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In the end, the plague touched us all…it was not confined….breeding in a compost of greed and uselessness and murder…promising life and delivering death…[serving] as furnished rooms for ideology.”—Peter Hamill, Liner notes to Blood on the Tracks

The 2019 Novel Coronavirus, first detected late last year in the hub city of Wuhan, China is a rapidly-spreading viral disease, often characterized by a cluster of acute respiratory symptoms. The virulence of this outbreak has put most of China under a lockdown: over 50 million people have been quarantined in the immediate region; 40,000 people have been infected, and over 900–and counting–have died. Many neighboring Chinese cities also have restrictions on travel and movement to stem the tide of infection; and across the country, all of China is facing restrictions and hardship. In the face of this sudden and tragic crisis–and the extraordinary social distancing measures the Chinese government has taken to safeguard public health and prevent infection,–the western media has made a highly political choice on how to report about it.

Instead of voicing support or encouraging solidarity–“We are Wuhan”—western corporate media have chosen to go all out to criticize and demonize China, sparing no effort to recycle and rekindle ugly, racist, orientalist, and dehumanizing trope s, using any perceived misstep, pretext, and shortcoming to tar China and the Chinese. One virulent narrative is that this is deliberate Chinese bioweapon to reduce population,. another narrative, no less toxic and virulent, alleges that the Chinese leadership, out of a “fear of political embarrassment”, suppressed free speech and silenced the flow of information “at critical moments”, “allowing the virus to gain a tenacious hold”, thus creating the conditions for a lethal epidemic that has led to the deaths of hundreds and the infection of thousands.

The NY Times takes the [yellow] cake for sowing this toxic, racist disinformation, alleging in numerous articles and opinion pieces of a “cover up”: that “China’s old habits put secrecy and order ahead of openly confronting the crisis”; that “they played down dangers to the public, leaving the city’s 11 million residents unaware that they should protect themselves”, and presenting this as proof dispositive that the Chinese system is fatally flawed. All this while reveling in and boosting on its website, unseemly schadenfreude that suppression of information and free speech has led to condign and expected catastrophe.

The most recent iteration of this propaganda concerns a Dr Li Wenliang, recently deceased. Dr Li spoke of the disease at an early moment in the outbreak (December 30th) to a group of colleagues. He was later reprimanded by the police for “spreading rumors”. After going back to work, he himself contracted the virus, and despite being young and seemingly healthy, he tragically passed away. Latching onto this unexpected fatality like a virus itself, the NY Times grafted onto his death, the “authoritarian suppression of the truth” meme, thus exploiting tragedy to circulate a political myth: that Dr. Li was a valiant, dissenting whistleblower who had “tried to sound a warning that a troubling cluster of…infections…could grow out of control”. In other words, he had tried to warn the public early on about the virus, but had been brutally silenced and suppressed.

In particular, the Times claims that Dr Li was arrested by the government, “in the middle of the night”, no less; and suggests that had he not been silenced, 100’s, perhaps thousands of lives would have been saved, and countless infections prevented. In other words, the Chinese communists, because of their obsession with political appearances, their mendacious secrecy, and totalitarian control, instigated a cover up that has had a nightmarish consequences for global health.

This disclosure would be truly extraordinary, heroic, award-meriting journalism. Except for one small problem: none of the assertions are supported by the facts, and none of the interpretations bear scrutiny.

In order to peddle this toxic canard, the NY Times–as it did with its gutter journalism justifying the Iraq War–has had to yellow-cake up a foul brew of innuendo, half-truths, misrepresentations, outright lies, spiked fiercely with stereotypes, racial hatred, and red-baiting, while torturing the English language, eliding logic, ignoring science, and shredding the credibility of the fourth estate–yet again.

These are the facts:

1. Not a whistle blower:

The NY Times suggests that Dr Li was a whistle blower, “sounding a warning”. But Dr. Li was not a whistle blower, by any usual definition of the word. He didn’t notify the Chinese CDC or any public health organ. He did not notify the hospital authorities. He did not warn the public of wrongdoing, danger, or cover up. What he did do is share information with 7 school colleagues on 12/30 on a private messaging group. (He also shared a photo of a confidential medical record). How that constitutes “whistle blowing” is not explained by the NY Times.

2. Fraudulent Timeline:

The NY Times claims that the sanctioning and silencing led to suppression of timely and important information–a cover up of a dangerous but necessary truth. This assertion is not borne out by the facts. The “whistle”–if we can call it that–had already been blown by others. For example, doctor, Zhang Jixian, the director of respiratory and critical care medicine at Hubei Provincial Hospital, had officially notified the hospital on December 27th of an unusual cluster of viral cases, and the hospital had notified the city’s’ disease control center. After further consultation on the 29th, the regional CDC was notified and had started full scale research and investigation. The government was already actively investigating and doing their due diligence with other cases long before the NY Times allegations (constructed as always from anonymous sources). Zhang herself, contrary to the suppression and punishment narrative, was recognized and commended by the government.

3. Wrong Claim:

The doctor had claimed it was SARS, a related, but different coronavirus. However, it was not SARS. Why is this important? Given the panic that spread during the prior 2003 SARS epidemic, spreading this incorrect information would be a understandable reason to try to restrict inaccurate, and possibly panic-inducing information.

4. No Evidence:

Well what’s in a name? SARS or no SARS, it was still dangerous, and shouldn’t have been suppressed, no?

In making its claims of cover up, the NY Times suggests that the authorities recognized and knew that the disease was dangerous, but covered it up anyway. This is far from the truth at the time: there was little clear evidence that this was a dangerous or severe epidemic at the time of the outbreak.

In particular:

a) there was no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission at that time (the first case happened two weeks later, on 1/14)

b) there had been no fatalities (the first fatality was 1/09/20, ten days later), and there were only a handful of cases.

c) even later, as more casualties started to appear, most of the casualties were older people with serious existing pathology or co-morbidity.

In other words, it was unclear how serious this was, and whether and how serious actions should be taken: commonsense tells us in winter, colds, flu and pneumonia are not uncommon; discerning a novel, serious outbreak is not a simple task. The mere fact that the Chinese authorities were able to identify and take action on this so rapidly is indicates how competent, effective, and conscientious many of them were.

5. No Expertise or Qualification:

The NY Times claims the “doctor tried to sound a warning”, but it’s important to note that Dr Li had no expertise in the subject matter, was not familiar with the situation, was not treating affected patients, and had no expertise to make any such claims: he was a ophthalmologist (not an epidemiologist, virologist, infectious disease specialist, internist, ICU specialist, or even a GP or X-ray/CT technician). There’s no proof that he was privy to any specialized insider information that was being covered up; and the hospital was already taking all known precautions with patients at the time.

6. Not arrested:

Dr Li was not arrested , as the NY Times claims. The doctor was called in, lightly reprimanded (talked to, and signed a document not to spread rumors) and went straight back to work. This begs the question, if a non-specialist (for example, a podiatrist) at a public General Hospital had claimed that there was an outbreak of infectious disease (for example, bubonic plague (and released HIPAA-protected documents (like Dr. Li did)), how credible is it that they would have escaped some sort of official sanction?

7. Understandable Reasons for Acting Methodically

The government had reasonable, and defensible reasons to act prudently and methodically. While the jury is still out, and the timeline bears elaborating, there’s still little evidence that this was a deliberate attempt to “stifle criticism” and “silence” to avoid “embarrassment”. Based on the evidence available at the time, we can reasonably surmise that:

a) The authorities didn’t know how serious this was at the time—a reasonable assumption given the known evidence at the time.

b) The “nocebo” effect (negative placebo) is real–people can take any ambiguous symptoms (that are always present in the body) and think they are sick.

c) Panicked, mass hysterical responses are not uncommon, and themselves can constitute a public health hazard. Either of these effects, caused by premature or careless disclosure could have resulted in:
i) People thinking themselves sick

ii) People crowding hospitals, stretching resources, while spreading the infection faster, as well as preventing genuinely sick people from getting care (all at a time when public services are winding down)

iii) Mass exodus, spreading the infection outside of Wuhan much faster

iv) Hoarding & scarcity of masks and other supplies, vigilante quarantines, and other hysterical, dangerous, and unproductive behavior.

It’s important to note also that this was the period of the Spring Festival, the busiest and most important holiday of the year. While it’s easy to criticize the cautious, tentative responses in hindsight, It’s understandable that authorities might not want to take extreme measures if it was a false alarm.

8. Upfront Transparency:

The NY Times alleges “cover up” and “secrecy”: however, the Wuhan authorities publicized that the doctor had been sanctioned. In this way, they actually spread information about his “whistleblowing” and the fact of the disease symptoms. As a matter of fact, they have publicized all the people sanctioned for similar actions. This would seem to indicate that:

a) at the time, they genuinely believed they were taking correct actions–actions that would be justifiable and vindicated—and they did not know that this disease was as serious as it turned out to be (and it’s not clear how could they have known)

b) it’s unlikely they were trying to hide or cover up anything. If they had been trying to silence or cover up something, this incident would most likely have gone unannounced.

9. Not Ahead of the Government

The NY Times claims that Dr. Li sounded an alarm in a context where the governments “initial handling” was slow, negligent, or reluctant. The facts belie this:

Dr. Li was not ahead of the government. As we noted above regarding the timeline, the government (Wuhan disease authorities) had already been informed, and they delivered their own public warning the same day as Dr Li’s sharing with his friends. There is little evidence to show that this was “forced” or “compelled” by the ophthalmologist’s message (as the NYTimes has claimed).
In fact, as is usually the case with public announcements, the health department had likely been discussing, drafting, and planning their statement prior to release on that day.
Note, also that this information was released before Dr. Li was called to the police for reprimand on 1/03 (in other words, the information was already out, and the reprimand can be interpreted as a critique of the speculation, as well as the how, why, and who of sharing than an attempt at erasure). Whether the reprimand was judiciously or skillfully delivered is another matter, but the facts remain that no coverup can be asserted from this incident.

10. “Yellow-Caking” the Experts, Again.

The NY Times implies that the Chinese government knew the outbreak was serious, but covered it up and delayed notification anyway to avoid political embarrassment. But again, it seems that the facts belie the assertion:
The WHO was also notified on 12/31 (the following day) of an “unknown virus” but did not consider it serious. The WHO did not suggest any quarantine or extreme public health measures. On 1/05, they advised against a travel restriction. 1/15, they again indicated there was no human-to-human transmission. 1/23, they indicated it was not a public health emergency. Only on 1/30 did they declare an emergency–fully 30 days after the so-called NYTimes-imputed “whistleblowing”.

11. Communist Catastrophe, really?:
The NYTimes, in particular, along with its ideological cousin the CFR, has been avidly red-baiting, pumping up the narrative of “whistleblower-cover-up” and “weak governance” endemic to “authoritarian-dictatorships-that-create-catastrophes-like-Chernobyl” trope. “Undemocratic Governance is dangerous for your health” claim the ideologues. But freedom-loving capitalist America easily outdoes any modern socialist state in its negligence and damage to public health and wellbeing. A casual point of comparison is the 2009 H1N1 A “San Diego” virus. This took the US To 6 months to declare an emergency and take active measures. Because of this inaction, 150k-575K people died all over the world. 80% were under 65 years old. Or last year’s flu (61,000 deaths in the US). Or this year’s flu (8-10,000 dead since October), 1400 dying in a single week. Oh, and let’s not forget the AIDS crisis. The opiate crisis. The lead crises. The homelessness crisis. The list is endless, repetitious, atrocious.

12. New Standards in Crisis Response.

Contrary to NYTimes claims of incompetence, “weakness”, and slowness, it seems that the Chinese have been setting new, groundbreaking standards and practices in outbreak detection and response. Examination of the facts shows that the Chinese were actually well prepared and well coordinated in their response–this has been acknowledged and commended by the WHO, and other public health agencies and experts of repute. They had a centralized database and control tower, which is why they were able to react so quickly to isolate, identify, sequence, and take public action on this. Let’s not forget, they also built two full-functioning, state-of-the-art isolation hospitals in a matter of days.

13. Monday Morning Schadenfreude:

The NYTimes has been willfully ignoring all of that is positive: skilled, coordinated mobilization; technical and medical tour-de-forces; mass acts of solidarity, generosity, and kindness across the country; and valiant, extraordinary medical and medical worker competence and heroism. Instead the Monday-morning epidemiological quarterbacking of the NY Times (and derivative media) has been savage and odious in exploiting every perceived mishap as a pretext to pile on and attack the Chinese people and the Chinese system: for example, the NY Times article on 2/01/20– insinuates cover-up, and “systemic weakness” (but it has to exclude the specific timeline* in order to make its case).
Nicholas Kristof, taking a sabbatical from his paternalistic, prurient, misguided, and misleading reportage on child sex trafficking, is especially toxic in his offensive, red-baiting misrepresentation:

Xi used his tight rule to control information rather than to stop an epidemic”.
“China makes poor decisions because it squelches independent voices…[it listens only to] flattery and optimism.. Xi is a preening dictator, some citizens are paying a price”.

In times of crisis, for western nations, the normal response is “We are Paris, NY, etc”. When it comes to Asia and China, the measured response is: “You deserve this because of your dirtiness, immorality, and bat-eating communist dictatorship”; “You would rather control your citizens than save lives”. This is often followed up by some variant of “nuke China”. Kristof and his ideological teammates can be isolated here, patients zero with their null set of facts, turning up the dials to 10 in this toxic wind tunnel of Sinophobia and hate speech.

14. Bashing China on “Free Speech”:

Running lapdog parallel to Kristof, taking the baton/bone from the NY Times, the Guardian also says “if China valued free speech, there would be no coronavirus”. This is the offensive viral meme cultured and replicated from the death Dr. Li. Of course, even cursory reflection might lead one to consider–in the capital of “Free Speech”–lead poisoning in Flint Michigan, the AIDS crisis, H1N1 A pandemic, mass shootings, not to mention Global Warming. It also bears emphasizing that the HK rioters–and their media backers–have a strong track record of opposing any “Free Speech” that doesn’t agree with theirs, by burning, beating, lynching, threatening, and doxxing everyone who disagrees with them.

Of course, fetishizing “Free speech” is not a panacea to all political or social ills. Certainly in a public health crisis, it cannot be assumed that unbridled “Free speech” is factually correct, or even beneficial (cf. “yelling fire in a crowded theater”). Underlying this fetishized concept is the liberal/anarcho-capitalist conceit that “in the marketplace of ideas” the correct one will naturally emerge to benefit all of society. Of course, history has shown, time and time again, that this is hardly the case. The “free speech” of the “anti-vax” movement is a case in point: it increases the chances that the US will be subject to a deadly pandemic. Various local epidemics, as well as the US (San Diego) H1N1 A Pandemic of 2009 with 280K dead (150-575K dead) signal to us this potential risk.

Another point of comparison: 11,435 people died in the 1st 2 weeks of August of 2003 in the free-speech capital of France. This was from heatstroke, dehydration and their sequelae–all easily preventable and predictable deaths for a government with a commitment to public health.
French capitalism/governance was not raked through the coals for this, nor considered to have lost fundamental legitimacy because of this tragedy–nor charged with covering it up or underreporting (although they did)–although to prevent these deaths required no special treatments, hospitals, protective equipment, medicine, research, or technology, It just required, some extra water, some common sense, and perhaps a few public shelters. And political will and care. Can you say “politique de deux poids, deux mesures”?

15. Amateurism Trumps Experts.

In order to bolster their trumped-up case, the NY Times, along with others (the rabid anti-China newssite DemocracyNow!, the CFR/FP) has trolled out a shadowy truck-load of ideological scientific amateurs to bolster and backstop their case. Of course, it’s convenient to overlook the fact that epidemiology is a complex science–and that predicting the course, virulence, and lethality of an outbreak is not unlike predicting the strength, path, and effects of a hurricane. Trotting out amateurs from the NYTimes to troll the epidemiologists and the WHO is like getting amateur bloggers to attack atmospheric scientists (for getting a detail of global warming wrong).

15. Was the Chinese response fast enough?

There’s a perpetual insinuation by the NY Times and its ideological allies that hide-bound, “authoritarian” bureaucracies cannot respond appropriately, quickly, or effectively to such outbreaks: “Weak, undemocratic governance is dangerous for your health”.

This question really begs others: fast relative to what? These responses were some of the fastest institutional response seen in modern epidemiological history.
Appropriate relative to what? This was the period of the Spring Festival, with the largest mass migration in history (billions of trips taken) with all the conflicting demands, uncertainties and strains that that entailed.

Effective relative to what? Modern responses under neoliberal order (MERS, Ebola, H1N1) have been an endless catalog of global catastrophes.

When the investigations are completed–and the Chinese government is ruthlessly investigating itself—and the history written, the record may judge that these were the best possible actions of an organized, conscientious government, trying to do the best under difficult, almost impossible circumstances. Were the responses perfect? Most certainly not. Were there gaps and lapsus? Absolutely, yes. Did the central and local government work hand-in-hand perfectly? Most certainly not. Was there discontent expressed on Weibo and other public fora? Most certainly. But given the extraordinary complexities and challenges of responding to the outbreak, its timing, its conflicting priorities, the size of the population, its stresses, strains and demands, we can be sure that this response will be written up in the Public Health text books, and when the final judgement call is made, it will be largely favorable to the Chinese government, bloviating ideologues and racists be damned.

 

*Brief Timeline of Outbreak and Responses:

12/8 First suspected case

12/8-12/18 investigations started by authorities of 7 cases of suspicious pneumonia; 2 linked to seafood market

12/21 First cluster of patients identified with “an unknown pneumonia” (reported 1/01)

12/25 Report of medical workers possibly infected

12/27 Dr. Zhang Jixian, the director of respiratory and critical care medicine at Hubei Provincial Hospital, notifies the hospital of an unusual cluster of viral cases; the hospital notifies the city’s’ disease control center.

12/29 Hubei Provincial hospital convenes and consults with a group of experts, and then notifies the regional CDC.

12/30 An Ophthalmologist , Dr Li Wenliang, in Wuhan, China, posts a warning about a cluster of patients diagnosed with SARS to colleagues. patients quarantined. (This doctor is censured by authorities for spreading unconfirmed rumors; This is the incident is characterized by the western media as “suppression”; however, it’s important to note 1) he’s not a virologist or epidemiologist, 2) he was not treating these patients 3) it wasn’t SARS 4) the nature of the disease was being investigated, but was still unknown at the time 5) most importantly, all of the patients were quarantined).

Notice issued and public health announcement made by Wuhan Municipal Health Committee of an unknown viral illness.

12/31 Chinese government informs WHO of existence of a new unknown virus; emergency symposium held on treatment; experts dispatched to investigate

1/1 Seafood market shut down as potential cause of outbreak. Chinese researchers at the CCDC publish an article on suspected outbreak.

1/2 41 patients confirmed with nCoV 2019

1/05 WHO advises against travel restrictions; no human to human transmission found at this time

1/7 Mayor’s Party meeting (didn’t mention virus, human transmission unclear at this time)

1/9 First casualty of outbreak (61 yr old with co-morbid symptoms–liver disease and stomach cancer)–death publicly reported on 1/11 after autopsy. To note–no one knew that the disease was fatal until this case, nearly one month after the initial case, and this person was already seriously sick.

1/10 First genetic blueprint sequenced and posted of nCoV 2019 (this is a medical accomplishment)

1/12 “Surge in chest illnesses” reported; Dr. Li Wenliang hospitalized.

1/13-1/15 Japan and Thailiand confirm first infections outside of China (based on publicly released blueprint)–transparency assisted identification

1/14 first suspected human to human transmission (wife of 1st casualty). This is the first time that it’s suspected that human transmission is involved.

1/15 WHO indicates no sustained human to human transmission

1/18 Community “potluck” in Baibuting, Wuhan with 40,000 attendees (severely criticized afterwards, however human-human transmission was still unclear at this point); 312 cases

1/20 Premier Li Keqiang urges decisive and effective actions

1/22 People in Wuhan told to wear masks

1/23 Quarantine announced of Wuhan; all outbound traffic frozen, WHO states this is not Public Health Emergency of Global concern

1/24 13 Hubei cities quarantined; 7 provinces declare public emergency; 26 dead, 830 infected
Lancet article published.

1/25 10 provinces declare public emergency; NY Events cancelled around China; 5 other cities quarantined in Hubei; 56M affected; Xi declares “grave situation”.
1/26 All wildlife trade banned; 56 dead 2000 cases

1/27 106 dead 4515 cases

1/30 WHO declares Global Emergency (170 dead, 7,711 cases)

2/01 1st death outside of China (Chinese man in Philippines); 304 dead, 14280 cases

2/02 Huoshenshan hospital, dedicated to treatment of nCov 2019 opened; new mask factory commences production in Beijing

2/03 361 dead, 17,205 cases (however infection rates outside of Wuhan are flattening or diminishing)

2/04 2nd death outside of China (Chinese man from Wuhan in Hong Kong). 427 dead, 20,000+infected.

2/07 Dr. Li Wenliang dies from 2019 nCoV.

2/10 910 dead, 40,000+infected.

 
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  1. Tusk says:

    One virulent narrative is that this is deliberate Chinese bioweapon to reduce population

    It seems both sides of the China debate think it’s a bioweapon, with this “G-News” saying it’s a Chinese one, and “Godfree Roberts” calling it an American one.

    As for me I’ll leave the origin of this to those who care, but I will on the otherhand share some funny clips from the chaos:

    http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh0vgA7sTjDKf99C0L

    https://twitter.com/fangshimin/status/1225556327365144576/video

  2. utu says:

    Instead of voicing support or encouraging solidarity–“We are Wuhan”—western corporate media have chosen to go all out to criticize and demonize China, sparing no effort to recycle and rekindle ugly, racist, orientalist, and dehumanizing trope s, using any perceived misstep, pretext, and shortcoming to tar China and the Chinese.

    Very true. Sad and very telling. One can detect a lot of Schadenfreunde and not only among the deplorables of Unz Review. However, China is not forthcoming and not showing the full scope of what is happening. It is typical for any authoritarian system that perceives openness as weakness. If China wants to change the tone of the narrative it must shows its weakness and vulnerability and start asking for help.

    • Disagree: GuestAug
    • LOL: WHAT
  3. Anonymous[191] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tusk

    It seems both sides of the China debate think it’s a bioweapon, with this “G-News” saying it’s a Chinese one, and “Godfree Roberts” calling it an American one.

    Godfree Roberts seems to be in the minority. Most Americans who don’t believe it’s natural seem to believe that it’s a Chinese bioweapon, either accidentally or deliberately leaked. Some of them even believe that it’s a hoax altogether, or a cover for the Chinese government to build concentration camps under the guise of building hospitals, etc. Among the Americans who believe in a conspiracy theory explanation theory of the outbreak, those that believe it’s an American bioweapon directed against China seem to be very few or nonexistent. Even most right wing Americans who normally believe in all sorts of conspiracy theories implicating the US government and elites in extremely nefarious deeds seem to think that it can’t be an American conspiracy, and that if it is a conspiracy, it must be a Chinese one. I suppose it’s nationalism that explains this.

    A White American woman was infected and is in a hospital in Tokyo. She says she just had a mild cough and felt fine, and is not being given any medicine or treatment. There are reports that the virus targets Asians, and does not really harm non-Asians such as this woman:

    • Disagree: GuestAug
  4. Anonymous[197] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    However, China is not forthcoming and not showing the full scope of what is happening. It is typical for any authoritarian system that perceives openness as weakness. If China wants to change the tone of the narrative it must shows its weakness and vulnerability and start asking for help.

    True, but you also have to see it from the Chinese government’s perspective. For them, and for any government in this kind of situation, this is also a national security issue, and any government has to consider the possibility of biowarfare. They are going to be privy to their intelligence services’ intel about possible biowarfare, and who knows what they know or think. If it is biowarfare, inviting help can allow the adversary to overtly or covertly obtain intel about the effects of their attack and make future attacks more effective and deadly.

    • Agree: Alfred
  5. What is small is easily scattered.
    – Lao Tzu

    And the petri dish is us.

    p.s. The Nicholas Kristoff expose is a ha ha and reminded me of my visit to Cambodia in 2012. King Sihanouk had just died. Everything was at half mast. I could not enjoy the red light district even if I wanted too. But late at night I did see little kids rummaging through eight foot high piles trash like happy raccoons. And around the capital, big billboards still announced during the day “Child Abuse is a Crime” while children rolled in filth sat listlessly along some roadsides and brand new SUVs (Land Rovers and Land Cruisers) drove by with NGO logos on their doors and their tinted window rolled up. Cynical expats flicked their ashes at the ~$60,000 vehicles and joked sardonically about the pitiful trickle down.

  6. dearieme says:

    I don’t see how the government and people of mainland China can reasonably expect to be exempt from the NYT’s policy of telling lies.

  7. This article will be appreciated by many people. In truth, the Chinese government has, from the beginning, taken extraordinary measures in addition to, and long before the quarantine. The government has also offered many forms of financial and other assistance to small businesses that have been hurt by the virus, including tax deferments and rent reduction or elimination.

    They assembled two new modular hospitals of 25,000 square meters each, in less than ten days, with 16,000 men working around the clock. These hospitals are fully-equipped with every possible medical appliance as well as negative air pressure and dedicated electrical supply.

    One curiosity is that this virus appears to be Chinese-specific. I can find no confirmed record of Caucasians or others being infected. It is true that a few Japanese have apparently contracted the infection, but they are genetically similar to Chinese in many ways.

    It was similar with the SARS virus, that only ethnic Chinese were infected, along with a few Vietnamese who are again genetically similar.

    It is maddening that all of the Western media steadfastly avoid stating the ethnic origin of those infected outside China. We are told of infections in Thailand, Canada, Japan, the US, Germany, and so on, leading us to believe those infections are of natives to those countries. But they aren’t. They appear to be all Chinese so far.

    It is like pulling teeth to learn the facts. As one example, the US media tell us that “An American” died of the virus in Wuhan. I tracked down this one, and the victim was a 60+ year-old Chinese woman with US citizenship.

    • Agree: Jus' Sayin'..., Alfred
    • Replies: @Thomasina
  8. joe2.5 says:
    @utu

    … start asking for help

    You can’t be serious. Start asking for help, who from? The Keystone Kops of the US? There were a couple of hints in the article to indicate how incompetent the US is, not nearly doing justice to the cosmic scale of our greedy malfeasance. The timeline of the WHO “response” was summarized in the article, and there were a few hints at the unheard-of level of Chinese preparedness and efficiency.

  9. @dearieme

    Indeed. I would instinctively believe anything said by the Chinese communists over the new York Times, and the pronouncements of Cthulhu himself over the CFR/ FP. Not even kidding.

    • Replies: @sally
  10. d dan says:
    @utu

    “However, China is not forthcoming and not showing the full scope of what is happening. It is typical for any authoritarian system that perceives openness as weakness. If China wants to change the tone of the narrative it must shows its weakness and vulnerability and start asking for help.”

    If you (or anyone) want to help, go ahead to send in your donation or volunteer to help in Wuhan/China, like what many people from many countries (including Russia, Japan, Iran…) have already done. Why do you need to wait for China to “start asking for help”? Oh, yes, except to show your superiority or to humiliate them at their difficult time? Or maybe you are not really interested to help?

    Wait, silly me. Reading your post again, you are not talking about help in donation, medical help or bio research, but you want to help China in those areas you THINK China needs help, like not being “authoritarian” or “openness”, or perhaps “freedom” of this or “freedom” of that. Those are the types of help China should ask.

    Caught another hypocrite schadenfreunde.

    • Troll: Tusk
    • Replies: @thetruth
  11. d dan says:
    @Tusk

    “It seems both sides of the China debate think it’s a bioweapon… As for me I’ll leave the origin of this to those who care…”

    Right, you don’t care about whether one nuclear superpower attacks another or not (or about WW3?), but you care enough to be among the first to post your usual anti-China creeds in this article, as well as over several other threads with comments after comments of hatred against anything Chinese…., at a time of their national crisis and mourning. Got it.

    “…share some funny clips…”

    Any decent people who watch this video will consider this as “sad”, “tough”, “difficult” or use of other adjective like “cruel”, “scary”, etc. Only a depraved person will call this “funny”, as in “amusing”, “entertaining”, or “make-you-laugh”.

    Or maybe you are just a normal person, but would like to hide your anti-China feeling by calling it a “funny” video? To project image of neutrality?

    • Agree: Tom Welsh
    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  12. Tusk says:

    Right, you don’t care about whether one nuclear superpower attacks another or not

    Proof this is a bioweapon? I was laughing that this author implies Westerners are crackpots because they think China unleashed a bioweapon on its own people, whereas pro-China shills are out here saying it’s a US bioweapon. Pot, kettle, and all the rest.

    your usual anti-China creeds

    And you are here with your usual pro-China creeds. Same old same old.

    Only a depraved person will call this “funny”

    It is funny, because while people say China is handling this fine, it isn’t a big deal, don’t worry about it, China is the best, etc etc, they’re welding people into their homes and violently restraining people for them to be carried away. It’s ironic, therefore funny.

    would like to hide your anti-China feeling…To project image of neutrality?

    I have no stake in China. It can go up or down and it has a marginal effect on me. What I do have is an aversion to China shilling. Unlike most articles on this website which are critical of systems, peoples, and states that have negative influences, every China article is just “China GOOD!” and people crying that everyone is too mean to Chinese people. As dearieme says at #6 China should stop pretending it’s unfairly treated by the Western Press when nearly everyone is treated badly by their deceptive practices. You’re not being singled out, that’s their standard operating procedure.

    Would be great to see some Chinese people on here criticising their Government the same way Americans do, but that might land them in jail over there so the relentless shilling must continue.

  13. ivan says:

    The Chicoms made matters worse by their WW2 style military blockades. Now naturally given that the Chinese people know what the CCP is capable of they react with not unfounded fear and panicked anger. What the Chicoms are being taught is the limit of controllability . No matter much how much data they collect in the behaviour modification databases God who is in charge is the greater.

  14. ivan says:

    The Chinese are definitely more susceptible to this virus than others. The question is why? Apart from genetic factors, the possibility that prior vaccination played a role in inadvertently increasing their vulnerability cannot be ruled out. This may account for the cytokinesis expression – basically an overreaction to the virus that ends up destroying the infected person himself. Chicoms are too clever by half. They should learn some humility.

    • Replies: @Ber
    , @Kim
    , @SBaker
  15. Anonymous[291] • Disclaimer says:

    The neocons are definitely smelling blood. Never let a crisis go to waste. CIA is rubbing their hands in glee thinking of this as their one big chance to finally take down the CCP. Tom Cotton the Israel loving neocon dog is “demanding” that the WH investigate this as a bioweapon manufactured by China.

    Why would China publish the genetic blueprint for the whole world to analyze so quickly if they had manufactured this virus? Stupid.

    The “sky is always falling” Zerohedge is now an all-Coronavirus-all-the-time website. Must be getting the most clicks on those daily hit pieces on China, from accusations of fake reporting(they’re one to talk) to HIV tainted bioweapon virus to Coronavirus surviving on surfaces for 9 days. When incompetent officials were fired it was derided as “scapegoating”. Strangely that claim of HIV has now disappeared, never repeated, I guess it’s been debunked?

    Of course, China is not helping things by not immediately stopping all outbound flights. So now all Asian looking people the world over are treated like pariahs, and everyone hates China.

    If and when such an outbreak occurs in the US, I’m not at all sure our authorities would be responding with half the efficiency as China did. No one would have the balls to quarantine a city like NYC. Although I wish we already have such a quarantine in place, at all times. NYC sucks.

    • Replies: @Poco
  16. Biff says:
    @Tusk

    Would be great to see some Chinese people on here criticising their Government the same way Americans do, but that might land them in jail

    It’s interesting that you would think like this? What made you do it?

  17. Anonymous[291] • Disclaimer says:

    In the end this is just more evidence that globalization sucks. All the air travels are bringing viruses like this everywhere. People need to just stick to where they are and stop flying everywhere. It also shows us how exposed the US is to China. There are freaking China people everywhere, all over the country, on every freaking college campus, in every state, every city big and small. Even all the “US Citizen” evacuees from Wuhan are mostly Chinese citizens with a US passport. It’s time to send these people packing, every single last one of them. The US needs a 40 year moratorium on all immigration, and no more foreign students either. Be gone!

    • Replies: @strocky
    , @Commentator Mike
  18. ivan says:

    The behaviour of the Chicoms, all point to some malignant effect from their bioweapons programme.

  19. d dan says:

    Thank you to the author and Ron Unz for this excellent article, laying out all the facts and debunking most of the fake news and biased charges against China. To add an additional point to the already well supported thesis of the article, it is reported [1] that more than a decade after the outbreak of H1N1 in US, and half-way around the world, Taiwan has 56 deaths due to H1N1 in the last 3 months. This number is 3 time more than the TOTAL number of people INFECTED with the corona virus in Taiwan. The harm of H1N1 clearly dwarfed corona virus by many orders of magnitude. Yet no country has ever talked about travel ban to US, or complained about US for incompetence, slowed response, cover up, …, etc. No American was questioned or quarantined outside US. The hypocrisy and double standards are simply breathtaking.

    As for the Dr Li’s case, any objective person will agree that it is a very tough decision for the local Chinese government. Hindsight shows that they handled it fairly and competently. This article explains and provides the timeline to support this conclusion. Furthermore, the Beijing government already dispatched an investigation team to Wuhan specifically for this case. If wrong doers (which I doubt any) were found, they certainly will be punished.

    Reader may want to view this video [2] to gain further understanding of the situation at that time. Nathan Rich argues that the government actually is more right than they are claiming. In other words, out of respect for Dr Li or for whatever reason, the government is retracting its reprimand against Dr Li, although it was a right decision to reprimand. It is like a familiar dilemma: will you allow a person to shout “fire” in a crowded cinema, even though the person has reason to believe there is a fire?

    This case, plus thousands of many other difficult problems are what the Chinese government and its people are furiously working on everyday. As of now, thousands of brave, selfless and dedicated doctors, nurses, workers and volunteers are risking their lives and their family’s lives, working 24/7 with countless sleepless to fight the disease to help to make it safer than the H1N1. That will ultimately benefit the whole world.

    But haters will continue to hate and trolls will continue to troll. Let facts be damned while China is, as the author puts it, “setting new, groundbreaking standards and practices.”

    Or like WHO states it, “The speed with which China detected the outbreak, isolated the virus, sequenced the genome and shared it with WHO and the world are very impressive, and beyond words. So is China’s commitment to transparency and to supporting other countries. In many ways, China is actually setting a new standard for outbreak response. It’s not an exaggeration.”

    [1] https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3048798/coronavirus-taiwan-deadly-virus-h1n1-flu

    [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-Fy80yHYQo

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  20. Biff says:
    @Anonymous

    A White American woman was infected and is in a hospital in Tokyo. She says she just had a mild cough and felt fine,

    Yea, I’m not afraid of the virus at all – I’m afraid of the governments reaction to the virus.

    I wasn’t afraid of the 9/11 event – I was afraid of the governments reaction to the event(it was the first thing to pop into my head).

    I’m not afraid of a catastrophic financial melt down – I’m afraid of the governments reaction to it.

    I’m not afraid of mass anarchy – I’m afraid of the governments reaction(more anarchy in itself).

    Heck, I’m not all too afraid of a nuclear war – I’m afraid of the governments reaction to it…

    • Replies: @Sir Launcelot Canning
  21. Mike-SMO says:

    The author makes a pretty good rant, however, the doctor in question was discussion a disease outbreak with his “collegues”. Are you suggesting that only political hacks are fit to discuss the medical problem in their well appointed offices?

    I love the scrap about the poor White woman held in a hospital without treatment in Japan, after all, she has a virus which may only be dangerous to “Asians”. There is no specific treatment for a viral infection, just supportive care and quarantine. I don’t know, and probably no one knows if the bug is lethal to the “Asians” living in Japan. If the Japanese were not being polite, she might have been “isolated” in an unused cargo container. If she, indeed, tested positive for the Corona Virus, she should, indeed, be locked away. She is as big a danger as the nurse who returned from the Ebola hot zone and refused quarantine, because she didn’t want to and felt OK. She apparently forgot all her training about “contageous” and “incubation period”. The twit in Japan apparently got her education in a modern academy where reality is whatever you want it to be.

    Free Speach is messy and the New York Times is a whore house. On the other hand, the Chinese people can see the government failures from the street level; an insufficient supply of test kits, insufficient hospital facilities, no provision for even primitive quarantine or even bed-on-the-floor custodial care. The Chinese government has locked down access to real information so fear will prevail. Silence does not inspire calm cooperation and compliance. Silence just “proves” that the idiots in charge don’t have a clue. Silence generates panic.

    Suspicion about Corona being a bio-weapon is inevitable. In the silence from the government, worried people will focus on that possibility. Even if this was an accidental weapons release, it will not matter during the initial infection period as long as the populace sees that the government is taking reasonable action. But government silence gives them nothing else except rumor. Since its founding, the Chinese government has told the people what to believe and what to do. Silence now brings out the worst images of incompetence, malice, and cowardice. The commissars have a lot to learn.

    • Replies: @Biff
  22. Fake Americans and woke Leftists telling Whites how we must think about Asian, Hispanic, Black and Jewish homelands are the greatest curse America faces today. The author cannot purchase a one-way ticket back to Korea fast enough. And while he’s at it, he should get the same deal for the entire editorial collective of The Jew York Times.

    How China deals with its internal affairs is none of my business. I’m not Chinese. And how Americans deal with theirs is not the business of paper Americans.

  23. Alfred says:
    @Tusk

    I have no stake in China. It can go up or down and it has a marginal effect on me.

    Thank you for letting us know your feelings about one of the world’s ancient civilisations that has managed to resurrect itself – despite all the odds.

    Much of the illusionary wealth of the USA (I guess that is where you are from) is based on Chinese sweat and labour. If they go down, expect the USA to be close behind them. In fact, they are a far more resilient and homogeneous society than your own. They will recover much more quickly.

  24. idealogus says:

    Funny how for New York Times any chinese whistleblowers is a hero to the human kind and any american whistleblowers (Manning, Snowden etc) are traitors to the human kind. Obvious double standars I guess.

  25. Yes, yes, only white people can be totalitarian, every other race on the planet gets a pass. Also don’t forget to mention that only whites can be racist, because if they’re not worshiping at the altar of diversity then what other conclusion can be drawn? Then to round out your little diatribe, engage in tu quoque anecdotes to divert attention from real Chinese transgressions.

    Meanwhile major Chinese cities are in lockdown, while heavy-handed police tactics are welding people into their apartments, or dragging them out of their homes to makeshift ‘hospitals’ where they are sure to get infected even if they weren’t before. And regarding Chinese competence, this virus shows every indication of being genned up for whatever reason at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, then being released either via a lab animal or a lab worker. China, hoist with your own petard.

  26. El Dato says:
    @Tusk

    For me, anyone who says this is a bioweapon is immediately shunted to the cookie corner, and I hope the mofo doesn’t emerge from there fast.

    I makes me so angry that know-nothings dump effluvium onto the Internet with nary a thought nor any basic knowledge.

    It’s ok if it’s on Twitter, with is a craphole of mental decay in any case, but articles should be properly constructed and sourced or STFU.

  27. d dan says:
    @Tusk

    “Proof this is a bioweapon?”

    I don’t have a proof. But I care a lot whether this is true or not. It is too important for every Americans and every Chinese citizens, and in fact, every person on this planet.

    “you are here with your usual pro-China creeds”

    I don’t deny that. I love China, it is a great country with great people, and I think China and US should be best friend. The majority of people in both countries and the world deserve to live in peace and love with each other. But what is your reason for hating China? What is your justifications for bashing China, comments after comments?

    “…while people say China is handling this fine…”

    Anyone who is objective and read through all facts presented will agree China is handling this fine.But nobody is saying China is perfect.

    “they’re welding people into their homes and violently restraining people for them to be carried away. “

    Yes, it is a legitimate issue to debate whether this is the right thing to do. And I can immediately see both sides of the arguments, do you? It is possible that the government is right or wrong. But why does this negate the statement that China is handling the overall situation very well? Do you already have overwhelming argument and evidences that Chinese government is wrong on this particular case? Do you know the detail of this incident? Do you know how did the process go? Do you know how many incidents like this happens? Do you…. OK, never mind, I know your answers. But to support your next statement, you already conclude that Chinese government is wrong in this case, and therefore it shows that they are not doing fine.

    “It’s ironic, therefore funny.”

    No, it is neither. It is a difficult decision for a difficult situation. And I have nothing but full sympathy for the person(s) who has to make the decision and the lady. I believe that will be the same reaction from any decent people. It reveals of your schadenfreunde when you find it ironic and funny.

    “I have no stake in China.”

    In real life, that may be true. But psychologically, you posses a pathologically unbalanced feeling of China and Chinese people.

    “China should stop pretending it’s unfairly treated by the Western Press when nearly everyone is treated badly by their deceptive practices. “

    If you are honest, you should know you are lying through your teeth. I don’t have to go any further than the immediate issue at hand: just look at how they reported H1N1 in 2009 versus the corona virus in 2020. (oh, yes, you don’t remember much about how they report H1N1 in 2009?) The amount of bias and prejudice against China and Chinese people can fill up the whole Library of Congress.

    “Would be great to see some Chinese people on here criticising their Government the same way Americans do”

    Firstly, what does this matter do you? Why would it be “great” for you since you have “no stake in China”. Just to satisfy your perverted hatred? Secondly, have it even come to you that Chinese government is doing very well compare with every government in the history of mankind, like lifting 1 billion people out of poverty? And that majority of Chinese do support their government? And finally, of course, you won’t know there are Chinese that criticize their government. And they are well and alive. For example, there are criticisms of handling of Dr Li’s case, and the Chinese government responded, retracted its reprimand for Dr Li, and sent an investigation team to Wuhan. Even in Unz, you don’t know the ethnicity of the commenters. Some anti-China ones could be Chinese, and some pro-China ones aren’t. So, you are just making up yet another ignorant anti-Chinese insinuation on the fly.

    • Replies: @Kim
  28. First,

    China build Huoshenshan Hospital in Wuhan in 10 days is not impressive or surprise thing to me. China have done very good jobs to fight the Coronavirus, of course. The reason why the fast speed does not impress or be surprise me because:

    1. Huoshenshan Hospital is Fabricated Hospital. Other Western countries can do the same thing like what China have done if they really want to do (no corruption, of course). Let watch some videos on building prefab structures:

    Pre-cast tech: Delivering 2BHK homes in 24 hours

    Modular Home from Start to Finish

    Prefab House Kits – What to Expect

    Prefabricated Wall Panels

    Prefabricated building Systems / Montažni objekti

    2. According to the news:

    Hero Chinese whistle-blower doctor who was punished for sounding the alarm over coronavirus DIES from it (I don’t think China Government kill Li Wenliang, of course):
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7974593/Coronavirus-whistle-blower-dies-deadly-disease-catching-patient.html

    China had hide the information about the Coronavirus since the December 30th, 2019. That mean they already finished many bureaucracy processes and prepared money to build Huoshenshan. So this is reason why they build the hospital so quickly.

    In my country Vietnam, many structure was build slowly and some of them are not finished in 10 years because the builder does not have money. When the money come, workers build the structures so quickly.

    I usually avoid using MSM news like CNN, Fox, BBC, etc. but this CNN new about Wuhan hospital just confirm what I said about China ‘act big talk big’ and it is pretty reasonable to me:

    How to design a hospital that’s built in days, by someone who’s done it before
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/07/asia/wuhan-coronavirus-hospital-design-intl-hnk/index.html

    Next,

    China also lied about their ‘rapid 15 minutes coronavirus test’. Here is the true rapid test:

    Two New Rapid Coronavirus Tests Could Play Key Role in Efforts to Contain Growing Epidemic
    https://www.benzinga.com/pressreleases/20/01/n15232375/two-new-rapid-coronavirus-tests-could-play-key-role-in-efforts-to-contain-growing-epidemic

    Novacyt S.A.: Launch of Novel Coronavirus Test
    https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20200130005908/en/Novacyt-S.A.%C2%A0Launch-Coronavirus-Test

    Finally,

    Coronavirus is worse one by one:

    Black Swan Updates and Observations
    https://www.winterwatch.net/2020/02/black-swan-updates-and-observations/

    In conclusion, China ‘act big talk big’, ‘save the face’ and liars is used to tricked people (especially the inferiority complex ones) to believe China is unique like the God or the Deity.

  29. Tom Welsh says:
    @Tusk

    “It seems both sides of the China debate think it’s a bioweapon, with this “G-News” saying it’s a Chinese one, and “Godfree Roberts” calling it an American one”.

    Perhaps we could get a clue if we consider against whom it was deployed.

    • Agree: Ber
    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
  30. Tom Welsh says:
    @dearieme

    Especially since the USA’s owners and rulers are currently terrified of China’s huge success.

  31. Tom Welsh says:
    @Tusk

    “I was laughing that this author implies Westerners are crackpots because they think China unleashed a bioweapon on its own people, whereas pro-China shills are out here saying it’s a US bioweapon”.

    There is a simple way of deciding which government is most likely to have designed, created and unleashed a bioweapon.

    The coronavirus has killed nearly 1,000 people so far – most of them Chinese. There is also speculation that the coronavirus attacks Chinese people preferentially, or is more likely to harm and kill them.

    If person A and person B have guns, and suddenly person B is shot and killed, I find it more likely that person A is responsible.

    Moreover, the US government has lots of form, going back over a century, for using bioweapons. (Although if one really wanted to dig down, one could point to the blankets infected with smallpox and other diseases that the “pioneers” used to rid themselves of “surplus” Native Americans).

    • Replies: @Thomasina
    , @Adûnâi
  32. Could we learn a bit more about the mysterious “KJ Noh” ? Maybe a chinese fearing something for himself if he is too outspoken ? But in the same time he praises chinese authorities as being “effective and consciensous”. So he shouldn’t worry !? Not logical…
    Anyway, the transparency of UNZ is a force. We know who are Giraldi, Buchanan, PCR etc…they have presented themselves. That is a condition to get traction on the internet.
    About China and the US, something little remembered dating from dating back to the times of Hu Jintao : The western private banking / “wealth management” / Rotschild… etc tried to corrupt the red chinese communist/capitalist apparatchiks (or their children, amateurs of sports cars and beautifull girls) to blackmail them and increase their power over China probably . But it didn’t work. The bankers had done the same in Europe in the XVIII/ XIX th century with the princes… The chinese were aware of that and were waiting club in hand.
    Seems the “US” will try anything to dominate China. Computer back doors. Missed (?). Internet giants. Missed. Private banking. Missed. Ouighour insurgency ( kind of Soros style). Missed…
    Virus ?

  33. Thomasina says:
    @Ayatollah Smith

    I think the Chinese government has done all it can, and more. As the author said, you never want to panic people if it’s unnecessary, but then you don’t want to act too late either. It’s always a hard call.

    Many people have died, most of them being elderly or those with compromised immune systems, although it is concerning to hear that the young doctor passed away.

    There are seven zoonotic (passed from animals to humans) viruses, four of which are just a common cold, and the other three are SARS, MERS and this new corona virus. SARS is only contagious when you have symptoms and I think it was only contagious through droplets (such as coughing and sneezing), but this new virus apparently is contagious via airborne transmission and while people are asymptomatic. That is scary.

    China was and is probably getting severe pressure applied to it by other countries for economic reasons. Could be why they didn’t shut everything down earlier. Economics and money rule the world! As the West moved all the manufacturing jobs over to China, they are now learning what a stupid move that was; they are dependent on a country thousands of miles away. The Western importers would have applied a lot on pressure on China to keep the supply lines open.

    As for only Chinese people getting sick, it could be that Europeans have some sort of immunity. I guess time will tell. That is, if we ever get the truth.

    I say good luck to China. I hope the worst is over.

  34. @utu

    China is not forthcoming and not showing the full scope of what is happening.

    As if the Jew York Times is.

    • Replies: @bandolero
  35. eah says:

    Who is K.J. Noh? — this is the only piece by the author on unz.com, and no info is given — ?

    The tone of this article is rather hysterical (“toxic, racist disinformation”); also the author does not really seem to understand the common definition of the term whistleblower:

    He didn’t notify the Chinese CDC or any public health organ. He did not notify the hospital authorities.

    Knowing they are vested interests, it’s expected that a whistleblower may not normally notify “authorities”, suspecting/knowing they won’t do anything, e.g. due to their fear of being held responsible and/or having to take the blame for the problem.

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @Wizard of Oz
  36. unz.com blogsite is a wonder… How does intense suspicion of Jewish tribal interests, somehow correlate with PRC Sinophilia?

    • LOL: eah
    • Replies: @Pat Kittle
    , @Anon
  37. Thomasina says:
    @Tom Welsh

    You could be right, Tom, but I doubt it in this case. Years ago I watched an interesting program where a doctor set out to discover why certain people never got AIDS, even though, because of their lifestyle, they should have gotten it.

    Tracing back into ancestral lines, he eventually discovered that if your ancestors (I think it had to be from both parental lines, but I could be wrong) had survived the Black Death, this appeared to provide immunity.

    So it could be that this virus fits into the Chinese, but some other illness might affect us and bypass the Chinese altogether. We’ll have to wait and see.

  38. As expected, Amerikastani warmongering media vermin are using the coronavirus as a tool to smear China. It would have been surprising had it not done so, being Amerikastani warmongering scum media.

  39. Realist says:
    @Tusk

    As for me I’ll leave the origin of this to those who care, but I will on the otherhand share some funny clips from the chaos:

    Yeah, it’s always a sidesplitter when cops break the neck of an innocent woman.

  40. @Tom Welsh

    The idea that the Chinese government would use a bio-weapon against its own people is absurd. The financial loss of such an endeavor alone would be catastrophic. IF this is a bio-weapon then a foreign nation would be more suspect. Especially a foreign nation that is jealous of China’s economic success. Such a nation would try to smuggle a virus into China itself, making it appear that Chinese “incompetence” is the cause of its spreading. Making that virus race-specific to Chinese only would also make sense. Which nation fits the bill? Which nation is rapidly losing its economic dominance of the world to China? Which nation has time and again been utterly immoral in its dealing with its perceived “enemies”?

    • Replies: @Thomasina
    , @awry
    , @FvS
  41. Ber says:
    @ivan

    “…the possibility that prior vaccination played a role in inadvertently increasing their vulnerability cannot be ruled out…”

    Good heavens! Got to tell everyone not to take flu shots again as it is going the same way making you sicker, more susceptible and finally causing death. Big Pharmas be damned !

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @anonymous
  42. I think this article is based on a false assumption that people care about or even read the NY Times.

  43. This piece is indicative of the press for daily UNZ production, which can produce works that should have been quarantined/ snipped and left on the editor’s floor so to speak.

  44. Thomasina says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    China is not doing well financially either; terrible debt. Although I don’t think this was caused by a bioweapon, it would make just as much sense for China to use it. That way it gets to blame its downfall on the virus.

  45. Kim says:
    @ivan

    The Chinese are definitely more susceptible to this virus than others. The question is why?

    Dirty buggers never wash their hands after they go to the toilet. Never wash their hands after they pick their noses. Never wash their hands after using public doorknobs or computer mouses. Never wash their hands when they prepare or serve food. They simply never wash their hands.

    Long time China resident.

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @ivan
  46. Biff says:
    @Mike-SMO

    Silence does not inspire calm cooperation and compliance. Silence just “proves” that the idiots in charge don’t have a clue. Silence generates panic.

    Evidently you just weren’t listening.. The evidence was laid out.. Try paying attention next time…

  47. @Monotonous Languor

    You wonder:

    “unz.com blogsite is a wonder… How does intense suspicion of Jewish tribal interests, somehow correlate with PRC Sinophilia?”

    If you read the article you’d know it’s the Jew York Times that’s doing the hatchet job.

  48. Kim says:
    @d dan

    Secondly, have it even come to you that Chinese government is doing very well compare with every government in the history of mankind, like lifting 1 billion people out of poverty?

    First, of course, they had to put those people into poverty. I mean, before they could “lift them out”.

    And to a large extent “lifting them out” simply meant stopping doing most of the things that they had pledged that they would do when they came to power back in 1949 – and that they then spent the next roughly 40 years doing at the cost of millions of deaths, misery and destroyed lives.

    So “lifting China out of poverty” essentially meant stopping hitting themselves on the head with a hammer and then claiming to have found the cure for headaches.

    Very impressive, that Chinese government.

  49. Tom Welsh says:

    “I was laughing that this author implies Westerners are crackpots because they think China unleashed a bioweapon on its own people, whereas pro-China shills are out here saying it’s a US bioweapon”.

    I am delighted to award you the prize for “most blatant poisoning of the well” on this thread.

    • Replies: @Tusk
    , @Anon
  50. funny…here in Hong Kong we despise mainlanders and want them to leave.

    Sino shoe shiners should move to the mainland. It’s just that simple.

    p.s. – donate to a Chinese charity at your own peril: locals up there don’t trust them to pass along the funds or medical gear!

    • Troll: d dan
  51. Biff says:
    @eah

    You’ve just entered shit-list-extradinaire for dragging Tom Cotton into the thread.

  52. awry says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    We still don’t know how lethal it is to non-Asians, given the small number of known non-Asian infected. This epidemic is a slow-moving tranwreck we cannot tell for sure yet what the situation will be next month or after three months. Worst case scenario is that the majority of the world will get infected with it, and tens of millions will die at least. Or hundreds of millions, the spanish flu got to over 100 million according to some estimates. With a lot smaller world population. I think it is not far fetched to anticipate the novel coronavirus’ final death toll close to one billion eventually. Maybe there will be a working vaccine at some point, but it will be too late, not earlier than 1.5 years. As I said, it is happening in relatively slow motion yet. The Titanic hit the iceberg, but the band is still playing, the passangers are still dancing.
    Or maybe it will flame out with not big number of fatalities outside China but that would be incredibly lucky. The Chinese are not locking down themselves for nothing. The government tries to avoid panic and collapse, so it curtails the spread of information, totally understandably.

  53. China is an enemy of the United States. It is spending billions to influence our perfessers, rather amusing since they’re also communists.

    If Chinese wish to be hated less, they should stop eating dogs and cats and grinding endangered animals into dick pills.

    • Agree: Tusk
    • Troll: d dan
  54. Anonymous[286] • Disclaimer says:
    @dearieme

    Did you read the NYT’s balanced exposé of Israel’s bio weapons lab for comparison that, according to Stephen Lendman, is working on genocidal, DNA-targeted viruses—and has tested them with almost indescribably horrific effects on South African blacks and ME Arabs? No, neither did I.

    What gives the American-hating, kosher NYT/MSM credibility isn’t so much the left that subscribes or watches MSNBC, but the captive right such as Fox News, Conservatism Inc, and the Republican Party whose role is responding with empty handwringing and crocodile tears to ensure nothing ever happens.

    A look at the donors of the likes of McConnell and Graham provides all the evidence anyone should need that Republican fecklessness is paid-for theater and Hastert-style homosexual kompromat the sine qua non of selection behind closed doors for Republican party leadership.

  55. Aidan Q says:
    @Tusk

    pro-China shills are out here saying it’s a US bioweapon. Pot, kettle, and all the rest.

    I worked in national security investigations and carefully read the 30-page indictment of Charles Lieber. The means, manner, and timing of the arrest of Lieber— coupled with his specific area of expertise— has for the very time made me a “pro-China shill”.

    Your criticism has the some mocking tone as the NYT against Trump’s suggestion back in 2016-2017 that his campaign/election was being wiretapped and subverted by Deep State.

    • Thanks: Alfred
  56. Moi says:
    @utu

    So you expect full transparency from the Chinese government just like how open and honest our government is? LOL!!!

    Americans do not feel good about themselves unless they are running down another people. That’s exceptionalism for you.

  57. Perhaps you need to take a more “conspiratorial” look at the situation to understand it.
    https://medium.com/@BigPun/americans-will-probably-be-spared-the-worst-of-corona-virus-888c76909058

    • Thanks: Alfred, utu
    • Replies: @Culpepper
  58. @eah

    It’s not difficult to find out a lot about K. J. Noh’s published views by Googling. Noh doesn’t appear in Wikipedia’s list of Korean names but my guess is that he is Korean by origin.

  59. @Tusk

    The simplest “Bioweapon” from China is merely the Chinese food preferences/diet of fresh poultry and pork. Fresh chicken feet, yum! There is no wonder vile viruses emanate from this kind of animal husbandry and food handling. See Smithsonian Magazine issue from November 2017 where there was a great article re SARS, the then current bird flu outbreak together with a discussion of the 1918 pandemic that likely started in the US in Kansas (bird flyover of pig farming area spread to men who went to military training camp and then to Europe near end of WWI). The Smithsonian article discusses how the next pandemic is just a mutation away. The Corona Virus is not a surprise, it’s just another outbreak in the continuum of virus mutation from nasty food habits.

  60. Coronavirus is a DNA specific biological weapon unleashed against China in the ongoing economic war against China.

    • Agree: Johnny Walker Read
  61. onebornfree says: • Website

    Article summary:

    A rabid, foaming at the mouth defender of the Chinese totalitarian state, critiques a piece written in the CIA controlled, pro- American totalitarian state newspaper, the NYT , which had [of course!] criticized the ongoing reaction of the Chinese totalitarian government to the ongoing , possibly artificially created, coronavirus, [which may or may not have been deliberately released by either the US or Chinese government].

    <b?The basic, er, "arguement" here: My totalitarian government does things better than your totalitarian government does, nah, nah, n-nah, nah"

    It’s basically a case of one totalitarian states propaganda versus anothers, and this particular articles author believing/supporting/promoting the propaganda of his/her own particular favorite totalitarian state :China.

    But why would any rational person believe the propaganda of either “side”, when:)

    Real world fact: All GovernmentsAre Criminal Scams?

    “Because they are all ultimately funded via both direct and indirect theft [taxes], and counterfeiting [central bank monopolies], all governments are essentially, at their very cores, 100% corrupt  criminal scams which cannot be “reformed”or “improved”,simply because of their innate criminal nature.” onebornfree

    Which means: they alllie, allof the time!

    This just in!: Government “Solutions” Never Work[Because all governments are criminal scams]:

    Regardless of whether the. virus is an artificial creation or not, and regardless of whether it was deliberately released on the population by either totalitarian “side”,or not , this much is true: government “solutions” never work; therefor the government’s “solution”, or “solutions” to this particular situation [eg quarantines, vaccinations etc. to eradicate the virus], will only make the virus problem even worse than it already is.

    “Crisis’” Real Goal? Even More Control of Population, Even More Economic Centralization

    The only way this plays out will be to increase the control that the totalitarian Chinese government has over its population, which may well have been the real [secret] goal of the “Crisis” in the first place,as the Chinese ever more fascist economy has continued to “tank”over the past few years, leading to increased social unrest amongst its slaves, an unrest which may well already have caused, [and is being perceived by the fascist overlords],as a direct threat to their system of economic robbery and enslavement.

    Violent Revolution In China Is Coming!

    Of course, the further uptick in centralized power and economic enslavement that is the governments predictable reaction to this crisis will, at some point in the future, cause a violent revolution which will [hopefully] remove all of these present day Chinese totalitarian scumbags, from Xi on down, from power. I hope that day comes soon.

    And, of course the exact same violent revolution is “on the cards” in the US, as it heads down the exact same totalitarian road as China.

    And so it goes….

    Regards, onebornfree

  62. @Tom Welsh

    Is that why Mark Zuckerberg is married to a potential coronavirus carrier?

  63. Kim (49.) says:

    “First, of course, they had to put those people into poverty. I mean, before they could “lift them out”. And to a large extent “lifting them out” simply meant stopping doing most of the things that they had pledged that they would do when they came to power back in 1949 – and that they then spent the next roughly 40 years doing at the cost of millions of deaths, misery and destroyed lives.”

    Actually, ‘lifting the Chinese out of poverty’ meant removing the effects of 150 years of Jewish, British and American subjugation and destruction. It was only after Mao won the civil war and kicked all the foreigners out of China, that the country was able to begin rebuilding.

    Don’t be too quick to forget the devastation the US government and military caused in China for more than 100 years, to say nothing of it’s interference in Taiwan, Tibet and Xinjiang. You might care to investigate your own sins before condemning others. I’m sorry to say this, but you might also want to acquire some knowledge on a subject before opening your mouth.

    • Replies: @Tusk
    , @DB Cooper
  64. On the matter involving racial susceptibility to this 2019-nCov infection: A group of Chinese virologists discovered that at least some Chinese have an extremely large number of a particular kind of cell in their lungs, which relate to regulating both viral reproduction and transmission. They claimed this as the appropriate “biological background for the epidemic investigation of the 2019-nCov.”

    To my best knowledge there is only one confirmed case of a Caucasian having been infected by this virus, an Englishman, and the effects were minor and he’s been released from hospital. The virus, as with SARS, appears to be very Chinese-specific. SARS infected a small number of Vietnamese, who are genetically very similar to Chinese, and this new virus infected some Japanese who are also genetically very similar.

    Wuhan (and most other large Chinese cities) has thousands of Americans and other Caucasians, as well as of those of other ethnic backgrounds, but none of them contracted the virus. The US media took much space to tell us that “An American” died from the virus in Wuhan, but she was a 60+ year-old Chinese woman with US citizenship. And the entire Western media avoid 100% the topic of race or ethnic background in listing infections outside China. They tell us “infections have been discovered” in Vietnam, Malaysia, the US, Canada, Japan, the UK . . . but nowhere is mentioned the fact that those are all ethnic Chinese.

  65. “12/31 Chinese government informs WHO of existence of a new unknown virus; emergency symposium held on treatment; experts dispatched to investigate

    1/10 First genetic blueprint sequenced and posted of nCoV 2019 (this is a medical accomplishment)”

    Well I’m not an expert but how is it a “medical accomplishment” for it to take 10 days to sequence a DNA of a new virus? And once they had confirmed it to be a novel coronavirus, which has proven deadly and virulent in the past as in SARS, why wasn’t the public immediately informed to take all necessary precautions? Instead, a week later they proceeded to hold a 40,000 person potluck despite not knowing for a fact that the new virus was not communicable person to person.

    How is it wrong for NY Times wrong to criticize the fact that Wuhan local police penalized Dr. Li Wenliang for sharing his misgivings about the virus with his medical colleagues? That’s not racist, that’s what journalists are supposed to do: to speak out against things that need improvement, even if it ruffles a few bat hairs.

    China, with its no. 2 economy, is in the big boys’ club now. Its fair game to measure China’s actions not just against the advanced countries of the world, but with what best practice should be. If that means some hurt feelings, so be it. A lot of people around the world are being adversely affected by the global spread of this virus and that is much more important than shielding the Chinese government from unwanted or even some unwarranted criticism.

    Grow up. And I’m Asian, so don’t give me bull about yellow racism. Being called slant eyed is like being called fat. Some things in life you just live with.

  66. Poco says:
    @Anonymous

    I’ve been waiting anxiously, for years now, about the happy prospect of NYC succumbing to rising sea levels. So far, I have been disappointed. Come on people get in gear and fire up those carbon emissions. We can still make the dream come true.

  67. nsa says:

    In 1918, the murderous Woodrow Wilson and crew spread the idea that the hated Germans were responsible for starting the influenza epidemic that ended up killing over 100 million worldwide and essentially ended WW1. Later, it was proven that the epidemic started in Haskell County, Kansas, and spread around the world by the US military and civilian leadership. Something like 100,000 US troops and many millions around the world were sacrificed because the US government refused to isolate the disease at military encampments where the virulence really kicked in, instead shipping millions of infected “typhoid Mary” troops around the world to support their precious war effort. When confronted with the facts (US malfeasance went a long way in killing over 100 million), the Wilson crowd still claimed infected agents had been landed from German submarines…….in Haskell County Kansas.

  68. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    Most Americans who don’t believe it’s natural seem to believe that it’s a Chinese bioweapon

    If it’s a bioweapon, the 1% mortality rate shows it to be a dud.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @Alfred
    , @Anonymous
  69. @d dan

    Yes, I noted that the woman-being-pulled-out-of-the-car funny clip is standard operating procedure for police, world wide, when a lawful order is not followed. According to the US media, this kind of funny clip happens dozens of times a day, when evil White police officers pull innocent Blacks out of their cars.

  70. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @CanSpeccy

    But how’s this for a bioweapon theory?

    The Chinese suspected that the Bat flu thingy was a bioweapon targetting them so they stole it from the Canadian lab to research antidotes at the Wuhan lab.

    Then, either the thing simply escaped from the Wuhan lab, or alternatively, it was deliberately released, in an attenuated form, to evaluate control measures for use in in the event of a real bioweapon attack.

    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @utu
  71. Anonymous[200] • Disclaimer says:

    Why would the Chinese government develop a bioweapon that their own people are the most susceptible to, then unleash it on their own people? Just so their economy could collapse and they could weaken their own hold on the country? Are they suicidal or exceptionally stupid? Think, people, think, for Pete’s sake.

    If this is a bioweapon, which I highly doubt, I am far more inclined to believe this is by the CIA/Ziocon/Pompeo.

    I find it ironic that the same people who are most critical of the lying msm for all their lies about Trump will happily buy into the same lying media’s narrative on all foreign countries they don’t like. Those idiots on Breitbart will believe anything, totally clueless about the Ziocons who own that rag.

  72. @Biff

    All right, with that last one about not being afraid of a nuclear war you jumped the shark.

  73. Alfred says:
    @CanSpeccy

    If it’s a bioweapon, the 1% mortality rate shows it to be a dud.

    Not if it destroys the Chinese economy. Not if it destroys the trust of the Chinese people in their government.

    Get real. In a few weeks, there will be no water, food or electricity.

    Of course, the Americans are not as smart as they think. Most generic medicines are made in China or India – but almost all Indian pharmaceuticals have Chinese ingredients. But I guess that is “good news” for Merck , Pfizer and a host of others.

  74. Anonymous[200] • Disclaimer says:

    I’m glad Trump at least has the sagacity to stop all foreigners who’ve been to China in the last 14 days from coming in. But I do wonder how effective it is. A lot of countries do not stamp your passport when you leave. Some don’t even stamp it when you enter. People could easily lie. The self-quarantine also doesn’t work because there’s no way to enforce it. Asians are not the most truthful people, esp. those from China. They’re a country full of lying snakes. That’s why the government has to keep such close taps on them, to keep them honest.

    All those in the West esp. the media that screams about surveillance state have no idea what it’s like to live in or run a country with 1.4 billion people. The bigger the population, the less each life is worth. In the US and Europe, we act like every life is still priceless and must be saved at all cost. Do the math. One out of 1.4 billion is a lot smaller than 1 out of 10 million. Even in the US, 1 out of 330 million is now increasingly diminishing the worth of each life. This is the price you pay for having a large population — the loss of liberty and individuality, otherwise, you get complete chaos. The fecking idiot libtards and even conservatives who whine ceaselessly about loss of “human rights” still want to import more.

  75. @Tom Welsh

    Is that why the Zionists that run America also allow America to conduct ‘joint ventures’ with Israel, which then sells on the tech to China?

  76. DaveE says:

    So, I got a question: What happens in a few weeks, when somehow, “miraculously” the pandemic seems to disappear on its own, like SARS, Avian Flu, Ebola, Swine Flu and all the other alleged “diseases” that somehow didn’t manage to kill us all?

    I’ll answer my own question. This is just a setup for something to be blamed on China. Now that we’ve “got it” in our heads that China is a mortal enemy developing bio-weapons to exterminate us, there’s no dastardly deed that could not be blamed on the “evil Chinks.”

    I guess the good news, if any, is that the only verifiable casualties will be the credibility (if there’s any left) of the “experts” who told us to panic, at their command.

  77. I didn’t read the whole article, I stopped after the third time I read the word racist. It’s funny, the NYT, in fact the entire MSM, all of academia and entertainment constantly promote the extremist conspiracy theory of “white privilege” and you expect me to give two licks of a shit what they say about the Chinese government? It’s clear you are a full on liberal, and you think racism is the most terrible bad thing ever, meanwhile maybe being just a little racist might have saved Tessa Majors life.

    I have a question for you, if saying the phrase “chinky chinky Chinatown” three times a day could protect you from getting the Corona virus, would you do it? What is worse, dying of a horrible disease or saying “bad” words? Because it seems to me that’s all you care about, whereas being “racist” or “exclusionary” might just keep us safe from a global disaster. I am so fucking tired of this constant harping about racism racism racism. It must be so nice to live in China, where they probably never even hear that word, as compared to living in the West where it is throw up into our faces all day long.

  78. nsa (69.) says:

    “Later, it was proven that the epidemic started in Haskell County, Kansas, and spread around the world by the US military and civilian leadership. Something like 100,000 US troops and many millions around the world were sacrificed because the US government refused to isolate the disease at military encampments where the virulence really kicked in . . . When confronted with the facts . . . the Wilson crowd still claimed infected agents had been landed from German submarines…….in Haskell County Kansas.”

    nsa, is this true? Do you have any documentation to which you can refer? I would very much like to investigate this further. If you can provide sources, that would be a blessing.

    • Replies: @Alden
  79. With respect to the new coronavirus, for Mainland China, new daily infections peaked at nearly 4,000 a week ago but are now at half that, suggesting the epidemic has peaked and is now declining.

    Date: Number of Infections: Deaths: New Confirmed Infections:

    February 04 – 24,324 infections, 490 deaths – 3,886
    February 05 – 28,018 infections, 563 deaths – 3,694
    February 06 – 31,161 infections, 636 deaths – 3,143
    February 07 – 34,546 infections, 722 deaths – 3,399
    February 08 – 37,198 infections, 811 deaths – 2,656
    February 09 – 40,171 infections, 908 deaths – 3,062
    February 10 – 42,638 infections, 1,016 deaths – 2,478
    February 11 – 44,653 infections, 1,113 deaths – 2,015

    In terms of being “huge”, this virus is in real life almost inconsequential. In the US in 2017, 45 million people were infected with the flu, resulting in 61,000 deaths. And this year, around 12,000 deaths so far. But nobody even noticed, and nobody cancelled flights or restricted movement. I don’t have comparative figures for Mainland China, but there must be hundreds of thousands who die each year just from the normal flu. SARS was the same. It’s astonishing to me that the Western media have inflated this to a planetary pandemic of biblical proportions.

    It would seem that the quarantines and movement restrictions were successful.

    • Replies: @last straw
  80. d dan says:
    @Kim

    “First, of course, they had to put those people into poverty. “

    If you don’t have proof that they intentionally put those 1 billion people in poverty since 1949, then you are trollling.

    No doubt they mistakes, but you are underestimating the difficult domestic and international situation that they have to overcome in their first 30-40 years of founding.

    • Replies: @Kim
  81. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Alfred

    Get real. In a few weeks, there will be no water, food or electricity.

    You kiddding?

    No food or water due to a disease with a one percent mortality rate? This is not the black death we’re talking about.

    As for the Chinese losing trust in their own government, why?

    And especially why if the infection goes global?

    The Chinese are unlikely to see any government elsewhere in the World build a hospital in six days. It would take the government of Canada six years — that would be just to get a Federal/Provincial agreement before work could begin.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  82. d dan says:
    @Kim

    “Dirty buggers never wash their hands after they go to the toilet. Never wash their hands after they pick their noses. Never wash their hands after using public doorknobs or computer mouses. Never wash their hands when they prepare or serve food. They simply never wash their hands.”

    In my opinion, you are trolling here. You are stereotyping, you have no proof what you say is true, you can’t provide any statistic and surveys, you don’t have comparison studies with other countries/cultures/peoples, and you have no proof that these alleged Chinese behaviors, even if true, cause the spread of cornon virus in China. Further, you can’t explain why corona virus does not spread in countries that are objectively less hygienic than China (like India or some African countries). Finally, you also can’t reconcile your theory with the fact that corona virus spreads more in clean countries like Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong and (supposedly your ancestor land / motherland?) Korea, compare with India.

    So, you are clearly another easily identified anti-China troll, just like hundreds many others in Unz. Case closed.

    • Replies: @mike99588
  83. Anastasia says:

    I wish the author worked at The NY Times. Maybe we would learn something

  84. Culpepper says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    Clif High takes a look at a gloomy scenario:

    • Thanks: Johnny Walker Read
  85. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Don’t you find it strange that China is blamed among the conspiracy theorists? That China is trying to self-harm itself? What about the anti-Chinese rhetoric of Trump and Bannon in last four years? If the virus is indeed man made America should be considered as a prime suspect. And the objective is not to kill as many Chinese as possible but to create economic crisis in China, to slow them down, to demonstrate to them how vulnerable they are and most importantly to show them that America’s resolve to do any imaginable evil in unbounded.

    https://medium.com/@BigPun/americans-will-probably-be-spared-the-worst-of-corona-virus-888c76909058

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @Ber
  86. voicum says:
    @utu

    And you know that how??

    • Replies: @Desert Fox
  87. anon[191] • Disclaimer says:

    It seems that the author has laid bare the emperor and shows his nakedness for all to see. The NYT has for many years shown itself to be a rag that’s lower than the British gutter press for accuracy and objectivity. Whether the Corona virus is a bioweapon or not is hard to say, but when one looks at such things we need to ask the question, who benefits? I don’t think China has benefited one iota from this outbreak in any way you want to slice it. Does the globohomo world axis benefit? Perhaps. With the constant rioting that’s been going on in Hong Kong and China’s patience in dealing with it, one can say that it didn’t go the way the globohomo axis wanted it to go. They wanted China to invade and clamp down on the rioters with an iron heel, but China has left the Hong Kong authorities to deal with it knowing that a harsh reaction would just feed into the globohomo projection that China is the epitome of an evil empire that will crack down on any dissent in an instant. Perhaps this was the second fallback if Hong Kong didn’t go the way it was supposed to. The wild and desperate reporting about this whole corona virus event in rags such as the NYT seems to point that they weren’t ready for this event and it all happened to quickly for them to organize an intelligent response to the event, just a haphazardly cobbled together series of articles and opinions pulled from wherever they could get them.

    • Replies: @utu
  88. mike99588 says:
    @d dan

    In other SE Asian countries, PRC tourists have a nasty reputation for lots of bad habits. Sure the perception is probably weighted to the bottom half, but they don’t have the same animosity about Korean and Japanese tourists with less than perfect behavior.

    PRC needs to work on those bad habits, even for their own good.

  89. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    Don’t you find it strange that China is blamed among the conspiracy theorists? That China is trying to self-harm itself?

    China will certainly do nothing to harm the Chinese state. However, the Chinese state would surely sacrifice a few million Chinese to preserve the state. So yes, China might have release the COVID19 if, by so doing, they believed it would help preserve the state: for example, by using this rarely lethal virus to test China’s biowar defenses.

    But whether or not China released the virus, either deliberately or by accident, the spread of a possibly weaponized virus from China will be exploited by those engaged in anti-China propaganda.

    At present I see too many possible scenarios to judge any to be of high probability. Furthermore, if the initiation of this epidemic was other than accidental or natural, the true cause will likely forever remain well concealed.

    • Disagree: utu
    • Replies: @utu
    , @Anonymous
  90. Alfred says:
    @CanSpeccy

    You kiddding?

    No food or water due to a disease with a one percent mortality rate? This is not the black death we’re talking about.

    We are no longer in the Middle Ages. Things have become much more complex.
    Have you ever worked in an office or a factory? I have my doubts. 🙂

    a company in Suzhou reopened, and immediately at least one CoVid2019 case found. As a result, the company’s 200+ employees couldn’t go home and were immediately placed under quarantine.

    This Is What Happened After One Chinese Company Rushed To Reopen After The Corona-Chaos

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  91. You guys can review more videos about Coronavirus from the link below:

    • Thanks: Tusk
  92. Commies lie.
    Nooooo, noooo that could not possibly be true. How scurillous can you be, western media? Ha.

  93. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Monotonous Languor

    It might be that UNZ writers and commenters are aware that the Jewish tribe is preparing to jump to China once the tribe’s completed its destruction of America. I do know that Senator Feinstein’s husband, Richard Blum was making investments in Shanghai real estate for factories with Albert Tong of Tong & Tong as early as the late 1960s.

    The writers and commenters hope that China might be the one country able to out Jew the Jews. That’s just my opinion about the pro Chinese anti Jew UNZ position Ron UNZ has been writing about the rise of China for about 35 years now. I’m sure that accounts for the pro China articles. It’s his site.

  94. Anon[152] • Disclaimer says:

    Cov-19 is going to nail the rest of the world hard, but especially the developed West. Why? If we were living in the environment of 150 years ago, when most people lived on isolated farms, a quarantine would have worked.

    But quarantine isn’t possible in the world of the modern economy. Most jobs in the middle-class US and developed countries are service jobs. Service jobs mean you meet clients or customers every day, sometimes to the tune of a couple of hundred if you work a fast food job. Any food job, from processing to distribution, whether meat packer, grocery, or fast food or restaurant, will become a route of transmission.

    Public transport such as subways become a method of transmission. Just think of those overburdened trains in Japan or India. Schools will spread the virus like crazy. We live concentrated in cities, and we each have a string of contacts with others.

    If 1 person has the virus and spreads it to 6 people a day (this is an average-as I said, a food worker can spread it to many more), and this pattern is repeated every day, each infected person spreading it to 6 more people each day, then 1.6 million people can get it in 1 week. Its incubation period can be as long at 14 days, and it’s possible in theory to spread it to those 1.6 million in one week before they have any symptoms. Mathematically speaking, everyone in North America could be exposed to it in within 2 weeks via those 6 contacts per day. Calculate the numbers yourself and you’ll see what I mean.

    Get your affairs in order, and stock up on what you’ll need. I wouldn’t go full prepper, but get the usual stuff you need for medications, and some food and other supplies you’ll need if you’re too sick to go out shopping. Certain foods can be stored long term quite well. Vitamin C pills would be a good idea since you can’t store fresh fruit a long time.

    But be warned. If everyone who works at a grocery store is sick, that store won’t be open or available to shop from.

    Secondly, save some money. Do NOT live from paycheck to paycheck. You may be out of work if you’re being quarantined, or if you’re sick longer than your sick leave allows, or if you have to take time off work to care for sick relatives. You need a cash reserve for this. Don’t spend your tax return this year if you get one.

    The only thing good that I can say about the virus is that a 2-4% death rate is still low. But supposedly it’s possible to become reinfected with Cov-19 after you’ve had it. Cov-19 isn’t going to go away. It’ll become like the flu, rolling around every year to cull world populations. Eventually, we may develop more resistance to it.

  95. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Alfred

    Have you ever worked in an office or a factory?

    I’ve done a few things since joining the workforce over 50 years ago. Currently, I’m running a manufacturing business with a Chinese supply change.

    • Thanks: Alfred
  96. China lied their [email protected]@es off and everybody knows it. They are still lying about the numbers, big time. I’m estimating 50k dead and 300k infected.
    The WHO may be [email protected] China but that doesn’t mean the rest of us are going to cheer and join in.
    Take your lumps and stop whining about ‘racism’. Every normal person runs from disease.
    Don’t like it?
    Too bad commie.

    Now, as for the Chinese people, I wish them all the best and hope that they have a DRY spring so that this virus does as little damage as possible. Maybe their government will get its act together and start treating people in quarantine instead of it being a near death sentence. We can only hope and pray.

    I blame the Zionist’s for these outbreaks by the way. (China has been hit by swine flu and avian flu as well, suffering serious damage to their food supply. A trifecta from Schlomo.) Yes, ample evidence exists to show this is a bio-weapon and zionist elements, as per 911, were behind it. This will all come out. The world is watching much more closely than in 2001. We have all watched country after country get taken out. I don’t see Wuhan flu as an isolated event but part of an overall pattern of brutal, psychopathic manipulation.

  97. utu says:
    @anon

    The wild and desperate reporting about this whole corona virus event in rags such as the NYT seems to point that they weren’t ready for this event…

    Quite the opposite. Everything goes as planned. First they created the meme of bats, snakes and pangolins, dirty wet markets, dirty Chinese (read comments here). Blame the Chinese. Then they injected an insinuation of Chinese doing it to themselves by being inept in their virus lab work. Virus escaped form their lab. Blame the Chinese. Then when people began to wonder about potential bioweapon attack they insinuated that Chinese did it to themselves. That they stole the virus from Canada… Basically nonsense but always blaming China and Chinese.

    • Agree: Desert Fox
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  98. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ber

    Be sure and refuse diphtheria scarlet fever and polio vaccines for your children as well. Let’s bring back smallpox too!!!!!

    • Replies: @strocky
  99. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Speculations on whether American released the virus are more justified than speculations that China did it to itself.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  100. I guess some NYT lies need to be debunked point-by-point. The author did it in this case. However, every sane person already knows that lately virtually everything NYT publishes is either a blatant lie (comrade Ogilvy-style) or crumbs of truth twisted beyond recognition and weaved into a false narrative. If NYT (or CNN, or The Guardian, or WaPo, or any other outlet of their ilk) would say that 2×2=4, I’d begin doubting even that.

    • Replies: @Anon
  101. @mike99588

    Even in Singapore, which is 75% ethnic Chinese, some adverts for renting a flat have stipulations like ‘No Indians/PRC [mainland China]’

    Although I’ve only ever interacted with Westernised Chinese and mainland Chinese students, the average mainlander seems to have a bad reputation in many places that come onto contact with them often, the most common complaint is that their food eating habits are not desirable and that they cause a mess.

  102. utu says:

    “And advanced forms of biological warfare that can “target” specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool.”

    From Rebuilding America’s Defenses Project for the New American Century (PNAC).

  103. Shaman911 says:

    It’s never been the New York times!
    Always this:

    Jew York Times:

    A mouth piece of filth, lies, and Jewish Fantasies.

  104. sally says:
    @Jeff Albertson

    Agree, CIA agencies are always suspect even when they are asleep.
    But what causes that instinct.. how can the source of it be documented?

    I have a theory about the reason that the Chinese have treated a non disaster as a disaster, have impounded their people, stopped export, trade and denied their business owners dealings outside of China and denied outsiders access inside of China.

    I think it possible that the Chinese may have decided to retrench their economy, to deny trade of Chinese made goods to the west maybe even to everyone not inside of China. Mind you this is a theory, but like all theories it has a hypothesis that needs to be disproved. My version of the hypothesis derives from the observation that China is preparing for war is as follows:

    Hypothesis: China will exploit its own economy, use only its own currency, ignore external import or export trade with the outside world, and deny outsiders entry into China.

    The virus scare provides prefect cover. In the coming weeks and months let us see if we can prove this hypothesis wrong.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  105. Anonymous[129] • Disclaimer says:
    @CanSpeccy

    China will certainly do nothing to harm the Chinese state. However, the Chinese state would surely sacrifice a few million Chinese to preserve the state.

    But the Chinese state is heavily invested in promoting trade and has recently been promoting the “Belt & Road” project of trade ties and infrastructure across Eurasia. This outbreak has shut down much business and trade activity between China and other countries.

    By contrast, the American state, especially under the Trump administration, has been pushing back on and attacking Chinese trade and the “Belt & Road” project. It has been trying to get its allies and other countries to reduce their trade with China and isolate China economically.

    From the standpoint of the American state and its current foreign policy aims regarding China, this outbreak is the best thing that could have happened, while for the Chinese state it’s only bad.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  106. Anonymous[200] • Disclaimer says:
    @mike99588

    Mainland Chinese tourists are hated the world over, esp. in France, even as they eagerly bought up billions of French luxury goods each year. Last time I was in Paris, the French people I worked with, esp. this Jewish woman, talked of the Chinese tourists with utmost loathing and disdain. In the US, I know of many who really do not like these China people but say nothing out of PCness. They are easy to identify by the way they dress, their bad posture, hairstyle and behavior, always loud, rude, uncouth.

    Of course the French are born haters. I still remember those days in the 80s and 90s when they hated us “Ugly Americans”, now it’s the Ugly Chinese. But the Chinese also happen to be the most self-unaware people I know. They seem to be completely clueless about how much they are disliked outside their own country. They think all people outside China love them and their culture as much as they do. Hard to find another group of people more ill behaved, universally disliked or clueless.

  107. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnonFromTN

    You’re right. Democracy Now and NYSLIMES have never told the truth about anything. Why should we believe it’s articles about anything. And how would the NYSLIMES writers know what’s going on in China anyway?

  108. @Kim

    First, of course, they had to put those people into poverty. I mean, before they could “lift them out”.

    And to a large extent “lifting them out” simply meant stopping doing most of the things that they had pledged that they would do when they came to power back in 1949 – and that they then spent the next roughly 40 years doing at the cost of millions of deaths, misery and destroyed lives.

    So “lifting China out of poverty” essentially meant stopping hitting themselves on the head with a hammer and then claiming to have found the cure for headaches.

    Very impressive, that Chinese government.

    In 1949, when the CCP took over, 400 million Chinese were in some very dire conditions: not only with abject poverty, but also with a life expectancy that was as short as 36 years. From then on, despite the Famine during the Great Leap Foward:

    China’s growth in life expectancy at birth from 35–40 years in 1949 to 65.5 years in 1980 is among the most rapid sustained increases in documented global history.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4331212/

    The rest is history. China’s per capita GDP increased 50 fold from 1980 to 2018. Now Chinese, with a fraction of American’s per capita income, actually have a longer healthy life span than Americans.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-lifespan/china-overtakes-u-s-for-healthy-lifespan-who-data-idUSKCN1IV15L

  109. Anonymous[279] • Disclaimer says:
    @sally

    Your hypothesis is false because the Chinese are the most selfish and money hungry people after the Jews. They have no interests in making themselves poorer, only richer.

    In the completely unlikely event that it is true however, it would be great news for an anti-globohomo like me. I would love for them to close their doors to the West so the West can become more self-sufficient, but first, can we please send back all their current and former citizens now living in the West?

    • Agree: Republic
  110. @utu

    That is some might high horse you are riding. Lol. Don’t break a leg when getting off.

  111. strocky says:
    @Anonymous

    Was in Brisbane [Qld] CBD yesterday playing ”spot the Aussie”.
    Apart from a few homeless derelicts, it’s Wall to Wall Mystery Meat.

  112. Alden says:
    @Ayatollah Smith

    It’s very true that the Spanish flu began in Kansas around 1910. Some of the towns severely quarantined themselves. So the flu didn’t spread due to a small population isolated in small towns that practiced severe, extreme quarantine measures ; such as signs “ “quarantine anyone crossing the line will be shot”

    American army base Fort Leavenworth was located in Kansas. By 1916 President Woodrow Wilson and the army began to prepare for our entrance into WW1. The barracks became overcrowded. The military medics urged that windows and doors remain open day and night whatever the weather. They also advocated a crash program of building more barracks. And fewer soldiers in each barrack.

    That didn’t happen. The quartermasters just crowded more soldiers into the overcrowded barracks and refused to keep the windows open during the winters. Wilson declared war The draft began.

    The American soldiers who’d been at Fort Leavenworth Kansas brought it to Europe. The Americans Africans Indians Chinese and other soldiers brought it home when the war ended.

    It was the Spanish government health department that first realized it was a new form of flu and disastrous. Hence the term Spanish flu.

    You can probably find it via google or any search engine. I read about in the medical school library of the university where I worked. It’s common knowledge amongst historians both general and medical historians.

  113. Adûnâi says:

    A great article! I wonder why the Western media are still trying to paint China black – isn’t every single American fuming at his mouth at the mere sight of any totalitarian socialist regime? Every single YouTuber is doing their work for them. Maybe just fodder for Wikipedia…

    If this virus had only killed old people, this would have been a gift straight from the gods to China.

    Still, why had the Party not banned the consumption of wild meats by 2020?

  114. @Tusk

    China really should copy and translate stuff like this comment for the Chinese public.

    So the Chinese public would understand how much hatred there is for them out in the world. Simply for them being Chinese.

    Then they should prepared for war and to kill them all when shit hits the fan.

    Why let toxic fuckers like this live if they want to kill you for no other reason then you are Chinese?

    I really feel sorry for the Chinese.

    Remember, fight back, and having the ability to end them in a single fight will save the rest from these toxic as fuck lunatics.

    • Agree: Adûnâi
    • Replies: @Adûnâi
  115. Adûnâi says:
    @Kim

    First, of course, they had to put those people into poverty. I mean, before they could “lift them out”.

    Do you even history? Before 1949, China was in the Middle Ages. No technology, no roads, no cities, no medicine. Only bands of warlords killing one another, and the Japanese.

    Poverty was the state of all hominins from 4k BCE to 1.9k CE.

    The only argument here can be made that any government could have done the same, not just a socialist one. But that is debatable.

  116. strocky says:
    @Anon

    Be sure and refuse diphtheria scarlet fever and polio vaccines for your children as well. Let’s bring back smallpox too!!!!!

    Sick children are always sick and healthy ones aren’t.
    Why would you want to poison the healthy ones with vaccines?
    Solidarity with the sick?

  117. @Ayatollah Smith

    In terms of being “huge”, this virus is in real life almost inconsequential. In the US in 2017, 45 million people were infected with the flu, resulting in 61,000 deaths. And this year, around 12,000 deaths so far. But nobody even noticed, and nobody cancelled flights or restricted movement. I don’t have comparative figures for Mainland China, but there must be hundreds of thousands who die each year just from the normal flu. SARS was the same. It’s astonishing to me that the Western media have inflated this to a planetary pandemic of biblical proportions.

    It would seem that the quarantines and movement restrictions were successful.

    Here is the flu burden on the U.S. this season:

    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm

    Here is how the 2009 H1N1 swine flu, which started in Mexico in April, but CDC and the Obama administration did little until October, affected the U.S. and the rest of the world:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21342903

    http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2012/06/cdc-estimate-global-h1n1-pandemic-deaths-284000

    As for the coronavirus in China, quarantine and travel restrictions certainly slowed it down. But it’s too early to say if it’s really contained.

  118. Adûnâi says:
    @Tom Welsh

    “There is a simple way of deciding which government is most likely to have designed, created and unleashed a bioweapon.”

    Can you explain why Americans would ever decide to use a bioweapon “against China” if such an action would destroy the capitalist system around the world and cause a civil war in the U.S.? Are they suicidal to kill China? Or is this the best-case scenario for them? Or do they actively seek to crash the capitalist system?

    • Replies: @Kevin Barrett
  119. Anonymous[200] • Disclaimer says:

    We now know where all of China’s $400B QE to combat coronavirus ended up — stock indexes the world over, esp. that of Shanghai and Nasdaq. Very smart these Chinaman. They know that the West will have a meltdown the minute the Dow loses a few hundred points, even if it’s just a 1% drop, but keep the market up and no one will notice/care what’s really going on in China. There is now unprecedented liquidity going into stock markets around the world esp. in the US since the NYSE sets the mood for the world.

    If I could I’d short the Nasdaq right about now. In 3 months when this thing blows over China will recall their cash in a big, big way to help prop up their factories and businesses that are hard hit by this crisis, and the Nasdaq will have a serious “correction”.

  120. utu says:

    Want some entertainment read the original Q-Anon (before there was Q-Anon) of Asia:

    Israel commits suicide by declaring war on China By Benjamin Fulford
    https://benjaminfulford.net

    There is also an unprecedented campaign of censorship going on regarding the bioweapon attack on China. For example, the following paragraph was deleted from a Hong Kong-based news site: “The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of China has officially demanded that the United States explain why biohazard containers were found buried in the evacuated consulate general in Wuhan. The PRC security forces cordoned off other U.S. diplomatic missions in the country.”

    Of course, the world is not buying the story that this is a naturally occurring coronavirus. The Muslims know what is going on, as do the Russians and the Indians. So does everybody else, except a shrinking group of brainwashed sheeple in the West.

    In fact, Trump informed the Chinese that the U.S. had arrested three individuals in connection with the bioweapon attack on China, including 60-year old Dr. Charles Lieber, Harvard University Chairman of the Department of Chemistry and Chemical Biology.

    Weak signals are emerging that Wuhan was an act of war by Israel against China, using a double-agent, Dr. Charle Lieber, (who is Jewish and therefore especially susceptible to Zionist influence if not control) whose top student from China was embedded at Wuhan University of Technology where he was also a “Strategic Scientist.”

    • Replies: @Anon
  121. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ber

    It’s not about vaccines in general. It was noted back in 2003 that the Chinese were going to start giving out SARS vaccines that hadn’t been properly tested. Adverse reactions upon infection of a live virus in individuals who had been previously vaccinated against was already a known feature of coronavirus vaccines.

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn4417-china-to-give-first-sars-vaccine-to-people/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3335060/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5027702/

  122. Dannyboy says:

    Would be great to see some Chinese people on here criticising their Government the same way Americans do, but that might land them in jail over there so the relentless shilling must continue.

    Chinese “citizens” don’t have guns. Americans are armed to the teeth.

  123. Tusk says:
    @Tom Welsh

    You forget your comments #30 and #32 implying it is a bioweapon deployed against China. There is no proof this is a bioweapon. China is desperate to imply this is nothing, while responding heavy handedly, while shills here try to blame the US however they can without evidence. Any talk of bioweapons without a shred of proof is just peak delusion.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  124. clickkid says:

    The fake hysterical non-pandemic continues. Still only 2 dead outside China.

    All of those alleged to have died from the virus are claimed to have had pneumonia as far as I can ascertain. Let’s put this into the context of normal Chinese pneumonia statistics.

    In a study from 2010:

    “Pneumonia is one of the leading causes of death in adults and children in China [4]. In urban areas, pneumonia is the fourth leading cause of death, and in rural areas pneumonia is the leading cause of death [5], [6]. A recent article in the Chinese literature estimated that each year in China there are 2.5 million patients with pneumonia and that 125,000 (5%) of these patients die of pneumonia-related illness [5”

    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0011721

    So the 1100 apparent fatal cases from this outbreak would represent less than 1% of the total pneumonia deaths for China in a typical year.

  125. clickkid says:

    The US and China have different statistical methods regarding the compilation of data for the incidence of normal flu.

    https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1177725.shtml

    Snippet:

    “Analysts noted the US mortality rate looks much higher than China’s because of the two countries’ different statistical methods. The response came after some net users questioned whether the high death rate shows the ineffective control of flu in the US and how different countries should cooperate effectively to curb the new coronavirus-related disease.

    The flu epidemic in the US eased during the week of January 5-11 but remains active, with an estimated 13-18 million cases of flu illnesses documented since the start of the season, a latest report from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said.

    The agency also estimates between 6,600 and 17,000 deaths related to influenza since October 1, 2019.

    Official Chinese data of flu-caused deaths is much lower, with Chinese CDC data showing that in 2018, there were more than 700,000 cases and 144 deaths.

    But there was an epidemic in early 2019. In January 2019, the number of flu cases in the Chinese mainland reached 608,511, with 143 deaths. In the first five months of 2019 alone, the number of reported cases of influenza reached 1.77 million, exceeding the total of the past four years.

    Chinese netizens questioned why the flu death rate in China is much lower than that in the US given the overall coverage of flu vaccines in China is less than 2 percent, far lower than the rate of developed countries, including the US. Some doubted the effectiveness of the vaccines.

    “The US flu mortality rate includes cases where flu causes other illnesses to worsen and lead to death, while China only counts people who die directly from flu,” an observer who prefers to be anonymous told the Global Times.”

    Three Points:

    1. Countries often vary enormously on how the cause of death is classified.

    2. Between 6600 and 17000 flu deaths in the US since October 1st 2019 – there’s some perspective for you.

    3. These discrepancies in how countries classify flu deaths are more than big enough for this outbreak to hide in.

  126. Tusk says:
    @Ayatollah Smith

    the effects of 150 years of Jewish, British and American subjugation and destruction. It was only after Mao won the civil war and kicked all the foreigners out of China, that the country was able to begin rebuilding.

    Ha
    https://forward.com/schmooze/159051/a-jew-in-maos-china/

  127. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    Why does Israel want to cause a deadly epidemic in China? This Lieber, his colleagues and lab would have spent years developing this strain of pneumonia? Then inserted a Lieber trained agent in the Wuhan lab.

    Israel’s been selling American tech information to China for decades. Israel treats China much better than it does it’s dumb cash cow America.

    So why would the Israelis spend years and effort to send a deadly epidemic to China?

    • Replies: @JUSA
  128. Anonymous[146] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tusk

    A covert bioweapon attack is the kind of unconventional, asymmetric warfare which is very difficult to identify. It’s not like a conventional attack in which one country launches missiles at another. Or a terrorist attack involving explosives. It’s very difficult to obtain “proof” for covert biowarfare.

    What is interesting here is that besides Godfree Roberts and a few commenters here, most Americans seem to believe that it’s either natural or a Chinese bioweapon, accidentally or deliberately directed against themselves, while at the same time finding the notion that it could be a US attack completely implausible. Even right wing conspiracy theorist types who normally have zero faith and trust in the US government and believe that the US government and elites are engaged in all sorts of horrific activities and conspiracies like raping and sacrificing children seem to have trouble believing that it could be a US bioweapon.

    • Replies: @utu
  129. Anonymous[381] • Disclaimer says:
    @CanSpeccy

    A much more deadly bioweapon is a major escalation.

    If it is biowarfare, there are risks to using a much deadlier bioweapon. It can invite desperate retaliation, it could cause too much collateral damage to allies or neutrals, it could end up infecting domestically, etc. Moreover, you’d want to keep the deadlier bioweapon in reserve for use later.

    Since we are in the beginning stages of a new Cold War with China, not an open Hot War, it would have to be seen in this context of a Cold War if it is indeed a bioweapon. In a Cold War, alternative, less deadly weapons are used such as sanctions, tariffs, diplomacy, espionage, propaganda, proxy attacks, etc. A less deadly bioweapon can cause significant economic and political damage.

  130. DB Cooper says:
    @Ayatollah Smith

    “Don’t be too quick to forget the devastation the US government and military caused in China for more than 100 years, to say nothing of it’s interference in Taiwan, Tibet and Xinjiang. ”

    The US only screwed China AFTER the Communist took over. Before it was helping China against the Japs and also told Britain to stay out of Tibet. It was Britain that was fucking China for more than 100 years, not the US. China didn’t rebuild until the fucker Mao was dead. Mao colluded with Russia, the biggest land grabber of China and was still actively grabbing land from China after WWII. Russia has a mutual neutrality treaty with Japan when the Japs was invading China and only unilterally abolished the treaty two days after Japan was nuked by the US and then poured its army into the northeast to grab more land. And the fucker Mao was colluding with Russia.

    • Replies: @Pft
    , @barr
  131. utu says:
    @Anonymous

    Even right wing conspiracy theorist types who normally have zero faith and trust in the US government and believe that the US government and elites are engaged in all sorts of horrific activities and conspiracies like raping and sacrificing children seem to have trouble believing that it could be a US bioweapon.

    Exactly. Great point. People just do not realize to what extend they are enslaved by their prejudices and passions and thus their strong belief that they arrive at their conclusions by reason is patently false. So we have the right wing conspiracy theorists who see themselves as cold, sober, calculating, savvy, devoid of all illusions, even cynical and yet they can be played like little children when the right string is pulled.

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Replies: @Tusk
  132. Sean says:
    @Anonymous

    There are reports that the virus targets Asians, and does not really harm non-Asians such as this woman:

    Isn’t that just what one should expect based on the Spanish flu pandemic?

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971207000355
    Influenza has been, and continues to be, a serious threat to human life. The 1918 influenza pandemic infected nearly one quarter of the world’s population and resulted in the deaths of 100 million people. Most of the countries in the world were heavily impacted. When Spanish influenza was spreading over the globe, … Certainly India and the Philippines were affected.4 Some historians believe that 20 000 000 people may have died in India alone. What happened in China during this period? Compared with other countries, the severity of infection in China was relatively mild.

    • Replies: @nsa
  133. JUSA says:
    @Anon

    Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer. Israel is friends to no one, only money and power. China’s government, not being a “democrazy”, is not easy to manipulate since they don’t run elections. Jews want access to China’s banking system and control their central bank like they do all Western (in fact all) countries. Also you forgot Israel-USA is basically one country, JU-S-A.

  134. Tusk says:
    @utu

    Want to offer any proof utu? All I see in this thread is vague circumstantial offerings of cui bono masquerading as the ultimate proof that the US did it. If people laid out a serious argument that the US was behind it, sure, but I haven’t seen any proof that it was. So far it appears to be a disease outbreak which occurs naturally. Kind of funny that you say people are “enslaved by the prejudices” when, in the absence of any proof, everyone here is jumping to conclusions. At least Ron can say he provides reasoning and documentation that things like 9/11 aren’t what they seem, but all we have here is ideological ranting from both sides. Even the “raping and sacrificing children” crowd provides photos, backgrounds, links, and arguments, many of which are devoid here.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  135. Pft says:

    It seems logical that for a virus to take hold it would do so by evolving to exploit the host population vulnerabilities. So if a virus develops in densely populated China with a mostly homogenous genetic/epigenetic population, it would have an affinity for Chinese hosts.

    What a new virus would do in other populations, especially of those groups which are more genetically/epigenetically diverse , and less densely populated, is unknown, but it seems possible it would not spread as fast and be less severe.

    There are other environmental factors that may be at play regarding the severity. 5G, pollution, etc.

    That said, outside hubei this virus does not seem much more than a cold, and in Wuhan its more like a bad flu. I am sure seasonal pneumonia due to flu at this time of year always keeps the hospitals busy

    I ran across an article from Taipei on this years flu season and put rounded totals adjusted for Chinas population in parentheses

    “This year’s flu season has seen 914 (64,000) severe cases, but only 75 (5250) deaths — the highest number of cases with severe symptoms and the lowest mortality rate of the past five years, the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) said yesterday.

    Emergency rooms last week reported treating 82,856 patients (5,700,000) , down 19.5 percent from a week earlier, CDC doctor Lin Yung-ching said

    Despite declining figures, last week hospitals still reported 56 ( 3900) new admissions of patients aged 2 to 91 with severe influenza symptoms and the deaths of 14 (980) patients aged 23 to 90, Lin said.”

  136. Kim says:
    @d dan

    No doubt they mistakes, but you are underestimating the difficult domestic and international situation that they have to overcome in their first 30-40 years of founding.

    Ha ha, the old “mistakes were made” excuse. Well, that’s alright then, isn’t it? It was all just mistakes, comrade.

    So why weren’t those mistakes made in Taiwan? Chiang Kai Shek’s Nationalist China went straight from Taiwanese poverty to economic miracle.

    Japan went from bombed-into-the-stone-age to economic miracle.

    But Red China was different. Instead they intentionally (as you demand I prove) as official policy directed the Great Leap Forward (65 million dead), a Cultural Revolution, mass murder, famine, starvation, cannibalism, and the dislocations and indignities of the One Child Policy. And of course we might also include the insane economic and human failures of a client puppet feudalist terror state in North Korea, of Pol Pot in Cambodia, and Mugabe in Africa.

    Just a few mistakes, comrade. Not in fact an essential part of implementing communism.

    It has been obvious from the start that communism cannot create prosperity and is the enemy of freedom. It is obvious by reasoning and by observation and experience. Yet – solely out of an insane greed for power – people like Mao and Chou En Lai and Stalin too of course, intentionally plunged China into a brutal 30-year civil war.

    In doing this, the Communists CREATED the poverty that China endured through the 20s, 30, and 40s. Why? Because, as the Communists say “Every defeat is a Victory”. To make things worse, you see, makes things better. It creates class consciousness, my friend. Don’t we see the same thing happening in the USA today? We have to destroy, to take things apart brick by brick, before we can build you see. Wasn’t that the essence of the Cultural Revolution? Out with the olds? To smash them? Intentionally?

    And then, after 1949, and as I have listed above, the communists maintained and extended that poverty with stupidities ands acts of inhuman viciousness that had nothing to do with the well-being of the Chinese people and everything to do with maintaining their position as the new emperors and mandarins. Because they worship power.

    And today they are essentially the same people in charge, their families, relatives and political legatees. So we get the same power-mad politics. China’s economic miracle (a half century after Taiwan’s) has no need of mass surveillance, a “social credit” scheme, or the suppression of freedom of worship. None of these things – all of them signal features of the Chinese communist government – have been required to credit an economic miracle. Yet the insanity of Communism nonetheless created them and continues to create them today.

    But that’s okay. It is just mistakes being made.

    • Agree: Tusk
    • Replies: @d dan
    , @barr
  137. Really, really discusting! The sommet of evil!
    I can only correlate it, in terms of behaviour, with the way a certain secret service humiliated the whole population on the US, a young vulnerable nation who is learning the reality in EVIL ( Satan).
    An appropriate response is needed to the leadership (elites) of the US.

  138. @Adûnâi

    PNAC “Americans” who consider race-specific bioweapons “a politically useful tool” might be expected to do something precisely like this. Think of it as a proof-of-concept operation: “We can slam your economy, trash your reputation in the international media, and let you know that if you continue trying to rise to #1 power status we could hit you with something vastly worse.”

    The neocons around Trump and their friends in the Axis of Kissinger (that phrase pretty well describes the 9/11 perps) are dedicated to stopping the rise of China by any means necessary. They are using Trump as “Mr. Unpredictable”—and murdering Soleimani, launching proof-of-concept biowar on China, etc. are predictably unpredictable.

    Back in summer 2016 Kissinger was bloviating about how strategically wonderful it would be to have Trump as their front man. It’s the new version of the Nixon “madman theory.”

    Edward Luttwak—who has repeatedly demanded that China surrender and give up its #1 power aspirations, and whose Coup d’Etat was used as a manual by the 9/11 perps—has been very upfront about all this:

    “No,” said Luttwak, “strategy is about looking for turning points. Politics is too predictable. Look at Hillary. She is an empty carapace with ambition rattling inside. You can predict everything she does. Strategy is about being unpredictable.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/09/edward-luttwak-machiavelli-of-maryland

    That’s why they engineered the Trump coup d’état in the first place.

    • Replies: @ivan
  139. Anonymous[243] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    A story that’s been promoted by the US Customs & Border Protection (CBP) and US media outlets over the past few days is the interception of a package of dead birds in the luggage of a passenger flying from Beijing. The birds were in pet food packaging, and the passenger claimed it was cat food, but the CBP and media stories have been implying that they were merely “disguised” as pet food and that they may have been brought over to spread avian flu or something.

    https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/local-media-release/dulles-cbp-intercepts-dead-birds-passenger-baggage-china

    This is despite the fact that there are Americans who feed their cats the same dead birds and that American websites like http://www.rodentpro.com sell them:

    • Replies: @Tusk
  140. Pft says:
    @DB Cooper

    The US withholding aid to KMT as Stalin was sending arms to Mao played a huge role in the Communist takeover.

    The US saved Mao by recognizing China and turning its back on Taiwan. They then gave Communist China MFN every year, something they did for no other Communist country ever, allowing trade and investments to make China what it is today.

    Basically one may say Communist China was Made in the USA. Indeed, one may also say the only winner of WWII was Communism, as the Soviets were also Made in USA. Stalin used US technology to build its industry, with the help of US companies and US labor (fleeing the depression), and FDR recognized The Soviets in 1933, allowing for trade and financing which Stalin used to build up his military, and then gave lend lease to Stalin as our ally despite his earlier invasion of Poland and Finland.

    Curious, the war with Japan was supposedly caused by sanctions on Japan imposed in defense of China, and with Germany the war was supposedly fought for Poland. Yet Poland and China ended up under Communist Control after “we won” the wars. Lol.

    As FDR supposedly said, nothing in politics happens by accident.

    • Agree: ivan
  141. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tusk

    I don’t think utu is claiming that it was a US bioweapon.

    Whether it was a US or Chinese bioweapon would be impossible to know and have significant evidence for, let alone proof. It’s basically pointless to debate.

    What I think utu and some of the other commenters are suggesting is that there seem to be 2 theories that predominate, either that it was natural or a Chinese bioweapon, and that the idea that it’s a US bioweapon is just as plausible as the Chinese bioweapon theory.

    • Thanks: utu
    • Replies: @Tusk
    , @Ron Unz
  142. FvS says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    And risk tanking our own economy too? I highly doubt it. The U.S. is still too dependent on trade from China.

  143. Tusk says:
    @Anonymous

    Thanks, and apologies to utu because I agree with him in that case that it’s plausible either way, though I don’t think it is a bioweapon from either side.

  144. ivan says:
    @Kim

    When I was working in a small company in Dongguan some decades ago, I always had a problem eating the meals, as the veggies were stored in a disused toilet. Having said that they were still cleaner than some places in my native India.

  145. utu says:

    World must prepare for biological weapons that target ethnic groups based on genetics, says Cambridge University (13 AUGUST 2019)
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2019/08/12/world-must-prepare-biological-weapons-target-ethnic-groups-based/

    The New Killer Pathogens
    Countering the Coming Bioweapons Threat (May/June 2018)
    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/2018-04-16/new-killer-pathogens

    Coronavirus theories: Is coronavirus an experiment gone wrong? Is it a Chinese bioweapon? (Feb 12, 2020)
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/1240643/Coronavirus-conspiracy-theories-China-Wuhan-lab-experiment-bioweapon-coronavirus-news

    Was the new coronavirus created by China or the United States? ( 9 Feb, 2020)
    https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3049736/was-new-coronavirus-created-china-or-united-states

    China Slams Israeli Claim That Coronavirus Came From Bioweapon Lab (30 JANUARY 2020)
    https://www.insideover.com/society/china-slams-israeli-claim-that-coronavirus-came-from-bioweapon-lab.html

    Israeli Analyst Says One Coronavirus Conspiracy Theory Is Less Crazy Than You Think (January 27, 2020)
    https://www.ccn.com/israeli-analyst-one-coronavirus-conspiracy-theory-less-crazy-than-you-think/

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  146. nsa says:
    @Sean

    The “Spanish” flu? The 1918 Influenza Epidemic started in Haskell County, Kansas, but was relatively mild and just ran its course. However, some of the virus (early variant of H1N1) leaked into a nearby military encampment overcrowded with draftees. The virus took hold and quickly mutated into a virulent killer. Against all medical advice, Wilson and his generals declared the war effort too important to quarantine the camp, sending recruits to other camps and then overseas on troop ships……eventually infecting the entire planet and killing north of 100 million. Heavily censored American newspapers mostly denied the epidemic and then actually tried to pin the epidemic on the hated Bosch, claiming infected agents were landed secretly by submarine in the US. Next best patsy was the Spanish, because their newspapers were not censored and they actually reported on the epidemic. So Wilson and crew’s malfeasance resulted in the death of more than 100 million humans. The 1918 influenza strain killed a disproportionate number of 20 to 30 year-olds…..the reason being their healthy immune systems overreacted (ARDS) to the virus and destroyed most the lung tissue, allowing secondary pneumonia bacterial invasion. Carts roamed city streets crying out “bring out your dead, bring out your dead”. Thanks Woodrow…….

    • Replies: @Sean
  147. @nsa

    #69 nsa – great point on the 1918 “epidemic started in Haskell County, Kansas, and spread around the world by the US military and civilian leadership.”

    I had never heard that before so I looked up some general references that verify your point. Many more are available, but here are two good ones:

    “The site of origin of the 1918 influenza pandemic and its public health implications”
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC340389/

    “Flue epidemic of 1918”
    https://kshs.org/kansapedia/flu-epidemic-of-1918/17805

    Of course, the above references leave out the anti-German xenophobia of Pres. Wilson (which I readily believe). But they confirm the part about Haskell County, Kansas being ground zero for the 1918 pandemic.

    I learned more relevant history from your comment than 8 years of high school and college and 30+ years of reading Fake News. Thanks!

    • Replies: @nsa
  148. Tusk says:
    @Anonymous

    It’s illegal to bring in something like that. Many states have border quarantines to stop the influx of diseases or pests that could harm local populations. It’s hardly some assault on China that they weren’t allowed to import dead birds in a suitcase even though they are for sale in America. America bans the importation of many things that provide a biosecurity risk, as dead birds would, which you declare on your incoming passenger card seen here: https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/CBP%20Form%206059B%20English%20%28Sample%20Watermark%29.pdf

    And you can read the customs and border information in regards to importing products such as seeds or meat here:
    https://www.cbp.gov/travel/us-citizens/know-before-you-go/prohibited-and-restricted-items

    The law is the same for whoever and wherever a traveller is from. You cannot bring those products across the border, same in Australia, New Zealand, and so on. The passenger bringing the birds violated the customs law.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  149. ivan says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    Luttwak is a sensible man. He may be counted among the neocons, but his orientation is to protect American interests and that of the “free” world. Although I put apostrophes on “free”, I still prefer the “free” world to the alternatives.

    • Replies: @Meena
  150. @Anonymous

    If the world followed the wisdom of Lao Tsu there would be none of this shit, or a lot more we complain about on these webpages:

    [MORE]

    In a small country with few people:
    Though there are machines that would increase
    production ten to a hundred miles
    they are not used.
    The people take death seriously and do not travel about.
    Though they have boats and carriages no one uses them.
    Though they have armour and weapons, there is no occasion to display them.
    The people give up writing
    and return to the knotting of cords.
    They are satisfied with their food.
    They are pleased with their clothes.
    They are content with their homes.
    They are happy in their simple ways.
    Even though they live within sight of another country
    and can hear dogs barking and cocks crowing in it,
    still the people grow old and die
    without ever coming into conflict.

    Tao Te Ching (Verse 80) http://www.thebigview.com

  151. Ron Unz says:
    @Anonymous

    What I think utu and some of the other commenters are suggesting is that there seem to be 2 theories that predominate, either that it was natural or a Chinese bioweapon, and that the idea that it’s a US bioweapon is just as plausible as the Chinese bioweapon theory.

    Well, I’ve seen zero evidence that the Coronavirus is a bioweapon, but if it were, it would almost certainly be an American one. I’d put the odds that America built and released it as 10x or 20x more likely than China. The Internet is filled with enormous numbers of crackpots and shills, and anyone who claims it’s probably a Chinese bioweapon has revealed himself as such.

    For example, there are some early indications that the virus is far more deadly to Chinese (and probably other East Asians) than whites. I’d say an American bioweapon would be much more likely to target Chinese people than a Chinese bioweapon.

    Second, China was the place hit, and it occurred during a time of high US-China international tension. A totally-coincidental bioweapon release by China is far less likely under these circumstances than a deliberate one by America.

    Over the last year, something like half of all China’s domestic pigs, the main meat source of the Chinese people, have died due to a sudden outbreak of a different Swine virus. The close timing with the sudden outbreak of the human virus does seem rather suspicious.

    Just a few days ago, Whitney Webb published a fine article on America’s long history of bioweapons research:

    https://www.unz.com/wwebb/bats-gene-editing-and-bioweapons-recent-darpa-experiments-raise-concerns-amid-coronavirus-outbreak/

    I’d say that use of a bioweapon under current world circumstances would be a totally insane policy, and normally I’d say that would almost rule out the possibility. However, America’s government has already demonstrated that it’s totally insane in lots of other things, so maybe the pattern fits…

  152. Anonymous[304] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tusk

    It’s illegal to bring in something like that. Many states have border quarantines to stop the influx of diseases or pests that could harm local populations. It’s hardly some assault on China that they weren’t allowed to import dead birds in a suitcase even though they are for sale in America.

    Yes, of course.

    The point isn’t that it shouldn’t be illegal to bring in such items or that confiscating such items at the border constitutes an “assault on China”. The point is that the US CBP and media publicized the seizure in a certain way. The birds were in a pet food package, but the CBP and media have been claiming that they were “disguised” as pet food and have been implying that the birds may have been brought in for some nefarious purpose like spreading avian flu.

    There are Americans who buy and sell freeze dried birds as pet food: https://www.rodentpro.com/categories/frozen-foods/quail

  153. barr says:
    @DB Cooper

    Wilson sold China to appease Japan in 1920 Paris conference over the League of Nation which USA eventually couldn’t join or did not join China was looking for means and ways just how to survive the next waves of multi pronged attacks from Europe Soviet and Japan.

  154. d dan says:
    @Kim

    “It has been obvious from the start that communism cannot create prosperity and is the enemy of freedom. …”

    Ha, ha, not a very bright troll. I am not a communist nor a communist supporter. Your anti-communism creeds have been applied to the wrong person, with the wrong answers to the wrong questions. I don’t care whether it is a communist or a capitalist government, if it helps the people, it is a good government.

    Your original post claims that: “First, of course, they had to put those people into poverty.” So, I demand proof that they INTENTIONALLY PUT them into poverty. What your answer is a ranting of repeated and unproved lies: 65 million dead, mass murder, famine, starvation, cannibalism (wow, cannibalism? at least his one is new to me) blah, blah, blah.

    Just a little hint to help you: by 1950s, CCP was already in firm control of mainland. Exactly what is the incentive for them to intentionally put those people into poverty? Why? What is the rationale? What is the motivation to murder 65 millions? You don’t have a rational and plausible answer.

    As for the comparison with Japan, Taiwan, Korea, etc, ha, ha, another dumb point. Firstly, these are small countries. Secondly, they have firm supports of US – economically, financially, militarily, etc. Thirdly, unlike PRC, they (except Korea) don’t have to fight various wars to defend their border. And finally, even under the sanctions of both superpowers, China developed its own nuclear weapon, nuclear submarine, satellite, etc, a burden that none of these countries need to bear.

    Face it, PRC is a successful country. Simply admitting it will free up your brain for better uses.

    • Replies: @Kim
    , @anon
  155. Meena says:
    @ivan

    This is a man who writes in NY Tines extolling the virtue of facilitating the civil war in Syria ,promoting the existing civil war , and letting Syria turn into a permanent festering wound .

    He was the one very articulate about deposing Saddam by mounting attack not to get rid of a dishonest dictator but get rid of this particular Middle East leader who was trying to modernize economy, offering first class health care and education and was trying to introduce technological innovations in public life .

    He made it a point by saying Saddam was not like champagne drinking , prostitute patronizing Saudi leader wasting money in London . He told that Saddam needed to go .

    His first love is and has always been Zionism .

    • Agree: WHAT
    • Replies: @ivan
  156. barr says:
    @Kim

    that communism cannot create prosperity and is the enemy of freedom. It is obvious by reasoning and by observation and experience. Yet – solely out of an insane greed for power – people like Mao and Chou En Lai and Stalin too of course, intentionally plunged China into a brutal 30-year civil war. ”

    Have you measured the losses of lives ,destruction of the societies ,enslavement of the minds,and marginalization of the indigenous in their own countries occupied ruled controlled by colonization which provided the oxygen for the capitalism and the post WW2 or post colonized phase of current neoliberalization? Against those externalities, Capitalism is just a name that can share same moral space as does or will the history of slavery .

    Had Soviet forced other countries to sale oil in ruble , it might still be standing tall. May not be as tall as capitalism .

  157. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    Well, I’ve seen zero evidence that the Coronavirus is a bioweapon…

    A strong hint that the coronavirus was synthesized came from January 31, 2020 paper:

    Uncanny similarity of unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV spike protein to HIV-1 gp120 and Gag
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.30.927871v1

    which subsequently was withdrawn on February 02, 2020:

    “This paper has been withdrawn by its authors. They intend to revise it in response to comments received from the research community on their technical approach and their interpretation of the results. If you have any questions, please contact the corresponding author.”

    However there are voices in the very technical discussion under the paper that find the claim of the authors not entirely unjustified.

    • Replies: @ivan
  158. Anon[112] • Disclaimer says:

    But freedom-loving capitalist America easily outdoes any modern socialist state in its negligence and damage to public health and wellbeing. A casual point of comparison is the 2009 H1N1 A “San Diego” virus. This took the US To 6 months to declare an emergency and take active measures. Because of this inaction, 150k-575K people died all over the world….

    Various local epidemics, as well as the US (San Diego) H1N1 A Pandemic of 2009 with 280K dead (150-575K dead) signal to us this potential risk.

    We will need evidence that this was actually the fault of the USA.

    According to the wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemic_H1N1/09_virus) on this virus, it is very possible it actually came from Asia:

    On June 23, 2009, The New York Times reported a new “theory” from U.S. federal agriculture officials, “contrary to the popular assumption that the new swine flu pandemic arose on factory farms in Mexico” now believe that it “most likely emerged from pigs in Asia, but then traveled to North America in a human.” However, they emphasized that there was no way to prove their theory and only sketchy data underpinning it.[14]

    In early June 2009, using computational methods developed over the last ten years, an international team of researchers attempted to reconstruct the origins and timescale of the 2009 flu pandemic. Oliver Pybus of Oxford University’s Department of Zoology, and part of the research team, claims “Our results show that this strain has been circulating among pigs, possibly among multiple continents, for many years prior to its transmission to humans.” The research team that worked on this case also believed that it was “derived from several viruses circulating in swine,” and that the initial transmission to humans occurred several months before recognition of the outbreak. The team concluded that “despite widespread influenza surveillance in humans, the lack of systematic swine surveillance allowed for the undetected persistence and evolution of this potentially pandemic strain for many years.”

    According to the researchers, movement of live pigs between Eurasia and North America “seemed to have facilitated the mixing of diverse swine influenza viruses, leading to the multiple reassortment events associated with the genesis of the (new H1N1) strain.” They also stated that this new pandemic “provides further evidence of the role of domestic pigs in the ecosystem of influenza A.”

    The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic_vaccine page basically blames Mexico, and also shows that Mexico took strict measures to stop the spread, itself.

    Apparently this flu was not actually that deadly, though.

    “The virus is currently less lethal than previous pandemic strains and kills about 0.01–0.03% of those infected”

  159. Anonymous[200] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    The more I read the more I think it is entirely possible this is an Israeli-US created virus being planted on the Chinese. Even if this was an accidental leak from their virology lab, it simply does not make sense that China would create a virus that specifically targets its own people. There are a few strange coincidences that made me think this:

    1) The daily attacks from US media on Chinese government the minute the quarantine began, not just Zerohedge but WSJ, NYT, Breitbart, National Review, American Conservative. Both liberal and conservative media are having a CCP bash fest.

    2) Pence, Pompeo and Bannon, the 3 biggest China bashers, are unusually quiet.

    3) Wilbur Ross immediately claiming this might help bring back manufacturing to US (while the body is still warm, couldn’t contain his glee).

    4) The mysterious arrest of the chemistry professor at Harvard — there’s more to this story than his not disclosing funding from China.

    5) Israel and its attack dog Sen. Tom Cotton now simultaneously accusing China of making this bioweapon — to use against their own people?! What a laugh.

    6) The US choosing Wuhan as a location to stage a joint military exercise two weeks before patient zero, that is quite a coincidence.

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @utu
  160. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    Sure there’s a cost to China of the present epidemic. But bioweapons are true weapons of mass destruction. Even a major disruption of normal life, if it prepares an effective defense to a real WMD attack, would be justified.

    But lots of other scenarios are possible. The Canadian lab where the CoVid19 or its progenitor is said by some to have originated, apparently has very lax controls over what staff can (or, one hopes, could) remove from the lab. Perhaps the Chinese lab has stricter rules, but no frisking or x-ray scanning will identify someone who just accidentally, and perhaps unknowingly, infected themselves with a deadly and highly infectious virus.

    But it seems we’ll not have to wait long to see cui bono, if anyone bonos. The
    CoVid19 is now back on an exponential course in China, so this seems destined to play out quite soon.

    • Replies: @utu
  161. Lol says:

    It’s ironic that Western governments are busy hiding how much disease mass immigration brings, the public health costs of this insanity and so on, but they’ll bash China over an unexpected disease when they can’t handle expected consequences.

    Oh, and pointing this out can cost you your job in the free speech capitals of the world.

  162. Glaivester says: • Website
    @Kim

    First, of course, they had to put those people into poverty. I mean, before they could “lift them out”.

    Poverty is the default state of mankind. The idea that people had to be put into poverty from a natural state of non-poverty is ridiculous.

    • Replies: @Kim
  163. Glaivester says: • Website
    @nsa

    As I recall, it was called the Spanish flu because all of the cases reported in the media occurred in Spain – because neutral Spain was one of the few countries not censoring its news.

    • Replies: @KA
  164. Anonymous[200] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Correction on #6: The US did not “choose” Wuhan. China selected Wuhan as the location to stage the 2019 Military World Games, and US sent 172 military athletes to compete. But the timing is quite coincidental. Israel was not listed among participating countries, but it also wasn’t on the list of non-participating countries. Odd again.

    It was a huge to-do with 9,308 athletes from 110 countries. Good thing this happened after. Or maybe this could only happen after…

    China loves this kind of world games. Maybe this will teach them to be a little less globalist. Like their former leader Deng said, “When you open the doors, you let the flies in.” Or something to that effect.

  165. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    Speculations on whether American released the virus are more justified than speculations that China did it to itself.

    My grasp of the Macciavellian calculus is too slight to see how America would benefit from such an attack on China. But the risk of serious blowback would seem to be so enormous that I would rate normal human incompetence rather than Trumpian insanity as the more likely cause of this disaster.

  166. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-02-12-20-intl-hnk/index.html

    The Hubei health authority reported that 242 more people died from the coronavirus in Hubei province on Wednesday

    Hubei authorities confirmed an additional 14,840 cases of the virus in Hubei on Wednesday

    There have been 33,693 patients hospitalized in Hubei, including 1,437 who are in critical condition, according to the health authority, adding that 3,441 patients have recovered and been discharged.

    • Replies: @utu
  167. Kim says:
    @d dan

    You are unaware that there was widespread cannibalism in some provinces during The Great Leap Forward? A little reading might be in order for you.

    65 million dead from famine in that little policy failure. These were deaths that resulted from an intentional policy. Note that there was at no time any famine in Taiwan. Because they did not intentionally attempt to implement communism.

    As for the comparison with Japan, Taiwan, Korea, etc, ha, ha, another dumb point. Firstly, these are small countries. Secondly, they have firm supports of US – economically, financially, militarily, etc. Thirdly, unlike PRC, they (except Korea) don’t have to fight various wars to defend their border. And finally, even under the sanctions of both superpowers, China developed its own nuclear weapon, nuclear submarine, satellite, etc, a burden that none of these countries need to bear.

    1. Small countries that did not implement communism. None of the three, in particular Japan or Taiwan, is resource-rich in comparison with China, which has a large population but also a large land mass.

    2. China cut itself off from the world. It was intentionally attempting autarchy. And now that it has not cut itself off, it can be more prosperous. But the underlying point is, I suppose, that China’s rise depended on the evil West and could not have been achieved without the evil West.

    3. What wars did China fight to defend its borders post 1949? Ther was alittle tussle with Vietnam. A spat with the Soviet Union. An aggrandisement in Tibet. Hardly big enough to hold China back. Or do you mean the constant threats against Taiwan’s borders?

    4. China’s technological progress strangely always lags that of the West. Funny that. Couldn’t be because it always relies on technogical transfers of some kind (forced transfers, theft, spying, etc)?

    The point remains…the tyrranical and totalitarian system that dominates China is not responsible in a positive way for its current degree of economic prosperity. That is a result of Western forms of science and social organization. The Chinese aspects of Chinese government are in fact what hold it back.

    You may thank the West and express your heartfelt gratitude whenever you are ready. I wouldn’t want you to lose any face.

    • Agree: ivan
    • Replies: @d dan
    , @Biff
    , @last straw
  168. nsa says:
    @Steve Penfield

    Pick up a copy of “The Great Influenza” by John M Barry….550 pages worth of detail concerning the extreme malfeasance of the US government, press, and military. A good argument could be made that Woodrow Wilson killed more humans than all the great popular villains (Hitler, Mao, Stalin) put together…..and managed to sow the seeds of WW2 as a cherry atop his vile legacy. See comment 149 above for more relevant detail and notice the intelligent reply of a resident jew.

    • Thanks: Steve Penfield
  169. Kim says:
    @Glaivester

    Poverty is the default state of mankind. The idea that people had to be put into poverty from a natural state of non-poverty is ridiculous.

    You are wrong. Poverty is not the default state of mankind (however tendentiously you might strain to define such a theoretical “state”).

    I can more plausibly say that the default state of mankind is one where people make an effort to maintain themselves out of poverty and their success in that endeavour is determined by the available resources.

    But when we look at the communists we see that, as they always do, they did everything possible to interfere with any efforts people made to help and improve themselves. Indeed they killed, outlawed and pilloried anyone who atempted any such thing, as a warning to others.

    Because if the people are not miserable, and if they have independence, how can they be made dependent on the gangster communist state?

  170. Anonymous[346] • Disclaimer says:
    @CanSpeccy

    How do you not see that, from the perspective of the Trump administration’s foreign policy objectives, the outbreak is a positive development?

    The Trump admin wants to reduce trade with China and promote domestic industry and supply chains. It also wants allies and neutral countries to reduce trade with China and to avoid engaging with Chinese companies like Huawei and participating in Chinese trade initiatives like the Belt and Road project.

    Whether it’s man-made subterfuge or just a coincidence, obviously this is one of the best things that could happen for the Trump admin’s foreign policy goals at this time, from a strictly coldly rational standpoint.

  171. @CanSpeccy

    Who says Trump would be behind it? There is still such a thing as the deep state in the US.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  172. @Anonymous

    Why is everyone behaving as if every positive test is a correct positive?

    The PPV (Positive Predictive Value) of a test depends on the specificity and sensitivity of the test, and the prevalence of the thing being tested for.

    Without even knowing specificity and sensitivity, for a disease with low prevalence it’s overwhelmingly likely that an arbitrarily-selected asymptomatic individual who tests positive, is a false positive.

    Do the ‘math’ as Yanks say (hopefully this image from Wikipedia reproduces here):

    https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/46d31176abc5857689be02fafd1bfc7e0d60ef59

    So, even if the test is exceptionally good (99% sensitive and 99% specific), if it is deployed to test a condition that only affects 1% of the population then 50 percent of positives will be false positives.

    If the sensitivity and specificities are lower, then the false positive rate rises quickly. For example, if both are 95% (still unrealistically high), that implies that 84% of positive tests will be false positives.

    At present the number of cases is considerably less than 1% of the population.

    For low-prevalence diseases with relatively new tests, if there is a positive test result and the test subject is asymptomatic, the probability approaches 1 that the result is a false positive.

    As made clear by Altman & Bland (1994) in the BMJ:

    If the prevalence of the disease is very low, the positive predictive value will not be close to 1 even if both the sensitivity and specificity are high. Thus in screening the general population it is inevitable that many people with positive test results will be false positives.

    In other words, the chubby American lassie in the video was given a good scare because the medical union doesn’t really understand statistics – which is an indictment on them.

    Altman, D.G. and J. M. Bland, “Statistics Notes: Diagnostic tests 2: predictive valuesBMJ 1994; 309 [doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.309.6947.102 ]

    • Agree: Alfred
  173. Excellent article! Chapeau!

    Everybody should read these facts of the truth, in order to erase the propaganda stored in their mind.
    Put in there by more or less malicious news sites like the New York Times, Asia Times, Washington Post, CNN, NBC and other main US and European news sites. Although, a few of their journalists beg to differ.

    • Agree: Ber
  174. @nsa

    This is precisely why I consider the death toll from the 1918 ‘flu to be a part of the death toll from WWI – and also something that belongs explicitly at the feet of Wilson, who finagled the US into WWI having been elected on a platform of the US staying out of it.

    Transporting hundreds of thousands of potential carriers across natural geographical containment boundaries, and then slapping those disease vectors into an unsanitary environment full of malnourished, exhausted young men… and then shipping those malnourished, exhausted, infected young men back home (again, circumventing natural containment boundaries – e.g., oceans).

    Without Wilson,

    • WWI would have ended in a negotiated settlement in 1917;
    • there would have been no 1918 ‘flu pandemic (at a time when medical science was still as ‘hit and miss’ as it was in the 19th century, ergo ill-equipped to deal with a novel contagion);
    • the Treaty of Versailles would not have imposed brutal conditions on Germany;
    • No Weimar Republic;
    • No hyperinflation (and very likely no Great Depression);
    • No rise (in Germany) of a shouty immigrant with a funny moustache (I forget his name);
    • No Anschluss; no German invasion of Czechoslovakia; no invasion of Poland;
    • No WWII;…

    and the big one

    No ‘holocaust’ (real or imagined).

    Wilson is directly, personally responsible for the Holocaust: he is the sine qua non, because without his dishonesty none of the post-WWI conditions for the rise of Hitler would have occurred.

    The echoes of the counterfactual exist to this day: in all likelihood the English would still have reneged on their promises to the Arabs – but there would have been far less chance of them giving Mandate Palestine to a bunch of Eurotrash hovel-dwellers, because WWII would not have happened. So the Middle East would almost certainly be less of a hotbed.

    And without WWII to serve as a focal point for national pride, the Soviet Union would have had a less compliant population between the 1940s and 1960s.

    A completely different world was possible: Wilson strangled that world in its crib in 1917.

  175. d dan says:
    @Kim

    After 2 rounds of exchanges, you still have not answered my very first question: why did CCP intentionally put people in poverty? What is its motivation? What is the proof? You don’t have the answer. You are trolling.

    As to your 4 points (non)-rebuttal, you really need to improve your thinking skill. None stands minimal scrutiny. e.g.

    1. You claim that big country is as easy to govern as small one. Think again.
    2. You claim that China cut off from the world by its own accord. Again, think why did China want to do it to itself? You won’t have a plausible and reasonable answer.
    3. You claim China only fought small wars, and they were “hardly big enough to hold China back.” Think again, you didn’t even list all major wars China engaged in.
    4. You claim China lags technologically behind the west. That was true in the early days, but this did not refute my point that China has to develop military tech that other small tigers didn’t. As to the false claim about tech theft, etc. they are irrelevant to the original point of discussion.

    Get it? You either can’t collect all relevant facts or can’t focus on the actual points of debate.

    As to your juvenile taunt about thanking the west for its modern ideas, most Chinese acknowledge the contributions of western sciences. But did you ask the west to thank China for inventing the paper so that they can write down the science? I guess no. You are just plain childish.

  176. utu says:
    @utu

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    ACTIVE CASES: 52,941
    Mild Condition: 44,722 (84%)
    Serious or Critical 8,219 (16%)

    CLOSED CASES: 7,435
    Recovered /Discharged 6,066 (82%)
    Deaths 1,369 (18%)

    The spike on Wednesday in number of case is due to new method of clarification:
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/02/12/coronavirus-cases-being-counted-differently-china-and-death-tolls-have-spiked/4744905002/

    however it does not explain why there is also a spike in number of deaths (242 on Wednesday which is about 100% more than day before).

    Does the data on the Closed Cases imply that mortality could be as high as 18%?

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @d dan
  177. utu says:
    @Anonymous

    Agree. While it is circumstantial evidence only, it is compelling. If we knew it is a bioweapon then we must concur with Ron Unz: “I’d put the odds that America built and released it as 10x or 20x more likely than China.”

  178. Alfred says:
    @CanSpeccy

    My grasp of the Machiavellian calculus is too slight to see how America would benefit from such an attack on China.

    You are clearly unaware of how mentally retarded the Neocons are. Just look at what they have done in the Middle East in the expectation of a very temporary advantage to Israel. These people are unable to think one step ahead. The Iranians, Russians and Chinese are way ahead of them when it comes to strategic thinking.

    Netanyahu’s main concern is how to keep out of jail. Trump’s main concern was how to not get impeached. That ambiance does not encourage long-term thinking. They need distractions. The bigger, the better. 🙁

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  179. ivan says:
    @Meena

    I did not know the part about him extolling the war in Syria and deposing Saddam. I read Luttwak in the early 2000 on turbo capitalism. He sounded sensible. Now it seems he has a crazy Zionist angle to him. Thanks for the correction.

  180. ivan says:
    @Ron Unz

    It doesn’t have to be a made as a bioweapon to have the effect of a bioweapon. The scale of the Chinese response suggests that they are acting as if its a leak from their bioweapons lab. Chinese manufacturers are notorious for having a ‘legitimate’ line for manufacturing devices for a contracted buyer, and another black line for copying the same to market under their own name. It is the way it is over there even if they swear otherwise on their parents graves. Just because the Chinese appear to be more vulnerable to flu-like viruses doesn’t mean they can’t experiment with the same.

    Their WW2 like blockade of their cities all point to a guilty conscience. The tragedy is the blockades seems to have made matters much worse in Hubei.

  181. ivan says:
    @utu

    The paper was taken back because the authours did not make their case that there were HIV inserts. Such codons as they had characterised were too short to be of value, since the codons are shared with multiple species. The short codons were not unique to HIV. The much earlier comments on the paper made that pretty clear.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  182. Biff says:
    @Kim

    The point remains…the tyrranical and totalitarian system that dominates China is not responsible in a positive way for its current degree of economic prosperity.

    Yea, you wouldn’t want to blame the people who are firmly in charge.
    With this logic you could also conclude that the Kansas City Chiefs really didn’t win the Super Bowl – it was really LSU, because some of their players came from there.
    The sky’s the limit!

  183. Ber says:
    @utu

    Is Wuhan virus a hit job? A whodunit not to miss.

    • Replies: @Johnny Walker Read
  184. Adûnâi says:
    @utu

    “It is typical for any authoritarian system that perceives openness as weakness. If China wants to change the tone of the narrative it must shows its weakness and vulnerability and start asking for help.”

    Openness is a trademark of gays.

    Never say sorry to Americans! The same as with SJWs – every American is an SJW effectively, they will never tire barking at you, the only way is to ignore them until they die from AIDS and shut up forever.

    “Don’t you find it strange that China is blamed among the conspiracy theorists? That China is trying to self-harm itself?”

    That’s not weird at all. That was the standard response of Ukrainians to the Donbass – “they are bombing their own houses”. Literally. And of course, nobody cares that it was Ukraine that attacked the Donbass, they did not consider their side the aggressor.

    China will self-harm because they are EVIL.

  185. Adûnâi says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    “So the Chinese public would understand how much hatred there is for them out in the world. Simply for them being Chinese.”

    Exactly. I supported China against Hong Kong. I supported Blizzard’s decision to punish the RoC propagandist in October. I am incredibly alone. The masses of the West are in a frenzied hysteria against anything Nazi, Soviet, Chinese or Juche. No arguments work. You cannot even conceive that Katyn was perpetrated by the Nazis. Or that Stalin was anything but a “mASs mUrDERer”.

    It is like a social media outrage over Warcraft III: Reforged, but on an even larger scale, with even more lies and stupidity, and kept alive for decades. HBO’s Chernobyl full of lies? They gobble it up. Another southern Korean lie about allegedly “dead” North Koreans that routinely return back to life? The NPCs want more lies from the “defectors”!

    • LOL: Tusk
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  186. Can we believe any of the statistics about the Coronavirus outbreak in China ? Both the CDC and the WHO have been accused of corruption by former employees .It has been well-established that flu deaths in the US and the UK have been grossly exaggerated , for example in the UK in a normal flu season there may be 350 deaths but ,by lumping together all deaths occurring during the Winter months ,the government and big pharma managed to blame approximately 15,000 deaths on the flu. Were they not selling enough vaccines and related products?
    What is the agenda behind the “epidemic” in China ? Is it more authoritarian control of the populace ?
    Don’t the globalists,bankers and Wall Street actually control China ? See: “Mao Zedong: Yale-in-China ,Skull&Bones and the Jesuits” darknessisfalling.com and “The Rockefellers and Rothschilds in China, a long and intimate relationship” newsbud.com

  187. @Alfred

    The last lab in America which produced penicillin shut down in 2004. Although we we get a lot of meds from India as well as China, China supplies India with a lot of ingredients it uses to make those meds. You “Murkans” who are dependent on all types of meds could be in deep shite here shortly.
    https://www.winterwatch.net/2020/02/black-swan-supply-chain-us-dependence-on-china-for-pharma-medical-supplies-may-lead-to-er-interruptions/

  188. In a pleasant surprise, the Chicago Tribune published an article on China’s coronavirus – apparently from the New York Times, though I couldn’t find the article on the NYT. The surprise was that the article is detached, informative, and even sympathetic, free of the hateful China-bashing that has become so prevalent of late. The link is below; it’s worth reading.

    On February 13, China reported a huge increase in the number of infections – more than 15,000, results that surprised the doctors, and astonishing and disheartening news for China’s citizens. The incidence of new infections was decreasing significantly, indicating that the contagion had peaked and raising hopes for a quick end to the crisis. But perhaps this is not to be.

    New daily infections peaked at nearly 4,000 on February 4, but were down to only 2,000 on February 11, and only 1,200 on February 12. Below is a table of the actual recent progress:

    Date; total infections; deaths; new infections

    February 04 – 24,324 infections, 490 deaths – 3,886
    February 05 – 28,018 infections, 563 deaths – 3,694
    February 06 – 31,161 infections, 636 deaths – 3,143
    February 07 – 34,546 infections, 722 deaths – 3,399
    February 08 – 37,198 infections, 811 deaths – 2,656
    February 09 – 40,171 infections, 908 deaths – 3,062
    February 10 – 42,638 infections, 1,016 deaths – 2,478
    February 11 – 44,653 infections, 1,113 deaths – 2,015
    February 12 – 59,651 infections, 1,367 deaths – 15,152

    But the medical authorities adopted a change in screening and testing methods to relieve the pressure on the medical staff, now resorting to CT scans instead of the more extensive and time-consuming viral tests for which materials were in constant short supply. The earlier tests searched for identification of the actual virus chain, whereas CT scans identify pneumonia variants without reference to the specific cause. Further, CT scan results are immediate whereas other tests require days for verification.

    The problem is that the CT scans may involve many of what we might term ‘false positives’ in that various forms of pneumonia are identified and categorised together and do not necessarily indicate a coronavirus infection. Nevertheless, the new ‘confirmed’ cases jumped from 1,200 with the precise method to more than 15,000 with the CT scans.

    The article noted, “The sharp rise in reported cases illustrates how hard it has been for scientists to grasp the extent and severity of the coronavirus outbreak in China, particularly inside the epicenter, where thousands of sick people remain untested for the illness. Confronted by so many people with symptoms and no easy way to test them, authorities appear to have changed the way the illness is identified.”

    Japan has a problem with its quarantined cruise ship since about 220 infections have been identified among the passengers and crew. Most importantly, the greatest number of infections – and most of the deaths – occur among the elderly who are often also suffering from diabetes or other illnesses and are not in the best of health. The cruise ship has about 3,500 people on board, at least 80% of whom are over 60 years old, with many in their 80s and even 90s. Not promising.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-nw-nyt-coronavirus-china-containment-20200213-u3obe2xqmrbjzmi7m6yjajzoci-story.html#nt=oft-Double Chain~Flex Feature~top-news-curated-chain~self-quarantine-wed-2p~~1~yes-art~curated~curatedpage

  189. @Ber

    This guy saying a lot of the same stuff Op-Ed Daily is saying. I think both of these guys have nailed it.

    • Replies: @Ber
  190. Nuncle says:

    As the author of a number of studies relating to conspiracies that have been suppressed by western governments, I welcome this article. Clearly, there’s something going on when western governments ‘expose’ conspiracies allegedly hatched by other governments. I understand that the Mossad has now come out to support the allegations being peddled by the NYT that seem ably refuted here.

    But who is K. J. Noh?

  191. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    How do you not see that, from the perspective of the Trump administration’s foreign policy objectives, the outbreak is a positive development?

    A positive development except for all the blowback, this to include, potentially:

    Pandemic;
    stock market implosion;
    global depression;
    plus Chinese payback in nuclear, chemical or biological form.

  192. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    Who says Trump would be behind it? There is still such a thing as the deep state in the US.

    That’s a possibility that had crossed my mind. A means to sink Trump with the blowback from an chemical weapons attack on China. And certainly, one understands that the deep state is a sort of high powered and massively publicly funded asylum for the criminally insane. But is it that insane?

  193. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    however it does not explain why there is also a spike in number of deaths (242 on Wednesday which is about 100% more than day before).

    They only just swept up and counted the the dead folks lying about in the streets. There’ll be the same problem when this plague hits San Francisco and Los Angeles.

    • Troll: d dan
  194. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Alfred

    You are clearly unaware of how mentally retarded the Neocons are. …These people are unable to think one step ahead.

    On the contrary. I know the type well. It’s not that they’re incapable of thinking ahead. It’s that they get a kick out of taking risks, relying on their wits to see them through. They’re hooligans on the loose.

    And it can be a winning strategy. Thinks Huns at the gates of Rome, Ghengis Kahn, Vikings, the Spanish Conquistadors — a few guys on horseback, totally ruthless, winning more than half a continent, …. the Clintons, the Bushs.

  195. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @ivan

    the codons are shared with multiple species. The short codons were not unique to HIV

    Yeah, but there were four of them at different locations in the gene sequence, but the amin0 sequences for which they coded came together to form a functional receptor binding site in the folded protein:

    despite the inserts being discontinuous on the primary amino acid sequence, 3D-modelling of the 2019-nCoV suggests that they converge to constitute the receptor binding site.

    That’s what the authors found “uncanny.”

    • Replies: @anon
    , @ivan
  196. d dan says:
    @utu

    New “clinical diagnosis” method was introduced in Hubei based on feedback from the frontline doctors and healthcare workers. The faster test sways the treatments to the conservative side that may include other possible causes of pneumonia because the determination of the exact cause(s) is time consuming, complicated, and may not even be necessary for most treatments. This enables more patients to be treated as confirmed cases as soon as possible compare with previous test method, and hence reduces the chances of false negatives. It also enables more tracking of potential secondary contacts.

    Out of 14,840 new cases, 13,332 cases are based on the new method i.e. 1508 are confirmed cases based on the old method. Out of 242 new deaths, 135 are based on the new method and 107 are based on the old method. Both old numbers are consistent with the trend of the previous days in Hubei, although going forward, they may not be reported any more.

    Just want to get this info out lest trolls start spreading rumors again (e.g. “They only just swept up and counted the the dead folks lying about in the streets”).

    • Thanks: Alfred
    • Replies: @eah
    , @d dan
  197. utu says:

    “Out of 242 new deaths, 135 are based on the new method and 107 are based on the old method.” – The new method killed 135 people. They would prefer the old method.

  198. eah says:
    @d dan

    So it’s either believe you (no corroboration, links, etc) or be a ‘troll spreading rumors’ — got it, thanks for that clarification.

    You win today’s Oblivious Prize.

    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @d dan
  199. Remember the panic over Ebola , a number of researchers believe it was a psy-op, see for example :
    “Is the Ebola outbreak a psy-op? ” real-agenda.com :
    “Ebola is a propaganda operation. Choices are being made :what to emphasize, what to ignore , what to use in order to invoke fear. Producing fear, one way or another , is a standard element in exerting top-down control over the population. When people are afraid, they’re compliant , they’re obedient to authority . And that’s the agenda.” By Jon Rappoport

    • Replies: @9/11 Inside job
  200. d dan says:
    @eah

    “no corroboration, links, etc…”

    There will be 1,000 articles written about the new numbers in the next 24 hours for all you care to read and link. I guarantee you.

    • LOL: eah
    • Troll: Tusk
    • Replies: @eah
  201. anon[294] • Disclaimer says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Now we need a geneticist or geneticist microbiologist to explain how to differentiate an engineered virus from natural virus and genetically natural stable virus from rapidly mutating virus .
    Is it like gene therapy ? Is it like inserting new nucleotides or triplet codon or deleting or rearranging existing codon , or deleting inserting or rearranging the introns ? How did one anticipate a gain of function ? How did one tweak what part of the virulence?

  202. eah says:
    @d dan

    Pro tip: when you make (very) specific claims in a comment, while simultaneously impugning others as ‘trolls spreading rumors’, it’s best to provide some kind of corroboration or proof of the specific claims you’re making (unless they’re self-evident, which is not the case here) — otherwise readers might be tempted to conclude you yourself are nothing more than a ‘troll spreading rumors’ — you should at least consider doing this, anyway.

    Also think a bit harder, and more honestly, about why I said you win today’s Oblivious Prize.

  203. Ber says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    The use of identical drones to spray viruses to the pig population throughout China is news to me. This is something not covered by any media – as far as I know. That guy Uriah, his analysis seems credible.

  204. Anonymous[150] • Disclaimer says:
    @Adûnâi

    Like Jews?

    Everybody dislikes Jews purely because they’re Jews.

    Nothing to do with behavior.

    How would western Christians fare in a China controlled zone if they didn’t adhere to whatever Xi thinks should be in the ‘socialist bible’.

    Binary thinking. China bad. Jews Good. No, both bad. One least worst.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/shocking-admission-who-advisor-says-coronavirus-may-infect-over-5-billion-people

    So the Americans used a virus that will attack themselves and all their allies and the entire world. Nice. CCP logic at it’s finest.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/harvard-yale-under-federal-investigation-over-shady-foreign-gifts

    It is funny watching Jews and Chinese fight over who can retain their corruption best.

    Some were working together. Imagine having 100 academics on the Thousand Talents plan at Texas A & M alone, and only 5 declared. They’re all going to go to Federal prison.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/sudden-militarization-wuhans-p4-lab-raises-new-questions-about-origin-deadly-covid-19

    Could easily have been China. China are corrupt, hubristic and incompetent enough to have pulled this off with aplomb.

    Blizzard should focus on getting anyone to turn up to Blizzcon and balance updates. They’re going to go trannie and get bannie.

    In China vs International Jewry everyone loses no matter who wins.

    But yes, smart people observed a very clear change in narrative about China that occurred a few years ago. The Jews having sucked the marrow from the United States were going to transition to China. The same in Australia. They’re inter-marrying (Zuckerberg) and learning Mandarin. But someone on both sides has decided no.

    Get your popcorn.

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @Alfred
  205. @d dan

    Couldn’t decide between Agree and Thanks so here is both. My sending the article to “Old China Hands” – friends who have been long time Australian businEssen in China until recently – supports the article. I suppose UR’s most dogged anti-Semite are gearing up for the big one in the “Chinese Century”.

  206. d dan says:
    @Anonymous

    “Imagine having 100 academics on the Thousand Talents plan at Texas A & M alone, and only 5 declared. They’re all going to go to Federal prison.”

    Yes, McCarthyism at its best. Somehow academics accepting funding from other foreign-tied funds are not charged. Only the Chinese fund is considered bad. Good to know.

  207. @Ron Unz

    So far my linking this article to old friends with many years experience of doing business in China (and living there) has elicited this, inter alia,

    “The notion that democracy somehow leads to better health outcomes is not supported by any factual evidence.  It is instructive to review how India responded to the 1994 outbreak of the plague in the city of Surat.  Hundreds of thousands promptly fled the city in fear the imposition of a quarantine, moreover, and I quote from the Indian Journal of Medical Ethics:

    “On the very first night of the outbreak of plague, around a hundred families of doctors and other professionals from the Ved road and Katargam area alone left the city in their vehicles. The procession of doctors fleeing from the city continued the next day and the day after. According to the survey of general practitioners in the plague affected areas, as many as 76% of the doctors were reported as having absconded from the city”.  

    Lucky that similar contagious diseases have not, so far, originated in India!”

    Another, who has been based in Beijing for 10 years mostly working with/running medical tech companies just said

    “Well done and here here. 100% agree with this piece by KJN. Cheers, B”

    The former correspondent BTW described the following – whose URL I may have accidentally truncated – as “bizarre” with which it is hard to disagree.

    “Americans May be Spared the Worst of Corona Virus” by Op-ed Daily https://link.medium.com/PHspz5

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
    , @d dan
  208. @9/11 Inside job

    stateofthenation.co :”Staged Coronavirus pandemic : An International criminal conspiracy of epic proportions “:
    “Whether this pandemic is being completely staged , is totally real or is hoax blended with reality cannot yet be determined with any certainty . At the end of the day it doesn’t really matter since the end result will be the same. ‘We the people’will be deceived into believing that only global governance can solve this dire matter. And, that only a One World Government can prevent such plagues and pandemics from ravaging humankind in the future .”

  209. denk says:

    fROM

    Some in Russia Think the Coronavirus Is a U.S. Biological Weapon

    What is such a charge based on?

    the virus dealt a blow to the Chinese economy, which weakens Beijing’s negotiating hand in the next round of trade talks to follow the recent signing of the phase one deal between Washington and Beijing.
    [told you so !]

    the USA ratified the Geneva convention on Biological Weapons back in 1975. But the biological games across the ocean have never stopped, and not only in local territory.
    [par for the course, the [[[sobs]]]

    Right after the Soviet collapse, the presence of American bio-laboratories has so far been confirmed in Georgia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, and Uzbekistan. Where else—only the State Department knows, though it insists that these are harmless groups tasked with developing medical devices. But if they are so harmless, then why did the Americans build them, not at home, but across the world?” The author further infers the supposedly [SIC] malign intent of these laboratories by pointing out their ties to military-aligned agencies like the Military Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA), and by citing older accusations made by Georgian politician Igor Giorgadze that the U.S. bio-laboratory in Georgia has allegedly tested deadly bioweapons on Georgian citizens.

    Wuhan was chosen for the attack because the local presence of the Wuhan Institute of Virology offers the Pentagon and CIA a convenient cover story about bio-experiments gone awry.
    [TOLD you so !
    plausible deniability]

    the supposedly Pentagon-funded U.S. laboratories in Eurasia have been collecting and treating genetic material from Russian and Chinese populations to allegedly create an “ethnically specific” virus that only targets certain peoples. Russian military expert Viktor Baranets agrees, adding that biological warfare has become a new weapon “in the American fight for global supremacy against its main adversaries.”
    [told you so
    [[[sobs]]] collected Chinese DNA before the SARS1 attack and the current SARS2]

    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/some-russia-think-coronavirus-us-biological-weapon-121731

    • Agree: Alfred
  210. denk says:

    And now……
    Suddendly we heard about a locust disaster in Africa that has already spread to ……India !

    China watch out !

    After attacking the livestock, [[[sobs]]] might go for the food crops !!

  211. Ron Unz says:
    @Ron Unz

    Actually, someone pointed out that the Coronavirus outbreak occurred at the absolute peak of the Chinese holiday travel season, the ideal time for having it spread very rapidly before being detected.

    Obviously, any natural or accidental outbreak would generally tend to occur at some random time of year, so this somewhat increases the likelihood that it was a biowarfare attack against China.

    It’s also intriguing that Charles Lieber, a very high-ranking Harvard professor with strong China ties, was suddenly arrested and dragged off in shackles for what amounts to some sort of technical issue of misreporting his Chinese funding from many years ago.

    Frankly, I’ve *never* heard of anything like that happening before to a mainstream academic, especially for some technical-reporting violation. I wonder whether it isn’t just meant to intimidate all American academics who might consider voicing their suspicions about the Coronavirus outbreak. Maybe the NSA even discovered that Lieber was expressing some personal doubts about the official Coronavirus story in his emails or phone calls.

    After all, if a likely future Harvard Nobel Laureate can be dragged off in chains and face many years in prison for a supposed financial-reporting-violation, I’d think that lots of ordinary professors would think twice before questioning the Coronavirus story with MSM journalists…

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Tusk
  212. @Wizard of Oz

    Wizard,

    I always thought those Indian “doctors” couldn’t be trusted to do their jobs properly. From those statistics it would appear that at least a quarter of them may be worth something.

  213. denk says:

    After all, if a likely future Harvard Nobel Laureate can be dragged off in chains and face many years in prison for a supposed financial-reporting-violation, I’d think that lots of ordinary professors would think twice before questioning the Coronavirus story with MSM journalists…

    Also, they’ll think twice before joining China’s
    one thousand talents program, an initiative to attract top talents all over the world to accelerate the progress of Made In China 2025 proj, for which Lieber is a member.

    [[[sobs]]] might even put LIeber thru the wringer,
    solitary confinement, deprivement of sleep, threat of more serious trumped up charges, to force a confession that slander China.

    Remember the case of Lee Wen HO ?

  214. denk says:

    How the [[[sobs]]] gagged the whistle blowers of biowarfare in the Korean war…..

    During and after the Korean War, China produced considerable evidence that the US military was employing biological pathogens against both the Chinese and the North Koreans. More than 25 US POWs supported Chinese claims – and provided further, and very detailed, corroborating evidence of anthrax, various insects such as mosquitoes and fleas carrying Yellow Fever, and even propaganda leaflets infected with cholera, over the entire North-East of China and virtually all of North Korea. The US government immediately filed charges of sedition against the soldiers who told their stories of these illegal activities, applying enormous pressure to silence them, even threatening defending lawyers with unspecified retribution. As a final desperate attempt to silence these former POWs, the US military relied on the CIA to subject them to extensive treatments with a newly-discovered and dangerous drug called Metrazol, in attempts to totally erase all memories of their activities in Korea, apparently destroying the mens’ minds in the process.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-geopolitical-deployment-of-biological-weapons/5703005

  215. denk says:

    [[[they]]] might be doing their damndest to make a Lee Wen Ho outta poor Lieber…..

    WEN HO LEE / You Call This Justice? /
    Presumed guilty until proven innocent

    https://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/WEN-HO-LEE-You-Call-This-Justice-Presumed-2883532.php

  216. d dan says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Thanks Wizard of Oz.

    China sacrifices a province, with its concomitant lose of GDP of easily 100’s billions (bigger than the GDP of many countries in the world). Thousands of people are braving in the front lines selflessly, while around the clock everyday, I hear touching stories about ordinary and nameless Chinese’s gallant battles.

    And what are all these for? They not only save China, they also save the world. Imagine if China let the disease spread like the way US managed H1N1. How many thousands will die? Imagine if it goes to India, Africa and other developing countries, how many millions will be infected? How much damage to the economies will it cause? How much misery is enough for people?

    China does not expect a “thank you” note from everyone, but is it too much to expect decent people to hold their words of despise for a moment?

    • Replies: @thetruth
    , @Adûnâi
  217. @Ron Unz

    “Shackled”!! I was so surprised I had to check, but, yes, it’s the good ol’ USA and Harvard Professors have no right to expect less humiliation than everyday muggers. In so far as it’s a case of financial crime maybe someone was looking to catch up on Harvard after seeing Larry Summers get away scot free.

    A warning shot? Fortunately I see the response of at least a few thousand of America’s “ordinary professors” who read the arrest as a warning as quite likely to cook up provocations which would make the FBI or whatever look pretty silly.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  218. d dan says:
    @d dan

    Latest numbers (Feb 14):

    New case: 4047
    New suspected case: 2807
    New death: 121

    So, it looks like yesterday numbers (new case: 14,840; new death: 242) are one-time adjustment. These newest numbers are still slightly elevated compare with the numbers before the introduction of new “clinical diagnosis” method. But it certainly will be better to be aggressive at this stage of the battle.

  219. denk says:

    That notorious Cock’s report….
    The chicoms are stealing all our secrets !!!
    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-jul-21-me-58074-story.html

    Even today , murkkan sheeples gleefully lap up every fukus agitprop, …
    The chicoms are stealing all our secrets,
    they’r hacking into the Pentagon, the MIC, etc etc..
    our bank accounts, our health records…

    OMFG,
    There’s no place we can hide from the chicoms…

    P,S,
    And they keep telling us,
    We whiteys have the highest IQ,
    OMFG !

  220. KA says:
    @Glaivester

    No it started in Kansas . That’s proven and known to historian and academic .

  221. Tusk says:
    @Ron Unz

    I would imagine an outbreak would have the highest chance to naturally occur during peak travel periods, to me this doesn’t really provide any information in regards to it being a bioweapon. With increased interactions between many people overlapping via travel a virus can spread through many potential hosts at once.
    i.e. https://pneumonia.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s41479-017-0026-1

    Considering that isolation and a quarantine are used to stop the spread of a virus, it is clearly unlikely that a pandemic would happen during a quiet and isolated part of the year.

    I certainly agree that if one were releasing a bioweapon this would be ideal to get maximum coverage but I simply can’t agree that it really increases the likelyhood that it was, since a naturally occuring virus would have increased chances in the same environment.

    It also seems odd if this was just a “test” as some people allege. China would now have direct experience in organising and managing an outbreak, they can also plan for redundencies for supply lines and transport routes if hubs are taken out. Why would you deploy it as a test when it makes the real thing less effective? If they wanted to test the spread of a racial-virus surely America could deploy it in a majority Chinese area in America (as they have done in previous cases) and easily test effectiveness and allow for a clean cover up.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  222. Ron Unz says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “Shackled”!! I was so surprised I had to check, but, yes, it’s the good ol’ USA and Harvard Professors have no right to expect less humiliation than everyday muggers.

    That raises an interesting point…

    America has been around for nearly 250 years, and I’m wondering whether this is the first time in our entire national history that a mainstream academic has been dragged off in chains…

    And by the most astonishing coincidence, it happens to a top Harvard professor with huge expertise in viruses and personal links to China at exactly the same time that an enormously deadly and somewhat mysterious viral outbreak occurs in China…

    Hmmm…

  223. KA says:

    From April 12, 2009 to April 10, 2010, CDC estimated there were 60.8 million cases (range: 43.3-89.3 million), 274,304 hospitalizations (range: 195,086-402,719), and 12,469 deaths (range: 8868-18,306) in the United States due to the (H1N1)pdm09 virus

    Additionally, CDC estimated that 151,700-575,400 people worldwide died from (H1N1)pdm09 virus infection during the first year the virus circulated.**

    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html

  224. thetruth says:
    @d dan

    The U.S. gov. has been trying so hard to launch a color revolution in China, ALL failed miserably. So now they are using this opportunity to fulfill their dream. They can go kiss their dream goodbye.
    NOT in a hundred year they could be successful in changing the political system in China. The reason is, vast majority of Chinese are happy with China’s current political system!

  225. thetruth says:
    @d dan

    thank you, well said.

    Bloomberg has an article “China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus”
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-05/china-sacrifices-a-province-to-save-the-world-from-coronavirus

  226. Ron Unz says:
    @Ron Unz

    For those so interested, here’s a very long presentation of the Biowarfare Hypothesis from some American ex-pat living in China. He seems a little eccentric, so I wouldn’t necessarily take his verdict too seriously, but he has gathered together a wealth of seemingly useful information and links, and I’ve now republished his compendium on this website:

    https://www.unz.com/article/was-the-2020-wuhan-coronavirus-an-engineered-biological-attack-on-china-by-america-for-geopolitical-advantage/

    • Thanks: utu
  227. Anon[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tom Welsh

    I’ve heard the theory that the virus was developed China as a way of testing vaccines, and I suspect that may well be true, and the virus escaped from the lab by accident. The problem is, the Chinese have a very cavalier attitude towards germs. They spit on the street, etc., and care little about cleanliness.

    Normally, anything a person develops as a weapon by government order would normally never be unleashed against the people controlled by that government. That can lead to revolution. But accidents can and do happen.

    China’s history is filled with an incredible amount of own goals. They screw up to a degree that really isn’t normal. The only other country in Southeast Asia that’s run by bigger idiots is North Korea. All the others seem to do better than China and North Korea, or end up tormenting their own people less.

    I think the potential of the Chinese to function as a modern people in a modern society is definitely lower than you would expect. Modern culture is something they imported. They didn’t grow it naturally the way the West did, and the Chinese aren’t well adapted to it. They’re still peasants at heart.

    • Troll: utu
  228. @Ron Unz

    It would indeed be surprising if the FBI man with a geopolitical opinion he thinks we should know about who features in the following linked article did not see particular advantage in arresting and prosecuting someone as distinguished as Charles Lieber.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/28/us/charles-lieber-harvard.html

    However there is reason to doubt that the coronavirus outbreak is more than coincidental given the dates and other cases mentioned in that article AND having regard to the fact that your statement about Lieber having special knowledge of viruses may be wrong. I draw your attention to the following two quotes from the NY Times article:

    “Dr. Lieber, a leader in the field of nanoscale electronics”

    “[In 2017] he earned the N.I.H. Director’s Pioneer Award for inventing syringe-injectable mesh electronics that can integrate with the brain.”

    If anyone wanted to find an example of a mainstream academic being dragged off in chains over the last 250 years I would start searching for events covering Germans and 1917 [Einstein would probably have been nabbed if already at Princeton] ,Japanese and WW2, and wife murdering professors….

  229. Anonymous[409] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    Lieber is a chemist, so you’d think he wouldn’t have much to do with viruses. But it turns out that he isn’t just an ordinary chemist but worked on nanomaterials and nanoelectronics that can detect viruses and pathogens released during biological weapons attacks.

    This Harvard Gazette article from 15 years ago discusses Lieber’s work in this area and its applications in detecting biological weapons:

    https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2004/10/sensor-detects-identifies-single-viruses/

    Two of the world’s biggest threats may someday be reduced by wires thousands of times thinner than a hair but capable of detecting a single virus. The specter of worldwide viral epidemics is always with us, so detecting them quickly offers the possibility of saving thousands of lives. The pathogens also can be stealthy biological weapons, making their positive detection a vital national defense requirement.

    “We want to find a single virus before it finds you,” says Charles Lieber, Hyman Professor of Chemistry at Harvard University. Tests recently completed in his laboratory show that these unimaginably thin nanowires can sense and distinguish between viruses that cause flu, measles, and eye infections. Lieber believes future versions will be able to spot HIV, Ebola, SARS, West Nile, hepatitis, bird flu, and other dangerous viruses.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  230. Ron Unz says:
    @Anonymous

    Lieber is a chemist, so you’d think he wouldn’t have much to do with viruses. But it turns out that he isn’t just an ordinary chemist but worked on nanomaterials and nanoelectronics that can detect viruses and pathogens released during biological weapons attacks.

    This Harvard Gazette article from 15 years ago discusses Lieber’s work in this area and its applications in detecting biological weapons:

    Exactly. Frankly, I’d never heard of Lieber except as a chemist, but when I Googled his name plus viruses, a whole bunch of things came up. And he gets dragged off in shackles *exactly* at the moment the huge viral outbreak in China is reaching the national headlines.

    Seems like an *awfully* big coincidence to me.

    It really wouldn’t surprise me if Lieber had been discussing the possibility of Coronavirus being a US biowarfare attack against China with some of his friends on the phone or Email and the NSA or whatever found out about it and decided to nip such academic speculation in the bud…

  231. Anon[198] • Disclaimer says:

    The latest update I’ve seen is that Beijing has declared martial law, and at least one medical school is sending its students to treat people at Wuhan. That means the infections have reached numbers so high in Wuhan that their doctor and nurses are overwhelmed.

    One aspect of the COV-19 is that the initial death percentage is going to be highest at the beginning. Why? Because people who are most likely to die in a pandemic don’t die at the end of it. Because these victims already have medical issues that make them more vulnerable to it, they go early. This causes a skew in the death ratio. As pandemic ages, the death ratio drops after the most vulnerable are weeded out.

    2-4% is the number that keeps popping up. In the beginning, I’m willing to bet the death rate is higher than 4%, but near the end it will be lower than 1%.

    One point that needs to be mentioned is that a study indicates the average person with COV-19 infects 5.5 people. It spreads before any symptoms appear. If you track down and quarantine people when no more than a single digit amount of people have the disease, you can stay on top of it and quash it. But Singapore and Hong Kong have at least 50 people infected, meaning they likely already have 300-odd people who are infected who haven’t been found, and who are currently spreading the disease around unnoticed. They’re screwed at this point. They can’t control it with numbers like that.

    Thailand, Japan, and South Korea are headed for major trouble if they don’t quash their cases in the next two days. They literally have no more than that amount of time to track down all the infected and quarantine them before it’s out of control completely.

    • Troll: Ber
  232. Ron Unz (236.) says:

    “It really wouldn’t surprise me if Lieber had been discussing the possibility of Coronavirus being a US biowarfare attack against China with some of his friends on the phone or Email and the NSA or whatever found out about it and decided to nip such academic speculation in the bud…”

    I must say those were my thoughts as well. Perhaps I’m too suspicious of coincidences, but those suspicions prove too often to have been justified.

    And it surely does serve as a warning to many thousands of ‘research academics’ who are funded in one way or another by the Defense Department – as was Lieber in several projects. From this, I would deduce that he knew many things the authorities would prefer to be kept secret.

  233. Anonymous[269] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    The theory has some merit.

    But according to Mike Pompeo it’s a lot more then Lieber. A whole lot more. And not just academics. United States governors, predominately in sanctuary cities, who have been taking bribes from China and making individual deals.

    Why isn’t it just as likely that Lieber and other US Jewish academics who hate America and are ideologically supportive of communism were committing treason against the United States and giving China intel on how to make a weapon against the United States?

    It’s as if the House UnAmerican Committee and McCarthy never existed. Not only were they 100% correct in practically every case they determined treason, they massively understated the scale of the subversion.

    There are multiple accounts out of Canada and the United States of Chinese citizens and military personnel being caught stealing IP and biological materials.

    Isn’t it just as possible that the type of Jews who supported the Soviet Union are now the same type of Jews trying to support China to destroy America?

    Or this is some kind of struggle between Israeli’s who want to pivot to China, and those who have decided it’s too risky. The Talpiot plan and Israel’s integration into Belt and Road and giving China the Port of Haifa is a strikingly independent course of action vis a vis the ‘special relationship’.

    Or, if Lieber is a good man trying to whistle-blow to China, why can’t it be related to the theory that this is a City of London Corporation/Pirbright Institute event or test for generalized population control.

    It seems very cavalier to ascribe this to the ‘United States’ when there are so many more specific classifications that could be used. Like, Liberal Jews, or Israelis – after all, Israel awarded Lieber the Wolf Prize.

    It seems insane to deploy a virus that can mutate in the field with such a long incubation period in an international hub where it will infect all of your own populations. And there is plenty of chatter along with quarantine camps to support that possibility.

    Why would all these Communist ultra-progressive western civilization hating academics be the good guys.

    Maybe Lieber is a good man.

    But if there had been masses of Liberal Jews committing treason and taking money from Communists in return for intel and IP and they all got arrested… I’m sure the hapless goyim will cry copious tears and drown in sorrow.

    This isn’t the United States vs China. This is Jews vs China – the only question is which Jews.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Ber
  234. Alfred says:
    @Anonymous

    They’re inter-marrying (Zuckerberg) and learning Mandarin

    Don’t forget the Australian/American Rupert Murdoch of News International fame. His ex is Chinese. He thought that he could expand his mind-control empire into China. But the Chinese did not play along.

    Is Rupert Murdoch’s Ex a Chinese Spy?

    When his wife had an affair with our very own Tony Blair, he had to divorce her. What a shame. A marriage made in heaven. 🙂

    Wendi Deng’s ‘love note for Tony Blair’ published

  235. Alfred says:
    @Tusk

    Why would you deploy it as a test when it makes the real thing less effective?

    The politics demanded a “solution” now – not in 2 years.

    Economic and financial sanctions are a form of war. By tweaking the exchange rate of the Turkish Lira, for example, great pressure can be exerted on Erdogan to do what they want him to do. That is why Russia moved its reserves out of the USD and much of it into Gold. The Chinese cannot do that as their reserves are much greater and it would bring down the world economy – on which they depend. The Russians can keep their economy going even if there is no external trade.

    The USA is essentially in a war against countries like Syria, Iran, Yemen, Venezuela, Russia and China. In a war, you cannot wait for the perfect tank or missile to be developed. You use what is currently available even if it is somewhat deficient. As anyone can see, this virus is doing ample damage to the Chinese economy and to the confidence of the Chinese people in their government. What more can they wish for?

  236. Ron Unz (232.) says:

    “For those so interested, here’s a very long presentation of the Biowarfare Hypothesis from some American ex-pat living in China. He seems a little eccentric, so I wouldn’t necessarily take his verdict too seriously, but he has gathered together a wealth of seemingly useful information and links, and I’ve now republished his compendium on this website:”

    Was the 2020 Wuhan Coronavirus an Engineered Biological Attack on China by America for Geopolitical Advantage?

    Metallicman • January 27, 2020

    https://www.unz.com/article/was-the-2020-wuhan-coronavirus-an-engineered-biological-attack-on-china-by-america-for-geopolitical-advantage/

    That article by Metallicman was plagiarised (the 40% that’s not ‘eccentric’) from articles by Larry Romanoff that were published on Global Research. Dozens of paragraphs are copied verbatim without attribution.

  237. Alfred says:
    @Ron Unz

    Lieber’s expertise was in testing for the presence of viruses – hundreds of them from a tiny sample and in one process. A huge improvement over current methods. Others have tried doing that so he is not alone.

    A Medical Chip That Could Do 100 Tests on One Drop of Blood (2015)

    In developing countries, Claros plans to sell mChips for $1 each and the portable analyzer for less than $500. Many lab-based tests cost more than $100 each

    A Blood Test on a Chip. Claros Diagnostics has created the mChip, which can produce accurate test results from a single drop of blood in 10 minutes

    I am very interested in this area as I had a US patent (5,108,131) that would have benefited from such a test. My patent received the approval of the FDA as a “medical device”. I was thinking at the time of HIV but it is applicable to any TESTABLE infection or genetic condition.

    By testing directly for the virus rather than for anti-bodies, the test become much more useful for isolation purposes. For example, those with a negative test result on the ship at Yokohama could be immediately allowed to leave the ship and the others can undergo treatment if necessary. This would prevent those leaving the ship from getting infected and passing the infection on to others.

    Apparatus and method for controlling transmission of defects

    The point I am getting at is that bioweapons can be rendered less effective if there were a really rapid, cheap and accurate way of testing people and animals. I don’t think the Americans want the Chinese to be good at that. Obviously, the Chinese society is much better adapted at using such technology than anyone in the West.

  238. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    https://www.nature.com/articles/424601a (2003)
    But not all of DARPA’s programmes are problematic. Many credit the agency with developing the Internet, and it has long been a favourite among bright researchers with unconventional ideas. “Compared with agencies such as the National Science Foundation, DARPA takes much bigger chances,” says Harris, who has DARPA funding to develop a thumbnail-sized fluorometer that can detect chemical and biological agents. DARPA’s generous funding and goal-oriented programmes allow researchers to “do more than just incremental science”, adds Charles Lieber, a nanotechnology researcher at Harvard University.

    Electrical detection of single viruses (2004)
    https://www.pnas.org/content/101/39/14017

    Xiaowei Zhuang, Charles Lieber, and colleagues at Harvard Uni- versity have detected single virus particles in real time by measuring conductance changes with nanowire field-effect transistors.
    https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/ac0416766

    Xiaowei Zhuang – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiaowei_Zhuang

  239. @Ron Unz

    Apologies for failing to detect Lieber’s interest in viruses. Your speculated connection to the Wuhan outbreak gains much plausibility. I blame my reliance on a single NYT article for my ignorance.

    As to the literate but rambling conspiracy theory of the “eccentric” American expat…

    https://www.unz.com/article/was-the-2020-wuhan-coronavirus-an-engineered-biological-attack-on-china-by-america-for-geopolitical-advantage/

    there were a number of red flags to prompt deep scepticism. I choose just the following to illustrate my point

    “Recent disease outbreaks that would seem to possibly qualify as potential bio-warfare agents are AIDS, SARS, MERS, Bird Flu, Swine Flu, Hantavirus, Lyme Disease, West Nile Virus, Ebola, Polio (Syria), Foot and Mouth Disease, the Gulf War Syndrome and ZIKA.

    In fact, thousands of prominent scientists, physicians, virologists and epidemiologists on many continents have concurred that all these viruses were lab-created and their release deliberate. The recent swine flu epidemic in China has the hallmarks as well, with circumstantial evidence of the outbreak raising only questions.”

    That some American living in China with no known relevant expertise can come out with such assertions perfectly blandly as though he can’t see the faintest scepticism to be answered does make one wonder what mental world he lives in.

    And, I have chosen this because it fits my doubts about some of your reliance on people whom you choose to endorse somewhat blithely for reasons not obvious. I shall return to the subject of your particular attachment to one “How” issue wrt the 9/11 collapses, namely the nanothermite residue attested to by a number of scientists you deem respectable enough.

    It is perhaps worth noting, on the potentially critical thermite question, that NIST’s response that the train of possession of what were said (contestably I note) to be nanothermite fragments in WTC debris was not clear. The scientists asked for NIST to repeat the tests on material it could vouch for, according to Wikipedia, but “NIST did not”. Although there was suspicion raised about the clearing up of the WTC site by a number of specialist contractors there appears to be nothing untoward proved concerning the speed or methods of the clean up. It is at least unproven that NIST would or should have micro material preserved and accurately sourced and labeled. Even the greatest 9/11 knowalls on UR make few claims to knowing that there were demolitions to be investigated as early as September 2001. While I track down further material let me observe that discussion with trial lawyers and judges might raise your level of scepticism about all expert witnesses (and look at medical research non replication and the problems with “climate science”). Also I note the way letters and articles signed by several academic colleagues get connected and published: e.g. Jones owes Smith his signature in return for an earlier favour; Black is junior enough to be delighted to be a signatory with White; Johnson will back anything Jackson does.

    Next stop is to go back and read thoroughly

    https://drive.mobisystems.com/sharelink/anZjZ3Vlc3RAZ21haWwuY29t.26ILk96Nnujh2fdfVXCgPW

    If you haven’t read it I think you should. And if you have and have, after careful consideration, dismissed its probative value for non-truthers I apologise.

  240. countercurrents.org: ” Western anti-Chinese propaganda exaggerates Coronavirus danger , creates panic ” By Andre Vithcek
    “It seems racist paranoia is obviously at work here – remember all the fantasies about the Chinese women in Wuhan skinning snakes alive and slurping bat soup . Whereas , in reality , a big Chinese city is one of the safest places in the World.” Slavoj Zizek writing in RT .
    BBC Report : “A report on the early stages of the outbreak by the medical journal “Lancet” said most patients who died from the virus had pre-existing conditions. Most people infected are expected to fully recover just as they would from the normal flu ”
    globalresearch.ca :”America’s ‘Medical Deep State’ .The role of the CDC ” By Richard Gale and Dr. Gary Null : “During the past year, especially in recent months , the fear-mongering spewing forth from the CDC has become virulent. It is a classic Orwellian script . The recent measles outbreak…has been used to brainwash the public and reshape it into obedient livestock in order to increase vaccine compliance .Worse ,the DISINFORMATION campaign ignores everything we know about measles infection and the failure of the MMR vaccine.”
    Former employees have tried to warn the public about corruption at the CDC and its conflicts of interest with pharmaceutical companies . Can we trust the CDC ?

    • Replies: @9/11 Inside job
  241. Ber says:

    ” …discussing the possibility of Coronavirus being a US biowarfare attack against China …” Quite probable. However what do you make of this below? (February 6, 2020 report) Thanks.

    “In a very strage turn of events, renowned scientist Frank Plummer who received Saudi SARS Coronavirus sample and was working on Coronavirus (HIV) vaccine in the Winnipeg based Canadian lab from where the virus was smuggled by Chinese Biowarfare agents and weaponized as revealed in GreatGameIndia investigation, has died in mysterious conditions. Frank Plummer was the key to the Chinese Biological Espionage case at Winnipeg’s National Microbiology Laboratory.”

    https://greatgameindia.com/frank-plummer-canadian-lab-scientist-key-to-coronavirus-investigation-assassinated/

    • Replies: @denk
  242. denk says:
    @Ber

    Frank Olsen was suicided cuz he knew too much about CIA’s Mkultra,

    David Kelly and friends were suicided cuz they knew too much about fukus ‘race specific bio weapon‘ program,

    My guess…..PLummer was killed cuz he knew too much aBout fukus ‘caper‘ in Wuhan ??

    almost 100 defence scientists died bet 2001 to 2005, many were bioweapoon experts like Kelly specialising in ‘genetic manipulation and DNA sequencing’,

    2003.
    SARS1 broke up in China , HK, Singapore, TW, ….

    2020..
    SARS2 looks another ‘Chinese‘ specific virus,
    How is that for ‘race specific’ ?

    Whats one more dead scientist to the satanists who rule fukus ??

    https://www.stevequayle.com/index.php?s=190

    P,.S.
    You’r prolly unfamiliar with Indian cow dung, which stink even worse than murkkan bullshit.
    Non of the assertions in that article were substantiated.

  243. denk says:

    a senior National Security Council official” warning about the implications of the rise of Huawei to become the world’s biggest supplier of telecommunications equipment and that it was leading the field in the development of 5G.

    We are losing it,” the memo said. “Whoever leads in technology and market share for 5G deployment will have a tremendous advantage towards … commanding the heights of the information domain.”

    The memo said 5G was “by no means simply a ‘faster 4G’” but was “a change more like the invention of the Gutenberg press” as it would bring faster speeds, lower lead times between the network and the device and had a much larger capacity to transfer data. [1]

    [MORE]

    There’s a certain amount of desperation here as the U.S. government tries to figure out what do on 5G,” said Washington lawyer David Hanke, a former GOP congressional aide. Hanke, however, said Barr’s suggestion might be “the least-worst option” for dealing with Huawei, since the alternative would be permanent Chinese domination of the global market for 5G technology. [2]

    Trump ‘apoplectic’ with UK over Huawei 5G decision as US suggests taking stake in Nokia, Ericsson [3]

    The Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee heard from witnesses about the skills and training needed for workers in making fifth-generation wireless technology, so-called 5G networks, a widespread American reality.

    “Estimates suggest there are approximately 27,000 tower climbers prepared to install 5G equipment,” said Sen. Roger Wicker, a Mississippi Republican who chairs the committee.

    However, it’s projected that 20,000 more tower climbers are needed to accelerate the deployment of 5G in order to win the race and secure the advantage in the United States.” [4]

    Despite the truce in the United States-China trade wars, the tech wars between Washington and Beijing are intensifying. Most immediate is the struggle over who will build the new, superfast fifth-generation, or 5G, cellular networks that will revolutionize the way we live by empowering the use of artificial intelligence and other cutting-edge technologies.

    Huawei is a name you should know.

    As China’s leading telecoms company, Huawei is the global leader in the race to build 5G networks, followed by the European firms Nokia and Ericsson. However, Washington is trying to ban Huawei from doing business with the U.S. or our allies for fear that the Chinese military could insert a “backdoor” into its equipment for spying.

    Yet, sad to say, the United States has no telecoms giant to compete with Huawei. This is as important a part of the story as the curbs on the tech company. [5]

    Re Wuhan bioweapon attack…
    Whats the motive ?

    1] hit China’s economy.
    2] Make the Chinese pariah of 21C
    3] Trigger an exodus of hi tech from China
    4] Force the Chinese to surrender in the trade war,

    We can now add….
    5] Stall or scuttle China’s 5g roll out, for which Wuhan is the pioneer.

    ———————–
    [1]
    https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/12/14/huaw-d14.html

    [2]
    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/feb/7/barrs-call-for-us-control-of-5g-providers-quickly-/

    [3]
    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/07/us-should-take-stake-in-nokia-ericsson-to-counter-huawei-in-5g-barr.html

    [4]
    https://www.newspressnow.com/news/local_news/hearing-explores-creating-a-g-workforce/article_03a73e0c-3d50-11ea-be2d-ff99bf82351f.html

    [5]
    https://www.omaha.com/opinion/trudy-rubin-g-is-part-of-the-u-s-/article_239f4ea0-e517-5d74-8cc8-d7c3a671edb5.html

  244. denk says:

    Was Mike Ruppert another one suicided for knowing too much and dunno how to keep his mouth shut ?

    https://aanirfan.blogspot.com/2014/04/investigative-journalist-michael.html

    • Replies: @denk
  245. denk says:
    @denk

    Mike Ruppert was the author of that dead microbiologist article….

  246. KA says:
    @Ron Unz

    The immense venom with which some news media and online sources have attacked Chinese of duplicity and laziness dont surprise me but help to consider the possibility that they are just trumpeting the brilliance responsibility carefulness and innocence of the Western countries.
    Instead f accusing Lieber at this moment ,USA should have asked him regarding the threat to USA , shall have asked him to throw lights on stemming the tide of the outbreak and and shed lights on possible vaccine or other remedies. This was not the time to shackle him for a crime that are not out of ordinary or incongruous with American way of ding business .

    The worst part is the explicit message that China has released engineered virus to kill its own people.

    • Replies: @Adûnâi
  247. d dan says:

    In a touching video from the rainy streets of Wuhan, a husband drives behind his wife, using his headlights to light her way to work at the hospital.

    The wife has quarantined herself from her family, worried that she may catch the coronavirus through her job and subsequently infect her husband and children.

    She stays at a hotel and walks to work each day.

    Since she refuses to get in the car with her husband, he’s decided to drive behind her each evening as she makes the trek to begin her night shift.

    The wife says that when she gets back from work, her husband has a cooked meal waiting for her at her hotel room.

    They never speak to each other in person, relying on video chat to communicate.

    ❤️ SUPPORT WUHAN, SUPPORT CHINA ❤️

    https://shanghai.ist/2020/02/13/wuhan-doctor-quarantines-herself-from-family-husband-lights-her-way-to-work-each-night/

    • Troll: Tusk
  248. Adûnâi says:
    @d dan

    “Imagine if it goes to India, Africa and other developing countries, how many millions will be infected?”

    Why would that be a cause for grief? The fewer subhumans, the better. Personally, I am delighted that the DPRK’s quarantine seems to be working.

    There is no humanity, there is nation. And nation is more than a sum of individuals.

  249. Adûnâi says:
    @KA

    “The immense venom with which some news media and online sources have attacked Chinese of duplicity and laziness dont surprise me”

    But how does that reconcile with the rampant pro-Chinese propaganda in Western media regarding domestic anti-Chinese sentiment? As folks say, “Let the chink cough on you to proof you are not racist”. Or do you mean the anti-Party rhetoric? Because Westerners physically cannot utter a positive thing about any socialist party in history, this is nothing out of the ordinary.

    • Replies: @KA
  250. Anonymous[163] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Isn’t it just as possible that the type of Jews who supported the Soviet Union are now the same type of Jews trying to support China to destroy America?

    The type of liberal and leftist Jews that might have been sympathetic to the USSR in the past are today firmly part of the American establishment and tend not to be very supportive of China, which they regard as illiberal and authoritarian. George Soros has made no secret about his hostility to China. Other prominent Jewish American liberal elites like Kenneth Roth, head of Human Rights Watch, are not supportive of China.

    Then there are the diehard Jewish socialists like Bernie Sanders, who are nowadays few in number and quite old. They tend not to be particularly interested in China, let alone supportive of it.

  251. Anon[137] • Disclaimer says:

    An important paper has just come out with information about COV19. New research just published about says that men are dying at three times the rate of women. 4.45 vs. 1.25%.

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.10.20021675v1.full.pdf

    Men are also getting COV19 slightly more than women. Those who end up very sick from it tend to be older, and they’re more often male.

    71% of all cases are people between the ages of 30 and 65. Suspected cases echoes this pattern. This is what happened with the Spanish Flu is 1918, in which the middle-aged got socked hard.

    The report says that after January 17, more people outside Wuhan were getting COV19 than inside the city, using confirmed cases as a metric. The Spring festival and migrant workers are being blamed for spreading it. Migrant workers are more likely to be male than female.

    Since half of all Chinese men smoke, and only a small percentage of women do, this appears to be a major factor in the death rate. Even in normal circumstances, smokers get pneumonia at twice the rate that non-smokers do.

    I’m not sure Chinese doctors are asking if their patients are smokers. We do it here in the US, but this vital data metric is missing from China.

  252. @9/11 Inside job

    “There are either 65,000 cases of COVID-19 or 47,000 . It’s down to WHO you trust and how you count” dailykos.com
    globalresearch.ca : “Politics and corruption at the World Health Organization (WHO) “: “One could say that the H1N1 viral pandemic , version 2009 ,has so far produced no more than a mouse .But what a fabulous show for the media! What a brilliantly organized panic!”By Pascal Sacre, translated from a French article.
    It appears that you can’t trust the CDC or WHO . Can we trust any of the numbers being reported about the number of Coronavirus cases and the number of deaths ?

  253. I’m starting to lose faith in science. Imagine that they discovered that Chinese tourists carry a deadly virus yet never discovered that all those millions of refugees crossing borders into US and EU illegally, without quarantine, are carriers of far deadlier yet undiscovered diseases, in fact of cocktails of known and unknown communicable and deadly diseases. Duh.

  254. KA says:
    @Adûnâi

    ampant pro-Chinese propaganda in Western media regarding domestic anti-Chinese sentiment?”

    Are you referring to the extent of the anti Chinese(leadership) sentiment of the mainland Chinese highlighted and exaggerated by the western media ?

    That makes sense .

    Otherwise the sentence doesn’t make much sense to me.

    • Replies: @Adûnâi
  255. Bioweapon spread on a foreign land…wait wait , I ve already heard this somewhere…Oh yeah I recall ! At the movie theater. “ALIEN COVENANT”. And the film was hmm…american. What a surprise. Not a proof but anoter clue.

  256. @Ron Unz

    I’ve seen zero evidence that the Coronavirus is a bioweapon—Ron Unz

    Wuhan 400 has many factor gains.
    1. It is much smaller in microns so it can infect at a greater distance. Sars infected at 2-3 ft and Wuhan at 6-8 ft. Factor gain=3-4x

    2. R(o)= it is not like a regular flu. It probably has an R naught of 3-4.5. We are seeing this on the cruise ship outbreak where it spread like wild fire through either a poor quality plumbing system (no p traps) or venting or both. Serious gain in virulence from Sars. Just look at the lying CPC numbers of deaths. Even low balled this is making Sars look like a walk in the park. Death Gain.

    3. Asymptomatic: people carry it but don’t show symptoms. The disease has a timeline among those who end up with a serious case of 3-4wks. The problem often occurs around day 10 with pneumonia. Another gain–>length of illness.

    There is also the fact that Pribright Institute patented (Europe and America) a coronavirus vaccine. That is hardly being mentioned.

    I suggest reading a transcript of Francis Boyle. He wrote the U.S. bio-weapons legislation in the 80’s and was interviewed weeks ago by Great Game India.

    China has been hit hard for over 15 years. Sars, hxny avian and human flus, swine flus hitting their independent protein supply, etcetera ad nauseum. The Chinese have higher hygienic standards than Africa and India yet continue to get hammered.
    This is bio-warfare. The evidence for this is extensive. Proving it in a court of law? Probably not. However, the Chinese have evidence of drone attacks from the recent swine flu that show the drones were made by one injection mold. So, prior planning of 6+ months, along with physical evidence of one source of the drones and that it was a costly, industrial process NOT the work of a bunch of guys in a back yard garage.

    This isn’t over. Zionist elements in U.S. government have decided that to maintain dominance it is simple to assassinate (Soleimani) and use bio-warfare (Wuhan). Neither of these types of actions are the work of rational adults in an open room. They are the actions of ruthless psychopaths who have infiltrated the corridors of power throughout our world.

  257. @Kim

    You are unaware that there was widespread cannibalism in some provinces during The Great Leap Forward? A little reading might be in order for you.

    65 million dead from famine in that little policy failure. These were deaths that resulted from an intentional policy. Note that there was at no time any famine in Taiwan. Because they did not intentionally attempt to implement communism.

    Capitalists are as likely implementing disastrous polices as communists. While the famine during GLF caused 16.5 million-30 million (2.5%-4.5% of the population) excess deaths in China, WW1 killed 20 million, or more than 4%, of the European population. WW2 was even worse: it killed more than 80 million worldwide, and maybe 40 million in Europe, more than 7% of its population. While the famine during GLF did have some natural causes (China did experience drought and flooding), both World Wars were purely man-made disasters.

    1. Small countries that did not implement communism. None of the three, in particular Japan or Taiwan, is resource-rich in comparison with China, which has a large population but also a large land mass.

    No, Japan is not communist, and it has an 80-year head-start over China since Meiji Restoration in 1868. However, that did not prevent it from making extremely bad decisions and bringing utter devastation to itself. By invading China and SE Asia, and initiating the Pacific War, Japan lost at least 3.1 million, or more than 4%, of its population. In addition, anywhere between 3 million to 14 million in Asia were killed by Japanese atrocities, depending on who you ask.

    2. China cut itself off from the world. It was intentionally attempting autarchy. And now that it has not cut itself off, it can be more prosperous. But the underlying point is, I suppose, that China’s rise depended on the evil West and could not have been achieved without the evil West.

    Nothing could be farther from the truth. China tried to establish good relations with those 3rd world countries that were not under the yoke of the West. They sent medical and construction teams to Africa. They played a rather active role in the early days of the Non-Aligned Movement. The west corporate elites had little intention to help China. What they liked was China’s cheap labor and potential market. I think they underestimated China.

    3. What wars did China fight to defend its borders post 1949? Ther was alittle tussle with Vietnam. A spat with the Soviet Union. An aggrandisement in Tibet. Hardly big enough to hold China back. Or do you mean the constant threats against Taiwan’s borders?

    The Korea War pretty much established China’s status in the international arena. China’s later development of nuclear weapons renders further actions unnecessary.

    4. China’s technological progress strangely always lags that of the West. Funny that. Couldn’t be because it always relies on technogical transfers of some kind (forced transfers, theft, spying, etc)?

    China has catched up or is already a leader in many fields: 5G, quantum communications, AI, supercomputers, satellite navigational systems etc etc. Not only that, China now has the world’s best academic institutions. It’s just a matter of time that China will pull farther ahead in many areas:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01920-1

    It’s too late to accuse China this or that. The matter of fact is that industrial espionage is universal. Every developed countries developed by stealing other’s secrets. Only a fool will not do it. Only a hypocrite will criticize it. And only a looser will complain about it.

    The point remains…the tyrranical and totalitarian system that dominates China is not responsible in a positive way for its current degree of economic prosperity. That is a result of Western forms of science and social organization. The Chinese aspects of Chinese government are in fact what hold it back.

    China’s current government is a far-cry from the days of GLF and Culture Revolution. It will keep reforming, evolving, and improving. Time shall tell which form of government will be best for China in the future.

    • Agree: Adûnâi
  258. utu says:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    “the Chinese have evidence of drone attacks from the recent swine flu that show the drones were made by one injection mold.” – I was trying to find confirmation for this claim but no luck.

  259. Ber says:
    @Anonymous

    “This isn’t the United States vs China.This is Jews vs China – the only question is which Jews.”

    Looks more like the bad Anglo cousins in this world are the main players. Of course some bad Jews are also involved. There are always baddies everywhere including Chinese. However more baddies appear to be in the West. Sad.

    • Replies: @utu
  260. Ber says:
    @utu

    See the video at comment 188 to get someone’s take on this.

    • Replies: @utu
  261. @utu

    I have to dig for that source but I can provide it.
    That source argues that swine flu attacks took place in rural areas over an extended period of time. Locals reported seeing drones and apparently some crashed and/or were shot down. Long story short: there is a body of evidence that the swine viral outbreak in Chinese agriculture was an attack on the food supply.
    Will the Chinese gather evidence, compile a dossier and confront the West? I don’t know.
    Public opinion in China: it will be a tough sell to convince the Chinese their own government did this. Given the years of attacks on chicken, pork and people I doubt it.
    Wuhan is just the latest in over 15 years of bio-warfare.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  262. utu says:
    @Ber

    There are always baddies everywhere including Chinese.

    CIA —> Falun Gong
    CIA/Israel /Turkey —> Uyghurs
    CIA —> Kuomintang/Taiwan
    CIA/Israel —> India

    Lost of coronavirus anti-China propaganda and pseudo news originate in India.

  263. utu says:
    @Ber

    The guy in the video is making the claim but w/o any source all I see is that he is planting the info about drones being all from the same source. To make such a claim somebody would have to have seen pictures of several drones captured in different place and provinces. He does not provide any source. Imo he is just flowing with the story helping it with small confabulations to improve the narrative.

    • Replies: @Ber
  264. @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    One would expect that Chinese authorities would have caught some of these agents releasing these biowarfare drones and unraveled the networks, started putting people on trial and executing them, showing us photos of the drones with explanations of the mode of action. I can understand that a lone agent opening a vial on some crowded street may go unnoticed but a network of agents operating these drone attacks would have surely been far easier to detect, identify, and apprehend. Maybe I’m wrong, but if these have been systematic attacks over a long period of time at various locations to attack many farms surely someone would have been caught by now.

  265. CanSpeccy says:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    Here’ s the Francis Boyle interview, which is pretty amazing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=373&v=TsyujjitOFM&feature=emb_logo

    Is this guy on the level, delivering US propaganda, or nuts?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @utu
  266. utu says:

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
    Report from Hubei province for February 14:

    2,420 new cases (including 1,138 clinically diagnosed)
    139 new deaths (including 34 clinically diagnosed)
    54,406 cumulative total cases (including 16,522 clinically diagnosed)
    38,107 currently hospitalized, of which:
    – 27,955 (73.4%) in mild condition
    – 8,276 (21.7%) serious
    – 1,876 (4.9%) critical
    912 new hospital discharges

  267. Ron Unz says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Here’ s the Francis Boyle interview, which is pretty amazing….Is this guy on the level, delivering US propaganda, or nuts?

    Well, I remember seeing Boyle’s name floating around during the original 2002 Anthrax attacks. Perhaps it’s unfair, but he always struck me as a leftist anti-biowarfare activist-crank. My guess is that people like that are fairly easily for Intelligence services to manipulate.

    I listened to a few minutes of his YouTube interview, and he seems to be saying that the Chinese had a biowarfare lab in Wehan, which accidentally released the virus, perhaps after having stolen it from the US. Offhand, that seems pretty implausible to me.

    First, Wehan is a huge city of 11M, not exactly the most sensible location for a biowarfare lab. Would the US put its biowarfare lab in the middle of NYC?

    Second, the virus was released just before Lunar New Year, the absolutely most disastrous time for a release in China because of the hundreds of millions of people traveling, potentially spreading the virus to the entire country. If the virus was somehow *accidentally* released, what is the likelihood it would happen at the absolutely worst time?

    The timing of the virus doesn’t fully rule out a natural event, but I do think it rules out an accidental release.

    Incidentally, I noticed that the WN/Conspiracy people at Red Ice had a show on the virus, and they seemed to suggest the PRC had *deliberately* released it to exterminate enough older Chinese people to save on future Social Security costs, which seems rather doubtful to me. Maybe somebody just gave Red Ice a financial big donation or something.

    Frankly, these totally absurd PRC-release narratives floating around on the Internet make me deeply suspicious that some Intelligence agency is orchestrating them, which shifts me a little further in the biowarfare direction.

    I have zero technical expertise in this area, but the whole thing seems very, very suspicious to me.

  268. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    On each of three occasions when Francis Boyle suggests that the virus was accidentally released from Wuhan lab he explicitly invokes the Occam razor meaning that he does not want to go to the higher level accusation (because of lack of evidence) which would imply deliberate release of the virus by (a) Chinese or (b) non-Chinese agency. Unfortunately the guy who did the interview failed to ask him a direct question about it.

    What is interesting that:

    Francis Boyle is pretty certain that the coronavirus was man-made. He believes that the vaccine already exists based on the patent held by Pirbright Institute (UK) (2019-11-20
    Application granted).

    https://patents.google.com/patent/EP3172319B1/en

    Francis Boyle is pretty certain that various farm animal epidemics from the past like the swine fever or the foot-and-mouth in the UK were caused by the man-made viruses or bacterias. However he does not speculate if they were release deliberately.

    Francis Boyle seems to believe that the safety of level 4 labs (BSL-4) is not good enough and thus leaks are occurring.

    This is the guy who did work on 2001 anthrax attack, where a bioweapon grade agent from American military lab was deliberately used and all he talks about is insufficient lab safety. He is holding back. He should be interviewed again.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  269. Another human coronavirus, the one that causes common cold, also spreads most readily in winter, including the time around Chinese New Year.

  270. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    seeing Boyle’s name floating around during the original 2002 Anthrax attacks. Perhaps it’s unfair, but he always struck me as a leftist anti-biowarfare activist-crank.

    Despite apparent plausibility, he said one thing that suggested remarkable ignorance whereof he spoke:

    this was a DNA genetically engineered biological agent leaking out of Wuhan that has gain-of-function properties …

    but as anyone with the slightest familiarity with this and other corona viruses such as SARS knows, it is an RNA virus.

    Perhaps he misspoke. But then why was he wearing a cap during the interview? Sure made him look a bit of crackpot.

    he seems to be saying that the Chinese had a biowarfare lab in Wehan, which accidentally released the virus, perhaps after having stolen it from the US. Offhand, that seems pretty implausible to me.

    First, Wehan is a huge city of 11M, not exactly the most sensible location for a biowarfare lab.

    The US does not have a Level 4 Biosafety Lab in New York, but it has one in Boston.

    The Wuhan lab is China’s first, and currently only Level 4 Biosafety Lab. Completed in 2015, it is located at the Institute of Virology in Wuhan and said, in an January 2020 Nature article, to be “on the cusp of being cleared to work with the world’s most dangerous pathogens.”

    If work at the Canadian Level 4 lab in Winnipeg is anything to go by, that means working with biowarfare agents, the justification, naturally, being to develop antidotes.

  271. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    Francis Boyle seems to believe that the safety of level 4 labs (BSL-4) is not good enough and thus leaks are occurring.

    At the Canadian Level 4 lab in Winnipeg, there have been several incidents of illicit removal of biological material, including material taken to the Wuhan lab. In another incident, a worker transferring to a job in the US was stopped at the US border, while carrying microbiological samples. So leaks from such labs do happen. And if someone accidentally infects themselves while working in the lab, maybe without even realizing it, then they could set off an epidemic.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @SBaker
  272. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    illicit removal of biological material” – Why are you making it up?

    “Canadian officials say the shipment was part of its efforts to support public-health research worldwide. ” – Nothing illicit about it.

    What however might be more interesting is the case of Dr. Frank Plummer:

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/canadian-scientist-undergoes-novel-brain-stimulation-treatment-for-alcoholism-1.4729940
    Plummer had an illustrious career as a physician, researcher and the scientific director of Canada’s National Microbiology Lab in Winnipeg.

    He was an alcoholic. Undergoes liver transplant in 2014. Then in In December of 2018 is implanted two electrodes into brain to treat his alcoholism. The article about this seemingly successful treatment is written on Dec. 15, 2019. Then he dies suddenly on February 4, 2020.

    Frank Plummer, former head of the National Microbiology Lab, dead at 67
    https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/frank-plummer-former-head-of-the-national-microbiology-lab-dead-at-67-1.4797116?cache=%3FclipId%3D89926

  273. @utu

    Utu,

    Frank Plummer

    An alcoholic running a lab handling deadly viruses? Did he drive vehicles too? Joker’s world.

  274. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:

    The novel coronavirus is very similar to another coronavirus found in bats (RaTG13). The two are >96% identical overall, and 93.1% identical in the receptor binding protein spike gene. Analysis suggest that both are naturally occurring viruses that likely diverged roughly 70 years ago, and that nCoV is highly unlikely to be the result of a recent recombination event.

    Peng Zhou, Xing-Lou Yang, and Xian-Guang Wang (Wuhan Institute of Virology):

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2012-7

    Dr Michael Skinner, Reader in Virology, Imperial College London:

    https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-two-nature-papers-looking-at-the-genome-sequence-and-characteristics-of-the-novel-coronavirus/

    Bill Gallaher

    http://virological.org/t/tackling-rumors-of-a-suspicious-origin-of-ncov2019/384

    Paraskevis D, et al. 

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/32004758/

    Coronavirus was not genetically engineered in a Wuhan lab, says expert:

    https://www.ft.com/content/a6392ee6-4ec6-11ea-95a0-43d18ec715f5

    It had been previously noted that coronaviruses in bats in China already had the potential to infect humans using ACE2 receptors.

    2015: A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283639823_A_SARS-like_cluster_of_circulating_bat_coronaviruses_shows_potential_for_human_emergence

    2018: Genomic characterization and infectivity of a novel SARS-like coronavirus in Chinese bats

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6135831/

  275. Adûnâi says:
    @KA

    “Are you referring to the extent of the anti Chinese(leadership) sentiment of the mainland Chinese highlighted and exaggerated by the western media ?”

    No, I mean the general anti-racist rhetoric of the Western media. My question is this. How can you say the Western media are anti-Chinese if they will never condone building Auschwitz?

    Or this. How are the Western media anti-Chinese if they tell Westerners to let chinks cough in their white faces to prove said Westerners not to be “racist” against said chinks?

    But you are most likely a myopic anti-White “socialist” – a generic Christian who thinks America wants to kill all non-Whites (I wish).

  276. Adûnâi says:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    “This isn’t over. Zionist elements in U.S. government have decided that to maintain dominance it is simple to assassinate (Soleimani) and use bio-warfare (Wuhan). Neither of these types of actions are the work of rational adults in an open room. They are the actions of ruthless psychopaths who have infiltrated the corridors of power throughout our world.”

    If Americans had wanted to control the world, they would have conquered and exterminated Mexico by the 1890s. They would have conquered and exterminated the Philippines. They would have conquered and exterminated Japan in the 1920s.

    They would have dropped nuclear bombs on Rio de Janeiro, Cairo, Delhi and Singapore in the 1940s.

    Instead, Americans have cured the diseases of non-Whites, gifted non-Whites their own weapons and their own technology.

    And yet still the Negroes are screaming about how barbarous White man is! Truly, to shut that whining voice, either the Negro or the European shall perish.

    P.S. Why does your comment have a golden border?

  277. Prince Philip ” If I were reincarnated , I would wish to be returned to earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels . We have no option ,we’re in for a major disaster.. If it isn’t controlled voluntarily , it will be controlled involuntarily by an INCREASE IN DISEASE …”nwo.fandom.com
    conspiracytruths.co.uk “The Georgia Guidestones , Agenda 21 [now Agenda 2030”:
    “Maintain humanity under 500,000…The Guidestones describe the new world order plans and the United Nations Agenda 21 [now Agenda 2030] and operations such as codex alimentarius which mirror this
    ideology of sustainable development through DEPOPULATION “

  278. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    Why are you making it up?

    Um, well not exactly — according to “anonymous sources”.

    Although health officials insist all protocols were met, anonymous sources report that the shipment lacked an agreement spelling out intellectual property rights, known as a “material transfer agreement,” according to the Winnipeg Free Press. The document would protect Canada’s claim over the viruses, assuming they had been patented through the Budapest Treaty deposit, an internationally recognized system for patenting intentions involving microorganisms.

    That:

    Dr. Xiangguo Qiu, her husband Keding Cheng and an unknown number of her students from China were removed from Canada’s only level-4 lab on July 5, CBC News has learned

    Suggests, at least, that the transfer of biological material from the Canadian lab to the Wuhan lab was not “licit”.

  279. Ber says:
    @utu

    I have read some kind of news by the South China Morning Post re farmers protesting or making a scene (forgot details) about the drones etc.

  280. SBaker says:
    @ivan

    “The Chinese are definitely more susceptible to this virus than others. The question is why? Apart from genetic factors, the possibility that prior vaccination played a role in inadvertently increasing their vulnerability cannot be ruled out. This may account for the cytokinesis expression – basically an overreaction to the virus that ends up destroying the infected person himself. Chicoms are too clever by half. They should learn some humility.”

    What proof do you have that the Chinese are more susceptible? They are the epicenter, but that doesn’t mean they are more susceptible. Prior vax making them more susceptible to cytokine storms? Really, how so? I do have a great deal of distrust of the chicoms.

  281. SBaker says:
    @CanSpeccy

    “And if someone accidentally infects themselves not even realizing it, then they could set off an epidemic.”

    And lab accidents just like this have happened many times. You make a very good point and anyone that has worked in a bio lab knows this. The infected person is the biological dissemination device and a mobile delivery system too.

  282. SBaker says:
    @Ron Unz

    A couple of comments here Ron, the anthrax attack was actually in 2001 with the initial releases in the later half of September. The anthrax disseminated through the US mail was both crude and weapons grade quality, and that means the perp had expertise in weaponizing technology.

    I would be willing to bet a large sum that the Chicoms have an offensive bioweapons program and it might be sited in Wuhan which is where they have an institute of virology. The US has a defensive program but the offensive program was shut down in 1972 or so and the offensive bioweapons treaty signed by 126 countries including the USSR, that subsequently moved their operation underground. Ken Alibekov defected to the West in 1992 and told the story of the massive offensive program program the USSR had at that time–USSR dissolved and shut down their program sometime in the mid-1990s but where did those 100,000 scientists go and where did the tons of weaponized agents end up–were they destroyed? Are those scientists for sale?

    If I comment on the timing of this event it would be pure speculation, but I will anyway, since you made some good points about the timing. It does seem the near ideal time for a release, but why would they do the release in the city with the Chinese Institute of Virology? This would draw attention to the lab, which makes me think the release more likely accidental, and lab accidents do happen.

    The RNA inserts from the HIV virus demonstrate this novel CoronaV was not naturally occurring but something I would expect to see coming out of an Institute of Virology and your suspicions of a bioweapon have merit. This is not something ever seen in nature and 75% of human pathogens came from animals and 60% of emerging (new) diseases come from animals. The SARS and MERS coronaVs both have animal origins. An interesting story and somewhere lies the truth.

  283. anon[274] • Disclaimer says:
    @d dan

    Face it, PRC is a successful country.

    Yeah, PRC is so successful, it’s on lockdown because you slopeheads refuse to stop eating tiger dicks, chicken lips and putting live bats up your asses.
    I hope you ching chongs keep eating bats and wolves, and dogs and cats and get more diseases.
    The less of you barbaric insects on the planet the better:)

    • Troll: Alfred, Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @last straw
    , @Ber
  284. @anon

    Natural disasters happen. Plague, flu, Lyme disease, Ebola, Hurricane Katrina, Fukushima etc etc. China has been very successful in the past 40 years despite experiencing such disasters, such as SARS, and the earthquake in 2008 that killed more than 70,000. This one will also blow over, and China will be back to its trajectory of inexorable ascension.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
  285. bandolero says:
    @Pat Kittle

    that jew york times concept is really so clever that i’m surprised more clever commentators don’t use it more often. it’s hard to tell if everyone who lives there is a jew or if the entire staff of the newspaper is jewish. either way, it sure is clever to hear morons repeat the term jew york times over and over again decade upon decade.

    • Replies: @Pat Kittle
  286. Ber says:
    @anon

    Do not mock at others’ eating habits. A google of what elite Americans eat in NY will make you sick. ..like the Explorers Club. They call it “exotic” meals.

  287. @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    HiFor obvious reasons (though many commenters don’t seem to notice them) I try to find material for raising questions within interesting probably contentious comments. Here I am struck by your reference to the Chinese having physical evidence (the mold they were all made from) of a single source for the drones. That cries out for elaboration. How many drones ended up in government hands? What proportion of the total would that have been? Above all, what was the inferred source? In what country? From what registered design or whatever? Oops, I see I have been anticipated.

  288. @bandolero

    Maybe in Hebrew (((you))) don’t have the concept of capitalization, but in English we do.

    Learn to use it.

  289. @Ron Unz

    Another numbers problem I see in your reasoning here:

    “Second, the virus was released just before Lunar New Year, the absolutely most disastrous time for a release in China because of the hundreds of millions of people traveling, potentially spreading the virus to the entire country. If the virus was somehow *accidentally* released, what is the likelihood it would happen at the absolutely worst time?

    The timing of the virus doesn’t fully rule out a natural event, but I do think it rules out an accidental release.”

    “Just the worst time” – but is that 1 day out of 365 or maybe 50 days out of 365 and then narrowed down by seasonal considerations to 50 out of 90 or so? So the equivalent accident could have happened several times but it would only be when it happened around early December that it took off. A bit like the arguments for and against Creation or mere chance (with or without multiverses) for the existence of life.

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