appears to have provided the proverbial wind beneath their sails. The Liberty was the coup de grace after which they’ve just kept gaining steam with few signs of slowing.

  91. RobinG says:

    Did Trump Just Threaten to Attack Iran With Nukes?
    He said he could destroy Afghanistan but was signaling elsewhere. The scary part is there’s already a plan.
    By Scott Ritter, July 25, 2019

  92. Anonymous[175] • Disclaimer says:

    The way towards peace is to pose a serious threat to Israel if attacked. You could destroy half of the USA and the Zionists wont blink.

  93. Iris says:

    Persian alphabet is entirely similar in writing and pronunciation to Arabic alphabet, of which it entirely derives. It is actually called Arabo-Persian alphabet.

    There is only a small addition: 4 consonants, which sounds do not exist in Arabic, have been added:
    پ is ” p”
    چ is ” ch” as in chair
    ژ is “jj” an elongated j
    گ is “gu” as in get

    Anybody who reads Arabic can read Persian, although they won’t understand most of what they are reading.
    Although Persian is an Indo-European language, with words sometimes funnily close to English (“baradar” is “brother”), as much as 50% of Persian vocabulary is Arabic.

    • Replies: @mici
    , @AnonFromTN
  94. Iris says:

    Persians had sophisticated culture and empires before Arabs came down from trees.

    I am a great admirer of Persian civilisation, but Mesopotamian (Iraq) and Sumerian (Syria) civilisations by today-Arabs’ ancestors came at least a millenary before the first known (Akkadian) Persian civilisation.

    And as we are talking of alphabet characters, it is undisputed that the first ever alphabet was the Cuneiform system of writing, invented in Sumer, modern-day Iraq.

    I am equally appalled by the gross racism and ignorance often on proud display in this website’s comments.

  95. mici says:

    Hi friend! You are completely right. Modern Persian script is almost the same with what today is mistakenly known as Arabic script; But it was Arabs who used an Iranian writing system to write in Arabic. What i was saying in my previous script was that Arabic script is borrowed from another script which is today mistakenly known as Aramaic alphabet. So first of all it’s not Arabic. It’s also a common mistake that the alphabet is supposed to be Aramaic. Because it was widely used by different languages in ancient Iran, India and even Yunan (Greece). Also Darius the Great in one of his Behistun Inscription knew this script (today mistakenly known as Aramaic) as his own Aryan (Iranian) script.

    King Darius says: “By the grace of Ahuramazda this is the inscription which I have made.Besides, it was in Aryan script, and it was composed on clay tablets and on parchment. Besides, a sculptured figure of myself I made. Besides, I made my lineage. And it was inscribed and was read off before me. Afterwards this inscription I sent off everywhere among the provinces. The people unitedly worked upon it.”

    Summary: It’s not an Arabic script. Arabs simply are today using an Iranian alphabet to write in Arabic

    • LOL: Iris
  96. mici says:

    1- Mr smart anti racist! Both Akkadin and Sumerian civilizations were in Mesopotamia in southern Iraq! Neither in Syria nor Iran!

    2- You probably do not know about Elamites and Jiroft civilizations (older than civilizations in Mesopotamia) of Iran

    3- Mesopotamia itself was based on mixed people of the region including Iran.

    4- There are two theories in regard to the first writing system in Iran. One is about 100 years after the first writing system of Mesopotamia based on Inscription corpus found in Elam. Another refers to the writing system found in “Jiroft civilization” brings it to about 100 years older than the oldest writing system found in Mesopotamia.

    • Replies: @Iris
  97. @Uncle Sam

    Hamas is a mossad front to give the Israelis the excuse to bomb and kill Palestinians.

  98. @RobinG

    In my opinion, the zio/US will never attack Iran with nukes as that would bring Russia in on the side of Iran as Russia knows that if Iran falls Russia is next and although the zio/US and Israel would like to nuke Iran, Russia stands in the way, and thank God for Russia and Putin the only sane ones on the planet.

  99. anonymous[251] • Disclaimer says:

    I am a great admirer of Persian civilisation, but Mesopotamian (Iraq) and Sumerian (Syria) civilisations by today-Arabs’ ancestors came at least a millinery before the first known (Akkadian) Persian civilisation.

    … as we are talking of alphabet characters

    I am equally appalled by the gross racism and ignorance often on proud display in this website’s comments.

    hat trick

  100. @RobinG

    Thx RobinG.

    From Ritter’s report:

    “Trump’s seemingly blasé reference to a hypothetical mass murder on a scope and scale never seen in the history of mankind (it took Nazi Germany more than four years to kill six million Jews) was stunning.”

    stopped reading right thar.

  101. mici says:

    “as much as 50% of Persian vocabulary is Arabic” Not true!
    Also read this comment:

  102. anon[830] • Disclaimer says:

    The 2018 NPR declares that “Preventing the illicit acquisition of a nuclear weapon, nuclear materials, or related technology and expertise by a violent extremist organization is a significant U.S. national security priority.” It notes that the acquisition of nuclear weapons by “rogue states” such as Iran “that possess nuclear weapons or the materials, technology, and knowledge required to make them” increases the likelihood that terrorist organizations will acquire them. “Further,” the NPR notes, “given the nature of terrorist ideologies, we must assume that they would employ a nuclear weapon were they to acquire one.”—

    Think tank exists to provide a description that is uncharted territory for the citizen and most of the lawmakers. These people accept the narrative without questioning or suspecting the deceitfulness of the inserted wording and juxtaposition of hateful innuendo with technical and humanitarian worlds . Those who support it despite them suspecting it and laughing at it are already bribed and pressurized and know which way the money spigot opens .

    Today Guardian (UK) reports on the nurse generated Westminster pedophile circus

    “His false allegations – in which he accused an establishment group of abusing, kidnapping, torturing and murdering boys in the late 1970s and early 1980s – led to a multimillion-pound Scotland Yard inquiry that ended without making a single arrest” and him going to jail for 18 yrs. .

    Poor nurse! He didn’t have the system back -up and capacity to go to Scotland and force Scotland Yard like Cheney did to CIA , 19 intelligence agencies and media , and get Scotland Yard uttering case of ” slam dunk” .

    Poor Guardian doesn’t mention that this guy has no David Arhamovich ,Nick Cohen or Judith Miller or an anti ‘Westminster organization’ like FDD or PNAC .

    Trump expected the money and the media opening up to him in some convoluted way The more he takes care of the worries of the money bag owners ‘s part , more the think tank and media will support him despite them being disgusted with him but will not get disgusted with his actual real crime but be providing him some moments of glory achievement and being presidential . The pall bearers of the Christ will insert enthusiasm . Pompeo has already reminded how he can be Esther . Adelshon’s wife having orgasm and is offering to add “Book of Trump” to the next edition of the Bible.

  103. mici says:
    @Uncle Sam

    I agree with you. Unfortunately in Iran Rouhani once again trusted west. Our problem is not sanctions. The problem is that Rouhani made economy conditional by remving some sanctions temporarily (at least he was trying to do it). But west with leadership of the US betrayed Iran once again. He made everything conditional on the lifting of sanctions! But now that the sanctions are back and Rouhani and his government have less hope for anyhing good from the west, the economy is getting better everyday. I hope Iran will not trust west again.
    Also in regard to that incident , yes, Trump is lying, just like his predecessors.

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  104. To Ron Unz, please go to youtube and watch this video by Steve Pieczenik, Opus 167 mossad Epstein connection.

  105. @Ron Unz

    Yeah yeah, like a punitive action against the US for not showing enough(!) support. Not against Johnson so much as a display for other leaders. Saying “see what we can do and get away with it?” A message that would be lost on the populace at large, but high iq military brass and politicians would take notice.

  106. Iris says:

    So the Fertile Crescent, the birthplace of the earliest Mediterranean and hence global civilisation has now been moved and does not cover Syria, Iraq and the Tigris/Euphrates Valley?

    Where has it been moved exactly? To a gay club in Tel-Aviv?

    • Replies: @mici
  107. @Iris

    A little detail: Sumerians, Elamites, and Ancient Egyptians were not Arabs. They were Semitic peoples related to Arabs pretty much like Finns are related to Indian Brahmins. Arabs at the time were primitive nomads on the Arabian peninsula. BTW, this is not racism, this is realism. It does not mean that Arabs are inherently inferior, it only means that they were about a millennium or two behind those civilizations in their development.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Ron Unz
    , @Sergey Krieger
  108. Iris says:

    A little detail: Sumerians, Elamites, and Ancient Egyptians were not Arabs.

    What do you think happened to the Tigris/Euphrates initial inhabitants? They disappeared and were replaced by Aliens, whom we call today’s “Arabs”?
    Why are today’s Syrians and Iraqis so proud of the Sumer and Babylon heritage? Why did Saddam Hussein try to rebuild Babylon?

    Depriving these ME people of their enormous contribution to world’s civilisation is just staggering and unbelievable racism, a task Zionists supremacists have long carried out and that has culminated with their proxy Daesh destroying antique cities and artefacts.

    Ancient Egyptians, on the other hands, have a different origin: their civilisation stems from Nubia, the Southern part of the Nile, where the pre-Egyptian civilisation started around 8000 BC. They were Black eastern Africans, a truth established in the 1950’s which became UNESCO’s official thesis in the 70’s.

    Finally, “Arabs” are not an ethnic or religious group, but only a linguistic and cultural one. There is no blood links between the “Arabs” in Morocco and those in Saudi Arabia. Just shows how stupid the racists actually are.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Lucius Vanini
  109. Republic says:

    Today it is very easy for citizens of most countries to get an electronic visa for Iran, takes about 24 hours. Independent travel is possible.

    Only Americans and British need to take a tour, which of course makes a visit there much more expensive.

    There is one place in Iran which even Americans can visit without a visa, that is Kish Island.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  110. A123 says:
    @Ron Unz

    There are a number of issues with the various Liberty conspiracy theories. A couple of key points/questions:

    I. There were frigates available to be sent as escort. Navy doctrine would dictate covering the intelligence ship. How did the ship wind up at that location alone?

    –IA. The U.S. is party to the conspiracy. Multiple senior Cabinet and U.S. Navy officials arranged in advance to send out the ship by itself. Difficult. And more importantly, it implies a long lead time.

    –IB. The U.S. is not party to the conspiracy. Sending the unarmed vessel by itself was a local error in either command or communication. Key here is — No one could have known in advance that the ship was going to be sent alone.

    II. Why did Israeli pilots engage the ship? Was it set-up or a local decision?

    –IIA+IA. Both Israel and the U.S. at a senior level planned this conspiracy in advance. With long lead time the pilots would have been pre-selected and well briefed. There would be no tape of Israeli pilots asking for instructions.

    –IIA+IB. This does not appear to be a valid option. With no advance notice and lead time, Israeli senior leadership could not have a pre-arranged response.

    –IIB(1). Israeli pilots located an unidentified or misidentified vessel in a proscribed location and in ‘The Fog of War’ engaged it without additional instructions from HQ. Tragicially, in combat this sort of thing happens. This is very credible as a scenario.

    –IIB(2). Israeli pilots located and positively identified an unarmed U.S. vessel. Would they report the friendly contact back to HQ immediately? This seems unlikely. Assuming they reported the friendly contact, they would carry on with their patrol. Given the short time frame allowed by fighter fuel consumption, could Israeli HQ respond in time to turn the fighters around to engage the friendly? Could HQ count on the Israeli pilots to disregard standing orders and engage the friendly?

    While theoretically possible, this IIB(2) scenario seems implausible. If there was a conspiracy there would be no need to instruct the random group of pilots to attack. Ships are slow, planes are fast. The sighting information would have been used to send a carefully selected group of pilots (see IIA+IA above).


    Bottom line — The primary responsibility for the incident falls on the U.S. Navy. Competent command authority would have had one or more combat escorts accompanying the Liberty. The ship was intentionally or negligently placed in harms way.

    The late release of the ‘alleged’ tape is inherently suspicious. LBJ as a politician survived by blame shifting. Arranging the release of a fabricated or doctored tape to deflect blame was well within his devious but inept capabilities.


    • Troll: renfro, turtle
    • Replies: @A123
  111. Iris says:

    And undoubtedly Israel and its American supporters will continue to believe, or at least pretend to believe, that Israel still faces annihilation unless the United States does more for it.

    This is an accurate and realistic conclusion to this excellent article; the situation keeps developing and it is difficult to rule out a showdown.

    The demands made by the USA on Iran have been summarised by former Assistant Sec. of State Mark Kimmitt on a Syrian talk show. They amount to Iran abandoning their strategic defensive policies: missile programme and “evil” role in the ME. In other terms, Iran must des-arm and abandon its buffer strategic depth so it can be easily destroyed by Israel.

    Cynically, General Kimmitt goes to the extent of promising “a lot of suffering to the Iranian population” if Tehran does not cave in.

    The Iranian speaker, former diplomat Moussavi, highlights that the US’ increased aggressiveness is triggered by Israel, because Israel is now weakened and surrounded by the ME Resistance axis.

    He also alludes that alliances are changing, and that the UAE and even Saudi Arabia are now conscious of the military deadlock in Yemen, and have resumed discussions with Iran.

  112. Ron Unz says:

    A little detail: Sumerians, Elamites, and Ancient Egyptians were not Arabs. They were Semitic peoples related to Arabs pretty much like Finns are related to Indian Brahmins. Arabs at the time were primitive nomads on the Arabian peninsula.

    The first part of what you’re saying is correct, but I think your implication is misleading.

    My strong impression is that the vast majority of the ancestry of today’s “Arabs” is that of the pre-Arabic peoples of the Fertile Crescent, exactly the Sumerians, Elamites, and Egyptians you mention. Basically, the Arab Conquest was much more linguistic, cultural, and religious than genetic. The Arab armies were fairly small and almost entirely male, so the pre-existing people just “became Arabs” over a few generations, partly because Arabic was the language of their new holy book. After all the local populations were huge and certainly weren’t exterminated by the Arabs, so they just stayed around, converted to Islam and started speaking a dialect of Arabic.

    But I’m sure one or two of the knowledgeable Muslims who hang around here can provide a much better picture of what happened back then.

    • Agree: Iris
  113. @Iris

    Why are today’s Syrians and Iraqis so proud of the Sumer and Babylon heritage?

    For the same reason Ukrainians are proud of Russian heritage that emerged centuries before Ukrainians. People have a psychological need to be proud of something. Because of that many countries appropriate other’s achievements as their own.

    BTW, this is also the source of racism and similar things. People who have no personal achievements to be proud of take pride in the color of their skin, their gender, their religion, their presumed ancestry, etc. Looks pitiful and ridiculous, but there it is.

    • Replies: @Iris
  114. mici says:

    This theory is just about a region. Also it does not imply that this is equal with the area of Akkadin or Sumerian civilizations. It also includes different people in different countries including modern Iran! For example eastern part of it in Iranian part of Zagros, agriculture started about 12000 years ago, probably for the first time in the world (arguable; not insisting on it!).

    As i said it’s just a region. The shit you are looking for can’t be found in this image to justify your claims. Unless you brought it from your gay ass.

  115. Iris says:
    @Ron Unz

    the pre-existing people just “became Arabs” over a few generations, partly because Arabic was the language of their new holy book

    This is correct, and reflects the modern definition of “Arab”.

    All those in the ME who chose to retain their Christian faith, or even those in North-Africa their Jewish faith, all became “Arabs” because of the predominant use of Arabic language and the culture it produced.

    The importance of the Quran is linguistic and grammatical, as well as religious. This religious book was also a cultural milestone, because it codified and froze the grammar of Arabic, hence making it a common communication vehicle and vector of science, same as Latin was in Europe.

    Arabs are a linguistic and cultural group, not an ethnic one.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  116. Iris says:

    The Tigris/Euphrates Valley has been called “the Cradle of Civilisation” by Western anthropologists and archaeologists.

    It has been continuously populated, without interruption, for millenaries, by people who never made mass migrations, whose descendants still live there, and who you say have “just fallen from trees”?

    Please don’t lecture me about “racism”.

  117. @Ron Unz

    /But I’m sure one or two of the knowledgeable Muslims who hang around here can provide a much better picture of what happened back then./

    Your summary is accurate and sufficient.

    I’d add that conversion to Islam, while advantageous, was not imposed except in rare periods (e.g. for a brief time during the Fatimid reign) after Arabs had long since ascended to authority in the land.

    • Agree: Ron Unz
  118. Iris says:

    Further contradictory discourses from US administration duly noted by Arab ME media:

    While President Trump has dismissed the importance of the tensions in the Straight of Hormuz, Mike Pompeo on the contrary has called to the creation of an international military force under US control to police the Straight.

    Such initiative would of course impede on Iran’s sovereignty over her territorial waters, and make a conflagration more likely.

    It is now blatant to the Arab public how disjointed American political institutions are, and how powerful the Israeli grip on them has become.

  119. @Republic

    Good to know — but how does one get to Kish Island, via Dubai? And if an American gets to Kish, can they go on to Iran mainland?

    My visa took several weeks to obtain through the Pakistan embassy in DC. I think a similar procedure applies today (my travel was about 10 yrs. ago), but it’s even more expensive.

    I haven’t been to the Caspian region, very much wish to see Ardebil, and the region where tea is grown.

    I saw the vast areas around Qom (and also near Bushehr) where Iranians have “greened the desert,” using a combination of wind farms and power generated by the nuclear station at Bushehr to drive irrigation systems. Thousands of pine trees have been planted in the region, in an effort to cool the desert and prepare it for habitation and development in the future. A quarter-mile’s depth of bushes and shrubbery lines the wide highways; the greenery serves to keep the desert sand from blowing over the roads, and the irrigation systems powered by the massive wind farms keeps the irrigation dynamo working. I assume the water source is underground, heirs to qanat irrigation. **

    Around Qom, rivers (or some other water source — my memory is a bit foggy) were diverted to irrigate fields, where cash crops were planted / harvested. The project was controversial since wealthier persons were able to undertake the project that disadvantaged poorer folks.

    On the other side of Iran (and once again working from foggy memory), US Army Corps of Engineers is diverting rivers between Iran and Afghanistan, with the effect of destroying cropland in Iran in favor of projects in Afghanistan.

    ** Pertinent to the Arab vs. Persia conversation: interesting passage here:
    The Rise of Islam
    edited by Vesta Sarkhosh Curtis, Sarah Stewart

    “In his substantial work, Les Nations du Prophete, de Planhol [1993] motes the singularity of the Iranians in coping with Arab and Turkish domination. He seeks the reason for the continued survival of Iran as a distinct culture in its system of agriculture. . . . the survival of Iranian cultural identity resulted from the technically advanced qanat system, which allowed for the distribution of water through subterranean canals over long distances. The system gave a remarkable stability to Persian life based on agriculture. . . .stability which was also reflected in Persian culture [and] continued during the repeated nomadic invasions of Iran, enabling the country to absorb and educate the nomads in the ways of Persian life and culture.”

    I suppose Sherman’s destruction of the South was not a new tactic, but it still resonates in the inability of the U S South to recover its pre-Unpleasantness status as a region where the highest qualities of culture, learning and literacy prevailed. What’s even worse is US & its allies applied Scorched Earth to Allied war(s) ever since, and look on starving other people’s children as a “worthwhile price.”

    According to de Planhol’s relatively recent work, Iran was able to not only dodge that bullet (although, as Mohammed Gholi Majd has recorded, Iran did suffer a major famine during WWI, a result of British occupation policies) but to use its unique system of irrigation to civilize invaders. It also seems that the qanat system is more than just an procedure for obtaining and distributing water, it is a cultural characteristic of the Iranian people. Iran’s geography is tremendously challenging, with vast deserts and formidable mountains. Iranians seem to have internalized the reality that survival depended on turning those challenges into benefits. It became a weltanschauung. It is despicable what US and its zionist masters are doing to Iran, but I suspect — I hope, I pray to the god and to Mary Mother of Creation –that millennia of meeting such challenges has created of Iran a survivability quotient that not even the most ardent SJW with a “RESIST” bumper sticker on her late-model luxury SUV can equal.

  120. Mike P says:

    If I knew how to post photos

    You need to put them somewhere else on the web, then link to them. I post mine to – simply upload your image, then copy the URL labeled with “direct link”

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  121. @mike k

    Not a single mention of Russia or China’s silk road project? The author draws a very incomplete picture.

    Very true, but typical of western writers. It is almost as though they read nothing coming out of China but rely exclusively on western sources. I see e.g. many articles about Electric Cars which fail to mention the one Chinese company that makes half the world’s output of electric vehicles! It is no wonder that they keep getting surprised!

  122. @Iris

    Are you saying Farsi = Arabic?

    If so, then is “Indo-European” meaningless?

    The Indo-European languages are a language family of several hundred related languages and dialects.. . . There are about 445 living Indo-European languages, according to the estimate by Ethnologue, with over two thirds (313) of them belonging to the Indo-Iranian branch. The Indo-European languages with the greatest numbers of native speakers are Spanish, English, Hindustani (Hindi/Urdu), Portuguese, Bengali, Punjabi, and Russian, each with over 100 million speakers, with German, French, Marathi, Italian, and Persian also having more than 50 million. Today, 46% of the world’s population (3.2 billion) speaks an Indo-European language as a first language, by far the highest of any language family.

    Sad, deluded Hitler with all his ranting about Aryans.
    He was an Arabist all along.

    Say, I wonder how one says

    Beglückt darf nun dich, o Heimat, ich schauen,
    und grüßen froh deine lieblichen Auen;

    in Arabic.
    And turns deserts into “green meadows.”

    • Replies: @mici
  123. @Ron Unz

    You are likely right. I wish someone did good genetic analysis of the population of different Arab countries and compared that to the genetics of ancient Egyptians, Sumerians, Persians, Elamites, etc. They can analyze Y-chromosomes that is inherited strictly via males and mitochondrial DNA that only comes from females. Like Chinese analyzed Y-chromosomes of huge numbers of people and found that ~1 million “Han Chinese” males carry the Y-chromosome of Genghis Khan.

    I am not aware of any such analysis in the ME. If you know of any, please provide link(s).

  124. A123 says:

    Renfro & Turtle,

    How is asking Mr. Unz serious questions “Trolling”? The tape is a problem, not proof.

    If true, it points to poor decision making by the most junior echelon of Israeli command authority. Not a conspiracy at the senior levels of multiple governments.

    If untrue it points to intentional, after the fact, deception by LBJ. Given LBJ’s known deceptive track record on Vietnam, why do you think suspicion of him on this matter is unwarranted?


  125. Iris says:

    Hello SolontoCresus;

    No, not saying that Farsi is Arabic.

    Farsi indeed belongs to the Indo-European family of languages, but has borrowed vast vocabulary from Arabic. It isn’t uncommon: I think English, an Anglo-Saxon language, has as much as 50% Latin vocabulary too.
    I know it’s true, because us native French speakers intuitively and easily guess the meaning of many English words new to us.

    Your use of the word “Qanat” made me smile. “قنات “, “Qanat”, is a pure Arabic word meaning “Canal” (of water), channel (including TV channel 🙂 🙂 ).

    Here is a proposed translation of the Wagner extract to Arabic (wonderful music BTW).

    يا وطني، سعيد الآن ، أستطيع أن أنظر إلى مروجك الخضراء

    وأحيها بعمق الصرور

    Ya Watani, Sa’id al an, Astati’ an andhura ila murudjika al khadra’a
    Wa uhayiha bi ‘umki as surur)

    I hope you get to go back to Iran. I would like to visit one day, too. I have wonderful friends who originate from Shiraz and keep inviting me to holiday with them. It looks magnificent. With kind regards.

    • Replies: @mici
  126. Iris says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    You look cute in your cheerleader micro-skirt.

    Next time, don’t forget to bring a rational argument as well.

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
  127. alexander says:

    This is a very interesting comment, A123 .

    Thank you.

    It is my understanding that the USA is not only a signatory to the UN Charter, but one of its founding and permanent members.

    it is also my understanding that the UN charter was ratified by all the world powers .

    Is this not correct ?

    My question to you is to what extent the UN charter, its mission and its by-laws function as a “treaty”?

    A treaty to which the USA , as well as all its members, is a party to ?

    • Replies: @A123
  128. @Mike P

    Thanks Mike P.

    this is a test —
    Fran Taubman might recognize it

    Hey, It works!
    Thanks again.

  129. mici says:

    Seriously what is your enmity towards Persian language? I have heard gays are stubborn but not that intense. lol

    First you said “Qanat” is a pure Arabic word and then rejected it after you connected it to the indo-european word “Channel”! Qanat is arabized form of the Persian word “kandan”, meaning “digging up” or the indo-european word “kanal”. There are a huge number of Persian Arabized words being used by both Arabs and Persian. Seriously It’s not as easy as what you think.

    One of the great works in this context is «الالفاظ الفارسیه المعرب» (Persian Arabized words), a book written by Iraqi linguist, «السید ادی شیر اثوری» (Adi Shir Athuri), 1908. In this book in addition to introducing and interpreting many of these words, He also states that Arabic langauge is “filled up” with Persian words and these words have been transformed in a way that recognition of their roots is among the most difficult etymology researches.

    So I hope you understand that you are not qualified to talk about it. Brother I like your politic comments but your knowledge about Persian and Arabic languages is really low. Also sorry for any impolite 🙂

    • Replies: @Iris
  130. mici says:

    Hi friend…

    Persian also having more than 50 million

    Outdated info… Iran alone has 80 million Persian speakers. Either as mother language (more than 50 million) or their second language. Now add these to Persian speaking people of other countries like Afghanistan and Tajikistan.

  131. Iris says:

    Why exactly are you so obsessed with gays?

    Is that you, FB?

  132. @Iris

    Micro skirt is rational arguement? I tend to wear pants actually. I find TN anon arguement rather logical and backed by historical reality. Btw, can Turks claim and be proud of the achievements by Ionic and other Greeks? Asia minor used to be heavily populated by Greeks if I remember correctly.

  133. Our country is a global hegemony, partly by choice and mostly by MIC. We are a gangster nation beholden to no international laws or norms of civilized behavior. We are the world’s true barbarians shamelessly launching “humanitarian” wars and ostensibly promoting “democracy” and “human rights” — all for Israel who can spy on us and not a whimper from us.

  134. A123 says:

    It is my understanding that the USA is not only a signatory to the U.N. Charter, but one of its founding and permanent members. … it is also my understanding that the U.N. charter was ratified by all the world powers .

    The U.S. signed the U.N. charter. However, there was no U.S. Constitutional amendment to transfer constitutional powers to the U.N.

    “All the world powers” is a bit of an overstatement, but yes many countries also signed on to participate to the extent their governing documents allow.

    I am unaware of any nation modifying its governing documents to transfer reserved legislative, executive, or judicial powers to the U.N. Thus the U.S. is not alone, every signatory nation has limits on subordination of national powers to the mostly theoretical, supranational power of the U.N.

    My question to you is to what extent the U.N. charter, its mission and its by-laws function as a “treaty”? A treaty to which the USA , as well as all its members, is a party to ?

    The short answer is, “As a practical matter — the U.N. does not function”. It was broken before the first signature pen touched paper and remains broken to this day. Let me illustrate.

    Well crafted treaties include their own enforcement provisions. For example, trade treaties specifically govern how complaints are to be brought and the composition of the body that will hear them. The maximum penalty is also spelled out in the treaty in terms of limits on amount of goods transferred, additional tarrifs, etc. in the event of a breach. Well crafted treaties also include exit provisions, so they can be cleanly ended when underlying assumptions are no longer valid.

    The U.N. charter by comparison is poorly drafted. There is very little in the way of “due process” if a breach accusation is made. And, no pre-agreed power to impose consequences for a breach when one is found. It can use the ‘power of the purse’ to discipline recipient countries, but has no tools to sanction powerful donor nations. As a consequence, the result of a declared breach of conduct is usually a desperate plea and emotionally charged grandstanding for individual nations to take up enforcement on behalf of the U.N. Of course, each nation’s response is restricted by its own structure and internal politics on how to decide & what actions to take.

    The result is an inherently unsatisfying, dysfunctional mess:
    — As a theoretical matter, the U.N. Charter is supposed to function as a treaty.
    — As a practical matter, the documents do not contain the specifics and binding authority necessary for it to function as a treaty. Ignoring a U.N. directive results in the charter specified enforcement of… Let’s be honest… No consequences.

    Over its 70+ year history every major power and quite a number of minor powers have ignored the U.N. multiple times. At this point, almost everyone understands that the U.N. wields minimal authority and has no practical power.


  135. alexander says:

    Thank you for your thoughtful and informative response.

    Figuring this stuff out should not be rocket science.

    In the aftermath of WWII, where nearly the entire world annihilated itself, the UN Charter was formed to ensure such an unmitigated catastrophe would never happen again .

    Right ?

    The most important of the laws within the charter, was the banning of “war of aggression”, and the banning of the acquisition of territory through force.

    Right ?

    The USA is both a founding and permanent member of the United Nations as well as a signatory to the UN charter.

    The charter was “ratified” by all the world powers, in 1945.

    Which means the UN Charter is a “treaty “, not just a “club house rule book”.

    Right ?

    I believe Article VI of our Constitution states , in no uncertain terms, that. “.all treaties made, or which shall be made….” are the “supreme” laws of the land.

    Correct ?

    So the UN Charter is not “theoretically” a treaty…it is, in fact , a “real” treaty to which our nation is bound.

    And our binding to it, is recognized by our own constitution, as among the “Supreme laws of the land.”

    Let us Flash back to the run up to the Iraq War of 2003.

    There was never any authorization for the use of force rendered in the Security Council.

    This means that when all Americans were deceived by our ruling elites into launching the catastrophic Iraq war of 2003, it was, for all intents and purposes , a war of aggression.

    Which is a “supreme crime” not only under the UN charter , but under article VI of our own constitution.

    (may I add) It has become painfully clear to me, over the years, that every pretext sold to the American people to commit us to that war , from the “imminent threat of WMD’s”,to ” the Yellow Cake from Niger”, to ” Saddam’s anthrax in Tom brokaws’ office”, etc…were complete LIES.

    That, in fact, the American people were defrauded into committing the supreme crime of war of aggression.

    Why is that okay ?

    Where is the accountability ?

    And , moreover, why should I, or any of the other 328 million Americans , be forced to pay for the cost of a war we were all LIED INTO ?

    Shouldn’t the LIARS pay ?

    Why should Americans be on the hook for 22 trillion dollars of heinous debt because were defrauded into illegal war ?

    Shouldn’t all that money come right out of the pockets of the defrauders…first ?

    Why should American taxpayers be forced to carry the burden of the cost of THEIR DECEPTIONS ?

    Maybe we should ask Quinnipiac or CNN to take a “national poll”..

    ” If you were deceived into illegal war by a group of billionaires…who should be stuck with the bill….You ?… or the billionaires who deceived you ?”

    I wonder what “the people” will say ?

    As a matter of fact, I wonder what a jury would say ?

    Don’t you ?

    • Replies: @A123
    , @renfro
  136. @Iris

    I am equally appalled by the gross racism and ignorance often on proud display in this website’s comments.


  137. @mici

    I hope Iran will not trust west again.

    1. The only way to deal with an American politician is to assume he’s lying. I hope the American people learn that as well, but I’m not holding my breath.

    Also in regard to that incident , yes, Trump is lying, just like his predecessors.

    See # 1. above.

    • Replies: @mici
  138. MLK says:

    Iran in 2019 is no danger to U.S. interests anywhere

    What nonsense. The U.S. has the broadest and deepest geopolitical interests on the planet. These extend, effectively, to the interests of our allies. That’s what geopolitics is!

    Iran didn’t expect to have to contend with a real POTUS. It’s in competition with China for the biggest
    loser for relying on The Resistance to remove Trump from office. It cannot survive another two years of his maximum economic pressure campaign, much less six.

    It’s quite a thing for a foreign power/leader to have to contend with a powerful POTUS. Whether on trade or the disastrous JCPOA giveaway, so much the better to deal with a figurehead like Obama.

    The salient questions are the following:

    Who has leverage vis-à-vis U.S./Iran? I don’t think the EU is at all consequential so we’re really talking about China, Turkey and Russia, in ascending order. None are in a position to really help Iran in that the POTUS has “all the time in the world,” as he frequently says. What that means is that he’s fine with these powers financially propping up Iran and expending their geopolitical capital bilaterally with the U.S. if that’s how they want to spend it.

    The Iranians are well aware of the limits they are willing to go on behalf of the Islamic Republic of Iran. All three are negotiating to one degree or another with the POTUS, do you think they’re going to the mat for Iran refusing to do so? Nope, while I expect a bit more foot-stomping and generalized belly-aching, eventually Iran will open negotiations (effectively) on Pompeo’s bill of particulars.

    Then the Iranians can decide how important it is from them to continue to be a troublemaker in the Middle East.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Rev. Spooner
  139. @AnonFromTN

    Writing systems evolve as spoken languages do, over time and according to various kinds of relations among peoples. Arab culture devolved, after the arrival of islam, into what we see today.

  140. @Iris

    “And as we are talking of alphabet characters, it is undisputed that the first ever alphabet was the Cuneiform system of writing, invented in Sumer, modern-day Iraq.”

    Not really. Cuneiform is viewed by some academics as the earliest known system of writing, rather than “the first ever”. Academics are in dispute over everything, all the time.

  141. Iris says:

    Spoken like a true racist supremacist Zionist.

    • Replies: @MLK
    , @mici
  142. Brothers and sisters of epstien, dershowitzm, maxwell will find that they have bitten more than they can chew and this has been their curse through the ages.
    The boot has been applied numerous times in Europe and Americans will apply it when they wakeup from their fast food slumber.
    So far they have been threatening one and all by caressing their guns while their president is going down repeatedly on Benjamin Nethanou.
    Never trust a leader who sucks another leader’s dick.

  143. @MLK

    epstien, dershowitzm, maxwell are all jews and will find that they have bitten more than they can chew and this has been their curse through the ages.
    The boot has been applied numerous times in Europe and Americans will apply it sharply when they wakeup from their fast food slumber. Awake- they will.
    So far the the pudgies have been threatening one and all by caressing their guns and turning a blind eye to their president who is going down repeatedly on Benjamin Nethanou.
    Never trust a leader who sucks another leader’s dick.

    • Replies: @MLK
    , @mici
  144. MLK says:

    You better sit down.

    • Replies: @anon
  145. MLK says:
    @Rev. Spooner

    You seem to be lacking in self-awareness as to what message you’re telegraphing by ideating homosexuality like this.

  146. anon[251] • Disclaimer says:

    One more Democrat fellating the circumsized donkey

    “How do you convene the world . . . by convening the world . . . militaries can stop aggression, like we did stop Germany, but we didn’t solve the problem w/ military, we used MacArthur Plan.”

    Ya, shithead Sestak, MacArthur after US had led the world imposing Morgenthau plan to kill another several million Germans.

    How can you believe a politician who lies so facilely?

  147. anon[251] • Disclaimer says:

    how stupid do you think we are?

    this vid is for Israeli domestic consumption.

    “It was **carried out** in Alaska” because Israelis would know if it had been carried out in Israel.

    Ben Nitay has spent a lifetime pumping out BS — it comes natural to him.
    Do. you suppose the feces he consumes on a daily basis is kosher?

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @MLK
  148. Iris says:

    Ben Nitay has spent a lifetime pumping out BS

    The psychopath needs to win the September 2019 Israeli election, does he not?

    Another “prowess” a la Apollo 11; the Russians must be quaking in their boots.

  149. MLK says:

    how stupid do you think we are?

    Do you really want me to answer that question?

  150. A123 says:

    Figuring this stuff out should not be rocket science. … In the aftermath of WWII, where nearly the entire world annihilated itself, the UN Charter was formed to ensure such an unmitigated catastrophe would never happen again .

    It is not rocket science…. It is Politics 101. Politicians frequently say one thing and do another.

    They *claimed* they were creating a body of virtue empowered to prevent such things. However, what they *actually* created was an intentionally ineffective body that medium and and large nations could ignore.

    So the UN Charter is not “theoretically” a treaty…it is, in fact , a “real” treaty to which our nation is bound.

    Alas, the U.N. Charter is missing components needed in a viable treaty.
    –If there is an allegation that a party has breached, what is the “due process” to investigate and come to a finding?
    –If there is a finding, what penalty applies?
    –How will that penalty be enforced?

    The Senate failed horribly when it ratified a document that did not meet the minimum standards to be a treaty.

    Here is a thought experiment for you — If the Senate ratified a copy of the Yellow Pages, would the Yellow Pages then be a Treaty?
    — If yes, how would it function?
    — If not, what is the test to determine if a Senate ratified document is, or is not, a treaty?

    And our binding to it, is recognized by our own constitution, as among the “Supreme laws of the land.”

    The U.S. government, especially the judiciary, routinely violates the 2nd and 10th Amendments in the Bill of Rights.

    Do you really expect the U.N. Charter to receive *better* treatment than the Bill of Rights? If so, I humbly suggest that you have set your expectations far too high.


  151. Bronek [AKA "bruno"] says:

    I always enjoy Dr. Sniegoski’s info on the Middle East. This is another excellent article.

    The transnational Zydowski circus is truly amazing. Notice how Congresswomen Omar has been getting billion of dollars worth of coverage.

    Enjoyed Dr. Stephen’s take on Trump’s dilemma. How true.

    It’ll be more than fascinating to see Trump try to work around the masters of the Deep State and those paying homage to TelAviv and American members of the Zyd nationhood. Sniegoski deserves a lot of credit.

  152. renfro says:

    Shouldn’t the LIARS pay ?

    Shouldn’t they hang ?

    • Agree: Desert Fox
    • Replies: @turtle
  153. mici says:

    Lol.. yes friend… But I think he was a little right.. Iran has always been a danger to illegitimate interests of the U.S..

    It also seems that our child has a dream! He is dreaming that his country or his president can harm Iran!!
    The U.S.! A dog that we have already pulled out its teeth. Now it can only bark! AND if it keep making extra noise, we will make a scarf with its tail and wrap it around its neck and will hang it to be another lesson for anyone that has devilish intentions against the great IRAN. (Anti-imperialism part of Americans please forgive me for my tone!)

  154. turtle says:

    Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord.
    I shall repay.*

    *I understand this to mean. in blood, with interest.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @renfro
  155. anon[251] • Disclaimer says:

    >>Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord.
    I shall repay.<<

    but The Lord needs the hands of men to do his work.

    • Agree: turtle
  156. @KLM

    Yes. Watch for a Jewish/Israeli pivot towards India.

  157. @TKK

    This forum needs a “shit-for-brains” button for people like you.

  158. @gotmituns

    Credit where it’s due, no question.

  159. @alexander

    Yes, it does. A related theory is that the Israelis were rapidly pressing their advantage and didn’t want to risk the US calling for a ceasefire with the information until the land grab was complete.

  160. @slorter

    Yes. It certainly wouldn’t be the first time in American political history where Party leadership subverts their own firebrands:

  161. anon[886] • Disclaimer says:

    Here is a Jew interprets ancient Bible to suit the current Jewish needs .

    Fact of the matter is this – despite existence of these psalms and related and unrelated meanings in 70 AD by which time Bible has seen majority of its work fine, hatred of Jewish has been tearing apart the Christian movement from the Jewish religion and sometimes in the same synagogue . Jewish came to be seen as ‘un’ Jew for refusing new ideas and new morality . The ‘ old’ Jews were seen as fallen , as victim of moral degeneration from devotion to old Sandhedrin and Pharisee practices, from usuary , from incrst , from selective application of morality and from love for money .

    Your claim of the inseparable nature of the Jewish theological hold on Christian is like referring to justice ,rule of law ,socialism or democracy or freedom of expression as western values and then use that positions against democratic countries in the world who fight against the exploitation ,injustice ,decomposition and degradation of western countries .

  162. Jett Rucker says: • Website

    (US aid to) Israel delenda est.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  163. Peadar says:

    That’s a very interesting point. It’s hard to verify. The reduction in American popular support for Israel might also be the result of a variety of factors. The growth of the internet has meant that people have access to news that is not as controlled. The Iraq war obviously sickened people in the US and abroad and the widespread suspicions that World Trade Centre was destroyed by someone other than Arab terrorists (i.e. Israel and Israeli controlled Americans). Also, pro-Israel politicians pushing for a war against Iran. It all adds up.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  164. anon[886] • Disclaimer says:

    “Richard Spencer and three others, the question discussed was why Trump has not yet attacked Iran. One possibility raised was that, due to massive immigration of brown people from the Thrid World, w”

    Spacer is trying to say to Jews
    :” please help us stop immigration and will quench the thirst and propitiate your thirsty active shooter murderer god on the loose . Please help us “
    A sick man is trying to engage devil 👿.
    A sick mad has forgot that giving Balfour didn’t save them – the British . A sick man is forgetting that the millions of Jews who benefited so much from America and has saved so many of their ilk , still have stabbed the Americans repeatedly .

  165. @Peadar

    Eventually even clueless Americans can connect the dots. As already mentioned, the increasing browning of the official left wing party in the US and the inevitable rise of white political consciousness probably spells the end of America as a Zionist host.

    • Replies: @Insouciant
    , @anon
  166. @Beefcake the Mighty

    “Eventually even clueless Americans can connect the dots.”

    The British may becoming more and more “clueless.”

    Recent debate in Britain —

    Anti-Zionism is Anti-Semitism

    Major points:
    1. There appeared to be many Muslims in the audience
    2. It seemed the only card the “Pro” team had to play was Holocaustism, and that trope was supported by blatant falsehoods
    3. BEGINNING vote: 15% FOR, 59% AGAINST 26% UNDECIDED
    FINAL vote: 19% FOR, 76% AGAINST 5% UNDECIDED

    (Also wish to point out that the introductory material and statement said,
    “Studies consistently show Israel to be one of the most disliked nations in the world (along with Iran and North Korea).
    WHEN YOU CONSIDER that Israel carries on massive campaigns to burnish its image, while Israel as well as other nations (USA) carry on massive campaigns to demonize Iran and North Korea, well — doesn’t that sort of put Israel in a category all its own?)

    1. Muslim migration to Britain is diluting Jewish power
    2. Holocaustism is losing its impact
    3. Jews do not have good arguments for themselves or for Israel; based on this debate, they have only 100-year old, shopworn lies and myths.
    Fewer people are buying these lies.

    Three of the four debaters were Jewish.
    Melanie Phillips was Melanie Phillips. She substituted rage and attempt to induce guilt for convincing arguments and definitions. The picture she painted of Jewish people was not appealing.

    Einat Wilf, former member of Knesset — her argument was the most groan-inducing..
    She opened with:

    “So. We seem to all agree that antisemitism is bad. Of course, educated, knowledgeable people are unlikely to be seduced by it because we know where it leads: Nazism, Auschwitz, and the gas chambers.”

    First of all, why should everyone “agree” that “antisemitism is bad?”
    Because Jews say so?
    Is there some law of nature that gives Jews special rights, special demands that the rest of the world not regard them negatively, or neutrally, or not at all?
    As for the wildly a-historical pronouncement that “antisemitism led to gas chambers,” — if the implication is that Jews were deliberately killed in gas chambers, that has been debunked, by prominent Jewish scholars.
    Why bother listening to claims based on a lie? Why bother listening to anything else Wilf had to say if that is the most informed statement she can make in support of the Jewish state?

    Ilan Pappe (also Jewish) made the most measured and rational, and compassionate arguments, based on universal human rights.

    Mehdi Hasan was bold, flamboyant, and ultimately persuasive.

    Jews. Need. a New. Brand.

    The old brand is falling apart; its bald-faced falsity is apparent to ever more people.

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
    • Replies: @Miro23
  167. anon[283] • Disclaimer says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Saud’s social media feed is littered with pro-Israel, pro-Netanyahu tweets and his Twitter bio features ‘Only Bibi’, a reference to the Israeli prime minister, in Hebrew.

    In a recent interview with Israeli army radio the Saudi blogger said “Israeli people are similar to mine, they are like my family”.

    He also posed for a photo with far-right Israeli activist Yehuda Glick, who is part of a movement advocating the destruction of Al-Aqsa Mosque and its replacement with a Jewish Temple.

    Israel is trying to create an evangelical equivalent among Sunni .

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  168. @anon

    The Israeli-Saudi alliance is an open secret in the ME. Whether or not the royal family are crypto-Jews, Zionist and Saudi interests are very aligned.

  169. @Iris

    Iris, when I saw your pronouncements on the ancient Egyptians, I thought I’d been taken to a negrocentric pseudoscience page. There was an element of black Africanness in Egypt, but modern science has established that the Egyptians clustered with West Eurasians and not with “inner” Africans. And y’know, you say UNESCO embraced the “truth” that Egypt was black, but, as Muhammad Jamal al-Din Muktar wrote, “…. at the 1974 UNESCO Symposium at Cairo, on ‘The Peopling of Ancient Egypt,’ the Black Hypothesis [Black Egypt] met with profound disagreement.”

    In any case, Predynastic Cultures of Egypt, like the Merimde and the Buto Maadi, had links to the LEVANT, the Near East, West Eurasia rather than to Nubia.

    Not surprisingly, Brace et al, 1993 (CLINES & CLUSTERS VS. RACE) found “The Predynastic of Upper Egypt and the Late Dynastic of Lower Egypt are more closely related to each other than to any other population. As a whole, they show ties with the EUROPEAN NEOLITHIC, NORTH AFRICA, MODERN EUROPE , and, more remotely, India, BUT NOT AT ALL WITH SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA….” (My emphasis.)

    More Brace: “Whatever else once can say about the Egyptians, it is clear that their cranio-facial morphology HAS NOTHING WHATSOEVER IN COMMON WITH SUB-SAHARAN AFRICANS. OUR DATA, THEN, PROVIDE NO SUPPORT FOR THE CLAIM THAT THERE WAS A ‘STRONG NEGROID ELEMENT’ IN PREDYNASTIC EGYPT.” (My emphasis.)

    Titlbachova & Titlbach, 1977 (“Hair of Egyptian Mummies”) found through microscopic analysis of hair samples that the Egyptians concerned had hair characteristic of modern Eurasians, not that of inner Africans.

    JD Irish, 1998 and 2006, found that ancient Egyptian dentition, teeth, clustered with those of “Caucasoids,” who have small teeth in contrast to the large, megadont teeth of black Africans, of whom the Nubians were a type.

    And the most ambitious genetic study yet concerning the Egyptians, Kraus et al, 2017, concluded: “We find that the ancient Egyptians are most closely related to NEOLITHIC AND BRONZE AGE SAMPLES IN THE LEVANT, AS WELL AS TO NEOLITHIC ANATOLIAN (referring to Anatolia and therefore also Near Eastern) AND EUROPEAN POPULATIONS.” (Emphasis mine.)

    In fact, the study, which included genome-wide samples, found that we Europeans are more closely related to the ancient Egyptians than the modern Egyptians are, OWING TO THE BLACK ELEMENT THAT CAME TO EGYPT IN MEDIEVAL TIMES WITH THE TRANS-SAHARAN SLAVE TRADE. “….we find that the ancient Egyptians are more closely related to all the modern and ancient European populations that we tested, likely due to the additional African component in the modern [Egyptian] population….”

    This means that modern Egypt–which is itself largely West Eurasian in lineage–is more “black” than the ancient Egypt which negrocentrics love to think of as “Black Egypt.”

    I hope you aren’t one the myriad people who imagine that AFRICAN is synonymous with BLACK (a root cause of all the silliness about Egypt, Carthage, the Moors). Africa is not a race but a continent–one that’s been very diverse for many millennia. And there is no solider fact of history than the great demographic divergence of Mediterranean Africa from more southerly parts of the continent. The populations of Med Africa have been overwhelmingly of West Eurasian lineage.

    P.S. Your throwing the word RACIST around is not likely to move or impress anyone here. We’re too intelligent here–despite what you seem to think–to be caught by labels and smears designed to manipulate the Pavlovian dogs known as the public at large…. Moreover, I don’t think you know much about “racism,” which isn’t necessarily the same as racial bigotry and can proceed from love as easily as from hate.

    • Replies: @Miro23
  170. Iris says:

    @Lucius Vanini

    We’re too intelligent here–despite what you seem to think–to be caught by labels

    Aw, your feelings of belonging (“We” versus “Iris”) are very touching, considering you have only 3 comments on your UR account. Have we had this conversation before on the G. Durocher article?

    You can refer to my comments there:
    – Ancient Egypt’s civilisation started at Nabta near Nubia (today’s Sudan) around 10,000 BC, then only moved North.
    – Ancient Egyptians pictured themselves Black with braided hair, including their most famous Pharaohs (Tutankhamun).
    – The mural illustrating their sacred “Book of Gates”, found in Pharaoh Sethi 1st’s tomb even describes the 4 “races” known to them, and pictures them “dark brown” against their “white” Lybian neighbours…etc, etc, etc…

    Your throwing the word RACIST around is not likely to move or impress anyone here.

    For what I care..
    The ones trying to impress others by their alleged intellectual and cultural superiority are precisely the racists. Personally, I am a “White” who is comfortable thinking that any “Black” person can be potentially more intelligent and more cultured than me.
    Who is self-deluded and insecure, you or me?

    • Replies: @Lucius Vanini
  171. @Jett Rucker

    As a US taxpayer, I’d vote for it with both hands. I am sure if the US held a national referendum (which it never held in all of its history), this measure would have gotten ~70% of the votes. Problem is, in the “democracy” the elites do not give a hoot about what the people think.

  172. Miro23 says:

    Jews. Need. a New. Brand.

    The old brand is falling apart; its bald-faced falsity is apparent to ever more people.

    Agreed that it’s falling apart on various fronts.

    – It’s difficult to play the part of an “oppressed minority” when you hold so much power.

    – It’s difficult to push the “White Privilege” story when the reality is Jewish Privilege.

    – The fashion leftist, protest Hippies are now in power. Problem being that they aren’t going to allow any protest (AKA “hate speech”).

    – Their media worship of Blacks is obviously false. Black society is seriously dysfunctional and they encourage it. Respectable Blacks are “Uncle Toms”.

    – Heroic little Israel of the 1960’s is turning into an intolerant, orthodox and murderous place.

    – Even the stupidest Americans wonder why they are fighting (and paying for) trillion dollar ME wars.

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
  173. Miro23 says:
    @Lucius Vanini

    Moreover, I don’t think you know much about “racism,” which isn’t necessarily the same as racial bigotry and can proceed from love as easily as from hate.

    Agreed. Altogether an excellent comment.

  174. @Iris

    Wow, you certainly are easily hurt. aren’t you! Well, no surprise, as “anti-racist” (code word for anti-white) critters are a pathetic lot; and if they’re white they invariably have a yellow streak down their backs wider than the Mississippi.

    It no doubt adds to your upset that your UNESCO bluff was detected. The UNESCO Symposium was a disaster for the purveyors of absurd “Black Egypt”–as has been anthropology since then (1974).

    Lol, Merimde Culture and Buto Maadi Culture were in LOWER Egypt, not Upper, nearer Nubia. And THEY had links to West Eurasia, specifically the Near East, not “inner” Africa.

    And I don’t care how far south some elements of Egyptian civilization arose: the fact of the matter is as Loring Brace states: “The Predynastic of UPPER Egypt and the Late Dynastic of Lower Egypt are more closely related to each other than to any other population. As a whole, they show ties with the EUROPEAN NEOLITHIC, NORTH AFRICA, MODERN EUROPE….BUT NOT AT ALL WITH SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA.” (Emphasis mine.) Of course, Upper Egypt is as far south as one goes in Egypt.

    And you say the Egyptians portrayed themselves as black? What does Simson Najovits write in EGYPT, TRUNK OF THE TREE, A MODERN SURVEY OF AN ANCIENT LAND? This: “Egyptian art depicted Egyptians on one hand and NUBIANS and other blacks on the other hand with distinctly different ethnic characteristics and depicted this abundantly and often aggressively. The Egyptians accurately and arrogantly made national and ethnic distinctions from a very early date in their art and literature.” (My emphasis.) Page 318.

    My time in Cairo’s Museum of Ancient Egypt corroborated that, as have what I’ve seen since. Like in “100 Old Kingdom Statues, Dynasty 1 to 6.”

    Oh, and I’d say the Egyptians’ use of SUNSCREEN made them rather strange black folks, n’est pas?

    “The history of observation of human exposure to the sun and its effects dates around 1500 BC in Egypt….The ancient Egyptians used inorganic clays and mineral powders to protect their skin.” (SCIENCE, Vol. 95, No. 3, 2008.)

    And Rigel et al, 2011: “The rise of topical sunscreen application dates back to the ancient Egyptians, who attempted to use olive oil as a photoprotectant.”

    Well, you know how redheads burn! Tut looked a certain way–I don’t know if it was quite Nubian, but in any case Ramesses II was red-haired and LEUCODERM (very light-skinned), as Prof. PF Ceccaldi found in 1976 in France, from analysis of R II’s mummified remains.

    But in any case your Black Egypt can’t survive the factual onslaught that’s come through genetic analysis (especially Kraus et al, 2017), analysis of Egyptian cranio-facial morphology and hair and dentition.

    You know, lil Iris, nobody’s saying there was NO black element in Egypt. It would be shocking if a country situated where Egypt is had no black influence whatsoever. But it’s clear that the Egyptians CLUSTERED with West Eurasians, which is not to say that they had no black element at all, only that they were more closely related to Near Easterners and Europeans, and actually considerably so.

    Scientific confirmation of a “Negroid” element comes, for instance, in that Ramesses III bore the Y-DNA haplogroup E1b1a, a type common in Sub-Sahara.

    But Maca-Meyer et al, 2001 and 2003; Herrera et al, 2004; Myles et al, 2005; Henn et al, 2012; Harich et al, 2010; Bosch et al, 1995; Arredi et al, 2004, Manning et al, 2004–all attest to major West Eurasian presence (Maca-Meyer, Herrera and Manning call it “Caucasian”) in North Africa from the PALEOLITHIC and/or NEOLITHIC, so there should be no surprise that Egypt should have had a major West Eurasian heritage….

    As for your comments on racism again, yep, you show your gross ignorance, because I am an extreme racist (I hackled at your use of RACIST because of what it means to YOU, because in your mouth the word is always accusatory) and what you you wrote concerning what you think is racist doesn’t describe me. Let me educate you a little. Let’s start with a fact you might try to figure out–namely, that no one is more racist than I, and I’ve never wanted to harm or offend anyone because of their ethnic/genetic (“racial”) character, have had amicable interactions with persons of all “races,” have done helpful things toward them and have had them do helpful things toward me.

    See if you can figure that out. See if you can get past the idea that there’s a contradiction there.

    • Replies: @Iris
  175. Iris says:
    @Lucius Vanini

    The UNESCO Symposium was a disaster for the purveyors of absurd “Black Egypt”–as has been anthropology since then (1974).

    The conclusion of the official UNESCO report of the 1974 Cairo Symposium on Ancient Egypt indicates the triumph of Cheikh Anta Diop and his colleague Obenga, whose thesis supporting a Black African origin dominated the proceedings.
    It stated:

    “Although the preparatory working paper sent out by UNESCO gave particulars of what was desired, not all participants had prepared communications comparable with the painstakingly researched contributions of Professors Cheikh Anta Diop and Obenga. There was consequently a real lack of balance in the discussions.”

    [In UNESCO, “The Peopling of Ancient Egypt and the Deciphering of Meroitic Script”, January 28-February 3, 1974 (Paris: UNESCO, 1978).]

    In laymen terms, AfroCentrists Cheikh Anta Diop and Theophilé Obenga gave out an important academic spanking on a world stage. Western Egyptologists now unsuccessfully try and downplay the significance of Diop’s triumph over their colleagues. This is what sore losers do.

    • Replies: @Lucius Vanini
  176. Iris says:

    Let me educate you a little.

    You would need to educate yourself first.

    Rationalised racism based on skin colour is only a recent construction in human history.

    ” The racism based on skin colour was developed in late 17th Century England, alongside the increasing importance of the American colonies, with their twin policies of extermination of the Native Americans and enslavement of African Blacks.

    This racism pervaded the thoughts of Locke, Hume, and other English thinkers (..) Under this influence and the formation of a cultural bridge between Britain and Germany through the University of Gottingen, (..) it is not surprising that the first “academic” on human racial classification – which naturally put Whites, or to use this new term, “Caucasiens”at the head of the hierarchy – was written in the 1770’s by J.B. Blumenbach, a professor at Gottingen”

    (In Martin Bernal ” Black Athena – The AfroAsiatic Roots of Classical civilisation” London 1991)

    Always lagging behind the English, the French developed their own pseudo-scientific “Racialisme” theories with Gobineau, Le Bon, etc .. in the 19th century, when it became necessary to justify their African colonial predation.

    Finally, these racialists theories culminated with Hitler’s “Theory of Races”, which, to his credit, he at least used as defensive ideology to save Germany from planned destruction. We know where the alleged “inferiority of Slavs” lead him to.

    So you see, “little” Lucius, pseudo-scientific racialist theories are not an all-time constant within White European culture. They were promoted in mercenary academia by parties who had high financial stakes in slavery and colonialism, parties of which a certain Hebraic tribe participates in more than her normal share of the population.

    Some individuals promote racialist theories because they are uneducated peasants who haven’t read the classics.
    Others do because they are Hasbara missionaries whose eternal calling is to set one goyim group against another, by any means possible. The latter situation has become rife: Zionists actively promote racialism to take control of the angry idiots in the Alt-Right.
    Good on them, but don’t waste my time.

    • Replies: @Lucius Vanini
    , @geokat62
  177. @Iris

    “At the UNESCO Symposium in 1974, on ‘The Peopling of Egypt of Egypt,’ THE BLACK HYPOTHESIS MET WITH ‘PROFOUND DISAGREEMENT’” (Muhammad Jamal al-Din Muktar)–and anthropology since then, starting with the hair analysis by Titlbachova in 1977 has ravaged the Black Hypothesis, with the Krause et al, 2017 being the coup de grace.

    Remember, the Kraus team found that MODERN Europeans are more related to the ancient Egyptians than the modern EGYPTIANS are, because of the additional black ancestry that came to Egypt in Medieval times. Can you understand that this means that modern Egypt–WHICH IS ITSELF LARGELY OF WEST EURASIAN LINEAGE, especially after the Arab conquest, and the coming of the Ottomans and the Kurds and the Circassians who were Mamluks in Medieval Egypt–is “blacker” than the ancient Egypt which racial bigots like you love to think of as “Black Egypt.”

    Dahlink, until cranio-facial, hair, dentition and genetic analyses reverse and debunk what modern anthropology has found about the Egyptians, it’s useless and immature of you to base your argument on what a negrocentrist charlatan wanted to believe, along with the millions of blacks understandably having problems of racial self-esteem and the whites who pity/patronize them.

    Yes, there was a black African element in Egypt, but Egypt as a whole clustered with West Eurasians, particularly those of the LEVANT, the Near East. Why can’t you face that?

    The COPTS are the Egyptians whose descent has most reliably been traced back to ancient Egypt. And this is what Dobson et al, 2015 (“The Genetics of East African Populations”) says of them:

    “Copts show a common ancestry with North African and Middle Eastern populations [Remember, study after study has confirmed the West Eurasian lineage of North Africans]….Copts share the main ancestral component with North Africans and Middle Eastern Populations….supporting a COMMON ORIGIN WITH EGYPT….They are known to be the most ancient population of Egypt.” Another thing anthropologists have found is great population continuity in Egypt.

    This assemblage of Coptic clerics shows many phenotypes that wouldn’t seem exotic in European countries, once the Oriental garb was off.

  178. @Iris

    Yes, you don’t want your time wasted, because you have no intention of learning about what European Nationalists like me actually feel. You’re afraid to find out that I’m not the “racist” you need me to be: ain’t that right, bigot? You want to continue using RACIST as a weapon: ain’t that right, bigot? You don’t want to understand: you want to blame, accuse, hate.

    All that comes out of YOUR posts regarding racism is that YOU are the bigot. My disagreeing with your poor science and history make me an evil racist in your eyes? Because it contradicts what the people you pity desperately want to believe?

    Not agreeing with charitable lies has nothing to do with racism, let alone racial bigotry.

    You wrote in your first reply: “The ones trying to impress others by their alleged intellectual and cultural superiority are precisely the racists. Personally, I am a ‘White’ who is comfortable thinking that any ‘Black’ person can be potentially more intelligent and more cultured than me. Who is self-deluded and insecure, you or me?”

    You gathered that I don’t think a black can be more intelligent than I–from what I wrote in my first post above–when all I did was present evidence and arguments contrary to what you evidently think we must believe out of compassion for the “historically oppressed”? If that doesn’t show a propensity for bigotry, what does? If a white contradicts what many blacks and their white patronizers want everyone to believe, HE is necessarily a bigot? I suppose that if “people of color” resurrect the Geocentric Theory, none of us can say the evidence is against it, or else be racial bigots?

    And tell me, lil Iris: if I go to say You Tube channels relating to the Nation of Islam or the Black Hebrew Israelites, will I find your comments there to the effect that we mustn’t dislike people for their color, that races don’t exist, etc.? The NOI says we Europeans–and all whites–are Frankenstein’s Monsters of ancient black scientists, and also devils–actual devils. BHI says the people we know as Jews stole the Hebrew identity from blacks and are criminal impostors, not to mention Esau, Edomites, Serpent Seed like all whites. Are you evenhanded, or just an anti-white, a self-alienated SJW who’s inherited the idiocy of Christian self-abnegation, though perhaps dispensing with the theology and eschatology?

    And YES, people can be bigoted against their own “race.” There are anti-white whites and anti-black blacks just as there are female misogynists and male androphobes. You impress me as a self-righteous anti-white bigot. And accordingly you don’t want to see that what you see as racism here is usually WHITES’ REACTION TO RACISM DIRECTED AT THEM.

    As for that “education” with which you seek to acquaint me, LOL, it’s old hat. And who feels, let alone practices, RACISM BASED ON SKIN COLOR??? Huh? Never in my life; nor in all my time of associating with people who think somewhat like I do, have I ever observed the like.

    No, I’M the one qualified to teach YOU about racism. I know I’m a racist and you don’t exhibit similar self-knowledge; also I’ve studied and analyzed racism, unlike you, who are content to think it ordinarily arises from such craziness as morbid aversion to skin color LOL. Of course you didn’t try to figure out my first statement about myself. So here’s another:

    You’ll never encounter a more committed racist than I, and not only have I never wanted to harm or offend anyone because of their ethnic/genetic heritage but I don’t believe in racial superiority. (And actually I’m not a believer in the traditional concept of “race,” but in that of “clusters.” The only reason I use the words RACIST and RACISM is that no one has yet coined a better word that’s widely understood.)

    C’mon: I challenge you to try to make sense of this statement I just made. Imagine: a flaming racist not wanting to offend or hurt any people because of their “race” and not believing in racial inferiority!

  179. Charron says:

    Good to hear from you, it is a while since old St. Marys.

  180. Ahoy says:

    Since January, 2019 we are waiting for the attack on Venezouela in order to bring them all these wonderful goodies of Zion democracy and shout to the world “Venezouela delenda est”.

    Hope we won’t end up with the same waiting game in the case os Iran. “Iran delenda est” sounds so nice. Don’t take that song away from us.

  181. geokat62 says:

    (In Martin Bernal ” Black Athena – The AfroAsiatic Roots of Classical civilisation” London 1991)

    Hi, Iris.

    Not sure if you are well acquainted with this Martin Bernal.

    A little backgrounder on him:

    From about 1975, however, Bernal underwent a radical shift in his interests. In his own words:

    The scattered Jewish components of my ancestry would have given nightmares to assessors trying to apply the Nuremberg Laws, and although pleased to have these fractions, I had not previously given much thought to them or to Jewish culture. It was at this stage that I became intrigued—in a Romantic way—in this part of my ‘roots’. I started looking into ancient Jewish history and— being on the periphery myself—into the relationship between the Israelites and the surrounding peoples, particularly the Canaanites and the Phoenicians.

    I had always known that the latter spoke Semitic languages, but it came as quite a shock to learn that Hebrew and Phoenician were mutually intelligible and that serious linguists treated both as a dialect of a single Canaanite language.

    During this time, I was beginning to study Hebrew and I found what seemed to me a number of striking similarities between it and Greek …

    Bernal came to the conclusion that ancient Greek accounts of Egyptian influence on their civilisation should be taken seriously.

    In her New Republic article, Classicist Mary Lefkowitz completely demolished Benal’s thesis that Egypt, not Greece, was the fountainhead of Western civilization.

    A few choice excerpts from the Preface and Introduction to Mary Lefkowitz’s Not Out of Africa:

    [Black Athena’s] appeal derives from the cultural correctness of its author’s motives: the explicit political purpose of Bernal’s project is to “lessen European cultural arrogance.”

    He also seeks to establish that writers in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries failed to give due credit to the influence of Egypt and the Near East because of anti-Semitic and racist prejudice.

    For those that are interested, here are a few more excerpts from Not Out of Africa:


    There is a need to explain why this misinformation about the ancient world is being circulated, and to indicate that the motives behind it are political, and that this politicizing is dangerous because it requires the end to justify the means…

    Why are questions now being raised about the origins of Greek philosophy and the ethnicity of various ancient celebrities? How could anyone suppose that the ancient Greeks were not the authors of their own philosophy and scientific theory?

    The explanation is that only 160 years ago it was widely believed that Egypt was the mother of Westem civilizafion. Although shown to be untrue as soon as more information about Egypt became available, the earlier beliefs survive in the mythology of Freemasonry. The Masons believe that their rituals derive from Egypt, but in reality their rituals do not originate from a real Egrptian source and are not nearly so ancient as they suppose. Rather, they derive from the description in an eighteenth-century novel of an “Egyptian Mystery System,” which served as a means of providing university-level education and as the source of ancient philosophy. This system, although wholly fictional, was in fact based on Greek sources. And, although no one knew it at the time, these ancient sources were themselves inaccurate, because their authors interpreted Egyptian culture in terms of Greek custom and experience.

    Although the “Egypt” in these accounts never existed, the ancient writers nonetheless believed it, and the Freemasons still talk as if they had some direct connection with it. Because of their conviction that what they are saying is true, their reports can appear credible, especially to people who do not have an extensive knowledge of the ancient world. That is why an attempt to distinguish these plausible fictions from actual fact needs to be undertaken by a classical scholar who knows some ancient languages and who is familiar with the complex nature of ancient historical writing.

    Even though I am not the only classicist who could have written a book about the Afrocentric myth of ancient history, I have one special qualification: a long-standing interest in pseudohistory. I have identified in ancient writings both deliberate and unconscious falsification of evidence. I have also studied the many and ingenious ways in which ancient writers created historical ‘facts” to serve particular purposes, some of them political. It has been a fascinating exercise to bring my knowledge of fictional history to bear on the questions raised in this book, because the issues involved are of interest to all of us, not just to classical scholars.

    As my readers will see from some of the incidents that I shall describe in the course of the book, working on such a controversial subject has not made my life easier. I have not enjoyed having to explain, even to people who have known me for many years, that I am not attempting simply to preserve the traditions of an outmoded discipline; I am defending academic standards. I am not writing about Afrocentrist misconceptions of the past in order to show that Greek civilization is superior to that of Egypt, or any other African nation. I would like to assure anyone who is prepared to make such allegations that, on the confrary, I am deeply grateful for the opportunity to have leamed more about Egypt than I might have done had I not taken on this special project. I have only the highest respect for the advanced civilization and accomplishments of ancient Egypt.

    This book thus has both a negative and a positive purpose. The negative purpose is to show that the Afrocentric myth of ancient history is a myth, and not history. The positive purpose is to encourage people to leam as much about ancient Egypt and ancient Greece as possible. The ancient Egypt described by Afrocentrists is a fiction. I would like children and college students to learn about the real ancient Egypt and the real ancient Africa, and not about the historical fiction invented by Europeans…

    Instead, I will try to show that no such cover-up operation has ever existed. Afrocentrism is not simply an alternative interpretation of history, offered on the basis of complex data or ambiguities in the evidence: there is simply no reason to deprive the Greeks of the credit for their own achievements. The basic facts are clear enough, at least to dispassionate observers. In effect, Afrocentrists are demanding that ordinary historical methodology be discarded in favor of a system of their own choosing. This system allows them to ignore chronology and facts if they are inconvenient for their purposes. In other words, their historical methodology allows them to alter the course of history to meet their own specific needs.

    In asserting that important aspects of Greek civilization were derived from Ewpt, modern Afrocentric writers are, however, following a long-established pattern. Some two thousand years ago Jews in Alexandria insisted that the Greeks had been inspired by their own earlier civilization: Plato, they said, had studied the works of Moses. The claim, at the time that they made it, did not sound as incredible as it does today. Their notion of chronology was vague, and their knowledge of Greek philosophy limited. But modern Afrocentric writers have no such excuse.

    Although it is understandable that Afrocentrists, as certain Europeans have done before them, should want to take credit for the ancient Greek origins of Western civilization, the basic outlines of chronology in the Mediterranean are well known, and all the texts under discussion are readily available in translation in all university libraries. There is no reason why claims of a conspiracy should be credited, if no real evidence can be produced to support it. Despite allegations to the contrary, virtually all the claims made by Afrocentrists can be shown to be without substance. Anyone who is willing to look into the matter can see that it is utterly absurd to state (as some Afrocentrists have done) that Aristotle’s treatise On the Soul was derived from the Egyptian “Book of the Dead.” In fact, all that the two texts have in common is that they mention souls. But that is true of a great many other ancient documents.

    In this book I will show why these and many other claims about Greece’s debt to Egypt are false. I will suggest that arguing that Afrocentric writers offer a valid interpretation of ancient history is like being comfortable with the notion that the earth is flat. But although such new and daring hypotheses about the past can easily win adherents, especially when they favor present cultural and political aspirations, everyone should be aware that there are real dangers in allowing history to be rewritten, even for culturally useful purposes. Even though it may inspire students with pride and self-confidence, writing and teaching such ethnic histories, each with its own brand of “ethnic truth,” sanctions the invention of falsehoods.

    What will happen some years from now, when students who have studied different versions of the past discover that their picture of events is totally incomparable with what their classmates have learned about their own ethnic histories? Will students of one ethnicity deny the existence of other “ethnic truths,” with dire consequences akin to the ethnic conflicts in the former Yugoslavia? Perhaps they will be reassured that the differences do not matter because all history is a form of rhetoric, and narratives of the past can be constructed virtually at will. When that time comes, and I hope it never will, our students will be no better off than the Jews who claimed that Plato was a disciple of Moses: they will have no respect for evidence, no concern with chronology, no understanding of the differences between languages and cultures. In other words, they will have overlooked everything that has been learned about history since Herodotus in the fifth century B.C. began his famous inquiry into the human past. It is in the hope of helping to prevent such retrogression that I have written this book…

    Despite its anachronism, history based on acceptable (as opposed to warranted) proof has considerable appeal among American academics today. The best illustration of popularity of acceptable proof is the success enjoyed by Martin Bernal’s multivolume project Black Athena, which is one of the few works about the ancient world (other than the Bible) that many modern nonclassicists have heard about, or have even tried to read. Its appeal derives from the cultural correctness of its author’s motives: the explicit political purpose of Bernal’s project is to “lessen European cultural arrogance.”

    Bemal attempts to show that ancient historians have not acknowledged the full extent of Greece’s debt to Egypt and the Near East. He also seeks to establish that writers in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries failed to give due credit to the influence of Egypt and the Near East because of anti-Semitic and racist prejudice.

    Evidently we have reached a point in historical study where motive, however perceived, is more important than evidence. Because questions like “Was Cleopatra black?” are asked for cultural reasons, the only acceptable responses will be culturally rather than factually correct: “Yes, she was black because she might possibly have had an Egyptian ancestor, and because as a black she could represent the fate of Africa under European oppression.” Myth has now taken precedence over reality, even in the academy. Clearly the proponents of ethnic history do not foresee what will happen if other groups, of whom they do not approve, start writing their own histories according to their own notions of ethnic correctness. When someone argues, as Cheryl Johnson-Odim has done, that ancient Egypt should be allowed “to stand for the rest of Africa,” since “what we are really talking about here is symbolism anyway,” she has made an argument that will find cultural acceptance. But once symbolism is taken as a mode of historical proof, the way is open for other groups, whose aims Johnson-Odim might not support, to argue for a different symbolism. Only a few of the people teaching in universities today seem to have not forgotten that not long ago symbolic myths of ethnic supremacy were responsible for the deaths of whole populations. One advantage (perhaps the only one) of being older than most of my colleagues is that I do remember.

  182. Iris says:

    Hello Geokat;

    Many thanks for taking the time to reply.

    I have a passion for Archaeology since childhood. I fell in love which Ancient Greece, after which I also turned my attention to Egypt and Mesopotamia. I actually read all of Cheikh Anta Diop’s books in French, there’s about 9 of them :-), as well as all 3 volumes of Martin Bernal’s “Black Athena , the Afroasiatic roots of Classical Civilisation”.

    The works of Cheikh Anta Diop, revealing Eastern Africa as the heart of Ancient Egypt, contain a wealth of information which is simply astounding. He made a compelling demonstration, using his intelligence to interpret evidence his critics remained blind to.

    It is no surprise that, almost on his own, he brought down the thesis of traditional academia ganged up against him at the 1974 UNESCO Cairo symposium. His works are partially translated to English, and one of his books has already reached the 30th Edition. So much for the “debunkers”…

    Martin Bernal must have been influenced by the works of Diop ; he was a Sinologue academic who later turned his interest to Near Eastern studies.
    He looked at several domains: etymology, myths, alphabet, conquests, commercial relationships, urban settlements, etc.. and demonstrated that the “Ancient Model” of civilisation was far more likely and credible than the “Aryan Model”.

    The “Ancient Model” was a conventional view among Greeks during the Classical and Hellenistic periods, according to which Greek culture arose around 1500 BC as a result of colonisation by Phoenicians and Egyptians.
    The “Aryan Model” was devised in the mid-18th century, first formulated in the 1820’s at the University of Gottingen, a German University with strong collaborative links to slavery-champion Britain.

    Mary Lefkowitz’s critic of Bernal’s “Black Athena revisited” is unprofessional, typical of Hasbara “academics”. She deliberately excluded Bernal from the “refutation”, to make any further debate irrelevant. He replied to her very convincingly and elegantly in “Black Athena writes back“.

    Have a great time in beautiful, refined Greece, a beacon of culture and humanity, without which our Western civilisation wouldn’t exist. Best.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @geokat62
    , @Lucius Vanini
  183. Iris says:

    I just briefly looked Mary Lefkowitz up in Wikipedia.

    In just half a page of biography, they manage to tells us that she was victim on “Anti-Semitic” attacks because of her refutation of “Black Athena”.

    The “attack” in question was Pr Tony Martin, an African American academic, daring to state:
    “Black people should interpret their own reality. . . . Jews have been in the forefront of efforts to thwart the interpretation of our own history”.

    Poor Hasbara, LOL, always victimised for being such beacons of intellectual integrity….

    • Replies: @geokat62
  184. geokat62 says:

    Many thanks for taking the time to reply.

    My pleasure, Iris.

    If you’re interested, you may wish to view the video, Dr. John Henrik Clarke vs. Mary Lefkowitz: The Great Debate (1996):

    While it may be very lengthy, it is equally entertaining.


    • Agree: Iris
  185. geokat62 says:

    The “attack” in question was Pr Tony Martin, an African American academic, daring to state:
    “Black people should interpret their own reality. . . . Jews have been in the forefront of efforts to thwart the interpretation of our own history”.

    I am very familiar with the work of Prof. Tony Martin, especially on the Transatlantic Slave Trade and the “Jewish onslaught” he faced for having the temerity to place the NOI’s book, Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews, on his class syllabus.

    I’m on record defending the integrity of Prof. Martin’s scholarship when it comes to his remarks on the Transatlantic slave trade and the accuracy of his references to Jewish demographers.

    On the basis of the evidence presented, however, I take a less favourable view on his position and the position of other revisionists on the subject of Afrocentrism.

    Have a great time in beautiful, refined Greece, a beacon of culture and humanity, without which our Western civilisation wouldn’t exist. Best.

    Thank you very much, Iris. I too wish you nothing but the best.

  186. @Ron Unz

    My strong impression is that the vast majority of the ancestry of today’s “Arabs” is that of the pre-Arabic peoples of the Fertile Crescent, exactly the Sumerians, Elamites, and Egyptians you mention. Basically, the Arab Conquest was much more linguistic, cultural, and religious than genetic.

    Lots of people are under false impression that both Khomeini and Khamenei are Persians. They are just like Sistani and Hassan Nasrallah, all four being Arabs. One has to look at the color of their turban.

    The Prophet used to bless Yemen which included Oman. The Omayyad Dynasty was based in Syria, where Prophet’s grand daughter is buried. Prophet’s first cousin and son-in-law Ali had his head quarters in Iraq. He is buried in Najaf, Iraq. His son Hussein is buried in Karbala, Iraq.

    Maybe Egypt and some African nations were not Arabs, but I doubt it as there are quite a few Jews in Morocco.

  187. @Iris

    LOL, “so much for the debunkers” of Diop, because that negrocentric charlatan’s books have had up to 30 editions? How many editions has ALICE IN WONDERLAND had?

    The debunkers of Diop have been modern scientists who’ve shown that the West Eurasian, non-indigenous-African demographic in Egypt was greater than the indigenous African, so much so that the Egyptians clustered with Near Easterners and Europeans.

    WOW, how you pity and patronize the poor little black folk! You value the wishing-to-believe pseudohistory of a Diop more than decades of contrary research on the part of scientists of various anthropological disciplines.

    AND you discount the fact that negrocentrism (usually called AFROCENTRISM, but that term seems to endorse the vulgar notion that AFRICAN necessarily means black) has a large black following because it eases blacks’ problems of racial self-esteem–and evidently a white following too, inasmuch as patronizers of blacks like you value it for the same reason. As anti-negrocentric BLACK writer Ben Levi Yahweh hath written, “[Afrocentrism]….is tendentious, simplistic and THERAPEUTIC.” (My emphasis.)

    How many printings have sick books like the BOOK OF REVELATION had? Such books have had staying power because they’ve been part of ideologies in which people have invested much emotion, not because they deal in fact.

    On top of everything, you accuse whites of racial bigotry LOL if they dare accept evidence over politically correct and charitable fallacies! That shows exactly who here, among us, actually has bigoted tendencies….. If whites think in ways inconsistent with how many blacks and their patronizers like to feel, they’re evil, notwithstanding that evidence is on their side.

    Now, via the media–usually the Social but sometimes even the Corporate Media–blacks are lying about us Euros. Negrocentrists, black sectarians and black trolls are publicly attempting to steal our history; flinging mud at such history as they’re pleased to leave us; propagating hoaxes which typecast us as criminal bigots; asserting that we’re devils, Frankenstein’s Monsters of ancient black scientists, “mutants,” albinos, history thieves, Edomites, Esau, Serpent Seed; saying we’ve stolen all our technology from them, the actual inventors of everything; scorning our Neandertal and cave-dwelling ancestors and deducing our inferiority therefrom; insisting that they took us out of the caves and taught us civilization; exulting in the certain prospect of our destruction by Jesus (who’s black), Yahweh (ditto), sunshine, skin cancer, insufficient birth rate, recessive genes, etc.

    Tell me, O righteous hater of racism, do you go to You Tube or other pages to controvert such racist behavior? Are you even be annoyed by any of it? I would think not, because it’s evident that you’ve been taught self-alienation quite successfully by those who hate and/or are envious of, to put it in slightly pompous terms, the heritage of the Europeans/Near Easterners Ancestral Cluster (Cf. Brenn et al, 2012).

    That’s the main difference between me and you, I fear. The poisoners and manipulators failed to prevent my loving my heritage and the peoples most closely related to me; and indeed I love them passionately.

    P.S. Diop showed that the Egyptians were East Africans? Well, you see, the genetic science wasn’t so far advanced then; but 30 years later Herrera et al, 2004, concluded “The Nile River Delta population is mainly Caucasian in origin,” while 41 years later Dobson et al, 2015 (“The Genetics of EAST AFRICAN Populations”) said: “Copts share the main ancestral component with North African [N. Afs. are chiefly of West Eurasian lineage] and Middle Eastern populations….SUPPORTING A COMMON ORIGIN WITH EGYPT.” My emphasis.

  188. Thank you, Dr. Sniegoski, for another insightful article.

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