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The Covid Debate: to Vaxx or Not to Vaxx
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Beginning late last year, several of our regular columnists became vocal anti-vaxxers with regard to the new Covid vaccines, and as a result our website was swarmed by their zealous adherents, who soon began pushing their determined message on entirely unrelated threads. This greatly irritated me, and I made increasing efforts to drive them away. This is not an anti-vaxx webzine, and I was concerned that it might become perceived as such.

I didn’t know or care anything about the vaxx issue one way or the other, and was disturbed that so many seemingly rational people had suddenly become obsessed by that topic. Eventually I agreed to do a lengthy Q&A with longtime columnist Mike Whitney, one of our strongest anti-vaxx voices, which ran 9,000 words and was published two weeks ago:

The piece proved extremely popular, not only generating strong traffic, but quickly accumulating a huge number of comments. Many of the anti-vaxxers naturally didn’t appreciate my position and why I’d published such a long and harsh critique of their views, so I tried to explain my motives in one of my comments:

Hordes of anti-vaxxers had begun descending upon this website a few months ago, probably because some of my regular columnists had begun running anti-vaxx articles. As a result, those same anti-vaxxers began cluttering up the comment-threads of other articles, including my own, that had absolutely no connection to vaxxing. So I told them to get lost and had their off-topic comments trashed to drive them away, telling them they were all a bunch of nuts, and saying the same thing, somewhat more politely, to my anti-vaxx columnists.

Mike Whitney, who’s very strongly in the anti-vaxx camp, was disturbed at my views and suggested he do a Q&A with me to thrash things out, and I said I’d be glad to do that.

When I write my own articles, especially the long ones that run 9,000 words or more, they require an enormous amount of reading and thought, and usually take weeks of sustained effort. But with the Q&A I didn’t bother with any of that, but just replied straight away to his questions. The whole thing only took me a few hours, and now gives me a perfect excuse to henceforth trash all the off-topic anti-vaxx comments everywhere else.

Although I’d viewed the article and its accompanying discussion as a long-term holding-pen for the anti-vaxxers, their energetic response soon overwhelmed my plans, with nearly 1,700 comments and over 280,000 words making the thread so huge and sluggish that I had to close it down a couple of days ago. This partially defeated my original purpose, and while awaiting some new article on their favored topic, the agitated anti-vaxxers have once again begun spilling over into other, mostly unrelated threads, including those of my own articles.

I also finally had a chance to take a closer look at more of the original thread, and although a large fraction of the material appeared as worthless as I’d expected, some of it seemed much more reasonable. In particular, the discussion had attracted the focused attention of a very erudite moderate anti-vaxxer calling himself “Raches,” who personally contributed dozens of rather long comments, totaling a remarkable 23,000 words. Much of his effort was soon directed towards rebuking and debunking the more extreme, ignorant, and conspiratorial anti-vaxxers, and he seemed to establish amicable relations with several well-informed and moderate pro-vaxxers.

Early on, he urged me to allow our publication to become an important resources in the vaxxing controversy, allowing an informed debate between the more reasonable pro- and anti-vaxxers:

In both the pro-vaxx and anti-vaxx camps, there are those who are most interested in leveraging the vaccine issue to grind a political axe, or in winning a debate at all costs. In both camps, there are also those who are sincerely interested in factually correct information, in objective, dispassionate science, and in protecting their and their families’ health. If you cut diagonally across both camps, then you can draw together the latter, and knock the fulcrum out from beneath the political lever being exercised by the former.

So, depoliticize the Covid vaccine debate. Run a series of feature articles from level-headed authors summarizing the best scientific arguments from both sides, at a level that is accessible to intelligent people who are neither medical experts nor biological researchers—with suitably cited references for those who wish to seek more in-depth information. You do need to bring out the best: I think that persons who are capable of comprehending a myriad-word American Pravda article can probably see through the old propaganda trick of pitting the best from one side against mediocre strawmen on the other.

In the ensuing discussions, impose a moderation policy that excludes empty invective and ad hominem fallacies—while recognizing that cogently presented ad hominem arguments are not always fallacious.

At the time, I summarily rejected the proposal, since my original intent had been to drive away the anti-vaxxers, or at least confine them to a sharply restricted area:

Absolutely not. The last thing I want is to attract more crazy anti-vaxxers to this website. Frankly, I wish they’d all go away to LifesiteNews or wherever. The main reason I agreed to this Q&A was that the anti-vaxxers were angry that their off-topic nonsense was getting trashed on other threads, so I thought it only fair to occasionally given them a thread where they could rant and rave a little.

But in reading through portions of the very long thread, I also noticed his appraisal of other issues of much greater interest to me, which I’ll admit I found both quite acute and obviously rather gratifying:

An interesting datapoint: In early 2020, I firmly believed in the theory of natural zoonotic origins; and when I first saw Ron Unz’s bioweapon theory, I feared that Mr. Unz may have gone off in the deep end. The only reason why I did not promptly dismiss Mr. Unz as a crackpot, just as I dismissed many stereotypical crackpots then screaming “bioweapon!”, was the credibility that Mr. Unz had established from his research of matters that I myself had spent painstaking years of endless hours investigating…

I am still not totally convinced by Mr. Unz’s bioweapon theory, although it looks to me increasingly probable that it is not only correct, but one of the most important works of journalism in the history of the world. I do not exaggerate. He is researching an existential threat. I have prior awareness of credible allegations of hidden bioweapons programs, which I never investigated myself. Well, Mr. Unz may well be on to something enormous—in the full sense of enormity…

And after thinking things over a bit, I decided that perhaps the suggestion would be the best approach after all, just as long as the number of vaxxing threads remains sufficiently small as to not overshadow the main issues covered by the website. Such articles would also make it much easier to reasonably restrict discussions of the vaxxing topic to these particular locations, preventing them from creeping into other, unrelated topics.

Moreover, since I personally don’t know or care much about the topic, I won’t be contributing much myself, and can just allow the various flavors of vaxxers and anti-vaxxers to try to settle their own differences, in effect making this a dedicated open thread.

So those interested in arguing about vaxxing should feel free to congregate here and debate the topic to their heart’s content, or at least until the thread becomes so extremely long and sluggish I have to close it down in turn. However, please be warned that the ensuing discussion will be moderated much more strictly than usual, with crude insults, totally ignorant nonsense, or crazy remarks considerably less likely to be published.

 
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  1. I got myself vaxxed (for COVID). My reason? I’m obese.

  2. Tom Verso says:

    Mr. Unz,
    Thank you so very much for your commitment to rational thinking generally on all subjects and this VAXX issue in particular.

    But frankly,

    I don’t understand your editorial problem.

    You are highly educated in science and you can easily ascertain the difference between comments that are informed by references to competent scientific credentialed authorities and objective statistical database research and analysis.

    So what is the problem?

    You are the editor. Publish only those articles and comments that meet the 500 year history of the scientific method:

    – accurate and verifiable measurement,
    – logically valid testable hypothesis,
    – published results of hypothesis testing,
    – logically valid critiques of the testing

  3. Hans says:

    They’re poison, Ron. And, yes, there are conspiracies.

  4. BuelahMan says:

    Anyone willing to look at the extensive data and the many professional medical experts who are raving against this jab and still push it is a fool and is dangerous.

    BTW: I was visiting here before the Covid scamdemic started. Nor do I “zealously” adhere to any of the writers.

    • Replies: @Rev. Spooner
  5. dearieme says:

    I have no time for people who are anti-vaxx in general.

    People who are against the Covid jabs specifically, though, might have a case. In particular, people who try to balance risks vs benefits, and distinguish benefits according to the age and health of the patient, seem to me to be on absolutely the right track, whatever the conclusion they eventually draw.

    Declaration of interest: we have both, rather reluctantly, taken the gamble of having the jab (Pfizer). Anyone who doesn’t think it’s a gamble has missed the point – everything in life is a gamble.

  6. Roger says:

    I commented (#19) at length on the original article and subsequently engaged in a pleasant conversation with one other commenter. I appreciate the opportunity to do so and would like to express my gratitude to Ron Unz for making this possible. I should mention that my comment tilted in favor of Mike Whitney and raised a number of arguments against Ron’s position.

    Who is right? Sorting out the truth is what debates are for and I strongly encourage him to continue the work of providing the soapbox.

    “However, please be warned that the ensuing discussion will be moderated much more strictly than usual, with crude insults, totally ignorant nonsense, or crazy remarks considerably less likely to be published.”

    I support the warning shown without reserve. I would even back a policy of not allowing any type of this literary garbage to be published at all…anywhere. I would not hesitate to wield the editor’s pen much more aggressively in the interest of raising the overall quality of the website. There is no good reason for allowing some persons of low quality to drag the conversation through the mud.

    Mr. Unz, you want to drive them away? Tighten the filter. Refuse to grant them the time of day. The Unz Review will be the better for it.

    • Agree: Raches, emersonreturn
    • Disagree: Nancy
  7. Emslander says:

    You’ve settled on a false dichotomy, but that’s probably off-topic. It’s a much bigger issue. It includes the question of whether dangerous medicines were developed for one set of political purposes and are now being forced on people for another set of political purposes.

    I get all kinds of vaccines, including annual flu shots. I’m not anti-vaxx and resent my refusal to take mRNA doses as being a part of that movement.

  8. The problem with vaxxing is Uncertainty and the Certaintists on both sides of the issue. If you are young vaxxing may not be worth the risk (99% chance of surviving). If you are old with co-morbidities, vaxxing may be an option but also has equal or greater risk than the virus, depending on the condition of the person. Vaxxing is a medical decision and medicine is about the individual condition and genetics of each person, not about ideology. Fortunately, there finally is another option (not HCQ or Ivermectin). It is monoclonal antibody infusion that for the elderly can prevent hospitalization if done in first 10 days.
    The RNA jabs do not meet the criteria of informed consent yet. No one can say with great certainty one way or another that it is the preferred option in all situations. Big Pharma wants to shift everyone into taking RNA jabs to prevent flu, virus and cancer. But they are not proven yet. However, many young people who have had C-19 are evangelical in persuading others to get the jab to prevent the worst case scenario of hospitalization and intubation. But, once again, this is an individual decision and not something that can be advocated across the board for everyone.
    If I were unvaxxed and older, I would prepare for the worst by lining up a doctor who can prescribe prophylaxis and scout out the best hospital with a top notch C-19 team. You can’t wait around 10 days with deceptive symptoms because the spike protein on the Delta Variant is coated with sugar so the immune system does not detect it. If I were young, I would avoid situations with close crowds in enclosed indoor environments and with known vaxxed who are super spreaders.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  9. Why I won’t vaxx – unless threatened or coerced.

    CARL SAGAN’S BULLSHIT DETECTION KIT

    Carl Sagan was one of the Twentieth Century’s great critical thinkers. His peers called Sagan the patron saint of reason and the master of scientific balance between blind belief, skepticism, questioning, and openness. Carl Sagan had the chops to back it up. He was a cosmologist, astrophysicist, philosopher, humanist, and prolific author as well as being the architect behind SETI — the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence. Sagan was also good at detecting bullshit.

    I just read Carl Sagan’s book The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark. It was published in 1996 shortly before Sagan’s untimely death from myelodysplasia. In it, he debunks superstition, some organized religion beliefs, psychics, sorcery, faith healing, UFOs, witchcraft, and demons — especially the fire-breathing dragon in his garage. One of Sagan’s chapters is The Fine Art of Baloney Detection. He was profanity-correct twenty-five years ago. Today, we know he’d call it “Bullshit”.

    In The Demon-Haunted World, Carl Sagan takes a hard run at paid product endorsements by unscrupulous scientists who “betray contempt for the intelligence of their customers and introduce an insidious corruption of popular attitudes about scientific objectivity”. Sagan also predicted the rise of fake news and the down-slide of political ethics and honesty. It made me wonder what he’d say about Trump.
    Carl Sagan said that “through their training, scientists are equipped with a baloney (bullshit) detection kit — a set of cognitive tools and techniques that fortify the mind against the penetration of falsehoods”.

    Here is a list of what’s inside Carl Sagan’s bullshit detection kit:

    [MORE]

    1. Wherever possible there must be independent confirmation of the “facts.”

    2. Encourage substantive debate on the evidence by knowledgeable proponents of all points of view.

    3. Arguments from authority carry little weight — “authorities” have made mistakes in the past. They will do so again in the future. Perhaps a better way to say it is that in science there are no authorities; at most, there are experts.

    4. Spin more than one hypothesis. If there’s something to be explained, think of all the different ways in which it could be explained. Then think of tests by which you might systematically disprove each of the alternatives. What survives, the hypothesis that resists disproof in this Darwinian selection among “multiple working hypotheses,” has a much better chance of being the right answer than if you had simply run with the first idea that caught your fancy.

    5. Try not to get overly attached to a hypothesis just because it’s yours. It’s only a way station in the pursuit of knowledge. Ask yourself why you like the idea. Compare it fairly with the alternatives. See if you can find reasons for rejecting it. If you don’t, others will.

    6. Quantify. If whatever it is you’re explaining has some measure, some numerical quantity attached to it, you’ll be much better able to discriminate among competing hypotheses. What is vague and qualitative is open to many explanations. Of course there are truths to be sought in the many qualitative issues we are obliged to confront, but finding them is more challenging.

    7. If there’s a chain of argument, every link in the chain must work (including the premise) — not just most of them.

    8. Occam’s Razor. This convenient rule-of-thumb urges us when faced with two hypotheses that explain the data equally well to choose the simpler.

    9. Always ask whether the hypothesis can be, at least in principle, falsified. Propositions that are untestable, unfalsifiable are not worth much. Consider the grand idea that our Universe and everything in it is just an elementary particle — an electron, say — in a much bigger Cosmos. But if we can never acquire information from outside our Universe, is not the idea incapable of disproof? You must be able to check assertions out. Inveterate skeptics must be given the chance to follow your reasoning, to duplicate your experiments and see if they get the same result.

    The Fine Art of Bullshit Detection drills deeper.

    Carl Sagan writes, “Just as important as learning these helpful tools and techniques, is unlearning and avoiding the most common pitfalls of common sense. In addition to teaching us what to do when evaluating a claim to knowledge, any good baloney detection kit must also teach us what not to do. It helps us recognize the most common and perilous fallacies of logic and rhetoric. Many good examples can be found in religion and politics, because their practitioners are so often obliged to justify two contradictory propositions”.

    Carl Sagan goes on to admonish the most common and perilous pitfalls — many rooted in our chronic discomfort with ambiguity — and he uses examples of each in action.

    1. Ad hominem — Latin for “to the man,” attacking the arguer and not the argument (e.g., The Reverend Dr. Smith is a known Biblical fundamentalist, so her objections to evolution need not be taken seriously)

    2. Argument from authority (e.g., President Richard Nixon should be re-elected because he has a secret plan to end the war in Southeast Asia — but because it was secret, there was no way for the electorate to evaluate it on its merits; the argument amounted to trusting him because he was President: a mistake, as it turned out)

    3. Argument from adverse consequences (e.g., A God meting out punishment and reward must exist, because if He didn’t, society would be much more lawless and dangerous — perhaps even ungovernable. Or: The defendant in a widely publicized murder trial must be found guilty; otherwise, it will be an encouragement for other men to murder their wives)

    4. Appeal to ignorance — the claim that whatever has not been proved false must be true, and vice versa (e.g., There is no compelling evidence that UFOs are not visiting the Earth; therefore UFOs exist — and there is intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe. Or: There may be seventy kazillion other worlds, but not one is known to have the moral advancement of the Earth, so we’re still central to the Universe.) This impatience with ambiguity can be criticized in the phrase: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    5. Special pleading, often to rescue a proposition in deep rhetorical trouble (e.g., How can a merciful God condemn future generations to torment because, against orders, one woman induced one man to eat an apple? Special plead: you don’t understand the subtle Doctrine of Free Will. Or: How can there be an equally godlike Father, Son, and Holy Ghost in the same Person? Special plead: You don’t understand the Divine Mystery of the Trinity. Or: How could God permit the followers of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam — each in their own way enjoined to heroic measures of loving kindness and compassion — to have perpetrated so much cruelty for so long? Special plead: You don’t understand Free Will again. And anyway, God moves in mysterious ways.)

    6. Begging the question, also called assuming the answer (e.g., We must institute the death penalty to discourage violent crime. But does the violent crime rate in fact fall when the death penalty is imposed? Or: The stock market fell yesterday because of a technical adjustment and profit-taking by investors — but is there any independent evidence for the causal role of “adjustment” and profit-taking; have we learned anything at all from this purported explanation?)

    7. Observational selection, also called the enumeration of favorable circumstances, or as the philosopher Francis Bacon described it, counting the hits and forgetting the misses (e.g., A state boasts of the Presidents it has produced, but is silent on its serial killers) statistics of small numbers — a close relative of observational selection (e.g., “They say 1 out of every 5 people is Chinese. How is this possible? I know hundreds of people, and none of them is Chinese. Yours truly.” Or: “I’ve thrown three sevens in a row. Tonight I can’t lose.”)

    8. Misunderstanding of the nature of statistics (e.g., President Dwight Eisenhower expressing astonishment and alarm on discovering that fully half of all Americans have below average intelligence);

    9. Inconsistency (e.g., Prudently plan for the worst of which a potential military adversary is capable, but thriftily ignore scientific projections on environmental dangers because they’re not “proved.” Or: Attribute the declining life expectancy in the former Soviet Union to the failures of communism many years ago, but never attribute the high infant mortality rate in the United States (now highest of the major industrial nations) to the failures of capitalism. Or: Consider it reasonable for the Universe to continue to exist forever into the future, but judge absurd the possibility that it has infinite duration into the past);

    10. Non sequitur — Latin for “It doesn’t follow” (e.g., Our nation will prevail because God is great. But nearly every nation pretends this to be true; the German formulation was “Gott mit uns”). Often those falling into the non sequitur fallacy have simply failed to recognize alternative possibilities;

    11. Post hoc, ergo propter hoc — Latin for “It happened after, so it was caused by” (e.g., Jaime Cardinal Sin, Archbishop of Manila: “I know of … a 26-year-old who looks 60 because she takes [contraceptive] pills.” Or: Before women got the vote, there were no nuclear weapons)

    12. Meaningless question (e.g., What happens when an irresistible force meets an immovable object? But if there is such a thing as an irresistible force there can be no immovable objects, and vice versa)

    13. Excluded middle, or false dichotomy — considering only the two extremes in a continuum of intermediate possibilities (e.g., “Sure, take his side; my husband’s perfect; I’m always wrong.” Or: “Either you love your country or you hate it.” Or: “If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem”)

    14. Short-term vs. long-term — a subset of the excluded middle, but so important I’ve pulled it out for special attention (e.g., We can’t afford programs to feed malnourished children and educate pre-school kids. We need to urgently deal with crime on the streets. Or: Why explore space or pursue fundamental science when we have so huge a budget deficit?);

    15. Slippery slope, related to excluded middle (e.g., If we allow abortion in the first weeks of pregnancy, it will be impossible to prevent the killing of a full-term infant. Or, conversely: If the state prohibits abortion even in the ninth month, it will soon be telling us what to do with our bodies around the time of conception);

    16. Confusion of correlation and causation (e.g., A survey shows that more college graduates are homosexual than those with lesser education; therefore education makes people gay. Or: Andean earthquakes are correlated with closest approaches of the planet Uranus; therefore — despite the absence of any such correlation for the nearer, more massive planet Jupiter — the latter causes the former)

    17. Straw man — caricaturing a position to make it easier to attack (e.g., Scientists suppose that living things simply fell together by chance — a formulation that willfully ignores the central Darwinian insight, that Nature ratchets up by saving what works and discarding what doesn’t. Or — this is also a short-term/long-term fallacy — environmentalists care more for snail darters and spotted owls than they do for people)

    18. Suppressed evidence, or half-truths (e.g., An amazingly accurate and widely quoted “prophecy” of the assassination attempt on President Reagan is shown on television; but — an important detail — was it recorded before or after the event? Or: These government abuses demand revolution, even if you can’t make an omelette without breaking some eggs. Yes, but is this likely to be a revolution in which far more people are killed than under the previous regime? What does the experience of other revolutions suggest? Are all revolutions against oppressive regimes desirable and in the interests of the people?)

    19. Weasel words (e.g., The separation of powers of the U.S. Constitution specifies that the United States may not conduct a war without a declaration by Congress. On the other hand, Presidents are given control of foreign policy and the conduct of wars, which are potentially powerful tools for getting themselves re-elected. Presidents of either political party may therefore be tempted to arrange wars while waving the flag and calling the wars something else — “police actions,” “armed incursions,” “protective reaction strikes,” “pacification,” “safeguarding American interests,” and a wide variety of “operations,” such as “Operation Just Cause.” Euphemisms for war are one of a broad class of reinventions of language for political purposes. Talleyrand said, “An important art of politicians is to find new names for institutions which under old names have become odious to the public”)

    Carl Sagan ends the chapter with a necessary disclaimer:

    “Like all tools, the baloney (bullshit) detection kit can be misused, applied out of context, or even employed as a rote alternative to thinking. But applied judiciously, it can make all the difference in the world — not least in evaluating our own arguments before we present them to others.
     

  10. Anonymous[540] • Disclaimer says:

    “This is not an anti-vaxx webzine, and I was concerned that it might become perceived as such.”

    Why would you be so concerned about it? You host plenty of opinions that go against the mainstream dogma, on topics like race, Jews, gender differences, American imperialism etc. Why are you so preoccupied with DEFENDING the mainstream point of view on this one particular subject? Why are you so curtly dismissive of the dozens of well-reasoned anti-vaccine arguments presented here, many of them quoting actual scientists and doctors?

    The medical establishment (both the government agencies and the private corporations) is just as much a part of the power structure of Western countries and globalist institutions as the political establishment or the media. Their interests are connected every step of the way. Why do you have such blind faith in the former while being skeptical of the latter?

  11. Anon[402] • Disclaimer says:

    My body, my choice. Natural Law theory informs my outlook here.

    • Replies: @Anon
  12. gottlieb says:

    Thanks for the opportunity. It’s too bad to be labeled an “anti-vaxxer” when no vaccines exist. The ‘jabs’ are not vaccines as much as they are new fangled flu shots which do not prevent the contracting of disease, but only mitigate symptoms. Additionally, the fatality rate, officially, is 0.2% or LOWER. It’s impossible to know as the PCR tests are a failed (or exactly what they wanted) way to evaluate whether someone is ill. Indeed, the CDC is pulling the Emergency Use Authorization for the PCR test at the end of the year (while still using the booga-booga to generate fear using a failed testing system as long as they can) because the test is unable to distinguish between Covid, influenza or cold (hence no flu last year). We don’t know the numbers because the numbers’ generation of ‘cases’ is a fraud.

    And it seems rather odd that folks would run to ‘vax’ with new technologies that have never been approved before for a low-fatality ‘disease’ whose origin is completely open to question; lab/nature, accident/bio warfare. Doesn’t it behoove us to get to the bottom of a ‘novel’ virus before running to corporations who’ve been found guilty over and over for fraud to ‘heal us’? Where is the common sense and critical thinking? And what about the natural immunity that belies the idea of ‘novel.’

    And just like 911 isn’t is suspicious that the folks who benefited most are the ones who wet-dreamed and billionaire-planned for just such an eventuality?

    These are all tip of the iceberg data points. The science isn’t settled, and the players are greed-mongers. There is nothing about this situation that can be trusted. Indeed until there is ‘truth’ there can be no trust.

  13. Feuerbach says:

    I am no virologist. I follow Geert Vanden Bossche because his predictions have been accurate so far.

    https://www.geertvandenbossche.org

    His articles are technical but the TLDR I get is this:

    1. Vaccinated people are a breeding ground for new variants . Due to natural selection these variants become increasingly immune to the spike-protein directed antibodies (S-Ab) produced by the vaccines.

    2. Both vaccinated and unvaccinated will suffer from the new variants. Unvaccinated will be more severely affected as long as vaccines still offer some protection.

    3. Eventually the virus may reach full S-Ab immunity. Then the vaccinated will see higher levels of sickness and mortality because the dysfunctional antibodies produced by the vaccine prevent natural antibodies from binding to the virus.

    • Thanks: Alfred
    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
    , @miha
  14. anon[204] • Disclaimer says:

    This is why Unz.com is the best discourse on the web and the only site in compliance with Article 19.

    Reasonable people can differ on crucial aspects of the vaccine efficacy question. Here we see two domain experts disagreeing about the effects of mutation on immunity.

    https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/

  15. gay troll says:

    This is not an anti-vaxx webzine

    So, even though you reject CDC/MSM talking points about the origin of the coronavirus, you continue to accept their talking points about the pandemic, including its severity, and the attitude that the severity of COVID 19 is what requires economic shutdown, social distancing, face coverings, vaccines and now vaccine mandates and vaccine passports (and tens of $billions in profit for big pharma).

    Ron lumps opposition to the COVID jabs with all anti vaccine activism. This ignores the rather obvious fact that the jabs are a brand new medical technology. They have not been studied in humans. They were given EUA on the basis of two months of data provided by the jab manufacturers themselves. To ask Americans to put a novel medical technology in their bodies to protect themselves from a bad cold virus is a total departure from established science. Without sufficient data no one has a right to declare themselves scientifically motivated, much less cajole and coerce the public to agree.

    Ron’s ignorance of this issue is his typical treatment of facts that contradict his narrative. In the same way he endeavoured to depict the BSL lab leaks at Fort Detrick in 2019 as a conspiracy theory. Ron is very much a part of the power structure pushing for fascism on the back of a falsified health crisis. The jabs are unlike any other vaccine ever administered to humans, and to lump them in with all other vaccines is intellectually dishonest.

    • Agree: kali, Theophrastus, Kapyong
    • Replies: @Drew
    , @PigletOmlet
  16. Gary says:

    Much of the discussion on your website is as meaningless as commenting and debating about
    what next meal will be like on the sinking Titanic. The Vaccine Genocide of humankind
    will usher in the much heralded Great Reset making most verbiage on your website
    sound like the babble of an idiot on the Titanic.

    A hurricane is hitting us and you’re complaining about your conversation being
    interrupted. Such hubris. Read the article “The 1918 Rockefeller-US Army Worldwide
    Pandemic” on your website. It says it all.

    • Thanks: thotmonger
  17. There is a place for those reluctant to swallow Big Pharma’s benevolent intentions. Merci Beaucoup Ron!

    Let’s do like in France now. I’m bringing fruit juice for the children we want to keep healthy (why not promote an agriculture that would provide vitamines, minerals, trace elements…) and organic wine and local living beers for the adults we want to recover from the traumas inflicted by psychopaths and sociopaths ( at the time of my parents, they just called them ‘sadistic’. Adults can have some juice to… Pies, fruits are welcome to.

    Maybe, we shall take some time to ponder about what is natural health, how to enhance it and not being considered defaulted individuals who need pharmafia to save us and dumb us down with the covidian religion and it’s insane rituals.

    Respect

    One of my best friend has learned last week that his 5 years old child has a weird brain cancer and that he has little chance even though the professor in charge of him decided to try immunotherapy. The problem is that my friend, refusing to be injected Bourla’s (or whatever godfather of the pharmafia) spike proteins witch soup, won’t be able to access the hospital at that point. The guy is a reservist Gendarme and an ex-diplomat.

    • Thanks: Alfred
  18. A government that would acquiesce to ,or worse participate in 911, among other dark deeds, now demands you take your jab cuz its for your own good. Mr Unz you can have my jab and a box of masks laying around here somewhere if you think it will do any good. “Science” is as corruptible as as many another pursuit. Whatever happened to the once hot topic of AIDS? Just kinda drifted off into ether I guess. All kinds of “science” mixed up in the AIDS scare as well.

    • Replies: @Rev. Spooner
  19. Anon[730] • Disclaimer says:

    I would have preferred if the Vaccine was an Attenuated Strain vaccine that was “perfect” and non-leaky. The problem with leaky vaccines is they have the potential to breed stronger viruses (see Marek’s disease in chickens).

    We now see that boosters will be required. What will be health impacts of these boosters? Will the process of rolling out the booster be sustainable? What about cost?

    Why does the government not recognize natural immunity? I think these are all fair questions that our elected leaders should answer.

    At the end of the day, sometimes having a diverse strategy, where some people are vaxxed, some are not, may be the best option, instead of having blanket solutions and mandates and “one size fits all” thinking.

    Most people hold a diverse stock portfolio, and the US is a culturally diverse place, so a diverse Covid strategy would also fit.

  20. salience says:
    @Vergissmeinnicht

    “Persons at high risk”, and especially the immunodeficient might want to consider my analysis of the risk/benefit possibilities before getting injected. It is based on findings that “Balance and Timing of B and T Cell Activity Essential. The study suggests that both B and T cells must be involved to clear SARS-CoV-2 from the body, and also that T cells are unable to deal with the rapid rise in viral titer in this infection…
    B-Cells, T-Cells and mRNA Vaccines
    https://peterwebster.substack.com/p/b-cells-t-cells-and-mrna-vaccines

  21. salience says:
    @Bugey libre

    I’m in France too. From what I understand about the passe sanitaire to get into a hospital, a negative test at max 72 hours ago should suffice.

    • Replies: @Bugey libre
  22. This is not an anti-vaxx webzine, and I was concerned that it might become perceived as such.

    You’re concerned about how the UR is perceived? Do you know its reputation right now?

  23. salience says:

    To understand this affair, like others that have the -Gate suffix, it is a good start to:
    Follow the money
    and
    Follow the censorship.
    The rest should slowly crystallize around an understanding of these two features.
    I participated in the original thread, and recommended my article “Pandemic – The Next Big Thing”
    https://peterwebster.substack.com/p/pandemic-the-next-big-thing
    It took a close look at the money aspect. And thanks to Ron I was not censored here.
    The article quickly got over a thousand reads, so there really are a great many who know that “Something is happening here” but don’t quite know what it is. Yet. Want to know h0w it ends?
    https://peterwebster.substack.com/p/jab-berwacky

    • Replies: @sulu
  24. SteveK9 says:

    Ron, have you listened to any of the presentations by Dr. Robert Malone, who is not an ‘anti-vaxxer’ since he has primary responsibility for inventing mRNA vaccine technology in the 1980’s at Salk. Or, Dr. Michael Yeadon, formerly Vice President of Pfizer. These are only two of many highly-qualified Scientists pointing out potential serious issues with these treatments.

    Since you are a Scientist yourself here is a long and very recent presentation by Malone.

    https://rumble.com/vl0zpf-dr.-robert-malone-the-liberty-forum-8-10-2021.html?mref=23gga&mrefc=2

    These people are extremely hard to find, for reasons which are very clear to you. I am a Scientist myself and had a lot of experience in preclinical work for drug applications. From my point of view, virtually every rule we have followed for decades to develop ‘safe and effective’ treatments were thrown in the garbage. I’ve gotten used to it, but it has been truly shocking to me.

  25. Implying that an experimental medical procedure which changes a persons DNA and produces unknown long term effects is a “Vax” is disingenuous as it implies a vaccine application. Furthermore, labeling those who refuse to be subjected to this dangerous procedure “Anti-Vaxers” is a childish attempt to disparage them based on that false presumption.

    Dismissed…with prejudice.

    • Thanks: Thor Walhovd
  26. I recently learned a new word/concept: nocebo

    “a detrimental effect on health produced by psychological or psychosomatic factors such as negative expectations of treatment or prognosis.”

    In my perspective, the media around COVID has been so over-the-top, so committed to “flooding the field;” so dismissive of my personal judgment based on knowledge of myself; totally dismissive of natural immunity that scientists have observed for hundreds of years; disproportionate to what I was observing, as well as unbalanced in terms of giving legitimate counter-arguments a fair hearing, that my baloney detector smelled something rotten in Denmark.

    I am NOT a scientist nor particularly astute at applying cold logic to problems. However, in my life I have been sold rotten baloney and have been forced to live with the consequences.

    If I do NOT take the vaxx, I may get COVID. My chances of dying or suffering life-long harm from such an outcome are slim — based on my knowledge of my own health status and observation of others who have had the disease, and even considering the situation of a family member at whose bedside I sat for a month as machines breathed for him, his lungs having failed complicated by gross obesity (this was 4 years pre-COVID). [To #1, Vergissmeinnicht : vaccine is not going to solve your obesity & its other myriad harms to your body. My relative’s (pre-COVID) Death Certificate listed 3 causes of death: 1. Obesity, 2. Lung failure, 3. De-conditioning ]

    If I DO take the vaxx, a. untoward effects two or five years out are uncertain — we just do not know. As far as I know, the vaxx cannot be undone.
    b. Reports so far of negative effects from vaccination include many instances of blood clot: a blood clot almost killed me; if I experience another blood clot, it could kill me.

    My best judgment and knowledge persuades me to avoid vaccination.

    That politicians are attempting to force a medical treatment is one more factor provoking nocebo: when I have needed radical medical treatment, qualified experts who had gained my trust specifically diagnosed my condition; explained treatment options and my chances of surviving each option including the expected ongoing negative effects of treatment.
    The president of the US, or the governor of my state, declares that I may not enter X building or Y mode of transportation unless I take a medical treatment whose impacts on my life are uncertain. That’s a no-go for me.

    I’m likely one of those obnoxious anti-vaxxers Ron Unz deplores: I’ve read and viewed and referenced dozens of experts who have argued against vaccination.
    I’ve also listened to an even greater number of experts declare that it is my duty to get vaccinated, even if I have had the disease which, science seems to conclude, would have conveyed immunity. They have sternly warned against taking treatments other than vaccine to resist or cure the virus.

    I don’t trust this latter group, particularly since the media outlets that give them a platform have consistently and persistently failed to give an equal hearing to those with a contrary opinion.

    I can’t think of any argument that would persuade me to abandon the anti-vaxxer category.
    —- EXCEPT: to be banned from this Forum would be the hardest thing to endure. But still —

    • Thanks: kali, Nancy, RestiveUs, Charlie
    • Replies: @PigletOmlet
  27. Rahan says:

    The obvious thread to pull first is the lack of trad COVID vaccines in the West.

    The whole world is using a combination of the modern RNA or adenoviral spike protein serums and the trad vax, many made their own, including Turkey, Iran, Cuba, and Kazakhstan.

    Question: why does the West neither make its own trad vax for COVID, nor import any, at least from India which is an ally?

    Why are only the RNA serums (Pfeizer and Moderna) and spike protein vector shots (AstraZeneca and Johnson&Johnson) force upon the population? This is not an insignificant question. This is an invisible issue which once you start asking, everything else starts collapsing.

    There was a time of vaccine shortage, we all remember this. Countries fighting over shipments, screaming at providers for failing to ship over the ordered doses etc. Why did not at any point any member state of the EU or any institute in North America or any of the Five Eyes or their vassals do a quick trad vax? Turkey and Cuba could, but Austria or Virginia couldn’t? What? Come again?

    We are seeing now in front of our eyes the fancy vaccines losing relevancy as the virus “mutates”, and the establishment changing the narrative into constant “booster shots” and new vaccines, twice a year, once a month, “whatever it takes”. But still no move for a trad vax which has the side effects of a flu shot. Mindboggling.

    Especially when combined with the relentless lying, censoring, unpersoning, and cancelation of basic freedom, plus the very obvious “great reset” of society on a planetary level, it would take an incredible leap of faith that at the center of all the inefficiency and lying and obvious corruption, lies some fantastic RNA serum that will save the world.

    And they already admit it won’t. That instead you’ll just keep taking it for the rest of your life, otherwise you won’t be able to live in society, because they will punish you with starvation.

    Concerning Israel’s jab frenzy. For lovers of occult paranoia: ran the other day into a delightful theory about the six gorrillion obsession, which stands on a mystic Talmudic interpretation that “six millions need to die before Israel comes back for real and the Moshiach appears”…

    [MORE]

    The concept is that the “humane way” of faking the WWII numbers in order to fool YHVH didn’t work, so now their psychopathic elites are going for the real thing.

    They could be going for the six million mark for real this time. Those who remain will all have between 800 and 2800 goyim servants each who as has been foretold will own nothing and be happy.

    • Agree: InnerCynic, Robert Bruce
    • Replies: @InnerCynic
    , @Robert Bruce
  28. @Roger

    But Roger, who are “them”?

    Please look back at my comments and tell me whether I should be allowed to resume on this thread asking questions (many still pending), raising concerns, and opining.

    Here, I’ll even paraphrase:

    1. I haven’t decided to use any of the Pfizer, etc., products, which haven’t been — and reportedly now can’t be due to offering them to the control groups — the subject of standard FDA phased trials to inform (dis)approval. The unprecedented push by the Establishment for everyone to shut up and get with the program isn’t going to get me there any sooner. But I am trying to learn and keep an open mind, and the drugstore is minutes away if I decide to do so.

    2. Mr. Unz’s (i) willful disregard/dismissal/disdain for heterodox comments and (ii) candidly uncritical acceptance of mainstream sources directly contradict his stated principles as both a writer and publisher. It’s been a Revusky-worthy aberration, perhaps triggered by heavy emotional investment in his writing about provenance; Mr. Unz seems to feel threatened by skepticism about the seriousness of the virus and/or the efficacy of the Pfizer, etc., products, as though doubting either somehow diminishes the importance of his theories about Covid as biowarfare. His remarkably casual, personal decision to use the Pfizer product may have made his thinking even more rigid.

    3. Mr. Unz should state plainly whether he supports mandatory injections of the Pfizer, etc., products for others.

    So, Roger, should someone like me be welcomed here?

  29. @dearieme

    Sound and stable comment. Generally speaking, I’m pro-vaccines. I’ll be getting my annual flu shot in October. The mRNA technology is not new, and was developed by scientists like Dr. Robert Malone to fight cancer. For COVID 19, however, the evidence, especially from Israel and the UK, is showing that the mRNA vaccine is “leaky” and non-sterilizing. The mRNA vaccine was sold by the politicized public health sector as the only way out of the pandemic. No vaccines are perfect, but the public health sector must come clean with the public: clinical trials before public release were inadequate, especially when it comes to subgroups; the one-size fits all approach pushed by the heavy-handed, media darling doctors and scientists is stupid, dangerous, and cruel.

  30. JVC says:

    The thing I do not understand is why there is such insistence on the universal jab. Especially since it is unproven, experimental tech, and the disease is not all that threatening except to those who are on shaky ground to begin with. The couple of previous mRNA “vaccines” that were animal tested did not turn out too well for the animals. So the question is why–what is really going on?? I have read many theories both by well established medical and science people, and a few laymen also. The only conclusion I have been able to reach is that I will do what I can to maintain a healthy immune system and remain in the control group. It is after all a personal choice no matter what an increasingly totalitarian government says.

    • Thanks: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
    , @Nancy
  31. Tony Hall says:
    @Emslander

    Generally agree. Its an awkward dichotomy. The imposition of the pro- and anti-vaxx is a propagandist’s device about as crude as pretending the content of “the Holocaust” can be decided with a thumbs up or thumbs down approach. Its a dubious subject to be constrained within a yes or no framework. To me a more appropriate dichotomy exists between those vaccinated and those unvaccinated with the COVID jabs. This distinction is deeply biological and raises a host of profound new issues for society, many of which are genuinely precedent-setting in their significance.

  32. @Rahan

    As people have sarcastically said elsewhere… it’s the “holo-cough”

    • LOL: Skeptikal
    • Replies: @Rahan
    , @2stateshmustate
  33. I’m grateful for any forum that offers the opportunity for debate. I don’t have to agree with everyone nor everything to appreciate that more avenues for more speech allows us to reach the truth. The fact that Facebook Messenger wouldn’t let me post links from UNZ to my friends and family was a sure sign that someone didn’t like what was being posted here and that told me there was something worth knowing about if the tech vermin were demonizing it. I’ve never trusted any entity that seeks to silence, coerce, ridicule or steer me where I don’t wish to be led. That smacks of an agenda. And when the chief liars of the world are telling you to “trust us”… well… you’d have to be a suicidal fool to believe them.

  34. Andreas says:

    There was a time when vaccines were universally considered good. I think of the virtual eradication of polio and small pox. Vaccines were the product of doctors and scientists motivated by genuine service to humanity. Vaccines were administered in an atmosphere of trust. No one even considered ulterior motives, much less politics. This was the collective consciousness surrounding vaccines.

    The emergence of Big Pharma and the Medical Industrial Complex has destroyed this trust by introducing the profit motive as a factor when determining the actual need or efficacy for any medicine. The demonstrable collusion of politicians with these leviathans has further eroded trust by the politicization of what at one time was a common sense health decision between people and their doctors.

    In the covid era, there is also the speed at which these vaccines have been rushed out the door. That necessarily means the testing has been inadequate.

    This is evidenced by pointing to the apparent absence of any discussion or even mention of the gold standard for medicinal testing, that is the ‘double-blind’ study, when it comes to the covid vaccines.

    So here we have 1) the profit motive, 2) politics and 3) an embarrassing lack of testing. In conjunction, these three factors point to greater uncertainty than many people are comfortable with when putting a strange needle into their arm.

    • Replies: @Mustapha Mond
  35. skrik says:
    @Emslander

    to Vaxx or Not to Vaxx

    .. has been made [one suspects both stupidly and deliberately] from a simple “Der” into a “F-IW!”

    1. The “Der:” SARS-CoV-2 can and does kill; it ‘lurks’ and can be ‘innocently’ caught from an infected somebody sneezing nearby. Sooo, you’d be a fool if you didn’t.

    2. The “F-IW!” [Freedom – I won’t]: We [in ‘the West’] live in supposed democracies, where, as fully and fairly informed voters, we select candidates to represent us, who then go on to implement the will of the majority whilst protecting the interests of the minority. In addition, we have ‘the market’ where, as equally fully and fairly informed consumers, we supposedly have a ‘free’ choice.

    Not happening. In the 1st place, for any vaccine [and *especially* the new-fangled = never been deployed mRNA ones] they needed EUAs [emergency use authorisations] which can only be granted when there is no effective treatment available, so they *deliberately* and effectively universally prevented Drs from deploying things like HCQ and Ivermectin, both long in approved use.

    Then depending on jurisdiction, ‘they’ [our rulers, now gone anti-democratically authoritarian *dictators*] decided for us, which vaccines they would purchase.

    Finally, the dictators are trying to force their anti-democratic choices upon us, and *nobody* can give a guarantee of performance, let alone indemnifying for any damage we, the people, may suffer.

    Suggestions:

    1. As orchardist says above, cut out the bullshit. [*One* deliberate lie kills *all* credibility.]

    2. Offer us a full and free *choice*, novel [who knows how dangerous ‘down the road’] mRNA as well as AZ, Russian Sputnik V, Chinese Sinovac and so on, *but* provide full and fair information about all, and fairly ‘revisit’ HCQ and Ivermectin etc.. *AND* give us an *effective* performance guarantee/indemnity. rgds

    • Thanks: Mark G.
    • Replies: @acementhead
  36. Dumbo says:

    Hmmm…

    Well, I’m no expert on vaccines or viruses, but I notice a few things:

    – An extraordinary push for vaccines, absurd claims like “100% safe”, “safe for pregnant women and children”, I don’t remember any other supposed medication that was promoted in such a crazy way.

    – Lots of useless, almost random authoritarian measures like “green passes”, “masks”, “lockdowns”, “social distancing”, that cause infinite misery and social division, but none of which work to actually contain the transmission, for reasons explained by many doctors and specialists. See the video of Dr. Dan Stock, among others, he explains it quite well, I thought. Also the study by Ioannidis et al.

    – And yet, many people who took the vaccine, died of Covid anyway. It seems in the end, the vaccine does not stop the spread, and may not not even stop disease or death. I’m starting to wonder what is it that it actually does.

  37. Legitimate science isn’t based on an authoritarian dictates from government.

    True science looks at real data….and changes as more information is revealed.

    The scientific method is based on trial and error and making adjustments and testing assumptions.

    Science is always changing based on new data.

    Science isn’t afraid of debate and discussion.

    It’s odd (and frightening) that the government allowed people to die by refusing to allow doctors to use Ivermectin and HDQ, etc., and instead murdered people by putting them on ventilators.

    It’s also odd the way they claim that the gene therapy is the only method to fight covid, when 80% of people have ZERO symptoms, and the overall IFR is .2%.
    If you’re under 65 and fairly healthy it’s unlikely that covid would kill you.
    Forcing children to take the gene therapy is malicious and insane as kids have near zero risk of death from covid. Mandating that everyone must take the vaccine is a violation of basic human rights.

    And natural immunity is absolutely superior to the gene therapy as well.

    The profit motive of the drug companies is also a factor that makes you go hmmm….

    I fail to see how I am a threat to people who’ve taken the jab. If they believe in the vaccine they should have no fear of the unvaccinated.

  38. Not everyone who rejects the vax is an idiot. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath…

    https://www.minareport.com/who-is-not-getting-vaccinated-people-with-phds/

    Also, everyone, you may want to read this just to edumacate yourself about the entire topic to a degree that is not available via the conventional news. It’s an upwind sail, but if you take the trouble to look up some of the key terms, your understanding may grow and you may benefit. This is not for the IQ = 100 crowd but you don’t need an IQ = 145 either. Very worthwhile (in my estimation).

    https://ijvtpr.com/index.php/IJVTPR/article/view/23/51

    • Replies: @Liza
  39. Cry foul says:

    Mr. Unz

    It seems to be that rabid racists have truly found found an outlet on this site to air their hate and divisiveness. As much as 40-45 % per week have to do with this subject and it is growing. Don’t the editors realize this imbalance? It is way too many articles on the same subject. One is now reduced to just two writers to avoid them.

  40. Dutch Boy says:
    @gottlieb

    Alex Berenson has shown pretty conclusively that the Covid jabs are failing already all over the world and in particular in heavily-vaccinated countries like Israel and Britain. The authorities are trying to coerce people with low risk into accepting an experimental treatment with unknown long-term effects that is already failing after six months. It’s nuts.

    • Agree: follyofwar, Alfred
    • Replies: @Mustapha Mond
  41. Blankaerd says:

    For a man who wrote a lengthy article about the origins of COVID, as well as on the extensive biological warfare campaign the US waged on its enemies as well as its own citizens, I was quite surprised that you dismissed anti-vaxxers out of hand. Not just that, but to also use denigrating language that you typically do not even use for people who hold far more silly or even dangerous beliefs.

    With mass-censorship and increasing talk about forced vaccinations, I am amazed that this doesn’t set off alarms in your head. If the US was unconcerned about infecting the population of San Francisco in 195o to test the spread of biological weapons, or unconcerned about employing LSD as a truth serum on unsuspecting Americans on a major scale, why would they suddenly be so concerned about people’s health – especially given the fact that the jab doesn’t prevent you from getting COVID or from you infecting other people? Given that information, why isn’t the US government fighting the opioid or obesity epidemic with the same intensity?

    • Agree: Alden
    • Thanks: Mevashir
    • Replies: @Mevashir
    , @InnerCynic
  42. Mevashir says:

    At the time, I flatly rejected the proposal, since my original intent had been to drive away the anti-vaxxers, or at least confine them to a sharply restricted area

    Very intriguing comment. I suspect growing numbers of your readers are wondering if this is your goal for the entire website: to confine dangerous unconventional viewpoints to a “safe zone” where they can be vented endlessly into cyberspace without posing any practical threat to the establishment.

    Your handlers have trained you well and will be very proud of you, Mr Unz [Unz in Yiddish means Us as in “he’s really one of us”]

    • Replies: @Wild Man
  43. @Cry foul

    Obviously, you are a hate filled anti-white bigot.

    Since your hatred of the white race is so intense, perhaps you should avoid this site altogether.

  44. Mevashir says:
    @gottlieb

    Great comment, thank you. If you are related to CIA MK-Ultra monster Sidney Gottlieb, you have redeemed your family name with this great comment!

  45. Mevashir says:
    @Blankaerd

    Very good questions. Here’s a possible answer:
    U nidentified
    N atural
    Z iono

  46. @Robert Dolan

    The vaxxed “need” your compliance because they themselves have doubts. They too are seeking herd immunity but its within a herd of compliant cows. Once they’ve surrounded themselves with enough fellow travellers they’ll go back to sleep once again.

    • Agree: Thirdtwin
  47. @Tom Verso

    So what is the problem?

    Because a lot of the information circulating parading as science is political, hyperbole, hypocritical, confused and generally laced with lots of corporate greed or brainwashing.

    -As when people claim that their vaccine does not work because I have not taken mine.
    -As when natural immunity is now a “dangerous idea”, when perhaps the vaccine is dangerous to those who are naturally immune?
    -As when first drug company claims of >98% proven effective and government promises the shots will be entirely voluntary. Then later efficacy is shown to be far less, and rather dangerous for other reason, and a growing medical tyranny is pushing hard for more coercive mandates on everyone.
    As when Dr. Mercola recommends people get exercise, sun, and fresh air and food… and vitamin D — and then he gets censored and intimidated with threats. Who are these criminals that a interfering with my First Amendment right to LISTEN? Why can you not respect my decision to be the among the control group? Seems the push for vaccinating everyone is a push to remove the control group, as they did with the first control group during the early clinical trials. Huh?

    Note: The outbreak on the HMS Queen Elizabeth in instructive. All personal have been fully vaccinated, but over 100 cases of COVID 19 have been confirmed. They claim they got this from visiting Cyprus, but my impression is much transmission of C19 is on board from one fully vaccinated person to others. So much for the protective value.

    The other point is the Navy’s chose to keep this long journey to many countries on schedule. Imagine if the nations of the world had demonstrated similar fortitude and kept things going much as normal.

    https://www.ibtimes.com/100-vaccinated-royal-navy-crewmembers-infected-covid-onboard-hms-queen-elizabeth-3251596

    • Replies: @Tom Verso
  48. @Blankaerd

    Exactly. When will the ‘War On Fat’ begin?

  49. Erebus says:

    Putting America’s jab-drama in a nutshell…

    The “Anti-Vaxx Crackpots”‘ political position is:
    [a] That the right to make their own decision is inalienable, and
    [b] That the decision is to be fully & honestly informed, and uncoerced.
    (I might here add that social pressure is one thing, but the threat of loss of this and other legally inalienable political and economic rights & freedoms is quite another.)

    The principle medical facts as seen by the “Anti-Vaxx Crackpots” are:
    [c] There is hard evidence that the publicly disseminated numbers of COVID Cases and COVID Deaths has been corruptly and grossly skewed to the upside.
    [d] There is hard evidence that the data regarding the adverse effects of mRNA vaxxines’ has been corruptly and grossly skewed to the downside.
    [e] There is now credible evidence building that the mRNA vaxxines offer little or no immunity for the subject, and may exacerbate the illness should he get it.
    [f] There is now credible evidence building that the mRNA vaxxines offer little or no defence against transmission by the vaxxed subject.

    Given that the Anti-Vaxxers’ employ a cost/benefit calculus that incorporates the above variables, it’s hard to see how the word “Crackpots” applies. The calculus is simplicity itself: Near-Zero benefits / possible-near-infinite risk = <1.

    Given that the Vaxxers' employ a cost/benefit calculus that dismisses all of the above out of hand in favour of politically motivated & charged memes, it's hard to see how the word "rational", never mind "scientific" applies.

    Aristotle said that the sign of an educated mind is the ability to entertain an idea without accepting it. "Anti-Vaxxers" entertained the idea according to their lights and rejected it on on consideration of the above points. "Vaxxers" shun entertainment of the contrary position and ipso facto have fallen into dogma, and in some cases have become dangerously ideological.

    Disclaimer: I have but an academic dog in this fight. I watch the American jab-drama unfold with Conrad's fascination of the abomination, but I also know that its unfolding has global implications that have already touched me and I expect they’ll do so more forcibly in the foreseeable future.

    • Agree: Bugey libre, Wild Man, Alfred
    • Thanks: Mark G.
  50. Skeptikal says:
    @gottlieb

    “It’s too bad to be labeled an “anti-vaxxer” when no vaccines exist. ”

    It doesn’t matter how often this is stated, it cuts no ice in Ron’s (and also The Saker’s, who is appearing increasingly unhinged) application of the “anti-vaxxer” label.
    There is simply no response. Crickets.

    A far more important question than “to jab or not to jab” is actually “to coerce or not to coerce?” Do you agree with coerced jabs? Yes or no.

    So far, at the UR, crickets also on this simple question.

    Yet that is the basic question that must be answered clearly before we continue with the reams of pilpul.

    It is kind of like: So, OK, there are lots of things about Jews that one might find obnoxious, or perhaps quite a lot of the Holocaust narrative is up for discussion—but the bottom line is: Do you think it is OK to eliminate Jews? Yes or no.

    Or, say, sure, mentally and emotionally retarded individuals cost families and society quite a lot, but would you support the T4 program? Yes or no.

    We really have to get a straight answer to question no. 1 first, or this whole thing is circle jerk.

    Yes or no?

  51. @Andreas

    A very well-said opinion, with which I fully agree.

    Add to that a history of radical failures in the previous attempts at corona virus vaccines, i.e., the potential problem of antibody dependent enhancement (ADE), and the absolutely fundamental rule that you never employ leaky vaccines in the face of a pandemic featuring a potentially lethal virus that mutates faster than just about any other known pathogen, unless you WANT to breed super-bugs with extraordinarily high pathogenicity and equally high transmissibility.

    A possible covert depopulation agenda, coupled with insane corporate profits. And increasingly likely permanent access on a potentially twice yearly basis to everyone’s arterial system for whatever those creating the Jabs might want to throw in as an added ‘bonus’.

    What’s for a greedy, evil, hyper-controlling elite not to like?

  52. Skeptikal says:
    @Greta Handel

    No. 3. Absolutely.

    See my No. 1, below (written before reading this).

    No more coyness. No more fog.

    Let’s have the bottom line out in the open.

    Then we can see where we are and can navigate from there.

  53. @Dutch Boy

    “The authorities are trying to coerce people with low risk into accepting an experimental treatment with unknown long-term effects that is already failing after six months. It’s nuts.”

    And very, very profitable for countless elites (who themselves do not wear masks, will never get the Jab, and who enjoy the delicious pleasure of knowing they are getting away with all this while making a ‘killing’, so to speak.)

    • Agree: Dutch Boy
    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  54. Skeptikal says:
    @Bugey libre

    These medical bureaucrats are sadists.

  55. @salience

    In fact it depends on the direction of the hospital but the tests are inefficient and thus it is humiliating to be submited to those so called test, especially because soon people will have to pay for this insanity. I let you guess how much it would cost my friends and hundred of thousand of people. This is just insane.

    Prenez soin de vous

  56. Anon62 says:

    Text of a letter communicated to my physician and to my Federal government representative:

    [MORE]

    We spoke at our last meeting of COVID vaccination. The following link leads to the OPEN VAERES database reporting on adverse events associated with COVID-19 vaccination.
    https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data

    Clicking on one of the “red boxes” will link to a detail page showing the time of adverse event onset post vaccination, the demographics of those affected, and the commercial names of the vaccine. Not all of this information is presently available as it is being suppressed.

    The second link leads to a post by a leading virologist. He details the fact herd immunity is impossible to achieve through vaccination and that the present vaccination campaign imposes selection pressure on the virus leading to viral forms better adapted to the human host.
    https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/post/c-19-pandemia-quo-vadis-homo-sapiens

    As stated in the first paragraph:
    Increased viral infectivity, combined with evasion from antiviral immunity, will inevitably result in an additional toll taken on human health and human lives. Immediate action needs, therefore, to be taken in order to dramatically reduce viral infectivity rates and to prevent selected immune escape variants from rapidly spreading through the entire population, whether vaccinated or not.

    The following link connects to a web resource which provides an extensive series of meta analyses on the effects of invermectin as prophylactic therapy for COVID-19.
    https://ivmmeta.com/

    Please note the first page statement:
    “The evidence base is much larger and has much lower conflict of interest than typically used to approve drugs.”

    The first attached PDF titled The Pfizer mRNA vaccine: pharmacokinetics and toxicity delivers a detailed review of expected adverse outcomes associated with SARS-CoV-2 infection and the associated vaccine. Note that one of the final bullet points states that vaccine toxicity increases with repeated dosage. This implies that the second dose is more toxic than the first and the third more toxic than the second. The forced program of vaccination is now to be “improved” through the addition of a third “booster” shot. As detailed in a prior link this will not only increase toxicity but will increase selection pressure and promote viral mutants which will evade the vaccine, thereby increasing infectivity and forcing the use of a fourth, fifth and sixth “booster” ad infinitum.

    The final attachment is a paper titled Informed consent disclosure to vaccine trial subjects of risk of COVID-19 vaccines worsening clinical disease which details all of the adverse events associated with the COVID-19 program of forced vaccination. It is to be noted that the effects of the vaccine will only make themselves fully known over a period of months to years post vaccination. It further details how mRNA can reconstitute as DNA and in this form be transmitted to progeny.

    I have omitted from this communication a variety of papers which demonstrate that medical professionals who speak of this evidence are being cancelled and / or threatened with a loss of licence to practice. Other omitted papers detail the degree to which public information sources are censoring any materials, including scientific papers, which provide evidence contra to the state’s program of forced vaccination.

    I think you will recognize that what is being described is voodoo science promoted by incompetents. Voodoo science leads to real world effects. A forced shift away from evidence based medical practice results in voodoo medicine, witch-doctoring, and a deprecation of your profession.

    As you are aware, I have the right to informed consent. This fundamental right is being abrogated by nitwits such as “blackface” Trudeau. I have no wish to be part of a global experiment under which the state forces the bodily injection of materials representing a novel medical technology which has never completed Phase II and Phase III testing, materials which are shown to cause adverse events of considerable significance, materials which do not demonstrate any benefit to the population but do offer financial benefit to a pharmaceutical industry absolved of all product liability claims.

    I recognize that there exist grounds for debate of these issues. I also believe this debate is being deliberately suppressed as the state has usurped your role as physician. Having worked as an employee of the state I can assure you the state spends a considerable portion of its resources on painting itself in the best possible light and in the suppression of any contrary evidence.

    If the foregoing evidence is an accurate reflection of “reality” then I do not believe the suppression of contrary evidence will succeed; over a period of months the citizens of the world will come to recognize they have been lied to by a group of charlatans. Worse, these same citizens will discover they have accepted the injection into their bodies of materials which pose a long term threat of harm both to themselves and possibly to their progeny.

    I am determined to not participate in this global experiment. I will retain my position as a member of the control group. Remember thalidomide: https://thalidomide.ca/en/the-canadian-tragedy/

    Respectfully,

    • Agree: Peripatetic Itch
    • Thanks: Skeptikal
  57. Rahan says:
    @InnerCynic

    As people have sarcastically said elsewhere… it’s the “holo-cough”

    I’ll raise you one Bischvetz.

  58. Mevashir says:
    @Robert Dolan

    This is a very good comment, but the reason you are perceived as a threat if you don’t take the jab is that the shot doesn’t prevent Covid but it simply mitigates its worst symptoms (allegedly). The people who don’t take the jab allegedly become human petri dishes for the virus to mutate into more virulent forms that threaten the jabbed folks.

    So it’s not really a “vaccine” at all but rather a symptom mitigation tool that apparently depends on nearly 100% social compliance. That’s the very insidious nature of this campaign.

    Also because they are conducting this like a war, their short-term goal of stopping the virus overshadows many possible long-term deleterious effects that they simply don’t have the luxury of caring about. Just as in any war where the short-term goal of victory over the enemy necessitates actions that could be extremely damaging to the long-term viability of the warring society even if it does attain its short-term goal of military victory. Eg, the development and deployment of nuclear weapons during world war II.

    Another factor is if the 40% who don’t take the jab become seriously ill, this allegedly completely overwhelms the healthcare system and has ramifications for the inoculated, depriving them of other potentially important medical therapies unrelated to Covid.

    PS Ron has implied that many of the authors on this site have taken the jab. I think he should manifest full transparency and let all of us know if he took it!

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    , @Skeptikal
  59. @Dumbo

    As I have said on another thread, yesterday we were driving to the closest city to join the demonstration with people from different villages. One of the woman told us that her stepdaughter, who is a nurse in the local hospitalworks in the ‘covid’ section. There are only two people there at that point (that contradicts greatly the catastrophic tone of the usurpators in power) and that both of them had been inoculated.

    They were told by the direction that it was forbiden to mention that inoculated people were sick.

    Many videos from Réunion Island, Martinique, Guadeloupe, sent by nurses, fireman demonstrate the same thing. The hospitals are empty.

    • Thanks: The Alarmist
    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  60. @Roger

    Roger, there’s jobs for Facebook and YouTube censors open. Maybe you should consider applying.

    The way Mr. Unz began this essay, I was concerned that he might begin to follow in the direction you propose. But I was quickly heartened to read that no such thing is planned. Thank you, Ron, for being so open minded with those of us with different opinions. As we “vaccine hesitant” skeptics are being further ostracized as each day passes, (CNN calls the unvaccinated murderers), we need a place to vent. Most of the comments to your article are of top notch quality.

    • Replies: @Roger
  61. Mr. Unz has once again shown his tolerant, benevolent side in allowing the so-called Corona Chan “vaccination” debate to continue within his online regime. The lemmings should rightly appreciate that.

    This discourse may at least open the eyes of some passing lemmings to the reality behind the Corona Chan “vaccines”, which may literally save lives over the next few years.

    [MORE]

    However, I fear all the Corona Chan “vaccine” excitement has overshadowed the greater threat of which the “pandemic” is just the opening play. There are effective nutritional and medicinal countermeasures to both the alleged Corona Chan “bug” and to the known short-term injuries and mid-to-long-term ADE caused by the “vaccines”. Strategically speaking, the “pandemic” and “vaccines” are just an extended (albeit potentially fatal) nuisance, but they are a critical part in the WEF’s “window of opportunity” to accomplish their “Great Reset”. Compulsory injections provide the premise for “vaccine passports”, forever.

    All Western governments are now marching in “lockstep” to the WEF’s directions, we are on the verge of having to produce a “passport” just to be allowed to buy food (just ask the French people), all governments are parroting the WEF’s theme of “Build Back Better”, and do we really need to be reminded, the “massive cyber attack” on global financial and logistic systems rehearsed in the WEF’s July 2021 Cyber Polygon is just around the corner.

    The Corona Chan “vaccines” are already a known quantity for anyone who has been watching.

    Cyber Polygon Live is a far greater threat to everyone. Klaus Schwab literally compared the coming “massive cyber attack” to “COVID-19 on steroids” – and he’s the one running the show. Remember that “window of opportunity” for the “Great Reset”? The Corona Chan “pandemic” has got us all off-balance and disoriented, and Cyber Polygon Live will be the coup-de-grace – no money, no communications, no fuel, no power, no food, no water, no sewerage service, no medicine, no emergency services, no police, no medical services, no hospitals and no hope.

    Then what’s left of our governments will follow the WEF’s instructions to “Build Back Better” – for them.

    And for those of us left alive, we will all “own nothing, and be happy”.

    Please, for the benefit of those among us who have yet to understand the true nature of the Corona Chan “vaccines”, discuss them extensively here while Mr. Unz has been so understanding to provide the platform to do so.

    Just don’t lose sight of what’s coming next.

    For anyone who believes that the Corona Chan “pandemic” wasn’t planned, please consider the disclosures at the following link –

    The “COVID-19 PCR Testing Kits” Were Patented in 2015, Sold Around the World in 2017

    https://survivalblog.science.blog/2021/07/06/ultimate-proof-covid-19-was-planned/

    • Thanks: Alfred
    • Replies: @InnerCynic
    , @Mevashir
  62. Pelayo says:

    Why no trad vaxxes in US and its vassals? Certainly easy to make trad vaxxes, even Cuba has made one. Why the fixation on spike protein vaxxes? Why no consideration for natural immunity?

    Don’t focus on the obvious inconsistencies in the COVID tale, focus on the very real responses. It is near impossible to travel by airplane internationally now, and frankly the same goes for land borders. The lockdowns created a massive amount of economic disruption in the supply-chains that is driving shipping costs up massively -> who gets hurt by this? Chinese exporters.

    The Chinese economy is the reverse of the USSR economy, meaning that the USSR sold oil to buy western machine tools and consumer products, while China sells manufactured products to buy energy and food. USA squeezed USSR by driving oil to $10 and ramping up an arms race, and you saw the long bread lines as a result which destabilized the USSR. Now USA is attempting to reduce demand for Chinese exports, while driving up the cost of needed Chinese imports, thereby creating social instability, and hopefully collapsing the CPC regime. This is what modern Great Power warfare looks like.

    It is very possible that more viruses could be released, to increase the demand destruction of Chinese exports. It is possible that the mRNA vaxxes are specifically designed protect against these soon to be released viruses via spike-protein familiarity.

    Alternatively, the mRNA vaxxes could be the start of wide-scale eugenics program to clean out the old and infirm in the West via spike-proteins on vascular cells creating hypertension and clotting. That, combined with the restrictions on travel, will certainly reduce greenhouse gas emissions a lot, as the USA (and most of the West) has hundreds of millions of ‘pets’ masquerading as residents. Or the climate aside, just reducing the number of unproductive people in the West would be extremely helpful in reducing the dead-weight, thus making the West more competitive with the East.

    We just don’t know what has been planned for us, as on Sept 11, 2001 few knew what had been planned. But we will soon find out.

    • Agree: Skeptikal
    • Disagree: Mevashir
  63. nickels says:

    There is something disingenuous, or careless, or perhaps passive aggressive in characterizing those against the covid experimental gene therapy, and against its tyrannical forced injection, as ‘anti-vaxxers’.

    I think the more appropriate understanding is that they are against the government and big corporations assuming total control over their bodies and having the ability to inject them at will with a bunch of toxic sludge designed to kill them or maim them or otherwise make them sick and zombified.

    Especially given that covid is nothing more than a severe flu, which I can say with authority since I’ve had bouth rounds of it.

    This whole thing is a scam and always has been.

    To object to tyranny is not to be ‘anti-vax’.

    Although anyone who trusts the vax’ers with their body is an imbecile, but that is another point.

    • Agree: onebornfree
    • Replies: @sally
  64. @Ultrafart the Brave

    I stole the Corona-chan line for future use. Good one.

    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
  65. @Roger

    Sorting out the truth on this issue is no easy task due to the vast amount of hysteria, disinformation and outright lies broadcast by the empire, its media propaganda organs, and its loyal foot-soldiers (often acting under orders) and from those in equal hysterical reaction to the issue – who likewise are far too quick to resort to the same dishonest tactics of cherry-picking, distortion, or just blatantly lying (It’s just a cold, bro). Given that Unz’s own series of outstanding articles on the extremely suspicious origins of COVID-19 (likely the US Deep State) and it’s fundamental nature (an engineered bio-weapon), I am more than a little surprised at Unz’s willingness to take the claims of those pushing the vax (basically the same gang who created and deployed the weapon) at face value. This includes the hero of many of the more hysterical anti-vax crowd, by the way, the God-Emperor of Grift himself – Donald J. Trump – whose ‘operation warp speed’ offered an excuse to do away with normal testing procedures for new vaccines.

    The continuous media campaign against inexpensive treatments like Ivermectin and other out-of-patent medications likewise raises serious questions. Even if these inexpensive treatments are only effective in the mild cases, using them makes more hospital beds available for the really serious cases. Let’s have some rational discussion here to sort out facts from the many fictions and distortions. As some famous figure once remarked: a lie is halfway around the world before the truth gets its pants on. What should have been a simple public health issue has become a political football tossed back and forth.

    • Thanks: Mark G.
    • Replies: @Roger
  66. cassandra says:
    @Rahan

    Indeed: while there may be lunatic anti-vaxxers, there are also fanatically indoctrinated pro-vaxxers. Data from Israel seems to indicate that the Pfizer vaccine, at least, has reduced efficacy against the Delta variant, and this is the sort of outcome Geert Vanden Bosch had anticipated.

    Rather than take a closer look at the possibility that the mRNA approach might be a long-term failure, there’s a misdirection campaign, that somehow evil, irresponsible unvaccinateds are the ones really responsible for all the breakouts and rise in cases and deaths.

    This attitude is both scientifically and politically toxic. Emotional anti-vaxxers might harbor excessive values of righteous anger against corporations for pharmaceutical deception, but shoot-me-ups are promoting outright hatred of their fellow-citizens, and practically advocating witch-burnings.

    Where do I get my yellow star?

    • Agree: Wild Man
    • Replies: @cassandra
    , @InnerCynic
  67. Roger says:
    @Greta Handel

    Greta,

    I will not judge your comments on this site to decide if they are worthy or welcome. That is the responsibility of Ron Unz and I dare say he is capable of doing just that. However, according to the quote I included, if,

    “…crude insults, totally ignorant nonsense, or crazy remarks…”

    are part of your arsenal, then you might very well find yourself in the line of fire.

    • Replies: @Greta Handel
  68. Wild Man says:
    @Dumbo

    Dumbo – on your comment:

    “It seems in the end, the vaccine does not stop the spread, and may not not even stop disease or death. I’m starting to wonder what is it that it actually does.”

    I tried to respond to one of your comments on the ‘American Pravda: Waging Biological Warfare’ thread, a couple of days ago, and my comment was binned, so I will re-post said comment here now (and just for the record, I too find something very irritating, in keeping with Unz’s sentiment … except for me I find it very irritating that the author of an article with a title like that, won’t consider any discussion or argument around vaxx as potential biological warfare, even after said author thinks it quite likely indeed, that sars-cov-2 is a bioweapon. I just want to hi-light that Unz continues to refuse to address this glaring contradiction, even after repetitively called on to clear the air in this respect, by myself and many many others within the commentariat here).

    Here is the comment I tried to post a couple of days ago, that continues to be an appropriate response (in my estimation) to your continued queries, in this respect:

    I suppose the smoking gun is the spike protein genetic sequence. If said hypothesis proves true (i.e. – that the leading bioweapon hypotheses best operate by way of peculiarities of the spike protein pathogenesis), then as such, it wouldn’t then matter the manner in which we (the general public) have been deceived into allowing the expression of said spike protein sequence within our bodies. The point is … the deception has worked.

    I don’t believe nearly anyone (even the commentariat here at UR) really understands or has even thought more than superficially, about this spike protein sequence, how it came to be shared with all the virology labs of the world by China (Jan/20), whom then, working in conjunction with the vaxx-makers, went on to produce vaccine-like-prophylactics that force the expression of the spike protein using the body’s own metabolic machinery, …. all using the same backbone mRNA genetic sequence, …. given that we know that the spike protein possesses some very troubling and weird pathogenic peculiarities within vascular tissue, especially such tissue laying beyond the respiratory tract, (and most probably the gut as well) …. which is the hallmark event of long-covid (i.e. – viral escape from immune-system-mediated segregation of tissue involved, outside of the respiratory tract and gut, to now also involve vascular tissue throughout the body inclusive of multiple organ systems) …. which is also the hallmark event of the mRNA vaxxes (i.e. – nanolipid encapsulation of mRNA sequence for spike protein, … escaping localized muscle-tissue/proximal-lymph-tissue … as such now including mRNA expression within cells, within vascular tissue, outside of 1) the respiratory tract, 2) the gut 3) localized muscle tissue/proximal-lymph-tissue).

    Given this evidence …… it is reasonable for those that entertain the Covid-19 as bioweapon hypothesis, ….. to go on to consider the further hypothesis …. that this therefore means the vaxxes may well be bioweapons too. Yet this key insight is discouraged here at UR.

    • Agree: Peripatetic Itch
    • Replies: @Exalted Cyclops
  69. metamars says: • Website

    I have been aggregating references and articles about dysfunction and corruption in a wide range of sciences, and medicine, on my vanity sub-reddit:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/bad_science_culture

    It’s not a deep dive, but a decent overview, with links you can follow for more study.

    As you can imagine, the covid stuff has lately predominated.

    In all areas of science, one cannot understand the exoteric functioning of any organization, and it’s seemingly independent cheerleaders, without having at least a clue about what I sometimes call the ‘meta-science’. This would include sociology, career incentives and disincentives, position within the hierarchy, etc.

    So, I would strongly suggest that, in attempting to evaluate any putatively scientific claim, at least be mindful of where official spokespersons are likely to be suppressing or distorting truth, as would be consistent with their likely (even if not completely known) motivations.

    • Replies: @Emslander
  70. Thelonius says:

    I find it quite irritating that this is allegedly about “anti-vaxxers” vs. “pro-vaxxers”. I didn’t take the time to read the comments but most people that I heard or read about the topic including myself use to stress that they are not against vaccinations in general but only against the experimental gene-therapy called mRna-vaccine. Mr. Unz, it would be insulting and unobjective if you’d call me or anyone else an anti-vaxxer because we deny to get jabbed with this not-vaccine.

    • Replies: @W
  71. @Mevashir

    re: “a symptom mitigation tool that apparently depends on nearly 100% social compliance.”

    How do you get from “a symptom mitigation tool”

    to

    “depends on nearly 100% social compliance.”

    The only way anybody’s symptoms can be mitigated is if everybody’s symptoms are mitigated?

    What if somebody exhibits symptoms of a totally different disease — leprosy, for example, or maybe skin cancer that causes their nose to go flakey.
    Are they to be ostracized the same as a a deplorable anti-vaxxer?

    Is the goal to have a society of only perfectly healthy persons, where “perfectly healthy” is defined as “free of symptoms of coronavirus” but not necessarily free of disfiguring cancer.

    Makes no sense.

    • Replies: @Mevashir
  72. Robjil says:
    @Emslander

    set of political purposes and are now being forced on people for another set of political purposes.

    That is main reason that I am skeptical. If it was “so important”, then all vaccines from any nation anywhere would OK to be used for it. Since, it is a world-wide “terror”.

    The demonizing of Russia, China, and Iran continues just like before Covid. Why can’t we have vaccines freely available from them anywhere in the world?

    If we must have the vaccine, give us a peace choice. Allow us to take vaccines from outside Zion Ruled Nations. Otherwise, it is questionable do so. It is a political game with our bodies.

    • Replies: @Ben the Layabout
  73. For the record, I am not generally anti-vax.

    In fact, for many years I got the flu shot religiously, then I stopped getting it because I kept getting the flu anyway.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  74. Mevashir says:
    @Ultrafart the Brave

    I don’t think RU is being benevolent or helpful to us at all. He’s simply providing UNZ (Us) a forum for endless cyber-masterdebation on this pathetic topic:
    https://www.unz.com/announcement/covid-to-vaxx-or-not-to-vaxx/#comment-4843061

    The point is to burn up all of our anger and outrage in futile argumentation leaving us in a spent afterglow of feeble ineffectuality.

    The UR is like an intellectual condom preventing impregnation of these concerns into practical policies.

    Just like porn is a fake substitute for sex, UR is a fake substitute for organized political action.

  75. Roger says:
    @follyofwar

    Folly of war,

    To say that the restriction of “…crude insults, totally ignorant nonsense, or crazy remarks…” is akin to censorship and has no place on a high-quality discussion venue is ludicrous. To allow any and/or all comments regardless of their content is to lower the bar so far that anyone can “jump” over it, which inevitably means that the tenor of the entire website becomes degraded. Just because someone has an opinion does not mean that everyone must listen to it.

    I have no problem with discussing differing points of view. In fact, I pointed out that I took the side of Mike Whitney in opposition to Ron Unz. The ability to listen carefully to and reason with others is what makes for a good discussion. I have no tolerance for “censorship” which only allows one side of an argument to the exclusion of all others, but I do believe in freedom for everyone to “censor” and moderate the tone of the comments posted on their own website.

  76. Mevashir says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    I agree it makes no sense. But their reasoning seems to be that so long as people are unvaccinated the virus will keep mutating and endangering those who have already been vaccinated. It’s like making us jump through a series of perpetual hoops. All for the purpose of enriching Big Pharma and impoverishing the rest of us.

  77. Roger says:
    @Exalted Cyclops

    Exalted Cyclops,

    I am in complete agreement with what you have written. How does this relate to the comment I made?

    • Replies: @Exalted Cyclops
  78. Since my IQ has at least a fighting chance of attaining three figures, I prefer to get my medical information from medical journal articles, rather than from either the media, or from media spox-holes masquerading as FDA or CDC officials.

    In consequence, I first noted that the usual process of testing required by the FDA, which normally takes between nine and thirteen years, was compressed in the case of the Covid vaccines to less than ONE year. I also noted that both human and animal trials were severely truncated, and were replaced by in vivo and in silico (or computer simulation) testing. My caution regarding the vaxs began at that point.

    My caution increased when I read journal articles which stated that more human trials needed to be done to rule out either adverse interactions between the vaccine and those who previously were infected with the virus, or those who had pre-existing auto-immune disease. As I fell into both categories, I again decided to wait until we had further information on such interactions.

    At this point, my curiosity concerning the vaxs was raised, and so I wanted to learn more about how they worked. I was, however, hampered in my efforts by the fact that most of the information constituted trade secrets and intellectual property which was carefully guarded by the vax makers. In spite of these barriers, I was able to learn that of the three vaxs granted conditional use permits in the U.S., all three involved mRNA encapsulated in lipid nanoparticles. The theory was that the nanoparticles would merge with cells at the injection site, and the mRNA would cause the cells to produce the spike protein of the virus, which would lodge on the surface of the cell, and the immune system would act to destroy the infected cells and to produce antibodies against the spike proteins.

    In late May 2021, I learned that the Salk Institute had announced a study which showed that the spike protein itself was an independent cause of cellular damage, particularly to the endothelial vascular cells of the blood vessels, lung alveoli, and kidney glomeruli. I was assured, though, that this fact meant little, because the nanoparticles and mRNA of all the vaccines remained localized to the injection site, and because the spike protein of the Pfizer and Moderna vaxs were locked by molecular ‘tri-mers’ into a ‘harmless’ prefusion spike protein, and the J&J vax only had a portion of the spike protein. Those ‘tri-mers’ were also used to affix the spike protein of the vaxs to the cell surface.

    I also learned that, at least for the Pfizer and Moderna vaxs, the standard dose was 5.0*10^10 nanoparticles. In short: ten billion nanoparticles per dose.

    In late June 2021, I learned of a number of reports which indicated that the nanoparticles of the vaxs did not localize to the injection site, but circulated throughout the circulatory system, and tended to concentrate in particular organs.

    And just a couple of days ago, I found in an article that both artificial and natural ‘tri-mers’ of the spike protein were ‘inherently unstable’, and could easily destabilize in the blood system after injection.

    I believe therefore that as a result of inadequate testing during the ten month period between the development of the vaxs and their conditional use permit and extensive use, a now-known and virulent cyto-toxin has the potential to circulate throughout the body after injection, and further, to destabilize and become active as a cyto-toxin. Since RBCs compose 90% of the blood cells in the blood system, since they have a life span of up to 120 days, and since they also have ACE-2 receptors which are vulnerable to the spike protein, RBCs bearing the spike protein have the potential to do continued cellular damage for up to four months after initial or secondary injection.

    And that is why I at present will not take any of the vaccines. There are too many questions presently unanswered, and too much potential for long term damage.

    The rest of you can do whatever you want. Your mileage may vary.

  79. Ivymike says:

    Next rid yourself of the commenters who blame everything on The Jews and show up by the third comment in every thread.

    • Replies: @ivegotrythm
    , @Nancy
  80. @InnerCynic

    Just so you know, Corona Chan is a meme – an anime personification of the alleged naughty Coronavirus bug (in the same spirit as, say, Ebola Chan or Rabies Chan).

    Some might say, a fictional character for a fictional virus.

    [MORE]

    Here’s my very favorite Corona Chan image – the original & the best.

    Here’s Corona Chan with her best friend Ebola Chan (interesting that the US Government holds patents for both – true story).

    And here’s Corona Chan and Ebola Chan with their friend Rabies Chan.

    • Thanks: InnerCynic
    • Replies: @InnerCynic
  81. Wild Man says:
    @Cry foul

    I imagine your comment should be binned, because it should instead be posted under one of the articles you mention. Look … I for one don’t like binning, but nevertheless, in keeping with Unz’s rules ….. it’s funny your comment wasn’t binned as inappropriate for this thread.

    And since your comment wasn’t binned, I suppose I am in the clear, as to giving you a response on the topic you reference. Here goes: The rabid racists you reference, are not that, they are mainly people whom take issue with all the leftist-cryptic-racists, all showing their true colors now, for at least a year now, and the dynamic around ‘showing true colors’ just becomes more apparent with each passing day. I don’t expect you to understand. You are in crypsis. How will your rational mind deal with such dynamic? It can’t (until you get so emotional about it that you want to puke … then and only then will your rational mind begin to be given some free reign again, within your psyche, as is appopriate, as is hugely discouaged by the ongoing emotionalism of your virtue-signalling bunk).

  82. Two possible conclusions why Ron is so openly condescending and insulting to those who oppose the Jab; the first is obvious, while the second is clearly quite speculative (but based in experiences I have had with a number of close friends, as made clear below.) Both are, to my mind at least, fully understandable.

    1.) It is one thing to be a convenient, well-known watering hole for lots of racists, antisemites, and semi-crazies who spout inane nonsense, as that makes it easier for the ADL-FBI partnership to round them up once Jewish Supremacism, Inc. gets down to business, but quite another to in any way lend credence to opposing what is to my mind (as Drs Geert Vanden Bossche and Robert Malone and so many others make clear) a highly questionable but very profitable vaccination program that our government and the elite of elites are universally supporting and countenancing no deviation from. It’s called intelligence, and it is necessary to survive in adverse circumstances.

    2.) Possible self interest of the highest order (which may even be unconscious.) If Ron’s mother, Esther, is still alive (and I certainly hope she is, and in good health, as she appears to have been a loving and caring mother from what I have read about her), he could very possibly fall into the exalted class of my close jewish friends who all absolutely adore their mothers and have uniformly wildly, nay rabidly, embraced lockdowns, masking in every circumstance, and forced universal jabs as ultimately being protective of the woman they, to a man, love more than anything in the world. And they are unrepentant: they don’t care about the societal costs of lockdowns or masking, nor any possible problems with the Jabs. They care about protecting their beloved mothers and vehemently oppose anti-lockdowners and anti-Jabbers. Hard to blame them for being completely dedicated sons. All supremely loving and caring mothers deserve such devotion from their kids. If Ron is anything like my friends, this may play a role, even if subconscious. Jewish men in my experience seem to have very close relationships with their mothers, which I find beautiful. I hope Ron was equally lucky as my buddies.

    Of course, if Ron’s mom has passed away, my deepest apology and heartfelt condolences, as from what I read she was truly a very special, loving and totally committed mom, and she obviously did a fine job of raising Ron right in very difficult circumstances. That would leave only conclusion #1, above, which is (sadly) a wise choice in the highly censored atmosphere we collectively find ourselves.

    [Post Script FYI: I did do a number of Google searches on Ron’s mom before posting this, but could not find anything that would definitively indicate if she was still alive or not. But from what I found, it appears she is. Which is good.]

    • LOL: Emslander
  83. Anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:

    I think this is a wise course of action. My situation as a lurker and individual human who doesn’t want to be hassled in the name of Public Health, is different than that of a proprietor of website who has other concerns and a world of other topics. The Saker’s zero tolerance policy struck me as extreme, but on the other hand Covid dominated all the open threads and his site is ostensibly about Russia, foreign policy and military topics. Unfortunately for the Saker, I reassessed my monthly contribution as I realized that I no longer use his site as much as I did in the past.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  84. @Wild Man

    Here’s a question for those of us who think Unz’s case for COVID-19 being an engineered bio-weapon is very strong (I agree that Unz has basically proved his case for it):

    Are these mRNA vaccines ‘warp-speeded’ past the testing process intended to thwart the bioweapon, or are they intended to enhance its effectiveness? As many have noted, many of the same bad-actors involved in the creation and deployment of the bio-weapon, along with those who engaged in a year-long active campaign of lying and deception to deny the existence or possibility of it being a bio-weapon – are the same folks now busy pushing the administration of the mRNA vaccines and indeed profiting from their manufacture and sale.

    There is surely a cui bono? in play here. Who? Whom?

    An issue like this should never have been politicized. But that cat is long out of the bag and the bag has been burned. The hard part is going to be sorting out truth from falsehood on every single assertion one-by-one.

    • Agree: Wild Man
  85. Funny as hell. I lived and worked in Japan during the mid 80s for about four years, married a Japanese girl and have four anime/manga kids nuts for Ranma, Inuyasha etc. So if I’m guilty of anything it’s that. These are keepers and I’m going to spread the ‘Rona. Not the beer mind you… that’s like Budweiser to me.

    • Thanks: Rahan
  86. @Roger

    My reply was an agreement with your own comment – maybe adding a couple of more points.

    • Replies: @Roger
  87. Raches says:

    Mr. Unz, you have empirically validated my hypothesis that all you wanted was a reasonable discussion—in contradistinction to the stereotypical Internet equivalent of a vermin-infested garbage heap. Thank you for recognizing the intelligent discourse on both sides of this debate, including the not inconsiderable effort that I have invested to help raise the signal above the noise.

    For further discussion here, I draw attention to three comments that I have recently made, which properly belong in this topic:

    • A 1,600-word comment yesterday, in which I examine the epistemological problem caused by the decay of scientific integrity, and I illustrate the problem with what I believe to be a questionable, but facially reasonable hypothesis:

    Working scientists have a longstanding mental habit of denying the theory of evolution, whenever and however political correctness so requires. On this particular subject, their whole thought process is as corrupt and unreliable as that of “intelligent design” advocates—some of whom weave rather sophisticated nonsense rationalizing their position. On the subject of the Covid vaccines, this mental habit could be fatal….

    I tend to think in evolutionary terms; it seemed obvious to me that in our hubris and our desperation for a silver bullet, all that we may be achieving is a eugenics program to breed a new race of superviruses….

    I could be wrong in my such supposition (although I do think that supposing the development timeline of all of the variants to be mere happenstance would be an extraordinary claim, requiring commensurate evidence). I am certainly right in my appraisal of the current state of scientific thought; in the application thereof to the Covid vaccines, I have provided a questionable proposition to illustrate the aforesaid epistemological problem.

    • Another 1,600-word comment yesterday, in which I find a startling similarity between some of the wilder anti-vaxxer conspiracy theories about malicious “euthanasia shots”, and the proposition that evil Nazi showerheads are there to POISON YOU. “Lice do not exist! And typhus does not exist! The so-called ‘typhus epidemic’ is a scamdemic! It is all Nazi propaganda!” I observe that the most fanatical anti-vaxxers have been treating Mr. Unz as a Denier of the impending Vaccine Holocaust; and I conclude with some important words of caution for everyone discussing this topic in good faith.

    • My ultimate comment in the interview thread before it was closed, in which I addressed That Would Be Telling about masks. I think that that’s on topic here. It is an urgent public health issue—especially because, as you observed, Mr. Unz, regardless of their arguable merits, the vaccines alone are not adequate to prevent the spread of the virus.

    As I urged, following some eminently practical questions and comments about masks:

    Stop the politics! Stop the religion! In America, the Left has made masking a mark of moral virtue. They treat anyone with a naked face as if a nudist had just walked into a Puritan church. The Right reacted accordingly. This must stop.

    […]

    Wearing a mask as a somewhat bidirectional barrier against a respiratory contagion is common sense, just as much as leaving the mask off when you are out hiking alone in the middle of the woods.

    In conclusion, I remark that as I observed just yesterday, annoying crackpots come from many directions—and they so often seem to converge:

    @Intelligent Dasein

    Viruses do not “evolve.” First of all, Darwinian evolution does not occur at all, as I have amply demonstrated before. But even on the theory that it did occur, it wouldn’t apply to viruses because viruses are not alive in the first place. Viruses are everywhere and always the manufactured products of living cells and they have no agency of their own. Consequently, they cannot get more lethal. What you are afraid of is something that has never happened in all of known history.

    You and the flu hoaxers present empirical disproof of the theory of evolution.

    Apes do not “evolve”. “Humans” are still simian, as I observed earlier…

    If Mr. Unz ever bans crackpots from this site, he should start here. “Intelligent design” fanatics are just as bad as the worst anti-vaxxer zealots.

    [Internal quoting is re-arranged in this very short excerpt.]

    __________

    After a few brief replies, I will soon go and circle back to this thread. Since I am actually not a monomaniac, several threads completely unrelated to vaccines have recently drawn my attention—including one in which I owe Mr. Unz a reply on an important topic; and I admittedly spend more time on my longest comments than some authors probably spend on feature articles.

    I note this not to talk about myself too much, but because most people nowadays are accustomed to fast-paced Internet discussions. Please understand that lack of a prompt reply from me does not necessarily indicate that I will not reply. In addressing complex topics, I prefer the slow, cautious exchange of mature ideas; and given the keen interest that I now have in the Covid vaccines, I am sure to be deeply involved here, albeit perhaps at a somewhat less prolific volume. I was so earnestly upset that my go-to source for watching vaccine discussions may disappear, I threw aside other matters to produce those tens of thousands of words.

  88. @Mevashir

    The point is to burn up all of our anger and outrage in futile argumentation leaving us in a spent afterglow of feeble ineffectuality.

    I agree that a forum for controlled discussion about the Corona Chan “vaccines” falls way short of what’s needed to defeat the WEF’s long-planned global coup currently underway.

    But it is what it is – and it may provide the information for otherwise uninformed lemmings to save their own or others lives, at least from the effects of the “vaccines” if nothing else.

    And the point remains – for pity’s sake, don’t lose sight of the bigger picture.

  89. @Bernard Brandt

    Wasn’t it the head of Moderna that quipped they’d “developed” the vaccine within a couple of months after it was plopped onto the interwebs and media mafia organs? That alone shouted out to me “Booool Sheeet!”

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  90. @Ultrafart the Brave

    I’d have to say that these cartoons have more “substance” than the virus they’re mocking

  91. Wild Man says:
    @Mevashir

    UR as a limited hangout. Mmmmm. If that is the case then somebody with the power to censor UR, or any such website, overestimates Mr. Unz’s powers of obfuscation. Mr. Unz’s moves are too transparent for that, it seems to me (so easy to see through). But who knows …. maybe the pervasive censorship we experience everywhere, on every topic, within mainstream discourse, also needs to be peppered here and there, with some obfuscating engagements as well, … as per the globalist’s work with respect to focus-grouping and such, to figure out precisely what is needed to overwhelm a culture’s sense of purpose.

    If it really is that ….. then I would be willing to give Mr. Unz some cred ….. as one then, with the vastly superior IQ I keep hearing about here within UR comment threads, ….. that uses said smarts to do the obfuscator-in-chief-for-the-more-rational-types, in a way that is transparent enough, for those with some cred of their own, to see through.

    We live in very weird times indeed, whereby everybody and everything is suspect, as per normative western rational judgment, …. because the lying and deceitfulness as reached astounding and almost unbelievable levels.

  92. Emslander says:
    @metamars

    I have been aggregating references and articles about dysfunction and corruption in a wide range of sciences, and medicine,

    Then I imagine that you’ve run into the fundamentally flawed processes of modern science. Do you realize that “science” now no longer requires the once inviolable principles involving published experiments? There was a time when a hypothesis had to be examined by experimentation that included a control group and that was repeatable by other scientists in the field. This has been superseded by acceptance of “inferential” proof, which turns logic on its head.

    It’s been a while since I’ve done the reading on these failures, but it does mean that we have every justification in the world for being skeptical of the “science”.

    Since you seem to focus on these kinds of breakdowns, I’ll give you back the floor.

    • Replies: @metamars
  93. Raches says:
    @Anonymous

    “This is not an anti-vaxx webzine, and I was concerned that it might become perceived as such.”

    Why would you be so concerned about it? You host plenty of opinions that go against the mainstream dogma, on topics like race, Jews, gender differences, American imperialism etc. Why are you so preoccupied with DEFENDING the mainstream point of view on this one particular subject? Why are you so curtly dismissive of the dozens of well-reasoned anti-vaccine arguments presented here, many of them quoting actual scientists and doctors?

    I raised these same points at some length in the prior thread; and indeed, this is exactly why I reacted so strongly to the prospect that discussion may be shut down: “Are anti-vaxxers now politically ‘worse than Hitler’? If so, what does that say about the Covid vaccines? If stronger censorship were being applied to vaccine topics than to Second World War topics, then I would infer that there must be some horrible secret about the vaccines, and I should avoid them at all costs!”

    But as Mr. Unz elaborated on his irritation with the anti-vaxxers, I resolved these questions differently.

    I think it is relevant that despite some drastic differences between Mr. Unz’s cultural background and my own, there are also some remarkable similarities. It is therefore relatively easy for me to apply what is my customary, and highly unusual approach in such matters: Try as much as I can to put myself in his shoes, get inside his head, and look at the world through his eyes. It is impossible to achieve this perfectly; but I believe that I have a special talent for it.

    In so totally detaching myself from my own subjective views that I strive to examine the same external object through someone else’s subjective “internal experience”, I do not think I presume too much in claiming that I really understand Mr. Unz’s position on the vaccines. After all, it resonates with my own subjective position: I have real-life experience in a milieu in which anti-vaxxery is more unacceptable socially than racism, hatred of the Jews, ridicule of the Holohoax, and praise of Adolf Hitler.

    I have recently been starting to contemplate just how badly blinkered that view may be; but I do understand it.

  94. Fr. John says:
    @Vergissmeinnicht

    LOSE WEIGHT.

    Take Ivermectin. I’m doing both things. I will NOT be death jabbed. Especially after I read this, just the other day.

    https://stateofthenation.co/?p=78437

    I believe in the doctrine of Total Depravity, so I’m NOT one to fall for the LIES of the FAKE SCIENCE.

    Fauci et al may not be as bad as they can be… but they ARE as bad as they ARE.

    And that’s evil enough.

  95. metamars says:
    @Mevashir

    I’ve seen a report, years ago, of research showing how labor demands could be defused by having employees just talk about their concerns with sympathetic-sounding representatives of management. The company never actually did anything about their employees’ concerns, but they did take the edge off their concerns, notwithstanding.

    That is what it is, and it seems awfully unfair to blame RU for providing a forum that may inadvertently withdraw energy from potentially fruitful activism.

    For more of an activism focused effort, see Steve (“action, action, action”) Bannon’s war room pandemic show, especially interviews of Dan Schultz (of precinctstrategy.com) and Naomi Wolf ( dailyclout.io ). See also interviews of Pam Popper by, e.g., Spiro Skouras. I think all these folks’ efforts deserve support, though the precinctstrategy is limited to Republicans. (Google Benjamin Yee for insights into reforming the Democratic party)

    You can also keep an eye on my own Voter’s Revenge project. I am finally moving forward with the “reimagined” version (by paying other people, out my meager funds, to do so.) See votersrevenge.info.

    The re-imagined Voter’s Revenge will have real time chatting, but will THROTTLE such use for the worker bee (“wrangler” and “voteslinger”) users, as well as followers and visitors. Only admins (“sheriffs” and “deputies”) will have no limits on their chats.

    As the app will try to funnel people into local groups, meeting face-to-face, like in the good old days, will be very achievable. While I’m cool with locals meeting for purely social reasons, it is hoped that locals of like mind will use their 1st Amendment rights to grow their posses (i.e., groups), to the point where they can meaningfully exert political muscle, and “fire” incumbents who serve them, badly.

    • Replies: @Mevashir
  96. metamars says:
    @Emslander

    Sorry, I don’t have much time for long discussions.

    I will say that, in the case of covid-related “science”, part of the game that is played is to suppress RCT’s (the holy grail of experimentation in fields where there are lots of confounders, like biomed). These will typically be suppressed by not funding them, to begin with.

    (On a sort of personal note, I get almost ill when I read, for the millionth time, that X research won’t be done because the results can’t be patented. True enough, Big Pharma isn’t going to fund research they can’t profit off of. However, the US Government has deeper pockets than all of Big Pharma put together. Likewise, the public could crowd-fund such research.)

    However, if memory serves, the game also involves killing research that disfavors the “winner” that the power hierarchy wants, if it’s already in the works, even at the recruiting state. In particular, there was some sort of head-to-head study of remdesevir v.s hydroxycholorquine, that Fauci killed. It was probably during the brou-ha-ha that resulted when the crap articles, using fudged Surgisphere data, appeared in the Lancet and NEJM, and were subsequently retracted.

    People who fail to notice that liars like Fauci, who say “there no evidence of efficacy for X”, when they mean specifically RCTs that they themselves are suppressing, are at best ignorant. The public facing lie is “no evidence” and “just anecdotes” for what can, in fact, be reams of clinical evidence. Consider ivermectin…..

    Lying by omission is still lying….

    • Agree: Alfred
  97. @JVC

    The thing I do not understand is why there is such insistence on the universal jab.

    I go back further. When lockdowns in my area began, due to COVID “deaths”, the numbers of those dying from the dreaded disease were identical to those reported for seasonal flu in the previous quarter. When checking the following quarter, seasonal flu deaths were not being reported.
    Why was there an insistence on banning treatments that had successfully treated corona virus effects in past? Physicians were ordered not to use Chloroquine and Ivermectin, despite reports of success.
    The more curious piece was the ever changing narrative about the virus and different strains. More than six months ago governments were quietly admitting that the pure virus has never been isolated. If you haven’t isolated a virus, how do you create a vaccine for it? I had known since SARS (1) that flu vaccines had an efficacy rate between 18-44%. Why would a vaccine with no clinical trials be any better, particularly when they didn’t know what the virus was?
    I used to work in the health care system. It is like a temple with MDs as the high priests and nurses as the temple “virgins”, all the opinions of all others, regardless of how sensible, are ignored for the most part. If you work in the system, you have to believe in the faith and dogma the temple demands. It’s only when you step away that you can see it is the politics of medicine that matters, not the patients.
    Well hidden from us was Dr. Stefan Lanka’s court case from 2017 https://anonhq.com/anti-vaxxer-biologist-stefan-lanka-bets-100k-measles-isnt-virus-wins-german-federal-supreme-court/
    and the financial benefits. There are literally dozens of others like Lanka who are ignored and/or silenced because they challenge the dogma of the temple. Even those like Nobel Prize winner Dr. Luc Montagnier, who believe in the dogma, are attacked when challenging the wisdom of the vaccine.
    At the end of the day, there is no proof that the vaccine, like every other vaccine in the past 60 years, will be any more effective, particularly if what it is supposed to be vaccinating against, is unknown. All of the above leads me to conclude “It’s all about the Benjamins”.

    • Agree: Bugey libre
    • Thanks: kali
  98. Crass says:

    The Bank for International Settlements controlled Countries, are all singing from the same hymn sheet on the fraudulent Covid narrative, that hey had to update the dictionary definition of the word Vaccine.

    They now included mRNA Gene Therapy, under the definition of vaccine. It is well known and admitted, that the mRNA Gene Therapy Poison Jab, will not prevent you from getting SARS-CoV-2 (or whatever they are calling the Seasonal Influenza today), nor from transmitting the virus, if and when you catch it.

    Calling the mRNA Gene Therapy Jab a vaccine, is ostensibly an imbeciles misnomer, but evidently a criminal conspiracy between Big Pharma, our governments of occupation and the Lügenpresse.

  99. If the COVID vaxxes were such a good thing, do you think they’d let the proles have them?

    The science that reaches me each day about SARS-Cov-2, about COVID and how it transmits, and about promising therapeutics and vaccines are contradictory in so many ways, that all my reasonable mind can conclude is that I don’t have enough information to know if I must personally take any more protective actions than I did during influenza outbreaks in years prior.

    What I do know is this:

    1) Once vaccinated, I can’t be unvaccinated. I am along for the ride into the unknown-unknown;

    2) There is no long-term safety history … see #1;

    3) Just because any of the vaxxes have been injected in hundreds of millions of arms, and hundreds of millions of people have not yet died, this is no indication that these experimental vaxxes are safe … see #2;

    4) The vaccine safety reporting systems of major developed countries show tens of thousands of deaths and more than a million adverse events “coincidental” with administration of vaccines; while the numbers are relatively small when compared to hundreds of millions of vaccinations, they’re still orders of magnitude larger than for all other vaxxes combined and counted since 1990… see #3;

    I run through the OODA loop every day, and almost every day the data says, do nothing different from the day before, except for the recent news that the vaxxed can contract and transmit the bug to me, which means I need to avoid the vaxxed like a plague … they’re more dangerous to me than I am to them or other unvaxxed people.

    • Agree: BaronAsh, John Wear
  100. Alfred says:

    I have commented here long before the organised panic about a virus that is almost harmless to young, healthy people.

    Even before the arrival of COVID, there was evidence that children who are unvaccinated have far fewer visits to the doctor. The study below has been redacted – that is what happens when Big Pharma does not approve.

    This study was based on one large medical practice. The fact that no one else seems to have tried reproducing it speaks volumes. The climate of intimidation is prevalent in research of this type.

    children who received 90 to 95% of the CDC-recommended vaccines for their age group were about 25 times more likely than the unvaccinated group to see the pediatrician for an appointment related to fever.

    Groundbreaking Study Shows Unvaccinated Children Are Healthier Than Vaccinated Children

    • Replies: @res
    , @kali
  101. @Rahan

    Learned a lot about “the Jew-brain” from this webzine, but I do not understand the Jewish passion about being “jabbed.”

    Without a doubt media is the primary manufacturer of the hysteria, and Jews are the primary owners of media and formulators of the propaganda.

    Are Jews even more readily brought to paranoia by Jewish-produced propaganda than are some non-Jews?

    Edit: just remembered an argument Atzmon makes, about Keeping Rules vs applying logic.
    Are Jews so totally conditioned to fear “illness” and conform to diktats, vs. a less compulsive approach by non-Jews?

    • Replies: @Alfred
  102. Here’s an excellent summary of the Corona Chan “pandemic” and the issue of off-label cures vs “vaccines”, by an actual American ICU nurse.

    If what this lady has to say doesn’t induce some critical thinking, then Lord knows what will.

    https://www.redvoicemedia.com/video/2021/08/video-icu-nurse-youre-being-lied-to-about-covid/

  103. @orchardist

    Yeah, damn good work. (none of my “action on this comment” buttons work)

  104. @gottlieb

    The ‘jabs’ are not vaccines as much as they are new fangled flu shots which do not prevent the contracting of disease, but only mitigate symptoms.

    And yet, in the same spirit that makes 2+2=5, the dictionary and authoritative sources that defined vaccines have all been change to qualify the experimental genetic therapeutics as vaccines.

    You and I and hundreds of thousands of thinking humans (did you see the streets of Paris today?) have figured out what these things are not, but more likely than not, we will become a Stalinist statistic when our existence makes the elite too uncomfortable as the curtains are drawn and the vaxxed masses realise they’ve been duped.

    • Agree: meamjojo
  105. @Bugey libre

    Look at what your neighbours in Germany have enacted into law (unofficial translation):

    Law for the Prevention and Control of Infectious Diseases in Humans (Infection Protection Law) §21

    In the case of a protective vaccination ordered on the basis of this law or one publicly recommended by the highest state health authority or a vaccination according to § 17a paragraph 2 of the Soldiers Act, vaccines may be used that contain microorganisms that can be excreted by the vaccinated and ingested by other people. The basic right to physical integrity (Article 2, Paragraph 2, Clause 1 of the Basic Law) is restricted in this respect.

    source: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/ifsg/__21.html as at 15 Aug 2021 22:35 CET

    That’s thinking a longer game … self-spreading vaxxes.

    • Agree: BaronAsh
    • Thanks: Bugey libre
    • Replies: @BaronAsh
  106. Skeptikal says:
    @Mustapha Mond

    The CEO of Pfizer is already announcing huge profits and expected future profits to shareholders.
    That’s what you get when you have a government-sanctioned monopoly and can then raise prices at will.

    I am really surprised that Ron Unz supports this “get out of jail but not for free” tax on citizens. They don’t call the game Monopoly for nothing!

    • Replies: @meamjojo
  107. @gottlieb

    The key takeaway from Event 201, the simulation exercise run by Gates was that a select board composed of elites from both private industry and government would be empowered to run the world in the event of an outbreak of a Corona virus epidemic. Lo and behold, not two months after the simulation, such a plague broke out. How stupid they think we are. Possibly, Ron Unz has been clued in to either get on board or lose his seat at the table.

    From the Johns Hopkins website:

    “The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security in partnership with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation hosted Event 201, a high-level pandemic exercise on October 18, 2019, in New York, NY. The exercise illustrated areas where public/private partnerships will be necessary during the response to a severe pandemic in order to diminish large-scale economic and societal consequences.”

    and the following by Norbert Haering [who] is a German commentator who also writes in English:

    “In October, 2019 Microsoft founder Bill Gates, who, together with his wife, runs the richest and most powerful foundation in the world, co-organised a simulation exercise on a worldwide corona epidemic. Videos were posted documenting the exercise. But intriguingly Gates now denies such an exercise ever took place.

    Why? On April 12, 2020, Bill Gates said in an interview to the BBC, “Now here we are. We didn’t simulate this, we didn’t practice, so both the health policies and economic policies, we find ourselves in uncharted territory.”

    This is the same person who, just six months before the outbreak of the pandemic, organised a series of four role-playing simulations of a corona pandemic with very high-ranking participants. Event 201 was a simulation of a corona pandemic conducted by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, the World Economic Forum and Johns Hopkins University in October 2019.

    Participants from the private and public sectors were presented with a scenario, not unlike the one that has unfolded in reality, and discussed what needed to be done. There are official videos of the four meetings and a best-of-video scenario presentation and discussion by the participants, who are members of a pandemic control council in the role play.

    It is true that if a little less emphasis had been placed on opinion manipulation, more attention could have been paid to health and economic policy. One of the four meetings was entirely devoted to this. But health and economic policies did get discussed. Gates can hardly have forgotten that.

    The video on control of public opinion is the most interesting one, as it helps to put in perspective the efforts in this regard, which we are currently experiencing. One participant tells us that Bill Gates is financing work on algorithms which comb through the information on social media platforms to make sure that people can trust the information that they find there.

    And the Chinese participant, the head of the Chinese Centre for Disease Control muses about ways to counter rumours that the virus is man-made. Remember, this exercise took place in October 2019, before the current pandemic broke out.”

    https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/recommendations.html

    • Agree: BaronAsh
  108. meamjojo says:

    I am NOT an anti-vaxxer. I get the flu vaccine shot yearly and have all my other required vaccines.

    What I am is an ardent mRNA/DNA refusenik because I don’t believe that this new technology has been sufficiently tested over a long enough period of time.

    For those who care to read this research paper, you’ll learn why the new mRNA/DNA so-called vaccines (they are really gene therapy shots per the Moderna SEC 10Q filing) don’t work as well as natural immunity and why, because of “non-sterilizing immunity” they help more Covid variants mutate off of the base virus.

    Additionally, these vaccines can also cause antibody enhancement problems that will likely lead to more autoimmune diseases in the future for those who took the mRNA/.DNA vaccines. That is at least three reasons why I won’t be taking these new vaccines!

    https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/e89cbef5-70d5-4555-89a9-32f2402dd1aa/SARS2parentsReview_CoueyJJ.pdf

  109. BaronAsh says:
    @gottlieb

    Well said. Since I can’t ‘Agree’ for some reason, let me just add:
    I think those who are trying to limit all discussions about covid and/or the mRNA shots to remaining within a science/medicine only container are being reasonable but also mistaken, for covid is as much a geopolitical event (I believe part of asymmetric warfare now ongoing, but that is merely a guess) as it is a medical one.

    To insist that science is a pure field divorced from politics, business or modern warfare is at this point an extreme position, as are many of the urgings we are all receiving daily to surrender our rights, surrender informed consent, surrender to submitting to a procedure which many of us know has a higher than average probability of causing us harm (such as the dilemma faced by parents of young children, those with immune system issues and those who have recovered from the virus to name but an obvious few).

    To my mind, the main issue with all this is not to vax or not to vax, but rather to be coerced into adopting extremism as a way of thought, a way of life including new norms of governance and citizenship.

    I am disappointed in @Ron’s position in all this because although he keeps insisting he doesn’t care a whit about the vaccine issue per se, he does seem to care greatly that the stresses so many are feeling in the wake of the new Authoritarianism infecting our entire international body politic are inappropriate to express.

    Put another way: given the extraordinary degree of misinformation, outright lying, mixed messaged, untrustworthy players like Pfizer or the USG or the CDC or the WHO or the CCP government etc., how on earth can any reasonable person make a well-informed, reasonable choice about how to proceed? And I am not just talking about the shot, but about many other choices which will be coming up soon as rights and norms are being steadily stripped away. The vaccine is just a small – but very particular and poignant – part of a much wider dynamic which again I believe is part of an asymmetric war being waged against the old nation state model (more or less) and some new, as yet undefined, world order model.

    In any case: I had it last year I think but live in a country with difficult testing facilities which I wouldn’t trust at all, I have chronic immune system issues from Lyme Disease and therefore will not be taking the shot. It means I probably won’t be able to travel to see my family, but that’s the price ‘they’ are forcing me to pay. It’s wrong; it’s not based on any sane science; and yet that’s what’s happening.

    And the worst is yet to come. Most wars last a good few years. We’re not through Year 2 yet…

    • Agree: ariadna
    • Replies: @windwaves
  110. Mevashir says:
    @metamars

    Thank you for all of this excellent information. I wish you much success with your own website project.

    That is what it is, and it seems awfully unfair to blame RU for providing a forum that may inadvertently withdraw energy from potentially fruitful activism.

    If this were an inadvertent consequence then I would agree with you. But increasingly I believe that this in fact is the entire raison d’etre of RU.

    • Agree: Kapyong
    • Replies: @Question Mark
  111. @Roger

    That’s weak, Roger.

    If you can’t apply your purported standards, then what good was your comment?

    • Agree: Catdog
    • Replies: @Roger
  112. “I didn’t know or care anything about the vaxx issue one way or the other”

    Strange. My own belief is that the vaxx wasn’t developed for Covid, Covid was developed for the vaxx. A vital topic imo.

    • Agree: Skeptikal
    • Replies: @Thomasina
    , @Thomasina
  113. Skeptikal says:
    @Rahan

    Unfortunately, they is not a singular nutter.

    • LOL: Rahan
  114. anarchyst says:
    @Dumbo

    This is just my opinion, of course, but think about it…
    The mRNA “vaccines” are delayed reaction substances that will not make their true purpose known for 18 months to two years. The COVID “flu” is relatively innocuous and is no different than the seasonal flu variant. In fact, seasonal flu statistics are nonexistent as all flu cases are now considered to be COVID.
    Since the so-called mRNA “vaccines” are “leaky” substances that cause “shedding” and DO spread the “spike” protein throughout the body contrary to the claims of the “experts”, it is easy to see the ulterior motives that the “powers that be” have. Bill Gates, having NO medical credentials is at the forefront of worldwide depopulation “by any means necessary”. He has publicly advocated the use of “vaccines” to effect “population control” either by outright causing death or sterilization of those who receive his “poison” agents.
    These mRNA “vaccines” are long-acting agents that will not make their true purpose known for 18 months to two years. This has the effect of delinking “cause and effect”, thereby absolving the mRNA “vaccines” as either the causes of death, sterilization of miscarriages.
    Once the mRNA “vaccine” along with its protein spikes is in the body, subsequent introductions of “new” viral components will amplify the effect of these poisonous substances. The long “time frame” assures that mRNA “vaccines” will not be blamed for the results.
    That being said: DO NOT TAKE THE POISONS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!

    • Agree: Skeptikal
    • Thanks: Je Suis Omar Mateen
  115. Liza says:
    @ThreeCranes

    Listen up, friend. People “believe” in vaccines like they believe in a religion they’ve been born into and heavily indoctrinated in. This religious-strength belief is based in a view of life of which one aspect is the Germ Theory of Pasteur, i.e., there are bad invisible things floating about the air, and hiding out in people’s bodies, which can either kill you or make you feel very, very bad. Further, these little entities – “germs” – were placed here by a malevolent God wanting to hurt us for no reason whatsoever. This outlook on life is so deep you may as well forget about trying to get anyone to look past it.

    Some high IQ types may reject the corona 19 vaccine but never, ever think to have a deeper look at vaccination in general. They will not trouble themselves to read any well-written book by qualified doctors or scientists. Their brains are not structured in that way. They need to have a child dead or badly damaged shortly after vaccination in infancy – that’s what does the trick, for some of them anyway. (I know two such persons.) It takes that kind of trauma. You can find their stories if you look, Google jiggery pokery notwithstanding.

    Therefore, you can present the best info in the world and hidebound brains simply cannot absorb it.

  116. I have a friend who respects everyone’s right to get the vax or not and is willing to tell people his views calmly and succinctly why he has decided not to. He has been shouted at and called a baby killer by militant pro-shot people and it’s got to the point where he doesn’t tell people any more if he’s vaxed or not. He’s told me he doesn’t need the stress. The last time a person asked him if he had taken the vax, his answer was, “I’ve had all my vaccinations.” Meaning all his childhood vaccinations. He wishes the governments in the world would just leave it to a personal choice, but it’s obvious that this isn’t part of the plan. They’ll keep on using every tactic in the book to hound the people who haven’t had the shot.

    • Agree: meamjojo
  117. Skeptikal says:
    @Mevashir

    “The people who don’t take the jab allegedly become human petri dishes for the virus to mutate into more virulent forms that threaten the jabbed folks.”

    The “petri dish” image is IMO nonsense—disgustingly evocative but a childish product of fevered imaginations.

    Many otherwise smart people can no longer grasp a very simple concept: natural selection—evolution driven by selection pressure.

    Presumably many fairly intelligent persons were able to “get” it in Biology 101 and hence to pass the course. One of the “textbook” examples: the speed with which a species of white moths evolved into grey moths under the selection pressure of increasing industrialization and consequent soot. The random mutation that produced dark-gray moths allowed many more of them to escape their natural predators, birds, whereas the white birds, against grey sooty surfaces, were ever more visible to the birds.

    A leaky vaccine does not kill all the viruses but only some. Leaving some to mutate, this creates a selection pressure, a nudge, for random mutations by the variants that escape the vaccine. Some of them will be more lethal or more something else.

    It then stands to reason that others who have been jabbed are less likely to be able to fight off the new variant than unjabbed persons with healthy immune systems. The latter are more likely to have full-body armor. The former, maybe just a shield.

  118. @dearieme

    Dr. Mike Yeadon who was the former chief scientist at Pfizer, who should be in a position to know what the Pfizer shot is all about is against people taking these shots. He stresses that he is an advocate of regular vaccines and says that anyone who is against regular vaccines is an idiot, but these covid shots aren’t vaccines in what we normally consider vaccines to be. Here he lays it all out:


    • Agree: BaronAsh
    • Replies: @meamjojo
  119. Roger says:
    @Exalted Cyclops

    OK, thanks for the explanation. It seems we are in agreement.

  120. Deltaeus says:

    Thank you Ron Unz for considering creating a space for rational debate on this complex and subtle topic.
    We can’t be sure how it will work out (I hope we’re not overwhelmed by one-eyed zealots on both sides), but I salute your courage and integrity.

    • Agree: Rahan
  121. Roger says: • Website
    @Greta Handel

    My comment was intended to show support for Ron Unz in deciding to tighten down the screws on the comments. That is all. It is his blog. He has the sole right to determine what the rules are for commenting. I am completely on board with this and will back him vigorously.

    Here is the Comment Policy at my own blog. It stands as is until I decide to amend it. I do not care one bit whether anyone likes it or not.

    “All comments to this blog are monitored and approved or rejected before posting under the following criteria:

    1. Approval will be made if the Comment is respectful, well-reasoned, insightful, and/or contributes to the discussion in a positive way.  Opposing viewpoints are welcome and encouraged as long as they are written in a spirit of goodwill and peaceful debate.

    2. Comments which are profane, insulting, obscene, slanderous, derogatory, racist, vile, etc., will be deleted without posting at the sole discretion of the Moderator. In other words, keep it clean.”

  122. @skrik

    [*One* deliberate lie kills *all* credibility.]

    It does for me. The Lancet published a deliberate lie in the completely fraudulent Surgisphere paper which purported to be a meta-analysis of HCQ studies. There was no study at all. In my view The Lancet committed scientific fraud by publishing the fake paper. The paper was retracted but it had served its purpose; the WHO cancelled a large HQC study that was all set to go. It wasn’t reinstated when the paper was proved to be fraudulent. Why not?

    • Agree: Bert
    • Thanks: Nancy
    • Replies: @RawDaddy
  123. anonymous[411] • Disclaimer says:
    @Robert Dolan

    And did you then stop getting the flu?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @anonymous
  124. Raches says:
    @Greta Handel

    Mr. Unz should state plainly whether he supports mandatory injections of the Pfizer, etc., products for others.

    First of all, at the time that the previous thread was closed, I wanted to correct what I said previously about this. Because I was wrong; and when I am wrong, I prefer correcting myself to having someone else do it for me.

    All of the people who have been demanding an answer to this question must have failed to read the interview. Mr. Unz already answered it. It was so easy to miss what he said about this, because he rendered it in bold letters:

    As for the vaccines, one major problem that’s now been discovered is that they don’t seem very effective in preventing vaccinated people from infecting others, so there doesn’t seem much reason for the government to forcibly require vaccinations. Relative to vaccinated people, the unvaccinated don’t harm others as much as themselves.

    I don’t know how I missed that middle part myself. I am usually a careful reader. The best that I can say for myself is that I was more focused on other issues; I did register what Mr. Unz said about vaccine efficacy. Mr. Unz’s opinion of the vaccines themselves is keenly interesting to me, because he may or may not influence my own decision-making process. I was also interested in what he said about the efficacy of lockdowns, about China, and some other issues that seem to have fallen by the wayside here. But to me, his opinion of forced vaccination is only of academic interest; for he does not control government policy, and he is unlikely to change my opinion (which is strongly against it here, but is more complex than you probably assume).

    Furthermore, I was tired and in haste (as I have been with throughout too much of this discussion), and I hadn’t had enough coffee, and my dog ate my—OK! I made a mistake. It happens. To be human is to err. But please do not expect for this to occur frequently: I am sometimes accused of being inhuman.

    And first of all, why is it so important that Mr. Unz must answer this question? There are only three conceivable reasons why it could be so important:

    1. If Mr. Unz had the power to set government policy. As I already observed, he does not.

    2. If Mr. Unz is your acknowledged leader, and you are awaiting your orders on what policy you shall endorse. Hail Unz!

    No, this does not invoke Godwin’s Law: I admire Hitler. In principle, at least, I would not criticize you for following an authoritarian leader. But if that be the case, please clarify that you are asking Mr. Unz for orders to obey. Furthermore, I am not aware of Mr. Unz ever having offered such leadership—or even having suggested that it was a good idea.

    3. You wish to subject Mr. Unz to a political litmus test, and burn him at the stake if he expresses an opinion outside your window of acceptable thoughts. I don’t recall seeing anywhere on this site any policies stipulating that such tests shall be applied—much less that they shall be applied to the site’s owner. Demanding that he comply with such a test would be an unbecoming way to treat a host who is providing us a platform to discuss opinions which are disagreeable to him, and which are censored almost everywhere else nowadays.

    Really. Who cares what Mr. Unz opines on this particular point? Without wishing to insult the importance of his opinions, please keep this in perspective. How would his opinion affect you—in real, practical terms—beyond giving you either an affirmation of your own opinion, or opposition for a debate?

    Hypothetically, if—as you seem to fear—he were to express an opinion that you found reprehensible, please keep in mind that Mr. Unz regularly permits here the expression of opinions that many people find reprehensible—no doubt including some that he himself deems absolutely horrible. If he were to endorse a policy that I deemed beyond the pale, then I would take that as an opportunity to rebut it in no uncertain terms, to declare it a disaster, and to explain why it must be resisted at all costs, by all possible means. Then, I would thank him duly for granting me the freedom of speech to tell him publicly why he is horrendously wrong—where everyone else can see it, and others may tend to agree with me. That is a courtesy that your government will not extend to you.

    If you fear that he may hold in his head some thoughts you deem horrible, that is a matter of policing thoughtcrime and rooting out heresy. I’ve got matches. Do you have a handy stake?

    __________

    For my own part, I have some further thoughts on the specter of potential forced vaccination. I will reserve them for a future comment.

    I would prefer if we could talk more about the issues, and less about Mr. Unz, Mr. Unz’s motives, Mr. Unz’s “hesitancy” about getting jabbed with political litmus tests, and other things which do not affect my decision about the vaccines. I reply to these comments because I think that adequately addressing them helps to keep the discussion fair—and to avoid having our host change his mind about this again. However, I wish that we could focus. Is the vaccine issue important, or is it not? Inevitably, Ron Unz is a part of the story at The Unz Review; but as I keep saying, let us please keep these matters in proper perspective.

    • Agree: Bugey libre
  125. John Wear says:

    An important point in this debate is that prominent opponents of the COVID-19 shots are being silenced. The following are some examples:

    1. Brandy Vaughn, a very vocal opponent of mandatory vaccinations, conveniently died in December 2020. Comment number 1405 in the previous discussion thread documents some of the intimidation tactics used against her.

    2. Dr. Joseph Mercola, D.O., who had run a very popular website for 25 years, shut down his website about two weeks ago. I suspect he was forced to do so.

    3. Kary Mullis, who invented the RT-PCR test used to detect COVID-19, said his test shouldn’t be used to diagnose infectious diseases. Mullis conveniently died in August 2019, so he is not around for interviews.

    4. Samples from papaya fruit and a goat sent to a testing lab by Tanzanian President John Magufuli, using fictitious human names and ages, tested positive for COVID-19. Unfortunately, John Magufuli soon died at age 61.

    5. Other national leaders who contest the official COVID-19 narrative such as Haitian President Jovenel Moise and Burundi President Pierre Nkurunziza are dying at relatively young ages and being replaced by leaders who support the official COVID-19 narrative.

    On a positive note, Dr. Carrie Madej, D.O. left Atlanta in 2015 for the Dominican Republic because she felt her life was in danger. She is now back doing interviews. I highly recommend this 43-minute interview to all open-minded people.

    • Replies: @Liza
    , @The Real World
  126. I’m interested in what both sides have to say regarding vaccinations for Covid. It is obvious that there is cause for concern over this new miracle technology. But when people keep throwing statistics at me I become skeptical as to just how good those statistics are and how they’re being used. Is there information being left out? How would I know. When this vaccine first came out I went to my county website and signed up for the vaccine. I never heard back from them though I knew I was eligible for the shot due to my age. Then I began to hear about deaths and injury associated with the vaccine. I’m not anti-science, but I distrust the MSM since they’ve lied on far too many things of great importance before. And that is what this all boils down to, who do you trust. Right now I don’t trust anyone. When I read MSM news articles on this topic I notice they often slip in little bits of information that contradicts their own framing of the story, then they continue on their merry way as if that information did not exist. It always gives me the feeling that I’m being lied to. And that is a huge problem for everyone on both sides of this argument.

    • Agree: Sollipsist
  127. Raches says:
    @Roger

    2. Comments which are profane, insulting, obscene, slanderous, derogatory, racist, vile, etc., will be deleted without posting at the sole discretion of the Moderator. In other words, keep it clean.”

    I agree with you that Mr. Unz should impose stricter moderation on the vaccine discussion than he usually applies; and of course, your blog is your business. Off-topic, I am just curious about what you do with polite, highly cultured racists.

    • Replies: @Roger
  128. anon[413] • Disclaimer says:

    Recently I came to the conclusion that Unz is a wanna-be establishment suck up.

    Unz loves the death stab injections. The more untested the better seems to be his mantra. He breathlessly attacks rational adults who avoid getting stabbed with untested garbage as “anti-vaxxers”.
    Does Unz know the stab is 99.9% graphene oxide, a know poison and superconductor? Hey Unz, read me a story about graphene oxide. Get the material data safety sheet you schmuck.
    Seems unz knows little, as usual.
    Just another mouthy, lying kike.
    Jews suck.
    Every time.

    • Troll: Raches, ariadna
  129. Tom Verso says:
    @thotmonger

    You write:
    “Because a lot of the information circulating parading as science is political, hyperbole, hypocritical, confused and generally laced with lots of corporate greed or brainwashing.”

    Yes. That is true.

    But as I wrote:

    “[Ron. Unz] is highly educated in science and can easily ascertain the difference between comments that are informed by references to competent scientific credentialed authorities and objective statistical database research and analysis.”

    He is quite capable of differentiating “information Parading as science” from genuine scince.

    As editor he can weed out the “parade” and publish genuine science. If he did he would be doing a great service.

    • Replies: @Herald
  130. Anonymous[176] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    I also took the flu shot for quite a few years. Wound up with multiple upper respiratory infections during the year. Explored all possibilities of what could be causing these “infections.” When I thought that the flu shot just might be the culprit I stopped taking them. No more upper respiratory problems. Of course when I explained this to my “educated, scientist, Dr., she rolled her eyes. Eye rolling seems to be a trait of the highly educated.

  131. @Tom Verso

    So what is the problem?

    22-30% of Republicans claim to be pro-mRNA jabbers. This group includes the wealthy Republican elite and upper middle-class, which is why there has been no serious pushback against the mandates. Ron Unz is a rich jew. He socializes and financially networks with these people. It is in their social and financial interest to magnify the Covid threat and push for the universal vaccination of dirt people.

    Taking an anti-mRNA jab position would be worse, for Ron, than providing a “free speech” platform for gullible racists, anti-semites, and holyhoax revisionists.

    • Replies: @thotmonger
    , @lysias
  132. Anonymous[326] • Disclaimer says:

    Do it for the heroes.

  133. JimDandy says:
    @Anon

    We are in a pretty dangerous situation. Those who pushed for universal vaccination aren’t going to admit they were wrong–that’s simply not an option–so they will be forced to tell bigger and more blatant lies and push even harder to force everyone to take the jab so there won’t be a control group. (And so profits will continue to grow exponentially.) A young healthy person with virtually no chance of dying from Covid is faced with the choice of “taking their chances” with the virus, or taking an experimental, defective vaccine and subsequent booster shots in perpetuity? This is madness. And it’s getting worse by the day. Biden is considering restricting state-to-state travel for the unvaccinated. He is mulling over the possibility of withdrawing federal funds from institutions that don’t impose vaxx mandates on their employees. Anyone who can’t understand why many people are upset by these developments is being disingenuous or has some kind of a mental block.

    • Agree: Mark G.
  134. meamjojo says:
    @Skeptikal

    The CEO of Pfizer is already announcing huge profits and expected future profits to shareholders.
    That’s what you get when you have a government-sanctioned monopoly and can then raise prices at will.

    August 1, 2021
    Pfizer and Moderna raise prices for COVID-19 vaccines in EU- FT

    Aug 1 (Reuters) – Pfizer Inc (PFE.N) and Moderna Inc (MRNA.O) have raised the prices of their COVID-19 vaccines in their latest European Union supply contracts, the Financial Times reported on Sunday.

    The new price for the Pfizer shot was 19.50 euros ($23.15)against 15.50 euros previously, the newspaper said, citing portions of the contracts seen.

    The price of a Moderna vaccine was $25.50 a dose, the contracts show, up from about 19 euros in the first procurement deal but lower than the previously agreed $28.50 because the order had grown, the report said, citing one official close to the matter.
    ….
    https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pfizer-moderna-raises-prices-its-covid-19-vaccines-eu-ft-2021-08-01/

  135. @Roger

    So how would mine do under the Comment Policy at your blog?

    • Replies: @Roger
  136. @Raches

    I tend to think in evolutionary terms; it seemed obvious to me that in our hubris and our desperation for a silver bullet, all that we may be achieving is a eugenics program to breed a new race of superviruses….

    Did not previously see that last comment in that particular topic.

    The problem with that concept is that whether we like it or not, on the individual and population scales it will happen, and we believe current variants of concern like Alpha and Delta already did in the former way. They were both first detected in October 2020 in the U.K. and India respectively, when their only possible vaccine related origin would have been from the rare individuals in clinical trials, as populations both countries were far from having enough immunity, natural or vaccine, to supply an ecological population selection pressure.

    The theory here, and I’m told it’s been observed in real life, is that an ecological battle in an individual can arise where the best variant wins and manages to propagate beyond that individual. Specifically we now know that at location 681 in the spike protein, the Original Formula classic Wuhan proline there can be replaced with with amino acids that cause the protein to fuse much better with ACE2 receptors (although I just came across this paper which echoes some of my other reading that more than just a mutation there may be required).

    And thus Alpha and Delta are sequentially more transmissible, in turn Alpha first generally replacing classic Wuhan, and Delta now replacing Alpha. This despite Alpha also being significantly more lethal than classic Wuhan, and that’s looking to be true for Delta compared to Alpha, both variants are overall more “fit.” Vaccinate people or not, there’s nothing we can do to stop this mechanism of variant creation for the foreseeable future.

    We can envision immunity getting enough prevalence that classic evolution at the population level occurs, the virus starts hitting brick walls and “evolves or dies.” As transmissible as Delta seems to be, it would seem likely this would happen without vaccines, although that’s not an “experiment” we can run in the real world. Thus while there are dangers, it doesn’t seem axiomatic that speeding up the point in which we get there by vaccinating large fractions of the human population is going to make a qualitative difference, and the benefit could in the long term be much less morbidity and mortality for those who get vaccinated.

    Which is also true for those who had mild enough cases of classic Wuhan before Alpha became dominant, and in turn the same for Alpha and Delta. They may in fact have better overall immunity to Delta because unlike current Western vaccines natural immunity includes attacking other viral proteins. Unfortunately they are per my reading ones hidden beneath the virus’ envelope, meaning they can only be attacked in already hijacked cells, which is also a requirement for CD8+ cytotoxic T cells. Whereas enough good neutralizing antibodies to the spike protein can prevent viruses from ever attacking cells. And we can of course in the future include one or more of these proteins as antigens in future generations of vaccines.

    In the long term there’s no reason to believe the virus won’t run out of tricks, and we’ll eventually have an “eternal” vaccine for it just like we have for other RNA viruses that mutate at much higher rates like the ones that cause measles and the mumps.

    (As for masking, you are generally speaking sense as far as I know.)

    • Thanks: Raches, ic1000, emersonreturn
    • Replies: @Wild Man
    , @Raches
    , @MeaCulpa
  137. meamjojo says:
    @Joe Paluka

    “Dr. Mike Yeadon who was the former chief scientist at Pfizer, who should be in a position to know what the Pfizer shot is all about is against people taking these shots. He stresses that he is an advocate of regular vaccines and says that anyone who is against regular vaccines is an idiot, but these covid shots aren’t vaccines in what we normally consider vaccines to be.”

    Here’s the hard evidence for everyone:

    Currently, mRNA is considered a gene therapy product by the FDA. Unlike certain gene therapies that irreversibly alter cell DNA and could act as a source of side effects, mRNA-based medicines are designed to not irreversibly change cell DNA; however, side effects observed in gene therapy could negatively impact the perception of mRNA medicines despite the differences in mechanism. In addition, because no product in which mRNA is the primary active ingredient has been approved, the regulatory pathway for approval is uncertain. The number and design of the clinical trials and preclinical studies required for the approval of these types of medicines have not been established, may be different from those required for gene therapy products, or may require safety testing like gene therapy products. Moreover, the length of time necessary to complete clinical trials and to submit an application for marketing approval for a final decision by a regulatory authority varies significantly from one pharmaceutical product to the next, and may be difficult to predict.

    https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1682852/000168285220000017/mrna-20200630.htm

  138. @JimDandy

    Biden is considering restricting state-to-state travel for the unvaccinated.

    Biden eyes tougher vaccine rules without provoking backlash

    “Still, while more severe measures — such as mandating vaccines for interstate travel or changing how the federal government reimburses treatment for those who are unvaccinated and become ill with COVID-19 — have been discussed, the administration worried that they would be too polarizing for the moment.”

    https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-joe-biden-business-health-travel-d2b00a2fddc5af7b8e23afbfd2961b02

    Anyone who can’t understand why many people are upset by these developments is being disingenuous or has some kind of a mental block.

    The wealthy/upper middle-class man’s refusal to understand is a pose.

    The middle-class man’s refusal to understand is a mental block. Having crossed the Rubicon by taking the jab, he can’t afford to admit error to himself or family.

    We have more than a ban on interstate travel to be concerned about:

    Dept of Homeland Security Makes Official U.S. Government Announcement, If You Question Govt COVID Response You are Considered A Domestic Violent Extremist

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/08/14/dept-of-homeland-security-makes-official-u-s-government-announcement-if-you-question-govt-covid-response-you-are-considered-a-domestic-violent-extremist/

    This is designed to thwart informal and formal local to state-wide organization against the regime.

    The prohibition of insterstate travel for unvaccinated persons is becoming more likely.

  139. meamjojo says:
    @Roger

    UNZ will never receive mainstream acceptance as long as the usual racist authors and comments are given a platform/allowed here. That’s just reality.

    • Troll: JimDandy
    • Replies: @Roger
    , @emersonreturn
  140. anon[369] • Disclaimer says:
    @Vergissmeinnicht

    reply not solely to Verg…cht.

    Not anti vaxxer but anti poison, anti bum-rushed.

    Whether obese, diabetic, bad lungs, other, are these injectables [we don’t really know their purpose(s)] the proper therapy? From 2 doses to never ending.

    Extreme caution is warranted especially when the pushers are deceiving, lying, aggressive, censoring, moving at lightening speed to accomplish a police state.

    Why the hysteria, panic, emergency actions for a mild infection?

    If the fish smells, assume it is not safe nor healthy. Be cautious.

    5 dancing shlomos

  141. Mark G. says:

    The anti-vaxxers are facing an uphill climb here. There were some early treatment protocols developed with various nutritional supplements and inexpensive drugs to try to stop the disease from progressing to the point where the patient had to be hospitalized but not nearly enough research was done in this area. Also, the ones that were developed were never widely adopted.

    There is just too much money to be made here by drug companies selling expensive drugs, hospitals providing hospital instead of home treatment, vaccine companies selling lots of vaccines with mass vaccination campaigns followed by yearly booster shots forever, and politicians pocketing campaign donations from all these private entities who are financially benefiting here.

    You are now seeing people saying those who are not vaccinated should pay the full cost of their medical care if they get sick. I would be for this if there were easy access to any treatment option. This means over the counter or easy mail order availability of any potentially useful drugs. No one, though, should be forced into expensive treatment options and then on top of that forced to pay for that because that is all that is available.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  142. JimDandy says:
    @Oldtradesman

    Yep. And forcing the entire military to get vaccinated is such a potentially dangerous move that I don’t even want to think about it.

    https://www.revolver.news/2021/08/navy-commander-warns-national-security-threat-from-mandatory-vaccination/

  143. @Emslander

    I too have never turned down a vaccination until now, getting even flu shots each year (which I may now reconsider), and shingles the year before last.

    Thanks to Ron Unz, Raches, even TWBT (for his info-heavy later comments only), and others.

  144. MBlanc46 says:

    Thanks to Mr Unz for providing this forum.

  145. Anonymous[111] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bernard Brandt

    I was, however, hampered in my efforts by the fact that most of the information constituted trade secrets and intellectual property which was carefully guarded by the vax makers.

    Thank you for bringing up this salient point. Speaking as someone who fancied himself beyond surprise by now, I have been astonished at how many people who have received the vaccines have only the vaguest idea as to how exactly they work. As you point out, the vax makers themselves have made their wares a matter of IP and this does not help matters.

    Your post is an excellent summary of why it is I cannot bring myself to pull the trigger: there are simply too many remaining mysteries surrounding the vaccines to satisfy me. Naturally, transparency and openness would do a lot to dispel some of the mistrust surrounding them, but the order of the day seems to be, “just do as we say and all will be well.”

    No thank you.

  146. Liza says:
    @John Wear

    2. Dr. Joseph Mercola, D.O., who had run a very popular website for 25 years, shut down his website about two weeks ago. I suspect he was forced to do so.

    It seems that his website is still going. The only difference is that new articles are deleted in 48 hours.

    • Replies: @metamars
    , @John Wear
  147. It is now obvious that these are not vaccines. If you get a vaccine for smallpox, you are protected for life. These are antibody boosters that fade away over a few months, so you need more jabs for protection.

    Each jab leaves residue in the bloodstream that can clog the heart and brain, as this Canadian virologist explains:
    https://banned.video/watch?id=60ccfe51c9de0e16ffb52834

    And so does this expert:
    https://www.brighteon.com/3fa4b206-43e3-4001-83c2-5f6219453372

    And so does this expert:
    https://banned.video/watch?id=609238dcf609210fc6b0c516

    And so does this expert:

    And so does this expert:
    https://www.brighteon.com/b03d1a4e-1cf7-4db5-ab18-2dd5fe6426fa

    “Israel Sees ‘Concerning’ Surge in Cardiac Arrest And Heart Attack Emergency Calls Among Young People” http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=62460

    Is it wise for the healthy to get 20 jabs over 10 years, with each leaving more clotting residue in your blood stream? Since clots may cause troubles months or years later, no one will know the true effects of these mass clinical trials until maybe 2022 when CDCs 2021 stats appear. If death rates from stroke and heart attacks have soared, we’ll know these jabs were not a great idea for the healthy. This is why the FDA is reluctant to approve booster jabs, even though it is the same “safe” jab, so the “vaccinated” are catching COVID.

    Recall that 5 of the FDAs 17 outside experts did not vote in favor of emergency use. The FDA voted against boosters last month even though the vaccine makers warned that boosters were needed. On Friday, the FDA experts voted in favor of boosters for the unhealthy, but only after the CDC director had already authorized them Thursday night. She didn’t want to wait for the outside FDA experts to vote.

    IF THESE “VACCINES” ARE SAFE, WHY NOT OKAY BOOSTER JABS FOR EVERYONE?

    • Thanks: GazaPlanet, John Wear
    • Replies: @Raches
    , @Mulga Mumblebrain
  148. metamars says:
    @Liza

    Ah-h-h, you missed the critical point that all (or almost all) previous articles were deleted. Basically a life’s work, with much of it interviews of people at the cutting edge.

    Mercola had previously deleted a portion of his website having to do specifically covid + specific treatments, also under threat.

    This is a tragedy partly because Mercola is very open minded, and would have things that even the current crop of courageous medical leaders (like Pierre Kory) seem entirely ignorant about. E.g., treating covid (and all other upper respiratory infections) with nebulized hydrogen peroxide*. Also, I’m not 100% sure, but I think I heard about “fomentations” (nowadays: hydrotherapy) which radically reduced the deaths from Spanish flu sufferers, at Mercola’s website.

    Also gone would be articles about mitochondrial medicine, which I don’t think most doctors have a clue about. Would suggest everybody try and find youtube lectures about the evidence that many, if not most, chronic diseases are due to downstream effects of the epigenetic disregulation of mitochondria. After mitochondrial DNA damage, the cells respond to their lowered energy availability by upregulating and downregulated nuclear genes, thus favoring more evolutionarily primitive energy production mechanisms, (like fermentation.). One’s nuclear genetics strongly influence which particular disease you develop, but this is downstream of the ubiquitous mitochondrial dysfunction.

    This line of thought starts with Otto Warburg, and is proven by experiments wherein healthy mitochondria are injected (or restored; I can’t remember which) in diseased cells, bring a halt to the disease process. Also, experiments which deliberately damaged mitochondria in previously health cells.

    * note: nebulizers are hard to get, without a prescription; however, the particle size they produce is similar to cool misters; hint; hint;

    • Agree: John Wear
    • Replies: @Liza
  149. @dearieme

    I had vaccines as a baby and a kid but, none as an adult until my regular Doc at that time – 22+ years ago – somehow talked me into getting the Hepatitis B vaccine. Which I did not need and was later mad at myself for agreeing to.

    I think she was incentivized to sell it to me as that was still the era when Docs got kickbacks for things. I certainly can’t prove that vaccine caused it but, a few years later I went into a multi-year bout of myalgic encephalomyelitis (formerly known as: chronic fatigue syndrome) and it sucked.

    Anyhow, I AM anti-vax, for me. I don’t care what choices other people make in that regard for themselves. I’m 62 and don’t intend to ever get another one the rest of my life. I wouldn’t touch the Covid clot shot even with a gun to my head. Why would I do that when there are excellent Covid treatments available that have far more medical history than that slapped-together toxin?

    P.S. Do some research on: adjuvants. They are what have caused real problems for many people with traditional vaccines.

    • Agree: John Wear
  150. Raches says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    It is now obvious that these are not vaccines. If you get a vaccine for smallpox, you are protected for life. These are antibody boosters that fade away over a few months, so you need more jabs for protection.

    So, what do you call a tetanus vaccine? For only one of many obvious examples. Is this really the first time that you have ever heard of a booster shot?

    This nonsensical anti-vaxxer political correctness in redefining the word “vaccine” is annoying, although it is a good indicator of credibility.

    [links to four (4) different videos]

    Browsing around in an unrelated thread, I happened across a good term from Thorfinnsson:

    Please post links to text articles. Video peasants must be executed.

    It’s a shame that you handle it this way—because I think that you conclude with a shrilly hysterical and factually questionable expression, CONCLUDED IN ALL CAPS, of what actually could be some valid concerns, in the “kernel of truth” sense. Serious people won’t pay attention to your comment; your thought process is locking you in an echo chamber, where you bounce the same ideas back and forth with people who already agree with you.

    Please consider this to be a tip on how to improve your style of public communications by improving the substance of your thought process: Step back, take a deep breath, apply logic, and the rest comes naturally. You want to persuade people, right? Start by thinking straight.

  151. cmh says:

    Take a look at Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche’s statements and arguments against mass vaccination during a Pandemic. And the key to his view is “during the pandemic”.

    Geert has many degrees including a PhD in virology from University of Hohenheim. He’s worked with the Bill & Melinda Gates foundation, GAVI, and has worked extensively with vaccine R & D with several Vaccine companies. He also partnered with W.H.O., and has worked in academia.

    Here is an excerpt of why (his blog also has a section on the Science behind his statement):

    https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/post/c-19-pandemia-quo-vadis-homo-sapiens

    The WHO’s mass vaccination program has been installed in response to a public health emergency of international concern. As of the early days of the mass vaccination campaigns, at least a few experts have been warning against the catastrophic impact such a program could have on global and individual health. Mass vaccination in the middle of a pandemic is prone to promoting selection and adaptation of immune escape variants that are featured by increasing infectiousness and resistance to spike protein (S)-directed antibodies (Abs), thereby diminishing protection in vaccinees and threatening the unvaccinated. This already explains why the WHO’s mass vaccination program is not only unable to generate herd immunity (HI) but even leads to substantial erosion of the population’s immune protective capacity. As the ongoing universal mass vaccination program will soon promote dominant propagation of highly infectious, neutralization escape mutants (i.e., so-called ‘S Ab-resistant variants’), naturally acquired, or vaccinal neutralizing Abs, will, indeed, no longer offer any protection to immunized individuals whereas high infectious pressure will continue to suppress the innate immune defense system of the nonvaccinated.

    I’d also recommend his interview with Chris Martensen:

    Full interview with Chris Martenson:
    https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/ (under the interview section)

    Also he speaks on youtube.

  152. If you feel uncomfortable with the mRNA vaccines, you should seriously consider the old-tech chinese inactivated virus vaccines if you can get them.

    They have performed very well all over Asia and are only maybe 10-20% less effective than the mRNA vaccs, but most importantly, they have almost no adverse reactions. This old tech has been around since the 1950s, used to deal with polio and smallpox.

    It does not infect your cells. It can be given in precise doses. With the mRNA and viral vector vaccines, your cells are infected by the vaccine, and produce any amount of spike proteins, and that’s why we have the chance of adverse reactions, but also a very strong immune reaction.

    Preventing serious cases and hospitalization, all vaccines, whether mRNA or chinese inactivated virus or viral vector types like AstraZeneca or Sputnik, all protect abt 90%.

    I myself took Pfizer early this year, but I will be taking Sinovac or Sinopharm later this year or next year. I don’t like my cells being infected by mRNA or viral vectors and being forced to produce spike proteins. I only took the Pfizer because I was not able to obtain the chinese vaccines at that time.

    As it goes towards 6 months, the efficacy of Pfizer drops so much(down to 40%), we might as well take the Chinese vaccines.

    Ivermectin has been successfully used to treat many patients, but we need some large reputable studies on it. Since there is no money to be made on Ivermectin, I don’t expect this to happen.

    I don’t condemn anyone for not wanting to take vaccines, but I would advise everyone to take them, to protect themselves.

    I don’t believe unvaccinated individuals are much more of a threat to vaccinated individuals, since the DELTA variant can very easily infect vaccinated persons and vaccinated persons infected with the delta variant can pass it just as easily to others as unvaccinated persons.

    Vaccinated persons who get angry and condemn those who choose not to vaccinate are simply idiotic because they don’t understand the data and the situation. They should go and fuck themselves, or suck on Trump’s micro-dick at Mar-a-fuckhole.

    Unvaccinated people only put themselves at risk, they don’t put others at risk. It’s their choice, but I hope they vaccinate.

    This is my personal and honest viewpoint at this time.

    • Agree: dimples
    • Replies: @cmh
    , @utu
  153. From what I’ve read the vaccines work. They prevent death. I haven’t seen anything showing that they stop doing so after a period of time besides one Israeli source. I read coronavirus mutates slower than the flu so I have hopes that natural immunity and vaccinations will lead to lower hospitalizations overtime. The sensationalist media lies in order to maintain fear. We aren’t going to have herd immunity but it looks like people will probably have enough immunity to not get severely sick. The prevention of any cold caused by the coronavirus variants seems to be an end to itself which must be very lucrative for big pharma. The US media is pushing boosters while the WHO is saying western countries should stop hoarding vaccines and share them with the rest of the world.

    The mRNA and vector vaccine technology is creepy and it is odd that the US government is being combative, trying to force people to take these particular vaccines when there are alternatives like Salofi/GSK, Novavax, and Covanix. Their desire to force current vaccines on the American people almost seems to be an end to itself.

    “But here’s what we know today, based on information that we have right now: Among several wonderful options, the more old-school vaccine from Novavax combines ease of manufacture with high efficacy and lower side effects. For the moment, it’s the best COVID-19 vaccine we have.”
    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/06/novavax-now-best-covid-19-vaccine/619276/

    “[Covaxin] has an unsurpassed safety profile. With nearly 7,000,000 patients dosed to date, there is no evidence of the rare side effects or complications associated with other vaccines, including facial paralysis, blood clots and heart inflammation.”
    https://www.americanbazaaronline.com/2021/07/05/covaxin-the-best-vaccine-you-cant-get-446210/

    Of course the information on these new vaccines needs to be carefully examined but don’t they sound enticing compared to what we are allowed to have now? America’s hospitals are being stressed but it is unnerving how much they want our bodies to make spike proteins.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  154. Alfred says:

    Here is Martin Armstrong’s take on the “vaccines”. The statement below is by Jacques Attali, who at the time was the adviser to French president François Mitterrand.

    “In the future it will be about finding a way to reduce the population. We will start with the old, because as soon as he is over 60-65 years of age, man lives longer than he produces and costs society dearly. Then the weak and then the useless who do nothing for society because there will be more and more of them, and especially finally the stupid ones.

    Euthanasia targeting these groups; euthanasia will have to be an essential instrument of our future societies, in all cases. Of course, we cannot execute people or set up camps. We will get rid of it by making them believe it is for their own good. Too large a population, and for the most part unnecessary, is something economically too expensive.

    Socially, it is also much better for the human machine to come to a screeching halt rather than gradually deteriorating. We won’t be able to give intelligence tests to millions and millions of people, you can imagine!

    We will find something or cause it, a pandemic that targets certain people, a real economic crisis or not, a virus that will affect the old or the big, it doesn’t matter, the weak will succumb to it, the fearful and the stupid will believe it and ask to be treated.

    We will have taken care to have planned the treatment, a treatment that will be the solution. The selection of idiots will thus be done by themselves: they will go to the slaughterhouse on their own. “

    “The stupid will believe it and ask to be treated” – Pandemic to DePopulate 1981

  155. John Wear says:
    @Liza

    Erin Elizabeth announces that Dr. Mercola is deleting his entire archive of articles. He is posting new articles, but deleting them in 48 hours. She says the threats are very real. Her video is available at

  156. @Mark G.

    There is just too much money to be made here by drug companies selling expensive drugs

    … especially when the contract has automatically-escalating prices per dose.

    As mentioned upthread, there has been a price escalation of the order of 25% for the next set of doses in the EU for both Pfizer (up from €15.50 to €19.50) and Moderna (up from ~$19 to $25.50 a dose).

    It’s anybody’s guess how much per dose they’ll be getting by the time the Pfizer Stage III trial is actually finished in May 2023.

    That’s the date after which I will consider the injection to have passed bare-minimum pro-corporate safety evaluation.

    I still won’t need to consider getting it because I’m not an 80 year old with metabolic syndrome, COPD or kidney failure, so if I am ever infected with SARS-nCoV2 I’ll deal with the mild unpleasantness that will eventuate. (Assuming I haven’t already: people of my characteristics – healthy men in their mid-50s – get it and never know).

    FWIW I know about 50 people who’ve had at least one injection; one of them was found dead the morning after the injection, but that’s no big deal because ① it wasn’t me; and ② otherwise-healthy 54 year olds die all the time… so best not to read anything into it.

    A few of the others were laid low for several days after their injection, but some people get inexplicable lethargy and mild respiratory illness every winter.

    I am too numerate to pretend that my sample is representative, and anyway I don’t care what happens to people who volunteer to test experimental chemicals for Pfizer et al..

    (Plus, I still harbour a slim hope that all this is part of a eugenicist attempt to cull humanity by ~95% – a consummation devoutly to be wished).

    • Agree: acementhead
  157. Alfred says:
    @Skeptikal

    It doesn’t matter how often this is stated, it cuts no ice in Ron’s (and also The Saker’s),

    The “Judas Goat” technique is working quite well. But I confess to being a bit surprised that The Saker is playing a part in this charade.

  158. Let me try to steelman the Anti mRNA-Vax (for Covid) argument, to which I am somewhat partial:

    1: mRNA vaccines are fundamentally untested, with possibly unpredictable long time effects. Forcing such a vaccines down everyone throat in response to Covid is highly debatable.

    2:Due to how Corona viruses work and mutate, and due to the global spread of Covid, an mRNA vaccine presenting only the spike protein is exceedingly unlikely to offer long term immunity as new covid variants emerge.

    3: This will likely result in the neccessity of 3rd, 4rth, etc. shots, essentially becoming a money making machine. At some point it becomes mathematics, how many mRNA shots do you need to have the same cumulated adverse consequence as you would get from contracting covid once?
    There is also human nature. Contracting 3-4 times worse flu is something that is inherantly understandable to the average lay person. Possible long term after effects from vaccination much less so.

    4: Immunologically, at some point the immune system will increasing react to the carrier hull of the mRNA vaccine.

    5: As such, with the mRNA vaccine, we get both the as of yet unknown long time unpleaseant effects of the vaccine, and we also get no long term immunity to Covid.

    6: Vaccines being mostly safe is also a relatively recent historic phenomenon.

    7: Emotionally, and also intellectually, accepting the vaccines means “trusting” our current elites. At this point, I would pick a Chinese or Russian vaccine over a western European/American one.

    8: The emergency authorisation for the mRNA vaccine rests on there being no available other cure for covid. Due to this, mRNA vaccines enablement will provide potent incentives to minimize or block research into possible cures.

    • Agree: John Wear
  159. @Oldtradesman

    Plausible. That would explain why Mr. Unz has created this corral within a corral, where the ADL spiders punt annoying dissenters to Big Dope.

  160. Covid-19: politicisation, “corruption,” and suppression of science. That’s not a statement of mine, it comes from an editorial published in the renowned British Medical Journal; https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4425
    It’s no wonder people are skeptical regarding the official Covid narrative; science is being suppressed by a worldwide coordinated plot to further the Globalists political agenda. That plot includes suppression genuine science from for example, social media platforms such as Facebook, Youtube, Twitter etc.

    • Thanks: Bugey libre
  161. Roger says: • Website
    @Raches

    Well, this is interesting. I cannot remember ever getting a comment from a polite, highly cultured racist and I will admit I have never thought about this before. I may have to consider making a change to my policy. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

    • LOL: mark green
    • Replies: @Raches
  162. Biff says:

    I’m not a pro or anti vaxxer, but here is some info on related cases in my family(in-laws). My mother/father in-law have a food processing factory in Bangkok. Three weeks ago COVID struck and everybody(except one – the cook) tested positive. Dad(vaccinated) went down the hardest – confined to a wheel chair and has bad lungs is still in the hospital – the medicine accredited to saving his life and bringing him out of a near death spiral is Remdesivir. Mom is still in hospital and her story is similar but not as bad, but the game changer was again Remdesivir(the stuff the U.S. media/establishment considers disinformation/fake news/dangerous medical practice/cancel worthy/has no effect on COVID)

    One brother(vaccinated) was sick enough to spend about a week in the hospital; his wife same. Kids did just fine and stayed home.

    The employees(about ten people – almost all are Burmese, and unvaccinated). None went to the hospital. Four were barely sick at all; some others had medium to severe symptoms, and one(the fat girl) got severe symptoms and was in the worst condition for about a week. Most lost sense of taste and smell, but that has since abated. All will survive.

    And that’s all I have to say about that.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
    , @Tony Hall
    , @Sarah
  163. Roger says: • Website
    @Greta Handel

    I saw nothing in this thread which would cause me to reject your comments, therefore, I would have posted them.

    • Thanks: Greta Handel
  164. Roger says: • Website
    @meamjojo

    You might be right, but never is a long time. However, that is beside the point. Whether Ron Unz is trying to become acceptable to the mainstream or not is a non-issue.

  165. @Carlton Meyer

    Real vaccines, like the attenuated types such as Sinovac, where the entire virus becomes a target for antibodies, not just the cytotoxic spike proteins, are vastly preferable, but, in the Free World, you get no such choice. Just the experimental gene therapy injections, entirely novel and untested in mRNA’s case. What could possibly go wrong?

    • Replies: @Ben the Layabout
  166. @Raches

    Saying that

    there doesn’t seem much reason for the government to forcibly require vaccinations

    doesn’t

    state plainly whether he supports mandatory injections of the Pfizer, etc., products for others

    especially in light of Mr. Unz’s subsequent refusals to do so.

    • Replies: @Raches
  167. @JimDandy

    This looks ever more like a mass extermination program, or a mass program to spread infertility. A Children of Men type scenario.

  168. @Oldtradesman

    I saw a ‘female’ medical Mafia type from the USA stating that, ‘carrots’ having failed to get total vaccination, that ‘sticks’ would be required. She was positively slavering at the prospect.

  169. kali says:

    Just dropping this here for the moment as I´m working on several other things right now. I´ll get back to this thread later as I have a few things I´d like to add to the conversation.

    For the moment though, consider the following links which support the observation that we are under biological warfare attack on two primary fronds: the flu-like covid19 and the deadly Clot Shots.

    Best wishes,
    Kali.

    All of the following links are taken from the extensive notes supporting this article: https://allnewspipeline.com/The_Vaccine_Holocaust_Is_Well_Underway.php

    [MORE]

    “Notes

    1 The Covid Vaccine Is an Integral Part of “The Great Reset”. Anthony Hall.
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/no-basis-benign-explanation-rush-stampede-human-herd-covid-jabs/5742129
    2 The Prevailing Corona Nonsense Narrative, Debunked in 10 or 26 Minutes. Thomas Binder. https://doctors4covidethics.org/the-prevailing-corona-nonsense-narrative-debunked-in-10-or-26-minutes/
    3 The Covid BioWeapon: Made in the USA, Aimed at China. Mike Whitney and Ron Unz https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/the-covid-bioweapon-made-in-the-usa-aimed-at-china/ (my bold)
    4 CDC Adds Over 2000 Deaths Associated with COVID-19 Shots in One Week – 917 Unborn Baby Deaths. https://healthimpactnews.com/2021/cdc-adds-over-2000-deaths-associated-with-covid-19-shots-in-one-week-917-unborn-baby-deaths/
    5 Revolver Series, Part One: Exposing the Media’s Plot to Hide Record Vaccine Deaths and Deceive Americans. Michael Thau, PhD https://www.revolver.news/2021/06/revolver-part-one-covid-vaers-deaths-cover-up
    6 Tens of Thousands of COVID-19 “Vaccine” Injured in the U.S. Begging for Help as the Medical Community Turns Their Back on Them. Brian Shilhavy
    https://healthimpactnews.com/2021/tens-of-thousands-of-covid-19-vaccine-injured-in-the-u-s-begging-for-help-as-the-medical-community-turns-their-back-on-them
    7 Revolver Series, Part One: Exposing the Media’s Plot to Hide Record Vaccine Deaths and Deceive Americans. Michael Thau, PhD https://www.revolver.news/2021/06/revolver-part-one-covid-vaers-deaths-cover-up/
    8 Highly Cited COVID Doctor Comes to Stunning Conclusion: Government ‘Scrubbing Unprecedented Numbers’ of Injection-related Deaths. https://leohohmann.com/2021/04/30/highly-cited-covid-doctor-comes-to-stunning-conclusion-govt-scrubbing-unprecedented-numbers-of-injection-related-deaths/
    9 BOMBSHELL (as usual) VEARS deletes 80 records this week, 8 deaths!




    10 Government Scrubs Stats on Vaccine-Related Deaths. Joseph Mercola
    https://stateofthenation.co/?p=65697
    11 1,007,253 Injuries 1,403 DEAD in the UK Following COVID-19 Injections According to UK Government https://fitip.us/s4/blog/1007253-injuries-1403-dead-in-the-uk-following-covid-19-injections-according-to-uk-government/
    12 17,503 DEAD, 1.7 Million Injured (50% SERIOUS) Reported in European Union’s Database of Adverse Drug Reactions for COVID-19 Shots
    https://healthimpactnews.com/2021/17503-dead-1-7-million-injured-50-serious-reported-in-european-unions-database-of-adverse-drug-reactions-for-covid-19-shots/
    13 The Killer in the Bloodstream: the “Spike Protein”. Mike Whitney https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/the-killer-in-the-bloodstream-the-spike-protein/
    14 We Made a Big Mistake’ — COVID Vaccine Spike Protein Travels From Injection Site, Can Cause Organ Damage. Megan Redshaw https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/covid-vaccine-spike-protein-travels-from-injection-site-organ-damage/
    15 Vaccine Researcher Admits ‘Big Mistake,’ Says Spike Protein Is Dangerous ‘Toxin’. Celeste McGovern https://www.globalresearch.ca/vaccine-researcher-admits-big-mistake-says-spike-protein-dangerous-toxin/5746715
    16 Pfizer Skipped Critical Testing and Cut Corners on Quality Standards, Documents Reveal. Megan Redshaw https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/pfizer-skipped-critical-testing-quality-standards-covid-vaccine/?itm_term=home
    17 Canadian Doctor: 62% of Patients Vaccinated for COVID Have Permanent Heart Damage. Brian Shilhavy https://healthimpactnews.com/2021/canadian-doctor-62-of-patients-vaccinated-for-covid-have-permanent-heart-damage/
    18 Whilst You’ve Been Distracted by Hancock’s Affair, PHE Released a Report Revealing 62% of Alleged Covid Deaths Are People Who’ve Been Vaccinated
    https://humansarefree.com/2021/06/distracted-by-hancock-affair-phe-report-covid-deaths-vaccinated.html
    19 Global Bioterrorism. Reiner Fuellmich With Dr. Peter McCullough. Corona Committee (video). https://www.brighteon.com/657cceb5-f9a1-435b-9a96-cbb4b28489aa
    20 World-Renowned Physician Blows The Lid Off COVID Vaccines (video).
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/05/no_author/world-renowned-academic-physician-blows-lid-off-covid-vaccines/
    21 The current coronavirus crisis is “the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on an unsuspecting public” (video). https://brandnewtube.com/watch/the-current-coronavirus-crisis-is-the-greatest-hoax-ever-perpetrated-on-a-unsuspecting-public_G7yoOPWi3HlHRdK.html
    22 Dr Roger Hodkinson – “When the history of this madness is written, reputations will be slaughtered and there will be blood in the gutter”. https://dailyexpose.co.uk/2021/05/23/an-exclusive-interview-with-dr-roger-hodkinson-when-the-history-of-this-madness-is-written-reputations-will-be-slaughtered-and-there-will-be-blood-in-the-gutter/
    23 Bombshell: Nobel Prize Winner Reveals – COVID Vaccine Is ‘Creating Variants’. Renee Nal. https://www.globalresearch.ca/bombshell-nobel-prize-winner-reveals-covid-vaccine-creating-variants/5746003
    24 The crime that is COVID https://tapnewswire.com/the-crime-that-is-covid-by-weaver/
    25 mRNA Vaccine Inventor Erased from History Books. Joseph Mercola
    https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2021/07/06/mrna-vaccine-inventor-erased-from-history-books.aspx?ui=518a8cd418d24a6f9522c6a20d940561314501f2d4e8dee1ce0ef88594129673&sd=20190212&cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1HL&cid=20210706_HL2&mid=DM921254&rid=1201101627
    26 COVID Shots to “Decimate World Population,” Warns Dr. Bhakdi. Alex Newman https://thenewamerican.com/covid-shots-to-decimate-world-population-warns-dr-bhakdi/
    27 Dr. Michael Yeadon (the former Vice President of Pfizer) is on fire (video)



    28 Urgent Need to Support Petition to Halt FDA Approval of COVID Vaccines. Joel S. Hirschhorn https://stateofthenation.co/?p=71885
    29 Urgent petition by clinicians, researchers, consumer advocates warns FDA against ‘premature’ COVID vaccine approval https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/frontlinenews/urgent-petition-by-clinicians-researchers-consumer-advocates-warns-fda-against-premature-covid-vaccine-approval/
    30 POST A COMMENT: CHD Calls on FDA to Immediately Take COVID Vaccines Off the Market. https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/sign-petition-chd-fda-take-covid-vaccines-off-market/
    31 Doctors and Scientists Write to EuropeanMedicines Agency (EMA) Warning of COVID-19Vaccine Dangers. https://www.globalresearch.ca/doctors-scientists-write-european-medicines-agency-warning-covid-19-vaccine-dangers/5739515?pdf=5739515
    32 COVID-19 and the PCR Test — No Pandemic, Only Junk Data! Gavin Phillips https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid-19-pcr-test-no-pandemic-only-junk-data/5746038
    33 The WHO Confirms that the COVID-19 PCR Test is Flawed: Estimates of “Positive Cases” are Meaningless. The Lockdown Has No Scientific Basis. Prof. Michel Chossudovsky https://www.globalresearch.ca/nucleic-acid-testing-technologies-use-polymerase-chain-reaction-pcr-detection-sars-cov-2/5739959
    34 The Delta deception: New COVID variant might be less deadly. Daniel Horowitz https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horowitz-the-delta-deception-new-covid-variant-might-be-less-deadly
    35 The Delta Variant of COVID-19 is Harmless – A Scam for Governments to Implement More Lockdowns. Brian Shilhavy https://vaccineimpact.com/2021/the-delta-variant-of-covid-19-is-harmless-a-scam-for-governments-to-implement-more-lockdowns/
    36 “The Human Bomb”: Effects of mRNA “Vaccination” on Unvaccinated People? Investigation of alarming phenomenon relating to the vaccine
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/human-bomb-effects-mrna-vaccination-unvaccinated-people/5745424
    37 STAY AWAY (WARNING)–Many Doctors And Nurses Speak Out To Warn Of The Dangers To Those Taking The “Vaccine” And Those Coming In Contact With The Vaccinated. http://www.truthunmasked.org/p/stay-away.html
    38 BOMBSHELL: Pfizer’s own documents admit covid vaccines will shed infectious particles to others. Ethan Huff https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-05-03-pfizer-admits-covid-vaccines-shed-infectious-particles.html
    39 COVID Vax Transmission Phenomenon: A Deeper Look. Makia Freeman
    https://thefreedomarticles.com/covid-vax-transmission-phenomenon-frequency-change/
    40 Covid-19 Vaccines Lead to New Infections and Mortality: The Evidence is Overwhelming. Gérard Delépine https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid-19-vaccines-lead-to-new-infections-and-mortality-the-evidence/5746393
    41 COVID Vaxxed Magnets: Why are Magnets Sticking to the Vaccinated? Makia Freeman https://thefreedomarticles.com/covid-vaxxed-magnets-sticking-to-vaccinated-at-injection-site/
    42 COVID-19 Injections, Graphene Oxide & Electromagnetic Fields. https://stateofthenation.co/?s=magnetic
    43 La Quinta Columna: They Are Injecting Graphene Oxide As An Adjuvant in Vaccines – video. https://brandnewtube.com/watch/la-quinta-columna-they-are-injecting-graphene-oxide-as-a-adjuvant-in-vaccines_Oroq7DWmVGt2HZi.html
    44 Graphene Oxide~The Mechanism For Connection To 5G Grid: Magnetofection. https://odysee.com/@TimelessTruths:3/Graphene-Oxide-The-Mechanism-For-Connection-To-5G-Grid:9
    45 Analysis of Vaccination Vial Confirms Presence of Graphene Nanoparticles
    https://tapnewswire.com/2021/06/analysis-of-vaccination-vial-confirms-presence-of-graphene-nanoparticles-video/
    46 Own Nothing and Be Happy: Being Human in 2030. Colin Todhunter https://countercurrents.org/2020/11/own-nothing-and-be-happy-being-human-in-2030/
    47 Magnetic Hydrogel: The Reason for the COVID Vax Magnet Phenomenon? Makia Freeman https://thefreedomarticles.com/does-magnetic-hydrogel-explain-covid-vax-magnet-phenomenon/
    48 WHAT IF all the blood clots are happening because… Jim Stone.
    http://82.221.129.208/.un4.html
    49 Schwab Family Values. Johnny Vedmore https://unlimitedhangout.com/2021/02/investigative-reports/schwab-family-values/
    50 PULITZER-WORTHY! Klaus Schwab’s NAZI roots FINALLY TRACED!. Silviu “Silview” Costinescu
    https://silview.media/2021/02/28/pulitzer-worthy-someone-finally-traced-klaus-schwabs-nazi-roots/
    51 Klaus Schwab and His Great Fascist Reset
    https://winteroak.org.uk/2020/10/05/klaus-schwab-and-his-great-fascist-reset/
    52 Ibid.
    53 BREAKING! Klaus Schwab Calls For Global Health Pass Based on Implantable Microchip https://humansarefree.com/2021/05/klaus-schwab-calls-on-implantable-microchip.html
    54 No Wonder WHO Covered for China; Director Was Prominent Member of Communist Party. Jared Harris https://www.westernjournal.com/no-wonder-covered-china-director-prominent-member-communist-party/
    55 5 Shocking Facts About WHO Chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus. Edwin Mora https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/04/10/5-shocking-facts-about-who-chief-tedros-adhanom-ghebreyesus/
    56 Before COVID, Gates Planned Social Media Censorship of Vaccine Safety Advocates With Pharma, CDC, Media, China and CIA. Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/gates-planned-social-media-censorship-vaccine-safety/
    57 The 2020-21 Worldwide Corona Crisis: Destroying Civil Society, Engineered Economic Depression, Global Coup d’État and the “Great Reset”. Prof. Michel Chossudovsky
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-2020-worldwide-corona-crisis-destroying-civil-society-engineered-economic-depression-global-coup-detat-and-the-great-reset/5730652

    • Thanks: Theophrastus
  170. What has been learned is that the spike protein is how the so-called virus enters cells. Viruses are harmless unless they get inside the machinery of a living cell where they can replicate. The spike protein targets the ACE receptor.

    So why in hell are we making vaccines that use RNA or DNA to produce more spike protein, thus opening the doorway for all subsequent viruses to enter living cells?

    By definition the vaccines are biological weapons. What don’t you understand about this Mr. Unz?

    • Replies: @Truth Vigilante
  171. onebornfree says: • Website

    “to Vaxx or Not to Vaxx?”

    To ” vaxx” or not “vaxx” _who_ exactly, Mr Unz?

    You, or me?

    Here’s your answer:

    Your body, your choice, Mr Unz. Similarly, _my_ body _my_ choice, right, Mr Unz?

    If you do not agree with the above, then clearly you are living in the wrong country. End of story.

    “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”
    US Bill of Rights, 9th Amendment

    “Regards” onebornfree

    • Thanks: Greta Handel
  172. IdCov says:

    The debate should be about what vaccines to favor from the point of view of long-term safety. By this metric, SinoVac and SinoPharm use an attenuated virus, a technology that has been mastered many decades ago, so they are a priori less risky than the mRNA vaccines and AstraZeneca. Your favorite travel writer Linh Dinh could probably have selected SinoPharm when he was in Serbia. Why don’t we in the EU, the UK, and the US, have the right to pick our favorite brand?

    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
  173. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Skeptikal

    “We really have to get a straight answer to question no. 1 first, or this whole thing is circle jerk. Yes or no?”

    Yes, a circle jerk is exactly what it is. Thanks for that. I asked the exact same question in my previous post here (assuming it gets published). I even quoted the 9th amendment to the US constitution for good measure.

    I expect “crickets” in response, of course.😎

    Regards, onebornfree

  174. It’s good that Ron Unz has resisted the urge to censor views which he disagrees with. Wish more sites were like this.

    One on the major groups that are resistant to the Covid-19 vaccines are PhDs: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v1 (really seemed to surprise the authors. But no surprise!)

    I cannot speak for all of us of course, but Science does not favor vaccination (actually natural immunity is preferable, and will likely happen to many young and healthy with the super-contagious delta variant). The idea for vaccinating everyone was that vaccination would provide herd immunity; that hypothesis is no longer valid with several recent studies showing that vaccinated, while resistant themselves, had high levels of virus, initially, similar to the the unvaccinated. Many of the vaccinated are now asymptomatic super-spreaders. So no herd immunity, quite the contrary. The vaccinated are more dangerous than the unvaccinated (who stay away when sick) around their grandmothers and those who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons.

    The Vulnerable (those over age 60 globally, and over 50 in the US if you believe the CDC) benefit greatly from the Covid-19 vaccines. Some elderly surely die from the vaccines (it is a lie they don’t), but the numbers favor the vaccines. One in six unvaccinated 80 year olds dies in infected with Covid, this group which accounts for the majority of deaths globally, is also the group with most long haulers with Covid. There are also 5% of deaths that are under “50” due to underlying medical conditions, particularly multiple conditions. This includes almost ALL of the 354 “children” (out of 75 million 0-17 year olds) who the CDC claims have died from Covid. Dr. Marty Makary, who has particularly researched effects of Covid on children, notes that he has has not found a SINGLE CASE where a healthy child died from Covid. Honestly, it seems incredibly stupid to vaccinate a healthy child, but the death rates are very low with Covid or with vaccines in this group.

    • Replies: @lysias
  175. @Raches

    Since I am actually not a monomaniac

    Does it sort of sound like that, though?

  176. IdCov says:

    Also, insofar as I understand vaccination, it is about letting some bad stuff run amok through your body so that your immune system’s preparation level gets pumped up. Now there are two options:

    1) Either you manufacture the bad stuff in a lab [outside your body];
    2) Or you manufacture the bad stuff inside your own body [mRNA and AstraZeneca].

    I think that the bad stuff should not be manufactured inside your own body when if can conveniently be manufactured in a lab. Manufacturing bad stuff is a very dicey process, and if there are some incidents, you want them to happen in a lab where they can be detected through quality control procedures, and the batch thrown away.

    Nature manufactures bad stuff all the time. So do labs. But my body should not, at least not willingly.

    • Agree: Polemos
  177. The issue is not one of vaxx vs. anti-vaxx. It is an issue of facts vs. Big Pharma propaganda: https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2021/08/16/all-of-the-evidence-is-in-the-covid-vaccine-is-a-failure/

    Ron doesn’t not seem to be aware of the evidence or even the recent statements by the CDC itself.

  178. metamars says: • Website

    Ryan Cole, MD, a member of Americas Front Line Doctors, makes the (actually, obvious point) that “one cannot find that for which they do not look”.

    Cole has examined tissues from people apparently killed by their covid vaccines, and is finding evidence of inflammation (probably from the spike proteins) in tissues from various regions of the body.

    By this time, there are lots of dead bodies to have chosen from. According to a whistleblower, the VAERS database is undercounting by at least a factor of 5. But even taking the VAERS database as gospel, there literally should have been thousands of vaccine-killed bodies, in the US, to autopsy.

    However, Cole says the CDC has performed no autopsies.

    See “A PATHOLOGIST SUMMARY OF WHAT THESE JABS DO TO THE BRAIN AND OTHER ORGANS”

    @ https://rumble.com/vkopys-a-pathologist-summary-of-what-these-jabs-do-to-the-brain-and-other-organs.html

  179. Alfred says:
    @Insouciant

    Are Jews even more readily brought to paranoia by Jewish-produced propaganda than are some non-Jews?

    I went to an English boarding school (Stowe) as a teenager – 55 years ago. There were quite a few Jewish boys in the school. It was an expensive school. My contemporaries and I noted that the Jewish boys were far more likely to go to the sanatorium to see the doctor and to find a medical pretext for getting out of compulsory sport. I would guess that they did that perhaps 10 times more often than other English boys. I only once went to see the doctor in the 4 years I spent there.

  180. @Raches

    It is now obvious that these are not vaccines. If you get a vaccine for smallpox, you are protected for life. These are antibody boosters that fade away over a few months, so you need more jabs for protection.

    So, what do you call a tetanus vaccine? For only one of many obvious examples. Is this really the first time that you have ever heard of a booster shot?

    This nonsensical anti-vaxxer political correctness in redefining the word “vaccine” is annoying, although it is a good indicator of credibility.

    Indeed. A vaccine is anything that presents one or more antigens to the adaptive immune systems, plural, it’s not just antibodies, which then produce fairly long term responses. For smallpox, that was and still is for newer vaccines only guaranteed for three years, and I remember getting a booster shot before my one visit to Haiti. The tetanus, diphtheria and acellular pertussis (TDaP) vaccines are is composed of toxoids, non-pathogenic analogs of bacterial toxins ( and adjuvants), is considered for adults to only provide protection for ten years, and if you get a penetrating wound five years.

    The original author does not know that there’s a cellular in addition to the humoral (blood based) antibody mediated adaptive immune system, or that the original fleet of antibodies produced by an infection or vaccination fades away in a matter of months, while memory B cells stand waiting to make another fleet as needed. The latter should be obvious from first principles, if you kept all your antibody fleets as you grew up, you’d run out of room for red blood cells in your plasma before you exited childhood.

    You are of course correct about these people who want to redefine basic concepts in biology and medicine, who for example insist that scientists have not “isolated” SARS-CoV-2 to their strict definitions. Meanwhile scientists and doctors go about their business in the same way they’ve done for a very long time.

  181. @Biff

    Could you tell us what vaccine your dad (and the other vaccinated people, if any, in this story) had? This happened in Thailand, right?

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @Dumbo
  182. lysias says:
    @michael888

    I am 74 years old with a number of comorbidities, so I might well benefit from a vaccine, as you suggest. Nevertheless, I am not going to be vaccinated for covid, because, I think, I owe it to other people to resist the tyrannical atmosphere that has grown up over covid.

    And, by the way, I have a Ph.D.

    • Replies: @michael888
  183. onebornfree says: • Website

    Why Ron, why? :

    “Why are numerous ‘independent alternative’ media outlets and writers not questioning the COVID-19 vaccine rollout? If anything, they are promoting it without even considering the serious concerns being voiced by top scientists.”

    From:”Science, Salvation and Heretics: From Monsanto to Pfizer, Same Old Playbook”
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/science-salvation-heretics-monsanto-pfizer-same-old-playbook/5753047

    ‘Nuff said.

    “Regards” onebornfree

    • Replies: @Tony Hall
  184. cmh says:
    @GreatSocialist

    Where can we get the old fashioned Vaccines, do you know? I hadn’t heard about that, yet, and will research it. I’d be up for that vaccine much more than any mRNA vax. I also feel that people have good reason Not to take it, especially the young.

    Read Geert Vanden Bossche’s paper (and listen to his interview with Martensen) which I have posted the link to in my other Comment on this thread.

    I think his statement on why mass vaccinations DURING a pandemic should not be the way to go is very compelling.

    The guy is no dummy either, and has worked with WHO, GAVI, and even Gates foundation in the past. He is begging the WHO to reconsider and says the mandates should be removed.

    So, Dr. Fauci and his minions either are ignorant of the consequences of a mass vaccination campaign DURING a pandemic (it would be different if it was before a pandemic for specific reasons Geert talks about) OR they do know about it, in which case they want to give the virus more opportunity to mutate.

    From the article:

    Mass vaccination in the middle of a pandemic is prone to promoting selection and adaptation of immune escape variants that are featured by increasing infectiousness and resistance to spike protein (S)-directed antibodies (Abs), thereby diminishing protection in vaccinees and threatening the unvaccinated.

    https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/post/c-19-pandemia-quo-vadis-homo-sapiens

    Or watch his interview with Martensen on his site, which explains this thoroughly.

    Thanks for the info on the future availability of the old fashioned vaccines.

  185. @Raches

    Wow, you provided a great example of a propagandist smear against someone exposing the truth. You refute nothing and provide no counter information, just teenage level personal attacks against the messenger.

    Serious people won’t pay attention to your comment; your thought process is locking you in an echo chamber, where you bounce the same ideas back and forth with people who already agree with you.

    Please consider this to be a tip on how to improve your style of public communications by improving the substance of your thought process: Step back, take a deep breath, apply logic, and the rest comes naturally. You want to persuade people, right? Start by thinking straight.

    These types of shrill attacks from Big Pharma/Big Government trolls are why people are mistrustful of official COVID information.

    • Replies: @schnellandine
    , @Raches
  186. Your proposal to start a discussion on vaccines is a good one.

    The idea that extreme views, and political agendas are not welcome is also good news.

    I will follow it with interest. Thanks for your good work on this site.

  187. jsinton says:
    @Paul Craig Roberts

    Ron doesn’t not seem to be aware of the evidence or even the recent statements by the CDC itself.

    Indeed, Mr. Ron seems rather “Twilight Zoneish” over the matter. From they guy who gave Pizzagate some credibility, I find it a little hard to swallow that Mr. Ron will insult and disparage people over the “vaccine” in deference to the overwhelming evidence. My sense is Ron is actually some sort of controlled opposition, or he’s been “gotten to” somehow.

  188. lysias says:
    @Alfred

    Jacques Attali is still alive at the age of 77. Isn’t there a contradiction there?

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Replies: @Bugey libre
  189. lysias says:
    @Oldtradesman

    Aren’t the Ph.D.s who refuse to be vaccinated upper middle class?

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Oldtradesman
  190. CSFurious says:

    There is ample evidence that attempting to mass vaccinate in the middle of a pandemic is not only prolonging it but also making the virus mutate. I also believe that the influenza virus has been pushed out by SARS-COV-2, i.e., everyone is getting infected with Covid-19 and no one is getting the flu. Covid-19 is now permanent.

  191. bjondo [AKA "5 dancing shlomos"] says:
    @bjondo

    seems need to log into facebook to view video.
    found on internet. watched.

  192. @Tom Verso

    You can’t do that. I would totally expose the pandemic as a complete fraud.

  193. @Paul Craig Roberts

    “It is an issue of facts vs. Big Pharma propaganda”

    No, as you should well know, it’s an issue of personal freedom, at least in the US (or it should be).

    For no matter how effective or ineffective the “vaccines” are ( or are claimed to be), even if they were generally considered to be 100% effective, here, in the US at least, the individual has the right to refuse to be jabbed, for any reason they might choose!

    End of story, Mr Roberts!

    Amendment IX
    “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”

    “Regards”, onebornfree

  194. Biff says:
    @Brás Cubas

    Could you tell us what vaccine your dad (and the other vaccinated people, if any, in this story) had? This happened in Thailand, right?

    They got the Astra-Zeneca vaccine, and yes, Bangkok(Krung-thep) is in Thailand.

    • Thanks: Brás Cubas
  195. Dumbo says:
    @Alfred

    Euthanasia targeting these groups; euthanasia will have to be an essential instrument of our future societies, in all cases

    Cohencidentally, as Covid hysteria, green passes, jabs, “social distancing”, isolation from family and lockdowns make life awful for older people, euthanasia advances in Europe, even in formerly Catholic Italy:

    https://www.italy24news.com/News/159682.html

    they will go to the slaughterhouse on their own.

    Indeed.

  196. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Raches

    You quote Mr Unz as saying:

    “one major problem that’s now been discovered is that they don’t seem very effective in preventing vaccinated people from infecting others, so there doesn’t seem much reason for the government to forcibly require vaccinations”,

    …which implies that he believes that if there _were_ a “good reason” , in his, or the governments opinion, then forced “vaccinations” would be perfectly OK, right?

    It would therefore appear that both yourself and Mr Unz are in favour of mandatory “vaccination” for US citizens , provided there is ” much reason” to do so, or am I missing something? 😎

    “Regards, onebornfree

    • Agree: Skeptikal
    • Replies: @Raches
  197. Dumbo says:

    The problem are not the “anti-vaxxers”. Right or wrong in their views, they have zero power and very little influence. The problem, thus, are the “pro-vaxxers”.

    Why won’t the “pro-vaxxers” just leave the “anti-vaxxers” alone?

  198. Anon[103] • Disclaimer says:
    @lysias

    I don’t know anymore. Leonardo da Vinci was basically an entertainer for the upper classes.. the concentration of wealth in the last few decades is putting the upper class lifestyle out of the reach of many. How many PhDs have live-in help, for example??

  199. Dumbo says:
    @Brás Cubas

    Aren’t you from Brazil? A famous Brazilian actor recently supposedly died from Covid even after having two vaccine doses (not sure which one, I think Coronavac). I say supposedly because he was 86 and likely had other health issues.

    A few other celebrities or sub-celebrities have died even after taking the two doses of the vaccines in several countries. And those are just the deaths that appear in the newspapers. This a case from someone much younger in the US, with the J&J:

    https://eu.clarionledger.com/story/news/2021/08/06/sheriff-lee-vance-covid-breakthrough-delta-variant-case-contributed-death/5500101001/

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/hinds-county-sheriff-lee-vances-death-is-coronavirus-related-coroner-says/ar-AAMYUhC?ocid=uxbndlbing

    So, in the best case, the vaccines are little more than useless. In the worst case, they may make symptoms worse in some people, or cause other issues.

    Bear in mind that the manufacturers themselves say that the vaccines are less efficient for older people with co-morbidities — unfortunately, older people with co-morbidities are the ones more likely to die from Covid. With or without vaccine.

    It sounds like a plan to get rid of old people — if Covid doesn’t take care of them, then the vaccine does. If they survive both, then the social isolation from their families and the lockdowns take their toll.

    And if they survive all that, well – then, euthanasia laws on them!

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  200. Nancy says:
    @JVC

    It would appear that a ‘control group’ cannot be permitted (and this is ‘science’!) Perhaps that is behind the deaths of the leaders of Tanzania, Burundi, Hait and attempted coup in Madagascar, who had blocked the ‘vax’ in their countries. Their replacements immediately opened the doors. If these countries remained ‘virus’ free, it might have been a tad embarrassing… (gads, I’ve been reading Jewish authors’ on the history of the ‘heretical’ Frankist elements in recent Termite history … )

  201. Nancy says:

    …. we ‘unvaxed’ must also be eliminated, as we might be the only ‘control group’.

    • Replies: @MarkU
  202. Tony Hall says:
    @Biff

    The dad? Vaccine injuries and deaths being misrepresented as products of COVID infection? How widespread? Here’s a suggestion of yet more statistical fraud which seems to be a hallmark of the murderous gang behind this lucrative experiment.

  203. Tmcgraw says:

    My limited contribution to this argument is to only make the point that the full affects of this gene altering product are only now seeing the light of day. We now know that whatever immunity is provided by the jab disappears in a lot of cases over just a few months. We now also know that a high percentage of new positive test results are from people who are in fact vaxxed. We’ve known for a year now that the fatality rate for the bulk of the population is well under .01%. And finally, we know that I can immunize myself, or cure myself, with a product I can buy on the Internet or in a animal feed store. (and do)

    All the above is documented well above my standard of legitimacy. My feeling, as a long time observer of the machinations of governments everywhere, and with the codependency and blatant narcissism of all those who rule us, is that all the above has been common knowledge among the elite for a very long time. Power is truly a dangerous thing when put it the hands of scoundrels.

    I’m 70. If I have to dodge “the Man” for a decade for not having a vaccine passport so be it. It sucks, but I’ve put on my last mask.

  204. bjondo [AKA "5 dancing shlomos"] says:

    The various vaxxes are not about health and welfare: Political/economic/societal remake, police state, wealth/property transfer, population reduction.

    Many credible but censored reports regarding easily available and proven medicines.
    Many credible but censored professionals with opinions different from the official.
    Why censored? Why the fear?

    Lies, fraud, corruption have to be protected.

    vaxx = death
    not vaxx = not death

  205. Tony Hall says:
    @onebornfree

    Why Ron, why? :

    “Why are numerous ‘independent alternative’ media outlets and writers not questioning the COVID-19 vaccine rollout? If anything, they are promoting it without even considering the serious concerns being voiced by top scientists.”

    At this place in the “independent alternative media” we have seen an approach where the webmaster has been actively “questioning the COVID-19 vaccine rollout.” The preoccupation of the site’s host, however, is not to to interrogate the lobby pushing the untested experimental jabs but rather to call into question the sanity and competence of jab skeptics. This reversal cannot help but raise questions about the real purpose of UR and who is really behind it.

    • Agree: John Wear, geokat62
  206. @lysias

    Hello,

    That despicable character has been promoting the killing of elders for years on the mainstream media for years, yet as you say, he is 77 and still a major advisor (Rothshild’s creature) for government like he has been during all my life.

    He has had another say after the H1N1 scam:

    https://solidariteetprogres.fr/actualites-001/attali-une-petite-pandemie.html

    « L’Histoire nous apprend que l’humanité n’évolue significativement que lorsqu’elle a vraiment peur : elle met alors d’abord en place des mécanismes de défense ; parfois intolérables (des boucs émissaires et des totalitarismes) ; parfois futiles (de la distraction) ; parfois efficaces (des thérapeutiques, écartant si nécessaire tous les principes moraux antérieurs). Puis, une fois la crise passée, elle transforme ces mécanismes pour les rendre compatibles avec la liberté individuelle et les inscrire dans une politique de santé démocratique. »

    Pour Attali, « La pandémie qui commence pourrait déclencher une de ces peurs structurantes », car elle fera surgir, « mieux qu’aucun discours humanitaire ou écologique, la prise de conscience de la nécessité d’un altruisme, au moins intéressé. »

    « Et, même si, comme il faut évidemment l’espérer, cette crise n’est pas très grave, il ne faudra pas oublier, comme pour la crise économique, d’en tirer les leçons, afin qu’avant la prochaine – inévitable – on mette en place des mécanismes de prévention et de contrôle, ainsi que des processus logistiques de distribution équitable des médicaments et de vaccins. On devra, pour cela, mettre en place une police mondiale, un stockage mondial et donc une fiscalité mondiale. On en viendra alors, beaucoup plus vite que ne l’aurait permis la seule raison économique, à mettre en place les bases d’un véritable gouvernement mondial. »

  207. Tim Pool notes that many big cities now have three times more deaths from violent crime than COVID, but no one talks about it being a problem or how to deal with it.

  208. @lysias

    Aren’t the Ph.D.s who refuse to be vaccinated upper middle class?

    Ph.D.s are a small subset of the upper middle-class.

    • Replies: @Bugey libre
  209. @Johnny F. Ive

    I read coronavirus mutates slower than the flu….

    Slower than any other RNA virus family, have a unique among them proofreading mechanism. But the flu is a special case, the body’s immunity against it doesn’t include anything “conserved,” stuff than can’t change or “the virus won’t virus.” Studies of people who survived the 1918 flu pandemic indicated they still had immunity to it, but of course they won’t against the next “strain.” A word which denotes a total immune escape, vs. the partial which can be a feature of “variants.” But note we have many “eternal” vaccines against RNA viruses which mutate much faster than coronaviruses but not as much as the flu, like for the measles and polio.

    The mRNA and vector vaccine technology is creepy

    Your characterization of what I’ve taken to calling “active” vaccines is not entirely unfair. Starting with the very first one, which gave us the name from Variolae vaccinae, Latin for “smallpox of the cow,” this category hijacks some of your cells and forces them to make viral proteins, which requires a step where mMRA provides the directions for making the proteins (normal pattern for all organisms is DNA->mRNA->proteins). They generally have one inherent advantage in that they mimic a pathogenic virus doing it’s thing, resulting in the best and widest possible immune response (modulo that the response is a bit different in an infection due to the body treating that more seriously).

    and it is odd that the US government is being combative, trying to force people to take these particular vaccines when there are alternatives like [Sanofi]/GSK, Novavax, and [Covaxin].

    Except none of those are current options. Operation Warp Speed bet heavily, more than a billion dollars each if they needed it, on AZ/Oxford, J&J’s Janssen, Moderna, Novavax and Sanofi/GSK (Pfizer notoriously refused to have anything to do with it except for a purchase order, until they started missing their manufacturing goals in December 2020). Sanofi Pasteur of all companies failed in their V1.0 Phase I and II trials, did not get sufficient responses from those 55 and older, but their V2.0 clinical trials started early this year are promising, they should have something by the end of this year.

    Something is wrong with Novavax, it was also funded by the U.K., first Phase III trial based there followed by a FDA strength one in the US, reports of the results are good, the best I know is that they and their U.K. and US manufacturing partner Fujifilm have failed to be able to manufacture it in quantity, that’s part of what’s required for an FDA Emergency Use Authorization (EUA), they check out the factories including in person visits. SII is manufacturing it in India and per an August 6th article I just found hoping to distribute it in October.

    Bharat Biotech did not necessarily do a FDA strength Phase III clinical trial for their inactivated whole virus Covaxin, and in any case they’d need to make an FDA EUA application including having manufacturing set up outside of India. Because the latter country only started to get serious in mid-March by all vaccine exports, previously more than half the nation’s production was exported with little or no help from the government (and that in turn has ruined many nations’ plans that depended on Indian sourcing of vaccines).

    “But here’s what we know today, based on information that we have right now: Among several wonderful options, the more old-school vaccine from Novavax combines ease of manufacture

    For Novavax and Fujifilm, that would seem to be an aspiration, not reality. So let me expand a bit on COVID-19 vaccination development and manufacturing:

    All of mRNA, virus vector using a proven platform and inactivated whole virus like Bharat Biotech and some PRC firms should be quick to develop. Moderna based on decades of research into mRNA technology including vaccines and safe SARS type coronavirus vaccines (that line of research goes back to the late 1960s) took only a weekend to design their candidate, was ready for first batch production for testing January 13th. For whole viruses, you’ve obviously got to learn how to make them in quantity, and if they’re the original, “wild” type (WT) that’s also dangerous. But you’d need only so much to confirm you’ve got an inactivation scheme working and for test batches.

    Adenovirus viral vector vaccines are also fast to design given that SARS type coronavirus vaccine research, you replace the E1 set of genes with the spike protein. Janssen took extra time to try to develop the very best one jab vaccine and for example added extra stabilization to the spike protein beyond the 2P tweak.

    For manufacturing, turns out the novel mRNA vaccines only require one really novel step when they’re mixed with their protective lipids, and that just requires more microfludics machines (rumored to be so advanced only one firm in the world can make them), everything else is simple and easy, starting with the old workhorse bacteria E. Coli to make a bunch of DNA plasmids (small circles) containing the sequence for the spike protein. Everything else is done in vitro.

    All the other vaccine types discussed require cell cultures, and they go bad if you look at them sideways. Bug cells are used for Novavax and Sanofi’s vaccines to make a protein, and Sanofi bought Protein Sciences in 2017, the US firm which pioneered this approach for flu vaccines. AZ has had a horrible time trying to get Oxford’s vaccine manufactured in expected quantities. It uses a novel for mass manufacturing platform, nothing more than Phase I trials with no more than 46 participants prior to 2020. Perhaps one shouldn’t go rooting around in chimpanzee feces….

    Known multi-US and party presidential administration scammer Emergent BioSolutions tried to make it and Janssen’s in one plant in Baltimore, and as everyone expected mostly failed, the FDA shut them down, kicked Oxford production out of the plant to avoid future cross contamination screwups, and only allowed new production at the end of last month, without the plant yet getting authorization to ship the vaccines.

    Sputnik V is also being very troublesome to manufacture in quantity, and has two different vectors for the two dose version. Gamaleya is also now trying for a one dose Sputnik Light using the first and easier to manufacture dose, which happens to use the same Ad26 adenovirus that Janssen is using. As far as I can tell Janssen had the most mature platform, that was previously used for the first dose of their Ebola vaccine which got European approval.

    So the TL;DR is that if you believe in vaccines, and believe that the mRNA vaccines are “safe and effective” as I do, and officially they’re more effective than the single dose Janssen, you fail to get a lot without at least one boost dose, there’s nothing sinister about the powers that be pushing them in the US, modulo risk/benefit calculations that I suspect start to get serious for those under thirty.

    • Troll: schnellandine
    • Replies: @Wild Man
  210. Raches says:
    @Roger

    You’re welcome.

    As a generally applicable observation, consider the ladyfriend in the personal anecdote that I related in the prior thread. I think that she was shocked and disoriented by how I could engage her with music and poetry, then casually remark that yes, dear, rhymes with triggers really do behave intolerably—and no, honey, you can never trust a Jew. It must have been surreal to her, like a nightmare version of Alice in Wonderland.

    I do understand this; indeed, between the two of us, must I not be the one to understand it? If I claim to understand the world better than she does—if I claim to have a superior understanding of human nature, and to perceive reality with open eyes as she does not—then certainly, I must understand this.

    She needed some solid ground beneath her feet, at least occasionally. Well, of course, I despise anti-vaxxers. She had that.

    Mr. Unz is probably not so surprised. He himself has written extensively on such topics as the intellectual history of white racialism, the historical blackout, and extraordinarily well-informed observers who believed in Jewish conspiracies. Nevertheless, when I apply the lessons of my personal experiences to this discussion, mutatis mutandis, I realize how Mr. Unz must perceive the incongruous prospect of anti-vaxxers who aren’t stupid.

    I am not merely referring to myself, on this particular point—to the contrary. Mr. Unz has several regular columnists who are much more strongly in the anti-vaxxer camp than I am (yet?), and he respects them sufficiently to publish their work. In his interview with Mr. Whitney, Mr. Unz plainly stated, “Actually, there are all sorts of different anti-vaxxers, including on the comment threads of this website.” Alas, there are many anti-vaxxers of the sort who cannot read 9,000-word articles with full comprehension.

    In the ensuing discussion, he probably noticed what I called “The Unbalanced U-curve of ‘Hesitancy’”. I suggest that that is a much more important phenomenon than the conceits of ineducable monomaniacs.

  211. @lysias

    Please keep yourself hermetically sealed away from the delta variant, because it is much more contagious (3- to 30-fold) than the original SARS-CoV2. Just because of more transmission, particularly from the unknowing vaccinated, delta will probably be a bad wave! Hopefully you have corrected any nutrient deficiencies, and are taking preventative drugs (ivermectin, quercetin, fluvoxamine, zinc, vitamin D3 etc); a good idea for everyone. Since vaccines are “only” ~90% effective, there are at least 16 million Americans who think they are protected but are not.

    My computer glitched on my first comment, resulting in premature publication. There are reasons, scientific not political, for avoiding vaccination.

    A maxim of virology is not to vaccinate during an epidemic (a month or more BEFORE or AFTER it had run its course is fine). It takes weeks for the vaccine to exert its effects and non-neutralizing or partial protection is worse than no protection “for the herd” as it results in selection against the antibodies made; same when vaccine antibodies are fading, there is selection of variants resistant to the antibodies. Natural immunity, as Israel has recently reported from analysis of millions of breakthrough vaccine and re-infections, is about 7-fold more protective against infection than vaccines.

    Western vaccines are aimed only at making antibodies to the S-1 protein (the human ACE-2 RBD). This is the major antigen for natural immunity responses as well, however the S-2 (with the infamous furin cleavage site), and the nucleocapsid regions, along with shared coronavirus common cold structures, yield antibody and particularly cell natural immunity responses. By bypassing the S1 protein, SARS-Cov2 could produce variants unresponsive to the vaccines.

    The big fear, which many virologists keep saying is unlikely to happen naturally(?), is ADE, antibody dependent enhancement of the SARS-Cov2 virus. While this could just result in resistance to vaccines, another mechanism added to mutation selection, if aimed at the S1 protein specifically, ADE could target vaccinated people.

    A separate issue is that autoimmunity could be a very late adverse response to vaccines. Generally these effects are rare, but can ruin people’s lives.

  212. @Dumbo

    So, in the best case, the vaccines are little more than useless. In the worst case, they may make symptoms worse in some people, or cause other issues.

    I don’t want to get into the safety issue. I have nothing to add to the official studies and statistics which would be useful. It’s up to each person to decide whether their risk is acceptable.

    As for effectiveness, the sheriff who died had had the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, which does not use the mRNA technology. The Brazilian actor, Tarcísio Meira, had the CoronaVac from China, which does not use the mRNA technology. I haven’t seen any reports of people who had the mRNA vaccine who died from Covid-19 or got seriously ill from Covid-19.

  213. kali says:
    @Skeptikal

    Once again, Skeptical, you hit the nail on the head.

    And of course the answer is a firm “NO!” to all questions.
    [Though I´d happily answer “yes” if we were talking about the elimination of a religion/ideology/death-cult or three, as opposed to the elimination of the people/followers of those religions. but that´s a whole other topic!]

    Ron, along with the entire establishment media, has taken one huge subject and lumped all points of exploration into just two groups: “pro” and “anti” mass medical experimentation sans “informed consent”, which he further reduces to pro and anti “vaxx”, employing the same “anti-vaxx” pejorative deployed by the establishment against thinking people everywhere. He goes yet further and refers to those he labels “anti-vaxxers” as “crackpots”.

    Naturally this kind of behaviour and obvious marginalisation makes us suspicious of his motives, particularly given his record of objective analysis of data and the declared purpose of this website. Which in turn opens up a whole other topic of discussion.

    Yet we are not offered a forum to debate this separate “wtf Ron!?” issue, only a corner of this website labelled “anti-vaxx” in which we may discuss the “pros and cons” of “anti-vaxxery”. In the meantime, comments on his current American Pravda article, dealing with bioweapons, suggesting that one potential delivery mechanism for bioweapons may be injection are deemed “off topic”.

    But as you rightly point out, Skeptical, the entire debate on the covid19 “vaccination” issue may be boiled down, in the final analysis, to just one question, are we pro or anti FORCED “vaccination”, or, are we pro or anti “informed consent”.

    Never mind that we have been lied to from the very beginning regarding the spread and the lethality of the modelled but never isolated SARS-cov2 virus, the myth of asymptomatic transmission, the efficacy of masking versus the danger of masking, the death counts and case counts, the diagnostic capabilities of the PCR test, etc, etc.

    The final question has to be is it right that entire populations be forced, on pain of effective excommunication, to participate in a medical experiment which already has killed hundreds of thousands, or even millions, of people and injured many millions of others, which causes blood clots to form in vital organs of the body, which contains graphine oxide, and which induces the body to produce a bioactive agent in the form of the toxic spike protien*.

    Best wishes,
    Kali.

    [*Evidence for all of the above assertions has already been amply provided by many participants in other discussion threads which can be found under the “anti-vaxx” heading on this website. Any curious to confirm or refute these assertions are invited to explore those threads, particularly the very long Mike Whitney/Ron Unz and the Paul Craig Roberts threads. Additionally, earlier in this comment thread I provided a long list of links which largely corroborate my assertions and provide many other talking points besides. Hopefully that will satisfy Corvinus, Raches and their ilk.]

  214. Wild Man says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    On your comment:

    “And thus Alpha and Delta are sequentially more transmissible, in turn Alpha first generally replacing classic Wuhan, and Delta now replacing Alpha. This despite Alpha also being significantly more lethal than classic Wuhan, and that’s looking to be true for Delta compared to Alpha, both variants are overall more “fit.” Vaccinate people or not, there’s nothing we can do to stop this mechanism of variant creation for the foreseeable future.”

    Do you have something that substantiates your claim that Delta is more lethal than past variants? It looks to be less lethal than past variants, as per Covid Officialdom’s graphs of cases and deaths, as the Delta emerged, for most nations, (except for Israel) … except I don’t know what the current and probably ever-changing mix of Delta vs. other variants is, for each nation. But overall, it looks to be the opposite of what you say, for almost all nations (overall covid lethality going down at the same time one would assume the variant mix is featuring more and more Delta).

    So, …. assuming you have some substantiating evidence that it’s the Delta variant that is driving the increasing number of deaths in Israel (which is something that I have heard and read about … that it is Delta that is driving the very recent changing-for-the-worse covid-death-rate in Israel, …. but I have not substantiated said claim for myself, yet) …. well TWBT, wouldn’t that be great cause for worry over the increasing probability, day by day, that then, what may be occurring in Israel is vaxx-induced-systemic-immune-escape, which type of mutation profile, tends to be different than the mutation profile as occurring within a naturally acquired herd immunity scenario, whereby the first type tends to feature increased lethality at the same time as increased transmissibility, and the second type tends to feature a decreased lethality at the same time as an increased transmissibility?

  215. @Paul Craig Roberts

    Too often, Dr. Roberts, you overstate things. A headline like

    https://www.unz.com/proberts/all-of-the-evidence-is-in-the-covid-vaccine-is-a-failure/

    is facially incorrect (all the evidence can’t be in if we’re learning new things daily) and invites only those who want their bias confirmed.

    There’s an interesting parallel here with Mr. Unz’s overuse of modifiers like “completely” and big wahoo numbers like “at least 100 to 1.”

    You each might benefit from studying the dissembling That Would Be Telling’s affected calm condescension.

  216. cassandra says:
    @cassandra

    Addendum to my earlier post: I found a link this morning that documents my concerns more thoroughly:
    https://www.theorganicprepper.com/unvaccinated-discrimination/

    What has our society become, when social castigation has replaced informed discourse to resolve questions in the public intellectual marketplace?

  217. SafeNow says:

    “When will the ‘War On Fat’ begin?”

    Obesity is OT, because this is a vax blog. But as long as the obesity issue is raised, let it be said that this is an unmanageable medical condition. Permanent weight loss is hopeless, unless one is willing to traverse around 28 miles per week. That’s twenty-eight, no typo. Sorry. It is not a matter of, as your doctor might advise, taking the stairs, or parking in a far parking spot.

    In contrast, the other two main comorbidities, diabetes and hypertension, are highly treatable. Clinics to treat these should be ubiquitous, fast, free, and friendly. “Friendly” would be the hardest part, at least in the US.

    Of course, using air exchangers to turn the indoors into the outdoors, is a spectacularly effective intervention.

  218. @Greta Handel

    Update

    Dear Readers,

    Both vaxxers and anti-vaxxers are endeavoring to make the Covid vaccine a vaxx issue.

    It is not a vaxx issue.

    It is an issue of the vaccine. Due to Big Pharma greed and Tony Fauci’s hubris, an experimental technology was rushed into mass usage prior to its many adverse consequences being known.

    Making it a vaxx issue makes it difficult to stop the use of the double-dangerous vaccine as no vaxxer wants to concede defeat to anti-vaxxers.

    The solution is to remove the censorship of experts and the ban on known cures. Ivermectin and other known substances can stop the spread of the virus, and expert debate can lead to treatments for those millions who have been damaged by the vaccine.

    The current blind and ignorant authoritarianism must cease.

    https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2021/08/16/all-of-the-evidence-is-in-the-covid-vaccine-is-a-failure/

  219. @Greta Handel

    The only people still learning things about the Covid issue are those far behind the curve. Everything necessary to know to stop the use of the vaccine is known.

  220. @Carlton Meyer

    Raches is feeling its oats. However, anyone RU finds scintillating on the CChan bumble is someone to avoid.

    RU:

    But as the years went by and more and more mainstream voices endorsed global warming, I began to assume it must be true because “everyone said so,” or at least everyone not subsidized by Exxon Mobil. For similar reasons, I later assumed that Saddam must have WMDs—at least of the chemical or biological variety—given the absolutely uniform proclamations of our mainstream media commentariat.

    Brainiac. Get me to Pfizer headquarters so we can all ‘stay safe’; the bodies are everywhere! Also, we must hang ‘Saddam’ ASAP.

    • Replies: @Wild Man
  221. lysias says:
    @SafeNow

    Over the past year or so, I have succeeded in losing a substantial amount of weight by taking megadoses of Vitamin D (18,000 IU per day), which really reduces appetite. My waist was expanding in the lockdowns, so I felt I had to do something, and the Vitamin D did the trick. I hope my current Vitamin D blood level (84 ng/mL) will fight off any covid infection. It has already enabled me to defeat Type 2 diabetes (Hba1c went from 6.5 to 5.8).

    • Replies: @Carlton Meyer
  222. @InnerCynic

    Wasn’t it the head of Moderna that quipped they’d “developed” the vaccine within a couple of months after it was plopped onto the interwebs and media mafia organs? That alone shouted out to me “Booool Sheeet!”

    It’s a matter of record it took them exactly three days. First deposits of sequences of SARS-CoV-2 to Western repositories on Friday, January 10th, they had their candidate designed by Monday, January 13th.

    “Developed” doesn’t fit into “a couple of months,” maybe you misunderstood how long it took to make the first batch for animal and human testing, including the mandatory two week test for sterility?

    That you find this axiomatically BS just tells us you know nothing about modern vaccine development, the many years of research into that, and into safe SARS type coronavirus vaccines. Janssen was also testing their multiple candidates no later than early March 2020.

  223. bjondo [AKA "5 dancing shlomos"] says:

    Kick, drag, toss Milley (and Austin) out. Replace with this officer: Commander J. H. Furman.

    https://www.revolver.news/2021/08/navy-commander-warns-national-security-threat-from-mandatory-vaccination/

    Mandatory COVID-19 Vaccination – A National Security Threat, CDR Jay Furman, USN*

    The forced vaccination of all military personnel with the present COVID-19 vaccines may compromise U.S. national security due to the unknown extent of serious vaccine complications. Further study is needed before committing the Total Force to one irreversible experimental group. Recent reports leave more concern for the COVID-19 vaccinations than the virus itself for the (at present) exceptionally healthy military population, which is not appreciably impacted by the virus without vaccination.

    Same for civilian population. Poison is poison.
    Monsters could benefit from guillotining.

  224. @Paul Craig Roberts

    Well, then say “Enough Evidence..” or even “All the Evidence Necessary..”

    Revuskytis runs rampant.

  225. @IdCov

    The debate should be about what vaccines to favor from the point of view of long-term safety.

    That would be true, if “vaccines” were indeed our only hope to save us from the alleged naughty Corona Chan bug.

    But that’s not true.

    So in our current circumstances, the debate should really be about why we are being forced to use experimental “vaccines” at all, when a variety of cheap, safe, readily available and highly effective cures already exist but which our governments are ruthlessly suppressing and banning all across the Western world?

    [MORE]

    The idea that it is “all about profits” seems attractive, a no-brainer – but that seems to be undermined by your next question –

    Why don’t we in the EU, the UK, and the US, have the right to pick our favorite brand?

    Indeed, not only are we being denied the safe and effective nutritional and medicinal remedies which would stop Corona Chan in it’s tracks, we’re not allowed to choose from the offering of “vaccines” from around the world, and we’re not even allowed to pick from the smaller crop of “vaccines” produced by Western interests – all roads lead directly to the mRNA “vaccines”, and no reasoning or negotiation will be tolerated.

    And the Western government, media and medical beauracracies in their entirety are marching in “lockstep” to the WEF’s tune to force these experimental mRNA “vaccines” down our collective throats, for all ages right down to newborn babies.

    Sort of sounds like a conspiracy, although it’s hardly a “theory” when it’s all unfolding right in front of our eyes, in plain sight.

    And seeing as how there are so many much cheaper, safer and more effective alternatives to the very specifically mandated experimental mRNA “vaccines”, and seeing as how Corona Chan only actually threatened the elderly or otherwise severely immune compromised while Western officialdom seems determined to inject everyone with no exceptions, then we have to ask is this really about our health, or is some other agenda in play?

    Well, to answer that, consider our government and medical officials’ recurrent proposal to pin us all to the wall with “vaccine passports”. Just remember, whenever a government takes away any of your freedoms, they never ever give them back.

    And don’t lose sight of what’s coming, it’s just around the corner now, probably going to hit us all by the end of 2021 – Cyber Polygon Live, the “massive cyber attack” that Klaus Schwab himself exclaimed would be “like COVID-19 on steroids”.

  226. SHolmes says:

    One of the dangers of the mRNA vaccines that has caused alarm among some highly respected medical experts (including Drs. Mike Yeadon and Wolfgang Wodarg) is that these injections have the potential capacity to affect fertility, evidenced by reports of unusual bleeding and micarriages. Everyone should read this first article below, and the last few paragraphs of the second article, and ask themselves this question: “If they would do it once, why wouldn’t they do it again?”

    https://www.moonofshanghai.com/2020/05/a-cautionary-tale-about-who.html

    http://thesaker.is/propaganda-and-the-media-deception-on-a-grand-scale-part-2/

  227. There exist valid reasons for sincere people to be concerned about vaccines, unrelated to anything involving COVID-19. One of these is the well-documented instances of American vaccines being contaminated with various toxic and potentially fatal substances.

    It wasn’t so very long ago that the CDC admitted that nearly 100 million Americans had received polio vaccines contaminated with the potentially-cancerous simian (monkey) virus, and there have been quite a few similar though not so dramatic.

    And it isn’t a secret that the US government has paid out quite a few billions in compensation for injuries and deaths due to flawed vaccines. Do a quick search.

    There is also the CDC admission statement on one of its pages that a child who receives the entire gamut of prescribed childhood vaccines could potentially also receive more than 300 contaminants. I didn’t save the link for this page, but I can tell you it certainly shocked me when I read it.

    • Replies: @Bugey libre
  228. ko says:

    what you ought to do is tell roberts he has to open his bullshit to comments. I used to read him but since he’s a spoiled baby boy about people commenting off him, i scroll past him. not that i need to comment, but what an old craggy fart he is for no allowing comments. it’s not like he has to read them.

  229. dario says:

    BINDING TERM SHEET signed between Pfizer and Dominican Republic (English and Spanish)

    https://www.keionline.org/misc-docs/Pfizer-DominicanRepublic-Vaccine-Term-Sheet-19Jan2021.pdf

    About efficacy and safety, the document says (Pg 2 of 21):

    “MISPAS also acknowledges that the long-term effects and efficacy of the Vaccine are not currently known and that there may be adverse effects of the Vaccine that are not currently known.”

    (MISPAS: The Ministry of Public Health of the Dominican Republic)

    Regards,

  230. @onebornfree

    No, as you should well know, it’s an issue of personal freedom, at least in the US (or it should be).

    Your observation is correct, but it’s focused on the “vaccines” as though they are the fundamental issue here. In truth, the “vaccines” are being employed as a means to an end, one component in a larger operation to remove all our freedoms and grind us down into the dirt where people like Bill Gates and Klaus Schwab want us to remain, forever.

    We shouldn’t even be placed into a position of demanding the freedom to “choose” or “not choose” to be injected with these bioweapons disguised as “vaccines”, because (given the ready availability of highly effective nutritional and medicinal remedies for what has proven to be a relatively benign respiratory bug) these experimental “vaccines” should not even be in play at all.

    The real choice that we’re being denied is free speech and access to the truth, and accountability of our government officials and beauracrats. We’re being railroaded by our political, media and medical institutions in lockstep with the WEF’s vision of a dystopian future where we will all “own nothing and be happy”.

    If we thought our free choice was being infringed by mandated experimental “vaccines” which aren’t required and shouldn’t even exist, just wait and see what choices we have left once the “massive cyber attack” brings down the global financial and logistic systems when the WEF’s Cyber Polygon 2021 goes “live” later this year.

    • Replies: @onebornfree
  231. @Oldtradesman

    Who cares about the socio-economic background of people? We should be all united in the quest for truth, health. This is what is going on here at the present moment. If Phds make some money, it is somehow a just reward for hard work.

    We’re not talking about corrupted people…

  232. Wild Man says:
    @schnellandine

    Yes …. I don’t think Mr. Unz has any kind of track record that would allow one to draw the rational conclusion that he possesses superior signal detection cognitive apparatus as informing his overall intuition, in real-time. Clearly, by his own past statements, he does not. As per his own statements, this all comes to him much later, after carefully analyzing the signals embedded in the social/intellectual/academaic/cultural/governmental environment, as per an in-depth historical analysis of the phenomenon Mr. Unz chooses to examine.

    And this is all well and good. This in-depth historical analysis methodology is needed and valuable. But there are plenty of people, some possessing perhaps a smallish ratio of Mr. Unz’s IQ, … that have very good intuition as informed by superior signal detection cognitive apparatus, in real-time. Those with Mr. Unz’s specific talents best not lose sight of that.

    • Agree: schnellandine
    • Replies: @Onebornfree
  233. Raches says:
    @Greta Handel

    So, this is an Inquisition; and to dispel suspicions of heresy, you demand from Mr. Unz an affirmation of faith. It is not unlike the commonplace social expectation that everyone will join in on chorused condemnations of Hitler.

    Speaking of Hitler, I’ll tell you what: Why don’t you burn me at the stake, instead.

    I am an authoritarian. That is no secret: I love Hitler, remember? Do you seriously suppose that Adolf Hitler would be willing to entertain liberal notions about so-called “human rights” and “individual freedom of choice”?

    But contrary to what Hollywood told you, Hitler was an exquisitely nuanced thinker; and so am I. As I alluded earlier, my own views are a bit more complex than you may imagine.

    First, to clarify the issues in the abstract, consider an extreme hypothetical: If we could trust the government (which we cannot), and we were facing the Black Death (which Covid is not), and we had a perfectly effective vaccine with absolutely zero side effects (which we do not, and never will), then obviously, I would support rounding you up like an animal and jabbing you. Call up the SS. I don’t give a damn about your “informed consent”. Heil Hitler!

    Now, instead of that fantastic hypothetical, consider the reality that we face today.

    The vaccines cannot be considered in isolation. Our sources of information about the vaccines—and indeed, detailed data about Covid itself (such as morbidity statistics at better granularity and accuracy than Mr. Unz can infer from excess deaths, etc.) are controlled by the same societal institutions as would formulate, enact, and execute a program of mandatory vaccination. From information to decision to execution, the soundness of those institutions is of primary importance.

    As I told Corvinus in the prior thread, trust and credibility must be earned, not demanded. This is a question of both intentions, which may be malicious, and competence, which may be inadequate. Malice is commonplace in human affairs, especially in modern times; and even in the absence of malice, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

    In my opinion, a wise and benevolent dictatorship is the best form of government ever invented. Contrary to popular myths, any authoritarian government that achieves political stability must first earn the trust of its people; rule by brute force tends to instability. My love of authoritarianism and my demand for trustworthy institutions are not only noncontradictory, but congruent.

    As you saw in one of my replies to Tony Hall, I remarked obiter that the government has proved that in every circumstance where it does not act maliciously, it is incompetent. It is no accident that the context of that remark was my expression of extreme opposition to coercive vaccination, with open hints that I would resist with violence. It is also no accident that if you examine my posts, you will see frequent references to “our untrustworthy governments”, with emphasis in the original. (Such precision in thinking is probably not unnoticed by Mr. Unz, although most others will just scroll on by.)

    My rebellious attitude is not inconsistent with my authoritarianism. Look, the Führer himself said so! In Mein Kampf I.3, the greatest authoritarian leader in history wrote:

    If a government uses the instruments of power in its hands for the purpose of leading a people to ruin, then rebellion is not only the right but also the duty of every individual citizen.

    Governments which have a long record of leading their people to ruin do not magically become wise and benevolent, when they are faced with a convenient crisis which has in many ways brought out the very worst in human nature.

    Now, stack that against the following:

    1. Covid is not the Black Death.

    2. Ever since the start of the pandemic, the mass-hysteria over Covid has been more worrisome to me than Covid itself. I do not deny or minimize the danger of Covid. I frankly acknowledged from the start that many people would die from this. But the mass-hysteria is even worse: I forsaw that it could turn very grim prospects into an unmitigated catastrophe. I have been intending to comment further on this. In this context, at the very least, we must consider that mass-hysteria tends to make for poor public policy decisions—or even disastrous follies.

    3. The Covid vaccines are, as Mr. Unz himself said, probably much more dangerous than the vaccines to which we are more ordinarily accustomed. And we must not only consider the dangers of death and acute morbidity: I quite reasonably want to see some long-term data, too. Chronic conditions can be worst of all, for some people. Anyone who says otherwise has not faced human suffering in its more horrific forms.

    4. I oughtn’t need to repeat what Mr. Unz said about this in bold letters:

    As for the vaccines, one major problem that’s now been discovered is that they don’t seem very effective in preventing vaccinated people from infecting others, so there doesn’t seem much reason for the government to forcibly require vaccinations. Relative to vaccinated people, the unvaccinated don’t harm others as much as themselves.

    5. In my assessment, the Covid censorship is a datum of prime importance. When Mr. Unz reviewed the prior thread, I hope that he noticed the factor which drew me into this, as I explained in my very first comment in this discussion:

    To my mind, the Covid censorship has been one of the most striking phenomena of the past year and a half. I despise pseudoscientific quackery. Early on during the pandemic, I was inclined to dismiss many of the “alternative” medical claims together with the gibberish of the “Covid does not exist” or “viruses do not exist” canaille. But when I see intelligent skeptics and even medical professionals who deviate from the medical orthodoxy being suppressed, that forces me to step back and consider revising my own views.

    In a political environment in which reasonable concerns and intelligent critics are simply being steamrolled in all major channels of public communication, the very idea of forced vaccination is insane.

    (For those who may wonder, I am most concerned about enforced conformity in the intellectual classes, not the mass media; and there is nothing inconsistent between this and my political opinions. I may explain at greater length, if warranted.)

    6–n. Other highly important factors that I will not hereby reach, so that I can avoid writing a book in an Internet comment. Cutting this short:

    Overall, for well-considered reasons, I conclude that if, in the face of reasonable concerns and credible opposition, manifestly deplorable governments were to decree a policy of forced vaccination, then ipso facto, I would presume conclusively that the vaccines are much worse than I had ever suspected; and this would irrevocably foreclose in my mind all possible counterarguments.

    Therefore, I would resist—at all costs, by any means necessary; and I would encourage everyone else to do so. Yes, I would very forcibly resist people who were there forcibly to “help” me “for my own good”. I would reck aught of who they are, what credentials they have, how much they love their kids or their puppies, or how deep their faith in their missionary work of saving the “hesitant” heathen. It would simply be self-defense. Hands off! This way lies the road to Hell, its flagstones laid step by step with do-gooding hands, its course mapped by those whose minds are infected with viral mass-panic.

    That being said, I do not oppose mandatory vaccinations absolutely, in the abstract, in principle, in any imaginable circumstance whatsoever. So, go ahead and get out the stake for me. As I said, I’ve got matches.

  234. @ko

    what you ought to do is tell roberts he has to open his bullshit to comments. I used to read him but since he’s a spoiled baby boy about people commenting off him, i scroll past him.

    IMO Dr. Roberts’ posts are always worth reading, because he has been on top of the Corona Chan “pandemic” hoax from day one, and consistently draws attention to recent developments and what they mean.

    It can be disappointing that Dr. Roberts doesn’t often open his Unz Review submissions for comments, but then again whatever appears here is also published on Dr. Roberts’ own site ( paulcraigroberts.org ) and he does provide the facility to leave feedback there.

    … not that i need to comment …

    Yet you do seem upset if you can’t.

    … it’s not like he has to read them.

    Given responsibility for moderation, and just professional integrity, I’d say that he probably does.

  235. @Chicken Little

    Hello,

    During the H1N1 scam, the French government had buy 92 millions of doses of a vaccine which had been forbade in Japan and deemed dangerous. Morin, the then minister of the army had said at that time that vaccination should be “militarized”.

    The population refused to be injected when they heard many doctors warning, all vaccinodrome were canceled( Today the same wistleblowers, whatever their credential and fame are censored, like Didier raoult and his 132 pages curriculum vitae)
    Roseline Bachelot, the then minister of health (she had only worked with Big Pharma before that job) was sued for poisoning in the tribunal of Grenoble (I was among the plaintifs) but she was protected behind “secret défense”.

    There are many scandals around vaccines like cerverix, etc, etc… hundred of thousand people have been injured. This has been amply documented.

    This is why vaccines and vaccine quality should be a subject of debate and my family doctor with whom we used to have conversations agreed about that fact. He was not antivaxx but an honest man dedicated to his patients.

    • Replies: @Bugey libre
    , @Dumbo
  236. CondZero says:

    M2C. It is hard (NOT) to notice what’s going on today with critical thinking skills intact to not believe given the stance of globalist organizations like the UN, WEF, IMF, WHO, et al that COVID is not a man made flu developed in a bioweapons lab (FT. DETRICK, WUHAN) or otherwise and a convenient tool (PLANDEMIC) b/c the WHO says so to subjugate a population taking away more liberties.
    Don’t think so? Why has Big Tech colluding with the U.S. government censored any and all information negative or otherwise to the Establishment narrative? Why has a rushed experimental gene altering drug that has failed every animal test, been rushed into nee mandated as necessary when there are other existing medications that can quell the virus. Why, this time around, has a flu been used to mask up, social distance and lockdown nations and destroy economies? Why is this coincidental to monopolizing the small businesses deemed unessential, why is this convenient for our Fed and Central Banks to print more money for a failed Financial system and provide the means for the biggest transfer of wealth in modern history? Why are there 9 new Billionaires associated with Big Pharma? Why was there an Event 201 so closely tied to this Plandemic. Over 10 years ago this same kind of plandemic was visualized in the Rockefeller files. Why were COVID models that had inherent flaws predicting millions of deaths used to substantiate national shutdowns? Why were all influenza, flu and COVID deaths all lumped together to cause additional fear, panic and hysteria by the MSM to the masses.
    There’s much more if you read. I guess it’s what you read and understand and make your own informed choices that passes for being anti-vax or that a vax with over 12000 deaths (presumably undercounted in VAERS) can even still be mandated when they pulled the plug on the Swine Flu vaccine with only 26 deaths. I guess we’ve reached peak lunacy.

    • Replies: @Simon Tugmutton
  237. Alfred says:

    David Icke has been predicting all of this for decades. I lived near him in Ryde, Isle of Wight, for 5 years – but I had not heard of him at that time. 🙂

    If you wish to understand what was the “first wave” in the USA and the UK, you must listen to this.

    Big Pharma’s Worst Nightmare – David Icke


    • Agree: John Wear
    • Thanks: Onebornfree
  238. @Bugey libre

    After that scandal, France tried to sell those so called vaccines to Poland. What a bunch of psychopaths…

  239. Wild Man says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    On your passage:

    “So the TL;DR is that if you believe in vaccines, and believe that the mRNA vaccines are “safe and effective” as I do, and officially they’re more effective than the single dose Janssen, you fail to get a lot without at least one boost dose, there’s nothing sinister about the powers that be pushing them in the US, modulo risk/benefit calculations that I suspect start to get serious for those under thirty.”

    See …. this is the thing that is rather frustrating, with respect to your comments, TWBT. You appear to be someone that possesses alot of knowledge around the expert field of biologics. (And just for the record … can you please tell me precisely what this personal expertise on your part is comprised of? Academic background? Did you, or do you currently, work in the field? If so, precisely which sub-component of biologics expertise do you if did you work in?). Yet, your conclusions drawn here, often do not follow, at all, from your prior claims. For example, there has been so much posted here (on the various threads you partook of), by so many of the commentariat, that have provided you with plenty of material to see that your claims that the mRNA vaxxes are both safe and effective, is not really the case. Why are you not engaging with the vast amount of material that has already been posted here, in that vein?

    Since you don’t do that …. I really have no clue as to how to take you, and your overall level of expertise. You often do a very good job of paraphrasing what studies say and such, but then go on to draw conclusions, that nevertheless, are not warranted, like the above quoted passage. I agree that the field of biologics is fascinating, and that some of the technology appears to be very advanced. It seems that is your central claim … and I don’t disagree ….. but how does said fascination with said advancments count as a reason not to take any considerations around the evidence that has been emerging for many months already, that nevertheless, the mRNA vaxxes are not really safe and are not really very effective?

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  240. @kali

    The final question has to be is it right that entire populations be forced, on pain of effective excommunication, to participate in a medical experiment which already has killed hundreds of thousands, or even millions, of people and injured many millions of others…

    The answer to that question is black-and-white, self-evident and emphatic – “NO”.

    Whether it’s “right” or not, however, is an entirely separate question to whether they “can be”.

    So far, the answer to the latter question is, evidently, “YES”.

    Truth is, the experimental “vaccines” shouldn’t even exist – the logic which precipitated their manufacture and deployment has been provided by the WEF’s global psyop, the fake Corona Chan “pandemic”. All obstacles to this narrative – including the existence of cheap, safe, effective and readily available remedies for the alleged Corona Chan bug – have been bulldozed out of the way to implement the WEF’s plan.

    The experimental mRNA “vaccines” are the pathway to global “vaccine passports” – just one component in the WEF’s long-planned journey to the “Great Reset”, and there are more surprises coming in that narrow “window of opportunity” to railroad us all into Klaus Schwab’s wet dream where we will all “own nothing and be happy”.

    The “massive cyber attack” to bring down the global financial and logistic systems is only a month or two away now – Klaus Schwab himself said it will be like “COVID-19 on steroids”. If we haven’t killed the Corona Chan “pandemic” and the experimental mRNA “vaccines” before that happens, the entirety of the Western world is literally screwed. Bend over and kiss your collective butt goodbye.

  241. @Raches

    In my opinion, a wise and benevolent dictatorship is the best form of government ever invented.

    This is self-evident.

    Interesting that the paradigm of Western “civilisation” seems so malevolently opposed to it.

    If you’re going to have a dictator, make sure you get a good one.

    Fidel Castro was a good one. So was Muammar Gadaffi. And (dare I say it?) so was Herr Hitler.

    • Replies: @Ben the Layabout
  242. @lysias

    Some medical doctors suggest that ample Vitamin D makes healthy people nearly immune to COVID-19. Most people are deficient in Vitamin D and most elderly are severely deficient. Your body creates Vitamin D naturally when sunlight penetrates the skin and interacts with the fat underneath. Due to fun with technology, people spend much less time outdoors and some elderly people never feel sunlight, especially during the winter months. Darker skin is more difficult for sunlight to penetrate so such urban people are often severely deficient in Vitamin D, which explains their higher rate of COVID-19 deaths. Vitamin D is rare in food so most people get little. Experts agree on this, yet our governments never mention the need to take Vitamin D supplements or getting out into the sun, they just scream about wearing masks. Is this because sales of Vitamin D provide no profits for the politically powerful pharmaceutical industry?

    Multi-vitamins provide the recommended 600 units, 200 to 400 more are recommended for the elderly, obese, or those who rarely feel sunlight. Some doctors recommend 5000 units a day during the winter and to resist disease. Vitamin D supplements (called Vitamin D3) are cheap and everywhere. One problem is that oral Vitamin D3 is very difficult for the body to absorb. One must take supplements for weeks before it has spread throughout the body, so taking it after getting sick does not help much. It also repels other viruses and common colds.

    This is another reason I mistrust the COVID narrative. I have never heard or read Fauci encourage Americans to get more sun or take Vitamin D supplements. I wish someone would ask him about this. I saw Joe Rogan talking to an expert who advocated 5000 units a day. Rogan said he now takes 5000 units after his doctor and others told him the same thing, so I bought some at Costco, they are 2 cents for each small 2000 unit tablet. Two of those plus my multivitamin gives me 5000 a day.

    • Replies: @acementhead
    , @mike99588
  243. Raches says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    For everyone here, this is an important illustration.

    Mr. Meyer, I curtly suggested that you should straighten out your own thinking so that you could gain some credibility; you replied with the type of warped thinking which is stereotypical of the crackpot “conspiracy theorist” mindset:

    Wow, you provided a great example of a propagandist smear against someone exposing the truth. […] These types of shrill attacks from Big Pharma/Big Government trolls are why people are mistrustful of official COVID information.

    In intelligence and counterintelligence (not to mention basic life wisdom), actions and results are weighed more than mere words. If you read the announcement at the top of this thread, you will notice that Mr. Unz found persuasive my arguments for keeping this topic alive here. If I had not thrown aside other activities to post 23,000 words of commentary in the other thread, then I think it’s likely that you would not be able to post your stuff here at all.

    How do my actions suit the agenda of someone who wants to suppress exposure of “the truth”? Do you suppose that such an agenda is better served by what you ridiculously allege to be “teenage level personal attacks against the messenger”, than by shutting you up altogether?

    I file this with the various theories that Mr. Unz runs this whole website for the purpose of suppressing people’s opinions by giving them a platform. There is much of that scattered around here, including in this thread.

    Before you say “controlled opposition”, may I remind you that controlled-opposition fringe movements works best when they are discreditable. Otherwise, it risks persuading too many normal people—and thus, it may grow uncontrollably into real opposition.

    You are eminently discreditable. That makes you a very useful idiot, at best.

    I have spent many hours of my time striving to establish the basic credibility of those who don’t want the Covid shots. I shot you down, as you richly deserved, as an exemplary demonstration for that purpose. My implicit message: “Not all unvaccinated people are stupid like this.” This obviously benefits unvaccinated people, at a time when the mainstream media is pushing the narrative that we are all ignorant morons and lunatics hell-bent on spreading the plague.

    Intelligent dissidents of all kinds should study what I am doing here. It is generally applicable, far beyond this vaccine debate. You’re welcome.

    You refute nothing and provide no counter information, just teenage level personal attacks against the messenger.

    First, in three short sentences, I conclusively refuted your cheap, transparent propaganda trick of redefining the word “vaccine”. Since as I noted, you had already destroyed your own credibility, there was no reason to waste time on the rest of your arguments. I highlighted the stereotypical use of videos for information; and then, I acknowledged that there was some kernel of truth in the concerns you buried in nonsense and ALL CAPS HISTRIONICS at the bottom of your post. I acknowledged that, because that kernel of truth is actually important to me; and I am aggrieved to see you discrediting it with your nonsense.

    I concluded by generously offering you what is undoubtedly some of the wisest personal advice you have ever received. If you do not wish to heed it, that is not my problem.

    __________

    For those who may tell me that I am wasting my time: I am writing for the sake of the audience—not for Mr. Meyer’s personal benefit, much less any personal desire to win pointless arguments on the Internet. As I said up top, this is illustrative.

    • Disagree: Wild Man, John Wear
    • Troll: kali
  244. @SafeNow

    Assuming you’re right, 28 miles is 4 miles/day, 7 days/week. Walking at 3 miles/hour, it should take less than 1 1/2 hours/day. Not that much if you’re really motivated. IIRC, the California missions were built ~30 miles apart so that a person could walk from one to the next in a day.

  245. Raches says:
    @onebornfree

    Speaking only for myself, of course—Mr. Unz may foreseeably have some quibbles with me here:

    It would therefore appear that both yourself and Mr Unz are in favour of mandatory “vaccination” for US citizens , provided there is ” much reason” to do so, or am I missing something? 😎

    Please refer to my 1,300-word reply to Greta Handel. What you missed is that I’m figuratively literally Hitler. 😎

    On the other hand, I presented the strongest argument yet made against forced vaccination—and if warranted, I can carry that argument much further. I am free to do so, because I don’t care about some scrap of paper called a “Constitution”, I don’t believe in “human rights”, and I laugh at “informed consent”.

    Think carefully about whether or not you want to hate me.

    • Replies: @Wild Man
    , @onebornfree
  246. @Wild Man

    After asking me to dox myself in a context where a substantial fraction of the topic participants wish me harm, after your quoting me saying I believe the mRNA vaccines to be safe and effective and worth the risk/benefit calculation probably down to around those aged thirty, you say:

    For example, there has been so much posted here (on the various threads you partook of), by so many of the commentariat, that have provided you with plenty of material to see that your claims that the mRNA vaxxes are both safe and effective, is not really the case. Why are you not engaging with the vast amount of material that has already been posted here, in that vein?

    Because except for nailing down how much efficacy all these vaccines lose against Delta none of that material is credible, and most of it is patently false. Which has been hashed out extensively for months on Unz.com. You cannot change the truth by endless repetition of these assertions, and in a topic like this one which is ~98% antivaxx one is left wondering what are your motivations for posting comments.

    • Troll: Theophrastus
    • Replies: @Wild Man
    , @Wild Man
  247. res says:
    @Alfred

    This study was based on one large medical practice. The fact that no one else seems to have tried reproducing it speaks volumes. The climate of intimidation is prevalent in research of this type.

    Indeed. Have you followed what has happened with this study? It was retracted last month with this extremely enlightening (/sarc) explanation.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8345674/

    The journal retracts the article “Relative Incidence of Office Visits and Cumulative Rates of Billed Diagnoses along the Axis of Vaccination” cited above [1]. Following publication, concerns were brought to the attention of the editorial office regarding the validity of the conclusions of the published research.

    Adhering to our complaints procedure, an investigation was conducted that raised several methodological issues and confirmed that the conclusions were not supported by strong scientific data. The article is therefore retracted.

    This retraction is approved by the Editor in Chief of the journal.

    The authors did not agree to this retraction.

    The author of the paper (and head of that medical practice) had his medical license suspended in December.
    https://www.modernhealthcare.com/physicians/pediatricians-license-suspended-oregon-over-vaccines
    https://olis.oregonlegislature.gov/liz/2021R1/Downloads/PublicTestimonyDocument/23422 (210 page PDF)

    He got his license back in July. Provided he does not talk about vaccines.
    https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/93566

    Fascinating. Does anyone know more about this story?

    • Thanks: Alfred
    • Replies: @utu
    , @Anon
  248. @Raches

    My implicit message: “Not all unvaccinated people are stupid like this.” This obviously benefits unvaccinated people, at a time when the mainstream media is pushing the narrative that we are all ignorant morons and lunatics hell-bent on spreading the plague.

    For the participants in the last couple of discussions involving Mr. Unz the MSM narrative you dislike has so much truth it only perhaps earns the label narrative when extended to the unvaccinated of the US as a whole.

    Which is something my local media is having absolutely no problems portraying as they present us with sob stories of people who indeed have had those battlefield conversions you don’t like, but thanks to social media we can see this unfiltered, can often verify the stories with a little effort. In truth, “ignorant morons and lunatics hell-bent on spreading the plague” is all to often fitting until these people experience death, their own impending death or losing a loved one. And dovetail with the death statistics my local region is now reporting, informal from hospital systems and formal from units of government.

    For those who may tell me that I am wasting my time: I am writing for the sake of the audience—not for Mr. Meyer’s personal benefit, much less any personal desire to win pointless arguments on the Internet.

    In these dog days of summer for this new thread started yesterday by Mr. Unz, I’ve counted precisely two other people so far who are your audience….

    • Replies: @Wild Man
    , @Raches
  249. Wild Man says:
    @Raches

    On you passage:

    “On the other hand, I presented the strongest argument yet made against forced vaccination—and if warranted, I can carry that argument much further.”

    No …. Raches …. your argument is more-or-less sound, but it is hardly the strongest argument yet made against forced vaccination. You are just paraphrasing what many many of the commentariat here, have been saying for months. You do say it with more words, though. You are wordy. That doesn’t necessarily make the argument better …. in your case …. it appears to make your argument more hubristic … so maybe you should be the one to drop a bad habit. For example, often the wordiness of your offerings, is about splitting hairs over semantics. You think that is a virtue? (I don’t).

    Otherwise, the authoritarian component of your overall argument is bogus (though that component, is not needed at all, to makes any of your points about covid-vaxx-hesitancy).

    • Agree: Theophrastus
  250. @Vergissmeinnicht

    So why on earth wouldn’t you try to lose weight, adopt a healthier lifestyle, any number of more proactive and effective options than injection oneself with experimental poison? The reasoning here is beyond pathetic.

    • Replies: @Realist
  251. utu says:

    What would Lenin do if upon his arrival at Finland Station in Petrograd on April 16, 1917 he was greeted by crowds of anti-vaxxers and there were no Bolsheviks in site? Would he adapt and adopt Diderot’s famous quote:

    “Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last Big Pharma executive”?

    Ron Unz dilemma?

  252. Wild Man says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    On your passage:

    “After asking me to dox myself in a context where a substantial fraction of the topic participants wish me harm, after your quoting me saying I believe the mRNA vaccines to be safe and effective and worth the risk/benefit calculation probably down to around those aged thirty, you say:”

    I don’t know what you mean by doxxing yourself. I already told you quite a few weeks ago (back in late June I believe), about my personal background, to better inform you about the nature of my comments. Why is asking for same from you a request for self-doxxing? You can answer those questions I put to you without doxxing yourself. I provided info as to my professional background without doxxing myself. Why can’t you?

    Nobody wishes you harm. You did repetitively insinuate that the covid-vaxx-hesitant are sociopathic. You got push back on that. Your such comments were so hubristic, and uncalled for, and inaccurate, and just plain dumb, that some, such as myself, indicated that it makes one wonder if it is you, in fact, whom is behaving with sociopathic intent.

    Thank-you for clarifying your claim, as to what you meant about the risk/benefit for those below the age of 30. Your original comment wasn’t clear, and paired with what you said up-thread about Delta being more lethal (a claim that I don’t think has been substantiated), …. I thought you may have meant the risk for unvaxxed-under-30-year-olds, is greater than for vaxxed-under-30-year-olds, and now, by way of your clarification here, I can see that I was mistaken, and you do indeed apparently think that the risk for the vaxxed-under-30-year-olds, is greater than for the unvaxxed-under-30-year-olds, which if this is indeed what you meant, …. then you and I can find some agreement on at least this one point. And for the record, your original comment, was not at all clear, as quoted here again:

    “So the TL;DR is that if you believe in vaccines, and believe that the mRNA vaccines are “safe and effective” as I do, and officially they’re more effective than the single dose Janssen, you fail to get a lot without at least one boost dose, there’s nothing sinister about the powers that be pushing them in the US, modulo risk/benefit calculations that I suspect start to get serious for those under thirty.”

    OK then … this leaves the last part of your comment, where you claim, in response to my contention that you not engaging with the vast amount of material that has already been posted here, that indicates that the mRNA vaxxes are not safe, nor very effective:

    “Because except for nailing down how much efficacy all these vaccines lose against Delta none of that material is credible, and most of it is patently false. Which has been hashed out extensively for months on Unz.com. You cannot change the truth by endless repetition of these assertions, and in a topic like this one which is ~98% antivaxx one is left wondering what are your motivations for posting comments”

    Just because you say so …. that the posted material is not credible and patently false? It has already been shown here, that as far as we can glean so far, with respect to Covid Officialdom’s very poor communications with the general public with respect to vaxx-death-rates and vaxx-adverse-reaction-rates … that it is Covid Officialdom that has the credibility problem. TWBT – please address said credibility problem.

    Ditto with respect to mRNA vaccine effectiveness. It has already been shown here, that as far as we can glean so far, with respect to Covid Officialdom’s very poor communications with the general public with respect to changing efficacy of vaxx effectiveness over short time frames (6 months or less) … that it is Covid Officialdom that has the credibility problem. TWBT – please address said credibility problem.

  253. @Paul Craig Roberts

    The issue is not one of vaxx vs. anti-vaxx

    I agree with that statement, because there is a third perspective: can you treat/cure Covid? If so, it removes the need for hospitalization and subsequent death if done early, vaxxed or unvaxxed.

    The answer appears to be a resounding “YES”, but it is never given any visibility by the MSM. It also appears, from the MSM perspective that there is only one doctor in the world, and he is the only one allowed to present an opinion on this matter.

    I doubt very many of us have viewed this testimony before the Texas Senate HHS Committee, which I insist is an absolute must-view for everyone on this thread:

    • Thanks: Ultrafart the Brave, Nancy
    • Replies: @Anon
  254. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Raches

    “That being said, I do not oppose mandatory vaccinations absolutely, in the abstract, in principle, in any imaginable circumstance whatsoever”

    And there it is. You don’t belong here. So please, fuck off to N.Korea, or China, or Israel, or Canada, or Australia, or N. Zealand or wherever else you belong, and take that Nazi asshole Arnold with you, while you’re at it, you long- winded,pseudo-intellectual, pontificating Nazi twerp!

    No regards, onebornfree

    • Agree: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • LOL: Raches
    • Replies: @Raches
  255. Johnno says:

    I believe one thing that is missing from the discussion is the probability that all this hullabaloo has nothing to to with viruses, or vaccines…

    It’s about a NEW PASSPORT SYSTEM.

    I believe that’s the real goal.

    That’s what all these lockdowns and no-entry without your mask/papers are conditioning people for, as borders are closed to all citizens except the illegals.

    At some point the powers will begin restricting entry based on the sort of experimental shot you take.

    Took Sputnik V? That’s Russian. We don’t recognize that, you can’t enter through our borders.

    Took Pfzier? That’s American and not approved by our nation, you can’t enter through our borders.

    We’re being herded into a deliberate culster&$%^ of a disaster of bureaucracy, and the answer will be that some new global centralized body will need to be created that will monitor and handle the movement of people.

    Since the new passport system is designed to be digital first and foremost, the technology can be shifted to accommodate anything. When Covid goes away, it could be based on CO2 levels or tied to mean tweets on your social media accounts. A ban on the Facebook results in a flag on your passport, which then denies you entry into this nation/state/province/government building/bank/department store.

    They want you carrying this around everywhere. For convenience’s sake, either on your phone, or by some kind of identifier that is permanently branded on your body like a microchip or something, so the thing only causes the alarm to beep when a person of threat walks through the automatic doors, or they simply don’t open.

    I believe that is their end-goal. The necessitating of a new centralized world government agency that monitors the movement, employment and expressions of people.

    The clot-shots are the test to see whether or not you listen to government and do what they say.

    But that won’t last long, so they are rushing to install the passport system by every draconian means possible.

    • Agree: acementhead, Tony Hall
  256. TTSSYF says:
    @SafeNow

    But as long as the obesity issue is raised, let it be said that this is an unmanageable medical condition. Permanent weight loss is hopeless, unless one is willing to traverse around 28 miles per week.

    That’s a strawman argument. Losing a significant amount of weight cannot be done by exercise alone. You have to reduce your calorie intake. And, as another poster pointed out, 28 miles a week is not all that much. Even ten miles a week would be of benefit.

    And yes, there should be fat-shaming. The number of obese people in this country is a disgrace.

    • Replies: @lysias
  257. Wild Man says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    On your passage:

    “For the participants in the last couple of discussions involving Mr. Unz the MSM narrative you dislike has so much truth it only perhaps earns the label narrative when extended to the unvaccinated of the US as a whole.”

    What is this supposed to mean? Write more clearly please.

    Your further comment:

    “Which is something my local media is having absolutely no problems portraying as they present us with sob stories of people who indeed have had those battlefield conversions you don’t like, but thanks to social media we can see this unfiltered, can often verify the stories with a little effort. In truth, “ignorant morons and lunatics hell-bent on spreading the plague” is all to often fitting until these people experience death, their own impending death or losing a loved one. And dovetail with the death statistics my local region is now reporting, informal from hospital systems and formal from units of government.”

    Oh, … OK …. you meant, that at the local level, it can’t be about Covid Officialdom’s lying narrative, because instead, at the local level, it’s about Covid Officialdom’s truthful truthiness? Wut? You make no damn sense. Really … please write more clearly. How is Covid Officiadom’s actions at the local level not prescribed by Covid Officialdom at the global level? And if you indeed are also arguing for Covid Officialdom’s ‘almost truthful truthiness’, at the global level, …. well … how do you explain then, that Covid Officialdom has committed 7 (and potentially 11) egregious, obnoxious, and very harmful lies to date?

    • Agree: Polemos
  258. Ron Unz says:

    Well, I hadn’t intended to participate in this thread, but it’s already accrued over 250 comments after little more than a day, and that despite the huge distraction of the Afghanistan situation. So I think I’ll try to summarize in just a few sentences why I find the whole vaxxing issue so uninteresting and not worth any of my time. Since the details I’m citing are from my casual reading of the newspapers, don’t take them too seriously.

    (1) The anti-vaxxers argue that getting vaxxed is very dangerous, and the pro-vaxxers argue that failing to get vaxxed is very dangerous. The anti-vaxxers also emphasize that vaxxing can’t be undone.

    (2) Obviously, the resolution to that question has huge importance to those individuals who aren’t yet gotten vaxxed, but I just don’t see why it matters that much to our country or the world as a whole. Supposedly, over 160 million American adults have already been vaxxed, and more than two billion worldwide. So aren’t any potentially ill-effects already just water under the bridge? After all, those are enormous numbers, and probably include the overwhelming majority of the world’s educated elites. I mean if many tens of millions of Americans all suddenly drop dead or develop serious permanent health problems, wouldn’t that already totally destroy our society?

    (3) But on the other side, it looks like vaxxing doesn’t block Covid infections, and vaxxed people can still infect others. Since the Delta strain is so extremely contagious, that means that sooner or later—probably sooner—almost everyone in America will have gotten infected. However, according to the MSM, vaxxed people only very rarely get seriously ill, while the Delta strain is extremely dangerous to the unvaxxed, at least for those over 50 or with other health problems. So if the MSM is correct, the vaxxed will generally do alright, while the unvaxxed will be devastated, and once that happens to enough prominent members of that group, most of the survivors will probably get themselves vaxxed double-quick.

    (4) So to summarize, if the anti-vaxxers are correct, there’s not much America can do about its catastrophic mistake. But if the vaxxers are correct, the anti-vaxxers will soon begin to pay a terrible price for their personal folly. Either way, I think we’ll probably find out in a relatively short time.

  259. MarkU says:
    @orchardist

    That is the sort of stuff that should be taught in colleges, good post.

  260. I’d like to know more about the disease itself.

    There was talk early on about covid causing scarring in the lung tissues. There is some evidence that it causes tiny blood clots in the lungs which block capillaries. This should be easy enough to check with a microscope. But so far there is no definitive statement about how covid actually kills people.

    Another thing missing is treatment. The MSM is dismissing and censoring any mention of treatments. Ivermectin seems in some studies to function as both a a prophylactic and a treatment. We are getting this information from front-line doctors actually treating the disease.

    Mr. Unz insouciance seems premature. For one thing the political ramifications of covid such as health passports and government overreach are deeply disturbing. It sure looks a like a Police State is forming in France, Australia and New York.

    Another aspect is that the authorities are talking about booster shots. So it is not a one-and-done issue.

    It’s more a case of Needle And The Damage Done

  261. MarkU says:
    @Nancy

    Indeed, it does look very much like an attempt to wipe out the control group. Long term vaccine related illnesses are going to be much harder to prove if there is no control group to compare with.

    • Replies: @fredtard
  262. utu says:
    @res

    Is the paper that was withdrawn available anywhere?

    • Replies: @Alfred
  263. @Ron Unz

    The anti-vaxxers argue that getting vaxxed is very dangerous, and the pro-vaxxers argue that failing to get vaxxed is very dangerous.

    You have reduced the topic to a binary choice. Please refer to my comment #256 for a third choice which obviates this narrow focus.

    • Agree: Theophrastus
    • Replies: @Erebus
  264. Wild Man says:
    @Ron Unz

    On your passage:

    “(4) So to summarize, if the anti-vaxxers are correct, there’s not much America can do about its catastrophic mistake. But if the vaxxers are correct, the anti-vaxxers will soon begin to pay a terrible price for their personal folly. Either way, I think we’ll probably find out in a relatively short time.”

    I for one, have been arguing all along here, for the possibility that this vaxx-program is a slow-moving-partial-fiasco (with the harm just low enough, to eventuate this slow-moving-partial-fiasco without this causing the program being immediately kiboshed). I also explained that, given that said claim is so unusual, it should be easy to discount it, if not true, as new info and evidence comes in, …. but that the opposite has occurred ….. as new info and evidence comes in ….. my unusual hypothesis becomes more likely, instead of less likely.

    Otherwise, Mr. Unz … I agree that we should all find out, one way or the other, by mid-2022 I would think, unless some other worldly events occur before then, that act to squash any anti-official-covid-narrative-speculations, including such warranted speculations, ….. which I also was careful here, to hypothesize around ….. as a quite likely outcome …. given the current political environment ….. over May 25/20 shenanigans, November 3rd shenanigans, and January 6th shenanigans.

    Mr Unz …. in other words …. it is quite likely, that this current exercise among the vaxx-hesitant at your website here, is more than just about the damn vaxxes. It’s about ensuring that we, the general public, call a spade a spade already, around all these Covid Officialdom lies, NOW …. so as to head-off what otherwise, may well be coming down the pipeline, so as to invite in full-blown totalitarianism, which may well befall us on or before mid-2022, if there is not massive public push-back. In other words …. the time for the general public to act or react to the lies is NOW.

  265. utu says:
    @GreatSocialist

    Unvaccinated people only put themselves at risk, they don’t put others at risk. It’s their choice, but I hope they vaccinate.

    False as long as vaccine’s effectiveness is greater than 0%. Even if Pfizer effectiveness against infection dropped to around 40% since January 2021 and against hospitalization to around 75% still Pfizer vaccinated people are putting other people at much lower risk than the unvaccinated people.

    It is reasonable to assume that people who require hospitalization are carriers/producers of higher viral loads and thus much more dangerous/infectious to others. And Pfizer reduces. the number of requiring hospitalization by factor of 4 (=(1/(1-75/100)).

    Are we suppose to believe that among the asymptomatic infected vaccinated there are more walking Typhoid Marys than among the asymptomatic unvaccinated?

    Then there is the epidemiological point of view. Vaccine effectives of 40% will significantly reduce the reproduction number R0 when almost everybody is vaccinated. If in February 2020 everybody in NYC was vaccinated the number of cases would be much lower than what simple scaling by 1.66 (= 1/(1-40/100)) would suggest.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Wtf
  266. Wild Man says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    Now you calling my first response comment to your post here, as coming from a Troll. Jeez ….. we already have had a few exchanges … you know I’m not a troll.

    Given this repetitive behavior on your part (turtle-ing by ‘troll’ name-calling, amongst other name calling you have repetitively practiced as well) I also now would like to add two more questions to the list of questions you should answer for brevity-sake (as I put to you in my comment #242 above). Here goes:

    Are you a man or a woman? Approx. how old are you?

    I’m asking because you come-off as either immature or too overly emotionally-vulnerable.

  267. @Ron Unz

    (3) But on the other side, it looks like vaxxing doesn’t block Covid infections, and vaxxed people can still infect others.

    The first is still being investigated for the Delta variant; it has some immune escape mutations and definitely reduces all vaccine efficacy endpoints, from avoiding infection to avoiding “moderate to serious disease” and death, but by how much is I think still being established (there are more papers coming out and I’m running a bit behind on them, have higher priorities and plenty of 3M N95 masks). The vaxxed who get breakthrough infections can of course transmit the disease to others.

    Early also data suggests like Alpha before it, Delta is more dangerous, although “extremely dangerous to the unvaxxed” appears to me to be an overstatement. Especially while we’re still figuring out why COVID-19 doesn’t harm or harm much a lot of people including plenty of elderly with comorbidities, and strikes down a fair number who are younger including some who have few if any known comorbidities. One paper I came across says it looks like perhaps 20% of the population has a degree of immunity to all coronaviruses from a highly conserved region, although one coding for stuff that’s not on the surface of the virus. Meaning cells must get infected to then get zapped, why the spike protein is the priority target for vaccines.

    But there’s clearly more to the story than that, and it doesn’t so far equal “the unvaxxed will be devastated,” just some fraction of them, and more than with Alpha, as it was more than with classic Wuhan. It’s possible its transmissibility is high enough most unvaxxed will get it sooner or later, and after Alpha and Delta we can’t assume there won’t be one or more future even more transmissible and probably more lethal variants.

    But I think the “relatively short time” to know the outcome with Delta is already here, we’re finding out its parameters right now because in many places including my local region it’s now dominant. My region’s vaccination statistics are way below the US average, although vaccinations are skewed strongly to older people. But while we’re exceeding our previous hospitalization and ICU highs, it’s not Armageddon for the unvaxxed as a whole, just some of them. As is true for a very few vaxxed who also roll snake eyes.

  268. Raches says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    On Words in the Ether, Across Space and Time

    For those who may tell me that I am wasting my time: I am writing for the sake of the audience—not for Mr. Meyer’s personal benefit, much less any personal desire to win pointless arguments on the Internet.

    In these dog days of summer for this new thread started yesterday by Mr. Unz, I’ve counted precisely two other people so far who are your audience….

    You forget “lurkers”—readers who never comment. As Mr. Unz astutely observed here (with my added boldface):

    You should probably keep in mind that 95% of the readers of this website never leave a comment. Therefore, it probably makes much more sense to aim your remarks at that large, unseen audience than engage in back-and-forth stupid and nasty insults with a handful of other commenters.

    There are a multitude of different ideological camps represented on this website, and it seems to me that in each case a good fraction of the commenters representing that position are very actively sabotaging their own side by their bad behavior.

    I myself was a silent reader here, on and off for quite awhile before I jumped in. This is especially true in the vaccine threads, where I actually found the comments section more useful than the articles. The screen name “That Would Be Telling” served (and still serves) as a nonsense filter for me, as I quietly judge which arguments you can and cannot adequately address; only the latter are worth further investigation, for the purposes of my own decision-making rather than for online debates. You have saved me much time this way.

    You never know who will read what you publish. (See also below.)

    That Would Be Telling:

    My implicit message: “Not all unvaccinated people are stupid like this.” This obviously benefits unvaccinated people, at a time when the mainstream media is pushing the narrative that we are all ignorant morons and lunatics hell-bent on spreading the plague.

    For the participants in the last couple of discussions involving Mr. Unz the MSM narrative you dislike has so much truth it only perhaps earns the label narrative when extended to the unvaccinated of the US as a whole.

    Well, you have only elaborated on my explanation of why I am spending so much time attacking the anti-vaxxer idiots who infest these threads, when I am on the anti-vaxxer side here (at least as to the Covid vaccines). The MSM actually is “extending” exactly as you say, and it is wrong. We are not all stupid!

    I surmise that most people who don’t want the vaccines are probably normal human beings. This means that they have real lives, in the “get a life!” sense. They have limited time. They are not anti-vaxxer zealots. They are not overly inclined to jump into online debates about vaccines—especially not when those debates are, as you have observed, highly unpleasant to read, let alone to participate in.

    Seriously. Think about it. “Normal life” means that if you don’t want a shot, you just don’t get it. You do not go on the Internet and scream bloody murder about it.

    Unfortunately, most normal people are rather inert. They are not politically astute; and even if they feel nervous about the massive push to make them get vaccinated, they would prefer to stick their heads in the sand and avoid the issue. A crisis is brewing on the back of another crisis, and the general inclination is always passive: Either compliance, or escapism. This is exactly what happens with every important issue where a plurality, or (as not here) even a majority of people are passively opposed to the policies of a corrupt establishment. This is, indeed, why the world is what it is today.

    For an example that I think you will find to resonate with you, a supermajority of normal human beings probably do not want to obey pronoun edicts imposed by men who fantasize that they are women. However, most of them do not hop onto Twitter and spend hours screaming back at the Orwellian pronoun zealots. They do not do this, because they are normal human beings. Mutatis mutandis, consider that from the “hesitancy” research survey that I previously cited, it seems that a large plurality of highly intelligent people do not want these vaccines—and you will never see >99% of them actively engage in these discussions.

    This is not to say that everyone who participate in these discussions is a freak—only that you must expect for these discussions to attract many freaks with no lives, who are obsessionally fixated and possibly delusional. It is a widespread general problem on the Internet. But some of us have different motives.

    You seem pretty normal. I recall that awhile ago, before I got involved in these discussions, you indicated that you are retired; and you have long past experience on Usenet. Thus, you have adequate spare time to engage in online discussions about an important issue of public health, plus some inclination to do so—and you know from experience that I speak truly, in my sociological description of Internet discussions! It makes sense. I also guess that perhaps, you may been begged by a colleague here to come and provide a counterweight to the anti-vaxxers; but I generally avoid too much idle speculation, That Would Be Telling.

    For my part, I don’t want to disclose too much about my life. I can obviously arrange some time for these discussions, if need be. And I will say that I am admittedly a lifelong eccentric, in the sense that Nietzsche approvingly described as “an atavism”. In a society that is an intolerable wreck to anyone who is smart enough to perceive it clearly, eccentricity tends to accompany the combination of extreme intelligence plus idealism. Although I am no Ron Unz, and Ron Unz is no I, I smile at the old picture of Mr. Unz living in bare, dusty rooms and eating at Burger King, as he spends millions of dollars out of pocket working tirelessly day and night on his political ideals. I get it. I admire it, much though I disagree with some of those ideals.

    Mr. Unz is obviously motivated to participate in these discussions because The Unz Review is his baby, and he must tend to it with his usual energy. Some of his authors like to chat with readers, which is reasonable enough. Hopeful bloggers often comment in an attempt to draw traffic; some are smart, many are stupid. A few well-informed people with a passion for some subject may spend quality time here; and casual remarks come in from passers-by.

    Otherwise, you should expect for the discussion to be a wasteland of freaks, trolls, undercover influence operatives, and other trash. Especially on anti-vaxxer topics. The image that they present should not be extended to all unvaccinated people—which is, per what you said, exactly what the mainstream media is doing!

    __________

    Your inability to predict who will read your words extends in time as well as space.

    You have seen me remark frequently on Professor Oliver. I found his works after he was dead. Towards the end of his life, he expressed some despair that all of his efforts were futile. Besides the marginal group of people who admired him while he was alive, he surely could never have imagined that someday, somewhere, I, of all people, would happen across what he wrote and genuinely appreciate it (nor that I would first find The Unz Review through its print archive, while searching for one of his Modern Age articles that was missing from my virtual library). For various reasons, the circumstance was of negligible probability. And how many others will he touch the same way?

    I take this type of little experience as a lesson.

    I sometimes put fantastic effort into an Internet comment, because I believe in doing it right or not at all. I read proof, and curse every time I notice a weird error when it is too late to edit. I am aware that if my product is not of an ephemeral quality, then there is a possibility that it may somehow endure in ways that I cannot predict.

    In the present, I am very well aware that, as you said, very few visible readers in the present are my “audience”. But I am not a mass-man. I do not care about popularity; if I did, then I would be wasting my life on social media. The primary audience that I seek to reach is comprised of such persons as Mr. Unz, and others of high intelligence. Who can say where my words may lead, now or at some unknown future time? Meanwhile, as said above, I seek to demonstrate for the unseen general readership that not all unvaccinated people are stupid.

    That Would Be Telling, did you ever pause to contemplate how your comments may be viewed by a future historian, in primary source research on uncensored public discussions during the Great Vaccine Debate Débâcle of 2021? I read everything that way—now, in the present.

  269. @ko

    it’s not like he has to read them.

    Are you sure of that? I was under the impression that the authors here were required to moderate the comments that are responding to their posted articles.

  270. utu says:
    @Raches

    […] Hitler was an exquisitely nuanced thinker; and so am I.

    […] if, in the face of reasonable concerns and credible opposition, manifestly deplorable governments were to decree a policy of forced vaccination, then ipso facto, I would presume conclusively that the vaccines are much worse than I had ever suspected […]

    Not sure that I follow. Perhaps this analogy would help?

    If you lived in the early 1940’s in Germany and found out that Hitler is rounding up Jews by the “decree a policy of forced” relocation and sending them who knows where would you, as “an exquisitely nuanced thinker” conclude that Jews can’t be that bad as what government was telling you about them so far, that the reason for them being ‘relocated’ is something else, possibly it could be the mental disease of the other “exquisitely nuanced thinker” in Germany? And would you “resist—at all costs, by any means necessary” the policy of the other “exquisitely nuanced thinker” in Germany at that time?

    • Replies: @Raches
  271. The mRNA “vaccines” (they are not vaccines, they are gene-therapy experimentation) cause and spread the disease.

    This is so obvious it is becoming a truism. Every day more absolute proof raises its ugly head.

  272. @Ron Unz

    So I think I’ll try to summarize in just a few sentences why I find the whole vaxxing issue so uninteresting and not worth any of my time.

    Methinks thou doth protest too much.

    Either way, I think we’ll probably find out in a relatively short time.

    Indeed, the Northern Winter is just a hop and a skip away.

    I also suspect that’s about the time Klaus and his Merry Band of Psycopaths will spring Cyber Polygon Live on an unsuspecting world – at which point the “vaccines” will be the least of our worries.

    • Replies: @lysias
  273. @Ron Unz

    I beg to take umbrage at your implication that the mRNA shots haven’t shown serious side effects in large numbers yet, and so one most they are safe.

    Mea culpa, but some diseases, some carcinogens, some insults to the metabolism, take time to work.

    Consider cigarette smoking. I guess you could say, “Look, there are a billion people around the world who have smoked for twenty years, and they haven’t dropped dead yet.”

    And then they die an excruciating, cigarette-caused death in their 21st year.

    • Agree: TTSSYF
    • Replies: @JimDandy
    , @Skeptikal
  274. @SteveK9

    I would add Geert van den Bossche, virologist and “vaccinologist”, to your two experts. It’s not so much that any or all are correct, they may well be wrong, but their ideas should be considered and debated, not censored.

    Our “authorities” have often been wrong on Covid, partly because their backgrounds are in AIDS, a relatively non-infectious virus compared to respiratory infections (Fauci, Birx and Redfield) and partly because covering their asses was much more important to their careers than saving people’s lives (Fauci, Daszak, and almost all bat coronavirus labs funded by NIAID). I found people like Jay Bhattacharya, John Ioannidis, and Marty Makary generally more compelling in their science than our Official Narrative. It was a pleasant surprise when Redfield came out in favor of the lab leak hypothesis, saying it was just his opinion, but fit the present data best (almost heroic in today’s political climate).

    So many good researchers with solid ideas censored for “Medical Misinformation”. It is critical for science to allow forums to discuss and debate ideas (particularly those handed down from above!)

  275. bjondo [AKA "5 dancing shlomos"] says:

    Towers falling and fear give wanted wars and reduced liberties.

    Anthrax and fear give the waiting Patriot Act and reduced liberties.

    Covid 19 and fear give planned vaxxes and reduced liberties.

    The Elites New World Order of total control.

    A long time in the making. Now going at break neck speed to complete

    Tell ’em f**k 0ff and shove their vaxxes.

    An honest debate with willful liars is playing into their game and losing.

    Again, f**k off.

  276. Fauci has said that the recent surge in infections is a “pandemic of the unvaccinated,” that 99% of deaths were unvaccinated. But that’s another lie. The CDC’s own data indicated that 15% of fatalities occurred among the unvaccinated during the period in question. There’s reason to believe the actual figures are higher.

    • Thanks: Ultrafart the Brave
  277. Here’s a very important link provided by Dr. Roberts at his web site ( paulcraigroberts.org ) – thank you Dr. Roberts, for keeping us ahead of the curve.

    https://breaking-news.ca/the-new-nuremberg-trials-2021-please-share-this-info/

    To summarise, Reiner Fuellmich has finally commenced legal action against the Corona Chan cabal (the “Great Reset” Brigade might be a better description).

    This might be considered the start of the Nuremburg 2 Trials – but it’s early days yet, and a whole lot of very determined and very powerful eugenic psycopaths will do everything in their power to stop this in its tracks, while still injecting each and every one of us with bioweapons disguised as “vaccines”.

    The message here is, spread this as far and wide as you can, so that the lemmings at least have some inkling of what’s going on and what’s at stake – and maybe see some light at the end of the tunnel, if not also helping the cause wherever possible.

  278. lysias says:
    @TTSSYF

    Exercise doesn’t work to reduce weight, because it just increases appetite. As I have myself experienced.

    Same thing with eating less. The body wants to go back to its habitual weight. Which it will do by increasing appetite. As again I have experienced.

    The solution is to reduce appetite. Which I have succeeded in doing by taking megadoses of Vitamin D .

    • Replies: @TTSSYF
  279. lysias says:
    @Ultrafart the Brave

    Thou dost.

    I do. Thou dost. He/she/it doth.

    • Thanks: Ultrafart the Brave
  280. Raches says:
    @onebornfree

    The Mirage of Liberty versus the Mirage of Safety

    You don’t belong here. So please, fuck off to N.Korea, or China, or Israel, or Canada, or Australia, or N. Zealand or wherever else you belong, and take that Nazi asshole Arnold with you, while you’re at it, you long- winded,pseudo-intellectual, pontificating Nazi twerp!

    No regards, onebornfree

    One of the great things about being an authoritarian is that I know who is an authority. If Ron Unz ever were to ask me to leave, then I would depart (and curse my folly at wasting so much of my time here). Because it’s his website. However, you are not Mr. Unz. Who do you think you are, trying to censor me and order to leave? Do you perceive yourself as having the authority to infringe on my freedom of speech here? I will file this one in “LOL”.

    Now, let us please cut the comedy. This is a serious matter, as you do not seem to realize.

    Benjamin Franklin’s famous aphorism on essential liberty versus temporary safety was incomplete. He should have concluded it with the observation that given the choice as so stated, fearful masses of proletarian idiots will choose safety. Always. Every time. It is an unalterable rule of human nature. Perpend the efficacy of propaganda for new “wars on terror”, which obliterate essential liberties using gross scare-tactics: They are wars of terror, the social weaponization of terror itself.

    In the moment that the mainstream media sets the narrative that the Apocalypse cometh, unless each and every hairless, featherless biped on Earth gets vaxxed, then the masses will be screaming for forced vaccination. All of your blather about “freedom”, “human rights”, and “informed consent” will be as effective as speechifying about calm to a hurricane. If you do not know this, then you are a member of a category called “ruled”: People who don’t understand how the world really works. The ones who do are called “rulers”—either that, or unhappy observers such as myself.

    I understand human nature. Furthermore, I understand that here, the choice is not between liberty and safety: It is between the mirage of liberty, and the mirage of safety.

    As for the former, I can easily debunk your notions about “liberty”. But that is off-topic here. What is most important is that the mirage of safety is just that: A mirage, an illusion—just like the expectation that the vaccines would be a silver bullet through the heart of Covid, allowing us to promptly get back to normal.

    I can see this (and I can argue it persuasively), for the reason that I noted above:

    I am free to do so, because I don’t care about some scrap of paper called a “Constitution”, I don’t believe in “human rights”, and I laugh at “informed consent”.

    You will fail to avoid what you most fear, because your worldview is blinkered by your beliefs about “rights”, “freedom”, and “consent”. My vision is clear. I have a fighting chance here.

    Even if it turns out that the vaccines are exactly as safe and effective as Mr. Unz believes them to be—which an open question—a forced vaccination program will foreseeably result in massive needless suffering, whether from the vaccines or from social disorder, government crackdowns, and political unrest. Such a drastic course of action will bring the opposite of safety: It is a hazardous policy, liable to turn big problems into even bigger problems. From every possible angle except social media feelgoodism, it is a horrible policy. And for what? It will bring no significant benefit to those who chose to get vaccinated. Not only is it a net negative: It is almost purely negative. It is an insane policy.

    It is a policy that everyone should fear.

    I can see this, because I do not have a scrap of paper called a “Constitution” covering my eyes—and because I do not fear Covid. I perceive Covid as a risk to be managed rationally. With open eyes, I acknowledge that it may sicken me, or even kill me; but life is full of such risks, and always has been. I take prudent measures to manage the risk, such as wearing a mask in appropriate circumstances. What I fear is the mass behavior of stampeding cattle in a state of mass hysteria. That is very unsafe. I want more safety.

    • Replies: @Onebornfree
    , @onebornfree
  281. @Raches

    In these dog days of summer for this new thread started yesterday by Mr. Unz, I’ve counted precisely two other people so far who are your audience….

    You forget “lurkers”—readers who never comment.

    A very good point; I’ve almost entirely stopped reading comment sections I would never make a reply to if felt like it. And replying to a later part I snipped you are very right about “normal people,” for example in terms of local regional sob stories those are very clearly the ones getting cut down by Delta now.

    You seem pretty normal. I recall that awhile ago, before I got involved in these discussions, you indicated that you are retired; and you have long past experience on Usenet. Thus, you have adequate spare time to engage in online discussions about an important issue of public health, plus some inclination to do so.

    You sure you didn’t mean that first sentence as an insult?

    Seriously, your recollection is correct, I’m retired so I have time as I see fit to contribute to vaccine discussions here and a few other places. And my online experience goes back to the pre-Internet (TCP/IP) Arpanet and Usenet. No intervention from a colleague, a lack of money knocked me off the science track while I was an undergraduate, so my work peers like me make or made a living in systems and software.

    That Would Be Telling, did you ever pause to contemplate how your comments may be viewed by a future historian, in primary source research on uncensored public discussions during the Great Vaccine Debate Débâcle of 2021? I read everything that way—now, in the present.

    Now that would be arrogance I hope I’m not capable of. But as you say, who knows who is and will be reading my comments on this world historical event. And I do indeed hope some number of lurkers are finding my comment valuable, and am grateful for those who in topics past have thanked me for them.

    • Thanks: Johann Ricke
  282. Anon[401] • Disclaimer says:
    @res

    Dear God.. to avoid a tetanus or polio vaccine for children is madness. Better for the pediatrician to research vaccine options, the components, etc., and suggest the best available option to the parents.

    And I say this well aware that super-specialists like Didier Raoult have said that 1) one existing polio virus arised out of vaccinations 2) it is possible in a given country —where a particular disease has been eradicated— to contemplate not including said disease in the recommended vaccination schedule. But what one can envisage as correct public policy is way more difficult to stomach as a parent, with so many unknowns in the child’s future.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Alfred
    , @res
  283. Anon[401] • Disclaimer says:
    @Cloak And Dagger

    @ I agree with that statement, because there is a third perspective: can you treat/cure Covid?

    Good point, which should be part of any serious public sector medical strategy.

    Add another missing perspective : can we reduce vaccinal risk? Can we do better second-generation vaccines? What we have today is the worst of options: a vaccine with low inmunisation and extravagant side effects (Pfizer, Moderna and AZ).

    We could explore two other vaccinal options:
    1) Flu-model: inactivated virus with lower efficacy and low adverse reactions, perhaps combining several WHO variants of concern
    2) Highly inmunising vaccines, with more side effects (which is what Mr Unz thinks —wrongly— about the current crop.)

    The ideal, of course, is to have a highly immunising vaccine with no important adverse reactions. I believe that is what is being hyped about NOVAVAX.

    A government that cared about its people would use three instruments: better vaccines + treatment + cheap easy tests. Mandatory vaccination with high-risk vaccines is immoral, more so when hordes of illegal immigrants flow in during a pandemic, no less!

  284. MrE3001 says:

    The vaxxx is a pass/fail IQ test. You had a year to research the lie. If you still believe in germ theory at this point, we really don’t need you.

    • Troll: Raches
    • Replies: @MrE 3001
  285. The key question for me is, do the vaccines actually prevent the spread of the virus?

    I’m very comfortable in my decision not to take the jab based on my own odds of getting sick/dying. The real issue for me is, am I actually helping the broader community by taking it? Am I putting my family or others who are more vulnerable at risk?

    I’ve tried hard, but I can never seem to get an authoritative ‘Yes’ or ‘No’ on the crucial question of whether or not this vaccination prevents transmission of the virus. Or if there is only a reduction of transmissibility – how much of a reduction? Has this been determined? They say the new variants are more contagious, but did the vaccine ever stop transmission?

    From what I can gather, the vaccine was not even designed/approved as a transmission inhibitor. If this is correct, it makes absolutely no sense why anyone but me would care about my vax status. The entire situation seems odd. Other than a risk of hospitals being over capacity, I am at a loss for why anyone has an interest in promoting these vaccines. It seems like it should be a personal decision based on a personal risk assessment.

    • Replies: @JimDandy
  286. TTSSYF says:
    @lysias

    Most people are deficient in Vitamin D.

    • Replies: @utu
  287. Anon[401] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    @ It is reasonable to assume that people who require hospitalization are carriers/producers of higher viral loads
    @ Vaccine effectives of 40% will significantly reduce the reproduction number R0 when almost everybody is vaccinated

    Both good points. Yet as long as the vaccines produce extra vagant side effects or deaths it is inmoral to force vaccination on reluctant subjects. The correct public policy would be to Warp Speed treatment plus Warp Speed less risky vaccines.

    Also, keep in mind some virologists insist mass vaccination during a pandemic will/can pressure the virus to quickly escape the vaccine, reducing its ability to shield the frail. Why give it to the young if it will reduce Grandma’s protection?

    • Replies: @utu
  288. Skeptikal says:
    @Bernard Brandt

    Thanks for this excellent “Je refuse.”

  289. Dr. Dan Stock says our governments lie about COVID.

    • Thanks: John Wear
    • Replies: @utu
  290. The Seeker says: • Website

    I am neither for or against vaccines but, one must be highly skeptical of the Covid vaccine due to the censoring of renowned scholars and the misinformation over Covid and the early treatment espoused by the health organizations.

    The most glaring example is the totally fake Lancet article on the dangers of treating Covid patients with hydroxychloroquine (HCQ). I was surprised Mike Whitney did not ask Ron Unz about that. Namely, how could such a reputable institution allow a totally fake paper to be published in the middle of a pandemic.

    Then there is the story of Dr. Zelenko, an upstate NY doctor, who treated over 6,000 covid patients and lost only 2. Dr. Zelenko, tells the story of how he contacted the Trump WH with his results and how he was referred to the NIH and then, how his work was buried. Listen to it here;

    HCQ has been used by Dr. Zelenko, however, his amazing results, as outlined in the video, were based on treating his patients with Zinc ionophore— quercetin and epigallocatechin.

    Then there is the work of renowned litigator, Dr. Reiner Fuellmich, who has prevailed against VW and Deutsche Bank, who interviewed Dr. Zelenko leaving not doubt of the mendacity perpetrated during this pandemic.

    The irrefutable evidence that has led me to conclude that this is more a “plandemic” than a “pandemic.” Dr. Fuellmich, is suing the WHO, CDC, NIH, Germany … for Crimes Against Humanity.
    Here is the interview-

    What is very disturbing in all this are the mandates for a vaccine, that has never been vetted and the ensuing passports. Particularly, Fauci et al wanting to vax children who have a 99.997% recovery rate if untreated and have no co-morbidities.

    I became very skeptical early on when the Lancet retracted their HCQ article which got me thinking that something was rotten in Denmark. Since then Dr. Fuellmich and Dr. Zelenko, have led the pack in convincing me of that.

  291. utu says:
    @Anon

    “one existing polio virus arised out of vaccinations” – I do not think this is accurate. There were cases of ‘defective’ vaccines causing polio but they did not create new virus.

    In 1955 Ochsner assured a group of physicians at Tulane Medical School that the Salk vaccine was safe. Ochsner said he wouldn’t ask them to support something he wasn’t willing to use on his own family and that he was going to give his two grandchildren the Salk vaccine right there in front of them. Which he did. A few days later, his 30-month-old grandson was dead; and his granddaughter had polio. An attending physician to the grandson also contracted polio and was crippled.

    The Cutter Incident: How America’s First Polio Vaccine Led to a Growing Vaccine Crisis
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1383764/

    In April 1955 more than 200 000 children in five Western and mid-Western USA states received a polio vaccine in which the process of inactivating the live virus proved to be defective. Within days there were reports of paralysis and within a month the first mass vaccination programme against polio had to be abandoned. Subsequent investigations revealed that the vaccine, manufactured by the California-based family firm of Cutter Laboratories, had caused 40 000 cases of polio, leaving 200 children with varying degrees of paralysis and killing 10.

    The Vaccine Origin of the 1968 Epidemic of Type 3 Poliomyelitis in Poland (Virology 278, 42–49 (2000))
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0042682200906147

    “The epidemic started after small-scale trials with Sabin 3 and USOL-D-bac (USOL) live-attenuated vaccine strains had been completed.”

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  292. anarchyst says:

    It will take 18 months to two years for the “vaccines” to have their intended effect.
    Bill Gates admitted that vaccines would be used for “depopulation”.
    By having a delayed reaction, the vaccines will not be blamed for the massive amount of deaths that is coming.
    A “new virus variant” will be introduced into the population in order to “trigger” the “vaccines” and achieve Bill Gates goal of inducing massive ultimate deaths–depopulation.
    Since when did Bill Gates become an MD?

  293. Skeptikal says:
    @Anonymous

    It is my perception that The Saker purposefully created the open threads on covid. That is, he posted articles to the site and basically invited readers to *use them* as threads to discuss covid. Ordinarily that topic is disallowed on the main threads and is confined to the “cafe” portion of the website.

    So I think it is incorrect to speak of the threads being “dominated” by covid when The Saker posted three times about covid and invited comments. The threads were responses to The Saker’s obnoxious and pretty childish posts.

    I, too, reassessed my donation decisions to The Saker’s site. I am increduloua at his continued failure to see the covid op’s relevance to geopolitics, his supposed area of interest and expertise.

    Fine. Pfizer et al. can support The Saker, as he is such a great communicator of the vaxx hysteria that suits Big Pharma and their shareholders’ agendas!

  294. utu says:
    @Anon

    Also, keep in mind some virologists insist mass vaccination during a pandemic will/can pressure the virus to quickly escape the vaccine, reducing its ability to shield the frail.

    Anti-vaxxers red herring, me thinks.

    Those virologists must acknowledge that some diseases were successfully eradicated and/or controlled by universal vaccination programs so the burden is on them to demonstrate quantitatively the validity of their claim that in case of covid-19 it would be different. How many frail people died because of measles universal vaccination?

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @Josh Gerard
    , @Anon
  295. The entire situation seems odd.

    … to the chickens, maybe.

    Not to the foxes.

  296. dario says:

    Leaked Document Reveals ‘Shocking’ Terms of Pfizer’s International Vaccine Agreements
    The Albania agreement appears very similar to another contract, published online, between Pfizer and the Dominican Republic.
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/leaked-document-reveals-shocking-terms-pfizer-international-vaccine-agreements/5752467

    According to section 5.5 of the agreement (Pfizer-Albania):
    “Purchaser acknowledges that the Vaccine and materials related to the Vaccine, and their components and constituent materials are being rapidly developed due to the emergency circumstances of the COVID-19 pandemic and will continue to be studied after provision of the Vaccine to Purchaser under this Agreement.
    Purchaser further acknowledges that the long-term effects and efficacy of the Vaccine are not currently known and that there may be adverse effects of the Vaccine that are not currently known.”

    http://ti-health.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Albania-Pfizer.pdf

  297. @utu

    It’s of the nature of the last blockquote and link you supply, the Sabin type live attenuated vaccine can after enough serial passage through humans, which is normally a good thing to give immunity to those who don’t get the vaccine, regain its fangs and become circulating vaccine-derived poliovirus (cVDPV). The polio eradication campaign hasn’t been too successful in the last few years, and for a while there have been more cVDPV than wild type cases, although if you look at the first chart, total cases are way down from the > 50K/year not very long ago.

    • Replies: @utu
  298. utu says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    Indiana doctor’s speech spreads COVID falsehoods (August 13, 2021)
    https://apnews.com/article/business-science-health-indiana-coronavirus-pandemic-bb7744800a96b96ed37d38ab1f5e9803

    Classical case of how you can mislead people when you remain vague without addressing the quantitative side of the issue.

    • Replies: @Carlton Meyer
  299. @Ron Unz

    Ron,

    Appreciate your elucidating your perspective. It seems to me you have a peculiarly all-or-nothing view of this issue. If you view the possibilities as a continuum, often the truth is somewhere in the middle. (If you view them as discrete alternatives, there may be a third approach beside “vax everyone” and “do nothing”, as another commenter pointed out regarding other preventives and treatments.)

    And if the truth does turn out to be in the middle, then the following advice might well be on point: “If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_holes

  300. JimDandy says:
    @Hans

    The people setting Covid policies are the same ones who planned out the withdrawal from Afghanistan.

    Aside from being true, that’s got a snappy, lowest-common-denominator meme-ready ring to it. How do we make it go viral?

    • Replies: @Negrolphin Pool
  301. @That Would Be Telling

    I have a question for you. Is it more than just speculation and assumption that “in many places including my local region [Delta is] now dominant”? I saw a video (don’t pigeonhole me, I generally consume written material) where a guy was calling around to testing centers asking whether their tests would discriminate between different strains or variants, and they all said no. I’m guessing that the answer is that some other party might go out and collect a subsample and analyze it, but I’ve not heard that that is the case.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  302. Erebus says:
    @Cloak And Dagger

    You have reduced the topic to a binary choice.

    Yup, by simply ignoring the most obvious option (and several millennia of medical practice), public debate is reduced to a simple, poorly informed Either/Or.

    I run into this binary argument almost daily from people who’re oblivious to the fact that they’ve allowed vested interests to ring-fence public health policy, public debate, medical guidelines and practices as well as their own thinking, and to herd the whole lot through a pair of roughly equally unattractive gates.

    Some are starting to notice something’s amiss now that those interests have begun forcing one of those gates closed, but remain as oblivious to the closing’s socio-political implications as they were to the original ring-fencing.

    I guess people will simply believe whatever comforts them most immediately. For most people, it’s infinitely more comforting to believe that the shepherd and the fences are there to keep the wolves out. The discontinuities arising from a realization that they’re there to keep them in are deeply discomforting and to be avoided at all cost.

    Up to about a month ago, I was in awe of the ease with which this has been pulled off. Unless one dug beneath the surface, it all looked like it happened of its own accord. Now that the flock has noticed the holes in the fence and watched a few of their fellows turned into lamb chops, they’re getting restless.

    The shepherds have also noticed, so they’ve dusted off the largely dormant Patriot Act (remember that?) and have tidied up some loose ends so as to enable classifying vast swaths of America’s body politic as “terrorists”.

    One of the Biden Administration’s first acts was to assess the threat of “domestic terror” which was published in June 2021 as “National Strategy for Countering Domestic Terrorism”, from which the above graphic is derived.

    To be sure, they’re not yet so classified, but DHS has set the legal framework in place to do it at any moment they feel appropriate. With that classification, if/when it comes, that portion of America that stands its ground on the wrong side of the contrived Either/Or can lose their suddenly quite alienable rights and effectively become non-persons under the law.

    Binary thinking can be dangerous.

    • Agree: John Wear, Wild Man
    • Thanks: Cloak And Dagger
  303. Okay, so out of the blue there suddenly appears “a very erudite moderate antivaxxer calling himself Raches,” who coincidentally praises Ron Unz to the Moon, and Ron is maintaining cordial relations and taking advice from this anonymous internet fellow, who also just so happens to write exactly like you would expect from an AI designed and corrected by Ron Unz?

    Very important software work, indeed.

    • Replies: @Random Anonymous
    , @Raches
  304. @utu

    So the big corporate media giant AP that takes millions of dollars each year from Big Pharma ads forms a “fact check” team to stomp out misinformation. Follow the links to learn the background of the two experts assigned to smear this medical doctor:

    TERRENCE FRASER is a fact check reporter based in New York City. He has worked for VICE Media, The Marshall Project and ProPublica. At VICE, he reported on protests, housing and the environment, and conducted research for the documentary team. Terrence received a B.A. in Politics and African American Studies from Princeton University. He earned his M.A. in Engagement Journalism from the Craig Newmark Graduate School of Journalism at CUNY.

    ALI SWENSON is a fact check reporter based in Seattle. She has worked as a reporter and editor for the Phoenix New Times and Los Angeles Times, and as a podcast producer for the Center for Public Integrity and other freelance clients. Swenson previously covered breaking news for the AP in New York City, where she investigated accusations against the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. She holds a bachelor’s degree in psychology from Loyola Marymount University and a master’s degree in journalism from Columbia University.

    • Replies: @utu
  305. Erebus says:
    @utu

    … some diseases were successfully eradicated and/or controlled by universal vaccination programs so the burden is on them to demonstrate quantitatively the validity of their claim that in case of covid-19 it would be different.

    You’re right utu, but only if you agree that Covid is no “pandemic”.

    Or, more accurately, no more a pandemic than (say) measles was.

    As per your SOP throughout these discussions, you’ve misrepresented your interlocutor’s position and flattened the resulting strawman. Man oh man, but you’re boring.

    • Agree: Skeptikal, Wild Man, kali
  306. @Random Anonymous

    Is it more than just speculation and assumption that “in many places including my local region [Delta is] now dominant”?

    Virus subtype testing is a standard thing, starts with whole genome sequencing which can then reveal where variants have changed and allow the sort of testing likely done at those test centers you mentioned, plus one of the best surveillance techniques has been using the same technique on raw sewage.

    How much subtyping of individual human samples is done and under what sorts of policies, like “send us every 10th sample” will depend on public health priorities and budgets, see the U.K. for the extreme nation level outlier in tracking variants.

  307. God Bless you Mr. Unz. I don’t agree with some of the viewpoints on this website but I am grateful that you allow differences of opinion to be expressed so your readers can make up their own minds.

    I’m vaccinated but I don’t see it as being appropriate for everyone. Nor do I understand why Ireland can conclude that the “science” of masks, schools, and children is so different than California’s conclusion. In America the mask argument has become somewhat theistic.

    Thanks again for your work and this interesting website.

    Mike

  308. Ron Unz says:
    @Raches

    You have seen me remark frequently on Professor Oliver. I found his works after he was dead….I would first find The Unz Review through its print archive, while searching for one of his Modern Age articles that was missing from my virtual library

    An ironic consequence of my content-archiving project, which absorbed almost a full decade of my effort from about 2001-2010, and ultimately generated about 0.1% of the readership I’d originally been seeking.

    Incidentally, I noticed that your lengthy comments actually used some of my “deep linking” technology, e.g. “#p_3_5.” It must have taken me at least three weeks of hard work to fully build and test that system a few years ago, and I think it’s virtually unique on the Internet. But almost no one else ever uses it…

  309. JimDandy says:
    @obwandiyag

    That’s a nice way of articulating one of the reasons to be hesitant to take this vaccine. Ron said that the Delta version has been proven to be “extremely dangerous” for everyone over 50. Do you happen to know where this claim stems from?

    • Replies: @Bugey libre
  310. JimDandy says:
    @Anonymously

    It’s a great question. To his credit (ugh, that was hard to say) I remember Fauci saying that the early vaccines wouldn’t necessarily prevent infection or infection. Near as I can tell, the “vaccine” is a treatment/pre-treatment. I hear a lot of people say it reduces the symptoms, and I suspect it’s probably true. Hell, a vaccinated guy even died of Covid recently and it was said that it would have been worse if he hadn’t gotten the jab. The shot prevents a fate worse than death. That’s impressive.

    But, yes, does the shot reduce transmission? Oh, one more question: does the shot increase transmission? Thx.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  311. Tony Hall says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron Unz writes,

    So aren’t any potentially ill-effects already just water under the bridge?

    Water under the bridge? How glibly dismissive, especially when the author refers to “potential” ills that he surmises haven’t even happened yet? The suffering of the vaccine injured and the anguish felt by relatives of the vaccine dead is being widely experienced right now. The proper call is to invoke the precautionary principle; to insist on the shutdown of this huge medical experiment on human subjects that has gone so horribly wrong. Great harm is being done by the medical establishment as well as by governments and their PR agencies in the mainstream media.

    For RU to refer to present and future jab deaths as well as jab injuries as “water under the bridge” is maybe even more illogical than it is insensitive. Millions in North America, Europe and Israel are now experiencing life-altering injuries.

    What is it about this topic, Ron Unz, that causes you so much unease, discomposure, and confusion?

  312. Dumbo says:
    @Bugey libre

    Politicians/Governments like vaccines, because they like to treat people like cattle. In fact, “Vaccine” comes from Latin for “cow”. This is the type of “solution” they like. Letting people decide about their own health is “dangerous”. So Big Pharma wants money, government wants control, a match made in Hell that explains the relentless push for these new vaccines which they want to become a permanent fixture, and not just for Covid, but for anything.

    Their dream, especially of the current crop of “Western leaders”, is a docile population injected every day with a different concoction, changing people’s behaviour in many different ways, and in the end making them to silently walk by themselves to the slaughterhouse when not needed anymore — they will call this “euthanasia” or “dying with dignity”. Do cows die with dignity, I wonder?

    • Agree: Ann Nonny Mouse
    • Thanks: onebornfree
  313. utu says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    I shouldn’t have given you the link that gave you opportunity to go off tangent rather than concentrate on what is false in what Dr. Stock said. You should be able to figure it out on your own and if you can’t tell us which of Dr. Stock’s claims is true.

  314. utu says:
    @TTSSYF

    “Most people are deficient in Vitamin D.” – That’s what your Big Diet Supplements Pharma wants you to think.

    Vitamin D deficiency 2.0: an update on the current status worldwide
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41430-020-0558-y

    5.9% (US) – severe vitamin D deficiency (levels < 30 nmol/L)
    24% (US) – levels <50 nmol/L

    'cutoff level of 50 nmol/L is recommended by the Institute of Medicine (IOM, USA) in their “Dietary Reference Intakes”'

    "Having a long half-life in the tissues, vitamin D accumulation due to excessive intake lasts up to 18 months, and may cause chronic toxic effects such as nephrocalcinosis following hypercalcemia and hypercalciuria ."

    "there was an increased incidence of hypercalcemia due to massive intakes of vitamin D from various food fortifications."

    • Replies: @Dumbo
    , @lysias
    , @mike99588
  315. utu says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    It’s “a good think” and so on but something was wrong with the attenuated virus in that vaccine as it resulted in 464 cases of polio.

    https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/82060419.pdf
    This observation highlights the fact that a small vaccine trial was the origin of such an extensive poliomyelitis outbreak during which 464 persons became paralysed and, as- suming a minimal infection/disease ratio of 200:1 typical of virulent wild poliovirus strains (20), at least 90,000 people were infected.

    Type 3 viruses were, however, isolated dur- ing this period from both groups of individuals and there- fore, it is reasonable to assume that mutations acquired during replication in vaccinees or their contacts contributed to the reversion of the USOL vaccine strain to wild-type characteristics that prompted the widespread circulation of the virulent strain(s).

  316. @Wayne Lusvardi

    Why are you against cheap and highly effective HCQ and ivermectin, both among the safest meds going around? And for hideously expensive monoclonal antibodies? Do you own BigPharma stock?

    • Agree: Ann Nonny Mouse, Sarah
  317. @Feuerbach

    That argument applies to ‘vaccines’ that target the spike-protein only. What of attenuated virus vaccines, that induce an immune reaction to all parts of the virus?

    • Replies: @Jefferson Temple
  318. @Anon

    I’d prefer an attenuated vaccine too, but the Medical Mafiosi here in Austfailia, all well in the pocket of Big Pharma, refuse to anoint any such. They also actively oppose and suppress the use of HCQ and ivermectin, and recommend UTTERLY useless remdesivir, hugely expensive of course. We are run by Evil nincompoops, corrupt to their marrow.

  319. @Raches

    Monsieur Raches,

    That makes sense!

    A moment of ‘tenderness’, like many others we are witnessing now in France…
    No Big Pharma will ever touch my children or myself!

    Take care,stay strong, have a good day or a good night.

    Respect

  320. @Hans

    No honest review of the evidence will lead to a different conclusion. The RT-PCR tests have finally been invalidated (but not until Dec so they can still be used for narrative building). All of Big Pharma’s flimsy safety data is predicated on those tests.

    They could be picked apart for days, but that is just one big one that uncorrupted institutions should be screaming about.

    • Agree: Carlton Meyer
  321. @Ron Unz

    Ron, I think a lot of us dissidents want people digging into things themselves.

  322. @Ron Unz

    Mr Unz,

    You are living in an ivory tower from where it is tempting to be slightly condescending but in this very place, you are doing a very good job in the task you assigned yourself.

    Merci

  323. For those of you who believe that the Covid mRNA vaccines are effective and safe, I urge you to watch the video dated 18 August 21 by Mike Yeadon https://alethonews.com/2021/08/16/former-pfizer-vp-latest-message-on-covid-vaccines/ . Mike is a virologist and is ex Chief Scientific Officer at Pfizer. He has been vilified and smeared by the Establishment and MSM for the past 18 months over his very public condemnation of the MRNA based vaccines

  324. @CondZero

    I guess it’s what you read and understand and make your own informed choices that passes for being anti-vax or that a vax with over 12000 deaths (presumably undercounted in VAERS) can even still be mandated when they pulled the plug on the Swine Flu vaccine with only 26 deaths. I guess we’ve reached peak lunacy.

    That is the definitive answer to the question posed by the title of this piece.

    The population is being bribed and coerced and cajoled and propagandised into accepting a medical intervention (NOT a vaccine in the accepted sense of that word) which has not been adequately tested, is produced by companies such as Pfizer and J&J which have long records of extreme criminality and indifference to public health, and debate about which, even from established experts in the field, is being egregiously censored and ‘fact-checked’ by shady bodies funded in part by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. The same Bill Gates who has been agitating for population reduction, is responsible for outrageous vaccine scandals in the Third World, and is the son of an avowed eugenicist. I could go on, but the prima facie evidence against taking the jab is overwhelming for anyone with half a brain. This is an intelligence test of the most basic and Darwinian kind.

    Perhaps the reason so many people are blindly going ahead is that they simply cannot get their heads around the fact that their ‘government’ hates them and wants them dead. To face that fact is so appalling that they react at a limbic level to anyone who moots it to them, whether directly or not. Moreover, such has been the propaganda that most ordinary, decent people now have a huge sunk cost of fear and compliance and it is impossible for them to admit that they have been had: hence they take the jab, throwing good money after bad, as it were, except that the good money is now their health and well-being: thanks to antibody dependent enhancement, a large proportion, perhaps even all, of those who have been jabbed will be dead within three years, while many of the survivors will be sterile. Oddly enough, that will result in the sort of population reduction advocated by Mr Gates and his little friends at Davos and the UN.

  325. I’m a vaxx-avoider. Does that make me an anti-vaxxer? Others can get vaxxed if they like, so no.

    But wait.

    Why is ALL discussion and MSM news on the subject, all about the vaxx, none, none, none about medical treatments? Worse, none, none, none, none about prophylactics? Only vaxx, vaxx, vaxx, vaxx!!!

    Okay, so I’m an anti-vaxxer. So, what is the best way?

    Let’s ALL get Covid-infected! We throw it off. A microscopic proportion of us don’t. Of the latter, a tiny proportion of us die of it. But that number of us would have died soon anyway.

    The rest have no need to be vaccinated, so are in no danger of dying from the vaccine.

    Instead of lockdowns, instead of vaxxx, let’s get Covid!

  326. Raches says:
    @Ron Unz

    I am probably as gratified that you noticed my use of what I’ve been calling “pinpoint links”, as you are that I figured out how to use them. I so call them as the hypertextual equivalent of “pinpoint citations” used in some fields of scholarship and of the professions. I think that I’ve seen paragraph-level hypertext anchors elsewhere, but I don’t immediately recall where—probably not on a website intended for popular consumption. It is a lonely world.

    Those who are derided as “smaaaaht” could write a ten thousand word article on whats, hows, and whys; but nobody would understand, except for those who are sufficiently astute to notice without the explanation.

    My downthread followup to that linked comment sketches a few of my inferences about how you run this site. By the way, I have noticed that Mr. Cole has been spitting at your bioweapon theory, just as he does with your breaking of the historical blackout. Hmmmm. Interesting—albeit perhaps not so much as what, insofar as I can tell at a skim, seems to be a Lord Voldemort blackout on the disinformational Wikipravda Encyclopedia, which debunks so very much misinformation and “misinformation”. (I will now segue into a very long comment on the finer distinctions between misinformation and disinformation—with references to my favorite Professor, but of course!)

    I have something else to say in reply to you here. But it needs more words; and after what I just published [linked resource in moderation/not yet live], which is very boring because it has many words, it lacks videos, and it’s not on a vaccine topic, I am more or less out of words for now. Thus merely this brief note for the moment, by way of thanks for yours.

    • Replies: @Boomthorkell
  327. Raches says:
    @utu

    Not sure that I follow. Perhaps this analogy would help?

    If you lived in the early 1940’s in Germany and found out that Hitler is rounding up Jews by the “decree a policy of forced” relocation and sending them who knows where would you, as “an exquisitely nuanced thinker” conclude that Jews can’t be that bad as what government was telling you about them so far, that the reason for them being ‘relocated’ is something else, possibly it could be the mental disease of the other “exquisitely nuanced thinker” in Germany? And would you “resist—at all costs, by any means necessary” the policy of the other “exquisitely nuanced thinker” in Germany at that time?

    You seem to have missed this part of my comment:

    As I told Corvinus in the prior thread, trust and credibility must be earned, not demanded….

    In my opinion, a wise and benevolent dictatorship is the best form of government ever invented. Contrary to popular myths, any authoritarian government that achieves political stability must first earn the trust of its people; rule by brute force tends to instability. My love of authoritarianism and my demand for trustworthy institutions are not only noncontradictory, but congruent.

    I began to elaborate on this earlier, but it became half of another essay. I will need to circle back here later.

  328. Raches says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Irrelevant Nichtsein, when I told you that AI can produce original creative work from randomness using evolutionary algorithms, I did not intend thus to dox myself! Now that you have evolved to the point that you have outsmarted Mr. Unz’s/my evil “Plan Raches”, you may even rise to the level of understanding Darwin.

    Regardless, I am glad to see you here: This crackpot quarantine zone is the proper thread for you! Now, you can help to educate That Would Be Telling on the fact that “viruses do not ‘evolve’”, so “they cannot get more lethal. What you are afraid of is something that has never happened in all of known history.”

    I would take a shot at helping poor TWBT to relieve his worries about that, or maybe just a little jab at him; but my AI needs to be taken offline for adjustments to its adversarial network before it can continue here. TWBT has no such problems, because he gets his comments from space aliens via UUCP.

    (Sorry, TWBT. Please don’t stab me. P.S., I will have some replies for you sometime later.)

  329. Onebornfree says: • Website
    @Raches

    “Who do you think you are, trying to censor me and order to leave? Do you perceive yourself as having the authority to infringe on my freedom of speech here? I will file this one in “LOL”.”

    How the fuck you interpret my comment as an attempt to censor you and order you to leave this site, I’ll never know , and really don’t care. I meant leave the US, you freedom hating, “benevolent dictatorship” loving, Hitler worshiping, perpetually blathering fool!

    No regards, onebornfree

    • LOL: Raches
    • Replies: @Raches
  330. Onebornfree says: • Website
    @Wild Man

    “Yes …. I don’t think Mr. Unz has any kind of track record that would allow one to draw the rational conclusion that he possesses superior signal detection cognitive apparatus as informing his overall intuition, in real-time. Clearly, by his own past statements, he does not”

    What do you expect? Mr Unz has frequently stated ( with a straight face, mind you), that he relies heavily on such “trusted” (state propaganda) sources as the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal! 😂

    Regards, onebornfree

  331. R.C. says:

    There’s really nothing to debate. That’s a personal body sovereignty decision – just like the determination to ingest tobacco, pot, heroin, drink coffee, or hell, snort drano! (Just don’t make me pay for your treatment for your stupidity!)
    R.C.

  332. Yevardian says:
    @Ron Unz

    If it means anything, I use this feature quite regularly, mostly for reading pre-WWII American journals and sociological literature, after being introduced to authors like E.R Dodds and Lothrop Stoddard from this website.
    I simply don’t bother referencing it here, since I highly doubt most of the raving lunatics or the dullard rightists on the comment sections of this website would ever bother reading anything I posted.
    I haven’t checked if there’s any academic referencing or credit-giving policy from the archive here, but as the same site’s frontpage greets any visitor with a bunch anti-vaxx and holocaust denial articles, how many are going to admit using it publicly, or recommend it anyone but very close friends?

    I remember a few years ago using and crediting your unpublished ‘The Spartan Naval Empire’ at university, that was quite careless in retrospect. Although unlikely, if any staff had bothered to check for ‘Ron Unz’, since (for professional antiquarians) it was such an utterly obscure reference, it could have had some unpleasant repurcussions. But who knows, perhaps it was checked and unremarked upon, Antiquity is afterall, still recommended as one of the last safe refuges from the ‘social justice’ train in the humanities.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Raches
  333. kali says:
    @Alfred

    Hi Alfred,

    I couldn´t agree more! The ever growing list of substances the “medical profession”, under financial and other inducement, injects into the bloodstream of infants and children is NOT for the health benefit of the children, but for the profit of ´Big Pharma´. (Why else inject cervical cancer vaccines into young boys??!)

    This alone is a worthwhile and important discussion to undertake, no matter how embarrassing Ron Unz may find it.

    But it is an entirely separate topic from the covid1984-genetic-modification-plus-vaxx-pass-plus-totalitarian-technocratic-corporate-control-agenda currently hurtling down the tracks toward a bamboozled and frightened public (though I´m sure I don´t have to tell you that).

    It is to his great shame that Mr Unz neither knows nor cares to know anything about either debate.

    Is The Unz Review a “bate and switch” operation, or is Mr Unz himself as frightened by unfolding events as so many masses of people? Will he, like far too many others, be baying for the blood of the “unvaxxed” before winter hits?

    Fond regards, A,
    Kali.

  334. salience says:
    @Greta Handel

    “the drugstore is minutes away”
    I would advise “moving to the outskirts of town”. Less risk of a momentary lapse of your open mind leading to a big mistake.

  335. Dumbo says:
    @utu

    LOL. Yes, a terrible danger, overdose of vitamin D! LOL LOROLOL!

    Sure, the hordes of XXXL obese Americans who live on a diet of burgers, cola, fries and Cheetos, and are as sedentary as a rock, are in danger of vitamin overdose…

    The things we need to hear from pro-vaxxers…

  336. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Ultrafart the Brave

    “In truth, the “vaccines” are being employed as a means to an end, one component in a larger operation to remove all our freedoms and grind us down into the dirt where people like Bill Gates and Klaus Schwab want us to remain, forever.”

    Yes, I agree. However I was already well aware of the big picture/ long term goal ( aka Agendas 2030 and 2050), and have been for at least 18 months.

    I focussed specifically on the mandatory (fake) vaccine issue in this thread because of its title:

    “The Covid Debate: to Vaxx or Not to Vaxx”

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Thanks: Ultrafart the Brave
  337. @Raches

    It takes this megalomanic windbag 1,300 words to skirt the distinction I’ve drawn.

    And he’s the inspiration for Mr. Unz’s new playpen for “anti-vaxx crackpots.”

  338. Dumbo says:
    @Tony Hall

    What is it about this topic, Ron Unz, that causes you so much unease, discomposure, and confusion?

    I think Mr. Unz is too invested in his “bioweapon against Iran and China” theory, and so is not happy with the idea that, in the longterm, the vaccines might be a bigger problem than a “bioweapon”.

  339. Dumbo says:
    @Raches

    Well, to be fair, viruses are not alive, they have no agency, and are dependent on our own cells to reproduce and “mutate”. Therefore, it is our own cells which, for unknown purposes, generate mutations while replicating the viruses. However most of those mutations are deleterious (for the virus), so the chance of having a more deadly AND more transmissible virus is really rare.

    As a separate question, why can’t mRNA pro-vaxxers just take their multiple “jabs” and leave everyone else who doesn’t want them alone?

    • Agree: John Wear
    • Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen
  340. @Raches

    “What I fear is the mass behavior of stampeding cattle in a state of mass hysteria. That is very unsafe. I want more safety.”

    And you are stupid/gullible enough to believe that some sort of imagined, Hitlerian, “benevolent dictator” ( your words, or close to), is going to make/keep you safer, right? 😂😂😂

    “The kind of man who wants the government to adopt and enforce his ideas is always the kind of man whose ideas are idiotic” H.L.Mencken

    “He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security.” Benjamin Franklin

    “Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty.” Thomas Jefferson

    “Fear has no brains; it is an idiot.”
    Ambrose Bierce

    “Regards” onebornfree

    • Agree: Morton's toes, Wild Man
  341. To gamble with a poison vaccine is suicidal and insane. It was only the vaccinated that died during the “Spanish Flu” hoax of the WW1 era, there was no “Spanish Flu”. Same with the Swine flu hoax of the 1970’s. It is the same playbook played over and over by the depopulation and eugenics crowd.

    • Agree: onebornfree, John Wear
  342. Emslander says:

    Unz has articles that question fifteen hundred years of well-documented and sourced European history, the moon landing and the strangeness of the oldest religion on earth. Yet, people who don’t think being forced to take an RNA-altering medicine to be safe are crackpots.

    Crackpot, save thyself!

  343. Realist says:

    This is not an anti-vaxx webzine, and I was concerned that it might become perceived as such.

    But it sure as hell is an anti-Jew webzine which is goddamn weird coming from a Jew.

    • Replies: @True Aim
  344. Realist says:
    @Vergissmeinnicht

    I got myself vaxxed (for COVID). My reason? I’m obese.

    How about a diet???

  345. Realist says:
    @The Dude from Van Isle

    So why on earth wouldn’t you try to lose weight, adopt a healthier lifestyle, any number of more proactive and effective options than injection oneself with experimental poison?

    Because he is a lazy, loser.

  346. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Greta Handel

    “megalomanic windbag”.

    Hah! I like that. Perfect! 😂

    Regards, onebornfree

  347. @Tony Hall

    So aren’t any potentially ill-effects already just water under the bridge?

    Of course not because millions more get jabbed everyday, and now another round of boosters are being jabbed into the unhealthy. Each jab leaves more residue in the bloodstream that can can cause clotting. This is why the FDA panel of outside experts have yet to approve booster jabs for the healthy, and many are getting COVID as their antibody booster shot wears off. The experts are watching the death rates to see how many fall in the water under the bridge. Is it safe to give the healthy 40 jabs over the next 20 years, with each adding more clotting residue in the bloodstream? There are also concerns about tweaking the immune system.

    Data shows this clotting has already killed thousands of Americans via strokes and heart attacks, but thousands more are not counted since this may occur weeks or months later and it is rarely blamed on the “vaccines”. This is not many deaths considered the millions jabbed, but we will not know the true dangers for a year or more when these mass clinical trials provide data. Maybe this is a non-issue, or maybe millions will die. No one knows, and one must doubt the motives of anyone who claims they can see into the future and tell us the jabs are safe. This is why THE FDA HAS NOT APPROVED THESE JABS as safe, and is reluctant to approve booster jabs for the healthy.

    Most experts are terrified to speak of this, but several semi-retired experts have openly expressed their worries. For some reason Youtube allows this expert to warn of vaccine dangers. In February, 2021, Professor Sucharit Bhakdi, M.D. and a number of his colleagues warned the European Medicines Agency about the potential danger of blood clots and cerebral vein thrombosis in millions of people receiving experimental gene-based injections.

    Since then, two of the four injections have been suspended or recalled in Europe and the United States for just that reason. In this episode of Perspectives, Professor Bhakdi explains the science behind the problem, why it is not just limited to the products already suspended, and why in the long term we may be creating dangerously overactive immune systems in billions of unwitting subjects.

  348. @Dumbo

    That’s been my hunch, too.

    Along with the fact that he’s stuck. From your other comment:

    “As a separate question, why can’t mRNA pro-vaxxers just take their multiple “jabs” and leave everyone else who doesn’t want them alone?”

    Because with rare exception taking that step seems not only to shut down critical thinking, but induces impatience and even hostility for those still not ready to use one of the Pfizer, etc., products. Hence, the broadbrushing derision of “anti-vaxx crackpots.”

  349. Skeptikal says:
    @JimDandy

    I agree.

    The whole argument for mass vaxx falls apart if the vaxxed can transmit the virus.
    If they have the same viral load as the unjabbed (cf. Provincetown stats), then only a details track and trace operation can determine who’s zoomin’ who.

    I am not aware that just an operation has been put in place to establish whether the jabbed can spread the virus.

    But I have no reason to doubt, from what have read about Israel, Gibralter, et al., that the jabbed can transmit to both jabbed and unjabbed.

    So what is, really, the point?

    I see none at all, other than the Monopoly-based profit motive and, further, the ID2020 motive.

    • Agree: JimDandy
    • Replies: @JimDandy
    , @aj54
  350. It’s your website and your rules.
    But why do you have to frame all those who are critical of the Covid narrative, the restrictions and indeed these vaccines/gene therapies as anti-vaxxers?
    Very few of us are.
    Our legitimate concerns are with the necessity, safety and efficiency of these novel products, AND with the coercion and discrimination that takes place and will take place in conjunction with and is rooted in them.

    • Agree: John Wear
  351. https://www.biznews.com/health/2021/06/28/covid-19-vaccine-immunity
    https://www.biznews.com/health/2021/08/16/pre-existing-immunity
    These are two brilliant articles by Marc Girardot, PANDA member, on natural immunity, its superiority and what policies this should result in.
    Certainly not in vaccinating those who have it.

  352. “There’s really nothing to debate. That’s a personal body sovereignty decision ”

    Well it should be, at least in the US ( not sure about other countries) .

    For example :

    “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”
    US Bill of Rights, 9th Amendment

    But unfortunately, in the US now, as elsewhere, many “windbags”, pontificating blowhards and associated halfwits and slaves don’t believe that that is, or should be, the case, and are dedicated to enforcing their preferences on you,and on myself and others who (for whatever reason), choose differently.

    And it’s not just about “forced vaccinations- yes or no”, either.

    We’ve already had to deal with entirely anti-freedom, entirely unconstitutional mask and lockdown mandates, both of which “the usual suspects”, here and elsewhere,have never seriously questioned, let alone outright opposed on principle.

    That’s how bad it is these days, in “the land of the free”.

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Agree: Wild Man
  353. All right, I’m going to have to play the part of Graham Chapman, in the role of the British Army Major, and say: “This skit is getting silly.”

    Y’all are presently engaged in a back-and-forth of ‘I’m right/you’re wrong”. Who knows: you all might be equally right–or equally wrong. This falls into the category of Douglas Adams’ “True, but unhelpful”.

    Try dialing it back, work on common elements, and proceed from first principles. Like this:

    –Whether the virus came from a bat, or a pangolin, or the Wuhan Institute of Virology, or Ft. Detrick biolabs, the most likely scenario is that the virus was either ‘improved’ by gain-of-function studies, or weaponized, or both. The evidence, at present, is that at least part of the virus’s virulence is the spike protein, which pierces vascular, blood, and other cells, ruptures those cells, and causes a cascade of serious problems as a result;

    –At present, all of the vaccines approved for use in the U.S. use mRNA to replicate and produce billions of spike proteins. There is uncertainty as to whether those spike proteins stay in the injection site, or circulate throughout the body. There is also uncertainty as to whether those spike proteins, which are mutated to be ‘harmless’, will remain harmless once they are injected;

    “Clearly”, as Vezzini from The Princess Bride would say, “I cannot choose the cup in front of me.”

    –On the other hand, the existence of what we know as ‘long Covid’ suggests that Covid-19 may be a progressive disease. We already have the example of HIV/AIDS, in which a virus can mutate to the point that vaccines against it are ineffective, and whatever antibodies are produced against the virus are ineffective, because the virus directly attacks several essential WBCs in the immune system. It took years before HIV infection had developed into AIDS. A similar process may be at work here with the present virus. It just hasn’t been long enough yet for us to tell whether the same is true for the present virus.

    –We already know that RBCs, WBCs, and platelets have the ACE-2 reception site, which is vulnerable to the spike protein of the virus (and possibly, the vaccines as well). There has also been a study (since retracted, unfortunately) which had indicated that T leukocytes CAN be so infected. The study had been retracted because ‘line cells’ were used in the experiment, rather than ‘free-range’ leukocytes. So far, I have found no follow up study on this. Odd, that.

    “So just as clearly,” sez Vezzini, “I cannot choose the cup in front of you.”

    –What we DO know about the disease, however, is that the young, the healthy, and the non-obese are relatively unaffected by it. So far. It is the elderly, those with ‘contributing factors’, and the fat that are disproportionately affected by the disease.

    –There are also indications that those deficient in vitamin D and zinc (who disproportionately are also the old, the sick, and the obese) are also disproportionately affected by the disease.

    –There is also a fair body of scientific and medical literature showing that coronaviruses like the present virus can not replicate where there is sufficient intra-cellular zinc in the system. And further, that there are a number of zinc ionophores (such as HCQ, AZT, Ivermectin, Resvertrol, and a synergistic combination of Vitamin C and Quercetin) which help increase zinc uptake in cells.

    –Finally, there is the prior example of HIV/AIDS: ultimately, the disease was not stopped by vaccines, since (like the present virus) it mutates too fast for a single vaccine to be effective against all of the mutations it provides. The disease was only controlled by a drug cocktail (which, by the way, included AZT above) which prevented replication of the virus.

    I don’t plan on arguing with any of you on the above. I don’t argue with facts, and these are the best facts I’ve been able to find. On the basis of these facts, though, I would suggest the following:

    1. Get good diet, exercise, and lifestyle, and as near to your ideal BMI as possible.

    2. Daily supplements of RDAs (or perhaps a LITTLE above) for Zinc, Vitamins C & D, and Quercetin. (Big Pharma, and its regulatory captured FDA and CDC, seem to have made drug zinc ionophores unavailable)

    3. Get vaccines only if you are 60+, are obese, or have the co-morbidities which come from obesity. The J&J vax, because it makes use only of the B unit of the spike protein, and not the full pre-fusion prong, would appear to have the least amount of shite on that particular choice of sandwiches. So far.

    And, for all of you Vezzinis out there, with your ‘dizzying intellects’, I would suggest that you spend less time pondering over which cup you are going to drink, and a bit more time trying to develop an immunity from the iococain powder which is in both cups.

    Or at least, an immunity from the virus.

  354. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00592-020-01522-8
    If anyone could legitimately be discriminated against, it’s the obese.
    They are the biggest spreaders.
    I am opposed to their discrimination.
    As to that of anyone else.

    “Essentially obese people spread respiratory viruses more than healthier people

    Why are obese patients potentially more contagious than lean subjects?

    Three factors make obese subjects more contagious than leans: First, obese subjects with influenza shed the virus for a longer period of time (up to 104% longer) than lean subjects, potentially increasing the chance to spread the virus to others [22]. Secondly, the obese microenvironment favors the emergence of novel more virulent virus strains. This is due mainly to the reduced and delayed capacity to produce interferons by obese individuals and animals [17, 18]. The delay in producing interferon to contrast viral replication allows more viral RNA replication increasing the chances of the appearance of novel, more virulent viral strains [18]. Thirdly, body mass index correlates positively with infectious virus in exhaled breath [23]. This finding was especially significant for males, which leads to the hypothesis that the higher ventilation volumes or a differential chest conformation might explain this fact

    Some people advocate for vaccine passports because they assert that experimental vaccines reduce transmission. The science suggests it doesn’t stop or doesn’t materially stop transmission. But let’s assume for the sake of argument that experimental vaccination reduces transmission. Then presumably you would also advocate that people who are overweight should be banned from travelling, banned from pubs and night clubs because they are bigger spreaders.

    Of course this would be repugnant but that is where the logic of vaccine passports takes you. And that’s before considering that the experimental gene therapies don’t stop the spread.”

  355. VICB3 says:
    @Vergissmeinnicht

    (Posting this up here as a reply so that it doesn’t get lost lower down. Really, everybody ought to see this.)

    Somewhat off topic – not about obesity – but for me the following was the holy grail of information about the vax and side effects. 42 pages including abstract of a very academic and specialist discussion of the topic, including ~11 pages of very substantial references:

    Worse Than the Disease? Reviewing Some Possible Unintended Consequences of the mRNA Vaccines Against COVID-19

    https://ijvtpr.com/index.php/IJVTPR/article/view/23/51

    Around about page 12 is where it gets interesting, Antibody-Dependent Enhancement (ADE) and so forth, and followed by other side effects. All a bit of a slog if you’re not a micro-biologist – I’m not – but defininity worth devoting your time if you’re at all interested in the topic.

    ————————————————————————————

    Also, and as a sort of medical alternative view, here’s a discussion about how Covid is nothing more than misdiagnosed Beriberi. Maybe I’m too open minded, but the author, evidently a medical person of some sort I think, makes some valid observations. Stranger things have happened in the history of Medicine. (Think Pellagra here, misdiagnosed for years.) Anyway, here it is:

    The Pandemic Within a Pandemic

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/08/no_author/the-pandemic-within-a-pandemic/

    Hope all this proves useful and thought provoking.

    Just a thought.

    VicB3

  356. anonymous[262] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    Never gotten a flu vax, never had the flu. True, true and unrelated, as they taught us to say, right after the eye-roll seminar and ‘Essentials of Sarcasm.’

  357. Herald says:
    @Tom Verso

    As editor he can weed out the “parade” and publish genuine science. If he did he would be doing a great service.

    Of course, no one could do that, not even Ron. Settled science is often dogma and isn’t science.

  358. VICB3 says:
    @Tom Verso

    Short answer:

    Because the history of Science (and Medicine) is the history of heresies that proved correct. And a lot of that Scientific Advancement was the result of work and observations of outsiders and weirdos who didn’t belong to The Club, were “The Wrong Sort,” and simply didn’t know or care that something wasn’t done that way.

    And that’s why you have to keep an open mind. And to recognize that even if something seemingly is farfetched, it still may very well have grains of novel truths that warrant further examination.

    Hope this helps!

    Just a thought.

    VicB3

  359. MrE 3001 says:
    @MrE3001

    We really don’t need you, Raches. So by all means, mix and match your vaxxxes.

  360. @Bernard Brandt

    Finally, there is the prior example of HIV/AIDS: ultimately, the disease was not stopped by vaccines, since (like the present virus) it mutates too fast for a single vaccine to be effective against all of the mutations it provides.

    Except that’s flatly not true. HIV is a retrovirus, a RNA virus that includes packed in its envelop some enzymes that convert the RNA into DNA and then integrate it into the host cell’s DNA. That process is extremely unnatural and error prone, I have the general impression retroviruses mutate at a higher rate than any other virus family, but I’m not a virologist. The fact that it attacks the immune system is also very relevant to making vaccines against it.

    By comparison coronaviruses are unique among RNA viruses in having a proofreading mechanism, and while RNA replication mechanisms are unnatural and thus error prone, we already have a bunch of “eternal” vaccines for RNA viruses without the proofreading mechanism that mutate a much higher rates, like the measles and polio. As in, we don’t need to reformulate the vaccines, the immune system response they provide includes enough “conserved” portions of the virus, they can’t change or “the virus won’t virus.”

    That may depend on the cooperation of the virus, measles has been with us sometime since the 5th to 15th Century when it jumped from rinderpest to humans (and BTW, rinderpest is the second virus eradicated off the earth after smallpox, of course using vaccination as one tool). Right now the Alpha and then Delta variants of SARS-CoV-2 show it’s not yet finished adapting to us, and our vaccines are first generation, the Western ones focusing on the spike protein for good reasons so far.

    Eventually we have every reason to believe this dance of vaccines and virus will end up with one or more eternal vaccines for what become the dominant variants or strains of it. That Delta shows us we’re not yet there with a significant amount of efficacy statistically lost (as in, it works less well for some people, still works well for plenty of people, a majority for avoiding hospitalization, not sure about avoiding infection) was not an unexpected development, and is not a sign it’s anything like HIV.

    • Replies: @Wild Man
    , @Bernard Brandt
  361. aj54 says:
    @orchardist

    Not sure you explained why you would take the vax if you were threatened or coerced, those actions are specifically forbidden by Nuremberg, and since we are signatory to those agreements, those actions are unconstitutional.

    • Replies: @orchardist
  362. @SafeNow

    It’s not just that:
    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00592-020-01522-8

    “Essentially obese people spread respiratory viruses more than healthier people.

    Why are obese patients potentially more contagious than lean subjects?

    Three factors make obese subjects more contagious than leans: First, obese subjects with influenza shed the virus for a longer period of time (up to 104% longer) than lean subjects, potentially increasing the chance to spread the virus to others [22]. Secondly, the obese microenvironment favors the emergence of novel more virulent virus strains. This is due mainly to the reduced and delayed capacity to produce interferons by obese individuals and animals [17, 18]. The delay in producing interferon to contrast viral replication allows more viral RNA replication increasing the chances of the appearance of novel, more virulent viral strains [18]. Thirdly, body mass index correlates positively with infectious virus in exhaled breath [23]. This finding was especially significant for males, which leads to the hypothesis that the higher ventilation volumes or a differential chest conformation might explain this fact

    Some people advocate for vaccine passports because they assert that experimental vaccines reduce transmission. The science suggests it doesn’t stop or doesn’t materially stop transmission. But let’s assume for the sake of argument that experimental vaccination reduces transmission. Then presumably you would also advocate that people who are overweight should be banned from travelling, banned from pubs and night clubs because they are bigger spreaders.

    Of course this would be repugnant but that is where the logic of vaccine passports takes you. And that’s before considering that the experimental gene therapies don’t stop the spread.”

    • Replies: @SafeNow
  363. aj54 says:
    @Bernard Brandt

    “… There is uncertainty as to whether those spike proteins stay in the injection site, or circulate throughout the body. There is also uncertainty as to whether those spike proteins, which are mutated to be ‘harmless’, will remain harmless once they are injected…”
    I am wondering where this info came from? There is no uncertainty. The Japanese did the study on the migration of the spike protein from the injection site and found that it goes throughout the body, and has the highest affinity to accumulate in the ovaries. There is an interview on Darkhorse found on Rumble that should fully explain the toxicity of the spike protein for you. https://rumble.com/vipw5h-spike-proteinmrna-is-very-dangerous-its-cytotoxic-robert-malone-steve-kirsc.html
    Robert Malone is one of the developers of the mRNA

  364. JimDandy says:
    @Skeptikal

    If they have the same viral load as the unjabbed

    Reason tells me that they might have more of a viral load than many of the unjabbed.

  365. Ron Unz says:
    @Yevardian

    I haven’t checked if there’s any academic referencing or credit-giving policy from the archive here, but as the same site’s frontpage greets any visitor with a bunch anti-vaxx and holocaust denial articles, how many are going to admit using it publicly, or recommend it anyone but very close friends?

    Actually, I’d completed and released my content-archiving system around 2010, long before I launched this webzine, and eventually merged them together around 2017, more than I year before I started publishing my “touchier” American Pravda articles. But the readership and usage was generally just as disappointing back then.

    Still, I’m hardly alone. I think around 2006, Google launched its Google Books project to digitize virtually all copyright-expired books, and received gigantic MSM coverage, more than anything since the original search engine. But as time went by, it got less and less attention even as they probably spent many hundreds of millions of dollars on the effort, and today I doubt it even gets 0.1% of Google’s total traffic. In fact, the only Internet book system I ever see referenced is the competing OpenLibrary/Archive.org system, which is also just a very niche Internet website, getting only about twice the traffic of our own webzine.

    • Replies: @Raches
  366. @utu

    None which came from or could spread to animals too.
    Like SARS Cov2/Covid 19 does.
    This is one of the long standing 4 principles of and for a successful vaccine development and mass vaccination program, see Paul Cullen, which was, and astonishingly still is, completely ignored.
    Also see the US white deer news in that regard today.

  367. aj54 says:
    @Skeptikal

    I agree with your assessment that the profit motive appears to be the overriding one for the decisions by public health officials.
    “I am not aware that just an operation has been put in place to establish whether the jabbed can spread the virus.”
    The infected vaxxed have as much virus in their nose as the infected unvaxxed. The injection does not stop infection or transmission, only sterilizing vax does that. So any infected person, either vaxxed or unvaxxed, can transmit to others.
    I actually have a problem referring to these injections as a ‘vaccine’ at all, as Fauci tried on more than one occasion to get these mRNA shots patented as a vaccine and was told by the patent office they do not meet the definition.
    The operation should be halted for anyone under age 45. The youngsters are at far more risk statistically from the jab than from the virus, and that is directly from the stats on the CDC website.

  368. A UK lawyer; Anna De Buisseret, who has a background at Pfizer and in the Army with expertise in Bioweapons, has filed for criminal liability against vaccinators who contrary to the Nuremberg Code are illegally administering vaccines without first obtaining informed consent.
    See Video https://namastepublishing.co.uk/uk-lawyer-anna-de-buisseret-serves-notice-of-criminal-liability-on-uk-covid-vaccinators-under-nuremberg-code/

  369. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Dumbo

    The “vaccines” _are_ the bioweapon. A “soft”, or “slow kill” bioweapon, apparently.

    But shush!, don’t tell anyone( like R. Unz, for example). 😭

    Regards, onebornfree

  370. @JimDandy

    Hello,
    You should ask him his sources because in France, in MSM it’s symptoms are described those of hay fever. Outside this echo chamber, all scientists accounts I have read or heard say that it is highly contagious but not as dangerous as the first iteration of SARS-COV2. There are very few people in hospitals except in the propaganda of a dispised government.

    If you needed sources I can provide some but mostly in French.

    • Thanks: JimDandy
  371. Wild Man says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    On this passage of your comment:

    “Eventually we have every reason to believe this dance of vaccines and virus will end up with one or more eternal vaccines for what become the dominant variants or strains of it. That Delta shows us we’re not yet there with a significant amount of efficacy statistically lost (as in, it works less well for some people, still works well for plenty of people, a majority for avoiding hospitalization, not sure about avoiding infection) was not an unexpected development, and is not a sign it’s anything like HIV.”

    Alright, …. I see now, a bit more, the perspective that informs your vaxx-opinions. And fair enough, … you may be right, that in the end, we can continue to fine-tune the mRNA vaccines to the point that they force the expression of the appropriate viral proteins within the vaccinated-person’s body, so as to finally produce a sterilizing vaccine (instead of the current crop of mRNA vaccines, which, contrarily, are leaky). Many here would disagree that your wish for said eventuate, is probable though. But leaving that potential argument aside for the moment, …. now that I understand a bit more about your core perspective (i.e. – I think your core perspective is … ‘let’s just keep doing the grand and massive mRNA vaxx experiment, jab-after-jab, booster-style, with ongoing booster tweaks, until we finally get the magic bullet’ – no?) ….. I gotta ask the question:

    TWBT – why should I or anyone else submit to such a stupid grand and massive experiment? The grand and massive experiment you reference (jabs foreva man, until we achieve the magic bullet!) is stupid because there is alot of potential risk with this approach, and there is no guarantee that it will produce the golden results you hope for. So why then, is this seemingly, your core perspective? Wouldn’t it make a helluva lot more sense, to so-modulate the mRNA vaccines, in the way you favor, within the regular clinical trial process, instead of so-modulating the mRNA vaccines within a massive and grand experiment upon huge swathes of the world’s population?

    • Thanks: JimDandy
  372. kali says:
    @Raches

    In intelligence and counterintelligence* (not to mention basic life wisdom), actions and results are weighed more than mere words. If you read the announcement at the top of this thread, you will notice that Mr. Unz found persuasive my arguments for keeping this topic alive here.

    For everyone here, and especially for cointelpro shill, Raches, THIS is an important illustration:

    My memory is quite clear on this matter because I actually agreed with your suggestion that TUR feature interviews and discussions between well informed, articulate proponents of both sides of this debate.

    You DID NOT suggest that this very important conversation be relegated to a dusty corner of this website, to be forgotten as soon as the next site announcement is made (which I imagine will be quite soon and will be regarding changes to commenting protocol (just a guess based on my and others experiences over the last 2 days regarding absence of interactive keys, suggesting to me that he may be updating the software)).

    Elsewhere on this website I and others have highlighted your obvious mental-health issues, you propensity to self aggrandisement and your narcissistic delusions. Your contributions to this thread so far demonstrate the same and reveal that you have not yet taken your meds.

    If I had not thrown aside other activities to post 23,000 words of commentary in the other thread, then I think it’s likely that you would not be able to post your stuff here at all

    Whilst it is likely true that your well structured prose drew the attention of our host for a moment, it does not at all follow that those of us opposing the totalitarianism associated with the alleged pandemic, the clot-shots and the vaxx-passes would not continue to speak out across many other parts of this website if it weren´t for the introduction of this sand-box which you claim credit for.

    If you were to today go back to your other activities (self-pleasuring over photographs of Adolf, no doubt) and leave these comment sections to the less egotistical contingent I feel safe in saying, you would not be missed and neither would your self-referential claptrap.

    [MORE]

    How do my actions suit the agenda of someone who wants to suppress exposure of “the truth”?

    LOL! Seriously, who do you imagine you´re winning over when you declare your authoritarianism, you racism, and your jew-hate? Stupid little man! Do you really think these announcements make you in any way “credible” to anyone other than the likes of Andrew Algin?

    Do you suppose that such an agenda is better served by what you ridiculously allege to be “teenage level personal attacks against the messenger”, than by shutting you up altogether?

    Do you seriously imagine that even our host can “shut us up altogether” without some drastic changes to his comment policy and software?
    As I have pointed out to you before, this is a PUBLIC PLATFORM, an Mr Unz is a PUBLIC FIGURE who enjoys the kudos of owning a site that generates thousands of comments each week, as he is fond of pointing out in his columns.

    Before you say “controlled opposition”, may I remind you that controlled-opposition fringe movements works best when they are discreditable. Otherwise, it risks persuading too many normal people—and thus, it may grow uncontrollably into real opposition.

    Oh really! What is it about declaring your love of Hitler, your authoritarianism and your hatred of jews that leads you to think you are persuading “normal people” to take you seriously?

    Certainly your attitudes may induce some of the less intelligent commenters here at UR to take you seriously (hence the suspicion that you are “CONTROLLED OPPOSITION”) but the overwhelming majority of “normal people” would be repulsed by your hatered of “minority” groups and you know it!

    You are eminently discreditable. That makes you a very useful idiot, at best.

    Whilst YOU, Madam, are eminently delusional. That makes you a very dangerous individual, at best, and which in turn makes you very likely a cointelpro agent, at worst.

    I have spent many hours of my time striving to establish the basic credibility of those who don’t want the Covid shots.

    Given my above statements, do you really imagine you have any credibility whatsoever? You speak for no-one but yourself and your handlers, and we all know it. Whatever they are paying you to disseminate you bile on this website, it is too much and that is a fact!

    I shot you down, Raches, as you so richly deserve, as an exemplary demonstration of the tactics employed by controlled opposition. My implicit message: “Not all allegedly unvaccinated people are vile scum like this.” Got it?

    Intelligent dissidents of all kinds should study what I am doing here.

    I could not agree more! Intelligent dissidents have a great deal to lean regarding cointelpro tactics from watching you and from understanding your primary purpose is to ingratiate yourself with the less intelligent, leading to who knows what, whilst simultaneously DISCREDITING genuine opposition to the totalitarianism we all now face.

    My personal advice to you, Madam, s that you go back to flicking the bean, or whatever it was you were doing before arrive on this website to inundate us with your narcissistic bull and your cointelpro bate. Up to you if you take it.

    Kali.
    ____________________________________

    To the forum in general, let me apologise that this comment is somewhat disjointed. I´m writing comments offline today (and for the rest of the month probably) due to very limited internet access (already used too much data this month) but I see so many excellent contributions here that would love to interact with if I had the resources! Thank you all (well, most of you) for your efforts to highlight the concerns so many of us share.

    To @ultrafartthebrave, thanks for your reply and for your warnings throughout this thread regarding the upcoming cyber-polygon attack. Your words are well heeded.

    You cause me to recall a “vision” (or day-dream or projection) I had many years ago in which humans were using horses and carts for transport through deserted cities and towns, where vegetation grew through cracks in pavements and walls. – not such a bad future, really. At the time I had a very certain understanding that this change would come about during my lifetime (I´m now 54).

    What didn´t occur to me at that time was the utter devastation and death that would necessarily precede such a change. Sadly, it seems, it is our fate to witness this loss. But for those of us who survive the historic events now unfolding there will be so many opportunities to create meaningful and welcome changes to the ways we live on this extraordinary planet, opportunities to reconnect with a living God never written about in the unholy death-cultists scriptures to Mamon. (Note: this is not to disparage the teachings of Christ, if he existed at all as anything other than allegory. For those with eyes to see, he really did show the way, if only his teachings had not been co-opted by vain and greedy men.)

    The light at the end of the tunnel may be an oncoming train, but we have already stepped out of its way. Once it has passed we may be ready for a new dawn in the affairs of mankind.

    With much love and gratitude to each of you,
    Kali.

    • Agree: Polemos
    • Thanks: Ultrafart the Brave
    • Troll: Raches
    • Replies: @Bugey libre
    , @Raches
  373. @cassandra

    Make it a yellow “corona” virus or a dripping syringe

  374. lysias says:
    @Dumbo

    The two ideas — bioweapon and vaccines — far from being incompatible, are quite compatible. One of the reasons (perhaps the major reason) the bioweapon might have been deployed could have been with the intention of getting people to take the vaccines.

    • Agree: Wild Man, JimDandy
  375. @meamjojo

    why would ron unz wish to be like msm? what the west needs is independent thinking, critical reasoning, which ron unz presents, mentors & allows, those tuned in to msm when they begin to re-discover their ability to reason will find their way here. i admire ron unz for his ability to allow all thought, very like hypatia, & the belief any idea that could hold up to argument & debate was to be considered. in our current world, unfortunately there is only a small aperture allowed, beyond that has become the netherworld of ‘beyond the pale’.

    • Replies: @meamjojo
  376. Raches says:
    @Ron Unz

    Still, I’m hardly alone. I think around 2006, Google launched its Google Books project to digitize virtually all copyright-expired books, and received gigantic MSM coverage, more than anything since the original search engine. But as time went by, it got less and less attention even as they probably spent many hundreds of millions of dollars on the effort, and today I doubt it even gets 0.1% of Google’s total traffic. In fact, the only Internet book system I ever see referenced is the competing OpenLibrary/Archive.org system, which is also just a very niche Internet website, getting only about twice the traffic of our own webzine.

    Well, by golly, I’m just shocked that you don’t see more references to HathiTrust! But not as shocked as I am that an academic resource CamelCases its name. Horresco referens. Open Library does not officially CamelCase its name, unlike HathiTrust.

    Of course, you don’t get even a fraction of Google Books’ traffic. Besides more obvious factors, Google Books is the go-to book linking source in the references on the Wikipravda Enclopedia. The Wikipravda is the Official Source of Truth for schoolteachers, journalists, government officials, and >99.99999% of the general public, so I guess that lots of traffic must pass through there.

    You underscore some of the inferences that I drew in the other thread—middle portion of long comment; before you mentioned it, I had already been intending to file a feature request for pinpoint paragraph anchors in the comments:

    Mr. Unz runs a very broad range of articles for the masses, from Andrew Anglin from Ted Rall. Frankly, I dislike much of it—maybe even most of it. (Needless to say, I dislike Mr. Rall. If wannabe-Nazi Mr. Anglin were living in National-Socialist Germany, he would have been arrested for socially destructive degeneracy and put to work in a labor camp long ago. No, Reichsminister Dr. Goebbels would not accept “ironic humor” as an excuse.) But then, I am not of the masses.

    Mr. Unz can influence the masses for whatever his agenda may be; and more importantly, traffic comes and links get passed around. His really important work is highly intellectual. 99% of people are unable to read it. But those who can read it are more likely to be important. The problem is to make them aware of this site. The best library in the world will not help much, if nobody knows that it exists. The masses spread awareness of this site.

    This may be relevant to why you find me to be a reasonable anti-vaxxer, much though I may present some other perplexities: I came in through that Modern Age article in the content archive, then later noticed American Pravda, then eventually figured out that you also have some other stuff here.

    With great sadness, I must now force myself to desist from writing about ten or twenty thousand words on my lunatic fanatical zeal for archives. Later, perhaps. Be forewarned that it gets political. I condescend to people who reck so little of their own intellectual past that they need Ron Unz to save it for them. To rebut me, Mr. Anglin may hop in here to explain that it’s boomer stuff, and some of it was even written by women whose husbands lamentably failed to beat the literacy out of them; therefore, it is unworthy of saving. Save yourself! You need to purge the boomers and silence the women, if you ever want for Jesus to pat you on the head and give you a lollipop.

  377. Here is my evidential & anecdotal theory. From 2020 to mid 2021 there was no real virus epidemic as evidenced by CDC data showing Deaths-All Causes did not increase over the general population increase of the elderly over that period of time. The media pandemic was meant to instill fear and set people up for taking the vaxx which is the real bio-weapon.

    All those I know who recently got the so=called virus got it from someone vaxxed. The vaxxed are the superspreaders. But the government is reversing this to create a narrative that the unvazzed are the threat.

    The new Delta Variant is just a weaponized spike protein coated in sugar so the immune system does not know it is there and does not mobilize immune cells to fight it. You get it and think you are ok but then 10 days later you have pneumonia and hypoxia. You can induce the same symptoms if you deplete people of 30 mg. of Vitamin B-1 reserves in body– called Beri-Beri disease.

    China and India have banned the vax. But US, Canada, Australia, NZ, Britain & Europe (all white dominant countries) are being socked with vaccines. There are two real virus vaccines out there but they are not being offered.

    So, the skeptics were right– no real virus and the Wuhan lab release has even been bought by the Right on this website. However, now there is a real bio-weapon that is the vax.

    • Agree: Ultrafart the Brave
    • Replies: @Ann Nonny Mouse
    , @Ron Unz
  378. I have to wonder if the immune problems people suffer from today are due to the vaccines they have received. After all, the purpose of vaccines is to manipulate the immune system and “spike” its response.

    Maybe our immune system has been manipulated and “spiked” a little too much.

    Any follow up research into this?

  379. CO-19 Vaccination in Israel Works Quite Well for the Elderly – New Data

    Sam Sokol in “Haaretz” 16. of August:

    “Unvaccinated Israeli elderly are eight times more likely to experience a severe case of COVID-19 than their immunized counterparts, according to Health Ministry data.”

    The article is online:

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-covid-graphs-prove-vaccines-works-delta-pfizer-1.10101640

  380. SafeNow says:
    @Josh Gerard

    Thank you. I didn’t know that obese people present a greater exhalation risk. This reminds me of the fact that people wearing masks tend to engage in Lombard speech. (Lombard speech is speech that has a higher volume, and an elongation of vowel sounds, and a higher frequency.) I guess the moral of the story is stay away from obese people wearing non-N95 masks and speaking loudly.

  381. @Bernard Brandt

    Make that a good, milk-free diet, as close to vegetarian as you can, plenty of exercise, and aim for the bottom end of the “normal” BMI range. Vitamin supplements on top of that, maybe.

  382. @Bernard Brandt

    And it’s not the 60+ who need vaxx, not even the 80+ who are fit, it’s the unfit, those in nursing homes, meaning very, very sick, plus the obese.

    • Replies: @onebornfree
  383. @kali

    Kali,

    Action resolves contradictions said Master of Yi chuan Wang Sheng Chai. What kind of actions can commenting lead us to? During these last months we’ve shared much information and sometimes, good hearted messages that enlighted our very souls in these time of madness.

    What next, what are we waiting for? The solution, a Ron Unz superman saving us from the Anglozionists and the human propensity to be infected by Wetiko (cf Paul Levy, awaken in the dream)?
    Or him writing another piece of the American Pravda where he’d say that for 18 months he had believed the mainstream about the “horrible disease” plaguing the world but that suddenly, through the grace of his readers and the sum of high level datas they had braught, he had seen the light and started to accept the possibility that like Jean Dominique Michel a Swiss anthropologist of the health systems says, “ALL IS FAKE” and that it is all delirium spread by psychopaths wanting to replace God.

    Then what?

    The solution is at the grassroot level where we have better chance to evaluate who is who and who to associate with to do things, to help one another spiritualy, psychologicaly and in real live to navigate in the prison we are living in now.

    I am very, very glad I could share with you and many more people behind the pseudos here. I am not shure Mr Unz is a controled opposition. He offers a platform of conversation around many great articles.

    My beautiful black daughters are waiting for me…

    Take good care of you Kali, Jah bless you

    Ron is not here to bring us to salvation, we got work to do

    • Replies: @kali
    , @flashlight joe
  384. @Wayne Lusvardi

    I haven’t read that China has banned the vax. That’s hugely important if true. Please provide references to evidence of that assertion.

  385. lysias says:
    @utu

    Well, I have been taking megadoses of Vitamin D for over a year now. First, 25,000 IU per day, then, after a few months, 18,000 IU per day. The reason I reduced the dosage was that I was finding the diarrhea it caused inconvenient. At the low dosage, I still have diarrhea, but at a more tolerable level. And that is the only bad result that I have noticed.

    My Type 2 diabetes is practically cured (Hba1c went from 6.5 to 5.8). Fungal infection in my toenails cleared up. Appetite reduced, so that I have been able to lose weight. My present Vitamin D blood level, 84 ng/mL, is on the high end of optimal, which I hope will enable me to resist any covid infection that may occur.

    And the only bad result I have noticed is diarrhea at a now tolerable level.

    • Replies: @Bert
    , @utu
  386. @Ann Nonny Mouse

    Instead of lockdowns, instead of vaxxx, let’s get Covid!

    The problem with your recommendation is, you’re actually speaking logic and common sense.

    Those have nothing to do with what’s actually going on.

    Woe unto the lemmings who think it does.

  387. Liza says:
    @metamars

    OK, thank you for your reply. I guess that, strictly speaking, though, Mercola’s still at it! I don’t know anything about computers and so on, but couldn’t somebody just somehow save and republish his articles starting now.

  388. Hawaii’s largest hospital runs out of ICU beds
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/hawaiis-largest-hospital-has-no-icu-beds-amid-virus-surge/ar-AANqzCk?ocid=BingNewsSearch

    The Queen’s Health Systems was canceling some elective surgeries and procedures and diverting emergency patients to other hospitals, The Honolulu Star-Advertiser reported.

    Numerous Texas hospitals are out of ICU beds
    https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/multiple-regions-across-texas-now-completely-out-of-icu-beds-data-shows/287-aaffc3f1-5d3b-4fa7-911d-bfd56bc174c9

    RIGHT ON MY UNVACCINATED BRETHERN

    LETS KEEP SHUTTING THESE HOSPITALS DOWN

    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
  389. Ron Unz says:
    @Wayne Lusvardi

    Here is my evidential & anecdotal theory. From 2020 to mid 2021 there was no real virus epidemic as evidenced by CDC data showing Deaths-All Causes did not increase over the general population increase of the elderly over that period of time.

    Against my better judgment I suppose I’ll have to republish this comment, as I’ve done about a dozen times before:

    But here’s a listing of TOTAL American deaths from all causes over the last few years, taken directly from the CDC website:

    2014: 2,626,418
    2015: 2,712,630
    2016: 2,744,248
    2017: 2,813,503
    2018: 2,839,205
    2019: 2,854,838
    2020: 3,384,426

    You’ll notice that the numbers are fairly steady until 2020 when they suddenly jumped by well over 500,000.

    If I didn’t know any better, I’d almost think that America had been struck by a dangerous disease epidemic that year.

    It’s obviously just a matter of personal opinion whether an extra half-million deaths in 2020 is a big number or a small number…

  390. @SunBakedSuburb

    And did you see what Dr. Malone said about it? Strongly warned against it.

  391. Unvaccinated brethren we have a serious problem that we need to deal with.

    It seems that every other day one of our anti-vaxx leaders ends up in the hospital and switches sides and tells everyone to get vaccinated. CNN puts them on TV and makes our movement look foolish. As far as I can tell they switch 100% of the time.

    How can we prevent this from happening?

    I’m thinking we create a special ops force that removes them from the hospital and reminds them of which side they are on. Maybe we can get one of those brain scan things from that aliens movie to see if they have an implant.

    Another option is to have our leaders get secretly vaccinated. Now here me out. Let’s say the virus is real and the vaccine does work. In that unlikely but possible scenario we are probably better off having them get vaccinated so they don’t end up on CNN. They can still pretend to be unvaccinated and be on what is clearly the correct side. Now they might be skeptical of this plan but we just have to convince them that it’s in the best interest of the group that they do it. We could call it a special commitment that they have to make as individuals for the greater good.

    Thoughts?

    • Replies: @Wild Man
    , @Raches
    , @thotmonger
  392. u r dum says:
    @dearieme

    Please provide citations to longitudinal studies on the health outcomes of vaccinated versus unvaccinated cohorts.

    I’ll wait.

  393. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Greta Handel

    It’s more the little ironic that Mr Unz has apparently aligned with a self proclaimed, Nazi loving authoritarian windbag, me thinks.😎

    However, it should not be too surprising to an observant individual, after all, the technocratic mindset ( or as I call it, the “mechanistic mindset”) , is the basic mindset of most all totalitarians of any brand I.e. the false assumption that all humans are basically nothing more than mostly similar machines, (and not unique individuals ), to “therefore” be controlled by some wise, all knowing “benevolent” dictator and to “therefore” be programmed “accordingly”.

    Which makes the technocratic Mr Unz yet another (at this point probably completely unaware), totalitarian dictator in the making, unfortunately.

    And so it goes……..

    See:
    “You,Trump,Sanders Etc., Vs “Dictator Syndrome”:
    https://onebornfree-mythbusters.blogspot.com/2015/08/do-you-suffer-from-dictator-syndrome.html?m=0

    Regards, onebornfree

  394. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Ann Nonny Mouse

    “And it’s not the 60+ who need vaxx, not even the 80+ who are fit, it’s the unfit, those in nursing homes, meaning very, very sick, plus the obese.”

    Yeah, that ought to kill em all…. if not, the ventilator “treatment” should do the trick! 😒

    “Regards” onebornfree

  395. Skeptikal says:
    @Raches

    “Hitler was an exquisitely nuanced thinker; and so am I.”

    Yeah, moi aussi.

    “As I alluded earlier, my own views are a bit more complex than you may imagine.”

    Strange usage. “alluded” requires a preposition.

    Plus an indirect object. “alluded to what?”

    Plus, of course “alluded” is the wrong word here.

    Who / what is generating this stuff?

    • Agree: Theophrastus
  396. @John Johnson

    RIGHT ON MY UNVACCINATED BRETHERN

    LETS KEEP SHUTTING THESE HOSPITALS DOWN

    Really really really? Haven’t we all been down this path before?

    I call BS on these hospitals allegedly “running out of ICU beds”.

    Let’s get some real journalists with cameras into these places to see what’s really happening.

    Or let’s look at a recent expose by Dr. Jane Ruby of the blatant scaremongering fake news claiming hospitals “overflowing with the dead” in Florida (starts at 36 minutes into the video)…

    Speaking of ICUs, here’s an actual ICU nurse telling the truth about what’s actually going on…

    https://www.redvoicemedia.com/video/2021/08/video-icu-nurse-youre-being-lied-to-about-covid/

    • Replies: @John Johnson
  397. Raches says:
    @Yevardian

    I haven’t checked if there’s any academic referencing or credit-giving policy from the archive here, but as the same site’s frontpage greets any visitor with a bunch anti-vaxx and holocaust denial articles, how many are going to admit using it publicly, or recommend it anyone but very close friends?

    […]

    Antiquity is afterall, still recommended as one of the last safe refuges from the ‘social justice’ train in the humanities.

    These two apparently disjoint parts of your comment are intimately related.

    Insofar as I can see, one of the most important objectives that Ron Unz has achieved is to throw a monkey-wrench into intellectual censorship—and together with this, into cultural and political Balkanization between the mainstream and the dispossessed. I do infer that it may be one of his deliberate objectives; but unlike most commentators, I cannot read Mr. Unz’s mind. I may have just stated a “conspiracy theory” over a fortuitous accident; either way, the results are the same.

    First, before considering academic and intellectual circles, consider the political (a word I thereby intentionally use as a substantive). For an illustrative example, Mr. Unz’s own political opinions are clearly more or less irreconcilable with white nationalism; but he has drawn them out of the places where the mainstream had penned them up.

    Here, he can talk to them freely—sometimes in a friendly way, sometimes with debates that can become a bit rancorous. He can find out what they really think, instead of what the New York Times or The Atlantic says they think; and it is obviously beneficial for them to speak for themselves as such. They read articles here that support their opinions, and they are also exposed to ideas that they find quite disagreeable; it is not an echo-chamber. On the flipside, other people are exposed to white nationalist ideas that they would not otherwise have seen.

    It is a give-and-take. I doubt that Mr. Unz is trying to fool them; and I wouldn’t be here, if I thought he were the type to use that well-known strategy (although I necessarily do keep watch for signs of this). Both sides benefit in different ways; and both sides need to take a political risk to grasp for that benefit. Both sides even need to risk the possibility that they may be persuaded that they were wrong; arguments shall stand or fall on their merits. Mr. Unz is lucky that I am not a white nationalist!

    Those who make their stand on fallacious arguments may get steamrolled. E.g., observe happens to the immigration restrictionists every time that they, whose desire to avoid being called “racist” leaves them no real arguments, repose their position on cries about “Hispanic crime”. Mr. Unz has the numbers, he is more astute politically than they are, and he always wins this argument. But of course, someone may someday offer him an argument he cannot answer.

    Now, consider the academic and intellectual milieux.

    Yevardian, if you find yourself needing a “safe refuge”, then you have experienced the cultural and psychological straitjacket that Mr. Unz rips apart. His offer of serious, valuable literature here is a stand for freedom of the mind; and what you perceive as a problem is a challenge to the academic and intellectual establishment, the same establishment that ultimately sets the course of the mass-media establishment, the political establishment, and otherwise absolutely every institution in society. In parallel to how high culture always leads popular culture, the professors of today lead the institutional leaders of tomorrow.

    Doctrinaire conductors on the “‘social justice’ train” you so despise will run away screaming with a deafening silence, repulsed by the thoughtcrimes at The Unz Review. But Mr. Unz’s content archive must be mighty tempting to mere passengers on that train, if they are not deeply dogmatic; and for those who wish to debark, this is a destination offering some of that refreshing intellectual freedom you so desiderate.

    Now, consider the top-down effects of getting people off that train. The censorship of the intellectual mind produced an environment in which the popular mind factionalizes, with popular (and populist) dissenters totally locked out of the establishment. Counterintuitively, opening new debates at the top may bring people together at the bottom—at least, inasmuch as their differences are not totally irreconcilable. Everyone gets some respectable leadership; and the people can talk to each other, rather than separating into opposing echo chambers in which they seethe with hatred at each other.

    For those of us who may like to see the whole system burnt to the ground, that is obviously counterproductive; for those of us who may like to salvage something from the ruins of civilization, it may work out just fine. Anyway, I infer that Mr. Unz wants to turn an horrifically dysfunctional society into the society in which he would prefer to live. That takes genuine statesmanship, rather than “playing politics”. Just as with his fight against bilingualism in the 1990s, people don’t understand what he is actually doing—and that doesn’t matter.

    __________

    More generally, a factor on which Mr. Unz recently remarked (bold his, italics mine) applies not only to his American Pravda, but to the subject that we are here discussing:

    My American Pravda articles are potentially important, because they provide deep analysis of crucial issues in ways found almost nowhere else, and people who have absorbed them, including potentially important individuals, have had their view of the world changed as a result. They’ve now been viewed many millions of times, and there’s no way of knowing who has read them.

    There is no way of knowing who will come to this site, or how each individual will react.

    Whereupon, I must declare against every egalitarian superstition: All men are created unequal. Human beings are not fungible, much though democracy may try to transform them into identical, interchangeable units of capitalist “human resources” that are all absolutely equal in degradation. I myself would rather communicate my thoughts to a dozen leading intellectuals, than to millions of mass-men on television or Youtube. Some readers are more important than others—and if I had to bet, I’d bet that some of the readers who most appreciate The Unz Review are not only more important than mere mediocrities, but also more important than “social justice” leaders. The ones who are most resistant to the problem that you describe are more important than those who are not—and in time, they may influence the others.

    Now, much though I would enjoy reviewing The Unz Review in far greater detail, I must cut this short and conclude with a question. Do you suggest that amidst the desert, antiquity is an oasis of true scholarship and academic integrity? Or, switching to a more topical metaphor: Do you suggest instead merely that in your diagnosis, antiquity is the healthiest patient in the infectious disease ward which, from carelessness and decline of standards, is incongruously still named “humanities”? If the former, may I suggest that the concern you expressed to Mr. Unz conclusively proves otherwise.

    __________

    As for your remark about credit policies, for my part, I think that unless there is a sound reason not to, it would be courteous to identify the unusual library from which you obtained a reference that you are citing. (Nota bene, personal cowardice is never a sound reason.) As a practical matter, hiding the secret stash of rare materials is cruel to readers—at least, to your best and most desirable readers: The ones who care enough about your work to follow your references. However, I don’t see how a policy could be enforced, or even applicable, especially for the materials that are out of copyright; and it is certainly not plagiarism to cite a book or article without saying where you obtained it.

    Have courtesy and common sense so degenerated that all is only a matter of legalistic (and probably not legally enforceable) policy? If so, perhaps that itself answers my above-stated question: From various things that I have read, in a bygone era, academia operated mostly on the basis of personal honor, professional integrity, and wise individual discretion.

    (An unfortunately necessary disclaimer: I make no particular claims of academic credentials or authority. As usual, I repose my arguments on the merits thereof.)

    • Replies: @orchardist
    , @Ron Unz
  398. @Raches

    Terribly sorry to bother you with this…but could you explain how to use “Pinpoint Quoting”, or direct me to a location where this could be explained?

    • Replies: @Raches
  399. Skeptikal says:
    @obwandiyag

    And guess who lent themselves to Big Tobacco’s smoking campaigns—or should I say “sold”???
    Doctors.

    https://scopeblog.stanford.edu/2019/04/30/doctors-smoking-new-exhibit-displays-now-startling-ads/

    For more images do a search for “doctors advertising cigarettes” and then hit “images” (URL is way too long). Of course the “doctors” in the ads are models, but the medical profession still went along with it.

    As with Hitler’s T4 Program. The medical profession’s ‘collusion or at the very least Mitlaufen was crucial to the success of both campaigns.

    Regarding tobacco, the constant defense was that there was not evidence/proof that cigarettes were harmful to health. Sound familiar? It is, whenever there is a lot of money to be made.

    • Replies: @lysias
  400. @Carlton Meyer

    This is another reason I mistrust the COVID narrative. I have never heard or read Fauci encourage Americans to get more sun or take Vitamin D supplements. I wish someone would ask him about this.

    This is not a criticism of you, but if you haven’t heard or read that Fauci advocates vitamin D supplementation then you haven’t been looking in the right places. It has been public knowledge for quite some time. Fauci admitted that he does take vitamin D3, in September last year, and that was a response to a direct inquiry. To my uncertain knowledge, he has never ADVOCATED the taking of vitamin D3(or vitamin C that he also admits taking).

    https://vitamindwiki.com/Dr.+Fauci+takes+6%2C000+IU+of+Vitamin+D+daily+%E2%80%93+Sept+2020

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=fauci+interview+vitamin+d3&ia=web

    • Replies: @lysias
    , @JimDandy
  401. Raches says:
    @Onebornfree

    How the fuck you interpret my comment as an attempt to censor you and order you to leave this site, I’ll never know , and really don’t care. I meant leave the US, you freedom hating, “benevolent dictatorship” loving, Hitler worshiping, perpetually blathering fool!

    No regards, onebornfree

    Well, this is droll. I read you as ordering me to leave The Unz Review, because you know that I am here. I incorrectly assumed that you weren’t dumb enough to make assumptions about who, where, or what I am.

    Second of all, why do you assume that I be American? Maybe I am; maybe I’m not. You are as bad as the “anti-racist” irrational racist who assumed that I be white. As a rational racist, I find that offensive.

    And first of all, it’s funny that you so love American “freedom”, you wish to exile from the United States people who disagree with you in an Internet debate. Part of why I love Hitler is my disgust for your brand of “freedom”. It is a stereotypical American view of so-called “freedom”. You don’t know what freedom is.

    Regardless, you should support Biden in his quest to destroy the First Amendment of that Constitution you so adore. Uncle Joe is your hero: He wants totally to undermine First Amendment, in furtherance of his “domestic war on terror” against people who have opinions like mine, among numerous others whom he finds to be politically inconvenient.

    Biden wants to go full Stalin on anyone who likes Hitler! Aren’t you glad that you voted for Uncle Joe? Uncle Joe wants to confine me to a gulag for you; and regardless of where I am, Uncle Joe’s agenda would stop Mr. Unz from giving a platform to my Unapproved Thoughts(TM).

    Onebornfree, you valiant defender of liberty, here is a handy tipline for you to rat me out for my extremist hate speech and “suspicious behaviors”:

    While you’re at it, why don’t you ask them to vaxx me.

    • Replies: @onebornfree
  402. John Wear says:
    @Ron Unz

    Against my better judgment, I will republish my questions about the COVID-19 pandemic:

    If the masks work—Why the six feet?

    If the six feet works—Why the masks?

    If both of the above work—Why the lockdowns?

    If all three of the above work—Why the vaccines?

    If the vaccines are safe—Why protect them with a no liability clause?

    If the vaccines are safe—Why not test them on animals before using them on humans?

    If the vaccines are safe—Why did Tiffany Dover, a healthy 30-year-old nurse, faint 17 minutes after receiving a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine? Is Tiffany Dover dead? Why are so many other people having adverse reactions and dying from the vaccines?

    If it normally takes 10 to 15 years to develop vaccines—How were the COVD-19 vaccines safely developed in less than a year?

    If successful vaccines have never been developed for other coronaviruses—Why should we expect successful vaccines for this coronavirus?

    If SARS-CoV-2 exists—Why has it never been isolated?

    If SARS-CoV-2 has never been isolated—How can effective vaccines be developed?

    If SARS-CoV-2 has never been isolated–How can SARS-CoV-2 variants be determined to exist?

    If the RT-PCR test works—Why so many false positives?

    If Kary Mullis, the inventor of the RT-PCR test who conveniently died in August 2019, said his test shouldn’t be used to diagnose infectious diseases—Why use it to detect SARS-CoV-2?

    If the RT-PCR test works—Why did samples from papaya fruit and a goat sent to a testing lab by Tanzanian President John Magufuli, using fictitious human names and ages, test positive for SARS-CoV-2?

    If there is an epidemic—Why so many empty hospitals?

    If large numbers of people are dying from SARS-CoV-2—Why so many fake causes of death on the death certificates? Are flu deaths being recharacterized as COVID-19 deaths?

    If SARS-CoV-2 exists—Why give doctors financial incentives to diagnose SARS-CoV-2?

    If the official COVID-19 narrative is defensible—Why censor people who dispute this narrative? Why not debate them instead?

    If the official COVID-19 narrative is defensible—Why are national leaders who contest this narrative such as Haitian President Jovenel Moise, Tanzanian President John Magufuli, and Burundi President Pierre Nkurunziza dying at relatively young ages and being replaced by leaders who support the official COVID-19 narrative?

  403. Tony Hall says:

    A formidable SOS where a top academic medical practitioner outlines the nature of layer upon layer of professional malfeasance committed in the rush to universalize mandatory COVID inoculations along with universalized digital passports and such.

    Lots of content presented succinctly, all in a small but efficiently-packed vehicle.


  404. QueBec HQ says:

    The so-called elites who decided to VIOLATE the Canadian constitution WILL BE SUED. By imposing vaccination and threatening medical personnel to lose their jobs, they perfectly know that they are violating the constitution.


    Droit constitutionnel, Section 6, La justice fondamentale, B. c) Le droit à la sécurité.

    [MORE]

    Le droit à la sécurité que protège l’article 7 inclut l’aspect physique et aussi l’aspect psychologique de la sécurité ; Prentice c. Canada, 2006, 3 R.C.F. 135 (C.A.), autorisation d’appeler refusée. La notion de sécurité de la personne, au sens de l’article 7, comprends l’autonomie personnelle, du moins en ce qui a trait au droit de faire des choix concernant sa propre personne, le contrôle de son intégrité physique et mentale, et la dignité humaine fondamentale: Rodriguez c. Colombie Britannique (Procureur général), 1993 3 R.C.S. 519.

    … Du point de vue de la sécurité physique, cela signifie aussi que l’article 7 s’applique à toutes les interventions affectant l’intégrité physique des personnes, du simple bertillonnage jusqu’au prélèvement de substances corporelles, en passant par les examens et les traitements médicaux obligatoires ; R. c .Beare, (1988) 2 R.C.S. 387; R.c. Stillman (1997) 1 R.C.S. 607 ; R.c. Monney (1999) 1 R.C.S

    … Quant à la sécurité psychologique, elle comprend les interventions pénales ou criminelles de l’État qui sont de nature engendrer une tension grave chez l’individu: Morgentaler et Rodriguez, supra. Plus généralement, il faut se référer au sentiment d’une personne qui a une sensibilité raisonnable. Il s’agit d’un critère objectif. Les répercussions de l’acte de l’État doivent être plus importantes qu’une tension ou une angoisse ordinaire, sans avoir à entraîner un choc nerveux ou un trouble psychiâtrique: Nouveau-Brunswick (Ministère de la Santé et des services communautaires) c. G. (J.) 1999 3 R.C.S. 46

  405. Wild Man says:
    @John Johnson

    Hello again Mr. Johnson. Perhaps the problem with your vision Mr Johnson, is that you, like so many others that now reside within western jurisdictions, have no clue what the precepts and premises of westernism are.

    Westernism is about upholding the ‘responsible indivdual’ as the acendant value, among all the other variables that interact with the ‘responsible individual’ (i.e. – the individual’s family, the individual’s community, the individual’s nation, and the individual’s membership within humanity …. all subordinate to the ascendancy of the ‘responsible individual’, as per the dictates of westernism). Within true-west ideology, the ‘responsible individual’ is ascendant, as the most important measure to uphold, vs. the other measures mentioned. In turn, the other measures mentioned, are upheld, in order to serve the ascendancy of the ‘responsible individual’.

    The ‘responsible individual’ is predicated on the human belief that we posses the power of self-agency, meaning ….. the belief that we each have the power to make meaningful non-deterministic personal decisions, for which, as such, it follows that we each should be personally responsible for the consequences thereof.

    This slow-moving vaxx-totalitarian nightmare, spits in the face of the responsible individual, so-defined. Our decisions are always limited (i.e. – constrained by circumstance), yet the western belief is that, nevertheless, one can always decide upon something, despite the choices to decide upon often being limited. What we have now is a regime that seeks further unnecessary coercive control over the responsible individual’s decision-making power, by way of choice limitation. This is anti-western. As such, I cannot support that.

    The vaxx-mandates are anti-true-west bunk. The vaxx-shaming is anti-true-west-bunk. There should only be (from our officials) recommendations, …. and informed choice. That’s it. If they can’t do that, we need to replace them forthwith. These officials are not even capable of the provision of informed choice, for the general public (7 egregious, obnoxious, and very harmful Covid Officialdom lies so far … and maybe as many as 11 such lies) …. and with no informed choice there is no ‘recommendation-only limitation’ put upon said officials. Without said ‘recommendation-only limitation’ stricture put upon said officials, under this lying scenario … we don’t have westernism.

    And that is the overall globalist plan (and has been for decades now). Don’t be a putz, and turn your head away from what is occuring all around you now. Instead – choose to see the writing on the wall, like a ‘responsible individual’.

    This ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated’ meme you keep promoting ….. come now Mr. Johnson … surely you see through that? And even if this was a pandemic of the unvaccinated (which it isn’t) at this juncture (which could only be true if the experimental western vaxxes were not leaky, which they are) … so what? It’s not your call. It’s not Fauci’s call. It’s not Justin Trudeau’s call. It’s the responsible individual’s call. If not … then this is not a western jurisdiction. If this is no longer a western jurisdiction ….. a revolution would then be what is called for, in order to restore this life-giving westernism, our birthright.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
  406. @Raches

    Ron, you aren’t fooling anybody with this stuff. Your sock-puppetry does not conceal the contempt in which you hold the visitors to your website.

    • Troll: Raches
    • Replies: @Raches
  407. @Raches

    hired a guy like you once long ago

    let him go after a couple months

    too much noise and not enough signal

  408. There is no long-term safety data.

    A drug for which there is no long-term safety data is dangerous by definition.

    In three years, maybe the test subjects will exhibit better health than the controls.

    Maybe there will be no significant difference.

    Maybe the test subjects will all die.

    Nobody can confidently rule out any of these outcomes. We are in uncharted territory.

    “95% effective” and “totally safe” was the naïve promise from government and industry.

    Not “wears off in a few months” and “more confirmed deaths than all vaccines in recorded history.”

    Informed people understand the potential of spike proteins to cause tissue damage, autoimmune conditions, and thrombosis, regardless of whether those proteins are produced by Sars-CoV-2 or mRNA injection.

    Are those unquantified risks outweighed by temporary protection from a virus hardly more dangerous than flu?

    We will have the evidence soon enough.

    History is unlikely to regard it as a close decision.

  409. Dr. Rock says:

    I’m a hardcore anti-COVID “vaccine” zealot, but rather than bore anyone with the myriad reasons I came to be one, I will simply state this:
    I don’t like to be “FORCED” to do ANYTHING. I chaffed at seatbelts, rejected helmet laws, and in the subsequent decades, have found that my individual sense of personal freedom, pervades most all of my actions.
    Moreover, the more the government tries to force me to do something, my rejection level doubles accordingly.
    Like many others, this is a hill I’m willing to die on.

    • Thanks: omegabooks
  410. Raches says:
    @John Johnson

    It seems that every other day one of our anti-vaxx leaders ends up in the hospital and switches sides and tells everyone to get vaccinated. CNN puts them on TV and makes our movement look foolish. As far as I can tell they switch 100% of the time.

    Given the quality of alleged anti-vaxx leaders whom you have previously cited, I’d say that CNN and you are both weaving a conspiracy theory as the basis for a strawman. Insofar as I can see, your alleged “movement” actually consists of a few very vocal crackpots and marginal obsessives on the Internet, plus numerous intelligent people who are not part of any “movement”. I believe that most of the latter are unlikely to show up in these discussions, because they are normal people with real lives; they have neither time nor inclination to argue about vaccines on the Internet.

    Another option is to have our leaders get secretly vaccinated.

    I know that you are trying to be sarcastic, but it comes off as unintentionally ironic. You are presenting a grandiose conspiracy theory about a “movement” with strawman “leaders”. It is funny when you sarcastically suggest that those alleged leaders should secretly conspire to deceive their alleged followers—and it is not funny in the way that you intend.

    A sadder irony is that I’m beginning to wish that there were a legitimate “movement” that I could join. Intelligent organized opposition is needed against the pandemic of mass-hysteria, of which you are a superspreader.

    Thoughts?

    When data are available, I prefer the data (same link as #2 above) to your testimonials “As Seen On TV”.

    Trust the science!

    Do you seriously suggest that all, or even most of these people are following a “movement” headed by your as-seen-on-TV “leaders”?

    Also, you may want to address my rebuttal of what I call your “no atheists in foxholes” style of argument (same link as #1 above).

    Those are thoughts, in contradistinction to feelings.

  411. @Hans

    Ron Unz, the Jew, who makes his money from Jewish financial wizardry (Babylonian Magik Tricks) is, and always was, controlled opposition. His site, a conspiracies theorist treasure trove, covers many interesting topics, but focuses relentlessly on distracting divide and conquer issues, particularly racial politics. Ron castigates the racists on his site, then publishes yet another ‘race realist’ article. Many of the conspiracies covered, interesting as they are, have no direct bearing on my life right now in 2021, such the holohoax narrative, 911, who shot JFK etc. Even the origins of COVID is secondary to the vaccinations issue, which for me is the ONLY story I care about right now.

    As I write, I may have COVID as anther family member has tested positive, but we will not be tested as I do not trust the PCR tests. I have a slight cold and we will self isolate, but WE WILL NEVER TAKE THE VACCINE. This gene therapy masquerading as a ‘RNA vaccine’ is not authorized, has no long term studies done on humans (the animals tested died), and has already killed thousands, including some of my friends. Some leading scientists have said that there is no treatment available for those taking this gene altering ‘vaccine’ and their life expectancy will be reduced to 2-5 years.

    Ironic that Ron, the ultimate Conspiracy Theorist, labels those like myself who have taken all the previous vaccinations, crazy anti-vax conspiracy theorists. But Deagel’s depopulation targets, carved onto the Georgia Guidestones in 1979, cannot be achieved though COVID alone, biowarfare or not, as COVID has a survival rate of 99%. The desired 500m slaves the elites want can only be achieved by the RNA ‘vaccine’, so under no circumstances will we be taking it. (see http://www.rense.com)

    • Agree: JasonT
  412. lysias says:
    @Skeptikal

    Hitler, many Nazis, and the German medical establishment opposed tobacco long before doctors in the U.S. did.

    • Agree: Raches
    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  413. lysias says:
    @acementhead

    Fauci has indeed admitted that he takes Vitamin D supplements, but where has he encouraged others to do so? And I think he only admitted it when he was asked about it.

  414. Raches says:
    @Boomthorkell

    Terribly sorry to bother you with this…but could you explain how to use “Pinpoint Quoting”, or direct me to a location where this could be explained?

    No bother—happy to help. View the HTML source of the article. Find the paragraph that you wish to pinpoint; in some browsers, there is an easy way to select text on the page, right-click on the selection, and view the source in pertinent part. What you want looks like this:

    <p class="container" id="p_1_63" wcount="155"><span class"contents">Bendersky makes no mention of Oliver, which is unfortunate since […]

    Take the value of the “id” attribute, and use a hash character to append it as the fragment part of the URL:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-secrets-of-military-intelligence/#p_1_63

    There may be an easier way. If so, I missed it!

    This only works with article text, not comments.

    If you wish to discuss HTML here, you will need to escape the < and (I think in some contexts?) & characters: &lt; for <, and &amp; for &. I do not know any way to stop the comment software being fancy with quotes and dashes, other than perhaps to use HTML escapes for them, too (&quot; for " as I did above); this may be relevant, if anything gets posted that can be copied and pasted as code.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  415. @Ultrafart the Brave

    I call BS on these hospitals allegedly “running out of ICU beds”.

    Are you saying the hospital directors are lying?

    Did the hospital in Hawaii that ran out of beds put up a triage tent as part of that lie? Is this tent real?
    https://www.queens.org/about-us/news-story?&news=509

    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
  416. Doctor M says:

    I am a lurker that usually never comments. But in this case I will add my observations, since they may perhaps be of interest to some.

    BACK STORY
    * I live in central Gothenburg, Sweden. Not London or New York for sure, but a city with say 750 000 inhabitants (in an urban region of some 1.8 million people).
    * I am 46 years, married with two children, working as a professor at a technical university.
    * I know several doctors. My neighbor is a nurse who worked with covid patients during spring2020. Also, my primary education was in chemical engineering and from this time I know many people that has worked for AstraZeneca, who have one of their main research centers here in Gothenburg.
    * So, while I am no medical doctor I think I have above average insight and I know math, statistics and science better than most (I have written or coauthored >100 scientific papers and received >5000 citations).

    SWEDEN’S INFAMOUS COVID RESPONSE
    There have been much confusion about this in international media. Much that has been written has been embarrassing and total crap. I would say that the details that has impacted normal life has been primary:
    * Capped indoor events (30-500 people) which has affected mainly spectator sports such as ice hockey and culture events such as theaters and concerts
    * Schools (from about 13 years of age) and universities have during certain periods been using mainly (but not exclusively) online teaching
    * To the best of my knowledge night clubs have not been open (at least not during winter season)
    * Aside from the points above there has at times been varying minor random recommendations such as for example max 4-8 people seated indoor at each table in restaurants, no alcohol served after 10 pm, maximum number of people in shops etc. This has been confusing and annoying but it has not really been enforced (as far as I know).
    * Mask use has never been above 1%. For example, the only mask users I have seen in my division (80 people) have been 2 PhD students from China (and both stopped after a while).
    * During nov2020-feb2021 it was ‘recommended’ to use mask on mass transit (trams, buses etc). Compliance may have peaked at about 30-40% for a few weeks. It has been 0% for many months now.
    * Propaganda level have been annoying but (compared to what I hear from other countries) extremely mild. During spring 2020 there were press conferences 4 times a week. They were reduced to 1-2 times a week in summer 2020. Now there have been very little about covid in media for several months.
    * Track and trace was given up on early, judged impossible when community spread was established.
    * Testing seems to have been free and presumably on average European level. My impression is that it is perhaps 20% of the population that has taken >95% of the tests.

    [MORE]

    MY IMPRESSION ABOUT SOCIETAL IMPACT
    * Covid hit care homes like a hammer march2020-april2020.
    * April2020 was the deadliest April ever recorded in Sweden. This I think is quite solid evidence that there really was an unusual virus here at the time. The impact was not as horrifying as it sounds though since Sweden normally gets infection deaths in January-March. In fact, April2020 was only about the 15th deadliest month the past 20 years.
    * Our city’s somewhat degraded healthcare system managed the spring2020 peak decently anyway. However, a lot of routine healthcare activities was postponed march2020-may2020.
    * Since the spring2020 peak things have been rather normal on the hospitals, to the best of my understanding. Winter apparently was sort of ‘above average flue’.
    * Median age of death in Sweden was 86(!!!) years.
    * Statistically, 2020 was the least deadly year on record for people <65 years in Sweden
    * 'Excess death' for 2020 for Sweden as a whole have been calculated to anything between 0-7%, depending on how you weight the numbers. Raw data suggests 4-5%. For 2021 there does not seem to be any 'net excess death' at all.
    * Approval rate if policies have been high. According to polls about 2/3 of the population is in favor, while the remaining 1/3 is evenly divided between lockdown and no restrictions whatsoever. I know of no single individual that has been longing for more restrictions.

    VACCINE SITUATION
    * Astra (of AstraZeneca) is a Swedish company, so it is no surprise that their vaccine was used in Sweden. After much confusion about the blood clot issue, it was largely phased out after some weeks.
    * Instead the most used vaccine in Sweden have been Pfizer.
    * While there have been much official encouragement to vaccinate and stuff like 'drive-in vaccination' have been arranged for, the situation have not been remotely as bizarre as in other European countries.
    * Vaccine uptake seems to be the same as in comparable European countries (say Denmark, Germany). So, the totally neurotic policies of these countries does not seem to helped them one bit.

    IMPACT ON ME PERSONALLY
    * I worked from home march2020-may2020 (but my PhD students that needed to do experiments work on site)
    * I returned to work from june2020. I would say that about 50% of the staff still works mostly from home, but this is a university after all.
    * My children did not miss a single day in school due to covid and there have been no sick children or teachers that I know of (there are 800 pupils at their school).
    * Neither me or my children have had any covid test. My wife have had one test (some oral variant, it was negative)
    * I have carried a face mask once for 30 seconds. I was given it at the veterinary when doing an annual check with my cat. Since most of the personell did not use masks I removed it and no one bothered.
    * I know about perhaps 20-30 people who have tested positive. No one I know about have been seriously sick or at hospital.
    * One of my neighbors know one person that was hospitalized during the spring wave, as do my mother. Both were 70+ and survived. I have not heard about anyone who knows anyone that has died.
    * Neither me, my wife or our children have had or will have any covid vax. None of us are 'anti-vaxxers' but for us it clearly would make little sense. You don't inject experimentally shots from big pharma for a disease that does not look very dangerous. That's just plain stupid! Before covid, none of our age and health profile would have bothered with e.g. flue shots. That said, our parents are vaxxed and for them it may make some sense (to me it looks like the vaxxes may at least provide short term benefits, which may be fine if you are 70+ and worried).

    CONCLUSION
    * While covid probably is an above average respiratory virus, I have seen absolutely nothing that suggest that covid is some strange bioweapon or very much to worry about at all.
    * While there are many things to criticize with the 'Swedish approach', I must confess that living here at the moment feels like dodging a bullet! I know people in many European countries, where whole populations seems to have gone clinically insane.
    * How did this happen in Sweden of all countries? I believe that the two main reasons are legal and pure luck. From a legal point of view much of what has been applied in other countries is just impossible to do in Sweden (free movement and no national emergency laws in peace time are in our constitution, showing the immense value of such dusty old documents). The luck factor is that the people that happened to be in charge (e.g. prime minister Löven, health chief Carlzon, state epidemiologist Tegnell) are all old farts without twitter accounts. I did not vote for Löven and none of the trio mentioned may be super competent. But if there instead would have been a bunch of 37 years old social media warriors in charge, then I am sure that things might have looked quite different.
    * Still, Sweden is to the west what Albania was to the Soviet Union. Also, I would very much like to travel to other countries again without all the craziness. So, my message to the world would be to please wake up and smell the coffee. Covid may not be a very nice virus, but at least this professor things it is the most overrated event ever…

  417. @Wild Man

    And that is the overall globalist plan (and has been for decades now). Don’t be a putz, and turn your head away from what is occuring all around you now.

    So if I support the vaccines I am a globalist? What about anti-vaxxers that switch sides after getting the virus? Are they also globalists?

    What about nationalists in Eastern Europe that support the vaccines and are despised by globalists? Were they actually globalists the whole time? This doesn’t make any sense.

    This ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated’ meme you keep promoting ….. come now Mr. Johnson … surely you see through that?

    It’s not a meme. Hospitals in the southern states are filled with the unvaccinated.

    I’ve seen about 10 videos now of anti-vaxxers in the hospital that feel stupid for not getting the vaccine. Are they a meme? Seems like they are real people that feel like they made a serious mistake.

    It must be strange taking a side where you have 100% turnover of your leaders when they experience what they claim doesn’t exist or has been exaggerated. I’ve actually never come across a debate where it is 100% inevitable that people switch once they experience what they were warned about. How can you have confidence in your side knowing that even the most determined anti-vaxxer will switch if hospitalized?

    • Replies: @Raches
    , @Wild Man
  418. fredtard says:
    @MarkU

    I’ve mentioned on past threads that Phase 3 clinical trials for all the vaccines on the CDC’s childhood immunization schedule used active (as opposed to inert) placebos on the control groups. Typically, the “placebo” consists of everything in the cocktail (called excipients), including adjuvants, except for the disease antigen. Or, a previously-approved vaccine with very similar excipients is the “placebo.”

    And Pfizer and Moderna allowed (encouraged?) their control group subjects to take the jabs shortly after the EUAs were granted. So, no control groups.

    Seems no effort is spared to compromise control groups in vaccine research.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  419. @Ron Unz

    Against my better judgment I suppose I’ll have to republish this comment, as I’ve done about a dozen times before:

    But here’s a listing of TOTAL American deaths from all causes over the last few years, taken directly from the CDC website:

    2014: 2,626,418
    2015: 2,712,630
    2016: 2,744,248
    2017: 2,813,503
    2018: 2,839,205
    2019: 2,854,838
    2020: 3,384,426

    You’ll notice that the numbers are fairly steady until 2020 when they suddenly jumped by well over 500,000.

    If I didn’t know any better, I’d almost think that America had been struck by a dangerous disease epidemic that year.

    It’s obviously just a matter of personal opinion whether an extra half-million deaths in 2020 is a big number or a small number…

    Against my better judgment I suppose I’ll have to republish this comment, as I’ve done before:
    Let’s look at those stats.
    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/Leading-Causes-of-Death-for-2015-2020.pdf

    COVID-19§ — — — — — 345,323
    So not 500,000 more, but still high. But was does that footnote say?
    §Deaths with confirmed or presumed COVID-19

    So maybe not that high. Many counties simply match death certificates with lists of those who showed positive with COVID and report them as COVID deaths. Not that COVID caused their death, but they died “with” COVID.

    For example, these two cite cases where people reported as killed by vaccines, but had COVID, so were listed as COVID deaths:

    https://odysee.com/@DarkHorsePodcastClips:b/Vaccine-hazards-from-CDC-VAERS:2

    But what also caused this spike in deaths? Two categories are of interest given that COVID jabs may cause strokes and heart attacks. Note that jabs didn’t begin until December.

    Heart disease 633,842 635,260 647,457 655,381 659,041 690,882
    Last year these deaths jumped by over 30,000, many times more than previous years.

    Stroke 140,323 142,142 146,383 147,810 150,005 159,050
    Last year these deaths jumped by over 9000, around three times more than previous years.

    Why? If one is thinking about getting a first jab, or getting the recommended booster (if the FDA approves them) one might wait until the CDCs 2021 death stats are published and take a peek because as I’ve noted, if a jab causes a stroke or heart attack weeks later, the death will not be blamed on the jab.

    • Thanks: John Wear
  420. @John Wear

    If Kary Mullis, the inventor of the RT-PCR test who conveniently died in August 2019, said his test shouldn’t be used to diagnose infectious diseases—Why use it to detect SARS-CoV-2?

    … because they went to all the trouble of patenting the COVID-19 PCR test way back in 2015, and manufactured and sold so many millions of these COVID-19 PCR tests all around the world way back in 2017, what else were they going to use them for?

    The “COVID-19 PCR Testing Kits” Were Patented in 2015, Sold Around the World in 2017

    https://survivalblog.science.blog/2021/07/06/ultimate-proof-covid-19-was-planned/

    • Thanks: John Wear
  421. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Raches

    If Authoritarians Taught Self Help!:

    “Regards” onebornfree

  422. Anon[244] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    @ Those virologists must acknowledge that some diseases were successfully eradicated and/or controlled by universal vaccination programs

    They do.

    Mass vaccination during a pandemic/epidemic is distinct from systematic vaccination when a disease is endemic (exists but not widely circulating). Let’s stay on the first scenario.

    I’ve posted this before, a translation, with minimal cleaning for the sake of clarity, of an interview with Christian Velot about mutation pressures with mass vaccination during pandemic:
    https://www.francesoir.fr/societe-sante/5-minutes-pour-comprendre-pourquoi-vacciner-les-jeunes-est-une-mauvaise-idee-christien-velot

    CV: Today, we are in a policy of systematic vaccination of everyone, we started with the more frail ones, which is OK, and now we want to vaccinate the younger ones, from 12 years old. It is a huge mistake, a strategic mistake.

    Q: Strategic from medical or individual perspective?

    CV: Both. Medical without doubt. But here, the medical act is the consequence of a political decision.

    Q: Could the “medical” mistake be from the point of view of the individual, the “strategic” one from the point of view of public health?

    CV: Both, the medical mistake contains both (individual health+ public health). It is a strategic mistake because there was a political decision; we had a War Counsel or whatever it’s called, where everything is decided behind closed doors, decisions which are huge mistakes. This morning I heard on the TV everyone talking blindly that vaccination was the solution. Let’s admit that it is.. and let’s admit that the vaccines are sufficiently safe..let’s put that hypothesis on the table. But to the contrary, mass vaccination in times of a pandemic is a mistake. Why? Because during a pandemic, the virus is in circulation. If the virus is in circulation, variants will arise, whether they are recombinants or mutations. This variants are not a problem except if they escape the immunity (of the vaccine). If we are doing mass vaccination, the original strain is going to be halted, because the vaccine will block it, since the vaccine is effective against the original strain. So, this original strain cannot compete anymore against the variants. And the variants have free rain. I was telling you this example at the beginning.. (..) we are in an ecosystem, like the bacterias in our digestive system.. if we eliminate those bacteria, or we have an upheaval in our digestive flora, or vaginal flora, then often little bacterias or fungus take over, and you get infections.

    So, competition is necessary. For example, in hospitals where we use many antibiotics, which is understandable, BUT there are bacterias that have become resistant to antibiotics, like gold staphylococcus or streptococcus. These are resistant to the majority of antibiotics currently in use. Suddenly, these bacteria have free rein, they don’t have other bacteria overshadowing them, they can proliferate and be responsible for nosocomial disease. So, what are we doing vaccinating massively during a pandemic? We are blocking the original strain that cannot overshadow (compete) with the variants. It means that what we are doing with the vaccines, as regards Covid19, what we have done with the bacteria in the hospital. We must not vaccinate massively.

    If, if everybody was the victim of this virus (Covid19), and this virus was truly deadly, that killed people rapidly, well then it would be understandable to try and vaccinate everyone. But here it is not the case. Young people are mostly asymptomatic, they don’t get sick. We should profit from that! It’s a godsend! We should let the original virus circulate in the young, and overshadow the variants.

    Imagine a variant arises, more deadly than Delta. It’s possible, I don’t want to be a bird of bad omen, but it’s possible to fear that. Imagine that it is so deadly, that it attacks everyone, including young people. Well since the young are also vaccinated, that virus can also attack them and everyone.

    Once the pandemic is over, yes indeed why not vaccinate everyone if the vaccine was shown to be effective. But not in a period of pandemic, where it is necessary to leave the original virus circulate, through people who are not at risk.”(END)

    Here’s two articles with different approaches to the argument, the first from a pro-vaccine crowd:

    https://www.rfi.fr/en/risk-of-vaccine-resistant-variants-highest-when-most-jabbed-study

    https://beyondtheoptics.substack.com/p/the-unvaccinated-low-risk-and-the

    Have you looked into the possibility of Delta favoring the vaccinated? 76% of cases in Singapur were vaccinated.. most of the population is vaccinated but still. (Which is not to say that the vaccinated have higher hospitalization rates. It seems vaccinated have 2% vs unvaccinated 9%).

    • Replies: @utu
  423. @Ron Unz

    Perhaps Covid got a lot of the ‘low hanging fruit’, the very elderly or immuno compromised. It may have pulled some deaths forward – deaths that now won’t happen this year or next.

  424. anaccount says:

    I apologize to Ron but I just fucking hate vax people, it’s visceral. If it wasn’t for you vax mutants shilling this poison our institutions wouldn’t be able to mandate this shit. You can all mutate and die or just choke on your faggot mask. Either will do.

  425. Raches says:
    @John Johnson

    Mr. Johnson, you should work in advertising. Do you work in advertising?

    [Wild Man says:] This ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated’ meme you keep promoting ….. come now Mr. Johnson … surely you see through that?

    It’s not a meme. Hospitals in the southern states are filled with the unvaccinated.

    Although at this point, I am not inclined to take your unsupported word for anything, this is plausible enough. Unlike some of the zealots here, I have never downplayed the actual severity of Covid; I have also never tolerated scaremongering about it, which tends to compound the problem rather than to mitigate it.

    So, I will assume arguendo that “hospitals in the southern states are filled with the unvaccinated”. How many of them are also die-hard anti-maskers? How many of them are also generally careless about washing hands? I could much extend this list of questions; but that will suffice for the sake of argument.

    What you really may have is a “pandemic of the anti-maskers”, or “pandemic of careless people who think they can’t get sick”—with some percentage of the sick being exceptions who were just unlucky. You have no idea. You just assume that all of these sick people took non-vaccination preventative measures, and those measures failed. I am pretty sure that you would not buy the anti-vaxxer logical equivalent of your argument: Because some vaccinated people get unlucky, vaccines are totally useless.

    Causality confusion check: You are muddying the waters between multiple potential causes, which are not mutually exclusive. Unvaccinated anti-maskers are undoubtedly at much higher risk than unvaccinated people who wear masks in appropriate circumstances (plus more likely to spread Covid). In your attempt to work backwards from your predetermined conclusion, in support an hypothesis that you assumed true, you are not even trying to isolate one variable among many confounding variables. Please tell me that you work in advertising, and not in vaccine development: If you were involved in the development of these vaccines, then I should assuredly avoid them like plague.

    Or do you say that masks don’t work, etc., etc.? That is the unavoidable implication of ascribing all of this to vaccination status, when you know as well as I do that many (not all) anti-vaxxers are also anti-maskers: Masks have zero or negligible effect. If that is what you are saying, then I disagree.

    (I repeat that the foregoing assumes for the sake of argument Mr. Johnson’s assertion that hospitals are full of the unvaccinated. I can assume his stated premise as to fact, and his argument still implodes.)

    I’ve seen about 10 videos now of anti-vaxxers in the hospital that feel stupid for not getting the vaccine. Are they a meme? Seems like they are real people that feel like they made a serious mistake.

    If the plural of “anecdote” is not “data”, what is the plural of “testimonial” not?

    I think that if I were to waste my time searching, I could probably find 10 videos of people who feel stupid for not taking vitamin megadoses (or cocaine) to prevent Covid. What would that prove? It’s noise.

    Anyway, you know how I sneer about “video peasants” when anti-vaxxers post stupid videos in circumstances where a video is neither entertaining nor required. What should I do when someone only talks about videos, without even showing them?

    It mu