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I’m very pleased to announce that our selection of HTML Books now contains works by renowned World War II historian David Irving, including his magisterial Hitler’s War, named by famed military historian Sir John Keegan as one of the most crucial volumes for properly understanding that conflict.

ORDER IT NOW

With many millions of his books in print, including a string of best-sellers translated into numerous languages, it’s quite possible that the eighty-year-old Irving today ranks as the most internationally-successful British historian of the last one hundred years. Although I myself have merely read a couple of his shorter works, I found these absolutely outstanding, with Irving regularly deploying his remarkable command of the primary source documentary evidence to totally demolish my naive History 101 understanding of major historical events. It would hardly surprise me if the huge corpus of his writings eventually constitutes a central pillar upon which future historians seek to comprehend the catastrophically bloody middle years of our hugely destructive twentieth century even after most of our other chroniclers of that era are long forgotten.

Carefully reading a thousand-page reconstruction of the German side of the Second World War is obviously a daunting undertaking, and his remaining thirty-odd books would probably add at least another 10,000 pages to that Herculean task. But fortunately, Irving is also a riveting speaker, and several of his extended lectures of recent decades are conveniently available on YouTube, as given below. These effectively present many of his most remarkable revelations concerning the wartime policies of both Winston Churchill and Adolf Hitler, as well as sometimes recounting the challenging personal situation he himself faced. Watching these lectures may consume several hours, but that is still a trivial investment compared to the many weeks it would take to digest the underlying books themselves.

When confronted with astonishing claims that completely overturn an established historical narrative, considerable skepticism is warranted, and my own lack of specialized expertise in World War II history left me especially cautious. The documents Irving unearths seemingly portray a Winston Churchill so radically different from that of my naive understanding as to be almost unrecognizable, and this naturally raised the question of whether I could credit the accuracy of Irving’s evidence and his interpretation. All his material is massively footnoted, referencing copious documents in numerous official archives, but how could I possibly muster the time or energy to verify them?

Rather ironically, an extremely unfortunate turn of events seems to have fully resolved that crucial question.

 

Irving is an individual of uncommonly strong scholarly integrity, and as such he is unable to see things in the record that do not exist, even if it were in his considerable interest to do so, nor to fabricate non-existent evidence. Therefore, his unwillingness to dissemble or pay lip-service to various widely-worshiped cultural totems eventually provoked an outpouring of vilification by a swarm of ideological fanatics drawn from a particular ethnic persuasion. This situation was rather similar to the troubles my old Harvard professor E.O. Wilson had experienced around that same time upon publication of his own masterwork Sociobiology: The New Synthesis, the book that helped launch the field of modern human evolutionary psychobiology.

These zealous ethnic-activists began a coordinated campaign to pressure Irving’s prestigious publishers into dropping his books, while also disrupting his frequent international speaking tours and even lobbying countries to bar him from entry. They also maintained a drumbeat of media vilification, continually blackening his name and his research skills, even going so far as to denounce him as a “Nazi” and a “Hitler-lover,” just as had similarly been done in the case of Prof. Wilson.

During the 1980s and 1990s, these determined efforts, sometimes backed by considerable physical violence, increasingly bore fruit, and Irving’s career was severely impacted. He had once been feted by the world’s leading publishing houses and his books serialized and reviewed in Britain’s most august newspapers; now he gradually became a marginalized figure, almost a pariah, with enormous damage to his sources of income.

ORDER IT NOW

In 1993, Deborah Lipstadt, a rather ignorant and fanatic professor of Theology and Holocaust Studies (or perhaps “Holocaust Theology”) ferociously attacked him in her book as being a “Holocaust Denier,” leading Irving’s timorous publisher to suddenly cancel the contract for his major new historical volume. This development eventually sparked a rancorous lawsuit in 1998, which resulted in a celebrated 2000 libel trial held in British Court.

That legal battle was certainly a David-and-Goliath affair, with wealthy Jewish movie producers and corporate executives providing a huge war-chest of $13 million to Lipstadt’s side, allowing her to fund a veritable army of 40 researchers and legal experts, captained by one of Britain’s most successful Jewish divorce lawyers. By contrast, Irving, being an impecunious historian, was forced to defend himself without benefit of legal counsel.

In real life unlike in fable, the Goliaths of this world are almost invariably triumphant, and this case was no exception, with Irving being driven into personal bankruptcy, resulting in the loss of his fine central London home. But seen from the longer perspective of history, I think the victory of his tormenters was a remarkably Pyrrhic one.

ORDER IT NOW

Although the target of their unleashed hatred was Irving’s alleged “Holocaust denial,” as near as I can tell, that particular topic was almost entirely absent from all of Irving’s dozens of books, and exactly that very silence was what had provoked their spittle-flecked outrage. Therefore, lacking such a clear target, their lavishly-funded corps of researchers and fact-checkers instead spent a year or more apparently performing a line-by-line and footnote-by-footnote review of everything Irving had ever published, seeking to locate every single historical error that could possibly cast him in a bad professional light. With almost limitless money and manpower, they even utilized the process of legal discovery to subpoena and read the thousands of pages in his bound personal diaries and correspondence, thereby hoping to find some evidence of his “wicked thoughts.” Denial, a 2016 Hollywood film co-written by Lipstadt, may provide a reasonable outline of the sequence of events as seen from her perspective.

ORDER IT NOW

Yet despite such massive financial and human resources, they apparently came up almost entirely empty, at least if Lipstadt’s triumphalist 2005 book History on Trial may be credited. Across four decades of research and writing, which had produced numerous controversial historical claims of the most astonishing nature, they only managed to find a couple of dozen rather minor alleged errors of fact or interpretation, most of these ambiguous or disputed. And the worst they discovered after reading every page of the many linear meters of Irving’s personal diaries was that he had once composed a short “racially insensitive” ditty for his infant daughter, a trivial item which they naturally then trumpeted as proof that he was a “racist.” Thus, they seemingly admitted that Irving’s enormous corpus of historical texts was perhaps 99.9% accurate.

I think this silence of “the dog that didn’t bark” echoes with thunderclap volume. I’m not aware of any other academic scholar in the entire history of the world who has had all his decades of lifetime work subjected to such painstakingly exhaustive hostile scrutiny. And since Irving apparently passed that test with such flying colors, I think we can regard almost every astonishing claim in all of his books—as recapitulated in his videos—as absolutely accurate.

 

Aside from this important historical conclusion, I believe that the most recent coda to Irving’s tribulations tells us quite a lot about the true nature of “Western liberal democracy” so lavishly celebrated by our media pundits, and endlessly contrasted with the “totalitarian” or “authoritarian” characteristics of its ideological rivals, past and present.

In 2005, Irving took a quick visit to Austria, having been invited to speak before a group of Viennese university students. Shortly after his arrival, he was arrested at gunpoint by the local Political Police on charges connected with some historical remarks he had made 16 years earlier on a previous visit to that country, although those had apparently been considered innocuous at the time. Initially, his arrest was kept secret and he was held completely incommunicado; for his family back in Britain, he seemed to have disappeared off the face of the earth, and they feared him dead. More than six weeks were to pass before he was allowed to communicate with either his wife or a lawyer, though he managed to provide word of his situation earlier through an intermediary.

ORDER IT NOW

And at the age of 67 he was eventually brought to trial in a foreign courtroom under very difficult circumstances and given a three-year prison sentence. An interview he gave to the BBC about his legal predicament resulted in possible additional charges, potentially carrying a further twenty-year sentence, which probably would have ensured that he died behind bars. Only the extremely good fortune of a successful appeal, partly on technical grounds, allowed him to depart the prison grounds after spending more than 400 days under incarceration, almost entirely in solitary confinement, and he escaped back to Britain.

His sudden, unexpected disappearance had inflicted huge financial hardships upon his family, and they lost their home, with most of his personal possessions being sold or destroyed, including the enormous historical archives he had spent a lifetime accumulating. He later recounted this gripping story in Banged Up, a slim book published in 2008, as well as in a video interview available on YouTube.

Perhaps I am demonstrating my ignorance, but I am not aware of any similar case of a leading international scholar who suffered such a dire fate for quietly stating his historical opinions, even during in darkest days of Stalinist Russia or any of the other totalitarian regimes of the twentieth century. Although this astonishing situation taking place in a West European democracy of the “Free World” did receive considerable media exposure within Europe, coverage in our own country was so minimal that I doubt that today even one well-educated American in twenty is even aware it ever happened.

One reason that most of us still believe that the West remains a free society is that Our American Pravda works so hard to conceal the important exceptions.

 
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  1. FKA Max says: • Website

    Fantastic new addition to the website, Mr. Unz!

    I have heard the claim before, which makes sense to me, that the reason David Irving was imprisoned in Austria and was dealt such a relatively severe sentence for thinking and spreading “bad thoughts” was that the Austrians had/have a guilty conscience because they had/have not confronted their NS past and crimes sufficiently, yet.

    On 11 November 2005, the Austrian police in the southern state of Styria, acting under the 1989 warrant, arrested Irving.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving#Life_after_libel_suit

    At that time the legal dispute over the rightful ownership of the famous Gustav Klimt paintings was also going on. Maybe Irving was imprisoned to distract from that corruption and embarrassment?

    Schoenberg gave evidence before them in September 2005 and, in January 2006, they delivered their judgement. They stated that five of the six paintings in question should be returned to the Bloch-Bauer estate, as outlined in Ferdinand’s will; only the Portrait of Amalie Zuckerkandl was to be retained by the gallery.
    [...]
    The paintings were exported from Austria in March 2006 and exhibited together at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art from April to June that year.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portrait_of_Adele_Bloch-Bauer_I#1945.E2.80.93present

    https://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/austrians-vote-against-muslim-anschluss-get-called-nazis/#comment-2051937

    British historian convicted of denying the Holocaust, sentenced to 3 years

    David Irving arrest in Austria.

    Source: https://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/austrians-vote-against-muslim-anschluss-get-called-nazis/#comment-2053875

  2. JackOH says:

    Ron, thanks for publishing David Irving. I’ve only read two or three early books of his, but recall reading favorable reviews in mainstream publications of several others. I don’t recall any denial by Irving that Jews were subject to atrocities under the Nazi regime. That Lipstadt trial thing was sort of background noise for me at the time it was happening. I had no idea about the depth or extent of the hit job against Irving until reading about it just now on these pages.

    “Perhaps one reason that most of us still believe that the West remains a free society is that Our American Pravda works so hard to conceal the important exceptions.” You know how to turn a phrase, Ron, that’s for sure. All is sunshine-y in the free, democratic West. Except where it isn’t.

    FWIW-As a college student, I read A. J. P. Taylor’s Origins of the Second World War around 1972. I was numb afterward. I’d believed in the frothing-at-the-mouth Hitler and the mad-for-war German generals. I was really wrong.

  3. It is worth noting that all of these Youtube celebrities making noise about freedom of speech, seemingly have nothing to say about the disturbing fact that several European countries have laws mandating a certain – if vague – interpretation of historiographical data. Britain is now planning to pass similar laws.

    If you cannot even mention people like Irving or Ursula Haverbeck, you have no business calling yourself a free speech advocate. Kudos to Ron Unz for publishing a defensorat of Irving.

    More or less by coincidence(!), I happen to have read almost all of the trial transcripts and the impression I was left with was as Ron explains in the above: Irving had a peer review from Hell and passed with flying colours.

    • Agree: eah, Harbinger
    • Replies: @Wally
  4. I hope Mr. Irving is aware of your courageous support and is comforted by it, after suffering so much abuse instigated by The Tribe.

    • Replies: @Jake
  5. I think it’s worth pointing out that many of Irving’s book have long been available for free download at his own website: http://www.fpp.co.uk/

    You ought to have made it clear that it was Irving who initiated the Lipstadt court case, even if his work, not hers, become almost the exclusive focus of the trial. If he had concentrated solely on those matters of fact where Lipstadt’s allegations were clearly libelous, he may even have won the case, or her publishers, Penguin, I think, may have settled.

    By contrast, Irving, being an impecunious historian, was forced to defend himself without benefit of legal counsel.

    Not sure about this. Certainly he had limited resources, but the suspicion is that Irving enjoyed the limelight and, with his seemingly naive faith in British justice, believed this case was about his personal vindication before the historical community.

    His only expert witness, if I recall, was Kevin MacDonald, whose ideas about anti-semitism – whatever one thinks of them – were really out of place in such an arena. When Auschwitz and the reality of its homicidal gas chambers – the crux of Holocaust revisionism – became a central focus of the trial. Irving, apparently, refused to call someone like Germar Rudolf, relying instead on his own idiosyncratic theories and limited understanding of the issues.

    And yet for all these criticisms, I must admit he did a pretty good job, especially when one considers that the outcome was always a foregone conclusion.

  6. I’m relatively familiar with David Irving: I’ve read most of his books, attended a couple of his talks, and traded emails with him.

    There is a problem in that he is persecuted — they really are out to get him.

    The results aren’t happy. One is either with David or against him. I’ve struggled to maintain some balance.

    I think he can be selective in the evidence he presents, and is also guilty of distortion on some occasions. This isn’t to condemn him; when it comes to the Third Reich, orthodox historians are far worse — just in the opposite direction. Here I’d cite Richard Evans in particular. His volume on the Nazis prior to their rise to power is valuable, but the subsequent works in the trilogy present an increasingly distorted picture of what the reality was in the Third Reich. Ditto for various others I have read. At best, their writings are unbalanced; at worst, they’re so tenditious, selective, and dishonest as to be useless. One might as well use Soviet school primers from the thirties to gain an understanding of capitalism.

    David Irving is an improvement over all that. However, he is not perfect.

    • Replies: @Bahmi
    , @Myrmecia
  7. @Henry's Cat

    After his book about the Bombing of Dresden, which came out in 1962, Irving became a marked man as far as the Establishment were concerned. But there was little they could do at the time, given the existing laws and the public’s support for freedom of speech. Maybe that made Irving complacent.
    By the 1990s, things had changed decidedly for the worse. He took 5 years to sue the nonentity Lipstadt. He should not have done so. He did not seem to realise the complete futility of the exercise: that the Judge would not give him fair justice.
    In retrospect, Irving should have left Britain years ago to somewhere safer Even Tehran would be better than this.

  8. Aletheia says:

    CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What courage! I congratulate you on this addition to your website because it is about time that the truth of World War II began to be exposed because the neo-liberals and their ilk rely on the lies about Hitler, the Jews etc in order to keep their world order going!!!
    Thank you very very much.
    Maybe you will consider putting up material from Germar Rudolf afterwards.

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
    , @Wally
  9. Irving is well worth your time to read. I’ve read all the books he has on his website.

    Richard Evan and Ian Kersaw are midgets beside Irving. Kershaw blatantly plagiarized Irving his “work” on Hitler. He retired suddenly, and has refused to answer questions about his biography of Hitler. I strongly suspect someone discovered the real source of his “work.”

    Evans is simply a liar and his books are not worthy of notice. John Toland’s book is worth your time to get the allied perspective, even if Toland didn’t like the implications of Irving’s work. Toland did have the guts to get tot he truth in “Infamy.” Like Stennit’s “Day of Deceit,” people have tried to ignore Toland, but neither has been proven wrong, or even questionable.

    • Replies: @Wally
  10. @Aletheia

    Is that you, Marcus Aletheia ? Regardless, you are an honest man.

  11. timothy says:

    Ron, why don’t you actually discuss Irving’s specific claims that were (and are) rejected by the historical establishment? It’s an odd article without them, because your argument isn’t merely that Irving is a free speech martyr but an authoritative source of WWII interpretation. The NYRB agreed with the “free speech” part, by the way:

    Silencing Mr. Irving would be a high price to pay for freedom from the annoyance that he causes us. The fact is that he knows more about National Socialism than most professional scholars in his field, and students of the years 1933-1945 owe more than they are always willing to admit to his energy as a researcher and to the scope and vigor of his publications.

    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    , @renfro
  12. timothy says:
    @JackOH

    As a college student, I read A. J. P. Taylor’s Origins of the Second World War around 1972. I was numb afterward. I’d believed in the frothing-at-the-mouth Hitler and the mad-for-war German generals. I was really wrong.

    Taylor was wrong. I think Trevor-Roper had his number:

    http://www.unz.com/print/Encounter-1961jul-00088

    Taylor didn’t much like Germans. Superficial knowledge of the Taylor/Trevor-Roper debate led me initially to think that Taylor was the Germanophile of the two, but his Origins of the Second World War is actually a clever way of increasing German (qua German) responsibility for the war. If you play down Nazi ideology, if you ridicule the idea of conspiracy or even the importance of elite planning, then you magnify the culpability of the German masses for the cataclysms of the 1940s.

    Taylor’s central argument is that Hitler was not very different from previous German statesmen, and that the course of Nazi aggression was essentially an improvisation rather than a ghoulish master plan.

    The embarrassing thing is that Taylor may have never read Mein Kampf before advancing this argument!

    https://books.google.com/books?id=z9RTpsIuQ58C&pg=PA455&dq=wrigley+taylor+mein+kampf&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kRatUZ3kOoaFrgGqsID4CA#v=snippet&q=%22with%20regard%20to%20taylor’s%20failure%20to%20read%20mein%20kampf%22&f=false

    Taylor descended from Ranke in that he strictly maintained the “Primat der Aussenpolitik.” Geography, great power politics, etc., put into shade any domestic or ideological matters. The big problem for Taylor, however, is the invasion of Russia: I cannot see how Germany crosses that Rubicon in 1941 without Hitler and without Nazism (“all the terrible concepts [of which],” T-R wrote in 1946, “conceal a basic anti-Russian significance”). Economic officials warned that it would be a net financial drain. The “typical German” leaders of the Army largely opposed a war with Russia. The General Staff wanted to sit back and consolidate the gains from 1939-1941.

    Indeed, Taylor half-admitted this by meekly suggesting in a subsequent forward that he was only trying to explain the war between Britain, France and Germany that began in September 1939.

    Trevor-Roper had read an early German edition of Mein Kampf and thus remained solidly undeceived by Hitler in the years leading up to the Second World War. Nothing that subsequently happened surprised him. Then along comes Taylor in the postwar years with his insouciant insistence that Mein Kampf was irrelevant:

    By absolutely refusing to face this evidence, and contemptuously dismissing those who have faced it, Mr. Taylor contrives to reach the preposterous conclusion that men like Ensor, who correctly forecast Hitler’s future programme from the evidence, were really wrong, and that men like Chamberlain, who did not read the evidence and were proved totally wrong by events, were really right.

  13. Jake says:

    “The documents Irving unearths seemingly portray a Winston Churchill so radically different from that of my naive understanding as to be almost unrecognizable, and this naturally raised the question of whether I could credit the accuracy of Irving’s evidence and his interpretation.”

    I was raised, in terms of school and American pop culture, with the same reverence for Churchill as some kind of Saint of English-Speaking Democratic Imperialism, which, in contrast to other types of imperialism, is, as every WASP knows, a good thing for all parties. Luckily, I had a grandfather who felt that Churchill was as amoral and power-ravenous as Stalin or Hitler, and he had a fair amount of evidence at his command.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @TimWebb
  14. Jake says:
    @Tulip Bulb Millionaire

    First, not all members of The Tribe were involved. Nor did all members of The Tribe agree.

    Second, many white Gentiles were directly involved, and many more continue to cheer for what was done to Irving.

    My guess is that if we were to survey (1) American Jews, (2) white Americans who identify as ‘Bible-believing Evangelicals,’ and (3) wealthy, well-educated white Gentiles with backgrounds in Mainline Protestantism or Novus Ordo Catholicism and ties to elite colleges/universities and/or prestigious law firms and/or mainstream publishing, asking members of each group if they approve of what happened to Irving, the percentages of each group that answer YES would be fairly close.

  15. I read a little Irving when he sued Lipstadt. It seemed to me that the problem with his work was not the possible inaccuracy of the details that he included – but the things he had left out. Anyone can tell a good story by leaving out the evidence that does not fit.

    Irving also coined the phrase “the Auschwitz Survivors, Survivors of the Holocaust, and Other Liars—A.S.S.H.O.L.E.S.” You don’t have to be a supporter of the Holocaust Industry to realise that this is crass insensitivity, and an ahistorical insult to those who did survive. Far from indicating a historian of unique genius, it is the product of a perverted mind.

  16. AHA says:

    IIRC Irving capitulated to harassment by Jewish organizations and made up some gas chambers at Auschwitz recently.

    • Replies: @Unzerker
  17. 2359133

    I also haven’t read Mein Kampf, and I don’t believe Hitler was acting out some masterplan either. The problem with British historians, whether Taylor, Trevor-Roper, or even Irving, is that their perspective has been overly focused on German war aims to the near of exclusion of the Soviets. There, I suggest, lies the answer to your enigma of why Hitler attacked the Soviet Union.

    • Agree: byrresheim
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @jilles dykstra
  18. conatus says:

    Herbert Hoover p. 818 in his long history of the Second World War ‘Freedom Betrayed’
    said Kennedy, the Ambassador to Great Britain, told Hoover that FDR lobbied incessantly for Britain to give a war guarantee to Poland, thus steeling the Polish resolve and causing Britain to be drawn into a war that would lose its Empire.

    “Kennedy said that after the Germans had occupied Prague and the great cry of appeasement had sprung up in the world and after the Germans had pressed their demands for Danzig and an passage through the Corridor, that Roosevelt and Bullitt were the major factors in the British making their guarantees to Poland and becoming involved in the war. Kennedy said that Bullitt, under instructions from Roosevelt, was constantly urging the Poles not to make terms with the Germans and that he Kennedy, under instructions from Roosevelt, was constantly urging the British to make guarantees to the Poles. Kennedy said he had received a cable from Roosevelt to “put a poker up Chamberlain’s back and make him stand up.” Kennedy saw Chamberlain on numerous occasions, urging him in Roosevelt’s name to do all this with the implication that the United States would give the British support. He said that after Chamberlain had given these guarantees, Chamberlain told him(Kennedy) that he hoped the Americans and the Jews would now be satisfied but that he(Chamberlain) felt that he had signed the doom of civilization.”

    I would speculate that FDR(and Churchill too) knew you did not get many pages in the history books if you kept the peace.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @hyperbola
  19. Anonymous[233] • Disclaimer says:
    @Henry's Cat

    Hitler wrote and talked about creating a land empire in the East. Then Nazi Germany tried to create a land empire in the East. What connects A to B? A riddle wrapped in an enigma, if ever there was one.

  20. @James N. Kennett

    One might read Finkelstein and others to answer this.

    I would however not recommend to send the answer from a computer located in continental, or, worse, central Europe, unless you need a new hobby. In which case public prosecutors will be happy to provide you with one.

  21. @Anonymous

    Very recently, an article in this place said some important things about Barbarossa, and you might want to take a closer look.

    At least the riddle might be solved, an I am positive that you will swiftly find the answer to the enigma it’s wrapped in once you look up what happened to Prof. Nolte, and importantly, why this happened. Time being precious, the Wikipedia should be accurate enough.

    If you then take time to meditate on the strange fact that most eastern Europeans prefer Germans to Russians by far, event though the Germans were the sadistic criminals and the Russians the liberators, you might approach an answer – but brace yourself, the answer might not be what you expect it to be in this very moment.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Thea
  22. Strunk says:

    Christopher Hitchens debating against Jewish obstruction of the publishing of Hitler’s War:

  23. Shoanuff says:

    David Cole’s documentary allegedly exposing the false narrative of Auschwitz “Jewish Death Camps”:

    • Replies: @Aletheia
  24. Shoanuff says:

    Here’s a clip of David Cole getting plenty of grief regarding his revisionist holocaust documentary on Donahue back in the nineties. Btw, recently, YouTube has restricted videos questioning the number of Jewish dead from the holocaust, making it impossible to share a link. That is outrageous. They missed this clip so far…

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Harbinger
  25. @Jake

    I would generally agree but the prime motivators and instigators of the Irving persecution are group 1 – American Jews

  26. @Jake

    … Not all members of the tribe were involved … many white Gentiles were directly involved …

    True and true. But I wrote “instigated” (Merriam-Webster: “to goad or urge forward: provoke”), not “involved.”

    The presumed results of your imaginary survey might be correct, given the massive anti-Irving tone of writing, discussion, and film making on the subject. Without Jewish involvement, I think a more balanced view (not one 100 percent pro-Irving) would prevail.

    My intent was not to support Mr. Irving’s thesis; I don’t have the knowledge or background to go out on that limb. But there is no question in my mind that he got a raw deal in the courts of law and public opinion. As some commentators have suggested, he did himself no favor by naively believing that a civil trial would be the right forum to argue his historical case.

    • Replies: @Jake
  27. @timothy

    At least Hitler hater acknowledged that the Germany’s “spread” of the war was in response to Allied provocations, whether mining Norway’s harbours and failed invasion to landing troops in Greece. Invading neutral Iceland was done to secure a naval and air base to attack German ships.

    While Irving is interesting, he is only part of filling in the gaps. I found this site useful in filling in other gaps https://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archivesindex.html
    Some of the material contradicts Irving and, of course others.

  28. Hail says: • Website

    FYI, Mr. Irving maintains a semi-daily page of short items of interest to his readers, here:

    David Irving’s Action Report Online.

    Thirty seconds on this page will reveal things like:
    - Irving has recently been axed from PayPal (apparently in spring 2017, following the sudden banning of revisionist books on Amazon) (add that to the list of quasi-official persecution);
    - Irving is taking sign-ups for another tour he leads of the Hitler Bunker in East Prussia (now Poland) for fall 2018 — Irving still going strong at eighty;
    - “Hitler’s War (right) is now sold out, and will soon reprint; we are currently rebuilding the picture-section, replacing some illustrations which were returned to original owners”

  29. Hail says: • Website

    One of Irving’s regular subjects in his later career has been a revival of the Dresden Question, which I do not see in this post by Ron Unz, but is of interest. After all, it was Irving’s early Dresden book that propelled him to fame in the first place; Kurt Vonnegut quoted the Irving Dresden book on the first page of his own best-selling, breakout “Slaughterhouse Five.”

    In recent years, a “PC” narrative seeking to deflate Dresden has arisen, now seemingly quoted by all prestige media (they claim <25,000 killed). Irving has several pieces of evidence for a total well over 100,000, corroborating his original 1960s estimate from then-available material of 135,000 killed (See entry marked April 24, 2009). (Some on Germany’s dissident right push a figure in the hundreds of thousands but there is no way to know the true toll due to many of the presumable victims being unregistered refugees when the bombing began.)

    It may be too obvious to state, but the Dresden Question — i.e., the dispute over the death toll — is a metaphor for whether German victimhood was/is even “possible,” with implications for present-day (German-)domestic and international politics.

    (The question of Jewish losses in the east is a lot more nebulous of an issue with which he was involved only at the margins, and which was never Irving’s specialty anyway. Dresden, though, is his specialty.)

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Dave Pinsen
    , @DFH
  30. Anonymous[270] • Disclaimer says:

    Jewish revolutionary spirit on full display here. Kudos to you, Ron.

    I never read anything by David Irving, mostly because, based on reviews/comments, I always assumed that he claims that Hitler had no part in the deliberate extermination of a large number of Jews. Given a few things that I know and am comfortable in accepting as truth, I find that claim to be stretching the bounds of believability.

    To those who did read David Irving: Could you please summarize the core of his claims in a few sentences? An emphasis on claims that are verifiable through sources that can reasonably be expected to be propaganda-free would be particularly appreciated.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @John Mortl
  31. iffen says:

    If there is a God, you will be punished for using the name, E.O. Wilson, in this article about a fraudulent neo-Nazi.

  32. @Anonymous

    ‘To those who did read David Irving: Could you please summarize the core of his claims in a few sentences? ‘

    As of now, Irving agrees that the Holocaust did occur — although he questions the especial significance of Auschwitz. However, he is on record as agreeing that 2.5 million Jews were killed in the ‘Operation Reinhard’ camps alone.

    Where he primarily deviates from the orthodox narrative is that he insists there is no evidence that Hitler ordered the Holocaust.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @nebulafox
    , @Karl
  33. A humble suggestion for an addition to your Irving library: Uprising! One Nation’s Nightmare: Hungary 1956.

    I downloaded it months ago from someplace I have forgotten and have found it to be very revealing. I don’t see it here. Forgive me if I am mistaken.

    Thank you for your courageous, honest work.

  34. utu says:
    @Henry's Cat

    By the 1990s, things had changed decidedly for the worse. He took 5 years to sue the nonentity Lipstadt. He should not have done so. He did not seem to realise the complete futility of the exercise: that the Judge would not give him fair justice.

    Agree.

    Certainly he had limited resources, but the suspicion is that Irving enjoyed the limelight and, with his seemingly naive faith in British justice, believed this case was about his personal vindication before the historical community.

    Agree.

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
  35. utu says:
    @conatus

    FDR had a pretty good idea in 1938 how Hitler’s war will unfold.

    From 21 November 1938 report by Ambassador Potocki on conversation with Ambassador Bullitt

    As the Soviet Union’s potential strength is not yet known, it might happen that Germany would have moved too far away from its base, and would be condemned to wage a long and weakening war. Only then would the democratic countries attack Germany, Bullitt declared, and force her to capitulate.

    In reply to my question whether the United States would take part in such a war, he said, ‘Undoubtedly yes, but only after Great Britain and France had let loose first!’

  36. Mulegino1 says:

    The Manichean myth of the evil “Hitler and Nazi Germany” defeated by the virtuous and freedom loving Allies provides the founding narrative for the current Anglo-Zionist hegemony centered in Wall St., the City of London, NATO headquarters, Washington D.C, and Tel Aviv- along with its ancillary cultural outposts in Hollywood, the corporate media and academia.

    History, written by the victors (at least the court historiography written by the hacks and sycophants) will always bend, twist and hew the facts in Procrustean fashion to support the narrative. After all, supporting the official narrative is the bread and butter of court historians.

    David Irving is a good and mostly honest historian who is excellent in ferreting out primary documentary and eyewitness sources, and is entertaining in the extreme, unlike hacks like Stephen Ambrose, who are entirely predictable propagandists. “Band of Brothers” indeed!

    About 90% of everything I was ever taught as a child and young adult about Hitler, the Third Reich, the Second World War and its aftermath was false. The war itself was- like the first Great War- judged by its results and aftermath, not by the venal, economic and geopolitical hegemonic motives of its real authors and planners.

  37. Ivan says:

    David Irving’s great merit as a historian is that he does not hide or try to segue into his narrative anything that he finds in the archives, that does not fit with his own biases. This to me is the hallmark of a man in search of the truth. I am not happy with his bias towards Hitler, but he never lets it get in the way of documenting the truth. We have enough historians who are ready with the grand narrative, but I would rather read of the telling detail that could be significant in the light of events. Mr Irving is an honest man and a great writer.

  38. utu says:
    @byrresheim

    God that your brought up Ernst Nolte. His wiki entry is pretty good:

    In Der europäische Bürgerkrieg, Nolte put forward five different arguments as a way of criticizing the uniqueness of the Shoah thesis. These were as follows:

    There were other equally horrible acts of violence in the 20th century.[76] Some of the examples Nolte cited were the Armenian genocide; Soviet deportations of the so-called “traitor nations,” such as the Crimean Tatars and the Volga Germans; British “area bombing” in World War II; and American violence in the Vietnam War.[77]

    Nazi genocide was only a copy of Soviet genocide, and thus can in no way be considered unique.[77]

    Nolte argued that the vast majority of Germans had no knowledge of the ‘Holocaust while it was happening[77] Nolte claimed that the genocide of the Jews was Hitler’s personal pet project, and that the Holocaust was the work of only a few Germans who were entirely unrepresentative of German society[77] Contradicting the American historian Raul Hilberg, who claimed that hundreds of thousands of Germans were complicit in the Holocaust, from high-ranking bureaucrats to railway clerks and locomotive conductors, Nolte argued that the functional division of labour in modern society meant that most people in Germany had no idea of how they were assisting in genocide.[78] In support of this, Nolte cited the voluminous memoirs of German generals and Nazi leaders, such as Albert Speer, who claimed to have no idea that their country was engaging in genocide during World War II.[78]

    Nolte maintained that to a certain degree Nazi anti-Semitic policies were justifiable responses to Jewish actions against Germany, such as Weizmann’s alleged 1939 “declaration of war” on Germany.[78]

    Finally, Nolte hinted at the possibility that the Holocaust had never happened at all.[79] Nolte claimed that the Wannsee Conference never took place, and argued that most Holocaust scholarship is flawed because most Holocaust historians are Jewish, and thus “biased” against Germany and in favour of the idea that there was a Holocaust.[79]

    “In his essay Ernst Nolte discusses the “so-called” annihilation of the Jews (in H.W. Koch, ed. Aspects of the Third Reich, London, 1985). Chaim Weizmann’s declaration in the beginning of September 1939 that the Jews of the world would fight on the side of Britain, “justified” – so opined Nolte – Hitler to treat the Jews as prisoners of war and intern them

    Norman Davies about Nolte:

    Ten years later, in The European Civil War (1987), the German historian Ernst Nolte (b. 1923) brought ideology into the equation. The First World War had spawned the Bolshevik Revolution, he maintained, and fascism should be seen as a “counter-revolution” against communism. More pointedly, since fascism followed communism chronologically, he argued that some of the Nazis’ political techniques and practices had been copied from those of the Soviet Union. Needless to say, such propositions were thought anathema by leftists who believe that fascism was an original and unparalleled evil.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  39. utu says:
    @Hail

    In recent years, a “PC” narrative seeking to deflate Dresden has arisen, now seemingly quoted by all prestige media (they claim <25,000 killed).

    Why German historian go along with this? Why do the allow the Brits to dictate history for them? Lowering the number is a British project to get it closer to the Coventry number.

    • Replies: @Hail
  40. utu says:

    Great thanks to Ron Unz for writing this passionate article.

    Collection of money for David Irving or purchasing books from him if it is possible should be considered. I am afraid he is in difficult situation.

    • Replies: @Anon
  41. Wally says:

    See charlatan Deborah Lipstadt and her fake & impossible ‘holocaust’ further debunked here:

    Lipstadt, Alternative Facts and Northwestern University.
    By David Merlin https://codoh.com/library/document/4636/?lang=en

    Irving v. Lipstadt” Trial for Movie Theaters, Part I
    By David Merlin https://codoh.com/library/document/3442/

    “Irving v. Lipstadt” Trial for Movie Theaters, Part II
    By David Merlin https://codoh.com/library/document/3693/

    “Irving v. Lipstadt” Trial for Movie Theaters, Part III
    By David Merlin

    https://codoh.com/library/document/3698/

    See the impossible ‘holocaust’ scam further debunked here:

    http://codoh.com

    No name calling, level playing field debate here:

    http://forum.codoh.com

  42. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    Irving certainly cut a deal to get out of prison early, hence his absurd “holocaust-lite”.
    When asked to back it up he has failed miserably.*

    The mentioned Reinhardt ‘extermination’ camps, that Irving says he believes in, supposedly contain 900,000 Jew remains at Treblinka , 250,000 claimed Jew remains at Sobibor, and 500,000 Jew remains are claimed at Belzec. These alleged remains are said to exist to this day in alleged & marked enormous ‘mass graves’. Think about the size these would necessarily be. Two guy with shovels could end the rise of Holocaust Revisionism overnight.
    However, there is not
    a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed. Even though, to repeat, Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.
    There have been attempts to locate this immense alleged humans remains, the alleged remains have not, cannot be shown.
    * recommended:
    Irving’s ‘holocaust’ lite / but what ’2.4 million document’? http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4548

    ‘Irving attempts ‘rehabilitation’ via the Hoefle Telegram’ http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4558

    Grubach’s Open Letter to David Irving http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4563

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Crimson2
  43. Wally says:
    @Shoanuff

    A must read:

    Forty-Six Important Unanswered Questions Regarding the Nazi Gas Chambers
    By David Cole

    https://codoh.com/library/document/987/?lang=en

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  44. Wally says:
    @James N. Kennett

    tax exempt cash taken in by US Holocau$t Museum, aka: ‘Holocau$t’ Theme Park, for fiscal year 2016:
    $151,826,695.00
    $151,826,695.00

    https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/042717-IRS-Form-990-FY16.pdf

    US taxpayers money to the USHMM in the 2017 budget:
    56,999,500.00

    https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/20160209-fy17-pres-budget-request.pdf

    http://www.codoh.com

  45. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    Right. And not only that, he thought it would be relatively easy. IIRC, in his Stalingrad book, Beevor quotes Hitler saying something to the effect that Russia was a rotten structure that would collapse when you kicked the door in.

  46. Wally says:
    @Quartermaster

    Shyster Richard Evans is undressed here:

    https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=richard+evans

    “Some stories are true that never happened.”
    - Elie Wiesel

    http://www.codoh.com

  47. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Hail

    German historian Jörg Friedrich wrote a book about the firebombing of Dresden and other cities in Germany in 2007. Here he is speaking about it on CSPAN’s Book TV in a Jewish-owned bookstore in Washington D.C.:

    https://www.c-span.org/video/?196223-1/the-fire-bombing-germany-1940-1945

    • Replies: @Hail
  48. Wally says:
    @Aletheia

    By Germar Rudolf, a list, scroll down:
    Chemistry of Auschwitz / Birkenau

    The Rudolf Report
    Expert Report on Chemical and Technical Aspects
    of the ‘Gas Chambers’ of Auschwitz

    http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/index.html

    Some Technical and Chemical Considerations
    about the ‘Gas Chambers’ of Auschwitz and Birkenau’

    by master chemist Germar Rudolf

    http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndgcger.html

    Rudolf’s website:

    http://germarrudolf.com/persecution/germars-persecution/auschwitz-forensics/

    Much, much more by Rudolf and others:
    https://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?author_id=1
    http://www.codoh.com

  49. My copy of Hitler’s War is a former British library book.
    When I ordered it I oversaw that it was in bad condition.
    Never seen a book that had been so often read that it became nearly unreadably.
    In my copy the gas chambers still exist, they seem to have been removed from later editions.
    David Irving, ‘Hitler’s war’, Londen, 1977

  50. This development eventually sparked a rancorous lawsuit in 1998, which resulted in a celebrated 2000 libel trial held in British Court.

    Hmm, Ron makes it sound like lawsuits file themselves.

    It was quite the ass-kicking…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_v_Penguin_Books_Ltd

    • Replies: @Callinit
  51. @Henry's Cat

    Hitler’s attack was defensive:
    Bogdan Musial, ‘Kampfplatz Deutschland, Stalins Kriegspläne gegen den Westen’, Berlin 2008

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  52. @FKA Max

    Who, in Germany, Austria, France, The Netherlands, other countries too, I suppose, questions the six million and the gas chambers, commits a criminal offence.
    Irving removed as far as I know in later editions of Hitler’s War the gas chambers.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    , @Wizard of Oz
  53. nebulafox says:
    @Colin Wright

    The problem with stating that a lack of a “smoking gun” means that Hitler didn’t order the Holocaust is that Hitler didn’t normally give written orders at all, unless he had to. He was an incredibly secretive man who didn’t like committing himself to paper, and on this subject in particular, he probably wouldn’t have wanted a written order directly from him. He was also very unstereotypically German in his work style, preferring vague oral instructions conveyed through aides (mostly Bormann as the war went on, but still in 1941, also Himmler and Goering) to bureaucratic rubber stamps. Finally, Hitler had an absolutely stupendous memory and ability to internalize facts. I find it very hard to believe that he wouldn’t have stored something like this in his mind.

    (What specifically prompted him to never discuss or write about the Holocaust: fear of revenge, fear of dampening his passion, or my own theory, a tiny scruple of the nagging bourgeois morality and conscience he had made a conscious decision to rid himself of starting when he was 30, which had stayed intact in spite of all his efforts: we’ll never know for sure.)

    Nazi Germany might have been a charismatic dictatorship rather than a bureaucratic one, to wax Weber for a bit, but it was nonetheless a totalitarian state that was getting even more totalitarian as the war went on. It just wasn’t the sort of place where projects on the level and scale of the Holocaust would be authorized without the explicit will of Hitler behind it. For all his Bohemianism and Schlamperei, nothing of significance in the Third Reich was ever undertaken in contradiction to Hitler’s known wishes. And there is indirect evidence-take the Chancellery meeting of December 12th, a far, far more important even than the Wannsee Conference. The diaries of Goebbels and Hans Frank are pretty explicit-Hitler didn’t mince any words. He wanted the Jews exterminated. I am no professional historian and will not pretend to be one. But my own personal layman, average-IQed guess is that, while the idea for wholesale extermination had been getting more concrete throughout the year of 1941 in Hitler’s mind (and this reflected with how Barbarossa was carried out-hence the reformation of the Einsatzgruppen, orders to the army and SS to treat Jews as partisans, etc. This period also coincided psychologically with Hitler’s general personality relapse and regression after 1941, meaning his old ideological obsessions came to the forefront again), that the entry of the United States into the war was a watershed moment because the Jews of continental Europe had lost any hostage value.

    That I disagree with Irving on Hitler’s responsibility of the Holocaust, needless to say, doesn’t mean I think he should be silenced or arrested or threatened with death for sticking to his historical opinions. I also agree with Irving insofar as Auschwitz is too overly focused on. By the time Auschwitz reached peak killing capacity in 1944, when the Jews of Hungary flooded into the complex, the real dirty work had already been done in the opening year of Operation Barbarossa, where the German military was explicitly ordered to treat all Jews as de facto Communist partisans. The old heart of the Jewish pale had been annihilated, never to return. Then there’s Operation Reinhard. Auschwitz was, in many ways, a grim coda to the Final Solution.

  54. Crimson2 says:

    I guess you’ve fully lost it. Irving was so bad at fabricating history that he lost his house in a libel suit that HE filed. It was one of the greatest self-owns in history.

    He is a disgrace and so is anyone who follows him.

  55. nebulafox says:
    @timothy

    >Taylor’s central argument is that Hitler was not very different from previous German statesmen, and that the course of Nazi aggression was essentially an improvisation rather than a ghoulish master plan.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost

    To all Sonderweg believers: Hitler. Was. Not. Wilhelm III.

    >I cannot see how Germany crosses that Rubicon in 1941 without Hitler and without Nazism (“all the terrible concepts [of which],” T-R wrote in 1946, “conceal a basic anti-Russian significance”). Economic officials warned that it would be a net financial drain. The “typical German” leaders of the Army largely opposed a war with Russia. The General Staff wanted to sit back and consolidate the gains from 1939-1941.

    That’s not exactly true. The army enthusiastically went along with Hitler’s plan because they thought it would be an easy victory and had as much firebreathing ideological contempt for Judeo-Bolshevism as Hitler did. This opinion was far from limited to Germany: it was conventional wisdom. TIME magazine openly stated that they didn’t think the Russians had a chance in the summer of ’41. Same with most professional Anglo-American observers.

    Where I do agree is that it is unlikely a military junta run Germany would launch an ideological crusade against Russia, but a military junta run Germany would have its genesis in the early 1930s, before Hitler came to power. That would meant that the old Reischwehr (and Prussian) tradition of deep collaboration with Russia would hang around, as Stalin initially expected in 1933 upon Hitler taking power, and Nazi ideology wouldn’t have a chance to make the anti-Communism and anti-Slav focus outstrip the Realpolitik one.

    The main thing everybody missed was that, in spite of the purges and the Red Army’s ineptitude during the Winter War, that the USSR in 1941 and 1942 was far, far stronger than Tsarist Russia was in 1914 and 1915. The Germans kicked Russia from post to post in the previous war-Tannenberg, Masurian Lakes, Gorlitz/Tornow, the list of debacles goes on. Brest-Livtovsk was a victory for the Germans, and a surrender by the Russians, by any reasonable standard. The Germans thought it would be another cakewalk, as did outside observers, because they expected the Red Army to be the same force the Tsar’s Army was. It wasn’t, even with the purges. Russia had changed a lot in the past 20 years. At the cost of tens of millions of lives, Stalin dragged the place-kicking and screaming-into the 20th Century. Ironically enough, Hitler seemed to appreciate this before his generals did in 1942, openly mentioning to Mannerheim that he underestimated the Soviet Union’s industrial capacities.

    The Red Army was a different beast from the Tsar’s army: it was much more literate and functional, it had the backing of an industrialized technical economy, and it could take on formidable enemies, as the Red Army’s performance against the IJA in the late 1930s should have showed. Ironically enough, the Germans themselves had a lot to do with this, since Soviet-German collaboration against Versailles in the 1920s basically transformed the Red Army into a formidable fighting force. The Stavka was even modeled off the Prussian General Staff.

    And there’s also the fact that the Third Reich, despite its impressive victories, was internally far structurally weaker than the Kaiser’s Reich was, and less equipped to handle something like Barbarossa and long wars in general. It was also far less competently run, letting anti-Slav ideology obscure the fact that dozens of Polish divisions, highly anti-Russian to the last man, might have been very useful in crushing Communism like a bug-to say nothing of all the Ukrainians and Balts who had little love for anything Russian after experiencing Stalin’s tender mercies. But the Nazis had no time for that: Slavs were Slavs and the future of Poles was a mix of helotry and extinction. So… the Polish Underground became the fiercest resistance movement in Europe.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    , @Anon
    , @Uebersetzer
  56. nebulafox says:
    @nebulafox

    Comment timed out…

    One thing that stood out to me: the Second Reich immediately threw everything it had into the war. It didn’t give a damn how you felt, it was total mobilization from the get-go. The Third Reich would not even begin to do so until 1943, and even then, Hitler, under Bormann’s influence, would constantly frustrate Goebbels and Speer’s (the two top Nazi leaders who were under no illusions about Germany’s situation) efforts to put all hangups aside. Nazi Party leaders continued their pet projects and their extreme corruption, full mobilization of women was impeded, etc, etc.

    This is not to say the Third Reich didn’t do some things more competently: the WWII German military was far more meritocratic than the WWI German military was, for example, and really perfected the art of Aufstragtaktik. But even so, the bureaucratic chaos of Nazi Germany constantly stymied any attempt for coherent policy at a time where the nation really needed it, and Hitler was allergic to any efforts at reform.

  57. Anon[411] • Disclaimer says:

    ‘Supression’ of Irwing by the West is, in fact, a defensive motion. WW2 is a crime of the West in toto, not only of madman Hitler or Mussolini, Horti etc. or their particular nations. Somehow, many millions were killed, either shot, or gassed or burned alive or just starved to death during WW2. Someone should be responsible. If we start historic research in any direction, we may found other responsible persons and actors from the West. That’s why, any research is undesirable. Better replace it with Holywood or theme park version of history, and silence everything that doesn’t fit the narrative. The Holocaust version of history is another theme park – where only Jews are the victims, and all narrative is reduced to this particular segment of crimes against the humanity. Yet even in this segment, we have sponsors of NSDAP from overseas making deathcamps possible eventually.

    Another problem is how Irwing or someone else looks upon Hitler. They try to understand his motives and eventually treat him as if they were in his place. This breaks the curtain over theatrical machinery behind the scenes of WW2. Hitler was indeed a tool of the West, and his Reich was a system to use against USSR (branded as anti-bolshevism) and Russia, and this was stated from the very beginning. For this use Hitler and his party received funding from USA. Yet the Western narrative – the willing suspension of disbelief – using Nazi exploitation culture, Holocaust fandom etc. – keeps us from assuming Hitler was one of themselves. He was indeed a kind of mafioso, hired by the wealthy owner to terrorize the workers and peasants. Mafia is also a part of the capitalist system, and in the times of the rising domestic Mafias the West had it’s Five Families in Europe, with bosses Hiitler, Mussolini, Horti, Franco, Antonesku (or Mannerheim?).

    Third dimension of this is blaming Stalin. He is often portrayed as equally bad like Hitler, and the concept of totalitarianism comes to the stage. The next movement is to pretend that USSR is equally responsible for the war, and going further – that USSR started the war. In that narrative other sides (the rest of the West) disappear from establishing responsibility. This concept doesn’t pass the ‘qui prodest’ test. Yet the speculations are very popular. We have a plenty of minor European countries that sided with Nazi Germany, and their nations cannot bear the shame of being either cowards or Nazi henchmen. Their national myths use ‘blame Germans and Russians’ scenario.

    Perception of WW2 in the West is grief, and there is DABDA model – denial, anger… acceptance. Accept that WW2 is a crime of the Western World, the ‘Free World’, the world of capitalism. If you have usury and the concept of being better than others, thsn slave trade, child labor, piracy, wars and death camps will follow. We may think of an equation where Hitler = JP Morgan + Ford + x.

    • Replies: @Anon
  58. nebulafox says:
    @JackOH

    Hitler was indeed anything but the frothing of the mouth stereotype when talking to others. Never have I seen a historical figure who was so chameleon-like, so adept at adapting himself to whatever would work best with the target. Not for nothing did he call himself the “best actor in Europe”. Hitler’s intuitive reading of the weaknesses and biases of other human beings might have been even more important than his oratory in explaining his political success.

    (Note that Hitler’s Frederick the Great style strategy after 1941 was more strategically sound than people think. He was essentially right in thinking the Allies would fall apart because the divergences of interests between Soviet Communists and Anglo-American capitalists was too great to be reconciled. He just underestimated their determination to rub him off the face of the earth first-there would be no Frankfurt Proposals for Adolf Hitler.)

    The German military was not mad for war because they knew they’d be unlikely to win a long-term battle against a grand coalition, not because they didn’t think it was Germany’s right to dominate Europe in the long run. That said, it was highly negligent on the part of the Western World to ignore the overture that the Junkers tried to make in 1938-and a German dominated Europe is what we’ve got right now anyway. Hitler’s smashing of the French army pretty much gave them the lower hand in arguments for the next couple of years, especially when it came to the extremely underestimated (both inside and outside of Germany) USSR. But as I mentioned in the comment, while Hitler made the fatal mistake of underestimating Stalin’s USSR, so did most professional military opinion, both in and outside Germany, especially after the Winter War.

    That, and by 1939, the junior officer corps and enlisted ranks were heavily Nazified. Nazi ideology particularly stressed targeting young people, and here, they were extremely successful. They couldn’t be relied on in any coup, as 1944 would ultimately show. It’s the same thing that bit the Turkish generals in the butt a few years back when they tried to overthrow Erdogan. The AKP had been allowed to conslidate its power and the enlisted ranks were all Anatolian believers.

    • Replies: @iffen
  59. @utu

    FWIW, my local public library system still has 4 of his books in circulation- the ones on Rommel, Goebbels and “Hitler’s War” and “Churchill’s War”. I suppose a lot of the earlier ones are now out of print.
    However, the Anglo-Zionist Party under its Whore of Tel Aviv, will no doubt try to rectify this. The only good thing is that it is a minority government and its days are very much numbered. Any alternative – even a Corbynite one – cannot be worse.

    • Replies: @utu
  60. Aletheia says:
    @Shoanuff

    Why alleged? Obviously you have not read the literature. You can begin with Germar Rudolf and Fred Leuchter and Faurisson. It will certainly bring you in contact with serious investigators and no propaganda

    • Agree: cassandra
  61. DFH says:
    @Hail

    It may be too obvious to state, but the Dresden Question — i.e., the dispute over the death toll — is a metaphor for whether German victimhood was/is even “possible,” with implications for present-day (German-)domestic and international politics.

    Trying to guilt British people for Dresden is something that for the most part pacifists and other left-wingers care about. Ordinary British conservatives and nationalists see it as more whining equivalent to the whinging about the Mau-Mau etc. It has zero greater political reprecussions for anyone beyond a few oddballs on the internet, sorry to break it to you.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/aug/20/secondworldwar.warcrimes

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Old Palo Altan
    , @Tyrion 2
  62. Bahmi says:
    @Colin Wright

    Neither are you perfect, Mr. Mensa.

  63. Jake says:
    @Tulip Bulb Millionaire

    “Without Jewish involvement, I think a more balanced view (not one 100 percent pro-Irving) would prevail.”

    That’s true, but it also is true that if the development of WASP culture had not been what it is that no Jewish whining would have succeeded in such lynchings of ideas.

    Here is the analogy: if not for the history of rich and upper middle class Yankee WASPs with Abolitionism and Reconstruction, with their immediately sanctifying into a civil religion their concept of slaughtering huge numbers of whites to save and uplift the Numinous Negro, we never could have had of wild-eyed Jews in the 20th century using that history against even the most Boston Brahminy WASPs who always assumed they were immune.

    As with the founding of Feminism, WASPs begin the insanity, and the Cromwellian ally the Jews take it to its logical ends against not just the despised Irish and Scots Highlanders and Confederates, and the immigrating Slavs and Italians, but against the WASPs themselves, first the poor WASPs and then the WASP Elites, until such time as it is revealed for all to see that the culture which sprang from a Judaizing heresy has become a limp-wristed servant of its original ally and partner.

    That is the only end of a Judaizing heresy that captures sway over nations. It must, after its has shot its wad devouring peoples and cultures that stood with Christendom, devour itself, because its source is rebellion, violent rebellion, against Christendom. The Cromwell deal with Jews marked the choice: WASP culture would stand with Jews in demanding to save Barabbas.

    You can spend all your time blaming Jews for Cromwell and the 1st generation of WASPs to wield national power for that making that deal to ally with Jews overtly, using Jewish money to wage war against non-WASP white Christains, but you would be as silly as Geraldine blaming the Devil for making her buy that dress. The theology of Anglo-Saxon Puritanism guaranteed the subsequent actions.

  64. the vicar says:

    Unz has picked the wrong hill to fight on. The reader who points out you talk only about the freedom of speech issue, and not about what Irving writes, is on the money. It’s precisely Irving’s “historiography” that’s in question. Better historians than he have long pointed out that he garbles, misleads and fudges his sources. The Lipstadt thing can be a disgrace AND Irving can be a slapdash historian. They’re not contradictions in terms.

  65. Jake says:
    @Anonymous

    That one made me chuckle.

    Hitler held back from destroying the Brits at Dunkirk because of the naive hope that the English would see not merely that he and the Germans had no interest in conquering England but that they should be Germanic allies ruling the globe for Germanic languages and culture, forever and ever, amen.

    But that could never happen, because the Nazi vision was essentially one of Germanic paganism while the WASP vision is one of Germanic Judaizing heresy. Each would be tickled pink to slaughter millions upon millions of ‘other’ whites and make serfs of the survivors, but they could never ally honestly.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  66. nebulafox says:
    @jilles dykstra

    One of those highly un-PC things to mention: your chances of survival in German hands as a Soviet POW in the autumn of 1941 were probably slimmer than if you were an Ostjude, let alone a continental Jew. They just put them into great open compounds and let them starve, or used them as testing subjects for the gas chambers. Why Western pop history consistently ignores this, I’ll leave up to your own conclusions.

    (It was also incredibly stupid given the labor problems the German wartime economy was facing. Not to mention the “fight to the death” incentive it gave the average Russian soldier, unless you subscribe to the theory-which probably has a grain of truth to it-that Hitler, in true Machiavellian form, ratcheted up atrocities deliberately so that the predictable Soviet reaction would end up giving German soldiers little choice but to fight to the death themselves, too.)

    And the Jews were far from unique in being targeted for genocide by the Nazis: the Poles and Russians were slated to be exterminated as nations, too. The Jews were targeted first because I think Hitler essentially thought of them as negative Herrenvolk-the big threat of internal resistance to his New Order. But they were just the tip of the iceberg. The claim that the Holocaust was at all exclusive is just wrong. That is what makes the Nazi regime so creepy. Unlike other monstrous regimes in history, we didn’t see the worst. They barely got started on what they planned on doing.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @bj
  67. Interesting that on 6 June 2018 no reference is made here in UNZ Review to 6 June 1944.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normandy_landings

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  68. Anonymous[266] • Disclaimer says:
    @James N. Kennett

    Irving also coined the phrase “the Auschwitz Survivors, Survivors of the Holocaust, and Other Liars—A.S.S.H.O.L.E.S.” You don’t have to be a supporter of the Holocaust Industry to realise that this is crass insensitivity, and an ahistorical insult to those who did survive. Far from indicating a historian of unique genius, it is the product of a perverted mind.

    I agree. It clearly shows a meanness that is an immediate turn-off. I have no time for mean-spirited individuals. They are toxic.

  69. nebulafox says:
    @Jake

    Joachim Fest points out that Barbarossa had an essentially dual character. It was a crusade against Bolshevism, yes. But even moreso, it was an old-style colonial war of conquest in the vein of the bourgeois European “long 19th century” (one of the big themes of Fest’s book was that Hitler was the quintessential degraded product of the age he ended up destroying), the only difference being that Hitler was aiming the colonial conquest at a traditional old European power. This latter concept ultimately predominated during Barbarossa, no matter how much Goebbels and Rosenberg tried to pragmatically make the former the main agenda.

    Hitler’s ideal for pacified Russia was British India, though in practice, the intent would have been far more like what the Spaniards and British did to the indigenous Americans centuries earlier. (There were times where the British were willing to blatantly throw away the lives of Indians away in pseudo-genocidal fashion, to be sure: see what went on in the Bengal during WWII. But it was never really conceived as an end in itself. There was never a Generalplan Ost-esque plan for en masse resettlement of Englishmen onto the subcontinent, replacing the natives.)

    Hitler also had a completely un-bureaucratic mind and failed to appreciate the intricate British bureaucracy that made colonial rule work. In the New Order, nothing resembled order. At all. The simultaneous racial megalomania and administrative chaos that was practice and honed in Poland was taken to its extremest logical conclusion in the occupied USSR.

    • Replies: @Escher
  70. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Sounds a bit erratic to me. Can any disgnostician tell me where this Anon’s ragbag of ideas appear to come from?

    • Replies: @Hu Mi Yu
    , @Sam J.
  71. Anon[411] • Disclaimer says:
    @nebulafox

    The Red Army was a different beast from the Tsar’s army: it was much more literate

    Imperial army was, basically, a school for conscripts – those illiterate were able to read after service. On the contrary, Red Army conscripts were already literate because of universal free 7-year education. In Imperial Russia, literacy level was higher than in contemporary countriest of the West, with illiterate women, men unfit for service, and non-serving minorities.

    industrialized technical economy

    Also disputable. Imperial Russia built its own battleships, invented gas mask, radio, assault rifle and heavy bomber (Sikorsky planes).

    In reality, times and rules of war have changed and we cannot judge, what entity performed better. On one side, Imperial Russia could not effectively advance to Berlin. It was in someway dependent on supply of many war materiel as well as USSR. The second front and allied air raids were also of some help for moving towards the end of the war.

    highly anti-Russian to the last man, might have been very useful in crushing Communism like a bug-to say nothing of all the Ukrainians and Balts who had little love for anything Russian

    This is plain propaganda.

    Polish Underground became the fiercest resistance movement

    And above the ground Poles reported Jews to Gestapo to get the spoils and settle in their empty houses. Polish Underground is yet another fairy-tale, akin to Glorious French La Resistance. In Belarussia, there were partisans, that signifantly hindered German plans. Nothing of that scale was in Poland or France, or other parts of occupied Europe (except Serbia).

    • Replies: @Peakhunter
    , @jimmyriddle
  72. The most important things to remember about Adolph Hitler and WW 2 in general is that virtually everything most Westerners think they know about either, was produced and fed to them by a news and entertainment industry that’s wholly owned and operated by Zionist Jews.

    • Agree: Rurik, jacques sheete
    • Replies: @rerevisionist
  73. Escher says:
    @nebulafox

    Indian was not exactly a hospitable clime for the average Englishman.
    Russia, on the other hand is in the same latitudinal region as Germany.

  74. Escher says:

    British historian convicted of denying the Holocaust, sentenced to 3 years.

    If the holocaust really happened, why does it need to be defended by all these libel laws? Soon it will be a crime to claim that MLK plagiarized his thesis, or to even hint that the sainted Obama may not have been born in the USA.

    • Replies: @Crimson2
    , @anon111
  75. anonymous[739] • Disclaimer says:

    David Irving is a very talented, honest historian – in the best traditions of British and way back in time Roman historians.

    The key point to remember here is that the official version of World War II is not presented in a fair and balanced historical way.

    Instead the official version has morphed in to a fundamentalist religious myth, consistent with other highly ethno centric religious myths in the Old Testament Bible.

    The 6 Million Gassed Jews Religious Myth is presented as THE Foundation myth of our time, everything and everyone is centered around this myth.

    The 6 Million Gassed Jews myth is TRUE because it’s a Biblical truth and anyone who questions any small portion of this religious myth is smeared and marginalized as religious heretic a:

    “Holocaust Denier”

    An unbeliever.

    Monty Python made a great scene in “The Life of Brian” about what happened to religious heretics, blasphemers in this community during the time Jesus came to shake up the corrupt religious orthodoxy

    The Powers that be stoned religious heretics to death:

    Like other religious myths in the Old Testament (Parting of the Red Sea), the 6 Million gassed Jews myth is based on real historical events. Yes, of course ethnic Jews were persecuted and lots of Jewish people died in World War II – but the official 6 Million Gassed Jews myth has so many clear lies, distortions, exaggerations etc.

    All honest historians or just regular people who studied World War II and the aftermath concede that no Jewish people were gassed to death in camps in Germany, the gas chambers at places like Dachau were built after the war ended.

    It’s also reality that everything rough, bad that the German NS, Whermacht did in World War II, the Soviets also did. The soviets had hundreds of slave labor camps in their Gulag where millions died – the Soviets under orders of NKVD chief Levanti Beria did slaughter the Polish Officer Corp in the Katyn Forrest. This terrible war crime was long denied or blamed on the Germans.

  76. Irving isn’t a historian. Writing about historical events does not make one a historian. Being a historian requires certain skills, specifically skills to do with evaluating evidence. Irving very obviously lacks these and is highly selective, preferring whatever suits his preconceptions. He doesn’t write history; he writes propaganda.

  77. David Irving is not a man of fantastic integrity at all. He is a liar and a crank. And for God’s sake, stop portraying him as some kind of Holocaust revisionist. David Irving even believes in the six million figure (source:

    ). He won’t ever debate revisionists on the Holocaust and frequently lies about his opponent’s views. For example, in his ‘Talking Frankly’-video, he claims that revisionists don’t believe the Operation Reinhardt-camps (Treblinka, Sobibor and Belzec) existed! (source:

    @ 1:40:46-1:40:57).

    For a more in-depth analysis of Irving and the Holocaust, read this: https://codoh.com/library/document/4061/?lang=en

    • Replies: @tac
  78. nickels says:

    I’ve read three of Irving’s books and had the pleasure to dine with him and a few others on his American tour. I have a number of his other books waiting for a gray winter stretch to read. It is always amazing to read about WW 2 and especially the Reich. Whatever mistakes the knuckleheaded Germans made (thanks to the EU for another chance at the neurotic Reich), their dedication, sincerity and aesthetic was unrivaled except, perhaps, by the Romans or Greeks.
    Irving’s works translate this glory appropriately, unlike the other lying or cucked or deceitful Anglo or Jewish historians.
    I have little doubt that Irving’s take is far closer to the truth than other accounts, otherwise why would the rabies flare up so violently amongst the liars, and why would the man play marytr for his views?
    Once again, the Jews defeated themselves, like the soldiers who burned their own grain in the siege of Jerusalem.
    Kudos to the one Englishman who respected his Germanic brothers enough to tell something closer to the truth than all the rest.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  79. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jake

    Did your grandfather die before he could teach you to put some energy into thinking for yourself with some precision and to draw distinctions?

    So Hitler and Stalin were only “amoral”? Is that what you think about having old colleagues murdered as in the Night of the Long Knives or the massive purges by Stalin, or when you think of Hitler’s genocidal approach to dealing with Jews, Gypsies and Slavs – or Stalin’s Katyn Massacre of Polish officers etc. etc.? Churchill allowed himself to be voted out of office in 1945. Not much evidence of Stalin’s or Hitler’s “power-ravenous” character there.

    • Replies: @Jake
    , @Anon
  80. Ron, I was about to send this to historian friends because, like you, I was greatly impressed by the point about Lipstadt’s team validating the accuracy of his work. The trouble is, as at least one commenter has pointed out, that what he leaves out may be the main problem. Of course Lipstadt’s researchers should have been able to catch him out on omissions unless he was very careful and precise, not to say effecrively devious. But maybe he was?

  81. Jake says:
    @Anon

    Here’s a distinction for you: that Dean Corll did not kill as many as did Ted Bundy does not mean that Corll was not at least as much a monster at heart as was Bundy. Corll would have had as much fun as Bundy if he had been in the same situations allowing him to get away with more.

  82. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    If Churchill had confined himself to the murder of senior government officials, the world and the British Empire would have greatly benefited.

    Okay, tongue partly in cheek.

  83. c matt says:
    @Jake

    It was a Tribe issue benefiting the Tribe narrative. The other groups are Tribe patsies/under Tribe rule. So no, the Tribe does not get even a partial pass by pointing out they had non-Tribe lackeys.

  84. @nebulafox

    ‘…That I disagree with Irving on Hitler’s responsibility of the Holocaust, needless to say, doesn’t mean I think he should be silenced or arrested or threatened with death for sticking to his historical opinions. I also agree with Irving insofar as Auschwitz is too overly focused on. By the time Auschwitz reached peak killing capacity in 1944, when the Jews of Hungary flooded into the complex, the real dirty work had already been done in the opening year of Operation Barbarossa, where the German military was explicitly ordered to treat all Jews as de facto Communist partisans. The old heart of the Jewish pale had been annihilated, never to return. Then there’s Operation Reinhard. Auschwitz was, in many ways, a grim coda to the Final Solution.’

    All this I agree with — or rather to be precise, I simply don’t attach much significance to the question of whether Auschwitz was or wasn’t central to the Holocaust. The Holocaust happened — that’s the central point, and it’s astonishing that people can seriously dispute that.

    As to Hitler’s precise degree of culpability, I think the question needs to be examined more carefully than it has been. It’s not true that nothing happened in the Third Reich that Hitler was unaware of. We can start with Speer’s methodical sabotaging of Hitler’s ‘scorched earth’ directives in the last months of the war — and the willing collaboration he met with throughout the Nazi power structure. Then there were the various armament directives that were simply ignored, and finally the numerous examples of generals disregarding his orders or dragging their heels about implementing them. Hitler’s will could be — and was — flouted. Moreover, by the beginning of 1942 — when the Holocaust began to be formally and universally implemented — Hitler was concerning himself almost exclusively with the war. He could genuinely have ignored such questions as implementing a Final Solution.

    Then too, was Hitler unwilling to issue orders for such acts as the Holocaust? I’ve read he did in fact explicitly endorse the euthanasia program. He issued the Commissar order. He calmly discussed his rather horrific intentions for the inhabitants of Moscow and Leningrad. He issued the Commando order. So where’s the pattern of Hitler not stating his wishes? Does it exist, or is it merely a convenient formula for assuring ourselves that he ‘really’ wanted the Holocaust to happen? After all, innocent Hitler really would set the cat among the pigeons.

    My guess is that Hitler did know and did at least tacitly approve. However, rather than simply leaping to the assumption that this was so because we find it preferable to the alternative, the question could do with some dispassionate analysis. At the moment, we’re caught between conventional historiography — which is still mired in the ‘Hitler as arch-fiend’ paradigm — and the opinions of such figures as David Irving — and Irving does suffer from a thinly veiled case of Hitler-admiration. Neither side is going to give us a satisfying answer to the question. The first group will reflexively insist Hitler must have known and approved, while conversely Irving would seem to be equally unlikely to consider that it may have indeed been so.

  85. hrk1 says:
    @James N. Kennett

    This is a man that was harassed and (professionally) destroyed over a couple decades so if he throws out a little invective that’s not going to be my primary concern. That’s not going to be surprising, perfectly natural. Based upon what I’ve seen he has shown remarkable restraint over the years, but I must admit I’m really just discovering David Irving. I’ve been lied to my entire life.

  86. @All we like sheep

    Thank you. You just did.

    I’m not surprised. June 6th stands as clear historical evidence that American, British, and Canadian men, technology, firepower, and leadership were key and necessary in the defeat of Nazi Germany.

    June 6th is also a complete success of planning and execution. It may have been confused, slow, bloody and even disastrous in a few places for some time – but it worked. Eight months later they were in Germany at a minimum of casualties for that war against the Germans.

    The Russians couldn’t pull that off now, nevermind in 1944.

    But here at UNZ, American and British contributions are conflated with a nonexistent “myth” supposedly promoted in the West that they did everything.

    Mentioning the reality and importance of D-Day offends Russian sensibilities. It runs against the fantasy narrative provided by The Saker and Andrei Martyanov. We can’t have that. The Russians have too many anti-Western resentments as it is.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @jilles dykstra
    , @Mike P
  87. Rurik says:
    @nickels

    Kudos to the one Englishman who respected his Germanic brothers enough to tell something closer to the truth than all the rest.

    yep

    and kudos to the proprietor of this site as well, for taking on the same enemies of truth that have hounded Mr. Irving for so long.

    One reason that most of us still believe that the West remains a free society is that Our American Pravda works so hard to conceal the important exceptions.

    Germans have been scourged for generations as congenitally evil people for committing crimes they never committed. Just like the Palestinians today, are relentlessly demonized.

    Whether it’s Bolsheviks or Zionists, it’s the same vicious, genocidal hatred and all-pervasive lies.

    Right now Putin is in their crosshairs, and so all we get, from the length and breath of the Western world, are lies.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  88. @Verymuchalive

    Shades of Oscar Wilde’s fatal * foray into British libal laws….
    * Fatal in the sense that imprisonment destroyed his health.

  89. @nebulafox

    Like most people, you start from a “prove to me it didn’t happen” perspective. The Nuremberg Military Tribunal codified the narrative and gave it a veneer of authenticity.
    The only times there have been an authentic challenge to the extermination was during Ernst Zundel’s trials in 1985. With the full weight of the Canadian Government and a hostile judge, Zundel was prosecuted for distributing false news by publishing the pamphlet “Did Six Million Really Die?”
    Every single witness the prosecution brought forward was discredited including Rudolf Vrba the pathological liar, whose hearsay evidence was the basis for the Nuremberg Trials and Raul Hilberg, author of The Destruction of The European Jews.
    Among those testifying on behalf of the defense were two former Auschwitz inmates, one Joseph Burg. a Jew who said there were no homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz. There were other defense witnesses as well, including Irving, and Fred Leuchter, who designed gas chambers for US prisons.
    The transcript is here: https://archive.org/stream/1985ZndelTrialTranscript/1985Z%C3%BCndelTrialTranscript#page/n697/mode/2up
    Hilberg’s testimony in chief begins on page 699 and the cross examination on page 782 of the PDF

    Any serious investigation of murder has to start with forensic evidence. In the case of the “Holocaust”, there is none. In fact the US Army sent Dr. Charles Larson, one of America’s leading forensic pathologists, as part of a US War Crimes Investigation Team, Dr. Larson performed autopsies at Dachau and some twenty other German camps. and was questioned by US Army prosecutors.

    What did Dr. Larson’ conclude? In an 1980 newspaper interview Larson said: “What we’ve heard is that six million Jews were exterminated. Part of that is a hoax.” Dr. Larson, who told his biographer that to his knowledge he was the only forensic pathologist on duty in the entire European Theater of Allied military operations, confirmed that never was a case of poison gas uncovered. What was found was typhus. So, no bodies, no murder weapon, but guilty as charged.

    There is absolutely no evidence Hitler wanted Jews exterminated. If he did, he would have put them in German cities that were being flattened by Allied bombing rather than safe camps. Would Himmler have sent a notice to Camp Commandants demanding that death rates due to typhus be lowered? Why? so the efficiency crazed Germans couls spend money to “gas” them?
    There is also intentional mis-translation of the German word “ausrotten”. It is literally “out root” or in English “root out”. While it can be applied to extermination of pests, that is a secondary specific contextual translation.

    Start from the beginning to build a case, not the end.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @jilles dykstra
  90. @timothy

    From memory i think you are spot on with your views on AJP Taylor.

  91. Hu Mi Yu says:
    @Anon

    It’s the word salad of an AI bot.

    • Replies: @Anon
  92. Sam Shama says:
    @Colin Wright

    Great comment; its premise proposes an honest study of Irving’s works against some of the better-known sources. I am certainly no history buff, yet having read Shirer from cover to cover twice, including a portion of the meticulous references, find it even more intriguing to compare and contrast.

    Now I need to find the time.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Incitatus
  93. Tyrion 2 says: • Website

    In 1993, Deborah Lipstadt, a rather ignorant and fanatic professor of Theology and Holocaust Studies (or perhaps “Holocaust Theology”) ferociously attacked him in her book as being a “Holocaust Denier,” leading Irving’s timorous publisher to suddenly cancel the contract for his major new historical volume. This development eventually sparked a rancorous lawsuit in 1998, which resulted in a celebrated 2000 libel trial held in British Court.

    That legal battle was certainly a David-and-Goliath affair, with wealthy Jewish movie producers and corporate executives providing a huge war-chest of $13 million to Lipstadt’s side, allowing her to fund a veritable army of 40 researchers and legal experts, captained by one of Britain’s most successful Jewish divorce lawyers. By contrast, Irving, being an impecunious historian, was forced to defend himself without benefit of legal counsel

    I don’t get it. Irving sued someone for calling him names and yet Irving is a free speech hero?

    Furthermore, how can you say he was defending himself when he initiated the action?

    Wasn’t it his defeat that was a victory for free speech?

  94. Wally says:
    @nebulafox

    said:
    “One of those highly un-PC things to mention: your chances of survival in German hands as a Soviet POW in the autumn of 1941 were probably slimmer than if you were an Ostjude, let alone a continental Jew. They just put them into great open compounds and let them starve, or used them as testing subjects for the gas chambers. Why Western pop history consistently ignores this, I’ll leave up to your own conclusions.”

    You mean like the Allied POW camps for Germans?

    Show us the proof for your laughable:
    “or used them as testing subjects for the gas chambers. ”

    You cannot.

    That reads like nonsense from Zionist controlled Wikipedia. LOL

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  95. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    said:
    “I simply don’t attach much significance to the question of whether Auschwitz was or wasn’t central to the Holocaust. The Holocaust happened — that’s the central point, and it’s astonishing that people can seriously dispute that.”

    But there is a serious “dispute” / debunking and there’s nothing you can do about it.
    We notice you cannot produce proof.
    Of course you dodge Auschwitz, the alleged center of it all, because you cannot refute the research which simply shatters the claims of the impossible ‘holocaust’ narrative.

    Try these and learn:
    Holocaust Handbooks, Documentaries, & Videos

    http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1

    and:
    The Einsatzgruppen Trial’ / from the journal, Inconvenient History.

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11791

    http://www.codoh.com

    Cheers.

  96. Sean says:

    I would read his books, and then buy Stolfi’s one on Hitler for fuller understanding of Hitlers strategy and methods. The Psychopathic God by Waite is very, very good on Hitler the man. Uprising was Irving’s best book. He has playfully raised the possibility for years, and some people who know Irving well have said his mother (a published author) was Jewish*.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2012/10/blackmail-bribery-and-bullying/

    In 1900 Jews made up about 25 per cent of the Budapest population, and once abroad they hit the world with great force, whether in Hollywood or in nuclear physics (the memoirs of Arthur Koestler are a testimony to their drive and adaptability, as well as to their sense of humour). [he was revealed to be a serial rapist after his death].

    There is a black story involved, just the same: their role in the Communist takeover between 1945 and 1948. Anne Applebaum does not evade this question, nasty as it is: the four leading figures were Jews, chief among them, Mátyás Rákosi. Their children sometimes became dissidents*, and in the later Seventies this led to an extraordinary business. The then (Jewish) cultural boss, Tamás Aczél, sought to discredit them, and allowed David Irving of all people into the archives to study the phenomenon of anti-Semitism in the Revolution of 1956. The resulting book, Uprising, said divisive things, but what on earth was Irving doing in the Communist Party archives in the first place?

  97. Wally says:
    @Johnny Rico

    Get serious.

    The D-Day invasion force faced but a fragment of the German Army, which was overwhelmingly deployed on the eastern front.
    And even with that the ‘Allies’ had, very great difficulties against the bare bones German force.
    Had the Allies faced anything close to what the Germans had at the eastern front, the Allies would have been slaughtered.
    Facts are the facts. Cheers.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  98. Crimson2 says:
    @Wally

    Two guy with shovels could end the rise of Holocaust Revisionism overnight.

    Lol. You would immediately claim that the two men were Mossad agents and the shovels were provided by George Soros. There is no obligation to provide evidence for evil, twisted morons like you.

    • Replies: @Wally
  99. @Wally

    “Had the Allies faced anything close to what the Germans had at the eastern front, the Allies would have been slaughtered.
    Facts are the facts.”

    And there is your mental illness. Right there.

    That is called a counter-factual. So – not facts.

    • Replies: @Wally
  100. bossel says:

    In 2005, Irving took a quick visit to Austria, having been invited to speak before a group of Viennese university students. Shortly after his arrival, he was arrested at gunpoint by the local Political Police on charges connected with some historical remarks he had made 16 years earlier on a previous visit to that country, although those had apparently been considered innocuous at the time. Initially, his arrest was kept secret and he was held completely incommunicado

    He was arrested on 11 Nov 2005. On the same day this was communicated on his own website:

    http://www.fpp.co.uk/Austria/arrest_2005/first_press_release.html

    & this “Political Police” was actually the Autobahnpolizei (~ highway patrol).

    https://www.wienerzeitung.at/nachrichten/archiv/126020_Rechtsextremist-David-Irving-verhaftet.html

    https://www.n-tv.de/politik/David-Irving-in-Wien-in-U-Haft-article164160.html

    https://derstandard.at/2246328/Skandalhistoriker-Irving-in-Haft

  101. Wally says:
    @Crimson2

    That’s it? That’s your response? LOL

    The fact is that the cat is out of the bag and there is nothing you can do about it.
    You will never be the same.

    No proof, no ‘holocaust’.

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Crimson2
  102. SEATAF says:

    I’m seeing Richard Evans being denounced, but his book “Lying About Hitler” is awfully persuasive in laying out the case for Irving’s tendentiousness and carelessness with inconvenient data. Moreover, while Ron Unz and others describe the case as one of David versus Goliath, Irving was the plaintiff. There was no good reason for him to sue Team Lipstadt or to press on with the case once he saw the forces being gathered for the defense.

  103. A reply to Ron Unz.
    “Perhaps I am demonstrating my ignorance, but I am not aware of any similar case of a leading international scholar who suffered such a dire fate for quietly stating his historical opinions, even during in darkest days of Stalinist Russia or any of the other totalitarian regimes of the twentieth century.”
    Look into work and life of Henry Elmer Barnes.

  104. Wally says:
    @Sam Shama

    Sam Shama puts all of his Zionist faith in shyster & Zionist (a redundancy) William (human soap) Shirer. LOL
    The same slimy Zionist & homophobe William Shirer, claimed that many ‘Nazis’ were homosexuals. But then Shirer laughably claims the ‘Nazis exterminated homosexuals just for being homosexual’.
    see:
    The Myth of Nazi Extermination of Homosexuals: http://www.cwporter.com/homo.htm
    Gypsies and Homosexuals in the Camps: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1894
    Homosexuals – Yad Vashem: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1930

    Next, everyone, read these and see liar & Zionist (another redundancy) William (human soap) Shirer debunked from head to toe:

    https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=shirer+rise+fall

    http://www.codoh.com

  105. Wally says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Below is where free speech on the impossible ‘holocaust’ storyline is illegal, violators go to prison for Thought Crimes.
    An obvious admission that the storyline doesn’t stand up to scientific, logical, & rational scrutiny.
    http://www.codoh.com

    • Troll: Tyrion 2
    • Replies: @Wally
  106. @Wally

    Great pictures.
    About a million German POW’s were killed:
    James Bacque, ´Der geplante Tod, Deutsche Kriegsgefangene in amerikanischen und französischen Lagern 1945 – 1946, Frankfurt/M, 1989, 1994 (Other losses, Toronto, 1989)
    Lindbergh describes the terrible conditions
    Charles A. Lindbergh, ´The Wartime Journals of Charles A. Lindbergh’, New York, 1970
    Confirmation too in
    Paul Bonnecarrère, ´Par le sang versé, La Legion étrangère en Indochine’ , Paris, 1968, 2006
    Slow death in the French camps could be avoided by joining the French Legion Etrangere

  107. @SEATAF

    Deborah Lipstadt, ‘Denying the holocaust’, 1993, New York

  108. Crimson2 says:
    @Escher

    I agree that stupidity should not be a crime. But anti-Holocaust denial laws are not evidence against the Holocaust itself. They are in fact protections against Nazism, which turned out badly even for Nazis. Just ask Goebbels’ six children.

  109. Wally says:
    @Johnny Rico

    That’s it? That’s your response? LOL

    No wonder you and your indoctrinated are falling behind.

    You will never be the same.

    http://www.codoh.com

  110. JohnZ says:

    By now it should be plain to anyone with a still free mind, the holocaust is a massive hoax. Why else would the jues want laws passed to persecute anyone who disputes their ridiculous claims.
    The European jue is not Jewish at all. They are Ashkanazi kazarian/ zionists who believe they are God’s chosen people along with the equally ridiculous claim on Palestine. These are the same creeps who brought communism to Russia, murdered millions of Russians and nearly destroyed it economically. The truth is the Euro Jue is communist / marxist in practice all the while crying victimhood.
    David Irving is the true victim of juish persecution, and we all know the type: the ones who stab you in the back and cry out in pain.
    Lipstat is the quintessential zionist mouth piece, Like Rita katz and Pam Geller both of whom are zionist propagandists. None of them have any respect for the truth.
    David irving’s persecution is typical of what happens to you when you dispute the juish narrative. Say anything that even remotely questions the holohoax and you get into deep trouble. Why? The answer is if the real truth were made public, support for that nasty little zionist s***hole, israel, would fall to zero. The jues could no longer claim to be perpetual victims and they would have to sulk off .
    One has to question whether the European nations are under their own rule or that of israel. It is obvious: it is israel that calls the shots. Or else. One of their politicians is assassinated or one of their building blown up or a plane gets shot down just to teach them a lesson. Defy israel at your own risk. Otherwise a nuke just may go off in downtown Paris or Berlin

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  111. @Johnny Rico

    In mid 1944 the war was nearly over.
    How could Germany resist USA industrial weapons production ?
    Richard Overy, ‘Why the allies won’, New York, London, 1995
    How could it fight a two front war ?
    D day was in general well planned, it was not too difficult to execute, against an already weak enemy, practically without an air force.
    Yet, one artificial harbour of the two was destroyed in a storm, bombs fell far inland, floating tanks sank nearly all.
    Despite the overwhelming superiority in forces Germany fought on for nearly a year.

  112. Wally says:
    @SEATAF

    said:
    “’m seeing Richard Evans being denounced, but his book “Lying About Hitler” is awfully persuasive in laying out the case for Irving’s tendentiousness and carelessness with inconvenient data.”

    Then please tell us about Evans’ alleged “persuasive case” against Irving. Specifics please.
    We wait.

    Drawn in ‘Auschwitz Jews being marched to gas chambers’, ON A ROOF.
    http://www.codoh.com

  113. @Geraldo Kaprosy

    Beard, Hoggan, Bavendamm, Schultze Rhonoff

  114. @Crimson2

    What life would they have had ?
    Even the wife of Von Stauffenberg could not stand historians any more
    Konstanze von Schulthess, ´Nina Schenk Gräfin von Stauffenberg, Ein Porträt’, München 2009

  115. Crimson2 says:
    @Tyrion 2

    You’re forgetting that Ron Unz is a dishonest hack.

  116. @Curmudgeon

    J.G. Burg, Schuld und Schicksal, Europas Juden zwischen Henkern und Heuchlern, München, 1962
    Burg, nom de plume for Ginsberg, indeed was at the Nüremberg show, but does not state that he testified.
    However, he indeed denies the gas chambers.
    And he describes the self management of the camps.
    The chairman of theUSA High Court said to Frankfurter that Nüremberg was a farce, and that Frankfurter did not go there as a judge, but as a jew.
    Bruce Allen Murphy, ‘The Brandeis/Frankfurter Connection, The Secret Political Activities of Two Supreme Court Justices’, New York, 1983

  117. Crimson2 says:
    @Wally

    No, that’s not it. Here’s the rest: you deserve the fate of a WW2 jew.

    No one owes your ignorant ass an explanation. Fuck off with the flat earthers.

  118. utu says:
    @DFH

    Who does all the whining about Coventry in UK? Pacifists and left-wingers only?

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @DFH
  119. Unzerker says:
    @AHA

    Irving claims he found documents where Hans Aumeier, deputy commander of Auschwits, admits to gassing the Jews who came in but were unfit to work. This was done in two small houses that no longer exist.

    He found this evidence in 1992, well before the trial.

    watch it here at 1:35:37

    The entire video is worth watching

  120. @JohnZ

    The Khazar connection now is in two books
    Shlomo Sand, ‘The Invention of the Jewish People’, London, New York, 2009, 2010 (Tel Aviv, 2008, hebrew)
    Kevin Alan Brook, ‘The Jews of Khazaria’, Northvale NJ, 1999
    The second book, in my opinion, tries to soften the blow.
    However, I’m not in a position to say that it lies.
    History at the time is hardly known, even scholars who spent their whole lives at the period acknowledge that they often do not know:
    Otto J. Maenchen-Helfen, ‘ The world of the Huns’, 1973 Berkeley
    The last book is about the period around the year 400 CE, but I suppose not much more is known about the time of the Khazar conversion, a few hundred years later.
    About this conversion, not clear if just the Khazar leaders converted, or a complete people.

  121. @nebulafox

    A relatively sane comment, in the context of this site.

  122. @Colin Wright

    ” By the time Auschwitz reached peak killing capacity in 1944, when the Jews of Hungary flooded into the complex ”
    How Eichmann accomplished this with fifty men in the months of juli and august, when Germany was desperately short of railway capacity, astonishes anyone with some experience in logistics.

    Then there is
    Neufeld and Berenbaum, editors ‘The bombing of Auschwitz’, 2000, New York
    The book has as an appendix the minutes of a meeting of the Jewish Agency in Jerusalem, USA consul present.
    The meeting was in the autumn of 1944, when the Auschwitz factories were bombed from N Italy.
    The question was ‘should the camps be bombed ?’.
    Decision, ‘no, jews might be killed’.

  123. Rurik says:
    @Crimson2

    But anti-Holocaust denial laws are not evidence against the Holocaust itself. They are in fact protections against Nazism,

    wow

    you actually said something true!

    all the Holocaust hysteria is intended not just to make shekels out of the Shoah, or act as a “defense” for the atrocities committed against Germans and others after the war was over…

    but more to the point, this enforced dogma is intended to morally eviscerate any and all people’s of European heritage (Nazis) from ‘ever again’ resisting the nefarious agenda of the Fiend.

    Germany doesn’t want millions of Muslims and Africans?

    no problem, just call them Nazis and say “Holocaust”

    the Pavlovian conditioning will do the rest.

    French or British don’t want to commit suicide and see their daughters raped wholesale?

    just call them “racists”, invoke the Holocaust and they’ll wet their knickers on cue.

    even us Yankee are guilty. Look at all the Holocaust museums we’re forced to fund, and pay homage to.

    But it seems like it doesn’t work as good on us Yanks as it does on the Germans and other Euros.

    Now they’re calling Russian nationalist- Putin = Hitler

    they’re so desperate to enforce their power paradigm and decades long blood libels, that they’ve become schizophrenic in their hysterics.

    how will it all play out?

  124. anon111 says:
    @Escher

    Soon it will be a crime to claim that MLK plagiarized his thesis….

    i have wondered about the reason for the push to refer to him as Dr. instead of Reverend

    maybe has something to do with his now revealed sexual activities – not much of a Reverend

  125. @Crimson2

    All true, but we should welcome the news that Unz and Irving’s reputations are now tethered to each other, the better that they may sink together.

    • Disagree: iffen
    • Replies: @annamaria
  126. hyperbola says:
    @conatus

    What is conveniently and consistently overlooked is this (see the enclosed map – about 15% of the land and 10% of the population of Germany was involved):

    Treaty Of Versailles

    http://polandpoland.com/treaty_versailles.html

    The Treaty of Versailles, signed in the Versailles Palace outside Paris on June 28, 1919, between the Allied Powers and Germany, brought World War I to an end. In this treaty Poland was given complete independence, control over large areas of land populated by Germans, and an outlet to the sea. To give Poland access to the Baltic Sea a ‘corridor’ was created by passing control of the German provinces of Posen and West Prussia to Poland. In the process East Prussia was separated from the rest of Germany. Poland also gained half of Silesia. Danzig was made a free city under the control of the League of Nations. The German government signed the treaty under protest. These changes mean that huge numbers of Germans were now under foreign rule. These changes decided on at Versailles were to create major problems in later years and become one of the major reasons for Germany’s invasion of Poland in 1939…..

    As for FDR, most Americans do not know of the long association of his family with the jewish narcotraffickers and bankers of the “city of london”.

    The Jewish Opium Trade and Britain

    http://satyricon20.tripod.com/sat33-Sassoon.htm

    …. Franklin D. Roosevelt’s fortune was inherited from his maternal grandfather Warren Delano. In 1830 he was a senior partner of Russell & Company. It was their merchant fleet which carried Sassoon’s opium to China and returned with tea.

    Warren Delano moved to Newburgh, N.Y. In 1851 his daughter Sara married a well born neighbor, James Roosevelt – the father of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. He always knew the origin of the family fortune but refused to discuss it.

    The Sassoon opium trade brought death and destruction to millions and still plagues Asia to this day. Their company was totally operated by Jews ONLY! The corrupt British monarchy honored them with privilege and knighthood – to the disgrace of the Crown! To this day the Sassoons are in the history books as “great developers” of India but the source of their vast wealth is never mentioned!
    ____________________________________________________

    • Replies: @anon111
    , @jacques sheete
  127. Hitler announced as early as 1922 his intention to hang every Jew in Germany from specially erected gallows and let them dangle until they stank, at which point they would be cut down and another lot of them hanged. Whether this indicated long-range planning on his part or was just an expression of his hatreds is a moot point. He was of course far from power in 1922.

  128. @JackOH

    JackOH…

    If you really want a completely different take on WWII, read David Hoggan’s, “The Forced War”.

    By the time you finish reading this rather difficult but fascinating tome, you will be looking for the nearest recruiting station to enlist in the Wehrmacht…

    • Replies: @JackOH
    , @bj
    , @jacques sheete
  129. @Unzerker

    What David Irving fails to mention in that segment is that Aumeier was held in the so-called London Cage, where torture was widely used to extract confessions from the prisoners. And Irving knows this, because he wrote about it in a letter to Mark Weber:

    Working in the Public Record Office yesterday, I came across the 200 page handwritten memoirs, very similar in sequence to the Gerstein report versions of an SS officer, Aumeier, who was virtually Höss’s deputy. They have just been opened for research. He was held in a most brutal British prison camp, the London Cave (the notorious Lieutenant Colonel A Scotland). These manuscripts are going to be a problem for revisionists and need analysing now in advance of our enemies and answering. I attach my transcript of a few pages and you will see why. It becomes more lurid with each subsequent version. At first no gassings, then 50, then 15,000 total. Brute force by interrogators perhaps.

    Source: http://www.fpp.co.uk/Legal/Penguin/transcripts/day014.htm

    And instead of telling you that revisionists doubt Aumeier’s account because he was likely tortured, the liar Irving here pretends that there is some kind of dispute about the authenticity of the papers, which is of course pure rubbish:

    So these gassings did occur, if you accept that these papers aren’t fake, and I don’t believe for a moment they are fake.

    @ 1:38:02

    • Replies: @tac
  130. @jilles dykstra

    Shipping Jews “to the East” involved rolling stock that might have been more rationally used transporting troops and supplies to the Eastern Front, but if you factor in Nazi demonology, namely that a 10-year-old Jew was as dangerous as or more dangerous than, say, an armed Red Army soldier, it all falls into place.

  131. @timothy

    A very shrewd assessment of AJP Taylor, Timothy. Thanks for posting.

  132. Tyrion 2 says: • Website
    @jilles dykstra

    Apologies for not having a source but I was quite reliably informed that each German soldier was worth 1.5 Brits after the D-Day landings for the purposes of force ratio calculations.

    • Replies: @Anon
  133. @timothy

    Indeed, this topic calls for Irving’s specific claims to be examined. It is easy enough to object to the British libel system (even while acknowledging that the suit was entirely Irving’s fault) and that Irving is far from “an authoritative source of WWII interpretation.”

  134. An astonishingly good–even gripping–intro to, and review of, David Irving’s life and work. Astonishingly good because it is so well-balanced. And one finds so little of that balance in contemporary reviews of historical/sociological/psychological/cultural and literary works. Our “culture” has degenerated into a sad era of partisan sniping and group-thinking.

    Mr. Unz takes a brave stance here opposing the simplistic, while proposing alternative viewpoints and history. Mr. Irving has engaged in such heroic practices for most of his 80 years. Mr. Unz notes that he can think of few modern historians who have suffered as Mr. Irving has as a result of the conclusions his careful and meticulous research led him to publish, proclaim and defend. (Of course, one might mention Julian Assange as another person who has suffered grievously because of his beliefs. And, of course, there were heroes assassinated for their beliefs–under mysterious conditions!–like JFK, RFK, MLK and Malcom X! Incidents that still need probing by great minds like that of Mr. Irving. Indeed, I thought back to heroic figures like Socrates, Jesus of Nazareth, Galileo, Copernicus who took on the establishmentarian sacred cows of their day–with painful and sometimes fatal consequences–to match Irving’s persistence, courage and intellectual acuity and probity.)

    Thank you, Mr. Unz; and much thanks to you, Mr. Irving!

    Gary Corseri

    • Agree: anarchyst
  135. joe webb says:

    At a WN conference a few years ago, I observed David Irving say to another male, “how would you like to get a piece of this,” nodding his head in the direction of his attractive blonde female assistant who was a few feet away.

    Since I did not know the general context of the conversation, I said nothing, but remained on alert if more of the same followed. I was prepared to take action if it did. It did not.

    Later , on a chat list of the same group, the blonde female in question responded to my criticisms of Irving, and thanked me for getting it onto the chat list. She subsequently quit Irving and his book flogging at various WN events.

    Irving was declared persona non grata at future conferences.

    He should get into the Me-Too conversation and maybe can Apologize.

    All the nazi stuff, etc. Irving is a nazi, it is just that. I read a couple of his books…biggest problem IMHO, is I could not see the forest for the trees.
    Joe Webb

  136. renfro says:
    @timothy

    ”…. discuss Irving’s specific claims that were (and are) rejected by the historical establishment?

    And what ‘historical establishment” would that be?….Jewish historians?…..the same ones as Shomo Sands said “invented’ the Jewish people and their mystical history?..lol

  137. @Verymuchalive

    After his book about the Bombing of Dresden, which came out in 1962, Irving became a marked man as far as the Establishment were concerned.

    That doesn’t say much for the power of the Establishment, then. Irving spent the next 30+ years living in Mayfair and driving a Rolls-Royce.

    His problems began in 1996 with the lawsuit he started.

    • Replies: @Anon
  138. Karl says:
    @Colin Wright

    32 Colin Wright > [David Irving] insists there is no evidence that Hitler ordered the Holocaust

    i am ready to accept such as true.

    Still…… why all the energy spent on defending the reputation of the guy who put countless Aryan German youths in harms way in Russia? Hannah Senesh didn’t kill all those German boys.

    what’s RonUnz’s next big venture….. defending the reputation of Merkel??!?

    Jared Kushner has more horse sense than RonUnz does.

  139. renfro says:
    @timothy

    Taylor may have never read Mein Kampf

    Breaking news…..

    Mein Kampf is a Jewish forgery!

    good for goose, good for gander…lol

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  140. anon111 says:
    @hyperbola

    The Sassoon opium trade brought death and destruction to millions and still plagues Asia to this day. Their company was totally operated by Jews ONLY! The corrupt British monarchy honored them with privilege and knighthood – to the disgrace of the Crown! To this day the Sassoons are in the history books as “great developers” of India but the source of their vast wealth is never mentioned!

    the Sassoons apparently fund a “Vidal Sassoon International Center for the Study of Antisemitism”

    they’re trying to understand where it comes from

    • Replies: @European-American
  141. @Anon

    “And above the ground Poles reported Jews to Gestapo to get the spoils and settle in their empty houses.”

    … Which constituted a crime punishable by death by the Polish Underground State. Not to mention that hiding and protecting Jews carried a risk of being executed alongside your family. You obviously didn’t do your research.

    ” Polish Underground is yet another fairy-tale, akin to Glorious French La Resistance”

    Be specific. French Resistance is a myth because it didn’t do shit, while the French eagerly collaborated. Poles fought bravely on every WWII front, cracked the Enigma, provided the Allies with information on the Holocaust by infiltrating the camps, undermined the Germans as much as they could at home, did not collaborate with Hitler at all and ignited an uprising which pissed Hitler off so much he decided to burn Warsaw to the ground.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Anon
  142. “By contrast, Irving, being an impecunious historian, was forced to defend himself without benefit of legal counsel”

    Irving was the one who sued. Lipstadt was the defendant.

  143. schrub says:

    Is this Deja vu all over again? :)

    The mentioning of David Irving plight of several decades ago is laudable and proper but, right now, at this very minute, there is another plan being hatched to bankrupt the one person who is probably (IMO) the most effective critic of Organized Zionism and Israel, Gilad Atzmon.

    How do I know that Atzmon is effective? Why else would they constantly attempt to disrupt every event Atzmon participates in, increasingly resorting to Antifa-like physical attacks, one of the most recent resulting in one of his band members almost losing an eye. For some odd reason no such physical attacks ever occur against Palestine’s “friends” like Noam Chomsky or Amy Goodman? Just a little faux but very respectful picketing to keep up appearances.

    Gilad Atzmon has been sued for libel. The underlying purpose of this suit is simply to bankrupt him, discredit him, and force him into silence. If this lawsuit succeeds Atzmon will then most likely lose his ability to travel anywhere outside of the UK because the results of this suit will be used as an excuse to deny him visas. It will also be used to deny him the music venues that provide him a source of income.

    The lawsuit against Atzmon, like the suit that David Irving most unwisely brought again Deborah Lipstadt, will involve an opposing side working with a veritable ocean of cooperating lawyers and researchers scouring everything Atzmon has ever written or said. (including his supposedly secret phone calls) There will be sooo many attorneys working for the plantiff that the trial will be mistaken for a national lawyer convention. :)

    The plaintiff’s side will then bring in numerous, often famous, witnesses on his behalf attesting to his god-like character. (Is Elton John available? He seems to be willing to appear anywhere if the money is right) Despite Atzmon being probably the single most effective advocate for Palestinian rights, the plaintiff’s side will most likely also bring in its fake, paid for “Palestinian rights advocates” (Ali Abunimah? Mahmoud Abbas?) to prove that Atzmon’s concern for Palestinians isn’t real but simply a cover for his alleged antisemitism.

    It will be the ultimate Stalinist-like “show trial”.

    If you think for a moment that truth (Atzmon) trumps money, think again. Juries will be very carefully selected. complaint judges will be shopped for.

    Think back to the “show” murder trial of sports star O,J. Simpson with its hoards of mysteriously funded, big-name, defense attorneys fighting a prosecution comprised of marginal, government lawyers under the supervision of an almost comically incompetent judge Ito who was overseeing a jury made up of 9 blacks members despite the murder having been committed in very upscale and very white Brentwood , California. Will the jury that is eventually chosen for the upcoming Atzmon libel trial be selected from only the denizens of London’s Hampstead Heath or better yet, Golder’s Green?)

    Simpson didn’t have the money to pay for his extraordinarily expensive all-star defense. It was simply TOO expensive for Simpson to have paid for it. He might have been able to pay for one lawyer but not this herd and their underlings. Someone else paid for it.

    The final verdict was then used to promote the idea that thew trial was simply the result of white (gentile) racism in the black community. Go figure.

    Read about Gilad Atzmon here: (warning: This entry is heavily biased against Atzmon.)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilad_Atzmon

    The many people who openly supported Atzmon with blurbs in his first book “The Wondering Who” will, of course, not be testifying in his behalf at his trial. They will suddenly claim headaches or the common excuse that they didn’t really know how “extreme” he was (probably involving some sort of shock about his “holocaust revisionism” or his “undesirable” friends. )

    The real reason for this reluctance will, of course, be that The Lobby went after these previous supporters (blub-ers) with such blazing fury because of their blurbs they are many are now cowering. (Book publishing contracts were rescinded, paid speaking engagements mysteriously disappeared) He will find that supposed “friends” will suddenly no longer take his calls. How do I know this? Because I got a very wary email response from one of them last week indicating this.

    The late and sainted Joe Sobran lost most of his remaining “friends” (i.e. The crew at The American Conservative Magazine TAC) after he agreed to appear on an “unrespectable” far right wing radio program simply because no other “respectable” program would have on and he decided he wanted to continue to make enough money to eat. The ADL and the SPLC simply demanded that a job offer from TAC to Sobran be rescinded because of his appearance on this show. In effect, they told the leader (Scott Connell?) at The American Conservative to bend over and he simply replied “how far.?)

    A similar thing is now being done to the left wing Palestinian activist (and arch foe of Amy Goodman) Alison Weir for having dared appear on a similarly “unapproved” radio program because no one else would have her on.

    This will be similar to the case of David Irving when similar “friends” made for the exits and refused to testify for him during his own libel trial.

    Such is The Lobby’s fury (and economic clout) that even John Mearsheimer has sought absolution for his sins by getting down on his knees and agreeing to go on the thoroughly reptilian “gatekeeper” Amy Goodman’s “Democracy Now” TV program but only in order to criticise Donald Trump.

    That’s what having to pay your bills will make you do.

    Read about the lawsuit and its rationale here

    http://www.israellycool.com/2018/03/20/antisemite-gilad-atzmon-being-sued-for-libel/

    And another little gem from a review of Atzmon’s book (pay attention to the third comment in particular)

    https://www.amazon.com/Being-Time-Post-Political-Gilad-Atzmon/product-reviews/191107220X/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=one_star&reviewerType=all_reviews#reviews-filter-bar

    • Agree: Cloak And Dagger
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  144. @jilles dykstra

    One of the most ridiculous aspects of the Holocaust fable – human soap and Jew skin lampshades aside – is the Eichmann episode. During months of great difficulties, very limited railway capacity and few underlings to help, he managed to spirit 400,000 Hungarian Jews to Auschwitz, where they were summarily gassed to death.
    Even Leader of the Nation, Ferenc Szalasi, could only kill 10 to 15 thousand Jews, if you believe mainstream historians, despite much greater manpower and resources at his disposal.
    Maybe Eichmann had a special tunnel built between Hungary and Auschwitz or they were transported by invisible airships. Maybe Hitler is still alive in a secret Nazi colony in Antarctica.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @jilles dykstra
  145. renfro says:
    @Jake

    We are all very curious why you defend Jews and hate White Protestant Anglo Saxons.

    Do you hate the WASP because they were elite and rich or just because they were white?
    Are you a ‘poor white’ who has some passed down family grievance against rich or better off people?
    Are you a non anglo Catholic who thinks your religion and family was persecuted by WASP?
    Are you some kind of nutty Christian who thinks WASP ruined Christianity?
    Are you a black who hates anglo whites?
    Are you a Jew who wants to blame anglos for what Jews do?

    There is something stuck in your craw….spit it out.

  146. tac says:
    @FKA Max

    Here is David Irving recalling an attempt at his life by a hit squad (presumably Mossad) while he was in his London Apartment:

    • Replies: @Momus
  147. @Anon

    The Red Army faced almost the entire German army.
    In World War I, most of German army was in France and Belgium.

  148. Wally says:
    @Crimson2

    Right, so ‘stupid’ that you cannot present proof.

    I challenge you to present the names, their exact words, where they supposedly were, & when, of just THREE so called “holocaust survivors”.
    Come on big talker. Do it.

    You dodge because you know you will be made a fool of.

    The ‘holocaust’ storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged supremacist Jews demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.
    Only liars demand censorship.
    http://www.codoh.com

    another recommendation:
    The Auschwitz “Gas Chamber” Illusion by Nicholas Kollerstrom

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9689

  149. Wally says:
    @Wally

    Tyrion 2′s surrender is accepted.
    Yep, being called a ‘troll’ is what happens when the other guy has put both feet into his mouth, is in way over his head. Now, back to work:

    Aerial of Babi Yar ravince at exact time of alleged extermination of 34,000 Jews.We see nothing happening as alleged.
    recommended:
    Excavation Result: No Enormous Human Remains as Alleged at Babi Yar !! … of
    course
    : https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11314
    and:
    ‘ Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments’ http://codoh.com/library/document/920/?lang=en
    and:
    Bodies at Babi Yar, John Gibbons Reporting https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7302
    and:
    Babi Yar ‘massacre’ debunked’ viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Troll: Tyrion 2
  150. JackOH says:
    @Steve Naidamast

    Steve, thanks. My big concern, I think, with WWII and WWI is how complex historical events enter the popular mind of American voters and American opinion leaders. That’s my sales and ad background at work.

    How does the popular conception of WWII abridge or vacate or prejudice American or European political choices today that may be worth talking about? (I don’t know enough about Asia.) Plus, the very real atrocities against Jews have been politically “weaponized” by today’s Zionist Jews and their allies to serve today’s political ends.

    These long comment threads on Stalin and Hitler speak to me at least of some unfinished business with respect to both, and the only way I can think of to put that business to rest is engagement with the popular mind through, for example, a speakers’ series that gets Suvorov’s thesis and Irving’s views out there.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  151. @nebulafox

    “He was also very unstereotypically German in his work style …”

    Maybe that’s because he was an Austrian?

    Irving is writing a biography of Himmler, in which he will attempt to prove that it was he rather than the Fuehrer who initiated the extermination policies.

    • Replies: @Wally
  152. @jilles dykstra

    Hitler’s attack was defensive:

    Of course it was. The Germans had been suffering under the boot heels of the big imperialists for some time, and it was a case of trying to not be further crushed. Too bad they had so much against them.

  153. @DFH

    You are correct. The English ruling class, as I have insisted over on Steve Sailer more than once, is far and away the most amoral and ruthless in Europe.
    War is war, and they fight to win, whatever it takes. And they never fight for a principle, but always and everywhere to stay on top.
    Germany, both in 1914 and then again in 1939, was perilously close to displacing them, and had to be destroyed. Plausible reasons for war were needed, and manufactured.
    As the Duke of Wellington of the time put it on 3rd September 1939 : “This war is the fault of the anti-appeasers and the f*****g Jews”.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @utu
  154. bj says:
    @Steve Naidamast

    http://www.jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Books/David%20Hoggan-The%20Forced%20War.pdf

    Tens of millions of human beings died in WWII. What makes a few million Jews so special?

    The real Holocaust was the rape and murder of 6 million German citizens in Prussia, Pomerania, and Sileasia by the Soviet forces encouraged by the Jewish commissars of the NKVD.

    The real Holocaust was the fire bombing of German cities ordered by Winston Churchill, advised by his Jewish handlers. The fire bombings burned millions of German woman and children to death!

    My father documented the savage destruction of German cities with a shoe box of photographs taken in Germany in 1945. He and my mother, who was Dutch, told a story of the war completely at odds with the Jew control narrative, which is a blood libel against the German People.

    Hellstorm: The Death of Nazi Germany, 1944-1947

  155. iffen says:
    @nebulafox

    and a German dominated Europe is what we’ve got right now anyway.

    True, but these are the good Germans, not the bad kind.

  156. @jilles dykstra

    Sigh. In mid 1944 nobody had any idea when the war would be over. You are saying that now. Duh.

    The invasion of Normandy was a MASSIVE undertaking. You have absolutely no grasp of its size and complexity. That is evident from your 100-word comment.

    The logistics situation regarding both fresh infantry and material on the Allied side remained a huge issue well into 1945.

    The Wehrmacht was the best land army in the world until May 1945. Their skill trading space for time in both Russia and Italy makes this clear. They were tenacious defending their homeland and they had the most talented and experienced general staff.

    What is your point?

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @jilles dykstra
  157. Gordo says:

    Irving did loads of (gasp) original research, which other historians use but don’t attribute. He checked out sources they ignored or were unaware of. His work is original and entertaining and often conclusively torpedoes the accepted narrative, thus damaging establishment historian’s reputations.

    Of course they hate him. Even if he was a Commie they would hate him.

    • Replies: @utu
  158. iffen says:
    @Crimson2

    Ron Unz is a dishonest hack.

    Where is the dishonesty? He apparently has a mission in mind. I can’t get a handle on it, but, dishonest?

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @iffen
  159. Wally says:
    @iffen

    It appears rather obviously that Ron’s mission is to get at the truth.

    Crimson2 will never be the same, whether he likes it or not.

    http://www.codoh.com

  160. utu says:
    @Gordo

    Absolutely. They all should be thanking for work he did. Nobody was better than him in finding new sources. The Jewish project for the word could not accept his work so he had to be destroyed. He put up a fight. Perhaps he should have ignored Deborah Lipstadt and avoid this confrontation and perhaps he would have lasted longer. But they were set to destroy him in any case.

  161. Wally says:
    @Johnny Rico

    The clumsy & blundering Allies would have had no chance against anything close to equal odds at Normandy.

    Recall the Allies at Casserine Pass. A complete disaster at the hands of the Germans.

    You’re out of your league, Jr.

    http://www.codoh.com

  162. wally says:
    @Uebersetzer

    Except Hitler never said that.

    But no doubt Zionists have said he said it.

    http://www.codoh.com

  163. Wally says:
    @Old Palo Altan

    Irving’s been ‘writing’ that book for decades. He’s obviously having problems nailing Himmler for something that never happened.

    What “extermination policies”?

    Please show them to us.

    Please show us the claimed human remains of millions that are claimed to be in known locations.

    See the ‘holocaust’ scam easily & thoroughly debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Colin Wright
  164. tac says:

    Zundel & Irving:

    Irving arrested (Victoria, CA):

    Trials of David Irving:

    David Irving Lipstadt Trial:

    David Irving holocaust myth:

    Christopher Hitchens defends David Irving:

    David Irving 50 Years of fighting for truth, whatever the costs:

    David Irving on smear campaigns to stifle truth in history:

    David Irving on 1956 Hungarian Uprising was an anti-Jewish revolt:

    Jim Rizoli on David Irving:

  165. Anon[145] • Disclaimer says:
    @Crimson2

    What has Ron done that’s dishonest?

  166. Wally says:
    @Verymuchalive

    Indeed, Eichmann made truly ridiculous claims, yet is a ‘holocaust’ rockstar. That’s how desperate the Industry is. recommended:
    Andrew Mathis demolished yet again / his Eichmann challenge

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8033

    just a few examples:

    - Eichmann claims to have witnessed mass slaughter on a grand scale at Auschwitz in the fall of 1941, where the camp commandant, Rudolf Hoess, informed him that the great, factory-like buildings, the chimneys of which belch smoke, are “working to capacity: Ten thousand!”
    This is months before the Auschwitz typhus abatement crematoria were constructed, let alone in use.

    - Eichmann talks of Treblinka – but then he’s not sure if it’s Treblinka - where he says gassings were being carried out with a submarine engine (diesel); he claims at places near Minsk and Lemberg, mass shootings were taking place, including one mass grave from which he said “blood was gushing out … like a geyser”

    - Eichmann even offers substantiation for the six-million claim-he says he’s worked out the numbers from reading ***Jewish almanacs***, he persistently rejects the accusation that he was the organizer of the “Final Solution” or the “flywheel of the extermination machine.”

    - Eichmann explained in graphic detail how, in the death camps, round cotton wool filters were soaked with this poison and thrown into the rooms where the Jews were assembled. The poison was instantly fatal.”

    - He made preposterous statements that the hair of the victims was used to make slippers.

    http://www.codoh.com

  167. Wally says:
    @Peakhunter

    said:
    “provided the Allies with information on the Holocaust by infiltrating the camps”

    You mean Jan Karski’s laughable tall tale about smuggling himself INTO a so called ‘extermination camp’? How did that work? LOL

    Just a couple of Karski’s claims:
    - the Germans used quicklime for mass extermination of Jews
    - trains full of Jews quivered and twitched, their flesh throbbed
    more here: http://www.cwporter.com/karski.htm

    also recommended: the preposterous Jan Karski, a review of his claims

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10078

    Got others?

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  168. bj says:
    @nebulafox

    “One of those highly un-PC things to mention: your chances of survival in German hands as a Soviet POW in the autumn of 1941 were probably slimmer than if you were an Ostjude, let alone a continental Jew. They just put them into great open compounds and let them starve, or used them as testing subjects for the gas chambers. Why Western pop history consistently ignores this, I’ll leave up to your own conclusions.”

    You are repeating the lies of history written by the victors. Are you a useful idiot or just malicious repeating a blood libel against the German People? Research Operation Keelhaul to revise your comic book inversion of the fate of Russian prisoners of war in Germany. FDR gifted Russian prisoners to Stalin where they were murdered by the tens of thousands.

    What you claim is the fate of Russian POWs was in fact the fate of German POWs at the hands of Eisenhower and Stalin.

    And as to the Ostjude….they evacuated to the Soviet Union ahead of advancing German armies.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  169. tac says:
    @David Irving is a BIG Liar

    Care to answer these (or do you need more decades to fabricate more lies)?:

    Your exaggerations and lies are catching up to you …

  170. @hyperbola

    It’s rare to find anyone who knows of the facts in your comment.

    Another area that’s rarely discussed are the facts that the Japanese were beginning to interfere with the opium trade in a couple of ways. First, they were attempting to cultivate their own opium in Manchukuo, and secondly, they were trying to control, limit, and eventually eradicate its recreational uses.

    Now we know more of the story. I wonder why FDR worked so diligently to goad them into a war most of them knew they couldn’t win.

    • Replies: @hyperbola
  171. @Tyrion 2

    Libel and free speech are not synonymous, nor is libel a form of free speech.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  172. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    What DFH is saying is that the definition of a Brit is that “he laughs when he hurts you, and howls when you hurt him”.

    • Replies: @utu
  173. @Geraldo Kaprosy

    “Scholars” are rarely such, so they stick to the party line in general. It’s the muckraking journalists who generally get the heat, like Gareth Jones and Georgi Markov.

  174. @Crimson2

    Here’s the rest: you deserve the fate of a WW2 jew.

    According to David Reed, (Controversy of Zion), most of them did pretty well despite the mythology about their fates.

  175. iffen says:
    @iffen

    Don’t you mean “The Truth“?

  176. @Steve Naidamast

    By the time you finish reading this rather difficult but fascinating tome, you will be looking for the nearest recruiting station to enlist in the Wehrmacht…

    Another one that would have a similar effect on any normal person would be the Germanophobe Bryant’s Unfinished Victory.

    Here’s one of many examples of the unspeakable pressure applied to Germany by the Commie International (which, of course, was funded by certain big money interests in New “Yoik” and London.

    [Crackpots] with criminal records and stormy, prize-fighting characters were spirited out of the underworld and given unofficial protection as agents for the establishment of a [Communist] Rhineland Republic.

    The idea was, by fostering anarchy, to frighten the Germans into acquiescence. Bands of gangsters were conveyed free of charge on French trains to meetings which usually developed into bloody and destructive frays.
    -Arthur Bryant, Unfinfished Victory, pp126-7

    https://archive.org/stream/ArthurBryantUnfinishedVictory1940V1/Arthur%20Bryant%20-%20Unfinished%20Victory%20%281940%29%20-%20v1_djvu.txt

  177. utu says:
    @Anon

    He is not too smart.

  178. Tyrion 2 says: • Website
    @jacques sheete

    Hang on…are you saying that accusing someone of deliberately misrepresenting historical evidence to serve their own ideological position should enable that someone to take you to court?

    Isn’t the type of Holocaust denial that is bandied about here pretty much the most extreme example of that?

    With friends like you, no wonder it’s been made illegal in various countries…

    You guys have some pretty bizarre blindspots.

    • Replies: @Wally
  179. DFH says:
    @utu

    Britons are uniquely wicked in that they care more about their cities being bombed more than about their enemies cities being bombed.

    • Replies: @Anon
  180. Tyrion 2 says: • Website
    @DFH

    Agreed. Affecting compassion over Dresden as a Brit is a useful way to signal social status and that you are a progressive, compassionate good-thinker. Even though, yes, it really was an awful and sad event.

    However, Dresden is what you get when you bomb our cities and send entirely unguided rockets at them. That is, until you surrender. Then we can all move on except for a little barbed humour and some un-pc football chants.

    That lesson, along with the fact that Britain has been on the winning side of practically every major conflict for the 400 odd years since the Union was formed, is one that should be remembered.

    Aggravate the lion and get bit.

  181. @tac

    Okay, here we have yet another one of these braindead morons who doesn’t care to actually READ what it is he is replying to but simply REACTS to individual words he sees as the limbic system in his pathetic little brain lights up.

    • Troll: utu
    • Replies: @tac
  182. @schrub

    Good comments.

    Why else would they constantly attempt to disrupt every event Atzmon participates in, increasingly resorting to Antifa-like physical attacks…

    The Nazis went through that too.

    One of the many nasty tactics used by those with aspirations to rule the world.

  183. He looks angry for some reason.

    Meanwhile, a new Holocaust is a brewin’ that will put this old, tired, worn-out one to shame. It’s about time. We need a new Holocaust. This one we’ve been stuck with for more than 60 years now has long since reached its expiration date and like milk, it’s soured.

    The Yemeni Holocaust

    We often ask, what would we do if there was another Holocaust? Surely we would do something? Surely, at least, we would not be complicit?

    The question might have been answered in Rwanda, where the UN commander begged the UN for orders to intervene, orders which never came. The general, Romeo Dallaire, has spent the rest of his life curled around his failure to act despite orders.

    Meanwhile, we have the blockade of Yemen, which despite claims, continues:

    Mark Lowcock, the UN’s emergency relief coordinator, expressed his concern regarding the “recent decline of commercial food imports through the Red Sea ports” — adding that, if conditions do not improve, the number of Yemenis at the brink of starvation would rise from the current figure of 8.4 million to 18.4 million by this December. Given that there are approximately 28 million people in Yemen, a continuation of the Saudi-led blockade would mean that nearly two-thirds of the entire country’s population will soon face starvation.

    Not sure how many of those who face starvation will starve to death, rather than simply sit on the edge of death, but millions of lives are at risk, this is deliberate, it is happening in slow motion, and the rest of the world is doing nothing.

    Well, if they aren’t helping the mass murder, like America (and America was helping under Obama, so no, this isn’t a partisan issue.)

    America could stop Saudi Arabia cold if it wanted to; and it certainly could at least not participate.

    But, of course, we all know that in the run up to World War II no one cared what was happening to the Jews: we refused to let in Jewish refugee ships, after all. If all Hitler had done was the Holocaust, no one would have gone to war with him over that.

    Not that the US needs to go to war; the simple credible threat of sanctions would bring Saudi Arabia to its knees. Nor does the US, post shale oil, need Saudi Arabia’s oil, but the Saudis, in any case, are no longer in a position to not sell. Their own society would implode in months.

    Europe could do this too: SWIFT is located in Europe and subject to European law. Apparently Iran’s non-existent nuclear weapons program, which Netanyahu has stated was 5 years from a nuclear bomb since the early nineties, was worth Europeans forcing SWIFT to cut them off (SWIFT objected), but not millions of Yemeni deaths.

    Since Europe = Germany (no, don’t pretend, if Germany wants it, it happens), that means the Germans, having done the Holocaust are now sitting aside when they could stop millions of deaths, and doing nothing.

    Lovely.

    Well, I guess we’ll just watch.

    And no, Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince is not a good guy even if he has decided to let Saudi women drive.

    The only bright lining on all this is that Saudi Arabia will be in civil war itself by 2030, I suspect.

    Couldn’t happen to a nicer country.

  184. Wally says:
    @Tyrion 2

    We’ve finally found the proof of your ’6,000,000 Jews’,

    Indeed, countless times since at least 1823:

    https://imgur.com/a/0LFFF

    and:
    http://balder.org/judea/New-York-Times-Six-Million-Jews-Since-1869.php

  185. Holocaust or no Holocaust, this is still hilarious.

    Wouldn’t an easier way to kill the prisoners have been to poison the food? I would think it would be much more efficient.

    In Yemen, the Saudis with cooperation from Israel and America are going to starve the Yemenis to death over a period of several years. In otherwords, torture. No quick death by gassing. A slow motion starving to death is the gift Israel is giving to Yemen so the Yemenis can join the Holocaust Club and when the Yemenis do, they have bragging rights in my opinion.

    What, gassed to death? That’s nothing. We were starved to death for three to five years, and the total exterminated was 18 million which is 3 times what you claim your total is. Get out of my face you braggarts. You’re done. We’re the new boss in town when it comes to the Holocaust. You had your day. Now it’s our turn to get all the glory.

    • Replies: @Anon
  186. Wally says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Yeah boy, “aggravate the lion” & get millions of Muslims and watch as Britain is destroyed.
    LOL

    Come to think of it, I doubt if your are a real Brit. Shalom.

    Here’s the facts:

    Who started bombing civilians first: Germany or Great Britain? Great Britain.

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8172

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Troll: Tyrion 2
    • Replies: @Anon
  187. Anon[370] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hu Mi Yu

    Can I have a copy of your efficient pithy AI bot please? :-)

  188. annamaria says:
    @FKA Max

    “In 1993, Deborah Lipstadt… ferociously attacked him in her book as being a “Holocaust Denier…” This development eventually sparked a rancorous lawsuit in 1998, which resulted in a celebrated 2000 libel trial … with wealthy Jewish movie producers and corporate executives providing a huge war-chest of $13 million to Lipstadt’s side…”
    – The ongoing renaissance of banderism (neo-Nazism) in Ukraine has been accomplished through a well-documented collaboration between the prominent US zionists and Ukranian banderites /neo-Nazis. (https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/09/stepan-bandera-nationalist-euromaidan-right-sector/)
    Considering the dead silence of Deborah Lipstadt and her retinue of “wealthy Jewish movie producers and corporate executives providing a huge war-chest of $13 million to Lipstadt’s side” with regard to the neo-Nazi revival in Ukraine, Lipstadt and the retinue appear as veritable Holocaust deniers.
    Actually, in the context of her cruel, undignified, and tribal behavior towards David Irving, Deborah Lipstadt should be designated as a prominent Holocaust Denier.
    Mrs. Lipstadt has not produced a peep about the rise of neo-nazism in Ukraine and she has never denounced the principal American promoters of banderites, such as Mrs. Nuland-Kagan, Mr. Pyatt, and the whole State Department, whose actions in Ukraine constitute a grave insult towards the victims of the WWII.

    https://www.fort-russ.com/2016/08/surprise-judeo-banderism-is-out-of/

    https://consortiumnews.com/2015/07/13/the-mess-that-nuland-made/

    • Replies: @anon111
  189. @jilles dykstra

    D day was in general well planned, it was not too difficult to execute, against an already weak enemy, practically without an air force.

    Practically without an air force. LOL. Who suppressed that air force while Russia was still supplying Germany with strategic resources?

  190. Wally says:
    @Crimson2

    It’s claimed that Germans ‘exterminated’ Jews by dumping granules of the pesticide Zyklon-B through four openings / holes or little chimney-like structures that were secured upon the roofs of two gas chambers built alongside crematoriums II & III at Auschwitz/Birkenau.
    photo 1: top of roof of crematorium no. 2Taken January/February 1943 where there are no such ‘little chimneys’ or ‘holes’. Note that the little chimneys are claimed to have been ca. 2 feet high. The snow is ca. 2-3 inches high.
    According to Auschwitz “expert” Robert Jan Van Pelt (who appeared at the Irving/Lipstadt trial), the insertion columns, which were said to protrude out from the roof, were added as an adaptation in August, 1942.
    photo 2: underside of crematorium II, post war

    http://forum.codoh.com/download/file.php?id=1334

    Notice no such openings / holes exist in the underside of the roof in crematorium no. II (alleged ‘gas chamber’, there is no indication that these opening / holes were filled in.
    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Crimson2
  191. Anon[370] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    It is pathetic wriggling to blame attacks on civilians by bombing on the British when the Germans had killed about 350 people in Scarboroough in December 1914 by shelling from the sea then bombed London from Zeppelins. After taking a look at the ruins of Guernica, bombing of Polish cities and invasions of Holland and Belgium why shouldn’t the Brits be expected to retaliate after a heavy bombing of east London, albeit that it may not have been the original intended target if only Goering had advised them in advance?

  192. anon111 says:
    @Tyrion 2

    However, Dresden is what you get when you bomb our cities and send entirely unguided rockets at them.

    what do they get when they rape your daughters?

  193. Anon[370] • Disclaimer says:
    @Old Palo Altan

    Sounds like a rather fractured “ruling class” if that’s a genuine quote from the Duke of Wellington. But then fascination with British Royals and the appearances of class manifests itself in lots of different ways amongst outsiders – mostly, but not exclusively, foreigners though plenty of Brits manage to harbour funny ideas about Brits they don’t know.

  194. anon111 says:
    @annamaria

    Mrs. Lipstadt has not produced a peep about the rise of neo-nazism in Ukraine and she has never denounced the principal American promoters of banderites, such as Mrs. Nuland-Kagan, Mr. Pyatt, and the whole State Department, whose actions in Ukraine constitute a grave insult towards the victims of the WWII.

    i dont understand why (((Nuland))) etc are not being charged with crimes. Bragging of spending $5 billion to overthrow the legitimate Ukrainian govt on whose authority? By what right?

  195. Anon[370] • Disclaimer says:
    @Cold N. Holefield

    Feel free to spill your bright ideas liberally in UR threads so we can all get to feel smarter than someone, unless we can’t come up with – e.g. “yeah, but how do you make sure all the prisoners will start and finish eating enough poisoned food?”

  196. Anon[370] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tyrion 2

    “Reliably”? By whom – with what evidence? In fact I suspect that you have been confused by the fairly commonplace rule, derived perhaps from the early experience of modern warfare with barbed wire, trenches and machine guns, that the attackers need to build up a large preponderance of force (not so evident in the Asia-Pacific until the US had to take Okinawa etc.).

    You remind me of a couple of ex IDF kids I met trekking who sneered about the British in the Falklands based on war gaming they had done. (A Brit, former Colonel, on another trek told mw joke about the Ghurkas being enough to frighten the Argies into submission but being held back so the Marines could win some medals.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    , @notanon
  197. Ragno says:

    You’re owed a debt of gratitude by free men everywhere for this, Ron.

    I was appalled watching John Podhoretz – one of life’s central-casting minor villains – publicly threatened and cajoled St Martin’s into violating their signed contract with Irving (and in the bargain, flushing whatever integrity they thought they had down the drainpipe) 20+ years ago; and frankly, though we all understand who’s in charge when the words “Publisher’s Row” are uttered, I perhaps naively have been waiting 20+ years for some enterprising scribe to exhume those events and reframe them as the scandal they truly were, though it’s understood that there are some outrages and ethical violations that are not even alluded to; not if one doesn’t want the sort of “career trouble” that condemns you to niche imprints and self-publishing limbo.

    If posterity has more backbone than our chattering classes do, Irving will be remembered – and celebrated – as a great military historian, and his martyrdom (for surely his career was throttled in its prime quite publicly to act as a leering warning to the rest of us) recognized at long last. As for his tormentor, Podhoretz (Lipstadt was the out of town muscle brought in to deliver the killing blow, but Poddy the Lesser was the fulcrum that set the injustice into motion) I’m quite sure that he too will be recognized by his peers and colleagues as the thuggish swine that he is, the very moment it is considered safe to do so.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  198. @utu

    Yes a credible source is worth asking for. But is there not enough evidence of Hitler’s loathing of the Jews from Vienna on to make it hard to believe that Jews were just being treated as potential internal enemies like Japanese interned in America when they were deported from all over Europe (including women and children and the elderly!)? Sure he could see that getting them out of Germany to Palestine or elsewhere might have been the best solution he could hope for in the early 1930s….

    • Replies: @utu
  199. utu says:
    @Tyrion 2

    You are talking abut the lion of Judah and bombing of Gaza, right? I don’t think Brits need your Old Testament templates of vengeance.

  200. utu says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Probably 70% of population of Europe engaged in some loathing of the Jews in 1930s but who specifically was talking about “erect[ing] gallows and let[ting] them dangle until they stank.”

  201. @SEATAF

    ‘I’m seeing Richard Evans being denounced, but his book “Lying About Hitler” is awfully persuasive in laying out the case for Irving’s tendentiousness and carelessness with inconvenient data. Moreover, while Ron Unz and others describe the case as one of David versus Goliath, Irving was the plaintiff. There was no good reason for him to sue Team Lipstadt or to press on with the case once he saw the forces being gathered for the defense…’

    Since I’m one of those who objects to Richard Evans, I’ll lay out my complaints. First off, this is my direct familiarity: I’ve bought and read his trilogy on the Third Reich.

    The Coming of the Third Reich, as I recall, is pretty good. It lays out in a reasonably dispassionate fashion just how the Nazis came to power. About my only quibble would be that it relies very, very heavily on Allen’s The Nazi Seizure of Power without crediting it except in the footnotes. I kept thinking ‘haven’t I read this before?’ Then I realized why. I had.

    Serious problems started appearing with The Third Reich in Power. Over and over it was ‘Nazi policy in ______ was a failure. Nevertheless, the Nazis were popular with ______.’ Smell a rat? Maybe Nazi agricultural or labor policy or whatever wasn’t an abysmal failure.

    Then, talk about selective sources: Nothing wrong with Victor Klemperer; but seriously, is a Jew in a position to give us the man on the street view of Nazism? See Johnson et al: most Germans simply didn’t experience the Nazis as oppressive. Sorry, but they were pretty damned popular. That’s how it was — but you’d never guess it from Evans. Without technically lying he manages to present a comfortable but grossly distorted view of Nazi Germany. Even such hostile witnesses as George Orwell effectively trash that canard. No, everyone did not hate the Nazis. Face it.

    Finally, there’s The Third Reich at War. This is pathetic rather than dishonest. Actually, World War Two and Nazi Germany’s response to it would be a fascinating subject — but that’s not what Evans gives us. He recounts the Holocaust yet again. I feel like I’m reading about Washington crossing the Delaware. Yes, fine, needful tale. I have read it, you know. There were other aspects to World War Two. Even to Germany and World War Two.

    So there you have it. Evans is basically like a writer in Stalinist Russia. He toes the line — and the mediocrity of the product reflects that.

  202. Anonymous[145] • Disclaimer says:
    @tac

    What was the stunning admission?

    • Replies: @tac
  203. @Tyrion 2

    ‘…That lesson, along with the fact that Britain has been on the winning side of practically every major conflict for the 400 odd years since the Union was formed’

    In several senses, it’s implausible to argue Britain ‘won’ World War Two. Would you like to discuss the increase in her empire, her subsequent status as a great power, or perhaps just when food rationing ended?

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Tyrion 2
    , @Hail
  204. Anonymous[145] • Disclaimer says:
    @bj

    Was Babi Yaar exhumed? What was found there?

    • Replies: @bj
    , @Wally
  205. Anonymous[145] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    I just asked this of another commenter but, Do we know what happened at Babi Yaar? Has the site been exhumed?

    • Replies: @bj
  206. @Wally

    ‘…Irving’s been ‘writing’ that book for decades. He’s obviously having problems nailing Himmler for something that never happened…’

    I follow Irving, and I suspect the truth is at one and the same time sadder and more innocuous.

    The man is eighty. He’s running out of gas.

  207. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @DFH

    Wow, you confirmed it. Thanks.

    the definition of a Brit is that “he laughs when he hurts you, and howls when you hurt him”.

    • Replies: @DFH
  208. Mulegino1 says:
    @Anon

    Compared to what the British did (and had done throughout the years of the British imperial hegemony) the German attacks were mere pinpricks, and hardly the result of the same scale of malevolence that the Anglo-Zionist monsters were capable of.

    What about the British starvation blockade forced upon Germany? What about the Opium Wars against China- to force that is right, force
    the importation of opium upon an ancient civilization, with century long consequences? What about the Great Bengal Famine? The Irish famine? The evil the monsters at the helm of this global cancer that wrought so much death and misery upon the world dwarfs by orders of magnitude anything realistically imputed to Hitler or the Kaiser and is only comparable to the horrible crimes of the Judeo-Communists, compressed into a much more confined historical period.

    By contrast, the attacks on Guernica against what was arguably a military target are inconsequential, and notorious only because a communist artistic fraud decided to give a new title to what was originally the depiction of a bullfight. Warsaw was a classic case of siege bombing, with virtually no moral distinction between it and an artillery bombardment upon a legitimate military target besieged by infantry forces.

    We know- for a fact- by the proud admission of people like Spaight, Bomber Harris, the drunken pervert Churchill and the absolutely bloodthirsty General Le May that the Allies not only admitted beginning the deliberate area bombing of civilian targets for the sake of mass murder and demoralization, they proudly wallowed in it, like a pig wallows in the mud.

    Terror bombing was not part of the Luftwaffe’s strategy, and it had no fleet of heavy bombers to conduct it. The Luftwaffe’s mission was that of close in support of ground and naval combat operations and supply, not the mass murder of non-combatants.

  209. Anonymous[145] • Disclaimer says:
    @JackOH

    How does something “abridge or vacate” a political choice?

    • Replies: @JackOH
  210. Anon[900] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    “Collection of money for David Irving or purchasing books from him if it is possible should be considered. I am afraid he is in difficult situation.”

    BEST COMMENT HERE.

    So….Mr. Unz?

    • Replies: @Momus
  211. bj says:
    @Anonymous

    Who cares what happened at Babi Yaar?

    Tens of millions of people died in the war years.

    What makes a few million Jews so special?

    • Replies: @anon111
    , @Crimson2
  212. utu says:
    @Colin Wright

    just when food rationing ended?

    In UK food rationing lasted for longer than in Germany or Eastern Europe under the Soviet rule.

  213. bj says:
    @Anonymous

    The Dresden Holocaust burned hundred of thousands of old men, women, and children to death in a fire storm. David Irving chronicles the horror in this book, since you are interested in the minutia of Holocaust.

    https://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-1945-Destruction-David-Irving/dp/1872197183

    and here in film:

  214. utu says:
    @Old Palo Altan

    As the Duke of Wellington of the time put it on 3rd September 1939 : “This war is the fault of the anti-appeasers and the f*****g Jews”.

    I am not familiar with this quote but here is a compilation from reports of Polish Ambassador Potocki at Washington that were sent to Poland before the war in 1938/39 and were captured by Germans in Warsaw in September 1939.

    Public opinion in America nowadays expresses itself in an increasing hatred of everything . . . connected with National Socialism. Above all, propaganda here is entirely in Jewish hands . . . [W]hen bearing public ignorance in mind, their propaganda is so effective that people here have no real knowledge of the true state of affairs in Europe . . . It is interesting to observe that this carefully thought-out campaign — which is primarily conducted against National Socialism — no reference at all is made to Soviet Russia. If that country is mentioned, it is referred to in a friendly manner and people are given the impression that Soviet Russia is part of the democratic group of countries.

    President Roosevelt was first in the field to give expression to this hatred of Fascism. He had a two-fold purpose in mind: firstly, he wanted to divert American public opinion from difficult and complicated domestic problems . . .

    Secondly, by creating a war-panic . . . he wanted to induce Americans to endorse his huge program of armaments . . . Furthermore, the brutal treatment meted out to the Jews in Germany as well as the problem of the refugees are both factors which intensify the existing hatred of everything connected with German National Socialism . . .

    [I]ndividual Jewish intellectuals such as Bernard Baruch, Lehman, Governor of New York State, Felix Frankfurter, the newly appointed Supreme Court Judge, Morgenthau, the Financial Secretary, and other well-known personal friends of Roosevelt have taken a prominent part in this campaign of hatred. All of them want the President to become the protagonist of human liberty, religious freedom and the right of free speech . . .

    This particular group of people, who are all in highly placed American official positions and who are desirous of being representatives of ‘true Americanism’, and as ‘Champions of Democracy’, are, in point of fact, linked with international Jewry by ties incapable of being torn asunder.

    For international Jewry — so intimately concerned with the interests of its own race — President Roosevelt’s ‘ideal’ role as a champion of human rights was indeed a godsend. In this way Jewry was able not only to establish a dangerous centre in the New World for the dissemination of hatred and enmity, but it also succeeded in dividing the world into two warlike camps. The whole problem is being tackled in a most mysterious manner. Roosevelt has been given the power to enable him to enliven American foreign policy and at the same time to create huge reserves in armaments for a future war which the Jews are deliberately heading for.

    American and British media and historians often insinuated that Potocki’s reports in German White Book were not authentic.

    In 1963 Edward Raczynski, the Polish ambassador to London from 1935 to 1945, had his diary published under the title In Allied London. He wrote in his entry of June 20, 1940: “The Germans published in April a White Book containing documents from the archives of our Ministry of Foreign Affairs . . . I do not know where they found them, since we were told that the archives had been destroyed. The documents are certainly genuine, and the facsimiles show that for the most part the Germans got hold of originals and not merely copies.”

  215. tac says:
    @David Irving is a BIG Liar

    Part of my original response never made passed moderation so here it is again:

    Where exactly did David say 6 million? All I’ve heard in that answer is that David realized that the question was staged so it can be used by his enemies and he used terms like “Judea declared War on Germany and this is basically the German response, their getting rid of the problem once and for all”, “intercepted messages of SS leave no doubt at all that very large numbers were dealt with it is possible that certain people in the SS maybe exaggerating, but not significantly”, “probably the same amount”, “close to the figure that the Jews themselves NOW espose”

    Why exactly did you conveniently leave out the context of the whole video, and instead chose to post JUST the part of the of the planted question after the speech? Yes, so you can try to “sell” the idea of your claim. Here is the full video of that same speech given in March 2016 (Listen to the entirety to understand the context):

    25 questins David answers about WWII:

  216. @nebulafox

    It just wasn’t the sort of place where projects on the level and scale of the Holocaust would be authorized without…

    …a huge, unmissable, paper-trail, perhaps?

    Totalitarian societies tend to be big on people filling out forms, putting ticks in boxes, and all that sort of thing.

    One thing that has always made my bullshit-detector ping to the upper limit is the absence of a vast, vast, corpus of documentation: transport requisitions, passenger lists, fuel deliveries and so forth.

    There should be so much paperwork that a website should exist so that Doubting Thomases can see hundreds of thousands (or millions, even) of pages of orders, requisitions and what-not… after all, one of the primary inefficiencies in totalitarian command economies is that nobody is allowed to do anything ‘off their own bat’.

    Bear in mind that the people perpetrating all this genuinely believed that they were going to win… so they weren’t not-recording stuff in order to avoid later incrimination.

    Instead, we’re legally obliged to accept the claim that “Oh, nothing was put in writing – all the orders were transmitted verbally using super-secret pinky-swears and code words (e.g., “Reduce the death toll in your camp or we’ll execute you” actually means “Kill them all using the least efficient means possible, and we’ll give you the Iron Cross”).“.

    I personally do not give a much of a shit as to what some set of politicians did to their self-declared internal enemies in the 1940s: when it suits them, the political class kills its own with almost the same alacrity as it kills Johnny Foreigner.

    So no toll would be that much of a surprise, but it’s food for thought when subtotals (e.g., the Auschwitz numbers) get revised downward by 80%, but the overall total is set in stone (as if it’s a magical number).

    And of course I say this in the context of having been one of the HUNDRED BILLION Jews exterminated in Bethar under Hadrian (and being forced to fight a bear, every day, twice a day, ever since). Where’s my memorial?

    Anyone who points out that I am roughly two thousand years too young, not Jewish, and have never been to Bethar, is a filthy bigoted Hadrian-Holocaust denier.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Momus
  217. bj says:

    The Anglo-Zionist fiends have perpetrated a blood libel on the German People for 73 years, so they can feed on the gullible goyim for fun and profit. The Holocaust Mythology is well known entertainment in Russia and Israel. It is only in the socially engineered West that people take the Jewish Holocaust as fact. Here is a link to “Auschwitz on Ice” for your entertainment.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=274&v=F3FsrjBASNY

    and a review in Times of Israel

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/auschwitz-on-ice-is-perfectly-fine-in-russia-where-the-holocaust-is-not-about-the-jews/

  218. utu says:
    @Verymuchalive

    [...] my local public library system still has 4 of his books in circulation[...] However, the Anglo-Zionist Party [...] will no doubt try to rectify this.

    One way they do it is by having people borrowing a book and having it lost and then paying a penalty. No only Jews do that but uber-activists and operators for other causes (e.g. Mormons or Scientologists) who are on self-propelled or coordinated missions. It is pretty amazing how strongly some Jews are motivated to go around and do such (and more) things. (Book burning and stoning for heresy has a very long tradition in Judaism. Before emancipation when Jews had their own jurisdictions Jewish heretics often sough protection from Christina authorities outside Jewish Kahal’s reach. Iirc the last heretic rabbi was stoned to death in 19 century in Ukraine or Poland.) More effective is having the books retired by librarians. Some external grants may have strings attached to motivate the librarians to do the right thing.

    Should gentiles emulate Jewish tactics? No, because we are not like that. We operate under a different cultural code that draws from tradition of Athens not just Jerusalem. Besides if we were to make all Elie Wiesel books disappear from libraries , libraries using our tax moneys would buy new ones.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  219. tac says:
    @David Irving is a BIG Liar

    My reply was aimed at your @77 comment, yet part of my response never made it past the mediator (perhaps it was something I did wrong, but it was visible while awaiting moderator)…see your original comment and my response….hopefully it makes past the moderator this time…

    Also, care to refute the video that did make past the mediator in the video I posted? Of course you won’t as there is NOTHING you can refute against, except the usual ad hominem ….

    One final question: what do you suppose will be the result when enough consensus is achieved by exposing your lies and exaggerations in the aggregate? Where will you hide then? …. Isreal, Antarctica, Mars???

    Congratulations…you’ve managed to anger most of the civilized world (just not at critcal mass YET….but make no mistake that is the future indeed) against your myriad schemes, deceptions, exaggerations, psychopathy, mass-murder of civilians throughout the world–especially the counties in Israel’s region–and the time WILL come, as is repealy sown into the fabric of history, when you will reap-what-you-sow …. except this time much of the civilized world will be facing you. Irony indeed of not learning from your past behavior.

  220. utu says:
    @Kratoklastes

    There should be so much paperwork

    Germans used special Essbares Papier (edible paper) for top secret sensitive reports and orders. The consumption of Essbares Papier right after reading (Nach dem Lesen essen) was so high that food rations could be lowered for officers and clerks who dealt with sensitive reports and orders. The phrase ‘iss deine Worte’ was introduce to German language at that time. Unlike the English equivalent ‘eat your words’ it conveys the sense of duty, pride and being trustworthy.

  221. tac says:
    @Anonymous

    Assuming you know who Raul Hilberg is, did you also happen to click the link immediately following the video?…it’s right there for you in bold….

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  222. Wally says:
    @Anon

    1914? LOL
    Guernica? Yawn. Guernica was a military target, plain & simple. Read below:

    Guernica, by someone who has actually researched the event, with confirmation.
    http://www.fpp.co.uk/History/General/Gu … index.html

    ON APRIL 26, 1937 a handful of planes of the “Condor Legion” carried out sporadic air attacks on the Basque town of Guernica, to deny an important river crossing to the retreating Republican (Communist) forces of the Spanish government. Ninety-eight people died.

    The Condor Legion was a squadron of airforce “volunteers” provided by Hitler’s Luftwaffe to the insurgents fighting under General Francisco Franco.

    The air raid on Guernica became a centerpiece of communist and Left-wing propaganda against Hitler and Mussolini. True, reporters later found the town center devastated, but by whom? By the bombs, or after the raid by withdrawing Communists armed with dynamite by the regions’ miners?

    Reporting on a visit to Guernica, The Times Military Correspondent stated on May 5, 1937:

    “That Guernica after a week’s bombardment by aircraft and artillery should not have shown signs of fire supports the Nationalist contention that aircraft were not responsible for the burning of this town, which was bombed intermittently for a period of two hours. In Guernica few fragments of bombs have been recovered, the façades of buildings still standing are unmarked, and the few craters I inspected were larger than anything hitherto made by a bomb in Spain. From their position it is a fair inference that these craters were caused by exploding mines which were unscientifically laid to cut roads.”

    A further unidentified source echoed this: “What actually happened was that industrial Basques, miners from Asturias, experts in explosives, fired and dynamited the town to a prearranged plan. Two French artillery officers, veterans of World War One inspected the town when Franco’s troops entered. What they saw was, they said, largely the result of arson and incendiarism. Petrol had been largely used, plus dynamite. Each alleged ‘bomb’ crater coincided with a sewer-manhole on the street, and where there had been no sewers there had been no ‘bombs.’”
    And Sir Arnold Wilson, Conservative Member of Parliament for Hitchin, Hertfordshire, wrote to The Observer after a visit to Guernica, on October 3, 1937: There was no evidence of damage from aerial bombardment, he said, but “most if not all of the damage was caused by wilful incendiarism and such is the verdict of the inhabitants.” Sir Arnold was convinced that Guernica was a “put-up job,” a Red atrocity-story calculated to recoil on Franco and the Germans.

    Thousands were said to have been killed by the bombs.[See e.g., Storia Illustrata, Italy, Oct 1966: "1,654 died, 889 injured"]. This version of history – no surprises here – has been uncritically adopted ever since by conformist historians who carried out no original research. The Spanish artist Pablo Picasso, a Communist multi-millionaire, commemorated the raid in a famous propaganda painting titled “Guernica”. It is on display in the United Nations building, and the original and sketches are displayed in a gallery in Madrid.
    Closer examination reveals the Picasso painting to be a surrealist depiction of a bullfight; his first sketches for it are found in notebooks dating back over one year before the raid.

    THE conformists’ narrative of events is open to question, as British historian David Irving found when he visited the town thirty years after the raid, researching for his book Guernica to Vietnam; he spoke with survivors and city officials, and checked local newspaper files [April 27] [27 again] [28] [29] and cemetery records [right] [register page 1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6].

    In 1987 he wrote a letter to The Daily Telegraph briefly reporting what he had found.
    In brief, the local registry of births and deaths lists fewer than one hundred deaths from the air raid (most of them killed in one incident in a shelter in a local asylum, the Hospital-Asilo Calzada); bad enough. It will serve to put things in perspective if we show that the local Communist newspaper Euzkadi Roja, publishing a report on the raid on April 28, 1937, included a list of names of those few injured in the attack.
    We would not have expected such a list to appear in the press after the later raids on London, Tokyo, or Dresden; in the two-week Israeli offensive in Gaza in January 2008, 40,000 Palestinians were injured and 1,300 killed.

    A READER writes, Friday, January 30, 2009:
    Mr. Irving, I recall this was discussed by Luis Bolin in his memoir of the Spanish Civil War, Spain: the Vital Years. He was the pilot who flew General Franco to Spain at the start of the war. His account supports the position you are defending.
    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
  223. Wally says:
    @Anonymous

    There were attempts to find the alleged 34,000 Jews supposedly buried at Babi Yar, but predictably they were not be found …. because they were never shot and buried as alleged.

    Cheers.

    http://www.codoh.com

  224. Yevardian says:

    @Ron Unz

    I presume you decided to major in Antiquities for the same reason as myself – the distance of the material, lack of emotion involved and the emphasis on primary sources often makes it much more satisfying to study within the University System than more contemporary topics.

    I suppose this is not particularly important, but since it is somewhat on topic what is you own ethnic background? I seen you labelled as Jewish, Hispanic, but I haven’t seen any evidence one way or the other. I presume it’s an Anglicisation of ‘Unzu’ but I could be wrong.

  225. anon111 says:
    @bj

    Who cares what happened at Babi Yaar?

    Tens of millions of people died in the war years.

    What makes a few million Jews so special?

    a few years ago i asked a jew on the internet why they traded 100 arab prisoners for 1 jew prisoner and his response was “to let them know how worthless they are”

    for a few seconds i thought it was funny until i realized he probably thought the same of me

  226. tac says:

    David Irving 2017:

    Holohau$$$ industry:

    David Irving – the biggest lie (this video has been deleted and/or censored… So watch before it is censored again):

  227. Anonymous[145] • Disclaimer says:
    @tac

    What, that he was concerned the available evidence was slim connecting Hitler himself to the extermination of Jews? Wasn’t that more the opinion of the person he spoke with at the party?

  228. @Mulegino1

    Ian Hernon, ‘Britain’s Forgotten Wars, Colonial Campaigns of the 19th Century’, 2003, 2007, Chalford – Stroud
    Anyone in the mood for hating the whites should read the book.

  229. @Tyrion 2

    Britain lost WWI and lost WWII.
    Twice the USA rescued Britain.
    It was an expensive rescue, after WWII GB ceased to exist.

  230. DFH says:
    @Anon

    Presumably the noble Germans were equally bothered by the destruction of Warsaw and the bombing of Hamburg

    • Replies: @utu
  231. @Johnny Rico

    The Arnheim landings of September 1944, that turned out into a disaster, were because western generals saw the last chance of getting honour before the war was over.
    Read ‘A Bridge too Far’, too lazy to look for the exact title, and writer.

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  232. @Anon

    Had not GB and France declared war, and refused peace, Hitler thought he had to beat France in order to force GB to peace.
    From Sept 1944 until April 1945 there was the phoney war, nothing happened.
    Hitler was forced into action when British /French plans for the occupation of neutral Norway and Sweden became known.
    To secure his back he had to occupy us, the Netherlands, and Belgium.
    Thank you, mr Churchill.
    Colonel Roderick Macleod, D.S.O., M.C., and Dennis Kelly, ‘TIME UNGUARDED The Ironside Diaries 1937- 1940′, New York, 1963
    Ironside was the commander of the British army, after Dunkirk he was sacked.
    Great to read, especially about Churchill’s stupidities.
    Ironside had stipulated that his diaries should not be published, Macleod, shortly before Ironside’s death, convinced him to let parts be published ‘because of the general misrepresentations of the first months of the war’.

  233. @Verymuchalive

    Possibly Hitler died of old age in Argentina
    Simon Dunstan and Gerrard Williams, ‘Grey Wolf, The Escape of Adolf Hitler, The case presented’, New York 2011

  234. @renfro

    Maybe he did.
    I did.
    Very boring book, not a word about killing jews, though they’re called parasites.
    I corresponded with a historian who wrote to me that he stopped reading at page 200, I read the full 600 of the english translation.

  235. @Uebersetzer

    Can you specify the source of this nonsense ?

  236. I actually met David Irving in person. It happened after his stall had been removed from the International Book Fairs in Warsaw at the request of the pro-Jewish lobby in Poland. I wrote him an email in which I expressed my sympathy and anger at having him removed from the Fairs. He responded promptly and one thing led to another and I met with him in a cafe in Warsaw where we had a nice conversation and Mr. Irving even gave me a DVD with a documentary based on Hitler’s War. He told me then that he would never return to Poland again but he must have changed his mind because he organized tours around places connected with WWII later on. However those weren’t advertised and the media fortunately for David Irving didn’t get interested in them.

  237. Crimson2 says:
    @Wally

    Goebbels, Himmler and Hitler killed themselves. Follow your leaders.

  238. Crimson2 says:
    @bj

    What makes a few million Jews so special?

    Seems important to the many neo-Nazis here at Unz.

    • Replies: @anon111
    , @annamaria
  239. Anon[370] • Disclaimer says:
    @PV van der Byl

    Yup, “became a marked man” is one of those telltale clichés in an internet discussion. You point is well taken. I wonder if he ever compared notes with Salman Rushdie :-)

  240. JackOH says:
    @Anonymous

    We don’t have a politics of provocateur-ship in the style of President Trump, the late Congressman Jim Traficant, onetime Presidential contender Pat Buchanan and maybe others, because it will alienate big-ticket corporate and other constituent donors who want to maintain the political equilibrium they control, and because it opens up candidates to charges of anti-Black racism and anti-Semitism.

    As I’m seeing it, Herr Hitler, who, along with his Reich, have been dead for 70+ years, has been so successfully pushed to the foreground by Zionist Jewish activists and their allies that many folks at the level of popular American opinion, who have other things to do with their lives, just elide the difference between Hitlerite bombast and, say, Phil Giraldi’s insider criticism of AIPAC and its acolytes that appears on these pages. Ditto, the foregrounding of KKK-style racism that’s elided with measured criticism of Black culture and politics. In a nutshell, “no-go, no-fly” zones for political rhetoric.

    That’s what I had in my mind when I wrote that comment. Hope that helps.

  241. Momus says:
    @Kratoklastes

    One thing that has always made my bullshit-detector ping to the upper limit is the absence of a vast, vast, corpus of documentation: transport requisitions, passenger lists, fuel deliveries and so forth.

    The websites exist the information available detailing the Nazis depravity is almost inexhaustible. You find the paper trails if you look into the detail of the infrastructure management particularly the massive number of building projects taking places in the various prison, slave labor and concentration camps. For instance there is plenty of documentation on SS paying the railways for goods trucks used to transport the condemned, and internal directives to show tighter packing could save them money. Ditto for coke deliveries to crematoria or purchases of gas vans.

    It’s all there in original documentation, sworn testimony and physical evidence. Of course you have to have the moral balls and intellectual honesty to look for it. It helps if you have a grasp of German just as having German helps to pull the wool over the gullible and to reinforce the prejudices of deniers- like yourself.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  242. Momus says:
    @Mulegino1

    Terror bombing was not part of the Luftwaffe’s strategy, and it had no fleet of heavy bombers to conduct it.

    The Blitz on London? 9000 V1′s Come on. The Lutwaffe started practising in Spain and mastered terror bombing.

  243. Momus says:
    @Anon

    He would be in a very pleasant situation if he had left Lipstadt alone and shut his mouth and confined himself to history not hate mongering.
    .
    Anyway how much are you going to donate?

  244. Tyrion 2 says: • Website
    @Anon

    No, that commonplace rule is that you should have a 3:1 force ratio for an attack.

    Also, I wasn’t doing us down but was complimenting the Germans.

    • Replies: @Anon
  245. Tyrion 2 says: • Website
    @Colin Wright

    Yes, it was something of a pyrrhic victory. Although I’d argue that WWI was the real catastrophe.

    • Replies: @Anon
  246. Anon[411] • Disclaimer says:
    @Peakhunter

    punishable by death by the Polish Underground State.

    Consider the negligible size of ‘Underground State’ (mere thousands) with the scale of Polish population (20-30 mln). There is no statistics how they ‘undermined’ the Germans (even spitting to the coffee cups would do). Just to compare, the rail war in Belorussia destroyed 215 thousand rails and many bridges. Poles preferred to serve Germans and not a single deathcamp was liberated by ‘Underground’, no ‘underground road’ to escape even existed.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Peakhunter
  247. Anon[370] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tyrion 2

    If 3:1 is the standard figure how is your 1.5:1 a compliment to the Germans? (Obviously it was easier to defend Caen or a river crossing than open fields against superior tank numbers….)

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    , @anon111
  248. utu says:
    @DFH

    Bombings of Warsaw 1939 and Rotterdam 1940 were not war crimes by all conventions at that time because the cities were used as defense fortresses against moving ground forces assault. The damage done to the two cities at that time was not very extensive and not that many civilians died.

    Hamburg is completely different on many levels. It was a war crime. Everybody who was involved knew they were committing a war crime. During bombing campaign against Japanese cities general Le May told McNamara “If we’d lost the war, we’d all have been prosecuted as war criminals.” Your Bomber Harris knew it as well. Whether the story of him being stopped by a young policeman and saying “Young man, I kill thousands of people every night” is authentic does not really matter. He knew what he was doing and what actions were permitted under conventions at that time.

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @Anon
  249. Unzerker says:
    @Mulegino1

    What about the Opium Wars against China- to force that is right, force the importation of opium upon an ancient civilization, with century long consequences?

    This has to be the silliest thing ever.

    Before the Brits an looong before the opium wars it was the Dutch who traded opium with the Chinese. This was because the Chinese weren’t interested in anything else the Europeans had to offer. You either paid the Chinese silver for their goods or you traded opium.

    The main reason why the Chinese started to oppose the opium trade in the 19th century was because of the increasing trade deficit, which meant large volumes of silver were now leaving the country to pay the British.

    How on earth is this considered some kind of war crime?

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  250. utu says:
    @Anon

    Just to compare, the rail war in Belorussia destroyed 215 thousand rails and many bridges.

    Nonsense. All made up figures. The glorified Soviet partisans were created to terrorize local population from collaborating with Nazis. The modus operandi was to provoke German retaliations and reprisals which lead to many unnecessary deaths. Basically in the early stage of war Soviets lost heart and minds of local populations that preferred German occupiers to Soviet commissars who they knew too well. Some villages formed self-defense groups against the partisans and often were equipped by Germans. W/o Soviet partisans civil losses would be much lower. The anti-German actions did not amount to much and they did not shorten the war by one day.

    • Replies: @Anon
  251. Anon[370] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mulegino1

    Interesting to note your thrashing around wildly as you do on other issues and to observe your standpoints.

    Here the issue was whether the Brits could be blamed for the involvement of civilians in war in a way that would not otherwise have happened. That seems to involve a childish suspension of the critical faculties (was your beloved grandpa in the Hitler Youth?). Hitler – as a dictator who had destroyed civil rights and murdered a colleague be it noted – was rearming for offensive action while the Brits were typified by the famous pacifist resolution at the Oxford Union.

    As to your anachronisms, my Irish ancestry entitles me to point out that the 1840s Irish Famine isn’t even in the same class of event as terrorising civilians. Long before the welfare state and while the Industrial Revolution still hadn’t led to the end of Malthusian overbreeding and huge infant mortality, the relief efforts, some governmental but mostly charities, were inadequate to prevent disaster. Curiously, this was treated as a matter of shame rather than a reason for throwing off British rule (itself a misnomer when Irishmen could be elected to parliament on the same pre manhood suffrage basis as Englishmen).

    If you want to blame Britain for the world’s ills and follies you really have to make a case that the relatively benign sea based empire should have made itself far more powerful rather than just tried to bluff its way through with a balance of power when the multiplying barbarians of the Continental land mass threatened what actually came about. The same could have been said of the 5th century Romans and the Byzantines who succumbed to Mohammed’s tribal aggressors. Demographics was fatal. If the French had gone on reproducing Frenchmen as fast as Germans were breeding in the 19th century the Franco-Prussian war would most likely have not occurred, und so weiter.

    • Agree: Momus
    • Replies: @anon111
    , @Mulegino1
  252. DFH says:
    @utu

    I was talking about the mass executions of civilians in the Warsaw Uprising.

    The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everybody else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw, and half a hundred other places, they put that rather naïve theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now, they are going to reap the whirlwind.

  253. Anon[370] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Tyrion 2

    Yes. I came to know well a distinguished Anglophone man born in the 1880s (not in an Austrian provincial town) who, on one 4th August said gloomily as he looked at the calendar “the X th anniversary of the end of civilisation”. Unfortunately I didn’t explore the full implications of what he meant or might have meant. But if Queen Victoria’s most disastrous grandson (whose father may have been OK) hadn’t been belligerent, weak and feckless that faction of the army staff that wanted to take any half opportunity offering to knock off potential enemies might have been restrained and the Austrians told to accept that Serbia had cringed enough.

    Bismarck – I seem to remember A.J.P. Taylor opining – might have prevented Wilhelmine excesses if he had still been alive and in power but that takes speculation too far.

    We can speculate that Russia and Germany, increasingly even in industrial power (though for a long time it would only be Russia’s greater population that would create a balance of power) would have had relatively pacific social democrat or socialist governments. Jews would have flourished and not been seriously threatened in the absence of war and general impoverishment. I leave out, however, the fact that there were 5 million Russians and 2 million Germans born in 1913….. extrapolate not just to them replacing WW1 losses for the second round but to the continuation after 1913 of that birthrate. And I leave out the possibility that America/Wall Street could have precipitated a great depression beyond America. (Probably not given the relative lack of flow on of previous American down turns).

  254. Tyrion 2 says: • Website
    @Anon

    That standard figure relates to any particular offensive engagement. Not an offensive campaign.

    Naturally, a campaign contains both offensive and defensive engagements. If you take ground, you will likely need to defend it from counter-attack and while you resupply. Or, if the enemy take your ground, sitting there in a static defence on what you still hold will likely mean you lose; so better to get them while they are resupplying. Obviously, this is a simplification.

    The overall point, as the German applied so wonderfully with their Ardennes offensive, is to manoeuvre your strategic force so that, even if you have less overall, you concentrate it and achieve at least a favourable ratio of 3:1 in any given offensive tactical engagement. You strike as strongly as you can at their weakest point and then do it again and again and again until they are so discombobulated that they give up. It is why having workhorse-type players who run everywhere in football can be so useful, it makes it seem like you are playing with 12 men.

    The calculated value of German soldiers post-Normandy is unrelated. I assume it is an academic calculation based on their actual performance. Its use, theoretically, would be to help the commander calculate the force ratios for a particular engagement and then ensure that they would have at least 3:1 for that particular offensive action. So rather than needing a company to take a position held by a platoon, you’d have a company with an platoon attached as well. Or air superiority, or more automatic weapons etc. You always want more defenders than attackers in football but if the attackers are Suarez, Neymar and Messi, then you probably want your whole team back.

    I’m ambivalent on this approach to warfare but it makes an interesting aside. The source of that particular calculation will remain anonymous, but I hope that the explanation above will give me the credibility to allow you to trust me when I say the source was credible himself. I apologise that I cannot be more open. It isn’t a hugely important point and more of particular historical interest. I thought that it might tickle some of the resident Nazi-types but, it seems, that unless you write, in every post, that all Germans were supermen; that Hitler was the kindliest and most righteous man to have ever lived and that everyone who opposed him was not only the worst but also failed miserably then you are still propagating the greatest lie ever told. Oh, well…at least I find crazy interesting.

    • Replies: @Anon
  255. @Anon

    Consider the negligible size of ‘Underground State’ (mere thousands) with the scale of Polish population (20-30 mln). There is no statistics how they ‘undermined’ the Germans (even spitting to the coffee cups would do). Just to compare, the rail war in Belorussia destroyed 215 thousand rails and many bridges. Poles preferred to serve Germans and not a single deathcamp was liberated by ‘Underground’, no ‘underground road’ to escape even existed.

    Look, I don’t want to be rude, but do you have the slightest idea what you are talking about? You can check out something as mundane as Wikipedia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_resistance_movement_in_World_War_II

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Underground_State

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Armed_Forces_in_the_West

    650,000 and “the largest underground resistance in WWII” is not exactly “a few thousand”.

    Poles had to fight the genocidal Nazis, genocidal Soviets, genocidal UPA at home, forceful conscription to both armies, while still being able to field 250 000 soldiers to fight all over the theatre of war, from mainland Europe, Britain, Italy, Holland, Norway to North Africa.

    Belarussia was contested Soviet-Nazi territory, where the “resistance” was indistinguishable from the regular Soviet war effort, they bombed the tracks to help the advancing Soviet army.

    Meanwhile, Polish commanders had to plan their steps carefully, because any direct action was met with massacres of Polish civilians and there was no support. The culmination of those plans was the Warsaw Uprising, where the Nazis destroyed Warsaw completely in response while the Soviets just watched on the other side of the Vistula river as the Poles bled to death.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Wally
  256. @Crimson2

    I don’t think he is dishonest*, but he does come across like one of those autodidact cranks who believes the last book he read is the key to all truth – and the less mainstream, the better. If Unz had read a different book recently, this website might instead be full of posts about lost prehistoric civilizations or pre-Columbian voyages to America or Shakespeare authorship theories. The funny thing is that he is not actually an autodidact, but a graduate of Harvard! I don’t know what that says about a Harvard education.

    * Generally – the obscuring of who sued whom is dishonest.

  257. Momus says:
    @tac

    Does anyone believe that? Mighty hubris and self agrandisement

    If the Mossad wanted Irving he’d be dead.

    He does not register in their pantheon.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  258. Mulegino1 says:
    @Momus

    Nonsense. The London “Blitz” was a response to the deliberate terror bombing of Germany which the RAF had been carrying out since Churchill assumed the post of Prime Minister. The British had been bombing German cities for three months before the Germans responded in kind, and this only after repeated warnings from Hitler that the Germans would respond in kind should they continue.

    We know for a fact that neither Hitler nor the Luftwaffe command approved of the deliberate bombing of civilian targets, or terror bombing. There is a big difference between bombing a fortified military target under siege- siege bombing- and the indiscriminate bombing of civilian targets in order to terrorize and demoralize a civilian population or to kill as many civilians as possible, as was clearly proposed in the Lindemann plan.

    To compare the bombing of Guernica- a Republican regimental headquarters- to what the British did to the German cities is a classic example of straining the gnat and swallowing the camel. You can barrage these topics all you like with Talmudist duplicity, but in the end it will only backfire. The world is waking up to the fact that the big losers of the Second World War were the Christian peoples of Europe.

    • Replies: @jack daniels
  259. anon[255] • Disclaimer says:

    At the risk of sounding like an ingrate, but is it possible to get these books in Kindle or other ereader format? If it’s a copyright thing I’d understand, but if it’s technical I’d be happy to contribute some programming help…

    • Replies: @jack daniels
  260. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    DFH has become a caricature of Germans of 1914.

    http://www.gkc.org.uk/gkc/books/alliterativism.html

  261. anon111 says:
    @Anon

    i think 3:1 is preferred ratio for attack while 1.5:1 is the relative quality of the soldiers German vs British. Prob takes into account many things like available weapons, mobility thru motorized vehicles, etc – who knows what else.

  262. anon111 says:
    @Crimson2

    Seems important to the many neo-Nazis here at Unz.

    yes, if you don’t buy the holohoax narrative and you observe what some jews are up to YOU’RE A NAHTZEE!! just like those smeared by the msm at Charlottesville

    • Replies: @Crimson2
  263. Irving’s current view seems to be that the Nazis did kill the number of Jews claimed by the Jewish organizations, only the killings occurred at eastern camps that are totally destroyed (presumably one could still excavate?) and via mass shootings in the forest as the German army advanced eastward. I don’t know if he sets this out in detail in any of his books, and some think it’s not his real opinion and he is bowing to pressure. If it is his real opinion then he would no longer be a Holocaust denier but perhaps a Holocaust agnostic on the point of gas chambers.

  264. anon111 says:
    @Anon

    If you want to blame Britain for the world’s ills and follies you really have to make a case that the relatively benign sea based empire….

    lol, you’re kidding, right?

    • Replies: @Anon
  265. Crimson2 says:
    @anon111

    The fact that you Nazis get so offended by being called Nazis is not a good sign for your movement.

    Irving and Charlottesville should remind you that bullshit is rarely effective in court. You will continue to lose, so be ready.

    • Replies: @Wally
  266. @Mulegino1

    The world takes too long to wake up to things. Christianity seems to be just about done for with its collapse in Ireland. Russia is for the moment the world’s only Christian power. The right, or what passes for a right, has done a terrible job of publicizing the crimes of Communism, with the result that the left gets a pass on just about everything. The left’s crimes are attributed to misguided idealism and failure to have read Hayek whereas the right’s are attributed to bestial cruelty. The red diaper neocons who lead mainstream conservatism find it too difficult to condemn the ethics of their parents. There is a good piece on this in Dissent some years back by Marxist Eugene Genovese. He is baffled by the good manners and friendliness of conservative audiences, who would never hold it against him that he had supported Josef Stalin. He wonders why they never point an accusing finger, never ask him “What did you know and when did you know it?” about Soviet crimes.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  267. @Momus

    Göring in 1938 or 1939 scrapped the prototype of a German four engined bomber.

  268. @Anon

    ” Bismarck – I seem to remember A.J.P. Taylor opining – might have prevented Wilhelmine excesses ”
    Can you specify these excesses ?
    In my opinion they just existed in British propaganda.
    Such as is admitted in
    Sir Campbell Stuart K.B.E., ‘Secrets of Crewe House, The Story of a Famous Campaign’, 1920, London

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    , @Anon
  269. Wally says:
    @Crimson2

    Still waiting for you to show us the remains of millions of Jews that Jews like you claim to know the locations of.

    You’re projecting again.

    The fact that you Jews get so offended by being called Jews is not a good sign for your movement.

    There were the ‘Nazis’ with the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ and there were the ‘Nazis’ without the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    You will never be the same again.

  270. anonymous[739] • Disclaimer says:
    @Crimson2

    I disagree.

    Anti Holocaust denial laws indicate something else, something very different and something extremely negative in my mind.

    the 6 Million gassed Jews Holocaust has become a fundamentalist state religion in Europe, Canada and the move to make it so here in the USA where the 1st Amendment doesn’t apply.

    It’s similar to Islam in say Saudi Arabia – blasphemy against Islam against the prophet Muhammed and his children is not protected speech at all – the blasphemer is persecuted as a religious heretic an “unbeliever” and just look what the Koran says should be done to unbelievers.

    Same with the 6 Million Gassed Jews Holocaust myth. Those who question any small part of this religious myth are persecuted as religious heretics

    “Holocaust denial”

    “Unbelievers”

    what other forms of just holding an opinion results in the person losing his job or being put in jail for “denial”.

  271. @anon

    They are available as free downloads on Irving’s FP Press website. The hard copies have a lot of rare photographs, which I don’t believe are in the downloads.

  272. Tyrion 2 says: • Website
    @Anon

    As a rule of thumb 20 per cent of public school boys who fought in the war died (which means private elite schools), against 13 per cent of those overall who served.

    • Replies: @Anon
  273. Tyrion 2 says: • Website
    @jilles dykstra

    Do you ever post anything that isn’t mere whining ahout somehow Germans are the most gentle and innocents victims?

    • Replies: @Wally
  274. But did his daughter marry an ape or Rastafarian in the end?

  275. Wally says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Yep, the Germans are just that.
    But he does post information which shatters the lies of violent Zionist filth.
    But he does post information which expose Jew Privilege.

    Speaking of debunking lies:

    We’re talking about an alleged ’6M Jews & 5M others’ … 11,000,000.
    There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, 34,000 at Babi Yar) even though Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.

    See the ‘holocaust’ scam easily & thoroughly debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here:http://forum.codoh.com
    Healthy Jews at Auschwitz ‘liberation’:http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/PICS31/66935a.jpg

  276. joe webb says:
    @Need More Dragons

    thanks. not many seem to care. Having met Irving, and then my story and others…about his sexual macro aggressions…don’t seem to mean much to folks here.

    My general sense is that he was capable of mass killing. Arrogant and obsessed.

    Joe Webb

  277. anon111 says:

    ….and Charlottesville should remind you that bullshit is rarely effective in court.

    the fact that the right went to jail and remains in jail for lesser crimes than the left committed on video while the left remains free shows that bullshit is indeed very effective in (((court))) as is (((leftist lawfare)))

    You will continue to lose, so be ready.

    some kind of retarded Nostradamus are we?

    • Replies: @Crimson2
  278. annamaria says:
    @International Jew

    Is this you, Mrs. Nuland-Kagan?

  279. annamaria says:
    @Crimson2

    Guess, you also firmly believe that Arendt was a wicked woman.
    You should have already taken a peek at Solzhenitsyn’s documentary “Two Hundred Years Together” to educate yourself about human nature.

  280. annamaria says:
    @Crimson2

    “But anti-Holocaust denial laws are not evidence against the Holocaust itself. They are in fact protections against Nazism.”
    – Then what is the point of the US ziocons’ principal role in the revival of neo-Nazism in Ukraine? (see Maidan revolution of 2014: https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Document:The_Maidan_Revolution_Neo-Fascist_Problem)
    None of the 52 American Jewish organizations have voiced a protest against the revival of neo-Nazism in Ukraine. Should not all these organizations be subjected to anti-Holocaust denial laws? — According to your logic, yes, they should.

  281. Harbinger says:
    @Verymuchalive

    It was his book: The Bombing of Dresden which also gained him incredible respect with Germans, who opened up even more to telling the truth, something that other historians were incapable of doing.
    You are of course right, that is was a lesson in futility that Irving attempted to sue Lipstadt, because it was a Kangaroo court. Had Lipstadt, however, been cross examined by Irving, he would have destroyed her. However, the problem was, Irving still believed that the UK still maintained the rule of law. He was unaware that by that time, an anarcho-tyranny was in control and the only peoples who faced the rule of law were the goyim. Jews, were and are exempt.
    And as for him leaving, he couldn’t. This is his home. Irving truly epitomizes the Englishman and he wouldn’t run from anyone. “It simply wouldn’t be cricket”.

    • Replies: @utu
  282. Harbinger says:
    @Shoanuff

    I remember watching this a while back. What made me cringe was when they wheeled out the Jewelery clad Jewesses who began the usual whining about ‘lampshades made out of human skin’ and ‘how they could smell the burning bodies smelling of chicken’ rubbish, all completely disproven.
    And yet, people still truly believe in this propaganda. This is what I find disturbing.

  283. annamaria says:
    @Crimson2

    Are you aware that Babi Yar is in Ukraine? But this did not stop the Kagans’ clan from collaborating with Ukrainian neo-Nazis to ensure the revival of neo-Nazism in Ukraine. https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Document:The_Maidan_Revolution_Neo-Fascist_Problem
    Where are Deborah Lipstadt and the hounds from ADL to hunt Nuland-Kagan and Pyatt, these documented neo-Nazi collaborators? http://www.softpanorama.org/Skeptics/Political_skeptic/Neocons/nulandgate.shtml

    http://www.cufi.org.uk/news/ukraine-new-report-shows-rise-in-antisemitism/

  284. annamaria says:
    @Crimson2

    If you are trying to convince the leaders that zionists are in possession of very special “moral bestness” and “greatest victimhood,” than your trying is futile in lieu of the facts: http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2018/06/razan-al-najjar-f-b-ali.html

  285. utu says:
    @Harbinger

    The Bombing of Dresden which also gained him incredible respect

    He soon was target for it. 1963 burglary of David Irving’s flat by ‘anti-fascist’ activists.

    The son of a Jewish woman and a nominally Anglican father, Gable grew up in post-war east London considering himself Jewish.

    • Replies: @Harbinger
  286. Anon[411] • Disclaimer says:
    @Peakhunter

    650,000 and “the largest underground resistance in WWII” is not exactly “a few thousand”.

    Don’t be embarrassed by the numbers in Polish-edited Wikipedia, it is the evidence of the occupied nation where everyone after the war claimed to be a ‘resistance hero’ just not to be counted as a Nazi collaborator. These ‘Underground heroes’ were so deep below, that did nothing. If two of them could kill one German soldier, there would be something significant. So they sat from 1939 to 1943 and did exactly what? But who reported Jews to hestapo? And where is collaboration statistics? Wikipedia provides ridiculously low numbers, about 3000-5000 court cases. Yet 30-million nation was runned by local officials in much larger quantities, and all of them were content with Nazi yoke. They HAD to know what is happening in death camps, and where all Jews and Gypsies disappear. With such ‘resistance’ Poland effectively helped Germany to wage war on either front.

    while still being able to field 250 000 soldiers

    If we collect all Polish plumbers and taxi drivers in EU today, we may have a 1-mln strong army. But being a soldier of Polish origin and whatever citizenship doesn’t make you a Polish resistance fighter for liberation of your homeland.

    • Replies: @Peakhunter
  287. annamaria says:
    @Ragno

    “Podhoretz … will be recognized by his peers and colleagues as the thuggish swine that he is, the very moment it is considered safe to do so.”
    – True.

  288. Anon[411] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    This is so typical anti-Russian escapade. If we place you in WW2 occupation zone and give you a choice – either run to the forest and fight Nazis, or serve them coffee every day, what do you choose? Don’t be shy, in the West most of grandpas served coffee.

    • Replies: @utu
  289. annamaria says:
    @Crimson2

    “…many neo-Nazis here at Unz.”
    — Crimson2, could you identify any members of the Kagans clan on this forum? No? What about Pyatt and Ledeen? — It is doubtful that the ziocons frequent the Unz site.
    Here is a repost of a link to a paper that you should read carefully so that the facts of the ziocons’ collaboration with neo-Nazis would finally become internalized by your mind. https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Document:The_Maidan_Revolution_Neo-Fascist_Problem
    Whether the decisive collaboration of ziocons with Ukrainian neo-Nazis or Israeli support for ISIS, the facts have an obvious anti-Crimson2 bias. http://www.softpanorama.org/Skeptics/Political_skeptic/Neocons/nulandgate.shtml

  290. Harbinger says:
    @utu

    Yes, it did, but Irving, as stated, epitomized the English gentleman and the “truth will be out” as far as he was concerned. He is a bastion of integrity and the attacks upon him, by the establishment, show how badly society has fallen. The minute you allow Jews into positions of power is the day you effectively bring about tyranny.

  291. @Anon

    There was no collaboration with the Nazis, Hitler himself didn’t trust the Poles and predicted they’re going to stubbornly resist, rendering them completely untrustworthy. Poland was directly governed and ruled with an iron fist, most of whatever resources Poles had left while being completely on their own was dedicated to survival and preservation of the civilian population affected by the FUCKING HOLOCAUST, Soviet mass executions and gulags (Katyn) and the creeping genocide by the UPA in the first years of war.

    I gave you THREE links filled with sources, and you dismissed them immediately while providing exactly zero counter evidence. Here’s another one, detailed:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_contribution_to_World_War_II

    (includes resistance activities and Allied war effort)

    Rescue and collaboration:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_Jews_by_Poles_during_the_Holocaust

  292. utu says:
    @Anon

    For you it seems to be an easy choice but until the Soviet partisans showed up and destabilized the place most people preferred ‘serving coffee.’

  293. Incitatus says:
    @Sam Shama

    Irving is well worth reading, and the concerted effort against him shameful for any who honor free speech. Caring what Lipstadt wrote was his first mistake, suing her the second. He also seems to welcome a running battle with academia (some may deserve it, some not – don’t have a dog in that fight).

    ‘Göring’, ‘Trail of the Fox’ (Rommel), and ‘Hitler’s War’ – read years ago – are excellent. The latter was remarkable as a believable account of official German thinking and action. As one would expect, nasty war year bits weren’t on display, just as every government subjectively sanitizes its record. It wasn’t less valuable for that. The dark side is well covered by others.

    If you want the German view of the war years, Irving’s your thing.

    Hitler’s rise to power (1914-33) and ruthlessness (against all who stood in his way) is worth worrying about. At its height, membership in the NSDAP was 12% of German population. About a third of German voters favored Nazis at their peak. Germans were/are a smart people. Violence, incendiary rhetoric, scapegoating, and a nitwit president that yearned for authoritarian monarchy and thus empowered a commoner he thought he could control proved an absolute lever to power. Hitler, a brilliant man, made the most of it.

    Volker Ullrich’s ‘Hitler: The Ascent 1889-1939’ is extraordinary in tracing the rise. Also well worth the trip: Thomas Weber’s ‘Hitler’s First War’ (AH’s WW1 record) and ‘Becoming Hitler: The Making of a Nazi’ (AH’s mustering out and post war record). Brownell’s ‘The First Nazi: Erich Ludendorff’.

    Into Childer’s ‘The Third Reich’ at the moment. So far very good.

    Best

    • Replies: @iffen
  294. Wally says:
    @Peakhunter

    A whole lot made up nonsense in that post. See photos below.
    Wikipedia? Seriously. LOL, see:
    Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189

    How Israel and Its Partisans Work to Censor the Internet

    http://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/?highlight=wikipedia

    Warsaw was not ‘completely destroyed’, here’s proof. Warsaw suffered much damage since the Polish Home Army had deployed itself into buildings, but here are just a few photos of Warsaw, not ‘completely destroyed’ at time of Polish Home Army surrender / entry of Red Army:https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/Wyzwolenie_Pragi_wrzesie%C5%84_1944.jpg/800px-Wyzwolenie_Pragi_wrzesie%C5%84_1944.jpgPolish Home Army surrenders in Warsaw

    • Replies: @utu
  295. Unzerker says:

    In my country the adult male population of the village where I grew up in,Putten ,was send to concentration camps as a reprisal for a botched resistance attack. These were all Germanic Christian males. This happened in October 1944. Of the 589 who arrived at the camps, only 48 survived the remaining 6 months of WW2. Of those 48, 5 died shortly after the war of complications.

    Yes, they weren’t gassed, but if 92% of all healthy adult males die in a 6 month period, that is a feature, not a bug. Don’t go claiming that, because there weren’t gas-chambers, these camps weren’t designed to kill off its occupants. Those 541 innocent Germanic Christian men were murdered in these camps by the Nazis.

    I think it’s healthy to be skeptical of all the claims about the holocaust, but some of you go to the other extreme.

  296. Wally says:
    @Momus

    Leave it to a redneck Zionist to repeat what has been debunked over & over.

    Who started bombing civilians first: Germany or Great Britain, Britain

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8172

    and:

    http://www.unz.com/article/memory-loss-in-the-garden-of-violence/?highlight=guernica#comment-1865090

    http://www.codoh.com

  297. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    There were British military spies in the town of Guernica. They reported that it was communists on the ground who set off the destructive bombs, not the planes over head.

    It was done as propaganda and as usual the useful idiot intellectuals fell for it.

  298. utu says:
    @Wally

    Wally, we have been through that already. The Red Army entered Warsaw in January 1945. It was cold and and snowy winter and there was no civilian population. Your pict is from another city. Women are in summer dresses. You have been told not to use this pict in this argument. Why are you dishonest?

    • Replies: @Wally
  299. Mulegino1 says:
    @Unzerker

    Selling opium is a crime for recreational consumption is usually a common crime. But starting two wars against a sovereign country to force it to import opium is an enormous war crime.

    • Replies: @Unzerker
  300. Mulegino1 says:
    @Anon

    You have got to be joking.

    The British invented concentration camps specifically for the purpose of interning women and children and thus pressure the Boers to surrender.

    The British initiated the criminal blockade of Germany during the First World War, which was responsible for many hundreds of thousands of Germans dying of malnutrition and continued the blockade even after the war. The unrestricted German U-Boat warfare was a response to this blockade, just as the so called “Blitz” on London was a response to three months of unanswered deliberate terror bombing of German cities.

    So Hitler rearmed? So what? What was he supposed to do? Keep the tiny 100,000 man army allowed, with no tanks, no heavy artillery and no air force and only a small coastal fleet as under the terms of the Treaty of Versailles, while in the meantime France fielded the largest Army in the world, Britain the largest Navy, with a potential invasion by the USSR? Even Czechoslovakia had much larger and better equipped armed forces than Weimar Germany. Hitler’s so called “rearmament” was a great power seeking parity with its potential adversaries, not worldwide domination.

    A Europe which jails nonagenarian men and women for thought crime is in no wise preferable to Hitler’s New Order.

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  301. Mulegino1 says:
    @jack daniels

    The right, or what passes for a right, has done a terrible job of publicizing the crimes of Communism, with the result that the left gets a pass on just about everything. The left’s crimes are attributed to misguided idealism and failure to have read Hayek whereas the right’s are attributed to bestial cruelty.

    I agree. The kosher cuckservatives- again and again- are exemplified by bow tie wearing geeks like George Will who allow the leftists to roll over them and move the goal posts of the debate further and further to the left.

    • Replies: @Dave Patterson
  302. Mulegino1 says:
    @Anon

    You’re repeating 100 plus year old British propaganda, designed to demonize the “evil Hun.” Next you will be claiming that the Germans used Belgian babies for bayonet practice, or that there were “corpse factories” in the German Empire used for turning cadavers into soap.

    Of all the monarchs in Europe, Wilhelm was the one who most wanted to avoid war.

    • Replies: @Anon
  303. Unzerker says:
    @Mulegino1

    Selling opium is a crime for recreational consumption

    It wasn’t in Europe and it certainly wasn’t in China, otherwise they wouldn’t have bought all that opium from the Europeans for all those centuries in the first place.

    China didn’t oppose the opium trade because they thought opium consumption was inherently evil or a war crime, but because by the 19th century their trade deficit was so large that huge amounts of silver were flowing out of the country.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  304. Hail says: • Website
    @utu

    Why do the allow the Brits to dictate history for them?

    I do not know exactly who all was involved, but I do not think it was “the Brits” exactly behind this Dresden Deflation campaign. That (“who was behind the campaign to deflate the numbers involved in the Dresden incident?”) would seem a great question to ask David Irving, though at times his answers to such questions err on the side of caution, let’s say, for obvious reasons given the many attempts to ruin him.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  305. Hail says: • Website
    @Dave Pinsen

    If I am reading the wiki bio of this Joerg Friedrich correctly and it accurately represents his politics, his early 2000s book condemned the bombing of Germany from a left-wing perspective, i.e., something like a Marxist criticism of Anglo-American imperialism, a la East Germany. There’s another good question: Did the East German state use Dresden as a political bludgeon against the West?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  306. Hail says: • Website
    @Tyrion 2

    I think Tyrion 2 is trying to take a neutral line here, but jingoism gleams through his words at times. Jingoism is rarely helpful — and is dangerous if in the minds the helmsmen of the state, regardless of nationality.

    As for British feeling on Dresden: The foreword to Irving’s Dresden book was written by RAF Air Marshal Robert Saundby, who was involved at the highest levels in the bombing of Germany, effectively second-in-command from Arthur ‘Bomber’ Harris. (Irving’s Dresden book in PDF is not hard to find, as he himself offers it for free on his website.)

    The foreword by Marshal Saundby include these words:

    That the bombing of Dresden was a great tragedy none can deny. That it was really a military necessity few, after reading this book, will believe. It was one of those terrible things that sometimes happen in wartime, brought about by an unfortunate combination of circumstances. Those who approved it were neither wicked nor cruel, though it may well be that they were too remote from the harsh realities of war to understand fully the appalling destructive power of air bombardment in the spring of 1945. [....]

    This book [Destruction of Dresden (1964)] tells, dispassionately and honestly, the story of a deeply tragic example, in time of war, of man’s inhumanity to man. Let us hope that the horrors of Dresden and Tokyo, Hiroshima and Hamburg, may drive home to the whole human race the futility, savagery, and utter uselessness of modern warfare. We must not make the fatal mistake, however, of believing that war can be avoided by unilateral disarmament [....]

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  307. Hail says: • Website
    @Colin Wright

    it’s implausible to argue Britain ‘won’ World War Two

    I am not sure if this is apocryphal or not, but David Irving himself is quoted as having said:

    “If the British soldiers on the beaches of Normandy in 1944 could look forward to [the present] and see what England has become, they would not have bothered to advance another forty yards up the beach.”

  308. Hail says: • Website
    @Colin Wright

    At the moment, we’re caught between conventional historiography — which is still mired in the ‘Hitler as arch-fiend’ paradigm — and the opinions of such figures as David Irving — and Irving does suffer from a thinly veiled case of Hitler-admiration. Neither side is going to give us a satisfying answer to the question.

    It’s almost as if it doesn’t need to be a He-Said-She-Said, but that forensic evidence could be found, and used, in determining what went on, as they do in criminal murder trials… I wonder why no one has ever thought of that?

    Anyway, there is one important pitfall of Holocaust revisionism even for those unworried about political-police knocking on their doors, and it is this:

    Any such discussions quickly devolve into seeming to ‘deny’ that many Jews died, and then people react emotionally to that. (Leading Holocaust revisionists, as I understand it, agree that around a million Jews may have died while in the German sphere of control through 1945, of all causes; they just insist there was no extermination program.)

    This is a corollary to the bigger pitfall we all have lived with for decades, at least in the English-speaking world: The notion that no populations suffered in Europe in the 1940s except the Jews (i.e., that gentile suffering, deaths, and losses of any kinds simply are not comparable in scale at all); in fact, nearly every population east of the Rhine suffered major losses in this period. We never hear of them. To take a (maybe too obvious) example, How many German civilians died in the 1940s? Does anyone know, or care?

  309. Anonymous[174] • Disclaimer says:
    @Unzerker

    The punishment for treason in wartime is usually death, isn’t it? I’m not approving of it, just saying.

    How do you think they died?

    • Replies: @Unzerker
  310. iffen says:
    @Incitatus

    the concerted effort against him shameful for any who honor free speech.

    He filed the suit against Lipstadt. The judgement of the court was that he was a denier among other things, including being an apologist for Hitler. How is this shameful? Don’t you honor the UK legal process and institutions?

  311. Mulegino1 says:
    @Unzerker

    It wasn’t in Europe and it certainly wasn’t in China, otherwise they wouldn’t have bought all that opium from the Europeans for all those centuries in the first place.

    China didn’t oppose the opium trade because they thought opium consumption was inherently evil or a war crime, but because by the 19th century their trade deficit was so large that huge amounts of silver were flowing out of the country.

    So? So? It is one thing for a country’s government to oppose something on purely mercantile grounds. It is another to go to war against a sovereign country for doing so.

    A typical Talmudic mindset at work. Your kosher casuistry does not work on the rest of us. Ecce the mentality of the chosen: anything that interferes with the profits of Jews (in this case, the criminal Sassoon family) must be met by devastating force of arms.

  312. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @iffen

    including being an apologist for Hitler. How is this shameful?

    Because unless he sued for libel over that claim, it is irrelevant.

    Also I thought truth was no defense to a libel charge in GB? Ah well, my American anti-Brit upbringing must be at fault.

  313. @jilles dykstra

    Yes. Operation Market Garden. I’m well acquainted with the military history.

    No. A last chance of honour for western generals before the war was over was not the goal. I don’t really understand how you came to that conclusion.

    Rather it was an attempt to bring the war to a conclusion more quickly that was the goal.

    Again, what is your point?

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  314. Anonymous[174] • Disclaimer says:
    @iffen

    The judgement of the court was that he was a denier among other things, including being an apologist for Hitler. How is this shameful?

    If “being an apologist for Hitler” was not one of the issues adjudicated at the trial, it was irrelevant and suggests a corrupting bias in the judge.

  315. Incitatus says:
    @iffen

    As said “Caring what Lipstadt wrote was his [Irving’s] first mistake, suing her the second”. Both contravene [Lipstadt’s] free speech. Irving was wrong. He lost. He was ruined. It had little to do with his work, except what Lipstadt thought Irving should have mentioned and, finding it lacking, labeled him a denier. He fell for her bait.

    Lipstadt’s worth reading, but not in the same league as Irving. She defended against Irving’s lawsuit, as well she should. It will be the main byline in her obituary, rather than her academic work.

    The campaign against Irving, undertaken at little or no personal risk by his adversaries [e.g. Les Wexner, Victoria’s Secret] was financially one sided. No doubt they disliked Irving’s interpretation of history (if – big if – they read him), but possibly more important was the fact he attracts those who pine for the good-old Nazi days. Is that Irving’s fault? Yes and no. A bloody mess, all ways around. Nothing to do with history. Everything to do with hubris, money, spite, political correctness.

    Having read three of Irving’s works – including ‘Hitler’s War’ – don’t agree he’s “an apologist for Hitler”. ‘Hitler’s War’ recounts the war through Hitler’s eyes. Read it and make up your own mind. If that’s still allowed.

    There are much more vital and immediate works if you’re concerned with how a Nazi minority leveraged hate into absolute power. That’s what I worry about. Irving’s not the author. Neither is Lipstadt.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @iffen
  316. @Momus

    Here’s the thing that makes it absolutely clear that you’re a bullshit-artist who has simply accepted what you’ve been told, like a goose under gavage.

    NO LINK.

    If you weren’t bullshitting, you would have included a link. I wouldn’t give a fuck if it was to a German-language site: my German is just fine.

    Witness testimony is worthless: anybody who has reviewed witness testimony will be aware of the lampshade fraud; the soap-from-fat fraud; the converyor-belt-that-evaporated-1000-Jews-at-a-time fraud; the Wilkomerski fraud; the ‘apples though the fence’ fraud; the ‘raised by wolves’ fraud… and so on, and so forth.

    Like I said, I don’t give much of a shit about what happened in Germany 70-odd years ago.. but I’m a data-driven guy who insists on evidence. Documentary evidence.

    WHERE’S YOUR LINK? you fraud.

    FWIW I care far more about what happened in Palestine 70 years ago (for wqhich there is absolutely abundant evidence, as should be expected when things actually happen): the victims in that case had not made a huge song and dance about “declaring war” on their subsequent oppressors, and did not belong to a race-cult whose entire foundation myth revels in the genocide of no less than 6 entire populations (e.g., the book of Joshua).

    Moses supposedly leads a rampage of genocide, and 3000 years later the cult loses its shit because about 30% of its adherents get wiped out because someone takes their March 24, 1933 declaration of war against Germany seriously… crybabies. (And have you read what Jabotinsky wrote about Germany? That Jews should seek the annihilation of Germany, to the last child? Imagine if stuff like that had been found anywhere in the writings of, say, bin Laden or al-Zawahiri – there would have been a far larger death toll from America’s post-911 histrionics)

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @anarchyst
    , @Anon
    , @Momus
  317. @Henry's Cat

    I met Mr. Irving at a 4 day gun show in Pomona CA roughly a year or so before the trial. The first day of the show he was talking about his law suit and how he was going to use it to expose the myths of the holocaust. He was quite confident of it. The next day he wasn’t doing too well and having difficulty talking as roughly 10 young men wearing blue t shirts with the star of david on them from the Jewish Defense League (JDL) had just roughed him up and made in his face death threats. That should have given him a clue as to what he was up against. Irving is a disappearing breed, the english eccentric professor who is brave but also rather clueless in some ways. It was with some sadness that I followed his personal gotterdammerung.

  318. About a third of German voters favored Nazis at their peak

    That borders on disingenuous, and significantly understates the NSDAP’s ‘peak’ popularity – because it does not couch the ‘about a third’ (actually 38.66%, which is far closer to 40% than to ‘a third’) in context.

    If I was a cynic, I might think you presented the statistic like that in order to try to give the (false) impression that the German government of the time was less popular than a randomly-selected run-of-the-mill Western democracy.

    In fact, the electoral result for the NSDAP for 1933 represents the largest proportion of the eligible voting population in a full-franchise voluntary election, in the 20th century. (I’m talking about all of the elections undertaken by democratic countries in the Allies here: France, the UK, Germany, South Africa, Canada, Australia, New Zealand).

    To put the NSDAP’s electoral success in context: the proportion of the franchise that voted NSDAP was larger than the proportion who voted for any US President in the full-franchise era; in fact, the proportion of the franchise that votes for the winner in US Presidential elections, has averaged 29% in the 20th century (and 31% since Reconstruction); worse still, only 1 president since WWI (LBJ) was elected with more votes than abstentions (i.e., votes for ‘none of the above’)… and none of them got 38.66% of the franchise.

    Interestingly, Obama was right on the average: he received the votes of 29% of eligible voters. If 38.7% is “about a third”, then 29% is “significantly less than a third”, surely?

    There is an average 42% turnout for US Congressional mid-terms, so they are a priori unrepresentative swill.

    Anyone who believes in democracy, faces this hurdle: the NSDAP was objectively the most-democratically-supported government in the history of full-franchise Western democracy.

    Population: 65,362,115

    Registered Voters: 44,685,764

    Turnout: 39,655,029

    Turnout (%): 88.74%

    Abstentions: 11.26%

    Nazi Party Votes: 17,277,180

    NSDAP/RegVoters : 38.66%

    NSDAP/Turnout: 43.57%

    Number of US Presidents who got 38.66% of eligible voters since the full franchise: ZERO.

    Number of French Presidents, English Prime Ministers, Australian Prime Ministers, New Zealand Prime Ministers, South African Prime Ministers, Canadian Prime Ministers (etc, etc… you see where this is going) who got 38.66% of eligible voters in a full-franchise election: ZERO.

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @Momus
    , @Incitatus
  319. @Johnny Rico

    Read the book ‘A Bridge too Far’.
    Dutch warnings that it was impossible were ignored, the preparation was a mess, ground troops could not communicate with the planes dropping supplies.

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  320. @Hail

    Hitler admiration.
    The following book, based on interviews with Germans in the early eighties, who voted for Hitler, shows that most of them saw 1938 as the happiest year in their life.
    No unemployment any more, safety on the streets.
    A little man with just gymnasium education, who never had a job, accomplished this.
    Francois de Wendel states ‘the big mistake of Hitler was to underestimate the power of international jewry’.
    Kai S. Schreyber (Hrsg.), ´Warum wir ADOLF HITLER wählten, Jungwähler von 1933/38 berichten’, 2001 Kiel
    Jean-Noël Jeanneney, ‘Francois de Wendel en République, L’Argent et le Pouvoir 1914-1940, Paris 1976
    In 1938 the USA unemployment was as high as in 1933, despite New Deal fairy tales.

  321. @Hail

    The Dresden genocide was to impress Stalin

  322. @Mulegino1

    Anyone who read detailed accounts of the Polish, Norwegian and French operations knows that German rearmament was mere bluff.
    This bluff necessitated the bombing of Warsaw and Rotterdam, the last bombing was called off at the last moment, but somehow the order did not reach the planes.

  323. The whole discussion about Hitler misses the point, what FDR’s friend Sol Bloom admirably describes in a few words ‘the great accomplishment of FDR was that he slowly prepared the USA people for war’.
    Beard states the same in a whole book.
    Anyone now could know that indeed Sept 11 was ‘the new Pearl Harbour’, a pretext for war.
    Hitler never wanted war, in order to accomplish his political goals he had to make his enemies believe that when necessary he would wage war.
    His goal was just to restore the Germany that existed before 1914.
    A J P Taylor, ‘The Origins of the Second World War’, 1961, 1967, Londen
    Hitler did not understand that a pre 1914 Germany would not be tolerated.
    As Churchill said ‘the whole period 1914 can best be seen as one long war’.
    Sol Bloom, ‘The Autobiography of Sol Bloom’, New York 1948
    Charles A. Beard, ‘President Roosevelt and the coming of the war 1941, A study in appearances and realities’, New Haven, 1948

    • Replies: @Crimson2
  324. @Unzerker

    Those that were not part of the camp self management died after six months of under nourishment.
    This was aggravated from early 1945 on, USA fighter bombers destroyed anything that moved, so hardly any food reached the camps.
    SS camp commanders desperately tried to find food.
    Also no Zyklon-B any more, that killed lice, so on top of that typhoid.
    The point of murdering a German officer at the end of 1944 I never understood.

    • Replies: @Unzerker
  325. annamaria says:
    @iffen

    “Don’t you honor the UK legal process and institutions?”
    – Don’t you pretend that the Lobby / The Friends of Israel’ have no influence, at all levels, on the governance in the US and UK?
    Here is a reminder for your “most moral” attitude: https://forward.com/news/national/385698/texas-law-requires-hurricane-harvey-victims-to-refuse-to-boycott-israel-to/
    “In a widely distributed document, the city of Dickinson — a small suburb of Houston near the Galveston Bay — is requiring residents and business owners to verify that they do not and will not boycott Israel in order to receive hurricane relief funds… “It is absolutely unconscionable for the government to propose a political litmus test on hurricane relief grants,” said Brian Hauss, a staff attorney with the ACLU…”
    – There is also an inaction — blatantly amoral — of the “legal process and institutions” with regard to this and more: http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2018/06/razan-al-najjar-f-b-ali.html
    “She was a 21-year old Palestinian nurse and paramedic. And a mother.
    She was killed while running (along with other paramedics) towards the Gaza border fence with Israel.
    They were running to treat some Palestinian protesters who had been wounded by shots fired from across the border. Like the others with her, she was wearing her white paramedic uniform and waving her arms above her head as she ran towards the fence. An Israeli sniper on the other side of the fence aimed at her, and put a bullet in her chest.”
    Comment section:
    EO: “Killing medical personnel has been a war crime for over a century and a half. Israel is a signatory to the Geneva Convention…”
    B: “The IDF “investigation” is finished. It was an “accident”. How you shoot someone through their center of mass with a precise sniper rifle from 100 yards away by “accident” eludes me.”
    — Your tribe has put your criminals above the law. Hence your insistence on “legal process and institutions” in Irving case has a minuscule value.

  326. iffen says:
    @Incitatus

    Lipstadt’s worth reading, but not in the same league as Irving.

    I have read a couple of her articles, very shallow imo. I think he likely thought that he would get to question her on the stand.

    he attracts those who pine for the good-old Nazi days. Is that Irving’s fault?

    Yes.

    if you’re concerned with how a Nazi minority leveraged hate into absolute power.

    Wasn’t open and widespread anti-Semitism key? I don’t blame Jews for wanting to destroy or fight any and all attempts to make Holocaust denial just another opinion.

  327. iffen says:
    @Kratoklastes

    You don’t care about 70 years ago in Germany, but you work yourself into a lather over a likely mythical event from 3, 4, 5 thousand years BC.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  328. DFH says:
    @Kratoklastes

    Number of French Presidents, English Prime Ministers, Australian Prime Ministers, New Zealand Prime Ministers, South African Prime Ministers, Canadian Prime Ministers (etc, etc… you see where this is going) who got 38.66% of eligible voters in a full-franchise election: ZERO.

    Actually Clement Attlee in 1950 got 46.1% of the vote with a turnout of 83.9% of the vote meaning that he got 38.678% of the electorate and in 1951 Churchill got 48% with an 82.6% turnout meaning that 39.648% of the electorate voted for him, thus beating Hitler (again)

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  329. iffen says:
    @Incitatus

    Read it and make up your own mind.

    Maybe I will, but there is more to life than pondering the JQ from the pov of Nazis.

    Also, I am put off by writers who write of their work as “Real History”, who have historical hypotheses (whatever these are) and are “startled” by their discoveries that support the hypothesis.

    I know that the 20th century model of professional journalism has collapsed and will not return, and that much of academia is an intellectual wasteland; however, it does not follow that R. Unz’s National Enquirer model is the ticket forward.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
    , @annamaria
    , @utu
    , @Anon
  330. anarchyst says:
    @Kratoklastes

    Judicial notice”, a legal doctrine, is used to turn a “commonly accepted belief”, however wrong, or even scientifically and physically impossible, into the equivalent of “religious orthodoxy” from which no dissent or counter-argument is permitted. THIS is the tool that jews use to legitimize even the most outlandish and ridiculous holocaust ™ claims.
    This tactic was used in the Nuremberg trials to good effect, and is used in today’s “kangaroo courts” against those who dare question the lies, fabrications, and claims of witnesses about any aspect of the holocaust ™.
    The two latest victims of “judicial notice” and “holocaustianity ™” are 8o-plus-year-old grandmothers Monika Schaefer and Ursula Haverbeck who are incarcerated in German high-security prisons as we speak.
    TRUTH cannot be used as a defense when “judicial notice” is invoked..

  331. annamaria says:
    @iffen

    “I don’t blame Jews for wanting to destroy or fight any and all attempts to make Holocaust denial just another opinion.”
    – Preach to your lot first before attacking the fact-based research:

    https://www.salon.com/2014/02/25/is_the_us_backing_neo_nazis_in_ukraine_partner/

    “Svoboda’s openly pro-Nazi politics have not deterred Senator John McCain from addressing a EuroMaidan rally alongside Tyahnybok, nor did it prevent Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland from enjoying a friendly meeting with the Svoboda leader this February. Eager to fend off accusations of anti-Semitism, the Svoboda leader recently hosted the Israeli Ambassador to Ukraine. “I would like to ask Israelis to also respect our patriotic feelings,” Tyahnybok has remarked. “Probably each party in the [Israeli] Knesset is nationalist. With God’s help, let it be this way for us too.”
    – Here are the results of the ziocons’ intervention in the Ukrainian affairs: “After Yanukovich fled his palatial estate by helicopter, EuroMaidan protesters destroyed a memorial to Ukrainians who died battling German occupation during World War II. Sieg heil salutes and the Nazi Wolfsangel symbol have become an increasingly common site in Maidan Square, and neo-Nazi forces have established “autonomous zones” in and around Kiev.”
    – Again, go to preach your prominent zionists-ziocons on neo-Nazism and Holocaust denial instead of sanctimonious lecturing for the Unz readers.
    By the way, iffen, do you have anything to say about Kagans’ clan and Pyatt, which were so instrumental in the revival of neo-Nazism in Ukraine? Or their ethnicity puts them above reprieve?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  332. annamaria says:
    @iffen

    Why don’t you turn your attention to the ultimate Holocaust deniers — neo-Nazis and their supporters, including the influential Kagans’ clan?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)

    “The All-Ukrainian Union “Svoboda” is a Ukrainian nationalist political party.
    The party was founded in 1991 as the Social-National Party of Ukraine. … It is widely considered a fascist and/or anti-semitic party.”
    More on the Kagans’ friends: “Andriy Parubiy, the new secretary of Ukraine’s security council, was a co-founder of the Neo-Nazi Social-National Party of Ukraine (SNPU), otherwise known as Svoboda. And his deputy, Dmytro Yarosh, is the leader of a party called the Right Sector which, according to historian Timothy Stanley, “flies the old flag of the Ukrainian Nazi collaborators at its rallies.”
    The Svoboda party has tapped into Nazi symbolism including the “wolf’s angel“ rune, which resembles a swastika and was worn by members of the Waffen-SS, a panzer division that was declared a criminal organization at Nuremberg.” https://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-hughes/the-neo-nazi-question-in_b_4938747.html
    —There was not a peep from Deborah Lipstadt and the ever-squealing ADL re the revival of neo-Nazism in Ukraine. Why?

    https://therealnews.com/stories/max-blumenthal-us-is-arming-neo-nazis-in-ukraine

    “Max Blumenthal reports that the US has provided military assistance to the Azov Battalion, known as a bastion of neo-Nazism within the Ukrainian armed forces. He also discusses US and Israeli ties to the far-right government in Poland, where neo-Nazism is on the rise.”
    — Where are the iffins and Lipstadts “wanting to destroy or fight any and all attempts to make Holocaust denial just another opinion?” https://consortiumnews.com/2014/09/16/hiding-ukraines-neo-nazi-reality/
    “Ever since serious protest broke out in Ukraine in February the Western mainstream media, particularly in the United States, has seriously downplayed the fact that the usual suspects the US/European Union/NATO triumvirate have been on the same side as the neo-Nazis.”

    • Replies: @Wally
  333. notanon says:

    thing is… even if the revisionists are right (at least in the west) i.e. internment camps followed at the end of the war by malnutrition and typhus as the German economy collapsed, to the average person that’s still pretty holocausty.

    the problem revisionists have (imo) is if the average person sees pictures from the camps of skeletal people and piles of bodies (which is consistent with both versions) and that visual is combined with a mocking tone about holohoaxes they’ll think the revisionist is a bad character and will be inclined to not believe them… so they shouldn’t do it cos to the average person the revisionist version of what happened is still very bad.

    personally, if it was exaggerated to get a homeland so it couldn’t happen again then from a realpolitik pov i could understand why it was done – my main problem with the official holocaust narrative is not how it was used in the past but how it is being used now as a weapon in the replacement of Europeans in their homelands – which is not justified.

  334. notanon says:
    @Anon

    joke about the Ghurkas being enough to frighten the Argies into submission but being held back so the Marines could win some medals

    the Ghurkas aren’t the only ones who like bayonet charges

    • Replies: @Anon
  335. Wally says:
    @annamaria

    So clueless.
    There was no ’6,000,000′ to deny, as has been proven repeatedly by many.

    Annamaria cites two of the most ridiculous leftwing sources there are, hardly credible for any ‘neo-Nazi’. Downright laughable is the best description.

    Annamaria cites Zionist Max Bumenthal as if he is to be believed. LOL

    “The Svoboda party has tapped into Nazi symbolism including the “wolf’s angel“ rune, which resembles a swastika and was worn by members of the Waffen-SS, a panzer division that was declared a criminal organization at Nuremberg.”
    Nuremberg, right. The Show Trials that accpeted a ‘forensic report’ that the germans used steam chambers for the mass exterminations of Jews, where ‘the Nazis used atomic bombs’ was accepted.

    Try to do better, Annamaria.

    ‘Germans killed 20,000 Jews with atomic bomb’ LOL

    more:
    ‘Nazis killed Jews with magic atomic bomb…’

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1150

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Ralphie
  336. annamaria says:
    @iffen

    Do you blame Jews for hating and fighting the inconvenient truths? https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2018/06/08/ron-unz-defender-truth-paul-craig-roberts/
    “The former chancellor of Germany, who escaped the Nazis and lived in England, wrote to Churchill that two of Hitler’s financiers were Jews who managed two of the largest banks in Germany. One was a Zionist leader. The letter exists, and there is no reason to doubt its honesty. However, for making an important historical document public, Irving was labeled by a vicious propaganda campaign an “anti-semite” and “holocaust denier.”
    Irving simply thought that he was being an historian.”

  337. Ralphie says:
    @Wally

    You don’t actually know who Max Blumenthal is, do you? There’s maybe no other journalist in the United States more hostile to Israel than he is.

    If you don’t like his opinion because he’s a Jew, just say so.

  338. hyperbola says:
    @jacques sheete

    Many facts are kept closely censored from general knowledge. It is not only the Roosevelts that are connected with the jewish opium trade.

    The Yale Skull & Bones Society
    … a secret society with an interesting membership

    http://www.newruins.com/deer-island/42-2/

    … Skull and Bones — the Russell Trust Association — was first established among the class graduating from Yale in 1833. Its founder was William Huntington Russell of Middletown, Connecticut. The Russell family was the master of incalculable wealth derived from the largest U.S. criminal organization of the nineteenth century: Russell and Company, the great opium syndicate.

    There was at that time a deep suspicion of, and national revulsion against, freemasonry and secret organizations in the United States, fostered in particular by the anti-masonic writings of former U.S. President John Quincy Adams. Adams stressed that those who take oaths to politically powerful international secret societies cannot be depended on for loyalty to a democratic republic.

    But the Russells were protected as part of the multiply intermarried grouping of families then ruling Connecticut. The blood-proud members of the Russell, Pierpont, Edwards, Burr, Griswold, Day, Alsop, and Hubbard families were prominent in the pro-British party within the state. Many of their sons would be among the members chosen for the Skull and Bones Society over the years.” …..

    …..Also on the same list of society members are:

    1917 – Prescott Sheldon Bush
    1948 – George Herbert Walker Bush
    1968 – George Walker Bush

    and, most curious in light of the 2004 Democratic presidential candidate to opose George Walker Bush …

    1966 – John Forbes Kerry

  339. @jilles dykstra

    You are just in a world of your own, aren’t you?

    • Replies: @Anon
  340. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Momus

    Psychological intimidation and financially and socially ruining a person’s life is much more effective than killing them. Killing someone risks making them a martyr, plus no one can witness their long, drawn-out and humiliating social ostracization and downfall which is a much scarier and a more reinforcing message for people not to leave the reservation of acceptable/tolerated speech and behavior. Also, diplomatically it might become problematic if the Mossad started assassinating citizens of allied nations.

    The next day he wasn’t doing too well and having difficulty talking as roughly 10 young men wearing blue t shirts with the star of david on them from the Jewish Defense League (JDL) had just roughed him up and made in his face death threats.

    http://www.unz.com/announcement/the-remarkable-historiography-of-david-irving/#comment-2364797

    I have suspected for a long time that the Jewish Defense League (JDL) is a Mossad front group, for details read here:

    They (Mossad, et al.) have co-opted, infiltrated or even founded/funded many Western, “controlled opposition”, anti-Muslim nationalist groups like the English Defence League (EDL), for example

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/forward-is-jordan-peterson-enabling-jew-hatred/#comment-2328862

    ”But my own suspicion is that the Israeli Mossad had a hand in the thing,” he said, referring to the Israeli secret service. ”They probably used J.D.L. local people who did the technical work on it, local terrorists.”

    https://www.unz.com/article/hero-worship-tommytards/#comment-2350590

    I am pretty sure Mr. Unz is on their watch list too by now.

    The Unz Review was the first website to be hit, I believe, after it published the following article on April 8-9, 2018:

    “How Israel and Its Partisans Work to Censor the Internet”

    https://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/

    “Yes, our website was hit by an exceptionally large wave of bots from a very wide variety of different IP addresses, and it began soon after we released this particular article. Perhaps coincidence, perhaps not.

    We finally managed to block them all earlier this morning using some temporary measures. I’ll be spending the next day or two adding some further defenses in hopes of preventing something like this from happening in the future.” – https://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/#comment-2280647

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2018/05/counter-currents-under-attack-3/#comment-1406218

    The Counter-Currents website was attacked after they started publishing the following series of articles by/on Rolf Peter Sieferle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolf_Peter_Sieferle : https://www.counter-currents.com/tag/rolf-peter-sieferle/ and published this piece by Samuel Francis about David Irving and other cases of censorship and deplatforming:

    The real reason for the suppression of the Irving book is that the ADL and its allies, including New York Times columnist Frank Rich, had demanded that St. Martin’s drop it and were able to generate sufficient pressure on the publisher that it was afraid to honor its contract with the author. It is easy enough to blame “the Jews” for the pressure, but the real reasons for the campaign are somewhat deeper. World War II and the orthodox historical account of it as a crusade against a racist and reactionary regime constitute a major charter myth of the current System, and Mr. Irving’s oeuvre constitutes a major challenge to that myth. If indeed he has dug up materials from the long-unknown Goebbels diary that challenge the conventional wisdom about the Nazi regime, its persecution of the Jews, or World War II, the System has good reason to want to make sure it does not see the light of day.

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2018/05/sitting-on-bayonets/

    ANTIFA calls Jewish Defense League “Nazis”

    France’s Fighting Jews

    Jewish Defense League is a terrorist group authorized by French Governments

    Audio of UK Jewish Defence League (JDL) death threat against British journalist Tony Gosling (2012)

    Buzzfeed Journalist Attacked By Mob

    • Replies: @Zumbuddi
  341. tac says:

    Alexandr Solzhenitsyn 200 Years Together English audiobook (Pt 1):

    Alexandr Solzhenitsyn 200 Years Together English audiobook (Pt 2):

  342. Unzerker says:
    @Anonymous

    Treason? I wasn’t clear I guess. This was in the Netherlands. There was no treason. We were occupied.

    These innocent Dutch Christian men died of a combination of starvation, being over-worked and diseases. 92% of them died in a time span of just 6 months.

    This was by design. To me it matters little if they died this way or by being gassed. They were murdered…

    • Replies: @bj
  343. Unzerker says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Murdering a German officer? He died in a fire fight. A resistance fighter died ass well fighting these occupiers.

    You are making excuses. Of the 110,000 Dutchmen who were held between 42-45 in the tropics by the cruel and racist Japanese, 13% died. Now compare that to the 92% death rate in a mere 6 months for the Nazis. The amazing thing is that this was after 59 men were released in Amersfoort, because they were unfit to work. So the 92% who died were all fit and healthy men.

    From this it is quite clear that the German labor camps were meant to kill its occupants. They didn’t die of “natural causes”, they died by design. They were murdered by the Nazis.

    I sure hope you, Jilles Dykstra, picked your name at random and aren’t Dutch or of Dutch decent.

    Again, it’s one thing to be skeptical of the narrative and ask evidence, but you guys go completely off the rails.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  344. Callinit says:
    @International Jew

    Hmm, Ron makes it sound like lawsuits file themselves.

    It was quite the ass-kicking…

    I think a more apt descriptive is that Irving was overrun by weasels. I guess that’s an ass-kicking in a purely existential sense, which is about all many Jews care about, which is why so many of other major races quietly fear or despise them so.

  345. Wally says:
    @Unzerker

    said:
    In my country the adult male population of the village where I grew up in,Putten ,was send to concentration camps as a reprisal for a botched resistance attack. These were all Germanic Christian males. This happened in October 1944. Of the 589 who arrived at the camps, only 48 survived the remaining 6 months of WW2. Of those 48, 5 died shortly after the war of complications.
    Yes, they weren’t gassed, but if 92% of all healthy adult males die in a 6 month period, that is a feature, not a bug. Don’t go claiming that, because there weren’t gas-chambers, these camps weren’t designed to kill off its occupants. Those 541 innocent Germanic Christian men were murdered in these camps by the Nazis.
    I think it’s healthy to be skeptical of all the claims about the holocaust, but some of you go to the other extreme.

    Your proof that they were “murdered” is where exactly? Heretofore you have presented none. We only see you ranting.

    Curious that asking for proof of claimed mass murders is ‘going to extremes’.

    http://www.codoh.com

  346. Wally says:
    @utu

    Why do ignore the obvious?

    So those are not Red Army troops? LOL

    Prove that is was snowing when the Red Army entered.

    Not every day in Warsaw is sub-zero.

    And most important I do not see Warsaw completely destroyed’. LOL

    You are also contradicting the Jew sources of the photos.

    more:

    Surrender of the Warsaw Uprising resistance, 5 October 1944
    buildings intact


    Soviet army greeted as it liberates Warsaw in 1945.

    • Replies: @utu
  347. @DFH

    I’m aware of those elections: they do not represent a ‘full’ franchise worthy of the name.

    Both of those elections pre-date the Representation of the People Act 1969, which extended the franchise to all adults over the age of 18, thereby bringing it into line with the age at which young men could
    ★ purchase alcoholic beverages in licensed premises (Intoxicating Liquor (Sale to Persons Under Eighteen) Act 1923;
    ★ get married (with parental consent);or
    ★ sign up – or be conscripted – to kill and die for the UK government.

    I know it sounds like hair-splitting to exclude the 1950s UK elections, but if you can be pressed into service by a government for whom you can’t vote, the franchise is incomplete.

    Note that on that basis, the US franchise was not actually ‘full’ until 1971 (which is only 4 years after the Civil Rights Act which helped undermine systematic disenfranchisement of blacks, particularly in the South). There were men conscripted and sent to fight and die in Korea and Viet Nam, who were not eligible to participate in the electoral process that selected the vermin who sent them to fight and die.

    Weirdly, Wikipedia’s entry for the March 1933 elections in Germany gives slightly different figures to the ones I have: they have the same turnout number and the same votes cast for the NSDAP, but they think it evaluates to 43.91% of the vote (thus giving the NSDAP 38.97% of the eligible franchise, not 38.66% – i.e., my franchise numbers must be lower than theirs).

    No matter (although as a side effect it dispenses with the Atlee numbers): point is, UK elections prior to 1969 were not full-franchise.

    The number of disenfranchised – those aged between 18 and 21 at the time – currently represent roughly 5.4% of the population aged 18 and over; that number is likely to have been higher in 1950 & 51 due to the demographic hole caused by two wars in less than a generation (I can’t find age tables for the 1950s census, but I will look).

  348. Zumbuddi says:
    @Unzerker

    Was Putten firebombed by Allies?

    How many German Christians, innocent civilians who were NOT resistance fighters, were killed by Allies?

    The firebombing was at its height by mid-1944, when your neighbors chose to act against their own people. By that time, condition s throughout Germany including the camps were dictated by Allies, not “features” controlled by Nazis.

  349. Zumbuddi says:
    @FKA Max

    This morning in Washington the audience at Trump-supporting Faith and Values conference cheered when Ron Dermer explained that Jews had to kill Gazans “to protect Israel’s [non-defined] borders, ” and they applauded for Mossad.

    Dermer said Jews in Israel wished that Hamas took the same care to protect Gazans as IDF does “we leaflet, use teargas . . “

    • Replies: @Momus
  350. Anon[238] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tyrion 2

    I have only just become aware/been reminded that the unfortunate General Percival surrendered Singapore to a Japanese force with one third of the numbers that he had under command. (Apparently Japanese ingenuity extended to speeding up the rate of artillery fire when they were close to running out of shells successfully giving the impression that Singapore was about to be blown to pieces). Yet we read that the Japanese were defeated in NE Asia by superior Soviet tactics and combined use of tanks, guns and aircraft. And yet again the human factor was obviously overwhelmingly important in the first months of Barbarossa.

    It is obviously well beyond the expertise on this thread to analyse the relevant balance of factors precisely but it clearly can be found to differ at lots of levels and in various specialties. (E.g. one can imagine that a prolonged battle might turn on the speed at which disabled heavy tanks could be returned to battle, leading to huge hauls of infantry as prisoners).

    Rommel seems to have been worth as much as a lot of other resources (and the German 88mm gun was pretty important) just as the morale of his Italian allies after defeats by British forces was a negative. The Australians in Tobruk were tough and experienced, those rushed to Singapore in January 1942 had hardly held a rifle. So… generalisations are hard.

  351. utu says:
    @Wally

    Home Army surrendered in Sept/Oct 1944. The demolition of Warsaw continued for several more months. It is possible that buildings on the pict subsequently were demolished.

    Whatever you are trying to demonstrate with this pict proves nothing. Probably you are working for them Jews to tarnish and compromise the reputation of legitimate revisionists.

    On the second pict we see Red Army soldiers greeted by civilian population in summer clothes. This cannot be Warsaw in January 1945. This pict can be from anywhere but certainly not from January 1945 Warsaw. Now, could it be from Warsaw? It could be from Praga the eastern bank of Vistula Warsaw quarter that was liberated by Red Army around the time when the Warsaw Uprising started in August 1944. It could be from some city in Poland or Slovakia or it can be from some movie made by Mosfilm. You do not know shit.

    Wally, why are you compromising revisionist cause? Who is paying you? Do you think that the instructions they got at CODOH from their paymasters was to hire the most stupid person they could find to do their outreach propaganda on internet and it fell on you? Is your job to make revisionist the laughing stock? It might not have been in your job description that you have seen but that’s exactly what you are doing. Poor Wally.

  352. Anon[238] • Disclaimer says:
    @jilles dykstra

    As slippery as usual. What does that book show other than that Northcliffe presided over a (perhaps successful) campaign in enemy territories that was premised on the value of using *the truth* such as the defeats being suffered on the Western Front.

    Here’s some elaboration to counter your terse falsehood:

    THE SPECTATOR

    4 September 1920
    Page 23

    [MORE]

    4 SEPTEMBER 1920,
    Secrets of Crewe House. By Sir Campbell Stuart. (Hodder and
    Stoughton. 7s. 6d. net.)—This interesting book describes the work done by Lord Northcliffe as Director of Propaganda in Enemy Countries from February to November, 1918. The author, who acted as Lord Northcliffe’s chief lieutenant at Crewe House, shows that the propagandists’ first and chief difficulty was in determining what they should propagate. Austria was obviously the weak spot, but, before setting to work on the non-German peoples of Austria, the department had to find out what policy the Allies meant to pursue when Austria gave in, especially with regard to the Southern Slavs and the Czechs. In the end the Allies formulated a statement of policy, and the propagandist efforts were rewarded by a stream of deserters from the Hapsburg armies. In the case of Germany, emphasis was laid on the distinction between the Emperor and his Junkers on the one side, and the German people on the other. By millions of leaflets dropped from the skies, by articles in the neutral Press, and by books and papers clandestinely circulated in Germany, the Germans were kept informed of the Allied victories of the summer and autumn and warned of their coining defeat. Sir Campbell Stuart points to Marshal von Hindenburg’s manifesto of August, 1918, against the Allies’ ” drumfue of printed paper ” as a good testimonial, confirmed at the time and since by General Ludendorff and other enemy leaders. There can be no doubt that this skilfully directed propaganda reinforced the effect of the military reverses and hastened the end of the war. The total cost of Crewe House for its last four months, covering its principal campaign, was £31,360. The book is fully illustrated with portraits and with photographs of typical leaflets. Lord Northcliffe adhered to the sound principle that telling the truth was sure to do the enemy most harm.

    Previous page Next page

    The Spectator, 22 Old Queen Street, London, SW1H 9HPAll articles and content Copyright © 2013 The Spectator (1828) Ltd | All rights reservedSpectator Archive by Netcopy

    Anyway it is just idiotic of you to pretend that what is used in propaganda to the enemy during a war has got anything to do with the verdict of historians. If you want to go into bat for any of Queen Victoria’s none too bright grandchildren I suggest that you at least blame the superior brains in the German military leadership as overawing and tricking the dim and arrogant Willy.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  353. Anon[238] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Indeed part of the (principally WASP) dysgenics which started with smaller families in the late 19th century. Catholic upper middle class kept on having large families longer which is why Catholics came to outnumber WASPs on the highest courts after a couple of generations. The Jews who escaped to Britain in the 30s would have done something to replenish upper middle class brains and fortunately far outweighed the disgusting Robert Maxwell overall :-)

  354. Anon[238] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mulegino1

    Any old crap as usual. Since there were only two relevant monarchs (Franz Joseph was irrelevant if not supported by Germany) what are you saying? **Above all, since he was indeed a monarch who had the power to prevent the war why didn’t he? And why didn’t he insist on the guarantee of Belgian neutrality being honoured?

    **I don’t recall much about the Czar’s part in the steps that led to war so perhaps you can enlighten me. Wasn’t it premised on Austria-Hungary attacking Serbia with German support?

  355. bj says:
    @Unzerker

    What was the name of your relative?

  356. Anon[238] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon111

    If the emphasis is on the word relatively how can it be disputed even if you also point to the underlying importance of rising wealth tending to produce relative benignity. By the end of the 18th century the Christian upper middle class had approved the Lord Chief Justice (a Scot I think) say ” the air of England is too pure for a slave to breathe: let the black go free” [my memory of the received version of Somerset's Case], got behind Wilberforce to abolish the slave trade, impeached Warren Hastings and at least threatened it with Robert Clive over their behaviour in India…. and on and on to the first factory legislation to protect children etc. Think of Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs as applied to nations and it shouldn’t seem surprising that the richest civilised Christian country, protected by being an island (as long as the Catholic Irish went along for the ride anyway) should be relatively benign. In Australia they even hanged some white settlers for killing Aborigines in the 1830s….. etc. Mind you civilised Germans in the 19th century contributed much to the advance of relatively benign civilisation as anyone enjoying e.g. botanical gardens, archaeological finds, opera or chamber music groups in the Anglosphere should know. Like 5th century Rome Britain was not strong enough after 1914, and especially after 1940, to be able to measure up to its own better standards. Still the adherence of the Commonwealth – not least India – to the institutions of Britain, and to continuing membership is some answer to any but perfectionist fantasists and, sadly a warning that America has failed to take notice of. This is not hindsight. I went public in 2003 with the view that the US hsd neither the military or economic strength nor the political stamina to successfully take on what it had begun un the ME. Now we see that the Chinese are fortifying islands that are in other countries waters when a strong and foresighted US should have done it long ago for the smaller countries. None of which means the once briefly sole superpower, protected by the seas and weak neighbours wasn’t relatively benign. The Marshall Plan wasn’t all about the Cold War….

  357. Anon[238] • Disclaimer says:
    @notanon

    I guess that the prospect of Gurkhas using their kukris was the stronger bit of propaganda.

  358. TimWebb says:
    @Jake

    The central but unrecognized fact about WSC being, as Irving says, that he was a protégé of the “shadowy group of businessmen” ( read Jews ) which by donating 40,000 pounds to his costs in 1936
    ensured his complete subsequent compliance in their scheme to destroy Nazi Germany, because of Hitler’s success in his strategy for re establishing Germany’s power and prestige via the mechanism of directly exchanging German manufactured goods for raw materials from abroad; thereby escaping the rapacious claws of tribal usury.
    The Jewish response to this strategy being to institute a worldwide boycott of those goods; so it is somewhat curious that they are today screaming about precisely the same strategy being applied to them via the BDS movement.

    And the rest, of course, actually IS history.

    Sorry about paragraph stucture; blame the software, or this device possibly.

    • Replies: @Anon
  359. Anon[165] • Disclaimer says:
    @iffen

    I don’t blame Jews for wanting to destroy or fight any and all attempts to make Holocaust denial just another opinion.

    What would be bad about Holocaust “denial” being just another opinion?

    • Replies: @Momus
  360. Anonymous[206] • Disclaimer says:

    Irving thrives on the attention that comes from all of his arrests, bans and other legal problems. He deliberately puts himself in these situations because it gets his name in the papers, face on TV – and the donations flowing.

    By contrast, the biggest blow to David Irving’s career wasn’t dealt by the Jews or the Left, but was entirely self-inflicted. It was when he called for gun control after the Sandy Hook shooting. He immediately lost most of his American supporters, and therefore his biggest source of income. He’s kept noticeably quiet since then. This is the kind of publicity he does not want or need.

    If the Jews and Left were smarter, they would keep quiet about Irving being a ‘Nazi’ or ‘anti-semite’, and instead shout loudly and often that he’s a gun-grabber.

  361. Anon[165] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kratoklastes

    Strong comment. Keep posting around here.

  362. Momus says:
    @Kratoklastes

    Have a look here for a couple of days; read the cites, get your German going on the original documents and get a sound historical perspective as a start for your search for the truth.

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/

    I doubt you will though.

    In my experience individuals who polish their jack boots and goose step around these sites are cowards; and afraid of the closely documented and meticulous research that shows the construction from ideological foundations, to physical construction to the horrible operation and concealment of the apparatus of Jewish death and defilement.

    If you were true to your convictions you would be applauding the horrible deaths of so many unfortunate Jewish people and commending old mate Adolf and his merry men.

    But no, too weak to do that and hide behind your demands for ‘documents’. Piss ant.

    • Replies: @Wally
  363. Momus says:
    @Zumbuddi

    Dermer said Jews in Israel wished that Hamas took the same care to protect Gazans as IDF does “we leaflet, use teargas . . “

    Probably the worlds most moral defense force in the world’s roughest neighbourhood.

    In actual news concerning disgusting atrocities the IDF is not accused of, the Germans have issued and international arrest warrant for Jamal Hassan, head of Syrian Air Force Intelligence:

    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5282126,00.html

    • Replies: @DFH
  364. Momus says:
    @Kratoklastes

    Number of French Presidents, English Prime Ministers, Australian Prime Ministers, New Zealand Prime Ministers, South African Prime Ministers, Canadian Prime Ministers (etc, etc… you see where this is going) who got 38.66% of eligible voters in a full-franchise election: ZERO.

    Polish those jackboots and shine your knob mate. You do not know of what you speak.

    Prime ministers under the Westminster system are elected by the parlimentarians not the electorate at large.

  365. @Anon

    That the British were proud of Crewe house, it does not amaze me.
    Indeed Ludendorff had great esteem for British propaganda.
    However, no proof was ever presented for German war crimes.
    Lloyd George 1918 battle cry in the elections ‘hang the Kaiser’ was based on nothing.
    The great thing about the good British propaganda was never lying, just telling half the truth

  366. @Unzerker

    I am Dutch.
    That there was fire fight when murdering the German officer, quite possible.
    I never saw any explanation about why the man had to be killed.
    Do not know where your 92 % death rate comes from, but is can be true.
    The camps had self management, as even Elie Wiesel describes.
    This management ate well, up to 3500 kcal a day, the others got something like 1100 a day.
    Death in six months time.
    J.G. Burg, Schuld und Schicksal, Europas Juden zwischen Henkern und Heuchlern, München, 1962
    Paul Rassinier, ´Was ist Wahrheit ?, Die Juden und das Dritte Reich´, Leoni am Starnberger See, 7th printing, 1981 (Le véritable procès Eichmann ou les vainqueurs incorrigibles, 1963; The Real Eichmann Trial or the Incorrigible Victors. ISBN: 0911038485, 1983)
    Eugen Kogon, ‘Der SS-Staat, Das System der deutschen Konzentrationslager’, 1974, München
    As Kogon was part of the camp management, he was seven years in a camp, the book should be read carefully.
    Why the same nonsense is repeated here again and again,I do not understand.
    Rassinier’s book is in english

  367. @Hail

    The estimate of casulties just because of bombing the cities is two million.
    Martin Middlebrook, ‘The Berlin raids, R.A.F. Bomber Command Winter 1943-44’, Londen 1988 1990
    Forgot if he gives German casualty rates, but an excellent description of the horror and nonsense of the bombing.
    Also quite interesting, Zuckermann was the RAF scientific bombing expert
    Solly Zuckermann, ‘From Apes to Warlords, an autobiography, 1904- 46’, London 1988

  368. @timothy

    Hitler’s ‘Lebenstraum’ did not, I would interpret it, mean he wanted to conquer Russia to the Pacific Ocean, it would seem probably he would have been happy with, for example, some (or all) of Poland, Belarus, and the western part of Ukraine (many of whom, you might recall, supported Germany, according to some sources), and it is conceivable that given the power of his military, this might have been his intention. But then there is a fair amount of evidence indicating Stalin was actually planning to attack Germany, so Hitler decided his only defence to that was a full out offence, and all former plans were suddenly inoperable. A complicated situation to try to sort out from many decades in the future – but as far as Hitler in general goes, Irving does very much seem to be the go-to guy.

  369. DFH says:
    @Momus

    Your hasbara would be more effective if you used different aliases to attack David Irving and defend Zionism, just fyi

  370. Anonymous[429] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hail

    I have a friend who in the 70s and 80s had a job that took him all over Europe, including behind the Iron Curtain. He visited East Berlin several times and mentioned that, whereas the main streets (which western tourists got to see) were well developed and maintained, in the back streets there was rubble, ruined buildings and damage everywhere – the East German government still hadn’t repaired the damage of the war. This was deliberate. It was intended as a constant reminder to the population of the harm that the western powers had done to them.

  371. Anonymous[429] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    Jews have a greatly exaggerated view of the importance of the written word shaping culture and society. This is a deep cultural thing. They really do believe that the primary cause of anti-semitism is people reading ‘bad’ books, and that the best way to fight anti-semitism is to suppress those ‘bad’ books.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  372. Anonymous[429] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hail

    Note that this was published (1963) shortly after the Cuban Missile Crisis. It had timely relevance.

  373. Incitatus says:
    @iffen

    “there is more to life than pondering the JQ from the pov of Nazis”

    Agree. Not necessarily a popular opinion here on Planet Germania (nor on sister Planet Nippon).

    “Maybe I will [read Irving]“

    There are many, many others I’d read first, but suppose it depends on what one seeks. I recall his biographies as more interesting than ‘Hitler’s War’ (a rather dry read), but that’s just me.

    “I don’t blame Jews for wanting to destroy or fight any and all attempts to make Holocaust denial just another opinion”

    Lies should be exposed, truth defended. Disagree with extremism that compromises First Amendment rights or is excessively punitive.

    The Holocaust, with all the other death and murder, is important. It wasn’t the central reason for NSDAP or WW2. Letting it seem so is misleading and, more important, likely to distract from the central, incremental methodology of taking power and killing representative government. Enduring siren-songs that beckon abridgement of individual rights, law and due process.

    “I think he [Irving] likely thought that he would get to question her on the stand.”

    Agree. Hubris?

    he attracts those who pine for the good-old Nazi days. Is that Irving’s fault?
    “Yes”

    Ultimately I agree, but prefer they bask disinfected in full sunlight. Seems safer than concealed festering. E.g. Wally’s “traitors” response to thuggish Nazi murders of their own and many others. Hard to defend the indefensible, even for an accomplished denial spammer.

    “Wasn’t open and widespread anti-Semitism key?”

    Absolutely, but as one of many reliable scapegoats. November Criminals, Civilian Governance, Weimar ‘Moral Degeneracy’, Jazz, Modern Art, the Bauhaus, Modern Architecture, Democracy itself, Freemasons, France, International Banks, Decadent Capitalism, ‘Interest Slavery’, Versailles, Limits on the Military, Reparations, ‘Reds’, Marxism, Internationalism, Department Stores, the Dawes Plan, the Young Plan, the Wall Street Crash, Unemployment, etc.

    Enemies, enemies everywhere! Traitors, traitors only [insert party here] can punish! A swamp only [insert party her] can drain! A wall only [insert party here] can build! Innocent Dreamers only [insert party here] can save! Benefits only [insert party here] can provide!

    “it does not follow that R. Unz’s National Enquirer model is the ticket forward”

    LOL. You’re way ahead of me. I’m still pondering how, as many insist, Wilson and FDR started WW1 and WW2. Telekenisis?

    Best

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @Wally
    , @iffen
  374. annamaria says:
    @iffen

    The mighty dream of Eretz Israel and the US presence in Syria: https://www.rt.com/news/429255-isis-us-zones-syria/ “Islamic State still keeps its presence in Syria, but only in US-controlled areas…”

    The amazing results of the US ziocons’ design in Ukraine: https://www.thedailybeast.com/nazi-salutes-and-fascist-chic-put-ukraines-jews-on-edge “Just a few days before the 73d anniversary of the Allied victory over Nazism in World War II, Ukraine saw a march of ultra-nationalists who proclaimed that Odessa should be cleansed of Jews. At the rally, the head of the Right Sector in Odessa, Tatiana Soikina, said: “We are sure that we can put things in order, so Ukraine will belong to Ukrainians and not to Yids, not to oligarchs, glory to Ukraine!” https://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2014/03/08/introducing-victoria-nuland-mrs-robert-kagan-whore-for-the-british-empire/

  375. Crimson2 says:
    @anon111

    some kind of retarded Nostradamus are we?

    Nazis are on a hell of a losing streak and virtually everyone hates them. The current crop is busy fighting over who gets to have sex with whose stepmom. I don’t see much going for your team, bud.

  376. @Anonymous

    Felipe Fernández-Armesto, ‘Truth, A History and a Guide for the Perplexed’, New York 1997
    describes the development of the concept truth.
    In the good old days truth was what the big boss said.
    As
    Otto J. Maenchen-Helfen, ‘ The world of the Huns’, 1973 Berkeley
    shows, historians long ago were not at all interested in facts.
    Around 1870 or so the authority of the pope was so eroded that his infallibility was decided upon.
    With Galileo and Keppler etc. objective truth began, the experiment decides what is true.
    I wonder if jews, not all of them, of course, still think that true is what some leader says.
    I have no other explanation for that they continue to make dumb assertions, etc.
    One of the best is ‘There is a lot we know, for which we have no proof’.
    Gelauff, the top man of Dutch news, a jew, stated in some talk show that one can just accuse a politician of lies AFTER the politician has stated that he or she lied.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  377. Crimson2 says:
    @Hail

    Funny that you can read about other groups who were targeted by the Nazis on the Holocaust Memorial Museum’s website. Maybe you should pay closer attention.

    http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/mobile/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005149

  378. @Incitatus

    Wilson did not start WWI, he made the war possible that GB, France and the tsar concocted.
    Charles Callan Tansill, ‘Amerika geht in den Krieg’, Stuttgart 1939 (America goes to War, 1938)
    FDR:
    Harry Elmer Barnes, ed., ‘Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace, A critical examination of the foreign policy of Franklin Delano Roosevelt and its aftermath’, Caldwell, Idaho, 1953
    Charles A. Beard, ‘American Foreign Policy in the Making, 1932 – 1940, A study in responsibilities’, New Haven, 1946

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  379. Wally says:
    @FKA Max

    Kudos to Run Unz:

    Ron Unz: A Defender of Truth

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/06/paul-craig-roberts/ron-unz-a-defender-of-truth/

    Looks like the taboos imposed by Jews are going mainstream.

    Also see:
    Challenging the ridiculously fake ’6M Jews’ is now mainstream:

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/05/paul-craig-roberts/morality-truth-facts/

    get used to it.

    http://www.codoh.com

  380. Crimson2 says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Hitler never wanted war

    Yeah, he probably shouldn’t have declared war on the US then. He seems pretty dumb.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @jilles dykstra
  381. Wally says:
    @Momus

    Blundering, Amateur Night Momus steps on yet another landmine.

    See the desperate Zionist run ‘Holocau$t Controversies’ lies debunked here:

    ‘Holocau$t Controversies’ slapped silly about their Hungarian Jews lies

    http://juergen-graf.vho.org/articles/hungarian-holocaust-debate.html

    The “Extermination Camps” of “Aktion Reinhardt”
    An Analysis and Refutation of Factitious “Evidence,” Deceptions and Flawed Argumentation of the “Holocaust Controversies” Bloggers

    By Jürgen Graf , Carlo Mattogno , Thomas Kues: https://codoh.com/library/document/3052/?lang=en
    and:
    Questions for Holocau$t Controversies to answer/debate here. : https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11786
    and:
    Aktion Reinhardt Camps / Holocau$t Controversies Debunked Again! : https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8145

    Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the ‘holocaust’ storyline is the message.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Momus
  382. Wally says:
    @Incitatus

    You’re complete amateur, Incitatus.

    I have posted refutation after refutation of the fake and impossible ‘holocaust’ which you can only dodge & run from.

    Besides being a Zionist, what the hell is wrong with you?

    Jews tell us that murdered Jews went to huge mass graves and that to this day they know the locations of these alleged mass graves. So why don’t they excavate the alleged enormous ‘mass graves’, show the world the millions of Jew corpses, and prove their point?

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Momus
  383. Wally says:
    @Crimson2

    Don’t make us laugh.

    The US had been attacking German subs & shipping while supplying the USSR & Britain long before the US entry into WWII.

    Only liars demand censorship.

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here:

    http://codoh.com

    No name calling, level playing field debate here:

    http://forum.codoh.com

  384. Mike P says:
    @Johnny Rico

    D-day wan’t about defeating Germany; that was already a given. Instead, it was about preventing the Russians from conquering all of continental Europe.

  385. Incitatus says:
    @Kratoklastes

    About a third of German voters favored Nazis at their peak
    “That borders on disingenuous, and significantly understates the NSDAP’s ‘peak’ popularity – because it does not couch the ‘about a third’ (actually 38.66%, which is far closer to 40% than to ‘a third’) in context”

    A minority supported them, ne c’est pas? Parse the numbers as you please.

    “If I was a cynic, I might think you presented the statistic like that in order to try to give the (false) impression that the German government of the time was less popular than a randomly-selected run-of-the-mill Western democracy”

    Well, God forbid you’re a cynic!

    Tell us which other democracies had a party with 400,000 armed SA paramilitaries that daily attacked the opposition? Which let one party ban and imprison its adversaries? Which instituted a legally mandated greeting/salute honoring the leader of one party? Which extended legal immunity to one party’s assassins, thugs, and murders?

    Hindenburg pined for monarchy, noble landowners, and the military. He allowed Brüning to rule by emergency decree as regular Reichstag sessions all but ceased, appointed Hitler on faith (with others) that he could be controlled.

    Democratic pretense vanished 28 Feb 1933 with the Reichstag Fire Decree, issued by Hindenburg at Hitler’s request. Most citizen rights were suspended and the NSDAP began arresting political rivals (over ten thousand were imprisoned in Prussia alone within three weeks). Even then, the NSDAP won only 43% in the 5 Mar ’33 Reichstag General Election. Rival KPD was officially banned the following day.

    The Enabling Act (Gesetz zur Behebung der Not von Volk und Reich) was the final death warrant. With most opposition arrested or absent, it passed the Reichstag and Reichsrat and was signed by Hindenburg 24 Mar 1933. Hitler could enact laws without the Reichstag. The very same day Himmler established Dachau for those “who endanger state security”; rivals SPD and Reichsbanner (an organization dedicated to democracy) were banned and remaining leadership arrested.

    Factors unmentioned in your paean to the ‘democratically enfranchised’ NSDAP. What’s your word, Kratoklastes? “Disingenuous”?

    “Anyone who believes in democracy, faces this hurdle: the NSDAP was objectively the most-democratically-supported government in the history of full-franchise Western democracy.”

    Did the NSDAP believe in democracy? Listen to Göbbels:

    “Why do we [the NSDAP] want to join the Reichstag? To arm ourselves with democracy’s weapons. If democracy is foolish enough to give us free railway passes and salaries, that is its problem. It does not concern us. Any way of bringing about the revolution is fine with us.”

    -Joseph Göbbels Der Angriff 30 Apr 1928

    Strasser was even more candid:

    “Everything which is detrimental to the existing order of things has our [NSDAP] support…because we want catastrophe…everything which hastens the beginning of catastrophe in the present system…every strike, every governmental crisis, every erosion of state power, every weakening of the System…is good, very good for us…and it will always and constantly be our endeavor to strengthen such difficulties…in order to expedite the death of this system.”

    - Gregor Strasser, Stachura ‘Gregor Strasser and the Rise of Nazism, p.76, Childers ’The Third Reich’ p.115

    Strange. Doesn’t sound as if the NSDAP cared for ‘democracy’. Or played by the same rules as other parties.

    Cynics might think you presented statistics “to give the (false) impression” that they did. Rather like praising the Mafia as a charity that takes care its own. Or regularizing the most malignant cancer by portraying it as a headache.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @jilles dykstra
  386. @Crimson2

    Hitler knew quite well that after Pearl Harbour FDR would declare war on Germany.
    Since the end of 1939 FDR already was at war with Germany in the Atlantic, the USA fleet escorting convoys to Britain.
    Hitler decided to declare war on the USA, thought it better for the German people.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  387. utu says:
    @iffen

    National Enquirer model is the ticket forward

    Maybe it could have been? But then they got the anthrax letter.

  388. Smiddy says:

    Hitler was a charlatan, spawn of the red shield. Greg Hallett and Henry Makow understand this. And David Irving is on record that Mein Kampf was written via ghost.

    Understanding this is basically a punch in the gut equivalent to realizing how the greatest disease epidemic of WW2 has been entirely propagandized, omitted from the “history” books.

  389. “England will get ten million agents for her greatness and influence.” – Theodor Herzl

    >> England.

    • It was the Bank of England who financed Hitler with £6M worth of gold, six months before the war.

    • It was Bulwer-Lytton who spread the literature in Germany that formed the basis of the Nazi cult.

    • It was Houston Chamberlain who indoctrinated the Nazis to hate and kill Jews. Joseph Goebbels called him the “visionary, pathbreaker of Nazism”.

    • It was Neville Chamberlain who prevented Hitler’s generals from overtaking him when he was reading to invade Czechoslovakia.

    I haven’t read anything from David Irving. Some say he is not a historian and others that he is controlled opposition. Unless he exposes the role British deep state played in destroying and humiliating Germany in WW2 to prevent the emancipation of Jews (and their assimilation with non-Jews), I would agree with both aforementioned counts.

    WW2’s objectives were:

    • to have Germany and Russia (both competitors to Britain) fight bloody war to weaken/destroy them.

    • create the necessary hostile environment against the Jews so they migrate to Palestine.

    • control the USA via Israel.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  390. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @iffen

    Maybe I will, but there is more to life than pondering the JQ from the pov of Nazis.

    There’s more to life than a lot of stuff. Fulminating about work one hasn’t read is pretty high up there, at least for me.

    That said, it annoys me that this guy’s life was ruined (aside from the libel case, which was his fault) for writing things some people find irritating.

  391. Wally says:
    @Incitatus

    Incitatus once again presents alleged English ‘translations’ of alleged German documents that he cannot produce the original, real German documents to confirm the English ‘translations’.

    Anyone can key in English text and make absurd claims about it.

    ex.:

    “I, Incitatus am a pedophile, and you should be too.”

    source: Incitatus Diary, 2018

  392. @Unzerker

    Before the war, the Dutch, particularly the upper classes, had a very positive attitude towards Germany. Afterwards, and for the following fifty years, it was blind hatred.
    Only now does the youngest generation think it unobjectionable to holiday there. As recently as ten years ago, to do so was considered akin to treason. I know many a Dutchman who would fill his car with both petrol and provisions and then drive uninterruptedly through Germany to Austria or Switzerland for his annual holiday.
    You are right – let’s not justify the inexcusable just because we are on to equally inexcusable behaviour on the other side.
    Everybody knows about German frightfulness; our job is to enlighten that “everybody” about the equally frightful behaviour of the other side.

  393. Having been fortunate enough to have all of Mr Irving’s works I can safely say that none of them contains anything remotely anti-Semitic. All this brouhaha is just a lot of rubbish and a distraction brought to you by the usual (((suspects))).

    After trading emails with him over the years I once asked him about Reinhard Heydrich. His response was telling: “He’s the n***er in the woodpile”. In other words, a conundrum, in relation to others that served in the German high command.

  394. @Hiram of Tyre

    I read no such thing in
    Houston Stewart Chamberlain, ‘Die Grundlagen des Neunzehnten Jahrhunderts’, 1898- 1907, München

    • Replies: @Hiram of Tyre
  395. @Incitatus

    In 1936 the UN of the time organised a referendum in the Saar.
    The choice was to remain under UN government, join France, or join Germany.
    90% voted for joining Germany.
    This was three years after Hitler came to power.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  396. @Wally

    Wow. Just, wow.

    • Replies: @Wally
  397. Incitatus says:
    @Wally

    “Anyone can key in English text [of Göbbels and Gregor Strasser] and make absurd claims about it.”

    I provided quotes, sources, and made no claims (the quotes speak for themselves). Your response:

    “Anyone can key in English text and make absurd claims about it
    “I, Incitatus am a pedophile, and you should be too.”
    source: Incitatus Diary, 2018

    Well done, Wally!

    Traitors, traitors everywhere!

    You really have nothing left to offer, do you? Bogus codoh hate archives empty?

    Hope your employers understand.

    Best to Ms. Wally.

  398. @jilles dykstra

    What don’t you read in that book?

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  399. Incitatus says:
    @jilles dykstra

    “Hitler knew quite well that after Pearl Harbour FDR would declare war on Germany”

    Please provide proof of your assertion.

    “Hitler decided to declare war on the USA, thought it better for the German people.”

    Was he right?

    • Replies: @Wally
  400. Incitatus says:
    @jilles dykstra

    “In 1936 the UN of the time organised a referendum in the Saar…90% voted for joining Germany”

    Before or after Hitler (in violation of treaties Germany signed) marched into the Saar?

  401. Incitatus says:
    @jilles dykstra

    “Wilson did not start WWI, he made the war possible that GB, France and the tsar concocted.”

    Please explain exactly how Wilson made “possible” WW1. Specific acts/policy please.

    Please document the “war GB, France and the tsar concocted”.

    Wasn’t it Germany and Austria-Hungary that spurned mediation, declared war, and launched invasions? How did “GB, France and the tsar’ launch war? Did we miss something (possible)? Tell us what we missed.

    Your source Harry Elmer Barnes was paid by Germany to sell WW1 innocence. He met with Wilhelm II in 1926. Willie told him Jews and Freemasons were responsible for the late war. Harry tried to get him to blame the French and Allies (Willie didn’t: he agreed with Ludendorff Jews and Freemasons were the best scapegoats).

    Please explain why Harry didn’t ask about Willie’s famous ‘blank check’ (issued 5 Jul 1914 to Austria-Hungary Ambassador Count László Szögyén-Marich, telling the latter he “would be saddened if advantage was not taken of such a favorable juncture as the present one” for war and Germany would back – without reservation – Austria-Hungary in an attack on Serbia.

    Did Harry omit it because it incriminates Willie and undercuts his German paymasters?

    Gee, whiz! Give us a clue, jilles!

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  402. Alan Newton says: • Website

    Mr. Unz: Much thanks for having the integrity and courage to highlight the works of David Irving, a man of immense integrity whom I have come to admire and greatly appreciate, and have met personally. His historic works are unprecedented in the annals of WW2 history. Many are debating and haranguing over the book Hitler’s War, which I have read. But few have the temerity to read and/or discuss that book’s counterpart, Churchill’s War, Part 1 and 2 (and 3 is in the works). I have read The War Between the Generals, a most intriguing look at the bickering and political posturing of the higher echelon parasites of the Allied Command. I have also read Rommel-The Trail of the Fox, his wonderful work about the career of Irwin Rommel. And his most ‘blatant’ work, Apocalypse 1945: The Destruction of Dresden will make the most hard hearted war-monger weep. Irving is an international hero; despised by the Ashkenazi Kazar parasites, but loved by those that see those parasites for what they truly are. Irving is the most professional and accurate historian of the jew war of economic oppression, waged by the international banking cabal against the European theatre. He has suffered horribly at the hands of the gobal banking cabalists, that have so much to lose from you and I knowing the truth of their shenanigans. I hope you will continue to support and promote his marvelous talent.
    Sincerely,
    Alan Newton, Longs, SC, USA

  403. annamaria says:

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/06/08/israels-attack-on-the-uss-liberty-a-half-century-later-still-no-justice/

    “Israel’s Attack on the USS Liberty: A Half Century Later, Still No Justice,” by JEFFREY ST. CLAIR

    • Replies: @Momus
    , @James Brown
  404. iffen says:
    @Incitatus

    The Holocaust, with all the other death and murder, is important. It wasn’t the central reason for NSDAP or WW2.

    True enough, but as you referenced earlier, it is rather bizarre that Germany took this little detour before continuing on the road to social democracy. I have wondered if there was something different that could provide some explanation: late to nation state development vis-à-vis other European states, great power status stymied? I have discarded the idea that there was “something” wrong with Germans, rather I think, “But for the Grace of God go many nations.”

    H. certainly knew, and stated, that the Final Solution could only be accomplished in the fog of an all-out war. Did this impel him in that direction? He was getting everything that he wanted by bullying and deceit. He could have played those cards for many more years and as his military strength built those cards would have been even more effective.

    But the common narrative prevails.

    How many Jews did the UK and the US save via allowed immigration? Millions, right?

    • Replies: @notanon
    , @Incitatus
  405. Wally says:
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    An absolute must:

    See fraudulent ‘professor’ and ranting Zionist Andrew Mathis skewered here by Ms. Lee:

    http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/fci/andysjew.html

    and see:
    CODOH Forum routs discredited Zionist & fraudulent ‘professor’ Andrew Mathis:

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4451&p=72138&hilit=mathis+thames+mulegino#p72138

    The more they talk the worse it becomes for their fake ’6,000,000′ scam.
    http://www.codoh.com

  406. Wally says:
    @Incitatus

    There was no choice. The US had already attacked German subs & shipping and was supplying Britain and the USSR.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  407. Sam Shama says:
    @Wally

    This is beyond free speech.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  408. Momus says:
    @Wally

    Benthic Wally, the falsified evidence monger, lyin’ denier whose absurd reliance on a Nazi proponents site means negative credibility

    Mate, you are a holocaust history defenders secret weapon.

    • Replies: @Wally
  409. Momus says:
    @annamaria

    Unfortunate friendly fire incident in the fog of conflict. History is littered with worse. Get over it

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @bj
  410. Momus says:
    @Wally

    Benthic Wally.
    Most of the Jewish concentration/extermination camp holocaust victims remains where incinerated immediately in crematoria, or on griddles and the remaining bones pulverised with mallets by Jewish slaves and spread on fields, gravel camp roads, buried or dumped in rivers. Ditto treatment for disinterred bodies.

    The Nazis, as they realised they were losing probably spent more effort disposing of evidence than creating it so convenient mass graves with intact skeletons are rare.

    The contested number of Jewish Nazi victims is irrelevant, except as a convenient lifting handle.

    Sentient beings are in no doubt that Hitler’s abominable Nazis created the ideological foundation and practical mechanisms to attempt to exterminate European Jews.

    • Replies: @Wally
  411. @joe webb

    thanks. not many seem to care. Having met Irving, and then my story and others…about his sexual macro aggressions…don’t seem to mean much to folks here.

    My general sense is that he was capable of mass killing. Arrogant and obsessed.

    Well, as you said in your original post, Irving is a Nazi…and quite a few regulars here have Nazi sympathies and endlessly signal their Reich cred by showcasing their monomaniacal tin-foil hat level obsession with Jews. As far as they are concerned Uncle Irv is one of them, a kindred spirit, so why would they have a problem with his questionable social skills?

    That said, the comment to his buddy about the attractive woman (“how would you like to get a piece of this”) is bog standard male banter and in no way implies violence. Saying it within earshot of the woman being referred to, however, is a great way to earn instant pariah status and, in today’s #metoo environment, seriously damage one’s reputation and social standing. Only a drunk or an idiot would risk their status in this way.

  412. Without imports from the USA GB and France could never have waged war.
    Wilson was not neutral, he accepted that that the warring nations France and GB could buy anything in the USA on credit, but that Germany could not, because of the British blockade.
    Concocted, Trotski in 1917 found the secret agreements between GB, France and the tsar to partition three empires between them: the German, the Habsburg and the Ottoman.
    Germany knew quite well what had been concocted, it attacked France to prevent a two front war.
    Wilson’s Fourteen Points with self determination, aimed at breaking up the Habsburgh empire.
    USA military intervention in 1917, GB would have had to capitulate in November 1917, in that case the USA credits would never have been paid, was the idea.
    Germany had to pay.
    I tried to keep it as short as possible.
    Please read Tansill.

  413. @Hiram of Tyre

    It was Houston Chamberlain who indoctrinated the Nazis to hate and kill Jews.

    • Replies: @Hiram of Tyre
  414. @Mulegino1

    ???????? We are regularly ‘reminded’ through what can only be called gross exaggerations of the tens of millions of innocents coldly murdered by the evil commies -

  415. Anonymous[150] • Disclaimer says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Indeed, the advancement of science in the West is a direct consequence of the rejection of the idea that powerful men and institutions are the arbiters of truth. This seems natural today but it was a huge revolution in human thinking. However it’s an unnatural way of thinking. People are by nature deferential to power and tradition.

  416. ” People are by nature deferential to power and tradition.”
    Should be
    ” Most people are by deferential to power and tradition. ”
    However, those that are and were not are/ were the sources of progress.
    As Hoyle writes in his autobiography, also in science dissidents bring new ideas.
    The lack of progress in science Hoyle, and also Penrose, attribute to the herd mentality among scientists, worldwide nowadays.
    Kennan writes the same, his speeches to scholars after he made the USA realise what Stalin was.
    For a very very long time, since the mid thirties, Kennan was not listened to.
    Fred Hoyle, ‘Home Is Where the Wind Blows, Chapters from a cosmologist’s life’, Mill Valley 1994
    Roger Penrose, ‘The Road to Reality, A Complete Guide to the Laws of the Universe’, London, 2004
    George F. Kennan, ´Memoirs 1925 – 1950’, New York 1967, 1972
    I fear that this herd mentality brought us the CO2 madness, the most expensive experiment in human history.
    Maybe with the exception of the Mayas, they sacrificed their children against drought, with no effect.

    .

  417. @Lincoln Blockface Squarebeard III

    Of course, the truth about WWII makes anyone a nazi, metoo.

  418. DFH says:
    @Lincoln Blockface Squarebeard III

    quite a few regulars here have Nazi sympathies and endlessly signal their Reich cred by showcasing their monomaniacal tin-foil hat level obsession with Jews

    Because no-one in history apart from the Nazis has ever had problems with Jews and their actions

    • Replies: @Momus
  419. notanon says:
    @iffen

    it is rather bizarre that Germany took this little detour before continuing on the road to social democracy

    it’s not bizarre at all if you recognize the context

    1) extreme economic distress (cyclical, caused by the banking mafia’s boom-bust cycle)

    2) Bolshevik revolution followed by the murder of millions in concentration camps in Russia

    (with Jews getting blamed cos they were so prominent in both)

    so the synthesis of this into a combined anti-banker and anti-bolshevik ideology i.e. “national socialism” was extremely likely and the conflict between some form of Fascism and social democracy was a close run thing in all western nations with (i’d guess) the tipping point in Germany being (?) the aftermath of WWI being worse there, being closer to the Soviet Union (and maybe that a lot of “Kulaks” were German Mennonites).

    i’d say it’s the deliberate lack of attention to what was happening in Russia at the same time that clouds this issue: Germany was one border away from the gulags whereas Britain, France etc were further away.

    • Replies: @Anon
  420. annamaria says:
    @Sam Shama

    This seems “is beyond free speech” as well: ttps://twitter.com/Jonathan_K_Cook/status/1004797863002550272/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rt.com%2Fuk%2F429134-guardian-cartoonist-netanyahu-palestinian-israel%2F

    Again, what was the lesson of Holocaust, Mr. Sam Shama?

  421. annamaria says:
    @Momus

    Then get over the criticism of the holocaust biz, Ms. Momus.
    Your bloody dream of Eretz Israel has cost some 4 million deaths to your neighbors: http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/unworthy-victims-western-wars-have-killed-four-million-muslims-1990-39149394
    Hundreds of thousands of children became victims of Oded Yinon plan. There is no way to decouple the holocaust museums from the ongoing slaughter in Syria and Libya, which has been designed and pushed by the cabal of ziocons in a willing company of the mega profiteers of MIC.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfHBsnJW4AAnEj9.jpg:large

  422. Wally says:
    @Momus

    Yep, that’s why you dodge & run from my posts.
    You simply cannot refute them. LOL

    Now try this one:
    ‘the only photo documentation of extermination process, as usual shows nothing at all”
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9608“That is the their best shot at documenting the fake & laughable ‘extermination’ process LOL

    also recommended:
    For a thorough demolition of the alleged Auschwitz gas chambers & alleged Auschwitz homicidal gassing process see analysis at:

    http://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=model&t=10798&sf=msgonly

    http://www.codoh.com

  423. annamaria says:
    @Lincoln Blockface Squarebeard III

    Do you recognize some familiar names? http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v14/v14n1p-4_Weber.html
    “The Jewish Role in the Bolshevik Revolution and Russia’s Early Soviet Regime. Assessing the Grim Legacy of Soviet Communism,” by Mark Weber
    Do you know that Mrs. Nuland-Kagan is married into a powerful Kagans clan of ziocons? https://www.salon.com/2014/02/25/is_the_us_backing_neo_nazis_in_ukraine_partner/ https://www.rt.com/viral/375225-victoria-nuland-state-sendoff/
    The Kagans have been highly instrumental in the revival of neo-Nazism in Ukraine. They have demonstrated their “Nazi sympathies” by their well-documented deeds. And yet the Lobby and ADL and all 52 main Jewish-American organization have been blind and deaf to the Jewish involvement in the Nazi (banderite) renaissance.
    Look first at your tribe before making the sanctimonious “anti-Nazi” speeches on the Unz forum: https://politicalfilm.wordpress.com/2014/03/11/nuland-poses-with-ukraine-nazi/
    The ziocons’ triumph in Ukraine: http://www.ibtimes.com/svoboda-rising-spectre-neo-nazism-ukraine-974110

  424. bj says:
    @Momus

    Tens of millions of people died in the war years.

    Massacres, combat operations, typhus, starvation, terror bombing!

    What makes a few million Jews so special?

    • Replies: @Harbinger
    , @Momus
  425. Wally says:
    @Momus

    (Everyone scroll down to see Momus slapped silly)

    Once again you are denying what your Jew claims about existing remains. They claim they still exist to thes day in immense quantities in known & marked sites. Oops
    Beside cremation does not eliminate human remains. And the claim is the remains were reburied in know site as well.
    IOW you’re screwed with your stupid & laughable bone grinder alibis. LOL

    [MORE]

    “The mass graves were opened and the corpses were taken out, to be consumed by the flames of huge pyres (the ‘roasts’). The bones were crushed and, together with the ashes, WERE REBURIED IN THE SAME GRAVES.”
    - Israel Gutman (ed.), Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, 4 vols., Macmillan, New York 1990, vol. 4, p. 1481-87

    historian’ Raul Hilberg wrote in his three-volume book entitled “The Destruction of the European Jews” that there were 700,000 – 900,000 bodies buried at Treblinka

    Alleged location of Treblinka remains according to Treblinka officials

    photo from ‘Surviving Treblinka’, by Samuel Willenberg.

    It is captioned: “crane lifting corpses destined for cremation”
    Does anyone see any “corpses”?LOL

    Sobibor ‘monument’ supposedly over the remains of 250,000 Jew, actual remains of the alleged 250,ooo cannot be shown.

    Alleged “ash pond” for 1,100,000 Jew remains at on sign at Auschwitz, no actual remains can be shown, nor DNA verified

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @Momus
  426. Harbinger says:
    @bj

    Quite!

    Well over a 100 million people died in WW2 and even if we did take the 6million (which is a colossal lie) of Jewish deaths, it shades in comparison to non Jewish deaths. More so, the figure is also laughable as the UK population, for example has grown, since WW2 up until today by about the same number as Jews and yet, there were almost ten times the number of Britons, compared to Jews.

    https://www.secondworldwarhistory.com/world-war-2-statistics.asp

    The reason WHY the deaths of Jews overshadows all non Jewish deaths is because they’re Jews, the ‘supposed’ God’s chosen, itself a lie. The Jews ARE NOT Israelites, far from it. They are of the line of Esau, not Jacob, who left the family, took two Canaanite women for wives and moved to Idumea. He was the father of the Edomites – thus the Jews are Edomites. Israel is promised to the line of Israel, not to the line of Esau.

    https://isthefathercallingyoutohisson.wordpress.com/were-abraham-isaac-and-jacob-jews-part-1-the-beginning/

    As Christ stated of the Jews in John 8:44: “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”

    Judaism, by definition, is deceit. They have usurped the House of Israel and falsely call themselves of it. Jesus will not come to save the Jews, as we are continually lied about. He comes to save the house of Israel. Hell is where the Jews will end up for their sins against God’s children, where they will be united with their father.

    • Replies: @Anon
  427. Momus says:
    @DFH

    Because no-one in history apart from the Nazis has ever had problems with Jews and their actions

    In the country where I live Jews are highly regarded but hardly mentioned for their religion.
    The businesses of Jews employ tens of thousands.

    Their achievements in medicine, hard science, law, politics, arts and entertainment, engineering, the military are disproportionate to their numbers by an order of magnitude.

    Any country that loses it’s Jews will be the poorer.

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @Zumbuddi
    , @Zumbuddi
  428. @Wally

    Poliakov writes that no remains can be found because special groups with special fluids dug up the corpses, and destroyed them completely.
    P bases het writing on Neurenberg testimony.
    Léon Poliakov, ‘Bréviaire de la Haine, Le IIIe Reich et les Juifs’, 1951, 1974, Paris
    Why do you bother to discuss with Momus ?
    You really think he will change his ideas, if he has them ?
    Ward Churchill, ‘A Little Matter of Genocide, Holocaust and Denial in the Americas, 1492 to the Present’, San Francisco 1997
    in a footnote specifies the names of, 17 or 24, am not sure, jewish historians still busy with the holocaust.
    Holocaust indoctrination, almost daily:

    https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/2150039/kindertransporten-naar-sobibor-herdacht

    ‘gassed immediately after arrival’.

    • Replies: @Anon
  429. Momus says:
    @Wally

    Benthick Wally

    No one can see corpses, but I’ve seen you post that old photo many times. It is obviously misattributed, or the curator mixed up his translation; or, as likely; you are bullshitting.

    What is obvious is that it is very positive piece for the Holocaust historians. It shows how unfathomably stupid and desperate the liar/deniers are. This is supposed to be serious scholarship and you show an excavator working and claim it as evidence, nay proof that no corpses were buried so no Holocaust. It proves, or demonstrates nothing except your idiocy or perhaps your mental health issues.

    It is captioned: “crane lifting corpses destined for cremation”
    Does anyone see any “corpses”?LOL

  430. DFH says:
    @Momus

    Tens of thousands employed vs. the destruction of your country through Communism, feminism, ‘anti-racism’, pornography and mass immigration. Who could choose between them?

    Whatever their supposed achievments, they can do them in their own country.

    • Replies: @Momus
  431. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @TimWebb

    I think you have got cause and effect reversed. Churchill was already agitating about Hitler’s and the Nazi’s anti-Semitism *before* Hitler became Chancellor and favoured helping Jewish refugees so it is hardly surprising that Jewish money supported him. He had opposed restrictions on Jewish immigration as early as 1904 and in 1908 had expressly supported Zionism. See e.g.

    http://www.aei.org/publication/was-churchill-a-zionist/

    • Replies: @DFH
  432. @annamaria

    Why should Russian propaganda about neo-Nazis in Ukraine be taken as true when the key to any Nazi affiliations in Ukraine has been loathing of Russian oppression? It is my understanding that the Ukrainian PM is Jewish (and Yulia Timoshenko from what I have read on UR). That is consistent with a rather different connotation for Nazism than you imply.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  433. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Why were Jewish children, their mothers and old people selectively deported from Holland and other countries by the Germans?

    • Replies: @Harbinger
  434. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Harbinger

    Can you not see at least three reasons for treating the Holocaust as a quite exceptional crime:

    1. It was intended as genocide;

    2. It in fact killed a far bigger proportion of the Ashkenazi population than of any other group;

    3. It was done by the Germans, part of our advanced Western Civilisation (and Christendom some would say) and once amongst the most admired contributors to is latest progress.

    • Replies: @Zumbuddi
    , @Harbinger
  435. DFH says:
    @Anon

    Nevertheless his government continued restricting Jewish emigration to Palestine, and the tens of thousands of illegal immigrants who were caught were interned in Cyprus.

  436. Sam Shama says:
    @Incitatus

    Hi Incitatus,
    I love reading this essay of Chesterton’s whenever the subject of Prussian victimhood is strenuously pushed. It is his 1915 piece entitled The Appetite of Tyranny [including letters to an old Garibaldian] . In it, he writes at the very start:

    Upon the immediate logical and legal origin of the English interest there can be no rational debate. There are some things so simple that one can almost prove them with plans and diagrams, as in Euclid. One could make a kind of comic calendar of what would have happened to the English diplomatist if he had been silenced every time by Prussian diplomacy. Suppose we arrange it in the form of a kind of diary.

    July 24. Germany invades Belgium.
    July 25. England declares war.
    July 26. Germany promises not to annex Belgium.
    July 27. England withdraws from the war.
    July 28. Germany annexes Belgium. England declares war.
    July 29. Germany promises not to annex France. England withdraws from the war.
    July 30. Germany annexes France. England declares war.
    July 31. Germany promises not to annex England.
    Aug. 1. England withdraws from the war. Germany invades England…

    How long is anybody expected to go with that sort of game, or keep peace at that illimitable price? How long must we pursue a road in which promises are all fetishes in front of us and all fragments behind us? No: upon the cold facts of the final negotiations, as told by any of the diplomatists in any of the documents, there is no doubt about the story. And no doubt about the villain of the story.

    He goes on in his inimitable manner to make a remark or two about the German Emperor’s Teutonic ability to self-contradict. The conclusion the essay by brings the central character of the Prussian into sharp relief:

    In these slight notes I have suggested the principal strong points of the Prussian character. A failure in honour which almost amounts to a failure in memory: an egomania that is honestly blind to the fact that the other party is an ego; and, above all, an actual itch for tyranny and interference, the devil which everywhere torments the idle and the proud. To these must be added a certain mental shapelessness which can expand or contract without reference to reason or record; a potential infinity of excuses. If the English had been on the German side, the German professors would have noted what irresistible energies had evolved the Teutons.

    As the English are on the other side, the German professors will say that these Teutons were not sufficiently evolved. Or they will say that they were just sufficiently evolved to show that they were not Teutons. Probably they will say both. But the truth is that all that they call evolution should rather be called evasion. They tell us they are opening windows of enlightenment and doors of progress. The truth is that they are breaking up the whole house of the human intellect, that they may abscond in any direction. There is an ominous and almost monstrous parallel between the position of their over-rated philosophers and of their comparatively under-rated soldiers. For what their professors call roads of progress are really routes of escape.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  437. Harbinger says:
    @Anon

    Why were Jews in such high positions in Hitler’s armed forces and SS?

    https://www.revisionisthistory.org/jewishnazi.html

    http://inconvenienthistory.com/1/3/3102

    https://politicalnigeria.wordpress.com/2016/11/23/jewish-senior-officers-in-hitlers-army/

    As for your question:

    “Why were Jewish children, their mothers and old people selectively deported from Holland and other countries by the Germans?”

    Understand that the overwhelming majority of Jews who were not nationalists in their lands were communists. Hitler never wanted the same genocide that happened under Jews in Russia to permeate into Europe. Hence, this was why there was an expulsion order, not an extermination order of Jews. And Jewish children were deported because Jewish children, believe it or not, grow older and make Jewish babies. You do not allow enemies to stay within your lands, for they will grow and eventually seek rule. This is common sense and has been done throughout history. Remember also that before WW2 the Jews had been evicted for dozens of lands over a hundred times. This is ‘conveniently’ forgotten when persecuting Germany for doing no different.

    Jews simply won’t accept the simple fact that THEY ARE NOT WANTED!

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Wizard of Oz
  438. Zumbuddi says:
    @Anon

    1. Prove “intent,” Put the documentary evidence on the table, validate them,
    70 years on, that has not been done.

    2. Definitively NOT a “fact” .

    3, Allies — esp. Judeo-Christian USA and UK, with participation of formerly Christian, then -Judeo-Bolshevik Russia, instrumentslized the killing of Jews and also of millions of Christians in Poland, Germany, etc.

    4, Most important of all, “Jewry”- as defined by Israel Shamir, provoked, started, and was/is primary beneficiary & profiteer from war s.

    • Replies: @Anon
  439. Harbinger says:
    @Anon

    “Can you not see at least three reasons for treating the Holocaust as a quite exceptional crime:”

    There was no holocaust. There were Jews killed in WW2 but no ‘whole burnt offerings’ to define its meaning as implied. The victors write history and the victors were Jews. Jews are exceptionally good a deceit, more so it is accepted as correct behaviour when discussing matter with goyim. Here in the UK, Jews were forbidden to serve in courts, as witnesses, for Talmudic doctrine on lying to the goyim was perfectly acceptable.

    “It was intended as genocide”

    No extermination order was given. Jewish death tolls continue to drop to laughably low levels, proving history to be the lie that it is, well especially regarding Jews.

    “It in fact killed a far bigger proportion of the Ashkenazi population than of any other group”

    No it didn’t. When one looks at world almanacs one can see that even if 6million Jews had been killed in WW2, their birthrate has been extraordinarily high. The growth of the Ashkenazi population from the end of WW2 has been on a par with the growth of people, here in my country of the UK. The only problem is that if we are to take the lie that 6million Jews died in WW2 and the population dropped to around 9million, then the Jewish population has grown the same as UK indigenous, who number 5 times more. Total Jewish deaths probably numbered between 400,000 to 1million. Of those who perished, the overwhelming number of those were communist subversives and thus enemies not only of the German people but humanity (all one has to do is look at Russia’s genocide by these people) along with the elderly.

    “It was done by the Germans, part of our advanced Western Civilisation (and Christendom some would say) and once amongst the most admired contributors to is latest progress.”

    And this is where we have to start asking questions. An incredibly civilized and culturally advanced people, instantly turned to demons, overnight? And the source from Jews who are renowned deceivers booted out of 84 lands over a 100 times? Who am I to believe? Who, with the slightest modicum of common sense (Jew excluded) is going to believe this nonsense? Let us look at WW1? One day the Jews are supporting the Germans and their war against Britain and the next, courtesy of the word from ‘daddy’ Rothschild they have changed their tune and the papers that formerly praised them are telling society that Germans are raping women, murdering and eating babies? Really, it’s rather pathetic to say the least. You are asking me to forego my sanity and critical thinking skills, to believe the insane ramblings of deceitful Jews, hell bent on human sacrifice and creation of their own nation.

    There were holocausts in WW2, but not of Jews. Instead INVOLVING Jews – Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden to name a few, where people WERE burned alive, as offerings to the god of the Jews, one of their many biblical deities they worship from the past, possibly Baal, Moloch, Beelzebub and/or others.

    • Replies: @Anon
  440. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Zumbuddi

    You have mistaken the point of my comment which was to reply to someone who couldn’t see why the Holocaust was such a big deal rather than his belief about the facts and figures.

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @annamaria
  441. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Harbinger

    Why did the old people have to be deported? You didn’t even try and answer that.

    And, even granted your approval of deporting Jews so there will eventually be no more Jews in the country

    1. Why was it done in the difficult and dangerous conditions of wartime when it used scarce resources unless it was as part of a final solution which eliminated the need to feed and house them?

    2. Why did it take place in France, Belgium and Holland amongst other countries not planned to be depopulated and/or incorporated into the Reich?

    • Replies: @Harbinger
  442. Momus says:
    @DFH

    Whatever their supposed achievments, they can do them in their own country

    They are as well.

    They have have gone from the socialist Kibbutz system to probably the worlds most dynamic entrepreneurial capitalists.

    Similar GDP to Iran and Egypt, both with 10 times the population and territory

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @FKA Max
  443. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Harbinger

    A mildly interesting psychological phenomenon. Thank you.

  444. Momus says:
    @bj

    What makes a few million Jews so special?

    The Holocaust does.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  445. Zumbuddi says:
    @Momus

    C”Any country that loses its Jews will be the poorer.”

    Jews have been in Persia longer than anywhere else in the world.
    Over those centuries and millenia, how has Iran benefited because of its Jews?

    The largest population of Jews lived in Poland for hundreds of years. But when Democratic governance and industrialization made Britain and Germany prosperous, Poland had neither the mindset nor the institutions to follow the lead of industrialization.
    Instead, Jews from Poland/Russia poured into Germany Austria England to exploit the institutions and wealth created by the hard work & brain-power of those native populations.

    Jews flocked to universities established by Christians/Catholics in Italy, France, Germany bit never established their own u til recent times.

    You’ve got the cart before the horse, the beneficiary confused with the donor.

    • Replies: @Momus
  446. Harbinger says:
    @Anon

    All your questions have been answered. I do not need to again.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Anonymous
  447. annamaria says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “…Russian propaganda about neo-Nazis in Ukraine”
    – Poor WoO, still clatches to the idea of the “most moral” ziocons.

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/180176

    “Neo-Nazis Honor Ukrainian SS on Holocaust Memorial Day. March for the Waffen, 14th volunteer division of the SS, irks local authorities. Is Neo-Nazism in Ukraine becoming endemic?” (PS: the linked article was published by Israel National News)

    https://www.alternet.org/world/how-israel-lobby-protected-ukrainian-neo-nazis “How the Israel Lobby Protected Ukrainian Neo-Nazis,” by Max Blumenthal
    “Rep. John Conyers wanted to block U.S. funding to neo-Nazis in Ukraine. But the ADL and Simon Wiesenthal Center refused to help. Despite their stated mission to combat anti-Semitism and violent extremism, the ADL and Wiesenthal Center refused to support Jeffries and Conyers’ proposal.” (PS: the article was published by AlterNet, the US publisher)

    http://www.cufi.org.uk/news/ukraine-new-report-shows-rise-in-antisemitism/ “Ukraine: New report shows rise in antisemitism.” (Published by Christian United For Israel, the UK).
    “An annual report on anti-Semitism has said that for the second consecutive year Ukraine had more anti-Semitic incidents than any other country from the former Soviet Union. The report was published by Israel’s Ministry for Diaspora Affairs under Education Minister Naftali Bennett….”

    The US ziocons did initiate a revival of neo-nazism in Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  448. @Harbinger

    There is one thing that was worth reading – your third link though I guess you could find a better one for the work of Bryan Mark Rigg on Hitler’s “Jewish” soldiers. Actually his “Jews” were mostly not Jews except according to Nazi definitions. But it is a fascinating picture of the complexity of real life events. Hitler it seems didn’t give his sometimes false certificates of Aryan descent without looking at their photographs! I don’t see what comfort you can get from reading it because he makes clear that some of them lost the rest of their families in Auschwicz and one of them had to visit his father in Sachsenhausen.

    • Replies: @Harbinger
  449. annamaria says:
    @Anon

    The Bolshevik revolution in Russia was even a larger “deal,” yet the only comprehensive documentary of the horrors of the revolution, “To Hundred Years Together,” by Solzhenitsyn (a Nobel Prize Laureate in Literature) has been sequestered by ALL US and UK publishing houses. — All because the documentary presented the fact-based history of Jews in Russia.
    Your tribe has already extracted the huge amounts of resources from other nations (to compensate the “incomparable suffering and victimhood). What has been the Jewry compensation for Russian suffering? — the revival (highly-insulting) of neo-Nazism in Ukraine? https://www.alternet.org/world/how-israel-lobby-protected-ukrainian-neo-nazis
    “If passed, Conyers’ amendment would have explicitly barred those found to have offered “praise or glorification of Nazism or its collaborators, including through the use of white supremacist, neo-Nazi, or other similar symbols” from receiving any form of support from the US Department of Defense.
    The amendment was presented by congressional staffers to lobbyists from Anti-Defamation League (ADL) and the Simon Wiesenthal Center, two of the country’s largest established Jewish pressure groups. Despite their stated mission to combat anti-Semitism and violent extremism, the ADL and Wiesenthal Center refused to support Jeffries and Conyers’ proposal.
    … staffers from the ADL’s Washington office and the Simon Wiesenthal Center rejected the amendment on the grounds that right-wing Ukrainian parties like Svoboda with documented records of racist extremism had “moderated their rhetoric.” An ADL lobbyist insisted that “the focus should be on Russia…”
    https://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2018/02/05/max-blumenthal-us-is-arming-neo-nazis-in-ukraine/ “Max Blumenthal reports that the US has provided military assistance to the Azov Battalion, known as a bastion of neo-Nazism within the Ukrainian armed forces. He also discusses US and Israeli ties to the far-right government in Poland, where neo-Nazism is on the rise.”

    You are trying to attract the readers’ attention to the victims of WWII — but on strictly ethnic terms. Well, your tribe has been behaving badly both in the Middle East (by killing out the millions of natives in the name of Eretz Israel) and in Ukraine — by supporting and protecting the neo-Nazis.

    • Replies: @Anon
  450. annamaria says:
    @Momus

    The Bolshevik revolution does as well: http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v14/v14n1p-4_Weber.html
    “The Jewish Role in the Bolshevik Revolution and Russia’s Early Soviet Regime. Assessing the Grim Legacy of Soviet Communism,” by Mark Weber

  451. annamaria says:
    @Anon

    Correction: “Two Hundred Years Together” by Solzhenitsyn

  452. Harbinger says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “I don’t see what comfort you can get from reading it…..”

    I don’t it was for the photograph really.

  453. Momus says:
    @Zumbuddi

    I should have been clearer and said: “any country that loses its Ashkenazi Jews”.

    • Replies: @Zumbuddi
  454. @jilles dykstra

    You should acquaint yourself with his policies for agermany in “Die Grundlagen des neunzehnten Jahrhunderts” (Foundations of the Nineteenth Century) – in 2 volumes. As well as what Goebbels (in his diaries) had to say about him.

  455. DFH says:
    @Momus

    Great, it should be no trouble at all for you all to move there then

  456. Incitatus says:
    @Wally

    “Hitler decided to declare war on the USA” [11 Dec 1941]
    “There was no choice. The US had already attacked German subs & shipping and was supplying Britain and the USSR.”

    Before 3 Sep 1939? The day Germany let warnings expire and England and France declared war?

    That evening U-30 sinks passenger liner SS Athenia without warning. 128 civilian passengers and crew are killed, including 28 US citizens and 54 Canadians.

    Germany insists no U-boat is closer than 75 miles to the incident. U-30 returns to Wilhelmshaven 27 Sep, where Captain Lemp reports he mistook the civilian liner for a military target. Raeder and Dönitz decline to prosecute Lemp (previously ordered to avoid civilian ships) and order U-30’s log be altered to conceal the sinking (an international crime).

    In October the Völkisher Beobacter accuses Winston Churchill of ordering the sinking to turn neutral opinion against Germany.

    Ever write for the Völkisher Beobacter, Wally?

    • Troll: L.K
  457. L.K says:
    @Wally

    Anyone can key in English text and make absurd claims about it.

    ex.:

    “I, Incitatus am a pedophile, and you should be too.”

    source: Incitatus Diary, 2018

    Buahhahaha, good one!

    InZitatus is just another Zionist liar, obfuscator, slanderer and pathetic anti-German propagandist.

    He sees German transgressions everywhere going back to the unification- maybe even further back- but is perfectly okay with Jewish supremacist scum carrying out a war of conquest and ethnic cleansing against the indigenous people of Palestine in the post WW2 era!

    His boyfriend Sam the Sham is a Zionist bacillus who is on record recently defending the killing and wounding of thousands of unarmed Palestinian protesters from Gaza, who are predominantly refugees and descendants from the 1948 ethnic cleansing of Palestine.
    There is not even a war and this is the year of 2018!

    There is also the village idiot ‘momus’, an even more radical lying Zionist rat than the Sham, if that is even possible… in fact, a quick glance at the comments reveals plenty of Hasbara Team members here; tyrion2, Crimson2, Andy Mathis, etc…

    Sniff, sniff…. can you smell the fear?

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  458. Zumbuddi says:
    @Momus

    Nonsensical response that clarifies nothing.
    Nor did you address the blank record of Jewish achievement until the host country develops institutions that Jews exploit but do not create or build.

    Try again.

    • Replies: @notanon
  459. Zumbuddi says:
    @Momus

    If Jews are such hot s%$ts, why do they always need a superior power to prop them up?

    Herzl’s bio is unambiguous: he petitioned the German kaiser, the Ottoman sheik, and the British government go help. Zionism destroyed all three nations.

    The Zionist project was nearly bankrupt until German Jews were coerced to migrate — with their $$ and their Mercedeses.

    Israel was an economic basketcase until the migration of Russians, many of whom were not Jewish but most of whom had top-notch educations paid for by the Russian people. USA taxpayers paid for their resettlement. “StartUp Nation” concedes that Russian education provided the “start” to Israel’s tech evolution.

    Most people are reasonable and want to get along.
    When Jews rub crap in people’s faces, and boast, and the boasts are such obvious lies, it would take Jesus himself to react with anything other than anger,

    If you guys are so clever, why don’t you stop going out of your way to piss people off?
    — oh, and learn to say Thank You rather than Gimme.

  460. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @annamaria

    You have degenerated since you first started sounding reliably like a Russian propagandist. But thank you for saving me the trouble of reading and digesting your frothings. “Your tribe” does it as it shows both error, inattention and faulty reasoning. As it happens I have no Jewish ancestry for the documented 600 years and only about 4-5 per cent of the 20 genomes closest to mine.

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @annamaria
  461. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Harbinger

    Pathetic! Don’t you think anyone will look and check before deciding whether to keep you off or on the commenters to ignore list?

    • Replies: @Harbinger
  462. Harbinger says:
    @Anon

    I shouldn’t worry if I were you. I won’t lose any sleep should you decide to ignore me. You have nothing interesting to state.

  463. @annamaria

    Jeffrey St. Clair, Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein are not honest. They pretend be to be and naîve gentiles believe them. Anyway, they manage to distract some people. That’s their objective.

    Main paragraph of St Clair’s piece:

    ” The bigger question is why the US government would participate so enthusiastically in the cover-up of a war crime against its own sailors. Well, the Pentagon has never been slow to hide its own incompetence. And there’s plenty of that in the Liberty affair: bungled communications, refusal to provide an escort, situating the defenseless Liberty too close to a raging battle, the inability to intervene in the attack and the inexcusably long time it took to reach the battered ship and its wounded.”

    That’s it. Everything can be explained by ” Incompetence at Pentagon ”

    Of course that isn’t the bigger question. The bigger question is: Who Johnson /Robert McNamara etc… were working for ? If you don’t know, you will never understand what happened to ” Liberty”.

    And of course you can read all books and articles of the “great” liberal intellectuals (Jeffrey St. Clair, Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein) and you will never find out.

    Their critique is just facade. Don’t waste your time with them.

    • Replies: @Zumbuddi
  464. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Momus

    The diamond industry of Israel is an important world player in producing cut diamonds for wholesale. In 2010, Israel became the chair of the Kimberley Process Certification Scheme.[1] As of 2016, cut diamonds constituted 28% of Israel’s total exports and they were the country’s biggest export product, amounting to 12% of the world’s production.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_industry_in_Israel

    Israel Knows Diamond Is Girl’s Best Friend

    http://www.thefrontpageonline.com/op-ed/israel-knows-diamond-is-girls-best-friend

    Marilyn Monroe – Diamonds are a girl’s best friend

    [MORE]

    “Diamonds Are a Girl’s Best Friend” is a jazz song introduced by Carol Channing in the original Broadway production of Gentlemen Prefer Blondes (1949), which was written by Jule Styne and Leo Robin.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamonds_Are_a_Girl%27s_Best_Friend

    Channing was born in Seattle, Washington, on January 31, 1921,[4] the only child of George (1888-1957) and Adelaide Channing (née Glaser; 1886–1984). Her mother was of German-Jewish descent, and Channing considers herself “part-Jewish”.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Channing

    Styne was born to a Jewish family[2] in London, England as Julius Kerwin Stein to immigrants from Ukraine, the Russian Empire who ran a small grocery.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jule_Styne

    I believe Leo Robin was Jewish as well.

    The Jewish diamond syndicate has used Hollywood and the Jewish media monopolies to advertise and sell their products for close to a century now.

    When diamonds were a Jew’s best friend

    The rise and fall of the Jewish diamond monopoly

    Whereas 80% to 90% of all rough diamonds still passed through De Beers in the late 1980’s, the American antitrust law suit and the subsequent rise of the Gujarati diamond empire allowed for market supply and demand dynamics, not the De Beers monopoly, to control diamond prices. During the early 2000s, countries like Australia, Canada and Russia started by-passing the DeBeers channel.

    De Beers responded with campaigns (that became popular strong support from Jewish dominated Hollywood) against buying “conflict” or “blood” diamonds. Rap stars, movie stars and articles in cyberspace have been very active warning us against these stones, so no conscious American liberal would dare buying such a diamond. These campaigns insist that anyone buying diamond jewelry must be careful to select only those diamonds certified by the accepted legal Kimberley Process Certification Scheme or KPCS. This scheme supposedly prevents that earnings from rough diamonds are used to support monstrous regimes or rebel armies in West Africa, which have been characterized by rape, mutilations, displacement and outright slaughter for more than a decade.

    Few people realize, however, that the concept of “blood” diamondsis nothing but another marketing ploy by the De Beers syndicate. The KPCS was created for no other reason but preventing West African diamonds from flooding the market and pulling down the prices of raw diamonds and decreasing the market share of the growing competition De Beers faces.

    https://medium.com/@AspieSavant/when-diamonds-were-a-jew-s-best-friend-bae3d1577ffc

    • Replies: @Momus
  465. guilferal says:

    If in jail & pressed, you can always say that what you’re in for is “Cybercrime”.

  466. Momus says:
    @FKA Max

    Industrial diamond is probably a bigger and definitely more important part of the business for a high tech country that makes things from very hard and strong materials.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
    , @FKA Max
  467. Blahmeh says:

    The war was caused by everyone. Events, dear boy.

    Many in the Nazi regime wanted Jews wiped out. No documented direct link to Hitler but we’ll ultimately never know of any verbal orders.

    Versailles almost can be directly attributed to ww2 IMO

    Germany had to be checked by the Brits. British strategy was to ally with 2nd power to crush challengers.

    Churchill was a piece of shit

    Nazis were pieces of shit

    Massacares on both sides. War crimes on both sides.

    A right mess that has led the right mess we’re in now.

    I do look forward to what the next 50 years hold

  468. notanon says:
    @Zumbuddi

    Nor did you address the blank record of Jewish achievement until…

    it wasn’t entirely blank as they maintained themselves in a cognitive niche for a long time but as far as big picture achievement is concerned

    an interesting (to me) possibility is centuries of inbreeding depression which was lifted when they moved back into western Europe and adopted the western marriage model

    (or possibly simply due to improvements in transport technology leading to marriages between previously more isolated Jewish communities).

  469. annamaria says:
    @Anon

    It is a hallmark of hasbarists to through insults towards discussants on Unz forum as soon as ziocons’ machinations are mentioned.
    For some mysterious reasons, you avoided addressing the main point of my post: https://www.alternet.org/world/how-israel-lobby-protected-ukrainian-neo-nazis
    “If passed, Conyers’ amendment would have explicitly barred those found to have offered “praise or glorification of Nazism or its collaborators, including through the use of white supremacist, neo-Nazi, or other similar symbols” from receiving any form of support from the US Department of Defense.
    The amendment was presented by congressional staffers to lobbyists from Anti-Defamation League (ADL) and the Simon Wiesenthal Center, two of the country’s largest established Jewish pressure groups. Despite their stated mission to combat anti-Semitism and violent extremism, the ADL and Wiesenthal Center refused to support Jeffries and Conyers’ proposal. … An ADL lobbyist insisted that “the focus should be on Russia…”
    https://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2018/02/05/max-blumenthal-us-is-arming-neo-nazis-in-ukraine/ “Max Blumenthal reports that the US has provided military assistance to the Azov Battalion, known as a bastion of neo-Nazism within the Ukrainian armed forces. He also discusses US and Israeli ties to the far-right government in Poland, where neo-Nazism is on the rise.”

    If you, Anon [436] are such a purist re the “bad Nazis,” then why you are so indifferent to the zionists’ decisive participation in the revival of Nazism (banderism) in Ukraine? There is a screeching dissonance between “eternal victimhood, gassing,” and other holocaust biz’ memes and the actual behavior of zionists in the Middle East and Ukraine today.
    The zionists’ support for banderists destroys all and any pretenses on “superior morality” and “incomparable sufferings” peddled by the noisy zionists crowd in relation to WWII.
    You have no ammunition to support the Kagans clan, Ledeen, and despicable Gershman of the NED fame.

  470. annamaria says:
    @Anon

    There are more inconvenient truths for Anon [436]: https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-challenges-russia-to-nuclear-war/5643607
    “The US State Department has warned Syria against launching an offensive against terrorist positions in southern Syria. The statement claims that the American military will respond if Syrian forces launch an operation aimed at restoring the legitimate government’s control over the rebel-held areas…
    New terror organizations are being established by the US at the Tanf military base in southern Syria that is run by Washington, where a number of armed groups are being trained in order to be used as a pretext to justify US presence in the war-torn country. …
    The plan is to transport Iraqi oil to the Haifa [Israel] Port on the Mediterranean through Deir Ezzor and Tanf.”
    But of course, the zionists’ “most moral” influence on the zionized US government pursues the “most moral” goals only. See Oded Yinon Plan for Eretz Israel. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/pdf/The%20Zionist%20Plan%20for%20the%20Middle%20East.pdf

  471. Incitatus says:
    @L.K

    “InZitatus [troll] is just another Zionist liar, obfuscator, slanderer and pathetic anti-German propagandist…”

    Forget Wally’s “pedophile” slur L.K? Slipping?

    “Sniff, sniff…. can you smell the fear?”

    Open your eyes L.K. That’s not fear you smell. It’s Wally’s posterior!

    Brave of you to explore it so thoroughly. He seems awfully quiet. Par for the course?

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  472. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Momus

    I believe, the vast majority of diamonds from Israel are used in jewellery, and they are mostly bought by Americans:

    “And you see Israelis in NY all the time. You see Israelis in the Far East. It’s become a very important hub for global distribution of diamonds,” Lasher told CBN News.

    “New York is the bedrock of the world diamond industry. Over 40 percent of the world’s diamonds are consumed by the U.S. Israel is a very important partner in moving the goods through the world and to the U.S.,” he added.

    http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/israel/2016/march/israel-world-leaders-in-diamond-trade

    [MORE]

    Advance Publications https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_Publications , which is owned by the Jewish Newhouse family and includes publications like Vogue, Vanity Fair, Tatler, etc., is a huge promoter of diamond jewellery:

    Best Engagement Rings

    http://www.vogue.co.uk/gallery/engagement-rings-for-women

    47 jaw-dropping engagement rings

    https://www.tatler.com/gallery/best-engagement-rings

    The sparkliest emerald and diamond engagement rings

    Sparkly jewellery. The real reason we get married

    https://www.tatler.com/gallery/best-emerald-and-diamond-engagement-rings

    10 Engagement Ring Cuts and Their Unique Meaning

    https://www.vogue.com/article/engagement-ring-diamond-cut-style-meaning

    The Best Celebrity Engagement Rings of All Time

    https://www.vogue.com/article/best-celebrity-engagement-rings-kim-kardashian-kate-middleton

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  473. Incitatus says:
    @iffen

    Iffen,

    Sorry to be late. Wonderful post. Questions well worth pondering. Doubtless historians have answers. The best I can offer is opinion which, like weather, changes from time to time.

    ‘I have wondered if there was something different that could provide some explanation: late to nation state development vis-à-vis other European states, great power status stymied?”

    Don’t know any rule for predicting how peoples/nations rise to excel, endure, or make catastrophic choices and fall into ruin. Fate, chance, luck? Wish I knew (I’d be a lot richer).

    France’s bad choices culminated in 1789, got really ugly in the Terror 1793-94 (Pol-Pot-style ‘reeducation’). Napoléon I – a relative unknown – rescued France, but ultimately invited fate not dissimilar to 20C Germany. Given 20C technology, perhaps he’d have killed as many as Ludendorff and Hitler. He certainly did his best with his own men (the Grande Armée suffered 77% casualties in Russia: a heavy price for glorious failure).

    Nationalism threatened Austria-Hungary, an empire in decline. Franz Joseph took the Habsburg throne in 1848, a year of widespread revolution. He was nearly killed by a Hungarian nationalist five years later (knifed in the neck 1853). Prussia won leadership over the confederation of German states at Austria-Hungary’s expense in 1866, went on with brilliant leadership to unite disparate German states into a Reich at (of all places) Versailles after completely defeating France. Pan-Germanic nationalism waxed as Hohenzollern destiny.

    The lesson the French drew from faulty leadership can be seen in the exile of Napoléon III in universal disgrace. A sober, introspective account of the war followed in Zola’s ‘Débâcle’ (1892).

    Lessons Germans learned 1870-71 were the opposite. They gained Alsace-Lorraine and exacted 5 billion gold francs – more than enough to make war profitable. A fatal expectation in 1914?

    In short, it seems nationalism was fatal to the Habsburgs, formative to the Hohenzollerns?

    “I have discarded the idea that there was “something” wrong with Germans…”

    Agree. Nothing wrong with Germans. They were screwed like everybody else.

    After extraordinary leadership (Wilhelm I, Bismarck and Moltke), they had a run of bad luck. Criminal leadership that used a tradition of militarism to feed imperial ambition. But flawed by incompetence (no contingency plans Belgium/France 1914; Russia 1941) and nurtured by hubris. The ordinary German’s nightmare.

    “…rather I think, “But for the Grace of God go many nations.”

    Agree. I’m worried about us at the moment. 20C Germany is a sober lesson.

    “H. certainly knew, and stated, that the Final Solution could only be accomplished in the fog of an all-out war. Did this impel him in that direction?”

    Great question. My current take (it changes).

    Hitler seems to have had an apocalyptic gambling addiction. Maybe it started with an affinity for risk born 1914-18, when each day at the front was a roll of the dice. BTW, he wasn’t in the trenches, had a dry bed 2-3km behind the lines in regimental HQ as a runner. But he took advantage of the ‘front-line’ ethos recounted by Ernst Jünger in ‘Storm of Steel’. And edited (sidelined) those who knew better.

    His position on Jews was pragmatic: they were useful scapegoats. A dead scapegoat is useless, can’t take the blame. Hitler was brilliantly incremental, exacting the maximum utility for every slur and bogus accusation, stripping property from each emigrating Jew and exacting the maximum exit duty. All carefully choreographed to avoid clouding the ’36 Olympics, etc. Most German Jews left by ’39, those who remained were sent east.

    Hitler’s problem was Jews in conquered territory. What to do with them, after all the formative demonization? He crossed the bridge with the Kommissarbefehl and Barbarrossa in 1941. Kill them. Man, women, child. Himmler says as much in his 4 Oct 1943 ‘Burned Bridges’ speech at Posen. Rosenberg (not the sharpest tool in the shed) agrees.

    So, where are we? Hitler the gambler. I think he went ‘all-in’ after ally Japan bombed Pearl Harbor 7 Dec 1941. Declares war on decadent, international-capitalist USA 11 Dec ’41. Wannsee was a few weeks later (20 Jan ’42).

    Messianic spite, apocalyptic tendencies and hubris are a bad combination.

    “How many Jews did the UK and the US save via allowed immigration? Millions, right?”

    Whatever it was, it wasn’t enough. But it’s a trick question. Most Jews in Eastern Europe weren’t offered an emigration option. They were killed, plain and simple.

    Who stopped the killing?

  474. Sam Shama says:
    @Incitatus

    From the web:
    Reptiles have a specialized chemically sensitive organ called the Jacobson’s organ that is thought to be able to convert tastes into smells, and boosts his awareness of his surroundings. Snakes and lizards flick their tongue, capturing particles in the air.

    His last sentence, written in bold, is rather in keeping with his breeding one might say. ‘Snake pit’ gets a new meaning from the duo.

  475. @Sam Shama

    Germany annexes Belgium
    Germany annexes France
    Germany invades England

    So… no Muslim mayor of London in this timeline?

  476. @Incitatus

    He crossed the bridge with the Kommissarbefehl and Barbarrossa in 1941.

    LOL. Think of those poor commisars.

  477. According to their own most holy book, The Babylonian Talmud, which virtually every rabbi and observant Jew holds to be true, the Jew is superior and is a totally different species than others:

    “The Jews are human beings, but the goyim (Gentiles) are not human beings; they are only beasts.”—Baba Mezia 114a-114b

    Inferior Gentiles, says the Talmud, are destined to be the Jews’ slaves:

    “The non-Jew is an animal in human form, and is condemned to serve the Jew day and night.”—Midrash Talpiah 225

    “We have a case of the Jew…a totally different species. The body of a Jewish person is of a totally different quality from the body of members of other nations of the world… A non-Jewish person comes from three satanic spheres, while the Jewish world stems from holiness.” —– Rabbi Mendel Schneerson

    Source: http://www.texemarrs.com/072014/are_jews_master_race.htm

    While it is impossible to prove a negative the preponderance of the evidence calls into question the Jewish holocaust narrative which survives by suppressing such evidence. For instance, why did the Nazi’s provide hospitals, nurseries, concert halls, movie theaters, recreational sports facilities and a whore house at Auschwitz if it was only an extermination camp? Where did they get the wood or coal to incinerate 6 million bodies and why wasn’t the enormous pollution from this effort noticed by British or US aircraft which controlled the sky over Europe?

    Having read most of Irving’s books I can attest that I cannot recall that he ever raised any of these arguments and he most certainly never said that there was no Jewish holocaust. He merely stated that there was no historical evidence that Hitler ordered a Jewish holocaust.

    So why all the fuss and persecution of this scholar? Because with his body of work it becomes apparent that the alleged holocaust only became a tragedy when organized Jewry found that there was financial gain and political power to be had from promoting this narrative sometime in the early 1960′s.

    To the Jew the truth of the Jewish holocaust is irrelevant. What is important is that you care about Jewish suffering even if it is not exceptional or indeed even if the lives of the Jew internees at Auschwitz were relatively comfortable when compared to the lives of ordinary civilians suffering the ravages of war on the European continent.

    However, if we are to believe the Jews claim that they are a separate species why should we be concerned with their welfare. Indeed, why should we even tolerate their existence? If they are a separate species, then questions of race have nothing to do with the relationship of the human race to the Jews.

    If the position taken by Jewry’s spiritual leaders is correct then, true or false, the narrative of the Jewish holocaust is of no concern to the human race.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
    , @Wally
  478. iffen says:
    @Incitatus

    But it’s a trick question.

    Pardon my sarcasm. I was alluding to the narrative that WWII was all about saving the Jews. Most Americans don’t know anything about the voyage of the St. Louis.

    • Replies: @Wally
  479. @iffen

    It’s not at all clear to me how you inferred that from what I wrote: it’s not my foundational mythos. I do not invest a single scintilla of emotional energy in that drivel – it’s pretty clear that it’s bullshit from go to whoa – like a great many things that emerge from the Avramic trifecta of primitive gibberish (Judaism, Islam and the Jesus torture-porn death-cult).

    {Although, as an aside: what it is about membership in cults based on that gallimaufry of primitive nonsense, that makes people so prone to making shit up? Because seriously, it’s hard to find a collective more prone to it – whether it’s the Hadrian Holocaust of 100 billion people at Bethar [Gittim 57b], or the Deed of Constantine, or any of the ‘harrowing but entirely fictional first-person narratives’ from the unpleasantness of 1940s Europe}

    But let’s get back to your inability to infer the writer’s opinion from a pretty-straightforward piece of text.

    The relevant piece of text in question has a Flesch-Kincaid (FC) Grade level of 11.7, and an FC reading-ease score of 54.4 – so it should be able to be understood by most 17 year olds. If you found it difficult to draw accurate conclusions from such a piece of text… well, I guess it depends where you went to school, for how long, and how much attention you paid.

    That said: perusing the OECD’s PIAAC studies of adult competencies put an end to my surprise at the poor reading comprehension of the vast bulk of human adults (in fact according to the PIAAC results, only about the top 5% can hope for the achievement of even rudimentary levels of syncretic analytical competence with written text).

    The good news is that if you stick at it, and continue to challenge yourself, one day you might be able to obtain more accurate guesses at the meaning of things.

    • Replies: @iffen
  480. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Momus

    Some additional information that might be of interest to you. Natural industrial diamonds http://www.lieberandsolow.com/industrial-diamonds.html are only about 2% of the annual industrial diamond supply, and about 60% of all natural diamonds mined annually, according to the following figures:

    [MORE]

    REVISION – Friday July 12, 2013

    Upon further research, I have concluded that 2013 estimated mine production of gem-quality diamonds should be closer to 50 million carats, and industrial-quality production should be closer to 80 million carats. In addition, I estimate recycled diamond supply to be closer to 5 million carats in 2013. Figure 1.1a represents these revisions.

    Figure 1.1a

    Source: Bain & Co., Tacy LTD, Kimerbly Process, Paul Zimnisky analysis

    *Based on an estimation of 130M carats mined in 2013, of which only approximately 40% will be of gem-quality, with the balance being industrial grade.
    **See: http://www.kitco.com/ind/Zimnisky/2013-07-12-A-Diamond-is-Forever-Recycled.html

    http://www.kitco.com/ind/Zimnisky/2013-06-19-How-High-Quality-Synthetic-Diamonds-Will-Impact-the-Market.html Archived link: http://archive.is/ZsLv4

    This is one of the big players in the Israeli natural diamond trade:

    He has been described as controversial[4] and says of himself, he should be awarded a Nobel Prize for his “work developing the Democratic Republic of the Congo”.
    [...]
    Dan Gertler was born in December 1973, a grandson of Moshe Schnitzer, first President and co-founder of the Israel Diamond Exchange in 1947,[2] who won the Israel Prize in 2004. His family was traditionally involved in cutting and merchandising diamonds. While growing up, Gertler spent as much time as he could learning about the diamond trade from his father and grandfather.
    [...]
    The United States Department of the Treasury specifically named Dan Gertler in the Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) financial sanctions list for serious human rights abuse and corruption, under the Magnitsky Act and blocked his US-based assets. According to a February 2018 article in The Economist, the sanctions statement said that Gertler had “amassed his fortune through hundreds of millions of dollars’ worth of opaque and corrupt mining and oil deals” in the DRC.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Gertler

    The following article is from 1977, and at that time 52% of all gem-quality diamonds were cut in Israel, which, I think, supports my earlier claim that the vast majority of natural diamonds from and processed in Israel are probably used in (high-end) jewellery and not in industrial applications http://www.unz.com/announcement/the-remarkable-historiography-of-david-irving/#comment-2369677 , even if that percentage has most likely significantly decreased since 1977 relative to the total world gem diamond supply/trade. The profit margins in jewellery/gem/investment diamonds are likely much higher as well when compared to industrial diamonds.

    52% of Gems Cut in Israel

    OCT. 17, 1977

    Israel is currently responsible for processing—cutting and polishing‐52 percent of the world’s supply of rough gem diamonds. The industry, which started in Palestine in a cowshed in Petah Tiqva in 1937, has grown from an export trade of $5 million in 1952 to an anticipated Si billion by the end of this year.

    The rough diamonds are almost all obtained from “the syndicate,” as the diamond trading company in London is called. The company Is owned by the vast South African De Beers interests.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1977/10/17/archives/52-of-gems-cut-in-israel-in-israel-processor-of-52-of-worlds.html

    Some additional information:

    Signals by De Beers that shortages in the melee were looming had led to massive speculative buying in the late 1970s and early 1980s. In that same period, the Belgian and Russian industries were heavily competing with Israel in the better quality ranges, and India was eating away at the lower and cheaper ends. Interest rates were high and the industry’s banking debt equaled around one year of polished exports.

    http://www.idexonline.com/portal_fullmazalubracha.asp?id=25808

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  481. @Name Withheld By Request

    I am always loath to compare ‘deniers’ to Galileo, but I have no hesitation in comparing ‘anti-deniers’ to Bellarmine and his claque of corrupt assholes.

    In an unfettered market for information, bad/wrong/stupid ideas are destroyed by better ideas – there is no need to interfere with the ‘truth discovery’ process. Bad ideas need interference in that process in order to persist. (Therein lies the entire history of politics and religion).

    If an idea requires political mechanisms to underwrite its acceptance, and/or demands political suppression of its opposite view… that should put the idea in question under significant suspicion.

    I have no doubt that some people get significant psychic ‘income’ from knowing that there is a set of legislated, political mechanisms designed to marginalise people who oppose their preferred set of ideas.

    The problem with that: it has absolutely zero chance of long-term success unless the political machinery is completely on board – and it is several centuries since the political class has even paid lip-service to religious nonsense.

    People feeling clever about being able to inflict costs on anyone who doubts their [C]hosen narrative, are playing a short game: they fail to grasp (or do not care) that they will obtain the support of the political class for exactly as long as it suits the political class, and not a second longer.

    At an individual-beneficiary level, the long-term consequences only matter in some ‘notional’ sense: Abe Foxman and the rest of those on the teat, appear not to care about the long-term downside risk when the current payday is so lucrative. Perhaps they are indifferent to the long-term payoff, having already ‘filled their boots’ (as the British say); that short-sightedness seems to have been a ‘thing’ quite a few times during the last twenty millennia.

    Anybody silly enough to thing that politically-mandated belief is the way to ensure that an idea survives needs to commit a single phrase to memory: E pur si muove.

  482. @utu

    The late J Rufus Fears, “historian and scholar” who has written and lectured extensively on Churchill, whom Fears assesses to have been the greatest man of modern times, also praised Churchill’s writing, especially his History of World War II, for which Winston was awarded a Nobel Prize.

    Try this at home:

    search for “gas chambers” in Winnie’s WWII:

    https://www.amazon.com/Second-World-War-Winston-Churchill/dp/039541685X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1528764214&sr=8-1&keywords=churchill+history+of+world+war+ii

    0 results for gas chambers

    Try “holocaust”
    0 results for holocaust

    How about “extermination camp”
    0 results for extermination camp

    Genocide:
    “0 results for genocide

    “Death camp” appears twice, but appears to refer to the Asian theatre.

    Nobel Prize-winning history by the “greatest man in the modern age” who had inside information of the most specific and intimate sort.
    Doesn’t mention holocaust.

    What are we to think?

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    , @Anonymous
  483. Wally says:
    @Name Withheld By Request

    Highly recommended:

    The Deportation of Hungarian Jews from May to July 1944

    by Carlo Mattogno: https://codoh.com/library/document/357/?lang=en
    most were transferred OUT of Auschwitz, none were ‘gassed’

    Lies about Hungarian Jews debunked http://juergen-graf.vho.org/articles/hungarian-holocaust-debate.html

    Jews evacuated to USSR during war : https://archive.is/jA9iI

    more Jews evacuated to USSR during war: https://www.jta.org/1944/02/23/archive/german-lauds-russia-for-joining-intergovernmental-committee-for-refugees

    Cheers.

    http://www.codoh.com

  484. Wally says:
    @iffen

    said: “Most Americans don’t know anything about the voyage of the St. Louis.

    And why should they?
    The US did and does turn away lots illegal immigrants.

    However, Jews have concocted an easily debunked fake story about the St. Louis.

    “There’s no business like shoah business”

    Jews & their leftists support strict Israeli immigration laws which specify JEWS ONLY, while demanding massive 3rd world immigration into the US & Europe.

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    • Replies: @iffen
  485. iffen says:
    @Kratoklastes

    Like I said, I don’t give much of a shit about what happened in Germany 70-odd years ago..

    Moses supposedly leads a rampage of genocide, and 3000 years later

    No inference was required. I am confident that you don’t understand.

  486. Wally says:
    @Incitatus

    said:
    “Hitler’s problem was Jews in conquered territory. What to do with them, after all the formative demonization? He crossed the bridge with the Kommissarbefehl and Barbarrossa in 1941. Kill them. Man, women, child. Himmler says as much in his 4 Oct 1943 ‘Burned Bridges’ speech at Posen.”
    Complete nonsense.

    Jews tell us that murdered Jews went to huge mass graves and that to this day they know the locations of these alleged mass graves. So why don’t they excavate the alleged enormous ‘mass graves’, show the world the millions of Jew corpses, and prove their point? Because the alleged remains do not, never did exist.

    recommended info. on Himmler’s Posen speech:
    Himmler’s so called “Extermination of Jews” speech debunked

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5474

    and:
    On Holocaust Revisionism / Basic Arguments and Political Implications

    https://codoh.com/library/document/1805/?lang=en

    and:

    https://codoh.com/library/document/445/?lang=en

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Momus
  487. Momus says:
    @Wally

    Jews tell us that murdered Jews went to huge mass graves and that to this day they know the locations of these alleged mass graves. So why don’t they excavate the alleged enormous ‘mass graves’, show the world the millions of Jew corpses, and prove their point? Because the alleged remains do not, never did exist.

    Not playing corpse steam shovels today Benthic? Regardless you are doing the Holocaust historians work again.

    Any one with more than a passing interest in the Holocaust knows that the Nazis used crematoria, incineration on griddles, disinterring and burning on pyres, and the subsequent pulverising of bones with mallets by slaves to enable the remains to be dispersed in a variety of ways.

    Claiming there are millions of complete skeletons show Nazi Holocaust deniers as desperate, obvious liars and add even more weight to the proven historical record.

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @Wally
  488. Anonymous[371] • Disclaimer says:
    @Harbinger

    What is the answer to his France/Holland/Belgium comment?

    • Replies: @Harbinger
  489. Harbinger says:
    @Anonymous

    “What is the answer to his France/Holland/Belgium comment?”
    You’ll have to explain a little better please?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  490. annamaria says:
    @Momus

    “Any one with more than a passing interest in the Holocaust knows….”
    – Then why all this fuss about the legitimate research in the Jewish holocaust claims if the facts are so well-established? What is so mortifying in this research for the “most moral?”
    Meanwhile, here are the results of the implementation of Oded Yinon plan for Eretz Israel in Libya: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-12/libya-and-after-photos-go-viral

    http://themillenniumreport.com/2015/12/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/

    “When viewed in the current context, the war on Iraq, the 2006 war on Lebanon, the 2011 war on Libya, the ongoing wars on Syria and Iraq, the war on Yemen, the process of regime change in Egypt, must be understood in relation to the Zionist Plan for the Middle East.
    The latter consists in weakening and eventually fracturing neighboring Arab states as part of an Israeli expansionist project.
    Bear in mind this design is not strictly a Zionist Plan, it is an integral part of US foreign policy, namely Washington’s intent to fracture and balkanize the Middle East.
    A near-century ago, the World Zionist Organization’s plan for a Jewish state included: https://www.alternet.org/world/how-israel-lobby-protected-ukrainian-neo-nazis
    • Historic Palestine;
    • South Lebanon up to Sidon and the Litani River;
    • Syria’s Golan Heights, Hauran Plain and Deraa; and
    • Control of the Hijaz Railway from Deraa to Amman, Jordan as well as the Gulf of Aqaba.
    Some Zionists wanted more – land from the Nile in the West to the Euphrates in the East, comprising Palestine, Lebanon, Western Syria and Southern Turkey.”
    — The ongoing slaughter in the Middle East (4 million killed and counting) is the consequence of Zionists/Ziocons designs.
    PS: Momus, don’t forget the decisive involvement of the US zionists in the revival of Nazism (banderism) in Ukraine. Your moral outrage is sorely misplaced.

    https://consortiumnews.com/2017/03/15/the-kagans-are-back-wars-to-follow/

    • Replies: @Momus
  491. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    [Nobel Prize-winning history by the “greatest man in the modern age” who had inside information of the most specific and intimate sort.]

    There are two immediate inferences to be drawn.

    First, no sane study of the time and events would ascribe to Churchill the title of “insider” to German information and the vice committed by the Nazis.

    Second, it is more than a bit odd for one who suggests without reservation that Churchill was an inveterate liar, to then propose the same man’s writing as proof of absence of said events.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  492. Momus says:
    @annamaria

    None of that triggers my logic circuits Annamaria.

    Why would the Israelis or the Americans want to be responsible for millions of cantankerous Arabs?

    Israel is happy with her borders as they are. The Middle East would be a nicer place for Arabs if they recognised the small patch Israel has and is flourishing on.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  493. seriousyl says:

    Irving sued Lipstadt, not the other way around. He tried to silence her and lost. That Irving’s supporters lie about this (outright or by omission) is telling.

    This is all so tawdry.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  494. annamaria says:

    “…logic…”
    1. “Israel is happy with her borders as they are:” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borders_of_Israel
    “Some borders are internationally recognized while others are disputed.”
    2. Ziocons at the wheel: “Seven Countries In Five Years:”

    (see Oded Yinon Plan for Eretz Israel)
    3. Oded Yinon plan: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/pdf/The%20Zionist%20Plan%20for%20the%20Middle%20East.pdf
    “The dissolution of Syria and Iraq later on into ethnically or religiously unqiue areas such as in Lebanon, is Israel’s primary target on the Eastern front in the long run, while the dissolution of the military power of those states serves as the primary short term target. Syria will fall apart, in accordance with its ethnic and religious structure, into several states such as in present day Lebanon, so that there will be a Shi’ite Alawi state along its coast, a Sunni state in the Aleppo area, another Sunni state in Damascus hostile to its northern neighbor, and the Druzes who will set up a state, maybe even in our Golan, and certainly in the Hauran and in northern Jordan. This state of affairs will be the guarantee for peace and security in the area in the long run, and that aim is already within our reach today.”
    – This genocidal supremacist plan has been in action thanks to the Jewish Power in the US. The results: The enormous moral and financial losses by the US. The massive slaughter of civilians (4 million dead and counting). The refugees/migrants crisis affecting Europe. Auxiliary events: the revival of Nazism (banderism) in Ukraine, which is a result of a regime change intended to blackmail Russians who dared to offer help to the sovereign state of Syria (in contradiction to Oded Yinon plan for Eretz Israel).

    • Replies: @Momus
  495. annamaria says:
    @Momus

    Actually, your phrasing, “Why would the Israelis or the Americans want to be responsible for millions of cantankerous Arabs?” sounds eerily similar to certain slogans from WWII era. Replace “Arabs” with “Jews” and voila, “Why would Americans want to be responsible for millions of cantankerous Jews?” Your thinking is not exactly in agreement with the “never again” meme.

  496. Wally says:
    @Momus

    There he goes again, back to his alleged & laughable bone grinding machines, see further down.
    Claimed Holocaust Bone Grinding Machine / laughable Bone Mill of Lemberg https://codoh.com/library/document/3220/?lang=en
    While he ignores the fact that his Jews claim that there are mass graves filled with Jew remains to this day and they not only know exactly where they are, but they have erected signs pointing to the fake sites. LOL I win.
    Must see here:

    http://www.unz.com/announcement/the-remarkable-historiography-of-david-irving/?highlight=ash+pond#comment-2367899

    • Replies: @Momus
  497. A one-dimensional & clearly apologetic Irving’s portrayal of Hitler is an astounding piece of blindness & self-delusion (as was the case with Irving’s hero).

    Wading through many comments, I can only say- welcome to Terra Crackpotia!

    Having read his Mein Kampf, Table Talk & some- not most- speeches & letters I’ve long since come to the conclusion, moralizing apart:

    1. Hitler was perhaps the most charismatic world-leader, surpassing Caesar & Napoleon. Evidently the most”philosophical”conqueror, working according a few basic ideas.

    2. he was not nearly close to Caesar or Napoleon in genius or energy (Alexander the Great & Genghis Khan we don’t know enough about). Mentally, he was explicit that he has more affinity with eastern Emperors in ancient China and Japan (he could as well had added Genghis Khan, because he also shared some similarities with world’s greatest conqueror).

    3. his world-view is frequently confusing: sometimes, he seems to think that Nazism will result in flourishing of individuality; on the other hand, he’s more inclined to zombification of individuals & turning them into fighting robots & nothing more.

    4. his spiritual dimension is also not well thought through: as a Christian, Hitler is proponent of masculine Christianity, the Crusader (with Aryan Christ). Providence governs his star, and we cannot decide whether he believed in the afterlife or not. He didn’t deny it, but also didn’t pay much attention to it. Providence was his Dharma, Tao… He expressed admiration for the Chinese, Japanese…whose history is replete with millions & tends of millions of dead during upheavals. But, he was, if we count Mongols, applying alien moral & mental criteria to the most civilized & creative people in the world in past 200 years- total lack of historical & cultural perspective. Mongols were a wild bunch of militarily controlled, but otherwise raving alcoholics without Bach, Gauss or Goethe.

    5. his historiosophy is sorely lacking. He ascribed the invention of “conscience” to “Jewish subversion”. What about Socrates, most pre-Socratics & even more, Stoics? Or, with China- Confucius (500 BC)?

    6. Hitler wanted to destroy-not only subdue, but to annihilate, ultimately, Poles, Ukrainians, Belorussians & Russians until the Urals. Most Indians in Hispanic and Anglo America died of diseases, not as the result of a huge extermination plan.This is the only time in history when massive continental extermination was the one great thing planned.

    7. He was, although cunning as a diplomatic tactician, wholly devoted to extreme war as the chief means of spiritual rebirth, similar to Maennerbuende in archaic Teutonic societies (see Mircea Eliade on initiation). Aggression, death, destruction, violence….were central to his world-view; he couldn’t accept something like Sun-Tzu on warfare (even if he knew of it, which is unlikely).

    8. he hated Jews with cold passion. Actually, his dogmatism prevented him to realistically assess that Jews don’t control Stalin’s USSR, nor Chamberlain’s Britain, nor FDR’s US. He got Abwehr reports, but hadn’t drawn any conclusion from them. His obsession with “stab-in-the-back” myth is also impossible to decipher- his accomplice Ludendorff was the man who surrendered Imperial Germany to Allies & could not name a single Jewish person in German government, diplomacy, finances, everything …that could be guilty of high treason. And yet, he proceeded with his antisemitic obsessions which, among other things, resulted in extermination of Jewish communities in Greece or Belgium. Hitler fantasized about some enormous Jewish power, but couldn’t tell when it had begun, nor where was it manifested.

    9. Hitler considered eastern Slavs to be subhumans. And then, astonishingly so, subhumans had produced perhaps the best WWII tank, T-34. How so? Time to correct his policy & show some elasticity in his strategies? Perhaps to radically alter many elements in his world-view? No, nothing…

    10. at the end, he envisioned complete annihilation of German people. The people who could not have prevailed over three empires (British, Soviet, American- just check populations, production & military). Not questioning that his entire concept, in its clearly defined megalomaniac version was, from the outset- absolutely lunatic & war simply unwinnable.

    So much about Irving’s hero who was, by duplicitous Anglo-Zionist scheming, lured into war he- basically- didn’t want…

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @Incitatus
  498. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    I realize that I never explicitly stated why I brought up the diamond trade in connection with Israel’s economy, etc. My argument is that Israel’s economy is to a large degree an “extraction” economy and not the “high-tech” economy which it is often portrayed as in the media, etc.

    Behind Israel’s High-Tech Reputation Is a Low-Tech Economy

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-14/israel-s-low-tech-economy-belies-reputation-as-global-tech-hub

    The State of Israel was founded on the diamond trade and to this day depends on it.

    Like with some many Jewish narratives, myths and legends be it the Holocaust, superior Jewish IQ, etc. it is often difficult to separate fact from fiction and/or exaggeration.

    Israel’s dirty trade in Africa: Diamonds, weapons and settlements

    [MORE]

    The Jews were among the pioneers of the diamond industry, starting from the Middle Ages. In the European countries, they were banned from working in many fields, but the trade of gold and diamonds were exempt from the ban. Therefore, the majority of Jews worked in that field, and this trade expanded considerably after the first Zionist conference held in Basel, Switzerland, in 1897 aiming to provide a financial source that would help the Zionist movement carry out its plans therefore, the Jewish billionaire, Edmond Rothschild established the first diamond factory in the Petah Tikva settlement in Palestine in 1937, i.e. before the establishment of Israel. Jewish diamond experts who came from Belgium and the Netherlands to settle in Palestine worked in this factory.
    [...]
    Therefore, the diamond industry and its export is one of the most important Israeli industries. The revenues of this trade reached 30 per cent of the gross national income in 2011, while in 2014, the trade of rough and polished diamonds in Israel amounted to $9.2 billion. This industry contributes $1 billion annually to the Israeli Defence Ministry’s budget. Starting from 2012, Israel has begun carrying out geological tests in order to extract diamonds from areas near the city of Haifa, where, according to the World Federation of Diamonds, Israel exports nearly $50 billion in diamonds a year.
    [...]
    The vast majority of these Jewish merchants are generals in the Israeli army and former Mossad agents who are arms dealers financing the construction of dozens of Israeli settlements in the Palestinian territories. These traders are the main source of arms for many African countries, as well as for many armed African groups.

    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20170802-israels-dirty-trade-in-africa-diamonds-weapons-and-settlements/ Archived link: http://archive.is/zatpR

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  499. Momus says:
    @Wally

    It’s a small, out of commission ball mill Wally.

    Poor photo museum curating and a lack of machine knowledge, along with a bit of speculative victim mongering explain it.

    The Nazis used slaves with mallets to pulverise the remains of their burnt victims.

  500. bj says:

    David Irving reveals a letter from Chaim Weizmann to Winston Churchill urging him to give the Jews what they want and in return the Jews will bring the USA into WWII.

  501. @joe webb

    Great story.

    Just what I needed to read.

  502. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    Addendum:

    [MORE]

    N. W. Ayer & Son created one of the most recognized slogans of the 20th century, A diamond is forever.

    Harry Oppenheimer of De Beers and Ayer president Gerold M. Lauck discussed a marketing campaign in 1938 that would change the falling price of diamonds at the time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N._W._Ayer_%26_Son#De_Beers

    Oppenheimer used Central Selling Organisation, an arm of De Beers, to help increase Israel’s market share of all cut and polished gem diamonds to more than 50%. All this while funding “liberal”political parties in South Africa which were “anti-Apartheid”[3].
    [...]
    On 18th of January 2017, the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) released 13 million pages of declassified documents online and within those documents there’s a document named “Israel’s relationship with Apartheid South Africa” dated 17 July 1986 which lists the following economic ties:
    [...]
    South Africa’s large and affluent Jewish community is the largest per capita contributor to Israel

    Such are the links between the two countries and the Oppenheimer family, that there’s a Holocaust Museum in Johannesburg while Israel has the Harry Oppenheimer Diamond Museum.

    https://uncensoredopinion.co.za/apartheid-israels-links-apartheid-south-africa-democratic-alliance-da/ Archived link: http://archive.is/TcQzM

    The Truth About Diamonds

    Why Diamonds Are Actually Worthless

  503. Momus says:
    @annamaria

    “The dissolution of Syria and Iraq later on into ethnically or religiously unqiue areas such as in Lebanon, is Israel’s primary target on the Eastern front in the long run, while the dissolution of the military power of those states serves as the primary short term target. Syria will fall apart, in accordance with its ethnic and religious structure, into several states such as in present day Lebanon, so that there will be a Shi’ite Alawi state along its coast, a Sunni state in the Aleppo area, another Sunni state in Damascus hostile to its northern neighbor, and the Druzes who will set up a state, maybe even in our Golan, and certainly in the Hauran and in northern Jordan. This state of affairs will be the guarantee for peace and security in the area in the long run, and that aim is already within our reach today.”

    It’s an over reach to describe the increasingly unlikely dissolution of Syria as a diabolical Zionist plot.

    Syria has defacto ceded the Golan heights to Israel (and the Druze within Syria). This has been pragmatic real politik from Assad’s side.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  504. Thea says:
    @byrresheim

    The real enigma is that originally the Germans were welcomed as liberators to the Ukrsine and they did everything they could to piss if the locals such that Stalin seemed the better option. Barbarossa could have gone quite differently had they treated the locals better.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  505. annamaria says:
    @Momus

    “It’s an over reach to describe the increasingly unlikely dissolution of Syria as a diabolical Zionist plot.”
    — Even MSM admits, very modestly though, that the US/Israel have been supporting, arming, and providing medical care for ISIS. The superb research by the highly principled and fearless investigative journalists shows that Israel (and the zionized US government) have been the main sponsors and protectors of ISIS “freedom fighters” against the sovereign state of Syria. https://www.cnn.com/2015/12/08/politics/amnesty-international-isis-weapons-u-s-/index.htmlhttps://www.syrianews.cc/us-coalition-armed-isis-nusra-front/
    “Evidence that ISIS is a US/Israeli Proxy Army:” https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6p8baj/evidence_that_isis_is_a_usisraeli_proxy_army/
    — Same with the US zionists support for Ukrainian neo-Nazis: The zionists would go to any length for the lunatic project of Eretz Israel: https://consortiumnews.com/2014/02/23/neocons-and-the-ukraine-coup/

    • Replies: @Momus
  506. Anonymous[128] • Disclaimer says:

    “Irving is an individual of uncommonly strong scholarly integrity, and as such he is unable to see things in the record that do not exist, even if it were in his considerable interest to do so, nor to fabricate non-existent evidence. ”

    The author apparently has not read his book on Goebbels.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  507. @seriousyl

    Irving indeed lost.
    He did not foresee that in civil lawsuits the party wins that can buy the larger number of experts.

  508. @Bardon Kaldian

    Pity you did not read
    Otto Wagener, ‘Hitler aus nächster Nähe, Aufzeichnungen eines Vertrauten 1929-1932, Hrsg. Henry A. Turner’, 1987, Kiel,