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America’s political and military mission in the post-cold-war era is to ensure that no rival superpower is allowed to emerge in Western Europe, Asia or the territories of the former Soviet Union..The classified document makes the case for a world dominated by one superpower whose position can be perpetuated by constructive behavior and sufficient military might to deter any nation or group of nations from challenging American primacy. US Department of Defense, The New York Times, March, 1992.

In 2015 RAND reported, “China can now hold the US Navy’s surface fleet at risk at significant ranges from the mainland”. Two years later the Pentagon calculated, “The PLAN is the largest navy in Asia, with more than 300 surface ships, submarines, amphibious and patrol craft.”

In 2018, the US Navy’s Indo-Pacific Commander, Adm. Philip Davidson ⁠1, told the Senate, “There is no guarantee that the United States would win a future conflict with China”.

By next summer, says the Navy,⁠ the PLAN will have 342 deployable warships, far more than the USN can support in the area.

Our media, on the rare occasions when they reveal some truth about China, delay doing so for five to ten years. Ten years ago, for example, Huawei was gigantic, innovative and leading the race to 5G but we didn’t get the memo until twelve months ago. Today the media insist that China’s economy is ‘the second-largest on earth’ when even the CIA admits that it’s thirty percent bigger[1]Adjusted for purchasing power parity, PPP. than ours. This means, inter alia, that China’s defense budget is thirty percent bigger than we imagine and, since her economy grows three times faster than ours, its defense spending will equal ours eight years hence, in 2028, when she will have twice as many warships, aircraft and missiles as the US, all newer and of equal or better quality.

But PPP figures are only an average of all prices and fail to reflect the fact that Chinese defense dollars buy almost fifty-percent more than American defense dollars. In other words, China’s defense spending has already surpassed ours by a considerable margin. Here’s the reasoning:

  1. Beijing runs the most cost-effective government on earth. They know how to get value for money and, in every budget category, is a model of thrift:
  1. China outspends us by 300% on R&D. As with the US, much leading-edge research is military in nature but Beijing ensures that all of its discoveries are quickly exploited by the PLA.
  1. Beijing owns the defense contractors so saves on lobbying, bribes, profit-taking, rent-seeking, waste, redundancy, overpaid boards and executives, politically-driven decisions, and more.
  2. China is free to make consistently rational decisions about defense acquisitions. Demobilize a million troops? Done. Shift resources to the Rocket Force? Done. Recruit the entire Merchant Marine? Done.
  3. Beijing’s Military-Civil Fusion is a force multiplier that saves a bundle. China has three sea forces, each a subcomponent of its Armed Forces: the PLA Navy (PLAN), China Coast Guard (CCG), and the People’s Armed Forces Maritime Militia (PAFMM). Each has the world’s most ships in its category and all operate in concert under unified command and control. The first line of defense, the Maritime Militia,[3a] has 180,000 ocean-going fishing boats and four thousand merchant marine freighters–some towing passive sonar detectors. Crewed by a million experienced sailors, they transmit detailed information about every warship on the world’s oceans twenty-four hours a day. Shore bases fuse their reports with automated transmissions from Beidou positioning, navigation and timing satellites and provide real time data to reporting specialists, xinxiyuan, trained in target information collection and identification, who operate ‘vessel management platforms’ that collate, format and forward actionable information up the PLAN command chain. Shoreside, eight million coastal reservists train constantly in seamanship, emergency ship repairs, anti-air missile defense, light weapons and naval sabotage.
  1. Technology contributes to cost-effectiveness and capability enhancement: China, the world leader in chemistry, math, computer science, and engineering, has applied its chemistry expertise to propellants and explosives. All its missiles, from air-to-air to ICBMs, outrange ours by fifty- to one-hundred percent and their warheads doubtless pack a superior punch.
  2. Commonality Saves Billions. The fabled DF-21D ‘Carrier Killer’ is a repurposed IRBM the PLAN uses to loft many of the missiles footnoted below and, by mass producing them, reduces their cost to a fraction of ours while affording a mind-numbing[2]Surface-to- Surface: Ballistic Missiles Intercontinental DF-41 DF-31AG DF-31A DF-31 DF-5B DF-5 DF-4 Intermediate Range DF-26 DF-3A DF-3 Medium Range DF-17 DF-21 DF-2A DF-2 Short Range B-611 P-12 BRE8 DF-16 DF-15 (M-9) DF-11 (M-11) DF-1 M-7 AR-3 AR-8 WM-120 WS-2 series WS-3 series WS-15 WS-22 WS-32 WS-33 WS-35 WS-43 WS-63 WS-64 WS-600L A100 A200 A300 SR-5 SY300 SY400 Submarine Launched JL-3 JL-2 JL-1 Anti-Ship DF-26 DF-21D CM-401 Hypersonic Glide Missile DF-ZF Cruise Missiles Long Range Land Attack DH-2000 HN-2000 CJ-20 CJ-10 CF-2 CF-1 HN-3 HN-2 HN-1 Short Range Land Attack YJ-18 CX-1 CM-602G YJ-62 (C-602) YJ-85 (C-805)[1] YJ-12 YJ-22 KD-88 YJ-2 KD-63 YJ-63 (C-603) YJ-7 (C-701) C-703 C-704KD C-705KD YJ-4 YJ-1 C-611 XW-41 HD-1 Anti-Ship Supersonic YJ-12 YJ-18 CX-1 YJ-22 YJ-2 CJ-1 DH-2000 HN-2000 YJ-91 FL-7 HY-3 (C-301) FL-2 (C-101) 3M-80MBE/E Moskit (SS-N-22) 3M-54E/E1 Klub (SS-N-27) C-302 C-303 YJ-1 HD-1 Anti-Ship Subsonic YJ-100 YJ-62 (C-602) YJ-8 (C-801) YJ-82 YJ-83 (C-802) C-705 C-704 C-703 YJ-7 (C-701) FL-10 TL-10A TL-1A FL-8 TL-6 TL-2 FL-9 SY-1 HY-1 SY-2 HY-2 (C-201) HY-4 (C-401) XW-41 Anti-Tank Missiles CM-501G AFT-10 HJ-12 HJ-11 (AFT-11) CM-502KG HJ-10 BA-9 LJ-7 HJ-9 HJ-8 HJ-73 9K116 Bastion J-202 J-201 265-I Anti-Submarine CY-1 CY-2 CY-3 CY-4 CY-5 CJ-1 WS-3 ASW missile \

    Air-to- Surface: Cruise Missiles Long Range Land Attack CJ-20 CJ-10 HN-1 HN-2 HN-3 CF-2 CF-1 Short Range Land Attack YJ-12 YJ-22 YJ-62 (C-602) CM-802AKG YJ-2 KD-88 YJ-63 (C-603) KD-63 CM-400AKG CM-502KG YJ-1 BA-7 AKD-10 AR-1 YJ-85 (C-805)[1] C-704KD C-705KD YJ-7 (C-701) C-703 Kh-59 Kh-29 YJ-4 CS/BBC5 K/YBS500 TL500 QW-1 TB-1 KD1 KD2 LMD-002 LMD-003 Sky Arrow Sky Arrow 90 TBI Anti-Ship Supersonic YJ-12 YJ-22 DH-2000 HN-2000 YJ-2 CM-400AKG CJ-1 YJ-91 FL-7 HY-3 (C-301) FL-2 (C-101) C-302 C-303 3M-80MBE/E Moskit (SS-N-22) 3M-54E/E1 Klub (SS-N-27) YJ-1 Anti-Ship Subsonic YJ-7 (C-701) YJ-100 C-703 C-704 C-705 TL-10 TL-1 TL-6 TL-2 YJ-6 (C-601) YJ-61 (C-611) YJ-8K (C-801K) YJ-82 YJ-83 (C-802) Anti-Radiation CM400AKG LD10 YJ-12 YJ-91 FL-7 YJ-5 (HQ-61) Kh-31P Anti-Tank Missiles CM-501G AR-1 CM-502KG HJ-11 (AFT-11) LJ-7 HJ-10 BA-9 HJ-9 HJ-8 TB-1 HJ-73 Guided Bombs CM-506KG FT series TD series (TD500-ER) LS series CS/BBC5 K/YBS500 TL500 YZ-100 series YZ-102 series YZ-200 series LT series GB-1 TG-100/250/500/1000-ER ZD1 KAB-1500Kr KAB-500Kr Surface-to- Air: Anti-Satellite Missile DN-3 DN-2 SC-19 Anti-Ballistic Missile SAMs DN-3 DN-2 SC-19 HQ-26 HQ-19 HQ-29 HQ-18 S-300PMU-2 HQ-15 S-300PMU-1 (HQ-10) HQ-9 KS-2 KS-1 HQ-12 HQ-22 FJ S-400 Anti-(high)Radiation (emitter)platform SAMs FT-2000 Long Range Area Defence SAMs HQ-26 HQ-29 HQ-9 FD-2000 FK-3/HQ-22 Sky Dragon 50 HQ-18 HQ-15 S-300PMU-1 (HQ-10) S-300PMU-2 S-300PMU S-300FM S-400 Medium Range Area Defence SAMs DK-10A DK-10 (PL-12) LS-II ADS Sky Dragon 50 DK-10 (LY-60) PL-12 SAM HQ-16 (Buk/SA-17) / HQ-16A / HQ-16B / LY-80 HQ-12 KS-2 KS-1 S-75 (SA-2) & HQ-1/2/3/4 Short Range Point Defence SAMs HQ-7 (FM-80) HQ-64 HQ-6 HQ-61 HQ-6D LY-60 HQ-17 (Tor) TY-90 DK-9 CQW-2 FLS-1 FLG-1 FLV-1 FL-2000(V) FL-2000(V2)/FLV-2 FL-9 SG-2 ADS LS ADS YT ADS FN-6A FB-6A ZBL-09 ADS FL-3000N HN-5C TD-2000 TD-2000B TB-1 FB-6 FB-10 Man Portable SAMs QW-18 QW-11 QW-4 QW-3 QW-2 QW-1 TB-1 FN/FY-6 FN-16/FY-16 HN-5 HQ-5 HN-6

    Air-to-Air: Beyond Visual Range AAMs PL-21 PL-12 SD-10 SD-10A PL-11 PL-15 PL-4 Within Visual Range AAMs PL-10 PL-9 PL-8 (Python 3) PL-7 PL-6 PL-5 PL-3 PL-2 K-5 (PL-1) HJ-10 TY-90 QW-18 QW-11 QW-4 QW-3 TB-1 QW-2 FN-6 FN-16 HN-6
    variety.
  3. Mass Produced Warships. The PLAN launched seventeen warships in 2017 and nineteen last year, using a common approach to manufacturing while progressively cutting costs and improving each unit–sometimes based on radioed feedback from trialling ships. Their new submarine factory, the largest such facility on earth, produces six subs simultaneously, reducing construction costs to a fraction of ours. If the Chinese can build nuclear power plants for 35% of our cost, which they do, they can certainly produce cruisers like the Type 55, the most powerful surface combatant afloat, for half the cost of our Ticonderoga class.
  4. The PLAN spends solely for defense. Defense. In 2001, anti-American terrorists with global reach were found in only one or two countries. Today we are fighting terrorists in eighty nations at a cost of two-thirds of the discretionary budget and leaving little for productive investment–or even innovative weapon systems. The GWOT has cost $6.4 trillion, including veterans’ care and we are still garrisoning Germany and Japan, Korea, Afghanistan, and Iraq. At our insistence, China built exactly one supply base, at Djibouti, which also anchors its massive (compared to our non-existent) development program for that country while we man and supply foreign bases in eight hundred locations.
  5. The PLARF can destroy every American city in 48 minutes. Even if China were to knock out all our foreign bases, were we to strike their territory China could (and, on past form, would) strike American mainland targets with equal ease. Talk about asymmetrical warfare!

It would be surprising if China did not pursue outright military dominance, given our recent behavior:

  • In 1951, US Navy warplanes flew low passes over the port city of Shantou.
  • In 1993, the Navy held the cargo ship Yinhe at gunpoint in international waters for three weeks, claiming she was carrying contraband (she wasn’t).
  • President Clinton sent two carrier battle groups into Chinese territorial waters, the Taiwan Strait, in 1996. In reality, says defense analyst Michael Thim, “The PLAN had sufficient capabilities in place in 1996 such that sending Carrier Strike Groups into the Taiwan Strait would be suicidal. The situation has only become more challenging for the US Navy in recent years–not because the PLAN has acquired an aircraft carrier of its own–but because China has greatly enhanced and modernized its existing anti-access/area-denial capabilities”.
  • In 1998, the US Air Force dropped five precision bombs on China’s embassy in Belgrade, killing three diplomats and seriously injuring twenty and CIA director George Tenet told the House Intelligence Sub-Committee, “It was the only target we nominated” and, when demonstrations erupted across China,
  • A 2014 article, Deterring the Dragon, in US Naval Institute Proceedings proposed laying offensive underwater mines along China’s coast to close main ports and destroy its maritime lines of communication while sending special forces to arm minorities in Xinjiang and Tibet.
  • In 2017 the Air Force reaffirmed its willingness to launch a nuclear attack on China
  • In 2018, Operation Talisman Sabre practiced blocking China’s access to oil through the Malacca Strait.

The Chinese people are well aware of our efforts to humiliate their country, as this chart demonstrates:

Is it game over?

Notes

[1] Adjusted for purchasing power parity, PPP.

[2] Surface-to- Surface: Ballistic Missiles Intercontinental DF-41 DF-31AG DF-31A DF-31 DF-5B DF-5 DF-4 Intermediate Range DF-26 DF-3A DF-3 Medium Range DF-17 DF-21 DF-2A DF-2 Short Range B-611 P-12 BRE8 DF-16 DF-15 (M-9) DF-11 (M-11) DF-1 M-7 AR-3 AR-8 WM-120 WS-2 series WS-3 series WS-15 WS-22 WS-32 WS-33 WS-35 WS-43 WS-63 WS-64 WS-600L A100 A200 A300 SR-5 SY300 SY400 Submarine Launched JL-3 JL-2 JL-1 Anti-Ship DF-26 DF-21D CM-401 Hypersonic Glide Missile DF-ZF Cruise Missiles Long Range Land Attack DH-2000 HN-2000 CJ-20 CJ-10 CF-2 CF-1 HN-3 HN-2 HN-1 Short Range Land Attack YJ-18 CX-1 CM-602G YJ-62 (C-602) YJ-85 (C-805)[1] YJ-12 YJ-22 KD-88 YJ-2 KD-63 YJ-63 (C-603) YJ-7 (C-701) C-703 C-704KD C-705KD YJ-4 YJ-1 C-611 XW-41 HD-1 Anti-Ship Supersonic YJ-12 YJ-18 CX-1 YJ-22 YJ-2 CJ-1 DH-2000 HN-2000 YJ-91 FL-7 HY-3 (C-301) FL-2 (C-101) 3M-80MBE/E Moskit (SS-N-22) 3M-54E/E1 Klub (SS-N-27) C-302 C-303 YJ-1 HD-1 Anti-Ship Subsonic YJ-100 YJ-62 (C-602) YJ-8 (C-801) YJ-82 YJ-83 (C-802) C-705 C-704 C-703 YJ-7 (C-701) FL-10 TL-10A TL-1A FL-8 TL-6 TL-2 FL-9 SY-1 HY-1 SY-2 HY-2 (C-201) HY-4 (C-401) XW-41 Anti-Tank Missiles CM-501G AFT-10 HJ-12 HJ-11 (AFT-11) CM-502KG HJ-10 BA-9 LJ-7 HJ-9 HJ-8 HJ-73 9K116 Bastion J-202 J-201 265-I Anti-Submarine CY-1 CY-2 CY-3 CY-4 CY-5 CJ-1 WS-3 ASW missile \

Air-to- Surface: Cruise Missiles Long Range Land Attack CJ-20 CJ-10 HN-1 HN-2 HN-3 CF-2 CF-1 Short Range Land Attack YJ-12 YJ-22 YJ-62 (C-602) CM-802AKG YJ-2 KD-88 YJ-63 (C-603) KD-63 CM-400AKG CM-502KG YJ-1 BA-7 AKD-10 AR-1 YJ-85 (C-805)[1] C-704KD C-705KD YJ-7 (C-701) C-703 Kh-59 Kh-29 YJ-4 CS/BBC5 K/YBS500 TL500 QW-1 TB-1 KD1 KD2 LMD-002 LMD-003 Sky Arrow Sky Arrow 90 TBI Anti-Ship Supersonic YJ-12 YJ-22 DH-2000 HN-2000 YJ-2 CM-400AKG CJ-1 YJ-91 FL-7 HY-3 (C-301) FL-2 (C-101) C-302 C-303 3M-80MBE/E Moskit (SS-N-22) 3M-54E/E1 Klub (SS-N-27) YJ-1 Anti-Ship Subsonic YJ-7 (C-701) YJ-100 C-703 C-704 C-705 TL-10 TL-1 TL-6 TL-2 YJ-6 (C-601) YJ-61 (C-611) YJ-8K (C-801K) YJ-82 YJ-83 (C-802) Anti-Radiation CM400AKG LD10 YJ-12 YJ-91 FL-7 YJ-5 (HQ-61) Kh-31P Anti-Tank Missiles CM-501G AR-1 CM-502KG HJ-11 (AFT-11) LJ-7 HJ-10 BA-9 HJ-9 HJ-8 TB-1 HJ-73 Guided Bombs CM-506KG FT series TD series (TD500-ER) LS series CS/BBC5 K/YBS500 TL500 YZ-100 series YZ-102 series YZ-200 series LT series GB-1 TG-100/250/500/1000-ER ZD1 KAB-1500Kr KAB-500Kr Surface-to- Air: Anti-Satellite Missile DN-3 DN-2 SC-19 Anti-Ballistic Missile SAMs DN-3 DN-2 SC-19 HQ-26 HQ-19 HQ-29 HQ-18 S-300PMU-2 HQ-15 S-300PMU-1 (HQ-10) HQ-9 KS-2 KS-1 HQ-12 HQ-22 FJ S-400 Anti-(high)Radiation (emitter)platform SAMs FT-2000 Long Range Area Defence SAMs HQ-26 HQ-29 HQ-9 FD-2000 FK-3/HQ-22 Sky Dragon 50 HQ-18 HQ-15 S-300PMU-1 (HQ-10) S-300PMU-2 S-300PMU S-300FM S-400 Medium Range Area Defence SAMs DK-10A DK-10 (PL-12) LS-II ADS Sky Dragon 50 DK-10 (LY-60) PL-12 SAM HQ-16 (Buk/SA-17) / HQ-16A / HQ-16B / LY-80 HQ-12 KS-2 KS-1 S-75 (SA-2) & HQ-1/2/3/4 Short Range Point Defence SAMs HQ-7 (FM-80) HQ-64 HQ-6 HQ-61 HQ-6D LY-60 HQ-17 (Tor) TY-90 DK-9 CQW-2 FLS-1 FLG-1 FLV-1 FL-2000(V) FL-2000(V2)/FLV-2 FL-9 SG-2 ADS LS ADS YT ADS FN-6A FB-6A ZBL-09 ADS FL-3000N HN-5C TD-2000 TD-2000B TB-1 FB-6 FB-10 Man Portable SAMs QW-18 QW-11 QW-4 QW-3 QW-2 QW-1 TB-1 FN/FY-6 FN-16/FY-16 HN-5 HQ-5 HN-6

Air-to-Air: Beyond Visual Range AAMs PL-21 PL-12 SD-10 SD-10A PL-11 PL-15 PL-4 Within Visual Range AAMs PL-10 PL-9 PL-8 (Python 3) PL-7 PL-6 PL-5 PL-3 PL-2 K-5 (PL-1) HJ-10 TY-90 QW-18 QW-11 QW-4 QW-3 TB-1 QW-2 FN-6 FN-16 HN-6

 
The China/America Series
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  1. songbird says:

    The PLARF can destroy every American city in 48 minutes.

    Sounds like Godfree is not buying the total warhead count estimates.

    Honestly, I don’t see how it would be easy to estimate the number, except perhaps for ballistic subs.

    It is interesting to think, though: what would be the American political bias in 2020, for estimating the number of nukes China has? Could it be intentionally low-balled? The opposite of the old “missile-gap” with Russia?

    • Replies: @Alternate History
  2. Gibbon says:

    Yes China is so great at math that they’ve hardly ever made a novel discovery in the field and literally have to try and take credit for accomplishments made by Russian Jews and whites by pretending to have been involved in the research LMAO.

    There really is no point in talking about East Asia in this way honestly. The whole culture is built on maintaining appearances at all costs; you never really know if anything is even real or not. That’s why all these grand Chinese cities are falling apart at the seams and why Japan’s supposedly dominant electronics industry atrophied after the Plaza Accords and the US finally stopped allowing domestic semiconductor technology to transfer to Japanese firms.

  3. I like his point about how China owns the defense contractors. Now if that ain’t a recipe for an excellent, equitable society that has enough money left over to spread around amongst hoi polloi, then nothing is.

    • Agree: Alternate History
    • Replies: @Alternate History
  4. First – reading that NY Times excerpt is very telling for right wing Evangelicals. Dont they read the book of revelation in their bible??? The nation that seeks to dominate the world and the one who controls who can buy and sell is the sign of the “the beast”. Dont evenagelicals see that…??? I guess they are under strong delusion.

    Not so sure about your assertion of having twice as much equipment by 2028. China doesnt need that much for its strategy as stands… Even though they can build and maintain less expensively than the US – that would still be too much to maintain and keep the percentage of GDP the same. I could be wrong – but unless they expect to face a 7 nation alliance (no Russia this time – but India could be dragged in the the Anglos) would it be necessary??? As they become more fully developed things will become more expensive… But then again as long as they remain efficient and their economy keeps growing – they might be able to stay at that rate. Really I think Japan and India hold the key. The 5 Eyes nations at the end of the day will always try to band together…. The question for China is what happens with those two. If they realize China’s strength is “too much” to jump in with the 5 Eyes… Then that changes the calculus greatly for China.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @Chinaman
    , @Anon
  5. Lot says:

    China is so awesome that some day they might have a GDP per capita as high as rural blacks in Mississippi!

  6. @Gibbon

    Are you claiming their achievements in Math competitions are fake? Did they steal the answers before hand? Same with PISA too??
    And “Chinese cities falling apart at the seams”… huh? what?

    But I think your comment is not a real one. There is nothing “supposed” about Japan’s dominance in the 80’s in electronics and semiconductors. It wasn’t the Plaza Accords that stifled it (though it did stifle the Japanese economy overall). Toshiba got worse treatment than Huawei. Toshiba sold some tech to the Russians and were raked over the coals. Japan is still occupied by the US military. So that was a big “no no” (Toshiba couldn’t fight like Huawei can – for that reason). The repercussions of that destroyed Japan’s semiconductor manufacturing lead.

    Good job at satire though.

    • Replies: @Gibbon
    , @Realist
    , @FvS
  7. President Clinton sent two carrier battle groups into Chinese territorial waters, the Taiwan Strait, in 1996.

    Horribly inaccurate. The “strait” is 100 miles across, while international boundaries are just 12 miles out.

    Also, the USA spends over a trillion a year on national defense, or about 8% of GDP. The figure cited is only the DoD budget.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    , @Anon
  8. @Lot

    Yes, you are right. But let’s revisit the question when rural blacks in Mississippi, or indeed the US itself can get its shit together to build xyz thousand km of high speed trains or any other major NATION building endeavour.

  9. @Carlton Meyer

    According to the constitutions of both, Taiwan and China are one country therefore, under international law and UNCLOS, the Straits are Chinese waters IF there is an equally safe, alternative passage–which there is.

    • Replies: @Carlton Meyer
    , @Corrupt
  10. Gibbon says:
    @showmethereal

    Well, for one, yes China’s PISA scores are fake, as is everything else about it. Secondly, I don’t really care about how well they perform in competitions. I care about actual novel discoveries and achievements, things which China has very few of given its size and ostensible super high IQ. If all you really care about is all these stupid sewn up competitions then you really have internalized the just world meritocracy garbage spewed by so many in these parts a bit too much.

    Japan’s electronics industry was not dominant in any way. It only appeared dominant because it was allowed to basically steal most of its technology from the west and then dump its semiconductors on the western markets, a classic mercantilist East Asian maneuver that has been practiced since Japan began industrializing. It’s not a coincidence that once the west (in a rare display of foresight) put a stop to it knowing where the American semiconductor industry was heading if it continued, Japan was unable to continue capturing further sectors of the electronics industry. That is why they are still stuck just making capacitors/resistors and memory today as opposed to microprocessors, baseband chips etc

    • Agree: SteveK9
    • Disagree: John Regan
    • Replies: @showmethereal
    , @Anonymous
  11. Jason Liu says:

    We probably should spend more at some point. Keep in mind that this is not just a contest against the US, but against the combined force of the US + Regional allies, maybe NATO.

  12. @Godfree Roberts

    So all the ocean between the USA and Hawaii is American territorial waters? UNCLOS rules say no such thing. The 12-mile limit can only be extended to include offshore islands or bays. Since no one else agrees that Taiwan is part of mainland China’s government, the claim is false. And even if true, ships have a “right of passage” through a strait, just like Hormuz.

    Sending aircraft carriers in between those two nation is not provocative, it’s tactically foolish. Because of mass propaganda, Americans are surprised to learn that the Han Chinese on Taiwan identify closely with the Han Chinese on the mainland, and not the warmongering Americans far away. They are major trading partners too and neither see a need for war. Stories about friction emerge from the Pentagon threat machine media.

  13. @Gibbon

    Oh boy… Another one of these who live in self denial. Yeah sure – in your world the Chinese lived in huts and didn’t have utensils until Europeans showed up on their shores.. Got ya. So in your world their Math Olympiads and all their cited research (at home and abroad) and their PISA scores are all fake… Sure – got ya. As to why they weren’t making new discoveries… Everyone show know by now the turmoil that existed in China for about 100 years. Now they are over it… You might want to re-check if you think there is no innovation going on in China. You are over a decade behind the times. That’s to say nothing of the ethnic Chinese who made huge contributions to discovery in western nations during the turmoil

    In case you didn’t know – the top semiconductor manufacturer is a Taiwan company TSMC… They are ethnically Chinese in case you didn’t know.. But yeah they aren’t good at math… Sure… They have the most advanced manufacturing process – along with South Korean Samsung… But nah – they don’t know math. Got ya.
    You might want to also look at how many patents Japanese and South Korean companies hold in the industry… I guess that was all copying too.

    Please name me one thing that the west makes which is more high quality than Japanese and South Korean (and increasingly Chinese) firms. Even cars. Only Germany beats Japan and South Korea in cars.

    Oh yes and I guess I was dreaming when everyone in the west started to replace their US electronics with Sony and Panasonic etc. etc. Then after Japan was neutered it was South Korean firms like LG and Samsung. Nowadays outside the US – Chinese firms are in the ascent like TCL and Midea and Hisense. I mean even appliances – GE Appliances isn’t even an American company anymore. It was saved by Chinese company Haier – who basically had to modernize it. Your white supremacist mindset obscures you to the truth. Sure yes – your race invented the chip industry and the computer industry… But every race and culture learned from others at points in history. Maybe you ought to look at what the basis was for the binary code even…

    The US industry did a “good” job in being first mover and locking down the x86 architecture and the ecosystem surrounding it. But outside of that – the rest of the chip industry saw most of it’s innovation in Japan – South Korea – Taiwan. None of those three had the market size to dislodge x86 though…. Which is why the US is so worried about AI and drones and 5G and Iot that China is starting to take the leads in. First mover often sets the rules – and China is bigger than the US and Europe combined. But I digress – this is a military article. Calculus – physics – chemistry all matter more in military terms than brawn. Let’s hope the people in the Pentagon aren’t as silly as you and we never have to know whether China or the US has longer range and more accurate missiles right now – let alone 10 years from now.

  14. @Carlton Meyer

    Good point! My off-the-cuff comment might have been an hallucination (I can find no support for it) but the issue is more nuanced than commonly thought, as these two articles suggest:

    Is the Taiwan Strait in International Waters? BY PETER KIEN-HONG YU. IPP Review. May. 17, 2019.

    Redefining the Legal I Status of the Taiwan Strait, by Keyuan Zou, The International Journal of Marine and Coastal Law 15(2):245-268. May 2000

    Even more interesting is the fact that the new Pingtan Island Bridge is the first leg of the bridge from the mainland to Hsinchu City, in Taiwan which, when completed, will make the issue moot!

    Agree about the tactical foolishness of FONOPs. Hubris from a bygone age, which is becoming harder to support with each passing year (which is the real point I was making in this article).

    • Agree: Vidi
  15. @Carlton Meyer

    Technically speaking nobody recognizes them as two nations… They either recognize the Republic of China (Taiwan – of which 17 do) or the People’s Republic (mainland China which all other besides the 17 as well as the UN). You can’t recognize both. Since the 2000’s the DPP party has sought to change that paradigm – but that would make the civil war re-ignite … It’s funny though – nobody reads the constitution of “Taiwan”. Western media doesn’t tell people they claim the SAME islands in the South and East China Seas as mainland China does. Quirk of history and diplomacy…?? (doubt it)
    In the meantime diplomatic games are played. A key example of that is that the US never signed on to the UNCLOS. The UNCLOS is a little more complicated than people think… Commercial ships are not treated the same as military ships – for obvious reasons.
    So the Taiwan Strait – according to the UN does not allow the US to send military ships through. Read below… Read that recalling in mind that at the UN – Taiwan is recognized as Chinese territory…

    https://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part3.htm

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts, Vidi
  16. Paul says:

    The United States has the world’s biggest economy. Plus, a number of its allies have big economies. And how much overkill does the U.S. and its allies need?

    One must understand that the money doled out to military contractors is socialism for the rich. And it juices the economy, sometimes known as military Keynesianism.

    • Replies: @Donald Duck
  17. Wally says:
    @Gibbon

    What “Russian Jews” & what did they supposedly do?

    Or are we taking about more plagiarists and frauds like “German” Jew Einstein?

    • Replies: @Grahamsno(G64)
  18. gotmituns says:

    We should start up the Yangtze river patrol again.

    • Replies: @Moi
    , @foolisholdman
  19. @Lot

    might have a GDP per capita as high as rural blacks in Mississippi!

    Tell that to the luxury fashion brands who are now looking down the barrel of a $40+ billion loss because Chinese shoppers are confined to quarters.

  20. Although a little sensationalist in spots, this is an excellent survey piece.

    China has many times stated that it is not looking towards military dominance, and I believe that still is true.

    Of course, good old America is committed to “full-spectrum dominance,” everywhere, a highly aggressive slogan.

    The seas around China are its “parlor” as it were, and of course those waters must be secure.

    The island fortresses are a new reality in that goal, much although part of the armaments and capacities of China’s coast had been spread around over considerable distances in the sea. The artificial islands resemble stationary aircraft carriers, but they are far more than even that with supplies, ships, services, and more. They represent an ingenious concept, and of course the United States hates them.

    It has been the United States’ approach – with stunts like Freedom of Navigation voyages – to tell the Chinese loudly and rudely that the waters are not secure. I’m pretty sure that is the only genuine purpose of Freedom of Navigation, and it is inherently hostile in character as is so much of what the United States does these days in many parts of the word.

    In the past, China has not been the same kind of strategic threat to the United States as Russia because the Pacific Ocean is so huge and there’s three thousand more miles of land after that in North America. And Chinese ICBMs couldn’t cover the distance.

    Chinese SLBMs were relatively few and not advanced.

    But that has changed and it continues changing with new ballistic missiles, new planes, new classes of ships and submarines and I think, necessarily, new numbers of warheads. China has had a small fraction of the number of the United States, but that must be changing.

    It is interesting the way Xi recently announced a coming make-over for the military. I don’t know just what he has in mind, but I’m sure it will be significant and I’m sure it will be achieved.

    https://chuckmanwordsincomments.wordpress.com/2020/01/26/john-chuckman-comment-chinas-claims-in-the-south-china-sea-and-its-fortified-islands/

  21. @showmethereal

    You are pushing East Asian achievements that have come about as a result of stealing or being given Western technology by spineless Westerners. It is impossible that East Asians would have managed to form their own industries if manufacturing had not been transferred to East Asia.

    Who invented the semiconductor? Who invented the microprocessor? Who allowed East Asians to attend Western universities so they could learn about these Western technologies?

    Why are there so many Chinese coming to the stupid White man’s university (IQ100) when the could be going to superior Asian (IQ105) universities?

    Why does China have the ‘Thousand Talents’ program in order to draw back ethnic Chinese scientists who have acquired their knowledge in Western universities and have been working in Western companies?

    China’s authoritarian system works, that is where they outfoxed us. That is why they were totally unscrupulous in stealing things while we kept sending our newest innovations to East Asia because they can make it cheap and so if means a higher stock price.

    By the way, TSMC was founded by Morris Chang, am ethnic Chinese who went to Harvard, MIT and Stanford, worked for Texas Instruments and then went back to Taiwan where he was recruited by a government research lab.

    Now Chang was obviously very good at picking new things up, but ask yourself if TSMC would exist of all non-Westerners were barred from attending Western universities? Would these East Asians have been able to make their own competitive companies? I think not.

  22. Silva says:

    OK, but who is this “we”? After all, you aren’t subtle about being a sinocephalus.

  23. Technology contributes to cost-effectiveness and capability enhancement: China, the world leader in chemistry, math, computer science, and engineering, has applied its chemistry expertise to propellants and explosives. All its missiles, from air-to-air to ICBMs, outrange ours by fifty- to one-hundred percent and their warheads doubtless pack a superior punch.

    Where does Mr. Roberts get the sources to back the claims of China being the world leader in scientific pursuits from? Mr. Riberts often brings up the factoid that China produce almostas many citable documents as America does (which in itself is not very impressive given that China have a population around 5 times that of the White population of America) but this fails to bring into account the quality of these documents.

    Lets look at scientific journals for different countries and their rankings in terms of impact factor;

    Biochemistry, Genetics and Molecular Biology

    https://www.scimagojr.com/journalrank.php?area=1300

    First Chinese journal appears at rank 297

    https://www.scimagojr.com/journalrank.php?area=1300&page=6&total_size=2124

    Chemistry

    https://www.scimagojr.com/journalrank.php?area=1600

    First Chinese journal appears at rank 167

    https://www.scimagojr.com/journalrank.php?area=1600&page=4&total_size=916

    Computer Science

    https://www.scimagojr.com/journalrank.php?area=1700

    First Chinese journal appears at rank 344

    https://www.scimagojr.com/journalrank.php?area=1700&page=7&total_size=5561

    You get the picture, one can do this for any of the subject areas and find that no Chinese journal is ranked highly. Why could this be? One might say that the good Chinese scientists publish their results in Western journals but why do they do this? After all, China is meant to be the world leader and so should have a very intellectual environment. You don’t see Western scientists rushing to publish their work in Chinese journals.

    Your claim about Chinese missiles is meaningless;

    All its missiles, from air-to-air to ICBMs, outrange ours by fifty- to one-hundred percent and their warheads doubtless pack a superior punch.

    What does this mean? Does it mean every single missile in the Chinese inventory outranges every single missile inthe US inventory by 50-100%? i.e. does a Chinese cruise missile outrange a US ICBM by 50-100%? If you are talking about comparitive classes of missiles, it would have been helpful if you actually did a sid by side comparison instead of just flippantly saying your ‘fact’ was true.

    If the follwing page is anything to go by, the US does not wish to retain very long-range silo based ICBMs, the newest Chinese ICBM, the Dong-Feng 41 has the same maximum range as the US Titan II ICBM which was decommisioned in 1987.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  24. @animalogic

    The US unfortnately is under the influence of a parasite and only engages in nation destroying endeavours

    • Agree: Sick of Orcs, Sam J.
  25. @Gibbon

    So what if they haven’t been the best innovators? Presently they have the most efficient system, making the best use of past achievements, which is the point of this piece. Gotta let go of that “white genius” narrative, it isn’t helping anyone. You can take any invention by x and say well y didn’t invent it, so x is still superior.

  26. Smith says:

    These constant chinkdicksucking is getting tiring.

    They can pour billions and billions into their navy and their would still get checkmated right in the sea by other countries spamming missiles at them ala the same exact problem USA runs into.

    Surface navy fleet is walking coffins.

    • Agree: TKK
    • Replies: @Eugene Norman
  27. The chinese empire has money to burn on the military, since rather than spending billions on their own R & D they just steal our tech.

    What tech they couldn’t steal our esteemed corporations or Israel sold them, or Cigar clinton gave them.

  28. aspnaz says:

    Well if defense includes reputational defense then they are outspending many other nations and certainly the USA: how many alternative news sites are now receiving funding from China in order to paint a rosy picture of what is an authoritarian regime. Names that come to mind include BBC (Foxxconn has sponsored a number of their productions), Pepe Escobar, MoA etc.

    • Replies: @foolisholdman
  29. @Just passing through

    It seems a bit odd to say that all China or Japan did was steal technology if their technology is now regarded as superior. As it is in the case of Huawei. Hence the fuss.

  30. @Smith

    Yes but China isn’t projecting its power yet. Maybe someday it will have a Mediterranean fleet but not for a century.

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @last straw
  31. Anonymous[603] • Disclaimer says:
    @Gibbon

    If you honestly think Japan merely ‘stole’ their way to success, you are a fool. It’s really that simple.

  32. aspnaz says:

    Correction: BBC (Tencent has sponsored a number of their productions).

  33. Smith says:
    @Eugene Norman

    It’s already packing a navy in Asia, an Asia where Japan, Vietnam and India stand.

  34. @Smith

    Asia is also where China is. If China had the reach of the US fleet it would have a north Atlantic and Pacific fleets, a Mediterranean fleet, an Asian fleet, a south Atlantic fleet, a Middle Eastern fleet and I’ve probably missed one. In that scenario no doubt the Chinese would complain about other countries building up their navy to combat China in any region as being a breach of “rules based international law”, but in that scenario they would be making the rules.

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • LOL: Nonny Mouse
  35. @Gibbon

    Yes China is so great at math that they’ve hardly ever made a novel discovery in the field and literally have to try and take credit for accomplishments made by

    Russian Jews

    and whites by pretending to have been involved in the research LMAO.

    That’s objectively true they tried to pretend as if they proved the Poincare Conjecture! They were given the task of vetting Grigori Perelman’s astonishing proof of both the Poincare Conjecture and the even deeper Thurston Conjecture(Note to the antisemites on this site the greatest mathematician of our era is a Russian Jew) and they modified his work a bit and claimed that it was theirs!! Plagiarism in broad daylight.

  36. @Wally

    Grigori Perelman’s proof of the Poincare Conjecture & Thurston Conjecture. You should get out your Dungeon in Codoh sometimes.

  37. @Eugene Norman

    Why does Huawei need AMERICAN chips for its 5G system to work?

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  38. @animalogic

    What part of Americans don’t ride trains don’t you understand? We need to spend the money on Inland Waterways and Rail Freight improvements.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  39. Moi says:
    @Gibbon

    Next you’ll tell us the US can build a 1,000-bed hospital in 13 days to fight corona virus) like the Chinese did. LOL!

  40. The 31% of Americans who won’t fight for her tend to be the ones who don’t contribute to her wealth and power, so if it gets too bad, goodbye leeches!

  41. Moi says:
    @gotmituns

    Sure, and the opium trade. You’re dreaming.

    • Replies: @gotmituns
  42. Perhaps the most important distinction is that China’s military expenses are an investment in defense of the nation (and for good reason). The US on the other hand has nothing to defend because nothing is, or will be, under attack by another nation. Thus, US military expenditures are virtually all directed to force projection and foreign control (colonization, if you will).

    The US does not have more than 1,000 foreign military bases (about 200 of which appear on no map) for ‘defense’ of the US. They are instead for (1) the defense of the brutal American form of capitalism and (2) to be able to launch war on any nation anywhere, striking with something within 30 minutes.

    The US military is so geared to aggression against (inevitably small and weak) other nations that it probably wouldn’t know how to defend itself against a competent and well-equipped (non-lesbian) military. As one example of “the greatest fighting force in the world”, in the World Military Games in Wuhan, China, in October of 2019, this was the result:

    China: Gold – 133; Silver – 64; Bronze – 42
    USA: Gold – 0; Silver – 5; bronze – 8 ( 35th out of 56 countries)

    Similarly, the US military might not have a clue about protecting the homeland. All of RAND’s war-game scenarios are about “picking up some crappy little country and throwing it against the wall, just to show the world we mean business”. If actually attacked, the US could probably be over-run with ease. If all of Latin America attacked simultaneously, they could probably own the USA in three weeks and Castro’s ghost would be sitting in the Oval Office.

    I have read several US media articles where High-ranking military officers claimed that China’s new hypersonic missiles could deny them access to much of the Pacific area and that there isn’t anything at the moment they could do about it besides stay far out of range. The arrogant provocations in the South China Sea are not based on military might in any sense but simply on the accurate perception that China doesn’t want to start a war, at least not by firing the first shot. If the Americans keep it up, that may one day change. Delusion and arrogance are not good substitutes for ability.

    And, while China does not necessarily ‘own’ all the materials manufacturers, it does own or control the most necessary, which means no $500 hammers or $2,000 toilet seats. It is probably safe to speculate that China can acquire identical items for 50% or less of the prices paid by the US. One more hooray for capitalism.

    It is surprising that Americans, being so superior in every way, fail in perhaps the most important area of all – realizing how badly their own government is stealing them blind. It is not a happy state when your biggest enemy is your own government but, thanks to true freedom of the press which exists only in the US, the press ensure Americans will never learn the truth.

    • Agree: Biff, Godfree Roberts
  43. @Eugene Norman

    They would not have got to this point if we didn’t export our industries to these countries and allowed their people to attend our universities and work for the research departments of our top companies.

    • Replies: @BlackFlag
  44. @Paul

    Yes, the US most certainly has the world’s biggest economy coming in at $21 trillion. Unfortunately it also has the worlds largest sovereign debt coming in at $22 trillion. That’s a debt to GDP ratio of 107%. Normally would consider that a company with those sort of figures would be insolvent. But hey, you can always sell the statue of Liberty.

    Oh, I forgot to add that the private debt in the US – corporate, financial, municipal and house hold – is about 5 times the above figure. Moreover there are also long-term financial unfunded commitments – pensions, social security, medicare. that boosts the overall US debt to approx 5 times the size of its sovereign debt.

    • Replies: @Paul
  45. @FvS

    I’ve seen that display put together before… You all must belong to the same network… Yeah sure – those are some real unbiased sources there… Well if China cheats on everything and only copies then there should be nothing to “worry” about. The Pentagon should save it’s money. It’s a waste to try to fight Huawei too since it’s all a mirage. Think of how much money all of that will save US taxpayers!! Run for office and use that as your platform… You could save hundreds of billions in taxpayer dollars per year and go down as the greatest President in history… (Yawn)

    • Replies: @Just Passing Through
  46. Godfree sounds so excited to the point of ecstasy that his patron, China, is bound to get into the hot waters with a leery world led by Uncle Sam sooner rather than later. A friend like Roberts is worse than a thousand adversaries!

  47. teotoon says:

    Can We Afford an Arms Race with the World’s Biggest Economy?

    No: we obtain raw materials and advanced technology from China. We have to restart our industrial base in order to compete.

    Or to put it another way: Can SEARS compete with Walmart if it purchases its inventory from Walmart?

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  48. Seems to be so many Americans who haven’t a clue about the facts of their own history, instead believing some Disney fairytale about innovation, superiority, critical thinking abilities, inventiveness, and so much more. None of that was ever true. The stories today about the world copying US inventions and IP while the Americans, pure as the driven snow, would never even think of doing such a thing, god forbid, are just that – stories. For children whose mental level is at “My daddy can beat up your daddy”.

    Why don’t you take a few minutes to learn some truth about American theivery of inventions and IP? Forget about China. There is no evidence China stole anything from the US, and accusations do not constitute proof. Sorry to present you with existential threats, but here are some articles you should read.

    One is about the massive US thefts from Germany during and after both World Wars, facts your history books don’t tell you. The second is about most other kinds of IP theft. The third is about Project Echelon, unquestionably the greatest commercial espionage enterprise in the history of the world. The third is documented proof that China’s record of invention surpasses that of the US by orders of magnitude. Maybe it’s time for Americans to learn that everything their media tells them, is a lie.

    I don’t mean to derail Godfree’s theme of military expenditures, but let’s reduce the background noise of instinctive (and juvenile) China-bashing and deal with facts.

    The Greatest Intellectual Property Theft in History: Operation Paperclip
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/greatest-ip-theft-operation-paperclip/5694232

    Patents, Theft of Intellectual Property (IP), Product Piracy and US-China Relations
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/winner-copying-olympics/5698015

    State-Sponsored Commercial Espionage. The Global Theft of Ideas
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/state-sponsored-commercial-espionage-the-global-theft-of-ideas/5698092

    History of Chinese Inventions. The Present and the Future. Recent Chinese State of the Art Innovations
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/history-of-chinese-inventions-the-present-and-the-future-recent-chinese-state-of-the-art-innovations/5692922

    • Agree: Denis
    • Replies: @Tor597
    , @Godfree Roberts
  49. China went out of business!
    All speculation about China having an arms race with anyone is based on stale news.

  50. Parfois1 says:
    @Ayatollah Smith

    It is surprising that Americans, being so superior in every way, fail in perhaps the most important area of all – realizing how badly their own government is stealing them blind.

    That’s a sobering reminder to the raving Yanks here as to the root cause of the US decline: namely too much “freedom and democracy”, “exceptionalism” and similar slogans designed to fill empty heads. They have nothing to believe in other than bombastic boasting of a politico-economic system framed to reward the financial-investor elite and a subordinate political class in complete control of the levers of power.

    Here is a paradoxical conundrum for you (Yank reader) to solve: why do you proudly proclaim the superiority of a system that exploits you, alienates you, lies to you, clamps down on your few rights still left, enslaves you and, when the chips are down, will mow you down as MacArthur did to the Bonus Army protesters.

    By exalting such system you are a traitor to yourself, your family, your workmates and your social class of powerless workers who depend on selling their labour to survive. I can readily accept and understand that the investor/parasitic class support the system that privileges and protects them. That is self-interest and it makes sense.

    What does not make sense is the workers’ slavish submission to such state of affairs, let alone boasting the virtudes of being chained to such system. You are allowed to have self-interest too! It is not a solely prerogative of the rich and powerful. The house negroes (assuming you know the meaning) example comes to mind as a plausible explanation for such paradox (similar to selling oneself down the river), but that could not be applied to Whites (presumably most Yanks here). Or could it?

    Of course, I could be wrong and the commenters I’m addressing (dressing down?) here being in fact representative of the investor/parasitic/idle class, in which case I withdraw my discourteous remarks. On the other hand, it is hard to believe that a member of that class would waste the idle time here. What for? They would hire a wage slave to do the boasting, so I withdraw the withdrawal.

  51. gotmituns says:
    @Moi

    No, so we can edumacate the slopeheads and Christianize them for their own good. Only after that is done should they be introduced them to opium again.

  52. @Just passing through

    If you go back into history – there is not one culture that didn’t learn from others. No question the US invented the chip industry… But if you are going to say East Asians shouldn’t be counted in it since they didn’t invent it – then reverse western society about a few centuries. You seem to think that everything in history was invented in the west… That is simply false. If you want to play that game – don’t ever eat an orange or an apple… Don’t ever navigate anywhere…. Don’t even use the scientific method either – while not invented in East Asia – it doesn’t come from Europe either… No scientific method – no modern science. See how that works?

    As to the other things you said – I already addressed it in another comment above to Gibbon… No need for me to rehash.

  53. onebornfree says: • Website

    Does China Outspend US on Defense?”

    I hope so. Because the more that China spends on its military, and the more it centralizes command of its military, the sooner the fake Chinese economy run by the criminals known as “the Chinese government”, collapses.

    The Chinese Disease of The Mind[“Mind Rot”

    This article is all about a Chinese disease -and I’m not talking about coronovirus. The disease is called “centralization of economies and resources is good”.

    This disease [of the mind] infects the author [of course ! 🤗 ], and, apparently, the majority of the heavily state indoctrinated Chinese population.

    This particular disease of the mind [I call it “mind rot”] will destroy them [the Chinese] at some point, as more and more of what the Chinese produce is forcefully siphoned off to benefit the lying scumbags that make up the chinese government and its parasitic , welfarized military , and it is therefor entirely possible that that China’s economic demise will occur primarily as a direct result of massive overspending on its military.

    “Pomp and Circumstance”- The Military Spending Scam- Military Spending =Welfare For State Indoctrinated Parasites With Uniforms and Guns

    Military spending by governments is just welfare for state indoctrinated parasites in uniforms with guns – its all about “pomp and circumstance”, i.e. grandiose displays by the state of militaristic power to impress the slaves and make them all believe that they are getting a good deal from their slave masters [i.e. supposed “safety and protection”], when the ugly truth of the matter is that they are all being robbed blind, are less free, and even less safe, because large, centrally controlled military forces are always fighting the last war [and are therefor perpetually at least 20 years out of date, regardless of how much is spent on them], and the truth is that any small, non centralized fighting force [eg guerrilla ] dedicated to random, unpredictable attacks on larger centrally controlled military forces and using the latest technology, will nearly always defeat that larger centralized military force, eventually.

    The US Ain’t That Much Better

    Of course, all of the above applies to US military spending [and that of any other country], as well. However, it still appears that overall, the Chinese are further down the total centralization path than the US is at the present time, but make no mistake, the further down the same centralization road that the US travels, the weaker its economy becomes, the poorer and less free its inhabitants become [excluding the government and sycophants], and [ therefor], the lower its ability to effectively protect itself from outsiders,becomes.

    And so it goes…
    Regards, onebornfree
    “War Is a Racket”: https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.pdf

  54. @Ayatollah Smith

    “As one example of “the greatest fighting force in the world”, in the World Military Games in Wuhan, China, in October of 2019, this was the result:

    China: Gold – 133; Silver – 64; Bronze – 42
    USA: Gold – 0; Silver – 5; bronze – 8 ( 35th out of 56 countries)”

    The reason for the dismal performance is simple: they had other activities in Wuhan to attend to and couldn’t be bothered with athleticism.

    (It appears they were quite successful in those other activities, btw…… ) 😉

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  55. SteveK9 says:

    When Japan was first rising in the 1960’s it was very clear that they were copying Western products/designs. And, although it is hard to believe today ‘made in Japan’ was a term synonymous with junk (i.e. if something fell apart in your hand, the comment would be ‘must have been made in Japan’. Obviously, that changed over time, particularly with the adoption of Deming’s methods of Quality Control (based on earlier work by Walter Shewhart in 1930).

    Anyway, their economy continued to advance, by ‘borrowing’ technology and diligence. OK, didn’t bother me. The spinning mill technology that built up the New England area, where I live was initially stolen from Britain.

    However, I did think that now that they were rich like us, some great new inventions, scientific discoveries would be coming out of Japan. They would be giving back to humanity at that point. It never happened. I’m waiting to see if it happens for China. Maybe the easy breakthroughs are all done? Not sure. When I talk about breakthroughs I do not mean 5G … an incremental development. Those developments are important of course.

  56. @onebornfree

    No amount of evidence will convince free market absolutists that their economic system is flawed, and doomed.

    The Chinese, having abandoned communism, have become fairly non ideological. They are doing whatever works.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  57. Chinaman says:
    @Showmethereal

    We Are going to do what US did to the Soviet Union. The chinese will lure American into a new arms race until the US economy collapse. Let’s see who have a strong manufacturing capability. A workforce of 1 billion hungry driven Chinese or 300m of transgenders and “woke” snowflakes. A true clash of cultures.

    We need a large enough margin in sheer numbers as a deterrent such that the Americans have no illusions about chance of winning a war with China. As a Chinese, I know for a fact that’s things are nowhere as rosy as Godfree describes it and the PLA is the most corrupted organisation in China. All the generals are businessman and last thing they care about is war. I was on an American destroyer when it visited Hong Kong and the PLAN was invited onboard. All the PLA officers looked weak and undisciplined compared to the Americans. I think it did give the Americans the wrong idea.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  58. Anon[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @Showmethereal

    I don’t think that the Evangelicals see themselves as actually ruling the world. I think they are loyalist stooges to the intellectual elite, who are easily convinced to go along with fear-mongering arguments regarding national defense. Conservatism is associated with large amygdala gland, which is the fear-processing center of the brain. Conservatives are very neurotic, and thus are always desperately searching for relief from their fears and angst, and thus are easily convinced to go along with someone who makes them feel safe and good about themselves.

    Evangelical Christians are too low-ambition to drive or create policy. If they were in the position, they probably would do nothing.

  59. @Gibbon

    I dont know where you get your facts.The Chinese invented the chopstick, rickshaw, opium pipe and noodles. They are great innovators. Did you know that one Chinese genius discovered that straight noodles were inefficient and it was better to package them into nests. Although it took them 4000 years to do all this I think they should still be recognized and commended for their contribution to civilization.

    And where Chinese cities are concerned I advise one and all never to buy an apartment or rent long term in China because buildings are indeed falling apart. What may have started out as a luxury condo development soon turns out to be a maintenance disaster with elevators that break down, stairs that crumble and plumbing and electricity that malfunction. BEWARE !

    Why do you think all these folks hide away on container ships anxious to get to the good old USA? How many Americans white or especially black do you know are paying smuggling gangs thousands, packing themselves like sardines into a metal crate and heading accross the Pacific to work in white restaurants as slave labour until they pay off the debt they owe to the smuggling gang.

    I rest my case !

  60. Chinaman says:
    @onebornfree

    I hope so. Because the more that China spends on its military, and the more it centralizes command of its military, the sooner the fake Chinese economy run by the criminals known as “the Chinese government”, collapses.

    It is the other round. By your own admission, the US ain’t any better so it is a matter of who implode first. China have holding power and the pliant population. The US have the left, the Anifa and LGBT who cares more about transgender bathrooms than maintaining the empire. The CCP will be in power after you are dead because you will still, knowingly or unwittingly, buying and using Chinese products.

    I wonder when do all you Americans who have predicted China‘s economic collapse for the last 20 years get sick of it. Get your own house in order first.

  61. “Respect: 1.) a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities or achievements; 2.) due regard for the feelings, wishes, rights, or traditions of others”

    America was once a universally respected country throughout most of the civilized world, especially after WW2. And while we may, in the light of political and historical realism and revisionism, cast doubts upon the merit of same, there is little room for debate that the current situation throughout the world today is that the USA is no longer respected, so much as feared.

    The great respect we engendered after WW2 was not just a result of muscle flexing, but also largely a result of our efforts to assist others in the aftermath, specifically through the wise Marshall Plan and any other endeavor that attempted to raise up those who were devastated by the war.

    When I was child, my lower middle class parents were adamant about one thing: we take care of our possessions, and when we no longer needed or wanted them, we would donate them to the nearby orphanage. That orphanage had the motto: “No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child”, and that sentiment still brings a tear to my eye, even as I write this. And while cynics might doubt our altruism, I believe our nation never stood so tall as when we helped those around the world who were in need. Today, however, excepting Israel, we use all other nations like toilet paper, and feel entitled to do so.

    We have become a nation of entitlements at all levels, and we have lost the sense of respect for others in all spectrums: from the international to the individual. We see it here on Unz with the name calling and nastiness evidenced by so many posts. It is a national affliction. And it comes from believing ourselves ‘exceptional’. We are entitled to rule the world. And again, save Israel, we respect no others. Especially China and Russia.

    We tear up arms reduction treaties that took decades of trust-building to sign. We confront the Chinese and Russians up to their front door, and like the bully we currently are, say, “What are you gonna do about it?”

    Godfree Roberts’ article is about how the Chinese are responding to our obnoxious query. Not because they respect us. We have lost that possible respect through our belligerence over the decades. The Chinese are rapidly militarizing not out of respect, but because they fear us. Same for the Russians. And that does not bode well for anyone.

    I suspect if given the choice, the Chinese leadership would choose butter rather than guns to spend their Yuan on. We choose guns. They, being rightfully fearful, must follow our lead. Russia, to a far lesser extent, as well.

    Many decades ago economist Arthur Okun opined that the world needed far less races, and far more dances. America has long forgotten how to dance. Nor, it seems, even how to race and win.

    Currently, we only know how to threaten, rape and plunder.

    (And the Chinese and Russians are watching, closely. And preparing…… )

  62. What China has achieved over the last forty years or so is simply one of the great miracles of the age.

    The country’s total change and rate of change are astonishing.

    There is no precedent.

    This historically great people has literally gone in that time from something resembling the Middle Ages with the secular religion of communism to ultra-modernity and a hybrid system of governance that leaves the West far behind in its efficiency. China’s handling of the Coronavirus outbreak has been recognized as exemplary. Western governments, paying inadequate attention to what China was doing, are now being hit hard with the same disease China has under control.

    Besides having become the world’s industrial workshop, China right now has a remarkable rover on the dark side of the moon which cleverly feeds its data to a satellite in lunar orbit. It has already made some new and interesting discoveries about the moon’s structure. They also are involved in some cutting-edge work in quantum physics, including an encryption application for communications. China’s work in cloning, embryology and virology are world-class.

    China has developed hypersonic glide vehicles. It has developed and installed laser weapons on its ships. It has developed and installed on at least one ship a large railgun.

    They have shipyards that can crank out the most ultra-modern ships like sausages. From having virtually no aviation industry, they are now producing planes and drones that are competitive with much of what the West turns out. They have literally rebuilt entire large cities, including massive subway and commuter-rail systems.

    And China has three-quarters of the entire world’s high-speed rail systems, and that was achieved in a country which is very mountainous. They are working with a mag-lev train now that will travel about 600 kph. They are building an entire system of modern national airports across the country and are expected to become the world’s largest aviation market shortly.

    Yet in some of the comments here, seemingly from angry American backwoodsman, we can see Trump’s exact style of wilful blindness and belief in the fantasy of American superiority and exceptionalism. There are none so blind…

    Actually, America’s largest achievement for decades has been in the number of people that it kills in all its wars, interventions, and coups. China has remained at relative peace.

  63. tomo says:
    @Lot

    have you been to China?
    From what I’ve seen while I was there, USA looks like a shithole in comparison

  64. Agent76 says:

    Sep 17, 2019 Catherine Austin Fitts Explains the Financial Coup D’état

    Catherine Austin Fitts has been following the story of the black budget, the missing trillions, and the back door in the US Treasury for decades.

    March 27, 2019 Pentagon: 95,613 Whistleblower Complaints, Trillions of Tax Dollars Unaccounted For

    As trillions of tax dollars in military spending have gone unaccounted for, the Department of Defense Inspector General has received 95,613 whistleblower…

    https://www.truthdig.com/articles/nearly-100000-pentagon-whistleblower-complaints-have-been-silenced/

    More than 50% of US Government Spending Goes to the Military 2010 US Spending Priorities

  65. Anon[119] • Disclaimer says:

    This article is an embarassment! Even PRC censors would spike it, guffawing & chortling.
    PRC GDP growth is now running at zero%

    PLAN can’t deploy even 10% of its fleet on any given day. 90% of PLAN fleet isn’t even sea-worthy, leave alone battle-worthy.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  66. This is complete BS-China Rising-Fear Porn.
    China is a joke. They just shut down their economy due to CoronaChan.
    They couldn’t even shut Wuhan down before 2+million people left the city thus guaranteeing the spread of this highly infectious disease.
    We are supposed to believe that the CCP is poised to rule the world? How can it rule the world when it is so busy welding everyone into their home?
    The facts: China began kicking out foreigners over a year ago by making it very difficult to renew a Visa. Pretty much every foreigner has left the country. Now that these people are decoupled from the Chinese money-feast we are beginning to hear how truly screwed up China really is.
    Try selling this crap somewhere else. No one but a moron would buy this.

  67. @Moi

    Go look at the after action videos.
    The ‘hospitals’, actually quarantine-death centres, are full of plumbing leaks.
    Humidity is wonderful for flu recovery. Everyone wants to be in an 18 degree celsius sauna when recovering from flu, right?
    Get a grip.
    This command system economy is only working because they undervalue their yuan, the people are forced to underconsume and they have a Great Firewall to hide all their dysfunction behind.
    In ten years everyone will be talklng about ‘what happened to China’ just like after the Nikkei plunge in Japan. You can’t build an advanced society on a mountain of [email protected] It will always sink.
    Mainland Chinese culture is a mountain of lies and [email protected]

    • Replies: @Herald
    , @Vidi
    , @foolisholdman
  68. @Smith

    Vietnam and India navies are of no consequence in this equation. The only thing they have is they did buy a few Russian missiles – which are very good. Vietnam also bought a few Russian subs which are good… But guess what – Russia sold China even more of those same subs. China had a headstart operating those subs – so you think they don’t know what the Vietnamese can do with them..? It’s kind of like Indians getting excited they were able to get S400’s from Russia – hoping to counter China – but seem to forget China is getting more S400’s from Russia than they are…
    Japan is formidable – but only if it is with the 7th fleet. Even then – it’s really a submarine competition. China has the largest missile force. You claim surface fleets are sitting ducks – well it is ironic you make that statement since China has the most missiles. China is the reason the US openly said they were removing themselves from the mid range missile treaty with Russia – because they hope to counter China’s missile force.
    Really the issue is who would win in submarine warfare between China – against US and Japan combined forces. The US and Japan have listening devices in large parts of the area. China has just begun expanding theirs. Right now the US/Japan have the advantage in that area…. But for how long…? And as China gets stronger – will Japan eventually do like South Korea and Philippines and basically say “stop using us to provoke China”??? If that happens – it’s pretty much “game over”. Even if that doesn’t happen in the next 10 years – Russia is the wild card. Based on what we have seen in the past few years – honest question – do you think Russia doesn’t share intelligence on US naval forces in their region…? I don’t have the answer to that – but if I was a gambler – my money would be on that already happening.

    Again – I hope we never have to find out who would win in a shooting war. The consequences would be too grave.

    • Replies: @Smith
  69. @Redneck farmer

    Get out of Redneck area and find out what’s going on in the world… Huawei now uses no US components in it’s 5G stations nor it’s mobile phones… SMH. Now those US companies lost one of their biggest customers. They design more powerful chips than Qualcomm – and they have their cousins across the Strait in Taiwan to make them for them (since they have the most advanced technique). The US did exactly what Napolean said not to do – which is provoke China by waking her up. Their chip industry was sleepy… Not anymore…

  70. @tomo

    Did you leave a first or second tier city?
    Did you even go to a 3rd tier city let alone the countryside?
    China just lost 25-33% of its pork supply in the last 18 months to Swine Flu.
    Why? Could it be that the Cultural Destruction by Mao destroyed animal husbandry knowledge?
    Every advance people describe about China is the result of PARTNERSHIPS with Western companies in which sharing of IP was and still is mandatory. The West built Modern China.
    Go to the countryside. See the 500+million peasants who live in rural poverty with little health care and no pension system (except a son).
    Then come back and tell me how great China is.
    China is currently sputtering and will not recover quickly. The last supertankers left Shanghai in early February. I look forward with baited breath to all the ‘what went wrong in China’ articles I expect to see 2 years down the road along with the ones from a decade from now: ‘Will China ever re-open for business?’.
    Xi began shutting down China a year or more ago. They have kicked out most foreigners. They are going into the ‘sulk’ part of the cycle. Remember, 6 centuries ago the Emperor stopped funding his Navy and China withdrew into itself.

    • Replies: @last straw
  71. BlackFlag says:
    @Just passing through

    Don’t you think innovation matters much less than execution nowadays since technology diffuses so quickly?

    European powers easily defeated the Chinese cause they had centuries of tech which the Chinese didn’t. Let’s concede that Europeans are better at tech. Know-how spread very slowly.

    Now, innovation can be copied in a couple of years.
    Furthermore, since the US is not even a nation. Chinese-americans will transfer to China, Indians to India, Jews to Israel, and Whites are left holding the bag defending a state that hates them. They might as well start transferring tech to Russia.
    LOL @ the US military ever having a significant edge in innovation again.

    • Agree: Mefobills
    • Replies: @Mefobills
  72. BlackFlag says:

    They’re also the ones rapidly taking over while the 44% who will fight are dying. Can the US survive for purely profit without having a shared myth of nationhood?

  73. @Mustapha Mond

    Yeah – that does seem particular. Though – truth be told… the US has never led the medal board in those games. Even at the last one it was 1)Russia 2) Brazil 3) China…
    Peculiar that the US military never does so well in those games….

  74. BlackFlag says:
    @Ayatollah Smith

    I don’t understand how the US government can get so screwed on acquisitions. Besides the set-asides for smallbusineses, non-Whites, women, and businesses in poor areas, isn’t US govt contracting pretty efficient? Competition is mandatory and regulations are quite stringent to remove corruption and waste from the process, no? If not, what is the main problem? Is Halliburton colluding with Booze Hamilton to sell things at inflated prices or what?

    • Replies: @foolisholdman
  75. @Really No Shit

    Exactly. Pretty embarrassing that he seems to actually believe his own bullshit.

  76. @teotoon

    Yes. This is probably the objective behind the Corona caper: destroy China as the end supplier, force retrenchment and bring manufacturing back to the US after a global financial conflagration (leading to something like the old gold standard, however adulterated).

  77. @showmethereal

    The truth is that just like Western elites do not have the political willpower to stop refugee invasions, so too do they lack the stomach of expelling all racial foreigners including ethnic Chinese. There is a reason why Chinese are flocking to the US to study at top schools and work for top Western companies…and then migrate back home with the knowledge they acquire, of course once they come back they cannot steal any more innovations, so they keep sending in more and more people and it is a conveyer belt like phenomenon.

  78. Mefobills says:
    @Redneck farmer

    What part of Americans don’t ride trains don’t you understand? We need to spend the money on Inland Waterways and Rail Freight improvements.

    I find this insightful. China has their own needs, so if they want to build high speed trains, then good for them.

    China spends money directly from their state banks, which act as their Treasury. This spending into the commons to build out infrastructure is a prime directive for any proper sovereign nation state.

    The U.S. is not sovereign, and instead is headquarters for globo-homo international capital. Or rather, globo-homo is distributed to include BIZWOG (Britian, Israel, Zionist, World Government.) Finance Capital, which is international banking runs the West.

    It’s all about the Benjamin’s and what the stock market is doing, never mind the stock market is not the real economy.

    The construct of Finance Capital won both world wars…. in other words, the bad guys won. I know a lot of people don’t want to hear they were born on the wrong side of history. They don’t want to hear that their forefathers were dupes. They especially don’t want to hear that maybe, just maybe, Adolph was right about everything. (Heads implode on the thought that maybe Adolph and NSDAP Germany were onto something.)

    But, anybody with eyes can see that the West is importing hoards of third worlders, while exporting jobs. In both cases (import people and export jobs), is to make “international capital” make maximum gains. The gains are all in monetary terms, and to hell with history, race, culture and all the other things that contribute to civilization.

    It makes no sense to blame China for making good decisions, and having a government that works for its people. It is better to look in the mirror … because we reflect badly by comparison to a real Sovereign Country. China, Hungary, Russia … these are examples of countries that have a soverign polity working for their people.

    If the U.S. were to reclaim its Sovereign money power. The big IF – especially since (((rent seekers))) are dug in like a tick. Then government spending on inland waterways and freight rail makes a lot of sense, because it makes movement of goods low friction and lowers prices.

    With regards to high speed passenger rail in the U.S., that will never work. American’s don’t like crowding on trains. Most likely, America will bypass high-speed passenger train ecosystem entirely by using vertical take-off electric powered aircraft like Lillium. Electric jump planes will ferry people from cities to regional airports. Regional airports will have efficient jet aircraft waiting.

    https://lilium.com/

  79. @Chinaman

    Question about the time-frame of your experience in Hong Kong. Watching old Hong Kong movies from the 80’s that was always a theme (corrupt mainland military officials – helping criminals in Hong Kong). Even back when I used to watch silly Hollywood movies – I remember the plot for Lethal Weapon 4 was that after the 1997 – China locked up all the Hong Kong triad bosses – and a corrupt general took them out of prison and sold them to their friends in the US. LOL. Now those Hong Kong movies were based on real life events… I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a tiny bit of truth in that Lethal Weapon film… Ironically – a real life story in the past few months is one of the most notorious Hong Kong gunmen from the 80’s and early 90’s was just released from prison in Hong Kong and deported to the US. Apparently he had gotten married in the US in the 80’s and is a US citizen… Hong Kong/Chinese authorities were only too happy to let him go. True story – his name escapes me right now – but I’m sure it’s easy to find online.

    I have heard about the infamous corruption in the Chinese military. That said – wasn’t that the main thing Xi Jinping said he was going to do and why they extended his terms in office – to tackle corruption?? A lot of people have gone to jail – so how much has it changed now…?

    There was a big story last week you can look up… The Chinese navy just did a month’s long naval training crossing the International Date Line. It caused a big stir. While “fluffing their feathers” – they shined a laser on a US surveillance plane which was apparently tracking them – drawing criticism from the US side… So it seems the military is much more serious now..? What is your take on recent times?

  80. Learner says:

    A very conclusive and interesting article. Thank you. The majority of the Chinese people love their country and is behind their government or a lot more would leave their country. They have learned to weather out hardships and stand up against many invaders. I wish them luck.

  81. @Anon

    I would like to believe that… But when I see that Paula White is the spiritual adviser to Trump – and how the Hagee’s hang out with Mike Pompeo… The idea that “God is on our side” pervades much of US foreign policy. I can’t help but wonder what Bible they are reading… Or rather – do they only read certain parts of it…?

    • Replies: @Anon
  82. Mefobills says:
    @BlackFlag

    Don’t you think innovation matters much less than execution nowadays since technology diffuses so quickly?

    This is also insightful.

    Anything invented in America is known by China within a very short time frame. Why? Because Chinese mine American patents, they sniff electronic communication, they implant students into colleges, and have Chinese nationals working in American companies as spys.

    Also, before American companies are forced to transplant to China, they are induced to give up hard-won technical know-how.

    The Patrimony of the West was already sold (or given) to China since the 90’s. The mechanism was for Wall Street to make wage arbitrage on Chinese labor. Since China is now permanently efficient, then wage arbitrage will go on forever. This truth is why it is imperative for people to stop whistling past the graveyard with regards to China. The U.S. has to change, not China.

    Even with China’s current difficulties, they can easily power through. Their industry has already moved up the technology curve, and any western genius is soon captured and monetized by said Chinese industry. The U.S. middle class is cut-out of this equation, as American’s (and other Westerners) are no longer working in efficient industry to make goods as prices. Making prices then fetches money.

    Example: All the know-how to make electric cars has a lag factor of maybe 2 years. Virtually everything created today no longer has a dwell time in Industry, where it can then mature to make prices. China’s sovereign workshop is enabled by the international traitor finance class. The internal traitors export know-how and patrimony to then make wage arbitrage. The arguments about how the West built up China are true, but it is equally true that China now no longer needs western capital and patrimony.

    China can do it on its own, but if Western finance wants to continue to give away patrimony, then why should China refuse?

    Western finance traitors destroy their host, then retreat to their walled compounds. Meanwhile, Manuel mows the grass and Maria gives BJ’s while Jack Horner parasite smiles.

    Little Jack Horner sat in a corner eating his pudding and pie. He put in his thumb and pulled out a plumb – and said what a good boy am I.

  83. Paul says:
    @Donald Duck

    Much of that debt, though, is owed to Americans. Want to recapture it? Than raise taxes on the rich.

  84. @Anon

    Yes, they’re stereotypical useful idiots.

  85. @Just Passing Through

    Sure sounds like Donald Trump, or one of his trailer park/Walmart/ NASCAR political acolytes.

    Enthusiasm about ignorance.

  86. @Lot

    Well, I suppose if you really tried, you could come up with a more sickeningly prejudiced and just plain dumb comment, but it would take a mighty effort.

  87. 52.Parfois1 says:

    “That’s a sobering reminder to the raving Yanks here as to the root cause of the US decline: namely too much “freedom and democracy”, “exceptionalism” and similar slogans designed to fill empty heads. They have nothing to believe in other than bombastic boasting of a politico-economic system framed to reward the financial-investor elite and a subordinate political class in complete control of the levers of power.”

    Yes. Well said.

    But that is all they have. Americans have no common culture, traditions or beliefs, no shared history to speak of. The only glue that holds them together is their evangelical political religion, which is reinforced daily to maintain cohesion. As someone wrote, “If France dissolves, the French people are still French. If America dissolves, Americans are nothing.”

  88. Herald says:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    This command system economy is only working because they undervalue their yuan

    And of course, the US has been just about surviving by running the dollar printing presses at full speed, night and day.

    Cognitive dissonance really seems to be weighing you down. Breathe in deeply, man up and accept the new world order for what it is, even if you don’t like it.

  89. @Mefobills

    Do you have any idea of America’s own historical record?

    In the late 18th and through the 19th century, Americans travelled to Europe – especially Britain and France – and bought copies of anything new they could lay their hands on – farm machinery and implements, window sashes, new gadgets of every description, fashions, textiles, and new published books and music.

    They brought the items home to be studied and copied, if at all possible, given America’s generally lower level of technology. The theft went on on a massive scale.

    Dickens, on his visit to the US, was furious to see his latest novel from his British publisher re-published in Boston in an edition for which he would receive not a cent of royalties.

    Theft of intellectual property was one of the major avenues for America’s advance for more than a century.

    So, it’s really a little odd to hear or read all the American self-righteous claims today over China.

    As though America always played fair.

    America has never played fair, at anything, so long as it could get away with it.

    But that’s good old America for you – breaking the rules and being self-righteous while doing it.

    Big Fat Mike Pompeo in a recent talk at Texas A &M University was chuckling and laughing about how in his days at CIA, they “lied, cheated, and stole.”

    That’s Big Fat Mike Pompeo of “the Bible is always open on my desk.”

    And what do you think the NSA is doing to all of America’s allies, not just its adversaries. It’s stealing from them and their companies, big time.

    America has simply become ridiculous.

    • Replies: @Anon
  90. @showmethereal

    I assume your chinese what idont get why chinese love german cars so much they cost a ton will start giving you trouble in 5 years and your resale s going to be pennies to the dollar,if you only knew how white car enthusiast annd journalists and a lot of white males are anti japanese cars, i can bring up any number of japanese cars that are much much superior to german cars like the Land Cruiser, Nissan armada, Infiniti Q60 and QX80 the older Infiniti fx35 and 45, all lexus cars ,4runner, most mazdas most acuras, the beautiful and powerful lexus LC500, lexusLFA ,RCF,nissanGTR,many japanese cars from the eighties and nineties , even Daihatsu, mitsubishi, isuzu Suzuki had great cars , sadly they did not sell in great numbers becuz the rich countries were not willing to pay what is a fair price for those wonderful cars., so the japanese stopped making, them if only the rich chinese would buy lexus ,Acura and Infiniti , Notice I dont mention Toyota and Honda thts because ever since they started building in the US their cars are just average now like the US counterparts.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  91. 66.John Chuckman says: • Website

    “What China has achieved over the last forty years or so is simply one of the great miracles of the age.”

    Yes, and so much more. Thank you for your factual comments, and for the kindness with which you express them.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  92. @aspnaz

    “how many alternative news sites are now receiving funding from China in order to paint a rosy picture of what is an authoritarian regime. Names that come to mind include BBC (Foxxconn has sponsored a number of their productions)”

    Last time I heard Foxconn was Taiwanese. The classification of the BBC as an “alternative news site” strikes me as (Ahem!) interesting! (Who would have guessed?!)

    • Replies: @aspnaz
  93. Anon[144] • Disclaimer says:
    @showmethereal

    John Hagee and others like him, while they are staunchly pro-Israel, do not have plans for what to do. He just knows whose side he is on (Israel’s side), and where his loyalties lie. That is how Evangelicals work; it is loyalism.

    Well, I don’t see much in Paula White being around Trump, as Trump created an Evangelical Advisory Board with her in it and wants to use it to shore up Evangelical support (https://thinkprogress.org/meet-donald-trumps-new-evangelical-advisory-board-6a5bfc5460d7/)

    Trump does not take Christianity seriously, as he has revealed so many times throughout his life.

    Contact with Hagee or Paula White doesn’t conclusively prove that they influence the administration and foreign policy creation; it only implies that they are saying words to Trump and Pompeo, which might or might not be about foreign policy, and which might or might not be heeded. But it shouldn’t happen because the public does not like it.

    I’d expect that the think tanks and bureaucratic intelligence set the policy. I’d expect that Fox News has more influence on Christians. Christians find such televangelists to be slimy. I’d expect that most Christians do not know who Paula White or John Hagee are.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  94. romar says:
    @Gibbon

    Friend Gibbon,
    Your prejudices about Chinese and Math are just that: prejudices.
    Take a look at the results of the International Collegiate Programming Contest – https://www.unz.com/article/does-china-outspend-us-on-defense/
    Check out especially the table titled “Years”: you’ll see that Russia and China have hogged the top medals since 2000, the last time the US topped the list was 1997!
    Moreover, do check out these faces of the 2019 American teams (MIT got a gold – a miracle!) on this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLXj8VDunV8&feature=youtu.be
    Harvard – at 1:52, MIT 2:58; Princeton 3:41, Chicago 5:43, Illinois 5:51, Nebraska 5:57, S. California 6:07, Wisconsin 6:32.
    Same with Canada: Duke at 1:13, British Columbia 5:32.
    And it would be more or less the same if we checked the teams and results for competition/achievements in other STEM branches. (Someone on this blog wrote about that)

  95. Anon[144] • Disclaimer says:
    @John Chuckman

    I’m going to need some decent, reputable links for you claim that the USA engaged in so much “intellectual property theft.” In the time periods you mention, I don’t think there was much in the way of intellectual property law.

    Your case would be better if you argued that learning and copying is not intellectual property theft. That is the right way to argue. The Chinese do engage in theft of software at a massive scale (they joke that “everything is free in China” because they pirate every movie, video game, and program), but most of their actual progress is just from learning, copying, and working. And this is legal and fine.

    But you couldn’t make that rather normal and obvious argument, because you had to blast the USA. What the heck is wrong with people like you, that you so gleefully do that?

    Shouldn’t you find it to be sad that the USA has sins in its past? I see your Walmart, NASCAR comment. I guess you are just incredibly full of hate, and it makes you feel good to attack people who you think are low and bad. You are what is wrong with the USA. Your behavior is what drives right-wingers in the USA to insanity.

    • Replies: @foolisholdman
  96. @gotmituns

    The last time the British tried that trick was in April 1949 with HMS Amethyst. It was a weird replay, almost to the century of a similar idiocy by HMS Arrow, but with a much worse outcome for the British. Amethyst went up the Yangtse between the Communists and the Nationalists and got fired upon, the Communist shore battery commander thinking that it was an American ship. Many sailors were wounded and the ship was captured and held for about five months before escaping downstream at night. It’s written up in Wikipedia as is also the incident involving HMS Arrow.

  97. @Just passing through

    It is impossible that East Asians would have managed to form their own industries if manufacturing had not been transferred to East Asia.

    I don’t agree. It would have taken them longer, but in November 1964, I saw in Fudan University Physics Dept. the students were making transistors as a bench experiment, using small blocks of germaium and indium pellets to make the gates.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  98. aspnaz says:
    @foolisholdman

    Sorry, I got the wrong company, I mean’t Tencent.

  99. Dannyboy says:
    @showmethereal

    Gooks haven’t CREATED jackshit, in quite a long time. They made use of the knowledge that was GIVEN to them by the West.

    The European Christian West literally created the modern world. Our blood and that of our people brought it into being.

    You’re welcome.

  100. Mefobills says:
    @Dannyboy

    The European Christian West literally created the modern world. Our blood and that of our people brought it into being.

    Yes… and it is now a moot point.

    Why? Because the west is carrying a vicious parasite. Chinese are not.

    China has their own sovereign credit, and their government works for their people, and they are fast followers.

    They can fast follow everything the white man invents. The dwell time for fast following is becoming less and less, especially as western parasite class gives away technology to get some of that sweet wage arbitrage.

    Also, it does no good to demean Chinese, or Japanese intelligence. They do have a smart fraction of high IQ people, and another smaller fraction of creative genius. In the case of China this is done from a large population base. So, in total numerical terms, China is probably producing as much genius as that of White men.

    Let’s stop whistling past the graveyard. Focus on the internal parasite.

    China’s women are not running around in Vagina hats, and China’s government is not inviting in hoards of turd -worlders. It is our (((internal enemy))) and their goy followers that should be focused on.

    It is actually a good thing China is forcing Western man to re-evaluate. For most western white men, it is crime-think to go against conventional (and wrong) narrative that has passed as received wisdom.

    • Replies: @Dannyboy
    , @Grahamsno(G64)
  101. Dannyboy says:
    @Mefobills

    Let’s stop whistling past the graveyard. Focus on the internal parasite.

    I’m with you, brother.

  102. Znzn says:

    How about China is unlikely to have a per capita GDP higher than Estonia or Greece before growth peters out to 2 to 3 percent a year that you see in Western European countries or the US in good years, like Taiwan or South Korea? So Chinese GDP is likely to top out at 1.5 times the US market exchange rates, before growth slows down to developed country levels. I am basing this on the assumption that the richer coastal provinces like Kiangsu, Fukien, and Kwantung will match the Taiwanese per capita GDP, but the poorer Chinese provinces like Anhui and Honan will always remain somewhat behind the rich Chinese coastal provinces.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  103. Vidi says:
    @Mefobills

    Also, before American companies are forced to transplant to China, they are induced to give up hard-won technical know-how.

    China did not force American firms to transplant their manufacturing to what Jeff Brown calls Sinoland. The corporations chose to do so voluntarily — and the price for access to the Middle Kingdom’s cheap labor was some transfer of technology. American firms were totally free to stay away from China, but even knowing the price up front they could not resist the easy profits.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  104. I understand and share the hostility many feel toward the US but why this leads to greatly overestimating the capabilities of other countries I can’t understand. Many of these same China superfans were declaring that Iran had whipped the US and Israel and there was nothing they could do about it and then boom went soleimani.

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
  105. Ron Unz says:
    @Ayatollah Smith

    “What China has achieved over the last forty years or so is simply one of the great miracles of the age.”

    Yes, and so much more. Thank you for your factual comments, and for the kindness with which you express them.

    Since some of the commenters here seem new to this website, I’ll take the liberty of mentioning a couple of the articles I’d published some years ago focusing on China and its economic trajectory:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/chinas-rise-americas-fall/

    https://www.unz.com/runz/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/

    • Replies: @foolisholdman
  106. Vidi says:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    Mainland Chinese culture is a mountain of lies and [email protected]

    You remind me of the Flat Earthers, who think that all the overwhelming evidence for a spherical Earth must be lies.

  107. @obwandiyag

    In the Cowboy Capitalism of the US, the investors in MIC get the profits and the rest of the country get the shaft. In China the state makes the profit and the people, too, by direct implication – no bankers, no stock options – just direct dividends.

  108. 79.BlackFlag says:

    @Ayatollah Smith

    “I don’t understand how the US government can get so screwed on acquisitions. Besides the set-asides for smallbusineses, non-Whites, women, and businesses in poor areas, isn’t US govt contracting pretty efficient? Competition is mandatory and regulations are quite stringent to remove corruption and waste from the process, no? If not, what is the main problem? Is Halliburton colluding with Booze Hamilton to sell things at inflated prices or what?”

    You ask a good question, but things are not always the same. In any area where the top 1%-owned multinationals are involved, meaning anything to do with defense, politics, imperialism, “nation-buliding”, international reconstruction like rebuilding Kuwait after its destruction, as with Iraq, that same top 1% have a license to steal, and they are protected by Congress, law and corruption.

    On the other hand, if the Denver airport needs new glass for the terminal windows, yes we have open tenders and a fairly efficient contracting system.

  109. Anon[144] • Disclaimer says:

    @John Chuckman

    “I’m going to need some decent, reputable links for you claim that the USA engaged in so much “intellectual property theft.” In the time periods you mention, I don’t think there was much in the way of intellectual property law.”

    Here is your “decent, reputable” link: (and yes, there was much intellectual property law during the periods in question, and your USA ignored all of it).

    Stephen Mihm wrote an excellent book titled “A Nation of Outlaws” in which he deals at length with 200 years of American patent and copyright violations and widespread IP theft.

    “SCOURGE of the FREE WORLD! PEDDLERS of POISONOUS FOODS! FLAGRANT PIRATES of LITERARY WORKS! COUNTERFEITERS of MEDICINE! A century ago, that wasn’t China – it was the US. A century and a half ago, another fast-growing nation had a reputation for sacrificing standards to its pursuit of profit, and it was the United States. As with China and Harry Potter, America was a hotbed of literary piracy; like China’s poisonous pet-food makers, American factories turned out adulterated foods and willfully mislabeled products. Indeed, to see China today is to glimpse, in a distant mirror, the 19th-century American economy in all its corner-cutting, fraudulent glory.”

    It was so bad that in the late 1800s, the US government was offering between $20,000 and $50,000 to anyone who could steal and bring to the US any useful European inventions. That was equivalent to several lifetime earnings in those days. The great Thomas Jefferson, when Ambassador to Italy, stole some “miracle rice” from Italy that was not only patented but any attempt at export was punishable by death. Brave man.

    *
    *

    “I guess you are just incredibly full of hate, and it makes you feel good to attack people who you think are low and bad.”

    Like so many Americans, you project your faults so precisely onto others. It is Americans who are racist and full of hate, who commit egregious crimes all over the world (and at home), then attribute all those faults to all others. No other nation in the world does this. Only the US of A. A great many of you are crazy.

    It is the same with your government. The US spies on everyone, everywhere, all the time, attempting to record any transmission between individuals and/or corporations and/or governments in the entire world – and it isn’t even a secret – yet the the accusations are made against China, or Russia, or whomever is out of favor today.

    It’s time wake up and smell the coffee. Why do you want to go through life being so ignorant?

    • Replies: @utu
  110. Kal says:

    China hates the west and hates white people. They are gonna smash us under their boot heel when their strong enough. Anybody who has spent time in China and knows Chinese knows this.

    The fools on here that think Chinese like whites are easily deceived. Chinese people are incredibly good at deception and hide their intentions extremely well. This is ingrained in their genetics and culture. The saying 口蜜腹剣 is a great representation of this mentality.

    In terms of their achievements, they have many, but they also have an absurd amount of issues. Someone mentioned their cities which is true outside the 1st and 2nd tier cities. Many cities are simply ghost towns because most people move move to Shenzhen, Beijing, Guangzhou, and Shanghai. Those cities provide the highest salaries and highest standards of living. If they cannot to those places, they will move to second tier cities.

    There are also extreme pollution in their water and soil not to mention the smog. Beijing has the best quality water in China, but a lot of Chinese have kidney stones as a result of the heavy metal pollution.

    Their test scores are always hard to tell if their legitimate or a good measure. For two reasons, Chinese always study to do well on tests and this is not conducive to good learning. Also, Chinese people are notorious for cheating; it is ingrained in their culture. Speaking of PISA, I would expect that they would be very high since it was from Shanghai, yes? I don’t know how many areas tested. If you go outside of the 1st tier cities, it would be much less impressive. That might just be due to rural areas having nutritional issues though.

    I personally don’t think everything Godfree says is a lie, but his work is hardly nuanced and Chinese people I have shown his work to feel that he is far too optimistic of the situation. These people are patriots by the way because most Chinese people have a deep love for their country.

    Other people on here seem to ignore the criticism “you can’t know if it is real in China.” They aren’t saying it is automatically a lie and bs, but it is really hard to actually trust the info, based on the nature of their society. That being said the west lies all the time about China so I don’t think we really have the best picture of the situation.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  111. Smith says:
    @showmethereal

    Why the need for navies?

    Vietnam, India and Japan can pull an Iran and launch supersonic missiles from their land to chink ships.

    Chink ships are literally within shooting range of all asian powers (yes, including India).

    China might have more missiles, but to do what? Shooting at the ground in Vietnam, India and Japan? Missiles alone do not win land war, and the moment the chinks are forced into a land war in Asia, that’s their worst mistake that can be exploited in so many ways.

  112. Chinaman says:
    @Dannyboy

    Hi Danny

    I thought we went over this.

    What have YOU creates or for that matter, any of us here created? Nothing of course.

    that is why allure of white nationalism is so irresistible to hicks like you. It empowers people who have done nothing in their life.

    I will reiterate that it is your Jewish masters that are the engine of creativity in American and what made Americans leap ahead of others. Look at Canada, Australia or even Britain. What have your cousins created since their founding?

    I will admit that the Chinese have lagged behind the world in terms its creative output for the last 300 years -a blink of an eye in history- but the kind of complacency and the delusion of grandeur you exhibit will ensures that white people have created the past and someone else will create the FUTURE. We shall look back at the transgender toilet as the last American invention in the next 100 years.

    Competition drives creativity. Talking about the glory of the past doesn’t.

    Good times create weak men like you.
    Hard times created the modern Chinamen.

    P.s. Please don’t bother replying to my “trolling”, I want to keep this thread on topic for everyone.

    • Troll: Dannyboy
    • Replies: @Dannyboy
    , @Parfois1
  113. Chinaman says:
    @Znzn

    I think you might have underestimated the network effect and the role of natural resources that an island like Taiwan lacks. It already cost more to hire someone in Shanghai and Beijing than in Singapore or Hong Kong so you might be underestimating the GDP contribution of the big cities in the future.

    Taiwan is a bad example, the country is hampered by democracy. It have been in a state of stagnation and decline for the last 20 years since they became democratic.

    Singapore is a better benchmark but you are right there will be large tracts of China like Anhui and the West that will probably never converge with the coastal region.

    GDP is a flow concept and annualised as a rate. The wealth of a nation or its “ stock” of productive capacity is what matters. This is obviously an anachronistic view of the economy but it also reflect how much of GDP is actually a sand castle. America have hollowed out most of its industries. flipping burgers, gaming or paper pushing is not production. Of course, there is also a lot of empty and wasteful GDP in China too so it is actually quite hard to make an comparison.

    • Replies: @Znzn
    , @Znzn
  114. @Just Passing Through

    Where does Mr. Roberts get the sources to back the claims of China being the world leader in scientific pursuits from? Mr. Roberts gets them from the sources that Mr. Roberts linked to (and footnoted) in the article.

    “Does it mean every single missile in the Chinese inventory outranges every single missile in the US inventory by 50-100%? i.e. does a Chinese cruise missile outrange a US ICBM by 50-100%?”. I should have written, “in each class, every missile in the Chinese inventory outranges every single missile in the US inventory by 50-100%”

    The Titan II was twice the size of the DF-41 and, though it boasted the same range, the DF’s speed is much higher, which goes to my point about the specific energy of Chinese propellents.

    • Replies: @Just passing through
  115. @Really No Shit

    When I was a young lad China got into hot water with a leery world led by Uncle Sam.

    As I recall, a bunch of Chinese volunteers kicked Uncle Sam’s ass–when China’s defense budget was 1% of Uncle Sam’s.

    • Replies: @Really No Shit
  116. @Ayatollah Smith

    Thanks for those references. Very sobering.

  117. @Mefobills

    Add to that the Lolberterianism capitalism with its muh shareholder values, Mike Whitney posted that US Companies had spent 900 billion dollars in share buybacks since Trump’s corporate tax cuts think about that a staggering sum spent just to enrich the executives in charge of the corporations nothing spent on R&D or on employee wages. No wonder Huawei came out as leaders in 5G because all these corporations do with their massive profits is buy back shares. Finance capitalism has wrecked US tech leadership the best and brightest in the US are into ‘Financial engineering’ instead of real engineering. The US which put a men on moon don’t even have rockets to put astronauts into the international space station. Shocking!

  118. @Godfree Roberts

    Thank you for the reply.

    You did link a Nikkei article giving the opinion of a Japanese research lab on the China/US innovation competition. However this still does not really match up with Chinese journals being so lowly ranked and China still sponsoring its people to attend Western universities and work at top Western companies like Intel for example. It seems the Chinese are pretty dependent on Western innovation as you do not see Westerners going to Chinese universities en masse and applying to work at Huawei or Alibaba.

    One can admire China for so beautifully exploiting the fact that the West is under an alien influence which serves only to weaken it, but I do question how innovative China really is. I am certain that if the West was ethnically purer and was under an authoritarian system, we could leave China behind in our wake.

    As far as ICBM’s are concerned, the US Minuteman-III was brought into service in 1970 and has a length of 18.3m and a range of 13,000km. This is America’s longest range land-based ICBM and can hit anywhere in China from the continental USA. China’s DF-41 meanwhile was brought into service in 2017. has a length of 21m and a range of 15,000km, it too can hit all US targets from mainland China.

    So China has managed to develop an ICBM that is ”better” (not really since even if it had a range of 13,000km, it would still get the job done) than an American ICBM brought into service almost half a century ago. A good achievement but hardly something that ushers in a new age of Chinese military supremacy.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  119. @Mefobills

    One has to wonder if these Western CEO’s were filled with hubris and imagined the Yellow man would continue being their coolie worker till the end of time? It is sure coming back to bite them in the backside as China wields its centralised and authoritarian system to copy and mass produce Western innovation, I can’t say such a thing is immoral.

    The question is whether it is too late? Would expelling all racial foreigners, including Chinese, or at the very least excluding them from sensitive research allow us to regain our lead?

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  120. utu says:
    @Ayatollah Smith

    A Nation of Counterfeiters: Capitalists, Con Men, and the Making of the United States by Stephen Mihm

  121. Znzn says:

    Why does Unz allow people like Metallicman and Godfree Roberts to post articles in this site, when we have no idea who these people are, or what qualifications they have, since they post under pseudonyms, does Unz even know who these people are? For all we know these could be just bums posting underneath a bridge somewhere. What do we expect next, articles about the benefits of showering to avoid getting AIDS, how man lived with dinosaurs, and alien abductions? Is Unz planning to deliberately sabotage this site, so he can create a new more mainstream one?

  122. Znzn says:
    @Chinaman

    A better example would be Korea and Japan, but even them are unable to match the per capita GDP of Austria, the Netherlands, and Belgium, let alone the US, Korea is stuck at 50 percent the per capita level of the US, about the same as Spain, with no signs of convergence.

  123. Znzn says:
    @Chinaman

    Singapore is a city state, how does it compare to Manhattan or the London financial district in terms of per capita GDP?

  124. @Just passing through

    The Nikkei article did not “give the opinion of a Japanese research lab on the China/US innovation competition.” The Nikkei article summarized the findings of Japan’s Science and Technology Agency. The article clearly explained JSTA’s methodology. Read it.

    If you can find a missile in our arsenal that outranges its Chinese counterpart, let us know.

  125. @onebornfree

    This article is all about a Chinese disease – called “centralization of economies and resources is good”.

    Before you exult, check your facts:

  126. @Kal

    Your comment is a variation on many here and elsewhere, essentially chiding me for being a ‘sinophile’ or ‘too optimistic’ or for wearing ‘rose-tinted spectacles,’ etc.

    I’m not an authority on China and, other than drawing pretty obvious inferences from the stats, try to keep my personal opinions out of what I write.

    I bend over backwards to use–and quote directly from–American, Western, and international NGOs, as you’ll see in the lower left corner of every chart.

    Only as a desperate last resort do I use Chinese sources, because I write for Westerners who have been raised not to trust Chinese sources.

    China’s stats have always proven out, and Chinese government statements, promises, and predictions have a long, publicly accessible track record for accuracy.

    I report the current state of affairs based on stats which I verify as much as possible by visiting China regularly.

    My predictions about China’s future are lifted 100% from official PRC Government predictions about China’s future.

    Those predictions have been 90% correct for seventy years and those who scoffed at them have been 100% wrong

    In one form or another, I’ve been trying to warn the US Government (upon whose largesse I am entirely dependent) and, recently, my fellow Americans to start taking China seriously.

    Thus far, I have completely failed. Suggestions welcome.

    • Replies: @Kal
    , @Mefobills
    , @Parfois1
    , @Jazman
  127. dfordoom says: • Website

    It would be surprising if China did not pursue outright military dominance, given our recent behavior

    China must pursue outright military dominance, if they wish to survive. Peaceful co-existence is not possible with the US. That’s not how the US works. If the US remains the dominant global power China will be crushed.

    For the sake of the world we have to hope that China achieves outright military dominance.

    • Replies: @Kal
  128. >all newer and of equal or better quality

    Newer equipment in Chinese naval service right now still makes less than a quarter of their total stock. Even the Russian army looks better with their cold war era relics. The situation would undoubtedly improve by 2028, but claiming that “all” Chinese surface ships will be newer and of equal quality to the US only serves to show the author’s bias (and stupidity, smart propagandists take care to avoid those sort of claims least they risk to lose all credibility)

    • Replies: @utu
  129. utu says:
    @threestars

    “Even the Russian army looks better with their cold war era relics.” – Russian army is modernizing.

    Russian Soldiers Ordered to Use Socks
    https://www.pri.org/stories/2013-01-14/russian-soldiers-ordered-use-socks

  130. 128.Znzn says:

    “Why does Unz allow people like Metallicman and Godfree Roberts to post articles in this site, when we have no idea who these people are, or what qualifications they have, since they post under pseudonyms, does Unz even know who these people are? For all we know these could be just bums posting underneath a bridge somewhere.”

    Ron Unz allows people to post here (including people like you) because this is his website and he can do whatever the hell he pleases.

    It is true we have no credentials for Metallicman or Godfree Roberts. It is also true that we don’t have your credentials either. Maybe you are a bum posting under a bridge somewhere.

    FYI, Metallicman is almost equivalent to a bum posting under a bridge, but I believe he lives in an apartment. Godfree Roberts – Dr. Godfree Roberts, Ph.D, is fully qualified to make the comments he makes. I don’t always agree with him, sometimes he pisses me off, but the man knows whereof he speaks.

    And, if ‘Godfree Roberts’ is a pseudonym, what the hell is “Znzn”?

    So, in typical American fashion, someone we don’t know and have no idea who he is, a bum with no credentials posting under a pseudonym from under a bridge somewhere, accuses a highly-educated person with great credentials as being a bum posting under a pseudonym from under a bridge. Americans are such a pain in the ass.

    Lastly, the only person on this platform who qualifies as having no known credentials, no money (which is why he’s posting from under a bridge), and uses a pseudonym almost as odd as yours, is Ron Unz. But then, as I said, this is his website, so what the hell can you do?

    • Replies: @Znzn
  131. Znzn says:
    @Ayatollah Smith

    No, I mean at least we know who Giraldi or Pat Buchanan or Steve Sailer or John Derbyshire or Fred Reed is, whether we agree with them or not, since we can see their academic pedigree or lack their off, how are we to judge who exactly Godfree Robert is, since he/she/it is using a pseudonym? And since he/she/it is an article contributor rather than a commenter, we should expect article contributors in this site to be subjected to higher vetting and contribution standards than commenters. Or maybe Unz should allow flat earthers to post articles about planetary physics?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  132. Mefobills says:
    @Vidi

    China did not force American firms to transplant their manufacturing to what Jeff Brown calls Sinoland.

    I never said that. Go back and re-read.

    Wall Street wanted wage arbitrage. The finance sector wanted to make illicit gains. Companies were forced to leave by various techniques, including green-mail.

    Green mail entails taking a companies assets and putting them on a double entry ledger, and then hypothecating new money, to then buy out targeted company.

    The companies assets, especially pension funds, are grabbed with fiction. For example, you are a raider, and you want to grab a company, you “borrow” their assets even though you don’t own them.

    If greenmailers don’t end up taking over their target, they can make money on the upside as target companies stock is pushed higher in price. Greenmailers can exit their gamble on the upside. It is win-win for finance capital and did redound to benefit China, especially as China benefited from America’s hard earned patrimony.

    I call this “wall street becomes a hero while american labor becomes a zero.”

    By the way, China did help the wall street gambit along – don’t deny it. China recycled dollars into TBills rather than buying goods from main-street. This kept the wall street gambit going, and even helped along the property bubble gambit by forcing dollar interest rates low.

    Also, don’t deny that China DID steal technology with various techniques, especially copy cat factories.

    • Replies: @Vidi
    , @Jeremygg5
  133. Mefobills says:
    @Just passing through

    The question is whether it is too late? Would expelling all racial foreigners, including Chinese, or at the very least excluding them from sensitive research allow us to regain our lead?

    The only way is to reform the money system. It all begins and ends with the money – everything else is a knock-on effect.

    Matthew Ehret does a pretty good job of popularizing recent history of the “money men,” in a way that is easy to understand.

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2019/08/07/avoid-collapse-means-restoring-glass-steagall-without-green-new-deal/

    Man is a rent-seeker, and our (((friends))) do operate the usury mechanism to make illicit gains for their in-group. This is obvious and undeniable to those who are aware of facts.

    Glass-Steagal made the debt money system work by segregating banking to three types. Depository, Commercial and Investment.

    Depository was something like Savings and Loans, and this sort of banking was Gyro – and could only loan out existing “saved” money.

    Commercial Banking is the everyday economy of production and labor.

    Investment banking is wall street speculation.

    By segregating the debt money system into three parts, that prevented the usurers from creating towering piles of new debt instruments and speculative finance paper.

    There “was” a fourth segregation that was destroyed in 1971, and that was international goods exchange being marked by gold flows – this forced trading nations to maintain their trade balance. It prevented mercantilism – of which Germany and China are the biggest offenders today. China used Mercantilism as part of the Wall Street/China gambit.

    Today it is one big basket of “bank credit” rather than having risk segregated. The big basket is private bank credit created at debt, with the Federal Reserve Note being the big dog.

    As Ehret explains in link posted above, China is using its “powers of production” rather than using speculation.

    Everything China is doing, we have already done in the past. People that get upset about China need to look backward to America’s past, to then find the solutions.

    I have posted here at Unz about the “American System of Economy,” which China now operates. America and the “white man” has amnesia -as the parasite class issues its hypnosis and wipes out history (and creates genocide).

  134. 139.Mefobills says:

    “Also, don’t deny that China DID steal technology with various techniques, especially copy cat factories.”

    Maybe, but don’t get carried away with that.

    (1) Entry into China’s market is a gift of billions of dollars, so no harm in attaching a price tag to that.

    (2) Yes, China wanted some technology and know-how transfer because China doesn’t want to spend the rest of its life making toasters and running shoes.

    (3) There is no evidence that has ever been presented that China ‘forced’ American firms to transfer anything. What was done, was done openly and knowingly and considered a fair trade.

    (4) If technology were copied (or stolen), what would it be? There are no American firms in China manufacturing high-tech anything that China doesn’t already do on its own. And there are no American firms doing cutting-edge research on hypersonic missiles or quantum computers in China. American “research” is mostly about “how can we make this more cheaply without anyone noticing, but maintain our price levels?”

    Any technology actually transferred, however done, would be almost entirely in consumer goods, hardly of immense value or a threat to US national security.

    (5) This topic is almost all smoke. There is nothing real here, and accusations do not equate to proof.

    (6) China had very little chance to steal anything because since the 1950s the US engineered a total embargo on China for anything scientific or technical of any value. It was not very long ago that China couldn’t even import Intel’s little X-87 chips. And your US bullied every other nation into obeying – or else. Everything China has, including its moon rover, hypersonic missiles, GPS system, G-5 communications, high-speed trains, was entirely China-designed.

    But nobody in the US is able to see it that way. According to most Americans, they were responsible for China’s rise. The US did it all. China just sat back and watched while Americans remade their country into the success it is. In one of its annual reports, AmCham even took credit for lifting 800 million Chinese out of poverty.

    And of course, Americans are mostly all able to overlook that they have, for 200 years, been the greatest thieves in the world of all IP and inventions and patents. But that doesn’t count because Americans are “good” and the Chinese are just rag-heads without the rag.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  135. @Mefobills

    Have you got a reading list of books that could help on better understand the money system, especially from the National Socialist perspective?

    I’ve always had the belief that it was the money revolution that sunk Hitler rather than his racial laws which were common at the time. Money is the key to this and it would be good to understand it better.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  136. @Lot

    “China is so awesome that some day they might have a GDP per capita as high as rural blacks in Mississippi!”

    How many blacks are there in Mississippi and how many Chinese are there in China? See the difference?

  137. @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    The ‘hospitals’, actually quarantine-death centres, are full of plumbing leaks.
    Humidity is wonderful for flu recovery. Everyone wants to be in an 18 degree celsius sauna when recovering from flu, right?

    What is wrong with 18 degrees C.? (64.4 F) When I was a child, in war-time Britain 16 degrees C (61 F.) was considered warm enough and we laughed at the Americans who felt cold in less than 70 F. (21.1 C) What sort of Sauna runs at 18 C.?

    Go look at the after action videos.

    What are they and how do I find them? It seems to me that a hospital with plumbing leaks can be fixed fairly easily and is a lot better than no hospital at all. You sound as though you are choking with hate.

    • Agree: Escher
  138. 139.Mefobills and @Vidi:

    Gentlemen, since you don’t know what happened, let me tell you. It was simple.

    The owners of the huge multinationals, aka the Deep State, aka the top 1%, imposed through their power over the White House and Congress some new legislation for corporate America, namely that all profits earned outside the US would remain tax-free.

    The instant that happened, a company like Levi’s, making blue jeans for $20 and selling them for $40 could now go to China and make the same blue jeans of the same quality for only $5 but still sell them for $40. And the instant GAP saw that, they knew they were headed for the dustbin because Levi’s could sell blue jeans cheaper than they could make them. So they moved too, as did everyone. So they fired all their staff, closed their factories and moved to China. And they didn’t even have to spend the money on a new factory; they just found a Chinese factory that could make their blue jeans for $5 and they could sit back and count the money.

    If Mattel moved first, every toy company had to be right behind them, and this went through not only every consumer goods company, but even to metal and glass fabricating, to the point where there are no firms remaining in the US that can do any sophisticated metal work or even make glass in large sheets – they all must now buy it from China. Everybody moved because of the profits, and to hell with America.

    China did not steal anyone’s job in the US. Chinese factories are in business to make things, so why would they turn down a request to make 10 million pairs of blue jeans for a new customer?

    Similarly, “China” does not make low-quality products by choice. When you see all that rubbish at Wal-Mart, yes it was made in China, but how do you suppose that happened? Some Chinese salesman came to the US and said to Wal-Mart, “Please would you like to buy our really shoddy rubbish that will self-destruct in three months”?

    Not at all. The reverse, in fact. Wal-Mart came to China and found a factory to make low-quality frying pans (for example). Wal-Mart specified the kind and quality of metal, the thickness, the coatings, the fasteners, the packaging, everything to the tiniest detail, all to be made as cheaply as possible. Don’t blame China. A factory will make whatever a customer orders, and Wal-Mart, like so many other American firms, ordered the cheapest of the cheap so you would have to throw it away and buy another one.

    Forget Wall Street, forget pension funds, forget all the irrelevant stuff. There ain’t no philosophy here, no democracy, no human rights, no religion, no dog food. It’s just all about money.

    But not everyone did that. all of the worlds luxury brand products are also made in China, to the highest possible standard. China can make items better than Japan and equal to Germany, and they do. Chinese factories will make whatever a customer wants.

    The last part is that factories in China learned to make all those things, the technology and the knowhow, because if they didn’t have it, their customers gave it to them. This is very important. Try to understand. If a Chinese factory said “we don’t know how to put metal studs on blue jeans”, Levi’s was right there to show them how to do it properly. China didn’t have to steal that knowledge; Levi’s was eager to give it to them because they saw their production costs reducing from $20 to $5, and they weren’t going to let a few metal studs stand in the way.

    The truth is that the great American multinationals in which Americans take so much pride, were equal partners with your government in hollowing out your country and eliminating tens of millions of manufacturing jobs. The companies did it for the money and because, frankly, they don’t give a shit about either America or Americans. Your government cooperated for precisely the same reasons.

    Now you know.

  139. @FvS

    As I said in a different thread, the West is really engaged in a full-spectrum propaganda war against China, because they so worried about China’s development.

  140. Kal says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    I don’t doubt for a second China is a threat. I lived in China for sometime. I personally don’t think they are going to collapse or that everything official from them is a lie. It is not like western sources are very reliable regarding China. My comment was regarding why it is reasonable to not trust or simply admitting not knowing what is true. I am more on the end that people should take them seriously and see them as enemy. They are not friends of whites. They see us as a rival to be crushed and they are very strong. They should be taken seriously. I was naming actual issues because I keep seeing people just saying it is all a lie. It is not.
    I do think we completely disagree on the reason for their success. Chinese are connected to scientific reality. They understand racial differences and are not infected with idiotic egalaritarian nonsense. Not to mention, their government isn’t in the process of actively destroying their own country.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  141. @BlackFlag

    I don’t understand how the US government can get so screwed on acquisitions.

    I would imagine that Lockheed-Martin does not seriously compete with Boeing. Besides, what incentive is there for the government negotiator to try seriously to beat down the price of the latest Hi-Tech Whizzbang? Either when he retires he will get a seat on the board of the Whizzbang Mfg Co. Inc or he will have shares in it or both. He and the company rep he is negotiating with will know, that the chances are that the Whizzbang in question will never be used against a competent enemy and if it is full of bugs, well, so what? That will just stretch the delivery date and the price a bit. So how could the USG not get screwed? It’s not a bug, it’s a feature!

    • Replies: @BlackFlag
  142. Kal says:
    @dfordoom

    While I want the U.S. to collapse because it pumps cultural poison everywhere. China would be one of the worst replacements for whites; they would not only continue to pump the same kind of poison, but up it. They would also do everything in their power to keep the destruction of European peoples on course. I would not put it past them to actively steal our women if they ever gained dominance. China is nationalist imperialist country. They will be nationalist for themselves and everybody else has to be multicultural. Them coming to power would not help whites.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
    , @dfordoom
  143. @Eugene Norman

    Yes but China isn’t projecting its power yet. Maybe someday it will have a Mediterranean fleet but not for a century.

    Of course not, it’s not necessary. China has BRI, which is far superior than any fleet.

  144. @Anon

    In the time periods you mention, I don’t think there was much in the way of intellectual property law.

    In England the patent office goes back to medieval times. For example the story of the murder of Christopher Marlow was solved because after centuries of debate about it, someone realized that as his murderer was forgiven by the crown there would be a copy of the act of forgiveness in the Patent Office, and there was and it went into some detail about the event.
    This is plucked out of Wikipedia: “In England, grants in the form of letters patent were issued by the sovereign to inventors who petitioned and were approved: a grant of 1331 to John Kempe and his Company is the earliest authenticated instance of a royal grant made with the avowed purpose of instructing the English in a new industry.”

  145. @Ayatollah Smith

    Agreed,
    Interesting, however the only candidate that is willing to end the tax loopholes, and the one the MSM hates the most, is Bernie himself! What a surprise…

    One quibble, the Elites aren’t selfish, they are cosmopolitan, they want to see people become rich, just dont care if it is in America or not. They worked hard to make the Chinese rich, and bragged about Chinas success.

    Wht do you think even the White liberals with stagnant wages are so pro immigrant? They want the immigrants to do well, even if it is at the cost of others

    On the other hand, Chinese elites want China to become rich, and while they wish well for others, realize their task is to China.

    The biggest problem is not the political system, it is the cosmopolitan culture

  146. Mefobills says:
    @Ayatollah Smith

    Gentlemen, since you don’t know what happened, let me tell you. It was simple.

    Everything you mentioned is mostly common knowledge, and there is nothing I disagree with. Except of course, the false notion that I don’t know what happened.

    all profits earned outside the US would remain tax-free.

    Of course “international capital” wants to make its gains tax free. This goes without saying. How about carried interest loopholes? A class of “international” people want to make illicit gains, and then escape to their bolt-holes when things go bad. There is nothing new under the sun, only different flavors to the same story that has been going on for thousands of years.

    We can go down other economic paths as well, but this is not a forum for that – it would be book length. I believe I mentioned that “man is a rent-seeker.”

    The Wall Street/China gambit has many authors. There is plenty of blame to go around.

  147. Mefobills says:
    @Ayatollah Smith

    And of course, Americans are mostly all able to overlook that they have, for 200 years, been the greatest thieves in the world of all IP and inventions and patents. But that doesn’t count because Americans are “good” and the Chinese are just rag-heads without the rag.

    It seems you are triggered and emotional.

    Facts speak for themselves. You can go through the entire corpus of my writings here at UNZ, and you will not be able to find any comments where I denigrate China or Chinese.

    If certain Chinese were stealing technology – and they were – then it is just a fact. It is equally true, and the dominant variable, that American finance class gave away America’s hard won patrimony.

    Patrimony was given away to make wage arbitrage. The winners: Finance class and China in general – as technology and know how was transferred for cheap.

    The losers: America’s main street workers. A class of wage slaves in China, who were forced to work long hours for cheap were losers too. Labor in China will eventually be benefited as China climbs the industrial knowledge curve.

    I find it quite annoying when it is obvious that China did gain from America’s patrimony, and there are deniers. This did happen. Saying otherwise is spreading hypnosis at odds with reality. China also had done much on its own, and is to be admired for that.

    If you google “China theft technology,” there are more than a few hits.

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @Parfois1
    , @antibeast
  148. @Dannyboy

    A Chinese scientist has given the World a cure for malaria and got a Nobel prize for it. Chinese mathematicians solved a number of longstanding mathematical problems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_discoveries

    The European Christian West literally created the modern world. Our blood and that of our people brought it into being.

    It would probably, not have happened without four Chinese inventions: the Compass, paper, printing with movable type and gunpowder. Probably, it was also helped by two other Chinese inventions: stirrups and the horse’s collar. There were also many other Chinese inventions that were made use of and eased the path from feudalism to capitalism in the West, for instance cast iron.

  149. @Ron Unz

    Yes. Glad you reminded me. Two very interesting articles.

  150. Mefobills says:
    @Just Passing Through

    Have you got a reading list of books that could help on better understand the money system, especially from the National Socialist perspective?

    Yes, it was economy that both built and sunk NSDAP. Hitler almost had it figured out. When Hitler fired Schacht in 38 it was a fatal mistake…there was no need for war. Schacht knew exactly how things worked. Schacht as Reichsbank chairman, was one of the few men in history with a full working knowledge of the money system and what to do. At Nuremberg the (((bad guys))) tried to kill him, but the fact that he was fired in 38 was his get out of jail card.

    Richard Tedore Hitlers Revolution:
    https://archive.org/details/HitlersRevolutionByRichardTedor_383/mode/2up

    Zarlinga, the lost science of money:

    https://www.monetary.org/buy-the-book

    Schacht, the magic of money

    https://www.filosofiadeldebito.it/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/schacht_the_magic_of_money.pdf

    • Replies: @Sam J.
  151. @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    You don’t know much about China. Chinese home ownership is 90%. Rural residents have higher home ownership than urban residents, they also have bigger homes than urban residents. China’s basic healthcare covers 95% of China’s population. Most Chinese residents, including migrant works, now has retirement pensions. China is doing all this with only a fraction of America’s per capita income. Let’s wait and see which country, China, or the U.S., will have a better national healthcare and social security system, down the line, when China becomes much richer in the future.

    As for “China Doom” articles, you do not have to wait. I see those almost everyday. Yet China’s economic is getting bigger and its national power is getting stronger day by day.

    • Agree: Showmethereal
  152. @Smith

    The problem that China faces is not Viet Nam nor yet even India. There is only one country whose ruling class betrays a visceral hatred for China. It is possible though unlikely, that China will get into a war with either, but if it did neither would be looking to destroy it utterly. No. The problem is the USA, which seems to think not merely that it is exceptional, but that that exceptionality means that it ought to be the undisputed ruler of the world, “World without end, Amen.” That rules, even those they have helped to draft, do not apply to them and that any country that disagrees should be destroyed. They even say so!

  153. I’ve seen you use the royal “we” in reference to both the US and China. Which one is it?

  154. @Smith

    you are the true definition of cuck like most viets your country was razed to the ground your women and children were killed by british US and australian soldiers yet you cuckholds lay doown the welcome mat for US UK NZ australian vets that raped and pillaged your country dont be so self hating man

    • Replies: @Smith
  155. @Godfree Roberts

    Perhaps you aren’t a friend of the Chinese after all and maybe just are a double agent egging on fools to get into a deep panda pile.

  156. @Just Passing Through

    Anyone who thinks the Chinese are not innovative, inventive, should watch this on YouTube: “Chinese smiths allegedly forge a LARGE flange on the street”. I do not understand why the word “allegedly” is there you can see them do it!

  157. Mefobills says:
    @Kal

    They would also do everything in their power to keep the destruction of European peoples on course. I would not put it past them to actively steal our women if they ever gained dominance.

    The west would be much better off if Chinese were running things, instead of international finance, and a certain (((in-group))). Chinese don’t suffer from white people pathological altruism, and they cannot be guilted so easily with false narrative.

    Wherever Chinese nationals go, they DON’T try to take over. This may have to do with lower verbal IQ.. who knows. Even in Singapore, Chinese who came into power due to higher population numbers, tried to make space for Malay people.

    In terms of actively stealing white women, the line of causality runs the other way. Chinese women out-marry into white populations, leaving Chinese men out of the equation. If I were a Chinese man, this would piss me off, and I wouldn’t allow my women to engage in hyper-gamy. White women being given free-dumb in the West are just one more agent of destruction. Chinese women are not running around in Vagina hats and trying to use their government as daddy, to rape divorce men.

    In other words, to my Chinese friends, maintain your Patriarchy and be sure and keep your money power as Chinese. Don’t be infected by the western disease.

    • Replies: @Kal
  158. @Lot

    Last year 150,000,000 Chinese went on foreign holidays. They were welcomed by the countries they went to because they spent on average three times as much as American tourists. Is this characteristic of Mississippi Blacks? I think not.

  159. Smith says:
    @eastkekiisawhiteguy

    Why am I a cuck for speaking facts? It is factual that China billion billion spent navies get checkmated by hundred millions spent on missiles. This is what the chinks say themselves, yet they foolishly spend on more surface navies anyway.

    They shall reap what they sow.

  160. Mefobills says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Thus far, I have completely failed. Suggestions welcome

    You haven’t failed. Keep up the good work. There are “silent” types who read and think, but do not reply. They are not triggered and emotional.

    I can take on all comers because I know my facts cold. Not everybody is like that, they are timid or have incomplete knowledge, so they remain quiet.

    I suggest that your respondents are a non-representative statistical subset of emotionally triggered types.

    Many people don’t want to let go of their comfortable shibboleths. They like their blankey, and when you rip it away, they become agitated, and un-moored.

    The thing is, facts have a weight and heft all of their own. Some people can deal with things, and others not so much. It takes them time, and even then they may not go there, or do the hard work of re-wiring what they think they know.

    There may even be people in the military intelligence community nodding their head in agreement with you. It takes more than two digits of IQ and some degree of willingness to learn.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  161. @eastkekiisawhiteguy

    You shouldnt assume. And generally – German cars have higher build and material quality. Japanese cars have better reliability though. But that is not really the topic of the thread. No question though they are the top in cars. They are also the top two in industrial robots too (though China is rapidly closing the gap in robots).

  162. d dan says:
    @Mefobills

    “If certain Chinese were stealing technology – and they were – then it is just a fact. “

    I agree with most of your fine opinions. That would include the above statement, because it is qualified with the word “certain”. However, your earlier statement (comment #139) did cause certain responses:

    “Also, don’t deny that China DID steal technology with various techniques, especially copy cat factories.”

    Maybe the objection is due to your GENERAL implications with “Chinese” or “China”. If you would to be more specific, like says XYZ company steals, or maybe even broader statement like “There were a lot of stealing in China’s software sector”, then perhaps it would be less objectionable.

    There are thieves and dishonest people in every country. But generally, people don’t say “Americans were stealing”, “Swiss did steal” or “Germans did steal”. Do we?

    Also, don’t forget that China was (is?) a developing country. IP laws are universally less mature in developing countries. Are you claiming China’s thefts are more rampant than India or Thailand, in proportional term? Considering the size of the economy and population, are they more serious?

    In the context of discussing China’s development, your mentioning of “China DID steal technology” would therefore imply that you consider China’s stealing was a contributing factor in China’s achievements or something similar. So it is natural for people to respond. Maybe you want to clarify your opinion about how important is China’s stealing in its development?

  163. @Anon

    No disrespect – but Your last sentence is devoid of reality. White and Hagee are among the wealthiest televangelists for a reason. How on earth could you say no one knows them???? Politicians hang around them to get the votes of their followers.

  164. @foolisholdman

    I heard about those developments in the 60’s. What caused them to abandon that?

  165. Anon[225] • Disclaimer says:

    If I were China, Id hold an Asians-only conference with the Koreas, Japan, Singapore, Indonesia, Mongolia, and Thailand. Id show film footage of US inner cities, refugee resettlements, Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Maalmo, and Rotherham.

    Then Id ask the attendeees if they really thought the USA and its (((Masters))) had Asian interests at heart. That if the West’s (((Masters))) desired African and Mideast diversity to be imposed on east Asia. Then Id formulate a plan to keep that from happening.

    • Agree: Biff
  166. @Znzn

    how are we to judge who exactly Godfree Robert is, since he/she/it is using a pseudonym?

    For Christ’s sake, get a life. My books have been selling under my own name on Amazon for years, I’ve been writing (warning) about China for fifteen years, and my academic credentials can be accessed at http://www.umass.edu.

    Besides, I don’t present myself as an authority on China. I glean what useful information is publicly available and present it in context to identify trends–which I consider far more useful than isolated data or events.

    Case in point: the headline, “China’s economy has collapsed,” repeated ad nauseam in triumphal Western media is not borne out by data trends: “Coronavirus: China reports surprising YOY rail freight growth in February despite factory activity tumbling. Rail cargoes in China rose 4.5 per cent in February.” https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3064651/coronavirus-china-reports-surprising-rail-freight-growth

    [And spare us the ‘you can’t trust Chinese data.’ You can Compare the data trends to actual, existing China and you find a perfect match].

    As far as vetting goes, just look at the pasting I took from the aptly-named Ayatollah Smith for plagiarizing my Coronavirus article. There are thousands of readers like him lurking here–which is why this comments section is one of the bright spots in Western media right now.

    Informed comments, unlike yours, actually inform. I’m currently writing a book explaining how China actually works. Publishing draft chapters here saves me enormous editorial costs for fact-checking and–because it will have been vetted by a wide variety of skeptical people by the time it sees daylight–adds to the eventual value of the book.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  167. @Mefobills

    Your general point is spot on. China is doing what we once did so well–without our mercantilism.

    It prevented mercantilism – of which Germany and China are the biggest offenders today. China used Mercantilism as part of the Wall Street/China gambit.

    If, as most writers insist, mercantilism is a national economic policy designed to maximize the exports and minimize the imports of a nation, then unlike Germany, China is not a mercantilist nation.

    Its trade–imports vs exports–is in balance with the world, its currency is fairly valued and its economy is domestically driven.

  168. @Mefobills

    Thanks. I’m continually amazed, not so much by the double-digit IQ crowd, as by the editors and publishers of serious publications and even academic journals. Their censorship is stultifying and, ultimately, utterly destructive.

    Your comment about people in MIC is remarkably accurate: my one ex-MIC friend vets my ravings, confirms my suspicions, and says his buddies still in the business say I don’t know half the truth about China’s progress. Since I have no expertise and access only English-language literature, their contention makes perfect sense.

    Twenty years ago I compiled a series of charts into what I grandly called an index of leading social indicators, published them in hard copy, and sent them to every USG department head, political leader, and Supreme Court justice with a cover note asking if they were aware of the rapidity of our decline.

    I got one reply: a personal letter from then-DCI George Tenet, assuring me that the Agency was well aware of the trends and had been informing both Congress and the Administration about them for years.

    Sinister? Stupid? WTF?

  169. @Ayatollah Smith

    You make a good distinction. The proverbial jeans maker didnt even spend money to build factories in China… They just entered contracts. The money to build the factories were mostly from ethnic Chinese in Hong Kong – Taiwan – Singapore – and rest of Southeast Asia. They had already been doing that kind of stuff themselves. As they went up the ladder they put lower end stuff on the mainland. Well now – being ethnically the same people – the mainland is starting to move up the ladder too. But yeah Apple doesnt make phones in China. Foxconn makes the phones – which again increased Apples margins even more. Apple did however spend money to open R&D offices in China – because unlike some of the clowns on these threads – Apple is well aware Chinese are good at math and science.
    Elon Musk basically came out and said his US factory is ajoke compared to the new one built un Shanghai – with a loan from the Shanghai government ironically.

    But to tie this in to the article. In the same way China can produce a pair of jeans or a BMW to exacting standards for much less -and at a faster pqce – so they can with military equipment. I find it difficult to understand why so many find it difficult to understand

  170. Dannyboy says:
    @Chinaman

    Hey, why do you people try so hard to play great Western music? Don’t you have any great composers producing symphonies?

    I recall you were bragging on landing a probe on the Moon when last we spoke.

    Newsflash: We landed probes on Mars long ago and have had them photographing the farthest reaches of the Solar System.

    Once again, you’re ant people who are known as “The Jews of the East”. Seems you have the same fondness for fingering shekels.

    I hate to break the news to you, Chinaman. Jews have no civilization, never have. The ones who did contribute to the West (after our people relented and let them out of their shtetls) were educated in Western Christian schools and universities. Kinda like you people…lol

  171. @Godfree Roberts

    That’s a generic link to UMass.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  172. BlackFlag says:
    @foolisholdman

    Sounds plausible for high-tech stuff but not for hammers and toilet seats where prices are well known and there are plenty of vendors. See below.

    “And, while China does not necessarily ‘own’ all the materials manufacturers, it does own or control the most necessary, which means no $500 hammers or $2,000 toilet seats. It is probably safe to speculate that China can acquire identical items for 50% or less of the prices paid by the US. One more hooray for capitalism.”

    Seems like the US system should be more efficient for basic acquisitions but maybe less so for high-tech ones. Does that sound right? Maybe it’s just a personnel problem or maybe the US bureacrats are not as accountable.

  173. @Smith

    Exactly what scenario would China allow its ships to be within range of those missiles in a hostility..??? You make no sense. China more of and longer range missiles and rockets than the 3 nations you named. You must think China has military leaders as silly as you.

    • Replies: @Smith
  174. Kal says:
    @Mefobills

    You have little experience around Chinese people. You are another one of those people who think they are this benevolent group of individuals towards the west. In China, women who date out are considered whores, but Chinese men who get a white woman are given a lot of face. They have this obsession present all over their advertisments where a white women will be paired with a Chinese man. Not to mention their movies, they push antiracist and multicultural propoganda on the West while maintaining some of the strictest immigration laws. You can ask any of your Chinese “friends” who likely see you as a useful idiot to spread positivity about them. China and Chinese people have always been on good terms with Jews. Even now, nothing actually legitimate happened with the trade war because all of the oligarchs were against it. The trade deficit actually got worse that is how friendly China is with the Jewish oligarchs. Not to mention, Chinese people basically fellate Jews and seek to emulate them. You can watch IP Man 4 for an famous easy example of the type of bs that China pushes on the west.
    Chinese also don’t hate the Malays and they don’t see them as enemies. Chinese people believe that there was 300 years of humiliation by the west and they have every desire to return the favor. They are not peaceful. We are in the same category as Japanese to them, maybe even worse.

  175. Smith says:
    @Showmethereal

    Uh, if China is packing ships in the South East Asia sea, it’s within range of Vietnam, same for sea of Japan – Japan.

    China might have more long range missiles, but they also have more floating targets than any other asian nation and they are planning to build more.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  176. Mefobills says:
    @Kal

    Chinese people basically fellate Jews and seek to emulate them.

    Yes, I know Chinese can be very Jew like, and they also were stripped of their Buddhist philosophy, so many are left with empty “materialism.” In general, there is no historical evidence of Chinese infiltrating and undermining their host.

    Chinese people believe that there was 300 years of humiliation by the west and they have every desire to return the favor.

    Maybe. Time marches on. One major weakness of humanity is this “spinning up of spectres.” The phantoms of the mind emanate from fear centers of the brain. We always have a boogey man that is built up out of vapor.

    Our (((freinds))) – descendants from pale of settlement immigrant wave (1890-1926), still hear the hooves of Cossacks, because of bed time stories their parents told them. And so, we now have to collectively suffer fear projections from the twisted minds of neo-cons.

    I’m not seeing as much pathology from the Chinese as you do, and maybe you should examine why you have so much fear yourself.

    The future is always unknown, and it seldom turns out like our fear centers project.

    With regards to white women… that is seen as manly, where Chinese man is a sexual tiger, and can please a white women. It is a status symbol.

    • Replies: @Kal
  177. Parfois1 says:
    @Chinaman

    We shall look back at the transgender toilet as the last American invention in the next 100 years.

    I could not restrain a sonorous chuckle!

    Thanks

  178. Parfois1 says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Thus far, I have completely failed. Suggestions welcome.

    The detractors are the real failures. Also the most vociferous – the truth hurts! Ouch, it really pains them to see live the comeuppance to their delusions of supremacy and exceptionalism.

    Hope the Chinese will be magnanimous and forgiving – but not to the elite scum. They should be hauled over the coals.

    • Agree: Mefobills
  179. Anonymous[125] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kal

    For what’s it’s worth, IMHO, the EU, the so called ‘European Union’ is a bigger, harder and more fanatical ‘enemy of whites’ than China can ever be, or hope to be.

  180. Parfois1 says:
    @Ayatollah Smith

    The companies did it for the money and because, frankly, they don’t give a shit about either America or Americans. Your government cooperated for precisely the same reasons.

    I liked the lesson and the entertaining delivery! Top notch!

    Now, they can’t bleat anymore the refrain: “The Chinks did it”, similarly to the “Ruskies did it” or the “Jews did it” – even though the latter might have done it. Come to think of it – the latter did build a country out of nothing (it was not theirs) entirely by the US “donations” (i.e. stolen) by bankers and government (from taxpayers “contributions”), including technology, patents, trade secrets, etc.

    But no-one says a word about that, let alone brag about it.

  181. Parfois1 says:
    @Mefobills

    I find it quite annoying when it is obvious that China did gain from America’s patrimony, and there are deniers. This did happen.

    So? Are you blaming the Chinese for “gaining from America’s patrimony”. That “gaining” was not imposed by gunboat “diplomacy” as the US did to Japan to open their markets to international trade, and worse tactics almost everywhere else – still going in the shape of sanctions. The US was all for “free trade” when it had the power to enforce it, but now “criminalises” it when it cannot compete fairly with others.

    International trade relations are not charity and the Chinese would be stupid if not grabbing the chance of a good deal for themselves. It is not their fault if the US elite, from the government down to Wall Street and the barons of industry and commerce all conspired to defraud the working people to inflate their greed and profits. They went hat in hand to China to make deals and the Chinese obliged. Literally they sold the working class down the river/sea. What do you expect? That’s what Capitalism is all about anyway.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  182. @Kal

    Ip Man is a Hong Kong series. Yeah it focuses on the racial abuse Chinese received at the hands of Japanese – British – and Americans. It is historical fact. I guess its only ok if Captain America or whatever superhero you like fights against the “bad” non Anglos huh? Or should other cultures tske that as a threat..?? Funny though – most westerners love to say that Hong Kong is not China and Hong Kong people are not Chinese. Reconcile that with the theme of the Ip Man series for me….

    • Replies: @Kal
  183. antibeast says:
    @Mefobills

    If certain Chinese were stealing technology – and they were – then it is just a fact. It is equally true, and the dominant variable, that American finance class gave away America’s hard won patrimony.

    Since the Chinese were mostly manufacturing low-value, high-volume consumer and industrial commodities for export markets, they learned the export-oriented trade and acquired their production technology from East Asians, not so much from Westerners who came later after seeing how lucrative outsourced manufacturing was in China. Remember the West boycotted China after Tiannanmen but East Asians came and filled the void left by Westerners after 1989. That lasted until China joined the WTO in 2001 when the Western MNCs then flooded into China. Also, a lot of the foreign investors before then were Overseas Chinese from HK, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia and other Southeast Asian countries who already had decades of experience and expertise doing low-cost manufacturing for export markets serving Western brands. The Japanese and South Koreans likewise went into China big time. To argue that it was “America’s Patrimony” is false because the USA had been outsourcing manufacturing to other developing countries decades before China joined the WTO in 2001.

  184. Mefobills says:
    @Parfois1

    So? Are you blaming the Chinese for “gaining from America’s patrimony”. That “gaining” was not imposed by gunboat “diplomacy” as the US did to Japan to open their markets to international trade, and worse tactics almost everywhere else

    If you go back and read closely, you will find where I said the DOMINANT VARIABLE was finance, i.e. wall street pushing for the export of jobs.

    I don’t blame the Chinese… would you refuse under similar circumstances? China, as a state actor was receiving decades, maybe hundreds of years of patrimony. America’s past was being montetized for today, to then screw our future. Today is that future.

    Every T.V. you don’t see made in Mexico under Nafta, but instead in China — then blame Clinton and the Wall Street crowd. The Mexinvasion is a subset of the Wall Street/ China gambit.

    The process began in earnest under Bill Clinton. Finance noticed a lot of nearly debt-free people in a former communist country.

    By the way, if you think closely on it… patrimony is the birthright we give our children. Labor and middle class was cut-out of life, to no longer make goods as prices.

    The hubris was that America was to be the innovative center, while China was to be the workshop. It was all fantasy spouted by the chattering classes.

    The thrust of my argument is that people need to stop blaming China, and look in the mirror.

    When I mention that China did steal technology during the transfer phase… they did. That is also a poor reflection on us, in that we allow it. Dominant variable = internal traitors giving away America’s patrimony for wage arbitrage.

    • Replies: @Parfois1
  185. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    Who’s “ we”? Thais? Americans? Chinese?

  186. Mefobills says:

    they learned the export-oriented trade and acquired their production technology from East Asians,

    You are circling close to the target. Atlantacism, international finance capital and rim theory are constructs that mesh together like gears in a machine. The construct is one of usury, and “takings.” It is not one of the powers of production redounding to laboring producers, but instead is takings vectoring to a finance class.

    Atlantacism is using ships to move material across the Atlantic (or in this case Pacific), to grab raw materials from one place, and then convert said raw materials into finished goods elsewhere.

    Finance capitalism makes/creates the money at debt to then allow the “trade” to go forth. Even a ship’s bill of lading can be used to hypothecate new bank money. Money centers in London typically did the deal, but now has spread to other centers like Singapore and off-shore zones like the Caymans.

    Rim theory is Navy control of a country’s rim, and rim is where a country touches the ocean. Rim theory is to control the import/export of raw materials or finished goods. Rim theory is to control the lifeblood of nations.

    Export oriented trade of China (and formerly in Japan) is to import raw materials by ship on China’s east coast, and then export finished goods to then earn increment of production.

    This model was perfected by Britain during her colonial era, where she sucked in raw materials from colonies, and then made finished goods at home, earning increment of production. Later Britain evolved to almost pure finance and no longer is an industrial center that makes goods as prices.

    Post WW2, Japan was allowed to, or kept her wartime industrial Capitalism model intact. See Princes of Yen by Richard Werner to understand the mechanism if you are willing.

    China, during the communist era, no doubt was watching Japan and Tiger economies who were operating under post WW2 Atlantacist umbrella, whereby goods movement was financed by finance centers, and oceans were patrolled by U.S. Navy.

    The secret industrial capitalism of Japan using credit guidance windows, and operated by the former Manchurian railroad engineers now at MITI – is the model China learned. This system allowed injection of State Credit into industry, to then make goods as prices, to then export in the Atlantacist system.

    Japan and later China “rope a doped” London and Wall Street economists, who were (and are) duped with neo-liberal economics, and could not understand what was happening under their noses. Neo-liberalism finance capitalism is to move your “capital” to find gains. It assumes both capital and labor is fungible. Labor can move using its feet.

    The Industrial Capitalism of Henry Clay, then Peshine Smith, then Frederick List, then Japan’s Manchurian engineers, then China … is off their cognitive map. It is not taught in schools.

    (I learned the method in the early to mid 90’s as I was with the first high tech American company to transfer its patrimony to China – ergo I lived it, and know things from first hand experience.)

    If Japan then China played the game well… then good on them. I couldn’t stop the idiots in the board-room at my company, who only thought in terms of EBITDA. They had no idea that China would inject state credit into industry to then accelerate their way up the industrial curve. We did indeed transfer decades of learning and know-how as a gift.

    I have said it many times, and it bears repeating – the West is on the wrong side of history, and is steeped in usurious “atlantacist” neo-liberal economy. The wrong side won in WW2 and we have money and prices that lie to us, as well as false constructs that inform our behavior, like GDP and EBITDA.

    Today is a re-run of Kaiser’s Germany, where a new competitor (China) has emerged running Lists (former American System of Economy) method. Industrial Capitalism again threatens Finance Capitalism in a repeat of history because humans are stupid and greedy, and cannot learn.

    Let’s all please stop with the chest thumping. Picking sides in arguments is a dialectic, when reality is grey – it is a blend. If white men invented most – then they did. If white people are carrying a parasite and are dupes operating under false constructs, then they are. If Chinese and Japanese learned and adapted well, then they did.

    I think it is more important to get facts right and dispense with false pride. Otherwise, as a species we are at a dead end, and will not move forward.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  187. @Godfree Roberts

    You’re the one who claimed to have academic credentials to show off. Apparently not.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  188. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Godfree Roberts has no credibility. Were he more realistic and just wrote about China’s real achievements I might believe him. As it is, he comes across as a paid propagandist.

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
  189. Kal says:
    @Mefobills

    I speak Chinese and I have lived in China until recently. Chinese people hate the west. This is just reality. Would I like it to be so? No, but that doesn’t change anything. I was not exposed to very much Neocon propaganda. Most of my life had pro Chinese propaganda. Going to China and learning Chinese, changed my perspective. Chinese people are very good at long term planning and hiding their intentions. They are incredibly good at masking their emotions; point being they are never honest with you. They are rarely honest with each other much less outsiders. Also, you just completely ignore my point about why they would want to steal our women. They have an obvious obsession over white women that you seem to be aware of. But yea, Jews are our internal problem and China is the external one. They have shown this by their own behavior repeatedly. I am not sure why you think they are friendly to whites. You’re just plain naive. When China rises to power, they will support the multiculturalist agenda and the Jews. Nothing will change for the west other than maybe more Chinese immigration because they want the land.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
    , @Mefobills
    , @Sam J.
  190. Kal says:
    @Showmethereal

    Hong Kong is a part of China so is Taiwan and if you think their film industry isn’t heavily influenced by Beijing, you’re ignoring reality. I am sorry, but the supposed abuse that occurred in the 70s in America is a load of crock and in the movie, you have a rich Chinese girl tell a white girl that white people aren’t real Americans; they stole America that is blatant multicultural propaganda. I actually liked the Ip man movies, but the 4th is complete trash regardless of the absurd politics that Chinese are somehow owed a place in American society. Also, comic books are trash and inherently Jewish in themes so no Thank you. Btw I am a slav not some Anglo. All of that is besides the point the movie still is multiculturalist propaganda and anti white. Chinese people push the same agenda as hollywood, but not for the Chinese of course.

    • Replies: @Kal
    , @Showmethereal
  191. Kal says:
    @Kal

    Haven’t seen Taiwan films was referring to only Hong Kong cinema.

  192. Chinaman says:
    @Kal

    hey have an obvious obsession over white women that you seem to be aware of.

    Believe me, as a Chinese, I can assure you we are not interested in fat (and aggressive) AMERICAN women (not to mention the brown and black one). I really think they have more testosterone than most Chinese man. We do have plenty of access to Russians and East European chicks (which are very receptive)… if one fancy hairy women that is… I like all beautiful women, whether they are white or yellow. They are just very rare in America.

    They are incredibly good at masking their emotions; point being they are never honest with you.

    The way Americans open themselves to strangers have a childish charm to it but where to draw the line between being honest and not having a “filter”? being honest and just being rude? being honest or masking their emotions to “save face” for the other party ? Personally, I think there are things that you need to be upfront\honest about (as in when you made a mistake) and there are things that you need to more discreet (as in when the other person have made a mistake). I am surprised you only see the downside of it.

    They are not peaceful. We are in the same category as Japanese to them, maybe even worse.

    Is this a surprise? America is the most hated country in the world. 1 million dead in North Korea, bombing our embassy, sanctions, trade war…what do you expect? The question is did we ever do to America? Yes, we made the unforgivable crime of stealing technology that Americans stole from someone else.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
    , @Kal
  193. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Kal

    I would not put it past them to actively steal our women if they ever gained dominance.

    You’re getting a bit paranoid.

    The West historically treated China with contempt. The Chinese have to date shown no inclination for revenge.

    And I think you’ll find that white men are the ones obsessed with Chinese women.

    All things considered it’s amazing that China has so little hostility towards the West.

    If there has to be a dominant global power then China is the one least likely to abuse that power. I’m not saying they are angels but when you consider the appalling track record of the West the Chinese do look pretty good.

    • Agree: Mefobills
  194. Dannyboy says:

    Is this a surprise? America is the most hated country in the world. 1 million dead in North Korea, bombing our embassy, sanctions, trade war…what do you expect?

    Chinaman cryin’ himself to sleep at night over 1 million dead North Koreans…lol

    I bet you had to seek counseling after contemplating that horror. And to top it off you’re all emotionally broken up about black slavery and the Inquisition.

    How many of your own people (mostly females) do you exterminate and turn into medical waste over there every year? Somewhere in the neighborhood of 22-25 million, right?

    Save the bullshit for the kiddies, Chink.

    Ok?

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  195. Mefobills says:
    @Kal

    They are incredibly good at masking their emotions; point being they are never honest with you. They are rarely honest with each other much less outsiders. Also, you just completely ignore my point about why they would want to steal our women

    They are honest once they get to know you. You forget that I have my own experiences, and I consider them valid.

    Chinese are insular to their families, and then it spreads outward. Family owned business tends to fail if doesn’t have a heir… this is a form of low trust society.

    Even despite their being low trust, they have an effective high IQ technocratic leadership, which runs circles around western duped and compromised politicians.

    I just plain disagree with you that they want to steal our women, and hypergamy being what it is, Chinese men lose out anyway. The real problem is white coal burning with negroes, and white women general bad behavior, not some weird phantom about the few Chinese men with trophy white women.

    On a civilization scale, the Chinese are aggressive only on their borders… their racial make-up does not enable them to be globe trotting hegemons.

  196. Mefobills says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    You’re the one who claimed to have academic credentials to show off. Apparently not.

    Appeal to authority false logic!

    Then I see it is Beefcake – and then… consider the source.

    Anybody can decide for themselves if logic and data meets a smell test. Authorities like “professors” are often peddlers of propaganda and false narrative.

    Godfree is collecting data and drawing conclusions. We should be thanking him for the hard work, and if you have disagreements, it should be on the data and conclusions… provided that is you do even a tiny bit of thinking.

    • Troll: Beefcake the Mighty
  197. Mefobills says:
    @Chinaman

    Chinaman,

    You do yourself a disservice in an otherwise good post:

    Yes, we made the unforgivable crime of stealing technology that Americans stole from someone else.

    As I have said earlier, it was mostly gifted patrimony from U.S. to China. Then there was some Chinese theft then and now.

    With regards to American thievery in the past – that is not really true. Most of the inventors from the past toiled neck and neck with other Europeans, to then invent.

    This is entirely different than outright lifting of technology and maneuvering companies to give up their trade secrets – to then have access to the Chinese market.

    Good and bad things can happen simultaneously.

  198. Chinaman says:
    @Dannyboy

    Chinaman cryin’ himself to sleep at night over 1 million dead North Koreans

    Hi Dannyboy

    To be clear, it is 1 million poorly equipped Chinese charging against machine gun positions until the bullets run out, pushing the Americans to the 38 line. I wish you were there so the chinks can teach you some respect your parents never taught you. What gets me emotional is the scene where you cry for your mama when your bullets run out and a wall of Chinese is charging at you. I wonder what they would have done to you. One of the Chinese invention you never heard of is the firecracker. Some crazy commies used to stick it up a girl’s vagina and light it up for fun. I think you will find the Chinese quite innovative when it comes to torture. Haha

    I am just joking! Buddy. Don’t lose sleep over it, ok?

    Anyway, It was a pyrrhic victory in every sense and didn’t achieve much but Mao did prove the Americans were paper tigers.

    It is BS if you kill a million of us or shoot some babies and old women in My Lai, Vietnam but it is a tragedy if a marine ends up with a PTSD or end up in a wheelchair. If I need counselling, then you need help for being a psychopath.

  199. Parfois1 says:
    @Mefobills

    When I mention that China did steal technology during the transfer phase… they did.

    On reflection, you did not specifically blame the Chinese for the technological transfer and taking advantage of the business opportunities handed to them on a platter. But the implication was there nevertheless, as is seen again in the quote above which falls into the same category.

    Compare that with a report on a similar event whereby an American entrepreneur got away with a Chinese registered patent. You would not report it as “the USA has stolen technology”. You could say it if , say, reporting the wholesale theft of German patents, because it was done officially by the US army in industrial quantities.

    I have not come across instances of US companies suing Chinese ones or individuals for copyright or patent infringements (haven’t researched that topic, apart from some noise about Huawei’s cornering the G5 market) but presume, if there was significant theft, the holders would do something about it, such as using the confirmed parochial US fora for redress. If you add to that the use of state power to enforce private judgements – including sanctions and criminalising as federal crimes private disputes – against infractors then one is entitled to presume that the “China stole technology” meme functions as the justification of trade wars and more sanctions to stymie the Chinese economic ascendancy.

    IP abuses happen all time, everywhere but it is conveniently used to belittle the meteoric rise of China from an agrarian society to an industrial colossus in a little more than a generation. That is the difference.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  200. Vidi says:
    @Mefobills

    China did not force American firms to transplant their manufacturing to what Jeff Brown calls Sinoland.

    I never said that. Go back and re-read.

    Yes, you’re right. You said IF China should force the transfer of technology, ….

    But I was also right in saying that the Western corporations voluntarily handed over their technology in exchange for using the cheap Chinese labor, thereby making vast profits. China was totally up front about the price for exploiting its cheap labor, and the US firms chose to pay it.

    • Agree: Mefobills
  201. antibeast says:
    @Mefobills

    I agree with your prognosis that Wall Street Finance Capitalism did hallow out the Industrial Base of the USA. What I was disputing is the false characterization (which is common in the political discourse in the USA) that China got its industrial technology from the USA. The indisputable fact (I am not disputing this fact ) that there were US companies transferring their production technology to China does not imply — ipso facto — that ALL of its industrial technology came from the USA, given that the USA together with the West boycotted China after Tiannanmen in 1989. I was merely pointing out the economic history of the post-Mao Dengist Era: how China managed to integrate itself into the global economy by first attracting Overseas Chinese in the 80s, then East Asians in the 90s and then finally Western investors after China’s accession to the WTO.

    But decades before China joined the WTO, the Financial Capitalists in Wall Street were already busy rewarding US corporations for gutting their US factories and outsourcing manufacturing offshore. Bain Capital, the US Private Equity firm founded by Mitt Romney, was a pioneer in this game. This outsourcing business started right after WWII with GATT which became the WTO then followed by NAFTA. US MNCs today are essentially marketing companies: they do design and marketing in the USA but outsource the engineering and manufacturing of their consumer goods outside the USA.

    • Agree: Parfois1
  202. @Parfois1

    Someone actually quantified the quantity and seriousness of Chinese IP theft and published the results in the Cardozo Law Review. It makes fascinating reading for the nerdily inclined: http://cardozolawreview.com/prosecuting-chinese-spies-an-empirical-analysis-of-the-economic-espionage-act/

    Here’s an excerpt:

    [MORE]

    On May 2015, a dozen FBI agents armed with assault rifles and bulletproof vests stormed into the house of Dr. Xiaoxing Xi to arrest him on charges of being a foreign spy.42 Xi came to America from China in 1989 and is a naturalized citizen of the United States.43 Xi was chairman of Temple University’s physics department and was a leader in the field of superconductor research.44 Federal prosecutors accused Xi of sending schematics of a secret device, called a “pocket heater,” to agents in China to help China advance its superconductor research to the detriment of the United States.45 According to the DOJ, Xi had betrayed his adoptive country.46

    Temple University placed Dr. Xi on administrative leave, stripped him of his title as chair of the department, and barred him from speaking with certain colleagues.47 Months later, U.S. Attorneys finally showed Xi the evidence they claimed conclusively proved his guilt: an email sent from Xi’s account to researchers in China with the allegedly secret pocket heater’s blueprints attached.48 The blueprints were not secret.49 Indeed, they were not even designs for a pocket heater.50 Rather, they were for a different device that was patented and publicly available to anyone.51 After confirming that none of the information Dr. Xi had shared was secret, federal prosecutors sheepishly dropped all charges.52

    In a similar story, Sherry Chen, also a naturalized citizen from China, was falsely accused of stealing sensitive flood pattern data, ostensibly to aid a former colleague in China.53 In addition to charging Chen with stealing government data, prosecutors also charged Chen with “false statements” for telling federal investigators, among other things, that she had last seen a former classmate in “I think, 2011” when she had actually seen him in 2012.54 Although all charges were dropped, after a month long ordeal, her supervisors nonetheless fired Chen for demonstrating untrustworthiness.55

    Chen, however, was lucky compared with Dr. Wen Ho Lee. In 1999, Lee was a nuclear physicist at Los Alamos National Laboratories who was suspected of stealing designs for nuclear weapons for China.56 Lee was fired from his position at Los Alamos and then, after months of suspicion, was arrested and charged with fifty-nine counts of violating the Federal Atomic Energy Act and the Federal Espionage Act.57 Several of these counts carried a maximum of life imprisonment.58 Lee was kept in solitary confinement for nine months until he finally agreed to plead guilty to one count of mishandling data.59 Although prosecutors originally accused Lee of betraying his adopted country in the most heinous way, they finally dropped all but one charge and allowed him to be released the same day he pleaded guilty.60

    In the Wen Ho Lee case, prosecutors accused a nuclear physicist of selling secrets about America’s nuclear arsenal to the Chinese government.19 Lee was charged with fifty-nine separate counts for which he could have received life imprisonment.20 After holding Lee in solitary confinement for months, prosecutors allowed him to plead guilty to one count of mishandling data, for which he was sentenced to “time served,” and allowed this alleged traitor to walk free that same day.21 Perhaps similarly, two defendants in this Study’s sample, both Asian-American, were charged under the EEA but were allowed to plead guilty to “false statements,” for which they received sentences of probation only.22 The big question, of course, is whether these convicted defendants were actually “spies.”

    Statement by Judge in Los Alamos Case, With Apology for Abuse of Power
    SEPT. 14, 2000
    Following is a transcript of a statement yesterday by Judge James A. Parker of Federal District Court in Albuquerque to Dr. Wen Ho Lee, who pleaded guilty to mishandling nuclear secrets, as recorded by the court reporter. At one point the federal prosecutor in the case, George Stamboulidis, defended his dealings with the defense lawyer Mark Holscher:

    JUDGE PARKER — Dr. Lee, you have pled guilty to a serious crime. It’s a felony offense. For that you deserved to be punished. In my opinion, you have been punished harshly, both by the severe conditions of pretrial confinement and by the fact that you have lost valuable rights as a citizen.

    Under the laws of our country, a person charged in federal court with commission of a crime normally is entitled to be released from jail until that person is tried and convicted. Congress expressed in the Bail Reform Act its distinct preference for pretrial release from jail and prescribed that release on conditions be denied to a person charged with a crime only in exceptional circumstances.

    The executive branch of the United States government has until today actually, or just recently, vigorously opposed your release from jail, even under what I had previously described as draconian conditions of release.

    During December 1999, the then-United States attorney, who has since resigned, and his assistants presented me, during the three-day hearing between Christmas and New Year’s Day, with information that was so extreme it convinced me that releasing you, even under the most stringent of conditions, would be a danger to the safety of this nation. The then-United States attorney personally argued vehemently against your release and ultimately persuaded me not to release you.

    In my opinion and order that was entered Dec. 30, 1999, I stated the following: ”With a great deal of concern about the conditions under which Dr. Lee is presently being held in custody, which is in solitary confinement all but one hour of the week, when he is permitted to visited his family, the court finds, based on the record before it, that the government has shown by clear and convincing evidence that there is no combination of conditions of release that would reasonably assure the safety of any other person and the community or the nation.”

    After stating that in the opinion, I made this request in the opinion right at the end: ”Although the court concludes that Dr. Lee must remain in custody, the court urges the government attorneys to explore ways to lessen the severe restrictions currently imposed upon Dr. Lee while preserving the security of sensitive information.”

    I was very disappointed that my request was not promptly heeded by the government attorneys.

    After December, your lawyers developed information that was not available to you or them during December. And I ordered the executive branch of the government to provide additional information that I reviewed, a lot of which you and your attorneys have not seen.

    With more complete, balanced information before me, I felt the picture had changed significantly from that painted by the government during the December hearing. Hence, after the August hearing, I ordered your release despite the continued argument by the executive branch, through its government attorneys, that your release still presented an unacceptable extreme danger.

    I find it most perplexing, although appropriate, that the executive branch today has suddenly agreed to your release without any significant conditions or restrictions whatsoever on your activities. I note that this has occurred shortly before the executive branch was to have produced, for my review in camera, a large volume of information that I previously ordered it to produce.

    From the beginning, the focus of this case was on your motive or intent in taking the information from the secure computers and eventually downloading it on to tapes. There was never really any dispute about your having done that, only about why you did it.

    What I believe remains unanswered is the question: What was the government’s motive in insisting on your being jailed pretrial under extraordinarily onerous conditions of confinement until today, when the executive branch agrees that you may be set free essentially unrestricted? This makes no sense to me.

    A corollary question I guess is: Why were you charged with the many Atomic Energy Act counts for which the penalty is life imprisonment, all of which the executive branch has now moved to dismiss and which I just dismissed?

    During the proceedings in this case, I was told two things: first, the decision to prosecute you was made at the highest levels of the executive branch of the United States Government in Washington, D.C.

    With respect to that, I quote from a transcript of the Aug. 15, 2000, hearing, where I asked this question. This was asked of Dr. Lee’s lawyers: ”Who do you contend made the decision to prosecute?”

    Mr. Holscher responded: ”We know that the decision was made at the highest levels in Washington. We know that there was a meeting at the White House the Saturday before the indictment, which was attended by the heads of a number of agencies. I believe the No. 2 and No. 3 persons in the Department of Justice were present. I don’t know if the attorney general herself was present. It was actually held at the White House rather than the Department of Justice, which is, in our view, unusual circumstances for a meeting.”

    That statement by Mr. Holscher was not challenged.

    The second thing that I was told was that the decision to prosecute you on the 39 Atomic Energy Act counts, each of which had life imprisonment as a penalty, was made personally by the president’s attorney general.

    In that respect, I will quote one of the assistant U.S. attorneys, a very fine attorney in this case — this was also at the Aug. 15 hearing. This is talking about materials that I ordered to be produced in connection with Dr. Lee’s motion relating to selective prosecution. The first category of materials involved the January 2000 report by the Department of Energy task force on racial profiling: ”How would that in any way disclose prosecutorial strategy?”

    Miss Fashing responded: ”That I think falls more into the category of being burdensome on the government. I mean if the government — if we step back for just a second — I mean the prosecution decision and the investigation in this case, the investigation was conducted by the F.B.I., referred to the United States attorney’s office, and then the United States attorney’s office, in conjunction with — well, actually, the attorney general, Janet Reno, made the ultimate decision on the Atomic Energy Act counts.”

    Dr. Lee, you’re a citizen of the United States and so am I, but there is a difference between us. You had to study the Constitution of the United States to become a citizen. Most of us are citizens by reason of the simple serendipitous fact of our birth here. So what I am now about to explain to you, you probably already know from having studied it, but I will explain it anyway.

    Under the Constitution of the United States, there are three branches of government. There is the executive branch, of which the president of the United States is the head. Next to him is the vice president of the United States. The president operates the executive branch with his cabinet, which is composed of secretaries or heads of the different departments of the executive branch. The vice president participates in cabinet meetings.

    In this prosecution, the more important members of the president’s cabinet were the attorney general and the secretary of the Department of Energy, both of whom were appointed to their positions by the president.

    The attorney general is the head of the United States Department of Justice, which despite its title, is a part of the executive branch, not a part of the judicial branch of our government.

    The United States Marshal Service, which was charged with overseeing your pretrial detention, also is a part of the executive branch, not the judicial branch.

    The executive branch has enormous power, the abuse of which can be devastating to our citizens.

    The second branch of our national government is the legislative branch, our Congress. Congress promulgated the laws under which you were prosecuted, the criminal statutes. And it also promulgated the Bail Reform Act, under which in hindsight you should not have been held in custody.

    The judicial branch of government, of which I am a member, is called the third branch of government because it’s described in Article III of our Constitution.

    Judges must interpret the laws and must preside over criminal prosecutions brought by the executive branch. Since I am not a member of the executive branch, I cannot speak on behalf of the president of the United States, the vice president of the United States, their attorney general, their secretary of the Department of Energy or their former United States attorney in this district, who vigorously insisted that you had to be kept in jail under extreme restrictions because your release pretrial would pose a grave threat to our nation’s security.

    I want everyone to know that I agree, based on the information that so far has been made available to me, that you, Dr. Lee, faced some risk of conviction by a jury if you were to have proceeded to trial. Because of that, I decided to accept the agreement you made with the United States executive branch under Rule 11(e)(1)(C) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure.

    Further, I feel that the 278 days of confinement for your offense is not unjust; however, I believe you were terribly wronged by being held in custody pretrial in the Santa Fe County Detention Center under demeaning, unnecessarily punitive conditions. I am truly sorry that I was led by our executive branch of government to order your detention last December.

    Dr. Lee, I tell you with great sadness that I feel I was led astray last December by the executive branch of our government through its Department of Justice, by its Federal Bureau of Investigation and by its United States attorney for the district of New Mexico, who held the office at that time.

    I am sad for you and your family because of the way in which you were kept in custody while you were presumed under the law to be innocent of the charges the executive branch brought against you.

    I am sad that I was induced in December to order your detention, since by the terms of the plea agreement that frees you today without conditions, it becomes clear that the executive branch now concedes, or should concede, that it was not necessary to confine you last December or at any time before your trial.

    I am sad because the resolution of this case drug on unnecessarily long. Before the executive branch obtained your indictment on the 59 charges last December, your attorney, Mr. Holscher, made a written offer to the office of the United States attorney to have you explain the missing tapes under polygraph examination.

    I’ll read from that letter of Dec. 10, 1999. I quote from that letter:

    ”Dear United States Attorney Kelly and First Assistant Gorence: I write to accept Mr. Kelly’s request that we provide them with additional credible and verifiable information which will prove that Dr. Lee is innocent. On the afternoon of Wednesday, Dec. 8, Mr. Kelly informed me that it was very likely that Dr. Lee will be indicted within the next three to four business days. In our phone conversation, Mr. Kelly told me that the only way that we could prevent this indictment would be to provide a credible and verifiable explanation of what he described as missing tapes.

    ”We will immediately provide this credible and verifiable explanation. Specifically we are prepared to make Dr. Lee immediately available to a mutually agreeable polygraph examiner to verify our repeated written representations that at no time did he mishandle those tapes in question and to confirm that he did not provide the tapes to any third party.

    ”As a sign of our good faith, we will agree to submit Dr. Lee to the type of polygraph examination procedure that has recently been instituted at the Los Alamos Laboratory to question scientists. It is our understanding that the government has reaffirmed that this new polygraph procedure is the best and most accurate way to verify that scientists are properly handling classified information.”

    At the inception of the December hearing, I asked the parties to pursue that offer made by Mr. Holscher on behalf of Dr. Lee, but that was to no avail.

    MR. STAMBOULIDIS — Your Honor, most respectfully, I take issue with that. There has been a full record of letters that were sent back and forth to you, and Mr. Holscher withdrew that offer.

    JUDGE PARKER — Nothing came of it, and I was saddened by the fact that nothing came of it. I did read the letters that were sent and exchanged. I think I commented one time that I think both sides prepared their letters primarily for use by the media and not by me. Notwithstanding that, I thought my request was not taken seriously into consideration.

    Let me turn for the moment to something else. Although I have indicated that I am sorry that I was led by the executive branch to order your detention last December, I want to make a clarification here. In fairness, I must note that virtually all of the lawyers who work for the Department of Justice are honest, honorable, dedicated people, who exemplify the best of those who represent our federal government.

    Your attorney, Mr. Holscher, formerly was an assistant United States attorney. The new United States attorney for the district of New Mexico, Mr. Norman Bay, and the many assistant United States attorneys here in New Mexico — and I include in this Mr. Stamboulidis and Mr. Liebman, who are present here today — have toiled long hours on this case in opposition to you. They are all outstanding members of the bar, and I have the highest regard for all of them.

    It is only the top decision makers in the executive branch, especially the Department of Justice and the Department of Energy and locally, during December, who have caused embarrassment by the way this case began and was handled. They did not embarrass me alone. They have embarrassed our entire nation and each of us who is a citizen of it.

    I might say that I am also sad and troubled because I do not know the real reasons why the executive branch has done all of this. We will not learn why because the plea agreement shields the executive branch from disclosing a lot of information that it was under order to produce that might have supplied the answer.

    Although, as I indicated, I have no authority to speak on behalf of the executive branch, the president, the vice president, the attorney general, or the secretary of the Department of Energy, as a member of the third branch of the United States Government, the judiciary, the United States courts, I sincerely apologize to you, Dr. Lee, for the unfair manner you were held in custody by the executive branch.

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @Parfois1
  203. antibeast says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    I think the issue of China’s alleged IP Theft is a red herring which the USA uses to deflect blame for the lack of global competitiveness of its manufacturing industries. German MNCs have been setting up their production lines in China, under the same political-economic environment as US MNCs but the Germans don’t complain about China’s alleged IP Theft or alleged “forced transfer of technology”. In fact, the Germans have succeeded immensely in the Chinese market because they treat the Chinese as their business partners. The Chinese auto industry is a good example where German brands manufactured under license by local JV partners have captured the biggest market share in China. The Germans don’t complain because they’re selling lots of locally-made German cars. The Chinese don’t complain because they can buy locally-made German cars. Rather than compete against German brands in the passenger sedan market, Chinese automakers diversified into trucks, SUVs and EVs where they dominate the Chinese market. Michael Porter of Harvard Business School has written extensively on this phenomenon of industry diversification. What US MNCs should do is to go back to school and restructure their industries so they can compete globally instead of complaining all the time like some spoiled brat.

  204. @Smith

    You live in a dream world. Again – under what scenario is Japan or Vietnam going to fire on Chinese ships???? Both of them could have their bases flattened by missiles from the Chinese mainland. China patrols the Diayou islands basically every week. This is not 100 years ago when China was weak and Japan could dictate to them. Vietnam – China last moved them off some islands in the 80’s… No one is dislodging anyone else – because no one is hungry for war.

    The only variable is the United States – because war is an industry in the US. However – at this point the only advantage the US currently would have against China in the region is in submarine warfare…. China has quiet diesel electric subs with air independent propulsion. They also have a dozens Russian kilo subs. What China lacks is good tracking of enemy subs. In the next decade as China works on its anti submarine warfare – do you still think that would be the case???
    Again your scenario make no sense. China has more and longer range missiles than Vietnam or Japan. The only issue is how things shake out with the US.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    , @Smith
  205. @antibeast

    Correct. Germany companies have lots of R&D now in China. It is their biggest market so now they tailor cars for the Chinese market. In fact they have a lot of their autonomous driving experiments and new energy going on in China now. And it goes both ways. Chinese start ups in the electric and hydrogen car markets hire a lot of Germans.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  206. @Kal

    Where do you get the idea their film industry is heavily influenced by Beijing..??? Hong Kong media is notoriously dominated by anti mainland sentiment. Especially print media. So ismthe education system. That is why you have young rioters in Hong Kong (and Taiwan) claiming they are not Chinese.
    The Ip Man series is about the man who taught Bruce Lee. Well look at Bruce Lee’s films. Back then Hong Kong was firmly a British colony and China actually was communist at that time. The themes of his films were however all about restoring the self esteem of Chinese people. It is a fact that he is not even 100 percent ethnic Chinese – but he returned to Hong Kong because he was discriminated against in the entertainment industry.

    Are you claiming Asians never faced racism in the United States? And what is false about the statement that America is a stolen continent?

    • Replies: @Kal
  207. antibeast says:
    @Showmethereal

    Yes. And the Germans were the first to agree to transfer their older technology to their Chinese partners but kept their latest technology in Germany. This business model allowed them to monetize the residual value of their previous models while profiting from the highest value gained from their latest models. So middle-income Chinese customers could buy the lower-priced BMWs, Audis and Mercedes-Benzs made in China while high-income Chinese customers would buy the higher-priced BMWs, Audis, Mercedes-Benz imported from Germany. So what did Chinese automakers who couldn’t compete against the Germans do? They diversified into trucks, autos and EVs. Now German automakers who want to produce EVs are investing in R&D in China which has 50% of the global EV market. That’s why TESLA has no choice but to go into China. Same with all the automakers from Japan, South Korea, UK, Italy, France, etc. who want to go into EVs.

  208. @Showmethereal

    Agree on the sub advantage though the Chinese have been acutely aware of the tracking challenge for years and have laced their seafloor with a passive sonar network.

    How extensive it is, I do not know but they are certainly alive to the threat and actively working to neutralize it.

  209. Sam J. says:

    Until we remove the Jews from any access to our military technology they will just keep selling it to China and stabbing us in the back.

  210. China needs a cold so the hole world Coffs Hmmm Wasn’t that said at a meeting in Israel some years ago ????

  211. Parfois1 says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Thank you for that excerpt, very instructive. I suspect Justice Parker must be a rare bird, the “old school” idealists in the Judiciary, a dying breed in most jurisdictions, still upholding their independence from the executive. In my opinion, somewhat informed, it is a losing battle because the prosecuting branch is an arm of the executive, an anomaly in common law. Most civil law countries separate the prosecution from the executive’s law enforcement agencies, hence a barrier for abuse of power and process.

  212. Anon[205] • Disclaimer says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    It’s $1.1 trillion on the MIC and another $38 billion to the “wonderful” country whose IDF snipers routinely shoot out the eyes of Christian and Muslim civilians in Gaza — like it’s a fun game. Oh wait, it is [to them].

    More than 50 civilians lost at least one eye from March 2019 through December 2019.

  213. Mefobills says:
    @antibeast

    What US MNCs should do is to go back to school and restructure their industries so they can compete globally instead of complaining all the time like some spoiled brat.

    People keep picking sides, and become part of a dialectic.

    It is more important to look at underlying facts.

    The facts are plain: The wall street china gambit included MORE than just wall street.

    Wall Street and finance capitalism has been running the West especially since post WW1, and WW2 was a consolidation of WW1 .

    China swept their communist era debt into a trash can, to then make themselves look good, to then get quasi MFN status.

    At that point in time Bill Clinton bent over and gave the wall street crowd what they wanted, which included screwing over the Maquiladoras, and labor in Mexico.

    I am going to continue to pound this drum. It is money at the root of all things. If you don’t look at things from the money angle, you really don’t have understanding.

    Capital in Wall Street combined with labor in China, to then transfer America’s patrimony. There is no arguing this, it happened.

    China helped the gambit along. Please stop being butt-hurt about this. They did. They created copy cat factories where technology was transferred at night. Simultaneously AMERICAN companies did transfer technology in open agreement to have access to Chinese markets, and Chinese labor. Two dance partners doing the tango, where labor in Mexico and U.S. was screwed over, while some labor in China was forced into slave-like conditions. Capital as money was happy.

    The conceit was that it was Chinese markets that were “accessed” when in reality it was Chinese labor, to then export goods back to the U.S. The china made goods were sent back to the U.S. screwing over American labor. The returning dollars won in MERCANTILE trade recycled back from China to buy TBills. This act is illegal in monetary terms, but since the U.S. is monetarily illiterate, it happened.

    Buying of TBills was purposeful manipulation on the part of China. The dollars did NOT RECYCLE to buy American goods, but unlawfully in my estimation recycled to buy TBill debts. The TBill recycling action holds TBill price up, holds up dollar as having value, and lowers interest rates.

    Chinese leaders were motivated to continue the theft of patrimony, and certain finance actors in the U.S. were motivated to accept returning dollars to buy debt instead of goods.

    I’m not sucking up to either China or America. My position is simply “what it is” and people have to accept the facts on the ground whether they like it or not, or they are being dishonest with themselves. Don’t lie to yourself.

    There is fault on both sides. If anybody reads my posts, they can clearly see that I am hostile to finance capitalism, and this construct is ultimately to blame for the transfer of patrimony.

    People can also go back and read where I don’t really blame Chinese for taking advantage of stupid American finance, who in their greed, sold- out America’s patrimony, to then make some temporary wage arbitrage.

    The continued trade imbalance is proof positive that China has a mercantile strategy. Mercantilism is bad. Balance is the watchword. Mercantilism is the export of goods in excess of imports.

    Germany practices mercantilism and screws over periphery countries like portugal, greece, spain, ireland.

    I’m fond of China industrial capitalist model, but any sort of mercantilism is predatory, especially when it is combined with active spying and methods for extracting technology.

    I think I’m painting an accurate picture, which punctures balloons on both side of the argument. If you fall for dialectic type arguments you are being emotional and becoming “vested” in your team, right or wrong.

    I am equally balanced with the “jew” question, and use facts to bolster my arguments.

    • Agree: Sam J.
    • Disagree: d dan
    • Replies: @ANZ
    , @antibeast
  214. “The continued trade imbalance is proof positive that China has a mercantile strategy”? It is proof of no such thing. In fact, it is irrelevant.

    Nor is China’s strategy mercantilist. China’s goods trade with the rest of the world is in balance and, over the last 10 years, its trade balance in services has swung from zero to a deficit of around US$300 billion. China’s global current-account surplus has fallen from 10% of GDP in 2007 to 1.4% today. Meanwhile, there has been little change in the US trade imbalance, indicating that America’s massive deficit is not China’s fault at all.

    In fact, the blame lies squarely with US macroeconomic policies: its low rate of domestic saving and high rate of federal borrowing, which tax cuts will increase. China’s large current account surplus in the 2000s was the flip-side of the Chinese savings glut that many economists blame for causing the global financial crisis.

    As a former chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors and Harvard professor Martin Feldstein has written, “every student of economics knows or should know that the current account balance of each country is determined within its own borders and not by its trading partners.” Basic accounting principles tell us that the United States’ overall trade deficit is the result of a shortage in national savings relative to spending due to excessive government budget deficits and households consuming beyond their means. The countries that show up as being the source of the offsetting trade surpluses are coincidental. [End the currency manipulation debate FT: https://www.ft.com/content/527f9d0a-b97b-3cd1-9fd6-2c6e75f3824f

    China incurred the highest trade deficits with the following countries in 2016:
    South Korea: -$64.5 billion
    Switzerland: -$36.8 billion
    Australia: -$32.6 billion
    Brazil: -$23.5 billion
    Germany: -$20.3 billion
    Japan: -$16.3 billion

    China aside, the United States incurred trade deficits with the following countries in 2016:
    -Mexico – $63 billion deficit.
    -Japan – $69 billion deficit.
    -Germany – $65 billion deficit.

    Both China and the US have trade deficits with Japan and Germany. Why? They are small countries compared to China and the US, but both receive the most ‘grace’ and benefits since China opening up its market to the world. Last year, Japan and Germany, both had trade surpluses with China and US for a total of almost $200 billions!

    China is often credited with exporting products though its economic value add is low. The original iPhone is the most notorious example: of its $400 wholesale value, China captured exactly $4.79. Yet China was ‘credited’ with the $400 final, assembled value, but the current accounting system does not show that.

    • Agree: d dan, Showmethereal
    • Replies: @Sam J.
  215. ANZ says:
    @Mefobills

    The continued trade imbalance is proof positive that China has a mercantile strategy. Mercantilism is bad. Balance is the watchword. Mercantilism is the export of goods in excess of imports.

    Please help me understand what you mean by meechantilism is bad.

    I’m trying to connect this to individual ethics which can then extrapolate to societal strategy. Isn’t it good for an individual to produce more than they consume? Does it become bad when a buyer cannot exchange value for value, but instead uses debt for the purchase?

    A country with access to natural resources and intelligent human capital to operate advanced technology can easily export more than it imports, since the natural geographic distribution of resources and intelligence is not uniform. Would merchantilism be a natural consequence of these unequal distributions?

    • Replies: @Sam J.
  216. Sam J. says:
    @ANZ

    “…A country with access to natural resources and intelligent human capital to operate advanced technology can easily export more than it imports, since the natural geographic distribution of resources and intelligence is not uniform. Would merchantilism be a natural consequence of these unequal distributions?…”

    That’s not what merchantilism is. Merchantilism is artificial rigging of markets to favor your country. China uses currency manipulation, tariffs, transfer of technology to do business, “special inspections”, etc.. They learned a lot of this stuff from Japan like the buying bonds of the US and threatening to dump them to forestall US trade tariffs. A bunch of these Japan learned from the US and Germany which used to have and still have some trade restrictions that favored their States.

    If you are Merchantilist and you’re competing with those who are not then you will win as long as they are not retaliating. We, the US, did this to Great Britain and ruined them. The reason this happens is in the bigger richer older power the rich gain control of the country and they put some of these extra profits in their pockets by importing cheaper stuff from overseas while running down the countries industry. We did it to Great Britain and now the Japanese and Chinese are doing it to us. The Capitalist are ones that make out and the country suffers. To make this stop you have to continuously protect your industry from other countries. This does raise prices for everyone but it’s better than losing all your industry.

    I would say Mefobills comment you commented on is 100% accurate.

    It may very well be the capitalist are going to stop the Chinese because the Chinese are smart. All the European and US Capitalist sold out their countries and transferred massive amounts of industrial know how to the Chinese for very little in cash. Short term, make profits for the boss, not the employees, RIGHT NOW thinking but then the Chinese after taking their tech told them to fuck off and took over businesses of the wretched betrayers of the West and cut them out of the profits. Stupid idiots. They have badly damaged their countries long term interest for short term profits and now are being shown the door by the Chinese.

    The Japanese are no better and a LOT of Chinese goods have a mass of Japanese parts in them but are marked made in china but the bulk of the profitable items in them are Japanese. The Japanese are smarter, less greedy and less short term than our Junk bond kings that run our countries. The Japanese DID not give away all their technical knowledge.

    I’m a capitalist but our capitalist are not really capitalist. They are Oligarchy where they have access to cheap capital the average citizen doesn’t have and they use that to monopolize businesses. They’re paid many multiples of what a Japanese company president is but have left the country as a whole in much worse shape while threatening our whole industrial complex. The lack of parts from China is showing this.

    Here’s a fantastic link on how Japan and now China run their countries. There are of course differences and this article focuses on Japan but there are a lot of similarities. If you look at both even with all the differences in wealth from rich and poor in China and Japan they run their countries far more for the common citizen than the West does. We used to do this and had rising pay in the West. If the Western leadership and manufacturing doesn’t change then the West will be stomped on by the East. There are many who say this is not true but their ideas don’t pass the common sense test. If most all you make is not under your control and not made in your country then eventually your citizens will become poor and not be able to buy anything from you. This starts a cascade where you lose the profits necessary to make new products and the whole thing falls down. There’s aslo the fact that the higher paying brain jobs you think you will keep will eventually by taken over by those actually making the stuff. Hard to understand that which you don’t make and innovation you make will just be sent over to your competing country where you lose it.

    http://www.paecon.net/PAEReview/issue23/Locke23.htm

    • Replies: @ANZ
  217. Sam J. says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    “…As a former chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors and Harvard professor Martin Feldstein has written, “every student of economics knows or should know that the current account balance of each country is determined within its own borders and not by its trading partners.”…”

    No matter what this guy believes the Chinese, the Germans and the Japanese DO NOT BELIEVE THIS. This kind of stupidity by people with spreadsheets for brains is part of why the country is going to hell. They will parrot anything the money Men tell them too.

    This guy can look at all the facts and see…well he can’t see a damn thing because the businessmen of the business school tell him what he can see and what not. It’s a proven fact that the US was a merchantilist power and that made us a great power. It wasn’t called “The American System” for nothing. It’s also proven that the Japanese did the same and the Chinese after them. Each country with their own little twist. I know it’s difficult to put down the academic papers crack but if you do and actually look at WHO gains power from trade and how they do so it’s difficult to think of these “economist” as any thing more than Druid priest that wear long robes and sacrifice people to trees to favor the money Gods.

  218. @Godfree Roberts

    Yeah it will take a few more years for China to learn better techniques at tracking foreign subs

    Oh and those were interesting links… The guy writing on USNI makes me scratch my head (like the writer “Smith” on here)… He acts as if China is some puny country that the US can just lay mines and there is nothing China can do or that China wouldn’t know. Did he not think China has no means of counter-measure…?? Scary!
    The link you provided regarding the maritime militia was very interesting. I knew it existed but never really studied it in detail. Very wise and cost effective strategy has – using them. Not just for war – but good for disaster relief and rescue. I do recall reading elsewhere in the past those militia’s have been “rewarded” for capturing spying devices in the waters near China.

    As to China and is anti sub agenda… I have read about their listening devices in the past couple of years. In recent times – anti China ‘Asia Times’ there is also a story from about a week ago that detailed China’s activities off of Australia. Apparently there is a Chinese ocean mapping ship that is mapping the route Australian subs use to go through the South China Sea. It also is apparently sitting near a “secretive” base that the US uses to send signals to submarines and surface ships. The piece surmises the Chinese ship is attempting to decipher those codes. Of course it portrays China as the bad guy – but what really do they expect China to do when they are openly told there are attempts to “contain” them..??

  219. ANZ says:
    @Sam J.

    I am no expert in Econ by any measure but understanding it is key to understanding how so much of the world works because of all the secondary effect that economic program should bring. Therefore I am coming at this with an open mind to learn.

    So the U.S. rise to power was aided by merchantilism, the Japanese have been engaging in it for decades and China is running the same game now as well. This strategy has made each of these nations increase their prosperity. So where is bad for the nation that practices it? Your article from 2004 said Japan had the second highest standard of living in the world via a strong state capitalism. Clearly it was good for the Japanese, yes? Bad for her trade partners perhaps, but good for Japan. The standard of living for Japanese workers rose, just as you point out the fact that US workers were likewise benefitted here in the past.

    I don’t understand where categorically saying merchantilism is bad comes from. What am I missing? Does it depend on which side of the deal you are on?

    Does this involve protectionism as well? Wouldn’t that lead to increasing autarky by building up domestic industry instead of importing goods. That would create more jobs at home so that half you’re country wouldn’t be flat broke.

    I did follow along quite well with the rest of your reply and concur from my limited formal knowledge base of Econ.

    Input appreciated.

    • Replies: @Sam J.
  220. Sam J. says:
    @ANZ

    “…I am no expert in Econ by any measure but understanding it is key to understanding how so much of the world works…”

    The problem is econ [study] is based on the study of mathematical models that have certain assumptions built in but what if others decide these assumptions are false and play by other rules?

    “…So the U.S. rise to power was aided by merchantilism, the Japanese have been engaging in it for decades and China is running the same game now as well. This strategy has made each of these nations increase their prosperity. So where is bad for the nation that practices it?…”

    It’s not IF no one retaliates against you.

    “…I don’t understand where categorically saying merchantilism is bad comes from. What am I missing? Does it depend on which side of the deal you are on?…”

    Yes it depends what side you are on and on how much people are beginning to retaliate. The idea that it’s bad “overall” is that if everyone does it it brings trade to a halt where everyone beggars their neighbor and trade plummets. The guy I referenced and other non Western economist believe in natural monopolies based on insider knowledge and concentration of capital. This is what the Asians are doing. They put together large firms with massive gov support then buy as much tech as they can and pour money into a business. With this they can build stupendous volume at a cheap price. As the volume rises they constantly work on cost cutting and advancement OVER THE LONG TERM. The long term and market share is the important point, to them, the Asians. Our time short term players in the west lose the business because they refuse to operate at low profits so they buy parts from their competitors. Well any reasonable person knows you can’t do well in business over the long term when you completely rely on your direct competitors for parts and equipment. Over time US has lost more and more to the Asians. There are whole sectors we have nothing. Nothing at all. How you going to beat something…with nothing???[If you don’t get anything at all from this I wrote get this. You can’t beat something with nothing].

    A normal economist will say EXACTLY this about this trend,”if they are willing to subsidize and make it cheaper for the consumer then it’s a good thing, we will just do something else”. The problem is that you won’t do something else over time you will just lose jobs and eventually you will be a deliverer of raw materials. That’s not good cause the big profits are in taking raw goods and making higher valued objects out of them.

    The economist say that you should only do that which is competitive. Sounds reasonable but it’s long term stupid because you can with the right organization and tech do things which you normally couldn’t do like Holland being a huge flower producer even though their weather sucks and they use greenhouses. Here’s another example. The Japanese decided to become ship builders. They did so and ended up building a hell of a lot of ships. What the econ don’t count is all the massive amounts of money paid to all these workers and all the machinery and tools made to support them. Actually the count it but they don’t count the effort needed to get all these things. It’s like this stuff just shows up on your doorstep to them for free and you have a “free” comparative advantage. No it takes work. All these support functions to support advanced manufacturing adds up big time in the total economy and the Asians know it. Our stupid econ, maybe, don’t have that line in their spreadsheet so…it doesn’t exist for them. They don’t know how to count it properly so they just call it foolish. No long term thinking at all. It’s just stupid mindless follow the buffoon leader stuff. Not to mention the big corps would make fun of and not give our economist awards and say nice things about them if they criticized the rape and pillage method of running companies in the US. In Japan you CAN NOT do this. No way. Westerners have bought large shares in Japanese campaniles and gone to board meetings and fussed and fumed to do things their way and they just laugh at them. They are in business to increase the power of ALL Japanese not just Jews and few of their buddies.

    Americans did the same thing in the past though not necessarily from any economist advice. Henry Ford is a good example. He made everything he could for his cars and pushed volume as fast as he could and wiped out the competition. Andrew Carnegie the same. He constantly invested his profits in ever increasing;y larger and more efficient equipment. Market or not but over time he WAS the market. Modern idiot businessmen would just fold at the first sign of lowering profits but…they miss the big pay off that comes from volume and control of the market from continuous improvement. Another Simple example you can see unfolding right now is Musk, Tesla and Space X. No econ in his right mind would say Musk should have done what he did. He was constantly on the brink of bankruptcy but in the launch market he is now kicking peoples ass. Tesla…I would have said he was doing equally well up until corona. That’s going to hurt him bad. One thing he is doing is CREATING market. He’s spending vast sums up front for battery and car factories, charge stations, if he can survive then he will have all this expertise and infrastructure that will be damn hard to beat. All the market leaders before Musk could have done the exact same thing. GM even had a electric car that people loved but instead of taking a few losses and continuous improvement they called all the cars in and crushed them. Idiots. Look at them now they went bankrupt. and are losing every day. Ford quit making cars because before they had got the Japanese to make them for them but now…they can’t make them at all.

    “…Does this involve protectionism as well?…”

    Yes, a big part. The US had this for most of our history and had very rapid growth. The golden rule you can not let everyone else subsidize their manufacturing, put tariffs and conditions on you and not crush them by doing the same immediately or you will lose out. Good or bad that’s reality.

    • Replies: @ANZ
  221. Smith says:
    @Showmethereal

    >Both of them could have their bases flattened by missiles from the Chinese mainland.
    Yeah, because missiles are a really good counter to missiles, not.

    In order to correctly bomb every missiles bases in Vietnam and Japan, China need to have the complete map of Japan and Vietnam figured out (including military secrets), and taken into account the accuracy of chink missiles as well as the air defense from their host countries. Meanwhile, Vietnam and Japan can continue to just destroy chink ships, which are always more costly than missiles.

    >China patrols the Diayou islands basically every week.
    Which means their ships are vulnerable to be attacked by Japan, same for the ships of China in the South East Asian sea.

    You are exactly describing the scenario where chink floating coffins get smacked.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  222. Jeremygg5 says:
    @Mefobills

    China recycled dollars into TBills rather than buying goods from main-street.

    China had wanted to buy all sorts of advanced machinery, equipment, semiconductors, weapons, materials from the US, but couldn’t because it was under US sanctions for almost her entire modern history, and still is.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
    , @Anon
    , @d dan
  223. @Jeremygg5

    Which is why it is stupid reading these comments that the US exported all their technology to China. It is plain dumb. People will just make up anything to assuage their ego when they start to lose.

  224. @Smith

    Just quit. Its obcious you China… That is your problem. But come to reality. You think China doesn’t know Vietnam positions..?.. Not sure why you even bring up Vietnam.

    And the US would be the only reason Japan would dare fire on a Chinese ship. Chinese missiles can hit Guam from mainland China. Again – your scenario is made of complete folly. This is not a video game nor is it the 1940’s. Anything that happens – big powers know pretty quickly. The idea that the US and Japan can just destroy all Chinese ships with missiles and their not be immediate retaliation is utter nonsense. The only variables are submarines. And if submarines start sinking Chinese ships you think missiles wont be on their way to all the bases around Japan and Guam…??? Not to mention all US and Japanese surface ships within that range???? China is not Syria nor Iraq. Get serious and stop dreaming folly.

    • Replies: @Smith
  225. Smith says:
    @Showmethereal

    What position exactly? If push comes to shove (approach or violation of EEZ), Vietnam, India and Japan will fire missiles into chink ships in their respective sea, any escalation from chinks will spark an Asian war where everyone, chinks included, will suffer.

    Chink arrogance rivals american, as seen by the chink propagandists in this very thread. But fortunately, their desire to be the military dominant power in Asia means a lot of floating coffins all over the Pacific.

    China isn’t Syria or Iraq, China actually have valuable but vulnerable targets on the sea, like the US.

  226. ANZ says:
    @Sam J.

    I completely understand that the U.S. has committed long term economic suicide by aiding and abbeting the growth of Chinese industry. Instead of making things domestically, we have outsourced production to low wage China so that corporations could make much better profit margins in the short term. This has stripped the engine of wealth production out of the U.S. so that the profits aren’t coming from new wealth generation but by eating away at the accumulated wealth the U.S. built up when it was a producer in decades past. This has been orchestrated by a hostile foreign elite with no love or bonds to America.

    Modern Econ is largely based on the premise of maximizing profit yes? Profit for who? The endgame of current Econ is wealth for a few and serfdom for the many. That’s what is currently playing out in America. But what about polical economy that’s more geared to building a healthy nation where there are jobs and opportunity for regular folks in a county? That’s the game the Japanese and Chinese are playing and that the U.S. used to play. Law should restrain a country from using their economy in a way which devours its own people.

    From my limited knowledge of these matters it seems that the U.S. should return to protectionism and the building up of domestic industry instead of transferring everything over to the Asians. This would be a GOOD thing, no? The U.S. has such a tremendous resource base of natural and human capital so why does almost everything at the store need to be made overseas while bleeding the country dry over the long term?

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  227. Jazman says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    I am following your work and I am impressed how you “destroy” non believers with excellent arguments . Keep up good work

  228. Anon[544] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jeremygg5

    I remember MAC G4 computer banned from exporting to China back in the day. Night vision goggles are still banned. One can buy them in the US but would get arrested if trying to bring them to China.

  229. d dan says:
    @Jeremygg5

    “China had wanted to buy all sorts of advanced machinery, equipment, semiconductors, weapons, materials from the US, but couldn’t because it was under US sanctions for almost her entire modern history, and still is.”

    Just one concrete example to demonstrate US stupidity and the blame game: In 2018, Huawei bought over $11 billions of US products. It also invested in US with R&D and support companies, employing hundreds of high paying jobs. Then Trump banned all US companies doing business with Huawei.

    Today, Huawei replaces those US parts with Japanese, Korean, European or Chinese parts. It also closes all its US subsidiaries. So, that is over $11 billions of lost sales a year for US, just for a single company.

    • Agree: Showmethereal
  230. @ANZ

    Americans always make these speeches until you ask them to pay higher prices. Nothing happens in a vacuum. Does anyone really think Americans want to pay more for anything? Will US companies accept lower profit margins??? Will the inflated stock prices which fund millions of US retirements through 401k’s be satisfied with lower profit margins?? Both things can be “fixed” – but would cause massive social upheavel. Do Americans have the stomach for that??? The grossly obscene cost of healthcare cant even get fixed yet. Thats not Asians fault.

    As to human capital – while the rest of the world was being destroyed – the US absorbed the best of human capital from around the globe. It was basically inevitable that the rest of the world would rejuvenate itself. “Time and chance happenz to all men”… The same is true of nations and empires. They all have their cycles. The US being so young has never experienced where its relative power is declining. From 1776 until the early 1900’s it was always ascending…. Then it began to dominate… No one stays on top forever. Every great power has to learn that eventually. That “best of the best” of human capital has more options now than to just migrate to the US.

    • Replies: @ANZ
    , @dfordoom
    , @Sam J.
  231. ANZ says:
    @Showmethereal

    All valid points you make. It is really a Gordion knot of corrupted economics that has to be undone. I hold out that some peoples have the ability to make sacrifices in the now if they know they are working towards a better future. Kind of like having to go through a drug withdrawal on easy money policies to get the U.S. back to good health.

    Can it be done? I see a lot of soft and weak people who would bitch out about even modest temporary reductions in their standard of living. It’s going to take some tough, manly leadership and ethics to steer us out of this quagmire. I look to 1930s Germany as a model which gives me hope that it can be done. Yes, conditions here are not the same for us now as they then and there. But nonetheless, the Germans went from destitute to powerhouse in less than a decade. Change can happen quickly if there is vision, commitment and able leaders at the helm.

  232. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Showmethereal

    Americans always make these speeches until you ask them to pay higher prices. Nothing happens in a vacuum. Does anyone really think Americans want to pay more for anything? Will US companies accept lower profit margins??? Will the inflated stock prices which fund millions of US retirements through 401k’s be satisfied with lower profit margins?? Both things can be “fixed” – but would cause massive social upheavel. Do Americans have the stomach for that???

    Yep. It’s the same in Australia. Our manufacturing industry has been destroyed and we’re now dependent on imports for absolutely everything. But most people don’t care because they get to pay lower prices. Even the working class, which suffered directly from the trashing of our manufacturing sector, doesn’t seem to care.

    People are greedy and stupid. That applies as much to the middle classes as to the working class. It applies as much to rural people as urban people. Ordinary people will not pay higher prices for the sake of the country, or for the sake of their fellow-countrymen. The middle class rich will not give up even a small part of their wealth for the sake of the country, or for the sake of their fellow-countrymen.

    In a democracy people will always vote for parties that pander to their greed and stupidity. It doesn’t matter whether you’re talking about Americans or Australians or anyone else. People are greedy and stupid.

    The only countries with a chance of survival are countries that have not been cursed with democracy. If democracy is imposed on China then China is doomed as well. Democracy is a terminal illness.

  233. Sam J. says:
    @Mefobills

    Thanks for listing these.

  234. Sam J. says:
    @Kal

    “…Chinese people basically fellate Jews and seek to emulate them…”

    They will also not allow the Jews to take over their countries like the west has. Jewish expansion of power has ended with them.

  235. Sam J. says:
    @Kal

    “…But yea, Jews are our internal problem and China is the external one. They have shown this by their own behavior repeatedly. I am not sure why you think they are friendly to whites…”

    Compared to the Jews who want to genocide us most everyone is friendly to Whites.

    Oh and by the way to the Jews reading here you are all a bunch of foolish idiots to destroy the West. No where else will you ever have the same power or will you be so accepted. By destroying us you destroy yourselves. Asians will never accept you. You tried in China before and this is the result

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaifeng_Jews

    The Chinese swallowed you up.

  236. antibeast says:
    @Mefobills

    Wall Street and finance capitalism has been running the West especially since post WW1, and WW2 was a consolidation of WW1 . China swept their communist era debt into a trash can, to then make themselves look good, to then get quasi MFN status.At that point in time Bill Clinton bent over and gave the wall street crowd what they wanted, which included screwing over the Maquiladoras, and labor in Mexico.

    You’re being disingenuous here with your historical amnesia. In the 80s, US MNCs went to Mexico and moved their factories to border townships called Maquiladoras to evade US environmental protection laws and labor standards. US automakers then lobbied for the passage of NAFTA in the 90s. But outsourcing started earlier in the 50s with the GATT which allocated textile and garment quotas to poor countries in the developing world as part of the US Cold War strategy of containing Soviet Communism. In East Asia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and Singapore became part of the US-led Capitalist bloc. That’s how electronics manufacturing moved to East Asia while garments and textiles went to Southeast Asia and Latin America, and auto manufacturing went to Mexico with special provisions under NAFTA.

    Capital in Wall Street combined with labor in China, to then transfer America’s patrimony. There is no arguing this, it happened.

    You’re throwing a Strawman’s argument here. China joined the WTO in 2001. That’s after five decades of outsourcing as practiced by US MNCs all over the developing world, from East Asia to Latin America, since the 50s! A better argument would be that East Asia’s industrial development came from America’s patrimony but how about Japan which was already an industrial power before WWII? In fact, it was Japanese competition in the auto and electronics industries that forced US MNCs to outsource their auto and electronics manufacturing to Mexico and East Asia respectively. But that process had nothing to do with your Strawman — China — because East Asians were already there by the time US MNCs arrived.

    • Agree: Showmethereal
    • Replies: @d dan
  237. d dan says:
    @antibeast

    “But that process had nothing to do with your Strawman — China — because East Asians were already there by the time US MNCs arrived.”

    Just to support your point, look at the 2017 foreign direct investment figures for China[1]. See how (un-)important is US investment to China?

    Hong Kong 72.1%
    Singapore 3.6%
    Virgin Islands 3.0%
    South Korea 2.8%
    Japan 2.4%
    USA 2.0%
    Cayman Islands 1.6%
    Netherlands 1.6%
    Taiwan 1.3%
    Germany 1.1%

    [1] https://santandertrade.com/en/portal/establish-overseas/china/foreign-investment

    • Replies: @antibeast
  238. Sam J. says:
    @Showmethereal

    “…Americans always make these speeches until you ask them to pay higher prices…”

    This is false because it supposes the average American has any input at all on these policies. As if the Jews, the FED system of perpetual debt and the monopolist oligarchical capitalist listen or care about Americans at all. No they don’t. Court ruling, as I explain below, have perverted the nature of “who” is actually allowed to be seen speaking in the government.

    “…As to human capital – while the rest of the world was being destroyed – the US absorbed the best of human capital from around the globe. It was basically inevitable that the rest of the world would rejuvenate itself. “Time and chance happenz to all men”… The same is true of nations and empires. They all have their cycles…”

    This is true but a good question is if this cycle can be broken by good management and understanding the past and these cycles? Just because something has happened before doesn’t mean it has to repeat. That there are great forces pushing that way there is no doubt but the outcome is not fixed in stone. ANZ comment shows this may be possible,”…I look to 1930s Germany as a model which gives me hope that it can be done. Yes, conditions here are not the same for us now as they then and there. But nonetheless, the Germans went from destitute to powerhouse in less than a decade. Change can happen quickly if there is vision, commitment and able leaders at the helm…”.

    One thing we should be cognizant about is that the present form of gov. we have today is a perverted system directly changed by the Supreme Court and can be changed by a better than 50% vote in Congress.

    The two biggest perversions of the system are the courts ruling that the State Senates could NOT have regional representation like the the whole of the US has in it’s Senate and that there could be no test for ability to vote. They just made this shit up to push for change, which they got. It promotes mob rule and in no way is how the founders set up the country to run. One of the changes is States with large cities take over the whole State leading to big time friction. It also means whole States change their voting values to only reflect the views of large cities while completely ignoring the rural areas. So upper State New York and much of California has zero representation. They are totally rolled over by the cities. Change these and you would see vast changes in our government.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  239. antibeast says:
    @d dan

    Steve Jobs hired Tim Cook from the PC industry in 1998 when Apple was already on its death throes after losing 99% of the market share to PCs manufactured in East Asia. Tim Cook knew about the offshore electronics manufacturing industry centred in East Asia and he signed the contract outsourcing the manufacturing of Apple’s Macbooks, iPhones, iPads, etc. to Foxconn which is a Taiwanese CEM (Contract Equipment Manufacturer) in China. There was no need for “IP Theft” nor “Forced Transfer of Technology” in PC manufacturing which was a horizontally integrated industry with Microsoft and Intel providing the PC technology (OS software and the chipsets) while Taiwanese CEMs manufactured the PCs under contract for U.S. brands such as HP, IBM, Compaq, etc. The same is true today with Android smartphones/tablets with Google and Qualcomm providing the OS software and chipsets respectively to East Asian OEMs such as Samsung, ZTE, Xiaomi, LG, HTC, etc.

    By the way, Steve Jobs was adamant about manufacturing Apple’s computers in the USA but he eventually gave up and hired Tim Cook to oversee manufacturing in East Asia. That’s how Tim Cook turned around Apple’s fortunes which saw its stock price increasing from under $2 to more than $300, from a market value of less than $10B to more than $1.3T by Jan. 2020. That’s 150X return for Apple which does not own a single factory in East Asia!

    And US politicians complain that China is “stealing” US factory jobs?

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  240. @Godfree Roberts

    Oh… I forgot to put the Asia Times link in the first reply….. Aside from Pepe Escobar and a couple of other writers – they are mostly anti China. I notice – like a few others – they have removed their comment sections. it seems they don’t like when too many people challenge their narrative. In any event – it is an informative piece about China starting to monitor US (and Australia) sub movies.

    https://asiatimes.com/2020/03/spy-vs-spy-as-china-eyes-us-oz-sea-defense-moves/

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  241. @Sam J.

    You seem to have an unyealthy obsession with Jews and blame them for everything. As to the Founding Fathers… Yes things did change…. But they had to. Time changes things. Laws can be changed. The Constitution is not the bible.
    For instance you are bringing upmparts of NY and California. Well look around the world. Rural populations continue to urbanize. For the first time in history urban areas have larger populations around the globe. Even in the US there are sprawling suburban areas that count as urbanized. The rest ofmthe world is more dense. What is there going to he that would change this pattern of urbanization aside from cataclysm?

    You are absolutely correct that sound management can change paradigms…. But seriously – how do you expect that to happen under the current political system. I am not being facetious – that is a serious question. All any politician has to do is “connect with the people” and they can win. That doesnt ensurenthe best managers though.

    • Replies: @Sam J.
    , @Sam J.
  242. @antibeast

    All correct as relates to what happened with manufacturing. As to OS and chipsets – yeah and the East Asians prior to China attemtpted to break out of those constraints and develop their own but were smacked down. That is why China is seen as such a “threat”. It has the talent of the others – but is so much bigger.
    Samsung should have been able to break Apple and Google’s strangelhold on mobile phone OS for example…. But Samsung got smothered. Samsung also started to push its own higher end chips – but quietly stepped back. I dont for one minute think it was for lack of ability but for “fear”. People can say I am wrong – but based on other cases we have seen – if South Korea was a huge country – incubating it in their home country first would have allowed their system to flourish and then move out. Which is what we are seeing (albeit – forced) is happening with Huawei and eventually other Chinese companies. Again the difference being they have the heft to do it.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  243. @showmethereal

    Yep. Once comments start trending against the Official Story, they’re closed.

    If it happens repeatedly, comments are eliminated.

    After seeing my comments marked as spam and being upset, I prefer to view it as an expression of panic: they’re losing control of the narrative–and that’s all they’ve got left.

  244. Sam J. says:
    @Showmethereal

    “…You seem to have an unyealthy obsession with Jews and blame them for everything…”

    That’s a damn lie I only blame them for getting us into WWI and WWII, the Federal Reserve, killing Presidents Lincoln and Kennedy. Lies about the Holahoax. The destruction of Russia, Germany, Spain, England, Egypt US, all of Eastern Europe and many other countries. The opium trade into China. Bringing slaves to America. Bringing in all the people after the 1965 change in immigration laws and all illegal immigration. The murder of many Citizens by these legal and illegal immigrants. The corruption and abuse of the asylum system to flood the country with refugees. Destruction of the studies of anthropology, psychiatry and social sciences. Destruction of the school system through uncivil rights for Blacks. Mass murder of Whites by Blacks due to uncivil rights laws and dumbing down of the school system. Destruction of all our major cities. Destruction of competence of government employees by uncivil rights laws banning effective testing. Destruction of the culture by mass media, just a few of which are print, radio, TV, movies and music. Widespread tensions between Men and Women due to their pushing of a Man hating version of Feminism and attacking Women. Psychological warfare by portraying White Men as evil, corrupt, deranged and serial killers. Police committing widespread murder due to Jews training the police. Corruption of the government by bribery and when that doesn’t work blackmail. Murder of people to cover up corruption. Corruption of many of the nations coroners to the extent that someone can be shot to death with a nail gun, twice, and have it ruled a suicide. People can supposedly hang themselves with red scarves off of door knobs and still have it ruled a suicide. Epstein can be declared a suicide. Destruction of truth through distortion of the education system and mass media. The lowering of morals through pornography and evil behavior in print, film and TV. Sexual degeneracy and illegal forcing of Women and Men into trading sex for work. Pedophile attacks on girls and boys in Hollywood, and everywhere else they can. The pushing of communism and socialism. The destruction of the livelihood and pensions of many, many people by taking over their companies, stealing their pension money and offshoring their work with fiat money they control. The movement of manufacturing to China. Widespread theft of military secrets and subsequent selling of those to the USSR , China and who knows who else. The banking collapse and subsequent bailout. Running a fraudulent FED currency scheme. Securities fraud in the bank bail outs and Mortgage backed Bond business. Blowing up our buildings and killing our people on 9-11 and the subsequent wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria. Multiple false flags where Americans have been murdered. The war in Ukraine. ISIS. The murder of Lebanese and Palestinians. Organ smuggling. Drug smuggling. Falsifying data to get people hooked on pharmaceutical drugs. Corruption and contamination of the vaccine system and it’s products to unsafe levels. Lots and lots of business and bank fraud. The enslavement for sex trafficking of children especially used to blackmail politicians, clergy, police, judges and others of influence. The Smiley faced murders,(don’t have any evidence for this one but it’s the Jews). There’s more but that’s a few of the major ones.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  245. Sam J. says:
    @Showmethereal

    “…As to the Founding Fathers… Yes things did change…. But they had to. Time changes things. Laws can be changed. The Constitution is not the bible…”

    Some of this you said is a distortion of the truth and some an outright lie. Time didn’t change anything. The Supreme court did. We have a perfectly good system to change the Constitution so it’s doesn’t NEED to be a bible and no one has insinuated that it is. They didn’t legally change anything they unilaterally completely changed the Representative make up of the governments of all the States in the USA with no legal authority at all. The Constitution is very short and no where does it mention controlling the States Representative choices. They should have been impeached.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  246. @Sam J.

    Oh – you are one of those… never mind. God alone can help you.

  247. @Sam J.

    In case you didn’t realize – the Constitution was written so that it COULD be amended. The Congress was set up so that it COULD change laws. The “founding fathers” were not prophets so did not know how things would change. But they did set up a system which allowed future generations could make changes as they saw fit… That is regardless of whether it is destructive or not.

  248. antibeast says:
    @Showmethereal

    As to OS and chipsets – yeah and the East Asians prior to China attempted to break out of those constraints and develop their own but were smacked down. That is why China is seen as such a “threat”. It has the talent of the others – but is so much bigger.

    Nothing to do with politics but with the economics of technology for the PC and smartphone industries.

    Samsung should have been able to break Apple and Google’s strangehold on mobile phone OS for example…. But Samsung got smothered. Samsung also started to push its own higher end chips – but quietly stepped back. I dont for one minute think it was for lack of ability but for “fear”.

    There were two competing business models in the PC and smartphone industries: vertically-integrated companies such as Apple or horizontally-integrated PC OEMs such as HP. Apple almost went out of business after Steve Jobs insisted on manufacturing Apple’s products in-house in the USA while the Japanese failed to make any headway in the PC industry after their TRON project ended in failure. The South Koreans and later the Chinese were willing to manufacture products based on US technology which was available from Microsoft and Intel (for PCs) as well as from Qualcomm and Google (for smartphones). My point in replying to an earlier poster was that there was no need for Chinese OEMs to “steal, copy or forcibly transfer” US technology because they could just buy them from US suppliers and then manufacture products based on US technology. Their business models allowed them to plug into the horizontally-integrated industry structure of the PC and smartphone industries while Apple and the Japanese OEMs tried to do everything themselves as part of their vertically-integrated company or industry.

  249. Corrupt says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    The US is not a signatory of UNCLOS.

  250. @Mefobills

    These accurate summary statements you make are each important, but the last far foremost so because of it’s uniform truth across “our” culture and the devastating goal you accurately state. Thus my use of bold and addition of the triple parentheses you so often effectively use:

    Everything China is doing, we have already done in the past. People that get upset about China need to look backward to America’s past, to then find the solutions.

    I have posted here at Unz about the “American System of Economy,” which China now operates. America and the “white man” has amnesia – as (((the parasite class))) issues its hypnosis and wipes out history (and creates genocide).

  251. Kal says:
    @Chinaman

    You’re mistaking I have some attachment to America that sees white americans as enemies that need pockets of somalis in their communities because they are too white. Yea, I really like America. I dislike the slander against whites.

    My point about obsession with white women was meant to be much more general not specifically American women.

    Also, regarding Chinese saving face and lying, my point regarding that was Chinese simply behave in a way that westerners will find appealing to screw them over.
    口蜜腹剣 I was referring to that mentality that even Chinese people themselves complain about.

    I think they are many upsides to Chinese self control of their emotions. Their ability to hide their emotions is actually something I admire, but I am pointing it out for the sake of other people who far to quickly take them at face value.

  252. Kal says:
    @Showmethereal

    Okay, let’s follow the moral logic of that movie and yours.
    If per say America is stolen, why is that a justification for Chinese people to come in or any other nonwhite group? instead of say giving it “back” to the Amerindians? Because the entire argument is a sham. It is not about undoing a wrong just about villainizing and delegimitizing whites claims to spaces. Those who want to take it from whites are actually worse because you have done nothing with the land and instead want to take what is neither what you built and neither a claim of land ownership.

    The reality whites created America when the Amerindians were a stone age, nomadic people who were busy slaughtering and enslaving each other. The idea that the modern day America that was built is somehow stolen from people who could never do it themselves is absurd.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  253. @Kal

    Let’s look at how nonsensical your comment is… Neither Ip Man nor Bruce Lee stayed in the United States…. So your blabbering about what???

    As to your last comment.. That’s the problem with white supremacists like yourself. Not only is it false to say Natives in the “America’s” were in the Stone Age…. But even if they were – it doesn’t justify sailing across seas to displays another race because they aren’t white… But people like you will never get it.

  254. @ANZ

    It’s going to take some tough, manly leadership and ethics to steer us out of this quagmire.

    That’s the necessary ingredient for the survival of the descendants of Christendom, but the genociders know it as their Talmud tells them the best of the goyim must be killed (or otherwise disabled).

    • Replies: @ANZ
  255. ANZ says:
    @Farrakhan.DDuke.AliceWalker.AllAgree

    Exactly why incompetent sellout morons are elevated to rule over us.

    Zionism installs Kakistocracies in their client states. Both parties are under thumb.

    We need to go 1933.

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