The Unz Review • An Alternative Media Selection$
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 John V. Walsh Archive
Cover-Up of U.S. Nuclear Sub Collision in South China Sea.
A Wake-up Call for East Asia – and the World
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • B
Show CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

“When elephants fight, it is the grass that gets trampled.”

So warned Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte in his address to the UN General Assembly on September 22, 2020. He was referring to the consequences for East Asia of a conflict between the US and China.

Fast forward to October 2, 2021, about one year later, and the first patch of grass has been stomped on by the U.S. elephant, trudging stealthily about, far from home in the South China Sea. On that day the nuclear-powered attack submarine, the USS Connecticut, suffered serious damage in an undersea incident which the U.S. Navy ascribed to a collision with an undersea object.

After sustaining damage, the submarine apparently surfaced close to the Paracel Islands which lie only 150 nautical miles from China’s Yulin submarine base in Hainan Province. The Connecticut is one of only three Seawolf class of submarines, which are assumed to be on spying missions. But they can be equipped with Intermediate Range (1250-2500 km) Tomahawk cruise missiles which can be armed with nuclear warheads. It is claimed that they are not so equipped at present because the Navy’s “policy decisions” have “phased out” their nuclear role, according to the hawkish Center For Strategic and International Studies.

When a US nuclear submarine with such capabilities has a collision capable of killing U.S. sailors and spilling radioactive materials in the South China Sea, it should be front page news on every outlet in the U.S. This has not been the case – far from it. For example, to this day (October 30), nearly a month after the collision, the New York Times, the closest approximation to a mouthpiece for the American foreign policy elite, has carried no major story on the incident and in fact no story at all so far as I and several daily readers can find. This news is apparently not fit to print in the Times. (A notable exception to this conformity and one worth consulting has been Craig Hooper of Forbes.)

A blackout of this kind will come as no surprise to those who have covered the plight of Julian Assange or the US invasion of Syria or the barely hidden hand of the United States in various regime change operations, to cite a few examples

The U.S. media has followed the narrative of the U.S. Navy which waited until October 7 to acknowledge the incident, with the following extraordinarily curt press release (I have edited it with strike-outs and italicized substitutions to make its meaning clear.):

The Seawolf-class fast-attack submarine USS Connecticut (SSN 22) struck an object while submerged on the afternoon of Oct. 2, while operating in international waters in the Indo-Pacific region in the South China Sea near or inside Chinese territorial waters. The safety of the crew remains the Navy’s top priority The crew is being held incommunicado for an indefinite period. There are no life threatening injuries. This allows the extent of injuries to the crew to be kept secret.

The submarine remains in a safe and stable condition hidden from public view to conceal the damage and its cause. USS Connecticut’s nuclear propulsion plant and spaces were not affected and remain fully operational are in a condition that is being hidden from the public until cosmetic repairs can be done to conceal the damage. The extent of damage to the remainder of the submarine is being assessed is also being concealed. The U.S. Navy has not requested assistance will not allow an independent inspection or investigation. The incident will be investigated cover-up will continue.

Tan Kefei, spokesperson for China’s Ministry of National Defense although not so terse, had much the same to say as my edited version above, as reported in China’s Global Times:

“It took the US Navy five days after the accident took place to make a short and unclear statement. Such an irresponsible approach, cover-up (and) lack of transparency .. can easily lead to misunderstandings and misjudgments. China and the neighboring countries in the South China Sea have to question the truth of the incident and the intentions behind it.

But Tan went further and echoed the sentiment of President Duterte;

“This incident also shows that the recent establishment of a trilateral security partnership between the US, UK and Australia (AUKUS) to carry out nuclear submarine cooperation has brought a huge risk of nuclear proliferation, seriously violated the spirit of the Non-Proliferation Treaty, undermined the construction of a nuclear-free zone in Southeast Asia, and brought severe challenges to regional peace and security.

“We believe that the actions of the US will affect the safety of navigation in the South China Sea, arouse serious concerns and unrest among the countries in the region, and pose a serious threat and a major risk to regional peace and stability.”

The crash of the USS Connecticut goes beyond the potential for harmful radioactive leakage into the South China Sea, with potential damage to the surrounding nations including the fishing grounds of importance to the economy. If the US continues to ramp up confrontation far from its home in the South China Sea, then a zone of conflict could spread to include all of East Asia. Will this in any way benefit the region? Does the region want to be turned into the same wreckage that the Middle East and North Africa are now after decades of US crusading for “democracy and liberty” there via bombs, sanctions and regime change operations? That would be a tragic turn for the world’s most economically dynamic region. Do the people of the region not realize this? If not, the USS Connecticut should be a wake-up call.

But the people of the US should also think carefully about what is happening. Perhaps the foreign policy elite of the US think it can revisit the U.S. strategy in WWII with devastation visited upon Eurasia leaving the US as the only industrial power standing above the wreckage. Such are the benefits of an island nation. But in the age of intercontinental weapons, could the US homeland expect to escape unscathed from such a conflict as it did in WWII? The knot is being tied, as Khrushchev wrote to Kennedy at the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis, and if it is tied too tightly, then no one will be able to untie it. The US is tying the knot far from its home this time half way around the world. It should not tie that knot too tight.

 
The China/America Series
Hide 599 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. Notsofast says:

    thanks for the translation from pentagonese to english. it makes this mysterious incident a little clearer. the real question is what did it hit or what hit it?

  2. Anon[615] • Disclaimer says:

    I heard it hit an undersea cliff.

  3. Anon[615] • Disclaimer says:

    Please forgive me if my words betray my frustration. That is because I have been saying the same thing for years and it seems to me that almost no-one has “connected the dots.”
    As many of us know, the nuclear armed nations of the world agreed decades ago that no one nation would initiate a nuclear first strike against another nation, because they realized that the consequence of such an action would be the end of human life on earth. That realization cooled the nuclear arms race down to everyone’s relief.
    Then in the first week of April, 2014, the President of the United States, Barrack Obama, announced publicly that the nuclear weapons strategy of the US has changed: the US is now willing to make a first strike on China with nuclear weapons.
    Needless to say that public statement freaked out 1 – 2 billion Chinese people around the globe. Understandably, the President of the Republic of China, Xi Jinping, announced publicly that he ordered China’s nuclear armed submarine fleet to go immediately to the US west coast. He also reassured the Chinese people that Chinese intercontinental ballistic missiles could travel over the North Pole and destroy major cities and other targets in the eastern US.
    One or two days later a Chinese envoy arrived at the Kremlin in the Federation of Russia with an envelope for Vladimir Putin, President of the Federation of Russia. The contents of the envelope initiated Article 9 of the Treaty of Good-Neighborliness and Friendly Cooperation Between the People’s Republic of China and the Russian Federation. Article 9 states: “When a situation arises in which one of the contracting parties deems that peace is being threatened and undermined or its security interests are involved or when it is confronted with the threat of aggression, the contracting parties shall immediately hold contacts and consultations in order to eliminate such threats.”
    Let us stop for a moment and recap the events. The President of the US declared publicly that the US was willing to conduct a nuclear first strike on China. The Chinese people freaked out. The president of China took defensive measures including asking Russia for help with this unforeseen mess. (Sorry, I’m going to have to make this post into two parts.)

  4. Anon[615] • Disclaimer says:

    The Russians responded, as they must and feel obligated to do after they make an agreement with China. After all, the Russians are “agreement capable.”
    The Russian move was truly brilliant. Enter the USS Donald Cook incident. (DC for short) The videos of the DC incident were so widespread, and so many people made copies of the video that “they” could not possibly scrub the video off the Internet. However, they are trying to change the date of the incident.
    Anyway, a day or two after the Chinese envoy arrived at the Kremlin and invoked Article 9 of the aforementioned Treaty, the Russians made a move.
    The USS Donald Cook is the most advanced Aegis class missile destroyers in the US navy. The DC was in the Black Sea at this time and the Russians make their move. Two Russian fighter jets approached the DC; one with advanced electronic warfare hardware, and one as an escort. The DC electronics, computers, radar, and all electronics crashed, leaving the DC “dead in the water.” Then the Russian jet escort made twelve mock attack runs on the DC. And you probably already know about the Russian helicopter crew videotaping the commotion onboard the DC.
    That is not my point. My point is the Chinese invoked Article 9 of the “Treaty” and the Russian response was twofold. Firstly, the Russians showed the Chinese that the Russians will honour their promises, and secondly, the Russians showed the US that Russians are not to be underestimated.

    • Agree: emersonreturn
    • Thanks: Notsofast, InnerCynic
    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    , @utu
    , @dina
    , @DrCiber
  5. xyzxy says:

    But the people of the US should also think carefully…

    Seriously? What could that even mean in the context of today’s general lunacy? And in any event, since when do ‘the people’ make any important policy decisions?

    For most whites, as long as there’s television and plenty of beer on the weekends, and as long as pizza can still be delivered, it’s all going to be good. Blacks? As long as they continue to receive welfare, or are able to shoplift what AFDC won’t cover, they’ll be happy.

    So don’t ask Americans to ‘think carefully’– at least if you want to be taken seriously by serious people.

    On the other hand, if the supply chain completely breaks down , and if the neocons keep poking the Bear and the Dragon, and then gets its you know what handed to it… well, then things might change pretty rapidly. But ‘thinking carefully’ wont be involved in any of that.

    As far as the sub? I’m sure that commander C. Mahmood Aljilani had everything under control. Although in hindsight the Navy probably wished it had had had a lesbian of color in charge.

    BTW, any idea what they ran in to?

  6. @xyzxy

    They most likely hit a rock, and that’s why a cover-up was initiated.

    The seawolf was damaged by Collision, not explosion. And it is very easy to hit rocks if your active radar is turned off which they will be in this case

    The same thing with the cheonan 10 years ago, they hit a underwater mine and then blamed it as a nk attack, and claimed that a nk torpedo was fired

    The underwater mine was a us rising mine that was leftover from previous exercises

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  7. TG says:

    “…leaving the US as the only industrial power standing above the wreckage.”

    ROTFL. The industrial base of the United States is in China, if Asia does fall apart the lights will go out in the US as well.

    Perhaps the elites could shift their factories to places like Mexico and Brazil, but that would take at least a generation. Alternatively, with the border of the United States basically open to unchecked third-world immigration, perhaps before too long there will be so many impoverished workers here that the rich will allow the US to-reindustrialize, but again, that would take a long time.

    Or maybe the elites don’t care. Being feudal lords over a vast and impoverished nation would likely suit them very well.

    • Agree: Old and Grumpy
    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  8. Hitting some underwater object isn’t believable. These subs have all manner of electronic gear that could detect whatever it is in their path.

    I’d say the most likely thing was that the Chinese released one of their weapons to just damage the sub via kinetic momentum as a warning to the asshats aboard to stay out of their bathtub.

    If I were the Chinese, I’d have smart torpedoes (for lack of a better term) chained to the ocean floor all over the area. At the appropriate signal, a single torpedo is sent on its mission from deep below at a high rate of speed to intercept the target. Not arming the explosives results in just a transfer of energy that damages but does not destroy the target; this time.

  9. Most likely is that it was tapping undersea communications cables, which requires operating along the ocean floor. It slammed into something.
    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/mystery-uss-jimmy-carter-and-mission-7-179811

    • Thanks: Miro23
  10. Could the Chinese have installed indicator nets in their home waters? These are metal anti-submarine nets. The damage to the sub might show this, which is why it has remained secret.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indicator_net

  11. Good point you made about the lack of media coverage in the US MSM… Goes to show Operation Mockingbird is still very much in effect.

  12. @Hbd investor

    Supposedly the sonar was indeed turned off – because they were trying to sneak in…. But that didn’t go too well… No telling what it really hit – we can only speculate. But we know for sure once it hit the object it certainly got tracked and catalogued on it’s way back to Guam (which we wouldn’t know if it was being tracked at the time of the accident anyway).

  13. @Notsofast

    A guess:
    China rammed it with one of their autonomous undersea drones (submersibles). Why? To let Uncle Sham know that its invisible subs aren’t so invisible after all.
    Since the US sub was on a secret mission, being in a place where it had no right to be, a move like this sends the message without the explosion. It gives the Chinese deniability (they have continued to ask the US to describe the details of the incident, as if China knows that the US can’t without suffering loss of reputation for strength and moral high ground). These questions from the Chinese are likely perceived by the US leadership as taunts.

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Replies: @A123
  14. Realist says:
    @RoatanBill

    If I were the Chinese, I’d have smart torpedoes (for lack of a better term) chained to the ocean floor all over the area. At the appropriate signal, a single torpedo is sent on its mission from deep below at a high rate of speed to intercept the target. Not arming the explosives results in just a transfer of energy that damages but does not destroy the target; this time.

    Excellent idea…I hope the Chinese are on it.

  15. @RoatanBill

    Hitting some underwater object isn’t believable. These subs have all manner of electronic gear that could detect whatever it is in their path.

    It’s happened before with a Los Angeles class attack sub, one death, 90+ injured, almost lost the boat.

    The problem with your thesis is embedded in that old novel title, Run Silent, Run Deep. If it uses all those “manners of electronic gear” to detect what’s in its path, specifically active sonar, it also advertises its position, which in normal situations is considered bad form….

    The big problem I see with this article that I only skimmed is that this claimed “coverup” fails the first rule of coverups, not saying anything to begin with. One wonders if people like the author would be satisfied with anything less than completely laying up all the US Navy’s ships.

  16. @That Would Be Telling

    When not on a war footing, hiding from the “enemy”, what is wrong with advertising your position in international waters by using the equipment on board to protect the boat and crew? If you’re going to practice being an idiot, why not do it where it is guaranteed to be safe, like around the Hawaiian islands that have been scoped out to the millimetre?

    Now I can understand some dumb ass captain playing a cat and mouse game in his head and turning off all that expensive stuff you and I paid for so he can pretend he’s under attack or some other bullshit reason the military is famous for. I can understand it because all these military types are not playing with a full deck. These are people in their own little world of make believe that want their most horrible thoughts to actually become reality so they can become their version of Rambo.

    One wonders if people like the author would be satisfied with anything less than completely laying up all the US Navy’s ships.

    All surface ships, in any navy, are floating coffins, yet to be realized. Military surface ships should have been sent to Bangladesh to be scrapped for metals decades ago once surface skimming missiles were invented. The low IQ morons that enlist in the US navy are betting on their being able to loaf for 20 years and then retire on a fat gov’t pension with full medical benefits without ever being in harms way. Trouble is that in the first few minutes of any actual conflict, ALL the US surface ships in a given area are sunk by very modern missiles, swarms of relatively inexpensive missiles, and there go thousands of moronic leaches on the tax paying public. No loss really in personnel and equipment.

  17. A123 says: • Website
    @TimeTraveller

    A guess:
    China rammed it with one of their autonomous undersea drones (submersibles).

    A more plausible explanation is that the U.S. submarine accidentally ran over an unmanned PLA vehicle. With injuries and a forced return the U.S. Navy had to say something about the unscheduled port call. With no injuries, there is no compelling reason for the PLA to admit anything.

    The quickness of the CCP/PLA response is eyebrow raising, if they launched their PR machine from a standstill. However, it is quite consistent with advance knowledge. For example, a very expensive, unmanned vehicle has gone missing.
    ___

    The term “cover-up” is rather misleading. Neither the PLA, nor the U.S. military, is obligated to say anything about loss or damage to their forces. The strategically correct behaviour is, encouraging the opposition to give up information while giving as little as possible in return.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Hbd investor
  18. @RoatanBill

    When not on a war footing, hiding from the “enemy”, what is wrong with advertising your position in international waters by using the equipment on board to protect the boat and crew?

    Because when it’s for real, you will preform as you practiced. If crews aren’t extremely well practiced in silent running, they’re going to fail it if it comes to war.

    You’re … completely incapable of thinking about this topic. Can you see absolutely no problems with constantly advertising your location to your potential future enemies? How much they could learn about your habits, normal procedures, etc.?

    Sorry, but until you spend at least a year reading up on military things you’re not worth listening to on the topic, and since you don’t realize your incapacity in this vital domain, what else are you talking about with absolutely no clue? Sorry, but you’re effectively a troll, and absolutely once when you say “all these military types are not playing with a full deck,” like what you presume from your complete ignorance of many navies’ answers to surface skimming missiles etc.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
    , @Anonymous
    , @anon
  19. @Realist

    A very old idea, the US version is the CAPTOR mine, entered service in 1979. But maintaining wired connections to such mines is a very iffy proposition in the long term. Would also be embarrassing if you accidentally sunk one of the huge crude oil or bulk food carriers coming to you through any one of a number of things going wrong prior to this inane idea of trying to send a message. See also my comment about silent running, the very last thing on earth you’d want to do is to reveal prior to war that you’d learned how to detect and follow our attack subs.

    Another cunning concept from RoatanBill, but we can’t expect the PLAN to be this ignorant of the very basics. Going further, if you can do that for our SSBNs (iffy, their reactors provide enough power for normal operations by convection, no pumps running) you can conceive of a successful first strike on the US.

  20. @That Would Be Telling

    You and I have crossed swords before.

    I can understand practicing, but practicing where you don’t put your boat and crew in danger makes more sense, as in the Hawaiian island as I stated. Practicing where you can run into something is plain stupid, but then that’s what the militaries of the world attract, the amoral and stupid.

    I have no problem thinking about this topic. You, on the other hand have no actual response to my statements except to call me a troll. The fact that you once again fall back on name calling and can’t properly support your position with logic and reason says a lot about your character and that you’re a shallow thinker and quite hysterical.

    • Replies: @Notsofast
    , @Badger Down
  21. @A123

    Nope that is completely implausible, passive sonar let’s you detect moving objects

    Active sonar let’s you detect still objects but it gives away your location, so for a still object like a ocean rock you won’t be able to see it

    So any sort of vehicle moving close enough to physically ram you would be detected

    This is basic physics and how submarines work

    They can detect the movement of nearby objects that’s how they can detect and attack moving ships and other subs

    If you don’t understand the science of it, passive sonar is basically using your ears to listen, while active sonar is using echo location like Bats do.

    So the most rational explanation is that the seawolf hit a still object, and that object needed to be big and heavy enough to cause damage so the most rational explanation is still underwater rocks

    • Replies: @TimeTraveller
    , @A123
  22. @RoatanBill

    Unlikely because of basic physics

    Torpedos move very slow because they are underwater

    Likewise a AR15 has 1500m range on land

    But just shooting in the water the effective range falls to like 20m

    Now if you dove deep, your effective range will drop even more

    Likewise the same for things like Torpedos and subs they move slower the higher the pressure and the deeper the water

    But the formula for kinetic energy

    A torpedo moves at like 50 mph, and it weighs around as much as a car does

    The seawolf can dive 3000 feet, a car hitting it at 50 mph is not going to do any sort of damage

    Old school torpedos used to ram and explode, and if they failed to explode they would leave a dent. But it is very doubtful that a unarmed torpedo will be able to greatly damage a sub

    https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a9004ec1fc22c68cef9aa58544c42058

  23. @Anon

    Donald Cook was no secret. Crew, tech reps, yard apes, everyone freaked out on that one. Cook wasn’t merely jammed, they experienced an actual EMP event. Much aboard the ship was fried. They navigated their way out via compasses. Real clusterfuck. What’s the suspense with this?

    • Replies: @Anon
  24. Resartus says:
    @RoatanBill

    Military surface ships should have been sent to Bangladesh to be scrapped for metals decades ago once surface skimming missiles were invented.

    Pretty much what lots of people have said about Tanks since the ATGM (Anti-Tank Guided Missile) was introduced to militaries around the world…..

  25. @Hbd investor

    You may want to read up on Russia’s Poseidon nuclear-powered underwater drone at 65 feet long, 6.5 feet wide and weighing in at around 100 tons.

    These things aren’t your grandfather’s torpedoes.

    An article I read said it would produce a cushion of gas surrounding the “torpedo” that would allow it to reduce friction and travel at some ridiculous speeds underwater. With a nuclear reactor powering the device, converting sea water to its constituent gases is a possibility. That reactor also means its range is relatively unrestricted.

  26. Notsofast says:
    @RoatanBill

    well known pfizer shill/bot “that would be trolling” has reared his ugly head once again. it’s amazing how many subjects his self declared expertise covers. now he will lecture us on nuclear submarines in his feeble attempt to drag the thread into the weeds. old #2 here will do his best to divert attention away from any pertinent discussion on a subject of relevance. in his earliest comments he suggested that if china was proven to be the source of covid that we should nuke them in response and that the evil vlad was trying to poison people with the sputnik vaccine. how do you do my fellow unzers?

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  27. @Hbd investor

    it is very doubtful that a unarmed torpedo will be able to greatly damage a sub

    That’s another problem with this terminally stupid idea. The targeted sub would most certainly hear the torpedo heading for it, and if it hit but didn’t explode, maybe removed and messed up some of its anechoic tiles, what would the sub commander think? That this was a stupid stunt by the PLAN, or they’re firing war shots at him and probably his comrades but this one was a dud. It would also be terminally stupid to make full fledged expensive homing torpedoes but not load them with a warhead.

    Wars can start when commanders make reasonable inferences from such actions, although I wouldn’t be surprised if attack and SSGN sub commanders are tied down by peacetime rules until they heard otherwise from their commanders. At the least, after some wild evasive maneuvering, such a sub commander would probably get his sub as quiet as possible and look (listen) for signs a real war has started while phoning home one way or another.

  28. @That Would Be Telling

    Anything is possible in the US Navy when a colored chick with a dick is on the bridge.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  29. Notsofast says:
    @Hbd investor

    a torpedo moves at like 50 mph….. maybe a ww2 torpedo, a country that can successfully launch a hypersonic missile may have made advances since then. just for the sake of argument, say some dastardly foreign power had sold the hull design of your uber secret nuclear submarine to a rival country, they may know just where to hit the sweet spot and cause the most damage sending a clear message that the next one will be armed.

    • Replies: @hbd investor
  30. @Notsofast

    I really do wish people wouldn’t use an ad hominem to support their position as it doesn’t and can’t. All it does is make the person slinging shit look unintelligent since they couldn’t counter with logic and reason. We all have opinions and some of us try to back those opinions with a thought out explanation. Others just want to jump up and down and call people names which just doesn’t move the discussion forward at all.

    In That Would Be Telling’s case, I was actually taken aback by the hysterical nature of the post. My instant reaction was to suggest a dose of Midol. Up until that point I thought the poster was male, but now I’m not so sure.

    BTW – I readily admit to not having a politically correct bone in my body. Stereotypes are stereotypes for a valid reason.

    • Replies: @Notsofast
  31. @Jim Bob Lassiter

    Anything is possible in the US Navy when a colored chick with a dick is on the bridge.

    True enough, which is one reason I watch our sub force. It’s like carrier landings, there’s strict limits to how much you fake it before terminally bad things happen. If we just outright start losing subs then we’ll know there’s no hope for the US Navy. Whereas it’s not exactly the end of the world that the Gerald Ford class super-carriers, or at least the first two of them last time I checked, will never be able to do their job due to a defective by design catapult system that it’s said can’t be fixed.

    (One rumor has it that it’s not shielded and therefore gives away the carriers exact location every time a plane is launched. But what we know is that it doesn’t have individual switches for each of the four catapults, and they’re not very reliable as of yet, so it can’t launch very many planes before all four have failed.

    Also read there’s a motor-generator requiring a 30 minute or maybe 1 hour 30 minute spin down before the catapults can be worked on. And supposedly no room to install the massive switches required to be able to isolate and work on any one catapult. These are fundamental architectural defects that should results in some very bad things happening to a number of officers, among other things.)

    • Replies: @Tim1911
  32. Notsofast says:
    @RoatanBill

    the lady doth troll too much, methinks.

    • Agree: RoatanBill
  33. @Notsofast

    Nope there’s no point in making a torpedo any faster

    Because subs don’t move very fast, and you DON’T want to give away your position, so making a superfast torpedo makes no sense

    And submarines don’t have Aegis interceptors, once a torpedo is shot at your location you are boned

    People have made faster experimental torpedos but they aren’t used

    A torpedo is just a bomb with a power supply that operates a tiny propeller, and theres no actual way to speed it up

    Most use a compressed gas to turn a tiny propeller

    torpedo’s and submarines are designed for stealth

    • Replies: @Notsofast
  34. @RoatanBill

    Yes I am well aware of supercavitating torpedos

    But nobody uses them because they are mostly pointless see my above post on why they are pointless

    • LOL: RoatanBill
    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  35. @hbd investor

    It’s a shame the Russians didn’t seek your advice before they spent all that engineering, time and money on building their 100 ton useless device.

    Maybe you should send them an email to inform them of their mistake.

    • Agree: Mulga Mumblebrain
    • Replies: @hbd investor
  36. Notsofast says:
    @hbd investor

    they are currently working on a rubber band powered one that’s even quieter.

  37. roonaldo says:

    Now, United Airlines has canceled a couple of thousand flights or more due to lack of crew, unavailable for refusing to take the poisonous jabs.

    The sub may have been undermanned or without key crew for the same reason. Perhaps jab refusers were aboard but not allowed to work–these subs may remain submerged for months–had this one? Perhaps jabbed crew were falling ill or in a jab-induced mental fog in the stressful, cramped quarters–one can’t just take a stroll on deck for some fresh air.

    A cascade of foul-ups could have occurred–a maintenance problem, task protocol failure, bleary-eyed overworked operator error, misinterpreted order, etc.–who knows? We don’t and likely never will.

  38. Hilarious.

    Boomers shocked that other Boomers have behaved like Boomers.

    Clueless entitled idiots who internalized Simon&Garfunkel. Your generation’s stupidity will certainly be the death of America and most of Western Europe. It remains to be seen how much damage your offspring will inflict. Many appear devoted to “the day of the pillow” which, in conjunction with your gene therapy predilection, might yet save civilization.

  39. @Hbd investor

    The putative submersible (a new device based on the latest technology) could be silent enough to evade passive sonar, just as Soviet-era submarines were. It isn’t unreasonable at all.
    What seems unreasonable is the “patriotic” move of assuming that the defense budget is well spent. Also, the Chinese confidence in continually asking about the incident while knowing that the US can’t publicly respond is the key fact that all commentators are choosing to ignore.

    It seems that commentators on Unz like to traffic in meme talking points:
    1. The Chinese can’t invent or innovate, only copy ideas.
    2. The US military is competent, well-trained, invincible, and procurement isn’t rife with fraud, waste, and abuse.
    3. The yellow man is inferior.
    4. ‘Murrika

    If someone were swayed by these, he would seek explanations that fit them, not the observable facts. He would reject all explanations that put the Chinese as competent and in control.
    It’s like with Afghanistan – the military brass can lie to the civilian leadership until circumstances no longer permit.

  40. @RoatanBill

    Its experimental and not used

    The range is extremely short and it gives away your position immediately, In a actual fight using this torpedo will get you killed since it gives away your position immediately allowing the other ship to fire a torpedo back!

    Also it cannot use Sonar since it is supercavitating so can’t self adjust or target anything

    Multiple countries have wasted money on supercavitating torpedos as a proof of concept

    So what are you suggesting?

    That China created a theoretically useless weapon, put that useless weapon on a submarine, to intercept a submarine that they did not know was going to be there.

    And they somehow fired this extremely noisy weapon undetected, with no warhead. And for some reason the US is keeping all this a secret instead of demonizing like they normally do they chose to cover everything up.

    The Seawolf is the equivalent of a F-22 for subs

    Or is it more likely that the Sea wolf hit a couple of rocks, and got damaged. And is covering it up and isn’t accusing China (Because they know that China can easily disprove attack accusations)

    US Navy also has a long history of crashing into stuff

    Let me bring out the exhibits

    [MORE]

    ———————
    https://features.propublica.org/navy-accidents/us-navy-crashes-japan-cause-mccain/

    On June 17, 2017, shortly after 1:30 a.m., the USS Fitzgerald, a \$1.8 billion destroyer belonging to the 7th Fleet, collided with a giant cargo ship off the coast of Japan. Seven sailors drowned in their sleeping quarters. It was the deadliest naval disaster in four decades.

    Barely two months later, it happened again. The USS John S. McCain, its poorly trained crew fumbling with its controls, turned directly in front of a 30,000-ton oil tanker. Ten more sailors died.

    Some other US ships that crashed recently

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Ambush_(S120)

    On 20 July 2016, while surfacing on an exercise in the Strait of Gibraltar, Ambush collided with the Panama-flagged merchant ship Andreas, sustaining significant damage to the top of her conning tower where some of her sonar equipment is housed. It was reported that no crew members were injured during the collision and that the submarine’s nuclear reactor section remained completely undamaged.[23][24][25][26] Repairs cost £2.1 million and the commander, who was training a group of students at the time, was sentenced to forfeiting a year of seniority for negligently hazarding the vessel.[27]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehime_Maru_and_USS_Greeneville_collision

    On 9 February 2001, about nine nautical miles (17 km; 10 mi) south of Oahu, Hawaii in the Pacific Ocean, the United States Navy (USN) Los Angeles-class submarine USS Greeneville (SSN-772) collided with the Japanese-fishery high-school training ship Ehime Maru (えひめ丸) from Ehime Prefecture. In a demonstration for some VIP civilian visitors, Greeneville performed an emergency ballast blow surfacing maneuver. As the submarine shot to the surface, it struck Ehime Maru. Within 10 minutes of the collision, Ehime Maru sank. Nine of the thirty-five people aboard were killed: four high-school students, two teachers, and three crew members.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Guardian_(MCM-5)

    On 17 January 2013, following a port call and fuel stop in Subic, Guardian proceeded across the Sulu Sea, and entered the Tubbataha Reefs Natural Park.[3] At 2:25 am she ran aground on Tubbataha Reef, about 130 kilometres (70 nmi) south east of Palawan in the Philippines.[4][5] About 90 minutes after the grounding, she was seen on park radar at approximately 04:00 hours local time.[6] At the time of the accident, the ship was travelling from Subic Bay in the Philippines to Indonesia.[7] The extent of any damage to the reef was unknown, but there was no evidence of fuel leaks.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Hartford_and_USS_New_Orleans_collision

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Newport_News_(SSN-750)

    Collision with Japanese ship

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_USS_Port_Royal_grounding

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Porter_(DDG-78)

    On 12 August 2012, Porter collided with MV Otowasan, an oil tanker, near the Strait of Hormuz.[6] The collision ripped a 3-by-3-meter (10 ft × 10 ft) hole in the starboard side of the destroyer, forcing her to Jebel Ali, Dubai for repairs. No one on either ship was injured.[7][8] Initially Naval Forces Central Command did not provide details about the collision, saying that it was under investigation

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_John_S._McCain_and_Alnic_MC_collision

    ———————-

    The US Navy has a long history of crashing into things despite having equipment to easily avoid it

    • Thanks: Biff, animalogic, Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @tyrone
    , @animalogic
  41. @RoatanBill

    Hitting some underwater object isn’t believable. These subs have all manner of electronic gear that could detect whatever it is in their path.

    As for the “isn’t believable” part of your statement, I take the opposite position. Modern submarines are incredibly quiet, and that’s because everything which might detect something ahead is turned off.

    The Chinese point of view may be quite different. Just speculating, but the areas where US nuclear subs roam may be littered with super-sensitive Chinese gear to track foreign submarines. My very first thought was much like yours – the Chinese had found popular routes were there were many transits, and possibly anchored to the seabed a number of intert masses for the submarines to run into. Our ideas on the subject may not be correct, but neither are they crazy. 🙂

    At the wiki is a map of the various seamounts in the South China Sea, so the US sub may have simply collided with one of them.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_China_Sea

    There are only three of this type of sub, and they cost a Fortune!

    In 1983, the estimated unit cost of each one of these boats was pegged at \$3.1 billion, more than \$8.5 billion in 2021 dollars, making them the most expensive attack submarine ever designed.

    According to the latest account at a milblog site, the thing will be repaired, no matter what that costs.

    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42954/uss-connecticut-smashed-into-a-seamount-may-have-ripped-off-sonar-dome

    I must agree with most of what Mr. Walsh writes. The US is looking for trouble, and the cost of that if they find it may be more than we want to pay.

    • Thanks: nokangaroos
    • Replies: @Quartermaster
  42. Biff says:
    @Anon

    I heard it hit an undersea cliff.

    Exactly! The guy driving the other submarine was named Cliff.

  43. But I thought nuclear power was good and safe and nobody ever died from it and it was going to save us from the energy crisis and global warming and everything.

    Gee, was I wrong.

    • Replies: @Montefrío
    , @bike-anarkist
  44. In unrelated news, the USS Connecticut recently announced its first female helmsperson.

  45. Seriously, if this were a Chernobyl type nuclear event it would be reported as such. I’m not hearing about mutant fish or a stream of dead fish along the path to Quam where it’s now in dry dock awaiting transport to Hawaii for repair.
    This incident happened because sone pos AA diversity tranny drag Queen navigator was high on edibles while on duty.
    That’s CQ’s assessment.
    Cue Village People song ‘In The Navy,

    • Replies: @The_MasterWang
  46. tyrone says:
    @hbd investor

    Right!, even tied up at dock the shit show continues ,Bonhomme Richard comes to mind.

  47. Derer says:
    @Notsofast

    It did not hit anything…this is the new strategy to contain Chinese successful economy. It appears the sanctions have no effect. The USA have lost their ability of fair competition so the sinister gang keeps creating new schemes. That damaged brain keeps working.

    BTW, Chinese should confiscate that sub if it was in their territorial waters.

  48. utu says:
    @Anon

    USS Donald Cook incident = Lubyanka hoax widely believed by buthurt Russians dimwits and renegade American rightoid primitives.

    • Troll: Mulga Mumblebrain
    • Replies: @skrik
    , @Derer
    , @DrCiber
  49. @That Would Be Telling

    “If it uses all those “manners of electronic gear” to detect what’s in its path, specifically active sonar, it also advertises its position, which in normal situations is considered bad form….”
    OK, fair enough. However, wouldn’t the Sub have navigational material to address this issue? Shouldn’t the Sub captain been operating well within safe margins? (of course, this assumes that the sub hit a natural feature, rather than some kind of man made interference)

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  50. @Notsofast

    It’s hardly a “translation from pentagonese to english”. It’s a translation of pentagonese into groundless speculation.

    • Replies: @Avery
  51. This is all just groundless speculation, with no hard evidence whatsoever to support it.

    • Replies: @Badger Down
  52. @TimeTraveller

    “It seems that commentators on Unz like to traffic in meme talking points:”
    The memes you point to do not seem to be common at Unz. I suspect the opposite is more likely — ie contra/negative views of the US etc.

  53. @hbd investor

    “The USS John S. McCain, ”
    To use that name — my god, what a jinx.

  54. @RoatanBill

    You don’t use your “electronic equipments” if you are sneaking around. Any emission will greatly increase the chance of detection.

    And they just found out the hard way their underwater map wasn’t that accurate.

    Remember the seemingly impossible feat of a British sub and a French sub crashing into each other in the Atlantic ocean? All those fancy equipments didn’t prevent that.

    • Agree: Showmethereal
    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  55. @That Would Be Telling

    Think of the money you’d save. Keep a few ships patrolling the US coasts. You know, defence! Blundering around at the other end of the planet, blindly bumping into Unidentified Objects is SO expensive! How is this good for “israel”?

  56. @RoatanBill

    You are conflating two different Russian weapons. A dumb-fire underwater rocket and that doomsday submarine.

  57. @CelestiaQuesta

    Satellite photo shows only the front end of the sub was damaged. But to such an extend the whole sonar dome is exposed – the outer shell fell off. The reactor is further to the back of the submarine.

  58. gotmituns says:

    Our navy is becoming a hazard to navigation.

  59. Smith says:

    It’s probably not an accident.
    They left something there.

  60. Avery says:
    @Cook my Goose

    {groundless speculation.}

    It is speculation, but absolutely not groundless.

    For example, the author speculates: “..in the South China Sea near or inside Chinese territorial waters. “. This speculation is based on solid grounds. In the 1970s US navy sent subs deep inside USSR territorial waters to tap underwater communication cables in the Sea of Okhotssk, SU Pacific Fleet’s area/headquarters.

    Also, cable taps were installed on Soviet cables in many other parts of SU’s territorial waters.
    So not only US Navy is capable of conducting spying operations deep inside an adversary’s territorial waters, but Pentagon and, presumably the White House, are fully prepared for the consequences of such an operation.

    • Replies: @Smith
  61. @RoatanBill

    … what is wrong with advertising your position in international waters by using the equipment on board to protect the boat and crew?

    When you are in international waters and headed towards the line, you don’t want to let the adversary know you are on the way, and when you cross the line (the US did it all the time with the Sovs during Cold War 1.0) you certainly don’t want the adversary to know you are in his garden.

  62. @RoatanBill

    Oh yes. Practice being an idiot. USer militants gone wild. Perfectly safe in Hawaii. Stupid sub Greenville and Ehime Maru:

    https://www.forces.net/news/incidents-between-submarines-and-civilian-vessels

  63. If would not be surprised if any undersea maps of Chinese territorial waters made available to the rest of the world are somewhat inaccurate, for the same reasons the US can make its GPS constellation vary significantly in its degree of accuracy at anytime.

  64. @RoatanBill

    in the Hawaiian island

    OK, now you’re talking. I thought you meant it was safe to blunder blind in a submarine in the ocean near Hawaii. Putting your boat and crew inland makes much more sense: out of the water, out of danger.
    If yanqui would just go home, we could all have nice days. Except “israel”, of course.

  65. @Cook my Goose

    … until you run your submarine into it.

  66. LOL. Two superpowers go bump in the night. Who’s going to blink first?

  67. Z-man says:

    Ideally 500 million Asiatics would be eliminated along with 500 million negros in Africa and 500 million south Asians. At first that sounds harsh but when you distribute this culling among the constituent groups (eg. south Asia-India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Ceylon) it’s not that bad.
    Oh, include 15 million Ay-rabs, 25 million central Americans, 25 million minorities in the USA (the lowest of the low) and of course the magical 6 Million Jews and then you really have something good going on. (Evil grin)
    PS. Include some of the stupidest shit lib whites from all over the world in this culling.

  68. @obwandiyag

    “Gee, I was wrong.”

    Don’t feel upset, you’re nearly always wrong.

  69. @animalogic

    However, wouldn’t the Sub have navigational material to address [running silently into an obstacle]? Shouldn’t the Sub captain been operating well within safe margins? (of course, this assumes that the sub hit a natural feature, rather than some kind of man made interference)

    You would think so, but apparently we haven’t thoroughly mapped all the areas in which our sub might want to operate, and for contested areas that would require active sonar which would for example get the PRC upset about the huge section of the South China Sea they’re aggressively trying to claim, one of many things that is generally helping form alliances against it. Per Wikipedia about the last time this happened with much more severe results:

    On 8 January 2005 at 02:43 GMT, San Francisco collided with an undersea mountain about 364 nautical miles (675 km) southeast of Guam while operating at flank (maximum) speed at a depth of 525 feet (160 m)….

    The collision was so serious that the vessel was almost lost; accounts detail a desperate struggle for positive buoyancy to surface after the forward ballast tanks were ruptured. Ninety-eight crewmen were injured, and Machinist’s Mate Second Class Joseph Allen Ashley, 24, of Akron, Ohio, died from head injuries on 9 January. Other injuries to the crew included broken bones, spinal injury, and lacerations….

    San Francisco’s captain Commander Kevin Mooney was reassigned to a shore unit in Guam during the investigation of the collision. The Navy concluded that “several critical navigational and voyage planning procedures” were not being implemented aboard San Francisco, despite Mooney’s otherwise remarkably good record. Consequently, the Navy relieved Mooney of his command and issued him a letter of reprimand.

    Six crewmen received non-judicial punishment hearings for hazarding a vessel and dereliction of duty, and they were reduced in rank and given letters of reprimand.

    [Twenty received rewards for saving the boat.]

    The seamount that San Francisco struck did not appear on the chart in use at the time of the accident, but other charts available for use indicated an area of “discolored water”, an indication of the probable presence of a seamount. The Navy determined that information regarding the seamount should have been transferred to the charts in use—particularly given the relatively uncharted nature of the ocean area that was being transited—and that the failure to do so represented a breach of proper procedures.

    Nonetheless, a subsequent study by UMass Amherst indicated that the Navy’s charts did not contain the latest data relevant to the crash site because the geographical area was not a priority for the Defense Mapping Agency. Moreover, a subsequent report “found that the (submarine’s parent) squadron and the group could have done more to prepare the ship for sea.” Specifically, it determined that the submarine’s squadron “did not take adequate action to correct previously identified deficiencies in open ocean navigation onboard SFO,” and did not provide adequate oversight of San Francisco’s navigation performance.

    Additionally, “The report also notes the document known as a ‘Subnote’ from the Group, which laid out a path and average speed, was delivered to the ship two-and-a-half days before San Francisco sailed, and the Group’s own requirements are that it be to the ship three to five days before sailing.” Ultimate responsibility for navigational safety rests with the ship’s captain and crew, not the Subnote; however, “The report found that the Subnote did route the San Francisco through the area where it hit the seamount.”

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
    , @animalogic
  70. @animalogic

    “The USS John S. McCain, ”
    To use that name — my god, what a jinx.

    Heh. But that’s the grandfather of the John McCain we knew and hated. He was a WWII four star admiral, per Wikipedia “in 1942 he commanded all land-based air operations in support of the Guadalcanal campaign, and in 1944–45 he aggressively led the Fast Carrier Task Force.” In this along with the higher level Task Force he traded off command with Admiral Marc Mitscher and above them Halsey and Spruance, the latter two reporting to Nimitz. This was to allow them and their staff to alternately plan and then execute operations.

    You know how various of us Human Biodiversity (HBD) types believe a great deal of behavior is genetic? “Our” McCain inherited his legendary temper from his grandfather, you won’t read about the latter in Wikipedia.

    (I am somewhat biased, I have a lot more respect for Spruance and Mitscher, although the really big task force screw ups where Halsey’s fault, such as the Battle off Samar which a good friend’s father experienced in Taffy 2, the task unit immediately to the south of the famous Taffy 3 (McCain did well in that, paying attention to what was happening and turning the Fast Carrier Task Force to aid them before receiving Halsey’s order), and “Halsey’s Typhoon” in December 1944.)

  71. Sounds like Naval Academy diversity is now in charge of the US nuclear sub fleet. This may lead to accidental war in the future.

  72. @Badger Down

    Think of the money you’d save. Keep a few ships patrolling the US coasts. You know, defence! Blundering around at the other end of the planet, blindly bumping into Unidentified Objects is SO expensive! How is this good for “israel”?

    Two issues: Keeping the sea lanes open is good for everyone, we’ve always been a maritime power, and we still have lots of goods to deliver by ship, and if you don’t practice blue water naval operations you won’t be good at them if/when a war starts. Plus the further away from your homeland you fight such a war, the less the homeland will be attacked. Your scheme also doesn’t consider Hawaii; it has been considered since the time of our Founders, but never found much favor.

  73. sally says:
    @Notsofast

    No, the real question is why was the news and details of the event blocked out and who blocked it out and why?

    What kind of mission would cause this kind of incident?

    The broader question is what was the vessel doing there..? Who is responsible for its mis navigation? Was it due to operator error? Was it due to fear on the run assumption of risk without time to look back? Was it due to map error? Was it due to electronic equipment malfunction? or did the rock grow into a fast growing floating mountain from the ocean floor? maybe a space monster did a nose dive into the sea? Was there an explosion and is the current story a cover?

    The MSM and its fake news content will never reveal to Americas the true story of what it is the government that claims it represents governed Americans has done in foreign lands and places?

    How much did that submarine cost the American Taxpayers?

    • Replies: @Notsofast
  74. skrik says:
    @utu

    Lubyanka hoax widely believed by buthurt ..

    Kindly provide credible substantiation for this bizarre outburst or STFU; in the vernacular: Piss-off, get lost, be gone.

    • LOL: 36 ulster
    • Replies: @utu
  75. Yee says:

    One of the few occasions that incompetence is preferable to other possibilities… LOL

  76. chris m says:

    you dont suppose that having somebody who sounds like Captain Pugwash in charge of the sub might have something to do with it?


    (Childrens TV programme of 1960s/1970s

  77. @Z-man

    While you fantasize about exterminating subhumans, White girls are still getting raped. Sometimes by “transgender” boys. And the father got arrested for confronting the school board.

    Pathetic.

    • Replies: @Z-man
  78. @That Would Be Telling

    I thought it was named in honor of all John S. McCains? There’s a 4th John McCain, iirc.

  79. Smith says:
    @Avery

    This is probably it.

    The Global Times has been making buzz about an internal NGO inside China monitoring naval activities in China’s shores too:
    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202110/1237692.shtml

    At this point, I really wonder why the chinese haven’t scrapped the Nine dash line and get closer to ASEAN, maybe they want death by a thousand cut?

    • Replies: @Avery
  80. Z-man says:
    @The_MasterWang

    Then put the shit lib globo-homo elite on the top of the (my) list.
    Also white women, living in this globo-homo diverse world, should be better educated and trained to protect themselves. Unfortunately that will take away from their womanly traits and attraction, imho.

  81. Notsofast says:
    @sally

    mockingbird media is a more apt description. mbm

  82. skrik says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    Pretty disgusting when some *person* [LGBTIQA+, yeah!] lets their pants down in public. Go for it!

  83. Who cares??? America is a gasping, dying, decaying superpower who’s country domestically is so divided it’s not even clear what it means to be an American anymore. It really is a 3rd world banana republic. 80 million people were deceived and outright had an election stolen from them and a coup d’etat initiated against them. I talk to my Russian friends and while they utter the same diatribes against Putin ie corruption, blah blah blah as many did against Trump they are all proud of their country, heritage, history and most if all embrace the concept of a family being headed by heterosexual human beings. America has become a degenerate cesspool of debauchery. American women are the biggest culprits. They have eviscerated men and masculinity and men have allowed it. When you have women like Maxine Waters, Pelosi, Feinstein, Omar, AOC, Corey Bush, E. Warren, Harris etc. having any say at all in running a country or holding political office you can see how far gone America is. Russia will be the next white Christian super power if Putin can remain its leader or pass the torch to a worthy successor. America has nothing to offer the world except hallowed out finance capitalism and a paper tiger petro dollar military force. We can’t even as a country decide how to use our natural resources efficiently without someone bemoaning. If it’s not the greenies its the natives or some other minority.

    • Thanks: CelestiaQuesta
  84. TGD says:

    I admit that this might be a dumb question, but why aren’t submarines equipped with television cameras so they can see what’s in front of them?

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @A123
    , @Resartus
    , @raga10
  85. A123 says: • Website
    @Hbd investor

    A more plausible explanation is that the U.S. submarine accidentally ran over an unmanned PLA vehicle.

    Nope that is completely implausible, passive sonar let’s you detect moving objects

    Active sonar let’s you detect still objects but it gives away your location, so for a still object like a ocean rock you won’t be able to see it

    So any sort of vehicle moving close enough to physically ram you would be detected

    This is basic physics and how submarines work

    I concur with your general point.

    Anything moving fast enough to create an intentional collision will be making enough noise to be detected. Torpedoes are very noisy when running at 40+ knots.
    _____

    However, the concept of accidental contact provides much wider scope to potential events:
    — Unmanned, electrically driven submersibles are difficult to track with passive sonar.
    — Slow moving vehicles are much harder to locate versus fast ones.

    Assume a scenario where both sides are interested in underseas cables. It is not that hard to imagine a case where a sub accidentally hits a large, slow or stationary, unmanned vehicle.

    PEACE 😇

  86. @obwandiyag

    Some will not understand the irony of that statement.

  87. SafeNow says:

    Cookie-cutter sharks have blinded subs before, by taking a bite out of the soft sonar dome. Return to port for repairs, all because of a fish the size of your forearm. Then a way was found to protect the soft parts of a sub; but maybe the shark-protection team messed-up. Every other possible cause of a blinded sub has been mentioned, so I thought I would throw this in for the sake of completeness.

  88. Would a \$300 dollar underwater GoPro camera prevented this disasters?
    As my negro friend in the hood tells me, he say CQ, sumpin ant rite, schitt, who drives a billion dolla sub wif no eyez?

  89. I just want to know if a woman was driving.

  90. Smith says:
    @TGD

    They have sonar.

    This isn’t a mere accident btw, if it was, the chinese wouldn’t be raising hell about US not disclosing it.

    What’s weird to me is why the chinese haven’t sent their own subs to investigate, not like anyone is gonna stop them.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    , @Anon
  91. @The_MasterWang

    Correct. Whether it had been detected or not beforehand we dont know… But we know now for sure the ship os definitely profiled which will make it much easier to detect… In fact the other seawolf class will be easier also (but not as easy since each sub makes its own unique “noise”.
    But nuclear subs are always “noisier” than diesel electrics in their stealth mode anyway.

  92. Ace says:
    @Realist

    Are you a U.S. citizen?

    • Replies: @Realist
  93. d dan says:

    1. This accident is probably the best answer to Australia, who recently ditched the conventional submarine contract with France to go with US nuclear submarine. France is probably laughing privately. Will the Australian capable to handle the nuclear submarine?

    2. US navy has a sorry record of safety for many years. Their destroyers even collided with container ship and tanker (how fast can these civilian ships move?) in Singapore and Japan a few years ago (Some commenters also mention this). The amphibious assault ship USS Bonhomme Richard was set on fire. Another nuclear-powered submarine USS Miami was also set on fire till they have to scrap the boat. Many commanders, including some senior ones in the 7th Fleet were fired or demoted. The reasons given were: overwork, under sleep, low morale, poor training, etc. Most likely reasons: incompetence, arrogance, indiscipline (including drunk) and aggressive (strategically or tactically) adventurism.

    3. A few days ago, US sent the spy plane WC-135 Constant Phoenix into South China Sea. Guess what is the plane’s main capability? To detects radioactive debris. Naturally, some speculate the purpose is to check for potential leak from the Seawolf submarine’s accident. But equally relevant is the recent US effort to equip F-35 to be able to carry tactical nuclear weapon. The WC-135 may be there to check for important data to prepare for future uses of nuclear weapon. Like the AUKUS, this is another extremely irresponsible and dangerous move because it lowers the threshold for nuclear war. It will increase the likelihood for misjudgment because every F-35 could be suspected for carrying nuclear weapon. It is also putting most the US vassal states (hosting F-35) in danger of being (pre-emptive or not) attacked by China or Russia.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3154476/us-spy-planes-over-south-china-sea-likely-surveyed-nuclear

    • Replies: @Resartus
    , @raga10
  94. @That Would Be Telling

    You are very confused about China’s claims. The alliance formed against it is by NONE of the other claimants in the sea. and the claims are for the islands not the water. in the Treaty of Taipei after WW2 Japan was forced to sign the islands back over the China. That is documented history – not the revision of the 21sr century. And the idea that China would NOT fortify any holdings it has would be derelict on the part of the governent. That would be like Washington letting Russia park its navy in the Caribbean. Its not even remotely logical.

    • Agree: Badger Down
  95. @Z-man

    Then you’ll certainly love the new RiVax, bankrolled in part by Wm. Gates, Jr. to combat a potential Marburg pandemic. What could go wrong with a Ricin-based vaccine deployed globally for a disease that has only killed 16 people in more than 15 years?

  96. @Smith

    What it tells you is that the ChiComs knew exactly where the US boat went bump in the night, and they are calling out the US to come clean.

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @Joe Paluka
  97. utu says:
    @skrik

    “Russian state media “deliberately reported a total fabrication in order to glorify Russia”

    Fake Russian EW attack unmasked
    https://defensesystems.com/articles/2017/05/12/fakeew.aspx

    According to a detailed post-mortem released this week, the alleged April 2014 “electronic bomb” attack by a Russian fighter aircraft on the Aegis-class destroyer USS Donald Cook was a hoax.

    • Thanks: Ron Unz
  98. What was the unidentified object? Most likely a Chinese submarine with pretentious, which most likely is rusting now at the bottom of the South East Asian sea with its marginally trained crew. I hope they had terracotta, life size sailors aboard to guard the remains from becoming fish food. Oh, well! That’s what you get trying to compete with the hegemon.

  99. SafeNow says:

    Charlie Sheen said to his team in “Navy Seals” as a final word: “Be careful out there!” A guy replies “If I was careful, I’d be in The Coast Guard.” Funny, okay, but maybe there’s something to it. (But respect to the Seals)

  100. A123 says: • Website
    @TGD

    I admit that this might be a dumb question, but why aren’t submarines equipped with television cameras so they can see what’s in front of them?

    For military vehicles the primary threat is related to noise.

    Go down a few hundred meters and everything is pitch black. To see one would need an array of cameras and lights that are very hard to make acoustically quiet. Also, as soon as it became known that subs were using lights, enemies would start looking for moving light sources. It becomes the same problem as active sonar.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

  101. The mother of all coveruppers is none other than Schmoogle. Top Schmoogle engineer blows the whistle on the latest Satan’s brainchild:

    “Google Ushering in “Tecno-Communism”, Totalitarian Control”

    “Google is trying to pull a Red October moment on the entire world”

    https://rumble.com/voffw5-whistleblower-google-ushering-in-tecno-communism-totalitarian-control.html

    • Thanks: Miro23
  102. Godzilla…………they bumped into the big guy.

  103. I wish the CCP would stop wasting its financial resources. Why repeat errors the USA and other western Occident nations have made over the last eighty years? That is, to artificially support a highly skilled over educated upper middle class with a Military Industrial Complex of its own. Why are the Chinese people financing the construction of a third aircraft carrier in the midst of a domestic debt crisis and collapsing real estate market? This situation begs the question, why not employ the best and the brightest Chinese to construct fifty additional commercial nuclear reactors exactly identical to the one they recently built in the city of Wuwei? A novel design, in the Gen IV class of Th 232 reactors that cannot provide nuclear bomb making substances, with a fission product waste stream that is far less toxic and is cheaper to process and storage, when compared to the MOX type reactors.

    The unnecessary carrier construction is the result of an oil shipping route vulnerability, a bottleneck of sorts in the South China Sea, where eighty percent of China’s imported oil must traverse, exposing freighters to pirating, terrorism and wartime sinking or seizure/confiscations. I suppose the Chinese do not wish to finance and protect pipelines from the Middle East or get too dependent on Russian pipelines for domestic energy needs. In symbolic terms, the Chinese people are still in love with their “Great Wall”, we can all understand this desire for self-sufficiency and cultural isolation. Point being, domestic commercial nuclear energy is the way out of naval military build up, the supporting manufacturing architecture for that navy, plus a land based air force to back up ships engaged in confrontations on the high seas. Consequently, the CCP will experience an ever so gradual fiscal bankruptcy this old paradigm will bring, as evidenced by the collapse of the former USSR and soon, the USA. They are both prime examples of this strategic conundrum and the unnecessary suffering and hardship it has needlessly brought to two great nations.

    When one takes a magnifying glass to the imported oil’s distribution into the Chinese manufacturing sector, only a fraction will go into plastics and pharmaceuticals, a good portion will likely go into the automobile industry. On a grand scale there are approximately two hundred million Chinese waiting for an auto with, guess what, with four tires per car. That translates into one billion tires folks, plus almost nanoparticle pollution problem tires bring into the water supply (currently there’s already an ongoing drinking/agriculture use crisis in China) All tires emit, through general wear and tear these environmental hazards, not to mention carcinogenic chemicals released during their manufacture.

    In summary then, China needs to expand it’s already well executed system of high-speed rail, promote both inter-urban bus and electric motor shuttle bus/taxi services, in effect to perform a complete U turn by Henry Ford, who conspired to shut down all public transport services. This will greatly enhance their energy independence and national security by avoiding the petrochemical investments as much as possible.

    • Thanks: Sarah
  104. raga10 says:
    @RoatanBill

    When not on a war footing, hiding from the “enemy”, what is wrong with advertising your position in international waters by using the equipment on board to protect the boat and crew?

    Fair question, but it’s actually a standard practice for subs not to use their active sonar; they just don’t like others to know where they are. That’s why French and UK subs collided in the Atlantic in 2009 – they were both creeping along, their active sonars were not operating, and their passive sonars didn’t detect the other sub because they were both completely silent. The good thing was that to maintain that silence they were also going very slowly, so the damage was light.

    Russians and Chinese don’t exactly advertise positions of their subs either.

    • Replies: @A123
  105. Resartus says:
    @TGD

    I admit that this might be a dumb question, but why aren’t submarines equipped with television cameras so they can see what’s in front of them?

    Still waiting on a copy of the “Seaview”, with an observer window in the front…..
    Can’t believe they don’t have the “Flying Sub”…..

  106. Corrupt says:
    @RoatanBill

    “Hitting some underwater object isn’t believable. These subs have all manner of electronic gear that could detect whatever it is in their path.”

    How much time have you spent on a submarine? Subs normally use passive sonar only, which won’t warn you of an uncharted underwater mountain. There have been many instances of subs hitting uncharted underwater geographic features.

    • Replies: @raga10
  107. Resartus says:
    @d dan

    The reasons given were: overwork, under sleep, low morale, poor training, etc.

    Those issues were brought up in the mid-90s, when women were officially allowed on board,
    ships were being designed to cut crew size by 30 to 40%…..

    But then the Navy went out and created Bio Diesel for their Jets at \$400 a gallon…..

  108. skrik says:
    @utu

    ‘Pot calling the kettle black;’ the corrupt&venal MSM+PFBCs transmit and *actively augment* lying, psyop propaganda – why should you or your citation be ‘believed?’ I requested “credible substantiation,” like certified witness statements, say – one ‘original report’ had US sailors walking off the USS ‘Sitting Duck’ at the very next opportunity, to quit the navy and go home [presumably due to shitting their pants during/after the Russian ‘demo’] – can anybody ‘out there’ corroborate?

    Oh, one other thing: IF ZUSA vs. Russia ever gets serious THEN we may be able to see [assuming we ‘survive’ the conflict], just who has been bullshitting. Tip: IF the ZUSA thought it could win THEN it would instantly attack. No attack? = ZUSA can’t win, and C&R just get even stronger by the minute. Same vis-à-vis ZUSA vs. China. I expect you know where I think you should stick your warmongering. Earliest.

    • Replies: @utu
  109. Joe Wong says:
    @Anon

    I heard USS Connecticut hit the cliff because the male and female crews at the helm were busy conducting bare body close contact combat exercise, while the others watched intensely; all of them forgotten to watch the navigation monitors and could not hear the collision alarms.

  110. A123 says: • Website
    @raga10

    Another key point for passive sonar detection is other noise sources. The are a large number of freighters and other surface vessels pounding away in the South China Sea basin. In the mid Pacific, subs hunt each other in deep waters where there is minimal acoustic clutter. In the SCS, subs often run shallower and actively hide in “noise shadows” created by large, loud surface ships.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

  111. Derer says:
    @utu

    “Indeed, U.S. military analysts had earlier cast doubt on claims that the Russian EW system had disabled the U.S. ship’s radar and electronics.”

    Do you believe these WMD cheaters?

  112. raga10 says:
    @Corrupt

    True. About 15 years ago USS San Francisco run full speed into an undersea mountain 500ft under the surface – the mountain just wasn’t charted so they had no idea it was even there. It’s a miracle that sub didn’t sink!

  113. @Anon

    It is absolutely plain from the history of the USA, and the Western Judeo-Christian ‘civilization’ that it epitomises, that the intent is to destroy China, for the crime of ending 500 years of Divinely ordained Western rule over humanity, and smash it ‘..back to the Stone Age’. The hatred spewing all across the Western world, driven by a MSM so Evil that one is still affronted day after day by its malevolence, is so insanely extreme, so racist, so deranged (as we see with the resident Sinophobe genocidaires here)that one can draw no other conclusion. Western Civilization is about to reach its inevitable apotheosis in a great ‘Clash of Civilizations’ race war.

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
    • Replies: @skrik
    , @The_MasterWang
    , @Derer
  114. @Notsofast

    I’m willing to bet a paycheck that the sub was being navigated by one of the Navy’s precious woke tokens (i.e., a woman/woman of color, a queer, a transgendered orangutan, or any of the other pedestalized freaks the armed forces are going out of their way to recruit). This accounts in no small measure for the ongoing coverup. The narrative WILL be preserved at all costs.

  115. @elmerfudzie

    There’s a lot that’s questionable about your recommendations, including security of very long distance pipelines vs. bringing crude by ships which have their own vulnerabilities, but here you drop at least two clangers:

    why not employ the best and the brightest Chinese to construct fifty additional commercial nuclear reactors exactly identical to the one they recently built in the city of Wuwei? A novel design, in the Gen IV class of Th 232 reactors that cannot provide nuclear bomb making substances

    Because this reactor is a test one, producing two megawatts of thermal energy. Sounds like it’ll be useful to work out issues, on an absolute scale that’s not a small amount of energy, but if everything goes right they’re still years from making commercial scale power plants of this design, whereas they’re fine with the current stuff, from Wikipedia:

    China is one of the world’s largest producers of nuclear power. The country ranks third in the world both in total nuclear power capacity installed and electricity generated, accounting for around one tenth of global nuclear power generated. Nuclear power contributed 4.9% of the total Chinese electricity production in 2019, with 348.1 TWh.

    OK, it would be a lot better if nuclear supplied more than 4.9%, but…. They also have avoided the safety culture problems that make Japan unsuited for doing anything nuclear, something obvious before the tsunami drove that lesson home.

    It’s also blatantly false that thorium fueled reactors have no proliferation issues. Natural thorium can’t fission, so they’re by definition breeder reactors (and that adds a lot of complexity), and you can chemically extract U-233 from them that’ll probably be weapons grade. But seeing as the PRC has been a nuclear weapons power since 1964, and 1967 for fusion warheads, why even bring it up??

    Disclaimer, I was once roommates with a young “fresh off the boat” guy from the PRC who was a graduate student in nuclear science and engineering at MIT, and he impressed me with his seriousness and intelligence, struck me as the sort of guy you’d want in your nuclear power community.

    • Replies: @Badger Down
    , @elmerfudzie
  116. @xyzxy

    BTW, any idea what they ran in to?

    The reality of the poor staffing choices they made in choosing the crew, but we’ll never find out the truth about that, either.

  117. Realist says:
    @Ace

    Are you a U.S. citizen?

    Yep…born that way…are you?

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  118. raga10 says:
    @TGD

    I admit that this might be a dumb question, but why aren’t submarines equipped with television cameras so they can see what’s in front of them?

    Because it’s too dark to see anything and even if they had lights on that would only provide visibility of some meters at best and that wouldn’t be much help because a ship needs a lot more room than that to stop or change course. And of course if they were trying to be stealthy they wouldn’t want to put the lights on in the first place.

    And to anticipate the next question, water is pretty good at absorbing light at all frequencies, so infrared would only work over a very short distance as well.

    • Replies: @Ocko
  119. skrik says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    The hatred spewing all across the Western world, driven by a MSM so Evil that one is still affronted day after day by its malevolence, is so insanely extreme, ..

    Sadly so [but perhaps not so much ‘driven by’ as ‘relayed/pushed,’ your quoted ‘MSM malevolence’ is understatement]. As I recently informed Fran, ‘hate’ is exclusively a ‘j’ word, so we may ‘sheet the irresponsibility home’ from whence it is sourced.

    This topic is ZUSA subs sniffing around in Chinese waters like mongrel dogs sniffing around where not wanted; other current topics are SARS-CoV-2, Huawei 5G and ‘Russia dunnit!’ etc.

    What is currently ‘beating me’ is just how ZUSA can see how any advantage could possibly be envisaged arising out of what appears to be their absolute and outright idiotic ‘strategic initiatives’ [aka ‘confrontations’]. rgds

  120. @elmerfudzie

    China is building a military designed to protect itself from the most aggressive Evil in history, the USA. They are spending a fraction of the USA and with their growing scientific-technological superiority, will soon be, if not already, impregnable. They know that weakness only invites the psychopaths in Thanatopolis DC to attack, slaughter and destroy. Once invulnerable, they can sit back and watch as the USA and the Western crumble into shite. Then they can help the survivors rebuild their countries.
    How can China go bankrupt? Forty-seven trillion in domestic savings. Mountains of gold and foreign reserves. The banks in the hands of the State. Gigantic foreign trade surpluses. No blood-sucking, mostly alien, financial oligarchy. I don’t see it. I do agree with your attitude to private automobile use, but at least China is electrifying its vehicle fleet, and generally following your prescriptions re. mass transit. It is a society run by rational, sane, humanistic meritocrats-the exact opposite of the USA.

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
    • Replies: @The_MasterWang
  121. @Realist

    When were you asked if you wished to be a US citizen, and when did you assent?

  122. @utu

    A crumbling Empire becomes contemptibly laughable in its agit-prop as the End nears. Of course the Russians are primitive, vodka-swilling, Novichok spreading babboons, compared to the US Navy and its ‘sure relief’, utu. Whistling past the graveyard.

  123. A123 says: • Website
    @Hbd investor

    The US just admitted that the seawolf ran into a mountain

    The SCS is one of the most thoroughly mapped locations around. If an unmapped obstacle is the *whole* story, it is incredibly bad luck. I will not say, this cannot be the explanation. But, I am not fully buying it either.

    We will probably have to wait a few weeks to see if there are any interesting leaks that undercut the official narrative.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

    • Replies: @The_MasterWang
  124. raga10 says:
    @d dan

    1. This accident is probably the best answer to Australia, who recently ditched the conventional submarine contract with France to go with US nuclear submarine. France is probably laughing privately. Will the Australian capable to handle the nuclear submarine?

    1. this accident has absolutely nothing to do with propulsion of the submarine in question

    2. France is definitely not laughing – they were bleeding Australia dry with that contract and they are absolutely spewing having lost this opportunity… and it might also have negative affect on other potential purchases of this model.
    I might also add here that Australia didn’t cancel anything. They chose not to continue development of the project, an option specified by the contract. Which is why France can complain all they want but they have no legal recourse: Contract was not broken, it was executed to the letter.

    3. The model of nuclear reactor Australia is looking at will be sealed for life. It is put into a sub and it stays there; it doesn’t need refueling. That’s why Australia will be able to handle it, because there is nothing for them to handle and this is also how Australia will be able to have these subs without breaking non-proliferation treaties: they will not need to enrich their own uranium to refuel the reactor.

    • Disagree: Badger Down
    • Replies: @showmethereal
    , @d dan
  125. Avery says:
    @Smith

    Yeah, probably is.

    GloboWest is infamous for using NGOs to spy and to sow discord.
    E.g. I read somewhere a while back that even Médecins Sans Frontières— formerly a neutral provider of medical aid to those in need — was involved in some hanky-panky, providing intel to BloboWest spooks.
    Sad.

  126. Avery says:
    @Hbd investor

    {The US just admitted that the seawolf ran into a mountain}

    The US just published a BS Cover story for the gullible to consume, then go back to their usual routine of swilling slop, plopped in front of the TV.

    US will NEVER publicly admit what really happened.
    It’s S.O.P.

    • Agree: Notsofast
  127. @That Would Be Telling

    Well said. Japan has a history of forgetting history. Here’s 1999:
    https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/safety-and-security/safety-of-plants/tokaimura-criticality-accident.aspx

    The Fukushima nuclear fiasco is another example. There’s a marker stone way up on a hillside near there, saying Don’t build below this.
    https://99percentinvisible.org/article/tsunami-stones-ancient-japanese-markers-warn-builders-high-water/

    And they built the nuclear power plant ON A RIVER. I don’t mean next to a river. That’s why 400 tons of water flowed in every day and became radioactive. Now there are dirty water tanks everywhere. The government is planning to mix it with clean water until it’s below the legal limit, then dump it in the Pacific. Any complaints?

    • Replies: @A123
    , @ivan
  128. @animalogic

    “The USS John S. McCain, ”
    To use that name — my god, what a jinx.

    Nah, it’ll never happen. John McCain is a dead white male, and white guys are out of fashion and favor in the DoD. The next new U.S. Navy aircraft carrier will be the USS Kara Hultgreen. A ship named for a (possibly gay) woman who, in the eyes of the woke Establishment, died a martyr to what they consider acts of sexiss bias is much more in keeping with current anti-white male trends. At the same time that name would still add the necessary “jinx” factor to enable plausible deniability in the event of another (inevitable) Bon Homme Richard-style incident.

  129. The Aukus deal is as fatuous as Boris Johnson, as superficial as Scott Morrison, and as senile as Joe Biden. The US is yet to fulfill its own sub requirements, and it is going to build them for Australia as well? And if Australia even gets one, will it be staffed by Americans who know how to operated the thing? The silver lining is that unless the elites can delay their anticipated war with China until 2050, Australia will not have the means to participate… which in my book is a win for Australia.

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  130. Tim1911 says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    Tyler Rogoway on War Zone site, debunked those criticisms in great detail. EMALS works just fine. 8 of the 11 elevators are working properly with the remaining ones expected to be functional by the end of the year.

  131. A123 says: • Website
    @Badger Down

    The Japan government limit on Tritium is not scientifically grounded. The water in 390 of those tanks would immediately be labelled safe for human consumption in any other country.

    There is a great deal of good science and objective information available here:

    https://www.hiroshimasyndrome.com/fukushima-accident-updates.html

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

  132. Thim says:

    I am friends with a lot of flips, and this incident has them flipped out. They are worried about the incompetence, and our ability to protect them from the Chiangs.

    I always give the same answer. Don’t look to us, look to Moscow. They can protect you.

    Duterte went to Moscow, but made no deal. He genuinely hates all white people, that is the problem. Hopefully soon to be President Marcos will do what needs to be done.

  133. @TG

    Or maybe the elites don’t care. Being feudal lords over a vast and impoverished nation would likely suit them very well.

    I think it’s increasingly clear that global depopulation is the primary goal.
    A Swiss sized industrial base would probably keep them and their house slaves in the luxury to which they’re accustomed.

  134. Smith says:
    @The Alarmist

    No, if they know or even catch a whiff, you will they propose their own theory like the one with the Ft. Detrick virus.

    This time, they are making editorial articles and even creating online petition asking for the US to come clean without anything to show. This means even they don’t know what’s going on.

  135. What the navy isn’t saying is that the USS Connecticut was the first nuclear submarine to be manned with a completely woke and diverse crew. The crew had turned off the sonar because they didn’t like the sound of it and had constant rap music playing instead. The music was playing so loud that they didn’t even know that they had hit something. The captain, Jell O’ Washington was sleeping under the influence of alcohol and crack and has no recollection of the incident. Chief electrician Lamont Sandford suspected something was wrong when the rap music stopped and he went to investigate. Looking at the meters, he quickly came to the conclusion that there was no A.C. or D.C. and that the rap music would not be returning soon, much to the consternation of the crew. All was not lost however as some Filipino pearl divers noticed the submarine in about 50 feet of water and called the nearest authorities..

    • LOL: acementhead
  136. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jim Christian

    I certainly did not imply there was any suspense in the matter. Just the opposite: I have clearly stated my point in the last paragraph, which is the same point I have been clearly stating for several years.
    A point that has recently been affirmed by the Chinese foreign minister that Russia and China are not just allies but that they are “more than allies.”

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  137. @Badger Down

    Think of the money you’d save. Keep a few ships patrolling the US coasts. You know, defence!

    The navy needs to adjust its goals to its level of competence.

    The could start by patrolling the Rio Grande, that would be an achievement.

  138. utu says:
    @skrik

    How Russian Propaganda Spread From a Parody Website to Fox News
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/07/world/europe/anatomy-of-fake-news-russian-propaganda.html

    In the days after the incident in the Black Sea, a Russian writer named Dmitri Sedov wrote an opinion piece, apparently meant to be satirical, that imagined the incident as an electronic warfare attack and described the panicked reaction of one crew member.

    In an apparent attempt to drive traffic to the satirical piece, a series of posts meant to look like a letter from the crew member went up on Facebook in English and Russian, with a link to the original.

    On April 15, 2017, the state-controlled Rossiya-1 broadcast a news report on the program “Vesti” about the 2014 incident, saying that as the plane approached the Cook, “it switched on the equipment, and powerful radio-electronic waves deactivated the whole ship’s systems.”

    FoxNews.com soon picked up The Sun’s version of the story. Refet Kaplan, the managing editor of FoxNews.com, said the story was considered “not as a serious report on Russia’s military capability, but as another example of Russian media hyperbole.”

    On April 19, two British tabloids, The Sun and The Daily Star, used sensational headlines to suggest that Russia possessed an “electronic bomb” capable of paralyzing the entire American Navy.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Joe Paluka
    , @skrik
  139. @Mr Blister

    The US is yet to fulfill its own sub requirements, and it is going to build them for Australia as well?

    We’re cranking out slightly over one Virginia class sub per year and have 19 in service, have three Seawolfs including the banged up one we’ve kinda been discussing, and have 28 very capable Los Angeles class attack subs still in service, all from the last two flights each with 12 VLS tubes. Plus four Ohio class SSBNs converted into SSGNs, each of which can carry well over 100 Tomahawk cruise missiles, plus the usual stuff than can be fired from torpedo tubes like torpedoes and Harpoon missiles. 49 currently operational boats are a significant number for a country not at war, even a real cold war yet, and without any peer maritime enemies (vs. “continental” ones that focus on land war and tend to be very iffy when it comes to the seas).

    While it appears the details are up in the air, as discussed here the AUKUS deal ultimately seems to be intended to supply Australia with black box reactors that use highly enriched uranium, that’s necessary to control their size and limit how often, if ever they need refueling. They’ll get more technical assistance, no doubt because there are a lot of things you can do with a nuclear powered sub that you can’t a Diesel/battery one. Like run totally submerged at high speed into a seamount….

    You can legitimately question Australia’s ability to economically make the rest of the subs (no doubt with a few components from other countries), but it’s a plan that makes sense, especially the way the PRC has been behaving under Xi. Nuclear attack subs are the most survivable conventional system to threaten to impose a ruinous cost on a country like the PRC in case of extremely hostile actions from it, the latter has to import by ship a great deal of its food and fuel, plus quite a few other things. The Australians are also not without technical talent, there’s no reason to believe they can’t learn how to operate the reactors.

  140. Open warfare with China is just what the doctor ordered. People need something to be afraid of besides Covid. People need something new to think about. War with China would be a relief. I’m sick of hearing Covid.

    • Agree: JohnnyGodYilmaz
  141. Das Boot(ed Out).

    The ludicrous Amerikastani Navy “explanation” as of yesterday is that the sub “hit an undersea mountain” due to “old maps.” Can anyone believe this? Either the Amerikastani Navy is too incompetent to provide its own sailors up to date navigation information and said crew, in peacetime when they’re not being hunted, in international waters, did not use active sonar to ‘see’ where they were going. This, by the way, being the crew of the Amerikastani Empire’s arguably only remaining truly world class military arm, its submarine fleet. Or something else happened which is deliberately being concealed, the most likely being that it was not where it was officially stated to be, but in Chinese territorial waters, where it didn’t have proper knowledge of the undersea topography and didn’t dare turn on its active sonar because that would give its position away. And as for what it hit, your guess is as good as mine.

    Of course, there is the possibility that the Amerikastani Empire is telling the truth, and that its sub crew really is that incompetent. The implications of that are probably more frightening than anything else.

    • Replies: @Notsofast
    , @Jiminy
  142. @mocissepvis

    That was his father, McCain senior, not the war criminal himself. For all I know the father was a perfectly decent human being.

    • Replies: @acementhead
  143. @That Would Be Telling

    replies that would be telling… When I made the comment … exactly like the new Gen IV reactor concept, I wanted readers to understand that I meant to say, the Th232 reactor core principles applied towards scaling up the current prototype reactor size and mega wattage. To build additional new generation facilities with uniformity in mind, as France currently does in its nuclear industry. Further, I did not mean to suggest that A-bomb making from spent core Thorium materials cannot be diverted and then re-processed by an extraordinary transmutation method (treatment with fast neutron sources) into some kind of atomic weaponry. However, it would carry prohibitive costs, requiring the cooperation of only the most skilled and experienced nuclear physicists and finally the entire diversion would be nowhere as practical and or easy as re-fabricating spent fuel components from a MOX reactor source

  144. @Mulga Mumblebrain

    The West isn’t “evil”. Predation is normal and natural. There’s no good and evil. Only weak and strong. They still think they are strong.

    I’m not saying we shouldn’t slaughtering them. But I am not going to pretend that’s something noble and good. That’s just the struggle of life. They way of life requires our slavery. I say their way of life and their lives should end.

  145. @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Help their survivors rebuild? Are you insane? That’s the one opportunity to end them once and for all. Destroy their infrastructure and loose even more diversity in there. Keep them in an endless cycle of chaos and violence and make sure their best and brightest are culled. Remember what the Jews about the best of the goyim needing to be killed.

  146. Ron Unz says:
    @utu

    How Russian Propaganda Spread From a Parody Website to Fox News

    …as the plane approached the Cook, “it switched on the equipment, and powerful radio-electronic waves deactivated the whole ship’s systems.”

    Very funny, and it rings true to me.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if other widely-held beliefs such as Flu Hoaxery, anti-Vaxxery, and QAnonism also originally began as political satires…

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @utu
    , @Rich
    , @Anon
  147. @A123

    You are talking about a navy that saw two of its destroyers crash into civilian ships in quick secession.

  148. Smith says:
    @Ron Unz

    It’s probably agency psyops from various countries, it’s how various superpower wage warfare through memes nowadays.

    Russia is unironically now hit with their own anti-vax psyop which explains their massive daily Corona death and low vax rate, despite the USSR being one of the most scientific-minded countries in the world. So sad.

  149. @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, as they say.

    For all I know the father was a perfectly decent human being.

    He most certainly wasn’t. He was the scumbag who ordered the Liberty c0ver-up investigation. The “investigation” was bizarre; just showing what a great job the crew had done, no investigation of why the attack took place, or the events outside the Liberty, in either Israel or the US fleet in the Mediterranean.

  150. Notsofast says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    agree, their story, that a mountain jumped in front of it and it just happened to take out their sonar dome and it’s ballast tanks forcing it to limp home on the surface with it’s tail between it’s legs, strains credulity. seems to be a message sent to the ozzies as well.

  151. @Tim1911

    Tyler Rogoway on War Zone site, debunked those criticisms in great detail. EMALS works just fine.

    Sorry, but I did some searching just now and this .mil article excerpt confirmed EMALS is “defective by design.” To repeat, you can’t de-energize only one catapult if that’s required to fix it, all must be brought down and “The inability to readily electrically isolate equipment precludes EMALS maintenance during flight operations.” It also confirmed the 1.5 hours required to spin down the motor-generators that power them, although that might be amenable to a fix in the physical space budget they have, unlike the need to find room for four or even two huge electrical switches.

    On the other hand I’m glad to see they didn’t excessively delay shock testing the Gerald Ford … except not all of those troublesome weapons elevators you mentioned were working during it (I assume the general problems with the elevators can get fixed on way or another sooner or later).

    Also found this very concerning paragraph aligned with the rumor I previously mentioned:

    Electromagnetic Compatibility

    • Developmental testing identified significant electromagnetic radiation hazard and interference problems. The Navy continues to characterize and develop mitigation plans for the problems, but some operational limitations and restrictions are expected to persist into IOT&E and deployment. The Navy will need to develop capability assessments at differing levels of system utilization in order for commanders to make informed decisions on system employment.

    That all but shouts that the ship has subsystems that radiate like a [expletive deleted] and not doing that is one key to its survivability against peer adversaries like the PRC. I guess we’d better get Raytheon cranking out SM-3s and SM-6s as fast as is reasonable (members of the Standard Missile family that are or include Anti-Ballistic Missile capability), hope our ASW is up to snuff, and the various defenses on the carriers work for real (besides the usual countermeasures like electronic ones and I assume chaff, two each Evolved SeaSparrow and Rolling Airframe Missile launchers, and three Phalanxes).

  152. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    “QAnonism” – Targeting secretly held wishes and fantasies works.

    Will QAnon fans believe anything? HUNDREDS of conspiracy theorists gather on grassy knoll where JFK was assassinated expecting his dead son JFK Junior to reappear and announce 2024 run with Trump

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10157959/QAnon-supporters-gather-grassy-knoll-await-JFK-Jr-announcing-2024-run-Trump.html

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  153. Pfizer and Fauci are killing Americans faster than China can.

    • Agree: Biff
  154. denk says:

    The day USN bullied a lighthouse

    Americans: This is the Captain of a US Navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR course.
    Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course.
    Americans: This is the aircraft carrier USS Lincoln, the second largest ship in the United States’ Atlantic fleet. We are accompanied by three destroyers, three cruisers and numerous support vessels. I demand that YOU change your course 15 degrees north, that’s one five degrees north, or countermeasures will be undertaken to ensure the safety of this ship.
    Canadians: This is a lighthouse. Your call.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20160513003637/https://www.thatsnonsense.com/navy-boat-captain-lighthouse-keeper/

  155. Jiminy says:

    Here in my neck of the woods we are always being bombarded with hyped up views on the health of the great barrier reef, which apparently is always in the decline. Farmers allowing run-off pollution to fill the rivers, which lead to the reef. Every week there seems to be a new threat to the health of the reef, and conversely to the health and future of the planet.
    But now the great liar, chairman Morrison, will be overseeing the transit of nuclear submarines through the world heritage park. I remember well the political theatre when a foreign container vessel ran aground years ago scarring the reef, but now one can only guess how a nuclear incident will be handled. Do we have to prepare ourselves for a similar attack as to that on the rainbow warrior by the French back in 1985, because of conflicting views on the need of nuclear power in the pacific?

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  156. @utu

    That story probably had more propaganda value for the Russians than if they had spent millions of dollars themselves. I also remember another part of the story saying that it spooked the naval personnel so much that when the ship docked in Romania, about 100 US naval personnel resigned their posts.

    • Replies: @utu
  157. @denk

    Just to show the superiority of the US military to anything else in the world, they probably sent in planes to bomb the lighthouse into the stone age for having the temerity to speak back to a USN captain.

    • Replies: @denk
  158. denk says:
    @Joe Paluka

    It’d be funny if it isnt so tragic.

    gringo at play

    When US sub sunk a jap fishing boat,

    DAMN THOSE GAIJIN!

    As hopes faded that the missing Japanese fishing students and their two teachers would ever be found, the families of the lost ones and the Japanese government appealed to the US to raise the Ehime Maru and recover the bodies, but US officials refused to even consider it: National Transportation Safety Board investigator John Hammerschmidt declared that he saw no reason at present to raise the ship. Reuters reported that “he did not believe it was necessary to bring the ship up to discover accident details, but he added he might change that view as the probe progressed.” Once again the barbarous gaijin had demonstrated their unreconstructed barbarity for all the world to see! Savages – – at least, the modern kind – do not take death very seriously, because for them human life is cheap – especially the lives of those they consider enemies, or, in this case, former enemies. And what, after all, are nine Japanese in the face of nearly 5,000 children a month who die in Iraq as a direct result of the US-imposed sanctions? What with the perpetual bombing, we knock off more than nine Iraqis in a few hours!

    https://www.antiwar.com/justin/j022301.html

    Raimondo RIP
    somebody should do an autopsy on the man.

  159. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @xyzxy

    An underwater cliff is what I heard.

  160. @raga10

    2) I thought France was one of the “good guys”??? Ahhh except when they get in the way of Anglo dominance – huh? Give us a break – Slick Morrison claims he tried to speak to Macron two days before the AUKUS deal was announced. that’s pathetic… And bleeding dry??? The AUKUS deal will be far more expensive so that makes zero sense

    3) A nuclear sub is not a easy bake oven… it’s not a “set it and forget it”. it requires HIGH technical competence and maintenance. only a handful of countries have that capability. They did indeed find a loop-hole… But the AUKUS countries shouldn’t cry when other state actors they don’t like find their way to exercise that loop-hole.

    • Replies: @raga10
    , @Resartus
  161. d dan says:
    @raga10

    “this accident has absolutely nothing to do with propulsion of the submarine”

    You may be right. But the accident reminds Australia that nuclear submarine is much more complicated and expensive to operate and maintain. Secondly, it calls into questions about the competency of the most “respected” service of the most “respected” department of the entire US government (e.g. as can be seen in many comments in this thread). Finally, nuclear sub accident has the additional risk of nuclear leak. OK, may be you are right, Australia (or US) won’t care about nuclear leak in other people’s backyard. China and ASEAN are responsible for the cleanup if needed.

    “France is definitely not laughing”

    Again, you may be right that US and UK follow the contract to the dot. But I am laughing if you think France is not laughing due to the bitter and humiliating termination of the contract.

    “That’s why Australia will be able to… without breaking non-proliferation treaties”

    Good to learn new rule in the “rule-based order” everyday. Now please tell whether China and Russia can sell similar sub to Cuba, Venezuela, Iran and North Korea.

    • Replies: @raga10
  162. @Tim1911

    So what is taking so long to get that carrier functional??? Trust me – that “War Zone” has good stuff – but it is certainly not right all the time – and certainly is not unbiased. Don’t trust everything in biased reporting.

  163. @Hbd investor

    And what of super-cavitating torpedoes?

    • Replies: @Hbd investor
  164. @denk

    I don’t think it’s real. Unless American carrier groups have a habit of harassing lighthouses all over the world.

    • Replies: @denk
  165. @Jiminy

    The Great Barrier Reef had never bleached in hundreds, probably thousands, of years (as we can see from coral cores)until 1998. It has bleached, with increasing severity and extent, several times since, including three times in the last five years. It is caused by ocean heating, increasing sea-water acidity (both caused by the emissions of greenhouse gases)and pollution. Just why the Dunning-Krugerites continue to deny reality is one for the animal psychologists, I suppose.

  166. @utu

    Even you, utu, must know that QAnon is an FBI or some other Deep State psy-op, like ‘Antifa’ etc. These may even have been actors or FBI ‘sources’, like the ring-leaders on January 6.

  167. utu says:
    @Joe Paluka

    I also remember another part of the story saying that it spooked the naval personnel so much that when the ship docked in Romania, about 100 US naval personnel resigned their posts.

    Which you did believe, right? People who have proclivity for conspiratorial theorizing tend to be suckers for counter-mass media fake narratives while at the same time priding themselves that they are very savvy media readers themselves and see more than what the sheeple do so they lack an important part of critical self-directed thinking faculty. No wonder that Lubyanka and Olgino will be targeting rightoids because that’s where they get the best traction cheaply whether it is about the ineptitude of the US Navy or vaccines that are about to kill you. Here is pre-covid example:

    Weaponized Health Communication: Twitter Bots and Russian Trolls Amplify the Vaccine Debate.

    Published online 2018 October. doi: 10.2105/AJPH.2018.304567

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6137759/

    • Replies: @Joe Paluka
    , @Max Edge
  168. Rich says:
    @Ron Unz

    Not sure what you mean by “anti-Vaxxery”. The covid shot is an experimental drug that was rushed to the public without the usual testing and without any idea of the long term effects. Prominent, well credentialed scientists and doctors have made the case that there may be dangerous side effects to this drug. No one will know for several years, although we should have a better idea by spring. It took 5 years with Thalidomide. The Lancet recently published a report showing these experimental drugs have little efficacy, do not prevent one from catching, spreading or getting sick from covid. Not wanting to take part in an experimental drug trial doesn’t put one on the same level as a Qanon believer.

  169. Jiminy says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    Maybe the Chinese have a “flipper” class of subs that they can deliberately use to ram a vessel without fearing too much damage to their own sub. Flipper used to ram those devious sharks side on, aiming for the gills, the shark’s weak spot. Those tricky Chinese did the same thing up in the Himalayas when they were clubbing the Indians. Why start with guns and grenades when sticks and stones prevent escalation. Ramming the opposition’s sub, can it be proved that it wasn’t accidental? It would be a clever ploy.

  170. @The Alarmist

    They don’t know where they hit the Chinese tramp steamer, after they surfaced, the captain realized that he had forgotten to put new batteries in his Garmin GPS. He told his crew that they could be anywhere between Bremerton or Bangalore. Lucky for them, and Australian navy ship by the name of HM Pommy Bastard was only a mile astern. The Captain signaled to them and they got towed into Darwin. After his conversation with his commanding officer and telling him about the accident with the Chinese tramp steamer, Admiral Pushover said, “Tell them you hit an uncharted seamount, and tell the crew if anything of this incident is leaked, they will be charged with treason and shot, and their families will be sent to Guantanamo!”

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  171. denk says:
    @The_MasterWang

    There’r various edition, like,
    USN bullies a Spanish lighthouse….

    If it is satire its a good one,
    Thats what one’d expect from uncle chutzpah…

    Unless American carrier groups have a habit of harassing lighthouses all over the world.

    FUKUS [fuck UK, US] have been picking fight at China’s doorstep since time immemorial.

    gawd damned seven CBG up the Yangtze and the sob scream ‘Chinese aggression’. !

    https://web.archive.org/web/20070312192600/http://www.unknownnews.net:80/040720tauntingchina.html

    somebody should do an autopsy on Johnson

    • Replies: @The_MasterWang
  172. raga10 says:
    @showmethereal

    I thought France was one of the “good guys”???

    I try to be objective; France is one of the good guys most of the time, but when it does something I don’t approve of, I will say it too.

    And bleeding dry??? The AUKUS deal will be far more expensive so that makes zero sense

    It will be more expensive, but at least on paper it will deliver top product as well. With the French deal Australia was getting semi-competent product that was semi-suited for Australian conditions, costing far too much and delivered far too late. It was not a good deal for Australia and I’m glad that for once Australian government had the balls to pull the plug on it. I only wish they had displayed similar resolve with the disastrous F-35 deal.

    A nuclear sub is not a easy bake oven… it’s not a “set it and forget it”.

    It might require maintenance but Australia is not Afghanistan – it can do maintenance. What it can’t do is refueling, but with these reactors it won’t need to.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  173. denk says:
    @Z-man

    Aint this creep one of those who keep blaming it on the Jew’s wars, ‘we’r fighting all Israel’s wars’ ??

    • Replies: @Z-man
  174. raga10 says:
    @d dan

    Again, you may be right that US and UK follow the contract to the dot.

    What I said had nothing to do with US and UK. I said that Australia followed terms of the contract it had with France.

    Now please tell whether China and Russia can sell similar sub to Cuba, Venezuela, Iran and North Korea.

    I have no idea, but I would not dismiss that possibility either. Does Russia or China offer nuclear reactors that don’t require refueling? I simply don’t know.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  175. raga10 says:
    @denk

    It’s a joke, told in countless variations and about as old as navies and lighthouses themselves.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  176. @utu

    No, I remember thinking at the time it was too good to be true and technically impossible with present technology. Military hardware is shielded and hardened to a high degree to protect it from EMP blasts.

    • Agree: utu
  177. @acementhead

    I knew nothing about the father, but thanks

    • Replies: @acementhead
  178. ivan says:
    @utu

    Thanks sir.
    Russian bullshit smells the same as any other. From the article :

    these (ie faking posts on Facebook) posts have a number of common features.

    They are couched as a letter to “My favorite Mary” (likely a direct translation of Russian любимая, meaning either “beloved” or “favorite”) from a Cook crew member called “Johnny.” They are written in what is obviously non-native English, probably machine translated (“We thrice cried ‘hip-hip hurrah’ and prepared to show the Russians that awaits them if they raise their hand for the second half of Ukraine”

    LOL!!

  179. ivan says:
    @Badger Down

    How ancient is this tsunami marker? Did any alive recall this? It is very easy to say things in hindsight, but I recall that when the Christmas tsunami of 2004 took anywhere upto 400,000 lives no one, not even from Japan sounded the alarm that there would be deaths from drowning as far away as Djibouti(?). A 12 or 18 hour notice would have saved anywhere upto an hundred thousand lives in Indian and Sri Lanka alone. Dai-Ici (number ONe) reactor was built as far up as the Japanese memory of these things. Now of course everyone would be building away from rivers, but in those days (1960) rivers were simply too attractive as sources of cooling waters.

    • Replies: @Badger Down
  180. Anon[168] • Disclaimer says:

    ““When elephants fight, it is the grass that gets trampled.” Old Thai saying. If you aren’t strong enough, just watch the show…

  181. The Tsunami weapon does not require a submarine to devastate all of the coasts of the USA.

    Ageing freighters sunk with a few thouand tons of ANFO or better explosives.

    The example of the San Francisco inspires!

    The USA is uniquely vulnerable with maybe only Singapore more vulnerable

  182. @Joe Paluka

    How long before some pins it on Israel?

  183. @That Would Be Telling

    I stand corrected. Thank you for the interesting context.

    • Thanks: That Would Be Telling
  184. @That Would Be Telling

    Thank you for the detailed example of the USS San Francisco.
    It will be illuminating whether this current collision receives the same amount of public detail.

    • Thanks: That Would Be Telling
  185. Max Edge says:
    @utu

    People who have proclivity for conspiratorial theorizing tend to be suckers for counter-mass media fake narratives while at the same time priding themselves that they are very savvy media readers themselves and see more than what the sheeple do so they lack an important part of critical self-directed thinking faculty.

    The MSM has really been hammering the NPCs hard lately with this projection.

    I guess the more obvious this is of normies, the harder they must project onto “conspiracy theorists”.

  186. @raga10

    Yes. It is a joke like the International School story, but each carries a moral story.

  187. @TimeTraveller

    You obviously don’t keep up. Almost every advance of Chinese military technology has been a result of espionage and theft. Their subs are not quiet, even though they started using natural circ reactors years ago (as a result of students graduating from US universities and the theft of plans).

    The Reds are being hypocritical, as usual. The West Philippine Sea (south China sea) is not theirs and the sub had as much right to be there as anyone else. The most likely thing they hit was a sunken ship. We sank hundreds of Japanese merchant ships in the West Philippine Sea during ww2. Most of those wrecks are uncharted. To assert the Conn hit a Red Chinese drone is a very large jump to a conclusion that does not fit the data.

  188. @Zachary Smith

    The US isn’t having to look for trouble. China is an aggressor in the West Philippine Sea, and Russia is asserting itself in the middle east and Africa.

    • Troll: Showmethereal
    • Replies: @denk
    , @Badger Down
  189. @Mulga Mumblebrain

    I addressed supercavitatating torpedoes in a earlier post

    There is currently no usage for supercavitating torpedoes

    They have 1/3rd the range of a regular torpedo, regularly miss because of no active homing they can’t use sonar for homing because they are faster than sound, and will always give away the shooters position which means in any actual battle a enemy ship or sub will immediately fire back

    There’s no such thing as torpedo interceptors (all prototypes have failed) once one is fired you are boned

    • Replies: @Badger Down
  190. @Rich

    All the experts stated that covid was going to be endemic through to being rna based, having an incredibly high mutation rate, and a simplistic attack vector.

    And that it was going to be influenza 2.0, an endemic disease that mutates too quickly making flu vaccines pretty much useless

    Spanish flu, swine flu, bird flu h1n1, the flu all of these are just different mutations for influenza

    Also the human immune system has a limited memory. So it is not recommended to get a flu shot if you are young and healthy.

    There is also evidence that the vaccines are triggering viral escape immunity and antibody dependent enhancement

    A vaccine never really made sense in the first place , and it would only result in more variants and now we are facing alpha, beta, gamma, delta, mu, lambda etc….

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  191. @Jiminy

    This is quite possibly the dumbest reply on this post

    Sub vs sub combat takes place miles away from each other

    With both subs being pretty much blind and crawling around extremely slowly and trying to guess where the other person is based on your own movement and the other subs movement

    The moment you fire the other sub will blind fire back, because whoever shoots first wins

    Imagine two blindfolded guys fighting each other, with grenades as a weapon all while birds and the environment is making all sorts of noises

    Charging towards an enemy sub at high speed is pretty much the dumbest thing you can do, as they will always fire on you since you gave your position away

    And a submarine crew cares more about not dying

    • Replies: @Jiminy
  192. @Rich

    The covid shot is an experimental drug that was rushed to the public without the usual testing and without any idea of the long term effects.

    Long before now everything you say here was proven to be a lie, except that we didn’t, couldn’t and still can’t know how many boost doses would be required, that’s the only thing left that’s “experimental” about them plus of course the possibility of variants becoming dominant that severely escape vaccine immunity, we can only predict this is possible.

    “Without the usual testing” is a blood libel. “Long term effects” just exposes your gross ignorance about how vaccines work vs. your small molecule drug example of thalidomide (TL;DR: vaccines do their job of prompting immune system response quickly, so you know their safety profile in less than two months).

    The Lancet recently published a report showing these experimental drugs have little efficacy, do not prevent one from catching, spreading or getting sick from covid.

    1) citation, please, and 2) are you really serious about citing that notorious back in the 1980s rag??? Plus you conspicuously omit what 1-2 doses of them do for preventing severe illness and death, people like you literally want hundreds of thousand more Americans to have died of COVID, and many times that to be maimed, including a lot of delayed deaths.

    Not wanting to take part in an experimental drug trial doesn’t put one on the same level as a Qanon believer.

    It was entirely reasonable to not want to be first as these vaccines went from Phase III trials to Phase IV “post-marketing,” the math of no more than 23K getting vaccinated in the former which are about as big as they get means you won’t find the rare adverse effects until the latter has dosed hundreds of thousands to millions of people. And so we did find them for all three US authorized vaccines. Plus looking just now I find for example only one anaphylactic reaction in Pfizer/BioNTech’s FDA advisory committee briefing, but that’s assumed to be a severe adverse effect for all vaccines. Any of you who as adults got seasonal flu vaccines or TDaP boosters will remember being told to wait 15 minutes before leaving.

    So with all this evidence almost a year after the mRNA vaccine companies submitted their EUA applications to the FDA you studiously ignore, or in the case of The Lancet article likely misinterpret the data, making you in the general area of a Qanon believer. To the point you and your brethren have scored the worst own goal in US political history since Watergate. And thus all this being obvious enough to our sane host, who’s predisposed to view things like this as conspiracies.

    • Troll: roonaldo
    • Replies: @Rich
  193. Resartus says:
    @showmethereal

    2) I thought France was one of the “good guys”???

    You mean the country that bombed a Green Peace boat that was looking into France’s
    Nuclear Test areas in the Pacific…..

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  194. skrik says:
    @utu

    My research of today:

    1) Apr’14 “Pentagon: Russian fighter jet repeatedly flew over US destroyer in Black Sea”
    https://www.rt.com/news/pentagon-destroyer-russian-jet-428/

    2) Sep’14 “What spooked the USS Donald Cook so much in the Black Sea?”
    http://www.voltairenet.org/article185860.html

    Quotes: {Meanwhile, the Russian Su-24 that buzzed the USS Donald Cook carried neither bombs nor missiles but only a basket mounted under the fuselage, which, according to the Russian newspaper Rossiyskaya Gazeta [2], contained a Russian electronic warfare device called Khibiny.

    Since that incident, which the Atlanticist media have carefully covered up despite the widespread reactions sparked among defense industry experts, no US ship has ever approached Russian territorial waters again.
    According to some specialized media, 27 sailors from the USS Donald Cook requested to be relieved from active service.}

    3) [the purported ‘debunk’] 12May’17 “Fake Russian EW attack unmasked”
    https://defensesystems.com/articles/2017/05/12/fakeew.aspx

    1st Q: What took so bloody long? Some could laugh for ~3 years at least!

    Quotes: {At issue in the days after the incident in the Black Sea were unsubstantiated claims in Russia print and social media that a Su-24 aircraft “equipped with the latest electronic warfare complex, Khibiny,” had managed to jam and shut down the Cook’s radars along with other electronic systems. Among other findings, the researchers discovered that the Khibiny is not installed on Russian Su-24 aircraft.

    “The Khibiny manufacturer itself had already debunked the story,” the U.S. researchers concluded. “This is either a disastrous failure of due diligence, or deliberate deception.” Most experts agree it was the latter.}

    Note the time gap = ~3 years, from ‘event’ to purported ‘debunk;’ did Thierry Meyssan/Voltaire ‘make it up’ or is the debunk just more of the ‘standard narrative’ ZUSA lies?

    Note the comparison between Meyssan and the purported ‘debunk;’ namely “a basket mounted under the fuselage” vs. “Khibiny is not installed on Russian Su-24;” could both be true?

    IF I was a betting person THEN my \$s would go on Meyssan, calling the purported debunk as bullshít, a ‘typical’ example of the ZUSA mighty Wurlitzer. Anyway, I’m still laughing.

    • Replies: @utu
  195. @raga10

    Now please tell whether China and Russia can sell similar sub to Cuba, Venezuela, Iran and North Korea.

    I have no idea, but I would not dismiss that possibility either. Does Russia or China offer nuclear reactors that don’t require refueling? I simply don’t know.

    The latter is entirely possible since we can do it given reasonable constraints, but I wonder if these two countries can offer reactors that are Third World operator idiot proof for all the the last one or two counties listed. Surely Putin and company don’t want “ANOTHER CHERNOBYL!!!” trope, which would start as soon as such a concept is mentioned or learned about. And I’m not sure Iran really needs them because their location north of the Strait of Hormuz gives them many of the options the other countries might be interested in.

    • Replies: @raga10
    , @Showmethereal
  196. Rich says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    [This isn’t a Covid/Vaxxing thread.]

    Almost a year? Wow, that’s a long time. No drug was ever found to cause dangerous side effects after a year, right? I’m not sure what your game is, you appear to look at one side of the issue and give no heed to the thousands of well credentialed scientists and doctors who say there will be dangerous side effects from this drug. And you’re not even familiar with the Lancet study released a week ago.

    [MORE]
    Look, you’ve made up your mind that this experimental mrna drug is a godsend. Bully for you. I actually hope you’re right because I have friends and family members who gave into the propaganda and decided to participate in this drug trial. But there are too many very knowledgeable folk who disagree with you and your stance. The death rate from covid is so low that there was never any reason to subject such a huge portion of the population to this experiment, and to force people to take an experimental drug is a serious violation of basic human rights. But hey, your stock went up, so all is well.

    • Agree: Notsofast
  197. @Hbd investor

    [This isn’t a Covid/Vaxxing thread.]

    All the experts stated that covid was going to be endemic through to being rna based, having an incredibly high mutation rate, and a simplistic attack vector.

    And that it was going to be influenza 2.0, an endemic disease that mutates too quickly making flu vaccines pretty much useless

    [You’re not wrong about major flu varieties.]

    Also the human immune system has a limited memory. So it is not recommended to get a flu shot if you are young and healthy.

    There is also evidence that the vaccines are triggering viral escape immunity and antibody dependent enhancement

    A vaccine never really made sense in the first place , and it would only result in more variants and now we are facing alpha, beta, gamma, delta, mu, lambda etc….

    It’s impressive when all but two things you say are bald faced lies.

    [MORE]
    For your claim about “triggering viral escape immunity” that hasn’t happened yet, especially for all of the Greek letter named variants. You only list the ones that are currently variants of concern or interest, but this is also true of the former ones of interest, every single one popped up before vaccine campaigns began. It will very possibly happen sooner or later, but it would also happen if we let the virus rip through populations and kill tens of millions more people. Your ADE claim needs some citation of your claimed evidence for it.

    Going back and starting from the top, I’m not aware of any “expert” who made such claims about coronaviruses, because we have plenty of “eternal” vaccines against RNA viruses that lack the unique proofreading mechanism the coronaviruses have that prevents it from mutating as fast as any others. You completely misunderstand what makes flu special among the viruses we make vaccines for, it’s that we just can’t find a way to get our immune systems to target one or more “conserved” part of of the virus.

    That is, they can’t change or “the virus won’t virus.” There’s plenty of evidence this is not true of coronaviruses, it may even play a role in who rolls snake eyes after exposure or getting infected, there’s a very strongly conserved section that as many as 30% of us have immunity against, presumably from previously getting one or more of the four strains that make up ~15% of the cases of “the common cold.” That said, when it comes to vaccines “we have not yet begun to fight,” the first generation ones we’re using now were based on just one approach to SARS type coronavirus vaccines that’s been studied since SARS popped up in 2002, and got urgency when MERS was discovered in 2012.

    You’re also completely wrong about the immune system’s memory, see the above, and one neat example of that was finding that survivors of the 1918-19 Spanish Flu tested in the last few decades still remembered it. You’re also wrong about the usefulness of flu vaccines, besides how well old people react to them, for which we now have varieties with four times the normal dose of virus surface protein antigens, experts guess in the spring for the Northern Hemisphere what strains will be dominant months later. Obviously they sometimes get this wrong, especially with 3-4 that we target.

    So it’s garbage like this that prompts our host to dismiss anti-vaxxers, who for months now can only lie about what’s happening because the doom and failure they confidently predicted starting more than a year ago just isn’t happening.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  198. Anonymous[816] • Disclaimer says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    When you have little to nothing to say you go on to the attack as he stated most military types are not playing with a full deck, Korea Nam Iraq Afghanistan and a host of others is more than proof of that, as for the grunts they simply follow orders for they are simply cannon fodder to be used as the boys on top use as they see fit, as their lives mean nothing at all to them. And what are “those military things” or are you talking about G.I. Joe or some other comic book character, for you need to be more specific as to what “those things are”.

    • Agree: Showmethereal
  199. @Jiminy

    Are you suggesting the Sea Wolf class is in fact so inferior a submarine the Chinese had its exactly location pinpointed and was able to ram it head on?

  200. @denk

    Yes but naval aggression against lighthouses?

  201. @Quartermaster

    While it feels great to suggest non-White subhumans are incapable of technological advancement and must steal from your superior race you are implying Western security is so inept that the yellow subhumans, with their inferior intellect and complete absence of problem solving skills, were able to steal just about anything they want from you for decades, including technologies that you don’t have.

    • Replies: @Quartermaster
  202. @That Would Be Telling

    [This isn’t a Covid/Vaxxing thread.]

    Woops, I thought our host made it at least slightly so in his reply #151, and I didn’t realize that a moderator made the above annotation to Rich’s #201; I apologize.

    Maybe sign the above with something like “- Mod” so people who don’t know this yet will know the moderators don’t want us to respond?? You’re also welcome to delete my off topic replies.

  203. utu says:
    @skrik

    ” I’m still laughing.” – Read your Nikolai Gogol: “What are you laughing at? You are laughing at yourself.”

    The Russian fake in 2014 did not get a traction apart from rumor mongering sites like that of Meyssan, so the fake was ignored by MSM. But three years later Russian state controlled TV-1 Vesti channel doubled down on it and it was picked by western tabloids. So only then somebody decided to look into that nonsense and trace it back to the source which turned out to be a satire.

    Russia’s Fake “Electronic Bomb”
    How a fake based on a parody spread to the Western mainstream
    https://medium.com/dfrlab/russias-fake-electronic-bomb-4ce9dbbc57f8

    • Replies: @skrik
  204. @Rich

    There are many things they said were safe that a decade later “oh sorry this causes cancer”. Im not saying these mRNA treatments will do the same… But we just dont know. I agree the narrative that anti Covid mRNA means you are an anti vaxxer. Two separate things indeed.

  205. Jiminy says:
    @Hbd investor

    Going by China’s history of ramming surface ships with its own, I don’t think it’s such a big jump to suggest that this sort of action could take place under the surface as well. If the crew of the surface ship feels safe in their manoeuvre without fear of dying for the motherland, why would we assume that everything changes when below the waves.
    Forbes have a good story covering the massive, oddly shaped Chinese coast guard vessels that are being built specifically to muscle ships away from Chinese territory, as it’s a safer option than to send in grey warships, and possibly risk escalation. Until somebody sees the plans of a Chinese sub, who knows if this concept wasn’t extended to their design as well. And I would think that there are other types of sensors available to the crew besides sonar. There could be sniffers that detect nuclear isotopes, perhaps changes in water temperature and maybe ions in the water as well. If you can dream it, then they’ve probably already tried it. So I don’t think that they were two guys blindfolded risking starting a shooting war.
    And look up collisions involving subs. Whether they are deliberate or accidental, there are quite a few that are known and some that are presumed to be. Also I would not put it past the Chinese to have the sea bed in their territory seeded with some kind of early warning system. Having spent massive amounts on creating island bases why not have sensors on the sea bed to help in protecting them as well. And besides, how can duelling subs be miles apart if one collides into the other?

  206. @raga10

    I was being facetious about “good guys”.

    French subs are very competent. If Australia was really looking for DEFENSE there is absolutely NO REASON for them to have a nuclear powered subs. That is as farcical as saying you need a Porsche Cayenne Turbo to do errands around town. The fact is Australia is playing the fiddle for the US and will be sticking its nose in territorial issues that have nothing to do with Australia. They will be putting a target on their back as well for wanting to play in the “big boys club”. It makes no sense on any level to even impartial observers. They foolishly thought ASEAN would cheer them on when the largest ASEAN country – Indonesia (along with Malaysia) have been more vocal about it than the intended targets.

    Australia is not Afghanistan – but it is not a major power either. They would be better off just letting the US dock their subs full time in Australia instead of carrying on with this farce.

    • Replies: @raga10
  207. @Resartus

    Oh I was only goading rag because if you read his comments you would think no western nation does any wrong… France is just as grimy as the rest. Teaming up with the US to turn Libya into a blood bath is but the latest. I just find it comical to see him take the Anglo side over the Franco side where it is quite clear who is in the wrong. The justifications are just comedy

  208. dina says:
    @Anon

    The DC electronics, computers, radar, and all electronics crashed, leaving the DC “dead in the water”…
    I don’t know if this is what really happened but for sure this is a very likely explanation of the story

  209. Besides the submarine story, this article has a theme of how the US has been poking China. Unfortunately, the Chinese appear to have prepared for any necessary reply.

    China’s New Aircraft Carrier Killer Is World’s Largest Air-Launched Missile
    https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2020/11/chinas-new-aircraft-carrier-killer-is-worlds-largest-air-launched-missile/

    This monster air-launched missile can be launched outside the range of any defensive weapons. It’s difficult for me to understand why the US is still building carriers.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  210. anon[346] • Disclaimer says:

    What difference would it make for the citizens of the US to consider the implications of incidents like this? We do not have a representative government, we are essentially a colony with rulers that nakedly express hatred for the majority of the population. Any other nation wishing to apply pressure or otherwise influence US policy needs to exert those efforts on the people who make up that ruling regime. It is conceivable that our ruling regime is so depraved and hates us so much they may calculate that some kind of nuclear exchange would be a win-win scenario as long as they are able to avoid the direct consequences.

  211. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    But the problem is, with all the missiles they have developed, a blue water navy means little to nothing except a way to keep the MIC rolling in taxpayer cash.

  212. @Jiminy

    Only one case where subs have crashed and they were both running in quiet mode and harmlessly bumped into each other

    Sonar which are kind of like your ears

    If someone is creeping around slowly, it’s difficult to hear them but if they start running detection becomes extremely easy

    So in the above case two blindfolded guys armed with grenades were sneaking around and bumped into each other.

    They in no way tell you anything, it is not equivalent to having eyes

    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/35603/veteran-submariner-on-how-sonar-crews-tirelessly-hunt-enemies-they-cant-even-see

    Yes Sonar operators are just a bunch of guys listening on headphones

    If they detect a large metal object heading towards them at high speed they are going to shoot or dodge

    Designing a sub to ram other subs is stupid,

    anti torpedo, torpedoes also called torpedo interceptors have failed every practical test trying to hit another object while being blind doesn’t work

    Seems like a good idea right? Other guy shoots a torpedo, you shoot a smaller torpedo to intercept theirs

    Every country has experimented with this technology and failed

    It doesn’t work because Sonar != Radar , having eyes != having ears

    Making a blind guy trying to tackle another blind guy armed with grenades and is able to walk around without making any sound is even dumber

    Since subs will Typically stop moving the minute they hear anything that sounds like footsteps

    Do you realize how dumb you sound to anyone that has passed highschool physics?

  213. @Zachary Smith

    Anonymous[257] currently at #216, this addresses your issues, although perhaps not satisfactorily. Plus pirates.

    This monster air-launched missile can be launched outside the range of any defensive weapons.

    It’s nice if you can take out the launching aircraft, especially before it launches its payload, but that’s not in the least required to intercept a missile with “defensive weapons.” Is possibly in the remit of fighters, especially stealthy ones, which carriers do or will carry.

    It’s difficult for me to understand why the US is still building carriers.

    See comment #26 by Resartus, tanks were declared obsolete once effective anti-tank guided missiles (ATGM) were developed, but that didn’t come to pass, did it? Anti-ship missiles (AShM) have been a thing since 1943, and, well, for the future we just won’t know unless and until they and carriers groups with their multiple layers of defenses are put to the test. Which also includes first finding them, hence my concerns about the Gerald Ford class’ radio frequency emissions from all the electrical things in it, like its catapult system.

    Note I have every expectation the missiles will get through the first time or two because history in the Falklands War and at least one incident in or around the Persian Gulf shows ship commanders won’t get serious, like even bothering to turning on those defensive systems, until they’ve they’ve taken at least one hit (and there are good reasons to be careful with the automatic ones, Phalanxes have unintentional hit more than a few things, including an A-6 in an exercise with a Japanese ship).

    In the meantime they’re extremely useful for our ruling trash to impose their will on non-peer nations, plus do good things like help keep the Strait of Hormuz open. Just “a supercarrier has now been positioned somewhere off your shore” can have an salutary effect on rulers and their decisions. They’re also great for disaster response, with “nuclear powered water distillers,” plenty of space to store supplies, and a bunch of helicopters that can deliver both perhaps before land based aid can get there, see our tsunami responses.

  214. Derer says:
    @utu

    Sentiment of a delusional moron.

  215. raga10 says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    Surely Putin and company don’t want “ANOTHER CHERNOBYL!!!” trope

    Or “another Kursk” for that matter… yet there is a precedent: Russia leased out one of their nuclear submarines to India for a couple of years, and it was not a new sub by any means.

    By the way, some people claimed that Australia “found a loophole” with their sub. It’s not a loophole. Non-proliferation treaty concerns nuclear weapons, not nuclear power. Enriching uranium is naughty because enriched uranium is needed to make nuclear weapons. If Australia doesn’t do that it is staying not just true to the letter of the treaty, but to the spirit as well.

    • Thanks: That Would Be Telling
    • Replies: @d dan
  216. raga10 says:
    @Showmethereal

    French subs are very competent.

    Barracuda class on which this design was supposed to be based is a nuclear submarine and it is supposed to be very good. But there are two caveats: one, being based on something doesn’t mean a lot when it comes to weapons. Soviets and now Russia have often sold weapons with the same designations as their domestic versions, but severely downgraded in their capabilities compared to what they use. USA is guilty of that too: F-16 they sold to Iraq are an excellent example; they had F-16 badge but they were so dumbed down they could barely match Mig-21s that were about 50 years old by then.
    So just because French nuclear sub is capable, it doesn’t mean their export, non-nuclear version would be.

    Second, that non-nuclear version doesn’t actually exist, except as a concept. They still had to actually design it, so this was not just a “I’ll take that sub in the window” deal, it was a development deal. Which is why it had a bail-out clause.
    But things were not going well, the program was running into cost and time overruns already, before construction even started! So Australia used the bail-out clause, as was their right.

    If Australia was really looking for DEFENSE there is absolutely NO REASON for them to have a nuclear powered subs.

    The reason is large distances. Nuclear power allows the sub to travel at higher speeds over large distances while submerged, important advantage over conventional design that doesn’t matter much in the Baltic, but sure makes a difference in the Pacific.

    They would be better off just letting the US dock their subs full time in Australia instead of carrying on with this farce.

    Arguably true, but then you’d just cry and whine like a little bitch about Australia letting USA use their facilities.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  217. d dan says:
    @raga10

    “Non-proliferation treaty concerns nuclear weapons”

    Blah, blah, blah. So a nuclear sub is not a WEAPON. Nice to know that Australia is using those sub to fetch tourists.

    “If Australia doesn’t do that it is staying not just true to the letter of the treaty, but to the spirit as well.”

    Please tell why Iran is not even allowed to develop their own nuclear power plant – which is not a weapon by all definition of the word? Why is “maximum pressure” needs to be applied?

    Also, if you don’t know what would be US and its vassal states’ reaction if China/Russia sell nuclear sub to Iran/Cuba/Venezuela/North Korea, then I am overestimating your intelligence.

    • Replies: @raga10
    , @Avery
    , @Corrupt
  218. skrik says:
    @utu

    Here’s a ‘nice’ expression for you:

    Pushing shít uphill with a pointed stick

    One problem with ZUSA is that they have zero credibility, from H&N through the JFK assassination, 9/11 ‘inside-job’, Iraq’s [non-existent] WMDs and now SARS-CoV-2 [most likely ZUSA-sourced & -released near WIV to implicate Dr. Shi/CCP], ZUSA can never admit that some covert cabal within the ZUSA rogue-regime are perpetrators of all those atrocities and more. So really, we can’t lend any credibility whatsoever to anything they say, like in this purported Khibiny hoax, ZUSA could never admit to being ever so slightly wrong, let alone being ‘bested’. And why are they so coy about the damaged USS Connecticut?

    Having said all that, Joe Paluka said he thought “it was too good to be true” but I’d go further, to say that IF Russia could block USS Sitting Duck’s radar THEN they’d hardly advertise the fact.

    Here’s another nice expression for you:

    Up shít creek without a paddle, in a barbed-wire canoe

    That’s ZUSA.

    • Thanks: denk
    • Replies: @utu
  219. @That Would Be Telling

    Russia leased India a nucelar sub before… Now because of AUCKUS you can expect to see more.
    Just as Iran doesnt need them – neither does Australia except to be a busy body “water carrier”

  220. raga10 says:
    @d dan

    So a nuclear sub is not a WEAPON. Nice to know that Australia is using those sub to fetch tourists.

    Stop being obtuse. Sub is a weapon system. Nuclear weapon is what uses nukes to go ‘boom!’

    Please tell why Iran is not even allowed to develop their own nuclear power plant

    It’s unfortunate and I think they should be. I don’t make US foreign policy, and in this case I don’t defend it.

    if you don’t know what would be US and its vassal states’ reaction if China/Russia sell nuclear sub to Iran/Cuba/Venezuela/North Korea

    I think it would be the same as China’s reaction to Australian deal, but again, I don’t make foreign policy, I can only tell you my opinion. In my view, Cuba and Venezuela can arm themselves as much as they want… I do think that maybe they should feed themselves first, but hey, whatever floats their boat… I suppose if you have enough weapons you can persuade your neighbours to feed you, so maybe there is some logic to that 🙂

    As for Iran, it mostly presents problems for other middle-eastern states and if that lot want to kill each other I’m all in favour of selling them all the weapons they can afford to buy, then extending them a generous line of credit so they can buy some more.

    And North Korea is a problem just because of their nuclear weapons, it doesn’t really matter what propulsion they use in their subs.

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @anon
  221. Avery says:
    @d dan

    {Please tell why Iran is not even allowed to develop their own nuclear power plant }

    Didn’t you know?
    Anglo-Americans — or as Churchill called his peoples “The English Speaking Peoples” — have magic juice called The Manifest Destiny, which gives them God-license to lecture everyone and his brother all over the world about International Law, Rules, blah, blah, blah, while they routinely break* any and all laws and do as they please.

    ________________________________
    * E.g. the Chilcot Report finally admitted that the US & UK invasion and destruction of Iraq was ILLEGAL. Of course, because of Manifest Destiny neither war criminal Blair nor war criminal Bush were charged with War Crimes. Not even close: both cretins are considered by the GloboWest hypocrites as ‘Statesmen’ (sic)

  222. @Jiminy

    Your last paragraph is already answered in terms of sensors. Buoys have beem operating on the surface for years that watch below (but not deep) the surface. You reference Forbes and i believe years ago they ran a story that it was all linked to China’s signals intelligence domes on the SCS outposts. In 2018 though China started on its sea bed network. We dont know the specifics in this case – but they are most certainly sensors there on the seabed.

  223. @That Would Be Telling

    Well I think you answered yourself regarding anti tank and anti ship missiles.. When fighting a peer it is a completely different ball game than fighting a foe where one can easily impose their will on….

  224. @That Would Be Telling

    Which also includes first finding them…

    That would definitely be the first issue. The problem is this: aircraft carriers are huge. They’re easily seen from space in both visible light and radar. The latter could detect them at night, and in bad weather. You mention the Task Force emissions. I don’t know, but it seems to me the escorts would need to have their radars on all the time. And there is this:

    CHINA’S ANTI-SHIP BALLISTIC MISSILE & THE LOST RQ-170 SENTINEL DRONE
    http://aviationintel.com/chinas-anti-ship-ballistic-missile-the-lost-rq-170-sentinel/

    The Chinese know how to do stealth perfectly well, and having one or more of these nearly invisible drones perched just barely above the horizon means the carrier task force could be watched in real time. Its location pinpointed. This author’s used the DF21 as his offensive weapon. That sucker would be very difficult to defend against, especially if it was carrying the standard decoys. Add to that the prospect of the hypersonic missile I previously linked, and I’ll stick with my contention the carrier and associated ships would be sitting ducks. Nukes wouldn’t be necessary at all, for while a large inert mass slamming into a ship at thousands of miles an hour might not sink it, but even if it survived it would no longer be good for anything except hopefully limping back to a friendly port.

    If nukes were in the mix, I can easily imagine that the DF21 would skip the decoys and simply release a pattern of tiny nuclear weapons in a shotgun shell pattern. Do you think any air defence we possess would be capable of taking out a dozen “Davy Crockett” type warheads coming down at thousands of miles an hour?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)

  225. d dan says:
    @raga10

    “Stop being obtuse. Sub is a weapon system.”

    So, a nuclear sub is a “nuclear weapon system” but not a “nuclear weapon”. Nice to know it depends on the meaning of the word “is” is. I mean it depends on the meaning of “system” is.

    You are the one who is being obtuse and try to be the apologist for the agreement-incapable, empire of warmongers and hypocrites.

    “I think it would be the same as China’s reaction to Australian deal”

    So, you really don’t know what US is capable and inclined of doing? US would react like China? LOL.

    • Replies: @raga10
  226. @raga10

    “But things were not going well, the program was running into cost and time overruns already, before construction even started”

    Are you going to try with a straight face going to try to claim the French defense industry is somehow less efficient and less cost effective than the US military industrial complex??? LOLOLOLOL… You had me going the other day. I thought you were really serious.

    “The reason is large distances. Nuclear power allows the sub to travel at higher speeds over large distances while submerged”

    Again that has nothing to do with Australia’s coastal DEFENSE. That is about being a US lackey to go stick it’s nose in waters that have nothing to do with Australia.

    “Arguably true, but then you’d just cry and whine like a little bitch about Australia letting USA use their facilities.”

    What a “little bitch” does is what you do – which is to resort to childish and sophomoric insults because your points get overturned. I reason like a grown man. And any grown man with half a brain knows this is about making money for the US Military Industrial Complex buy burdening Australian tax payers. Any grown man with half a brain knows that with all the spy stations that monitor the sky and the sea the US already has in Australia – that other US “secrets” are already in Australia. Go home and get your little treat.

    • Agree: d dan
    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
    , @raga10
  227. @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    Thank you.

    A ‘must read’; from Ward Boston, Jr., Captain, JAGC, USN (Ret.), lays it all out.

    https://fathersmanifesto.net/admiralmccain.htm

  228. Corrupt says:
    @d dan

    “Please tell why Iran is not even allowed to develop their own nuclear power plant”

    There’s a difference between a regular nuke power plant and a breeder reactor.

  229. @That Would Be Telling

    Tanks have not become useless just because anti-tank missiles exist but you clearly see they are no longer where the major development effort goes to. No major new MBT model in decades. Russia isn’t mass producing their new concept MBT.

    So probably the same will happen to surface capital ships.

  230. @showmethereal

    Well said-raga is such a troll beetch! The nuke subs for Austfailia, the USUK-A White Anglo Boys Club to Destroy the Yellow Peril, laugh, is all smoke and mirrors, peddled by liars. The spat between Morriscum and Macaroon is indicative of what a liar and cheap bully-boy Morriscum is. That he is a Pentecostal loonie like Bolsanaro, a member of a ‘church’ whose Fuhrer’s daddy was, alas, a kiddy-fiddler, adds further layers of excrement to the whole sordid farce. Imagine defending Macaroon!
    No subs will ever be built here. At present we graduate about FIVE (5) nuclear engineers a year, and, without Chinese student cash, our unis are decaying. The subs will be built by the USA, forget the UK, ‘loaned’ to us, but be mostly manned by US sailors, until ours are trained and indoctrinated properly.
    They will be based here, and probably in the north, which is being turned into a vast advanced base for the coming US attack on China. That the Indonesians have said that they will not allow nuke subs to pass through their waters, means that they will be ignored, or a puppet Suhart0-style regime installed in Jakarta.
    These are definitely not for ‘defense’. They will operate far from our waters, and in China’s. I see that a few fringe commenters in Austfailia have been allowed to state these obvious facts, but definitely not in the MSM sewer, a foaming hot-bed of race-hatred, Sinophobia and suicidal war-lust. This country is fucked beyond belief.

    • Agree: d dan
    • Replies: @showmethereal
  231. @Zachary Smith

    Perhaps the Chinese would first EMP a big Yankee dreadnought, and then offer some tugs to tow it back to port. A humane gesture, to defuse things.

    • Replies: @anon
  232. @Avery

    At the Chilcot farce, while giving his testimony, Blair openly advocated for an attack on Iran. His Zionazis owners (they have a nose for the worst Sabbat Goy psychopaths to buy)must have loved his Evil chutzpah. That he is not in Supermax doing a billion years without parole is testament to just how morally insane the West is.

  233. denk says:
    @Quartermaster

    gringo psycho,

    The US isn’t having to look for trouble

    How’d the world’s no 1 shit stirrer make a living except….stirring shit ?

    gringo at play, people die.
    [Ehime Maru]
    wait till you see gringo at work, its a blood bath.

    Looking for trouble

    Exhibit A
    2001
    FUS spy plane over Hainan

    No one in the media knows what caused the recent US-China standoff. Remember one of Colin Powell’s six rules for deceiving the media: “Don’t tell the whole story unless forced to do so.” History shows that the U.S. Navy lies about facts in almost every international incident.
    …………………………
    Chinese pilot died in the skirmish.

    Exhibit b

    USS Vincennes shot down a Iranian airliner...

    the U.S. military has established “zones of exclusion” near sensitive U.S. military installations and during major exercises in which international airspace laws are declared invalid. The Gulf of Sidra conflicts with Libya in the 1980s occurred whenever the U.S. 6th Fleet established a huge “zone of exclusion” just off the Libyan coast, and threatened any aircraft or ships that approached. In one incident, a hotdog Navy F-14 pilot shot down two Libyan Su-22s which were cruising off the coast. The Navy concocted a phony “dogfight” story in which an old Libyan Su-22 fired first and the Navy pilot became a hero. In 1988, the USS Vincennes shot down a Iranian airline which came within 12 miles of its self declared security zone. For the past ten years, the USA has mocked international law by unilaterally imposing “no-fly zones” over most of Iraq and parts of the Balkans.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20010811220238/http://www.g2mil.com/May2001.htm

    • Replies: @Quartermaster
  234. JamesinNM says:
    @Hbd investor

    Russia has supercavitating torpedoes that travel underwater at more than 60 knots

  235. @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Every nation has a right to defense… Australia purchasing diesel electric subs for coastal defense is a perfectly normal situation and solution… But this AUKUS thing is about imperialism dressed up with a bow-tie. What gets me is that the US and UK would stab a supposed NATO ally in the back so easily and they all try to defend it. Pretty disgusting… not that I feel bad for the French – but I don’t like backstabbers.

    Since you live in Australia – and didn’t seem to vote for Morrison – I offer my condolences on getting your tax dollars wasted…
    But yeah you are probably right… Wasn’t the guy who exposed the whole thing a few years ago an Australian would made “The Coming War on China”???

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  236. utu says:
    @skrik

    I understand that accepting that you have been fooled by Russian disinfo operation may take time and it seems you are just in the stage of anger which you project at the US. By all means keep ranting if it elevates your pain.

    The only true part of the USS David Cole Russian hoax is that two Russian jets flew over it several times. Everything else that you believed and still would like to believe was a hoax.

    • Replies: @skrik
  237. denk says:

    Carlton Meyer

    For the past ten years, the USA has mocked international law by unilaterally imposing “no-fly zones” over most of Iraq and parts of the Balkans.

    Whats wrong with NFZ to protect the Kurds from Saddam’s bombs you say ?

    Turns out FUKUS NFZ are exclusive private shooting range for their Turk buddies…

    For joining the US “coalition” against Iraq, the Turkish regime is to be rewarded with a bribe worth \$6billion. Turkey’s invasions are rarely reported in Britain. So great is the collusion of the Blair government that, virtually unknown to Parliament and the British public, the RAF and the Americans have, from time to time, deliberately suspended their “humanitarian” patrols to allow the Turks to get on with killing Kurds in Iraq.

    In March last year, RAF pilots patrolling the “no fly zone” in Kurdish Iraq publicly protested for the first time about their enforced complicity in the Turkish campaign. The pilots complained that they were frequently ordered to return to their base in Turkey to allow the Turkish air force to bomb the very people they were meant to be “protecting”.

    Speaking on a non-attributable basis to Dr Eric Herring, a senior lecturer in politics at Bristol University and a specialist on Iraqi sanctions, the pilots said whenever the Turks wanted to attack the Kurds in Iraq, RAF patrols were recalled to base and ground crews were told to switch off their radar – so that the Turks’ targets would not be visible. One British pilot reported seeing the devastation in Kurdish villages caused by the attacks once he had resumed his patrol.

    AMERICAN pilots who fly in tandem with the British, are also ordered to turn their planes around and turn back to Turkey to allow the Turks to devastate the Kurdish “safe havens”.

    You’d see Turkish F-14s and F-16s inbound, loaded to the gills with munitions,” one pilot told the Washington Post. “Then they’d come out half an hour later with their munitions expended.” When the Americans returned to Iraqi air space, he said, they would see “burning villages, lots of smoke and fire.”

    http://johnpilger.com/articles/the-secret-war-which-has-seen-a-300-per-cent-increase-in-bombing-raids-on-iraq

    • Replies: @Barr
  238. raga10 says:
    @d dan

    So, a nuclear sub is a “nuclear weapon system” but not a “nuclear weapon”.

    Damn right, a sub is not a nuclear weapon any more than a truck carting around a land-based nuclear missile is a nuclear weapon. Or do you think that non-proliferation of nuclear weapons treaty (that’s the full name) should now cover trucks as well?

    • Replies: @d dan
  239. raga10 says:
    @showmethereal

    I reason like a grown man.

    You don’t reason at all, you just parrot whatever the Chinese official line is. Reason me this: if Australia doesn’t need nuclear subs for defensive purposes, why does China?

    If you’re going to try to tell me that China needs to protect its sea trade routes, all I can say is, look at the fucking map of Australia first!

  240. sardar says:

    On Wednesday November 3rd, The US tried to steal Iranian Oil from their tanker, but Iranian denied the Evil empire to do so. The Evil Empire has gone MAAAAAAD.

    IRGC releases footage of confronting US piracy targeting Iranian oil in Sea of Oman

    Please watch the video of US piracy at the see at the following link:

    https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2021/11/03/669850/Iran-IRGC-confrontation-United-States-oil-piracy

    • Replies: @denk
  241. @raga10

    if Australia doesn’t need nuclear subs for defensive purposes, why does China?

    Not all non-whites believe that they should become “Indians” or “Aborigines.” That is also why the North Koreans want nukes. In time I-ran will also have it and nuclear subs.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  242. @raga10

    Why should Australia protect it’s trade routes to China from China? This seems absurd to the uninitiated. Those of us who has a deeper understanding of human nature knows the reason: Australia is answering the call to defend White Anglo supremacy from yellow usurpation, at great economic cost to itself. May include cost in human lives in the future as well. This is actually very noble of them, taking up this heavy burden in service to their race. If only a majority of the Chinese can do that without being coerced to.

    Doesn’t mean Australia shouldn’t be utterly destroyed and White Anglos purged from that part of the world, however, but a noble enemy is still noble. But the struggle for resources, lebensraum, and racial status is eternal.

    • Replies: @raga10
  243. anon[803] • Disclaimer says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    you are right. the problem is that the wounded shamed angry and already demoted and forgotten crew and admiral are also right. they believed the bs that the us ( america) has been reduced to.

    america was also right in assuming that total silence in and around chinese coast was safe ,actually as safe as it would have been around miami or around los angeles.

    now go ahead and start wondering what other exercises that are being considered in and around syria,iran,venejuala, afghanistan are actually safe because their safety have been vetted by few morons somewhete in some think tanks.

    btw ,why did forbes but no one else wrote a piece on it?
    this sort of event in and around amerucan coast ,would have resulted in sanctionis and possibly a war on the various already designated countries.

  244. anon[803] • Disclaimer says:
    @raga10

    “As for Iran, it mostly presents problems for other middle-eastern states and if that lot want to kill each other I’m all in favour of selling them all the weapons they can afford to buy, then extending them a generous line of credit so they can buy some more.”

    It seems you though dont make US policies,you support it. That thinking is along the line of thinking of the neocons .
    But just like all other thinkings of the donkeys known as neocons and the just like all other emotiins of the roaches ,known as neocons, that sentimental pining is based on created reality.

    You see,the moment America stops interfering in Middle East, thing start improving. Look at the hands trying to reach Syrian and Iranian hands .
    If these bastards did not start abusing the unipolar moment of 1990, and if these bastards allowed negotiations started by Egypt and Saudi, there woukd have been no Desert Storm.
    I dont defend another Desert Storm but I hope one hits these bastards composed of 5 eyes .

    • Replies: @raga10
  245. skrik says:
    @utu

    that you believed and still would like to believe

    Errr .. hello? I am *not* a ‘believer’ [that’s for the mugs with ‘faith’ in imaginary deities], which is why I ‘dug up’ the fact-trail presented in my #199; apropos, I just found something highly interesting:

    “Nach Scheinangriff US Navy völlig demoralisiert
    Dienstag, 15. April 2014”
    http://alles-schallundrauch.blogspot.com/2014/04/nach-scheinangriff-schiffsbesatzung.html

    Oops [in German but not sorry], I suggest https://translate.google.com/ could do a reasonable job. I used it, a quote:

    On Monday, a Pentagon spokesman confirmed the above event, calling the aerial maneuver terrifying and unacceptable as it would have completely demoralized the warship’s crew and had a negative impact on the general psychological climate. There were even two Su-24 involved, which had completely switched off the “Aegis” air defense system. 27 crew members of the destroyer are said to have submitted their resignation and commented on their actions by saying that they have no intention of putting their lives in danger.
    Spokesman Steven Warren said .. Members of the crew had to receive psychological support and recover from the stress they had suffered.

    [my bolding]

    Now, of course, ‘they’ say that one can find ‘any old rubbish’ on the net, but notice two things, 1) the bolded bits agree with Meyssan/Voltaire but 2) far worse, look at the date! Voltaire’s p-date was Sep’14 but the above blogspot’s p-date = 15Apr’14, only days after the ‘incident.’ As I wrote, could be just ‘any old rubbish.’ Recalling that ZUSA&Co continually lie ‘like troopers,’ perhaps a last comment from me: Well OK, it may have been a well-designed Russian hoax but I’m still laughing – and at least 27 crew members were not – ‘where there’s smoke, there’s fire?’

    BTW, is this the “USS David Cole Russian hoax” you referred to?

    {https://www.govinfo.gov » content » pkg » html
    On October 12, 2000, a bomb exploded in the port side of U.S.S. Cole while the ship was moored at a refueling ‘‘dolphin’’ in Aden, Yemen. The explosion, as you } ..

  246. anon[376] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    ((They)) take kindness for weakness. China would be very stupid to continue playing nice when its enemies have zero limits to their behavior and want to see you destroyed.

  247. @raga10

    Do you even know what the Chinese official line is??? No… You have no clue what it is. And why does China need nuclear subs??? Again – you show yourself not to be a serious adult in any way shape or form. When the police man of the world threatened your nation since yiu ad a revolution in the 1940’s and even directly threatened to nuke you on more than one occasion – what else should you do for defense???? Again – you show yourself not to be serious. No one has ever threatened to nuke Australia. I have never heard anyone ever threaten Australia with regime change. China has been the US second target after Russia for about 70 years (and even before China had its communist revolution it participated with other western nations in invading and subduing China and it supplied Japan when Japan was invading). For you to pretend this is not the case again shows you not to be a serious adult. Infantile insults from your infantile reasoning.

    France can get upset but they dont have real balls to retaliate against AUKUS for the treachery… No one with half a brain believes this has anything to do with Australian defense. Just ask Indonesia and Malaysia who are very pissed off. The clowns thought they would get respect but both those neighboring nations stated publicly they would consult with China on what China’s response will be. Russia also came out and said they take it as a threat not just to China but to Russia also. Nobody with half a brain is buying the snake oil you all bought and drink. If France really wanted defense they would have bought non nuclear subs. How ironice that even Russia and China mostly use non nuclear subs. Why? Defense. Nuclear subs are only for offense. There is not even a debate.

    • Replies: @raga10
  248. Z-man says:
    @denk

    Write correctly in the English language and maybe I’ll respond to you, you kike-n-vermin apologist you!

    • Replies: @barr
    , @denk
  249. barr says:
    @Z-man

    Roaches as usual will survive . Then instead of Chinse or Asian ,roaches will become the new leader of MAGA
    One wonders why the MAGa crowd needs to go down such a detour .
    But once you understand the phylogenetic tree , you understand the hierarchical position of the roaches above the MaGA crwod

    • Replies: @Z-man
  250. @Zachary Smith

    When releasing some of their new drones – China specifically noted indeed that was one of its functions (along with AWACS planes) – to help ASBM to target moving ships. I was actually trying to exolain that on another thread to someone on another thread that but they didnt get it. Even the article you sourced is 9 years old now. While it was a lot of speculation – the description of how it would work is absolutely correct. But I think the writer downplays others capabilities…. Isn’t that the same drone that Iran we found out later actually hacked and landed safely..?? Or was that another incident (its hard to remember them all)?? In any event they underestimated Iran with that – and also doubting Iranian missiles could hit US bases in Iraq… No disrespect to Iran but we know China is far more capable (meaning comapring hitting a base to moving ships).. So those who doubt what China could do – I dont know what to tell them…

    • Replies: @Zachary Smith
  251. Barr says:
    @denk

    It will be wrong the way protecting the Libyans was .

    May be rest of the world would seriously start thinking of proetcting the Peurto Rucan, Hawains, Navajo Indinas. May be they should focus on human right abuses in the streets of New York,in Ricker,in private penitentiary amd in Chicago or L A jails .

    The blueprint is availble. Start a small fire like encouraging the racial/ geographical groups to demand a modest chamge that will face resistance. If it doesn’t – keep on incraesing the numners on the lists for changes .
    Boom ! There will be responses. Tehn there will be counter repsonses . Some will come from China to distribue breads – ” Do you want some breads – Nuland ” – will be quoted . Some will distrbute viagra and say “Hillary “,!

    BTW Kurds enjoy more rights than Blacks Latinios Indians Aborgines do in US,Canada ,and Austarlia .

    • Replies: @denk
  252. denk says:
    @sardar

    Some gringo mug paid tribute to the USN during the current naval day celebration..

    Thanks for guaranteeing US national security for this past century

    OMFG
    Those clowns really believe in their own BS !

    When did the US military ever fight a defensive war since 1765 ?

    FUKUS [fuck UK, US] navies are the pirates of high sea, carrying the good ole tradition of their forebears.

    All these BS about enforcing FON in SCS.
    WHO’r the ones who violate FON willy nilly ?

    FUKUS piracy at high sea,
    Exhibit B

    HIjacking Chinese freighter Yinhe at high sea.

    The Chemical Weapons Convention will not become effective until at least 1995, and its verification mechanism is yet to be established. The United States, till this very day, has not ratified the Convention. And no international organisation has ever empowered the U.S. to conduct unilateral inspection of other countries. People cannot help wondering what legal basis the U.S. has got to justify its actions. If such behaviour of self-styled “world cop” is to be condoned, can there still be justice, sovereign equality and normal state-to-state relations in this world?

    https://web.archive.org/web/20021114163952/http://www.nti.org/db/china/engdocs/ynhe0993.htm

  253. denk says:
    @Z-man

    white supremacists wet dream to cull the yellow, brown, black have long been advertised and duly noted.

    BUt do you have to murder the english language as well..?

    Offense = defence,
    War is peace,
    Black is white…
    Their = there….
    Too = to
    Whats this nonsense ?

    You leave my queen’s english alone !

    • Replies: @Z-man
  254. d dan says:
    @raga10

    ” a sub is not a nuclear weapon any more than a truck carting around a land-based nuclear missile is a nuclear weapon.”

    Hahaha, more obtuse words from an apologist. Truck is not powered by nuclear energy. It does not contain any nuclear reactor or nuclear tech, whereas nuclear sub does.

    “Or do you think that non-proliferation of nuclear weapons treaty (that’s the full name) should now cover trucks as well?”

    If the truck is nuclear-powered, and if its sole purpose is as a weapon, than yes.

    The reason pacifists want to stop the proliferation of nuclear weapon is not just because of the explosive energy of the warhead that is of concern. Those energy actually kills only a fraction of the victims. It is ALSO because of the radioactive aftermath – which is not only order of magnitude less humane to kill people, but also hard to contain and clean up, and potentially have more collateral damages.

    During a conventional war, to destroy a nuclear sub, even if it only carries conventional warhead, involves the risk of radioactive leak. In that sense, nuclear sub is even more dangerous than nuclear warhead, where warring parties could theoretically try to avoid. Furthermore, as can be seen in the Seawolf class accident, there is also a possibility of leak during peacetime.

    And this is not just my opinion, but the opinion of enough legal scholars to make this a clear violation, or at least a controversial case. An exhibit in point. In the 1950s, during the good days when Japanese were still the real pacifist, they have to modify their territorial sea claim from the usual 12 nm to 3 nm to allow US nuclear carriers and nuclear subs to transit through their water, because their constitution contains the clause of “non-introduction” of nuclear weapon into their land.

    To claim that AUKUS is “staying not just true to the letter of the treaty, but to the spirit as well” is therefore at least problematic and objectionable, if not an outright lie, hubris or utterly irresponsible. (just like your claim that Russia lies all the time – or something like that).

    • Thanks: Showmethereal
    • Replies: @raga10
  255. @Deep Thought

    Non proliferation was starting to be more positive… Until Syria and Iraq and Libya gave up their programs and got paid for it with invasions directly or sponsored by NATO.. Sadly that has ended non proliferation.
    Still to this day – only one nation has ever used them against another. Well we can only hope it remains that way.

  256. @Showmethereal

    I believe it was the fancy US drone captured by Iran. No matter whether it’s a gift like that, or the result of spy work, the Chinese save a lot of time and money.

    Why spend a lot of effort trying to re-invent the wheel?

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  257. denk says:
    @Barr

    What happens to the ICC probe on FUS crimes against humanities in Afghan ? [1]

    Russia/China/Irian should push an inquisition on FUKUS genocides in the UN.
    Starting with Afghan…the list is boundless.
    Iraq, Libya , Syria, Yemen, Congo , Rwanda, INdonesia, Nam, Laos, Cambodia, Puerto Rico, Korea, jp.

    Tip of an iceberg.

    Done let the bastards get away scot free.
    Another Nuremberg trial is long overdue.

    [1]
    https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/09/02/full-frontal-attack-rule-law-trump-sanctions-top-icc-officials-probing-us-war-crimes

  258. Craig Hooper at Forbes has another article about the incident. He isn’t optimistic, remarking about the years it’ll take to repair the submarine, and the astronomical cost involved. He speculates it could be retired and used to supply parts to the remaining two boats.

    Navy Faces Prospect That Crash Will Force USS Connecticut Out Of Service
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/craighooper/2021/11/03/navy-faces-prospect-that-sub-crash-will-force-uss-connecticut-out-of-service/?sh=27cc60264f3c

  259. @xyzxy

    I have reliable contacts saying that they hit a weather balloon that was being covertly operated by a dark alliance of White Nationalists and Iranian kill teams.

  260. raga10 says:
    @Showmethereal

    Blah, blah, blah… but none of you Chinese trolls can provide straight answer to perfectly logical question: you say that Australia doesn’t need these nuclear subs for defense, yet you can’t explain why China does. I can understand your need for nuclear deterrence against USA (because I’ve said in the past that Australia should have nuclear deterrent against China) but that’s not what we are talking about here. Let’s be specific about the terms: we are NOT talking about nuclear deterrent. We are talking about attack submarines, nuclear-powered and conventionally-armed with torpedoes or cruise missiles at most. That’s what Australia is planning to get, that’s what you claim that Australia shouldn’t need. That’s also what China already owns.

    So I repeat, what’s different about China? Australia is essentially an island, it is completely dependent on sea routes. China is mostly a land country; your shore makes what, maybe a third of your total border? If anything, you should need submarines less than Australia.

    The best answer you’ve even hinted at is that China faces USA which is armed with aircraft carriers, nuclear-powered submarines and nuclear weapons. But if that’s a valid reason then Australia’s situation is identical: it faces China which is armed with aircraft carriers, nuclear-powered submarines and nuclear weapons. If you don’t want to take your potential enemy’s word that they mean you no harm, why the hell should Australia accept your word?

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @showmethereal
  261. @Zachary Smith

    Yeah we can only guess… We dont really know how far along any nation is with any military tech. Iran figured out how to hack the drone somehow. But that is common practice. The US used to learn from Soviet weapons programs… Common stuff among nations.

    • Replies: @Stephane
  262. raga10 says:
    @d dan

    Furthermore, as can be seen in the Seawolf class accident, there is also a possibility of leak during peacetime.

    Actually it can’t be seen since there was no leak in this case but sure, in principle there is a possibility of accident. There is always a possibility of accident; you can also have a leak from a shore based reactor, or from a Russian nuclear-powered icebreaker. And Japanese constitution is all well and good, but non-proliferation treaty doesn’t refer to nuclear propulsion, but to nuclear weapons. And while it doesn’t actually seem to specify the meaning of the term “nuclear weapon” (an oversight, I would say) it seems clear they mean “nuclear explosive device” and not “anything using nuclear power”.

    https://www.un.org/disarmament/wmd/nuclear/npt/text

  263. raga10 says:
    @anon

    It seems you though dont make US policies,you support it. That thinking is along the line of thinking of the neocons .

    Umm… as I understand the term “neocon”, they would be inclined towards sending American troops everywhere, intervention, support for Israel and sanctions against Iran, the more the better.
    While I am inclined towards leaving middle east to middle-easterners and total non-intervention, apart from profiting from equal opportunity arm sales to all sides.

    And as far as US-Iran relationships go specifically, I think US have it backwards: if they insist on meddling in the region, they should make it good with Iran and cut loose Israel and above all Saudi Arabia because these two truly personify that saying, “with friends like these, who needs enemies”.

  264. raga10 says:
    @The_MasterWang

    Why should Austrlia protect it’s trade routes to China from China?

    Optimist that I am, I assume Australia might actually have some trade with places other than China …

    • Replies: @The_MasterWang
  265. d dan says:

    ” there was no leak in this case”

    Again, you are jumping the gun here. As of today, there is no OFFICIAL confirmation from the US whether there was a leak or not. Even the Western media are reporting that China Foreign Ministry spokesman is accusing US “lack of transparency and responsibility”, that US still hasn’t answer many questions after over a month, including:

    “He said the U.S. has so far failed to offer… whether it caused a nuclear leak or …”

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/china-accuses-us-lack-transparency-accident-80919624

    Furthermore, as note in my comment #95 above, US recently sent the WC-135 Constant Phoenix spy plane into South China Sea. The plane sole purpose is to detects radioactive debris. This may or may not related to the accident, but it is causing a lot of speculations.

    “it seems clear they mean “nuclear explosive device” and not “anything using nuclear power”.”

    Well, I don’t think it is “clear” that it excludes nuclear sub. The text mentions “nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices”. Some people actually think that “nuclear explosive devices” means nuclear warheads, and “nuclear weapon” means any weapons containing nuclear tech devices, which therefore includes nuclear sub and nuclear carrier. I would leave it to others to decide. My opinion is that the definition should be determined by whether the nuclear tech is sole for PEACEFUL uses or not (a key word mentioned many times in the text). That is the true “spirit” of the treaty, contrary to your original assertion.

    • Replies: @raga10
  266. @That Would Be Telling

    Oh, dear-TWBT inverting reality again. The US Navy does not prowl around the world to keep ‘sea-lanes open’ you odious liar. EXACTLY the opposite. They are there to close them down as they did when murdering a million Iraqis (500,000 under five-I bet that gave you a patriotic buzz)under the siege of ‘sanctions’. And, as your fellow jingoistic racist red-necks here screech, in the coming war with China. And for attacking defenceless countries and murdering their people, a favourite Yankee pasttime. Under your baboon (sorry baboons)’logic’, China should be patrolling off San Diego to ‘keep sea-lanes open’, but they are NOT psychopathic, hyper- aggressive racists, so they don’t waste the money.

    • Agree: Notsofast
  267. d dan says:
    @raga10

    “none of you Chinese trolls can provide straight answer to perfectly logical question: you say that Australia doesn’t need these nuclear subs for defense”

    The reason that Australia does not need nuclear subs for defense is the same reason that Singapore does not need nuclear subs for defense.

    If all 200 nations in the world would to behave like those arrogant Anglo-Saxon imperialist states, to seek every possible “defense” against every possible “enemy”, real or imaginable, then the whole world would be in a disastrous and endless arm race today.

    The big-five UN security council powers defines the post-WW2 security order, whether you like it or not.

    • Replies: @raga10
  268. raga10 says:
    @d dan

    Again, you are jumping the gun here. As of today, there is no OFFICIAL confirmation from the US whether there was a leak or not.

    Well then, am I the only one jumping the gun here? I would say you’re jumping to conclusions more than I do because I don’t care much about official confirmation from the US, but we’ve seen pictures of the ship now docked in Guam and the damage is to the sonar dome, on the front of the ship. Nuclear reactor is in the back and the ship remains afloat so it’s logical to assume there was no serious damage underside or anywhere near the reactor.

    • Replies: @d dan
  269. @showmethereal

    I don’t vote AT ALL. Morrison is Evil incarnate, the culmination of a process that has, since 1975 when our one and only sane, decent, intelligent regime was removed by the CIA and local traitors, een ever more villainous, stupid and genocidal regimes and PMs rule this dystopia. Morrison and his regime add a few twists-even more than usual lying (he is an advertising metastasis), extraordinarily sadistic cruelty, to refugees, welfare recipients, the Indigenous and other members of the underclass, fawning on the USA and Israel, geo-political aggression, racist HATRED of China, and Morrison’s own Pentecostal lunacy. The process of Evil overtaking a society has been instructive to watch, and the end is near, one way (thermo-nuclear war with China) or another (ecological collapse). And the brainwashed bogans still think that our shit don’t stink.

    • Agree: acementhead
    • Replies: @Notsofast
  270. @Avery

    I have an extremely interesting book called ‘Chosen People’, by Clifford Longley, that explains how the ‘chosen by God’ lunacy migrated from the Jews to the English and Americans. I used to eat Indonesian food in an arcade opposite the ‘British-Israelite Society’ local office, and listen to their lunatic maunderings on the radio when in need of light relief. THERE is the Real Axis of Evil.

    • Thanks: Avery
  271. raga10 says:
    @d dan

    If all 200 nations in the world would to behave like those arrogant Anglo-Saxon imperialist states, to seek every possible “defense” against every possible “enemy”, real or imaginable, then the whole world would be in a disastrous and endless arm race today.

    I see, but China is exempt from the rule that should apply to those 200 other nations. Now your true colours are showing… this is exactly why the world is concerned about developments in China: you sound more and more like Americans every day.

    • Replies: @d dan
  272. Z-man says:
    @denk

    You are a Queen and I will leave you alone. LOL 😆

  273. Z-man says:
    @barr

    You’re as bad as denk.

  274. @raga10

    Do you know what the word troll means??? You either are the definition of a troll or you are simply clueless. nuclear powered submarines are to go FAR and attack other countries. It is NOT defense. The FACT is the US has ALLL nuclear subs because the US is the offensive attacking nation… Not even the Soviets fielded only nuclear powered subs.

    I explained EXACTLY the difference. The difference is the country who Australia is the lap dog for has threatened to nuke China in the past and is the one with all the nuclear subs. Your brain lacks reasoning…. China is not Australia’s enemy. Australia is a lapdog of the bully US who has constantly tried to topple China for 70 years. Australia got rich selling it’s goods to China. Australia is the one who under US direction blocked Huawei with no evidence and it has spiraled from there. So don’t try to change the reality. You live in a very strange world. A real alt universe… You must just suck up 5 eyes global media… I’m not even sure why you would come on a site like this because you are obviously drunk on the Operation Mockingbird wine.

    The bottom line is AUKUS snaked France and for a completely dumb reason. Nobody else buys it… Not China – Not Indonesia – Not Malaysia – Not Russia – and not France either. Australia has MADE itself an enemy of China… And now is aggravating Indonesia and Russia too. And nobody wants the 5 Eyes cowboys hot dogging in waters that don’t belong to them and crashing their subs and potentially causing nuclear accidents. That is a FACT that you obviously don’t learn on 5 Eyes media.

    • Replies: @raga10
    , @anon
  275. Anon[322] • Disclaimer says:
    @Smith

    Are you assured that if they investigate they’ll let you, and us, know? Lol.

    • Replies: @Smith
  276. Firstly, the Russians showed the Chinese that the Russians will honour their promises, and secondly, the Russians showed the US that Russians are not to be underestimated.

    That’s risible. No agreement with Putin can be relied upon. That has also been the history of the Soviet Union as well as Tsarist Russia. If you think Russia can be trusted, talk with the Georgians, Moldovans and Ukrainians.

  277. raga10 says:
    @showmethereal

    nuclear powered submarines are to go FAR and attack other countries. It is NOT defense.

    Well, finally we are getting somewhere. You’re right, nuclear attack submarines are not exactly a defensive weapon and China doesn’t need them for defense of its shores – it needs them to attack.

    But at the same time China would like to deny the right to have the same weapons to other nations, to Australia in particular – that is what pisses me off; I don’t especially care if Australia has nuclear subs or not, it’s the Chinese duplicity that gets my goat.

    China is not Australia’s enemy.

    That is your opinion; Australia is entitled to its own.

    As for that matter of China being a permanent member of Security Council – well, two other members are the ones building these subs for Australia, so clearly they have no problem with this. No members of SC objected to India having their own nuclear subs (well, except perhaps China, again). Russia certainly didn’t object, since it leased their own nuclear sub to India as an interim measure… India, btw, is not one of the ‘big five’ – contrary to what “d dan” seems to insinuate, being on Security Council is NOT a prerequisite to owning nuclear submarines.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    , @denk
  278. @raga10

    Other than the route to Vietnam, which one can the Chinese navy threaten?

  279. Notsofast says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    ….. removed by the CIA and local traitors….. don’t forget the queen.

  280. d dan says:
    @raga10

    “China is exempt from the rule ”

    Read my whole comment again. If you want China to disarm its nuclear sub, than do so for US, UK, France and Russia/India too, i.e. to destroy the post-WW2 order. If that is what you suggest, than we have a totally different debate.

    Otherwise, don’t pretend that you are fighting for the “small” guy. Everyone knows that the world where all 200 nations seeking nuclear weapons (whether it means nuclear subs or not) is worse than the world we have today. That is also why most nations endorse the non-proliferation treaty.

    Australia is the lapdog of US. You are not fighting for the principle of equality or any higher moral ground. You just want more lapdogs on your side.

    • Replies: @raga10
  281. Smith says:
    @Anon

    I’m 100% sure if the chinese have found something or even theorized about it, the local chinese commenters here and Global Times wouldn’t shut up about it like the Ft. Detrick virus theory.

  282. raga10 says:
    @d dan

    Read my whole comment again. If you want China to disarm its nuclear sub, than do so for US, UK, France and Russia/India too, i.e. to destroy the post-WW2 order. If that is what you suggest, than we have a totally different debate.

    Read my whole comment again, any of my comments in fact – I never said a word about wanting China to disarm themselves. I am saying that Australia has exactly the same right to arm itself that China does.

    • Replies: @Daemon
    , @The_MasterWang
    , @d dan
  283. d dan says:
    @raga10

    “you’re jumping to conclusions”

    I don’t have a conclusion whether there is a risk or not. Only you do.

    “I don’t care much about official confirmation from the US”

    Millions of people’s (from China+ASEAN) livelihood depends on South China Sea. I know you don’t care about other people who are not your race (per your comments in other thread), but they care whether there is leak or not. US official confirmation is an important piece of info for them.

    “so it’s logical to assume”

    Your logic and assumption may or may not be correct. But you are substituting your (so-called) knowledge+logic for official confirmation, and try to claim that as FACT (i.e. no leak). That is called hubris.

    • Agree: Showmethereal
  284. @raga10

    “China doesn’t need them for defense of its shores – it needs them to attack.”

    Yes and China is clear that it has a no first use policy on actually using nukes… The US does not.

    “But at the same time China would like to deny the right to have the same weapons to other nations, to Australia in particular – that is what pisses me off;”

    Well you simply don’t know what you are talking about since China said no such thing. China simply said it will take countermeasures. And you have a STRANGE OBSESSION with China when I listed the other nations who spoke OPENLY AGAINST this deal. So what is your real agenda here????

    “That is your opinion; Australia is entitled to its own.”

    Australia has no opinion – it does what the US tells it.

    “No members of SC objected to India having their own nuclear subs (well, except perhaps China, again)”

    Ohhh you must be an Indian who follows WION … Again you have no clue what you are talking about. A lot of nations were not happy with Russia leasing a nuclear sub to India. You really are either a troll or delusional. You have a very strange obsession with China based on a lot of false premises… So I will take you for a WION disciple. And while I had to clear up another of your falsehoods – I am not “d dan”… so address issues he brings up with him.

    • Replies: @raga10
    , @anon
  285. Daemon says:
    @raga10

    It’s not about rights, it’s about the message you are sending. Right now the conflict is between the US and China. Australia, being a distant cousin to the US should be loudly and boldly declaring neutrality to any form of hostility, instead she is buying a gun. What message does that send?

    • Thanks: Showmethereal
    • Replies: @The_MasterWang
    , @raga10
  286. denk says:
    @raga10

    nuclear attack submarines are not exactly a defensive weapon and China doesn’t need them for defense of its shores – it needs them to attack.

    Rubbish.

    Never heard of the nuclear triad ?
    A land, sea and air based nuclear strike capability.

    A nuclear sub force provides a second strike capability, primarily to deter a sneaky first strike from soneone like sneaky uncle sam that obliterates the land based nukes.

    • Replies: @raga10
  287. anon[403] • Disclaimer says:
    @showmethereal

    It will benefit China to become a Five Eyes “lap dog.” Anti-colonial and anti-“AUKUS” (or anti-“FUKUS”) critics simply assert that colonialism was ‘a foreign imposition lacking popular legitimacy’. Yet until very late, European colonialism appears to have been highly legitimate and for good reasons. Millions of people moved closer to areas of more intensive colonial rule (Hong Kong being a case in point), sent their children to colonial schools and hospitals, went beyond the call of duty in positions in colonial governments, reported crimes to colonial police, migrated from non-colonised to colonised areas, fought for colonial armies and participated in colonial political processes – all relatively voluntary acts.

    Indeed, the rapid spread and persistence of Western colonialism with very little force relative to the populations and areas concerned is prima facie evidence of its acceptance by subject populations compared to the feasible alternatives. The ‘preservers’, ‘facilitators’ and ‘collaborators’ of colonialism, as far outnumbered the ‘resisters’ at least until very late: ‘Imperial expansion was frequently the result not just of European push but also of indigenous pull.’

    In Borneo,the Sultan of Brunei installed an English traveller, James Brooke, as the rajah of his chaotic province of Sarawak in 1841, after which order and prosperity expanded to such an extent that even once a British protectorate was established in 1888, the Sultan preferred to leave it under Brooke family control until 1946.

  288. @raga10

    Indeed it does. And it is noble of Australia to do so, taking up this huge burden in service to a greater purpose.

    It means China will never know peace until the Anglosphere is utterly destroyed. I hope you are ready for the consequences.

  289. @Daemon

    The message is “We will stand with our fellow White Anglos and struggle against the coming Yellow Peril.”

    Message received and understood. Prepare for the consequences.

  290. d dan says:
    @raga10

    “I am saying that Australia has exactly the same right to arm itself that China does.”

    It is easy to claim you want this right or that right. But that would means all 200 nations should have the same right to acquire nuclear subs and nuclear weapons, to develop bioweapons, to acquire anti-missile shields and star-war weapons,…. Yeah, Fiji can buy a small atomic bomb for their island, and Vatican can keep vials of anthrax in the basement, … you know, just in case…

    But most reasonable persons believe this will not be a better world. Instead, most nations support the nuclear non-proliferation by willingly giving up their rights to acquire nuclear weapons WITHOUT getting anything tangible in return. Most want to ban bioweapons, ban militarization of space, and so on.

    So, do you want to reverse this trend and allow all the 200 nations to enjoy the same rights as the big five? Or are you advocating for the big five to disarm themselves to the same level of the 200 nations? These are the only two intellectually honest choices, Whether they are realistic is another matter.

    But no, you seem to want selectively pick some nations (like Australia) to enjoy the same rights as China, or else complain about China (and only China out of the big five) having more weapons than Australia.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  291. Yee says:

    Another US submarine surfaced on South China Sea 3 weeks later…

    Why bother sending submarines to SCS if they surface all the time? Send yatch instead. LOL

    • Replies: @mike99588
  292. raga10 says:
    @showmethereal

    Yes and China is clear that it has a no first use policy on actually using nukes… The US does not.

    Australia is not US. Even more importantly, it has no nukes. There is no suggestion these subs would ever be equipped with nukes.

    China simply said it will take countermeasures.

    Oh, that’s OK then. Like what? Build their own subs? Oh, I forgot – they did it first.

    A lot of nations were not happy with Russia leasing a nuclear sub to India.

    Fine, maybe they weren’t happy but they didn’t do a whole lot about it because Russia went ahead anyway, as did India. India now has, what – 3 or 4 nuclear subs of their own?

    So I will take you for a WION disciple.

    I don’t know what that is, so I can’t comment. Also, I don’t care; once again, I’m not Indian. Just because somebody doesn’t like China, that doesn’t mean they are Indian… plenty of people in the world don’t like China, contrary to what you seem to be telling yourself.

    I am not “d dan”… so address issues he brings up with him.

    I’m not actually sure about that, you certainly seem to be walking in step and sometimes it’s hard to keep you apart. Also, sometimes in the interest of not overposting I might try to combine my replies into one post; Deal with it.

  293. raga10 says:
    @denk

    Rubbish.

    What do you mean, rubbish? That’s what your mate showmethereal said, his exact words: nuclear powered submarines are to go FAR and attack other countries. It is NOT defense.

    Also, please figure out the difference between ballistic missile subs and attack subs on your own, I don’t feel like educating you right now.

    • Replies: @denk
  294. raga10 says:
    @Daemon

    It’s not about rights, it’s about the message you are sending.

    Well for me, it’s about rights. As for the message.. well, maybe you have a point. Or maybe sometimes neutrality is not the best option… “when you sit on the fence, you get splinters up your ass”.

    Personally I’m not greatly in love with America, not at all. But China seems just as bad to me and in the end, I’m just selfish: contrary to what many people think here, I am not Indian – I’m White. I fit better in Pax Americana than I would in Pax Sinica.

  295. @RoatanBill

    If I were the North Koreans, I would already have nuclear devices buried in basements in all major US cities.

  296. Anon[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    “In Borneo,the Sultan of Brunei installed an English travelle“

    British royals and nobles copied the Islamic outfit and etiquettes for decades before the battle of 1857.
    Racism was invented to represent the new reality . It affected both the British and the Indian elite of both Hindu and Muslim lineages .

    That racism also has misrepresented ,misquoted ,and misread the role of Arab in Spain in shaping the scientific and cultural revolution in Europe .

    Present is the most dangerously worst places for both the past and the future

    • Replies: @anon
  297. @The_MasterWang

    I really couldn’t care less about your idiotic racism. The facts are what they are. That you won’t accept them is your problem.

    • Replies: @The_MasterWang
  298. @denk

    Yep, a Chinese pilot died because he acted like an idiot and flew into one of the propellers on the P-3. Stupidity often results in death.

    It looks bad for you when you accept propaganda. The Libyans had been routinely harassing Navy aircraft in international airspace. The MiGs were not just “cruising.”

    The Vincennes incident was a mistake and was admitted to be as much.

    • Troll: Mulga Mumblebrain
  299. anonymous[133] • Disclaimer says:
    @xyzxy

    I’m sure that commander C. Mahmood Aljilani had everything under control.

    Rofl!

    But then, the truth surely must be that the commander is indeed some albinoni**er macho (at least self-perceived) mofer. Yeah?

    Facetiousness… is this how you whitevil cunts cover your abject failures nowadays?

    Say something cute about that hypersonic launch also, will ya?

    😀

  300. @Quartermaster

    “Vincennes incident “?

    Letter to the editor, SCMP published on 13/07/88

    American policy in Gulf is all wrong

    FAR from offering a fair judgment on the downing of the Iranian Airbus by the United States navy, you turned your editorial (South China Morning Post, July 5) into a slander against Iran, the injured party in the Gulf conflict.

    It was Iraq which started the Gulf war, which started and perpetuated the “tanker war” and “war of the cities”; which employed chemical weapons and, of course, which attacked the US frigate Stark.

    Yet, because it occupies the “high moral ground”, the US decided to punish Iran for all the wrongs Iraq has done.

    American policy in the Gulf conflict is not “fundamentally right”, but fundamentally unrighteous. The destruction of the airliner was a disaster waiting to happen.

    The fundamentalist Islamic rulers in Teheran are dismissed as “mad, bad and dangerous” only by those in the fundamentally Christian West, who, for more than two centuries, have oppressed the non-Europeans who dare to differ from them on political aspirations, cultural preferences, religious beliefs, table manners or merely skin colour.

    No Teheran fundamentalists have proved to be so mad, so bad and so dangerous as to shoot down a passenger plane.

    As in Vietnam, the Americans have again opted to shoulder the imperialist responsibilities of their European forebearers. Again, they will be made to pay in blood.

    NEW CRUSADER

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  301. anon[147] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    That racism also has misrepresented ,misquoted ,and misread the role of Arab in Spain in shaping the scientific and cultural revolution in Europe .

    The cultural and scientific revolution in Europe occurred because of the revival of interest in classical studies, specifically the Greek and Roman heritage that forms the basis for Western civilization. To the extent that Arabs had any culture to offer the Europeans whom they occupied, it was only because they (the Arabs) had been influenced by the Greeks and Romans who preceded them. Indeed, if it weren’t for the spread of Hellenism to Persia, India, and Babylonia under Alexander (and other Greek traders, merchants, and diplomats), the civilizations which you credit for having sparked cultural revival in Europe would not have had the level of cultural development for you to even make the kind of argument that you’re putting forward. Most of the Islamic World (i.e. North Africa, Anatolia, etc.) had been settled by Hellenic and Roman communities before the Caliphate came into being. It was the Greeks, Romans, and Persians who provided the model on which Arab elites built their civilizations, not the other way around.

    It is you who are engaging in historical revisionism by whitewashing and romanticizng the Muslim occupation as a forerunner of cultural revival in Europe. The irony is that Spain’s golden age began after the Reconquista, not before. The kind of historical revisionism you engage in is designed to influence current policy in Europe and make it more amenable to liberalized immigration policies. One such notable example is Islamic scholar Akbar Ahmed, whose ongoing whitewashes of Islamic al-Andalus are clearly meant to break down resistance to the mass Muslim migrant influx into Europe today. He has claimed that Abdur Rahman I’s “dynasty more than any other came to represent the idea of pluralist society in Europe.”

    You mention “racism” in connection with historical scholarship concerning the Al-Andalus period. In reality, it is “racism” by Muslims that defined the character of this period, and it is cultural egoism and racism on your part that motivates the outright denial of persecution and oppression of Christian Europeans during this period. Muslim Spain was anything but pluralist; it was miserable to live as a Christian there. Christians could never be sure that they would not be harassed. One contemporary account tells of priests being “pelted with rocks and dung” by Muslims while on the way to a cemetery. The dhimmis also suffered severe economic hardship. Paul Alvarus, a ninth- century Christian in Córdoba, complained about the “unbearable tax” that Muslims levied on Christians. Nor could Christians say anything about their lot, because it was proscribed by Islamic law, and criticizing Islam, Muhammad, or the Qur’an in any manner was a death-penalty offense.

    In 850, Perfectus, a Christian priest, engaged a group of Muslims in conversation about Islam; his opinion of the conquerors’ religion was not positive. For this, Perfectus was arrested and put to death. Not long thereafter, Joannes, a Christian merchant, was said to have invoked Muhammad’s name in his sales pitch. He was lashed and given a lengthy prison sentence. Christian and Muslim sources contain numerous records of similar incidents in the early part of the tenth century. Around 910, in one of many such episodes, a woman was executed for proclaiming that “Jesus was God and that Muhammad had lied to his followers.”

    • Agree: raga10
    • Replies: @Anon
  302. Stephane says:
    @Showmethereal

    Iran figured out how to hack the drone somehow.

    From whar I’ve read here or there it was not really “hacked into”, but carefully steered in a two-step process.

    First, the remote control signals were jammed so that the drone was forced to switch to autonomous mode, turning back to it’s base on autopilot rather thant remote control.

    Second, the GPS signals were overriden with more powerful, altered signals so that the drone miscalculated it’s position was redirected to land at an Iranian airbase rather than it’s intended destination.

    This sound at least plausible, because with this modus operandi you don’t need to break encryption or reverse engineer the communication protocols of the drone.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  303. denk says:
    @raga10

    Who’s the one confused ?

    showmereal

    SSN in the hand of FUS is an offensive weapon

    Exactly

    raga

    China doesn’t need them for defense of its shores – it needs them to attack.

    Rubbish

    A knife in the hand of a robber is
    an offensive weapon, whereas a shop owner keeps a knife handy just in case the robber show up.

    Its not the tool,
    its the user,

    Get it ?

    • Agree: Showmethereal
    • Replies: @Showmethereal
    , @raga10
  304. Anon[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Your bs is as prolific as are the lies of 19 th century historians entirely full of anecdotes .

    Start with Lost Enlightenment by S Fredrick Starr

    There are other books documenting the flow of advanced math , biology , astronomy from MIddle East to Europe .
    Those were not translated books of some Ancient Greek or Rome .

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Showmethereal
  305. denk says:
    @Quartermaster

    stupid Chinese pilot, serve him right

    mofo
    Here’s a report from TW media,
    [link is kaput]

    American EP-3 aircraft ~ have frequently entered Taiwan’s air space illegally to spy on the island, it was reported. The Chinese-language United Daily News said the recent collision of an EP-3 aircraft and a Chinese fighter plane off the east coast of China has rekindled the memories of mid-air interceptions of US spy planes by Taiwanese pilots. ‘Much of the time, EP-3s showed up off the south-eastern part of the island to gather electronic information when the Chungshan Institute of Science and Technology test-fired missiles,’ the paper said, quoting retired air force pilots . . . The paper said that initially, Taiwan’s air force dispatched single-seat fighters to drive away the EP-3s, but later had to send twin-seat fighters. One retired military pilot said several EP-3s would play a game of cat-and-mouse with Taiwanese fighters dispatched to chase them away. They would sometimes slow down unexpectedly or shut off two of their four turboprop engines, he said. Jet fighters can stall if they slow their speed dramatically. The pilot said another EP-3 trick was to make a sharp turn. ‘Maybe the American pilots thought interceptors would immediately fly away when the EP-3 made a sharp turn, so they time and again played the tricks,’ the unnamed Taiwan pilot was quoted as having said. He said the ill-fated Chinese pilot who was missing after his jet crashed during the collision might have failed to notice a sharp turn by the EP-3, bumped into the US aircraft and crashed into the sea.

    mofo

    The MiGs were not just “cruising.”

    asshole,
    USN always go looking for trouble and lied thru the teeth when caught with its pant down.

    mofo

    The Vincennes incident was a mistake and was admitted to be as much.

    Then the mofoking captain got a medal of gallantry. ?

    mistake your ass.

    • Replies: @Quartermaster
  306. anon[147] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    There are other books documenting the flow of advanced math , biology , astronomy from MIddle East to Europe .
    Those were not translated books of some Ancient Greek or Rome .

    Oh, is that so? Let me educate you some more.

    https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323612#influences

    [MORE]

    Islamic medicine built upon the legacies of Greek and Roman physicians and scholars, including Galen, Hippocrates, and the Greek scholars of Alexandria and Egypt.


    Scholars translated medical literature from Greek and Roman into Arabic and then elaborated upon it
    , adding their findings, developing new conclusions, and contributing new perspectives.

    Islamic scholars expertly gathered data and ordered it so that people could easily understand and reference information through various texts.

    They also summarized many Greek and Roman writings, compiling encyclopedias.

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31787564/

    Galen (129-199 A.D.), an ancient Greek scholar, is one of the most influential and recognized physicians and surgeons in the history of medicine. He is one of the most influential Greek scholar in Persian medicine, who has been repeatedly cited by Iranian scholars. The purpose of this article is to describe the exact position of Galen in Avicenna’s The Canon of Medicine, the most important work of Persian medicine. In The Canon of Medicine, Galen is cited about 300 times, and Avicenna always admired and praised Galen repeatedly. Galen’s ideas were important to Avicenna, but there are also many elements of Galen’s views that Avicenna challenged or criticized. For example, Avicenna diverged from Galen’s philosophical view in medicine and rejected some of Galen’s pharmaceutical opinions and Galen’s views on the physiology of pain, the physiology of pulse, the same nature of the tendons and nerves and separation of the mind and body. Although the views of Greek scholars, especially Galen, in The Canon of Medicine have been quoted abundantly, Avicenna revised the knowledge of the ancient scholars through critical thinking and relying on observation and testing, systematized the science of medicine and introduced many ideas and innovations. As such, Europeans considered Avicenna as the most prominent physician of the Islamic Golden Age.

    I’m focusing here on medicine, but I could just as easily show you similar evidence in the domains of astronomy, botany, philosophy, mathematics, etc.

    I’ll leave you with Francois Rabelais’ famous quote:

    • Replies: @Rabbitnexus
    , @Rabbitnexus
  307. @anon

    Lol… To use black american parlance – you have more dignity being a field negro than a house negro.

    • Replies: @anon
  308. @d dan

    Totally agree with your comment. Though it would be nice if even the big 5 was to give up nukes too… But the US and UK wont because they feel it is their divine right to impose on the world. Russia wont because it doesnt trust NATO and China wont because it doesnt trust the US mainly.

  309. @raga10

    Ok maybe a 13 year old girl instead.
    You keep on going around in circles and cant get it through your brain it is not just China that doesnt want Australia to have these subs and this article is one of the reasons. Even 5 Eyes member New Zealand said they will NOT allow Australia to sail these subs in their waters. You are completely clueless and obsessed with China. Go read up on why New Zealand is against nuclear powered subs of any type. Then look up why ASEAN is also.

    Yup you are right lots of people dont like China. They are just like you and suck up to the 5 Eyes media and dont know better. I heard a white Canadian say “there are foreigners who hate China and then there are foreigner s who have actually been there”. He used to go for business and then moved there. He admits he was once like you and believed all the 5 eyes garbage. He even became a blogger because he is wise enough to know the western nations you get your news from are preparing for to try to start a war with China… He knows how much the western media brainwashes people by manufacturing consent because he grew up in it. Maybe one day you will get such an epiphany. Maybe when you pass out of teenage stage you will be able to learn the difference between facts and opinion and cause and effect and then action and reaction. Carry on.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  310. @denk

    Aside from the fact that 5 eyes (well really 4) changes stories at will and nuclear attack subs can be converted to carry. Uclear weapons… Or that the grade of enrichment in these types of subs are far closer to weapons grade than those of a reactor used to power homes and businesses. It is not hard to tell where he gets his false info

    • Agree: denk
    • Replies: @denk
  311. @Stephane

    Thanks for the detailed explanation… I mean i am not a software engineer so when i say “hack” I dont just mean breaking the encryption code. In my layman terms what you describe is like hacking to me – lol.

  312. @anon

    Your ancestors subjugated weaker peoples by force. They didn’t talk their victims into submission. Show us strength. Or shut the fuck up.

  313. @Quartermaster

    Then you are saying your counterintelligence agents are all hopelessly incompetent and should be held responsible.

    But of course I am just kidding. Your kind has this tendency to hold two contradictory ideas simultaneously because it feels good. An even more perverse version of doublethink, if you will.

    • Replies: @Quartermaster
  314. There are a lot of articles out recently about China and its military forces.

    A Closer Look at China’s Missile Silo Construction
    https://fas.org/blogs/security/2021/11/a-closer-look-at-chinas-missile-silo-construction/

    They appear to have become worried about “somebody” attacking China and leaving them without the ability to retaliate, so a swarm of new missile silos are under construction. The enormous inflatable structures the size of football fields keep out the rain and snow during the first parts of the work.

    China’s New Ballistic Missile Subs Could Strike The U.S. Without Sailing Into The Pacific
    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42993/new-chinese-ballistic-missile-submarines-could-strike-u-s-without-traveling-into-pacific

    China has only a handful of missile submarines, and they are so noisy the US has no trouble tracking them with our excellent attack submarines. Since the US of A has at least 57 of these attack subs, every single Russian and Chinese missile sub could easily have two US boats following it around. Not a good thing if you’re a Russian or Chinese strategist.

    That’s why the article speaks of “bastions”, safe places where a nation’s submarines can cruise around without worrying about those pesky US attack subs. Having long-range missiles aboard your submarine which can be launched from dockside while parked in a port is highly desirable as well. Russia can already do that, and it seems China either can do the same, or will be able to do it soon.

  315. @Showmethereal

    I struggle to recall a social or geopolitical question or controversy in the last forty years or so over which the Western MSM has NOT lied, misrepresented, disinformed and worked upon as a very active propaganda system, populated by lying, villainous, arrogant thugs. I place them somewhere in the company of paedophiles and real estate agents in my character estimation, but that’s probably generous.

    • Replies: @Avery
  316. raga10 says:
    @denk

    Its not the tool,
    its the user,

    Get it ?

    I get it. Like I said, you’re becoming more and more like Americans. Now you’re starting to believe in your exceptionalism.

    So, do you want to reverse this trend and allow all the 200 nations to enjoy the same rights as the big five?

    I don’t want to allow it; they ALREADY HAVE it and it is not up to the big five, and certainly not up to China, to allow or not allow anything. Disarmament is a lovely idea, but not when it is dictated by force by a select group of countries to others, “for their own good”. Fuck that!

    You want smaller countries not to arm themselves? Follow by example, don’t preach about benefits of non-proliferation while arming yourself to the hilt, you hypocrites.
    (you in this case meaning “the big five”)

    • Replies: @raga10
    , @denk
  317. @Deep Thought

    Yankee cowardice is legendary. The thugs are still calling the drone strike that murdered seven children in Kabul ‘righteous’ (sick pseudo-religious, psychopathy)’justified’ etc. The murder of the unarmed, elderly, Osama patsy, in cold blood, the treacherous murder of Soleimani while on a diplomatic mission, the ‘night raids’ ie death-squad murders across Afghanistan, the Contras, Operation Condor, Operation Phoenix, bayoneting Crazy Horse in the back, on and on for centuries.

  318. raga10 says:
    @raga10

    Follow by example

    … err, I meant to say, “lead by example”.

  319. anon[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @Showmethereal

    The fact is that Chinese always immigrate to countries established and developed by Europeans. They went to Hong Kong and Singapore when those were governed by the British. Now that Hong Kong faces the prospect of being ruled by the CCP, Hong Kongers are fleeing to Western countries.

    Who wants to stay in China and live like ant people? No individuality. No soul. Asians who grow up in the West have more confidence, personality, and spunk than the average Chinaman.

    All of the China posters here are Chinese kids who grew up in Western countries but larp as Chinese nationalists. They couldn’t make it in America. All they can do is go online, glorify Xi, and wax nostalgic about the old country. Pathetic.

  320. @Anon

    You forget there is lots of re-writing of history to make it seem everything in history was developed in Europe and the Greeks were the smartest people that lived – until the British came around.

    • Replies: @anon
  321. raga10 says:

    All of the China posters here are Chinese kids who grew up in Western countries but larp as Chinese nationalists.

    … or they’re Chinese students in Australia, even more likely. Their govt at home is keeping an eye on them, and that explains at least part of their fervour, I suspect.

    • Troll: showmethereal
    • Replies: @d dan
  322. @anon

    LOL… Look up the percentage of the Chinese diaspora as a total of the Chinese populations. It is tiny – lol. And Chinese will go anywhere. Zambia – Mexico – Malaysia – Jamaica you name it… They dont juat migrate to white countries. Chinese will go anywhere there is to do business. Chinese are not on the bottom rung wherever they go. You might want to check Chinese American stats and compare them to white American stats. As to Hong Kong and Singapore. They were dirt poor as British colonies – except for a few white British. It was the Chinese people – some of whom are my own kin that built the busineses that made them what they are. The Brits used Hong Kong for contraband… Singapore was dirt poor when it got its independence. Thanks for the laugh.

    And as to those leaving Hong Kong… Its good the malcontents leave… Again a relatively smalll population. You make Hong Kong sound like Gary, Indiana or Cleveland Ohio or Wolverhampton UK. lol. Go check the prices of real estate… Or you can believe whatever makes you feel good. Lol

  323. Derer says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    This is a desperate cry for help. Mumble-Mulga remember China has equal right to have more toilets than outhouses, however they could not make it. They have no inventive capability but great ability of thieving technology – i.e. time lag behind.

  324. d dan says:
    @raga10

    “Their govt at home is keeping an eye on them, and that explains at least part of their fervour, I suspect.”

    LOL. Stick to the topic if you are capable. Does it matter whether the “Chinese trolls” stay in the West, in China, or anywhere else? Does it matter whether the govt keeps an eye on them?

    Can’t argue logically, so now trying to throw muds.

    • Replies: @raga10
  325. Avery says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    {……. last forty years or so over which the Western MSM has NOT lied, misrepresented, disinformed and worked upon as a very active propaganda system,………}

    I read a book a long time ago – can’t recall the title – about Goebbels.
    Apparently Goebbels considered the British propaganda superior to his, because he said British delivered propaganda as news.

    Having come from former Soviet Union many years ago (specifically Soviet Armenia), I can see it here in the US now. In SU propaganda was so crude and so in your face, that nobody believe it. People openly ridiculed it.

    And having lived in the US for many years now and having educated myself re the GloboReptilians, I recognize the lying, misrepresentation, disinformation, and all the rest of it disseminated as “News”. But, at the same time I have to admit to be in awe of the level of sophistication their lying has been elevated to. Their mastery is breathtaking. UNZ readers and posters are an exception. Most of the rest of American sheeple soak up the lies and propaganda like a dry sponge.

    “Thank YOU Sir! Give me another. And another. And……..”

    • Thanks: showmethereal
    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  326. raga10 says:
    @d dan

    Does it matter whether the “Chinese trolls” stay in the West, in China, or anywhere else?

    For the purpose of this argument, it doesn’t matter. For the purpose of living in the real world, I would prefer if Chinese would fuck off back to China. After all, it’s so fantastic over there…

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @showmethereal
  327. anon[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @Showmethereal

    You forget there is lots of re-writing of history to make it seem everything in history was developed in Europe and the Greeks were the smartest people that lived – until the British came around.

    Most of the rewriting in history is to erase the legacy of the Greeks and make whites look bad.

    It’s never been claimed that they’re the “smartest people that lived,” only that they laid the foundation for the future development of Western civilization and that Western people drew their inspiration from the ancient Greeks and Romans for their cultural revival during the Renaissance and not from Arab Al-Andalus, as the original poster claimed. The original poster (most likely one of the China posters masquerading as an “Anon”) was making false claims about the origins of the Renaissance and cultural revival in Europe, probably out of some deep-seated sense of insecurity and jealousy.

    And if you’ve ever been to China, you’d realize that Chinese institutions (government, academia, etc.) have the utmost respect for the ancient Greeks and Romans. Do you think that relations between the China and the West begin during the Opium Wars? China has had cultural exchanges and good diplomatic relations with the West going back to ancient times, long before the British ever arrived in China. Do you think the thousands of years of history of Sino-Western relations can be reduced to Trump trade wars, submarine deals with Australia, and other such recent drama?

    Have you ever been to the Beijing Observatory (https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/beijing-ancient-observatory)? Well I have (among thousands of other places in China), and you’ll be surprised to discover the busts and statues of many Italian scientists and astronomers who are featured at the observatory because they came to China and taught Chinese astronomers many concepts in astronomy. I invite you to go and see for yourself. Chinese bookstore and libraries also feature the classics of European literature, and they always feature classics from the ancient Greeks.

    Westerners don’t need other cultures to help them grow and develop. Nobody ever claimed that they’re the smartest, but please don’t act like Westerners need Arabs to develop a vibrant and rich culture with great insights in astronomy, botany, etc.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  328. d dan says:
    @raga10

    “I would prefer if Chinese would fuck off back to China. ”

    Would you asked the whites to leave North America and Australia too? OK. Never mind, I know the answer.

    Look like you are resorting to low level taunting now after losing the debate. LOL

    • Replies: @raga10
  329. raga10 says:
    @d dan

    Look like you are resorting to low level taunting now after losing the debate. LOL

    But I’ve won the debate, since I conclusively demonstrated you’re just full of shit. Having done that, I’m moving on because it’s my habit to say what I have to say then stop, rather than endlessly beating the dead horse. You should try it sometime!

    Would you asked the whites to leave North America and Australia too?

    Of course I wouldn’t. But I care about you so much I just want you to live your best life! And since Chinese posters convinced me that China is where it’s at and everything is just so much better, I implore you, go back – don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

    • Replies: @d dan
  330. Anonymous[407] • Disclaimer says:

    So-called ‘ancient’ Greek history is falsified by the West, stretched by several hundreds of years in the past (until Trojan battle) and appropriated, to make impression of long Western history. Greeks did not live in Troy. How they could have Olympic mythology if they haven’t seen Mt Olympus in the following 1000 years? They got their name from indigenous people who lived in today’s Greece for thousands of years before (future) Greek colonists came from Egypt and Middle East. They officially entered the history with the first Olympic game which is actually fake. Upon their arrival they adopted the language and mythology of the local people. West make them a ‘miracle’ nation but can anyone find one Greek in last 200 years whose name is worth mentioning. Alexander the Great was NOT a Greek. Homer was NOT a Greek. They never had a state nor kingdoms. The first Greek state was formed in 1829 by English and Austrians. Romans later replicated Greek mythology which was previously adopted from indigenous people. Not one Greek was a Roman Emperor but indigenous people gave a couple of dozens (Constantine, Diocletian, Jovian, Justin, Justinian, etc).

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  331. Yee says:

    Zachary Smith,

    China has only a handful of missile submarines, and they are so noisy the US has no trouble tracking them with our excellent attack submarines. Since the US of A has at least 57 of these attack subs, every single Russian and Chinese missile sub could easily have two US boats following it around. Not a good thing if you’re a Russian or Chinese strategist.

    Stealth in the water is not the only way to sink ships or drop missiles on cities… You can do it from the sky nowadays, unlike when submarines were invented. And you don’t need stealth to get close enough to attack, fast and accurate dropping from the sky works better.

    For China and Russia which have space capability, turning to the sky is the obvious solution. When there’s a problem, there’s always a solution…

  332. d dan says:
    @raga10

    “But I’ve won the debate”

    LOL. “Winning” without reply to so many of my points, like in all other threads?

    “You should try it sometime!”

    Thanks for the advice. I have been besieged and ambushed by much larger groups of white trash and anonymous trolls in this site many times. But I don’t cry baby like you. At least all the Chinese commenters have proven history of comments that everyone can look up.

    “… don’t let the door hit you on the way out”

    You sounds angry. But I thought you guys love “freedom of speech”? Couldn’t take it when Chinese fight back? Hahaha, you remind me of one of “Deep Thought” ‘s joke.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  333. denk says:
    @raga10

    I get it. Like I said, you’re becoming more and more like Americans. Now you’re starting to believe in your exceptionalism

    when in a hole , stop digging !

    The metaphor of robber vs shopkeeper is apt,
    cuz
    FUS DESTROYs, CHINA BUILDS

    [MORE]

    Dont blame the tool
    Its the user stupid.

    Everybody knows it….except the exceptionals !

    Oz Not US

    Nope,
    Everybody knows you’r FUS deputy in Asia and you’r damn proud of it.
    There isnt a FUS initiated war that you didnt like.
    There isnt a FUS organised arm gang against China that you aint in….

    ENA,
    QUAD,
    CANZUK
    FUKUSA…

    Tip of an iceberg

    Oz aint FUS,
    so Whats a nice girl like you doing in that company?

    PS
    The deputy is even haughtier than the sheriff these days

    hehehe

    —-

    Well I’d rather have pax FUS than pax sinica

    False choice mate

    We dun need no stinking pax

    Its between a pax FUS where the world no 1 rogue state dictates to the entire world
    vs
    A multipolar world where no one anoint himself the role of judge, prosecutor and executioner.

    But you prefer to hang on to your pax FUS

    Understandable perhaps,
    U are comfy with your FUS led five liar family.
    My tribe right or wrong
    BLood is thicker than water no ?

    All u chinese fuck off back to china

    Showing your true color eh ?

    The Chinese diaspora span from Asia to Africa, Euro, America…all legit immigrants.

    Now those who robbed America, Canada, Oz, NZ, hAiwaii, GUam, Puerto Rico, Marshall island, Falkland ,, Diego Garcia, Okinawa, Jeju, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghan, ….demand these legit Chinese immigrants all over the world to go back to China !

    All the world are belong to Anglo Saxon

    How very exceptional !

  334. denk says:
    @Showmethereal

    Another of my faq

    The mugs in five liars land are fed BS and kept in the dark all day long since birth.
    If you feed them honey they’ll puke and curse you for trying to poison them.

    Exhibit Z

    There was this Indian snake oil pusher who told his gringo mates

    If not for India, China would’ve already swallowed Nepal

    gringo mugs

    Thank mate, we learn something new every day

    ROTFLMAO
    Those gringo mugs thank their dark aryan mates for feeding them cow dung !

    Thats so tragic to me so I told the
    poor dears

    If not for China, India’d have already devoured Nepal, like Sikkim, like BHuta,…

    GUess what ?
    sobs deleted all my posts and called me tianamen butcher

    May be we shouldnt bother to educate these mugs, just let them wallow in their own shit.
    Ignorance is truly bliss to the mushroom club…
    Fed Bs AND kept in the dark all day long

  335. @d dan

    Dunning-Krugerites like raga 10 (his IQ) often claim ‘victory’, simply because they are too fucking dumb to realise that they have been thoroughly squelched. And arguments between partisans on opposite sides are hardly ever ‘won’-it’s just that Yankee Doodle drive to dominate. Why do US sports not countenance draws? Because humanity must be divided into ‘winners’ who ‘take all’, and losers. It’s a manifestation of the hatred of others, the central Judeo-Exceptional psychopathology.

  336. @Anonymous

    Gobekli Tepe in Turkey indicates some sort of civilization several millennia before Sumer, the Indus Valley and the earliest periods of Egyptian civilization. Perhaps they were Greek. The Greek genius came later, but plainly built on Mesopotamian, Egyptian and who knows what other influences.

  337. @Avery

    You’ve gotta read ‘Manufacruring Consent’ by Chomsky (before he went bonkers) and Edward S. Herman, if you haven’t already. Chomsky’s 1988 Massey Lectures on Canadian radio is also good, particularly when he eviscerates the Zionazi scum, Frum, in the Q & A segment.
    Chomsky tells a story of a group of Soviet journalists who visited the USA in the 80s, under glasnost. At the end of their trip across the country, visiting newsrooms, they were asked their impressions.
    One journalist replied that under Stalin, very ‘persuasive’ techniques were sometimes required to get journalist to follow the ‘Party Line’. He asked how it was done in the supposedly ‘free’ USA, where ALL journalists said basically the same thing on most subjects. And that was forty years ago, forty ears in which Western MSM propaganda and Groupthink has become thoroughly entreched ad totalistic.

    • Agree: Avery
  338. @ivan

    No really, they didn’t notice the river was there. Like I said before, they built it ON a river, not NEXT TO a river. They thought they were building a nuclear reactor on Tsunami Beach and using the Pacific Ocean as cooling water. And think about that “cooling water”: who in their right mind throws away hot showers?

  339. @Quartermaster

    Ha! USer militants blunder into the trash they left on their last rampage, or the one before that, or …

  340. @Quartermaster

    The US compulsively, obsessively, has to look for trouble. The US is an aggressor in the South China Sea, East China Sea, Japan Sea, and every ocean. The US is committing acts of violence in the Middle East and Africa.

    • Replies: @Quartermaster
  341. @anon

    The fact is that Chinese always immigrate to countries established and developed by Europeans. They went to Hong Kong and Singapore when those were governed by the British. Now that Hong Kong faces the prospect of being ruled by the CCP, Hong Kongers are fleeing to Western countries.

    The real fact is that the whites always go and grab lands owned by non-white peoples (the Americans, Australia, Africa, India sub-continents… etc). Force non-white people to make the whites rich (slavery in murrika). Kill an entire industry of almost a continent so that their own could dominate (cotton and textile industry in India), plunder the resources of entire continents, (Africa, Australia, etc) and steal the technologies which their wealth and power depend (tea, silk, porcelain, paper-making, printing, gun-powder, gun, rockets, bombs, etc, etc).

    The whites are most inventive when it comes to theft and robbery!

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  342. @Quartermaster

    It looks bad for you when you accept propaganda

    I truly laugh out loud when Americans say things like this.
    It would appear that in USA, there is no such thing as self reflection.

  343. @anon

    You are using economic migrants as a sign of your superiority now? You think all those migrants Merkel invited were attracted by the superior of your civilization or just how easy they can stuff from you?

  344. @anon

    The fact is that Chinese always immigrate to countries established and developed by Europeans. They went to Hong Kong and Singapore when those were governed by the British. Now that Hong Kong faces the prospect of being ruled by the CCP, Hong Kongers are fleeing to Western countries.

    “Developed”….wow, new euphemism for Colonised.

    For your information, Hongkong was part of China that was forced into British rule.

    The Chinese have been in Singapore and the region for centuries before the Europeans arrived. They mixed and intermarried with the locals but NEVER colonised. The reason why the Brits took Singapore as a colony was because it was ALREADY established as a local trading hub before the Brits arrived.

    Hear what a former Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir had to say “We have been trading with the Chinese for 2000 years and they never invaded us. But within 50 years of contact with the Europeans, they had begun colonising us”

    What a rose tinted view you have of Europeans.

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  345. @Hbd investor

    they can’t use sonar for homing because they are faster than sound

    Yeah, yeah, like F1 racing cars can’t go round corners, because they are faster than 300 kph. (sarc)

  346. @littlereddot

    For your information, Hongkong was part of China that was forced into British rule.

    The Chinese have been in Singapore and the region for centuries before the Europeans arrived

    A couple of decades ago, on the SCMP letters page, A Japanese reader suggested that it was the CHINESE in Hong Kong, who made Hong Kong so successful. And he compared it with Britain’s other colonies, as well as with Britain itself, to illustrate his point.

    Also see the following and pay special attention to what Charlie Munger said around 1.05:

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @littlereddot
  347. @Anon

    Who even knows what your positions were for years? You’re an anon.

  348. @raga10

    India now has, what – 3 or 4 nuclear subs of their own

    One. INS Arihant, an entry level boomer. And that was almost wrecked after it submerged with a hatch open, so that it had to spend about a year in repair.

    At the moment there are no Russian nuclear submarines in Indian service, leased or otherwise.

  349. @Anon

    That’s why those things need windshields and rearview mirrors.

  350. anonymous[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @Deep Thought

    You’re testing a different hypothesis. If you want to compare Chinese subjects to other subjects under British rule, then you can argue that Chinese are more talented colonial subjects than Indians, Egyptians, etc. But they are all British subjects at the end of the day. The real hypothesis is whether or not British rule helps Chinese do better compared to Chinese rule. To test that hypothesis, you would compare Chinese under the authority of Chinese leaders vs. Chinese under the authority of the British/Americans. The latter are more successful than the former. Even Chinese living under Chinese leadership still need to invite foreign (mostly British/European) experts to teach them skills, invest in their economy, and help them build up their country. They also have to send their students overseas to learn the skills and knowledge they need to help their country.

    The British built the house. You are a squatter or guest who lives in the house. You are like someone who says, “When I lived in this British house, I made it nicer compared to the Indian and African guests. I painted the walls. I made some nice decorations and hung up some nice pictures on the wall. I did all the chores: took out the garbage, mowed the lawn, etc.” You are still living in a British house designed and built by the British, and you can’t build your own house.

  351. Anon[336] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    I wouldn’t be surprised if other widely-held beliefs such as Flu Hoaxery, anti-Vaxxery, and QAnonism also originally began as political satires…

    You’re exhibiting confusion, Ron. This is a thread feeding an article, not written by you, concerning a boo-boo involving a submarine.

    Please stay on topic.

    Your symptomatic behavior is a public health concern. I understand you may have brain fog related to long-hauler syndrome, or perhaps spike proteins from your vax have settled in your yummy yummy brain.

    Incidentally, have you received your booster yet? If not, I would admonish you to get your booster immediately, otherwise you are considered to be UNVAXXED, thereby posing an OSHA actionable threat here, to both the vaccinated & un-vaccinated alike.

    So please, until you can verify your status to us via an up to date CDC approved vaccination card, please quarantine your MASKED comment activity to your own articles.

  352. @anon

    Chinese learned astronomy from Indians and Arabs and Persians also – and openly state it… And other times China was ahead of them in astronomy – that’s how history works. So What is your point??? It’s only whites you pretend they don’t learn from others.

    • Replies: @The_MasterWang
    , @anon
  353. @raga10

    There goes the reasoning of a 13 year old girl again. If Chinese all belong in China then all whites should be in Europe. So I hope you are in Europe and are calling all whites back – including those in Australia where you claim pro China posters on here are students being watched by the government. Maybe 13 year old is too much… Maybe 11…

  354. @anonymous

    LOLOLOL… I love meeting people like you on here LOLOL.

    Now tell me – if Europe was so great – then how come there is such a huge European diaspora. In total numbers and most certainly by percentage of the population – Europeans have a FAR larger diaspora than Chinese. So what is better? Chinese sending students abroad to learn – or Europeans who in addition to learning robbed and stole and enslaved???

    In any event – I won’t even touch on Singapore as someone already explained why the British wanted it in the first place. But do you have any clue how Hong Kong came about???? Canton (aka Guangzhou) was already one of the great trading places on the planet. The British wanted to be able to trade there. That is the genesis of the Opium Wars in the first place. No doubt China missed the Industrial Revolution and fell behind – but China had been an advanced civilization for most of human history. Fast forward 100 years after the Brits arrived and the Chinese now were getting into full swing of the industrial revolution. Shanghai was a global center. Hong Kong took off as no longer a contraband site – but a global node – when the newly industrialized Shanghai Chinese moved there when the Japanese invaded in the north. Your version of history is highly edited – but it really makes me laugh. I dont even get angry at people like you – I really laugh.

    • Replies: @anon
  355. I am probably simply exhibiting my ignorance/stupidity, but I would like to ask the more knowledgeable contributors to this discussion whether there are cctv cameras on the outside of submarines and if not why not? I take the point that one cannot go snooping around hostile territory using one’s sonar to pick one’s way through the obstacles ahead, but cctv cameras are passive sensors and would not give one’s position away. Equally, (assuming there are none) why are there no windows? Is it impossible to make them strong (aka explosion-proof) enough? The deep-sea research subs have them.

  356. mike99588 says:
    @Yee

    Hard to find a yacht with even one nuke MIRVd ICBM, IRM or SRM

  357. @anonymous

    As a former British colonial subject myself all I care to say is this:

    Maybe we should knock down your house and build one in its place and make you live in it. And you will, when our exploitation mechanisms are set running.

    You do realize words will not save you from what is coming to you?

    • Replies: @anon
  358. @showmethereal

    What is the point? They claim to be the superior race. The only way to refute such a claim is through violence. Prepare, and advocate for war. Sticks and stones break bones. Words do nothing.

  359. @anonymous

    What a prize racist idiot. The condescension is ludicrous and nauseating. The end of White Western global hegemony is sending all the racial supremacists quite mad. What malignant buffoons they are.

  360. @Deep Thought

    Now that the Chinese have finally thrown off the Western yoke they are surpassing the dying Western hegemons with ferocious speed. That pisses off Western racists, and compradore scum like the Hong Kong terrorists who threw in their lot with the White Boss. China is now in the position of being able to ignore the poisonous abuse of Western thugs and drones, and any other Quisling elements who still want to be servants of the West.

  361. anon[163] • Disclaimer says:
    @The_MasterWang

    Maybe we should knock down your house and build one in its place and make you live in it. And you will, when our exploitation mechanisms are set running.

    Your response is so predicatable and sad. Notice what you didn’t say. You could’ve said, “I already have a house. It’s called China. And I’m proudly going to go back there.” You could’ve said, “We don’t need you. We have China, and it’s enough.” Instead, you react like an immature child, larping as Sun Tzu, and threatening to kill and destroy. Oo, I’m so scared now. LOL

    You want to kill the master of the house, who raised you from birth and taught you to be civilized, because you realized he’s not your biological father but your adopted father. The former actually treated you like shit and abandoned you at birth in a dumpster – think Qing Dynasty emperors and Mandarins, Mao’s China, triad gangster bosses, etc. LOL

    • Troll: d dan
  362. TSS says:
    @anon

    Welcome back, Smith.

    • Replies: @Smith
  363. anon[163] • Disclaimer says:
    @showmethereal

    Can you read? Or are you so limited by your us-vs-them mentality that everything is seen as an attack on China? The point was that Sino-Western relations go back to ancient times, and they’ve usually been peaceful and based on mutual respect. They didn’t start with the Opium Wars, let alone the Trump trade wars. The Italian astronomers who were being referenced came to China during the Middle Ages. There were also foreign missionaries, traders, and scholars who came to China during the Tang and Han dynasties. Sino-Western relations are not easily reducible to sensationalized headlines that come and go over the course of short news cycles.

    • Troll: Showmethereal
  364. anon[163] • Disclaimer says:
    @showmethereal

    Now tell me – if Europe was so great – then how come there is such a huge European diaspora. In total numbers and most certainly by percentage of the population – Europeans have a FAR larger diaspora than Chinese. So what is better? Chinese sending students abroad to learn – or Europeans who in addition to learning robbed and stole and enslaved???

    Now this is funny. There’s no European “diaspora.” The Europeans built nations and countries from nothing. They crossed the vast oceans at tremendous risk and went to virgin territory where they had to cultivate the land, extract minerals, clear the forests, hazard terrible weather conditions, and develop the infrastructure from the ground up, all the while getting threatened and scalped by uncivilized natives unwilling to make peace. The USA, Australia, New Zealand, etc. are NATIONS, not diaspora communities. It’s the Chinese who go to nations that have already been built-up and developed by other people (mostly Europeans). The British who settled North America didn’t steal a nation because there was no nation to steal, only mostly unsettled land. Do you understand this distinction? Chinese “sending students abroad to learn” is predicated on there being nations that ALREADY exist because of the hard work of the European settlers. If Chinese people had such strong objections to the land being stolen, then they wouldn’t send their kids to schools in Australia, New Zealand, USA, Canada, etc. now would they? So stop pretending that you care about the Native Americans in the USA – you don’t. You don’t even care about the native people of Taiwan, the Tibetans, the Uighurs. What about Singapore? It was territory that belong to the Malays. Singapore only exists because the Chinese are too racist to co-exist with the ethnic Malay people, who rioted in the 60s against the Chinese (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_race_riots_in_Singapore).

    but China had been an advanced civilization for most of human history

    It was okay. It’s not my fault China couldn’t move beyond being a mostly rural, agrarian economy headed by a hereditary monarch. They had thousands of years to prove themselves. The best they could do was absolute monarchy, decade after decade, century after century. It was like after one dynasty fell, the Chinese didn’t know what to do and couldn’t think outside the box. Han dynasty is over. What do we do? Let’s just set up another dynasty. Oh no, the Tang dynasty is over. What do we do? How about another dynasty. Rinse and repeat. Same thing over and over again. It’s not my fault they didn’t consider experimenting with fairer and more just economic and political systems. That’s the best they could do in the past 2000+ years. Left to their own devices, Chinese just compete with each other in cold, callous disregard for human life until there’s one top dog left standing. That’s how it is in mainland China, Taiwan, Singapore, triads, Chinatowns all over the world. It’s a gangster culture where everyone fights and competes to the death until one person rules and everyone else is left struggling and working like a slave. Sorry, but that’s who Chinese people are. Chinese are smart.
    But altruism was never their strong suit. Their problem is not intellectual, it’s moral and spiritual.

  365. Ocko says:
    @Notsofast

    The Russians and the Chinese a few years ago had a contract about hypersonic weapons, which also included the detection of undersea objects.

    That system is obviously operational.

    As Russia and China have plenty of connections recently they even made military maneuvers together to start, there is block forming.

    Russia and China are obviously forming a defense block which also encompasses many states in Asia.

    It seems that the USA is outgunned and it looks that the Nato falls apart as the European branch has many connection to Russia and China.

  366. @anon

    Sticks and stones.
    Not words.

  367. 迪路 says:
    @anon

    It is clear that you have not identified the priorities of the problems that should be addressed. And your view can be said to represent the usual western arrogance and prejudice, you are obviously a one-sided interpretation of Chinese history. I don’t want to argue with you about this.
    So I’m just asking you a simple question. Are you willing to be manipulated by deep State? Will you continue to overspend, your child become gay, infected with HIV, and take drugs, and eventually tear your family apart?
    Or your child was raped by a transgender gay man, but you can’t get justice?
    Having the right values is good for the development of all mankind, at least I don’t want to see the end of mankind because of this political correctness in 300 years

    • Replies: @mike99588
  368. Ocko says:
    @raga10

    Most Trucks nowadays have a radar which stops the truck automatically. This anti collision devise isn’t new.

    If American U-boats don’t have one that would be a stupid omission

    • Replies: @The_MasterWang
  369. @foolisholdman

    No, of course they don’t. There’s a difference between a slow moving research sub meant to examine and photograph things at close distances and a fast weapon of war.

  370. @Deep Thought

    Yes, further to this, there is one experiment one can try….

    Write down the list of SE Asian countries with percentage of Chinese population in descending/ascending order.

    Next write down on that list the per capita GDP of the country.

    Very interesting result. But I am sure many people will get insulted by the result.

    • Replies: @d dan
  371. @anon

    Singapore only exists because the Chinese are too racist to co-exist with the ethnic Malay people, who rioted in the 60s against the Chinese

    If this had happened in the USA, the Malays would have been put into “Reservations”. Strangely, the racist majority Chinese in Singapore didn’t do it.

    Fast forward 50 years, now the Malays are visibly proud to be Singaporean. They see how much better off they are compared to their kin in Malaysia. This is to some measure of irritation their cousins in Malay majority Malaysia.

    Now this is funny. There’s no European “diaspora.” The Europeans built nations and countries from nothing.

    True, no “diaspora”. They simply stole whole continents from their native populations. Now they fancy themselves to be protectors of the Uighurs, Tibetans and Taiwanese. How hypocritical.

    Take ye first the speck from thine eye, so that ye may better remove the beam from thine brother’s

    But alas, the West no longer follow the wise words of their Christ.

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • LOL: Deep Thought
  372. d dan says:
    @littlereddot

    “the list of SE Asian countries”

    But, but, but the highest per capita GDP are those nations “built and developed” by the white people, at least that is the logic of the anonymous trolls and white supremacists. Even though almost all the nations in the world were colonized by the whites, they would take credits ONLY for those successful ones – many actually built and developed by the Chinese and East Asians – while ignoring all the miserable failures, the so-called “shit holes” countries (according to a white President) everywhere else in the world.

    Even in the US, the state of California could become one of the highest per capita GDP only because of the contributions of generations of Chinese and many non-white foreigners. Now compare California with those flyover states per capita GDP where the majority are whites.

    “many people will get insulted by the result.”

    No, they won’t. They will find many excuses and reasons to deny those numbers.

  373. Anonymous[407] • Disclaimer says:

    Chinese came to Xinjiang in the 6th c. AC, Uighurs in 842 AC. Before them, for 2000 years some other people lived there. Who were they? Did they give the name to Chinese? Maybe Xinjiang and Tibet’s toponyms can give the answer?

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  374. @anon

    LOLOL.. The laughs keep coming. The scary thing is though that you actually believe what you wrote. I will laugh some more – but then eventually get sad when I see how maniacal some people can be. Wow – so you really believe Europe was the Garden of Eden and Europeans went out on a global improvement project. All I can say is “wow”. I see others already answered you some of your folly – so I will save my energy…

  375. I’m sure there are multiple nuclear bombs inside US territory belonging to Russia, China and maybe other parties. If respective countries’ interests are seriously infringed upon by the US, one or more of these bombs will go off. Of course, not in the wilderness, but in major urban centers. Playing dirty goes both ways. Then there are also bio weapons, etc. I don’t know what the US is thinking, but they are either amateurs, or suicidal, or blinded by hubris. The US can suffer a major incident without a war breaking out, and without any evidence about whodunit.

  376. @anonymous

    To test that hypothesis, you would compare Chinese under the authority of Chinese leaders vs. Chinese under the authority of the British/Americans.

    Then your should compare Singapore with Hong Kong:

    If the Brit had done anything good, they would sabotage it when it is time for them to leave. Think India/Pakistan, and Hong Kong

    The latter are more successful than the former.

    The latter WERE more successful than the former– but then, 300 years ago, the former WAS also more successful then the latter. Being willingly blind to the world’s largest high-speed train networks, 5G, space station, etc does NOT actually make yours better.

    Are you a 1/2 year old, whose concept of existence/time is only the PRESENT instant?

    Even Chinese living under Chinese leadership still need to invite foreign (mostly British/European) experts to teach them skills, invest in their economy, and help them build up their country. They also have to send their students overseas to learn the skills and knowledge they need to help their country.

    The Chinese do pay for all such services. When the Europeans got from the non-whites the inventions, skills they needed, and used, to advance their societies before the modern era, they simply stole them.

    BTW, the West did not “invest in China’s economy”. Those who really INVESTed there were the Chinese diaspora, who genuinely wanted to help their fellow Chinese and made their pots of gold while doing so. Seeing that, the Japs, murrikans and, belatedly, the Europeans following the smell of money and “invested” in China– because, if they didn’t do so, they would be out-competed by, and lose out to, their competitors who DID. It was NOT done out of kindness.

    The British built the house. You are a squatter or guest who lives in the house. You are like someone who says…

    You stole the land, but never built the house. The actual building work was done by others. Here is an example of those who ACTUALLY came to live in the house YOU have built:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huddersfield_grooming_gang

    That should happen more often.

    …, and you can’t build your own house.

    It is funny you say that and it betrays you stupidity. I can’t remember the exact figures but China has moved between 500 to 700 people from rural villages into cities in the past 3 decades. One article I read said that China had built the equivalent of 2 Europes just to accommodate them!!!

    It is time to take a good look at your own country. When I was there in the early 1980’s, Britain was the only country outside the US that could build a microprocessor– the “Transputer” made by Inmos. China was still one of the poorest country in the world then.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  377. @Deep Thought

    China has moved between 500 to 700 people from rural villages into cities in the past 3 decades.

    Should be:

    “China has moved between 500 to 700 million people from rural villages into cities in the past 3 decades.”

    • Replies: @anon
  378. @Anonymous

    Before the Han Chinese went to Xinjiang, it was inhabited by the Xiongnu, who regularly invaded, raided, plundered the settled people of Han China.

    By the time of Han Wudi, Han China was powerful enough to do something about it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han%E2%80%93Xiongnu_War

    Han China brought part of the Xiongnu into submission, evicted those who refused to submit and claimed their land by the Principle of Reciprocity.

    Now, give me evidence that the “Red Indians” of North America, or the “Aborigines” of Australia, had invaded, plundered,… Europe, which might give the Europeans the excuse to rob these natives of them homelands!!!

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  379. mike99588 says:
    @迪路

    Traitor Joe the Occupant appears to be literally a paid agent/asset of the CCP.

    Whither all that CCP China money (\$B) that Hunter and Joe’s brother scarfed up. The Chinese that I know are not known for overpaying …

    • Replies: @迪路
  380. mike99588 says:
    @d dan

    “Even in the US, the state of California could become one of the highest per capita GDP only because of the contributions of generations of Chinese and many non-white foreigners.”

    Your “only because…” is a huge leap to a speculative conclusion.
    Of course coolie labor was remarkably cheap. But we could have build a lot of California with blacks, but since Lincoln drove up their labor and management costs, coolies were more efficient.

    And frankly I’d rather screw the average Asian girl over the average groid.

  381. @anon

    Instead, you react like an immature child

    You react like a 1/2 year-old child, whose concept of existence is the PRESENT moment:

    https://www.unz.com/article/cover-up-of-u-s-nuclear-sub-collision-in-south-china-sea/#comment-4993506

    You want to kill the master of the house, who raised you from birth and taught you to be civilized, because you realized he’s not your biological father but your adopted father.

    No one, REPEAT no one, wants to kill the white masters of the British house, when there is far, far more fun to “groom” them! And the British system is so “civilised” that this is allowed to go on and on and on… 😀

    https://news.sky.com/story/grooming-gangs-continuing-to-abuse-children-in-northern-england-victims-and-campaigners-warn-12158336

  382. Anonymous[407] • Disclaimer says:
    @Deep Thought

    @DT So, some people lived in Xinjiang for couple thousands of years before Chinese came in the 6th c.AC. Which language they spoke? From which language originated thousands of Tibetan and Xinjiang toponyms? This cannot be found in wiki, I can give you several hundreds, which can be easily verified?

  383. @Anonymous

    some people lived in Xinjiang for couple thousands of years before Chinese came in the 6th c.AC. Which language they spoke

    What languages did they speak in North America before 15th Century?

    From your argument, you have given the Chinese more claim to Xinjiang than the Americans have to “America”.

    Please do not let the Uighurs see your argument. They would not be pleased with your “help”.

    • Agree: Deep Thought
  384. Anonymous[415] • Disclaimer says:
    @littlereddot

    I am not trying to give Americans, neither North nor South, (nor Australians) any right to conquer the lands of indigenous people. I am not advocating any Uighurs’ rights; it is known exactly (842) when they came. I am not trying to reverse Chinese colonization of Xinjiang in the 6th c.AC or ask for some compensations for this. But we should know who were the people who lived there before, which language they spoke, what was their culture, what has happened with them. Who were ‘Northern people’ mentioned in Chinese historiography and in recent Chinese phd theses? Were they ‘Europeans’? Why we don’t know anything about these topics? I may write more when such thread is open.

  385. @Anonymous

    Which language they spoke? From which language originated thousands of Tibetan and Xinjiang toponyms?

    Why should I care what language they spoke? If you can’t find it in wiki, why don’t you go and FIND it in kiwi that they spoke English?!!

    One point is CLEAR though, like the Xiongnu, some English speaking pimple

    https://www.abebooks.co.uk/book-search/title/a-history-of-the-english-speaking-peoples/author/winston-churchill/

    also invaded and plundered China when the latter was weak and in decline. Now that Xi Wudi is in charge of a resurgent China, one is tempted to ask the question, “What will China do?”

  386. @Anonymous

    Han people were in Xinjiang before Uighurs… That is a fact of history… Tang Dynasty China allowed the Uighurs to stay there because they were good at fighting against the Tibetans and Mongols. A lot happened through the centuries but there is no dispute Han got there before Uighurs were even a known ethnic group in Central Asia…. The original inhabitants no longer exist. And actually – the majority of Uighurs have no problem being part of China. The separatists have been quieted down. You can go visit there and see for yourself.

  387. @Anonymous

    Who were ‘Northern people’ mentioned in Chinese historiography and in recent Chinese phd theses? Were they ‘Europeans’? Why we don’t know anything about these topics? I may write more when such thread is open.

    As far as I can tell, this thread IS open. Why don’t you just do what you want and push your “hypothesis” that those people were “Europeans”– NOT that it can affect the Principle of Reciprocity, even if they were INDEED Europeans!

  388. @mike99588

    And frankly I’d rather screw the average Asian girl over the average groid.

    Might as well. Our groid brothers spend all their time servicing coal-burners and have no time for you!

    • LOL: littlereddot
    • Replies: @anon
  389. Resartus says:
    @Anonymous

    it is known exactly (842) when they came.

    An item which has no relevance to the question….
    Real dates that matter, is when they became Muslim and
    When the Chinese became Communist….
    Two systems that go together was well as fire and water…..

  390. anon[197] • Disclaimer says:
    @Deep Thought

    Is that you prof?

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  391. anon[197] • Disclaimer says:
    @showmethereal

    You show your true colors here. You hate WION because they tell the truth about China. But for you, no criticism of China (whether from the West, India, or anywhere else) is acceptable. China can do no wrong. It is paradise on earth.

  392. anon[197] • Disclaimer says:
    @Deep Thought

    Haha… you respond to your own posts. And why are you so fond of quoting Lee Kuan Yew? It doesn’t help your case. He’s the most notorious Asian racist of all time. It says a about Singapore that it’s founder was such a bigoted human being.

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/lee-kuan-yews-hard-truths/

    Lee even invoked genetics to justify his enforced racial harmony and service distribution: “The Bell curve is a fact of life. The blacks on average score 85 per cent on IQ and it is accurate, nothing to do with culture. The whites score on average 100. Asians score more … the Bell curve authors put it at least 10 points higher. These are realities that, if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending money on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow,” he said in 1997, in an interview for the book “Lee Kuan Yew: The Man and His Ideas.”

    “If I tell Singaporeans – we are all equal regardless of race, language, religion, culture, then they will say, ‘Look, I’m doing poorly. You are responsible.’ But I can show that from British times, certain groups have always done poorly, in mathematics and in science. But I’m not God, I can’t change you …” That was in 2002, in the book “Success Stories.”

    And in 2011, in his book “Hard Truths,” we read:

    “People get educated, the bright ones rise, they marry equally well-educated spouses. The result is their children are smarter than those who are gardeners. Not that all the children of gardeners are duds. Occasionally two grey horses produce a white horse but very few. If you have two white horses, the chances are you breed white horses. It’s seldom spoken publicly because those who are NOT white horses say, ‘You’re degrading me’. But it’s a fact of life. You get a good mare, you don’t want a dud stallion to breed with your good mare. You get a poor foal. Your mental capacity and your EQ and the rest of you, 70 to 80% is genetic. ”

    Lee Kuan Yew, who blames colonialism when Chinese do poorly vis-a-vis Whites. Lee Kuan Yew, who blames genetics and race when Malays, Indians, and other races do poorly vis-a-vis Chinese.

  393. hotrod31 says:
    @Anon

    It is worth mentioning that the US and Israel have quite obviously shelved the idea of NOT using nuclear weapons (in anger) because there is ample evidence of these weapons having been used in Falujia, WTC1-2 and Lebanon. Only ostriches couldn’t have noticed. Granted that the nukes weren’t used in a prolonged attack on another country … but suffice it to say that an attack on your own people, or an oppressed neighbour is warfare, by deception.

  394. @anon

    WION is well known propaganda… Muslims in China are treated far better than Muslims in Indian controlled areas. That’s a fact.

    • Replies: @Anon
  395. Anonymous[407] • Disclaimer says:

    Pretty good discussion. Some, who were lagging, slowly are catching up. What is the common ground? Everyone is agreeing that some people lived there before Chinese colonisation of Xinjiang (and Tibet) and these people do not exist (!) anymore. It is interesting that no one is interested in these people who lived on this soil much longer than Chinese. These people even gave the name to Chinese (any objection?). For almost 1000 years they had on/off relationships with Chinese, sometimes wars and often were allies against Mongols. Sometimes they were protecting Chinese from Mongols and got paid for this protection. Pretty long and interesting history which still did not reach the wiki. But, it seems that there is no intellectual curiosity here, the most are interested just in daily politics. It is not strange why, for e.g. after 200 years of research we still do not know who were Aryans and if they existed at all.

    • Replies: @littlereddot
  396. @Ocko

    Radar, you say?

    Of course a submarine wouldn’t have one. Any active detection system is a big red target on yourself.

  397. Anon[625] • Disclaimer says:
    @showmethereal

    Well known according to whom? You? To Chinese people? Amything you disagree with or goes against the narrative of the Chinese government is basically propaganda for you. Only the Chinese government tells the truth. Got it.

    Calling something propaganda is not an argument. You can say that about pretty much anything. It’s like accusing a person of having bias. It’s a generic accusation. Everyone has bias. When you label a news outlet from your geopolitical enemy as “propaganda,” is that not itself propaganda?

    I will give you guys credit for one thing though. You do go against the majority of Chinese academics, scholars, and government officials by claiming that the Greeks didn’t exist, weren’t responsible for the rise of Western civilization, weren’t very bright, etc, etc among other silly claims that Chinese academics themselves reject. I guess you guys do go outside the reservation sometimes

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  398. @foolisholdman

    When you are hiding why would you emit any light? It’s dark under water your cameras can’t see much.

  399. @Anon

    If you don’t know why WION is a propaganda channel then it is a waste of time even talking to you…. Pretty much like the rest of your comment. Someone who can’t discern the folly of WION is not even worth debating. It has nothing to do with them being anti China… They have plenty of stuff on there that is just pure garbage… Anything that doesn’t fit their hyper nationalistic views. They attack all and sundry on there. The fact you don’t know that – again – doesn’t even make it worth having a discussion with you. They are Breitbart on steroids.

  400. d dan says:
    @showmethereal

    ” it is a waste of time even talking to you”

    They are very frustrated that China and India have NOT started a war in their border. They are hoping you/Chinese commenters and the Indian commenters can contribute toward that goal.

    Pretty obvious, especially when they are hiding behind anon625, 407, 197, 415,…

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • Replies: @Deep Thought
    , @Anonymous
  401. d dan says:
    @mike99588

    “Your “only because…” is a huge leap to a speculative conclusion.”

    No, it is NOT. You only know about the transcontinental railway (a very important project), but Chinese also contributed significantly to the Sacramental delta project, which provided water for the important food industry, making California the largest food producer today. Chinese labors also worked in the wine, fishing, and agriculture industries. The modern day high tech industry in Silicon Valley also relies heavily on Chinese (as entrepreneurs, innovators or engineers) as well as its connection to the Asian supplies chain and market.

    Notice I mentioned non-whites’ contributions to California GDP. The agricultural manual labors have been replaced with Hispanics (considered non-white by many). Indian is also another significant group as engineers and managers in Silicon Valley. Of course, Jews (again many of you ranted about them as non-white) control the Hollywood too. So pretty much most of the wealth creators industries in California relies on non-whites.

    “we could have build a lot of California with blacks,”

    I already knew the excuses are coming. Yeah, this has been officially recorded as the 42,728th entry in the “Global Registrar of Lame White’s Excuses”

    It is doubtful that black slave could build the transcontinental railway. And even if they could, it would still be built and developed by non-whites. Still a point for the non-white.

    “I’d rather screw the average…”

    Nobody cares about your fucking preferences. But continue the racist taunt and waste the bandwidth if that makes you feel more secure and important. The degradation of the quality and reputation in this thread does not affect me.

    • Agree: Mulga Mumblebrain
    • Replies: @mike99588
  402. Anon[625] • Disclaimer says:
    @showmethereal

    Yeah, sure, it’s not the “anti China stuff” that upsets you on a deep emotional level. I’m sure it’s WION’s take on stubble burning and lab food the offends you most. LOL or maybe it was their coverage of Djokovic being disqualified that was the breaking point and made it deal breaker. Definitely NOT their coverage of China! ROFL You’re funny kid. I give you credit though for trying to have some intellectual integrity.

    As for trying to get India/China to start a war….see comment #398. Firstly, I’m not the one on Singapore streets harassing Indian men who date Chinese girls. There are Chinese professors who do that. I’m not the one calling middle-aged Malay men “Islam dogs” on the Singapore subway. Those are Chinese 阿姨s doing that. I’m not the one saying Malays are unsuccessful because of low IQ and genetics. That would be Lee Kuan Yew. I don’t have to make people upset with Chinese because Chinese do that naturally by being their racist, insecure selves.

    I’m not even fully white, and I’ve had Chinese give me dirty looks, make underhanded comments, and act threatening just for talking to Chinese girls who weren’t even my girlfriend (and I wasnt even flirting either). Start a war? How about you just leave every country where you bring your anthill diaspora communities? By your own admission, Chinese go all over the world and set up self-segregating fifth columns. How about just go back to the glorious fatherland that is now the new superpower? Groids are your brothers? Non-whites are your brothers? You wanna talk about funny, now that’s funny

    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  403. denk says:

    Justin Raimondo

    I saw the news that about 20 protesters showed up at a demonstration protesting the Ehime Maru incident, and I think you guys are going to have to do better than that! Come on, now, get it together: get up off your knees, Japanese! Isn’t it time to throw the Americans out of your country

    [1]

    Raimondo’d be corkscrewing in his grave seeing this…

    [MORE]

    PS
    somebody should do an autopsy on Raimondo,
    RIP

    PS
    NOte to commenters…
    Keep on topics,
    Only issues on native Americans, Oz, canada, NZ, Haiwaii, GUam,Puerto Rico, Marshall island, falkland, OKinawa, Jeju, Diego Garcia, ,,…….would be accepted.

    All bleating on Uighurs,Tibet, etc etc would most likely be thrashed

    [1]
    https://www.antiwar.com/justin/j022301.html

  404. @showmethereal

    WION and that insufferable wannabe Parvati (I’m sure I saw her on the sculptures at the Khajaruho temples entertaining a donkey) who hosts it occasionally have interesting stuff. Their vids concerning Pfizer’s rapacious ‘contracts’ for supply of their gene therapy injections are good. WION represents that odious sub-section of Indian elite opinion that simply cannot abide that, having begun from similar bases in the late 40s (in fact China was far more devastated)India and China’s progress since has been so unalike. China has boomed, and India stagnated and descended into fascism, while licking the West’s boots.

  405. @littlereddot

    People have lived in Xinjiang for tens of millennia, and other Homo species even longer. They are the ancestors of a whole stack of people, including Australian indigenous, Polynesians, and probably even Uighurs and Han Chinese.

  406. @anon

    LKY didn’t come up with NEP and Melayu dominance/privileges you know.

    All that finger pointing at racism….LOL. please buy a mirror so you can look at yourself.

  407. @mike99588

    I’d rather screw the average Asian girl

    It has been my experience that men who get plenty of Sweet Loving, don’t need to brag about it.

    • Replies: @mike99588
  408. @Anonymous

    You mean the excavations of the red haired people in Central Asia? Their genes live on in the populations there, just like Denisovan and Neanderthal genes live on in us.

    Anyways these red haired people or their kin probably invaded North India and Europe. How European are they? Dunno, ask the pre IndoEuropean speaking peoples there like the Finns and Basques. What makes a European? Language? Skin colour? Culture?

  409. @anon

    Typical Hindian propaganda!

    The following is genuine racial genocide through the dilution of the minority genes by the force of RAPE. In modern times, only physical genocides in North America, Australia, and those by conducted the NAZI’s and Jap’s surpasses it:

    https://www.outlookindia.com/website/story/indian-army-rape-us/296634

    • Agree: Showmethereal
    • Replies: @Mehool Mehta
  410. @anon

    Haha… you respond to your own posts.

    Hehe.. It is a correction of a typing error. I missed the word “million” in the previous post:

    https://www.unz.com/article/cover-up-of-u-s-nuclear-sub-collision-in-south-china-sea/#comment-4993552

    And you still fail to catch the mistake even when I spell it out explicitly? Do you suffer from some IQ problem? Maybe, LKY was right about YOU (singular) after all.

  411. @d dan

    Agree. This is what Prime Minister Modi said:

    ‘Neither anyone has intruded into our territory nor taken over any post’

    https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/china-did-not-enter-indian-territory-pm-modi/1883565

    Me think that some elements of the Indian border force took orders NOT from New Delhi, but from Washington DC!

  412. @anon

    Not that I agree with that racist Chinese guy, but racism is not restricted to the ethnic Chinese:

    “Because our society is obsessed with white skin. If I had married a white man, I would have gained more friends and society’s approval too.”

    Mr Davis believes that the discrimination is solely “because I am a black man”.

    “It’s because I am from Africa, I am a Nigerian. I think Indians see us as inferior.”

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-21826366

  413. Anonymous[407] • Disclaimer says:
    @d dan

    You did mention my Anon number as one of some people/groups who are hiding for some reason and wish to see the war between China and India. You have no idea what my background is, and I am pretty sure that you are very curious. Let see, if you answer one of my questions, e.g. who Aryans were? or any other or, if you reveal your background, I will reveal my background, too. Or, you can take some of these thousands of Xinjiang/Tibet toponyms, put in Google translator and you will get the result.
    @ littlereddot – an award question for you – who were European indigenous people (i.e. the oldest language and culture)?

    • Replies: @d dan
  414. @d dan

    You do realise that white racists are the target demographic of this site? Not one voice from the other side of the aisle is ever permitted expression, but for example VDare – which posited last year that Covid only affects east Asians – is always welcome.

    • Replies: @Hbd investor
  415. @anon

    Let’s see.

    WION is owned by the Essel Group.

    Essel is owned by Subhas Chandra.

    Subhas Chandra is a member of Parliament from Modi’s BJP.

    WION vomits out anti Chinese and anti Pakistani propaganda on an industrial level but is defeaningly silent about Russia, whom Modi continues to woo. For example it repeated the canard as nauseum that “China flew planes in Taiwanese airspace” but is completely silent about the joint Russian and Chinese exercises and their freedom of navigation cruise through the Tsugaru Straits. Or, for that matter, that India is importing more than ever from China and that its trade deficit versus Beijing has already hit \$47 billion this year.

    I’m sure this is a total coincidence. Right?

    • Thanks: Showmethereal
    • Replies: @anon
  416. @Deep Thought

    Yes, as Rahul Gandhi responded, “who were our troops fighting then, and where were they killed?”

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  417. 迪路 says:
    @mike99588

    CCP is not in a position to bribe foreign dignitaries. At least in China they are fighting a bunch of capitalists and the Soros Foundation trying to spread LGBTQ, BLM, drugs.
    If you have a problem, you should talk to Wall Street’s deep state, especially the Rockefellers, who fund LGBTQ, BLM projects.
    As for why Joe is saving money in China, it’s just to trick you poor people into hating the Chinese. Given a few apparent facts, ordinary people will believe what appears to be on the surface. In fact, capitalists all over the world are the same. If you think Joe is saving money in China, it must be the work of Chinese traitors.

    • Replies: @mike99588
  418. @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    Can you give a link to your quote? Thanks in advance.

  419. @Deep Thought

    The quote is slightly different from what I said above. I was quoting from memory.

  420. anon[163] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    Let’s see.

    Literally ALL of Chinese media is owned by the CCP.

    Chinese state media vomits out anti-Indian, anti-Japanese, anti-American….really, anti-foreigner propaganda all the time. It’s deafeningly silent on Israeli human rights abuse and aggression against the Palestinians as it tries to avoiding offending a powerful interest group in the US and seeks to woo Jewish investors. It is deafeningly silent about how Chinese nationals continue to flock to the US seeking job, investment, and education opportunities because it doesn’t want people to view the US in a positive light (and it is deafeningly silent about how Chinese immigrants to the US have prospered enormously because it wants Chinese people to see themselves as victims of American influence, not beneficiaries in any way). State-controlled media in general (though not necessarily always mainstream but still state-controlled) repeats ad nauseum canards that foreigners are COVID-carriers and super spreaders, that Americans use GM crops to poison Chinese people, that Taiwan is unsafe and chaotic (and, in fact, that the whole world outside China is chaotic and disorderly), that the Dalai Lama wants independence for Tibet (when he doesn’t), that India is invading China and claiming Chinese territory, that Filipinos are terrorists, that Tibet and Xinjiang represent paradise on Earth for ethnic Uighurs and Tibetans, that Japanese are maniacal and bloodthirsty colonial invaders, that the DPP and Tsai Ing-wen want independence (when they don’t), that Taiwanese people want to be reunited with China (when they don’t, except for a minority of people, usually over the age of 70 and whose parents immigrated from the mainland), that foreigners in China are constantly on the prowl for Chinese women, that blacks bring drugs, crime, and violence, etc,etc.

    So what’s your point?

  421. @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    Any speech that is banned is the targeted demographic for unz

    This can range from anti Vax, genetics of intelligence, genocide denial, anything that goes against mainstream and would typically get nuked on any discussion site like reddit or Twitter

    No unz does not cater to WN

  422. Yee says:

    Anonymous[407] ,

    Everyone is agreeing that some people lived there before Chinese colonisation of Xinjiang (and Tibet) and these people do not exist (!) anymore. It is interesting that no one is interested in these people who lived on this soil much longer than Chinese.

    Actually, Chinese histroy has pretty detail records of the dozens or hundreds of tribes lived in the area. It’s not interesting at all, just like tribes everywhere on earth, they fought aganist each other.

    When one tribe grew strong enough conquering all other tribes, they moved to invade Han area. Sometimes they lost (Hun, Turk), and their land became China. Sometimes they won (Mongol, Manchu ), and their land became China too. Actually, they won the last 2 wars. So, the truth is they colonized China.

    In any case, if every ancient tribe should have a state, then Europe and the Sub-Continent should have a thousand states.

  423. mike99588 says:
    @迪路

    Your CCP newsfeed is different than ours.

    • Replies: @迪路
  424. mike99588 says:
    @d dan

    d dan, everybody knows the Chinese worked their asses off and have a huge IQ advantage over the groid.

    The question is necessity for any particular manual labor on 19th century white business or engineering projects.

  425. @anon

    My point is that WION is BJPganda and has absolutely nothing to do with reality.

    Are you playing the game of “they use propaganda so we use propaganda “? You were claiming that WION tells the truth when it is provably Modiganda with no relationship to facts or reality.

    • Replies: @anon
  426. @Hbd investor

    Show me where articles attacking white racism were posted by unz, which routinely posts white racists like Derbyshire and Anglin.

    • Replies: @Hbd investor
  427. d dan says:
    @Anonymous

    “You have no idea what my background is, and I am pretty sure that you are very curious.”

    Don’t flatter yourself.

  428. @foolisholdman

    It looks like you want a technical reply

    It is extremely dark underwater so you cannot see anything without a extremely powerful light source

    This will produce noise, in fact running any electronic device will produce noise

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetically_induced_acoustic_noise

    And the noise is proportionate to how much energy is being used, if you ever listened very closely to a very powerful 20000 lumen led light you will hear humming or buzzing

    And I would suspect for a seawolf at max operating depths you would need 2 of these just to see a couple of feet in front of you

    And these lights use a lot of electricity, and you Don’t want to use a lot of electricity because a nuke reactor makes noise when it is at full power and makes less noise the more you power it down.

    And for your submarine you want the outside surface to be perfectly smooth and in one piece so that the water flows easily around it, you don’t want drag that can produce noise

    Basically it is unlikely to help you because the distance that you can see is so short

    And adding more electrical load and devices will increase the noise by a lot

    As well as driving up costs like crazy

  429. @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    Pretty sure articles attacking white racism are allowed in all the msm outlets and is not banned or restricted speech and is actually encouraged

  430. @Anon

    What a clown. Indian media gets its help from Operation Mockingbird. To manipultate the public – you give them true stories and intermingle them with propaganda. Go look up what manufacturing consent through he media really means. As to the rest of your comment – you sound like a frustrated teenager who got beaten up. Did you live in Hong Kong and mess with a triad girlfriend or something? I come on this forum for serious discussion… No time for your folly.
    but you are partially right that Chinese go around the world and self segregate… Well that should assuage you and the people at WION and Breitbart and the Wall St Journal in knowing that Chinese have no desire to rule over whites or indians… So you proved the false propaganda and didnt even realize it.

  431. @Deep Thought

    Yes I would very uch believe hat segments of the Indian border guard take their orders from DC (Langley)… When the CIA tried to stage their uprising in Tibet in the 1950’s they indeed workered with Indian border security – which is how the Dalai Lama and his band of merry theives were able to escape when it failed – and set up shop there. They tried to use Nepal too but Nepalese authorities got wind amd shut it down. But we have seen elsewhere in the world all you need to do is buy out a general or a commander and you an start a world of trouble. But such is the strength of US propaganda that even PM Modi came out and stated that China never crossed (i wonder of Beijing showed him the later released video that proved it) but yet all around the english speaking globe it is repeated that “China is the aggressor”. It is almost unbelievable how effective US psyops works. You have to hand it to them.
    Also recall publicly the Russian FM warned the Indian FM not to fall into the trap “others” had laid to cause friction between India and China. Sounded to me he was peaking from “intelligence” gathered. But the Indian FM rebuffed him…

    But yeah i dont want to stray too far from the original topic of this thread.

  432. @anon

    People who dont work for the anti China lobby have vey different facts… One a former US marine and another a simple Muslim tourists… Dozens more with no connection to China but hate lies. YouTube makes sure they get little traction while anti China conten gets a big boost in the algorithms

    • Replies: @anon
  433. @denk

    Other than showing you can spell “ass” and make a fool of yourself by showing off your willful ignorance, what is the point of your post?

    The Chinese pilot that was killed by his own clownish stupidity was not form the ROC, but was a Red Chinese pilot.

    • Replies: @Resartus
    , @denk
  434. @The_MasterWang

    The facts say something that is uncomfortable for you. That’s your problem, not mine.

  435. @Badger Down

    What a doofus. China is the aggressor in the West Philippine sea. It takes a special kind of idiot to refuse to see what is in front of your face.

    The US has no need to look for trouble. Dictatorships, like Red China, provide more than enough trouble for anyone.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  436. anon[161] • Disclaimer says:
    @Showmethereal

    This is your idea of “serious discussion” on this forum?

    Some bugman YouTuber giving his opinions on geopolitics is to be believed over the entire world media. So, Arab media (like Al-Jazeera), Indian media, British media, the UN human rights panel, etc. None of them can be trusted. I understand you being skeptical of American media, but for you, the “anti China” lobby is basically all foreigners, except a nobody YouTuber with 55k subscribers. Obviously, for you, China is holy and sacred – it can do no wrong.

    And a young Muslim girl in Xinjiang? So what? You think this somehow negates all of the eyewitness testimony, reports from Uighur families, leaked documents from the Chinese government, independent on-site reporting, video footage, etc. for the existence of the camps, the forced labor, the forced sterilizations, etc.?

    Do you think in mainland China you are allowed to go anywhere you want as a tourist? It’s the most militarized place on the planet! Independent investigators and journalists are banned from this part of China (probably all of China). Do you think a tourist will risk getting in trouble with the Chinese government to ask questions about the camps? And you actually think this young Muslim teenage girl is qualified to report on sensitive political issues in China or that she even wants to bother getting invovled?

    What happens to real journalists who investigate this issue?

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-britain-bbc-idUSKBN2BN0U2

    BEIJING (Reuters) -The British Broadcasting Corp said on Wednesday one of its journalists in China had relocated to Taiwan, a move that comes amid criticism from Beijing of its reports on alleged human rights abuses against Uighur Muslims in the Xinjiang region.

    The journalist, John Sudworth, told BBC radio he moved with his family because it had become increasingly difficult to remain in the country. He had been under surveillance, faced threats of legal action, obstruction and intimidation, he said.

    “We left in a hurry, followed by plainclothes police all the way to the airport through the check-in. The true grim reality for reporters here being made clear all the way to the very end,” he told the BBC show that was aired on Wednesday.

    The CCP is a fascist regime. It’s time for the Chinese government to go into the dustbin of history.

  437. Resartus says:
    @Quartermaster

    The Chinese pilot that was killed by his own clownish stupidity was not form the ROC, but was a Red Chinese pilot.

    Reportedly, one of the top pilots in the PRAAF also…..

  438. @anon

    If you believe everything mainstream media says then you are clueless and made a wrong turn to end up on the internet in this spot. Unless this is your “assignment”. Pick one. Learn critical thinking or find another assignment instead of wasting time going back and forth. ou and your handlers then are too dumb to know it is CPC not CCP. Do you play loose with all facts? There are many many many outlets that have debunked all the folly regarding Xinjiang. I gave you but one and you refuse to go and check ajd refute the actual issues. You cant because you are either a silly sheep or on assignment hiding behind and “anon”.
    I bet you are still believing the garbage about centrifuges in Iraq too…. Or the babies killed in incubaotrs in Kuwait or the Viagara rape gangs in Libya. All proven lies – just like Xinjiang. Or is it just your hatred for China that goads you on??

    And for the record Al Jazeera is a Qatar based media. Qatar hosts the largest US military installation in the region. You fan markedly see how their coverage and tune changed over the years. You probably have no clue because you might not have even known they existed 5 years ago.

    Strange I never see you on he threads which talk about the Uighur militants committing acts of jihad all through the Muslim world but you choose to interject on one regarding nuclear subs in the South China Sea. How did you get lost…?

    And for the record clown no government is holy to me – and that includes China. Put on your big boy pants and learn out real life. Not many things are worse than those that lie and cause death and destruction – so to those are indeed the worst governments.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
    , @anon
    , @Anon
  439. @Showmethereal

    Well said, but arguing facts and truth with race-hating Sinophobes is like trying to reason with a rock.

  440. @Resartus

    You know that you are dealing with an aged, racist, Sinophobe, sub-fascist, Yankee Doodle cretin when you see the expression ‘Red Chinese’. Still aggrieved on how they kicked your backsides in Korea, are you?

    • Replies: @Resartus
  441. @anon

    Were your parents racist liars, too? I mean is it hereditary, or did you learn it yourself. Either way you are an Evil imbecile.

  442. anon[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @Showmethereal

    If you believe everything mainstream media says then you are clueless and made a wrong turn to end up on the internet in this spot. Unless this is your “assignment”. Pick one. Learn critical thinking or find another assignment instead of wasting time going back and forth. .

    There is no official position on this website about the Uighurs. Being on this website doesn’t mean you have to deny the Uighur genocide or accept non-mainstream views perforce, unless you now seem to think that you and your friends represent this website. You and your friends regularly dismiss non-mainstream views regarding issues pertaining to Israel, Zionist Jews, woke culture, etc,. You gladly accept mainstream scholarship about White racism, anti-Asian racism, etc. You only object to mainstream views when they are critical of China and don’t fit your agenda. Otherwise you gladly accept them. Sounds like you are the one who needs to learn critical thinking and stop uncritically accepting CCP propaganda. Can I apply your same standard and say the same thing to you then? Why do you believe what the mainstream media says about the Holocaust, anti-Semitism, White racism, etc,etc? You regularly spout mainstream academic views about Whites having stolen the land from the Indians. In that case, non-mainstream views are not to be taken seriously. If anything, you’ve made the wrong turn and ended up here.

    You are the one who posts on this website constantly – you’ve literally posted almost 300,000 words on this website regularly towing the party line of the CCP. So who’s really on “assignment”? I’m flattered that you think I’m some CIA agent here to do intelligence work. But you’re not so special as to warrant that kind of attention. Try to overcome your grandiose delusions kid. You’re just commenting on a political blog, not shaping public opinion about China.

    ou and your handlers then are too dumb to know it is CPC not CCP

    This is just a matter of convention. CCP is used regularly in journalism. Chinese Communist Party or Communist Party of China. You obviously need a lesson in how modifiers work in English.

    There are many many many outlets that have debunked all the folly regarding Xinjiang. I gave you but one and you refuse to go and check ajd refute the actual issues.

    You gave me a link to YouTube video from a teenage Muslim girl doing a travelogue about China. You also gave me a link to YouTuber David Cartalucci’s 55k-subscriber YouTube channel. I would hardly call this the most rock-solid evidence. Where are the “many many outlets” that have “debunked the folly” regarding Xinjiang?

    Internal documents from the Chinese government have been leaked concerning the matter of Xinjiang.
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/11/16/world/asia/china-xinjiang-documents.html

    I’ll ignore the rest of your comment, which is totally lacking in substance.

    • Troll: d dan
  443. Resartus says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Still aggrieved on how they kicked your backsides in Korea, are you?

    Considering the differing body count….
    That would be like hating ants, because you stepped on a nest and
    got swarmed…..

    As an analyst during the ’90s…
    Recall taking about how countries without a military capable of taking another route of attack…
    What did we get…. 9/11
    After the embassy bombings, something like that shouldn’t be a surpize, but low and behold….

  444. “You gladly accept mainstream scholarship about White racism, anti-Asian racism, etc. You only object to mainstream views when they are critical of China and don’t fit your agenda”

    No you idiot… I don’t accept anything. I prove anything I read. Or I shut up about it. You should learn to practice that.

    You are the one who posts on this website constantly – you’ve literally posted almost 300,000 words on this website regularly towing the party line of the CCP. So who’s really on “assignment”?

    So where is your comments history?? Oh that’s right – you don’t have any because you are hiding. I stand on the things I write and I don’t work for the CPC (spell it correctly clown) nor am I citizen of the PRC. I post to correct lies and folly that I read on here. Why? There may be some neutral who doesn’t know and maybe the things I write they will look into it. That can avoid things like war… Are you one of the idiots who believed the US gov and then signed up for the military to go fight in Iraq and Afghanistan??? Don’t take it out on me then. But again – we have no clue – because you are hiding. Make yourself a profile since you have so much to say. Guess what though…. I wouldn’t even check your comments because I wouldn’t care less. Why? I deal with facts and real life so if you are into propaganda – then that’s on you.

    Still quoting the NY Times as “proof”… There is no help for you then. And I didn’t call you a CIA agent idiot. It is well known that there are low grade tools used…. Sockpuppets they are called. That doesn’t make you an agent. Often idiots don’t even know who they are working for – even in more mainstream sources. So either you are one – or a complete fool who is wasting their time on here.

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @anon
  445. Anon[857] • Disclaimer says:
    @Showmethereal

    You are one who replied to Anon 163’s single line post when he was replying to the poster @Friendly Neighborhood Terrorist. If you don’t like Xinjiang being brought up, then why did you reply? Don’t complain about people going off topic when you regularly do so yourself.

  446. 迪路 says:
    @mike99588

    We all know that foreign media are owned by Jews, such as CNN and BBC, and generally these media are not reliable, and we usually compare the information inside and outside the walls to determine the authenticity of the news.
    So do you agree that Antifa, BLM creator and LGBTQ advocate, George Soros and the white left behind him are our common enemy? At least I don’t want to see black people, HIV, drugs, and Greta Thunberg all over the place.
    Black… Emmm, I’m not being racist. I mean, they may have lower iQs on average, but they’re more physically fit than other people, and they’re better suited to manual labor, sporting events.

  447. d dan says:
    @showmethereal

    “because you are hiding.”

    Those were roaches from CIA and their sponsored NED, NGOs, …

    Don’t need to write so many words when replying to shits.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  448. 迪路 says:
    @anon

    As a Chinese I can tell you the numbers are not that much, 50/50 at best, there are a lot of Jewish funded media like Soros smears CCP. It’s a Jewish tradition to bet both sides. Whether they discredit success or invest in it, they stand to gain.
    As for many other parts of the world with high crime rates, that’s true, at least China doesn’t have demonstrations disrupting other people’s lives, at least we don’t have BLM, Antifa and drugs. I often compare domestic and foreign media to check if it is true.

  449. anon[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @showmethereal

    I stand on the things I write and I don’t work for the CPC (spell it correctly clown) nor am I citizen of the PRC.

    Getting autistic about acronyms is not helping your case. Again, CCP is a standard convention. I don’t understand why you are getting so upset about this. Honestly, I’m starting to worry about your sanity too, the way you are getting so upset. Chill out, dude.

    So where is your comments history?? Oh that’s right – you don’t have any because you are hiding.

    You’re still using a pseudonym. You haven’t revealed your true identity. How are you not hiding? Nah, I don’t have a comments history because I don’t spend so much time here like you. You are not one to reprimand people for “wasting time.”

    There may be some neutral who doesn’t know and maybe the things I write they will look into it. That can avoid things like war… Are you one of the idiots who believed the US gov and then signed up for the military to go fight in Iraq and Afghanistan???

    Wow, you are the self-appointed savior of mankind, coming to save the world from war on UR. Thanks. But does it help to sway the so-called “neutrals” when you insult American military veterans this way? Those are people who dislike the idea of war with China and would probably be against it, but now you are insulting them.

    In any case, maybe war is necessary. Wasn’t WWII necessary to stop the genocide of 6 million Jews? The CCP is a fascist regime that is committing genocide on a huge scale. We can’t let history repeat itself. Did you ever stop and think that war in this situation might be the only way to save the Uighur people, whose welfare you seem to disregard completely? Most likely, it won’t come to war, so you don’t have to indulge in grandiose delusions of saving the world. It will most likely be a cold war fought via economics and propaganda.

    Still quoting the NY Times as “proof”… There is no help for you then.

    You said you’re here to correct “follies,” and you haven’t been doing a good job of it. You haven’t refuted the fact of the leaked documents. You haven’t refuted the eyewitness testimony of Uighur families. You just categorically dismiss any claims made by the mainstream media (and yet you have been willing to quote the MSM in other posts to make other points). Critical thinking doesn’t mean you categorically reject or accept everything the MSM says. The mainstream media has addressed lies about the Iraq war (https://theintercept.com/2018/02/06/lie-after-lie-what-colin-powell-knew-about-iraq-fifteen-years-ago-and-what-he-told-the-un/). You still haven’t done so with regard to Xinjiang. And you are the one who decided to respond to Comment #438, so don’t complain about others raising the issue of Xinjiang.

    The truth is that the evil of the Communist Party of China is being becoming more clear to people everyday. It is an Evil Empire that represents the dark forces of racial supremacy, fascism, and hatred. Freedom, justice, and truth will prevail. The CCP will be overthrown. Chairman Xi will be deposed. The Chinese people will be liberated.

    • Troll: Showmethereal
    • Replies: @迪路
    , @Showmethereal
  450. denk says:
    @Quartermaster

    Listen up u mother fucking asshole…

    That shows the meme of ‘reckless Chinese pilot’ is BS.

    And…
    You not only eavesdrop on your ‘allies’ emails , even snoop around their air space with impunity.

    What are ‘friends’ for eh ?

    • Agree: Showmethereal
    • Replies: @littlereddot
  451. denk says:
    @anon

    Singapore only exists because the Chinese are too racist to co-exist with the ethnic Malay people, who rioted in the 60s against the Chinese

    The next thing we know you’r gonna tell us its the Chinese fault that they got massacred in that 1965 genocide ?

    Australia, UK, US all complicit in Indonesian 1965 massacres, international judges say

    https://www.tribunal1965.org/en/australia-uk-us-all-complicit-in-indonesian-1965-massacres-international-judges-say/

    • Agree: d dan
  452. denk says:
    @Resartus

    I thought you blame 911 all on the Jews ?

    So its the Chinese now ?

    ——————
    PS
    Wonder how FUS produce all those
    lying pos like pompass ?

    GIGO

    What do you expect when 98% of them are lying pos like this ?

    • Replies: @Resartus
  453. @anon

    “This is a fact” like Saddam’s WMDs, which were propagated by exactly the same people? “This is a fact” like Gaddafi’s Viagra Rape Genocidal Gangs, which even a British parliament investigation admitted, years later, did not exist? “This is a fact” like Assad’s Sarin Barrel Bombs?

    And even if it were a fact, what has it to do with the easily verifiable ownership of WION and its easily verifiable record of spreading Modiganda?

    Answer: nothing.

    • Thanks: Showmethereal
  454. @Resartus

    Oh, right, body counts decide wars.

    And the proof is that the Nazis won against the USSR, the Iraqis against Iran, and the Amerikastani Empire in Vietnam and Afghanistan.

    • LOL: Deep Thought
    • Replies: @Resartus
  455. @Hbd investor

    So you’re agreeing with me that this site is a refuge of white racist writers who can’t get published anywhere else?

    • Replies: @迪路
  456. @Quartermaster

    Murrika IS the trouble-maker in the South China Sea:

    Having taken sides against China, the United States cannot now hope to mediate between the parties.

    http://chasfreeman.net/diplomacy-on-the-rocks-china-and-other-claimants-in-the-south-china-sea/

    I is all about Divide and Rule, which the Western imperialists are best at

  457. @Resartus

    @[email protected]

    The Chinese pilot that was killed by his own clownish stupidity was not form the ROC, but was a Red Chinese pilot.

    Reportedly, one of the top pilots in the PRAAF also…..

    As always, it is the clownishly stupid pilots who got shot down. Here is another top pilot who chose to run into enemy fire:

    John McCain POW: Shot down over Vietnam, beaten …

    https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2018/04/02/john-mccain-pow-vietnam-war-navy-pilot/538485001/

    MyCane should have stayed on his carrier!!! 😀

  458. @denk

    In a typical unit,
    Officers with seniority and competence become CO Commanding Officer
    Officers with organisational skills become S1 Manpower Officer
    Officers with smarts became S2 Intelligence Officer
    Officers with competence but no seniority become S3 Operations Officer
    Officers with seniority but no real skills, cannot be promoted and are killing their time before retirement become S4 Quartermaster.

    Know who you are dealing with. Especially one who is so proud of what he has “attained”, that he uses it as his nickname.

    • Replies: @denk
  459. 迪路 says:
    @anon

    However your words reveal that you have never been to China and do not know China. At least we Chinese can see clearly whether CCP is evil or not. CCP is much better than the deep state of rockefellers which looks like a democracy regime.
    If you continue to attack CCP , there will be no one to speak for you when LGBTQ, BLM, Antifa, political correctness come to you later.
    I think it is very important to correct the madness of the elite of the deep state, otherwise mankind could be extinct in a few hundred years. Please have some perspective instead of being ignorant.

    • Replies: @mike99588
  460. @anon

    China is committing genocide against the Uighurs.

    Whiteman’s propaganda! In terrorists atrocities in Urumqi, Kunming, etc, far more non-Uighurs were murdered by the Weedger terrorists than Uighurs were killed.

    Here come the real, well documented, facts on genocides:

    Thus, naturally, these are the same crimes Western media accuse China of committing. There are few better examples of psychological projection (and psychopathy) than committing such abuses yourself, and then falsely accusing someone else of committing them. The more atrocities China can be accused of committing – the less guilty they feel about having actually committed theirs.

    Moreover, it takes away attention from your own real crimes and shifts the focus on China’s imaginary ones. The world can then spend more time discussing China’s unproven, imaginary genocide in Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, and focus less on Canada’s real, proven genocide at home.

    https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-06-26/China-is-paying-hypocritical-Western-nations-back-in-their-own-coin-11pbkcmfLyw/index.html

    More:

    https://hmh.org/library/research/genocide-of-indigenous-peoples-guide/

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/mar/04/the-killing-times-the-massacres-of-aboriginal-people-australia-must-confront

    And google for more cases in Korea, Vietnam, I-rag, Afghanistan,…

    • Thanks: GomezAdddams
    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  461. 迪路 says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    I heard that this site was created by good jewish people with a conscience. Deep states like the Rockefellers have threatened the very existence of mankind. This is the key to the fate of mankind, if the wrong ideas of these people like LGBTQ continue to spread, then the world will fall into recession. I think people on this site should at least understand who their enemies are, and their weapons should be ideas and solidarity.

  462. @迪路

    Literally none of that makes sense.

    The whole LGTXYZ crap is an irrelevant distraction in most of the world. And if this site is so concerned about solidarity, why are we brown and black people routinely painted as little better than apes while brown and black authors are never posted here?

  463. 迪路 says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    I’m not racist.
    I just think the average black IQ is more suitable for manual labor when a large percentage of black people use drugs. Maybe there are some noble blacks who don’t take drugs. I’m in the biology business, and black people are backward in terms of African origin, black people don’t have the option of going through the ice age, and you have to face that fact. I can only respect you if you prove to me that you can do it, that you can contribute to the development of human technology.
    As for LGBTQ, BLM, Antifa, legalization of drugs, and the origins of the hippie movement, I suggest you check out the Jewish Frankfurter sect. But I guess in America it’s not that easy to find out. As long as there is left, there will be right, and left-right confrontation will make the bottom people see the world as it really is. If you think this is all a conspiracy theory, that’s all I can say about your intelligence.
    In fact, conspiracy theory itself is a very interesting word, and the people who invented it and defined it, I think, were the Morgan Foundation, the Rockefeller Foundation. They represent the true owners of America. Trump has to shut up if they want to. Democracy is just a trick.

  464. @迪路

    Literally none of what you said has the slightest relevance in the vast majority of the world that is not America or its vassals. Try again.

    I especially find it interesting how IQ-obsessed totally-not-racists keep talking about how blacks are inferior because of their allegedly low IQ whole simultaneously whining about how Jews allegedly rule the world and are responsible for everything that happens. By that token, then, those totally-not-racists have IQs inferior to Jews and should accept a subservient position to them.

    As for your career as a biologist, as an endodontist myself, I’m less than overwhelmed.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @迪路
    , @迪路
  465. anon[144] • Disclaimer says:
    @迪路

    There is nothing wrong with being racist, it is natural human instinct. East Asians need to be MORE racist, not less, if they want to survive the future. It is better to be racist to others than to be racist to your own race….

  466. @d dan

    Oh I know… I am not hoping to change their biased and corrupted minds… I write mainly for the neutrals who have yet to ake up their mind. There are topics I read about on here that I dont know about. I read the arguments in the comments and then i research on my own to find out who is right or wrong.. And if I cant find anything convincing i just mind my business. I am sure there are other people just like that who read these stories and do the same.

  467. anon[281] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    Totally agreed. This insecurity vis-a-vis the high-IQ of Jews is what led to the Holocaust. The racism of Chinese people is on full display in this thread. Their insecurity vis-a-vis other races poses a serious threat to the world. It has already led them down the path of genocide, resulting in the detention of 1 million Uighurs. These Asian racists and Han supremacists need to be dealt a fatal blow once and for all, just like the Nazis and White Supremacists that were vanquished before them.

    • Troll: Showmethereal
    • Replies: @迪路
  468. 迪路 says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    So you still don’t understand what I’m saying, that jews led by the Rockefeller Foundation are responsible for stigmatizing black people.
    As for the claim that Jews are highly intelligent, let me tell you, technically speaking, khazar Jews give themselves intelligence surveys that make them look good. Let me give you an example, they like the fact that they give themselves MEDALS. I suggest you check out Mammoth Biosciences created by nobel price winner, which has ties to Vertex Therapeutics, which is clearly the Illuminati Jewish LOGO. Vertex focuses on cystic fibrosis. But according to my research,their founder the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation itself was created by the Rockefeller Foundation in the 1950s. The Nobel Prize is their own authority, the most superstitious authority.
    Moderna has a partnership with Vertex, and you can check it out. Moderna was funded by DARPA in 2013(milestone). I don’t know why the Department of Defense funded a technology that wasn’t promising, and they were working on a Zika vaccine before Brazil Zika pandemic. What a coincidence, huh?
    If you get sterilized by Bill Gates, please don’t come to Chinese to save you.Your meekness determines your fate.
    You don’t really think BLM, AntiFA and the like are going to be able to get your rights, it’s just going to make people hate you. Especially white people. Did you know blacks had a Black Panther Party in the last century? Regressive leftist thinking will only bring you down in the end. Also, if you are using drugs, I suggest you stop.Maybe I think you should study socialism.

  469. 迪路 says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    BTW, if you want to prove me wrong, please do your own research on George Soros’ Open Society Foundations, not Clinton, or you could be shot three times in the back and diagnosed as a suicide. It’s up to you whether you choose to be a Jew’s ass or a man of dignity.

  470. @anon

    You obviously spend more time on here than I do.. You are very quick to respond which means you have no life or this is your “job”. Other than that you established yourself as a troll. And since you love to stalk reader comments then you would have seen where I addressed Xinjiang in the past. Also I referred you to the former marine who is one of many who refuted Adrian Zenz lies – which is what the US and minions use to make fake stories about Xinjiang. Your intelligence level is lacking.
    Oh wow – so the lies about Iraq are addressed after all the death and destruction. What good is that????? An unintelligent troll indeed.

    • Agree: d dan
    • Replies: @anon
  471. 迪路 says:
    @anon

    Well, I suggest you run for the Senate, because generally capital loves discrimination and ignorance like you. You can’t even settle down to investigate the origins of LGBTQ, BLM, antifa yourself.

  472. denk says:
    @littlereddot

    just look at their handles….
    BOmbthethreegorges
    Bombercommand
    gen ripper
    quartermaster
    half naked mother fucker…

    tip of an iceberg

    Their comments in a nutshell,
    No fact, no moral, no brain and NO SHAME

    I once naively believed that Americans hiq and basically decent people ,
    Their problem is being kept in the dark and fed BS all day long like mushroom
    [courtesy Pilger]
    Once they learn the truth there’d be revolution.

    Big mistake !
    That cost me three decades of wasted life trying to educate and reform the mugs

    a FAT lot of good it does.
    Looks like they’d rather wallow in that wonderful cesspool, USA.
    ignorance is bliss .

    LIke Yang Jiechi told Bliken in Alaska..

    We’ve thought too high of you,

    • Agree: Mulga Mumblebrain
    • Thanks: Bombercommand
    • Replies: @littlereddot
  473. anon[281] • Disclaimer says:
    @Showmethereal

    You obviously spend more time on here than I do.. You are very quick to respond which means you have no life or this is your “job”.

    Not really. Again, you’ve posted 300,000 words here. I’ve only been actively engaged on this one thread. In any case, it seems that from your point of view, anyone who doesn’t share your idealized, rose-tinted view of China is either a CIA agent, troll, or someone with “no life.” But when you post 300,000 words here, it means you are engaged in a noble endeavor, helping to save the world from war. Are you paid to be on here? Are you working for the CCP? You claim that this is not the case, only that you are saving the world and helping to “avoid war.” LOL. Your words.

    Other than that you established yourself as a troll.

    No trolling. Anytime you encounter a post that is critical of China, you hit the “troll” button because you have no counterarguments.

    And since you love to stalk reader comments then you would have seen where I addressed Xinjiang in the past. Also I referred you to the former marine who is one of many who refuted Adrian Zenz lies – which is what the US and minions use to make fake stories about Xinjiang.

    Well, it’s funny you consider it “stalking” to read a person’s comment history. I thought your comment history is what makes you morally superior to “anons.” But when people read them, it’s “stalking.” Funny.

    First of all, as for the Cartalucci video, he was responding the whole time to an article by Adrian Zenz. Adrian Zenz is not the primary source materials for allegations about Xinjiang. That’s just an assumption Cartalucci makes in the video. Regarding the article referenced in the video, Adrian Zenz does reference the document dump (i.e. leaked documents) reported by the NY Times. What was presented in that article by Zenz was just an informational pamphlet and never intended to be an academic document. You disregard the document dump simply b/c you dismiss a priori the New York times. Basically, the only valid sources for you are Chinese government propaganda. What’s wrong with the NY times? Are you one of those anti-Semite who thinks the NY Times is “Jew-owned” and therefore not to be given credence?

    You also allege that the US government is not credible because they lied in the past about Iraq. Fine. But what if I used your method of reasoning? Do you realize that the Chinese government has scrubbed any mention of Tiananmen Square from their Internet? They’ve literally erased Hu Yaobang from their history. The CCP is a government that makes people disappear, both figuratively and literally. They’ve utterly decimated the culture of Tibet and lie regularly about the Dalai Lama. They’ve been persecuting Falun Gong for the past 20 years. They have a track record of stamping out ethnic groups, destroying any political opposition, and scrubbing people from the historical record as if they never existed. So if you are going to judge a government based on its past behavior, which you do with the US government, then the CCP has no credibility in any of its claims, particularly in denying the Uighur genocide. Your double standards are amazing.

    At the end of the day, you’re going to believe who you want. And that’s why I realize that this discussion is pointless. However, your childish and immature behavior (e.g. screaming and yelling “clown” and “idiot” every other sentence) reflects upon you poorly, considering that you are the intellectual thought leader for the China posters here. The posters @d dan, @denk, @Deep Thought, etc. (i.e. your minions) all look to you as an example, and you’ve let them down by acting out in childish tantrums.

    • Troll: d dan, Mulga Mumblebrain
    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  474. Resartus says:
    @denk

    I thought you blame 911 all on the Jews ?

    Since I’ve never commented on that issue….

    No doubt, you are committing fraud if you get paid to think…..

    • Replies: @denk
  475. Resartus says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    Oh, right, body counts decide wars

    You didn’t just jump the shark on making up things about what I posted….
    You jumped the entire lake….

    You aren’t just on the wrong page as I am…
    You are in a whole different book….

  476. @迪路

    I’m not saying Jews are especially intelligent. I’m saying IQ obsessed people are, how do I put it, not exactly in touch with the implications of their own obsession.

  477. @迪路

    I care nothing for or against Jews. I take them as I take any other group of people, some good, some bad, most in the middle.

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @迪路
  478. @Resartus

    Just read over what you just wrote. Slowly.

    • Replies: @Resartus
  479. @xyzxy

    Yes, here’s an idea as to what happened.
    The Spy Sub was underneath a Chin Electronic Spy Surface Vessel, collecting and absorbing whatever data could be absorbed.
    Then, due to Indo-Paki Affirmative Action and General Unqualified Command Placement, the sub hit a thermal upswell, ignorantly, and jammed its Conning Tower into the hull and screws of the Chin vessel.
    A 300 pound BLAK female commander would have been just as “woke”.

    This has happened before, and I have witnessed and heard first person testimony to the veracity of it.
    The instance that I am aware of happened a long time ago, and it was a USSR electronic spy trawler.
    Then, nowhere near the instrumentation/data bases in place today that would have seen or known of characteristic thermals in specific locations.

    U. S. Navy—yet another American institution used as a Talmudic bedpan.

  480. d dan says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    “I care nothing for or against Jews. I take them as I take any other group of people, some good, some bad, most in the middle.”

    Agree. The irony about White racists is that they complain about being “discriminated” and “demonized” as a GROUP by the Jews-controlled MSM, and then they turn around and start demonize the Jews (and Blacks, and Chinese, and Muslims, and others…) as a group.

    Chinese don’t and shouldn’t care about the White-Jew fight. If anything, I actually have more sympathy toward Jews, because they were discriminated by Whites historically, and by Deep Thought’s “reciprocity principle”, they are entitled to discriminate against Whites, now that they have the power to do so – LOL.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  481. @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    Because…
    BLAX are not H. Sapiens sapiens…
    Those creatures…Sticks & Mud Age losers closer related to Chimpanzees.
    and…
    Browns are mongrel mud creatures; lesser hominids at best.
    BOTH demographics are net losses wherever they are smeared.
    That’s why.
    Also, most, by far, scribblings by BLAX and Browns are absolute CRAP, if not parroted Communist claptrap.
    That’s why.
    Example: The still free and breathing Obongo’s credited spew was written by the still free and breathing Communist terrorist scum Bill Ayers…who would be serving Life, or on Death Row, in a Federal prison if his male spawner wasn’t a connected multi-millionaire.

    Some more…whine ?

  482. mike99588 says:
    @littlereddot

    It’s not a matter of brag, but preference and future survival after Feminazi USSA trashed the female supply (t)here.

    Unlike some of the posters here, I’m fine with merit based miscegenation.

  483. mike99588 says:
    @迪路

    If you continue to attack CCP , there will be no one to speak for you when LGBTQ, BLM, Antifa, political correctness come to you later.

    Remember Kyle, he was too young and only bagged three criminals…

    • Replies: @迪路
  484. Resartus says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    Just read over what you just wrote. Slowly.

    And yet you still fail to make a rebuttal….

  485. DrCiber says:
    @Anon

    The Americans, or at least that cabal that actually calls the shots and allows figurehead politicians to occupy the White House, didn’t get the message, hasn’t taken the hint, continues with it’s head shoved up its a\$\$…whatever you want to call it. It actively wants a fight over something, anything it can use to provoke a confrontation while making it look, according to their own low standards, like the Russians or the Chinese started it. These are specimens that make that make the fictional Gen. Jack T. Ripper look like Mahatma Ghandi.

  486. DrCiber says:
    @utu

    Hitler thought that a quick kick in the teeth would cause the entire Soviet Union to collapse in matter of weeks. He was in for a terminally unpleasant surprise and so are you.

  487. @anon

    What i find most funny is you came on a story about how the US government covers things up and uses the media to do so – to point fi gers at me for giving other examples of the same thing. Well you are not a professional troll or a sockpuppet then you are weird or deranged.

    But you qre right to bring up Tiananmen and I can point to that as a failure of the Chinese government that you tried to claim I think does no wrong. For one they are only recently getting good at disseminating information to foreign audiences. They have done pretty ell with Xinjiang showing the vidoes caputring he dozens of terrorist attacks committed by Uighur militants. But of course in countries dominated by the US it gets little traction… But in Muslim countries who have to contend with Uighur jihadists it is no surprise – which is why none of hem believe Adrien Zenz lies and the US NED campaign. They either arrest and eport them or in cases like Syria fight them or Vietnam shoot them at the border. And they dont do it because of China… They do it for heir own security. The Chinese government has also done a good job exposing the NED tricks in Hong Kong and the agents who were funding and training the rioters. But again they are slow. When it comes to Tiananmen you are correct they erase it… But that is because you dont know Confucian culture why you think it is nefarious. Confucian societies value order more than anything else. But you are mistaken if you think Chinese dont know about it. Most of china knows ow to use a vpn to access he outside internet. Guess what happens… When they read all the lies bout China today they realize they rent missing much and realize there will be lies on the outside regarding China’s history. Which is why I think China is wrong not to address Tiananmen again. I say again because it WAS covered when it happened. what hey should do is expose all the vidoes of the rioters who burned down columns of government vehicles and murdered unarmed soldiers and police. They should publish the pictures and videos of known CIA workers who were in the crowds and using voice of america to send their messages. They should expose the Operation Yellowbird which whisked away the so called student leaders into Hong Kong and then the US just before the bloodshed started so they could escape harm unlike the pawns they left behind… I could go on and on but again this is ot the thread for it… But yeah China’s gov is wrong for not confronting that head on.

    And “thought leader”? LOL… I take that as compliment. I an assure I know nothing about the posters you named and have never checked their comment history. You must feel lonely.

    Tell you what.. Create a screen name and you can debate… There are 5 or 6 of you anons on here… No way to tell who is who… Get brave.

    • Agree: Mulga Mumblebrain
    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  488. 迪路 says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    I said you might have some comprehension problems.
    It’s not just Jews, it’s just that most of those elites are Jews. The people I’m talking about, especially the Rockefellers. I’m talking about a group of elites who are trying to spread LGBTQ, environmental, animal protection ideas around the world. If you’re willing to let that influence your son to become a drug-addicted transgender gay, or your daughter to be raped by a transgender gay, then I wish you all the best.
    You’re stupid, ungrateful, stubborn as rotten stones, but I was kind enough to tell you. Please be conservative. Please live a good life and strive hard to find your vision for the future of mankind, otherwise you and the pigs in the pigsty are no different.

  489. 迪路 says:
    @mike99588

    In fact, for business managers, what they like most is for employees to fight each other, so that their rights will not be threatened.
    Governing is the same. When you introduce leftist ideas, then the left will fight the right, and the more fierce the fight becomes, then no one can threaten the people at the top of the country.
    I actually like The work of Henry Kissinger, whose central idea is to maintain the balance of power.
    I think the Rockefellers have found a great strategist. Yes, Brzezinski, Henry Kissinger, Huntington were the Rockefellers’ strategists, who led the new world order. I highly recommend buying their books, as well as David Rockefeller’s personal memoirs.
    Of course, you have to read the book in the opposite direction.

    • Replies: @mike99588
  490. denk says:
    @Resartus

    I’ve seen lots of lying pos in my time, BUt your insinuation of Chinese hand behind 911 really takes the cake.

    Get outta my sight asshole

    PS
    i wont be wasting my time for no fact, no moral, no brain, no shame gringo mug any more.

    As for that ‘anon’,
    Everything he says has been shot down gawd know how many times before, yet he come back and recite the same craps from Indian media, NYT, GUARDIAN,,….

    ‘anon’ has become pathological, he’s now grabbing at straw.

    I shall leave him in peace.

    [hint] He’s someone we’r very familiar with, bye now.

  491. @denk

    I once naively believed that Americans hiq and basically decent people ,

    I had the same problem. I too could not reconcile what I believed … that they were good decent moral people, but all their foreign policy was based on domination and screwing up other countries.

    So on the one hand, Hollywood image – decent people who care about others
    On the other hand, US foreign policy and Americans I had contact with in Asia – Arrogant assholes who think they are gods gift to the world and only want to take your resources….down right EVIL

    Big problem that I could not get my head around.

    So about 8 years ago I started making a series of trips to the US. I have been there a total of maybe a year? I have travelled from East to West by plane and by car, been to coastal states, flyover states, met Californians, New Yorkers, Deep south red neck types, woo woo spiritual types in Sedona etc etc. Blacks, Whites, Latinos, Jews, Native Americans etc.

    So I have come to understand that the average Joe is NOT EVIL. He is just ignorant and manipulated. This is a fascinating phenomenon, and my observation is that there are several contributing factors:
    1. Very partisan information. Just look at the pro Vax and anti Vax camps. Each has its supporting news media. Both think that the other side is wrong, and only they are right. This partisanship is all pervading in the USA, it is deep rooted in everyone’s thinking. I think it has at its root individualism taken to an extreme. It is again extremely interesting, but it would make the comment too long. So I leave it for another time.
    2. Lack of info about the outside world/notion of USA No.1. I believe this stems from the fact that the US has been top dog for so long, they consider themselves the only country that is important. All other countries should emulate them if they want to progress. This leads to a dismissal of other countries and therefore lack of interest in them. Again more can be said another day.
    3. Economic pressures of daily life – when one is working two jobs and worrying about paying the bills the average Joe doesn’t have the time to do his proper research. Why this is so, yet another interesting discussion for another day.
    4. Highly militaristic / might = rightThe average Joe doesn’t realise it, but he lives in a highly militaristic country. They are led to believe they are peaceful because they don’t have big parades on independence day the way the Soviets/Russians/N Koreans/Chinese and virtually all other countries do. But in their everyday life it is pervaded, pride in the military. One thing that struck me is that in the US, if one meets a Veteran, there is the obligatory statement “thank you for your service”. There is a certain reverence in the country for their military that you do not find anywhere else.
    With the militaristic culture, there is an inbuilt attitude that might = right. Constant use of terms like “full spectrum dominance”, “shock and awe”, you can see what I mean. It runs deep in the culture. Can anybody be surprised at the way the USA pushes its weight round in the international stage?
    Is this an accident or by design? Again very interesting topic.

    Anyway post is too long. I will give your eyes and my fingers a rest.

    • Agree: Deep Thought
    • Thanks: Showmethereal
    • Replies: @denk
  492. denk says:
    @littlereddot

    There isnt a war that gringo mug do not like, as long as their dear leaders told them its for their honor, for national interest, for democrazy blah blah blah.

    They fall for it every single time,
    https://freebeacon.com/national-security/poll-american-support-for-taiwan-at-historic-high/

    Then there’r those white trash who fantacise of bombing China etc etc back to stone age just for the hell of it.

    FUS is unredeemable,

    OUr best hope is for an implosion that wont bring the rest of us down with it.

    • Replies: @littlereddot
  493. @d dan

    I actually have more sympathy toward Jews, because they were discriminated by Whites historically,

    The Jews– even if you assume that they really are that evil– could never have caused such damage to the world if they did not have the collaboration of the non-Jewish whites because there are simply not enough of them!

    Like the Chinese and other non-whites, the Jews are used as scapegoats by different groups of non-Jewish whites.

    and by Deep Thought’s “reciprocity principle”, they are entitled to discriminate against Whites, now that they have the power to do so

    That applies to practically all non-whites– except the japs.

    • Agree: denk, Showmethereal
  494. @denk

    They fall for it every single time,

    This is certainly true. But why do they fall for it every time? That is what fascinates me.

    If you have been swindled by a salesman once, you would be wary of him. But it seems the Americans having been swindled by the salesman on monday wearing a blue shirt, is ready to trust that same salesman again on tuesday when he wears a red shirt.

    You and I would be wary. But the American is taken in. Why?

    Is it because they see the world in a tribalistic us versus them way? Rather than we are all in it together way?

    Why do they have this tribalistic outlook? Is it because each believes that he has a right to believe whatever he does because it is his God Given Right?….If he has a right to believe what you want, then there is no obligation on his part to verify what is the actual truth. There is no HUMBLE/HONEST seeking of what is true. This is what I mean as individualism taken to the extreme.

    I stake my claim on what reality is, and everybody else should conform to my view of the world…..this is essentially the deep mindset of the American.

    How did it come to this? Did their Founding Fathers envisage this? Did it start with the lofty but naive statement “I hold that all men are created equal”?
    Combine this with a “right of free speech”.
    And the total emphasis on Rights, but almost nothing on the flipside of the coin i.e. Responsibility?

    Americans are truly fascinating, I can spend the rest of my life admiring their quirks.

    • Replies: @denk
  495. 迪路 says:
    @Deep Thought

    It does. I think ordinary Jews are no different from us and must not be discriminated against in any way. In fact Marx and Lenin were both Jews, but they criticized the Freemasons.
    I just hate fools and dummies who can’t see the world as it really is. That’s the trap of the middle class: people who think they have a reasonable income, but they’re just numbers for those at the top.
    It’s just that those at the top of the pyramid get mad, thinking they’re the Kings of the world when they have unlimited wealth. Their thinking is wrong. Despite their power and control of so much media, I believe there is some justice in this world.
    I think the best weapon is the new thought, when we find that the thinking of Rousseau, Voltaire, Montesquieu, Marx, Lenin and other figures in the past can no longer provide reference for the new era, new thinkers need to set up ideas based on the whole human race to change those who have gone mad at the top class.

  496. @Deep Thought

    Like the Chinese and other non-whites, the Jews are used as scapegoats by different groups of non-Jewish whites.

    This is where I am leaning presently. Though I will reconsider if there is better evidence otherwise.

    My guess is that there is no “secret Jewish plan” to takeover the world.

    I think powerful individuals or groups of Jews may skew the the system to enrich themselves, that has to be assumed. It is by their own intelligence and cunning that they are able to corrupt and gain power and wealth for themselves and their immediate associates.

    But to say that Jews from all over the world meet in a secret cave some place and are hatching a masterplan to enslave all of mankind is going a bit too far for me.

    Funny thought tho…what if 10 years from now the anti Jewish sentiment in the West gets to fever pitch, just like 1930s Germany. The Jews will seek sanctuary someplace. Will China accept them?

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Deep Thought
    , @迪路
  497. @Deep Thought

    But notice this fact: there has never been a place in the world where the natives did not grow to resent the Jews over time. Wherever they went, people hated them. They have a behavioral pattern that’s simply incompatible with anyone who isn’t them. And that’s an observation made by Zionists of all people.

    Our best bet is to show respect and keep out distance. And remind them from time to time we are the only ones who don’t have a genocidal hatred for them and it’s better to keep things this way.

    Now a White will come in and tell us how the Jews were behind the opium wars in 3… 2…

    • Agree: Deep Thought
    • Replies: @anon
    , @Mulga Mumblebrain
  498. anon[320] • Disclaimer says:
    @littlereddot

    One would hope China would show more concern for Chinese-Americans than a bunch of Jews….you still can’t get it through your thick head. Jews are not in danger, Chinese/Asian-Americans are.

    • Replies: @littlereddot
  499. anon[320] • Disclaimer says:
    @The_MasterWang

    Its not that hard to understand….Anglo whites and Jews are the same damn thing. They’ve been tied to the hip for centuries. The history of the British Empire and the US shows this. Unless you wanna claim a bunch of Irish/German-Americans run the Federal Reserve. And based on the attitude of the other Chinese posters on here, looks like our race is dead before the fighthing even begins. Cowardly merchants with an unnatural kindness to racial outsiders will never win against groups who want to dominate and destroy.

  500. @littlereddot

    But to say that Jews from all over the world meet in a secret cave some place and are hatching a masterplan to enslave all of mankind is going a bit too far for me.

    I think there IS a group of people who want to dominate the entire world but it is not the Jews. They are the white supremacists– a sub-group of non-Jewish whites in the West. I also want to distinguish between white supremacists and white nationalists. If what the latter want is simply the preservation of white ethnic identities and cultures, but NOT the domination and oppression of non-whites peoples, I understand, and even sympathise, with this their desires.

    The white supremacists are also subdivided in two main groups:

    The open and honest ones like Trump, Ban-non, Bolt-on, etc, and the

    Dishonest and crooked ones like Squeaker Polylunazi and other human-rightists, who cloak their true supremacist nature under fake moral coats or plain lies. This group is far more dangerous than the other group.

    There is, of course, a group of rational and reasonable whites in the West too. I don’t how big this group really is but they don’t appear to be very influential at present.

    It is not our job to get between the struggle between the whites and the Jews. The way the Jewish controlled MSM in the West behave toward China, and the Chinese, tell me that we should be bystanders.

  501. 迪路 says:
    @littlereddot

    Generally speaking, the races that enter China are assimilated into China. History has proved this.
    As for the Jews…In fact, genetic evidence suggests that the Semitic Jews of the past are quite different from the jews of today. Today’s Jews are more of a Jewish Turkic diaspora who immigrated to Europe and mixed with whites. These half-breeds are just keeping their traditional faith Judaism, or illuminati. It could even be said that Pakistanis are closer in blood to the ancient Jews.
    Simply put, anyone with a trace of Jewish ancestry can call himself a Jew.
    You can look up the Rockefeller family, Bill Gates and the Queen of England, they are distant relatives.

  502. @Deep Thought

    There is no one grand conspiracy. There are innumerable small conspiracies. Everyone tries to dominate as much as he can. In that regards the Jews are actually the biggest group. Their conspiracies are grander and more successful than that of others’. They can mobilize more conspirators and resources due to better organization. Notice how Whites eventually must resort to open violence when they deal with Jews.

  503. skrik says:
    @迪路

    These half-breeds are just keeping their traditional faith Judaism, or illuminati

    1stly, I would contest “illuminati:”

    plural noun people claiming to possess special enlightenment or knowledge

    IMHO, nothing at all ‘special’ about any of ’em.

    2ndly, I question “traditional faith Judaism;” by your “Turkic diaspora who immigrated to Europe” I assume you mean that Ashkenazis are descended from Khazarian ‘runaways,’ escaping a new conqueror of their [putative = not known to have been stolen] ‘homelands’ [= the steppes north of the Caucasus], who ‘adopted’ Judaism as part of their ‘dishonest/deceptive’ escape plan.

    [Note: Our host rejects this thesis.]

    anyone with a trace of Jewish ancestry can call himself a Jew

    Actually, it’s not “Jewish ancestry” [IMHO undefined] but adherence to Judaism, 2nd but, then there are the ‘irreligious’ or even outright ‘atheist’ Zionists to contend with. Soo, FIFY:

    anyone can call him/her/itself [choose from LGBTIQA+ etc.] a Jew [if crazy enough]

    Now, does this man look at all ‘Semitic?’

    • Replies: @迪路
  504. @迪路

    Good point about history. Joseph and Moses both were passed off as Egyptians. Abraham was from Mesopotamia. Moses is alternatively noted to have married a Midianite and an Ethiopian… Midianties lived in what we call Saudi Arabia. That is why when you check when Israel was reestablished that when the Yemenite Jews began migrating even the Ashkenazi rabbis admitted that the practices of the Yemenite Jews were closest to biblical practices.

  505. mike99588 says:
    @迪路

    Peter Drucker would disagree with you about maximally productive workers. Your ideas sound heavily CCP leaning and backwards.

    • Troll: Mulga Mumblebrain
    • Replies: @迪路
  506. anon[187] • Disclaimer says:

    Jews are totally a friend of Chinese people! The strong bond of Sino-Judeo values underlies the dynamic, productive, and mutuallly-beneficial cooperation between the Jewish and Chinese communities.

    Take Eduardo Saverin, co-founder of Facebook and Meta, for instance. He LOVES Chinese people. And I mean really LOVES them.

    In The Social Network, Saverin is seen struggling to control a possessive Asian girlfriend who sets fire to a wastepaper basket on his bed when he tells her their relationship is over. The incident, if true, clearly did little to dent the appeal of Far Eastern women for Saverin.

    His core social network in Singapore is a group of American and young Singaporean male friends who join him at his table at Filter, drink mostly on his account and control access to him.

    One of his close friends, a Singaporean, said: ‘Eduardo is totally into Asian girls. He told me while we were drinking together that he likes them because they are smaller built and that means he can just pick them up.’

    When a female friend asked innocently how girls managed to secure an introduction, she was told by one of his inner circle: ‘Don’t even bother. He has so many girlfriends. He has way too many.’

    On nights when he is not clubbing, Saverin has been seen at exclusive bars in Singapore, such as the swanky 71st-floor New Asia Bar in the Swissotel. There he buys £25 cocktails for his Asian girlfriends.

    Describing himself as ‘shy’, Saverin scrapped a planned visit to the US this weekend to avoid being followed by the press.

    https://static.straitstimes.com.sg/s3fs-public/styles/article_pictrure_780x520_/public/articles/2015/06/17/1962588_10100316527313538_589433525_n.jpg?itok=Z1Dm_K8I&timestamp=1434603096

    You’ve got it give to these Yids. They’re scoring with the Asian girls. Granted, Saverin is somewhat more goyish and Anglo-presenting, but still, they are slaying it. I won’t deny it: being Jewish is the way to go!

    • Replies: @anon
    , @迪路
  507. anon[187] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    You’ve got it give to these Yids.

    Oy vey! My dyslexia strikes again. It never ceases to haunt me. This is why I’m not a co-founder of Facebook. Damn it Saverin. Where’s my local Chabad chapter? I want to convert today! Is there Kabbalah magic that can help me get my word order straight? WTF!

  508. 迪路 says:
    @anon

    Business partners, of course. But the same cannot be said of values. Business is business, values are values. In business, the Chinese are definitely working with the Jews the most. Bill Gates is a foreign academician of the Chinese Academy of Engineering. So what we have to do is try to make friends with people who are close to Chinese values.
    But if someone like George Soros is trying to spread wrong ideas, or the Sassoon family who started the Opium War, he is definitely our enemy.
    Ms. Meng’s case, by the way, was the work of HSBC, a bank controlled by the Sassoon family.

  509. 迪路 says:
    @mike99588

    Just as an example, I am studying management myself, and I admit that I do have a lot of shortcomings. Although I am not a member of the Communist Party, I have always felt that materialism is quite important. I actually have a lot of respect for CCP, they are good at business and building, they don’t waste their time on useless things.
    Division and infighting.Isn’t that the reality of your American society?
    I think it’s silly, in the 21st century, to talk about what kind of bathroom transsexuals should go in. Isn’t it based on whether a person is biologically male or female? And politically correct propaganda, such as the fact that Guinevere is played by a black woman in the Legend of Merlin, does not respect the facts in the work. Or black Snow White.
    Is finding a few black actors going to solve the problem of discrimination against black people? It can’t. If black people want to change other people’s minds, they should change themselves. No drugs, no promiscuity
    There’s also the question of whether to get vaccinated. It is better not to interfere with what other people think, if a person wants to get vaccinated, get vaccinated. If a person doesn’t want to get vaccinated, don’t tell someone not to.

    • Replies: @mike99588
  510. denk says:
    @littlereddot

    Fool me once, shame on you.
    Fool me hundreds of time since 1776 ?

    HIQ mugs , is there such an oxymoron ?

    I explained to the mug before,
    Its all about EQ
    A cultural thingee.

    Its a long story,
    where do we start…
    How about the beginning ?

    the Washington Post 1898

    , “We are face-to-face with a strange destiny. The taste of Empire is in the mouth.

    Massachusetts Senator Henry Cabot Lodge 1895

    , “We have a record of conquest, colonization and expansion unequaled by any people in the Nineteenth century. We are not about to be curbed now.”

    they have never looked back since….

    https://web.archive.org/web/20071225210254rn_1/pnews.org/ArT/Xray/EmPire.shtml

    • LOL: littlereddot
  511. anon[187] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s well known that Jews know that Singapore welcomes them with open arms and open legs. But did someone forget to mention that the IDF helped train the Singapore military? Before you get all Gary Coleman on me and be like, “What you talkin bout Willis?” Just hear me out. That’s right, the same guys who brought you the joke “knock knock? who’s there? Nakba!”, the same bad-ass Kabbalah Wizards who invented the George Floyd knee-on-kneck takedown that would give Floyd Mayweather the HEEBie-jeebies, are the same ones who taught their yellow-hued proteges how to put the boot down on dem Malays.

    Chinamen in Singapore decided one day that what they needed is not Trump-style MAGA but KRAV MAGA. Singapore be like: “Yo Schlomo, show me how to bust a cap in the ass of these raghead Malays!” The poor Muslims were all like: “We’re getting stomped on by these Chinamen. Allah help us.” And the IDF-trained Chinamen were like: “That’s right amalayek bitches!”

    https://www.worldscientific.com/doi/abs/10.1142/9789811214691_0003

    In 2019, Israel and Singapore celebrate 50 years of diplomatic relations, friendship and collaboration that go back to the days when Israel and Singapore were two young countries. The bilateral relations are rooted in the shared values and challenges of the two young nations facing similar challenges — geo-strategic as well as economic, such as the lack of natural resources. For many years, it was a widely known, yet unspoken, secret that the beginning of our close relations was the Israeli response to Singapore’s request for assistance and advice in building the Singapore Armed Forces. It was only in the year 2000, when the biography of founding Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew, From Third World to First: The Singapore Story 1965–2000, was published that the 30-year-old secret was made public: Israel helped to develop the Singapore Armed Forces. Late Brigadier-General Yaakov (Jack) Elazari, then a colonel in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF), headed the secret Israeli military mission sent to train and build up the Singapore army, and is remembered in the book Not Born in Singapore: Fifty Personalities who Shaped the Nation…

  512. 迪路 says:
    @skrik

    Look at the back of one dollar. Your country was founded by illuminati.

    • Replies: @skrik
    , @GomezAdddams
  513. @The_MasterWang

    Bernard Lazare, a late 19th century French Jewish intellectual, opponent of Judeophobia and early supporter of Dreyfus made the same point. Everywhere the Jews had dwelt, in societies differing in racial makeup, history, geography, social mores etc, they had almost universally come to be hated by great swathes of the populace. He simply observed that some of the blame MUST be attributed to the Jews themselves. Obviously, by the IHRA ‘definition’, he was an ‘antisemite’.

    • Replies: @GomezAdddams
  514. @Showmethereal

    Operation Yellowbird involved the same actors, ie overseas, particularly Hong Kong, compradores and traitors, Western Government, the Hong Kong colonial regime, Western intelligence and triad thugs, who operated the whole, prototype, ‘Colour Revolution’ that failed, after climaxing, as they always do, in violence. Of course overthrowing a Government in Beijing is harder than doing so in Tbilisi, Belgrade or Kiev, so they failed, but the Western MSM lied through their teeth, and do so to today.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  515. @Deep Thought

    The false, utterly fraudulent, accusation of genocide in Xinjiang is a monstrous crime. It denigrates real victims of atrocities, and, coming from the greatest mass murderers in history, the USA and its stooges, it elevates hypocrisy to stratospheric heights. And it is a de facto declaration of aggressive intent, to destroy the yellow ‘New Nazis’. And of a real genocidal intent against China. And, as for seventy years, since Iran 1953, the USA is the patron, armourer, promoter and financier of Islamist terrorists throughout the world.

    • Replies: @GomezAdddams
  516. mike99588 says:
    @迪路

    Your seeing america when its been poisoned by its enemies internally but externally sponsored, for life times. First the CCCP sponsored Bolsheviks under FDR until that collapsed and we still have their Red Diaper children and grandchildren spreading chaos. The CCP has had easy access to our education and trade system one way for 4 decades.

    You see america massively poisoned, not as it really worked, and should work.

    We could the Wall Streeter sellouts and CCP massively shit themselves as America began to come alive again under Trump. And America now sick or dying again under CCP investment Biden.

    • Replies: @迪路
    , @迪路
  517. 迪路 says:
    @mike99588

    Generally speaking, Chinese people know that American politicians are puppets of American corporations. Actually Biden is nothing. I think he’s just an Alzheimer’s who was put on by a consortium. CCP promised not to export revolution back in the 70’s. There is no need for CCP to do business with an alzheimer’s patient, especially one who likes to talk about Taiwan. The Taiwan issue is a red line issue for us. Anyone involved in the Taiwan issue will be subject to economic sanctions.
    The only people we’re really dealing with are Kissinger, Sullivan, Rockefeller and Morgan, Bill Gates, the Rothschilds, the Clintons, the Bushes who are the real masters of America the shadow State Department, the CFR. http://www.cfr.org
    I think it’s a very sad thing that Trump can do nothing but shout slogans and he can’t make fundamental changes in the American system. If he is serious about correcting political correctness, he should legislate. You could even say that you would see him having to bend to the CFR on a number of issues. Take COVID-19. As a biological practitioner, I tell you one thing seriously, China’s biological industry is about 20-30 years behind that of the United States. The stupid scientists of our communist party even think it is a great honor to sell the virus samples found in our country to Baric Wolf to make a vaccine for the benefit of mankind, they never think why the other side needs the virus. So will American scientists really work on a vaccine? That’s naive. The SARS epidemic in China in 2003 was a biological weapon war launched by the United States. The Americans engineered the virus we sent out, and they used it to attack us.
    By the way, there is a PRRA sequence in COVID-19, which is often thought to have been artificially modified because it was only present in cells until now, and you can even find it in a vaccine patent from moderna in 2017. GGA GCC GCC CGT GCA
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/KH664781.1?report=GenBank
    Could moderna 2017 have predicted what will happen in 2019? Also, the development of moderna’S mRNA vaccine is moving too fast. Look at Pfizer. Your media may not be reporting on this, but I can tell you that they are falsifying their data and they are not conducting double-blind trials. https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635
    Speaking of Moderna, you can check out their website. They were funded by DAPRA in 2013. As a top defense department arm, why invest in a company that was not considered promising at the time?
    http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2013/10/02/moderna-snags-25m-darpa-grant-fight-pandemics-mrna-drugs/
    Moderna has a deep partnership with Vertex. https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2016/07/06/moderna-vertex-collaborate-cystic-fibrosis/rEmPx5Ll746RmQL0oUNIiO/story. html
    Vertex, you can look at the company website and see their logo. Illuminati and LGBTQ, that’s interesting
    https://www.vrtx.com/
    The company has the world’s best technology for CRISPR/CAS tools, or gene-editing tools
    Vaccines and viruses, political correctness and illuminati, that’s what you end up thinking about. (I did a survey, and I can’t disclose the methodology, but I can tell you that Vertex is a Rockefeller Foundation-funded company.)
    https://www.rockefellerfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/Annual-Report-1968-1.pdf
    Vaccines and population programs, that sounds wonderful.
    Finally, from the perspective of coronavirus patents, the United States had coronavirus patents in 2004, while China had none for a long time. Why do you think a country 20 years behind technology can make something that will sweep the world. He could only say the virus came from China, so as not to touch deep pockets.
    Clearly, he is incapable of reaching the fundamental interests of the deep state, or else he will be put in a convertible car like Kennedy.

    • Replies: @skrik
  518. 迪路 says:
    @mike99588

    Although what I’m telling you doesn’t change anything, the people at the top are still at the top, and the cheated people are still cheated. But I want you to study hard, stay away from drugs, stop playing video games, and become someone who can stop the human race from wasting time in such pointless fights and dying. No matter what man is, so long as he is human, he has the mission to keep the human race alive.
    If you try to get into the upper class, you may come into contact with those deep states.
    Someday you’ll be the husband of one of the Rockefellers’ daughters, and you’ll actually change their behavior and their thinking.

  519. @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Indeed… But people like that anon prefer to listen to well orchestrated lies than the ugly truth

  520. skrik says:
    @迪路

    I suppose you refer to this:.. and more particularly to the part of the image titled “the great seal” and the text “annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum” = “enterprise signals the new world order”.

    But to repeat: IMHO, nothing at all ‘special’ about any of ’em, especially in the light of their almost continuous mass-murdering to steal others’ resources, then the vicious, lying propaganda they endlessly ‘catapult’.

    Thanks, but “No, thanks!” – I am no ‘septic.’ rgds

    • Replies: @迪路
  521. skrik says:
    @迪路

    there is a PRRA sequence in COVID-19, .. you can even find it in a vaccine patent from moderna in 2017. GGA GCC GCC CGT GCA

    Errr; IMHO *not* correct.

    I discussed the inserted 12-nucleotide PRRA sequence here [citing Nicholas Wade]; it is “T-CCT-CGG-CGG-GC” [off-frame!] From that, only CGGCGG occurs in your ncbi citation, but I do not find your quoted sequence anywhere? rgds

    • Replies: @迪路
    , @迪路
  522. 迪路 says:
    @skrik

    It really depends on what they do. Not what symbols they’re trying to make. I can give you an example from China’s diplomatic history with the United States.
    About their idea of reducing the global population… In fact, our country suffered from the one-child policy long ago. You may not know that Mr. Ma Yinchu, who designed our one-child policy, has eight children himself. Yes, you heard that right, a father of 8 who wants other fathers to have only one child. Although he was a Member of the Communist Party, he was also a Yale alumnus.
    I don’t need to say much about Yale as the cradle of America’s top statesmen. Ma Yinchu is probably the spy they trained. Otherwise Chairman MAO wouldn’t have locked him up for years. Of course, Chairman MAO himself had many mistakes, such as excessive fertility, which we will not talk about for the moment.
    I guess when Henry Kissinger came to China in the 1970s to talk to our leaders about the Us-China alliance against the Soviet Union, he made the one-child policy a condition, because that’s when it started. You know, Henry Kissinger was the Rockefellers’ strategist. The Rockefellers have made meeting with our leaders a higher priority than even the president of the United States.
    So back to the present, the Rockefellers realize that the US is unstable due to institutional and systemic problems, and now they want to put their roots in China. He invested heavily in part of the Communist Party and tried to bribe some officials. It looks like Jack Ma is a communist, but he’s already been with The Rockefellers.
    These top capitalists they don’t need borders. Like parasites and vampires, when they have squeezed everything out of a country’s people, they choose to squeeze elsewhere.

    • Thanks: skrik
  523. You are often wrong but seldom in doubt. The TLAM could carry a W-80 warhead once upon a time but that capability was phased out decades ago. For that matter so can a Mk-48 heavyweight in the past, but your article focuses on the TLAM because you are too ignorant to know about the ships capabilities. Doesn’t stop you from misleading people though.

    Connecticut and Jimmy Carter are not purpose built spy ships any more than any other submarine. If anything they are much more heavily modified for SEAL transport and balls to the wall high intensity maritime raiding. Submarines in general make poor recon platforms since reporting their findings makes them much easier to detect with ELINT.

    The reactor compartment cannot be breached and release contamination in the way you describe from colliding with something, even at a very high rate. Keep in mind that in 60 years of Nuclear Navy cruising, no US sub has had a radiation release incident.

    Please get a better base of knowledge and stop misleading people.

  524. @Mulga Mumblebrain

    NO one on Fox CNN ABC PBS NBC CBS has ever been to Xinjiang. If so –why are they experts ??

  525. @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Montreal Quebec is anothe big Jewish community and the scandals all originate from here–Via Rail, Shawinigate, Sports Scandal, SNC Lavalin, Liberal Party and today Justin Trudeau called election 2 years early to spend money and divert attention from Covid—

  526. @迪路

    “In God we trust” reads the writing but when the evidence is reviewed 245 years of existence and only 20 years of peace. Book of Job we meet Satan and he states ” From walking up and down the earth and all that is in it” and Satan again takes on Christ –Turn stones to bread(hunger) –Jump and angels will protect you ( suicide) and Fall down and worhip me and I will Give you all this ( the world) Hegemon-pride – Power-Control ——–and there it is —it is Not the Almighty but Satan who was cast down to earth who appears on that Dollar bill –by their fruits (Constant war –murder and lies) you will know them and their father –who is Satan —–

  527. @anon

    One would hope China would show more concern for Chinese-Americans than a bunch of Jews….you still can’t get it through your thick head. Jews are not in danger, Chinese/Asian-Americans are.

    Oh boo hoo.

    The world doesn’t revolve around you.

    We are talking about Jews here. Go seek attention somewhere else.

    What is with these ABCs/American Chinese????
    In trying to fit into US society, they have learned the worst traits of the Yanks.

    They are arrogant and diss “native Asians”. Now they want concern from China about themselves??? WTF?

  528. @迪路

    Generally speaking, the races that enter China are assimilated into China.

    This I agree with with all the different peoples China has encountered so far. However, with the Jews, I am not certain how much they will assimilate.

    My concern is this…there is a considerable chance that in the coming decade or so, Jews will experience such a backlash in the West, they make seek to find sanctuary somewhere else.

    There is also a large chance that Israel will not exist as a polity in the Levant soon. I anticipate that when the US weakens, she will no longer be able to defend Israel, and Israel as a functioning Jewish state will cease to exist.

    When this happens there will be a sizeable number of Jews that will seek sanctuary in China. When this happens the big question is: how well will they integrate/assimilate. If they will fully assimilate, then well and good. But if they continue to function as a distinctive group as they have done in the West for 2000 years, then that is not a good thing to have in China.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  529. @Deep Thought

    I think there IS a group of people who want to dominate the entire world but it is not the Jews. They are the white supremacists–

    Actually this impulse to proselytize the world is an Abrahamic trait.

    All the Abrahamic religions have it to some degree or other. The Christians definitely have it. The Muslims also have quite alot of it. The Jews to a lesser degree.

    I think the impulse to proselytize/convert others is hardwired into Western culture and it is especially strong in Yankee culture. Only with the US, they don’t force conversions to Christianity, they force conversions to their version of Democracy.

    Jews: Submit to YHWH or I will have nothing to do with you.
    Muslims: Submit to Allah or I will conquer your country then tax you.
    Christians: Submit to God or I will conquer your country then enslave you.
    Americans: Submit to Democracy or I will bomb you, then install a puppet regime to rule over you.

    • Agree: Deep Thought
    • Replies: @Deep Thought
    , @d dan
  530. 迪路 says:
    @skrik

    The sequence in NCBI was reversed.

    • Replies: @skrik
  531. skrik says:
    @迪路

    Thanks. I have now checked your codon-sequence “GGA GCC GCC CGT GCA” and lo and behold! IF one reverses your sequence [to “ACGTGCCCGCCGAGG”] THEN that reverse can be found in the ncbi/KH664781 fasta; so far so good. BUT: Next problem, no matter which order one chooses, that sequence does *not* ‘translate’ to PRRA [it yields GAARA in one direction, TCPPR in the other {my translation can be ‘checked’ using sixpack, say}]. It would appear that you have found *something* – but I still can’t see exactly what, and as it looks, certainly no PRRA. Perhaps you can ‘help us out?’ By citing your ‘originating’ source(s), perhaps? Or a reputable, checkable and apposite quote? Aka ‘please explain?’ rgds

    • Replies: @迪路
  532. 迪路 says:
    @skrik

    Genes complement each other in reverse, and you can find that by reversing the sequence.

  533. anon[271] • Disclaimer says:

    The Jews to a lesser degree.

    Says the guy who allegedly hails from Singapore – Israel’s bitch. Singapore – one of the few countries that actually takes the side of Israel in its ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. Singapore – the biggest shabbos goy country in Asia. Always was. Always will be.

    • Replies: @littlereddot
  534. Anon[410] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s obvious from this thread that the so-called (((China posters))) struggle with dual loyalties but not in the way they’d have you believe

  535. @littlereddot

    I am watching War for the Planet of the Apes on TV right now. It reminds me of some place: The apes (the oppressed) are black and “humans” white!

    • Agree: littlereddot
  536. Anon[896] • Disclaimer says:

    So you think blacks are comparable to “apes”? And all this time you’ve been harping on White racism…..Then again your intellectual caliber is reflected in the fact that you watch “Planet of the Apes.” LOL

  537. d dan says:
    @littlereddot

    “Americans: Submit to Democracy or I will bomb you, then install a puppet regime to rule over you….”

    In addition, they are also super hypocritical while doing the conversion. They will switch calling you a “freedom fighter” or “terrorist” anytime, anywhere, anyhow they like. They will proclaim “all men are created equal” while enslaving you. They will write “life, liberty and the pursuit…” when bombing your home. They take pride of being “we lie, we cheat, we steal…” while lecturing the world of “rule base order”. They promote “self-rule and democracy’ but demand submission to their long-arm jurisdiction….

    The hypocrisy and lying is so ingrained into so much of their habit and part of their culture, it is a sight to behold in human history, unparalleled to anything any other races could imagine, let alone to achieve.

    • Replies: @littlereddot
    , @Rabbitnexus
  538. Anonymous[240] • Disclaimer says:
    @littlereddot

    But if they continue to function as a distinctive group as they have done in the West for 2000 years, then that is not a good thing to have in China.

    They become Kaifeng Jews. Search them.

    The Kaifeng Jews are almost 100% the same genetically as the Han, but they have a Jewish identity. Therefore, the Han do not consider them Han.

    They’ve been in China for some 1,400 years, and all this time, they’ve been seen, and treated, as a welcome, well-behaved, and nonetheless alien presence. They’re completely safe, never persecuted, they interact with the Han, but the Han won’t let them near any kind of influence or power (economic, cultural, political). A friendly, welcome alien, is still, well, alien – that’s Han thinking for you.

    In fact, Uighur Turks, Tibetans, Mongols and Manchus, those who assimilate, are accepted into Han society. Groups like the Kaifeng Jews (seen as an alien group) or the Falun Gong (for loyalty to religion rather than culture/race) are not.

    • Agree: littlereddot
  539. 迪路 says:
    @skrik

    At first it was found by some people on Twitter, but I got banned from Twitter because I swore at a Taiwanese LGBTQ person.I also forgot the source.
    But I did find some reprinted from the Chinese website Zhihu. You may need to use a VPN.
    https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/378267130
    Of course this author has some original ideas. Some, like magnetic proteins that control the nervous system, might be a little crazy.I don’t really believe it.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/nn.4265
    It is also possible that I have underestimated the ugliness of human nature. With the exception of the mRNA vaccine, I don’t think the vaccine will be too much of a problem, and I’m still an advocate of vaccination. As for astrazeneca’s vaccine, it just sucks.
    From the point of view of conspiracy theory, the conspiracy theory itself is likely to be related to the people included in the conspiracy theory. Maybe conspiracy theories were created to make people believe they were conspiracy theories. So they won’t take it seriously. Anyway, I don’t believe in aliens.

    • Replies: @skrik
  540. @anon

    It is so sad to see the world in black and white.

    I suppose when one’s mind is unable to handle complexity, it has to reduce everything to simplistic dual poles.

    Besides, shouldn’t you address your own countries association with Israel before pointing fingers at others? We are not the ones give \$3.8 Billion of YOUR tax money to them. LOL.

    • Replies: @anon
  541. @Anon

    You know, travellers from Asia to the USA often find that the worst experiences they have there are with the Asian Americans?

    Somehow, in trying to gain approval from the Yanks, they do this:
    Distance themselves from “Native Asians” whom they regard as inferior
    Lick the asses of their white presumed “superiors” in the hope of gaining approval.

    Funny thing is, that now that their white masters have thrown them under the bus, they whine that “Native Asians” are not sympathetic enough for them?
    The Asian Americans who display this kind behaviour have shown that they have learned the overt Victimhood mentality we saw from the excesses of the BLM movement.

    Congratulations, you have managed to sell out your culture and your identity. Not yellow enough, and not white enough. Poor thing, I grieve for you.

    There there, somebody pities you. Do you feel better now?

    • Agree: Deep Thought
    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  542. @Anon

    You mind is able to interpret things only literally, and you have the gall to dismiss someone else’s intellect?

    LOL.

    Those who know, and know that they know are wise. Follow them.
    Those that don’t know that they don’t know are fools. Shun them.

    Guess which one you are?

    I shall now follow the Sage’s advice. You are not worth my attention. I will ignore you from now on.

    Have a good life, BANANA

  543. @anon

    Algebra and the zero are both from the Middle East. Actually Hindus first had zero, but the Arabs put it into Algebra and we got the zero through them.

    • Replies: @anon
  544. @anon

    Speaking of education. This is a very interesting read for anyone who doubts human ciivilisation is a relay race, and many cultures have contributed, after having first risen up on what went before by others. One would have to be a truly prejudiced and short sighted individual to try and assert their particular culture somehow contributed more than any other.

    https://www.mei.edu/publications/islamic-civilization

    • Replies: @littlereddot
  545. @d dan

    Totally agree. What is the clincher is that in doing all these misdeeds, the Average Joe is actually convinced that he is justified……kinda like when the suicide Jihadi activates his bomb vest at the marketplace and kills 20 innocent bystanders, he too thinks that he is pursuing a righteous cause.

  546. @d dan

    Ancient Greek saying. “Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad.”

    The USA is in it’s end run. Only the willfully blind won’t see this. By no means the only nation or institution which has hit a wall either. In all cases if impending doom or metamorphosis, because the end of one thing is the start of another, there seems to be an astonishing degree of insane, irrational thinking. I see it in these wanky big global meets where they waffle on as only politicians among politicians could do. They make preposterous dictates and statements which have emotional impact as their only motivation, which neither address the actual problems which brought them together, nor which are usually even feasible in a rational world such as what surrounds this gibbering ape civilisation. The madness rises and the crazy beast spins faster. There’s a vortex forming in the center of human civilisation and it is sucking those clinging to the mix towards it’s bottomless abyss while simultaneously throwing those on the periphery away and outwards.

    The insanity in the USA at this time has reached a level of madness that defies description. Between Bathos and Pathos we need a new form. Maybe there’s a word and my vocabulary simply hasn’t been gifted with it. The way in which virtually EVERYTHING means its exact opposite is become nothing short of art. A masterpiece of deception. Didn’t CIA director Bill Casey say “We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.” ? Has anyone ever stopped right there to consider the CIA’s mandate DOES NOT permit them to operate against Americans and within own borders? I guess he was speaking prophetically anyway, because here we are.

    Unfortunately, by extension so to are many other Western nations. Those of us like Canada, UK, Australia etc have been occupied literally in some cases and dominated culturally in all. When the US sneezes we all catch colds. Or COVID I suppose. So here too, madness seems to rule. Oxymorons abound and morons spouting them. Magical thinking is on the rise, and has replaced reason. The government, evidently a big fat one world government, is now the arbiter of “Science” and guardians of the dogma which it has now become. All heretics, formerly our best and brightest, shall be silent or face the inquisition.

    Anyway, I am just ranting now. Not even sure what I started out for. Nor am I going to unravel it further. This is all. Madness is the order of the day and we can expect Olympian feats of madness as each fuckwit bouncing around on the scum at the top seeks to better the lunatic before. Look at Dan Andrews. The grub is on a roll, but there’s others watching jealously in the wings. Thinking they can do better and they will as soon as the cameras pan their way. People love competition. Just watch them compete to be the most insane fucking fruit-loop in power.

  547. @Anon

    So you think blacks are comparable to “apes”? And all this time you’ve been harping on White racism….

    .

    Nope! I was NOT me who made that film. Someone who did compared some humans to the “apes”.

    Then again your intellectual caliber is reflected in the fact that you watch “Planet of the Apes.”

    In that film, the “apes” was the species that was oppressed by the white humans. In real life, there are non-white races, who are oppressed by white humans!!! THAT is MY comparison.

    What does that make “your intellectual caliber”?!

    • Replies: @anon
  548. @littlereddot

    Somehow, in trying to gain approval from the Yanks, they do this:

    Distance themselves from “Native Asians” whom they regard as inferior
    Lick the asses of their white presumed “superiors” in the hope of gaining approval.

    Of course, we have the same type of whiteman’s house-niggers in Hong Kong too.

  549. skrik says:
    @迪路

    Thanks and OK. The Zhihu article [very hard to read!] holds at least one ‘secret’ to PRRA and the patent from moderna in 2017 ncbi sequence:

    In addition to these 15 bases, there are four bases before and after the new coronavirus gene that match the Moderna patent (19 bases in total).

    CT-CCT CGG CGG GCA CGT-AG

    GA-GGA GCC GCC CGT GCA-TC

    Ah-ha! Recall:

    1) The SARS-CoV-2 inserted 12-nucleotide PRRA sequence “T-CCT-CGG-CGG-GC”, and

    2) Your cited “GGA GCC GCC CGT GCA” sequence.

    Now (1) is within the 1st quoted Zhihu article line, (2) is within the 2nd line.

    Q: Any connection? A: Yes!

    Sixpack reads a DNA sequence and outputs the three forward and (optionally) three reverse translations in a visual manner

    Here is some sixpack output
    { L L G G H V X__F1
    __S S A G T *_____F2
    ___P R R A R X____F3
    1 CTCCTCGGCGGGCACGTAG 19
    —-:—-|—-:—-
    1 GAGGAGCCGCCCGTGCATC 19
    __X R P P C T ___F6
    ___X G R R A R L__F5
    ____E E A P V Y ____F4} [I can’t control the formatting, but note the F3 line contains PRRA and the F6 line contains TCPPR in reverse.]

    Sooo; input 1st line and get 2nd, then reverse that and find it in the moderna ncbi sequence. Phew!

    As for conspiracies, this looks like a bewdie; over to you. rgds

    • Replies: @迪路
  550. anon[247] • Disclaimer says:
    @littlereddot

    Besides, shouldn’t you address your own countries association with Israel before pointing fingers at others? We are not the ones give \$3.8 Billion of YOUR tax money to them.

    We do. In fact, a large portion of the articles on UR deals with this very issue. Strangely enough, the only people who decide to avoid this issue are you and your cronies, who claim to be of Chinese origin. But given your posts, that’s become increasingly dubious. In any case, what lobby in the US even makes it possible and necessary that the US give \$3.8 Billlion to Israel? The fact that you’re even aware of American aid to Israel is a clear sign that you and your friends are not as ignorant about Jewish-related issues as you claim to be.

    I suppose when one’s mind is unable to handle complexity, it has to reduce everything to simplistic dual poles.

    This basically sums up all your posts. You and your cronies consistently basically view the world in black-and-white terms where the White man is the oppressor and other races the victim. Your friend @Deep Thought even believes that a cabal of “white supremacists” rule the world, not Jews. Your other friend @d dan believes that Whites have historically oppressed Jews (and not the other way around), accepting mainstream historiography and scholarship about Jews in the West while totally rejecting mainstream views about the Chinese government with regard to Tibet, Xinjiang, Tiananmen Square, etc. I’ll even quote you to show you how overly simplistic and basic bitch your worldview and politics is:

    Jews: Submit to YHWH or I will have nothing to do with you.
    Muslims: Submit to Allah or I will conquer your country then tax you.
    Christians: Submit to God or I will conquer your country then enslave you.
    Americans: Submit to Democracy or I will bomb you, then install a puppet regime to rule over you.

    By a strange (((coincidence))), you only started complaining about lack of nuance and “simplistic dualistic poles” in worldviews when you were called out for your double standards with regards to Jewish people, which says a lot about the agenda and/or ignorance of you and your friends. And the quote above is not only simplistic but grossly inaccurate, since it ignores the role of neocon Jews in shaping American foreign policy. It also disingenuously pretends that politically-active Jews have a “live and let live” attitude (despite their role in Bolshevism, Communism, and Zionism) despite the fact that your very own country’s military was created by the IDF!!

  551. 迪路 says:
    @skrik

    My guess is, if you keep digging into Moderna’s flagship pioneering investment company. You might find out a little bit more about the machinations of these top elites, like the tip of a giant octopus.
    For those at the top of the elite, at least jack Ma and Pony Ma, two Of China’s financial titans, belong to them. What you may not know is that taobao Creation Festival even tries to promote illuminati directly.
    No matter what the political system, we should not allow cults to run the world.
    I think the best way to deal with those at the top is to spread Maoist communism to their children. It’s attractive, much more attractive than the Soviet Union’s imperial communism. They are so fond of spreading political correctness and wanting to tear other families apart, so why don’t we let their children rebel against their parents?
    I think this kind of action can be carried out by handing out leaflets near noble schools and so on.
    Of course, I may have been naive.

    • Replies: @skrik
  552. anon[247] • Disclaimer says:
    @Deep Thought

    Nope! I was NOT me who made that film. Someone who did compared some humans to the “apes”.

    You didn’t make the film. But you’re the one who interpreted the “apes” as proxies for black people!! LOL

    I guess we can’t be too harsh on you since many AIs have made the same mistake.

    In that film, the “apes” was the species that was oppressed by the white humans. In real life, there are non-white races, who are oppressed by white humans!!! THAT is MY comparison.

    I actually don’t mind you watching and enjoying the films – the original version with Charlton Heston is somewhat of a cult classic. It’s just silly and immature to bring it up on this thread. Unless this is a Trevor Lynch article, you’re in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Actually, in the recent remake that you are alluding to, the “apes” were played by WHITE actors, Andy Serkis having played the role of Caesar. In the film itself, the humans are not categorically all-white, but include many black people as well. The supervisor of Gen-Sys is played by David Oyelowo, who is an African-British actor.

    You apparently don’t even understand the timeline of the film. “Rise of Planet of the Apes” is a prequel to the original “Planet of the Apes,” which shows apes ruling the world and oppressing human beings (including black, white, and other races).

    You don’t even analyze the themes and motifs of the film correctly, even if it were appropriate to bring it up. I recommend that you read more sophisticated movie reviews and critiques. It’s sad that your only takeaway from this cult classic is “apes are oppressed blacks, humans are evil white man.” If anything, it is you who act like the apes in the film with your woke grug interpretation.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  553. skrik says:
    @迪路

    If I may, I will ‘remain seized’ upon the PRRA.

    if you keep digging into Moderna’s flagship pioneering investment company. You might find out a little bit more about the machinations

    OK; I have another quote from your Zhihu citation:

    The reason is simple. The PRRAR fragment is unknown. It was not until the outbreak of the 2019 epidemic that researchers learned about this fragment from the new coronavirus genome, and it is the most critical part of the new coronavirus gene. It is the artificially embedded PRRAR fragment that is the last A new coronavirus is produced. Moderna’s patent is equivalent to announcing to the world that it understood this fragment in 2017 and introduced it into its own mRNA products, whether it is derived from bacterial genes or artificially edited. Huge suspicion. What’s more, it is the main supplier of the new crown vaccine, and this fragment is included in the mRNA vaccine for the spike protein. To describe everything as a coincidence is too light.
    As a conspiracy theorist, this fragment in Moderna’s patent is enough to strengthen my previous judgment. It showed me a complete picture of the new coronavirus synthesis, and everything became clear. They can kill witnesses, close the laboratory, delete information, open their eyes and tell lies and evade each other’s responsibilities, but the data will not lie, and the genetic sequence will not lie

    Methodology [gxl8; 迪路 = Dilu: I ‘r-clicked’ Dilu’s Zhihu URL, chose ‘save as’. Then, I loaded the saved object into a browser with ‘scripts off’. This resulted in a page of mostly ‘kanji’ characters, which I ‘copy/pasted’ back into gxl8; that yielded English-language text. I take no responsibility for the quotes, I just ‘report.’

    Now I would like to suggest that this represents a ‘true *bombshell*’ but I pass it over for discussion. rgds

    • Replies: @迪路
    , @迪路
  554. @Realist

    “Excellent idea…I hope the Chinese are on it.”

    Realist,
    REALLY? So soon after Armed Forces Day? I would invite anyone with the attitude that our potential adversaries should attack one of our warships, to kiss my ass.

    I hope you are “on it” soon.

    • Replies: @Realist
  555. Realist says:
    @elysianfield

    I would invite anyone with the attitude that our potential adversaries should attack one of our warships, to kiss my ass.

    I hope you are “on it” soon.

    I’m sure your head is in the way.

    Our warships have absolutely no business in the south China Sea. they are there for hegemonic reasons only.

  556. anon[117] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rabbitnexus

    Algebra and the zero are both from the Middle East. Actually Hindus first had zero, but the Arabs put it into Algebra and we got the zero through them.

    There’s a lot to be said to your post.

    As any Iranian will tell you, Al-Khwarizmi was Persian, not Arab. In fact, most of the major thinkers and intellectuals of “Islamic civilization” were Persians. Persians are a Caucasoid ethnic group. They are unequivocally a European people (despite all the predictable straw-man arguments that I know you are about to respond with).

    Their admixture with Arabs is still negligible. It was much more negligible in Al-Khwarizmi’s time around 800 A.D. than it is today. Alexander conquered them, and his generals intermarried with their elites. The Persian word for Iran means “land of the Aryans.” They were described as light-skinned people and that is how they were depicted in Greek and Persian art and literature.

    Don’t come here spreading your nonsense. Sacred and holy Iran is the only country in the world that is not under Zionist hegemony, unlike the despicable merchant nation of Singapore. That’s why they are constantly in the crosshairs of ZOG America.

    From the inscription of Darius the Great at Bisutun: “I am a Persian, son of a Persian, an Aryan of the Aryan race.”

    Speaking of Persia, here is what Hegel had to say:

    “Asia separates itself into two parts – Hither and Farther Asia; which are essentially different from each other. While the Chinese and Hindoos – the two great nations of Farther Asia, already considered – belong to the strictly Asiatic, namely the Mongolian Race, and consequently possess a quite peculiar character, discrepant from ours; the nations of Hither Asia belong to the Caucasian, i.e. the European Stock. They are related to the West, while the Farther- Asiatic peoples are perfectly isolated.”

  557. 迪路 says:
    @skrik

    I don’t think you should tell too many people, even if you dig up a lot. None of this matters to the elite. You may even suffer for it, like those associated with the Clintons.
    One theory is that Clinton is Rockefeller’s illegitimate child.
    I don’t know if you’ve seen the Eyes Wide Shut movie, which is alluding to the Clintons. Kubrick, known as the god of cinema, died of a heart attack just days after providing the film. I think kubrick as a Jew does have a lot of upper elite secrets. Well, the CIA does have this assassination technique where people die of heart attacks.

  558. 迪路 says:
    @skrik

    https://www.biospace.com/article/moderna-rebuts-patent-claims-for-covid-19-vaccine-made-by-the-national-institutes-of-health/
    One of the most interesting things that happened recently was the patent dispute between NIH and Moderna.
    I think NIH knew the sequence a long time ago.

    • Replies: @skrik
  559. @Anon

    The antisemitism in this place has gotten so toxic Chinese are routinely accused of being Jews. Sometimes even by Jews.

    *sigh*

  560. @anon

    Your ancestors subjugated weak races by force. They didn’t talk them into submission. Stop being pathetic.

  561. @Rabbitnexus

    human ciivilisation is a relay race,

    Absolutely right! Unfortunately so many people who are inordinately proud of their own tribe select facts to reinforce their own racial pride. When some other culture has made a contribution, it must be somehow minimized or explained away.

    It has been my experience that people who are inordinately proud of their race (even to the extent of claiming Iranian “Europeaness”, and dismissing the contributions of the Semites) ….. they do this for a reason that they themselves are not aware of.

    It is when these people have few personal achievements to be proud of, that they latch onto the “glory of the tribe” to feel some some pride. For example, a low achieving black guy might make himself feel better by claiming that “We wuz kangz and shiet”. In the same way a similarly low achieving white guy would claim “it is only because of the inventions and genius of the caucasoids that the world is so great now”.

    Have you noticed that the really high achieving individuals don’t really care too much about racial pride? It is mostly the white trash rednecks and the gangstas in the hood that are into all that stuff?

  562. @anon

    You didn’t make the film. But you’re the one who interpreted the “apes” as proxies for black people!!

    This is what I said:

    The apes (the oppressed) are black and “humans” white!

    I interpreted the “apes” (in that film) as the oppressed and so did the maker of that film. It just so happens that they are black– just like one group of the main victims of the white humans today, and that makes a convenient analogy.

    The AI, that beat all human players in the game of Go, probably would not hesitate to make the same analogy.

    Actually, in the recent remake that you are alluding to, the “apes” were played by WHITE actors, Andy Serkis having played the role of Caesar.

    How does “who plays what role” in the film affect the analogy?

    In the film itself, the humans are not categorically all-white, but include many black people as well. The supervisor of Gen-Sys is played by David Oyelowo, who is an African-British actor.

    In real life, there were Uncle Tom’s. Their existence did not make the society they lived in not a whites dominated racist society. Hell, even the existence of an Uncle Tom President did NOT change the fact that murrika was dedicated to maintaining white hegemony over the entire world!!

    You apparently don’t even understand the timeline of the film. “Rise of Planet of the Apes” is a prequel to the original “Planet of the Apes,” which shows apes ruling the world and oppressing human beings (including black, white, and other races).

    So, it is a story about the oppressors and the oppressed– same as the one we are talking about. Of course, in real life, it is entirely POSSIBLE that black humans oppressed white humans sometime in history. Such a possibility is not excluded by the Laws of Nature, although I don’t know if that happened or not.

    You don’t even analyze the themes and motifs of the film correctly, even if it were appropriate to bring it up. I recommend that you read more sophisticated movie reviews and critiques. It’s sad that your only takeaway from this cult classic is “apes are oppressed blacks, humans are evil white man.”

    I do not take “Planet of the Apes” as a work of science. Apparently you do. Fictions do NOT have to mirror real life events precisely over historical time. So, I have no idea why you keep yapping and bring up the prequels of the series.

    If anything, it is you who act like the apes in the film with your woke grug interpretation.

    “Apes” is certainly how a major segment of the white people see the non-whites, whom the white supremacists consider inferior– especially those from “shit-hole” countries. You have proved that you are one of such whites.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @d dan
    , @littlereddot
  563. Anon[105] • Disclaimer says:

    @Deep Thought

    The apes in “Planet of the Apes” do not and never did represent “black” people. That was never intended in the original or in the remakes. You view the “apes” as black people because you have a hidden racist streak. Stop trying to get out of it Apologize for your statement

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Deep Thought
  564. anon[259] • Disclaimer says:
    @Deep Thought

    I interpreted the “apes” (in that film) as the oppressed and so did the maker of that film.

    No, you interpreted the “apes” in the film as corresponding to black people, which neither the maker of the original nor the recent remakes ever intended. You didn’t merely interpret them as being “oppressed” – you interpreted them as proxies for black people. Your racism has been totally exposed, and everything else in your post is a desperate attempt to get out of it. The film itself is