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I fear at some point the Wokeists will set their sights on the polling industry. Incredulity at the very existence of the (partially publicly-funded) GSS has been noted in the comments many times over the years here.

In this vein, an empirical look at the scourge of anti-Semitism reveals it to be disturbingly darker than blue checkmarked members of the 2% often insinuate. The following graph shows the percentages of people, by selected demographic characteristics, who think it is anti-Semitic “to deny the historical fact of the Holocaust”:

One-quarter of respondents said they were “not sure”, and that figure was higher among low-information demographics such as young people and non-whites. Still, the contemporary zeitgeist conceives the Holocaust as second maybe only to slavery as America’s greatest sin. Being agnostic about the Holocaust is scarcely any more tolerable than being unsure of whether or not ending slavery was a good thing. There is exactly one opinion Americans are allowed to have about the Holocaust and precisely one opinion they are allowed to have about slavery.

That non-whites are more tolerant of Holocaust skepticism than whites are, and that moderates and conservatives are more tolerant of Holocaust skepticism than liberals are allows us to deduce that white liberals will brook no dissent on the subject, while non-white Democrats are open to discussing it. This will increasingly come to be a point of contention among various factions within the intersectional coalition.

Is it plausible that at some point in the future, as whites become a minority, the distinction between white Jew and white gentile will be lost on most of the population? Most people will be non-white at that point, after all. Complaints about anti-Semitism will be viewed by most as a cynical way for a subset of white oppressors to play the victim. And to make matters worse, it will tend to be the most privileged white people who try to pull the ploy off!

Even if that seems far-fetched, being bearish on the future rhetorical and political power of Holocaust invocation is not. Old white liberals reject any and all critical discussion of the tragedy. Young non-whites don’t think it’s that big of a deal.

Parenthetically, some may be wondering how America, having played a decisive role in ending the Holocaust, is blamed for its occurrence. Well, you may also wonder why you are today called a nazi for believing the same things your grandfather–who fought the nazis–believed. And that just proves what a bad person you are.

 
• Category: Culture/Society, History, Race/Ethnicity • Tags: Jews, Polling 
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  1. I’ve mentioned it before, but I think it is really remarkable how the narrative of the city of Boston was effectively captured and transformed from the heritage American story of the Revolutionary War and freedom, to the oppression narrative of antisemitism and slavery.

    IMO, it is best typified by the Zakim-Bunker Hill Bridge:

    Wiki: Allegations of antisemitism were leveled against members of the mostly white, Irish Catholic community as reasons for resistance to the Zakim name, based on some comments quoted in the Boston Globe. Several local neo-Nazis also complained about the honor for Zakim and launched an unsuccessful petition drive to drop his name from the Bunker Hill one (the petition needed 100 signatures to be reviewed by the Massachusetts State Legislature and only 20 people signed it). In response, several community leaders spoke out against the allegations in a press conference, stating that the claims, made by Professor Jonathan Sarna, were his alone and did not reflect the community’s historical (not racial) basis of favoring the “Bunker Hill” name, though they dodged questions about the false claim that no Jews had fought in the battle of Bunker Hill.

  2. I really wonder how the Chinese, Indians & Africans (on the basis of their sheer numbers) feel about the whole antisemitism movement. I wonder whether they are as open to being guilt tripped as we in the West. On the face, you’d think not…. however the sophistication of the Zionist!/Jewish movement & it’s propaganda leaves fair room for doubt….

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Both Chinese and Indians tend to have huge respect for people they perceive as financially successful so the perception of Jews in those cultures is almost universally positive.

    Indians in particularly are very pro-Jew and pro-Israel because they see them as a natural ally against Pakistan and also Indians themselves are rather Jew-like in their mentality and behaviour, so I think they recognise themselves in typical Jewish character traits.

  3. some may be wondering how America, having played a decisive role in ending the Holocaust, is blamed for its occurrence

    1. It’s kinda hard to end something that didn’t happen

    2. This is price you pay for worshipping the Devil. And I mean that quite literally.

  4. When the government, media, and schools and universities have had a repeated history of lying about everything, it is understandable why people are questioning everything that they have ever been told!

    If all of those institutions had a history f always tellng the truth, and if someone were to just question the holocaust, but nothing else, that would appear to be a very strange obsession.

    The holocaust happened. It was not limited to Jews. It has been exagerated and used as propaganda. Even holocaust deniers that have produced an 8 hour documentary on Adolf Hitler, romanticizing Hitler, inadvertently proved that it did take place, in his attempts to prove that it did not take place, by saying, of course there were piles of hair and shoes, their heads were shaved and they were given uniforms in the camps! Zyclon B was commonly used as a delousing agent at the time. The concentration camp people were not gassed with Zyclon B to kill them. It was to delouse them. Starving emaciated workers were seen in video because typhus had that effect on people.

    What were they doing in the camps in the first place? The Pritikin diet spa?

    • Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros
    Apparently, Germans found extermination cheaper when they were shuttled thousands of miles from the ends of the Continent, instead of being shot on the spot.

    Also, the locals were willing to give their life in order to protect their local Jews, so they had to be removed to German-only areas. Oswiecim, Brzezinska, Sobibor, Treblinka, Belzek, Majdanek, Chelmno, Sajmiste, Trostinets, Slana, you name it - only Arians as far as the eye could see.
  5. I sense that the Holocaust Industry realizes that their time is running low, and are intensifying their efforts to brainwash the population.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    The Holocaust Industry, as such, doesn't need to do much to work up white liberals. The latter will latch onto any "worthy cause" and self-flagellate in order to virtue-signal (at least in public) and to use the same as a cudgel, with which to beat down the less woke. A healthy degree of humility and self-reflection is, of course, admirable, but in extreme such a thing turns into vice, and there is more than a whiff of the Red Guard mob tendencies in the public self-flagellation of white liberals today.

    With them, if it weren't about the Holocaust, it'd be something else. This is not to say that American Jews don't see profit in encouraging this vice amongst the former, but I suspect their success in this exploitation is merely a reflection of their facility rather than moral inferiority. They are, on average, just better at it than many other peoples (though I'd like to believe that there are still men left on this earth who are motivated by their sense of honor).
  6. @Nodwink
    I sense that the Holocaust Industry realizes that their time is running low, and are intensifying their efforts to brainwash the population.

    The Holocaust Industry, as such, doesn’t need to do much to work up white liberals. The latter will latch onto any “worthy cause” and self-flagellate in order to virtue-signal (at least in public) and to use the same as a cudgel, with which to beat down the less woke. A healthy degree of humility and self-reflection is, of course, admirable, but in extreme such a thing turns into vice, and there is more than a whiff of the Red Guard mob tendencies in the public self-flagellation of white liberals today.

    With them, if it weren’t about the Holocaust, it’d be something else. This is not to say that American Jews don’t see profit in encouraging this vice amongst the former, but I suspect their success in this exploitation is merely a reflection of their facility rather than moral inferiority. They are, on average, just better at it than many other peoples (though I’d like to believe that there are still men left on this earth who are motivated by their sense of honor).

  7. I think in the future the Diverse will regard Jews as uber whites and therefore not worthy of any sympathy for whatever their ancestors went through.

    Given the outsized role Jews have played in the financial and intellectual development of the woke left I would say that it would be amusing to watch the coming food fight except that the rest of us will suffer too.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    I think it behooves everyone to start thinking about the political landscape once Jews are regarded as especially privileged whites. That time is coming.
  8. Leaving aside the misinformed and the uninformed, I can’t really see how Holocaust deniers can’t be thought of as anti-Semites.

    • Disagree: Hail
    • Replies: @Gandydancer
    "Leaving aside the misinformed and the uninformed, I can’t really see how Holocaust deniers can’t be thought of as anti-Semites."

    Those aren't disjunct groups. It's easily observed that many of the misinformed are determinedly so because they are anti-Semites.
    , @SFG
    It's theoretically possible, but unlikely in practice as the event is very well-documented.

    The reverse is plausible, though. It's entirely possible to believe (a) that the Holocaust happened and (b) that Jewish control of the media is used to push mass immigration and opposition to nationalism. (Indeed, A helps explain B--having millions of your relatives killed is going to produce a massive reaction against whatever got them killed, and of course restrictive immigration policies in the 30s were a big reason many of them couldn't flee here.)

    I think it has more to do with the refusal of people in general to concede any point to 'the other side' (and this is true across the political spectrum). I think the Left is right on climate, for instance, but Karlin got a huge amount of blowback for admitting it (and probably does at least in part because he is pro-Russian and climate change will probably be good for Russia long-term).

    , @dfordoom

    Leaving aside the misinformed and the uninformed, I can’t really see how Holocaust deniers can’t be thought of as anti-Semites.
     
    I guess you have to ask one question. Have you ever met a Holocaust deniers who didn't hate Jews?

    The same thing applies to that other issue. Have you ever met an apologist for slavery in the US who didn't hate blacks?
  9. anonymous[263] • Disclaimer says:

    Anti-Whites denounce self preference and preservation (‘racism’), but for Whites only. The 90% of the world we call minorities is given this Privilege.

    Look at a map and highlight every country/area that ‘needs diversity’, mass immigration. It’s only wherever White people are.

    Diversity is a strength really means White people are a problem.

    Non-White Privilege? Borders.

    When does anti-White ‘diversity’ policy end? If not at 10% of the world population as now, then when? Five percent? Zero percent?

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Whites are still being blamed in Zimbabwe. It'll be zero percent unless whites demand otherwise.
  10. Persistent Protocols

    You are working hard to make sure that the SJW outrage mobs come for you first.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    I thought mocking the protocols was a good thing to do!
  11. @iffen
    Leaving aside the misinformed and the uninformed, I can't really see how Holocaust deniers can't be thought of as anti-Semites.

    “Leaving aside the misinformed and the uninformed, I can’t really see how Holocaust deniers can’t be thought of as anti-Semites.”

    Those aren’t disjunct groups. It’s easily observed that many of the misinformed are determinedly so because they are anti-Semites.

    • Replies: @iffen
    It’s easily observed that many of the misinformed are determinedly so

    True enough, but if you waste enough time reading the comments at TUR it is easy enough to observe some that are intellectually sound. I have only two explanations for their participation. One is political, which means that they know the Holocaust occurred, but are horrified by seeing the political benefits accruing from the Holocaust industry and believe denial is the best combative tactic. The other explanation is whatever the mechanism is that allows otherwise normal people to go gaga over some ideology like Stalinism.

  12. Parenthetically, some may be wondering how America, having played a decisive role in ending the Holocaust, is blamed for its occurrence.

    C’mon, they got reparations from Belgium and Swizerland and are trying to get them from Poland, and America are helping them to carry out these heists.

  13. @iffen
    Leaving aside the misinformed and the uninformed, I can't really see how Holocaust deniers can't be thought of as anti-Semites.

    It’s theoretically possible, but unlikely in practice as the event is very well-documented.

    The reverse is plausible, though. It’s entirely possible to believe (a) that the Holocaust happened and (b) that Jewish control of the media is used to push mass immigration and opposition to nationalism. (Indeed, A helps explain B–having millions of your relatives killed is going to produce a massive reaction against whatever got them killed, and of course restrictive immigration policies in the 30s were a big reason many of them couldn’t flee here.)

    I think it has more to do with the refusal of people in general to concede any point to ‘the other side’ (and this is true across the political spectrum). I think the Left is right on climate, for instance, but Karlin got a huge amount of blowback for admitting it (and probably does at least in part because he is pro-Russian and climate change will probably be good for Russia long-term).

    • Agree: iffen
    • Replies: @216

    and of course restrictive immigration policies in the 30s were a big reason many of them couldn’t flee here
     
    Revisionism

    The quotas established in 1924 had a larger number for Germany than for any country except the UK.

    The largest Jewish popualtions were in Poland and the USSR. The latter had closed borders.

    Some Jews left for France and the Low Countries, they didn't imagine that in 1938 that these countries would be overrun so fast, considering the experience of the first war.

    The Trujllo dictatorship in the DR had no restrictions on Jewish immigration.

    German policy was more dedicated to revenue from the exit tax, than it was to inducing Jews to leave.
  14. Anonymous[217] • Disclaimer says:
    @animalogic
    I really wonder how the Chinese, Indians & Africans (on the basis of their sheer numbers) feel about the whole antisemitism movement. I wonder whether they are as open to being guilt tripped as we in the West. On the face, you'd think not.... however the sophistication of the Zionist!/Jewish movement & it's propaganda leaves fair room for doubt....

    Both Chinese and Indians tend to have huge respect for people they perceive as financially successful so the perception of Jews in those cultures is almost universally positive.

    Indians in particularly are very pro-Jew and pro-Israel because they see them as a natural ally against Pakistan and also Indians themselves are rather Jew-like in their mentality and behaviour, so I think they recognise themselves in typical Jewish character traits.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor

    Indians in particularly are very pro-Jew and pro-Israel because they see them as a natural ally against Pakistan
     
    Not so much that.

    Jews and Hindus share common interest in squeezing Whitey. That's what really counts.
  15. I don’t see anyone blaming America for the holocaust. I’m not sure I’d call it anti-semitic to deny it, but it sure is ignorant. Just like anyone denying slavery would be ignorant.

    From what I can tell, minorities don’t think of Jews as much different from other whites. With the high Jewish intermarriage rate, Jewish genes are basically being dispersed among other smart whites and Asians.

    • Replies: @GodHelpUs
    If I were to say "slavery didn't happen", people would be confused or amused.

    If I were to say "the Holocaust didn't happen", people would be outraged and try to silence me.

    Only lies need to be protected by censorship. The truth gets stronger under criticism.
  16. @Marty T
    I don't see anyone blaming America for the holocaust. I'm not sure I'd call it anti-semitic to deny it, but it sure is ignorant. Just like anyone denying slavery would be ignorant.

    From what I can tell, minorities don't think of Jews as much different from other whites. With the high Jewish intermarriage rate, Jewish genes are basically being dispersed among other smart whites and Asians.

    If I were to say “slavery didn’t happen”, people would be confused or amused.

    If I were to say “the Holocaust didn’t happen”, people would be outraged and try to silence me.

    Only lies need to be protected by censorship. The truth gets stronger under criticism.

  17. @SFG
    It's theoretically possible, but unlikely in practice as the event is very well-documented.

    The reverse is plausible, though. It's entirely possible to believe (a) that the Holocaust happened and (b) that Jewish control of the media is used to push mass immigration and opposition to nationalism. (Indeed, A helps explain B--having millions of your relatives killed is going to produce a massive reaction against whatever got them killed, and of course restrictive immigration policies in the 30s were a big reason many of them couldn't flee here.)

    I think it has more to do with the refusal of people in general to concede any point to 'the other side' (and this is true across the political spectrum). I think the Left is right on climate, for instance, but Karlin got a huge amount of blowback for admitting it (and probably does at least in part because he is pro-Russian and climate change will probably be good for Russia long-term).

    and of course restrictive immigration policies in the 30s were a big reason many of them couldn’t flee here

    Revisionism

    The quotas established in 1924 had a larger number for Germany than for any country except the UK.

    The largest Jewish popualtions were in Poland and the USSR. The latter had closed borders.

    Some Jews left for France and the Low Countries, they didn’t imagine that in 1938 that these countries would be overrun so fast, considering the experience of the first war.

    The Trujllo dictatorship in the DR had no restrictions on Jewish immigration.

    German policy was more dedicated to revenue from the exit tax, than it was to inducing Jews to leave.

    • Replies: @SFG
    Bottom line, a lot couldn't get out.

    The restricted immigration also probably had a huge role in America's golden age in the 50s and early 60s as everyone was starting to assimilate. This is one of those cases where American and Jewish interests diverge.
  18. @216

    and of course restrictive immigration policies in the 30s were a big reason many of them couldn’t flee here
     
    Revisionism

    The quotas established in 1924 had a larger number for Germany than for any country except the UK.

    The largest Jewish popualtions were in Poland and the USSR. The latter had closed borders.

    Some Jews left for France and the Low Countries, they didn't imagine that in 1938 that these countries would be overrun so fast, considering the experience of the first war.

    The Trujllo dictatorship in the DR had no restrictions on Jewish immigration.

    German policy was more dedicated to revenue from the exit tax, than it was to inducing Jews to leave.

    Bottom line, a lot couldn’t get out.

    The restricted immigration also probably had a huge role in America’s golden age in the 50s and early 60s as everyone was starting to assimilate. This is one of those cases where American and Jewish interests diverge.

    • Replies: @iffen
    Bottom line, a lot couldn’t get out.

    It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the characteristics of those that did get out. Off the top of my head it would seem that some would likely have seen the handwriting on the wall sooner than others.
  19. @Anonymous
    Both Chinese and Indians tend to have huge respect for people they perceive as financially successful so the perception of Jews in those cultures is almost universally positive.

    Indians in particularly are very pro-Jew and pro-Israel because they see them as a natural ally against Pakistan and also Indians themselves are rather Jew-like in their mentality and behaviour, so I think they recognise themselves in typical Jewish character traits.

    Indians in particularly are very pro-Jew and pro-Israel because they see them as a natural ally against Pakistan

    Not so much that.

    Jews and Hindus share common interest in squeezing Whitey. That’s what really counts.

  20. @Rebel0007
    When the government, media, and schools and universities have had a repeated history of lying about everything, it is understandable why people are questioning everything that they have ever been told!

    If all of those institutions had a history f always tellng the truth, and if someone were to just question the holocaust, but nothing else, that would appear to be a very strange obsession.

    The holocaust happened. It was not limited to Jews. It has been exagerated and used as propaganda. Even holocaust deniers that have produced an 8 hour documentary on Adolf Hitler, romanticizing Hitler, inadvertently proved that it did take place, in his attempts to prove that it did not take place, by saying, of course there were piles of hair and shoes, their heads were shaved and they were given uniforms in the camps! Zyclon B was commonly used as a delousing agent at the time. The concentration camp people were not gassed with Zyclon B to kill them. It was to delouse them. Starving emaciated workers were seen in video because typhus had that effect on people.

    What were they doing in the camps in the first place? The Pritikin diet spa?

    Apparently, Germans found extermination cheaper when they were shuttled thousands of miles from the ends of the Continent, instead of being shot on the spot.

    Also, the locals were willing to give their life in order to protect their local Jews, so they had to be removed to German-only areas. Oswiecim, Brzezinska, Sobibor, Treblinka, Belzek, Majdanek, Chelmno, Sajmiste, Trostinets, Slana, you name it – only Arians as far as the eye could see.

  21. @iffen
    Leaving aside the misinformed and the uninformed, I can't really see how Holocaust deniers can't be thought of as anti-Semites.

    Leaving aside the misinformed and the uninformed, I can’t really see how Holocaust deniers can’t be thought of as anti-Semites.

    I guess you have to ask one question. Have you ever met a Holocaust deniers who didn’t hate Jews?

    The same thing applies to that other issue. Have you ever met an apologist for slavery in the US who didn’t hate blacks?

    • Replies: @Hail
    Do those who, (say), argue that only 10-20% of Europe's peasants died in the Black Plague, not 40-50%, hate Europeans and/or peasants?

    No topic I know of is subject to such institutionalized ad-hominem in the West as the "Big H" (and tangential subjects, such as "WWII").

    The guardians of the flame will say it need be so because the Big H is the central event of all Earth history, and of all Solar System history, and perhaps all history beyond our Sun for a few light years in any direction.

    , @songbird

    Have you ever met an apologist for slavery in the US who didn’t hate blacks?
     
    Muhammad Ali said he was glad his ancestors got on the boat.
    , @Tusk
    I think you and many others get this the wrong way around. What is more likely:

    People irrationally hate Jews and deny the holocaust to spite them, or, people learn about the holocaust and come to resent Jews?

    To assume that every anti-semite is pathological highlights your bias of the supposed question at hand. How can one can read history and learn of such a great hoax, that has generated billions in revnue for Jews and Israel grifted from the innocent surviving population of Germany, and not feel disgust at those who have tricked the world? Even better it is the typical mentality that even if you have been caught out lying, that you must still be kind or you are the bad person! "I know that we lied to you , but if you denounce us you're the REAL BIGOT!" It is this mentality that has doomed Conservatism in that for every cry of racism, sexism, homophobia, or whatnot, Conservatives prefer to accede by donating power to and accepting homosexuals and other such people into their ranks, violating their own positions, in order to not come across as "bad guys."

    Ones views on the Holocaust, and the truth of the history, are not predicated on liking or disliking Jews. All this does is push out anyone who doesn't grovel to Jewish power from a position of inquiry, regardless of the validity of their claims. In the end what do we have: a bunch of Judeaophiles who get to determine if Jews are lying or not; Not the most unbiased crowd.

    Tell me, you are apparently a White Australian, do you think it makes sense that 75 years after the end of WWII that Jews receive $6 million to finance a holocaust museum in Australia? Taxpayer money stolen from the son and daughters of those that fought to HELP the Jews is now being used to ensure the generations of guilt continue on the descendents of the winning side.

    This kind of mentality towards Jews/their critics is the perfect example of post hoc ergo propter hoc. "Because you dislike Jews, you deny the holocaust!" More likely that those scholars and historians who have disputed the holocaust have turned into anti-semites (if they even go so far) because they get assaulted, sued into oblivion, subject to lawfare, harassed, bombed, houses attempted to be burned down. Hard to ignore the fact that it is quite often Jewish groups that are behind the animosity towards those who question the validity of historical facts.

    Also I love your attempt at sandwhiching (I think AE mentioned that on a previous blog post) historical revisionism with racism and slavery. Because one who thinks that Jews are wily tricksters, who have expropriated billions from Germans and others to fund their apartheid state, who seem to have lied about how totally they got eviscerated for sympathy and profit is comparable to peope who wish to enslave human beings and also irrationally hate non-whites for no other reason than pathology.

    , @Nodwink
    Christopher Hitchens was intensely philosemitic, and perhaps could be described as a Jewish supremacist (he found out in his 40s that he had some Jewish ancestry). Yet according to Edward Jay Epstein (no relation AFAIK), Hitchens was a full-on denier, claiming that most European Jews had escaped to the USSR.
    , @iffen
    Have you ever met an apologist for slavery in the US who didn’t hate blacks?

    There are no "apologists" for slavery, suh.

    The "apologists for slavery" is a completely bogus, SJW, damn Yankee propaganda creation.
  22. @dfordoom

    Leaving aside the misinformed and the uninformed, I can’t really see how Holocaust deniers can’t be thought of as anti-Semites.
     
    I guess you have to ask one question. Have you ever met a Holocaust deniers who didn't hate Jews?

    The same thing applies to that other issue. Have you ever met an apologist for slavery in the US who didn't hate blacks?

    Do those who, (say), argue that only 10-20% of Europe’s peasants died in the Black Plague, not 40-50%, hate Europeans and/or peasants?

    No topic I know of is subject to such institutionalized ad-hominem in the West as the “Big H” (and tangential subjects, such as “WWII”).

    The guardians of the flame will say it need be so because the Big H is the central event of all Earth history, and of all Solar System history, and perhaps all history beyond our Sun for a few light years in any direction.

    • Replies: @dfordoom

    Do those who, (say), argue that only 10-20% of Europe’s peasants died in the Black Plague, not 40-50%, hate Europeans and/or peasants?
     
    That doesn't answer my question. Have you ever met a Holocaust denier who didn’t hate Jews?
  23. The big issue facing American Jews isn’t whether the Holocaust will still be a big deal, it’s whether a couple of generations from now there will be any such thing as an American secular Jew.

    Assimilation is the worst fate that can ever befall any ethnic/religious/cultural group. Assimilation is death. Assimilation to a culture as decadent and nihilistic as modern American culture is worse than death.

    • Replies: @Hail

    The big issue facing American Jews ... Assimilation
     
    dfordoom, I must say I've frequently heard this come up and it's worth a thought.

    Several things often conflated when it does come up, including religion vs. ethnicity (a frequent Western discourse, always the same, since the rise of the European Jews on their present historical-arc beginning about the mid 19th century).

    Any strict 'religion vs. ethnicity/ancestry" binary is now obsolete for the Jews, replaced by something like a triangular identity with nodes around "religion" (the least important node), "ancestry," and "politics" (the most important node).

    Jews, certainly the highest-prestige subgroup in the West, arguably indeed a quasi-ruling-elite class, have an enormous pull via those who are half- and even quarter-Jewish. Take the strong Jewish identity of someone like political activist professor Tim Wise, only a quarter-Jewish by ancestry; many an MSM journalist whose work suggests a strong Jewish identity also technically turn out to have one nominal-Christian parent. It would be simply foolish to say they are not Jews, as for any kind of practical purposes, they are.

    The grandchildren of two nominal-Christian recent presidents (Clinton and Trump) are being raised Jewish. It is not hard to imagine one of the Obama girls (born 1998 and 2001) marrying a Jewish man and raising their children Jewish, too. (Kamala Harris did, but too late to have children of her own.)

    Far from being a cause of Jewish decline, intermarriage and the pull of political-power is increasing Jewish numbers.

    And so it seems to me there is very little prospect of any disappearance of Jews. There is a strong prospect (inevitability) that the ancestral-stock will shift somewhat, but the, say, "60%-Ashkenazi, 25%-nonAshkenaziEuropean, 15% Other*" future Jewish ancestral stock will remain committed Jews, in large part because of the enormous prestige they get from their membership in the club, almost a sort of aristocracy by the present. (A kind of shadow-effect of the same is observable in the form of those philo-Semitic US white-Christians of lore, though among real-life white-Christians I've known I've seldom encountered the most flagrant ones you sometimes hear about.)

    The population that is really shrinking is us White-Christians -- though one never hears a sympathetic word about that, as one is likely to about Jews -- while the effective Jewish population is growing, its power, at least outwardly, looking stronger than ever.

    There may be 185 million White-Christians (including atheists) vs. (minimum?) 10 million effective Jews in the US today (by some demographic analyses, counting identity-Jews including partial-Jews), for a ratio of 18.5:1 and shrinking.

    ________

    * - Cf. Amy Chua's daughters.

  24. @Hail
    Do those who, (say), argue that only 10-20% of Europe's peasants died in the Black Plague, not 40-50%, hate Europeans and/or peasants?

    No topic I know of is subject to such institutionalized ad-hominem in the West as the "Big H" (and tangential subjects, such as "WWII").

    The guardians of the flame will say it need be so because the Big H is the central event of all Earth history, and of all Solar System history, and perhaps all history beyond our Sun for a few light years in any direction.

    Do those who, (say), argue that only 10-20% of Europe’s peasants died in the Black Plague, not 40-50%, hate Europeans and/or peasants?

    That doesn’t answer my question. Have you ever met a Holocaust denier who didn’t hate Jews?

  25. @dfordoom

    Leaving aside the misinformed and the uninformed, I can’t really see how Holocaust deniers can’t be thought of as anti-Semites.
     
    I guess you have to ask one question. Have you ever met a Holocaust deniers who didn't hate Jews?

    The same thing applies to that other issue. Have you ever met an apologist for slavery in the US who didn't hate blacks?

    Have you ever met an apologist for slavery in the US who didn’t hate blacks?

    Muhammad Ali said he was glad his ancestors got on the boat.

  26. the percentages of people…who think it is anti-Semitic “to deny the historical fact of the Holocaust”

    [Whites, 74%]

    [Blacks, 43%]

    Notice how the answer is implied in the question, a common polling trick.

    This question is really a lot more an IQ (and political-awareness) test than anything, the differing Yes response rate being whether the person picks up on this fact or not.

    In other words, a much lower Black ‘Yes’ rate simply means more Blacks did not pick up on the clue that there is a right answer here, and that being on the Right Answer side is as important in Western political culture as professing belief in Marxism in the Soviet sphere of old.

    (The higher Blacj ‘Yes’ rate certainly does not imply that there is widespread technical reading on the feasibility of the crematoria, etc., or that Black intellectuals followed the career of French revisionist Robert Faurisson or the like; the audience for the extensive Holocaust revisionist literature that has come out mainly since the 1980s has always mainly fit, roughly, into the white-libertarian subdemographic — that is, those willing to entertain truly dissident thoughts, which scares most people.)

    An analogy: If some of Pavlov’s dogs didn’t salivate at the sound of a bell, one might likewise conclude those dogs didn’t want to eat — in reality, the non-salivating dogs might have simply been deaf.

    • Replies: @songbird

    In other words, a much lower Black ‘Yes’ rate simply means more Blacks did not pick up on the clue that there is a right answer here
     
    Quite possible.

    Another possibility is that blacks realize that they aren't at the bottom of the victimhood food chain. They are not in walking-on-eggshells mode. Or they understand that it does not do them any good to anonymously bid up Jewish victimhood.

    , @Audacious Epigone
    I had the same thought, but the Holocaust is treated as something close to the defining moment in modern Western history. Do more than half of blacks really not know that questioning the Holocaust is bad?
  27. @dfordoom
    The big issue facing American Jews isn't whether the Holocaust will still be a big deal, it's whether a couple of generations from now there will be any such thing as an American secular Jew.

    Assimilation is the worst fate that can ever befall any ethnic/religious/cultural group. Assimilation is death. Assimilation to a culture as decadent and nihilistic as modern American culture is worse than death.

    The big issue facing American Jews … Assimilation

    dfordoom, I must say I’ve frequently heard this come up and it’s worth a thought.

    Several things often conflated when it does come up, including religion vs. ethnicity (a frequent Western discourse, always the same, since the rise of the European Jews on their present historical-arc beginning about the mid 19th century).

    Any strict ‘religion vs. ethnicity/ancestry” binary is now obsolete for the Jews, replaced by something like a triangular identity with nodes around “religion” (the least important node), “ancestry,” and “politics” (the most important node).

    Jews, certainly the highest-prestige subgroup in the West, arguably indeed a quasi-ruling-elite class, have an enormous pull via those who are half- and even quarter-Jewish. Take the strong Jewish identity of someone like political activist professor Tim Wise, only a quarter-Jewish by ancestry; many an MSM journalist whose work suggests a strong Jewish identity also technically turn out to have one nominal-Christian parent. It would be simply foolish to say they are not Jews, as for any kind of practical purposes, they are.

    The grandchildren of two nominal-Christian recent presidents (Clinton and Trump) are being raised Jewish. It is not hard to imagine one of the Obama girls (born 1998 and 2001) marrying a Jewish man and raising their children Jewish, too. (Kamala Harris did, but too late to have children of her own.)

    Far from being a cause of Jewish decline, intermarriage and the pull of political-power is increasing Jewish numbers.

    And so it seems to me there is very little prospect of any disappearance of Jews. There is a strong prospect (inevitability) that the ancestral-stock will shift somewhat, but the, say, “60%-Ashkenazi, 25%-nonAshkenaziEuropean, 15% Other*” future Jewish ancestral stock will remain committed Jews, in large part because of the enormous prestige they get from their membership in the club, almost a sort of aristocracy by the present. (A kind of shadow-effect of the same is observable in the form of those philo-Semitic US white-Christians of lore, though among real-life white-Christians I’ve known I’ve seldom encountered the most flagrant ones you sometimes hear about.)

    The population that is really shrinking is us White-Christians — though one never hears a sympathetic word about that, as one is likely to about Jews — while the effective Jewish population is growing, its power, at least outwardly, looking stronger than ever.

    There may be 185 million White-Christians (including atheists) vs. (minimum?) 10 million effective Jews in the US today (by some demographic analyses, counting identity-Jews including partial-Jews), for a ratio of 18.5:1 and shrinking.

    ________

    * – Cf. Amy Chua’s daughters.

    • Replies: @dfordoom

    Far from being a cause of Jewish decline, intermarriage and the pull of political-power is increasing Jewish numbers.
     
    I've heard that argument before. Are there any actual statistics to back it up?

    Your argument might (I emphasise might) apply to those at the very top of the socio-economic ladder. But not all Jews are billionaires or in positions of great power and influence.

    The important thing to note is that the modern ruling class (like all ruling classes) is defined by class interests. Their beliefs, their worldviews, their attitudes, are increasingly interchangeable. Their ethnic identities are irrelevant. They have no religious identity. When you're dealing with the movers and shakers at the very top they're all pretty much identical whether they're Jews or non-Jews. They're all globalist liberals.

    Given another couple of generations the Jewish and non-Jewish elites will be entirely indistinguishable. They already are to a large extent. Any real Jewish identity, except among a tiny handful of zealots (and they're the ones who get noticed), will be gone within two generations. There are still powerful secular Jews in the media and academia but how many really zealous Jewish dentists are there? Or zealously Zionist secular Jewish architects or accountants?

    There may be 185 million White-Christians (including atheists)
     
    Including atheists? That's like saying there are billions of Zoroastrians in the world (if you include Buddhists and Hindus). You can't be an atheist and identify as White Christian.

    Assimilation is destroying everybody's cultural identity. Whites, blacks, Jews, Muslims, Mexicans, whatever - they're all becoming an undifferentiated mass united only by materialism, consumerism, hedonism, celebrity worship and American trash culture.

    Assimilation is evil.
    , @iffen
    The blood! The blood! It's in de blood!
    , @Audacious Epigone
    A Jewish ancestral stock of 60% is not sustainable with outmarriage, though. It will continue to decline generation after generation. Outmarriage with the wider gentile population will mean partial Jews will become less and less Jewish over time. For the white Christian to Jewish ratio to shrink, we have to count people like Tim Wise (1/4 Jewish) as Jewish rather than as white Christian.

    The numbers of these partial Jews will be dwarfed by the rapidly increasing populations of Orthodox Jews. To some extent the difference is semantic, I guess.

    , @iffen
    The population that is really shrinking is us White-Christians — though one never hears a sympathetic word about that

    Perhaps because we know each other too well?
  28. @Hail

    the percentages of people...who think it is anti-Semitic “to deny the historical fact of the Holocaust”

    [Whites, 74%]

    [Blacks, 43%]
     

    Notice how the answer is implied in the question, a common polling trick.

    This question is really a lot more an IQ (and political-awareness) test than anything, the differing Yes response rate being whether the person picks up on this fact or not.

    In other words, a much lower Black 'Yes' rate simply means more Blacks did not pick up on the clue that there is a right answer here, and that being on the Right Answer side is as important in Western political culture as professing belief in Marxism in the Soviet sphere of old.

    (The higher Blacj 'Yes' rate certainly does not imply that there is widespread technical reading on the feasibility of the crematoria, etc., or that Black intellectuals followed the career of French revisionist Robert Faurisson or the like; the audience for the extensive Holocaust revisionist literature that has come out mainly since the 1980s has always mainly fit, roughly, into the white-libertarian subdemographic -- that is, those willing to entertain truly dissident thoughts, which scares most people.)

    An analogy: If some of Pavlov's dogs didn't salivate at the sound of a bell, one might likewise conclude those dogs didn't want to eat -- in reality, the non-salivating dogs might have simply been deaf.

    In other words, a much lower Black ‘Yes’ rate simply means more Blacks did not pick up on the clue that there is a right answer here

    Quite possible.

    Another possibility is that blacks realize that they aren’t at the bottom of the victimhood food chain. They are not in walking-on-eggshells mode. Or they understand that it does not do them any good to anonymously bid up Jewish victimhood.

  29. @dfordoom

    Leaving aside the misinformed and the uninformed, I can’t really see how Holocaust deniers can’t be thought of as anti-Semites.
     
    I guess you have to ask one question. Have you ever met a Holocaust deniers who didn't hate Jews?

    The same thing applies to that other issue. Have you ever met an apologist for slavery in the US who didn't hate blacks?

    I think you and many others get this the wrong way around. What is more likely:

    People irrationally hate Jews and deny the holocaust to spite them, or, people learn about the holocaust and come to resent Jews?

    To assume that every anti-semite is pathological highlights your bias of the supposed question at hand. How can one can read history and learn of such a great hoax, that has generated billions in revnue for Jews and Israel grifted from the innocent surviving population of Germany, and not feel disgust at those who have tricked the world? Even better it is the typical mentality that even if you have been caught out lying, that you must still be kind or you are the bad person! “I know that we lied to you , but if you denounce us you’re the REAL BIGOT!” It is this mentality that has doomed Conservatism in that for every cry of racism, sexism, homophobia, or whatnot, Conservatives prefer to accede by donating power to and accepting homosexuals and other such people into their ranks, violating their own positions, in order to not come across as “bad guys.”

    Ones views on the Holocaust, and the truth of the history, are not predicated on liking or disliking Jews. All this does is push out anyone who doesn’t grovel to Jewish power from a position of inquiry, regardless of the validity of their claims. In the end what do we have: a bunch of Judeaophiles who get to determine if Jews are lying or not; Not the most unbiased crowd.

    Tell me, you are apparently a White Australian, do you think it makes sense that 75 years after the end of WWII that Jews receive $6 million to finance a holocaust museum in Australia? Taxpayer money stolen from the son and daughters of those that fought to HELP the Jews is now being used to ensure the generations of guilt continue on the descendents of the winning side.

    This kind of mentality towards Jews/their critics is the perfect example of post hoc ergo propter hoc. “Because you dislike Jews, you deny the holocaust!” More likely that those scholars and historians who have disputed the holocaust have turned into anti-semites (if they even go so far) because they get assaulted, sued into oblivion, subject to lawfare, harassed, bombed, houses attempted to be burned down. Hard to ignore the fact that it is quite often Jewish groups that are behind the animosity towards those who question the validity of historical facts.

    Also I love your attempt at sandwhiching (I think AE mentioned that on a previous blog post) historical revisionism with racism and slavery. Because one who thinks that Jews are wily tricksters, who have expropriated billions from Germans and others to fund their apartheid state, who seem to have lied about how totally they got eviscerated for sympathy and profit is comparable to peope who wish to enslave human beings and also irrationally hate non-whites for no other reason than pathology.

    • Replies: @dfordoom

    People irrationally hate Jews and deny the holocaust to spite them, or, people learn about the holocaust and come to resent Jews?
     
    All the Holocaust deniers I've encountered fall into the first camp. Except they don't deny the Holocaust to spite Jews, they deny it to justify to themselves their irrational hatred for Jews.

    Hatred of Jews seems to spring from a mindset that looks for excuses. Western civilisation is going down the drain. Rather than admit that we've flushed our own civilisation down the toilet these people look for someone to blame. It's usually either the Jews, or the commies. Once you get into that kind of conspiracy theory thinking it's only a short step to the more extreme kinds such as 9/11 or Holocaust or JFK conspiracy theories.

    It's an example of the general unhealthiness of the Political Right. The Political Right no longer believes in anything except greed and blaming others.

    I don't care much about Jews one way or another but I'm saddened to see any cultural identity destroyed by our modern trash culture. As for Israel, I support the return of the West Bank to the Palestinians and the creation of an independent Palestinian state so I'm not exactly a Zionist.
  30. @Hail

    The big issue facing American Jews ... Assimilation
     
    dfordoom, I must say I've frequently heard this come up and it's worth a thought.

    Several things often conflated when it does come up, including religion vs. ethnicity (a frequent Western discourse, always the same, since the rise of the European Jews on their present historical-arc beginning about the mid 19th century).

    Any strict 'religion vs. ethnicity/ancestry" binary is now obsolete for the Jews, replaced by something like a triangular identity with nodes around "religion" (the least important node), "ancestry," and "politics" (the most important node).

    Jews, certainly the highest-prestige subgroup in the West, arguably indeed a quasi-ruling-elite class, have an enormous pull via those who are half- and even quarter-Jewish. Take the strong Jewish identity of someone like political activist professor Tim Wise, only a quarter-Jewish by ancestry; many an MSM journalist whose work suggests a strong Jewish identity also technically turn out to have one nominal-Christian parent. It would be simply foolish to say they are not Jews, as for any kind of practical purposes, they are.

    The grandchildren of two nominal-Christian recent presidents (Clinton and Trump) are being raised Jewish. It is not hard to imagine one of the Obama girls (born 1998 and 2001) marrying a Jewish man and raising their children Jewish, too. (Kamala Harris did, but too late to have children of her own.)

    Far from being a cause of Jewish decline, intermarriage and the pull of political-power is increasing Jewish numbers.

    And so it seems to me there is very little prospect of any disappearance of Jews. There is a strong prospect (inevitability) that the ancestral-stock will shift somewhat, but the, say, "60%-Ashkenazi, 25%-nonAshkenaziEuropean, 15% Other*" future Jewish ancestral stock will remain committed Jews, in large part because of the enormous prestige they get from their membership in the club, almost a sort of aristocracy by the present. (A kind of shadow-effect of the same is observable in the form of those philo-Semitic US white-Christians of lore, though among real-life white-Christians I've known I've seldom encountered the most flagrant ones you sometimes hear about.)

    The population that is really shrinking is us White-Christians -- though one never hears a sympathetic word about that, as one is likely to about Jews -- while the effective Jewish population is growing, its power, at least outwardly, looking stronger than ever.

    There may be 185 million White-Christians (including atheists) vs. (minimum?) 10 million effective Jews in the US today (by some demographic analyses, counting identity-Jews including partial-Jews), for a ratio of 18.5:1 and shrinking.

    ________

    * - Cf. Amy Chua's daughters.

    Far from being a cause of Jewish decline, intermarriage and the pull of political-power is increasing Jewish numbers.

    I’ve heard that argument before. Are there any actual statistics to back it up?

    Your argument might (I emphasise might) apply to those at the very top of the socio-economic ladder. But not all Jews are billionaires or in positions of great power and influence.

    The important thing to note is that the modern ruling class (like all ruling classes) is defined by class interests. Their beliefs, their worldviews, their attitudes, are increasingly interchangeable. Their ethnic identities are irrelevant. They have no religious identity. When you’re dealing with the movers and shakers at the very top they’re all pretty much identical whether they’re Jews or non-Jews. They’re all globalist liberals.

    Given another couple of generations the Jewish and non-Jewish elites will be entirely indistinguishable. They already are to a large extent. Any real Jewish identity, except among a tiny handful of zealots (and they’re the ones who get noticed), will be gone within two generations. There are still powerful secular Jews in the media and academia but how many really zealous Jewish dentists are there? Or zealously Zionist secular Jewish architects or accountants?

    There may be 185 million White-Christians (including atheists)

    Including atheists? That’s like saying there are billions of Zoroastrians in the world (if you include Buddhists and Hindus). You can’t be an atheist and identify as White Christian.

    Assimilation is destroying everybody’s cultural identity. Whites, blacks, Jews, Muslims, Mexicans, whatever – they’re all becoming an undifferentiated mass united only by materialism, consumerism, hedonism, celebrity worship and American trash culture.

    Assimilation is evil.

  31. @Tusk
    I think you and many others get this the wrong way around. What is more likely:

    People irrationally hate Jews and deny the holocaust to spite them, or, people learn about the holocaust and come to resent Jews?

    To assume that every anti-semite is pathological highlights your bias of the supposed question at hand. How can one can read history and learn of such a great hoax, that has generated billions in revnue for Jews and Israel grifted from the innocent surviving population of Germany, and not feel disgust at those who have tricked the world? Even better it is the typical mentality that even if you have been caught out lying, that you must still be kind or you are the bad person! "I know that we lied to you , but if you denounce us you're the REAL BIGOT!" It is this mentality that has doomed Conservatism in that for every cry of racism, sexism, homophobia, or whatnot, Conservatives prefer to accede by donating power to and accepting homosexuals and other such people into their ranks, violating their own positions, in order to not come across as "bad guys."

    Ones views on the Holocaust, and the truth of the history, are not predicated on liking or disliking Jews. All this does is push out anyone who doesn't grovel to Jewish power from a position of inquiry, regardless of the validity of their claims. In the end what do we have: a bunch of Judeaophiles who get to determine if Jews are lying or not; Not the most unbiased crowd.

    Tell me, you are apparently a White Australian, do you think it makes sense that 75 years after the end of WWII that Jews receive $6 million to finance a holocaust museum in Australia? Taxpayer money stolen from the son and daughters of those that fought to HELP the Jews is now being used to ensure the generations of guilt continue on the descendents of the winning side.

    This kind of mentality towards Jews/their critics is the perfect example of post hoc ergo propter hoc. "Because you dislike Jews, you deny the holocaust!" More likely that those scholars and historians who have disputed the holocaust have turned into anti-semites (if they even go so far) because they get assaulted, sued into oblivion, subject to lawfare, harassed, bombed, houses attempted to be burned down. Hard to ignore the fact that it is quite often Jewish groups that are behind the animosity towards those who question the validity of historical facts.

    Also I love your attempt at sandwhiching (I think AE mentioned that on a previous blog post) historical revisionism with racism and slavery. Because one who thinks that Jews are wily tricksters, who have expropriated billions from Germans and others to fund their apartheid state, who seem to have lied about how totally they got eviscerated for sympathy and profit is comparable to peope who wish to enslave human beings and also irrationally hate non-whites for no other reason than pathology.

    People irrationally hate Jews and deny the holocaust to spite them, or, people learn about the holocaust and come to resent Jews?

    All the Holocaust deniers I’ve encountered fall into the first camp. Except they don’t deny the Holocaust to spite Jews, they deny it to justify to themselves their irrational hatred for Jews.

    Hatred of Jews seems to spring from a mindset that looks for excuses. Western civilisation is going down the drain. Rather than admit that we’ve flushed our own civilisation down the toilet these people look for someone to blame. It’s usually either the Jews, or the commies. Once you get into that kind of conspiracy theory thinking it’s only a short step to the more extreme kinds such as 9/11 or Holocaust or JFK conspiracy theories.

    It’s an example of the general unhealthiness of the Political Right. The Political Right no longer believes in anything except greed and blaming others.

    I don’t care much about Jews one way or another but I’m saddened to see any cultural identity destroyed by our modern trash culture. As for Israel, I support the return of the West Bank to the Palestinians and the creation of an independent Palestinian state so I’m not exactly a Zionist.

    • Replies: @Tusk
    Well you've just engaged in circular logic. They're holocaust deniers because they hate Jews, and holocaust deniers are all Jews haters, and we know this because they all hate Jews
    , @Daniel.I
    You're cucked beyond words
  32. @dfordoom

    People irrationally hate Jews and deny the holocaust to spite them, or, people learn about the holocaust and come to resent Jews?
     
    All the Holocaust deniers I've encountered fall into the first camp. Except they don't deny the Holocaust to spite Jews, they deny it to justify to themselves their irrational hatred for Jews.

    Hatred of Jews seems to spring from a mindset that looks for excuses. Western civilisation is going down the drain. Rather than admit that we've flushed our own civilisation down the toilet these people look for someone to blame. It's usually either the Jews, or the commies. Once you get into that kind of conspiracy theory thinking it's only a short step to the more extreme kinds such as 9/11 or Holocaust or JFK conspiracy theories.

    It's an example of the general unhealthiness of the Political Right. The Political Right no longer believes in anything except greed and blaming others.

    I don't care much about Jews one way or another but I'm saddened to see any cultural identity destroyed by our modern trash culture. As for Israel, I support the return of the West Bank to the Palestinians and the creation of an independent Palestinian state so I'm not exactly a Zionist.

    Well you’ve just engaged in circular logic. They’re holocaust deniers because they hate Jews, and holocaust deniers are all Jews haters, and we know this because they all hate Jews

  33. Fun fact black people overestimate America’s Jewish population about as bad as whites do with blacks.

  34. @Gandydancer
    "Leaving aside the misinformed and the uninformed, I can’t really see how Holocaust deniers can’t be thought of as anti-Semites."

    Those aren't disjunct groups. It's easily observed that many of the misinformed are determinedly so because they are anti-Semites.

    It’s easily observed that many of the misinformed are determinedly so

    True enough, but if you waste enough time reading the comments at TUR it is easy enough to observe some that are intellectually sound. I have only two explanations for their participation. One is political, which means that they know the Holocaust occurred, but are horrified by seeing the political benefits accruing from the Holocaust industry and believe denial is the best combative tactic. The other explanation is whatever the mechanism is that allows otherwise normal people to go gaga over some ideology like Stalinism.

    • Replies: @Gandydancer
    I cannot recall having seen any Holocaust deniers who are intellectually sound.

    Unless you count military aid to Israel "the Holocaust industry" doesn't amount to much. If you're "horrified" by something so trivial as some Australian tax money going to a Holocaust museum... well it's of a piece with thinking that a Jewish conspiracy runs the world, but not in a good way.
  35. @dfordoom

    People irrationally hate Jews and deny the holocaust to spite them, or, people learn about the holocaust and come to resent Jews?
     
    All the Holocaust deniers I've encountered fall into the first camp. Except they don't deny the Holocaust to spite Jews, they deny it to justify to themselves their irrational hatred for Jews.

    Hatred of Jews seems to spring from a mindset that looks for excuses. Western civilisation is going down the drain. Rather than admit that we've flushed our own civilisation down the toilet these people look for someone to blame. It's usually either the Jews, or the commies. Once you get into that kind of conspiracy theory thinking it's only a short step to the more extreme kinds such as 9/11 or Holocaust or JFK conspiracy theories.

    It's an example of the general unhealthiness of the Political Right. The Political Right no longer believes in anything except greed and blaming others.

    I don't care much about Jews one way or another but I'm saddened to see any cultural identity destroyed by our modern trash culture. As for Israel, I support the return of the West Bank to the Palestinians and the creation of an independent Palestinian state so I'm not exactly a Zionist.

    You’re cucked beyond words

  36. @Hail

    The big issue facing American Jews ... Assimilation
     
    dfordoom, I must say I've frequently heard this come up and it's worth a thought.

    Several things often conflated when it does come up, including religion vs. ethnicity (a frequent Western discourse, always the same, since the rise of the European Jews on their present historical-arc beginning about the mid 19th century).

    Any strict 'religion vs. ethnicity/ancestry" binary is now obsolete for the Jews, replaced by something like a triangular identity with nodes around "religion" (the least important node), "ancestry," and "politics" (the most important node).

    Jews, certainly the highest-prestige subgroup in the West, arguably indeed a quasi-ruling-elite class, have an enormous pull via those who are half- and even quarter-Jewish. Take the strong Jewish identity of someone like political activist professor Tim Wise, only a quarter-Jewish by ancestry; many an MSM journalist whose work suggests a strong Jewish identity also technically turn out to have one nominal-Christian parent. It would be simply foolish to say they are not Jews, as for any kind of practical purposes, they are.

    The grandchildren of two nominal-Christian recent presidents (Clinton and Trump) are being raised Jewish. It is not hard to imagine one of the Obama girls (born 1998 and 2001) marrying a Jewish man and raising their children Jewish, too. (Kamala Harris did, but too late to have children of her own.)

    Far from being a cause of Jewish decline, intermarriage and the pull of political-power is increasing Jewish numbers.

    And so it seems to me there is very little prospect of any disappearance of Jews. There is a strong prospect (inevitability) that the ancestral-stock will shift somewhat, but the, say, "60%-Ashkenazi, 25%-nonAshkenaziEuropean, 15% Other*" future Jewish ancestral stock will remain committed Jews, in large part because of the enormous prestige they get from their membership in the club, almost a sort of aristocracy by the present. (A kind of shadow-effect of the same is observable in the form of those philo-Semitic US white-Christians of lore, though among real-life white-Christians I've known I've seldom encountered the most flagrant ones you sometimes hear about.)

    The population that is really shrinking is us White-Christians -- though one never hears a sympathetic word about that, as one is likely to about Jews -- while the effective Jewish population is growing, its power, at least outwardly, looking stronger than ever.

    There may be 185 million White-Christians (including atheists) vs. (minimum?) 10 million effective Jews in the US today (by some demographic analyses, counting identity-Jews including partial-Jews), for a ratio of 18.5:1 and shrinking.

    ________

    * - Cf. Amy Chua's daughters.

    The blood! The blood! It’s in de blood!

  37. @SFG
    Bottom line, a lot couldn't get out.

    The restricted immigration also probably had a huge role in America's golden age in the 50s and early 60s as everyone was starting to assimilate. This is one of those cases where American and Jewish interests diverge.

    Bottom line, a lot couldn’t get out.

    It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the characteristics of those that did get out. Off the top of my head it would seem that some would likely have seen the handwriting on the wall sooner than others.

  38. @dfordoom

    Leaving aside the misinformed and the uninformed, I can’t really see how Holocaust deniers can’t be thought of as anti-Semites.
     
    I guess you have to ask one question. Have you ever met a Holocaust deniers who didn't hate Jews?

    The same thing applies to that other issue. Have you ever met an apologist for slavery in the US who didn't hate blacks?

    Christopher Hitchens was intensely philosemitic, and perhaps could be described as a Jewish supremacist (he found out in his 40s that he had some Jewish ancestry). Yet according to Edward Jay Epstein (no relation AFAIK), Hitchens was a full-on denier, claiming that most European Jews had escaped to the USSR.

  39. @dfordoom

    Leaving aside the misinformed and the uninformed, I can’t really see how Holocaust deniers can’t be thought of as anti-Semites.
     
    I guess you have to ask one question. Have you ever met a Holocaust deniers who didn't hate Jews?

    The same thing applies to that other issue. Have you ever met an apologist for slavery in the US who didn't hate blacks?

    Have you ever met an apologist for slavery in the US who didn’t hate blacks?

    There are no “apologists” for slavery, suh.

    The “apologists for slavery” is a completely bogus, SJW, damn Yankee propaganda creation.

  40. @iffen
    It’s easily observed that many of the misinformed are determinedly so

    True enough, but if you waste enough time reading the comments at TUR it is easy enough to observe some that are intellectually sound. I have only two explanations for their participation. One is political, which means that they know the Holocaust occurred, but are horrified by seeing the political benefits accruing from the Holocaust industry and believe denial is the best combative tactic. The other explanation is whatever the mechanism is that allows otherwise normal people to go gaga over some ideology like Stalinism.

    I cannot recall having seen any Holocaust deniers who are intellectually sound.

    Unless you count military aid to Israel “the Holocaust industry” doesn’t amount to much. If you’re “horrified” by something so trivial as some Australian tax money going to a Holocaust museum… well it’s of a piece with thinking that a Jewish conspiracy runs the world, but not in a good way.

    • Replies: @iffen
    Unless you count military aid to Israel “the Holocaust industry” doesn’t amount to much.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Holocaust_memorials_and_museums
  41. @Gandydancer
    I cannot recall having seen any Holocaust deniers who are intellectually sound.

    Unless you count military aid to Israel "the Holocaust industry" doesn't amount to much. If you're "horrified" by something so trivial as some Australian tax money going to a Holocaust museum... well it's of a piece with thinking that a Jewish conspiracy runs the world, but not in a good way.

    Unless you count military aid to Israel “the Holocaust industry” doesn’t amount to much.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Holocaust_memorials_and_museums

  42. @Arclight
    I think in the future the Diverse will regard Jews as uber whites and therefore not worthy of any sympathy for whatever their ancestors went through.

    Given the outsized role Jews have played in the financial and intellectual development of the woke left I would say that it would be amusing to watch the coming food fight except that the rest of us will suffer too.

    I think it behooves everyone to start thinking about the political landscape once Jews are regarded as especially privileged whites. That time is coming.

    • Replies: @dfordoom

    I think it behooves everyone to start thinking about the political landscape once Jews are regarded as especially privileged whites.
     
    What people need to understand is that there really is a small minority group that has gained almost absolute power. That group is not Jews, it is the LGBT lobby.

    The Buttigieg candidacy is a test run to see if people are ready yet to openly acknowledge and accept LGBT supremacy. If not then the propaganda will intensify. If he fails to get the nomination the narrative will be that we still have a long way to go to overcome homophobia/transphobia. We must all try harder. The objective will be to ensure that an LGBT candidate makes it to the White House in 2024.
  43. @anonymous
    Anti-Whites denounce self preference and preservation ('racism'), but for Whites only. The 90% of the world we call minorities is given this Privilege.

    Look at a map and highlight every country/area that 'needs diversity', mass immigration. It's only wherever White people are.

    Diversity is a strength really means White people are a problem.

    Non-White Privilege? Borders.

    When does anti-White 'diversity' policy end? If not at 10% of the world population as now, then when? Five percent? Zero percent?

    Whites are still being blamed in Zimbabwe. It’ll be zero percent unless whites demand otherwise.

  44. @iffen
    Persistent Protocols

    You are working hard to make sure that the SJW outrage mobs come for you first.

    I thought mocking the protocols was a good thing to do!

  45. @Audacious Epigone
    I think it behooves everyone to start thinking about the political landscape once Jews are regarded as especially privileged whites. That time is coming.

    I think it behooves everyone to start thinking about the political landscape once Jews are regarded as especially privileged whites.

    What people need to understand is that there really is a small minority group that has gained almost absolute power. That group is not Jews, it is the LGBT lobby.

    The Buttigieg candidacy is a test run to see if people are ready yet to openly acknowledge and accept LGBT supremacy. If not then the propaganda will intensify. If he fails to get the nomination the narrative will be that we still have a long way to go to overcome homophobia/transphobia. We must all try harder. The objective will be to ensure that an LGBT candidate makes it to the White House in 2024.

  46. @Hail

    the percentages of people...who think it is anti-Semitic “to deny the historical fact of the Holocaust”

    [Whites, 74%]

    [Blacks, 43%]
     

    Notice how the answer is implied in the question, a common polling trick.

    This question is really a lot more an IQ (and political-awareness) test than anything, the differing Yes response rate being whether the person picks up on this fact or not.

    In other words, a much lower Black 'Yes' rate simply means more Blacks did not pick up on the clue that there is a right answer here, and that being on the Right Answer side is as important in Western political culture as professing belief in Marxism in the Soviet sphere of old.

    (The higher Blacj 'Yes' rate certainly does not imply that there is widespread technical reading on the feasibility of the crematoria, etc., or that Black intellectuals followed the career of French revisionist Robert Faurisson or the like; the audience for the extensive Holocaust revisionist literature that has come out mainly since the 1980s has always mainly fit, roughly, into the white-libertarian subdemographic -- that is, those willing to entertain truly dissident thoughts, which scares most people.)

    An analogy: If some of Pavlov's dogs didn't salivate at the sound of a bell, one might likewise conclude those dogs didn't want to eat -- in reality, the non-salivating dogs might have simply been deaf.

    I had the same thought, but the Holocaust is treated as something close to the defining moment in modern Western history. Do more than half of blacks really not know that questioning the Holocaust is bad?

    • Replies: @iffen
    Keep chipping away at that bubble, you'll break out eventually.
  47. @Hail

    The big issue facing American Jews ... Assimilation
     
    dfordoom, I must say I've frequently heard this come up and it's worth a thought.

    Several things often conflated when it does come up, including religion vs. ethnicity (a frequent Western discourse, always the same, since the rise of the European Jews on their present historical-arc beginning about the mid 19th century).

    Any strict 'religion vs. ethnicity/ancestry" binary is now obsolete for the Jews, replaced by something like a triangular identity with nodes around "religion" (the least important node), "ancestry," and "politics" (the most important node).

    Jews, certainly the highest-prestige subgroup in the West, arguably indeed a quasi-ruling-elite class, have an enormous pull via those who are half- and even quarter-Jewish. Take the strong Jewish identity of someone like political activist professor Tim Wise, only a quarter-Jewish by ancestry; many an MSM journalist whose work suggests a strong Jewish identity also technically turn out to have one nominal-Christian parent. It would be simply foolish to say they are not Jews, as for any kind of practical purposes, they are.

    The grandchildren of two nominal-Christian recent presidents (Clinton and Trump) are being raised Jewish. It is not hard to imagine one of the Obama girls (born 1998 and 2001) marrying a Jewish man and raising their children Jewish, too. (Kamala Harris did, but too late to have children of her own.)

    Far from being a cause of Jewish decline, intermarriage and the pull of political-power is increasing Jewish numbers.

    And so it seems to me there is very little prospect of any disappearance of Jews. There is a strong prospect (inevitability) that the ancestral-stock will shift somewhat, but the, say, "60%-Ashkenazi, 25%-nonAshkenaziEuropean, 15% Other*" future Jewish ancestral stock will remain committed Jews, in large part because of the enormous prestige they get from their membership in the club, almost a sort of aristocracy by the present. (A kind of shadow-effect of the same is observable in the form of those philo-Semitic US white-Christians of lore, though among real-life white-Christians I've known I've seldom encountered the most flagrant ones you sometimes hear about.)

    The population that is really shrinking is us White-Christians -- though one never hears a sympathetic word about that, as one is likely to about Jews -- while the effective Jewish population is growing, its power, at least outwardly, looking stronger than ever.

    There may be 185 million White-Christians (including atheists) vs. (minimum?) 10 million effective Jews in the US today (by some demographic analyses, counting identity-Jews including partial-Jews), for a ratio of 18.5:1 and shrinking.

    ________

    * - Cf. Amy Chua's daughters.

    A Jewish ancestral stock of 60% is not sustainable with outmarriage, though. It will continue to decline generation after generation. Outmarriage with the wider gentile population will mean partial Jews will become less and less Jewish over time. For the white Christian to Jewish ratio to shrink, we have to count people like Tim Wise (1/4 Jewish) as Jewish rather than as white Christian.

    The numbers of these partial Jews will be dwarfed by the rapidly increasing populations of Orthodox Jews. To some extent the difference is semantic, I guess.

  48. @Audacious Epigone
    I had the same thought, but the Holocaust is treated as something close to the defining moment in modern Western history. Do more than half of blacks really not know that questioning the Holocaust is bad?

    Keep chipping away at that bubble, you’ll break out eventually.

  49. @Hail

    The big issue facing American Jews ... Assimilation
     
    dfordoom, I must say I've frequently heard this come up and it's worth a thought.

    Several things often conflated when it does come up, including religion vs. ethnicity (a frequent Western discourse, always the same, since the rise of the European Jews on their present historical-arc beginning about the mid 19th century).

    Any strict 'religion vs. ethnicity/ancestry" binary is now obsolete for the Jews, replaced by something like a triangular identity with nodes around "religion" (the least important node), "ancestry," and "politics" (the most important node).

    Jews, certainly the highest-prestige subgroup in the West, arguably indeed a quasi-ruling-elite class, have an enormous pull via those who are half- and even quarter-Jewish. Take the strong Jewish identity of someone like political activist professor Tim Wise, only a quarter-Jewish by ancestry; many an MSM journalist whose work suggests a strong Jewish identity also technically turn out to have one nominal-Christian parent. It would be simply foolish to say they are not Jews, as for any kind of practical purposes, they are.

    The grandchildren of two nominal-Christian recent presidents (Clinton and Trump) are being raised Jewish. It is not hard to imagine one of the Obama girls (born 1998 and 2001) marrying a Jewish man and raising their children Jewish, too. (Kamala Harris did, but too late to have children of her own.)

    Far from being a cause of Jewish decline, intermarriage and the pull of political-power is increasing Jewish numbers.

    And so it seems to me there is very little prospect of any disappearance of Jews. There is a strong prospect (inevitability) that the ancestral-stock will shift somewhat, but the, say, "60%-Ashkenazi, 25%-nonAshkenaziEuropean, 15% Other*" future Jewish ancestral stock will remain committed Jews, in large part because of the enormous prestige they get from their membership in the club, almost a sort of aristocracy by the present. (A kind of shadow-effect of the same is observable in the form of those philo-Semitic US white-Christians of lore, though among real-life white-Christians I've known I've seldom encountered the most flagrant ones you sometimes hear about.)

    The population that is really shrinking is us White-Christians -- though one never hears a sympathetic word about that, as one is likely to about Jews -- while the effective Jewish population is growing, its power, at least outwardly, looking stronger than ever.

    There may be 185 million White-Christians (including atheists) vs. (minimum?) 10 million effective Jews in the US today (by some demographic analyses, counting identity-Jews including partial-Jews), for a ratio of 18.5:1 and shrinking.

    ________

    * - Cf. Amy Chua's daughters.

    The population that is really shrinking is us White-Christians — though one never hears a sympathetic word about that

    Perhaps because we know each other too well?

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