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Metropolitan Hilarion

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The Russian Orthodox Church has been affected by recent events as much as the rest of Russian society has. Now, more than ever, the Church is being asked to support the government and this has had ripple effects on church politics. The biggest story is the unceremonious demotion of Metropolitan Hilarion. Once the Russian Orthodox Church’s ambassador to the West and Ecumenist-in-Chief, Metropolitan Hilarion has now been stripped of his official positions. This is almost certainly because he refused to support the special operation in Ukraine. While we don’t have conclusive proof of this yet, we can piece together the story by looking at recent events in context and then puzzle out the implications that this will have for the Russian Orthodox Church going forward.

The Hilarion Controversy

Metropolitan Hilarion is an outspoken and liberal-minded priest who formerly occupied very high positions in the Church hierarchy.

When he was a much younger man, he was a vocal anti-Soviet activist clergy member. There is an interesting 2020 interview of Hilarion where he shared highlights from his career in the faith. An interesting episode that he brought up was the time he spent serving in Vilnius. He, apparently, personally went on TV to call on the Soviet soldiers to disobey their order to put down the independence protesters in Lithuania. The protestors had decided to seize the TV stations as part of their coup and the Soviet troops stationed at these communication hubs had been given orders to defend them, with deadly force if necessary. Hilarion publicly called on them to stand aside and let the protestors seize the towers and thereby prevent blood being spilt. When asked about this rather interesting display of loyalties in his youth, Hilarion justified his actions by stating that the protestors were anti-Soviet and not anti-Russian and that he was always loyal to Russia, just not the Soviet Union.

In more recent times, Hilarion has vocally come out against Russians’ right to own firearms by claiming that no Christian can use deadly force to defend their lives. I do not know whether or not this is theologically correct, but I find that theology often has very little to do with official Church positions on various social issues. But, the most questionable public position that Metropolitan Hilarion took was when he came out vocally against anti-vaxxers. You may have heard of this:

Now, one individual priest is entitled to his opinions, but Metropolitan Hilarion was serving as the Church’s official PR spokesman at the time. So, when speaking to the press, the question was always whether or not the position being expressed was the Church’s or just Hilarion’s personal opinion. The PR guy is a very important position in the Church and one that was formerly occupied by the current patriarch Kirill. Hilarion and Kirill were always considered to be close and there were persistent rumors that Hilarion would eventually become the new face of the Church. With all that context out of the way, it should become clearer why people kept such a close eye on Hilarion and his various activities. Hilarion was far more important within the Church than, say, the hapless and irrelevant Press Secretary Dimitri Peskov is in the Kremlin hierarchy.

Anyway, Hilarion declared that people who refused to get vaxxed were sinners, or rather, his specific words were, that if someone refused to get vaxxed, and then got someone sick because of that decision, that it would be a sin on the part of the anti-vaxxer. Hilarion also encouraged his congregation to get vaxxed and to not entertain any conspiracy theories about COVID. Knowing what we know about the WEF agenda and the ever-shifting narrative around COVID, it’s hard not to look at Hilarion with suspicion after he so blatantly laid his cards out on the table in favor of Corona-mania.

Finally, Metropolitan Hilarion was constantly being accused of working to promote ecumenism i.e., the merger between the various Christian churches and the project to create a one-world religion. He would often go abroad, most often the Vatican, and talk about the common values of Orthodoxy and other Christian denominations and even other religions. While the Orthodox Church officially cannot even entertain a passing interest in Ecumenism, as it would be an unthinkable, un-canonical and deeply unpopular position to take, the Catholic Church does not seem to be bound by such constraints. Many Catholic websites, including the official Vatican one have an “Ecumenism” page, tab or category where they share stories about meetings with other religious leaders and their progress in promoting interfaith dialogue. During these meetings, they outline points of congruence that Judaism, Islam, Christianity, and the most powerful religion of our time, Liberalism, have in common. If the goal is to create a one world religion to go along with the one world government, as many believe it is, then the final product would resemble the Noahide Laws. After all, if we are to approach the question logically, and ask what both Christianity, Islam and Judaism have in common, the answer would have to be the Old Testament. But that’s a topic for another time.

Now, the relationship of the Russian Orthodox Church to the ecumenist, one-world religion project is complicated. The Russian Orthodox Church was allowed to join the World Council of Churches, the premiere ecumenism-promoting organization, by the Soviet authorities. The WCC was reliably left-wing and there was an interest on the part of the Soviets in using it to promote their interests. This story is difficult to summarize and explain, as it has to do with various spook agendas and scheming on the part of everyone involved in the project. But, recently, the WCC threatened to expel the Russian Orthodox Church from its organization because of the operation in Ukraine. This is welcome news. It is unclear why the Russian Orthodox Church is still involved with the organization; for one thing, it leads to conspiracy-minded people asking uncomfortable questions.

In summary: Metropolitan Hilarion’s pro-protester, anti-gun, pro-vax and pro-ecumenist views put him squarely in the Liberal wing of the Russian Orthodox Church. But he has now been stripped of his positions and sent to Hungary, where he won’t be able to cause any trouble in Russia, which is welcome news indeed.

The Ukrainian Church Crisis in Orthodoxy

The Orthodox world is in turmoil over Ukraine. But, to understand what is going on, some more background on Church tradition is necessary.

The Church is divided along canonical territories in most of the territories of the Soviet Union, or, if you prefer, the Russian Empire before it. These demarcations are not built around national boundaries, but they approximate them. There has always been a canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church that historically fell under the auspices of the Russian Orthodox Church. They were granted semi-autonomy following the collapse of the USSR, but still remained part of the overarching Russian structure. In other words, the two Churches remained in communion and that meant that one could take part in the services of both interchangeably at no mortal risk to one’s soul.

As a result of the war, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church hierarchy has decided to break with the Russian Orthodox Church and has declared autonomy. Autonomy is a complicated topic. For example, there is a Russian Orthodox canonical territory in North America, but the Russian Church granted them autonomy a long time ago. In Ukraine, the situation is more complicated because there were already several major splits within the Church leading up to this moment. According to the rules of Russian Orthodoxy, autonomy can be granted, as was the case with North America, but it cannot be declared on the part of the secessionists. The Russian Orthodox Church has not called this an official split as of yet, because it’s considered a grave sin for the Ukrainians to act as they have, and the Ukrainian Orthodox Church has, essentially, condemned the souls of the people under it. Also, on account of the current crisis in Ukraine, allowance is being made to Metropolitan Onufriy considering that there might be SBU agents breaking priests’ thumbs and forcing the split.

Metropolitan Onufriy, however, is an interesting personality. There are people in his congregation in Ukraine who consider him a living saint. This is a problem because Russian Orthodoxy generally frowns on the concept of living saints. This is in stark contrast to Catholicism, or at least this used to be one of the main points of contention between the East and the West centuries ago. The case of St. Francis of Assisi is a good example. The Orthodox Church considers him to be a fake saint because he acted like a rock star during his day and basically overdid his whole act. Naturally, the Catholics beg to disagree. But even extremely popular and influential Orthodox monks and priests like Father Seraphim (the American) who basically introduced America to Russian Orthodoxy with his popular books have to spend decades in clerical purgatory before the Church decides whether or not to grant them saint status.

Following the news from Ukraine, there was a gathering of higher-ups in the Church who demanded that Metropolitan Onufriy and his Church be declared schismatics and therefore no longer saved by the light of the canonical Church. Although, even here, there is some nuance. Officially, in the end, God decides who goes to Heaven or not, not the Church. So, basically, there is some wiggle room, but not much and being considered a schismatic is a big deal in the Orthodox world.

After the aforementioned council in which the Ukrainian Orthodox Church decided to go its own way, and at the meeting gathered by the Russian Orthodox Church to discuss the situation, Metropolitan Hilarion decided to defend Metropolitan Onufriy. In other words, he claimed that Onufriy and his people weren’t schismatics and he counter-signaled the position of other bishops who stated that Onufriy and the Ukrainian Orthodox Church were as good as damned. This may have been the final strike against Hilarion.

Church Politicking in the Orthodox World

Here, we should say a few words about the other schismatics in Ukraine. Before the very recent split of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, there was already a splinter organization that calls themselves the Orthodox Ukrainian Church (the order of the words is reversed) and they are led by Filaret Denisenko.

Back in the 90s, Denisenko wanted to become the Patriarch in Moscow, but he lost his bid for power to the now reigning Patriarch. After that, he decided to go his own way and created his own autonomous Church. He was supported in this endeavor by the Ukrainian government, and the West, naturally. He and his church were always considered schismatics by the Russian Orthodox Church.

But the situation is even more complicated by the existence of yet another key player in the world of Orthodoxy.

Enter Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, an ambitious man, and a priest who clearly wants to become the Pope of Orthodoxy:

The Constantinople Church claims that it is the first among equals among the Churches because of historical reasons. Bartholomew supported Denisenko and his schismatics back in the day. But, more recently, in 2018, he officially granted autonomy (autocephaly) to the Orthodox Ukrainian Church and this led to a final, formal split between Moscow and Constantinople. In other words, the faithful are no longer allowed to take communion in each other’s Churches — it is considered a grave sin. Bartholomew believes that the Constantinople Church has the right to grant autonomy to other Churches and this was his justification for acting as he did. However, he also refuses to recognize the separateness of the Greek Orthodox Church.

In other words, he pursues his own politics and acts as he sees fit in his own interests and the interest of his Church. Another example: in Macedonia, there used to be a Serbian Orthodox Church that was the official canonical church in the region. But then, a split occurred in the aftermath of Yugoslavia — a move that was supported by the Macedonian government, of course. After negotiations, the Macedonians agreed to rejoin the Serbian Orthodox Church with the understanding that they would then be granted autonomy, making the split canonical. Bartholomew, claiming the exclusive right to grant autonomy, encouraged them to declare themselves autonomous without the blessing of the Serbian Church. In this instance, he failed to cause an even deeper split between the two Churches.

More than any other Patriarch, Bartholomew is very enthusiastic about the ecumenical effort and always rushes to support The Current Thing™. Nowadays, he supports mass migration into Europe, the Kiev government and the Green Agenda, which earns him fawning praise from the world press.

The Agenda of the Russian Orthodox Church

In the 90s, the Church was concerned with returning its stolen property from the government. It was only under Putin that the Church started receiving support from the government. Most recently, the famous St. Isaac’s Cathedral in St. Petersburg was returned to the Church. It used to be a museum and large revenue generator for the city, and so the decision was protested. But the problem of property restitution has largely been solved in Russia at this point and the situation for the Church has stabilized.

Within Russia, there are schismatic Orthodox movements, but they do not have an organized structure. Mostly, it’s individual priests who have pulled away from the canonical Church for one reason or another and taken their congregations with them. Russia’s Old Believers, who refused to go along with the Nikonian reforms back in the 17th century, were partially brought back into the fold in the 90s. They struck a deal whereby they could keep their traditional pre-Nikonian rites in exchange for recognizing the official Russian Orthodox Church hierarchy. These Old Believers are called Единаверы (United Faith). Solzhenitsyn praised them and supported their recognition and reintegration into the Church, critiquing the original genocide and persecution that was unleashed on them by Church authorities centuries ago. Also Dugin, who used to be more interested in right-wing esotericism, now attends an Old Believer Church in Moscow.

Also, the position of the Church is, officially, against blood-letting in general. But, this year, an official decision was made to re-institute the official chaplain role in the military. In other words, military units will now have a priest assigned to them. This is an old Russian tradition from pre-Soviet times that has been restored and it is a very promising sign that Russia is moving past its Soviet legacy, at least in the military, where Orthodoxy is taken seriously by many soldiers and officers. Patriarch Kirill recently stated that “the Russian military in Ukraine is driven by an inner moral sense based on the Orthodox faith.”

Other than the effort to strengthen Orthodoxy’s place in Russian society, the Church is also deeply involved with the politics of the Orthodox world, which we briefly touched upon above. Much time is spent debating and discussing the development in Ukraine and the larger Orthodox world. For obvious reasons, the Russian Orthodox Church believes that it should take a leading role in the Orthodox world. This puts them at loggerheads with the various schismatic movements and competing centers of influence.

The war has only exacerbated the political struggle between the various Church’s, which is not good news for the Russian Orthodox Church’s ambitions.

But, for conservative-minded people who were concerned about the course that the Church would take in the coming years, the recent developments are cause to rejoice. The Russian Orthodox Church will be forced to harden-up, turn away from cooperating with the West and clamp down on liberal-minded clergy like Metropolitan Hilarion. As I have stressed before in previous essays, the sanctions and the aggression of the West against Russia have led to improvements across the board in various institutions and an embrace of patriotic ideas by society at large.

(Republished from The Occidental Observer by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. Uncoy says: • Website

    Thanks for the great summary Rolo. Wrote a longer comment but the comment ID software hijacked and deleted it.

    • Replies: @Emslander
  2. Rolo, is/has there been in Russian orthodoxy tolerance for western-style sexual politics up to and including trans and homosexual behaviors and dogma?

    • Replies: @GomezAdddams
  3. nosods says:

    “Metropolitan Hilarion… has now been stripped of his positions and sent to Hungary, where he won’t be able to cause any trouble in Russia, which is welcome news indeed.”

    He could not have been randomly reassigned. For Hilarion to be “sent”, i.e. banished, to Hungary is hilarious! The worldly way of casting him into purgatory. Not only is Hungary’s Orthodox population miniscule but Orban’s Hungary is Russia’s closest EU ally. Hungary has repeatedly vetoed EU sanctions against Patriarch Kirill. But today, the UK did impose their own sanctions on Kirill. A spokesman for the Russian Orthodox Church issued a statement in response to these latest sanctions which included: “The Church — especially now — is the last bridge, the means of communication, which they are trying to destroy for some reason. It may be needed only by those political forces who have made escalation of conflict and alienation of peace their important goal.”

    In the UK or anywhere else in the West, Hilarion would be a hero; but let’s see him deal with Orban! Pax vobiscum.

    • Replies: @bispora
  4. I shake my head at all these old clowns dressed up like characters from a Harry Potter movie, who think that they can condemn such and such a person to hell or ban such and such a group from communion just because they don’t agree with their opinions at a specific time. These old clowns have no divine sanction or power, and are simply buffoonish self-proclaimed actors playing holy men. None of them have any divinely proclaimed ability to understand the scriptures better than the ordinary person on the street.

  5. Wokechoke says:

    Mobile Church with icons is funny. Like the Triumph of Orthodoxy…

    • Agree: Sollipsist
    • Replies: @Sollipsist
  6. nickels says:

    Bartholemew and his cuck gay girlfriend Elpidophoros have Hilary Clintons ***k so far down their throats that they may as well just go to hell today and save themselves the wait.
    They are quite obviously full on with the New World Satanist American led global order.

    These traitors need to be skinned alive and cast out.

    There is no place for tolerance in Christianity.

    And cuck Hilarion needs to read Ivan Ilyin’s ‘Defence Against Evil by Force’ so he can understand why the satanists will eat lead at the hands of good Christians.

    • Replies: @Peter D. Bredon
  7. G. Poulin says:

    A good litmus test of a clergyman’s loyalties is : how much praise does he get from the rulers of this world? A little grudging respect, he’s probably okay. Effusive praise, and he’s probably a traitorous piece of shit.

  8. Anon001 says:

    Dear Rolo,

    You started great (Hilarion), but then messed up completely when started tackling the rest.

    Couple of main problems with your articles:

    1) Autonomy and Autocephaly are not synonyms in the Orthodox Church.

    2) Bartholomew does not want to be the first among equals, but rather the boss of the “lessers”. That’s just part of Greek’s supremacist, racist, and chauvinist tendencies, that have been causing trouble for all Orthodox (calendar, ecumenism, etc.) as the Greeks kept making many deals with the devil to achieve their OC conquest, as well as to protect themselves from being overrun by Turkey. That is why Greece is completely bankrupt, controlled by the West , owned by the banks, and Bartholomew acts as arrogant yet petty NATO asset. Of course, that’s what happens when you seek devil’s “help”.

    3) Macedonian Church did not split from the Serbian Orthodox Church – it was created as parallel “church” to the Serbian OC by the communists in 1959, and then self-declared autocephaly in 1967. Two Serbian OC patriarchs (Gavrilo and Vikentije) were murdered (poisoned) by the communist dictator and murderer Tito for they refused to establish it on their own and make it autocephalous. The exact same thing, e.g. creating fake orthodox churches within country boundaries, was done in Montenegro not long ago, and in Nazi Croatia during WW2, and others. This Croatian “orthodox” “church” still exists as Catholic Croatia has never been denazified.

    In general, what’s been done to the Orthodox Church is one very simple strategy: Break each OC’s jurisdiction up into smaller pieces, and them make those pieces autocephalous. Divide and conquer. The goal is to have each OC constrained only within its native country boundaries, while all other areas should be under Phanar/ Bartholomew which is under NATO control. E.g. cut Serbian OC from its North Macedonia jurisdiction/territory and make it an autocephalous church, cut Russian OC from its Ukraine jurisdiction/territory and make it an autocephalous church. This is also done to countries as well – cut Serbia’s Province of Kosovo from Serbia and make it a country, cut Panama from Columbia and make it a country, etc.

    Hope this helps – please research properly before writing about it.

  9. RogerL says:

    Many of the religious differences, which are ignored by the global elite, are deeply tied into the local cultures. The universal religion elitists also heavily distort the actual religious views of ordinary people so that the religious “common ground” becomes very centric to the worldview of those elitists.

    Suppressing the essential cultural/religious beliefs of ordinary people is basically cultural genocide, which is just fine with the one-world elitists. I’m disabled by PTSD, and part of what caused that was violent cultural genocide, so I’m a bit sensitive about that issue.

    One thing I admire about Russia is they let each person make their own choices about their personal life. They might not approve of those choices, but they mostly don’t persecute people for the personal choices they make.

    I’m not even christian, but I’d much rather live in a world dominated by the family-oriented Russian Orthodox Church, than the, soulless, neoliberal fascists dominating the west coast of North America.

    What confused me for a long time is I’m a liberal circa about 1900 – I grew up in a time warp of sorts. I believe everybody has a right to vote, in a solid free education for those willing to do the work, raising up the next generation to be solid citizens, and that workers should be paid a livable wage that supports a healthy family, and they shouldn’t be exploited by their employers. Basically neoliberals believe the opposite of all this. Unfortunately in the US, no group is supporting all of these values anymore. So I keep wondering, where is my cultural home now?

    The Russian Orthodox Church is heavy handed about defining as sin the church politics and dogma they disagree with, and not paying enough attention to being a steward for their community.

    Still, in a surprising turn of events, as I work to be pragmatic about the real world, I find myself cheering on the Russian Orthodox Church.

  10. “…against Russians’ right to own firearms by claiming that no Christian can use deadly force to defend their lives. I do not know whether or not this is theologically correct,…”

    Yes, you do know what is correct…, (every time you find the right time to think about it). Let me do some thinking here (hopefully in service to you and or the ones making the effort to read and understand?):
    1. The first point is to understand what “life” is. Life starts with the heart beating. The heart starts beating with the entrance of the soul into the body. Such life is God given (re. “soul-life”) meaning the attackers’ and the defenders’ life is God given. Go(o)d is life and life is Go(o)d. Soul is (on earth life). Soul comes into earthly bodies to learn, to ripen, to detach from lust, greed, anger, attachment and ego. Every earthly body dies and soul returns for the better or worse.

    [MORE]

    2. If one (attacker) goes after the God given life of the other (defender), the attacker tries to take from the other (defender) his natural right (to his, the defenders’ God given life [of soul]); the right to this learning life given by God (Soul).
    3. By attacking the attacker is playing God. The attacker wants to take what he can neither produce nor give (soul-life) apart from his own take per suicide (but that is a further subject). Should one willfully meddle with what one can never produce, never give, never own and actually never destroy? Soul-Life! If the attacker wants to end the soul-life of the other (defender) he is basically taking charge (charging the other) of the other’ life. He is playing God, because only God gives (soul-) life and God takes (soul-) life back.
    5. The attacker takes the other’s (soul-) life where to? He can take it no-where. Where is no? The no is with the attacker’s whereabouts. That is why soldiers have nightmares. Regularly appear those that have been killed through the soldiers’ hands (mostly in quiet but also in impossible moments, depending on the taken life/souls’ sufferings). The attacker “looses his own” (soul) with the other. The other, the defender, becomes quasi part of the attacker. The attacker had the other’s life in his hands (re. POWs as totally surrendered) and in the case of killing has to deal with the violently separated soul of the defender and much less if the POW stays alive. But there are as many variations as there are individual souls (individual in bodies and “individual” as long as there is lust, greed, anger, attachment and ego on the unpurified soul).
    6. Purification: “the clean kill”. Right is pure. God is right. The right law is Go(o)d or the good law (versus “our rules” – our will, our lust, greed, anger, attachments and ego). The clean kill is the defender defending his God given life and killing the attacker in the course of encounter. The “attacker” can be the factual defender in the case of (en-) countering.
    7. If I do not defend, if I allow my life to be taken by the other earthling – on earth lesser than God – God let him down (onto earth) like me – “me, myself and I” are giving up what God has given to soul (God) in me. Who am I to not defend God’s given life? Surrendering (willfully) appears as bad as attacking (willfully). Let Thy will be, because it is Thy given life, God’s soul-life instead of “my will”. That is why suicide is worse than killing the other.
    8. Natural countries have a soul too. Natural countries are natural habitats (e.g. the Northern Plain – “Urvolk / Urland“) with natural populations are naturally (godly) ensouled.
    9. Russia: Russians are being attacked (in the case of Donbass since 2014). So, who are todays Russians to give a shit about todays’ Russians’ God given lives? The Russian counter to the killing of their ensouled brother and sisters in Donbass – forceful evictions of souls (out of their God given bodily lives) – is standing up for what God has given. Otherwise why should God give life to me and mine if we give a shit about it? To give a shit about it? Is God a waster? Is God waste? Is soul waste? Never!
    Interestingly enough Russian lives are increasing (the birth rate is climbing) while half of Ukraine emptied itself, left the country, left natural roots (in lust, greed, anger, attachments and ego to “better” lives abroad?), while Russians returned home in large numbers (apart from a few super egos fooling westward and suffering uprooting hell in old age?).
    God has given a lot of iron to Russians/Russia. That iron is to be used. That life is to be defended and fought for. “I defend what my father has given to me.” I defend what my father has died for if it was and is in The Right. “The heart in the right place”. (The heart can actually beat in the right side of the chest.)
    The priest (“priests & politicians”) is wrong in thinking (stinking all over the place from Vilnius to Moscow and back and where not?) that Russians should not own firearms. Russians must mould, own and use their God given iron (rightly).
    God is not the ruler on earth. On earth the fallen angel rules foremost. God’s souls are here to show the bastard the good in working good instead of playing God, not messing around like the fallen angel’s chewed in Kiew and where not?!
    10. “Holding the other cheek”: Russia is holding the other cheek towards Ukraine by sending many of its most loyal (mostly young, innocent) men and women – God given children (the other cheek) – towards Ukraine. It is what “holding the other cheek” really means. Russians/Russia are willing to die for God’s gift. That is Christian, that is Nazarean;

    The mentioned priest (“Hilarion” – hilarious for Nazi’s sake, for Christ’s sake that is) is – as you pointed out a “liber-al”, meaning liable everywhere and really nowhere and asking to follow his bad example of being outplaced. So it seems right that he is pulled down from his lofty lusts and opinions (opi-ums) onto his feet (cleaning monastery toilets?) getting based (?).

  11. @Anon001

    Research can be unending, such one could never write and nothing would be shared.
    I see yours as an add-on, an addition and maybe a clarification of a point or more.
    Leave Rolo alone, all one that is (maybe plus your additions).

  12. anonymous[240] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s time to walk away from this kind of nonsense. It’s time to accept the difficult fact that, although we really ultimately do need and crave spirituality in our lives, with a ‘god-shaped hole’ if it is not there –

    It is time to jettison and discredit the Jewish-based religions with their horrifying, child-terrorising ‘eternal hell’ concepts (Christianity and Islam), and the disgusting, traumatising cult of genital mutilation of baby boy children, the ‘circumcision’ of the ugly ‘holy books’

    The West needs to assemble its own version of the Asian reincarnation religions, with the yogic-meditation practices of ancient India much incorporated

    In the Hindu Bhagavad Gita, Krishna tells warrior Arjuna:

    “Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.”

  13. SIMP simp says:

    In modern times there is an alignment between the orthodox church and the nation state which leads to the creation of de facto and de jure independent national orthodox churches, led by their own patriarch. This nationalism comes against the universalist tendencies of christianity and traditions but it has a positive role as a bulwark against globalism.
    For me the ideal is to have the nation, the state and the church overlap perfectly between the same borders.
    It is only natural that as ukrainians are seeking to establishing a nation state that they seek to also establish a national orthodox church like almost all orthodox countries have.

    • Agree: Bardon Kaldian
  14. Does anyone know if Mr. Unz has a policy against linking the writers’ blogs?

    Because I’d really love to have my blog linked at the top of these articles.

    https://roloslavskiy.substack.com/

  15. Dumbo says:

    Good riddance to that vaccine-loving priest.

    • Replies: @Kurt Knispel
  16. Very interesting article. Now when the word ecumenism is used, what exactly meant by that? Being raised Roman Catholic but very sympathetic to Orthodoxy, I have a problem with the way ecumenism has played out in the RC church. It has led to an erosion of traditional beliefs and morals (this part could be said for all of Christianity) culminating in Vatican II and all that has emanated from it. If I were a RC priest and wanted to participate in some kind of community project with the local Protestant churches (ie a soup kitchen, or homeless shelter) – fine. These kinds of interactions are beneficial to everyone in lessening biases. But to water down traditional religious practices in order to make things appear less strange to other religious groups is where I see the danger. Traditionally, the Roman Church has the same belief as the Orthodox in regard to the reception of holy communion. Try to receive the eucharist in an Orthodox on a whim. The priest and the deacon will bluntly ask if you are Orthodox and when was the last time you went to confession. In the Roman church, any bozo can get on the communion line and take the wafer in his hand and nothing will be said by anyone. That’s just one example.

    • Replies: @NIdahoCatholic
  17. @anonymous

    Indian religions don’t work for white people except for those empty-headed, self-hating types that will latch onto anything that passes for non-western “enlightenment”. Europeans had their own religions before Christianity that ranged from the Greek, Roman and Germanic pantheon of gods to the Celtic Wicca. Those religions are much better suited to the European race soul than the Indian religions.

    • Replies: @Odyssey
  18. @Joe Paluka

    “Who invited God’s boyfriends?” — Khrushchev at Stalin’s funeral when the holy Joe Patriarchs show up (Stalin himself had banished them, now Beria brought them back to curry favor with the religious mob) in The Death of Stalin. (Possibly fictional, but a good line)

  19. @nickels

    Bartholemew and his cuck gay girlfriend Elpidophoros

    That’s the appeal of Orthodoxy to Westerners: even the catfights sound like the New Testament.

  20. @Anon001

    As per usual, article on Christianity as our last hope is torpedoed by in-fighting within 8 comments. Good luck with that solution, guys. One religion gets its snout in the public square again, the bloodshed will remind everyone of why it was banned.at Westphalia.

    • Replies: @Anon001
    , @nokangaroos
  21. Protogonus says: • Website

    Mr. Slavskiy obviously well-knows the people and politics of his country’s religion (nothing wrong with that) but evidently is unaware that the Philosophy of Religion has long ago analyzed and solved the entire difficulty of sects, churches, and denominations in favor of Lord Jesus understood as the eternal Heart of God whose Kingdom–as He emphasized–is not of this World. Strictly speaking, this involves the creative merger of dicta from three great idealists–Boehme, Hegel, and Fichte:

    https://www.academia.edu/41745763/How_the_German_Spirit_Died_A_History_

    Also, the same Philosophy of Religion has long understood the real causes of the 1st schism (1053 A.D.) and the 2nd schism (1517 A.D.), full understanding of which can easily reconcile the Romanists, the Orthodox, and the Protestants (aside from an Eternally Exiled Calvinist remainder) and (as mentioned) allow all the world’s Believers (Islamic, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, and even Judaist) to unite and profess the Ultimate Reality as Divinely Triune without any trace of idolatry:

    https://www.academia.edu/37362600/Carlyle_and_the_Idea

    It is very important to understand precisely who and what Lord Jesus was back then and is now with respect to us, looking back as we do on a mostly manufactured, self-serving religious history that can hardly withstand close scrutiny and should be dismissed by all clerics if they be sane:

    https://www.academia.edu/50785276/Critical_Analysis_of_Hartmanns_Life_of_Jehoshua

    Finally, with a close and worried look at the current convergence of world events toward World War, to understand how we got here is, of course, vitally necessary for Believers and Non-Believers:

    https://www.academia.edu/76372363/To_Sevastopol_With_Love

    As for where we are going, opinions of great minds from the 17th to the 20th centuries have coalesced around a Terminal Idea, a brief exposition of which will surprise ordinary readers but not Unz.Com diehards:

    https://www.academia.edu/74111120/The_Last_Act_Red_Alert_

    We wish Mr. Slavskiy and his friends all the best under the circumstances, which does not, unfortunately, allow much optimism for worldly improvement but firmly promises imminent blossoming of Eternal Life in God, an outcome that always was foreordained but was too often missed.

  22. The case of St. Francis of Assisi is a good example. The Orthodox Church considers him to be a fake saint because he acted like a rock star during his day and basically overdid his whole act.

    Maybe a tangent but I would like to see more on this. Anybody know a pertinent link?

    • Replies: @Anne Lid
  23. Odyssey says:
    @Joe Paluka

    Obviously, you don’t know many things. The instant Greek pantheon is a replica of the much older pantheon of indigenous people who lived in today’s Greece, before Greek migrants came to Europe. If you knew this, you would be asking yourself how Greeks (they still did not have this name) could have Olympic pantheon during the Trojan war, almost 1000 years before they actually saw the Mt Olympus. Even the mainstream asserts that Zeus was the ‘indo-european’ (whatever does it mean) deity, while the original, future Greeks were neither ‘indo-europeans’ nor white. Roman pantheon was a replica of Greeks’ replica pantheon. Indian Vedic mythology was brought to S.Asia by Aryans so as the language. It means that this mythology was also brought from Europe. A careful reader can find parallels between Iliad and Mahabharata because they originated from the same cultural source. Germanic pantheon?

    • Replies: @Joe Paluka
    , @Kim
  24. anon[319] • Disclaimer says:

    Hilarion and Bartholomew, seems 2 weasels in the house.

    Send each to a hut somewhere on Athos.

    Commune with trees.

    • Replies: @Kurt Knispel
  25. Odyssey says:

    There are many differences between Catholic and Orthodox Churches but the biggest is that RC has imperial character, they raised a man above the God and declared him infallible, they do not recognize the Holy Spirit. They have a corporate and colonial character, don’t want to be equal with other religions and in every country, they require a special status above all other religions. Basically, they operate as a state within a state, having own banks, investments, courts, education, diplomacy, marketing/lobby companies, media, hospitals, inquisition, political parties, secret service, army (crusaders), etc. In several centuries after the split up to today, they were considered as heretics by Orthodoxies.

    The ecumenism for RC is the conversion of Orthodoxies and subjugating them. This blackmail was used on many occasions, every time when Orthodox population was threatened. The classic cases are when Ottomans invaded Europe and they left Serbs to bleed alone on the frontier without willing to help them. Serbs defended Europe from Islam, but they were decimated and never recovered biologically after that.

    On the second occasion, they were blessing Catholics Croats monstrous genocide conducted on Serbs during the ww2, where more than a million and a half of Serbs were killed and where hundreds of Catholic priests were involved literally with knives in their hands, while RC followed killers by converting under duress the remaining Serbs to Catholicism. It is also still in memory the Catholics barbaric sack of Constantinople in 1204, which opened the door for Islam to penetrate Europe.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
  26. Anon001 says:
    @Peter D. Bredon

    Can’t leave incorrect information mislead people even when unintentional and written in good faith as it seems with this article.

    What other solution do you propose when faced with incorrect info regarding such important topic as Orthodox Christianity? I’m all ears, as they say.

  27. @Odyssey

    By shooting off like that and insulting me, you show that you have limited social and debating skills.

    I’m not going to waste my time debating theology or anything else with you.

    • Replies: @Odyssey
    , @CelestiaQuesta
  28. Odyssey says:
    @Joe Paluka

    Having noticed your lack of knowledge was not an insult.
    Stay cool and have a nice life, Joey!

  29. @anon

    NO!

    Do you know how beautiful Athos is?

    Send both into Donbass to work! Before one can do clean work one has to clean up. Kyrill might want to send both to clean public bathrooms in the Donbass (the private ones have been destroyed, because Russia was 8 long years very “Christian”?).

    • Replies: @anon
  30. @anonymous

    Some Indians say that Krishna was one in two times when things were so bad that God himself took on a human form (in the body of “Krishna”). The other “God incarnation” I have forgotten…
    “Krishna” seems still awesome today (in India). India is loyal to Russia, India has a long memory (Lavrov said)… It certainly can be a fascinating country, but the most fascinating country is always the country ones forbears, which makes it very hard for migrants’ children and natives of host countries…

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  31. @Peter D. Bredon

    The Westphalian principle was cuius regio, eius religio i.e. religion
    is a matter of the state or what the “ortho”dox now have.
    The Thirty Years´War was a very teachable moment – the Catholics
    aspired to upkeep the claim to (literal) Universalism (as did, to a degree, the
    Patriarchy of Constantinople but Moscow has failed to attain the same legitimacy)
    but learned the hard way to stay out of politics, and any claim to being the
    Final Opinionator – Roma locuta, causa finita – would now be laughed
    off the stage.
    The problem with the Orthodox is they want it all
    national and universal = “Everybody is now a Serb, or else”;
    the centuries of Turkish rule have left marks.
    Speaking of which, Macedonia was Bulgarian orthodox before they were
    Christianized at gunpoint 100 years ago so the Serbs are the behind-next-to-last
    to bitch about being Christianized in turn by the Croats.

    Seen from Counterreformation Country ™ all that is mildly amusing;
    the way I read Scripture the commands are Universalist but anyone with
    a different/alternative Bible feel free to enlighten me 😀

    • Replies: @Odyssey
  32. @Kurt Knispel

    There have been nine avataras (incarnations) of Vishnu to date –
    as a turtle, as “Prince Rama with the hatchet” etc.
    The Tenth Coming is a messianic prophesy (“at the end of the yuga,
    Kalkin the Avenger will rise; he will scour the Earth with fiery wagons of war
    and eradicate the impure”) If that doesn´t sound familiar to a German 😀
    There´s still a tiny Vaishnava sect who believe Hitler was the Tenth Avatar.

    • Replies: @Kurt Knispel
  33. Anne Lid says:
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    http://orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/francis_sarov.aspx

    I just found this through Yandex. I usually listen to videos and podcasts (attention span of a gnat), and heard two different Orthodox believers scoff at St. Francis. One mentioned an episode when he ate somethin during fast, and after made a bit of a spectacle humiliating himself in atonement. The Orthodox said a normal person would just have said “I’m no good anyway”. The story is recounted in detail in the above link.

    • Thanks: Emil Nikola Richard
  34. anon[391] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kurt Knispel

    A much better suggestion.

  35. @nokangaroos

    Is Vishnu what we call God?
    If Hitler was an Avatar (devine teacher?) he was certainly very much disguised.
    An amazing American woman once said, that no one brought as many people to God as Hitler did…
    I would like to think that Stalin and Moses Tung (aka Mao Tsetung) would have outdone the Adi…
    I have also come to know that Adi is actually in hell and freezing.
    Even without that knowledge, just looking at the deeds, Adi was mediocre and opened the gates of hell for my people to be dumped into. (Hope the Putin stays cool with dumb Lithuania).
    Now we have a so called “Avatar” in a government of lackeys over the German remnants. He postures as minister of finance and was in a former incarnation a rip off merchant sucking away gvt grants with fake companies, one of them called Avatar something or the other Ltd. His name is Lindner aka “the Avatar”.

    • Replies: @Anne Lid
    , @nokangaroos
  36. “We have to pray for our warriors”

    I like the Kyrill. He is a good man, a serious Go(o)d man is what I think I can hear in his voice (without understanding the language).

    (I like the Russian Forces. I wish their grandfathers would have been like the Grand Sons.)

  37. Anne Lid says:
    @Kurt Knispel

    (Sorry for the dumb question, but how do you know that AH is freezing? And what was the betrayal? It’s not like he had too many choices imho.)

    • Replies: @Kurt Knispel
  38. @Kurt Knispel

    That´s the myth you meant, yes; it´s also where the word avatar comes from
    (“incarnation” is the best translation I could come up with – “emanation” maybe).
    The Vaishnava regard Vishnu as the highest aspect of God
    (maybe Malla is firmer in the actual theology – Neohinduism is complicated);
    Gandhi was a Vaishnava, though strongly influenced by Jaina thought.

    – I will not speculate about the Great One´s current whereabouts, but there´s
    this ancient joke about a bishop and a bus driver at the Pearly Gates; the
    bus driver gets in, the bishop doesn´t. The bishop complains, and Petrus
    explains: “When you preached all the people slept; but when he drove
    all the people prayed.”

    (As for the political situation I refer you to the last stanza of Wir sind des Geyers
    schwarzer Haufen 😀 All the best)

  39. Odyssey says:
    @nokangaroos

    One famous poet said: ‘Croats are the bravest people in the world, not because they are not afraid of anything, but because they are not ashamed of anything!’

    Even before ww2 genocide conducted on Serbs and the greatest atrocities conducted in human history in Jasenovac, Croats were already known as the only group in the world which could be qualified as ‘genocidal’.

    It is well known, for e.g., the sack of Magdeburg, the event which is considered the worst massacre of the Thirty Years’ War. According to the book European Stage (1653, 1679, Frankfurt), the Croats committed the most horrific atrocities in the German city of Magdeburg, after which a slogan and a prayer to God, known throughout Europe under the slogan: “God save us from plague, famine and Croats’, which is engraved above the door of the Magdeburg church.

    Namely, in 1630, the Croats entered this East German city and according to the writing of the European Stage as a historical source, the following happened:

    “Then the robbery, kidnapping, mutilation, raping of girls and women started, and they acted horribly and horribly in every way. In the church of Catherine, they severely beheaded fifty-three people, mostly women, where they were found dead with their arms bent and folded. Some women were executed by tyrannical soldiers during childbirth. It is not possible to describe or say at all what misery, misery and sorrow it was… They took many women and virgins with them to the camp with some men, tied with chains. Women were raped here in their devilish lust in a miserable way, that many, especially little girls of ten or twelve, who also did not spare, had to pay with their heads… ”

  40. Kim says:
    @Odyssey

    Pajeetism is a syndrome marked by a condition of chronic and persistent nervous breakdown wherein the narcissistic yet self-doubting pajeet frets at the feelings of inferiority provoked by the cultural irrelevance of pajeetworld to Europe and at every opportunity insists that in reality it is the wellspring of everything European. The syndrome is presently regarded as incurable.

    • Replies: @Odyssey
  41. Kim says:
    @Odyssey

    One famous poet, huh? Was it Tennyson?

  42. @Anon001

    Thanks for this correction.

    Mr. Slavskiy supplies some interesting details but clearly needs a refresher on Orthodox Church structure, notably the difference between autonomy and autocephaly, as well as the status of Met. Onufry’s canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church in relation to Moscow, as opposed to the uncanonical bodies headed by “Filaret” Denisenko (“Kyiv Patriarchate”) and Constantinople’s and the US State Department’s protege, “Epifany” Dumenko (“Orthodox Church of Ukraine,” which Mr. Slavskiy doesn’t mention).

    The crisis in the Orthodox Church was and is an integral element in the march of folly that has brought Ukraine to its current, tragic juncture. However, I suggest that when the military and political situation finally shakes out, the Church’s status in Ukraine (whether or not any Ukrainian state exists at that point) will also be simplified.

    If I may say so myself, the following (from 2019) gives a somewhat better “can’t know the players without a program” explanation:

    https://chroniclesmagazine.org/web/whats-really-behind-the-state-departments-meddling-in-ukraine/

    • Replies: @Anon001
  43. bispora says:
    @nosods

    Orbán will have little to do with Hilarious’ life in Hungary. In the Hungarian Catholic Church, there are also liberal high priests who are free to campaign even in clericals that are against the interests of the country. As an example, there is Bishop Beer Milkós, who acted as a Soros activist during the 2015 migration crisis and has been a constant critic of the government ever since.

  44. GMC says:

    Good article – The Orthodox church, like any other institution is under covert special ops against it – just like governments and people of the world are. This is what we are seeing – and it’s complicated for just that purpose.

    Personally , the only thing that the Russian Orthodox leaders should be exposing is Good vs Evil and that is very visible in Ukraine and anything coming from the West. They certainly should have seen the Covid as a very fast moving bioweapon, and an evil plague bought to us by the never ending evil ones in the world. Maybe they were convinced by someone in the Gov. or they just bought into this is a real killer plague. Of course Influenza, was deleted and Covid was put in it’s place , but that should been easy to spot.

    Soldiers, along with the populace, need to have their Honest Church next to them , when fighting for their Homeland. The Church in Ukraine must have been Blind – not to see what was happening in Ukraine and Who was behind it – afterall, when 5 Oligarchs running Kiev are Jewish and run and hide in Israel – maybe the Ukie Orthodox church should have hopped a flight to Tel Aviv – also.

    • Agree: Arthur MacBride
    • Replies: @Brad Anbro
  45. Anon[309] • Disclaimer says:

    The war party and their Anti-Christian partners spend a lot of energy on dividing the various Orthodox Churches through use of Quislings. Fortunately, as this article illuminates our Churches are now aware enough to stop this destructive division.

    Be sensitive to those who seek to divide and conquer.

  46. Christian old farts not getting vaccinated in Eastern Europe should be encouraged because we need to get rid of this boomer trash

    • Replies: @Dave Wightman
  47. Orthodox hierarchies have been infiltrated by globalist scum. Free-masons and sodomites have proliferated. The Serbian Orthodox Church for instance is infested with globohomo “brothers”. Where the leadership is patriotic like in Russia, the church can resist, where it isn’t like in Serbia, the patriarch is a closeted gay free-mason. Members of the church are no better than the medical community. There’s wheat but there’s a lot, lot of chaff. Their declaration of faith has about as much worth as the Hippocratic oath has for doctors nowadays.
    Being a Christian today means being ready to not only ignore but to go openly against what the church professes. Like in the time of Christ, merchants are in the temple.
    With regards to Hilarion, good riddance.

    • Replies: @Anon
  48. @anonymous

    Hinduism often leads individual people who engage in it(or some forms of it) to marvellous accomplishments for themselves and for humanity, but as a whole, as a pervasive view of the world, it always lead to a callous society where the public opinion just doesn’t care. It leads to the formation of intellectual elites that feel entitled like the Jews or worse.

  49. Anonymous[369] • Disclaimer says:
    @Joe Paluka

    I’m not Orthodox but Catholic and therefore I view Orthodoxy on pretty much the same level (the only legit church besides RCC). We’re just split for now (schism).

    …who think that they can condemn such and such a person to hell or ban …

    Only God condemns to hell by an individual’s free choice and his or her rejection of God.

    These old clowns have no divine sanction or power, and are simply buffoonish self-proclaimed actors playing holy men.

    They do, and that authority was granted and handed down by Christ. Mt. 16:18.

    None of them have any divinely proclaimed ability to understand the scriptures better than the ordinary person on the street.

    The scriptures come from the Church and it is only through that lens that the scriptures can be properly understood. The Church existed prior the the New Testament being written and its canon determined. The same Holy Spirit which guided the Church in determining that the Gospel of John should be in the canon but not the Gospel of Thomas or Gospel of Mary is the same Holy Spirit which guides the Church in probably understanding the scriptures.

    • Thanks: Emslander
    • Replies: @Joe Paluka
  50. The Church has to be careful not to get too political – J.C.: “My Kingdom is not of this world;” but I suggest it ought to discourse about the Just War conditions as given by Thomas Aquinas. These do I suggest apply to Russia’s Limited Military Operation in the Ukraine. Thus,

    1. wars are just when they are in defense of the common good.
    b. the violence and discord of a people is always wrong when “it is contrary to the unity of the multitude, which is a manifest good.”
    Friends and allies: Nation A may justly war on nation B to defend nation C. (See Thomas Aquinas, ST II-II, 188, 3 ad 1)
    C. The combatants in a just war must have right intentions.
    1. just reasons include
    a. Secure peace.
    b. Punish evil-doers.
    c. Uplifting of good.
    Combatants must respect non-combatants.
    a. Combatants who cease to be such.
    i. Surrendering.
    ii. Wounded.
    b. A nation can never justly target civilians.
    i. Civilian casualties, while foreseeable, cannot be intended.
    ii. Measures must be taken to minimize civilian casualties.
    Proportionality: the good to be achieved outweighs the evil of war.
    a. One cannot war justly over a slight cause.
    (i. War is a last resort.)
    (ii. There must be a reasonable hope of success; one cannot engage in justified, but hopeless actions.)
    b. One may only use the minimal force necessary to achieve just ends
    https://aquinasonline.com/just-war/

    • Thanks: nokangaroos, Bubba
    • Replies: @Rogue
  51. @Makeitfaster

    ‘we’? Aren’t you man enough to take out the boomers yourself? You need someone else to do it for you? You seem serious, so why aren’t you just walking down the street slugging or stabbing the elderly from behind like the rest of the brave dreadlocks-wearin plumbers-butt showin smelly-ass hero niggas? Oh- let’s not forget kickin them in the head when they are down. That would be your style wouldn’t it? Maybe is you got a gew more vaccinations, you would finally be man enough to step up to the task! I mean, after all, it’s your duty to take out boomer trash- right?

    • Thanks: Arthur MacBride
  52. @Odyssey

    – Armies of the time were described thusly: “so-and-so many infantry, cavalry,
    artillery, besides Croats“. As I said they were Austria´s Chechens
    (and being put under Hungarian administration in 1867 was a blow to
    their egos). Not that the Swedes were better; or anyone else for that matter.
    (historical cherrypicking is a popular pastime but impresses no one – not here)
    It was so bad it gave birth to modern international law (that ended with the
    War of Northern Aggression and the demand for “unconditional surrender”
    previously reserved for pirates and mutineers).

    [MORE]

    – With Jews as with Serbs the Faith sustained them during rather trying
    times but in the process became somewhat … wacky. The Bosniaks
    were Croats who converted because the Turks were markedly less intolerant
    (or look what the Ruskies did to the Old Believers).

    My point is that a certain cynicism is in order: Our people became Lutherans
    and Hussites on their own but Catholic and Orthodox under duress;
    Francis of Assisi and Sergij of Voronezh are not some bloody standards to bash
    each other over the detz with (though I agree with #21 Protogonus that the
    Calvinist abomination is destined for Hellfire).
    Tito tried to iron (heh) it over but failed, despite blaming it all on the Svaba
    and even sponsoring a Slovenian insurrection in rump Carinthia
    (Mustafa Kemal also didn´t live long enough but the Army remained loyal
    to his testament).
    There was no “outside” interest in breaking up Yugoslavia (except for a few
    (((Americans))) wishing to humiliate Russia), it was homemade
    (I distinctly remember a waiter during the war opening his heart …
    “My father´s family calls me an Ustashi, my mother´s a Cetnik,
    I am a Yugoslav, what am I supposed to say?!”).
    Of course it is desirable to have ein Volk, ein Reich, one religion,
    but it has left Serbia in a rather unpopular minority.
    And now we are seeing the same idiocy play out in the Ukraine
    (this time definitely not homemade, Jews & Poles).
    For Chrissake, leave at least His Church out of it.

    • Replies: @Passing By
  53. Odyssey says:
    @Kim

    Have you recognised yourself above? I think, you have! It is a shame you didn’t recognize that poet, too.

  54. The Orthodox Church has in its favor not having participated in the great crimes of the Roman Christian Church such as the Inquisition, the Genocide of non-whites, slavery and German Nazism.

  55. Thirdtwin says:

    Vlad’s riding the Metro pretty hard.

  56. Emslander says:
    @Uncoy

    I have two rules.

    1. If a priest begins to make declarations that have purely political meaning, like the Pope saying that we’ve got to cut back on economic freedom in order to fight Global Warming, I ignore him. They never understand the evils behind political conveniences.

    2. If a journalist begins to describe religious truths, like this guy saying that Francis of Assisi was believed by the Catholic Church to be a saint before he died, I ignore him with prejudice. Most likely, this entire article is balderdash.

    • Replies: @Gg Mo
  57. Men In Robes, someone should make a movie about these glorious holy men in robes. How playing God’s emissaries on earth allows them to invoke personal warped ideologies into their followers. In other words, Pirates of the Word of God. Evangelicals and Orthodox Judaism come to mind, both prostitutes spreading Zionists propaganda via Christianity and Abrahamic theocracies.

    Most religious rituals and ceremonies remind me big Hollywood show pieces. Waiting for the big guy in the sky to show up is big business, while the real big guys suck you dry by using you as fodder for their global feeder.

  58. @Odyssey

    blessing Catholics Croats monstrous genocide conducted on Serbs during the ww2

    You left out the part where they smuggled the war criminals to South America and cheated the hangman.

    Ratlines.

    • Agree: Odyssey
  59. @GMC

    “The Church in Ukraine must have been Blind”

    No more blind (silent) than the majority of the churches here in the United States as to what has been and is happening to our country in particular and throughout the world in general…

    • Agree: nokangaroos, GMC
  60. @nokangaroos

    Actually, there was outside interest and I know it for a fact as I have seen with my own eyes documents that prove it. Separatism in Yugoslavia has been supported by both the USA and Germany. Without foreign interference and without foreign material support for the most extremist political options, Yugoslavia probably wouldn’t have remained whole but the break-up would have been nowhere near as bloody.

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
    , @Anon001
  61. geokat62 says:

    If the goal is to create a one world religion to go along with the one world government, as many believe it is, then the final product would resemble the Noahide Laws.

    Perhaps the author could expand on this intriguing point in a future article?

  62. Dimitrios Arhondonis was born in Turkey and most likely, a descendant of Sabbatai Zevi, Dönmeh.

  63. Anon[309] • Disclaimer says:
    @Passing By

    The new Serbian Orthodox Patriarch is cleaning out the Quislings PDQ. He’s a good one.

    • Replies: @Passing By
    , @j3
  64. Rogue says:
    @Nick Kollerstrom

    As much as I agree with what you’ve written, it has to be said that war brutalizes and noble aspirations and intentions tend to fly out the window pretty fast.

    As an example, if you’ve ever read the book Black Hawk Down, you’ll see how the American soldiers initially tried to differentiate between civilians and combatants – but eventually they just let fly at any Somalis they saw (Somali combatants were hiding amongst women and children).

    There are a zillion stories and anecdotes from various modern conflicts where rules of war and generally accepted guidelines simply become ignored.

    Western politicians often seem to think you can have “clean” war.

    No such thing. War is dirty and you can’t pick up a turd by the clean end.

    I’m not a pacifist, did military service in my country many years ago and would have shot at the enemy if ordered to do so – but most wars are just about economics and little else.

    In hindsight, very few are justified.

    • Replies: @Sgt York
  65. @Passing By

    Thanks, but the Germans do not have enough foreign policy agency
    for that; I know they supplied the Kosovo Albanians, yes.

    • Replies: @Passing By
  66. @Anon

    Seriously? Keep on drinking Vučić’s kool-aid, we’ll see where that leads you.

  67. @nokangaroos

    Of course they don’t have the agency. They were just allowed by Americans to believe for a while that they had, so that if things had gone wrong, they would have borne the blame.

  68. bwuce wee says:

    did you ever think that the guys were demoted and or booted because of molesting children, or being gay? because that stuff putin no like! and you never heard of a cover story before? a government says something- and you believe it? because governments wouldn’t lie- would they?

  69. Anon001 says:

    Rolo, you mentioned Noahide Laws. Have you listened these 2 interviews [1][2]? Both feature Michael Witcoff, born Jewish, former freemason, and now an Orthodox Christian! In one he’s an interviewer, in the other an interviewee. Very interesting talks.

    [1] Interview with the Author Of “Kabbalah Secrets” (audio only, 53 mins) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp3vY1jjXeM

    [2] Former Mason/Occultist finds Orthodoxy – Michael Witcoff (audio only, 90 mins)

  70. @JustBrooklyn Here

    Not all Catholics are onboard with “ecumenism” and Vatican 2. There is a growing number of people who attend exclusively the Tridentine Latin Mass and believe and live as faithful Catholics did before the asteroid strike known as the Second Vatican Council. We are noted for large families and long lines for confession. Most homeschool, eat healthy and reject most if not all of what passes for “culture” these days. Very, very few of us have taken the Bill Gates ClotShot. As a “Trad” Catholic I have a lot of respect for Russia’s apparent rejection of the Davos “rules based order,” and pray for wisdom and safety of their president.

    • Thanks: Arthur MacBride
    • Replies: @Backward
  71. Agent76 says:

    Jun 21, 2022 Welcome to Ukraine: celeb visits, banned books, ethnic cleansing, and a broken war effort, sponsored by the Free World Ukraine is a mess

    Ukraine is a total mess. A mess of epic proportions. And sponsored by the “Free World,” which, in 2022, hardly resembles anything having to do with freedom or any semblance of western tradition.

    https://dossier.substack.com/p/welcome-to-ukraine-celeb-visits-banned

    • Replies: @Quartermaster
  72. Anon001 says:
    @Passing By

    Yes, heavily by both. Germany started it, and USA joined as soon as it became serious – as they would not let any good crisis go to waste. Germany hates Orthodox Christian Serbs for it sees them as the main culprits for their WW2 defeat, as they had to allocate many German troops to fight the Serbs, thus less left for attacking Russia. They also had to postpone attacking Russia due to Serbs, which brought them closer to winter, and the rest is WW2 history. Until USA entered WW2, the only nations that fought Nazi Germany for the entire duration of the war were Serbs and Russians.

    Post-WW2, Germany kept quiet until they were allowed to unify (East/West), and then they got back to their beloved and never abandoned ‘Expansion Eastward’ for some extra ‘Living Space’ in the Balkans.

    Vatican and Austria hate Orthodox Christian Serbs with passion too, as Catholic Austro-Hungarian Empire was defeated by the Serbian Army in WW1 and ceased to exist. Plus, Orthodox Christian Serbs are the main obstacle for Vatican’s Catholic expansion plans in that area and direction.

    Things do not get forgotten in Europe. All these parties were involved heavily in Yugoslavia’s destruction.

    Now NATO hates the Serbs too, as a new addition to ever-expanding haters collection, as they fought NATO with great skill and bravery. NATO own reports stated that their effectiveness was only 5% although 13 NATO countries attacked one small country. Plus, at least 2 invisible planes were brought down, as the Serbian Army figured them out, forcing NATO to put them out of commission for the time being. All this was one huge military brass ego crusher and Wesley Clark was not happy, as he also realized onsite that all those destroyed Serbian tanks and planes, CNN showed, were actually decoys and fakes.

    You may notice one strange thing about the civil war in Yugoslavia: All those “oppressed” “victims” in the Balkans were Nazi partners in the WW2 (Catholic Croats, Bosnian Muslims, Muslim Shqiptars/Albanians, Catholic Slovenians), while the “oppressors” and “aggressors” were Serbs that fought against Nazis. And Germany/Austria/Vatican just happened to support in every way possible their “struggle” to free themselves. Germany trained and armed Muslim Shqiptars/Albanians KLA terrorists, and has been supporting them in every other way possible – see video [3].

    Orthodox Russia was on its knees, so it was Orthodox Serbia alone against NATO and the Western mass media that lied endlessly – the very same one of WMD and Incubators Babies fame. Hope this helps. Check two short videos below [1][2]:

    [1] French General Truth About NATO Bombing of Yugoslavia 1999 – English Subtitles Part 1 – YouTube

    [2] French General Truth About NATO Bombing of Yugoslavia 1999 – English Subtitles Part 2 – YouTube

    [3] IT BEGAN WITH A LIE (German documentary with English subs):

    • Thanks: Emil Nikola Richard
    • Replies: @cohen
    , @Rich
  73. @Joe Paluka

    The beauty of UNZ commentariat’s is how well read, informed they are, they truly are gods of knowledge among us lesser souls. The reason CQ keeps returning is all the knowledge they bestow on us without asking for anything.
    Having someone here expand on your comment is not an insult of your debating skills, it’s an expansion of thoughts, history and truths.

    You never stop learning.

    Chill out and enjoy the moment.

    • Replies: @Odyssey
  74. @Anne Lid

    Dear Ann,

    does the comment (Nr. 73) under the following link answer your questions?:

    https://www.unz.com/jfreud/putin-and-hitler-in-the-failure-of-liberal-imagination-problems-of-revisionism-zelensky-and-woody-allens-zelig-or-zeliginsky/#comment-5310116

    A view important points are missing in there. like AH brazingly just “giving” Southern Tyrolia to Italy instead of helping returning Italy from Vatica (as biggest land thief) to the Italians he “gives” Südtirol. Etc. pp.

    My regards to you, to Ungarn and to its very great leader Victor Orban – Sieger (Victor) Orban – such an intelligent man! Today Ungarn is blessed.

    • Thanks: Anne Lid
  75. Anonymous[159] • Disclaimer says:

    The only thing that worries me about Met. Hilarion is his support of the jab. It seems so obviously evil, I wonder how a skilled Christian clergyman could miss it? I do not think it is in any way Christian to abuse him over his left-wing social positions; in fact I think it is anti-Christian.

  76. @Odyssey

    I though Croatian Serbs were the military enforcers in that region while Croats were just simple stable hands of their Austrian superiors, but what would I know? So the stable hands were rounded up and sent to suppress the Protestant uprising while the Serbs were left behind twirling their moustaches.

    • Replies: @j3
    , @Anon001
  77. j3 says:
    @Anon

    He is an ecumenist and pacifist, just like the last one.

  78. @anonymous

    No. What we need to realize is that there is no life after death. Once you come to grips with that, then you realize religions of all kinds make no sense.

  79. j3 says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Serbs could not have fought a religious war of Catholics vs Protestants since they were Orthodox.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  80. @Anonymous

    It just irks me how arrogant and self-righteous some men of the cloth can be and the fancier their vestments, the more arrogant they seem to be. If a priest or pastor is a humble, honest and pius individual, he has my respect.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  81. Backward says:

    “…Knowing what we know about the WEF agenda and the ever-shifting narrative around COVID, it’s hard not to look at Hilarion with suspicion after he so blatantly laid his cards out on the table in favor of Corona-mania…”

    Yet somehow no suspicion towards Putin and the Russian government and advisors who have been equally endorsing the covid and clot-shot narrative. Double standards, anyone?

  82. Backward says:
    @NIdahoCatholic

    What rejection? Putin has endorsed the clot-shot, stated to have taken it himself, and all his talking points are fully on board with Davos. I wish this was not the case, but I don’t mistake desire for reality.

    • Agree: Towey
  83. @Wokechoke

    “How much are your fish tacos?”

  84. Anonymous[165] • Disclaimer says:
    @Joe Paluka

    It just irks me how arrogant and self-righteous some men of the cloth can be and the fancier their vestments, the more arrogant they seem to be. If a priest or pastor is a humble, honest and pius individual, he has my respect.

    These fancy vestments are pro gloria Dei. Being humble toward worship of God is not humility but disrespect for God.

    Who was it who protested the use of fancy expensive oil for ceremony for the glory of God (John 12:3)? 🤔

    • Replies: @Quartermaster
  85. This is a poorly informed article about Hilarion. It doesn’t seem that the author has ever met him.

  86. @Agent76

    The article you cite is simply Russian agitprop.

  87. @Anonymous

    The oil used on Jesus’s feet is a much different situation than the ridiculous vestments used by orthodox and Roman Catholic clergy.

    • Replies: @Bubba
  88. @j3

    As soldiers Serbs fought for anyone they were loyal to. They fought for the Muslim Ottomans against other Christians often enough soon after the Battle of Kosovo. King (also called Prince) Marko, an Orthodox Christian vassal of the Turks, died fighting on the side of the Muslim Turks against Christian Wallachians, as did many other Serbs. It is claimed that he prayed for his own death saying: “I say and pray to the lord to help the Christians and for me to be among the first to die in this war”.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Marko

    • Replies: @Odyssey
  89. Refusing to take a shot(s) is a sin ?? How ridiculous ! I was brought up protestant and I distrust most of those denominations. But the religions where the priests wear a fancy robe and a crown on their heads, etc … I certainly cannot trust them either.

  90. Raju says:
    @anonymous

    Indian Hindus have the tendency to steal and then exagrate. The practice of meditation was attributed to old Greeks but Indian somehow, like Jews in many respect, own it now. The Bull shit about Yoga, hot yoga, cold yoga, regular yoga. I do lot of stretching but to Yoga freaks it is Yoga. My Ex wife got into yoga craze, and bought a yoga dress. She eventually gave up after trying hot yoga bull shit, whatever that means.

    Indians are proud and take great credit of the Indian food. The truth is that Indians do not eat non plant protein (fish, eggs, meat etc) but the Muslims were responsible for introducing protein related food that Indians take credit and make tons of money. Of course they hide the fact that they sprinkle cow urine in prepared food as a blessing (FDA and FTC should force them to disclose such practices).

    Indian women should be grateful to Mughal Muslim Ruler named Akbar the great who prohibited the inhuman religious practice of incinerating the wives (girls/woman of any age) with their dead husband. This savage practices were common in mid 20th century. Ahy the Bhagavad and all these idiots Gurus did not speak against Sati (burning of a surviving wife with her dead husband). Go figure it.

    These nationalist Indians are quick to denounce Non Hindus (Christians, Muslims and other) and want them to leave India but faithfully kiss Muslims Asses in the Middle East or in Christian Europe for monetary gains. Prime Minister Modi Goons kill non Hindus at will and only show trials. I saw video on dailmail where a Hindu fanatic crowed had beaten a non Hindu woman almost to death(probably a Muslim) and then buried her alive. What kind of government is that.

    Modi himself was involved in Muslim massacre in State of Gujrat (when he was chief minister). I can understand killing your opponent (which is wrong to begin with). But what Modi’s goons with the help of police did was to pulled a parliament member and instead of killing cut this human limbs one by one while the victim’s family watched. Hello anonymous[240] are you listening. I have more. What kind of religion you are praising.

    And the extreme is the treatment of untouchable by the Hindus. One time the “untouchables” in India stole some water from a tank, they were beaten promptly and the tank was later cleansed by holy cow shit (manure) as disinfectant. What kind of religion are you promoting. Other religions are not far behind in their inhumane ways and grab on the power but Hindus are far ahead of them.

  91. cohen says:
    @Anon001

    The gang rape of Yugoslavia by the Europeans in the 1990a was merely for resources and privatization of the society. In Belgrade, capital of Serbia I found three offices of KPMG, a US based company specializing in privatization. Wonder why 3 offices in one city. The Yugo car company was auctioned for \$1.00 so was the largest cigarette company in Serbia sold to Philips Morris for \$ 1.00. This is something I know personally. God know what else.

    • Agree: Odyssey
    • Replies: @Anon001
    , @Commentator Mike
  92. Bubba says:
    @Quartermaster

    Yeah Baby! Get those squares to dress like this and give out free coke snorts instead of communion!

  93. Odyssey says:
    @CelestiaQuesta

    Agree, txs, the comment was given in a good faith although I could omit the first sentence. He missed a global significance of the assertion that should (if correct) rewrite the world history.

  94. Rich says:
    @Anon001

    You’re fighting the wrong war. It’s no longer Catholic vs Orthodox vs Protestant, it’s Christian vs the world. Atheists and Luciferians have taken over the world and are destroying the dignity of mankind. Boys turned into effeminate monsters, girls turned into sluts and people forced to finance child murder. We have to stand together, not aid the enemy by fighting wars from past centuries.

  95. Odyssey says:
    @Commentator Mike

    CM, the first sentence is incorrect. I promised to explain you this situation and I will, not now. It is not a black or white thing. Serbs were facing two evils and suffered dearly from both, Ottomans and Vatican. There was even split among descendants of price Lazar about the future allies. The fact is that Ottomans did not come back to Serbia after the Kosovo battle in the following 75 years.

    The battle was finished with Serbian pyrrhic victory, where the most of nobility died, so, it remained in a people’s memory as a defeat. Vatican, itself, still had a heretic status by separating themselves from the mainstream Christianity. Don’t forget that Serbia was the strongest country in Europe before the battle and had the same size of population as England (now is almost 20:1). West Europe intentionally did not want to help Serbs to defend Europe, even logistically helped Ottomans. In the following centuries things changes.

    But, the western policy did not change up to today with England’s tendency to block Russians exit to Mediterranean. Because, they push today strongly to prevent Russia to take Odesa because they want to block the Baltic-Black Sea line and prevent Russian and Chinese entrance to Europe…

    I will eventually expand the above story. Here, Croats never had their state before Nazi’s occupation, which created this genocidal puppet state. The current, never deNacified Croatian state, officially declared their continuity with this puppet. Another interesting facet of the story (some other time and it is not mentioned by anyone) is that this war happened a couple hundreds of years after the germanisation of Serbs in today’s Germany and the Serbian language was still spoken there. Martin Luther himself was an ethnic Serb but, as all converts, was a great serbophobe who also hated Czechs and Poles.

    So, the accurate chronicler (as in the case of Gavrilo Princip and ww1) could technically ascribe another Serbian guilt – the foundation of the Protestant church which caused Thirty Years’ War, so, the most inventive revisionists would make a conclusion that the people of Magdeburg actually got what they asked for. But, the engravement ‘God save us from plague, famine and Croats’ on the Magdeburg church still remains.

    • LOL: silviosilver
    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  96. Anon001 says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Serbs were professional soldiers, hence they fought wars/battles involving other soldiers – they were not butchers and murderers of civilians and innocents. That is why Catholic Croats were selected/sent by the Habsburgs and Vatican.

    In 1638, a booklet “Mourning over Germany” was published in London, describing the horrors of Croats atrocities. They forced priests to pray in front of the altar while they slaughtered them, raped women in the church, took people’s eyes out, skinned them, cut women’s arms and legs, burned living people, broke fingers with a rope, skinned people’s faces, cut their noses and ears and made a pendant out of them, threw women into the river, poured urine through people’s pipes into their stomachs…

    Check out the page [1] – text is in Serbian, but just scroll through the page to see 4-5 scanned illustrations from that booklet showing what Catholic Croats have done.

    These deeds were the cause of the following saying from that era: “God save us from plague, famine and Croats”

    [1] Page with illustrations of Croat’s atrocities (Mourning over Germany, London 1638)
    https://srbski.weebly.com/1057107210951091107410721112-108510721089-1041108610781077-1082109110751077-10751083107210761080-1080-106110881074107210901072hellip.html

    • Thanks: Commentator Mike
    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
    , @Wielgus
  97. Anon001 says:
    @cohen

    Yes. The full loot of everything (aka “Privatization”) in Serbia started a bit later, in 2000, after color revolution was complete and “democratic” puppets installed – the famous “Regime Change”. This continues to this day. One of those puppets changed his mind midway, drew the line and said “enough is enough”, and was assassinated [1].

    The most unfortunate fact about that color revolution and colonization of Serbia in 2000 is that Putin himself (not Russian people) helped his Western “Partners” with it. And that was not the only evil he’s done to the Serbs to please his “Partners” and hopefully gain West’s respect and acceptance. We know how that strategy worked out and paid off for him and Russia.

    [1] Zoran Djindjic – Wikipedia:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoran_%C4%90in%C4%91i%C4%87

  98. @Jim Christian

    Julian Assange –Free him now –the Church should step in here —

    • Agree: Odyssey
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  99. TRM says:

    Gun control, pro-vax mandate and one world religion?
    Good riddance. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

  100. @Raju

    Western governments and human rights organisations are not interested in Indian human rights abuses. It’s the abuses by Chinese and Russians that they are interested in and that they want to publicise.

    • Replies: @Malla
  101. @cohen

    I thought KPMG was a Dutch company with its HQ in the Netherlands and incorporated in the UK. Anyway it’s an international company by now, like so many others.

  102. @Odyssey

    The fact is that Ottomans did not come back to Serbia after the Kosovo battle in the following 75 years.

    So during that period Serbs were allies of the Turks and fought on their side in wars, no? I suppose the Wallachians against whom they fought on behalf of the Turks were Orthodox not Catholic.

    • Replies: @Anon001
  103. Anon001 says:
    @Commentator Mike

    The details of many of those wars (Wallachia, etc.) need to be double-checked as they could be tainted with Vatican/German propaganda to drive a wedge between Orthodox. Official history records need to be cleaned of Vatican/Austrian/German lies, forgeries, etc.

    Also, many Orthodox were ruled by foreigners and/or were influenced by Vatican in their ecumenism fantasies and did bad things to others Orthodox. For example, Orthodox Romania was ruled by German royals. Orthodox Bulgaria committed horrific atrocities against Serb civilians in both WW1 and WW2. Greece committed ethnocide against its ethnic Serbs between WW1 and WW2. In 1903, 85% of people in Aegean Macedonia were ethnic Serbs, while there were 0% in 2003. Look at what Greece did with the calendar and caused huge problems for the all Orthodox. Etc.

    So yes, there are conflicts between Orthodox too.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  104. @Anon001

    Serb enforces did suppress the Hungarian Revolution in 1848 and there is much resentment about this among Hungarians to this day. Although one of the leaders of the revolution may also have been a Serb, or perhaps a Slovak, so maybe there were a few Serbs on the side on the Hungarian nationalist revolutionaries but most were in the military/police forces serving the monarchy. In WWI many Serbs, those from Croatia and Vojvodina, fought on the side on the Austro-Hungarians, except for any who may have escaped across the border to join the Serbs.

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
    , @Odyssey
    , @Anon001
  105. Nico says:
    @anonymous

    A quick visit to India, or to one of the burgeoning colonies of dot-Indians in France or Britain, will quickly dispel any mommy’s-basement-nerd notions that Hinduism has anything salutary to offer white Westerners, but then if they had the means to visit such places they wouldn’t be living in Mommy’s basement.

    • Agree: Che Guava
  106. Wielgus says:
    @Anon001

    A Croatian captain named Carlo Fantom took part in the English Civil War (the Thirty Years’ War was still ongoing but perhaps the European Continent had become too hot for him) and became notorious enough to rate a mention in Aubrey’s Brief Lives. He was a rapist who demanded that his troops do it as well, a polyglot and allegedly bullet-proof. He was finally hanged after one rape too many.

    • Replies: @Anon001
  107. Anonymous[398] • Disclaimer says:

    The head of the Russian Orthodox Church is KGB.

  108. @Raju

    Indian women should be grateful to Mughal Muslim Ruler named Akbar the great who prohibited the inhuman religious practice of incinerating the wives (girls/woman of any age) with their dead husband.

    Hindu women should be thankful to smelly Islamic barbaric invaders for ,mass raping and mass murders.

    [MORE]


    Female Islamic scholar says Muslim men have a right to humiliate infidel women

    Hindu women started jumping in fire with their children to protect themselves from dishonour and enslavement when un-bathed Muslim barbarian rapist horde invader army were winning war against defending Hindu army, to save honour and save themselves from slavery of barbaric smelly un-bathed Muslim evils.

    Not only India, Muslim evils enjoyed attacking, killing, enslaving and mass raping Europeans also, like the Bulgarians.


    Ottoman Islamic jihad rape of Bulgarian Christians

    • Replies: @Malla
  109. @Commentator Mike

    The crna ruka (Black Hand) who assassinated Franz Ferdinand
    still wore the black, red and gold of the National Revolution so this
    particular chapter is somewhat complicated.

  110. Odyssey says:
    @Commentator Mike

    CM, I admire your attention to details and intellectual curiosity. You are rising a profile of our Trier micro-community and I will suggest to other members to wear red roses at their lapels at our next meeting.

    Well, I will explain soon the political situation after the Kosovo battle. Serbian state did not cease to exist immediately, but they were in a vasal position with obligations (including the Constantinople) to contribute warriors when needed. For e.g. there was the Battle of Angora, against Timur, where Sultan Bayezid got killed. The battle was a major victory for Timur, and it led to the Ottoman Interregnum. Timur praised Serbian warriors and said that they fought like lions.

    Serbs were good warriors while protecting own land, so as in all armies they participated since Alexander the Great, they were the iron fist of the Roman Empire and gave dozens of Roman Emperors, East Roman Empire (Byzantine) survived 1000 years longer thanks to Serbian swords, in Ottoman army they held few dozens of generals and admirals positions (Serbian was official language in army and diplomacy, they also gave 13 prime ministers), they were also generals and warriors in Austro-Hungarian military borderland and stopped Ottomans from penetrating Europe, germanised Serbs (Prussians) were the elite of Prussian and German army, they held the highest positions in the Russian tsarist army. Serbian army fought all Empires – Romans, Byzantine, Ottomans, Austro-Hungarian, Third Reich and USA Empire.

    To refer briefly on your comment – Wallachians were also Serbs (we saw before how Vlad the Impaler fought Ottomans), you may not know that until 1848 Serbs were the majority in today’s Hungary and severe Magyarisation followed, there are only few thousands of Serbs in Hungary now. It wasn’t easy to be geographically positioned between taqiyya people on one side and, even worse, Vatican’s hypocrites on the other.

  111. Malla says:
    @Commentator Mike

    are not interested in Indian human rights abuses.

    What rubbish ??

    Rising Islamophobia in India: How Modi’s BJP is spreading anti-Muslim sentiment • FRANCE 24 English France 24 English

    How India is transforming towards authoritarianism | DW Analysis. Deutsche Welle English

    Of course, Hindu Nats are blaming these channels for anti-Indian, “Western Christian propaganda”. They Indian Nat psychos already swarm TRT (Turkey) or Al Jazeera when any critical piece comes about India.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  112. Che Guava says:
    @Anon001

    Interesting comments from Rolo.

    Bartolemaeus is not AFAICS, a rep. of the Greek church, but very much of the defeated and devastated rump in Turkey.

    He likes playing political footsies with any bs the west can offer, makes him feel important.

    The Orthodox Church in Japan is pretty small, but has always been aligned with the Moscow patriarchate, I suppose the exile version, until thirty or so years ago.

    When I first went to the main church in Tokyo, I asked them if it was a wedding church, a clearly upper-class wedding was on at the time, so I just assumed it to be a higher class of the wedding churches, better decorations, but I was asking a man who was a kind of administrator there, in Japanese, and he replied in Japanese, this is only a real wedding in a normal small cathedral.

    I suspect that not all of the weddings they conduct are of believers, but am not sure.

    Anyway, it is a real church otherwise.

    Once I struck up conversation with an oldish man on the subway, I assumed he was a cos-player, once he understood that, he explained that he was a seminarian at the Othordox seminary in Tokyo, under the Russian Patriarchate.

    I have long wanted to take my closest Catholic friend, she is full of anti-Russian and anti-Orthodox bs. from priests here, but also just young enough and Marian fanatic enough to have no idea what V-2 reforms changed, to an orthodox mass.

    Thanks to coronamania, just abt. all churches were closed for a long while, so she is skeptical after having been refused permission to attend even though she keeps the confirmation hair veil, and always wears it to church.

    • Replies: @Anon001
  113. Che Guava says:
    @anonymous

    On a side-issue to your ridiculous comments about Hinduism, Iceland parliament passed a resolution against male genital mutilation a few years ago.

    A few hundred Jews live in Iceland, unfortunately for Iceland, they raised such a storm of international threats that Icelandic politicians had to throw out the will of the people for a very small fraction of one percent, just as the same people did to Germany, though with less short-term success, starting abt. 89 yrs ago.

    As an interesting experiment, try raising the topic of MGM on the Grauniad, of course on a thread where it’s relevant.

    I’m not sure that any such thread could exist now, the Grauniad seems to have decided that FGM is fine, too.

  114. Anon001 says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Catholic Hungarians resentment and hatred towards Orthodox Christian Serbs is primarily due to Serbs defeating and destroying Austro-Hungarian Empire. As a revenge, Hungarians (Nazi Germany partners) committed horrific atrocities against Serb Civilians in the WW2 in the northern part of Serbia [1]. Note: numbers in that Wiki are much lower than the real number of Serbian civilians murdered.

    As @Odyssey noted, many Hungarians have Serbian roots. For example, one of the most famous Hungarian poets Sándor Petőfi, was actually a Serbian gentlemen Aleksandar Petrović [2] – even Wiki is not hiding that.

    Just as with many countries and regions in Europe, mass murder, forced expulsion, forced conversion to Catholicism, and ethnocides against Serbian population over many centuries has brought us today’s counts, although it used to be big enough to warrant Limes Sorabicus [3]. Many people in Europe and even in Turkey (due to Blood Levy) know that they have Serbian roots.

    [1] Novi Sad raid – Wikipedia:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novi_Sad_raid

    [2] Sándor Petőfi – Wikipedia:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A1ndor_Pet%C5%91fi

    [3] Limes Sorabicus Map:

  115. Anon001 says:
    @Che Guava

    Thanks for commenting. Administratively he’s not, but I’m talking about attitudes and motives that span borders – Phanar is Greek and Bartholomew wants to be the Pope of all Orthodox Church.

    Here’s Fr. John Whiteford (ROCOR) explaining how Greeks started the calendar trouble: Fr. John Whiteford on the New Calendar Controversy in Orthodoxy

    • Replies: @Che Guava
  116. Odyssey says:

    For those interested in history, arts and Christian medieval heritage, the link bellow presents on 1000 pages a capital edition of the Orthodox Christian Heritage of Kosovo and Metohija. The readers can see beautiful frescos and icons, some of them almost 1000 years old. The book presents a cultural history and the heritage of the Serbian Medieval Kingdom ruled by Nemanjić Dynasty, its cultural development over centuries and its patriotic heart, which resided in Rascia (Raška) and Kosovo. The rich Serbian cultural heritage was less known to the world and for a long time was neglected. There were 1300 churches and monasteries built in medieval time (some of them are on the map on the p.47), not all of them survived calamitous historic events, but the major and the most beautiful are still a great pride of the Serbian people and their national heritage. In order to preserve the original art and architecture of monasteries and frescos, UNESCO made a decision to list all Kosovo monasteries as World Heritage monuments.

    https://online.flipbuilder.com/szto/mnva/mobile/index.html

    • Thanks: Anne Lid
  117. @Malla

    You should know by now when and why they turn their focus on certain countries and look to expose something negative and publicise it. They don’t much like the direction India has been taking lately. Sure you can always find some programme somewhere sympathetic to some oppressed peoples, even those tribals fighting against the Indian military, but basically it all comes down to when they have an agenda and an interest. Western SMS is basically a propaganda mouthpiece and not an information source, although it sometimes can’t help proving some correct information.

    • Replies: @Malla
  118. Malla says:
    @Raju

    Indians are proud and take great credit of the Indian food. The truth is that Indians do not eat non plant protein (fish, eggs, meat etc)

    What a idiot, farting from his big mouth. A lot of Hindus eat non vegetarian food but in general avoid beef and pork. So most eat eggs, fish, chicken and mutton (goats). However being a vegetarian is looked up to with respect.

    Muslims were responsible for introducing protein related food that Indians take credit and make tons of money.

    Actually this is a bit of a myth. Most Indians find food in Middle Eastern/ Central Asian countries bland and tasteless.

    Abhijit Iyer-Mitra on Indian Cuisines & Foreign Influences – Urban Chatterati

    This so called influence on Indian cuisine from Islamic lands is blown out of proportion. Most of the innovations in Indian food was done by Indian subcontinentals. Middle Eastern + North African and Central Asian food is considered too simple, uninteresting and tasteless (by Indians) compared to the more richer variety and tastes of food in India.

  119. Malla says:
    @Raju

    Indians are proud and take great credit of the Indian food. The truth is that Indians do not eat non plant protein (fish, eggs, meat etc) but the Muslims were responsible for introducing protein related food that Indians take credit and make tons of money.

    Check out how these Pakistani Muslims find Ramadan dishes from Middle East+North Africa tasteless and not very good. In the video below.

    While Afghans go crazy after trying the more richer and delicious Indian food. In the video below.

    One of the Afghans at the end, criticizes Afghan food and why it is not as tasty as Indian food. Too bland.

  120. @Anon001

    Greece committed ethnocide against its ethnic Serbs between WW1 and WW2.

    I suppose if you told most Serbs about Greeks committing genocide against the Serbs you will get blank stares and they will think you’re crazy as they consider Greeks to be Orthodox brothers and their best friends.

    I suppose you’re referring to the period of the Greko-Turkish war in the 1920s when Turks committed genocide against the Greeks and cleansed Turkey of its Greek population and the Greeks retaliated by driving out their own Turkish population; which could also be seen as a population exchange between the two countries. Are you trying to imply that those Turks kicked out of Greece were actually Serbs, like Muslim Serbs?

    After WWII when the communists lost the civil war against the British backed democrats, some Greeks sought refuge in Yugoslavia, but those were considered to be proper Greeks.

    Where is the evidence that any Serbs were kicked out of Greece? I guess if you claim that everyone is a Serbs, like Odyssey does, then sure you could claim that all those people cleansed out of Greece were Serbs. But where is the evidence that they thought of themselves as Serbs or that those who cleansed them did it because they were considered to be Serbs?

    • Replies: @Odyssey
    , @Anon001
  121. @davidgmillsatty

    No. What we need to realize is that there is no life after death. Once you come to grips with that, then you realize religions of all kinds make no sense.

    You are 50% correct. The pagan doctrine of the immortality of the soul is not taught in the Bible, and that doctrine constitutes the serpent’s lie.
    “Ye shall not surely die.” Gen 3:4.

    The Bible teaches conditional immortality by resurrection of the body from the sleep of death at the return of Jesus Christ. 1 Thess 4:13-18. Jesus said “I am the resurrection and the life; he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.” John 11:25. He did not say “I am the immortal soul and the life”.

    The living soul consists of organised dust plus the spirit of life, none of which are immortal inherently. Gen 2:7. “To those who …. seek for glory honour and immortality, eternal life.” Rom 2:7. It is conditional on faithful “seeking”. Man “is” a living soul; he does not merely contain one. The living soul becomes a dead soul when a man dies. “The soul that sinneth, it shall die” Ezekiel 18:20. “His breath goeth forth, he returneth to the earth; in that very day his thoughts perish” Psalm 146:4

    There are no fiery eternal torments. Hell is the grave, and the Apostle’s Creed teaches that Jesus Christ was there for 3 days after his death, before his resurrection. Gehenna was the Jerusalem rubbish dump, where the fires never went out, and where the bodies of dead criminals were thrown. Jesus avoided this fate because Joseph of Arimithea donated his tomb, fulfilling the prophecy that he would be “associated with the … rich in his death.”

    You need to study the Bible yourself. “And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished” 1 Cor 15:17-18, but read the whole chapter which speaks of the resurrection.

  122. @GomezAdddams

    “The” church is who exactly? And who cares what any church official thinks?

  123. Anne Lid says:

    Petőfi was Slovakian and he chose to “magyarize” himself because he fell in love with the culture, I suppose. Just because wiki mentions his name’s Serbian version does not mean that he was a Serbian. When I was a kid I was convinced that Jules Verne was Hungarian because his name was also translated according to the custom of the time to Verne Gyula, shown on the covers of his books, hence my misunderstanding.

    It is important to remember our heroes and history, but one must be careful not to fall into a false sense where one is always the victim.

    In January 1942 Hungarian armed forces started a clean up of partisans (who were scum and deserved everything that came to them) that ended in a full blown massacre of 3308 mainly Serbian, and Jewish and some Hungarian, Russian, Ruthenian, gypsy civilians in newly reattached Bácska (around Novi Sad). I am fairly proud that the Hungarian government has investigated the matter – in the middle of a terrible war when all hands on deck were needed, some people still cared about what was right and just. Not that they managed to actually punish the guilty, but after the war they got caught and executed anyway.

    In 1944-45 Serbian forces massacred about 30-45 000 Hungarians. For all I know the guilty were not investigated and most definitely not punished.

    I am not blaming any living Serbs, I am just stating historical reality. At this point I wish no retribution (it would necessarily involve only innocents, so I would be adamantly against anything of the sort), only that the memory of these people should be preserved, as close to reality (otherwise known as truth) as possible.

    • Replies: @Anne Lid
    , @Odyssey
    , @Anon001
  124. Anne Lid says:
    @Anne Lid

    Actually, it is important to say the Serbian forces were communists, and I still blame communism in general and those who generated and propagate it.

    My longer comment above was meant for Anon001.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  125. Che Guava says:
    @Anon001

    Thank you, I listened to abt. 15 minutes.

    Only big surprise to me, I never knew that Protestants stayed on the Julian calendar for so long.

    I also disagree with Fr. Whiteford abt. the end of the Bolshevik ‘Living Church’ in the 1930’s, that may be true in Russia and most of the rest of the U.S.S.R., but it is the pattern of the Catholic Church since V-II, and much the pattern of the Protestants previously closest in doctrine to Catholicism. Lutherans, Anglicans, Presbyterians.

    Now the same ideas have spread to the big prot. denomations, only now the ‘Living Church’ idea is based on the cretinous jewish-inspired ideas of the western lunatic left of now.

    In Japan, this is not visible, and the situation is different, but most churches are still closed because of coronamania.

    Same for Shinto, Buddhist, and the weird ‘new religion’ places in general.

    However, most of the latter already ran by video from a central location, so it would really give their tactic an extra push, they can try to force members into hosting home video ‘services’.

  126. Malla says:
    @Commentator Mike

    You should know by now when and why they turn their focus on certain countries

    Yes, you are right. But this tactic is used by the media houses of most nations. Even CGTN of China or WION of India or TRT World of Turkey etc…use this tactic. But India had been attacked on this issue before the Russo-Ukrainian war or lets say Russian special military operations. The intensity of media attack then was lower. But you are right about the Western media attacks on India, increasing after India took an independent stand on the recent Russian military operations in Ukraine. I have observed this.

    Western SMS is basically a propaganda mouthpiece and not an information source, although it sometimes can’t help proving some correct information.

    Agreed. But many people, foolishly blindly trust it.

    Also what is strange, Youtube blocked RT in India!!!! Who have Jewtube the right to decide if Indians can get access to RT or Sputnik..or not? But anyways, I could download the RT app, get it on my cable television (along with BBC World, DW, France 24, NHK World (Japan), Channel News Asia (Singapore) etc..) and get RT on the internet. We do not get CGTN (China) on Indian TV but we can download the app.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  127. Odyssey says:
    @Commentator Mike

    In the northern Greece (see the map) Serbs lived. Greeks settled Greek refuges from Turkey in Serbian areas. They started accelerated process of assimilation. One hundred years ago there was 1 million of Serbs in Greece, today – only couple thousands. Greeks replaced several thousands of Serbian toponyms since Alexander the Great, to Greek names. The map show some of these places with changed names.

    There is also a list of some names with old Serbian and new, Greek names of places and villages.
    CM, can you tell me for whom you are not convinced that they are/were Serbs as I allegedly stated?

    Can you tell me who was Alexander the Great? Or, Spartacus?

    https://macedonianhistory.ca/PDF/Macedonian%20village%20names.pdf

    https://www.google.com/search?q=macedonian+names+in+greece&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&vet=1&fir=DjvYXJF0veb79M%252CoM_SeZDnJxnESM%252C_%253BP7loTyFzBfhyfM%252CoM_SeZDnJxnESM%252C_%253BR2AeukPn2R3CIM%252CKfk_SeFFw0o1vM%252C_%253B8m0vQvdAO_8QkM%252CJqDilTI4XrOpvM%252C_%253Bvy_XL_bfnYMCXM%252CaFB2ER7ONlw30M%252C_%253BD34EkpyoYAL2RM%252C9MmtSP7LnEU6DM%252C_%253BNwLyjLiSMvJO7M%252CoM_SeZDnJxnESM%252C_%253BnqBhEReTZpCPsM%252CkB17-BdrwsU_SM%252C_%253BzUKbVpcc0TIROM%252CQyutUUKm6HVFqM%252C_%253BeaQtZk2xaEhwOM%252C9MmtSP7LnEU6DM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kTNDsUeOG7Rl7Dy-46Lwy1cEFEwrQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjgoe-Hmsv4AhUS8zgGHW2mAC4Q9QF6BAgzEAE#imgrc=nqBhEReTZpCPsM

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  128. Odyssey says:
    @Anne Lid

    Petőfi was a Serb, not Slovakian. Annon001 probably will answer in detail, but I think he fell in love with one girl. Now, he is the greatest Hungarian poet. Maybe you are a Hungarian and you should know that the most of Hungarians (who came from Siberia to today’s Hungary in 896 AC) are of Serbian origin. Janos Hunyadi was also a Serb. Many even consider Hungarians as a Slavic nation.

    Hungarians killed civilians in Novi Sad, probably about 12000 or more, immediately when they got permission from Germans to occupy the northern Serbian province, Vojvodina. They killed them in the middle of the winter 1942 by throwing them alive through the holes under the Danube ice. The official number is reduced because of possible inter-ethnic consequences. There were no partisans in Vojvodina and Novi Sad. First partisans appeared when Russian Red Army came at the end of the of 1944.

    It is not true that partisans killed 45 000 Hungarians. The truth is that communists killed more than 90.000 Serbs (professors, businessmen, educated, etc) at the end of the war when Belgrade was liberated from Germans. Some local Germans were killed, too, the rest were expelled to Germany because of their collaboration with the Third Reich.

  129. Malla says:
    @Mehool Mehta

    Thanks Mehool Uncle, for the last video. So, it seems the Orthodox Christians of Bulgaria faced the same fate as Hindus via Islamic invasions.

  130. @Odyssey

    I suppose you know the Serbian names of Alexander the Great and Spartacus but then where did you get the evidence that those were their names? It was so long ago. Who recorded and when that they were Serbs and their Serbian names?

    • Replies: @Odyssey
  131. @Malla

    Intelligence agencies have files on everyone and whenever the time comes they pull one out and the MSM gets to slandering whichever country, faction, ethnic group, spreading calumny, and highlighting their abuses and what is worst about them. Sure, smaller countries follow the same practice although they’re usually directed in this by some bigger powers. The BBC wasn’t too bad in the past but now it is insufferable; it is openly an extension of the intelligence agencies with their journalists and reporters openly acting as “operatives” without even denying it. The level of heightened propaganda there is unbearable.

    • Replies: @Malla
  132. @Anne Lid

    It would be more correct to say Yugoslavs rather than Serbs at that time there.

  133. Malla says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Agree with everything you say. BBC was a propaganda outlet from way back when.

    But yes, now they have become worse and hardly have good shows/ documentaries on their World service. When it comes to good documentaries, DW is far better than BBC (which was in general always better than CNN) or ABC (Australia) now but RT (Russia) and NHK World (Japan) are the best in documentaries. Even CGTN (China) is not that bad.

    What is also interesting is the obsession, the Western news channels like BBC, CNN, DW, France 24 have in worshiping Africa. Africa, Africa, Africa. France 24 has more programs on Africa than documentaries on France!! BBC is quite close too now in that respect.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  134. Anne Lid says:

    Correct. Yugoslav would be the better fitting word. The victims according to the Hungarian wiki were Hungarians, Germans and Croats. No mention of Serbian victims, though better sources do mention them.

    • Replies: @Anne Lid
  135. Anne Lid says:
    @Anne Lid

    The Hungarian articles call them Serbs, not Yugoslavs. I guess ethnically they were.

    • Replies: @Odyssey
    , @Odyssey
  136. Odyssey says:
    @Anne Lid

    Hope you accepted my comment about Petőfi. Yes, his mother was a Slovakian. Many primary schools in Vojvodina, in place where Serbs and Magyars are mixed population, have his name, which is equivalent to his Serbian name, Alexander.

    As I said, after liberation from Germans and his allies, communists killed some people because they were actually fighting for power not for liberation only. Mostly, they killed Serbs based on Cominterna’s directive (since 1928 Dresden congress) that Serbs should be destroyed, and new nations invented to undermine them (e.g. Macedonaians, Montenegro, Bosniacs, Kosovo Shiptars). And really, they did this in the following 50 years, through state organisation, internal borders and legislation.

    Can you tell me about Hungarian victims, where this happened, any numbers, monuments, etc. It is all known now, and I never heard about your information. Partisans also killed Croatian Ustasha who committed atrocities and genocide on Serbs while they were retreating in Austria but not Croat civilians. They also killed Serbia Royal forces and the members of the pre-war Yugoslavian army who also escaped to Austria. Anglo-Americans captured all of them in Austria and surrendered them to Tito’s partisans.

    When I was young, I did my compulsory military service in Vojvodina in a place with 90% of Hungarians (Zenta). There is an excellent relationship between Serbs and Hungarians and many mixed marriages. We had so many common activities and performances with local schools. Hungarian girls generally find Serbs tall and physically attractive, while Serbian boys find Hungarian girls so hot and temperament.

    • Replies: @Anne Lid
    , @Anne Lid
  137. Odyssey says:
    @Commentator Mike

    CM, you did not tell me your opinion (knowledge). Who theoretically can be Spartacus? If not a Serb, he could be only a Greek, there are not other candidates. Do you think he was a Greek? Tsipras gladiator? Greeks were not a part of Roman combat units, while Serbs (and Spartacus) were. Because they gave two dozen of Roman (so-called military) Emperors. Do you remember our Trier story with Constantine, his father, Diocletian, Severus, Maxentius and other Serbian Emperors and that Constantine was endorsed, after the death of his father, by his army as a Caesar in your (white rose) neighborhood?

    So, as Alexander. You know a lot, but probably you will be surprised if I say that Alexander (i.e Aleksandar) was not a Greek name. The real name is Lesandar and Greeks just added ‘A’. In many original names/toponyms they were adding A or removing S. Literally, ‘Les’ means ‘forest’ (still used in Russian and Slovenian), ‘dar’ means ‘gift’. In free translation, the name means ‘God’s gift’. So, what do you think, who was Alexander?

  138. I don’t have any strong opinions but I’d go by the official history: Spartacus was a Maedi and Alexander a Macedon. That’s what Plutarch claimed.

    • Replies: @Odyssey
  139. Odyssey says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Maedi (or Medi) were Serbs. Even wiki says that Spartacus was a Thracian. In 710 BC, the karan Perdika (Alexander’s ancestor) took the title of the king and created his kingdom. The name ‘perdika’, until recently in western Serbia, was the name for a stone or wooden fence around the property. Perdika gave the name to his kingdom – Makedonia. Why this name? This region was very rich in poppy cultivation. Poppy in Serbian is ‘mak’. Makedonia means a ‘poppy valley’. So, after that, we have Serbs who called themselves Macedonians. ‘Macedonia’ is not a Greek name.
    For you, few tunes from Alexander’s homeland:

  140. Anon001 says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Most Serbs would not give a blank stare re Greek’s ethnocide/mass-murder of Serbs in Greece, as most Serbs are fully aware of what e.g. Orthodox Bulgarians did to Serb civilians in both WW1 and WW2. So it’d just be another case of betrayal and crimes by Orthodox brothers, that puzzles Serbs minds to this day as to why for it was not provoked in any way. For example, in WW1, Bulgarians slaughtered 420 Serbian children that hid in some house but were discovered. The graveyard of those children exists even today.

    When Greece was established as country in 1829 AD, absolute majority of people in Greece were ethnic Serbs, and most toponyms in Greece had Serbian names.

    The Greeks used the exact same strategy as Vatican in Austro-Hungarian Empire in the Balkans around 1900s: All Catholics in the Balkans (essentially all of them being ethnic Serbs of Catholic faith) were declared Croats and forced to say state so. Similarly, all Orthodox in Greece were declared Greeks regardless of their ethnic background. This causes confusion you are wondering about, as it is not easy to distinguish which people were true ethnic Greeks, and which ones were ethnic Serbs.

    There was population exchange between Turkey and Greece after Greco-Turkish War (1919–1922) , but what happened to Serbs in Greece was primarily Greeks doing post-war. Turks that were moved out of Greece to Turkey were ethnic Turks. The problem for Greeks were Serbs already in Greece due to their large numbers. Ethnic Greeks were a minority in Greece. Hence they tried to force them to become and declare themselves to be Greeks including, making speaking Serbian in public against the law, changing thousands of Serbian toponyms in Greece to Greek one’s, etc. This was all forced and violence was used. Many ethnic Serbs left Greece and came to Serbia, and those are the “Greeks” you are referring to.

    Those people were fully aware that they were Serbs including having Serbian customs and holding Serbian-specific traditions – there were not just Greeks with ancient Serbian roots, although after that ethnocide, many of them that stayed in Greece became such cases after 2-3 generations, as they had to change their names into Greek sounding ones at the time, etc. Even today, many of those “Greeks” keep Serb-specific folklore and customs without even being aware of their roots and the crimes committed against them by true Greeks.

    It’s funny that you mentioned Greek Civil War (1946–1949), as that event was also used, this time around, to mass-murder Serbs in Greece – presumably those left that did not accept to become Greeks. So again, more “Greeks” left Greece again and find refuge in Serbia. Here’s the page in Serbian [1], but with 24 photographs at the bottom of the article’s showing Greeks’ deeds against ethnic Serbs in that civil war.

    More proof? Records of huge numbers of Serbian refugees coming to Serbia in both cases with testimonies of what was done to them. Also there are letters that Serbs in Greece wrote to the Serbian King, through the consulate in Greece, explaining that they are under terror. There are Greece court documents showing Serbs being brought before the court for speaking Serbian privately but in public space. Greece hid all those crimes by simply calling all those people Greeks.

    Isn’t it strange to read that so many Greeks kept leaving Greece and headed towards Serbia in both cases? What happened to Serbs there? In 1903, 85% of people in Aegean Macedonia were ethnic Serbs, while there were 0% in 2003.

    Greece/Greeks never apologized or paid any reparations to Serbs for these horrific crimes and murders.

    [1] Ethnic cleansing and mass-murder of Serbs in Aegean Macedonia 1946-1949:
    https://srbski.weebly.com/1045105810531048106310501054-1063104810641035104510341045-1057105610411040.html

    • Replies: @Anon001
  141. Anon001 says:
    @Anne Lid

    Thank you for your comment Anne. Next time, please hit ‘reply’ button under comment you reply to so that we can keep track.

    Re Petőfi: People do not change their names completely and declare themselves to be something else completely just because they like/love some culture. Also, these ethnicity/identity “changes” strangely happen only in Catholic countries/empires and only one-way.

    Re Hungarian raid: As mentioned, numbers of Serb civilians slaughtered by Nazi Hungarians are much larger than that wiki. Communists hid Serbs WW2 deaths counts (so far, at least 1.5 million civilians slaughtered just by Catholic Nazi Croats and still counting). For example, one of the monuments built by communists for that Hungarian raid reads 1100 civilians murdered by Nazi Hungarians, while the real number was 10 times bigger, 11 thousand!

    Re end of WW2: 1944-45 Yugoslav Communist Army (led by Tito, a non-Serb), and not some Serbian forces, executed many Nazis including Hungarian Nazis. They also executed tens of thousands of Serb Chetnics (special forces of the King) even though they fought against Nazi Germany during the entire war. Communists executed and eliminated all opponents without exception.

    • Replies: @Anne Lid
  142. Odyssey says:
    @Anne Lid

    Anne, could you pls confirm if the boys’ findings at the end of #139 are correct?

  143. Anon001 says:
    @Wielgus

    Thank you for your comment Wielgus. Found his wiki.

    Carlo Fantom – Wikipedia:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_Fantom

    • Replies: @Wielgus
  144. Anon001 says:
    @Jim Jatras

    Thank you for your comment Jim. First, let me thank you for your ongoing fight for the truth that has been spanning decades now! It will not be forgotten.

    ——- Re State Department ——-

    As far as NATO (State Department, etc) vs Russia is concerned, I pretty much agree with Paul Craig Roberts ( https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/category/articles/ ). Just see his articles there that have either Putin, Kremlin, Russia, or Ukraine in the title. It boils down to the following: Putin’s pleasing attitude towards his Western “partners” and his Turkish “partner”, that he’s been practicing for 20+ years, has pretty much destroyed his and Russia’s reputation in the West. They see him as spineless, weak, and a joke, thus every time he threatens with some action, they see it as nothing but bluster. No wonder, as he has betrayed most of the countries against which NATO did something – Serbia (Oct 2000 onward), Libya, Egypt, Armenia, and many others, etc. Although I’m glad, I still wonder how come that he did not betray Syria too, and left it to be completely destroyed by his beloved “partners”.

    Putin asked 5 times for Russia’s NATO membership, even after Bill Clinton laughed in his face regarding that. He stated that he has no problems with USA being 1st in the world, so to speak, with Russia being its trusty sidekick, I guess. He mentioned repeatedly that his top priority is to have good relations with US. He mentioned that there’s no difference between Russia and West, and that Russia should integrate into Western systems. Erdogan humiliates him and Russia on a regular basis in Syria and with Ukraine (exporting drones that kill his solders and ethnic Russians), while Putin starts joint military projects with Turkey. I’ve also heard that Russia gave some serious loans to Erdogan/Turkey that Erdogan stopped paying off years ago with no consequences – it’s all free for “partners” I guess – just like that \$350B of stolen reserves that Kremlin does not bother “partners” with. List goes on and on and on.

    Knowing all that, it is obvious to me that Putin is a globalist. He’s also part of Russia’s 5th column (Chubais, Kudrin, Nabulina, etc.). Last but not least, he also seems to be an Atlanticist Integrationist (Saker TM).

    ——- Re Ukraine ——-

    Putin betrayed the whole Ukraine in 2014 by doing nothing, while NATO completed its color revolution and put their puppet in place. He actually enjoyed Sochi Olympics during that time, and recognized new Ukraine puppet government immediately as legit. He then proceeded to do nothing for 8 years (2014-2022) while 14000 ethnic Russian civilians were murdered in Ukraine. During that period, he even made business deals with Ukraine.

    I’m pretty certain that he was planning to betray those people again in Feb 2022, but most likely, Russian military said that it could not allow that, just as with giving up Crimea. I remember, just as Feb 2022 attack on ethnic Russian areas in Ukraine started again, presumably as the final act of their destruction, reading on RT that Putin said (paraphrasing) “they should discuss and negotiate that themselves”. Perhaps I’m misreading this, but it looks to me that he was planning to betray them again and do nothing while his Western “partners” finish the job through proxies.

    So then, I’d guess, he had to do something because Russian military requested some action, and with a heavy heart he agreed, but told them to make it quick and put constraints on what they could do, rather than declaring war on Ukraine for their, as mentioned, mass murder of 14000 ethnic Russian civilians during 8 long years of terror he ignored and did nothing about.

    Declaration of war would have been the right move from both military and PR side, as right now, people that do not know much about any of this, have trouble distinguishing it from NATO’s invasion of Iraq, Libya, etc., thus Russia’s side needs to constantly explain at length that this is different, that it is just operation and neither invasion nor war, etc., in other words, PR war lost immediately. With clear war declaration done first, even those that do not know anything about it, would probably say “Well, it must be something serious, otherwise Russia wouldn’t have declared war.”

    As we know, as Russia got involved, the West responded with sanctions and everything, while Putin continued to please the West with his guaranty that he’ll stay the most reliable partner to them. He said couple of bad things about the West (Empire of lies, etc.), but all that seemed forced, scripted, not sincere, and only for local consumption.

    So here we are with essentially a full war, with more and more countries getting involved in one way or the other, and that is most likely going to be leading us into WW3, while one side loves the other – i.e. battered-Putin-syndrome in his one-sided abusive love relationship with his “partners”.

    Thoughts?

    • Replies: @Jim Jatras
  145. Anon001 says:
    @Anon001

    Quote: “For example, in WW1, Bulgarians slaughtered 420 Serbian children that hid in some house but were discovered. The graveyard of those children exists even today.”

    I forgot to mention that that was just one example out of countless cases of Bulgarian crimes against Serbian civilians.

  146. Sgt York says:
    @Rogue

    Agree that war is never a clean business. I found the Patriots joining after 911 amusingly annoying. Those of us that predated and ultimately outlasted these fools never thought that the Twin Towers were anything but an excuse. Once you’ve seen a couple of building implosions they are obvious. Saddam obviously tried to avoid war, no way was he allowed to stop invasion. And Afghanistan? Laughably obvious. Still envy the Vietnam guys, as they had LBFMs to screw after ops, but in three wars I was able to avoid dioxin, unlike them. Still, the sight of junior enlisted jacking off in barracks is nothing if not disconcerting. Worth a PTSD rating if nothing else

  147. Anne Lid says:
    @Odyssey

    Petőfi was not Serbian, not even half Serbian, but 100 percent Slovakian. His father had already turned halfway Hungarian culture wise, and the son on his own choosing became Hungarian. Not only Serbians are called Petrovics. Lajos Jakus researcher found birth data all the way till 1685, father’s line is from Nyitra, mother’s is from Turóc, both in present day Slovakia. Moreover all these ancestors were evangelicals. Perhaps someone further down the line was an actual Serbian, who knows, but there is no proof for it, and there are other Evangelicals in those parish registers or vestry books (not sure which expression is more applicable) going by the name of Petrovics, and they weren’t Serbs.

    It really is a minor point. We love him either way.

  148. Anne Lid says:
    @Anon001

    Dear Anon001, if the number killed by Hungarians were ten times more, we would all know it by now. It’s not like Hungarians were some protected species akin to the Chosen, whose sins are covered and martyrs exaggerated.

    • Replies: @Anon001
  149. Anne Lid says:
    @Odyssey

    Concerning #131 as well, there is a book in Serbian by a Hungarian, I will definitely find the title and author. After Trianon some Germans (Schwabs) and Hungarians left the newly Yugoslavian territories and lots of Serbians were sent to their places as the government decided that a Slav majority was needed and others were not given much respect. Before Hungarians and Germans together were slightly in the majority, about 56%. So when the Hungarian army arrived in ’41 the remaining Hungarians were exceedingly happy, since they could walk with their heads high again.

    Most definitely there were partisan and chetnik attacks on the Hungarian army, and that’s how the terrible massacre of about 4000 originated. I knew about the people shot into the icy waters because I saw a Hungarian film when I was a kid, very well known adaptation of a book that was based on these events. It is not a secret in Hungary, we know about it. The reason why I think Anon001 has exaggerated the number of victims is because even in that times the Hungarians had conducted a thorough investigation and after the war also there was investigation from the Yugoslav side, who had no reason to minimise the numbers.

    What was committed against Hungarians, Germans and Croats a few years later was not well known. The guilty and their children did not wish to be known, to be punished, or to give back what they stole.

    The number of murdered Hungarians could be 40 000. 20 000 names are established, the nameless could be as many. Hungarians were declared collectively guilty. From three villages those Hungarians who were not killed were sent to concentration camps, women and children too, a complete ethnic cleansing. The people were brutally tortured, their bodies desecrated, thrown into the pit for diseased animal carcasses or into rivers and such. Over some mass grave was placed a trash heap, over another a bus stop, and so on, they tried to blot their memory out. 30 (conservative number) Catholic priests were tortured and killed. I heard about at least one reformed pastor, too.

    As I said, we do not blame all Serbians for it (though it would have been right to have the organisers tried and punished, but God will take care of that), but an admission and an apology would set the relations right. Of course we love Serbs, I do, lovely people, lovely culture. But the memory of these good Hungarians, our brothers we lost so painfully must be kept. One victim’s son put up 13 crosses in the same place because the cross kept disappearing. We remember.

    • Replies: @Odyssey
    , @Odyssey
  150. Odyssey says:
    @Anne Lid

    Anne, there are several primary schools in Vojvodina (links bellow) which have the name of Sandor Petefi, so as several various companies. Do you know any institution in Slovakia with this name? But, this is not the most important. Slovaks are a Serbian outfit anyway. Serbs lived between Peloponnese and Baltic when Magyars came in 896 AC from Asia to Pannonia. Up to 1848, Serbs were a majority in today’s Hungary and now there are less than 5000 of them. How come? There was a brutal Magyarization of Serbian children after 1848. This thing never happened in Serbia and cannot be explained with affinity toward Hungarian’s culture. I am not sure if you are aware that the most of Hungarians are of Serbian origin. You (and probably CM) will be surprised if I tell you that in in the disputed Transylvania (Erdely), both, Hungarians and Romanians, are of Serbian origins which can be confirmed by old Austrian tax books.

    So, I told you, in Vojvodina did not exist neither partisans (communists) nor Chetniks (royals). They were situated in Bosnian rugged mountains where they could hide and fight a guerrilla war and where they were protecting Serbian people from Ustasha’s genocide. It is untrue that anyone attacked Hungarian Nazi soldiers. There was not any battle in plain Vojvodina until the end of the war when Russians came on their way to Berlin. The fact is that Hungarian soldiers killed almost 12000 civilians in the Novi Sad by throwing them under Danube ice. It is untrue that Yugoslav army, which consisted mostly of Serbs, committed atrocities on civilian population. That was a Croatian Ustashas specialty. You said that this is not well known but you are here presenting propaganda speculations as facts. This propaganda has a goal to neutralize and disguise the atrocities conducted by Hungarian Nazi soldiers on civilians immediately after entering Yugoslavia. You did not answer my #145 question, I will assume it means, yes.

    https://ospetefins.edu.rs/
    https://www.petefibecej.edu.rs/
    https://www.pasch-net.de/de/pasch-schulen/schulportraets/europa/srb/osnovna-skola-petefi-sandor.html
    https://ilovezrenjanin.com/vesti-zrenjanin/nagrade-za-kud-petefi-sandor/

    • Replies: @Anne Lid
    , @Anne Lid
    , @Anne Lid
  151. Odyssey says:

    So many people in the West expect from Russia’s victory in Ukraine to liberate them as well from their Deep State dictatorship which controls every aspect of their social and economic life and which has thrown their society in a perverted decadency by endorsing the darkest and deviant nuances of human nature. Some of these people greeted the sacking of Hilarion, who was a suspicious ecumenist, vax promoter and God knows what else. They expect the renewal of the Russian Orthodox Church and its positive influence on creating a healthy society which eventually would spill over to the West as well.

    Are such expectations justified? It should be known that Hilary was a protégé of the Patriarch Kirill who appointed him to this position 13 years ago when he took over the ROC throne. Kirill himself was a protégé of met Nikodim, a strong ecumenist who was pushing hard to place ROC under Pope’s governance. Nikodim was a leading candidate to become a Patriarch himself but, fortunately for Russia, it was Pimen who was elected. Nikodim was unbelievable subservient to the Pope that before the ordination of candidates to the priesthood, he asked everyone a question: ‘Do you promise that if I convert to Catholicism, that you will follow me?” If the candidate answered “no”, they would quickly remove him. Only those who answered in the affirmative would be ordained.

    He founded the Department for External Church Relations, modelled on the Masonic pyramid. As a secret Catholic, he became the President of the DECR of the Moscow Patriarchate. His right hand, the current Patriarch Kirill, succeeded him in this position and Hilary later succeeded Kirill. His ‘second’ right hand, Filaret Denisenko is a strong opponent of Russia and ROC and his protégé was ordained as a Patriarch of Bartholomew’s (for whom is known that is a CIA agent) Ukrainian Orthodox Church. In the following photo we can see all three of them while visiting the Pope John Paul II to congratulate him his election to be a Pope.

    View post on imgur.com

    The curse of the abbess that he would end up like a dog with his pope was fulfilled. These eerie but prophetic words were uttered by the blessed old woman Pelagia of Ryazan in 1965 to Metropolitan Nicodim. “You’ll die like a dog, in front of your pope’s feet!” After 13 years, her words came true. Nikodim died from hearth attack in front of JP II’s feet, who tried to help and pick him up.

    Patriarch Kirill blessed the special operation in Ukraine. It seems that ROC clergy pressurized him to release his ecumenist protégé Hilary and to give his approval for intervention in Ukraine. Similarly, Putin, who was also mumbling about Nato membership, was also pressurized by military top ranks to finally take an overdue action before is too late. Let’s hope that two old friends from Leningrad, finally recognized their fallacies and they would return back to serve own people, not some secret deep structures.

  152. I don’t know if Hungarians are Serbs or some other Slavs but they definitely don’t look like no Asians to me. Whatever Asian there may be has been majorly diluted by now.

    Actually the partisan uprising was started in Vojvodina by some communist from the Spanish civil war killing two cops.

    Sandor Petefi is not only the national poet of Hungary but was one of the leaders of the 1848 revolution I referred to in an earlier comment without naming him. Definitely a great man whatever his origin.

    • Replies: @Odyssey
    , @Odyssey
    , @Odyssey
  153. Anne Lid says:
    @Odyssey

    Don’t you find it likely that Vojvodina has schools named after Petofi because of the Hungarians living there?

  154. Odyssey says:
    @Anne Lid

    Anne, I found where the falsification of 45000 Hungarian victims came from. It is analyzed by Eniko Sajti:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enik%C5%91_A._Sajti

    I read her paper (in Serbian):

    http://adattar.vmmi.org/fejezetek/1340/05_partizanska_odmazda_protiv_madara_u_vojvodini.pdf

    There is probably this paper in Hungarian as well. I also read her paper in the Book, p.424 (as much as I could understand Hungarian):

    http://real.mtak.hu/23574/1/CSERNUS_65_PDF.pdf

    So, according to Eniko, the figure of 40 or 20 000 is exaggerated, i.e. incorrect.

    Based on one official investigation there were, between 1941-1948, in total 83 881 registries victims, for any reason, in Vojvodina – Serbs (42 283), Jews (15 495), Germans (15 419), Hungarians (4624), Croats (2702), Other (Gypsy, Ruthenians, Czech) – 43.

    • Replies: @Anne Lid
  155. Anne Lid says:
    @Odyssey

    I am a bit unsure what #145 question refers to: concrete data of atrocities committed against Hungarians or the verity of attraction between marriageable Hungarian women and Serbian men? It is a given that there are lots of inter marriages.

  156. Wielgus says:
    @Anon001

    John Aubrey’s Brief Lives is worth reading. Basically 17th century gossip but very entertaining. Even Shakespeare gets a mention – Aubrey seems to have met elderly people who had known him or whose parents had, one reason I believe Shakespeare wrote most or all the plays and poems attributed to him.
    As for Fantom, there seem to have been hundreds at least like him in the Thirty Years’ War, one reason it was such a terrible conflict.

  157. Gg Mo says:
    @Emslander

    Agreed, He leaves out that the Moscow Patriarch is former KGB and has a Rabbi : Lazar. Most of the Orthodox Church “leaders” have been compromised by the Chabad Lubavitch , Global Bankers (“returning relics” Hah !), the US State Dept. etc etc. with infiltration rampant over the last 150 years . The EP Bartholomew and the MP Kirill are just the “big-dog: actors , for Dialectic effect, put on the stage to signal ,and shepherd for the anti-christ. They both love ecumenism and the pope, they both love worldly power and politics . etc

  158. Anne Lid says:
    @Odyssey

    Magyars were a mix of cooperating tribes from the beginning. And we have melted many various ethnicities into our nation, rarely forcefully, as you presume.
    I am in a tiny minority who thinks that the 1848 revolution was a stupid, bad idea, heroes and romantic sheen aside. If we wanted better, fairer conditions we should have gone about it peacefully and tenaciously until we achieve them. Part of the resentment of smaller nations toward Hungarians came from the national fervour gripping my nation. It seems some resentment comes from feelings of inferiority, as in the case of Slovaks, who did not even have an independent country until recently. It is kind of sad, as they have a beautiful culture and land too, so they don’t need to look for imagined enemies to define their identity. Of course they don’t have schools named after Petofi, some Slovaks consider it an offense that he wrote his poems in Hungarian – why not Slovakian? Like we stole their rightful intellectual property or something.

    Your claim that most Hungarians are really magyarized Serbs does not ring true – we have a lot of neighbours and mixed with them thoroughly, are all our neighbours Serbs at heart as well?

    The cowardly attacks on Hungarian forces are documented, your claim that there were none is baseless. Let’s call them what they were, terrorists. The regular Yugoslav army was beaten fair and square and some chose to fight dirty. Dirty they stayed until death.

    I have already gave my reason why your estimation of atrocities committed by Hungarians is wildly out of proportion: we had no power or influence after the WWII, so whatever was committed by us was blamed on us freely.

  159. Odyssey says:
    @Commentator Mike

    CM, there is a science called genetics which can establish if one tribe in antiquity moved to other side of mountain. It is difficult to explain Anne that Hungarians came to Europe from nowhere and took the most fertile land from someone. It seems that I overestimated her. She states that those who defended their country from Hungarian Nazi aggressors who previously pushed 12000 people under Danube ice are – terrorists!!! Unbelievable! Moreover, no one attacked them because Vojvodina is flat agricultural land without forests, simply not any condition for guerrilla war. And, there was not a single battle there for 4 years until Russians came to Yugoslavia. Where they came from? From Hungary!!! No comment that Janos Hunyadi was a Serb, too, or that Serbs were majority in Hungary from 896 until 1848.

    You are wrong, this incident happened in central Serbia in the mountain region during the village celebration (Bela Crkva=White Church), not in Vojvodina. A Serbian Spanish war veteran and communist, killed two Serbian cops. Later, communists declared and celebrated this day this as the First Serbian uprising against Nazi occupation. Actually, it was just the beginning of the civil war between communists and Serb Royal followers.

    • Thanks: Commentator Mike
    • Replies: @Anne Lid
  160. Odyssey says:
    @Commentator Mike

    CM, just realised, there is a place in Vojvodina with the same name – Bela Crkva, because you made a mistake! There is another interesting concept here for contemplating. There are some nations which are proud for conquering some others land and they do not hide this. For example, Turks. They know when and where they came from and from whom they took the land. Only, they hide that only 50-250 thousand of real Turks came from Central Asia to the East Roman Empire which had 6 million of people. It means that many of modern Turks are ethnically Greeks or Serbs. Their physiognomy is different from Kazakhs, for example. Because, it is prohibited in Turkey to study about real origins.

    Hungarians also do not hide that they came from Asia and their Academy of Science established that it was for 4 years, about 896AC. They have a lot of folk stories, songs, fairy tales, children verse related to their migration to Europe. They also do not recognise that they practiced very aggressive assimilation of indigenous people from whom they got today’s physiognomy. They enforced their language with help from Catholic Church, unlike Asiatic Bulgars who adopted the language from indigenous people and they got assimilated themselves.

    On the other hand, Greeks hide that they came to Europe from Middle East and tend to live impression that they are indigenous people They at great extent adopted mythology and the language from locals and over time they changed this language. It is interesting that they were not white, and they also got some physiognomy from local people. In all three cases, Hungarians, Greeks, Bulgars (and partially Turks) took the land and genes from Serbs and in some cases the language and mythology, too.

    • Replies: @Odyssey
  161. Anne Lid says:
    @Odyssey

    Janos Hunyadi was Wallachian, that is Romanian. Keep on trying, eventually you will find a bona fide Serbian Hungarian!
    I can help, if you wish!

  162. Anne Lid says:
    @Odyssey

    A. Sajti Enikő is a good old Marxist. Her methodology involving the documents from OZNA (Odelenje za Zastitu Naroda) is faulty: 90 percent of the murders happened without judge or jury, and no paperwork. Reputable researchers used birth registries together with interviewing survivors, and produced lists of names.
    You exaggerate the numbers of the Yugoslav victims and at the same time lessen the number of Hungarian victims. Why? Are you not interested in truth, just self aggrandisement?

    The difference between the two blood baths is that one was a rogue event stopped by Hungarian officials, investigated, documented, and brought out to the open. The other was organised from the top, a conscious ethnocide supported by ordinary Serbs. The perpetrators were not only never punished, but their crime not even mentioned. Mere alluding to what happened had serious consequences. The survivors carried their horrible memories in themselves. No wonder you have not seen memorials, only after the 1990 were people allowed to talk.

    It is a pretty ridiculous statement that because the land is flat there could not have been partisans. They and the chetniks (who did not like each other either) killed Hungarian soldiers and set fire to wheat stores. It is such a well established fact that it merely amuses me how you cannot even fathom that the massacre had a spark to light it. Hungarian nazis just shot people under the ice, 20 thousand to boot! No, it was well investigated, it was nowhere near that, and it was horrible, shameful and senseless, so the number is not particularly important, but since there was a thorough examination of the events, we know the sequence of the events and the approximate number of victims.

  163. Anon001 says:
    @Anne Lid

    Dear Anne,

    Numbers are still not officially reported, even after so many decades, because Serbia is still occupied and run by its enemies. E.g. Fake Vatican/Austrian/German-invented history is still the official one in Serbia. Main history professor in charge of history thought in schools in Serbia is a Serb-hating Croat, just like his predecessor, also Croat, from the communist era. Traitors in the Academy of Science (SANU) publicly deny that Serbs are indigenous people of Europe. “President” of Serbia is nothing but a slimy puppet and a political prostitute of the West. He’s working hard, as ordered by the West, as a condition to be left in power, to separate Serbia’s province of Vojvodina (North Serbia) from it too and make it a separate country, just as he’s been doing with Serbia’s Province of Kosovo. List goes on and on.

    Once Serbia is free, the extent of multiple genocides and ethnocides, mass murder, and other heinous crimes committed against Orthodox Christian Serbs over decades and centuries by Vatican, Austrians, Germans, Hungarians, British, Croats, Bosnian Muslims, Shqiptars/Albanians, Bulgarians, Greeks, and many others, will become known.

  164. Odyssey says:
    @Odyssey

    PS: CM, hope you find the concept in #163 interesting and I expect that you, at the end of the day, subscribe and co-author this. Just to expand with another interesting case of another Asian group apart from Hungarians, Bulgars and Greeks –> Germans. So, they also conquered the land from the same indigenous people and acquired their physiognomy (I think that Prussian is perceived as a typical German look). Would not now spend time on their original descriptions in old texts. Later on, we can expand this concept on Romanians (did I say that Wallachians is one of the names of previously mentioned indigenous people), Croats, etc, which are similar but slightly different cases.
    Could you pls tell me which of the previous cases (H,B,G,G) you find the least convincing to strengthen my argument for the next round of discussion, which is pretty important and which has its modern reflections.

    In addition, there is one picture of Vojvodina, you can imagine 150 km in radius of the same. You would agree, not a place where you would organise a guerrilla war unlike the other one.

    View post on imgur.com

    View post on imgur.com

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  165. Odyssey says:
    @Commentator Mike

    CM, on the picture is the iconostasis in the Serbian Orthodox Cathedral Church in Belgrade from 1841, created by Dimitrije Petrovic, the first Serbian academic sculptor. On that occasion, 22 compositions of wall paintings, 30 icons on the iconostasis, 3 icons on the thrones, 2 icons on the choirs, 3 icons on the pulpit, 7 icons on the gift box and 6 icons on the ripids were made. Dimitrije was the cousin of Aleksandar Petrovic (Sandor Petofi), born in 1799 in the same place as his cousin, Kishkeresh. Sandor Petofi had only 26 years when he died and he took this artistic name at the age of 20.

    View post on imgur.com

    • Replies: @Anne Lid
  166. @Odyssey

    Well the Germans have been referred to as “Huns” but that was war propaganda supposed to make them hated and barbarous. One wonders if there may not be some truth in it as to their Asian origins, although like with Hungarians, although any “Asianess”is most majorly diluted by now.

    Even Wikipedia claims that Bulgarians are of Turko Mongolic origin.

    There used to be some theories that ancient Greek civilisation was created by Egyptians. There could have been a lot of mixing of the various peoples in the Balkans in the past.

    • Replies: @Odyssey
  167. Odyssey says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Thanks, to sum up and finish this round, you basically agree that all HBGG came to Europe from Asia (& ME/Egypt), they took the land, genes and physiognomy (‘got diluted’) from indigenous people. H&B are straightforward, while G&G should be further explored and cleared from ‘war propaganda’.

  168. Anne Lid says:
    @Odyssey

    Dimitrije Petrovic/Demetrius Petrovits/Demeter Petrowitsch/Petrovics Demeter was born in Baja. His father was a Serbian merchant, while Petőfi’s line on both side was local.
    Petrovic is not a rare name.

  169. @Anon001

    Thank you for your kind words.

    I agree that Putin has gone the extra verst, and then some, seeking accommodation with the West. As many others have pointed out, in a Russian context he is a moderate manager seeking to balance the various factions in his government and in Russian society. In that sense, his personal inclination is rather like that of Yanukovich and, until the latest color revolution attempt against him, Lukashenk0, to straddle.

    Whatever his inclinations, though, the West has foreclosed that option for him. As you pointed out, he decided to act decisively in Syria, and now he has been forced to do so in Ukraine. After years of seeking a peaceful diplomatic path on Ukraine (which, yes, coldly sacrificed thousands of people in the Donbass) he found himself with few options. I am reminded of the old saying that the United States finally does the right thing but only after exhausting all the other options. This may be more accurate with respect to Russia (not just Putin but Lavrov, Shoigu, Medvedev, etc.) than the US. Besides, in 2014 Russia was not prepared militarily or financially for a showdown with the West, nor did they have China’s solid backing. Now those pieces are in place.

    As I see it, the Russians are not aiming for rapid destruction of Ukraine or capture of Ukrainian cities. Rather, via methodical and unspectacular reduction of Ukrainian forces, they (it appears, since I’m not privy to the Kremlin’s internal deliberations) are putting themselves into a position to dictate settlement terms while allowing least risk of direct NATO involvement (which Russia seeks to avoid not because NATO would win – it wouldn’t – but because escalation to strategic nuclear level would then be hard to avoid: everyone dies). This is another reason why Russia (not just Putin) doesn’t seem to be bothered much by insults and humiliations; rather than respond in pique to affronts to prestige the best revenge is to just plow ahead and win “boring” as Gonzalo Lira says.

    Also, it seems that for Russia, backed up by China, Ukraine (and potentially Taiwan) must be seen in the context of a global struggle that is mainly economic and financial. Abetted by our clueless mandarin political and business leadership class that for decades has driven the West (North America and Western Europe) into an existential social, political, economic, and financial – and ultimately spiritual – dead end, we are now seeing the chickens coming home to roost, for which the self-destructive sanctions imposed on Russia are less a cause than a catalyst. The effect will be the long overdue death of NATO and its sister abomination the EU and the emergence of the multipolar order that should have emerged in 1991 (but didn’t, in light of the insane neocon quest for global domination), belatedly inaugurating a stable and constructive international order since the last one committed seppuku in 1914. Put another way, this is WWIII, which, as The Saker puts it, is only in a small percentage “kinetic” — in Ukraine, where the Eurasian powers would like to see it confined — while the big play is financial and economic. IMO that’s going quite well for Eurasia, disastrously for the Western mandarins.

    Certainly much could still go wrong. Moscow could throw away a winning hand in favor of some kind of settlement relying on promises by the same gang that has broken so many in the past. I hope that doesn’t happen don’t think it will. More dangerously IMO, our stoooopid and criminal leaders could choose (or stumble into) a “Samson Option,” bringing everything down, burying themselves and everyone else along with them – lights out for everybody. At the moment, though, perhaps the flailing of the Fed and the ECB point rather to helplessness leading eventually to resignation, then acceptance.

    In any case, from the POV of American patriotism there is a glimmer of hope. While we are about to see a level of chaos and pain in this country none of us has witnessed in our lifetimes (Europe first and worse, probably) there’s at least a prospect that something like a normal – national, not globalist – America (freed from Woke Democrats and most of the equally worthless Republicans Party, along with their corporate overlords) will emerge at the end of the ordeal. In that sense, perhaps we undeservedly are being offered a “soft landing” similar to that afforded the USSR thirty years ago. I think it’s the best we can hope for: http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2021/september/16/it-s-later-than-you-think/

    • Agree: Passing By
    • Replies: @Jim Jatras
    , @Anon001
  170. @Jim Jatras

    Re: “Certainly much could still go wrong. Moscow could throw away a winning hand in favor of some kind of settlement relying on promises by the same gang that has broken so many in the past.”

    Today’s news that Russia has withdrawn from Snake Island as a “goodwill gesture” is disquieting. What “goodwill” can they possibly expect in return? Kiev is already crowing that they recaptured the Island. Maybe a trick to keep the Ukrainians and NATO thinking they can win, so that the war continues and Russia will take more of Ukraine? Possible but doubtful. Seems more like reversion to rose-colored glasses regarding so-called “partners” in the West.

    • Replies: @Jim Jatras
  171. @Jim Jatras

    This report from Intel Slava Z makes more sense. “Goodwill” is just window dressing:

    “🇷🇺🇺🇦 So yes, Snake Island will be abandoned by Russian troops.
    Ensuring the defense of an object that is within reach not only of missile systems, but also of cannon artillery, turned out to be very problematic and costly over a long distance.

    Nevertheless, the main reason was the lack of reconnaissance and target designation equipment of the operational-tactical level in the arsenal of the fleet and the Aerospace Forces, which would allow effective targeting of aircraft and Caliber. Like, for example, the UAV MQ-9 Reaper.

    Tactical UAVs can be launched from the territory of the island, but they do not provide round-the-clock reconnaissance of enemy targets to a sufficient depth, as a result of which it becomes very difficult to hit a maneuverable target.

    It is necessary to return the island either when control over the Odessa region is established, or immediately before the signing of a truce. Otherwise, there will be only vain sacrifices.”

    • Replies: @Anon001
    , @Passing By
  172. Anon001 says:
    @Jim Jatras

    Seems like self-sabotage followed by QAnon 5D-chess style “explanation”. I mean what kind of army publicly announces its withdrawal?

    Do you happen to follow Igor Strelkov/Girkin? Not a Putin fan by all means!
    Google Search: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Igor%20Strelkov%22%7C%22Igor%20Girkin%22

  173. Anon001 says:
    @Jim Jatras

    I believe that there are two currents in Kremlin at this point – patriotic one that includes military vs Putin with his 5th column buddies. Putin seems to be losing his grip on power, as confirmed indirectly by so many traitors skipping town – Chubais, et.al. They are afraid that Putin may lose it all, leaving them exposed to patriots, which in turn may start arresting same people that have been robbing Russia for more than 30 years. Chubais is one of the most hated people in Russia, after Yeltsin and Gorbachev, yet Putin kept him close by for 20+ years. He’d have been still there had he not escaped on his own accord. They keep saying that Ukraine operation is the reason they are leaving, but I don’t believe that. Ship is not sinking, it’s just that some patriotic cats are showing up!

    I’ve heard at least one NATO analyst saying that they did not expect Putin to react in Ukraine, i.e. they expected him to betray those people just as he did in 2014 and during 8 years that followed, which explains why they went for it without any big prep. Now they won’t back down as their hubris/arrogance would not allow it.

    We also remember Putin sending peace negotiators immediately as Russia’s Ukraine operation commenced, which seems strange. But, in my view, I think that he simply tried to get anything on the table in order to be able to go back to generals and order them to either withdraw or at least stop advancing – which confirms my guess that he did not want to react to Feb 2022 attacks on those regions, and only did so for army told him that he had to.

    P.S. I do not buy Putin’s apologists “explanation”/”excuse” for why he did nothing in 2014. He could have stopped West’s color revolution (i.e. coup d’état) there easily, as it was not a civil war like in Feb 2022, but rather just riots. E.g. he could have just asked Ukrainian president to invite Russian special forces or troops to help, just as Syria and Kazakhstan did. Rather, he did nothing for some reason that we’ll most likely find out once he finally retires.

    Do you happen to have public email or some contact form?

    • Replies: @Jim Jatras
  174. @Anon001

    “E.g. he could have just asked Ukrainian president to invite Russian special forces or troops to help, just as Syria and Kazakhstan did. Rather, he did nothing for some reason that we’ll most likely find out once he finally retires.”

    According to my sources at the time, he did. He told Yanukovich to do what needed to be done, Russia would back him all the way (as recently happened in Belarus and Kazakhstan). Yanukovich refused, preferred to “compromise” his way out with his Western friends acting as brokers.

    I don’t follow Girkin. In general I agree with the Saker’s “6th columnist” analysis. https://thesaker.is/is-there-a-6th-column-trying-to-subvert-russia/

    Contact me via DM on Twitter. https://twitter.com/JimJatras

    • Replies: @Anon001
  175. Anon001 says:
    @Jim Jatras

    Although I’m grateful to Saker for his constant support for the Serbian people, I disagree with his analysis of almost everything Putin. He and Martyanov act more like Putin’s groupies and Putin’s QAnon than objective analysts. He blocks most comments on his portal/blog that are polite but critical of Putin. Everything is some kind of 5D-chess to them, i.e. when Putin looks bad or does something that looks weak or when his “partners” humiliate him and Russia, according to them, he’s just being cunning and setting up some trap that never activates and neither shows any results nor reverts any bad things that have happened.

    Regarding Ukraine in 2014: Just read this very good comment [1] by a visitor called ‘Stanley Sheppard’. Not sure how accurate it is, but it does sound very interesting, including the video of Putin linked in the comment itself (fast forward to 1m 53s for the close ups of Putin’s facial expressions):
    [1] https://edwardslavsquat.substack.com/p/staying-cozy-inside-the-russophile/comment/4136167

  176. @Jim Jatras

    Devoting resources to keeping the island just doesn’t make military sense at this point. It was taken in the initial phase of the operation, at the same time when troops were rushed to Kiev. After the change of focus in the operations, it became only a matter of time when the Russians would decide to leave the island.

    • Replies: @Jim Jatras
  177. @Passing By

    I agree. It will be interesting to see if Ukrainian forces try to reoccupy it now that it’s been “liberated.” If so, they can be just as easily pounded as the Russians there were.

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