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A Review Essay of Max Good’s Documentary Film
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Human duplicity is a marvel to contemplate. This riveting documentary is an excellent example of such cunning in action, not on the part of the filmmaker who is eminently fair, perhaps overly so, but on the part of some of those who appear in the film. It demands that viewers use every skill in their possession to determine who is lying and who is telling the truth about the involvement of a woman named Ruth Paine (and her husband Michael) in the assassination of President Kennedy. In many ways, it is akin to sitting in a jury box, listening to trial testimony from witnesses for the defense and prosecution and from a few whose slippery words seem meant to create uncertainty and never-ending debate about Paine’s innocence or guilt in the president’s murder.

The film will be an eye-opener for anyone unfamiliar with Mrs. Ruth Paine’s fundamental role at the heart of the president’s murder; and for those knowledgeable about her, it will be greeted as an important contribution to the case. I believe it is not just a must watch for those interested in JFK’s assassination, which is the key to all subsequent American history, but for anyone trying to unravel today’s tapestry of lies and propaganda spewing out from the mainstream media (MSM) that go by different names – CBS, ABC, the Washington Post, etc. – but all of whom speak for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). The basic equation is: CIA = MSM.

Since many people are adept at lying, they think they are good at sniffing out lies in others. This is highly questionable. We live in a country of lies, from the top down and the bottom up; propaganda and the everyday lies that grease the skids of social intercourse. Deceptions that deceive no one. Lying is the leading cause of spiritual death in the United States, even as devotion to truth is embraced as a national platitude. Even when such fealty to truthfulness isn’t professed or implied and the lying is admitted, as with ex-CIA Director Mike Pompeo’s 2019 remark about the CIA at Texas A&M university – “We lied, we cheated, we stole” – such treachery is uttered proudly and with a chuckle. It’s what everybody knows and pretends they don’t.

There are some intellectuals, like Noam Chomsky, who likes to say that many who lie believe their own stories because of their institutional affiliations – e.g. journalists for the BBC, The New York Times, CBS, etc. (but not the Defense Department-funded MIT where he spent his career) – because such institutions require that the employees they hire have internalized the script in advance. But they don’t call it lying, for it is built into the socialization process that leads to positions within such institutions. So they are only doing their jobs and lack awareness of any duplicity. They are innocent of their own complicity in censorship and propaganda in stories they report. They have no knowledge of the fact that their mainstream employers have long been proven to be mouthpieces for the CIA, M-16, etc.

Focused exclusively on institutional analyses, Chomsky denies these people a place for individual freedom and consciousness, as he does with his long-held absurd assertion that JFK’s assassination is of little importance and his denial of the clearly documented facts about how Kennedy took a radical turn toward peacemaking in the last year of his life, a metanoia that led directly to his death.

He is correct, however, that such MSM people don’t need to self-censor, for their jobs require them to play the game according to the censorship rules under which they were hired, but he is very wrong to claim they therefore believe what they say. That assumes these people are very ignorant, which they are not; that they just obliviously do their jobs and collect their pay. He fails to distinguish between playing dumb and being dumb.

It would be more accurate to say that they live in what Jean Paul Sartre calls “bad faith” (mauvaise foi), for “the essence of a lie implies in fact that the liar actually is in complete possession of the truth which he is hiding …. The ideal description of a liar would be a cynical consciousness, affirming truth within himself, denying it in his words, and denying the negation as such.”

You can’t lie to yourself, for that would mean you were two people. But you can lie to others. And you can play dumb. It’s called acting. And of course many journalists and academics hold dual positions, since they secretly work as assets for the intelligence services.

I begin with these thoughts about lying because a good number of the people who appear in The Assassination and Mrs. Paine have no ostensible institutional affiliation but may be working in some capacity for an invisible institutional paymaster who calls their tunes. No names required. They implicitly present themselves as disinterested pursuers of truth, yet viewers are forced to assess the veracity of their claims, including those of Ruth Paine who appears throughout, answering Max Good’s interview questions.

Much has been written and filmed about the JFK assassination. Most take a broad perspective. This film is quite different because it approaches it through a personal focus on a woman named Ruth Paine who, for those who may not have heard of her, was the key witness against Lee Harvey Oswald at the Warren Commission (WC) hearings where she was asked more than five-thousand questions (her husband Michel was asked 1,000 or so). She is the woman who invited Marina Oswald to live with her in her home in the Dallas suburb of Irving, Texas, where Lee Harvey Oswald also spent weekends from late September 1963 up until the morning of the Assassination on November 22, 1963. Her testimony led to the WC’s conclusion that Oswald, and Oswald alone shot, the president.

The Assassination and Mrs. Paine is Max Good’s second full-length documentary. He came to the subject after reading a section (pp.168-172) on Ruth and Michael Paine in James W. Douglass’s JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died & Why It Matters, a book considered by many to be the best on the JFK assassination . He felt the Paines’ story shouted out for a documentary, and when he discovered that Ruth Paine was still alive, in her late eighties, lucid, and living near him in a Quaker retirement home in California, he contacted her and she agreed to be interviewed, something she has done for 59 years, always protesting her innocence, even though over the decades researchers have uncovered much evidence to the contrary.

Her ex-husband, Michael, also lived at the home but has since died. There’s a brief interview of little consequence with him in the film since his memory was going, but I should note that he too is a crucial figure in the assassination story. Both he and Ruth have always denied involvement in the plot and coverup, yet much evidence connects them to it. Michael Paine’s involvement is artfully suggested by the film’s title – “Mrs. Paine” and not simply Ruth Paine, a woman acting alone. The Paines, who have claimed they are pacifists, might best be superficially described as unassuming, liberal Quaker/Unitarian do-gooders, whose wealth and astounding family and intelligence connections would make heads spin, if they were known. The film exposes many of those connections.

The fundamental undisputed facts are as follows. In February 1963, Ruth, who spoke and taught Russian, was invited to a party by George de Mohrenschildt, a White Russian CIA asset who was ‘babysitting” Lee Harvey Oswald at the request of the CIA. There she met Oswald. Soon de Mohrenschildt would go to Haiti and Ruth would establish a relationship with Lee and Marina Oswald. In September, Ruth Hyde Paine visited family in eastern Massachusetts on Naushon Island, owned by the Forbes family. Michael Paine’s mother, Ruth’s mother-in-law, was Ruth Forbes Paine Young, from the blue-blood Forbes family of Boston. She was friends with the CIA’s Allen Dulles since her best friend was Mary Bancroft who was Dulles’s mistress. They had stayed on the island.

From Massachusetts, Ruth drove to New Orleans to pick up the Russian speaking Marina Oswald and the Oswald’s belongings to bring her back to Dallas to live with her. It’s a small, unassuming house, but there was room for Marina and her children because Michael Paine had conveniently moved out in the spring, allegedly because of marital problems, but would move back in the winter after the assassination and Marina’s departure. Ruth says she did this to help a woman in need. On her long road trip south, she made numerous stops, including at her sister Sylvia Hyde Hoke’s house in Falls Church, Virginia. Sylvia worked for the CIA, as documents have confirmed, and her husband worked for the agency’s front, the U.S. Agency for International Development (AID), yet to this day – and in Good’s interview in the film – she claims not to know where her sister worked. Ruth’s father, William Avery Hyde, also worked for U.S. AID in Latin America and his reports went to the CIA. From her sister’s house, Ruth proceeded to New Orleans where she picked up Marina and took her to her house in Irving. In mid-October, again out of alleged kindness, she got Lee a job in the Texas School Book Depository, despite calls to her house from an employment agency offering him a much higher paying job. When asked about this by the Warren Commission, Ruth gave an evasive answer. Then when JFK was killed, an empty blanket roll that allegedly held Oswald’s rifle was found in the Paines’ garage. And Ruth claimed to have found a note – the ”Walker Note” that was used to show his propensity for violence – and a letter also allegedly written by Oswald to the Russian Embassy that was used as evidence of his guilt. There is much more of a strange and suspicious nature involving Ruth and the Oswalds.

The Paines have always said that Oswald killed Kennedy to make a name for himself – the little man kills the big one syndrome. They repeat this in the documentary. Ruth says of Oswald, “He realized he had the opportunity to no longer be a little guy but someone extraordinary.” But as Jim DiEugenio (one of the finest and most informed commentators in the film) says, if that were so, then why did Oswald always claim he was innocent, a patsy who didn’t shoot anyone. Those who wish to kill to make a name for themselves obviously claim credit, but the Paines seem not to get this. Their claim makes no sense, yet they both repeat it in the film.

And although the film’s focus is on Ruth, not Michael, there are other undisputed facts about him worth noting. As previously mentioned, his mother was Ruth Forbes Paine Young. After divorcing Michael’s father, Lyman Paine, his mother married a man named Arthur Young. Among other strange facts about Young, he was the inventor of the Bell helicopter, which was the prototype for the infamous Huey helicopter used in Vietnam. Those helicopters were produced at the defense contractor Bell Helicopter in Fort Worth, Texas where Michael, the pacifist, worked through his connection to Arthur Young. He had a security clearance; when the Warren Commission asked him what type of clearance, he said he didn’t know. One of his cousins, Thomas Dudley Cabot (the Boston Cabots), was a former president of the United Fruit Company, and another, John Cabot, worked for the State Department where he exchanged information about the CIA-United Fruit coup d’état against Jacobo Arbenz. Later, he was president of the CIA front company Gibraltar Steamship Corporation that leased Swan Island in the Caribbean for the CIA, where the agency set up Radio Swan that was used during the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba, among other things (see pp.193-208 in James DiEugenio’s Destiny Betrayed, second edition, for important information on the Paines).

All this factual background on the Paines doesn’t definitively prove anything about them, but it is essential to assess their credibility, and watching The Assassination and Mrs.Paine is all about doing that.

The question about Ruth that the film asks is whether she is a truthful, naïve, Quaker do-gooder or a CIA asset, a pawn, or someone in deep denial (whatever that is).

She has her defenders and they appear in the film along with well-known supporters of her and the Warren Commission’s conclusion that Oswald did the deed alone: Max Holland, Gerald Posner, Priscilla Johnson McMillan, Jack Valenti, Michael Beschloss, and Peter Jennings.

From the so-called prosecution side we hear from: Jim DiEugenio, Dr. Gary Aquilar, Dr. Martin Schotz, Vince Salandria, and Sue Wheaton.

Paine’s defenders make sure to bash Oliver Stone and his film, JFK, and Ruth claims Stone never contacted her about her portrayal in the film. Stone denies this and says she would not talk to him. But she makes it clear that she is a big fan of various Network TV specials that support the WC, especially the London mock trial with Gerry Spence and Vincent Bugliosi, and a Peter Jennings ABC special.

Ruth Paine is given a lot of screen time between her defenders and accusers. As I said, Max Good is more than fair, perhaps too fair. Paine is a cool character who only rarely gets a bit flustered. She’s been doing these interviews for a long time, and is either a good actor or an innocent bystander, as she says, “I’m kind of naïve …. But I think it’s a blessing.”

After giving both sides their say – and a few others, whom I won’t mention, who make lawyerly-like slippery statements – Bill Simpich interjects that there is “something about the Ruth Paine story that simply doesn’t jell.” Good then proceeds to ask Ruth a series of hard questions that viewers will find very interesting. But he never lets the audience know what he has concluded about her guilt or innocence. He is impartial to the end.

I am not. For before watching the film, I knew a great deal about the Paines and their roles in the assassination and its cover-up. I completely agree with the Philadelphia lawyer Vince Salandria, one of the earliest and most brilliant critics of the official story, when he says “You can’t close the circle without the Paines. There is no way they can be innocent. No way.”

And he added the film’s penultimate statement about the assassination:

There is no mystery here. It’s all self-evident. It was a coup. It was designed to be a false mystery and the debate would be eternal and why it [killing JFK] was done – forgotten. In order to commit yourself to truth here, you’re changing your real identity from a citizen of a democracy to a subject of a military empire. A big step.

Ruth Paine, however, gets the final word. Regarding all the claims about her involvement with the CIA and the Oswalds: “Nonsense. Absolute nonsense …. I am interested in truth …. I’m a very independent person. Nobody tells me what to do.”

I highly recommend that people watch this important film and reach a verdict based on the evidence it provides, and if they need more, to read the works of Douglass and DiEugenio mentioned earlier, among others. As good as a film can be, it is only as good as the sources it relies upon.

Human duplicity is a marvel to contemplate. The Assassination and Mrs. Paine will force you to do that. Don’t miss it.

(Republished from Edward Curtin by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: History • Tags: Conspiracy Theories, JFK Assassination 
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  1. Anonymous[825] • Disclaimer says:

    Very detailed review of what appears to be a key player in the JFK crime.

    What is remarkable to me is that the links to all of the players come back to the CIA. And who was the controlling figure in the cia involvement: planning, organization, and execution::Allen Dulles.

    Who was on the farce that was the Warren commission: Allen dulles.

    Who controlled the press and resultant coverup, as it does today: the cia.

    I could go on and on but suffice to say that wherever the us is involved in theft, drug dealing, murder, destruction, violence, coups, it is the cia directly or thru its many proxies, e. g. NED, USAID.

    It is indeed remarkable and today we see the handiwork of the cia in the bloodbath that is ukraine. It even has an office co-located with the ukraine security service. Again, remarkable.

    • Thanks: GMC, Skeptikal
  2. Max was just interviewed on America’s Untold Stories (which is a fantastic YouTube channel).

    • Thanks: Agent76
    • Replies: @Republic
  3. Anonymous[970] • Disclaimer says:

    CIAs gonna CIA.

  4. JWalters says:
    @Anonymous

    Good points all. Col. L. Fletcher Prouty was the CIA’s contact person for men and supplies from the military. Prouty emphasized that the CIA is an agency, which meant it does what it’s told to do rather than set policy. So, following the money, who could afford to buy the CIA? Allen Dulles was a lawyer who helped mega wealthy bankers hide vast amounts of money before he became head of the CIA. A history with a plausible money trail to the Deep Center of the Military Empire is in War Profiteers and Israel’s Bank
    https://warprofiteerstory.blogspot.com/p/war-profiteers-and-israels-bank.html

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Notsofast
  5. Too many circumstantial connections to simply be some innocent bystander.

  6. S says:

    In mid-October, again out of alleged kindness, she [Paine] got Lee a job in the Texas School Book Depository, despite calls to her house from an employment agency offering him a much higher paying job.

    It was also in real time in October, ’63 that a new episode of Route 66 was filmed, scheduled for broadcast a week after the assassination, entitled ‘I’m Here to Kill a King’.

    The plot is the story is of a wholly innocent young man, a new hire, whom due to the happenstance of his new place of employment being located along the motorcade route of a visiting country’s chief executive, is to be the ideal fall guy to take the blame for a high level assassination plot.

    [MORE]

    At about 31:00 of the episode (see YouTube clip below) the fall guy new employee character is told by the real assassin, a doppelganger of the fall guy, that it was as though ‘somebody pulled the strings’ to get him the job there, and that was ‘too bad’, because he was going to have to die.

    • Replies: @Adamant
    , @Traviseo
  7. Fine review.

    Regarding Chomsky and the Chomsky-Herman propaganda model.

    Their propaganda model was developed soon after the revelations of direct CIA control over the corporate media. The model helped divert attention from the CIA revelations. It allowed ‘leftists’ to criticize the media in terms of ‘filters’ that filtered some journalists in and some journalists out.

    Thus a CIA controlled journalist could simply be portrayed as a naive conformist dummy. This is why leftists like the propaganda model. It protects them from being accused of being ‘conspiracy theorists, and it allows them to prance around proclaiming their moral and intellectual superiority to corporate media journalists.

    The CIA and corporate journalists are also very happy for people to promote the Chomsky-Herman propaganda model, it diverts attention from the reality of the corporate media and the deep state.

    • Replies: @JWalters
  8. Republic says:
    @Autistocrates

    Yes,it is an excellent channel

  9. dimples says:

    These ‘last chance’ style interviews don’t reveal a great deal, the interviewee has had a very long time to prepare the story. Who wants to sit through an hour or so of Mrs Paine lying her arse off?

  10. anon[159] • Disclaimer says:

    J Walters, where does Prouty say CIA does what it’s told? ST is full of examples of CIA’s defying and actively undermining direct presidential orders.

    https://ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ST/

    “CIA works for the president” was CIA’s first party line, shoehorned into the Pike Committee’s report with Don Gregg’s threat of martial law. That was followed by a proliferating mess of CIA works for _____. “CIA works for rich guys” is ver. 21.0.5/a.

    CIA does things for money all the time but that doesn’t mean you can hire them. CIA runs at least two sets of books like any mob so they don’t need your money. They take what they want. CIA can kill you or torture you and get away with it thanks to their dozen-plus get-out-of-jail-free cards in law, regulation, judicial precedent and sub rosa memoranda. When you have arbitrary off-with-her-head power, you don’t work for anybody. People do what you say or else. CIA is the US command structure.

    • Replies: @JWalters
  11. @Anonymous

    Missing is Mossad’s role in the project.

    • Agree: Durruti, Chuck Orloski
    • Thanks: JimDandy, Iris
  12. Durruti says:
    @The Old Philosopher

    Missing is Mossad’s role in the project.

    The article is MISDIRECTION.

    • Thanks: Chuck Orloski, JimDandy
    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  13. anastasia says:

    It was excellent. Virtually all the evidence against him came from her incriminating testimony, and her “finding” so many incriminating documents. But we cannot leave out the lies of Marina Oswald.

    Marina, unfortunately, can never come clean. It would be impossible for two reasons: (1) she would have to admit she lied to incriminate her husband only to save herself; and 2) her life definitely would be put in jeopardy.

    She tried to backpedal some years later, not talking about anything she did, or was forced to do, but only seizing upon the research of others. Of course, she would get no where with that.

    As far as Paine is concerned, we are expected to believe that she was invited to a party of a host she did not know, that was loaded with white Russians, with whom she could learn the language and who had far more in common with her, but instead, Paine, the anti-communist, invited two communists into her home to learn the Russian language, and she was there to do that at the precise time when the first babysitter, George de Mohrenschildt, had to step out of the picture?. Anyone who is not suspicious has to be completely braindead. But in her manner, she is an excellent liar, a practiced liar, a liar who has studied the art of lying. Perhaps this is where her psychology background came in handy, perhaps she was trained in it, like her sister who was able to make up tests without using language to determine intelligence….for the CIA. She is highly intelligent. She acts like she knew so little about her sister that she did not even know who her sister worked for. Yet, they both studied the same major and seemingly choose the same professions. Ruth was obviously the younger sister and probably adored her sister. I would have asked her about her relationship with her sister more. She acts as if she barely knew her.

    Before the President was shot, she was willing to hand over to the FBI Oswald’s so-called letter to the Russian state’s official assassin? What kind of “do-gooder” does that? With friends like that who needs enemies?

    • Replies: @Anon
  14. Treg says:

    JFK lies today are articles like the one above that completely ignore and never addresses the two a video confessions by James Files to being the Grassy Knoll Shooter.


    Video Link

    • Agree: Iris
    • Thanks: Notsofast
    • Replies: @JimDandy
    , @Anon
    , @Getaclue
  15. “Human duplicity is a marvel to contemplate.”

    I do not about the rest of the world but as it pertains to the West, the Old Testament has been the chief source of ills inflicting US and until we reform it, we won’t be.

  16. Durruti says:

    The film will be an eye-opener for anyone unfamiliar with Mrs. Ruth Paine’s fundamental role at the heart of the president’s murder; and for those knowledgeable about her, it will be greeted as an important contribution to the case. I believe it is not just a must watch for those interested in JFK’s assassination, which is the key to all subsequent American history, but for anyone trying to unravel today’s tapestry of lies and propaganda spewing out from the mainstream media (MSM) that go by different names – CBS, ABC, the Washington Post, etc. – but all of whom speak for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). The basic equation is: CIA = MSM.

    By the numbers:

    1. Mrs. Paine had no “fundamental” role in the assassination of President Kennedy.

    2. This film is not a “must watch.” It is a mis directional time waster.

    3. Yes. The assassination of JF Kennedy “is the key to all subsequent American history.” He’s got that right.

    4. Notice, there is no mention of just why the assassination “is the key to all subsequent American history.” No mention of the assassination being the key act in the Coup D’état of November 22, 1962. No mention of who controls us, occupies us, denigrates us, buggers us, robs us, in 2022.

    5. There is No mention of the murder of JF Kennedy’s brother, Robert Kennedy, on the day he won the California Democratic Party Primary election. Golly! Do you think there’s a connection?

    6. This article is regurgitating, and wasting our time, and misdirecting, and adding no new facts or analysis, – – – 59 years after the crime.

    7. Jack Rubenstein, the Maxwells (father & daughter-MOSSAD AGENTS), puppet Epstein, Director Ehud Barak (where is he from? What position in the Entity did he occupy?), Servants – Clintons, Trump, Obomber, Bushes, Biden, 99 Senators, Media & (‘alternate’ Media-which magically fails to get to the point). The corruption. The FEAR. Do I need a verb?

    Not wishing to end on a negative note. This is a Great Country. This is our Home. We might wish to, even attempt to, Restore Our Republic!

    Dr. Peter J. Antonsen – nom de guerre, Durruti

    • Thanks: Chuck Orloski
    • Replies: @Sparkon
  17. … Kennedy took a radical turn toward peacemaking in the last year of his life, a metanoia that led directly to his death.

    This will certainly come as news to the descendants of the relatives and close friends of Ngo Dinh Diem. His assassination, in which the Kennedy administration was deeply implicated, took place three weeks before Kennedy’s own.

  18. Agent76 says:

    Aug 1, 2011 President John F Kennedy’s speech, warning us…

    Listen carefully to the words of President John F. Kennedy in his speech before the American Newspaper Publishers Association.

    September 1, 2021 New Evidence Implicates CIA, LAPD, FBI and Mafia as Plotters in Elaborate “Hit” Plan to Prevent RFK From Ever Reaching White House

    Yet even after over 50 years, high government officials like Vice President Kamala Harris are still trying to cover up the truth about his murder.

    https://covertactionmagazine.com/2021/09/01/new-evidence-implicates-cia-lapd-fbi-and-mafia-as-plotters-in-elaborate-hit-plan-to-prevent-rfk-from-ever-reaching-white-house/

    • Agree: Durruti, Chuck Orloski
    • Replies: @Durruti
    , @Franz
  19. Adamant says:
    @S

    Okay, now that’s pretty freaky. I have never heard of that episode.

    • Replies: @S
  20. Durruti says:
    @Agent76

    John Fitzgerald Kennedy

    Our last Constitutional president.

    Just listen. His quality shows through. Jefferson reborn!

    • Thanks: Agent76
    • Replies: @pecosbill
  21. JimDandy says:
    @Treg

    Thanks. His boss was Charles Nicoletti, who was murdered in Chicago. He was shot three times in the back of the head in his running car outside of Chicago. George De Mohrenschildt died the same day. Both were set to testify before Congress.

    • Agree: Treg
  22. Iris says:
    @JWalters

    A history with a plausible money trail to the Deep Center of the Military Empire is in War Profiteers and Israel’s Bank

    JFK made his life mission to put an end to nuclear proliferation in order to preserve humankind.

    In particular, he put an immense pressure on Israel to have the Dimona nuclear reactor built by the French to get regularly inspected during construction, in order to verify that it was destined to civilian research only.

    When the pressure became unbearable, Ben Gurion stunned the world and his country by suddenly resigning out of the blue from his PM position, saving a precious time and deflecting JFK’s attention.

    https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nuclear-vault/2019-05-02/battle-letters-1963-john-f-kennedy-david-ben-gurion-levi-eshkol-us-inspections-dimona#:~:text=The%20Battle%20of%20the%20Letters%2C%201963%3A%20John%20F.,be%20%E2%80%9CSeriously%20Jeopardized%E2%80%9D%20Absent%20Inspection%20of%20Dimona%20Reactor

    At the very same time in July 1963, Israel secretly put in service the Dimona reactor, a process that prevents ascertaining the real design intents of such installation, and therefore a tell-all sign that the Israelis were trying to hide its real, military, weapon-grade plutonium-enrichment function.

    JFK relentlessly pursued his inspection goals and finally imposed a first US inspection of Dimona to take place in December 1963, at which point his inspectors would have discovered that the Israelis had lied, that the reactor was already in service and therefore intended for weapon-production usage. At that point, the American presidential hellfire would have fallen on Israel with incalculable consequences.

    But a “miracle” happened. One month, just one month before the Dimona inspection that would have unleashed a catastrophe on Israel, the nuclear disarmament-seeking President got shot like a dog. Just one month before Israel got caught and punished. What an extraordinary timing, isn’t it?

    • Agree: Durruti, Skeptikal
    • Thanks: Chuck Orloski, Bubba
    • Replies: @Durruti
    , @JWalters
  23. Anon[128] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Some would say that James Jesus Angleton was the key figure in the CIA and certainly an important mole on behalf of Israel.

    • Replies: @Treg
  24. Anon[128] • Disclaimer says:
    @anastasia

    She doesn’t come across to me as a practiced liar. She comes across as a middling moron. Why would anyone want to listen to this white trash moron pontificate on the assassination?

  25. @Durruti

    I haven’t seen the film, but the article does not claim there is no Mossad/Israeli involvement, only that the Paine’s narrative is questionable. Given the long infiltration of US administrations by “communists”, most of whom were Jews, and that intelligence agencies co-operate on projects, it is not beyond belief that both the CIA and Israel co-operated, as both were under threat from Kennedy – the CIA being dismantled and Israel being forced to come clean on nukes. It wouldn’t surprise me if the UK were involved as well.

  26. Notsofast says:
    @JWalters

    excellent additional points, another member of the warren commission was gerald ford the first unelected president of the united stated (but not the last). to elaborate on your dulles money laundering goes here’s a nice tie in to the bush family and laundering (it always seem to tie into the bush family, doesn’t it?). hopefully the link will work.

    http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/54/54_14-18.pdf

    • Replies: @JWalters
  27. Abesays says:

    ..
    ..

    Famous Abes who got shot, anybody?

  28. Anon[268] • Disclaimer says:
    @Treg

    Amazing video. Was this completely ignored by the mainstream media? Can you provide the background for this video? Who is the interviewer, where was it conducted, how did the person decide to confess at all? Did he face any repercussions afterwards?

    • Replies: @Iris
  29. @The Old Philosopher

    DiEugenio is great–but as noted in the comments here he does not go near the Mossad-Angleton topic.

    Angleton was the master of propaganda and disinformation–he believed in layers and layers of lies so that investigators would finally get burned out digging through the thick bramble-bushes.

  30. Getaclue says:
    @Treg

    The Mafia worked with the CIA to kill Kennedy – Sam Giancana was the point man as to that as he was already working with them on other “projects” – his brother wrote the book as to admissions made by the Psychopath/Mafia King Giancana (who was removed with a bullet to the head himself finally right b4 going to testify b4 Congress….) – everyone should read it:

    • Agree: Treg
  31. pecosbill says:

    As mentioned, JFK planned the murder of President Diem of South Vietnam in a Coup. Three weeks later, he himself was assassinated in Dallas by whom? We are yet asking. LBJ hinted and said of JFK’s murder: “It was divine retribution. He (JFK) had Diem murdered and three weeks later, he himself was murdered.”

    There is an industry of people who look upon JFK as their god who would have solved America’s problems had he not been so cruelly taken away. This cabal believes America was lost forever with JFK. The Kennedy clan, like most entrenched and wealthy politicos were skunks and degenerates who were whore mongers, meth heads, who, btw were implicated in the murder of Marilyn Monroe. RFK was accused of tapping pert young Jackie, saving his brother the work. The idea that the death of JFK and RFK was a breach beyond which America was no longer salvageable is fantasy-land. America, the spirit of ’76 and the constitution of 1787 died at Appomattox April 1865.

    JFK was not a peacemaker, quite the contrary. He saw the Army Special forces as the ticket he needed to get involved in brush-fire wars using small scale operations against communists in third world countries. He renamed the Special Forces the Green Beret, because he, JFK, liked the green cover. He and RFK were neck deep in assassination plots against Castro with the mob doing the ground work. The same mob that stole the 1960 election for Kennedy in Chicago. LBJ stole Texas, and quipped later, “Goddamn, I stole 300000 votes and it damn near wasn’t enough.”

    When LBJ flew to Hawaii to meet with the Pacific command to out what Kennedy had planned for Vietnam, he found there was no reduction of troops and abandoning of Vietnam as many, wrongly, have claimed but a continuation of the same plus a build up of American troops.

    At the time both LBJ and JFK got it correct on Vietnam when they decided to hold the line, but their political incompetence plus military know-nothings caused the disaster the war became. This was only a few years after the big WW two and the red army was huge, aggressive, expansionist and had nukes, and never renounced their desires around the world. In Europe they were held in check via American and German resolve. It was Hitler, by the way, and to some extent General Franco, who saved Europe from domination by the red terror sweeping to the English Channel. Reagan gave the final push that collapsed the Soviet Union by calling their bluff and countering their short range nukes in eastern Europe with Pershing short range nukes in western Europe.

    Concerning the JFK assassination, Rush Limbaugh got it half right. He said a number of times that it is the left who keeps looking for assassination plots because they can’t believe one of their own, Oswald, Lee Harvey, murdered their god. For them the culprit must have surely been a right winger, the CIA, the defense industry, Texas oil, Nixon, Bush, and so on. Oswald being the lone assassin is doubtful, crime scene analysis certainly makes it unlikely Lee pulled off the crime of the century with and old Italian rifle, hahahaha no way. The American political police (A.K.A., the FBI) failed to duplicate Lee’s magic, and this was after they practiced and properly aligned the scope.

    • Thanks: Pierre de Craon
    • Troll: mulga mumblebrain
    • Replies: @Bob Mitchum
    , @Sparkon
  32. pecosbill says:
    @Durruti

    Jefferson Davis was the last constitutional president.

  33. Shahnameh says:

    Fletch (or Fletcher Prouty), heh? Ckout the 1985 letter form retired 3 star Victor Krulak to Fletch! My bet is that Krulak had a hand in it, he went on a fact finding mission with Mendenhall in sept of 63 to Vietnam. His legacy in Asia was one TONY PO, ckout that CAT! Plus the Corps was on the choppin block back then.

  34. Great review. Great movie!

  35. @pecosbill

    Total fucking bullshit. And as always with people who have posters of Jefferson Davis over their beds, depends entirely on the reader not knowing a damn thing about what you’re lying about.

    Go whistle Dixie up your ass.

    • Replies: @pecosbill
  36. pecosbill says:
    @Bob Mitchum

    Hey dumbass, try reading a book or even two if you have the ability. Somewhere along the way you had a good bowel movement and ended up with no brains.

  37. Sparkon says:
    @pecosbill

    As mentioned, JFK planned the murder of President Diem of South Vietnam in a Coup

    That’s complete nonsense.

    Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara recounts that Kennedy was meeting with his senior advisers about Vietnam on the morning of November 2 … when NSC staff aide Michael V. Forrestal entered the Cabinet Room holding a cable… reporting the death. …Both McNamara and historian Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr., a participant as White House historian, record that President Kennedy blanched at the news and was shocked at the murder of Diem. … Historian Howard Jones notes that CIA director John McCone and his subordinates were amazed that Kennedy should be shocked at the deaths, given how unpredictable were coups d’etat.

    JFK TAPE…DOCUMENTS SHOW NO THOUGHT OF DIEM ASSASSINATION

    By all accounts, President Kennedy was profoundly disturbed by the Ngo brothers’ deaths. In the cabinet room of the White House, General Taylor recalled that “Kennedy leaped to his feet and rushed from the room with a look of shock and dismay on his face which I had never seen before.” CIA man Colby confirmed the reaction, saying the president had “blanched and walked out of the room to compose himself.” But others wondered how the president could possibly be surprised.

    https://www.historynet.com/assassination-coup-madame-nhu/

    Obviously, JFK didn’t think like the CIA did.

    You also wrote:

    JFK was not a peacemaker, quite the contrary.

    More nonsense.

    In early October 1963, JFK’s NSAM 263 had ordered virtually all U.S. forces to withdraw from Vietnam by the end of 1965, with the first 500 pulling out by the end of 1963.

    One of JFK’s planned slogans for his 1964 Presidential campaign was “Peace and Prosperity,” and he was intending to use the start of U.S. withdrawal from Vietnam to underline that message.

    Tragically, that didn’t happen only because JFK was assassinated.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  38. Durruti says:
    @Iris

    One month, just one month before the Dimona inspection that would have unleashed a catastrophe on Israel, the nuclear disarmament-seeking President got shot like a dog. Just one month before Israel got caught and punished. What an extraordinary timing, isn’t it?

    Excellent summary.

    The chronology of events, of the actions of a Great President, the last leader of our then Sovereign Republic, clarifies the causes of his assassination, and records the last days of our Republic 11/22/1963, and the identity of the Assassins and their hired accomplices.

    LB Johnson, to Biden, all gauleiters for the Money Changers.

    John F. Kennedy went down, fighting.

    • Agree: JWalters
    • Replies: @Chuck Orloski
    , @Iris
  39. Skeptikal says:
    @The Old Philosopher

    I was wondering about that myself
    How does the Mossad connection, per Laurent Guyenot, fit in with this?
    And what would have been Paine’s motivation?

    Not to question the reviewer’s or the film’s data or conclusions, but motivation is part of the
    “means, opportunity, motivation” scheme.

    What would the Paines have been told was the purpose of their “steering” Oswald to the hot seat?
    Were the Paines perhaps also patsies?
    Perhaps following orders without understanding where they were leading?

    It is easy to play dumb if you are not in the actual loop. Maybe the Paines were one of several “siloed” cells that were coordinated by higher-up puppeteers?
    Perhaps they were used to carrying out smaller operations for their in-laws without understanding the big picture, kind of like mafiosi who may also have supplied weapons, getaway cars, etc., without knowing the whole plot.

    I haven’t yet watched the film, so perhaps these questions are answered or the answers implied in the film.

  40. @Durruti

    Hi Durruti!

    Outside of Michael Collins Piper’s great book,the one described below, is my favorite. Btw, although Mr. Lifton doesn’t say anything about the central Israeli role in JFK’s murder, he is a scientific thinker.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/602499.Best_Evidence

    • Thanks: JWalters, Iris
    • Replies: @Durruti
  41. Traviseo says:
    @S

    Thanks for this. The doppelganger angle is spot on too. A look-alike was impersonating Oswald in Dallas and other venues before the hit. John Armstrong’s groundbreaking research in Harvey and Lee spells it out — two separate, distinct school, employment records for L.H. Oswald and H.L. Oswald going back to junior high school, part of a CIA double identity program.

    Also for weird synchronicity, John Frankenheimer’s two prophetic films Seven Days in May (a military coup) and The Manchurian Candidate — mind-controlled assassin, a la the MK-ULTRA program. Oswald, whether Harvey or Lee, was recruited by CIA while in Marines at Atsugi base in Japan, and was given acid. And in operation for adenoids in Minsk after Russian defection, he may have been implanted with RHIC-ODOM mind-control tech.

    • Replies: @S
  42. S says:
    @Adamant

    Okay, now that’s pretty freaky. I have never heard of that episode.

    Most people haven’t. In fact, it’s called the ‘lost episode’. [See link below for further details.]

    [MORE]

    A year prior to the ‘I’m Here to Kill a King’ episode, there was another Route 66 episode entitled ‘Love is a Skinny Kid’.

    It tells the story of the ‘H’ of WWII as perceived by many Jewish people in allegory form. Mixed in is Guy Fawkes imagery regarding the November assasination plot to kill the king, ie a mask is worn by a person and a figure attached to a pole is burned. During that scene someone says ‘I don’t like you Jack!’

    The Texas town the action takes place is called Kilkenny. The Kilkenny County river border is where the Kennedy family homestead in Ireland is located. The townspeople are called ‘Kilkennians’, which sounds like ‘Kill Kennedy’. [See ‘copy cat effect’ link below and YouTube video of episode.]

    Some elements amongst the Jewish people don’t like the Kennedy clan due to Joseph Kennedy and his wartime actions, or lack of action, as US ambassador to the UK. They believe Joseph Kennedy may have cost some Jewish people their lives.

    The viewer of the episode(s) can decide for themselves what to make of it all.

    Oh, did I happen to mention that Jack Ruby almost certainly personally met with the Route 66 series production crew at his Carousel Club when they were in the Dallas area in late 1961 filming. 🙂 [See Dec 5, 1961 Dallas Times Herald clipping below and its source link. Pictured Carousel employee Najada would testify to the Warren Commission about routinely seeing Dallas police officers going to Ruby’s Carousel Club office and leaving with bottles of whiskey tucked under their arms.]

    https://www.niagarafallsreporter.com/Stories/2013/Sep3/lostepisode.html

    http://copycateffect.blogspot.com/2012/08/weld.html?m=1

    http://www.ohio66.com/newspaper/dallas/

    • Thanks: Emil Nikola Richard
  43. Durruti says:
    @Chuck Orloski

    Many years ago, I helped Mark Lane (Rush to Judgement), move into his 5th Avenue office.

    I was then too young to understand the full importance of the assassination. It was the KEY shift in American History. We lost our Sovereign Nation. All that has happened since the Coup D’état, Vietnam, Iraq, Guatemala, Dominican Republic, and so many other tragedies, has lead to the growing sparks of a greater conflagration.

    My favorite book is Lost Horizon. The Dream is what remains.

  44. S says:
    @Traviseo

    Also for weird synchronicity, John Frankenheimer’s two prophetic films Seven Days in May (a military coup) and The Manchurian Candidate — mind-controlled assassin..

    It was almost as though someone was attempting to mess with the US public’s mind in the early 1960’s via the corporate mass media. 🙂

    If you want further weirdness, the aforementioned Route 66 episode ‘I’m Here to Kill a King’ has a clear subtheme of Arabs, Ground Zero, and New York.

    While I accept the likelihood of powerful cabals operating throughout much of human history, stuff like an apparent 911 subtheme appearing almost forty years before the actual event, makes me think there may be more of an occult element operating behind the scenes with certain of these events than many might feel comfortable acknowledging.

  45. JWalters says:
    @Iris

    Thanks for this excellent account of Israel’s nuclear weapons motive for assassinating JFK.

    JFK was also working to require the Zionist Organization of America (the AIPAC of that day) to register as an agent of a foreign government. That would have virtually eliminated Israeli money from American politics, freeing Congress from Israel’s grip.

    Forward columnist and Emily’s List leader relate ‘gigantic,’ ‘shocking’ role of Jewish Democratic donors
    https://mondoweiss.net/2016/04/forward-columnist-and-emilys-list-leader-relate-gigantic-shocking-role-of-jewish-democratic-donors/

    • Thanks: Bubba
    • Replies: @Chuck Orloski
  46. Sparkon says:
    @Sparkon

    In early October 1963, JFK’s NSAM 263 had ordered virtually all U.S. forces to withdraw from Vietnam by the end of 1965, with the first 500 pulling out by the end of 1963.

    My mistake.

    NSAM 263 actually called for the pullout of the first 1,000 U.S. military personnel by the end of 1963, in addition to implementing the recommendations of Defense Secretary Robert McNamara and Chairman, JCS Gen. Maxwell Taylor to complete the withdrawal of virtually all U.S. military personnel from Vietnam by the end of 1965.

    https://www.jfklibrary.org/asset-viewer/archives/JFKNSF/342/JFKNSF-342-007

  47. JWalters says:
    @Notsofast

    Thanks for that very interesting link.

  48. JWalters says:
    @WingsofADove

    In addition there’s the very real possibility that Chomsky (and others) have received death threats, directed at either themselves or beloved family members.

  49. JrNeymar says:

    I had only heard brief mention of Mrs. Paine in reading about the assasination but one only needs to visit Dallas to know Oswald didn’t nor could have been the shooter. In the Army I was quite good with an M16 and had a lot of use for that in Vietnam 1968-1969.
    With that in mind I was in Dallas on biz and a friend of mine who was very interested in Kennedy’s assasination took me to the Texas School Book Depository Building. We went upstairs and the window where LHO supposedly shot from. I knelt down and visualized the shot and knew that there were few people, very few who could make that shot.
    Then my friend took me to the Grassy Knoll and I stood behind the fence and visualized the shot from there and it was an easy shot from there – a ten year old could have made that shot.
    That’s the easy part – Oswald (nor almost anyone) could have been the shooter.
    Who is what is so daunting, more suspects than Agatha Christie could imagine.

  50. anon[405] • Disclaimer says:

    Yes, Iris, re 22, and of course the Izzies could never have gotten their pits from NUCOR without CIA’s core competence of making stuff fall off DoD trucks. The National Security archive also has fun proof of CIA covering up for their nuclear fire sale to the Izzies. For a decade. Ray Kline was in the thick of it.

    So Dimona is yet another reason why CIA killed JFK.

  51. @JWalters

    Hi JWalters!

    Btw, the young congressman, Donald Rumsfeld, wrote a letter to RFK and insisted he back off from making the Jew lobby register as a foreign agent. Btw, I think it was the American Zionist Council.

  52. JWalters says:
    @anon

    I agree the CIA has a history of disobeying presidential orders, notably with JFK. But Prouty meant they were following somebody else’s orders, as opposed to a few rogue CIA bureaucrats secretly setting the goals.

    History shows that the top tier British financiers have controlled the British press and government and used the British military for their own purposes going back to the early days of the British East India Company. They then expanded their control of banking from the City of London to Wall Street, took control of the US press and government, and began using the US military similarly. This history is discussed, with sources, in War Profiteers and Israel’s Bank
    https://warprofiteerstory.blogspot.com/p/war-profiteers-and-israels-bank.html

    Knowing this history, it’s easy for me to see how a few ultra wealthy banks could take over the CIA along with the military. It’s similar to other instances of agency capture by private interests. It’s not so clear to me how a rogue cabal within the CIA would take over and maintain itself over numerous changes of administrations. And what would be its driving motive? Money? How would it make that money? Selling weapons on the black market? Contract assassinations? It seems much more likely that it would be getting a cut from the real big money guys who reap most of the profits from the wars which they direct the CIA to instigate. The war profits come through the weapons companies, in which they own controlling shares. They spread their cover stories through their media companies, in which they also own controlling shares. They also reap huge profits from their manufactured economic crises, adding to their dominating wealth.

    Some discussion and links to the Prouty material, including his book on the CIA The Secret Team are in
    War Profiteers and the JFK Assassination
    https://warprofiteerstory.blogs
    pot.com/p/war-profiteers-and-jfk-assassination.html

    He’s a very interesting, knowledgeable guy, well worth spending some time with.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  53. Treg says:
    @Anon

    No one I’ve read is saying that, and certainly not James Files.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  54. pecosbill says:

    Thanks for quoting court historians and clowns of the inner circle. Very shallow of you.

    Diem and his brother-in-law Nhu, and madame Nhu (Dragon Lady) continued to make a mess of the war, along with their vendetta against the Buddhists, which became a public relations nightmare for Kennedy. With this turmoil, and the war going poorly with millions of taxpayers dollars up in smoke, Kennedy saw his reelection possibility going south. After all the efforts by the administration, Diem and Madame Nhu remained incorrigible and disavowed Washington’s demands.

    In order to boost his 1964 election chances JFK wanted the Diem government toppled. He worked back channels through Ambassador Lodge, CIA and others to remove Diem while he said the opposite to his circle of jesters.

    Simply to have Diem and his cronies exiled would not do as they would surely line up with the Republicans and give them fodder for how Kennedy mismanaged the war effort, thus perhaps causing him the 1964 election. He was in trouble and knew it, which was the reason he was in Texas. So,given the circumstances there was no option but to have Diem murdered by his own people. Working through Lodge and other operatives Diem was murdered, and no American hands were seen to be involved. Pretty slick, but so was the Dallas hit.

    In early October 1963, JFK’s NSAM 263 had ordered virtually all U.S. forces to withdraw from Vietnam by the end of 1965, with the first 500 pulling out by the end of 1963.

    Yeah sure, more lite and trite foolishness by you. Yes there was to be a pullback, of about 1000 troops, for refitting and refurbishing. Keep in mind there were something like 23,000 to 24,000 in country 1963. Knowing that with Diem on his way out, the administration could lean on South Vietnam to push ARVN harder and show some success such that by the end of 1964 Kennedy could creditably claim the war was going well and he’d bring the boys home soon. He knew better. He knew the rosy estimates of Cong defeats by ARVN was bs, but it might be good enough to inch across with a win in November of 1964. Safely back in, he had four years to not lose Vietnam like Truman did China and N. Korea.

    One of JFK’s planned slogans for his 1964 Presidential campaign was “Peace and Prosperity,” and he was intending to use the start of U.S. withdrawal from Vietnam to underline that message.

    Sure, and FDR promised to not send American boys to fight in a foreign war. What happen? LBJ said, “I will not send American boys 10000 miles to fight a war that Asian boys should be fighting for themselves.” What happened? Oh, I forgot, JFK was not like the others but a god walking among us, sorta like MLK.

    JFK wasn’t all bad. He set a course for German scientists, engineers, and technicians to put an American on the moon before the Ruskies could run a red up there.

    We also got a good war tune out of that era.

  55. Sparkon says:
    @Treg

    James Files has been completely debunked. The cartridge he claims he bit into and left in Dealey Plaza was not manufactured until after 1970, and in any event, a cartridge or bullet sitting where Files said he put it would have been seen by all the cops and bystanders who rushed to that location immediately after the assassination.

    Nobody saw it because it wasn’t there.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  56. Sparkon says:
    @pecosbill

    Thanks for quoting court historians and clowns of the inner circle. Very shallow of you.

    So you say without offering any proof or citations of any kind to support your blather, or contradict NSAM 263, other than “The Ballad of the Green Berets.”

    So sorry slick, but the official documents easily trump your babble.

  57. Skeptikal says:
    @JWalters

    “How would it [the CIA] make that money?”

    Drugs. Opium/heroin.

    ##Sterling Seagrave, Lords of the Rim.
    ##Alfred C. McCoy, The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia is a 1972 non-fiction book on heroin trafficking in Southeast Asia and the CIA complicity and aid to the Southeast Asian opium/heroin trade. Written by Alfred W. McCoy, the book covers the period from World War II to the Vietnam War.

    The scope of international drug trafficking as a source of huge volumes of cash can scarcely be overestimated. Of course this was going on before WW2 in SE Asia. Centered on Bangkok. Controlled by various Thai warlords, Overseas Chinese, Japanese military, etc. Very dirty, lucrative business.

    There is no reason to think that international drug trafficking has CEASED being a major source of \$\$\$ for the CIA.

    • Replies: @JWalters
  58. anon[318] • Disclaimer says:

    J Walters, thanks for the enlightening reply. I think the difference in our viewpoints comes down to the relative emphasis on continuity and change. Predation by bankers is an important continuity in modern history. There is also an important change: CIA’s institutional impunity. That revoked the constitution and legal protections and caused the US to revert to atavistic absolute sovereignty.

    So Re “Rogue cabal within the CIA”? There is no rogue cabal. CIA itself is chartered with impunity in municipal law. They’re not out of control, they’re in control. The National Security Act and Central Intelligence Agency Act created a criminal enterprise within the US government. They gave it impunity, so naturally it took over. Not some bad apples but the agency itself took over. CIA is a totalitarian state. It has some pissant organizations that it uses: DoJ, DoD, State, Congress, Courts. What maintains itself is not some internal cabal – that can change. What maintains itself is CIA the institution, which installs, purges, and kills its nominal heads of state at will.

    And it maintains itself through impunity. That’s its driving motive. Impunity gets you money because you take what you want, and if somebody doesn’t like it, you can kill them or torture them and get away with it. CIA has multiple sets of books for illegal and ultra vires slush funds dating back from WWII booty (look into Alan Quasha) through drug-dealing, child trafficking and gun-running profits, financial theft and fraud, and options speculation on 9/11 at A.B. Krongard’s firm. CIA creates banks and runs them into the ground whenever they want: BCCI and Nugan Hand are just a couple of examples. CIA sucked billions out of AIG. CIA hijacked HUD to fund their illegal war on Nicaragua. CIA hijacked CDC to develop banned biological weapons and profit from mass medical experimentation at government expense. CIA makes the biggest banks launder their dirty money: Deutsche Bank, J.P. Morgan.

    It’s a cognitive wrench because it’s so very simple. When you have impunity, you don’t need to conspire. You do what you want. You make everybody do what you want. Prouty shows you how it’s done.

  59. “You can’t lie to yourself”

    This guy has no idea how human nature works. People lie to themselves all the time, when lying is required to follow self-interest. People who think they are bad are a tiny minority. They rationalize their own selfisnesh as “fighting for the good”. Even the devil thinks that he is the good guy.

    In other shocking news, Rome is the capital of Italy

  60. The tale here just sounds too convoluted to, though if accurate, sounds like another of long suspicious loose ends. Because as the author points out, if in fact, Mr Oswald wanted credit, he certainly did not behave like it.

    ———————–

    I think the film, that would be really compelling is that story of the female reporter, who apparently was asking to many of the right questions of all the wrong people. Maybe its been made. Laugh I may have seen it as a documentary and forgotten.

    ————————

    Until 2003, I never understood, just how easily people in authority will lie and will do so for the purpose of destroying people. Some monumental shift took place during the debacles and aftermath of Iraq and Afghanistan. Ans while I agree that some bizarre force regarding same relational conduct seems to have taken a foothold in nearly every walk of like and they are really in a scorched earth mode of politics. I don’t believe the answer id to engage in the same. And that includes the issue or issues regarding blacks,

    The Russian solution is short term and in the end will led to worse controls or simply disintegrate under the same influences. For those of us that are conservative and lean heavily on the faith and practice of scripture , , , we have a mush tougher leaner parg ro rake, regarding confronting evil.

    Even in the face of lies and liars

  61. In 1962, American people, at least the very bulk of the common people, wholeheartedly believed that there is a struggle between the Good and the Evil, the USSR was the Evil, and the Americans, unalloyed Good; to help the CIA was the patriotic duty of every American; and he is expected to keep it quiet that CIA sought his help; he can only within his heart feel the pride of helping the Good against the Evil. They sincerely believed that the CIA worked for the American people, that whatever excesses it committed, if it were true, was to defend the innocent American lives.

    Now, once this general atmosphere is kept in mind, I find it quiet plausible that a lot many people helped the CIA unwittingly. Undoubtedly the CIA people did not introduce themselves with calling cards, and many of these people thought that they were simply helping someone in their network, not a CIA Operative. In short, American people trusted the CIA and the Deep State, and both betrayed them, and instead served their shadow masters.

    • Replies: @Iris
  62. @pecosbill

    The USA NEVER had China to lose. You Yankee blowhards are a dime a dozen. They whipped your arses but good in Korea, too.

  63. Ole_ed says:

    I actually rented the movie yesterday for \$5; it’s okay, but certainly not great. Mostly just Ruth P repeating her lies. More important was the pointer to ‘America’s Untold Stories’, a fine podcast that I had not known of.

    Kennedy was a liar and a womanizer..a ‘model’ for Clinton; still, it would be good to know who had him taken out.

    My recommendation: ‘Final Judgment’, Michael C Piper.

  64. Sparkon says:
    @Durruti

    1. Mrs. Paine had no “fundamental” role in the assassination of President Kennedy.
    2. This film is not a “must watch.” It is a mis directional time waster.
    6. This article is regurgitating, and wasting our time, and misdirecting, and adding no new facts or analysis, – – – 59 years after the crime.

    Etc. blah blah blah

    Why are you here working so hard “by the numbers” to dismiss and/or discredit Max Good’s film about the Paines? I must tell you your stance here makes you appear for all the world like a gatekeeper, who is trying hard to direct attention away from a critical chapter in the JFK assassination saga.

    There is nothing more fundamental about JFK’s assassination than the WC’s insistence that LHO killed JFK while shooting from the TSBD, a job arranged by Ruth Paine, which LHO took the very next day without ever going through the normal background checks, and despite a better-paying job offer as an airline cargo handler that Ruth Paine apparently concealed from LHO.

    Almost everything critical about the Paines has been classified, including their tax returns.

    As a routine matter, I wanted to examine the income tax returns of Ruth and Michael Paine, but I was told that they had been classified as secret. In addition to the Paines’ income tax reports, Commission documents 212, relating to Ruth Paine, and 218, relating to Michael Paine, also had been classified as secret on grounds of national security.

    Classified for the same reason were Commission documents 258, relating to Michael, and 508, relating to Michael Paines sister, as well as Commission documents 600 through 629, regarding relatives of Michael Paine. What was so special about this particular family that made the federal government so protective of it?

    — Jim Garrison

    Ruth Paine’s story has more red flags sprouting from it than a dog has fleas.

    But sure, Durruti would like to tell us there’s nothing to see here, and we should just move along.

    • Replies: @Durruti
  65. Durruti says:
    @Sparkon

    Ruth Paine’s story has more red flags sprouting from it than a dog has fleas.

    But sure, Durruti would like to tell us there’s nothing to see here, and we should just move along.

    First you criticize me for criticizing the accuracy of “Ruth Paine’s story.” Then you criticize it yourself.

    Next, you criticize my analysis, that is critical of this “story.” Then you attempt to discredit the writer.

    Do I sense an effort by you -of time wasting MISDIRECTION?

    I stand by my analysis and suggestion for a CURE.

    By the numbers:

    1. Mrs. Paine had no “fundamental” role in the assassination of President Kennedy.

    2. This film is not a “must watch.” It is a mis directional time waster.

    3. Yes. The assassination of JF Kennedy “is the key to all subsequent American history.” He’s got that right.

    4. Notice, there is no mention of just why the assassination “is the key to all subsequent American history.” No mention of the assassination being the key act in the Coup D’état of November 22, 1962. No mention of who controls us, occupies us, denigrates us, buggers us, robs us, in 2022.

    5. There is No mention of the murder of JF Kennedy’s brother, Robert Kennedy, on the day he won the California Democratic Party Primary election. Golly! Do you think there’s a connection?

    6. This article is regurgitating, and wasting our time, and misdirecting, and adding no new facts or analysis, – – – 59 years after the crime.

    7. Jack Rubenstein, the Maxwells (father & daughter-MOSSAD AGENTS), puppet Epstein, Director Ehud Barak (where is he from? What position in the Entity did he occupy?), Servants – Clintons, Trump, Obomber, Bushes, Biden, 99 Senators, Media & (‘alternate’ Media-which magically fails to get to the point). The corruption. The FEAR. Do I need a verb?

    Not wishing to end on a negative note. This is a Great Country. This is our Home. We might wish to, even attempt to, Restore Our Republic!

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  66. Iris says:
    @Durruti

    John F. Kennedy went down, fighting.

    Thank you for reminding us how brave President Kennedy was. General de Gaulle put it almost exactly like you did:

    Charles de Gaulle, President of the French Republic:

    “President Kennedy died like a soldier, under fire, for his duty and in the service of his country. On behalf of the French, who have always been friends of the Americans, I salute this great example and this great memory.”

    President Kennedy was a bona fide war hero, who in the middle of WW2 and despite a crippling back, used his family connections, first to join the US Navy , then to be moved to combat zones.

    When their ship was torpedoed by the Japanese, JFK saved one of his wounded men by wrapping a strap around him, clasping it in his teeth and towing him by swimming for hours.
    Once he get got his crew to the safety of an island, he went back swimming alone in search of American rescue teams, and nearly died. For his bravery and selflessness, JFK was hailed a hero and awarded the Navy and Marine Corps medals, as well as the Purple Heart.

    President Kennedy lived fearlessly and died fearlessly; he was the closest to what, in the real life, constitutes a hero.

    • Thanks: JWalters, Cking
  67. Iris says:
    @Old Brown Fool

    I find it quiet plausible that a lot many people helped the CIA unwittingly.

    And this includes those closest and most faithful to President Kennedy, such as his brother Robert.

    A lot of people were convinced, including by Johnson’s shenanigans and intrigues, that in absence of undeniable proofs, the responsible thing to do was to keep quiet about the suspicious circumstances of the assassination, for fear of giving rise to accusations leading to a confrontation with the USSR.

    People were deeply traumatised by the recent 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis, and this was viciously leveraged to silence them.

    • Agree: JWalters
  68. Iris says:
    @Anon

    The James Files confession and information posted by Treg is most relevant to the JFK assassination.

    James Files’ acknowledgment of his role was obtained by experienced FBI agents who befriended him while he was incarcerated, and played on his new=found moral sense after he had become a born-again Christian.

    The James Files confession is very credible and provided original and new information that were independently confirmed by others actors of the assassination.

    This information was for years available on a website managed by Dutchman Wim Dankbaar, and called “JFKMurderSolved“. The website was attacked and destroyed a couple of years ago, and can only be accessed, I believe, through the Way Back machine:

    http://web.archive.org/web/20220707105927/https://jfkmurdersolved.com/
    http://web.archive.org/web/20220316125846/https://web.archive.org/web/20191217200343/http://jfkmurdersolved.com/index1.htm

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/528098.Files_on_JFK

    Veteran JFK truther, the late Jim Marrs, who was the main adviser on Oliver Stone’s film, believed the James Files confession to be true: either Files indeed shot JFK from the Grassy Knoll, or he accompanied who ever did it.

  69. @anon

    But who set up the CIA, who has the CIA always worked for….. Basically what could be called the Illuminati, with Financial Headquarters out of The City of London. The Genesis of the Illuminati can be traced back to the Priests/Temples being the Banks and that the Rulers of most all countries end up hostage to the money/economic forces most dominant in any country. Even as far back as collecting all the Grain in Egypt to central locations controlled by the Ruler/Priest, with grain rations being the form of currency in Egypt.

    https://sites.google.com/site/911newworldorderfiles/nwo-diagram-flowchart

    The hidden history can be traced way back to for example Bagophenes Ganzabara ( the Jewish controller of Babylon ) who surrendered Babylon to Alexander the Great. Or for example at the fall of/sack of Constantinople, the treasure was shipped back to Venice to form the Heart of the European Fortunes of the Black Nobility.

    The history is Occult and Satanic.

    A good question is Why such a public display…. Blowing the head off Kennedy in such a public manner. They could have poisoned him… he was already on medications for various ailments ( they have poisoned US presidents before )…. they could have set up a “lone gunman” in a more private setting (they have done this to US presidents before). Who were they sending a message to? For example there was a congressional investigation into nuclear secrets being passed to Israel. Remember that every, every country is played by the Illuminati for their purposes, they Installed Communism in Russia and China, they invented Communism. They fund all sides in all wars. But IT is not just Jewish, IT is EVIL, those who say they are Jews and are NOT and all the top level EVIL doers, like Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, Fauci, Biden, Clintons, Chick Schumer, top World Economic Forum, Gates, The Committee of 300. For example when they assassinated Paul Wellstone, I am sure any hold outs in Congress in 2002 got the message, they were trying to get us/US into the Iraq war.

    oNCE AGAIN See Albert Pikes plan for three world wars and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion

    • Thanks: JWalters
  70. Sparkon says:
    @Durruti

    First you criticize me for criticizing the accuracy of “Ruth Paine’s story.” Then you criticize it yourself.

    You’re all mixed up. Or are you simply trying to double-talk your way out of your own words?

    You didn’t criticize the accuracy of Ruth Paine’s story at all. In fact, you said it was a waste of time to examine it, a misdirection, which you have just repeated in typical vainglorious fashion.

    The red flags in Ruth Paine’s story invite attention, not dismissal. Do you even know what the term “red flag” means?

    The Paines are significant in several ways… they provided a storage space for evidence that would be used against Oswald. Almost everything that would convict him in the public mind, including the alleged murder weapon, came out of the Paine’s garage. Also found in the garage, among other things, was the Walker photograph, the backyard photograph, the Klein’s Sporting Goods tear-out order for the rifle, among other things… there was also some radical magazines.

    [my bold]
    https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKpaine.htm

    Your so-called “analysis” is a hodgepodge of miscellany all over the place, which is essentially worthless to the point at hand, but please do get back to me when you can explain why all that material related to Ruth and Michael Paine is classified, and why that shouldn’t raise the suspicions of anyone truly interested in solving this terrible crime.

    The real “cure” is to first identify the lies, and second, to declassify all that material about JFK’s assassination, including Oswald’s tax returns.

    Obviously, with all that material remaining under wraps, we do not and cannot know the full truth about JFK’s assassination.

    • Thanks: JWalters
  71. Durruti says:

    While we are discussing this topic. You might wish to give this sad song, Murder Most Foul, by Bob Dylan a listen.

    Dylan wrote this song 3 years before releasing it. He waited until he received the Nobel Prize (for Literature), and then, released his 17 minute long statement – done to music.

    Was Dylan afraid to release his song? Dylan is the foremost songwriter in American history, and the most celebrated. Why did he wait 3 years before releasing this political song?

    His song has been ignored/buried by the Media. That is a clue as to the sensitivity of our Oligarch masters on their greatest secret. Dylan (our greatest Poet), has similarly been marginalized, which is not unlike the treatment of Ron Paul.

    Listen: You decide. The only opinion that counts on this forum – is yours.

    Dr. Peter J. Antonsen – nom de guerre, Durruti

    • Replies: @JWalters
  72. JWalters says:
    @Skeptikal

    Good point about the drug money. I agree the CIA is heavily involved in drug dealing. But in the bigger picture, the Rothschild bank was dealing drugs internationally, including Southeast Asia, a century before the CIA was created. Further, the man who established the CIA’s covert operations capacity, Allen Dulles, worked for the top bankers in his pre-spy career. The covert operations were not part of the law creating the CIA. The president who signed the law creating the CIA, Harry Truman, recommended that the covert operations section be shut down and the CIA revert to its originally intended function of synthesizing the intelligence from other agencies. (That’s why it was called the “Central Intelligence Agency”. Truman recommended this in an op-ed published in the Washington Post exactly one month after the assassination of JFK.

    It’s highly likely Dulles never stopped working for the bankers. They saw the value of having access to a secretive agency with access to all US military and diplomatic intelligence. They would have also valued a secretive covert operations capacity for instigating foreign conflicts. And their existing business of drug smuggling would have been an ideal way to supplement the government budget for such an agency.

    The banking oligarchy began buying control of the mainstream news media in 1915, years before the CIA was created. Their news corporations cooperated with the CIA because their owners told them to, not because they were owned by the CIA.

    The banking oligarchy engineered WWI and WWII, both before the CIA was created. Once the CIA was created they used it to help instigate further profitable wars (e.g. Vietnam). John Perkins worked for these bankers, and his book Confessions of an Economic Hit Man describes how the bankers used the CIA as well as the military to take over foreign governments in order to plunder their natural resources.

    The JFK assassination benefittted Israel and its Zionist bankers in multiple ways. It enabled Israel’s development of nuclear weapons to go forward. It kept Zionist money in US politics. And it ended JFK’s efforts to take back control of the US money supply from the Zionist bankers. Attributing his assassination to a cabal within the CIA ignores all those factors.

    As Ferdinand Lundberg pointed out in The Rich and the Super Rich, the ultra wealthy buy immunity, and thus act with impunity. That is why Israel acts with impunity despite its glaring crimes of apartheid, ethnic cleansing, mass murder, and land theft. I don’t see why an American CIA would care about Israel’s Jewish supremacist agenda, but it’s easy to see why the Jewish supremacist bankers who financed Israel would.

    The CIA definitely does dastardly deeds. But a mountain of evidence points to a banking oligarchy originating and benefiting from such deeds over a long stretch of history, using overt and covert military operations to do so.

    For all these reasons it seems to me that following the money trail does not stop at the CIA. Stopping at the CIA looks like a red herring, distracting from the great financial power behind the curtain.

    • Replies: @Iris
  73. JWalters says:
    @anon

    Please seem my reply to 57 Skeptikal. Note: It helps me notice your reply if you use the reply button on my comment.

  74. JWalters says:
    @Durruti

    Thanks. To follow up, in the excellent documentary below on Dylan’s early years a commenter notes that Dylan turned away from his scathing political songs (e.g. Masters of War) when JFK was killed. If they can kill an American president …

    How Bob Dylan Catapulted Folk Music

  75. Ron Unz says:
    @pecosbill

    In order to boost his 1964 election chances JFK wanted the Diem government toppled.

    About a decade ago, I’d read The Dark Side of Camelot by renowned investigative journalist Seymour Hersh, and he provided a very interesting account of what he claims happened to Diem.

    Supposedly, Kennedy wanted to work out a peace arrangement with Hanoi, but only after he was safely reelected, since doing anything before November 1964 might be used by the Republicans against him.

    But according to Hersh, Kennedy discovered that Diem had already begun making secret peace overtures to Hanoi in 1963. Kennedy was worried peace in 1963 would interfere with his own reelection strategy, so he decided that Diem had to be removed. I can’t remember whether Hersh believed that the killing of Diem and his brother was accidental or planned.

    So Diem allegedly fell not over the issue of making peace in Vietnam merely over the timing.

    Hersh normally doesn’t provide sources for such ultra-exclusive analysis, so I can’t be sure whether his claims are correct, but he does have a very strong reputation.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Cking
    , @Sparkon
  76. Ron Unz says:
    @Sparkon

    James Files has been completely debunked.

    I’ve never heard of James Files except in a few of the comment-threads of this website, but it’s not clear to me why anyone would care about the particular identity of the supposed JFK assassins. After all, the much more important question is who was behind the killing rather than merely who pulled the trigger.

    If the identity of a particular gunman could be overwhelmingly established and that provided a deep insight into who was responsible, the matter might be worthwhile, but otherwise it’s merely a pointless distraction.

    Similarly, I’ve emphasized that arguing about how the WTC towers were destroyed is a waste of time compared to the Who and the Why.

  77. Ole_ed says:

    When people start bringing Robert Zimmerman–(((‘Bob Dylan’)))–into an argument, you know they’re desperate.

  78. @anon

    It’s a cognitive wrench because it’s so very simple. When you have impunity, you don’t need to conspire. You do what you want. You make everybody do what you want. Prouty shows you how it’s done.

    Now there is a bit of truth peeking through the smokescreens put up to hide it.

  79. Ole_ed says:

    Podcast ‘America’s Untold Stories’, with Mark Groubert–anyone have an opinion? Mine is that it’s entertaining, but avoids mentioning (those people).

  80. Iris says:
    @JWalters

    Thanks for such an outstanding commentary.

    the Rothschild bank was dealing drugs internationally, including Southeast Asia, a century before the CIA was created.

    To give but one example, the creation and rise of the “greatest” British bank HSBC had almost everything to do with the opium trade.

    Prior to the British occupation in Hong Kong, Opium had been banned for over half a century in China. When HSBC was first created in 1865, the bank helped European merchants distribute opium across China, using Hong Kong as the trading hub.

    Despite their protestations, the worst fears of the Chinese government had been realized from those that led to the prior Opium Wars in 1839 and 1856, in which China desperately attempted to stop the British, French and Portuguese from importing the Class A drug to their clean shores. This was a drug that European countries had already banned, but saw China as a money making opportunity. The Chinese push back on the import of opium angered the European partners and led to the two wars, which stretched over a 20 year period.

    Following the wars, European merchants, with the help of HSBC, were able to create distribution infrastructure and networks across China and the Chinese drug trade in opium became their number one traded commodity

    https://unpublishedarticles.com/hsbc-hong-kong-shanghai-bank/#:~:text=The%20Opium%20Wars%2C%20The%20Formation%20of%20HSBC%20and,China%2C%20using%20Hong%20Kong%20as%20the%20trading%20hub.

    • Thanks: JWalters
  81. Iris says:
    @Ron Unz

    but it’s not clear to me why anyone would care about the particular identity of the supposed JFK assassins.

    Firstly, it is not the identity of James Files/Sutton that matters, but the wealth of information he has provided that allowed connecting so many critical dots and reaching a few crucial conclusion. There is not a single actor of the assassination who has provided so many relevant leads.

    One most important piece of information is his confirmation of the early assassination ballistics, the findings for which the Dallas police officer in charge was quickly executed.

    Although the killing set up involved triangulated fire with back up shooters, Files confirmed that the principal sniper , Charles “Chuck” Nicoletti, had been positioned in the DalTex building. This edifice was entirely, at 100%, under control of the Jewish Zionist Dallas business community (including Zapruder). Such concertedness as to who hosted the main sniper commands obvious conclusions.

    (From memory, Files stated in his book that his mob hero Nicoletti was paid something like \$40,000 for the execution of JFK).

    Second, as somebody who champions truth, educating the public on political matters gravely affecting their lives and their future, denouncing the abject stupidity and rampant fascism of mainstream media, you surely understand that it is not normal that Files’ confession has been suppressed, that most Americans have never heard of a living man claiming to having killed JFK, that the website hosting his confession and supporting evidence has been hacked, destroyed and “disappeared” from internet search engines?

    Anyway, thanks very much for everything you do: your website is probably the only place where one can freely discuss the confession of a killer who committed the crime of the century, but who nobody is interested listening to.

    • Thanks: JWalters
  82. Iris says:
    @Ron Unz

    Hersh normally doesn’t provide sources for such ultra-exclusive analysis, so I can’t be sure whether his claims are correct, but he does have a very strong reputation.

    There is an excellent book on the last months of President Kennedy presidency, very well referenced and objectively sourced, by American journalist and historian Thurston Clarke.

    Regarding the assassination of Diem, Thurston Clarke comes to conclusions opposite to Hersh’s, except that he provides sources and facts. Kennedy had nothing to do with Diem’s assassination, and he had no intention of sending troops to take part in a war in Vietnam. Kennedy was consciously and deliberately an anti-colonialist. This is such a remarkable fact for a Western leader in the late 50’s that Hersh could not have missed it.

    JFK, alongside the UN Secretary Dag Hammarskjold (himself murdered in 1961), dealt with the Congo crisis for 3 years. He was a supporter of the Non-Aligned Organisation and much appreciated its leader, Indonesia president Ahmed Sukarno. He made his visionary 1957 Algeria speech at the US Senate, providing an outstanding echo to all obscured and ignored anti-colonial struggle worldwide.

    The life and actions of JFK are clear as to what were his true beliefs. Hersh is a covert Zionist of the worst kind, those posing as fair and progressive.

    • Thanks: JWalters
  83. @Ron Unz

    Notes:

    Similarly, I’ve emphasized that arguing about how the WTC towers were destroyed is a waste of time compared to the Who and the Why.

    Except that view of the significance of how the towers were destrroyed is only partly true as well as significantly false.

    It is significantly false if it were irrelvant whether the towers were brought down by the planes that crashed into it and consequently fell into their own footprints or were brought down by pre-plannted explosives that then makes all the difference in the world that would point to who could have done it and why. Thus it is entirely false that how the towers were brought down is irrelevant to pointing to who or why they were brought down. The how, instead, directly points to who and why.

    It is, however, also true that it is irrelevant to focus on exactly what among various methods could have and were used to bring the towers down (was it thermite, nuclear devices, whatever and how the buildings were rigged) once the official story is dismissed and it is acknowledged that the towers were deliberately brought down by pre-planted explosive devices that only then directly points to who could have done it as well as points to their motives for doing so based on what followed.

    It is, indeed, a mistake to focus on one (how) or the other (by whom and for what purpose) when the who, how or for what purpose are intircately linked to the proper and correct solution of the entire case.

    It’s like in a simple murder investigation. It’s next to impossible to identify (absent an eyewitness) who and why a murder was committed without knowing exactly how it was done that would then point to who could have had that opportunity that would also point to for what purpose it was done.

    It’s practically impossible even to start a proper murder investigation until after it is established by the medical examiner how the victim died that makes all the difference in the world about who could have had the opportunity to commit the murder by how it was done.

    The Simpson case is a perfect example of this. The autopsy report identifying the injuries sustained by the victims prove neither victim in fact died of the allegedly fatal injuries identified in the autopsy reports (Nicole of the severed carotid arteries and jugular veins, and Goldman from two half inch custs in the abdominal aorta and two stab wound to the lung) because, among other reasons, there were no signs at the crime scene of any blood spurting from Nicole’s severed carotid arteries, and there was only 100 ml of blood found in Goldman’s abdominal cavity and just 200 ml in the lung that was punctured by two knife wounds and there was no bloood at all in his mouth or respiratory tract that is impossible if those were his fatal injuries.

    • Thanks: JWalters
  84. Cking says:

    Max Goode’s documentary locates a good portion of the JFK assassination among members within the highest echelons of Yankeedom. Ruth Paine’s relations by blood, marriage, society, and CIA ‘professionals’ scratches the surface of another sphere of persons, information, actors in the political Left and Right, corporate, and intelligence, operations that most JFK historians ignore.

  85. Cking says:
    @Ron Unz

    You reference Hersh’s ultra-exclusive analysis? He has nothing but contempt for the Kennedys. I am disappointed that you, Mr. Unz, would repeat the allegation that JFK ordered Diem’s assassination. No matter the politics, it would not have benefitted JFK or the US government as it all turned out. In fact President Kennedy was distraught when he heard what had happened and I’m sure the assassination of Diem would have informed him; that he himself could be assassinated by the warmonger party.

    • Replies: @JWalters
  86. shahnameh says:

    Seymour Hersh went AWOL during Trump’s term maybe he got caught btwn the old SMITH MUNDTact of 1942 and the 2012 NDAA revised SMITH MUNDT which allows propagandizing the domestic population. Isn’t this the reason Snowden went to Russia? Everything collapses on itself Syria-post Maidan(Franklin Templeton UKIE bond bets)-UIYGAR Prometheized terrorists-Gulenist coup Cognitive infiltration for beneficial cognitive diversity(that sounds worthy of a Nobel Laureate).

  87. JWalters says:
    @Cking

    I read the same account of Kennedy’s reaction to Diem’s assassination. It also said the Diem assassination was given the green light by the US ambassador to South Vietnam, Henry Cabot Lodge. (Don’t recall the source)

    • Thanks: Cking
    • Replies: @Cking
  88. Cking says:
    @JWalters

    Interesting and worth investigating, since the Paines’ are of the same demographic, with the same family connections as Henry Cabot Lodge. It’s another party and flank in the conspiracy to assassinated President John F. Kennedy.

    • Agree: JWalters
  89. Sparkon says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ngo Dinh Diem had fallen out of favor with the Kennedy Administration largely because of the Buddhist crisis.

    The log that broke the camel’s back with respect to JFK’s support of Diem was his bloody persecution of Buddhists beginning on May 8, 1963, and culminating on June 11, 1963 with the self immolation of Buddhist monk Thích Quảng Đức at a busy Saigon intersection.

    Photo: Malcom Brown for the Associated Press

    Brown’s shocking photo (and others like it) made front-page news around the world. I recall being horrified by that photo, and it was everywhere that summer of 1963. You couldn’t escape it.

    However, there was really nothing new about the tensions between the minority Catholic elite, who controlled virtually everything in S. Vietnam, including the government, and the overwhelmingly Buddhist populace, who suffered and chaffed under the favoritism and special privileges enjoyed by the elite Catholic minority.

    Under French rule, the Catholic Church had become the largest land-holder in Vietnam.

    Diem’s patronage of the Roman Catholic Church and his favoritism toward the Catholic minority was all too blatant and had turned much of the population against Diem, driving them directly into the arms of the Viet Cong. The popular view was that the Diem presidency and the South Vietnamese government were little more than a continuation of the French colonial enterprise and Catholic domination under new proprietors.

    By now, Diem’s persecution of the Buddhists had become a great embarrassment for the Kennedy Administration, which already had been quietly accelerating its plans to pull out of Vietnam.

    https://www.jfklibrary.org/learn/about-jfk/jfk-in-history/vietnam-diem-the-buddhist-crisis

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Cking
  90. Ron Unz says:
    @Sparkon

    Ngo Dinh Diem had fallen out of favor with the Kennedy Administration largely because of the Buddhist crisis.

    The log that broke the camel’s back with respect to JFK’s support of Diem was his bloody persecution of Buddhists beginning on May 8, 1963, and culminating on June 11, 1963 with the self immolation of Buddhist monk Thích Quảng Đức at a busy Saigon intersection.

    Sure. I’m no expert on Vietnam, but I was vaguely aware of the Buddhist issue, which is generally mentioned in all the standard histories. That’s why I was so surprised by Hersh’s very different account of what really happened.

    I read the Hersh book about a decade ago and I don’t think he provided any documentation. But he is very highly-regarded as an investigative journalist, so I thought it was quite possible he might be correct.

  91. Cking says:
    @Sparkon

    Gaslighting serves what purpose? Speculation and or expert analysis is not proof, there is no proof or reason, to say JFK ordered or wanted Diem dead. Neither we or Mr. Hersh have the courage to accuse JFK’s killers.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  92. Sparkon says:
    @Cking

    there is no proof or reason, to say JFK ordered or wanted Diem dead.

    I agree, and I’ve never made that claim.

    In fact I’ve strongly opposed that conjecture right in this very thread in my response to pecosbill, so I fail to see why you’ve addressed your comment about “gaslighting” to me in response to my comment about the Buddhist crisis.

    The decision to kill Diem appears to have been made on the spot by the Vietnamese military who’d taken Diem into custody.

    May I suggest you work to improve your writing so it is more clear and less ambiguous?

    • Replies: @Cking
  93. Cking says:
    @Sparkon

    My apologies. I meant no malice. And you do agree with my modest observation. Yet my reply is good, since you were conversing with Mr. Unz, I thought I was joining the fray, my reply was not a direct rebuttal to your comment per se.

    South Vietnam could have been a Catholic nation in Asia. Now you say that the SVA was abusing and threatening the Buddhists; it’s plausible. And it is just as plausible that the Buddhist were engaging in subversive activity, driving their own offensive in the horrific act of public sacrifice of life via gasoline and fire. I believe it was a State Dept./CIA op; that the decision to oust Diem was already made. The MSM was throwing the Diem Regime under the bus.; https://www.historycentral.com/Vietnam/buddisttemple.html

    At about this time, every Catholic head of state around the world was scheduled to be assassinated, this, less than a decade after WWII, the final drive to kill Catholic founded Western Civilization in Europe. de Gaul, Adenauer, Lumumba, Aldo Muro, the Kennedy brothers, etc. Catholic boys from the big cities made up most of the American Army casualties suffered in the Vietnam War.

    To repeat, all kinds of aspersions are thrown on JFK for deflection’s sake. We forget to investigate who killed John F. Kennedy and the intention of pointing to the guilty parties.

  94. how come no mention of this Laurent Guyenot video available on YouTube that documents the
    Israeli connection ?

    • Thanks: Iris, Cking
  95. anastasia says:

    Vincent Salandria’s audio on Mrs. Paine


    Video Link

  96. TGD says:
    @Ron Unz

    Files is a braggart and a publicity hound. He’s not to be believed. I doubt whether the real truth of the Kennedy murders will ever be allowed to come out. Question: Why didn’t Trump order the release of the secret documents from the Kennedy assassination when he could have in the fall of 2017? He acceded to the demands of the CIA and the FBI in not ordering the release. I’ll bet he’s kicking himself now. Biden, who is a deep state tool, despite making noises to the effect that the files are currently being vetted and will soon be released will never order their release.

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