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The following graph shows the percentages of respondents, with the 13% answering “don’t know” excluded, who express a favorable opinion of the people who trespassed into and vandalized the Capitol Building on January 6:

Overall, for each person with a favorable opinion, six respondents express a negative one. Not as widely despised as 9/11 obviously, but a very unpopular event nonetheless.

Something that has been a recurring theme here is how supportive younger Americans are of political violence. The riots over the summer of 2020 made that perennial observation trenchant. Here it is manifesting once more. Cross tabs aren’t publicly available, but white men without degrees and Republicans, the other two relatively highly supportive groups, do not skew young. This makes the high aged 18-29 figure the more remarkable.

 
• Category: Culture/Society, History, Ideology • Tags: Politics, Polling, Violence 
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  1. Boomer holocaust soon.

    • Agree: JohnPlywood
    • Disagree: Corvinus
  2. Do I view the people who stormed the Capitol Building favorably? Not really. But what they did was fantastic. The Qanon Shaman is the coolest dude in the world. As Bowie said, “We can be heroes, just for one day…”

  3. Gee, I’m an old White dude with several degrees, and I thought it was a hoot.

    The blowhard Congress critters have referred to the Capitol as the Temple of Democracy since at least back in the 1990s … we can look at 6 January as a modern day replay of Jesus overturning the moneylenders’ tables in the Temple. Crucifixions of the rabble to follow.

    • Agree: unit472, Adam Smith
    • Replies: @nokangaroos
    @The Alarmist

    Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands,
    hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

    - H.L. Mencken :D

  4. @The Alarmist
    Gee, I’m an old White dude with several degrees, and I thought it was a hoot.

    The blowhard Congress critters have referred to the Capitol as the Temple of Democracy since at least back in the 1990s ... we can look at 6 January as a modern day replay of Jesus overturning the moneylenders’ tables in the Temple. Crucifixions of the rabble to follow.

    Replies: @nokangaroos

    Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands,
    hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

    – H.L. Mencken 😀

  5. The media-driven public discussion of violence in this context is whacked.

    Violence is a fact of life. We don’t want it, but even more than that, we refuse to be a people incapable of it.

    We want peace and dignity under the law. We demand our traditional rights.

    The media call our attitude violent, so screw them.

    If our rulers do not love us and will not compromise with us, then they shall have to fear us. The fourth alternative would be abject submission by us. The fourth is an alternative we must never proffer.

    Don’t make the white kids angry.

  6. The events at the Capitol were monumentally stupid. If a person on the right doesn’t realize that any hint of civil disobedience from our camp will be immediately framed as a threat to democracy and public safety, you should drop out of political activity altogether. It’s aggravating and obviously unfair, but that is terrain of the battlefield at this point.

    Another thing to remember is that although Trump’s instincts on a fair number of issues were good, he had no plan whatsoever. Too many Trump fans never realized this, and obviously the dimmer ones took his speech on Jan 6th as an indication they could act like BLM/antifa and Trump would shield them from the consequences.

    • Agree: dfordoom
    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @Arclight


    If a person on the right doesn’t realize that any hint of civil disobedience from our camp will be immediately framed as a threat to democracy and public safety, you should drop out of political activity altogether.
     
    Any hint?

    Does political activity even exist without the hint? What do you think the Second Amendment is for, if not to give the hint?

    A middle ground exists between civil disobedience and abject surrender. On that hallowed ground, the occasion for violence is remote but always ambiguous, that our rulers not presume too much. Stiffen your spine and stand that ground, sir!

    Your hardy ancestors will approve if you do.

    , @The Alarmist
    @Arclight


    The events at the Capitol were monumentally stupid. If a person on the right doesn’t realize that any hint of civil disobedience from our camp will be immediately framed as a threat to democracy and public safety, you should drop out of political activity altogether. It’s aggravating and obviously unfair, but that is terrain of the battlefield at this point.
     
    Go ahead, live your life on your knees.
    , @V. K. Ovelund
    @Arclight

    I reacted too quickly.


    It’s aggravating and obviously unfair, but that is terrain of the battlefield at this point.
     
    If you are saying that there will be another day to fight, then that is not abject surrender, is it? It is choosing the time and place.

    I differ from you on the benefit of the Capitol Riot, though. I suspect that the Riot was something that had to happen—not a good thing in itself, perhaps, but a thing to give our rulers pause.

    Such events are fated.

    On January 6, 2121, may a grateful nation lay its wreaths on the honored Rioter's graves.

    The Riot will have adverse consequences for you and me meanwhile, of course, but I firmly believe that the lack of a Riot would have had worse adverse consequences.

    The Riot has occurred. It will not recur. It is history, now. I just feel sorry for the poor saps that got suckered into joining it. Those are good patriots, most of them. 'Tis a shame.

    Replies: @Arclight, @Almost Missouri, @The Alarmist

    , @Almost Missouri
    @Arclight


    any hint of civil disobedience from our camp will be immediately framed as a threat to democracy and public safety
     
    That's true, but guess who gets to frame what is and is not "civil disobedience"? Answer: the same people who will be immediately framing you as a threat. They control both the input and the output. They will never permit you victory under their ever-shifting "rules". To play by their rules is to surrender preemptively. The "terrain of the battlefield" now is that if you ever start winning, there will immediately be a new rule preventing it ... as long as you play by the rules.

    Like everything else in the Trump program, the Capitol Protest (I decline to grant the enemy framing of "riot") was all bark and no bite, all stomping loudly and carrying a tiny twig, all striking at a king without killing him. Like everything else Trump did , it just pointed out the Establishment's weaknesses to them without actually exploiting the openings, so now the Establishment is reinforcing all their exposed vulnerabilities so that no one more capable can ever break through.
    , @John Regan
    @Arclight

    "Democracy and public safety" are a big part of the problem. As you yourself acknowledge, they don't really exist anymore, but most people either don't realize, or act as if they don't anyway.

    The events in Washington were certainly ineffective in the short term. Yet they served two very vital purposes.

    First, they showed (to people on both sides) that the American people has not yet been completely cowed. This was an immense morale boost to our side, and it shook up a lot of the bad guys.

    Second, they exposed yet more of the system's real tyranny to the fence sitters. Seeing Washington occupied by more troops than Berlin in 1946, and Comrade General Secretary Biden holding his the Camel's inauguration speech in front of empty seats and heavily armed SWAT teams may make some feel safe and happy, but it looks really bad in the eyes of many others.

    Now as for Trump's shameful conduct in this connection... on that point I make no excuses.

  7. Young people are usually the ones spoiling for action. They just want to do something, or at least see something done, to make them feel alive. It does not mean that they approve of the cause or even understand the cause; indeed, there may not even be much of cause. There will always be people, particularly young people, who just want to be where the action is.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Intelligent Dasein

    That's all true and I agree ...

    ... but to AE's observation of "how supportive younger Americans are of political violence" it must be added that it is increasingly hard to blame them. The increasingly ossified, increasingly bankrupt, increasingly narrow, increasingly brittle, increasingly gerontocratic and increasingly bitter American Establishment has increasingly nothing to offer them, irrespective of their position on the political "issues". For the productive right, it offers only the barest subsistence in return for meek obedience. For the parasitical left, it offers only cutthroat competition against more entrenched parasites for a steadily shrinking pie.

    Why shouldn't they elect just to burn it all down? It's not like they've got anything to lose.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @dfordoom

  8. @Arclight
    The events at the Capitol were monumentally stupid. If a person on the right doesn't realize that any hint of civil disobedience from our camp will be immediately framed as a threat to democracy and public safety, you should drop out of political activity altogether. It's aggravating and obviously unfair, but that is terrain of the battlefield at this point.

    Another thing to remember is that although Trump's instincts on a fair number of issues were good, he had no plan whatsoever. Too many Trump fans never realized this, and obviously the dimmer ones took his speech on Jan 6th as an indication they could act like BLM/antifa and Trump would shield them from the consequences.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @The Alarmist, @V. K. Ovelund, @Almost Missouri, @John Regan

    If a person on the right doesn’t realize that any hint of civil disobedience from our camp will be immediately framed as a threat to democracy and public safety, you should drop out of political activity altogether.

    Any hint?

    Does political activity even exist without the hint? What do you think the Second Amendment is for, if not to give the hint?

    A middle ground exists between civil disobedience and abject surrender. On that hallowed ground, the occasion for violence is remote but always ambiguous, that our rulers not presume too much. Stiffen your spine and stand that ground, sir!

    Your hardy ancestors will approve if you do.

  9. @Arclight
    The events at the Capitol were monumentally stupid. If a person on the right doesn't realize that any hint of civil disobedience from our camp will be immediately framed as a threat to democracy and public safety, you should drop out of political activity altogether. It's aggravating and obviously unfair, but that is terrain of the battlefield at this point.

    Another thing to remember is that although Trump's instincts on a fair number of issues were good, he had no plan whatsoever. Too many Trump fans never realized this, and obviously the dimmer ones took his speech on Jan 6th as an indication they could act like BLM/antifa and Trump would shield them from the consequences.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @The Alarmist, @V. K. Ovelund, @Almost Missouri, @John Regan

    The events at the Capitol were monumentally stupid. If a person on the right doesn’t realize that any hint of civil disobedience from our camp will be immediately framed as a threat to democracy and public safety, you should drop out of political activity altogether. It’s aggravating and obviously unfair, but that is terrain of the battlefield at this point.

    Go ahead, live your life on your knees.

    • Agree: V. K. Ovelund, Catdog
  10. @Arclight
    The events at the Capitol were monumentally stupid. If a person on the right doesn't realize that any hint of civil disobedience from our camp will be immediately framed as a threat to democracy and public safety, you should drop out of political activity altogether. It's aggravating and obviously unfair, but that is terrain of the battlefield at this point.

    Another thing to remember is that although Trump's instincts on a fair number of issues were good, he had no plan whatsoever. Too many Trump fans never realized this, and obviously the dimmer ones took his speech on Jan 6th as an indication they could act like BLM/antifa and Trump would shield them from the consequences.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @The Alarmist, @V. K. Ovelund, @Almost Missouri, @John Regan

    I reacted too quickly.

    It’s aggravating and obviously unfair, but that is terrain of the battlefield at this point.

    If you are saying that there will be another day to fight, then that is not abject surrender, is it? It is choosing the time and place.

    I differ from you on the benefit of the Capitol Riot, though. I suspect that the Riot was something that had to happen—not a good thing in itself, perhaps, but a thing to give our rulers pause.

    Such events are fated.

    On January 6, 2121, may a grateful nation lay its wreaths on the honored Rioter’s graves.

    The Riot will have adverse consequences for you and me meanwhile, of course, but I firmly believe that the lack of a Riot would have had worse adverse consequences.

    The Riot has occurred. It will not recur. It is history, now. I just feel sorry for the poor saps that got suckered into joining it. Those are good patriots, most of them. ‘Tis a shame.

    • Replies: @Arclight
    @V. K. Ovelund

    What I am saying is that the right cannot employ the same tactics the left does to get its will - the left unleashed mobs of people to disrupt/destroy businesses and assaulted untold numbers of citizens and law enforcement, feckless politicians watched it happen and our media spun it as a mostly peaceful and righteous 'uprising'.

    Large gatherings/protests are not off the table for us, but everyone has to be ultra-aware of how words and actions at these events will be portrayed. If the people on January 6th had used their numbers to surround the Capitol without breaching any barriers it would have been a powerful image without the subsequent breaking of windows, scuffles with Capitol cops, etc. You have to assume anything you do will be filmed and widely broadcast and negatively framed - look at what they did to Nick Sandman and he's just a kid.

    , @Almost Missouri
    @V. K. Ovelund

    Hol' up there, Chief. Was it really a "Riot"? After the mainstream media spent all year calling genuine riots (stores looted, monuments destroyed, buildings torched, authorities and innocent bystanders alike injured and killed) "protests" and "mostly peaceful protests" at that, are we now going to accept the framing of "riot" for an actual Protest where ... a podium was moved, while it was the authorities who injured and killed protesters?

    Except for the probable agent provocateurs who broke the windows through which Ashli Babbit was assassinated, there wasn't even any property damage. The Congressworms, high on their own supply of paranoia, fled the House in a state of self-induced panic, leaving the House floor to a few dazed protesters wandering as harmlessly as ill-dressed tourists. It was the Protesters' harmlessness itself that was the tremendous rebuke to the hypocritical pretensions of the corrupt legislature: so great was their fear of so little. All the pompous congressional speechifiers presuming to represent the nation literally cowered on the floor and fled in abject terror before a few ragged men with battered American flags.

    Can they ever recover?

    On January 6, 2121, may a grateful nation lay its wreaths on the honored Protester’s graves.

    Amen, brother.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

    , @The Alarmist
    @V. K. Ovelund

    The fact that there are still thousands of troops, whether actually armed or not, shows they are scared shitless. They probably think Trump is planning to cross the Potomac with his MAGA army any day now.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Audacious Epigone

  11. @Intelligent Dasein
    Young people are usually the ones spoiling for action. They just want to do something, or at least see something done, to make them feel alive. It does not mean that they approve of the cause or even understand the cause; indeed, there may not even be much of cause. There will always be people, particularly young people, who just want to be where the action is.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    That’s all true and I agree …

    … but to AE’s observation of “how supportive younger Americans are of political violence” it must be added that it is increasingly hard to blame them. The increasingly ossified, increasingly bankrupt, increasingly narrow, increasingly brittle, increasingly gerontocratic and increasingly bitter American Establishment has increasingly nothing to offer them, irrespective of their position on the political “issues”. For the productive right, it offers only the barest subsistence in return for meek obedience. For the parasitical left, it offers only cutthroat competition against more entrenched parasites for a steadily shrinking pie.

    Why shouldn’t they elect just to burn it all down? It’s not like they’ve got anything to lose.

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    @Almost Missouri

    I agree that the situation is terrible. Back when the "Defund the Police" meme was gaining traction, I made the comment that we ought to just defund everything, and that was the intent behind my comment. Let's defund the police, defund the universities, defund the bureaucracy, and especially defund Wall Street and the tech companies.

    If people really want to put an end to Globohomo Clown World, they can do it. The people, right now, are holding a power in their hands that, if they choose to employ it, will absolutely work to bring down the oligarchs and the government.

    All they have to do is stop spending money. Stop taking loans, stop sending children to universities, stop going to work, retire their debt or default on it, and especially stop shopping at Amazon and Walmart.

    This would cause enormous short term pain. Many people would lose everything and some would die, but I'm telling you within one week the US government would collapse and Clown World would be gone. The fact that people aren't willing to do this and aren't even talking about it tells me that they aren't really serious about changing the situation. Capitol protests are ineffective venting; it's demanding that somebody else change their behavior to solve your problem, and those somebodies have no intention of doing that unless you can hit them where it hurts. So cut off their money. Cut off the vig and churn from whence they derive their power. Defund Globohomo.

    Look at the situation in Texas right now. Here we have a vast agricultural and resource powerhouse that has more natural gas than Zeus' butthole, and they could not deliver electricity to millions of people for days. We have a fragile system, managed by incompetents, with all the design margin asset-scraped out of it. Unfortunately, the millions of people who were most harmed by this travesty still don't seem willing to up stakes and disengage from the system, and this is in Texas for crying out loud.

    As long as this continues we will have more and more incompetence, an ever shrinking capital base, and hordes of useless, dispirited human beings wandering around and looking for the next handout, even as the ongoing population collapse makes recovery a mathematical impossibility. But this is the world people seem to want, and Capitol riots will do nothing to prevent this, the real problem.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @A123, @Almost Missouri, @The Alarmist

    , @dfordoom
    @Almost Missouri


    Why shouldn’t they elect just to burn it all down? It’s not like they’ve got anything to lose.
     
    If they think that way they really are monumentally dumb. Things could be a whole lot worse. Things could be several orders of magnitude worse. Take a look at what happens to countries when the social order actually breaks down completely and they collapse into anarchy and civil war because people decided to "burn it all down."

    You really haven't got a clue just how bad things can actually get when idiots decide to "burn it all down."

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @John Regan

  12. @Arclight
    The events at the Capitol were monumentally stupid. If a person on the right doesn't realize that any hint of civil disobedience from our camp will be immediately framed as a threat to democracy and public safety, you should drop out of political activity altogether. It's aggravating and obviously unfair, but that is terrain of the battlefield at this point.

    Another thing to remember is that although Trump's instincts on a fair number of issues were good, he had no plan whatsoever. Too many Trump fans never realized this, and obviously the dimmer ones took his speech on Jan 6th as an indication they could act like BLM/antifa and Trump would shield them from the consequences.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @The Alarmist, @V. K. Ovelund, @Almost Missouri, @John Regan

    any hint of civil disobedience from our camp will be immediately framed as a threat to democracy and public safety

    That’s true, but guess who gets to frame what is and is not “civil disobedience”? Answer: the same people who will be immediately framing you as a threat. They control both the input and the output. They will never permit you victory under their ever-shifting “rules”. To play by their rules is to surrender preemptively. The “terrain of the battlefield” now is that if you ever start winning, there will immediately be a new rule preventing it … as long as you play by the rules.

    Like everything else in the Trump program, the Capitol Protest (I decline to grant the enemy framing of “riot”) was all bark and no bite, all stomping loudly and carrying a tiny twig, all striking at a king without killing him. Like everything else Trump did , it just pointed out the Establishment’s weaknesses to them without actually exploiting the openings, so now the Establishment is reinforcing all their exposed vulnerabilities so that no one more capable can ever break through.

  13. @Almost Missouri
    @Intelligent Dasein

    That's all true and I agree ...

    ... but to AE's observation of "how supportive younger Americans are of political violence" it must be added that it is increasingly hard to blame them. The increasingly ossified, increasingly bankrupt, increasingly narrow, increasingly brittle, increasingly gerontocratic and increasingly bitter American Establishment has increasingly nothing to offer them, irrespective of their position on the political "issues". For the productive right, it offers only the barest subsistence in return for meek obedience. For the parasitical left, it offers only cutthroat competition against more entrenched parasites for a steadily shrinking pie.

    Why shouldn't they elect just to burn it all down? It's not like they've got anything to lose.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @dfordoom

    I agree that the situation is terrible. Back when the “Defund the Police” meme was gaining traction, I made the comment that we ought to just defund everything, and that was the intent behind my comment. Let’s defund the police, defund the universities, defund the bureaucracy, and especially defund Wall Street and the tech companies.

    If people really want to put an end to Globohomo Clown World, they can do it. The people, right now, are holding a power in their hands that, if they choose to employ it, will absolutely work to bring down the oligarchs and the government.

    All they have to do is stop spending money. Stop taking loans, stop sending children to universities, stop going to work, retire their debt or default on it, and especially stop shopping at Amazon and Walmart.

    This would cause enormous short term pain. Many people would lose everything and some would die, but I’m telling you within one week the US government would collapse and Clown World would be gone. The fact that people aren’t willing to do this and aren’t even talking about it tells me that they aren’t really serious about changing the situation. Capitol protests are ineffective venting; it’s demanding that somebody else change their behavior to solve your problem, and those somebodies have no intention of doing that unless you can hit them where it hurts. So cut off their money. Cut off the vig and churn from whence they derive their power. Defund Globohomo.

    Look at the situation in Texas right now. Here we have a vast agricultural and resource powerhouse that has more natural gas than Zeus’ butthole, and they could not deliver electricity to millions of people for days. We have a fragile system, managed by incompetents, with all the design margin asset-scraped out of it. Unfortunately, the millions of people who were most harmed by this travesty still don’t seem willing to up stakes and disengage from the system, and this is in Texas for crying out loud.

    As long as this continues we will have more and more incompetence, an ever shrinking capital base, and hordes of useless, dispirited human beings wandering around and looking for the next handout, even as the ongoing population collapse makes recovery a mathematical impossibility. But this is the world people seem to want, and Capitol riots will do nothing to prevent this, the real problem.

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Disasters within disasters now unfolding in Texas.

    No electricity, no water, no cell service, no oil and gas production. Certain parts of Texas are effectively Third World hellholes right now. Each time something like this happens, the fallout gets worse and worse because we never address the underlying problems. To make matters worse, the governor of Texas has now banned sales of natural gas to power producers outside the state. This is causing chaos in northern Mexico and has the potential to actually blossom into an international incident.

    This is what the collapse and breakup of the United States means. It is not a peaceful constitutional process but a Ukrainian-Russian type calamity. Indeed, the parallel between the current situation and the post-Soviet "gas wars" are very intriguing. Is Texas our Ukraine?

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @unit472

    , @A123
    @Intelligent Dasein


    Look at the situation in Texas right now. Here we have a vast agricultural and resource powerhouse that has more natural gas than Zeus’ butthole, and they could not deliver electricity to millions of people for days. We have a fragile system, managed by incompetents, with all the design margin asset-scraped out of it. Unfortunately, the millions of people who were most harmed by this travesty still don’t seem willing to up stakes and disengage from the system, and this is in Texas for crying out loud.
     
    It is the folly of "renewable" energy. Frozen wind turbines and snow covered solar panels generate ZERO electricity at the most critical moments. (1)

    ... the major culprit may not be due to the record electricity demand, but rather, frozen wind turbines. While it’s true that Texans are using record electricity to keep warm during record cold temperatures, half of the state’s wind turbines are out of service.

    If you look at most of the mainstream news about the Texas blackouts, you won’t find much at all about frozen wind turbines. But, according to the Brandon Mulder Austin (Texas) American Statesmen, Frozen wind turbines hamper Texas power output; grid operator says, “Nearly half of Texas’ installed wind power generation capacity has been offline because of frozen wind turbines in West Texas, according to Texas grid operators.”

     

    Pursuing endangered species eliminating wind turbines is bad for the environment and bad for people. Why do people & governments continue to dump money into this failed technology? Hint: Which Elites benefit most?

    ... what happens as the state adds even more wind and solar power over the next decade as the NEW GREEN ENERGY policy put forth by the Biden Presidency goes FULL STEAM AHEAD?

    The world has no idea what a DISASTER it will face as it ramps up GREEN ENERGY
     
    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.silverdoctors.com/headlines/world-news/texas-suffers-major-electric-grid-blackouts-you-can-blame-frozen-wind-turbines-for-that-one/

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    , @Almost Missouri
    @Intelligent Dasein

    I think almost everyone who can and will disengage from the system has already done or is doing it, to the extent they can. (Both of us, for example, are evidently still paying for internet access.) And while I think that disengagement has purpose morally, I don't think it will work materially, even if the disengagers were ten or a hundred or a thousand times as numerous.

    The problem is that where there is a fiat currency and a governing class to spend it, the Establishment simply arrogates money to its own purposes whether or not you agree to it. Do you decline to participate in Globohomo's latest gambit? That's fine, the Fed will simply dilute out a few trillion more dollars of global wealth and hand it to the legislature to spend on your behalf as if you had been full throatedly participating all along. No biggie. They've had that angle covered for a long time. They don't really need anyone else's participation or even consent.


    Let’s defund the police, defund the universities, defund the bureaucracy, and especially defund Wall Street and the tech companies.
     
    Yeah, I agree, but if you and I defund, they've already thought of that, and they still have the means and the motive to make up whatever shortfall we inflict.

    I really think that currency collapse is the threshold matter. Prior to it, Globohomo has infinite material power. After it, anything is possible.

    How long can they go on just printing and spending fake money? I dunno. I've been bracing for impact for years, but it hasn't come yet and I'm getting complacent. The ancient Romans started hollowing out their currency in earnest a couple of centuries before barbarians finally overran the Forum, so maybe I'm way too soon. On the other hand, the Crisis of the Third Century was almost simultaneous to currency debasement. So ... maybe we'll see.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    , @The Alarmist
    @Intelligent Dasein

    In the old days, real Texans wouldn’t sit around demanding hearings by their “leaders” into what went wrong, especially with it still continuing. They’d have already lynched the ERCOT board, inter alia.

  14. @V. K. Ovelund
    @Arclight

    I reacted too quickly.


    It’s aggravating and obviously unfair, but that is terrain of the battlefield at this point.
     
    If you are saying that there will be another day to fight, then that is not abject surrender, is it? It is choosing the time and place.

    I differ from you on the benefit of the Capitol Riot, though. I suspect that the Riot was something that had to happen—not a good thing in itself, perhaps, but a thing to give our rulers pause.

    Such events are fated.

    On January 6, 2121, may a grateful nation lay its wreaths on the honored Rioter's graves.

    The Riot will have adverse consequences for you and me meanwhile, of course, but I firmly believe that the lack of a Riot would have had worse adverse consequences.

    The Riot has occurred. It will not recur. It is history, now. I just feel sorry for the poor saps that got suckered into joining it. Those are good patriots, most of them. 'Tis a shame.

    Replies: @Arclight, @Almost Missouri, @The Alarmist

    What I am saying is that the right cannot employ the same tactics the left does to get its will – the left unleashed mobs of people to disrupt/destroy businesses and assaulted untold numbers of citizens and law enforcement, feckless politicians watched it happen and our media spun it as a mostly peaceful and righteous ‘uprising’.

    Large gatherings/protests are not off the table for us, but everyone has to be ultra-aware of how words and actions at these events will be portrayed. If the people on January 6th had used their numbers to surround the Capitol without breaching any barriers it would have been a powerful image without the subsequent breaking of windows, scuffles with Capitol cops, etc. You have to assume anything you do will be filmed and widely broadcast and negatively framed – look at what they did to Nick Sandman and he’s just a kid.

  15. @V. K. Ovelund
    @Arclight

    I reacted too quickly.


    It’s aggravating and obviously unfair, but that is terrain of the battlefield at this point.
     
    If you are saying that there will be another day to fight, then that is not abject surrender, is it? It is choosing the time and place.

    I differ from you on the benefit of the Capitol Riot, though. I suspect that the Riot was something that had to happen—not a good thing in itself, perhaps, but a thing to give our rulers pause.

    Such events are fated.

    On January 6, 2121, may a grateful nation lay its wreaths on the honored Rioter's graves.

    The Riot will have adverse consequences for you and me meanwhile, of course, but I firmly believe that the lack of a Riot would have had worse adverse consequences.

    The Riot has occurred. It will not recur. It is history, now. I just feel sorry for the poor saps that got suckered into joining it. Those are good patriots, most of them. 'Tis a shame.

    Replies: @Arclight, @Almost Missouri, @The Alarmist

    Hol’ up there, Chief. Was it really a “Riot”? After the mainstream media spent all year calling genuine riots (stores looted, monuments destroyed, buildings torched, authorities and innocent bystanders alike injured and killed) “protests” and “mostly peaceful protests” at that, are we now going to accept the framing of “riot” for an actual Protest where … a podium was moved, while it was the authorities who injured and killed protesters?

    Except for the probable agent provocateurs who broke the windows through which Ashli Babbit was assassinated, there wasn’t even any property damage. The Congressworms, high on their own supply of paranoia, fled the House in a state of self-induced panic, leaving the House floor to a few dazed protesters wandering as harmlessly as ill-dressed tourists. It was the Protesters’ harmlessness itself that was the tremendous rebuke to the hypocritical pretensions of the corrupt legislature: so great was their fear of so little. All the pompous congressional speechifiers presuming to represent the nation literally cowered on the floor and fled in abject terror before a few ragged men with battered American flags.

    Can they ever recover?

    On January 6, 2121, may a grateful nation lay its wreaths on the honored Protester’s graves.

    Amen, brother.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @Almost Missouri


    Hol’ up there, Chief. Was it really a “Riot”?
     
    I do not know.

    I actually know some of the men of Charlottesville, three years earlier. I had had the date of the Charlottesville rally marked on my calendar in advance, so though I cowardly chose not to attend, I had a reasonably clear idea of what was transpiring in real time—and not merely via the corrupt ministrations of the Lügenpresse.

    January 6, 2021, was different. I had and have no special information. I assume that most of the information I do have consists of distortions and lies. If you say that the event was no riot, I believe you.

  16. I wish there had been a ‘riot’ at the Capitol last month. There wasn’t. A large group of citizens forced their way into THEIR Capitol. Go to the US Capitol website and it informs you the Capitol is open to the public. No reservation needed. Access to the Senate and House is restricted and requires a reservation but not the public areas of the Capitol.

    We have a seriously deranged Speaker of the House with a cadre of hard left ((( Congress creatures))) intent upon turning the US into a Soviet style police state. Her party had just stolen a presidential election and was going to foist upon the nation a senile puppet as president. Those demonstrators should have chased Pelosi and her gang right out of the Capitol

    • Agree: Almost Missouri
    • Disagree: Corvinus
  17. @Almost Missouri
    @Intelligent Dasein

    That's all true and I agree ...

    ... but to AE's observation of "how supportive younger Americans are of political violence" it must be added that it is increasingly hard to blame them. The increasingly ossified, increasingly bankrupt, increasingly narrow, increasingly brittle, increasingly gerontocratic and increasingly bitter American Establishment has increasingly nothing to offer them, irrespective of their position on the political "issues". For the productive right, it offers only the barest subsistence in return for meek obedience. For the parasitical left, it offers only cutthroat competition against more entrenched parasites for a steadily shrinking pie.

    Why shouldn't they elect just to burn it all down? It's not like they've got anything to lose.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @dfordoom

    Why shouldn’t they elect just to burn it all down? It’s not like they’ve got anything to lose.

    If they think that way they really are monumentally dumb. Things could be a whole lot worse. Things could be several orders of magnitude worse. Take a look at what happens to countries when the social order actually breaks down completely and they collapse into anarchy and civil war because people decided to “burn it all down.”

    You really haven’t got a clue just how bad things can actually get when idiots decide to “burn it all down.”

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @dfordoom


    Things could be several orders of magnitude worse. Take a look at what happens to countries when the social order actually breaks down completely and they collapse into anarchy and civil war because people decided to “burn it all down.”
     
    I don't disagree, but I'm no longer so young. Except for a few deviants, young people do not reckon up their futures like actuaries in green eye shades. They dream of glory, no mater how perverted their notion of it is. The Establishment offers them only degrading subjection. Can the Fed print enough fake money to fix this mismatch?
    , @John Regan
    @dfordoom

    Or the people in question have a clue, but evaluate things differently than you.

    Looking to history for examples, Germany in 1945 is probably the closest thing we have in living memory to a country that really was all burned down--large parts of it literally so, thanks to the US Air Force and Red Army. Millions of people were dead, tens of millions homeless and starving, all flailing about without leaders. The only reason they weren't exterminated altogether through the Morgenthau Plan was that Truman decided he needed Germans as cannon fodder if World War III came about.

    Yet... once the US Army occupation forces stopped keeping germans in concentration camps and blowing up their remaining factories out of spite, and let them rebuild the country, they did. Twenty years later, it was awash in prosperity.

    And now, fifty years of prosperity later, it's a multiracial cesspool that's almost as bad (in some ways actually worse) than America. And just like America, it only keeps getting worse.

    A society can recover from extreme material disasters, as long as its people are still builders and doers. It cannot, however, recover if the people itself is destroyed or debased.

    Some ideologists on the right think it's better if the burning down is done while there is still a core of real Americans around who can rebuild the country afterward. Most of them reason that if not, the burning will just come anyway a little later, once the present system runs out of gibz. To a lot of them, the events of 1943, 1968, 1992, and 2020 validate that prognosis.

    My own position: Damn the politicians who put us in the position where these are serious prospects for our future that we have to consider.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @dfordoom

  18. @Intelligent Dasein
    @Almost Missouri

    I agree that the situation is terrible. Back when the "Defund the Police" meme was gaining traction, I made the comment that we ought to just defund everything, and that was the intent behind my comment. Let's defund the police, defund the universities, defund the bureaucracy, and especially defund Wall Street and the tech companies.

    If people really want to put an end to Globohomo Clown World, they can do it. The people, right now, are holding a power in their hands that, if they choose to employ it, will absolutely work to bring down the oligarchs and the government.

    All they have to do is stop spending money. Stop taking loans, stop sending children to universities, stop going to work, retire their debt or default on it, and especially stop shopping at Amazon and Walmart.

    This would cause enormous short term pain. Many people would lose everything and some would die, but I'm telling you within one week the US government would collapse and Clown World would be gone. The fact that people aren't willing to do this and aren't even talking about it tells me that they aren't really serious about changing the situation. Capitol protests are ineffective venting; it's demanding that somebody else change their behavior to solve your problem, and those somebodies have no intention of doing that unless you can hit them where it hurts. So cut off their money. Cut off the vig and churn from whence they derive their power. Defund Globohomo.

    Look at the situation in Texas right now. Here we have a vast agricultural and resource powerhouse that has more natural gas than Zeus' butthole, and they could not deliver electricity to millions of people for days. We have a fragile system, managed by incompetents, with all the design margin asset-scraped out of it. Unfortunately, the millions of people who were most harmed by this travesty still don't seem willing to up stakes and disengage from the system, and this is in Texas for crying out loud.

    As long as this continues we will have more and more incompetence, an ever shrinking capital base, and hordes of useless, dispirited human beings wandering around and looking for the next handout, even as the ongoing population collapse makes recovery a mathematical impossibility. But this is the world people seem to want, and Capitol riots will do nothing to prevent this, the real problem.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @A123, @Almost Missouri, @The Alarmist

    Disasters within disasters now unfolding in Texas.

    No electricity, no water, no cell service, no oil and gas production. Certain parts of Texas are effectively Third World hellholes right now. Each time something like this happens, the fallout gets worse and worse because we never address the underlying problems. To make matters worse, the governor of Texas has now banned sales of natural gas to power producers outside the state. This is causing chaos in northern Mexico and has the potential to actually blossom into an international incident.

    This is what the collapse and breakup of the United States means. It is not a peaceful constitutional process but a Ukrainian-Russian type calamity. Indeed, the parallel between the current situation and the post-Soviet “gas wars” are very intriguing. Is Texas our Ukraine?

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Intelligent Dasein


    Is Texas our Ukraine?
     
    Do they have super-hot, blonde drug-addicted STD-infected whores?
    , @unit472
    @Intelligent Dasein

    What's taking place in Texas is a profound milestone. There will be no 'Build Back Better'! It will take all our effort to keep things from falling apart. Gail Tverberg's blog Our Finite World, has been predicting an imminent collapse of the global economy as it has become so complex any disruption to any part of it causes a cascade of secondary effects. The erudite financial historian Jeff Snider of Alhambra Partners has pointed out how an imbalance in daily interbank settlements can create chaos in, first, the repo market and then the collapse of G-SIFI and James Kunstler, whose 'World Made by Hand' thssis I used to scoff at is coming true.

    If we are to avoid an economic collapse we need to stop tilting at climate change 'Windmills' and power our electric grid with 'sustainable, dispatchable generating capacity not 'renewable, unreliable' power generation. If that means burning coal so be it.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @The Alarmist

  19. The young hotheads and the White Men Without College Degrees so enamoured of political violence are quite similar to the hothead boneheads in South Carolina and Massachusetts that dragged this country into a bloody civil war that killed 6 or 7 hundred thousand men and maimed and wounded a million or more and I say screw off you mangy mutts of insensate volatility and viciousness and Seward had the solution back then and it was to re-unify the nation by thrashing the Spaniards and their Mestizo followers once more in Mexico and the idiots clomping through the Capitol had their chance for decent and honorable political participation and action by voting for this writer for president in 2020 but they did not and now we sit sipping beer and ale and porter waiting patiently for the great disillusionment with globalizer geezer Biden to turn to the inevitable dissolution of this rotting and rancid empire made foul by the evil and treasonous fiends in the JEW/WASP Ruling Class.

    Pretentiousness Forever For My Country!

    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
    @Charles Pewitt

    Imagine writing a run-on sentence in the year 2021. Think of the complete lack of self-awareness, shame, and intelligence that it implies. Now realize that people like this are receiving entitlements and can broadcast their worthless opinions to the world 24/7.

  20. @Arclight
    The events at the Capitol were monumentally stupid. If a person on the right doesn't realize that any hint of civil disobedience from our camp will be immediately framed as a threat to democracy and public safety, you should drop out of political activity altogether. It's aggravating and obviously unfair, but that is terrain of the battlefield at this point.

    Another thing to remember is that although Trump's instincts on a fair number of issues were good, he had no plan whatsoever. Too many Trump fans never realized this, and obviously the dimmer ones took his speech on Jan 6th as an indication they could act like BLM/antifa and Trump would shield them from the consequences.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @The Alarmist, @V. K. Ovelund, @Almost Missouri, @John Regan

    “Democracy and public safety” are a big part of the problem. As you yourself acknowledge, they don’t really exist anymore, but most people either don’t realize, or act as if they don’t anyway.

    The events in Washington were certainly ineffective in the short term. Yet they served two very vital purposes.

    First, they showed (to people on both sides) that the American people has not yet been completely cowed. This was an immense morale boost to our side, and it shook up a lot of the bad guys.

    Second, they exposed yet more of the system’s real tyranny to the fence sitters. Seeing Washington occupied by more troops than Berlin in 1946, and Comrade General Secretary Biden holding his the Camel’s inauguration speech in front of empty seats and heavily armed SWAT teams may make some feel safe and happy, but it looks really bad in the eyes of many others.

    Now as for Trump’s shameful conduct in this connection… on that point I make no excuses.

    • Agree: V. K. Ovelund
  21. @Intelligent Dasein
    @Almost Missouri

    I agree that the situation is terrible. Back when the "Defund the Police" meme was gaining traction, I made the comment that we ought to just defund everything, and that was the intent behind my comment. Let's defund the police, defund the universities, defund the bureaucracy, and especially defund Wall Street and the tech companies.

    If people really want to put an end to Globohomo Clown World, they can do it. The people, right now, are holding a power in their hands that, if they choose to employ it, will absolutely work to bring down the oligarchs and the government.

    All they have to do is stop spending money. Stop taking loans, stop sending children to universities, stop going to work, retire their debt or default on it, and especially stop shopping at Amazon and Walmart.

    This would cause enormous short term pain. Many people would lose everything and some would die, but I'm telling you within one week the US government would collapse and Clown World would be gone. The fact that people aren't willing to do this and aren't even talking about it tells me that they aren't really serious about changing the situation. Capitol protests are ineffective venting; it's demanding that somebody else change their behavior to solve your problem, and those somebodies have no intention of doing that unless you can hit them where it hurts. So cut off their money. Cut off the vig and churn from whence they derive their power. Defund Globohomo.

    Look at the situation in Texas right now. Here we have a vast agricultural and resource powerhouse that has more natural gas than Zeus' butthole, and they could not deliver electricity to millions of people for days. We have a fragile system, managed by incompetents, with all the design margin asset-scraped out of it. Unfortunately, the millions of people who were most harmed by this travesty still don't seem willing to up stakes and disengage from the system, and this is in Texas for crying out loud.

    As long as this continues we will have more and more incompetence, an ever shrinking capital base, and hordes of useless, dispirited human beings wandering around and looking for the next handout, even as the ongoing population collapse makes recovery a mathematical impossibility. But this is the world people seem to want, and Capitol riots will do nothing to prevent this, the real problem.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @A123, @Almost Missouri, @The Alarmist

    Look at the situation in Texas right now. Here we have a vast agricultural and resource powerhouse that has more natural gas than Zeus’ butthole, and they could not deliver electricity to millions of people for days. We have a fragile system, managed by incompetents, with all the design margin asset-scraped out of it. Unfortunately, the millions of people who were most harmed by this travesty still don’t seem willing to up stakes and disengage from the system, and this is in Texas for crying out loud.

    It is the folly of “renewable” energy. Frozen wind turbines and snow covered solar panels generate ZERO electricity at the most critical moments. (1)

    … the major culprit may not be due to the record electricity demand, but rather, frozen wind turbines. While it’s true that Texans are using record electricity to keep warm during record cold temperatures, half of the state’s wind turbines are out of service.

    If you look at most of the mainstream news about the Texas blackouts, you won’t find much at all about frozen wind turbines. But, according to the Brandon Mulder Austin (Texas) American Statesmen, Frozen wind turbines hamper Texas power output; grid operator says, “Nearly half of Texas’ installed wind power generation capacity has been offline because of frozen wind turbines in West Texas, according to Texas grid operators.”

    Pursuing endangered species eliminating wind turbines is bad for the environment and bad for people. Why do people & governments continue to dump money into this failed technology? Hint: Which Elites benefit most?

    … what happens as the state adds even more wind and solar power over the next decade as the NEW GREEN ENERGY policy put forth by the Biden Presidency goes FULL STEAM AHEAD?

    The world has no idea what a DISASTER it will face as it ramps up GREEN ENERGY

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.silverdoctors.com/headlines/world-news/texas-suffers-major-electric-grid-blackouts-you-can-blame-frozen-wind-turbines-for-that-one/

    • Thanks: Almost Missouri
    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    @A123

    It's not just renewable energy, although that certainly isn't helping. Please read what I wrote or, better yet, read the article I linked to.

    1. Natural gas wellheads are frozen and not producing anything.
    2. Oil refiners are shut down. 40% of US production capacity is currently offline.
    3. The Texas governor has forbidden the sale of natural gas for power generation outside the state.
    4. A nuclear(!) power plant in west Texas is shuttered because the plant managers failed to winterize it.

    This is an across-the-board energy emergency. Numbers 3 and 4 are particularly alarming because they indicate, respectively, a growing rift between states and a complete crisis of competence.

    Here is another article about how the Texas energy crisis is going global:
    Texas Frozen Chaos Becomes Global Oil Market Nightmare as 40% of US Crude Production Offline

    Replies: @A123

  22. The young hotheads and White Men Without College Degrees need leadership connected to the historic American nation and all they get from the electronic propaganda apparatus is disgusting fat ass pill popper corporate propaganda whores such as this dead baby boomer whore that was Rush Limbaugh!

    RUSH LIMBAUGH IS NOW ROTTING AND BURNING IN THE HOTTEST PITS OF FIERY HELL!

    RUSH LIMBAUGH WAS AN EVIL BABY BOOMER TREASONITE!

    Tweets from 2015:

  23. Are there surveys on young people’s attitudes to violence from 60-70 years ago? Any changes?

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Chrisnonymous


    Are there surveys on young people’s attitudes to violence from 60-70 years ago? Any changes?
     
    That would be interesting to know.

    As @Intelligent Dasein said, "Young people are usually the ones spoiling for action. They just want to do something, or at least see something done, to make them feel alive. It does not mean that they approve of the cause or even understand the cause; indeed, there may not even be much of cause. There will always be people, particularly young people, who just want to be where the action is."

    If you look back at history, at various political, social and cultural revolutions, you'll probably find that the driving force was young people who were excited by the prospect of doing something, even if doing something amounted to little more than smashing things.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

  24. @Intelligent Dasein
    @Almost Missouri

    I agree that the situation is terrible. Back when the "Defund the Police" meme was gaining traction, I made the comment that we ought to just defund everything, and that was the intent behind my comment. Let's defund the police, defund the universities, defund the bureaucracy, and especially defund Wall Street and the tech companies.

    If people really want to put an end to Globohomo Clown World, they can do it. The people, right now, are holding a power in their hands that, if they choose to employ it, will absolutely work to bring down the oligarchs and the government.

    All they have to do is stop spending money. Stop taking loans, stop sending children to universities, stop going to work, retire their debt or default on it, and especially stop shopping at Amazon and Walmart.

    This would cause enormous short term pain. Many people would lose everything and some would die, but I'm telling you within one week the US government would collapse and Clown World would be gone. The fact that people aren't willing to do this and aren't even talking about it tells me that they aren't really serious about changing the situation. Capitol protests are ineffective venting; it's demanding that somebody else change their behavior to solve your problem, and those somebodies have no intention of doing that unless you can hit them where it hurts. So cut off their money. Cut off the vig and churn from whence they derive their power. Defund Globohomo.

    Look at the situation in Texas right now. Here we have a vast agricultural and resource powerhouse that has more natural gas than Zeus' butthole, and they could not deliver electricity to millions of people for days. We have a fragile system, managed by incompetents, with all the design margin asset-scraped out of it. Unfortunately, the millions of people who were most harmed by this travesty still don't seem willing to up stakes and disengage from the system, and this is in Texas for crying out loud.

    As long as this continues we will have more and more incompetence, an ever shrinking capital base, and hordes of useless, dispirited human beings wandering around and looking for the next handout, even as the ongoing population collapse makes recovery a mathematical impossibility. But this is the world people seem to want, and Capitol riots will do nothing to prevent this, the real problem.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @A123, @Almost Missouri, @The Alarmist

    I think almost everyone who can and will disengage from the system has already done or is doing it, to the extent they can. (Both of us, for example, are evidently still paying for internet access.) And while I think that disengagement has purpose morally, I don’t think it will work materially, even if the disengagers were ten or a hundred or a thousand times as numerous.

    The problem is that where there is a fiat currency and a governing class to spend it, the Establishment simply arrogates money to its own purposes whether or not you agree to it. Do you decline to participate in Globohomo’s latest gambit? That’s fine, the Fed will simply dilute out a few trillion more dollars of global wealth and hand it to the legislature to spend on your behalf as if you had been full throatedly participating all along. No biggie. They’ve had that angle covered for a long time. They don’t really need anyone else’s participation or even consent.

    Let’s defund the police, defund the universities, defund the bureaucracy, and especially defund Wall Street and the tech companies.

    Yeah, I agree, but if you and I defund, they’ve already thought of that, and they still have the means and the motive to make up whatever shortfall we inflict.

    I really think that currency collapse is the threshold matter. Prior to it, Globohomo has infinite material power. After it, anything is possible.

    How long can they go on just printing and spending fake money? I dunno. I’ve been bracing for impact for years, but it hasn’t come yet and I’m getting complacent. The ancient Romans started hollowing out their currency in earnest a couple of centuries before barbarians finally overran the Forum, so maybe I’m way too soon. On the other hand, the Crisis of the Third Century was almost simultaneous to currency debasement. So … maybe we’ll see.

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    @Almost Missouri


    I really think that currency collapse is the threshold matter. Prior to it, Globohomo has infinite material power. After it, anything is possible.
     
    In you second paragraph, you more or less redefined currency collapse as being out of the realm of possibility, so I'm not sure how you expect it to occur. But what else do you call "diluting trillions of global wealth and spending it on your behalf"? The powers that be won't be able to get away with that.

    Besides, the last word in these debates always goes to Say's Law. You cannot consume what hasn't been produced. When people decide they've had enough of the rat race and stop going to work for make-believe money, no more production happens, no more money is spent, more production is shuttered, deflationary death spiral. They may have all the money, but there won't be anything to buy with it.

    The elites fear this above all because they have no ability to counter it and the people have the power to make it happen.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

  25. @Intelligent Dasein
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Disasters within disasters now unfolding in Texas.

    No electricity, no water, no cell service, no oil and gas production. Certain parts of Texas are effectively Third World hellholes right now. Each time something like this happens, the fallout gets worse and worse because we never address the underlying problems. To make matters worse, the governor of Texas has now banned sales of natural gas to power producers outside the state. This is causing chaos in northern Mexico and has the potential to actually blossom into an international incident.

    This is what the collapse and breakup of the United States means. It is not a peaceful constitutional process but a Ukrainian-Russian type calamity. Indeed, the parallel between the current situation and the post-Soviet "gas wars" are very intriguing. Is Texas our Ukraine?

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @unit472

    Is Texas our Ukraine?

    Do they have super-hot, blonde drug-addicted STD-infected whores?

  26. Most notable about the statistics:

    17% of Hispanics approve. This is HIGHER than White approval.

    All those who predict the “End to the GOP” are basing that on they idea that there will be a unified brown party. It is much more realistic to believe that Hispancs will see the DNC/CCP as a weapon of Black & “Han Yellow” privilege aimed at them.

    The WN fringes will wail, but the way forward for the GOP is absorbing Christian Hispanics that have successfully assimilated. The success of Governor Ron DeSantis in Florida shows that this strategy can work.

    PEACE 😇

    • Agree: V. K. Ovelund
  27. @dfordoom
    @Almost Missouri


    Why shouldn’t they elect just to burn it all down? It’s not like they’ve got anything to lose.
     
    If they think that way they really are monumentally dumb. Things could be a whole lot worse. Things could be several orders of magnitude worse. Take a look at what happens to countries when the social order actually breaks down completely and they collapse into anarchy and civil war because people decided to "burn it all down."

    You really haven't got a clue just how bad things can actually get when idiots decide to "burn it all down."

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @John Regan

    Things could be several orders of magnitude worse. Take a look at what happens to countries when the social order actually breaks down completely and they collapse into anarchy and civil war because people decided to “burn it all down.”

    I don’t disagree, but I’m no longer so young. Except for a few deviants, young people do not reckon up their futures like actuaries in green eye shades. They dream of glory, no mater how perverted their notion of it is. The Establishment offers them only degrading subjection. Can the Fed print enough fake money to fix this mismatch?

  28. @Charles Pewitt
    The young hotheads and the White Men Without College Degrees so enamoured of political violence are quite similar to the hothead boneheads in South Carolina and Massachusetts that dragged this country into a bloody civil war that killed 6 or 7 hundred thousand men and maimed and wounded a million or more and I say screw off you mangy mutts of insensate volatility and viciousness and Seward had the solution back then and it was to re-unify the nation by thrashing the Spaniards and their Mestizo followers once more in Mexico and the idiots clomping through the Capitol had their chance for decent and honorable political participation and action by voting for this writer for president in 2020 but they did not and now we sit sipping beer and ale and porter waiting patiently for the great disillusionment with globalizer geezer Biden to turn to the inevitable dissolution of this rotting and rancid empire made foul by the evil and treasonous fiends in the JEW/WASP Ruling Class.

    Pretentiousness Forever For My Country!

    Replies: @JohnPlywood

    Imagine writing a run-on sentence in the year 2021. Think of the complete lack of self-awareness, shame, and intelligence that it implies. Now realize that people like this are receiving entitlements and can broadcast their worthless opinions to the world 24/7.

    • Disagree: Nodwink
  29. @Almost Missouri
    @V. K. Ovelund

    Hol' up there, Chief. Was it really a "Riot"? After the mainstream media spent all year calling genuine riots (stores looted, monuments destroyed, buildings torched, authorities and innocent bystanders alike injured and killed) "protests" and "mostly peaceful protests" at that, are we now going to accept the framing of "riot" for an actual Protest where ... a podium was moved, while it was the authorities who injured and killed protesters?

    Except for the probable agent provocateurs who broke the windows through which Ashli Babbit was assassinated, there wasn't even any property damage. The Congressworms, high on their own supply of paranoia, fled the House in a state of self-induced panic, leaving the House floor to a few dazed protesters wandering as harmlessly as ill-dressed tourists. It was the Protesters' harmlessness itself that was the tremendous rebuke to the hypocritical pretensions of the corrupt legislature: so great was their fear of so little. All the pompous congressional speechifiers presuming to represent the nation literally cowered on the floor and fled in abject terror before a few ragged men with battered American flags.

    Can they ever recover?

    On January 6, 2121, may a grateful nation lay its wreaths on the honored Protester’s graves.

    Amen, brother.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

    Hol’ up there, Chief. Was it really a “Riot”?

    I do not know.

    I actually know some of the men of Charlottesville, three years earlier. I had had the date of the Charlottesville rally marked on my calendar in advance, so though I cowardly chose not to attend, I had a reasonably clear idea of what was transpiring in real time—and not merely via the corrupt ministrations of the Lügenpresse.

    January 6, 2021, was different. I had and have no special information. I assume that most of the information I do have consists of distortions and lies. If you say that the event was no riot, I believe you.

  30. @Intelligent Dasein
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Disasters within disasters now unfolding in Texas.

    No electricity, no water, no cell service, no oil and gas production. Certain parts of Texas are effectively Third World hellholes right now. Each time something like this happens, the fallout gets worse and worse because we never address the underlying problems. To make matters worse, the governor of Texas has now banned sales of natural gas to power producers outside the state. This is causing chaos in northern Mexico and has the potential to actually blossom into an international incident.

    This is what the collapse and breakup of the United States means. It is not a peaceful constitutional process but a Ukrainian-Russian type calamity. Indeed, the parallel between the current situation and the post-Soviet "gas wars" are very intriguing. Is Texas our Ukraine?

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @unit472

    What’s taking place in Texas is a profound milestone. There will be no ‘Build Back Better’! It will take all our effort to keep things from falling apart. Gail Tverberg’s blog Our Finite World, has been predicting an imminent collapse of the global economy as it has become so complex any disruption to any part of it causes a cascade of secondary effects. The erudite financial historian Jeff Snider of Alhambra Partners has pointed out how an imbalance in daily interbank settlements can create chaos in, first, the repo market and then the collapse of G-SIFI and James Kunstler, whose ‘World Made by Hand’ thssis I used to scoff at is coming true.

    If we are to avoid an economic collapse we need to stop tilting at climate change ‘Windmills’ and power our electric grid with ‘sustainable, dispatchable generating capacity not ‘renewable, unreliable’ power generation. If that means burning coal so be it.

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    @unit472

    Gail, Jeff, and Jim are three of my favorite contemporary writers, hands down, so thank you for mentioning them.

    However, this problem goes far beyond the renewable energy fiasco. Coal, oil, and natural gas facilities are just as vulnerable to societal decay and incompetence as anything else. What's the difference between a windfarm that doesn't work because it's too cold and a nuclear power plant that doesn't work because the managers never bothered to winterize it?

    , @The Alarmist
    @unit472


    If we are to avoid an economic collapse we need to stop tilting at climate change ‘Windmills’ and power our electric grid with ‘sustainable, dispatchable generating capacity not ‘renewable, unreliable’ power generation. If that means burning coal so be it
     
    Imagine Texas this week with everyone owning electric vehicles. We aren’t anywhere near sustainable now if we take hydrocarbon energy sources out of the picture. Maybe this is why they want to keep us locked down and fearful for as long as possible.
  31. @dfordoom
    @Almost Missouri


    Why shouldn’t they elect just to burn it all down? It’s not like they’ve got anything to lose.
     
    If they think that way they really are monumentally dumb. Things could be a whole lot worse. Things could be several orders of magnitude worse. Take a look at what happens to countries when the social order actually breaks down completely and they collapse into anarchy and civil war because people decided to "burn it all down."

    You really haven't got a clue just how bad things can actually get when idiots decide to "burn it all down."

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @John Regan

    Or the people in question have a clue, but evaluate things differently than you.

    Looking to history for examples, Germany in 1945 is probably the closest thing we have in living memory to a country that really was all burned down–large parts of it literally so, thanks to the US Air Force and Red Army. Millions of people were dead, tens of millions homeless and starving, all flailing about without leaders. The only reason they weren’t exterminated altogether through the Morgenthau Plan was that Truman decided he needed Germans as cannon fodder if World War III came about.

    Yet… once the US Army occupation forces stopped keeping germans in concentration camps and blowing up their remaining factories out of spite, and let them rebuild the country, they did. Twenty years later, it was awash in prosperity.

    And now, fifty years of prosperity later, it’s a multiracial cesspool that’s almost as bad (in some ways actually worse) than America. And just like America, it only keeps getting worse.

    A society can recover from extreme material disasters, as long as its people are still builders and doers. It cannot, however, recover if the people itself is destroyed or debased.

    Some ideologists on the right think it’s better if the burning down is done while there is still a core of real Americans around who can rebuild the country afterward. Most of them reason that if not, the burning will just come anyway a little later, once the present system runs out of gibz. To a lot of them, the events of 1943, 1968, 1992, and 2020 validate that prognosis.

    My own position: Damn the politicians who put us in the position where these are serious prospects for our future that we have to consider.

    • Agree: nokangaroos
    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @John Regan


    And now, fifty years of prosperity later, it’s a multiracial cesspool that’s almost as bad (in some ways actually worse) than America.
     
    Is it really?

    I spent considerable time in the Federal Republic of Germany during the mid-1980s but have not returned since. I remember that there were a few Turks about. The Turks stood out. That is all.

    I cannot imagine the cesspool you describe.

    Replies: @John Regan, @dfordoom

    , @dfordoom
    @John Regan


    Some ideologists on the right think it’s better if the burning down is done while there is still a core of real Americans around who can rebuild the country afterward.
     
    The problem with that is that if a complete collapse of the social order and/or civil war comes what makes you think that the "core of real Americans" will be the ones who come out on top? What makes you think that the "core of real Americans" will even survive such a cataclysm?

    As is the case with most of the beliefs popular on the far right this is a theory built on wishful thinking. It's based on a child-like belief that "our side are the Good Guys" and the Good Guys will win because they're the Good Guys.

    Replies: @John Regan

  32. @A123
    @Intelligent Dasein


    Look at the situation in Texas right now. Here we have a vast agricultural and resource powerhouse that has more natural gas than Zeus’ butthole, and they could not deliver electricity to millions of people for days. We have a fragile system, managed by incompetents, with all the design margin asset-scraped out of it. Unfortunately, the millions of people who were most harmed by this travesty still don’t seem willing to up stakes and disengage from the system, and this is in Texas for crying out loud.
     
    It is the folly of "renewable" energy. Frozen wind turbines and snow covered solar panels generate ZERO electricity at the most critical moments. (1)

    ... the major culprit may not be due to the record electricity demand, but rather, frozen wind turbines. While it’s true that Texans are using record electricity to keep warm during record cold temperatures, half of the state’s wind turbines are out of service.

    If you look at most of the mainstream news about the Texas blackouts, you won’t find much at all about frozen wind turbines. But, according to the Brandon Mulder Austin (Texas) American Statesmen, Frozen wind turbines hamper Texas power output; grid operator says, “Nearly half of Texas’ installed wind power generation capacity has been offline because of frozen wind turbines in West Texas, according to Texas grid operators.”

     

    Pursuing endangered species eliminating wind turbines is bad for the environment and bad for people. Why do people & governments continue to dump money into this failed technology? Hint: Which Elites benefit most?

    ... what happens as the state adds even more wind and solar power over the next decade as the NEW GREEN ENERGY policy put forth by the Biden Presidency goes FULL STEAM AHEAD?

    The world has no idea what a DISASTER it will face as it ramps up GREEN ENERGY
     
    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.silverdoctors.com/headlines/world-news/texas-suffers-major-electric-grid-blackouts-you-can-blame-frozen-wind-turbines-for-that-one/

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    It’s not just renewable energy, although that certainly isn’t helping. Please read what I wrote or, better yet, read the article I linked to.

    1. Natural gas wellheads are frozen and not producing anything.
    2. Oil refiners are shut down. 40% of US production capacity is currently offline.
    3. The Texas governor has forbidden the sale of natural gas for power generation outside the state.
    4. A nuclear(!) power plant in west Texas is shuttered because the plant managers failed to winterize it.

    This is an across-the-board energy emergency. Numbers 3 and 4 are particularly alarming because they indicate, respectively, a growing rift between states and a complete crisis of competence.

    Here is another article about how the Texas energy crisis is going global:
    Texas Frozen Chaos Becomes Global Oil Market Nightmare as 40% of US Crude Production Offline

    • Replies: @A123
    @Intelligent Dasein

    There is a 4-8 week lag between crude production, refining, and available fuel. There may be a price issue in April due to the crude refinery outages today, but that has little to do with the current problem.

    A limited number of natural gas well heads and one nuclear plant while unfortunate are not the core problem. The single most important root cause for the failures is the push for unreliable "renewables" that have no resiliency and are prone to fail at conditions associated with maximum demand.

    • The nuclear plant can (and should) be fully winterized after this event.
    • How will you fully winterize wind turbines so they remain 100% available?
    ____

    There is a huge difference between:

    -- Fixable problems with specific sites.
    -- Uncorrectable limitations inherent to certain technologies.

    There is nothing that can be done with wind turbines to make them resilient. They must be 100% backed up by fossil fuel generation "peaking" facilities. And, if natural gas powered, those "peaking" plants must be fully supplied with gas as part of the distribution network. Every new wind turbine installation needs to bear the full cost of these essential backups.

    The problem in Texas shows that there is a hard maximum of wind and solar that can be added to a power grid. At 20% Texas exceeded the tolerable maximum and must move away from wind and solar. If Texas refuses to obey the laws of physics, they will suffer additional problems in the future.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @anon, @Audacious Epigone

  33. @unit472
    @Intelligent Dasein

    What's taking place in Texas is a profound milestone. There will be no 'Build Back Better'! It will take all our effort to keep things from falling apart. Gail Tverberg's blog Our Finite World, has been predicting an imminent collapse of the global economy as it has become so complex any disruption to any part of it causes a cascade of secondary effects. The erudite financial historian Jeff Snider of Alhambra Partners has pointed out how an imbalance in daily interbank settlements can create chaos in, first, the repo market and then the collapse of G-SIFI and James Kunstler, whose 'World Made by Hand' thssis I used to scoff at is coming true.

    If we are to avoid an economic collapse we need to stop tilting at climate change 'Windmills' and power our electric grid with 'sustainable, dispatchable generating capacity not 'renewable, unreliable' power generation. If that means burning coal so be it.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @The Alarmist

    Gail, Jeff, and Jim are three of my favorite contemporary writers, hands down, so thank you for mentioning them.

    However, this problem goes far beyond the renewable energy fiasco. Coal, oil, and natural gas facilities are just as vulnerable to societal decay and incompetence as anything else. What’s the difference between a windfarm that doesn’t work because it’s too cold and a nuclear power plant that doesn’t work because the managers never bothered to winterize it?

  34. @Almost Missouri
    @Intelligent Dasein

    I think almost everyone who can and will disengage from the system has already done or is doing it, to the extent they can. (Both of us, for example, are evidently still paying for internet access.) And while I think that disengagement has purpose morally, I don't think it will work materially, even if the disengagers were ten or a hundred or a thousand times as numerous.

    The problem is that where there is a fiat currency and a governing class to spend it, the Establishment simply arrogates money to its own purposes whether or not you agree to it. Do you decline to participate in Globohomo's latest gambit? That's fine, the Fed will simply dilute out a few trillion more dollars of global wealth and hand it to the legislature to spend on your behalf as if you had been full throatedly participating all along. No biggie. They've had that angle covered for a long time. They don't really need anyone else's participation or even consent.


    Let’s defund the police, defund the universities, defund the bureaucracy, and especially defund Wall Street and the tech companies.
     
    Yeah, I agree, but if you and I defund, they've already thought of that, and they still have the means and the motive to make up whatever shortfall we inflict.

    I really think that currency collapse is the threshold matter. Prior to it, Globohomo has infinite material power. After it, anything is possible.

    How long can they go on just printing and spending fake money? I dunno. I've been bracing for impact for years, but it hasn't come yet and I'm getting complacent. The ancient Romans started hollowing out their currency in earnest a couple of centuries before barbarians finally overran the Forum, so maybe I'm way too soon. On the other hand, the Crisis of the Third Century was almost simultaneous to currency debasement. So ... maybe we'll see.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    I really think that currency collapse is the threshold matter. Prior to it, Globohomo has infinite material power. After it, anything is possible.

    In you second paragraph, you more or less redefined currency collapse as being out of the realm of possibility, so I’m not sure how you expect it to occur. But what else do you call “diluting trillions of global wealth and spending it on your behalf”? The powers that be won’t be able to get away with that.

    Besides, the last word in these debates always goes to Say’s Law. You cannot consume what hasn’t been produced. When people decide they’ve had enough of the rat race and stop going to work for make-believe money, no more production happens, no more money is spent, more production is shuttered, deflationary death spiral. They may have all the money, but there won’t be anything to buy with it.

    The elites fear this above all because they have no ability to counter it and the people have the power to make it happen.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Intelligent Dasein


    In you second paragraph, you more or less redefined currency collapse as being out of the realm of possibility, so I’m not sure how you expect it to occur.
     
    Printing money as described in the second paragraph is how the Fed takes the effect of our disengagement out of the realm of possibility, not how it takes currency collapse out of the realm of possibility. On the contrary, each time Federal Establishment falsely spends on our behalf, it slightly moves currency collapse into the realm of possibility.

    The powers that be won’t be able to get away with that.
     
    Right, but starting when? So far, it's been working pretty well for them.

    When people decide they’ve had enough of the rat race and stop going to work for make-believe money, no more production happens
     
    I expect when the money stops buying anything, people will stop going to work for it, rather than the other way around.

    They may have all the money, but there won’t be anything to buy with it.
     
    Eventually, but when?

    According to Wiki, global net wealth is $360 trillion. The Fed is currently printing trillion dollar bills. So each of those brand new trillion dollar bills inflates global currency by about 0.3%. At what point do those extra trillions tip into an exponential curve? I still don't know. But when I did these calculations a few years ago I needed a lot more decimal places. Now we're getting into whole numbers, percentage-wise. Once the whole numbers become double digit, that looks like game over. Either the Fed has to stop printing, instantly cutting the Federal behemoth by two-thirds, or the Fed has to go full hyperinflation, imminently bankrupting the dollar. The smarter and less destructive option would be the former, but I suspect the the Fed's masters will not permit that, so it will be the latter.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

  35. @John Regan
    @dfordoom

    Or the people in question have a clue, but evaluate things differently than you.

    Looking to history for examples, Germany in 1945 is probably the closest thing we have in living memory to a country that really was all burned down--large parts of it literally so, thanks to the US Air Force and Red Army. Millions of people were dead, tens of millions homeless and starving, all flailing about without leaders. The only reason they weren't exterminated altogether through the Morgenthau Plan was that Truman decided he needed Germans as cannon fodder if World War III came about.

    Yet... once the US Army occupation forces stopped keeping germans in concentration camps and blowing up their remaining factories out of spite, and let them rebuild the country, they did. Twenty years later, it was awash in prosperity.

    And now, fifty years of prosperity later, it's a multiracial cesspool that's almost as bad (in some ways actually worse) than America. And just like America, it only keeps getting worse.

    A society can recover from extreme material disasters, as long as its people are still builders and doers. It cannot, however, recover if the people itself is destroyed or debased.

    Some ideologists on the right think it's better if the burning down is done while there is still a core of real Americans around who can rebuild the country afterward. Most of them reason that if not, the burning will just come anyway a little later, once the present system runs out of gibz. To a lot of them, the events of 1943, 1968, 1992, and 2020 validate that prognosis.

    My own position: Damn the politicians who put us in the position where these are serious prospects for our future that we have to consider.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @dfordoom

    And now, fifty years of prosperity later, it’s a multiracial cesspool that’s almost as bad (in some ways actually worse) than America.

    Is it really?

    I spent considerable time in the Federal Republic of Germany during the mid-1980s but have not returned since. I remember that there were a few Turks about. The Turks stood out. That is all.

    I cannot imagine the cesspool you describe.

    • Replies: @John Regan
    @V. K. Ovelund

    I don't live in Germany either, so I can't give a ground level everyday view from personal experience. I'm in touch with people who do, though, and they'll say it's far worse today than even just ten years ago. And keeps getting worse.

    The diversity itself is still not as bad as the US though. For what is worse, I was thinking more of such things as thought crime laws, public school brainwashing and general police state methods and antifa anarcho-tyranny. I could have made that point more clearly.

    , @dfordoom
    @V. K. Ovelund



    And now, fifty years of prosperity later, it’s a multiracial cesspool that’s almost as bad (in some ways actually worse) than America.
     
    Is it really?
     
    Of course not.

    You've put your finger on one of the main problems facing the dissident right and other far right groups. They have succumbed to hysteria and wild exaggeration.

    The West has its problems and there are some very very worrying trends. But the West is not close to collapse. Western countries are not dysfunctional hellholes. For most people in the West life is still pretty damned good. Living in western countries is not like living in a war zone. It's not like living in a Mad Max movie. There are not bodies piled up in the streets.

    There are still consumer goods on the shelves. There is still social media and celebrity culture. There's still limitless porn. There's still mindless entertainment. There's still sport to watch on TV. Hollywood is still making comic-book movies. Even in the US most people are not homeless. People are not starving. The biggest public health problem facing the US is that poor Americans are too fat because they have too much to eat.

    There's a lot less freedom of speech but people don't care about freedom of speech and they never did. In Britain there's virtually no freedom of speech but the British don't care. They'd like the government to crack down even harder. A significant proportion of Americans would be delighted to see freedom of speech abolished. It's something that ordinary people couldn't care less about because they have no strong opinions anyway other than the opinions that will get them more Likes on facebook.

    People in the West have the things that matter to them. They don't care about the things that the far right obsesses over.

    We're a long long way from a revolutionary situation. We're a long long way from a situation in which people will throw away what they have for the sake of revolution or civil war. Very very very few ordinary people want a revolution or a civil war.

    We're also a long long way from a situation in which people will risk what they have (their houses, their jobs, their pensions, their families) for the sake of pipe-dreams like secession. Life is still much too good to make such risks seem attractive. Only a tiny handful of people would at this stage be willing to take such an insane risk.

    My feeling is that we're decades away from a situation in which people would be prepared to risk everything for the sake of a right-wing revolution or to create white ethnostates or to create breakaway right-wing states. It's quite possible (indeed probable) that we will never reach such a situation.

    I made the point in a comment on another thread that one of the problems social conservatives face is that most people actually like living in a decadent society. Most people do not see the world the way the far right sees it.

    There is widespread disillusionment, especially in the US, but it's nowhere near sufficient to persuade most people that it would be a good idea to burn it all down.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

  36. @Intelligent Dasein
    @A123

    It's not just renewable energy, although that certainly isn't helping. Please read what I wrote or, better yet, read the article I linked to.

    1. Natural gas wellheads are frozen and not producing anything.
    2. Oil refiners are shut down. 40% of US production capacity is currently offline.
    3. The Texas governor has forbidden the sale of natural gas for power generation outside the state.
    4. A nuclear(!) power plant in west Texas is shuttered because the plant managers failed to winterize it.

    This is an across-the-board energy emergency. Numbers 3 and 4 are particularly alarming because they indicate, respectively, a growing rift between states and a complete crisis of competence.

    Here is another article about how the Texas energy crisis is going global:
    Texas Frozen Chaos Becomes Global Oil Market Nightmare as 40% of US Crude Production Offline

    Replies: @A123

    There is a 4-8 week lag between crude production, refining, and available fuel. There may be a price issue in April due to the crude refinery outages today, but that has little to do with the current problem.

    A limited number of natural gas well heads and one nuclear plant while unfortunate are not the core problem. The single most important root cause for the failures is the push for unreliable “renewables” that have no resiliency and are prone to fail at conditions associated with maximum demand.

    • The nuclear plant can (and should) be fully winterized after this event.
    • How will you fully winterize wind turbines so they remain 100% available?
    ____

    There is a huge difference between:

    — Fixable problems with specific sites.
    — Uncorrectable limitations inherent to certain technologies.

    There is nothing that can be done with wind turbines to make them resilient. They must be 100% backed up by fossil fuel generation “peaking” facilities. And, if natural gas powered, those “peaking” plants must be fully supplied with gas as part of the distribution network. Every new wind turbine installation needs to bear the full cost of these essential backups.

    The problem in Texas shows that there is a hard maximum of wind and solar that can be added to a power grid. At 20% Texas exceeded the tolerable maximum and must move away from wind and solar. If Texas refuses to obey the laws of physics, they will suffer additional problems in the future.

    PEACE 😇

    • Agree: dfordoom
    • Replies: @anon
    @A123

    Lots of finger pointing down in Texas right now. About 50% of windmills dropped offline, many due to icing. But wind is expected to provide about 10% of total baseload during the winter, so that really wasn't as much of a factor as some claim.

    Texas has seen this movie before. Once in 1991, again in 1999 a really big Arctic cold front reached all the way to the south plains and caused problems. This one was a really big event. There was snow in Brownsville, Texas - that's subtropical, right where the Rio Grande flows into the Gulf of Mexico. Snow fell in the entire state of Texas, a nearly unique event. Lots of dwellings that far south have very simple heating like wall heaters, or essentially nothing more than space heaters plugged into the electric service. Because they almost never need much in the way of heat.

    This was a once-in-20-years event. Maybe it will become more common, in which case the various utilities will harden infrastructure to deal with it. Maybe it won't, in which case they won't spend that money.

    As with the Gamestop short, it's causing a lot of excitement but really isn't necessarily any kind of trendline, any more than last year's negative spike in the price of oil was part of a trend.

    BREAK

    I talked with a Boomer in the family a while back and he was remembering the Watergate hearings. He was in college then, working an on campus job and his boss had the radio tuned to the campus station, which was carrying the Senate live. He really didn't recall a lot about the hearings except that several of the Senators on the Erwin committee seemed frankly disoriented. Like they were drunk, or high, or something - they forgot what they were asking half way through a question, they would ask the same question twice, they would ask totally irrelevant questions. As a 20-something guy he was disgusted with the nearly brain dead fossils taking up a Senate seat.

    Then we laughed about DiFi and Pelosi and McConnell. Well, ok, not so much laughed as grimaced.

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @A123

    Texas' power generation is 20% renewable but 40% of the power that went offline last week was renewable. It wasn't an exclusively renewable energy crisis, but twice as much renewable as conventional capacity was down.

  37. anon[184] • Disclaimer says:

    For entertainment purposes only, “Roaring Kitty” is currently reading off his testimony to the House committee chaired by Maxine Waters. The CEO of Reddit just finished up. Kabuki theater via Zoom or some other vid conferencing. Up next the CEO of RobinHood, the zero cost online platform.

    It’s easy to see what happened: little guys managed to hammer a hedge fund that was insanely overshort on a particular company that didn’t have a huge supply of stock. Now the Congress must find a way to punish the little guys, because how dare they beat on a hedge fund!

    Here’s a pair of vid memes.
    Both Heath Ledger’s Joker and the more recent Joker movie have really resonated with younger men. Few people over 30 get it, though.

  38. @V. K. Ovelund
    @Arclight

    I reacted too quickly.


    It’s aggravating and obviously unfair, but that is terrain of the battlefield at this point.
     
    If you are saying that there will be another day to fight, then that is not abject surrender, is it? It is choosing the time and place.

    I differ from you on the benefit of the Capitol Riot, though. I suspect that the Riot was something that had to happen—not a good thing in itself, perhaps, but a thing to give our rulers pause.

    Such events are fated.

    On January 6, 2121, may a grateful nation lay its wreaths on the honored Rioter's graves.

    The Riot will have adverse consequences for you and me meanwhile, of course, but I firmly believe that the lack of a Riot would have had worse adverse consequences.

    The Riot has occurred. It will not recur. It is history, now. I just feel sorry for the poor saps that got suckered into joining it. Those are good patriots, most of them. 'Tis a shame.

    Replies: @Arclight, @Almost Missouri, @The Alarmist

    The fact that there are still thousands of troops, whether actually armed or not, shows they are scared shitless. They probably think Trump is planning to cross the Potomac with his MAGA army any day now.

    • Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @The Alarmist


    The fact that there are still thousands of troops, whether actually armed or not, shows they are scared shitless. They probably think Trump is planning to cross the Potomac with his MAGA army any day now.
     
    I suspect that the elites are having a good laugh. They can't believe their luck that a bunch of MAGAtards was dumb enough to do exactly what the elites hoped they would do.

    The elites can now proceed with the crackdowns, which is what they always wanted to do. They have been given the excuse they needed to stamp out dissent, both from the Right and within their own ranks.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @The Alarmist

    The troops are there because there is a crisis. After all, why would the troops be there if there wasn't a crisis? And the troops are there, so there must be a crisis!

  39. anon[184] • Disclaimer says:
    @A123
    @Intelligent Dasein

    There is a 4-8 week lag between crude production, refining, and available fuel. There may be a price issue in April due to the crude refinery outages today, but that has little to do with the current problem.

    A limited number of natural gas well heads and one nuclear plant while unfortunate are not the core problem. The single most important root cause for the failures is the push for unreliable "renewables" that have no resiliency and are prone to fail at conditions associated with maximum demand.

    • The nuclear plant can (and should) be fully winterized after this event.
    • How will you fully winterize wind turbines so they remain 100% available?
    ____

    There is a huge difference between:

    -- Fixable problems with specific sites.
    -- Uncorrectable limitations inherent to certain technologies.

    There is nothing that can be done with wind turbines to make them resilient. They must be 100% backed up by fossil fuel generation "peaking" facilities. And, if natural gas powered, those "peaking" plants must be fully supplied with gas as part of the distribution network. Every new wind turbine installation needs to bear the full cost of these essential backups.

    The problem in Texas shows that there is a hard maximum of wind and solar that can be added to a power grid. At 20% Texas exceeded the tolerable maximum and must move away from wind and solar. If Texas refuses to obey the laws of physics, they will suffer additional problems in the future.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @anon, @Audacious Epigone

    Lots of finger pointing down in Texas right now. About 50% of windmills dropped offline, many due to icing. But wind is expected to provide about 10% of total baseload during the winter, so that really wasn’t as much of a factor as some claim.

    Texas has seen this movie before. Once in 1991, again in 1999 a really big Arctic cold front reached all the way to the south plains and caused problems. This one was a really big event. There was snow in Brownsville, Texas – that’s subtropical, right where the Rio Grande flows into the Gulf of Mexico. Snow fell in the entire state of Texas, a nearly unique event. Lots of dwellings that far south have very simple heating like wall heaters, or essentially nothing more than space heaters plugged into the electric service. Because they almost never need much in the way of heat.

    This was a once-in-20-years event. Maybe it will become more common, in which case the various utilities will harden infrastructure to deal with it. Maybe it won’t, in which case they won’t spend that money.

    As with the Gamestop short, it’s causing a lot of excitement but really isn’t necessarily any kind of trendline, any more than last year’s negative spike in the price of oil was part of a trend.

    BREAK

    I talked with a Boomer in the family a while back and he was remembering the Watergate hearings. He was in college then, working an on campus job and his boss had the radio tuned to the campus station, which was carrying the Senate live. He really didn’t recall a lot about the hearings except that several of the Senators on the Erwin committee seemed frankly disoriented. Like they were drunk, or high, or something – they forgot what they were asking half way through a question, they would ask the same question twice, they would ask totally irrelevant questions. As a 20-something guy he was disgusted with the nearly brain dead fossils taking up a Senate seat.

    Then we laughed about DiFi and Pelosi and McConnell. Well, ok, not so much laughed as grimaced.

  40. @Intelligent Dasein
    @Almost Missouri

    I agree that the situation is terrible. Back when the "Defund the Police" meme was gaining traction, I made the comment that we ought to just defund everything, and that was the intent behind my comment. Let's defund the police, defund the universities, defund the bureaucracy, and especially defund Wall Street and the tech companies.

    If people really want to put an end to Globohomo Clown World, they can do it. The people, right now, are holding a power in their hands that, if they choose to employ it, will absolutely work to bring down the oligarchs and the government.

    All they have to do is stop spending money. Stop taking loans, stop sending children to universities, stop going to work, retire their debt or default on it, and especially stop shopping at Amazon and Walmart.

    This would cause enormous short term pain. Many people would lose everything and some would die, but I'm telling you within one week the US government would collapse and Clown World would be gone. The fact that people aren't willing to do this and aren't even talking about it tells me that they aren't really serious about changing the situation. Capitol protests are ineffective venting; it's demanding that somebody else change their behavior to solve your problem, and those somebodies have no intention of doing that unless you can hit them where it hurts. So cut off their money. Cut off the vig and churn from whence they derive their power. Defund Globohomo.

    Look at the situation in Texas right now. Here we have a vast agricultural and resource powerhouse that has more natural gas than Zeus' butthole, and they could not deliver electricity to millions of people for days. We have a fragile system, managed by incompetents, with all the design margin asset-scraped out of it. Unfortunately, the millions of people who were most harmed by this travesty still don't seem willing to up stakes and disengage from the system, and this is in Texas for crying out loud.

    As long as this continues we will have more and more incompetence, an ever shrinking capital base, and hordes of useless, dispirited human beings wandering around and looking for the next handout, even as the ongoing population collapse makes recovery a mathematical impossibility. But this is the world people seem to want, and Capitol riots will do nothing to prevent this, the real problem.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @A123, @Almost Missouri, @The Alarmist

    In the old days, real Texans wouldn’t sit around demanding hearings by their “leaders” into what went wrong, especially with it still continuing. They’d have already lynched the ERCOT board, inter alia.

  41. @unit472
    @Intelligent Dasein

    What's taking place in Texas is a profound milestone. There will be no 'Build Back Better'! It will take all our effort to keep things from falling apart. Gail Tverberg's blog Our Finite World, has been predicting an imminent collapse of the global economy as it has become so complex any disruption to any part of it causes a cascade of secondary effects. The erudite financial historian Jeff Snider of Alhambra Partners has pointed out how an imbalance in daily interbank settlements can create chaos in, first, the repo market and then the collapse of G-SIFI and James Kunstler, whose 'World Made by Hand' thssis I used to scoff at is coming true.

    If we are to avoid an economic collapse we need to stop tilting at climate change 'Windmills' and power our electric grid with 'sustainable, dispatchable generating capacity not 'renewable, unreliable' power generation. If that means burning coal so be it.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @The Alarmist

    If we are to avoid an economic collapse we need to stop tilting at climate change ‘Windmills’ and power our electric grid with ‘sustainable, dispatchable generating capacity not ‘renewable, unreliable’ power generation. If that means burning coal so be it

    Imagine Texas this week with everyone owning electric vehicles. We aren’t anywhere near sustainable now if we take hydrocarbon energy sources out of the picture. Maybe this is why they want to keep us locked down and fearful for as long as possible.

  42. @V. K. Ovelund
    @John Regan


    And now, fifty years of prosperity later, it’s a multiracial cesspool that’s almost as bad (in some ways actually worse) than America.
     
    Is it really?

    I spent considerable time in the Federal Republic of Germany during the mid-1980s but have not returned since. I remember that there were a few Turks about. The Turks stood out. That is all.

    I cannot imagine the cesspool you describe.

    Replies: @John Regan, @dfordoom

    I don’t live in Germany either, so I can’t give a ground level everyday view from personal experience. I’m in touch with people who do, though, and they’ll say it’s far worse today than even just ten years ago. And keeps getting worse.

    The diversity itself is still not as bad as the US though. For what is worse, I was thinking more of such things as thought crime laws, public school brainwashing and general police state methods and antifa anarcho-tyranny. I could have made that point more clearly.

  43. @Intelligent Dasein
    @Almost Missouri


    I really think that currency collapse is the threshold matter. Prior to it, Globohomo has infinite material power. After it, anything is possible.
     
    In you second paragraph, you more or less redefined currency collapse as being out of the realm of possibility, so I'm not sure how you expect it to occur. But what else do you call "diluting trillions of global wealth and spending it on your behalf"? The powers that be won't be able to get away with that.

    Besides, the last word in these debates always goes to Say's Law. You cannot consume what hasn't been produced. When people decide they've had enough of the rat race and stop going to work for make-believe money, no more production happens, no more money is spent, more production is shuttered, deflationary death spiral. They may have all the money, but there won't be anything to buy with it.

    The elites fear this above all because they have no ability to counter it and the people have the power to make it happen.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    In you second paragraph, you more or less redefined currency collapse as being out of the realm of possibility, so I’m not sure how you expect it to occur.

    Printing money as described in the second paragraph is how the Fed takes the effect of our disengagement out of the realm of possibility, not how it takes currency collapse out of the realm of possibility. On the contrary, each time Federal Establishment falsely spends on our behalf, it slightly moves currency collapse into the realm of possibility.

    The powers that be won’t be able to get away with that.

    Right, but starting when? So far, it’s been working pretty well for them.

    When people decide they’ve had enough of the rat race and stop going to work for make-believe money, no more production happens

    I expect when the money stops buying anything, people will stop going to work for it, rather than the other way around.

    They may have all the money, but there won’t be anything to buy with it.

    Eventually, but when?

    According to Wiki, global net wealth is $360 trillion. The Fed is currently printing trillion dollar bills. So each of those brand new trillion dollar bills inflates global currency by about 0.3%. At what point do those extra trillions tip into an exponential curve? I still don’t know. But when I did these calculations a few years ago I needed a lot more decimal places. Now we’re getting into whole numbers, percentage-wise. Once the whole numbers become double digit, that looks like game over. Either the Fed has to stop printing, instantly cutting the Federal behemoth by two-thirds, or the Fed has to go full hyperinflation, imminently bankrupting the dollar. The smarter and less destructive option would be the former, but I suspect the the Fed’s masters will not permit that, so it will be the latter.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    @Almost Missouri


    According to Wiki, global net wealth is $360 trillion.
     
    Wikipedia seems to be using a mark-to-market valuation here, not a cost of replacement. It includes current equity and real estate values. That means that a good percentage of that 360 tril is due to the inflation that the money printing itself engendered. What is the Tobin's Q ratio of the world's real assets? That's the more significant question, because when the crisis really does hit, all those stocks, bonds, real estate, and luxury items are going to pennies on the dollar.

    You know how difficult it is to commit to a timetable for future events, but if you want a date I will go ahead and throw one out there: 2028

    That's the year that the age of the oldest Boomers equals the median age of death, which means the liquidation of broad classes of property and effectively defaulting on a whole bunch of credit card debt that cannot be charged to the estate. It will also mark just the beginning of a 20 year trend of the same. That sort of deflationary selling pressure will be unstoppable.

    So, no later than 2028, unless an incident intervenes to hasten it.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

  44. January 6, the Capitol being stormed by angry Americans.

    This ruined the narrative of the election fraudsters.

    That image of the Capitol on Jan 6 shattered the ‘transition integrity’ the plotters had hoped for. It was indelible and priceless.

    We owe a debt to those brave and reckless souls. The value of what they achieved will grow with time. Our children and our children’s children will revere that iconic moment.

    • Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
  45. @Almost Missouri
    @Intelligent Dasein


    In you second paragraph, you more or less redefined currency collapse as being out of the realm of possibility, so I’m not sure how you expect it to occur.
     
    Printing money as described in the second paragraph is how the Fed takes the effect of our disengagement out of the realm of possibility, not how it takes currency collapse out of the realm of possibility. On the contrary, each time Federal Establishment falsely spends on our behalf, it slightly moves currency collapse into the realm of possibility.

    The powers that be won’t be able to get away with that.
     
    Right, but starting when? So far, it's been working pretty well for them.

    When people decide they’ve had enough of the rat race and stop going to work for make-believe money, no more production happens
     
    I expect when the money stops buying anything, people will stop going to work for it, rather than the other way around.

    They may have all the money, but there won’t be anything to buy with it.
     
    Eventually, but when?

    According to Wiki, global net wealth is $360 trillion. The Fed is currently printing trillion dollar bills. So each of those brand new trillion dollar bills inflates global currency by about 0.3%. At what point do those extra trillions tip into an exponential curve? I still don't know. But when I did these calculations a few years ago I needed a lot more decimal places. Now we're getting into whole numbers, percentage-wise. Once the whole numbers become double digit, that looks like game over. Either the Fed has to stop printing, instantly cutting the Federal behemoth by two-thirds, or the Fed has to go full hyperinflation, imminently bankrupting the dollar. The smarter and less destructive option would be the former, but I suspect the the Fed's masters will not permit that, so it will be the latter.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    According to Wiki, global net wealth is $360 trillion.

    Wikipedia seems to be using a mark-to-market valuation here, not a cost of replacement. It includes current equity and real estate values. That means that a good percentage of that 360 tril is due to the inflation that the money printing itself engendered. What is the Tobin’s Q ratio of the world’s real assets? That’s the more significant question, because when the crisis really does hit, all those stocks, bonds, real estate, and luxury items are going to pennies on the dollar.

    You know how difficult it is to commit to a timetable for future events, but if you want a date I will go ahead and throw one out there: 2028

    That’s the year that the age of the oldest Boomers equals the median age of death, which means the liquidation of broad classes of property and effectively defaulting on a whole bunch of credit card debt that cannot be charged to the estate. It will also mark just the beginning of a 20 year trend of the same. That sort of deflationary selling pressure will be unstoppable.

    So, no later than 2028, unless an incident intervenes to hasten it.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Intelligent Dasein


    Wikipedia seems to be using a mark-to-market valuation here, not a cost of replacement. It includes current equity and real estate values. That means that a good percentage of that 360 tril is due to the inflation that the money printing itself engendered.
     
    In which case each new $trillion's dilution is even higher.

    And note that the Fed is not the only money printer. AFAIK all the big central banks are doing this in a coordinated cartel that would be illegal if ordinary citizens did it. So in reality, the dilution is maybe triple as fast as if it were the Fed alone.
  46. @Intelligent Dasein
    @Almost Missouri


    According to Wiki, global net wealth is $360 trillion.
     
    Wikipedia seems to be using a mark-to-market valuation here, not a cost of replacement. It includes current equity and real estate values. That means that a good percentage of that 360 tril is due to the inflation that the money printing itself engendered. What is the Tobin's Q ratio of the world's real assets? That's the more significant question, because when the crisis really does hit, all those stocks, bonds, real estate, and luxury items are going to pennies on the dollar.

    You know how difficult it is to commit to a timetable for future events, but if you want a date I will go ahead and throw one out there: 2028

    That's the year that the age of the oldest Boomers equals the median age of death, which means the liquidation of broad classes of property and effectively defaulting on a whole bunch of credit card debt that cannot be charged to the estate. It will also mark just the beginning of a 20 year trend of the same. That sort of deflationary selling pressure will be unstoppable.

    So, no later than 2028, unless an incident intervenes to hasten it.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    Wikipedia seems to be using a mark-to-market valuation here, not a cost of replacement. It includes current equity and real estate values. That means that a good percentage of that 360 tril is due to the inflation that the money printing itself engendered.

    In which case each new $trillion’s dilution is even higher.

    And note that the Fed is not the only money printer. AFAIK all the big central banks are doing this in a coordinated cartel that would be illegal if ordinary citizens did it. So in reality, the dilution is maybe triple as fast as if it were the Fed alone.

  47. The phrase “took over” is not within the approved jargon that young people have been indoctrinated in. The approval percentage would have been even higher if the poll question had used “reach out” or “team” or “partnered with.”

    I’ve been practicing these and other phrases, for the time when they come for me. Even more important, to convince them that I am harmless, I have been practicing what I call “the stupid look” in front of a mirror. (An Asian-American woman told me that I have actually had this look for years, but I replied and I am improving it.)

  48. @Chrisnonymous
    Are there surveys on young people's attitudes to violence from 60-70 years ago? Any changes?

    Replies: @dfordoom

    Are there surveys on young people’s attitudes to violence from 60-70 years ago? Any changes?

    That would be interesting to know.

    As said, “Young people are usually the ones spoiling for action. They just want to do something, or at least see something done, to make them feel alive. It does not mean that they approve of the cause or even understand the cause; indeed, there may not even be much of cause. There will always be people, particularly young people, who just want to be where the action is.”

    If you look back at history, at various political, social and cultural revolutions, you’ll probably find that the driving force was young people who were excited by the prospect of doing something, even if doing something amounted to little more than smashing things.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @dfordoom

    In the words of the Incredible Hulk, "Hulk smash!".

    So satisfying!

  49. @John Regan
    @dfordoom

    Or the people in question have a clue, but evaluate things differently than you.

    Looking to history for examples, Germany in 1945 is probably the closest thing we have in living memory to a country that really was all burned down--large parts of it literally so, thanks to the US Air Force and Red Army. Millions of people were dead, tens of millions homeless and starving, all flailing about without leaders. The only reason they weren't exterminated altogether through the Morgenthau Plan was that Truman decided he needed Germans as cannon fodder if World War III came about.

    Yet... once the US Army occupation forces stopped keeping germans in concentration camps and blowing up their remaining factories out of spite, and let them rebuild the country, they did. Twenty years later, it was awash in prosperity.

    And now, fifty years of prosperity later, it's a multiracial cesspool that's almost as bad (in some ways actually worse) than America. And just like America, it only keeps getting worse.

    A society can recover from extreme material disasters, as long as its people are still builders and doers. It cannot, however, recover if the people itself is destroyed or debased.

    Some ideologists on the right think it's better if the burning down is done while there is still a core of real Americans around who can rebuild the country afterward. Most of them reason that if not, the burning will just come anyway a little later, once the present system runs out of gibz. To a lot of them, the events of 1943, 1968, 1992, and 2020 validate that prognosis.

    My own position: Damn the politicians who put us in the position where these are serious prospects for our future that we have to consider.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @dfordoom

    Some ideologists on the right think it’s better if the burning down is done while there is still a core of real Americans around who can rebuild the country afterward.

    The problem with that is that if a complete collapse of the social order and/or civil war comes what makes you think that the “core of real Americans” will be the ones who come out on top? What makes you think that the “core of real Americans” will even survive such a cataclysm?

    As is the case with most of the beliefs popular on the far right this is a theory built on wishful thinking. It’s based on a child-like belief that “our side are the Good Guys” and the Good Guys will win because they’re the Good Guys.

    • Replies: @John Regan
    @dfordoom


    The problem with that is that if a complete collapse of the social order and/or civil war comes what makes you think that the “core of real Americans” will be the ones who come out on top? What makes you think that the “core of real Americans” will even survive such a cataclysm?
     
    In a total collapse scenario, if that is what you're asking about, I would personally predict that the rural segment of the population will do better than the urbanites, who by and large are far weaker in material reserves, social support networks and useful skills. If power and services were to be shut down for any length of time in major urban regions, they would quickly become death traps. Meanwhile, smaller communities would be much better equipped to handle similar crises. Since the competitor ethnies tend by and large to cluster in the large cities, this will be a powerful factor in the favor of real Americans.

    Similarly, while the diversicrats are doing their best to change this, real Americans are still heavily represented in the military (and especially so the combat arms), as well as law enforcement agencies. While they are also for the most part solid regime loyalists as things now stand, in a total collapse scenario that will nonetheless matter. The even more favorable historical demographics of the armed forces also supply a lingering advantage.

    Raw numbers also favor the survival of real Americans, and probably a measure at least of victory on their part. Although, again, this situation is becoming ever more unfavorable, they will still remain the single largest ethnic group, even in a majority-minority near future. And of course, the average biological quality of that population is higher, as compared to its competitors.

    Then there are naturally also many negative factors to consider, ranging from the demographic (older population) to the geopolitical (potential foreign interventions, depending on how global and complete the collapse is) to the moral (exposure to libertarian and humanitarian propaganda, which the competitor groups have not suffered). Since relentless pessisism is your forte, you are probably better equipped to succinctly enumerate them than am I. Still when all is said and done I see no cause for complete despair just yet.

    If the collapse had happened sixty years ago, perhaps in the form of war with the USSR, I would naturally have mourned the horrible tragedy and loss of life, but I would also have had no doubts whatever about the brightly shining prospects of the reborn American nation some generation or generations after it. If, on the other hand, the collapse now pleases to wait another sixty years before we have it, giving the regime sufficient time to change America's demographics into something closer to South Africa... then the future looks radically darker.

    As is the case with most of the beliefs popular on the far right this is a theory built on wishful thinking. It’s based on a child-like belief that “our side are the Good Guys” and the Good Guys will win because they’re the Good Guys.
     
    With some it no doubt is. The vast majority of people, as I'm sure you would agree, are not critical thinkers. While in my experience the dissident right is of a rather higher intellectual caliber than the population average, I'd nonetheless hazard the same is still true here. (Of course, this irrationality is not always a bad thing either. Evolution has preserved it for a reason. In many situations, even an unwarranted optimism can be far more constructive than the most well argued doom and gloom.)

    I'd think, though, either way we are already well beyond the point where these scenarios can be dismissed as either wishful thinking or hysteria. Clearly they are now part of our potential future. That doesn't mean they are inevitable (it may be that our peoples simply surrender and disappear quietly, for example, as our enemies would much prefer). It does mean that we should take them seriously and do our best to be realistic about them.

    As for your later lengthy post, of course you're right the masses want no revolution. They never do. Sometimes they get one nonetheless, whether it's enabled by wars, economic crises or other factors. Just as the peasants in France didn't want their churches desecrated by Enlightenment intellectuals, any more than the peasants in Russia wanted to be collectivized and starved by Bolsheviks, sooner or later the peasants of America will find that whether they're interested in it or not, the revolution sure is interested in them. Regardless of whether it comes as some kind of Turner Diaries style nationalist revolution from below or (very much more likely at this point) a woke revolution from the top.

    Once more: Damn the politicians who put us in this situation.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @Intelligent Dasein, @dfordoom

  50. @V. K. Ovelund
    @John Regan


    And now, fifty years of prosperity later, it’s a multiracial cesspool that’s almost as bad (in some ways actually worse) than America.
     
    Is it really?

    I spent considerable time in the Federal Republic of Germany during the mid-1980s but have not returned since. I remember that there were a few Turks about. The Turks stood out. That is all.

    I cannot imagine the cesspool you describe.

    Replies: @John Regan, @dfordoom

    And now, fifty years of prosperity later, it’s a multiracial cesspool that’s almost as bad (in some ways actually worse) than America.

    Is it really?

    Of course not.

    You’ve put your finger on one of the main problems facing the dissident right and other far right groups. They have succumbed to hysteria and wild exaggeration.

    The West has its problems and there are some very very worrying trends. But the West is not close to collapse. Western countries are not dysfunctional hellholes. For most people in the West life is still pretty damned good. Living in western countries is not like living in a war zone. It’s not like living in a Mad Max movie. There are not bodies piled up in the streets.

    There are still consumer goods on the shelves. There is still social media and celebrity culture. There’s still limitless porn. There’s still mindless entertainment. There’s still sport to watch on TV. Hollywood is still making comic-book movies. Even in the US most people are not homeless. People are not starving. The biggest public health problem facing the US is that poor Americans are too fat because they have too much to eat.

    There’s a lot less freedom of speech but people don’t care about freedom of speech and they never did. In Britain there’s virtually no freedom of speech but the British don’t care. They’d like the government to crack down even harder. A significant proportion of Americans would be delighted to see freedom of speech abolished. It’s something that ordinary people couldn’t care less about because they have no strong opinions anyway other than the opinions that will get them more Likes on facebook.

    People in the West have the things that matter to them. They don’t care about the things that the far right obsesses over.

    We’re a long long way from a revolutionary situation. We’re a long long way from a situation in which people will throw away what they have for the sake of revolution or civil war. Very very very few ordinary people want a revolution or a civil war.

    We’re also a long long way from a situation in which people will risk what they have (their houses, their jobs, their pensions, their families) for the sake of pipe-dreams like secession. Life is still much too good to make such risks seem attractive. Only a tiny handful of people would at this stage be willing to take such an insane risk.

    My feeling is that we’re decades away from a situation in which people would be prepared to risk everything for the sake of a right-wing revolution or to create white ethnostates or to create breakaway right-wing states. It’s quite possible (indeed probable) that we will never reach such a situation.

    I made the point in a comment on another thread that one of the problems social conservatives face is that most people actually like living in a decadent society. Most people do not see the world the way the far right sees it.

    There is widespread disillusionment, especially in the US, but it’s nowhere near sufficient to persuade most people that it would be a good idea to burn it all down.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @dfordoom

    I cannot dissuade you from believing the U.S. dissident right to be someone other than who they are.

    Otherwise, it should not surprise you that I subscribe to practically everything you just wrote.

  51. @The Alarmist
    @V. K. Ovelund

    The fact that there are still thousands of troops, whether actually armed or not, shows they are scared shitless. They probably think Trump is planning to cross the Potomac with his MAGA army any day now.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Audacious Epigone

    The fact that there are still thousands of troops, whether actually armed or not, shows they are scared shitless. They probably think Trump is planning to cross the Potomac with his MAGA army any day now.

    I suspect that the elites are having a good laugh. They can’t believe their luck that a bunch of MAGAtards was dumb enough to do exactly what the elites hoped they would do.

    The elites can now proceed with the crackdowns, which is what they always wanted to do. They have been given the excuse they needed to stamp out dissent, both from the Right and within their own ranks.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @dfordoom

    The funny thing is that if Trump had announced he wanted an armed MAGA army to show up and take DC, that might have materialised in numbers too big to stop. That is why they are so panicked even now. I don’t think the Demonrats planned for the Capitol to be overrun, but their media allies were quick to call it an insurrection, so they probably thought it might be in the cards. Lucky for them, Trump is all Sturm und Drang.

  52. A third post on the Texas energy fiasco: Texas was seconds and minutes away from a complete disaster.

    If you read the article, the point made therein is that the grid operators decided to sacrifice a few million people for the “greater good” of covering up their own incompetence, because the grid was about to fail catastrophically. You may notice a common theme here with many other current events that seem to be coming to a head right about now. Let’s take a look at some.

    1. Remember the “flatten the curve” nonsense, when it was decided that lockdowns and social distancing were necessary to save the healthcare system, so people were not allowed to get their necessary checkups and treatments? It is supposed to be the job of the healthcare system to help the people, not the other way around.

    2. Observe how the Robinhooders just got fleeced when they tried to short-squeeze Gamestop. I wrote what happened to be a timely commentary upon this, even though it was in reference to something else: When the SHTF, they will not let you sell your stock. They will lock up your money and take it.

    3. The crowning example of this ensemble is, I believe, the $18 trillion of negative-yielding debt sloshing about in the global bond markets. This is a monetary bizarro world where no rules apply and anything is possible, because standards have been turned upside down.

    These separate phenomena all share the same Platonic form: It is the form of the elites literally sacrificing the proles to protect the system. It is an inversion of justice in a society that no longer serves the needs of its own members. It is like Roman proconsuls sacking their own provinces to gain the wherewithal for their political machinations back in the imperial city.

    This is why the world is stuck in an irreversible decline of ever expanding debt loads, ever eroding capital base, ever diminishing social cohesion, and population collapse. The decline will not be symmetrical with the ascent. The ascent was a slow, organic growth that compounded the gains of many centuries. But at the apex everything becomes entangled in petty economic problems, the factions split off, and the heads of the hydra start biting each other. Great masses of now superfluous humanity are simply discarded or used up in pointless intrigues that even future historians won’t understand. This is the endgame, the West’s final blow-off top. As unit472 said, there will be no building back better after this.

    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Oh, and I forgot to include another major example:

    4. Public school teachers insisting upon getting paid and yet not actually teaching in person. A more presumptuous "let them eat cake" from the beneficiaries of the system to its captured audience could hardly be imagined.

  53. @dfordoom
    @V. K. Ovelund



    And now, fifty years of prosperity later, it’s a multiracial cesspool that’s almost as bad (in some ways actually worse) than America.
     
    Is it really?
     
    Of course not.

    You've put your finger on one of the main problems facing the dissident right and other far right groups. They have succumbed to hysteria and wild exaggeration.

    The West has its problems and there are some very very worrying trends. But the West is not close to collapse. Western countries are not dysfunctional hellholes. For most people in the West life is still pretty damned good. Living in western countries is not like living in a war zone. It's not like living in a Mad Max movie. There are not bodies piled up in the streets.

    There are still consumer goods on the shelves. There is still social media and celebrity culture. There's still limitless porn. There's still mindless entertainment. There's still sport to watch on TV. Hollywood is still making comic-book movies. Even in the US most people are not homeless. People are not starving. The biggest public health problem facing the US is that poor Americans are too fat because they have too much to eat.

    There's a lot less freedom of speech but people don't care about freedom of speech and they never did. In Britain there's virtually no freedom of speech but the British don't care. They'd like the government to crack down even harder. A significant proportion of Americans would be delighted to see freedom of speech abolished. It's something that ordinary people couldn't care less about because they have no strong opinions anyway other than the opinions that will get them more Likes on facebook.

    People in the West have the things that matter to them. They don't care about the things that the far right obsesses over.

    We're a long long way from a revolutionary situation. We're a long long way from a situation in which people will throw away what they have for the sake of revolution or civil war. Very very very few ordinary people want a revolution or a civil war.

    We're also a long long way from a situation in which people will risk what they have (their houses, their jobs, their pensions, their families) for the sake of pipe-dreams like secession. Life is still much too good to make such risks seem attractive. Only a tiny handful of people would at this stage be willing to take such an insane risk.

    My feeling is that we're decades away from a situation in which people would be prepared to risk everything for the sake of a right-wing revolution or to create white ethnostates or to create breakaway right-wing states. It's quite possible (indeed probable) that we will never reach such a situation.

    I made the point in a comment on another thread that one of the problems social conservatives face is that most people actually like living in a decadent society. Most people do not see the world the way the far right sees it.

    There is widespread disillusionment, especially in the US, but it's nowhere near sufficient to persuade most people that it would be a good idea to burn it all down.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

    I cannot dissuade you from believing the U.S. dissident right to be someone other than who they are.

    Otherwise, it should not surprise you that I subscribe to practically everything you just wrote.

  54. @dfordoom
    @The Alarmist


    The fact that there are still thousands of troops, whether actually armed or not, shows they are scared shitless. They probably think Trump is planning to cross the Potomac with his MAGA army any day now.
     
    I suspect that the elites are having a good laugh. They can't believe their luck that a bunch of MAGAtards was dumb enough to do exactly what the elites hoped they would do.

    The elites can now proceed with the crackdowns, which is what they always wanted to do. They have been given the excuse they needed to stamp out dissent, both from the Right and within their own ranks.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    The funny thing is that if Trump had announced he wanted an armed MAGA army to show up and take DC, that might have materialised in numbers too big to stop. That is why they are so panicked even now. I don’t think the Demonrats planned for the Capitol to be overrun, but their media allies were quick to call it an insurrection, so they probably thought it might be in the cards. Lucky for them, Trump is all Sturm und Drang.

  55. @dfordoom
    @John Regan


    Some ideologists on the right think it’s better if the burning down is done while there is still a core of real Americans around who can rebuild the country afterward.
     
    The problem with that is that if a complete collapse of the social order and/or civil war comes what makes you think that the "core of real Americans" will be the ones who come out on top? What makes you think that the "core of real Americans" will even survive such a cataclysm?

    As is the case with most of the beliefs popular on the far right this is a theory built on wishful thinking. It's based on a child-like belief that "our side are the Good Guys" and the Good Guys will win because they're the Good Guys.

    Replies: @John Regan

    The problem with that is that if a complete collapse of the social order and/or civil war comes what makes you think that the “core of real Americans” will be the ones who come out on top? What makes you think that the “core of real Americans” will even survive such a cataclysm?

    In a total collapse scenario, if that is what you’re asking about, I would personally predict that the rural segment of the population will do better than the urbanites, who by and large are far weaker in material reserves, social support networks and useful skills. If power and services were to be shut down for any length of time in major urban regions, they would quickly become death traps. Meanwhile, smaller communities would be much better equipped to handle similar crises. Since the competitor ethnies tend by and large to cluster in the large cities, this will be a powerful factor in the favor of real Americans.

    Similarly, while the diversicrats are doing their best to change this, real Americans are still heavily represented in the military (and especially so the combat arms), as well as law enforcement agencies. While they are also for the most part solid regime loyalists as things now stand, in a total collapse scenario that will nonetheless matter. The even more favorable historical demographics of the armed forces also supply a lingering advantage.

    Raw numbers also favor the survival of real Americans, and probably a measure at least of victory on their part. Although, again, this situation is becoming ever more unfavorable, they will still remain the single largest ethnic group, even in a majority-minority near future. And of course, the average biological quality of that population is higher, as compared to its competitors.

    Then there are naturally also many negative factors to consider, ranging from the demographic (older population) to the geopolitical (potential foreign interventions, depending on how global and complete the collapse is) to the moral (exposure to libertarian and humanitarian propaganda, which the competitor groups have not suffered). Since relentless pessisism is your forte, you are probably better equipped to succinctly enumerate them than am I. Still when all is said and done I see no cause for complete despair just yet.

    If the collapse had happened sixty years ago, perhaps in the form of war with the USSR, I would naturally have mourned the horrible tragedy and loss of life, but I would also have had no doubts whatever about the brightly shining prospects of the reborn American nation some generation or generations after it. If, on the other hand, the collapse now pleases to wait another sixty years before we have it, giving the regime sufficient time to change America’s demographics into something closer to South Africa… then the future looks radically darker.

    As is the case with most of the beliefs popular on the far right this is a theory built on wishful thinking. It’s based on a child-like belief that “our side are the Good Guys” and the Good Guys will win because they’re the Good Guys.

    With some it no doubt is. The vast majority of people, as I’m sure you would agree, are not critical thinkers. While in my experience the dissident right is of a rather higher intellectual caliber than the population average, I’d nonetheless hazard the same is still true here. (Of course, this irrationality is not always a bad thing either. Evolution has preserved it for a reason. In many situations, even an unwarranted optimism can be far more constructive than the most well argued doom and gloom.)

    I’d think, though, either way we are already well beyond the point where these scenarios can be dismissed as either wishful thinking or hysteria. Clearly they are now part of our potential future. That doesn’t mean they are inevitable (it may be that our peoples simply surrender and disappear quietly, for example, as our enemies would much prefer). It does mean that we should take them seriously and do our best to be realistic about them.

    As for your later lengthy post, of course you’re right the masses want no revolution. They never do. Sometimes they get one nonetheless, whether it’s enabled by wars, economic crises or other factors. Just as the peasants in France didn’t want their churches desecrated by Enlightenment intellectuals, any more than the peasants in Russia wanted to be collectivized and starved by Bolsheviks, sooner or later the peasants of America will find that whether they’re interested in it or not, the revolution sure is interested in them. Regardless of whether it comes as some kind of Turner Diaries style nationalist revolution from below or (very much more likely at this point) a woke revolution from the top.

    Once more: Damn the politicians who put us in this situation.

    • Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
    @John Regan

    You haven't given any real reasons why rural people should fare better than urban, other than vague nondescript generalities like "useful skills", "material resources", and "better biological quality".


    None of that is true, though. You're just blowing off steam. Rural IQ is lower. Rural people are fatter, more suicidal, more drug snd alcohol afflicted. Rural people are poorer and have access to fewer material resources. In fact what we call "rural towns" today are nothing more than urban communities located some distance from actual urban metropolitan areas.


    Fact: most gasoline refineries are located near large metro areas

    Fact: most food processing centers are in large metro areas

    Fact: most farm equipment is manufactured in large metro areas

    Fact: most agricultural equipment is dependent on internet technology that is centered in large metro areas. No updates = no access to machinery. To quote a frustrated rural farmshit: "If things could get better, [companies like John Deere] should be forced to freely distribute the same software dealers have," they said. "And stop locking down [Engine Control Module] reading functionality. They do this to force you to use their services, which they have a 100 percent monopoly on.""

    Fact: US military is steadfastly committed to diversity, inclusion and equity, and the whites in the military are all a bunch of drug addicts who listen to Snoop Dogg (and believe Him)

    Fact: rural communities would be completely unliveable without modern agricultural equipment, gasoline supplied from urban communities, and electricity. Rural people have absolutely zero skills outside of using the simple but crucial technology that urban people supplied to them. They cannot farm enough to feed themselves by hand, cannot heat themzelves, cannot make the water run or sanitize the water on their own, and cannot travel without gasoline. That's a fact. Your ass is getting buried in a pine box by a diverse cosmopolitan army when SHTF just for making seditious comments like this on the internet.

    , @Intelligent Dasein
    @John Regan

    This was a really, really good comment, one superfluous reference to the discredited theory of evolution notwithstanding.

    While it's difficult to say who would fare the best in a total collapse scenario, it's quite obvious that the urban mobs would certainly fare the worst. The problem is, almost everybody is "the urban mob" these days and their numbers are formidable. They could lose half a million people per year and still outnumber everyone else for a century.

    That is why the collapse of civilizations involves a long depopulation process that goes on for hundreds of years, not a sharp fall off a cliff. These superfluous masses only had symbolic value as long as industrial society was a self-evident going concern. Now that its essence is being questioned, there is no reason for these giant hordes of people to exist, and exist they won't. They will extinguish themselves through their own lack of procreation and are already doing so.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    , @dfordoom
    @John Regan


    Since relentless pessisism is your forte
     
    One lesson that COVID has taught us is that we can't predict the future. Unpredictable game-changing events just suddenly happen completely out of the blue.

    There are lots of possible futures. Dramatic political realignments do happen. A decade or so go no-one in France would have predicted that the two dominant political parties would simply implode, but they did. Dramatic political realignments have happened in Italy as well.

    At the moment in the US the neoliberals and neocons are in total control of the Democratic party. But neoliberal economic policies are going to screw significant segments of the Democrat base. The numerous wars that the neocons are planning might not turn out well. The Democrats could become spectacularly divided.

    The Republican Party is clearly badly divided. Who knows what might happen?

    Could a third party emerge? Ross Perot did surprisingly well and the circumstances today are very much more favourable for a third party candidate.

    It's also not impossible that major splits could occur within the American elites. All American elites are globalists but they don't all agree on what globalism should mean. Many of the American elites are just old-fashioned American imperialists. Their idea of globalism is a global empire run from Washington.

    Some of the elites are environmentalist kooks. Other members of the elites are not going to be keen on trashing the economy for the sake of an environmental crisis which they know is pure BS.

    Elites have split in the past.

    The future doesn't have to be civil war. Civil war seems very very unlikely. Secession seems very very unlikely. But there are still many possible futures.
  56. @John Regan
    @dfordoom


    The problem with that is that if a complete collapse of the social order and/or civil war comes what makes you think that the “core of real Americans” will be the ones who come out on top? What makes you think that the “core of real Americans” will even survive such a cataclysm?
     
    In a total collapse scenario, if that is what you're asking about, I would personally predict that the rural segment of the population will do better than the urbanites, who by and large are far weaker in material reserves, social support networks and useful skills. If power and services were to be shut down for any length of time in major urban regions, they would quickly become death traps. Meanwhile, smaller communities would be much better equipped to handle similar crises. Since the competitor ethnies tend by and large to cluster in the large cities, this will be a powerful factor in the favor of real Americans.

    Similarly, while the diversicrats are doing their best to change this, real Americans are still heavily represented in the military (and especially so the combat arms), as well as law enforcement agencies. While they are also for the most part solid regime loyalists as things now stand, in a total collapse scenario that will nonetheless matter. The even more favorable historical demographics of the armed forces also supply a lingering advantage.

    Raw numbers also favor the survival of real Americans, and probably a measure at least of victory on their part. Although, again, this situation is becoming ever more unfavorable, they will still remain the single largest ethnic group, even in a majority-minority near future. And of course, the average biological quality of that population is higher, as compared to its competitors.

    Then there are naturally also many negative factors to consider, ranging from the demographic (older population) to the geopolitical (potential foreign interventions, depending on how global and complete the collapse is) to the moral (exposure to libertarian and humanitarian propaganda, which the competitor groups have not suffered). Since relentless pessisism is your forte, you are probably better equipped to succinctly enumerate them than am I. Still when all is said and done I see no cause for complete despair just yet.

    If the collapse had happened sixty years ago, perhaps in the form of war with the USSR, I would naturally have mourned the horrible tragedy and loss of life, but I would also have had no doubts whatever about the brightly shining prospects of the reborn American nation some generation or generations after it. If, on the other hand, the collapse now pleases to wait another sixty years before we have it, giving the regime sufficient time to change America's demographics into something closer to South Africa... then the future looks radically darker.

    As is the case with most of the beliefs popular on the far right this is a theory built on wishful thinking. It’s based on a child-like belief that “our side are the Good Guys” and the Good Guys will win because they’re the Good Guys.
     
    With some it no doubt is. The vast majority of people, as I'm sure you would agree, are not critical thinkers. While in my experience the dissident right is of a rather higher intellectual caliber than the population average, I'd nonetheless hazard the same is still true here. (Of course, this irrationality is not always a bad thing either. Evolution has preserved it for a reason. In many situations, even an unwarranted optimism can be far more constructive than the most well argued doom and gloom.)

    I'd think, though, either way we are already well beyond the point where these scenarios can be dismissed as either wishful thinking or hysteria. Clearly they are now part of our potential future. That doesn't mean they are inevitable (it may be that our peoples simply surrender and disappear quietly, for example, as our enemies would much prefer). It does mean that we should take them seriously and do our best to be realistic about them.

    As for your later lengthy post, of course you're right the masses want no revolution. They never do. Sometimes they get one nonetheless, whether it's enabled by wars, economic crises or other factors. Just as the peasants in France didn't want their churches desecrated by Enlightenment intellectuals, any more than the peasants in Russia wanted to be collectivized and starved by Bolsheviks, sooner or later the peasants of America will find that whether they're interested in it or not, the revolution sure is interested in them. Regardless of whether it comes as some kind of Turner Diaries style nationalist revolution from below or (very much more likely at this point) a woke revolution from the top.

    Once more: Damn the politicians who put us in this situation.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @Intelligent Dasein, @dfordoom

    You haven’t given any real reasons why rural people should fare better than urban, other than vague nondescript generalities like “useful skills”, “material resources”, and “better biological quality”.

    None of that is true, though. You’re just blowing off steam. Rural IQ is lower. Rural people are fatter, more suicidal, more drug snd alcohol afflicted. Rural people are poorer and have access to fewer material resources. In fact what we call “rural towns” today are nothing more than urban communities located some distance from actual urban metropolitan areas.

    Fact: most gasoline refineries are located near large metro areas

    Fact: most food processing centers are in large metro areas

    Fact: most farm equipment is manufactured in large metro areas

    Fact: most agricultural equipment is dependent on internet technology that is centered in large metro areas. No updates = no access to machinery. To quote a frustrated rural farmshit: “If things could get better, [companies like John Deere] should be forced to freely distribute the same software dealers have,” they said. “And stop locking down [Engine Control Module] reading functionality. They do this to force you to use their services, which they have a 100 percent monopoly on.””

    Fact: US military is steadfastly committed to diversity, inclusion and equity, and the whites in the military are all a bunch of drug addicts who listen to Snoop Dogg (and believe Him)

    Fact: rural communities would be completely unliveable without modern agricultural equipment, gasoline supplied from urban communities, and electricity. Rural people have absolutely zero skills outside of using the simple but crucial technology that urban people supplied to them. They cannot farm enough to feed themselves by hand, cannot heat themzelves, cannot make the water run or sanitize the water on their own, and cannot travel without gasoline. That’s a fact. Your ass is getting buried in a pine box by a diverse cosmopolitan army when SHTF just for making seditious comments like this on the internet.

  57. @dfordoom
    @Chrisnonymous


    Are there surveys on young people’s attitudes to violence from 60-70 years ago? Any changes?
     
    That would be interesting to know.

    As @Intelligent Dasein said, "Young people are usually the ones spoiling for action. They just want to do something, or at least see something done, to make them feel alive. It does not mean that they approve of the cause or even understand the cause; indeed, there may not even be much of cause. There will always be people, particularly young people, who just want to be where the action is."

    If you look back at history, at various political, social and cultural revolutions, you'll probably find that the driving force was young people who were excited by the prospect of doing something, even if doing something amounted to little more than smashing things.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    In the words of the Incredible Hulk, “Hulk smash!”.

    So satisfying!

  58. @John Regan
    @dfordoom


    The problem with that is that if a complete collapse of the social order and/or civil war comes what makes you think that the “core of real Americans” will be the ones who come out on top? What makes you think that the “core of real Americans” will even survive such a cataclysm?
     
    In a total collapse scenario, if that is what you're asking about, I would personally predict that the rural segment of the population will do better than the urbanites, who by and large are far weaker in material reserves, social support networks and useful skills. If power and services were to be shut down for any length of time in major urban regions, they would quickly become death traps. Meanwhile, smaller communities would be much better equipped to handle similar crises. Since the competitor ethnies tend by and large to cluster in the large cities, this will be a powerful factor in the favor of real Americans.

    Similarly, while the diversicrats are doing their best to change this, real Americans are still heavily represented in the military (and especially so the combat arms), as well as law enforcement agencies. While they are also for the most part solid regime loyalists as things now stand, in a total collapse scenario that will nonetheless matter. The even more favorable historical demographics of the armed forces also supply a lingering advantage.

    Raw numbers also favor the survival of real Americans, and probably a measure at least of victory on their part. Although, again, this situation is becoming ever more unfavorable, they will still remain the single largest ethnic group, even in a majority-minority near future. And of course, the average biological quality of that population is higher, as compared to its competitors.

    Then there are naturally also many negative factors to consider, ranging from the demographic (older population) to the geopolitical (potential foreign interventions, depending on how global and complete the collapse is) to the moral (exposure to libertarian and humanitarian propaganda, which the competitor groups have not suffered). Since relentless pessisism is your forte, you are probably better equipped to succinctly enumerate them than am I. Still when all is said and done I see no cause for complete despair just yet.

    If the collapse had happened sixty years ago, perhaps in the form of war with the USSR, I would naturally have mourned the horrible tragedy and loss of life, but I would also have had no doubts whatever about the brightly shining prospects of the reborn American nation some generation or generations after it. If, on the other hand, the collapse now pleases to wait another sixty years before we have it, giving the regime sufficient time to change America's demographics into something closer to South Africa... then the future looks radically darker.

    As is the case with most of the beliefs popular on the far right this is a theory built on wishful thinking. It’s based on a child-like belief that “our side are the Good Guys” and the Good Guys will win because they’re the Good Guys.
     
    With some it no doubt is. The vast majority of people, as I'm sure you would agree, are not critical thinkers. While in my experience the dissident right is of a rather higher intellectual caliber than the population average, I'd nonetheless hazard the same is still true here. (Of course, this irrationality is not always a bad thing either. Evolution has preserved it for a reason. In many situations, even an unwarranted optimism can be far more constructive than the most well argued doom and gloom.)

    I'd think, though, either way we are already well beyond the point where these scenarios can be dismissed as either wishful thinking or hysteria. Clearly they are now part of our potential future. That doesn't mean they are inevitable (it may be that our peoples simply surrender and disappear quietly, for example, as our enemies would much prefer). It does mean that we should take them seriously and do our best to be realistic about them.

    As for your later lengthy post, of course you're right the masses want no revolution. They never do. Sometimes they get one nonetheless, whether it's enabled by wars, economic crises or other factors. Just as the peasants in France didn't want their churches desecrated by Enlightenment intellectuals, any more than the peasants in Russia wanted to be collectivized and starved by Bolsheviks, sooner or later the peasants of America will find that whether they're interested in it or not, the revolution sure is interested in them. Regardless of whether it comes as some kind of Turner Diaries style nationalist revolution from below or (very much more likely at this point) a woke revolution from the top.

    Once more: Damn the politicians who put us in this situation.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @Intelligent Dasein, @dfordoom

    This was a really, really good comment, one superfluous reference to the discredited theory of evolution notwithstanding.

    While it’s difficult to say who would fare the best in a total collapse scenario, it’s quite obvious that the urban mobs would certainly fare the worst. The problem is, almost everybody is “the urban mob” these days and their numbers are formidable. They could lose half a million people per year and still outnumber everyone else for a century.

    That is why the collapse of civilizations involves a long depopulation process that goes on for hundreds of years, not a sharp fall off a cliff. These superfluous masses only had symbolic value as long as industrial society was a self-evident going concern. Now that its essence is being questioned, there is no reason for these giant hordes of people to exist, and exist they won’t. They will extinguish themselves through their own lack of procreation and are already doing so.

    • Troll: JohnPlywood
    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Intelligent Dasein


    While it’s difficult to say who would fare the best in a total collapse scenario, it’s quite obvious that the urban mobs would certainly fare the worst.
     
    The people who will fare the best will be the ones who end up in control of the military.

    Over the next few years I would expect rural whites and conservatives to be ruthlessly purged from the military. And ruthlessly purged from police forces.

    The main purpose of standing armies and police forces is to keep the ruling class in power. The ruling class won't care if they end up with a less effective military or less effective police forces as long as they are politically reliable.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood

  59. @Intelligent Dasein
    A third post on the Texas energy fiasco: Texas was seconds and minutes away from a complete disaster.

    If you read the article, the point made therein is that the grid operators decided to sacrifice a few million people for the "greater good" of covering up their own incompetence, because the grid was about to fail catastrophically. You may notice a common theme here with many other current events that seem to be coming to a head right about now. Let's take a look at some.

    1. Remember the "flatten the curve" nonsense, when it was decided that lockdowns and social distancing were necessary to save the healthcare system, so people were not allowed to get their necessary checkups and treatments? It is supposed to be the job of the healthcare system to help the people, not the other way around.

    2. Observe how the Robinhooders just got fleeced when they tried to short-squeeze Gamestop. I wrote what happened to be a timely commentary upon this, even though it was in reference to something else: When the SHTF, they will not let you sell your stock. They will lock up your money and take it.

    3. The crowning example of this ensemble is, I believe, the $18 trillion of negative-yielding debt sloshing about in the global bond markets. This is a monetary bizarro world where no rules apply and anything is possible, because standards have been turned upside down.

    These separate phenomena all share the same Platonic form: It is the form of the elites literally sacrificing the proles to protect the system. It is an inversion of justice in a society that no longer serves the needs of its own members. It is like Roman proconsuls sacking their own provinces to gain the wherewithal for their political machinations back in the imperial city.

    This is why the world is stuck in an irreversible decline of ever expanding debt loads, ever eroding capital base, ever diminishing social cohesion, and population collapse. The decline will not be symmetrical with the ascent. The ascent was a slow, organic growth that compounded the gains of many centuries. But at the apex everything becomes entangled in petty economic problems, the factions split off, and the heads of the hydra start biting each other. Great masses of now superfluous humanity are simply discarded or used up in pointless intrigues that even future historians won't understand. This is the endgame, the West's final blow-off top. As unit472 said, there will be no building back better after this.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    Oh, and I forgot to include another major example:

    4. Public school teachers insisting upon getting paid and yet not actually teaching in person. A more presumptuous “let them eat cake” from the beneficiaries of the system to its captured audience could hardly be imagined.

  60. @John Regan
    @dfordoom


    The problem with that is that if a complete collapse of the social order and/or civil war comes what makes you think that the “core of real Americans” will be the ones who come out on top? What makes you think that the “core of real Americans” will even survive such a cataclysm?
     
    In a total collapse scenario, if that is what you're asking about, I would personally predict that the rural segment of the population will do better than the urbanites, who by and large are far weaker in material reserves, social support networks and useful skills. If power and services were to be shut down for any length of time in major urban regions, they would quickly become death traps. Meanwhile, smaller communities would be much better equipped to handle similar crises. Since the competitor ethnies tend by and large to cluster in the large cities, this will be a powerful factor in the favor of real Americans.

    Similarly, while the diversicrats are doing their best to change this, real Americans are still heavily represented in the military (and especially so the combat arms), as well as law enforcement agencies. While they are also for the most part solid regime loyalists as things now stand, in a total collapse scenario that will nonetheless matter. The even more favorable historical demographics of the armed forces also supply a lingering advantage.

    Raw numbers also favor the survival of real Americans, and probably a measure at least of victory on their part. Although, again, this situation is becoming ever more unfavorable, they will still remain the single largest ethnic group, even in a majority-minority near future. And of course, the average biological quality of that population is higher, as compared to its competitors.

    Then there are naturally also many negative factors to consider, ranging from the demographic (older population) to the geopolitical (potential foreign interventions, depending on how global and complete the collapse is) to the moral (exposure to libertarian and humanitarian propaganda, which the competitor groups have not suffered). Since relentless pessisism is your forte, you are probably better equipped to succinctly enumerate them than am I. Still when all is said and done I see no cause for complete despair just yet.

    If the collapse had happened sixty years ago, perhaps in the form of war with the USSR, I would naturally have mourned the horrible tragedy and loss of life, but I would also have had no doubts whatever about the brightly shining prospects of the reborn American nation some generation or generations after it. If, on the other hand, the collapse now pleases to wait another sixty years before we have it, giving the regime sufficient time to change America's demographics into something closer to South Africa... then the future looks radically darker.

    As is the case with most of the beliefs popular on the far right this is a theory built on wishful thinking. It’s based on a child-like belief that “our side are the Good Guys” and the Good Guys will win because they’re the Good Guys.
     
    With some it no doubt is. The vast majority of people, as I'm sure you would agree, are not critical thinkers. While in my experience the dissident right is of a rather higher intellectual caliber than the population average, I'd nonetheless hazard the same is still true here. (Of course, this irrationality is not always a bad thing either. Evolution has preserved it for a reason. In many situations, even an unwarranted optimism can be far more constructive than the most well argued doom and gloom.)

    I'd think, though, either way we are already well beyond the point where these scenarios can be dismissed as either wishful thinking or hysteria. Clearly they are now part of our potential future. That doesn't mean they are inevitable (it may be that our peoples simply surrender and disappear quietly, for example, as our enemies would much prefer). It does mean that we should take them seriously and do our best to be realistic about them.

    As for your later lengthy post, of course you're right the masses want no revolution. They never do. Sometimes they get one nonetheless, whether it's enabled by wars, economic crises or other factors. Just as the peasants in France didn't want their churches desecrated by Enlightenment intellectuals, any more than the peasants in Russia wanted to be collectivized and starved by Bolsheviks, sooner or later the peasants of America will find that whether they're interested in it or not, the revolution sure is interested in them. Regardless of whether it comes as some kind of Turner Diaries style nationalist revolution from below or (very much more likely at this point) a woke revolution from the top.

    Once more: Damn the politicians who put us in this situation.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @Intelligent Dasein, @dfordoom

    Since relentless pessisism is your forte

    One lesson that COVID has taught us is that we can’t predict the future. Unpredictable game-changing events just suddenly happen completely out of the blue.

    There are lots of possible futures. Dramatic political realignments do happen. A decade or so go no-one in France would have predicted that the two dominant political parties would simply implode, but they did. Dramatic political realignments have happened in Italy as well.

    At the moment in the US the neoliberals and neocons are in total control of the Democratic party. But neoliberal economic policies are going to screw significant segments of the Democrat base. The numerous wars that the neocons are planning might not turn out well. The Democrats could become spectacularly divided.

    The Republican Party is clearly badly divided. Who knows what might happen?

    Could a third party emerge? Ross Perot did surprisingly well and the circumstances today are very much more favourable for a third party candidate.

    It’s also not impossible that major splits could occur within the American elites. All American elites are globalists but they don’t all agree on what globalism should mean. Many of the American elites are just old-fashioned American imperialists. Their idea of globalism is a global empire run from Washington.

    Some of the elites are environmentalist kooks. Other members of the elites are not going to be keen on trashing the economy for the sake of an environmental crisis which they know is pure BS.

    Elites have split in the past.

    The future doesn’t have to be civil war. Civil war seems very very unlikely. Secession seems very very unlikely. But there are still many possible futures.

  61. @Intelligent Dasein
    @John Regan

    This was a really, really good comment, one superfluous reference to the discredited theory of evolution notwithstanding.

    While it's difficult to say who would fare the best in a total collapse scenario, it's quite obvious that the urban mobs would certainly fare the worst. The problem is, almost everybody is "the urban mob" these days and their numbers are formidable. They could lose half a million people per year and still outnumber everyone else for a century.

    That is why the collapse of civilizations involves a long depopulation process that goes on for hundreds of years, not a sharp fall off a cliff. These superfluous masses only had symbolic value as long as industrial society was a self-evident going concern. Now that its essence is being questioned, there is no reason for these giant hordes of people to exist, and exist they won't. They will extinguish themselves through their own lack of procreation and are already doing so.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    While it’s difficult to say who would fare the best in a total collapse scenario, it’s quite obvious that the urban mobs would certainly fare the worst.

    The people who will fare the best will be the ones who end up in control of the military.

    Over the next few years I would expect rural whites and conservatives to be ruthlessly purged from the military. And ruthlessly purged from police forces.

    The main purpose of standing armies and police forces is to keep the ruling class in power. The ruling class won’t care if they end up with a less effective military or less effective police forces as long as they are politically reliable.

    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
    @dfordoom

    Oh look, another wild prediction from the sediment layer of the internet to laugh at in a few years.

  62. @dfordoom
    @Intelligent Dasein


    While it’s difficult to say who would fare the best in a total collapse scenario, it’s quite obvious that the urban mobs would certainly fare the worst.
     
    The people who will fare the best will be the ones who end up in control of the military.

    Over the next few years I would expect rural whites and conservatives to be ruthlessly purged from the military. And ruthlessly purged from police forces.

    The main purpose of standing armies and police forces is to keep the ruling class in power. The ruling class won't care if they end up with a less effective military or less effective police forces as long as they are politically reliable.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood

    Oh look, another wild prediction from the sediment layer of the internet to laugh at in a few years.

  63. @A123
    @Intelligent Dasein

    There is a 4-8 week lag between crude production, refining, and available fuel. There may be a price issue in April due to the crude refinery outages today, but that has little to do with the current problem.

    A limited number of natural gas well heads and one nuclear plant while unfortunate are not the core problem. The single most important root cause for the failures is the push for unreliable "renewables" that have no resiliency and are prone to fail at conditions associated with maximum demand.

    • The nuclear plant can (and should) be fully winterized after this event.
    • How will you fully winterize wind turbines so they remain 100% available?
    ____

    There is a huge difference between:

    -- Fixable problems with specific sites.
    -- Uncorrectable limitations inherent to certain technologies.

    There is nothing that can be done with wind turbines to make them resilient. They must be 100% backed up by fossil fuel generation "peaking" facilities. And, if natural gas powered, those "peaking" plants must be fully supplied with gas as part of the distribution network. Every new wind turbine installation needs to bear the full cost of these essential backups.

    The problem in Texas shows that there is a hard maximum of wind and solar that can be added to a power grid. At 20% Texas exceeded the tolerable maximum and must move away from wind and solar. If Texas refuses to obey the laws of physics, they will suffer additional problems in the future.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @anon, @Audacious Epigone

    Texas’ power generation is 20% renewable but 40% of the power that went offline last week was renewable. It wasn’t an exclusively renewable energy crisis, but twice as much renewable as conventional capacity was down.

  64. @The Alarmist
    @V. K. Ovelund

    The fact that there are still thousands of troops, whether actually armed or not, shows they are scared shitless. They probably think Trump is planning to cross the Potomac with his MAGA army any day now.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Audacious Epigone

    The troops are there because there is a crisis. After all, why would the troops be there if there wasn’t a crisis? And the troops are there, so there must be a crisis!

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