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In response to Ron Unz’s “The Remarkable Historiography of David Irving”, this note will pick up on and elucidate the reader-comment to that from James N. Kennett, which stated: “It seemed to me that the problem with his work was not the possible inaccuracy of the details that he included – but the things he had left out. Anyone can tell a good story by leaving out the evidence that does not fit. Irving also coined the phrase ‘the Auschwitz Survivors, Survivors of the Holocaust, and Other Liars—A.S.S.H.O.L.E.S.’ You don’t have to be a supporter of the Holocaust Industry to realise that this is crass insensitivity, and an ahistorical insult to those who did survive. Far from indicating a historian of unique genius, it is the product of a perverted mind.” (I have added the link there — it wasn’t provided by Kennett — to an apt comment about it that had been posted at “Good Reads.”)

My 2000 book WHY the Holocaust Happened (the publisher subsequently went out of business, and so it’s no longer available) discusses both the history and the historiography of the Holocaust; and, while the writings of David Irving are not mentioned there (but more ‘respectable’ proponents of his ‘weak dictator’ interpretation of Hitler were), it presented, regarding Mr. Irving, lots of (as Kennett has put it), “the things he had left out,” and that I think invalidate Irving’s works, because the motivation behind those omissions is clear and is not considered acceptable by most historians. Here are some of those omissions — things left out altogether, or else unjustifiably denigrated, by Irving — (with page-references to where the given excerpts appear in my book):

Pages 229-230:

Despite the transparent frauds of the Holocaust-deniers inside and outside academia, there is no serious question that the Holocaust existed and that it constituted a crime of unimaginably vast scope. Equally without doubt — again notwithstanding hoaxers both inside and outside the universities — is the fact that Adolf Hitler held the motive for the crime, and that the Nazi Party and the other perpetrators “on the ground” were his instruments in carrying it out. According to Adolf Eichmann, Chief of the Bureau for Jewish Affairs at the Reich Security Headquarters, in his 1983 Eichmann Interrogated (p. 75), it was in August or September 1941 that his boss “Heydrich sent for me. I reported. … He began with a little speech, then said, ‘The Führer has ordered physical extermination.’ These were his words. … The Führer had ordered the physical extermination of the Jews.” And (xxii, 92) Eichmann also acknowledged that by no later than 21 September 1939, Heydrich had made known to him the “basic conception” of “the physical extermination of the Jews” as “the ultimate aim” that was “promulgated by Hitler.” Eichmann’s recollection was exact to the day: Heydrich’s official order, referring to “the final goal (which will require a lengthy period),” was dated 21 September 1939. On 31 July 1941 Göring instructed Heydrich to draw up detailed plans for “the desired final solution of the Jewish question” (document 710-PS in Trial of the Major War Criminals). Hitler’s signature even appears on the document (630-PS) dated 1 September 1939 authorizing the “euthanasia” of the disabled and other “incurables.” The physicians had wanted that in writing, and got it. And in his Secret Conversations (Table Talk) of 21 October 1941, Hitler concluded his long tirade against Jews: “By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea.” Himmler publicly stated in a speech on 24 February 1943 that this was necessary in order to have “exterminated a bacterium because we do not want in the end to be infected by the bacterium and die of it.” Hitler’s guilt in the Holocaust is beyond any reasonable doubt, regardless of what neo-Nazis say.

p.218:

By January 1939, Hitler’s official policy was for the expulsion of all Jews. By June 1940, it was for their expulsion specifically to Madagascar — a goal even less practicable than expulsion itself, since the “Madagascar Plan” required as prerequisites the defeat of both France and England, and could thus realistically not even be considered as a short-term measure which is what it was presented as being. Hitler knew better. And along the way, he skillfully set up numerous highly visible public displays of the unwillingness of foreign nations to accept the flood of dispossessed Jews that he was offering as refugees. (As Rudolph Binion noted in his 1976 Hitler Among the Germans, pp. 29-30, Hitler had even fired Reichsbank chief Hjalmar Schacht early in 1939 because Schacht had been too effective in promoting the expulsion of Jews; and both Binion, and Richard Breitman’s 1991 The Architect of Genocide, pp. 50-1, documented that even Hitler had acknowledged that expulsion of Jews was really intended as nothing more than “exporting anti-Semitism.”) Hitler gleefully observed the embarrassment of other countries that proclaimed their opposition to anti-Semitism but that turned a cold shoulder to these desperate refugees. Hitler was trying expulsion; other nations just refused to receive what he was offering them. The United States, for example, not only did not increase its immigration-quota for Jews; it failed even to admit as many Jews as the official quota permitted. David S. Wyman’s 1984 The Abandonment of the Jews documents (pp. 100, 365, 410) the repeated refusal of President Franklin D. Roosevelt to meet with Jewish leaders to deal with the problem, and also establishes the President’s own personal knowledge of the Nazis’ anti-Semitic exterminations. For Hitler, such international response was itself part of the “sleepwalking” toward genocide. By the time of the Wannsee Conference on 20 January 1942 to coordinate the actions of all state agencies involved with the “final solution,” all participants were reading their respective roles from a playbook written by none other than the Führer himself. And by that time, they were all prepared for those roles — knew them by heart, actually. When three days later, on 23 January, Hitler in his Secret Conversations (Table-Talk) addressed Himmler sarcastically about the matter, Himmler understood very well what he meant by saying of his policy toward the Jews, “I’m extraordinarily humane. … But if they refuse to leave voluntarily, I see no other solution than extermination.”

Page 15:

Obviously, the Holocaust occurred within the context of a World War; yet it actually drained the attention of Hitler and of his fighting forces away from the war-effort, needlessly hardened the worldwide opposition to Germany, and transformed into outright enemies talented people who might otherwise have been neutral or even supportive as “patriotic Germans.” Judged purely as a military tactic, the Holocaust was at best dubious, and at worst counter-productive. Horst von Maltitz perceptively observed in this regard in his 1973 The Evolution of Hitler’s Germany (p. 171), that “railroad transport trains carrying Jews from the West to extermination camps in Poland were given priority over trains for urgently needed troops and war supplies. Moreover, skilled Jewish laborers, desperately needed in the munitions plants in occupied Poland, were carted off to extermination centers, in spite of strong objections by plant managers.” And according to the Polish Ambassador, Jan Ciechanowski, in his 1947 Defeat in Victory (p. 179), he had personally handed U.S. President Roosevelt in the White House on 28 July 1943 a memo that, “The unprecedented destruction of the entire Jewish population is not motivated by Germany’s military requirements. Hitler and his subordinates aim at the total destruction of the Jews before the war ends and regardless of its outcome.” The basic question thus is posed: what was the relationship between Germany’s war effort and the Holocaust? Which served which; what was Hitler’s ultimate objective?

The Führer’s words right before his suicide — his final, supreme, statement of his war-aims — urged his people to continue the war, until victory, against what he held to be the sole real enemy: “the poisoner of all nations, international Jewry.” The enemy for him was Jews in all nations; this also sheds light on why over 96% of the Jews slaughtered in the Holocaust did not come from Germany. We shall indeed show that, for Hitler, defeat of the enemy entailed nothing less than the extermination of all Jews.

In other words, for Hitler, the Holocaust — the “final solution” — was not a military device, it was a military goal; in fact, it was the central military goal, which took precedence over even the expansion of Lebensraum. In order to understand why the Holocaust happened, it therefore is necessary to understand why Hitler hated Jews so fanatically and so obsessively that nothing less than their total extermination would satisfy him.

Those are the key excerpts regarding the viewpoint that David Irving presents.

Irving states that Hitler didn’t know about whatever extermination of the world’s Jews was intended, if any was intended. However, Irving doesn’t deny that local exterminations were carried out. Irving alleges that Hitler’s subordinates knew about and wanted these local atrocities, but that Hitler wanted only that Jews be expelled from everywhere to be sent to Madagascar. However, such expulsion was actually the intention and expectation of Hitler’s finance-chief, Hjalmar Schacht, and Hitler finally demoted him, perhaps for that very reason. Hitler certainly didn’t want Schacht to know what his plans for the Jews actually were. Hitler just wanted some rich Jews to buy their ways out, since he tried to postpone for as long as possible anyone’s knowledge of what his intended “Final Solution to the Jewish problem” actually was. Furthermore, as my book noted, Hitler wanted to make things as difficult for FDR and for Churchill as he could. He did everything possible to avoid leaks regarding what his intentions were, and especially regarding why he held those intentions. Also, Irving noted, in a footnote, that Eichmann had testified to having been informed by Heydrich that “The Führer has ordered physical extermination,” but Irving simply dismissed that by saying: “There is no primary or secondary documentary support for such a statement. This kind of evidence, of course, would not suffice in an English magistrate’s court to convict a vagabond of bicycle stealing.” He dismisses everything that doesn’t fit with his image of Hitler — “probably the weakest leader Germany has known this century,” as Irving said in the Introduction to the 1977 edition of Hitler’s War. The 1991 edition changed this to “Hitler was a far less omnipotent Führer than had been believed, and his grip on his subordinates had weakened with each passing year.” Of course, that’s saying the closer that events got to the actual perpetration of the Holocaust, the less responsible for whatever it was, Hitler was, in Irving’s view. To Irving, Germans were tragic victims, but many of them overreacted to the abuses that they had received from Britain, Jews, communists, and some others.

While my book doesn’t mention Irving, it does deal extensively with (among others) a writer about the Holocaust who seems to hate Germans as much as Irving seems to hate Jews: Daniel Goldhagen. The problem with both writers is that they are tribal (one a “Jew” and the other an “Aryan” — i.e., pureblooded Christian, or, at least, not “Jew”), though writing from the opposite tribal standpoints. To be a historian, instead of merely some kind of propagandist, requires abandonment of any tribalism at all. Unfortunately, Goldhagen’s tribalism is considered acceptable, whereas Irving’s isn’t. Today’s Palestinians — and many others — are victims of Goldhagen’s particular form of tribalism. But perhaps as the Holocaust recedes from view, with the passage of the decades, tribalism itself is becoming fashionable again, too. In fact, tribalism seems to be coming into vogue again throughout the world. Look, for example, at what the U.S. Government and its Saudi and UAE partners are doing to the Houthis, a Shiite tribe, in Yemen. Even genocide is becoming ‘acceptable’ again (certainly to America’s Government and its allies). The restoration of Irving to ‘acceptability’ is just a part of that broader trend.

 

Investigative historian Eric Zuesse is the author, most recently, of They’re Not Even Close: The Democratic vs. Republican Economic Records, 1910-2010, and of CHRIST’S VENTRILOQUISTS: The Event that Created Christianity.

 
• Category: History • Tags: David Irving, Holocaust, Jews, World War II 
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  1. I’m sorry. I’d be all for reading a coherent summary of the evidence that Hitler did order the Holocaust — but this ain’t it.

    I got half-way through the second excerpt before I gave up. We’d already logged one fact that argued against Hitler having ordered the Holocaust — his willingness to sign an order for the euthanasia program. Obviously — or one would think it was obvious — a demonstrated willingness to sign other orders for mass murder hardly bolsters the case for the argument that Hitler wanted the Holocaust but was unwilling to issue a written order for it.

    Then we have a simple irrelevancy — Himmler’s acknowledgment of the Holocaust. Then there’s a misrepresentation of the facts. Supposedly, Hitler was being grossly and consciously unrealistic when he proposed the Madagascar Plan in June 1940 because that would have required the defeat of France and Britain.

    Ahem. France was defeated in June 1940. Hitler did indeed think Britain was as well. So it would seem that the Madagascar Plan was proposed in all seriousness. Far from France and Britain being defeated being a pipe-dream, that June it seemed to be a reality.

    Finally, we have the claim that Schacht was fired because he was too successful at resettling Jews.

    ! Schacht was fired because he wouldn’t endorse Hitler’s increasingly risky ploys to finance rearmament — not because he succeeded in driving Jews out of Germany.

    I am skeptical of Irving’s thesis; it’s distinctly improbable that one could murder six million people without the nation’s leader even noticing. As I say, I’m all for reading an article that effectively marshals the evidence for the counter-argument. This piece isn’t it, however.

  2. FKA Max says: • Website

    This is slightly off-topic, but I wanted to share this book review for a while, and I think this the appropriate venue to do so:

    Looking Back in Anger

    Reviewed by Peter Novick
    Sunday, May 1, 2005

    BURIED BY THE TIMES

    The Holocaust and America’s

    Most Important Newspaper

    By Laurel Leff. Cambridge Univ. 426 pp.

    And there was sometimes a calculated reason for deemphasizing special Jewish victimhood. Americans were far more focused on the Japanese than on the German enemy (“Remember Pearl Harbor”). That the Nazis were the enemy of the Jews was well known; the task was to portray Nazi Germany as the mortal enemy of “free men everywhere.” Hence the (sometimes exaggerated) emphasis on other victims. And, given continued high levels of anti-Semitism in the United States, not emphasizing Hitler’s war against the Jews was an attempt to sidestep the claim that America was engaged in a war for the Jews.
    [...]
    In the United States the Zionist Jewish Frontier warned against forgetting “what was done to the Czechs, the Poles, the Jews, the Russians.” Universalizing the portrayal of Nazi barbarism was a common strategy to discredit the idea that the war against Nazi Germany was a war for the Jews. One can argue, as Leff does, that this concern was exaggerated, but if ever a strategy was “well meant,” this was it.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/28/AR2005042801313.html Archived link: http://archive.is/unVm6 Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buried_by_the_Times#cite_note-10

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  3. ‘…Hitler certainly didn’t want Schacht to know what his plans for the Jews actually were. Hitler just wanted some rich Jews to buy their ways out, since he tried to postpone for as long as possible anyone’s knowledge of what his intended “Final Solution to the Jewish problem” actually was…’

    If Hitler didn’t actually want the Jews to leave Germany, he was spectacularly ineffectual. Something like half of Germany’s Jews did succeed in leaving before the war. Ironically, Germany’s Jews would up with one of the higher rates of national survival among the various Jewish populations of Europe because of this. They were warned in good time, and got out.

    There probably is an effective counter-argument to Irving’s thesis out there. However, this ain’t it. The author presents us with a porridge of irrelevancies, inaccuracies, and even evidence that undermines his own thesis and supports Irving’s.

    • Replies: @Thomm
    , @Reinhard Horn
  4. Thomm says:

    Speaking of Hitler, Roosh wrote a famous article about how White Trashionalists are using that as a crutch :

    http://www.rooshv.com/are-there-differences-in-race

    “I strongly suspect that active participation in white nationalist circles is a cover for feelings of personal inferiority.”

    He is way too generous. He says it is only ‘feelings’. I say it is outright, self-evident inferiority of defective whites relative to mainstream whites like me.

  5. I never questioned a word of it, not even the lampshades or the soap stories, until Irving was punished for his views. Since then, what I find to be “crass insensitivity, and an ahistorical insult” is the endless repetition of the Six Million Lie when in fact over 55 million people did die as a result of WWI, and “somehow” that incredible number has been relegated to a lesser place in history due to the creation of the Jewish victimhood meme. WWII was simply a continuation of WWI which was largely brought about, deliberately for the purpose of profit, control and creating a New World Order, by financiers in London and NY, most of whom claimed to be Jews.

    Certainly people of all stripes suffered, war by definition is evil, but since the word holocaust means a burnt offering I would think that the fire bombing of civilians in cities better fits that description than The Holocaust mythology based on gassings and incinerations on an industrial scale for which little to no hard evidence exists and much of what does can be shown to have been fabricated. It’s interesting also that both Britain and the US built a variety of four engined, long range, heavy bombers ideal for laying waste to large civilian centres whilst Germany built none.

  6. peterAUS says:

    Good article, overall.

    Of particular interest:

    ……what was the relationship between Germany’s war effort and the Holocaust? Which served which; what was Hitler’s ultimate objective?

    with

    …..it was the central military goal, which took precedence over even the expansion of Lebensraum.

    Feels, just, too focused on one man and military matters only. War effort is a bit more than just “military matter”.
    I’d just rephrase into:

    ……what was the relationship between Germany’s war effort and the Holocaust? Which served which; what was the Nazi regime ultimate objective?

    with

    …..it was the central war objective, which took precedence over even the expansion of Lebensraum.

    • Agree: Momus
  7. Thomm says:
    @Colin Wright

    If Hitler didn’t actually want the Jews to leave Germany, he was spectacularly ineffectual. Something like half of Germany’s Jews did succeed in leaving before the war.

    I always wondered why only half left. If it was easy to leave for a multi-year window, why risk it at all? Were the ones who stayed the ones who owned too much land or had a business that they refused to abandon?

  8. Mabuse says:

    It’s not A.S.S.H.O.L.E.S “The Auschwitz Survivors, Survivors of the Holocaust, and Other Liars”; it’s
    ASSHOL: Association of Spurious Survivors of the Holocaust and Other Liars.

  9. Funny, really funny.
    No matter who ordered Holo.
    Mr. Adolf organised the totalitarian Germany -> was an enabler of Holo.
    Perfectly normal Germans (not the SS, not the KL guards) killed over 200 000 KL prisoners in spring 1945, during the Death Marches through Lover Silesia.
    They did it because The State told them they can and they should.
    No matter who ordered – grandpa Hitler signed under all this and he was responsible.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @peterAUS
    , @Curmudgeon
  10. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Colin Wright

    Ahem. France was defeated in June 1940.

    You never saw Casablanca? Remember where Rick and Captain Renault decide to go at the end? Brazzaville:

    During World War II Brazzaville and the rest of French Equatorial Africa remained beyond the control of Vichy France; the city served as the capital of France Libre from 1940–1943.

    • Disagree: utu
    • Replies: @ploni almoni
  11. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Thomm

    I always wondered why only half left. If it was easy to leave for a multi-year window, why risk it at all?

    One problem was finding a place that would take you in, no?

    • Replies: @dearieme
    , @Svigor
  12. @Thomm

    ‘I always wondered why only half left. If it was easy to leave for a multi-year window, why risk it at all? Were the ones who stayed the ones who owned too much land or had a business that they refused to abandon?’

    Well, (1) German Jews were very assimilated; rates of intermarriage, etc were very high. German Jews were Germans, and until Kristallnacht the general hope seems to have been that it would all somehow blow over.

    (2) It wasn’t so easy to get out; few countries wanted immigrants at all, much less Jews.

    Nevertheless, by the time war broke out, those left were disproportionately the poor and elderly. Obviously, for these groups, somehow getting abroad and making a new life were particularly daunting prospects. After all, thirty year old Colin might be perfectly willing to move to New Zealand, and so would sixty year old Colin if he had a few million dollars. Impoverished, elderly Colin would find the prospect daunting, and anyway, New Zealand probably wouldn’t let him in.

  13. utu says:

    Eric Zuesse hates Christianity and Catholic Church in particular, so he decided to implicate it in Holocaust claiming that Hitler’s true motives behind planning and executing the Holocaust was Christianity. Just another Christianity hating kook.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @bjondo
    , @Eric Zuesse
  14. The essential question for me about WWII, from the point of view that jews caused this war in order to get regime change in Germany, is: was Hitler justified in reducing jewish power in Germany, or were jews justified in causing war to removed Hitler ?
    I already posted an interesting link here, found just now with Russia Today.

    Those interested in the question I can recommend three books by jews:

    ‘Christianity and the Holocaust of the Hungarian Jewry’, Moshe Y Herclz, 1993 New York University press

    ‘From prejudice to destruction’, Jacob Katz, 1980, Cambridge MA

    Ismar Schorsch, ‘Jewish Reactions to German Anti-Semitism, 1870 – 1914′, New York 1972

    But the present situation in the USA is enough to answer the question.
    To what extent there was a holocaust, does it matter ?
    WWII caused some ten million German deaths.

  15. @Thomm

    In 1938, it seems, the relationship between German jews and the Hitler regime had stabilised.
    Therefore, again, it seems, jewry provoked the Kristallnacht by murdering a German diplomat in Paris.
    René d’Argile, etc., Das Geheimnis um die Ursachen des Zweiten Weltkrieges, Wiesbaden 1958 ( Les Originals Secrêtes de la Guerre 1939 – 1945, Paris 1958).

    • Replies: @Anon
  16. @FKA Max

    From quite a few books one can learn that FDR, Churchill and Stalin did anything they could to prevent the idea that WWII was a jewish war.
    The jewish declaration of war on the Hitler regime of 1933 is seldom mentioned, yet USA newspapers had big headlines ‘Judea declares war on Germany’.
    In the Netherlands in WWII the underground press reported about death camps, those living at the time did not believe it, a relative told me.
    Another relative was convinced that those deported faced death, do not know why.
    Faurisson read, if I remember correctly, 15.000 pages of WWII memoirs by FDR, Churchill, De Gaulle, etc.
    No mention of genocide on jews.
    Decoded Enigma messages made clear that far more entered the camps than left.
    Yet, at the end of 1944 Ben Gurion did not want the Auschwitz camps bombed ‘jews might be killed’.
    The possibility that the majority of the deaths was causes by the camp management of inmates of course cannot be true.
    Yet even Elie Wiesel describes it.
    He never saw a gas chamber, just assumed that they existed.
    If now Israel succeeds in causing a world war, the last, nobody will survive, in the effort to get regime change in Teheran, who will see this last world war as a jewish war ?
    I will.

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @my2cents
  17. @Colin Wright

    ” I am skeptical of Irving’s thesis; it’s distinctly improbable that one could murder six million people without the nation’s leader even noticing ”

    But what if it did not happen ?
    Even jew Klemperer wusste nicht, those he visited after the Dresden bombing made it possible to travel to old acquintences, new identity, far away, did not even know that jews were persecuted.
    ANONYMOUS, ‘The Myth of Six Million’, Los Angelos, 1973, 1969
    Victor Klemperer, ‘I will bear witness, A diary of the Nazi years, 1942-1945’, New York 1999

  18. j2 says:

    I apologize for a too long comment, but cannot make it shorter. I have always found problematic the view that Hitler did not know of the genocide of 6M Jews if it happened. The task is to prove that it happened.

    I find the following a convincing and sufficient argument that the official account of the holocaust is wrong: There were slightly over 3 million Jews in the Western countries and Western Poland or transported from the East to West who could have died or survived in any manner in the countries under German control outside the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia and Romania. Starting from this 3M we subtract known survivors 0.41M, transported to Sobibor,Treblinka, Belcez 1.45M, Chelmno 0.1M, died in Majdanek 0.059M, died in work camps and ghettos in Poland 0.17M, died in Theresienstadt 0.03M, died in camps in Germany 0.3M, survived in Western Poland not caught by Nazis 0.08M. Together there sum to 2.6M meaning that in Auschwitz could have died maximum 400,000 Jews. It is claimed that in Auschwitz died 1-1.5M Jews. Consequently, the official account is wrong and it is not proven that 6M died. Indeed, from total figures before 1939 and in 1946 follows that 4.5M Jews are missing assuming that the Soviet figures for 1939 are correct, which is improbable, and 3.5M assuming that 1M more that admitted migrated to the USA before 1939, which is highly probable based on the US statistics. A further reduction to 3.5M is possible in case there were fewer Jews in Eastern Europe in 1939. This cannot be neither confirmed nor refuted.
    I will next go to the arguments posed by Eric Zuesse.

    The term physical extermination appears in the interrogation of Eichmann. I must admit that this information should be supported by something more concrete and as it is not supported by anything, it is of little weight. Rudolf Höss for instance says in his memories contradictory things: Nazi witnesses cannot be always trusted to tell the truth. In the other places there is extermination instead of physical extermination indicating that extermination does not necessarily mean physical extermination. This distinction must have been the reason why the Eichmann’s statement mentions physical extermination and if we exclude that statement, then it allows understanding the other cases as extermination, possibly not physical. (The word can mean removal, uprooting). “Other incurables” in the euthanasia order cannot without reasonable doubt be interpreted as an order to physically exterminate the Jews. The final plan was prepared, but the only plan known is of transfer to the East and unclear goal of eventually settling the Jews somewhere after the war. This passage from Zuesse’s book does not prove Hitler’s guilt without reasonable doubt.

    Second quote. The sentence “I’m extraordinarily humane. … But if they refuse to leave voluntarily, I see no other solution than extermination” suffers from the same problem, it uses the term extermination, not physical extermination. I doubt Hitler ever took the Madagascar plan seriously. His goal in my opinion was to move Jews to Palestine. In his library is a book with Hitler’s underline on restoration of the Jews to Palestine. It fits to Hitler’s Jewish financiers and to his claim that the war was created by the Jewry. Certainly I can agree that neither Hitler, nor Zionists, wanted Jews to escape all over the world as it would only create Anti-Semitism where there was not, as Herzl said. The goal was Israel.

    Third quote. What possible gains did Hitler imagine from physical extermination of Jews in Europe if there still were millions of Jews in the USA? They would return to Europe. Think of your Hitler quote: if the Jews do not leave voluntarily, the only solution is extermination. It does not say physical extermination and can mean forced uprooting, removal. Where Hitler wanted them to leave voluntarily, as not everywhere in the world just to create new Anti-Semitism? What did Hitler think was the goal of international Jewry in the Balfour declaration that caused the loss of Germany in WWI? All of these question have the same answer: Palestine, to create Israel. International Jewry headed by millionaire bankers wanted Jews to create Israel. Only that would stop Anti-Semitism. Killing even every European Jew would not achieve it as there were American Jews. Killing European Jews would only result to the Jewry creating a new war in the USA to push the Jews to Palestine. Many would surely die in such a transfer operation, but that was acceptable as there had to be for cleansing of the people, a predicted sacrifice, a holocaust, without which there could not be redemption and no Exodus and restoration. God says, do not come in front of me empty handed. A sacrifice is needed. The poisoner of all nations, international Jewry, could not be destroyed by killing European Jews, it could only be destroyed by doing what the Jewry wanted. And this Jewry believed that it was the only solution to Anti-Semitism, the final solution, the final fulfillment of prophesy.

    Zuesse writes correctly, apologists of either the Aryan or the Jewish positions (but Zuesse is one of them) cannot describe the events correctly. Someone who is neither can do it more objectively. We are talking about a Messianic plan, not Lebensraum or military goals.

    • Replies: @duster
  19. Robert A. says:

    I had a patient in a hospital in Northern California a number of years ago. She was a German woman, a “war bride”. She told me she was from a very high aristocratic German family. Her grandfather had been the Kaiser’s war secretary. All the male relatives were die-hard fervent devotees of Hitler. The women all hated him. I suggested to her that maybe the holocaust and WW2 were really not just Hitler’s plan but a collective plan of many Germans. She then told me firmly that the whole affair over there was all Hitler’s doing. She was right there in the middle of it all. Documents and scholars can be extremely deceptive. But she was an eye-witness in the middle of it. This is what she told me she saw. She told me this lying on a hospital bed late one night.
    She said her family lived on the western side of Germany and was at home with the other female family members when an American jeep drove up towards the house. All the male family members were away. She was just a young woman and the other women there pushed her out the front door towards the GI’s. She half expected to be raped. But the soldiers instead gave her Vogue magazines, nylon stockings and I think chocolate too. She ended up marrying one of them. She told me that the wealthy women on the east side of Germany all carried cyanide pills in case of rape, but the American soldiers had a little better reputation. This conversation took place about 20 years ago.

    • Replies: @bjondo
    , @bj
  20. anon[332] • Disclaimer says:

    Let’s say Hitler didn’t order the Holocaust – but it was still, to some significant, if exaggerated, extent, carried out.

    So what?

    “Hitler didn’t know and give the orders.” So what? Does this change our understanding of history? Are white people no longer obligated to ethnically cleanse themselves from their own nations through mass immigration?

  21. @Thomm

    They were often poor (I’m not 100% sure but I believe it cost a lot to “get out” of Germany)

    • Replies: @Uebersetzer
  22. kikl says:

    “Heydrich’s official order, referring to “the final goal (which will require a lengthy period),” was dated 21 September 1939. On 31 July 1941 Göring instructed Heydrich to draw up detailed plans for “the desired final solution of the Jewish question” (document 710-PS in Trial of the Major War Criminals)”

    I think you are referring to this letter:

    Please note that the letter talks about solving the Jewish question “in Form der Auswanderung oder Evakuierung”, i.e. “by emigration or evacuation”, evacuation meaning forced expulsion.

    So this document actually contradicts the extermination theory. Here is another document:

    “It has been joined by others, like the extraordinary note dictated by
    Staatssekretär Franz Schlegelberger in the Reich Ministry of Justice in the
    spring of 1942: ‘Reich Minister Lammers,’ this states, ‘informed me that
    the Führer has repeatedly pronounced that he wants the solution of the
    Jewish Question put off until after the war is over.’ Whatever way one
    reads this document, it is incompatible with the notion that Hitler had
    ordered an urgent liquidation programme. (The document’s original is in
    justice ministry file R22/52 in the archives at Koblenz.)

    http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/Hitler/2001/HW_Web.pdf

    Page: xxvi

    The fact of the matter is that we have both documents supporting and contradicting the extermination theory and Hitler’s involvement.

    “It seemed to me that the problem with his work was not the possible inaccuracy of the details that he included – but the things he had left out. ”

    I think that this is also a problem of your article.

  23. @Dave Pinsen

    And surely you must have seen “the Fighting Kentuckian” with John Wayne. Following Napoleon’s Waterloo defeat and the exile of his officers and their families from France, the U.S.Congress, in 1817, granted four townships in the Alabama territory to the exiles. Led by Colonel Georges Geraud and General Paul DeMarchand, the struggling settlers have made a thriving community, called Demopolis, by the summer of 1819. On a shopping trip to Mobile, Fleurette DeMarchand, the General’s daughter, meets John Breen, a Kentucky rifleman, who detours his regiment through Demopolis to court her. But Fleurette, despite her wish to marry for love, must bow to the needs of her fellow exiles, who are at the mercy of the rich and wealthy Blake Randolph, and who wants her as his bride. But John Breen has no intention of allowing that to happen, resigns from his regiment, and takes up the fight against Randolph and his hirelings. If Congress had not taken away their land grants they would surely have returned and reconquered France.

    And then there was “La Resistance.” And then there were the Moon Landings. You must have seen the Moon Landings?

  24. Two things:
    1) Quoting what Eichmann said about Hitler while in Israeli custody as “evidence” against Hitler is simply comical.
    2) The only thing that makes ‘The Holocaust’ a SPECIAL AND UNIQUE genocide (as opposed to the ‘usual kind … revenge via mass murder) is the alleged use of “human gas chambers” for the mass extermination of Jews. It is easy to prove that this defining feature of the horror story is a total lie, certainly in the context of that manufactured Disneyland of ultimate nightmare fantasies, Auschwitz Concentration Camp.

    a) The chemical evidence re concentration of ferrocyanide in the walls demonstrates that the only gas chambers in Auschwitz were small and used for killing the lice that spread Typhus through the camp, i.e. to keep inmates healthy.
    b) The Director of Auschwitz admitted on camera that the ‘human gas chamber’ was constructed in 1946.
    c) Coke delivery records can be used to estimate the number of corpses cremated and there is no contradiction between this figure and the official records of deceased in the camp, mostly from typhus. (Read Carlo Mottagno on Auschwitz coke deliveries)
    d) Bodies killed by cyanide poisoning are bright red/pink because of burst capillaries near the skin surface. NOT A SINGLE EYE WITNESS, inmate or guard reported seeing such corpses either near the alleged gas chamber, nor in transit to the crematoria, nor in the crematoria by those alleged to have dumped the hundreds of thousands of victims there for burning.

    How staggering is that? This apophatic evidence (evidence by absence) is, perhaps, the strongest proof that this centrepiece of the Holocaust nightmare fantasy never happened.

    Yes, Jews were massacred in large numbers in the East. There were doubtless other unspeakable horrors committed against innocent Jews during WW2. However, there were equal obscenities committed against many other parties and these horrors are overshadowed by even greater crimes against Soviet citizens by their Jewish-dominated government, pre WWII. Indeed many killings in the East were acts of revenge on lands “liberated” by Germany in previously Soviet-occupied countries.

    Here is the issue.
    Question:Why do we allow the Jewish leadership to turn “their” collective suffering into a world religion (which it now is .. with any heresy or blasphemy against the sacred doctrine punished by career termination or even imprisonment) on the basis of the biggest lie in human history?

    Answer: Because their suffering (i.e. the suffering of the Satanic leadership that Christ condemned, who hold The Jewish people in mental enslavement as human shields) is totally fictional. These people WON World War Two.

    • Replies: @byrresheim
  25. Seeing that comments questioning the existence of human gas chambers in Auschwitz (The “Holocaust” that really sustains the new world religion today) are unacceptable to Unz Review, what about this from the Head of British Intelligence during WW2?

    Statement by Head of British Intelligence about gas-chamber stories
    Public Record Office Document, FO 371/34551

    This Foreign Office document was declassified ages ago, after the 30-year period, and yet David
    Irving seems about the only British historian who has wanted to comment upon it.

    27 August, 1943
    “In my opinion it is incorrect to describe Polish information regarding German atrocities as “trustworthy.’ The Poles, and to a far greater extent the Jews, tend to exaggerate German atrocities in order to stoke us up. They seem to have succeeded.

    Mr Allen and myself have both followed German atrocities quite closely. I do not believe that there is any evidence which would be accepted in a Law Court that Polish children have been killed on the spot by Germans when their parents were being deported to work in Germany, nor that Polish children have been sold to German settlers. As regards putting Poles to death in gas chambers, I do not believe that there is any evidence that this has been done, There have been many stories to this effect, and we have played them up, in P.W.E. [Psy Warfare Executive] rumours without believing that they had any foundation. At any rate there is far less evidence than exists for the mass murder of Polish officers by the Russians at Katyn. On
    the other hand we do know that the Germans are out to destroy Jews of any age unless they are fit for manual labour.

    I think that we weaken our case against the Germans by publicly giving credence to atrocity stories for which we have no evidence. These mass executions in gas chambers remind me of the story of employment of human corpses during the last war for the manufacture of fat, which was a grotesque lie and led to the true stories of German enormities being brushed aside as being mere propaganda…”

    (signed) V Cavendish-Bentinck

    Comment: If a world religion were founded on a lie, would that make it a Satanic religion? A threat to the future of humanity?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  26. Anon[379] • Disclaimer says:

    Unfortunately, Goldhagen’s tribalism is considered acceptable, whereas Irving’s isn’t. Today’s Palestinians — and many others — are victims of Goldhagen’s particular form of tribalism. But perhaps as the Holocaust recedes from view… tribalism itself is becoming fashionable again, too. In fact, tribalism seems to be coming into vogue again throughout the world. Look, for example, at what the U.S. Government and its Saudi and UAE partners are doing to the Houthis, a Shiite tribe, in Yemen.

    Sheesh. The problem of Goldhagen in relation to Palestinians isn’t tribalism or nationalism. It is IMPERIALISM. If Zionists compromised and allowed a nation-state for Palestinians, Jewish tribalism could co-exist with Palestinian tribalism. Unfortunately, Zionists are in imperialist mode and denying the right of tribalism to the Palestinians. Jewish Globalists are tribal-imperialists. Their attitude is ‘tribalism for me but not for thee’. THAT is the problem. If Jews accepted universal tribalism/nationalism, they would get along better with other nations. But even as they promote their own tribalism, they attack the tribalism of others. Jews use their influence to destroy Arab nations or sanction Iran. These Wars for Israel have led to the swamping of Europe with ‘refugees’.

    Tribal-nationalism has always been defensive against imperialism. It was tribal-nationalist passions that led to wars of resistance against European and American imperialism in Vietnam and Algeria. Long live tribalism.

    EU is now neo-imperialist and seeks to undermine national sovereignty and security of European nations. Resurgent nationalism says NO to this. Tribalism is anti-imperialist. Italian tribal-populists have no designs on OTHER nations. They are nationalist and, as such, opposed to demographic imperialism of those black Africans who arrive in Italy to beat up Italian men and hump Italian women.

    The problem with Nazis wasn’t tribalism or nationalism. They invaded and trampled on the tribal-nationalism of other nations. Resistance against Nazi imperialism was tribal-nationalist. And resistance against Soviet imperialism in Eastern Europe was also nationalist-imperialist. If Nazi Germany had remained tribal-nationalist and not turned imperialist, there would have been no WWII.

    What is happening in Yemen is the result of imperialism, not tribalism. It is US-Saudi-Zionist imperialism that is waging war on Yemenese struggle for sovereignty.

    Tribalist-nationalism never hurt anyone. Tibetans and Palestinians are tribal-nationalist. They want freedom and independence for their people in their own territory. Their hopes were crushed by Han Chinese and Zionist imperialism.

    Jewish Tribalism per se isn’t the problem. If Jews want to preserve their tribal culture and memory, fine. If Jews want a nation of their own, fine again.
    Unfortunately, that isn’t enough for Jews. They must occupy even the few remaining Palestinian territory. And they must use the hammer of US globo-homo-imperialism to wage Wars for Israel and pressure EU to put out to demographic imperialism that is totally altering the racial and cultural character of Europe.

    • Agree: mark green
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @Josecanuc
  27. Anon[379] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thomm

    He is way too generous. He says it is only ‘feelings’. I say it is outright, self-evident inferiority of defective whites relative to mainstream whites like me.

    Defective or mainstream, the white race will be inferior in the pornified and thugged culture of rap and ‘muh dick’ jungle fever. Look at Europe. Macron says 200 million blacks will come in the next 20 yrs. These Negroes will be stronger and have bigger dongs than white men. They will whup inferior wussy white boys. ‘Mainstream’ or ‘defective’, it don’t matter. And they will colonize white wombs.

    By rules of thuggery and ‘muh dick’, whites are inferior to blacks. But thug culture is the new culture.

    So, whites must resist and survive as an inferior race.

  28. Anon[379] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bendin of Poland

    Right. It’s like Stalin and Mao didn’t order all the bloodbaths but created the system that made such possible. They must take the blame.

  29. m___ says:

    Holocaust

    Anything one reads about the holocaust’s “prime” sources is subjective. Anyone balances at choice arguments, omits arguments, quantifies close to at random.

    Hitler probably due to his average IQ(not Einstein’s? but for racism, his oratory impact on the bulk of the public), and his ailing health, was an easy victim of manipulation by his environment. Hence his rearangements, shifts, restructuring of his key collaborators, his avid Holywood(Jew made and baked) movie watching on a daily basis in some periods, his “hands on” pageanism(visiting troops, being close to the front line), his choice of bed-partners, not showing the easiness of hoovering between his briefings to generals and party, and his oratory destined to the public. The Jews(the most coherent group spanning borders, the driving force behind Stalin, the upper class dominant German Jews) make many arguments for Hitler to see the Jew, as an ethny, globally distributed, his personal as well as the German Reich’s enemy in absolute. It is even today visible that Hitler’s was not a sophisticated intellectual, but a testosterone entrepreneur with a high degree of conscientiousness. More sophisticated close collaborators were tuned into this, or left the inner circle then. The intellectual qualities of neo-nazi fringe groups of today indicate likewise.

    The emotional, subjective argument of genocide on all sides, Hitler’s and the Jew’s(perpetrating the twenty-first century), is thus not quantified in a more objective manner.

    The physical evidence of the Holocaust could be very exacting, when the matter would be taken on by science. Bones, DNA of bones, theoretical calculations of feasibility, would make the whole issue of exposure minor as compared to reviving the wooled mamouth of Northern Europe. No party, as in neither side is interested. That makes the Holocaust a litterary endeavour of opportunism, and unworthy of our twenty first century scientific methods. Good for endlessly commenting.

    For certain, the ones having picked the bone and ran with it the farthest, the longest, are evidently the International Jews. By taking the “genocide of Jews by Hitler” out of any proportionate mention it must have had a cost-benefit to our Jewish in-group oriented group, and generationally, as no genocide intent before. The Holocaust should be a dry statistic, aligned with other genocides of what war and power struggles have caused regardless of parties involved. Even how Stalin, Rooseveld, Churchill, in that same WWII compared.

    Nice of unz.com to adhere to Jewish media convention to snif at the issue from more then a single side. Fact remains, no science is applied to the Holocaust, WWII, a systemic failure that perpetrates historical errors to the future of humankind.

  30. I do get Jews’ obsession with shoah, but I hardly get “denialists’”” stance: this did happen, but is, due to Jewish media influence in Western societies, overblown out of proportion. No one with sane mind in Poland, Hungary, Greece, Ukraine or Russia will deny that many or most Jews were systematically murdered. This is not even the topic. What they would, reasonably, argue with that Jewish nationalists’ constant drumming on the theme & emotional blackmail in trying to extort as much money as possible and advance their tribalist interests at the expense of the natives’ is simply unacceptable.

    Both Irving and Goldhagen are to be despised. So far, the best holocaust book I’ve read- this is not the topic I am too interested in- is Kershaw’s collection of essays:

  31. Heros says:
    @Colin Wright

    “it’s distinctly improbable that one could murder six million people without the nation’s leader even noticing. “

    Actually, the claim is 11 million of which 5 million were “gypsies, homosexuals, communists, etc”. One gigantic problem the holohoaxers have is that they were already forced to walk back the claims that there were gas chambers in what is now Germany, so all these 11 million had to have been gassed/exterminated in what is now Poland, who will not allow any forensics on these 11 million to be undertaken. Poland, the nation who helped cover up Katyn for the Bolsheviks to pin it all on Germany during the sham Nuremburg trials. How convenient.

    But the math simply does not work, so what we have is narrative collapse, yet certain people like Eric Zeuss or Colin Wright choose to cling to certain “facts” that were parts of a narrative that has been proven to be false in so many places. This holocaust narrative actually goes back to the Tsar’s “pogroms” when the jewish run US media already started pushing the 6 million dead in a holocaust. This narrative was repeated through the entire second world war:

    Ben Hecht sent the “we will never die” broadway pageant touring across the US in March 1943 to whip up sympathy for the same jews who had declared war on Germany in 1933. Jews were already claiming 2 million dead in 1942, but we know that was a lie. Theodore Kaufman wrote “Germany Must Perish” in 1940, before Auschwitz was even opened. This was used as the basis for the Morgentau plan which was leaked in 1944.

    So Germany and the Germans knew what the jews had planned for them even before the firebombing of Hamburg, Dresden, Berlin and the mass murder of millions of German civilians in bombing raids on civilian areas. Then in 1945 came the Hellstorm in the east and Eisenhowers Rhine Meadows death camps in the west. Real death camps with real bodies and real concentration camps filled with Germans across Siberia.

    If we deconstruct the narrative further, what we have is the jews setting Germany up with the stab in the back of 1918, jews bankrupting Germany with the reparations they agreed to in Versaille, jews declaring war on Germany in 1933, jews broadcasting that they were going to commit genocide on Germans and Germany when the war was over, then jews actually committing this genocide, then jews conducting sham trials where they project their own guilt onto the Germans for the murders and atrocities they committed (Katyn), then they implement the Morganthau plan as promised and starve millions of Germans and strip out all her industry and enslave the men while they try to mongrelize the women left behind. That is the true history of how rotten the jews are, not the kosher narrative of they how much they are persecuted.

    I think the point here is that if the Germans had conducted the holocaust, they would have been justified. However, the ultimate insult is that the people who conducted the real holocaust are still extracting reparations from Germany for the crimes they committed against the comparatively far more innocent Germany.

    It can come as no surprise then that they are willing to lock up old ladies for “holocaust denial”. Bravo, Eric Zeuss and Colin Wright, for standing up for the kosher narrative.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @Anon
  32. Erebus says:

    One sometimes wonders why no serious, professional historian has ever touched the Holocaust third rail. If one was mid-career at (say) Harvard, wouldn’t one turn over every rock to prove it happened, guaranteeing rock star status in the History field? You’d be Faculty Dean in a heartbeat, get a seat on the Board, probably at more than one university, and travel the world with a retinue of sycophants giving lectures for sums only Bill Clinton dreams of.

    Given the claimed scale and close proximity in time, it should be a “Gimme”. We aren’t talking about the Peloponnesian Wars here. We’re talking about a process involving millions of humans and enormous resources taking place on a continental scale within living memory. Why hasn’t any sharp young History professor gone after the prize?

    Or have they, and and quietly buried their failures lest their career come to an untimely end?

    • Replies: @Momus
    , @Anonymous
  33. Oh there is no doubt that the nazi’s were evil and they killed the many millions of red army POW’s or that they killed millions of civilians in occupied lands, you dont get 40 million dead doing nothing.

    What I want to know is what makes jews spesual? I mean Hitler had no qualms about killing eg partisans, communists, saboteurs, the mentally ill and physically deformed or anyone who was not pure and white and fit as a fidle..

    Anyone who comes out with examples of Hitler did not want others to know.. To me is full of it. Hitler praised the US for how they exterminated the native Americans. How the US gassed death row inmates without problems and such. But spesual jews, Hitler wanted it all done in secret.. Although confiscation and targeting of Jews and shooting them were all done openly and even spread to keep others jews in line and deathly afraid.. But Hitler did not want to scare away the jews.. spesual they are..

    And the less evidence of if it all is because Hitler wanted it all kept secret.. And done on such a scale that there does not exist anything else of such monstrous crimes in history. Even though Hitler was defeated and Germany captured.

    This reminds me of how those 4 gitmo inmates committed suicide in 2005 in a group session next to each other.. They shoved rags down their throats and taped their mouths and nose shut and then tied their hands and feet and stuck their heads in a noose after covering the cameras and jumped off the wash basin to hang and sticking mannequins in their beds so the guards would think they were sleeping.

    • Agree: FB
    • Replies: @Bukowski
  34. padre says:

    All this talking about holocaust leads me to the opinion, that holocaust is possible onnla if Germans do it to Jews!

  35. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    Remember the 11 million? Why an inflated victims tally irks Holocaust historians

    Yehuda Bauer, an Israeli Holocaust scholar who chairs the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, said he warned his friend Wiesenthal, who died in 2005, about spreading the false notion that the Holocaust claimed 11 million victims – 6 million Jews and 5 million non-Jews.

    “I said to him, ‘Simon, you are telling a lie,’” Bauer recalled in an interview Tuesday. “He said, ‘Sometimes you need to do that to get the results for things you think are essential.’”

    https://www.jta.org/2017/01/31/news-opinion/united-states/remember-the-11-million-why-an-inflated-victims-tally-irks-holocaust-historians

    Even honest Jews will admit the 6 million number is a LIE. Then we have this, the concentration camp commander, Karl Otto Koch, who was arrested, tried and executed by the SS for being too brutal to inmates at Buchenwald and Majdanek.

    https://www.britannica.com/biography/Karl-Otto-Koch

    Now if Germany was truly running the so-called ‘death camps, would they be executing a commandant for being too brutal?

    And if you’re going to say the worn out phrase, Final Solution, don’t forget to add the word that precedes it, TERRITORIAL. Hitler was going to move the Jews to the new territories stolen from the USSR, not kill them en masse in forced labor camps.

    • Replies: @Jake
    , @FB
  36. One can not acknowledge the Jewish holocaust without acknowledging the Palestinian holocaust at the same time.

    • Replies: @MrB
    , @MrB
  37. “ Himmler publicly stated in a speech on 24 February 1943 that this was necessary in order to have “exterminated a bacterium because we do not want in the end to be infected by the bacterium and die of it.” ”

    I’d think it too obvious to point out, that public speeches aren’t policy. Something strange too, about the fact that he’d be broadcasting a supposedly top-secret project (for which, as is acknowledged, no explicit documentation exists, only alleged code-words and euphemisms).

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  38. sarz says:

    It’s disappointing to see that Ron Unz is apparently a believer in the systematic industrial murder of millions of Jews by the National Socialists using gas chambers.

    It would be good if Ron could get someone to present an authoritative account giving the evidence in support of such belief.

    Someone nominated by the people at codoh.com could be asked to respond.

    The psedonymous maker of Holocaust questioning documentaries, Denierbud, whose work is available at codoh, had long offered to debate any tenured academic historian on the topic. Maybe the offer still stands.

    • Replies: @Greg Bacon
    , @Anon
    , @Erebus
  39. ” Yes, Jews were massacred in large numbers in the East ”
    But by whom ?
    Read what the German troops found in Kiev when they came there:
    Alfred M. de Zayas, ´Die Wehrmacht-Untersuchungsstelle, Dokumentation allierter Kriegsverbrechen im Zweiten Weltkrieg’ , 1979, 2001, München

  40. @Bardon Kaldian

    Ian Kershaw, ´Hitlers Freunde in England, Lord Londonderry und der Weg in den Krieg’, (Making Friends with Hitler. Lord Londonderry and Britain’s Road to War, 2004, London), München 2005
    a nonsense book, as is clear from reading:
    The Marquess of Londonderry, ´England blickt auf Deutschland, Um die deutsch-englische Verständigung, Essen 1938 (Ourselves and Germany, 1938)
    Unlikely that other books by Kershaw are better.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  41. My personal view lies somewhere in the space between these loci: 1. Adolf H is possibly a Bernard Ebbers type figure (Military disaster is a form of accounting scandal). 2. Nobody did it. 3. What was done depends on the grinding specs on the ax of the observer.

  42. @Anon

    Goldhagen is an idiot.
    See an endnote about him in
    Christopher R. Browning, ‘Ordinary Men, Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland’, 1992, 2001, London

    • Replies: @Anon
  43. @Beefcake the Mighty

    Knowing a bit about all the nonsense published after WWII what German leaders are supposed to have said, why should this statement by true ?
    One must realise that, after WWII, anyone with negative statements about these leaders was the darling of the ‘prosecutors’, as was Speer.
    Even today it is hardly possible to state anything possible about Hitler, despite a book as
    Kai S. Schreyber (Hrsg.), ´Warum wir ADOLF HITLER wählten, Jungwähler von 1933/38 berichten’, 2001 Kiel
    The positive description of Hitler by his youngest secretary must be balanced by a long introduction asserting the opposite.
    Traudl Junge, with Melissa Müller, ‘Until the final hour’, London, 2004
    Even the widow of Von Stauffenberg was fed up with historians who knew better than she what had happened in WWII:
    Konstanze von Schulthess, ´Nina Schenk Gräfin von Stauffenberg, Ein Porträt’, München 2009

  44. @Heros

    Hecht later got other ideas
    Ben Hecht, ‘Perfidy’, New York, 1961

  45. “Irving noted, in a footnote, that Eichmann had testified to having been informed by Heydrich that “The Führer has ordered physical extermination,” but Irving simply dismissed that by saying: “There is no primary or secondary documentary support for such a statement.”

    This is a somewhat misleading characterization of Irving’s “dismal” of Eichmann’s testimony since Zuesse neglected to add that Irving also stated that Eichmann was prone to exaggeration, certainly an observation that would be relevant to considerations of credibility.

    • Replies: @Eric Zuesse
  46. ” Despite the transparent frauds of the Holocaust-deniers inside and outside academia, there is no serious question that the Holocaust existed and that it constituted a crime of unimaginably vast scope. ”

    J.G. Burg, Schuld und Schicksal, Europas Juden zwischen Henkern und Heuchlern, München, 1962
    Victor Klemperer, ‘I will bear witness, A diary of the Nazi years, 1942-1945’, New York 1999
    Paul Rassinier, ´Was ist Wahrheit ?, Die Juden und das Dritte Reich´, Leoni am Starnberger See, 7th printing, 1981 (Le véritable procès Eichmann ou les vainqueurs incorrigibles, 1963; The Real Eichmann Trial or the Incorrigible Victors. ISBN: 0911038485, 1983)
    Elie Wiesel, ‘La Nuit’, 1958, 2007
    Eugen Kogon, ‘Der SS-Staat, Das System der deutschen Konzentrationslager’, 1974, München
    Werner Maser, ‘Fälschung, Dichtung und Wahrheit über Hitler und Stalin’, München, 2004
    Arthur R. Butz, ´The hoax of the twentieth century, The case against the presumed extermination of European Jewry’, Costa Mesa CA, 1977, 1989
    Ben Hecht, ‘Perfidy’, New York, 1961
    Neufeld and Berenbaum, editors ‘The bombing of Auschwitz’, 2000, New York
    Jan T. Gross, ‘Neighbours, The Destruction of the Jewish Community in Jedwabne, Poland, 1941’, 2003, London
    Dan Jacobson, ‘Heshels Rijk Familiekroniek’, Amsterdam 1998
    Faurisson’s 1980 article in Le Monde

    All these writers, just perfidous liars
    Of course, the murder on some two million German citizens by bombing also did not happen.
    Solly Zuckermann, ‘From Apes to Warlords, an autobiography, 1904- 46’, London 1988
    And millions of Germans were not driven from their homes, how many died or were killed by the Red Army, negligible
    Cajus Bekker, ‘Flucht übers Meer, Ostsee Deutsches Schicksal 1945′, 1964, 1999, Augsburg

    • LOL: Momus
    • Replies: @anonymous
  47. @jilles dykstra

    What this has to with the topic? I haven’t read this book, so I can’t say anything about it. But, this one, about Hitler, Germans and holocaust is a masterpiece, as anyone with some brain can see. It is available here: http://dl3.libgen.io/get.php?md5=08AB756A0EC462EB98D3DB29EEA588B9&key=M8LXN8SMM6DQK76N

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  48. HadEnough says:

    This article is nothing more than a regurgitation of the same disproven claptrap.

    You want a real holocaust? Try the Ukrainian Holodomor, Jews deliberately starving a nation to death, estimates from seven to 16.5 million Christians murdered. Why wouldn’t the Germans defend themselves when the World Jewish Council declared war against them and announced that they would “starve the Germans into submission”?

    Or 60 million Russian Christians raped, tortured and murdered by Jews in the Gulag system they created and ran throughout Russia from 1917-1989.

    Or, by definition of the Genocide Convention, the bloodless genocide they are carrying out today in America and Europe by systematically destroying people’s race, culture, heritage and religion.

    In the last two weeks the Jews shoot 9,000 unarmed civilians in Palestine, then announce in this morning’s news that they are the Supreme Race! Last month the Chief Rabbi of Israel defined African Americans as “monkeys”.

    Jewish pitymongering is wasted on me as I think it is on most people on the planet at this point.

    • Replies: @Neville
    , @Josecanuc
  49. Jake says:

    “While my book doesn’t mention Irving, it does deal extensively with (among others) a writer about the Holocaust who seems to hate Germans as much as Irving seems to hate Jews: Daniel Goldhagen. The problem with both writers is that they are tribal (one a “Jew” and the other an “Aryan” — i.e., pureblooded Christian, or, at least, not “Jew”

    What? Are you unaware that there is no such thing as a Christian race in the sense that we can speak of the Jewish race? Are you unaware that it is impossible to equate Aryan with Christian, unless you are a Jew or other person who hates both Christianity/Christians and white peoples of European ancestry with an equal fury? Are you unaware that the Nazi movement was anti-Christian at its core, at times as viciously as were the Marxist and anarchist movements so beloved of Jews in Germany and elsewhere?

    At best. you are ignorant. At worst, you have created a false dichotomy to advance your case.

    The Nazi movement was evil. And so was Hitler as its most important leader. But those who have and work to transmit the religion of pure Hitler-hating, from the Christ-hating, Christendom-hating, white-peoples of Christendom-hating Marxists and anarchists of Hitler’s time down to today’s Christ-hating, Christendom-hating, white peoples of Christendom-hating ADL, SPLC, BLM, GLAAD, Open Society Foundations, SJW college professors and students, etc. are as evil as were Hitler and his minions.

    I have never read a David Irving book. From the articles I have read, both pro and con, I assume that Irving does more than a bit of quibbling over Hitler. But as the Hitler presented to the public is little more realistically human than a cartoon caricature of the embodiment of evil in crime lord, Irving’s focuses on the sentimental, tender-hearted parts of Hitler’s Germanic character traits are valid, because they were parts of the man. They do not exonerate him of his leadership of an evil movement, but they are valid. And it is that type validity that refuses to keep playing the game of making Hitler THE very essence of pure evil, pure evil only because Jews were feared and despised and killed by that evil movement, that cause people to smear and act to ruin, financially and otherwise, historians such as Irving.

    • Replies: @Eric Zuesse
  50. Jake says:
    @Greg Bacon

    My Zionist Evangelical friend admitted to me a few years back that he used to believe there were 6 million who died in the Nazi concentration camps, and that virtually all of them were Jews. Then he read some things demonstrating clearly that close to 50% of the people who died in Nazi camps were non-Jewish. Then he came to believe that close to 12 million died in the camps, 6 million of them Jews. He has almost zero interest in the Nazi hatreds of non-Germanic white peoples, and he says that even if the Nazis sent to the camps as many Polish Catholic priests as historians agree, that it just barely matters, as added guilt.

    This friend believes as he does because he has kept the Judaizing core, the Judaizing foundation, of Anglo-Saxon Puritanism. Everything in his world, all knowledge that comes to him, is filtered through that basic WASP worldview, in its contemporary ‘conservative’ Evangelical form.

  51. dearieme says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    “One problem was finding a place that would take you in, no?”

    In particular, one problem was finding a place to take you in that you were prepared to live in. For example there were more visas available for immigrating to Palestine than were taken up. Naturally, cultivated German Jews with specialised skills didn’t fancy living on the desert’s edge amongst Arabs who wanted them out.

    I imagine that many of the Jews who stayed in Germany had motives such as: (i) We can’t leave without Grandma and she refuse to budge, and (ii) We’ve seen bullying like this before in history; it will all blow over, and (iii) I am an assimilated, Christian German so they obviously can’t mean me.

    It’s striking that many Jews who left after Hitler’s assent to power returned to Germany when it was clear that pogroms hadn’t started, only to flee again after Kristallnacht.

    One part of the great tragedy was where many of them fled to: the Low Countries, France, Czechoslovakia, and so on. They hadn’t foreseen that he’d conquer all those countries and then exterminate the Jews who lived there.

    One problem with comments on WWII is that almost everything about it is seen entirely in hindsight.

    • Replies: @David
    , @peterAUS
    , @Curle
    , @Them Guys
  52. Momus says:
    @Erebus

    One sometimes wonders why no serious, professional historian has ever touched the Holocaust third rail.

    Eh?

    It’s already been proved that the Nazis built the ideological and physical apparatus to imprison, enslave murder and attempt to exterminate European Jewry.

    • LOL: SolontoCroesus
    • Replies: @Bushwalla
    , @Mulegino1
  53. First, even to this day, the expression “Final Solution” is a common expression in German. I remember moderating an argument between Brits and Germans (which devolved into dug-in warfare a la WW1 quite quickly), and when an agreement was finally hammered out, a German HR-type said, unironically, “So, we have a final solution.” I jokingly asked if Germans were even allowed to use that expression, and the evolution of it was explained to me: The context is, you have a first solution, then a second, and so on until you have a final solution.

    Second, the request for a signed euthenasia order is a very German reaction to a controversial order. Hitler signed, and thereby absolved his underlings of guilt, at least to their satisfaction before the end of the war, at which point the rules were changed by the victors. Something as big as the Final Solution would have certainly warranted a signature from above if it was indeed a controversial order from above being carried out by nervous subordinates. As Irving points out, anti-semitism was rife at all levels of the hierarchy, so it can’t be lightly dismissed that others more willing to advance the cause gladly set it in motion, thinking they would be heros in the eyes of the Führer. The absence of Hitler at Wansee and any signed order argues convincingly it may indeed have been the initiative of interested underlings, much the same way that the underlings of Henry II are reputed to have murdered Archbishop Beckett upon the King’s mere wish that someone make him simply go away.

    It is unlikely Hitler was oblivious to the holocaust, but once it was set in industrial-scale motion, there was little reason for him to interfere, as doing so would undermine much of the ideology upon which the party was built. There has been evidence over the years that high officials like Hitler and Himmler intervened on behalf of jews they personally knew or those known by or useful for friends, but both were control freaks who almost certainly knew what was being done in their names.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  54. Myname says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    Watch David Cole’s Auschwitz document, I agree with noseytheDuke. It also doesn’t make sense for the Germans to waste energy in transportation of Jews to the “Arbeit macht Frei” camps.

    • Replies: @Karl
  55. Greg Bacon says: • Website
    @sarz

    It’s disappointing to see that Ron Unz is apparently a believer in the systematic industrial murder of millions of Jews by the National Socialists using gas chambers.

    Mr. Unz is free to believe and speak freely about any topic he wishes, while there is still Free Speech in the USA.

    • Replies: @icanread.cant you
  56. Thea says:

    He order the extermination of many other groups as well why are the Jews special? more Russian civilians were killed during Barbarossa than Jews overall. 20 million died in the Holocaust but only 6 million count to some people.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  57. nickels says:

    Blah blah.
    The truth is that which supports the revolution, right?
    And this revolution is about toppling Jewish hegemony over the West, which is accomplished by putting the naive goy in a guilt headlock over a fictional even that was, in fact, a war of partisans against the Germans.
    This means:
    The Holocaust was miniscule compared to:
    -the jewish Bolshevik reign of death and terror
    -the jew Marx’s chinese protege Marx’s 60 mil murders.
    -the largest ethnic cleansing in history of 10 million Germans from their native lands by the jew’s allies after ww2.
    -the murder, starvation and rape of 5 million Germans by Allies.
    -the murder of 6 million babies in the US by abortion that is a movement spearheaded by jews.

    The holocaust is over. Forget it.

    • Agree: renfro
  58. Erebus says:
    @The Alarmist

    … once it was set in industrial-scale motion…

    R

    The question, dufus, is not whether it was a sealed & stamped signature, or a wink from the Fuhrer that put the wheels in motion. We have evidence of neither. The question is whether the Holocaust’s “industrial-scale motion” was physically possible at all. It isn’t. Ergo, it’s a lie. Only people who have little/no idea how the real physical world works seriously think the Holocaust possible.

    Simple, really.

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
  59. To see who put Hitler in power and who supported Hitlers wars , read Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler and Trading With the Enemy by Charles Hingham and The Crime and Punishment of I.G. Farben by Joseph Borkin.

    There are the real warmongers and the killers of humanity.

  60. Bukowski says:

    Something is wrong with academia and the media when a proven fraud like Elie Wiesel is still held up as some kind of shining example to others – https://codoh.com/library/document/858/

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @JoaoAlfaiate
  61. The evidence against an organized extermination of the Jews by the Nazis is overwhelming. If you wish to know the truth about “The Holocaust,” read the material at the website AAARGH: http://aaargh.vho.org/index.html. I am the translator of some of it.

    Cf. Serge Thion’s: A Brief History Of Revisionism (http://aaargh.vho.org/fran/livres8/STBriefHist.pdf) and Georges Theil’s: Our Mission: Dismantle the Planetary Slander In Order to Help Build an Honest World (http://aaargh.vho.org/fran/livres8/GTOurMission.pdf)

  62. anonymous[347] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thea

    Those Russian civilians — were they transported to “death camps” and killed in gas chambers?

    Was the ‘killing of those “more than 6 million” Russian civilians the outcome of a deliberate, industrialized , plan– documented, of course– to kill ‘every Russian civilian Nazis could get their hands on?

    Were these Russian civilians Jewish? Nolshevik? Partisans?

    Were they targeted for killing precisely because of their group identity, or because they were in a war zone?

    Answers to the queries argue AGAINST the stigmatized holocaust-of-Jews narrative.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @Thea
    , @Svigor
  63. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    Show is the alleged remains of 6,000,000 Jews & 5,000,000 others that are claimed to to exist to this day in alleged known locations.Many are even marked as such.
    Now see these:
    Sobibor ‘monument’ supposedly over the remains of 250,000 Jew, actual remains of the alleged 250,000 cannot be shown.

    Alleged “ash pond” for 1,100,000 Jew remains at Auschwitz, no actual remains can be shown.

    Alleged location of Treblinka mass graves / remains for 900,000 Jews according to Treblinka officials, no alleged remains can be shown

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
  64. Wally says:
    @Bukowski

    see all below:
    fake ‘holocau$t’ liar Elie Wiesel accused of sexual assault

    https://medium.com/@jblistman/when-i-was-nineteen-years-old-elie-wiesel-grabbed-my-ass-10370829c4bd


    “Some stories are true that never happened.”

    - Elie Wiesel

    What Elie Wiesel described in his book “Night”:
    “Early the next day, Jewish boys ran off to Weimar to steal clothing and potatoes. And to rape German girls [un tsu fargvaldikn daytshe shikses].”

    The fact that inmates at Auschwitz, upon the advancement of Soviet troops, were given the choice to stay and await the the Soviets or leave with the SS is damning to the fake narrative.
    Most by far chose to leave with the ‘evil’ Germans.

    Some of Wiesel’s exact words in “Night” are (p. 78):
    “The choice was in our hands. For once we could decide our fate for ourselves. We could both stay in the hospital, where I could, thanks to my doctor, get him [the father] entered as a patient or nurse. Or else we could follow the others. ‘Well, what shall we do, father?’ He was silent. ‘Let’s be evacuated with the others,’ I told him.”

    Elie’s tale in this regard is corroborated by other “survivor” accounts including that of Primo Levi. In Levi’s book “Survival in Auschwitz,” we have his words for January 17th, 1945:

    “It was not a question of reasoning: I would probably also have followed the instinct of the flock if I had not felt so weak: fear is supremely contagious, and its immediate reaction is to make one try to run away.”

  65. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    Thanks for the information. It’s always good to know an author’s biases and prejudices.

  66. Mulegino1 says:

    Of course you will never forget- how could you? This “Mother of all big lies” is the most lucrative extortion racket in history and it still goes on, and it will soon be claimed that the trauma suffered by the survivors has been passed epigenetically to their descendants, so that the shekels can continue to flow forever.

    This anti-European and anti-Christian blood libel has served as the justification of the brutal expropriation of Palestine, the Manichean narrative of the “Good War” against the “Evil Nazis”, NATO hegemony over the EU and the guilt shaming of virtually all Christians in Europe or of European descent.

    Once the alleged event is defined in factual terms, it is falsifiable. The core of the false narrative is this:

    During the period of 1939-1945, National Socialist Germany- acting upon orders from Hitler (which were never given ) murdered some 6 million Jews, most of them with poison gas at 6 distinct locations in General Governmant Poland, Upper Silesia and Wartheland: Auschwitz-Birkenau, Majdanek-Lublin, Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka II.

    Due to the complete lack of physical or authentic evidence for any “industrial scale mass murder” at any of the camps, the entire narrative depends upon the testimony of eyewitnesses, most of whose claims are impossible fantasies, and many of which were coerced by torture, such as those of Rudolf Hoess, the former commandant of Auschwitz-Birkenau who was tortured for nearly a week by a team of British commandos under the command of one Bernard Clarke. The entire Nuremberg fable of mass gassings at Auschwitz-Birkenau rests almost entirely upon absurd claims of Hoess, most of which are not even given credence to anymore , since there is no corroborating physical evidence for them and they are logistically and technically impossible. (2000 people inside an unheated morgue cannot be killed by dropping pellets of a commercially available pesticide down a makeshift hole onto an unheated concrete floor; a body cannot be cremated in 10 or 15 minutes, men cannot walk around a chamber filled with poison gas eating and smoking, etc.)

    The so called “gas chamber” at Auschwitz main camp is a postwar construction or mock up of a morgue (mere yards away from the hospital) which was later converted to a bomb shelter.

    The so called “gas chambers” at Birkenau were designed and used as underground morgues. No mass gassings ever occurred in these areas, as forensic analysis of the brickwork shows. While the delousing chambers, which employed Zyklon-B and state of the art technology to disinfect clothing and bedding, still to this day show abundant traces of blue staining -Prussian Blue- which is caused by the active ingredient in Zyklon-B- hydrocyanic acid bonding with the iron in the masonry- up to 13,000 ppm in some cases- the remaining brickwork of the morgues or alleged “homicidal gas chambers” show no traces of iron cyanide compounds. None.

    Besides, the claims of mass gassings of 2000 people at a time are a logistical impossibility from any standpoint. It would take days and weeks to clear the chamber, remove the bodies and cremate them, even provided that the 52 cremation retorts were all in use and no time was given for cooling and maintenance, which means they would have been destroyed within a very short period and thus need replacing- something which never occurred, according to the camp records.

    There is virtually no physical evidence that anything like hundreds of thousands of Jews were murdered by the Germans, let alone over 4,000,000.

    • Replies: @j2
  67. David says:
    @dearieme

    In 1927, von Mises wrote that the Nazis had become a paramilitary party because they were being persecuted by communists. He speculated that if they achieved power, they would likely revert to German liberalism. He left, however, when the Nazis attained power.

  68. anonymous[739] • Disclaimer says:

    The best way to understand the 6 Million Gassed Jews Holocaust is to see it as yet another fundamentalist religious myth the same as other highly ethno centrist Jewish religious Myths in the Jewish Old Testament.

    Take the myth of the parting of the Red Sea in the Book of Exodus. Watch the Cecil B Demille movie “The Ten Commandments”

    Now is the Jewish religious myth about the Jewish tribal God Jehovah parting the Red Sea to allow the Jew’s God’s Chosen People to escape the Evil Egyptians (definitely not God’s Chosen People) is that fair and honest history backed up by science?

    No of course not.

    It’s scientifically impossible, the Jews would have got stuck in the mud, plus nobody else wrote about this incredible once in a lifetime event.

    But, this Jewish ethnocentric religious myth of the Parting of the Red Sea got forced on our people by the forced fundamentalist religion of Judeo Christianity. All the Jewish ethno centric myths in the Old Testament are true, because….

    BECAUSE IT’S THE TRUTH, BIBLICAL TRUTH

    IT’S THE BIBLE

    Anybody that questions any part of the Old Testament Jewish myths is s religious heretic, an “Unbeliever” a denier of God’s BIBLE and that religious heretic gets persecuted, things like getting burnt at the stake, driven out of respectable society.

    It’s the same with the 6 Million Gassed Jews religious myth – so much of the official Holocaust story is impossible from a scientific standpoint, even most of the official Holocaust industry now admits there were no gassing of Jews in Camps in Germany, but the 6 Million Gassed jews myth just gets spun that all the gassing killings happened in C Camps in Poland.

    Last year the Prime Minister of Israel tried to spin the 6 Million Gassed Jews Holocaust myth as the fault of the Palestinian Arabs not Hitler and the Germans – he argued that Hitler did just want to expel European Jews to Madagascar or Palestine/Israel but the Evil Palestinian Arab Mufti of Jerusalem supposed convinced Hitler that the Jews had to all be killed, exterminate.

    So we’re still stuck with this fundamentalist Jewish – Judeo Christian religious Myth of the 6 Million Gassed Jews and all Germans, all White Americans, pretty much all White Gentile people still alive on planet earth are somehow all guilty of this worst ever sin against the Jewish people – God’s Chosen People.

    Yes, the religious myth of the 6 Million Gassed Jews has become a foundation myth in Western Europe, Canada and the USA – it’s become a form of blasphemy to deny any small portion of this myth.

    Don’t believe me?

    Just try to publicly question any part of the official myth – you will be labeled a religious heretic, an “unbeliever” a…

    HOLOCAUST DENIER

    And this blasphemy is an official state crime in countries like Germany and Canada.

    We even have an official religious temple on our Washington Mall the “Holocaust Museum”!

    Nah.

    I go with defending our rights for freedom of thought and to study real history such as that written by the honest historian David Irving.

    I as a midwestern White British American Anglo, Gentile born in 1961 am not in any way guilty for this supposed worst crime in history.

    I don’t feel guilty about anything that happened, or didn’t happen or is exaggerated that happened in Poland or anywhere else in Central and Eastern Europe.

    The German people were, are a good people, so are Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, Latvians, Finns.

    If our people are so bad why do all the other people in the world including Jews insist on trying to gate crash and move in to live near us?

    Is it my fault the Jewish people can’t seem to get along with anyone else – not the Palestinians, not the Syrians, Not the Lebanese, not the Iranians, not the Poles, Russians, Ukrainians, French Dutch or the Germans?

    One suggestion is to just take off this huge chip on the shoulder and admit that….

    The Jews are not Gods Chosen People – they are a people like other people, some good, some not so good.

    Jews are not the only people to suffer in World War II or before and afterwords under Communism.

    So to sum up my comment.

    I do not believe in the 6 Million Gassed Jews religious myth – it is not fair and impartial history, the German people and all remaining White European Gentiles are not condemned for yes GENOCIDE and replacement by mass immigration migration invasions because of the original sin of the 6 Million gassed Jews.

  69. @NoseytheDuke

    Like you, I never questioned the official narrative. In fairness, any time the topic was raised, my parents, if near enough to hear, shut down the conversation quickly. In retrospect, it was obvious that they thought it was bullshit.
    My awakening came with the Zundel trials in Toronto. Despite an obviously hostile judge, Zundel’s lawyer, the late Doug Christie, made fools out of author Raul Hilberg, pathological liar Rudolf Vrba (whose hearsay evidence was the basis for Nuremberg), and “survivor” Arnold Friedman, prisoner number B14515 and his coloured smoke from crematoria story. Zundel’s own witnesses, which included “death camp survivors” Irving in the 2nd trial, and experts in their fields, demonstrated the physical impossibility of the gas chamber and crematoria narratives.
    The trial transcripts are available online. Although a tedious read it becomes comedy when the prosecution witnesses, in answers to Christie’s questions, utterly destroy their own credibility.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Skeptikal
  70. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @sarz

    From the articles he’s posted, it seems to me that Ron Unz is very open minded about the subject. He presents articles from every side of the endless WW2 debates

  71. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @jilles dykstra

    I’d say Goldhagen is a liar more than an idiot.

  72. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    As for Zuess’s laughably cited ‘Eichmann Interrogated’, READ ALL OF THIS:

    - even “holocaust historian” Browning said:
    “Clearly, anyone who wants to dismiss Eichmann’s testimonies on the grounds of their demonstrated unreliability and shameless self-serving lies can easily do so, and many of my colleagues have done precisely this.”

    from: Eichmann Interrogated, transcripts from the Archives of the Israeli Police, edited by Jochen von Lang in collaboration with Claus Sibyll. Translated from the German by Ralph Manheim. Farrar, Straus, and Giroux, New York, 1983, 293pp:

    - Eichmann claims to have witnessed mass slaughter on a grand scale at Auschwitz in the fall of 1941, where the camp commandant, Rudolf Hoess, informed him that the great, factory-like buildings, the chimneys of which belch smoke, are “working to capacity: Ten thousand!”
    This is months before the Auschwitz typhus control crematoria were constructed, let alone in use.
    - Eichmann talks of Treblinka – but then he’s not sure if it’s Treblinka – where he says gassings were being carried out with a submarine engine (diesel); he claims at places near Minsk and Lemberg, mass shootings were taking place, including one mass grave from which he said:
    “blood was gushing out … like a geyser”
    .
    IOW, he copied Wiesel who said the same absurd thing.

    - On Treblinka of 1941, Eichmann claimed gassings were carried out with the insecticide Zyklon-B. Treblinka, however, is supposed not to have been functioning as an extermination center until the summer of 1942, nor was Zyklon-B ever claimed to have been employed there.

    - Eichmann even offers substantiation for the six-million claim-he says he’s worked out the numbers from reading ***Jewish almanacs***, he persistently rejects the accusation that he was the organizer of the “Final Solution” or the “flywheel of the extermination machine.”

    - The ‘holocaust’ Industry’s own Mark Roseman said: Both Rudolf Hoess’s and Eichmann’s testimonies lack credibility.

    - much more on Eichmann Interrogated:

    http://vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/6/2/OKeefe237-240.html

    I dare anyone to bring up Eichmann’s alleged ‘diary’.
    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Momus
    , @Reinhard Horn
  73. anonymous[739] • Disclaimer says:
    @jilles dykstra

    jilles dykstra

    I have an excellent color PDF file of questions and answers about the alleged Jewish Holocaust – the hard copy is in the form of a glossy color magazine.

    If you are interested e-mail me at:

    [email protected]

    Take care

    JR

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  74. A once interesting subject has been beaten into the ground by endless discussion. Likely because it serves to distract from Jewish supremacism in Israel.

  75. I cannot believe that I am reading this ‘Hitler’ shit in anno domini 2018.

    Professor Emeritus at the US Naval Post-Graduate School, RHS Stolfi, published the definitive book, the ultimate book, the final solution Hitler book in 2011. I suggest you all peruse it.

    • Agree: SolontoCroesus
    • Replies: @daniel le mouche
  76. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    That gray stuff looks like the bottom level rocks of a road waiting to be covered with smaller gravel then concrete and asphalt.

    • Replies: @Wally
  77. bj says:

    David Irving discusses the veracity of Adolf Eichmann’s testimony and memoirs in the following linked video. Eric Zuesse’s derivative history fails to question the motive of Eichmann’s self serving testimony.

    IMO-”David Irving Jailed and Beaten For Telling Truth of 2nd World War” is one of Irving’s best efforts to offer a balanced interpretation of the complex historical record, with its contradictory facts and testimonies. Eric Zuesse repeats the official history of the victor’s of WWII, enabling the continuing blood libel against the German people. Zuesse’s history is entirely derivative, edited, and suspect.

    One of the best evidences of truth is orthodoxies effort to discredit and destroy David Irving and his original work. Eric Zuesse is either a useful idiot or simply a dishonest collaborator with the campaign to bury and muddy the truth!

  78. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    David Irving found this:

    How the Film Evidence at Nuremberg was faked
    From the files of Justice Robert H Jackson, US chief prosecutor at Nuremberg.

    http://www.fpp.co.uk/History/General/Nbg/DeanIMT161145.html

    http://www.codoh.com

  79. @Thomm

    Progressive whites are the most backward people on the planet. They think that buggery can consummate a marriage. Even the naked Yanomami aren’t that stupid.

    • Replies: @daniel le mouche
  80. @jilles dykstra

    ‘…But what if it did not happen ?’

    It happened. In 1939, there were 9.5 million Jews in Europe; in 1945 there were 3.8 million. 5.7 million Jews vanished. Where did they go?

    There are lots of interesting arguments and discussions to have about World War Two, Nazism, Hitler, etc, etc. However, whether or not the Holocaust in fact happened is not one of them. You might as well question the existence of Australia.

  81. Let’s get to the real question: Hitler was a pervert. But what kind?

    • Troll: L.K
  82. Wally says:
    @Anon

    Perhaps, but it’s not.
    It’s a permanent part of the site. Pure theater.
    Such is the fraud.

    recommended:
    Sites Where Excavations Are Physically Obstructed, Blocked

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9171

    “It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.”
    - Robert Heinlein

  83. Anon[156] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    It is important to realize that the Holocaust is a complete hoax. That is
    #1 – there was no Nazi plan to exterminate the Jews
    #2 – the gas chambers are pure phantasmagoria and there is not a shred of physical evidence for them
    #3 – the number of Jews that died in camps for being Jews is 0, and it is well known (google Konrad Morgen) that the Nazis aggressively investigated and prosecuted crime in the camps.

    So begins the video that points out the endless lies that make up the hoax, the ‘big lie’ being the photos of tyhpus victims photographed after the war at Belsen and shown as victims of Nazi gas chambers for the last 70 years. The vid documents the true provenance of the photos.

    See also holohoax101.org

  84. escobar says:

    How about you all reading this article by historian Timothy Snyder:

    http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2009/07/16/holocaust-the-ignored-reality/

    And the figure of Jewish civilians killed, among millions of others, historians like Snyder agree, is about 5.1 to 5.2 million, not the 6 million one given right after WWII and before German and other historians did their research.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Anonymous
  85. bjondo says:
    @Robert A.

    Did the other women push her towards the GI’s hoping to save themselves?

    Did the other women rush out to get there fair share of goodies?

    Have you approached the Pentagon or Spielberg to back a script?

  86. j2 says:
    @Mulegino1

    Yes, you are right, but Jews, who were taken to the Soviet Union mostly did not appear later. It is impossible to know exactly (or even roughly) what happened to them, there was the war, there were camps on both sides. But we do know that most deaths of Jews did not happen in the Western Europe or West Poland (that is, the area about west of the present Polish east boundary), but in the East (the Soviet Union of 1941 after taking Baltic states and East Poland). The Jewish dead in the West and Western Poland were about 1 million according to the accepted figures given for ghettos and work camps, war and all other things (for German camps alone 0.76M in my calculation), the rest is in the East. We do not know what exactly happened in the East. Germans shot some number (maybe 500,000?), many died in German camps, many evacuated died in Soviet camps, there was the war. In some way an additional 2 million+ (probably) died in the East bringing the death toll to 3-3.5 million (unless you have better information). It is known more or less how many survived, but it was a major war, and there is no hard evidence for a planned genocide.

  87. Erebus says:
    @sarz

    It would be good if Ron could get someone to present an authoritative account giving the evidence in support of such belief.

    I doubt he’ll find someone more authoritative than Raul Hilberg (The Destruction of the European Jews), who took a shot at it at Zundel’s 1st trial in Toronto. After that, I don’t think anyone will try it again. He was destroyed under cross-examination, and declined to participate in Zundel’s 2nd trial.

    It should be noted that by the time of the trial, after >3 decades of research into the Holocaust, Hilberg had already concluded that the there was no evidence and that the Nazis must have pulled it off using ESP. In the Forward to the final, “definitive” edition of his 3 Vol. magnum opus he states that…

    In the final analysis, the destruction of the Jews was not so much a product of laws and commands as it was a matter of spirit, of shared comprehension, of consonance and synchronization [DEJ, p. 55].

    It must have been so, as no authoritative person has gainsaid his explanation since, and I’d wager no one ever will. The bottom line is that the revisionists are wasting their time. They have nothing to refute as no evidence has ever been presented.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @jilles dykstra
  88. MrB says:
    @Johnny Smoggins

    They know that even starting a genuine endeavour for the proof and truth would cause instant failure because that particular third rail is very dangerous with the current being controlled by you know who.

    Any investigation into holocaust ‘fact’ suggests to those who control things that the investigator is doubting the hitherto established truth.

    No holocaust excavations and truth seeking can ever be allowed to happen because the truth will out and that would kill the whole jewish thing stone dead.

  89. MrB says:
    @Johnny Smoggins

    Really? I don’t understand that logic.

    The Palestinian holocaust is in full view of the world and cannot be doubted. The other one well er…

    • Replies: @Karl
  90. The bigger question is what do you do with an outgroup that is hostile, has a double set of morals, uses political and financial power to destroy and replace the culture and institutions of the majority, while supporting their physical replacement and pitting every new and imported victim group against the majority. That’s pretty much Jewish group politics in a nutshell, when they aren’t being traitors for Israel. Should there be no reaction or backlash?

    I don’t believe the official holocaust story. But, if half of what Jews are accused of doing during the Weimar era and during the holodomor is true, then it only makes sense that all steps were taken to destroy Jewish power, and the Jewish community which likely supported and benefited from Jewish power. War is ugly, and it doesn’t always involve soldiers or take place on a battlefield.

    I personally don’t care one bit about what may or may not have happened to European Jews 80 years ago. I care about Jewish power in the U.S. today, and how it is hostile and destructive towards the majority. The question is the same now as 80 years ago.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Momus
  91. bjondo says:
    @Colin Wright

    And
    you could question yourself:

    http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=85432

    according to the World Almanac the world population of Jews increased (!) between 1933 and 1948 from 15,315,000 to 15,753,000.

  92. @Colin Wright

    ANONYMOUS, ‘The Myth of Six Million’, Los Angelos, 1973, 1969

  93. bjondo says:
    @utu

    Did someone say Zuesse is Jew? Think he is.

    • Replies: @utu
  94. @anonymous

    Thanks.
    But for a discussion elsewhere I once made a list of my books on the jewish persections, 39.
    The problem with the holocaust is the same as with the Armenian genocide, both have become such a part of identities that rational arguments have no effect.
    On top of that, discusision of the jewish persecutions, denied by nobody, as Armenian casualties are not denied by anybody, distracts from the, in my opinion, prime issue: why was there a WW II with at least 60 million deaths, among these 10 million Germans, and how does WWII allied propagada affect present day policies to this day ?
    Did Merkel welcome mass immigration to change the German people ?

  95. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    said:
    “It happened. In 1939, there were 9.5 million Jews in Europe; in 1945 there were 3.8 million. 5.7 million Jews vanished. Where did they go? There are lots of interesting arguments and discussions to have about World War Two, Nazism, Hitler, etc, etc. However, whether or not the Holocaust in fact happened is not one of them. You might as well question the existence of Australia.”

    - So is that why you cannot refute the arguments made against the impossible absurdities? Why do you dodge?

    - What’s the source of those numbers? The usual Zionist liars?

    - If Jews are so sure that millions of Jews were murdered, then why do they ask Revisionists such dumb questions like “so then, what happened to them?” Jews went where Jews are. But Jews tell us that murdered Jews WENT to huge mass graves and that to this day they know the locations of these alleged mass graves. So why don’t they excavate the alleged enormous ‘mass graves’, show the world the millions of Jew corpses, and prove their point?

    - The mere fact that there are endless “survivors” when it’s claimed that ‘the Germans tried to kill every Jew they could get their hands on’ blows away the impossible ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

    - Tell us how the ridiculously alleged ‘gas chambers’ were supposed to have worked.

    - No doubt the past worldwide belief in witchcraft also proved the existence of Australia.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @j2
  96. MrB says:
    @Colin Wright

    Really, you believe figures of jews having been counted pre war as correct and in 1945 counting jews again in a war ravaged continent split in two by the Russian block and when being jewish was best kept as a secret?

  97. Wally says:
    @Erebus

    Indeed, no proof has been produced.
    It’s mostly about who controls the microphone: the media and corrupted ‘academia’. So who is that?

    we’ve often fantasized about drawing up an indictment against Adolf Hitler himself. And to put into that indictment the major charge: the Final Solution of the Jewish question in Europe, the physical annihilation of Jewry. And then it dawned upon us, what would we do? We didn’t have the evidence.”
    - so called “holocaust historian”, Raul Hilberg

    Below is where free speech on the impossible ‘holocaust’ storyline is illegal, violators go to prison for Thought Crimes.
    An obvious admission that the storyline doesn’t stand up to scientific, logical, & rational scrutiny.

    http://www.codoh.com

  98. Wally says:
    @j2

    Jews evacuated to USSR during war

    https://archive.is/jA9iI

    and:
    more Jews evacuated to USSR during war

    https://www.jta.org/1944/02/23/archive/german-lauds-russia-for-joining-intergovernmental-committee-for-refugees

    The Deportation of Hungarian Jews from May to July 1944
    by Carlo Mattogno

    https://codoh.com/library/document/357/?lang=en

    most of them were transferred OUT of Auschwitz, none were gassed, ever

    Chemistry of Auschwitz / Birkenau

    http://www.codoh.com

  99. annamaria says:
    @jilles dykstra

    “The possibility that the majority of the deaths was causes by the camp management of inmates of course cannot be true.
    Yet even Elie Wiesel describes it.
    He never saw a gas chamber, just assumed that they existed.
    If now Israel succeeds in causing a world war, the last, nobody will survive, in the effort to get regime change in Teheran, who will see this last world war as a jewish war ?”
    — The zionist purists hate when the documented facts of zionists collaboration with Nazis (whether in the past or currently in Ukraine) are coming to light. Nothing undermines the holocaust biz more than the dead silence of 52 main American Jewish organizations with regard to the current Nazi revival in Ukraine and the refusal of the same 52 main American Jewish organizations to condemn the US support (political and military) to the Banderites.
    When the oh-so-righteous Zeuss writes, “for Hitler, the Holocaust — the “final solution” — was not a military device, it was a military goal; in fact, it was the central military goal, which took precedence over even the expansion of Lebensraum,” he reminds of Israel’s fervent desire for “final solution” on the Israel-occupied territories. The illegal Israeli settlements are the Israeli version of “expansion of Lebensraum.” The zionists’ military goal of destroying Iran (on the US dime and limb) is another aspect of “expansion of Lebensraum.”
    The zionists involvement in designing and pushing for the ongoing slaughter in the Middle East has been well documented: http://historycommons.org/searchResults.jsp?searchtext=neoconservative+Israel&events=on&entities=on&articles=on&topics=on&timelines=on&projects=on&titles=on&descriptions=on&dosearch=on&search=Go
    It is hard to react to the “Hitler” word after the major criminals like Clinton and Blair have been using the word liberally to promote their anti-human policies.

  100. Wally says:
    @escobar

    No sources, just a Zionist talking. Which generally means lying.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  101. @Colin Wright

    “Ironically, Germany’s Jews would up with one of the higher rates of national survival among the various Jewish populations of Europe because of this.”

    Must be alleged survival rates. The different death counts are certainly grossly exaggerated for propaganda purposes.

  102. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    The alleged number of Jews is complete nonsense. There are many, many more then they let on. Here’s proof:

    Most Jews are not ‘religious’ so they do not say they are Jews in census questions about religion. They consider themselves Jews nonetheless. They want you to think they are so few & helpless victims when in fact they create massive resentment towards themselves by their owns actions.

    According to Jewish law Jews are to avoid being counted.

    “To actually count Jews directly is forbidden (Talmud, Yoma 22b), as the prophet says: “And the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which shall neither be measured nor counted.”

    http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/896203/jewish/Laws-of-Counting-Jews.htm

    and:

    ‘Why is it forbidden to count Jews?’

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/18472

    “This opening verse of our Biblical portion teaches that it is forbidden to take a number count of the Israelites, a census activity which Jewish organizations are constantly involved in doing. This prohibition is reinforced by the prophet Hosea (chapter 2), when he declares: “The number of the children of Israel shall be as the sands of the sea, which cannot be numbered and cannot be counted…” And historically even King David learned the bitter lesson of the power of this command, when- against the will of his Chief Commander Joab – he ordered a census, and the Israelites suffered a plague (II Samuel, 24). “

    and:

    “We reached the [Balfour] Declaration not by miracles, but through persistent propaganda, through unceasing demonstration of the life force of our people. We told the responsible authorities: We will establish ourselves in Palestine whether you like it or not. You can hasten our arrival or you can equally retard it. It is however better for you to help us so as to avoid our constructive powers being turned into a destructive power which will overthrow the world.”
    - World Zionist leader [1st President of Israël] Chaim Weizmann, speech in Jerusalem, December 1919.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Josecanuc
  103. j2 says:
    @Wally

    Colin Wright writes:
    “It happened. In 1939, there were 9.5 million Jews in Europe; in 1945 there were 3.8 million. 5.7 million Jews vanished. Where did they go? There are lots of interesting arguments and discussions to have about World War Two, Nazism, Hitler, etc, etc. However, whether or not the Holocaust in fact happened is not one of them. You might as well question the existence of Australia.”

    Ok, I looked at thisa long time ago. First you have to subtract the German and Austrian Jews who escaped Germany and Austria. It does not matter if they escaped to South America, as is usually stated, or if they went to France, Netherlands and Belgium, because it is known that Nazis captured from Western Europe about 1.82 million Jews and the rest stayed. You have Jews, who could have died in Western Poland 1.82+1.5 million +0.06. This is, there were c. 3.25M Jews in Poland, 1.8m in the West and the rest in the East, but in 1941 some escaped to the East. This 0.06M is the new transports from East to West in Poland. Then you calculate how many were in the Western Poland, subtract those that you know and end up to the upper bound 400,000 Jews could have died in Auschwitz, but this is only an upper bound. The upper bound ignores 100,000 Polish Jews, who came after 1946 to DP camps, maybe 200,000 who died in death marches, and 3.25M Jews in Poland in 1939 is only an estimate, it could be 3M, or even less. Many moved to France. They had a real problem of Polish Jews.

    You say 9,5M Jews in 1939. Subtract the emigrated German and Austrian Jews, it goes to 8.9M. You say 3,8M in 1945. Add the Jews who came to the DP camps after 1946, you will see that the number of missing Jews is 4.5M. Then question the figure the Soviet Union gave for 1939 and check the US Jewish population growth from 1900 to 1950. You see that 1 million additional Jews moved to the USA before 1939 that are not in the immigration figures. So, the figure from the SU for 1939 was 1M too high (it was announced as 2.8M for the SU in 1941 before taking Eastern Poland, must have been 1.8M).

    Hope this helps, I did calculate these things for a long time and carefully. I have all my calculations on my web site, if you care to see.

  104. bj says:
    @Robert A.

    Eye witness testimony is often rewriting one’s personal narrative to conform to the orthodoxy of the victors or the opportunists. Millions of years of evolution cast women in the conforming role, easily changing sides to survive. It is in the interest of Life’s continuing experiment on planet earth!

  105. Wally says:
    @j2

    What the hell are you talking about?

    Where are your sources?

    What “death marches”?

    LOL

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @j2
  106. renfro says:

    ”regarding Mr. Irving, lots of (as Kennett has put it), “the things he had left out,” and that I think invalidate Irving’s works, because the motivation behind those omissions is clear and is not considered acceptable by most historians. ”
    ”David S. Wyman’s 1984 The Abandonment of the Jews documents (pp. 100, 365, 410) the repeated refusal of President Franklin D. Roosevelt to meet with Jewish leaders to deal with the problem, and also establishes the President’s own personal knowledge of the Nazis’ anti-Semitic exterminations.

    Lets talk about what the Jew leave out or better put what they lie about :

    Saving the Jews: Rossevelt and the Holocaust

    http://www.savingthejews.com/html/carterlibraryspeech.htm

    Carter Center Library Speech
    Robert Rosen – July 17, 2006

    ”This book was inspired by a visit to the Boston Holocaust Memorial near Quincy Market. My daughter, Ali, then a student at Phillips Academy, and I visited that Holocaust Memorial, and we read these words: “By late 1942, the United States and its Allies were aware of the death camps, but did nothing to destroy them.”

    I told Ali that this statement could not possibly be true. The United States was not even a belligerent in World War II until December 7, 1941 when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. How could we have saved the Jews of Europe in 1942?

    # “The Holocaust Museum takes one of Kubowitzki’s numerous letters to John McCloy, assistant Secretary of War and enlarged it to make it appear that he was requesting the bombing of Auschwitz. Not True. This letter, the centerpiece of the Museum’s display on the bombing of Auschwitz, merely passed on a message from the Czechoslovakian government in exile and McCloy was well aware that Kubowitzki and the World Jewish Congress adamantly opposed the bombing of Auschwitz. (View First Letter View Second Letter) (I have written the Holocaust Museum about this blatant error, but have yet to hear back from their Chief Historian.)”

    #” Contrary to popular belief, and in the face of strict immigration quotas, both the leadership of the American Jewish community and the Roosevelt Administration were actively involved in trying to save as many Jews as they reasonably could prior to the outbreak of World War II in September 1939 and the fall of France in June, 1940. 25% of all German Jews had fled from Germany between 1933 and 1937. In September 1939 the German Jewish population was 185,000 meaning 340,000 German Jews (65%) had fled prior to World War II. Of the 185,000 Jews in Austria in 1938, 126,000 had emigrated by 1940. (441) Between 1933 and 1942, 161,000 Jews came to the U.S. Between 1938-1940 half of all immigrants to the U.S. were Jews. [ I repeat, half of all immigrants…] The United States accepted about twice as many refugees as the rest of the world combined, 200,000 of 300,000.

    Also included in this are the facts on the St. Louis.

    #”The critics say that Roosevelt refused to let Jewish refugees come to America. The voyage of the S.S. St. Louis, the “Voyage of the Damned,” is the chief incident trumpeted against him. Let the facts speak for themselves. The St. Louis sailed from Hamburg in May of 1939 before either World War II or The Final Solution had begun. It arrived in Cuba. The Jewish passengers had purchased visas which were illegal under Cuban law and the Cuban president would not honor them. The State Department and the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee-known as the “Joint”- worked day and night to convince the Cubans to take in the passengers. The Joint sent a lawyer to Havana with a suitcase full of money to bribe the Cuban government. Henry Morganthau Jr., Roosevelt’s Jewish Secretary of the Treasury, the person in charge of the Coast Guard, was personally involved. Sadly, all of their efforts failed. 29 of the 936 passengers got off in Cuba. Even though the Roosevelt Administration urged the Cuban government to allow the remaining 907 passengers to land, the S.S. St. Louis began its return to Europe. With the active intervention of the State Department and the “Joint”, the St. Louis went to England (not Germany), where 288 of the 907 passengers disembarked and survived the Holocaust. The remaining 619 disembarked at Antwerp and went to France, Belgium, and Holland. The leading authorities on the St. Louis estimate that 392 of the 619 who disembarked at Antwerp survived the war. Thus more than 2/3 of the passengers on the St. Louis survived the Holocaust.

    The US made a huge mistake in saving the Jews. Gratitude and honesty are not in the Jews DNA.
    They are and always will be the scorpion on the frog’s back.

  107. @Stephen Paul Foster

    Where that quotation appears in the text, a footnote is appended to it, and one sees the footnote on page 895 of the latest edition, and all that it says to dismiss the quotation is what I have quoted in this article.

    However, having read the reader-comments up to this point (comment #46), I notice that none even so much as mentions the key quotation that I present in this article, which is “in his Secret Conversations (Table Talk) of 21 October 1941, Hitler concluded his long tirade against Jews: ‘By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service …’,” which should settle the matter as to whether Hitler was proud of his “extermination” of Jews, which people he held to be a “pest,” and which “infection” in his other writings he called a “bacterium,” just as did Himmler. So, all these reader-comments evade that admission by Hitler. Furthermore, all till now have been evading: “The Führer’s words right before his suicide — his final, supreme, statement of his war-aims — urged his people to continue the war, until victory, against what he held to be the sole real enemy: ‘the poisoner of all nations, international Jewry.”” I frankly don’t understand how anyone, after seeing those two statements from Hitler himself, at and near his end, can leave any reasonable doubt as to whether David Irving is a liar. My book explains why Hitler sought the extermination of Jews: he really did believe that intermarriage of them with non-Jews caused the spreading of a blood-infection. Hitler attributed every bad trait that he held to be universal among all Jews, to being the result of that “infection.” He first got his idea for the extermination plan, in September 1919, which was when he entered politics in order to become enabled to effectuate his intention.

  108. denjae says:
    @Thomm

    My long-time girlfriend.

    Born 1930 – USA (Yeah, we’re old people.)

    To German-Jewish-American parents, who immigrated post-WW1
    and became employed by one of the Rockefeller’s.

    Traveled with parents to Germany, mid-late-1930’s, to visit relatives.

    Contracted pertussis (“whooping cough” “100-day cough.”) Re-entry to USA was refused. Remained behind with relatives to recover, return to USA.

    War ensued.

    Was hidden from Nazis by Jewish and non-Jewish families alike.

    Then came close to being fire-bombed to death by USA . . . Dresden.

    Found and re-united, post-war, 1945 with parents in USA.

    Miracle indeed.

  109. hyperbola says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    One has only to remember what sect carried out the biggest genocide in Europe of the 2oth century (killing at least four-times more people than adolf) to wonder why we are inundated continuously with propaganda about a smaller incident.

    Stalin’s Jews
    We mustn’t forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish

    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

    Here’s a particularly forlorn historical date: Almost 90 years ago, between the 19th and 20th of December 1917, in the midst of the Bolshevik revolution and civil war, Lenin signed a decree calling for the establishment of The All-Russian Extraordinary Commission for Combating Counter-Revolution and Sabotage, also known as Cheka.

    Within a short period of time, Cheka became the largest and cruelest state security organization. Its organizational structure was changed every few years, as were its names: From Cheka to GPU, later to NKVD, and later to KGB.

    We cannot know with certainty the number of deaths Cheka was responsible for in its various manifestations, but the number is surely at least 20 million, including victims of the forced collectivization, the hunger, large purges, expulsions, banishments, executions, and mass death at Gulags.

    Whole population strata were eliminated: Independent farmers, ethnic minorities, members of the bourgeoisie, senior officers, intellectuals, artists, labor movement activists, “opposition members” who were defined completely randomly, and countless members of the Communist party itself…..

    ….. And us, the Jews? An Israeli student finishes high school without ever hearing the name “Genrikh Yagoda,” the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, the GPU’s deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD. Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin’s collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people. His Jewish deputies established and managed the Gulag system…. In 1934, according to published statistics, 38.5 percent of those holding the most senior posts in the Soviet security apparatuses were of Jewish origin. …..

    • Replies: @Alberto Campos
  110. @Jake

    This is how Hitler defined “Jew”; and here is how he started in 1933 to carry out his plan, based upon CHURCH membership archives:

    Eberhard Bethge, who had been a liberal Protestant cleric during the Third Reich, was interviewed in the last chapter of Augustin Hedberg’s 1992 FAITH UNDER FIRE and was asked what those years had been like. Bethge commented, “‘Bad blood’ was the great term. You had to have Aryan blood.” Hitler, in only his private statements, had defined “Aryan,” as pureblooded Christian. Bethge’s interviewer inquired, “So we know this Jewish poison [Jewish blood] had to be cleansed. How did they propose to do that?” Bethge replied, tellingly: “For instance, everybody in an office, in a village, in a city, in a province, in Berlin, had to prove that he had [only] Aryan ancestors. How could he do that? He could do it only if he wrote to church officers in the villages or in the cities and asked them to look in the old books of the church in which baptisms were recorded. So many pastors and church secretaries had to work for hours and hours, weeks and months to answer all these requests. ‘Please give me an excerpt out of the church files that proves my ancestors had been Christians.’ The church officers and the ministers, they didn’t care. They did that. They said, ‘How important we are now.’ I was an assistant curator in the winter of ’33. I had to sit all morning and look through the books and answer these letters.” It was therefore the Christian clergy themselves–people indoctrinated with John 8:44, and Matthew 27:25, and Matthew 23:31-36, and Luke 19:27, etc.–who were the proud implementers of the indispensable first step in the Nazis’ 12-year-long “racist” war against the Jews, by supplying the crucial raw data for segregating-out Jews. Bethge was even honest enough to admit, “We were anti-Semitic, and we thought this was Christian.” The essential first step in the “final solution” was this identification of who was NOT an “Aryan,” who WAS “a Jew.” Hitler commanded this first step in the year he came into power, 1933, and the Christian clergy executed it with pride. And yet even today, so-called “historians” say that Hitler didn’t have execution of the Jews in mind from the very start, and that Hitler was no Christian, and so forth. “Historians” have not been doing their job, for the truth. That’s why the general public cannot separate propaganda from history–the latter is just an extension of the former. Compare this account of the origin off how the Nazis managed to identify who was “a Jew” and who was not, that was given in a traditional history book on that topic, Edwin Black’s 2001 IBM AND THE HOLOCAUST. Christianity’s role is ignored.

  111. Anonymous[199] • Disclaimer says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    I’m sorry that you only took part of the defective batch of red pills when and because, irrelevantly, you were upset at Irving being punished for what you trustingly – and strictly inaccurately – call his “views”. If the indignant brain can be switched on again you might try setting aside the fact that lots of nasty destructive things were done in the 20th century that had nothing much to do with Hitler and the Jews and reset your starting point by studying the previous history of German anti-Semitism (and you might look at the willingness to commit genocide in Namibia in still high fertility days), the Kaiser suggesting exterminating the Jews with gas as, a comment elsewhere has noted, and Hitler’s long record of obsessive anti-Semitism. Hence the betrayal by a once great nation of Western civilization. Leave off treating as an issue whether the total number was 4 million or 6 million out of about 11 million. The Jews were Hitler’s leading candidates for extermination, as the mass deportations of women, children and old people from Western Europe should on its own be almost enough to wrap it up.

    • Replies: @Paul C.
  112. j2 says:
    @Wally

    Sorry Wally, it is not for you, see whom I wrote it to from the beginning quote. Pressed incorrect key.

  113. hyperbola says:

    Zuesse has made a name for himself elsewhere as a “defender” of zionist crimes against Palestinians. He is about as reliable on this topic as Netanyahu himself, who told us that the Hitler is not guilty for the Holocaust.

    Netanyahu Exonerates Hitler of Responsibility for the Holocaust

    https://azvsas.blogspot.com/2015/10/netanyahu-exonerates-hitler-of.html

    At the World Zionist Organisation Congress on 20th October, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu made what, even by his standards was an outrageous claim. Hitler was initially only in favour of expelling Jews from Europe (what was known as the Madgascar Plan) and that it was the Mufti who persuaded him of the merits of exterminating them…..

    • Replies: @Eric Zuesse
  114. @utu

    Ad-hominem attacks are the preferred method for someone who has no evidence. Besides, what you said is false in every regard, except that my book does document that Hitler had an extraordinarily good memory and in all his reliably transcribed and written statements he paraphrased from over a hundred lines from throughout the Bible, and he believed himself to be carrying out the intention of Jesus regarding the Jews. However, Hitler also was profoundly influenced by Genesis 3, and by Revelations. However, after the Pope in 1937 made clear to him that the Pope’s moral authority was higher than was Hitler’s, Hitler changed his mind and concluded that the problem with Jews wasn’t necessarily that they had descended from the Snake in Genesis 3, but that their blood was infected with a bacterium, which must not be passed along (via intermarriage) to pure-blooded Christians.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @utu
    , @Svigor
  115. Robjil says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    We have a middle east Holocaust happening today. The world is silent. Old testament fanaticism is the center piece of it. Iraq 1991 invasion ended on Purim by killing 150000 Iraqis surrendering troops by US bombs from the air. 2003 Iraq invasion started on Purim. 2011 Libya invasion started on Purim. Mad Albright said 500000 Iraqi dying from sanctions is ok in the 1990s. This Old testament fanaticism needs to be addressed for the sake of humanity and our planet.

  116. Anon[317] • Disclaimer says:
    @Heros

    Poland, who will not allow any forensics on these 11 million to be undertaken. Poland, the nation who helped cover up Katyn for the Bolsheviks to pin it all on Germany during the sham Nuremburg trials. How convenient.

    its more than the math.. its intention.. the USA imprisoned its Japanese, and because the USA was capable to feed them few died.. Germany was unable to feed its own, much less those who were held outside of its society so many died, could the deaths have been a matter or priorities?

    The giant question why the Germans came to oppose Jewish presence, seems to me Hitler wished to alienate genetic affliction not competing races.

    Another question Can Hollow Cost propaganda, puppet German leadership, banker backed Zionist (1897) intentions to both eliminate Germany from the competition for the Arab oil and to increase the rate of Jewish infiltration in to Arab lands for the purpose to creating a Zionist controlled political structure which could lead the taking of the oil from the Arabs be reconciled?

    For that matter the entire issue associated to Lenin’s October revolution comes under suspicion as it might also be a part of that “take the oil by migration” plan.

    Somewhere in my library is a book with words to the effect that Hitler offered any nation (that would accept into citizenship any German Jewish person (a $5,000 relocation bounty). Who can give me a reference to that. so I don’t have to look it up.

  117. Anonymous[199] • Disclaimer says:
    @escobar

    Thank you for that link. It is important occasionally to fortify oneself against the perverted addleheaded crap that the vermin endlessly spit out.

  118. kikl says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    “And yet even today, so-called “historians” say that Hitler didn’t have execution of the Jews in mind from the very start, and that Hitler was no Christian, and so forth.”

    If Hitler had execution in mind in 1933 then why did he pursue a policy of making the jews emigrate? He couldn’t kill the jews once they had emigrated!?

    For this reason, every reasonable historian rejects the idea that Hitler had already in mind to kill all of the jews in 1933.

    • Replies: @Eric Zuesse
  119. Anonymous[199] • Disclaimer says:
    @Erebus

    Has it not occurred to even the arrogant amateur that you are that there is no special advantage for a serious historian to refute the ragtag teams of denialists? Actually more likely to be seen as demeaning. It is as ignorant as thinking that, because some historian performs badly – as a convincing expert witness – under professional cross-examination, what he knows and writes about is discredited. (Have you ever been cross-examined by a $1000s an hour top trial lawyer, in the witness box or when deposing?).

    Doesn’t the deportation of Jewish women, children and old people strike you as difficult to explain innocently?

    • Agree: Momus
    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @Mulegino1
  120. ltravail says:

    This critique of David Irving’s work is more like the work of a journalistic mercenary than of an honestly objective intellect. Irving was one of the most widely-read and celebrated writers of WW2-related history earlier in his career. But that was until he published “Hitler’s War.” That massive work once was even required, or highly-recommended, reading in military institutions over the world, including in the US. It wasn’t until a certain (and well-documented) cadre launched their extensive and wildly successful anti-Irving campaign that the public (or the more weakly-constituted elements of it) accepted the view of Irving as a pariah, and “Hitler’s War” was removed from the recommended reading lists of those aforementioned military institutions. Even after all these years (since the first publication of that remarkable work) this campaign continues. This hit piece is just the latest salvo in that great defamation campaign (though much applause and respect is due Ron Unz for having the conviction to put David Irving and his work in the spotlight).

    I have read most of Irving’s major (and minor) work, and have attended a couple of his lectures. His work makes other, more “acceptable”, WW2 historians (particularly those dealing with the German National Socialist regime) look like writers of folklore rather than facts-based history. He’s like the Art Tatum of WW2 historiographers – his instrumental command is so daunting that it makes most of the rest look ham-handed!

    Allow me to relate that I am a non-white American male. I say this because one of the (many) charges against Irving is that he’s a “racist” by nature – which, by implication, also means “anti-semitic”, as his tormentors would wish to convey. As I said, I have heard Irving in-person and viewed numerous other of his lectures of the past three decades – as well as having read most of his material. There is no doubt the man has a particular affinity for the “old” England – the England of empire – into which he was born and bred. And he makes no bones about lamenting the loss of his “jolly old England” by the shift in that nation’s immigration policies after WW2. But I have also heard him speak endearingly about the Afro-Caribbean immigrant female who used to be his assistant (who, in his words, he hired because she was the most qualified for the job).

    There is nothing that I have read in any of Irving’s works that would indicate what the man’s proclivities and prejudices are. He certainly does not spare Hitler or any of the other leading National Socialists (or Churchill, himself!) of that time of harsh judgment when due. But neither does he succumb to the worn-out fashion of making the people of that era and place caricatures of monstrosity. Needless to say, there was plenty of monstrosity on all sides in that era.

    If there is any merit to the charge of Irving as a “racist”, then you might say it’s a character flaw that is easily divorced from the merits of his work. And even if one wanted to believe that Irving is a “racist”, that does not make the man dishonest, a liar…a Cretin. The merits of his work are unimpeachable, which certainly has much, if not everything, to do with the vigor and extent to which this extraordinary scholar has been (and still is being) persecuted.

    • Replies: @L.K
  121. @j2

    This is a reasonable comment, and your numbers are not out of line with the only real demographic study of the issue I’m aware of (Sanning); this is a very challenging problem requiring all kinds of assumptions.

    Needless to say, that many Jews died from various German actions (mass shootings in the course of anti-partisan activity or deportations) in no way supports the claims of an extermination program, nor does it make credible the absurd eyewitness accounts of places like Treblinka.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Wally
  122. peterAUS says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Good post.

    Especially this:

    This is not even the topic. What they would, reasonably, argue with that Jewish nationalists’ constant drumming on the theme & emotional blackmail in trying to extort as much money as possible and advance their tribalist interests at the expense of the natives’ is simply unacceptable.

    I’d go one step more:
    What they would, reasonably, argue with that neoliberal elites constant drumming on the theme & emotional blackmail in trying to advance their globalist interests at the expense of the natives’ is simply unacceptable.

    That’s the core issue smart people should be focusing on.

    Not here, of course.

    These…ahm….”debates”…are about something else.

  123. @Thomm

    The ones who stayed were ‘progressives’ who believed in assimilation. The realists and Zionists (not always the same people) got out as soon as they could.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  124. peterAUS says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Yup.

    My awakening came with the Zundel trials in Toronto.

    Mine too, regarding the official truth and (some) governments reaction to challenging it.

    Still, does not change, IMHO, the core issue:
    An organized effort by an advanced European state, to eradicate an ethnic minority from within. All of them.
    Keywords “eradicate” and the most important, ALL.

    There was something there much deeper than just politics, anger against the group, war and such.
    Something…I don’t know….primordial…mythical……religious…..?

    I guess that deep “thing” combined with advanced European state made it, and still makes it, so……what…frightening for some, and interesting for some other.

  125. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @jilles dykstra

    “jewry provoked Kristallnacht”. You are kidding aren’t you? You sound as you have joined a special closeted too-many-books section of the tinfoil hat brigade.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  126. utu says:
    @bjondo

    Did someone say Zuesse is Jew?

    You do not have to be a Jew to make Hitler or Christianity the object of your hate and obsession. His idée fixe is not very original. Many feeble minds and weak characters succumbed to it. Certainly the guy suffers from the delusion of grandeur. He aims high. In one self-published book he wants to finish off Jesus and in the second he finishes off Hitler on account that Hitler believed in that fake Jesus or something and that made him plan Holocaust so cleverly that nobody noticed that he did. Fortunately Zuesse came and discovered it all for everybody.

  127. @Thomm

    I say it is outright, self-evident inferiority of defective whites

    Well, I don’t think that anyone here will argue that you are a qualified expert on being inferior and defective to the point of self-evidence. You are an undeniable master of unhealthy obsessions. Each successive comment you post on this site serves only to further cement that truth.

    That said, Uncle Thomm, your blatant obsession with white ‘trashionalists’ is very heavy handed. Yet you don’t seem to see it. You just trudge on, accusing others of being defective and inferior, all while somehow remaining utterly blind to the irony of your own words. Never actually having anything relevant to say. But never forgetting to top your posts off with a reminder to everyone about how you are white yourself . You really seem to go out of your way to reinforce that part. More than any actual white person realistically ever would, in fact. Mostly because believing that stating your skin color will in turn add some otherwise missing degree of substance or validation to their claims is a notoriously… shall we say ‘negro’ thing to do in America.

    mainstream whites like me.

    Oh, you so fly, mainstream white! Tell us how it do!

    Even among the delinquent Left, terms like ‘white trashionalist’ remain largely American negro buzz words only. ‘AmeriKKKa’ is another such example.

    And to use a source like Roosh to validate your own petty racism! How comically par for the course. ACTUAL scientists and their professional study of the differences between the races is just so…. racist, after all! Bunch of white trashionalists in lab coats, am I right? So why not just rely on some equally credible secondary sources, like swarthy Arab pick up artists. 10/10 my friend. Sound logic for… for a negro searching desperately for anything to assuage his own inferiority complex in lieu of valid science. /sarc

    Which brings me to my point. Despite your constant posturing, I highly doubt that anyone here actually believes you are white. I mean, if it’s all just a mental hoop you have to jump through to psyche yourself up when you come here to talk your crap, then you do you. But I don’t think anyone else is buying it. You can say you don’t care, but you obviously do. The only thing you do as intensely as you throw around the term ‘white trashionalist’ around here is try to remind everyone else that you are white. I don’t think you realize how obvious you are being. Which is hard to believe.

    That, and your rhetoric in general stinks of envy and you project like a dime-a-dozen college Red Guard zealot reading his social justice essay from the designated white-free campus safe space where he spends his time petting puppies and practicing how to properly draw the swastikas he intends to scribble in feces somewhere on campus and blame on the ‘white trashionalists’ to get media attention.

    Odds are overwhelming that you are black, that you feel inferior about yourself and your own race, and that those feelings have manifested as envious hatred towards the whites you come here to vent at by lambasting them with your petty hatred for daring to have their own identity like everyone else on the planet is entitled to. And then pathetically attempting to hide your tracks behind a digital ‘white face’ mask in a cheap bid to add some non-existent legitimacy to your petulant criticisms, and in turn (hopefully) avoid your fragile ego suffering any return fire from the community here, whom it seems you know would readily and irrefutably eviscerate that fragile disposition of yours even worse than they still do now if you were to (proudly?) admit you were black while speaking your hateful mind here.

    Good times, Uncle Thomm.

    • Replies: @Thomm
  128. In fact, tribalism seems to be coming into vogue again throughout the world.

    when was it ever out of fashion? especially in the case of jews? the other races are simply waking up to this fact and are now arming themselves the same way. blacks in the usa were the first ones to catch on.

    when every race cheats like the jews, no more advantage. scary times ahead for jews.

  129. I don’t now, but if this article is the best they can come up with, Irving wins.

  130. @kikl

    Why, then, did Hitler have pastors in all of the churches provide the new Government their archival baptismal records for everyone in their parish?

    • Replies: @kikl
    , @FKA Max
  131. i am a bit bemused by the constant debate on this subject. If germany austria, poland, belgium, and other eurpoean official state entities say there was a holocaust, I just am unclear why I shouldn’t believe them.

    even collective guilt wouldn’t be enough, in my view for them to accept the matter without some rebuttal. Whether Hitler was a diabolical evil or a misguided miscreant, doesn’t really matter, he along with others either designed, implemented or supported the events concerning offenses against noncombatants and hitler as chancellor would rightly be held accountable.

    Acknowledging such atrocities that justifies agreeing to every israeli demand on foreign policy or supporting outlawing “free speech” on issues related to the subject.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  132. peterAUS says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    ..Hitler changed his mind and concluded that the problem with Jews wasn’t necessarily that they had descended from the Snake in Genesis 3, but that their blood was infected with a bacterium, which must not be passed along (via intermarriage) to pure-blooded Christians.

    Would you be so kind to point to some online source re above, please?

    You are, apparently, an expert in the matter.
    Question, then:
    How much of the “thing” was just Hitler (a person), how much his inner circle (say, Himmler, Goebbels, Goering, Hess) , how much top Nazi elite and, well, how much Nazis (the movement) in general?

    “Thing” being that peculiar attitude re Jews in general.

    • Replies: @Eric Zuesse
  133. kikl says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    I don’t understand your question. How does the baptismal record prove the will to exterminate?

    Hitler even made an agreement with zionist jews in order to transfer German Jews to palestine. It is called the transfer agreement or Haavara agreement. Take a look here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

    This proves that Hitler had no intention of killing all the jews in 1933.

    • Replies: @Eric Zuesse
    , @Eric Zuesse
  134. Momus says:
    @Wally

    “Eichmann….flywheel of the extermination machine.”

    Benthic Wally… flywheel of the denier/liar machine.

    • Replies: @Cloak And Dagger
    , @Wally
  135. peterAUS says:
    @Frank Hilliard

    Agree.

    One could say that the regime tried to eradicate very those who actually wanted to assimilate.

    Personally, I find that quite interesting.

    Feels as……eradicating competition or, just simple envy? Heavy dose of scapegoating too.

  136. The leap from here:

    Hitler commanded this first step in the year he came into power, 1933, and the Christian clergy executed it with pride.

    to Here:

    And yet even today, so-called “historians” say that Hitler didn’t have execution of the Jews in mind from the very start

    is without basis in fact or logic..

    a. re “Hitler, in only his private statements, had defined “Aryan,” as pureblooded Christian.
    So we should disregard all the business about “blonde hair and blue eyes = Aryan” as propagandistic nonsense, and “Aryan supremacy” as nonsense, since “Hitler. . . had defined “Aryan,” as pureblooded Christian?”

    b. You go to the historian-like trouble of providing a documentary reference for Hitler’s definition of Aryan, but where is the documentation for the conclusion that “Hitler had execution of Jews in mind from the very start?”
    Does the U S Constitutional requirement that a person who seeks to become president of the United States prove, through birth records, for example, that he is indeed an American citizen warrant the conclusion that the U S Constitution, by seeking to eliminate non-Americans, “has in mind the execution of non-Americans from the very start?”
    No, of course not; that is ludicrous.

    c. Moreover, your critique, and most of the comments, and indeed Irving’s “Hitler’s War” all fail to record or fully consider for its implications, in general, the dominant role of zionism in the European wars of the 20th century; and specifically, Louis Brandeis’s directive to Rabbi Stephen Wise of ~Feb. 14, 1933, that “all Jews must leave Germany . . . all 587,000 German Jews must leave . . . no Jew should remain . . .”

    Mulegino’s comment @ #67 chronicles the holocaust narrative from a starting point in 1939:

    Once the alleged event is defined in factual terms, it is falsifiable. The core of the false narrative is this:
    During the period of 1939-1945, National Socialist Germany- . . .

    But Brandeis issued his directive, which Rabbi Wise, his son, James Waterman Wise published Swastika in May, 1933; Samuel Untermeyer (radio broadcast, Aug. 1933) and indeed “International Jewry” in collaboration [ Judea Declares War on Germany, . . . Jews of all the world unite . . . Mar. 23, 1933, hastened to execute: in speeches, publications, protest rallies, a Declaration of Economic War on Germany intended to destroy German exports upon which Germany's economy depended (i.e. the economic war was intended to be and was in fact an existential threat to the German people), all heaping on vilification of Hitler and the NSDAP with the goal of provoking such instability in Germany, and animus against Jews in Germany, that German Jews would leave their German homes and flee to Palestine, where their wealth was sorely needed; or to USA, whence zionism had removed its center of power.

    The two crucially important bits of information from the above are:
    First, Louis Brandeis, head of zionists world-wide, directed that Jews must leave Germany; and second, that directive and the provocative acts intended to implement the movement of Jews from Germany were issued and carried out beginning early in 1933, well before the alleged inception of a holocaust of Jews in 1939-1945.

    Escobar, @ #85, mentioned holocaust historian and Holodomor-denier Timothy Snyder. In a

    Snyder made this stunning observation:

    In history you can’t really say something happened in 1933 because something was going to happen in 1945. You can only explain things that happened in 1933 by events up to and including 1933. It’s very tempting to apply later events . . . but we can only understand historical events in terms of the causes that bring them about. [@ 20 min ]

    There was no holocaust in 1933.
    A holocaust of Jews could not have been the motive for Brandeis’s directive that Jews leave Germany, nor for the numerous provocations zionist Jewish leaders deployed to vilify and provoke the German government.
    (Jeffrey Herf has conceded that the opposite was the case: that Germany was justified in “persecuting” Jews, i.e. between 1933 and 1939, in retaliation for zionist-Jewish provocations. https://www.c-span.org/video/?192852-1/the-jewish-enemy-nazi-propaganda )

    If, as you claim, Eric Zuesse, by “the winter of ’33″ Hitler had instructed church leaders to sort out “Aryans,” who were by Hitler’s definition “Christians,” there is far more hard evidence to warrant that NSDAP was acting in cooperation and collaboration with zionist directives than there is to support an exercise in mind-reading that that activity indicated that Hitler . . . didn’t have [had] execution of the Jews in mind from the very start, or if he did, his mind was in complete synchrony with those of the leaders of zionism and International Jewry.

    Hitler did NOT start the war, zionist Jews started the war, for zionist purposes.

    • Agree: Cloak And Dagger
  137. Robjil says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    Amalek is a horrible concept popular with Old testament fanatics in Israel and with Israel firsters. Dehorah Lipstadt called Irving Amalek. After the return from Exodus, the Amalek tribe attacked the Israelites. Old testament fanatics still keep the concept of Amalek alive today. It allows Israelis to massacre of women and children in Palestine without guilt. Here Michael Hoffmann talks about Amalek and Deborah Lipstadt’s calling Irving Amalek.

    Here is Chabad’s viewpoint of Amalek:

    https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3942715/jewish/Who-Was-Amalek-and-the-Amalekites.htm

    o Wipe Out Amalek

    The mitzvah to destroy Amalek implies that no trace of Amalek’s existence could be left.10 “Nothing,” explain the sages, “could serve as a reminder of Amalek’s name—not even an animal about which it could be said, ‘This animal belonged to Amalek.’”11

    The first Jewish king, Saul, was commanded by the prophet Samuel to finally wipe out Amalek. Saul was victorious against the Amalekites, but spared the choicest of their flocks and the Amalekite king, Agag.

    When Samuel found out about Saul’s disobedience, Saul lost his right to kingship. Samuel then killed Agag himself.12

    However, before he was killed, Agag sired a child who would keep Amalek’s lineage alive. Some 500 years later, one of this child’s descendants was Haman the Agagite, of Purim fame.13

  138. @hyperbola

    What “hyperbola” says in #115 is a lie, and that’s not only because this very article (in its concluding paragraph, no less) condemns Daniel Goldhagen’s zionism, but because of the several articles that I have written about Israel, all of which are hostile toward it, as is explained, for example, in my “Why Does U.S. Gov’t. Donate $38B to an Enemy Nation?” (at http://washingtonsblog.com/2016/09/u-s-govt-donate-38b-enemy-nation.html and elsewhere), and in the many articles I’ve published about the Saud-Israel alliance, all explaining how tied-together both aristocracies are in controlling U.S. foreign policies. Though I am not anti-Jews (such as many of the readers here seem to be — and quite strongly!), I am very anti-Israel. And as to the accusations that are being made here that I am anti-Christian, I am no more anti-Christian than I am anti-Jew, though the readers who are commenting here seem to be extremely pro-Christian and extremely anti-Jew. All such tribalisms are equally, and extremely, destructive.

    • Replies: @Wally
  139. @Eric Zuesse

    Anecdotal evidence aside, I guess I am just missing the part about how you go from searching for and identifying Jewish blood to, without any evidence at all, and with plenty of evidence to the contrary, the foregone conclusion that cleansing and genocide were the (only) goal from the very start. As opposed to removal and relocation.

    “‘Bad blood’ was the great term. You had to have Aryan blood.” Hitler, in only his private statements, had defined “Aryan,” as pureblooded Christian. Bethge’s interviewer inquired, “So we know this Jewish poison [Jewish blood] had to be cleansed. How did they propose to do that?

    Well? I see no evidence. Just the heavy insinuations that people without evidence often try to pass off as a valid substitute. It’s not. There’s no small supply of anecdotal evidence against the genocide narrative, from Jews, as well. Just take a glimpse at all the interviews Spielberg nixed from his Holohoax documentary for not being in line with his false narrative, despite coming from actual Jews in the camps.

    And yet even today, so-called “historians” say that Hitler didn’t have execution of the Jews in mind from the very star

    What do you mean “and yet” or “so-called” . You mean: “And yet, despite the empty insinuations and insistence that absence of proof is not proof of absence, some so-called “historians” are still doing their actual job and not revising history based on baseless insinuations or otherwise unsubstantiated and, in many cases, even outright refutable claims?

    Pointing out what everyone knows, that he was looking for Jews, and then connecting that to slaughtering them all with intent, using nothing more than insinuation and anecdotally reinforced assurances.. is NOT sound reasoning.

    Christianity’s role is ignored.

    Maybe Christianity did play a bigger role. It’s still the role it was supposed to play, is it not? Protecting civilization from destructive influences. There are some reasonably sound arguments out there that suggest Christianity was created specifically as a weapon against Jews and their religion of subversion and supremacy.

    In either event, the involvement of Christianity in the affairs of Germany in the WWII period here is no different than Christianity’s involvement in the Crusades. Just another example of Christianity stepping up and serving it’s purpose as a shield, as a bulwark (albeit with mixed success). Be it against the flailing sword of Islam, or the cloaked dagger of Judaism.

    If anything, it’s a shame that dagger’s poison has been so effective at corroding the West’s bulwark ever since WWII.

    • Replies: @nickels
    , @Cloak And Dagger
  140. escobar says:

    Just a couple of additional suggestions for reading:

    1. “The German Army and Genocide: Crimes against War Prisoners, Jews and Other Civilians in the East, 1939-1944,” 1999, by the Hamburg Institute for Social Research, Transl. from the German

    2. Books by Christopher Browning, especially “Ordinary Men”

    3. Books by Timothy Snyder. especially “Bloodlands,” chronicling the killing of 14 million civilians in the East by Stalin and Hitler

    Full of sources and interviews and photographs…Snyder learned the languages of the area (Ukraine etc) and interviewed extensively in the area.

  141. j2 says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    In Sannings numbers very many Jews immigrated from Poland. I think they immigrated from East Poland or further east from Poland, like from the Soviet Union. There was 100,00 yearly immigration through Poland to France and from there forward, and in my opinion 1 million ended up in the USA. Many stayed in France and the high French Jewish population in 1939 was largely immigrants from the east.

    Why I think Sanning maybe overestimates the immigration from Poland is that I count that what is left to Auschwitz when I subtract known losses and concentration camp survivors is 400,000. Then there were 100,000 Polish Jews, who came to DP camps after 1946, so remains to explain 300,000. Probably 60,000 died in Auschwitz, 50,000 Jews died in the attack and following terror by Germans (or were taken to camps, Poles count that 500,0oo Poles died, 50,000 is 10% like the Jews were), This leaves 190,000. I cannot reduce the population of West Poland more than 190,000 (i.e., whole Poland more than 350,000) thus I cannot reduce the population of Poland in 1939 much below 3 million. But I can easily accept that the areas east of Poland had lost quite many Jews. I think Sanning is essentially correct, there was large immigration before 1939, only not so many from Western Poland.

    I used the Jewish figures for the Jewish populations and the official German+Polish figures for deaths in other than extermination camps, as they are quite sufficient for showing that 1-1.5M deaths in Auschwitz is impossible (and these numbers seem OK to me).

    For Treblinka, Sobibor, Belcez I estimate that each had about 50,000 deaths as there are mass graves and the size and number of the graves suggest the figure 50,000, not 500,000. Thus, 1.3M passed these camps to the east and what happened to them is anybody’s guess. At least some 270,00 survived according to a calculation of how many came to the DP camps from the east after 1946.

    But of course, I do not deny the Holocaust and 6M. Miracles happen still today.

  142. In 1939, there were 9.5 million Jews in Europe; in 1945 there were 3.8 million. 5.7 million Jews vanished. Where did they go?

    So unless I can answer that, the answer is ‘death factories’?

    It’s like the creationists: if you can’t explain the Big Bang, the Bible must be true.

  143. @Anon

    One deficit in Irving’s “Hitler’s War” is the almost complete absence of discussion of the role of zionism/zionists in extending World War I and in starting and manipulating World War II.

    One of Irving’s two significant references to “zionists” occurs in a footnote, relative to Kristallnacht. The comment is not conclusive but suggestive:

    “Some writers now argue that the Nazis had fallen into a Zionist trap. The Haganah officials with whom Adolf Eichmann negotiated on his trip to Palestine in November 1937 had hinted that it would serve their interests if things were made hot for Germany’s Jews, to accelerate Jewish emigration to Palestine. It deserves comment that Grynszpan, although a destitute youth, was able to reside in a hotel in 1938 and purchase a handgun for 250 francs, and that his defense counsel Moro Giafferi was the best that the money of the International League against Anti-Semitism (LICA) could buy; LICA’s Paris office was around the corner from Grynszpan’s hotel.” fn, p. 142

    We know from Francis Nicosia’s “Zionism and Antisemitism in Nazi Germany” that Haganah had created and dispatched to European cities, including in Germany, Mossad el-Aliyeh Bet, zionist agents whose task was to assist German Jews in leaving Germany, breaking the British blockade and settling in Palestine. Mossad el-Aliyeh functioned in full view, and often in cooperation with, Gestapo; Nicosia notes that one Mossad headquarters was across the street from a Gestapo office.
    It’s not a stretch to conjecture that Mossad played some role in inciting the rioting that followed the provocation of Grynszpan’s assassination of vom Roth.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Anon
  144. j2 says:
    @j2

    “because it is known that Nazis captured from Western Europe about 1.82 million Jews and the rest stayed.” Sorry again, the figure is not 1.82M, it is 1.2M. So, 1.2M+1.8M+0.06M=3.06M is the number of Jews that might have been transported to Auschwitz. Subtract who dies elsewhere or did not die gives the upper bound for Auschwitz deaths.

  145. @peterAUS

    That “thing” might have been unique to Hitler; my investigation focused only on reading everything that was written by or reliably transcribed from Hitler; but Himmler etc., I read only incidentally to that task, of finding out how Hitler’s thinking evolved over time, and what was in it, especially his private notes to himself, which was where he had no intention of persuading or deceiving anyone, because these were to himself, while he was struggling to understand what was happening to him. Also, immersing myself in him, and in the world about him and his interactions with it (the stuff from secondary sources), I was stunned to see that he really did know the Bible almost by heart. Even his Mein Kampf is loaded with paraphrases from it, and his private notes were “the Jews” versus “the Aryans” and he was trying to understand “original sin” which is in Genesis 3, where he interpreted the snake as being Satan and (in accord with passages such as John 8:44 and Matthew 23:33-38) concluded that “original sin” came from “the Jew” and could be overcome only by eliminating them all. Hitler repeatedly indicated that he must keep secret his understanding of the world, in order to be able to achieve what he wanted. So, there were things he didn’t tell to anyone. My goal was to get into his world-view, to understand it. He was deeply affected by the Bible — both the New and the Old Testaments. He was struggling to understand it, as he called it in only his private notes: “The Bible — Monumental History of Mankind.” He read Revelation 20:1-7 and was inspired by it to eliminate all Jews for the Thousand-Year Reich” to start.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @j2
  146. @kikl

    To exterminate whom? Which individuals, This plowing through church-archives was in 1933-34, long before the Nuremberg Laws, which required this information. Of course, nobody except Hitler himself knew then what use he would make of this information. He was very secretive, even to Himmler, Goebbels, Bormann, etc., everything on only a need-to-know basis, so that only he knew what was going to be happening next. He was an extremely gifted leader; he had that natural gift. He understood how to achieve what he wanted. HE WAS NO ‘WEAK LEADER’.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  147. nickels says:
    @RealAmericanValuesCirca1776Not1965

    It is inevitable that Christianity should play a role in the jew’s conceptualization of his race’s imaginary crucifixion upon the German’s sword. This is a matter of simple projection: the jew’s very identity is the rejection of Christ, the rejection of Logos. Not race, not religion, not culture or anything else.
    Their slander against the Germans is not personal, unlike the hatred for Christian Russia-Germany was merely chosen as a sacrifice necessary to bring about the myth of the birthing of the jewish messiah, i.e. the jewish people, via the holocaust.
    Zuesse is at least honest in his lies. He goes straight to the heart of the matter and lays out the choice for everyone to make:
    Either the evil Christ of the Christians, with their foot soldier Hitler, or the brilliant messianic jewish people with their supreme wisdom and everlasting goodness in bringing about a world of gayness, usury, communism and transgenderism, i.e a world that is healed, tikkun Olam.

    And he is right. That is the choice.
    Except that we know Christ is the true messiah and that the jewish alternative is the antichrist and death.

    Pray for him.

    • Replies: @Felix-Culpa
  148. @ThereisaGod

    Question:Why do we allow the Jewish leadership to turn “their” collective suffering into a world religion (which it now is .. with any heresy or blasphemy against the sacred doctrine punished by career termination or even imprisonment) on the basis of the biggest lie in human history?

    Interesting question indeed.

  149. Paul C. says:
    @Anonymous

    Are you familiar with the Transfer Agreement? It was a WW2 zionist plan to get European jews to move to Palestine so Israel could be created. Are you familiar with the Balfour Declaration? It was a zionist plan hatched in WW1 to create Israel from Palestine, which occurred at the end of WW2. A byproduct of this event is that America would be dragged into WW1, via the usual false flag event (Lusitania).

    Why did Int’l Jewry declare war on Germany in 1933? Can you provide evidence of Hitler wanting to exterminate?

  150. renfro says:

    The JTA contains a treasure trove of reports that show how US Jews agitated the Nazis to take steps to suppress the jews.
    WWII wasnt about the Jews… but the Jews tried to make it about the Jews.
    You will never hear a Jew discuss or write about WWII except as the war to exterminate the Jews.

    http://www.jta.org/1933/03/07/archive/declares-germans-justified-in-stemming-jewish-influence
    Berlin (Mar. 6) 1933
    Considerable comment has been aroused here by the publication of a statement in the “Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung”, the organ of von Papen, over the signature of Max Naumann, leader of the National German Jewish Union, which is the most extreme body of Jewish assimilationists in Germany.
    Max Naumann declares that the desire manifested among Germans to stem Jewish influence is justified. He adds that German Jewish emancipation had assumed in 1918 a further growth which had been “exploited by improper elements, and the justified repulse had now unfortunately hit also the better elements among German Jews.”
    Berlin (Mar. 6)
    “If Jews remain loyal, they may pursue their business without fear,” is the statement reported to have been made by Minister Goering to a special correspondent of the “Svenska Dagbladet,” one of the most important newspapers in Sweden. The correspondent further reports that Goering added that Germany would not, however, allow Jews to conduct the business of the country.

    Berlin (Mar. 27)
    The most responsible Jewish quarters in Germany, including the Zionist Federation, the Central Union of the German Citizens of the Jewish Faith, the League of German Jewish Veterans and the Society of National German Jews have joined, through the Jewish Telegraphic Agency here, in an appeal to the American Jews to abandon today’s demonstrations against alleged atrocities in Germany.
    The German Jews disapprove the anti-German propaganda which has manifested itself throughout the world and express the hope that the German people will soon gain an appreciation of loyal German Jewry. They appeal that no resolutions harmful to the German people should be adopted.
    Apart from the appeal of the above organizations a number of German rabbis have sent a protest to Bishop Manning, one of the speakers at Madison Square Garden, protesting against what they describe as “exaggerated reports of Jewish atrocities”. It is understood, also, that the German Zionist Federation have addressed themselves to Bishop Manning reiterating their protest against untrue tales of cruelty and against “those Jews who are attempting to misuse the Jewish question in the political interests of other countries.”
    They demand that the question of the protection of Jewish rights should not be linked with the political actions against Germany.
    The J.T.A. here is further informed that Mr. Ernest Wallach, Vice-President of the Union of German Citizens of the Jewish Faith, who is at present on a stay in the United States for business purposes, has addressed the following telegram to the Governor of the State of New York, Herbert H. Lehman, the Honorable Alfred E. Smith, the Right Reverend William T. Manning, Bishop of New York; Bishop Francis J. McConnell, Rabbi Stephen S. Wise, Admiral Richard Byrd, Mr. Bernard S. Deutsch and other speakers at the meeting planned for last night in the Madison Square Garden of New York:
    “The undersigned Vice-president of the Central Association of German Citizens of Jewish Faith, has just received the following cable from the President of the Association, Dr. Julius Brodnitz in Berlin: ‘We earnestly urge you to do all in your power in order that Monday’s Mass Meeting be called off, or if such should, against our sincere hopes not prove possible, to prevail upon the speakers of the evening to refrain from stirring the emotions of their audience against Germany. We can assure them that the German Government is permanently and successfully engaged in assuring Peace and Order to all citizens without discrimination’.”
    In an accompanying letter Mr. Wallach says:
    “In conveying the contents of this telegram to you, as one of the principal speakers of tomorrow’s event, I beg to identify myself with the appeal therein voiced by the elected representation of Germany’s Jewish population and to earnestly bespeak you to aid us in preventing any action which is liable to encroach upon the prestige of our country and thereby seriously affect our most vital interests.”
    Menu JTA

    Goebbels Offers Reward for Name of Single Jew Killed in Nazi Revolution
    Download PDF for this date
    March 28, 1933

    London (Mar. 27)
    In an exclusive article, covering the whole of the front page of yesterday’s “Sunday Express,” Goebbels denies the Jewish atrocities and offers a reward for the name of a single Jew whose death can be laid to the Nazi revolution.
    Of the anti-Semitic movement in Germany, he says it is caused by the fact that German laws, though a small percentage of the general population, hold an enormously large number of influential public posts. Moreover, he charges a large number of Jews being involved in corruption scandals which he alleges have exasperated the German population. Nevertheless, he declares that Jews are allowed to conduct their private business and practise their religion freely, and that no hair of anyone’s head would be touched.
    The German authorities, says Goebbels, have the power to guarantee complete and absolute security to all observing the laws of the German people. The German people, he added, had other business than that of Jew-baiting.

    March 28, 1933

    A statement by Dr. Ernest Hanfstaengel, chief of the foreign press section of the Nazi party, reported by the United Press, confirms almost in every detail the reports of the systematic boycott and drive against Jews in German businesses and professions.
    Asked for the cause of the wave of anti-Semitism in Germany, Dr. Hanfstaengl said:
    “In the last fourteen years Jewry has achieved positions of influence which it has grossly misused morally, financially and politically in an unheard of manner, with the result that the German people crumbled morally, financially and politically.
    “The same Jewry now is seeking to smirch Germany’s renaissance.”
    Dr. Hanfstaengl went on to say, says the correspondent of the United Press, that the ousting of Jews in Germany from influential positions will continue “until the house is cleansed”.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  151. Dr. Doom says:

    One of the things now being noticed around the World is how the English and Americans that saved these Jews are now being called Nazis. I’m no big fan of the Bohemian Corporal, but the Jew is hardly a victim. The worst genocides can be traced to their Synagogue. The Armenian Genocide, The Holodomor, the Mao Purges, The Pol Pot Regime and others.
    These puny Jews and their tall tales of “persecution”. Let me tell you sport, you don’t scare me much. You have NO FRIENDS anymore. Being a friend to you is OBVIOUSLY FAR WORSE than being a Deadly Enemy. Farrakhan, the Ayatollah and others get far better press than Cucking “Judeo-Christians”. You had better watch your tongue wormtongue. Times have CHANGED.

  152. utu says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    [Hitler] believed himself to be carrying out the intention of Jesus regarding the Jews

    However, after the Pope in 1937 made clear to him that the Pope’s moral authority was higher than was Hitler’s, Hitler changed his mind and concluded that the problem with Jews wasn’t necessarily that they had descended from the Snake in Genesis 3, but that their blood was infected with a bacterium, which must not be passed along (via intermarriage) to pure-blooded Christians.

    You are a kook. It is not ad hominem. Just keep talking. And this will become only more evident for anybody who might still consider you sane.

    BTW, paraphrasing is not a proof of ‘extraordinarily good memory.’ People with good memory can quote verbatim. The ‘paraphrases’ that you have discovered are only in your mind.

    • Agree: Mike P
    • Replies: @Eric Zuesse
  153. Good on Ron Unz for publishing a response to his article.

    The man is a real gentleman.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  154. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Eric Zuesse

    My non-sinister guess would be to determine and to update who has to pay the German church tax and to which religious group/community they have to pay it to:

    The church tax was reaffirmed in Article 13 of the Reichskonkordat[4] between Nazi Germany and the Vatican, where it is understood that the right of the Church to levy taxes is guaranteed. Taxpayers, whether Roman Catholic, Protestant or members of other tax-collecting communities, pay an amount equal to between 8% (in Bavaria and Baden-Württemberg) and 9% (in the rest of the country) of their income tax to the church or other community to which they belong.[5]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tax#Germany

    The Reichskonkordat (“Concordat between the Holy See and the German Reich”[1]) is a treaty negotiated between the Vatican and the emergent Nazi Germany. It was signed on 20 July 1933 by Cardinal Secretary of State Eugenio Pacelli, who later became Pope Pius XII, on behalf of Pope Pius XI and Vice Chancellor Franz von Papen on behalf of President Paul von Hindenburg and the German government. It was ratified September 10, 1933 and it has been in force from that date onward.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskonkordat

  155. Art says:

    “It seemed to me that the problem with his work was not the possible inaccuracy of the details that he included – but the things he had left out.

    Hmm – what is Mr. Zuesse leaving out of his history?

    How about the Jew bankers that funded both sides? Churchill had Jew bankers and Hitler had Jew bankers.

    What is the truly ugly history of Jew banking, past and present?

    How many white Europeans died because of Jew bankers – all too happy to fund war?

    That is the centuries old real history of Euro war! A chronicle of Euro blood spilled because of evil Jew money needs to be written.

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Maintain Hope, Love, Truth, & idealism — Art

    • Replies: @Momus
  156. Skeptikal says:
    @Curmudgeon

    “The trial transcripts are available online.”

    I don’t know of this trial.
    Do you have a link for the transcripts?

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  157. @quasi_verbatim

    Sorry, I believe you meant to say Common Era 2018.

  158. Florin N says:
    @Colin Wright

    So the best evidence is from a guy tortured by the allies after the war – this is supposed to be a serious reply to Irving?

    the author has not come close to doing so.

    I’m less skeptical of Hitler ordering extermination verbally than I am of 6 million – a
    mythic number for orthodox jews. Indeed that number is not at all well supported, while the sacred/mystical use if that number is in evidence for decades before the war.

    http://balder.org/judea/Six-Million-140-Occurrences-Of-The-Word-Holocaust-And-The-Number-6,000,000-Before-The-Nuremberg-Trials-Began.php

    To me, what is important is not a conclusion but the freedom to DOUBT. In all history only this crime against Jews is a crime to doubt.

    Which gives one reason to doubt it.

    It is similar to the notion we must not criticize Jews or Judaism… the ‘sacred eternal victim’ is above it… even when conmitting war crimes.

  159. @Reg Cæsar

    ‘Progressive whites are the most backward people on the planet. They think that buggery can consummate a marriage. Even the naked Yanomami aren’t that stupid.’

    Excellent point, sir, quite right, nothing trifling there.

  160. utu says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    A curious case of Grynszpan. After occupation of France in 1940 Grynszpan ends up in German custody where he is kept. Germans do not take advantage of it. Soviets would have staged a show trial and gained PR. Apparently Germans did not have talents for it. They even acquitted several suspects in Reichstag Fire trial. This would have never happened in the USSR or the post 9/11 America.

    It was believed that eventually he was executed but it seems that Grynszpan survived the WWII while in NAZi custody.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/18/herschel-grynszpan-photo-mystery-jewish-assassin-kristallnacht-pogrom

    NB: The story of Grynszpan resurfaced in media relatively recently when Russian ambassador was murdered in Turkey insinuating that killing Russian ambassadors was kind of OK like killing the NAZI diplomat by Grynszpan.

  161. Skeptikal says:
    @Thomm

    “I always wondered why only half left.”

    The genuinely curious can solve this riddle fairly easily!
    And rid themselves of their 20-20 hindsight syndrome at the same time.
    Many memoirs have been written that describe the excrutiating decisions that relatively assimilated Jews in Germany and Austria faced–that is, business owners with extended families, etc. who really had a lot to lose and whose family members often were not on the same page about going or staying—and where to go to hunker down?
    Getting a ticket, getting a visa, getting a spouse out of Dachau—getting out of Germany and Austria required a lot of moxie, some money, somewhere to go, often, somd kind of official protection (say, from a friend who was in the Party and could fix something).
    The policy of the Third Reich was an evolving thing after 1933. the Final Solution wasn’t not the official policy until after the war started. It was always problematical and a source of internal conflict because the Reich also needed the Jews (and others) for slave labor to run the economy. Recall that it was the SS that ran the concentration/extermination/labor camps. Not the German government per se. The SS was a huge economic organization and there were a lot of internal contradictions concerning the three functions of the camps.
    Some smart, educated, assimilated Germans saw the writing on the wall, and if they had some foreign contacts who could help them arrange an exit visa, then an entry visa in another country, and maybe a way to transfer some funds, could fix something.
    However, many businessmen and others in the financial sector or owners of various types of businesses/companies were conflicted because they were German, and they felt that by leaving they would provide fuel for the “Jewish conspiracy” charges that Jews were trying to bring down the German economy.
    Another twist is that it was extremely difficult to get any money out of Germany. In the early thirties the Reich needed cash. In fact, one reason for getting Jews to emigrate was to seize their assets in return for permission to leave. Many Jewish wills just disappeared.
    Another thing: Some Gentiles who had married Jews thought that it would suffice to send the Mischling children out of Germany—if they could afford it. They themselves would stay. Many families were torn apart by such considerations.
    Etc. Etc. Etc.
    Speaking of 20-20 hindsight, it might be worthwhile to ask why more Americans don’t leave this country now. The quality of life is so much higher in many other countries. Soooooo?????? What gives?
    Oh, maybe it is not so easy to just pick up and start living in another country, esp. if one is past one’s twenties or thirties. How many here ever even managed to live outside the USA for any period of time? Or even possess a passport?
    20-20!!

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @peterAUS
  162. @kikl

    For example: Hitler in 1922 told a journalist Joseph Hell (I quote this on page 77, then discuss on pages 82-83 the context in which he said this in conversation, to impress the man, but not to publish it, just on background so that he could understand the Nazi Party), “Once I am in power, my first and foremost task will be the annihilation of the Jews. As soon as I have the power to do so, I will have gallows built in rows — as many as traffic allows. Then the Jews will be hanging indiscriminately, and they will remain hanging until they stink. … As soon as they have been untied, the next batch will be strung up, and so on, … until all Germany has been cleaned of Jews.” Little over a year later, Hitler wrote into Mein Kampf (1939, p. 946; 1943, p. 651) that the “elimination” of Jews must be “by the sword” and “bloody.”

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @FKA Max
    , @Caruthers
    , @utu
  163. @utu

    “The teachings of Christ have laid the foundations for the battle
    against Jews as the enemy of Mankind; the work that Christ began, I shall
    finish.”
    Adolf Hitler, speech to his followers, December 18, 1926

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @bjondo
  164. Skeptikal says:
    @Skeptikal

    And another thing not to forget:
    Germany after 1933 evolved quite quickly into a totalitarian state. That was the reason that many chose to leave, not because they foresaw the Final Solution (obviously, the word “Final” is a hint as to the role of this “solution” in the big picture). The Reich wanted to reeducate the politically wayward if they could, and forcibly expatriate the others. This continued well in 1937-38.

    Thus, people could collect Brownie points for denouncing others for various crimes, and of course Jews were particularly vulnerable to being denounced for something. If they had any assets, the denunciations could channel money to the state, or a local authority or party official, and also there was a trickle-down effect to the denouncers. And, some denouncers were actually youths who had been indoctrinated in various ways via the new Nazi youth groups (after Gleichschaltung that took place from 1933 to approximately 1935 and eliminated all traces of German civil society) and were “true believers” who swallowed the Aryan story. Not that different from the ISIS zealots.

    • Replies: @anon
  165. @Eric Zuesse

    This plowing through church-archives was in 1933-34, long before the Nuremberg Laws, which required this information.

    Yes, before Nuremberg laws, but AFTER Louis Brandeis’s directive that “all Jews must leave Germany . . . all 587,000 German Jews . . .”

    Rabbi Stephen Wise records that conversation w/ Brandeis in his autobiography, The Challenging Years; he notes that it took place “within a fortnight of the Fuhrer’s ascent to chancellorship” that is, by Feb. 14, 1933. It is significant that he stated a specific number of German Jews, since tens of thousands of Polish and Russian Jews had taken refuge in Germany to escape from turmoil in those places. Grynszpan and his family were just such Polish Jewish would-be refuge-seekers.

    German ambassador to USA Hans Luther explained that in addition to the over-representation of Jews in administrative posts, it was those alien, or non-German Jews that were especially troublesome in Germany in the Weimar years:

    [Luther] asserted that limitation of Jewish influence in Germany was being conducted with the greatest possible consideration toward the old native Jewish families who, he said; had proven themselves good Germans and indicated that it was directed against the Eastern European Jews who had overflooded the country since the War.

    https://www.jta.org/1933/05/26/archive/nazi-jewish-policies-political-not-religious-dr-luther-asserts

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @jilles dykstra
  166. Art says:

    Mr. Zuesse perpetuates the “six million lie” so his slimy cousins in Israel can do this.

    Palestinian teen shot by Israeli soldier: ‘My leg is gone’

    More than half of 15,000 total injuries in Gaza demos since March 30 are from explosive bullets, leading to amputation.

    by Maram Humaid
    14 Jun 2018

    “I took my slingshot with me,” Abdullah, a skinny boy of 13, told Al Jazeera. “A few people were in the area, and everything was calm.”

    “I went near the fence and starting throwing rocks,” he said, sitting in his wheelchair. “Then as I started to climb the fence, I saw an Israeli soldier hiding in the bushes.”

    Abdullah’s immediate reaction was to step down from the fence and run away, but before he could do that, the soldier shot him in the left thigh with an explosive bullet at close range.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/06/palestinian-teen-shot-israeli-soldier-leg-180612201751173.html

    Think Peace — Do No harm — Art

    • Replies: @Eric Zuesse
    , @Karl
  167. @Art

    How am I perpetuating “the ‘six million lie’” if it is that, which I don’t even know? I write about what I know about and can document with the most credible evidence that currently exists regarding the given matter. The number of Jews who were killed in the Holocaust isn’t something that I’ve ever written about. It’s not relevant to my book about the Holocaust. Furthermore, the ad-hominem comment about me, that I have “cousins” in Israel, also is false.

    • Replies: @Art
  168. @Momus

    Benthic Wally… flywheel of the denier/liar machine.

    You have been repeating this tiresome ad hominem attack on Wally ad nauseum, and yet you appear unable to refute any of his points or present credible data to do so. I think that gives him the victory in this debate, whether you accept that or not, and shows you in very poor light. I don’t know if you are getting paid to do this, but if you are, you have not been a particularly good return on any investment your employer may have made.

    When you are deep in a hole, stop digging.

    • Agree: Them Guys
    • LOL: renfro
  169. @RealAmericanValuesCirca1776Not1965

    or the cloaked dagger of Judaism

    I am glad you didn’t say “the cloak and dagger of judaism”!

  170. Robjil says:

    The H has been used as a tool to whack us over the head for decades in the west. One can’t investigate it or question it. In Europe, in many countries, one goes to jail for five years for the questioning the controlled viewpoint. In Jan. 2018, a Canadian citizen, Monika Schaefer, was dragged away to prison in Germany for making a video that questioned the controlled viewpoint of the H. She was just watching the trial of Slyvia Stolz, who is being jailed for being too good of a lawyer for Ernst Zundel. We are in a new Dark Ages. No one shouldn’t be jailed for questioning or investigating history.
    Victoria Nuland, an American Jew, revived a type of Nazism, Banderism from the WW2 era, to take over Ukraine for US interests. This action by her woke me up to question and investigate everything. We are constantly being told by our controlled MSM that Nazism was the worst thing ever for Jews and everyone. So why would a Jewish person revive it in the 21 century?

  171. anarchyst says:

    There is NOT ONE DOCUMENT outlining any extermination plan for jews or others. In fact, prominent Zionists collaborated with the German government and formulated plans at the highest level of the German government for the “transfer” of jews to what was then known as Palestine. Absolutely nothing about extermination.

    Official International Red Cross figures for all camp “deaths” total around 731,000–NOT “6 million”. In fact, population totals pre-WW2 and post-WW2 show an INCREASE in the jewish population in post-WW2 Europe immediately after the cessation of the war…

    If a country were hell-bent on genocide, WHY WOULD IT KEEP RECORDS?? WHY would it build “camps” hundreds (if not thousands) of miles away with sanitary facilities, housing, medical, recreational and other ancillary facilities? Would it not have been easier to just “eliminate” them without going through all of this trouble? Why would they expend massive effort on logistical movement utilizing their limited energy resources if the goal was extermination? Things do not “add up”…

    Something BIG “stinks” in this whole jewish “holocaust ™” deal. It is no secret that jewish Zionists made “deals” with the German government in order to make life “uncomfortable” for jewish Germans. In fact, it was jewish Zionist leaders who first proposed that all jews wear the “yellow Star of David” armband so that they could be easily identified. German jews considered themselves Germans first and had no desire to emigrate.

    The establishment of a “homeland” along with the 6,000,000 figure was a Zionist “dream” since the 1800s. Many periodicals of the day starting with the 1800s touted the “six-million” figure.

    What better way to encourage “emigration” to a foreign land than to make things difficult for the “cream of German society” (jews)?? The TRUTH about the so-called jewish “holocaust ™” is out . . .

    As cremation of ONE human body takes hours, the amount of time claimed by holocaust ™ promoters is a physical, scientific and statistical impossibility. Their claims also do not account for the “downtime” that crematoria require for maintenance, etc. In addition, there are no mass burial sites that are commensurate with the claims of “six-million” or even “one-million”. There is also a jewish prohibition on excavation of claimed possible burial sites. WHY?? Because THEY DO NOT EXIST. There is even a prohibition on the use of ground penetrating radar to search for burial sites. WHY?? If millions were gassed and cremated, the activities would have lasted well into the 1950s.

    The so-called jewish “holocaust ™” has been turned into a de-facto “religion” in which no deviation from orthodoxy is permitted. In fact, in most European countries, independent investigation into jewish “holocaust ™” truths is strictly forbidden under pain of fines and imprisonment. In the USA, things are not quite as bad, only job loss and personal and professional destruction at the hands of those of the “tribe” that FEAR the real truth of the jewish “holocaust ™” being exposed is evident. TRUTH CANNOT BE USED AS A DEFENSE OR ENTERED INTO EVIDENCE IN THE “KANGAROO COURTS” THAT PROSECUTE THOSE WHO DARE TO INVESTIGATE THIS HISTORICAL EVENT. A question for you “holocaust ™” promoters–why are there laws that criminalize the search for truth?? What are you afraid of??

    When the truth about this historical event comes out, it will change much of the world’s perception about those that are using this event as a “cash cow” that “keeps on giving”. . . “there’s NO business like “SHOAH business”. Zionist complicity in this event is carefully “covered up”.

    A good example of present-day censorship is the fate that awaits those that dare question “official” jewish “holocaust” orthodoxy. Most European countries have criminalized ANY line of thought that deviates from the “official” jewish “holocaust” story. WHY?? In fact, TRUTH is no defense when it comes to “all things holocaust ™”. Ask noted WW2 researcher David Irving, who was forced to recant TRUTH in order to avoid punishment.

    The latest “vicitms” of “holocaustianity ™” are Ursula Haverbeck and Monika Schaefer, both 80 plus-year-old grandmothers who have been prosecuted and sentenced to maximum-security prison in Germany for “incorrect thoughts”.

    If people only knew of the planning that took place (among those of the “chosen”) to engineer the jewish “holocaust”, there would be a pogrom of massive size. You see, the jewish “holocaust” was necessary in order to force the establishment of a jewish state. In this case, the ENDS justified the MEANS. There have been many “holocausts” of much greater misery throughout human history, yet the jewish “holocaust ™” is the only one that counts . . . It is interesting to note that the term “holocaust ™” to mean “mass extermination” was never used during or immediately after WW2, only coming to vogue in the 1960s, when it was noted that “guilt” could be assigned and reparations could be procured.

    Look at the “commercialization of the so-called jewish “holocaust ™” while the much larger communist (true) holocaust is conveniently forgotten. To assure a continuing supply of jewish “holocaust ™” “survivors”, jews are tattooing their ATM (oops, I mean “camp” numbers) on their children and grandchildren. In addition, jewish psychologists have come up with a new concept, and “disease”–”holocaust ™ “transference syndrome”. You see, children and grandchildren of jewish “holocaust ™” survivors are infected with this “disease” and should also be considered “holocaust ™” survivors, eligible for “holocaust ™” reparations. According to these jewish psychiatrists, even unrelated individuals can be “infected” with this “malady”.

    Since the Zionist jews declared war on Germany in 1933 (yes, 1933), the Germans had no choice but to complete the Zionist plan of marginalizing German jews (to say the least).. This fulfilled the Zionist plan of forcing German jews to emigrate to Palestine while making the world grant jews a “homeland”–Israel. It is interesting to note that the German boycott of jewish businesses lasted for one day, whil the jewish boycott (actually the jews’ declaration of war on Germany) started in 1933 and lasted until the summation of WW2.

    Zionists have been predicting a jewish “homeland” for the last two-hundred years while predicting a “holocaust ™” of 6 million for the same amount of time. The ACTUAL number of non-combatant deaths in the European theater of operations is approximately 731,000, NOT 6 million (official International Red Cross figures). The International Red Cross had full access to all of the camps for the duration of the war, yet reported NOT ONE INSTANCE of extermination or mass murder.

    Regarding that “holocaust ™” “showplace” Auschwitz, there are engineering inconsistencies in the design of the so-called “gas chambers”. The doors are not of a gas-tight design; it would have been impossible to retrieve the bodies, and there is no means to ventilate the rooms after the so-called “gassing” took place”. There is a “gas chamber” chimney that is not connected to anything. From an engineering standpoint, these are very serious errors that would have caused the deaths of the “operators” of these supposed “gas chambers”. As Germans were excellent engineers, it is difficult to observe the glaring engineering errors that presently exist in these “camps”.

    American execution expert, Fred Leuchter travelled to Auschwitz, surreptitiously obtained samples from the purported “gas chambers”, had them tested and published his results. The absence of Prussian blue (ferricyanide) in ALL of the samples, save one, was PROOF that the “gas chambers” did not exist. The one positive sample was taken from a room used to disinfect clothing. In fact, the “chimney” for the supposed “gas chamber” does not connect to anything.

    Mr. Leuchter’s was rewarded for his search for TRUTH by his professional and personal character assassination by those of the “tribe”. He lost all of his federal and state contracts, and was prosecuted under an obscure Massachusetts “law” for “practicing engineering without a license”–a law which had never been used vindictively before or since. . .After his report was published, he was harassed by Israeli “deep state” types (mossad) who he successfully “outed”.

    It is no secret that after WW2, the Soviets attempted to “create” the “death camps” for propaganda purposes. Yes, there was extreme deprivation and suffering–many people perished. The prime cause of death was typhus. As allied bombings destroyed most of the infrastructure, typhus was at epidemic levels. THIS is what caused the massive amounts of human deaths . . .NOT gassing.

    It is interesting to note that, before the camps were “liberated” by the “allies”, the camp occupants chose to flee with the German troops, rather than be “liberated” by the Russian “allies”.

    It is said that “the light of day is the best disinfectant in the search for truth” Unfortunately this quote does not apply to “all things holocaust ™”. It appears that there are those “holocaust ™” promoters who are afraid of the TRUTH. Hence the prosecution and incarceration of those who dare question aspects of this historical event.

    I urge all “holocaust ™” believers to check these things out for yourselves–IF YOU DARE. You will not like what you find…

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  172. Erebus says:
    @Anonymous

    Actually more likely to be seen as demeaning.

    Given how much the Holocaust scholars who bring nothing to the table are feted, one would think anyone who brought incontrovertible proof would see even better treatment.

    (Have you ever been cross-examined by a $1000s an hour top trial lawyer, in the witness box or when deposing?).

    No idea what the lawyers involved were earning, but I’ve been under cross-examination several times. No big deal if you have the facts. BTW, Douglas Christie, Zundel’s lawyer in the Toronto trial was (in)famous for taking on free speech cases, often doing so pro bono or for greatly reduced fees. He was certainly not being paid $1000/hr.

    In any case, Hilberg did not “perform badly”, and I doubt any Holocaust historian could have done better. Quite simply, he was compelled to state in open court that his 3+ decades of research into the Holocaust had turned up zero, a conclusion he had come to himself prior to the trial.

    Doesn’t the deportation of Jewish women, children and old people strike you as difficult to explain innocently?

    Was it so difficult that an entire ecosystem of lies had to be concocted to explain it? A rational person looks for a simpler explanation than a physically impossible process, run on an industrial scale by ESP. History is filled to overflowing with deportations and ethnic cleansings. If you’re looking for a recent case, the Nakba might come to mind.

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  173. Erebus says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    “all Jews must leave Germany . . . all 587,000 German Jews . . .”

    Some clever fellow quipped:
    “Of the 2.4M Jews under Nazi occupation, 3.8M claimed Holocaust reparations. Sadly, the remaining 6M were lost.”

    I don’t remember who that fellow was, but the Holocaust narrative’s numbers have never stacked up. What does stack up are the numbers from camp records and the Red Cross. They’re rarely mentioned, of course.

  174. @Wally

    That’s just lazy, Wally. Nowhere close to your best effort. What’s wrong?

    You are going to be dead soon and you still haven’t convinced a single person. Better get crackin’

    • Replies: @Wally
  175. Art says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    The number of Jews who were killed in the Holocaust isn’t something that I’ve ever written about. It’s not relevant to my book about the Holocaust. Furthermore, the ad-hominem comment about me, that I have “cousins” in Israel, also is false.

    The following assumes that you are among the 95% of US Jews who support Israel’s existence.

    I too do not know the number of Jews killed in WWII. It was too many – one was to many.

    But I do not believe in ovens, and lamp shades, and soap. I think Jews have lied.

    Collectively Jews used that lie to advantage in Palestine, with impunity shooting off 13 year-old boy’s legs.

    Rational good honest people assume you are responsible for this wrong doing.

    Get used to it!

    Think Peace — Do No harm — Art

    • Replies: @Eric Zuesse
  176. @anarchyst

    There is NOT ONE DOCUMENT outlining any extermination plan for jews or others.

    Duh.

    There’s no document for capitalism or economics or the Vietnam War either. Did they also not happen?

    But lack of any documentation is not really your point, is it? Since plenty of well-documented things like the moon-landing and 9/11 are denied by you as well.

    Try applying consistent reasoning to ideological issues and you won’t feel so crazy all the time.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
    , @Erebus
  177. Wally says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    Please provide the original German document for this claimed ‘translation’.

    You cannot. Your text is fraudulent.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Eric Zuesse
    , @Eric Zuesse
  178. Wally says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    Please show us the original German language Mein Kampf which says that.

    You cannot. Your text is fraudulent.

    No proof, no ‘holocaust’.

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  179. @Erebus

    A rational person looks for a simpler explanation than a physically impossible process, run on an industrial scale by ESP.

    You do not define rational.

    You imply that you are rational (whatever that is) without offering any evidence.

    Me? I’m not looking for an explanation for any of this anymore than I’m looking for an explanation for why it is raining.

    History taught children will not change as a result of this thread. Thank God.

  180. bjondo says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    At 166 and 167

    Apparently Adolph changed. The blood spilled by lice not gallows nor gas nor sword.

    If your quotes are true (I doubt such but anyway), seems AH changed his mind to moving Jew elsewhere.

    Hard to change Jew belief in FINAL SOLUTIONS. Brainwashed from pre womb unto death.

    • Replies: @Art
  181. Mulegino1 says:

    This greatest lie of all time depends upon a mountain of lies, outrageous exaggerations and monstrous judicial injustices and the persecution of dissent from the false narrative. The so called factual foundations of the Holocaust legend are, as with any false narrative, almost entirely Procrustean in nature, i.e., they are made to fit around the fixed “6 million” number, which, of course, has been proven impossible.

    We know for a fact that even the downward revision of 4 million to 1.2 million victims at Auschwitz-Birkenau is a gross exaggeration, and that both the authentic camp records as well as the physical evidence indicate that no more than a little over 100,000 (of all races, religions and nationalities- and of all causes) could have died there due to the impossibility, from a technical and logistical perspective, of the testimonies of the so called “eyewitnesses.”

    We know for a fact that there are no mass graves and no massive outdoor cremations at Treblinka II, and that 800,000 Jews were not killed there with the ridiculous extermination by gassing with non-lethal diesel exhaust. (Of course now it is claimed to have been internal combustion exhaust, since those who crafted the legend had no eye for such details.) There is almost literally nothing at the site of Treblinka II but cenotaphs and claims of scattered ashes- nothing like what would be found at a real “industrial scale mass murder” site.

    Ditto for Sobibor, Majdanek and the rest of the so called “extermination camps.”

    Remember when it was all about Bergen Belsen and Dachau? Funny how, over the years, the “extermination legend” migrated eastward behind the Iron Curtain.

    Remember how it was Jews thrown into ovens and Jewish babies supposedly dumped into burning pits? Then it became “death by gassing in “fake’” showers. Then it became a “Holocaust by bullets” on the Eastern Front.

    The “Holocaust” legend cannot be falsified because it refuses to submit to empirical exaggeration and cloaks itself in the mantle of pseudo-religious and pseud0-mystical language. Once it is reduced to merely factual and empirical level, it crumbles.

    There was never any plan by Hitler, Himmler, the National Socialist state or the German people to murder all of the Jews of Europe. The issue was to remove the Jews from Germany through emigration and, if necessary, by forceful resettlement, which is why the Madagascar Plan was envisioned. Once the war started, the plan had to be modified to suit the needs of Germany at war with most of the industrialized nations of the earth, so many Jews were conscripted for labor and interned, just like American citizens of Japanese descent. The United States hinterlands were not seriously affected at all by the war, but Germany was literally destroyed by it. It is quite logical to suppose that those interned in the camps were also victims of war, in particular the Allied bombing offensives. How many alleged “victims of the evil Germans” were actually killed by the Allied air offensive or the Red Army?

    The Luther Memorandum from the German Foreign Ministry of August, 1942 stated unambiguously, inter alia: “…after the war, the Jews will have to leave Europe. This is the unalterable decision of the Fuehrer…” If the Jews would have to leave Europe after the war, then it is clear that there was no program of industrial scale mass murder being applied to them.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  182. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Eric Zuesse

    With this very thing in mind I scanned the revolutionary events of history and put the question to myself against which racial element in Germany can I unleash my propaganda of hate with the greatest prospects of success? I had to find the right kind of victim, and especially one against whom the struggle would make sense, materially speaking. I can assure you that I examined every possible and thinkable solution to this problem, and, weighing every imaginable factor, I came to the conclusion that a campaign against the Jews would be as popular as it would be successful.[4]

    Thus, according to this, Hitler allegedly confessed that his anti-Semitism was mostly faked and simply a propaganda method used in order to gain power, which is an unusual view and seldom mentioned by those who selectively quote only the first quote as alleged evidence of Hitler’s early, murderously intended anti-Semitism.

    Also less often mentioned is that Josef Hell wrote down the alleged quote in its present form only in 1945, more than twenty years later.[5] It is thus not a text published long before the Holocaust but only after the occurrence of widespread Allied atrocity propaganda. Even if assuming no deliberate fabrication by Josef Hell, he is arguably an unreliable source considering the unreliable and easily influenced human memory.

    Furthermore, Josef Hell was a journalist who worked with Fritz Gerlich, a major opponent of Hitler and the editor of the anti-National Socialist newspaper Der Gerade Weg. Gerlich was arrested and later killed during the Night of the Long Knives. Josef Hell was thus no impartial witness and may have fabricated the quote or parts of it.

    https://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Alleged_statements_by_Hitler_on_the_Holocaust#Josef_Hell_interview Archived link: http://archive.is/qHa5F

    Also this:

    Hitler’s Table Talk, October 1941

    “From the rostrum of the Reichstag, I prophesied to Jewry that, in the event of war’s proving inevitable, the Jew would disappear from Europe. That race of criminals has on its conscience the two million dead of the First World War, and now already hundreds and thousands more. Let nobody tell me that all the same we can’t park them in the marshy parts of Russia! Who’s worrying about our troops? It’s not a bad idea, by the way, that public rumor attributes to us a plan to exterminate the Jews. Terror is a salutary thing.” (quoted in John Toland, Adolf Hitler. London: Book Club Associates, 1977, p.702-3)

    https://phdn.org/archives/www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/statements.htm

    I personally interpret this statement as implying that there is no intention to physically exterminate Jews (or only to a very limited extent), but, by way of rumor, to terrorize them (not a good and kind thing to subject someone to either, of course) and to strike fear and terror into their hearts and souls through this “public rumor”, and thus to encourage Jews to “self-deport”, see a similar principle/strategy applied in “Operation Wetback”

    This included many illegal immigrants who fled to Mexico fearing arrest; over half a million from Texas alone.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback#Implementation_and_tactics

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  183. anon[107] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    It happened. In 1939, there were 9.5 million Jews in Europe; in 1945 there were 3.8 million. 5.7 million Jews vanished. Where did they go?

    5.7 million Jews had Jewish mothers-in-law.

    What would you do if you had a Jewish mil and a situation of chaos enabling you to disappear & start a new life — no alimony, no child support, no lawyers, therapists, rabbis haranguing you — you’re 18 again and the world is your oyster K

  184. anon[107] • Disclaimer says:
    @Skeptikal

    Are you making this up as you go along or is it based on evidence? If the latter, put it on the table

  185. Karl says:
    @Myname

    55 Myname > It also doesn’t make sense for the Germans to waste energy in transportation of Jews

    you’re correct – but the decision was made by the same people who felt that invading Russia was sensible

    • Replies: @L.K
    , @Wizard of Oz
  186. Wally says:
    @Johnny Rico

    Your dodged my point, which was:

    No sources, just a Zionist talking. Which generally means lying.

    So where are the sources?

    http://www.codoh.com

  187. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    Censuses are done every 10 years. So there would have been no censuses done in 1945 especially as the allies had invaded the continent, the Russians on their way to Germany and the worst fighting was going on.

    If you’re citing a Jewish source, it’s most probably a lie.

  188. Anonymous[255] • Disclaimer says:

    The leading Jewish American groups and Israel have always been complicit with Turkey in denying the Armenian Genocide committed by Turkey and defeating Armenian Genocide resolutions in Congress.

    The author does not mention any of this. I wonder what he thinks.

    • Replies: @Karl
  189. Wally says:
    @Momus

    Here are real documents, real history for panicked Momus, everyone else read the entire post below and learn:
    “Mr Reich Minister Lammers informed me that the Führer had repeatedly declared to him that he wants to hear that the Solution of the Jewish Problem has been postponed until after the war is over. That being so, the current discussions are of purely theoretical value, in Mr Reich Minister Lammers’ opinion. He will moreover take pains to ensure that, whatever else happens, no fundamental decisions are taken without his knowledge in consequence of a surprise briefing by any third party.”

    Document’s origins. Schlegelberger’s undated minute on Lammer’s reference to Hitler’s ruling is in German Federal Archives (BA) file R.22/52. It was sent to Staatssekretär Freisler and two other officials (bottom left). This document has been published in facsimile in David Irving’s books Hitler’s War, Goebbels. Mastermind of the Third Reich, and Nuremberg, the Last Battle. It was definitely dated March or April 1942. Lammers was in Berlin on April 26, 1942. See Scheel’s report on a talk between Lammers and Meissner after the final session that day (T175/139/7479 et seq.)
    in support of the Schlegelberger Document see the Luther Memorandum:

    http://www.codoh.com/library/document/154/

    Hitler, the ‘Final Solution,’ and the Luther Memorandum
    A Response to Evans and Longerich
    excerpt:
    “On the occasion of a reception by the Reich Foreign Minister on 26 November 1941 the Bulgarian Foreign Minister Popoff touched on the problem of according like treatment to the Jews of European nationalities and pointed out the difficulties that the Bulgarians had in the application of their Jewish laws to Jews of foreign nationality.”

    “The Reich Foreign Minister answered that he thought this question brought by Mr. Popoff not uninteresting. Even now he could say one thing to him, that at the end of the war all Jews would have to leave Europe. This was the unalterable decision of the Fuehrer and also the only way to master this problem, as only a global and comprehensive solution could be applied and individual measures would not help very much.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @kikl
  190. Karl says:
    @MrB

    90 MrB > The Palestinian holocaust is in full view of the world and cannot be doubted

    there are scores of UN bureaucrats making good salaries in Gaza, assisting the Palestinians to breed like rabbits.

    That’s no holocaust.

    The Rohingya would cut your head off to get as well taken care of as the people in Gaza are.

    PS: Gaza belongs to the Copts. It will someday be returned to them.

  191. Art says:
    @bjondo

    Hard to change Jew belief in FINAL SOLUTIONS. Brainwashed from pre womb unto death.

    Tribal Jews are child abusers – they abuse their children!

    It is traumatic to young minds to hear that everyone wants to kill then, over and over and over. That is what little Jews hear from a very young age. It is clear that they can never recover. In time, they do the same thing to their children.

    This has been going on for thousands of years. That is the Jew culture.

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Art

    • Replies: @Wally
  192. @Art

    This is in response to “Art”s assumption that I am “among the 95% of US Jews who support Israel’s existence” — and that’s two false assumptions about me, not merely one.

    In http://washingtonsblog.com/2015/05/opinion-is-israel-americas-friend-or-americas-enemy.html
    I said: “Netanyahu has proven by actions, not mere words, that Israel is America’s enemy, refusing to do even what Israel had signed an American-sponsored accord in 1978 promising to do — and, now, at last, installing a government that is deeply committed to never complying with it.” How much more clearly could any American author express condemnation of Israel? I also said there: “The very idea of dual-citizenship, especially for a government official, is repugnant in any real democracy. Certainly, there ought to be a requirement for all individuals who are employed by the U.S. Government or by any U.S. Government contractor, to publicly renounce any other citizenship before being hired. That’s just basic. But, in any case, now that we know that Israel is an outright enemy of the United States, the public should be demanding the U.S. President and Congress to side with the Palestinians against Israel.”

    In http://washingtonsblog.com/2016/09/u-s-govt-donate-38b-enemy-nation.html
    I noted that “On 8 June 1967, Israel intentionally attacked and sank the USS Liberty, slaughtering 34 of our sailors, and injuring another 172.” I documented the official cover-up.

    To judge from the responses to the present article, most of the commenters here aren’t anti-Israelis (as I am, because it’s an apartheid regime run by Jewish nazis some of whom are even blatant about their nazism, their racist fascism) but they are anti-Jews, simply bigots (like those Israelis are, but against different targets). Almost all of the reader-comments here are blatantly irrelevant to my article — the evidence and argument — that they’re pretending to be commenting upon. Irrelevant, and that’s shocking, but that’s most of them. That is simply pathetic. I didn’t expect it.

    • Replies: @Art
    , @Wizard of Oz
  193. Skeptikal says:
    @anon

    Making up what?
    Gleichschaltung?
    Totalitarian?
    SS was in charge of the concentration camps?

    You sound very ignorant and very silly.

  194. Karl says:
    @Art

    170 Art > “I took my slingshot with me,”

    the kid was not hunting for food

    who will Art applaud next – Salvadoran gang members who climb the border fence in Texas?

    • Replies: @Art
  195. L.K says:

    Absolute garbage this article.

    For people who are well informed, the piece is actually utterly cringeworthy.
    Even professional holohoax “historians” would be embarassad..

    But then again, no surprises there; this Eric Zuesse individual had the nerve to tell us in the comment section under another article, that in order to disabuse ourselves from Irving and evil “deniers”, we should watch the 2016 movie Denial, based on Deborah Lipstadt’s book, a useless Zionist charlatan! A movie!!!

    What a clown this guy is!

    Not to mention that he writes that 9/11 really was an inside job, but a Bush/Cheney/Saudi op, Israel had nothing to do with it!

    Eric Zuesse == Disinformation agent, controlled opposition, charlatan.

    • Replies: @Them Guys
  196. Thomm says:
    @RealAmericanValuesCirca1776Not1965

    That is a lot of words in which to say nothing.

    Remember that you are an example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. That is why you will never come to terms with the fact that you are not part of the functional white race, but rather a member of the defective subrace where genetic waste matter is quarantined off. The men of this race become WN wiggers like you, and the women become fat bluehaired feminists.

    Odds are overwhelming that you are black, that you feel inferior about yourself and your own race, and that those feelings have manifested as envious hatred towards the whites you come here to vent at

    Thanks for proving that you have the reading comprehension expected of a 70-IQ wigger such as yourself. I endlessly praise the other 80% of whites (my group), while aiming to make sure that the defective group (you) can’t mooch off of us.

    White Trashionalism is just an appeal for intra-white socialism. You want to mooch off of successful whites like me because of your own total failure at all levels. Not a chance.

    Get off my lawn, faggot!

    • Replies: @Josecanuc
  197. Wally says:
    @Art

    “I owe my permission to submit the Zionist plan for the final solution of the Jewish Question.”

    - ‘Father of political Zionism’ Theodor Herzl, letter to the Czar, November 22, 1899.

  198. Skeptikal says:
    @anon

    Here is a good article on the SS and the economic function of the concentration camps:

    https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007399

    Of course, Jews and others were killed outside of concentration camps.
    Many of them by Einsatzgruppen.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @Them Guys
  199. Mulegino1 says:
    @Mulegino1

    That should read: “empirical examination…”

  200. Skeptikal says:
    @anon

    Here is an article that explains the evolution of “solutions” to the Jewish question and the phase during which Jews were incarcerated in camps with the aim of getting them to emigrate (and leave their assets behind), which I referenced and which I have read about in a number of memoirs.

    https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007403

    Not to mention that I know of some of these issues from my own family history.
    HTH, Ignoramus Anon.
    No, go out and educate your own little self.

  201. Karl says:
    @Anonymous

    193 Anonymous[255] > The leading Jewish American groups and Israel have always been complicit with Turkey in denying the Armenian Genocide committed by Turkey

    there’s no denial. There are decisions to not run one’s mouth

  202. @Wally

    I translated these from the German in the German National Library’s official publication. I might still have somewhere the original German version, but not ready-at-hand now. Where reliable English translations existed, I cited the source as in that English source, but some were speeches etc. that aren’t in any of the English-language-translated collections.

    • Replies: @Wally
  203. L.K says:
    @Karl

    Your statement reveals your complete ignorance of the subject.

    In view of the actual facts, as opposed to cheap war propaganda, the decision of the National Socialist regime to attack the Soviet Union was indeed, sensible.
    Many historians, including many Russians, have reached that conclusion.

    http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-when-stalin-almost-conquered-europe/

    Under the comments, my post #527, discusses the motives that led to Operation Barbarossa, more or less in chronological order.

  204. @anonymous

    “were they transported to “death camps” and killed in gas chambers?”

    Sorry, but if some of it is a lie then all of it is a lie. Were there some truth to your statement there would be no need for embellishment with stories of lampshades and soap made from victims.

    • Replies: @ANON
  205. Wally says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    Zuesse wrote:

    Hitler in his Secret Conversations (Table-Talk) addressed Himmler sarcastically about the matter, Himmler understood very well what he meant by saying of his policy toward the Jews, “I’m extraordinarily humane. … But if they refuse to leave voluntarily, I see no other solution than extermination.”

    Except Hitler never said that.

    Zionist Zuesse steps on yet another landmine, highly recommended:

    Hitler’s “Table Talk”: A Study in Academic Fraud & Scandal
    by Veronica Clark

    https://www.inconvenienthistory.com/9/3/4880

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  206. L.K says:
    @ltravail

    ltravail says:

    This critique of David Irving’s work is more like the work of a journalistic mercenary than of an honestly objective intellect.

    Yep, It’s basically character assassination.

  207. Wally says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    Why should we believe you? A Zionist with an agenda.

    Can’t show the alleged documents? Then there were no such documents.

    Imagine in a real / legit court of law where someone claims that there are documents which assist their case, but then could not produce the claimed documents. They would be laughed out of that court.

    Rather like:

    The “Holocau$t Industry” in court:
    ‘Please your honor, there really are remains of millions buried in huge mass graves, we know where the mass graves are to this day, … but, but, well, umm, we can’t show the court the human remains. You must trust us, we’re Zionists.’

    http://www.codoh.com

  208. anarchyst says:
    @Johnny Rico

    refute anything I have stated…trouble is, you can’t. Stop drinking the holocaustianity ™ kool-aid and see the world as it is…

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  209. Caruthers says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    Hitler tells a journalist in my order to impress him and so he can understand Hitler’s aims, but he doesn’t tell his top lieutenans so they cs understand his aims and can thus better implement them?

    • LOL: utu
    • Replies: @utu
    , @Eric Zuesse
  210. utu says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    the “elimination” of Jews must be “by the sword” and “bloody.”

    Why you did not cite the exact sentence? There are many instances where “elimination” (15), “bloody” (22) and “by the sword” (3) are used in Mein Kampf in many different contexts but never together.

    First I thought your were just a kook but you are much worse. You are a dishonest manipulator with zero integrity. Nobody will touch any of your kooky books.

  211. tac says:

    A weak and pedestrian attempt at a rebuttal by a mediocre author, at best, who no doubtedly sprang into action when a ransom was offered by the equally shameless Holocau$$$t mediocrity of peddlers. A mere recital of nitpicking and past assertions that fall to the wayside…An epic display of mediocrity that was seemingly a salvo of flatulence aimless in the aftermath. Research takes hard work and dedication, none of which is even hinted at by this ‘showpiece’.

    Now to the subject matter by people whose lives have been ruined, at the mere temerity of attempting to question the ‘legend’ — in its lustre as ensconced in recent depictions:

    If you care to look at the so-called homicidal gas chambers stories we’ve been told dispassionately and with a logical and scientific approach then I would recommend starting off with Germar Rudolf’s refutation given here (especially paying close attention to the time frame from 11:00-42)

    Accounts with subtitles from Polish testimonials on the narratives we’ve been told):

    https://wolna-polska.pl/wiadomosci/why-jews-are-afraid-of-the-truth-historical-truth-by-ph-d-ewa-kurek-english-subtitles-2018-02

    “However, in late 2005, Rudolf—now a peace activist and publisher—was kidnapped by the U.S. government and deported to Germany to face charges of “holocaust denial.” There he was put on trial for his historical writings. During this trial his defense lawyers were prohibited under the threat of prosecution from filing motions in support of Rudolf’s historical views.
    All motions filed by Rudolf’s defense team directed at proving that his writings are scientific in nature and are therefore protected by the German constitution were rejected by the court. Academics willing to confirm as expert witnesses the scholarly nature of Rudolf’s writings were barred from testifying

    …He proved that his writings undoubtedly qualified. He demonstrated moreover why the German laws designed to suppress peaceful dissidents are unconstitutional and in violation of human rights. Furthermore he explained in detail why it is everyone’s obligation to resist in a non-violent way a state which throws peaceful dissidents into dungeons.”

    https://barnesreview.org/product/resistance-is-obligatory-address-to-the-mannheim-district-court-15-november-2006-to-29-january-2007/

    Shameful liar Simon Wiesenthal:

    https://barnesreview.org/simon-wiesenthal-lied-and-admitted-it-says-top-israeli-holocaust-historian/

    • Replies: @tac
    , @Wally
  212. Art says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    This is in response to “Art”s assumption that I am “among the 95% of US Jews who support Israel’s existence” — and that’s two false assumptions about me, not merely one.

    It appears that I have made a mistake about you and Israel. You are not responsible for the Palestinian boy’s lose of his leg.

    I am sorry – I apologize — please forgive me — Art

  213. tac says:
    @tac

    Germar Rudolf’s video did not post in my previous video with timeframe…so please refer to it here:

  214. Wally says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    said:
    “… that many Jews died from various German actions (mass shootings in the course of anti-partisan activity or deportations) in no way supports the claims of an extermination program, nor does it make credible the absurd eyewitness accounts of places like Treblinka.”

    The Fraudulent ‘holocau$t’ Industry now claims that ca. 2,000,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen into huge pits, so, anyone, please SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves, & remains that are claimed to exist, their locations are allegedly known.
    Is that:
    100 graves of 20,000?
    200 graves of 10,000?
    400 graves of 5,000?
    500 graves of 4,000?
    1000 graves of 2000?
    2000 graves of 1000?

    former Einsatzgruppen Members Reject Bizarre Claims of Mass Shootings / Babi Yar, etc.

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11396

    !! Excavation Result: No Enormous Human Remains as Alleged at Babi Yar !! … of
    course

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11314

    aerial of Babi Yar at exact time of alleged action:nothing happening

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Them Guys
  215. Wally says:
    @tac

    http://codoh.com/library/document/3276

    Gas Van Film and Photo Fraud
    German News Magazine and Simon Wiesenthal Center’s Museum Caught Faking Photo and Film Captions

    By Santiago Alvarez

    also see:
    Holocaust Handbooks, Documentaries, & Videos

    http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1


    http://www.codoh.com

  216. utu says:
    @Caruthers

    Top secret. Details in the newspapers.

  217. tac says:

    Examine some of these ‘photos’ introduced as evidence of the holocau$$$t:

    do they seem real or a collage of disparate pieces–pay especially close attention to the lighting in (east-west & north-south) hemispheres of the presented pieces of evidence–do they seem realistic in sense of photography (lighting, scale, shadows, proportion-in-size of all those’photographed’, body posture, landscape, curvature, distortions-of-human-body-form, surrounding contours both in human AND landscape ‘reality’?):

    http://www.heretical.com/walendy/p3steps.html

    http://www.heretical.com/walendy/fakes.html

  218. Wally says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    Zuesse, you are trying nothing that hasn’t been tried before, many, many times.

    Jews have been pushing the ’6,000,000′ lie since at least 1823:

    https://imgur.com/a/0LFFF

    and:
    http://balder.org/judea/New-York-Times-Six-Million-Jews-Since-1869.php

    Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable ‘holocaust’ is the message.
    “Truth is hate to those who hate the truth.”
    http://www.codoh.com

  219. Art says:
    @Karl

    170 Art > “I took my slingshot with me,”

    the kid was not hunting for food

    The 13 year-old boy had a slingshot — the Jew shot his leg off with a rifle with an explosive bullet.

    And YOU blame the boy — Shame shame!

    Think Peace — Do No harm — Maintain Hope, Love, Truth, & Idealism — Art

    • Replies: @Karl
  220. ‘…Just take a glimpse at all the interviews Spielberg nixed from his Holohoax documentary for not being in line with his false narrative, despite coming from actual Jews in the camps…’

    It’s neither here nor there, but we always do this with the past.

    The past is actually kind of a random walk, without much purpose or even coherence. We come along later, and to make sense of it all, impose a narrative and then select only the evidence that fits that narrative. If Spielberg does it as well, he’s hardly unique. I would assume that some Jews didn’t have the usual horrific experiences, or whatever. That’s the way reality is. It doesn’t stick to the script.

  221. @OilcanFloyd

    If I were a Jew, especially in the US, I might be thinking seriously of collective self-defence when I read something like that from one of the other 97 per cent of Americans.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  222. Anyway, this thread keeps turning into ‘did the Holocaust happen?’

    With all due respect to the Holocaust deniers, the question is not whether it did, but rather, to what extent was Hitler aware of it, ordered it, etc.

    I find that intriguing, and it’d be nice to see some discussion of it. The problem with Holocaust denial is that it makes nonsense of the whole question. How could Hitler have been aware of something that didn’t take place?

    So maybe the Holocaust deniers should just be quiet. Think of yourselves as atheists. Let us Christians contemplate the mysteries of the Trinity — even if you think the whole question is silly.

  223. Erebus says:
    @Johnny Rico

    There’s no document for capitalism or economics or the Vietnam War either. Did they also not happen?… plenty of well-documented things like the moon-landing and 9/11 are denied by you as well.

    In the 1st place there’s mountains of documents on capitalism, economics and the Vietnam War. Some, such as The Pentagon Papers are notorious. In the 2nd place, “well-documented” does not have the same meaning as having been “written about and disseminated by lots of people.” In fact, the latter is an oft-used strategy to hide a lack of the former.

    As you’re “… not looking for an explanation for any of this anymore than I’m looking for an explanation for why it is raining.” (@183) one wonders why you’re here complaining that the explanations aren’t satisfactory. Incurious persons usually avoid such discussions, preferring to not look for explanations quietly by themselves.

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  224. Momus says:
    @OilcanFloyd

    Apart from crying, what are you going to do about it?

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    , @renfro
    , @Wally
  225. SomeGuy says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    “However, having read the reader-comments up to this point (comment #46), I notice that none even so much as mentions the key quotation that I present in this article, which is “in his Secret Conversations (Table Talk) of 21 October 1941, Hitler concluded his long tirade against Jews: ‘By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service …’,” which should settle the matter as to whether Hitler was proud of his “extermination” of Jews…”

    I will bite. Here is a list of the 15 statements I was able to locate in Cameron & Stevens’ 3rd edition of Table Talk:

    1. Oct 17, 1941: “As for the natives, we’ll have to screen them carefully. The Jew, that destroyer, we shall drive out.”
    –Forced relocation.

    2. Oct 21, 1941 “In the old days, the destruction of the libraries. Isn’t that what happened in Russia? The result: a frightful levelling-down. Didn’t the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. To-day, it’s in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday, the instigator was Saul: the instigator to-day, Mardochai. Saul has changed into St. Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a Service of which our soldiers can have no idea.”
    –What “ausrotten” mean here is unclear, but killing is a plausible interpretation.

    3. Oct 25, 1941: “From the rostrum of the Reichstag I prophesied to Jewry that, in the event of war’s proving inevitable, the Jew would disappear from Europe…. Let nobody tell me that all the same we can’t park them in the marshy parts of Russia! Who’s worrying about our troops? It’s not a bad idea, by the way, that public rumour attributes to us a plan to exterminate the Jews. Terror is a salutary thing.
    The attempt to create a Jewish state will be a failure.

    I have numerous accounts to settle, about which I cannot think to-day. But that doesn’t mean I forget them. I write them down. The time will come to bring out the big book ! Even with regard to the Jews, I’ve found myself remaining inactive. There’s no sense in adding uselessly to the difficulties of the moment. One acts more shrewdly when one bides one’s time. . . . When I read of the speeches of a man like Galen, I remind myself that there’s no point in administering pin-pricks,
    and that for the moment it’s preferable to be silent. Why should anyone have room to doubt the durability of our movement? And if I reflect that it will last several centuries, then I
    can offer myself the luxury of waiting.”

    –Forced relocation. Here “ausrotten” does seem to mean “töten” or something different that forced relocation, but he is saying that it is a seemingly false rumor, immediately before “The attempt to create a Jewish state will be a failure.” It is not clear what that means. Later, he notes he will settle accounts with the Jews [and the Church] in the future, when he has time.

    4. Nov 5, 1941: “The end of the war will see the final ruin of the Jew. The Jew is the incarnation of egoism. And their egoism goes so far that they’re not even capable of risking their lives for the defence of their most vital interests…. Put the Jews all together: by the end of three hundred years, they’ll have devoured one another”
    –Forced relocation.

    5. Nov 19, 1941: “This sniveling in which some of the bourgeois are indulging nowadays, on the pretext that the Jews have to clear out of Germany, isjust typical of these holier-than-thou’s’
    –Forced relocation.

    6. Jan 6, 1942: “Experience teaches us that after every catastrophe a scapegoat is found. In England, it will probably be the Jew. But let them settle that between themselves. It’s not our mission to settle the Jewish question in other people’s countries!”
    –Concern only with German Jews.

    7. Jan 22, 1942: “A good three hundred or four hundred years will go by before the Jews set foot again in Europe”
    –Forced relocation. (How else would they get back?)

    8. Jan 23, 1942: “The Jew must clear out of Europe. Otherwise no understanding will be possible between Europeans. It’s the Jew who prevents everything. When I think about it, I realise that I’m extraordinarily humane. At the time of the rule of the Popes, the Jews were mistreated in Rome. Until 1830, eight Jews mounted on donkeys were led once a year through the streets of Rome. For my part, I restrict myself to telling them they must go away. If they break their pipes on the journey, I can’t do anything about it. But if they refuse to go voluntarily, I see no other solution but extermination. Why should I look at a Jew through other eyes than if he were a Russian prisoner-of-war?”
    –Encouraged relocation (“go voluntarily”). Here “ausrotten” is ambiguous. It could mean either killing or forced removal. The analogy with Russian POWs, half or whom were left to starve or die of disease, would certainly suggest brutal treatment.

    9. Jan 27, 1942: “The Jews must pack up, disappear from Europe. Let them go to Russia. Where the Jews are concened, I’m devoid of all sense of pity. They’ll always be the ferment that moves peoples one against the other.”
    –Forced relocation.

    10. Feb 3, 1942: So the Jew smacks his thighs to see how his diabolic stratagem has succeeded. He bears in mind that if his victims suddenly became aware of these things, all Jews would be exterminated. But, this time, the Jews will disappear from Europe. The world will breathe freely and recover its sense ofjoy, when this weight is no longer crushing its shoulders.”
    –Ambiguous (“will disappear”).

    11. Feb 22, 1942: The discovery of the Jewish virus is one of the greatest revolutions that have taken place in the world. The battle in which we are engaged to-day is of the same sort as the battle waged, during the last century, by Pasteur and Koch. How many diseases have their origin in the Jewish virus ! Japan would have been contaminated, too, if it had stayed open to the Jews. We shall regain our health only by eliminating the Jew. Everything has a cause, nothing comes by chance.”
    –Unclear, since the question is as to the meaning of “ausrotten”. However, the analogy to pathogen would suggest democide.

    12. March 20, 1942: “In fact, Judaism, this form of mental depravation that must at all costs be abolished, has made the fixing of prices depend on the laws of supply and demand — factors, that is to say, which have nothing to do with the intrinsic value of an article. By creating the system of caveat emptor, the Jew has established a juridical basis for his rogueries. And thus it is that during the last two centuries, and with rare exceptions, our commerce has been dragged down to such a level that it has become absolutely necessary to apply a remedy. One first condition is necessary: to do away with the Jews.”
    –Unclear (“do away with”).

    13. May 15, 1942: “”It does not occur to any of those who howl when we transport a few Jews to the east that the Jew is a parasite and as such is the only human being capable of adapting himself to any climate and of earning a living just as well in Lapland as in the tropics. Among our petty bourgeois there are not a few who priđe themselves on reading their Bible; but they don’t seem to know that, according to the Old Testament, the Jew survives with equal ease a sojourn in the desert and a Crossing of the Red Sea.”
    –Forced relocation.

    14. April 4, 1942: “As far as we are concerned, we’ve succeeded in chasing the Jews from our midst and excluding Christianity from our political life… our upper classes, who’ve never bothered about the hundreds of thousands of German emigrants or their poverty, give way to a feeling of compassion regarding the fate of the Jews whom we claim the right to expel. Our compatriots forget too easily that the Jews have accomplices all over the world, and that no beings have greater powers of resistance as regards adaptation to climate. Jews can prosper anywhere, even in Lapland and Siberia.”
    –Forced relocation.

    15. May 15, 1942: “Frequently during the course of history, the Jew has become too presumptuous and has exploited to excess the country into which he has insinuated himself. And the countries concerned, victims of his plundering, have one after the other borne witness to the damage they have suffered at the hands of Jewry; each country has then tried, in its own way and when the opportunity arose, to solve the problems arising from the presence of the Jews. And the telegram which we have just read shows with what speed the Turks, for their part, are in process of solving the problem.”
    –Referring to expulsions of Jews throughout history.

    Of these 15 confidential statements in which we would expect Hitler to be candid, 13 propose some sort of solution (exclude #6 and #15). Of these 13, 9 clearly express the desire for voluntary (1) or forced relocation (8). Of the remaining 4, 2 are cryptic (#9 Jews “will disappear” from Europe,
    #11 “One first condition is necessary: to do away with the Jews”) and consistent with either forced relocation or killing. This leaves 2 statements about Jews out of several hundred from 1941-1944 and 13 that specifically discussion what to do which could be construed as physically killing:

    #2 “To-day, it’s in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday, the instigator was Saul: the instigator to-day, Mardochai. Saul has changed into St. Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By [purging/rooting out/destoying/kill] this pest, we shall do humanity a Service of which our soldiers can have no idea.”
    #10 “Japan would have been contaminated, too, if it had stayed open to the Jews. We shall regain our health only by [purging/rooting out/destoying/kill] the Jew. Everything has a cause, nothing comes by chance.”

    The term used was “ausrotten”. It can mean “to kill off” ["töten"], “to eliminate” [beseitigen], “to extirpate” [gänzlich beseitigen], “to weed out” [ausmerzen], “to purge” [säubern], to root out ["Wurzeln ausreißen"], etc. The exact intent with respect to physical destruction is not clear — and intent is your whole point!

    In Table Talk, we are told that Bolshevism “must be [ausrotten]“, Christians [er rottete aus] its adversaries in the name of love,” the communists in Italy would have “[ausrotten]” the aristocracy”, we should “[ausrotten] the lie [of religion]“, the clergy would have been [ausrotten] by the Spanish cleregy, one of three ways of settling the social question is that the “proletariat [ausrotten] the possessing class,” etc. Some of the usages mean “physically kill off” and some usages can not mean this, but rather “to root out” (in the indefinate English sense).

    So, no, the question of meaning — of these 2 quotes — is not settled. But let me ask, why did Hitler so often discuss relocating Jews in his secret discussions, if his goal, in fact, was to physically kill. Did he keep changing his mind? Or did he not want to let his fellow Nazis know his true intents?

    I come across more explicit expressions of a desire to, uh, ‘deal with the problem’ on typical altright comment sections in a week than in 3 years of Hilter’s secret conversations. I would expect something more explicit.

    I agree with the other commenters. Zuesse’s very selective citation of Table Talk, his misrepresentation of Adolf Eichmann’s pre-trial interrogation statement — Jochen von Lang’s “Eichmann Interrogated” is deceptively transformed to: “In [Eichmann's] 1983 “Eichmann Interrogated”, and his circular reasoning (i.e., Hitler must have always wanted to kill the jews otherwise he would not have expended crucial war resources on killing the jews), along with his reliance on ad hominems and passive aggressive smearing — leads me to believe none can be made.

    Incidentally, I suggest everyone here read Table Talk. It is now on internet archive. There are some very interesting observations.

  226. @Eric Zuesse

    Can your book be found online? If not Amazon maybe in Ron Unz’s archive? You could relieve him of any Copyright problems he might forsee.

    • Replies: @Eric Zuesse
  227. kikl says:
    @Wally

    Great post wally. I already referred to the famous Lammers quote that Adolf Hitler said the final solution should be put on the back burner. So far Zuesse hasn’t responded to this evidence.

    The fact of the matter is that the evidence for a Hitler command to exterminate the jews is ambiguous. We have clear evidence against such a decision and less clear evidence for such a decision – Himmler’s infamous Posen speeches.

  228. @utu

    There is no mention of genocide in Mein Kampf at all
    Jews are called parasites.
    This also was, in my opinion, the basis of the Madagaskar plan.
    Deporting all jews to Madagaskar, where they would have to look after themselves.

  229. @Skeptikal

    Einsatzgruppen.
    Read
    Arthur R. Butz, ´The hoax of the twentieth century, The case against the presumed extermination of European Jewry’, Costa Mesa CA, 1977, 1989
    on how the ‘testimonies’ of twelve presumed former members of these Gruppen were obtained,
    and
    Léon Poliakov, ‘Bréviaire de la Haine, Le IIIe Reich et les Juifs’, 1951, 1974, Paris
    on the miracles these Gruppen performed.

  230. @SolontoCroesus

    Indeed, the present situation in the USA resembles, in my opinion, the Weimar Republic

    • Replies: @Joecanuc
  231. @renfro

    Ernest Hanfstaengel was wrong.
    See the statistics in
    Ismar Schorsch, ‘Jewish Reactions to German Anti-Semitism, 1870 – 1914′, New York 1972

  232. @Eric Zuesse

    Did you read
    Otto Wagener, ‘Hitler aus nächster Nähe, Aufzeichnungen eines Vertrauten 1929-1932, Hrsg. Henry A. Turner’, 1987, Kiel, ISBN 3-88741-129-3 ?
    In my opinion the best book on what Hitler thought

    • Replies: @Eric Zuesse
  233. @utu

    The following book by French authors strongly suggests that the Paris murder was a deliberate provocation
    René d’Argile, etc., Das Geheimnis um die Ursachen des Zweiten Weltkrieges, Wiesbaden 1958 ( Les Originals Secrêtes de la Guerre 1939 – 1945, Paris 1958).

  234. @Eric Zuesse

    ” his Secret Conversations (Table Talk) of 21 October 1941, ”
    There exist grave doubts about the truth of these conversations

  235. @Erebus

    Hillberg, ‘already’ on page 300 or so one reads that Auschwitz was a big industrial centre
    Raul Hilberg, ‘The destruction of the European Jews’, student edition, Teaneck, 1985
    I invite anyone to read it, I’d say no better holocaust debunking than this book.

  236. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    Commenter Wally is correct http://www.unz.com/article/against-david-irvings-view-of-hitler/#comment-2375601 the English Table Talks translation is not very accurate; following the German original passage of the English Table Talks excerpt I quoted above. There is no mention of a “public rumor” in the German original nor of “marshy parts of Russia”, and this original German passage actually makes Hitler seem more homicidally intentioned towards Jews than the English version conveys:

    Führerhauptquartier
    25. 10. 1941, abends
    Gäste: RFSS Himmler
    Obergruppenführer Heydrich 119
    H/Fu.
    Vor dem Reichstag habe ich dem Judentum prophezeit,120 der Jude werde aus Europa
    verschwinden, wenn der Krieg nicht vermieden bleibt. Diese Verbrecherrasse hat die zwei 85
    Millionen Toten des Weltkrieges auf dem Gewissen, jetzt wieder Hunderttausende. Sage mir
    keiner: Wir können sie doch nicht in den Morast schicken! Wer kümmert sich denn um unsere
    Menschen? Es ist gut, wenn uns der Schrecken vorangeht, daß wir das Judentum ausrotten.
    Der Versuch, einen Judenstaat zu gründen, wird ein Fehlschlag sein.

    – pp. 84-85 http://der-fuehrer.org/bucher/deutsch/Adolf%20Hitler%20-%20Monologe%20im%20Fuehrerhauptquartier%201941-1944.pdf

    Here is a better and more accurate translation:

    16.4 On 25 October Hitler made the following remark at his table talk, after he had once again made mention of his “prophecy” of 30 January 1939:

    This criminal race has the two million dead from the World War on its conscience, now again hundreds of thousands. No one can say to me: we can’t send them in the morass! Who then cares about our people? It is good if the terror we are exterminating Jewry goes before us.149

    https://www.hdot.org/longrole/#longRole16.4_n149

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  237. ANON[240] • Disclaimer says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    Your peroration is a rhetorical flourish as dopey as “were there some truth to the idea that Germany breached its treaty obligations and invaded neutral Belgium there would be no need for embellishment with tales of German Schrecklichkeit like skewering babies with bayonets”.

    As for “if some of it is a lie then all of it is a lie” I can only ask if you have invented a new school of logic.

  238. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    He seems to be one of the best informed people on this thread. You, correspondingly must be pig ignorant.

  239. Mr Zuesse
    as far as I can see you carefully avoid answering me.
    Must be difficult, having written a book about why something happened that never happened.

    Let me be clear, there is no doubt whatsoever that jews were persecuted, deported, and died after deportation.
    My country, the Netherlands, a good example.
    We had about 120.000 jews, of which 20.000 recent refugees, the last categorie to a large extent went into hiding.
    The 100.000 were deported, about 5.000 survived.
    The question is how they died, and if there was any intention that they should die.
    Murdering jews did happen, by Poles and Lithuanians.
    The why by the Lithuanians, clear to me, jews controlled economic life.

    In my view, based on dozens of books about these persecutions, camp life etc., the majority died because the camps had autonomous self management.
    This management, some 25 % of those in the camps, ate well, according to Rassinier up to 3500 kcal a day, Wiesel does not give numbers, but describes the phenomenon.
    Those not in the management got some 1100 kcal a day, death after six months, unless, as Rassinier, they regularly got food from outside.
    The SS hardly ever entered the camp.
    As Kogon, himself a management member, he survived in good health seven years in a camp, 1938 to 1945, writes, the camp management organised the labour groups.

    Zyklon B gas chambers existed, for delousing clothes, lice cause typhoid.
    Camps had swimming pools, cinemas, theatres, whatever, just the camp management used these facilities, the underfed 75 % was too tired.

    From early 1945 on conditions worsened considerably, USA fighter bombers made any transport impossible, hardly any food, no Zyklon B, Anne Frank died of typhoid.

    Now about the why, this was the Madagaskar plan, where jews were to live on their own, impossible te be parasites.
    This was the Final Solution, to be executed after the war.

    The weird thing is that Koestler decribes something similar about zionist idealists in Palestine, there, working with shovels, intellectuals said to each othert that jews, mainly working as intellectuals, journalists, lawyers, judges, should change.

    Then, why did all this happen, mainly in Germany.
    The 1870 attack by France on what now is S Germany made the unification of Germany possible.
    The feudal agrarian society rapidly changed into an industrial one, where trade and banking became important.
    The German peasants did nog fill the gap, neither the German aristocracy, owning land was socially important.
    Jew filled the gap, became prosperous, some very, Rothschilds and Bleichröder;
    Their mistake was flaunting their wealth, and imagining they were real Germans.
    This did not make them popular.
    Bleichröder never realised that his sumptuous parties did not make him acceptable a a real German, on the contrary, the top German social level attended his parties, and ridiculed him and his wife afterwards.
    Jews controlled the Weimar Republic, making things worse for themselves.

    Jews caused the German defeat of 1918, the USA military intervention was bought through the Balfour declaration, Morgenthau sr, his parents had fled from Germany, was rabidly anti German, he invented not only the German war guilt for WWII, he also invented the Armenian genocide.
    Baruch was somone like Morgenthau, his parents also fled from Germany, he also hated Germany.

    If you want references, I can give them.

    Despite their, on average high IQ, not very clever people, jews, in my opinion.
    Netanyahu thinks he can convince the world that the whole world is wrong, USA leading jewry does not realise they’re living on top of a volcano that can burst at any minute.
    What makes Soros think he’s more or less the dictator of the EU, without making a lot of enemies, unable to comprehend.
    In 1946, when all had failed, Baruch still pleaded for a world government.

    • Replies: @renfro
    , @Wizard of Oz
  240. Heros says:
    @utu

    “You are a dishonest manipulator with zero integrity.”

    Bernhard of Moon of Alabama came to the same conclusion and blocked Zeusse from commenting a few months back.

  241. j2 says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    Eric Zuesse writes:
    “my investigation focused only on reading everything that was written by or reliably transcribed from Hitler; … I was stunned to see that he really did know the Bible almost by heart. … He was deeply affected by the Bible — both the New and the Old Testaments. He was struggling to understand it, as he called it in only his private notes: “The Bible — Monumental History of Mankind.” He read Revelation 20:1-7 and was inspired by it to eliminate all Jews for the Thousand-Year Reich” to start.”

    I think you made an important historical discovery as this fits very well to the general scheme.

    Thus, Hitler first understood Jews as the snake which will be destroyed, but after discussing with the Pope he changed his mind. The Pope could only explain the Catholic, Protestant and Jewish understanding of the events before the end of the times. In all there is the great persecution and in many there is the return of the Jews to Palestine: even if your people are as many as sand on the beach, only a handful will remain, but this reminder will return, cleansed by fire. If Hitler knew the Bible almost by heart, he certainly knew the prophesies of Isaiah and Zechariah.

    Because it is what he did. He organized the persecution and 1/3 died. The reminder was small but they survived and established Israel. This is not a full genocide, as the goal of a genocide is the extinction of the people. This is near extinction, cleansing. Hitler made the Haavara agreement. He forcibly moved Jews to camps and did not settle them. He had underlined a sentence from another anti-Semitic Zionist (de Lagarde) that Jews must be restored to Palestine. Because of Mufti he could not do it during the war, but the Bible does not say anything of Madagascar or physical extermination of all Jews at the end of the times.

    The work of Jesus can only be accomplished at the end of the times. People, who want to fill some task coming from reading the Bible, are as a rule Messianic and think they are living at the end of the times. There are only two interpretations to the great persecution: that it is against Christians or that it is against Jews. In WWII the persecution was against Jews, thus a small reminder of Jews was to return to Palestine. This refutes your claim of physical extermination so that no one would remain. The facts also refute physical extermination of all Jews as the goal: camp inmates were given a choice to wait for Soviets or to go with Germans. Had Hitler meant to exterminate all, these inmates had all been killed. The stem of David had to stay.

    The reason why this natural explanation is not generally accepted is, I think, that it implicates Zionists as co-planners of the persecution and also points out to the later disguises of secret societies that had their hand in Enlightenment and the New World. It is better to have only Hitler to blame.

    • Replies: @Eric Zuesse
    , @Wizard of Oz
  242. Momus says:
    @Art

    How about the Jew bankers that funded both sides? Churchill had Jew bankers and Hitler had Jew bankers.

    What is the truly ugly history of Jew banking, past and present?

    Some bankers are Jews. So what?

  243. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    No one can deny the ruthlessness of some Zionists but apart from the fact that the British at the time were not allowing significant immigration to Palestine I wonder how you think the tiny “Mossad” of the 30s would have got the Nazi thugs to perpetrate Kristallnacht.

  244. @Caruthers

    You don’t understand what “on a need-to-know basis” means. Try: https://www.italki.com/question/116905?hl=en-us

    • Replies: @Caruthers
  245. @utu

    The quotation from Mein Kampf is: “it is the inexorable Jew who struggles for his domination over the nations. No nation can remove this hand from its throat except by the sword. Only the assembled and concentrated might of a national passion rearing up in its strength can defy the international enslavement of peoples. Such a process is and remains a bloody one.”

    • Replies: @kikl
    , @j2
    , @Skeptikal
    , @KenH
    , @utu
  246. @Wizard of Oz

    It’s online; used copies, I suppose.

  247. @jilles dykstra

    Yes. I didn’t find it particularly insightful. However, I thought the book was sincere. Wagener also was honest about Hitler’s being — and influenced by and thinking in terms of — Christian (a believer in both the Old and New Testaments, unlike Rosenberg, who rejected the Old). It’s not “politically correct” for historians to acknowledge that. However, Wagener wasn’t close to Hitler; Hitler didn’t deal with him like, for examples, with Kubizek or Putzi, when they were children or young, or like with Himmler, when they were adults.

  248. anarchyst says:
    @Colin Wright

    Ursula Haverbeck and Monika Schaefer are living proof that the so-called holocaust ™ needs to be “propped up” by its promoters as the impossible claims and many falsehoods are finally coming to light.
    Imprisoning two 80+ year-old grandmothers in maximum-security facilities for “incorrect thoughts” about the holocaust ™ is a prime example of holocaustianity ™ being out of control and in serious need of REAL investigation…

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  249. kikl says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    “…it is the inexorable Jew who struggles for his domination over the nations. No nation can remove this hand from its throat except by the sword. Only the assembled and concentrated might of a national passion rearing up in its strength can defy the international enslavement of peoples. Such a process is and remains a bloody one.”

    So where does Hitler say that he wants to kill all the jews? He wants to use violence in order to protect his nation from Jewish domination.

    By the way: You are completely isolated with your opinion. You won’t find any reputable and living historian of the holocaust who believes that Hitler had decided to kill all the jews from the moment he had read Mein Kampf. I told you: Because Hitler pursued a policy of jewish emigration from Germany.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

    So far you have simply denied this evidence.

    • Replies: @Karl
    , @Eric Zuesse
  250. j2 says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    “Such a process is and remains a bloody one.”

    Clearly, Hitler refers to something that has been done before and must be done again: “is and remains”. Jews were not exterminated before, they were expulsed by force, faced persecution and forced conversions. Hitler expulsed them and it was bloody and by the sword. This still does not prove a plan for physical extermination of all Jews of Europe.

  251. @Momus

    The question/issue is what it is, and has been around forever. Apparently, you believe that non-Jews should have no say in the issue. Typical. I understand my role as an individual is extremely limited. Maybe you’ll learn the same of yourself one day. I hope that’s a painful day for you.

  252. @utu

    The Jewish propaganda machine turned Herschel Grynspan from murderer to hero.

    Dorothy Thompson led the charge, publishing and broadcasting heart-rending defenses of the “persecuted young man;” creating a fund for his defense.

    USHMM slobbers over Thompson’s broadcasts and writing

    https://exhibitions.ushmm.org/americans-and-the-holocaust/personal-story/dorothy-thompson

    Thompson worked for NBC, which Benjamin Ginsberg discloses in “How the Jews Defeated Hitler,”

    “The increasingly anti-German and interventionist perspective presented by the film studios in 1940 was echoed by important segments of the news media, particularly the radio networks. Two of the most important networks, CBS and NBC, embodied the pro-British, anti-German alliance between America’s Jews and establishment Protestants. These networks were owned by Jews, while their most important news broadcasters and journalists were such establishment figures as Edward R. Murrow and William Shirer. “

    ( plus les choses changent, plus elles restent les mêmes American Pravda: Breaching the Media Barrier RON UNZ • October 24, 2016 )

    from Jewish Currents:

    “Dorothy Thompson, known as “The First Lady of American Journalism,” offered an impassioned defense on NBC radio of Herschel Grynszpan, the Polish-German Jewish assassin of Nazi diplomat Ernst vom Rath, on this date in 1938.

    Grynszpan’s crime was in retaliation for the suffering and deportation from Germany of his parents (among thousands of other Polish Jews); the Nazis used the assassination as their pretext for launching Kristallnacht, a two-day nationwide pogrom in which 30,000 Jewish men were arrested.

    Thompson’s broadcast, only four days after Kristallnacht, was heard by millions of Americans and helped to mobilize public opinion against the Nazi regime. Thompson, who was not Jewish, had interviewed Hitler in 1931 and described him as “inconsequent and voluble, ill poised and insecure. He is the very prototype of the little man.” The Nazis ejected her from Germany three years later. After the war, she renounced the pro-Zionist opinions of her younger days, became a sharp critic of Israel, and wrote and made a film about the plight of Palestinian refugees.”

    from Jewish Telegraphic Agency (JTA):

    Dorothy Thompson Group to Bring Grynszpan’s Parents to America
    April 2, 1939 PARIS (Mar. 31)
    Herschel Grynszpan, Polish Jewish youth who last November killed a German Embassy official here, expressed delight today when news reached him in his cell that the American Journalists Defense Committee headed by Dorothy Thompson had decided to bring to America his parents, who are among several thousand deportees from Germany still marooned in the Polish frontier town of Zbonszyn.

    Meanwhile, official French investigators have returned from Germany where they checked young Grynszpan’s statements and studied his records. Their return concludes the investigation process, although some documents which they brought still require translation from German to French.

    Grynszpan’s lawyers today predicted that his trial will not take place “for a good several months” and certainly not in May as had been previously forecast. They were pleased to learn of the plan to bring his parents out of Zbonszyn as this would enable them to testify during the trial.

    Central Jewish organizations which received the American group’s request to contact the elder Grynszpans immediately transmitted the news to Warsaw, where they must apply for visas. Doubt has been expressed that the visas will be quickly granted since the Polish quota to the United States is filled for several years ahead. At the same time it is hoped that the American consul at Warsaw may consider the special circumstances of the case and grant visas to the aged couple.

    AND

    January 1, 1939
    SAO PAULO, Brazil (Dec. 30)
    Calling on Brazilian intellectuals to support Herschel Grynszpan as a symbol of Jewish persecution, the young Brazilian Poet. . ., has announced that he will donate 50 per cent of the proceeds of this new book,. . . to the American Journalists’ Defense Fund for the young Polish Jew who killed a German Embassy official in Paris. The fund was started by Dorothy Thompson.

  253. @j2

    Zionism and Nazism both are racists, both are tribalists. Furthermore, Hitler wasn’t lying when he cited racist passages in the Old Testament as, Hitler thought, justifying his own racism. There is a deep kinship between zionism and the Nazi Party. They feed off of one-another, back and forth, each using the other to ‘justify’ itself. This is the way that tribalists are.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @bj
    , @Heresey
  254. Zuesse cites this passage from Hitler’s Table-Talk, 21 October 1941,

    “By exterminating this pest [the Jews], we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea.”’

    But here’s a passage from the 25th of October.

    ‘From the rostrum of the Reichstag I prophesied to Jewry that, in the event of war’s proving inevitable, the Jew would disappear from Europe. That race of criminals has on its conscience the two million dead of the first World War, and now already hundreds of thousands more. Let nobody tell me that all the same we can’t park them in the marshy parts of Russia! Who’s worrying about our troops? It’s not a bad idea, by the way, that public rumour attributes to us a plan to exterminate the Jews. Terror is a salutary thing.’

    Seems like Zuesse is guilty of the same selectivity in his presentation of evidence as he accuses Irving of, otherwise he would have mentioned this passage.

  255. Mulegino1 says:
    @Colin Wright

    Real holocausts did indeed happen during the Second World War, but they were not directed at the Jews but against German and Japanese civilians by the RAF and USAAF. Dresden, Hamburg, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, inter alia, were subject to very real holocausts, faithful to the etymology of the term.

    The Jews in the camps were no doubt far better off than the civilians who were burned to death in these real holocausts, except in cases like Nordhausen, where the USAAF targeted the camp by mistake and killed most of the internees, and then used photographs of the bodies as “German atrocity” propaganda.

    All of this twisting and distorting of history by the Allies and their Jewish patrons shows that Hitler was fundamentally correct about the “big lie”, it is just that he is falsely accused of praising it when he actually condemns it.

  256. Skeptikal says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    Looking at the shape and trajectory of the world today, it does look as though Jews/Zionists aim for world domination through finance, through their proxies, the USA and NATO, and through the emotional anchor Eretz Israel—which validates their right to exist *as a state,* NOT as a religion to which individuals worldwide can adhere (such as Islam and Christianity). . . Can/Does anyone seriously argue that the Zionists do NOT aim to expand their shitty little country as far to the east and south and north as they possibly can—and also control the Med littoral and waters out to . . . how far?
    As far as they want!!!

    BTW, regarding who can be a Jew and who can be a Muslim:
    Although both “world religions” circumcise their male infants, I don’t think a male must be circumcised to accept Islam and become a Muslim. Unlike with the Jews. This barbaric ritual lies at the very heart of Judaism. The location of the required mutilation—the source of the Jewish “seed”— is telling.

    • Replies: @j2
  257. Karl says:
    @Art

    224 Art > the Jew

    revealing choice of words

    > an explosive bullet

    you must be reading a lot of Hollywood scripts

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  258. j2 says:
    @Skeptikal

    On, no. I decided to read the second book of Kevin MacDonald and noticed this sentence:

    “A 1976 resolution spoke of Jewish peoplehood and of ethnic ties with the state of Israel, but it also asserted that “The state of Israel and the diaspora, in fruitful dialogue, can show how a people transcends nationalism even as it affirms it, thereby setting an example for humanity which remains largely concerned with dangerously parochial goals.”

    Israel will transcend nationalism by future conquests and sets a new example for humanity.

    • Replies: @bjondo
    , @Art
  259. j2 says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    I will just quote MacDonald’s second book as I am reading it at the moment: “(Martin) Buber argued that Zionists desire a national homeland because of their interests in serving all of mankind. Only by fulfilling its messianic dream of a national homeland would the Jewish religion be able to lead humanity into the messianic age ”

    Notice the word messianic. Not only tribal. Messianic. Israel. End of the times. Final solution to the Jewish problem.

  260. Karl says:
    @kikl

    256 kiki > Because Hitler annunciated a policy of jewish emigration from Germany, but didn’t have the balls to actually facilitate it

    fixed it for you!

    teenage Jewish girls like Hannah Szenes moved more European Jews into Tel Aviv than Hitler’s entire bureaucracy did

    We don’t judge leaders by what they say. We judge them by what they did.

  261. @anarchyst

    Try reading my post again. Then try reading your ‘reply.’

    I’d like to talk about — and the article is about — whether the Patriots need a new quarterback. You’re discussing whether people should play football at all.

  262. @SomeGuy

    in his Secret Conversations

    It was secret, ok. Just take my word he said it. And it is only I, of all who heard, who bothered to recount it later.

  263. KenH says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    The Jewish policy of Hitler and the National Socialists from 1933-39 was emigration, not internment or extermination. The outbreak of war led to internment no different than how we interned some first generation Japanese, Germans and Italians.

    If they were hellbent on killing all Jews they would have commenced doing so immediately and not waited 6-8 years.

  264. bj says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    Not only is there a “deep kinship between Zionism and the Nazi Party”, there was active collaboration by Zionist Jews with the Nazi Party in the elimination of European Jewry. I recommend reading the Lenni Brenner’s “51 Documents” for the history and documentation of Zionist crimes in this era.

    I recommend this document as evidence that Zionists rely on and encourage anti-Semitism to corral, sacrifice, and deceive Jews to attain their psychopathic drive to rule humanity, Jew and Gentile alike. The Zionist’s use the sacrifice of European Jewry as a shield to justify their ongoing crimes against humanity.

    The link is a PDF of “51 Documents”….indicting the Zionists for crimes against humanity. They have not been brought to justice, as have their Nazi counterparts.

    …..https://ia800207.us.archive.org/22/items/51DocumentsZionistCollaborationWithTheNazisLENNIBRENNER1983/51%20Documents%20Zionist%20Collaboration%20with%20the%20Nazis%20-%20LENNI%20BRENNER%20-%201983.pdf

    • Replies: @bj
  265. bjondo says:
    @j2

    Israel will transcend nationalism by future conquests and sets a new example for humanity.

    Succeeded beyond Jew most demonic dreams: New examples, new levels of barbarism, lying, manipulation, thievery, butchery, violence, perversions.

  266. bj says:
    @bj

    “But now Israel is everyday’s TV news, and at least the historically educated, Jew and gentile,are grasping that fuller understanding of Zionism, with its 200 A-bombs, is essential to a sophisticated world politics. Today, with the internet, talk radio, public access TV, and a sharp decline of Zionist sentiment among America’s Jews, the general public and media, the stark record will assuredly batter through any obstacles to reach serious researchers, well beyond specialists.”

    https://rosswolfe.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/lenni-brenner-51-documents-zionist-collaboration-with-the-nazis.pdf

  267. renfro says:
    @Colin Wright

    I find that intriguing, and it’d be nice to see some discussion of it. The problem with Holocaust denial is that it makes nonsense of the whole question. How could Hitler have been aware of something that didn’t take place?

    That’s ridiculous……why discuss what Hitler knew without first proving there was an actual ‘holocaust’ to know about.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  268. renfro says:
    @Momus

    I don’t know what Floyd does about it.
    But I happily take credit for turning lots of people against Israel in my 16 years of monitoring the I-P and US-Isr issue.
    So you can give me credit for a part in the polls that show how public support of Israel has declined since 2003.
    Keep pissing us off…..it works to our advantage.

  269. bjondo says:

    Repost:

    “…according to the World Almanac the world population of Jews increased (!) between 1933 and 1948 from 15,315,000 to 15,753,000. If the German government under Adolf Hitler had – as alleged – murdered six million Jews those losses should have been reflected in the Jewish population numbers quoted in the World Almanac.
    The suspicions raised by above numbers concerning the veracity of the allegations made against the Hitler government are confirmed by the official three-volume report by the International Committee of the Red Cross, released 1948 in Geneva, according to which 272,000 concentration camp inmates died in German custody, about half of them Jews.”

    http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=85432

  270. KenH says:

    This falls far short as a refutation of David Irving’s work. The author seems to base his case on the testimony of Adolf Eichmann who I believe was tortured into making false confessions similar to how SS and other German officers were tortured into confessing about atrocities against Jews.

    http://www.ihr.org/books/hoggan/09.html

    Even if the Germans are truly guilt of some of what they’re accused of it pales in comparison to the scale which the Jewish created and operated Soviet Union murdered, imprisoned and tortured people.

  271. kikl says:

    “We don’t judge leaders by what they say. We judge them by what they did.”

    The transfer agreement is something Hitler actually did.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

    “The Haavara Agreement (Hebrew: הסכם העברה Translit.: heskem haavara Translated: “transfer agreement”) was an agreement between Nazi Germany and Zionist German Jews signed on 25 August 1933. The agreement was finalized after three months of talks by the Zionist Federation of Germany, the Anglo-Palestine Bank (under the directive of the Jewish Agency) and the economic authorities of Nazi Germany. It was a major factor in making possible the migration of approximately 60,000 German Jews to Palestine in 1933–1939.[1]”

    Hitler wouldn’t have transferred 60000 Jews to Palestine, if he had wanted to kill them. Quod erat demonstrandum!

    That’s why not a single reputable holocaust historian believes the silly story that Hitler had planned to kill the Jews when he wrote Mein Kampf or when he came into power in 1933. That’s silly allied propaganda that is easily refuted.

    Holocaust historians are still quarreling about when Hitler made the extermination decision. The majority appears to believe that the decision was made at some point in time between the summer of 1941 and the spring of 1942 – the reason for this uncertainty is that they do not have any documents which prove the existence of this Hitler order. The revisionists believe that Hitler never decided to kill all the jews.

    • Replies: @Art
    , @Wally
  272. Art says:
    @j2

    On, no. I decided to read the second book of Kevin MacDonald and noticed this sentence:

    “A 1976 resolution spoke of Jewish peoplehood and of ethnic ties with the state of Israel, but it also asserted that “The state of Israel and the diaspora, in fruitful dialogue, can show how a people transcends nationalism even as it affirms it, thereby setting an example for humanity which remains largely concerned with dangerously parochial goals.”

    Bet McDonald, would like to take that sentence back.

    What crap – “an example for humanity” — 200 hidden nukes – an apartheid state – coercive relationships with all its neighbors – voted against at the UN by the representatives of 7,000,000,000 people. Condemned and hate by the good.

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Art

  273. utu says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    You concocted a synthetic ‘quote’ and attributed it to AH:

    the “elimination” of Jews must be “by the sword” and “bloody.”

    and now you claim it was really equivalent to these words written by AH

    “it is the inexorable Jew who struggles for his domination over the nations. No nation can remove this hand from its throat except by the sword. Only the assembled and concentrated might of a national passion rearing up in its strength can defy the international enslavement of peoples. Such a process is and remains a bloody one.”

    Where is you judgment? Don’t you see it is wrong what you did? Or you do but you have no shame? Where does your chutzpah come from? Or do you really think that this is just OK what you are doing?

    You planted the phrase ‘“elimination” of Jews’ to suggest extermination and there is nothing about extermination in the whole MK and there is no word ‘elimination’ in the actual quote. The word ‘bloody’ is an adjective that Hitler and the translators like. It was used in MK 15 times in the evasion I have. The phrase with or by the sword is used 14 times like in this passage:

    no nation has more carefully prepared its economic conquest with the sword with greater brutality and defended it later on more ruthlessly than the British.

    or this

    Germany had to be prepared with the help of the sword to stand up some day for her attempt to secure her daily bread by way of a ‘peaceful economic work.’

    Most importantly Hitler’s quote is descriptive not proscriptive. And who or what is ‘the inexorable Jew ‘ or ‘the implacable world Jew’ as another translation has it? Does he mean bankers and media bosses or all Jews including children’s and infants? Does he talk about the fist of Jewish children and infants? But this is exactly what you are trying to imply with your concocted ‘quote.’

  274. Art says:
    @kikl

    The revisionists believe that Hitler never decided to kill all the jews.

    Hmm — he never killed his Zionist Jew bankers!

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Art

    p.s. All the Rothschilds lived — go figure!

    p.s. Did the Rothschilds lose a penny?

  275. Wally says:
    @kikl

    And there is no physical evidence which would be massive if the ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ were facts.

    Think about it, we’re talking about an alleged ’6M Jews & 5M others’11,000,000.
    There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, 34,000 at Babi Yar) even though Jews claim they still exist to this day and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.

    See my other posts. Every angle of the ridiculous narrative / scam is covered.

    Cheers.

    http://www.codoh.com

  276. renfro says:
    @jilles dykstra

    We should indeed be talking about the Jews holocaust of Germans.

    Specifically the Jew Morgenthau’s post WWII plan for dismantling Germany and starving the Germans. Morgenthau was the then Sec of the US Treasury. His plan was known as the JCS 1067.

    Morgenthau embedded his “Morgenthau boys’ into the US occupation of Germany to enforce his plan. Morgenthau had set out the exact amount of calories a German was allowed per day in food. It was forbidden for any US forces or members to ‘share food’ , even ‘left over food’ had to be thrown out rather than given to any Germans.

    In October 1945 the UK government privately acknowledged in a cabinet meeting that, German civilian adult death rates due to starvation had risen to four times the pre-war levels and death rates amongst the German children had risen by 10 times the pre-war levels.

    General Lucius Clay stated in October 1945 that:
    “ undoubtedly a large number of refugees have already died of starvation, exposure and disease…. The death rate in many places has increased several fold, and infant mortality is approaching 65 percent in many places. By the spring of 1946, German observers expect that epidemics and malnutrition will claim 2.5 to 3 million victims between the Oder and Elbe.

    “General Patton. “Evidently the virus started by Morgenthau and Bernard Baruch of a Semitic revenge against all Germans is still working,” wrote the general in private. “I am frankly opposed to this war-criminal stuff. It is not cricket and it is Semitic… I can’t see how Americans can sink so low.”..

    Then in 1947 the U.S. Congress warned that the continuation of the present policies can only mean one of two things, (a) That a considerable part of the German population must be “liquidated” through diseases, malnutrition, and slow starvation for a period of years to come, with the resultant dangers to the rest of Europe from pestilence and the spread of plagues that know no boundaries; or (b) the continuation both of large occupying forces to hold down “unrest” and the affording of relief mainly drawn from the United States to prevent actual starvation.

    Conditions in Germany reached their lowest point in 1947. Living conditions were considered worse in 1947 than in 1945 or 1946. At an average ration of 1040 calories a day, malnutrition was at its worst stage in post-war Germany. Herbert Hoover asserted that this amount of rations was hardly more than the amount which caused thousands in the Nazi concentration camps to die from starvation.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_food_policy_in_occupied_Germany

    In January 1946, 34 U.S. Senators petitioned that private relief organizations be allowed to help in Germany and Austria, stating that the desperate food situation in occupied Germany:
    “presents a picture of such frightful horror as to stagger the imagination, evidence which increasingly marks the United States as an accomplice in a terrible crime against humanity.”[17]
    Criticism of the situation increased, Senator William Langer stated in a speech in the United States Congress:
    “ …among the crimes with which this (Nazi) leadership has been charged (at Nuremberg) is the crime of systematic and mass starvation of racial or political minorities or opponents…. Yet to our utter horror, we discover that our own policies have merely spread those same conditions…I hold in my hands absolutely authentic photographs which have been taken at the beginning of the winter in the city of Berlin. These photographs are interchangeable for horror with the photographs with which we became familiar from Dachau, Mauthausen, Buchenwald, and other extermination camps. These are photographs of children between the ages of 5 and 14…

    In early 1946 U.S. President Harry S. Truman bowed to pressure from Senators, Congress and public to allow foreign relief organization to enter Germany in order to review the food situation. In mid-1946 non-German relief organizations were permitted to help starving German children.[19] During 1946 the average German adult received less than 1,500 calories a day. 2,000 calories was then considered the minimum an individual can endure on for a limited period of time with reasonable health.[20] Providing an adequate supply of food to Germany

    Finally, as the outrages around the world over the treatment of Germans became too much for congress and the WH Truman appointed George Marshall in 1947 to come up with a plan to rebuild Germany….hence The Marshall Plan.

    • Replies: @renfro
    , @Wally
    , @Incitatus
  277. renfro says:
    @renfro

    Below is Morgenthau’s program for Germany. Basically destryoy everything in German, chop it up and give all parts of it to other nations, expell all Germans from Germany and untll this is completed put them on a starvation diet.
    Morgenthau Plan for erasing not only Germany but erasing the German ‘people’. It is so vile in its pure ‘blanket’ hate and revenge its hard to read.

    Morgenthau’s memorandum
    Morgenthau “Germany is our problem”
    The original memorandum, written sometime between January and early September 1944, signed by Morgenthau, and headed “Suggested Post-Surrender Program for Germany” is preserved at the Franklin D. Roosevelt Presidential Library and Museum. The text, and a facsimile image, can be viewed online.

    The main provisions can be summarized as follows:

    [MORE]

    “1. Demilitarization of Germany.
    It should be the aim of the Allied Forces to accomplish the complete demilitarization of Germany in the shortest possible period of time after surrender. This means completely disarming the German Army and people (including the removal or destruction of all war material), the total destruction of the whole German armament industry, and the removal or destruction of other key industries which are basic to military strength.
    2. Partitioning of Germany.
    (a) Poland should get that part of East Prussia which doesn’t go to the USSR and the southern portion of Silesia as indicated on the attached map, (Appendix A).
    (b) France should get the Saar and the adjacent territories bounded by the Rhine and the Moselle rivers.
    (c) As indicated in part 3 an International zone should be created containing the Ruhr and the surrounding industrial areas.
    (d) The remaining portion of Germany should be divided into two autonomous, independent states, (1) a South German state comprising Bavaria, Württemberg, Baden and some smaller areas and (2) a North German state comprising a large part of the old state of Prussia, Saxony, Thuringia and several smaller states.
    There shall be a custom union between the new South German state and Austria, which will be restored to her pre-1938 political borders.
    3. The Ruhr Area.
    (The Ruhr, surrounding industrial areas, as shown on the attached map, including the Rhineland, the Kiel Canal, and all German territory north of the Kiel Canal.)
    Here lies the heart of German industrial power, the cauldron of wars. This area should not only be stripped of all presently existing industries but so weakened and controlled that it can not in the foreseeable future become an industrial area. The following steps will accomplish this:
    (a) Within a short period, if possible not longer than 6 months after the cessation of hostilities, all industrial plants and equipment not destroyed by military action shall either be completely dismantled and removed from the area or completely destroyed. All equipment shall be removed from the mines and the mines shall be thoroughly wrecked.
    It is anticipated that the stripping of this area would be accomplished in three stages:
    (i) The military forces immediately upon entry into the area shall destroy all plants and equipment which cannot be removed.
    (ii) Removal of plants and equipment by members of the United Nations as restitution and reparation (Paragraph 4).
    (iii) All plants and equipment not removed within a stated period of time, say 6 months, will be completely destroyed or reduced to scrap and allocated to the United Nations.
    (b) All people within the area should be made to understand that this area will not again be allowed to become an industrial area. Accordingly, all people and their families within the area having special skills or technical training should be encouraged to migrate permanently from the area and should be as widely dispersed as possible.
    (c) The area should be made an international zone to be governed by an international security organization to be established by the United Nations. In governing the area the international organization should be guided by policies designed to further the above stated objectives.
    4. Restitution and Reparation.
    Reparations, in the form of recurrent payments and deliveries, should not be demanded. Restitution and reparation shall be effected by the transfer of existing German resources and territories, e.g.
    (a) by restitution of property looted by the Germans in territories occupied by them;
    (b) by transfer of German territory and German private rights in industrial property situated in such territory to invaded countries and the international organization under the program of partition;
    (c) by the removal and distribution among devastated countries of industrial plants and equipment situated within the International Zone and the North and South German states delimited in the section on partition;
    (d) by forced German labor outside Germany; and
    (e) by confiscation of all German assets of any character whatsoever outside of Germany.”
    5. Education and Propoganda. (a) All schools and universities will be closed until an Allied Commission of Education has formulated an effective reorginization program. It is contemplated that it may require a considerable periodof time before any institutions of higher education are reopened. Mean-while the education of German students in foreign universities willnot be prohibited. Elementary schools will be reopened as quickly asappropriate teachers and textbooks are available. (b) All German radio stations and newspapers, magazines, weeklies,etc. shall be discontinued until adequate controls are established and an appropriate program formulated
    6. Political Decentralization. The military administration in Germany in the initial period shouldbe carried out with a view toward the eventual partitioning of Germanyinto three states. To facilitate partitioning and to assure itspermanence the military authorities should be guided by the followingprinciples: (a) Dismiss all policy-making officials of the Reich governmentand deal primarily with local governments. (b) Encourage the reestablishment of state governments in each of the states (Lander) corresponding to 18 states into which Germanyis presently divided and in addition make the Prussian provinces seperate states. (c) Upon the partition of Germany, the various state governments should be encouraged to organize a federal government for each of thenewly partitioned areas. Such new governments should be in the form of a confederation of states, with emphasis on states’ rights and a large degree of local automony.
    7. Responsibility of Military for Local German Economy. The sole purpose of the military in control of the German economyshall be to facilitate military operations and military occupation. The Allied Military Government shall not assume responsibility for such economis problems as price controls, rationing, unemployment, production, reconstruction, distribution, consumption, housing, or transportation, or take any measures designed to maintain or strengthen operations. The responsibility for sustaining the German economy and people rests with the German people with such facilities as may be available under the circumstances.
    8. Controls over Development of German Economy. During a period of at least twenty years after surrender adequate controls, including controls over foreign trade and tight restrictions on capital imports, shall be maintained by teh United Nations designed to prevent in the newly-established states the establishment or expan- sion of key industries basic to the German military potential and tocontrol other key industries.
    9. Punishment of War Crimes and Treatment of Special Groups. There is attached (Appendix B) a program for the punishment ofcertain war crimes and for the treatment of Nazi orginizations and other special groups.
    10. Wearing of Insignia and Uniforms. (a) No person in German (except members of the United Nations andneutral countries) shall be permitted to wear any military insignia of rank or branch of service, service ribbons or military medals.
    (b) No such persons shall be permitted to wear, after 6 months from the cessation of hostilities any military uniform or any uniformof any quasi military orginizations.
    11. Prohibition on Parades. No military parades shall be permitted anywhere in German and all military bands shall be disbaded.
    12. Aircraft. All aircraft (including gliders), whether military or commercial, will be confiscated for later disposition. No German shall be permittedto operate or to help operate such aircraft, including those owned by foreign interests.
    13. United States Responsibility. (a) The responsibility of for the execution of the post-surrenderprogram for Germany set forth in this memorandum is the joint responsibilityof the United Nations. The execution of the joint policy agreedupon shall therefore eventually be entrusted to the internationalbody which emerges from United Nations discussions. Consideration of the specific measures to be taken in carrying out the joint program suggests the desireability of seperating the taskto be performed during the initial period of military occupation fromthose which will require a much longer period of execution. While theU.S., U.K., and U.S.S.R. will, for practical reasons, play the major role(of course aided by the miltary forces of the United Nations) in demilitarizing Germany (point 1) the detailed execution of other parts of the program can best be handled by Germany’s continental neighbors. (b) When Germany has been completely demilitarized there would be the following distribution of duties in carrying out the Germanprogram: (i) The U.S. would have military and civilian representation on whatever international commission or commissions may be establishedfor the execution of the whole German program and such representatives should have adequate U.S. staffs. (ii) The primary responsibility for the policing of Germanyand for Civil administration in Germany would be assumed by the military forces of Germany’s continental neighbors. Specifically, these should include Russian, French, Polish, Cech, Greek, Yugoslav, Norwegian,Dutch and Belgian soldiers. (c) Under this program United States troops could be withdrawn within a relatively short time. Actual withdrawl of United States troops should not precede agreement with the U.S.S.R. and the U.K.on the principles set forth in this memorandum.
    14. Appointment of an American High Commissioner An American High Commissioner for Germany should be appointed as soon as possible, so that he can sit in on the development of the American views on this problem.>>>>

    • Replies: @Them Guys
  278. Wally says:
    @SomeGuy

    See my post no. 210 in this thread about the fake ‘Table Talk’, and
    my post no. 73 which shatters the fake Eichmann nonsense.

    Cheers.

    http://www.codoh,com

    • Replies: @SomeGuy
  279. Wally says:
    @tac

    Good call tac.
    More from Master Chemist Germar Rudolf:
    Dissecting the Holocaust / The Growing Critique of ‘Truth’ and ‘Memory’: https://shop.codoh.com/book/38/38

    The Rudolf Report / Expert Report on Chemical and Technical Aspects
    of the ‘Gas Chambers’ of Auschwitz
    : http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/index.html

    ‘Some Technical and Chemical Considerations about the ‘Gas Chambers’ of Auschwitz and Birkenau’ http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndgcger.html

    Auschwitz: Plain Facts / A Response to Jean-Claude Pressac

    https://shop.codoh.com/book/412/417

    much, much more at: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=germar+rudolf
    view:
    Chemistry of Auschwitz / Birkenau

    http://www.codoh.com

  280. Them Guys says:
    @L.K

    Ever since Klintons NAFTA destructions of good jobs in usa, along with the Marxist jewdeo dumb down efforts in public schools and university students in America, which leaves most grads with little ability to get the few remaining jobs.

    There is One major method left within America to attain prosperity and even vast wealth. That is to agree with ziojewrys holohoax scams, agree with every possible jew agenda, and basically keep ones head firmly planted up jewish ass…..And in doing such, one can realize a hope of a book deal, job on talmudvision aka TV the electronic rabbi msm news shows as a “expert talker”, or if very good at promoting everything jewish, a movie part in the latest upcoming blockbuster movie of Speilburgs “Swindlers List-Part II”. Where in, this famous movie maker shows absolute proof of how a small 7 year old jewish boy was able to escape gassings a dozen times by, holding his breath for Ten min. while dragging dead adult sized bodies of jews gassed, over to below a Window in Gas Chamber stupid Nazis Forgot to Lock!….Then small 7 year old jewish boy could simply scale pile of dead bodies he dragged to unlocked window and climb Out to safety!…..Oy Vey say top jewish Hollywood movie critics!

    This may explain how even today with tons of evidence and refutations which prove so much of what we were taught to believe about the hoax scam claims by jews, and lies of WWII also from usa govnt official story. There are still many folks writing books and articles trying to convince the awake crowd to Return to the flock of total belief in whatever any so called “Survivah jew” claims, and to never dare question any govnt official story on WWII or Holojewry.

  281. Wally says:
    @Momus

    I know what I and countless others are ‘doing about it’; exposing the fraudulence and impossibility of the incredibly stupid Jew ’6M’ Big Lie… which Jews have been pushing since at least 1823.

    THAT is what pulls the chair from under sick & violent Zionism and immoral Jew behavior that is recognized as such worldwide.

    And note that Momus advocates suppression of free speech about the fake ’6,000,000′. Only liars want censorship.

    “Alone the fact that one may not question the Jewish “holocaust” and that Jewish pressure has inflicted laws on democratic societies to prevent questions—while incessant promotion and indoctrination of the same averredly incontestable ‘holocaust’ occur—gives the game away. It proves that it must be a lie. Why else would one not be allowed to question it? Because it might offend the “survivors”? Because it “dishonors the dead”? Hardly sufficient reason to outlaw discussion. No, because the exposure of this leading lie might precipitate questions about so many other lies and cause the whole ramshackle fabrication to crumble.”

    - Gerard Menuhin / righteous Revisionist Jew, son of famous violinist

    http://www.codoh.com

  282. Wally says:
    @renfro

    quoted Sen Langer:
    “…among the crimes with which this (Nazi) leadership has been charged (at Nuremberg) is the crime of systematic and mass starvation of racial or political minorities or opponents…. Yet to our utter horror, we discover that our own policies have merely spread those same conditions…I hold in my hands absolutely authentic photographs which have been taken at the beginning of the winter in the city of Berlin. These photographs are interchangeable for horror with the photographs with which we became familiar from Dachau, Mauthausen, Buchenwald, and other extermination camps. These are photographs of children between the ages of 5 and 14…”

    “Charged” but never, ever proven. But of course, the claims were / are scientifically impossible.

    And note that Langer absurdly claimed Dachau, Mauthausen, Buchenwald were “extermination camps”. Yet today, even slimy “holocaust historians” no longer make that claim, since easy access to those camps required a desperate spin job that the “extermination camps” were to the east in Poland, where the communists conveniently made access & investigations impossible.
    But now even that desperate claim has been completely debunked.
    It’s just not difficult.

    http://www.codoh.om

  283. Them Guys says:
    @Skeptikal

    Most if not all of the many info links you tell us to check out, are from the usa holohoax museum correct?…..Which has a very Vested interest at always promoting whatever any jew claims about the main hoax.

    I have a better idea plan about all this endless debate of holyhoax issues and jews agendas on it.

    How about jewry as a whole finally agrees to allow a full blown excavation dig at EVERY claimed burial site where jews and so called “survivahs” claim jewish dead bodies are buried at eh?

    Just drop every phony claim of somehow such a dig exploration would in any way “Dis-Honor” the dead jew victims of the WWII holyhoax era. Because as we all know once dead, nobody retains any sense of memory etc…You cannot dis or offend any dead persons jew or gentile period.

    Then once and for all time, either everything too many to count hoax tales and fables will be proved as truth or falsified totally. There will no longer be any possible debate on weather jews massively lie or speak total truth about this agenda of jewry.

    And this will also cause yet Another Great thing to happen.

    It will free up every debater and actual real historian expert to then work on a quest of finding every fact and truth about, the REAL 20th century Holocaust events of what actually really happened from 1917 and onwards, in Russia first, then expanded into EVERY eastern European nation. Where jewish soviet Bolsheviks butchered, tortured, and massively mass murdered a total of at least 250,000,000 innocent White & Christian peoples.

    That Is the Real main events folks should be very concerned about eh…yes I assume such a truth and fact find mission will reveal that unlike how we all been taught of jews always being no more than misunderstood, mistreated, 100% innocent victims in every place to ever be a host nation of jewry. And of course how we were told of jews bad day in WWII hoax events. Is really of zero or close to zero concern or truth once compared to what jewrys proved guilty of doing as prior mentioned with their invention of communism and use of it to mass murder so many.

    Of course most folks will then view jews in a much different light once such factual truths get exposed. But shouldn’t such outstanding examples of the most moral bastions of humanity, as the self chozens promote themselves as to the lowly goyim gentiles of the world, be at very Top of jewrys list of agendas to accomplish? That being to once and for all OPEN every burial ground claimed to be of dead wwii-holohoax jews, so everyone worldwide can SEE factual Evidence proven by DNA tests of bones and ashes etc…..and Then to move on to jewish main crimes of 20th century of what happened from 1917 onwards in Russia etc.?

    This agenda would put to rest all debate and questions for that era, and allow for everybody globally to move on and ahead with better prosperity and world peace for all folk.

    And if such causes jews to be thought of in a lesser way than current lies and scams have provided them the luxury of being thought of? So What. Isn’t facts and Truths what jews rather have?

    If such causes jews to take a Back seat in the Buss for a change?….Maybe they belong there eh.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  284. Incitatus says:
    @renfro

    “We should indeed be talking about the Jews holocaust of Germans. Specifically the Jew Morgenthau’s post WWII plan for dismantling Germany and starving the Germans. Morgenthau was the then Sec of the US Treasury. His plan was known as the JCS 1067.”

    Why bother? Morgenthau’s dream pales in comparison to Hitler’s nightmare Nerobefehl. Listen to the Führer:

    “If the war is lost, the nation will also perish. This fate is inevitable. There is no necessity to take into consideration the basis which the people will need to continue even a most primitive existence. On the contrary, it will be better to destroy these things ourselves, because this nation will have proved to be the weaker one and the future will belong solely to the stronger eastern nation. Besides, those who will remain after the battle are only the inferior ones, for the good ones have all been killed.”

    -Adolf Hitler explaining his order to completely destroy German infrastructure to Albert Speer, 18 March 1945

    Renfro, why did Hitler order Carthaginian destruction of Germany? He knew loyal “inferior” Germans would all likely die. Should the Allies be blamed for failing to deliver what Hitler most desired: complete destruction and death?

    Was Hitler Jewish? Could that be it? Give us a clue.

    PS. for Wally: „Wenn der Krieg verloren geht, wird auch das Volk verloren sein. Es sei nicht notwendig, auf die Grundlagen, die das Volk zu seinem primitivsten Weiterleben braucht, Rücksicht zu nehmen. Im Gegenteil sei es besser, selbst diese Dinge zu zerstören. Denn das Volk hätte sich als das schwächere erwiesen und dem stärkeren Ostvolk gehöre dann ausschließlich die Zukunft. Was nach dem Kampf übrigbliebe, seien ohnehin nur die Minderwertigen; denn die Guten seien gefallen.“

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @renfro
  285. Them Guys says:
    @Wally

    Wally, “IF” ever jews agree to dig up all those claimed mass grave sites and finally show proof?

    I predict that Momus and his/her fellow jew cohorts will first commission their famous jewish elf midgets, that prior were tasked with using small sized wooden Hammers to pummel and smash to dust every last dead hoax jew bones to better hide evidence, to now be hired again in order to have said elf midget jewish hammer-masters, to go in advance of grave digger crews and tattoo or stamp huge “J” on each dead body or bone found so to prove that, yes see it really is filled with nothing but dead jews.

    This will be due to a huge oversight prior, when every black & white WWII era scammed photo of 5,000+ starved 70 lb dead bodies strewn in morbid fashion within a open ditch grave, failed to reveal any such huge “J” as jew proof tattooed or stamped on those 5,000+ bodies. Them jews telling us it was all jewish dead in those ditches never considered we may begin to ask questions as to why shouldn’t we believe those bodies were not of a different group, say, a group of dead german citizens, or catholic poles etc eh?

    It seems that the more made up tales and lie fables jews invent about the big hoax events, the more fables and lies they must add and keep adding to their tales, in order to cover up former tale lies now proven as lies eh?

    1st it was Nazis quickly burried 2 million dead jew bodies to hide evidence from Farmers across street from Camp plowing his fields, so farmer cannot look past chain link fence and view whats going on in “secret” at camp.

    Later changed into: Nazis first buried 2 million on camp grounds, but had to Then dig up same 2 million bodies and place 2,500 bodies at a time on top of criss-cross of railroad wood ties to burn to ashes all bodies. By this method of 2,500 bodies per burn, it took 4-5 days and Nazis were very lucky to finish the job, and re-bury the ashes just meere moments before Allied Forces entered camp so to libertate jews inside camp. Alas! every guity Nazi escaped capture by Allied Soldiers too.

    I plan to now search out jewish infos on how Nazis starved jews down to 70 lbs from a prior weight of 150-200 lbs on avg, and after starved to death, took the jewish body Fat to make Soap with!

    I am concerned as to what german nazi ss miricle method was devised to gather Fat from 70 lb dead bodies eh? From every photo I ever saw, no such body fat remained once down to 70 lbs.

    My theory is it is another good examlple of Naiz ESP powers to do the Impossible every time.

    My MSM Book Deal offers will fill my us mailbox and of that I am certain, if only I can solve this new riddle.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Anon
  286. Wally says:
    @Incitatus

    Once again, Zionist Incitatus gives us a laughable non-existent quote ‘from Hitler’ about an alleged Hitler order which Incitatus cannot show us. LOL

    There is no original German document which says what Incitatus has posted. None.

    Then Incitatus hilariously thinks that pasting his English text into Google German translate is the equivalent to an original German document. LOL

    Still waiting for desperate Incitatus to tell us how the laughable ‘gas chambers’ supposedly worked.

    Still waiting for desperate Incitatus to show us the claimed massive Jew remains.

    The ‘holocaust’ storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Only liars demand censorship.
    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  287. Wally says:
    @Them Guys

    Indeed, Them Guys, those ‘Nazis’, with the wave of a hand, could magically make the alleged grand total of 11,000,000 human remains just disappear without a trace.

    Also recall that “holocaust eyewitness” Romanian Jew Sigismund Bendel stated in court that groups of 1000 Jews where killed with Zyklon-B in a room measuring 10 meters long by 4 meters wide by 1.6 meters high.

    When asked, how 1000 people can possibly fit in to a room of 64 square meters, he answered, with “the German method“.
    LOL
    see:
    ‘Holocaust Industry’s Roberto Muehlenkamp says “eyewitness” Bendel is proof of ‘holocaust’ ‘

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11297

    http://www.codoh.com

  288. Skeptikal says:
    @Them Guys

    “Most if not all of the many info links you tell us to check out, are from the usa holohoax museum correct?…..Which has a very Vested interest at always promoting whatever any jew claims about the main hoax.”

    I believe I provided two links.
    I was, actually, surprised that the two hits I got from my searches in response to Anon’s assertion that I was making thing up were from the US Holocaust Museum website. The essays provided did not appear to me to exaggerate the victimhood of Jews but in fact reflected much that I have read about, for example, the stresses within the Third Reich arising from the multifunctions of concentrations camps and the many groups of people who were incarcerated in them. And also reflected what I learned as the English-language editor of Auschwitz Kalendarium and also as the child of a Mischling forcibly expatriated from Berlin/Germany in 1937.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  289. Curle says:
    @dearieme

    “One problem with comments on WWII“

    Comments on all history, no? Lincoln ran in certain counties of East TN on a platform of ‘Only Lincoln can preserve slavery.’

  290. @tac

    After watching the first hour of the first of your linked videos, to my mind there can be little doubt that Germar Rudolf is truthful and sincere, and therefore that the author of this article is not.

    • Agree: tac
  291. Skeptikal says:
    @Skeptikal

    I suggest commenters on this thread inform themselves by reading the following:

    https://www.amazon.com/Auschwitz-Chronicle-1939-1945-Danuta-Czech/dp/0805052380

    • Replies: @Wally
  292. Them Guys says:
    @renfro

    renfro: wow after reading this plan, it seems to be way more in tune with how and what should be done to todays jewish state of isreal eh. It would do far greater world good compared to doing it to germans. And no two world jew wars would have ever happened if jewry and zios didn’t cause both wwi and wwii wars.

    Yes far greater good obtained if this plan applied today to Israel and international jewry.

    • Replies: @renfro
  293. @Wally

    - Eichmann claims to have witnessed mass slaughter on a grand scale at Auschwitz in the fall of 1941, where the camp commandant, Rudolf Hoess, informed him that the great, factory-like buildings, the chimneys of which belch smoke, are “working to capacity: Ten thousand!”
    This is months before the Auschwitz typhus control crematoria were constructed, let alone in use.
    - Eichmann talks of Treblinka – but then he’s not sure if it’s Treblinka – where he says gassings were being carried out with a submarine engine (diesel); he claims at places near Minsk and Lemberg, mass shootings were taking place, including one mass grave from which he said:
    “blood was gushing out … like a geyser”.
    IOW, he copied Wiesel who said the same absurd thing.

    Also interesting what the Auschwitz Order Book had actually to say:

    https://archive.org/details/StandortUndKommandanturbefehleDesKonzentrationslagersAuschwitz19401945

    Can you spot a Holocaust there? I can’t.

  294. @renfro

    ‘That’s ridiculous……why discuss what Hitler knew without first proving there was an actual ‘holocaust’ to know about.’

    The same argument could be used to dismiss all Christian theology.

    However, at least you appear to have read my post. Speaking for myself, I find Holocaust denial tedious and not really worthy of continued discussion. The thread is about whether and what Hitler knew and ordered, and I do find that interesting. Could we talk about that?

    Those who want to argue Jesus wasn’t the Son of God in the first place may go discuss that elsewhere.

    • Replies: @L.K
  295. Wally says:
    @Skeptikal

    Really? What about it? Read this entire post and then tell us why you believe such obvious lies.
    Fraud Danuta Czech and her inbound trains? Many of which never exitsted and that Czech lied about them? The fact that there is no proof that those on them were gassed as alleged. None. And that the alleged ‘gas chambers’ were scientifically impossible.
    And of course the outbound records have curiously ‘disappeared’. We know why.

    Yet we know that vast numbers of ‘holocausted’ Jews were in fact transported OUT of Auschwitz.

    recommended take downs of fraud, Danuta Czech:
    The ‘Gassed’ People of Auschwitz: Pressac’s New Revisions : https://codoh.com/library/document/964/?lang=en

    The Deportation of Hungarian Jews from May to July 1944 : https://codoh.com/library/document/357/?lang=en Most of them were transferred OUT of Auschwitz, none were gassed, ever.

    Special Treatment” of Registered Auschwitz Inmates : https://codoh.com/library/document/4449/?lang=en
    excerpt: “An analysis of the alleged selections of registered inmates for the gas chambers as listed by Danuta Czech shows that none of them has any historical documentary basis; rather they are often flatly contradicted by the documents.

    Transfers to the Reich, The Unregistered Inmates of Auschwitz https://codoh.com/library/document/85/?lang=en
    ‘Holocau$t Controversies’ & Danuta Czech slapped silly lies about their Hungarian Jews lies

    http://juergen-graf.vho.org/articles/hungarian-holocaust-debate.html

    tons more:

    https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=danuta+czech

    The scientifically impossible ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ nonsense silences free speech and enables Jews & to push their violence inciting hatred down everyone’s throat.
    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  296. Incitatus says:
    @Wally

    “Once again, Zionist Incitatus gives us a laughable non-existent quote ‘from Hitler’ about an alleged Hitler order which Incitatus cannot show us. LOL”

    LOL indeed! Sources:

    • Fotomechanischer Nachdruck München 1989, Bd. 41 (= Dok-Bd. 17), S. 428 (Dok. Speer-24);
    • Max Domarus: Hitler – Reden und Proklamationen 1932–1945, Würzburg 1963, Bd. 2, S. 2214;
    • Albert Speer, recounted in ‘Inside the Third Reich’;

    Desperate, Wally? Need a heavy laxative? You’re certainly full of something.

  297. L.K says:
    @Colin Wright

    holohoax shill Colin Wright

    The thread is about whether and what Hitler knew and ordered, and I do find that interesting. Could we talk about that?

    No. After all, there was NO holocaust as alleged.
    There is NO supporting evidence.
    There is a ton of evidence which shows that it is basically atrocity propaganda on steroids…

    Several of the most important holohoax historians have admitted, discreetly & grudgingly, that evidence to support the official holohoax atrocity propaganda is very much lacking.

    ..already in 1951, the Jew Léon Poliakov, who had been part of the French delegation at the Nuremberg show trials (1945-1946), stated his conclusion that we had at our disposal an overabundance of documents for all points of the history of the Third Reich, with the exception of one point alone: the “campaign to exterminate the Jews”. For this, he wrote, “No document remains, perhaps none has ever existed” (Bréviaire de la haine, Paris, Calmann-Lévy, 1974 [1951], p. 171; English version: Harvest of Hate, New York, Holocaust Library, 1979, revised and expanded edition)

    It is not just documentary evidence that is missing.. . it is also the material evidence which should be abundant, but in fact does not exist. For example:
    During an interview to the Canadian STAR, 27 December 2009, prominent Jewish holohoax “historian” and Auschwitz ‘expert’, Robert Jan van Pelt, stated:

    We have no material or forensic evidence to support eyewitness reports of gassings…
    Ninety-nine per cent of what we know we do not actually have the physical evidence to prove

    Comparing the “evidence” for the official tales re Auschwitz to the AR camps, the same van Pelt, in his ‘The Case for Auschwitz: Evidence from the Irving Trial’, p.5, writes:

    “The evidence for the role of Treblinka, Belzec, and Sobibor[...] is much less abundant(than Auschwitz).”There are very few eyewitnesses, no confession that can compare to that given by Höss, no significant remains, and few archival sources.

    So, the evidence for Auschwitz is next to nothing – plus there is abundant evidence refuting the atrocity propaganda – but the evidence for the Aktion Reinhardt camps is, according to Pelt himself, even much less than at Auschwitz, which is just about zero. Concerning the ‘confessions’ of Höss though, another famous holohoax “historian”, the miserable shabbos goy, Christopher Browning, in his ‘The Origins of the Final Solution: The Evolution of Nazi Jewish Policy’, September 1939-March 1942 (University of Nebraska Press and Yad Vashem :-) , 2004), p.544 note.169, writes:“…the testimonies of especially Höss and to some extent Eichmann are confused, contradictory, self-serving, and not credible.”

    The above are but just a few examples… and that, shill, is the reason for all the ferocious censorship around the holohoax, the most taboo subject of all… but you knew that already.

    P.S. you never read even one holocaust revisionist book… Irving does not count as he was never a holo revisionist and none of his many books were about the holohoax.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  298. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Them Guys

    Being the cynic that I am, I wondered how the Germans could get fat from 80 pd bodies when I was in middle school.

  299. Them Guys says:
    @dearieme

    Yet most everybody by now must be aware of how, most every jew worldwide brags of how every year at one of the main jewish religious celebration events, I do not now recall which event, those jews recite a jewish prayer which speaks of “Next Year in Jerusalem”……and jews brag of how this prayer desire refers to how one day, the international group of jewry shall finally regain a national home for jews. And how after being called “Wandering jews” and, “The Only people Without a nation of their Own”.

    Will then be done and past for then every jew worldwide will go LIVE in Palestine aka jews call it Israel, and never leave nor allow selves to be thrown out like has happened in every host nation to date, except of course for host nation #110 America, which has not yet enough awake folks to do a boot out as every prior host nation has done.

    Yet what we actually See happen about that desired jewish goal of own nation. Coincides with and proves American Founder Ben Franklin’s page long speech he made at the intermission period when he and the other founders were deciding upon what to include within the usa constitution of the several state in 1789(?).

    In that us const. meeting speech Ben Franklin stated that how even if the worlds nations peoples Gave world jewry a totally Free and Clear Title Deed to Palestine for a jewish state as desired by jews everywhere. That Nothing, No amount of pay or bribes, nor other valid reasons or causes etc etc will Ever get worlds entire group of jews to actually Go Live there!

    Franklin said reason for this is due to jews are a Parasitic people, and same as Vampires and Fleas, no parasites can long exist upon each other…For a parasite always requires a Host Body, or in case of jew parasites, a Host Nation filled with its Euro Whites and Christians jews can parasite off of in order to exist….Which is why we always see that no matter the host nation, at least a full half or more of worlds jews live in and refuse to leave said host nations.

    Franklin also stated that the nations of worlds main problem gentlemen Is the jew. And unless we here now with a once in 1,000 year opportunity to create a new country from scratch, include in our new us const a clause to prevent any jew from ever gaining American citizenship status. Then believe me when I tell you all, in two hundred years from now european americans that are yet to be born or exist, but will, will be working the fields and labors to fund and supply those jewish bankers and speculators in order to fulfill their jewish greed and lust for money and control. And those yet to be born americans will end up losing the nation We men have fought so hard and paid so much in blood to obtain…Furthermore gentlemen, they shall also Curse us in our graves for wasting our once per 1,000 year chance to do it right in creating this new American nation.

    Unfortunately, even though George Washington first promoted this plan for a const clause to forbid jew citizenship, and franklin gave his very explicit well worded speech to second the motion, it failed to pass majority vote for acceptance and inclusion in us constitution when final draft was done.

    Looking at past well over 200 years now one can see just how prophetic and accurate franklins future prediction for modern day americans has turned out eh. He was 100% correct as can be period…America has been basically Lost to ruthless, nefarious, greedy, ungrateful jews that consist of but 2% gen pop at best, yet own and or control all that matters in govnt-society-culture-msm-schools-unions-Banks-and have turned it into a new boshevik jew run monster. And especially he was correct when Ben Franklin said of how, First by Gaining total controls over a nations Money, then use of that vast reserve to obtain control of the nations Newspapers (No radio or tv yet back then), and finally via money plus media press info, gain full control of nations fed govnt. Because jews are like Vampires and a vampire cannot live on the blood of another vampire, a vampire requires Fresh Blood of a real Human, and in this case the fresh blood of a Nation Is its Money for nothing moves nor exists without money.

    PS: Ben Franklin’s entire full page long speech on this issue was fully recorded in writing by the S.Carolina Delegate to us const creation, in his personal journal of events held there. And it was avail to read online at several websites last I checked a couple years ago.

  300. Neville says:
    @HadEnough

    About time someone realized that Jews were not the only ones who suffered in WWII. But talk about the pot calling the kettle black, Jews are responsible for much of the horrors of the Bolshevik revolution and era in Russia. They are also most definitely undesirables in the Christian world. They’ve not been thrown out of whole countries for nothing. Read the slanders of Christ in the Talmud–among other filth. Read Herve Ryssen. Read about the Jewish mafia, the Jewish polluting of Hollywood, of education, “cultural Marxism,” and on and on and on. Pound was right: keep them out of banking, of education, and of government. With honorable exceptions, they are a destabilizing, subversive, immoral and dissolving element.

  301. jelesait says:

    Is there any topic in which Mr. Zuesse is not an expert?

    • Replies: @utu
  302. @Greg Bacon

    Read! No one denied Mr. Unz’ freedom of speech. The commenter merely said he was disappointed. This is typical in comboxes. “Si los pendejos tuvieran alas, taparian el sol.”

  303. I have a tiny bit of first hand evidence to present on the so-called Holocaust.

    In 1967 in Winnipeg Canada the Canadian Council of Christians and Jews sponsored a human rights convention for students from throughout Manitoba.

    To plan this convention select Winnipeg high schools sent a student representative to a dinner and meeting at the Marlborough Hotel once a month over the winter of 66 – 67. I represented Kelvin High.

    The convention took place in the spring of 1967 but at the winter meetings we planned nothing. Instead representatives of the CCCJ talked at us about the alleged murder of six million Jews.

    At the last of perhaps five or maybe six meetings we were asked to write down our reactions to what we had heard.

    What does this exercise sound like? It makes me think of a focus group. What kind of historical event must be vetted by a focus group?

    The alleged murder of six million Jews was off the radar in the late fifties, when I became interested in public affairs.

    The propaganda storm cloud broke in 1961 with Judgment at Nuremberg, the publication of The Destruction of the Jews of Europe and the Eichmann trial, which was the first television news serial spectacular.

    I remember this well because I was shocked I had never heard of the so-called event.

    Five years later I took part in the focus group and then in 1968 ‘the murder of six million Jews’ was replaced in Canada by The Holocaust. Television rolled out the term like a new car model year with a week of prime time programming.

    So what kind of historical event is it that looks remarkably like a Madison Ave advertising campaign?

    Since the term Holocaust (complete destruction by burning) is inaccurate and deliberately emotive, as well as of dubious parentage, I should think serious historians would be reluctant to use it.

    • Replies: @Momus
    , @anarchyst
  304. Skeptikal says:
    @Wally

    It is laughable and not particularly convincing when people use vast generalizations to refute very specific evidence, of which they are unaware and which they cannot be bothered to even check out. I very much doubt that Wally has read the various logs that were kept at Auschwitz and that form the basis for the Auschwitz Chronicle.

    Does Wally read German, or Polish?

    Does he read anything besides the codoh website?
    It is a shame when a genuine discussion on David Irving’s work and his right to pursue any historic research he wants to pursue (which I certainly do not question) descends into a swamp of ravers.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  305. utu says:
    @jelesait

    Is there any topic in which Mr. Zuesse is not an expert?

    Yes. Self-reflection. Insight into workings of his own mind.

  306. @tac

    Thanks for the videos, tac.

    In the last one, the Ryan Dawson interview @ ANC Podcast, Rudolf offered an insight that alters my understanding of why Germany/Germans behave the way they do: it’s more than falsely imposed guilt. Rudolf said that Germany lives with a sword of Damocles hanging over it; in the last century, at least three attempts have been made to completely exterminate the German people. The German people live in fear of total annihilation; one false move, one exercise of self-determination and sovereignty will be met with extermination.

    • Replies: @tac
    , @tac
  307. @Skeptikal

    …It is a shame when a genuine discussion on David Irving’s work and his right to pursue any historic research he wants to pursue (which I certainly do not question) descends into a swamp of ravers.

    The supposed topic is actually Zuesse’s thesis that Hitler intended to kill all the Jews right from the start — but your point stands. The Holocaust deniers have taken over.

    I wouldn’t want to block them from posting, but perhaps they could be metered? Only one out of every ten posts can deny the Holocaust?

    ‘Your Holocaust denial post is number 37 in the queue. It is expected that it will be posted in two weeks. Meanwhile, feel free to respond to the actual thesis of the article at any time.’

    Well, maybe not. But what is the solution?

  308. renfro says:
    @Them Guys

    Agree,

    You should also read this……the Jew plan to ‘transfer’ the Palestines …..you can easily see thru the “humane” solution they claim….its really vile.

    http://www.jerusalemsummit.org/eng/hs_short_eng.htm

  309. @Bendin of Poland

    the Death Marches through Lover Silesia.

    The problem with the “death marches”, such as the “death march” from Auschwitz, is that the prisoners left voluntarily. Do you not find it curious that Elie Weeeeezzzzzel and his father, who was hospitalized in the “death camp”, chose to leave with the “evil” Nazis instead of waiting for the Soviet liberators?
    Polish hatred for Germans is alive and well.

  310. What exactly is holocaust denial? The official story is obviously full of lies used to extort everything under the sun from non-Jews everywhere. If the rounding up of Jews in Europe and score settling in the East is the holocaust, then I accept that both happened. Beyond that, it’s murky, and I don’t care either way.

    Arguing the holocaust is a waste of time, and only serves to present Jews as victims. Participating only serves to put a knife to your own throat by siding with zionists and bolsheviks, or to ostracized yourself needlessly by siding with Nazis. Either position solidifies Jewish power.

    • Replies: @Momus
  311. Caruthers says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    The journalist did not need to know anything about Hitler’s views, yet, according to you, he expressed them to the journalist anyway merely to impress the journalist and so the journalist would understand his views. Yet he concealed them from his VERY top lieutenants, many of whom were also party comrades for many years, because apparently their comprehension of and ideological agreement with Hitler’s aims were of lesser importance to Hitler than those of the journalist.

    • Agree: utu
  312. @Karl

    A frangible, high velocity bullet of the type used by Israeli snipers would indeed meet the definition of explosive, used by any reasonable person with a fair grasp of the English language. You are obviously here with an agenda to misrepresent truth and any honest discussion.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Momus
  313. @utu

    Much of the “extermination” narrative comes from the translation of the word ausrotten, which is literally “out root”. In English, we have uproot or root out as comparable translations. Ausrotten, pre WWII along with uproot or root out, also meant extirpate or exterminate in some contexts. Extirpate does not necessarily mean physical annihilation. Post Nuremberg, ausrotten has taken on the exclusive meaning “exterminate”.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @utu
  314. SomeGuy says:
    @Wally

    The Eichmann interrogation statement is clearly unreliable.

    Perhaps the statements from Table Talk are too. However, my point was that the statements taken together provide significantly more support for a plan of forced removal of Jews from the German sphere.

    So, granting the validity of the statements does not help Zuesse’s case, except rhetorically when statements are cherry-picked.

  315. @j2

    As you are putting details together I presume conscientiously allow me just to nitpick over the suggestion that marching prisoners to the west rather than leaving them to await the Soviets negates the intention to kill Jews as such. There are many possible explanations of which the likelihood that the Germans who were guarding them by then wanted to have some Jews alive to help save their skins by perhaps getting them accepted as OK by the Americans or British or just as proof that they couldn’t surely have been mistreating Jews when they had marched all these ones to safety. So, not your best evidence.
    PS I wonder if any of those marched West were put to work?

    • Replies: @j2
  316. @NoseytheDuke

    It is (more than) enough that the kid’s leg had to be amputated.

    Indeed it is more than enough that he was shot on the other side of the border, or at all. Netanyahu should bear the same responsibility for putting young IDF men in a position to do that as Hitler did for what the Einsatzgruppen did in the USSR, at least after the first well publicised shootings of demonstrators.

  317. @Wizard of Oz

    How should the 97% react to Jewish politics and power? Do you see no problems there?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  318. utu says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Narratives are created by selective and manipulative reading and translating of various and sometime dubious sources. Our Eric Zuesse is dishonest or demented. There is no other possibility. He inserted word ‘elimination’ and concocted a fake quote to imply extermination in a relatively innocuous statement about Jews Hitler made in his Mein Kampf. As the word ‘ausrotten’ is concerned it does not appear in the German version of Mein Kampf that I have just downloaded and searched.

    Zuesse did not make a translation mistake. He is guilty of blatant manipulations that include making fake quotes. His thesis of connecting Hitler with Jesus and Christianity is outrageous. One would think that in some circles his book would be welcomed and that he would get some publicity, nevertheless his book did get zero traction and remains virtually unknown. Even the people who otherwise are not known for moral scruples when it comes to twisting historical narratives ignored his book because it was so bad. His other kooky book about Jesus did not help him either.

  319. Floda says:

    My Mother spent a few days and nights in Auschwitz in mid December 1944. She was a Ukrainian schoolteacher employed by the Wehrmacht as an interpreter. She worked with a small unit of older German ‘soldiers’ whose real task was to asses agricultural opportunities in Eastern Ukraine. In 1942 she married one of these men, a Lieutenant and my father. After an incident involving a young German killed by partisans while taking a Ukrainian girl for a moonlight ride on a motorbike, the CO of the unit, a Captain, shot himself as he was not able to take the obligatory retribution out on the Ten local men and boys in a community in which they had formed many friendships.

    This left my father as CO, the soldiers had been agitating to retreat ever since the losses at Stalingrad. They left and all mechanized equipment was abandoned, including a Fieseler Storch aircraft but they took a herd of perhaps 100 Horses. It took them over a year to cross Ukraine and reach Germany’s most Easterly Upper Silesia. At this point my parents decided to split up and meet again after the war at my Uncle’s home in Halle an der Salle ,near Berlin.

    This left my mother, a stranger in a strange land and losing a terrible war with the whole World.
    She was 24 years of age and six months pregnant with yours truly. She joined up with other women Germans, all fleeing West as the Red army was now unstoppable. In late December 1944 on a freezing afternoon the group of about 25 women including about half a dozen Nuns came across an enormous ‘Factory Complex’ in a medium sized Township. It was clearly a Military facility as its Barbed wire and armed Guards in watch towers indicated. The Women were looking for a place to spend the night, it was snowing lightly and getting dark. Two of the Nuns approached a Guard who escorted them into one of the buildings leaving the others waiting outside

    This was Auschwitz: Moments later a Nun beckoned the group to come inside. They were able only to stay for several days to give the elderly Nuns time to rest. In 1996 my family asked me to write ‘granny’s story’ so I ‘interviewed’ her in Moss Vale, about an hour south of Sydney, New South Wales. She was 76 and sharp as a tack:

    I asked her what she remembered, what was the mood of people, where she slept, what they ate etc.

    Her recall was of a boring place which everybody wanted to leave. She described the SS Guards as old men, some stooped with arthritis but very courteous and delighted to have the Nuns (in particular) in their company so close to Christmas. She remembered having evening meals of Pea and ham soup at a large rectangular table. She also said she had swapped a fine pair of leather boots with a woman there for a Vienna loaf of bread. She was not able to describe the woman. I asked her if she remembered seeing Jewish people there. She said she cannot recall seeing any Jews but that’s not to say there we none there.

    I asked her if any talk of Germany’s imminent defeat was permitted, she gave an odd (but understandable) reply: ‘All the SS men firmly believed the war would end like the first World war, with a laying down of arms on both sides’. That surprised me, poor guys may all have been shot just weeks later. Her overriding memory of it was simply everyone there wanted to go home.

    Of course I asked her the most obvious question: She said ‘Look we were about 25 women, some highly educated, one was a doctor, women talk. We were in no way restricted as to our movement or to whom we could speak, we spent several days and nights there but the SS men insisted we could not stay longer. Not one of us saw or heard anything which would have made us suspect there was something sinister about the place. It was an ordinary work place, they made things.

    Before leaving the Auschwitz KZ Lager the SS Guards solemnly warned the Women to avoid taking shelter in Barns or Stables as epidemics of ‘Fleck Fieber,’ aka Spotted Typhus were common in Winter and had caused the deaths many hundreds of person in the Camp/Factory including members of the SS Families. 

    I was born three months later in March 1945 in a Town named ‘Konigshutte’ not more than 15 or so Kilometers North west of Auschwitz. The name means the ‘King’s small house’. A week after my arrival the Hospital I was born in was destroyed by Russian Bombers. My mother was rooming with an elderly German couple who were ordered by Polish authorities to vacate their house forthwith. They owned a small sedan and offered my mother a ride to my Uncle’s place near Berlin. She declined and commenced an epic journey, again on foot but with me in a pram and towing a cart with some belongings which are with me to this day.

    I’ve heard this story all my life. My mother passed at age 94, she was a tough and resourceful person I am completely convinced the entire gas-chamber part of the holocaust legend is a monstrous fabrication to justify the existence of Israel. Jews suffered in WW2, just like everyone else.

    • Replies: @Momus
    , @jilles dykstra
    , @Karl
  320. utu says:
    @Curmudgeon

    It would be interesting if somebody did the research on the evolution of ‘ausrotten’ meaning in German. In Wiktionary it has three meanings:

    1. to exterminate, to extirpate
    2. to root out, to purge, to stamp out
    3. to kill off, to eradicate, to destroy

    I wonder what did German dictionaries say in 1939 or even in 1947? Did the meaning ‘to exterminate, to extirpate’ was created by historians who wanted to see this meaning in this word while searching for the paper trail leading to Holocaust? When and who first postulated that ‘ausrotten’ was the euphemism or a secret Nazi word for ‘to exterminate, to extirpate’?

  321. tac says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    I get a sense that we are both made of a kindred spirit–refuse to live on our knees (as I initially stated of my own motivations) and therefore choose to fight against any and all odds (no matter the cost). If my intuition is somewhat correct please join me here–as well as any other kindred spirit of similar composition–in order to set the record straight against the persecuted who have suffered in the face of this unjust, but quixotic (yet somehow attainable), and unrelenting persecution merely for voicing contrary opinions to what has been accepted as ‘fact’… In the end, your children and grand-children, may come to view your contrarian activities as an act of courage, defiance, determination, and the ultimate salvation for their survival–this is the ultimate barometer of success of the species IMO!!!–and therefore honor your spirit in the ultimate aftermath.

    You see…we will all die eventually, but it is our actions and stances while alive and for the benefit of our offspring and theirs, in conjunction to our shared society, that DEFINES who WE are. I, for one, will lay down my own life–without so much as a sigh from a whispering afterthought of my own reservations if it may potentially have so much as has a mere potential to benefit to my offspring and likewise fellow-citizens, but maybe this may not be necessary yet. Perhaps I am alone in my convictions, but that is not the point. It is the spirit and fight in this present life that soley determines the character of a being who is simply a gust-of-wind in the scheme of life.

    Let us make a stand against what we know and believe is evil, subversive, and illegitimate because when we stand united and in unison in sufficient numbers there is scarcely a force so united and so determined against our uncompromising, unsettling, unwavering resolve that stands even a chance of energy required to defeat our ranks! What say you and all others…the time has come to make a stand?!?!

    BTW, what is your opinion of this author and this most recent piece (I’ve already made my take this piece very clear in my previous comment)?

  322. tac says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    But you see, and as Ernst Zundel espoused: “Get off of your knees Germany”.

    Indeed, it is waaaaay past the time Germany got off its collective feet and made a stand against this nemesis! There is NO WAY for this nemesis to calculate and foreshadow–and therfore have any suitable countermeasures against the incalculable, unforseen, and random eventualities and/or permutations of any set of outcomes to hold such a sword of Damocles with ANY CONFIDENCE of its confidence of said damage.

    It is therefore incumbent for these people to either make the stand–in the real face and possibility of their own demise–or continue to live meager insigificant lives (much like some low life form like flies) … What kind of a life is it in the end if it is simply a shadow of its former self: see Plato’s ‘Allegory of the cave’

  323. @Karl

    Perhaps a better explanation than the mindset which launched an attack on the USSR is the amazing incompetemce at high levels that the brilliant erratic drugged up autodidact psychopath presided over. Individual Germans were amazing in what they achieved but there were separate antagonistic intellligence services, the drug addict Goering’s boast led Luftwaffe failures, and, not least the almost parallel government that was the SS under Himmler and Heydrich.

    Even after Speer took over the remarkably undermobilised Gertman armament industry the SS remained independent of his complete control.

    Supposing Hitler is only absolutely clear that he wants to deal sometome, permanently, so far as it affects Europe, there was plenty of scope for Himmler and Heydrich to carry out decisions at a Wannsee style management conference. Hitler was enough of a modern politician to know what dissembling was desirable and, despite his numetous ridiculous orders to his armies he could be an opportinist.

  324. @Thomm

    “I strongly suspect that active participation in white nationalist circles is a cover for feelings of personal inferiority.”

    I hate pathetic psychologizing — it’s an actual crutch for weak fools. However, by Roosh’s own logic, what exactly does participation in the ‘manosphere’ say about him?

    Stones and glass and all.

  325. Do not see my yesterday comment.
    What was ‘wrong’ ?

  326. renfro says:
    @Incitatus

    Renfro, why did Hitler order Carthaginian destruction of Germany? He knew loyal “inferior” Germans would all likely die. Should the Allies be blamed for failing to deliver what Hitler most desired: complete destruction and death?

    Was Hitler Jewish? Could that be it? Give us a clue.

    Not worth answering….moronic question.

  327. @ThereisaGod

    I’m not sure what your position is but on one view there is an “own goal” when you quote favourably a report which says “we do know that the Germans are out to destroy Jews of any age unless they are fit for manual labour”. Pretty strong evidence is it not given the context? Technically hearsay one concedes to the barrack room lawyer but weighty nonetheless.

  328. j2 says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Wizard of Oz writes:
    “PS I wonder if any of those marched West were put to work?”

    Assuming they were capable of working they were put to work as there was a work duty in Germany and many other prisoners were taken for forced work.

    “As you are putting details together I presume conscientiously allow me just to nitpick over the suggestion that marching prisoners to the west rather than leaving them to await the Soviets negates the intention to kill Jews as such.”

    No, but the willingness of the prisoners to go with Germans indicates that they feared Soviet camps more than German camps.

    The issue is that in those times concentration camps, as well as POW camps, had very high death rates. In Finland, where nobody was gassed, 29% of Russian POWs died in POW camps of 64,000, in Northern Finland were German POW camps for Russians, they were smaller and in the beginning better manages, 24% died of 9,000. Germans had some 200 Jews in these camps, they were given dirtier jobs, but they were not killed, though the camp manager was a person who was earlier in Central European camps and is currently known as a butcher. In Soviet POW camps death rates were much higher. Very for German POWs returned. We can consider about 27% as a typical death rate in camps in German camps in the Eastern Europe.

    I calculated from demographic figures that 1 million Jews died in Western Europe and Western Poland outside the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia (where Germans shot 60,000) and Romania (in their camps died some 130,000). Of these some 730,000 died in camps and ghettos (German camps 0.3, Theresienstadt 0.03, work camps and ghettos in Poland, 0.17, Warsaw ghetto uprising 0.008, Chelmno 0.1, Majdanek 0.059, Auschwitz 0.06. Germans transported from the West 1.2M and captured about 1.7M form West Poland. That is 2.9M. The death rate is about 25%, the same as in German run POW camps in Northern Finland, from which we have a good study by Lars Westerlund, 2008, Tammi. You may question the figure for Auschwitz, but as it anyway cannot be higher than 400,000 meaning that the Holocaust narrative is wrong, the best figure is from Red Cross, UK MI5 and Auschwitz death books and I use that estimate.

    When you talk about death marches you mean transportation of prisoners from these camps to Germany. You do not mean transportation of Jews from Sobibor, Treblinka, Belzec or further to the East, since you claim that these Jews were all killed. You mean transportation of prisoners to Germany from camps that had the death rate 25% during the war. This is exactly similar to the transportation of prisoners from German POW camps from Northern Finland to Norway in 1944-45 when Finland had made a peace and had to expel Germans out of Finland. We do not know what happened to the 200 or so Jews, but other prisoners at least were taken to Norway. It is quite possible that they were shot there, or maybe they were taken to Germany. Probably Germans took these prisoners with them because releasing POWs in a war means releasing enemies who will try to kill you. So, they were not given a choice to wait for Soviets.

    But the Jews were given a choice to wait for Soviets, so they were not seen as so dangerous and they were not seen as so essential for economy. Then, why Hitler wanted to move them to the East? Surely not in order to create a Jewish state in Ukraine. Hitler planned German settlements to the Baltic countries and Ukraine. If Hitler had planned to settle Jews to Eastern Europe, he would have settled them around Lublin area, as was one plan, but that plan was fake. Jews were to be moved out of Europe, that is why they were moved in the first place. First Hitler made the Haavara agreement that 60,000 German Jews could take their property in the form of German equipment and build some working infrastructure to Palestine. If they moved elsewhere, they lost most of the property. Then Hitler moved the Jews to camps and transported them to Eastern Europe and did not kill them in Auschwitz, where there were all those crematoria, but wanted to take 1.45M to the Eastern border camps, where there were no such crematoria equipment. What sense does it make?

    But it makes a lot of sense if Hitler wanted to move Jews to Palestine and an accepted, even necessary, part of this messianic plan was that 1/3 or 2/3 would die as a sacrifice, to satisfy the orthodox expectations of the great persecution and cleansing with fire (holocaust), as there had to be. Some 1.3M were taken to Ukraine through the Operation Reinhard camps, and maybe also through Chelmno. They were to be taken to Palestine after the war to create Israel. Indeed, Hitler probably thought he was 1/4 Jewish, which is what the enemy of the Jews should be, a Jew, yet not-a-Jew. Benjamite.

    This is my argument and now you say that after having done a genocide against Jews and almost exterminating them, Germans decided that let’s take these remaining Jews to Germany so that nobody will know anything. They did not think that these Jews would testify against them, being so stupid Germans. But as it is that only 25% had died of these western Jews, Germans had nothing to be afraid of. If there was a Holocaust, it was in the East. That is where the Jews were: 1.45M were taken to Operation Reinhard camps and assuming Soviet Jewish figures for 1939 in AJY are correct, there were 4.23M Jews in the East. Together 5.68M. Forget Auschwitz, you have the Jews right here. Of them survived in the SU 2M and some hundred thousands came to DP camps after 1946. We do not know what happened, but assume 1-1.5M were left on the area and Germans shot them. Then Germans killed most of the 1.45M. Then some 0.5M died in Soviet camps. Or it was a bit different.

    Anyway, your comment on death marches potentially being a cover-up for the atrocities is rather far fetched. It did not cover-up anything, instead Germans left the witnesses alive. Where are BTW the remains of Jews, who were burned all the way in improvised furnaces during these marches? I would more like imagine that many escaped during the night.

  329. Bukowski says:
    @igor bundy

    “Oh there is no doubt that the Nazis were evil and they killed the many millions of red army POWs…”

    Treatment of Soviet prisoners of war was brutal but at least Hitler offered to treat them according to the Geneva convention. The stipulation was that Stalin do the same for German prisoners. The Soviet dictator refused. To Stalin anyone who surrendered was a traitor to the USSR and he went out of his way to invite mistreatment of them.

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7627

    • Replies: @FB
  330. Momus says:
    @Gordon Pratt

    You are going back 50 years. The meaning and usage of words changes over time, obviously.

    Holocaust is now the accepted generic expression to describe the failed extermination attempt Hitler’s Nazis made on Europes Jews. It’s original meaning is not relevant.

    Seems pretty obvious even for pedants.

    • Replies: @Them Guys
  331. Momus says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    A frangible, high velocity bullet of the type used by Israeli snipers would indeed meet the definition of explosive, used by any reasonable person with a fair grasp of the English language. You are obviously here with an agenda to misrepresent truth and any honest discussion.

    More un researched rubbish from a known denier liar here to vilify Israelis or Jews no matter what.

    The Israeli riot weapon of last resort- the one used at the border stormings is the Ruger 22/10.

    It is a .22 calibre rifle that fires a low velocity, short range projectile with a soft point. There is no explosive charge that detonates on impact.

    The IDF, arguably the most moral and conscientious army uses this low powered weapon to stop shoot-through and potentially hitting innocents.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Art
    , @Them Guys
  332. Momus says:
    @Floda

    I’ve heard this story all my life.

    Such a touching tale of lies and ignorance.

    Aushwitz was truly enormous; well over 40 square kilometres of snow covered industrial building and camps (and the infrastructure of Jewish death) that time of year.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  333. @L.K

    You do not mention the ideas of Poliakov, that there is no evidence proves how wicked the Germans were

  334. @Floda

    ” They owned a small sedan and offered my mother a ride to my Uncle’s place near Berlin. She declined ”
    Why, completely incomprehensible to me.

  335. @OilcanFloyd

    With my political strategist’s hat on I would go for the weakest spots and maybe try crowdfunding for something like OldTruths.Org which would be designed to clear from public consciousness the most damaging or important myths and lies.

    Few of the rabid anti Semites on UR threads should be involved and any attempt to deny the reality of poisonous anti-Semitism from well before Hitler in Germany would be a disqualification. Exactly who the Palestinians were and are, especially from Jewish or prima facie objective sources, should be one of the background stories linked to on the front page. So should the undeniable origins of Zionism (including early clashes with Arabs) up to and including WW1. It would establish honest credentials by acknowledging that there was nothing intrinsically or knowingly malign in aiming to provide homes for Eastern European Jews within the territories ruled by the Ottomans, especially by buying some of the small amount of freehold land. If it was the fact that the Zionist immigrants provided economic opportunity for an increasing Arab, partly immigrant, population, that should be stated with evidence as a minor truth. I think a fair case could probably be set out for an everyone-and-no-one-to blame scenario (apart from the Nazis violent and/or virulent anti Semitism, the Mufti’s total rejectionism and the more unscrupulous Zionist machinations – I improvise from inadequate depth of knowledge of the ten million pages I would need to read and assess). The British, eventually enfeebled by WW2, could not in the end ensure a just solution – to the extent there was one – to irreconcilable enmities and desperation.

    So we have to acknowledge as facts on the ground that the Zionists took what became Israel by force and that it became a legally sovereign state for the world’s powers that counted anyway. Is there a case for applying well established private law principles to treat Israel on its 1967 borders as other than a legitimate state whose existence as a state cannot be rejected?

    No, I suggest, but it might be at that point one not only concedes statehood and acknowledges that Yasser Arafat’s manner of rejection offers was bad for Palestinians, but makes points

    1. the displaced Palestinians, though it is no longer practicable for their greatly increased numbers to live as peasants on their families’ old lands (leased from the Ottoman state originally) should be compensated, with Israel and its financial supporters leading the way instead of just saying “you lost”;

    2. It is intrinsically difficult to support Israel’s perpetuation of its Jews only qualification for new citizenship while there has been and still is such long term support for open borders for others. This should be just sitting there as a perpetual thorn in a discussion which is otherwise attempting to find new ways to progress.

    3. The settlements and the military oversight of the West Bank and East Jerusalem are morally and legally unjustifiable. Links to the legal arguments fairly stated should be given together with the very telling maps;

    4. The hopelessly bad arguments to justify the recent Gaza border shootings should be calmly highlighted.

    and then perhaps the big one

    5. There is no case for the US to be at war with Iran or otherwise spending American lives or taxpayers money [or Chinese loans!] on ME wars and yet Congress and President follow the Israeli line. Moral: US politics is not so much democratic as hopelessly corrupted by money which, on ME policy is overwhelmingly for Israel. (Without exonerating the arms industry and its crew of well paid retired generals).

    *And so to new friends to our website we welcome you if your verdict in the end is that our American politics is so deeply corrupted by money despite its flavour of democratic rhetoric and that clear headedness on the sources of our Middle Eastern policies is only an important step on the way to an uncorrupt democracy.*

    There’s a start for you. Get it off the ground and I’ll send $5000 as it is in my country’s interests for the US not to continue declining vis a vis China at its present rate. (If the US hadn’t been distracted by the Middle East how could it have been so negligent as to allow China to build those South China Sea islands instead of financing the Philippines and other 200 mile zone states to do so?).

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  336. @renfro

    At the end of WWII Hitler was a nervous wreck.
    In how far the injections his doctor gave him, for years, strychnine one of the components, contributed, anybody’s guess.
    Anyhow, his orders for destruction were ignored, in France, in the Netherlands, in Germany.
    For the Netherlands calculations of the quantity of explosives to blow the dikes were so inflated that Germany no longer had these quantities.
    Hitler then agreed to just opening the sluices connecting inland waterways to the sea.
    They were closed soon.
    That much for German wickedness.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Hippopotamusdrome
  337. @j2

    No, Madagaskar
    Hans Jansen, ‘Der Madagaskar Plan, Die beabsichtigte Deportation der europäischen Juden nach Madagaskar’, München 1997
    The Dutch author was or still is a collaborator of the Wiesenthal organisation in Brussels

    • Replies: @j2
  338. @Momus

    Why lies? That is a word too loosely tossed around on UR threads. He may be naive but where is the evidence if lies?

  339. @Momus

    Isn’t it the best you can make of those facts that, on the first day, the young snipers may not have realised how much harm they could cause, and their part time commanders really didn’t have a clue either? Next time they kill and maim just as many on the Gazan side of the unbroken border fence. How come?

    • Replies: @Momus
  340. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Pretty late to pluck up the courage and plain common sense to behave sanely and decently.

  341. @Colin Wright

    Mr. Wright: Surely you can understand how illogical your post is. You have it backwards. All talk of “whether Hitler ordered it” is completely pointless if “it” never happened. Also, your use of the term “Holocaust denier” is not helpful and does nothing to advance a rational discussion. Why is the “Holocaust” the only historical event to which the term “denier” is routinely appended? Why have many countries enacted laws that criminally punish individuals who question the orthodox narrative? Do you and support those laws? If so, do you believe that it would be a good thing if similar laws were enacted in the US, if it were possible? Why do Europeans not deserve the protections w/r/to freedom of speech that Americans enjoy by virtue of the 1st Amendment to the Constitution?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  342. Skeptikal says:
    @SomeGuy

    “Ausrotten” can mean a number of things, all related but with different nuances.
    IMO the best translation is “eradicate.”
    Which, actually, has the same root as “ausrotten,” namely, to root out.
    It seems clear that Hitler wanted to eradicate the Jews and their influence from German society.
    Not necessarily from the whole world.
    Of course, Hitler also wanted to ban a number of other groups from Germany society: communists, Bolsheviks, homosexuals, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Freemasons, common criminals, etc. Different shaped badges at Auschwitz for each group. I don’t know about the practices of the other camps.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camp_badge

    Hmm, interesting here is that the illustration of the badges is from 1936. I didn’t know that the badge system had been adopted so early. Also interesting is the fact that in the thirties, many people came and went from Dachau and I think a few other “reeducation” camps.

    As for the Jews, clearly, many Nazis saw uses for the Jews and other undesirables (if able-bodied) as needed labor.
    Side note: Unlike in, say, the USA after it entered the war, German women were not put to work in industry and on farms etc. to support the war effort but were mainly kept at home to carry out the KKK (Kinder, Kueche, Kirche) ideology of the Nazis (although some Jewish women were sent to work on farms). This is akin to the idea that the Jews should be kicked out and/or killed instead of being put to work to keep the Reich going. Of course, during the thirties the goal of kicking them out was linked to taking over their assets. Many Jews hung around after their enterprises were aryanized—even being obliged to continue to work in the business to train the new owners, etc.—until they finally understood that this would not longer be tolerated—that they would not longer be tolerated. Eventually, reality collided with a lot of ideological notions, for everyone.
    I don’t consider Sophie’s Choice to be a historically accurate document, but I believe its premise is historically correct: the basic sorting mechanism on the Auschwitz platform was: keep the able-bodied and get rid of the infirm who could not work and would just be a drag on the system.
    But, other camps, other mores!

    Not sure what the point is of Zuesse’s campaign to convince that Hitler always intended to exterminate/genocide the Jews. Can we all agree that Hitler was a kind of idiot savant who was brilliant in some respects and off the walls and ranting in others? There were a lot of crazy zealots in his government.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Hippopotamusdrome
  343. @David Bauer

    Impeccable logic so far as it goes. But surely you have no difficulty with accepting that (a) there was a lot of deep seated virulent anti-Semitism in Germany; by no means confined to lower class losers such as Hitler was in 1919; (b) that, while populations were still growing as fast as sub Saharan Africans today, and life expectancy was short and precarious (of my paternal great-grandfather’s 13 children 5 out of 8 boys died before adulthood – and he was quite rich) mass slaughter was not unthinkable as we might like to think it is now (and was practised by the Germans in SW Africa); (c) Hitler wanted to clean out Europe of all Jews, especially Germany, and, more than incidentally, had mad pseudo scientific ideas about heredity that informed his hopes and intentions; (d) he had truly vile henchmen like Himmler and Heydrich who wouldn’t have had any compunction about methods or outcomes; (e) anyway millions of Europe’s, mostly Polish, Jews were killed in a variety of ways and places because they were Jews, including those killed by Einsatzgruppen and Baltic state and Ukrainian auxiliaries for whom the Germans were responsible. (I remember seeing a program featuring a young German historian who had managed to get hold of, anyway listen to or read transcripts of, bugged conversations amongst German officers – mostly senior officers being held in comparative luxury and freedom in an English country house. The Wehrmacht generals couldn’t help knowing about the shooting and burning of Jews because they were Jews and spoke about it candidly, and junior officers (or NCOs: I forget) spoke of participation. Of course Enigma had already disclosed wireless reports on the numbers of Jews shot so there are lots of lines of evidence for Jew-targeted killing).

    Given all that, and setting aside quibbles about the original meaning of Holocaust or why it has been promoted for good PR reasons, is there really a problem about there having been events that can pithily be called the Holocaust of which it is of some interest to inquire as to the Führer’s knowledge and responsibility? Zionist lies and exaggerations – if any and however motivated – must be irrelevant to the answer to that.

    • Replies: @Curle
    , @Incitatus
  344. @renfro

    All of his “questions” (baiting, really) are moronic. Just like him.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  345. Skeptikal says:

    Regarding the apparent centrality of the word “ausrotten” to the discussion of Hitler’s intentions,
    it seems to me that a more relevant word might be “vernichten,” destroy.
    “Vernichtungslager” referred to camps with infrastructure available to kill larger numbers of people. They were in Poland.
    However, the use of the term to refer to Auschwitz shows the complexities of the situation, since people were killed in Auschwitz but also put to work in the Birkenau and the Bunawerk (Auschwitz III, Monowitz) sections of the camp. I don’t know the details of work vs. killing in other Vernichtungslager, such as Treblinka, Sobibor, and Belzec.

  346. @j2

    But it makes a lot of sense if Hitler wanted to move Jews to Palestine and an accepted, even necessary, part of this messianic plan was that 1/3 or 2/3 would die as a sacrifice, to satisfy the orthodox expectations of the great persecution and cleansing with fire (holocaust), as there had to be.

    In a speech sponsored by his then-patron, Bear Stearns CEO Jimmy Cayne, Michael Ledeen focused on the story of Moses and the Hebrews at Mt. Sinai, when Yahweh instructed Moses to kill Jews who kvetched about returning to Egypt instead of trekking on to the conquest of Canaan.
    The Levites stepped forward to do the job; Moses set them to the task and, Ledeen emphasized, “Jews killed Jews.” Ledeen also reflected that he is “a proud Levite.”

  347. @jilles dykstra

    UIt is not clear to me how strong Zionism was amongst US Jews – only a few of whom were by 1916-17 influential anyway – when Woodrow Wilson led the US into war. (It is interesting to note how much British intelligence work in the US helped to overcome isolationism in the lead up to December 1941 because the relatively Anglophile WASPs would possibly have counted for more in 1917 so maybe there was less pressure against war to overcome). Obviously Weizmann did a good job on Balfour to get even the promise he did get in the Balfour Declaration. Balfour – as would have been the case probably with the usually Zionist Winston Churchill – was already half way there but, obviously dealing in Great Britain’s interests, must have valued some promise of assistance. Getting the US into the war is obviously the big one. Where and what is the evidence that Jews actually were critical to US entry into WW1? You imply that you know for certain. Please spell it out.

  348. anarchyst says:
    @Gordon Pratt

    Let’s not forget another holocaust ™ crutch which is used by the courts to defuse and disarm those who attempt to disseminate the TRUTH about this minor event in human history.
    “Judicial notice” is a doctrine which prohibits defendants in holocaust ™ “show trials” from presenting evidence that counters the claims of so-called holocaust ™ “historians”, EVEN IF THE CLAIMS BEING MADE BY THESE PRO-HOLOCAUST CHARLATANS CAN BE PROVEN FALSE.
    Judicial notice is given free-reign and is used in every case of holocaust ™ prosecutions to keep the TRUTH from being introduced into evidence.
    Monika Schaefer and Ursula Haverbeck ae but two of the latest victims of holocaustianity ™.

  349. @Wally

    Having read that long polemical piece by Veronica Clark – the version of her name that the qualified diesel mechanic was using for that article – I find that she has indeed made quite a case for Table Talk in any of its forms not being a good primary source, but by no means displaces it as good secondary evidence (especially if the various available elements are put together; as to which I recommend careful critical reading of the Wikipedia entry about TT). Clark appears to have no beef with anything about Jews ( her original interest was apparently to portray Hitler as more of a Christian than a racialist) and nothing I read displaces the opinion of people like Speer that the published TT got Hitler’s long boring monologues about right.

    The denial that the usual write up hours later or even the next day largely from memory can be accurate in substance despite not being stenographic verbatim defies experience of the Courts, of attending lectures and of the records of legislative debates where I have seen stenographic records that made little sense shakily corrected from bad audio tapes (or slurred voice) and ultimately got almost certainly right by memory of the substance of what was said. Clearly it could help to have heard much the same thing many times as was apparently the case when Hitler engaged in his monologues.

  350. Momus says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Next time they kill and maim just as many on the Gazan side of the unbroken border fence. How come?

    Why are you asking me?

    I sorted old mate on the type of weapon and ammo.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  351. j2 says:
    @jilles dykstra

    So, you think Hitler planned to send the Jews to Madagascar. Zionists did consider it, but discarded. I will make a simple argument that the destination was Palestine.

    First the hair.
    This is from the article by Zuesse, Goebbels said “that no hair of anyone’s head would be touched.”
    Remember from Auschwitz those piles of hair fumigated after cutting with Zyklon B but never used for anything, no real plans to use this hair in submarines or elsewhere. So why is the hair kept? Next shuffle your Bible to the end-of-the-time prophesies: and not a hair from your head will fall to the ground. This, though other prophesies promise that 1/3 will be burned as holocaust to God. It is just like that, cut the hair, it falls to the floor, pick it up and store, so it does not fall to the ground. You intentionally satisfy the smallest letter in prophesies. Prophesies say the Promised Land, not Madagascar.

    Second, the DNA.
    Eva Brown’s DNA was Ashkenazi Jewish, mtDNA N1b1 is very characteristic Jewish. Eva’s maternal grandmother was Josefa Winbauer and further you cannot get to check if Josefa was Jewish. This means that Nazis could not check Eva had four Aryan grandparents, and there is reason to think she had mtDNA N1b1, Jewish. If Josefa was Jewish, Eva would have known very probably. Hitler had the same situation with his unknown paternal grandfather. According to a family legend Alois’ father was Jewish and mother shiksa. Then it makes sense to marry Eva. Hitler’s Y-DNA E1b1b is more common in Jews, not really found in real German ancestry. Then you take a guy, who looks like Hitler and has this dubious ancestry impose racial cleanness laws and admire blue-eyed tall blonds. Does it make sense? Does is make sense for extreme nationalist to say at the end of the war that let Asians win as they were stronger. But it makes every sense if he saw himself as partially Jewish and with a task of taking Jews to Palestine. For that he found Jewish financiers, not for taking Jews to Madagascar.

    Third, Jesus
    I actually believe what Eric Zuesse found. Hitler thought he had a messianic task, to complete what Jesus started (redemption, end of the times). There is only one task for the messiah.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @jilles dykstra
  352. Momus says:
    @OilcanFloyd

    Arguing the holocaust is a waste of time,

    Exactly. It is established as the conventional history and taught as such in the west even though there may be quibbles over details. It is also Judicial Note in western legal systems so accepted as evidence of Nazi crimes without further explanation.

    If the rounding up of Jews in Europe and score settling in the East is the holocaust

    No that’s not the Holocaust.

    Hitler’s Nazis establishment of the ideological and practical apparatus to debase the German population then forcibly expel, imprison, enslave then murder and attempt to exterminate huge numbers of Jews is the Holocaust.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Wally
  353. utu says:
    @j2

    Too much Jews and too much Holocaust is clearly dangerous to mental health. You and Zuesse see a psychiatrist asap.

    • Replies: @j2
  354. Art says:
    @Momus

    The IDF, arguably the most moral and conscientious army uses this low powered weapon to stop shoot-through and potentially hitting innocents.

    The IDF are animals – you are a bold faced lying animal. The evidence is overwhelming – because of world censure – the IDF needs to keep the body count down – so they shoot to maim for life.

    The IDF is the most immoral army on the planet.

    Israel shoots to wound, not kill. That has led to a wave of amputations in Gaza

    Non-lethal methods, such as rubber-coated bullets, have proved ineffective at deterring the crowds, Yoav Gallant, a member of Israel’s Security Cabinet, recently told reporters. But he said the policy was to aim at demonstrators’ legs to minimize fatalities.

    The severity of the injuries has raised questions in Gaza about the type of ammunition used. Israeli officials say soldiers employ only standard weaponry that complies with international laws.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israel-shoots-to-wound-not-kill-that-has-led-to-a-wave-of-amputations-in-gaza/ar-AAytEaF

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Maintain Hope, Love, Truth, & Idealism — Art

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  355. j2 says:
    @Momus

    “Hitler’s Nazis establishment of the ideological and practical apparatus to debase the German population then forcibly expel, imprison, enslave then murder and attempt to exterminate huge numbers of Jews is the Holocaust.”

    That is a good definition, since then hardly any holocaust revisionist is a holocaust denier, which is quite correct. Everybody agrees that Hitler established an ideological and political apparatus to manipulate the German population and that Jews were forcibly expelled, imprisoned and enslaved. Nobody questions that very many were murdered like by the Einsatzgruppen. Your last sentence can also be accepted: huge numbers (=millions) of Jews were exterminated (=died).

    You still added the word attempt. Attempt to exterminate huge numbers, meaning not attempt to exterminate all European Jews, which would be an attempted genocide, but huge numbers.

    Did Nazis attempt to have a huge number of Jews to die? I think yes. The plan of the transfer included the idea that many would die and the strongest would survive. If the transfer is understood as the messianic great persecution the idea was that 1/3-2/3 were to die.

    The German military knew quite well that a huge number would die in a transfer through camps and still realized the population transfers. This makes the deaths in a sense intentional and in this sense there was an attempt. But my personal opinion is that it was essential that a huge number would die and that it was intended as the messianic holocaust, a burnt offer to God, to explain to religious Jews that the time of Exodus has come.

    Most holocaust revisionists imagine that holocaust denial means something different, like denying the use of gas chambers and questioning 6M, glad that you clarified that it is not so. I fully agree with your definition.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  356. Wally says:
    @Momus

    Poor Momus. His lies have been completely debunked yet he keeps on lying.

    Momus’s last best hope:

    Former inmate, Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape from death as an eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993 interview with a Canadian newspaper, the French-born Peer claimed that he “was sent to the camp gas chamber at least six times…maybe children resist better, I don’t know.” Gazette, Montreal, Canada, August 5, 1993

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Momus
  357. Wally says:
    @Skeptikal

    Poor Skeptikal, a fantasizing Jew citing a corrupted Jew dominated Wikipedia as reference. Hilarious.
    see:
    Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189

    How Israel and Its Partisans Work to Censor the Internet: http://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/?highlight=wikipedia

    Not a single British Bletchley Park intercept of secret German messages to and from Auschwitz and the so called ‘death camps’ never mention gas chambers, killing Jews, or anything holocaust-like. There are many which do mention transporting Jews out of these labor camps.
    Also note that the outbound train records which were kept have disappeared while the inbound records have not. Who benefits?

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.info/decrypts/ww2decrypts.html

    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7581

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  358. Heresey says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    The collaboration of leading Zionists with the Third Reich- especially in the context of “revisionist history” – needs to be pointed out here (Zuesse commented on June 16: “There is a deep kinship between zionism and the Nazi Party“) >>>

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2014/02/24/zionism-in-the-age-of-the-dictators/

    (the whole book is available online; see also Lenni Brenner’s “51 documents” and Alison Weir’s work)

    “Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our time is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the ‘Freedom Party’ (Tnuat HaHerut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties….They have preached an admixture of ultranationalism, religious mysticism and racial superiority… it is imperative that the truth about Mr Begin and his movement be made known in this country.

    (excerpt from a letter (endorsed by Albert Einstein and Hannah Arendt among others) published in the NYT in December 1948, but still relevant …)

    http://wilsonweb.physics.harvard.edu/NYTimes1948.html

    The massive suffering and dying in concentration camps (and mass executions of helpless people- even if it were less than 6 million and not with Zyklon-B) is one horrible thing to contemplate, the political exploitation of this organised cruelty (even decades later) another … a profound analysis of the psychopathology of Zionism (and how the “Holocaust” was abused for political purposes) can be found in Joel Kovel’s book: Overcoming Zionism

    The crimes against humanity that the Zionist state has committed against the Palestinians (for 70 yrs…supported by Britain and the US) are in a sense worse than the crimes of the Third Reich precisely because they have abused the image of the “Holocaust” to maintain the illusion of moral absolutism and intimidate all critics of their inhumane policies with the “anti-semite” stigma …

    Gandhi wrote in 1938 about “the Jews in Palestine” (shortly after “Kristallnacht” in Germany):

    [Hitler] is propounding a new religion of exclusive and militant nationalism in the name of which any inhumanity becomes an act of humanity to be rewarded here and hereafter.

    The recent remarks by Israeli politicians and the IDF about the mass-murder of demonstrators in Gaza show that Gandhi’s observations (then) perfectly describe what Israel has been doing for decades, especially now in Gaza:

    The inhumanity (to harrass and kill unarmed people who live under disastrous conditions in a giant prison or under apartheid-rules in the West Bank/Jerusalem) becomes something “to be rewarded”, a noble action: “the right to defend ourselves”, “security” against “Hamas”-terror, etc.

    Gandhi also wrote:

    Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs. What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct. [...] Surely it would be a crime against humanity to reduce the proud Arabs so that Palestine can be restored to the Jews partly or wholly as their national home. The nobler course would be to insist on a just treatment of the Jews wherever they are born and bred.

    https://www.countercurrents.org/pa-gandhi170903.htm

    Regarding the personal attitudes / prejudices of Mr. Irving (who did not deserve to go to prison but should not be regarded as a “hero” either):

    I have not read his books (only excerpts from the Hitler e-book) but in his interview (published here recently) he used the following expression to describe the color of a Rolls-Royce he had bought with the money of one “best-selling” book: “nigger-brown

    He also talked about the premature death of his first-born daughter and mentioned in passing that her second name was “Victoria” because she was born on the day when the fascist General Franco took control of Spain, so for him this was a day to celebrate … (Irving’s wife is Spanish)

  359. anon[341] • Disclaimer says:
    @renfro

    I’m afraid you’ve caught ADD from the the Beefsteak man. Incitatus is clearly one of the 5- 10 smartest, best read and most lucid of regular commenters.

    • LOL: L.K
    • Replies: @renfro
  360. @Art

    As it is clearly unnecessary to inflict such violence at the Gaza border to protect Israel’s security only one rational conclusion appears possible. Israel’s government has made a calculation and consequent bet that inflicting hardship on Gaza residents as savage as they can get away with will eventually lead to Hamas being overthrown or transformed from within (almost certainly with violence) so that some sort of peace deal can be imposed – or another 15 years or so of negotiations spun out while the West Bank and Jerusalem are made unviable for a single Palestinian polity.

    • Replies: @Momus
    , @Art
  361. Josecanuc says:
    @Thomm

    Every time I read your closing sentence it makes me laugh. One of the finest and funniest and most perceptive replies I ever read. The Real American reasoned your comment triggered Reg Caesar’s astute reply and instead of going to his front door and scolding him he unwisely knocked on your door.

  362. Them Guys says:
    @Momus

    I doubt that for Most people the word “Momus” will have any changes in what they think even a hundred years from now.

  363. @Momus

    With less goodwill I would be calling you disingenuous. But maybe you forgot that you were clearly defending the morality of the shooters. I even re-read it for signs of irony and couldn’t find them.

    • Replies: @Momus
  364. Skeptikal says:
    @Wally

    “Poor Skeptikal, a fantasizing Jew citing a corrupted Jew dominated Wikipedia as reference. Hilarious.”

    I am well aware of a number of ways that Wikipedia entries are compromised.
    However, the illustration shown in Wikipedia dates from 1936 and obviously is a German source. So, I suspect not a product of Zionist tampering of some kind.
    A Google search of “Concentration Camp badges” gets a number of hits of this particular illustration and of others that provide the same info. Are you, Wally, actually asserting that this badge info is incorrect? Do you speak German and read Fraktur, so you know what the labels say, and you know that they are lies?
    As far as I can tell the source of the graphic shown at Wiki is a document held in the collection of the Dachau Camp Museum.

    The fact of the matter is that the existence of these many labels would seem to support a number of your own arguments, such as they are. So, I think you are the one who is “hilarious.”

    As for my being a fantasizing Jew, or any kind of Jew—that is really hilarious!!
    As for the use of such a silly ad hominem as an argument/rebuttal, that is merely pathetic.

    • Replies: @Wally
  365. @j2

    Did you read the mentioned book ?
    If not, what are you talking about ?

  366. Momus says:
    @Wally

    Former inmate, Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape from death as an eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993 interview with a Canadian newspaper, the French-born Peer claimed that he “was sent to the camp gas chamber at least six times…maybe children resist better, I don’t know.” Gazette, Montreal, Canada, August 5, 1993

    Benthic Wally It’s clearly bullshit. Children have a higher lung surface area to body volume than adults and died more quickly from Nazi gassing.

    You are doing the serious Holocaust historians a favour, and agreeing with the thoughtful Holocaust students by basing your case, including the 6/5/11 garbage, on decades out dated propaganda.

    • Replies: @Wally
  367. @j2

    Einsatzgruppen, Butz questions them, so do I.
    Just read
    Léon Poliakov, ‘Bréviaire de la Haine, Le IIIe Reich et les Juifs’, 1951, 1974, Paris
    Arthur R. Butz, ´The hoax of the twentieth century, The case against the presumed extermination of European Jewry’, Costa Mesa CA, 1977, 1989
    One just has to read Poliakov, Butz describes how the confessions of twelve of the assumed 1000 members of these groups were attained.
    How on earth the reports of these killings were send around in 100 copies, it defies all imagination.

    The Germans accused of the Malmedy killing of USA POW’s all became impotent as result of the interrogations.
    Höss confessed to gas chambers after he was promised that his life would be spared if he confessed.
    The Auschwitz under commander caught in the sixties denied the gas chambers, the trial did not take place, he suddenly died in prison, as Milosevitch, BTW.

    Anyhow, according to Poliakov one Gruppe consisted of 50 to a 100 men.
    In his book he several times writes sentences as ‘all 40.000 jews were executed’.
    Just think about it, how fifty men executed and buried 40.000.
    Pictures of these executions also are flabbergasting, Wehrmacht soldiers in long leather coats with rifles, killing a long line of willing victims.
    The escaped officers in WWII from a POW camp, maybe a hundred, were mowed down with machine guns.

    Churchill in WWII had a propaganda studio in Canada.
    The chart FDR used to explain, in his fireside chats, German plans to conquer the world, from this studio, I suppose
    Thomas E. Mahl, ‘Desperate deception, British covert operations in the United States 1939-44’, Dulles, Virginia, 1998
    So I’m sceptical about any WWII picture of German atrocities.

    • Replies: @Wally
  368. Momus says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    With less goodwill I would be calling you disingenuous. But maybe you forgot that you were clearly defending the morality of the shooters. I even re-read it for signs of irony and couldn’t find them.

    I cleared up an error of fact, as an expert witness would testify. You are impugning my motive to suit your projection. No moralising in that dispassionate comment.

    Civilian police forces routinely use much more deadly weapons at much closer range than the Israeli’s rabbit loads.

  369. Momus says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    As it is clearly unnecessary to inflict such violence at the Gaza border to protect Israel’s security only one rational conclusion appears possible.

    It is clearly necessary for Israel to protect her borders. Hamas who runs the show in Gaza is a declared terrorist organisation who has killed thousands of Israeli civilians and in the best Nazi fashion has debased it’s population and taught them that it is their high duty to murder Israelis.

    The fence assaults were part of a coordinated plan to break into a Sovereign nation and cause murder and mayhem. If the Israelis had not acted at the border they would have been forced to kill many more after it was breached.

    The IDF is superbly lawyered and diplomatically reinforced and it’s self defense is always the minimum to safely control the situation. They started with social media information, dropped leaflets, used loudspeakers, arrayed them selves, dropped more paer leaflets warning what would happen and so on.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  370. Them Guys says:
    @Momus

    Momus You LIE! The IDF typically use a Colt AR type rifle, only Unlike a civilian semi-auto model americans own, IDF model is the M-16 type or may be now called a newer model name, but either way it usually has Three select fire options. #1 Semi auto mode= One shot per Pull of trigger. #2= Fires Three Round Burst in rapid succession, per one trigger pull, and #3= Fires in FULL AUTO aka Machine gun.

    AND the Bullet Caliber is NOT a “Ruger-10/22 small .22 cal.” round typical of a 10-12 year old boys very first gun or rifle owned here in usa….Used for Plinking at targets and to Hunt Very Small Game.

    Rather that IDF Bullet they use/fire at unarmed & Innocent persons/crowds/tiny babies/old women/disabled of all ages and genders. That IDF bullet IS a .223 Military round.

    It has a typical avg bullet velocity(speed) as it exits barrel of aprox. 3,200-3,400 FT per Second!!!

    And it has a Foot Pounds of energy Impact of about, 1,250+ FT. Lbs.

    Which when compared to say the Very Powerfull and made famous handgun in eastwoods Dirty Harry movies, the Smith & Wesson, Model 29, with a 4 in long barrel,(like one of Mine I own) or a 6 in barrel like Dirty Harry used in movies, Both fire a .44-Magnum Bullet, with a bullet weight typically of the main standard one that is 240 Grains in weight…

    That .44 Magnum 240 Gr. Weight Bullet fired from said S&W-Mod. 29 handgun has a bullet velocity(speed) of aprox. 1,000 ft. per sec. to as high as 1,400 Ft per sec, depending upon type of and amount of gun powder load it contains.

    And when a .44 Mag 240 grain lead bullet is fired, which would be at Lower end of speed and impact scale….The Foot pound impact pressure is aprox. 950 to 1,000 FT Lbs.

    NOW, when that .44 mag which was worlds Most powerfull Handgun Load avail, untill a few years ago when even more powerfull rounds and handguns were invented, like say, a S&W Mod 500.

    Is compared to an IDF .223 AR/M-16 Bullet a HUGE difference in both bullet velocity and impact is obtained. IDF .223 Bullets speed to target of unarmed innocent kids etc at aprox, 3200 to 3,400 FT per Sec. and….Wait for it idotic loser momus…..Has on avg an Impact of close to 1,300 FT Lbs.

    And due to bullet design/weight of 55 to 62 Gr’s….But traveling at such massive high speed, that IDF fired bullet hit within 300 Yards range does far greater body damages than even the .44 Mag will cause at as close range hit as, aprox 50-100 feet distance on same human body.

    I have owned more firearms that you can count, and maintain quite an efficient number at all times, I Carry a .45 Kimber Tach II handgun CCW style everywhere I go and always. And I have done so for 20-yrs now…..I know of what I write here. Many others here likely do also on issue of firearms eh….While Momus You know crap or Lie or prob. Both!

    IDF Don’t use a ruger or other make .22 rifle round period…Maybe in certain training excersizes, or other circumstances it has limited used….But daily Carry and use of IDF rifles are M-16 Full auto capable, or various Israeli made Powerfull rifles. Of same or similar bullet calibers……

    ALSO!! From various/several Yutube Videos with IDF snipers on that Hill, the rifle some, maybe many idf snipers have look Very Much like a Barret Manufactured, .50 Cal. Specialty Weapon Made for Long distance sniper use.

    Which means if I am correct, and IDF snipers are fireing a Barret or other brand of, .50 Cal bullet.

    That changes things tremendously….The Barret rifle fires EXACT Same .50 Cal. Bullet as was used in WWII, it weighs 750 Grains! thats Over one Tenth of a pound! (7,000 grains per pound).

    And when fired from either a WWII “Ma Duce” Top of Tank style Machine Gun, Or fired from a Barret Rifle, the 750 gr. bullet travels at velocity/speed of an avg of aprox. 2,700 to 3,000+ Ft per sec.!!!…..Which creates an Foot Pounds per Sq Inch Impact of around 13,500 Ft Lbs impact on a human body…..It can litterally Cut a person in Half, or Rip off a man size Leg or Arm!

    Barret .50 Cal are being used on reg basis by american and British snipers in Iraq and other mid east conflict zones…..The Range of so far, worlds longest Head shot Hit was fired by a British sniper a few years ago, fired from a Barret rifle, at distance of aprox….1+3/4 Mile!!

    That is One and Three Quarters of a Mile away from target head shot hit!

    But, a barret .50 cal can be and is typically used at far closer targets…Like IDF targeting small kids and adults and Nurses/Doctors well Marked with HUGE Red Cosses acros Backs and Chests vests.

    If IDF aint using a .50 Cal rifle, it is very likely a Lapua .338 Cal round that is very close in all aspects to a barret .50 cal. but has a Bit less recoil for operator(sniper or, idf murderers) felt recoil.

    Now take this accurate truth info on firearms etc and stick your head back into nuttyahoos jewish ass eh….

    ps: If an red carpet award was handed out here at unz for biggest and most arrogant Liar on forum, momus would win it, hands down bar none period, end of story no possible other competition for a Liar award than it be awarded to momus.

    • Replies: @Momus
  371. Karl says:
    @Floda

    328 Floda > a monstrous fabrication to justify the existence of Israel

    i completely sympathize with your testimony.

    i just want you to be aware that in 1883, Eliezer Ben-Yehuda opened Jerusalem’s first Hebrew-speaking kindergarden at the Alliance Israelite school, for the express purpose of laying the foundation stones of the revival of a Hebrew-speaking republic

    The Hebrew Language Academy in Jerusalem has a very good collection of his original papers. You might enjoy a visit. They have a small building on the campus of Hebrew University. Parking a rental car is possible, but you’d probably find it easier to just ride a taxi.

  372. Wally says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Must read here on the Einsatzgruppen:

    The Einsatzgruppen Trial
    By John Wear

    https://codoh.com/library/document/5515/?lang=en

    former Einsatzgruppen Members Reject Bizarre Claims of Mass Shootings / Babi Yar, etc.

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11396

    !! Excavation Result: No Enormous Human Remains as Alleged at Babi Yar !! … of
    course

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11314

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  373. Wally says:
    @Momus

    There we have it, Zionist Momus accepts that Zionist Moshe Peer survived SIX gassings ! LOL
    And do note that Momus has been unable to refute any of the ‘holocau$t’ scam busting information I have posted in this thread.
    more:
    rooftop of crematorium no. 2 at Auschwitz / alleged ‘gas chamber’
    Taken January/February 1943 where there are no little ‘chimneys’ / columns for the alleged insertion of Zyklon-B / cyanide.
    The ‘chimneys’ / columns are claimed to have been ca. 2 feet high. The snow is 2-3 inches high. According to Auschwitz “expert” Robert Jan Van Pelt, the ‘chimneys’ / insertion columns, which were said to protrude out from the roof, were added as an adaptation in August, 1942.

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  374. Svigor says:

    According to Adolf Eichmann, Chief of the Bureau for Jewish Affairs at the Reich Security Headquarters, in his 1983 Eichmann Interrogated (p. 75), it was in August or September 1941 that his boss “Heydrich sent for me. I reported. … He began with a little speech, then said, ‘The Führer has ordered physical extermination.’ These were his words. … The Führer had ordered the physical extermination of the Jews.”

    This may go to establishing Hitler’s responsibility for the Holocaust, but it does nothing to establish the validity of the charge itself. It’s like trying to prove a city has burned down based on something someone wrote in his diary.

    That said, how does one reconcile the two conflicting parts of the narrative: Hitler wanted the Jews exterminated, yet Nazi Germany didn’t manage to exterminate even the Jews they already had interned? It’s a well-known part of the narrative that the Nazi concentration camps were as much slave labor facilities as they were death camps – moreso, as only a few of the camps are now acknowledged as death camps, while (AFAICT) all of them were labor camps.

    Kill a man, or enslave him, these are distinct goals. Kill a man after enslaving him is a third goal, one that still contradicts the goal of simply killing a man.

    Hitler’s signature even appears on the document (630-PS) dated 1 September 1939 authorizing the “euthanasia” of the disabled and other “incurables.”

    Sounds consistent with the idea that the Holocaust is a hoax; Hitler’s signature can be produced on orders showing he authorized eugenics via euthenasia…but not for the disputed charges of genocide vs. Jews and other enemies of the state.

    The physicians had wanted that in writing, and got it.

    Sounds like editorializing. It’s much easier to sell people on the idea of euthanizing cripples in pain than healthy people. It was much moreso back in the days of eugenics.

    The second quoted paragraph does nothing to address the problem I pointed out; if all you have as evidence of a murder is, essentially, a death certificate (signed in wartime), you don’t have much evidence at all.

    Where are the corpses? Where are the remains of the cremated corpses? Why doesn’t anyone care to find the actual forensic evidence for the crime of the millennium? We can dig up evidence of the deaths caused by Mount Vesivius over a millennium ago, but a 20th century murder of 12 million people is beyond us?

    The Führer’s words right before his suicide — his final, supreme, statement of his war-aims — urged his people to continue the war, until victory, against what he held to be the sole real enemy: “the poisoner of all nations, international Jewry.” The enemy for him was Jews in all nations; this also sheds light on why over 96% of the Jews slaughtered in the Holocaust did not come from Germany. We shall indeed show that, for Hitler, defeat of the enemy entailed nothing less than the extermination of all Jews.

    I’m an anti-semite, too. I suppose that’s proof I murdered 12 million people?

    Speaking of, where’s all the evidence for the other 6m people that Hitler supposedly murdered? Isn’t it kind of odd that ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL of these quotes are OBSESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSED with the alleged genocide of Jews, despite the fact that JEWWWWWWWWWWWWWSSSSSSSSSS only comprised HAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLFFFFFFF of the victims? That the other 6m (the ones Jews consider to be chopped liver, scheisse, not worth talking about) were non-Jews? Is it just a huge COOOOOOOHHHHHHENCIDENCE that they aren’t mentioned here? Is there a part deux for this article in the works, where all the Hitler confessions about exterminating the other 6m human beings are quoted?

    Just sayin’.

    However, such expulsion was actually the intention and expectation of Hitler’s finance-chief, Hjalmar Schacht, and Hitler finally demoted him, perhaps for that very reason.

    Or perhaps for some other reason.

    but Irving simply dismissed that by saying: “There is no primary or secondary documentary support for such a statement. This kind of evidence, of course, would not suffice in an English magistrate’s court to convict a vagabond of bicycle stealing.”

    An eminently reasonable position.

    Moreover, skilled Jewish laborers, desperately needed in the munitions plants in occupied Poland, were carted off to extermination centers, in spite of strong objections by plant managers.”

    Why cart them anywhere? They’re bound for graves – where’s the need for transport? All the back and forth makes no sense, in the exterminationist context. Makes perfect sense in the revisionist context, though; moving around people you don’t plan to kill at the earliest opportunity makes plenty of sense.

    How many camps did Anne Frank live in? Two? Three? We know she died in an infirmary (an odd amenity for a death camp)…

    How many camps did Elie Wiesel live in? Three? Only to ultimately survive to write fiction novels passed off as historical ones…

  375. Svigor says:

    Just to be clear: I don’t “deny” the holocaust. That’s not how these things work.

    I find the holocaust narrative unconvincing.

    See the distinction? I don’t “deny” things I find unconvincing. I don’t believe in things first, then find good reason to believe them. I reserve my skepticism for any topic that smells fishy, and boy does this one (i.e., yes, I accept a lot of stuff on faith; stuff that isn’t vigorously disputed in a rational way, stuff that is relatively well-supported and reasonable, stuff that doesn’t come wrapped in “believe this OR ELSE” packaging).

    I don’t “deny” the existence of Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny or Christ Risen. I just find the evidence for their existence unconvincing.

  376. Svigor says:
    @Thomm

    He is way too generous. He says it is only ‘feelings’. I say it is outright, self-evident inferiority of defective whites relative to mainstream whites like me.

    “Hello, fellow Whites!” said the WOG.

    • Replies: @Thomm
  377. Svigor says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    The goal of finding some place to “visit” that doesn’t have a 100% chance of deporting you back into the fire would seem a more reasonable, achievable one…

  378. Curle says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “had mad pseudo scientific ideas about heredity”

    Enough of the eugenics movement’s ideas have been validated as science in recent years that it might be time to retire the ‘pseudo-science’ dismissal. Depression, thought by the Nazis to be heritable, is now regarded as between 40-50% heritable. A recent paper on autism shows a greatly elevated risk for inter-racial couples.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  379. Svigor says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    Textbook non-denial denial. Which is fine; it’s your right to hate Christianity.

    • Replies: @Eric Zuesse
  380. Svigor says:

    Doesn’t the deportation of Jewish women, children and old people strike you as difficult to explain innocently?

    This is really what orthodox narrativists think is compelling argument. “You were the last one seen alive with the victim” = “guilty beyond reasonable doubt, despite no physical evidence the alleged victim is even dead” in their minds, I guess.

    This kind of crap wouldn’t even get one American* convicted of one murder, never mind a whole country for 12 million murders.

    *No idea what ideas of jurisprudence are in Europe. Maybe this kind of thing is kosher over there.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  381. renfro says:
    @anon

    Anonymous commenters should be treated with caution

  382. Momus says:
    @Them Guys

    ps: If an red carpet award was handed out here at unz for biggest and most arrogant Liar on forum, momus would win it, hands down bar none period, end of story no possible other competition for a Liar award than it be awarded to momus

    Here you go:

    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/10/21/israel-adopts-ruger-sr-22-in-less-lethal-sniper-role/

    Plenty more verification elsewhere that the IDF is firing low velocity rabbit shot.

    I’m surprised that as a Nazi Jew toilet cleaning janitor you don’t carry a P08 Luger holstered in your rectum.

  383. Art says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Israel’s government has made a calculation and consequent bet that inflicting hardship on Gaza residents as savage as they can get away with will eventually lead to Hamas being overthrown or transformed from within (almost certainly with violence) so that some sort of peace deal can be imposed – or another 15 years or so of negotiations spun out while the West Bank and Jerusalem are made unviable for a single Palestinian polity.

    Wiz — a very astute comment — Thanks — Peace — Art

  384. @Momus

    Please don’t spoil a promising start by sounding like a programmed propagandist. You can’t believe such BS. What does diplomatically reinforced even mean? It sounds like “OK boys, our diplomats have got your backs no matter how nasty it gets. Yes the full proper diplomat who’s an honest man sent abroad to lie for his country”. As for “lawyered” I felt embarrassed for the legal profession when I began reading the arguments in the relevant recent case in Israel.

    To get through the fence someone would need to cut a lot of wire with clearly visible tools or lay something like bangalore torpedoes and blow up the fence. Conceding that it wasn’t necessary to allow the burglar to break in before shooting him and that shooting someone non fatally would be acceptable once he had touched wirecutters to the fence or made ready to blow up the fence after tear gas had failed to deter where is your evidence for anything like those preconditions?

    The lawyering by the way would have been, from my brief glance at the arguments in court, technical ones based on international law as counsel attempted to expound it and had nothing to do with the common sense morality of the law of self defence as a defence to homicide except by coincidence. How can any sensible person honestly think that it was necessary for saving lives to shoot as the IDF did? And it doesn’t seem to be stupidity or inattention by government as in the case of the shooting up of everyone on the Turkish yacht off Gaza instead of despairinglytangling its propeller and pushing or towing it 50 miles offshore. The shootings were deliberate, rational (I presume), and calculated by government, from which I can only conclude that the long term reason for it is to try and bring down Hamas as offering the best hope of ultimate peace. If I were an Israeli minister I might, despairingly, conclude that there was no alternative.

    • Replies: @Momus
  385. Incitatus says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “I remember seeing a program featuring a young German historian who had managed to get hold of, anyway listen to or read transcripts of, bugged conversations amongst German officers – mostly senior officers being held in comparative luxury and freedom in an English country house. The Wehrmacht generals couldn’t help knowing about the shooting and burning of Jews because they were Jews and spoke about it candidly, and junior officers (or NCOs: I forget) spoke of participation…”

    You have a good memory. Was he Sönke Neitzel? ‘Tapping Hitler’s Generals: Transcripts of Secret Conversations, 1942-1945’, London: Frontline, 2007?

    If so, the venue was Trent House in North London, where captive German officers were secretly recorded freely speaking amongst themselves without attendants. One such was General Dietrich von Choltitz, commander of Paris who refused Hitler’s order to destroy the city and surrendered it intact 25 Aug ’44. He served am Ost prior to being posted to Paris. His words (29 Aug ’44):

    “The worst job I ever carried out – which however I carried out with great consistency – was the liquidation of the Jews. I carried out this thoroughly and entirely.”

    Choltitz later (to his credit) added:

    “We all share the guilt. We went along with everything, and we half-took the Nazis seriously instead of saying “to hell with you and your stupid nonsense”. I misled my soldiers into believing this rubbish. I feel utterly ashamed of myself. Perhaps we bear even more guilt than these uneducated animals.”

    Wolfram Wette’s ‘The Wehrmacht’ documents institutional racism and criminal complicity. Many – not just the SS – knew about and helped in mass killing. Richard Rhodes ‘Masters of Death’ (the Einsatzgrüppen) is also valuable. Raul Hilberg’ ‘Destruction of the European Jews’ (Three Volumes). Gitta Sereny (‘Into that Darkness’, ‘Albert Speer’). There are dozens of other sources. Chilling indeed.

    Choltitz deserved great credit for saving Paris at risk of his own life. His candor on secret tapes understandably cancelled approbation. He died in ’66. Few others had such candor.

    All of this is to say yes, the Shoah happened. The evidence is overwhelming.

    Words from the perpetrators themselves – understandably rare after the Allies warned crimes would be prosecuted and unconditional surrender demanded – prove it.

  386. I’m no Holocaust denier!

    I don’t deny any of the Holocausts Israel is responsible for.

  387. @j2

    Can you please post a link to your website?

    • Replies: @j2
  388. Incitatus says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    All of his “questions” (baiting, really) are moronic. Just like him [Incitatus].

    Golly, Mighty BM is back! What a treat! Correct me if I’m wrong:

    • “Baiting” makes you and fellow Bund members feel better about being unable to answer simple questions (e.g. why did Hitler order the destruction of Germany?) as you hold your nose and pump out the same sewerage;

    • “Moronic” is condemnation of those unwise enough to question your silly posts;

    Still working on your “involuntary assisted suicide” defense of Aktion T4? Something Galen and fellow Germans shut down?

    Yes, take a deep breath. No question it’s complex. Surely you’re up to it. Maybe Wally can help? What’s his hot-line number? 1-800-Dail-A-Nazi? Certainly a few more ‘it never happened’, ‘provide the original German’, ‘parse the original German’, ‘deny the original German’, [irrelevant cartoons and pictures], ‘they were traitors’, ‘everybody kills traitors’, ‘you’re a Zionist’ and ‘you’re a Jew’ directed towards me will help you feel better.

    More important, it’ll help Wally keep his job. That’s the most important thing, isn’t it?

    No need to thank me Wally.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  389. Allan says:

    Thank you, Eric Zuesse, for your hypocritical miniscreed. Now I will return to my copy of Hitler’s War by the evil meanie “Aryan” (“i.e., pureblood Christian”) David Irving.

    You can, if you like, download a fresh copy from http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/Hitler/index.html. If not, recall nonetheless a headline which appeared in the Daily Express and is depicted on p. 9 of Irving’s book:

    JUDEA DECLARES WAR ON GERMANY
    Jews Of All The World Unite In Action

    The photograph of the Daily Express is accompanied by the remark,

    An unpromising start: On March 24, 1933 international Jewish organisations proclaim ‘war’ on Hitler’s Germany

    1933.

    Jistc

    • Replies: @Art
  390. Never forget!!

    9-11 – ISRAEL DID IT:
    — (https://wikispooks.com/wiki/9-11/Israel_did_it ]

    Never forget!!

    • Replies: @Momus
  391. Bukowski says:

    David Irving has been banned from entering Australia since 1993 because of his views on WW2. The Keating government enacted the ban then in 1996 the newly elected Howard government kept it in place and Irving has been banned ever since. These are the same politicians who like to lecture other countries on human rights – China, Iran, Zimbabwe, etc – yet they don’t even believe in the right to free speech. These same politicians in Australia had said only a few years earlier that free speech was sacrosanct in light of Salman Rushdie and his book The Satanic Verses. What a bunch of hypocrites and frauds they turned out to be.

    https://codoh.com/library/document/2417/

    https://codoh.com/library/document/2464/

  392. Art says:
    @Allan

    An unpromising start: On March 24, 1933 international Jewish organisations proclaim ‘war’ on Hitler’s Germany

    What year did international Jewry declare war on America. 1948?

    The one sided war is in full bloom – but the American people do not yet know it.

    That knowledge is coming.

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Art

  393. @EliteCommInc.

    this ” holocaust” was pushed by the usa after ww2. the reasons for the usa is geopolitics. the reasons for the jews is obvious.

    think those countries you listed were in any position to deny or fight “it”?

    after 7 decades of lying, think they can fight it now? kekeke :P

    but ppl who cares can easily find it, like most of the posters here on unz.

  394. @Thomm

    This is straight of out of the CultMarx playbook. The Frankfurt School’s most successful and most fraudulent contribution to political discourse was “Our political enemies are not just wrong, they’re mentally defective.” The supposedly “scientifically proven” this in their magnum opus, Studies in Prejudice, a mix of Freudian pseudoscience and questions preselected or discarded in order to obtain a desired result. And your comment fits the template perfectly.

    Once you know about this rhetorical technique, you see it everywhere. The terms “racist”, “homophobic”, “xenophobic”, “islamophobic”, “transphobic”, etc. all imply that the people it’s directed at are mentally ill. In other words, “Don’t listen to him, he’s crazy.” This is a perfect way to dismiss an argument without having to engage it. What’s easier? Using facts and logic to dismantle someone’s point, or just say “You’re crazy, I win.” Apparently you prefer the latter.

    Adorno, Horkheimer, Lowenthal, Bettelheim, et al (unabashed Marxists all) published this fraud in 1950 and it was immediately embraced by the academic community and, by now, this is the standard method of argumentation by the left, regardless of the topic. Whenever I hear this rhetoric, I immediately know who is really the mentally defective one. Like I said, once you know about it, it’s everywhere.

  395. @Incitatus

    Thanks. Yes. There are so many commenters on UR whose brains stopped taking anything in decades ago, or at latest 9/11 plus about 2.

    I see it is a 2007 program. Yes I have a good memory but you ought to try it out on 1907 :-)

  396. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    I haven’t followed the Holocaust revisionism movement for a while, and just became aware of this today. This is a pretty big deal, I believe:

    Eric Hunt is No Longer a Holocaust Denier

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/02/eric-hunt-is-no-longer-holocaust-denier.html

    The following web page (and the entire blog/website) is not available online anymore, but, fortunately, it was archived:

    The End of the Line

    First archived link: http://archive.is/DoGTn

    Second archived link, with additional comments in the comments section: http://archive.is/VHuuo


    The extreme end of “Revisionism” also called “Holocaust denial” which denies gassings and mass murders by bullets is entirely predicated on having the open minded skeptic ignore the most central issue of “The Holocaust”. We know Jews able to be used for forced labor were transited in large numbers through Auschwitz to other labor camps and often survived the war. Their existence is often touted by Revisionists as proof of a hoax, but actually fits today’s official story.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  397. @kikl

    Hitler reached the Haavara Agreement with German Jews in 1933 because he wasn’t even nearly ready to spring the Holocaust. He would need to have been stupid to have done otherwise — holding off “lowering the boom” until Jews were trapped, which they certainly weren’t, yet, in 1933. Hitler was not a stupid person. And, as I shall document in an upcoming article (which Ron Unz just now declined but will be published fairly soon elsewhere), Hitler, on 28 November 1941, told the Grand Mufti of Palestine, that he was first going to wipe out all Jews in Europe, and then, as the very next step, appoint that Mufti and arm his forces to wipe out all Jews not only in Palestine but throughout the Arabic lands. In that document, Hitler also said that the war will not be won until all Jews everywhere have been eliminated. You trust what Hitler said to some rich Jews in 1933 in order to extract as much of their wealth up front — even long before WW II — as possible; you ignore his promise to the Grand Mufti, to empower him to wipe out all Jews in Palestine, and more besides. He lied to Germany’s Jews in 1933, but he told the truth to the Grand Mufti on 28 November 1941. He wasn’t as stupid as you think (presuming, of course, that you don’t think yourself to be stupid for having fallen for it).

  398. @Curle

    I was referring to Hitler’s “science”. Unfortunately, while almost every sensible family tried to practise de facto eugenics – Jews and Jane Austen characters apart from the sillier girls especially – the science wasn’t really science till well after WW2 (apart perhaps from avoiding syphilitics or the Fragile X syndrome as it later became known as examples of the obvious).

    • Replies: @Momus
  399. Mulegino1 says:

    The British did not have recording technology for such clear, surreptitious recordings of individuals in such a venue before the end of the war in 1945. The Germans did, with their magneto tape. So did the Finnish officer who recorded Hitler and Mannerheim in the relatively confined space of the railway car, but not the British. The recording equipment would have stuck out like a sore thumb, and only morons would have made such statements in captivity anyway.

    This reminds me of this episode of the Andy Griffith show:

  400. @FKA Max

    We’ll never know all of the reasons behind Hunt’s decision, although his history suggests he wasn’t entirely stable to begin with. Suffice to say, nothing in his recantation refutes any of the revisionist work he himself did (to say nothing of others), so it’s safe to say some kind of pressure or coercion was employed against him.

    • Replies: @L.K
  401. Anonymous[283] • Disclaimer says:
    @Svigor

    Are you such a confident expert on whatever you give your firm opinions on but can’t manage to indicate who you are replying to?

    You are obviously no expert on the law beyond Perry Mason stories or watching Real Crime dramas.

    There is the law of evidence and there are elements which in the end tip a jury’s verdict or a judge’s finding without being all the evidence. Why did the wife beating stepfather send all of them up to the attic to sort some things out just before he started mending the boiler which blew up and caused a catastrophic fire? You are a dope.

    • Replies: @Svigor
  402. @Mulegino1

    You’re referring to the German officers who allegedly talked freely about mass killings of Jews while in British captivity? Yeah, the whole story is a crock, the fact that even the “jurists” at Nuremberg wouldn’t accept it tells you all you need to know about its veracity.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @L.K
    , @Anonymous
  403. @Svigor

    Another ad-hominem and thoroughly false reader-comment. I had expected better (and far more intelligent) reader-comments at this site. Wow, was I wrong.

    • Replies: @Svigor
  404. Anonymous[283] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mulegino1

    If you know the story of Bletchley House (Enigma etc) you will know that you are talking through your hat. A whole program is made that tells the story in detail and you don’t think its producers – not to mention any financiers – would be conscious of anything so elementary as an error like describing Aztecs using wheeled vehicles to cart their victims away
    Duh! Dopey.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  405. @Eric Zuesse

    What reason did Ron give for refusing your article? Just length? Just curious.

    • Replies: @L.K
  406. Anonymous[283] • Disclaimer says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Was the evidence tendered and rejected? Evidence and properly cited sources or just what you rely on please. As you would know Bletchley House kept its secrets for many years after the war. None of its transcripts were used at Nuremberg were they?

  407. Miro23 says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    First of all I would say that they weren’t secret conversations. They were just conversations mostly transcribed in the evenings between July 1941 and November 1944 (the greater part to September 1942) at his two Eastern headquarters, Rastenburg (Wolfschanze) in East Prussia and later at Winnitza (Werwolf) in the Ukraine.

    1953 edition: Hitler’s Table Talk 1941-1944 with an introduction by H.R. Trevor-Roper, Weidenfeld & Nicolson, London.

    The main points that I can find with regard to the Jews are:

    (145) “Just like the throne and the altar in former times so now the Jews and the political profiteers form a silent association for the common exploitation of the democratic milch cow.” (180) “Although the Jew has seized the levers of control in the Anglo-Saxon world (the press, the cinema, the radio, economic life), and although in the United States he is the entire inspiration of the populace, especially of the negroes, the bourgeois of the two countries with the rope already around their necks, tremble at the idea of rebelling against him, even timidly. What is happening now in the Anglo-Saxon world is absolutely identical with what we experienced here in 1918.” (63) “Simply the Jew has put a religious camouflage over his racial doctrine.” (119) “For my part I restrict myself to telling them they must go away. … but if they refuse to go voluntarily , I see no other solution but extermination.”

    (180) “As far as we’re concerned, we’ve succeeded in chasing the Jews from our midst and excluding Christianity from our political life.” (50) “If I try to gauge my work, I must consider, first of all, that I’ve contributed, in a world that has forgotten the notion, to the triumph of the idea of the primacy of race. Second I’ve given German supremacy a solid cultural foundation.” … “I believe blindly in my nation. If I lost that belief we would have nothing left to do but shut up shop.”

    The relevant phrase seems to be, “For my part I restrict myself to telling them they must go away. … but if they refuse to go voluntarily , I see no other solution but extermination.”

    • Replies: @L.K
  408. Mulegino1 says:

    Exactly! I don’t know why the comment did not record as a reply to- who was it- Incitatus? The whole thing is comical. Yeah, we German officers are going to go around confessing to big “hidden microphones” that we were mass murdering sex offenders?

    In retrospect, the Allies were stupid, since they did not understand that technology would one day catch up with them and expose their lies and propaganda.

  409. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Eric Zuesse

    Please, share the link to that article here with us once it is available online, since I’m highly interested in your research and conclusion. Thank you.

    My personal reading of Hitler and the persecution and extermination of Jews is that he never wanted Jews to be exterminated in the beginning, but preferred emigration, see my comments here http://www.unz.com/article/against-david-irvings-view-of-hitler/#comment-2375796 and here http://www.unz.com/article/against-david-irvings-view-of-hitler/#comment-2375504 , but once the war effort in the East turned against him he was radicalized and rhetoric turned into reality and revenge.

    The Battle of Moscow seems to be the tuning point and coincides with his increasing radicalization on the “Jewish Question”:

    Once large numbers of German soldiers died in the East, I think, he became very angry, frustrated and radicalized and looked for scapegoats, which speaks to and proves his mental and emotional instability, irrationality and immaturity, in my opinion:

    By late October, the German forces were worn out, with only a third of their motor vehicles still functioning, infantry divisions at third- to half-strength, and serious logistics issues preventing the delivery of warm clothing and other winter equipment to the front. Even Hitler seemed to surrender to the idea of a long struggle, since the prospect of sending tanks into such a large city without heavy infantry support seemed risky after the costly capture of Warsaw in 1939.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Moscow#Wehrmacht_advance_towards_Moscow_(1_November_%E2%80%93_5_December)

    This is his statement is from Oct. 25, 1941:

    This criminal race has the two million dead from the World War on its conscience, now again hundreds of thousands. No one can say to me: we can’t send them in the morass! Who then cares about our people? It is good if the terror we are exterminating Jewry goes before us.

    http://www.unz.com/article/against-david-irvings-view-of-hitler/#comment-2375796

    followed by:

    Hitler, on 28 November 1941, told the Grand Mufti of Palestine, that he was first going to wipe out all Jews in Europe, and then, as the very next step, appoint that Mufti and arm his forces to wipe out all Jews not only in Palestine but throughout the Arabic lands.

    This chronology makes sense to me.

    Had Moscow fallen and/or surrendered he might have never focused on Jews to the extent he did once his military campaign on the eastern front started to unravel:

    According to scholars Christian Gerlach and Peter Monteath, among others, the pivotal moment for Hitler’s decision came on December 12, 1941, at a secret meeting with some 50 Nazi officials, including Joseph Goebbels (Nazi minister of propaganda) and Hans Frank (governor of occupied Poland). Though no written documents of the meeting survive, Goebbels described the meeting in his journal on December 13, 1941:

    With respect of the Jewish Question, the Führer has decided to make a clean sweep. He prophesied to the Jews that if they again brought about a world war, they would live to see their annihilation in it. That wasn’t just a catchword… If the German people have now again sacrificed 160,000 dead on the eastern front, then those responsible for this bloody conflict will have to pay with their lives.

    In addition to Goebbels’s diary entry, historians cite the notes of German diplomat Otto Brautigam, who on December 18, 1941, wrote that “as for the Jewish question, oral discussions have taken place [and] have brought about clarification.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/first-moments-hitlers-final-solution-180961387/

    • LOL: L.K
    • Replies: @FKA Max
    , @utu
    , @FKA Max
  410. Mulegino1 says:
    @Anonymous

    A “whole program” was made that was total bullshit. The somnolent proles of Airstrip 1 and Oceania would have believed in NAZI ARIAN SPACE CADET EVIL KUNG FU MASTERS if the press would have published such crap.

    The fact is that they could not have made these recordings surreptitiously because they did not have the technology to do so. They could have bugged phones using bugs and dictabelts. But they could not have used their then current technology to have made detailed recordings of background conversations using such primitive methods. We have one such recording made by the Finnish officer on magneto tape within a confined space. Neither the British nor the Americans could have achieved this at the time.

  411. utu says:
    @FKA Max

    David Irving on Table Talks

    http://www.fpp.co.uk/Letters/Hitler/TableTalk010104.html
    They were expertly, and literately, translated by Norman Cameron and R.H. Stevens, though with a few (a very few) odd interpolations of short sentences which don’t exist in the original — the translator evidently felt justified in such insertions, to make the context plain.

    The Table Talks’ content is more important in my view than Hitler’s Mein Kampf, and possibly even more than his Zweites Buch (1928). It is unadulterated Hitler. He expatiates on virtually every subject under the sun, while his generals and private staff sit patiently and listen, or pretend to listen, to the monologues.

    However Irving did not have access to all German originals:

    http://www.fpp.co.uk/Hitler/Table_Talk/Irving_memoirs.html
    He did provide me with the original German texts of the several Table Talks that I used in Hitler’s War

  412. L.K says:
    @Miro23

    Still peddling this BS, huh?

    Genoud, Heim & Picker’s “Table Talk”: A Study in Academic Fraud & Scandal
    Veronica Clark
    Abstract

    Hitler’s Table Talk is a worthless primary source. There, I said it. And I’m not just saying this to evoke a reaction. I’m saying it because I really mean it. The renowned “Hitler expert” Lord Dacre, better known as Hugh Trevor-Roper, knowingly and willingly engaged in a massive cover-up regarding Hitler’s Table Talk (hereafter TT).[1] Had it not been for the outstanding research at the low cost of just $50 taken up by historian Richard Carrier,[2] we might still be in the dark about this, 64 years after TT’s first appearance in the English language. Sorry to bust this bubble, Hitler and Third Reich enthusiasts, but TT is worthless. In this article, I will establish three things: 1) that Hugh Trevor-Roper knowingly and willingly engaged in academic fraud for profit and prestige, 2) that TT is a worthless primary source, and 3) that renowned Hitler “experts”, both revisionist and mainstream, have failed the public regarding reliable Hitler primary sources.

    …Nilsson’s research uncovered that there is no original German manuscript for TT as it currently exists. The English edition of TT is in fact a mish-mash of Genoud’s French version (which was back-translated into German!), 40 pages of Heim’s notes (which have not yet been authenticated),[29] and Henry Picker’s notes and embellishments of some of Heim’s notes (also for which there is no original manuscript). The only original transcripts we have are a stack of 40 pages of stenographer Heinrich Heim’s notes, which were seized by the Allies and placed in the Library of Congress.

    http://www.inconvenienthistory.com/9/3/4880

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Miro23
  413. L.K says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    My guess bc it is GARBAGE, just like this one.

  414. L.K says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Beefcake the Mighty to Mulegino

    You’re referring to the German officers who allegedly talked freely about mass killings of Jews while in British captivity? Yeah, the whole story is a crock, the fact that even the “jurists” at Nuremberg wouldn’t accept it tells you all you need to know about its veracity

    Indeed.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  415. L.K says:
    @Mulegino1

    The British did not have recording technology for such clear, surreptitious recordings of individuals in such a venue before the end of the war in 1945. The Germans did, with their magneto tape. So did the Finnish officer who recorded Hitler and Mannerheim in the relatively confined space of the railway car, but not the British. The recording equipment would have stuck out like a sore thumb, and only morons would have made such statements in captivity anyway.

    Exactly.

  416. L.K says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    buhaHAHAHAHA

    Oh my, the holohoax industry needs to hire this Eric Zuesse guy!! hahha, a real clown without the makeup.

    Thanks again for the laughs.

  417. L.K says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    We’ll never know all of the reasons behind Hunt’s decision, although his history suggests he wasn’t entirely stable to begin with. Suffice to say, nothing in his recantation refutes any of the revisionist work he himself did (to say nothing of others), so it’s safe to say some kind of pressure or coercion was employed against him.

    Exactly. Besides, his ‘recantation’ is a freaking joke in view of his own videos!!

    The level of dirty tactics used by holohoax enforcers is beyond belief.

    I myself had a very strange experience a while ago that leads me to believe that besides pressure/coercion, enticements & infiltration by moles are also used.

  418. j2 says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Sure, Mighty. Scroll to Holocaust controversy. I made only some demographic calculations to check myself if 6M are missing. There are experts, but then can one trust them, so I trusted only myself

    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/categories-kategoriat/

  419. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    Typos : The Battle of Moscow seems to be the *turning* point… and This is his statement *[]* from Oct. 25, 1941…

    Very interesting and more confirmation:

    Otto Bräutigam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Br%C3%A4utigam

    Christian Gerlach claims and proves that Adolf Hitler made known his fundamental decision for the complete annihilation of the European Jews on December 12, 1941. On this day, Hitler spoke in his private rooms of the Reich Chancellery to around 50 Reich and Gau leaders, the supreme leadership of the NSDAP [Nazi party]. Almost all occupied offices of the State as well. The meeting was announced on the 9th by telegram for the 10th, that day postponed until the 11th and then again postponed to the following day. Heydrich had sent his invitations to the Wannsee Conference on November 29 and then set the date of the conference for December 9. On December 8, he postponed it for an unspecified time. Only a month later, the new invitations went out – for January 20, 1942.

    Even the parallelism of the events gives Hitler’s speech a certain weight. But what weight, when the first invitation to the Wannsee Conference had been already sent 14 days previously? The postponement followed, one could assert, the political confusion that the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor – not desired by the German leadership – had caused. But Gerlach substantiates with convincing details that the originally planned Wannsee Conference had had an entirely different theme as that which actually took place six weeks later. It had only been anticipated to discuss problems that occurred with the deportations of the (Greater) German Jews. These had begun on October 15, under the pressure of the Lord Mayors, Gauleiters and government presidents, following an expressed approval of Hitler, that according to Himmler’s agenda dates to September 17. The destination train stations were Lodz, Riga, Kaunas, Minsk. The difficulties and tension were enormous: they involved the precise differentiation between the so-called full and half Jews, protests from the population for the retention of those who worked in the armaments industry, questions of property, the tempo and priorities of the “resettlements.” Only after Hitler’s speech of December 12 was Heydrich able, as Gerlach shows, to broaden the theme and fix a conference on the “Final Solution of the European Jewish question.”

    https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/december-12-1941/ Archived link: http://archive.is/s1165

    I think this, conclusively, proves that Hitler never intended to systematically exterminate European Jewry prior to the autumn/fall of 1941.

  420. @Wally

    A rather long comment on what happened in Germany from 1870 to the deportations was refused here.
    But in essence it all is quite simple.
    In 1933 jews declared war on Germany, Hitler doing what Hungary already had done in the thirties, reducing jewish influence, FDR was brought into politics to wage this war.
    In 1939 Hitler warned jewry that ‘if they again would start a world war, they might be ausgerottet themselves’.
    The war came, Hitler began executing his threat, deportation to work camps.
    Arbeit macht Frei, work(ing) liberates.
    The Final Solution was to be deportation from these camps to Madagaskar, where, isolated, jews would have to take care of themselves, no longer being able te be parasites.
    Deaths in the camps, mainly the result of the self management in the camps.
    The camp situation deteriorated to more than horrible from early 1945 on, when USA fighter bombers made any transport impossible.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  421. Momus says:
    @Pat Kittle

    No.

    Bin Laden’s Al Qaeda did it.

    19 Arabs who learnt to steer Jumbo jets crashed the planes.

    • Replies: @Robjil
    , @Art
  422. How we fooled the Palestinians:
    ‘Het beroofde land’, Anja Meulenbelt, 2000, Amsterdam. ‘Beroofde land’ literally is ‘robbed country’, it’s a ‘pun’ on ‘the promised country’, ‘het beloofde land’.
    Page 342
    Uri Savir ‘The Process’, 1999.
    Savir led the Israeli delegation in Oslo.
    According to Meulenbelt the book is extraordinary honest, ‘absolute minimum of concessions of land’.
    As I stated, I did not read it.

  423. Momus says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    To get through the fence someone would need to cut a lot of wire with clearly visible tools or lay something like bangalore torpedoes and blow up the fence. Conceding that it wasn’t necessary to allow the burglar to break in before shooting him and that shooting someone non fatally would be acceptable once he had touched wirecutters to the fence or made ready to blow up the fence after tear gas had failed to deter where is your evidence for anything like those preconditions?

    Remember that Israel is dealing with a terrorist organization with a history of horrific, indiscriminatory violence against civilian children, women and men (and their pets) and whose stated aim at these fence protests was to break through to murder Israelis. They are not burglars after jewellery and they have signalled their lethal intentions.

    Given Gazan’s being forewarned over many years of the consequences of breaching the border, those who approached had themselves and the debased, bearded morons of Hamas to blame.

    The Marvi Marmara 6 boat flotilla was organised by ‘humanitarians’ who turned out to be the Turkish arm of the Muslim Brotherhood and were armed with clubs and knives.

    When the the Israelis landed on the Marmara armed only with paint ball guns they were savagely attacked; so they called reinforcements and responded as soldiers do to attempts on their lives. The bearded morons have not tried that stunt again.

  424. Anyone using the ‘Table Talks’ book allegedly quoting Hitler should mention the controversies with that title, especially the English version. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler%27s_Table_Talk

    “Richard Evans expresses caution when using the English edition, describing it as “flawed (and in no sense ‘official’)” and adding that it needed to be compared to the 1980 German edition to ensure it was accurate before being used.[24] Ian Kershaw also notes that the English edition is imperfect, with a tendency to miss words, leave out lines, or include phrases not found in the German text.[25] He uses the original German sources for preference, advising “due caution” in using the English translations.[26]

    “In 2016, historian Mikael Nilsson argued that Trevor-Roper failed to disclose source-critical problems, including evidence that significant portions of the English translation were translated directly from Genoud’s French edition and not the original German Bormann-Vermerke as claimed by Trevor-Roper in his preface. Nilsson maintains that this information was likely known to Trevor-Roper because it was laid out in the publishing contract that the “translation into English will be made on the basis of the French version by François Genoud”. Nilsson concludes that “the translation process was highly doubtful; the history of the manuscript from conception to publication is mysterious at best, and it is impossible to be sure that the majority of the entries are in fact authentic (that is, actual statements by Hitler as opposed to things he could have said)”.[11] For this reason, Nilsson argues that Hitler should not be listed as its author because it is not clear “how much of it is Hitler’s words as they were spoken, and how much is a product of the later recollection and editing process”.[11]“

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  425. @animalogic

    They were often stripped of assets and likely to arrive in foreign countries impoverished – not a great start to exile. Those who stayed were often the relatively poor or those who had assets they did not want to lose and who optimistically hoped it would all blow over.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  426. @L.K

    F.J.P.Veale, ‘Der Barbarei entgegen, Wie der Rückfall in die Barbarei durch Kriegsführung und Kriegsverbrecherprozesse unsere Zukunft bedroht, Wiesbaden,1962 ( Advance to Barbarism, How the Reversion to Barbarism in Warfare and War-Trials Menaces Our Future, Appleton Wisconsin, 1953, London, 1948, nom de plume ´a Jurist’)

  427. @jilles dykstra

    Forgot to mention
    ‘Christianity and the Holocaust of the Hungarian Jewry’, Moshe Y Herclz, 1993 New York University press
    Jewish power in Hungary well described.
    After jews were no longer allowed to work with newspapers not a single one could be published any more.
    Is this why Soros tries to destroy Hungarian culture ?

  428. Eric Zuesse has got one thing right: Daniel Goldhagen is every bit as Tribal as David Irving.

  429. @j2

    Thanks, I’ll have a look.

  430. @Momus

    Allow me to fix this for you:

    “Remember that Israel IS a terrorist organization with a history of horrific, indiscriminatory violence against civilian children, women and men (and their pets) ”

  431. Robjil says:
    @Momus

    Here is what an Ex- head of Mossad thinks about Al Qaeda. He said that Israel was never was attacked by Al Qaeda, so Israelis help Al Qaeda in Syria. The interviewer says Al Qaeda “attacked” your main ally – the US.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Momus
  432. Robjil says:

    The biggest barrier in this H and J game is the “otherness” game. In March 2015, when Netanyahu spoke to congress – the members of congress clapped for 90 percent of the time that he was speaking. Ron Paul was scolded for not clapping enough.

    This otherness game is broken now. DNA results are good way to break it. Most Ashkenazis are the product of Gentile Roman women and Middle Eastern men. This intermixing happened in the late Roman Empire.
    If one needs to clap for a Half- Italian. Why not clap for full an Italian PM 90 percent of his speech too? Why not give Italy tons of money? It would help Italy greatly to restore its many old towns.

    https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2013/10/08/ashkenazi-jewish-women-descended-mostly-from-italian-converts-new-study-asserts/

  433. @Uebersetzer

    There of course many stories of Jews who survived the war in Germany without counting Mischlings and others who escaped notice. Typically I suppose WW1 veterans, especially if married to gentile. Large sophisticated cities safest partly because there were more of the upper middle class and old aristocratic sophisticated Germans who despised Nazis and had Jewish friends. I stayed with a German family of minor aristocratic background who had a big house in Potsdam during WW2 before they loaded up their books and escaped in a truck from the Comms. They told me they hid Jews in their cellar(s) and I believed them – and still do.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  434. @Robjil

    An interesting interview which I think your summary misrepresents. He expressed a general proposition about treating people humanely – e.g. the wounded, though he did seem to distinguish Hezbollah.

    What I found very interesting was that he described Hamas as willing to talk!! Not the line taken when justifying the shooting of Hamas ruled Gaza residents recently. Do you know when this interview took place?

    • Replies: @Robjil
  435. @L.K

    Like Wally you seem to have forgotten or not noticed what Veronica Clark said and did not say. She in no way discredits the Cameron & Stevens 3rd Edition of Hitler’s Table Talk which was the one cited by SomeGuy above. Of course the record isn’t verbatim but as part of the evidence for historical interpretation of events and decisions it has to rate high.

    • Troll: L.K
  436. @Henry Barth

    What about Cameron & Stevens 3rd Edition which was the one cited by SomeGuy above?

  437. Robjil says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    The video came out in May 2016. So it was done probably sometime in early 2016. He mentioned that Al Qaeda never attacked Israel, so Israel has no problem helping Al Qaeda in Syria. So, it wasn’t about humaneness. The interviewer was perplexed and said Al Qaeda “attacked” your best ally – the US. Though, the Ex- head of Mossad had no humaneness for Hezbollah fighters in Syria. It is ironic now that he said Israel would talk to Hamas. Is Hamas another Israeli creation like Al Qaeda?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  438. @Robjil

    Exactly alike. Israel had nothing to do with creating either. I presume that was what you were saying in ironical form.

    You omitted express notice of my pointing out that he suggested Hamas was willing to talk. It was not just Israel wanting to talk.

  439. Momus says:
    @Robjil

    Here is what an Ex- head of Mossad thinks about Al Qaeda. He said that Israel was never was attacked by Al Qaeda, so Israelis help Al Qaeda in Syria. The interviewer says Al Qaeda “attacked” your main ally – the US.

    Yes thanks for that I’m sure you were pleased as well to hear that Israel has it’s own regional interests and will follow them rather than the US line.

    He also made the point about Israel’s humanity towards it’s injured enemies who she treats with the best western medical care. One of the reasons why she has the grudging respect of her adversaries and governments generally in the Mid East.

    That interview was March 28 2016 so quite recent but not contemporary.

  440. Anonymous[341] • Disclaimer says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Would Professor Sönke Neitzel et al’s Soldaten be the “crock” you refer to?

    You can buy it cheap on Amazon

    Description
    Product description
    ‘A goldmine of information about what the German High Command privately thought of the war, Adolf Hitler, the Nazis and each other’ – Andrew Roberts

    ‘One of the most important books on World War II to be published in the last thirty years’ – Tim Newark

    Between 1939 and 1942, a division of the British Directorate of Military Intelligence created a number of PoW interrogation camps in and around London. Sophisticated tapping equipment was installed and secret gramophone recording were made of private conversations between senior German staff officers.

    In this extraordinary work Professor Neitzel examines these transcripts in depth for the first time. His findings are truly revealing and address important questions regarding the officers’ attitudes towards the German leadership and Nazi policies: How did the German generals judge the overall war situation? From what date did they consider it lost? How did they react to the attempt on Hitler’s life in July 1944? What knowledge did they have of the atrocities?

    By turns insightful and horrifying, this unprecedented research is a must for any serious scholar of the period and anyone interested in exploring the truth behind the image of an ‘unblemished Wehrmact’.

    Review
    “A goldmine of information about what the German High Command privately thought of the war, Adolf Hitler, the Nazis and each other. . . . Attempts to suggest that genocide was solely the responsibility of the SS and Nazi fanatics, and not widespread across the whole Wehrmacht, completely collapse before the evidence of these recordings.” ( –The Daily Mail (London))

    “An outstanding work.” ( -Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung)

    About the Author
    SÖNKE NEITZEL is Professor of International History at the London School of Economics**, having also held positions at the universities of Glasgow, Saarbrucken, Bern and Mainz. He is the author of seven books, including the best-selling Soldaten: On Fighting, Killing and Dying and appeared on the major Channel 4 documentary Spying on Hitler’s Army.

    **now back in Germany as Professor of Military History

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  441. Thea says:
    @anonymous

    What??? Are you saying it was less a crime to kill Russian grandmas and babies because Hitler also said some unflattering things about Jews as a group?

    With the constant stream of anti-white nonsense ( often written by or promoted by Jews) there is no moral high ground held by Jews here. Other groups suffered, often in greater
    Numbers.

  442. Art says:
    @Momus

    Bin Laden’s Al Qaeda did it.

    19 Arabs who learnt to steer Jumbo jets crashed the planes.

    Scratch 9/11 and it bleeds Jew!

    Think Peace — Do No harm — Art

    • Replies: @Them Guys
    , @Momus
  443. The Holocaust is a brand like Heinz 57.

    One can no more be a “Holocaust denier” than a Heinz 57 denier.

  444. Roy says:

    Pathetic. Maybe the author should have consulted — http://www.codoh.com and http://www.jan27.org

    What he truly needs is — https://holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com/

  445. Skeptikal says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I have read that German Jews were the ones who had the greatest chance of surviving the war–staying in Germany in one way or another.

    • Replies: @Momus
  446. Them Guys says:
    @Art

    Art: Jewry has turned the entire worlds nations into a massive, mass of huge infected sores. Peel back any nations sore’s covering Scab, and what you find/see is international jewry dwelling deep within the sore’s poisonous Puss.

    This may explain most jews’ huge fetish and obsession with always turning every tv sit com or comedy act etc into a, non stop mentions of perverse wordings. Such as how todays jew produced tv shows have as every other word the actors speak as “shit-piss-fag/shit/piss/dyke lezbo/fag piss shit etc etc etc etc…….And the more they dwell in the shit and piss, the more like a sores poisonous Puss jewry becomes eh. It must reflect the jewish plans of Tikkun Olem aka jewish Repair of the world!

    Similar to when Janet Reno/Hillary/Bubba Klinton et al. Decided how in order to “Save them Children’s at WACO Church Compound, they First would have to BURN it down totally, and Machine Gun Down every survivor that dared exit building due to Fire.”

    Jewry Ups it one better….Use Samson option of Nukes to burn down world so jews can then “Repair” it huh? The longer I live, the more I learn about jewry, and the More I realize that what so Many others, famous or not, have stated about the jew in general….The more it is proven as truth and factual. How in todays instant info age internet ability, anybody can possibly still defend all things jewish or Israel is the big Mystery of Our era and times no?

  447. @Anonymous

    That this Neitzel is welcome in present Germany, why does it not surprise me ?
    I know about this spying, as far as I know nothing new came to the attention of the British.
    When is Britain going to make public the May 1941 Hess documents ?

    • Agree: L.K
  448. @jilles dykstra

    Right. What puzzles me are the several cases of Jews who were in KZ like Auschwitz and said afterwards that they never heard about gas cammers until after the war. You can read about them in the mainstream media. One of them is Laszlo Bernath , another is Hedi Bohm. (I have to see if I spelled the names correctly). There are several other stories which are difficult to explain (cant write more now with a smartphone). I would like to have an explanation that makes sense of those cases.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @utu
  449. @Incitatus

    Choltitz, a noble German; he defied orders and saved Paris.

    Someone remind me: who was Choltitz’s Allied counterpart, the noble Allied general who defied orders and refused to bomb Dresden?

  450. peterAUS says:
    @Momus

    Agree.

    The Wizard, in spite of being a real heavyweight here, makes a fundamental error, IMHO: he approaches the issue as, say, sophisticated upper class Westerner discussing the power of the state. Say, one of Five Eyes (or similar).

    Israel doesn’t have such luxury.

    The game is totally at another level, from both sides, there. Hamas member isn’t an armed criminal in West. Not even a terrorist cell in West.

    Just next, much more brutal, level.

    Now, I am sure that the element of lack of professionalism was/is/will be playing role there too.
    IDF shooters there weren’t SASR or similar; IDF is simply different force from Western armies.

    Plus, it would be interesting (I know it’s imposssible, PERSEC) to know were those shooters actually from those very areas where Hamas was trying to breach into.
    Like, a shooter has a family several KMs behind the line.
    Makes a lot of difference in that decision to “pull”. And where to aim.

    Anyway.

  451. utu says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Or who refused to defend Warsaw in 1939 or Rotterdam in 1940 and avoided bombing of the cities and save many civilians.

  452. Momus says:
    @Skeptikal

    I have read that German Jews were the ones who had the greatest chance of surviving the war–staying in Germany in one way or another.

    Hiding in a cellar for 6 years?

  453. Wally says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    “Choltitz, a noble German; he defied orders and saved Paris.”

    What orders? Show them.

    It’s amazing that by simply asking for proof is all that’s required to shoot down the Zionist propaganda about WWII.

    http://www.codoh.com

  454. Momus says:
    @Art

    Scratch 9/11 and it bleeds Jew!

    How so Art?

  455. Wally says:
    @Uncomonground

    Also note that not a single British Bletchley Park intercept of secret German messages to and from Auschwitz and the so called ‘death camps’ never mention gas chambers, killing Jews, or anything holocaust-like.

    There are many which do mention transporting large numbers of Jews out of these labor camps.

    Also note that the outbound train records which were kept have disappeared while the inbound records have not.

    So called “holocaust eyewitnesses” making absurd, impossible, and contradictory claims is the rule not the exception.

    Who benefits? Who profits?

    much more: http://www.whatreallyhappened.info/decrypts/ww2decrypts.html

    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7581

    http://www.codoh.com

  456. @Wally

    Here I found it, on page 53 of my book, the quotation and the source where I had found it (and from which I provided the English translation) and then on page 68, more of the same type, and I paste all of this here from my WHY the Holocaust Happened:

    p. 53:
    “The teachings of Christ have laid the foundations for the battle against Jews as the enemy of Mankind; the work that Christ began, I shall finish.” Thus did Hitler summarize his mission, addressing his followers on 18 December 1926, in a speech to the Nazi Party (Bärbel Dusik, ed., Hitler: Reden, Schriften, Anordnungen, v. 2, 1992, pp. 105–6). He was speaking to people he viewed as supporters, not as enemies; so it came from the heart, it expressed his true convictions. Similarly, prior to his power struggle with the churches culminating in 1937, Hitler felt that the Roman Catholic church, and the other Christian denominations, were “my people,” not “outsiders,” much less “the enemy.” So it was with sincerity that Hitler, at the beginning of his reign, reassured Bishop Berning in conversation on 26 April 1933, “I am doing what the Church has done for 1,500 years. I am simply finishing the job.” (Hans Müller, Katholische Kirche und Nationalsozialismus: Dokumente 1930–1935, 1963, pp. 118–9.)
    p. 68:
    Hitler’s religious sense of mission was by no means restricted solely to the Holocaust, such as his expression in Mein Kampf (1939, p. 84; 1943, p. 65) that, “by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”

  457. Wally says:
    @Skeptikal

    Leave it to a Jew to freakout when it’s noticed that he is a Jew.

    LOL

    It’s noted that you dodged & ran from my posts which shatter your bizarre wishful fantasies.

    Still waiting for proof of your impossible ’6M & gas chambers’.

    “Alone the fact that one may not question the Jewish “holocaust” and that Jewish pressure has inflicted laws on democratic societies to prevent questions—while incessant promotion and indoctrination of the same averredly incontestable ‘holocaust’ occur—gives the game away. It proves that it must be a lie. Why else would one not be allowed to question it? Because it might offend the “survivors”? Because it “dishonors the dead”? Hardly sufficient reason to outlaw discussion. No, because the exposure of this leading lie might precipitate questions about so many other lies and cause the whole ramshackle fabrication to crumble.”

    - Gerard Menuhin / righteous Revisionist Jew, son of famous violinist

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  458. utu says:
    @Uncomonground

    I personally knew people who were to Auschwitz and never talked about the gas chambers. Unfortunately then I was not interested in the issue. Auschwitz was a pretty large complex of many camps. Officially gas chambers were in two camps: Auschwitz I and Birkenau plus supposedly there were couple of buildings that also were used at some point at hoc point gas chambers. I think it was possible to be in some parts of Auschwitz and never hear about it. Auschwitz served as a regular prison where inmates were doing time of finite term sentences. They were mostly Poles, Silesians but also Germans convicted of small crimes. These people at the end of their sentence were released from Auschwitz. Yet, during WWII in Silesia region no rumors about gassing were circulating. There were also political prisoners who were released when some strings were pulled and bribes were paid. These people were often from larger cities like Warsaw and were connected and it seems that they did not provide intelligence about gassing to political organizations they were associated with. A lot of inmates were assigned to work crews that worked outside with little supervision. There were time periods with many escapes or simple walk aways particularly among women from Birkenau. What is also interesting there were cases when the escapees were caught sometimes many months later and they were not executed to the contrary of most stories being told. When delousing was done in Birkenau in women camp everything went to delousing chambers and inmates remained naked for many hours. I have read memoirs by three different women who were in Birkenau which were mostly about survival and live in the camp. Each of them has a chapter or two about gas chamber which are written as a matter of fact without an outrage. It almost feels like then in WWII using gas against humans was expected and just quite normal. Prior to the war and during there was a constant fear of gas attack and almost everybody had a gas mask. The gas attack never happened but this may explain the sanguine descriptions of the gassing operation by these women.

    What is interesting that right after the WWII in the Soviet sphere of influence Jewish extermination was emphasized and instead the narrative was that the crimes committee there were affecting victims from all nationalities. Films and books about camps and Auschwitz concentrated on the survival in camps and the cruelty of the SS staff. The solidarity and selflessness among inmates was emphasized. This has hanged in the US after the Six Day War and within few decades the stories of camps became totally different in emphasis from what was being told in 1950s and 1960s.

  459. Milton says:

    As far as I know, the elite Jewish genetic stock was not wiped off the map and persists to this day where this genetic stock not only occupies Palestine but also occupies the Western institutions that were once known as “Christendom.”

    As far as I know, the elite German and Japanese genetic stock was indeed wiped out and holocausted during WWII. The Allied conventional bombings of Germany and Japan is the only Holocuast worth talking about during WWII. Two great races were wiped off the map and do not exist today in any meaningful way.

  460. Miro23 says:
    @L.K

    Still peddling this BS, huh?

    I give more weight to David Irving’s opinion than Veronica Clark’s (AKA Weronika Kuzniar):

    The Table Talks’ content is more important in my view than Hitler’s Mein Kampf, and possibly even more than his Zweites Buch (1928). It is unadulterated Hitler. He expatiates on virtually every subject under the sun, while his generals and private staff sit patiently and listen, or pretend to listen, to the monologues.

    It’s worth reading Irving’s full answer:

    http://www.fpp.co.uk/Letters/Hitler/TableTalk010104.html

  461. Josecanuc says:
    @Anon

    “Jewish Tribalism per se isn’t the problem.”

    “The problem” is actually is quite simple: 

    “The whole world is mentally sick, much more so, we Jews.” – Arthur Ruppin 1876 –1943) was a Zionist thinker and leader, one of the founders of the city of Tel Aviv, sociologist, taught Sociology of the Jews at Hebrew University

  462. FKA Max says: • Website
    @j2

    Great work!

    You should start archiving your website/blog, just in case… I archived your blog posts on the Holocaust for you below.

    How many Jews died in the Holocaust, the simple summary
    May 29, 2018 In Holocaust controversy

    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2018/05/29/how-many-jews-died-in-the-holocaust-the-simple-summary/ Archived link: http://archive.is/cEhXD

    All together this makes 3.5 million, which is one million smaller that the number 4.5 million I calculated subtracting survivors from the original number in one post, and it is the number we get assuming that the amount of Jewish immigrants to the USA was 1 million larger than is officially told, as I explained in the post. We got some confirmation of this assumption in this calculation which I just made.

    How many Jews can have died in Auschwitz?

    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2017/11/18/lets-take-some-example-conspiracy-theory/ Archived link: http://archive.is/EWC3Z

    Did anyone survive Operation Reinhard camps?

    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2017/11/18/continueing-from-the-previous-post/ Archived link: http://archive.is/5jTpG

    Is the number of Eastern European Jews in 1939 correct?

    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2017/11/18/still-the-same-topic/ Archived link: http://archive.is/O4v6z

    How many Jews immigrated to the USA before 1939?

    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2017/11/20/h4-finished-this-conspiracy-theory/ Archived link: http://archive.is/2C7fA

    How many native Poles died in WWII?

    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2017/12/28/how-many-native-poles-died-in-wwii/ Archived link: http://archive.is/4pIcC

    What can explain the holocaust testimonies?

    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2018/03/09/what-can-explain-the-holocaust-testimonies/ Archived link: http://archive.is/dNFiR

    What does liquidation mean?

    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2018/03/13/what-does-liquidation-mean/ Archived link: http://archive.is/IlzHk

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  463. Momus says:
    @peterAUS

    Plus, it would be interesting (I know it’s imposssible, PERSEC) to know were those shooters actually from those very areas where Hamas was trying to breach into.
    Like, a shooter has a family several KMs behind the line.
    Makes a lot of difference in that decision to “pull”. And where to aim.

    Agree.
    A lot of the IDF members, female and male, will have lost family members, neighbours and friends in the intifadas and to random terror attacks where many innocents where murdered.

    Some have probably had their houses destroyed by indiscriminate firing of katyushas.

    None of them or their commanders will be old enough to have taken part in the goings on in the early days of Israel.

    I am quite sure that given the level of intelligence Israel deploys that Hamas members are recognised as individuals with known propensities in the field.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  464. Bob853 says:

    What this article presents is a testimony by Eichmann, which is worthless and full of problems, if Mr. Zeusse needs a post war testimony in order to prove Holocaust happened, then it speaks volume about reality of that alleged event.

    Mr. Zeusse also presents Hitler´s words or Himmler´s words, which is nothing but typical verbal thuggery and harsh language towards what they do not like, all people do this, so is absurd to present it as evidence of Holocaust, that´s grasping at straws, debunked so many times.

    Regarding that:

    “When three days later, on 23 January, Hitler in his Secret Conversations (Table-Talk) addressed Himmler sarcastically about the matter, Himmler understood very well what he meant by saying of his policy toward the Jews, “I’m extraordinarily humane. … But if they refuse to leave voluntarily, I see no other solution than extermination.”

    An example of poor research, the original says: “Ich sehe nur eines: die absolute Ausrottung, wenn sie nicht freiwillig gehen.” That´s a well known issue of ausrottung meaning, which as amply proven, does not mean only and always killing as holocaust believers falsely claim, but simply uprooting, extirpation, here dealing away with Jews by forced removal of Jews from the German space, simple as that. What Hitler meant and what was the context was made clear a few days later on January 27th when he said “Der Jude muß aus Europa hinaus! Am besten, sie gehen nach Rußland. Ich habe kein Mitleid mit den Juden.” So Hitler had no sense of pity for Jews and so wanted them out of Europe and move them to Russia what he thought would be the best. That´s it, precisely in this way he meant what he said on Jan 23rd otherwise makes no sense to speak of removal of Jews to Russia when a few days earlier Hitler spoke of their killing, obviously what he said on 23rd was not meant as killing of Jews, simple as that.

    Mr. Zeusse either lied when he was silent about what Hitler made clear later or he is not very careful reader, anyway, that´s an usual modus operandi of a Holocaust believer.

  465. Momus says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Great irony that modern eugenics is the domain of homosexual couples, often hard left lesbians who sperm shop.

  466. Skeptikal says:
    @Wally

    Wally: I didn’t say anything about 6M.
    You are the dreaming/fantasizing.
    Gas chambers: Most certainly they were used against Germans, and Jews, and others. Their first use was against Germans with in Germany—possibly some Jews were included but Jews were not targeted at that time. The order to begin the Vernichtung of Lebensunwertes Leben was called the T4 Programm.
    Here is the website of the Gedenkstaette Grafeneck, where the Vernichtungsprogramm and technology was first test-run:

    http://s522790709.online.de/311.htm

    Oh, right, you dear little know-it-all, you don’t speak any German! Even so you know more th an anyone else who does speak multiple languages, including German.
    OK, so check it out here:

    http://www.dark-tourism.com/index.php/15-countries/individual-chapters/219-grafeneck-euthanasia-centre#b

    There is a more detailed Wikipedia entry, but of course that is all made up fantasy!!

    I certainly have no obligation to respond to your ridiculous “knowledge” challenges—I am just trying to help you and others on this thread to come to terms with genuine evidence and help distinguish between actual evidence and fantastical propositions. I wrote a much longer post yesterday on what I consider the misuse of the term “Holocaust,” but that post disappeared in an electronic blip. I have nothing against Revisionist history, but I do have something against ignorant outright fantasies. There is absolutely no doubt that German citizens, including Jews, were gassed and cremated as early as the late thirties. Regarding “freaking out,” your knowledge of German cultural h istory is too limited for you to do anything but insult those whom you do not have the wherewithal to understand. Frankly, you seem to be the one freaking out, with your interminable citations of the codoh.com site. Go to the Grafeneck Gedenkstaette website and do not return to this thread until you have absorbed the information there presented. Here is another good source:

    • Agree: Momus
    • Replies: @peterAUS
  467. Josecanuc says:
    @HadEnough

    
    “Jewish pitymongering is wasted on me as I think it is on most people on the planet at this point.”

    “There is a strange place, an extraordinary and interesting place called Earth. The people are all insane, the other animals are all insane, the earth is insane, Nature itself is insane. Man is a marvelous curiosity. When he is at his very best he is a sort of low-grade nickel-plated angel; at his worst he is unspeakable, unimaginable; and first and last and all the time he is a sarcasm. Moreover he thinks he is the Creator’s pet. He even believes the Creator loves him; has a passion for him; sits up nights to admire him; yes, and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to Him, and thinks He listens. Fills his prayers with crude and bald and florid flatteries of Him, and thinks He sits and purrs over these. He prays for help, and favor, and protection, every day; and does it with hopefulness and confidence, too, although no prayer of his has ever been answered. The daily affront, the daily defeat, do not discourage him, he goes on praying just the same. There is something almost fine about this perseverance. He thinks he is going to heaven! Mark Twain Man the Lowest Animal

    “The human race consists of the dangerously insane and such as are not.” Twain

    Kant almost named his Critique of Pure Reason “Essay on the Sickness of the Head”…one of Kant’s conception of life was that life was a madhouse or lunatic asylum, where each inmate not only destroys his own happiness and works against his own good, but also finds his greatest pleasure in afflicting his fellows with all imaginable pain and suffering…

    “A proposition is correct if, within a logical system, it is deduced according to the accepted logical rules. A system has truth content according to the certainty and completeness of its coordination-possibility to the totality of experience. A correct proposition borrows its “truth” from the truth-content of the system to which it belongs.” Einstein

    • Replies: @daniel le mouche
  468. Josecanuc says:
    @Wally

    “This prohibition is reinforced by the prophet Hosea (chapter 2), when he declares: “The number of the children of Israel shall be as the sands of the sea, which cannot be numbered and cannot be counted…”

    “I have seen all the (Jewish?) works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and a striving after wind. That which is crooked cannot be made straight, and that which is wanting cannot be numbered….” Book of Ecclesiastes

  469. peterAUS says:
    @Skeptikal

    Informative post.

    An interesting reading:

    http://www.dark-tourism.com/index.php/15-countries/individual-chapters/219-grafeneck-euthanasia-centre#b

    It does make gassing and cremating of Jews quite plausible, for sure.
    For some people, I mean.

    Sorry for the interruption, guys.

    Back to the usual of “6M” vs “didn’t happen” thing.

  470. Svigor says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    I could say I expect basic literacy from a writer, but that’d be a lie (I read too much to be that naive).

    There was no ad hominem attack in my comment, only an observation (one that is still true; “I have nothing against Christianity, it’s a fine religion” is more economical than just your second response, never mind the two combined). There was no lie or untruth, either.

    But sure – let’s have a battle of wits. I’m already trembling in fear, I assure you.

  471. Svigor says:
    @Anonymous

    Who gives a flying fuck? No CTRL-F in your browser?

  472. Svigor says:
    @Eric Zuesse

    If I confess to burning down the City of New York, there’s still that little matter of whether the City of New York was actually burned down.

  473. Svigor says:
    @anonymous

    Jews: “race, group, etc., doesn’t matter. We should be race-blind. People are people.”

    Also Jews: “the holocaust was the worst thing in history because it targeted the Jewish people (P.S., the other 6m who were murdered are chopped liver as far as we’re concerned; barely worth mentioning).”

  474. Incitatus says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    “Choltitz…defied orders and saved Paris… who was Choltitz’s Allied counterpart…who defied orders and refused to bomb Dresden?”

    Good question S2C. Not sure of any, sad to say. If they existed, they’ve been suppressed in victor’s accounts (nothing worse than a skunk at the picnic). Dresden was tragic, a milestone proving Giulio Douhet’s thesis:

    “The guiding principle of bombing actions should be this: the objective must be destroyed completely in one attack, making further attack on the same target unnecessary…The complete destruction of the objective has moral and material effects, the repercussions of which may be tremendous…we need only envision what would go on among the civilian population of congested cities once the enemy announced that he would bomb such centers relentlessly, making no distinction between military and non-military objectives… [all] citizens will become combatants, since all of them will be exposed to the aerial offensives of the enemy. There will be no distinction any longer between soldiers and civilians.””

    Operation Gomorrah on Hamburg – eight days of bombing beginning 24 Jul ’43 – is more lamentable. 42,000+ civilians killed and 37,000 wounded. Leveled the city. British led. Doesn’t seem connected to Eric Mendlesohn and Dugway Proving Ground ’43 ‘German Village’ tests, but I could be wrong. Operation Meetinghouse on Tokyo Mar ’45 was worse: 100,000+ civilian deaths and over 1 million displaced. Hiroshima and Nagasaki followed.

    1950s ‘Duck-and-Cover’ drills were the legacy of terror Douhet advocated, proven in places like London (1915-18), Guernica ‘37, Warsaw ‘39, Rotterdam ‘40, Hamburg’43, Dresden ‘45, Tokyo ‘45, etc. Students in the most remote rural locales squatted next to a hall locker and crouched under their school desks. Little comfort to we who lived within a mile of a rural Nike base. Teachers told us it would save us, but really? Unless your dad invested in a ridiculous home bomb shelter, inedible canned goods and primitive chemical toilets you became a child cynic. The Cuban Missile Crisis 16-28 Oct ’62 cemented the high water mark of lunacy. Dr. Strangelove (29 Jan 1964) invited return to sanity.

    Choltitz was indeed noble. Worthy of thanks for all (including me) who love Paris. A remarkable exception to the dehumanizing process of war, as was Albert Speer (in his refusal of the Nerobefehl). There may well be many others on both sides.

    Listen to former Secretary of War Stimson:

    “We must never forget, that under modern conditions of life, science, and technology, all war has become greatly brutalized, and that no one who joins in it, even in self-defense, can escape becoming also in a measure brutalized. Modern war cannot be limited in its destructive method and the inevitable debasement of all participants…A fair scrutiny of the last two World Wars makes clear the steady intensification in the inhumanity of the weapons and methods employed by both, the aggressors and the victors. In order to defeat Japanese aggression, we were forced…to employ a technique of unrestricted submarine warfare, not unlike that which 25 year ago was the proximate cause of our entry into World War I. In the use of strategic air power the Allies took the lives of hundreds of thousands of civilians in Germany and Japan…We as well as our enemies have contributed to the proof that the central moral problem is war and not its methods, and that a continuance of war will in all probability end with the destruction of our civilization.”

    -Henry L. Stimson, “The Nüremberg Trial: Landmark of Law” Foreign Affairs 1947

    Pretty candid, eh S2C? Can you produce anything comparable from German or Italian WW2 players? He was quoted by Albert Speer in ‘Inside the Third Reich’ (p.520).

    Let’s return to your original question “[what] Allied general…defied orders and refused to bomb Dresden? None known. What Axis generals refused Anschluß, the Müncher Abkommen, invading rump Czechoslovakia and Poland 1939, Denmark, Norway, Luxembourg, Belgium, Netherlands, France 1940, North Africa, Yugoslavia, Greece, Crete, Eastern Poland, USSR 1941, and so on?

    Wish they all, like Choltitz, realized there was more to life than another medal. What, S2C, do wish for? Another threshold?

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz