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For many years I had predicted to my friends that the increasingly bizarre and incompetent behavior of America’s ruling elites might soon result in a major “negative discontinuity” for our unfortunate country, the sort of massive event that future authors would use to divide one section of a thick history textbook from the next.

I couldn’t quite say what form that “discontinuity” might take, but I suggested possibilities along the lines of another Great Depression or some huge social upheaval or perhaps even a world war. The notion of an uncontrolled disease epidemic never crossed my mind, but our Covid-19 outbreak—together with the totally incompetent governmental response and the resulting social and economic disaster—seems to fit the bill quite nicely, even producing a triple-header of national calamities.

Or perhaps a quadruple-header. Although a world war still seems distant, the recent demonization of China, a bipartisan project of Democrats and Republicans alike, has already been labeled a new Cold War by leading journalistic observers, and cold wars can easily turn hot. Just a couple of weeks ago, American provocations in the vicinity of Chinese military exercises led the Chinese to respond by test-firing several of their vaunted “carrier-killer” missiles, weapons widely believed capable of immediately sending any of our primary power-projection platforms to the bottom of the ocean.

For three generations, the US has carefully avoided any military conflict with a near-peer, but that traditional forbearance may now have been replaced by extreme recklessness. Many of our cities have been set aflame in urban rioting, we have seen a huge spike in violent crime, and massive unemployment continues. So if the incumbent’s poll numbers look bleak as Election Day nears, a political October Surprise of major sabre-rattling and brinksmanship seems quite possible, and a sudden misstep might then put us at war in the South China Sea.

Chinese anti-carrier ballistic missiles have been developed to prevent an American blockade of their vital offshore waters, and many analysts doubt we have any effective defense. The loss of a carrier would mean thousands of American deaths and the possible collapse of our perceived control of the world’s sea lanes, perhaps ending the dollar’s long reign as the world’s reserve currency and thereby massively impoverishing our citizenry. A frantic American government might react by escalating to nuclear weapons, with horrific and unforeseeable consequences.

Greatly increasing this risk of war has been the very dangerous public game played for months by the Trump Administration and its political allies. The response of America’s national government to the Covid-19 outbreak was among the worst and most incompetent in the world, with only India and Brazil challenging our place at the bottom of the charts, and it is difficult to imagine a worse political nightmare for an incumbent during a presidential election year. The widespread national lockdowns produced an unprecedented spike in business failures and unemployment, which have only temporarily been mitigated by raising our national debt to levels last seen at the close of the Second World War.

Under such difficult circumstances, even the most sober and cautious of political leaders would naturally seek some desperate means of diverting blame elsewhere, and no one has ever accused our current president of such sobriety. So it was hardly surprising that for weeks during the peak of the New York outbreak and the early national lockdowns, Trump and his top officials explicitly suggested that the deadly virus had come from a Wuhan lab, thus accusing the Chinese government of being responsible for our deaths and economic disaster, with such charges being widely echoed in the media.

Although that public war of words has now subsided, the impact still remains. According to a poll taken at the end of April, a remarkable 45% of Americans believed that the deadly virus had “probably” or “definitely” originated in such a laboratory, with 74% of Republicans having that belief. Consider that nearly 200,000 Americans have already died and our business economy has suffered trillions of dollars in losses. Most great wars have been launched on merely a sliver of such justification.

This is an exceptionally dangerous situation, and we would naturally expect that our leading national publications would devote enormous resources to carefully investigating such dramatic charges and perhaps refuting them, especially given that their editorial staffs so greatly loathe the current occupant of the White House.

It sometimes seems like every edition of my morning New York Times includes one or more headlines screaming the phrase “Trump lied”, generally with reference to some casually insulting Tweet about a leading Democrat. But the Great Satan’s public accusation that the Chinese government has been directly responsible for the deaths of nearly 200,000 American deaths seems to have received far less scrutiny. Both the Wall Street Journal and the Times have published investigative reports on some of these issues, but these have been extremely deferential in their coverage, and anyway lacked the depth and detail that is so clearly warranted.

A natural venue for serious investigative journalism would be the prestigious national magazines that have traditionally provided long-form reporting, with The Atlantic and The New York Times Sunday Magazine being the most obvious possibilities. But these publications have increasingly shifted their focus to “wokeness” and seem to believe that the investigative research necessary to help deflect a world war with China has far less importance than a soulful piece on the emotional plight of transgendered black rappers.

Fortunately, the ease of Internet publishing has allowed the creation of a multitude of new webzine outlets, able to fill the gaps created by the increased frivolity and irrelevance of their established predecessors. The emerging landscape of alternative media is a broad one, with individual publications possessing different strengths and weaknesses. For example, our own webzine has very high traffic but is among the most controversial and therefore one of the least likely to be mentioned in mainstream outlets.

Situated at the opposite end of this spectrum is Quillette. Launched in 2015 by former mainstream journalist Claire Lehmann, this webzine is sufficiently respectable that few journalists or academics would fear any association. Establishing such respectability is merely a means toward an end, and Quillette has now justified that effort many times over by publishing a remarkable four-part series analyzing the wider Covid-19 accusations against China. The author, Philippe Lemoine is a Cornell graduate student originally from France and his exhaustive 31,000 word opus might once have appeared as the cover-story of one of our leading national publications prior to their lapse into decadence. I have seen nothing else so comprehensive on that subject, and I would strongly recommend that the articles be read by everyone interested in this important topic.

 

Attempting to summarize over 30,000 words in just a couple of paragraphs is a hopeless undertaking that I will not attempt. But the author seems to follow proper scholarly methods, carefully evaluating the often conflicting sources and applying a good deal of logic and common sense. In some cases he draws clear conclusions, but more often he properly settles for reasonable likelihoods rather than anything stronger.

In reading this analysis I was repeatedly struck by the extremely flimsy nature of the evidence being used to indict China. One of the most widely cited theories implicating the Wuhan lab was apparently based upon nothing more than unsubstantiated social media rumors, while a major article in National Review doctored its central quotes by leaving out sentences that completely changed their meaning. In recent years our media has fiercely ridiculed those lunatic conspiracy-mongers who claim that most of our mass-shootings have been media hoaxes perpetrated by “crisis actors” or that “nobody died at Sandy Hook.” But much of the main evidence pointing to Chinese culpability for the worldwide Covid-19 disaster appears just as vacuous.

Lemoine seems a very cautious writer and he carefully avoids contaminating his important analysis by suggesting any bad faith or fraud in the work he is examining, but given the history of the last couple of decades we can hardly ignore that possibility. Our disastrous Iraq War was promoted by the knowingly-false claims of Saddam’s WMDs, and the equally farcical Russiagate Hoax has roiled American politics for more than three years. Governmental intelligence agencies have great resources and expertise in fabricating evidence and then effectively promoting their concoctions through their network of friendly journalists. We should hardly be surprised if such means had been employed to redirect the political blame for a multi-trillion-dollar global catastrophe.

Lemoine handles even more delicate matters extremely well. The WSJ had already established that the national health authorities in China only learned of the growing Wuhan disease outbreak at the very end of December, and he persuasively argues that their local counterparts in that city had only become aware a few days earlier. But in Part I of his series, he also includes a discordant early paragraph mentioning that multiple US Intelligence sources had disclosed to ABC News that in late November a unit of our own Defense Intelligence Agency had distributed a secret report describing a “cataclysmic” disease outbreak taking place in Wuhan, warning our military forces stationed in East Asia to take appropriate health precautions. Lemoine correctly notes that the claims “made no sense” since “there is simply no way US intelligence could have known that an epidemic was underway at the time.” Therefore, he concludes that the report never existed and that the leaks were false information provided by enemies of Donald Trump in an effort to embarrass the president.

But as an extremely diligent researcher he surely must be aware that Israeli TV had independently confirmed the existence of that secret DIA report, disclosing that it had been widely distributed both to their own government and to our NATO allies. However, if Lemoine had acknowledged the reality that our intelligence agencies were fully aware of the Wuhan outbreak more than a month before anyone in China, the obvious implications would be too explosive to avoid considering. And any such discussion would have ensured that his very important 31,000 word series never appeared in any respectable venue. But by including that crucial paragraph, he may at least have begun to raise questions in the minds of his establishmentarian readers.

An effective media strategy may often require a division of labor, with different horses for different courses. Given that my own writings and webzine lack the “mainstream respectability” of Quillette, I can be much more candid in my analyses, and will once again repeat a few of the crucial paragraphs I had first published back in April:

But with the horrific consequences of our own later governmental inaction being obvious, elements within our intelligence agencies have sought to demonstrate that they were not the ones asleep at the switch. Earlier this month, an ABC News story cited four separate government sources to reveal that as far back as late November, a special medical intelligence unit within our Defense Intelligence Agency had produced a report warning that an out-of-control disease epidemic was occurring in the Wuhan area of China, and widely distributed that document throughout the top ranks of our government, warning that steps should be taken to protect US forces based in Asia. After the story aired, a Pentagon spokesman officially denied the existence of that November report, while various other top level government and intelligence officials refused to comment. But a few days later, Israeli television mentioned that in November American intelligence had indeed shared such a report on the Wuhan disease outbreak with its NATO and Israeli allies, thus seeming to independently confirm the complete accuracy of the original ABC News story and its several government sources.

It therefore appears that elements of the Defense Intelligence Agency were aware of the deadly viral outbreak in Wuhan more than a month before any officials in the Chinese government itself. Unless our intelligence agencies have pioneered the technology of precognition, I think this may have happened for the same reason that arsonists have the earliest knowledge of future fires.

As the coronavirus gradually began to spread beyond China’s own borders, another development occurred that greatly multiplied my suspicions. Most of these early cases had occurred exactly where one might expect, among the East Asian countries bordering China. But by late February Iran had become the second epicenter of the global outbreak. Even more surprisingly, its political elites had been especially hard-hit, with a full 10% of the entire Iranian parliament soon infected and at least a dozen of its officials and politicians dying of the disease, including some who were quite senior. Indeed, Neocon activists on Twitter began gleefully noting that their hatred Iranian enemies were now dropping like flies.

Let us consider the implications of these facts. Across the entire world the only political elites that have yet suffered any significant human losses have been those of Iran, and they died at a very early stage, before significant outbreaks had even occurred almost anywhere else in the world outside China. Thus, we have America assassinating Iran’s top military commander on Jan. 2nd and then just a few weeks later large portions of the Iranian ruling elites became infected by a mysterious and deadly new virus, with many of them soon dying as a consequence. Could any rational individual possibly regard this as a mere coincidence?

Addendum: The Hypothetical Scenario of the Covid-19 Outbreak:

Since various commenters have posed questions regarding my reconstruction of the Covid-19 outbreak, it’s probably best for me to provide a summary of my own theory, already included in a lengthy comment a couple of weeks ago, but sufficiently important to be made part of the main text. Obviously, this reconstruction is quite speculative, but I think it best fits all the available evidence. Individual components can be changed or replaced without necessarily damaging the overall hypothesis.

(1) Rogue elements within our large national security apparatus probably affiliated with the Deep State Neocons decided to inflict severe damage upon the huge Chinese economy using biowarfare. The plan was to infect the key transport hub of Wuhan with Covid-19 so that the disease would invisibly spread throughout the entire country during the annual Lunar New Year travels, using the cover of the Wuhan International Military Games to slip a couple of operatives into the city to release the contagion. My guess is that only a relatively small number of individuals were involved in this plot.

(2) The biological agent they released was designed primarily as an anti-economy rather than an anti-personnel weapon. Although Covid-19 has rather low fatality rates, it is extremely contagious, has a long pre-symptomatic infectious period, and can even spread by asymptomatic carriers, making it ideally suited for that purpose. Thus, once it established itself throughout most of China, it would be extremely difficult to eradicate and the resulting efforts to control it would inflict enormous damage upon China’s economy and society.

(3) As a secondary operation, they decided to target Iran’s political elites, possibly deploying a somewhat more deadly variant of the virus. Since political elites generally tend to be elderly, they would anyway suffer far greater fatalities.

(4) The deadly SARS and MERS outbreaks in East Asia and the Near East had never significantly spread back to America (or Europe), so the plotters wrongly assumed that the same would be the case with Covid-19. Anyway, since international organizations always ranked the US and Europe as having the best and most effective public health systems for combating any disease epidemic, they believed that any possible blowback damage would be very minor.

(5) Only a small number of individuals were directly involved in this plot, and soon after the disease was successfully released in Wuhan, they decided to further safeguard America’s own interests by alerting the appropriate units with the Defense Intelligence Agency, probably by fabricating some sort of supposed “intelligence leak.” Basically, they arranged for the DIA to hear that Wuhan was apparently suffering a “cataclysmic” disease outbreak, thereby leading the DIA to prepare and distribute a secret report warning our own forces and allies to take appropriate precautions.

(6) Unfortunately for these plans, the Chinese government reacted with astonishing determination and effectiveness, and soon stamped out the disease. Meanwhile, the lackadaisical and incompetent American government largely ignored the problem, only reacting after the massive outbreak in Northern Italy had gotten their attention. Since the CDC had botched production of a testing kit, we had no means of recognizing that the disease was already spreading in our country, and the result was massive damage to America’s economy and society. In effect, America suffered exactly the fate that had originally been intended for its Chinese rival.

(7) Again, this is my own hypothetical reconstruction, and people are free to dispute individual elements. But I think it best fits with the very limited amount of solid evidence. My long article from April fleshes out the China/America background in much greater detail:

Related Articles:

 
The China/America Series
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  1. peterike says:

    What bosh.

    As long as Trump is President, the chance of war with China is zero. In a Biden Presidency, all bets are off.

    The response of America’s national government to the Covid-19 outbreak was among the worst and most incompetent in the world,

    Even worse bosh. Like happened with Lion of the Blogosphere, I believe that Jewish hypochondria has resulted in Ron losing all rationality around Covid. Normally a very rational person, he is simply terrified of the big, bad ‘rona. Older people may recall that Jewish hypochondria was for a long time a mainstay of Jewish comedy (see early Woody Allen for some examples). Like any good comedy, it was funny because it was true.

    Even now, when we KNOW that Covid is a fat nothing burger — the “just the flu bro” crowd was 100% correct — Ron clings to his neurotic obsession with it, and now its spilling over into geo-politics.

    Sad.

  2. I did not read Ron Unz’s previous article on the origin of the COVID 19 pandemic. But if he’s suggesting the virus originated in a place like Fort Detrick and was distributed in Wuhan by NATO-associated agents at a time when that city was hosting an international military convention then he is more than likely correct. In addition to the convention cover, Wuhan was also seeing the return of thousands of its citizens who work in the textile industry in northern Italy. The Chinese expatriates returned to their jobs in Italy infected with a particularly virulent strain of the virus.

    • Agree: Tom Welsh, Rahan
    • Disagree: VinnyVette
  3. Ephemeral says:

    Lemoine correctly notes that the claims “made no sense” since “there is simply no way US intelligence could have known that an epidemic was underway at the time.” Therefore, he concludes that the report never existed and that the leaks were false information provided by enemies of Donald Trump in an effort to embarrass the president.

    Have you contacted Lemoine for comments regarding the Israeli TV “independently confirm[ing]” the report?

    I am curious to his take

    • Agree: Saggy, Tor597
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  4. . . . a soulful piece on the emotional blight of transgendered black rappers.

    Who knows the sound of one Freud laughing?

    • LOL: Frankie P
  5. Due to the uncontrollable and unpredictable nature of this novel virus (and to where and whom it could spread), it would seem absurdly reckless for any state actor to deliberately unleash this unmanageable pathogen upon the world.

    But if any government(s) were to pursue such an extreme and ruthless path, it could very possibly be rogue cells within the US and/or Israeli deep (and dark) states.

    Unlike China, these two cultures contain countless souls who are obsessed with world domination and who embrace religious fantasies about End Times, rebuilt temples, ‘God’s will’, fulfilling ancient prophesies, and the reappearance of a Jewish messiah.

    Fantasy and fanaticism are baked into Zio-America’s messianic and supremacist DNA. These are the building blocks of political extremism.

  6. Re “… that arsonists have the earliest knowledge of future fires. “: Wall Street and other get-rich-easily predators recognize that as example of a true “insider”, who is both the author and actor in a scheme.

    Learning “insider” data from another source, however trusted, is a close rival of a true insider.

  7. S says:

    Although a world war still seems distant, the recent demonization of China, a bipartisan project of Democrats and Republicans alike, has already been labeled a new Cold War by leading journalistic observers, and cold wars can easily turn hot.

    A lot of parallels with a hundred years ago.

    Today we have a global pandemic, the Coronavirus, just as a hundred years ago they had the Spanish flu.

    Today, following a potential near term Red October 2.0 event, the United States could very well be on the cusp of a vicious Russian style Civil War, a war which other nations might attempt to intervene in.

    Early in Russia’s Civil War, the Russian army was still engaged in a world war.

    The United States could well replay that scenario, ie though in a state of civil war, simultaneously entering into a world war, either by attacking, and, or, being attacked.

    My guess, in such a scenario, it’s already been determined which US carriers will be sunk in the world war, which cities will be nuked, and which won’t be, and which cities will be proclaimed ‘Hero City’s’ in Russia, etc.

    It’s all been arranged.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  8. BobX says:

    Given the failure of our response as a measure of our incompetence it does make me question things, but it seems a reach to far to me that some deep state actors unknown to the official chain of command initiated a biological attack with a virus we had no vaccine for. Did the secret deep state cabal with such competence they can hide from the official chain of command then allow 100s of thousands of our fellow citizens to die a part of the cover up? They valued the attack so much the risk to themselves was no concern? They are already protected with their secret vaccine?

    They are too incompetent to plan for blowback of a biological attack, but they are so competent as to do this all unknown to the official chain of command. it does not wash.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Erebus
    , @jsigur
  9. utu says:

    On PHILIPPE LEMOINE’s blog an expanded version of his Quillette article is available.

    “The version on Quillette is more polished and a bit less polemical, but this one has more technical details on some issues, so which version you should read depends on what you’re looking for.”

    https://necpluribusimpar.net

    • Thanks: Erebus, Tor597
  10. I suppose it would be beyond the pale to suggest that the latest short book from Arthur Thompson (JBS) , China– The Deep State’s Trojan Horse in America, might meet some of the serious standards that Mr. Unz refers to. Chapter eleven goes into the pandemic with some detail.

  11. utu says:

    I have read his Part II:

    Did China lie about COVID-19? – A story of human-to-human transmission – Part 2
    https://necpluribusimpar.net/did-china-lie-about-covid-19-a-story-of-human-to-human-transmission-part-2/

    in which he tries to establish that China did not know of human-to-human transmission until January 20:

    “Finally, on January 20, the head of a team of experts — who as we shall see had been sent to Wuhan by the National Health Commission on January 19 — announced on television that human-to-human transmission was occurring…”

    Why is it so important for the author? From what I have read so far the author is set to absolve China of any wrongdoings and mistakes like not informing soon enough other countries about the danger of new epidemic. My impression is that absolving China is a chief goal of the author.

    Fortunately he mentions Taiwan’s response that did not trust China form the day one:

    “It’s true that, on December 31, the Taiwanese health authorities started screening passengers from Wuhan, but this doesn’t mean they knew that human-to-human transmission was possible

    And the author doubts Taiwanese intelligence and questions the existence of the email from Taiwan to WHO warning that there was an outbreak of epidemic in China. Yet the Taiwanese government eventually made the email public that confirmed the fact that Taiwan warned WHO about Wuhan before China did.

    Anyway, I am not al all impressed with PHILIPPE LEMOINE. If I were CCP’s propaganda apparatchik PHILIPPE LEMOINE would be the person I would hire.

  12. Ron Unz says:
    @BobX

    Given the failure of our response as a measure of our incompetence it does make me question things, but it seems a reach to far to me that some deep state actors unknown to the official chain of command initiated a biological attack with a virus we had no vaccine for.

    Sure, I’ve repeatedly discussed that reasonable objection at some length, including in my original article:

    When considering the hypothesis of an American biowarfare attack, certain natural objections come to mind. The major drawback to biological warfare has always been the obvious fact that the self-replicating agents employed will not respect national borders, thus raising the serious risk that the disease might eventually return to the land of its origin and inflict substantial casualties. For this reason, it seems very doubtful that any rational and half-competent American leadership would have unleashed the coronavirus against China.

    But as we see absolutely demonstrated in our daily news headlines, America’s current government is grotesquely and manifestly incompetent, more incompetent than one could almost possibly imagine, with tens of thousands of Americans having now already paid with their lives for such extreme incompetence. Rationality and competence are obviously nowhere to be found among the Deep State Neocons that President Donald Trump has appointed to so many crucial positions throughout our national security apparatus.

    Moreover, the extremely lackadaisical notion that a massive coronavirus outbreak in China would never spread back to America might have seemed plausible to individuals who carelessly assumed that past historical analogies would continue to apply. As I wrote a few weeks ago:

    Reasonable people have suggested that if the coronavirus was a bioweapon deployed by elements of the American national security apparatus against China (and Iran), it’s difficult to imagine why the they didn’t assume it would naturally leak back in the US and start a huge pandemic here, as is currently happening.

    The most obvious answer is that they were stupid and incompetent, but here’s another point to consider…

    In late 2002 there was the outbreak of SARS in China, a related virus but that was far more deadly and somewhat different in other characteristics. The virus killed hundreds of Chinese and spread into a few other countries before it was controlled and stamped out. The impact on the US and Europe was negligible, with just a small scattering of cases and only a death or two.

    So if American biowarfare analysts were considering a coronavirus attack against China, isn’t it quite possible they would have said to themselves that since SARS never significantly leaked back into the US or Europe, we’d similarly remain insulated from the coronavirus? Obviously, such an analysis was foolish and mistaken, but would it have seemed so implausible at the time?

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-our-coronavirus-catastrophe-as-biowarfare-blowback/

    Also consider that just a few weeks later, America suddenly assassinated Iran’s top military leader, which also seems like an extremely reckless act.

    It’s a question of weighing relative probabilities. You say it’s quite implausible that rogue elements within our national security apparatus, presumably associated with the Deep State Neocons, would have been so totally reckless as to launch a biowarfare attack against China (and Iran). Well, maybe and maybe not.

    But then how do you explain that our DIA distributed a secret intelligence report to NATO and Israel describing the “cataclysmic” disease outbreak taking place in Wuhan more than a month before anyone in China was aware of it?

  13. Miro23 says:

    It therefore appears that elements of the Defense Intelligence Agency were aware of the deadly viral outbreak in Wuhan more than a month before any officials in the Chinese government itself. Unless our intelligence agencies have pioneered the technology of precognition, I think this may have happened for the same reason that arsonists have the earliest knowledge of future fires.

    This is clear, and not only does it explain the very specific Iran outbreak, but also Covid-19 as part of the orchestrated anti-China package (Huawei, Houston consulate shutdown, South China Sea, trade, Hong Kong, Uyghur oppression etc.).

    If the US is going down anyway (unsustainable debt + losing the dollar reserve) then why not deflect the blame. Introduce a war of a calculated sufficient intensity against China (False Flag it) to justify the suspension of US democracy with the establishment of an Emergency Administration. The process conveniently uses the COG (Continuity of Government) legislation already in place. Assuming no escalation (dangerous assumption), the ZioGlob/CIA dictatorship + their MSM propaganda arm then seriously get to work on domestic opposition. I’ve no doubt that the final aim is a lethal ZioGlob/CIA/Woke US dictatorship.

    Problem that the ZioGlob is simultaneously taking on Russia, China, Anglo-America (non woke part) and most of the Middle East – which seems like a lot – so there’s some margin for error in Crazy World planning. Any one of these conflicts could blow up and run completely out of control.

  14. Ron, you already have an entire article about your idea that the virus didn’t come from China. we don’t need another one.

    Joe Biden and company will be starting the next war. not Trump.

    Democrat states did by far the worst job in the world at reacting to the virus. not Trump.

    new emerging suspicion – stupid, Democrat doctors in stupid, Democrat run New York and New Jersey ended up killing thousands of hospital patients by incorrectly using ventilators on them, making their conditions worse. stupid, Democrat governor of New York already widely acknowledged to have gotten thousands of other, old people killed with his stupid, Democrat policy of sending them to retirement homes.

    newsflash! stupid, Democrat governor of California now presiding over rolling blackouts as well as rolling riots and rolling forest fires. all of them preventable.

    • Disagree: TimeTraveller
    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  15. Drakejax says:

    Theory 1: Deep state/DNC anti-Trumpers conspired with Chinese communists to use COVID to bring down America thus causing Trump to lose the election. Evidence being DNC complicity with CCP (like that spy who was a driver for Feinstein) and the MIT guy charged with colluding with the Wuhan lab. Plus the obviously pre-coordinated Antifa/BLM riots all summer.
    Theory 2: The Israelis did this to attack Iran, and it got out of hand blowing to China and thence the rest of the world.
    Theory 3 is the one Mr. Unz has supported, that Trump was in on it with the rest of the deep state to attack China as part of our trade war, and it blew back on us.
    Theory 4 is the one promulgated in respectable society yet few believe: that a rare bat virus mutated in China and then spread around the world.

    I ordered those theories in my personal rank of most to least likely.

    • Agree: Getaclue
    • Replies: @BobX
    , @brabantian
  16. BobX says:
    @Ron Unz

    I find Scott Adams more convincing on how Trump operates in regard to Soleimani. I think there is one of Scott’s own “Coffee With Scott Adams Podcast” where he talks about this and other Trump actions like the tariffs that seem to defy traditional logic, but where it turns out Trump was right and the traditional logic was wrong. Sorry i don’t have a link to that, but i don’t follow that like I do Steve’s blog.

    https://manifoldlearning.com/episode-047/#transcript

    We head for an election that looks to me to stand a large chance of being undecided and going to the House. Should that happen I think the unrest, riots, and looting of this summer shall look mild. Yet there is Elon putting a rocket into space every couple of weeks to give us hope that perhaps all is not lost. Perhaps God yet has a special providence for fools, drunkards, and the United States of America.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    , @homahr
  17. ShowMe says:
    @utu

    “Yet the Taiwanese government eventually made the email public that confirmed the fact that Taiwan warned WHO about Wuhan before China did.”
    Please provide links to email, dates, and any other supporting information.

    • Replies: @utu
  18. Alden says:

    A few facts, just facts , about covid in America, no opinions.

    1 . average age of death in America both sexes all ethnicities 78.54

    2 . average age of covid deaths in America both sexes all ethnicities 78

    3 . number of Americans who died of covid ALONE, about 9,500 as of last week. 9,500

    4 . number of Americans who died of covid combined with cancer, severe diabetes, pneumonia, vascular cardio problems, COPD, bronchitis, respiratory problems other than COPD combined with covid and old age, about 180,000; or going by Ron’s estimate of 200,000 total covid deaths, 190,000 Americans died from a combination of of old age, serious deadly diseases and covid

    5 . 9,500 deaths from covid alone 190,000 old age other diseases and OLD AGE

    • Agree: VinnyVette
    • Replies: @BobX
  19. BobX says:
    @Drakejax

    I think you misstate Ron’s position on number 3. I think he has explicitly said in the comments of the last one that he does not believe Trump was in on it.

    • Replies: @Drakejax
  20. Erebus says:
    @BobX

    … it seems a reach to far to me that some deep state actors unknown to the official chain of command initiated a biological attack with a virus we had no vaccine for.

    Canadian Maurice Strong was one of authors of the Global Warming Campaign and the Green New Deal, headed various UN agencies and turned down the UN Sec Gen position. He was also founding member of the World Economic Forum at Davos which he co-Chaired. Maurice moved in very high circles.

    The WEF’s current theme is called “The Reset”.

    In the mid-90s, in an interview with a small Canadian mag called WEST, Maurice Strong said:

    “What if a small group of world leaders were to conclude that the principal risk to the Earth comes from the actions of the rich countries?
    And if the world is to survive, those rich countries would have to sign an agreement reducing their impact on the environment. Will they do it?
    The group’s conclusion is ‘no’. The rich countries won’t do it. They won’t change.
    So, in order to save the planet, the group decides: Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse?
    Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?”

    Entertain, for a moment the notion that Maurice was speaking about a real development, and that he was speaking about it in its infancy. To me, in looking across the landscape of the last 25 yrs, it’s difficult to avoid the sense that those countries as enjoy patriotic and capable governance have positioned and prepared themselves to survive intact his “small group’s” managed singularity, and perhaps even thrive on the other side.

    Others, lacking such governance have spent their energy, resources and time vilifying those who prepared. This makes the situation terribly dangerous.

    Elites compete with each other and have no problem with catastrophe as long as their relative power remains roughly what it was before. It has become apparent that some elites will clearly come through this head & shoulders above those who enjoy the commanding heights today. That is anathema, and there’s a very real danger that the losers will play their last card before allowing that to happen.

    • Agree: Ghan-buri-Ghan
    • Replies: @BobX
  21. @Ron Unz

    Is it not just as plausible that there were similar reports circulating inside China that we do not know about? Simply stating that we know about a report here that existed a month before we became aware that China was aware proves nothing, especially inside the “intelligence” and espionage house of mirrors.

    This is not an argument against Mr. Unz’s hypotheses, but just a polite attempt at suggesting a wider range of possibilities.

    Imagine a scenario in which “our side” (LOL) learns of an outbreak, writes an internal report about it and decides to just let the “other side” suffer the consequences of something they may not yet know about themselves. Is this not just as possible as Ron’s argument that our side actually caused the outbreak?

    When you can let your competition make mistakes to your advantage, you let them. When you can withhold information that might help them, you withhold it. If you are in a car race and you notice that your opponent’s wheel is about to fall off, do you tell him? If you don’t, does that mean you loosened the lug bolts yourself?

  22. @Buzz Mohawk

    Just to add to my comment:

    Wasn’t the Chinese government rather harsh toward doctors or anyone who tried to speak out about what was happening in the early stages? Isn’t it plausible then that that government would keep it a secret even if they knew a month earlier that there was an outbreak? And isn’t it then a possibility that our side learned of this outbreak and wrote its internal report about it?

    Why would this scenario not be just as possible as the one Mr. Unz suggests? It is in fact just as possible and very similar, only it goes in the opposite direction.

    And this is regardless of where the virus came from (and how bad it really is.)

    • Replies: @Poco
    , @Vidi
  23. lysias says:

    If the election goes to the House, I assume, because of the rule that in such a case each state would get one vote and because of the Republicans dominating more state delegations in the House, that Trump would win.

  24. @utu

    There was no such warning from Taiwan. That is a fiction.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @David burford
  25. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @peterike

    Can you actually see Kamala or old man Biden declaring war on China of all places a la Roosevelt’s “day of infamy”? Democrats are the good cop, Republicans are the bad cop. If anything Trump will be shooed into the presidency to achieve the deep state’s war aims as the threat of prosecution of his entire clan proves to be inescapable.

  26. dearieme says:

    this doesn’t mean they knew that human-to-human transmission was possible

    I’ve seen remarks on this line before. But I don’t understand them: if human-to-human transmission doesn’t happen how can we have the pandemic? Nobody has ever suggested that it’s spread by, say, fleas, have they?

    • Agree: Brás Cubas
  27. I keep reading that Trump’s response to Covid-19 was a catastrophic blunder. Aside from everyone’s usual armchair quarterback approach to any major decision, and the reflexive belief in anything negative associated with Trump… what is the basis of this assertion?

    It seems like every country blundered one way or another, especially in the first few months. That’s what the response to an ‘unprecedented’ situation often entails. Given all of the factors involved in the spread and treatment of a novel disease, what specific things did the Trump administration do to make his response uniquely worthy of criticism compared to that of any other government?

    Merely quoting relative case/death statistics is facile and insufficient. The U.S. has any number of factors that could easily have exacerbated the problem regardless of Federal actions. You may as well compliment the governments of Rwanda or San Marino for how well they handled the pandemic.

    I’m not looking to exonerate Trump, just to find the objective truth behind what ‘everybody’ repeats as if it’s a settled fact.

  28. utu says:
    @ShowMe

    This is in the article that is linked in my comment.

    • Replies: @ShowMe
  29. Petermx says:

    The US only becomes concerned about communism when a communist country becomes a major power and a possible threat. Prior to that, the US can make the communists their greatest ally (USSR – 1941-45) One thing seems consistent. Like now, the media is generally pro-communist (or at least neutral) but other groups (including some in the government) oppose the communists. I think the USA’s new found anti-communism is only because the US now knows China is a major competitor but I think this realization has come too late,

    Regarding the pandemic, i don’t see how it could justify a war. What if it started in another country? Would they then be the enemy? According to one article I read the 1918 flu started in the US. Regardless of where it started there was no finger pointing as to who was responsible as far as I know. Unless it can be proven that it started in a particular country and it didn’t occur on its own I don’t see how any country can be blamed. If it was created in a lab for the purpose of warfare that might be different.

    As far as the US handling the pandemic poorly, I believe that can be squarely put on the media and other enemies of Trump. The virus was first reported in China so Trump’s instincts were correct when he closed the US off to Chinese nationals. When it spread strongly in certain EU countries he closed Europeans off from entering the US. This was also correct. For closing the US off from China the lying media blasted Trump as a racist. The Jewish media often has its own concerns and interests which have nothing to do with the problem at hand. Similarly, Trump praised hydroxychloroquine as a possible remedy and a brave doctor (Harvey Risch, possibly Jewish) from Yale has convincingly called it a miracle drug that could save many or most people if treated early. Trump’s advisors (Dr. Fauci) and the know nothing media has branded it as worthless. I can’t help wondering if the hostility to it is because it was discovered by a German scientist in the 1930’s, someone Americans typically refer to as a “NAZI scientist”. At the end of the war the US got their hands on it and patented it, claiming it for themselves.

  30. ariadna says:

    It is this kind of article that sets UR apart: lucid examination of the available evidence and well-founded conclusions, all laid out dispassionately. Thanks you, Mr Unz.

    • LOL: canspeccy
  31. Ron Unz says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Is it not just as plausible that there were similar reports circulating inside China that we do not know about?…Isn’t it plausible then that that government would keep it a secret even if they knew a month earlier that there was an outbreak?

    Well, anything is possible, but absolutely all evidence indicates otherwise.

    Officials in China’s national government first learned of the disease outbreak on December 30th, and Lemoine makes a strong case that local Wuhan officials only became aware of what was happening around the 27th or so. Remember, we’re talking about an entirely new and unsuspected disease, with symptoms that could easily be mistaken for something else, and the first death in Wuhan only occurred on January 11th.

    Just as a point of comparison, we eventually learned that the first death in California had occurred on February 6th but was entirely unrecognized as such at the time, and it took several weeks before authorities discovered the local outbreak. And that’s despite our medical professionals being entirely aware of the disease and having means of testing for it.

    As Lemoine indicates, it makes absolutely no sense for American intelligence to have distributed a secret report in late November describing the “cataclysmic” epidemic taking place in Wuhan…more than a month before there *was* such an epidemic, though after the disease had silently begun to spread.

    Wasn’t the Chinese government rather harsh toward doctors or anyone who tried to speak out about what was happening in the early stages?

    No. That’s just dishonest FoxNews-type propaganda. You really should read Lemoine’s articles.

    https://quillette.com/2020/08/24/the-china-syndrome-part-i-outbreak/

    • Thanks: Buzz Mohawk
  32. utu says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Read the article that I linked in my comment. This is a link to PHILIPPE LEMOINE who gives the further links and does lots of elaborate dancing around the issue to obscure and dismiss the fact that Taiwan was the first to alerted WHO and was ignored.

    On April 11 Taiwan officially confirmed sending the email to WHO and accused WHO of dereliction duty by ignoring it and lying about it.

    https://www.cna.com.tw/news/firstnews/202004115003.aspx

    “The Central Epidemic Command Center announced today the full text of Taiwan’s email notification to WHO. The commander and Minister of Health and Welfare Chen Shizhong said that on December 31 last year, Taiwan clearly reminded the WHO that patients with atypical pneumonia that occurred in Wuhan, China, need to be isolated and treated.”

    “Chen Shizhong said that the WHO is “the insider speaks layman’s terms.” Any public health or doctor knows what kind of conditions require isolation and treatment. If “isolation treatment” is not a warning sign, what is a warning sign? If Taiwan, a member country, has notified IHR (a window with the WHO International Health Regulations), has China, a member country, notified IHR? If not, it is not concealment, what is concealment? If it is said, WHO is not negligence, what is negligence?

    “He called on WHO to be frank and right, to actively deal with follow-up matters, not to divert the focus, and not to make mistakes again and again”

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    , @Iris
  33. “…Consider that nearly 200,000 Americans have already died…”

    Ahem. Try this.

    “…Consider that nearly 200,000 Americans have already ‘died’…”

    There. Much better. Until you’ve compared the rate of the virus among the deceased to the rate among tested members of the population at large, you could as reasonably claim hang nails have killed half a million on the grounds that of the several million natural deaths over the last eight months, half a million had hang nails.

    …England couldn’t figure out why England’s death rate from the virus was so much higher than Scotland’s. Then they realized that England counted everyone who had tested positive for the virus at any point in the last three months as having died from the virus — but Scotland only so counted them if they’d tested positive in the last two weeks.

    The long and short of it is that this is all bullshit, and there’s no evidence that anything we’re doing is helping in any case, so…

    • Agree: Kali
    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @gone,gone beyond
  34. Ron Unz says:
    @Colin Wright

    “…Consider that nearly 200,000 Americans have already ‘died’…”…Until you’ve compared the rate of the virus among the deceased to the rate among tested members of the population at large…

    Well, “excess deaths” in America from early March to the end of July had already exceeded 200,000, so it seems likely that current Covid-19 fatalities have reached around 250,000:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/08/12/us/covid-deaths-us.html

    This is not a thread to debate “Flu Hoaxery” and all such comments will be trashed.

    • Replies: @lysias
    , @Lot
    , @The Company
  35. @Ron Unz

    To my critical eye there is now an additional hypothesis to be followed up wrt your most important item of evidence, viz. the (small subsection of the) DIA’s alleged report on a possible calamity.
    Apart from my previous hypothesis that it was a combination of reports on military athletes’ health plus social media and open source internet that led a minor agency to speculate (and, I now add, draw attention to itself by using alarming language)…….
    There is the possibility that the Quillette pieces are right and that the alleged report didn’t exist [or was totally manufactured for inclusion in a Trump brief its authors were counting on Trump not reading or registering!] all with the aim of undermining Trump.

    The test of this v. your rejection of it is proof that the Israeli TV and/or Times of Jerusalem’s reports really did provide the proof that you claim of the genuiness of US precognition.

    • Replies: @lysias
    , @Ron Unz
  36. ShowMe says:
    @utu

    You link to an article that denies what you say as evidence of what you say. You link to an email that doesn’t actually say what you say as evidence that it does. And then you try to stretch the interpretation of a single word, “isolated”, to supposedly prove what is a strong accusation. This is not just unconvincing, it is astonishing.

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • Replies: @utu
  37. utu says:

    In part 4 PHILIPPE LEMOINE tries to answer the question whether the virus could escape from the lab:

    Did China lie about COVID-19? – Did SARS-CoV-2 accidentally escape from a lab? – Part 4
    https://necpluribusimpar.net/did-china-lie-about-covid-19-did-sars-cov-2-accidentally-escape-from-a-lab-part-4/

    LEMOINE brings main actor Shi Zhengli and the virus RaTG13-CoV she discovered. But nowhere he mentions how the virus RaTG13-CoV became known. As it happens Shi Zhengli kept the virus up in her sleeve for several years and on January 23 just decided write a paper about it:

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.22.914952v2.full

    where she showed that RaTG13-CoV was 96% identical with Covid-19. But what is interesting is that the virus was not logged in any database and Shi Zhengli did not have live or dead version of this virus but only it digital sequence. Her story was that the virus was discovered in 2013, sequenced and forgotten. Does it sound a bit too strange to claim to have a natural predecessor of Covid-19 just in time when allegations that the virus could have been of synthetic nature began to float among scientific bloggers? And I am not saying she was building an alibi just for China. After all her lab in Wuhan and she worked on synthesizing viruses for the gain of function together with Ralph Baric (collaborator of DARPA) of University of North Carolina while violating the moratorium on such research in not so distant past. Bringing up RaTG13-CoV on January 23, 2002 was like deus ex machina in a Greek play to resolve the intricate plot and put some unresolved questions to rest.

    Anyway, PHILIPPE LEMOINE does not seem to be too curious or his curiosity is very one-sided.

    • Troll: ploni almoni
    • Replies: @gavishti
  38. lysias says:
    @Ron Unz

    Many of those excess deaths were presumably caused by the shutdown. Who knows how many were caused by covid?

  39. lysias says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    DIA would presumably also have had access to NSA’s intercepts of Chinese internal communications in some form.

    I wouldn’t call DIA a minor agency. All U.S. military attaches, for example, report to it.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  40. @prime noticer

    The mass media have a lot to answer for. Some examples:

    1. Case counts. For months now, breathless reporting on catastrophic numbers which mean approximately nothing. More testing yields more cases. And finally, even that falls apart–which is a good thing.

    2. Death counts. Seldom if ever expressed in per-capita terms in relation to a particular country, thereby making large countries (and larger states) appear particularly hard-hit; when they’ve been nothing of the kind. See CFR and IFR stats for more. The Dems claim that the USA has been worst-hit when it’s been–nothing of the kind.

    3. Death counts again. Virtually never expressed as excess deaths even though we know about multiple co-morbidities being the rule rather than the exception among fatalities. Simply put: most of these people were going to die anyway, within a year or two. At worst covid brought some deaths forward.

    3a. Nothing has been done about the conditions from which covid made its fateful leap into human populations. Guess what? Extreme overpopulation, primitive, third-world conditions, and hideous mistreatment of animals can combine in unfortunate ways, Godflee to the contrary 😉

  41. BobX says:
    @Erebus

    The sneaky Canadian global warming nuts done it is your theory?

    • Replies: @Erebus
  42. Ron Unz says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Apart from my previous hypothesis that it was a combination of reports on military athletes’ health plus social media and open source internet that led a minor agency to speculate

    There’s zero evidence of any such “social media” speculation back in November.

    Many thousands of international military athletes attended the 2019 World Military Games in Wuhan in late October, and a handful of them became sick. There’s zero evidence that their mild, temporary illness had anything to do with Covid-19. Does the DIA issue secret reports warning of “cataclysmic” disease epidemics every time a half-dozen people come down with the flu anywhere in the world?

    On the other hand, the presence of the 300 military athletes from the US would have been ideal cover for introduction of a couple of agents who could have released the virus, and we know that’s right around the time that the viral epidemic began in Wuhan.

  43. BobX says:
    @Alden

    If a morbidly obese 78 year old with cancer dies in a car wreck is it not a traffic fatality?

    “The average life expectancy in the United States is 9.1 years for 80-year-old white women and 7.0 years for 80-year-old white men.”

    Were you dropped on your head as a child Alden?

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
    , @Alden
  44. Lot says:
    @Ron Unz

    Excess death calculations will ultimately give us the best estimates of covid deaths, but we cannot do them yet.

    Mortality went down in 2020 from flu, complications from surgeries that were postponed, and traffic accidents. These factors mean gross mortality understates covid deaths.

    The big factor in the other direction is covid pulling forward the deaths of sickly elderly people by a few months to maybe a year or so.

    Technically it is a covid death if a demented 88 year old in nursing home dies because of it in June 2020 instead of February 2021, but getting an idea of how many of the deaths are of this sort will be useful in determining covid’s impact, and for that we need to see if 2021 deaths are below trend because covid just slightly pulled forward the deaths of the weak 80+ population.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
  45. @Colin Wright

    Death certificates are made-up Garbage. The “excess deaths” gives a far better idea of the real damage, although it includes people who died from anything else, due to lack of proper timely medical care. So “excess deaths” overstates the Covid deaths, but not the total damage.

    I know of two people who died of Covid and neither were listed as Covid deaths. I’m not a doctor, but it was obvious to me that no other explanation fit all the facts. One person was in his mid-60’s and the other was only 30.

    Covid is very real; anyone in denial is just in the first stage of grieving … and, by now, revealed as an utter moron.

    • Replies: @Craig Nelsen
    , @Poco
    , @Ugetit
  46. utu says:
    @ShowMe

    On December 31 Taiwan informed WHO of epidemic in Wuhan that patients were isolated and treated. On the same day Taiwan began to temperature test all arrivals from Wuhan. The communication to WHO remained unacknowledged and unanswered. WHO waited another 20 days until China issued a statement that they had evidence of human-to-human transmission. Twenty days were wasted because of China dragging its feet probably because of some political, including silly typically Commie Chinese face saving, shenanigans and WHO slavishly listening to China.

    Because WHO ignored Taiwan as it is in the pocket of China the epidemic’s spread was much worse than it could have been if Taiwan was listened to. Taiwan listened to itself and implemented the best response to the epidemic in the world w/o resorting to the draconian Communist China measures that resulted in only 495 cases and 7 deaths in population of 23.8 million.

    PHILIPPE LEMOINE writes thousands of words to obscure the fact that Taiwan got it right and its message to the world was sabotaged by WHO on behalf of China. He tries to absolve China of sitting on data for 20 days and withholding them from the world.

    • Replies: @last straw
    , @showmethereal
  47. @Buzz Mohawk

    It’s far more plausible that the internal report is a fiction that was invented ex post facto by some group of chancers who thought it was in their interests to do so.

    The mechanism by which journalists obtain “confirmation” is well-understood: they contact people they know, to check if those people have heard the same story.

    If the story seems important, the second group of people will pretend that they already knew about it, just in case the story is true. After all, if they hadn’t heard about it, they would identify themselves as “out of the loop”, nicht wahr?

    And lo and behold, all of a sudden there are “multiple independent sources with knowledge of the events, who spoke on condition of anonymity“.

    Think back to people like Curveball and Ahmed Chalabi: or the “smoking gun as a mushroom cloud”, or “yellow cake from Niger”, or “human mincing machines”, or “Ghaddafi gives his shock-troops Viagra”… all confirmed by multiple sources – which means a journalist saw an article somewhere, and wrote a story claiming they also had a ‘source’; whereupon some other journalist republished similar material based on the fact that the story now appeared in two places and was therefore ‘confirmed’.

    The fact that the media in Occupied Palestine ‘independently’ ‘confirmed’ the story is literally worthless: worse than having something ‘confirmed’ by StratFor.

    Why do people go around thinking that the halfwits in national-security-theatre agencies are in front of the curve? In the “Brave New World” taxonomy, these are not-even-Beta level individuals. They have huge entertainment-expense budgets, and a lot of political power… but that second thing is not an indication of fitness-for-purpose.

    • Agree: Brás Cubas
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  48. @BobX

    If a morbidly obese 78 year old with cancer dies in a car wreck is it not a traffic fatality?

    It depends: did a PCR test generate a positive for SARS-nCoV2?

    I know that sounds preposterous that this would matter, but this is Theatre of the Absurd stuff.

    Read Malcolm Kendrick’s blog: the first page-worth of content will more than suffice, and will take you five minutes or so to digest.

    He’s been right at the front edge since the very beginning – he’s ICU generalist who also does a lot of work in nursing homes: he saw – and wrote about – aged coronavirus-positive elderly people being transferred back to care homes (with the resultant spike in deaths in those homes)… in April.

    Read his material or don’t – but if you’re interested in evidence-based analysis by a person who takes evidence seriously (Kendrick is the author of ‘Doctoring Data”), you would benefit from reading it.

    • Replies: @BobX
  49. BobX says:
    @Sollipsist

    Would that we were allowed a policy like Japan. Trump signed up to be the big shoulders in the US it is fair that blame falls there. There are lots of others that share the blame. In any case it is our collective American failure by any measure.

    Japan
    The country initially imposed an entry ban to travellers who have been in China, Iran or Italy in the 14 days before arrival. On April 3, it extended that ban to 73 countries, including the US, UK and Canada.

    The ban includes at least 44 European countries, 12 Asian countries, four countries in the Middle East, five African countries, six Latin American countries, as well as Australia and New Zealand.

    ANA Holdings Inc and Japan Airlines Co Ltd (JAL) are operating at nearly half their domestic capacity even though the coronavirus outbreak has left seats on flights mostly empty. The two normally fly around 800 or more domestic flights daily.

    The country’s two biggest airlines, have cut around 90% of international flights but left much of their domestic network intact, industry data showed.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Sollipsist
  50. @utu

    Although Taiwan did not explicitly say “human-to-human transmission”, it emphasized SARS The characteristics of type pneumonia and the patients are treated in isolation, strongly suggesting the possibility of human-to-human transmission.

    Taiwan warned WHO on December 31 , 2019 of a risk of human-to-human transmission of the novel corona virus, but was ignored.
    Fact: Taiwan did not warn the WHO, but only asked the WHO for further information after the Wuhan city government was announced.

    On December 31 , 2019, when the lung disease of unknown cause became known in Wuhan , the Taiwan Health Department asked the Chinese National Health Commission for more information and a response. On the same day, Taiwan sent an email to the WHO, which has now been published (see below). This email contained neither a warning nor information that there is a risk of human-to-human transmission. Basically, the content of the email coincides with the information that the Wuhan city government has already reported.

    The WHO has emphasized several times that this was not a warning from Taiwan, but only a request to keep an eye on developments in Wuhan. The email from Taiwan was also not the first to mention the illnesses in Wuhan. The WHO commented on the timing in a press conference on April 20, 2020: https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/media-resources/press-briefings (from minute 15)

    It was only on January 21, 2020 that the first Covid 19 case in Taiwan was confirmed. Until then, Taiwan had no clinical knowledge of any human-to-human transmission of the SARS-CoV-2. So what scientific content and what plausibility could a warning from Taiwan have had without the diagnosis of a specific case?

  51. Derer says:

    It therefore appears that elements of the Defense Intelligence Agency were aware of the deadly viral outbreak in Wuhan more than a month before any officials in the Chinese government itself.

    Quite obvious, because the US “intelligence” services have planted the Covid19 in China. Would Chinese be so dimwitted to release the deadly virus in their own country? No. For them reelecting Trump or senile Democrat does not make any difference. Covid19 is damaging Trump economy.

    Who gains most in the election year from the Covid19 domestically – Democrats. US is highly polarized and so are the military scientists. Democrats and their media fanatical attempts to damage Trump reelection is well documented and all have failed, consequently in their mind, blaming China would camouflage their last scheme with Covid19 to do the job on Trump – quite plausible.

    • Agree: Iris
  52. @dearieme

    I think the human-to-human question was back when it was plausible that infection only came from Chinese wet markets or eating bat soup.

    Chinese wet markets, by the way, and Chinese indifference to animal suffering in general, is the one aspect of Chinese culture I find indefensible, irredeemable, and permanently alienating. There is a reason the Bolsheviks relied heavily on Chinese militia to conduct their mass executions, to staff the CheKa’s torture and execution chambers, to carry out intra-military punishments, and to provide personal security during The Red Terror against the Russian people.

    • Troll: antibeast
  53. @gone,gone beyond

    I know of two people who died of Covid and neither were listed as Covid deaths.

    How could that be?

  54. @Ron Unz

    As this seems to be critical to your preferred hypothesis I have started looking for what might count as evidence of that for which you say there is zero evidence, namely the use of social media and the evidence of Covid 19 in military athletes – or just some illness that raised questions. I do not share your apparent confidence that there was nothing to be found on Chinese social media that might spark interest in someone with medical orientation seeking to make a mark with limited resources on the fringe of the intelligence community. It might only have taken the observation by someone that a couple of Wuhan athletes had displayed some mysterious symptoms and joked that maybe they had gone to a wet market and picked up China’s latest contribution to population control. “Well” the response might have been, “you might be on to something more than you suppose and I have just the right chap here to find out. He’s my Chinese grad student intern who loves playing with AI. If there is any gossip going round Wuhan I’ll bet he can find it”.
    So far I have just found a BBC piece which mentions some posts being taken off WhatsApp. I’m not sure what the date of the deletion was, but a rational search with AI would certainly concentrate on deleted items which might still be recoverable.
    As to the question of the proof actually provided by Israeli TV and Times of Jerusalem I would be interested to see tht tracked down meticulously.

    I don’t have much expectation of belief, but if the first story one heard about the report of a potential cataclysm was the one I have put up I challenge anyone to say , with reasons, why they would have immediately dismissed it. It includes of course the Bolton degraded medical intelligence agency with limited resources and access but a properly conscientious and ambitious director. (He’d be the chap other agencies of government couldn’t find😎).

  55. BobX says:
    @Kratoklastes

    Do you think Malcolm and Alden are making the same argument? I don’t. Alden’s is the much stupider argument that they should not be counted because they were old & sick and so there lives were of little value and should not be counted.

    Me I like the George Box quote “All models are wrong, but some are useful”. In the case of the Wuhan Coronavirus is seems most have not been. But there is Japan so that we can know there are other roads we could have taken.

    I am guessing there is going to be a lot higher rate of bitter Swedes and Americans morning their COVID-19 dead than Japanese.

    • Replies: @Alden
  56. JimDandy says:
    @SunBakedSuburb

    The motive being? To cause a pandemic and blame China?

  57. Tor597 says:

    Check out the spin from this Daily Mail article. The cognitive dissonance here is absolutely stunning.

    A British guy who never left the UK caught the virus in December and died from Covid.

    Their only possible conclusion is that China lied about the virus and spread to the UK much earlier lol.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8711951/Grandfather-84-NEVER-left-UK-earliest-known-fatality-coronavirus-outside-China.html

  58. @Sollipsist

    As an Australian, I always enjoy telling Yanks that they have a federal system in which their states have the primary health responsibility. The Democrat states had a disaster. It’s still mainly a Democrat disease in the USA but I know of no reason why the Republicans can’t catch up.

    Why have US posters stopped gloating over the death and disease in China? When did Yanks stop knowing about the outbreak there? I read hundreds of those posts and could never understand how people couldn’t understand how well China was handling the epidemic. They have now had a total number of infected around 85,000 but that’s in a country of 1.4 billion. They did so well because they tried to eliminate the disease before a major outbreak. The USA has done over 300 times worse and the epidemic is still going on. Like all NATO countries, the USA is determined not to threaten the survival of COVID-19.

    I’m not saying the USA has done particularly badly for a NATO country. You’ve only done 19 times worse than Australia so far but we needed extreme stupidity to keep you that close and we’re closer to eradicating COVID-19. Stupidity respects no borders.

    When China said they had no proof of human to human transmission, they were speaking in the scientific way. They had no proof meant they had no proof. It didn’t mean that they had proof it didn’t happen. When they had proof, they said they had proof. Why is it hard for Yanks to understand that?

    I’m not as suspicious as Ron Unz about the USA knowing about the Wuhan outbreak before the Chinese Government. In December, One of my friends cancelled his trip to Vietnam in January because I warned him. The early reports from Wuhan were concerning and I wasn’t prepared to encourage recklessness even though there was insufficient scientific proof. “Knowing” is a word that has to be interpreted and it can mean different things in the same sentence.
    [email protected]

  59. Dan Hayes says:

    Is it only me, but does this article end midstream unfinished?

  60. Mark T says:
    @Ron Unz

    If the virus had somehow leaked from Fort Derrick last summer leading to the ‘serious flu outbreak’ in the care home 50km away and the sudden ‘vaping disease’ that appeared to hit only the US that fall, then it could also have infected the US athletes going to the Wuhan military games. As I understand it, the first cluster was actually at the hotel they were staying at not the wet market.
    We know that Spanish flu was actually spread by the US military from the US, why not this too? After all there are 800 military bases around the world, many on regular rotation. So (massive) cock-up not conspiracy perhaps?

    • Agree: Peripatetic Itch
  61. Bill H says:

    “The response of America’s national government to the Covid-19 outbreak was among the worst and most incompetent in the world…”

    It’s hard to imagine what the author is talking about here. The only thing of any consequence that the national government did was close the national borders, and it staggers the imagination to believe that had any significant negative consequences. The federal government deployed a couple of hospital ships, and dispensed some emergency supplies, but…

    State and local governments on the other hand, closed down businesses, quarantined healthy people, forced nursing homes to accept coronavirus-infected patients, etc. The incompetence below the federal level defies belief, but this penchant for blaming the federal government for it is just ridiculous.

    • Agree: Peripatetic Itch, Redman
    • Replies: @Redman
  62. @lysias

    You rightly avoid the abuse that is so common on UR threads even when the comment is plainly misconceived.

    If you had been following my hypothetical line you would have seen that, despite Ron’s repettition of “DIA” I was attempting to insist on what I understand to be the fact, namely that the agency that had come up with the potential cataclysm was the National Center for Medical Intelligence which had been booted out of the White House and had its funding cut by John Bolton.

    No doubt the DIA could have asked the NSA to keep and examine all Chinese internal communications that they could pick up, but there is no suggestion that it did so or even formulated what should be looked for. What is more it doesn’t fit Ron’s version. (“zero evidence”).

    • Replies: @JackOH
  63. Alden says:
    @BobX

    Read my comment average age of death, all ethnicities and both sexes 78.54.

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  64. I’m afraid many of you folk take Ron far too seriously.
    He hasn’t and you haven’t learned anything from 911.
    Look at the pre-set agendas being rammed into place.
    There is no doubt that this is a global controlled demolition.
    The likes of James Corbett is lightyears ahead of Ron.
    I really thought Ron was real. But he has emerged as another controlled opposition.

  65. Alden says:
    @BobX

    Read my post . I didn’t say people with deadly diseases who died in their late 70’s shouldn’t be counted because they’re old and sick and would have died sooner or later without covid.

    I wrote that about 9,500 died of covid alone.
    The other 180,000 had one or more deadly diseases.

    Do you know what the very very common disease of old age COPD is? A patient’s lungs cannot breathe in enough oxygen to pass the oxygen to the blood. Without oxygen the patient dies even with oxygen tubes. The oxygen tubes do bring more oxygen to the lungs than the patient can breathe on his own. That helps for months or even years. But there’s no medical technology that can prevent the further deterioration of the lungs. Finally the lungs cannot transfer oxygen to the blood Then the patient dies, covid or not. There is no cure for COPD.

    Any sinus allergies colds sneezes chest colds bronchitis mild and severe coughs pleurisy any respiratory problem added to COPD is deadly. And covid is a respiratory problem. COPD is probably the most common disease of old age. And unlike cardio vascular disease, there is no cure for covid

    Those are medical facts, not scare mingeribg by the lying press.

    • Thanks: Majority of One
    • Replies: @BobX
  66. Sulu says:

    If there was ever any doubt to the ethnicity of (((Unz))) he certainly dispelled it by devoting the first several paragraphs of his rant to bashing President Trump. No need to take a genetic test Ron. You’re a Jew.

    Looks like you chose an appropriate name for your article, though.

    Sulu

    • Replies: @Derer
  67. Notwithstanding its origin, do we all remember the insane propaganda we were receiving from China back in February?

    1) Widely disseminated photo of a lady eating a bat with her bowl of soup. Retarded.
    2) Folks literally dropping dead in the middle of the street. Retarded.
    3) Twenty earthmovers in a big dirt field building a hospital in ten days. Retarded and comical.
    4) Guys in full hazmat suits spraying city streets during the night. Spraying what exactly?
    5) Crews welding apartment building doors shut to force a draconian quarantine. Never happened.
    6) A gazillion dead. Okay, maybe only a couple million. Okay, maybe two dozen octogenarians.

    The value of China wasn’t from any disease, it was in its propaganda. That’s how TPTB lit the fuse for their global lockdown and raiding every nation’s treasury. Like Die Hard 2: while everybody’s focused on the fake bomb in a public school, the bad guys are trucking off tons of gold bars.

  68. @Sollipsist

    The blunder was not having still loyal operatives in the CIA slip FAUCI massive doses of LSD and send him to an insane asylum for long term recovery.

    • LOL: Sollipsist
  69. Miha says:

    ” The response of America’s national government to the Covid-19 outbreak was among the worst and most incompetent in the world, with only India and Brazil challenging our place at the bottom of the charts, ”

    Really? How is that measured? In deaths per million, (it makes no sense to talk about total numbers of deaths irrespective of the population of the country) these countries have a higher number of deaths than the US. – Belgium, Spain, United Kingdom, Italy, Peru, Chile ,Ecuador and Brazil.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

    • Agree: Sollipsist
  70. Iris says:
    @utu

    On April 11 Taiwan officially confirmed sending the email to WHO and accused WHO of dereliction duty by ignoring it and lying about it.

    A post-mortem carried on UK elderly patient Peter Attwood proved that he died of Covid19, an infection for which he showed the first symptoms on December 28 – three days before the Chinese government reported the outbreak to the WHO.

    He was contaminated by daughter Jane Buckland who fell ill two weeks earlier.

    This proves that the virus was already spreading in Britain in early December 19 at the latest.

    Is that China’s fault too? Was China responsible for informing the WHO about a pandemic proven to have been spreading in Britain (and France) in December 2019?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8715661/Pictured-British-grandfather-84-died-Covid-19-having-caught-December.html

    https://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/societe/sante/covid-19-un-premier-cas-en-france-des-le-27-decembre-d-apres-un-chef-de-reanimation_2125197.html

    • Agree: Tor597, Curmudgeon
  71. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:
    @BobX

    Would that we were allowed a policy like Japan. Trump signed up to be the big shoulders in the US it is fair that blame falls there. There are lots of others that share the blame. In any case it is our collective American failure by any measure.

    Big Shoulders: That’s Hillary and Biden, not Trump.

    “. . . it is our collective American failure by any measure.” Left wing dialect meaning: “Wasn’t our fault”. Doesn’t apply in this case, as the Left opposed Pres.Trump every step along the way of reacting to COVID-19.

  72. anon[131] • Disclaimer says:

    I have read a number of articles over the years on your website and other websites of a more conservative opinion. The implications of the article above and the others have not escaped me but I am inclined to think that they still escape you or that you are holding back.

    I first went down this rabbit hole back in the early 90’s when Pons and Fleischmann performed the experiment which later came to be known as cold fusion. I read the criticisms of the experiment and concluded that the critics desperately wanted in many cases for the experiment to not be true. The criticism was in many cases simply beyond the pale and there was so much of it.

    Eventually I concluded that there was an organized effort to deny the experiment altogether whatever the truth of it and that the effort was massive. I considered the cost of organizing such an effort and it seemed beyond any ordinary effort to organize. This idea lead me to consider other efforts to suppress of a more political nature which eventually brought me to the literature of which your website is a part.

    I think that there is no hope that there is any chance in any of this. It is deliberate, well thought out, and means to conquer the world. The deaths of billions will be quite acceptable. Internal control of the most drastic forms will be needed to maintain internal peace when nuclear attacks will be undertaken against the remaining resistant countries. Counter strikes with nukes will have to be absorbed so cities in the West, particularly the US, cannot allow ill discipline on the part of the domestic population. The control will have to be tight enough prevent mass public hysteria from destabilizing the war effort.

    Yes, the motive is crazy. The execution is not. We live in an age where a mad elite means to conquer the world and rule it to its own benefit. It will do anything to secure its rule internally under the most strenuous circumstances while it throws everything at its external enemies. Once one concludes this the specific events on the road to dictatorship, internal suppression and war are easy enough to analyze and in some cases anticipate.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @anon
    , @DaveE
  73. jsigur says:
    @BobX

    The elites have, time and time again proved that they are quite willing to sacrifice some of the slaves masquerading as citizens to their higher cause of total world rule. Remember, the fact is all citizens of the world that believe in nationhood are enemies of the elites and that is why they rule through misdirection while it also shows one with a discerning eye, just how dangerous they are.There are likely underground cities to go to for the one percent no matter the havoc they release on the surface.

  74. Patta says:

    Thanks for the link to this massive report!

  75. @Ron Unz

    Ron, Please reconsider taking a data “analysis” from the NYT as gospel. Go to the CDC database your NYT article references: https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/fluview/mortality.html Download the data yourself. In about 20 minutes of sorting the data you will see two things:

    1) January to date “excess” mortality in the USA is well under 100,000.
    2) The majority of the ‘excess” is in only five jurisdictions: NYC, New Jersey, Miami/Dade, Metro Detroit and Chicagoland.

    The trick the NYT Journalists played on you and its readers is that unlike for all other years in the CDC “model” the peak in Flu and Pneumonia deaths this year occurred in March-May — instead of Dec-Feb. By starting their analysis in March the NYT propagandist skipped over the large deficit in deaths the CDC model shows for January and February this year. You can quickly confirm this slight of hand by looking at the easy to view multiyear sine wave of seasonal Flu and Pneumonia deaths on the CDC FluView Mortality chart.

    The other interesting item in the CDC data is that the CDC reserves the option to adjust their data for up to two years after the end of a flu season. This is why CNN and Washington Post were able to report the shocking 80,000 flu deaths in the 2017-2018 flu season which just ahead of Covid 19 was recalculated by the CDC to be only 60,000.

  76. @BobX

    Yep, what Scott Adams remarked about General Soleimani (and Donald Trump) seems to be simple and right. Occam’s dream pairing.

  77. antibeast says:
    @SunBakedSuburb

    Wuhan was also seeing the return of thousands of its citizens who work in the textile industry in northern Italy. The Chinese expatriates returned to their jobs in Italy infected with a particularly virulent strain of the virus.

    Chinese immigrants who work in the textile industry in Milan and Prato, Italy come from Wenzhou not Wuhan. And those Chinese immigrants in Milan and Prato did not report any cases of Covid-19 due to the early imposition of quarantine measures in Wenzhou after the outbreak in Wuhan.

  78. Emslander says:

    Ron Unz has some strange takes on the obvious.

  79. Ace says:
    @mark green

    That’s very interesting when you phrase it that way.

    Swing a cat at any D.C. dinner party or faculty lounge anywhere and everyone you’ll hit will be in love with the notion of our “exceptionalism” and our — or their — civilizing mission, regime change, and endless sanctions to straighten out the children and swine who run the world’s governments. It’s okay for us to cause or facilitate hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths and wanton destruction but anyone who resists us is a brutal dictator.

    God only knows why they consider Russia the antichrist but they do.

    Everything we do is lit by a St. Elmo’s fire of righteousness such that anything and everything can be upended to create a new city on the hill or demons cast out. We’re exceptional because of our unbounded compassion and ardent embrace of fairness and the mission to kiss every historic boo-boo of our benighted ancestors and of our red neck peasants.

    What you describe seems to be Ingredient X at every banquet that defies rational analysis. We are embarked on one immense Children’s Crusade.

  80. @Miro23

    Problem that the ZioGlob is simultaneously taking on Russia, China, Anglo-America (non woke part) and most of the Middle East – which seems like a lot – so there’s some margin for error in Crazy World planning. Any one of these conflicts could blow up and run completely out of control.

    This strategy is so nonsensical that I’m starting to think it is intentional. Essentially, they seem to want Asia vs China, Europe vs Russia, and American Civil War 2.0 to all erupt simultaneously. Perhaps they need worldwide chaos to enact more drastic measures than we can dream of.

  81. Whoever says that Ron Unz isn’t a mainstream Jew is at most kidding himself, especially, with his ready columns to condemn the country of his birth (but not in his heart) and let off the hook the real culprit, the dirty yellow rats.

    • Replies: @Half Back
  82. IMO, the most interesting argument of your thesis is Iran.

    The seemingly independent Israeli confirmation may be part of a US-initiated Trump-targeted information operation, together with the reports to NATO allies. I do not think it’s farfetched given the pervasiveness of TDS across the American and world establishments.

    But the fact that Iran was so hard-hit so soon, does seem odd. IMO, again, this is the most promising angle. Iran is not nearly as opaque as China and yet we know next to nothing about what happened there and why.

    Was it simply bad luck? Is it a revelation of much deeper ties with China than we know of this side of the world? Was there foul play involved?

    • Replies: @Majority of One
  83. antibeast says:
    @peterike

    Even now, when we KNOW that Covid is a fat nothing burger — the “just the flu bro” crowd was 100% correct — Ron clings to his neurotic obsession with it, and now its spilling over into geo-politics.

    I agree. Covid-19 has been proven to be just a worse-than-usual seasonal flu which has since been found to have spread widely all over the world by November 2019, one month before its discovery in Wuhan. Upon learning of this emerging Covid-19 pandemic, the US Deep State then concocted a conspiracy theory to scare the public by planting the Covid-19 virus in the Wuhan Wet Market just in time for their “discovery” in China which alarmed the Chinese authorities who then over-reacted by imposing a national shutdown. The Western Media then went into overdrive fanning a Covid-19 hysteria by blaming the heathen Orientals for the “bat-soup” pandemic. Thus the stage was set to force a national shutdown in the USA which caused a market meltdown followed by a multi-trillion bailout to Wall Street. The Western Media then shifts the blame from China to Trump for failing to tame the Covid-19 pandemic in the USA.

    Covid-19 is too mild to qualify as a biological weapon aside from the fact that vaccines would have been made available to its creator much earlier if it was indeed lab-created. However, Covid-19’s ability to kill people and disrupt economies can also be weaponized by its creators to target certain countries such as Iran whose top leaders suffered from Covid-19 infections early on.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  84. vot tak says:

    A useful article describing the Russian anti covid-19 vaccine and its difference from the others under development.

    Questions on Russia’s Sputnik V Vaccine Answered, Time for Critics to Look for Plank in Own Eyes

    https://sputniknews.com/columnists/202009071080382164-questions-on-russias-sputnik-v-vaccine-answered/

    “Since the launch on August 11 of the Sputnik V COVID-19 vaccine, developed by Gamaleya Center scientists, Russia has seen immense interest and expressions of hope from many countries and has received requests for 1 billion doses of the vaccine.

    However, it has also faced criticism and questions from some Western countries and companies, especially those developing their own vaccines—often based on technologies yet to be proven for safety and efficacy, such as mRNA or monkey adenoviral vector-based platforms. Following the publication of the results of the Phase 1 and Phase 2 clinical trials of Sputnik V in The Lancet, we would like to summarize answers to these questions and ask some of our own.”

    • Replies: @Derer
  85. Anonymous[208] • Disclaimer says:

    Why on earth are you still trying to push chinkypox as a serious threat when it has been 100% clear for months that the CCP engineered the virus specifically to not be very harmful, but China’s response was to make it seem harmful and use their WHO control to get other countries to shut down their economies for no reason. Look at the economic growth this year, China is up, EVERYONE else is down. We know Chinese spies stole samples from US and Canadian labs that were working on coronaviruses. We know those spies worked at the Wuhan lab. We know the Wuhan lab was working on coronaviruses. And we know this has been a huge boon for China and incredibly destructive for the US. So the obvious conclusion is that the US did it right?

  86. Ugetit says:

    31,000 Words Missing from The Atlantic and The New York Times Sunday Magazine

    The enemy is the gramophone mind, whether or not one agrees with the record that is being played at the moment.

    -George Orwell, The Freedom of the Press, Introduction (suppressed), Animal Farm.

    https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/the-freedom-of-the-press/

  87. orionyx says:

    The rapid spread of a particularly virulent strain of flu in Iran, early on, following on a string of other attacks on Iran, leads me to think that the Iranian flu was another strain, unleashed deliberately under cover of the rather benign Wuflu, Moreover, the Iranian attack could be used to assess the efficacy of the Iranian strain, which is certainly being held for use again, either on a targeted population (the Duma?) or on a larger and more diffuse one (the Meccan pilgrims?).

    As to who, this looks just like what the crazed supremacists of Zion and the USA would do. I shudder to think what could happen if the likes of President Kneepads gets hold of it.

    • Agree: Sulu
    • Thanks: Majority of One
  88. mm says:

    The parroting of the US line by Israeli media in no way verifies the truth of the original story. Israeli and US intelligence agencies, government and media work hand in glove

  89. @Drakejax

    An alternate and bigger list – the six theories of covid-19 coronavirus, circulating in mass media and on the alternate web, including as suggested in Ron Unz’s article above, and the essentials of Drakejax’s shorter list in the comments:

    (1) Covid is real and natural like the Spanish flu a century ago, and capitalist governments such as Trump’s, out of a combination of desire for business plus incompetence, have let the virus spread, via negligent efforts to keep the economy going

    (2) Covid is real, and the Chinese are responsible for creating a bio-weapon that got loose and out of control

    (3) Covid is real, and the USA plus maybe Israel, is responsible for creating a bio-weapon launched against China and Iran, that got loose and out of control

    (4) Covid is real, a bio-weapon created to cull the elderly and sick, saving pension, disability and welfare funds for governments

    (5) Covid is a hoax, ‘just the flu’, a scam co-ordinated by world governments / deep states both east and west, to put in place a control grid staging an eventual NWO, blaming deaths on ‘covid’ when over 90% of ‘covid deaths’ are seriously ill or elderly people who are regularly killed off as the flu hits them, with constant false covid test results, hospitals and governments paid and bribed to diagnose ‘covid’, etc

    (6) Covid is a mixture of real and hoax, given that light dosages of chemical weapons such as sarin gas, will create similar symptoms such as respiratory system pseudo-pneumonia and collapse … sarin gas perhaps being deployed in China, in Iran and Italy, followed by co-ordinated covid exaggerated claims by world governments as above

  90. MLK says:

    The response of America’s national government to the Covid-19 outbreak was among the worst and most incompetent in the world . . . .

    This sort of concise repetition of the anti-Trump narrative is embarrassing for an author and webzine that claim to be too controversial for mainstream citation. Who hasn’t been saying this since the beginning. Keep it up and you’ll eventually get that mainstream mention, perhaps of the Strange New Respect variety.

    ” . . . the recent demonization of China, a bipartisan project of Democrats and Republicans alike . . . “

    Where have you been? If you’re talking about anti-China rhetoric electoral purposes then “demonization of China” is nothing new. It was a tried and true UniParty tactic, with an inverse relationship between the lame shouting before the election and the sell-out of American interests afterward.

    As I’ve explained previously, CCP China won the post-Cold War quarter century, hands down. They couldn’t have done it without our help (money).

    Though in 2012, establishment Democrats and Republicans were so thoroughly in the bag for CCP China they conspired to take it out of the election almost entirely. This after Hillary had burnished her tough on China bona fides by traveling there as Secretary of State to stomp her feet over ladies issues.

    ” . . . has already been labeled a new Cold War by leading journalistic observers . . . “

    I like it, someone has to carry on Chomsky’s style and it might as well be you!

    But you’re completely ignoring the years of ‘war-talk’ in the form of a Trade War simply because Trump had the temerity to slap tariffs on China, the globalists free trade ideal.

    The domestic and foreign alignment against Trump hasn’t changed one bit. His destruction remains as close to a dues ex machina as any of us have or will see in our lifetimes. Not the least for CCP China and its American supplicants.

    The good news is that Trump has made prodigious efforts since taking the oath, greatly reduce the prospect of an international incident to fuel an election narrative for his removal. There have been so many these last four years I stopped counting.

    “Hawaii Panics After Alert About Incoming Missile Is Sent in Error”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/13/us/hawaii-missile.html

    No Deputy Dawg routine from you or your “leading journalist observers” on that one. Or even the even more baldly obvious and dangerous Democrat/Iranian op to use the latter’s Iraqi militias at the turn of the new year to seize and hold American hostages until the election in a replay of the Iranian Hostage Crisis that sunk Carter’s reelection.

    https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/2020/01/02/photos-reveal-damage-to-us-embassy-in-baghdad-following-attack-by-supporters-of-iran-backed-militia/

    If we make it through the election without this sort of October Surprise it is only because Trump has spent the entirety of his first term neutralizing the exploitative value of creating such an incident.

    This isn’t to say there isn’t going to be “surprises” between now and election like we’ve never seen before from the Fake News. For example, I doubt we’re done with Russia just so happening to fuel the Russia “collusion” narrative.

  91. @Nancy Pelosi's Latina Maid

    do we all remember the insane propaganda we were receiving from China back in February?

    It sure had me scared. And without wholly buying your claims, those twenty earth movers certainly did catch my eye when I looked more closely. All but three of them were backhoes, which would have been useless for leveling a dirt field. The only bulldozers seemed, from their tracks, only to be going back and forth over a limited area.

    I’m still waiting for someone to show me footage of that hospital in operation. All we were shown was one empty room with beds and ventilators.

    Too often we “see” what we are told to see.

  92. Tim too says:

    “…he also includes a discordant early paragraph mentioning that multiple US Intelligence sources had disclosed to ABC News that in late November a unit of our own Defense Intelligence Agency had distributed a secret report describing a “cataclysmic” disease outbreak taking place in Wuhan, warning our military forces stationed in East Asia to take appropriate health precautions. Lemoine correctly notes that the claims “made no sense” since “there is simply no way US intelligence could have known that an epidemic was underway at the time.” …”

    There are other interpretations of the intentions, mentioned later in the paragraph.

    One intention could have been ‘reaction control’ – efforts to get the Chinese to over react in particular ways. It seems to me that the Chinese over reacted, and that suited diverse agendas in the West, including efforts to get over reaction in the West as well.

  93. Tor597 says:
    @Anonymous

    Lol. Nice Indian Propoganda there street shitter. Its not Chinas fault that India is not civilized enough to control an outbreak.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @homahr
  94. anon[327] • Disclaimer says:
    @mark green

    Due to the uncontrollable and unpredictable nature of this novel virus

    Maybe “novel” doesn’t belong with this virus.
    Maybe its lethality or lacking was/is known.
    And to where and to whom (Iran) also known
    and planned.

    Along with coin “shortage” and sundry other BS.

  95. Anon[374] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    I imagine the people who did it have some sort of low dose hydroxychloroquine regimine for themselves, or a similar existing medication that keeps the virus at bay until the immune system kills it. It seems far fetched that these people thought the virus would not get around the world in 2020. I think that was the intent. The Deep State wants a war-friendly president, and we don’t have one.

  96. anon[213] • Disclaimer says:

    This is like when Harvey Weinstein shot up his floppy dick and raped the shit out of his 500th shiksa and people who saw it for years said, the old scumbag is past it, let’s get him.

    CIA mad scientists have been doing germ warfare on us ever since they sprung Unit 731 and gave em jobs. The Anthrax attack on Congress, CIA is going to pay for that. Korean War germ warfare, SARS, MERS, CIA is going to pay for that. The multiple introductions of H1N1, CIA is going to pay for that. The Lyme ticks that crawl up your leg and give you ten diseases including that weird embarrassing farty disease, CIA is going to pay for that.

    The SCO is fed up. Everybody in the world knows about this except the brainwashed American masses. But now Ron Unz is the Executive Director of the Center for the Study of the Obvious.

    It’s time to construct a bug pit full of ticks, chiggers, loa-loa worms, and scabies mites loaded up with everything they got at Fort Detrick, Pine Bluff Arsenal, Horn Island, Dugway Proving Ground, Vigo Ordinance Plant, Kenema G.H., and the Lugar Center. And drop Gina, Pompeo, Petraeus, Brennan, Hadley, and Gates into it. The first one that talks gets out. Truth & Reconciliation!

    • Agree: Robert White, Derer
    • Thanks: Majority of One
    • Replies: @Ugetit
  97. The US military knew in October 2019 that a COVID catastrophe was brewing in Wuhan. But Conan O’Brien’s father, Thomas Francis O’Brien, associate professor at the Harvard Medical School, and director of the infectious disease department at Brigham & Women’s Hospital in Boston, had even earlier foreknowledge. Here is Conan admitting that his father called him in spring 2019 to warn him: “Trust me, there’s this thing coming, and you’re going to be broadcasting from home…” Conan wondered whether the world should be warned. His father responded: “I look after my own.”

    “The Late Show with Stephen Colbert”: https://youtu.be/RchxKfRP2Ww?t=198 (Interesting part ends at 3:60)

    • Replies: @FoSquare
    , @Majority of One
  98. MLK says:
    @Ron Unz

    Also consider that just a few weeks later, America suddenly assassinated Iran’s top military leader, which also seems like an extremely reckless act.

    Are you kidding?

    https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/2020/01/02/photos-reveal-damage-to-us-embassy-in-baghdad-following-attack-by-supporters-of-iran-backed-militia/

    https://www.the-sun.com/news/204884/iran-says-trump-cant-do-a-damn-as-fanatics-thugs-firebomb-baghdad-embassy-and-vow-to-kill-every-american-inside/

    And here’s Senator Murphy carrying the narrative ball for his Iranian co-conspirators:

    President Donald Trump said the attack was orchestrated by Iran Tuesday and insisted the country would be held “fully responsible.”
    U.S. Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., called the attack “horrifying but predictable.” He blamed the Trump administration’s policy toward the Middle East for the assault on the embassy, while some Republicans praised the administration’s swift response to the onslaught.

    “[President Donald] Trump has rendered America impotent in the Middle East,” Murphy, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, wrote in Twitter Tuesday morning. “No one fears us, no one listens to us. America has been reduced to huddling in safe rooms, hoping the bad guys will go away.”

    https://www.middletownpress.com/middletown/article/U-S-embassy-attack-horrifying-but-14941585.php

    I know it’s your webzine, but you really should make an effort to develop enough respect for yourself that you stop coming up with these doozies.

    • Disagree: Biff
    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  99. homahr says:
    @BobX

    Happy that Scott didn’t call Soleimani a terrorist anti-Semite who wanted the genocide of Jews. That seemed to be the justification given most trumpites.

  100. Those who know don’t say
    Those who say don’t know

    Words all writers at Unz dot com would do well to really, really, really, take to heart.

    There’s a lot of people “sayin’” here on Unz, inside the echo chamber it might be easy to start thinking you (collective) know what you’re talking about.

    Chinese anti-carrier ballistic missiles have been developed to prevent an American blockade of their vital offshore waters, and many analysts doubt we have any effective defense. The loss of a carrier would mean thousands of American deaths and the possible collapse of our perceived control of the world’s sea lanes, perhaps ending the dollar’s long reign as the world’s reserve currency and thereby massively impoverishing our citizenry. A frantic American government might react by escalating to nuclear weapons, with horrific and unforeseeable consequences.

    If an aircraft carrier is sunk in a tangle with China it will not be because of a lack of capable means of defending the carriers, it will be due to a failure of application of the means of defense.

    The most likely outcome of a shooting war with China is: the entire Chinese navy will be sunk, and for good measure most likely the entire Chinese merchant marine, and the entire Chinese air force will be crushed, down to the last fake Cessna.

    Effective Chinese counter-measures will not be against many hard targets, instead they will be on soft targets on the US mainland – and those really may be devastating. China can hurt us in ways Al Qaeda could only wet dream about.

    And that’s all anyone needs to know. We shouldn’t fight with China, but for purposes of your policy speculations and projections, you are likely to steer off course when you place too much credit in these kinds of presumptions. There’s no special immunity to the Dunning–Kruger effect here and there are some potential aggravators.

    • Replies: @Robert Konrad
  101. @antibeast

    vaccines would have been made available to its creator much earlier if it was indeed lab-created

    How do you know a vaccine was not created? See John Hankey’s “Covid-19 Inside Job”. Here at this webzine you have the link to it and a podcast with Kevin Barrett:

    https://www.unz.com/audio/kbarrett_john-hankey-peter-myers-on-covid-19-inside-job-plandemic/

    Now some wild speculation. AstraZeneca has interrupted its tests and it is being highly publicized that they are investigating some possible adverse effects on one volunteer. It has been reported that it has happened before with another volunteer. They now say that previous event was not the vaccine’s fault, and so the more recent case may also turn out to not be the vaccine’s fault. But why wasn’t that previous case as highly publicized as the latest one? I hadn’t heard of it.

    https://www.statnews.com/2020/09/09/astrazeneca-covid19-vaccine-trial-hold-patient-report/

    Of course, speaking only speculatively, if you have a secret vaccine ready, the last thing you want is that people should find out about it or even suspect it. Therefore, you might want to stage all sorts of adverse events to give an impression that an actual development process is underway.

  102. Anonymous[208] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tor597

    WTF does India have to do with anything, Chang?

  103. homahr says:
    @Tor597

    I was quite surprised at how India handled the outbreak. They didn’t need to shutdown the entire country like they did where millions of migrant workers had no advance notice, no transportation to get home and just had to walk hundreds of miles just to get home.

  104. Drakejax says:
    @BobX

    Thanks for the correction. I think his theory works with or without Trump involved but does work best without.

  105. Ace says:
    @Ron Unz

    Dishonest FoxNews-type propaganda?

    What an odd characterization when we all drown in an ocean of media monopoly and other MSM dishonesty. What do you see on Fox that’s within a thousand miles of the vile distortions that flow from the other networks?

    Make that “bizarre characterization.”

  106. BobX says:
    @Alden

    Current smokers with stage 1 COPD have a life expectancy of 14.0 years, or 0.3 years lower. Smokers with stage 2 COPD have a life expectancy of 12.1 years, or 2.2 years lower. Those with stage 3 or 4 COPD have a life expectancy of 8.5 years, or 5.8 years lower. Former smokers lose 0.5 years for smoking, 1.4 additional years for stage 2 COPD and 5.6 additional years for stage 3 or 4 COPD, compared with otherwise similar persons who do not have lung disease.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2672796/#:~:text=Current%20smokers%20with%20stage%201,years%2C%20or%205.8%20years%20lower.

    Your confirmed lack of understanding of COPD outcomes has not changed my evaluation of what you have to say.

    • Replies: @Alden
  107. FoSquare says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    Wasn’t Dr. Charles Lieber, head of Harvard’s Chemistry and Chemical Biology Department, arrested by the U.S. government around the same time or shortly before. Apparently he was employed by Wuhan University, under quite a lucrative arrangement. Just a thought. I don’t know how all this ties together, if at all. Wonder if he knew Conan’s father?

    • Replies: @Drakejax
  108. @utu

    What is being left out, is that a Taiwanese virologist and pharmacologist stated that the virus had 5 fragments, and that the US was the only country known to have all 5 fragments in its possession.
    https://www.newcoldwar.org/chinese-researchers-conclude-covid-19-virus-originated-outside-china/
    Japanese TV reported the same.

    The problem with the “Wuhan” theory, is that both Italian and Spanish authorities have announced that they have found the virus in sewage samples from March and April 2019, at least 6 months prior to the Wuhan “outbreak”.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain-science-idUSKBN23X2HQ
    https://truththeory.com/study-shows-covid-19-coronavirus-in-waste-water-samples-from-march-of-2019/
    While the Italian “story” states contamination or a false positive is possible, that could be extended to all testing everywhere.
    A more interesting article is one on the World Bank Program
    https://nationalfile.com/world-bank-document-lists-covid-19-program-ending-in-march-2025/

    A link in the above link (now not working) takes you to a World Bank document about Covid test kits, and their production starting in 2017. A screen shot is provided in the above link.
    If real, this is truly a Plandemic.

  109. anonymous[110] • Disclaimer says:

    Interesting tidbit from Dr. Barrett: Conan O’Brian’s germ warfare warning last year. Spain found it in frozen water samples from back then. Spring 2019 is when I got it – 3 weeks of dry cough + 2 weeks awesome runs, negative on every panel.

    Conan’s dad looked after his own with an urgent warning that could have saved a lot of lives. That he didn’t go public shows Dad knew he was leaking not just epidemiological evidence but collateral-level classified. Dr. O’Brien had a ringside seat but he didn’t want to get Liebered.

    CIA farmed out its germ warfare to universities for enhanced deniability in response to BWC treaty body pressure for verification measures. China is a leading advocate of verfication reforms,

    https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/ce/cegv/eng/cjjk/cjjblc/cjlc/t85361.htm

    so CIA targeted China. CIA’s primary objective was to discredit China as an advocate of biological weapons transparency that would reveal grave CIA crimes in universal jurisdiction. Ideally CIA wants to discredit the idea of verification as inherently adversarial and political. So if COVID-19 is kind of lame as germ warfare, that’s OK with CIA, given what they’re trying to do. They’re trying to simulate a lawless state of nature to discredit rule of law.

    • Replies: @Robert White
  110. @MLK

    What does “Iranian backed” mean? You are implying (as do the links) that Iran is orchestrating everything these groups do. That is like saying the US backed ISIS and Syrian “rebels” followed the direction of the US in who to attack, when to attack, and whom they were to kill. That the US had just massacred many Iraqis of the group that attacked the embassy would be, apparently no reason at all for Iraqis to be annoyed. Perhaps they should have had a demonstration outside the Embassy thanking the US for killing more Iraqis.
    That is not how these groups work. Osama bin Forgotten openly spoke about how they operate. They give them funding and resources, then the group chooses its own methods, targets, and time.

    • Replies: @MLK
    , @Curmudgeon
  111. The response of America’s national government to the Covid-19 outbreak was among the worst and most incompetent in the world, with only India and Brazil challenging our place at the bottom of the charts

    Just for reference purposes, which are the top 3? I think Taiwan would have to be one. The combination of death rate and economic consequences (with attendant social consequences, like a black man unemployed by COVID using a counterfeit $20) seems to be a measurement tool. Have you got a data-based COVID competency index?

  112. @Alden

    I haven’t seen, or looked for, the insurance industry’s actuarial tables recently, but your 78.54 number would be close to what they used to determine life insurance premiums about ten years ago. I recall those tables had women at 81 and men at 77.

  113. @brabantian

    My bet is on #5. The billionaire global elites, who have consolidated their reach as the power of technology and AI have exploded in recent years, realize that the world cannot go on as it is. They have more power than any government entity. Their plan, “the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development,” has been proceeding nicely, and is rapidly accelerating. Human beings are too disorganized and lack the intelligence to stop them. They will always be one step ahead of the rest of mankind. The world as we’ve known it is never coming back.

  114. lavoisier says: • Website

    It therefore appears that elements of the Defense Intelligence Agency were aware of the deadly viral outbreak in Wuhan more than a month before any officials in the Chinese government itself. Unless our intelligence agencies have pioneered the technology of precognition, I think this may have happened for the same reason that arsonists have the earliest knowledge of future fires.

    Extremely important information that raises questions of American culpability in the genesis of this virus.

    As the coronavirus gradually began to spread beyond China’s own borders, another development occurred that greatly multiplied my suspicions. Most of these early cases had occurred exactly where one might expect, among the East Asian countries bordering China. But by late February Iran had become the second epicenter of the global outbreak. Even more surprisingly, its political elites had been especially hard-hit, with a full 10% of the entire Iranian parliament soon infected and at least a dozen of its officials and politicians dying of the disease, including some who were quite senior. Indeed, Neocon activists on Twitter began gleefully noting that their hatred Iranian enemies were now dropping like flies.

    What is being implied here? While neocons would surely gloat over the death of the Iranian Amalekites, I am uncertain how this could suggest American culpability in the creation of this virus. It is rather indiscriminate in its actions, and are you suggesting that its effectiveness in killing Iranian leaders was somehow bio-engineered?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  115. MLK says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Is this supposed to be a defense of Ron Unz ignorantly claiming that “America suddenly assassinated Iran’s top military leader,” as if it occurred out of the blue?

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  116. I’ve always thought that the next negative discontinuity that mattered was my death.
    I agree with Steve that there’s a biggie well under way in the West (though minor, of course, compared to mine own) as future historians will no doubt note.

  117. Anon[367] • Disclaimer says:

    Speaking of fake news, I doubt there is a single forum on the net that is pushing more fake news than Yahoo News..

    • Replies: @Redman
  118. Accepting as true that US intelligence did know of the covid-19 outbreak in November, how do we nail down what the Chinese really knew before then? Do we really know that the Chinese weren’t equally or already more aware of what was happening in Wuhan in November than US spies? I do think Ron’s point about the news of this surfacing and then disappearing does raise some intriguing questions, but I’m not prepared yet to follow him to his conclusions.

    The other part of the hypothesis suggested here – what I will call tentatively as the Wile E. Coyote theory of the covid spread, the notion that the US (and perhaps Israel) seeded Wuhan and Iran with the virus that ended up boomeranging back to kill more Americans and devastate the US economy – seems more far fetched. Although I try never to sell short the utter stupidity of the US Government when it comes to grand strategy, it defies my sense of reality to think that the people who have the knowhow and opportunity to have staged a biweapon attack of that nature wouldn’t also have considered the extreme likelihood of the inabikity to keep a virus confined to China and Iran and the blowback that did in fact occur. How can Ron connect those dots? I’m not saying it couldn’t have happened that way, but somebody needs to do more ‘splainin’ for me to be on board with it.

    • Agree: Robert White
    • Replies: @Tor597
    , @Notsofast
  119. Poco says:
    @gone,gone beyond

    “I know of two people who died of Covid and neither were listed as Covid deaths.”

    I’ll take, things that never happened for 500 Alex.

  120. The USA Intelligence Community-CIA,NSA,DARPA, et cetera, and NATO, plus FIVE-EYES, and Israel, were all aware of the fact that the CIA unleashed a deadly Pandemic Pathogen that was manufactured by the CIA prior to the Wuhan deployment of the bioweapon at the end of the Wuhan Military Games.

    As a signatory and charter member of the 2014 Cambridge Working Group Call-to-Action on the USA manufacture of Gain-of-Function deadly Pandemic Pathogens in USA Biosecurity Level Four laboratories I, for one, know full well that the Trump administration vetoed the 2014 Cambridge Working Group moratorium on this type of bioterrorism and manufacturing of weapons of mass destruction.

    [MORE]

    http://www.cambridgeworkinggroup.org/

    Furthermore, I am a veteran Remote Viewer that actually witnessed the CIA and U.S. Army manufacture of this deadly man made Pandemic Pathogen SARS-2-nCoV-19 prior to the Wuhan deployment via glass ampule and one embeded CIA Intelligence Officer within the American contingent for the Wuhan Military Games which were used as cover for the covert operation that the CIA is wholly responsible for and not China.

    Fort Detrick U.S. Army soldiers built the chimera and then the CIA passed the research on to American university researchers for various other molecular manipulation via human cell experimentation. The chimera was built with a herd of pigs at Fort Detrick.

    The USA deployed the bioweapon post-September REPO hemorrhaging 2019 knowing that their only lifeline from that juncture onward was another round of Quantitative Easing and wholesale bailout of the Primary Dealer Credit Facilities of the top marquee Wall Street Investment Banks and Bank Holding Companies via Federal Reserve Chair-lackey Powell.

    Lackey Powell as Trump’s puppet in the Federal Reserve then bailed out all the banks and dark pool derivatives universe with another round of government stimulus paid for by the taxpayers of America for the gains in profit of the corporate sector and the banks.

    The CIA made the deadly Pandemic Pathogen and deployed it via the Wuhan Military Games because the brain trust in the CIA wanted some semblance of plausible deniability for the administration that funded the National Institute of Health for continued manufacturing of deadly Pandemic Pathogens because the Pentagon and CIA wanted it in light of the fact that they lost their collective balls in their boyfriends’ purse whilst collectively embroiled fellating the First Penis in the Whore House in Washington D.C.

    Bottom line is that the New York Times is controlled by the CIA intel wing of the establishmentarian dictatorship in Congress and the Military Industrial Complex USA.

    Americans are sitting on national bankruptcy whilst embroiled in hot war via bioterrorism against China due to their command of global Finance as the upcoming hegemon for world trade and commerce.

    As a Grumpy Marxist I, for one, take umbrage at anyone writing contradictory editorial that weakly attempts to pin the blame on unwitting China for this hot war of bioterrorism that was launched by the Central Intelligence Agency due to their own incompetence to govern themselves professionally.

    CIA modus operandi is historically available to all that want to read it regarding the use of bioweapons against any and all sovereign socialist administrations.

    Sincerely, Robert G. White

    [email protected]

    P.S. I wrote to the Editorial Board of the New York Times yesterday and have still not heard back from their CIA handlers in the Editorial Department of the New York Times.

    RW

    • Replies: @Polemos
    , @Corvinus
  121. Drakejax says:
    @FoSquare

    It could tie into the theory I posited in comment #15 above about a combined CCP-DNC/deep state operation. I said MIT guy, I think you are correct it was a Harvard guy.

    • Replies: @Tom Ratliff
  122. bob jones says:

    Is Ron a sperg?

    look- there is no direct evidence of lab escape

    however, ANYONE in biochem or virology who has looked at the furin cleavage sites on sars-cov-2 or the spike protein modifications sees CLEAR SIGNS of a vast evolutionary distance between this virus and any peer. They see evidence of bioengineering

    then you have the coincidence that the singularly most research intensive lab on the planet for bat coronaviruses was colocated in the epicenter of the outbreak.

    Scott Peterson was given the death penalty for less circumstantial evidence than this.

    bioinformatics scientists have made flat statements that this virus is highly unlikely to have evolved naturally. Literally everyone who has examined it has concurred. Highly unlikely in sciencespeak means “it didn’t happen absent a miracle.” There’s no precedent for this.

    there is NO KNOWN zoonotic origin species- anywhere. No population of people into whom this virus jumped over the course of years before acquiring ACE2 affinity.

    There is simply ZERO evidence for a zoonotic origin and a mountain of inferential evidence that it originated in China as a consequence of Gain of Function research, given that 2 high level scientists at WIV were involved in similar projects several years ago at UNC under Ralph Baric.

    Anyone who disputes this is flatly ignorant- the Indians were all over this in the first few weeks.

    China’s subsequent massive coverup of all sites, data, shutting down entire labs, placing a bioweapons army officer in charge of WIV- all of it. We have a sufficient circumstantial case behind the lab leak hypothesis.

    There exists NO credible alternative. None.

    Iranians got it? AND? So did a ton of others including Bolsonaro.

    The notion that the USA was “incompetent” in handling it? Fools- Nature Bats Last. There is nothing that could have been done. We are not omnipotent and in fact we are very far from it despite our hubris and massively misguided expectations.

    Recent research shows no correlation between death rates and lockdowns- NOTHING the governments did ANYWHERE materially affected excess deaths versus the do-nothing case which Sweden adopted.

    Lockdowns merely displaced deaths. This is a respiratory virus that is airborne which was highly communicable, unnaturally so. It is apparently too much for people to accept that humans are NOT in control of nature.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter, Redman
    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  123. @peterike

    …we KNOW that Covid is a fat nothing burger — the “just the flu bro” crowd was 100% correct…

    This is ignorant nonsense. Read an analysis of excess deaths in 2020 here: https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/mortality-in-the-u-s-noticeably-increased-during-the-first-months-of-2020-compared-to-previous-years/

    I won’t walk you through the analysis, on the assumption you can handle high school math, but the bottom line is that in the first 17 weeks of this year there were 1,014,090 deaths in the USA. Last year there were 973,364 deaths. IOW, an absolute increase of 40,726 deaths or a 4.2% increase. This a far from negligible amount. It’s reasonable to assume that the excess is due to SARS-COV-2 infections since there’s been no other significant change in the epidemiological environment.

    BTW, these figures significantly underestimate the total impact of SARS-COV-2 infections on US mortality for a variety of reasons, some too technical to go into here. One obvious source of underestimate is that the period in question occurred before the incidence of new infections and prevalence of sera positive testing had peaked.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  124. Ron Unz says:
    @lavoisier

    What is being implied here? While neocons would surely gloat over the death of the Iranian Amalekites, I am uncertain how this could suggest American culpability in the creation of this virus. It is rather indiscriminate in its actions, and are you suggesting that its effectiveness in killing Iranian leaders was somehow bio-engineered?

    I’d been thinking to provide my hypothetical outline of what I think probably happened, which I’d made in a lengthy comment a couple of weeks ago. But given the importance, I’d now added it above as an addendum to the article itself:

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/31000-words-missing-from-the-atlantic-and-the-new-york-times-sunday-magazine/#addendum-the-hypothetical-scenario-of-the-covid-19-outbreak

    I really should have originally included it in the main text.

    • Thanks: lavoisier
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @gay troll
  125. Ron Unz says:
    @Dan Hayes

    Is it only me, but does this article end midstream unfinished?

    Actually, a couple of these comments, including yours, have prompted me to add an addendum, which outlines my own hypothesis of what probably happened.

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/31000-words-missing-from-the-atlantic-and-the-new-york-times-sunday-magazine/#addendum-the-hypothetical-scenario-of-the-covid-19-outbreak

    I’d already provided it as a lengthy comment a couple of weeks ago, but the content is sufficiently important that it would be in the main text. I’d actually meant to include something like this when I began thinking of writing this piece a week or so ago, but it slipped my mind.

    • Thanks: Dan Hayes
  126. Derer says:
    @Sulu

    Enough evidence is available about Trump being a pro-Israel zealous -an issue hidden from his core supporters during his campaign; enough evidence is available about American Jews being collectively anti-Trump zealots – one must be disgusted by the slanderous display of 3 Jewish legal “experts” during the impeachment proceeding.

    There are numerous variants for this anomaly but the key to real one is still missing.

  127. Wade says:
    @Ron Unz

    On the other hand, the presence of the 300 military athletes from the US would have been ideal cover for introduction of a couple of agents who could have released the virus, and we know that’s right around the time that the viral epidemic began in Wuhan.

    How so? It sounds like a perfect time for a 3rd party to release the virus: a party who does not care that the US will be fingered for it by the Chinese and who also does not care that the Chinese will be fingered for it by the American press.

    If these were Americans who genuinely wanted to hurt China both in reputation and economically so that the US can delay world hegemony by China (or whatever), I cannot think of a worse occasion to release the virus than with 300 US military personal present. Just how many people does it take to release a virus anyway? Of course the Chinese would use the facts to blame us. Did the US deep state want to get fingered?

    On the other hand, I cannot imagine a better occasion for a 3rd party who thinks they will benefit from heightened tension between the US and China (or other nefarious purposes), while at the same time escaping suspicion, than the World Military Games near the Wuhan lab. The two superpowers will be so busy blaming each other that the actual perps would go unnoticed.

    Or am I misunderstanding your position?

    • Agree: Polemos
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @David C.
  128. @Ephemeral

    It would never be published.

    If leMoine even just slightly hints at the report being real. He would be slapped with labels and ruined.

    That is the state of the msm, freedom of the press and freedom of speech.

    Censorship is everywhere.

  129. @Dan Hayes

    It is meant to draw the readers to read the lemoines articles.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  130. @brabantian

    This is a useful list of standing theories. Nos.1 and 5 are obviously nonsense – unfortunately believed by the majority of the populace. These two are by far the most widely promoted theories as well – their promotion coming from the Deep-State controlled Mockingbird media (both “left” and “right”). No.1 being the Narrative pumped out by regime puppets while No.5 serving as the “rebel” position pumped out by the “opposition” media and assorted grifters (mostly “conservatives”). Like all successful propaganda both contain truthful elements (No.1’s point about President Kushner’s push to let it spread so the Wall Street casinos can remain open and No.5’s point about the Deep-State and various totalitarians using it as an excuse to grab power).

    Nos.2-4 and 6 are all very plausible theories. Especially of interest is Kevin Barrett’s post about Conan O’Brien’s father giving a warning to his son about it so far in advance. O’Brien pere works at the same place where the now-arrested Charles Lieber does. The series of articles here by Ron Unz along with the related articles published here have been outstanding in their willingness to explore the shadowy areas outside of both the official narrative and the equally misleading “opposition” story.

  131. @Nancy Pelosi's Latina Maid

    Just because it has the same name, even the same genome, doesn’t mean the epidemic was experienced the same way in China as it would be in the rest of the world.

    In China:

    1. It was brand new – there was no known treatment regimen, doctors were entirely guessing – acute respiratory infection, check – now make your best guess from there with the facts in front of you and people lining up outside the door
    2. It was unknown how many people were having it but not showing symptoms, so it was reasonable to assume the worst symptoms were ordinary, i.e.: panic!
    3. The air quality in China … hard to make a westerner understand this – but bad, on bad, day, on day, on year … everyone’s lungs are weaker
    4. Smoking
    5. Congestion

    Those factors alone will aggravate the condition and normally they do – so we don’t have SARS like they had SARS, we don’t have swine flu like they had swine flu. Panic didn’t set in, in the west, until Italy started looking like China, then people succumbed to the reasonable worry that this time, it’s different.

  132. @A Portuguese Man

    Portugeso: You have hit on the crux of Ron’s expostulation. True, the key is Iran, though Ron does couch his take in a modest but translucent sheathing. We must ask ourselves: “Cui Bono”? (Who benefits?). Thus, we must ask ourselves which global actor has the most to gain by the gradual demolition of Iran’s human infrastructure.

    Many will point at the puppet regime in the Di$trict of Corruption. We need to remind those folks that even the Administration is lower on the Federal scrotum pole then the shotcallers at Langley. But the shotcallers themselves are but a semi-rogue errand-boy/water-carrier for the little men behind the curtain–the inner-c0re of the Babylonian Blood Brotherhood–the Sanhedrin elders of Talmudic Judaism–the most chosen of the “Chosen”.

    Discernment among the various elites is closely akin to peeling an onion–layer after layer. The “respectable” take by the mass media of disinformation and mind-control is that the virus emerged from either a “wet-market” in Wuhan, China or a nearby bio lab. But we also know that there were European outbreaks even before those games for military athletes from various countries including the U$, which were held in that city in October of 2019. That event served as a screening mechanism for the blame-game which was already a part of the overall agenda.

    Another screening mechanism was international air-travel. Very convenient. All those outbreaks could be attributed to human vectors traveling across the globe at what for us is warp-speed. As a result the clearly weaponized (Fort Detrick and the University of North Carolina) virus was spread around various parts of the planet in such manner that the blame-game could have proper masking.
    Thus it is abundantly clear that the whole matter had been carefully planned and administered well before the actual spread.

    The matter of a federal government bewildered and blundering at the higher administrative levels has also served as a masking/screening mechanism of sorts. Blame Trump becomes a major meme for the ongoing agenda in which elements of the deep state (most particularly the CIA) working closely with a relative handful of prime actors in the Democrat National Committee (DNC) and cued-in media apparatchiks were able to pass the agenda onto Democrat governors who promptly grabbed the football and imposed severious lockdowns which have effectually destroyed the entrepreneurial class of small businessmen along with affecting millions of formerly employed individuals and families who are now threatened with food insecurity as well as homelessness. A recipe for disaster.

    Then we get the “I can’t breathe” George Floyd incident in Minneapolis and the closely coordinated protests of the heavily financed Black Lives Matter (BLM) organization (passed off as a “movement”) combined with the Antifa paid warriors who commit the rioting , arson and other demolition/fear tactics which have served to shatter the common-weal and most forms of community, segueing closely with the lockdown tactics.

    There is no question in my mind whatsoforever that this entire outrage defines the term “Plandemic”.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  133. Damocles says:
    @brabantian

    For the vast majority of the world, option 5 is demonstrably true and has been evident for quite some time. For hotspots like certain areas in Iran, Italy, Spain, and then also Brussels, London, and New York City, a case can be made for incompetence (unlikely), opportunism (a variant of option 4), malice (option 6 or other), or bad luck (a more virulent mutated strain or a more immune-compromised popuation).

  134. @Anonymous

    “Chinkypox”??? Braaah. Appears you have spent too much time reading “Epoch Times”, a very well financed disinformation print source spewing hatred against the deep state’s designated foreign-peril enemy. If that wasn’t the case, then anon208 is itself a disinformation organ.

  135. @Kevin Barrett

    True: As per the old Schmidt beer commercial: “Its been a long time a-brewing”.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  136. Only a small number of individuals were directly involved in this plot, and soon after the disease was successfully released in Wuhan, they decided to further safeguard America’s own interests by alerting the appropriate units with the Defense Intelligence Agency, probably by fabricating some sort of supposed “intelligence leak.”

    There were cases of plague in Nov. 2019 in the inner Mongolia. There might be some confusion.

  137. Tick Tock says:
    @peterike

    The Covid 19 is just another respiratory corona virus that has been used by the Deep State to destroy the Western World. Many experts have shown the virus arose naturally and not even in the Wuhan area where it was first detected. This article like most of the ones on the VIRUS is total BS and written by a now self proclaimed expert on a topic he knows nothing about and has no basis to be making any kind of judgement on. The Article he cites are like a science fiction novel not a science fact review.

    • Agree: VinnyVette
  138. @SimplePseudonymicHandle

    “Just because it has the same name, even the same genome, doesn’t mean the epidemic was experienced the same way in China as it would be in the rest of the world.”

    I appreciate your well-tempered response, but Nos. 1 & 2 presuppose this virus came outta nowhere as a complete surprise to all involved. I guess that’s where we’ll agree to disagree.

    And Nos. 3, 4 & 5 explain why Wuhan was picked to light this global rape and pillage. Plausible deniability.

    Small businesses shutter while Bezos ‘n Friends add billions to their checkbooks. There’s yer motive.

  139. Ruckus says:

    A likely source of discontinuity not mentioned in the article (apologies if I missed it) is the extraterrestrial angle, some kind of contact/disclosure/invasion, either real or staged.

    • Agree: Polemos
  140. @Drakejax

    China was represented at Event 201 in October 2019 by George Fu Gao:

    https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/players/gao.html

    Oxford and Harvard “trained”.

  141. canspeccy says:

    US Intelligence sources had disclosed to ABC News that in late November a unit of our own Defense Intelligence Agency had distributed a secret report describing a “cataclysmic” disease outbreak taking place in Wuhan, warning our military forces stationed in East Asia to take appropriate health precautions.

    Why, Ron, you think this proves that the US must have been responsible for the Covid pandemic, I do not understand. The US operates infectious disease and former biowarfare labs throughout Asia from the Ukraine to Thailand, including Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Kazakhstan, and Uzbekistan between.

    What do you think these labs do? Surely, in part, their function is to provide an early warning system concerning epidemic disease outbreaks. And in such work, they would need agents on the ground among whom are surely some among the 700,000 American citizens resident in China. So unless US intelligence services are entirely incompetent, why would they not have had knowledge of the outbreak of Sars-Covid2 prior to China’s announcement of the outbreak in Wuhan?

  142. JackOH says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    ” . . . [H]ad been booted out of the White House and had its funding cut by John Bolton.”

    I’ve read little of Ron’s stuff about the COVID virus, but his repeated use of “crazy”, “stupid”, “rogue”, “incompetent” to describe some of our leadership elites has me thinking of a deeply embittered patronage hack I know who’s driven by revenge, I suppose, for decades of petty humiliations, a strong need to settle scores with his tormentors, real or imagined, and who has no sense of public service in his being. I think he may be the only man I’ve met who ought to somehow be referred for a psychiatric eval to determine fitness for work.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @lavoisier
    , @Derer
  143. What was these “viruses” ?
    ————
    “In 2014, U.S. officials imposed a moratorium on experiments to enhance some of the world’s most lethal viruses by making them transmissible by air, responding to widespread concerns that a lab accident could spark a global pandemic.” …

    [read more at link below]

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-us-is-funding-dangerous-experiments-it-doesnt-want-you-to-know-about/2019/02/27/5f60e934-38ae-11e9-a2cd-307b06d0257b_story.html

    • Agree: Robert White
  144. Tor597 says:
    @Niebelheim

    The only proof we have of anyone knowing about the outbreak before China announced is America.

    You can’t know for sure that China didn’t know sooner, but you could say the same for any country. How do we know that Canada didn’t know before anyone else.

    Once again, the only country we can show that had prior knowledge of the outbreak is America.

  145. Dan Hayes says:

    JackOH (Item #143):

    On the contrary to being “embittered”, Ron is having the time of his life influencing in no small way this country’s political discourse!

  146. I have two words for all this: Fort Detrick.

  147. @utu

    Taiwan did not warn WHO. They inquired about the new pneumonia cases, but did not issue any warnings. You can see the email Taiwan’s Minister of Health sent to WHO in the following link:

    https://thegrayzone.com/2020/07/17/us-taiwan-lied-warning-world-health-organization-coronavirus/

    Lemoine was absolutely correct in his article to distinguish limited human-to-human transmission from sustained human-to-human transmission. The latter takes time and effort to establish. Here is an example of limited human-to-human transmission:

    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/h5n1-human-infections.htm

    Considering the enormity of its consequences, it’s understandable that the Chinese policy makers would have required the Chinese researches to collect sufficient sample and evidences to unequivocally demonstrate sustained human-to-human transmission before they would announce it.

  148. anonymous[124] • Disclaimer says:

    Surprising that the Democrats have not yet blamed the negative reaction of white “deplorables” against the rioting and looting being perpetrated by BLM and Antifa directly on “the Russians” and Putin rather than merely Trump and his nefarious “web of lies.” I mean, come on, it can’t be that these “sheeple” are merely concerned for their own personal safety and the integrity of their hard-earned life savings and property when it could be so politically advantageous to spout propaganda about how the Russians continue to brainwash them all. Even Mopey Joe Biden must recognise this low hanging fruit in America’s quadrennial national mud throwing contest that otherwise masquerades as elections meant only to further entrench the establishment.

  149. Polemos says:
    @Robert White

    What methodology and practice do you use for your Remote Viewing?

    When you say you

    actually witnessed the CIA and U.S. Army manufacture of this deadly man made Pandemic Pathogen SARS-2-nCoV-19 prior to the Wuhan deployment via glass ampule and one embeded CIA Intelligence Officer within the American contingent for the Wuhan Military Games which were used as cover for the covert operation that the CIA is wholly responsible for and not China,

    do you mean that you witnessed this during a remote viewing session or were you there “in the soma” (so to speak)?

    If it was a session, I’m curious to know what data your session produced, and this is where the system or method you use for RV comes in handy for structuring the information.

    If you do know that it is the one officer, can you describe this officer? Given you clearly have no love, and much contempt, for the CIA, I’m guessing that “protecting the lives of intelligence officers in the field” is not a significant concern for you — civilized people of high virtue don’t protect criminals and scoundrels and misanthropes, do they?

  150. Thim says:

    Iran took the opportunity to eliminate prominent opponents of the China deal, at that time going through final negotiations.

    You can add that to the other fake Covid deaths. 90% of the official death are bogus, falsely attributed.

    The globalists are satanists, magicians. Central to this magic is illusionism. Covid is one huge illusion.

    I fail to understand why any intelligent and fair commentator would blame Trump for any of this. Covid is part of a wide ranging color revolution designed to destroy him. Trump knew nothing about it until it was spreading in Wuhan.

    So he calls it the China virus, so what? It isn’t true, but it is good politics. What is he supposed to call it, to tell the truth, and call it the Deep State Virus? Wouldn’t they remove him from office?

    Now that Covid is completely gone and has mutated out of existence, it is way beyond time to reject the illusions, and open back up. It is over. In fact it never existed, not as it was presented. It was never more than a bad flu. The “cases” and “deaths” have been over 90% fake.

    So who will take the jab? Who is a true believer in the cult of Fauci?

    • Replies: @Robert White
    , @DaveE
  151. utu says:

    Epidemic of Covid-19 signs in Los Angeles already in December 2019

    Excess Patient Visits for Cough and Pulmonary Disease at a Large US Health System in the Months Prior to the COVID-19 Pandemic: Time-Series Analysis (Published on 10.09.20 in Vol 22, No 9 (2020): September)
    https://www.jmir.org/2020/9/e21562/

    “A significantly higher number of patients with respiratory complaints and diseases starting in late December 2019 and continuing through February 2020 suggests community spread of SARS-CoV-2 prior to established clinical awareness and testing capabilities. ”

    “We analyzed 5 years of data from a large Los Angeles–area health system using time-series methods to address whether there was an excess number of patients presenting for complaints of cough, or hospitalizations for respiratory ailments. These methods highlight how health care analytics coupled with EHR data can be harnessed for disease surveillance.”

    “It is plausible that some of the excess visits might be due to SARS-CoV-2 as studies of rapid sentinel surveillance and genome sequencing suggest community transmission of SARS-CoV-2 much earlier than initially thought. Studies in the United States and France found evidence for cryptic spread of the virus as early as December 2019 or January 2020, before community surveillance was actively implemented.”

    Satellite photos of Wuhan hospital car parks suggest earlier start of coronavirus outbreak
    https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3945445

    “A surge in the number of cars parked outside several Wuhan hospitals suggested that the coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak began months before it was officially reported, according to satellite photos studied by the Harvard Medical School.”

    “Professor John Brownstein’s team analyzed commercial satellite pictures of the car parks and found trends which though not conclusive, pointed in the direction of something happening in the area in late summer and early fall of 2019, according to ABC News.”

    Analysis of hospital traffic and search engine data in Wuhan China indicates early disease activity in the Fall of 2019
    https://dash.harvard.edu/handle/1/42669767

    “While queries of the respiratory symptom “cough” show seasonal fluctuations coinciding with yearly influenza seasons, “diarrhea” is a more COVID-19 specific symptom and only shows an association with the current epidemic. The increase of both signals precede the documented start of the COVID-19 pandemic in December, highlighting the value of novel digital sources for surveillance of emerging pathogens.”
    ____________________

    What if DIA used similar methodology as the Harvard team? This probably is done routinely by analyzing satellite images and overflight picture by massive “AI” computer systems. Anything out of ordinary is flagged. What if DIA used Taiwanese intelligence assets in China who probably outnumber all western intelligence assets there? And finally what if indeed the epidemic began in early Fall and was missed or ignored because of bureaucratic inertia and indolence of Chinese government.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  152. Larry says:

    Quillette is worthless. At least Unz amuses in its depraved insanity and does not censor its comments.

    • Agree: Derer
  153. @Godfree Roberts

    I read godfrys article back in april. Excellent. I thought the thrust of the article was to suggest that the initial outbreak was accidental from fort detrich. I sort of go with that idea which explains the really bad response from the US govt initially. As they would know that covid had been circulating in the background for months and early testing would show this. So what we see is a bunch of machavelian cowards making the best out of an incompetent military mistake.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  154. @brabantian

    Fascinating that your 3 replies are 2 votes for 5 and the third says 5 is obviously nonsense.

    There are two related phenomena: a virus / contagious disease and a governmental / institutional / power – – – filthy rabble interaction. I think we need two lists.

  155. Tsk tsk tsk… Mr. Unz. If you mean “incompetent” as far as the scamdemic goes… hahahaha… You’d first have to believe it was real and not all a pre-planned event. It makes them look incompetent in order to deflect attention from the outright thievery and totalitarianism. There’s nothing incompetent about it at all. In fact its devilishly clever and quite effective at pointing out just how many kowtowing pussies exist in the world. In the words of the immortal bard, former president and scion of intellectual rigour… “Mission accomplished”.

    • Agree: DaveE
  156. Derer says:
    @Anonymous

    It is more logical to suggest that China would use clandestine release of the virus in targeted country i.e. USA. There is no logical basis for infecting home country first. More plausible scenario pointing finger at the US fanatical military scientists desire to damage Trump economy in the election year and blame it on China.

  157. @Polemos

    The Remote Viewing session was instantaneous and not a planned event on my part. What I witnessed in terms of the CIA operative being instructed on how to deploy the bioweapon was merely a much older CIA Intelligence Officer instructing the much younger CIA operative in a small interview room.
    It could have been an interview room at Fort Detrick, but it was definitely instruction on USA soil as I Remote Viewed it. Moreover, the older CIA instructor was about 48 years old and white male slightly overweight at about 240-lbs. The younger CIA operative was about 24 at best and white male.

    I was not recording my session as it happened as I always merely commit what I Remote View to Long Term Storage in memory store. Recall is simple in that what is salient is easy to recall to awareness.

    I also Remote Viewed CIA involvement in the Controlled Demolition prior to 911 so that’s why I harbor unmitigated outright contempt for them as a collective of serial felons that act with impunity towards myself, and the world.

    The CIA is Public Enemy #1 for the world today as you well know.

    RW

    • Replies: @Polemos
    , @RadicalCenter
  158. DaveE says:
    @Nancy Pelosi's Latina Maid

    Notwithstanding its origin, do we all remember the insane propaganda we were receiving from China back in February?

    Brilliantly put. It was “War of the Worlds” 80 years later – media driven panic with no factual value whatsoever. Pure propaganda, pure psyop and obvious to anyone smarter than a Wuhan bat.

    It did, however, do a fantastic job of exposing the Liars. Then the Masked Morons. Then the Cowards afraid to offend some brain-dead housewives at the supermarket by standing up for their right to BREATHE.

    The Shlomovirus has done a brilliant job of exposing pure evil, too. Just NOT in China.

    Sickening. But not from any “virus” that probably doesn’t even exist.

  159. @Thim

    Trump is the administrator that allowed the veto of the 2014 imposed Cambridge Working Group moratorium on the manufacture of Gain-of-Function deadly Pandemic Pathogens on USA soil in USA Biosecurity Level Four laboratories.

    see http://www.cambridgeworkinggroup.org/

    Trump reinstated funding for the National Institute of Health USA to manufacture the deadly Pandemic Pathogen SARS-2-nCoV-19 so that Trump could use it to defer election outcome for Democrats and allow Israel to nuke Lebanon in the midst of a global outbreak where newsrooms were no longer congregating en masse to discuss the ruse and the totalitarianism.

    RW

  160. @Polemos

    As an addendum vis-a-vis safeguarding the lives of CIA Intelligence Officers I, for one, have Enhanced Reliability Status for security purposes and Government of CANADA work. As one that was raised by a
    Government of CANADA Chartered Accountant that worked a lifetime in Senior Rulings National Revenue CANADA, I was raised to act professionally at all times.

    Breaching my Government of CANADA security clearance is not something I would do.

    RW

    • Thanks: Polemos
  161. Ron Unz says:
    @JackOH

    I’ve read little of Ron’s stuff about the COVID virus, but his repeated use of “crazy”, “stupid”, “rogue”, “incompetent” to describe some of our leadership elites has me thinking of a deeply embittered patronage hack I know who’s driven by revenge, I suppose, for decades of petty humiliations, a strong need to settle scores with his tormentors, real or imagined, and who has no sense of public service in his being. I think he may be the only man I’ve met who ought to somehow be referred for a psychiatric eval to determine fitness for work.

    Well, I don’t think that’s a very fair appraisal. Frankly, my critical adjectives may be much too mild.

    I think the Covid epidemic plus accompanying lockdowns are shaping up to be the greatest disaster suffered by our unfortunate country since the Great Depression, perhaps even since the Civil War.

    The Chinese published the genome of the new virus on January 11th, and within a couple of days Germany and various other countries had created test-kits and begun mass-producing and using them to check for outbreaks.

    However, our own government refused to use the German kits and decided to have the CDC create their own, which took extra time. Then we discovered that the CDC kits produced were all defective and we had to start from scratch. Therefore, for several weeks we had no means of testing for the virus, and even afterward, test-kits were in extremely short supply. This allowed the virus to spread invisibly for a month or two, leading to many of the later outbreaks, in NY and elsewhere.

    Similarly, government officials told people not to wear masks, then later changed their minds.

    Now the more conspiratorially-minded people believe our elites deliberately allowed the virus to spread in order to destroy the American economy or reset the stock-market or something. Most Flu Hoaxers believe the government deliberately did those things even though the virus isn’t very dangerous, and that the lockdowns are intended to destroy freedom or something.

    I’ve very skeptical of those theories, and think the problem was mostly sheer incompetence. But whether you believe our elites are extremely incompetent or that they’re diabolical, I’d say they deserve a great deal of criticism, don’t you?

    • Replies: @JackOH
  162. Anonymous[118] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    “I first went down this rabbit hole back in the early 90’s when Pons and Fleischmann performed the experiment which later came to be known as cold fusion. I read the criticisms of the experiment and concluded that the critics desperately wanted in many cases for the experiment to not be true. The criticism was in many cases simply beyond the pale and there was so much of it.”

    I was in the physics department at MIT in the early 90s and this was huge news. Many of the best experimental physicists i knew jumped on this and tried desperately to reproduce this experiment without success. Did you ever try to reproduce their results? If you had you would have noted that many, not all of course, of those criticisms were justified.

  163. DaveE says:
    @Thim

    What is he supposed to call it, to tell the truth, and call it the Deep State Virus?

    I like “Shlomovirus”, personally. Kinda has a kitschy ring to it, too, don’cha think?

  164. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    Re: Covid infections prior to the first report from China:

    June 26, 2020: MADRID (Reuters) – Spanish virologists have found traces of the novel coronavirus in a sample of Barcelona waste water collected in March 2019, nine months before the COVID-19 disease was identified in China, the University of Barcelona said on Friday.

  165. @BobX

    Fair enough: the buck stops here. Anybody who was presiding would get the blame. Plenty of CEOs have been fired simply because they happened to take over right before the market as a whole decided it no longer wanted their product.

  166. gavishti says:
    @Ron Unz

    Please read the following two articles and tell me that China didn’t ‘know’ about the the Coronavirus ( SARS COV II) or it’s origins. When all along the leading Chinese virologists were playing around with the original virus.

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/07/17/a-proposed-origin-for-sars-cov-2-and-the-covid-19-pandemic/

    https://medium.com/@yurideigin/lab-made-cov2-genealogy-through-the-lens-of-gain-of-function-research-f96dd7413748

    From these articles it’s quite clear that the Chinese very well knew about this virus and no amount of obfuscation can deny this simple fact. Whether it escaped from their labs or through some other means will be decided when more facts become known.

  167. Derer says:
    @vot tak

    People must die because of DC (District of Corruption) abhorrent condescending character and inability to compete fairly on the world stage. They will fight by sinister means to prevent Sputnik V success in saving lives even lives of their own citizens. The post-war European brain in US is dying out and the new generations grew up on violence and drugs is sadly manifested by the decline in this once great country.

    • Replies: @vot tak
  168. anon[114] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Yes, yes, and yes. I was working at Sandia National Labs with a Q on NRC and DOE nuclear-related projects at the time of Pons & Fleischman. The magnitude of that effort made me feel at the time that it made no sense unless the US was using some type of energy system whose very existence was classified that was related to what they called cold fusion.

    I’ve never worked on naval nuclear projects and, also, it’s not classified information to say they follow their own rules on security, they have no mandate to share any information they develop with the civilian sector, and they don’t share.

    Ron Unz seems to be under the impression that the US lockdowns and the simultaneous and coordinated lockdowns all over the globe, e.g. Argentina, with the same health guidance was a rational response. It was most certainly an irrational response that seemed to be an economic hari kari, or self-suicide of the world economy.

    See the NY Post opinion piece Sept. 6 “Lockdown was a huge mistake” and Russia Today same day with an article saying it was all from a slipped digit. The masks are mouth yarmulkes to signify obedience and the handwashing ritual was criticized by Jesus.

    I believe what we saw last March was the first salvo in an attempt to bring about one world globalism with the main two factions being Bolsheviks versus Chinese Communists.

    Mark of the Beast. It’s the Apocalypse that Jesus foretold. America will soon see a civil war as the population divides between defenders of America and those who want globalist communism.

    • Disagree: Corvinus
  169. Ron Unz says:
    @gavishti

    Please read the following two articles and tell me that China didn’t ‘know’ about the the Coronavirus ( SARS COV II) or it’s origins. When all along the leading Chinese virologists were playing around with the original virus.

    When trillions of dollars and several conflicting Intelligence agencies are involved in a world crisis, I think that it’s a serious mistake to pay much attention to very lengthy “scientific-sounding” articles, unless you yourself happen to be a virologist or microbiologist and therefore have the professional expertise to evaluate the conflicting claims, along with the dozens of hours to check the sources provided.

    After all, producing scientific-sounding articles and distributing them via friendly journalists is what Intelligence agencies do in their black propaganda efforts. Prior to the Iraq War, there were all sorts of scientific-sounding articles detailing Saddam’s various deadly WMDs, including his biological weapons and his drones for attacking our East Coast. Non-scientists tend to be overly impressed by scientific-sounding articles.

    I actually read through that massive 16,000 word Deigin article a few months ago, and had a very different reaction:

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/our-facebook-ban-the-fatal-0-2/?showcomments#comment-3890285

    Meanwhile back in January, Whitney Webb had an article focusing on evidence of America’s own biowarfare research involved bat viruses:

    https://www.unz.com/wwebb/bats-gene-editing-and-bioweapons-recent-darpa-experiments-raise-concerns-amid-coronavirus-outbreak/

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    , @gavishti
    , @artichoke
  170. Thought this was settled, Ft D developed 19 from Sars and Mers, Mers sent to Winnipeg lab for intro of HIV receptors to achieve better gain of function on humans, all from The Indian articles that are well researched and written. Winnipeg provides mers/sars now morphed into cv 19 to Harvard via “theft’ by CCP members who were working for Canada’s main lab, for obvious future denials.

    Charles Leiber then provides it to his CCP handlers in Whuhan, via an arrested smuggler
    A CCP who were paying him top $ for years to do these trade offs in order to get around new laws on working on Deadly diseases in the |US.

    Leibers mistake was thinking he was good to go with his US handlers, who obviously have now positioned him( where is he by the way) as the fall guy, especially with his buddy Epstein blackmailing him to do so, as if the money somehow was not enough incentive.
    Epsteins office??? was next door to Leibers at Harvard!!

    Some evidence is the sudden death of the Canadian lead scientist Dr Plummer ( not the one in the Clue board game) who was the lead scientist for discovering how HIV passed from person to person, and that’s what he added to Mers to make it Cv 19. MERS was sent to Plummers lab in 2014!!

    Modified Mers(MIDDLE EASTERN RESPERATORY sic DISEASE) was used to take out the Iranians. Sars was a test run which would have moved/morphed into CV 19 then, 2002- 2003. if the official 9/11 story was rejected en masse!!

    The Indian reporting was top notch and all over it!!! Dr Plummer died in Nigeria last fall, just after the CCP in Winnipegs lab stole many vials of all kinds of bad diseases, ebola, mers, typhoid, bubonic plague. \he died of a H attack at a international medical conf on Infectious diseases!!

    At the conference they were giving Plummer an award for his AIDS/ HIV work!!! I can imagine the spooks sitting around a bottle of Irish, laughing their heads off over the news every day, as it relates to their evil machinations!!!

    It is a bio weapon, as such you need the vaccine or at least a treatment, hydroxy clorquine and zinc work it seems, Africans all have had hydro and zinc because it is used for treating malaria, and has been readily available in African for decades!! Thus the small amount of African deaths!!!
    All of this also shines a new light on the murders of Biovail in Canadas founder and his wife, the Shermans!!! Apparently, when their masters came calling , the Shermans said NO!!!!

    • Replies: @Robert White
  171. Art says:

    The best outcome would be that neither country is found guilty. Bad things would come to the citizens of the guilty country, which they would not deserve.

    I still do not believe that either country’s government, did this CV pandemic with malice.

    The bio labs of both governments are playing with fire – our anger should be pointed at the war machine military industrial complex – not each other.

  172. @David burford

    a bunch of machavelian cowards making the best out of an incompetent military mistake

    .

    Nailed it!!

  173. Polemos says:
    @Robert White

    Thank you for your responses. How did you come by your remote viewing training?

    • Replies: @Robert White
  174. @gavishti

    Synthetic recombinant bat SARS-like coronavirus is infectious in cultured cells and in mice
    Michelle M. Becker, Rachel L. Graham, Eric F. Donaldson, Barry Rockx, Amy C. Sims, Timothy Sheahan, Raymond J. Pickles, Davide Corti, Robert E. Johnston, Ralph S. Baric, and Mark R. Denison
    PNAS December 16, 2008 105 (50) 19944-19949;
    https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.0808116105
    Edited by Peter Palese, Mount Sinai School of Medicine, New York, NY, and approved October 14, 2008

    2AJF: Structure of SARS coronavirus spike receptor-binding domain complexed with its receptor
    DOI: 10.2210/pdb2AJF/pdb
    Classification: hydrolase/viral protein
    Organism(s): Homo sapiens, Severe acute respiratory syndrome-related coronavirus
    Expression System: Spodoptera frugiperda
    Mutation(s): No
    Deposited: 2005-08-01 Released: 2005-09-20
    Deposition Author(s): Li, F., Li, W., Farzan, M., Harrison, S.C.

  175. Corvinus says:
    @Ron Unz

    You cannot have your cake and eat it, too, Mr. Unz. On one hand, you tacitly encourage readers to peddle this “Fake News” mantra. On the other hand, you latch on to MSM stories–which I thought is other than trustful–that seemingly support your conclusions.

    You infer that we ought to trust ABC News, which cited four separate intelligence sources that a government report existed that Covid-19 is a bioweapon. Of course that report “exists”. Whether or not that report constitutes a “smoking gun”, at best, or is “solid evidence”, at worst, in an entirely different matter.

    But I thought that ANYTHING that comes from U.S. intelligence ought not to be trusted. Because Deep State. It would appear that those stories which supports your predisposed narrative, you take stock in, and for other stories that go against your truth grain, you vigorously question their veracity, at best, or totally discards, at worst.

    Ultimately, a fine number of readers here believe the source you use is part of FAKE NEWS. I would like to know, Mr. Unz, how you respond to their repeated accusations that ALL or MOST of the mainstream media reporting are lies. Here is one fine poster (Anon 223) stating that we ought NOT to trust the source you cite.

    I wouldn’t take the ABC news report at face value. Essentially, most of the Federal Government despises Trump, and want an excuse to make him look bad. Stating that the coronavirus was known since November would make Trump look bad since he didn’t do anything(though he does look bad…). This the same organization that states continuously that Trump had allied with Russia and that he had a hooker pee on him in a Russian hotel.

    Now, if we go by the assumption that you “carefully read” several MSM publications, then would it not be probable that other people also carry out this same course of action? Would not those people be then properly equipped to counter your line of thinking if they underwent a similar process?

    Or do you, Mr. Unz, possess a unique skill set they ultimately lack?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Robert White
  176. @Jus' Sayin'...

    It’s great that you focus on excess deaths, which most people don’t know about as a potentially useful indicstor. But let’s talk about excess deaths 2020 compared to 2019.

    The population of the usa increased by about 0.6% from 2019 to 2020:

    https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/population-growth-rate#:~:text=The%20current%20population%20of%20U.S.%20in%202020%20is,2017%20was%20325%2C084%2C756%2C%20a%200.64%25%20increase%20from%202016.

    If the 2020 age profile of the population stayed the same as 2019 — no change, say, in median age and in the number of quite elderly people — that would seem to predict about 0.6% more deaths in 2020 usa than 2019 without any change in the number of deaths caused by viruses/flus or appreciably hastened by flus/viruses.

    That leaves 3.6% in excess deaths to account for, but we can not simply assume that they were caused or appreciably hastened by covid-19 disease.

    The lockdown very likely caused any substantial drop in vehicular fatalities that the usa experienced from april through the present. That actually increases the number of excess deaths that COULD be attributable to covid-19.

    But then there are MANY excess deaths likely caused by the lockdown rather than the virus itself:

    — increased suicides from loss of family business, job, home, vehicle, freedom, human contact and hugs and handshakes and smiles, and hope;

    — refusal to seek treatment for chest pains and other warning signs of heart attack or stroke because of irrational fear of catching covid-19 in the hospital;

    — increased hastened deaths of elderly people whose children and grandchildren unwisely followed the cruel “order” never to touch and be in the same room with their ailing parent or grandparent

    I see no logically and medically sound explanation yet for why we can ignore the likelihood that many of the excess deaths were caused by the lockdown, rather than by the virus.

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
  177. Lost me when the author went full corona-tard.

    Full blown TDS and Corona-tard panic seem to go together.

    Odd thing, on another site someone was bemoaning the lack of Federal funds for domestic needs. I thought well, if they stop the wars abroad there would be funds available.

    Where is the Anti War crowd? Not in the streets. Where are the WTO protestors? Gone with the flowers. Were those protests completely fake?

    They have been trying to eliminate Al Qaeda for how long now? Started in the mid 1990’s under Bill Clinton. Then I remembered how Obama called AQ “Junior Varsity”. If AQ is JV, then who is the Varsity Team? C I A? They have been playing scrub games all these years.

    • Replies: @Notsofast
  178. JackOH says:
    @Ron Unz

    I’ve got a feeling my casual comment may have been misconstrued a bit, but your journalistic speculation offered plenty of food for thought. The man I’m thinking of is in a non-federal, non-health related position.

    ” . . . I’d say they [our elites] deserve a great deal of criticism . . .”.

    Yes, and maximally so. We’ve now exceeded the minimalist-response Sweden in COVID deaths per million at a terrific economic cost. How are we paying a Lambo price for a budget-lot beater result?

    I lean toward “extremely incompetent” as describing America’s awfully bad response to COVID. I’d also suggest that in America public health plays a distinct second fiddle to private health because America’s health care establishment wants to discourage national solutions, i. e. some sort of national health care scheme, to health care problems.

  179. @MacOisdealbh

    Very interesting, but you discount necessary plausible deniability as motive for all the publicly reported arrests. Moreover, deflection is CIA modus operandi always. Trump’s admin directly reinstated the USA permission that allowed the NIH to continue making deadly Gain-of-Function Pandemic Pathogens in his 2017 veto of the 2014 Cambridge Working Group moratorium.

    Fauci is NIH recipient of Trump’s largesse on the vetoed stoppage of Pandemic Pathogen manufacturing on USA soil.

    And yes I fully agree that the spooks in the CIA are laughing over a bottle of Irish.

    The Sherman Double Murder was carried out by his business partner that he was lending millions to for terrible business ideas. I Remote Viewed the Sherman Double Murder and reported it to the authorities in Law Enforcement. I’m owed $10 million CDN for the counterintelligence I gave them.
    The litigator acting for the surviving family members has already had his investigator Private Eye interview me, and I’m on the list for the $10 million reward money.

    True story!

    RW

  180. Corvinus says:
    @Ron Unz

    “I actually read through that massive 16,000 word Deigin article a few months ago, and had a very different reaction…”

    Which may or may not be accurate. Could not highly intelligent people draw conclusions that counter or contradict your own interpretations?

    “When trillions of dollars and several conflicting Intelligence agencies are involved in a world crisis, I think that it’s a serious mistake to pay much attention to very lengthy “scientific-sounding” articles…”

    I would disagree. One need not have a degree in that particular scientific field. Rather, a person who is intelligent, employs reason, and is willing to dig deeper into the content of the article through fact-checking has the skills required to generate a cogent analysis.

    “After all, producing scientific-sounding articles and distributing them via friendly journalists is what Intelligence agencies do in their black propaganda efforts…”

    Much in the same way that you are citing ABC News??? Are you not therefore be prepped to be duped?

    Of course, you have to show proof that the CIA by way of internal memos or through “whistleblowers” or by interviews of ex-intelligence officials that this is standard fare. Not to say that there have NOT been efforts made to engage in this action in the past (or at present), but to what extent and in what context needs to be thoroughly investigated.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  181. @bob jones

    We have a sufficient circumstantial case behind the lab leak hypothesis.

    Virologist Jonathan Latham and Allison Wilson think it may be a lab leak, though not necessarily a bioengineered virus. They postulate that a bat virus evolved into Sars-Cov-2 inside the bodies of some miners who worked at a place called Mojiang in 2012/2013. The miners were sick for months with symptoms very similar to Covid-19. The virus was collected for study from the sick men and may have escaped from the lab in 2019.

    https://www.independentsciencenews.org/commentaries/a-proposed-origin-for-sars-cov-2-and-the-covid-19-pandemic/

  182. @Majority of One

    Now that was some good affordable beer. Fondly remember drinking ice-cold squat or “stubby” brown bottles of Schmidt from time to time with my Dad.

  183. @Polemos

    [Too much off-topic “remote viewing” nonsense.]

    • Replies: @Polemos
  184. Denis says:
    @peterike

    Although I disagree with Mr. Unz about the coronavirus, he is hardly alone in his opinion on the matter, and there are numerous intelligent writers on this very site who share his opinion.

  185. Agent76 says:

    October 06, 2019 US Media Now Filled With Former Intelligence Agents

    After years in the shadows overseeing espionage, kill programs, warrantless wiretapping, entrapment, psyops and other covert operations, national security establishment retirees are are turning to a new line of work where they can carry out their imperial duties.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/52349.htm

    Dec 16, 2016 DESTROYING THE “FAKE NEWS” MEME, ONE FACT AT A TIME

    Doug Hagman, investigative journalist and radio host of the Hagmann & Hagmann Report joins me to discuss and dismantle the “fake news” meme that has been recently unleashed to discredit the work of alternative news media journalists and investigative researchers.

  186. Half Back says:
    @Really No Shit

    Your joking. To blame China for the corona virus is just like blaming the 1918 Kansas flu for 60 million deaths. Altogether now, death to Kansas death to Kansas, and I hope the chiefs today loose big time.
    It’s a cheap shot on Ron. Ron is classed as a ‘Internationalist’ where-by planetary-wide norms and values should be practiced, but unfortunately we fall well short as humans. I moderately favor his weaponized corona virus ‘thesis’, however I felt his death rate/victims narrative of tens of millions deaths still to be adjudicated. On this point I did a CDC formulation which has the death rate at 3% overall, however with assumptions of asymmetric patients/persons ( overall infected) and poor classification of deaths brings a rate of between 1.62% to 2.26% depending on parameters.

  187. @Ron Unz

    What a perfectly coherent account (in the addendum; as far as I can see) of what might have happened. But, contrast and compare, what do you make of commenter Robert White’s detailed account (supra)? If your version is close to correct that one would have to be a clever attempt at dividing the enemy, would it not?

  188. @Robert White

    I remote-viewed you smoking some reeeeally strong weed before you wrote that claim.

  189. Notsofast says:
    @Niebelheim

    I think the dot that ron does not connect is that the deep state neocons wanted blow back to fully wreck the place up because they have all jumped ship to the democratic party. Joe biden is their wet dream, he wont question anything just smile and wave like the queen. Harris will be obama with tits. This will also end any investigations into brennon and clapper as well as serving their billionare clients. Its a win win for them but china didnt work out as well as expected.

  190. Corvinus says:
    @Robert White

    “Furthermore, I am a veteran Remote Viewer that actually witnessed the CIA and U.S. Army manufacture of this deadly man made Pandemic Pathogen SARS-2-nCoV-19 prior to the Wuhan deployment…”

    Allegedly witnessed. IF indeed you were part and parcel to what amounts to criminal activity, then you have an absolute duty to inform the general public by hook or by crook. Certainly, you have allies in your military and intelligence circles, as well as sympathetic members of Congress, who share your utter contempt for such conduct, right?

    See, it is highly suspect that you come onto this blog and make this grandiose statement, especially when you later say…

    “I was not recording my session as it happened as I always merely commit what I Remote View to Long Term Storage in memory store. Recall is simple in that what is salient is easy to recall to awareness.”

    So there is only YOUR WORD, rather than damning visual evidence, that this action took place. And we should believe you because…

    “Breaching my Government of CANADA security clearance is not something I would do”.

    So revealing what you apparently witnessed on a blog–something that is highly secretive–is NOT breaching your security clearance??? Do not your overlords watch your every move?

    “Bottom line is that the New York Times is controlled by the CIA intel wing of the establishmentarian dictatorship in Congress and the Military Industrial Complex USA.”

    I imagine you have specific evidence in the form of internal memos and recorded conversations that demonstrate a clear link. So, IF that being the case, you have a responsibility to “blow the lid open”, even if that means risking your own life in the process. I mean, exposing to the American people this malfeasance of epic proportions is of paramount importance, right?

    • Thanks: Polemos
  191. vot tak says:
    @Derer

    The usa is an israeli colony.

  192. Ron Unz says:
    @Corvinus

    You cannot have your cake and eat it, too, Mr. Unz. On one hand, you tacitly encourage readers to peddle this “Fake News” mantra. On the other hand, you latch on to MSM stories–which I thought is other than trustful–that seemingly support your conclusions.

    You infer that we ought to trust ABC News, which cited four separate intelligence sources that a government report existed that Covid-19 is a bioweapon. Of course that report “exists”.

    Read the material more carefully. The secret DIA report *never* suggested that Covid-19 was a “bioweapon.” It merely *described* the “cataclysmic” disease outbreak taking place in Wuhan…more than a month before anyone in China was aware of it. I think such extreme foreknowledge comes close to being smoking-gun evidence of culpability.

    Moreover, the ABC News story constituted a case of “admission against interest.” The US Intelligence sources obviously didn’t recognize the extremely significant logical implications of the secret report they were revealing. Indeed, soon afterward an official DIA spokesperson denied the existence of the report, while top DIA officials refused any comment. But Israeli TV confirmed that the November report indeed existed and had been distributed to Israel and our NATO allies.

    Media stories are like any other type of evidence, and they should be carefully analyzed in a source-critical manner. Four independent Intelligence sources seems like pretty strong evidence and the Israeli confirmation nails it down.

    • Agree: Robert White
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  193. Notsofast says:
    @SaneClownPosse

    Last 3 paragraphs spot on and these questions need to be asked again and again until someone answers them. Aq, mh, is, our boys. First 2 paragraphs lol.

  194. @Wade

    Like Ron’s a coherent account with insufficient hard evidence to be conclusive. At the risk of forgetting something crucial as I fire this back may I suggest that the nearest Ron has to a smoking gun is the intelligence reports that I have sought to give an alternative explanation to with increasing elaboration as to small ambitious outfit getting a whiff ant that being turned into an arse covering briefing for the President of which a variant is that the President was, possibly via and because of his known failures to read briefings, being set up.
    Your comment?

    • Replies: @Wade
  195. @anonymous

    The CIA is following orders from on high USA & British BIG Pharmacology as well as the Gates Foundation which is bankrolling operations. USD Hegemon supremacy was based upon Petrodollar USD which is about to crash outright due to the dark pool derivatives betting universe that cannot be re-inflated after the demise of the Fractional Reserve Banking System post-Lehman Brothers debacle.

    The USA cannot print their way out of debt or deficit. Infrastructure is rotted to the core throughout all states of the union. Manufacturing was off-shored to China back in the 80s.

    Smoot-Hawley Act II is not the way to Make America Great Again, but it sure as Hell is a great way to insolvency for the Republican Party and the Chicago School of Economics.

    The United States of America is merely a third world banana republic headed up with a tin pot dictator like Trump.

    RW

  196. Ron Unz says:
    @Corvinus

    “After all, producing scientific-sounding articles and distributing them via friendly journalists is what Intelligence agencies do in their black propaganda efforts…”

    Much in the same way that you are citing ABC News??? Are you not therefore be prepped to be duped?

    But the ABC News story was *not* a scientific-sounding article, filled with complex charts and graphs only intelligible to professional virologists. ABC News simply stated that four independent Intelligence sources had informed them that our DIA had distributed a secret report in November describing the “cataclysmic” disease outbreak taking place in Wuhan…more than a month before there *was* a “cataclysmic” disease outbreak taking place in Wuhan. And Israeli TV confirmed that their government had received that same DIA report in November.

    Either the DIA report existed or it didn’t. Scientific-looking charts and graphs weren’t involved.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  197. I haven’t read the articles but I’ve long suspected this as a germ-warfare intel operation by the only country in the world that has clearly stated that it wants to dominate every square inch of this (or any other planet). The by-word today in foreign policy circles is as it has been for at least a quarter century–“it’s either us or the Chinese and it better be us.” The US blob has been as continues to be utterly fanatical about this notion for a variety of reasons I won’t get into now but money is involved, clearly.

    • Agree: Robert White
  198. @Kratoklastes

    Plausible reasoning. Almost “Agree”

  199. lavoisier says: • Website
    @JackOH

    I’ve read little of Ron’s stuff about the COVID virus, but his repeated use of “crazy”, “stupid”, “rogue”, “incompetent” to describe some of our leadership elites has me thinking of a deeply embittered patronage hack I know who’s driven by revenge, I suppose, for decades of petty humiliations, a strong need to settle scores with his tormentors, real or imagined, and who has no sense of public service in his being. I think he may be the only man I’ve met who ought to somehow be referred for a psychiatric eval to determine fitness for work.

    I think Ron has described our elite leadership rather well.

    If anything he is giving them too much credit.

    • Agree: JackOH
  200. utu says:

    Let’s look at the DIA report which is the keystone of Ron Unz hypothesis.

    Here is ABC article:

    Intelligence report warned of coronavirus crisis as early as November: Sources (April 8)
    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/intelligence-report-warned-coronavirus-crisis-early-november-sources/story?id=70031273

    “Those analyses said China’s leadership knew the epidemic was out of control even as it kept such crucial information from foreign governments and public health agencies.”

    “The report was the result of analysis of wire and computer intercepts, coupled with satellite images.

    “”Analysts concluded it could be a cataclysmic event,” one of the sources said of the NCMI’s report. “It was then briefed multiple times to” the Defense Intelligence Agency, the Pentagon’s Joint Staff and the White House. ”

    Here is official denial from National Center for Medical Intelligence (DIA)

    Pentagon Bashes Bombshell ABC Report, Denies U.S. Intel Identified Coronavirus Threat in November
    https://www.nationalreview.com/news/pentagon-bashes-bombshell-abc-report-denies-u-s-intel-identified-coronavirus-threat-in-november/

    “As a matter of practice, the National Center for Medical Intelligence does not comment publicly on specific intelligence matters,” Day said. “However, in the interest of transparency during this current public health crisis, we can confirm that media reporting about the existence/release of a National Center for Medical Intelligence Coronavirus-related product/assessment in November of 2019 is not correct. No such NCMI product exists.” (Wednesday night)

    Channel 12:

    Cited by i24 News (April 16)
    https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/1587059866-report-us-warned-israel-about-covid-19-in-november

    Cited by Russia Today (April 17)

    “Still in November, the IDF held a first discussion regarding what impact this unknown disease would have were it to reach the Middle East. How would we be affected? How would it affect our neighbors?”

    ______________________
    Let’s assume the report indeed exists. Why was it leaked? Both to hurt China and to hurt Trump that China was hiding the epidemic and Trump knowing about it ignored it.

    Let’s assume that Chine indeed was hiding the epidemic or that the epidemic was already ‘visible’ in early November. How could DIA learn about it? According to Ron Unz only because of the prior knowledge of being a perpetrator who started the epidemic. But if people were indeed getting sick and the pattern was developing through hospital visits this kind of data can be picked up via phone monitoring and satellite image analysis. You do not need agents on the ground though perhaps at some point you would like somebody to visit few emergency room and see what was happening.

    This kind of intelligence gathering was done post facto by Harvard researchers who published their paper on Harvard website:

    Analysis of hospital traffic and search engine data in Wuhan China indicates early disease activity in the Fall of 2019
    https://dash.harvard.edu/handle/1/42669767
    https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/42669767/Satellite_Images_Baidu_COVID19_manuscript_DASH.pdf?sequence=3&isAllowed=y

    “…recent evidence suggests that the virus may have already been circulating at the time of the outbreak. Here we use previously validated data streams – satellite imagery of hospital parking lots and Baidu search queries of disease related terms – to investigate this possibility. We observe an upward trend in hospital traffic and search volume beginning in late Summer and early Fall 2019. While queries of the respiratory symptom “cough” show seasonal fluctuations coinciding with yearly influenza seasons, “diarrhea” is a more COVID-19 specific symptom and only shows an association with the current epidemic. The increase of both signals precedes the documented start of the COVID-19 pandemic in December, highlighting the value of novel digital sources for surveillance of emerging pathogens.”

    So what if few researchers from Harvard did was done by DIA routinely on much larger scale with much more resources. In my previous comment I wrote:

    “What if DIA used similar methodology as the Harvard team? This probably is done routinely by analyzing satellite images and overflight picture by massive “AI” computer systems. Anything out of ordinary is flagged. What if DIA used Taiwanese intelligence assets in China who probably outnumber all western intelligence assets there? And finally what if indeed the epidemic began in early Fall and was missed or ignored because of bureaucratic inertia and indolence of Chinese government.”

    Obviously Ron Unz will dismiss Harvard’s team study as another dis-info work to soften up the negative impact of the DIA leak and undermine his hypothesis.

    • Replies: @Tor597
    , @Tor597
    , @Ron Unz
  201. Covid originated in the Wet Markets. Dont forget Spanish Flu originally came from Chinese laborers, while 1969 Honk Kong flu and 1957 flu were from China wet markets

  202. anon[636] • Disclaimer says:

    I want to repeat myself here, clearly.

    The Deep State, or subset thereof, that did this had a hydroxychloroquine (or something similar) for their loved ones to take. It could be a natural plant extract for all we know. They have families too. Conan O’Brian’s dad warned his son about doing podcasts from home months before this happened. He knew ahead of time.

    • Thanks: TKK
  203. David C. says:
    @Wade

    I think Ron Unz may be unable to see that it’s Israel that would have the most to gain and the least to lose if they pulled off a 9-11, again, only much bigger this time.

  204. @Corvinus

    Unz has been writing for many years and most veteran writers that also run blogs get tired of dealing with fools of all variety. Unz writes enough to know that all commentary is valid, but his editor self wants things interpreted the way he sees the world via relativity.

    He knows better IMHO.

    RW

  205. The biowarfare weaponry tap root, maybe eradicated in the future?! Barbarians are barbaric, since before recorded history. Mass extinction of the earth’s energies, long in the tooth. Climate change isn’t new. GREAT website Ron Unz, thanks for your gene of altruism! Intuit after reading 2021-2025, China’s vision. As Napoleon warned, no longer sleeping is the mighty lion China. The Pueblo and Hopi Peoples have told of a fifth world. Nuclear holocaust x4? Life as a mysterious puzzle rearranges the imaginations. Again, Ron Unz, appreciate your website as a powerful “*brushfire”, *Thomas Jefferson (I think 🙂

  206. All the back and forth on the credibility of Ron Unz’s hypothesizing aside, with or without reliable and incontrovertible evidence, two simple questions come to mind: will the public ever know the truth on the weaponizing of Covid-19? Even that aside, can anyone here for one moment honestly put it past this or any other American government to deliberately spread this or any other pathogen to other countries without batting an eyelid? Nuff said.

  207. Ryan2 says:

    Is there ever truly a need to add ballistic to missile?

  208. TKK says:

    Not to be too literal, folksy or anecdotal, but I still have not met one person who has had COVID 19. I meet new people almost everyday.

    I still haven’t met a person who knows a person who had COVID 19.

    Does that add up?

  209. DaveE says:
    @anon

    I first went down this rabbit hole back in the early 90’s when Pons and Fleischmann performed the experiment which later came to be known as cold fusion.

    Yeah, right. Sure ya’ did, Shlomo. The same Pons and Fleischman who first calculated the “critical mass” of Uranium 235 required to initiate a chain reaction, i.e. a bomb… in what was it ….. about 1937?

    Nice try, Moische.

    Read Richard Rhodes’ “The Making of the Atomic Bomb” if you need to refresh your (alleged) “memory”. Or at least, be able to sell your BS to earthworms.

    Go waste your time elsewhere. We Goyim are onto you and your lying ilk.

  210. Tor597 says:
    @utu

    Utu, this is a pretty weak argument.

    How is the US supposed to know about a novel deadly emerging outbreak just by observing satellite imagery? They are going to warn Isreal about this because there were more cars parked in a hospital?

    Just by looking at increased patient volume, you could just as easily assume it was a severe flu season. But the US just knew it was going to be a severe pandemic?

    By the way, anyone in the medical profession will tell you that the winter season of 2019 was a brutal “flu” season in the US. Many many people died and got sick. So the increase in patient volume could also be seen in America, yet where are the wire reports of China warning Russia?

    You can see this slowly start to trickle out into the mainstream press. For instance here is a daily mail report that talks about a large increase in patients getting sick in America months before the cases in China.

    https://mol.im/a/8718753

    Of course the Daily Mail assumes this means China was lying about the virus even longer than they thought lol. This is China Derangement syndrome here.

    https://mol.im/a/8718753

  211. Tor597 says:
    @utu

    Utu, how would you analyze this situation if it was the reverse?

    Supposing there was a sudden outbreak in America in December that turned into a pandemic. And there were Chinese reports warning Russia over a month before any American knew about it.

    Do you really think you would be proposing that China only knew because they looked at Satellite images?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  212. Ron Unz says:
    @utu

    Let’s look at the DIA report which is the keystone of Ron Unz hypothesis.

    Thanks for providing the helpful links and excerpts from ABC News, Israeli TV, and other sources central to the alleged November DIA report.

    The first line of defense against my analysis has been to claim that the DIA report never actually existed, but the weight of evidence on the other side seems too strong. So Wiz, you, and various other commenters have now begun to argue that the report did indeed exist (and that the official DIA denial was dishonest), but that the DIA could have discovered the ongoing Wuhan outbreak in early November, using satellite and other electronic means. You now support this hypothesis by pointing to a June 2020 Harvard research study that allegedly used similar electronic means to come to similar conclusions:

    So what if few researchers from Harvard did was done by DIA routinely on much larger scale with much more resources….What if DIA used similar methodology as the Harvard team? This probably is done routinely by analyzing satellite images and overflight picture by massive “AI” computer systems. Anything out of ordinary is flagged.

    Okay, let’s carefully consider this hypothesis.

    (1) A crucial characteristic of Covid-19 is that it is *extremely* contagious absent strong public health measures. For example, in New York, Lombardy, Madrid, and Paris, just a handful of cases grew within a few weeks to many, many thousands, and became uncontrollable local epidemics. In all those cities, the prevalence of the disease went from invisibly small to absolutely overwhelming before the local authorities could effectively react.

    (2) According to the investigative reporters of the WSJ, the NYT, and all our other Western journalists sources, the Chinese government discovered the new viral disease around the end of December, locating a total of 25 suspected cases by that date, with the first known death occurring on Jan 11th:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-cdc-built-to-stop-pandemics-stumbled-when-it-mattered-most-11597675108

    https://www.nytimes.com/article/coronavirus-timeline.html

    (3) This seems quite plausible and consistent. A couple of dozen known cases by late December grew into nearly 10,000 by the end of January, reflecting a 50-fold increase in one month despite increasingly strong local public health measures.

    (4) Now let’s consider the Harvard/DIA claims that as early as November satellite imagery and other electronic measures could have been used by the DIA to remotely detect the growing outbreak in Wuhan, e.g. monitoring unusual traffic conditions in the parking lots of Wuhan hospitals.

    (5) Wuhan is a very large city, with a population of 11 million, almost 40% larger than NYC. October and November are the beginning of the regular flu season, and presumably hundreds of thousands of Wuhan residents get the flu every year, with some fraction of them requiring hospitalization. Tens of thousands of Wuhan residents also require trips to the local hospitals for all sorts of other typical ailments and medical procedures. The Chinese authorities claim that they failed to initially detect the two dozen early Covid-19 cases because the virus was entirely new and these cases represented a tiny needle in a gigantic haystack of ordinary illnesses, which seems pretty plausible to me.

    (6) The Harvard/DIA claim is that satellite imagery revealed an *enormous* increase in Wuhan hospitalizations in October and November, far beyond what would be expected in a typical flu season, and that these additional hospitalizations were presumably due to Covid-19.

    (7) For a city of 11M, how many additional hospitalizations would be required to produce such dramatic satellite imagery results that they triggered international red-flags and prompted the DIA to distribute a secret report to all NATO members warning of a “cataclysmic” disease outbreak? I’d assume thousands of additional Wuhan hospitalizations, or more likely tens of thousands.

    (8) So the Harvard/DIA claim is that Wuhan already had thousands or more likely tens of thousands of Covid-19 hospitalizations by October or November. Since only a fraction of Covid-19 cases require hospitalization and there is a significant time-lag between infection and hospitalization, they’re claiming that Wuhan already had many tens of thousands of active Covid-19 infections by October or November.

    (9) We know that Wuhan implemented absolutely no public health control measures until mid-January. If Wuhan had (say) 50,000 active Covid-19 infections by early November, the city would have had millions of infections by the time control measures were implemented a couple of months later. That is totally incorrect, and disproves the hypothesis. Indeed, the Harvard/DIA claims are utterly ridiculous, as implausible as Victor Davis Hanson’s speculation that 50% of California’s population had gotten infected by Covid-19 during 2019 without anyone noticing.

    (10) I’ll admit I only glanced at the Harvard study, which included (alleged) satellite photos of the Wuhan Tianyou Hospital parking lot that seemed to be noticeably more full on some particular day in October 2019 than on some day in October 2018. A modern city of 11M has many, many hospitals, and presumably thousands of such daily photographs would need to be compared to draw any conclusions. Maybe the Wuhan flu season was worse in 2019 than 2018. Those photos reminded me of the ones taken of Saddam’s (non-existent) mobile biowarfare labs that were used to justify our ill-fated Iraq War.

    (11) I’m unfamiliar with the five co-authors of the Harvard study, but I’m a bit surprised that they would either be unaware that Covid-19 was highly contagious or fail to recognize the consequences of an exponential infection growth-curve between early November and mid-January.

    Obviously Ron Unz will dismiss Harvard’s team study as another dis-info work to soften up the negative impact of the DIA leak and undermine his hypothesis.

    Yes, that sounds like a pretty plausible hypothesis to me. I can see the DIA officers not understanding the nature of an exponential infection-growth curve, but can’t quite see how a team of Harvard researchers could make the same mistake without very strong “guidance.”

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
    , @utu
  213. Ron Unz says:
    @Tor597

    Supposing there was a sudden outbreak in America in December that turned into a pandemic. And there were Chinese reports warning Russia over a month before any American knew about it.

    Do you really think you would be proposing that China only knew because they looked at Satellite images?

    LOL. It’s even worse than that…

    Suppose 300 Chinese military officers visited Chicago, and not long afterward, the American government discovered that a mysterious new disease had suddenly appeared in that city, soon becoming a huge national epidemic.

    Then we learned that a month before anyone in Chicago had noticed the growing new epidemic, the Chinese government had sent a secret report to the Russians, warning them of a “cataclysmic” disease outbreak taking place in Chicago, saying they had figured it out by analyzing satellite images…

    • Agree: Iris, lavoisier
    • LOL: Tor597
    • Replies: @Tor597
    , @Tim too
  214. Tor597 says:
    @Ron Unz

    When you put it that way, it is pretty hilarious.

    You can even crank up the level of ludicrous by adding event 201.

    Imagine everything you said above is correct, and that China held a simulation of a pandemic in October predicting the Corona Virus even by name.

    Imagine all of these “coincidences” happening and then then President Xi starts calling it the American Virus and the Chinese media starts showing pictures of hillbillies eating roadkill.

    Would anyone here really buy that narrative for a second?

    Only by reversing the roles and placing the “sneaky” Chinese in the agitator role and Americans as the victim can most Americans see how crazy this narrative is if true.

  215. @Ron Unz

    There’s zero evidence that their mild, temporary illness had anything to do with Covid-19.

    I had assumed, out of total ignorance of how these things are done, and from having read some other similarly conspiratorial pieces, that it was assumed that the American agents were previously innoculated with the virus and then spread it by becoming near other people in the city. The quoted sentence implies this is not how you think it was done. So, how was this done? How *can* this be done other than by the method I have outlined? (Anyone with knowledge or an opinion is welcome to reply, of course.)

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  216. Ugetit says:
    @anon

    The first one that talks gets out.

    And when the talkers all finish, it’s back to the pit again.

    Damn ’em all!

  217. Ugetit says:
    @gone,gone beyond

    Covid is very real; anyone in denial is just in the first stage of grieving … and, by now, revealed as an utter moron.

    Our nearly complete of freedom due to the Covid plandemic is very real; anyone in denial is just in the first stage of grieving … and, by now, revealed as an utter moron.

  218. Rocker says:

    Ron, thank you for your excellent work. I was blown away by many of your articles, but especially by the one called Racial Discrimination at Harvard.
    The NYT recently published a piece called “Faces of Power” in which it asserts that 80% some 900 power holders in the US are “white.” Can you analyze the lists in this sprawling article to discern how many of these “whites” in different categories are Jewish? I think that would be revealing, and I think that your analysis would shine a lot of light on the subject. I can’t imagine anyone else better equipped to do such an analysis. Thanks!

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  219. Wade says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I can’t even understand those sentences.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  220. The big elephant in the room here is the astonishing number of athletes who are very adamant that they got Covid-19 in Wuhan in October — they claim they came down with *very* similar symptoms at the time — and yet, as of now, per my google searches, *not one of them has been tested for Sars-Cov-2 antibodies*.

    My astonishment is compounded by the fact that even in Iran reporting about sick athletes has been — per the following story — banned!

    https://en.radiofarda.com/a/eleven-athletes-in-iran-have-died-of-coronavirus-infection/30502659.html

    One would expect that the possible victims of this alleged ploy would be extremely eager to get to the bottom of this and test every one of those athletes. A Chinese spokesperson from the country’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs publicly acknowledged the possibility that the U.S. brought the virus to China on that occasion. Yet, not one Chinese athlete has been reportedly tested for antibodies.

    Exactly the same thing happened in our “free” world. No one got tested. Or anyway no one was allowed to publicize it if they did.

    Why?

  221. CamFree says:

    Ron, granted that this bio-warfare attack originated with the Anglo-Zionist or Neocon Deep State, however I think you’ll find that China simply functioned as the scapegoat for the operation, and that the intended enemy target was always the last remaining economic and personal freedoms of the populations of the West, who are well practiced now at having their world turned upside-down for the worst on the back of an obvious scam….

  222. Tim too says:
    @Ron Unz

    So what was the intention of the month early release about the cataclysmic disease?

    Is this where the ‘general incompetence’ feature comes in?

  223. The notion of an uncontrolled disease epidemic never crossed my mind, but our Covid-19 outbreak—together with the totally incompetent governmental response and the resulting social and economic disaster—seems to fit the bill quite nicely, even producing a triple-header of national calamities.

    I am not sure what to make of this para.

    The CDC provided this graph a while ago:

    [MORE]

    You can see it on this version of the page it came from: https://archive.is/IeEtf

    However, they have removed the graph you see above and replaced it with separate graphs for each age range, perhaps to make it hard to actually see the full picture.

    So, for ages 0 to 54 it does not look like an epidemic to me. For the ages above that, you can look at it as SARS-CoV-2 pulling forward death that would probably have happened this year anyway, as suggested here:

    It seems likely to me that the correct response to SARS-CoV-2 was to protect the elderly and not go to these stupid lock downs.

    So, the government incompetence seems to have been displayed by certain state governments and the Democrats.

    Is that what you were referring to?

  224. Ron Unz says:
    @Brás Cubas

    I had assumed, out of total ignorance of how these things are done, and from having read some other similarly conspiratorial pieces, that it was assumed that the American agents were previously innoculated with the virus and then spread it by becoming near other people in the city. The quoted sentence implies this is not how you think it was done. So, how was this done? How *can* this be done other than by the method I have outlined?

    The Internet is overflowing with “conspiracy theories,” 98% of which are rubbish. The notion that America agents spread Covid-19 by infecting some of our military athletes traveling to Wuhan and then hoping they would cough or sneeze an epidemic into existence seems as ridiculous as can be imagined.

    The story appears likely to be a “limited hang out” allowing the Chinese to blame the Americans for bringing the disease to Wuhan while avoiding the extremely dangerous accusation that it was a deliberate biowarfare attack rather than an accidental transmission of a disease already prevalent in America. Godfree Roberts has repeatedly promoted such nonsense on this website:

    https://www.unz.com/article/last-man-standing/?showcomments#comment-3788148

    Since the Chinese MSM and much of the alt-media promoted this ridiculous story, it got widespread circulation and among the 10,000 attending athletes some small number decided they’d gotten sick from Covid-19 at Wuhan, though there’s zero evidence of that. Similarly, thousands of Americans have convinced themselves they caught Covid-19 a year ago, again with zero evidence. After all, for younger people most Covid-19 cases are quite mild and indistinguishable from seasonal illnesses.

    I’m no expert in biowarfare, but I’d assume using an aerosol spray or wiping the virus on various surfaces are among the standard ways of releasing it in a secret attack.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  225. Ron Unz says:
    @Rocker

    The NYT recently published a piece called “Faces of Power” in which it asserts that 80% some 900 power holders in the US are “white.” Can you analyze the lists in this sprawling article to discern how many of these “whites” in different categories are Jewish?

    Unfortunately, the NYT article merely shows photos of the “Faces of Power,” without accompanying lists of the names. I suspect they avoided providing the name-lists in order to prevent exactly the sort of ethnic analysis you would find interesting. My guess would be that about 25-30% of the total are Jewish, rising to 80% in some of the particular categories.

  226. @Ron Unz

    You continue to grossly exaggerate the threat of COVID-19.
    Most estimates put the worldwide deaths caused by Spanish Flu at 20 to 30 million. To allow for world population growth ( 1920 2bn, 2020 7.8bn ) that equates to 78 to 117 million at 2020 figures.
    Hong Kong Flu 1968-69 killed up to 4 million people. To allow for population growth ( 1970 3.6bn ) that equates to 8.66 million at 2020 figures.
    By WHO figures, COVID-19 has killed 915 thousand people worldwide.

    Stop acting like an alarmist and get a grip on reality. COVID-19 is a minor health threat. It is not even in the same league as Hong Kong Flu, which occasioned no special measures at the time. If other countries had followed Sweden’s lead, herd immunity would have kicked in by now and infections would be falling rapidly.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8722051/How-comeback-kid-Sweden-got-laugh-coronavirus.html

    You’re a trained scientist: look at the facts.

  227. @Ron Unz

    People seem to have forgotten about the anthrax attacks after 9/11. They were blamed on Saddam and Iraq and used to justify our invasion of Iraq. The investigation revealed the anthrax came from our own stockpile, produced in our own labs. And the evidence for determining the person or people who released it were never found, but it was most likely someone within our own government who had access to the stuff.

    If it could happen then, it could have happened with the corona virus.

    • Agree: Tor597
  228. @Verymuchalive

    Well, I agree with much of what you say, but @Ron said this upstream:

    After all, for younger people most Covid-19 cases are quite mild and indistinguishable from seasonal illnesses.

    That is very true and seems to jibe very well with this graph the CDC provided a while back and then disappeared:

    So, I cannot understand which governments or government agencies he is accusing of being totally incompetent.

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
  229. @RadicalCenter

    Thanks for your thoughtful critique. I won’t disagree with you that the lockdown is a disastrous policy error that besides wreaking havoc on an already failing economy and increasing social unrest to previously unimaginable levels has also caused a large number of deaths from untreated medical conditions, opioid overdoses, suicides, and possibly other causes. But these account for at best a fraction of the excess deaths that appeared as the numbers of confirmed Covid-19 cases began rising.

    My main point in my original post is that anyone, like peterike, who dismisses the Covid-19/SARS-COV-2 pandemic as a “fat nothing burger” is either ignorant or delusional. The USA’s excess deaths in the first seventeen weeks of this year — and excess deaths have since risen significantly and are likely to do so for a while — confirm this even if we assign a quarter of them to other causes than Covid-19.

    I’m going to add a little screed that I’ve been sending out to friends lately in hopes that it might cause some rethinking of various issues related to the pandemic:

    A SARS-COV-2 infection is a necessary but not a sufficient condition for developing even a mild case of Covid-19, let alone a serious illness, or even something resembling a moderately bad case of the flu. It is becoming increasingly clear that a sizable majority of those infected with SARS-COV-2 never become sick. It’s also unclear whether any of these shed the virus enough that they can infect others with SARS-COV-2, let alone with doses large enough to cause a case of Covid-19 in the recipient, even if the recipient is highly susceptible to the Covid-19 disease.

    [MORE]

    Right now in Boston the daily news is full of stories about college and university administrators who are irate at student gatherings which lead to SARS-COV-2 infections. Literally thousands of students have tested positive for infection with SARS-COV-2. Yet I’ve not heard of one case of Covid-19 among these scofflaw students, let alone a death that can be related to a case of Covid-19. The MSM lackeys of the ruling class are desperate for such cases. That none have yet appeared suggests that none have occurred.

    Several months ago I did a back of the envelope calculation which I later revised, estimating the number of Covid-19 deaths in the USA which would be required to establish herd immunity against Covid-19, not infection with SARS-COV-2, which as I pointed out earlier is something very different. My revised estimate was that there would be somewhere between 300,000 and 1,000,000 Covid-19 deaths before the USA’s population established herd immunity. We are already very close to that number and hence herd immunity.

    Meanwhile people are sick of the endless lockdowns. The citizenry sense there is something terribly wrong with our ruling class’s current approaches to the epidemic. The economy is a shambles. Growing numbers are dying as a direct result of the lockdowns, mass quarantines, and other stupid and useless public health policies aimed at curtailing the effects of the pandemic. If one does a detailed analysis of Covid-19 deaths by time and location it is clear that these deaths have already peaked in some areas and are beginning to peak in others. The overall numbers obscure the fact that many areas have already achieved something close to herd immunity. And the paths these areas use to achieve this immunity and the Covid-19 death rates they experience along the way seem to have little if any relation to the policies chosen. Sweden has done quite well with minimal public health interventions. So have many states in the USA’s “flyover” country. On the other hand, Cuomo’s draconian measures created a public health catastrophe in New York. The country could have gotten where it is today with almost no public health interventions. They’ve caused more harm than good.

    The USA’s ruling class are generally pretty intelligent. Some have to be aware of the facts as I’ve laid them out. They know that continuing current policies will have no effect on the ultimate course of the current pandemic, whether measured by SARS-COV-2 infections, serious cases of Covid-19, or Covid-19 deaths. On the other hand, continuing these policies will ultimately make current economic and social instability much worse. These policies have to end or chaos will ensue.

    HERE’S MY PREDICTION: Sometime late this year or early next year our ruling class will declare victory over the SARS-COV-2/Covid-19 pandemic and announce the end of restrictive public health measures. They’ll need to window dress this, maybe with a fake vaccination program, maybe by cooking or reanalyzing data on infections and deaths. But this will be the ultimate game plan. This sounds cynical as all get out but it’s the only possible solution to the disaster the Globalist elites and the USA’s ruling classes have created for themselves and us. (Trump’s mistake is being premature. Herding sheep requires precise timing.)

    • Disagree: Akouo
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  230. Erebus says:
    @BobX

    … your theory?

    Actually, my “theory” would be very similar to Escobar’s, should I have ever bothered to type it out.

    I don’t think Strong’s “small group of powerful men” included Strong himself, much less any of the Greenpeace or Sierra members.

    Escobar does a remarkable job of pulling a lot of stuff together in a short article.
    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/from-9-11-to-the-great-reset/

    • Replies: @Akouo
  231. @Ron Unz

    The core of your argument makes sense, and I have nothing to counter-argue to it (though I am still, say, examining the evidence from all sides).

    The following sentence doesn’t make logical sense to me:

    After all, for younger people most Covid-19 cases are quite mild and indistinguishable from seasonal illnesses.

    As for the athletes, many of them complained about very harsh symptoms, very different from a mild flu. This might be nothing, but it might also be something. Anyway I have produced a separate comment dealing exclusively with this particular issue.

  232. woofdog says:

    What gives with the blame Trump for the national lockdown BS? I recall that Trump properly invoked federalism with regard to lockdowns and school closures (and re-openings). I also recall that in Jan he properly shut down human traffic from China and also supported HCQ as a prophylactic. He also viewed the WuFlu as a hoax in terms of governmental cowardly and over-reactionary response. For all of this he was criticized and he turned out (as usual) to be right. Tell me exactly how one man who has been correct from the beginning can be responsible for the COVID shit-show! Oh, and BTW, treating bad employment numbers as unrelated to the shutdown is definitely a head-in-the-sand approach.

  233. Ron Unz says:
    @Verymuchalive

    You continue to grossly exaggerate the threat of COVID-19…top acting like an alarmist and get a grip on reality. COVID-19 is a minor health threat…You’re a trained scientist: look at the facts.

    The two crucial facts about Covid-19 are (1) It is extremely contagious and (2) it is moderately dangerous, with estimated average fatality rates between 0.5% and 1.0%, but having an enormous age-skew, based upon all the evidence as summarized in a recent WSJ article:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-deadly-is-covid-19-researchers-are-getting-closer-to-an-answer-11595323801

    These approximate facts have been known from February, and nothing I’ve seen has changed my mind. Absent strong public health measures, we would expect it to kill something like 0.5% to 1.0% of a nation’s population, and whether or not that’s a large number is a matter of personal opinion.

    This is not a thread for debating the dangers of Covid-19, and comments that do so are likely to be trashed.

  234. Derer says:
    @JackOH

    Suspecting of a crime a habitual violent criminal vs a church going old lady, you pick old lady. Now yours “be referred for a psychiatric eval” perfectly fit in your case . Historically and internationally China is a pussycat in comparison to sinister DC (District of Corruption) players.

    It is hard to refute the USA high propensity to commit Covid19 pandemic. Even the nonchalant unpreparedness (target country is far away) is a reasonable give away, eventually badly backfired.

    Targeting Hiroshima civilians, U2 spying, Bay of Pigs, My Lai massacre, Allende democracy killings, Iran/Contra crime, NATO non-expansion lies, Serbia bombing, Iraq WMD and torture, Arming ISIS etc…are all international crimes committed in “defending” a morally bankrupt country. The Covid19 is an international crime and therefore who else if not the experienced militarist.

    • Replies: @JackOH
  235. Redman says:
    @Bill H

    It reminds me of what happened in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. The MSM immediately went mental about the supposed poor federal government response.

    Yet I was always at a loss as to what exactly they expected the feds to do. I knew some folks in Mississippi where Katrina hit worse than in NOLA, but the local and state authorities, along with the people, worked together to recover. In NOLA (which was dysfunctional and had a weak mayor) there was total chaos.

    There’s very little FEMA or other federal agencies can ever really “do” other than provide monetary relief. People complain that the US didn’t have as much “centralized coordination” in the effort to fight Covid. But the reality is that the virus was gonna virus. Nobody ever defines what centralized coordination would have accomplished. It’s quite lazy thinking really.

    • Replies: @Vidi
  236. @Peripatetic Commenter

    Thanks. ( and for reading this far down on a comment thread ! )
    As regards Governments, neither can I. Excessive, draconian, misconceived,yes. But lax and incompetent,no.

  237. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    I share with you your objections based on the expected exponential spread of the epidemic. However what if we are wrong about the assumption of exponential growth in its early stage of epidemic? Perhaps it is possible that in the initial stage the chains of infections have high probability of breaking, that at some points R0 becomes less than one until a ‘superspreader” emerges that infects several people and the epidemic branches out again but still many branches may die out. The epidemic is not one big tree growing from one root of the patient zero but many small shrubs that some of them are connected to each other with one root but many of them may die out.

    We have reports form several countries of identifying covid patients or covid dead or presence of virus before the epidemic officially began in these countries that suggests a cryptic spread of the virus.

    Here for example a paper from Brazil:

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.26.20140731v1.full.pdf
    SARS- CoV-2 in human sewage in Santa Catalina, Brazil , November 2019

    In conclusion we confirmed the presence of SARS-CoV-2 in Americas as early as 27th November, 60 day ahead of the reports of COVID-19 cases in the continent and more than 90 days in the case of Brazil.

    Here cryptic spread of virus in France as early as December 2019:

    After retesting samples, French hospital discovers COVID-19 case from December
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-france-idUSKBN22G20L

    “Of the 24, we had one who was positive for COVID-19 on Dec. 27,” he told the news channel on Sunday.

    Here statistical symptomatic based (not virus based) analysis from Los Angeles:

    Excess Patient Visits for Cough and Pulmonary Disease at a Large US Health System in the Months Prior to the COVID-19 Pandemic: Time-Series Analysis
    https://www.jmir.org/2020/9/e21562/

    ” A significantly higher number of patients with respiratory complaints and diseases starting in late December 2019 and continuing through February 2020 suggests community spread of SARS-CoV-2 prior to established clinical awareness and testing capabilities”

    The case of Los Angeles study is a good example where hospitals and doctors are not necessary aware in real time of the increase of cases that share some commonality and only a bird eye view of statistical analysis can connect it and raise a red flag that something unusual is happening. It is possible that this is how data for the DIA report were analyses similarly to what the Harvard team did several months later analyzing satellite pictures and checking kew word in social media communications.
    _______________

    The important point of your argument for your hypothesis is that DIA could not know before Chinese knew unless DIA had an insider knowledge. I question the two linked assumptions of your argument that (1) DIA could not know and that (2) Chinese did not know. If Chinese knew you argument fails. But even if they did not know just like the medical authorities in Los Angeles in December 2019 DIA could have found out using their vast resources to do the bird eye view analysis just like the Harvard team did on much smaller scale.

    BTW: I have read the Harvard’s team paper and IMO it is not that strong. The paper was strongly criticized by Chinese researchers based in China and Europe as well as by the Chinese media.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  238. @Ron Unz

    Hey, Ron.

    Could you provide an estimate as to the number of years of life lost by those who’ve died of Covid-19? How much longer would the average Covid victim have lived if he hadn’t contracted the virus?

    I’ve heard some people here claim that the average Covid patient is already terminally ill and only has a few months left to live. I’ve seen official studies that estimate 5-14 years of life lost for the average victim.

    Thanks.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  239. gavishti says:
    @Ron Unz

    “The author, Philippe Lemoine is a Cornell graduate student originally from France and his exhaustive 31,000 word opus might once have appeared as the cover-story of one of our leading national publications prior to their lapse into decadence. I have seen nothing else so comprehensive on that subject, and I would strongly recommend that the articles be read by everyone interested in this important topic.”

    And yet you are recommending us to read the 31,000 word opus by a relatively unknown author who is merely a graduate student. Why would that be appropriate ? Is it because the graduate student somewhat validates your opinions ?

    My point was that China had prior knowledge about the original virus which later mutated ( through unknown means) into SARS COV II. This was clearly stated by the articles mentioned in my previous comment, and also through later publications by leading Chinese virologists.

    Moreover, the Chinese labs and virologists are advanced enough to quickly detect any virus. In fact, the renowned scientist who was later arrested for sharing unauthorized information with the Chinese, Charles Lieber, Hyman Professor of Chemistry at Harvard University specialized in the quick detection of any virus. The following article published in The Harvard Gazette mentions the same –

    https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2004/10/sensor-detects-identifies-single-viruses/

    So the question remains, if the Chinese had prior knowledge about the virus as well as the ability to quickly detect any virus, why were they silent for such a long period of time ?

    • Replies: @Michael888
  240. Redman says:
    @Anon

    Yahoo News changed dramatically several years ago when it went all woke. It also started posting lots of stories about rappers, celebrity weddings and other crap nobody with a brain cares about.

    It actually used to be a decent source for important current events.

  241. Akouo says:
    @Erebus

    Try replacing the words covid or covid 19 with ‘flu’ and see how it reads. Kind of sounds like a silly paranoid reaction now huh? The facts, remember them? Show we simply had an annual flu season that peaked in May. If the numbers were a bit up it was only because last season was a bit down. Classic flu season is 20% infection and 0.1% deaths. Exactly what we have found with this flu you overhype.

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @Commentator Mike
  242. @Wade

    Well I don’t blame you for not taking more interest in what I have written that would make that comment clear.
    I was simply complimenting you on your coherent account of your version while noting that, like Ron’ s coherent account of his version, there was a lack of hard convlusive evidence to sew it up. I then moved on to invite your comment on my consideration of explanations for the eruption of what Ron’s version I think makes critical, namely the stories based on ABC radio and the Times of Israel that he insists prove guilty precognition.

  243. Corvinus says:
    @Ron Unz

    “But the ABC News story was *not* a scientific-sounding article…”

    Yes, I know. You missed the overall points. I hope it was not willful in intention. Now, you are citing ABC News, which has been deemed to be “Fake News” by some of the fine posters here, as well as authors who are part of your site. Moreover, the information it received was from government intelligence operations, which I have been led to believe, also by those some people, who are NOT to be trusted.

    Why should we believe what was stated by ABC News by way of a secret report by American intelligence? Is it not this report part of a wider “propaganda” campaign? Is not ABC “fake news”? Moreover, since when are we to assume that Israeli TV is remotely accurate in anything that they report?

    Please answer these pertinent questions.

    “filled with complex charts and graphs only intelligible to professional virologists”.

    To the contrary, there are people outside of the realm of science with the IQ and work ethic to navigate through that data.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  244. Corvinus says:
    @Ron Unz

    Again, Mr. Unz, why are you relying on our intelligence agencies who engage in “black propaganda efforts” as well as “Fake News” organizations like ABC News?

    “I think such extreme foreknowledge comes close to being smoking-gun evidence of culpability”.

    That would be one of several interpretations in looking at this “evidence”.

    “The US Intelligence sources obviously didn’t recognize the extremely significant logical implications of the secret report they were revealing”.

    So they offer up a report that they did not realize at the time could be a revelation, then once they understood the gravity of their error, they backtracked? You are going to have to do better than basically infer they (U.S. intelligence sources) are the Keystone Cops. It is possible, but how probable. Of course, if YOU have additional proof to support your claim of their alleged obliviousness, then by all means, show us.

    “Media stories are like any other type of evidence, and they should be carefully analyzed in a source-critical manner.”

    I concur.

    Except posters here, along with a number of the authors who are found on your blog, believe differently. Why is that? Furthermore, I thought ABC News is a purveyor of “Fake News”. Why are you relying on them? What say you regarding their (the posters and authors) objections?

    “Four independent Intelligence sources seems like pretty strong evidence and the Israeli confirmation nails it down.”

    Except I thought that American intelligence cannot be trusted. Why are you putting faith in them when posters here and the stable of writers you give a platform do not have any confidence? What say you regarding their objections?

  245. Ron Unz says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Could you provide an estimate as to the number of years of life lost by those who’ve died of Covid-19? How much longer would the average Covid victim have lived if he hadn’t contracted the virus?

    That’s a good question. I’ve sometimes wondered, but hadn’t seen any figures. The extreme age-sensitivity of the fatality-rates seem pretty solidly established, maybe averaging something like 0.1% up to age 45, something like 1% for 45-60, and getting into the 10% range for people in their 70s or older. Being overweight or having other health problems obviously makes things much worse.

    I’ve seen official studies that estimate 5-14 years of life lost for the average victim.

    Offhand, that range of estimates sounds pretty plausible to me.

  246. Ron Unz says:
    @Corvinus

    You missed the overall points. I hope it was not willful in intention. Now, you are citing ABC News, which has been deemed to be “Fake News” by some of the fine posters here, as well as authors who are part of your site.

    Well, I don’t particularly care what various people say on my website. I probably agree with them about some things and disagree with them about others. Overall, the MSM is pretty unreliable, but overall the alt-media is generally worse, and if you solipsistically dismiss both of them, then you’re left with no knowledge of reality at all. It’s important to take a source-critical approach, just like the fellow did on Quillette or I have done in my old Classical History articles:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/alexander-s-brothers/

    If four separate Intelligence sources told ABC News that the secret November DIA existed, and Israeli TV independently confirmed it, we should assume it’s true unless there’s strong evidence to the contrary.

    • Agree: Yevardian
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  247. @Ron Unz

    While I agree that covid-19 is probably the most contagious LETHAL virus in modern history, the lethality is only in the aged (and in those with extreme underlying health conditions). It is really annoying how much attention is paid to The Children, when the focus should be on the Aged: “This infection is 10,000 times deadlier for a 90-year-old than it is for a nine-year-old — even though we are far more likely to read about the deaths of young people than the elderly, simply because those deaths are surprising.”
    “For every 1,000 people infected with the coronavirus who are under the age of 50, almost none will die. For people in their fifties and early sixties, about five will die — more men than women. The risk then climbs steeply as the years accrue. For every 1,000 people in their mid-seventies or older who are infected, around 116 will die. These are the stark statistics obtained by some of the first detailed studies into the mortality risk for COVID-19.”– Smriti Malapatti, Nature 28 August, 2020
    There are some people (possibly 50% of the population in some countries according to modelers) who are not susceptible to Covid-19 infection (memory T cell immunity from common cold coronaviruses?), about 80% of those who are susceptible and infectious are asymptomatic or have common cold or mild flu symptoms, the others range from shortness of breath to severe respiratory distress to cytokine storm, deadly in those over 80 years old (median age of death, 80 years old, where about 15% of those infected die).
    In Europe 94% of deaths are in those over 60, in Australia 97%. The US seems to have more deaths in people 50 and older, but why so young relative to other countries?

  248. Ron Unz says:
    @utu

    Perhaps it is possible that in the initial stage the chains of infections have high probability of breaking, that at some points R0 becomes less than one until a ‘superspreader” emerges that infects several people and the epidemic branches out again but still many branches may die out. The epidemic is not one big tree growing from one root of the patient zero but many small shrubs that some of them are connected to each other with one root but many of them may die out.

    That’s been my strong impression all along, that the dispersion of the infection rate is extremely high. Thus, a large majority of the victims tend to infect zero or one others, but occasionally someone infects dozens, thereby producing the mean R0 of 2-3. Thus, if three or four people in a city are infected, there’s a pretty good possibility Covid-19 will quickly die out. But when the numbers are substantial, probabilities take over, and there’s an increasingly high likelihood that the disease will grow exponentially.

    But that’s why the DIA/Harvard claims make absolutely no sense. For satellite imagery to detect a large spike in hospital admissions, we’re talking about many, many thousands of cases, obviously a large enough number that there was a near-certainty of the disease going exponential absent strong health control measures. With 3-4 cases in a city it might easily die out, with 5,000 it most certainly would not.

    If the Harvard people didn’t address this very simple issue, they’re either remarkably dim or (more likely) producing “smoke” on behalf of American Intelligence, just as you had suggested.

  249. @gavishti

    I think Philippe Lemoine gives a nice timeline of what happened in Wuhan and China’s reaction. Nice summary of the key bureaucrats and their actions.
    Not impressed by his debunking of lab escape of the virus; SARS-COV2 arose somewhere, that would seem most likely to me (although we’ll probably never know).
    Bear in mind that Chinese New Year is basically the only major Holiday in China, with people moving all over their provinces and other countries, escaping the drudgery of Life for a few weeks. Little gets done at that time of year.

  250. @Curmudgeon

    It has nothing to do with Ron Unz. It has everything to do with bullshit narratives using words like “backed”, “linked to” and “ties to”, which mean nothing.
    When I go to the race track and place a bet, I “back” that horse, but I have dick all to do with whether it wins. My former accountant’s brother, whom I met a few times, became an ambassador. Am I “linked to” or “associated” with him? Does it mean I can influence government policy? Not even the CIA micromanages their “freedom fighters” the way Iran is alleged to direct groups they “back”. There are more than enough Syrians, Lebanese and Iraqis that would gladly do harm to US and Israeli personnel in their countries, given the opportunity.

    • Replies: @MLK
  251. vot tak says:

    Further evidence of Covid-19 existing in the usa prior to China.

    COVID-19 May Have Spread Silently in Los Angeles in December, Study Says

    https://sputniknews.com/society/202009111080434148-covid-19-may-have-spread-silently-in-los-angeles-in-december-study-says/

    [MORE]

    “Researchers at UCLA and their colleagues at the University of Washington noticed a surge in patients seeking treatment at UCLA medical facilities for coughs starting the week of December 22. The uptick continued through the end of February. Some of the patients were treated in outpatient centers, while others were admitted to hospitals operated by UCLA. The researchers published their findings this month in the Journal of Medical Internet Research.

    “The percentage of patients presenting with an EHR [electronic health record] reason for visit containing the word ‘cough’ to clinics exceeded the 95% prediction interval the week of December 22, 2019, and was consistently above the 95% prediction interval all 10 weeks through the end of February 2020,” the researchers reported.

    The researchers sifted through more than 9.5 million outpatient visits, almost 575,000 emergency room visits and around 250,000 hospital admissions over a period of more than five years to determine whether more patients complained of a cough than normal in the most recent winter, the Los Angeles Times reported.

    The researchers noted that there were 2,938 patients who went to clinics between December 1, 2019, and February 29, 2020, and complained of a cough, which is around 1,047 more cough patients than the average number seen during the equivalent three-month period in the previous five years. There were 739 more cough patients than the number seen in the winter of 2016 to 2017, which was previously the season that saw the most cough complaints since 2014.

    The medical records also revealed there were 1,138 patients treated for acute respiratory failure in UCLA hospitals and clinics in December, January and February, which is about 387 more patients than the average number hospitalized for that condition each winter during the previous five years.

    “A significantly higher number of patients with respiratory complaints and diseases starting in late December 2019 and continuing through February 2020 suggests community spread of SARS-CoV-2 prior to established clinical awareness and testing capabilities,” the researchers concluded in the report.”

  252. Erebus says:
    @Akouo

    Try replacing the words covid or covid 19 with ‘flu’ and see how it reads. 

    Huh?

    It seems your misunderstanding of my small post and the thrust of Escobar’s article is complete.

    Replacing “COVID” with whatever you like changes nothing. The governmental hype and the nature of the accompanying incompetent/ overblown response are the salient points here.

  253. JackOH says:
    @Derer

    Derer, my casual comment was intended to address the conceivability of a psychiatrically unbalanced individual working as a political appointee or career bureaucrat in the U. S. government. I think I was supporting Ron’s characterizations of some of our leadership elites. Fortunately for us all, if my own limited experience is any guide, the number of certifiably psycho individuals in responsible government positions is likely exceedingly small.

  254. Anon[114] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    You know that adage, if you don’t want to be lied to, don’t inquire anything.
    Now, with some people, you can break that rule and still not be lied to. However, there’s still a limit to what you can ask, if the question imperils beliefs they have enough of a need to hold, you can’t expect much of an answer anyway. So, yes, it’s absolutely possible the “other side” knew of the disease well before than is publicly said — actually it’s about sure.

    I agree on that LOL by the way.

    As for your “proves nothing” however, consider that the november USA/NATO report news has been censored, so, well, no guns in sight indeed, but we can’t really say no smoke either.

  255. Eataly says:

    The Unz 6 points seem reasonable.
    To getting more reasonable he should address the following points that put their weigh on the natural cause of the outbreak:

    1. experimental evidences date back to spring 2019 presence of the virus in discharges of Spain and other European countries

    2. there is a lot of scientific paper on the topic of covid outbreak in the last decade

    Regards

  256. Corvinus says:
    @Ron Unz

    “Overall, the MSM is pretty unreliable, but overall the alt-media is generally worse, and if you solipsistically dismiss both of them, then you’re left with no knowledge of reality at all.”

    Would not “pretty unreliable” equate to “Fake News”? What are your metrics for “pretty unreliable”?

    Furthermore, why in THIS specific case is ABC News and the intelligence community to be trusted, given how we are told time and time again by posters here and your stable of writers that the MSM perpetually lies and the intelligence community is deeply intertwined with the “Deep State”?

    Why should we believe YOU that in this particular circumstance the MSM/intelligence community *is* reliable? Could it not also be part of their effort to spread “propaganda”?

    Are you not “picking and choosing” which stories to believe and which stories to dismiss based on your own biases?

    You are only providing a partial response. I understand why, you have an investment to protect. Perhaps you will be more willing to offer transparency by answering these questions more in-depth.

    “It’s important to take a source-critical approach”.

    Again, I concur. But, truth be told, you do enable your posters and authors to perpetuate the Fake News mantra.

    Take, for example, if one of your posters makes the claim that “The Global Lockdown is a massive worldwide reset mechanism, deliberately engineered, designed to knock over the chessboard and scatter the pieces, forcing the players to either start over or to create new, invented positions on the board”.

    Would you agree or disagree that this statement personifies the descent into modern anti-intellectualism? This insistence that a Globalist cabal will destroy the white race once and for all is predicated on the notion that the Deep State is pulling the strings through a series of coordinated false flags, with high IQ whites being duped along the way by a complicit media. Proof? Not required. But anyone who dares to question this general Alt-Right, Q-driven narrative, and (whallah)…one is deemed a purveyor of Fake News. Hey, no need to critically think when under the impression that ANY and ALL news from the MSM is doctored, altered, or outright lies.

    What say YOU?

    “If four separate Intelligence sources told ABC News that the secret November DIA existed, and Israeli TV independently confirmed it, we should assume it’s true unless there’s strong evidence to the contrary.”

    So we are to also trust Jews, too? That is asking WAY too much. Again, I thought that the “tribe” is a treacherous lot. Why are we to assume that in this case their media is spot on with their confirmation? Why should we believe YOU?

    Furthermore, we should assume the ABC News report MAY BE TRUE, unless there is additional corroboration that enables one to say unequivocally it is true.

    • Replies: @Vidi
  257. Corvinus says:
    @Ron Unz

    “Well, anything is possible, but absolutely all evidence indicates otherwise.”

    It is more accurate to say “It is contention that the available evidence indicates otherwise”.

  258. Corvinus says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    “HERE’S MY PREDICTION: Sometime late this year or early next year our ruling class will declare victory over the SARS-COV-2/Covid-19 pandemic and announce the end of restrictive public health measures. They’ll need to window dress this, maybe with a fake vaccination program, maybe by cooking or reanalyzing data on infections and deaths. But this will be the ultimate game plan. This sounds cynical as all get out but it’s the only possible solution to the disaster the Globalist elites and the USA’s ruling classes have created for themselves and us. (Trump’s mistake is being premature. Herding sheep requires precise timing.)”

    I will bet you a virtual sawbuck that your prediction is wrong. I will even give you until May 2021. Of course, it is contingent upon you providing specific documentary evidence that the “ruling class”, however you define it, had met, planned, and executed this course of action. In other words, you will have to be specific on how they came up with this “ultimate game plan”.

    Deal?

    As an aside, what makes YOU not one of those sheep?

    “Sweden has done quite well with minimal public health interventions”

    Sweden is not the United States.

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/2251615-is-swedens-coronavirus-strategy-a-cautionary-tale-or-a-success-story —> Sweden was one of the few European countries not to impose a compulsory lockdown. Its unusual strategy for tackling the coronavirus outbreak has been both hailed as a success and condemned as a failure. So which is it? Those who regard the strategy as a success claim it reduced the economic impact, but it isn’t clear that it did. What is clear is that so far Sweden has had a more protracted outbreak with far more deaths per capita than its neighbours…So there was a substantial voluntary lockdown in Sweden – yet it wasn’t nearly as effective in reducing the spread of the coronavirus as the compulsory lockdowns in neighbouring Denmark and Norway. Cases and deaths rose faster in Sweden and have been slower to decline.

    “My revised estimate was that there would be somewhere between 300,000 and 1,000,000 Covid-19 deaths before the USA’s population established herd immunity. We are already very close to that number and hence herd immunity.”

    I imagine that you have a background in statistics and in the health field to make these estimations, right? Just curious as to what are your credentials…

    So, why do you not take your work and provide it to the experts whom you disagree with? Would it not be a public service on your part to show the error of their ways by (checks notes) giving them your back of the envelope calculation which you later revised?

    • Replies: @freedom-cat
  259. @Ron Unz

    Ron writes:

    The two crucial facts about Covid-19 are (1) It is extremely contagious and (2) it is moderately dangerous, with estimated average fatality rates between 0.5% and 1.0%, but having an enormous age-skew, based upon all the evidence as summarized in a recent WSJ article:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-deadly-is-covid-19-researchers-are-getting-closer-to-an-answer-11595323801

    That WSJ article (available here for those who don’t want to put dollars in the pockets of the #LyingMSM: https://archive.is/Wj2SY) says:

    More than 14.7 million people have been infected with SARS-CoV-2 across the globe, and over 609,000 people have died, with nearly a quarter of the fatalities in the U.S., according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. That means that among confirmed global cases, roughly 4.2% of those people died.

    Now, if it is as contagious as Ron suggests I suspect the number they quote who have been infected is an order or magnitude or more too low.

    In addition, I note that they use results from Ferguson who has a history of getting it wrong every single time. Falsus in uno, falsus on omnibus.

  260. Anon[451] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron, you might be surprised at how slowly bad news is communicated within a Chinese bureaucratic structure that does not know how to convey bad news up a power hierarchy. Even today, China hires Western pilots to train timid co-pilots on how to communicate to their first in command pilot when they detect a problem that might take down the entire aircraft. As well, Taiwanese doctors working in mainland China are said to have communicated about the disease outbreak with their colleagues in Taiwan. This may have been one source of information for the DIA report.

    • Replies: @utu
  261. @MLK

    My reply at 253 was meant for you.

  262. gay troll says:
    @Ron Unz

    Still off the ball, Ron. The virus leaked from Fort Detrick and therefore originated in the USA. The CDC attempted to cover it up using a variety of means including the EVALI epidemic. At some point they realized it couldn’t be covered up, and moved to plan B: blame China. The original virus from Fort Detrick had been circulating since spring 2019, genetically diversifying. I assume TPTB isolated the most infectious strain to release in Wuhan, to create the appearance that it from there overran the world.

    Only this theory explains the bizarre, bipartisan nonchalance at the approach of the virus. Neither the Trump administration nor its putative enemy the mainstream media did ANYTHING to warn or prepare Americans for COVID until March. They studiously ignored the virus until rapidly escalating the narrative, imposing stay at home orders and closing non essential business. If it was incompetence that caused the USA to have the worst COVID situation on Earth, then the media and public health institutions bear just as much blame as Trump. But it wasn’t incompetence. The USA has the worst outbreak of COVID for the simple reason that it is the epicenter of the disease. This is the fact that both the government and its puppet MSM are concealing. Worse, COVID is being used as window dressing for the dismantling of the American economy.

    If I am wrong, then let the CDC declassify the identity of the infectious agent or toxin that breached containment at Fort Detrick last year. Let them provide any evidence that EVALI was caused by vaporizers. Let them explain why they only let a handful of Americans get tested for COVID in March.

    • Agree: Robert White
    • Thanks: Polemos
    • Replies: @Polemos
  263. Z says:

    Not a single mention of China restricting internal travel from Wuhan while allowing international travel. Dishonest. Sad to see Ron join the Orange Man Bad crowd.

  264. @Akouo

    Or how about Covid replacing flu and cold in the future? The medical field has this habit of changing terminology. Remember there was once the illness of “consumption” yet it’s been a long time since anyone heard of it. You’d have thought it had been eradicated and disappeared, but it was just rebranded as TB. With the change of the name also came various treatments and measures which decreased its incidence and deadliness. So maybe the same will happen with the flu and cold and we’ll just be left with the catch-all phrase Covid. There have been many other name changes of illnesses in the past so why stop now? Covid kind of sounds more scientific and professional than just the common “cold” or even “influenza”.

  265. utu says:
    @Anon

    “As well, Taiwanese doctors working in mainland China are said to have communicated about the disease outbreak with their colleagues in Taiwan. This may have been one source of information for the DIA report.” – That’s my belief that Taiwan is the country with the best intelligence about China. 400,000 Taiwanese work in China. Can’t find numbers about doctors and nurses but these articles suggest that the number must substantial.

    https://english.cw.com.tw/article/article.action?id=1921. (2018)
    Given that China’s medical profession has been open to Taiwanese physicians for many years, are these additional “economic benefits” likely to make medical personnel leave Taiwan in droves?

    Chinese hospitals offer millions to poach doctors from Taiwan (2014)
    http://www.chinesemedicalnews.com/2014/03/chinese-hospitals-offer-millions-to.html

    “A spokesman for the health ministry acknowledged that 90% of doctors in Taiwan earned their main income from the national insurance scheme and it would be impossible for the health ministry to match the huge pay offers made by Chinese hospitals to Taiwanese medical professionals.”

    Where Have All the Doctors Gone? (2013)
    https://english.cw.com.tw/article/article.action?id=513

    “I really feel sorry for Taiwanese patients, because they don’t know their doctors have already run away to China,” the Taipei-based physician says, both surprised and a little distressed.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  266. vot tak says:

    Defying the Pandemic, China Sets New Record in Foreign Investment in 2020

    https://sputniknews.com/business/202009121080440669-defying-the-pandemic-china-sets-new-record-in-foreign-investment-in-2020/

    “China’s economy enjoyed an 18.7% increase in the volume of foreign direct investment in August alone, up to 84.1 billion yuan ($12.3 billion), China’s Commerce Ministry has revealed. Investors have been pouring their money into the Asian country for five months in a row, as most of the world remains engulfed in the coronavirus pandemic.

    The Commerce Ministry indicated that despite the dire state that countries’ economies wound up in this year, the level of foreign direct investment (FDI) in China has exceeded that of 2019, jumping 2.6% to 619.78 billion yuan ($90.69 billion) between January and August.

    Investments in the high-tech service sector showed the greatest growth at 28.2% in the first eight months of 2020, while the service industry came in second with a 12.1% spike compared to the previous year. Seeing the growth in these sectors, Beijing has already announced the implementation of mechanisms that will boost investors’ interest in China in general by easing cross-border financial flows, as well as by partially deregulating foreign investment in the country’s telecommunications sector.

    The news of the booming foreign direct investment in China comes as the country’s recently-held International Fair for Investment & Trade and the Belt and Road Investment Congress boasted a whopping 800 billion yuan (around $117 billion) worth of agreements struck between Chinese and foreign companies. Beijing has been broadening its economic ties with the rest of the world, namely receiving 73.6% more in investment from the Netherlands and 17.2% more from the UK, amid an ongoing confrontation with the US.”

    You know, this is really unfair of those Chinese. They are not cooperating at all. Covid-19 was introduced to China by the israeloamericans specifically to damage China’s economy and render it uncompetitive with that of the zpc/nwo empire. Those Chinese are inscrutable.

    • LOL: Biff
  267. @S

    Unlike some others – I don’t downplay the danger of Covid-19… But to put in in perspective – it is “light” compared to the 1918 flu pandemic. The globe had much less people than it does today and people were much less mobile. But that pandemic KILLED 50 million people. This hasn’t even infected that many people yet. Now it is true that without modern treatment methods it would have killed many more – but certainly not tens of millions.

    • Replies: @utu
  268. Polemos says:
    @Robert White

    [Too much off-topic “remote viewing” nonsense.]

    But . . .

    Well, I don’t particularly care what various people say on my website. I probably agree with them about some things and disagree with them about others.

    Yet . . .

    Godfree Roberts has repeatedly promoted such nonsense on this website:

    https://www.unz.com/article/last-man-standing/?showcomments#comment-3788148

    Not only repeatedly promoted nonsense, but we even get a link to subject ourselves to more!

    😏

    • Troll: vot tak
    • Replies: @Robert White
    , @Corvinus
  269. MLK says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Uh huh. You believe every fairie story Scooby Doo (Ron Unz) comes up with but become a “There’s no evidence” skeptic for what’s as obvious as the nose on your face.

    Answer me this, smart guy, if Soleimani was just an innocent in Iraq riding in a car in the middle of the night with the militia leader organizing the ongoing assault on the US Embassy then why has everyone, including the Iranian regime, dropped the whole thing faster than the search for Nicole’s real killer after OJ’s acquittal?

  270. @utu

    “Taiwanese intellingence”??? Nonsense. Fact is Taiwan officials are considered “Chinese” by Beijing. Health officials from Taiwan were allowed into Wuhan before the WHO. The only western media who reported that was Bloomberg (though the purpose was to boost Taiwan – they probably didn’t realize what they were saying. The DPP propaganda department gets a lot of help from the CIA.

  271. utu says:
    @showmethereal

    “Unlike some others – I don’t downplay the danger of Covid-19” – I am with you. From the very beginning I was irritated by the ‘deniers’ and ‘downplayers’. I am disappointed by the MSM treatment that does not give sufficient support to people like myself to fend off various crazy theories which btw many come from German sources with quite a few doctors and professors.

    For example I would need some help in explaining a big change in mortality in the so-called 2nd wave comparing to the 1st wave. If we agree that IRF estimate at 0.5-1.0% is consistent with the 1st wave data it certainly is no longer consistent with the 2nd wave data. The inconsistency is the most striking when you look at data from Spain: http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/. The IRF or CRF in the 2nd wave must be at least an order of magnitude lower than it the 1st wave. I would like to have it addressed by MSM instead of relying on some dubious German ‘Dreimal 100 Professoren’.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @canspeccy
  272. Polemos says:
    @gay troll

    Only this theory explains the bizarre, bipartisan nonchalance at the approach of the virus. Neither the Trump administration nor its putative enemy the mainstream media did ANYTHING to warn or prepare Americans for COVID until March. They studiously ignored the virus until rapidly escalating the narrative, imposing stay at home orders and closing non essential business.

    There is no effort whatsoever to tell people that increasing their vitamin D or sun intake, making time to meditate and pray for the welfare of others, and actively moving around under their own power will make them more resistant and healthier overall; three very simple things that could drastically alter an entire part of the world towards much improved life. Not even a campaign to motivate people to exercise and actually use the “lockdown” period to detoxify themselves of all their addictions, physical or emotional or spiritual. Addiction, especially the virtual and programmable kinds, were emphasized instead, forcing more people to use the virtual rather than the social to find themselves amused. Suddenly everyone must comply with using machines to find and grow friendships. The only approved form of social amusement is the protest and the violence of the riot. All other society must occur over “distance.”

    But you say only your theory could explain the bizarre behavior. What if it wasn’t a Detrick leak as reported? What if the pandemic-hiding-leak is itself a screen. As others suggest: third parties can frame the US just as easily. Inside jobs have happened, may we never forget 🛬, amen. Higher forces and powers move across the planet and its worlds and bands. That is, the leak was itself already a release by someone none of us have mentioned or haven’t seen them in that way. So, there are other theories, right?

  273. @dearieme

    Fleas and mosquitos have spread diseases that have killed billions of people throughout human history… That’s the thing with “practicing” medicine as well as science. You have to actually observe things before just making up something to say.

  274. @utu

    Compare Taiwan to neighboring Fujian Province on mainland China…. The numbers are very similar. only in Wuhan/Hubei are the numbers higher than Taiwan per capita than any mainland province. you make yourself look silly with the political nonsense. And Taiwan only got the jump because they were INVITED to Wuhan as an act of solidarity. Silly politics

  275. Ron Unz says:
    @utu

    “As well, Taiwanese doctors working in mainland China are said to have communicated about the disease outbreak with their colleagues in Taiwan. This may have been one source of information for the DIA report.” – That’s my belief that Taiwan is the country with the best intelligence about China. 400,000 Taiwanese work in China. Can’t find numbers about doctors and nurses but these articles suggest that the number must substantial.

    But is there any evidence whatsoever that the Taiwanese government was aware of the Wuhan outbreak back in November? Surely they would have taken health precautions, given the huge flow of travelers between the two countries. If not, then I very much doubt that Taiwanese were the source of the secret DIA report.

    Anyway, the secret DIA report claimed the Wuhan outbreak was discovered through satellite and electronic intelligence, and never mentioned Taiwanese sources, so we would need to acknowledge that it was at least partly false. Obviously, candidly citing Taiwanese as the main intelligence source would be unlikely in any sort of public document, but hardly unreasonable in a secret intelligence report.

    • Replies: @utu
  276. Ron Unz says:
    @utu

    For example I would need some help in explaining a big change in mortality in the so-called 2nd wave comparing to the 1st wave. If we agree that IRF estimate at 0.5-1.0% is consistent with the 1st wave data it certainly is no longer consistent with the 2nd wave data.

    That’s not entirely clear to me. A crucial aspect of Covid-19 is the extreme age-skew in the fatality rates, with victims in their 70s having something like 100x the death rate of victims in their 30s. It seems not at all impossible that the age-skew of the infected in the second wave is considerably different than that in the first, and might account for the very large differences in average fatality rates.

    It would be very nice if health authorities produced a recent age-distribution fatality curve and checked whether it was substantially different from the ones that were estimated several months ago.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @artichoke
  277. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    I would need some help in explaining a big change in mortality in the so-called 2nd wave comparing to the 1st wave. If we agree that IRF estimate at 0.5-1.0% is consistent with the 1st wave data it certainly is no longer consistent with the 2nd wave data. The inconsistency is the most striking when you look at data from Spain: http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/. The IRF (IFR?) or CRF (CFR?) in the 2nd wave must be at least an order of magnitude lower than it the 1st wave.

    LOL. Neither you nor anyone else has definite knowledge of the early stage infection fatality rate (IFR) because there is no reliable information on the early stage infection rate.

    At present, that can only be assessed on the basis of serological tests for Covid antibodies, but it is known that Covid antibodies dissipate rapidly. Such testing will, therefore, underestimate the infection rate, the error increasing with the time between infection and testing. Hence one should expect a decline in estimated IFR between early and late in the epidemic due not to a real difference in IFR but to an estimation error.

    • Replies: @utu
  278. @Polemos

    I don’t know this Godfree Roberts. Not related to him either.

    Mr. Unz was the one that referred to my comments as nonsense not moi.

    RW

    • Replies: @Polemos
  279. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    “It seems not at all impossible that the age-skew of the infected in the second wave is considerably different”. – That’s one possibility but I do not think it could explain the striking discrepancy we see in Spain. Would they be able to keep all 60 years old and older protected from infection in the second wave that is as large as the first? What if the treatment during the first wave was wrong? They depended on early use of respirators (that had over 80% fatal outcomes) and then there was the advisory against the usage of anti-inflammatory drugs. Since then they found that the steroid (an anti-inflamatory) dexamethasone was very effective:

    Coronavirus breakthrough: dexamethasone is first drug shown to save lives (June 2020)
    In a large trial, a cheap and widely available steroid cut deaths by one-third among patients critically ill with COVID-19.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01824-5

    They also seem to learned about more effective usage of ventilators:

    More covid-19 patients are surviving ventilators in the ICU (July 2020)
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/more-covid-19-patients-are-surviving-ventilators-in-the-icu/2020/07/03/2e3c3534-bbca-11ea-8cf5-9c1b8d7f84c6_story.html

    In a May 26 study in the journal Critical Care Medicine, Martin and a group of colleagues found that 35.7 percent of covid-19 patients who required ventilators died — a significant percentage but much lower than early reports that put the figure in the upper 80 percent range.

    So clearly IFR must be lower by aprox. factor of 3/2 due to dexamethasone and by factor of 80/35 because of better ventilator therapy now than during the first wave. But is it possible that it can be cumulatively 10 times lower due to all new better treatments as Spain data would suggest? I would like it to be true. But then I would have to accept that IFR under new better treatment regimen is 0.05-0.1% which would put me in the camp of quasi-deniers and minimizers. Would medical community admit to being wrong and causing thousands of deaths by following wrong treatment guidelines?

    Anyway, the IFR issue should be revisited. The age dependent IFR values derived in the excellent paper by Berkeley physicists using Diamond Princess IFR for one age group and the age dependent excess mortality in Italy may no longer be applicable in the 2nd stage.

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.15.20067074v2.full.pdf

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @gavishti
  280. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    LOL. Neither you nor anyone else has definite knowledge of the early stage infection fatality rate (IFR) because there is no reliable information on the early stage infection rate.

    Don’t judge others by your own limitations. I have read this paper

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.15.20067074v2.full.pdf

    very carefully and it is sound. On May 21 I wrote this comment:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/corona-ifr-1-percent/#comment-3909100
    I liked very much the paper by the Berkeley physicists: Modi, Chirag, Vanessa Boehm, Simone Ferraro, George Stein, and Uros Seljak. Epidemiologists and all kinds of statisticians could learn from them how to write transparently. One of the reason there are so many papers written poorly is that the authors often have to obfuscate as they do not really understand what they are doing. People can be taught how to use statistical software packages like SAS, SPSS, R w/o really understanding the underlying mathematical routines.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  281. artichoke says:

    So if the incumbent’s poll numbers look bleak as Election Day nears, a political October Surprise of major sabre-rattling and brinksmanship seems quite possible, and a sudden misstep might then put us at war in the South China Sea.

    More likely, if the China-backed challenger’s numbers look bleak as Election Day nears, we’ll see China up the aggression internationally (and thru their puppets here) being willing to go for broke. They need Biden to win.

  282. artichoke says:
    @Ron Unz

    If we backed out the intentional nursing home deaths in NYC, NJ, PA, etc. how does the age skew look? I was hearing a month or so ago that in a 2nd wave, the young were at risk as much as the old, although both at low rates.

  283. artichoke says:
    @Ron Unz

    Scientist (engineer actually) here. I never believed the WMD baloney, it didn’t smell right. There were some in Congress who smelled the same rat; it wasn’t hard to figure out if you wanted to. Mostly they didn’t want to.

    I do believe Covid was made in a lab, the lab could be in Trump tower or Epstein island or wherever Barack and/or Michael are hanging out these days, I don’t know where the lab is, but it’s from a lab. It didn’t come from bat soup. I didn’t even need the Nobel winner from France to say the same thing; it’s common sense.

  284. Ron Unz says:
    @utu

    So clearly IFR must be lower by aprox. factor of 3/2 due to dexamethasone and by factor of 80/35 because of better ventilator therapy now than during the first wave. But is it possible that it can be cumulatively 10 times lower due to all new better treatments as Spain data would suggest?

    That’s my point. Even if improvements in treatment had lowered the fatality rate by a factor of 3, we’re still quite bit from the observed factor of 10. But since the age-dispersion of fatality rates can be 100x or even 1000x, a relatively small change in the age-skew of infection rates could easily account for a factor of 10x in average fatality-rates. For example, if the fearful old people and their immediate relatives have mostly become very careful, maybe their infections rates declined by 30%, while 20-somethings rose by 300%, that could reduce the IFR by a huge amount, maybe even a factor of 10. It’s easy to imagine such hypotheticals.

    One would think the medical authorities would have produced a recent age-fatality curve, so we could see if it’s changed much since April.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Tor597
    , @CanSpeccy
  285. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    “One would think the medical authorities would have produced a recent age-fatality curve, so we could see if it’s changed much since April.” – Agree. They have data on the age demographics of the infected.

  286. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    Utu reads a paper and declares it sound so anyone who disagrees is to be soundly insulted.

    LOL

    And note that this wonderful paper estimates IFR in the only way possible:

    To estimate the IFR from the PFR, we need the infection ratio (IR) of the population. Here we have used the Test Positivity Rate (TPR), the fraction of positive to total tests, as the fraction of infected population. Due to the criterion of primarily testing people with symptoms, this should be an upper bound on the IR during the first few weeks of infection, hence making this IFR a lower bound…

    So as I said, IFRs are no more reliable than the test of “Test Positivity” which we know to be not very reliable, a fact the authors of this wonderful Utu-approved paper themselves admit.

    • Replies: @utu
  287. Tor597 says:
    @Ron Unz

    I was going to mention this.

    It is much easier for older people who have money or are retired to turtle up and not leave the house. They have the resources to use something like Instacart to do their shopping for them since they know they are higher risk.

    Younger people can’t afford to turtle up or they don’t care to because they are young and careless and know their risk is less.

    So the IFR has changed significantly because of this in addition to the better utilization of pharmaceuticals, plus less hospital crowding, plus better awareness of patients to report to the hospital sooner.

    I also wonder if the increased use of masks means that people are exposed to a lesser viral load than before which improves survivability.

  288. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    To estimate the IFR from the PFR, we need the infection ratio (IR) of the population. Here we have used the Test Positivity Rate (TPR), the fraction of positive to total tests, as the fraction of infected population. Due to the criterion of primarily testing people with symptoms, this should be an upper bound on the IR during the first few weeks of infection, hence making this IFR a lower bound

    Those are important points. But the fact remains that IFRs are still dependent on serological antibody tests, which have not thus far proved particularly reliable. Remember John Ioannides embarrassing association with a Covid survey in Santa Clara county based on serological tests, the results of which were initially published without taking account of the test’s false positive rate, which when properly accounted for, gave rise to a 95% confidence interval including zero. They subsequently fixed things up to prove, so it is said, that, as I have suggested, the Covid infection rate is much higher than generally supposed.

  289. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    But is there any evidence whatsoever that the Taiwanese government was aware of the Wuhan outbreak back in November? – Not to my knowledge. But Taiwan began to monitor temperature of arrivals from Wuhan on December 31, 2019 and on the same day they sent an email to WHO alerting of the epidemic in Wuhan (details and links are in my previous comments).

    Virus Outbreak: NSB outlines Wuhan intelligence (May 2020)
    https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2020/05/01/2003735604

    [National Security Bureau (NSB) Director-General Chiu Kuo-cheng] was asked about the bureau’s intelligence regarding the source of COVID-19 and whether it originated in China or the US, as has been suggested by some Chinese officials.

    “All of the initial information pointed to the virus coming out of the Huanan Seafood Market [in Wuhan], there is no doubt about it,” Chiu said.

    “China has two such P4 research laboratories, one in Wuhan and another in Harbin,” Chiu said. “However, we are not yet certain whether China was conducting virus research and experiments at other laboratories in secret locations.”

    “Chiu said that the bureau does not have a unit focused on gathering intelligence on biological warfare activity, promising to set one up and recruit talent to coordinate work gathering intelligence on the subject.”

    One may wonder whether the Q&A conference of General Chiu with Taiwan’s parliament deputies had anything to do with the DIA leak by ABC in April and/or with

    In Rare Move, U.S. Intelligence Agencies Confirm Investigating if Coronavirus Emerged From Lab Accident (April 30)
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-intelligence-agencies-say-coronavirus-originated-in-china-wasnt-man-madeor-genetically-modified-11588260228

    or this

    Intelligence agencies probe ‘hazardous event’ at Wuhan lab (May 18)
    https://asiatimes.com/2020/05/intelligence-agencies-probe-hazardous-event-at-wuhan-lab/

  290. JackOH says:

    Does anyone have enough of an “in” with his Representative or Senator to present the Lemoine/Unz thinking on Covid-19?

  291. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    What was clever in the method by the Berkeley team is that they used IFR from Diamond Princess passengers and crew, the most thoroughly tested population anywhere. PT-PCR tests and serology for antibodies tests were applied on three occasions: 4, 8, and 12 days after entering the quarantine. So this IFR is as good as you can get.

    The Berkeley team did not use test based or prevalence of symptoms data to estimate the denominator for the three Italian regions. They did not need to. From Diamond Princess’s IFR for a given age bracket and the number of deaths for the same age bracket in three regions in Italy they got the denominator from which they could calculate infection rate using the demographic data in the three regions of Italy. They numerator they got form the excess deaths by subtracting form the counterfactual baseline that they cleverly estimated. And then using the excess deaths they could calculate IFR in Italy for other age brackets.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  292. lavoisier says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    The two crucial facts about Covid-19 are (1) It is extremely contagious and (2) it is moderately dangerous,

    You have raised incredibly important questions about the provenance of this virus based on a peculiar series of events with the United States seemingly in the know before anyone else.

    But my suspicion that this virus may have been bio-engineered was heightened by the stringent measures taken by the United States and other nations to control its spread at a very early date. This to me suggested an “insider” knowledge of the potential danger this virus posed. Furthermore, the censorship of ideas or arguments for the bio-engineering of the virus was troubling, with the authorities once again reading from the same script.

    There were a series of articles published in science journals, including Nature, warning of the dangers of weaponizing viruses such as corona viruses several years before the outbreak.

    A lot of questions remain regarding the origins of this virus and whether or not it was bio-engineered.

  293. The tone of this article isn’t warranted by the underlying facts. Each party externalizes its failures onto a foreign actor (China or Russia), but only one has brought us to the brink of war with its negligent externalizing, and that’s the Biden-Clinton faction.

    Trump’s presidency has been extraordinary for not embroiling us in a regime change conflict.

    • Replies: @vot tak
  294. @SunBakedSuburb

    If the Coronachanfrankenvirus was whipped up in a lab and released in Wuhan as you and Ron claim, it was a complete and total bust! It’s lethality is negligible at best!
    Of course the virus has not even been proven to exist. Mr Unz is the conspiracy theorists conspiracy theorist. The key word being “theorist!”

  295. Corvinus says:
    @Polemos

    That’s what Mr. Sailer also does as well. It’s as if linking to their own stories ought to be considered “additional verified sources”.

  296. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    So this IFR is as good as you can get.

    As good as you can get is not necessarily correct.

    Why do you think, Utu the Unlimited, Knower of All Things, that the British Government is contemplating an expenditure of one hundred billion pounds to upgrade national testing capability? One reason, perhaps is that testing “as good as you can get” is not reliable. That certainly proved to be the reason for the humiliating withdrawal of a paper by John Ioannides, author of the most downloaded paper in the Public Library of Science, a paper entitled Why Most Published Research Findings Are False. The authors overestimated the reliability of the test and came up with a meaningless result.

    Incidentally, since you are so sure of yourself, why do you constantly muddle the abbreviation of terms CRF, presumably referring to Case Fatality Rate (CFR), PT-PCR, presumably referring to reverse transcription, polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR).

  297. Polemos says:
    @Robert White

    Sometimes one man’s nonsense is the same man’s nonsense, so I know who moderated your comment and in whose Company we keep. Trust is what we intend to share. Trust is what we endeavor to give.

    Whatever you did say, I appreciate your time spent in giving it, as I read every comment when I can, and when I can’t, I await that time when we all read one another’s messages together. Or, the closest thing to that, as among friends.

    • Agree: Robert White
  298. gavishti says:
    @utu

    Welcome to The camp Sir, the ‘Rona is a brouhaha. The global reaction to it have been a series of errors, intentionally or otherwise.

    I would recommend homeopathic remedies as quick as you could take them. Both as prophylactic, as well as for, the subsequent treatment of any infected patient. The homeopathic medicine’s used for this epidemic are well known, and if you so wish, I could share their names with you.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @dfordoom
  299. utu says:
    @gavishti

    Sorry, but I have no patience with homeopathic nonsense.

    • Replies: @gavishti
  300. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    This guy has an explanation for the Covid Conundrum, i.e., rising Covid positive test numbers, declining Covid mortality.

    The key factors? Accelerated testing as the number of healthy persons with the virus (either immune to it or recovered from it) increases — all positive test results being interpreted as new infections, while mortality declines following the normal seasonal pattern for Corona virus infections in the Northern hemisphere.

    The seasonal pattern is well established but unexplained, although it likely reflects, in part, seasonal variation in Vitamin D status due to seasonal differences in sun exposure, but other factors too.

    In other words, the disparity between infections as inferred from positive RT-PCR test numbers and deaths is due to the mistaken assumption that a positive-PCR test is indicative of a new infection, whereas, during the course of the epidemic, the number of positive-RT PCR test results will be due increasingly to the persistence of the virus, or fragments thereof, in those recovered from infection or who are asymptomatic carriers.

    • Replies: @anon
  301. @gavishti

    Have you seen the Bret Weinstein-Yuri Deigin youtubes?

    e. g.

  302. anon[327] • Disclaimer says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Really don’t understand any of it.
    And, don’t care what these mouthers say.

    Like more people testing positive for air.

    • Replies: @canspeccy
  303. dfordoom says: • Website

    So if the incumbent’s poll numbers look bleak as Election Day nears, a political October Surprise of major sabre-rattling and brinksmanship seems quite possible, and a sudden misstep might then put us at war in the South China Sea.

    That does unfortunately seem quite possible.

  304. dfordoom says: • Website
    @gavishti

    I would recommend homeopathic remedies as quick as you could take them. Both as prophylactic, as well as for, the subsequent treatment of any infected patient. The homeopathic medicine’s used for this epidemic are well known, and if you so wish, I could share their names with you.

    Or if you want to save money you could just drink a glass of tap water and pretend it’s a homeopathic medicine. It will have exactly the same effect.

    • LOL: Iris
  305. vot tak says:
    @Hoyt Thorpe

    “Trump’s presidency has been extraordinary for not embroiling us in a regime change conflict.”

    Yeah, just ask the Venezuelans and the Chinese…

  306. @vot tak

    “Trump’s presidency has been extraordinary for not embroiling us in a regime change conflict.”

    Yeah, just ask the Venezuelans and the Chinese…

    You must be a moron if you seriously think that the Trump Administration is trying for regime change in China?

    Venezuela, sure, but they deserve it.

    However, you left out Ukraine and Belarus. Probably because it is entrenched elements in the deep state who are behind those little affairs.

    • Troll: vot tak
    • Replies: @vot tak
  307. Curiously, gmail will not allow you to upload the image from here:

    Try it. Save the image and then try to send it to someone using gmail!

    This seems like censorship!

  308. canspeccy says:
    @anon

    Really don’t understand any of it.
    And, don’t care what these mouthers say.

    The link I provided gives you an argument, but it cannot give you the faculty of understanding.

  309. canspeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    I would need some help in explaining a big change in mortality in the so-called 2nd wave comparing to the 1st wave.

    What you don’t understand is that mathematics are the bane of the biomedical sciences. Incompetent scientists appeal to mathematicians with nothing better to do than attempt to extract meaning from the results of poorly designed studies.

    The mathematicians don’t understand the science, the scientists don’t understand the math. But, hey, this piddling effect has a P value of less than 0.05 so there’s another publication, and the journal publisher will be happy to pocket another few thousand dollars in profit by publishing another few thousand words of trash.

    Your problem is that you don’t understand what you are seeing because you don’t attend to how the “facts” you are dealing were obtained and you don’t understand what the “facts” are that the test result indicates.

    You accept “test positivity” as proof of infection, but you don’t know that. You don’t know the test false positive rate, the false negative rate, or the test sensitivity. And even if the test is totally accurate, which it is not, you don’t know whether a positive test result indicates (a) an infected person who is either sick now or soon will be, (b) an infected but asymptomatic person who is not sick now and never will be, (c) a person who was infected with or without sickness, who is now recovered but still carries anti-bodies or viral RNA fragments (depending on the type test used) as the test indicates. All of these cases you lump together as new infections.

    Furthermore, you don’t understand the seasonality of viral epidemics. Hence you project your naive misinterpretation of the data as indisputable mathematically concise fact, whereas it is in fact mere fantasy.

    If the death rate from Covid19 has collapsed, as it has in Northern areas, that means the epidemic is over. The bullshit about masks and lock-downs is just that bullshit, which you and Ron Unz are, apparently, determined to maintain.

    • LOL: utu
  310. Tor597 says:
    @vot tak

    You forgot Bolivia and Syria lol. There are so many it is hard to keep track of.

    • Replies: @vot tak
  311. Ron Unz, you are ignoring the fact that evidence points to COVID19 being years in the making, like 911. About 15 years ago over 196 countries signed on to participate in this ‘scamdemic’, including a Live Exercise (as it was described by Mike Pompeo) by 2020, with another to follow.
    https://beforeitsnews.com/new-world-order/2020/09/covid-19-is-a-united-nations-exercise-signed-off-on-by-196-countries-in-2005-to-usher-in-the-new-world-order-part-2-interview-and-links-9089.html
    A few years later in 2010 the Rockefeller Foundation released its outline for the ‘Live Exercise’ and the protocols nations had to follow during the ‘plandemic’, now named COVID19. In their report it was the H1N1 virus. Here’s the full report titled’ Scenarios for the Future of Technology and International Development. Go to page 18 and the section LOCKDOWN:
    https://archive.org/details/pdfy-tNG7MjZUicS-wiJb/page/n51/mode/2up
    There are many reasons for this to have happened, and Globalization is just 1. Another just may be because the USA is bankrupt, and short of a shooting war, this maybe seen by Western elites as a soft way out. But, China also was 1 of the 196 nations to sign the contract. And, a 3rd, and most alarming reason, may be de-population through mandatory vaccination.
    We’re in a mess.

  312. gavishti says:
    @utu

    Well then carry on carrying along the burden of mass hysteria. My good wishes for you.
    Modern medicine’s does ameliorate this disease, doesn’t it. I know of several of such tried and tested medicines, it’s a very long list. Haven’t they achieved such very good results, so why are we are still discussing this present epidemic.

    Where I agree with you is that this particular epidemic originated in China as has been pointed out by this scientist –

    https://mobile.twitter.com/LiMengYAN119/status/1305500268214222848?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1305500268214222848%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.zerohedge.com%2Fmedical%2Frogue-chinese-virologist-joins-twitter-publishes-evidence-covid-19-created-lab

    https://mobile.twitter.com/LiMengYAN119/status/1305501949513609217?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1305501949513609217%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.zerohedge.com%2Fmedical%2Frogue-chinese-virologist-joins-twitter-publishes-evidence-covid-19-created-lab

    • Replies: @utu
  313. utu says:
    @gavishti

    “I agree with you is that this particular epidemic originated in China”. – This is not what I believe. I just do not know where and how it originated. Ron Unz’s hypothesis cannot be easily dismissed. That I contested this hypothesis here comes from my natural skepticism and need to clarify what we know from what we assume.

    • Replies: @gavishti
  314. vot tak says:
    @Peripatetic Commenter

    “You must be a moron if you seriously think that the Trump Administration is trying for regime change in China?”

    Ever hear of a place called Hong Kong, shlomo?

    “Venezuela, sure, but they deserve it.”

    Especially since they booted your israeli saboteurs (no israeli embassy in Venezuela – how sad). The usual guardianista zio-faggotry.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Commenter
  315. JWalters says:
    @SunBakedSuburb

    I agree. I’d add that the anthrax scare that accompanied the 9/11 attack was probably part of that attack scenario, and hence an Israeli job using anthrax proven to be from Fort Detrick.

    Now we have the tape of Trump telling Bob Woodward early on that he understood clearly the severity of the COVID virus, but was not telling people to protect the stock market. And we also know that he was advised to do this by Israeli asset Jared Kushner. “Of Course Jared Kushner Told Trump the Coronavirus Was Fake News”
    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/03/jared-kushner-coronavirus-fake-news

    Kushner is clearly a mouthpiece for Netanyahu, who passes the instructions along to Trump. So this is another piece of evidence that COVID is an Israeli operation to torpedo the U.S. economy, providing another cover to milk the U.S. through its Wall Street affiliates, create chaos and divide any opposition. The history of Israel’s infiltration into the U.S. is sketched in “War Profiteers and Israel’s Bank”
    https://warprofiteerstory.blogspot.com/p/war-profiteers-and-israels-bank.html

    Side note: Dr. Fauci told the American public NOT to wear face masks while knowing they were ESSENTIAL for health workers, he later admitted. He could have advised saving the hospital masks for health workers and using bandanas for everyone else. Who told him to make that catestrophic decision?

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Alden
  316. utu says:
    @JWalters

    “Side note: Dr. Fauci told the American public NOT to wear face masks while knowing they were ESSENTIAL for health workers, he later admitted. He could have advised saving the hospital masks for health workers and using bandanas for everyone else. Who told him to make that catastrophic decision?” – My theory is that historically in the West unlike in the East Asia we depend more on vaccines and it is in the interest of Big Pharma to have high demand for vaccines, so CDC does not promote mask wearing which if worn by 80% of society could make vaccines for flu like diseases practically unnecessary. Even this May in the middle of the epidemic CDC published a misleading article about the ineffectiveness of masks (to cover their asses I presume). The article was not about R0 reduction which is the most important reason for the universal mask wearing but about chances of being infected while wearing mask among people who do not wear masks. (*).

    You are right that the decision was catastrophic. It suffices to look at Taiwan which was producing 19 millions of masks every day and supplying them to its citizens. The end results: only 499 cases and 7 deaths in population larger than NY state.

    People from CDC and Dr. Fauci should be tried for misleading information that lead to the spread of the epidemics and leading to thousands of avoidable deaths. Gov. Cuomo should be tried for not rescinding soon enough the order of sending patients back to nursing homes when there was plenty of room in temporary hospitals in NYC that never were used and for objecting to Rhode Island when the governor of Rhode Island tried to close the border with the New York State. De Blasio should be tried for reducing transportation service which lead to overcrowding in subways and buses. And all Democrats who were objecting to stopping flights from Asia or Europe. And obviously Trump for being wishy washy and ineffectual. In China or Stalin Russia they would be all shot.

    (*) wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article, “Nonpharmaceutical Measures for Pandemic Influenza in Nonhealthcare Settings—Personal Protective and Environmental Measures”, May 2020

    • Replies: @Tor597
  317. anastasia says:

    “The response of America’s national government to the Covid-19 outbreak was among the worst and most incompetent in the world, with only India and Brazil challenging our place at the bottom of the charts…..”

    This is pure nonsense. If we followed Scandinavia there would be virtually no deaths from this so-called “virus.”

    Be that as it may, why doesn’t Ron Unz spend the time to look into the test that found the new strain of virus; why doesn’t he look into the tests that “detect” the virus. He should ask himself why this virus does not have fixed symptoms, but ever changing symptoms. Diagnosis is made by “symptoms”, and if symptoms are insufficient to diagnose, then tests are conducted. So diagnosis is dependent upon symptoms and tests, and if both are unreliable, as they are with Covid, how in the world is one diagnosed with Covid? And if he really wants to know why people died, he should look at the Executive Orders promulgated by the various lunatic governors of the state. Take New York, for instance. Let’s go over them

    [MORE]

    (1) New York laid off many hospital doctors and nurses at the commencement of this pandemic under the guise that there were no elective surgeries,
    (2) After doing the above, Cuomo passed an Executive Order inviting people with no medical credentials into our hospitals to treat Covid patients,
    (3) after doing that, Cuomo passed an Executive Order granting full immunity from civil or criminal liability for anyone treating Covid patients including those uncredentialed and unlicensed invitees.
    (4) After doing that, he passed an Executive Order that those uncredentialed and unlicensed people invited into NY hospitals to treat Covid patients in hospitals had to work under the supervision of a licensed doctor, but if they didn’t work under the supervision of doctors while treating Covid patients, they were also granted full immunity from criminal and civil liability.
    (5) Those uncredentialed and unlicensed who invited into New York hospitals from out of state AND out of the country were given pay that was nearly 5X the money they got in their own states and countries (causing the NY hotels to be filled with these invitees), and more than the doctors and nurses they laid off.
    (6) New York nursing homes were given more money for keeping residents of nursing homes with Covid in the nursing homes for care for the virus
    (7) New York nursing homes did not have the wherewithal to treat Covid patients, relying upon such “comfort care” treatments such as morphine. Further, nursing home staffs stayed out of the rooms of Covid patients because of heightened fear of the virus, inculcated in them by the media leaving residents to languish untreated.
    (8) New York hospitals were throwing out nursing home residents or barring from their hospitals despite illnesses that required hospitalization.
    (9) doctors were instructed to put down Covid as cause of death, usurping the judgment of the treating doctors;
    (10) hospitals were given more money when patients were diagnosed with Covid
    (11) hospitals were directed by the CDC to place Covid patients on ventilators, despite knowing that ventilators have a 50 percent mortality rate under any circumstances, and were givenmore money when patients were put on ventilators.

    These measures are a recipe for disaster, and if he doesn’t see that, he knows nothing about human nature and is not thinking.

  318. Tor597 says:
    @utu

    Utu,

    Curious what you think will happen with the winter season in America. Do you think we will face a bad 2nd wave? Or have we effectively contained the virus and the worst is over?

    • Replies: @utu
  319. utu says:
    @Tor597

    I do not think anybody really knows. We have a 2nd wave already in various places.. Look at Israel how much worse is their 2nd wave or Spain. Israel just went on the 2nd more strict lockdown. Fortunately the mortality in the 2nd wave is lower than in the 1st. In Spain it seems that mortality might be up 10 times lower.

    If we get another wave in winter that would be the 3rd wave.

    When temperatures are lower and humidity is lower the viruses like Covid-19 suppose to be more infectious however high humidity and temperatures did not spare Manaus on Amazon river from sever epidemic.

    Note that NY state does not have signs of the 2nd wave possibly because now it is pretty strict about mask wearing and social distancing.

    • Thanks: Tor597
    • Replies: @canspeccy
  320. @SimplePseudonymicHandle

    “If an aircraft carrier is sunk in a tangle with China it will not be because of a lack of capable means of defending the carriers, it will be due to a failure of application of the means of defense.The most likely outcome of a shooting war with China is: the entire Chinese navy will be sunk, and for good measure most likely the entire Chinese merchant marine, and the entire Chinese air force will be crushed, down to the last fake Cessna.”

    And the above from a guy who just said that those who know don’t say. A mythopoeic Yankee boy at work.

  321. @Corvinus

    “In other words, you will have to be specific on how they came up with this “ultimate game plan”.

    They’re not going to openly tell you that they Planned, met, and executed the operation. You have to analyze their own websites, how they are using the crisis, and the many details of information they provide, themselves, in the years leading up to this operation. You can start with Klaus Schwab, who founded the World Economic Forum, WEF. He is the one speaking about the “4th Industrial Revolution” and the “Great Reset”, which details how they want to take advantage of this crisis. Also you can see the John Hopkins simulation (they put their simulation entirely on youtube) which details the simulation of a virus pandemic.

    Those are just 2 examples, but there are many more.

    Haven’t you heard of Davos? Not to mention many other ParasitElite only conferences that always remain secretive in what they talk about. https://www.weforum.org/events/world-economic-forum-annual-meeting-2020

    Covid19 has “operation” all over it. Covid19 is real, but this was used to slow the economy and the Floyd’s death as another social engineering exercise.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  322. canspeccy says:
    @utu

    Look at Israel how much worse is their 2nd wave or Spain.

    That’s not a second wave, it’s the main wave following an earlier ripple, same with Florida, Mexico…

    Seasonal cyclicity is a ubiquitous feature of acute infectious diseases [1] and may be a ubiquitous feature of human infectious diseases in general, as illustrated in Tables ​Tables11–4. Each acute infectious disease has its own seasonal window of occurrence, which, importantly, may vary among geographic locations and differ from other diseases within the same location.

    The calendar of epidemics: Seasonal cycles of infectious diseases

  323. Alden says:
    @BobX

    So what? COPD, whether the patient smokes or not is a deadly disease and has no cure. 1 year, 10 years, COPD kills.

  324. Alden says:
    @JWalters

    I saw 2 Drs the first week of March. Both told me those floppy medical masks were useless because the masks let anything in through the sides. That was Tuesday and Wednesday.

    The next Monday, I believe March 11 I flew. LAX airport was empty. No lines even at TSA. Masks mandatory. Next day March 12 the entire state was locked down.

    From masks useless to masks mandatory in 5 days.

    • Replies: @utu
  325. gavishti says:
    @utu

    I had sent links of the Twitter account of Dr. Li-Meng Yan, who published a scientific paper demonstrating that the Covid-19 virus was manmade. Today her Twitter account stands suspended.

    Her tweet was a link to her scientific paper co-written with three other Chinese scientists titled “Unusual Features of the SARS-CoV-2 Genome Suggesting Sophisticated Laboratory Modification Rather Than Natural Evolution and Delineation of Its Probable Synthetic Route” which laid out why the Wuhan Institute of Virology had created the covid-19 virus.

    Why is there such a hurry to shut her down. If this doesn’t rouse one’s skepticism what will ? Anyway, here is another link to her co-authored paper –

    https://zenodo.org/record/4028830#.X2E6c1NX6dO

    • Thanks: Brás Cubas
  326. utu says:
    @Alden

    It amazes me why so many people do not get what is the mechanism of wearing masks. Why the imperfect masks are effective? Perhaps it has something to do with the individualistic, self-reliant and selfish value system where one maximizes his benefit only based on his own actions only and he can’t cognitively cross the barrier to comprehend the synergistic effects of concerted action by a group.

    Obviously a mask reduces the probability p(T) of getting infected in time T but not to zero. Because masks are imperfect. The probability p(T) increases with T and for sufficiently long time T the probability p(T) is 1. Longer time T means more contacts with potentially infectious people. A masked person in the environment of mask-less group has reduced probability of getting infected but in a long enough time as virus jumps from one person to another person the epidemic continues and he remains among the infectious people so in a long enough time T he will get infected as well. He will not be among the first but eventually he will get it. So in that sense only your two dumb doctors were correct. This is the worst case scenario thinking (typical for libertarian calculus) that you will eventually get infected so why bother with the inconvenience of wearing a mask and spending money on it.

    But everything changes when almost everybody wears a mask. The probability of virus jumping between people is greatly reduced and the fact that the time an infected person remains infectious is finite means the epidemic can be brought to a halt. By wearing masks we can outlast (on average) the infected mask wearing people. Before the infected people can infect you they cease to be infectious. This means that the reproduction number R0 is dropping below one and getting smaller and then after crossing an infection point as time T increases the probability p(T) of you getting infected is actually getting smaller (because there is less and less infectious people) which is the opposite of what we had in the previous scenario. So even a libertarian who is concerned with his ass only should argue for everybody wearing masks.

    Obviously this is not true with all diseases. But for flu like diseases including Covid-19 their infectiousness and the duration of infection imply that if masks are worn by at least approximately 80% of population the epidemic can be halted and extinguished. If we got into the habit of universal mask wearing during flu seasons we could bankrupt the Big Pharma flu vaccine business.

    A concerted action requires sacrifices and different moral calculus that people bitten by the venomous snake of libertarianism are not used to. The probabilities of death due to IFR exponential dependence on age for flu and Covid-19 are dramatically different for different age groups. It would require wearing masks by people who are the least affected by the disease to protect the people who are the most vulnerable. How can you argue in a libertarian moral system, if there is one, and convince an average RU contributor or commenter that old people are worth sacrificing for? How could you convince the Stalinist Israel Shamir or the Chamber of Commerce demagogue Mike Whitney who both believe that Swedish old folks were not worth saving? That saving them was too big a sacrifice. And then there are all kinds of opportunist new born sons and daughters of liberty who jumped on the anti-mask bandwagon because like all opportunists they like crowded places.

    The response of people to Covid-19 unmasked a bottomless pit of stupidity at least here at the UR where I witnessed it. I really wonder if Ron Unz has any illusions left for whom he runs this webzine and what good does it do? It stopped me from dabbling in most of conspiracy theories because I saw they are promoted by the same people who were unmasked by Covid-19. I realized that real trolls and shameless propagandists do exist. Thank you Covid-19 for letting me see more clearly.

  327. Bill Meyer says: • Website

    Good article. The section “Consider that nearly 200,000 Americans have already died and our business economy has suffered trillions of dollars in losses. Most great wars have been launched on merely a sliver of such justification” stuck with me.

    I think it hasn’t caused more problems with the sheep because most have figured out the CDC report that only 6% total Wu deaths died ONLY of SARS-Cov-2. Vast majority of the deaths are multiple comorbidities. Obesity, diabetes, congestive heart failure, emphysema, with old age (in our state, Oregon) the #1 indicator. Not saying that makes it good, just reality. The economic destruction is the real fraud and “part of the plan”?

  328. MEH 0910 says:

    ******however******

    hbd chick Retweeted:

    • Thanks: Iris
    • Replies: @Tor597
    , @Tor597
  329. Ron Unz says:
    @utu

    The response of people to Covid-19 unmasked a bottomless pit of stupidity at least here at the UR where I witnessed it. I really wonder if Ron Unz has any illusions left for whom he runs this webzine and what good does it do? It stopped me from dabbling in most of conspiracy theories because I saw they are promoted by the same people who were unmasked by Covid-19. I realized that real trolls and shameless propagandists do exist. Thank you Covid-19 for letting me see more clearly.

    Well, I’ll admit I was pretty shocked myself about the huge fraction of seemingly-rational writers and commenters who turned out to be Flu Hoaxers or fellow-travelers. As a consequence, I was unfortunately forced to re-weight their credibility on all sorts of other issues…

    But I really doubt that many of them were trolls or propagandists—they seemed entirely sincere. Maybe one of the problems is that people outside the sciences have trouble evaluating scientific issues. Also, once you (rightfully) become very skeptical of the MSM, it’s easier for you to be led astray on all sorts of other issues.

    • Thanks: utu
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @JackOH
    , @Anon
  330. Covid 19 deaths just reached 200,000 deaths in the USA.

    The highest death numbers for a flu season is about 60,000.

  331. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    Maybe one of the problems is that people outside the sciences have trouble evaluating scientific issues.

    Agreed. And among those commenting here, that would seem to apply to Utu. Specifically, what does he know about the effectiveness of face masks? Nothing one may infer from the complete absence of references to the scientific literature in his derisive comments on those who question the value of face masks in stopping viral spread.

    But were Utu and others of like mind to investigate the scientific literature on the effectiveness of masks they would be surprised to find that it fails to provide general support for their view. On the contrary, it indicates that masks may do more harm than good.

    For example, published research has shown that those, like Utu, who are confident that face masks provide significant protection from the transmission of infection are likely to engage in “risk compensation” such that they:

    would stand, sit or walk closer to the stranger when either of them was wearing a mask. This form of risk compensation was stronger for those who believed masks were effective at preventing catching or spreading Covid-19, and for younger (18-40 years) compared to older (over 65 years) participants.

    Then there is this article, entitled: More Than a Dozen Credible Medical Studies Prove Face Masks Do Not Work Even In Hospitals!, which provides a number of references to scientific journal articles that support the claim made in the title.

    I could give more references on this topic, as I have done here, but these should suffice to indicate that the effectiveness of face masks is not “settled science,” to use a term deployed by those who seem to know least what science is.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
    , @utu
  332. For example, published research has shown that those, like Utu, who are confident that face masks provide significant protection from the transmission of infection are likely to engage in “risk compensation” such that they:

    would stand, sit or walk closer to the stranger when either of them was wearing a mask. This form of risk compensation was stronger for those who believed masks were effective at preventing catching or spreading Covid-19, and for younger (18-40 years) compared to older (over 65 years) participants.

    Libertarian folks are invariably bragging about socializing like there’s no tomorrow, and refusing to wear masks. So, masks couldn’t possibly increase their own recklessness, because it is already at a maximum. But it would increase it for the rest of the population. They are different from libertarians. Of course libertarians wish everybody else were like them. Reckless. So, they are preaching recklessness to everyone. And one of the things people should do is not wear masks. Because masks would increase their recklessness.

    Then there is this article, entitled: More Than a Dozen Credible Medical Studies Prove Face Masks Do Not Work Even In Hospitals!, which provides a number of references to scientific journal articles that support the claim made in the title.

    What do you mean by “even” in that sentence? Why should hospitals be a place where they would work better than elsewhere? Furthermore, bacterial infections are different in their dynamics from viral infections, so one should analyze them separately.

    It is perfectly obvious that masks have limits. Even if you completely deny their efficacy for stopping the spread, there is also the matter of their action in reducing the *amount* of virus which passes to a certain person, which in turn will mean smaller viral loads and milder illnesses.

    • Replies: @canspeccy
    , @lysias
  333. JackOH says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron, I’ve publicly speculated that “maskophobes”, those who reject mask-wearing, COVID-19 deniers, COVID-19 skeptics, along with anti-vaxxers, and, possibly, the medically uninsured forced to work in retail, delivery, assisted living, etc., amount to a loosely connected political constituency. That loose connection is, in my opinion, probably a jumbled theory of convenience that ought to be explored somehow through speculative journalism, focus groups, and the like.

    My Ohio authorities are sure to see mask-wearing as a public education and very occasional enforcement issue. More “science issues” education may not help much, though, if you have a population that’s already conjured up its own self-education (of sorts) that let’s it go about its daily business without having to sort through the mass of confusing information put out through the media and government spokesmen.

    BTW-I listen to the state authorities, and I mask up. Caution preferable to error, all that.

  334. @CanSpeccy

    For some reason, my reply to you appeared as the standalone comment immediately after yours (comment number 336):

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/31000-words-missing-from-the-atlantic-and-the-new-york-times-sunday-magazine/#comment-4166559

  335. Anon[639] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    @ “ And then there are all kinds of opportunist new born sons and daughters of liberty who jumped on the anti-mask bandwagon because like all opportunists they like crowded places.”

    😂😂 Bravo. Thank you for all the links and number-crunching during Covid19. I hadn’t realized how very widespread the libertarian theology is. Recently a Spanish acquaintance said something like “read less Marx and more Mises!”.. he does not know it all stays in the (((family))). Marx wants to abolish private property. Libertarians want to abolish community. Both anti-human tenets.

    • Thanks: utu
  336. canspeccy says: • Website
    @Brás Cubas

    What do you mean by “even” in that sentence?

    First, it’s not my sentence, as my reference to it makes clear.

    Second, if you do not understand the meaning of commonly used English words, you will find a Google search generally provides enlightenment.

    As for your claim:

    It is perfectly obvious that masks have limits.

    it misses the point, which is whether masks can be counterproductive.

    • Replies: @canspeccy
  337. lysias says:
    @Brás Cubas

    I have asthma. A mask makes it difficult for me to breathe. In the UK, people with a doctor’s note attesting that they have asthma are exempted from the rule requiring them to wear a mask on public transportation. No such exemption here in the U.S.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  338. Polemos says:
    @utu

    So even a libertarian who is concerned with his ass only should argue for everybody wearing masks.

    Concerning asses, the article “Aerosol transmission of SARS-CoV-2? Evidence, prevention and control” found on sciencedirect.com" rel="nofollow">sciencedirect:

    In February 2020 in Guangzhou, Guangdong Province, China, SARS-CoV-2 RNA was found on surface samples (e.g. sink, faucet, and shower handle) collected from a bathroom in a long-vacant 16th floor apartment, which was right above the bathroom of the apartment of five persons with COVID-19 (confirmed between Jan 26 and 30; Source: unpublished data from China CDC). The possibility of aerosol transport through sewage pipe after flushing the toilet at the 15th floor restroom was confirmed by an onsite tracer simulation experiment showing that aerosols were found in the restroom of apartments on the 25th floor (two cases confirmed on Feb 1) and 27th floor (two cases were confirmed on Feb 6 and 13, respectively) of the building (Source: unpublished data from China CDC). Although transmission via the shared elevator cannot be excluded, this event is consistent with the findings of the Amoy Gardens SARS outbreak in Hong Kong in 2003 (Chu et al., 2005, Lee et al., 2003, Li et al., 2005, Yu et al., 2004).

    Perhaps the tall buildings and skycrapers in urban environments help infections: instructed to wash their hands, people keep returning to a site where aerosolized viral particles waft upwards from downstairs folk infected.

    Restrooms, owing to the shedding of SARS-CoV-2 in fecal material and aerosolization during toilet flushing, should be thoroughly cleaned regularly (e.g. ventilation and sterilization). If the toilet seat is equipped with a lid, it is recommended to close the lid before flushing the toilet, especially in hospitals. Floor drains and other outlets of sewer should have adding water frequently to ensure seals work at all time. The role of sewer pipes in aerosol transmission should also be taken into account in future architectural design. In slums, inadequate sewage and drainage systems may increase the risk of formation of aerosol and spread.

    Perhaps COVID-19 will help motivate entire populations of men, especially those who think of their actions as responsible service for the welfare of others, to do the right thing and close the toilet lid.

    If it’s easy to mask up, it’s easier to lid down.

  339. canspeccy says: • Website
    @canspeccy

    Re: whether face masks can be counterproductive, see this hospital study reported in the BMJ showing an increased risk of respiratory illness among hospital staff from wearing face masks.

  340. Anon[272] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron,

    Sincere questions: If the media had not ever broadcast the spectre of Covid-19 to your consciousness, is there anything that has occurred in your personal life in the last 9 months or so that would have signalled to you that you may need to alter your behavior/choices, and, if so, what would those signals have been and how would you have altered your behavior/ choices?

  341. @utu

    You seem to be a very science-minded person, and, since the subject of your well-argued comment is masks, I thought you — and others like you — might be interested in this small article published a few days ago in the New England Journal of Medicine:

    “Facial Masking for Covid-19 — Potential for “Variolation” as We Await a Vaccine”
    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2026913

    Here’s the first paragraph:

    As SARS-CoV-2 continues its global spread, it’s possible that one of the pillars of Covid-19 pandemic control — universal facial masking — might help reduce the severity of disease and ensure that a greater proportion of new infections are asymptomatic. If this hypothesis is borne out, universal masking could become a form of “variolation” that would generate immunity and thereby slow the spread of the virus in the United States and elsewhere, as we await a vaccine.

    • LOL: CanSpeccy
    • Replies: @utu
  342. Corvinus says:
    @freedom-cat

    “They’re not going to openly tell you that they Planned, met, and executed the operation.”

    I see. We are just to assume that they did these things in secret, and it is all part of their machinations. In this way, one need not offer evidence, just a belief. Except that is not how things actually work.

    “You have to analyze their own websites, how they are using the crisis, and the many details of information they provide, themselves, in the years leading up to this operation”.

    I see, enable your confirmation bias to run rampant. In this way, we only accept the ideas that conform to our worldview.

    “You can start with Klaus Schwab, who founded the World Economic Forum, WEF. He is the one speaking about the “4th Industrial Revolution” and the “Great Reset”, which details how they want to take advantage of this crisis”.

    Assuming that they–whoever “they” are–desire to create crisis and take advantage of it.

    “Haven’t you heard of Davos? Not to mention many other ParasitElite only conferences that always remain secretive in what they talk about.”

    Which does not mean that they–whoever “they” are–seek to control us and the world.

    “Covid19 has “operation” all over it”.

    Maybe. Then again, probably not.

  343. utu says:
    @Brás Cubas

    Thanks for the link. The note is based on their paper:

    Masks Do More Than Protect Others During COVID-19: Reducing the Inoculum of SARS-CoV-2 to Protect the Wearer. (July 2020)
    http://cel.webofknowledge.com/InboundService.do?customersID=atyponcel&smartRedirect=yes&mode=FullRecord&IsProductCode=Yes&product=CEL&Init=Yes&Func=Frame&action=retrieve&SrcApp=literatum&SrcAuth=atyponcel&SID=8Fbb3xoTvWXf6FnM25F&UT=WOS%3A000554341200002

    Certainly this is very interesting:

    Recent virologic, epidemiologic, and ecologic data have led to the hypothesis that facial masking may also reduce the severity of disease among people who do become infected.3 This possibility is consistent with a long-standing theory of viral pathogenesis, which holds that the severity of disease is proportionate to the viral inoculum received. Since 1938, researchers have explored, primarily in animal models, the concept of the lethal dose of a virus — or the dose at which 50% of exposed hosts die (LD50). With viral infections in which host immune responses play a predominant role in viral pathogenesis, such as SARS-CoV-2, high doses of viral inoculum can overwhelm and dysregulate innate immune defenses, increasing the severity of disease.

    If true then it would be a great news. But this is not related to my argument which was strictly epidemiological under the assumption of binary: infected-n0t-infected model and the probability of being infected not related to mortality or severity of symptoms. But if the paper is correct that the mask not only reduce the probability of getting infected but also reduce the severity of infection then the universal masking is even more desirable. This may partially account for the significant reduction in mortality in the 2nd wave (see Spain as a striking example). And may further support my statement that by universal mask wearing we may put the Big Pharma flu vaccine program out of business. Interestingly the CDC director who as we know lost all credibility in Spring now claims that

    “CDC director Robert Redfield said face masks may be more effective than a vaccine in preventing individual coronavirus infections”
    https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-director-masks-better-than-vaccines-at-stopping-coronavirus-2020-9

    It always feels good to see sinners and wrongdoers come around but I am afraid Robert Redfield is just a political animal who everything he does is the result of political orders he receives muddled in his not insignificant incompetence.

    • Agree: Brás Cubas
  344. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    The “risk compensation” idiocy was tried before during the American debate about the seat belts in 1970s.

    The Effects of Automobile Safety Regulation, Sam Peltzman, Journal of Political Economy
    Vol. 83, No. 4 (Aug., 1975), pp. 677-726

    “Technological studies imply that annual highway deaths would be 20 percent greater without legally mandated installation of various safety devices on automobiles. However, this literature ignores offsetting effects of nonregulatory demand for safety and driver response to the devices. This article indicates that these offsets are virtually complete, so that regulation has not decreased highway deaths.”

    Then in 1970s the automotive industry used the libertarian sentiments among Americans. It is not surprising that the paper you cite was written by some hacks from a business school.

    Libertarians never fail to play a role of useful idiots for some big business interest. That’s why the libertarianism was created. It I about turning idiots into useful ones a well as creating new ones. In the case of masks this is the Big Pharma interests and their vaccination programs that utilizes their idiocy.

  345. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    Libertarians never fail to play a role of useful idiots for some big business interest.

    LOL. Utu the great scientists resolves the issue of face masks by calling idiots, stooges big business and Libertarians all those who don’t accept his unsubstantiated opinion.

    But tell us, Utu, in what way does big business benefit from the non-use of face masks? Surely if face masks work as you claim, big business would demand that everyone wear one, yet in fact business seems merely to follow the dictates of the supposed experts such as Fauci who first said face masks didn’t work but now, for no obvious reason, says that they do.

    Anyway, what’s libertarian about the authors of the paper I cited above showing that face masks increase the risk of respiratory illness in a Vietnamese hospital? Here are the author affiliations.

    1 Faculty of Medicine, School of Public Health and Community Medicine, University of New South Wales, Sydney, Australia
    2 National Institute of Hygiene and Epidemiology, Hanoi, Vietnam
    3 Institute for Clinical Pathology and Medical Research, Westmead Hospital and University of Sydney, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
    4 Beijing Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Beijing, China

    These are not well known as hotbeds of Libertarianism.

    Maybe, instead of just BS you could provide some actual evidence to counter that of many journal articles that show that use of face masks can be counterproductive in efforts to prevent viral spread.

  346. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    Ron Unz, it seems, is absolutely resistant to the idea that Covid19 is a health hazard comparable with influenza, but when the panic dies down and the data are compiled it may be found that the difference in deadliness between the two is not anywhere near so great as many suppose.

    [MORE]

    Reported yearly US deaths due to influenza are about 150 per million, whereas Covid deaths will likely be around four times that number by the end of this year. However, Covid death data have likely been over-reported (perhaps greatly) for reasons such as those cited above by Anastasia. Moreover, Covid deaths have been greatly increased due to the insane practice of New York and other states of forcing care homes populated by the most vulnerable citizens to accept Covid-infected persons from whom the virus spread with deadly consequences.

    It is also the case that, whereas many Americans will have some residual immunity to flu, all began 202o with zero Covid immunity, meaning that in future years the death toll due to Covid will likely be much lower than this year, due to the acquisition of population immunity. Moreover, in future years many Americans will likely have a Covid shot along with their annual flu shot, thereby reducing even further the difference in lethality between these agents.

    So, no need to panic folks. If you feel safer wearing a face mask, even though it may increase your risk of respiratory illness, don’t let me discourage you. But for God’s sake don’t allow your probably false sense of security to allow you to crowd me in busy public places. If, unbeknownst to you, you’ve already got the disease that flimsy mask won’t catch more than a trivial proportion of the virus-laden aerosolized spit that you are spewing in all directions.

  347. Vidi says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Isn’t it plausible then that that government would keep [Covid-19] a secret even if they knew a month earlier that there was an outbreak?

    No, it isn’t plausible. The reason is that Covid-19 spreads far too quickly. A month’s delay would have distributed the virus everywhere in China, so that the new disease could not possibly have been eradicated, and the Chinese economic system would have been completely devastated. (This was probably what the crazy perpetrators wanted.)

    As it turned out, China’s government reacted with incredible speed and was able to quarantine the virus to one province, and within that province, to one city (Wuhan). The remainder of the country was not affected much. So we know the virus was successfully kept local, which means there could not possibly have been the kind of long initial coverup that you suggest.

    • Thanks: mark green
  348. Tor597 says:
    @MEH 0910

    Hey, how do you get twitter links to show up as cards in this thread?

    • Replies: @Polemos
  349. Vidi says:
    @Corvinus

    Furthermore, why in THIS specific case is ABC News and the intelligence community to be trusted, given how we are told time and time again by posters here and your stable of writers that the MSM perpetually lies and the intelligence community is deeply intertwined with the “Deep State”?

    A tidbit. The report, distributed in November 2019, warning of a “cataclysmic event” in Wuhan, was supposedly written by the National Center for Medical Intelligence (NCMI). The headquarters of the NCMI? Fort Detrick (link).

    Another point. The ABC News story on the NCMI report (link) was very brief — but it still had two authors (Josh Margolin and James Gordon Meek). Why two authors for a very short report? Presumably because of all the fact-checking they did. The news could still be fake, of course, but that appears less likely.

    • Thanks: Tor597
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  350. @vot tak

    Ever hear of a place called Hong Kong, shlomo?

    I have been to Hong Kong on a number of occasions.

    The people of Hong Kong are very different to the people of the rest of China and mainland Chinese have very little sympathy for the people of Hong Kong, so any fomenting of insurrection in Hong Kong is not going to translate to the mainland.

    I base that opinion on experience with many people from Hong Kong and mainland China.

  351. @CanSpeccy

    Indeed, Ron seems so intent on spreading panic porn about this that he has missed an important issue.

    This article points out a serious issue with all the panic around ‘cases’ from testing people for the presence of RNA fragments from Corona Viruses:

    COVID – why terminology really, really matters

    [MORE]

    The specific issue is this:

    ‘In epidemiology, a case fatality rate (CFR) — sometimes called case fatality risk or disease lethality — is the proportion of deaths from a certain disease compared to the total number of symptomatic people diagnosed with the disease.’ 1

    Note the word symptomatic i.e. someone with symptoms.

    However, now we stick a swab up someone’s nose, who feels completely well, or very mildly ill. We find that they have some COVID particles lodged up there, and we call them a case of COVID. Sigh, thud!

    He goes on to say:

    A symptomless, or even mildly symptomatic positive swab is not a case. Never, in recorded history, has this been true. However, now we have an almost unquestioned acceptance that a positive swab represents a case of COVID. This is then parroted on all the news channels as if it were gospel.

    I note that, at last, some people are beginning to question how it can be that, whilst cases are going up and up, deaths are going down, and down.

    This is even the case in Sweden, which seems to be the final bastion of people with functioning brains. However, even they seem surprised by this dichotomy. In the first two weeks of August they had 4,152 positive swabs. Yet, in the last two weeks of August, they had a mere 14 deaths (one a day, on average).

    That represents 1 death for every 300 positive swabs or, as the mainstream media insists on calling them, positive ‘cases’. Which, currently, represent a case fatality rate of 0.33%. Just to compare that with something similar, the case fatality rate of swine flu (HIN1), was 0.5%. 2

    It sure seems like Ron is following the #LyingMSM in pushing panic porn on this!

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  352. Polemos says:
    @Tor597

    Copy the text you want to paste, and when you paste it into the message, use the blockquote tag around the material. There’s an assumed break when using that tag, so keep that in mind if you find spacing matters for you.

    You can test out how you want it to look.

    Just be sure to preview things to be sure.

    — Polemos (@Faketwitters &c) September 17, 2020

    • Thanks: Tor597
  353. Vidi says:
    @Redman

    Nobody ever defines what centralized coordination would have accomplished. It’s quite lazy thinking really.

    The lazy thinking is from you. We have definite evidence of what a competent central government can do: keep the number of dead people to under 5000 in spite of being totally surprised, as opposed to almost 200,000 in the US in spite of months of warning and potential preparation time. You might come up with some excuses for not emulating China, but that is what they would be — lazy excuses.

  354. Corvinus says:
    @Vidi

    “The headquarters of the NCMI? Fort Detrick (link).”

    Which is part of the Deep State, right? Again, why should we trust this appendage of the Department of Defense?

    “The report, distributed in November 2019, warning of a “cataclysmic event”…”

    Yes, I understand. But you have yet to submit evidence as to why we ought to believe their findings. I thought the mainstream media is the purveyor of Fake News. Case closed, end of story. Why is Ron Unz carrying their water in this particular instance?

    “Why two authors for a very short report? Presumably because of all the fact-checking they did.”

    Exactly, presumably. You do realize that James Gordon Meek previously served as Senior Counterterrorism Advisor and Investigator to two chairmen of the U.S. House Committee on Homeland Security. Would it not be in his best interest to misinterpret documents per his handlers? I mean, former intelligence officers do NOT leave the Deep State, right? At least, that is the conclusion drawn by a number of fine posters here.

    • Replies: @Vidi
  355. joe webb says:
    @mark green

    “Unlike China, these two cultures contain countless souls who are obsessed with world domination”…. So China is a piece loving puppy and the US is lumped with Israel as real Bad.

    I thought maybe my earlier objections to you personally were perhaps unkind. Now my personal objections may be trumped by your screwball luv of the Chinks, who are capable of just about anything.

    Joe

  356. Vidi says:
    @Corvinus

    Exactly, presumably. You do realize that James Gordon Meek [one of the authors of the ABC News article] previously served as Senior Counterterrorism Advisor and Investigator to two chairmen of the U.S. House Committee on Homeland Security.

    According to Meek’s LinkedIn page (link), he is also “an Emmy and SPJ Award-winnng national security investigative reporter for ABC News”.

    The other reporter of the ABC News article (link to the article) is Josh Margolin, “the Senior Investigative Reporter at ABC News, playing a key role in the network’s coverage of terrorism, corruption and law enforcement” (link).

    So these are two heavyweight reporters, with so much credibility that the NCMI director, Colonel R. Shane Day, had to make an extremely rare public statement denying that his organization wrote in November a report on a “cataclysmic event” in Wuhan. (Maybe the NCMI report was written in September, so the good Colonel was technically correct if not entirely forthcoming.)

    Now you might not give even this much credit. That is fine, you’re free to go Flat Earther — or, as Ron Unz says, solipsistic — and disbelieve nearly everything.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  357. anastasia says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Test is bogus, only one of the reasons for the false positives. This article sets forth only a few of the problems with it. https://digwithin.net/2020/04/08/covid-19-testing/

    • Thanks: canspeccy
  358. @lysias

    I suggest you wear a face shield. They offer some protection (though less than a mask), and are less uncomfortable.

  359. Corvinus says:
    @Vidi

    Sir, I am merely playing devil’s advocate. The fact of the matter is that those who routinely cry foul that the MSM and the Deep State cannot be trusted at all, in every or most nearly every situation, is a fool’s errand. Despite Mr. Unz enabling this “Fake News” mantra to infiltrate this fine blog, he clearly stated:

    Overall, the MSM is pretty unreliable**, but overall the alt-media is generally worse, and if you solipsistically dismiss both of them, then you’re left with no knowledge of reality at all. It’s important to take a source-critical approach.

    Thus, we ought to review multiple sources from different ideological perspectives and use our powers of reasoning and analysis to create a cogent response, rather than outright dismiss materials merely because they are “Jewish propaganda” or “Deep State machinations” or “MSM chicanery”.

    **I vehemently disagree with this point.

    “According to Meek’s LinkedIn page (link), he is also “an Emmy and SPJ Award-winnng national security investigative reporter for ABC News. The other reporter of the ABC News article (link to the article) is Josh Margolin, “the Senior Investigative Reporter at ABC News, playing a key role in the network’s coverage of terrorism, corruption and law enforcement” (link).”

    Appeal to authority, my friend. Of course, I would agree they both have impeccable credentials. But the question still remains, why trust them over others?

    “Now you might not give even this much credit. That is fine, you’re free to go Flat Earther — or, as Ron Unz says, solipsistic — and disbelieve nearly everything.”

    That would be those who champion the Fake News mantra. Again, why doesn’t Mr. Unz take to task those individuals who peddle this ware?

    • Replies: @Vidi
  360. Vidi says:
    @Corvinus

    I don’t religiously believe in things, as in being fanatically attached to a point of view regardless of the evidence. I let the evidence speak for itself, and I attach probabilities to things, giving zero percent to an impossibility and a hundred percent to a certainty. Now I don’t always assign numerical probabilities, but my views on issues are rarely binary, 0% or 100%.

    On the question of whether the US government knew about the novel coronavirus before the Chinese government, I would say the probability is 70% to 80%, based on

    (1) the closing of Fort Detrick in mid-2019;

    (2) the nursing home sicknesses not long afterwards and not far from the Fort;

    (3) the lung infections (with Covid-19-like symptoms) happening about the same time that were ridiculously blamed on “vaping”;

    (4) the many sick international competitors in the Military Games, weeks or months before the first civilian Chinese case;

    (5) the fact that one of the first Covid-19 clusters happened where the US athletes were staying;

    (6) the NCMI report supposedly distributed widely throughout the US government in November, 2019, months before the first Chinese case;

    (7) the headquartering of the NCMI at Fort Detrick, ideally positioned to learn about the dirty doings at the Fort;

    (8) the fact that ABC News assigned two of their toughest and their most experienced reporters to a very brief article about the NCMI document; and

    (9) the Covid-19 cases in Iran, nearly simultaneous with the early ones in Wuhan.

    Any one of these points could be contested (and have been, strenuously); taken together they convince me (70-80%, as I said) that the US was responsible for the pandemic.

  361. @Corvinus

    Linking to the Daily Mail. What a moron.

    You must be a true believer in the propaganda pushed by the #LyingMSM.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  362. An alternative, and much more measured, view on the nonsense about Corona Virus:

    • Thanks: canspeccy
  363. Corvinus says:
    @Peripatetic Commenter

    The fact of the matter is that the physician you listed is a quack. The contents of the source is what matters, not the source.

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