The Unz Review • An Alternative Media Selection$
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 Robert Roth Archive
Celebrating the Rebel Jesus
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • B
Show CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

“Tell me, say – what kind of man this Jesus is, my lord?”

– Buffy Ste.-Marie, “Ananais”

The media distorted parts of Jesus’ message right from the start. The Gospels, and the first generation of Jesus’ followers, effectively altered or hid his more radical teachings, and what has been preached from a million pulpits and that we still get from many today is a gross distortion. Jesus was not preoccupied with individual “sin” but with systemic injustice, in opposition to the commercializing empire of his time. The historical Jesus disclosed by contemporary scholarship appears to be fundamentally the same as the Jesus who is preached and practiced in the Catholic Worker movement, for example. And the parallels between his conflict with Rome and our own with imperial America are striking indeed.

Then as now, the maldistribution of wealth was quite severe, with peasants comprising the bulk of the population. “The term peasant … denotes a relationship of exploitation in which the vast majority who produce the food on which everyone and everything depends are consistently relieved of their surplus, so that a small minority have a huge surplus while most remain at a subsistence level. Simply: a peasant is a systematically exploited farmer.” John Dominic Crossan, The Essential Jesus 4 (1995). Being a Jewish peasant had its saving moments, however, because of “a traditional ideology of land … enshrined in the ancient Pentateuchal laws.” Just as the people were to rest on the seventh or Sabbath Day, so God’s land was to rest on the seventh or Sabbath Year, when Jewish debts were to be remitted and Jewish slaves released. Exodus 23:10-11; Deuteronomy 15:1-3, 12-14,” Id. 5-6. And in the “Jubilee Year, the year after seven sets of Sabbath Years, all expropriated lands and even village houses, though not city ones, were to revert to their original or traditional owners. Leviticus 25:10, 18. “While the Jubilee Year was most likely no longer implemented at all by the first century, the Sabbath Year was probably still more or less enforced.” Id. 6. Those ancient laws “refuse to see debt, slavery, or land expropriation simply as business transactions. The land is a divine possession not a negotiable commodity[:] … ‘The land shall not be sold in perpetuity, for the land is mine; with me you are but aliens and tenants.'” Leviticus 25:23.

By Jesus’ day, however, the Roman Empire was no longer a traditional but a commercialized agrarian empire. To the Roman imperialist, land accumulation was a sensible business practice and debt foreclosure the best and quickest way to accomplish it. Crossan, The Essential Jesus 6. In first century Palestine, the Jewish peasantry was being pushed into debt and displaced from its holdings at unusually high rates, since land became, under the commercialized Roman economy, less an ancestral inheritance never to be abandoned and more an entrepreneurial commodity rapidly to be exploited. As higher rates of imperial and Herodian taxation forced increasing numbers of peasants from their land, there developed a growing class of destitute people with few options. One could become an artisan, a prostitute, a beggar, or a bandit. In this context Jesus of Nazareth appeared, the son of an artisan.

“Repent and believe in the gospel.” But “repentance” is not about a feeling of penitance for individual sins. It means a turning, at a more fundamental level, of the heart and soul to God. Marcus J. Borg, Jesus: A New Vision 122 n. 74, and 163-164 (1987). “The prophets called Israel to repent, which meant to turn or return, and which referred primarily to a change in Israel’s collective life, and not simply to a change in individual lives.” Id., 153 text and n. 13. Belief in the gospel does not mean merely to believe, as a condition of salvation, in certain doctrines or teachings, but to “give one’s heart to” the good news that the Kingdom of God is at hand. See Marcus J. Borg, Meeting Jesus Again For The First Time 137 (1995). And the Kingdom entails both religious and political meanings, in a situation of imperial domination and colonial exploitation. “The phrase evokes an ideal vision of political and religious power, of how this world here below would be run if God, not Caesar, sat on the imperial throne.” John Dominic Crossan, The Essential Jesus 7-8.

In the Kingdom of God, it is not the rich who are favored, but the destitute. As destitute people flocked to Jesus to hear his teaching and to see or be cured by his mighty works, he taught them by the example of his life, as well. Be compassionate as God is compassionate. (Luke 6:36; see Marcus J. Borg, Meeting Jesus Again 46, text and fn. 1.) Judge not, lest you be judged. If you have two coats and your brother has none, give one to your brother. Never refuse alms to one who asks for them. What you do for the least of these, you do for me. Love your neighbor as yourself. And who is my neighbor? A broken stranger lying by the side of the road. Eating and drinking, Jesus practiced open commensality, shared table fellowship, that mirrored many of his stories in their radical egalitarianism. He practiced free healing, declining to set up a brokered healing business that would stay in one place and let his disciples mediate access to him for a fee. Instead, he was always on the move for the next town, personally and directly accessible, and always performed, as it were, free of charge. He didn’t make people dependent on his power: he empowered them.

The stories of Jesus’ interactions with women are remarkable. First century Judaism was deeply patriarchal. Women had few rights; they could not be witnesses in a court of law, or initiate a divorce. They were not to be taught the Torah and were to be separated from men in public life. Respectable women did not go out of the house unescorted by a family member; adult women were to be veiled in public. But Jesus defended the woman who entered an all-male banquet, unveiled and with her hair unbraided, and washed his feet with her hair. While being hosted by Mary and Martha, he affirmed Mary’s choice of the role of disciple. And of course, he spoke to the Samaritan woman at the well. Women were apparently part of the itinerant group traveling with Jesus; the movement itself was financially supported by some wealthy women. And the evidence is compelling that women played leadership roles in the early post-Easter community. Marcus Borg, Meeting Jesus Again For the First Time 57 (1995).

“When you go into any land and walk about in the districts, if they receive you, eat what they will set before you, and heal the sick among them.” Gospel of Thomas 14:2. See also Luke 10:4-11 = Matt 10:8-14 and Mark 6:8-13 = Matt 10:8-10a, 11 = Luke 9:2-6. John Dominic Crossan in a study based in part on the Didache argues persuasively that the itinerants who went out preaching the gospel in the century or so following Jesus’ ministry offered free healing in exchange for a meal, carrying on the practice mentioned, briefly, in the Gospels. Crossan, The Essential Jesus 9-10, and The Birth of Christianity, passim. Crossan speculates that the disciples were sent out two by two because one of them was likely female in many cases, and the two would travel as a couple for the woman’s protection.

The Kingdom movement was thus a form of community organizing, Jesus’ program of empowerment for a peasantry becoming steadily more hard-pressed through insistent taxation, indebtedness, and eventual loss of land, within the commercialized Roman Empire under Augustan peace and a Lower Galilee under Herodian urbanization. “Jesus lived, against the systemic injustice and structural evil of that situation, an alternative open to all who would accept it: a life of [free] healing and shared eating, of radical itinerancy, programmatic homelessness, and fundamental egalitarianism, of human contact without discrimination, and of divine contact without hierarchy. He also died for that alternative.” Crossan, The Essential Jesus 12.

The parallels with contemporary events could scarcely be more clear, or more striking. The form of globalization promoted by the elites of the rich countries and their instruments such as the IMF and the World Bank have driven peasants the world over off their land and into lives and early deaths of destitution. For example, “[p]rior to the 1910 revolution, wealthy landowners had confiscated most of indigenous Mexico’s communal farmland, reducing the campesinos to a state of serfdom. … [L]argely through the struggle of Zapata and his followers … the Mexican constitution of 1917, [in] Article 27, guaranteed the return and protection of communal land to farmers. … [A]lthough land reform [thus] became law in Mexico, it was only partially carried out. However, on January 1, 1994, as a condition of Mexico’s joining the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), Article 27 of the Mexican constitution was abolished. An organization of Mayan Indians from the state of Chiapas, calling themselves the Zapatista Army of National Liberation (EZLN), recognized this abolition as a death sentence for Mexico’s rural indigenous population. NAFTA would force farmers who could not compete with foreign investors’ technology and equipment off the land, thus opening up a wealth of cheap land and labor for exploitation by international corporations.” Donald Nollar, “Fighting For Our Lives,” Catholic Agitator (May, 2001), p. 1.

The rest has become part of our recent history, and is still going on. Similar scenarios have played out all across the globe. The rich countries continue to enforce austerity on developing countries, while seeking access to their markets and buying up their resources, resulting in widespread poverty and the devastation of their economies. The commercializing empires have gone global.

And the commercializing empires of the industrialized world seek to reduce everything that was once regarded as personal or unique or holy to the status of interchangeable, salable commodities, demanding that all resources, including human beings, be accessible for exploitation, ostensibly to maximize production. But we all know what a rising tide does to those who have no boats, and it’s happening every minute of every day to people throughout the world.

At this point, the very idea of the common good is under relentless attack. That’s what is so evil about the current attacks on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and the safety net generally, such as it still is. The real animus behind these attacks is hostility to the idea of the common good, the notion that we should care about and for one another, the very idea that we have interests in common that we can and should address collectively, through government as well as other forms of social organization. But caring for one another is our natural state, so a sustained program of propaganda is in place to persuade us to think only of wealth, forgetting all but self.

And what I think we need not only to counter these forces but to build community for its own sake is organizing: the development of common understandings and relationships of trust that will enable enough of us to act collectively, constructively, in coordination, to redeem the commons and serve the common good. Given that the airwaves are saturated with lies, the truth needs to be shared through other means: mind-to-mind, hand-to-hand, person-to-person, sometimes but not necessarily face-to-face and one-on-one. That’s what organizing ultimately is, and it can be accomplished in a variety of ways, including by the written as well as the spoken word.

We are called upon, in the present age, to oppose these forces of injustice and oppression, and to defend the commons, our common humanity, and the common good, and with them our neighbors, including and especially the most vulnerable among us. We are called upon by our very nature, our needs as human beings for fulfillment through relationship and community. But in answering that call, we also have the powerful and heroic example of the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth – as Jackson Browne has aptly called him, the rebel Jesus.

Robert Roth prosecuted false advertising and consumer fraud as an assistant attorney general for New York (1981-1991) and Oregon (1993-2007). Since retiring he has written critiques of US foreign policy on Ukraine ( https://newcoldwar.org/how-obamas-aggression-in-ukraine-risks-nuclear-war/ , January 3, 2017) and Syria ( http://www.syriasolidaritymovement.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/RobRothSyriaPrimer_v3.4.pdf , February 5, 2017).

(Republished from Counterpunch by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: History, Ideology • Tags: Christianity, Inequality, Jesus 
Hide 340 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. gay troll says:

    What an absolute load of BS. If you want to argue for a historical Jesus, why not provide some historical sources that attest to his existence? Instead we have a few historical opinions based upon – what else? – the biography of the Gospels. That’s because the Gospels are the only biography of Christ. And judging by the way the Gospels are written, they are all derived from Mark.

    Scholars believe Mark is the earliest gospel, and all the other Gospels are derived from it. This is obvious since the synoptics are in large part copies of each other. Therefore they do not corroborate each other; they suggest in fact that Mark is the biography that all other biographies of Christ are based upon.

    And if you read Mark, it’s obviously not written as history. It is written as parable. It emphasizes this over and over again. It says that the teachings of heaven MUST be related in parable. It says the word of God is like scattered seed that will only grow in a few places. It says only few will understand the true meaning of the teaching.

    Could Mark be literally true? Obviously not. The central point of Mark’s narrative is that Jesus Christ is world famous, anticipated and adored wherever he travels, hiding from crowds who relentlessly seek him out. Yet no witness to 1st century Judea attests to the life of Christ. Not Philo, not Seneca, despite their respective proto Christian philosophies. As said, Mark is the only purported witness to the life of Christ, the witness upon which all other accounts are based. Yet Mark advertises itself as literature and not history.

    Furthermore, although Mark is the first biography of Christ, it is based on the earlier writings of Paul, who described Christ without ever mentioning his biography. Paul’s Christ is a celestial being temporarily made mortal. He is not a teacher, or wise man, or healer. He does not have human parents and was not born in a manger. He was not executed on a cross; he was not executed by Romans. He was not witnessed by any multitude. Paul says he learned about Jesus from the Jewish Bible.

    Thus in the inverted pyramid of Christian Scripture, Paul is the base, the single point that rests on nothing. Paul clearly states that he is the architect of the foundation of Christianity and any one who builds on his work will have their work tested by fire. Mark built on Paul, Matthew built on Mark, et cetera ad infinitum. But there is no historical messiah at the beginning of Christianity. There is only Paul and his Septuagint trying to entice the goyim to donations to Jerusalem.

    Also this idea that Jesus was in revolt against Roman influence is pure poppycock. The Jesus of the Gospels says clearly that he has only come to instruct the Jews in the evil of their ways. He speaks out against Mosaic law: against divorce, against the sabbath, against male and heteronormative chauvinism, against tribal chauvinism, against material gain, against dietary law. The Jesus of the Gospels is unabashedly pro Roman, as he predicts the “justice” meted out by Titus that will happen 40 years after the alleged crucifixion.

    Really the only thing the historicists can hang their hat on is the Flavian Testimony in the works of Josephus. But for numerous reasons it is obvious that this “testimony” was interpolated by Eusebius centuries later.

  2. gay troll says:

    Question for the author: do you believe this “historical figure” was born on December 25th? If so, why?

  3. Getting people to focus on the fanfic about a first-century almost-certainly-fictional grifter in a sandy primitive shithole, is not going to help. It’s going to make gullible imbeciles sit on their hands waiting for salvation from an equally-fictional Sky Maniac.

    It’s the time-worn trope on which the powerful have relied for centuries: no need to put the parasitoid assholes to the sword – wait and an Omni³ (omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent) sky fairy will swoop down and uplift the proles.

    Not going to happen. Never has, never will.

    It’s as stupid as spending tax dollars on child-warehouses for the waste-of-ejaculate offspring of the Deltas and Epsilons, and claiming that those offspring will finish 12 years of warehousing being able to compose a sentence or perform trivial mental arithmetic.

    Continuing to suckle at the teat of superstitious bullshit about some mythical beta-revolutionary who got nailed to a tree, will continue to produce its predictable yield: i.e., precisely nothing.

    But do make sure and get your 4th jab (in less than a year? Really? SAFE AND EFFECTIVE), and keep your face-burqa properly secured while doing so, you ignorant, gullible mouth-breathing retards.

    This starts to end once the first IED detonates under the first Pharma CEO or public health official.

    Literally nothing else is going to work – but what is #1 with a bullet in the taxonomy of “shit that’s guaranteed not to work” is “invoking a stupid story about a failed Jewish agitator with a fondness for circumlocution“.

  4. Chris Moore says: • Website

    By Jesus’ day, however, the Roman Empire was no longer a traditional but a commercialized agrarian empire. To the Roman imperialist, land accumulation was a sensible business practice and debt foreclosure the best and quickest way to accomplish it. Crossan, The Essential Jesus 6. In first century Palestine, the Jewish peasantry was being pushed into debt and displaced from its holdings at unusually high rates, since land became, under the commercialized Roman economy, less an ancestral inheritance never to be abandoned and more an entrepreneurial commodity rapidly to be exploited. As higher rates of imperial and Herodian taxation forced increasing numbers of peasants from their land, there developed a growing class of destitute people with few options. One could become an artisan, a prostitute, a beggar, or a bandit. In this context Jesus of Nazareth appeared, the son of an artisan.

    Jesus was a Jew, not a ((Jew)). ((Jews)) are accomplices of Empire and its abuses. ((Jews)) are into every grift that Empire is into. ((Jews)) will backstab their own for easy money, their own brothers (“nest of vipers”), and when the Jewish establishment became consigliere to Rome, and moneychangers for Rome, it became fully and permanently ((Jewish)). Some of it ALWAYS was.

    ((Jews)) are the Hebe-Yid grifters and killers of today, still scamming their way through life, still greasing the skids for Empire, still profiteering every step of the way. And they still can’t be trusted, including Israeli ((Jews)), and especially moneyed ((Jews)).

  5. @Chris Moore

    Jesus was a Jew huh? Was he also the Mashiach? Was he the rightful king of the Jews?

    Matthew tells us that Jesus is NOT the seed of Joseph, while offering genealogy to prove that Joseph is the seed of David. Therefore according to Matthew, Jesus is not the seed of David. Therefore he cannot be the Mashiach. He only appears to be.

    So what gives? Why is this pretender to the Jewish throne speaking out against the law of Moses? If you’re going to labor under the delusion of a historical Christ, you better start thinking of him as a naughty Israelite, if not a pagan deity. The last thing he represents is O.G. Judaism.

  6. Is the writer the same Robert Roth, a Jew:

    Currently Roth is a high school Social Studies teacher and community activist at Mission High School in San Francisco.[35] He can be seen in the groundbreaking film It’s Elementary, which focuses on teaching gay issues in schools. The film aired on PBS and is a model for educators across the country.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Roth_%28activist%29

    He writes:

    Jesus was not preoccupied with individual “sin”…. But “repentance” is not about a feeling of penitance for individual sins.

    But this is not supported by any significant Christian group I have ever encountered not least because it contradicts the teaching of Jesus in the gospels:

    “Truly, truly, I say to you, every person who practices sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not continue in the house for ever; the son continues for ever. So, if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.” (John 8:34-36)

    He told the woman taken in adultery (whom He saved from stoning):

    When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?” 11 And she said, “No one, Lord.” Then Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”

    Homosexuals, adulterers, indeed anyone who sins can receive the same forgiveness as the woman above but it does not come by denying personal sin. The other means of self deception is to ignore personal sin by focussing on the sins of others so you end up with BLM …….

    The gospels describe Jesus as forgiving sins which enraged the Jews but there will be people this Christmas who will know what it is like to feel that weight lifted from them no matter the screams of the demons or the prideful who cannot admit their frailty and wrongdoing:

    For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.Luke 2:11

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @showmethereal
  7. I can see him now: Rebel Jesus, sword on his hip, a whip in one hand and a rice bowl in the other. An austere man, Jesus does not reap what he sows, because he sows nothing. So must we give him food. He says he has come to send fire upon the Pharisees and Saduccees, to bring not peace, but a sword. He is the King in rebellion against his own people! He instructs them on how best to destroy themselves. He says to resist not your enemy, turn the other cheek, and fear not killers of the body. He says forsake your family for a new one. He says give your last shekel to the Temple before the Son of Man comes to burn it down. He says forget about tomorrow, because you can take up your cross and follow him to Heaven today.

    The rebel king! He labors on the sabbath and eats what he will. He bids the Jews to love foreigners, to abide those “born eunuch”, to spare the adultress, and suspend judgment of other people altogether. He says to become like a wild animal or a child. Like Paul, he speaks of love to deceive simpletons and women.

    But he is there for one reason only: to augur the destruction of the Temple and the desolation of Jerusalem by Titus, to herald a new age in which the western empire will assume the old covenants with YHWH.

  8. Chris Moore says: • Website
    @Felix Grossman

    Moses killed a lot of Hebe grifters. Jesus said Hebe grifters were of their father, the Devil. (Both would be described by the Hebe-Yid grifters of today as “anti-Semites.”)

    One of the unwritten laws of Moses is to summarily dispense of Hebe grifters. Jesus advocated a more moderate approach, and the Hebe grifters had him killed. Jesus said he would be proven King of the Jews in death, and that Jerusalem would fall because decayed and rotten ((Jewry)) abandoned Jesus and went along with the corrupt Hebe grifter establishment.

    Do the math.

  9. The synoptic gospels are basically a criticism of wealth and a championing of the poor and the oppressed. That’s it.

    The overwhelming majority of things Jesus said in the synoptic gospels concern criticizing wealth and championing the poor and the oppressed. All the poor and oppressed.

    That’s what Christianity ought to be about. Opposing the rich and feeding the poor.

    Somehow they missed that part. The biggest part. Most of it.

    • Agree: Commentator Mike, Iris
    • Disagree: Rich
    • Replies: @Franz
    , @RockaBoatus
  10. “In the Kingdom of God, it is not the rich who are favored, but the destitute.”

    Get it straight, all you Elon Musk worshipers, all you bootstrappers (it is impossible to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps), all you “freemarket”eers (there is no free market-it’s all crooked). All you who spit on the bum in the gutter.

    God spits on you.

    • Troll: Eric Novak
  11. IronForge says:

    Jesusneverexisted-dot-com

    A 4thCE Cult Sponsored by Constantine – to repay Chrestus Cultists who supported him.

    Cults if Dionysus, Mithras, Dagon, and the Jewish Religion were Hijacked. Judaism had the Sumerian Creation Lore Base, a History, Prophecy, a Messiah, and an An Afterlife Inferred.

    • Agree: RoatanBill
    • Troll: R.G. Camara
  12. RobinG says:
    @Jack McArthur

    No, the author is definitely not that person. (It’s a good idea to check the bio under the article, when there is one.)

    • Replies: @Jack McArthur
  13. Franz says:

    “The Christians wish to replace our beautiful legends with the police record of a reforming Jewish rabbi.”

    — Gore Vidal, Julian, 1964

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
  14. Once upon uh time, inna far away hood……

    De Night Befoe Cremma 

    [MORE]

    Wuz de night befoe Cremma an all ovah da hood
    Er body wuz sleepin, dey wuz sleepin good
    We hung up r stockin and hope like da hek
    Dat ole Sanna Claw goan bring da welfare check

    All de family wuz lay in dey beds
    Wif Funderbert wine danc’n in dey heads
    I’d passed out on de flow right next to Ma
    When I hear such a fuss I tink it wuz de law

    I looked frew da bars dat covered ma doe
    Spectin da sheriff wif a warrant to show
    And what I seen den made me say “Look at Dat”
    Dey wuz a huge wallamelon pulled by sum wharf rats

    All ober de worl Sanna Claw be white
    But he look like us bros come dis Cremma night
    Fastah dan a poleeze car da homeboy he came
    He hollah at dem wharf rats, he call dem by name

    On Leroy, On Roosevelt, Jonterious Lee,
    On Willy and Malcolm – dats a site ta see!
    He landed dat melon out dere in da street
    I newz fo sure wen I smelz his feet

    He didn’t come down no chimley
    He picked de lock on ma doe
    An I says to myself
    “Sheett! He dun dis befoe!”

    He hat dis big bag fulla presents I spec
    Wif Air Jordans and Golt to wear ’round ma neck
    But he lef no good presents, jus stoled all my shit
    Got ma drugs and ma guns and ma Burglar Kit

    Wif ma stuff in dat bag out da winda he flew
    I woulda chaste him but he took ma knife too!
    He hop in dat melon and whooped out a switch
    He were gone in one second – dat fat summa bitch!

    Next year I be hopin a white Sanna we get
    Cuz da black Sanna Claw – he ain’t wurf a shit. 

    Mari Cremma eberry one

    (C) CQ – da plain white rappa

    • LOL: nokangaroos, roonaldo
    • Replies: @Spender_CGB
    , @Stonehands
  15. jsinton says:

    Rubbish. Jesus was very careful not to be a political or social revolutionary. His message was of spiritual renewal and how you got it. Your message is dangerous and blasphemous. That’s how we get a Pope who only seems to care about social revolution, allowing abortionists and gay priests, and forgetting the role of the church is for the teaching the spirit to ascend to heaven.

  16. In the icon image, is Jesus holding a Go board?

    • Replies: @Hyper Bole
  17. @Franz

    lol. Gore Vidal was a far overrated writer, as your quote demonstrates.

    • Replies: @ivan
  18. It’s always amusing how the Jesus articles bring out the hasbara, anti-Christians, and atheiskult members who try to deny He even existed.

    Man, you liars will use the thinnest of reeds to try to deny that even the basic story – a 1st-Century rabbi pissed off the local Jewish leaders enough to get them to con the Romans into offing Him- could ever happen!

    Almost like you’re so invested in denying Jesus with lies, no matter how low-IQ and stupid you sound when you do it. Hmm, I wonder why…..

  19. The media distorted parts of Jesus’ message right from the start.

    This is true, but after some reflection the Author will come to realize the early “Christians” had no choice at all. Jesus was indeed a rebel, and dedicated to freeing his precious and holy Land. Rome was thoroughly pissed off after the first Jewish Revolt, and converts to Paul’s version of ‘Jesus’ did everything possible to distinguish themselves from the Jews.

    Jesus truly did believe he was the Jewish Messiah, and I’m darned sure he’d be horrified to learn that Paul and his kind turned him into a “Christian” Messiah.

    Most folks who got their Christianity from what they were taught in early Sunday School won’t have bothered to ever really examine the first four Gospels in a modern and trustworthy translation. If and when they do that, they’re going to discover some mighty strange things were happening that the Sunday School Teacher never bothered to mention. At some point they’ll start looking for more professional guides – scholars who have spent lifetimes examining the issues involved.

    S. G. F. Brandon (Samuel George Frederick) lived from 1907 to 1971. His 1967 “Jesus and the Zealots” puts the Gospel puzzle pieces together in an utterly convincing way for people who don’t have closed minds.

    https://www.bookfinder.com/search/?full=on&ac=sl&st=sl&qi=BdJPFojIvJLJNAZI,eVo2to6Vsc_1497963026_1:2:1

    Yikes, but it’s now quite expensive!

    Fortunately the Internet Archive has 4 copies which can be ‘borrowed’ and read online.

    https://archive.org/search.php?query=brandon%20jesus%20and%20the%20zealots

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  20. Dumbo says:

    “By their fruits you shall know them”.

    Funny, Mr. Roth is a Jewish leftist.

    I haven’t read the article and I am not sure what it says, but I can guess. Why do Jews and leftists hate Jesus, or want to transform him into some kind of commie?

    Recently I received corporate emails wishing “Happy Holidays”, “Happy Season” or “Happy New Year”. One even had the outline of a Christmas tree, but said only “Happy New Year”. Not one said “Merry Christmas”.

    They say that this is not to offend our growingly diverse population, but who is offended by Christmas?

    Muslims accept Jesus, even if a heretical way. Buddhists also seem to like him. The Japanese love Christmas, even not being Christians. Indians? I have no idea, but they don’t seem to hate Christmas or Jesus either. Some even entertain a crazy theory that Jesus lived in India.

    The only people who hate Christmas with a passion and appear to have a big problem with Jesus are the Jews. (Ok, maybe also a few dumb neo-nazis, but they are probably Jew agents as well)

    And the reason why corporate cowards don’t wish “Merry Christmas” is because they obey Jews, either out of fear, or because they are owned by Jews anyway.

    Merry Christmas to all, even to Jews.

  21. Franz says:
    @obwandiyag

    The synoptic gospels are basically a criticism of wealth and a championing of the poor and the oppressed. That’s it.

    You might enjoy The Gospel According to St. Matthew by Italian maverick Pier Paolo Pasolini, released in 1964. The same year Vidal wrote Julian. There was a major shift to alternative religion that started at about that time, and it’s interesting how it played out. Vidal saw the Church Councils as the politburo that still moves much of the West. Pasolini, on the other hand, felt Jesus was the original socialist. Both are interesting and thought-provoking takes on what happened back then.

    According to IMBd, “,,,Pasolini shows Christ as a Marxist avant-la-lettre and therefore uses half of the text of Matthew.”

    Just up the road was The Passover Plot and, of course, Jesus Christ Superstar.

  22. Anne Lid says:
    @Felix Grossman

    Matthew tells you the genealogy of Joseph, Luke tells you the genealogy of Mary (but does not name her, instead names Joseph, son(-in-law) of Heli. Both Mary and Joseph were descended from David. The time when the Messiah had to appear was foretold by David.

    God sent you the Messiah. You may want a different Messiah, but God sent you not who you wanted, but who He approved of.

    • Replies: @Anne Lid
    , @ivan
  23. As an Aryan man of Aryan lineage, with Aryan children and grandchild (hopefully more to come!), I will not worship any of the following: a) Yehoshuah, a Semitic Hebrew ne’er-do-well (criminal? wizard?) who was the offspring a slut/whore; b) Yehoshuah, a Semitic hippie walking around the Levant who was the offspring of a slut/whore; c) some long forgotten Khazar king who was executed in the ritual regicide practiced by Khazars and other Turko-Mongolic tribes of the Eurasian Steppe (lands once roamed by Aryan tribes before being displaced); d) some legend turned religion based on an amalgamation of Semitic, Hamitic, and Anatolian myths, legends, and worship of long dead hero-ancestors that was structured for imperial propaganda reasons by Byzantine politicos and royalty/nobility.

    I especially appreciate, though, the inclusion of an Aryan element. The three wise-men from Parthia representing the established Aryan faith of the region, Zoroastrianism, showing up with gifts. I guess that was to show some connection to the established largest organized faith of the day, but, ultimately, I still don’t like the idea of considering a non-Aryan human, who could very well have been a scummy Semite or Turk/Mongol dude, as God incarnate in the flesh.

    I’ll stick to our ways. We have several different forms of faith and I am proudly an “Indo-European monotheist” (as it is called in the Academy today) but I enjoy and adore our other paths too. I have used “Odinism” and “Mithraism”, and the Greek gods to save a few white/Latin/Persian boys from the wrong path. The more intelligent ones really take a liking to Neoplatonism, and reading Plotinus seems to work wonders on some brilliant young minds, for others, the more troubled minds, it is Stoicism and Buddhism. We have such a rich panoply in the Aryan fold, we should stick to it.

  24. @RobinG

    Thanks/noted. He does write like a Jew with the revolutionary spirit (cf. E. Michael Jones) which is like a form of displaced religion in which there is no acknowledgment of personal sin and salvation is not for the individual in heaven but only the group survival on earth. That isn’t Christianity but modern Judaism.

  25. anonymous[204] • Disclaimer says:

    May the blessings of the Almighty One be upon the blessed Christ, and the blessed prophets who came before him, and after him!!

    A celebration of such a man, is fine, except this essay does so by according him Divinity… which is pagan polytheist heresy.

    I am not sure, if at all, the white race (whence Christendom and true love for Christ flourished) will ever see the error of their pagan ways. If they don’t, it appears their glory days will be limited to their existence in this world.

    We muslims love him dearly, in a manner he will so approve.

    • Thanks: Arthur MacBride
    • Troll: ivan
  26. @CelestiaQuesta

    That was brilliant!! A hat tip to you, and a Merry Christmas!

    • Thanks: CelestiaQuesta
    • Replies: @Fart Blossom
  27. @jsinton

    Nothing personal, but on that I think you’re dead wrong: Jesus deliberately engaged in political theater and other acts fully intended to convey the messages I describe. It’s too much to deal with in detail here, but I think if you care to read The Last Week, a recent book by Borg and Crossan that describes each of the days of that week in some detail, you’ll almost have to see the merit of my message. Just as one example: I’ve always been puzzled by Jesus’ apparently triumphal entry into Jerusalem at the outset of what has become Holy Week (the last week of his life). But Borg and Crossan report that that entry was a sort of counter-demonstration: the Roman governor was entering the city from the opposite direction, proclaiming the dominance of Rome, while Jesus’ entry proclaims the Kingdom of God. But don’t take my word for it, read the book, or at least the first few chapters, although as I continued to read the incidents reported — by Mark, as interpreted or explained by the book’s authors — had a cumulative weight that was absolutely persuasive.

  28. Except Jesus was not an ethnic Jew, although he lived in an area of Jewish and Greek influence.

    Read Jacob Elon Conner’s book Christ Was Not A Jew: An Epistle to the Gentiles – the author was a New York Jew.

    Jesus was a Galilean and of a different ethnic group – Gentiles or Scythians. The Scythians from the area to the north near Russia made a settlement in Galilee called Scythopolis.

    It is a Christian heresy to believe Christ was a Jew. It is called Ebiontism: that Jesus was a mortal human being and that Christians should follow the Jewish Law. Modern day Ebionite heretics are similar to Nazarenes.

    The Talmud specifically forbids Jews from marrying Galileans.

    The Jewish-Roman historian Josephus described Galileans: “It is a sturdy race and have developed a fervid patriotism and nationalistic spirit – a hill people, lovers of liberty and ready defenders of their homes”.

    The Gospels state several times that no Messiah or Prophet ever came out of Galilee.

    The Talmud describes Galileans as “anxious for honor, not money; the opposite was true for Jews”.

    The Roman Emperor Julian wrote a book “Against the Galileans” (not against the Jews).

    The Jewish Prophet Isaiah wrote as a Jew living in Jerusalem at the time of “Galilee of the Gentiles”.

    The word Gentile is used 123 times in the King James Version of the Bible.
    A question existed among the disciples whether receiving the Holy Spirit through proselytization would be restricted to Israelites or whether it would include the gentiles as in Acts 10:34–47:

    And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God”.

    Within a few centuries, some Christians used the word “gentiles” to mean non-Christians. The alternative pagan was felt to be less elegant.

    Sorry, Jesus was not some Marxist renegade or revolutionary for the proletariat.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  29. Humans clearly don’t “need Jesus” to flourish. Christians could have left well enough along by interpreting Jesus as a kind of dumb man’s smart person, like the Jordan Peterson of his time, who taught moral principles in a way that the unenlightenable common people could understand. Early modern philosophers, like Spinoza and Locke, tried in an arguably dishonest way to rebrand Jesus along these lines as part of their project to reform traditional Christian beliefs and make them less damaging.

    Instead the Christians had to turn Jesus into the judge of the dead in the afterlife, which makes him sound like Pinhead in those dumb Hellraiser movies. Without this childish scary nonsense, Jesus as a personality really doesn’t have much to commend it.

  30. @R.G. Camara

    The given Jesus story makes no sense. The Romans faced no urgency in executing Jesus just to comply with Jewish superstitions about getting it over with by the start of the sabbath. One, Jewish beliefs didn’t bind them, and they ran the country. And two, if they had to go along with these beliefs for political reasons, they could simply have kept Jesus in prison over the sabbath, then nailed him up bright and early Sunday morning, when they have a block of non-taboo days ahead of them to do a proper crucifixion, which required keeping the body on the cross until it began to decompose.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    , @R.G. Camara
  31. – The author (like M. Hudson btw) is right in his observation that Jesus
    was the rebellion against Hillel and the pharisees
    (=”moneylenders”, =”rabbinical Judaism”) and that´s the reason (((they)))
    hate Him so (-> Lk 11:37-54, Mt 23:1-39, Mk 12:35-40, Lk 20:45-47).
    It means at the very minimum He was a Prophet s.s. ; it also means
    (counter to the followers of Mahom PBUH) that the need for Prophets
    is perpetual and open-ended.
    (from here it also could be argued He was the Abd al-Wahhab of Jewry
    and today´s “Jews” are heretics 😛 , further that the Protestants have returned
    to the same vomit )

    (Disclaimer: I was raised Catholic Worker – Mass in private homes or on mountains,
    priests with sleeves rolled up, real bread and wine, all very much as in Acts except
    speaking in tongues is frowned upon; if Christianity is to have an agreeable future
    this is it. Problem is the doctrine is a wee bit watery and delimitation from Marxist
    aberrations is difficult.)

    Anyways Merry Christmas to all! (Oops. I meant “Hail Yule” 😀 )

  32. Thomasina says:
    @R.G. Camara

    “Hmm, I wonder why…..”

    Because Christianity is a direct threat to capitalism – or at least the free-for-all crony capitalism we have today. The world elite are looting like there’s no tomorrow…because they can. They threw out religion in favor of science, but, as Jordon Peterson says, science doesn’t provide values.

    I totally agree with your first sentence. They do come out of the woodwork quickly, don’t they?

    • Agree: R.G. Camara
    • Replies: @GomezAdddams
  33. dearieme says:

    Jesus – if he existed, which I incline to think he might well have done – grew up in Galilee at a time when it was a client kingdom; it wasn’t part of the Roman Empire, unlike Judea.

    So all the anti-Roman malarkey deserves a good loud “C’m on, man!”

  34. mcohen says:

    anyone know where jesus4 is buried.there are a few biblical figures who have tombs but not jesus.in fact where are any of the new testament characters buried.

    know what I mean.

  35. Mr Anatta says:

    In the image above behind Jesus is a depiction of a developing psychadelic mushroom cap(Soma of the Rig Veda) and Jesus, just like Krisnna and Buddha and Abraham and Mohammed and all the Avatar crew of old were all tripping their fucking tits off because they had little else to do without being able to relentlessly tweet their fellow twot chums on twatter and they were around far too early to worship the praying mantis God like so many do today while holding their very un smart phones as they walk along whilst in a deeper than deep sleep.

    ‘The sacred mushroom and the cross’

    John Allegro.

    But dont believe a word I say as I am nothing more than a vibration that simply does not exist and anyway I have watched one flew over the cuckoos nest far too many times with my heavily sedated friends and it is making us all go a little bonkers quite frankly and they don’t even let us watch it come full moon when the projector is switched off for a few nights and we all get put in straight jackets and have to stay in our rooms.

  36. @Idiocrates

    That’s a good one, Idiocrates

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  37. Anonymous[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @gay troll

    “Who do men say I am?” Actually, there is a biography of Jesus that predates the Gospels in the Dead Sea Scrolls and in the Talmud. See the “Second Coming of the Judeo-Zoroastrian Jesus of the Dead Sea Scrolls.”

  38. Vinnie O says:
    @Felix Grossman

    David is a mythical character. There is no evidence, except for Jewish writings, that any such person existed. Assuming that there WAS some guy amongst the Jews called “David”, he was never a “king”.

    The Hebrews were a VERY obscure gang of sheep herders. They never built any cities worth mentioning, and the Greeks didn’t see ANYTHING up-country even worth VISITING on their campaign to conquer Egypt. As near as I can tell, the Hebrews ONLY got recognized by the civilized countries AFTER Christianity caught on.

    That is, Christianity REQUIRED there to be a big, famous Jewish country in order to provide CHRISTIANITY with some sort of pedigree.

    But check Josephus’s “The Jewish War” (a local rebellion against the Roman occupation). The ONLY mention of “Christians” in the book is a known bit of fakery inserted centuries after the original book was written.

  39. @R.G. Camara

    We, the atheists, know that your delusional belief system is dangerous to us all. Believing in the nonsense of any religion and some supreme being is the gateway drug to believing in political leaders and the idiocy of voting for your next warden.

    The belief in the hereafter also allows for the current crop of “leaders” to never get what’s coming to them because you believe, without any proof, that they will be dealt with in heaven, hell or some other fairy tale place.

    It’s you, the devoutly religious, that are the primary problem on the planet. Which religion, doesn’t matter since they’re all based on myth. However, the christians are in a class by themselves as the most blood thirsty cretins on the planet since they provide the majority on the ground power for the US war machine.

    You should be deeply ashamed of yourself.

    • LOL: R.G. Camara
    • Troll: Vinnyvette
  40. @mcohen

    anyone know where jesus4 is buried.

    In Srinagar; everybody knows that after the Resurrection He went there to preach.
    You can visit His tomb and the temple of Swami Shankara in one day.
    Why do you think the Candala are fighting over this particular valley since
    independence? The most spectacular scenery and the most beautiful women
    on the subcontinent it ain´t.

  41. Seraphim says:

    Indeed the article is a pile of BS. And many comments ad their own excretions to the pile. This kind of denunciation of ‘distortions of true Christianity’ which invariably appear around Christmas of Easter, stinks to high heavens.

  42. @Thomasina

    I like to read the Greek Doctor of Medicine —-Luke. He has his own Gospel and wrote Acts. When you realize the Bible is the Inspired word of God and that it is the Authority –some interesting events arise while reading the other Book Luke penned —Acts. Read Acts 4:35 and then hop over to 11:29 and there it is —the community is to have distribution based on need and contribution according to ability. The very same conditions appear in Karl Marx’s conclusion of the Communist Manifesto ” From each according to his ability and to each according to his needs”— Agreed. Now go back and read Acts 5 and it is about a couple who wanted to join the Christian community–sold their property but retained part of the sale for themselves ( as a good capitalist adhering to Adam Smith’s “Invisible Hand” but they were both struck dead —by retaining the money but more importantly Lying about it to the Holy Spirit.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
  43. @mcohen

    Jesus resurrected Easter morning Sunday and remained with his apostles for anther 40 then ascended to Heaven–His Body is not here.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  44. Jesus was not a champion of social justice. It is a mistake to project twenty-first century American cultural values onto first century Palestine. The concepts of personal agency, individual freedom and socio-political equality, as we know them in America today, are innovations of the eighteenth century European Enlightenment and contact with North American indigenous tribes.

    The Gospels record that Roman authorities harmed none of Jesus’ supposed followers. This is unequivocal evidence that Jesus could not have been the leader of any kind of a movement. Rome maintained a heavy armed presence in Judaea not for plunder – it had barely a subsistence economy – but because of its strategic location on the overland corridor to the immense riches of Africa and Asia, and as a buffer state to Rome’s most dangerous military rival, the aggressive Parthian Empire to the northeast. In Jesus’ time, the peasantry was more heavily taxed by the luxury-loving Temple priesthood than by the Romans. Despite the myth of eternal discrimination, before the revolt of 66 CE, Jews enjoyed special concessions and privileges granted to no other ethnic group in the empire.

    Jesus stated specifically that he came only for “the lost sheep of the house of Israel” to prepare the nation for the end of days, which he expected to take place “before this generation has passed away.” Later followers, who knew of him only through hearsay (and in Saint Paul’s case, a dramatic hallucination induced by his evident psychosis), would falsely allege the universality of Jesus’ mission. The so-called lost sheep Jesus came to save were those liberal Jews who had rejected the narrow-minded ethnocentrism of second temple period Judaism and embraced the tolerant values of the vibrant multiethnic Mediterranean world to which the culture had been introduced by Alexander the Great nearly four centuries earlier.

    There are reasons why the religion named after Jesus has animated generations of nationalists and fundamentalists, and more than a few mentally ill people.

    • Replies: @Vinnyvette
    , @Wokechoke
  45. Anne Lid says:
    @Anne Lid

    Upps, lack of coffee! Of course I meant the time of the Messiah’s birth was foretold by Daniel (not David!). So sorry. Daniel 9:25:
    “Know thou therefore, and take notice: that from the going forth of the word, to build up Jerusalem again, unto Christ the prince, there shall be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks: and the street shall be built again, and the walls in straitness of times.”

  46. LostBoy says:

    Roth? … Let’s see … Any relation to Philip?

  47. Z-man says:
    @Chris Moore

    Again, Jesus, the Galilean, is The Son of God.
    Didn’t read most of that tripe above by ‘Roth’.

  48. @jsinton

    Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
    Matthew 10:34

    • Replies: @jsinton
  49. Excellent article with too many superb points to comment on until this.:

    …That’s what is so evil about the current attacks on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and the safety net generally, such as it still is.

    I could be wrong, but I do not see where Jesus ever depended on any institution to implement support of the common good. The whole movement depended, and still does depend on, individuals voluntarily taking responsibility for each other, I think. It should be easy to see that once a person farms that type of work out to others that he becomes dependent on an institution and the history of institutions is that they are relatively easy prey for control by the least worthy among us.

    Institutions eventually become uncontrollable machines that work contrary to the common good.

    Forget about farming out acts of charity to unaccountable organizations. Life is a do-it-yourself deal, and it’s called livin, and he author would seem to agree, writing,

    … the notion that we should care about and for one another, the very idea that we have interests in common that we can and should address collectively…

    But then illogically comes to the conclusion that we should do the work not collectively, but forcibly, i.e., through “government,”

    The real animus behind these attacks is hostility to the idea of the common good through government …

    Neither government nor large corporations (the de facto owners of “government”) give a rip about the common good, but only exist to exploit the common good, and “government” is a false messiah if not a totally false idol and that goes double for large institutions. Christians should be among the first to recognize this.

    • Agree: Vinnyvette
    • Thanks: Emerging Majority
    • Replies: @Ed Case
  50. Rich says:
    @Robert Roth

    “Give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s.” Jesus heals the Roman Centurion’s servant, he dines with the wealthy Joseph of Arimathea. Jesus never calls on the forming of a government to heal society’s ills, He calls on individuals to do what they can to help the poor. He tells Pilate that His Kingdom is “not of this world.” Jesus calls on the repentance from individual sins of the leper, the lame and the blind. He heals the possessed individual, not the possessed society. He doesn’t call on an army of Angels to overthrow the Romans or the Pharisees, He accepts his fate. He goes so far as to heal the soldier whose ear Peter cuts off. Jesus’ entry into Jerusalem on an ass is the fulfillment of scripture, not a call for social revolution. Jesus preached the “the poor will be with you always”, no Bolshevik, this Christ. Social Security, Medicaid, SNAP and Section 8 housing aren’t mentioned anywhere in the Gospels. We have to repent as individuals, turn away from sin as individuals and this will result in us doing good as individuals. We are not to compel others to feed the poor or clothe the naked. As socialists pretend to do, while turning everyone into serfs while a few sleep in palaces.

    John Dominic Crossan is an atheist, probably not the best person to turn to when looking for salvation through the risen Christ.

  51. “At this point, the very idea of the common good is under relentless attack. That’s what is so evil about the current attacks on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and the safety net generally, such as it still is. The real animus behind these attacks is hostility to the idea of the common good, the notion that we should care about and for one another, the very idea that we have interests in common that we can and should address collectively, through government as well as other forms of social organization. ”

    I know a man, a former federal government employee enjoying his fat federal pension, who pisses and moans constantly about how terrible it is that Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid exist at all, and he is hoping this plannedemic will bankrupt the country sufficiently to end these programs for eternity. He never mentions that he never contributed a dime to his pension (unlike folks like me, who maxxed out their SSI contributions every year as a practicing attorney, and thus have actually personally funded my share of the SSI pie), as it was simply part of his ‘benefits package’.

    I asked him one day and he openly acknowledged that his attitude was in part motivated by his desire to insure the long term survival of his own federal pension, and in part that he simply believes these people getting SSI, etc, are freeloaders (unlike him, apparently), and he would like to see them in destitution, where they really belong. We’re talking psychopathic levels of selfishness and egoism, bordering on social sadism. I fear this attitude is more common than most of us would care to imagine (or some would care to admit to.)

    He’s a huge Trumper, btw…….. and a ‘Christian’.

    (Just another whacked-out CINO, if you ask me…….)

    • Thanks: Emerging Majority
    • Replies: @Anon
  52. @gay troll

    Historical records are not the ideal sources to go to, especially for the rumpus Jesus caused. Look at the spectacle instead, the shrieks, the hubbub, the churches, the Orders, the impacts upon the world.

    Mani, no less, considered himself part of a holy triumvirate, along with Jesus and Zoroaster, and behold what they have done to Mani’s reputation (google it or, better, read about it in the 11th Britannica). What sort of history do we have, after all, where a man like Mani has been erased? And I could go on and on with curiosities like that, for quite a while.

    History can indeed be bunkish, especially in cases like these, where materialists wield the pen. Consider the Sanhedrin, and the charges of blasphemy, and what those might actually have entailed. How likely would it have been, in the wake of the Resurrection, that efforts not be taken to fabricate about ramifications.

    Those who have gone to so much trouble to carve out narratives and spew propaganda, left many fossils undestroyed – fossils which give the lie to many of the story lines. Turning over rocks, therefore, is recommended, as a way to forge slightly eccentric weltanschauungs, a bit outside the molds. I have spent some time, for example, with maps of the ancient world circa 700 BC – 400 AD and studying and comparing the many religions (early Christianity, Platonism, Jewish Alexandrians, Buddhism, Syrian Gnosticism, and the ideas of the Persians, etc.) and Jesus appears much more at home in the middle of that era (google about it or, better, read about it in the 11th Britannica, along with a couple books from Amazon). Better food for better thought, I think.

    And the Enlightenment – let’s just call it that – is looking quite a bit dimmer.

    • Replies: @Nancy
    , @Kapyong
  53. “Jesus was not preoccupied with individual “sin” but with systemic injustice, in opposition to the commercializing empire of his time.”

    No wonder the Jew has been pissed at the good old boy for for so long and comforts himself with Chinese food every Christmas.

  54. TGD says:
    @Dumbo

    Merry Christmas to all, even to Jews.

    “Every idiot who goes about with ‘Merry Christmas’ on his lips, should be boiled with his own pudding, and buried with a stake of holly through his heart.” Ebenezer Scrooge

    I say to all, Have a Cool Yule. (The real holiday.)

    The “Have a Cool Yule” expression is taken from a song by the late, great Steve Allen.

    • Replies: @Dumbo
  55. gotmituns says:

    The celebration of Christmas is just the Christian take on the Nordic winter solstice.

    • Replies: @Dumbo
  56. @Robert Roth

    But Borg and Crossan report that that entry was a sort of counter-demonstration: the Roman governor was entering the city from the opposite direction, proclaiming the dominance of Rome, while Jesus’ entry proclaims the Kingdom of God.

    Thank you, thank you and thank you.
    Wasn’t aware of this. but have always considered Jesus as great Jewish Patriot, Nationalist and Revolutionary who wanted FREEDOM for His people from Roman occupier.

  57. @Observator

    Plenty of atheist whack jobs like Stalin and Lenin and especially Carl Max have wreaked havoc on humanity. Whacko fundamentalists come in all stripes!
    I’ll take my chances with the much more benign “Christian” nut cases than the virulent atheistic, Marxist, totalitarian type such as yourself.
    A pox on your house!

    • Agree: Fart Blossom
  58. @gay troll

    Who cares about such new world order fact checking historical BS that thus excuses land rent rapists and other scoundrels of the commercial classes and their psychophantic professionals…

    Indeed Robert Roth’s essay is a breath of fresh air, in reminding people of the gospel of recognition of the other as one’s self, of kind favors, of innate healing within us all over the principalities of fear, greed and avarice that seeks to deny the reality that all humans are made in the image of God…

    Relative to political policy, note that II Timothy 2, 6 & 7 is the foundation for economic prosperity for all, that the Farmer should given the ‘first fruits’ which in modern parlance is the law 7 USC Sec 602 Parity for Agriculture, policy prevented public and private debt enslavement, because paying those who produce the wealth that keeps us fed has dividends for all, and is the way to stop depression due to unplayable debt….

    The need for social safety net is the consequence of putting money before wealth, of stealing our daily bread as matter of policy, rather than of paying those who create the wealth their due, of creating a caste system that is exemplified by the caste system legal system that institutionalizes crime; frauds and deceit as the norm of this world to then hypothesize fake heavens be they worldly temptations or otherwise.

    • Thanks: Joe Levantine
    • Replies: @Fart Blossom
  59. Blodgie says:

    Hard to imagine a more destructive force in white men’s lives than Christianity.

    It teaches them to lose. To be weak. To vacillate. To do as you’re told. To be an implement for the needs of others.

    It is deeply sick.

  60. jsinton says:
    @Robert Roth

    “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s but render unto God that which is God’s” said Jesus when asked what to do about the Romans. The meaning is clear. A Christian’s rewards are in heaven. Leave the earthly world to take care of itself. You’re wrong.

    • Agree: Z-man, Rich
    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Chris Moore
  61. gregor says:
    @gay troll

    Furthermore, although Mark is the first biography of Christ, it is based on the earlier writings of Paul, who described Christ without ever mentioning his biography. Paul’s Christ is a celestial being temporarily made mortal. He is not a teacher, or wise man, or healer. He does not have human parents and was not born in a manger. He was not executed on a cross; he was not executed by Romans. He was not witnessed by any multitude. Paul says he learned about Jesus from the Jewish Bible.

    Most of what you say is highly questionable and some of it is completely wrong.

    “But when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 in order to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as children.” (Gal 4:4-5)

    “Do we not have the right to be accompanied by a believing wife, as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?” (1 Cor 9:5)

    “For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took a loaf of bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, ‘This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.’ ” (1 Cor 11:23-34)

    “For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and him crucified.” (1 Cor 2:2)

  62. @gay troll

    Some points:

    1. ‘…all the other Gospels are derived from [Mark].’ This is not true. John does not use Mark.

    2. Q predates Mark, and is an independent source used by both Matthew and Luke.

    3. The Coptic Gospel of Thomas contains independent traditions not found in any of the canonical gospels which may have some evidentiary value.

    4. Mark is not based on Paul’s writings. They wrote independently of one another.

    5. One cannot be born in a manger. A manger is a trough where an animal feeds or takes water.

    6. The core of the Testimonium Flavianum may well be real. In any case, there is, by the standards of the ancient world, quite convincing evidence that Jesus existed and was an apocalyptic Jewish prophet executed as a troublemaker by the Romans and local Jewish authorities.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  63. @gay troll

    If you want to argue for a historical Jesus…

    Why bother either way?

    Doing so misses the point that it’s an eternal struggle not only between individuals, but classes and other groups, assemblies, tribes, and what not. In fact, there have always been “Jesuses” everywhere and there shall continue to be, and “we” mock, torture, and kill him or her or them every day while waiting for some messiah to deliver our precious little selves from the threats both du jour and eternal, real and imaginary, and more, I think.

    Anyway, Merry Christmas despite it all!

    • Agree: Mustapha Mond
    • Replies: @Nancy
  64. The author begins by dismissing the Gospel as some kind of cover up. But since the Gospel is the only biographical resource we have, the author is nonetheless forced to rely on the Gospel as a basis or framework. He is left in the position of “seeing through” the Gospel, i.e. seeing past the fiction to focus on the facts. The futility of this approach should be obvious. First you must decide whether or not Jesus Christ performed supernatural feats. This is, after all, the basis of Christ’s fame, and there would be no Gospel without it. But secular historicists must throw away the “magic” and with it the entire basis of the mythology.

    You can’t use Luke or Matthew to corroborate Mark because they are obviously, in part copied from each other. This proves they are not independent testimonies. You can’t use John either, for the opposite reason: in changes and elongates Christ’s ministry significantly. And then you look outside the Bible for corroboration of Christ’s life and you find less than nothing, you find childish forgery like the Flavian Testimony. And then you look at Paul and realize that he is not even talking about someone who was born on Earth.

    This makes about as much goddamn sense as searching for the historical Harry Potter. Yes, I can take the book, treat it as a historical conspiracy, strip out all the magic and cherry-pick other events that conform to my thesis. But that would make me a moron.

  65. jsinton says:
    @Commentator Mike

    You take the word “sword” to the literal meaning. Also you take the poorly translated usage of the word “peace” literally. You need to research the meaning more deeply.

  66. @Abdul Alhazred

    I like this!

    The need for social safety net is the consequence of putting money before wealth, of stealing our daily bread as matter of policy, rather than of paying those who create the wealth their due, of creating a caste system that is exemplified by the caste system legal system that institutionalizes crime; frauds and deceit as the norm of this world to then hypothesize fake heavens be they worldly temptations or otherwise.

    Thank you.

    • Replies: @Abdul Alhazred
  67. @Jack McArthur

    I don’t know what E. Michael Jones is on about but Jesus was the greatest revolutionary in every sense, social included, but especially the spiritual and religious sense, who sacrificed himself for his ideas, beliefs and ideals. The problem is that the churches have killed off the original Christian revolutionary spirit and made their flocks accept slavery, serfdom and wage slavery, and now preach subservience to exploiters, oppressors, liars and deceivers, and have betrayed the word of God which stood for truth and justice.

    Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the world. No, I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. I came to set sons against their fathers, daughters against their mothers, daughters-in-law against mothers-in-law; your worst enemies will be the members of your own family.

    Those who love their father or mother more than me are not fit to be my disciples; those who love their sons and daughters more than me are not fit to be my disciples. Those who do not take up the cross and follow in my steps are not fit to be my disciples. Those who try to gain their own life will lose it; but those who lose their life for my sake will gain it.

    Jesus Christ as quoted by Matthew 10:34-40 in the Good New Bible

  68. Blodgie says:
    @RoatanBill

    I’ve never understood how Christians can relish in the slaughter of US wars or sacrifice the blood and souls of their own children to a corrupt US government.

    But then again, maybe I do understand.

    Abstractions.

    Christianity is based on inscrutable abstractions.

    And if you want young men to agree to have their balls exploded and limbs severed in war, what do you hit them with?

    Abstractions.

    Valor. Duty. Pride. Honor. Sacrifice.

    No one has any idea what any of those words mean because they have no meaning. But goddamn it, they sound like they should mean something so everyone just plays along.

    So Christianity primes the cannon fodder to be the implements of a U.S. War Machine.

    The fools!

    • Agree: RoatanBill
    • Replies: @Emerging Majority
  69. Anon[111] • Disclaimer says:
    @jsinton

    Your attitude is a cop out. It also doesn’t apply when Christians are in the majority and control the levers of power as they do in the western world. Do you think you can abuse the earth and the people who live here and look forward to a good place in heaven? Maybe you should study some Buddhism and learn about karma. You can’t behave like a barbarian on Earth and expect a wondrous heavenly reception. Didn’t Jesus say about people like you, “Get away from me I never knew you!”???

  70. Anon[111] • Disclaimer says:

    Thank you Mr. Roth for this wondrously thoughtful and inspiring message. A great gift to all the TUR readers. Shalom!

  71. @Spender_CGB

    I hope he makes one about the fat corporate Stanky Claws and his elves, the politicians, and their “gimmee freebie” rackets as well.

  72. Nat X says:

    Never have believed in yt fairytales.

  73. Anon[334] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rich

    Jesus is all about creating compassionate community. The American globalized imperialistic economic system is all about selfish ruthless cutthroat individualism.

    • Agree: Nancy
  74. Wokechoke says:

    Jesus is a series of very disturbing words on a page. Just as the author intended. The writer knew quite a lot about Jews but appeared to be writing about them from the perceptive of a well experienced outsider. A slightly bitter one at that.

  75. @jsinton

    Jesus was very careful not to be a political or social revolutionary

    Is that why he whipped the moneychangers?

    • Replies: @Rich
  76. Wokechoke says:
    @advancedatheist

    The Jews pushed around Romans. Then the Romans snapped their necks in the end of the 1st century.

    Cicero in Pro Flacco points out how Jews would mob Roman magistrates, just like they mob American judges today. The author of the gospel knew how Jews operate. But probably wasn’t be of them.

  77. @gay troll

    Kikes and faggots, all the same! To the bog and the oven!

  78. @Arthur MacBride

    Probable real birthday is September 11.

    According to internet astrologers?

  79. Wokechoke says:
    @Wayne Lusvardi

    Jews were probably an upper class/caste in that era. The peasants and tradesmen most likely not Jewish. Just like now.

  80. @Rich

    He calls on individuals to do what they can to help the poor.

    Actually, his highest praise is for the woman who gives her last shekel to the treasury. He thinks it is nobler for a poor person to give up their last cent, than for a wealthy person to make a large donation. Jesus doesn’t ask the Jews to help the poor: he asks them to become poor. One can only imagine where the donated wealth of his flock might accrue.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Francis Miville
  81. HT says:

    Thanks for sharing the communist Jew perspective. And these people actually think they are completely justified in enslaving white Christians to push their social justice insanity. Hitler did the best he could to stop it and save us but now he is the one vilified and the Jews run our country.

    • Replies: @Fart Blossom
    , @RockaBoatus
  82. I find this article a perfect fit for DaLimbraw Library which has a series of archived essays, mostly by Michael Hudson – https://crushlimbraw.blogspot.com/search?q=Forgive+them+debts&updated-max=2021-02-08T11:01:00-08:00&max-results=20&start=0&by-date=false&m=1 – that is a list of headnotes from a word search FORGIVE THEM DEBTS.
    What most Churchian pietists miss is the totality of Jesus’s mission – The Kingdom of God!
    The rest of my library includes much more on that subject – almost all written by various authors – and meant for other mentors to take up as an ongoing project for their own circle of contacts.

    • Thanks: Mefobills
  83. Hardrock says: • Website
    @RoatanBill

    Could you provide an example or description of the world you would prefer us to inhabit….is this world described in anything you have written or in any other work of literature you can recommend?

    I am interested in this less dangerous world.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
    , @RoatanBill
  84. anon[353] • Disclaimer says:
    @gay troll

    If your post weren’t given the dignity of being the first comment for this article, it wouldn’t be worth the time and effort needed for a single mouse click. You are like the lurid tabloid magazine placed strategically and offensively at the check-out line: had it not been positioned so intrusively, thrust into the midst of our grocery shopping monotony against our will, most people would just glance at your sensational headlines as a curious sideshow. Knowing you, though, I’m guessing you’ll take that as a compliment, because you are the “gay troll,” and true to form, you live up to your namesake. I’ll respond to this point:

    And if you read Mark, it’s obviously not written as history. It is written as parable. It emphasizes this over and over again. It says that the teachings of heaven MUST be related in parable. It says the word of God is like scattered seed that will only grow in a few places. It says only few will understand the true meaning of the teaching.

    The Bible absolutely claims to be written as history. One only needs to read the first chapter of Luke to understand this:

    Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled[a] among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught

    Here is 2 Peter 1:16:

    For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”[b] 18 We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain

    1 Corinthians 15:

    For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas,[b] and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

    The Bible, whether you like it or not, claims to be a historical, eyewitness account of real events. You don’t have to believe it. But don’t misrepresent what the Bible claims about itself. Furthermore, if it’s not historically true, then it’s not worth believing in, and Christians are to be pitied more than anything. As 1 Corinthians 15:18 says,

    “If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.”

    If the Bible didn’t claim to be real history, then there would be no need to pity those who put their faith in the message.

    You make a lot of other untrue and inaccurate points. Mark is not the source of the Gospels. There is independent material in the writing of Luke and Matthew. How about the whole Book of Acts (which is written by the same author who wrote Luke)!!! You forget the epistles from Paul, Peter, James, etc.

    And Christianity built upon the works of Paul? There is only ONE foundation for the Christian faith, and that is Jesus Christ. Paul, whom you claim to be the foundation of Christian faith, tells us himself (1 Corinthians 3):

    5What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. 7So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. 9For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.

    10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames

    We can quote dozens and dozens of more verses to this end. Thank you, “gay troll,” for giving the opportunity to share the truth. What you meant for evil, God will use for good 🙂

  85. The power of an enduring narrative is that it has something for everyone.

    You want Jesus to be a political revolutionary? Great. You want him to be an inspirational spiritual leader? Done. Mythological figure to worship? Sure. Inspiration for art and entertainment? Inspiration for wars of conquest? Justification for elite hauteur AND consolation for poor folk’s bad luck (self-inflicted or otherwise). No problem.

    And the kneejerk atheists get a lot out of him too — maybe not as much as Christians, even in this largely secular age, but infinitely more than anybody who doesn’t make themselves look silly getting worked up over religious matters.

    It’s a good story. There’s a lot of angles to mine. Give it some deep thought, draw your own conclusions, and maybe even be a better person for it.

    In any reasonable discussion, though, it’s nice to taste at least a little grain of salt, and this article lacks that particular flavor.

  86. @Kratoklastes

    There’s a reason why Pride has been described as the deadliest sin. Seek God in a spirit of absolute humility and you’ll find Him. You won’t regret it.

  87. IronForge says:
    @R.G. Camara

    R.G. Camara:

    Did you even go to check out the Arguments on Jesusneverexisted-dot-com?

    Replace the “-dot-” with a “.”

    The Religion was Authored at Nicea in the 4thCE.

    The FIRST Gospels were part of the FIRST New Testament, which were also part of the FIRST Christian Bible – All Integrated, Published, and Rolled Out as One Complete Entity. There are no Prior Source Documents for the Gospels.

    No One wrote about Jesus in the 1st/2nd CE. No One. Nothing Secular, No Records, Nothing Religious. 1st AD/CE weren’t established until 6thCE by a Monk in the Dark Ages.

    December 25th is the SOLSTICE on the JULIAN Calendar. Dionysus+Mithras have Birth/Death/Sacrifice/Resurrection Events on that Day. So the Xi-Rho/Chrestus/Christ Cult Hijacked the Solstice until Monk Gregory swapped out a new Calendar separating the Solstice and Dec25th – adopted by most of Europe by 1598CE – Fifteen Ninety Eight.

    • Replies: @Peter Rabbit
  88. Dumbo says:
    @TGD

    Merry Christmas, Jew.

  89. Dumbo says:
    @gotmituns

    Not really. It just adapted some elements of it.

    Merry Christmas to all.

  90. Anon[266] • Disclaimer says:
    @Felix Grossman

    You are only telling half the story. Remember when Jesus told the Rich Young ruler to “sell everything you have and give the money to the poor and follow Me?”

  91. @HT

    Yes he did, and look what this flaky goofus said in light of how it all turned out.

    Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilization. Upon it depends our own British life, and the long continuity of our institutions and our Empire…If we can stand up to [Hitler], all Europe may be free and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, “This was their finest hour.”

    Winston Churchill, speech House of Commons, June 18, 1940
    https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/speeches/1940-the-finest-hour/their-finest-hour/

    Hmmm. Perverted science? I wonder if that rings any bells.

    • Agree: HT
  92. @anon

    I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

    Look at what Paul is actually saying here. Paul is saying that he laid down Jesus Christ. Not that he witnessed Christ. That he invented him.

    You say there is independent material in Luke and Matthew, which is true, but there is also material copied directly from Mark. Thus they may be embellished, but they are definitely plagiarized. Of course Luke and John claim to be literal history; yet they are based on the parable of Mark. Obviously the claim to history was a latecomer to the Christian canon.

    As for Paul’s claim that Jesus Christ appeared to Cephas and the apostles and “the 500”, well this only happened after the resurrection, right? Who did Jesus appear to before his death? Mark writes of tens of thousands of witnesses to the mortal Christ. But Paul claims only 500 witnesses to the risen Christ. Obviously Paul and Mark do not corroborate each other.

    If Paul is not the origin of Jesus Christ, why can’t Paul tell us anything about Christ’s ministry on Earth? If Mark is not adapted from Paul, then how has Paul’s written philosophy been turned into Christ’s spoken dialogue? Paul says there was no great teacher of his generation, and no miracle worker. Mark turned Jesus Christ into both.

    • Replies: @anon
  93. Dumbo says:
    @Blodgie

    Yes. Talmudic Judaism is the nice one, it just asks “what’s good for the Jews”.

    It is deeply sick.

    People who hate Christmas and Christ are the ones who are sick and mentally ill. I mean, seriously, can’t you see how sick is what you are saying? What’s there to hate about it? Do you hate Santa Claus too?

    Merry Christmas, Jew.

  94. @jsinton

    A sword is also a cross. The Muslims presumably curved their sabres and daggers because they didn’t want to hold a cross in their hands when going into battle.

  95. anon[353] • Disclaimer says:

    “The prophets called Israel to repent, which meant to turn or return, and which referred primarily to a change in Israel’s collective life, and not simply to a change in individual lives.

    Sorry, Mr. Roth or whatever your real name is. Christ cares only about the individual, and repentance is a matter of turning away from sin as an individual. Luke 15:7 reads:

    I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

    Have you never read the parable of the prodigal son? the lost sheep? Even Christian children have enough Bible knowledge to refute the points in this article. Just read Luke 15:

    [MORE]

    The Parable of the Lost Son
    11 Jesus continued: “There was a man who had two sons. 12 The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’ So he divided his property between them.

    13 “Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14 After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15 So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16 He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.

    17 “When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’ 20 So he got up and went to his father.

    “But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.

    21 “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’

    22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.

    25 “Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 27 ‘Your brother has come,’ he replied, ‘and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.’

    28 “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29 But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’

    31 “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

    Sorry Mr. Roth, but everything in your article is simply disinformation. None of it is based in the Gospels but rather in the interpretations of the Gospel by other people (Borg, Crossan, etc.). Neither Borg nor Crossan are prophets. Neither of them have been appointed by God to tell us the truth of Scripture. In order for anyone to take this article seriously, you have to have literally never read the Bible, which is true for many people, which is why disinformation like this is able to confuse and mislead a lot of people.

    Belief in the gospel does not mean merely to believe, as a condition of salvation, in certain doctrines or teachings, but to “give one’s heart to” the good news that the Kingdom of God is at hand. See Marcus J. Borg

    Totally the opposite of Christian doctrine. In any case, Marcus J. Borg does not dictate Christian doctrine, the Gospel does. Borg is entitled to his opinions, but at the end of the day, they’re only his opinions, and not based on Scripture:

    Belief in the Gospel means to believe in Jesus Christ as a condition of salvation. Here is some Christianity 101 for you. And again, to reiterate, sin is a matter of the individual heart, not the collective life of a polity or group of people. Romans 3 says:

    But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[i] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus

    John 14:6

    Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me

    John 3:16 ESV

    “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

    Acts 16:31 ESV

    And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

    John 5:24 ESV

    Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

    John 14:6 ESV

    Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

    John 6:47

    Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

    Romans 10:9 ESV

    Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

    John 3:36 ESV

    Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

    John 8:24 ESV

    I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

    1 John 1:7 ESV

    But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

    Hebrews 11:1-40 ESV

    Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible. By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks. By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God.

    Mark 16:15-16 ESV

    And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

    2 Peter 3:9 ESV

    The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

    1 John 5:12 ESV

    Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

    Hebrews 11:6 ESV

    And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

    Ephesians 2:8 ESV

    For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

    Acts 4:12 ESV

    And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

    John 6:67-71 ESV

    So Jesus said to the Twelve, “Do you want to go away as well?” Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life, and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.” Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the Twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.” He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the Twelve, was going to betray him.

    John 6:55-59 ESV

    For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” Jesus said these things in the synagogue, as he taught at Capernaum.

    Romans 6:23 ESV

    For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    John 6:50-71 ESV

    This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.” The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. …

    John 20:19-24 ESV

    On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.” …

    2 Corinthians 6:2 ESV

    For he says, “In a favorable time I listened to you, and in a day of salvation I have helped you.” Behold, now is the favorable time; behold, now is the day of salvation.

    1 John 5:13 ESV

    I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

    John 11:26 ESV

    And everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

    1 Peter 3:18 ESV

    For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

    1 Timothy 1:15 ESV

    The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.

    John 1:12 ESV

    But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

    Revelation 3:20 ESV

    Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.

    Acts 2:38-39 ESV

    And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”

    1 Peter 3:18-22 ESV

    For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

    1 Corinthians 1:21 ESV

    For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.

    Romans 10:17 ESV

    So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

    John 20:29-31 ESV

    Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

    Matthew 9:6-8 ESV

    But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—he then said to the paralytic—“Rise, pick up your bed and go home.” And he rose and went home. When the crowds saw it, they were afraid, and they glorified God, who had given such authority to men.

    Revelation 21:1-22:21 ESV

    Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” …

    Romans 1:1-32 ESV

    Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, …

    1 Peter 1:8 ESV

    Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory,

    2 Corinthians 5:21 ESV

    For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

    John 6:40 ESV

    For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

    Luke 13:3 ESV

    No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

    1 John 1:9 ESV

    If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    Colossians 1:13-14 ESV

    He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

    Romans 10:9-10 ESV

    Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

    Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV

    For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

    Romans 6:1-23 ESV

    What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. …

    Acts 2:38 ESV

    And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    John 3:18 ESV

    Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

    Revelation 21:8 ESV

    But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

    Hebrews 2:1-18 ESV

    Therefore we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it. For since the message declared by angels proved to be reliable, and every transgression or disobedience received a just retribution, how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard, while God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will. Now it was not to angels that God subjected the world to come, of which we are speaking. …

    Acts 10:43 ESV

    To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

    Acts 3:19 ESV

    Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out,

    Acts 2:41 ESV

    So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

    John 5:39-40 ESV

    You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

    John 3:3 ESV

    Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

    John 3:1-36 ESV

    Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. …

    Matthew 7:21-23 ESV

    “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

    1 John 2:1-29 ESV

    My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: …

    2 Peter 2:4 ESV

    For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;

    2 Peter 1:1-21 ESV

    Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord. His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, …

    1 Peter 3:21 ESV

    Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

    Ephesians 5:1-33 ESV

    Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children. And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. …

    Galatians 1:6-9 ESV

    I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

    1 Corinthians 15:17 ESV

    And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins.

    • Agree: RockaBoatus
    • Thanks: ivan
  96. @obwandiyag

    “The synoptic gospels are basically a criticism of wealth and a championing of the poor and the oppressed. That’s it” – That’s only true if one bothers to ignore the central message of Jesus which are His claims of divinity, Sonship, the arrival of the kingdom which is spiritual in nature, His death on behalf of others, how heaven itself is for those who place their faith in Him, including the blindness of man and especially of the Jewish people themselves.

    Jesus, in fact, directs little real attention to the economic status of the peasants that surrounded him. He is more concerned that they store riches in heaven. He is more concerned about the state of their souls. He knows good-and-well that their deepest needs are spiritual and not necessarily those that are physical. Yes, Jesus made sure the crowds were fed in the miracle of the fish and loaves, but the message of the Gospel came first.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  97. Chris Moore says: • Website
    @Jack McArthur

    a form of displaced religion in which there is no acknowledgment of personal sin and salvation is not for the individual in heaven but only the group survival on earth. That isn’t Christianity but modern Judaism.

    News flash: That’s also neoconned Christianity and Judaized liberalism.

    You don’t see neocon Christians going on about their collective personal sins, nor Judaized liberals. You see them presenting themselves and every collective pursuit as perfect and infallible, just like the ((Jews)).

    And there can be collective personal sins; for example, “Christian” support for the Iraq war lies and “liberal” support for ((Jews)) and BLM gang-bangers. Now also neocon “Christian” support for ((Jews)), and “liberal” support for wicked Empire.

    The ((Jews)) have infected both. When are modern “Christians” and “liberals” going to admit the sin of allowing ((Jewish))/demonic entre into their morals, ethics, and behavior? When is the Pope?

    We’re in the same position as was Jesus prior to death — nearly everyone around him was corrupt, cowardly, and rotten to the core.

  98. @Blodgie

    You simply do not understand Christianity according to a close reading of the New Testament. When one looks at Jesus Himself based on a fair assessment of the Gospels, one does not come away with a weak impression of Him. Quite the opposite. Whatever one may think of the early Christians and their doctrines, weakness was not the mark of these people. Is it any wonder why it spread throughout much of the world?

    I suggest you read carefully the entire New Testament, and that you learn and apply some basic hermeneutical principles of interpretation before doing so (e.g., reading words and sentences in their context, learning the historical framework, taking into consideration different genres such as figures of speech, parallelism, poetical language and hyperbole, etc.).

  99. Nancy says:
    @The Pelican

    11th Encyclopedia Britannica at Archive.org. Is there another online more easily searchable?

    • Replies: @The Pelican
  100. Mr. Ed says:

    @obwandiyag: At least you have an easy-to-recognize handle, making it simple to ignore you; all I ever see from you is ‘Muh science;, ‘Muh Likud Party’.

  101. Anonymous[118] • Disclaimer says:
    @gay troll

    He speaks out against Mosaic law: against divorce, against the sabbath, against male and heteronormative chauvinism, against tribal chauvinism, against material gain, against dietary law.

    Uh, sorry, no. The Jesus of the Gospels never said anything about homos. Please stop trying to sodomize us with your homo agenda.

    • Replies: @Felix Grossman
  102. Mefobills says:
    @Hardrock

    Could you provide an example or description of the world you would prefer us to inhabit….is this world described in anything you have written or in any other work of literature you can recommend?

    I am interested in this less dangerous world

    __________________

    https://www.unz.com/?s=ANARCHIST&Action=Search&ptype=all&commentsearch=only&commenter=RoatanBill

    He (RoatanBill) is an anarchist, which is caved in head, shit-tier level of ideology. It assumes incorrectly that if all brakes on human behavior are lifted, then we can all sing Kumbaya together.

    • Replies: @Nancy
  103. @IronForge

    You were born yesterday?

    • Troll: IronForge
  104. @Hardrock

    How about one where people with a working moral compass don’t volunteer to butcher people in other countries because some asshole in DC said so.

    How about one where everyone is allowed to protect themselves with their weapon of choice as the 2nd Amendment intended and costumed thugs known as street police are obsolete. The crime rate drops like a rock because the predators in the society are buried instead of sent to prison where the decent working people currently pay to house, feed, clothe and provide medical care for the filth in the society so they can be released to commit more crimes by a criminal justice system that hasn’t worked in decades.

    How about one where business owners can protect their property from blm and antifa thugs by shotgunning them to send a message to their compatriots.

    How about one where there are no public schools and no school boards that want to inflict their woke culture on innocent children.

    How about one where welfare is a limited and temporary benefit that ends and there are no generations on welfare.

    I could go on, but that’s the general idea.

    • Replies: @Nancy
    , @Hardrock
  105. @HT

    Absolutely! The Austrian Corporal tried to save Europe and their entire civilized world from the Judeo-Bolshevik Globo-Homo world that we now wallow in.

    The Allies murdered off and oppressed massive numbers of the German people (both during and after the war) so that the West could have gay rights, Trannie rights, anti-racism, 24-hour porn, drag queen story time for our children, rampant race-mixing, Jewish dominance in every sphere, Black Lives Matter shoved down our collective throats, feminism, and so that every generation since the WW2 ended could be more ‘woke’ than the last.

    • Agree: HT
  106. Mefobills says:
    @RockaBoatus

    Jesus, in fact, directs little real attention to the economic status of the peasants that surrounded him. He is more concerned that they store riches in heaven

    Jesus was re-balancing civilization. The creditor/debtor dynamic had tilted too far toward creditor, hence Jesus mission starting on the Jubilee year.

    The “storing of riches in heaven” came later, around the same time that the word “sin” changed meaning.

    The “time of Jesus,” whether you believe in him or not, was a time of debt polarization, exactly as is happening today.

    https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/66231513-and-forgive-them-their-debts

    “the economic aim of debt jubilees was to restore solvency to the population as a whole. Many royal proclamations also freed businesses from various taxes and tariff duties, but the main objective was political and ideological. It was to create a fair and equitable society.”

    “The creditors’ objective is to replace the customary right of citizens to self-support by its opposite principle: the right of creditors to foreclose on the property and means of livelihood pledged as collateral (or to buy it at distress prices), and to make these transfers irreversible.”

    “If debts are not written down, they will expand and become a lever for creditors to pry away land and income from the indebted economy at large. That is why debt cancellations to save rural economies from insolvency were deemed sacred from Sumer and Babylonia through the Bible.

    Judeo-Christianity is a creditor religion, not in alignment with the Christianity of Jesus.

    • Agree: Arthur MacBride
    • Disagree: RockaBoatus
    • Thanks: Nancy
    • Replies: @Nancy
    , @RockaBoatus
  107. Nancy says:
    @anon

    Yes, it seems like the #1 spot is often taken by a 24/7 hasbara/8200/sayanim (?) monitoring system, to immediately claim, and subvert, it for/by the Termites. They are the Talmud Tribe whose #1 enemy has always been Christianity. I found it hard to believe until I read Ron’s ‘Oddities of the Jewish Religion’ for verifiable confirmation. So, hope you’re paid … er, poorly… happy subversive 😉

    • Replies: @gay troll
  108. @Anonymous

    Jesus says that just as some people are made eunuch, some people are born eunuch, and we should endeavor to understand them. In light of Christ’s flowing locks, chiseled abs, coterie of young bachelors, and emphasis on simply loving one another, he was probably “born eunuch” himself. He was certainly no family man.

  109. @gay troll

    What an absolute load of BS. If you want to argue for a historical Jesus, why not provide some historical sources that attest to his existence? Instead we have a few historical opinions based upon – what else? – the biography of the Gospels.

    He is referred to by Tacitus in Annals book 15.

    Most historical figures from Roman/Greek times only have a few references.

    Plato and Socrates are a notable example.

    They didn’t actually have book tours and CSPAN back then. Entire records of empires exist from the writings of a single person.

  110. @Franz

    Franz, I saw this version some 35 years ago. It is brilliant in its simplicity and portrayal of the Christ, as a rough and righteous man. He more resembled a dark skinned working man than the later movies that had him looking like he never got any dirt on his fingernails or had to go behind a rock to relieve himself. Probably one of the best “Jesus Movies” that have made produced and , strangely enough, by a Marxist director.

    • Agree: Nancy, Franz
  111. @Dr. Fasci, America’s Doctor

    According to internet astrologers?

    Assume your comment follows watching the vdo evidence ?
    If not, one may reasonably conclude that you are not a person to be taken seriously.

    This below sent me ref year of King Herod’s death, I followed it up with further reading. Your response is a good signal to post up some of that reading, thus allowing any interested to actually read and weigh in the balance if or not 1 Tishri (Trumpets) in 3 “BC”, calculated to Sept 11, is a valid position (ref Temple feasts etc).

    Original reading —

    https://drmsh.com/september-11-happy-birthday-to-jesus/

    Also —

    https://www.askelm.com/star/
    https://goodnessofgodministries.international/2011/12/22/when-was-jesus-christ-born-the-bible-says-september-11-3bc-the-day-of-the-feast-of-trumpets/

  112. Mefobills says:

    Could it be, that everything we know is wrong, including modern Christianity?

    The rebel Jesus was not de-contextualized in his time, but modern western man is:

    To say that Michael Hudson’s new book And Forgive Them Their Debts: Lending, Foreclosure, and Redemption from Bronze Age Finance to the Jubilee Year (ISLET 2018) is profound is an understatement on the order of saying that the Mariana Trench is deep. To grasp his central argument is so alien to our modern way of thinking about civilization and barbarism that Hudson quite matter-of-factly agreed with me that the book is, to the extent that it will be understood, “earth-shattering” in both intent and effect. Over the past three decades, gleaned (under the auspices of Harvard’s Peabody Museum) and then synthesized the scholarship of American and British and French and German and Soviet assyriologists (spelled with a lower-case ato denote collectively all who study the various civilizations of ancient Mesopotamia, which include Sumer, the Akkadian Empire, Ebla, Babylonia, et al., as well as Assyria with a capital A). Hudson demonstrates that we, twenty-first century globalists, have been morally blinded by a dark legacy of some twenty-eight centuries of decontextualized history. This has left us, for all practical purposes, utterly ignorant of the corrective civilizational model that is needed to save ourselves from tottering into bleak neo-feudal barbarism.

    https://williambowles.info/2018/11/16/everything-you-thought-you-knew-about-western-civilization-is-wrong-a-review-of-michael-hudsons-new-book-and-forgive-them-their-debts/

  113. Nancy says:
    @RoatanBill

    My formerly-liberal self surprised fellow travelers with my idea that we should eliminate the rigged criminal legal racket by arming everyone with a pistol (and training!) for self defense. It seems the ‘criminal element’ is already living it out, and ‘eliminating’ their ‘criminals’ by means of ‘legal’ (per Kim Fox) ‘mutual combat’. (I also thought immigrants should be returned to work for economic justice in their own countries… remitting \$ just enables & enriches the plutocrat parasites back home.)

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  114. @Robert Roth

    Jesus deliberately engaged in political theater and other acts fully intended to convey the messages I describe.

    He was not stupid and He knew very well the political and social theater of His time. And He had influent and rich friends, as Lazarus and Joseph of Arimathea.

    But his political moves were not directed primarily at changing the social and political reality. They were intended as a complementary tool to convey His main message: the Kingdom of God is accessible to whoever turns to God, repents from past and present sins, and practices His doctrine of loving God and his neighbour.

    • Agree: Rich
  115. gay troll says:
    @Nancy

    My dear, the only thing I criticize more fiercely than Christianity is Judaism. Or Zionism, which is a defining feature of both religions. If you think I am hasbara you are an imbecile.

    • Replies: @Anon
  116. @Nancy

    I have the cd rom. Quite a bargain, ~\$15 on Amazon. The 11th and 12th are rumored to predate a bunch of political correctness.

    • Replies: @Nancy
  117. J1234 says:

    The historical Jesus disclosed by contemporary scholarship appears to be fundamentally the same as the Jesus who is preached and practiced in the Catholic Worker movement….

    Roth’s problem is that “contemporary scholarship” raises no red flags for him. He should apply the same scrutiny to his sources as he does to his subject matter.

    Just like the biblical Jesus, the “historic” Jesus sometimes ends up being rorschach for people who put their world views and agendas ahead of everything else, including their intellectual integrity. Despite his uncommon compassion for people in dire circumstance, Jesus was a pretty poor SJW. He preached, above all else, that individuals seek spiritual solutions to – or relief from – worldly problems.

  118. @Chris Moore

    It’s no surprise you find agitation against Roman debt slavery in Palestine at this time. Pretty obviously the Germans and the Picts and Celts were not fans of it either. Granting Jesus was an actual person (As common as the name was, there were probably a bunch of Jesii) The Jews had a rock and a hard place situation, always being in the zone between other people’s competing empires and in the trade zone so it wouldn’t be suprising there’s some level of authenticity underlying the Flavian fraud.

  119. @Nancy

    Before leaving the US, I carried (Colt 45 ACP, Glock 9mm) for over 30 years in New York and Texas and it never occurred to me to ask anyone for permission. It is my natural right to protect myself and I require no one’s permission. That permission is demanded by law simply means the laws are corrupt and to be ignored.

    If you check my comment history, it is replete with my comments on how absolutely useless street cops are in preventing or even making a dent in crime. The average person has the natural right to carry any weapon they choose to allow them to protect themselves and their neighbors, should the situation arise.

    The added benefit of getting rid of the useless street cops is that the school board, mayor, etc no longer has costumed thugs as their protectors. An armed population would instantly provide the political class with an overdue attitude adjustment. The tax money saved by eliminating street cops and their benefits which includes retirement, is nothing to sneeze at.

    • Replies: @RockaBoatus
  120. I can explain post #1 by gay troll.

    A while back an openly Marxist and anti-Christian professor wrote a book that claimed Jesus never existed. It became book of the month in the liberal press but no one bothered to run it by actual historians or check to see if the professor had a pre-existing bias. People still pick up the book and assume the professor behind it was honestly trying to make a case.

    It is similar to Mismeasure of Man and Guns, Germs and Steel in that you can read online about how these books are fraudulent but it’s not like they will include that information in the forward. Mismeasure is still required in numerous college courses even though no one denies that the Morton skull data was accurate which means Gould was the fraud:
    https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pbio.1001071#pbio.1001071-Gould2

    So Gould was caught lying but the establishment still prints his book and reveres him as a hero of science.

    The left really doesn’t care about what is true or not. Christianity and non-Boasnian Anthropology (using the scientific method) are their mortal enemies. They want all Whites to be anti-Christian while supporting the absurd argument that all evolutionary groups just happened to end up with the same traits (excluding the superficial). They want Whites to drop one religion for another which is the religion of leftism where “bad Whites” held back evolutionary groups and thousands of years of evolution provided a special exemption for the human brain.

    Take a close look and you will notice that evangelical atheists will use evolution to attack Christianity but never Islam or Judaism. They also never question the establishment line of race not existing. The establishment only allows attacks on Christianity. Evangelical atheists submit to the establishment while pretending to be rebels against some overruling Christian hegemony.

  121. anon[353] • Disclaimer says:
    @Felix Grossman

    Look at what Paul is actually saying here. Paul is saying that he laid down Jesus Christ. Not that he witnessed Christ. That he invented him.

    That’s not what Paul is saying in the quote. He is saying that neither he nor any of other apostles are to be followed as if they were Jesus Christ. He’s telling the believers not to make such a big deal of the particular apostles from whom they might have received the Gospel because ultimately all apostles are just preaching the same message of salvation through Christ. That he “invented him”? Paul literally says in every line of his epistles that he is a servant of Christ and called to be an apostle of Christ. I am not even going quote epistles because I’d have to literally copy and paste the all of the epistles, in which Christ central to everything. At one point, Paul even laments the fate of the Jews for being cut off from Christ and wishes that he might be cut off and suffered damnation for their sake:

    [MORE]

    Romans 9

    I am speaking the truth in Christ—I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit— 2 that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers,[a] my kinsmen according to the flesh. 4 They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. 5 To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.

    Here is your post again:

    You say there is independent material in Luke and Matthew, which is true, but there is also material copied directly from Mark. Thus they may be embellished, but they are definitely plagiarized.

    You’re using loaded language here. For believers, there’s no concept of “plagiarizing” or “copying.” They are members of a common Christian community who help each other and share information with one another. You’re acting as if they are held to the standards of 20th century scholars and academics who have to obey the AMA citation manual in order to get a thesis published. They are members of a tightly-knit community, a common family, in which there is no sense of “plagiarizing.”

    they are based on the parable of Mark

    You are the one characterizing Mark as a “parable.” Mark itself is not a “parable.” It is a written historical account of what happened. It records parables told by Jesus. You are very disingenuously conflating the fact that Mark records parables with the text of Mark itself. It would be like me reading Einstein’s paper on relativity, which uses the metaphors of a speeding train car and stationary platform for different observers and then saying the whole theory of relativity is just an allegorical story, not really a scientific theory. The parables are used to illustrate spiritual and theological truths – Mark itself provides concrete information such as references to time, places, and events.

    As for Paul’s claim that Jesus Christ appeared to Cephas and the apostles and “the 500”, well this only happened after the resurrection, right? Who did Jesus appear to before his death? Mark writes of tens of thousands of witnesses to the mortal Christ. But Paul claims only 500 witnesses to the risen Christ. Obviously Paul and Mark do not corroborate each othe

    Where is the contradiction? Paul was talking about witnesses in the context of the resurrection because his purpose is to demonstrate the historicity of the resurrection. You are the one demanding that Paul provide proof of the living Christ, not his contemporaries. There’s no need to mention witnesses of the living Christ because it was just common knowledge that he lived. Also, if I prove that someone is resurrected, why would I need to offer proof that he lived? The fact that someone is resurrected means they were once alive and then died! The Gospel itself tells us about all the people to whom Christ appeared (e.g. the Pharisees, Roman soldiers, common people, etc.). You actually answered your own question. You set up ridiculous, arbitrary, and impossible standards in order to then judge the historicity of the text.

    If Paul is not the origin of Jesus Christ, why can’t Paul tell us anything about Christ’s ministry on Earth?

    Paul wrote letters to the church expounding upon doctrine. Like the epistles of James, Timothy, and Peter, which also don’t record the ministry of Christ that much, the epistles of Paul have a different purpose from the Gospels. This would be like reading Einstein’s paper on relativity and then asking why it doesn’t mention any details about the life of Einstein. It’s not a biography of Einstein, it just a paper expounding on the theory of relativity.

    How is that you your post doesn’t seem to grasp basic literary concepts like genre, purpose, tone, metaphor, allegory, etc.?

    If Mark is not adapted from Paul, then how has Paul’s written philosophy been turned into Christ’s spoken dialogue

    Paul’s epistles were never “turned into Christ’s spoken dialogue.” No one ever claimed that. Paul’s epistles expound on Christian doctrine and are written to specific churches to address a variety of issues confronting the church with regard to doctrine, behavior, etc. The Book of Acts also records the ministry of Paul and his interaction with the other apostles (Peter, James, etc.), particularly at the Jerusalem Council. Why would Mark have to be adapted from Paul? Mark is Mark, and Paul’s letters stand on their own.

    Paul says there was no great teacher of his generation, and no miracle worker.

    Citation please? Where did Paul say this? Even if he did, so what? Paul tells us that Jesus Christ is not just a miracle worker, but God himself! Paul even tells us that Christ’s resurrection was witnessed by 500. Do you need a greater miracle than that? 🙂

    Mark turned Jesus Christ into both.

    Mark just records the words and deeds of Christ. He didn’t turn Jesus Christ into anything. You’re free not to believe, of course, but the express purpose of the apostles is to transmit history. If you don’t believe in supernatural events a priori, then you will naturally accuse Mark of “turning Jesus Christ into a miracle worker,” but then the same accusation can be leveled against anyone recording supernatural events. We can say that the Pentateuch writers turned Moses into a “miracle worker.” We can say that about any religion.

  122. @John Johnson

    Oh brother. Tacitus was born 26 years after Jesus was supposedly crucified. According to Wikipedia, “it is not known when Tacitus began writing the Annals, but he was well into writing it by AD 116.” Far from being a witness to the life of Christ, a century removed, Tacitus can only reference the barest historical detail. And this detail was in all likelihood cribbed from Mark. Scholars believe Mark was written as early as 80 or 90 CE. Your invocation of Tacitus only supports my thesis that all biographical accounts of Christ can be traced back to the gospel of Mark.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
  123. I started to post a reply to the liberation theologian / marxist author, but then I read the comments. The vast majority have no idea what Christianity is about and spend their time attacking the strawmen they have created. Once the strawmen have been beaten down and set on fire, they all pat themselves on the back and congratulate themselves on their victories and for being such great thinkers. Trying to describe the Light to those who live in and love the dark is impossible and a complete waste of time. I would not waste yours or mine in doing so.

    To the author: What you have written is based on arrogance and ignorance of the Truth and who the Truth really was and still is. You serve your master well, but in the end, he will not reward you for your faithful service.

    Lewis was right about how Hell works.

    • Agree: RockaBoatus
  124. @Felix Grossman

    There’s no discrepancy between Matthew and Luke in their genealogies. Matthew traces the Davidic lineage of Jesus through Joseph, whereas Luke traces it through Mary. There are a host of works by Christian scholars who resolve this seeming discrepancy. I’d recommend William Hendriksen in his commentaries on Matthew and Luke which summarizes the best arguments and presents what he believes is the answer.

    For a different view on this question, see James G. Machen in his book on the virgin birth of Jesus. He explains that both genealogies are traced through Joseph. For many, it resolves the issue in a different and probable way.

  125. A wonderful piece of writing but it appears that most of the commenters here focus mostly on how the message of this article is presented instead of the message itself.

    This is why our nation is such a mess; because people can no longer simply accept what is, but instead must argue, debate, and fight over everything until we no longer have a nation.

    Whether the historical references of this article are completely true or not, they are the author’s interpretation of the historical references he has researched and read.

    Why make such a big deal over such details? Are so many afraid to make common cause with anyone who may present any semblance of a Leftist agenda?

    If so, I would strongly recommend you all get your acts together as we need each other in this current crises of our nation.

    Its not Left or Right but simply who are being the exploited and who the exploiters are and how we get rid of them…

  126. Nancy says:
    @Mefobills

    Perhaps apropos? Mark 12:41.. “…. He said to them, “Truly I say to you, this poor widow put in more than all the contributors to the treasury; for they all put in out of their surplus, but she, out of her poverty, put in all she owned, all she had to live on.” Regressive taxes are one way of ‘balancing’ …?

  127. @Fart Blossom

    Appreciated and here are some resources in appreciation of what is termed Raw Material Economics

    http://www.normeconomics.org

    and

    http://www.economy101.net/Raw-Materials-Economics.html

  128. @RoatanBill

    Well said, and I completely agree. For you big city Californians who are worried about carrying concealed, if it helps any the California Penal Code only makes concealed carrying of a handgun a MISDEMEANOR! It isn’t until your third conviction of carrying concealed that it finally becomes a felony. This means they must first catch you carrying concealed three separate times before they can charge you with a felony violation.

    Many cops (though not all) will be sympathetic to you if caught – especially if you articulately express your fear of the rising tide of violent crime that public officials and police departments are unwilling to combat. The same appeal could be made to a judge which has the potential of gaining some empathy for your cause.

    If you know how to properly carry a firearm concealed, no one will ever know you are carrying. And if you’re smart about concealed carry, you won’t place yourself in situations where the likelihood of having to use it is probable. Also, if you practice regularly and are proficient with your firearm, you likely will not miss your intended target and accidentally shoot some innocent bystander.

    If you’re going carry concealed, be smart about it. Know what you’re doing. Practice regularly. Know the laws in your state and county. And don’t let your firearm ‘print’ out of your clothing. Don’t tell others that you’re carry concealed. And only use it as a last resort to save your life or that of your family. Avoid trouble and conflicts with others like the plague.

    • Agree: RoatanBill
    • Replies: @John Johnson
  129. @Mefobills

    Nonsense. You’re reading foreign ideas into the text of Scripture. No one reading the gospels with an open mind and a sense of fairness to the gospels comes away with such notions as yours. They have to be injected into the passages because they do not naturally and hermeneutically flow from it.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
    , @obwandiyag
  130. Nancy says:
    @Mefobills

    Or, perhaps, prehistorically, when humans lived in ‘bands’ of 150 more or less (Dunbar’s number). Per D Graeber (RIP), et al, ‘our’ economy ran on an accepted, and necessary, rule of mutual obligation. But today…. we are apparently too ‘dense’, and don’t ‘need’ one another any more.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  131. Anon[709] • Disclaimer says:

    Another Anti-Christian article written by someone who hates Christianity.

    ‘Nuf said

    • Replies: @Anon
  132. Ko says:

    This is an awesome and striking body of work that actually mirrors most of my unorganized beliefs of present events in the world with my understanding of Jesus. Thank you Robert.

    • Replies: @Robert Roth
  133. Rich says:
    @Dr. Fasci, America’s Doctor

    They were whipped for dishonoring His Father’s house.

    • Thanks: Marcion
  134. @Franz

    Pasolini shows Christ as a Marxist avant-la-lettre and therefore uses half of the text of Matthew.”

    I know nothing about Pasolini but I rather suspect that Marx is “Christian” poster-la-vie. Otherwise known as a plagiarist and manipulative opprotunist in whatever order one prefers.

    Then there’s this,

    “ It’s possible that I shall make an ass of myself. But in that case one can always get out of it with a little dialectic. I have, of course, so worded my proposition as to be right either way.”

    Karl Marx, Letter to Friedrich Engels, dated 15 August 1857

    https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/letters/

    I think I detect the mephitic odor of a con artiste (escroc).

  135. Ko says:

    It’s sad how so many commenters seem so wicked with their words and dumbfounded by a masterful piece of writing. I could easily defend the work but it stands alone for those who practice the Zen of reading, and taking a work at face value. But I won’t say anything more except many of the commenters are just nuts. Undoubtedly they would be standing before Jesus on the cross while spitting on him, shouting vulgarities, and throwing stones. Alas, hell needs more volunteers and I hope they enjoy their eternities.

    • Disagree: Rich
    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  136. Kapyong says:
    @mcohen

    “anyone know where jesus4 is buried”

    So far there are FIVE tombs of Jesus to choose from – 3 in Jerusalem, 1 in Japan, 1 in Kashmir :

    Calvary
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Sepulchre

    Garden Tomb
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_Tomb

    Talpiot tomb
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lost_Tomb_of_Jesus

    Japan tomb
    http://www.thiaoouba.com/tomb.htm

    Kashmir tomb
    http://www.tombofjesus.com/

  137. @John Johnson

    A while back an openly Marxist and anti-Christian professor wrote a book that claimed Jesus never existed.

    And yet you cannot or will not even name the author, much less address whatever specific claims the author made, even though you insinuate they have been plagiarized by gay troll. The fact is that more than one professor has claimed that Jesus never existed. But you are more interested in deploying ad hominems than attempting any kind of analysis.

    Bugger off and have a joyous Yule.

  138. Traditional Carols from King’s College Cambridge.

    May this recording be a Blessing to you, whoever you are.

    • Thanks: Agent76
  139. Mefobills says:
    @RockaBoatus

    They have to be injected into the passages because they do not naturally and hermeneutically flow from it.

    The basis of your argument is “naturally and hermeneutically.”

    The basis of my argument, and quoting the Harvard team, is that the words used in original Christianity, have been morphed to the present era and lost their original meaning. Hence the modern day confusion.

    The Harvard team included linguists who traced “Jesus” language to its original cognates.

    This really isn’t open to your interpretation, as the language is finally made precise.

    https://subversivechurch.blog/2020/01/14/snapshot-and-forgive-them-their-debts-michael-hudson/

    The Real Message of Jesus: Jesus’s first sermon announced that he had come to proclaim a Clean Slate debt cancellation (the Jubilee Year), as was first described in the Bible (Leviticus 25), and had been used in Babylonia since Hammurabi’s dynasty. This message – more than any other religious claim – is what threatened his enemies, and is why he was put to death. This interpretation has been all but expunged from our contemporary understanding of the phrase, “…and forgive them their debts,” in The Lord’s Prayer. It has been changed to “…and forgive them their trespasses (or sins),” depending on the particular Christian tradition that influenced the translation from the Greek opheilēma/opheiletēs (debts/debtors).

    Contrary to the message of Jesus, also found in the Old Testament of the Bible and in other ancient texts, debt repayment has become sanctified and mystified as a way of moralizing claims on borrowers, allowing creditor elites and oligarchs the leverage to take over societies and privatize personal and public assets – especially in hard times.

    The ruling creditor Oligarchy reserved crucifixion for political dissidents. It was a way of saying, don’t even think about threatening us.

    The creditor oligarchy in turn, had come to power after Hillel’s Prozbul Clause.

    https://michael-hudson.com/2019/04/the-delphic-oracle-as-their-davos/

    JS: In the Mosaic commandments to forgive debt, can we infer that there was some sort of program of debt forgiveness in place already in place in postexilic Jerusalem?

    MH: Yes, but it ended with Rabbi Hillel and the Prozbul clause. Debtors had to sign this clause at the end of their debt contracts saying that they waived their rights under the Jubilee year in order to get a loan. That was why Jesus fought against the Pharisees and the rabbinical leadership. That’s what Luke 4 is all about [And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, to preach the acceptable year of the Lord”= the Jubilee year.]

    Luke also pointed out that the Pharisees loved money!

    • Replies: @RockaBoatus
    , @R.G. Camara
  140. Kapyong says:
    @The Pelican

    “Historical records are not the ideal sources to go to, especially for the rumpus Jesus caused. Look at the spectacle instead, the shrieks, the hubbub, the churches, the Orders, the impacts upon the world”

    Yes, Christianity, and Christians indeed made a huge impact on the world.

    But No, Jesus himself made no personal impact what-so-ever.

    No early Christian ever claims personally meeting or seeing or hearing a historical Jesus. Just tales of visions, and ambiguous third-hand claims in later documents. Jesus left no writings, no artifacts, no evidence, no records. Nothing contemporary. Nothing historical.

    His entire life story is based on G.Mark, as others have mentioned here. Religious literature of unknown provenance, based on characters and episodes in Jewish scriptures, and Paul, (and a smidgin of Greek myth), which was not even mentioned or quoted by Christian writers until early-mid second century – a century after the alleged events.

    Belief in Jesus changed the world.
    No Jesus was required.

    • Thanks: Sue Dunham
    • Replies: @The Pelican
  141. @nokangaroos

    Thank you for making this accurate statement about the necessary truth Michael Hudson asserts in ...and forgive them their debts (2018) although it doesn’t appear clear this article’s author is making the same assertion as he mentions rebellion against Rome when, as you correctly assert, Divine Jesus was rebelling against usurious Rabbinical Judaism:

    – The author (like M. Hudson btw) is right in his observation that Jesus
    was the rebellion against Hillel and the pharisees
    (=”moneylenders”, =”rabbinical Judaism”) and that´s the reason (((they)))
    hate Him so (-> Lk 11:37-54, Mt 23:1-39, Mk 12:35-40, Lk 20:45-47).

  142. anon[358] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dumbo

    Jeiwsh and early Christian used to pray in the same places ofmworships This ocntinued for few deaceds even after Jesus had fallen to the intrigues of Sanhedrin,Roman military and Pilate . Complete seperaation came after the temple was razed to the ground. Two followed a seperaate path . Christinaity was hijacked by Paul .He changed the direction. His aim was to gather as many converts as possible .
    Judaism it self was not molonothic even at that time . God ,afterlife,moral roles of the livings and the relation to the state were viewed diffently by diffeernet sects . Judiasm was also infuelnced by Persian religion and by Buddhism .
    The pushback aginst Jesus by Snahedrin and Phariseee were rooted into Jesus’s empahiss on social justice and not about claiming to be a propehet . Him being literallly son of god was later development borrowed from prevailing religious cultrual parctices in the littoral cities of mediterranean .

    Throughout the ages,people have been persecuted for raising vocies against oppression not for claiming to be God .Peopel would laugh and ignore unless the claim is the selling point or a banner for the movement aginst the repressive power strcurue .
    Arians and Cathars of Spain and S Farnce continued to believe in Jesus being a man ,a propeht with divine power until rooted out in 7 th cnetury . Muslism accept Jesus as prophet though a speacial one.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  143. @Ko

    Alas, hell needs more volunteers and I hope they enjoy their eternities.

    Thank you for being a typical christian, one who would wish harm on someone else for not believing in your fantasy.

    • Replies: @GeneralRipper
  144. Mefobills says:
    @Nancy

    Or, perhaps, prehistorically, when humans lived in ‘bands’ of 150 more or less (Dunbar’s number). Per D Graeber (RIP), et al, ‘our’ economy ran on an accepted, and necessary, rule of mutual obligation. But today…. we are apparently too ‘dense’, and don’t ‘need’ one another any more.

    Those bands of humans used mutual debts and credits, and did not invent money. Talleys of debts were done with sticks or writing down on a clay tablet, or some sort of record.

    When you get above 150 or so, you cannot remember who owes who what.

    We aren’t too dense now, but we are propagandized by the worst sort of people, who want to take rents and usury against civilization forever.

    The propaganda includes changing language, and injecting false dialectics into the public consciousness. If you don’t have language then you cannot think on or discuss a subject.

    This idea that creditor rights are always supreme, and that debts may mount continuously to then claim the universe, is a false dialectic emitted from the creditor class.

    Changing religion, or creating new creditor religions was funded into being by this class.

    • Thanks: Nancy
  145. @Kratoklastes

    You are an idiot

    Or: you are working for the FBI

    Pick 1

  146. Thank you for this necessary accurate insight, Mr. Roth:

    Just as the people were to rest on the seventh or Sabbath Day, so God’s land was to rest on the seventh or Sabbath Year, when Jewish debts were to be remitted and Jewish slaves released. Exodus 23:10-11; Deuteronomy 15:1-3, 12-14,” Id. 5-6.

    Under Mosaic Law personal debts incurred to cover living expenses, as opposed to business debts incurred to generate profit, are to be forgiven by wiping the slate clean every seventh year.

    As Michael Hudson makes clear, Jesus rebelled against Rabbinical Judaism which was founded by Hillel to circumvent Mosaic Law by voiding this mandate of cyclical renewal via debt clean slates.

    Jew usury circumvents cyclical renewal thereby 1) permanently enslaving the goyim in debt; and 2) funding world dominance by Jew mendacious mediocrity.

    Zuckerberg with the help of their courts stole so blatantly they made their own movie celebrating it, Page stole from the alma mater, Sachs treacherously converted the entire economy of Russia to his fellows, and in each case, just to name the most visible, Jew usury profits were called upon to fund and grow the pilferers’ enterprises.

  147. Nancy says:
    @Fart Blossom

    I agree, and one wonders what a society/culture would be like if Christians actually lived per Jesus’ teaching… trusting, forgiving, sharing, cooperating, judging less and enjoying their brothers and sisters more, supporting a preferential option for the poor rather than the rich, understanding that, in a democracy, they bear responsibility for what that government does, valuing humility above hubris, etc, etc. However, unfortunately, power will always seduce.

    • Thanks: Fart Blossom
  148. Agent76 says:

    September 8, 2021 Jesus Repeatedly Broke the Law and Told Others to do the Same Thing – The Biblical Basis for Righteous Resistance

    Jesus was a lawbreaker. During the days he lived, only “priests” were legally allowed to heal anyone, or declare someone as “healed.” So when Jesus began his public ministry and arrived on the scene, he started healing everyone in defiance of the “health laws” of the day. He also continually broke the laws on the “Sabbath,” when no one was supposed to work.

    https://created4health.org/jesus-repeatedly-broke-the-law-and-told-others-to-do-the-same-thing-the-biblical-basis-for-righteous-resistance/

    Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus

    In the scriptures Jesus received the most opposition from the most religious people of his day. At it’s core Jesus’ gospel and the good news of the Cross is in pure opposition to self-righteousness/self-justification. Religion is man centered, Jesus is God-centered.

    • Replies: @RockaBoatus
  149. raga10 says:
    @gay troll

    What an absolute load of BS.

    Way to miss the point. The way I see it, the important part here is how we interpret the teachings attributed to Jesus, not whether he is a historical figure or not.

    To be clear, I’m an atheist – so why do I feel the need to weight in on this subject? Because there is this tug of war going on about the meaning of Jesus’ legacy between the right and the left; it’s not exactly new, but hey – it’s Christmas, right?

    To me this article is a very timely reminder that Jesus can be very reasonably interpreted as a leftist; you need to be much more creative with your interpretation to make him into a patron saint of the right – not that many evangelicals aren’t trying!

    • Agree: Agent76
  150. Nancy says:

    G.K. Chesterton “The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried.”

    • Thanks: IreneAthena
  151. Chris Moore says: • Website
    @jsinton

    “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s but render unto God that which is God’s” said Jesus when asked what to do about the Romans.

    Jesus was trying to teach the greedy and grasping ((Jews)) to quite worrying so much about the values and dictates of money of Empire, and concentrate on worship and Jewish values. As it turns out he was throwing pearls before swine, and Empire at the behest of corrupt ((Jews)) had him crucified.

    We should have learned from that to never trust ((Jews)) or Empire. Some of us did. Most swine didn’t, because they are swine.

  152. Rebel Roy says:
    @gay troll

    Question for the homo Jew:Do you get paid extra shekals for mocking God during Christmas?I’m guessing you volunteered to do it for free because you’re a worthless nothing.Good luck in eternal Hell.You have surely earned it.

  153. Hardrock says: • Website
    @RoatanBill

    I get the general idea…..but I expected a philosophical/ethical response rather than a political one.

    I mean the article focused on that.

    You did mention “working moral compass” and “the filth in the society” as causes of our current malaise and that’s kind of where I hoped you’d go.

    Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to bait you here; it’s just that my own beliefs are stretched pretty thin right now and I wondered how you pictured this world where people have a working moral compass in the absence of any kind of ethical/morality-based upbringing.

    Let me know if you have a replacement for what we have now.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  154. @jsinton

    Your comment nailed it. Too many people want to turn Jesus into their own social and political reformer without looking at what He really said and what His true purpose was. Those with eyes to see and ears to hear cannot miss it.

  155. @Agent76

    No, Jesus did not once ‘break The Law.’ What He did was break the law of the Pharisees which had perverted the Law’s original intention and meaning. He did not violate any of the 613 commandments of the law of Moses. The Pharisees had made the law utterly burdensome with their ‘traditions of the elders,’ and it is this that He ‘violated.’

    • Thanks: Agent76
    • Replies: @Agent76
    , @Sue Dunham
  156. @Felix Grossman

    No. That’s a principle of yoga. The amount of the material good given is not what counts in the force of a gift but the amount of attachment severed from. He doesn’t ask people to become poor but to realize that they are poor and lacking while they are most proud of their riches, and that realizing they are in reality lacking opens up to new unheard of riches, of better said freedoms.

    • Agree: Rich
  157. AaronB says:

    Finally an article on Unz that reflects moral sensibility, not the usual hate and demonizing.

    Perhaps Ron is tiring of promoting strife, discord, evil, and hatred, and is seeing the importance of unity, and developing a sense of common decency. The anger among the usual Unz commentariat at this article is a good sign.

    There is certainly a very strong political dimension to Jesus teaching, and an anti wealth and power teaching. And it’s quite true that the original message was heavily distorted down the centuries, shortly after his death. However, it survived as an inspiration in some form however overlaid with the usual nonsense this world lays over any message of true decency.

    My favorite, most rebellious, and most radical message of Jesus is his sermon about the birds and flowers – basically, don’t be preoccupied with the business of survival (food, shelter, etc). The source of most evil, greed, selfishness, natural destruction, is the fear of death and the preoccupation with survival.

    That is at the root of this world, and the most radical and goodness promoting message anyone can give is to lessen fear of death.

    This is why whatever one thinks of the severity of Covid, our reaction to it had been so negative.

  158. @Mefobills

    “The basis of my argument, and quoting the Harvard team, is that the words used in original Christianity, have been morphed to the present era and lost their original meaning. Hence the modern day confusion” – Well, I’m sure glad that you and “the Harvard team” have figured it all out.

    No, we haven’t lost the original meaning. I suggest you do a little study on the manuscript transmission of the Greek New Testament. One might argue that they don’t believe Jesus’ words nor that of the gospel writers, but to argue that the original meaning has been lost or confused – and therefore must be cleared up by me and my “Harvard team” – flies in the face that BOTH the Old and New Testaments have been accurately transmitted to us throughout the centuries.

    Sure, there are passages here and there that are in dispute, but the essential message of Jesus is there and readily available in our Bibles. Stop relying on higher critical scholars. Their arguments have already been refuted many years ago by a plethora of biblical scholars.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  159. @Kapyong

    It’s difficult to reconstruct the past, for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the unbridled mendacity and treachery of mankind, sorry to say. (Witness the world over the last couple of years, for example.) So we can’t argue over facts (real or imagined) very well at all. We’ve got to make do with our instincts and intuitions to a degree in developing that weltanschauung I mentioned. We do better, I am convinced, to the extent we believe in dark, elaborate conspiracies – again, sorry to say.

    A lot of things have been swept under the rug, there’s no doubt about that. For example, the War in Heaven. Darwinism and the Big Bang, counterpoints to that War, now reign supreme. To me, it just feels silly, and it’s troubling.

    That 700BC – 400AD comparative religion thing I referenced is kind of enjoyable. If you have the time to do some dabbling, you’d be surprised at the spirituality abounding in various guises throughout the Mediterranean Basin. I was particularly surprised to read a little about the Therapeauts, of which I had never heard. The Marcionites were of even greater interest.

    One final thought for the atheists out there: Once the sheer depth and breadth of pre-Renaissance spirituality comes into view, you may well come to believe you’re going to need a bigger boat (from “Jaws”). Some of you may scramble towards giving Dante, or even Bosch, a second look.

    Happy Holidays, as the saying goes.

  160. @Hardrock

    You apparently think that religion has something to do with morality. As far as I’m concerned, it’s only influence is negative.

    Religion likes to pretend that it’s all good all the time, but in practice, religion is blood thirsty, vindictive, judgmental, manipulative, predatory, etc.

    Christianity says to give Caesar things that are Caesar’s. That’s telling their flock to respect the single most successful criminal organization the world has ever known – government. Religion pits groups against each other with the jews and almost any other religion as an example. The christians gleefully join up to slaughter people they don’t know and who have never harmed them or the US. Read “The War Prayer” by Mark Twain and tell me you’re unmoved. The first time I read it, I cried at the inhumanity it describes. https://warprayer.org/

    Look at all the scandals the catholic church is always facing. Their orphanages, homes for unwed mothers (Magdalene Laundries), homes for troubled boys, the sex scandals, the money they rake in from the poorest countries to support a pope that lives in a palace in his won country along with the higher up sociopaths in costumes, etc. Religion is no exemplar for morality.

    By middle grammar school I knew I was an atheist without knowing of the word “atheist”. I watched the nuns and priests behind the scenes and compared their life to that of my parents who worked like slaves to raise their children. I got my moral compass from my parents and is why I refused to be drafted for Vietnam and refused alternative service. I knew right from wrong. Most didn’t.

  161. Agent76 says:
    @RockaBoatus

    Exactly the point that was made here. What He did was break the law of the Pharisees which had been perverted the Law’s original intention and meaning, and unachievable with out his death on the cross.

  162. The thing is, when you act like you’ve met ‘jesus’ or that ‘god’ told you to kill you neighbor, you end up in a looney bin.

    In my book, never follow jewish ‘leadership’ no matter what it’s wrapped in.

    A pig with lipsthtick, is still a walking piece of bake-on.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  163. @RockaBoatus

    He did not violate any of the 613 commandments of the law of Moses.

    He broke the sabbath, pointedly, and declared himself the lord of the sabbath, and he was also presumably a consumer of sausage, since he said a man cannot be defiled by what goes into his mouth.

    He directly contradicts Moses. Moses says you can get a writ of divorce. Jesus says you must stay wed forever. Moses says the adultress must be stoned. Jesus spares her life. Moses says Jews are the chosen tribe. Jesus says everyone can partake in the kingdom to come. Mosaic law, in short, is a roadmap to accumulating the wealth of all nations. Yet Jesus wants his followers to become penniless.

    Moses said take an eye for an eye, and Jesus said pluck out your own eye instead, and turn the other cheek. You and everyone else who claims that Jesus was there to uphold Mosaic law in the face of (((Jewish?))) degeneracy needs to get their spectacles checked. Jesus came to reject Mosaic law both in spirit and in letter. He denounces YHWH as the devil. He is Dionysius (IES) in disguise. He foretells the triumph of Rome.

    • Thanks: Hangnail Hans
  164. Hardrock says: • Website
    @RoatanBill

    Bill: You make assumptions. I’m trying to find the source of morality.

    You say, “I got my moral compass from my parents.”

    This is where I wanted to go with this! What did your parents teach you?

    If you read anything I’ve written, you see that I’ve struggled with my own upbringing….church twice every Sunday once on Wednesday. These beliefs are a nicely packaged philosophy for anyone who doesn’t want to take it any further. Right now, I’m pretty much a nihilist/antinatalist along the lines of Cioran but I resist the idea that all this is meaningless and has no purpose. I want purpose and meaning but must conclude that there is none.

    If everyone comes to that conclusion, are we back in the jungle living by the law of survival of the fittest or is the moral compass you learned from your parents something that can be useful to the unwashed masses?

    This may be it for me so….Merry Christmas! BTW, thanks for the link, I’m a big Twain fan….Letters from the Earth!!!

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  165. @Dumbo

    The Japanese love Christmas, even not being Christians.

    Hmmmm. A present to everyone here from the UNZ archives.

    ChuckOrloski says:
    July 28, 2020 at 3:06 pm GMT • 100 Words ⇑
    @Anonymous
    Hey anonymous 901!
    You likely know that the first atomic bomb test was done at Alamogordo, and it was called “Trinity.”
    Then, September 6, Catholic day of Transfiguration, the atomic bomb was dropped upon Hiroshima.
    The serial killer bomb fell from the womb of “Enola Gay,” named after Col. Tibbet’s mother. In contrast, Mary, The Theotokos, gave birth to the Giver of Life.

    As described in Consortium News, “For targeting purposes, the bombing crew used St. Mary’s Urakami Cathedral, the largest Christian church in East Asia. At 11:02 a.m., on Aug. 9, 1945, when the bomb was dropped over the cathedral, Nagasaki was the most Christian city in Japan.”
    Thanks, # 901, the world ought to know the satanic history of the making of the atomic bomb.

    https://www.unz.com/lromanoff/cia-project-mk-ultra/#comment-4063471

    Additionally the bomber crews were “Christians” and were blessed by a “Christan ” military chaplain before the mission flown on behalf of the mocking international banking rackets. Where was the guy with the whip when he was needed?

    • Replies: @Arthur MacBride
  166. Ed Case says:
    @Fart Blossom

    This Common Good sounds like a Trojan Horse.

    • Replies: @Fart Blossom
    , @lydia
  167. Hardrock says: • Website
    @RoatanBill

    When I gave thanks for the link….I had not read it yet but supposed it would be memorable, given the source. Now LMAO!!!!

    This may displace my current favorite war quote which is from Thomas Carlyle’s Sartor Resartus (at the top of my recommended reading).

    Carlyle says: Have not I myself known five hundred living soldiers sabered into crows’ meat for a piece of glazed cotton, which they call their flag; which had you sold it at any market-cross, would not have brought above three groschen?

  168. Seraphim says:
    @Saxo Philologus

    You shouldn’t waste your time arguing with ‘gay trolls’. The task of trolls is to smear with feces the walls of churches and wipe their asses with pages of holy books. Arguing with them is degrading.

    • Replies: @Sue Dunham
  169. @Dr. Fasci, America’s Doctor

    Oh brother. Tacitus was born 26 years after Jesus was supposedly crucified.

    So what? We have plenty of evidence of Pontius Pilate. Are you going to argue that Tacitus was wrong or was lying about Pilate having him executed? Or did Pilate not exist? Tacitus wrote all kinds of records and was not interested in promoting Christianity. Do you also reject Germania? It is pretty much our only source on pre-Roman German history. Why would we assume that he was lying about Christ and Pilate?

    Your invocation of Tacitus only supports my thesis that all biographical accounts of Christ can be traced back to the gospel of Mark.

    There is also the account of Josephus and it matches what we know about Herod.

    Historians don’t doubt that Jesus existed. There is actually more evidence of Jesus than hundreds of other historical figures. Entire empires destroyed by the Mongols under Khan for example are often spoken of by one or two people.

    Numerous events in history were only recorded by a single person. We don’t even know who created the Bayeux Tapestry but it is accepted as historically accurate because it matches oral accounts of the time. That depicted the Battle of Hastings which was in 1064. Historical writings were too easily destroyed before the advent of the printing press. Much of European history in fact was entirely verbal for thousands of years.

    • Replies: @Carroll price
  170. @RoatanBill

    You apparently think that religion has something to do with morality. As far as I’m concerned, it’s only influence is negative.

    Ok explain why Utah has high religiosity / low incarceration rates if that is the case.

    The christians gleefully join up to slaughter people they don’t know and who have never harmed them or the US. Read “The War Prayer” by Mark Twain and tell me you’re unmoved.

    Do you believe that humans were peaceful before religion?

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  171. @Hardrock

    The source of morality is common sense and the golden rule. Nothing else is required. The NAP is a more formalized golden rule, but essentially the same.

    I quit going to church in the 4th or 5th grade, much to my mother’s chagrin. I refused to be indoctrinated with what was obviously rubbish. I have no time for philosophers. They are just useless bullshit artists that produce nothing and expect to have others listen to them in open mouthed wonder and support them, much like useless priests.

    I’m an engineer. I see things as right or wrong, black or white on most issues. For me, it’s easy to make up my mind when I hear of something controversial. I’ve never had occasion to consider what would Plato or jesus or anyone else do. It simply never occurred to me and I’m 70 years old.

  172. https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/lifestyle-buzz/larry-david-calls-christmas-an-environmental-disaster/ar-AAS5oRX?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

    This is how Jews typically spend their time while taking a break from manipulating the stock market and instigating new wars for Gentiles to fight.

  173. @Seraphim

    You shouldn’t waste your time arguing with gay trolls…because you lose every time!

  174. Seraphim says:
    @Daniel Rich

    ”It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

  175. @John Johnson

    Much of European history in fact was entirely verbal for thousands of years.

    That’s why history should be taken with a grain of salt. Everyone re-telling a story, adds a juicy tidbit or two. This applies to Jews in particular who simply can’t resist lying as a pastime.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    , @Wokechoke
  176. @RockaBoatus

    Well said, and I completely agree. For you big city Californians who are worried about carrying concealed, if it helps any the California Penal Code only makes concealed carrying of a handgun a MISDEMEANOR!

    I would not follow that advice unless you are in a conservative county.

    Consider the scenario where you are involved in what you think is a clear self-defense case where you shoot a carjacker on video.

    You expect to get a misdemeanor charge for the gun at the most but some bitter liberal prosecutor has decided to up your charge to a felony. Don’t like it? Too bad get an attorney. After a bunch of court and attorney fees she offers to bring it back to a misdemeanor with a fine. The whole point was just to stick it to you by dragging the case out. I have seen this personally.

    Don’t underestimate how much some of these liberals will salivate over being able to stick it to a law abiding White guy (a Trump voter in their minds). They lock up Blacks and Hispanics all day and find it depressing. Liberals in the justice system are aware of reality and deeply resent it. A White guy with no criminal record is their chance to take revenge even if it is petty and has nothing to do with justice.

    I would be very hesitant to conceal carry in a place like LA without a permit. Definitely not in the Bay area. What you want to do is make up a business that puts you at risk. So when you apply for your permit you state your business case. There is no rule that your business has to make money. You can be a failed private detective.

    Or keep a handgun in your vehicle with a quick access case. You can carry the case around in a bag and the doesn’t count as being concealed.

    • Replies: @RockaBoatus
  177. Anon[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @gay troll

    Zionism is not and never was a defining feature of Christianity. In claiming to not be hasbara, you still promote hasbara propaganda. The defining feature of your posts: chutzpah

    • Replies: @Sue Dunham
  178. @Blodgie

    Agree on abstractions. Abstractions create obstructions to the full potential of our minds. The abstract tends towards the lineal and dives into “scientific materialism”, the primary fascination of Marxoids and similar left-brain dominated types.

    So those who live in a world of abstractions, such as the clock, the calendar and the coin of the realm, exist in a false reality. They are engaged with only half a brain, the left side. Without fully engaging the right-brain, the intuitive, the mindfulness of connection with all that is ,they are actually operating with only half their brain. When only half one’s brain is engaged, the mind becomes clouded and fogged-in.

    Should we describe these people as half-wits?

  179. Iris says:
    @jsinton

    Jesus was very careful not to be a political or social revolutionary. His message was of spiritual renewal and how you got it. Your message is dangerous and blasphemous.

    The Lord Jesus Christ brought about the greatest ethical and social, hence political, revolution that ever transformed the life of Humankind.

    Before Him and his message appearing, our world, the ancient Mediterranean world, was sullied by the filth of the Roman Empire, which enslaved millions, organised child slave prostitution as an industry, had human beings murdered in amphitheatres by wild animals for fun, destroyed entire nations and tortured their rebellious leaders into slow and sadistic deaths for the example.

    Jesus Christ reversed all that and brought about a universal ethical system where human beings, life, the weak and the downtrodden, were valued over brutal force and wealth. He took us from the darkest and most depraved barbarity, to Civilisation, for there is no civilisation without ethics.

    The fact we can’t grasp anymore the importance of the change he made only reflect that people in the West are back to barbarity, just unaware of it.

    • Agree: ivan
    • Thanks: Arthur MacBride
  180. Jesus was not preoccupied with individual “sin” but with systemic injustice, in opposition to the commercializing empire of his time. The historical Jesus disclosed by contemporary scholarship appears to be fundamentally the same as the Jesus who is preached and practiced in the Catholic Worker movement, for example.

    But the historical Jesus couldn’t do anything about social problems of the time. Jewish elites either ignored him or targeted him for destruction. Radical Jews, the resistance, regarded him too pacifist in attitude. And Romans saw him as disturbing the peace. So, if the historical Jesus was really out to change society, he had few cards to play with. He wasn’t set on building up a resistance army or preaching a gospel that might unite all non-Romans against Rome or all the poor against the rich. He preached, and his words got through to some people but not enough to generate a force that could deal with the powers of the time(or thereafter). In other words, anarcho-pacifism only goes so far. Because the historical Jesus’s vision was too unrealistic, his only hope for immortality and eternal glory was to serve as conduit between Earth and Heaven, between man and God. His justice could prevail only in the divine realm.

    And the parallels between his conflict with Rome and our own with imperial America are striking indeed.

    In part, yes. But the US isn’t only about military and financial power but about soft power. In that sense, the christological spirit is still very much alive. Anyway, what Roman Imperialism and Christianity had in common was the ambition to conquer or convert the world. No wonder they fused into a singularity, the Holy Roman Template. Without Christianity, Romans had no moral or spiritual justification for conquering and ruling over other lands. It was just about might-is-right. But once the Roman Empire became Christian, it could morally/spiritually justify its conquests on divine redemptive grounds. Military Imperialism merged with Spiritual Imperialism. Not only conquer lands and bodies but conquer hearts and minds, aka convert souls.

    The Roman Empire was overly ambitious and conquered more than it could swallow, eventually leading the empire to being conquered by those it conquered. And Christianity was overly sanctimonious, preachy, and idealistic in its vision of salvation. No wonder Roman militarism and Christian sacralism needed one another. Without Christian moral/spiritual justification, Roman conquests could only seem brazenly aggressive and bloody. But then, without Roman militarism, Christianity could hardly survive as its social formula was useless in the real world. Most Christianity could offer in real terms was relief. It was balm to the bat.

    Robert Roth talks about free healthcare and stuff, but Jesus was a miracle worker according to the Gospels. So, He could dispense free medicine because He only needed to touch people. But can we expect people who went to medical school for 8 yrs to offer their services for free? And even if paid by the state, that means lots of tax money, which comes from private enterprise fueled by ‘greed’ and ‘materialism’. Get rid of capitalist incentives, and there is no tax base, and then there are no state programs. This is why communism failed. On paper, so much was ‘free’, but the system hardly produced enough goods and services, and whatever was available was low quality.

    While all of us are agreed on the need for the state and social programs for the needy, the surplus goods and services for the less fortunate are generated by the majority population that must be engaged in competitive behavior and productive work. Jesus and the Disciples were a poor model for real-world people and economics. Jesus began as a carpenter but spent His final years wandering around and preaching, i.e. producing nothing and living off others. He did offer free healthcare but only because He could touch-and-heal. He did, at one time, provide an audience with free fish and chips but only because He could do magic for real. If we can call snap our fingers and get what we want, that could be the End of History.

    Without the backing of Roman Might, Christianity simply had no chance of survival. It’s like the defund-the-police idealism of replacing cops armed with guns & nightsticks with social workers with smiley faces and helpful advice; it sure hasn’t done any good. Maybe, it was meant well, but it ignored the truth, which is Negroes are violent because evolution made them that way. In other words, race-ism is real. Races are different, and the tougher/more aggressive Negroes will act crazier if flattered and elevated to divine cult status.
    So, guess what’s happening now. Even the ‘blue’ cities are re-funding the police and reinstituting tougher controls.

    [MORE]

    We must distinguish the naive from the cynical in this equation. While some ‘blue city’ dummies really swallowed ‘wokeness’ whole hog, others knew all about the black problem and race-ist roots of crime BUT pushed the BS anyway just to recruit Negroes in 2020 against Trump. This is why it’s not enough to Re-fund the Police. If police power is to be restored, it must be accompanied with speaking-the-truth: Blacks Kill and Police Protect. If the police is restored while the BLM narrative is upheld, ‘blue city’ scumbags will get to have the cake and eat it too. Their narrative will still define our worldview while they once again enjoy relative social safety under revamped police protection. If they really believe in BLM, then they must stick with defund-the-police and suffer the consequences because BLM says blacks are innocent angels being killed by ‘racist’ white police. They must bear the burden of pushing such grievous lies.

    However, if they now believe More Police is necessary to reduce crime(most of it black), then they must admit they were wrong, publicly disavow BLM & the Floyd Cult, and get on their knees in apology to the whole nation.

    The worst possibility is for them to stick with the BLM narrative and Floyd cult while surreptitiously restoring police power so they can have safe streets again. Such hypocrisy isn’t different from the whole history of Christianity. In truth, the preaching of Jesus cannot work in the real world. Any society that follows the sermons of Jesus, radical or spiritual, will fall sooner than later. And Christian civilization realized this, just like the character in the Luis Bunuel film NAZARIN realizes the practical impossibility of Christianity. But, did Christians admit that Jesus’s teachings are utterly unworkable in the real world? No, they kept with the Christian theology and narrative while resorting to militarism and materialism to secure and expand their civilizations(later empires) to great power and reach.

    Some conzos are gloating that ‘blue cities’ are restoring the police, but they fail to see that this is a win-win for the proggies. Proggies don’t admit their wrongs and discard their false narrative but, instead, maintain it all the while implementing policies that go against its underlying premise. So, even while ‘blue cities’ hire more cops to crack down on black crime, they maintain the facade of Negro Innocence. It’s like someone preaching against capitalism while practicing it to get rich.

    In a way, this is precisely why the BLM and other lunacies of 2020 happened. With rising crime rates and deteriorating urban conditions from the 60s to the early 90s, even the Democrats took up law-and-order policies and cracked down hard on crime, which was largely black. But, while effective ‘anti-black’ policies were instituted, the narrative kept with Negro Nobility. So, people like Bill Clinton and Michael Bloomberg got tough with black crime but were hardly candid about the racial nature of the crime. And even though urban libby-dibs benefitted a great deal from reduced crime, they used media and academia power to maintain the Noble Negro myth and Emmitt Till cult, in part to distract black attention from the ‘anti-black’ policies favored by white/Jewish urbanites.
    Thus, the great reduction in black crime came to be misunderstood by so many people. Even though black crime went down due to tougher policing and increased incarceration, the Noble Negro cult convinced many people that crime rates went down because Negroes are plenty peaceable; and because Negroes are so peaceable, it made no sense to lock up so many blacks. Then, the problems between blacks and cops(or whites) must always be the fault of cops(or whites). And so, enough ‘woke’ dummies signed onto the BLM program and believed holy blacks will behave in exemplary manner with the reduction of the police power that stands as symbol of ‘systemic racism’. But guess what happened? Negroes took it as green light to run riot, loot, pillage, rape, and murder. And drive like crazy. Being drunk on Negrohol is more dangerous than alcohol.

    The ONLY way to prevent this madness from happening again is if honest people call out on ‘blue cities’ that are restoring the police. Pressure them to admit they were wrong and confess their BS about black nobility and innocence. Otherwise, they will benefit from anti-BLM policies of increased police power while also collecting virtue-signaling points with BLM platitudes. They will have the protection of the ‘white racist police’ from black thugs all the while sanctifying black thugs as saints. (Why would any white person want to put his life on the line as a police officer in ‘blue’ areas to defend libby-libs who are so mendacious and hypocritical? What a bunch of white dummies or whummies. It’s like all those whummies in the US military who serve in Wars for Israel when, in fact, most Jews despise and hate them and push policies for the Great Replacement.)

    Why did the Cultural Revolution happen in China? Under a honest system, it could never have happened. During the Great Leap Forward, Mao’s policies led to the deaths of tens of millions. Mao should have been deposed or even executed for his crimes against humanity. Had his policies continued, many more millions, even tens of millions, would have died. But thankfully, Liu Shao-Chi and his right-hand man Deng Xiaoping restored the economy with more moderate and pragmatic policies. China was saved. Now, a sane and honest China would have respected and obeyed Liu and Deng over Mao, who would have been utterly discredited. But even as China benefitted from the economic recovery made possible by Liu and Deng, it kept with the Mao cult of personality. Mao was still the official object of adulation and reverence. So, countless youths were still educated to look up to Mao as a god even though the monster was responsible for the deaths of tens of millions. Even though all Chinese benefitted from Liu and Deng’s policies that reversed Mao’s madness, they still regarded Mao as the fount of all wisdom and justice. So, when Mao proclaimed the Cultural Revolution and reviled Liu and Deng as ‘bourgeois capitalist-roaders’, all the mindless Red Guard minions wreaked havoc on the entire nation in Mao’s name. And Liu and Deng, who’d done so much to revive the economy, were persecuted terribly. Mao benefitted from the economic recovery that reversed his policies that had done so much harm, but the power of narrative & cult prevailed over the reality and truth. It seems incredible that Chinese youths were so blindly loyal to Mao, the killer of millions, and so hostile toward Liu and Deng, the very people who’d brought China back from the brink. What does that tell you about the power of the narrative over reality?

    Allowing ‘blue cities’ to restore policing while keeping with the BLM narrative would be like China benefitting from Liu/Deng’s policies while sticking with the cult of Mao’s infallibility and awesomeness. Such paves the way for mass amnesia, and it’d be a matter of time before cynical Jewish elites once again turn on Negro rage upon cities for short-term political ends. This is why it’s foolish to gloat about ‘blue cities’ reversing their crime policy UNLESS one Names the Negro. The reason why certain areas need lots of policing is because blacks commit lots of crime, and this is the result of race, not history or ‘systemic racism’. Blacks evolved to act more like hunter-warriors. The real truth is Inherent Race-ism than ‘systemic racism’. Racial differences are real and embedded in the DNA. This is why white Christians have less to fear from white Muslims or white atheists than from black Christians. If the police is brought back without Naming the Negro, the United States of Amnesia will just set itself up for more BLM outbreaks in the future(when Jewish elites feel like it).

    It’s the same with all these Wars for Israel. While it’s encouraging that a good number of goyim have wised to the realization that these wars don’t serve American Interests, they still haven’t gone to the root of the problem, which is why US foreign policy is still as it was under Clinton and Bush II. These so-called ‘Neocon’ policies are emanations of Jewish Supremacism. If there’s a dead rat stinking up the place, it is not enough to finally admit to the stench. It will go away ONLY IF people find the decaying rat and have it removed from the premises. After the Great Leap Forward, the big fat rat Mao wasn’t removed and disgraced. Even as his policies were reversed on pragmatic and rational grounds, his cult status remained untouched. So, when the Chinese were once again eating regularly and not starving en masse, they looked to Mao as the guiding light, and all hell broke loose.
    So, regardless of whether a system is ‘rightist’ or ‘leftist’, unexposed lies prepare the way for great woes to befall society. It was the failure to Name the Jewish Power and to Name the Black Thuggery that led to the ‘woke’ madness of 2020. Even though Jewish Power has been most harmful to the social/national fabric and even though black thuggery has been most damaging to social peace, nearly all libby-dibs and conzo-wonzos kept up with the Jew-worshiping and Negro-idolizing mantras. Even those who opposed Wars for Israel dared not name the Jewish Power. Even those who despaired of crime rates dared not name the Black Thuggery.

    Likewise, we need to speak some truth about Christianity. If Christianity is about spirituality and Heaven, that’s a matter of faith and beyond rational discussion. Being a non-believer myself, I’ll leave it up to the Faithful to decide. In turn, the faithful should leave us alone.

    Then, there are Christians who believe in good work and saving souls. The problem is Christian Economics cannot generate wealth, and so, Christian Good Work depends on donations from the rich who gained wealth by ‘ungood’ means. For the rich, donations are a way to morally launder some of their ill-gotten loot. For the do-gooders, their work relies on funds from the swinish of the world. Roth speaks of free medicine, but medicines don’t grow on trees or fall from the sky. They have to be produced, and it takes a great deal of research and expense to create them. Without material incentives, who’s going to work in the industry? So, even ‘free medicine’ depends on competition fueled by ‘greed’.

    True, Big Pharma today is more like Big Harma to maximize profits, but this owes in large part to ethno-monopoly of Jewish Power that led to Jews in government, media, medical industry, and courts to wink-wink collude for tribal interests. Especially as Jewish culture is lacking in a sense of honor and magnanimity(regarded as stupid, like the hare resting while the tortoise passes it by), Jews are likely to be more shameless in their weasely intra-tribal dealings(as is also the case among Southern Italians and Greeks who grew cynical from too many invasions and ensuing diversity). Jews do have a sense of Tikkun Olam, but it’s really a manipulation of moralism and do-goodery to maximize Jewish Power. For example, whereas many White Christians faced up to ‘white guilt’ and confessed their ‘historical sins’, Jewish moralism is usually about blaming OTHERS and making them atone for whatever their transgressions might have been while Jews themselves, as the holy-holocaust people, sit up high as judge and jury. It’s about Jews shitting on the moral failings of goyim, especially whites, not about Jews facing up to their own failings. It’s about berating white role in the black slave trade while totally ignoring Jewish role in the slavery, black and white. It’s about beating on Apartheid South Africa while either defending Zionist Israel or pretending to be ‘even-handed’. So, when whites lord over blacks, ‘there is no two sides, and ONLY ONE SIDE is right’, but when Jews lord over Palestinians, ‘Gee, maybe we should hear both sides to the point of moral paralysis’, which favors Jewish Power since it has the upper-hand over Palestinians.

    It’s about time we admit Christianity doesn’t work in the real world. Everyone with sense knows this, but Christians still pretend that Jesus is a guiding light in the real world, which turns them into hypocrites. These people cling to guns while worshiping the Messiah who preached unto His flock to ‘turn the other cheek’. For these people, ‘socialism’ is the dirtiest word even though Christian economics is far closer to socialism than to capitalism.

    But then, it’s misguided to assume Jesus preached “poor = good”. He understood poor people can have wicked hearts, and rich people can have good hearts. Naturally, He sympathized with the poor who were more likely to suffer deprivations. But a poor person could desire lots of wealth and power. Look at many poor Negroes. Though on the bottom, their minds are filled with fantasies of being rich athletes or millionaire rappers with gold-plated guns and driving around in limos with da ho’s. This is why Social Christianity is dumb. It assumes that the poor are the salt of the earth. It assumes a scummy poor person who cheats and steals is better than a principled rich person who made his fortune honestly. It’s moral determinism based on economics.

    At least according to the Gospels, Jesus saw poverty as a good thing. Indeed, the poor should accept their lot as ideal and not complain. It’s like Hindu yogis bid farewell to worldly possessions and live in pious poverty. They don’t complain because their minds aren’t wed to material things. Now, this isn’t to say Jesus was for abject poverty where people don’t even have clothes to wear or food to eat. But He thought people shouldn’t have more than the most basic necessities because the desire for more turns man’s attention away from God toward materialism, and that only leads to greater wealth, power and abuse of power, and more hierarchy.

    Ideally, man should give away all his property until he is left only with the absolute basic necessities, and he should never want more than that. The problem is many poor people happen to be ‘greedy sons of bitches’ who just happen to be down on their luck. After all, why do all those poor people come to America? They dream of becoming rich. If they want to live in virtuous poverty, why not just stay where they are and make peace with what little they have? Jesus understood this. Poor people may be deserving of sympathy for their hardship, but being poor doesn’t mean one’s heart is pure. And the opposite is also true. A rich person can have a good heart. It’s like the instance when Jesus meets a compassionate and socially-minded rich man who gives away a big portion of his wealth. Jesus recognizes the goodness of his heart, but the rich man is still spiritually disadvantaged because, in order to remain rich, he has to prioritize ‘greed’ over virtue. Making money comes first and doing good comes second as mere byproduct of the wealth he earns. Therefore, in order for him to be truly good, he must give away not just a portion but ALL of his wealth until he has only the minimum left for survival. Then, he will be equal with the poor. He will be a brother.

    Now, as economic theories go, we can all agree that Christonomics 101 is bonkers, at least for the modern world. Perhaps in a mostly agricultural society with a much smaller population, Christonomics can be practiced as a kind of proto-Amish-ism. But in the modern world that depends so much on competition, innovation, and incentives, its only value is to virtue-signal, very much like this article by Roth.

    Roth says Early Christianity arose as a resistance movement in defiance to Roman Imperialism. But then, why did it become a partner-in-crime with the empire? Because both were overly ambitious in trying to conquer all the world. Trying to save the whole world is as futile as trying to rule over it. That’s where military imperialism and spiritual missionarism both fail and drive the world crazy.

    It’s true that people should work for social justice(though not of the idiotic ‘woke’ kind), but this is best done on the national scale within a racial family. It’s so difficult to manage and balance the affairs of one nation. Then, what is the likelihood of saving the entire world? India, for example, should focus on cleaning up the shit from half the population taking a dump outdoors. Who are these Hindus to be preaching to the world about ‘injustice’ when they can’t even properly clean the mountains of shit in their own country?

    Even communism operated along national lines. Russia managed its own communism, and China its own. Even within the Soviet Empire, nations like Poland, East Germany, and Hungary had considerable leeway in managing their own affairs(as long as they didn’t defy Soviet military authority).
    Also, the fall of communism proved that moral incentives aren’t enough. And even though workers are important, they are not saints or the salt of the earth. Workers could be lazy, drunk, or downright stupid, as many in communist nations(and US labor unions) were. Also, the business class has the talent and skills necessary to run a modern economy. But as capitalist systems have shown, the culture goes to hell when the shallow business class take control of everything. (Consider the eternal conflict between studio execs and the real artists in Hollywood.) So, all things need to be balanced, and that means Fascism and National Socialism(minus the cult of personality and racial scapegoating) are most ideal.

    So, instead of a Manichean division of the world between good/light and bad/darkness, it’s best to balance the various forces. Nothing is entirely good, nothing is entirely bad. The problem isn’t race-ism but radical racism. The problem isn’t socialism but radical socialism(aka communism). The problem isn’t capitalism but radical capitalism, or libertarianism. The problem isn’t statism but deep-statism, or the gangstate. The problem isn’t individualism but atomizing ultra-individualism.

    If we say ‘this’ is good and ‘that’ is bad, we must accept even the bad stuff of ‘this’ while rejecting even the good stuff of ‘that’. But with fascism and/or national socialism, we can take the good of ‘this’ and the good of ‘that’ while rejecting the bad of both.
    We need this balance in the form of fascism because the supposedly ‘liberal democratic’ system has a strange way of making people forget that they benefit from a mixed economy. It should be obvious to anyone with even two brain cells that the US gained a great deal from the New Deal Era, from a mixed-economy system that relied on both capitalism and socialism. But given the idiotic party politics, the discourse is often along the line of cops-and-robbers or cowboys-and-indians.

    Conservatives have gained a great deal from socialist policies, but they’ve been led to harp about ‘big government’. Liberals reaped great rewards from capitalist enterprise, but so many proggy types see business as the enemy; they demand ‘free stuff’ without ever realizing everything ‘free’ must be created and paid for by someone else. Fascism would slap idiots on both sides with the cold hard truth that a rational system needs both, capitalism and socialism, just as it needs both traditionalism and liberalism, as well as both spiritualism and materialism. But so often, we have conzos bitching about ‘socialism’ and we have proggies bitching about ‘greed’ as if businessmen do nothing but act scrooge-like.

    Granted, there may be more promise on the conservative side as a kind of synergy has taken place between big business and big government, both of them heavily Democratic. As a result, the so-called ‘left’ is more likely to throw hissy fits over tranny-stuff and 50 gender pronouns than about urgent economic issues; also, as big business is now on their side, the proggies are far less likely to be useful critics of Wall Street, Big Pharma, and even the Military-Industrial-Complex as Pentagon raises the LGBTQ banner — wars are now cool among the proggies for spreading the gayspel of globo-homo.

    Also, big business now works with the deep state to reduce patriots to penury. This means elements on the right will have to rely more on the government for survival. It also means they can no longer afford the luxury of regarding capitalism and big business as their natural allies, as the ‘conservative’ forces of history. This means conservatives have a real chance of taking on the role of dissidents. On the other hand, given that one of the dominant qualities of the conservative mindset is a girlish deference to power and success, it’s just as likely that the great majority of conzos will go into cucky-wuck mode of most of the lamo GOP.

    The real issue isn’t capitalism vs socialism, or hierarchy vs equality. Both capitalism and socialism are valuable and have their uses. Hierarchy is natural, but human nature also works to level inequalities. It’s there in nature itself. If a polar bear is feasting on a beached whale, other animals try to take a piece. John Wayne said it was ‘unfair’ that American Indians should have all this land in the New World. White people deserved a piece of it too.

    The real issue is the problem of ABUSE as anything can be abused. Capitalism is often abusive, and socialism is often abused by its beneficiaries. But because party politics divides people into opposing camps, the pro-capitalist forces have long ignored abuses on their own side while pointing to the abuses of the socialist side, and vice versa. But under a united fascist system where everyone acknowledges the need for both capitalism and socialism, people can focus on the abuses regardless of the -ism. Too often in a ‘liberal democracy’, the so-called conservatives will overlook the abuses of the business class and blame the government for everything. And so-called ‘liberals’ will pretend the problem is always not enough programs and spending. So, never mind all the resources stolen by leeches who feed off the system. They just demand MORE.

    But then, both pro-capitalist conzos and pro-socialist proggies can be equally obtuse about certain problems, as if ANYTHING can be solved ideologically one way or the other. So, the likes of Rand Paul seem to think ANYTHING, even Detroit, can be fixed with ‘free enterprise’, while fans of Bernie Sanders seem to think ANYTHING can be solved with more programs. But some problems defy ideological solutions. What do black areas in ‘blue states’ and ‘red states’ have in common? They are BLACK, and that means they have plenty of Negroes who evolved to possess genes that, once unloosed upon society, have the tendency to run civilization into the ground. There is no ideological fix for the Negro Problem. If Jesus were to return today and preach among the Negroes to stop acting like a bunch of thug hoodlums, they’d beat and kill him 1000x worse than what Jesus got in Mel Gibons’s stupid movie. Also, blacks would feel no guilt and just say, “dat ni**a(Jesus) wuz racist and said shit and got what he deserved… sheeeiiit.”

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  181. @Dr. Fasci, America’s Doctor

    In the gospels it was said that Jesus was born when shepherds tended their flocks by night. In ancient Palestine, there was only one time of year where tending flocks by night was practiced—lambing season. Also we must note that lambing season occurs during the month of Pisces, not on the fifth day of Capricorn.

    One of our most negative heritages from Imperial Rome is that they fucked with the natural, organic calendar, the Zodiacal one. Pre-Imperial Rome held to a different calendar. This is readily proven by our months of September (7th month) October (8) November (9) and December, the tenth month—as in decimal systems.

    So what we can take from all this is that the purported birth of Jesus was during the period ranging from late February up to the 19th of March—lambing season in ancient Palestine when the shepherds tended their flocks by night for a very good reason. Lambs were considered as the precious produce of the flock and they needed to be protected from wolves and other predators.

    But Imperial Rome had it’s way and following the time of Constantine, the arrangements of the church calendar in order to induce the country-folk (the Pagani) to join up with Holy Mother Church,
    ; the Church fathers greased the skids by taking over the ancient Roman festival of Sol Invictus (the ceremony and rituals of the “Unconquered Sun” (Sol Invictus).

    Sol Invictus happens to be the fourth day after the Winter Solstice, the shortest day of the year. On the 25th of December (the 5th day of Capricorn) the sun begins its ascendance back to its zenith, the Summer Solstice on the 21st of June, the longest day of the year and logically, four days later, that zenith begins to fade.

    No religious ceremonies and rituals can be considered as genuinely true, if one of their two primary holidays happens to be a made-up falsehood.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  182. Anon[271] • Disclaimer says:

    Jesus would like Alex Berenson, Steve Kirsch, Paul Gottfried, Israel Shamir, and Ron Unz.

    The Kagans, Kristols, and Wolfowitzes……..not so much.

  183. @Anon

    On the contrary, Christianity posits that Zion exists in heaven. Furthermore, recidivist Christians fall back into petty real estate obsessions. They have been promised a kingdom just like the Jews.

    • Replies: @anon
  184. @John Johnson

    Utah is largely a homogeneous society, much like Norway, Denmark, Sweden, etc, at least before the invaders changed their crime rates. When people meet, they don’t take inventory about the other persons religion, political persuasion or anything else not visually or otherwise obvious.

    People come in all varieties and probably have for as long as man has walked the earth. Religion has played a significant and unwholesome part in history with religious wars, persecutions, etc, so the religious “leaders” were scumbags just like the political class of today since they were the political class of their day.

    In general, religion doesn’t impart any moral influence either way today in most 1st world countries. Larger and larger percentages of people claim no religious affiliation or are agnostic or atheist. As intelligence and education increases, religiosity decreases.

    How do you explain the vast majority of US military volunteers are christians while they’ve murdered millions in recent decades? Note that not a single engagement was defensive. Every one was offensive and the christians were the majority doing the killing. Do you claim that’s a moral thing to do?

  185. For the last time that I tell you, If you were to know God, there would be no question in your heart who was God. If God was/Is with you there is no wondering who God may be. If God is with you there is no question. When your heart and door are open, when your heart accepts God in Gods glory there is no question where God is and who God is is irrelevant. I Love God, and I am so happy to have God within me, it’s a beautiful thing.
    Merry Christmas

    • LOL: RoatanBill
  186. ivan says:
    @R.G. Camara

    Gore was famously homosexual, that is what much of the anti-Christianity is about. But unlike the perverts of today, he had the intellectual integrity to know that the Bible is dead set against homosexual conduct. It is strange to me as a Christian, that the so-called successors of the “Chosen People”, the Ashkenazim, are in the lead promoting sexual deviancy at every turn, not just in their own lives, but by being at the forefront of destroying anything that comes in the way of deviancy. Which all by itself proves that these pretenders are altogether of another race from those Jews of the era of Jesus.

    • Replies: @Wyatt
  187. ivan says:
    @R.G. Camara

    A very good compendium on the historicity of Jesus is to be found in

    https://historyforatheists.com/category/historical-jesus/

    The writer himself is not a Christian, but as an historian he has done yeoman service
    by showing that the evidence for Jesus’s existence exceed that for some historical figures
    whose existence we take for granted.

    • Thanks: R.G. Camara
    • Replies: @Zachary Smith
    , @lydia
  188. @Carroll price

    Much of European history in fact was entirely verbal for thousands of years.

    That’s why history should be taken with a grain of salt. Everyone re-telling a story, adds a juicy tidbit or two. This applies to Jews in particular who simply can’t resist lying as a pastime.

    A battle described by one person on the side of the victor should certainly be taken with a grain of salt.

    However there are more historical references to Jesus than Socrates but I see no reason to doubt the existence of either.

    The writings of either could not be faked by the average person. They exist as more than historical references. Someone as equally talented but completely immoral would have to invent them. It just doesn’t make any sense. Man is too ego driven to create geniuses to which he does not ascribe his own work.

  189. America’s Christians with their comical ideological polarizing and thorough brainwashing must be asking themselves a no less comical question: if Jesus were alive (is he really? If yes, where is he?) would he be a Republican or Democrat? And if he were none of the above, he would surely be considered and treated as an apostate.

    • Agree: showmethereal
  190. ivan says:
    @Anne Lid

    Christ was fathered by the Holy Spirit. Both the genealogies show that God fulfilled his Promise to the Jews, about the Messiah coming from Abraham’s seed, but in a manner of His own choosing, which is always the way it is with God. Already beginning by @500 BC, the collective mind of men, was receptive to the idea of a Universal God. There were similar movements, among Greek philosophers, the Buddhists and others. One branch of Jewry clung on to the idea that they were the “Chosen People”. Christ put paid to that by warning those Jews that God if he so chose could turn the very stones into the “Chosen People”. The other branch which was open to Salvation for All, became the Christians.

    • Replies: @Iris
  191. Chris Moore says: • Website
    @Sue Dunham

    He directly contradicts Moses. Moses says you can get a writ of divorce. Jesus says you must stay wed forever. Moses says the adultress must be stoned. Jesus spares her life. Moses says Jews are the chosen tribe. Jesus says everyone can partake in the kingdom to come. Mosaic law, in short, is a roadmap to accumulating the wealth of all nations. Yet Jesus wants his followers to become penniless.

    Fundamentalist Islam is more in line with Moses’ teachings/demands. Is that a “roadmap to accumulating the wealth of the nations”? I don’t know, but it seems to me if Moses wanted to accumulate the wealth of the nations he would have approved of the Golden Calf Hebrews, or at least tolerated them as clever tricksters who could steal goyim money by hook or by crook, like the ((Jewish)) grifters and banksters of today.

    In short, Moses took his religion and nation deadly seriously, as do certain fundamentalist Muslims.

    Jesus was much more fair-minded and reasonable about most things, but took the sanctity of Jewish marriage very seriously. I think he took the concept of family very seriously, which is why Christian nations have been historically built around a strong middle class, as opposed to the oligarchy of non-Christian nations, because Christianity is about the health of the extended family.

    No question that if you’re for a strong and necessarily moral (in order to maintain its integrity) middle class as opposed to a hierarchy or an oligarchy, you’re pro-Jesus and pro-traditional Christianity.

    That’s one reason why these neocons and liberals and ((Jews)) are so anti-Russian/Orthodox, to the point of Bolshevik mass murder and neo-Bolshevik willingness to take them to nuclear brinksmanship.

    Yes, they’re that crazy, fanatical and sick when it comes to worship of filthy lucre and the Western/((Jewish)) bankster Ponzi scheme. They’ve got a sickness about money and power that Moses recognized as stiff-necked evil, which he punished them severely for.

    I think his attitudes were crucial to the development of Christianity, but not the be-all-and-end-all that, for example, fundamentalist Muslims practice.

    As for ((Jews)) and their stooges? I’m not sure exactly what they practice, but it bears a close resemblance to organized schizophrenia.

  192. Wokechoke says:
    @jsinton

    The persona of Jesus is immensely disruptive. The most un Jew like Jew I’ve ever read about. Manual worker, free medical healing, doesn’t say much in his trial, against divorce.

    • Replies: @lydia
  193. Wokechoke says:
    @Carroll price

    More likely that Mark was a Greek who rubbed shoulders with Jews and was reporting the goings on in Jerusalem. It reads like a reporter seconded to the capital of the financial markets who encounters and hears about a troublesome personality the Jews disposed of using the Romans as shabbos goy.

  194. Wokechoke says:
    @R.G. Camara

    “Josephus explained the reason why every stone was overturned in the city (including those that made up the very foundations). The Jews were accustomed to hide their gold and other valuables in the walls of their homes. The Temple itself was also the treasury of the Jewish nation. [JW 6.5.2] When the fires consumed the whole of the Temple and City, the gold melted and descended into the cracks and crevices of the stone foundations. In order to recover this melted gold, the Tenth Legion had the Jewish captives uproot every stone of the Temple and the whole of the City. So much gold was discovered in this fashion that the price of the metal in the Roman Empire went down half of its pre-war value. [JW 6.6.1] This action of looking for gold by overturning the stones (including all foundation stones) left Jerusalem as a vast quarry of dislodged and uprooted stones in a state of unrecognized shambles.”

    The yids had accumulated so much gold in Jerusalem that Titus sacking and ransacking released enough of the metal to half the price of gold in the empire. Fucking hoarders.

  195. Rich says:
    @RoatanBill

    You are incorrect. Just because someone calls himself a Christian, doesn’t make him a Christian. If I call myself a Stoic, but cry and whine when I get a paper cut, am I a Stoic? If I say I’m a Jainist but stop at McDonald’s for a quarter pounder every night, am I a Jainist? Of course, a person can always repent and become a Christian in good standing. Part of the beauty of the Faith.

    • LOL: RoatanBill
    • Replies: @lydia
  196. @RoatanBill

    Utah is largely a homogeneous society, much like Norway, Denmark, Sweden, etc, at least before the invaders changed their crime rates.

    That is true but they are also highly religious so religion is obviously not increasing their crime rates, correct? If religion causes immorality then shouldn’t they have higher crime rates when compared to say homogeneous states that are protestant/secular mixed?

    Would you rather have Mormon White or non-religious Black neighbors?

    Religion has played a significant and unwholesome part in history with religious wars, persecutions, etc, so the religious “leaders” were scumbags just like the political class of today since they were the political class of their day.

    I see no reason to believe that religion causes war instead of man causing war and using religion as a justification like any other. The Communists have fought bloody wars all over the planet in the belief that eliminating religion will (eventually) lead to peace and equality. That never happened. Both Marx and Stalin were atheists that supported killing people in the name of a materialistic ideology. History is also rife with bloody leaders like Hitler that didn’t share their true views on the religion of the day with the public.

    Chimpanzees will rape, rob, kill and cannibalize even when they have ample territory and food supplies. You believe that man has only engaged in his dark side because of religion? The commonly secular view of man only having a dark side because of religion doesn’t make any sense. It’s secular egalitarian wishful thinking that wants to believe man is some naturally peace pipe smoking earth lover and then religion/society comes along and ruins him.

    Man is built for war.

    Every one was offensive and the christians were the majority doing the killing. Do you claim that’s a moral thing to do?

    The religion of the soldiers of the frontlines is largely irrelevant. Roman centurions pre-dated Christ by hundreds of years and would shove a spear entirely through your throat as if they were doing any other job. Whether or not they prayed to Zeus earlier means nothing more than if a wood cutter did the same.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  197. @RoatanBill

    As intelligence and education increase

    Are you sure about that? Explain the vaxed pigs and the zoomers.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    , @RoatanBill
  198. lydia says:

    Catholics pray for the conversion of all who are not yet in her fold, and this includes also the Jews — not only in the Good Friday liturgy, but also in the beautiful Act of Consecration of the Human Race to the Sacred Heart of Jesus:


    “Turn Thine eyes of mercy towards the children of the race, once Thy chosen people: of old they called down upon themselves the Blood of the Savior; may it now descend upon them a laver of redemption and of life”

    Preaching Jesus Christ and His Holy Catholic Church to the Jews is the greatest act of charity one can render them. Woe to those who have, for five decades now, denied it to them.

    https://catholicmap.blogspot.com/2017/08/the-jews-are-not-chosen-people-of-god.html

    • Replies: @John Johnson
  199. Mefobills says:
    @RockaBoatus

    You just got the memo but you won’t receive.

    It’s on you now.

  200. Iris says:
    @ivan

    Already beginning by @500 BC, the collective mind of men, was receptive to the idea of a Universal God.

    This is true and undisputable. The first monotheist recorded in the history of humankind is Pharaoh Akhenaton, who changed Egypt’s religion to a monotheist faith where the Universal Divinity was symbolised by the Sun.

    Akhenaton’s monotheism (1351-1334 BC) preceded the existence of Judaism.
    His monotheism was a political revolution that threatened the clergy actually ruling Ancient Egypt at the time. He was deposed by a coup, likely killed and replaced by a young Tutankhamun.

    One branch of Jewry clung on to the idea that they were the “Chosen People”.

    An interesting and plausible thesis was developed by Freud on the topic, in his essay “Moses and Monotheism”.
    Since Akhenaton’s monotheist revolution preceded Judaism, but was crushed in blood, Freud posited that survivors among Akhenaton’s follower fled Egypt and later revived his monotheist faith under Judaism.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_and_Monotheism

  201. lydia says:
    @Wokechoke

    Outlaw? ROTFL. This is the elite’s religion were talking about, the same NWO Epstein elite.

    https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/why-is-christ-the-only-hope-for-mankind.7566/page-10#post-469460

    [MORE]

    Rodney Howard-Browne
    @rhowardbrowne
    Meanwhile in Finland 🇫🇮

    thefederalist.com

    With Global Implications, Finland Puts Christians On Trial For Their Faith

    Meet the man who appears to be the first in the post-Soviet Union West to be brought up on criminal charges for publishing long-held Christian beliefs.
    —-
    I pray that God protects us in the following years to come cause clearly this nightmare isn’t going anywhere after some say its the end of days. Merry Christmas to everyone and have a prosperous New year and stay safe.

    https://americanfaith.com/christianity-on-trial-in-finland-as-bible-is-deemed-hate-speech/

    Christianity on trial in Finland as Bible is deemed ‘hate speech’

    December 3, 2021

    Religious liberties in danger.

    Religious liberties are in danger in Finland, and Christianity has a giant target on its back.

    In a court case with monumental implications, a pastor and a member of the Finnish Parliament are on trial for their faith. Juhana Pohjola, 49, faces criminal charges for teaching the Christian word that has been established for thousands of years.

    Pohjola has ministered to small delegations of only dozens and has worked a lifetime building a tight-knit network of churches across Finland. Many of the humble churches started as a handful of people gathering for Bible study, singing hymns, prayer, and communion.

    Many of the humble churches started as a handful of people gathering for Bible study, singing hymns, prayer, and communion.

    But Pohjola’s life work faces a harrowing test of persecution when he and Finnish MP Päivi Räsänen go to trial on January 24th.

    What’s the accusation against Pohjola and Räsänen?

    Hate speech!

    The Federalist wrote:

    Rasanen’s alleged crimes in a country that claims to guarantee freedom of speech and religion include tweeting a picture of a Bible verse. Potential penalties if they are convicted include fines and up to two years in prison.

    Finnish Authorities: The Bible Is Hate Speech

    Rasanen and Pohjola are being charged with “hate speech” for respectively writing and publishing a 24-page 2004 booklet that explains basic Christian theology about sex and marriage, which reserves sex exclusively for within marriage, which can only consist of one man and one woman, for life. The Finnish prosecutor claims centuries-old Christian teachings about sex “incite hatred” and violate legal preferences for government-privileged identity groups.

  202. Wokechoke says:
    @Observator

    Not quite. Jesus first recorded save from the devil was the Gaderine madman who was possessed by Legion. The mob of devil’s are exorcized and leap into a herd of pigs that jump in the lake. The locals tell Jesus to go away after witnessing the possessed man become normal and their valuable herds destroyed in the miracle. The Decapolitans(residents) in the area were all Greeks. The cured man is the first apostle or evangelist to the good works of Jesus. When Jesus comes back in a little while many many Decopolis residents are already following and worshiping Jesus. These are the most receptive people to his ideas in his lifetime and after. The cities in the Decopolis converted fast and early to worshipping Jesus. Jesus was a very popular figure among Greeks in the area. It’s a fact. The quick established following in the area is historical.

  203. Seraphim says:
    @Emerging Majority

    There are no historical or archaeological evidence to support the view that the feast of ‘Sol Invictus’ began in 274 during the reign of Aurelian. There is no mention of a feast of the Sun on 25 December before 354 AD (the ‘Calendar of Philocalus’, or the ‘Chronography’ which is the earliest reference of celebration of Christmas on 25 December (twice), mentions on the same day games dedicated to ‘Natalis Invicti’/Birthday of the unconquered, but not of ‘Sol Invictus’ – as it is assumed on ‘logical’ grounds which can dispense with sources – it may refer to Christ as well -). In fact there is an earlier reference to 25 December at Hippolytus of Rome (170-235 AD).
    The oldest Roman feasts in honor of the Sun we know of (from inscription material earlier than the first half of the 1st century AD), were on 8th of August and 11th of December, therefore no relation with solstices or equinoxes. Aurelian did not institute a feast of the Sun on 25th of December, but games. The idea that Aurelian instituted a special feast for the Sun on 25 December belongs rather to Julian the Apostate who may have actually been the institutor of this short-lived feast as a competitor of the Christian feast, a ‘made-up falsehood’ (like the so-called ‘Mithraism’).
    Celebration of the ‘Nativity of Christ’ is of a late date. Initially it was only part of a cycle of 12 days celebrations of different moments of the ‘Theophany/Epiphany’ (revelation of God incarnate as Jesus Christ) which starts with the Nativity and concludes with the Baptism of Christ on 6th January and the feast of St John the Forerunner on the 7th. The calculation of the date of the birth of Jesus takes as points of reference the dates of the conception (September-October) and birth of John the Baptist (24 June).

  204. Antiochus says:

    This is typical pseudo-intellectual Jewish bs… and most of the comments are no better. Ever since the birth of Christ, the Jews (Synagogue of Satan) have said with one united voice, “we will not have this man to reign over us.” (Luke 19:14) There is a difference between the honest Jew who calls out the phoniness and evil of his wretched race and is thus “righteous” before men and the Jew who bows his knee before the incarnate Son of God and says “my savior and my Lord” and is thus righteous before God. Robert Roth, whoever the hell he is, is obviously neither.

    No matter what you may think of the historical Jesus what is crystal clear, and what Roth gets totally wrong, is that Jesus was NOT perceived as a threat by the Roman Empire. At his trial, Pilate the Proconsul of Caesar, declared to the Jews who had arrested Jesus and brought him to the Roman authorities: “I find no guilt in him.” (John 18:28-40) Jesus, was obviously neither threatened or intimidated by Pilate and spoke openly and plainly about who he was and what his message and mission was… and Pilate not only perceived no threat by Jesus but engaged Jesus in philosophical dialog. (John 18:33-38) Roth is either an idiot, a liar, or both.

    Roth is partially correct about one thing, viz., that Jesus’ view of “sin” was broader than the “individual sins” which the Jewish religious leaders use to neurotically manipulate and control the Jews. But he shows himself a total ignoramus by trying to twist Jesus view of sin into some kind of political program as if Jesus would have embraced Black Lives Matter, democracy, Antifa, socialism, or capitalism. Jesus plainly said, in no uncertain terms in his own defense before the Roman Empire, “my kingdom is NOT of this world.” (John 18:28-40) The word used for “sin” in the New Testament is the Greek word hamartia (αμαρτiά) which Plato used to describe an archer who missed the target or a flute player who missed a note. In other words (according to Plato and Jesus) ANY human failure or imperfection was “sin” – including, but not limited to, individual moral failure. In stark contrast the Jews had taught (and still teach to this day) that sin is the transgression of Jewish Law.

    https://www.realjewnews.com/?p=1520

    The claims of Jesus “I and the father are one” (John 10:22-33) went far beyond Judaism and included the entire human race. For this, the Jews hated him and killed him, believing that they and they only were the chosen race of God. We are all sinners… we all miss not just the marks of the Jewish law but the marks of all laws including our own. On this the traditional eve of Jesus’ birth, “fall on your knees and hear the angel’s voices… for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.”

    • Thanks: littlewing
  205. @gay troll

    When he was born according to most theologians was the first week in September.
    Makes sense to me as an astrologer.
    Pisces is the God Box and the polarity is Virgo the only sign represented as the human figure.
    It is God in the Flesh, which is what he was.
    Some Astrologers picture him born in Pisces. I don’t he was the living God in the flesh to have the human experience.
    To be “one of us”.
    When he was born does not take away from who he was.

  206. @ivan

    Very good indeed!

    The Author of this essay would likely find one of the link articles especially interesting.

    Jesus the Apocalyptic Prophet
    https://historyforatheists.com/2018/12/jesus-apocalyptic-prophet/

    Nazarath was about 4 miles from the major city of Sepphoris, and thus a young Jesus could have seen firsthand the power of the Romans. Defeating them wasn’t something the local people could do, so it’s not surprising Jesus decided that only with Divine assistance could the job be done.

  207. @lydia

    It seems that everyone resents the Catholics.

    Jews would love it if White Catholics went secular or at least protestant lite. Secular Whites routinely bash the Catholic Church and clearly have a preference for protestant lite churches.

    My favorite is the protestant lite mom who rants about the priests or praying to Mary while her Lutheran raised daughter is out eating at the y trying to find herself at 27.

    Jews have a similar problem where the ones raised in the liberal forms of the faith are much more likely to abandon it completely, marry a shiksa and call it good with one kid or a couple dogs.

    If you aren’t making enemies then you are probably doing something wrong.

  208. @HeebHunter

    As intelligence and education increase

    Are you sure about that? Explain the vaxed pigs and the zoomers.

    Communists used to say the same thing up until the mid 1920s. University professors in the US talked about capitalism at the time as temporary.

    Replacing religion with Communism and the rise of intelligence and education was supposed to bring in some great age of enlightenment and peace.

    That belief began to erode when it was clear that the Communists couldn’t even master food distribution. They had thousands of PhDs and still couldn’t beat even a primitive market system.

    If anything the West has been in cognitive decline since WW1. Everyone is just fooled by technical advancements and having smart people in key positions.

    • Replies: @Fart Blossom
  209. gay troll says:

    Merry Christmas y’all! Jesus Christ may be fictional but that doesn’t make him wrong.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
  210. @RoatanBill

    We, the atheists, know that your delusional belief system is dangerous to us all.

    “The 2000-year-old foundation of our culture and science and law and art and philosophy and that built our entire civilization is dangerous, I tell ya!”

    You autistic little atheistkultists are humorous in your illogic and low-IQ.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  211. @Blodgie

    Christianity is aggressive and responsible for every injustice against mankind and a multitude of wars right? Christian European men invented slavery and imperialism right? I’ll just use the Crusades and the Spanish inquisition as two examples. But Christian men are weak “do as their told” wimps right? I think your confusing Christian men with leftist “woke” Marxist atheists. I’m sure you can relate!

  212. @GomezAdddams

    lol. It is always amusing when commies try to wormtongue in communism through Christianity, despite the fact that being a communist literally gets you excommunicated.

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Decree_against_Communism

  213. @advancedatheist

    “Local political leaders never get higher ups to get rid of trouble makers, especially in a a hugely embarrassing way like having them crucified (the most shameful of all executions) on a religious sabbath (thus condemning him as sacrilegious).”

    So dumb, so nonsensical, so illogical, so low IQ, so….atheist.

  214. Anon[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    That pretty much sums it up nicely. It’s also an attack from a Jewish perspective, which always ends up being an epic fail. Seeing Jews try to subvert, coopt, infiltrate, or misrepresent Christianity always gives me a good laugh.

  215. @gay troll

    It was a mix of Truth and bullshit. The same as it ever was with these (((deceivers))).

  216. @CelestiaQuesta

    My sides. Very well done. Merry cremma, indeed!

  217. IreneAthena says: • Website

    Merry Christmas y’all! Jesus Christ may be fictional but that doesn’t make him wrong. -212 gay troll

    Merry Christmas, gay troll.

    A thrill of hope [yesssssss. gay troll said, “Jesus Christ MAY be (not ‘IS’) fictional…”] the weary world rejoices, for yonder breaks a new and glorious dawn…

    Hail the heaven-born Prince of Peace! [“…but that doesn’t make him wrong.”] Hail the Sun of Righteousness! Light and life to all he brings, risen with healing in his wings. Hark the herald angels sing, GLORY TO THE NEWBORN KING!

    • Replies: @gay troll
  218. @Ko

    You’re welcome, Ko, and thanks for your acknowledgment. FWIW, I spent about 15 years of my spare time on 50 or so books to come to my conclusions, my only goal to be to figure out the truth of the matter. I appreciate your understanding, and if you’d like to go a bit further, I would recommend The Last Week by Borg and Crossan, and the newsletters of the LA and CW Catholic Workers.

    • Thanks: Iris, CelestiaQuesta
  219. @RockaBoatus

    You never read the bible in your life, you phony.

  220. @Mefobills

    lol. Appeal to authority by the Jesus denier. Classic.

  221. @gay troll

    lol. Your mental health may be fictional, as is any “marriage” you contract with another man, but good on you for continuing to live in denial. (/sarcasm).

    Repent and believe, sinner.

  222. E. Michael Jones recently stated in an interview that history is written when a super wealthy Oligarch J_w conspires with a Revolutionary J_w to destroy Christian culture. This article may fit the description.

  223. @Priss Factor

    The coffee was good, right? 😛

    But seriously – loads of excellent points; of course Socialism has to be National –
    as, ideally, should religion (here the Orthodox are more highly evolved for once).
    – Now in all indogermanic religions the wandering stranger was sacred to the
    highest god – in some languages (e.g. Greek) “stranger” and “guest” is one word –
    that´s why the “ethical universalism” number was such an easy fit;
    it has become untenable in the age of mass migration and mattering.
    For better or worse we are stuck with Christianity – replacing it with something
    artificial has never worked;
    but a little tweaking is allowed, no?

  224. Seraphim says:
    @Hyper Bole

    That’s a ‘good one’ idiotical as it is (what could you expect from an Idiocrate?).
    The ‘Go’ board is of course a Go-spel book. The icon is the icon of Christ Pantocrator of St. Catherine’s Monastery at Sinai, one of the oldest Byzantine icons, dating from the 6th century AD.

  225. @John Johnson

    Your argument is apples and oranges.

    Religion doesn’t matter in most cases of doing good or evil. It’s the bullshit that religion inspires people to be good that’s the lie. Religion is a merit badge someone wears to convince an acquaintance of their inherent good qualities. It’s usually a deception since so many claim to be christian, for example, and then go off to kill people in some far off place wearing a US costume that somehow turns murder into something called service which then gets them praise.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    , @IreneAthena
  226. Mr Anatta says:
    @Iris

    Funny how Jesus and Akhenaton in the images both have maturing mushroom caps in or around their head area.

    The truth can be so very obvious but i guess the deeper ones sleep,the harder it is for one to see.

    • Replies: @Peter Rabbit
  227. @Iris

    Freud´s idea that Moses was a renegade Aton priest is interesting;
    however (as per the official timeline) 150 years are missing and Moses
    did not deny the existence of other gods, he only claimed that his had the bigger
    pipi i.e. he may have been the first American but not the first monotheist.
    (the tendency for gods not to remain single is universal but that´s a different story)

  228. @Ed Case

    This Common Good sounds like a Trojan Horse.

    Yup. And it’s obvious that when some institution claims to support the common good they’re producing the stuff that comes out from under the horses tail. Yet people continue to believe it’s honey, and free at that.

  229. @John Johnson

    Everyone is just fooled by technical advancements and having smart people in key positions.

    Everyone is just fooled by technical advancements and having supposedly smart people with great connections such as others with access to the money machine in key positions.

  230. @R.G. Camara

    Typical of someone that can’t actually argue a point to resort to ad hominem.

    I’m neither autistic nor low IQ. As a professional software developer, my business is pure logic, so you fail on that score as well. Topping it off with a made up word rounds out the picture of a true believer.

    Hasn’t your god given you enough intelligence to actually debate points?

    You should be deeply ashamed of yourself, again.

  231. @Mr Anatta

    Well, aren’t you a clever one.

  232. Blodgie says:

    To all the cucked and controlled men who are so proud of their Christian faith…

    What does it mean to you that your number one hero is venerated because of his humiliating murder?

    It’s an apt metaphor for what is expected of you if you want to be like Christ.

    Born to lose, to suffer, to be murdered!

    It’s a method of controlling you.

    And you are so thoroughly manipulated that you actually like it!

    Beyond pathetic.

    • Replies: @Poco
    , @RobinG
  233. gay troll says:
    @IreneAthena

    Hail the Sun of Righteousness! Light and life to all he brings, risen with healing in his wings. Hark the herald angels sing, GLORY TO THE NEWBORN KING!

    Indeed, our salvation has come again this December 25, as the solstice ends and the sun begins to trace its return to the northern latitudes. Today we mark the ray of hope, the promise of future glory. And we recognize the same fire that burns in that distant star burns also in the heart of every thing that lives, and in the mind of every man and woman, with no regard to their stature or pedigree. Must we believe that Pilate literally crucified a rebel magician in order to cherish these feelings and this knowledge? Of course not. The Bible is fiction written as history. It is only full of meaning.

    • Replies: @IreneAthena
  234. @Fart Blossom

    Thank you FB for this outrageous example of “christianity”, which can be seen to have been followed more or less ever since … Just as it had been in days prior, e.g. Eisenhower’s Rhine Meadows Camps, the carpet-bombing of Germany, approval/silence of mass rape etc by bolshevik allies, and this just in 5-6 years of WW2 …

    At University I submitted an article titled “Are Christians Christian ?” to the student newspaper. It led to several fruitful discussions with Christians. I remained unconvinced in the face of constant war for Israel and the zionist penetration/subversion of the belief system that had created Europe. Approx 12 years later someone gave me a Bible and I appreciated that “christianity” (aka churchianity) has very little to do with the Lord Jesus Christ’s teachings. I became a Christian but have no church home.

    Happy Christmas (though I believe Dec 25 is the wrong date) to all UR readers.
    This version of Händel’s “Messiah” has been criticised b/c it misses some parts out, a valid critique of course, but anyway hope it will be a Blessing to you.

  235. @gay troll

    Well we know he wasn’t born on December 25th.. That is a Roman Catholic invention to appease their pagan subjects…. But that doesn’t mean he wasn’t a historically real person. There is plenty of evidence. But in case you didn’t realize – birth certificates weren’t digitized yet. Do you have direct relics of your own ancestors from 2000 years ago?

  236. @Felix Grossman

    What tribe was Miriam (Mary) his mother from??

  237. @Jack McArthur

    Agreed up until the last paragraph.
    Christmas was not an event for his followers. The time of his birth was most likely in the Autumn around the time of Sukkot (Tabernacles). That would make more sense as when the Word came to dwell (Tabernacle) with men. That is also the time you are more likely to find sheperds out with their flocks at night… Not in late December. You can also trace by the times of the birth of his cousin John (Yochanan) whose father was a servant in the temple. The dates of each groups service time can be ascertained. You can trace and measure.

  238. @gregor

    I don’t think so buddy. You have picked out the bits of Paul that support a human Christ most strongly. It is readily apparent that they lack any degree of biographical detail. There are no names or places. And furthermore, context reveals that these quotations do not actually support your argument. They support mine.

    For example, you quote Galatians saying that Christ was born of a woman. OK, do we know anything about this woman? Galatians 4, if you read the whole thing, is about how some people are born of Hagar (the earthly slave) and some are born of Sarah (the celestial queen). Paul spells it out: “These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants.” So when Paul says Christ was born of a woman under the law, he is saying he was born of a heavenly covenant. And all other Christians are born of the same woman.

    This brings us to your next point: Christ’s “brothers”. An elementary reading of Paul reveals that he regards Christianity as a new family that transcends old family bonds; all of his converts become “brothers of Christ”. It is a fraternity. And since, as Galatians says, all Christians are born of the same “heavenly mother”, he can extend his metaphor to siblings.

    Then you say Paul tells us Christ was betrayed one night. But by whom? For what reason? Your final quote is the most illuminating of all. Paul is not exaggerating when he says he *only* knows Christ and Christ “crucified”. He knows none of the biographical detail related in the Gospels. Finally he doesn’t actually say crucified, as in nailed to a cross. The Greek word used by Paul is estauromenon, i.e. impaled on a stake.

    You can’t use Paul to argue against my thesis; Paul will prove my thesis every time.

    • Replies: @gregor
  239. @RoatanBill

    It’s usually a deception since so many claim to be christian, for example, and then go off to kill people in some far off place wearing a US costume that somehow turns murder into something called service which then gets them praise.

    That doesn’t make any sense. Frontline soldiers do not choose to go to war. That is their job.

    The fact that most are Christian is merely reflective of the population. Most firefighters are Christian. Most soldiers are Christian.

    Seculars are also sent off to kill people in foreign lands.

    There are in fact more seculars than Jews in the military:
    https://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2009/11/12/raw-data-religious-preference-in-the-military/

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
    , @Blodgie
  240. @showmethereal

    Do you have direct relics of your own ancestors from 2000 years ago?

    Were my ancestors world famous excorcists?

  241. anon[353] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sue Dunham

    Yes, Zion exists in heaven. The spiritual Zion, not the blasphemous political state of Israel which claims to be Zion. The kingdom of God is not of this Earth, and the only way to go there is by repenting of your sin and believing in Jesus Christ, not by committing ethnic cleansing against Palestinians so that Jews can resettle a piece of real estate that has no spiritual significance and no relevance to one’s personal salvation. “Zionism,” in the sense that people use it, is a worldly political movement whereby Jews reclaim and resettle the worldly political state of Israel using military and political means at the cost of many innocent lives, particularly Palestinian lives, not to mention ungodly and wicked political machinations such as the Lavon Affair, bombing of the King David Hotel, Irgun terror tactics, attack on the US liberty, etc.. Zionism in the Herzlian, Orthodox Jewish sense has nothing to do with with Jesus Christ or Christianity.

    John 4

    19 “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”

    21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

    Luke 17

    20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

    21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

    • Thanks: Iris
  242. @Dumbo

    In the early US Christmas was banned because it was seen as a Catholic holiday…. For the first few centuries no Christians celebrated Christmas. It was a pagan winter solstice holiday.

  243. @John Johnson

    When you volunteer to enter the military, you volunteer to take orders and those orders might mean killing people. It’s a choice to join. The swine in the military, mostly christians, decided to enlist knowing that they might be called upon to murder people.

    When the orders are given, they still have a choice, to say no. That would be against orders and would have consequences, but they could have a clear conscience by NOT murdering people. Again, a choice.

    The overwhelming majority of these christians make the multiple choices to murder people. I conclude that every one of them is an amoral swine and guilty of war crimes.

    Everyone that joins the US military is a POS by definition since the US only wages offensive war and has done so for over 70 years. The christians and other religious people that follow orders to in any way help the war effort are guilty.

    I, an atheist, was drafted for the Vietnam war. I refused induction and alternative service. I murdered no one. I didn’t help the US military in their offensive mission in a far off land that never did a thing to any US people or the US country in general. Those that went voluntarily or were drafted are the lowest of scum on the planet along with the political class that cooked up the adventure. All the religious in particular are hypocritical phonies for clearly violating every religion’s stated intentions to be like their creator god.

    • Agree: Arthur MacBride
    • Replies: @John Johnson
  244. Blodgie says:
    @John Johnson

    Damn you are thick John Johnson.

    The point is that when Christian fools decide to sign their lives away to the government by joining the armed forces, they are tacitly agreeing to the norms and mores of the government and not their religion.

    When Lt. Calley ordered all those Brave Christian Men to mow down Vietnamese babies, they fucking did it!

    Are you processing yet?

    • Replies: @Chris Moore
  245. niner says:

    that painting of Jesus is a fake.

    the enlarged left eye is a modern tell-mark of those who are part of the global conspiracy–through many different employments and organizations.
    (Horus, and also the black-eye ceremony–the satanic baptism)

    and the cross on the book is upside down. quite impossible.

    also the bubbles on the lower right-side of neck are a blemish or tell of disease which is never ever portrayed by church artists and medievalists.

    and the halo appears to have some smudged letters, which are no doubt a curse.

    the provenance of the fake painting would be interesting, but possibly itself a forgery.

    • Thanks: Iris
    • Replies: @showmethereal
  246. Chris Moore says: • Website
    @Blodgie

    The point is that when Christian fools decide to sign their lives away to the government by joining the armed forces, they are tacitly agreeing to the norms and mores of the government and not their religion.

    You mean Marxist-Zionist brainwashed fools who think they’re “Christians”?

    You do realize this country was hijacked by ((Jews)) starting in the early 1900’s?

    So when you declare these brainwashed rubes “Christians,” you’re fighting strawman Christianity.

    These are really ((Christians)). Just like “Jews” are really ((Jews)) and “secularists” are really ((secularists)).

    It’s the Marxist-Zionism, stupid.

    The Life of an American Jew in Racist Marxist Israel

    https://ia803206.us.archive.org/15/items/1985-the-life-of-an-american-jew-in-racist-marxist-israel/1985%20-%20The%20Life%20of%20an%20American%20Jew%20in%20Racist%20Marxist%20Israel%20-%20J%20Bernstein.pdf

    Here we have a portrait of what these brainwashed tools are fighting for, and fighting to actualize. Not only is Judeofascism evil; it’s pathetic.

    • Replies: @Blodgie
  247. bjondo says:

    Christians need more Yid, more atheists
    to explain Jesus, to explain Christianity.

    5 dancing shlomos

  248. Blodgie says:
    @Chris Moore

    So the Real Christians won’t sign up to murder for status and cash?

    • Replies: @Chris Moore
  249. IreneAthena says: • Website

    Hail the Sun of Righteousness! Light and life to all he brings, risen with healing in his wings. Hark the herald angels sing, GLORY TO THE NEWBORN KING! <— This music link works.

    Indeed, our salvation has come again this December 25, as the solstice ends and the sun begins to trace its return to the northern latitudes. Today we mark the ray of hope, the promise of future glory. And we recognize the same fire that burns in that distant star burns also in the heart of every thing that lives, and in the mind of every man and woman, with no regard to their stature or pedigree. — #237 gay troll

    Very beautifully put, gay troll. Our Creator speaks into the heart of all, and those who, because of circumstances of time and/or location, could not hear the story of Jesus, are no exception.

    He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also, he has put eternity into man’s heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end. — Ecclesiastes 3:11

    I heard a story about a Christian missionary who went to a remote place of the world. After hearing stories about The Nazarene for the first time, one of the natives smiled and said, “Ah, so that’s what His name is.”

    I have learned to respect the journeys of all who, following the whisper of the Creator in their hearts, as the Magi followed The Star, whether or not they yet know the name of the One who has been leading them toward Himself.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  250. IreneAthena says: • Website
    @RoatanBill

    Roatan Bill, I want to tell you about a really cool coincidence that happened to me while I was reading RFKjr’s book The Real Anthony Fauci: Bill Gates, Big Pharma, and the Global War on Democracy and Public Health

    …but first I want to take a long walk in the freshly fallen White Christmas snow.

    I imagine the weather is different where you are? Meli Kalikimaka, Roatan Bill!

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  251. @GomezAdddams

    His followers celebrated Passover… Then they celebrated Pentecost… They never celebrated Easter

    • Replies: @Peter Rabbit
  252. @IreneAthena

    It’s a very comfortable 75 degrees F and may go down to the mid 60’s in January before it heads right back up.

    You know the old saying, April showers bring May flowers, right? Well on the island things never stop growing because the temperature is always conducive to plant growth. People around here wear sweaters in the 70’s and coats in the 60’s, including me. I’m acclimated to the heat and prefer 80 degrees for best comfort and is where our A/C is set.

    • Replies: @IreneAthena
  253. anon[353] • Disclaimer says:

    Mr. Roth says that he read 50 or so books to come to his conclusions, and yet in this article he can only cite two authors (Borg and Crossan), whose interpretations of Scripture are only speculative and second-hand. What sources do Borg and Crossan rely upon in their studies? Assuming they even have other sources, why are those source to be given greater weight than the Scripture? And yet Roth contradicts himself in his sense by not only citing Scripture but also the Didache of all things! When it comes to such scholarship, there’s no question that Roth is in over his head.

    Roth avoids citing Scripture because it overwhelmingly militates against his interpretations and conclusions, and yet he is willing to occasionally cite Scripture selectively only in the context of his own interpretive framework, not as the basis for his conclusions. If you are going to cite Scripture at all, then why not look at the entirety of it? Why cite it only selectively? What criteria are being applied in selectively quoting Scripture? He even quotes the non-canonical Gospel of Thomas, which is historically unreliable and was written well over 100 years after the death of Christ and came much later after the canonical Gospels. If Scripture is to be disregarded in its entirety and only filtered out selectively (for whatever obscure criteria other than confirmation bias, Roth never tells us), why then is the non-canonical Gospel of Thomas to be taken seriously?

    And if Scripture is not to be taken seriously, why then reference Crossan’s study of the Didache? That is essentially giving credence to canonical interpretations of Scripture, which run totally counter to Roth’s argument.

    In short, the hermeneutic applied here is chaotic, whimsical, arbitrary, and ultimately without rhyme or reason. It is a poorly researched and poorly cited article without any clear methodological basis for interpreting and synthesizing Scripture and non-Scriptural texts.

    Roth’s main writings have concerned political issues, such as US policy in Ukraine. His academic background is in law, working for the attorney general’s office in New York. He has no credentials that would make him qualified to offer a serious opinion on ancient texts. All Roth can say is that he spent 15 years reading 50 or so books (what books, heaven only knows) to come to his conclusion. 50 books in 15 years? That’s it? We can be charitable in assuming that Roth was busy doing other things besides reading 50 books about the Gospels and 1st century Levantine history, such as studying books pertaining to his legal studies. Even so, he has no business writing an article like this. One has to question Roth’s motive in writing such an article during Christmas of all times. The whole thing smacks of an anti-Christian agenda, and posters are right to take issue.

    It’s not surprising the only place such a pseudo-intellectual article could find publication is the Unz review.

    • Replies: @Iris
  254. @anon

    Well said Disclaimer! The Gospels and the Epistles of Paul are presented as historical realities and truth. They are not presented as fables and fictions or something akin to the pagan mysteries religions.

    Moreover, Paul did not ‘invent’ Christianity for the gentiles. He was very careful to distinguish between his own words and that of the Lord Jesus. Yes, Paul helped to organize and provide form or structure for the early church, but in no way did he ‘invent’ a ‘Jesus myth’ for the pagans. Those who assert that he did in EVERY case do not read carefully the actual words of Paul, nor the entirety of the New Testament’s message. They are guilty of eisegesis (reading into Scripture their own ideas), rather than exegesis (extracting from Scripture it’s own message).

    • Replies: @gay troll
  255. @Sue Dunham

    Good Lord do you need a course in biblical hermeneutics! Jesus employs hyperbole and parabolic language and you take him literally. You miss every nuance. Simple things have to be explained to you in this realm. Your bias against Jesus is so great that no amount of reasoning and balanced perspective can reach you. You cannot and will not receive the Truth.

    Moreover, Jesus did not break the Mosaic Law, but merely the Tradition of the Elders which had no divine authority. The Pharisees and scribes added stipulations to the Law that only served to burden the common people. No wonder Jesus denounced them in the strongest language possible.

    I recommend Robert H. Stein on ‘The Sayings of Jesus’ (Baker Book House) where he explains Jesus’ use of hyperbole, overstatement, parabolic language, and the like. It will do you some real good. See also his ‘Playing by the Rules’ which sets forth some common-sense principles of biblical interpretation (which you sorely lack).

    • Replies: @Sue Dunham
  256. GeneralRipper [AKA "Nemo me impune lacessit"] says:
    @RoatanBill

    Says the guy who grew up in a Christian nation with all the many benefits it offered, and still resides in one to this day….lol

    North Korea or Saudi Arabia are certainly viable options, smart guy.

    • Troll: RoatanBill
  257. Chris Moore says: • Website
    @Blodgie

    You Judeofascist tools just love beating on strawman ((Christians)). Kind of like you love beating on cartoonish Wahhabis of your petrodollar House of Saud partners.

    You think you’re clever. It’s all a big joke to you. Mass murder is a big joke.

    Keep laughing.

  258. @John Johnson

    “I would be very hesitant to conceal carry in a place like LA without a permit” – You cannot get a concealed carry permit in Los Angeles nor in most Southern California cities. If it does happen, it is very rare. Most cities don’t want to take on the headaches that come with issuing such licenses, and they are not inclined to give them out unless in very unique circumstances (or perhaps if you have some important connections).

    Many people cannot for a host of reasons leave L.A., and so they must deal with things as they are within their own communities. In light of this, it might indeed be better to carry concealed for their own protection for as the old saying goes, ‘Better to be tried by twelve than carried by six.’ In the overall scheme of things, it would probably be better to carry concealed and at least have a chance of surviving an armed Dindu robbery than to presume that you will only fail in court if caught using it. Of course, it would be better to simply move out of Los Angeles and California itself, but not everyone is able to do so.

    It doesn’t really matter if a liberal prosecutor is going to salivate over your use of a handgun during a robbery in hopes of ‘getting another White man.’ They will do this regardless if you have a CCW permit or not. They do the same even with cops in order to show to everyone how ‘non-racist’ and ‘fair’ they are. You should be more concerned about protecting your life and the lives of your loved ones than the legal shit-show that will ensue if you have to employ deadly force.

    “Or keep a handgun in your vehicle with a quick access case. You can carry the case around in a bag and the doesn’t count as being concealed” – Negative. I don’t recommend this at all. Whether you’re carrying a firearm in a purse, paper bag, or on your person, you are still viewed as in possession of a concealed handgun. Such distinctions will not be made by a prosecuting attorney.

    Moreover, if you’re going to carry concealed, it should be on your person. If you’re surprised by an armed robber, you will not likely have time to unlock and open the case in a quick manner. It will likely delay you, and if this is not something you practice regularly, it will prove disastrous to your safety. People flub and forget all sorts of things when they are under pressure and don’t practice the technique. Better to carry on your person in a holster, and to practice drawing from it hundreds of times so that it becomes smooth and natural. If you leave your weapon in a case, you will eventually forget it too and it will do little good when you really need it.

    Regarding any claim to being a business even if you are not when applying for a CCW, please understand that a background investigation is done on every applicant. They check to see if you are a legitimate business and even whether it’s truly as necessary as you claim. You won’t be the first person who ever lied to them or stretched the truth a bit.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
  259. gay troll says:
    @RockaBoatus

    [Paul] was very careful to distinguish between his own words and that of the Lord Jesus.

    Really? What words does Paul ascribe to Jesus Christ?

  260. @RockaBoatus

    Well, I strongly suspect that you are an idiot, so I’ll make this simple for you: was Jesus Christ being hyperbolic or parabolic when he said that a man and woman should stay married forever?

    And if he was not, wasn’t he directly contradicting the law of Moses, which allowed for writs of divorce?

    • Replies: @anon
  261. Iris says:
    @anon

    One has to question Roth’s motive in writing such an article during Christmas of all times. The whole thing smacks of an anti-Christian agenda, and posters are right to take issue.

    This criticism seems very unfair.
    The opinions expressed in this article are neither new, nor anti-Christian. They are very similar to those developed by a recognised theological current, very important within the Catholic Church, called “Theologie de la Liberation“.

    This Christian movement was born in Latin America in the late 1960’s, as a reaction to the political poverty plaguing indigenous people, but also against the violence exerted by military dictatorships often put in place by the US imperial hegemon, in which the institutional Church was often compromised.
    (It is believed for example that the current Pope Francis was complicit in the Argentina junta torturing and executing political opponents, most of them on the political left).

    https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%A9ologie_de_la_lib%C3%A9ration

    This genuine Christian movement was very important in Latin America, and raised many hopes in that it promoted Christian solidarity towards the poor. It was revolutionary because it identified economic structures as the cause of poverty and sided with the labour classes.

    It has its famous intellectuals, Archbishop Helder Camara or theologian Leonardo Boff for instance. It also has its martyrs, such as the Archbishop of San Salvador Oscar Romero, who was murdered in cold blood while celebrating mass, for his stand against torture, illegal abductions and assassinations of political opponents.

    The question will remain a burning topic and will always remain with us: does religion have a political dimension? Does it have the responsibility to stand by the poor and downtrodden, and strive at improving their earthly life, not just make them wait for a better afterlife?

    Similar to the Catholic Theologians of Liberation, Islam for instance unambiguously answers yes to this question and it is certainly not influenced by Marxism.

    Wishing you all a beautiful and luminous Christmas.

    • Thanks: Emerging Majority
    • Replies: @anon
  262. anon[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sue Dunham

    Well, I strongly suspect that you are an idiot, so I’ll make this simple for you: was Jesus Christ being hyperbolic or parabolic when he said that a man and woman should stay married forever?

    Obviously, you have no idea what Jesus even actually said on this matter. Why don’t you learn to quote what Jesus actually says instead of putting words in his mouth? If only you actually read the Bible, you’d realize that Jesus answered your question in Matthew 19:

    8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

    Jesus says here that it was God’s intention for man and woman to be married for life. God only allowed a writ of divorce as a mercy towards human beings, whose sinful nature prevented them fro keeping God’s law in its fullness. The chasm between man’s sinful nature and God’s holiness cannot be bridged by human effort, which is why God made a concession to man’s sinful nature in allowing for the writ of divorce. There’s no contradiction. A man and woman are meant to be married for life. That is God’s standard. Likewise, God’s standard is so high that if a man even looks at a woman with lust in his heart, he’s already guilty of adultery (Matthew 5:28).

    God’s standard is so high that calling someone an “idiot” or “fool,” like you did in your post, puts you in danger of hellfire: “But I say, if you are even angry with someone, you are subject to judgment! If you call someone an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell.” (Matthew 5:22). So how is it that @Sue Dunham has not been struck down in God’s divine wrath and sent to hell? I’ve done lots of trolling myself and called people names too, so I can ask the same question of myself.

    That being said, recognizing the reality that human beings fail to keep God’s law, God allows such thoughts and deeds to go unpunished. This raises the question: how can God fail to uphold his own law in making for such allowances? The same question could be raised of many other instances where God does not uphold his law. A good case in point is King David. God forgave David’s sin of adultery, which is a capital offense deserving of death. How could God not uphold his law?

    The answer is Jesus Christ. In dying for people’s sins, he fulfilled God’s demand for justice and became the propitiation of sin for all those who believe in him:

    21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[i] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

    The writ of divorce allowed under Moses was only allowed because Christ died for people’s sins.

  263. IreneAthena says: • Website
    @gay troll

    gay troll, my #253 was in Reply to your #237. I was in the middle of a reply to Roatan Bill when I realized I had forgotten to yada, yada, yada…

  264. anon[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @Iris

    The question will remain a burning topic and will always remain with us: does religion have a political dimension? Does it have the responsibility to stand by the poor and downtrodden, and strive at improving their earthly life, not just make them wait for a better afterlife?

    It’s interesting you’d bring this up. You are right in that Roth’s article is indeed very cliched. It’s another iteration of the idea that Jesus is a social activist or political revolutionary, which finds its expression very well in “Liberation Theology.” But all of the points that have been made with regard to Roth’s article are just as valid in refuting Liberation Theology, which is not orthodox Christian doctrine. You see, not all who say they are Christians actually are, and that goes for many in the Catholic Church too.

    Matthew 7:

    21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

    But I wonder if Mr. Roth would still insist on recasting Jesus as a political activist and social revolutionary if we were to apply his version of liberation theology to the Palestinians, who have been struggling under the yoke of an oppressive apartheid regime? I wonder if Mr. Roth (and I here I invoke the great Michael Hoffman) approves of Pope Pius X, who, when asked in 1904 to recognize Palestine as the rightful Jewish homeland, told Theodore Herzl: “As the head of the church, I cannot answer you otherwise: the Jews have not recognized the Lord; therefore we cannot recognize the Jewish people.” I suspect that the usual double standards apply for Liberation Theology as they do for many other things advocated by Roth’s fellow tribesman 🙂

    Merry Christmas

    • Replies: @lydia
  265. @anon

    God’s standard is so high that calling someone an “idiot” or “fool,” like you did in your post, puts you in danger of hellfire

    Oh brother, are you reading Matthew with a straight face? Do you really think a thought or emotion is equally as sinful as a crime? If I am not even allowed to experience anger or lust, how can I ever hope to overcome these emotions? What moral responsibility is left to me if I am not even allowed to experience these emotions in the first place? Do you think it would be better for me to repress my emotions, and pile blandishments on my adversary, and postpone judgment until the afterlife? There is a damn good reason why gay troll despite his filthy and relentless mouth has not been stricken down by the lord. Because anger is NOT a sin, even Jesus fills himself with anger, whipping the bankers, smiting the fig, calling Peter satan. Never forget, the sermon Jesus gives in Matthew is advice for evil Jews. I am not an evil Jew and therefore Jesus tells me I have no need for his advice.

    Which brings up a logical question: if you say it is sinful to call someone an idiot or a fool, is it also a sin to call someone evil? Because Jesus calls the Jews evil repeatedly.

    • Replies: @anon
  266. IreneAthena says: • Website
    @RoatanBill

    You know the old saying, April showers bring May flowers, right? Well on the island things never stop growing because the temperature is always conducive to plant growth. –#256 RoatanBill

    So May flowers in December, as well as avocados and all sorts of other fruit? Sounds lovely!

    Well speaking of old sayings, that brings me to the next part of my story. “So many books, not enough time,” is an old saying I’m saying more and more the older I get. So… I’m always thrilled when “the next thing to read” pops out at me, to make the decision easier.

    It was after 1 a.m. and I couldn’t sleep. I had started reading Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s book The Real Anthony Fauci: Bill Gates, Big Pharma, and the Global War on Democracy and Public Health but I had purchased the Kindle version, and blue-screen reading after midnight doesn’t do anything AT ALL to help insomnia.

    Now it’s important to note here, that a passage in the RFKjr book that had caught my attention the day before was:

    (from Chapter 12 GERM GAMES) “The United States began its first large-scale offensive bioweapons research during World War II in the spring of 1943 on orders from President Franklin Roosevelt, as a collaboration between the US military and its pharmaceutical partners. Pharma titan George W. Merck ran the Pentagon’s offensive bioweapons program while simultaneously directing his drug manufacturing behemoth…

    The intelligence agencies were involved in the top secret program from the outset. George Merck’s hands-on employee, Frank Olson, was an American bacteriologist, biological warfare scientist, and CIA officer. He worked for the United States Army Biological Warfare Laboratories (USBWL) at Fort Detrick with Merck and the US military developing the US bioweapons and psywarfare arsenal. Project Artichoke was an experimental CIA interrogation program that used psychoactive drugs like LSD in pursuit of “enhanced” interrogation methods. The project was part of a larger CIA program exploring approaches for controlling both individuals and populations. Olson was involved with Project Artichoke with moral misgivings, beginning in May 1952: after watching a documentary on Protestant reformation leader Martin Luther, a conscience-stricken Olson informed his bosses he intended to quit the biowarfare program.

    Around the time of that announcement, Olson’s CIA colleague, Sidney Gottleib, head of CIA’s MKUltra program, covertly dosed him with LSD. A week later, on November 28, 1953, Olson plunged to his death from a window of New York’s Hotel Statler [DON’T DO IT, PLEASE, IF THIS IS TRIGGERING ANYONE. CALL SUICIDE HOTLINE.] The US government first described his death as a suicide, then a misadventure. In 1975, the government admitted it’s guilt in the murder and offered Olson’s family an out-of-court settlement….* *Footnote 3: Part One: The Mysterious Death of CIA Scientist Frank Olson

    So, I needed something on paper to read. I reached into a [REDACTED], where I have tall piles of books interspersed with hidden cans of food, you know, for “the days ahead.” (I’m not giving away any big secret to the world here, as every room in our house has tall stacks of books in it.)

    Now, who can guess which book was in my hand when I pulled my arm out of the REDACTED where all those stacks of books were? [To Be Continued….]

    • Replies: @IreneAthena
  267. Seraphim says:
    @Iris

    The anthropologists of the late 19th century-early 20th, like the Scot Andrew Lang and German Wilhelm Schmidt, concluded after thorough ethnographic field research of ‘primitive’ religions (supported by the emerging ‘comparative mythology’ and ‘history of religions’), that the idea of the Supreme Being, the “high God” or “All Father” existed among some of the simplest of contemporary tribes prior to Western contact. Wilhelm Schmidt called it ‘Urmonotheismus’ (primitive monotheism or henotheism) that worshipped God, as opposed to a pantheon of polytheistic gods, was the original religion of mankind. His book ‘Der Ursprung der Gottesidee’ (The origin of the idea of God) appearing from 1912, opposed the “Revolutionary Monotheism” approach that traces the emergence of monotheistic thought as a gradual process spanning the Bronze and Iron Age religions of the ancient Near East and classical antiquity. In the 1930s he adduced new evidence from Native American mythology, Australian aborigines and other primitive civilizations in support of his views.
    Anyway, the opposition monotheism-polytheism is a false problem, created by the new religion of ‘materialism/positivism/evolutionism’, with its anti-Christian animus. It is not that mankind slowly ‘evolved’ from worship of a multitude of ‘gods’ to the worship of a unique God, but man’s gradual loss of belief in a supreme God, relegated to the position of a ‘deus otiosus’ (“idle god”), who largely retires from the world and is no longer involved in its daily operation and is not interested in the shenanigans of ‘humankind’, and shift to worshiping inferior gods (this is idolatry) and himself.

  268. Seraphim says:
    @IreneAthena

    Here is how the Orthodox Church praise the Nativity:

    Troparion — Tone 4
    Your Nativity, O Christ our God, / has shone to the world the Light of knowledge! / For by it, those who worshipped the stars, / were taught by a Star to adore You, / the Sun of Righteousness, / and to know You, the Orient from on High. / O Lord, glory to You!
    Kontakion — Tone 3
    Today the Virgin gives birth to the Transcendent One, / and the earth offers a cave to the Unapproachable One! / Angels with shepherds glorify Him! / The wise men journey with a star! / Since for our sake the Eternal God was born as a Little Child!

    • Replies: @IreneAthena
  269. IreneAthena says: • Website
    @RoatanBill

    No…. although there’s probably a copy of it around here somewhere.

  270. IreneAthena says: • Website
    @Seraphim

    Seraphim, as a matter of fact, I temporarily convert to Orthodox Christianity around December 15 every year, when I realize I’m not going to get Christmas gifts delivered to my sibs before December 25. But this year, for the first time, I’ve been taking it a little more seriously, by listening to Orthodox Christian Nativity Music.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  271. gregor says:
    @Dr. Fasci, America’s Doctor

    Are you and “gay troll” one and the same? Or am I supposed to know who you are? I’m not familiar with your pet theories about the NT.

    1) Paul’s letters are not intended to be comprehensive biographies of Jesus. They are correspondence between Paul and several churches. That’s why there isn’t a wealth of biographical details. Do you go on lengthy biographical digressions in all of your correspondence? You probably don’t.

    2) Jesus’ Family. You ASSUME that “brother” is ONLY used in a broad sense, but Paul in another verse mentions a brother of Jesus by name (James), and he uses the phrase “the Lord’s brother,” to distinguish him from the other apostles, so it’s clearly NOT some general “brotherhood” that includes all Christians, “but I did not see any other apostle except James the Lord’s brother.” (Gal 1:19)

    There are also references to this brother James in Mark and Josephus.

    3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon, and are not his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him. 4 Then Jesus said to them, “Prophets are not without honor, except in their hometown, and among their own kin, and in their own house.” (Mark 6:3-4)

    Wikipedia: Modern scholarship has largely acknowledged the authenticity of the second reference to Jesus in the Antiquities, found in Book 20, Chapter 9, which mentions “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James.”[13] This reference is considered to be more authentic than the Testimonium.[14][1][15][16][17][18][19]

    3) As I already quoted, Paul speaks of a betrayal just prior to the Last Supper. That’s the same story we find in the gospels. As for crucifixion, according to Strong’s Concordance, that Greek term occurs 46 times in the NT and it’s translated all 46 times in the KJV as crucify/crucifixion. You say it means “impaled on a stake,” which sounds and awful lot like crucifixion and which refutes “gay troll” in any case.

    4) Many of details from the gospels such as Jesus being from Nazareth, being a follower of John the Baptist, and being betrayed by one of his disciples and crucified are not only completely believable but also extremely unlikely to have been made up by early Christians as part of a purely literary creation. For example, Mark describes Jesus as being from Nazareth and does not discuss his birth. Matthew and Luke however go to great trouble to give contradictory explanations of how Jesus was actually born in Bethlehem. Why? Because the Messiah was supposed to come from Bethlehem, not Nazareth. But if he were a pure literary creation (which seems to be what you are arguing?) then they would have had him come from Bethlehem to begin with. This suggests Jesus probably really was born in Nazareth.

  272. IreneAthena says: • Website
    @IreneAthena

    OK You guys KNOW how bad I am with hitting Reply to keep the flow of the conversation going.
    Nope. Not Atlas Shrugged, nor The Teachings of Don Juan

    I’m going to go fix us Christmas dinner.lol Honest to God is it going to take all 12 Days of Christmas to finish this story?
    (… remember this is about coincidences.)

  273. @gregor

    Yes, troll and I are the same.

    The lack of biographical detail in Paul makes zero sense. If he knows the name of Jesus’ mother, or Jesus’ father, or Jesus’ betrayer, or Jesus’ executioner, why not mention it? He cannot even confirm such details in passing. And he would have surely known that to omit all such details would damage his credibility. If I were writing about my experiences with Donald Trump, would it make any sense for me to omit all the well known facts about his life? Would it make any sense for me to claim that I laid down Donald Trump as a foundation for others to build upon? No, if I did that I would be regarded as a crackpot. The only explanation is that Paul wrote first, and scholars agree.

    As for the Flavian Testimony, if you really want me to dissect it, I will. Josephus was a prolix Jew who mentioned a dozen other Jesuses in his histories. This is no surprise, since Jesus is the same name as Joshua, and was therefore a hugely popular name among the Jews for ~250 years before the supposed virgin birth. Josephus goes into great detail regarding some of these Jesuses. Yet when it comes to the Messiah, all Josephus says is that he came, and was executed by Pilate, and rose again. Does Josephus therefore recognize this Jesus as the Jewish King? Does he confirm the resurrection? If so, why doesn’t he spend more than two sentences on the story? He mentions the coming of the Messiah and the fulfillment of the law and the prophets in passing???

    Besides which, the early church fathers NEVER cited the Flavian Testimony. It was not cited until Eusebius in the 4th century. It is obviously Eusebius’ paraphrase of Luke interpolated into Josephus.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  274. Seraphim says:
    @IreneAthena

    Good on you! I hope that you will take it really seriously, permanently. Nativity is not about gifts under the pagan ‘Christmas tree’, brought to children by the ‘Santa Claus’ of Coca-Cola.
    Actually the gifts were brought to children by Saint Nicholas on the 6th of December, the feast day of Saint Nicholas.

    Καλά Χριστούγεννα!
    С Pождеством!
    Христос се роди!
    Hristos se naște, slăviți-l!

    • Replies: @IreneAthena
  275. anon[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dr. Fasci, America’s Doctor

    Hey gay troll. You’re quite engaged with this thread I see. But isn’t the “gay troll” bit Milo’s shtick? I’m more inclined to think you’re just a joyful troll, gay in the traditional sense.

    You make some good points here. You’re right in that anger per se is not sinful. It’s a legitimate and natural emotion that can be either positive or negative in its moral dimension. There’s righteous anger, which is directed towards injustice (e.g. the kind of anger that you mention in connection with Jesus’ driving out the merchants from the temple). Then there’s malicious anger, which is the kind that Jesus talks about in the Sermon on the Mount. Such anger is often intertwined with feelings of pride, jealousy, insecurity, etc. The latter kind of anger culminates in real harm to others when expressed in words and deeds.

    Never forget, the sermon Jesus gives in Matthew is advice for evil Jews. I am not an evil Jew and therefore Jesus tells me I have no need for his advice.

    The Sermon on the Mount is for sinners, which is all of humanity, Jews and Gentiles alike. There’s no distinction between Jews and Gentiles as far as faith in Jesus goes. Everyone is in need of Jesus’ advice. Forgiveness is available to all. It was available to the Pharisees, whom Jesus regularly denounced.

    Jesus can call anyone evil if he wants to because he’s God. However, he doesn’t do that. He calls people to repentance, even the Pharisees. He didn’t call “the Jews” evil. His followers were all Jews. He did call out the Pharisees, teachers of the law, and scribes for disobeying God and upholding an oral tradition that nullified the word of God as recorded in Scripture. That very same oral tradition, which eventually became the Mishnah and the Talmud, still has a stranglehold on Jewish people today and continues to blind them to the truth and lead them into sin, including engaging in various psy-ops and online trolling ;-). This is why Zionists and Jews generally, like non-believers the world over, are cut off from God and need to repent.

    gay troll, it’s for you to repent and turn to Jesus.

  276. @Rich

    Everything He did and what is recorded in the gospels is a commentary on the Torah… He didn’t have to explain every detail… Torah laws look much closer to socialism than unabashed capitalism…

  277. @RoatanBill

    When you volunteer to enter the military, you volunteer to take orders and those orders might mean killing people. It’s a choice to join. The swine in the military, mostly christians, decided to enlist knowing that they might be called upon to murder people.

    You don’t know anything about the military.

    Most people do not join the US military to murder people. Even during a war most people in the US military will not see combat.

    But what does it matter if someone joins the military wanting to see combat? Why are you so certain that has anything to do with Christianity? Are you going to tell me that seculars are all peaceful and never join the marines looking to get their kills in?

    The USSR was an atheistic empire and from the beginning they had atheists willing to kill for them.

    As with leftists you try to blame Christianity for aspects of human nature that pre-date Christ. Both Romans and Greeks had plenty of volunteer soldiers willing to kill for country. Was their worship of Zeus to blame?

    I, an atheist, was drafted for the Vietnam war. I refused induction and alternative service. I murdered no one.

    So what? You can find Christians that said the same thing. Quakers have long opposed drafts. The Russian soldiers of the USSR-Afghan War were heavily secular. So what? It wasn’t their decision to go to war.

    Being secular doesn’t give you some higher level of morality. The USSR quickly put an end to the theory that removing religion makes people moral. If that wasn’t enough we also had Mao and Pol Pot to drive home the point.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  278. IreneAthena says: • Website
    @Seraphim

    Yes, Seraphim, the more of Christian mystic writing I read (St. John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila… do you have any favorite Orthodox Christian mystics?), the more appealing the simple life becomes.There is so much of the deep mystery of God to explore (and our own souls through knowledge of Him), and there are so many distractions to seeking this knowledge.*

    And yet getting out and about (or into the net) and talking with folks, helping when we can is important, too.

    “Hristos se naște, slăviți-l!”

    And, “”beirtear baiste, glóir dó”,” as my great-, great-, Irish grandparents might have replied. (The English who took over Eire made Gaelic a forbidden language for some generations.)

    [MORE]

    *On the other hand, I am more and more drawn to opulence intended to reflect the glory of God (in magnificent organ music, polyphonic chants, in iconography, in stained glass, liturgical vestments, candles, incense, light-filled and spacious liturgical spaces.)

    While I was working the needlepoint for a Venerable Bede Communion kneeler for a newly built church we attend, I did a little reading up on him, and learned (among other things) that Venerable Bede had traveled from England to Ireland to convince someone of authority there to celebrate Christmas on the day the Roman Catholics did , rather than on the day he had been celebrating the Nativity, which corresponded to the Eastern Orthodox Christian Nativity feast date.

    Because of that I wondered if Eastern Orthodox Christianity (or the missionaries from the region that became officially Eastern Orthodox centuries later) might have had more influence on the earliest Irish ancestors of mine to become Christian, than did evangelists/missionaries from Rome. I’d grown up believing Saint Patrick from Rome was the first to evangelize the Irish Celts. Then I learned that Saint Patrick might have been mythical! Maybe you know of an Orthodox saint who might have preached Jesus to my ancestors?

    Who knows where I’ll end up? It’s all a wonderful, mysterious adventure.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  279. @John Johnson

    You have is ass backwards. It’s the amoral christians that claim they are superior to others because of their made up connection to some god character. I point out the lie in their narrative.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    , @IreneAthena
  280. JS Bach: Christmas Oratorio.

    Jauchzet, frohlocket, auf, preiset die Tage,
    Rühmet, was heute der Höchste getan,
    Lasset das Zagen, verbannet die Klage,
    Stimmet voll Jauchzen und Fröhlichkeit an.
    Dienet dem Höchsten mit herrlichen Chören,
    Laßt uns den Namen des Herrschers verehren.

    http://opera.stanford.edu/iu/bachlib/BWV248.HTM

    • Thanks: Iris, IreneAthena
  281. Wyatt says:
    @ivan

    No, they’re the same people. It’s just the priorities have become more libertine due to affluence and a fuckton of inbreeding courtesy of the Ashkenazis. Render unto Caesar, ya know? Whipping the money changers. They’re still the same greedy, idolatrous, self-serving bastards they’ve always been. It’s now that they have control over other, more powerful people and institutions that makes them more contemptible and more deviant.

    But they were always like this.

  282. Wokechoke says:
    @Zachary Smith

    JFinally got round to the response.

    I’ve read Mark which I feel is the definitive story of Jesus. Jesus was a profoundly disturbing personality. I tend to think that Jesus is a character designed by a Greek observer as a mockery of a Jew. Manual worker and Tradesman, Doctor with no fee, opposed to the accumulation of gold at the temple. At his trial with the Roman authority figure he goes silent and when he’s hauled up in front of the Rabbis and Priests he’s sarcastic.

    The character in the story is pretty specific. I think the Jews know he was trolling them or the writer was.

    Also the judaea described at the time was the center of Jewish gold accumulation from Parthia, Europe and Africa. Biggest pile of gold on earth in the 30s. Jesus is described as being highly critical of accumulating that war chest of gold. Gold accumulation in the era is associated with war plans.

  283. Wokechoke says:
    @Dr. Fasci, America’s Doctor

    The thing that gets interesting for me are the Roman governors after Pilate. They are mostly keen on getting Christians to bribe them a little more than the high priest tries to. Felix a Greek ethnic was a clever colonist and Porcius was even more cunning. This is all leading up to Titus sacking the city of Jerusalem and taking a Jewish princess for a wife. Many Jews were happy with the Herodian kings and prince’s and the Roman was just another goy to manipulate anyway. Romans and Jews got on alright in certain classes and castes.

  284. Wokechoke says:
    @RoatanBill

    Christianity is a Greek critique of Judaism.

  285. Wokechoke says:
    @Kratoklastes

    Jerusalem in 30AD waslike Fort Knox. A mountain of gold accumulated from all over Europe Asia and Africa deposited there by Jewish smugglers and lenders for safe keeping and funding wars along with the political campaigns of Romans friendly to the Jews.

  286. IreneAthena says: • Website
    @RoatanBill

    OK RoatanBill and Dr. Fasci, America’s Doctor: Incorrect guesses were Atlas Shrugged and The Teachings of Don Juan. If no-one has any other guess, I might just go ahead and give the answer and continue with the story later on today.

    Now! I remember the reason I started telling that coincidental book story in the first place yesterday. It had to do with the question that’s been on everyone’s mind, “what are PEOPLE WITH A MORAL COMPASS going to do about…. you know…. it?”

    …the it having gone on for a number of years. To recap:

    ….Now it’s important to note here, that the day before, a passage that had stood out to me in the Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s book The Real Anthony Fauci: Bill Gates, Big Pharma, and the Global War on Democracy and Public Health was:

    (from Chapter 12 GERM GAMES) “The United States began its first large-scale offensive bioweapons research during World War II in the spring of 1943 on orders from President Franklin Roosevelt, as a collaboration between the US military and its pharmaceutical partners. Pharma titan George W. Merck ran the Pentagon’s offensive bioweapons program while simultaneously directing his drug manufacturing behemoth…

    The intelligence agencies were involved in the top secret program from the outset. George Merck’s hands-on employee, Frank Olson, was an American bacteriologist, biological warfare scientist, and CIA officer. He worked for the United States Army Biological Warfare Laboratories (USBWL) at Fort Detrick with Merck and the US military developing the US bioweapons and psywarfare arsenal. Project Artichoke was an experimental CIA interrogation program that used psychoactive drugs like LSD in pursuit of “enhanced” interrogation methods. The project was part of a larger CIA program exploring approaches for controlling both individuals and populations. Olson was involved with Project Artichoke with moral misgivings, beginning in May 1952: after watching a documentary on Protestant reformation leader Martin Luther, a conscience-stricken Olson informed his bosses he intended to quit the biowarfare program.

    Around the time of that announcement, Olson’s CIA colleague, Sidney Gottleib, head of CIA’s MKUltra program, covertly dosed him with LSD. A week later, on November 28, 1953, Olson plunged to his death from a window of New York’s Hotel Statler [DON’T DO IT, PLEASE, IF THIS IS TRIGGERING ANYONE. CALL SUICIDE HOTLINE.] The US government first described his death as a suicide, then a misadventure. In 1975, the government admitted it’s guilt in the murder and offered Olson’s family an out-of-court settlement….* *Footnote 3: Part One: The Mysterious Death of CIA Scientist Frank Olson

    [MORE]

    It was after 1 a.m. and I couldn’t sleep. I still hadn’t finished the Robert F. Kennedy Jr. book , but I had purchased the Kindle version, and blue-screen reading after midnight doesn’t do anything AT ALL to help insomnia.

    So, I needed something on paper to read. I reached into a [REDACTED], where I have tall piles of books interspersed with hidden cans of food, you know, for “the days ahead.” (I’m not giving away any big secret to the world here, as every room in our house has tall stacks of books in it.)

    “So many books, not enough time,” is an old saying I’m saying more and more the older I get. So, I’m always thrilled when “the next thing to read” pops out at me, to make the decision easier.

    Now, who can guess which book was in my hand when I pulled my arm out of the REDACTED where all those stacks of books were? [To Be Continued….] Remember, think along the lines of “coincidence.”

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  287. IreneAthena says: • Website
    @gregor

    To gregor: That gay troll guy has his head screwed on right about some things, but eh… I’m not even going to get into it with him about Paul’s writings, because…

    [MORE]
    …if I were a gay troll, Paul’s writings would be a stumbling block for me, too and no amount of reasoning about the Bible’s trustworthiness would be likely to get me over that stumbling block. I’ve read the Bible through many times cover-to-cover, and trust it, and am continually amazed at how God speaks through it, but, with all that, even though I’m not gay, I’ve struggled — a lot — with Scriptures about certain topics. I wonder how Milo Yiannopolis is doing these days. I wonder what he’ll have to say, after a few years, about his journey with God both as a very “out” gay man and Christian, and then his journey away from the practice of homosexuality.

  288. @IreneAthena

    I know, I know!

    A book written on paper. I’m certain of it.

    Other options :
    NRA marksmanship training manual
    How to construct a guillotine.
    Noose tying 101.

    • Replies: @IreneAthena
  289. @anon

    Paul – whose real name was Sha’ul (but Hellenized) – died in Rome before the Temple was destroyed. The separation happened when the Romans then made ultimatums… By that time many non-Jews were present among the sect and so when the Roman persecution against Jews happened – the gentile believers began to split – getting wider and wider with each generation… It started with then gathering on Sunday rather than the 7th day Sabbath meeting in the synagogues…. Then all the way down the line we got re-programmed pagan holidays like the winter solstice changed to “Christmas”.

    • Replies: @anon
  290. GenFranco says:
    @Rich

    Well said. The fact that Roth uses John Dominic Crossan as his source is laughable. That a bunch of supposedly “red-pilled” right wingers here accept Crossan as a legit source inspires only pity.

    I’m reading William Thomas Walsh’s “Isabella of Spain” (highly recommended!) I got a chuckle out of thinking what Queen Isabella would’ve made of John Dominic Crossan.

    • Thanks: Rich
  291. @Sue Dunham

    Never once broke the Sabbath.

    Eye for an eye was to be carried out by the courts… Plucking out your own eye had to do with personal sin and turning the other cheek had to do with personal relationships – not a change in the Torah court system – which was made impotent by the Roman occupation. The whole point of why they were waiting for Messiah was to be saved from the Roman occupiers.

    • Replies: @gay troll
  292. Seraphim says:
    @IreneAthena

    It is established that the ‘Celtic’ monks have a more direct relation with the Fathers of the Desert, than with Rome. You must know that the Russian Church recognized all ‘Western’ Saints before the Schism as Orthodox and added them to the calendar. Some of them:
    Hieromartyr Pothinus, bishop of Lyons, and those with him (June 2/15; c. 177)
    Martyrs Blandina and Ponticus of Lyons (June 2/15; c. 177)
    Martyr Epipodius of Lyons (April 22/May 5; c. 177)
    Martyr Alexander of Lyons (April 24/May 7; c. 177)
    Hieromartyr Saturninus, first bishop of Toulouse (November 29/December 12; c. 257)
    Martyr Victor of Marseilles (July 21/August 3; c. 290)
    St. Alban, protomartyr of Britain (June 22/July 5; c. 304)
    St. Honoratus, archbishop of Arles and founder of Lerins Monastery (January 16/29; 429)
    St. Germanus, bishop of Auxerre (July 31/August 13; 448)
    St. Vincent of Lerins (May 24/June 6; c. 450)
    St. Patrick, bishop of Armagh, and enlightener of Ireland (March 17/30; 451)
    St. Lupus the Confessor, bishop of Troyes (Gaul) (July 29/August 11; 479)
    St. Genevieve of Paris (January 3/16; 512)
    St. Germanus, bishop of Paris (May 28/June 10; 576)
    St. Procopius, abbot of Sazava in Bohemia (September 16/29; 1053)

    The ‘field’ of Orthodox mystic is so consistently uniform and so intimately welded with the sacramental liturgical life, that it is hard to say that one has a ‘favorite’ saint. I would opt for such people like Saint Dionysius the Areopagite, Saint Gregory of Nyssa, Saint Maximus the Confessor, Saint John of the Ladder, Saint Symeon the New Theologian, Saint Gregory Palamas, without excluding Russian Saints like Saint Seraphim of Sarov, Saint Theophan the Recluse.

    • Replies: @IreneAthena
  293. @niner

    Idolatry is a biblical sin… There are not supposed to be “images” to observe in the first place.

  294. gay troll says:
    @showmethereal

    turning the other cheek had to do with personal relationships

    You are so wrong. Jesus said, “YOU HAVE HEARD IT SAID: AN EYE FOR AN EYE AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH. BUT I TELL YOU NOT TO OPPOSE EVIL; WHOEVER STRIKES YOUR RIGHT CHEEK, TURN TO HIM ALSO THE OTHER” (Matt 5:38). He is not talking about “personal relationships”, he is talking about getting your ass kicked. Jesus says “FEAR NOT KILLERS OF THE BODY” (10:28). He literally recommends losing your life in order to gain it. Mosaic law from its inception was concerned with criminal justice, social requirements, and the accumulation of wealth, all in the context of being YHWH’s chosen tribe. Jesus wants nothing to do with any of it. He wants you to spurn your family, to run away from home and live like a dog in the wilderness. He swears that your kingdom will come later.

  295. IreneAthena says: • Website
    @Seraphim

    Thanks for all that information, Seraphim!

    It is established that the ‘Celtic’ monks have a more direct relation with the Fathers of the Desert, than with Rome. — #298 Seraphim

    Yes, that’s what I started to suspect this summer. I notice St. Patrick c.451 is named in the list of Orthodox saints you gave, but I’m going to explore an — what would’ve been much, much earlier?— Desert Father connection.

    You must know that the Russian Church recognized all ‘Western’ Saints before the Schism as Orthodox and added them to the calendar. — #298 Seraphim

    Wow! The only saint in that list I’ve heard of is St. Patrick. I’ll bet there are some pretty good saints on that list, whose lives I will have to catch up on. I was (as you might have suspected) raised as a Roman Catholic. My dad grew up in a really rough city, where children of different races and even different brands of Christianity would get into battles, even going so far as throwing rocks sometimes. He told me that when he and his pals would walk past a Protestant church named after one of the 12 Apostles, or Mother Mary, etc, they’d yell, “There y’all go, stealing our saints!”

    [MORE]
    I walked away from seriously following any religion when I was about eleven, and I came back to Christian faith through the efforts of Protestant friends at college. My dad ended up getting along with my very, very anaBaptist husband, whom he warned when asked for my hand in marriage, “Well OK, as long as you realize she’s going to return to the Catholic Church one day, as long as you’re OK with that.”

    I have often had a chuckle imagining my (earthly) father looking down, watching my husband (completely independent of any influence from me), getting more and more drawn toward liturgical churches, and now I’m having a chuckle imagining my father, and his and my ancient, ancient, Irish ancestors, evangelized (I’m definitely open to that possibility) by Desert Fathers, having a chuckle over enlightening conversations like this one I’ve had with you.

    Thanks again for all the work you put into your remarks, Seraphim, and have a Blessed Nativity.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  296. anon[353] • Disclaimer says:
    @showmethereal

    I agree with most of what you posted. I just want to supplement it and add to it, perhaps clarifying it a little. This message is not so much directed towards you as it is towards other readers.

    The pagan holidays were replaced with Christian symbolism and given a Christian meaning as a means whereby people demonstrated their separation from their pagan history. It was a demonstration of Christianity’s triump over paganism and a celebration of Christ in a way that people could relate to. In the same way that becoming Christian for a pagan would represent a break from one’s pagan history, it would likewise represent a break from one’s Jewish history to accept Jesus Christ if someone was raised a Jew.

    It’s not necessary for Christians to observe the Sabbath on a particular day or keep any aspect of Torah law. Christians are no longer under the law but live by grace. In fact, it would be sinful for Christians to keep trying to uphold the Torah law by human effort rather than allowing God’s grace to guide their thoughts and actions. The pagan aspect of Christmas is not some kind of “corruption” of something that was not supposed to be pagan.

    Romans 14

    Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

    5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

    The main split happened during the Jerusalem Council, where it was determined that Christian believers no longer need to submit to the law of Moses. Some Jewish believers continued to do so out of custom and habit, but this was no longer necessary for anyone, Jew or Gentile alike. The number of Christian believers who felt attached to Jewish law because of nostalgia eventually diminished. This would includes second, third, fourth, etc. generation children of Jewish believers for whom it is no longer necessary to uphold Jewish law.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  297. IreneAthena says: • Website
    @RoatanBill

    Bingo, RoatanBill! It was indeed “a book written on paper,” when it could’ve just as easily been a can of sardines.

    (The book I’m about to name didn’t give any explicit instructions , but is still helpful in considering the moral, ethical bases for whatever actions might be taken…)

    (A more complete account of Frank Olson is in #292

    So to continue with the story…..

    ….So the day before the night I was battling insomnia and was casting about for something in print to read, I had been struck by this passage in my Kindle copy of Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s The Real Anthony Fauci: How Bill Gates, Big Pharma, and the Global War on Democracy and Public Health

    The intelligence agencies were involved in the top secret program from the outset. George Merck’s hands-on employee, Frank Olson, was an American bacteriologist, biological warfare scientist, and CIA officer. He worked for the United States Army Biological Warfare Laboratories (USBWL) at Fort Detrick with Merck and the US military developing the US bioweapons and psywarfare arsenal. Project Artichoke was an experimental CIA interrogation program that used psychoactive drugs like LSD in pursuit of “enhanced” interrogation methods. The project was part of a larger CIA program exploring approaches for controlling both individuals and populations. Olson was involved with Project Artichoke with moral misgivings, beginning in May 1952: after watching a documentary on Protestant reformation leader Martin Luther, a conscience-stricken Olson informed his bosses he intended to quit the biowarfare program.

    So when I reached blindly into the pile of books, the first book I pulled out was… some novel about detectives, the title doesn’t matter, because it wasn’t the print book I ended up reading. Life sometimes presents us with a fork in the road, doesn’t it? The second book I pulled out was Eric Metaxas’ Martin Luther: The Man Who Rediscovered God and Changed the World an as-of-then still unappreciated gift from my sister-in-law.

    To appreciate the original thinking and bravery of Martin Luther, one has to realize that the Roman Catholic church he stood up to in his day was as powerful, tyrannical, and difficult-to-stand-up-to as the Medical-Pharmaceutical-Corporate-Intelligence-Military-Education-Media complex we face today:

    Martin Luther was born into the final year of the reign of Pope Sixtus IV, one of a series of six popes at once so comically bungling and tragically scandalous that it was almost as though this sextet had deliberately placed their collective collections in a papier-mâché monster, hung it from a tree, and begged an Augustinian monk to take a dozen or so good whacks at it…

    …On November 11—the day following his birth—the infant [Martin Luther] was bundled and trundled a mere hundred yards away from his home to the awe-inspiring majesty of the Church of SS. Peter and Paul…Because November 11 was St. Martin’s Day – the feast day of Saint Martin of Tours – the child was given a saint’s name, a common enough practice at the time. But unbeknownst to Martin’s parents, there was a detail of this saint’s life that would one day form an eerie and seemingly prophetic parallel with the career of the newborn that day named for him.

    Saint Martin [of Tours] lived in the fourth century. He was born in what is today Hungary; grew up in what is today Pavia, Italy: and spent most of his adult life in what is today France, all three of which at that time were within the borders of the Roman Empire. He became a Christian at an early age, despite his father’s disapproval, and was enlisted in the Roman army. One day within the Gallic provinces – it was in the town of Borbetomagus, in what is today central Germany—the future saint was ordered to participate in a battle. But in the belief that shedding blood was not consonant with his deep Christian convictions, Martin bravely declared, “I am a soldier of Christ. I cannot fight.” For this shocking refusal to submit to the duty assigned him, he was imprisoned and charged with cowardice, but he turned this charge on its head by then volunteering to go to the front lines unarmed, because he did not fear for his life, only that he might take the life of another. In the end, the battle did not take place, and he was released from duty, shortly thereafter becoming a monk. The Roman city called Borbetomagus where this Martin took the death-defying stand for his faith that set him on his path of sainthood would in the future become known as the German city of Worms. Thus, eleven centuries from when this first Martin took his Christian stand against the Roman Empire, the second Martin would take his Christian stand against the Holy Roman Empire – in precisely the same place. So on the second day of his life, Martin Luther was linked with both the distant historic past and his own historic future.

    So again, there are no definite conclusions about what actions to take about…it. The important take-away for me is (1) Christians should never be reluctant, on moral grounds, to stand up to unjust authority. There is precedent for it. (2) the firmer a Chistian’s convictions are that God is on his side, the more courageous he can be in living them out in spite of severe opposition. (3) Strive to make sure that your convictions are in fact, in line with the Truth, before you undertake the courageous step of living out those convictions in a hostile environment.

    There is a very real possibility you will end up being martyred, as Frank Olson was, for standing up for the Good, the True and the Beautiful. Should you choose to follow his example, prepare yourself physically (ideas?) and spiritually for persecution, and possibly a glorious martyr’s death.

    God Bless you all as you, wherever you may be in relation to your Creator at this point, seek to do what is right.

    • Replies: @IreneAthena
  298. Seraphim says:
    @IreneAthena

    I am happy to be of help. The more that my own daughter is Irene too!
    Saint Irene the Martyr is one of the great saints of the Orthodox Church.
    Hagia Irene (Αγία Ειρήνη) the ”Holy Peace” is a church located in the outer courtyard of Topkapı Palace in Istanbul. It was the church of the Patriarch before the Hagia Sophia. It is one of the few churches in Istanbul that has not been converted into a mosque, as it was used as an arsenal for storing weapons until the 19th century.
    Of course I recommend you study the liturgies of the Orthodox Church, and its sacred art (icons, frescoes, architecture, music). And the history of the so-called Byzantine Empire and its successors (what we may call the ‘Byzantine World’).

    • Thanks: IreneAthena
    • Replies: @IreneAthena
  299. (1) Christians should never be reluctant, on moral grounds, to stand up to unjust authority. There is precedent for it. (2) the firmer a Chistian’s convictions are that God is on his side, the more courageous he can be in living them out in spite of severe opposition.

    (1) No one should ever be reluctant, on moral grounds, to stand up to unjust authority. There is precedent for it. (2) the firmer a person’s convictions are that he is right, the more courageous he can be in living them out in spite of severe opposition.

    FIFY

    Actually, there is no such thing as a person with positive authority. Authority is what one gives to a bully that demands it. It is cowardice when faced of aggression. What many people claim is authority is really a threat of violence.

    Morality is found in common sense and the golden rule, not in any religion except to the point that it borrows on that common sense wisdom.

    • Replies: @IreneAthena
  300. IreneAthena says: • Website
    @gay troll

    gay troll, the fact is, most of the decisions any of us will have to make about whether or not we’re going to be “turning the other cheek” or “praying for and loving our enemies” will indeed be about personal relationships. I have a “Bless Their Hearts” List in my prayer journal that confirms this reality in my own life. There certainly are other New Testament Scriptures where use of “the sword” is approved for those (head of a nation, city, household) defending those under their protection from evil-doers.

    As to turning-the-other-cheek to unrighteous civil authority, Jesus Christ (as well as many other sages before him) have had a pretty good handle on (1) how many wars are fought for greed and unjust power trips — the poor common soldier is just a pawn, fed propaganda about the “righteousness” of the cause. (2) how the evil powers that foment and recruit for such wars will tend to outnumber and overpower (in the natural sense) those who are following their conscience. Jesus Christ wasn’t demanding that his followers cower and “get their ass kicked.” The Christian martyrs STOOD UP to that power in a way that afforded the opportunity to verbally stand up another day, and these are the model for “peaceful resistance” that is still used today, and considered by some to be a powerful vehicle for social change… until (may the day come soon) the good outnumber the bad, and use of the sword, mentioned above, becomes an option that has a chance of success (as was the case at the end of Nicolae Ceaușescu’s tyranny over Communist Romania.)

  301. IreneAthena says: • Website
    @IreneAthena

    …and I shall add to those conclusions of RoatanBill, for those who are not likely to be reading and drawing conclusions from biographies of Frank Olson and Martin Luther.

    (1) No one should ever be reluctant, on moral grounds, to stand up to unjust authority. There is precedent for it. (2) the firmer a person’s convictions are that he is right, the more courageous he can be in living them out in spite of severe opposition.

  302. IreneAthena says: • Website
    @Seraphim

    Saint Irene the Martyr, eh? These coincidences are getting a little bit scary. Courage!

    A few years ago, one of my sisters saw my name “Irene” on something she spotted when she was travelling someplace sunny in the Mediterranean, and sent it to me as a birthday present . She is not really super religious, certainly not Orthodox Christian, so it is a wonder it came to me via her hand. It has a certificate on the back: “Holy icon, copy of authentic byzantine art, lithography, worked by experienced craftsmen on wood, with sheets of gold.”

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  303. @RockaBoatus

    You cannot get a concealed carry permit in Los Angeles nor in most Southern California cities. If it does happen, it is very rare.

    I am aware of the laws and I was explaining how to turn them towards your favor.

    If John Q Public applies for a permit in LA then you are correct that he has no chance in hell.

    That is why I was saying to apply showing a business need. You file the business first as an LLC and then apply. Do it in a nearby county if possible.

    Some security company that protects celebrities is not going to be turned down. They just drag their feet on random (White) individuals.

    Many people cannot for a host of reasons leave L.A., and so they must deal with things as they are within their own communities. In light of this, it might indeed be better to carry concealed for their own protection for as the old saying goes, ‘Better to be tried by twelve than carried by six.’

    That saying is from a different time and assumes a fair jury. You could easily get some CNN-bot jury that believes White man with gun = bad.

    I would not conceal carry illegally in LA. White people should not risk committing crimes there at any level. It is a left-wing domain and they will happily stick it to some White man that otherwise minds his business.

    It doesn’t really matter if a liberal prosecutor is going to salivate over your use of a handgun during a robbery in hopes of ‘getting another White man.’ They will do this regardless if you have a CCW permit or not.

    Having no permit gives them the chance to elevate it to felony on their discretion.

    Negative. I don’t recommend this at all. Whether you’re carrying a firearm in a purse, paper bag, or on your person, you are still viewed as in possession of a concealed handgun. Such distinctions will not be made by a prosecuting attorney.

    It can be in a locked box and I can look up the law if you want. How are people with handguns supposed to shoot them at the gun range if they can’t travel with them in a locked box?

  304. Seraphim says:
    @IreneAthena

    God works in mysterious ways!

  305. IreneAthena says: • Website
    @RoatanBill

    RoatanBill: Understood, see # 307. On this thread, I was targeting a particular audience, those Christians whom I find discouragingly docile towards the Big Pharma “authorities.” Thanks for helping me out.

  306. @anon

    But what is the meaning of grace???? Paul is the same one who said “should we continue in sin so that grace may about? God forbid”…. And how does one know what sin is??? The Torah (law) as he himself said. So was Paul saying later in the same epistle to the Romans it was now ok to translate their old pagan ways into their new beliefs? That would contradict what he told them earlier. It would also contradict what he told the Corinthians when he told them they couldn’t drink the cup of the Lord and eat from the Lord’s table and also commune with their neighbors devilish (their former pagans) celebrations.
    Read the Jerusalem Council again. James gave the ruling that there were four things the gentiles had to stop doing right away in order to be accepted… If you note – the context was they said “Moses is read in the synagogue every Sabbath”. Even in the Book of Acts – Paul was always in the synagogue on the Sabbath. Even when he got kicked out – and both Jews and Gentiles followed him – they didn’t start meeting on Sundays…

    But regardless of Paul.. If he really said those things he would be a false prophet. Anyone who teaches people to disobey commands is a false prophet no matter what signs and wonders he performs. That was spoken both in the torah as well as the gospels. Over and over from beginning to end the people were instructed not to take the ways of the heathen and use them as worship to the True God. So is Paul a false prophet??? Or are people only misusing what he said?

  307. @gay troll

    He later told His followers “the scribes and the pharisees sit in the seat of Moses – so all they tell you you must obey” – but told them to not be hypocrites like them. So make sense of that. If he wasn’t talking about interpersonal relationships like I said – why would he tell his followers to obey the rulings of those who sit in the seat of Moses?
    But there were some things they could not rule on at all – because the Romans would not let them.

  308. gay troll says:
    @anon

    Hey gay troll. You’re quite engaged with this thread I see. But isn’t the “gay troll” bit Milo’s shtick? I’m more inclined to think you’re just a joyful troll, gay in the traditional sense.

    Why can’t I be both? I assure that I am happy to take a dick up the ass.

    There’s no distinction between Jews and Gentiles as far as faith in Jesus goes.

    Incorrect, according to Jesus in Matthew, non Jews are like dogs who may be lucky to catch a scrap that falls from his table, where he sits lecturing his naughty children.

    He called the entire generation of Jews evil and adulterous. Try reading the Bible sometime. I turned to Jesus many years ago.

  309. Wokechoke says:
    @gay troll

    Jesus was the least Jewish person imaginable given your contextualization.

    • Replies: @gay troll
  310. gay troll says:
    @Wokechoke

    Precisely. Matthew is the first book of the New Testament: it sets the tone for all that follows. And it’s a satire, as the least Jewish person imaginable is given the role of the Messiah. The key to understanding Matthew’s satire is the dramatic irony inherent in the text. For one thing, the reader should know that Titus fulfilled Jesus’ prophecies regarding the coming Son of Man 40 years after the crucifixion. This is exactly when Jesus said he would “return”: within a generation. Titus accomplishes the prophecy, besieging Jerusalem and leaving not one stone of the Temple set upon another. Jesus claims to be telling the Jews how to avoid such a terrible day of judgment. But the earliest readers of Matthew would have known that it already happened.

    This is why it’s funny that Jesus teaches the Jews of his generation how to lose everything. It is a catch 22 because they can either follow Jesus to the cross right then, or wait for Titus to execute them 40 years later. The conclusion is foregone. This coupled with the fact that Matthew secretly tells his audience that Joseph is not really Jesus’ father, after proving first of all that Joseph was descended was descended from Abraham. Yikes! If Christ was born of the holy wind then he is Dionysius! He is literally preparing the way for the Roman subjugation of Judea.

  311. lydia says:
    @ivan

    The millions of beautiful paintings and songs and poems of the life of this one man points to the truth of the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. He is coming back soon to terminate the evil and diadem the right.

    Mystical Nativity Chant – In The Dark Night – Christmas Chant – Orthodox Chant – Christmas Carol

    8,717 viewsDec 24, 2021

    Patrick Lenk
    168K subscribers

    It is impossible to listen to this soulful ukrainian orthodox carol and truly understand the words without crying. This song describes the Birth of Jesus, with the Mother of God singing him a lullaby about his heavy but redeeming fate. She sings to him that he will grow up and go into the world, to teach people about the mystical Kingdom of God. She tells him he will save the world from death, but not before He, her newly born Son, would himself die on Golgotha.

    To give birth to your own God, and then sing to Him about His inevitable death, and glorious resurrection. No mother wants to outlive her son, but its an entirely separate strange and awesome thing to understand that not only will your son die, but He will also save the human race and rise from the dead.

    https://christianobserver.net/truth-justice-and-the-hydra-cult-way/

  312. lydia says:
    @Rich

    No, Christmas is Not Pagan. Just Stop.

    December 5, 2018 · Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick

    https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/asd/2018/12/05/no-christmas-is-not-pagan-just-stop/

    The Phoenix, DNA & The Jab – Part 1
    February 27, 2021 by YNightingale
    This will be the first in a 3-part series.

    A while back I posted a video by Dr. Carrie Madej warning about the COVID vaccine’s alleged DNA altering properties, but upon further reflection, I think this needs closer examination. Let’s start by looking at the “Phoenix” on her lab coat.

    https://christianobserver.net/the-phoenix-dna-the-jab-part-1/

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/this-changes-everything-observations-about-the-current-situation-in-church-and-the-state/?utm_source=top_news&utm_campaign=usa
    ————–

    Asceticism, Suffering and the Justice of God
    November 1, 2021 · Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick

    https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/asd/blog/

    The Sudden Influx into the Orthodox Church

    Ancient Faith Blogs presents a select group of writers and thinkers who regularly post on matters of theology, culture, art, parish, and family life.

    https://www.ancientfaith.com/

  313. lydia says:
    @anon

    34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

    35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

    36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

    37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

    38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

    39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

    40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

    https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-Chapter-25/
    ———–
    Isaiah 58:7

    Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
    ———-
    Roth is partially right but CS Lewis wrote:

    Jesus wasn’t original in the modern, vulgar way of being original –(Modern Art) –If what Jesus said was true, it was always true and others would have seen that the best way to live is to be honest and help people But because people can’t live up to this, Jesus came to die to forgive sins and through the Holy Ghost to help live the law of loving God and loving your neighbor.
    ———-
    Before His Passion, Jesus said His soul was sorrowful even to death but asked His disciples if He should ask to be delivered from the crucifixion and said:

    IT WAS FOR THIS PURPOSE I CAME INTO THE WORLD

    to destroy the works of the devil and set people free from sin and death

    Matthew 1:21

    And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

    https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-1-21/

  314. lydia says:
    @Ed Case

    Look up the Communitarian trap –It is like the Common Purpose promoted in Europe. Many compassionate people were fooled by Communism which offered false promises of equality to people who really were oppressed — but that is just the bait.

    By deception shalt thou make war. MOSSAD Motto

    ————
    https://www.youtube.com/c/TheJasonJonesShow/videos

    Coal For Christmas & Thank You!

    Vulnerable People Project

    Help Afghan people.

    Equipping Christians to Think Clearly About the Political, Economic and Moral Issues of Our Day.

    https://stream.org/afghan-women-are-now-forbidden-from-driving-long-distances-alone/

    Afghan Women are Now Forbidden From Driving Long Distances Alone

    Afghan Christian: Do Not Abandon Us

    “My friends, we record this video as a testimony. We want it to remain in history,” an Afghan Christian said in a video created as the Taliban took over the country. “We want it to be remembered by our friends and loved ones that today we have been left in the field by ourselves.”

    The Christian man, whose face is blurred and voice altered to protect his life, appears to be crying throughout the video. He grieves for “our beautiful country,” which “has now been destroyed by this savage and extremist group.”

    “All of our work over the last twenty years has been lost overnight,” he says. “Only God understands … how broken our hearts are.”

    Abandoned by the World

    “The whole world has abandoned us,” the man says, weeping. “Those who said they support us have now abandoned us to the worst situation imaginable. I don’t know what’s going to happen to us.”

    “But we are not leaving the field. We will fight harder and will continue in God’s work. If we are no longer with you, remember this word from our UNBROKEN hearts,” the subtitles read. He asks viewers to “remember us, the great difficulties we now face,” and not to abandon them.

    “If any of us remain, if our children remain, I have a request: Please do not leave them alone. Please take care of them. Please do not abandon them.”

    He asks viewers to “send this to all of your friends as a remembrance.”

  315. Poco says:
    @Blodgie

    Venerated for His triumph over humiliation and jew treachery. And Roman capitulation to it you cuck.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  316. Seraphim says:
    @Poco

    He is venerated for his Resurrection, the triumph over death, the proof that He is God who deserves veneration.

    • Replies: @Poco
  317. RobinG says:
    @Blodgie

    Born to lose, to suffer…

    Is that you, Don Jr.?

  318. @showmethereal

    “Passover” is a Pharisee invention made around 400 BC. This is shown by the Elephantine Letter, circa 420 BC, instructing the Jews of Egypt how to perform it. No-one had heard of it until Ezra had his writings read to the public for the first time in Jerusalem. Before Passover, there was, and still is, the Spring Sacrifice, the original Pesakh—or “compassion.” For Semites this was the substitution of a sheep for the sacrifice of the son of the patriarch. Pharisee “Passover” is an innovation that piggybacks on this original Pesakh, for Pharisee purposes. It was not observed by the Sadducees. But the Spring Sacrifice was observed by both Sadducee and Pharisee Jews until the destruction of the Temple, but no longer. And the Sadducees themselves no longer exist, since their business, the Temple-slaughterhouse, no longer exists.

    But the original Pesakh still exists for the Samaritans who still have a temple-slaughterhouse in Nablus. The Samaritans still sacrifice a sheep at Easter. And the sheep sacrifice still exists for the “Jewish-Christians,” the Ebionites, as Aid al-Kabir, the substitution of a sheep for the son of Abraham, anywhere, since the whole earth is their temple. And the original Pesakh or Spring Sacrifice still exists for the followers of Jesus in the sacrifice of himself for everyone who will believe in him.

    The followers of the Jesus movement were neither Pharisees, nor Sadducees, nor Samaritans. And they did not perform animal sacrifice. The “Last Supper,” or, more properly, the “Mystical Supper” in Greek, was not Pharisee “Passover.” It was the communal meal of the Essenes, in which Jesus, on that occasion, substituted himself for the paschal lamb for mankind, just as the Sheep was a substitute for the son of Abraham. Thus it can be called Pesakh—”compassion”— the Spring Sacrifice, or Easter, the renewal of life.

    The Christian “Pentecost” is the same as “Shavuot”—a “week of weeks after Easter,” in so far as it is the celebration of Revelation, but it is not the celebration of a Jewish revelation, it is the celebration for another revelation, the Christian revelation. Sunday—or the “Day of the Sun”—traditionally, the first day of creation in the Persian and Babylonian calendar, is a day of the week for everyone, just as Saturday, the “Day of Saturn” is a day of the week for everyone, not just for Jews.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  319. Seraphim says:

    The ‘Last Supper’ was a ‘todah’ offering, a sacrifice of ‘thanksgiving’ (which is the exact translation of ‘eucharistia’) offered by a person whose life had been redeemed or delivered from a great danger. It was also a sacrifice of praise and a sacrifice of peace.The peace offering was the only sacrifice worshipers could eat. Only part of the animal and bread (both unleavened and leavened) was offered up, and the rest was left for the person bringing the offering and anyone else in the vicinity of the sanctuary to consume.

  320. @anon

    The stranglehold on the Jewish people is more fundamental than that. Look at the word “jealous”. A jealous God. Stranglehold. Mr Jealous loves holocausts, burnt sacrifices to Him. That’s why there had to be a Nazi Holocaust. How else can we explain why Mr Jealous allowed 6 zillion Jews to be killed, didn’t intervene to save them? Because he loved it! The word Holocaust is essential to explain that. No other word can be allowed. It keeps the stranglehold on the Jews.

  321. @Peter Rabbit

    “The followers of the Jesus movement were neither Pharisees” – but many were priests… See Acts 6 “7So the word of God continued to spread. The number of disciples in Jerusalem grew rapidly, and a great number of priests became obedient to the faith.”

    So are you claiming that those people didn’t know what Passover was??? Do you have the slightest clue what the “Last Supper” was??? It was Passover. Where did you get your ideas??? The Essenes were not in Jerusalem.

    “The Christian “Pentecost” is the same as “Shavuot””…. There is no such thing Pentecost is simply the Hellenized version of the word. His disciples remained in Jerusalem after the execution until that festival. Read Acts chapters 1 and 2.

    • Replies: @Peter Rabbit
  322. Anon[350] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mustapha Mond

    You lie. ALL federal employees ( as well as state and local governments) contribute to their pensions.

  323. Poco says:
    @Seraphim

    That was the intent of my reply.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  324. Seraphim says:
    @Poco

    I do not doubt. But it must be spelled out clearly. Christianity is not about life in ‘this world’.

    ”Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.” (1 Cor 15:12-20).

    • Replies: @gay troll
  325. gay troll says:
    @Seraphim

    A great example of Paul arguing for the unseen and nonsensical, which he proclaims as the foremost attributes of his new religion. How does Paul put it; God made the things that *are not* to undo the things that are? If you want to believe in Paul’s phantom Messiah, I couldn’t care less. But when you insist that Jesus Christ was a literal historical figure who gained fame through exorcism and conjuring you undermine and contradict Paul’s message. Paul demands faith in the unseen and nonsensical. Yet John especially and the Gospels more broadly suggest that Christianity depends on a precise knowledge of ancient history. So how is it that we know about Christ? Through faith or through facts?

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  326. @showmethereal

    You make unwarranted assumptions, ignoring what there is to know. Most, but not all, Jews today are Pharisees. And yet there are, nevertheless, many different groups, from Reform (and “Society for Ethical Culture”) to Hassids, and these do not accept all of the other’s tenets. Maybe they do not not accept even most of each others tenets. The Orthodox, for example, certainly do not recognize the validity of all of the rites of the others. Then there are the Karaites who were once 40% of all Jews (they do not accept the Talmud, or even the Second Temple), and the Falashas of Ethiopia, whose actual beliefs are quite different from the Pharisees, until, that is, they end up in Israel, and are taught what they should be. And the Azerbaijani Jews are also quite different, or were quite different, but Chabad is hard at work there to straighten them out. (Until recently they called God “Allah.”) And the Central Asian Jews were quite different until the Pharisees got a hold of them.

    There was even more variety in those who were “Jewish-like” the further back one goes in time. Pharisees were a minority before 88 BC when Alexander Jannaeus crucified 800 Pharisees in 88 BC, and many fled to Alexandria. As for Essenes, they were at one point at least as important as Pharisees and Sadducees. The Essenes were one branch of the Baptizing Sects, of which there were several, perhaps even many. There were Baptizing Sects everywhere, with various degrees of Jewishness about them. And the Baptizing Sects had priests, but very different from the priests of the Sadducees. Even with a different calendar. Some of the Baptizing Sect priests called themselves “Zadokite” priests, but had nothing whatsoever to do with Zadok. (Nor did any other priests, Sadducee for example, have anything to do with Zadok, despite their claims.) “Paul,” or a group using that name as a spokesman, was writing letters to these Baptizing Sects all over Asia Minor and beyond. “James the Just of Jerusalem,” who one could call a Jew, was obviously neither a Pharisee nor a Sadducee. This “Yaakov ha-Tsadiq” was a “Bishop”—that is overseer, a mebaqqar, of the Baptists of Jerusalem. What makes you think that all people who thought of themselves as Jews had the same practices as your sect, for you do belong to a sect since you have dogmas?

    “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!”
    Why would people who said this want to observe a fake Pharisee rite like Passover invented by Ezra? The Ebionites did not observe Passover and did not observe Yom Kippur.
    Happy New Year.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  327. @Peter Rabbit

    Do you even understand why he called them hypocrites??

    And so now you believe he was an Ebionite??? I get it.. never mind.

  328. Seraphim says:
    @gay troll

    Through faith in the facts. The apostles saw the facts and are witnesses of the things that Jesus has done:
    ”So Jesus came again into Cana of Galilee, where he made the water wine. And there was a certain nobleman, whose son was sick at Capernaum. 47 When he heard that Jesus was come out of Judaea into Galilee, he went unto him, and besought him that he would come down, and heal his son: for he was at the point of death. 48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe. 49 The nobleman saith unto him, Sir, come down ere my child die. 50 Jesus saith unto him, Go thy way; thy son liveth. And the man believed the word that Jesus had spoken unto him, and he went his way. 51 And as he was now going down, his servants met him, and told him, saying, Thy son liveth. 52 Then enquired he of them the hour when he began to amend. And they said unto him, Yesterday at the seventh hour the fever left him. 53 So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house. 54 This is again the second miracle that Jesus did, when he was come out of Judaea into Galilee” (John 4:46-54).
    ”This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen” (John 21:24-25).
    They ask the people who didn’t see Jesus to believe them.
    Of course there were people who did not believe even Jesus:
    ”Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth. 36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them. 37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: 38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? 39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him. 42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue: 43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God. 44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. 45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak” (John 12:35-50).

    This is what Paul said too.

    • Replies: @lydia
    , @lydia
  329. lydia says:
    @Seraphim

    CHRISTIANITY AND THE TRUTH MOVEMENT: HOW MUCH DO THEY COINCIDE?

    https://jamesperloff.com/category/religion/
    Winning with the Old World Order – James Perloff’s journey to Orthodox Christianity.
    5,559 viewsNov 29, 2017

    Dean Arnold
    1.21K subscribers

    James Perloff is a prominent author exposing the New World Order, formerly a contributing editor of the John Birch Society’s “New American” magazine, and a prolific alternative news writer. He share his journey to Eastern Orthodoxy and finding the church that follows the Early Church in its beliefs and practice.
    [[(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yYco9js48o%5D%5D%5D

    I HAVE JOINED THE EASTERN ORTHODOX FAITH
    On November 18, 2017, I became a baptized, chrismated member of the Orthodox Church.

    An Orthodox Christian revival is sweeping Russia, where more than 25,000 new churches have opened since the Soviet Union collapsed.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  330. Seraphim says:
    @lydia

    God bless you!

    • Replies: @lydia
  331. hillaire says:
    @gay troll

    hehe…..’heteronormative’…. hehe hehe hehe…. you kwares always kwaring even with old Jesus himself.. always good for a chuckle you kwares..

    yes yes…

  332. lydia says:
    @Seraphim

    Thank you, sometimes it does feel like Christian are alone with the deception in the Christian world that goes beyond the mind control of world citizens with believing the government about 911 the wars and now the poison shot.

    Have just started reading a little about the kosher pig, I don’t blame all jews for the sabbateans, we can’t even stop the wars or mandates.
    ———-
    https://johnmacarthur.forumchitchat.com/post/the-muddy-and-bloody-pagan-games-of-ken-rameys-lakeside-bible-church-10065910

    The Muddy and Bloody Pagan Games of Ken Ramey’s Lakeside Bible Church
    John Macarthur Cult Watch Forum

    It’s truly amazing that this degrading and debasing practice was going on at Ken Ramey’s Christian youth camp. I wonder if it’s even legal to make kids lie in mud while blood is being poured on them. How many parents knew this was going on? How few know this is encouraged by John Macarthur’s occult practices?

    Mar 24, 2021
    The reason why the Jewish “Christian” leaders like John Macarthur and Ken Ramey pour pig’s blood on Christian youth is because they believe Jesus Christ is basically a pig and therefore pig’s blood should be poured on His youth.

  333. lydia says:
    @Seraphim

    I have been reading The Vulnerary of Christ: the mystery of the 5 sacred wounds— Vulnerary is a medical term meaning wound healing.

    https://thewatchmanwakes.org/john-macarthur-and-the-blood-of-christ/

    We shall not overcome Satan if we are fine gentlemen, fond of ease and honor. As long as Christian people must needs enjoy the world, the devil will suffer little at their hands. They that overcame the world in the old days were humble men and woman, generally poor, always despised, who were never ashamed of Christ, who only lived to tell of His love, and died by tens of thousands rather than cease to bear testimony to the blood of the Lamb. They overcame by their heroism; their intense devotion to the cause secured the victory. Their lives to them were as nothing when compared with the honor of their Lord.
    ———————
    Oh my gosh, it just occurred to me reading these posts, that he pours pig’s blood on the kids, and ALSO denies that His blood SAVES US! He claims Jesus needed to die on the cross because it “conveys the violence of it.” Jesus Christ says to YOU, John MacArthur, “Have I been with you so long and you still don’t know Me?”–if he knew God, he would know that one of the Psalms says “He who loves violence, my soul hates.” God Himself hates violence and those who love it, and Jesus died on the cross because He took OUR PUNISHMENT, and as Scripture says, “Cursed be anyone who’s nailed to a tree.” And His blood was shed for the atonement of our souls (though JMac says “There’s nothing in His blood that can save us”). Whoa…

    https://regenerationandrepentance.wordpress.com/2016/04/14/the-blood-of-the-lamb-how-do-we-battle-with-satan-in-the-heavenlies-part-four-finale/

    https://regenerationandrepentance.wordpress.com/2016/04/13/the-blood-of-the-lamb-how-do-we-use-this-conquering-weapon-part-three/#navigation

    Yes, Macarthur has been teaching for 40+ years that “The blood of Jesus Christ has no power to save” and his ministers are pouring pig’s blood on children. Macarthur’s X-Change Ministry had children licking dead animal parts. Recall Macarthur’s Druid Festival, Camp Regen, where he had the kids playing with dead pig’s heads. The message is clear: John Macarthur considers Jesus Christ and Christians to be only SWINE! But they all still worship him.

    • Replies: @lydia
  334. lydia says:
    @lydia

    The Council for National Policy by Barbara Aho

    Activism / By Sharlene Music

    Educate Yourself “This two part treatise by Barbara Aho offers a well referenced and damning indictment of the players on the American side of the one world government scheme (especially the role played by the pseudo Christian religious right) and the British oligarch elites who are the ultimate string pullers, planners, and architects behind the destruction of the United States and the entire globalist, genocidal agenda.

    https://musicians4freedom.com/2012/03/the-council-for-national-policy-by-barbara-aho/

    ERETZ ISRAEL & THE LAST TRUMP
    https://watch.pairsite.com/eretz-israel-last-trump.html

    Bella Dodd — How Communists Subverted the Catholic Church

    https://justice4poland.com/2018/09/21/bella-dodd-how-communists-subverted-the-catholic-church/

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments on articles more than two weeks old will be judged much more strictly on quality and tone


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
$
Submitted comments have been licensed to The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Commenting Disabled While in Translation Mode
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Robert Roth Comments via RSS
PastClassics
The Surprising Elements of Talmudic Judaism
How America was neoconned into World War IV
Talk TV sensationalists and axe-grinding ideologues have fallen for a myth of immigrant lawlessness.