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“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary” — H.L. Mencken

As the global pandemic grips world attention, completely unnoticed by mainstream media was the release of a final report of an academic study pertaining to another previously calamitous event of international significance. On March 25th, the conclusion of a four year investigation by researchers at the University of Alaska Fairbanks was published which determined that the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 on September 11th, 2001 was not caused by fire. The peer-reviewed inquiry was funded by Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, a nonprofit organization composed of more than 3,000 building architects and engineers who are a signatory to the group’s formal appeal calling for a new investigation into the three — not two — WTC skyscrapers destroyed on 9/11. The researchers infer that the collapse of Building 7 was actually the result of a controlled demolition:

“The principal conclusion of our study is that fire did not cause the collapse of WTC 7 on 9/11, contrary to the conclusions of NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) and private engineering firms that studied the collapse. The secondary conclusion of our study is that the collapse of WTC 7 was a global failure involving the near-simultaneous failure of every column in the building.”

With or without a pandemic, it is likely corporate media would have ignored the study anyway, just as they have anything that contradicts the official story of 9/11. However, it is notable that many have drawn parallels between the COVID-19 outbreak and the 9/11 attacks based on the widespread changes to daily life as a result of the crisis going forward. Already there is talk of nationwide lockdowns as a “new normal” with many rightly expressing concerns over civil liberties, press freedoms, the surveillance state, and other issues just as there were following 9/11. By the same measure, a false dichotomy is being established by political gatekeepers in order to silence those who dare challenge the official account as to how the coronavirus began. It is a stigmatization that is all too familiar to those who have never believed the conventional narrative that 19 Arab hijackers loyal to Osama bin Laden armed only with box-cutters were solely responsible for the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon on that fateful day.

There is a common misconception that to believe in so-called “conspiracy theories” is to somehow lose sight of the bigger picture or systemic problems. Behind this phenomenon is a mistakenly presumed conflict between understanding the broader, overarching system versus the sinister motives of those in power who administer it — when they are inextricably linked. Political scientist Michael Parenti, who drew the ire of many of his fellow left-wing colleagues for his work on the Kennedy assassination, refers to it in his lecture “Understanding Deep Politics” as a perceived incompatibility between “the structural and the functional.” The anti-conspiracists wrongly assume that the more impersonal or wider the lens, the more profound an analysis. By this logic, the elite are absolved of conscious intent and deliberate pursuit of nefarious self-interest, as if everything is done by incidental chance or out of incompetence. Not to say efficacy applies without exception, but it has become a required gesture to disassociate oneself from “conspiracies” to maintain credibility — ironically even by those who are often the target of such smears themselves.

This applies not only to mainstream media and academics, but even leading progressive figures who have a mechanical, unthinking resistance to assigning intent or recognizing the existence of hidden agendas. As a result, it disappears the class interests of the ruling elite and ultimately assists them in providing cover for their crimes. With the exception of the Kennedy assassination — coincidentally the subject of a new epic chart-topping song by Bob Dylan — nowhere has there been more hostility to ‘conspiracism’ than regarding the events of 9/11. Just as they assailed Parenti, David Talbot and others for challenging the Warren Commission’s ‘lone gunman’ theory, leading figures on the left such as Noam Chomsky and the late Alexander Cockburn railed against the 9/11 Truth movement and today it is often wrongly equated with right-wing politics, an unlikely trajectory given it occurred under an arch-conservative administration but an inevitable result of the pseudo-left’s aversion to “conspiracies.” If polls are any indication, the average American certainly disagrees with such elitist misleaders as to the believability of the sham 9/11 Commission findings, yet another example of how out-of-touch the faux-left is with ordinary people.

A more recent example was an article by left-wing journalist Ben Norton proclaiming that to call 9/11 a false flag or an “inside job” is “fundamentally a right-wing conspiracy”, in complete disregard of the many dedicated truther activists on the left since its inception. Norton insists the 9/11 attacks were simply “blowback”, or an unintended consequence of previous U.S. foreign policy support for the mujahideen in Afghanistan against the Soviets during the 1980s which later gave birth to Al-Qaeda and the Taliban. Norton argues “Al-Qaeda’s unofficial strategic alliance with the US eventually broke down” resulting in 9/11 as retaliation, completely overlooking that Washington was still supporting jihadist factions during the 1990s in Bosnia (two of which would be alleged 9/11 hijackers) and Kosovo in the Yugoslav wars against Serbia, even while the U.S. was ostensibly pursuing bin Laden for the bombings of two U.S. embassies in Africa in 1998 and the USS Cole in 2000.

A 1997 Congressional document by the Republican Policy Committee (RPC) throws light on how Washington never discontinued its practice in Afghanistan of using jihadist proxies to achieve its foreign policy goals in the Balkans. Although it was a partisan GOP attack meant to discredit then-U.S. President Bill Clinton, nevertheless the memo accurately presents how the U.S. had “turned Bosnia into a Militant Islamic Base”:

“In short, the Clinton administration’s policy of facilitating the delivery of arms to the Bosnian Muslims made it the de facto partner of an international network of governments and organizations pursuing their own agenda in Bosnia: the promotion of Islamic revolution in Europe. That network not only involves Iran but Brunei, Malaysia, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan (a key ally of Iran), and Turkey, together with front groups supposedly pursuing humanitarian and cultural activities. For example, one such group about which details have come to light is the Third World Relief Agency (TWRA), a Sudan-based, phoney humanitarian organization which has been a major link in the arms pipeline to Bosnia. TWRA is believed to be connected with such fixtures of the Islamic terror network as Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman (the convicted mastermind behind the 1993 World Trade Center bombing) and Osama Bin Laden , a wealthy Saudi émigré believed to bankroll numerous militant groups…”

It was also in Bosnia where a raid was conducted in 2002 by local police at the Sarajevo branch of a Saudi-based purported charitable organization, Benevolence International Foundation, which was discovered to be a front for Al-Qaeda. Seized on the premises was a document, dubbed the “Golden Chain”, which listed the major financial sponsors of the terrorist organization to be numerous Saudi business and government figures, including some of Osama bin Laden’s own brothers. By the 9/11 Commission Report’s own admission, this same fake Islamic charity “supported the Bosnian Muslims in their conflict with Serbia” at the same time as the CIA.

It cannot go without mentioning that the common link between Al-Qaeda and subsequent extremist groups like ISIS/Daesh and Boko Haram is the doctrine of Wahhabism, the puritanical sect of Sunni Islam practiced in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and founded in the 18th century by Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, the religious leader who formed an alliance with the founder of the first Saudi state, Muhammad bin Saud, whose descendants make up the House of Saud royal family. The ultra-orthodox teachings of Wahhabism were initially rejected in the Middle East but reestablished by British colonialism which aligned with the Saud family in order to use their intolerant strain of Islam to undermine the Ottoman empire in a divide-and-conquer strategy. In a speech to the House of Commons in 1921, Winston Churchill admitted the Saudis to be “intolerant, well-armed and bloodthirsty.”

This did not stop the British from supporting the House of Saud so long as it was in the interest of Western imperialism, an unholy alliance which continues to this day. However, U.S.-Saudi relations did come under scrutiny when the infamous 28 redacted pages of the December 2002 report of the “Joint Inquiry into Intelligence Community Activities before and after the Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001” conducted by the Senate and House Select Committees on Intelligence were finally disclosed in 2016. The section revealed not only the numerous U.S. intelligence failures in the lead-up to the attacks but the long suspected culpability of Saudi Arabia, whose nationals were not the focus of counterterrorism because of Riyadh’s status as a U.S. ally. The declassified pages show that some of the hijackers, 15 of them Saudi citizens, received financial and logistical support from individuals linked to the Saudi government, which FBI sources believed at least two of which to be Saudi intelligence officers. One of those Saudi agents received large payments from Princess Haifa, the wife of Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan, a stipend from the latter’s bank account which inevitably went from the go-betweens to the sleeper cell.

President George W. Bush and Prince Bandar bin Sultan at Bush’s ranch in Crawford, Texas in 2002
President George W. Bush and Prince Bandar bin Sultan at Bush’s ranch in Crawford, Texas in 2002

A key member of the House of Saud and then-Saudi Ambassador to the U.S., Prince Bandar has such a long and close relationship to the Bush family he was given the nickname “Bandar Bush.” For obvious reasons, when the congressional joint inquiry report was first published in 2003, the 28-page portion on the Saudi ties to the attacks was completely censored at the insistence of the Bush administration. Yet the Bush family’s connection to the Gulf state kingdom is not limited to the ruling monarchy but includes one of the petrodollar theocracy’s other wealthiest families— the bin Laden family itself. While Michael Moore’s film Fahrenheit 9/11 mostly whitewashed the real conspiracy of 9/11 , it did reveal that numerous unquestioned members of the bin Laden family were given special treatment and suspiciously evacuated on secret flights out of the U.S. shortly after the attacks in coordination with the Saudi government.

The Bush-bin Laden connection goes all the way back to the beginning of George W. Bush’s business career prior to his political involvement in 1976 with the founding of an oil drilling company, Arbusto Energy, whose earliest investors included a Texas businessman and fellow reservist in the Texas Air National Guard, James R. Bath, who oddly enough was the American liaison for Salem bin Laden, Osama’s half brother. To put it differently, the bin Laden family and its construction fortune helped finance Bush’s start in the oil industry, a relationship that would continue through the 1990s with Harken Energy, later the recipient of an offshore oil contract in Iraq’s reconstruction alongside Dick Cheney’s Halliburton. The Bush dynasty’s financial ties to both the Saudi royals and bin Laden family went on as co-investors in the Carlyle Group private equity firm where the elder Bush’s previous government service contacts were exploited for financial gain. In fact, on the morning of 9/11, Bush Sr. just happened to be attending a Carlyle business conference where another bin Laden sibling was the guest of honor in what we are supposed to believe is another astounding coincidence. Just days later, Shafiq bin Laden would be spirited off on a chartered flight back to Saudi Arabia in an exodus overseen by Prince Bandar himself.

Osama bin Laden himself also got an evacuation of sorts when the U.S. invaded Afghanistan in 2001. It was legendary Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Seymour Hersh who first reported that bin Laden and thousands of other Al-Qaeda and Taliban fighters were suspiciously allowed to escape to Pakistan in an evacuation dubbed the ‘airlift of evil.’ This was corroborated in a leaked 2009 Hillary Clinton State Department email published by WikiLeaks regarding a Senate report on the Battle of Tora Bora and bin Laden’s escape where Clinton advisor Sidney Blumenthal is shown discussing the controversial airlift as having been requested by Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf and approved by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and Vice President Dick Cheney — but don’t dare call it a conspiracy:

“Gary Berntsen, the head of the CIA armed operation in eastern Afghanistan, is a major source for the report. I am in contact with him and have heard his entire story at length, key parts of which are not in his book, Jawbreaker, or in the Senate report. In particular , the story of the Kunduz airlift of the bulk of key AQ and Taliban leaders, at the request of Musharaff and per order Cheney/Rumsfeld, is absent.”

Could it have anything to do with just a few years earlier the Taliban visiting Texas when Bush was Governor to discuss with the Unocal Corporation the construction of a gas pipeline through Afghanistan into Pakistan? It is also well known that the Pakistani government and its Inter-Services Intelligence Agency (ISI) had supported the Taliban for decades and during the 1980s had been the CIA’s main conduit for supplying arms to the Afghan mujahideen, including bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri’s Maktab al-Khidamat, the organizational precursor to Al-Qaeda. As shown in the documentary 9/11: Press for Truth, little in their relations changed in the years between the Afghan-Soviet war and 9/11, as ISI director Mahmud Ahmed was reportedly busted wiring $100,000 to alleged hijacker ringleader Mohamed Atta not long before the WTC attacks. Throughout 2001 both before and after 9/11, General Ahmed had repeatedly visited the U.S. and met with top Pentagon and Bush administration officials, including CIA Director George Tenet, making Prince Bandar not the only figure to have been caught financing the operation and where a direct line can be drawn between the White House and the hijackers.

While Bandar has thus far eluded justice, one year after the release of the 28 pages a lawsuit was filed on behalf of the families of the victims against the government of Saudi Arabia which presented new evidence that two years prior to the attacks in 1999, the Saudi Embassy paid for the flights of two Saudi agents living undercover in the U.S. to fly from Phoenix to Washington “in a dry run for the 9/11 attacks” where they attempted to breach the cockpit and test flight security. This means the Saudi government was likely involved in planning the attacks from the very beginning, in addition to providing the subsidies and patsy hijacker personnel for the smokescreen of blaming Al-Qaeda and making bin Laden the fall guy, whose links to 9/11 are tenuous at best. After all, the “confession” from supposed planner Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was extracted only after his being water-boarded 183 times while bin Laden himself initially denied any role in the attacks before questionable videos were released of his admittance.

The Saudi nationals who participated in the hijacking rehearsal were posing as students. However, the Sunni dictatorship was not the only country conducting a mass espionage operation in the U.S. prior to 9/11 under such a front. In the first half of 2001, several U.S. federal law enforcement agencies documented more than 130 different instances of young Israelis impersonating “art students” while aggressively trying to penetrate the security of various government and military facilities as part of a Mossad spy ring. Several of the Israelis were found to be living in locations within the near vicinity of the hijackers as if they were eavesdropping on them. The discovery of the Israeli operation raised many questions, namely whether Mossad had advanced knowledge or involvement in 9/11. Ironically, Fox News of all places was one of the few outlets to cover the story in a four-part series which never re-aired and was eventually scrubbed from the network website.

The Israeli “art student” mystery never gained traction in the rest of the media, much like another suspicious case in the “Dancing Israelis”, a smaller group of Mossad spies posing as furnishing movers who were arrested in New Jersey on the morning of 9/11 taking celebratory pictures with the twin towers burning in the background of the Manhattan skyline. The five men were not only physically present at the waterfront prior to the first plane impact but found with thousands of dollars in cash, box-cutters, fake passports, and Arab clothing after they were reported for suspicious behavior and intercepted at the Lincoln tunnel heading into Manhattan. Initially misreported as Arabs by the media, the men were connected to Mossad by an FBI database and held for five months before their deportation to Israel while the owner of the front moving company fled to Jerusalem before further questioning. It should be noted that if Israel were to have participated in a ‘false flag’ attack on the U.S., it would not have been the first time. During the Six-Day War in 1967, the Israeli Air Force and Navy launched an unprovoked attack on the USS Liberty, a U.S. Navy spy ship that was surveilling the Arab-Israeli conflict from international waters in the Mediterranean, an “accidental” assault which killed 34 Americans in an attempt to blame Egypt and provoke U.S. intervention.

If Israel turned out to be co-conspirators with the Saudis, it too is not as unlikely a scenario as it may seem. Wrongly assumed to be sworn enemies, it is an open secret that the two British-created states have maintained a historical covert alliance since the end of World War I when the first monarch of the modern Saudi state, King Abdulaziz Ibn Saud, defeated his rival the Sharif of Mecca who opposed the Balfour Declaration. Authored by British Foreign Secretary Lord Balfour and presented to Zionist leader Baron Rothschild, the 1917 letter guaranteed a Jewish homeland in Palestine by colonization with European Jews. Once Sharif was out the way, the Zionist movement had the green light to move forward with its colonial project. Although Ibn Saud publicly opposed Zionism, behind the scenes he negotiated with them through an intermediary in his advisor, British agent St. John Philby, who proposed a £20 million compensation to the Saudi king for delivering Palestine to the Jews.

Ibn Saud communicated his willingness to compromise in a 1940 letter from Philby to Chaim Weizmann, the president of the World Zionist Organization and later the first Israeli president. However, Philby himself was an anti-Zionist and sabotaged the plan by leaking it to other Arab leaders who voiced their vehement opposition and it was only after this exposure that the Saudi king claimed to have turned down the bribe, something the Zionists would only solicit if they thought he would accept. Ever since, the ideologies of Saudi Wahhabism and Israeli Zionism have been center to the West’s destabilization of the Middle East which contrary to misperceptions was not uniquely plagued by conflict historically more than the Occident until the West nurtured Salafism and Zionism. Predictably, discussing either the Saudi or Israeli role in 9/11 has been strictly forbidden in corporate media, since both are among Washington’s geo-strategic allies and each hold immense lobbying power over large media institutions.

Less than five months after 9/11, Bush notoriously declared the nations of Iran, Iraq and North Korea as comprising an “axis of evil” in his 2002 state of the union address. In reality, the phrase is better suited to describe the tripartite of Saudi Arabia, Israel, and the U.S. government itself who are likely the real trio of conspirators behind 9/11. The infamous choice of words were attributed to neoconservative pundit and Bush speechwriter, David Frum, who claimed to have taken inspiration from Franklin D. Roosevelt’s “a date that will live infamy” speech given the day after the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor in 1941. It was a continuation of a theme present in the manifesto of the neoconservative cabal authored one year prior to 9/11 — “Rebuilding America’s Defenses” by the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) think tank, whose members included Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and Jeb Bush. The strategic military blueprint called for a massive increase in U.S. defense spending in order to “fight and decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theatre wars”before ominously predicting:

“The process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event — like a new Pearl Harbor.

Ten members of PNAC would be subsequently appointed to positions in the Bush White House where their vision of a “new Pearl Harbor” conveniently materialized. Then again, there is plenty of evidence that Pearl Harbor itself was a ‘false flag’, or that U.S. intelligence and President Franklin D. Roosevelt had foreknowledge of an impending Japanese attack on the naval base in Oahu, Hawaii, on December 7th, 1941. As pointed out by the film Loose Change, it is probable that Roosevelt allowed it to happen on purpose in order to win public support for a U.S. entry into the European theatre of World War II, a move opposed by a majority of Americans prior to the ‘surprise’ Japanese attack. Given what is known about Pearl Harbor and the abandoned Operation Northwoods, which proposed both fabricating and committing terrorist attacks on civilian aircraft to be pinned on Fidel Castro in order to justify a U.S. invasion of Cuba in 1962, there are no grounds to assume that such false flag operations were ever phased out of military procedure before 9/11 or since.

Loose Change also made a useful historical analogy between 9/11 and the Reichstag fire, the 1933 arson attack on the German parliament building that occurred a month after Adolf Hitler was inaugurated as Chancellor and pinned on a 24-year old half-blind Dutch communist named Marinus van der Lubbe. While there is no denying the incident was used a pretext by the Nazi regime to consolidate power and suspend law and order, there is still a heated debate between historians as to whether van der Lubbe was the real culprit. However, it was coincidentally in 2001 when a group of historians uncovered evidence that a Nazi stormtrooper who died under mysterious circumstances in 1933 had previously confessed to prosecutors that members of Hitler’s Storm Detachment had set fire to the edifice under orders from paramilitary leader Karl Ernst, lending credence to the widely held suspicion that it was a Nazi-engineered ‘false flag’ all along.

Most Americans are unaware that a similar coup d’etat nearly took place during the same year in the United States in an attempt to remove President Franklin D. Roosevelt and install an authoritarian government modeled on Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany as part of a scheme hatched by an inner circle of right-wing bankers otherwise known as the the ‘Business Plot.’ It was a conspiracy that only became public after it was heroically thwarted by a whistleblower in decorated Marine Corps veteran turned anti-imperialist, Major General Smedley Butler, after he was recruited to form the junta. Incredibly, one of the prominent business figures implicated in the putsch was none other than future Connecticut Senator Prescott Bush, George H.W. Bush’s father and George W. Bush’s grandfather, who at the time was the director and shareholder of a bank owned by German industrialist and prominent Nazi financier Fritz Thyssen seized by the U.S. government under the Trading with the Enemy Act.

After his transformation, in 1935 Smedley Butler famously penned War is a Racket and there is perhaps no better phrase that would sum up the so-called ‘War on Terror’ today. Not only did the American Reichstag fire of 9/11 trigger a domestic police state transformation that overrode the U.S. constitution in an American equivalent of the 1933 Enabling Act and the Heimatschutz (“homeland protection”) defense forces with the passing of the USA-Patriot Act and founding of the Department of Homeland Security, but it fulfilled the prophecy of political scientist Samuel Huntington’s The Clash of Civilizations in a face-off between Islam and Christianity abroad. The prediction that religion and culture would be the primary source of geopolitical conflict in the post-Cold War world was an apocalyptic paradigm envisioned by right-wing orientalist philosophers like Huntington and Bernard Lewis which the PNAC neocon ideologues put into practice. Today, the ongoing COVID-19 crisis appears likely to have similar broad and long-term political, social and economic consequences and those who have doubts about the official explanation for the pandemic can hardly be blamed for their distrust given this history unless the lessons of 9/11 have gone unlearned.

Max Parry is an independent journalist and geopolitical analyst. His writing has appeared widely in alternative media. Max may be reached at [email protected]

 
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  1. Some of this mystery is explained here:

  2. anonymous[400] • Disclaimer says:

    Even with the extensive involvement of the Saudis apparent from the outset Bush nevertheless hung around with Bandar just a couple days after 9-11, laughing and smoking cigars together. Pretty cozy. Every aspect of 9-11 as presented by the official narrative is transparently false. WTC-7 collapse certainly looks like a controlled demolition even to the average person. How some people who could hardly even fly some small propeller planes could suddenly fly complicated jumbo jets around like they did with one supposedly hitting the Pentagon at ground level isn’t explainable. Yet there’s all these strident people out there shrilly shouting down anyone questioning the official government story. Brainwashed true believers for whom facts don’t matter, paid liars, bots, who or what are these people? Then there’s people who come onto internet discussions with outlandish interpretations in order to discredit 9-11 skepticism generally.

  3. anon[873] • Disclaimer says:

    “Doubts” is an awfully reticent way to frame this. Official statements by two allied P-5 nuclear powers – that changes everything. When CIA kills the subject population of its own country, that’s one thing. But now the whole world has a beef. The term of art is erga omnes responsibility to stop CIA crime.

    https://indianpunchline.com/russia-quizzes-us-on-coronavirus-parentage/

    In the sixties/early seventies, too, the last time anybody thought for themselves, we heard a lot of hand-wringing about “the system” or the “establishment,” a thing that’s too vague and amorphous to throw in prison. Hollywood indoctrination focused on bad apples. At the meso-scale in between those extremes, the organizational level, the brainwashing focused on “rogue agencies.”

    What never, ever gets mentioned is the institutionalized impunity that makes CIA inherently criminal and gives it atavistic absolute sovereignty. It’s not the system, it’s the criminal enterprise. It’s not bad apples, they’re all bad apples. CIA is not out of control, it’s firmly IN control.

    Everybody in America knows this. It’s the unavoidable corollary of that immersive Blam, Blam CIA hero entertainment shit. They kill and torture whoever they want. The only hope is to keep people distracted so they don’t follow their logical nose to their ruling Langley junta.

    • Agree: Tom, gay troll
    • Replies: @Spanky
  4. The USS Cole was hit by a Popeye cruise missile launched from an Israeli Dolphin-class submarine.

    The process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event — like COVID-19.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  5. KSA involvement or financing was not necessary for the controlled demolition of the three towers in NYC.
    Were there Saudi art students seen running wires in the towers?
    Were there dancing Saudis seen anywhere in metro area?
    Asbestos cleanup is expensive and time consuming.
    “Pull it!” said the landlord.
    Jewish lightning is a simpler explanation.
    Rudy Giuliani made sure that the contaminated debris was removed quickly.

  6. dimples says:

    I think this is a very good article with many interesting references.

    Parry states:

    “the Saudi Embassy paid for the flights of two Saudi agents living undercover in the U.S. to fly from Phoenix to Washington “in a dry run for the 9/11 attacks” where they attempted to breach the cockpit and test flight security. This means the Saudi government was likely involved in planning the attacks from the very beginning”

    I don’t see how paying for some ‘test’ flights that were likely only done to produce propaganda material for post 911 newscasts makes the Saudis involved in planning the attacks from the very beginning. I think the Saudis were involved in the plot from the beginning as co-conspirators with the US neocon plotters, but would this group of mainly Jewish-American scum trust the Saudis to plan anything? Don’t think so*. You don’t need the patsies to conduct test flights to try out cockpit breaches etc. The plotters would have millions of flights to check out this sort of stuff beforehand.

    *Notice how the Saudis blundered their payments to the patsies and were caught out.

  7. JohnSmith says:

    “…on the morning of 9/11, Bush Sr. just happened to be attending a Carlyle Group business conference…”

    David Rubenstein, billionaire co-founder of the Carlyle Group, is now chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), flagship of the “liberal world order” which has dominated US policy since WW2.

    Most of the Fed chairmen and secretaries of State, Treasury, Defense and CIA have been CFR members. Sponsors include the major banking, energy, defense and media corporations, and many of their execs are CFR members.

    GHW Bush and Dick Cheney are former CFR directors. Laurence Fink, chairman of BlackRock, is a CFR director. Jerome Powell (Fed) and Mark Esper (SecDef) are members. See lists at the CFR website.

    • Agree: Spanky
  8. Can we stop the “evil Nazis” bullshit?
    Your link to the “evidence” of the Reichstag fire being set by “the Nazis”, refutes itself. Not only that, but British Black PsyOps propagandist, responsible for the “death camp” narrative, actually toured the Reichstag with officials and agreed with the conclusion:
    http://www.heretical.com/miscella/reichstg.html

    While there is no denying the incident was used a pretext by the Nazi regime to consolidate power and suspend law and order,

    Well, I deny it. The NSDAP openly blamed the KDP for the fire, the already scheduled election elected the KDP elected 81 to the Reichstag, a drop of only 19, or 4.42% of the poplar vote, keeping it the 3rd largest party in the Reichstag behind the Social Democrats with 120. The NSDAP were not the majority with only 288 seats, although the did gain seats. The Enabling Act required a 2/3 majority. The German National People’s Party and the Centre Party (Catholic) supported the Act. The bill was passed on 23 March with 444 votes for and 94 against. Yes, many KDP (part of Stalin’s Internationale) were arrested and prevented from voting. However, the Act never would have passed without the support of either of the other two parties that supported it. Why did they support it? Perhaps they remembered the communist inspired Spartacist Revolt led by (((Liebnecht))) and (((Luxemburg))) of the KDP in 1919.

    I have long believed that the majority of the Saudi regime were in bed with Israel, because of their subservience to its wholly owned subsidiaries, the USA, and to a slightly lesser extent Britain. The only Saudi King – Faisal – who actually stood up to them and opposed to Wahhabism, was assassinated. Lyndon LaRouche’s crowd hinted the (((British))) owned Muslim Brotherhood was involved. https://larouchepub.com/eiw/public/1980/eirv07n48-19801210/eirv07n48-19801210_044-middle_east_report.pdf

    The problem with the “15 hijackers” narrative was always that 7 were proven to be alive.
    https://fathersmanifesto.net/terroristsalive.htm
    Does anyone steal identites or falsify passports better than the Israelis?

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Franz
  9. Druid says:

    It was mossad and neocons. Rest is sidestepping bs

    • Replies: @Arnieus
  10. The promotion of a virus very closely resembles the promotion of an idea.

    By controlling the narrative and getting people to panic about their own personal health, institutions like the CFR and authoritarian Globzis, will prevent the widespread truth of Halsey’s report from reaching widespread awareness.

    A short link is in the article. Below are the direct links to the pdfs.
    https://files.wtc7report.org/file/public-download/A-Structural-Reevaluation-of-the-Collapse-of-World-Trade-Center-7-March2020.pdf

    https://ae911truth.org/images/PDFs/Abstract-A-Structural-Reevaluation-of-the-Collapse-of-World-Trade-Center-7.pdf

    • Thanks: Spanky
  11. This article and Giraldi’s most recent article are examples of why the Unz Review is the best source of real information on the Internet.

    • Agree: Assad al-islam
  12. Druid says:

    911 was an inside neocon and mossad job. Anything else is bs !

  13. Better to be a conspiracy realist than a court scholar.

    Better to dig for the hidden truth than swallow the official story.

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
    , @AB_Anonymous
  14. Miro23 says:

    As the global pandemic grips world attention, completely unnoticed by mainstream media was the release of a final report of an academic study pertaining to another previously calamitous event of international significance. On March 25th, the conclusion of a four year investigation by researchers at the University of Alaska Fairbanks was published which determined that the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 on September 11th, 2001 was not caused by fire.

    This is a very important report and video. I’m not an engineer, but it’s quite understandable, and approaches the issue in an even handed way. The video is essential viewing.

  15. Alfred says:

    The whole thing is so obvious to any engineer. Stuff does not fly up and sideways in an office fire without an explosion to propel it – Newton’s Laws of Motion.

    Out of the many thousands of steel framed buildings that have been built over more than 100 years, not a single one crumbled due to a fire. Not one. However, on 9/11, THREE gigantic steel frame buildings collapsed allegedly due to fire.

    Out of the 3000+ deaths, there was only one Israeli victim. That in the financial district of New York.

    “9-11/Israel did it”

    I used to follow Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. I even made a donation. Now, I realised that it was a controlled opposition designed to waste time and divert attention.

    The vast majority of engineers are too scared to raise their voices and point out that the emperor has no clothes. Most of the good engineering jobs have moved out of the USA. That is why getting out the current depression is going to take decades.

    • Agree: Agent76
  16. Wally says:
    @Curmudgeon

    The Reichstag fire was indeed started by Communists, not ‘the Nazis’.

    recommended:
    Fire in the Reichstag, By Peter Wainwright : https://codoh.com/library/document/1986/
    exc.: “When considering the facts, it seems incredible that the myth of Nazi responsibility for firing the Reichstag could ever have been accepted at all. Yet it was, and by reputable historians such as Alan Bullock, author of Hitler: A Study in Tyranny, and Anthony Sutton, author of Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler. One wonders what other mythical versions of historical incidents have been accepted by historians and others “without looking at the evidence.

    The Reichstag Fire – Was It A False Flag ?: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=11254

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  17. derer says:

    A sad and unfortunately truthful description of who is running the American pseudo-democracy. The elected leaders of the apathetic and misinformed “herd of sheep” are reduced to dancing puppets of the world Zionists tune.

  18. gotmituns says:

    World Trade Center hoax – They planted charges through out the elevator shafts of both building (under the guise of normal maintainance) a period of time. Then when the planes hit to create the distraction, they blew up the buildings by remote control. Building #7 as well. A plane was supposed to hit it but that lane went down in PA.

    • Replies: @GeeBee
    , @gay troll
  19. zard says:

    9/11 TRUTH AND FACTS – HIDDEN HISTORY AND JEWISH CRIMINAL POWER REVEALED

    Israelis, including former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, planned and perpetrated the horrors of 9/11. They were assisted by American Jews and some non-Jewish Americans including the President and especially the Vice President of the United States.

    Since the Israeli 9/11 Operation that tricked the American people into wars for

    Israel’s benefit, the U.S. wars and military actions in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Pakistan etc. have cost American taxpayers $5.9 trillion since they began in 2001. That total is almost $2 trillion more than all federal government spending during the recently completed 2017-18 fiscal year. The report, from Watson Institute of International and Public Affairs at Brown University, also finds that more than 480,000 people have died as a direct result of fighting. Over 244,000 civilians have been killed. Another ten million people have been displaced due to violence. The $5.9 trillion figure reflects the cost across the U.S. federal government, since the price of war is ntot borne by the Defense Department alone. http://www.chuckmaultsby.net/index.html

  20. Franz says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Can we stop the “evil Nazis” bullshit?

    Personally I won’t even tolerate “evil commies” anymore. Canned and freeze dried enemies, opened and displayed when needed to cover our plutocrats’ own behavior.

    Both fascism and communism (as in Warsaw Pact) were capable of reforming themselves, and even making fundamental alterations. Note Russia after Putin booted the looters out. Of all systems, only the ones the USA and the rest of the West seem stuck with the most evil and irredeemable.

    The truly rottenest regimes are those hopelessly static and incapable of seeing how stuck they are. We’ve been using “nazi” and “commie” the same way for nearly a century, unaware the world has moved on.

  21. Spanky says:
    @anon

    Wait… What is that I hear?

    Sounds like Allen Dulles (is still) playing his mighty Wurlitzer.

  22. This and so many other problems today are moral problems. That is, immoral people in high places, who are making selfish decisions, are causing disastrous problems for many others.
    A political solution would not be the answer, for all that it would do would be to replace one immoral person with another one.
    Moral people are needed in high places. The pool of citizens from which they would come also must be moral.
    How could immoral people become moral? There is only one way. Only the God of the Bible has given a way to do it. Indeed, cannibals and head hunters have become moral through the powerful gospel words in the Bible. Hence America and the rest of the world would need to be re-christianized. Only then would Heaven bless us with peace.

    Gene Urtel – The Rivertown Press

  23. Anonymous[661] • Disclaimer says:

    Today’s two leading articles are the best so far this year.

  24. lavoisier says: • Website

    Today, the ongoing COVID-19 crisis appears likely to have similar broad and long-term political, social and economic consequences and those who have doubts about the official explanation for the pandemic can hardly be blamed for their distrust given this history unless the lessons of 9/11 have gone unlearned.

    Indeed. There is little or no reason to trust the US government or the controlled media on anything.

    • Agree: Miro23, derer
  25. COVID ISRAEL BOEING UN-INTERUPTABLE AUTOPILOT & 911 – INTERVIEW FLIGHT CAPTAIN DAN HANLEY 1
    https://www.bitchute.com/video/NrqYwI6wA8cl/

  26. Tom says:

    “With the exception of the Kennedy assassination — coincidentally
    the subject of a new epic chart-topping song by Bob Dylan”…

    Dylan’s song, Murder Most Foul has very clever lyrics. The 17-minute” epic” is constituted mainly of the JFK assassination interspersed nicely with all-genre music lyrics, titles, and artists of the past six-odd decades. But Dylan seems to lament America’s Great Decline based upon the machinations of the CIA and the Deep State involving the assassinations during the ‘60s, while completely ignoring much bigger reasons: Political Correctness and Minority and Sexual Preferences (Critical Theory Marxism) The State Poet Laureate pens it cleverly here decades after others have risked the rope of ridicule on this subject. A most orthodox poet, after all.

    • Replies: @Max Parry
  27. Ponderer says:

    Let’s say you contract with Joe’s civil engineering company to work on your new multi-story building. Joe will remind you that buildings do not last forever, and that you could add value today to potential future buyers of your building by planning for obsolescence and demolition in the initial plans. For a little extra money, Joe will agree to design and print a few sheets that you could give to demolition experts to remove your building safely and efficiently. These Demolition Details would pin-point the spacial coordinates and orientation of the cutting charges that would someday cut the structural steel elements. For a little extra money, Joe would specify how to locate and build pockets inside the concrete for the placement of the charges, thus avoiding the expense of hammering away the concrete later. To add more value to your design, Joe could produce circuit diagrams that would show how to pre-install the demolition wiring. Seeing the value in planned demolition, you take it one step further, and provide the Demolition Detail sheets to a building subcontractor that actually specs out and installs the entire demolition design, such that, on demolition day, the future owners only need to place the explosive charges in the pre-installed pockets, hook up the pre-installed wiring, connect a control console at a safe distance to the main wiring bus harness, and then just press the button.
    All this seems logical from an investment and building life-cycle perspective. However, those Demolition Plans must be kept secure. Should some unsavory character ever get their own copy of your Demolition Plans for your building, well, they could easily bring it down before its time.

    Could Demolition Plans have existed for the World Trade Centers? And were they implemented during construction? If they had, it would have been relatively easy for a “cleaning crew” to install the charges before September 11, 2001. We may never know the truth of that.

    BUT! We can ask, here and now, do Demolition Plans and their implementations exist in other buildings now standing? The task would be to inspect any building for such evidence. If such evidence were found, then we might have the basis to work backwards.

    Even the US Space Shuttles had demolition design and implementations within their air frames. This was used in case the shuttles ever posed a threat to life and property during a launch. In buildings, a demolition design could be simply justified to lower the end-of-life costs in demolition and salvage.

    Think about it.

    • Replies: @skrik
    , @Dube
    , @sarz
    , @Geowhizz
  28. @anonymous

    Retired CIA pilot disputes the very existence of aircraft in NYC on that infamous day:
    https://newspunch.com/cia-pilot-presents-evidence-that-no-planes-hit-towers-on-911/

    “A Boeing 767 is 156 feet wide. The width of the hole in the South Tower was 106 feet wide and the width of the hole in the North Tower was 125 feet wide. 50 feet of the Boeing 767 that allegedly struck the South Tower cannot fit into the size of the hole that is in the North Tower…a hole that was supposedly created by a Boeing 767 with a wingspan of 156 feet. 31 feet of the Boeing 767 that is said to have hit the North Tower cannot fit into the size of the hole that is in the North Tower…a hole that was supposedly created by a Boeing 767 with a wingspan of 156 feet. Some people may say that the wings of the Boeings merely folded back as the aluminum portion of the wings came in contact with the exterior steel columns. However we can see this is not what happens in the videos. Even so the aluminum wings would not neatly fold back, they would be torn off.”

    Please excuse me while I go back to Keeping Up With the Whitetrashians.

  29. skrik says:
    @Ponderer

    Could Demolition Plans have existed for the World Trade Centers

    Not needed at all. For putative proof, try asking Dr. Judy Woods (DEW) or D. A. Khalezov (911tholgy=nukes.) rgds

  30. 911 was done by Israel and the zionists in control of the ZUS government to give the zionists in the ZUS government the excuse to destroy the middle east for Israel by blaming the Arabs for the WTC and pentagram attack.

    To see how it was done, go to drjudywood.com and wheredidthetowersgo.com.

    • Replies: @skrik
  31. The cabal got their agent in the Whitehouse to bomb Serbia in favor Muslims while the hapless Christian Europe looked on …

  32. Saggy says: • Website

    Another idiotic article on 9/11. The truthers are useful idiots for the TPTB because they focus exclusively on the attack itself, and not on who perpetrated the attack. The buildings came down, that’s for sure, now, the crucial question is who did it, not the particulars of the mechanism used to bring them down. As to who did it, the truthers have absolutely no evidence of anything and also no inclination to investigate that question beyond making absurd allegations.

    • Disagree: thotmonger
    • Replies: @skrik
    , @Jon Baptist
  33. skrik says:
    @Saggy

    As to who did it, the truthers have absolutely no evidence of anything

    Not nice, Saggy. 1st, you say “truther” and I say “truster,” OK? Then, ‘whodunnit’ is perfectly clear = those with privileged access + required ‘talent’ + technology. Now you work it out. If you need any extra help, think modus operandi [tip: USS Liberty] + cui bono?

  34. 9/11 was an inside job with Mossad help.

    “Bob Dylan” is an authorized logo for Robert Zimmermann Enterprises, Inc., and has been since 1960.

  35. nsa says:

    The “truth” is whatever the TV box says it is. Pics of the initial 20′ diameter hole in the Pentagon facade are still available on the internet. The official story is that a low flying Boeing 757 created the 20′ diameter hole. Since the wings, turbines, fin, stabilizers, elevators, and rudder could not have fit through the 20′ hole……what happened to them?

    • Replies: @Desert Fox
  36. Anonymous[247] • Disclaimer says:
    @Adam Smith

    Right. Christopher Bollyn has provided overwhelmingly persuasive evidence of Israel and its fifth column’s commission of 9/11 and subsequent cover up in the courts and mainstream media. Silverstein’s comment alone proves that a decision was made to demo WTC 7. Now we await the second installment of Whitney Webb’s exposé linking the same Jewish 9/11 actors to their part imposing a similarly disproportionate repression of our rights using COVID-19 as the cover story. COVID-19 also conveniently covers that same fifth column’s responsibility for the collapse of the international banking system in the way the 9/11 missile hitting the accounting department in the Pentagon ended investigation of the missing trillions almost certainly diverted to Israel. The evidence implicating Israel and its fifth column in JFK/RFK, the USS Liberty, and 9/11 has now reached the status of conspiracy-in-fact and not “mere” theory among a tipping point of Americans, requiring the elimination of any possible retribution on the part of the United States. Congress, however, will no more investigate Israel and its fifth column than stop funding the incineration of tens of thousands of innocent Arabs to serve Israel even at the cost of destroying the United States.

    The transformation you mention is not only going to be a long one, but a permanent one, I’d say, given its present trajectory. It’s as if the Dancing Israelis were put in charge of our intel services—wait, they are already. So, given the announcement that “there’ll be no going back” and that the “new normal” will consist of rolling lockdowns; social distancing; mandatory vaccination with adjuvants causing sterility and diminished cognitive function (despite frantic denials); permission papers for so much as leaving the house; and propaganda making it clear flunkies in blue have will enforce abrogation of the Constitution like panting rapists, it follows the only reasonably conclusion is this is equivalent to announcing imposition of a police state. America’s sovereignty, in turn, won’t be ceded by formal announcement, but in particular treaties ceding sovereignty piecemeal to transnational compliance regimes organized under WHO and military repression implemented by UN “peacekeepers” answerable to Gates and his ilk—or at least that was the plan. How convenient that, because the cut in our standard of living by about a half was inevitable and is baked into the response, any peaceable assembly or meetings to oppose our enslavement will be prohibited as public health measures. It cannot possibly get any more Orwellian than that and yet here we are. The pistol ranges in the basements of police stations around the country must be booked full time by now.

    • Replies: @Just another serf
  37. skrik says:
    @Desert Fox

    911 was done by Israel and the zionists in control of the ZUS government

    No argument, but only up to your DEW-point; not.

    1. No DEW.

    2. No nukes.

    3. No planes, worse:

    4. No justice, and possibly worst:

    5. No Newton. [Wha-a-at? Well, Newton claimed ‘for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction,’ but our ‘rulers’ rage-on unopposed = no countervailing force.]

    Q: Where are the supposedly many more numerous countervailing ‘white hats?’

    A: No sign. rgds

  38. vot tak says:

    This is a very informative and well reasoned article. Very glad I took the time to read it.

    “Political scientist Michael Parenti, who drew the ire of many of his fellow left-wing colleagues for his work on the Kennedy assassination, refers to it in his lecture “Understanding Deep Politics” as a perceived incompatibility between “the structural and the functional.” The anti-conspiracists wrongly assume that the more impersonal or wider the lens, the more profound an analysis.”

    I have not seen many discuss this important distinction in analysing history and current events. Good to see Parry bring it up.

    &

    “This applies not only to mainstream media and academics, but even leading progressive figures who have a mechanical, unthinking resistance to assigning intent or recognizing the existence of hidden agendas. As a result, it disappears the class interests of the ruling elite and ultimately assists them in providing cover for their crimes…Just as they assailed Parenti, David Talbot and others for challenging the Warren Commission’s ‘lone gunman’ theory, leading figures on the left such as Noam Chomsky and the late Alexander Cockburn railed against the 9/11 Truth movement and today it is often wrongly equated with right-wing politics, an unlikely trajectory given it occurred under an arch-conservative administration but an inevitable result of the pseudo-left’s aversion to “conspiracies.” If polls are any indication, the average American certainly disagrees with such elitist misleaders as to the believability of the sham 9/11 Commission findings, yet another example of how out-of-touch the faux-left is with ordinary people.”

    I appreciate how Parry describes these people as “psuedo-left” and “faux-left”, that is what these people are. Covert gatekeepers for the oligarchy.

  39. Agent76 says:

    Jan 24, 2020 ‘Million-man march’ against US presence in Baghdad

    Protesters are taking to the streets of Baghdad on Friday, January 24 for a ‘million-man march‘ to call for an end to the United States military presence in Iraq.

    Sep 22, 2012 Who Benefited From 9/11?

    9/11 revisited – There exists overwhelming evidence – video, audio, professional witness, and scientific – that the unfathomably bizarre 19-hijacker conspiracy theory was back then, and still is, impossible to believe.

    DECEMBER 12, 2017 TERRORISM BEFORE AND DURING THE WAR ON TERROR: A LOOK AT THE NUMBERS

    When a Special Forces mission prompts a U.S. senator to exclaim that he has no fewer than “100 questions” the Pentagon could not answer, you know you have someone’s attention.

    https://warontherocks.com/2017/12/terrorism-war-terror-look-numbers/

    • Thanks: Spanky
  40. @nsa

    To hear the truth about the pentagram explosion, go to youtube and enter April Gallop, she was working at the pentagram on 911 in the area of the prewired explosion and walked out through the hole and saw no sign of planes or missiles!

    • Agree: Agent76
  41. @Anonymous

    COVID-19 also conveniently covers that same fifth column’s responsibility for the collapse of the international banking system in the way the 9/11 missile hitting the accounting department in the Pentagon ended investigation of the missing trillions almost certainly diverted to Israel.

    Yup.

    But I’m confident they’ll share all these trillions in looted wealth with the little people as things get really horribly bad. I mean, what are they going to do with all that money?

  42. Poco says:

    Something to keep in mind and the difficulties in determining the enemy. Poor Smedley Butler exposed the business plot. The fdr character he “saves” turns around and provokes American entry into WW II. He may have been better off sticking with the plotters.

    • Replies: @profnasty
  43. @Priss Factor

    Better to be a conspiracy realist

    A good term. I have openly admited to being a conspiracy theorist. The context is that conspiracies exist, correctly identifying them is the problem. Conspiracy realist fits that context better, I think.

  44. @Wally

    Thanks for the link.
    A.J.P Taylor lost his position at Oxford for being honest, or at least balanced, about WWII.

    This site isn’t updated frequently, but there are many interesting books and articles from NSDAP contemporary observers:
    https://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archivesindex.html

  45. Agent76 says:

    Sept 11, 2018 WTC Towers Brought by Controlled Demolition: Richard Gage

    Richard Gage AIA is founder of Architects and for 9/11Truth. AE911 Truth is a non-profit organization of architects, engineers, and affiliates dedicated to investigating the events of September 11, 2001.

    Sep 5, 2016 9/11 Suspects: Rudy Giuliani

    Mayor Giuliani oversaw the illegal destruction of the 9/11 crime scene and is criminally liable for the deaths of hundreds of emergency workers for not passing on prior warnings about the collapses of the Twin Towers.

    Sep 21, 2013 30-Second Reel of Building 7 Collapse Footage

    World Trade Center Building 7 5:20pm, September 11, 2001.

  46. Max Parry says:
    @Tom

    Sounds like somebody has read the New Dark Age by Michael Minnicino, but I’m glad you at least cited ‘critical theory Marxism’ instead of actual Marxism, which the former has little to nothing to do with.

    • Replies: @Tom
  47. WTC 7 is the smokiest gun in history.

    • Agree: Agent76
  48. Arnieus says:
    @Druid

    Means, motive and opportunity.

  49. Tom says:
    @Max Parry

    Thanks for this story. It made it all much clearer. I kind of thought that’s what it was.
    I guess 9/11=The Surveillance State / Covid-19 = The Health Police State.
    The game is up. Up against the wall. Everybody.
    Right now I just want to watch reruns of I Dream of Jennie.
    and have something salty from a cellophane bag.

  50. GeeBee says:
    @gotmituns

    ‘A plane was supposed to hit it but that plane went down in PA’

    I’d actually never thought of that. Thanks.

    • Replies: @Just Passing Through
  51. @Saggy

    Why are you injecting a poison pill here knocking this article as idiotic? You are not their target audience, Saggy. They are trying to get through to architects and engineers.
    Speaking of useful idiots, what about you. I’ve read your website. I know about all the links you have posted.

    antisemitism101.com has a great collection of information. Definitely great work. However, is James Corbett any different than A&E for 911 Truth? Did he get into the details of the Jewish Diaspora massive push to get the U.S. into WW!? No. Corbett made a great video about WW1 even though he left out a massive part of the cause.

    What about your belief in the general narrative for COVID-19. “[F}ear porn or reality …. I think reality.” Your words. The book ‘Left Wings Over Europe or, How to Make a War About Nothing’ by Percy Wyndham Lewis is referenced on antisemitism101.com. Are you that oblivious that they are orchestrating a new war and a new tyranny using the Coronavirus as the premise? The Globzis and self-chosen supremacists are making war out of nothing. DO YOU NOT SEE THAT? ARE YOU THAT BLIND?

    Why do you believe the same narrative as Bill Gates and the CFR?
    https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/
    https://swprs.org/the-american-empire-and-its-media/

    Why is the entire world media blocking Hulsey’s Report but indoctrinating everyone with COVID-19 and Greta’s Climate Change to boot. Maybe you’re the actual infiltrator since you believe in the common narrative.

    Here is news for you genius… There will be infiltrators and controlled opposition. They want to destroy dissent from every angle. We will never be able to successfully isolate them. They have world governments and Jewish Power behind them. The key is to still hold firm and fight the indoctrination as best we can. Our best hope is to dissect the information using our God-gifted abilities to think and pass it on privately to our kids and loved ones.
    https://swprs.org/the-american-empire-and-its-media/

    • Replies: @Saggy
  52. @GeeBee

    Pretty sure that plane was heading for D.C.

    WTC7 seems like a non-target anyway, why would they go for that building when they could go for the Empire State instead? Although the official narrative is that Flight 93 was headed for the Capitol building.

  53. Good post but the author forgot one thing regarding Israel’s relationship with King Saud–the Saudis and Wahabbis in general are DONMEH–Sabbatean Jews who bogusly converted to Islam to hide their Jewishness. Same with Kamal Attaturk and all Turkish leaders with the only exception being the present one, Erdogan (unless he is as well….)

    • Thanks: Max Parry
    • Replies: @Max Parry
  54. derer says:

    In the portrayal of the 9/11 grandiose event some mistakes were made but one glaring error was made in the fake video of the second plane sliding into the tower as if that tower was made out of butter. A plane wings have obviously much lesser strength then the steel tower.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @Sam J.
  55. Max Parry says:
    @Omegabooks

    Yeah Wayne Madsen wrote a great article about that for Strategic Culture Foundation. The book he cites, “Confessions of a British Spy” is an interesting read, though its authenticity is still in dispute.

  56. I was an FAA Commercial pilot, living in Mountain View, California, on the day of 9/11. I knew on that day, as a pilot, that the official story was a lie. I know tall buildings, I’ve jumped off many of them. Back in 1986, I jumped off of the 86th floor of the Empire State Building with a parachute and landed on 5th avenue. I studied the structure and security of the twin towers during the weeks after that jump. The 9/11 story is the greatest hoax of the 21st century. The current Corona virus crime likely comes from the same criminal entity. It’s not what they are doing, whoever they are, but what are we doing to stop them, permanently. I have a plan. It’s called The McCarthy Plan. Let’s get organized. Investigate 9/11.

  57. Saggy says: • Website
    @Jon Baptist

    They are trying to get through to architects and engineers.

    Er, I am a PhD engineer.

    antisemitism101.com has a great collection of information. Definitely great work.

    Now we’re getting somewhere.

    What about your belief in the general narrative for COVID-19. “[F}ear porn or reality …. I think reality.” Your words.

    Correct.

    The book ‘Left Wings Over Europe or, How to Make a War About Nothing’ by Percy Wyndham Lewis is referenced on antisemitism101.com.

    Right again.

    Are you that oblivious that they are orchestrating a new war and a new tyranny using the Coronavirus as the premise? The Globzis and self-chosen supremacists are making war out of nothing. DO YOU NOT SEE THAT? ARE YOU THAT BLIND?

    Did you read the quotes from ‘Left Wings ….’? Apparently not – the book is not a bunch of idiotic speculations …. it is a recounting of documented events ….

    Here is news for you genius… There will be infiltrators and controlled opposition

    Right again. At the same time, there is never any shortage of complete idiots. The 9/11 truthers are just a diversion from the reality of the consequences of US foreign policy. They discredit dissent.

    Incidentally, I gave a quick dissection of the 9/11 idiocy here …. https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=12383

    • Replies: @Jon Baptist
  58. The Official 9/11 Conspiracy Theory pushed by the Kosher Deep State and the Corporate Media is the most ridiculous conspiracy theory of them all. 19 Muslim hijackers with box cutters and one CIA Jihadi on dialysis in an Afghan cave over came the Trillion dollar USA defense and intelligence national security apparatus and took down the WTC and the Pentagon? It absurd on its face. Totally impossible.
    For the mission to succeed there had to be DOZENS of simultaneous failures of standard operating procedure before, during, and after the attack across multiple agencies. When presented with the plan professional terrorists would have laughed. They wouldn’t waste their lives and their martyrdom on such a ridiculous plot. Unless of course they knew before hand that standard operating procures was going to be thrown out the window (as well as the Laws of Physics) and all obstacles cleared from their path. Ergo 9/11 had to be an Inside Job. If it was an Inside Job the ONLY possible participants judging from just the Official Narrative were the US Deep State, Mossad, and the Kingdom of Suadi Arabia.

  59. Mind-blowing! Thank you Max Parry for pulling all that together. I think I believe it all, though I thought I saw a few little holes in it so remain slightly undecided.

    • Replies: @Max Parry
  60. Ever since, the ideologies of Saudi Wahhabism and Israeli Zionism have been center to the West’s destabilization of the Middle East which contrary to misperceptions was not uniquely plagued by conflict historically more than the Occident until the West nurtured Salafism and Zionism.

    The West had an ongoing plan to destablise the Middle East that pre-dates Sykes-Picot, Balfour, and WWI.

    It was discussed in the open, and at the highest levels, even though the planned betrayal of the region – co-authored by Sykes and Georges-Picot – was conducted and ratified in secret, and remained so until the Soviets revealed it to the world in November 1917.

    There is a quotation from an obscure academic tome that I always refer to, in order to help people see that the Western plot to create and sustain instability in the Middle East pre-dates Sykes-Picot and Balfour.

    It goes as follows:

    “”What we want is not a united Arabia, but a weak and disunited Arabia, split into little principalities as far as possible under our suzerainty — but incapable of coordinated action against us, forming a buffer against the Powers in the West.” Crewe to Hardinge, 12 November 1914, Archives of India (quoted in Busch, Britain, India and the Arabs p62 [1971])

    Crewe and Hardinge were not nobodies; they were the UK government’s Secretary for the Colonies and Viceroy of India, respectively. They were intimately involved in formulating policy regarding the region.

    Note that when they talk about ‘a buffer against the Powers in the West‘, they are talking about the Ottoman Empire, which lay to the west of India – the “Middle East” is between modern Turkey and India, roughly speaking; in 1914 the Ottoman Empire extended to the Gulf through its holding of what became Iraq after Sykes and Georges-Picot’s clandestine plot was put in place, betraying the deal that T.E. Lawrence had struck with the Arabs in exchange for their participation (the Arab Revolt).

    Anyhow… that excerpt makes clear that Western interference in the Arab world has been a matter of policy for over a century (which is a partial answer to “Why do they hate us?“).

    .

    Note the date: 12 November 1914 was a week after the UK and France declared war on the Ottomans – after the Ottomans inexplicably let a German admiral use its ships to attack Russia in the “Black Sea Raid” which led Russia declaring war on Nov 1. The UK and France declared war on the 5th; they were in position to attack Fao by the 6th (with an entire Brigade) and took Basra on the 22nd.

    On a side note: James Barr’s “A Line In The Sand: Britain, France and the Struggle that Shaped the Middle East” is a book well worth reading, but starts after the Crewe-Hardinge exchange.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  61. @Kratoklastes

    The West had an ongoing plan

    FFS …

    The West has an ongoing plan

  62. Max Parry says:
    @Ann Nonny Mouse

    Thank you for reading, I wrestled with it myself for years until the 28 pages were released. I leave speculation about the collapse of the buildings to the experts as I’m no civil engineer, but when two foreign officials close to and in regular contact with the Bush administration are caught directly financing the operation, there’s more to the story.

    • Agree: Ann Nonny Mouse
    • Replies: @Sam J.
  63. @Saggy

    I am a PhD engineer

    Good for you, Doc. Since you think that SPECULATING is idiotic, I sure hope you don’t go straight into constructing/fabricating while discounting all SPECULATIONS for possible failures.

    Did you read the quotes from ‘Left Wings …it is a recounting of documented events.

    Of course.

    I have also read many http://www.carrollquigley.net/books.htm and the following articles.
    https://www.unz.com/proberts/what-are-fauci-gates-up-to/
    https://www.henryakissinger.com/articles/the-coronavirus-pandemic-will-forever-alter-the-world-order/
    https://www.unz.com/pbuchanan/kissingers-call-for-a-new-world-order/
    https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/henry-kissinger-calls-for-a-new-post-covid-world-order/

    “We need to develop new techniques and technologies for infection control and commensurate vaccines across large populations.” H. Kissinger

    B.T.W. Kissinger’s employee is Vice-Chair for the CFR.
    https://www.cfr.org/experts/jami-miscik
    Vice Chairman
    Jami Miscik
    CEO and Vice Chairman, Kissinger Associates

  64. gay troll says:
    @gotmituns

    Exactly. Unlike building 7, which had conventional steel framing, towers 1 and 2 were supported by massive central columns, hidden behind a mostly non weight bearing facade. When the bases of the twin towers were cut, the central columns went into free fall behind the facade, creating the illusion of top-down collapse known as pancake theory.

    I do believe the twin towers, which were built by David Rockefeller, were literally designed for the false flag attack they starred in.

    • Replies: @Sam J.
  65. FB says: • Website
    @derer

    I see this nonsensical objection all the time…I guess you think a 200 ton object moving at 500 miles per hour is just supposed to bounce off a building if it’s made of steel…?

    Physical reality doesn’t work like that…

    Take an aluminum baseball bat to a steel coat hanger or even a steel pipe, and see which one gets busted up…

    A bird ingested into an airplane engine will bust up the titanium fan and compressor blades and destroy an engine made of the strongest alloys in engineering…

    That same bird hitting the airplane on the nose will destroy the front of the airplane…go and look up some pictures of bird strikes in aviation…plenty of aircraft have been destroyed by a lousy little feathered bird…

    Also, an aircraft is not like a coke can…it’s made of special high strength alloys that are as strong as steel…the structural components are massive, like the wing spars, which are designed to carry four times the aircraft weight…that’s 800 tons…such a massive structure moving at 500 mph is going to easily penetrate the lattice like steel shell of the WTC buildings…

    So there is nothing ‘fake’ about that video…hundreds of people saw the second plane go in…

    What’s fake is the idea that the small resulting fires brought those buildings down…many other aspects of the official story are totally fantastic…but a large airplane penetrating the building is not…

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @skrik
    , @Derer
  66. Ben Norton is not left wing. He is an apologist for the Deep State, like most of what is called today the left. What passes for left today has no relationship to “peace and bread.” The left regards the working class as “the Trump Deplorables,” and endorses war as a way to bring human rights. Diana Johnstone’s book, Circle in the Darkness, which I recently reviewed, describes the collapse of a formerly meaningful left into apologists for elite agendas.

    • Agree: Max Parry, Sam J., FB
    • Replies: @Max Parry
  67. Max Parry says:
    @Paul Craig Roberts

    Touché! I agree about Johnstone’s book and your assessment of today’s left, though I can’t say I’ve ever seen Norton endorse humanitarian intervention.

    • Replies: @KA
  68. Iris says:
    @FB

    I see this nonsensical objection all the time…I see this nonsensical objection all the time…I guess you think a 200 ton object moving at 500 miles per hour is just supposed to bounce off a building if it’s made of steel…?

    Speed is speed, no matter the direction, vertical or horizontal.

    By your same very flawed logic, a plane crashing at 500 m/h vertically from the sky onto natural ground (which except for rocks is always softer than a steel façade) should also dive deep inside the soil and disappear, as did the miraculous WTC “planes” inside the Twin Towers.

    In the REAL life however, such miracle never happened, neither before nor after 9/11. Planes crashes always result in a shallow crater absorbing the momentum and shattering the plane outwards, not in the crashed plane making its way inside the ground, unhindered like a fretting worm.

    Please stop this nonsense; it is an insult to basic common sense.

    • Replies: @FB
  69. IvyMike says:

    Now somebody has to do an engineering study showing how to prepare a building for controlled demolition with nobody noticing. Science is not asking questions, it is doing the research to answer questions.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Sam J.
  70. Sam J. says:
    @gay troll

    “…towers 1 and 2 were supported by massive central columns, hidden behind a mostly non weight bearing facade…”

    That’s not true even remotely. The outer columns were designed to withstand 2000% of the standard load on the building. This high loading was because of wind loads which are far higher than the loads just to hold the building up.

    It’s more accurate to think of the building as a strong central core with a strong exterior with large uninterrupted space between them.

    http://www.911myths.com/drg_nist_review_1_1.pdf
    page 11.

    “…Engineering News Record from 1964, claiming that the Towers were designed to withstand incredible damage: [T]hese reports said that “live loads on these [perimeter] columns can be increased more than 2000% before failure occurs” and that “one could cut away all of the first-story columns on one side of the building, and part way from the corners of the perpendicular sides, and the building
    could still withstand design live loads and a 100-mph wind force from any direction.”[27]…”

    Here’s an astoundingly good short video by a mechanical engineer on the other buildings. It probably one of the best I’ve seen. It’s very to the point and sticks to the facts as can be seen. “Gordon Ross investigation into WTC collapse”

    • Replies: @Miro23
  71. Sam J. says:
    @derer

    “…A plane wings have obviously much lesser strength then the steel tower…”

    So does plastic but here’s a picture of an aluminum plate hit by a plastic pellet.

    “…This is what happens when you fire a 7g (0.25 oz) projectile at a velocity of 25,000 km/h (16,000 mph) into a cast aluminum block. This huge hole has been made by something weighing about as much as an iron nail! Even if something is that tiny, if it’s traveling at very high speed it will have enough kinetic energy to do a lot of damage…”

    https://www.explainthatstuff.com/bullets.html

    Another good example is ground walnut hulls for sandblasting or water-jets that cut steel with super fast high pressure water jets. Water is hardly as strong as steel.

    • Agree: FB
    • Replies: @Karel
    , @Derer
  72. Sam J. says:
    @Max Parry

    “… I leave speculation about the collapse of the buildings to the experts as I’m no civil engineer…”

    You don’t have to speculate or be an engineer for building 7. On 9-11 building #7 fell the same speed as a rock dropped beside it in free air for roughly 108 feet. This means the building had no resistance to falling except air.

    All materials fall the same speed in a gravity field disregarding air friction which I don’t thing we need to worry about for a building falling. So the speed of our imaginary rock falling next to the building is just gravity related. The speed of the buildings falling, the exact same as the rock, is just gravity also. This means that there was NOTHING to slow the fall of the building. The density of the material under the imaginary rock falling was air. The building fell the same therefore the density of the material under the building was also air. We know this is not true. Building #7 was not hovering in the air.

    It’s makes NO difference how big the fires were. The buildings density never reached the same value as air! The fires did not boil away the building structure where they were light as air! All the talk about damage, fires, this, that, all bullshit because the building fell with all four corners almost level the same speed as a rock in AIR. If a building falls as fast as a rock and the rock is falling through JUST AIR then the building is falling through JUST AIR also. Simple equivalence. 1=1, 2=2, big rock falling in air=small rock falling in air=building falling in air. One problem is people sometimes believe that a really heavy thing will fall faster than a lighter thing. Not true. Look at this video of the Apollo astronaut dropping a feather and a hammer on the Moon. They land at the same time.

    Here’s a video of reporters going into building #7 AFTER the North tower supposedly fell on it and destroyed it sufficiently enough for it to collapse completely. Look at :54 you see the #7 for the building on the door.

    Now you’ve seen video of the inside where there is NO massive damage to make all four sides of the building fall. You want pictures of the back? Here’s a picture of the South side of building #7, facing the North tower, after it had fallen. There is no huge gaping hole. There is no massive fire going all the way up the building. So you can’t say it’s the South side and we have plenty of video and pictures of the North side of building #7 pictures with no damage at all.

    Here’ another NIST FOIA released video taken between one and two hours before building #7 fell. There’s around three floors on fire.

    (Watch the reporter pan up at 2:54. You can clearly see the whole building is not on fire. This side shown is the North side of building #7. Later you can see the fires mostly around three or four floors only and in isolated spots.)
    If the fires were hot enough to melt steel then why isn’t the glass in the windows melted? Glass melts at an extremely lower temperature that steel. Ever put a metal can and a glass bottle in a campfire? The glass bottle melts but the steel can will still be intact. These fires were no hotter than a campfire. One last video of all sides from 23 angles also showing the miraculous collapse.

    Fireman retired so now he can talk. He was right next to the damn building. Says,”…there was an explosion and the building came down…”

    Here’s an astoundingly good short video by a mechanical engineer on the other buildings. It probably one of the best I’ve seen. It’s very to the point and sticks to the facts as can be seen.

    For more info look at a site by some engineers that lay out the evidence.

    http://www.ae911truth.org/

    The facts are irrefutable that certain sections of our security in this country are compromised and are actively killing our citizens.(Oh and by the way it’s the Jews that did it).

    • Replies: @Max Parry
  73. Descent article. Don’t understand the bashing of Norton. I haven’t studied him too deep, but from what I’ve read from him, he’s pretty descent. The grayzone has done good work on Russiagate, Syria, Ukraine and Latin America. Would be interested in hearing why PCR calls him an apologist for the deep state, I haven’t read anything from him to go that far.

    Everyone has their blind spots I suppose. Maybe Norton hasn’t looked into 9/11? I’m sure if he did he would see it for what it is.

    Chomsky is a different story. I think he just wants to keep his spot in “the club”. Probably avoids these topics to keep his acceptance with the media.

    You’re never going to agree with everything anyone says. If you do, theres probably something wrong with you. I like to read everyones take, then make my own decision about whats true, and whats BS. I can agree with the alt-right on some things, the commies on certain things, but I have yet to find any one person, group or ideology I agree 100% with everything. I see no reason to “cancel” that person or disregard everything they say because I disagree with them on certain things.

    9/11 was a huge conspiracy, lots of actors involved. Trying to pin it on a single group like “the Jews” is ridiculous. Obviously our own military, NY officials and police, intel agencies, media were all involved. So who do all of them ultimately serve? $$$$$$. The empire, the petrodollar that sustains it. What is the empire? Basically stealing resources from folks that can’t defend themselves, stealing their labor. Its imperialism/capitalism. Yes, Israel was involved, who created Israel? For what purpose? The timing makes it pretty obvious.

    Anyhoo, anyone who watches the video of the towers exploding, and WTC7 “collapsing” will either see that it was blown up, or they will block it out and believe the official story. Its pretty difficult to believe that our “leaders” could do that to their own citizens, and I can understand why some people would want to avoid thinking about it, its a tough pill to swallow.

    • Thanks: FB
  74. Max Parry says:
    @Sam J.

    Fun fact: The mysterious Secret Service guy in the hazmat suit, who identifies himself as “William Bennette”, later was busted stealing a bunch of salvaged cars from Ground Zero.

    https://nypost.com/2004/04/14/911-hot-wheels-fed-worker-stole-cars-at-wtc-site/

  75. Iris says:
    @IvyMike

    Now somebody has to do an engineering study showing how to prepare a building for controlled demolition with nobody noticing

    There is no need for an engineering study: nuclear demolition is an obsolete technique.

    Nuclear demolition, as a form of “controlled demolition”, was first mooted towards the end of the 1960s when building code requirements made it necessary to provide satisfactory proposals for the eventual demolition of proposed modern tall steel frame buildings.

    From Wikispooks.

  76. Dube says:
    @Ponderer

    Seeing the value in planned demolition, … take it one step further, and provide the Demolition Detail sheets to a building subcontractor that actually specs out and installs the entire demolition design, such that, on demolition day, the future owners only need to place the explosive charges in the pre-installed pockets, hook up the pre-installed wiring, connect a control console at a safe distance to the main wiring bus harness, and then just press the button. … In buildings, a demolition design could be simply justified to lower the end-of-life costs in demolition and salvage.

    Thank you, Ponderer. Your entire comment is well stated, evidently from pertinent experience, and worth careful reading and distribution.

    With apologies for imprecision I recall reports of statements by someone related to the WTC architect – his son, I think – insisting that there certainly were pre-installed pockets and other features to facilitate an eventual demolition. Indeed anyone having experience with building structures knows that what goes up must eventually come down. I also recall the suggestion that with the leading real estate experience in that quarter of Manhattan especially, of course the neighbors would insist that for approval the plans would have to include an agreed method for inevitable and safe removal. One might check into the Codes for confirmation.

  77. Rugs? Seriously.

    The NIST notes that rugs were a significant factor for the fires in the Twin Towers and WTC 7. I’m struggling to recall ever seen rugs in a commercial office building. Carpeting yes, but never rugs. Is that an East coast thing? Or are they using the term rugs when they mean carpet?

    • Replies: @Dube
  78. Sam J. says:
    @IvyMike

    “…Now somebody has to do an engineering study showing how to prepare a building for controlled demolition with nobody noticing…”

    We don’t need all that although it would be nice to have any sort of real investigation. We can use common sense and things that were seen.

    Susan Lindauer who worked for the CIA as a liaison to Saddam Hussein and was jailed for the rest of Bushes term after she complained to Congress about there being LOTS of notice that 9-11 was happening said that she was told that there was video of vans moving into the WTC every night after the cleaning crew went home.

    https://agrdailynews.com/tag/etc/

    First watch this video analyzing the collapse.

    We know that molten metal was pouring out of the buildings, there was a great deal of molten metal in the debris, there is such a thing as nano-thermite and it was found in the dust after 9-11.

    So how could it be done. The main columns in the middle are easy to explain. A large amount of elevator work was being done and at that time the center columns could have been wired with radio controlled explosives.

    As for the outer columns that’s no so hard either. All these building have a metal grid with ceiling tiles. To remove these you just push them up. So a guy with a cart with wheels, a ladder and a pre-prepared thermite and explosive package could rapidly raise the tile, scrap off the fire proofing with a scraper and put a battery powered, radio controlled package with magnets to hold them in place onto the columns. I saw a demo expert and he said that a couple vans worth of explosives with about two weeks worth of work could have done it. So it could easily be done and I’ve just told you one way it could have been done.

    It may not be but many of these suppositions that we need this or that data is nothing but a attempt to put task of one sort or another before we can come to any conclusion but in this case there’s no need. A building that falls with no support but air doesn’t need an engineering study.

  79. KA says:
    @Max Parry

    You still have not explored the motive of Saudi Royal . Why would they try to do something ? Why the Bush family friends : these Saudi Royal would do so such a thing and will do under Bush presidency ?
    Makes no sense.

    Won’t it be lot easier for young MbS to pick those royals and expose them as such paving his way to throne, earning him love and respect of the world and US?

    Does the guy fighting Syrian army in the Aleppo or raping Yazzie girl know that his pistol ,kerosene ,viagra,and condom – all are financed and coordinated by USA? Did Saudi know that they were being played in the name of hijacking planes just to draw attention to situation in Palestine .

    Did the plane like the plan which then fly into a wrong direction because all along the plan was fundamentally different from what Saudi master told the Saudis and American handlers .?

    • Replies: @Max Parry
  80. Max Parry says: • Website
    @KA

    There’s many motives for them to. For one, Bush’s declaration of the Axis of Evil includes Iran (KSA’s arch enemy). Bandar even allegedly got the memo about the invasion of Baghdad before Colin Powell even though the Saudis didn’t participate in the US coalition.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Ron Unz
  81. Dube says:
    @MalePaleStale

    Rugs? Seriously. … Carpeting yes, but never rugs. Is that an East coast thing?

    Sofas too, don’t forget the sofas. That’s the midwestern insight to the analysis. The flammability of rugs and sofas was explosively manifest when the fires leapt from the adjoining towers. To these leaping fires add music: a video prepared to explain all this was irrefutably sound-tracked with Carmina Burana. Play it again, you just can’t say no.

  82. FB says: • Website
    @Iris

    No, you’re an insult to basic common sense…

    A plane crashing into the ground can make a pretty deep hole, depending on how steeply it went in…but it will not BURY itself…that’s physically impossible…but that is the official story…

    I have noted here on numerous occasions, and even posted pictures of the crash site, how egregiously fantastic that story is…

    Your comment is ridiculously amateurish…a plane usually makes a shallow impact crater because its dive angle is usually shallow, so only a fraction of its kinetic energy is brought to bear…

    Kinetic energy is a vector quantity, it has both magnitude and DIRECTION…if the plane impacts the side of a vertical cliff, then all of its kinetic energy will be transferred…or if it dives into flat terrain at a 90 degree dive, which rarely happens…

    Simple trig will tell you that the amount of energy transferred will be proportional to the tangent of the flight path angle…

    • Replies: @FB
  83. FB says: • Website
    @FB

    Meant to say COSINE not tangent…specifically it would be 1 minus cosine of the flight path angle, relative to the horizontal…

    So a plane impacting terrain at 10 degrees would transfer only two percent of its kinetic energy…even at anight extremely steep dive of 60 degrees, it would only be half…

  84. @Sam J.

    A building that falls with no support but air doesn’t need an engineering study.

    The Architect & Engineers study from Alaska is too little and far too late. Since it ignores the crucial nuclear destruction aspects clearly observed before, during, and after the destruction of the three buildings in lower Manhattan, it is essentially a limited hangout – yet another distraction from reality.

    The diagrams at the following link help explain why the shorter Building 7 would have fallen down differently (bottom-up) than the two taller towers (top-down) earlier that day.

    https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Nuclear_demolition

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  85. A bit long, but this video is very convincing:

  86. skrik says:
    @FB

    wing spars, which are designed to carry four times the aircraft weight… easily penetrate the lattice like steel shell … So there is nothing ‘fake’ about that video… hundreds of people saw the second plane go in…

    Err, *exactly* which video, please? Then, which “hundreds of people,” please? I used to think that yes, I saw it on TV, but really, Q: What was shown? A: Big fireballs, but *no plane collisions*. Critically, where could the two wing spar-assemblies have gone? I used to think that yes, with sufficient speed, mainly [hi-tech] alu planes could cut through steel = the WTC1&2 wall panels with the wing-tips ‘wrapping’ through the window-gaps, but after that would come the core columns. IF the wing spars could cut through the *core* columns THEN the top of each tower would have instantly keeled over – didn’t happen, so any wing spars of the putative hijacked/tower-collision planes *must* have ended up somewhere = in the rubble-pile, and would have subsequently been touted as ‘the peoples exhibit #1.’ Also didn’t happen, eh? Next, kindly explain how jet-fuel fires caused the vertical-collapse of *not 2 but 3* WTC towers, WTC7 having gone into free-fall for ~2.5secs… rgds

    • Replies: @FB
  87. emplar says:

    How apt. Israel equals 9/11 equals COVID19 (plus, equals ISIS). Common thread – attempt at world domination. 9/11 was opening shot – they wanted their enemy to be world’s enemy. ISIS was their declaration of war against the world. COVID19 is their kill shot.

  88. Miro23 says:
    @Sam J.

    Excellent video. There’s so much evidence coming out now, and so many people know, that the US Deep State/Neocons/CIA/Israel can no longer hold this together.

    They more or less have to take absolute power now (run a coup) they’re going to survive. If not, their collaborators will jump ship and they’ll start get whistleblowers everywhere – i.e. they’ll have to exit the US and run to safety in Israel or elsewhere.

  89. FB says: • Website
    @skrik

    Well…I’m glad you ‘used to’ think a jumbo jet could penetrate the THIN shell of a building…but now you ‘know’ better [while not having any engineering qualifications…]

    Nobody says the aircraft severed the main structural columns in the core of the building…its energy would have dissipated by plowing through the egg crate-like outer shell…an inelastic collision…and would have very little energy by the time it got there…that’s how an air bag works, or a stuntman falling into a pile of cardboard boxes…

    As for the fires, they were totally inadequate intensity and of too short duration to weaken the steel frame structure…never mind to melt steel…I have already discussed in some detail the fact that no PROPER heat transfer analysis has ever been done…and what has been presented in terms of thermal science in the official report is pure amateur hour…

    Most of the jet fuel was consumed in those two huge fireballs OUTSIDE the building, on impact…so very little fuel would have been available for a fire…

    The fuel tanks in the wings are covered by relatively thin aluminum…at impact they would instantly rupture, and the fuel would be literally ATOMIZED in a cloud, which is why we saw those fireballs…

    Had there been any fuel left inside the building we would have seen more fireballs shooting out the windows, but we didn’t…this tells us that any amount of fuel left over was no longer in a vapor state where it is at a fuel to air ratio suitable for combustion…thus no more fireballs…

    Any remaining fuel would have burned at a very low intensity in what is known as a diffuse flame, where the fuel to air mixture is not ideal…

    The official story claims that office furniture and carpets accounted for the majority of the fuel for the fire…this is again a low temperature fire, like a house fire…about 1,000 degrees…

    This again is confirmed by the huge amounts of black smoke, which indicates a diffuse fire…to get a lot of heat you want no smoke but a lot of flame…

    Look up the pictures of that Madrid high rise fire…the massive orange flame literally engulfed the entire building, and burned that way for 24 hours, leaving nothing but the bare steel frame standing…but the building didn’t come down…

    That fire was orders of magnitude more energetic than the WTC fires, and the building much smaller…if ever an inferno would take down a steel frame building, this would be it…

    But it proved just the opposite, and what specialists in thermal science have known all along…there is simply not enough heat transfer available from an OPEN flame to heat up a steel frame structure to the point of strength degradation…

    • Replies: @skrik
    , @Alexandros
  90. anon[228] • Disclaimer says:
    @Max Parry

    “For one, Bush’s declaration of the Axis of Evil includes Iran (KSA’s arch enemy). Bandar even allegedly got the memo about the invasion of Baghdad before Colin Powell even though the Saudis didn’t participate in the US coalition.”

    Not a probable cause Unlikely explanation .

    It was in 2001 when the power point presentation in the Defense Intelligence Meeting hosted by Rumsfeld under the aegis of Richrad Perle who allowed a French citizen with 2 other countries citizenship come to USA ,give a talk about how to change the borders of Jordan Egypt and Saudi Arab and bring them under more political and economic control of USA, that really did not go well down with lot of people It was threat . Some back pedaled. The attack on Saudi Arab did not stop in US media until sometimes around 2013 when Saudi bought Israeli propaganda outfit by bribing them to the tune of 13 billion .

    Rogue Saudi element working with US and Israel and Pakistan ? Or they were only minor actors in the game not knowing what they had got themselves into ?

    • Replies: @Max Parry
  91. Max Parry says: • Website
    @anon

    Well the Saudis have since accused Israel of involvement in 9/11 and vice-versa so they have thrown each other under the bus. Some analysts believe Mossad infiltrated the Hamburg cell and directed the hijackings.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  92. skrik says:
    @FB

    Nobody says the aircraft severed the main structural columns in the core

    “Truthers” is a very nasty, deliberate and contemptible slur, but nevertheless with a kernel of ‘truth,’ since that’s what types like me actually seek. I won’t/don’t try to proselytise you [or anyone; F-IW], but FYI: No planes. rgds

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @Sam J.
  93. In NYC that day the Jews came out of the shadows to strike America, 5, not 2, not 3, but 5 buildings were imploded.

    Not hate. Just unacceptable.

  94. Ron Unz says:
    @Max Parry

    There’s many motives for them to. For one, Bush’s declaration of the Axis of Evil includes Iran (KSA’s arch enemy). Bandar even allegedly got the memo about the invasion of Baghdad before Colin Powell even though the Saudis didn’t participate in the US coalition.

    Well, in glancing at this thread, I’m afraid I’m also very skeptical of any even half-logical motive of Saudi involvement in the 9/11 attacks.

    After all, the attacks were initially pinned on Bin Laden, someone closely associated with elite Saudi circles, then later (rather illogically) used to justify the Neocon-orchestrated attack on Iraq. I remember at the the time, the Saudis were *absolutely* opposed to the Iraq War, presumably because they (correctly) believed it would remove the major regional balance against Iran, and generally destabilize the region.

    It’s easy to imagine that some individual Saudis were somehow lured into financially associating themselves with a few of the alleged hijackers, presumably so that they be used as fall-guys if necessary at some point in the future.

    But organizing a crime of such magnitude should require some reasonable motive. And I just can’t see any such motive on the part of the Saudis. Frankly, it would almost be more plausible for the Iranians to have been behind 9/11.

    • Agree: L.K, Sam J.
  95. Karel says:
    @Sam J.

    I could not find in the article anything about a plastic pellet. Is it your latest invention? How would you accelerate a piece of plastic to about 25 Mach and prevent its disintegration?

    • Replies: @Sam J.
  96. @Ron Unz

    The Saudis would indeed have no rational (self interest) motive to cooperate with the 9/11 conspiracy. Bribery by the US would be excluded because they are themselves rich enough.

    But there are indeed indications that they cooperated with the US in providing the “patsies” for the 9/11 conspiracy, so how can we explain that?

    The only way to solve this conundrum is if we accept another conspiracy theory about the Saudi royal family and that is that they are not really Arabs but descendants of a crypto-Jew from Iraq who settled in Arabia in the 18th century and married into a local family. The Wahhabi sect that dominates Saudi Arabia is also rumored to have been founded by a crypto-Jew.

    If we accept this theory, then that could explain a lot of things otherwise unexplainable, which are : the fact that Saudi Arabia always cooperated with the US, was and is never really anti-Israel, cooperated with the first war against Iraq, cooperated with the plot to destroy Syria, cooperates with the campaign against Iran, and has intensive secret relations with Israel. On the religious front, as “Wahhabis” they have strangely destroyed many holy places in Mecca such as the house of the prophet Muhammad etc.

    Cooperating with the 9/11 conspiracy would indeed go against Arab and Muslim interests, but are the Saudis really Arabs and Muslims?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  97. profnasty says:
    @Poco

    Americans of German descent burned their European families children alive in 1944.
    Thanks Smedley.

  98. Ron Unz says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    The only way to solve this conundrum is if we accept another conspiracy theory about the Saudi royal family and that is that they are not really Arabs but descendants of a crypto-Jew from Iraq who settled in Arabia in the 18th century and married into a local family. The Wahhabi sect that dominates Saudi Arabia is also rumored to have been founded by a crypto-Jew.

    Sure, I’ve seen those claims floating around on the Internet, but it’s about the most utterly ridiculous and implausible “conspiracy theory” one could possibly imagine.

    Did the Saud family have Jewish ancestry back in the 18th century? Who knows! Who cares!

    But for 300 years, they’ve always been known as zealous Muslims, closely allied with the fanatical Wahabi sect. After 300 years of uninterrupted intermarriage with other zealous Muslim families of the Arabian Peninsula, any original Jewish ancestry would have gotten rather “thin.” Or do you believe that all the other Muslims of Arabian are also secret Jews? Bear in mind that traditional Judaism is strictly matrilineal and all leading Saudis have taken outside wives for 10 generations.

    But let’s suppose it’s true, and just ask ourselves whether any of the current Sauds “consider” themselves to be Jews? Well, there are many thousands of members of the ruling family, and if they regarded themselves as Jewish, surely at least one of them would have spilled the secret over the last few generations. Or is the secret only told to a new Saudi king when he comes to the throne? I think you’ve been watching too many SciFi films.

    The bottom line is that (at most) current Saudis are 0.1% Jewish by ancestry, 0.00% Jewish by Jewish law, and none of them have thought of themselves as being Jewish for at least 10 generation.

    “Conspiracy theories” like this merely prove that people on the Internet have absolutely no common sense.

    As for “cooperating with the 9/11 conpiracy,” what are we really talking about? Maybe some particular Saudi giving a few tens of thousands of dollars to a few Saudi Arabs in the US because someone asked them do to so? That’s not even paperclip money.

    To the extent that a few rich Saudis did that, they were obviously just being framed as gullible patsies. And rich Saudis are not exactly known as the world’s greatest geniuses…

    • Replies: @meena
  99. @Priss Factor

    Hard to disagree.
    For example, after reading this great article and spending some time on verifying
    certain triggered by it suspicions, no matter who tells me that there’s no connection
    between the Reichstag fire in 1933 and the Sep. 11 2001 attack I will not agree.

  100. meena says:
    @Ron Unz

    I fully agree with your take on the Saudi- Jewish relationship. It’s s bogus and it introduces distraction lumps stupidity with scholarship .Not helpful at all. I have tried to piece together various ideas that run through those articles connecting Saudis , California ambassador and hijackers Pakistani wire transfer and stuff like that. But thy don’t answer the question and they dont even help .

  101. Your whole idea rests on an “attack”.
    There was no attack, it was a demolition at least possible cost to the Insurer.
    If you want a bare-bones idea of the actual simplicity of the plan, please, I offer you this:
    https://greenpets.co.za/index.php/en/32-paranoid-goy/economics/109-911-wayleave
    The truth is always simple and self-evident, the Official Truth always requires faith and sacrifice… and fake television footage!

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Iris
  102. @FB

    The fuel tanks did not explode until fully inside the building, as the video clearly shows. That seems ridiculous to me when hitting an outer steel grid designed to dissipate penetrating force. It would need to shatter that grid completely, enter into the building, and only then ignite the fuel.

    And that’s only a small part of the strangeness going on that day. Somehow all the news helicopters in the air that day recorded the second impact from the exact same angle. And all the witnesses on the ground were either news employees or actors with funny names reciting scripts. To top it off in a city the size of New York, not a single confirmed amateur recording of the event exists. A handful of videos are claimed to be such, but since they all reiterate the official version, they are probably official plants as well. Same phenomenon could be seen in my country when the so called mass murderer Breivik was driven to court and not a single photographer from the hundreds of outlets present took a picture of him. The only pictures taken were from one man, the same set distributed throughout the world. Not other pictures exist.

    The answer to this is that if you are going to fake something, you need to control every aspect of it. An actual plane can not be trusted to do the job. What if they miss? What if it is shot down? The whole operation falls to pieces. A missile is not an option either, because somebody could snatch a picture of it, and it might not hit exactly where you want it to. Likely the explosion and the fall was the only thing that was real, and that was arranged by demolition experts in advance. The rest is media fakery and CGI. Even the killings are in doubt. With dead people you have families demanding answers. If you just fake it all there will be nodoby asking any questions and if caught, not even a murder charge to pin you on. Is it even a crime to lie to people? That’s all they did. A Hollywood movie on the big screen, presented as real.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @FB
  103. Anonymous[785] • Disclaimer says:
    @paranoid goy

    The company that did the actual demolition job is well known, but they completely disappeared, and the television series they made just two years prior, taking the viewer into the belly of their implosive process, suddenly never existed

    Which company is this and what is the name of their television series?

  104. Sparkon says:
    @Max Parry

    Some analysts believe Mossad infiltrated the Hamburg cell and directed the hijackings.

    Good article Mr. Parry, but that so-called Hamburg Cell was centered on big phony and reputed 9/11 “mastermind” Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who previously was reported to have been killed in a shootout with the cops in Pakistan on 9/11/2002, before coming back to life and confessing to a raft of major crimes.

    IOW, toss it out; it’s totally sheep-dipped garbage, like WMD liar Curveball.

    All the noise about the hijackers is a big red herring for the simple reason there were no hijacked jetliners on 9/11, and thus no hijackers.

    The sine qua non of the 9/11 legend is two hijacked 767s crashing into the WTC’s Twin Towers, and then disappearing within each building after leaving their outlines on the facades of WTC 1 and WTC 2.

    A bird can penetrate the thin aluminum skin of an airliner like a 767, but there are still people who believe that the fragile skin of a 767 could slice through 1/4″ steel box columns that enclosed each of the Twin Towers like a steel cage.

    Each of the 240 exterior box columns on both WTC Twin Towers had four surfaces of 1/4″ steel plate at the level where the jets appeared to have struck. That means the fragile aluminum skin of a 767 was supposed to have cut through all 4 of those steel surfaces on quite a few of those box columns on 9/11.

    It couldn’t happen, and it didn’t happen.

    Incidentally, I’m still wondering why reputed Flt. 11 stewardess Betty Ong — “Black Betty” — had the Chinese name 鄧月薇, or Deng Yuewei:

    https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/revisiting-911-betty-ong-and-the-mystery-of-black-betty/?display=showcomments#comment-2298699

  105. meena says:
    @Sparkon

    Attack did take place Planes did hit WTC. Yes ,legitimate questions can be raised about Pentagon attack and WTC 7 building .
    But lets not get trapped by and stuck at these intriguing possibilities .

    The things are known widely known and acknowledged by government – Dancing Israelis, Urban Moving of Dom unique Suttar, Israeli art students , instant messaging from Israeli firm telling the Jews people to stay away from WTC , Philip Jack’s foreknowledge of anthrax being mailed and the obstruction of the investigation by Wolfowitz gang before 911 happened followed by immediate demand to attack Iraq ( through its Goym proxies and by themselves ) need to be explored and in investigated.

    Around same time – Mexocan parliament was tacked by israeli military personnel . Israeli posing as Pakistani-Afghanistan boarded plane to attend religious gathering in Bangladesh but was stopped in Kolkata airport and handed over to Israel at Israeli demand ( BBC source ) . Soon after 911, Palestine Authority arrested guys posing as Al Quiada operative who were trained and sent by Israel.

    The obvious facts that are still extant in the online world and known to millions outside USA and that never been challenged by any US-Israeli-UK media but simply ignored need to be investigated . 911 will become transparent and clear .

  106. Iris says:
    @Alexandros

    An actual plane can not be trusted to do the job. What if they miss?

    – At sea level, close to high density population with telecom antenna coverage, ordinary mobile phone operated in 2001. Using a real plane would have carried the risk for any passenger, not just crew members, to raise the alarm and derail the plot, especially the 2nd attack on the South Tower.

    – Using a remotely controlled aircraft in replacement would have been similarly risky, as “wrong” spare parts with “rogue” serial numbers would have fallen to the ground and be collected by the public.

    – The only solution was to use CGI planes, allegedly crashing into Towers that were in preparation pre-planted with explosives by the Israeli “artists”, under a pattern mimicking the section of an aircraft.

    FB knows all this; he just pretends to be silly, so replying to these comments is a waste of time.

  107. Iris says:
    @paranoid goy

    Thanks for this key phrase found in your article:

    THE BUILDING’S STRUCTURE WAS DAMAGED AT FOUNDATION LEVEL

    Anybody really interested in 9/11 should understand its meaning and contemplate the implications.

    • Replies: @paranoid goy
  108. KA says:

    “ Ronen Bergman is not a neutral journalist. In 2018, a Mondoweiss reporter slipped into a closed event in suburban New York hosted by AIPAC, the Israel lobby’s flagship, where Bergman heaped praise on the group: “You’ve got our backs.” That same year, Bergman published Rise and Kill First, a book about dozens of Israeli assassinations over decades that “brims with jokes about killing Arabs.” These cracks are made by veterans of Israeli security services: one says that a Palestinian target “died of natural causes by swallowing a pillow.” Another is quoted: the right way to confront the Israeli-Arab dispute is by “separating the Arab from his head.”

    New York Times reporters are supposed to maintain neutrality. They are not supposed to publicize their political opinions, donate to campaigns, or attend demonstrations — even about issues they do not cover themselves. (A Times woman journalist told me years ago she couldn’t go to a pro-choice rally even though her beat was education.) Surely the paper can find such people to report on Israel/Palestine?” http://www.mondoweiss.net

    https://mondoweiss.net/2020/04/biased-ny-times-article-glorifies-israels-spy-service-in-the-fight-against-covid-19/

    As long as the tradition of nurturing protecting promoting Israeli centric views continue and as long as suppressing the dangerous inimical Israeli activities continue in media and political forum, 911 will never be investigated honestly logically and transparently
    .

  109. FB says: • Website
    @Alexandros

    No…the fuel vapor cloud OUTSIDE the building did not explode until the plane had already penetrated the building…

    BIG DIFFERENCE

    Lay people who don’t have a basic understanding of how physics work get hung up on seemingly mysterious details like this…

    But there is nothing unusual about it if you think it through…

    In the first milliseconds of the impact, the fuel tanks rupture explosively due to the collision…

    The two vapor clouds from the two respective wing tanks form OUTSIDE the building…in the milliseconds that have elapsed, the airplane moving at close to 900 feet per second has already penetrated inside the building, when those vapor clouds explode…

    The jet is less than 200 feet long, so it takes just one fifth of a second for it to disappear inside the building…

    The rest of your speculation about videos and witnesses is just paranoid nonsense…thousands of people witnessed the plane going in…

    After the first building was hit all the eyes in the city, and all the workers in nearby buildings were looking skyward…

    How many hundreds of gawkers rubberneck when passing a crash on the highway…?

    • Replies: @paranoid goy
  110. FB says: • Website

    Look, you’re obviously a profoundly retarded individual, as proved by your idiotically mindless habit of bolding the first letter of your senseless comments…

    If you think a 200 ton airplane going 500 mph is supposed to bounce off a quarter inch of steel, then you are clinically an idiot…

    Do you even have a faint notion of what ENERGY means…that 200 ton airplane going 500 miles an hour is packing over FIVE BILLION joules of kinetic energy…or over 120 billion foot-pounds in imperial units…

    As for an airplane being ‘flimsy’…do you know the material properties of 2024 and 7075 grades of aircraft aluminum alloy…those are STRONGER than mild steel used in construction…

    It’s not my fault that you’re a mental patient…but please do me a favor and stop addressing me on this forum…

    • Replies: @Sam J.
  111. FB says: • Website
    @Sparkon

    Above comment is for you numbskull

  112. @Anonymous

    I do not say this was the company that did the job. The gist is, all public evidence of how buildings are imploded with thermite disappeared for a while there, most notably the guys in question. I mean, the geniusses at Mythbusters and Popular Mechanics all “proved” that thermite barely melts a tin can! The series was on Discovery (South Africa) years ago. I heard rumours they relocated to the Mideast after the series, which may be the Israel/Saudi connection. I remember them bragging they originally made their name with a very difficult sport stadium demolition in America, where they are from. Now I can find not a mention of them anywhere… and I do not have false memories about this, it was a whole series. We were a young couple pinching pennies for the most basic satellite service, and that show was one of the very few that bore watching, even if it was crap about imploding buildings. Their professionalism was quite impressive, memorable even…

  113. @Iris

    Yeah, I sometimes get my dates wrong, the attack was in 1993. Also, it turns out the building was designed for a twenty-year life span only. Plus, PLUS, it was built in the ’70s, full of asbestos! The reason the building had so few people, was that whole blocks of floors were condemned, standing empty for years already. The things had to come down, including WTC7, the things were insurance nightmares.
    And we all know, modern money theory calls for us to “move away from the social services model, and towards an insurance model”. The insurance companies are our new legislative branch of government.

  114. @FB

    Bring us one scrap of aeroplane from one of your “crash sites”. And please, if you are going to show us aircon ducting, lift hoist motors and aluminium siding, just don’t! Also, at one fifth of a second, a video camera should have captured at least 5 frames (25 fps) or a cellphone three (15fps). That plane disappears in one frame. Buildings that size do not use mild steel, go bend a rebar! Go see the extensive mechanical analysis of the materials under that hypothetical impact. The buildings were designed to take four hits from a 747. The fire ball outside the building shows al the marques of explosions paired with phosporus pyrotechnics for effect. Fuel explosions have a very characteristic shape and colour, not seen. There has never before or since been an example of a building “pancaking”. Where are all the security cam footage of the whole damn New York? That white dust was an immediate giveaway for thermite. The white dust in Syria was an amateurish attempt to pretend all buildings explode in white dust, so dramatic!, nothing but thermite does that, proven by the aluminium oxide/ iron drops found in there. There was no attack, no planes, no Arabs and definitely no magically indestructable passports, full stop.
    We are not attacking you or your world view, but if you take yourself less seriously, you may realise the people you respect most, are lying to you. Forget about 911, start wondering why they need you to ‘religify’ it. Diefy? Use it as an excuse to demonise everyone you fear?
    Bring us one piece of wreckage!

    • Replies: @Desert Fox
    , @FB
  115. @paranoid goy

    Agree, no planes were used, anyone interested can go to youtube and see John Lears analysis of 911 and he agrees with Judy Wood on how it was done.

    • Replies: @Max Parry
  116. @Anonymous

    My head’s falling off today. Confirmed with the wife. The company on the show were sort-of celebreties, and the news they moved was sort of TV gossip. The Link between them and WTC I inferred from things said at the time, tying WTC job to a stadium job. I confess to forgetting details, I wrote that many moons ago. And THEM cleaned tracks very well.

  117. FB says: • Website
    @paranoid goy

    Calm down…I have brought a lot of real science to this effort to get to the truth…

    The official story about the building collapses is impossible of course, as are many more aspects of the story…

    But it hurts the cause when people insist on equally impossible scenarios like holograms and basement nukes…

    There were aircraft [of some type]…and I say that as an aerospace engineer and professional pilot…it is stupid to claim otherwise when so many witnessed this…it only discredits the cause…

    It’s equally insane to spout nonsense about large, fast moving airliners not being able to penetrate the outer shell of that building…

    Also it would help if you got basic facts right…rebar is mild steel…and rebar wasn’t even used in the fabrication of that perimeter structure…

    And the building was designed to take a hit from a single 727, not four 747s, which are much bigger…

    And according to this nonsense about jumbo jets bouncing off buildings, then I guess little Kamikaze propeller planes should have just bounced off those heavily armored battleship superstructures, instead of penetrating and even sinking them…?

    And that’s not even one thousandth the energy of a 600 mph widebody jet…

    Go and get that piece of rebar and lean it against a wall…then smash it with an aluminum baseball bat…see which one gives…

  118. @Sparkon

    In the comment you link to, you (or the writer) discuss the idea that the Ong surname seems wrong for a black girl. Well, maybe I can clear that up. Some years ago, a Chinese-American guy showed me a google images page full of photos of absolutely non-Asian white men with the name Ong. Apparently, it is not only Chinese. Now, if a white person can have the name Ong, a black person can too, I would say.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  119. Iris says:
    @FB

    I would give you a LOL, FB, but that wouldn’t acknowledge all the credit you deserve for such an effort.

    Your comment is a masterpiece which requires one LOL for each sentence. Best.

  120. @Been_there_done_that

    There was no nuclear destruction unless splitting the atom no longer creates daughter products, which is pretty much the definition of anything nuclear. No daughter products of a nuclear explosion were ever found at the WTC. Jones tested for them. He was only a nuclear physicist who had worked for years at Lawrence Livermore labs.

    This is such a stupid idea.

    Jones and Harrit definitively proved that the dust of the WTC was loaded with nanothermites which had more than enough power to take the buildings down.

    And any article like Parry’s, that does not mention Jones and Harrit’s work, starts out with a grade of C. I did a “find” search and didn’t come up with anything.

    So I won’t waste my time reading it even if it gets most everything else right.

    • Agree: 2stateshmustate
    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Sparkon
  121. Iris says:
    @davidgmillsatty

    No daughter products of a nuclear explosion were ever found at the WTC.

    Go and tell that to the 10,000+ WTC first responders who were struck with cancer, or to their surviving families

    In the parallel world of Zionist false flags, nothing is impossible, even office fires become carcinogenic.

  122. @FB

    I am left wondering what substance is capable of maintaining the levels of intense heat that remained below ground level in those buildings for several weeks? The insulation provided by surrounding debris just doesn’t cut it, the heat was enough for the steel to remain molten and near molten for periods many, many times longer than is possible with conventional explosives and required an ongoing reaction. What besides some form of fission can produce that result?

    It is also difficult to imagine that some aircraft parts of the wings and tail sections would not have tumbled down to street level but I have yet to see any despite there being an hour or so of many people everywhere and plenty of pictures prior to the buildings coming down, just none of any aircraft parts. How do you account for this?

    • Agree: Iris, anarchyst
    • Replies: @FB
  123. Sparkon says:
    @davidgmillsatty

    Jones and Harrit definitively proved that the dust of the WTC was loaded with nanothermites which had more than enough power to take the buildings down.

    Well, here you are again davidgmillsatty. Apparently, you’ve forgotten already our previous discussion on this very matter of your cherished nanothermite’s power, or lack thereof, to blow something up.

    Once again I challenge you to cite a real-world demonstration — not a theory or paper — of nanothermite’s alleged ability to blow something to pieces, i.e. provide proof that it is a powerful explosive agent.

    You remember proof. You were demanding it recently under PCR’s article.

    https://www.unz.com/proberts/a-new-world-is-being-born-what-will-it-be/#comment-3830021

    This nanothermite is so powerful, so awesome, that somebody by now must have made a video of the doggone stuff blowing something to smithereens, because there are guys who love to blow stuff up, and if nanotherite had the bang, somebody would make a video. I’ve seen the videos with the sparks flying, so don’t bother with that. We already know thermite is an incendiary used to cut through steel, but slowly. By all accounts, the thermites react too slowly to be very useful in controlled demolitions, and some people think what Jones, Harrit, et al found in the WTC dust was paint chips.

    Until we see a convincing demonstration or two of the alleged awesome explosive power of nanothermite, there is no reason to think it can do what you claim, i.e. have “more than enough power to take the buildings down.”

    If you’ve got it, show it, but I’m not holding my breath.

    • Replies: @Sam J.
  124. Max Parry says:
    @Desert Fox

    My suspicion is that the “no planes” nonsense was planted and spread by undercover law enforcement and counterintelligence to discredit the truth movement.

    • Replies: @Desert Fox
    , @Rurik
  125. @Max Parry

    There were no planes, fake videos of planes were used and one of the fake planes nose was shown protruding out the other side of one of the towers and no plane parts were found, the plane psy op was used as a diversion , check what John Lear a pilot and son of William Lear the developer of the Lear jet has to say on his youtube videos and holograms of planes were used.

    Israel and traitors in the ZUS government did 911 and the pentagram was a prewired explosion, see April Gallops youtube videos where she was working at the pentagram and walked out through the hole and saw no plane or missile parts.

    To see how the WTC was destroyed go to drjudywood.com and wheredidthetowersgo.com.

  126. @anonymous

    Do you remember on September 1oth, Donald Rumsfeld announcing that 2.3 trillion dollars was missing from the Pentagon budget, and the very next day, the 46 forensic auditors working the case of the missing money were killed when the section of the Pentagon in which they worked was destroyed by a commercial airliner, a section that had just been reinforced to withstand such an event? And do you remember who the Comptroller General of the Pentagon was at this time? Why, it was one Dovid
    Zackheim, an holder of dual citizenship. And what did Mr. Zackheim do in the private world? Why, he was CFO of a software company(located in his other place of citizenship) which wrote the software that allowed one to control a commercial airliner remotely, provided the proper hardware was installed on the plane you wanted to crash into things, er, I mean, fly to scheduled destinations. 17 Arabs with box cutters, my arse.

  127. @FB

    But it hurts the cause when people insist on equally impossible scenarios like holograms and basement nukes…

    The only credible reference to basement nukes I have seen pertaining to the World Trade Center appeared in Netanyahu’s book from 1995, Fighting Terrorism.

    The clear visual evidence indicating prior nuclear detonations as energy sources contributing to the spectacular demolitions of the buildings could not have come from them having been placed in the basements (lower levels) but instead many tens of meters farther below the bottom of the basements, surrounded by bedrock, which subsequently melted from the generated heat. The demolition process was facilitated by prior thermite charges that weakened the structures and connected various elevator shafts with the ground.

    The hologram and CGI stuff, however, is pure garbage, promoted mainly by crackpots.

  128. Sam J. says:
    @Sparkon

    “…This nanothermite is so powerful, so awesome, that somebody by now must have made a video of the doggone stuff blowing something to smithereens, because there are guys who love to blow stuff up…”

    Actually it’s irrelevant but they is an actual video of a guy who made his own, non-nanothermite and yes it did explode. Look it up for yourself because it doesn’t matter and I could care less. It’s not needed. Thermite could melt the column to weaken it then a much less powerful explosive is used to blow it loose. See the video I linked already above. But that doesn’t matter either. None of it matters.

    The real reason for asking evidence of some nonsense that thermite explodes, and it probably can, is another one of those Hasbara Jew task to throw off the main idea. We KNOW that building 7 was demoed because it fell with NO resistance other than air. It free fell. So it doesn’t matter if thermite can blow or not blow. It doesn’t matter.

    The Jews did 9-11.

    • Agree: 2stateshmustate
  129. Sam J. says:
    @skrik

    “…“Truthers” is a very nasty, deliberate and contemptible slur…”

    So is “spoofers” which is what anyone who says 9-11 wasn’t done by the Jews is.

    • Replies: @skrik
  130. Sam J. says:
    @Karel

    “…I could not find in the article anything about a plastic pellet…”

    The pellet you see in the picture is the same type round as what hit the aluminum. I just remembered what it was from reading about it earlier. I couldn’t quickly find a link and that was the first one that came up. It does show that with enough velocity you can easily cut through anything(definitively). After all shape charge weapons are just jets of molten metal. I believe, if I remember correctly, the plastic was fired in a vacuum and was to test space based particles hitting thick aluminum plates. The details really don’t matter as the principal stands that less dense matter at high enough velocities can cut through most anything.

  131. FB says: • Website
    @NoseytheDuke

    Those are good questions…but there are many many unanswered questions…

    The simple fact of these things is that some questions may never be answerable, even when you have all the evidence at hand…this is how it goes with most airplane crash investigations…even when you have all the crash wreckage and the flight recorders, some questions inevitably remain unanswered…

    In this case we have nothing…no wreckage, no data recorders…nothing… [although the govt claims to have all the wreckage and flight recorders from flight 93, which supposedly crashed in that Pennsylvania field, and supposedly burrowed into the ground, completely covering itself in dirt…a farcical physical impossibility…]

    So this is the general context of these things…the standard of proof is very high in science…you will note that the excellent Hulsey study on Building Seven took many years…simply to rigorously prove what seems readily apparent at a glance…

    As for your specific questions…I have very little information on the heat supposedly coming out of that wreckage…I have asked Iris to provide useful information, but she pointed me to an utterly ridiculous, rambling ‘paper’ that didn’t provide anything useful…

    Supposedly infrared sensors on satellites have measured this mysterious heat…if so then I would love to see that information…

    My understanding of these sensors, which are used to detect rocket launches in the context of national defense, is that they can only pick up quite massive, and importantly, CONCENTRATED heat sources like you get from a rocket engine…heat coming off molten metal is not going to come close to that intensity…

    As for aircraft wreckage, let’s first discuss how an aircraft is put together…the airframe consists of a skeleton of structural members that are covered by a skin…the structural members are quite massive in places, in order to withstand the tremendous loads the craft must carry in flight…this is up to five times the airplane’s weight…on a 200 ton 767 that’s 1000 tons that the structure must withstand…

    These are some of the strongest and toughest alloys developed…despite being aluminum [with titanium in places], they are stronger than most steels…it is stupid to describe these structures as ‘fragile’ as some clowns here insist…

    There are also quite massive steel structures, like the landing gear and engines…

    The outer skin is quite thin since it must be light weight…

    Now let’s consider the outer shell of that building…there is lots of good information on this even in Wikipedia…the building is constructed using the so called tube frame method…with a thin outer shell [tube] which is designed to withstand the wind loads…

    The core of the structure, the ‘frame’ is much more massive and is designed to carry the weight of the building…this leaves open floor space between the core and perimeter and makes this attractive…

    Now that outer shell is very strong in handling wind loads not because it’s massive [it isn’t, it’s only welded up small box sections using quarter inch plate thickness, maximum]…

    It’s strong due to the fact that it’s big…think of that building as a beam…a beam’s strength depends on its size…take a two by four and lay it on the floor, then take one end and bend it up while keeping your foot on the middle…you can bend it quite easily and even break it…but try putting it on its edge so the flat side is standing up instead of laying down…try bending it now…impossible right…?

    It’s the same with that perimeter shell…it has the strength to withstand huge wind loads because the entire building cross section area enclosed within that perimeter is now a ‘beam’…

    Also the plate thickness used is thicker at the bottom of the building and gets thinner towards the top…this is because the bending stresses from the wind load will be highest at the bottom…

    So basically you have a thin shell structure [remember most of the outside area is window space]…this is not designed to stop a high energy object from penetrating it…it’s designed for something else altogether…

    Think of an egg for example…have you ever tried to crush an egg lengthwise between your two palms…?…you’ll never do it…but crushing it sideways even in one hand is so easy you could even do it inadvertently…or just a slight tap with a spoon or fork…

    This is illustrative how the geometry of an object can give it incredible strength in one particular direction or loading, while being quite fragile to any kind of impact…

    Bottom line is that even a small propeller aircraft weighing a few thousand pounds and going a hundred miles an hour would crash through that shell…

    Now that we understand the basic physics of the two respective structures, let’s try to figure out what happens in a collision…

    In the first instants of an impact, the thin aircraft skin will obviously disintegrate…but the massive skeleton structure underneath will penetrate [although it too will break up]…

    The heaviest parts of the structure, like the steel landing gear and engines will stay mostly intact and will penetrate the deepest…this means that as the building came down in anew obviously controlled demolition, that most of the aircraft structure ended up buried under that pile of rubble…

    What happened to that rubble…?

    Was it ever sifted through to retrieve those aircraft pieces…?

    You tell me…

    Every aircraft accident in the history of the world has seen superhuman efforts to retrieve every single piece of wreckage, even from the bottom of the ocean…

    EXCEPT THIS ONE

    Here everything was quickly carted away and everything ‘disposed’ of…

    So how can we now ask for wreckage…it makes no sense…

    Now what about the skin pieces that should have landed outside the building…?

    Well, let’s first consider that a lot of those pieces would have followed the airplane into the building, since they have the same momentum as the airplane…if you jump out of an airplane you don’t fall straight down…you are moving at the same speed as the airplane, and will continue flying in the same path, until the air resistance against your body gradually slows you down…

    So we see that we cannot expect that much of the disintegrated skin would have ended up outside to begin with…some pieces inevitably would of course, so where are they…?

    Again, where is the rest of the wreckage…?

    Nobody knows…

    Btw…in every accident investigation, the officials will diligently take custody of every piece…have you ever heard of members of the public simply carrying home pieces of aircraft wreckage as souvenirs…?

    Presumably such pieces were also gathered up by authorities in this case…they would have been handed over to the relevant investing officials as they always are…

    BUT THEN ALL OF THAT DISAPPEARED

    They claim it’s all under lock and key, but nobody is allowed to see it…this includes the wreckage from Pennsylvania that miraculously ‘buried’ itself, but was supposedly excavated [including the flight recorders]…

    Even the NTSB has not been allowed access to any of this wreckage…another first…

    So it is abundantly obvious that a huge coverup has been perpetrated…

    That in itself is absolute proof of foul play for any normal person…why then do we need to invent completely impossible stories about holograms and basement nukes…?

    As Max Parry points out, this is probably the doing of disinformation agents that seek to discredit the truth movement…

    And one last thing…do yourself a favor and go to your airport and hang out with the plane spotters that gather outside the runway fence…tell me about the intensity of the engine roar of a ‘heavy’ that makes your entire body shake…

    Even if you could fake out thousands of eyes with a ‘hologram’ how do you reproduce such a thunderous noise…?

    This stuff about ‘no planes’ is complete nonsense…

    Were they special planes…remotely controlled…?

    That’s certainly possible with quite ordinary technical means available…

    But until we get access to that secret physical evidence, it does no good to speculate with whacky theories…

    Right now there is abundant evidence that the official story is a lie…and for reasonable people, that is enough…

    • Agree: Miro23
    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Iris
  132. @Desert Fox

    FB isn’t arguing that the planes brought down the buildings or could have brought them down. But it seems to me that if the planes were used, this had to be extremely well coordinated with those Arab hijackers and rely on their success in carrying out their part of the job just as intended by those who planned the entire operation. What if the Arabs messed up? Or what if they just hijacked the planes and flew them to a third country and started making public demands to benefit their cause while executing hostages one by one? Well I suppose after the CIA, Mossad or whoever rigged up the buildings, Silverstein or some agent would have had to sit somewhere in full view of the TWC with his finger on a remote control 24/7 waiting for whenever some Arabs would hijack some planes and crash them into the WTC to set off the demolition explosions precisely then. I go with the holograms, or just CGI for the news bulletins and controlled explosions with no Arabs and no planes. I mean why would they complicate the operation by bringing the Arabs in on it when they could do it just with CGI and demolitions? For all I know they could have done it all safely and professionally like a proper demolition job, with no casualties, and then just broadcast the prepared CGI videos and released the fake story. I mean why risk anything going wrong in this complex web of plots just to bring down some buildings that had to go anyway?

    • Replies: @Desert Fox
    , @NoseytheDuke
  133. Sam J. says:
    @FB

    “…As for an airplane being ‘flimsy’…”

    For all those who are so insistent that “flimsy” things don’t have force at high speeds here’s a simple test you can do to be convinced. Take a condom and put it into a sock. Fill it with water and tie off the condom so the water doesn’t leak out. Tie a three foot long rope to the end of the sock with the condom in it. Now have someone whirl it around as fast as they can and hit you in the head with it. If it doesn’t kill you you will soon understand kinetic energy even with flimsy things like socks, water and condoms.

    I’m sure why but no one talks about the many, many thousands of gallons of fuel behind the wings and in the rest of the plane as sources of force at high speed. The force is immense but if you don’t understand get yourself a condom and find out.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @NoseytheDuke
  134. FB says: • Website
    @Sam J.

    LOL…

    I’m rolling on the floor at the thought of some of the nincompoops here getting smacked upside the head with your experimental apparatus…

    This is exactly the kind of ‘practical education’ these nitwits need…since common sense can’t possibly penetrate their thick skulls, a whirling condom bomb sounds just about right…

  135. Sparkon says:

    Here it is again — irrefutable proof of CGI on 9/11 — for those of you still insisting that those were real 767s crashing into the WTC on Black Tuesday, and not CGI on the boob tube:

    Image: Michael Hezarkhani, CNN

    Please note that Michael Hezarkhani’s image shows what is purported to be UA175, a Boeing 767, as it appears to penetrate WTC 2 on September 11 2001.

    But how could the airplane plunge into the building up to its wing roots with no reaction from either airplane or building? It couldn’t. The image is as phony as a three-dollar bill, and is clear evidence of CGI.

    Former CIA pilot John Lear is an acclaimed airman who is qualified on more fixed wing aircraft than any other pilot. He has signed an affidavit swearing no planes hit the WTC on 9/11.

    No Boeing 767 airliners hit the Twin Towers as fraudulently alleged by the government, media, NIST and its contractors. Such crashes did not occur because they are physically impossible…

    https://www.activistpost.com/2012/03/911-affidavit-by-john-lear-son-of.html

    Finally, there were not 1000s of eyewitnesses who claimed to have seen UA175 crash into WTC 2, rather there were a scant few bad liars who made such a claim.

    One such “eyewitness” was Stanley Praimnath, who worked in Fuji Bank’s offices on the 81st floor of WTC 2. Mr. Praimnath has claimed he not only watched UA175 approach, but after crashing into his building, the airplane’s “bottom wing” was stuck in his office door:

    And for no apparent reason in mid-sentence I just raised my head and looked to the Statue of Liberty and what I see is a big plane coming towards me. This plane is coming, eye level towards me. Eye contact. I’m seeing a big gray plane, with a red stripe, and I can still see it in my eyes now. I dropped the phone, screamed, dove under my desk and I don’t know why I said what I tell you now. “Lord, you take over. I can’t do this.”

    “And I don’t know, I do not know, as God be my witness, and I’m a deacon in my Sunday school and church and I’m a Sunday school superintendent, I would not tell you a lie here. I don’t know why I said it, but I screamed.”

    The plane impacts. I try to get up and then I realize that I’m covered up to my shoulder in debris. And when I’m digging through under all this rubble, I can see the bottom wing starting to burn, and that wing is wedged 20 feet in my office doorway.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/26/nyregion/accounts-from-the-south-tower.html

    But oops! This diagram shows that Prainmath’s office was nowhere near where UA175 allegedly crashed into WTC 2.


    Image: Christopher Bollyn

    http://hugequestions.com/Eric/TFC/Bollyn-Stanley-Praimnath.html

  136. @Commentator Mike

    Understood, however John Lear and drjudywood.com has the answers on how it was done, and bottom line Israel and traitors in the ZUS government did the attack, and by the way 7 WTC buildings were destroyed , these were 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and the twin towers 1 and 2, and all we ever hear about is building 7 which was a controlled demo and the twin towers, but 7 buildings were destroyed for details go to drjudywood.com.

    • Thanks: Commentator Mike
  137. FB says: • Website
    @Sparkon

    What kind of ‘reaction’ are you expecting, IDIOT…?

    Please explain your Alzheimer physics so we can understand precisely what the problem is with that picture [assuming it hasn’t been tampered with]…

    And btw…no person alive in New York city was looking up, after the tallest building in the city was hit by an airplane and belching smoke…?

    Nor did anyone bother to look up as the defeaning ROAR of a jumbo jet going 600 mph and just a few hundred feet off the ground…?

    In a city of 20 million…?

    I’ll tell you where I was that morning…I was on the phone with my insurance broker…he told me to turn on the TV because an airplane had crashed into a building…a few minutes later the SECOND plane went in…

    You know, the one EVERYONE saw…

    I have to wonder how a complete retard like you has managed to survive to adulthood…?

    • Agree: Jon Baptist
    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  138. @Sparkon

    Yes. And if it was CGI it means all the interviews with firemen, eyewitnesses, etc. everything we were shown is just fake. A Hollywood show with actors and extras from the various departments. Sort of a non-event, but a real demolition, that was used to start wars. Like the Gulf of Tonkin non-event, as no Viet boats attacked the US navy, but just a story that was released and used as a pretext for a war that went on for years and killed so many.

  139. sarz says:
    @Ponderer

    Sure the WTC might have been set up from the beginning with explosives. But what about all that asbestos? I suppose it’s possible, even though it’s tough to imagine the scenario.

    There were small chips of super nanothermite in the WTC dust. The towers were put up in 1970. Time travel? Or was it laboriously installed in secret long after the towers were built?

    I suppose you are earning a salary for your presence here. It’s good of Ron Unz to provide so many employment opportunities.

  140. Iris says:
    @FB

    As for your specific questions…I have very little information on the heat supposedly coming out of that wreckage…I have asked Iris to provide useful information, but she pointed me to an utterly ridiculous, rambling ‘paper’ that didn’t provide anything useful…

    For those really interested in what happened on 9/11, a research paper of 61 pages based on 72 science and technology references was produced by a French University professor with impeccable credentials, Pr Francois Roby.

    Astonished by the fact that the WTC rubble radiated heat for almost 4 months, he calculated a low estimate for the thermal energy released at the WTC collapse.

    The calculation returned an astronomical 10^15 Joules (1 Peta Joules), an amount of energy in the order of that produced by a 900 MW nuclear reactor over a month, and proving that the fuel radiating under the WTC was of nuclear nature.

    Despite he did not make any political inference, Pr Roby was straightaway labelled an “Anti-Semite” and dismissed from his job.

    More importantly, none of his persecutors was able to refute his demonstration, although it relies only on undergraduate-level Physics.

    https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-02004696

    • LOL: FB
  141. @Sparkon

    “No Boeing 767 airliners hit the Twin Towers”

    You appear to think that there are only two possibilities, either that very specific passenger aircraft or else none at all.

    Did it ever occur to you that just because it may not have been a Boeing 767 airliner that flew into the building it still could have been a different (modified) Boeing aircraft, with no passengers, perhaps an early prototype of a subsequent 767 tanker aircraft?

    Wouldn’t it be more reasonable to have used a custom plane, electronically controlled, with plenty of kerosene to produce a spectacular fireball upon impact, for an important “mission” like that?

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  142. meena says:
    @Carroll Price

    Does it include the details on the passports of the Saudi hijackers that flew out of the window of the Boeing before or after it had struck the twin tower and reached the ground safe while opening up in the air with the pages fluttering ?

  143. @Sparkon

    “— irrefutable proof of CGI on 9/11 —”

    To me the photo you presented looks like an obvious fake. Notice the old-style image of the brown building to the left of the two towers with cylindrical water reservoir atop. It is not in the foreground but in the background. Based on the camera angle looking upward, this brown building in the background would have had to be one of the tallest in Manhattan.

    Thank you for having exposed yourself as a total fraud with your silly nonsense.

  144. @Been_there_done_that

    There seem to be holes in whichever theory we pick, and most of all in the official one. I suppose it’s possible that they flew some fuel loaded planes by remote control to coordinate with the demolition as FB claims and then hid the evidence of the wreckage. But my first impression was that it was just a movie shown on CNN as the news and any witnesses we hear about are those who were part of show.

    • Replies: @Been_there_done_that
  145. @FB

    I was on the phone with my insurance broker…he told me to turn on the TV because an airplane had crashed into a building

    LOL! And on Sunday, October 30, 1938 after 8 pm, people were phoning others all over the US telling them to switch on the radio and tune into the CBS because Martians had invaded planet Earth.

    • Replies: @FB
  146. @Commentator Mike

    There seem to be holes in whichever theory we pick…

    There are only plenty of doubts (“holes”) in theories that were concocted and are inconsistent with scientific principles.

    But my first impression was that it was just a movie shown on CNN…

    You must have been watching too many Hollywood movies in your life, so I hope you are now in the process of working to overcome this problem, of having allowed your perceptions to be so easily manipulated.

  147. Iris says:
    @FB

    I am glad to read that your only reply to something as basic as the heat transfer decay equation is “LOL”. It is always uplifting to meet great scientific minds.

    “They were standing on top of a cauldron. They were standing on top of fires 2,000 degrees that raged for a hundred days.” Mayor Rudy Giuliani

    Your genius and meteoric “LOL” reply is a perfect, dazzling 3-letter answer to the lengthy questions posed by this 4,200-words article: 20 years on, 9/11 is not solved because nobody significant cares discussing significant facts of what really happened.

    Future articles on the topic should spare all the wording and just say:” 9/11, LOL”.

  148. one’s mind goes into seizure. NO there was no controlled demolition at any building during 9/11. Bldg 7 was the collection site of contraband seized by the NYPD during operations with much explosive and inflammatory materiel in it. Now you might wish to ask me how I know this ? Well I have a verifiable explanation for that as well. My brother was Senior HAZMAT officer first response officer to examine all the sites. He worked closely with Giuliani in this and many other projects for many years. The men found nothing suspicious and understood immediately what had caused the destruction I might add he was also on site in ’93 where he did find explosives in basement of Tower One I believe and reported such Unhappily he was in belle harbor in November when the plane went down next to our family home and was person responsible for examining the fuselage on beach 130th st. that awful day.
    He and all the rest of us here in NYC are sick and tired of this garbage from arm chair “specialists” who did not make these investigations. If you wish to call them liars or incompetent those are fighting words. It might have impressed some of these morons that NOT ONE FDNY or NYPD officer thinks this but why ask them ? they were only on the site for months.
    I am not saying official conclusions about the perpetrators is entirely settled but NO INCENDIARY devices were found. My brother has spoken personally to many of these truthers through the years some acknowledging they had been unaware facts he presented others enjoying the ride too much to agree. Things are frequently not as they seem “sounded like” “looked like” does not necessarily provide the accurate explanation of cause. Do you people actually fantasize that any of these men could have remained quiet in face of evidence proving planted devices ? shame on you all.

  149. Rurik says:
    @Max Parry

    My suspicion is that the “no planes” nonsense was planted and spread by undercover law enforcement and counterintelligence to discredit the truth movement.

    I came to this party late, but I agree with your assessment of the ‘no planes’ theory.

    I also suspect, that eve tho it was planted as psyops, (and no doubt accompanied by sophisticated CGI, (ironically to bolster a case for CGI), it has also been given some credence by people investigating the attack in good faith, but they’ve been bamboozled into the ‘no planes’ theory by sophisticated actors. Like “former” CIA John Lear, and others.

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  150. Sam J. says:
    @Donna bloom

    “…one’s mind goes into seizure…”

    I can believe that. That your mind has seized.

    “…but NO INCENDIARY devices were found…”

    Of course not they all burned up.

    • Agree: Miro23
  151. Rurik says:
    @Donna bloom

    He and all the rest of us here in NYC are sick and tired of this garbage from arm chair “specialists” who did not make these investigations. If you wish to call them liars or incompetent those are fighting words. It might have impressed some of these morons that NOT ONE FDNY or NYPD officer thinks this but why ask them ?

    do an Internet search for

    The Franklin Square and Munson Fire District 9/11 Resolution

    If you or your brother had a tiny fraction of the charactor, decency, intelligence, or heroism of so many of the thousands who perished on that day, (so that Americans would die in endless wars for Israel, slaughtering and maiming millions of innocent men, women and children), you’d come back here and beg the truthers and firefighters for forgiveness for displaying your brazen idiocy so disrespectfully.

    • Agree: Miro23
  152. FB says: • Website
    @Commentator Mike

    Now hold on a second there captain CGI…

    Yes, in 1938 a young Orson Welles pulled off the greatest hoax ever with his ‘Martian invasion’ live radio broadcast…some boneheads even got killed in the panic that ensued…

    And what happened the next day…?

    Everyone knew it was a joke…

    Now that second plane going in was broadcast LIVE worldwide…don’t you think some of the thousands of people in the vicinity would have eventually told someone there actually was no plane…?

    Just like next day people said there were no Martians…?

    Also…I never said those planes had to be empty and nobody died…I know several fellows that had flown with the AA captain on Flight 11 [first airplane]…fellow by the name of Ogonowski, former USAF man…

    Now either he decided to run away to Brazil and never contact his wife and kids, or he perished that day…

    I just don’t like speculating…but since we are getting deeply into crackpot territory, then I would say it’s not unrealistic to think that there aren’t deep state critters that wouldn’t wire a regular passenger plane for remote control and crash it into a building…

    The reason they never pulled Operation Northwoods was because it was a switcheroo and the ‘victims’ would be left alive…free to go yapping and eventually blow the whole cover…

    That ‘mistake’ wouldn’t happen with real sacrificial lambs…

    Anyway, it’s completely pointless to speculate on ‘theories’…we all know those buildings were pulled…and we should focus on forcing for release of PHYSICAL EVIDENCE…

    Only then can we investigate further…

  153. @Rurik

    I agree, the “no planes”, “mini-nukes”, and “hologram” crowd are all government plants. Unfortunately, a few dim-wits fall for it.

  154. Max Parry says:
    @Carroll Price

    By far the funniest one is Jim Fetzer’s theory that not only were the planes holograms but Ted Olson’s wife was never on Flight 77 and secretly lived abroad, only to get a bunch of plastic surgery to assume the identity of his new wife, Lady Evelyn Booth. While it is true that Olson possibly made up the phone call story, that is just pure comedy gold.

  155. FB says: • Website
    @Donna bloom

    Fuck right off you illiterate asshole…

    Hazmat my ass…

    Couldn’t bother reading the rest of your garbage…come back when you learn basic grammar and writing…

  156. Derer says:
    @FB

    Are you suggesting that throwing butter at high speed would shatter a knife? Yes or No.

    • Replies: @FB
  157. Derer says:
    @Sam J.

    Are you suggesting that throwing butter at high speed would shatter a knife?

    • Replies: @Sam J.
  158. @Commentator Mike

    this had to be extremely well coordinated with those Arab hijackers

    That’s a great punchline! LOL!

  159. @Sam J.

    I can relate to that. Years ago and late at night in a club, I was swinging my penis around showing off, as you do, when I accidentally hit a woman on the side of the head with it. Fortunately, I was not wearing a condom and the woman not only survived but instantly forgave me and offered me her number.

    • LOL: Iris
  160. @Donna bloom

    Fran? Frannie Taubman… is that you?

  161. @FB

    FB,

    I watched that second plane on 911 as it was “happening” and they said it was live but how would I know? They also said on the BBC that WTC 7 was already down but it fell just after the announcement – so is that “live”? But your explanation does explain best the sequence of events as officially reported without the need to involve some Arab terrorists in the conspiracy or the planes bringing down the buildings by means of fires. From what I remember drone aircraft weren’t yet in use at the time but I presume the military would have had the capability to apply the same to passenger craft. That still leaves the question of which explosives were used and how the buildings were brought down, but we’d be revisiting old territory, so I’ll leave it at that. Oh and they did publish a photo of a jet engine lying on the street after the event but I always thought that was a plant like the passport.

    • Replies: @FB
  162. @Carroll Price

    I would have thought government plants would be pushing the official story and not trying to debunk it. So now everyone who questions the official line is a government agent just because they have some questions about how this was done, considering the government line sounds implausible. WTF???

  163. FB says: • Website
    @Derer

    Are you a parakeet…yes or no…?

    What the hell does butter have to do with a discussion of physics, kinetic energy and materials properties…?

    Science isn’t some kind of word association game…

    Here’s one for you…if God is omnipotent, can he create a rock so heavy that even he couldn’t lift it…?

    But yes, butter could most certainly break even the strongest TITANIUM known to man…very easily in fact…never mind dinky cutlery…

    Go to youtube and look up jet engine bird ingestion…you will find videos of jet engines being tested by having supermarket poultry fired into them…

    At full hum those massive titanium fan blades are moving faster than the speed of sound…the blades get ALL BUSTED UP…

    The only requirement for FAA certification is that the shed blades are contained within the engine casing, instead of rocketing out and slicing passengers to ribbons…

    Now try to grasp the idea that the bigger the bird [and the smaller the engine], the more broken titanium blades…

    Big engines have to survive a turkey, while small engines must survive only a chicken [there are specific weights spelled out in the rules]…

    Now a big leap for your tiny pea brain…see if you can follow along…

    What do you think would happen if you threw a turkey sized slab of frozen butter into a small engine…?

    Thanks for wasting five minutes of everyone’s life, RETARD…

  164. Calgacus says:
    @Donna bloom

    Good to see at least one sane person commenting on this stupid article about ridiculous 911 Truth. South Park had it right. There is a government conspiracy here – turning people into airheads who believe in 911 Truth, probably the stupidest conspiracy theory of all time. If you can swallow this crap, you are entirely malleable to the genuine, open conspiracy of oppression that everyone sees. And 911 Truth conspiracrap is offensive to New Yorkers.

    By comparison to the stream of psychotic consciousness called 911 Truth – the “official story” – otherwise known as what everyone saw with their own eyes, is Holy Writ. Contrary to the 911 Truth’s lies, the Twin Towers were NOT designed to be resistant to the impact of airliners. It was speculated that they wouldn’t but the risk was thought to be so low and the expense so high that they weren’t designed to be. Bin-Laden claimed responsibility later and in 1999 the scholar Eqbal Ahmad at Hampshire College had speculated that he was going to launch very major attack. By now, the collapses of the twin towers under the impact of the planes is used in classrooms as an exercise in using structural engineering textbooks’ software.

    So the basics of the “official story” are not only possible, but were publicly predicted. Sure, there’s some coverup and skulduggery here and there, there always is, but nothing out of the ordinary. The evil government conspiracy is to get people to believe all this 911 Truther crap – and ignore how what is in front of their noses, how they are being robbed and killed by plutocrats and their hired politicians.

    The only good thing about this article is the mention of Ben Norton’s article accurately identifying it as a far right conspiracy theory. Everyone should read it. Max Parry is a faux leftist, not Cockburn or Chomsky, reliably sane as usual. 911 Truth, Pizzagate and Sandy Hook conspiracy theories – all far right wing conspiracy propagated by the same kooks.

  165. FB says: • Website
    @Commentator Mike

    Are you kidding…?

    Drone aircraft have been used since WW2…at first for target practice…

    The General Atomics Predator still used today all over the world saw action in Bosnia in the 1990s…there’s one in the Belgrade aviation museum that was shot down during the 1999 bombing…two years before 911…

    When I was a kid there were already radio controlled model aircraft for many years…no difference conceptually from a full size drone…

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  166. @FB

    FB

    BTW I think that broadcast by Welles was a psy op in preparation for WWII. On the surface it seems just an innocent reading of an adaptation of the H.G.Wells novel, but considering the timing and the political climate in the world and the US, the Martians were stand-ins for the Nazis, and the whole point of it was to prepare the US population for the coming war, a world war if not the War of the Worlds. Whether Welles himself was aware of this I don’t know. And that is another parallel to the 911 psy op to prepare the US citizens for the coming wars in the Middle East, but less subtle than the one in 1938. Let’s just hope this Covid-19 panic (real though the virus may be) isn’t in preparation for something even worse that TPTB have planned.

  167. Sam J. says:
    @Derer

    “…shatter a knife…”

    No but at high enough speed it would melt it. Shattering is a different thing. If you don’t understand how a plane with a wing full of fuel going 500 or 600 mph can go through steel columns then you have no business even commenting at all. You don’t have a clue.

    https://www.walb.com/story/6200366/pine-needle-punches-through-glass/

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Derer
  168. Sam J. says:
    @Carroll Price

    “…I agree, the “no planes”, “mini-nukes”, and “hologram” crowd are all government plants…”

    Fixed it for you.

    I agree, the “no planes”, “mini-nukes”, and “hologram” crowd are all “spoofers”.

  169. Sam J. says:
    @Calgacus

    “…So the basics of the “official story” are not only possible, but were publicly predicted…”

    Spoofer!

  170. FB says: • Website
    @Calgacus

    You’ve got a lot of nerve for a completely retarded troll…

    As a professional pilot and aerospace engineer, I know for a fact that nothing about 911 is being used to ‘teach’ engineering…in fact I havery done lots of undergraduate teaching…and there is no textbook that uses 911…

    Go ahead and back up this diarrhea with some evidence…what a preposterous crock of shit…

    Meanwhile, professor Hulsey just published rigorous, peer-reviewed proof that Building Seven was a demolition…

    Everything you say about New Yorkers is a crock of SHIT…

    Get lost with your four total comments, troll…

  171. @Donna bloom

    Donna, you might want to read the newly released information referenced in my earlier post, # 139.

  172. @FB

    Sure I’m aware remote control has been around since Tesla used it on a boat in a demonstration in Madison Square Garden in the 19th Century. I just wasn’t sure if there could have been problems scaling it up to Boeing passenger planes.

    • Replies: @FB
  173. @Calgacus

    Bin-Laden claimed responsibility later

    So some guy in a cave in Afghanistan “confessed” on a cassette tape that he carried out the most complex terrorist act in history bypassing all the world’s intelligence agencies. Anyone can now “confess” to being behind anything huge on the Internet.

    So someone warned that something big was going to happen. You can do the same now on www and probably be right.

    And 911 Truth conspiracrap is offensive to New Yorkers.

    So that’s an argument for not seeking the truth?

  174. J. Farmer says:

    9/11 truth has, like assassination buffs, become a cult at this point. No ones mind whose already made up will be changed, and nothing will ever come of it.

  175. @Ron Unz

    What makes you think the Saudis knew all aspects of what they were involved in?

    What makes you think the Saudis had a choice?

    Haven’t you worked out yet that intelligence operations operate via deceit and compromise/blackmail/coercion?

  176. FB says: • Website
    @Commentator Mike

    Scaling up the size of remote controlled craft is not a big deal…

    The big deal is ‘scaling’ up the distance of the control link…specifically beyond the radio horizon, where you then need to use sat link…

    But, this introduces LATENCY, due to the time it takes to bounce to and back to a sat in geostationary orbit…

    However, if you consider a scheme where one flying aircraft remotely controls another, then the latency problem goes away…since it is just line of sight, but the horizon is much bigger…

    In any case, even sat link works well enough…on a passenger jet which is quite sluggish in maneuvering anyway, it would actually work much better than say a Predator…

    This type of remote control for passenger jets has actually existed for quite some time…as a means to counter hijacking…at least experimentally…

    • Agree: Jon Baptist
    • Thanks: Commentator Mike
  177. Iris says:
    @Sam J.

    If you don’t understand how a plane with a wing full of fuel going 500 or 600 mph can go through steel columns

    Don’t forget to mention that this fantasy of yours is “true” only in the parallel world of Zionist shills.

    In the real world ruled by the laws of Physics and principles of Engineering, the alleged “plane” flying at sea level, at 500 mph, would have broken down by inflight structural failure long before reaching a tower, as the frame could not have withstand the excessive dynamic pressure exerted by the surrounding air.

    http://pilotsfor911truth.org/wtc_speed

    • Agree: Derer
    • Replies: @FB
  178. skrik says:
    @Sam J.

    Let me see if I’ve got this ‘correctly:’ Truthers hold the high ground and spoofers are going to hell? rgds

    PS You assert “no planers” are “spoofers;” can you provide one *credible* video that proves ‘plane into WTC?’ Bet you can’t!

    • Replies: @Sam J.
  179. FB says: • Website
    @Iris

    Bullshit…and you know it…

    I was forced to thoroughly debunk this nonsense of yours about an in flight breakup just the other day, and you had absolutely ZERO rebuttal… [since there is none…]

    Why don’t you go ahead and point us to ONE SINGLE EXAMPLE of a 767 ever breaking up in flight…?

    Because it has never happened that’s why…I already showed that the highest speed was just 37 knots above the airplane’s CERTIFIED DIVE SPEED…

    And that speed lasted only seconds…it takes time for an aircraft to break up due to overspeed…because the failure would start as aeroelastic flutter, a vibration that, like any vibration, requires time to build up to destructive levels…

    It’s totally unfounded to claim that an airplane with a certified dive speed of 425 knots is just going to disintegrate instantly at 460 knots…

    You’re really a hopeless case…

    • Replies: @skrik
    , @Iris
  180. skrik says:
    @FB

    You’re really a hopeless case

    Ever heard the expression: The shoe is on the other foot? Aircraft fuselages have a ‘truss’ arrangement a bit like one of these building cranes we all see. Recall the 737 that lost a bit of the cabin? The a/c kept flying OK. Now, what would happen when the nose of some a/c hits the steel perimeter wall of a WTC? I’ll tell you, it would start to crumple and be slowed down, but not in an easy way. However, the slowing-down of the fuselage would be ‘communicated’ to the wings (recall inertia), which would start to fold – forwards, tending to break off. Similarly the tail-planes and fin, when they, being very light, reach ‘the wall,’ they would sort of splatter, and bits would fall to the ground. Sooo, show us a *credible* video of a plane hitting a WTC tower. Bet you can’t either, haw!

    • Replies: @FB
  181. FB says: • Website
    @skrik

    Look, I don’t mind discussing actual physics…but everything you just said is just gibberish…

    No…an airframe is not like a ‘truss’…

    And no, the wings and tail would NOT fall to the ground…even if they had disintegrated into a million pieces in the first moments of impact, they are still moving at a high speed and with much momentum and would continue on their trajectory…right through the holes that the SIX BILLION JOULES OF ENERGY would have punched in that totally meaningless egg crate structure on the outside of the building…

    If you choose to dispute any of that then go ahead and draw a FREE BODY diagram showing the forces, moments and reactions involved…including of course the vector values for momentum and its transfer in the collision…

    I [and the rest here await to see your work…]

    Otherwise buzz off…

    • Replies: @skrik
  182. Iris says:
    @FB

    Why don’t you go ahead and point us to ONE SINGLE EXAMPLE of a 767 ever breaking up in flight…?

    The benchmark for a 767 breaking in flight is Egypt Air 990 (EA990), which was reported to have entered a dive and accelerated to a peak speed of .99 Mach at 22,000 feet. Boeing sets maximum operating speeds for the 767 as 360 Knots and .86 Mach.

    The equivalent speed at which United 175 was allegedly flying towards the South Tower was 85 knots above the 425 knots equivalent speed at sea level that saw Egypt Air 990 break into pieces.

    It was impossible for United 175 to have achieved the purported speed and alleged attack on WTC2; the aircraft would have broken in-flight long before reaching the Tower.

    The PilotsFor9/11Truth association, who points at many such aberrations in the official narrative, is composed of experienced professional, both civilian and military, and covering all domains of aviation.

    The NTSB and FBI have refused to comment regarding the growing mountain of conflicting information uncovered by Pilots For Truth.

    http://pilotsfor911truth.org/credandexper.html

    • Replies: @FB
  183. Sparkon says:
    @Stochastic Determinist

    In the comment you link to, you (or the writer) discuss the idea that the Ong surname seems wrong for a black girl.

    Some years ago, a Chinese-American guy showed me a google images page full of photos of absolutely non-Asian white men with the name Ong.

    I think you’ve missed entirely the point of J. Revusky’s article I linked, but before I get to that, I must say this Ong-centered viewing activity you describe does seem rather curious, to say the least. Why the interest in and Google Image search for non-Asian white men with the name Ong, of all things?

    Hmm. Perhaps your friend was running some kind of swank gentleman’s escort service catering to kinky fetishes, or observing one of those very rare Chinese superstitions, or maybe you and your friend had more literary pursuits in mind, as improbable as that seems, and were looking for material or inspiration to match some easy rhymes for composing risqué limericks?

    But more seriously, I really can’t imagine what would have inspired or brought on this rather narrow selection filter for men named Ong, and so I’m reduced to wild and colorful guesswork now. Please feel free to clarify why you were looking at all those Ongs.

    Whatever the case, I come up pretty much empty when trying to duplicate your friend’s results with Google Images using the search argument “non-Asian white men with the name Ong.” Maybe there’s a secret level to Google Images, or some other trick to it, but more likely this is yet another apt illustration of Hot Gas on the Intertubes, disinformation not only known to be fetid, but also entirely capable of fortuitously decimating existential cranial anuses everywhere those hot winds of bologna breath rush and roar, so watch out for that.

    Well, the long and short of it is that famous AA11 stewardess Betty Ong on 9/11 was, by all accounts and all other photos of her, a Chinese-American and not an African-American. But the picture for Betty Ong in her high school yearbook shows a black gal, so that’s the issue. There is a glitch in the legend of Betty Ong.

    Sure, a black gal could have the name Betty Ong, no question about that, but Black Betty, as Revusky calls her, wasn’t a stew aboard American Airlines AA11 on 9/11, a stew babbling away, uncertain of, or reluctant to state, her flight number and her seat number.

    Jonathan Revusky made a bet of some kind about Betty Ong with Ron Unz, and Revusky’s article and the comments includes some of the acrimonious discussions surrounding the wager, and various interpretations of what the picture of Black Betty in the yearbook means.

    Was it a simple transpositioning mistake? That’s possible, but that explanation doesn’t work very well for two reasons. One, there is no plausible picture that looks like Betty Ong with the wrong name in that edition, and two, in earlier editions of the yearbook, there is no picture of a Chinese-American Betty Ong at all, and no further picture of Black Betty Ong either. At least that’s what I recall from the article and comments, but I’m certainly not going to wade through all that again, but you should.

    The famous Betty Ong was allegedly one of the flight attendants aboard American Airlines flight 11 on 9/11 when it seemed to have crashed into WTC 1, but there are a number of glaring problems with that entire phone conversation with Ong, starting with the fact that she called AA Reservations to report the skyjacking, which is about the last thing any trained FA would do in any kind of emergency.

    No wonder then that serious questions have arisen about whether or not Ong was really on AA11, given her flubbed performance, which is nothing like what we would expect from a trained flight attendant in that kind of emergency situation, and exactly like what we would expect from someone taking part in a paper exercise, or walk-through, someone probably not even on an airplane, but trying to wing it.

    Betty Ong: “We’re on Flight 11 right now.”

    Initially, Ong had said she was on Flight 12. Turn the page, and “right now” — “we’re” on Flight 11.

    There have been reports that the BTS database shows no take-off time and no tail number for either American Airlines Flight 11 or Flight 77 on 9/11/2001.

    The implication is that Flights AA 11 and AA 77 did not exist on September 11, 2001.

    http://www.serendipity.li/wot/aa_flts/aa_flts.htm

    Bottom line: Like many aspects of 9/11, the legends of Betty Ong and AA11 do not add up. The fact that Ms. Ong had an additional Chinese name, or alias, adds a further dimension to the mystery.

  184. Rurik says:
    @Carroll Price

    Unfortunately, a few dim-wits fall for it.

    well, the way I see it, is that if they’re sincere, and are participating in good faith, then I cut a lot of slack for mistakes and errors.

    I remember seeing a video of what looks like some of the WTC tower steel columns evaporating into dust. I have zero explanation for it, but if someone wants to say it was ‘directed energy weapons’, or mini-nukes or a hologram, then I won’t hold it against them if they’re wrong. So long as they’re open to the possibility that they might be mistaken.

    I believe there are lots of people of good faith, who’ve been snookered by guys like John Lear, into believing that there were no planes. And the reason I suspect that so many people are vulnerable to such tactics, is because we’re all so thoroughly lied-to at every moment of our lives, that a lot of people begin to suspect everything.

    But if there are certain fundamental truths that we all can agree on; like that building seven was an (obvious) controlled demolition, (which means the other ones were also), and that Israel knew exactly what was happening as it happened, and likely (obviously) orchestrated the whole thing with the complicity of the CIA and Bush administration at the highest levels, and the ((media)) as their Ministry of Truth, then the other stuff is just chaff and fluff. Minutia to be debated on technical threads for the engineer types to pour over.

    What we all know is that 9/11 was a false flag attack on America, and America’s icons, in order to use the heinous crime to motivate the American people into waging Eternal Wars on all of Israel’s many well-earned enemies.

    It was like a trusted ‘friend’, who comes into your home when your away and murders your family, in order to blame it on a neighbor, who he doesn’t like. ‘I saw him go into your house!’ “He came out with blood on his clothes!’

    So you go kill the man who ‘murdered your family’, and so your trusted neighbor (a psychopath lacking any conscience whatsoever), gets to see an innocent man he doesn’t like get murdered, and your life ruined, all with an unspeakable crime and an act of deception.

    “By way of deception thou shalt do war.”

    ~ Mossad’s motto.

    • Agree: Sam J.
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  185. @Sparkon

    Wow! It’s simple, really. My friend brought it up. Why? Ask him. (It’s his name.) And try searching for “John Ong.” It’s not so difficult as you make it sound.

    And my point was simply that Ong is not only an Asian name. Trivial, perhaps, but there you have it.

  186. FB says: • Website
    @Iris

    Look Iris…I’m not going to waste any more time on a complete know nothing like you…

    Everything you said is total BULLSHIT…

    Egyptair NEVER broke into pieces…I already pointed you to the NTSB report, which you have never even bothered to read…

    The DEMONSTRATED dive speed on the 767 is 425 knots, not 360…and I already posted the airplane data showing that…

    The 360 knots is the maximum speed in SMOOTH AIR…

    But you would have zero idea about why these technical details are important because YOU’RE NOT A PILOT…

    Stop wasting my time with your insanity and go seek professional help…

  187. @Rurik

    The bottom line is that the American people should have settled for nothing less than a thorough and open investigation into the facts. If the OJ trial could be broadcast live and in full then so should such an investigation into 9/11, but instead what they got was a ridiculous and nonsensical whitewash conducted behind closed doors by individuals and traitors with very dirty hands.

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @Rurik
  188. skrik says:
    @FB

    everything you just said is just gibberish…

    and you didn’t answer my challenge: Go ahead; should be easy, cite one single *credible* video of a b767 hitting a WTC tower. Bet you can’t/won’t again, kindly put up or shut up.

    • Replies: @FB
  189. FB says: • Website
    @skrik

    I already told you you have severe mental problems…

    I and many millions of people around the world watched live on TV as the second plane went in…

    • Replies: @skrik
  190. David Meiswinkle’s Interview completely corroborates Parry’s article here.

    • Replies: @Miro23
  191. tanabear says:
    @Calgacus

    In today’s world it is hard to tell who is a troll and who isn’t. Nevertheless there are some statements you made that are clearly false.

    Contrary to the 911 Truth’s lies, the Twin Towers were NOT designed to be resistant to the impact of airliners. It was speculated that they wouldn’t but the risk was thought to be so low and the expense so high that they weren’t designed to be.

    The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door — this intense grid — and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting”.
    Frank DeMartini, WTC Project Manager

    A white paper in the files of the Port Authority states,

    The buildings have been investigated and found to be safe in an assumed collision with a large jet airliner (Boeing 707—DC 8) traveling at 600 miles per hour. Analysis indicates that such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building and would not endanger the lives and safety of occupants not in the immediate area of impact.”

    • Thanks: annamaria, FB
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @FB
  192. Miro23 says:
    @Jon Baptist

    Like he says, it’s “… government treachery at the highest level”.

    That’s why the normal legal procedures are being blocked, why the evidence at the scene was removed, why important testimonies were blacked out etc. etc.

    Criminals embedded at the top of the power structure are difficult to deal with. They have the power of command/decision making, and subordinates are simply scared, and do what they’re told.

    All the same, the evidence of criminality surrounding 9/11 is now so overwhelming that they’re in trouble. Ready or not, they have to take absolute power and start arresting people (maybe somehow connected to this shutdown) or have their collaborators start to abandon this sinking ship.

    • Agree: Jon Baptist
  193. skrik says:
    @FB

    you have severe mental problems…

    Such remarks do not belong in any reasonable debate but are one of the surest signs of a troll.

    watched live on TV as the second plane went in

    Bully for MSM-TV, especially during the Hollywood-style psyop = 9/11 [and no live TV that I’m aware of showed an actual collision, all the shots were from the side or front]; *this* sort of thing is what you have to ‘explain’ [kindly without hand waving:]

    Recall Newton; the steel perimeter wall and the concrete floor-slabs all have their own inertia and would resist any intrusion on the ‘equal and opposite reaction’ basis.

    • Replies: @FB
  194. @tanabear

    I believe it is also the case that the 707 was actually heavier and carried more fuel than the 767 due to the use of less advanced materials in its construction and less efficient engines.

    • Replies: @FB
  195. FB says: • Website
    @tanabear

    Thanks for digging that up…

    So the building designer uses the analogy of a screen door being punctured by a pencil…an excellent analogy indeed…

    But of course the illiterate nutters here who don’t understand basic physics will have us believe that a screen door mesh could never be punctured by a pencil…LOL

    And now watch them come on here and ‘correct’ the building designer…

    This is EPIC…

    LOLOLOL

  196. Rurik says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    The bottom line is that the American people should have settled for nothing less than a thorough and open investigation into the facts. If the OJ trial could be broadcast live and in full then so should such an investigation into 9/11, but instead what they got was a ridiculous and nonsensical whitewash conducted behind closed doors by individuals and traitors with very dirty hands.

    as I just posted on another thread, what we got is exactly what we got with Waco, exactly as you say, even worse than ‘a whitewash conducted behind closed doors’. They didn’t even have any kind of investigation. They simply said ‘those people were whackos, and Koresh was molesting those children’

    And that was all it took. Then they scrubbed the entire scene of all forensic evidence (exactly like 9/11), promoted all the murderous goons responsible for the atrocity, and called it a day.

    The American sheople put their collective heads down, and set about chewing their cud like good little cowards.

    And by doing so, they set in motion 9/11, because just like with the 2008 economic global looting, (and the Great Depression global looting and the S&L looting before it), when they’re able to get away with these epic acts of treachery, rapine and mass-murder, they simply figure to themselves, the American people will put up with ANYTHING, so long as ((we)) control the narrative. So God only knows what they have in mind next, since the American people have gone full-on head in the sand- bovine vis-a-vis 9/11.

    If you asked them, do you really want to know what happened on that day, and who was responsible?

    I suspect most of them would opt for craven blissful ignorance, than harsh reality. And that’s not just Americans, but Canadians and Brits and yes, even Aussies too. I see all it took for the Kiwis to crawl on their knees to deliver themselves over to the fiend, was an idiotic fake video of some lunatic shooting up a Mosque.

    The state of Western “man” these days, is a sniveling worm. But perhaps that’s not fair to actual worms, who are known to ‘turn’ at some point in time. Not so the Western “man”.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/new-zealanders-face-5-years-jail-not-handing-banned-firearms

  197. Derer says:
    @Sam J.

    “you have no business even commenting at all.”

    Sorry, I have to respond to your hallucinations. Better experts than your quackery resolutely refuted the possibility of plane speed (500, 600 – educate yourself) at such a low altitude. You have no business even commenting at all!

  198. Iris says:

    A short and pedagogical video, courtesy of Pilots for 9/11 Truth, explaining why it was impossible for any pilot, let alone the alleged terrorists, to have crashed 767 aircrafts into the Towers.

    Each building had a width about the size of the aircrafts’ wing span, making it a very narrow target impossible to hit at the alleged 500 knots speed the “planes” were allegedly flying at.

    The experiment to crash onto the WTC was made by a team of professional pilots on flight simulator, using a more manoeuvrable 737. They only way they could hit a Tower was to slow down the plane at landing speed.

  199. FB says: • Website
    @NoseytheDuke

    The 707 is a little lighter than a 767, about 150 tons, versus about 200 tons…both carry similar amounts of fuel…

    The Douglas DC8 is about the same as a 707…both were among the first generation of passenger jets…

    However the 911 planes were carrying only about half fuel and a very light pax load, so would have actually been very close to a fully loaded 767 or DC8…

    Important point is that the building would in no way be in danger of coming down after an airplane impact…the screen and pencil analogy is right on…

    The pencil will of course easily penetrate, but the screen stays intact, except for a small hole…

    • Replies: @tanabear
  200. FB says: • Website
    @skrik

    Gee…that looks just like a pencil puncturing a screen…

    LOLOLOL

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @skrik
  201. “.…explaining why it was impossible for any pilot, let alone the alleged terrorists, to have crashed 767 aircrafts into the Towers.

    The only reasonable conclusion from their explanations points to a remotely controlled and structurally enhanced aircraft having been electronically guided into the towers by means of installed equipment inside the tower and connected to the customized aircraft’s guidance system through interactive communications just prior to impact. The right wingtip of the second plane that hit the south tower nearly chopped off the corner beam.

    This basic concept of electronic control superiority versus a skilled human operator is not much different with modern cars. Nowadays electronically controlled double clutch engine transmissions can shift more quickly and efficiently than the best race car drivers. Consequently, high-end sports cars do not have manual clutches, though some may still offer it as an option for nostalgists.

    • Replies: @Iris
  202. Iris says:
    @FB

    Gee…that looks just like a pencil puncturing a screen…

    You either don’t understand or misrepresent what this statement was meant to say

    It was made by the manager of the construction company, Franck De Martini, to explain that a plane crash nowhere had the power to allegedly weaken a Tower’s structure and favour its subsequent collapse by office fires.

    This statement was about how strong the steel structure was, not about whether a flimsy aluminium plane can penetrate a sturdy steel structure.

  203. Iris says:
    @Been_there_done_that

    The only reasonable conclusion from their explanations points to a remotely controlled and structurally enhanced aircraft

    What is proved as certain by engineering knowledge is that, because of the limits in dynamic pressure an aircraft can withstand, a 767 could not have been flown at 500 knots, at sea level, without breaking in-flight.
    The dynamic pressure exerted by the surrounding air would have been too important for the fuselage.

    Physics and engineering rule out that what we “see” in the 9/11 videos is a real B767.

    Regarding the “remotely controlled aircraft” possibility, we can only make speculations, but using common sense, it presents two major objections:

    – The videos are indisputably fake. There is no way anything can penetrate a steel façade to such extent without any debris flowing in the process, or any explosion happening on impact. The WTC2 “plane” video is an insult to basic common sense.

    – Using a remotely controlled aircraft would have carried the risk of members of the public picking up incriminating debris with rogue spare parts, which would have become hard evidence of a conspiracy and of a crime against humanity. It was a risk the perpetrators could not take.

    There were no “planes”; they were Computer Generated Imagery.

    • Replies: @Max Parry
  204. Max Parry says:
    @Iris

    So the wreckage of the plane engine, wheel and other debris that landed on Murray street was all staged? I really hope the feds are the ones who spread this “no planes” bullshit and people aren’t actually this dumb.

    • Replies: @Iris
  205. Iris says:
    @Max Parry

    So the wreckage of the plane engine, wheel and other debris that landed on Murray street was all staged?

    I am very surprised that an investigative journalist asks such question, in such manner.

    On the particulars, of which you are poorly informed: the alleged landing gear from 9/11, found in April 2013, was located narrowly wedged between two buildings, with a rope strung around it.

    It first seemed impossible to extract the landing gear without partly demolishing the buildings, so its very clear that the rope had been used to lower the landing gear where it was found.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=157&v=1j7_CL0KgrQ&feature=emb_logo

    In general: In every comment I posted on your thread, I have taken a great care to provide specific information, facts and sources so the readers can verify for themselves. One of my sources is an association of American pilots whom we have no reason to think are less patriotic than you are.

    Your only reply to my arguments is to call me a shill.

    Well, I tell you what Mr Parry, if we are in name-calling and no-argument mode, it can be considered equally possible that you are the shill trolling for Israel and diverting attention towards the low-level Saudi henchmen. Have a good day listening to yourself.

  206. tanabear says:
    @FB

    Yes.

    And another factor to consider is not just the mass of the airplanes, but their speed or velocity.

    American Airlines Flight 11 was traveling at ~ 473mph.
    United Airlines Flight 175 was traveling at ~ 566mph.

    Kinetic energy, the energy of motion, is one-half the mass times velocity squared. So it goes up with the square of velocity. The white paper from the Port Authority was regarding, “a large jet airliner (Boeing 707—DC 8) traveling at 600 miles per hour.” I haven’t done the exact calculations, but it is likely the the force of impact of a fully loaded 707 traveling at 600mph would have been comparable to the actual impacts of Flight 11 and Flight 175. So despite “debunker” claims to the contrary, the Towers were designed to withstand such an event.

    Structural engineer Charlie Thornton stated in a 1998 interview regarding the Twin Towers,

    “…13,000 tons is a lot of force. People always talk about an airplane crashing into a building. And in 1944 or 45 a plane did crash into the Empire State Building. But the largest aircraft flying today, at least commercially, the 747, fully loaded, is on the order of 300 tons. So if you think about a 300 ton element crashing into a building that’s been designed to carry 13,000 tons you can see that an aircraft crashing into the World Trade Center would probably not do anything to the major building. It could affect localized structural elements, could knock out a column, and there could be some damage. But as far as plane knocking a building over of that type, that would not happen.”

  207. Max Parry says:
    @Iris

    I’m not referring to wreckage found years later, I’m referring to the debris from Flight 175 on the day of seen on Murray street which apparently you aren’t even aware of. Some of it can be seen here @6:58:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo8gCp2mbs8#t=7m45s

  208. @Iris

    I stopped reading Max Parry articles a while ago, I just stopped by here for the comments on this one.

    I think that we could all agree (other than the coincidence theorists) that a combination of types of explosives were employed to bring down WTC 1,2 and at least 7 and possibly more on 9/11/2001. I can’t help thinking that actually using real aircraft to crash into WTC 1 and 2 would risk jeopardising the success of such elaborate detonation systems and even result in exposing the plot, a very risky scenario. I still can’t image that nothing of the planes would fall to the ground and I’ve yet to see any convincing pics of any, including Max’s lame effort.

    I found the September Clues video quite convincing and tend to lean towards the no plane theory myself. It is very hard to see anything in the skies from the ground in Manhattan, surrounded by such tall buildings so close together. There are clips on YouTube where pranksters play sounds of a car skidding and crashing and unsuspecting people run for their lives. I wonder if on hearing such sounds, followed by a big explosion, many people may record that they had “seen it happen”.

    I really do think that we should be cautious in putting too much weight on any explanation might interfere with the righteous call for a new, thorough and open investigation, which should be the goal but I still need a believable explanation for the long-lasting intense heat and I can only come up with fission.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @onebornfree
  209. skrik says:
    @FB

    looks just like a pencil

    No, what it looks like is a dodgy disinfo-agent denying/deflecting evidence.

    As Iris has well pointed out [thanks for the VG DIAGRAM vid], there is a problem with the alleged UA175’s [way too high for a 767] approach speed. Also, there’s the ‘physics violation’ illustrated by the ‘gif extract’ of the Hezarkhani vid that I posted. Then, there are the ‘missing’ a/c parts, like the wing-spar/undercarriage/engines combo that I say should have been recovered from the rubble-pile.

    These are legitimate questions.

    FB has ‘dissembled’ on each of these critical questions; thanks for *nothing*, FB [say, who’s your paymaster?]

  210. Sparkon says:

    I hate to be the one breaking it to you Mr. Parry, but I’d say there are obvious indications in the photos themselves that your cherished engine part found near Church & Murray streets was planted on 9/11.

    Yes, the jet engine from a 767 is much larger than a man, so this piece of engine — if it even came from a 767 — has a rather mysterious past, since it is apparently the only subassembly from the engine that survived its penetration of WTC 2, and its flaming passage through the air for about 1700 ft. before it came to rest ever so gently in its balanced position on the sidewalk of New York, but not before it knocked the street sign off its pole without damaging the pole itself.

    It must be black magic, or at least selective destruction, eh? How did that work?


    AP Photo/Lucian Mihaesteanu

    Even more mysterious than that engine part is the piece of landing gear and tire that came to rest elsewhere on 9/11 with all the rubber on the tire still intact, and not even scorched, smudged, or charred.


    Landing gear found at the corner of West and Rector streets
    Photo: Cryptome

    So tell us please Mr. Parry, in your opinion, how did that rubber tire make it all the way through WTC 1 on 9/11 virtually intact and without melting?

    And while you’re at it, how did that engine part land on a sidewalk, under scaffolding without smashing the concrete or damaging anything else but the sign, and then come to rest standing on its end?

    And, for bonus points, where’s the rest of the jet engine?

    If this part of the engine made it through the WTC 2 inferno where the plane seemed to crash, then surely the rest of the engine should have made it through the building too, and turned up somewhere close to Church and Murray streets, but zilch.

  211. Iris says:
    @Max Parry

    The video you posted should be analysed by an investigative journalist, not just posted for indiscriminate consumption by the gullible “goy sheeple”. We’ve had enough of that, thank you very much.

    What I see from 06:58 is a wide piece of mechanical gear which has somehow managed to find its way across a narrow passageway delineated by scaffolding vertical support beams which don’t show any sign of damage and are not even significantly scratched.

    Furthermore, there are no sign of floor impact, neither on the asphalt of the street, nor on the floor of the sidewalk, that could explain how the alleged debris could have changed trajectory, from a vertical fall to a horizontal movement and manage to pass horizontally underneath the scaffolding. How did it get there? Levitation?

    The very fact that “evidence” is being planted years after the events, such as a landing gear being dropped with a rope circa 2013, is proof that the Saudis clowns were only insignificant pawns in the 9/11 tragedy. It is not Saudis who control Manhattan.

    • Replies: @Max Parry
  212. @Max Parry

    ,,,debris from Flight 175,,,

    Yes, of course that is clearly a destroyed jet engine core at the corner at Murray Street between 7:46 and 7:54 minutes in the video; this shows it flew roughly another five blocks upon exiting the building. I had seen that image a few times already. Obviously all the previously attached compressor and turbine blades would have detached from the core by the time it had fallen to the ground.

    However, what I find more interesting, given that I never ever doubted that a jet aircraft had hit the tower, is what follows only a few seconds later in the video, at 8:00 minutes. Note the police officer is publicly passing on part of the operational script, which had transpired through superiors down to his level:

    That’s what they said…another plane might be coming.”

    Of course he was referring to the plane that was supposed to have crashed into Building 7. As we all know, that part of the operation had to be aborted.

  213. Iris says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    I really do think that we should be cautious in putting too much weight on any explanation might interfere with the righteous call for a new, thorough and open investigation

    Thanks ever so much for your wisdom and common sense.

    You are perfectly right regarding the above.
    But in a discussion on 9/11 or any other similar matter, not all arguments are equal.
    Just like in a court of justice, there is a hierarchy in the category of arguments provided, in the following order: 1) natural laws of Physics are above everything else as they cannot be evaded by human tricks, 2) then Engineering laws, which are just a limited application of physics, 3) then expert opinions, 4) than collective common sense, 5) then individual’s opinion in the lowest, most inferior position.

    Hierarchy implies superiority: a Category 2 argument can only be challenged by another argument of the same category or above, 2 or 1 respectively.

    Scientists who state that there should have been no molten steel in the WTC rubble because there is nothing in offices that can burn at steel melting point do so based on an invariable law of Physics called the 2nd principle of Thermodynamics. (A category 1, superlative-degree argument).

    People who calculate the heat release from the WTC rubble do so based on an immutable law of Physics called the heat transfer by natural convection (Category 1, as well).

    Academics who establish a failure mode for WTC7 using state-of-the-art civil engineering design software, proving that it came down by controlled demolition provide a Category 2, extremely strong argument

    Pilots who state that the 9/11 alleged “planes” could not have flown at the speed shown on the videos base their opinion on Engineering knowledge and experimentation (Category 2).

    People who say that they “saw” planes flying on News videos provide only their personal opinion, a category 5 argument and the weakest of all.

    As we the public have no way of verifying whether the News videos were genuine, the question should not be whether the planes were real or not, but whether it is possible to “film” a staged plane attack, with two main camera teams (Hezarkhani and Naudet), twenty fake witnesses, and the complicity of all the MSM which income depends on publicity. Anybody who thinks this is not possible is a gullible goy.

    The 9/11 videos being possibly faked has been shown many times:
    – by the shooting where the “plane” pokes it nose the other side of WTC2 before retracting inside.
    – by videos showing plane/no plane explosions, including a Chopper 4 shooting that was aired live on the morning news without plane, and then broadcast in the afternoon this time with a plane.

    While these fake videos are only Category 5 proof, they are a sufficient rebuttal to the other Category 5 “evidence” of people having “seen the planes” on TV. With kind regards.

  214. Max Parry says: • Website
    @Iris

    Assuming there were no witnesses to this falling debris, how was it planted in broad daylight without anyone in lower Manhattan noticing? I am losing brain cells reading your comments.

    • LOL: FB
    • Replies: @Iris
  215. Iris says:
    @Max Parry

    how was it planted in broad daylight without anyone in lower Manhattan noticing?

    One can only speculate, but it would be relatively easy to do.

    The location underneath a scaffolding is too implausible and very suspicious, so maybe the scaffolding was needed to stage the scene and plant the engine part in the first place.

    The perpetrator dressed as a construction worker brings the wrapped up engine part and wheel in the dark hours on that morning, on a Hiab truck, and drops them using the embedded loader crane far underneath the scaffolding, so as to leave a narrow space on the walkway and not attract attention by blocking access.

    He then sets movable fences with opaque mesh around the parts, the type always used on worksites, and unwraps the wreckage which is now hidden inside a restricted construction area. Nobody will notice temporary fencing next to a scaffolding, people will just walk around.

    When the explosions blow up the top of WTC1, people rush towards that direction to see what is happening. The perpetrator moves the worksite fences aside and away and kicks the wheel further. That’s it. One single person could have done it.

    Of all the thousands of people present that day, the finding of the engine part was filmed by no-else than the ubiquitous Naudet brothers.

    PilotsFor9/11 Truth have a more serious technical objection, which I haven’t had the time to fully research. The WTC2 plane had engines of the Pratt&Witney JT9d-7R4D type, but the wreckage photo showed a set of high pressure engine cooling ducts (TOBI ducts) corresponding to a different mechanical gear, and not used by UA on their B767 aircrafts.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  216. @Iris

    Wow! That was a real eye-opener for me and made me realise just how little I do know about the attacks. Thanks.

    • Thanks: Iris
    • Replies: @paranoid goy
  217. Sparkon says:

    I want to return again to the eyewitnesses, especially those who claim to have seen an airplane fly into the WTC on 9/11. As with all tangled webs, it can be shown that the parts don’t fit, especially the parts put into the record at the very beginning, in this case, the preliminary, rush transcript compiled by CNN.

    It was CNN anchor Carol Lin who broke into scheduled programming at 8:48 am on 9/11/2001, and made the initial public announcement that a plane had crashed into the WTC.

    CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: This just in. You are looking at obviously a very disturbing live shot there. That is the World Trade Center, and have unconfirmed reports this morning that a plane has crashed into one of the towers of the World Trade Center.
    […]
    Right now we’ve got Sean Murtagh — he is a CNN producer — on the telephone.

    Lin’s “unconfirmed reports” originated from one of its own producers, Sean Murtagh, who began his live, unconfirmed report somewhat unsteadily, saying he was “standing on” the vice-president of finance for CNN, so perhaps Murtagh had just killed him, but I think he meant to say that he was “standing in for” the vice president of finance, but that raises even further questions, given what he was about to say:

    MURTAGH: I just witnessed a plane that appeared to be cruising at slightly lower-than-normal altitude over New York City, and it appears to have crashed into — I don’t know which tower it is — but it hit directly in the middle of one of the World Trade Center towers.

    LIN: Sean, what kind of plane was it? Was it a small plane, a jet?

    MURTAGH: It was a jet. It looked like a two-engine jet, maybe a 737.

    LIN: You are talking about a large passenger commercial jet.

    MURTAGH: A large passenger commercial jet.

    LIN: Where were you when you saw this?

    MURTAGH: I am on the 21st floor of 5 Penn Plaza.

    LIN: Did it appear that the plane was having any difficulty flying?

    MURTAGH: Yes, it did. It was teetering back and forth, wingtip to wingtip, and it looks like it crashed into, probably, 20 stories from the top of the World Trade Center, maybe the 80th to 85th floor. There is smoke billowing out of the World Trade Center.

    So Murtagh claims that the 767 he saw was “teetering back and forth, wingtip to wingtip” which seems like the way an ignorant Hollywood scriptwriter would describe an airplane trying to zero in on its target, but in reality this maneuver most likely would have torn the wings off the aircraft at that speed down at 1,000 feet, and certainly would have complicated the task of the imaginary Arabs flying that imaginary aircraft to hit the very narrow target of the WTC Twin Towers.

    No wonder Lin called the report “unconfirmed.” A little later, she went on to say:

    LIN: For our viewers who are just tuning in right now, you are looking at live picture of the World Trade Center tower, where, according to eyewitness Sean Murtagh — he is the vice president of finance and eyewitness to what he describes as a twin-engine plane — or possibly a 737 passenger jet — flying into the World Trade Center. It appears to be still embedded inside the building.

    Well, questions may remain exactly how he did it, but in the course of his unconfirmed report on 9/11, airplane eyewitness Sean Murtagh became the new vice president of finance for CNN.

  218. @FB

    Relax yourself. The science you bring to the subject did not include reading anything I said, yet you attack me with nonsense, so I assume you get paid for that. Okay, but let me LOL with Iris there, while I also tel Duke about those nukes.
    I never said nuffin’ ’bout no nukes or holograms, so your standard boilerplate counterintelligence speech is irrelevant.
    You can make a servicable knife or chisel from rebar, your science has never been on a building site, and yes, there were thick steel beams of the same material, but even your front steps should contain rebar, scientist!
    Airliners will too penetrate that building, mostly as little bits of scrap metal. Jet engines run on purified kerosene, it does not melt nothing. And where do you get the’bouncing off’ nonsense from? Your boilerplate-intellectualism shining through again?
    I’m done with this guy, Duke, see your post for my comment, I promise to entertain you.

  219. @NoseytheDuke

    So, Iris, I see your LOLs at FB were possibly not at me. Duke, about those nukes; I came across a site the other day that makes sense. I have denied the existence of “industrial nukes” from day one, but I resrve the right to be convinced otherwise. Still, some people swear they found (short-lived) radiation on that site. We know it was done with thermite, which could also have used radioactive ingredients. Like Uranium, very, very fierce burning stuff that. First I must ask what you know about Depleted Uraium.
    https://greenpets.co.za/index.php/en/12-paranoid-goy/145-depleted-uranium
    Then there is the issue of stabilisation of skyskrapers. This is done by hanging a heavy mass from shock absorbers and/or springs near the top of the structure. They are called ‘Dampers’, and the heavier the material you use to make that weight from, the smaller you can make it, the less space you waste. What is the heaviest scrap metal on earth? Depleted uranium! Uranium burns like magnesium. a few tons of uranium falling into an explosive fire and boom! You have a radioactive pile of metal burning in a pool for days…
    You did get that it was a planned and professional demolitian, yes?
    https://greenpets.co.za/index.php/en/32-paranoid-goy/economics/109-911-wayleave
    But they could not even be bothered to remove the hazardous stuff first.
    Oh, wait, hazardous building materials from bottom to top was one of the reasons for the demolition in the first place…

  220. Geowhizz says:
    @Ponderer

    I’ve considered that as well. WTC built about 50 years ago. People thinking like that then?

    • Replies: @Iris
  221. Iris says:
    @Geowhizz

    WTC built about 50 years ago. People thinking like that then?

    Of course they did: including an effective method of controlled demolition to the planning application would have been mandatory, even in the late 60’s , especially for buildings such as the Twin Towers that were exceptional in size and design for the time. No building is built to last forever, with a typical lifetime being 100 years.

    The requirement to provide a embedded demolition feature would have been even more crucial in the regulators’ mind because of the issues demolishing the Singer Building.

    The Singer Building was an iconic NY tower whose owners decided to demolish because it offered too little office space compared to its footprint. It was purchased for demolition in 1964, but it took another 3 years to devise a demolition method, which could not be found as the building ended up being manually demolished, which took another 1.5 years.

    This was the context in which the Twin Towers were approved for construction, so you bet that future demolition was a burning topic.

    Until the controlled demolition of the Twin Towers, the Singer Building was the tallest building to have ever been demolished.

  222. onebornfree says: • Website
    @NoseytheDuke

    “I found the September Clues video quite convincing”

    Here’s one of the September Clues series of videos that you may not have seen, because for years now it keeps getting banned from YT, [then reposted]. It reveals that all of the MSM broadcasts mysteriously broadcast the exact same images at the exact same time on a number of occasions that morning, and yet the plane strike, [Fl. 175 into wtc2] differs by around 3 secs. station to station.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p4VH7SmIZg

    Regards, onebornfree
    My own 9/11 research site: http://onebornfrees911researchreview.blogspot.com/

  223. Sam J. says:
    @skrik

    Here’s one.

    I wanted to make sure you were answered but the reason you ask is not proof. You want to argue endlessly about phantom planes instead of the better information available to waste peoples time. The reason you are pushing this is so that people will think that anyone who says 9-11 was a set up will be lumped with people who make outlandish claims. People like you. You also wish to argue endlessly on stuff that is really not necessary to prove the case. The single best data point we have is building 7 falling as if only “air” held it up. It may even be that some of the planes were photoshopped. It may even be that some of the planes were actually military and not civilian planes at all but IT DOESN’T MATTER and it would be difficult to prove this case but building 7 is EASY. No sweat. There’s NO way a building can fall as it did with no support unless it was demoed out from under it in some manner. It’s perfectly fine to make a case that there were planes photoshopped but not that every single case was because it doesn’t appear this is true. I suspect STRONGLY that you are a Jew Hasbara paid to create disinformation and cause turmoil and dysfunction. After all this a large part of what Jews do and Jews seem to have a certain way of arguing about things that sticks out after you’ve observed it for a while and you fit that pattern.

  224. 5 buildings in NYC were imploded that day. Building 5 & 6, along with 1, 2, & 7. Buildings’ 5 and 6 had their cores imploded from below, the cores then falling into their basements.

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