The Unz Review • An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersAudacious Epigone Blog
You Must Not Replace You!
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

Replicability crisis alert:

This compilation is shockingly homogeneous for a woke top news site to have put together. Probably just an oversight that such a mendaciously anti-natalist video features whites exclusively. Don’t worry about it. Just keep leaning in, beckies. And remember–you only live once!

But I digress. Regarding the replicability issue, the following graph compares the self-reported happiness of unmarried single women without children to the self-reported happiness of married mothers with children:

What a blowout. Married women with children are nearly twice as likely to report being “very happy” and about half as likely to report being “not too happy” as unmarried women without children are.

This is some combination of sinister and stunning sloppiness. I smell sulfur as I type, so I suspect it’s mostly the former.

Parenthetically, the above includes all women since that’s presumably what the behavioral scientist did but the results are nearly identical if limited to non-Hispanic whites.

Relatedly, the percentage of unmarried single women without children who report experiencing poor mental health (defined as “stress, depression, and problems with emotions”) in the last month is 60%. For married mothers with kids, it’s just 45%.

GSS variables used: SEX(2), HAPPY, MNTLHLTH(0)(1-30), MARITAL(1)(5), CHILDS(0)(1-8), YEAR(2000-2018)

 
• Category: Culture/Society, Ideology, Science • Tags: Children, Feminism, GSS 
Hide 159 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
  1. Anonymous[356] • Disclaimer says:

    They should be happy. They can’t be fired, no matter how much time they take off from work in addition to their PTO & pregnancy leave. They can discriminate wantonly, hiring only or mostly their fellow frequently absentee moms. They don’t have to meet quotas; they’ll be kept on anyway. The government gives them money via tax credits to boost up the already doubled income in their dual-earner households. They are always the ones on vacation or indulging in other expensive activities, but yet, they are the constant source of empathy for all of their “sacrifices” for family. They need more and more and more money and privileges from government to make up for the money they spend on kids (and mom pampering, accommodated by fawning grandparent babysitters). They are never blamed when things go wrong with the kids that they (or low-wage daycare workers) raised, even when their kids shoot up schools.

  2. How many kids do you have, Audie?

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Truth

    Three. Nothing makes me happier than they do.

    Replies: @Oblivionrecurs, @Twinkie, @Truth, @TomSchmidt, @Big Yikes, @Anon

    , @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    @Truth

    And how many do you have?

    Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike, @Truth

  3. @Truth
    How many kids do you have, Audie?

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    Three. Nothing makes me happier than they do.

    • Replies: @Oblivionrecurs
    @Audacious Epigone

    Imagine how miserable millennials are going to be when they die old and alone

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @prime noticer

    , @Twinkie
    @Audacious Epigone


    Three. Nothing makes me happier than they do.
     
    Have another one. I mentioned this before, but three under age five to six is absolutely the most difficult, but then it gets better, much better after that.

    In fact, have more after the next one - you will eventually have built-in babysitters with the older children. Nowadays my oldest child makes breakfast and lunch for the rest of the children. My second oldest reviews much of the homeschooling work the little ones do. It's getting embarrassingly easy for my wife and me (except for shuttling the children to the various athletic and extracurricular activities - we have something for somebody everyday).

    You should have so many children that there are cliques among the children. It's pretty fun and funny (for me anyway).

    Not only is my wife very fulfilled and happy, because of our children, we know so many mothers in our social circle who are breaming and beaming with joy, because of their children.

    On the other hand, we know two childless couples and one single woman pretty well. The childless couples are always traveling and doing hobbies (and spoiling their pets to ridiculous degrees - one of the couples has a dog with its own bedroom, bed, and stairs to the said bed, etc.). We have noted that the two couples have grown apart and seemingly constantly annoyed with each other. They have become like roommates. Frankly, they look a bit sad. And the single woman is absolutely desperate, yet extremely picky. She turns down every guy she meets, but is always complaining about lack of men. She is freezing her eggs.

    Of course, one thing I should note is that having "children = happiness" may be both causal and self-selection. I do think that, on average, having children makes women happier. On other hand, there are some women who are wired wrongly and become absolutely miserable with taking care of even one child. Some women are meant to be that childless shrew of an aunt, I guess. :)

    Replies: @Logan, @Rosie, @Mark G., @Budd Dwyer, @Audacious Epigone, @Almost Missouri, @SFG

    , @Truth
    @Audacious Epigone

    Well that's excellent, good for you. And color me a bit surprised.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Johann Ricke

    , @TomSchmidt
    @Audacious Epigone

    Congratulations. "The birth of a child is a sure sign that God hasn't given up on the world." And all that.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    , @Big Yikes
    @Audacious Epigone

    Well you're certainly not going to be replaced :D

    , @Anon
    @Audacious Epigone

    If children are you greatest joy, it seems you have a quite dull life. I don't recall Marc Aurelius writing similar lumpenprole sancta-simplicitas confessions. No surprise you are griping anonymously on the web about random imagined enemies - it must be that massive happiness.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Audacious Epigone

  4. 216 says:

    With all the propaganda dedicated to shaming (middle class white women) people out of procreation, would it ever be considered acceptable to tell the lower class to stop having kids they can’t afford.

    “It’s OK to be white”

    “Can’t feed, don’t breed”

    We have real time evidence to the contrary. E. Macron condemned high fertility rates in the Sahel. He was immidiately called on the carpet.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @216

    would it ever be considered acceptable to tell the lower class to stop having kids


    No, it will never be acceptable. Entertaining the possibility that people such as you are going to be replaced gives me the same flawed schadenfreude I felt when watching the Reginald Denny assault during the LA riots. I thought to myself, “Well, at least the people that they will be kicking in the head in the future will be black.”

    , @Anonymous
    @216

    If he really believes it, why doesn’t Macron cut the pay-per-birth benefits? Benefits in France likely increase with each additional birth in a household that stays under the earned-income limits, just like they do in the USA. He doesn’t do it because of the flow of cheap labor for dual-high-earner parents that this welfare rigging of the labor market provides. The system hurts lots of citizens, particularly those with one earned-only income stream and no kids under 18.

    The immigrant servants of the wealthy dual earners game the system in a different way, mostly with male breadwinners who stay under the programs’ income limits and big families with pooled resources.

    Few of the working women married to high-earning men produce the amount of value it takes to get a salary high enough to ensure that the NannyCam-surveilled babysitters or low-wage daycare workers who raise their kids have high enough pay to cover the rent for a tiny apartment. Married working women mostly just concentrate wealth while retaining above-firing, absenteeism-friendly jobs, where no parent can be fired for prolonged and frequent periods of time off in excess of her Paid Time Off and pregnancy leave.

    The dual-earner households and the welfare-rigged labor market of the fake-feminist era are mostly a wealth-redistribution program to make sure that people with kids under 18 take....it....all.

    It’s not working out too well in the USA, where 95 million citizens (16 to 65) are out of the labor force, another 7 million or so file new applications for Unemployment Compensation each month, and half of all “employed” persons just work part time. Most of them are moms—either married moms supplementing spousal income in low-stress voted-best-for-moms jobs with wanton absenteeism laxity for moms or single moms, making sure to stay under the earned-income limits for welfare programs that cover their rent, their food and their electricity bills, with monthly cash assistance and up to $6,431 in refundable child tax credits on top.

    Amazingly, the greedy and discriminatory weath concentration in crony-parent dual-earner households is not enough for the take-it-all / have-it-all married moms.

    They must have non-refundable child tax credits on top of it to finance one more excused, two-week vacation getaway while at-their-beck-and-call grandparents keep their kids. Of course, they’re happy. They’re happy in retiremement, too, since they sacrificed nothing in the way of multiple large and small luxuries or time off to build up what amounts to 4 streams of retirement income. But the vast majority of single, childless citizens and single citizens with kids over 18, living on earned-only income from one stream, cannot afford anything (even rent). Nope, it does not lead to happiness.

    Replies: @216

  5. Looked at men?

    It would be interesting to help resolve the MGTOW/PUA debate, no?

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @SFG

    Kind of, but it could stand to be more focused.

    Replies: @SFG

  6. I’ve noticed an usually large explosions in those expressing a disgust for children and a justification of the childless movement in the last several months, particularly with the release of the report we only have 12 years to stop catastrophic climate change (i’d love a study of which demographic is most susceptible to this)

    The rate of which people are emulating the same sentiment, is very reminiscent of the initial stages of the SJW privilege culture movement that began in 2014.

    The fertility rate will increasingly decline

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Oblivionrecurs


    ... particularly with the release of the report we only have 12 years to stop catastrophic climate change...
     
    You can't take all this stuff so seriously. Come on, look at the source:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHjgDHTeCto

    Replies: @Cloudbuster, @UrbaneFrancoOntarian, @Oblivionrecurs

    , @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    @Oblivionrecurs

    Agreed. This whole "environmentalist" "movement" seemed to pop up out of nowhere. Now the whole narrative is about the Greens rising in Europe. I suspect that it is not an organic movement; it was created as a cover for the rising right in Europe. It's also a great way to get young women interested in voting, who might not otherwise vote. Don't get me wrong - the people are sincere (idiots)... but the movement itself is being forced by tptb.

    As for the childfree movement, I can't really say I've heard a huge uptick in people justifying their childfree lifestyle. Everyone over 30 at work has 2-3 kids and talks about them all the time. That said, I live in somewhat of a "backwater " (AKA a healthy, natural place) so I'm not too connected to the hip urban zeitgeist. Would not surprise me though, you see almost no children in downtown Toronto.

    As far as young women, yeah I guess I know a whole bunch that are under 25 that really seem to pathologically hate kids. They bitch on Twitter about how they never want kids, how they would get an abortion, etc. One thing I will say is that this does not uniquely affect white women - this affects all races raised in the West.

    Oh well - these childless white women only have so long until they're made into Subcontinental sex slaves. Pity.

    Replies: @Mr. Rational

  7. @Audacious Epigone
    @Truth

    Three. Nothing makes me happier than they do.

    Replies: @Oblivionrecurs, @Twinkie, @Truth, @TomSchmidt, @Big Yikes, @Anon

    Imagine how miserable millennials are going to be when they die old and alone

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Oblivionrecurs

    Yes, it's shameful that so many of these women start thinking about the last five decades of their lives for the first time when they hit 32. Going to work, drink, travel the world, and binge watch Netflix when you're 45? 55? 65? That's a long, long time to be invisible.

    Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian, @Oblivionrecurs

    , @prime noticer
    @Oblivionrecurs

    "Imagine how miserable millennials are going to be when they die old and alone"

    they won't be alone. they'll be surrounded by cheerful vibrants.

    rooting for their death.

    Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

  8. @Audacious Epigone
    @Truth

    Three. Nothing makes me happier than they do.

    Replies: @Oblivionrecurs, @Twinkie, @Truth, @TomSchmidt, @Big Yikes, @Anon

    Three. Nothing makes me happier than they do.

    Have another one. I mentioned this before, but three under age five to six is absolutely the most difficult, but then it gets better, much better after that.

    In fact, have more after the next one – you will eventually have built-in babysitters with the older children. Nowadays my oldest child makes breakfast and lunch for the rest of the children. My second oldest reviews much of the homeschooling work the little ones do. It’s getting embarrassingly easy for my wife and me (except for shuttling the children to the various athletic and extracurricular activities – we have something for somebody everyday).

    You should have so many children that there are cliques among the children. It’s pretty fun and funny (for me anyway).

    Not only is my wife very fulfilled and happy, because of our children, we know so many mothers in our social circle who are breaming and beaming with joy, because of their children.

    On the other hand, we know two childless couples and one single woman pretty well. The childless couples are always traveling and doing hobbies (and spoiling their pets to ridiculous degrees – one of the couples has a dog with its own bedroom, bed, and stairs to the said bed, etc.). We have noted that the two couples have grown apart and seemingly constantly annoyed with each other. They have become like roommates. Frankly, they look a bit sad. And the single woman is absolutely desperate, yet extremely picky. She turns down every guy she meets, but is always complaining about lack of men. She is freezing her eggs.

    Of course, one thing I should note is that having “children = happiness” may be both causal and self-selection. I do think that, on average, having children makes women happier. On other hand, there are some women who are wired wrongly and become absolutely miserable with taking care of even one child. Some women are meant to be that childless shrew of an aunt, I guess. 🙂

    • Replies: @Logan
    @Twinkie

    My second daughter was born when the first was 14. Not intentionally, my wife had several miscarriages after the first and we thought it wasn't meant to be.

    The little one had two mommies and absolutely thrived on it. Big sister was ferociously protective.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @Twinkie

    , @Rosie
    @Twinkie


    Have another one. I mentioned this before, but three under age five to six is absolutely the most difficult, but then it gets better, much better after that.
     
    Very true.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Mark G.
    @Twinkie

    Many older single women fall into that category of women who complain about lack of men while turning down every guy they meet. As I've become older I've realized that no one is perfect and you can still have enjoyable relationships, romantic and otherwise, with imperfect people. Once I realized that, my happiness level increased.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @MikeatMikedotMike, @Anon

    , @Budd Dwyer
    @Twinkie


    On the other hand, we know two childless couples and one single woman pretty well. The childless couples are always traveling and doing hobbies (and spoiling their pets to ridiculous degrees – one of the couples has a dog with its own bedroom, bed, and stairs to the said bed, etc.). We have noted that the two couples have grown apart and seemingly constantly annoyed with each other. They have become like roommates. Frankly, they look a bit sad. And the single woman is absolutely desperate, yet extremely picky. She turns down every guy she meets, but is always complaining about lack of men. She is freezing her eggs.
     
    I would’ve liked to have had eight kids. My wife and I are practicing Catholics and believe the purpose of marriage is to have children. I was engaged to my wife— hate having to say it but it was the first marriage for both of us— when she got uterine cancer which required a hysterectomy. It devastated her and me that we could never have children. We accepted that God had a reason for it. We got married in the Church three months later (after pre-Cana, planning, etc.) and have been married for many years now. Years ago we talked about adoption but it is not easy or cheap. So, we are childless. It makes me sad writing those words.

    Chesterton and PJB never had children and I imagine for them, like me, it was never their choice but God’s.

    Replies: @dvorak, @Twinkie, @MarkinPNW

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @Twinkie

    If you don't mind answering, how many do you have? It has unquestionably gotten much easier as my oldest has gotten older--he already helps a lot with the youngest. There are now three other families with children on our street with whom we're basically on an open door policy with during the day. My older two are already roaming, something I was afraid might not happen. Hopefully at least in some places we're starting to turn the corner from the helicoptering of the 90s and 2000s.

    Until our fertility window closes, nothing is final. I can imagine in ten or twenty years regretting only having three. It's hard to imagine regretting that I had a fourth, though!

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Almost Missouri
    @Twinkie


    "She is freezing her eggs."
     
    Sounds like her eggs—along with her other feminine attributes—are already pretty much frozen.
    , @SFG
    @Twinkie

    The Christian (or at least Catholic and Orthodox) tradition has always had roles for men and women who didn't want to reproduce, and the contemplative life was always well respected at least through the Middle Ages. That was more communal, though.

    I suspect a lot of these feminist journalists would have become nuns in another era. We're still reading Hildegard von Bingen centuries later, albeit not as much as we did. But...well, if the religion of the era is corrupt (and social justice appeals to many religious impulses such as a greater sense of meaning, a desire to help the oppressed, and a desire to persecute evildoers), its devotees will follow corrupt ends.

  9. that odor you smelled was gefilte fish, not sulfur.

  10. @Audacious Epigone
    @Truth

    Three. Nothing makes me happier than they do.

    Replies: @Oblivionrecurs, @Twinkie, @Truth, @TomSchmidt, @Big Yikes, @Anon

    Well that’s excellent, good for you. And color me a bit surprised.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Truth


    And color me a bit surprised.
     
    No need. You're already colored. ;-}

    Replies: @Truth

    , @Johann Ricke
    @Truth


    Well that’s excellent, good for you. And color me a bit surprised.
     
    You should have some, too. Our children are literally the future of humanity.

    Replies: @Truth

  11. @216
    With all the propaganda dedicated to shaming (middle class white women) people out of procreation, would it ever be considered acceptable to tell the lower class to stop having kids they can't afford.

    "It's OK to be white"

    "Can't feed, don't breed"

    We have real time evidence to the contrary. E. Macron condemned high fertility rates in the Sahel. He was immidiately called on the carpet.

    Replies: @iffen, @Anonymous

    would it ever be considered acceptable to tell the lower class to stop having kids

    No, it will never be acceptable. Entertaining the possibility that people such as you are going to be replaced gives me the same flawed schadenfreude I felt when watching the Reginald Denny assault during the LA riots. I thought to myself, “Well, at least the people that they will be kicking in the head in the future will be black.”

  12. Anonymous[381] • Disclaimer says:
    @216
    With all the propaganda dedicated to shaming (middle class white women) people out of procreation, would it ever be considered acceptable to tell the lower class to stop having kids they can't afford.

    "It's OK to be white"

    "Can't feed, don't breed"

    We have real time evidence to the contrary. E. Macron condemned high fertility rates in the Sahel. He was immidiately called on the carpet.

    Replies: @iffen, @Anonymous

    If he really believes it, why doesn’t Macron cut the pay-per-birth benefits? Benefits in France likely increase with each additional birth in a household that stays under the earned-income limits, just like they do in the USA. He doesn’t do it because of the flow of cheap labor for dual-high-earner parents that this welfare rigging of the labor market provides. The system hurts lots of citizens, particularly those with one earned-only income stream and no kids under 18.

    The immigrant servants of the wealthy dual earners game the system in a different way, mostly with male breadwinners who stay under the programs’ income limits and big families with pooled resources.

    Few of the working women married to high-earning men produce the amount of value it takes to get a salary high enough to ensure that the NannyCam-surveilled babysitters or low-wage daycare workers who raise their kids have high enough pay to cover the rent for a tiny apartment. Married working women mostly just concentrate wealth while retaining above-firing, absenteeism-friendly jobs, where no parent can be fired for prolonged and frequent periods of time off in excess of her Paid Time Off and pregnancy leave.

    The dual-earner households and the welfare-rigged labor market of the fake-feminist era are mostly a wealth-redistribution program to make sure that people with kids under 18 take….it….all.

    It’s not working out too well in the USA, where 95 million citizens (16 to 65) are out of the labor force, another 7 million or so file new applications for Unemployment Compensation each month, and half of all “employed” persons just work part time. Most of them are moms—either married moms supplementing spousal income in low-stress voted-best-for-moms jobs with wanton absenteeism laxity for moms or single moms, making sure to stay under the earned-income limits for welfare programs that cover their rent, their food and their electricity bills, with monthly cash assistance and up to $6,431 in refundable child tax credits on top.

    Amazingly, the greedy and discriminatory weath concentration in crony-parent dual-earner households is not enough for the take-it-all / have-it-all married moms.

    They must have non-refundable child tax credits on top of it to finance one more excused, two-week vacation getaway while at-their-beck-and-call grandparents keep their kids. Of course, they’re happy. They’re happy in retiremement, too, since they sacrificed nothing in the way of multiple large and small luxuries or time off to build up what amounts to 4 streams of retirement income. But the vast majority of single, childless citizens and single citizens with kids over 18, living on earned-only income from one stream, cannot afford anything (even rent). Nope, it does not lead to happiness.

    • Replies: @216
    @Anonymous

    I don't know the specifics of French welfare statism, a question better asked of a Francopoaster, who I haven't seen on here for months.

    E. Macron was specifically commenting on births in the Sahel, which has the highest TFRs on a nation-state level.

    http://en.rfi.fr/africa/20180705-macron-says-long-run-solution-africa-migration-africa

  13. @Twinkie
    @Audacious Epigone


    Three. Nothing makes me happier than they do.
     
    Have another one. I mentioned this before, but three under age five to six is absolutely the most difficult, but then it gets better, much better after that.

    In fact, have more after the next one - you will eventually have built-in babysitters with the older children. Nowadays my oldest child makes breakfast and lunch for the rest of the children. My second oldest reviews much of the homeschooling work the little ones do. It's getting embarrassingly easy for my wife and me (except for shuttling the children to the various athletic and extracurricular activities - we have something for somebody everyday).

    You should have so many children that there are cliques among the children. It's pretty fun and funny (for me anyway).

    Not only is my wife very fulfilled and happy, because of our children, we know so many mothers in our social circle who are breaming and beaming with joy, because of their children.

    On the other hand, we know two childless couples and one single woman pretty well. The childless couples are always traveling and doing hobbies (and spoiling their pets to ridiculous degrees - one of the couples has a dog with its own bedroom, bed, and stairs to the said bed, etc.). We have noted that the two couples have grown apart and seemingly constantly annoyed with each other. They have become like roommates. Frankly, they look a bit sad. And the single woman is absolutely desperate, yet extremely picky. She turns down every guy she meets, but is always complaining about lack of men. She is freezing her eggs.

    Of course, one thing I should note is that having "children = happiness" may be both causal and self-selection. I do think that, on average, having children makes women happier. On other hand, there are some women who are wired wrongly and become absolutely miserable with taking care of even one child. Some women are meant to be that childless shrew of an aunt, I guess. :)

    Replies: @Logan, @Rosie, @Mark G., @Budd Dwyer, @Audacious Epigone, @Almost Missouri, @SFG

    My second daughter was born when the first was 14. Not intentionally, my wife had several miscarriages after the first and we thought it wasn’t meant to be.

    The little one had two mommies and absolutely thrived on it. Big sister was ferociously protective.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Logan

    Those dynamics are interesting. There's nearly that much of a gap between myself and my youngest sibling and it was as you say growing up. There was never any competition between us.

    , @Twinkie
    @Logan


    The little one had two mommies and absolutely thrived on it. Big sister was ferociously protective.
     
    And that was good for the big sister, too, I would think. My older children are certainly better people for having taken (and continue to) care of their younger siblings.
  14. Sid says:

    Just on the most basic level of personal experience… Do middle aged, childless women you know seem happier than the ones with children? No? Wow, I’ve observed the same thing!

    I can buy that women in their 20s without kids have more fun and less worry than their more fecund counterparts, but childless women in their 30s need to have a lot of fun to feel happier than their peers with kids.

    And once a woman is in her 40s and beyond, forget about it. The best childless women can do after that point is have great relationships with their nieces and nephews. But that simply reinforces that a childless middle age and elderly years are a grim time. Having great relationships with one’s nieces and nephews underscores the truth of natalism, rather than contradict it.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Sid

    Why would anyone have "great relationships with their nieces"? Who can stand 20 year younger people for more than a few minutes? Just being related doesn't make it any more interesting. It's still people from a completely different universe.

    I could spend a bit more time with an Australian abo, or some other exotic human, even if he is obviously dumb, since the difference could provide some entertainment. But seeing someone growing on the same planet, in a cultural environment similar to yours, and yet still talking about how they are concerned with about global warming, racial biases, gay rights, trade deficit - it should drive you nuts. It doesn't even mater if they are pro or against gay rights. If they are not gay, and they are concerned with gay rights, they are stupid. If they believe or deny global warming while living in a concrete building, more than 20 feet above the sea, they are stupid. If they never lived on minimum wage, why would they care about minimum wage? If they never lived on welfare, why would they care how high it is, and who gets it? (At least in US, it's the smallest part of taxes. And if you are so poor that a few dollars a month concern you, I don't think I want to talk to you. See below.) And so on. Why would I want to see myself, 20 years ago, concerned with idealistic, irrelevant stuff picked up from TV or the Net?

    Let alone that some of my nephews are working class, meaning they are even stupider. For example, who the fuck cares about motorbikes?

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @Sid

    Women should be warned--well, in a healthy society its salience is obvious to the extent it would be ubiquitously known and understood--that depending on how they age that sometime in their late 20s through their mid-30s they will rapidly become invisible to a huge percentage of the population if they don't have a family of their own.

    Harsh truth--but the consequences for many young women who are unaware of it is orders of magnitude harsher still.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @iffen

    , @Anonymous
    @Sid

    People are not worried about the happiness of childless women. That is not what this is about. It’s also not about valuing “family” in general. It’s about getting more and more for parents during their time on Earth. It’s not about DNA. Their shared DNA dwindles to less than 10% after the great great grandchildren. It’s about government money, above-firing jobs and womb privilege. It’s not altruistic or non-selfish in most cases; it’s cutthroat competitive.

    The happy-family experience in retirement of the guy with the “childless mom” is good.

    But there are many other retirement experiences, including for people who took the effort to raise their grandchildren. Many of them sacrificed 10 or 15 retirement years to accommodate dual-high-earner parents in keeping two household-supporting jobs under one roof, babysitting at the beck and call of their dual-earner children.

    They don’t just babysit so that dual-earner parents can dominate above-firing, family-friendly jobs, but also during their frequent and lengthy vacations. Wonder if the elderly, disabled woman mentioned in this article did all of that—raising her grandchildren so that her daughter could have a posh zip-code house—only to have the person whose children she raised refuse to help her with her heavy cleaning when she became disabled.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-denmark-election-welfare-insight/danes-make-welfare-a-hot-election-issue-as-cracks-show-in-nordic-model-idUSKCN1SZ0IC

    I know from working in a ton of majority-mom workplaces, where the women were mostly cutthroat to the max and nothing if not “abrasive” to non culture fits between their cloying, saccharine, vanity-laden, mom-bonding work parties, that all (or most) “nice family people” with “proper family lives” don’t fit that guy’s glowing description. Many are mean as snakes.

    I am not sure that his mother’s experience is typical of all “childless” women, either. By the time they know they aren’t going to have children, women have a lifetime of experience, including a lot of tireless babysitting for other people’s kids in many cases. This stuff doesn’t involve abrasiveness—quite the opposite, even though these aren’t your children. Most childless women have been very kind to moms over the years, too, and that kindness is not something that most moms feel like they should return.

    Moms are entitled.

    Then when you get older, if you didn’t make a bunch of money to insulate you from harsh criticism, you get the wonderful experience of being an example to the children of others, especially if you majored or worked in an impractical area. Whereas they were hiring you to teach their kids art, or you were doing it for free, now it’s tell Becky why she shouldn’t do what you did.

    You can’t mention any women who did the same thing, but whose spousal income guaranteed a cushy lifestyle, without the fake feminists going ballistic. How dare you critique so-in-so fellow mom. She is a career woman and a mother! You’re just a Debbie downer. Now, get back to telling Becky how you made the wrong choices in life.

    If this is a liberal mom, you also cannot critique the single-breadwinner moms, the ones who get their household bills paid by government (reduced-cost rent, free electricity, free food), in addition to monthly cash assistance and up to $6,431 in refundable child tax credit cash. They’re such “non-perpetual adolescents” in their “independent” apartments.

    However, you also cannot tell Becky about this economic option.

    You—as a single, childless woman—have to somehow live on low, earned-only income, even after adding additional practical credentials to your useless bachelor’s degree. You discover that—lo and behold—absentee moms with no credentials and unearned income from a spouse, child support or welfare and child tax credits dominate all of those jobs.

    Becky could pursue an impractical career option while producing from the womb in a single-breadwinner household if she stayed under the earned-income limits for welfare by working part time or by working temp gigs, dropping the welfare during months when her income went over the programs’ limits. This cynical option is deployed regularly by glorified, “warm and wonderful” family people across the USA.

    But Becky’s mom will be aghast if you mention it, either to promote it to her daughter or to critique it. It’s okay for Sheniqua, but not for Becky. And it wasn’t for you, either.

    You—unlike Becky’s mom—are too nice to mention it, anyway, and you go along with the double-standard poor-choices routine that is part of being single, childless and non-affluent.

    Even if you had money, as a single, childless woman, you would be expected to provide Becky with the be-sure-to-have-kids-so-you-won’t-be-like-me advice, especially in this time when white people are so worried about increasing the white birth rate.

    The pay-per-birth welfare and child tax credit schemes, along with the welfare-rigged voted-best-for-moms workplaces and the childcare from the fawning grandparents or low-wage daycare workers, has accommodated wealth concentration.

    But it has not worked to increase the birth rate amongst all groups.

    Nor has it created a less abrasive, less entitled kind of mom, like the ones who took care of their elderly relatives in past eras. That’s for other people to do. We moms do the smug baby-show-off part and the child-tax-credit-financed vacation part.

    This is an terrible, hostile, anti-individual country to live in as a single, childless person, particularly when you aren’t affluent. That is for sure. That’s why you tell Becky about it, even when you don’t have kids. “Nice” family people make sure it’s horrible for childless people. And they do it for themselves, not for their kids, although it doesn’t always turn out so well to put your arrogant, womb-productive kids above criticism as you age. (See link) The solution if the Danes is more immigrant servants to take care of the parents of the dual-earner parents. There’s no way to vote against this ****, either. It’s too lucrative for the womb-producing voters.

    Bring in the Hallmark card designers.

  15. @Twinkie
    @Audacious Epigone


    Three. Nothing makes me happier than they do.
     
    Have another one. I mentioned this before, but three under age five to six is absolutely the most difficult, but then it gets better, much better after that.

    In fact, have more after the next one - you will eventually have built-in babysitters with the older children. Nowadays my oldest child makes breakfast and lunch for the rest of the children. My second oldest reviews much of the homeschooling work the little ones do. It's getting embarrassingly easy for my wife and me (except for shuttling the children to the various athletic and extracurricular activities - we have something for somebody everyday).

    You should have so many children that there are cliques among the children. It's pretty fun and funny (for me anyway).

    Not only is my wife very fulfilled and happy, because of our children, we know so many mothers in our social circle who are breaming and beaming with joy, because of their children.

    On the other hand, we know two childless couples and one single woman pretty well. The childless couples are always traveling and doing hobbies (and spoiling their pets to ridiculous degrees - one of the couples has a dog with its own bedroom, bed, and stairs to the said bed, etc.). We have noted that the two couples have grown apart and seemingly constantly annoyed with each other. They have become like roommates. Frankly, they look a bit sad. And the single woman is absolutely desperate, yet extremely picky. She turns down every guy she meets, but is always complaining about lack of men. She is freezing her eggs.

    Of course, one thing I should note is that having "children = happiness" may be both causal and self-selection. I do think that, on average, having children makes women happier. On other hand, there are some women who are wired wrongly and become absolutely miserable with taking care of even one child. Some women are meant to be that childless shrew of an aunt, I guess. :)

    Replies: @Logan, @Rosie, @Mark G., @Budd Dwyer, @Audacious Epigone, @Almost Missouri, @SFG

    Have another one. I mentioned this before, but three under age five to six is absolutely the most difficult, but then it gets better, much better after that.

    Very true.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Rosie

    I had my first three in three years. So my wife and I had a 3-year old, a 1.5-year old, and a newborn.

    I never got deep sleep during that time, and everything from that period of my life is a bit of a haze. My wife thinks we have brain damage and memory loss from lack of sleep.

  16. I continue my objection to the shallow “happiness” standard. First one thing, the word is ambiguous. One can mean all sorts of things by the term. Is a happy life:

    care-free?
    exciting?
    fulfilling?
    honorable?
    joyful?
    Or is the answer 42?

    One must ultimately decide.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Rosie

    I agree.

    "Happiness" is highly overrated.

    It is quite meaningless to try and make comparisons.

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @Rosie

    Instead of deferring to the Hitchhiker, I defer to the last of the five good emperors--happiness is living in accordance with one's nature. Creating, nurturing, protecting, and raising the next generation is a big part of that nature.

  17. @Audacious Epigone
    @Truth

    Three. Nothing makes me happier than they do.

    Replies: @Oblivionrecurs, @Twinkie, @Truth, @TomSchmidt, @Big Yikes, @Anon

    Congratulations. “The birth of a child is a sure sign that God hasn’t given up on the world.” And all that.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @TomSchmidt

    Thanks very much.

    It's also a sure sign that I cannot give up, either. While there is blood in our veins and air in our lungs, we have a fighting chance.

  18. @Truth
    @Audacious Epigone

    Well that's excellent, good for you. And color me a bit surprised.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Johann Ricke

    And color me a bit surprised.

    No need. You’re already colored. ;-}

    • Replies: @Truth
    @Achmed E. Newman

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BX482LdUb0

  19. @Oblivionrecurs
    I've noticed an usually large explosions in those expressing a disgust for children and a justification of the childless movement in the last several months, particularly with the release of the report we only have 12 years to stop catastrophic climate change (i'd love a study of which demographic is most susceptible to this)

    The rate of which people are emulating the same sentiment, is very reminiscent of the initial stages of the SJW privilege culture movement that began in 2014.

    The fertility rate will increasingly decline

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    … particularly with the release of the report we only have 12 years to stop catastrophic climate change…

    You can’t take all this stuff so seriously. Come on, look at the source:

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    @Achmed E. Newman

    OK, can we send her to Congress instead of the real AOC?

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    , @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    @Achmed E. Newman

    At least AOC is one brown, feminist, childless woman that won't be reproducing. Hopefully she encourages all 'Ricans to follow her lead. The evidence suggests it is working - the TFR in Puerto Rico is now around 1!!

    Replies: @dvorak

    , @Oblivionrecurs
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Spend more than 15 mins in leftist meme groups on social media and you'll see the 12 years of doom spread everywhere

    Its disturbing and suspect

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  20. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Oblivionrecurs


    ... particularly with the release of the report we only have 12 years to stop catastrophic climate change...
     
    You can't take all this stuff so seriously. Come on, look at the source:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHjgDHTeCto

    Replies: @Cloudbuster, @UrbaneFrancoOntarian, @Oblivionrecurs

    OK, can we send her to Congress instead of the real AOC?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Cloudbuster

    She's got my vote. Kids are a blast. I had my boy doing most of the Monty Python "Four Yorkshiremen" skit with me, when he was 6.

  21. This is the part that’s scary, if it’s at all accurate:

    Relatedly, the percentage of unmarried single women without children who report experiencing poor mental health (defined as “stress, depression, and problems with emotions”) in the last month is 60%. For married mothers with kids, it’s just 45%.

    45% is WAY TOO MUCH. This could very well explain any results, as requested by SFG, on men’s happiness. There are many men who can be perfectly happy to be with one of those 45% (so long as it’s not really clinical, requiring guys in white coats …), as those guys are very good at BSing. They can make their wife feel they care about these “problems” that come up depending on mood of the day, but are just very good at tuning it out and rightfully realizing that the story will be different tomorrow.

    Others, myself included, are just tuned to dealing with people (not women, that is) who are truthful, and we take things that way. It is indeed miserable to deal with moody women when you take everything they say seriously, and that’s something that can make those “Going Their Own Way” Men and the involuntarily non-attached happier. For the latter, they don’t even know it (yet).

    Children are another story. They are a blessing that can’t be understood unless you have your own.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Achmed E. Newman

    BTW, youtube lets me down about 10% of the time, so I apologize (no, you're welcome), but there's a scene in The Witches of Eastwick with the guy whose wife is going nuts due to spells put on her. After she spews about a gallon of cherry juice and seeds, her meek husband finally picks up the fireplace poker and says "Let's call it a day." Women need to act where a guy's thoughts don't go that far, even if it just ends up in his leaving and probably ruining the kid's lives.

    How did we get to 45%? OK, that number may be BS and cover, say, one day of reported "depression" in a year, but I do think the Western women are so much more trouble than in the past. Feminism has fucked up society 6 ways from Sunday.

  22. @Cloudbuster
    @Achmed E. Newman

    OK, can we send her to Congress instead of the real AOC?

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    She’s got my vote. Kids are a blast. I had my boy doing most of the Monty Python “Four Yorkshiremen” skit with me, when he was 6.

  23. @Achmed E. Newman
    This is the part that's scary, if it's at all accurate:

    Relatedly, the percentage of unmarried single women without children who report experiencing poor mental health (defined as “stress, depression, and problems with emotions”) in the last month is 60%. For married mothers with kids, it’s just 45%.
     
    45% is WAY TOO MUCH. This could very well explain any results, as requested by SFG, on men's happiness. There are many men who can be perfectly happy to be with one of those 45% (so long as it's not really clinical, requiring guys in white coats ...), as those guys are very good at BSing. They can make their wife feel they care about these "problems" that come up depending on mood of the day, but are just very good at tuning it out and rightfully realizing that the story will be different tomorrow.

    Others, myself included, are just tuned to dealing with people (not women, that is) who are truthful, and we take things that way. It is indeed miserable to deal with moody women when you take everything they say seriously, and that's something that can make those "Going Their Own Way" Men and the involuntarily non-attached happier. For the latter, they don't even know it (yet).

    Children are another story. They are a blessing that can't be understood unless you have your own.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    BTW, youtube lets me down about 10% of the time, so I apologize (no, you’re welcome), but there’s a scene in The Witches of Eastwick with the guy whose wife is going nuts due to spells put on her. After she spews about a gallon of cherry juice and seeds, her meek husband finally picks up the fireplace poker and says “Let’s call it a day.” Women need to act where a guy’s thoughts don’t go that far, even if it just ends up in his leaving and probably ruining the kid’s lives.

    How did we get to 45%? OK, that number may be BS and cover, say, one day of reported “depression” in a year, but I do think the Western women are so much more trouble than in the past. Feminism has fucked up society 6 ways from Sunday.

  24. @Twinkie
    @Audacious Epigone


    Three. Nothing makes me happier than they do.
     
    Have another one. I mentioned this before, but three under age five to six is absolutely the most difficult, but then it gets better, much better after that.

    In fact, have more after the next one - you will eventually have built-in babysitters with the older children. Nowadays my oldest child makes breakfast and lunch for the rest of the children. My second oldest reviews much of the homeschooling work the little ones do. It's getting embarrassingly easy for my wife and me (except for shuttling the children to the various athletic and extracurricular activities - we have something for somebody everyday).

    You should have so many children that there are cliques among the children. It's pretty fun and funny (for me anyway).

    Not only is my wife very fulfilled and happy, because of our children, we know so many mothers in our social circle who are breaming and beaming with joy, because of their children.

    On the other hand, we know two childless couples and one single woman pretty well. The childless couples are always traveling and doing hobbies (and spoiling their pets to ridiculous degrees - one of the couples has a dog with its own bedroom, bed, and stairs to the said bed, etc.). We have noted that the two couples have grown apart and seemingly constantly annoyed with each other. They have become like roommates. Frankly, they look a bit sad. And the single woman is absolutely desperate, yet extremely picky. She turns down every guy she meets, but is always complaining about lack of men. She is freezing her eggs.

    Of course, one thing I should note is that having "children = happiness" may be both causal and self-selection. I do think that, on average, having children makes women happier. On other hand, there are some women who are wired wrongly and become absolutely miserable with taking care of even one child. Some women are meant to be that childless shrew of an aunt, I guess. :)

    Replies: @Logan, @Rosie, @Mark G., @Budd Dwyer, @Audacious Epigone, @Almost Missouri, @SFG

    Many older single women fall into that category of women who complain about lack of men while turning down every guy they meet. As I’ve become older I’ve realized that no one is perfect and you can still have enjoyable relationships, romantic and otherwise, with imperfect people. Once I realized that, my happiness level increased.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Mark G.


    Many older single women fall into that category of women who complain about lack of men while turning down every guy they meet.
     
    The sad thing is, the single woman to whom I referred above is actually quite attractive and well-educated. She is a generally pretty considerate person, too.

    But as she has gotten older and more desperate, her standards have risen, not declined. It's almost as if she waited this long and passed on so many men that she now has to justify all that by having impossibly high standards. What's even worse is that she has a very bad case of "the grass is greener on the other side of the fence" syndrome on top of all that. My wife is starting to get a tad bit creeped out by her constant complaints about single men she meets, followed by "Oh, you are so lucky, because you have such a great husband." And I am not the only husband about whom she has said things of this sort.

    In other words, this lady is turning her nose up at all the available single men, but is beginning to get fixated on married men.* That is most assuredly not healthy and doesn't bode well for the rest of the fecund period of her life.

    *Though my wife does half-jokingly say that married men are, by definition, pre-selected by other women and that means something for women on the hunt for men.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @Justvisiting

    , @MikeatMikedotMike
    @Mark G.

    Mt wife has a few older female acquaintances like this. All women share a few similarities: Not all that attractive but not ugly, a little too thin, graduate level education, terrible sense of style, plenty affable, and no man was ever good enough.

    , @Anon
    @Mark G.

    I think that's what Schwartzenegger (and many other men) would say.

  25. @Audacious Epigone
    @Truth

    Three. Nothing makes me happier than they do.

    Replies: @Oblivionrecurs, @Twinkie, @Truth, @TomSchmidt, @Big Yikes, @Anon

    Well you’re certainly not going to be replaced 😀

  26. @Audacious Epigone
    @Truth

    Three. Nothing makes me happier than they do.

    Replies: @Oblivionrecurs, @Twinkie, @Truth, @TomSchmidt, @Big Yikes, @Anon

    If children are you greatest joy, it seems you have a quite dull life. I don’t recall Marc Aurelius writing similar lumpenprole sancta-simplicitas confessions. No surprise you are griping anonymously on the web about random imagined enemies – it must be that massive happiness.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Anon


    If children are you greatest joy, it seems you have a quite dull life.
     
    Do tell me what "joyful" things you have done.

    I grew up in Asia and America. Did military service in two countries. Went to Ivy League universities. Worked as an investigator and did counter-terrorism on three continents. Worked on the Hill and got to know important politicians and elected officials. Started a business with my wife, grew it, and sold it and don't have to work anymore. And I am on the board of a large healthcare system, having a hand in determining the fate of thousands of patients. I've done lots of exciting, dangerous, and fun things, and traveled all corners of the earth.

    None of those things, I mean absolutely none, measures up to seeing my children be born and witnessing their growth as human beings everyday. No, it's not all cookies and cream raising children. It gets frustrating and stressful sometimes. So, occasionally, I do take a pack, pick up a rifle, and take my favorite dog and go up a mountain and "unwind" for a half a day or so.

    In all my travels, work, and living, I've seen lots of human ugliness - truly depraved and evil things. But I have seen some goodness too (and even holiness) and children most definitely form the most important part of what is good and beautiful in life.

    No surprise you are griping anonymously on the web about random imagined enemies – it must be that massive happiness.
     
    Don't be a jackass.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @Anon

    Marcus Aurelius' Stoicism is what helped him deal with the death of his children, something he had to endure more times than I'd ever wish on my worst enemy.

  27. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Truth


    And color me a bit surprised.
     
    No need. You're already colored. ;-}

    Replies: @Truth

  28. Anon[271] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sid
    Just on the most basic level of personal experience... Do middle aged, childless women you know seem happier than the ones with children? No? Wow, I've observed the same thing!

    I can buy that women in their 20s without kids have more fun and less worry than their more fecund counterparts, but childless women in their 30s need to have a lot of fun to feel happier than their peers with kids.

    And once a woman is in her 40s and beyond, forget about it. The best childless women can do after that point is have great relationships with their nieces and nephews. But that simply reinforces that a childless middle age and elderly years are a grim time. Having great relationships with one's nieces and nephews underscores the truth of natalism, rather than contradict it.

    Replies: @Anon, @Audacious Epigone, @Anonymous

    Why would anyone have “great relationships with their nieces”? Who can stand 20 year younger people for more than a few minutes? Just being related doesn’t make it any more interesting. It’s still people from a completely different universe.

    I could spend a bit more time with an Australian abo, or some other exotic human, even if he is obviously dumb, since the difference could provide some entertainment. But seeing someone growing on the same planet, in a cultural environment similar to yours, and yet still talking about how they are concerned with about global warming, racial biases, gay rights, trade deficit – it should drive you nuts. It doesn’t even mater if they are pro or against gay rights. If they are not gay, and they are concerned with gay rights, they are stupid. If they believe or deny global warming while living in a concrete building, more than 20 feet above the sea, they are stupid. If they never lived on minimum wage, why would they care about minimum wage? If they never lived on welfare, why would they care how high it is, and who gets it? (At least in US, it’s the smallest part of taxes. And if you are so poor that a few dollars a month concern you, I don’t think I want to talk to you. See below.) And so on. Why would I want to see myself, 20 years ago, concerned with idealistic, irrelevant stuff picked up from TV or the Net?

    Let alone that some of my nephews are working class, meaning they are even stupider. For example, who the fuck cares about motorbikes?

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Anon


    Why would anyone have “great relationships with their nieces”? Who can stand 20 year younger people for more than a few minutes? Just being related doesn’t make it any more interesting. It’s still people from a completely different universe.
     
    I love my nephews and nieces. It's not an issue of "interesting," whatever that means. They are a part of my tribe - I love them and they love me. It's as simple as that.

    Replies: @Anon

  29. Want a White baby boom?

    Raise the federal funds rate to 20 percent and use emergency mass deportation powers to remove 50 or 60 million foreigners and their spawn from the USA.

    Housing costs would sink through the floor of the basement and the removal of the foreigners would drive a sense of rejuvenation and rebirth in the USA.

    Trump has stabbed his voters in the back by pushing mass legal immigration and by refusing to deport the upwards of 30 million illegal alien invaders in the USA.

    Trump says he wants foreigners pouring into the USA “in the largest numbers ever.”

    Baby Boomer Conservatism Must Be Crushed and Buried To Advance The Interests of WHITE CORE AMERICA.

    High housing costs and multicultural mayhem are killing Affordable Family Formation.

    https://twitter.com/westland_will/status/1133213283576532993

  30. So many ways today for people to self-nominate for a Darwin Award.

    Of course, choosing to remain childless is the slow path to deleting ones DNA from the Tree of Humanity, but it’s just as sure as cliff-diving in shallow water before leaving progeny.

    The future is there for those of us who leave descendants who’ll show up for it. I am really not all that worried about what my descendants will do to cope with the consequences of the last 50 years of mass stupidity. My ancestors survived worse.

    I will aver that this boundary-less world is nasty. The best parents in the world have a hard time walling out the poison when it arrives on ethernet cables either directly or via “friends.” I wonder if all of my granddaughters will be properly equipped to laugh (at least on the inside) when some brain-dead classmate calls each of them a becky for refraining from some stupidity?

    It’ll take real spine (and a sense of self based on real accomplishment) to ignore The World. At least my granddaughters will have heard two of my favorite mantras:

    1. Everything you do becomes a part of you. (So don’t do a bunch of stupid stuff impulsively as a kid or adolescent that you’ll later regret.)
    2. Being different for the sake of being different is the essence of conformity. If everyone else gets a banal tattoo on their ass, wrist, foot, etc. to show how unique they are, just how “unique” are they?

    A trip to the store or a park now reveals that not only are my wife and me the last two non-Pod-People on Earth without a FB or TWIT account, we’re also the last people who said, “No thanks” to a trip to the tattoo parlor.

    F-ing sheep. Can’t wait to see what that cute little bunny on her ankle looks like in 40 years. I guess all those tatted-up freaks figure they’ll have secured their Darwin Award long before that time arrives.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @dc.sunsets

    I've increasingly noticed tattoos on post-menopausal women. When did it start becoming unremarkable for women to get them? The early nineties, maybe? That would put the front end of the wave at around 50 years old, which seems about right in my experience.

    Replies: @dc.sunsets, @Mark G., @Feryl

    , @Almost Missouri
    @dc.sunsets

    Sadly, I don't think the tat-insanity will abate until nursing homes are full of sagging-tattooed old bags. Then it will suddenly dawn on the vain young trend-setters that tattoos=old saggy irrelevant dotards. Then inking will seem about as cutting-edge as the Lawrence Welk Show seemed to the hippies.

    And so the young will replace tattoos with some other vapidity. Will it also dawn on them that tattoos=reliable marker for poor life choices, and that nursing homes full of aging slores with distended ink attended by hostile third-worlders are an object lesson they would do well to heed?

    Well, I won't bet on it.

  31. Rabbit Angstrom at one point says something like: The only reason to have children is so that, when you are are lying on that hospital bed dying, you are surrounded by your own DNA. Of course, Updike created, in Rabbit, a very flawed character, but there is something to that. And, I doubt any woman has ever cuddled-up to her husband and cooed, “Let’s make a teenager.”

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  32. Remember the old College Humor “Google Guy” video?

    “I have one million results that say they don’t, and one result that says they do”

    (takes the one “yes” page) “I knew it!”

  33. The judge in the court case against William Sanger (the husband of the famous Margaret Sanger) for distributing his wife’s publications on family planning:
    “Your crime is not only a violation of the laws of man, but of the law of God as well, in your scheme to prevent motherhood. Too many persons have the idea that it is wrong to have children. Some women are so selfish that they do not want to be bothered with them. If some persons would go around and urge Christian women to bear children, instead of wasting their time on woman suffrage, this city and society would be better off.”
    Free Speech and the Politics of Identity (Oxford Univ. Press)

    Imagine that being said these days from the hand holding the gavel…

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Talha

    There is one subgroup in the West that can still get away with saying that in public--a subgroup that took the last month off for religious reasons.

    No pressure my friend, no pressure at all!

  34. Budd Dwyer [AKA "Eddie C."] says:
    @Twinkie
    @Audacious Epigone


    Three. Nothing makes me happier than they do.
     
    Have another one. I mentioned this before, but three under age five to six is absolutely the most difficult, but then it gets better, much better after that.

    In fact, have more after the next one - you will eventually have built-in babysitters with the older children. Nowadays my oldest child makes breakfast and lunch for the rest of the children. My second oldest reviews much of the homeschooling work the little ones do. It's getting embarrassingly easy for my wife and me (except for shuttling the children to the various athletic and extracurricular activities - we have something for somebody everyday).

    You should have so many children that there are cliques among the children. It's pretty fun and funny (for me anyway).

    Not only is my wife very fulfilled and happy, because of our children, we know so many mothers in our social circle who are breaming and beaming with joy, because of their children.

    On the other hand, we know two childless couples and one single woman pretty well. The childless couples are always traveling and doing hobbies (and spoiling their pets to ridiculous degrees - one of the couples has a dog with its own bedroom, bed, and stairs to the said bed, etc.). We have noted that the two couples have grown apart and seemingly constantly annoyed with each other. They have become like roommates. Frankly, they look a bit sad. And the single woman is absolutely desperate, yet extremely picky. She turns down every guy she meets, but is always complaining about lack of men. She is freezing her eggs.

    Of course, one thing I should note is that having "children = happiness" may be both causal and self-selection. I do think that, on average, having children makes women happier. On other hand, there are some women who are wired wrongly and become absolutely miserable with taking care of even one child. Some women are meant to be that childless shrew of an aunt, I guess. :)

    Replies: @Logan, @Rosie, @Mark G., @Budd Dwyer, @Audacious Epigone, @Almost Missouri, @SFG

    On the other hand, we know two childless couples and one single woman pretty well. The childless couples are always traveling and doing hobbies (and spoiling their pets to ridiculous degrees – one of the couples has a dog with its own bedroom, bed, and stairs to the said bed, etc.). We have noted that the two couples have grown apart and seemingly constantly annoyed with each other. They have become like roommates. Frankly, they look a bit sad. And the single woman is absolutely desperate, yet extremely picky. She turns down every guy she meets, but is always complaining about lack of men. She is freezing her eggs.

    I would’ve liked to have had eight kids. My wife and I are practicing Catholics and believe the purpose of marriage is to have children. I was engaged to my wife— hate having to say it but it was the first marriage for both of us— when she got uterine cancer which required a hysterectomy. It devastated her and me that we could never have children. We accepted that God had a reason for it. We got married in the Church three months later (after pre-Cana, planning, etc.) and have been married for many years now. Years ago we talked about adoption but it is not easy or cheap. So, we are childless. It makes me sad writing those words.

    Chesterton and PJB never had children and I imagine for them, like me, it was never their choice but God’s.

    • Replies: @dvorak
    @Budd Dwyer


    Years ago we talked about adoption but it is not easy or cheap. So, we are childless. It makes me sad writing those words.
     
    Adopting a baby is overrated. Why each take on the equivalent of a 40 hour/wk home health care aide job if the kid doesn't have your DNA?

    Adopting a tween is underrated. www.adoptuskids.org
    , @Twinkie
    @Budd Dwyer


    when she got uterine cancer which required a hysterectomy. It devastated her and me that we could never have children. We accepted that God had a reason for it.
     
    I am very sorry to hear it - you and your wife indeed carry a very heavy cross. I sincerely hope that God rewards you richly in Paradise for your faith under such trying circumstances.

    My wife and I are practicing Catholics and believe the purpose of marriage is to have children.
     
    Well, it's not just about having children. The Church teaches that the Sacrament of Marriage has two purposes - one is procreative, yes, but the other is unitive, for you and your wife are now one. Marriage offers us a foretaste of Heaven in this otherwise sad vale of tears we call life.
    , @MarkinPNW
    @Budd Dwyer

    My only child, a daughter and her husband, also have not been able to have children of their own. But they got involved in Foster care, with all the tribulations and blessing that brings. Out of 9 foster children over the years they have eventually been able to adopt 3 half-siblings. They are very much of a challenge, but also bring us (myself, my wife, my daughter and her husband) much joy.

    Foster care is not easy, with all the regulations and bureaucracy as well as trying to love and help "damaged" children, but it could also be a way to receive, and to give many blessings.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  35. @SFG
    Looked at men?

    It would be interesting to help resolve the MGTOW/PUA debate, no?

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    Kind of, but it could stand to be more focused.

    • Replies: @SFG
    @Audacious Epigone

    Thanks! I'm curious to see what you come up with. Though looking at some of the comments, perhaps this is a fight you don't want to start. ;)

    That prelim thing does have the effect I expected--there's a small antidepressant effect on men as well, though smaller than that on women. Makes sense as it might make sense in some cases for some men to delay family formation until they can accumulate the necessary resources (though it can certainly be overdone), whereas women have a hard fertility cutoff.


    Myself I'm probably too old (and am a little concerned about spawning little high-IQ SJWs), but I would never try to talk anyone out of having kids. Long as you can pay for them, anyway.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

  36. @Oblivionrecurs
    @Audacious Epigone

    Imagine how miserable millennials are going to be when they die old and alone

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @prime noticer

    Yes, it’s shameful that so many of these women start thinking about the last five decades of their lives for the first time when they hit 32. Going to work, drink, travel the world, and binge watch Netflix when you’re 45? 55? 65? That’s a long, long time to be invisible.

    • Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    @Audacious Epigone

    Meanwhile for men who had their babies at 25, that's when the easy life really begins!

    , @Oblivionrecurs
    @Audacious Epigone

    Interestingly enough possible human fertility plummets after 30 (studies show exposure to this fact boosts fertility)

    I'm interested in the long term health of millennials.

  37. @Twinkie
    @Audacious Epigone


    Three. Nothing makes me happier than they do.
     
    Have another one. I mentioned this before, but three under age five to six is absolutely the most difficult, but then it gets better, much better after that.

    In fact, have more after the next one - you will eventually have built-in babysitters with the older children. Nowadays my oldest child makes breakfast and lunch for the rest of the children. My second oldest reviews much of the homeschooling work the little ones do. It's getting embarrassingly easy for my wife and me (except for shuttling the children to the various athletic and extracurricular activities - we have something for somebody everyday).

    You should have so many children that there are cliques among the children. It's pretty fun and funny (for me anyway).

    Not only is my wife very fulfilled and happy, because of our children, we know so many mothers in our social circle who are breaming and beaming with joy, because of their children.

    On the other hand, we know two childless couples and one single woman pretty well. The childless couples are always traveling and doing hobbies (and spoiling their pets to ridiculous degrees - one of the couples has a dog with its own bedroom, bed, and stairs to the said bed, etc.). We have noted that the two couples have grown apart and seemingly constantly annoyed with each other. They have become like roommates. Frankly, they look a bit sad. And the single woman is absolutely desperate, yet extremely picky. She turns down every guy she meets, but is always complaining about lack of men. She is freezing her eggs.

    Of course, one thing I should note is that having "children = happiness" may be both causal and self-selection. I do think that, on average, having children makes women happier. On other hand, there are some women who are wired wrongly and become absolutely miserable with taking care of even one child. Some women are meant to be that childless shrew of an aunt, I guess. :)

    Replies: @Logan, @Rosie, @Mark G., @Budd Dwyer, @Audacious Epigone, @Almost Missouri, @SFG

    If you don’t mind answering, how many do you have? It has unquestionably gotten much easier as my oldest has gotten older–he already helps a lot with the youngest. There are now three other families with children on our street with whom we’re basically on an open door policy with during the day. My older two are already roaming, something I was afraid might not happen. Hopefully at least in some places we’re starting to turn the corner from the helicoptering of the 90s and 2000s.

    Until our fertility window closes, nothing is final. I can imagine in ten or twenty years regretting only having three. It’s hard to imagine regretting that I had a fourth, though!

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Audacious Epigone


    If you don’t mind answering, how many do you have?
     
    Sorry, but that is one question I hope to keep obscure online. But I do have a very large family by contemporary American standards, one that requires more than a minivan to carry.

    Until our fertility window closes, nothing is final. I can imagine in ten or twenty years regretting only having three. It’s hard to imagine regretting that I had a fourth, though!
     
    I have met many parents who regret not having more children. I have not met a single one who regrets having had too many. Then again, there is demographic and religious self-selection at work in my social associations.

    Just one bit of caution, though. Don't think you have forever on that fertility. You never know what's going to happen. It seemed like my wife and I could have children forever at one point and then suddenly - wham! - it stopped. We were quite sad about it for a while. Have more kids while the going is good! :)
  38. @Logan
    @Twinkie

    My second daughter was born when the first was 14. Not intentionally, my wife had several miscarriages after the first and we thought it wasn't meant to be.

    The little one had two mommies and absolutely thrived on it. Big sister was ferociously protective.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @Twinkie

    Those dynamics are interesting. There’s nearly that much of a gap between myself and my youngest sibling and it was as you say growing up. There was never any competition between us.

  39. @Sid
    Just on the most basic level of personal experience... Do middle aged, childless women you know seem happier than the ones with children? No? Wow, I've observed the same thing!

    I can buy that women in their 20s without kids have more fun and less worry than their more fecund counterparts, but childless women in their 30s need to have a lot of fun to feel happier than their peers with kids.

    And once a woman is in her 40s and beyond, forget about it. The best childless women can do after that point is have great relationships with their nieces and nephews. But that simply reinforces that a childless middle age and elderly years are a grim time. Having great relationships with one's nieces and nephews underscores the truth of natalism, rather than contradict it.

    Replies: @Anon, @Audacious Epigone, @Anonymous

    Women should be warned–well, in a healthy society its salience is obvious to the extent it would be ubiquitously known and understood–that depending on how they age that sometime in their late 20s through their mid-30s they will rapidly become invisible to a huge percentage of the population if they don’t have a family of their own.

    Harsh truth–but the consequences for many young women who are unaware of it is orders of magnitude harsher still.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Audacious Epigone

    Link here, sorry.

    , @iffen
    @Audacious Epigone

    Regardless of what you "happy family" types assert, DINKS have a desirable lifestyle. Capable women do quite well on their own which is some sort of "equality" with capable men who have been living large for many generations.

    Replies: @iffen, @dc.sunsets

  40. @dc.sunsets
    So many ways today for people to self-nominate for a Darwin Award.

    Of course, choosing to remain childless is the slow path to deleting ones DNA from the Tree of Humanity, but it's just as sure as cliff-diving in shallow water before leaving progeny.

    The future is there for those of us who leave descendants who'll show up for it. I am really not all that worried about what my descendants will do to cope with the consequences of the last 50 years of mass stupidity. My ancestors survived worse.

    I will aver that this boundary-less world is nasty. The best parents in the world have a hard time walling out the poison when it arrives on ethernet cables either directly or via "friends." I wonder if all of my granddaughters will be properly equipped to laugh (at least on the inside) when some brain-dead classmate calls each of them a becky for refraining from some stupidity?

    It'll take real spine (and a sense of self based on real accomplishment) to ignore The World. At least my granddaughters will have heard two of my favorite mantras:

    1. Everything you do becomes a part of you. (So don't do a bunch of stupid stuff impulsively as a kid or adolescent that you'll later regret.)
    2. Being different for the sake of being different is the essence of conformity. If everyone else gets a banal tattoo on their ass, wrist, foot, etc. to show how unique they are, just how "unique" are they?

    A trip to the store or a park now reveals that not only are my wife and me the last two non-Pod-People on Earth without a FB or TWIT account, we're also the last people who said, "No thanks" to a trip to the tattoo parlor.

    F-ing sheep. Can't wait to see what that cute little bunny on her ankle looks like in 40 years. I guess all those tatted-up freaks figure they'll have secured their Darwin Award long before that time arrives.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @Almost Missouri

    I’ve increasingly noticed tattoos on post-menopausal women. When did it start becoming unremarkable for women to get them? The early nineties, maybe? That would put the front end of the wave at around 50 years old, which seems about right in my experience.

    • Replies: @dc.sunsets
    @Audacious Epigone

    For me, nothing says "I'm a herd animal" more than a tattoo, and the more banal or trivial it is, the more certain I'm left of this conclusion.

    Runner up is the person (often a woman, more often a Mestizo) who has all kinds of family-relevant dates and names and such tattooed.

    I often feel like I'm sliding into a real life experience of Mel Gibson's Apocalypto, and am increasingly surrounded by literal savages.

    , @Mark G.
    @Audacious Epigone

    I just had a 28 year old female coworker with multiple tattoos tell me yesterday that she just talked her 62 year old mother into getting her first tattoo. So the post-menopausal women you see getting them may have daughters who are talking them into it.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    , @Feryl
    @Audacious Epigone

    Tattoos, nose rings etc. all started to appear in the GHW Bush era, mostly confined to a minority of people under 30. You generally don't see these things with early Boomers or Silents, who were too old by 1990 to buy into what was becoming fashionable at that time and in subsequent eras. These things have all gotten more and more popular with each passing decade, for what reason I have no clue. In the 90's it was often assumed that this was "Gen X" culture that would fade away, but much like how things like high divorce rates were supposed to diminish back to mid-century levels but still haven't, it's fair to say that some (though not all) of the trends of the last 50 years are either as bad as ever (like obesity and suicide and "despair" consumption of alcohol/drugs), or only slightly better than they were in the 70's, 80's, or 90's.

  41. @Audacious Epigone
    @Sid

    Women should be warned--well, in a healthy society its salience is obvious to the extent it would be ubiquitously known and understood--that depending on how they age that sometime in their late 20s through their mid-30s they will rapidly become invisible to a huge percentage of the population if they don't have a family of their own.

    Harsh truth--but the consequences for many young women who are unaware of it is orders of magnitude harsher still.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @iffen

    Link here, sorry.

  42. O/T

    For those with more legalese knowledge than I:

    https://twitter.com/getongab/status/1133382525928128512

    Is there a possibility that one of the Euro governments indicts A. Torba and files an extradition request?

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    @216


    Is there a possibility that one of the Euro governments indicts A. Torba and files an extradition request?
     
    Sure, they could do it.  But getting a US court to honor it?  It would take a cheap lawyer 5 minutes to get the Totalitarian Republic of Mindfuckistan told to go pound sand.  Torba is a US citizen and no other government on earth has extraterritorial jurisdiction over him.

    Torba does not strike me as the kind of person who worries about being unable to travel to various PC jurisdictions.  He's more the type to let them fume impotently.

    Replies: @216, @Noman

  43. @216
    O/T

    For those with more legalese knowledge than I:

    https://twitter.com/getongab/status/1133382525928128512

    Is there a possibility that one of the Euro governments indicts A. Torba and files an extradition request?

    Replies: @Mr. Rational

    Is there a possibility that one of the Euro governments indicts A. Torba and files an extradition request?

    Sure, they could do it.  But getting a US court to honor it?  It would take a cheap lawyer 5 minutes to get the Totalitarian Republic of Mindfuckistan told to go pound sand.  Torba is a US citizen and no other government on earth has extraterritorial jurisdiction over him.

    Torba does not strike me as the kind of person who worries about being unable to travel to various PC jurisdictions.  He’s more the type to let them fume impotently.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @216
    @Mr. Rational

    IIRC, there was a prominent case a few years back where an autistic British hacker was extradited to the US, even though he had never been physically present in the US.

    The US is requesting extradition of Julian Assange. If the UK must honor a US request, doesn't it work both ways?

    I'd presume Gab is will be held criminally liable for violating the onerous Anti-Semitism bans in Germany, France, etc. Presumably they will order the ISPs to block the site, which VPNs could get around.

    Replies: @Mr. Rational

    , @Noman
    @Mr. Rational

    "But getting a US court to honor it?"
    Depends on who benefits.
    If Zionism benefits, it will be okayed.
    If Zionism wants Gab shutdown, it will happen.
    More likely would be a hidden change of ownership to an approved social media corporation through shell corporations.
    Gab could become infested with agents provocateur to stir up trouble, like undercover police agents breaking windows during a peaceful protest march.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

  44. 216 says:
    @Mr. Rational
    @216


    Is there a possibility that one of the Euro governments indicts A. Torba and files an extradition request?
     
    Sure, they could do it.  But getting a US court to honor it?  It would take a cheap lawyer 5 minutes to get the Totalitarian Republic of Mindfuckistan told to go pound sand.  Torba is a US citizen and no other government on earth has extraterritorial jurisdiction over him.

    Torba does not strike me as the kind of person who worries about being unable to travel to various PC jurisdictions.  He's more the type to let them fume impotently.

    Replies: @216, @Noman

    IIRC, there was a prominent case a few years back where an autistic British hacker was extradited to the US, even though he had never been physically present in the US.

    The US is requesting extradition of Julian Assange. If the UK must honor a US request, doesn’t it work both ways?

    I’d presume Gab is will be held criminally liable for violating the onerous Anti-Semitism bans in Germany, France, etc. Presumably they will order the ISPs to block the site, which VPNs could get around.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    @216


    IIRC, there was a prominent case a few years back where an autistic British hacker was extradited to the US, even though he had never been physically present in the US.
     
    Unauthorized computer intrusion is a crime in the USA as in most places.  The US can extradite people for committing a recognized crime in another jurisdiction.

    The US is requesting extradition of Julian Assange. If the UK must honor a US request, doesn’t it work both ways?
     
    That's a bit shadier, but Assange is accused of assisting someone to hack into data.  It's not a case of Assange being provided the product of hacked data without being involved in the intrusion; that would leave him innocent, like Woodward and Bernstein were innocent despite the theft of the Pentagon Papers being illegal.

    I’d presume Gab is will be held criminally liable for violating the onerous Anti-Semitism bans in Germany, France, etc.
     
    Such judgements cannot be enforced in the USA (yet).

    Presumably they will order the ISPs to block the site
     
    The greater the knowledge of, and market for, VPNs, the more impotent the national censors become.  I'm waiting for the organized program to doxx the censors and make their lives utterly hellish to the point that nobody would dare take the job.

    Replies: @216

  45. @Audacious Epigone
    @Sid

    Women should be warned--well, in a healthy society its salience is obvious to the extent it would be ubiquitously known and understood--that depending on how they age that sometime in their late 20s through their mid-30s they will rapidly become invisible to a huge percentage of the population if they don't have a family of their own.

    Harsh truth--but the consequences for many young women who are unaware of it is orders of magnitude harsher still.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @iffen

    Regardless of what you “happy family” types assert, DINKS have a desirable lifestyle. Capable women do quite well on their own which is some sort of “equality” with capable men who have been living large for many generations.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @iffen

    Troll: UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    Factual description of reality. That's what threw you off.

    Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian, @Oleaginous Outrager

    , @dc.sunsets
    @iffen

    Interesting assertion.

    My biological mother was, for all practical purposes, childless.

    She married a man who had kids, and never had any of her own with him. They were careerists and managers and traveled the world for the firm. He died before I met her.

    When she had a stroke at about age 70 no one noticed her absence so she spent three days face down on the kitchen floor. Her condition rendered her unable to continue being the open-checkbook patron of an animal rescue movement so her "friends" from that evaporated. Her step children were essentially strangers and her abrasiveness (a trait I blamed on her never having what I defined as an actual family and actual children) had already led to my distancing myself.

    She died in a nursing home, basically alone. Her brothers had her beloved dogs euthanized immediately (when she entered the nursing home), preparing to liquidate her remaining estate. I'm not sure anyone even showed to any kind of service or funeral...I wasn't invited to one.

    You assert that DINKs have a lot of stuff, and are happy for it. A big house? Expensive cars? A boat? A beachfront condo? Yeah, I could easily have one or all of these...but I'd rather assure myself of a dignified sail into the sunset.

    I get down on the floor and play with toddler grandchildren. Their eyes light up when they see me coming into their houses or when they walk into mine. A day of play leaves me exhausted...and happy.

    Anyone who thinks sitting on the balcony of a West Florida condo is as fun as that is ignorant beyond description, most likely because they're still under 50 and delude themselves into thinking that young adults of the opposite sex are attracted to them.

    It's common to live to the late 80's now. Imagine what those last 30 years are like...ALONE, where your companions are (1) other fossils, (2) parasites looking for a handout or (3) cats.

    Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian, @iffen

  46. 216 says:

    More o/t

    https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2019/05/28/should-all-the-mlk-statues-come-down/

    h/t Peter Brimelow

    CALLER: Mr. Limbaugh, it’s an honor to speak to one of the greatest men in this generation. Thanks for having me on. My question is this. With all the information coming out about Martin Luther King, do you think the left will use this as an opportunity to turn on him? Because if you study King fundamentally his message is one of religious conviction and about each individual person coming from God, like you speak about. And the left, that’s completely contrasting to the left’s modern message. Do you think the left will use this to neutralize and dismiss King?
    RUSH: Now, the initial reaction to your question would be, “No way. They got way too much invested in Dr. King. They’re never, ever gonna turn their back for obvious reasons.” However, there’s a — what would you call it? — generational shift. And to Millennials and others, some of the defining and tent pole identities and characteristics of, say, the Democrat Party, the civil rights movement, are not nearly as valuable or valued or heavy as they were to previous generations.

    This is the fundamental problem with Boomercons, they continue to believe in things that are objectively false, which can be discovered in under five minutes of internet searching.

    It’s not as if its hard to recall the easy one of how MLK called the half-Jewish Barry Goldwater “Hitler”. (Goldwater also cucked to him a few years later)

    • Replies: @Noman
    @216

    Caller: "Mr. Limbaugh, it’s an honor to speak to one of the greatest men in this generation."
    Caller is delusional.

  47. Just proves that having children is not a path to personal happiness.
    Would you really want to bring a child into this effed up world?
    Until there is a catastrophic change in how the world is run, with a period of chaos that would follow and the current rulers are denied power and position, nothing will change for the better.
    True happiness would mean less conspicuous consumption for self gratification in an attempt to achieve pseudo happiness from corporate products. Lower profit for the trillionaire owners. Therefore cannot have a satisfied population.
    The elites are now establishing “space forces” to defend against threats from space, they are hedging their control of the population with a defense against a giant meteor.
    Since the meme of voting for “Giant Meteor” appeared in 2016, these space defense announcements have proliferated. BTW “defense” means “weapons”, which up until this linguistic twist were banned from space. “It’s for the Children and to secure Humanity.” A global Patriot Act.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    @Noman

    "Would you really want to bring a child into this effed up world?"

    The statement itself has nothing to do with children of the effed up world we live in. It's a justification for people to avoid responsibility and remain selfish throughout their lifetime. Selfish cowards have been spouting this rhetoric since I can remember. If they really believed it, they would just put a gun in their mouths and get it over with.

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @Noman

    Others have done more with less.

    We owe it to our ancestors to give our descendants a chance. After all, they gave us one.

  48. @Mr. Rational
    @216


    Is there a possibility that one of the Euro governments indicts A. Torba and files an extradition request?
     
    Sure, they could do it.  But getting a US court to honor it?  It would take a cheap lawyer 5 minutes to get the Totalitarian Republic of Mindfuckistan told to go pound sand.  Torba is a US citizen and no other government on earth has extraterritorial jurisdiction over him.

    Torba does not strike me as the kind of person who worries about being unable to travel to various PC jurisdictions.  He's more the type to let them fume impotently.

    Replies: @216, @Noman

    “But getting a US court to honor it?”
    Depends on who benefits.
    If Zionism benefits, it will be okayed.
    If Zionism wants Gab shutdown, it will happen.
    More likely would be a hidden change of ownership to an approved social media corporation through shell corporations.
    Gab could become infested with agents provocateur to stir up trouble, like undercover police agents breaking windows during a peaceful protest march.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Noman

    Maybe the extradition request would get Trump to create a Gab account.

    Replies: @216

  49. @Oblivionrecurs
    @Audacious Epigone

    Imagine how miserable millennials are going to be when they die old and alone

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @prime noticer

    “Imagine how miserable millennials are going to be when they die old and alone”

    they won’t be alone. they’ll be surrounded by cheerful vibrants.

    rooting for their death.

    • Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    @prime noticer

    The vibrants will be more than willing to lend an extra hand.

    That's why having 10 white children is a great insurance policy. You get a huge family to care for you even in an effed up time.

  50. @216
    More o/t

    https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2019/05/28/should-all-the-mlk-statues-come-down/

    h/t Peter Brimelow

    CALLER: Mr. Limbaugh, it’s an honor to speak to one of the greatest men in this generation. Thanks for having me on. My question is this. With all the information coming out about Martin Luther King, do you think the left will use this as an opportunity to turn on him? Because if you study King fundamentally his message is one of religious conviction and about each individual person coming from God, like you speak about. And the left, that’s completely contrasting to the left’s modern message. Do you think the left will use this to neutralize and dismiss King?
    RUSH: Now, the initial reaction to your question would be, “No way. They got way too much invested in Dr. King. They’re never, ever gonna turn their back for obvious reasons.” However, there’s a — what would you call it? — generational shift. And to Millennials and others, some of the defining and tent pole identities and characteristics of, say, the Democrat Party, the civil rights movement, are not nearly as valuable or valued or heavy as they were to previous generations.
     
    This is the fundamental problem with Boomercons, they continue to believe in things that are objectively false, which can be discovered in under five minutes of internet searching.

    It's not as if its hard to recall the easy one of how MLK called the half-Jewish Barry Goldwater "Hitler". (Goldwater also cucked to him a few years later)

    Replies: @Noman

    Caller: “Mr. Limbaugh, it’s an honor to speak to one of the greatest men in this generation.”
    Caller is delusional.

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
  51. anonymous[389] • Disclaimer says:

    My BS detector went off immediately when I heard about this supposed study. I surmise a lot of unsuspecting people might take it as being true since ‘study’ implies some sort of science being involved. It’s enough to make a person vaguely paranoid about some central committee somewhere making sure that globo-homo stories get a good public run.

  52. @Truth
    How many kids do you have, Audie?

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    And how many do you have?

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    Better question: How many does he know about?

    Replies: @Truth

    , @Truth
    @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    One, but I'm involved with a much younger woman not much older than he, so there is a strong possibility of at least one more.

  53. @Oblivionrecurs
    I've noticed an usually large explosions in those expressing a disgust for children and a justification of the childless movement in the last several months, particularly with the release of the report we only have 12 years to stop catastrophic climate change (i'd love a study of which demographic is most susceptible to this)

    The rate of which people are emulating the same sentiment, is very reminiscent of the initial stages of the SJW privilege culture movement that began in 2014.

    The fertility rate will increasingly decline

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    Agreed. This whole “environmentalist” “movement” seemed to pop up out of nowhere. Now the whole narrative is about the Greens rising in Europe. I suspect that it is not an organic movement; it was created as a cover for the rising right in Europe. It’s also a great way to get young women interested in voting, who might not otherwise vote. Don’t get me wrong – the people are sincere (idiots)… but the movement itself is being forced by tptb.

    As for the childfree movement, I can’t really say I’ve heard a huge uptick in people justifying their childfree lifestyle. Everyone over 30 at work has 2-3 kids and talks about them all the time. That said, I live in somewhat of a “backwater ” (AKA a healthy, natural place) so I’m not too connected to the hip urban zeitgeist. Would not surprise me though, you see almost no children in downtown Toronto.

    As far as young women, yeah I guess I know a whole bunch that are under 25 that really seem to pathologically hate kids. They bitch on Twitter about how they never want kids, how they would get an abortion, etc. One thing I will say is that this does not uniquely affect white women – this affects all races raised in the West.

    Oh well – these childless white women only have so long until they’re made into Subcontinental sex slaves. Pity.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    @UrbaneFrancoOntarian


    This whole “environmentalist” “movement” seemed to pop up out of nowhere.
     
    Where have you been?  Living under a rock?  Environmentalism was old when I was born, and I am far from young.  The concern about climate change dates back to Svante Arrhenius in the 19th century.

    The bogus socialism-and-third-world-redistribution prescription is new, but everything else about the concern is old.  (How do socialism and redistribution to the turd world fix climate change?  Not at all.  That's how you know the movement has been hijacked in service to a hostile agenda.)

    Now the whole narrative is about the Greens rising in Europe.
     
    The Greens are more accurately called Watermelons:  green on the outside, red on the inside.  They, or rather their handlers, are driving the nonsense policy prescriptions.  If you can identify any of the handlers, you know what to do.

    Replies: @Oblivionrecurs

  54. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Oblivionrecurs


    ... particularly with the release of the report we only have 12 years to stop catastrophic climate change...
     
    You can't take all this stuff so seriously. Come on, look at the source:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHjgDHTeCto

    Replies: @Cloudbuster, @UrbaneFrancoOntarian, @Oblivionrecurs

    At least AOC is one brown, feminist, childless woman that won’t be reproducing. Hopefully she encourages all ‘Ricans to follow her lead. The evidence suggests it is working – the TFR in Puerto Rico is now around 1!!

    • Replies: @dvorak
    @UrbaneFrancoOntarian


    At least AOC is one brown, feminist, childless woman that won’t be reproducing.
     
    She's dating a delightful, socialist redhead.
  55. @Audacious Epigone
    @Oblivionrecurs

    Yes, it's shameful that so many of these women start thinking about the last five decades of their lives for the first time when they hit 32. Going to work, drink, travel the world, and binge watch Netflix when you're 45? 55? 65? That's a long, long time to be invisible.

    Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian, @Oblivionrecurs

    Meanwhile for men who had their babies at 25, that’s when the easy life really begins!

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  56. @prime noticer
    @Oblivionrecurs

    "Imagine how miserable millennials are going to be when they die old and alone"

    they won't be alone. they'll be surrounded by cheerful vibrants.

    rooting for their death.

    Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    The vibrants will be more than willing to lend an extra hand.

    That’s why having 10 white children is a great insurance policy. You get a huge family to care for you even in an effed up time.

  57. 216 says:

    https://cis.org/Miano/11-Years-and-Counting-Lawsuit-Challenging-OPT-Guestworker-Program?&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=addtoany

    Scroll down to the comments

    Subcontinental Rage

    https://www.facebook.com/FSinanSahin

    Works at Google, funny I wonder how many older white Americans were victims of Google age discrimination.

    https://www.facebook.com/TitoMitra

    Exactly the people we need, fresh off the boat and full of anti-white racism. For extra fun, he’s a BJP supporter.

  58. @Twinkie
    @Audacious Epigone


    Three. Nothing makes me happier than they do.
     
    Have another one. I mentioned this before, but three under age five to six is absolutely the most difficult, but then it gets better, much better after that.

    In fact, have more after the next one - you will eventually have built-in babysitters with the older children. Nowadays my oldest child makes breakfast and lunch for the rest of the children. My second oldest reviews much of the homeschooling work the little ones do. It's getting embarrassingly easy for my wife and me (except for shuttling the children to the various athletic and extracurricular activities - we have something for somebody everyday).

    You should have so many children that there are cliques among the children. It's pretty fun and funny (for me anyway).

    Not only is my wife very fulfilled and happy, because of our children, we know so many mothers in our social circle who are breaming and beaming with joy, because of their children.

    On the other hand, we know two childless couples and one single woman pretty well. The childless couples are always traveling and doing hobbies (and spoiling their pets to ridiculous degrees - one of the couples has a dog with its own bedroom, bed, and stairs to the said bed, etc.). We have noted that the two couples have grown apart and seemingly constantly annoyed with each other. They have become like roommates. Frankly, they look a bit sad. And the single woman is absolutely desperate, yet extremely picky. She turns down every guy she meets, but is always complaining about lack of men. She is freezing her eggs.

    Of course, one thing I should note is that having "children = happiness" may be both causal and self-selection. I do think that, on average, having children makes women happier. On other hand, there are some women who are wired wrongly and become absolutely miserable with taking care of even one child. Some women are meant to be that childless shrew of an aunt, I guess. :)

    Replies: @Logan, @Rosie, @Mark G., @Budd Dwyer, @Audacious Epigone, @Almost Missouri, @SFG

    “She is freezing her eggs.”

    Sounds like her eggs—along with her other feminine attributes—are already pretty much frozen.

  59. @dc.sunsets
    So many ways today for people to self-nominate for a Darwin Award.

    Of course, choosing to remain childless is the slow path to deleting ones DNA from the Tree of Humanity, but it's just as sure as cliff-diving in shallow water before leaving progeny.

    The future is there for those of us who leave descendants who'll show up for it. I am really not all that worried about what my descendants will do to cope with the consequences of the last 50 years of mass stupidity. My ancestors survived worse.

    I will aver that this boundary-less world is nasty. The best parents in the world have a hard time walling out the poison when it arrives on ethernet cables either directly or via "friends." I wonder if all of my granddaughters will be properly equipped to laugh (at least on the inside) when some brain-dead classmate calls each of them a becky for refraining from some stupidity?

    It'll take real spine (and a sense of self based on real accomplishment) to ignore The World. At least my granddaughters will have heard two of my favorite mantras:

    1. Everything you do becomes a part of you. (So don't do a bunch of stupid stuff impulsively as a kid or adolescent that you'll later regret.)
    2. Being different for the sake of being different is the essence of conformity. If everyone else gets a banal tattoo on their ass, wrist, foot, etc. to show how unique they are, just how "unique" are they?

    A trip to the store or a park now reveals that not only are my wife and me the last two non-Pod-People on Earth without a FB or TWIT account, we're also the last people who said, "No thanks" to a trip to the tattoo parlor.

    F-ing sheep. Can't wait to see what that cute little bunny on her ankle looks like in 40 years. I guess all those tatted-up freaks figure they'll have secured their Darwin Award long before that time arrives.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @Almost Missouri

    Sadly, I don’t think the tat-insanity will abate until nursing homes are full of sagging-tattooed old bags. Then it will suddenly dawn on the vain young trend-setters that tattoos=old saggy irrelevant dotards. Then inking will seem about as cutting-edge as the Lawrence Welk Show seemed to the hippies.

    And so the young will replace tattoos with some other vapidity. Will it also dawn on them that tattoos=reliable marker for poor life choices, and that nursing homes full of aging slores with distended ink attended by hostile third-worlders are an object lesson they would do well to heed?

    Well, I won’t bet on it.

  60. @Noman
    @Mr. Rational

    "But getting a US court to honor it?"
    Depends on who benefits.
    If Zionism benefits, it will be okayed.
    If Zionism wants Gab shutdown, it will happen.
    More likely would be a hidden change of ownership to an approved social media corporation through shell corporations.
    Gab could become infested with agents provocateur to stir up trouble, like undercover police agents breaking windows during a peaceful protest march.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    Maybe the extradition request would get Trump to create a Gab account.

    • Replies: @216
    @Audacious Epigone

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bxh7zbxBqfy/

    This is Ivanka Trump pictured with Mark Benioff, who threatened the state of Indiana with economic destruction for not kowtowing to GayPride.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BxyUGP-BZJQ/

    This is Ivanka Trump being rewarded by Silicon Don lobbyists.

    Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike, @Feryl, @Feryl

  61. @iffen
    @Audacious Epigone

    Regardless of what you "happy family" types assert, DINKS have a desirable lifestyle. Capable women do quite well on their own which is some sort of "equality" with capable men who have been living large for many generations.

    Replies: @iffen, @dc.sunsets

    Troll: UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    Factual description of reality. That’s what threw you off.

    • Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    @iffen

    Cope.

    If you're white, have some babies. Until then, I'm assuming that you're just a beta who doesn't produce any sperm.

    , @Oleaginous Outrager
    @iffen

    Baseless assertion, with far too much confidence in its truth.. That's what makes it trolling.

    Replies: @iffen

  62. @Audacious Epigone
    @Noman

    Maybe the extradition request would get Trump to create a Gab account.

    Replies: @216

    This is Ivanka Trump pictured with Mark Benioff, who threatened the state of Indiana with economic destruction for not kowtowing to GayPride.

    This is Ivanka Trump being rewarded by Silicon Don lobbyists.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    @216

    For me she was the first red flag that Trump was going to fall well short of his campaign promises. The woman has no business within 100 miles of the white house and should go back to producing Walmart caliber fashion items.

    Obd why ang would be a better advisor.

    , @Feryl
    @216

    First, back in the 70's, "conservatives" had to recognize the imperative of "uplifting" blacks and women from their traditional station in life. We can piss and moan about liberals creating these ideas, but at what point does the Right take responsibility for not effectively fighting back? And the 70's were the "right turn" for American politics, anyway (protectionism began to decline, unions began to fall out of favor, public support for mass incarceration increased, people on welfare were attacked for being lazy bums, etc.).

    In the 80's, it was then onto "uplifting" foreigners from their blighted homelands, importing them into the first world. The Right did nothing to oppose, or even really question, this development.

    In the 90's and 2000's, it was then onto "uplifting" homosexuals. This did in fact arouse superficial opposition, because there is a sense of disgust here that isn't necessarily present with blacks/women/immigrants. In fact, "liberals" like Clinton and Obama were rather demure in their approach to gay issues, fearing being seen as too liberal before circa 2010. Yet it's plainly obvious that the Right (!) has been pandering to gays since the 80's, what with the 1980's yuppie and campus preppie Young Republican movements* being blatantly decadent and full of gays**.

    In the 2010's, after the Right abdicated it's responsibility for decades, we now have moved onto "uplifting" trannies. The mind reels. What's next, pedophiles?

    *Even the 1960's counter-culture was much tougher and braver than the corporatist weenies who've set the Republican agenda since the 80's; note that risible statements from people like Paul Ryan that we shouldn't "tell" any company how to run their affairs. Get lost, you pathetic suck ups and wimps. We shouldn't let nerds with nice hair cuts run our affairs, what a bunch of baloney.

    **the Log Cabin Republican movement which has existed for over 20 years is literally a gay Republican PAC; Ken Mehlman eventually came out as gay (he was RNC Chairman in the 2000's), Larry Craig was exposed as gay, and countless others have been forced out of the closet by scandals.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    , @Feryl
    @216

    Let's also not forget that hushed up scandal, that threatened to break in the late 80's, about the late Reagan era and GHW Bush era giving rise to a culture of older gay figures exploiting young male congressional pages. Of course, New Dealer Nixon told his associates off the record that homosexual domination of our affairs goes hand and hand with a society decaying. And pre-Boomers, in the 1970's and 80's, tended to be very suspicious of gays. As the New Dealers diminished in influence, and the corporatist Right became more popular, gays felt more emboldened.

  63. @216
    @Audacious Epigone

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bxh7zbxBqfy/

    This is Ivanka Trump pictured with Mark Benioff, who threatened the state of Indiana with economic destruction for not kowtowing to GayPride.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BxyUGP-BZJQ/

    This is Ivanka Trump being rewarded by Silicon Don lobbyists.

    Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike, @Feryl, @Feryl

    For me she was the first red flag that Trump was going to fall well short of his campaign promises. The woman has no business within 100 miles of the white house and should go back to producing Walmart caliber fashion items.

    Obd why ang would be a better advisor.

  64. @iffen
    @iffen

    Troll: UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    Factual description of reality. That's what threw you off.

    Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian, @Oleaginous Outrager

    Cope.

    If you’re white, have some babies. Until then, I’m assuming that you’re just a beta who doesn’t produce any sperm.

    • Troll: 216
  65. @Budd Dwyer
    @Twinkie


    On the other hand, we know two childless couples and one single woman pretty well. The childless couples are always traveling and doing hobbies (and spoiling their pets to ridiculous degrees – one of the couples has a dog with its own bedroom, bed, and stairs to the said bed, etc.). We have noted that the two couples have grown apart and seemingly constantly annoyed with each other. They have become like roommates. Frankly, they look a bit sad. And the single woman is absolutely desperate, yet extremely picky. She turns down every guy she meets, but is always complaining about lack of men. She is freezing her eggs.
     
    I would’ve liked to have had eight kids. My wife and I are practicing Catholics and believe the purpose of marriage is to have children. I was engaged to my wife— hate having to say it but it was the first marriage for both of us— when she got uterine cancer which required a hysterectomy. It devastated her and me that we could never have children. We accepted that God had a reason for it. We got married in the Church three months later (after pre-Cana, planning, etc.) and have been married for many years now. Years ago we talked about adoption but it is not easy or cheap. So, we are childless. It makes me sad writing those words.

    Chesterton and PJB never had children and I imagine for them, like me, it was never their choice but God’s.

    Replies: @dvorak, @Twinkie, @MarkinPNW

    Years ago we talked about adoption but it is not easy or cheap. So, we are childless. It makes me sad writing those words.

    Adopting a baby is overrated. Why each take on the equivalent of a 40 hour/wk home health care aide job if the kid doesn’t have your DNA?

    Adopting a tween is underrated. http://www.adoptuskids.org

  66. @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    @Achmed E. Newman

    At least AOC is one brown, feminist, childless woman that won't be reproducing. Hopefully she encourages all 'Ricans to follow her lead. The evidence suggests it is working - the TFR in Puerto Rico is now around 1!!

    Replies: @dvorak

    At least AOC is one brown, feminist, childless woman that won’t be reproducing.

    She’s dating a delightful, socialist redhead.

  67. @Anonymous
    @216

    If he really believes it, why doesn’t Macron cut the pay-per-birth benefits? Benefits in France likely increase with each additional birth in a household that stays under the earned-income limits, just like they do in the USA. He doesn’t do it because of the flow of cheap labor for dual-high-earner parents that this welfare rigging of the labor market provides. The system hurts lots of citizens, particularly those with one earned-only income stream and no kids under 18.

    The immigrant servants of the wealthy dual earners game the system in a different way, mostly with male breadwinners who stay under the programs’ income limits and big families with pooled resources.

    Few of the working women married to high-earning men produce the amount of value it takes to get a salary high enough to ensure that the NannyCam-surveilled babysitters or low-wage daycare workers who raise their kids have high enough pay to cover the rent for a tiny apartment. Married working women mostly just concentrate wealth while retaining above-firing, absenteeism-friendly jobs, where no parent can be fired for prolonged and frequent periods of time off in excess of her Paid Time Off and pregnancy leave.

    The dual-earner households and the welfare-rigged labor market of the fake-feminist era are mostly a wealth-redistribution program to make sure that people with kids under 18 take....it....all.

    It’s not working out too well in the USA, where 95 million citizens (16 to 65) are out of the labor force, another 7 million or so file new applications for Unemployment Compensation each month, and half of all “employed” persons just work part time. Most of them are moms—either married moms supplementing spousal income in low-stress voted-best-for-moms jobs with wanton absenteeism laxity for moms or single moms, making sure to stay under the earned-income limits for welfare programs that cover their rent, their food and their electricity bills, with monthly cash assistance and up to $6,431 in refundable child tax credits on top.

    Amazingly, the greedy and discriminatory weath concentration in crony-parent dual-earner households is not enough for the take-it-all / have-it-all married moms.

    They must have non-refundable child tax credits on top of it to finance one more excused, two-week vacation getaway while at-their-beck-and-call grandparents keep their kids. Of course, they’re happy. They’re happy in retiremement, too, since they sacrificed nothing in the way of multiple large and small luxuries or time off to build up what amounts to 4 streams of retirement income. But the vast majority of single, childless citizens and single citizens with kids over 18, living on earned-only income from one stream, cannot afford anything (even rent). Nope, it does not lead to happiness.

    Replies: @216

    I don’t know the specifics of French welfare statism, a question better asked of a Francopoaster, who I haven’t seen on here for months.

    E. Macron was specifically commenting on births in the Sahel, which has the highest TFRs on a nation-state level.

    http://en.rfi.fr/africa/20180705-macron-says-long-run-solution-africa-migration-africa

  68. @216
    @Mr. Rational

    IIRC, there was a prominent case a few years back where an autistic British hacker was extradited to the US, even though he had never been physically present in the US.

    The US is requesting extradition of Julian Assange. If the UK must honor a US request, doesn't it work both ways?

    I'd presume Gab is will be held criminally liable for violating the onerous Anti-Semitism bans in Germany, France, etc. Presumably they will order the ISPs to block the site, which VPNs could get around.

    Replies: @Mr. Rational

    IIRC, there was a prominent case a few years back where an autistic British hacker was extradited to the US, even though he had never been physically present in the US.

    Unauthorized computer intrusion is a crime in the USA as in most places.  The US can extradite people for committing a recognized crime in another jurisdiction.

    The US is requesting extradition of Julian Assange. If the UK must honor a US request, doesn’t it work both ways?

    That’s a bit shadier, but Assange is accused of assisting someone to hack into data.  It’s not a case of Assange being provided the product of hacked data without being involved in the intrusion; that would leave him innocent, like Woodward and Bernstein were innocent despite the theft of the Pentagon Papers being illegal.

    I’d presume Gab is will be held criminally liable for violating the onerous Anti-Semitism bans in Germany, France, etc.

    Such judgements cannot be enforced in the USA (yet).

    Presumably they will order the ISPs to block the site

    The greater the knowledge of, and market for, VPNs, the more impotent the national censors become.  I’m waiting for the organized program to doxx the censors and make their lives utterly hellish to the point that nobody would dare take the job.

    • Replies: @216
    @Mr. Rational

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksverhetzung#Application_to_offences_committed_abroad


    Offences, that are committed in accordance with § 130 of the Criminal Code abroad, whether by German nationals or foreigners, can be pursued as a domestic crime, when they so act, as if they had been committed within the country, affecting the public peace in Germany and violate the human dignity of German citizens. It is sufficient, for example, that criminal content on the Internet, for example in the form of a HTML page, can be accessed from Germany.
     
    Again, from the layman perspective, this reads that a terror attack/riot in Germany found to have links to Gab could conceivably ensnare Torba and others running the Gab site. A US court could deny the extradition, but I'd imagine that would depend on partisanship. A Dem President's DOJ might be expected to argue in favor of extradition, and how likely is it that a federal judge would rule against them in a "crisis atmosphere".

    Replies: @Mr. Rational

  69. 216 says:
    @Mr. Rational
    @216


    IIRC, there was a prominent case a few years back where an autistic British hacker was extradited to the US, even though he had never been physically present in the US.
     
    Unauthorized computer intrusion is a crime in the USA as in most places.  The US can extradite people for committing a recognized crime in another jurisdiction.

    The US is requesting extradition of Julian Assange. If the UK must honor a US request, doesn’t it work both ways?
     
    That's a bit shadier, but Assange is accused of assisting someone to hack into data.  It's not a case of Assange being provided the product of hacked data without being involved in the intrusion; that would leave him innocent, like Woodward and Bernstein were innocent despite the theft of the Pentagon Papers being illegal.

    I’d presume Gab is will be held criminally liable for violating the onerous Anti-Semitism bans in Germany, France, etc.
     
    Such judgements cannot be enforced in the USA (yet).

    Presumably they will order the ISPs to block the site
     
    The greater the knowledge of, and market for, VPNs, the more impotent the national censors become.  I'm waiting for the organized program to doxx the censors and make their lives utterly hellish to the point that nobody would dare take the job.

    Replies: @216

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksverhetzung#Application_to_offences_committed_abroad

    Offences, that are committed in accordance with § 130 of the Criminal Code abroad, whether by German nationals or foreigners, can be pursued as a domestic crime, when they so act, as if they had been committed within the country, affecting the public peace in Germany and violate the human dignity of German citizens. It is sufficient, for example, that criminal content on the Internet, for example in the form of a HTML page, can be accessed from Germany.

    Again, from the layman perspective, this reads that a terror attack/riot in Germany found to have links to Gab could conceivably ensnare Torba and others running the Gab site. A US court could deny the extradition, but I’d imagine that would depend on partisanship. A Dem President’s DOJ might be expected to argue in favor of extradition, and how likely is it that a federal judge would rule against them in a “crisis atmosphere”.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    @216


    Again, from the layman perspective, this reads that a terror attack/riot in Germany found to have links to Gab could conceivably ensnare Torba and others running the Gab site.
     
    We're not talking about "terror offenses", which involve physical harm or threats thereof.  We are talking about words that some people hate ("hate speech" is not speech about hate, it's speech that certain people hate).

    Denying that Six Million Jews Died In Extermination Camps harms no one.  It grossly offends, damages and threatens (with irrelevance) some people whose grip on power depends on that claim, but it does not cause actual harm to anyone.  Some people deserve to be offended and irrelevant.  White Americans in their homeland are NOT in this set.  Mexicans, Muslims and Jews in America are.
  70. @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    @Oblivionrecurs

    Agreed. This whole "environmentalist" "movement" seemed to pop up out of nowhere. Now the whole narrative is about the Greens rising in Europe. I suspect that it is not an organic movement; it was created as a cover for the rising right in Europe. It's also a great way to get young women interested in voting, who might not otherwise vote. Don't get me wrong - the people are sincere (idiots)... but the movement itself is being forced by tptb.

    As for the childfree movement, I can't really say I've heard a huge uptick in people justifying their childfree lifestyle. Everyone over 30 at work has 2-3 kids and talks about them all the time. That said, I live in somewhat of a "backwater " (AKA a healthy, natural place) so I'm not too connected to the hip urban zeitgeist. Would not surprise me though, you see almost no children in downtown Toronto.

    As far as young women, yeah I guess I know a whole bunch that are under 25 that really seem to pathologically hate kids. They bitch on Twitter about how they never want kids, how they would get an abortion, etc. One thing I will say is that this does not uniquely affect white women - this affects all races raised in the West.

    Oh well - these childless white women only have so long until they're made into Subcontinental sex slaves. Pity.

    Replies: @Mr. Rational

    This whole “environmentalist” “movement” seemed to pop up out of nowhere.

    Where have you been?  Living under a rock?  Environmentalism was old when I was born, and I am far from young.  The concern about climate change dates back to Svante Arrhenius in the 19th century.

    The bogus socialism-and-third-world-redistribution prescription is new, but everything else about the concern is old.  (How do socialism and redistribution to the turd world fix climate change?  Not at all.  That’s how you know the movement has been hijacked in service to a hostile agenda.)

    Now the whole narrative is about the Greens rising in Europe.

    The Greens are more accurately called Watermelons:  green on the outside, red on the inside.  They, or rather their handlers, are driving the nonsense policy prescriptions.  If you can identify any of the handlers, you know what to do.

    • Replies: @Oblivionrecurs
    @Mr. Rational

    Greens are so fucking useless, imagine supporting policies that have raised emissions and justifying brownouts.

    And doing it repeatedly after such failures in California, Vermont, and Germany

  71. @216
    @Mr. Rational

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksverhetzung#Application_to_offences_committed_abroad


    Offences, that are committed in accordance with § 130 of the Criminal Code abroad, whether by German nationals or foreigners, can be pursued as a domestic crime, when they so act, as if they had been committed within the country, affecting the public peace in Germany and violate the human dignity of German citizens. It is sufficient, for example, that criminal content on the Internet, for example in the form of a HTML page, can be accessed from Germany.
     
    Again, from the layman perspective, this reads that a terror attack/riot in Germany found to have links to Gab could conceivably ensnare Torba and others running the Gab site. A US court could deny the extradition, but I'd imagine that would depend on partisanship. A Dem President's DOJ might be expected to argue in favor of extradition, and how likely is it that a federal judge would rule against them in a "crisis atmosphere".

    Replies: @Mr. Rational

    Again, from the layman perspective, this reads that a terror attack/riot in Germany found to have links to Gab could conceivably ensnare Torba and others running the Gab site.

    We’re not talking about “terror offenses”, which involve physical harm or threats thereof.  We are talking about words that some people hate (“hate speech” is not speech about hate, it’s speech that certain people hate).

    Denying that Six Million Jews Died In Extermination Camps harms no one.  It grossly offends, damages and threatens (with irrelevance) some people whose grip on power depends on that claim, but it does not cause actual harm to anyone.  Some people deserve to be offended and irrelevant.  White Americans in their homeland are NOT in this set.  Mexicans, Muslims and Jews in America are.

  72. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Oblivionrecurs


    ... particularly with the release of the report we only have 12 years to stop catastrophic climate change...
     
    You can't take all this stuff so seriously. Come on, look at the source:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHjgDHTeCto

    Replies: @Cloudbuster, @UrbaneFrancoOntarian, @Oblivionrecurs

    Spend more than 15 mins in leftist meme groups on social media and you’ll see the 12 years of doom spread everywhere

    Its disturbing and suspect

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Oblivionrecurs


    It's disturbing and suspect.
     
    It's downright retarded, is what it is. (I'm trying to fit in with the lingo of these youngsters.)
  73. I suspect there are some misleading stats in the matter. I would be interested to know how many women who desire children, even without a spouse are perusing the internet answering such a survey.

    The marriage rate fell by 1/3 according to several sources from 77 per thousand to fifty per thousand women. Though even here that is misleading, because it does not indicate the desirability for marriage just the actual marriage occurrences. If I wanted to measure how many women were happy, I might want to examine desire to outcomes as opposed to only married couples.

    In addition, I think age is a factor here. Sure single women young and fancy free might express happiness, but that doesn’t really tell us much. Furthermore those same women single today in their 20’s and early 30’s may be living it up, but may eventually come to realize, they are missing something.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/195951/marriage-rate-in-the-united-states-since-1990/

    https://www.ibuzzle.com/articles/marriage-statistics.html

    in addition, it would be interesting to see how many women date or more men who have children from either previous marriage, previous relationships (out of wedlock births) or are widowed. The data is interesting. i am not moved by these numbers given the fifty year assault by liberals (mostly feminists) against men, women, family and tradition. There is still several million years of biology and social engineering to overcome and frankly, I don’t think its possible, whatever the configurations that may arrive in the future. Males and females are built to be in relationships and part of that comes the consequence of creation — the fact that women have been side tracked by the assurances of technology and male chivalry such that they can abandon a joyful perspective on the unique and vital contribution of bringing children into the community is a matter of choice, experience and a healthy perspective of the roles men and women have —

    Not having children is painful loss for me as a male as is not ever having located anyone who could put up with me – laughing – long enough to have children.

    Still, I fully support marriage and the important and joyful consequence of having children, with all of its troubles. until that day, I remain frustratingly celibate but in total support of family.

  74. @Mr. Rational
    @UrbaneFrancoOntarian


    This whole “environmentalist” “movement” seemed to pop up out of nowhere.
     
    Where have you been?  Living under a rock?  Environmentalism was old when I was born, and I am far from young.  The concern about climate change dates back to Svante Arrhenius in the 19th century.

    The bogus socialism-and-third-world-redistribution prescription is new, but everything else about the concern is old.  (How do socialism and redistribution to the turd world fix climate change?  Not at all.  That's how you know the movement has been hijacked in service to a hostile agenda.)

    Now the whole narrative is about the Greens rising in Europe.
     
    The Greens are more accurately called Watermelons:  green on the outside, red on the inside.  They, or rather their handlers, are driving the nonsense policy prescriptions.  If you can identify any of the handlers, you know what to do.

    Replies: @Oblivionrecurs

    Greens are so fucking useless, imagine supporting policies that have raised emissions and justifying brownouts.

    And doing it repeatedly after such failures in California, Vermont, and Germany

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  75. @Audacious Epigone
    @Oblivionrecurs

    Yes, it's shameful that so many of these women start thinking about the last five decades of their lives for the first time when they hit 32. Going to work, drink, travel the world, and binge watch Netflix when you're 45? 55? 65? That's a long, long time to be invisible.

    Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian, @Oblivionrecurs

    Interestingly enough possible human fertility plummets after 30 (studies show exposure to this fact boosts fertility)

    I’m interested in the long term health of millennials.

  76. @Logan
    @Twinkie

    My second daughter was born when the first was 14. Not intentionally, my wife had several miscarriages after the first and we thought it wasn't meant to be.

    The little one had two mommies and absolutely thrived on it. Big sister was ferociously protective.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @Twinkie

    The little one had two mommies and absolutely thrived on it. Big sister was ferociously protective.

    And that was good for the big sister, too, I would think. My older children are certainly better people for having taken (and continue to) care of their younger siblings.

  77. @Mark G.
    @Twinkie

    Many older single women fall into that category of women who complain about lack of men while turning down every guy they meet. As I've become older I've realized that no one is perfect and you can still have enjoyable relationships, romantic and otherwise, with imperfect people. Once I realized that, my happiness level increased.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @MikeatMikedotMike, @Anon

    Many older single women fall into that category of women who complain about lack of men while turning down every guy they meet.

    The sad thing is, the single woman to whom I referred above is actually quite attractive and well-educated. She is a generally pretty considerate person, too.

    But as she has gotten older and more desperate, her standards have risen, not declined. It’s almost as if she waited this long and passed on so many men that she now has to justify all that by having impossibly high standards. What’s even worse is that she has a very bad case of “the grass is greener on the other side of the fence” syndrome on top of all that. My wife is starting to get a tad bit creeped out by her constant complaints about single men she meets, followed by “Oh, you are so lucky, because you have such a great husband.” And I am not the only husband about whom she has said things of this sort.

    In other words, this lady is turning her nose up at all the available single men, but is beginning to get fixated on married men.* That is most assuredly not healthy and doesn’t bode well for the rest of the fecund period of her life.

    *Though my wife does half-jokingly say that married men are, by definition, pre-selected by other women and that means something for women on the hunt for men.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Twinkie

    Heartiste has referred to multiple studies showing that ceteris paribus women rate married men as more attractive than unmarried men.

    , @Justvisiting
    @Twinkie

    Your wife is speaking the simple truth. Women want men who are desired by other women. It is hard-wired. The best explanation I have read on it is that women are generally social creatures heavily influenced by the opinion of others. Many more men could care less what others think of their choices.

    That is why giving women the vote was a gigantic error that will end in tears for all such societies--women are much more subject to the mob mentality, a short term time horizon, more easily led by demagogues playing on emotions.

    Some lessons just have to be learned the hard way.

  78. @Anon
    @Audacious Epigone

    If children are you greatest joy, it seems you have a quite dull life. I don't recall Marc Aurelius writing similar lumpenprole sancta-simplicitas confessions. No surprise you are griping anonymously on the web about random imagined enemies - it must be that massive happiness.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Audacious Epigone

    If children are you greatest joy, it seems you have a quite dull life.

    Do tell me what “joyful” things you have done.

    I grew up in Asia and America. Did military service in two countries. Went to Ivy League universities. Worked as an investigator and did counter-terrorism on three continents. Worked on the Hill and got to know important politicians and elected officials. Started a business with my wife, grew it, and sold it and don’t have to work anymore. And I am on the board of a large healthcare system, having a hand in determining the fate of thousands of patients. I’ve done lots of exciting, dangerous, and fun things, and traveled all corners of the earth.

    None of those things, I mean absolutely none, measures up to seeing my children be born and witnessing their growth as human beings everyday. No, it’s not all cookies and cream raising children. It gets frustrating and stressful sometimes. So, occasionally, I do take a pack, pick up a rifle, and take my favorite dog and go up a mountain and “unwind” for a half a day or so.

    In all my travels, work, and living, I’ve seen lots of human ugliness – truly depraved and evil things. But I have seen some goodness too (and even holiness) and children most definitely form the most important part of what is good and beautiful in life.

    No surprise you are griping anonymously on the web about random imagined enemies – it must be that massive happiness.

    Don’t be a jackass.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Twinkie

    You're what I aspire to be (no homo, no irony).

    Replies: @Truth

  79. @Rosie
    @Twinkie


    Have another one. I mentioned this before, but three under age five to six is absolutely the most difficult, but then it gets better, much better after that.
     
    Very true.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    I had my first three in three years. So my wife and I had a 3-year old, a 1.5-year old, and a newborn.

    I never got deep sleep during that time, and everything from that period of my life is a bit of a haze. My wife thinks we have brain damage and memory loss from lack of sleep.

  80. @Anon
    @Sid

    Why would anyone have "great relationships with their nieces"? Who can stand 20 year younger people for more than a few minutes? Just being related doesn't make it any more interesting. It's still people from a completely different universe.

    I could spend a bit more time with an Australian abo, or some other exotic human, even if he is obviously dumb, since the difference could provide some entertainment. But seeing someone growing on the same planet, in a cultural environment similar to yours, and yet still talking about how they are concerned with about global warming, racial biases, gay rights, trade deficit - it should drive you nuts. It doesn't even mater if they are pro or against gay rights. If they are not gay, and they are concerned with gay rights, they are stupid. If they believe or deny global warming while living in a concrete building, more than 20 feet above the sea, they are stupid. If they never lived on minimum wage, why would they care about minimum wage? If they never lived on welfare, why would they care how high it is, and who gets it? (At least in US, it's the smallest part of taxes. And if you are so poor that a few dollars a month concern you, I don't think I want to talk to you. See below.) And so on. Why would I want to see myself, 20 years ago, concerned with idealistic, irrelevant stuff picked up from TV or the Net?

    Let alone that some of my nephews are working class, meaning they are even stupider. For example, who the fuck cares about motorbikes?

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Why would anyone have “great relationships with their nieces”? Who can stand 20 year younger people for more than a few minutes? Just being related doesn’t make it any more interesting. It’s still people from a completely different universe.

    I love my nephews and nieces. It’s not an issue of “interesting,” whatever that means. They are a part of my tribe – I love them and they love me. It’s as simple as that.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Twinkie

    I'd give my nephews money if they truly needed (say, for doctor bills), and couldn't get from their parents. I'd definitely help them get good jobs if they were in my field of work.

    But listening to them is as nauseating as listening to any other 20-year old.

    Expecting a woman smart enough to remain childless to tolerate those brats is naive. "Good relations with nieces" is synonymous with IVF.

    Replies: @Truth

  81. @Budd Dwyer
    @Twinkie


    On the other hand, we know two childless couples and one single woman pretty well. The childless couples are always traveling and doing hobbies (and spoiling their pets to ridiculous degrees – one of the couples has a dog with its own bedroom, bed, and stairs to the said bed, etc.). We have noted that the two couples have grown apart and seemingly constantly annoyed with each other. They have become like roommates. Frankly, they look a bit sad. And the single woman is absolutely desperate, yet extremely picky. She turns down every guy she meets, but is always complaining about lack of men. She is freezing her eggs.
     
    I would’ve liked to have had eight kids. My wife and I are practicing Catholics and believe the purpose of marriage is to have children. I was engaged to my wife— hate having to say it but it was the first marriage for both of us— when she got uterine cancer which required a hysterectomy. It devastated her and me that we could never have children. We accepted that God had a reason for it. We got married in the Church three months later (after pre-Cana, planning, etc.) and have been married for many years now. Years ago we talked about adoption but it is not easy or cheap. So, we are childless. It makes me sad writing those words.

    Chesterton and PJB never had children and I imagine for them, like me, it was never their choice but God’s.

    Replies: @dvorak, @Twinkie, @MarkinPNW

    when she got uterine cancer which required a hysterectomy. It devastated her and me that we could never have children. We accepted that God had a reason for it.

    I am very sorry to hear it – you and your wife indeed carry a very heavy cross. I sincerely hope that God rewards you richly in Paradise for your faith under such trying circumstances.

    My wife and I are practicing Catholics and believe the purpose of marriage is to have children.

    Well, it’s not just about having children. The Church teaches that the Sacrament of Marriage has two purposes – one is procreative, yes, but the other is unitive, for you and your wife are now one. Marriage offers us a foretaste of Heaven in this otherwise sad vale of tears we call life.

  82. @Audacious Epigone
    @Twinkie

    If you don't mind answering, how many do you have? It has unquestionably gotten much easier as my oldest has gotten older--he already helps a lot with the youngest. There are now three other families with children on our street with whom we're basically on an open door policy with during the day. My older two are already roaming, something I was afraid might not happen. Hopefully at least in some places we're starting to turn the corner from the helicoptering of the 90s and 2000s.

    Until our fertility window closes, nothing is final. I can imagine in ten or twenty years regretting only having three. It's hard to imagine regretting that I had a fourth, though!

    Replies: @Twinkie

    If you don’t mind answering, how many do you have?

    Sorry, but that is one question I hope to keep obscure online. But I do have a very large family by contemporary American standards, one that requires more than a minivan to carry.

    Until our fertility window closes, nothing is final. I can imagine in ten or twenty years regretting only having three. It’s hard to imagine regretting that I had a fourth, though!

    I have met many parents who regret not having more children. I have not met a single one who regrets having had too many. Then again, there is demographic and religious self-selection at work in my social associations.

    Just one bit of caution, though. Don’t think you have forever on that fertility. You never know what’s going to happen. It seemed like my wife and I could have children forever at one point and then suddenly – wham! – it stopped. We were quite sad about it for a while. Have more kids while the going is good! 🙂

  83. @Budd Dwyer
    @Twinkie


    On the other hand, we know two childless couples and one single woman pretty well. The childless couples are always traveling and doing hobbies (and spoiling their pets to ridiculous degrees – one of the couples has a dog with its own bedroom, bed, and stairs to the said bed, etc.). We have noted that the two couples have grown apart and seemingly constantly annoyed with each other. They have become like roommates. Frankly, they look a bit sad. And the single woman is absolutely desperate, yet extremely picky. She turns down every guy she meets, but is always complaining about lack of men. She is freezing her eggs.
     
    I would’ve liked to have had eight kids. My wife and I are practicing Catholics and believe the purpose of marriage is to have children. I was engaged to my wife— hate having to say it but it was the first marriage for both of us— when she got uterine cancer which required a hysterectomy. It devastated her and me that we could never have children. We accepted that God had a reason for it. We got married in the Church three months later (after pre-Cana, planning, etc.) and have been married for many years now. Years ago we talked about adoption but it is not easy or cheap. So, we are childless. It makes me sad writing those words.

    Chesterton and PJB never had children and I imagine for them, like me, it was never their choice but God’s.

    Replies: @dvorak, @Twinkie, @MarkinPNW

    My only child, a daughter and her husband, also have not been able to have children of their own. But they got involved in Foster care, with all the tribulations and blessing that brings. Out of 9 foster children over the years they have eventually been able to adopt 3 half-siblings. They are very much of a challenge, but also bring us (myself, my wife, my daughter and her husband) much joy.

    Foster care is not easy, with all the regulations and bureaucracy as well as trying to love and help “damaged” children, but it could also be a way to receive, and to give many blessings.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @MarkinPNW


    Foster care is not easy, with all the regulations and bureaucracy as well as trying to love and help “damaged” children, but it could also be a way to receive, and to give many blessings.
     
    This is a most Christian thing to read!
  84. @Oblivionrecurs
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Spend more than 15 mins in leftist meme groups on social media and you'll see the 12 years of doom spread everywhere

    Its disturbing and suspect

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    It’s disturbing and suspect.

    It’s downright retarded, is what it is. (I’m trying to fit in with the lingo of these youngsters.)

  85. @iffen
    @Audacious Epigone

    Regardless of what you "happy family" types assert, DINKS have a desirable lifestyle. Capable women do quite well on their own which is some sort of "equality" with capable men who have been living large for many generations.

    Replies: @iffen, @dc.sunsets

    Interesting assertion.

    My biological mother was, for all practical purposes, childless.

    She married a man who had kids, and never had any of her own with him. They were careerists and managers and traveled the world for the firm. He died before I met her.

    When she had a stroke at about age 70 no one noticed her absence so she spent three days face down on the kitchen floor. Her condition rendered her unable to continue being the open-checkbook patron of an animal rescue movement so her “friends” from that evaporated. Her step children were essentially strangers and her abrasiveness (a trait I blamed on her never having what I defined as an actual family and actual children) had already led to my distancing myself.

    She died in a nursing home, basically alone. Her brothers had her beloved dogs euthanized immediately (when she entered the nursing home), preparing to liquidate her remaining estate. I’m not sure anyone even showed to any kind of service or funeral…I wasn’t invited to one.

    You assert that DINKs have a lot of stuff, and are happy for it. A big house? Expensive cars? A boat? A beachfront condo? Yeah, I could easily have one or all of these…but I’d rather assure myself of a dignified sail into the sunset.

    I get down on the floor and play with toddler grandchildren. Their eyes light up when they see me coming into their houses or when they walk into mine. A day of play leaves me exhausted…and happy.

    Anyone who thinks sitting on the balcony of a West Florida condo is as fun as that is ignorant beyond description, most likely because they’re still under 50 and delude themselves into thinking that young adults of the opposite sex are attracted to them.

    It’s common to live to the late 80’s now. Imagine what those last 30 years are like…ALONE, where your companions are (1) other fossils, (2) parasites looking for a handout or (3) cats.

    • Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    @dc.sunsets

    Sex is only a momentary pleasure and dies down when you're around 50. Love lasts a lifetime. My number one goal in life is to have kids, be a dad, a grandad, and hopefully a great grandad. As a nice side benefit to this, large families with inter-generational wisdom is how you keep out the poz. Also - unless you're a 1% chad - love is the best path to sex. Married men have way more sex than single men. So quite frankly it's a win win.

    I'm not playing down the value of sex at all - but it's very clear that the 20 or 30 year old women who never want off the cock carousel have not looked very far into their future.

    Replies: @dc.sunsets

    , @iffen
    @dc.sunsets

    I didn’t say that I desired that lifestyle. I said that it was desirable for some people and they seem just as “happy” as anyone else. The same goes for some men and women who are not married. I just don’t get along with the narcissistic bloviations that contend that the only route to happiness is to be like me. I think that it likely conceals a lot of resentment, insecurity and disappointment and projecting is a way to deal with it.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @dc.sunsets

  86. @dc.sunsets
    @iffen

    Interesting assertion.

    My biological mother was, for all practical purposes, childless.

    She married a man who had kids, and never had any of her own with him. They were careerists and managers and traveled the world for the firm. He died before I met her.

    When she had a stroke at about age 70 no one noticed her absence so she spent three days face down on the kitchen floor. Her condition rendered her unable to continue being the open-checkbook patron of an animal rescue movement so her "friends" from that evaporated. Her step children were essentially strangers and her abrasiveness (a trait I blamed on her never having what I defined as an actual family and actual children) had already led to my distancing myself.

    She died in a nursing home, basically alone. Her brothers had her beloved dogs euthanized immediately (when she entered the nursing home), preparing to liquidate her remaining estate. I'm not sure anyone even showed to any kind of service or funeral...I wasn't invited to one.

    You assert that DINKs have a lot of stuff, and are happy for it. A big house? Expensive cars? A boat? A beachfront condo? Yeah, I could easily have one or all of these...but I'd rather assure myself of a dignified sail into the sunset.

    I get down on the floor and play with toddler grandchildren. Their eyes light up when they see me coming into their houses or when they walk into mine. A day of play leaves me exhausted...and happy.

    Anyone who thinks sitting on the balcony of a West Florida condo is as fun as that is ignorant beyond description, most likely because they're still under 50 and delude themselves into thinking that young adults of the opposite sex are attracted to them.

    It's common to live to the late 80's now. Imagine what those last 30 years are like...ALONE, where your companions are (1) other fossils, (2) parasites looking for a handout or (3) cats.

    Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian, @iffen

    Sex is only a momentary pleasure and dies down when you’re around 50. Love lasts a lifetime. My number one goal in life is to have kids, be a dad, a grandad, and hopefully a great grandad. As a nice side benefit to this, large families with inter-generational wisdom is how you keep out the poz. Also – unless you’re a 1% chad – love is the best path to sex. Married men have way more sex than single men. So quite frankly it’s a win win.

    I’m not playing down the value of sex at all – but it’s very clear that the 20 or 30 year old women who never want off the cock carousel have not looked very far into their future.

    • Replies: @dc.sunsets
    @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    Agreed. Almost everything popular today is an inversion of reality.

    Physical intimacy is a gift, it is THE means for deepening emotional intimacy. Those who habituate to the former while eschewing the latter are, in my opinion, dooming themselves to a lifetime of shallow emotional connections, and all but guarantee that their marriages, if they take that road, will be little more than cohabitation and occasional friends-with-benefits. For such people, evenings spent silently with their faces glued to their iPhags is the best they can hope for. Not my idea of a life worth living.

    As for women on the carousel, is it not obvious that we live in the Age of Perpetual Adolescence, where people play Peter Pan, living the lives of 14-year-olds who have credit cards and the freedom to destroy themselves one impulsive action after another? Many men and women refuse to grow up. It's astonishing and sad.

    But then again, humans have a phenomenally complex set of behavioral subroutines, some of which I believe serve as a means of self-culling when Nature's culling is paused. Lemmings, it turns out do not engage in mass suicide, but human beings most assuredly do so, both explicitly (Jim Jones' Peoples Temple or the Heaven's Gate cult) and implicitly via pursuit of social behaviors that predictably yield either zero or dysfunctional offspring.

    Nature is full of laws. And her laws are inviolable, no matter how stupid humans think they can legislate exceptions to them.

    Some people today are destroying themselves, fast or slow. Others march to a wiser beat, usually by rejecting the siren's song of Pop Culture. Only the latter will leave descendants who will show up to claim the future.

  87. @Rosie
    I continue my objection to the shallow "happiness" standard. First one thing, the word is ambiguous. One can mean all sorts of things by the term. Is a happy life:

    care-free?
    exciting?
    fulfilling?
    honorable?
    joyful?
    Or is the answer 42?

    One must ultimately decide.

    Replies: @iffen, @Audacious Epigone

    I agree.

    “Happiness” is highly overrated.

    It is quite meaningless to try and make comparisons.

  88. Anonymous[381] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sid
    Just on the most basic level of personal experience... Do middle aged, childless women you know seem happier than the ones with children? No? Wow, I've observed the same thing!

    I can buy that women in their 20s without kids have more fun and less worry than their more fecund counterparts, but childless women in their 30s need to have a lot of fun to feel happier than their peers with kids.

    And once a woman is in her 40s and beyond, forget about it. The best childless women can do after that point is have great relationships with their nieces and nephews. But that simply reinforces that a childless middle age and elderly years are a grim time. Having great relationships with one's nieces and nephews underscores the truth of natalism, rather than contradict it.

    Replies: @Anon, @Audacious Epigone, @Anonymous

    People are not worried about the happiness of childless women. That is not what this is about. It’s also not about valuing “family” in general. It’s about getting more and more for parents during their time on Earth. It’s not about DNA. Their shared DNA dwindles to less than 10% after the great great grandchildren. It’s about government money, above-firing jobs and womb privilege. It’s not altruistic or non-selfish in most cases; it’s cutthroat competitive.

    The happy-family experience in retirement of the guy with the “childless mom” is good.

    But there are many other retirement experiences, including for people who took the effort to raise their grandchildren. Many of them sacrificed 10 or 15 retirement years to accommodate dual-high-earner parents in keeping two household-supporting jobs under one roof, babysitting at the beck and call of their dual-earner children.

    They don’t just babysit so that dual-earner parents can dominate above-firing, family-friendly jobs, but also during their frequent and lengthy vacations. Wonder if the elderly, disabled woman mentioned in this article did all of that—raising her grandchildren so that her daughter could have a posh zip-code house—only to have the person whose children she raised refuse to help her with her heavy cleaning when she became disabled.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-denmark-election-welfare-insight/danes-make-welfare-a-hot-election-issue-as-cracks-show-in-nordic-model-idUSKCN1SZ0IC

    I know from working in a ton of majority-mom workplaces, where the women were mostly cutthroat to the max and nothing if not “abrasive” to non culture fits between their cloying, saccharine, vanity-laden, mom-bonding work parties, that all (or most) “nice family people” with “proper family lives” don’t fit that guy’s glowing description. Many are mean as snakes.

    I am not sure that his mother’s experience is typical of all “childless” women, either. By the time they know they aren’t going to have children, women have a lifetime of experience, including a lot of tireless babysitting for other people’s kids in many cases. This stuff doesn’t involve abrasiveness—quite the opposite, even though these aren’t your children. Most childless women have been very kind to moms over the years, too, and that kindness is not something that most moms feel like they should return.

    Moms are entitled.

    Then when you get older, if you didn’t make a bunch of money to insulate you from harsh criticism, you get the wonderful experience of being an example to the children of others, especially if you majored or worked in an impractical area. Whereas they were hiring you to teach their kids art, or you were doing it for free, now it’s tell Becky why she shouldn’t do what you did.

    You can’t mention any women who did the same thing, but whose spousal income guaranteed a cushy lifestyle, without the fake feminists going ballistic. How dare you critique so-in-so fellow mom. She is a career woman and a mother! You’re just a Debbie downer. Now, get back to telling Becky how you made the wrong choices in life.

    If this is a liberal mom, you also cannot critique the single-breadwinner moms, the ones who get their household bills paid by government (reduced-cost rent, free electricity, free food), in addition to monthly cash assistance and up to $6,431 in refundable child tax credit cash. They’re such “non-perpetual adolescents” in their “independent” apartments.

    However, you also cannot tell Becky about this economic option.

    You—as a single, childless woman—have to somehow live on low, earned-only income, even after adding additional practical credentials to your useless bachelor’s degree. You discover that—lo and behold—absentee moms with no credentials and unearned income from a spouse, child support or welfare and child tax credits dominate all of those jobs.

    Becky could pursue an impractical career option while producing from the womb in a single-breadwinner household if she stayed under the earned-income limits for welfare by working part time or by working temp gigs, dropping the welfare during months when her income went over the programs’ limits. This cynical option is deployed regularly by glorified, “warm and wonderful” family people across the USA.

    But Becky’s mom will be aghast if you mention it, either to promote it to her daughter or to critique it. It’s okay for Sheniqua, but not for Becky. And it wasn’t for you, either.

    You—unlike Becky’s mom—are too nice to mention it, anyway, and you go along with the double-standard poor-choices routine that is part of being single, childless and non-affluent.

    Even if you had money, as a single, childless woman, you would be expected to provide Becky with the be-sure-to-have-kids-so-you-won’t-be-like-me advice, especially in this time when white people are so worried about increasing the white birth rate.

    The pay-per-birth welfare and child tax credit schemes, along with the welfare-rigged voted-best-for-moms workplaces and the childcare from the fawning grandparents or low-wage daycare workers, has accommodated wealth concentration.

    But it has not worked to increase the birth rate amongst all groups.

    Nor has it created a less abrasive, less entitled kind of mom, like the ones who took care of their elderly relatives in past eras. That’s for other people to do. We moms do the smug baby-show-off part and the child-tax-credit-financed vacation part.

    This is an terrible, hostile, anti-individual country to live in as a single, childless person, particularly when you aren’t affluent. That is for sure. That’s why you tell Becky about it, even when you don’t have kids. “Nice” family people make sure it’s horrible for childless people. And they do it for themselves, not for their kids, although it doesn’t always turn out so well to put your arrogant, womb-productive kids above criticism as you age. (See link) The solution if the Danes is more immigrant servants to take care of the parents of the dual-earner parents. There’s no way to vote against this ****, either. It’s too lucrative for the womb-producing voters.

    Bring in the Hallmark card designers.

  89. @dc.sunsets
    @iffen

    Interesting assertion.

    My biological mother was, for all practical purposes, childless.

    She married a man who had kids, and never had any of her own with him. They were careerists and managers and traveled the world for the firm. He died before I met her.

    When she had a stroke at about age 70 no one noticed her absence so she spent three days face down on the kitchen floor. Her condition rendered her unable to continue being the open-checkbook patron of an animal rescue movement so her "friends" from that evaporated. Her step children were essentially strangers and her abrasiveness (a trait I blamed on her never having what I defined as an actual family and actual children) had already led to my distancing myself.

    She died in a nursing home, basically alone. Her brothers had her beloved dogs euthanized immediately (when she entered the nursing home), preparing to liquidate her remaining estate. I'm not sure anyone even showed to any kind of service or funeral...I wasn't invited to one.

    You assert that DINKs have a lot of stuff, and are happy for it. A big house? Expensive cars? A boat? A beachfront condo? Yeah, I could easily have one or all of these...but I'd rather assure myself of a dignified sail into the sunset.

    I get down on the floor and play with toddler grandchildren. Their eyes light up when they see me coming into their houses or when they walk into mine. A day of play leaves me exhausted...and happy.

    Anyone who thinks sitting on the balcony of a West Florida condo is as fun as that is ignorant beyond description, most likely because they're still under 50 and delude themselves into thinking that young adults of the opposite sex are attracted to them.

    It's common to live to the late 80's now. Imagine what those last 30 years are like...ALONE, where your companions are (1) other fossils, (2) parasites looking for a handout or (3) cats.

    Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian, @iffen

    I didn’t say that I desired that lifestyle. I said that it was desirable for some people and they seem just as “happy” as anyone else. The same goes for some men and women who are not married. I just don’t get along with the narcissistic bloviations that contend that the only route to happiness is to be like me. I think that it likely conceals a lot of resentment, insecurity and disappointment and projecting is a way to deal with it.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @iffen


    the narcissistic bloviations that contend that the only route to happiness is to be like me.
     
    No one wrote anything like it.

    I think that it likely conceals a lot of resentment, insecurity and disappointment and projecting is a way to deal with it.
     
    Sounds like wishful thinking on your part.

    Replies: @iffen

    , @dc.sunsets
    @iffen

    The resentment you read emanates from my recognition of the forces arrayed against my descendants, forces that enjoy a 24/7 deafening bullhorn of Pop Culture exhortation to engage in self-destruction.

    Promotion of sodomy? Check.
    Promotion of sexual hedonism? Check.
    Promotion of open insanity, ex: a man (XY chromosome pair) encouraged to think that he can be a girl simply by taking the very same estrogen supplements whose side effects for women were deemed dangerous or worse, by paying a surgeon to mutilate him, and vice-versa? Check.

    Iffen, that's not resentment you read. It's far, far more than that. Your cosmopolitan "different strokes for different folks" ethos is a rationalization for legal and social promotion of personal choices that are a near-certain pathway for misery. Just because some people are born to pathological desires for novelty or who are prone to reject Actual Reality in favor of self-destructive fantasy doesn't mean they should be encouraged, nay, enabled in this.

    I get a belly laugh out of folks who are so addicted to the goodfeelz of holier-than-thou that they promote enabling things like obesity or loneliness or male homosexuality, choices that have very predictable truncating effects on a person's lifespan.

    What people DO is their choice, but few people think these things through very well. Those who engage in relativism while eschewing value assignment simply encourage poor choices of action. But we live in an Age of Wishful Thinking, where smug SWPLs adopt and spread a mental map that is far estranged from the actual territory of Reality it's supposed to mirror.

    Replies: @iffen

  90. “Just 45%”

    Pretty sad that 45% is the better outcome, but I suppose it all depends on how you define mental health

  91. @iffen
    @dc.sunsets

    I didn’t say that I desired that lifestyle. I said that it was desirable for some people and they seem just as “happy” as anyone else. The same goes for some men and women who are not married. I just don’t get along with the narcissistic bloviations that contend that the only route to happiness is to be like me. I think that it likely conceals a lot of resentment, insecurity and disappointment and projecting is a way to deal with it.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @dc.sunsets

    the narcissistic bloviations that contend that the only route to happiness is to be like me.

    No one wrote anything like it.

    I think that it likely conceals a lot of resentment, insecurity and disappointment and projecting is a way to deal with it.

    Sounds like wishful thinking on your part.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Twinkie

    No one wrote anything like it..

    You are the archetype.

    Sounds like wishful thinking on your part.

    I wish you fuckers would mature and realize that it is not all about you.

    Nice to see your meds are working well.

    BTW, I used to put some stock into some of what you write, but the Ninja Turtle routine on the cafeteria table ended it for me.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  92. @MarkinPNW
    @Budd Dwyer

    My only child, a daughter and her husband, also have not been able to have children of their own. But they got involved in Foster care, with all the tribulations and blessing that brings. Out of 9 foster children over the years they have eventually been able to adopt 3 half-siblings. They are very much of a challenge, but also bring us (myself, my wife, my daughter and her husband) much joy.

    Foster care is not easy, with all the regulations and bureaucracy as well as trying to love and help "damaged" children, but it could also be a way to receive, and to give many blessings.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Foster care is not easy, with all the regulations and bureaucracy as well as trying to love and help “damaged” children, but it could also be a way to receive, and to give many blessings.

    This is a most Christian thing to read!

  93. @Twinkie
    @iffen


    the narcissistic bloviations that contend that the only route to happiness is to be like me.
     
    No one wrote anything like it.

    I think that it likely conceals a lot of resentment, insecurity and disappointment and projecting is a way to deal with it.
     
    Sounds like wishful thinking on your part.

    Replies: @iffen

    No one wrote anything like it..

    You are the archetype.

    Sounds like wishful thinking on your part.

    I wish you fuckers would mature and realize that it is not all about you.

    Nice to see your meds are working well.

    BTW, I used to put some stock into some of what you write, but the Ninja Turtle routine on the cafeteria table ended it for me.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @iffen


    You are the archetype.
     
    Sorry I made good choices in life and am advising younger people to do the same.

    I wish you fuckers would mature and realize that it is not all about you.
     
    Square that with your first sentence.

    BTW, I used to put some stock into some of what you write, but the Ninja Turtle routine on the cafeteria table ended it for me.
     
    I was in middle school, in a new country where I didn’t know the language or customs. There was no ESL and I was the only Asian kid I knew there (later it turned out there was a couple of adopted Korean kids). As I indicated in that comment, I reacted mostly out of fear and confusion (and also because where I was from - having food thrown at you was a grave insult).

    In that particular time period, my birth country had a lot of institutionalized violence. Officers beat the NCOs and NCOs beat the conscripts in the army. Teachers beat the living daylights out of students routinely. Seniors in schools would smack around the younger students (I hit back against a senior in my elementary school and was rewarded for it later by having a large group of them beat me down after school). Kids used to call each other out and fight after school all the time.

    The first day of my school in America I didn’t understand those differences in culture. Like I wrote, I fully expected to be beaten up by teachers for what I did... like this:
    https://youtu.be/Ntv8l6ZAddA

    Replies: @iffen, @iffen, @Audacious Epigone

  94. @Mark G.
    @Twinkie

    Many older single women fall into that category of women who complain about lack of men while turning down every guy they meet. As I've become older I've realized that no one is perfect and you can still have enjoyable relationships, romantic and otherwise, with imperfect people. Once I realized that, my happiness level increased.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @MikeatMikedotMike, @Anon

    Mt wife has a few older female acquaintances like this. All women share a few similarities: Not all that attractive but not ugly, a little too thin, graduate level education, terrible sense of style, plenty affable, and no man was ever good enough.

  95. @Noman
    Just proves that having children is not a path to personal happiness.
    Would you really want to bring a child into this effed up world?
    Until there is a catastrophic change in how the world is run, with a period of chaos that would follow and the current rulers are denied power and position, nothing will change for the better.
    True happiness would mean less conspicuous consumption for self gratification in an attempt to achieve pseudo happiness from corporate products. Lower profit for the trillionaire owners. Therefore cannot have a satisfied population.
    The elites are now establishing "space forces" to defend against threats from space, they are hedging their control of the population with a defense against a giant meteor.
    Since the meme of voting for "Giant Meteor" appeared in 2016, these space defense announcements have proliferated. BTW "defense" means "weapons", which up until this linguistic twist were banned from space. "It's for the Children and to secure Humanity." A global Patriot Act.

    Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike, @Audacious Epigone

    “Would you really want to bring a child into this effed up world?”

    The statement itself has nothing to do with children of the effed up world we live in. It’s a justification for people to avoid responsibility and remain selfish throughout their lifetime. Selfish cowards have been spouting this rhetoric since I can remember. If they really believed it, they would just put a gun in their mouths and get it over with.

    • Agree: dc.sunsets
  96. @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    @Truth

    And how many do you have?

    Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike, @Truth

    Better question: How many does he know about?

    • Replies: @Truth
    @MikeatMikedotMike


    Better question: How many does he know about?
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oShTJ90fC34
  97. @iffen
    @Twinkie

    No one wrote anything like it..

    You are the archetype.

    Sounds like wishful thinking on your part.

    I wish you fuckers would mature and realize that it is not all about you.

    Nice to see your meds are working well.

    BTW, I used to put some stock into some of what you write, but the Ninja Turtle routine on the cafeteria table ended it for me.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    You are the archetype.

    Sorry I made good choices in life and am advising younger people to do the same.

    I wish you fuckers would mature and realize that it is not all about you.

    Square that with your first sentence.

    BTW, I used to put some stock into some of what you write, but the Ninja Turtle routine on the cafeteria table ended it for me.

    I was in middle school, in a new country where I didn’t know the language or customs. There was no ESL and I was the only Asian kid I knew there (later it turned out there was a couple of adopted Korean kids). As I indicated in that comment, I reacted mostly out of fear and confusion (and also because where I was from – having food thrown at you was a grave insult).

    In that particular time period, my birth country had a lot of institutionalized violence. Officers beat the NCOs and NCOs beat the conscripts in the army. Teachers beat the living daylights out of students routinely. Seniors in schools would smack around the younger students (I hit back against a senior in my elementary school and was rewarded for it later by having a large group of them beat me down after school). Kids used to call each other out and fight after school all the time.

    The first day of my school in America I didn’t understand those differences in culture. Like I wrote, I fully expected to be beaten up by teachers for what I did… like this:

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Twinkie

    Officers beat the NCOs and NCOs beat the conscripts in the army.

    Something every middle schooler would know.

    You're good, but not that good.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @iffen
    @Twinkie

    I made good choices in life and am advising younger people to do the same.

    No wonder you got all those Master's degrees. Did your wife get them the same way?

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @Twinkie

    When I hear people refer to Koreans as the Irish of East Asia, it's the risible irascibility of the teacher in this clip I'm holding in my mind.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  98. @Twinkie
    @iffen


    You are the archetype.
     
    Sorry I made good choices in life and am advising younger people to do the same.

    I wish you fuckers would mature and realize that it is not all about you.
     
    Square that with your first sentence.

    BTW, I used to put some stock into some of what you write, but the Ninja Turtle routine on the cafeteria table ended it for me.
     
    I was in middle school, in a new country where I didn’t know the language or customs. There was no ESL and I was the only Asian kid I knew there (later it turned out there was a couple of adopted Korean kids). As I indicated in that comment, I reacted mostly out of fear and confusion (and also because where I was from - having food thrown at you was a grave insult).

    In that particular time period, my birth country had a lot of institutionalized violence. Officers beat the NCOs and NCOs beat the conscripts in the army. Teachers beat the living daylights out of students routinely. Seniors in schools would smack around the younger students (I hit back against a senior in my elementary school and was rewarded for it later by having a large group of them beat me down after school). Kids used to call each other out and fight after school all the time.

    The first day of my school in America I didn’t understand those differences in culture. Like I wrote, I fully expected to be beaten up by teachers for what I did... like this:
    https://youtu.be/Ntv8l6ZAddA

    Replies: @iffen, @iffen, @Audacious Epigone

    Officers beat the NCOs and NCOs beat the conscripts in the army.

    Something every middle schooler would know.

    You’re good, but not that good.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @iffen


    Something every middle schooler would know.
     
    Did you not read the rest of that paragraph? I was routinely beaten up by teachers and upperclassmen/school seniors. And I had many “honor” fights with other students in elementary school and middle school there. I’ve trained in boxing, TKD, and Judo since I was five, and quite a few other kids had martial arts training.

    The military beatings I got later (I served before I went to college in the States).

    This movie scene is dramatized (it’s obviously unrealistic to have one kid beat up a group of his opponents), but it captures very well the vibe of the era and place:

    https://youtu.be/TTei-H3W5aU

    Replies: @iffen

  99. @Twinkie
    @iffen


    You are the archetype.
     
    Sorry I made good choices in life and am advising younger people to do the same.

    I wish you fuckers would mature and realize that it is not all about you.
     
    Square that with your first sentence.

    BTW, I used to put some stock into some of what you write, but the Ninja Turtle routine on the cafeteria table ended it for me.
     
    I was in middle school, in a new country where I didn’t know the language or customs. There was no ESL and I was the only Asian kid I knew there (later it turned out there was a couple of adopted Korean kids). As I indicated in that comment, I reacted mostly out of fear and confusion (and also because where I was from - having food thrown at you was a grave insult).

    In that particular time period, my birth country had a lot of institutionalized violence. Officers beat the NCOs and NCOs beat the conscripts in the army. Teachers beat the living daylights out of students routinely. Seniors in schools would smack around the younger students (I hit back against a senior in my elementary school and was rewarded for it later by having a large group of them beat me down after school). Kids used to call each other out and fight after school all the time.

    The first day of my school in America I didn’t understand those differences in culture. Like I wrote, I fully expected to be beaten up by teachers for what I did... like this:
    https://youtu.be/Ntv8l6ZAddA

    Replies: @iffen, @iffen, @Audacious Epigone

    I made good choices in life and am advising younger people to do the same.

    No wonder you got all those Master’s degrees. Did your wife get them the same way?

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @iffen

    Ph.D. in history, pal. Military history, to be specific (had to do with fighting). My wife has a STEM doctorate.

    I obviously learned to fight away from adults in America. :) Served me well when black kids tried to bully my white and Asian friends when I went to high school in NYC.

    When I was about to go to college, my mother made me promise not to get into fights in college. Told me that people cut me slack because I was young and smart and didn’t want to ruin a promising future. She said that college students were adults and wouldn’t be excused for violence even if instigated by others. I largely, but not entirely, kept that promise.

    I’d be the first to admit that I had a nasty temper when I was young. But some of that was mitigated by me competing seriously in Judo. And by and large I made good choices in life as an adult, partly because I became keenly aware of the fact that I had no safety net in this country (my parents went back after my father’s tour was over).

    Anything else?

    Replies: @iffen

  100. @iffen
    @Twinkie

    Officers beat the NCOs and NCOs beat the conscripts in the army.

    Something every middle schooler would know.

    You're good, but not that good.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Something every middle schooler would know.

    Did you not read the rest of that paragraph? I was routinely beaten up by teachers and upperclassmen/school seniors. And I had many “honor” fights with other students in elementary school and middle school there. I’ve trained in boxing, TKD, and Judo since I was five, and quite a few other kids had martial arts training.

    The military beatings I got later (I served before I went to college in the States).

    This movie scene is dramatized (it’s obviously unrealistic to have one kid beat up a group of his opponents), but it captures very well the vibe of the era and place:

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Twinkie

    Okay, but you might want to write it down with numbered bullet points so that you can keep it straight.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  101. @Twinkie
    @iffen


    Something every middle schooler would know.
     
    Did you not read the rest of that paragraph? I was routinely beaten up by teachers and upperclassmen/school seniors. And I had many “honor” fights with other students in elementary school and middle school there. I’ve trained in boxing, TKD, and Judo since I was five, and quite a few other kids had martial arts training.

    The military beatings I got later (I served before I went to college in the States).

    This movie scene is dramatized (it’s obviously unrealistic to have one kid beat up a group of his opponents), but it captures very well the vibe of the era and place:

    https://youtu.be/TTei-H3W5aU

    Replies: @iffen

    Okay, but you might want to write it down with numbered bullet points so that you can keep it straight.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @iffen


    Okay, but you might want to write it down with numbered bullet points so that you can keep it straight.
     
    I knew you’d have nothing else and would fall back to “You are making it all up.”

    If I were making things up to make myself appear “awesome” to this crowd, I wouldn’t have shared half the things I have. I’d have presented myself as a cool “playa” living the life of hedonistic, Godless luxury and womanizing. Lord knows that gets votes by acclimation among some of the alt-Right, manosphere-types here.

    Living and encouraging a traditional life is not something that gets a lot of likes among the bitter and alienated young menfolk in the readership here, but I genuinely believe it works for most, if not all, people. And AE’s numbers bear that out.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

  102. @iffen
    @Twinkie

    I made good choices in life and am advising younger people to do the same.

    No wonder you got all those Master's degrees. Did your wife get them the same way?

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Ph.D. in history, pal. Military history, to be specific (had to do with fighting). My wife has a STEM doctorate.

    I obviously learned to fight away from adults in America. 🙂 Served me well when black kids tried to bully my white and Asian friends when I went to high school in NYC.

    When I was about to go to college, my mother made me promise not to get into fights in college. Told me that people cut me slack because I was young and smart and didn’t want to ruin a promising future. She said that college students were adults and wouldn’t be excused for violence even if instigated by others. I largely, but not entirely, kept that promise.

    I’d be the first to admit that I had a nasty temper when I was young. But some of that was mitigated by me competing seriously in Judo. And by and large I made good choices in life as an adult, partly because I became keenly aware of the fact that I had no safety net in this country (my parents went back after my father’s tour was over).

    Anything else?

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Twinkie

    Anything else?

    Yes, you never did answer my question as to whether your PTSD check is a flat amount or a % of your regular pension.

    I’d have presented myself as a cool “playa” living the life of hedonistic, Godless luxury and womanizing.


    Sounds like wishful thinking on your part.
     
    Lord knows that gets votes by acclimation among some of the alt-Right, manosphere-types here.

    Acclamation, Mr. Ph. D

    Play to the crowd however you wish.

    This spectator thinks of you as a banana flap rather than a Twinkie.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  103. @iffen
    @Twinkie

    Okay, but you might want to write it down with numbered bullet points so that you can keep it straight.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Okay, but you might want to write it down with numbered bullet points so that you can keep it straight.

    I knew you’d have nothing else and would fall back to “You are making it all up.”

    If I were making things up to make myself appear “awesome” to this crowd, I wouldn’t have shared half the things I have. I’d have presented myself as a cool “playa” living the life of hedonistic, Godless luxury and womanizing. Lord knows that gets votes by acclimation among some of the alt-Right, manosphere-types here.

    Living and encouraging a traditional life is not something that gets a lot of likes among the bitter and alienated young menfolk in the readership here, but I genuinely believe it works for most, if not all, people. And AE’s numbers bear that out.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Twinkie

    Since I have access to IPs, I occasionally test the plausibility of the things commenters claim with what that information provides (it should go without saying that I will absolutely never disclose any of that information to anyone else under any circumstance, ever).

    Twinkie checks out.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  104. @Twinkie
    @iffen

    Ph.D. in history, pal. Military history, to be specific (had to do with fighting). My wife has a STEM doctorate.

    I obviously learned to fight away from adults in America. :) Served me well when black kids tried to bully my white and Asian friends when I went to high school in NYC.

    When I was about to go to college, my mother made me promise not to get into fights in college. Told me that people cut me slack because I was young and smart and didn’t want to ruin a promising future. She said that college students were adults and wouldn’t be excused for violence even if instigated by others. I largely, but not entirely, kept that promise.

    I’d be the first to admit that I had a nasty temper when I was young. But some of that was mitigated by me competing seriously in Judo. And by and large I made good choices in life as an adult, partly because I became keenly aware of the fact that I had no safety net in this country (my parents went back after my father’s tour was over).

    Anything else?

    Replies: @iffen

    Anything else?

    Yes, you never did answer my question as to whether your PTSD check is a flat amount or a % of your regular pension.

    I’d have presented myself as a cool “playa” living the life of hedonistic, Godless luxury and womanizing.

    Sounds like wishful thinking on your part.

    Lord knows that gets votes by acclimation among some of the alt-Right, manosphere-types here.

    Acclamation, Mr. Ph. D

    Play to the crowd however you wish.

    This spectator thinks of you as a banana flap rather than a Twinkie.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @iffen


    Yes, you never did answer my question as to whether your PTSD check is a flat amount or a % of your regular pension.
     
    You know, I did my best to answer your derisive questioning earnestly, but I see that it was all a big waste of time.

    Only the best people, I guess.

    Replies: @iffen

  105. Anon[262] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie
    @Anon


    Why would anyone have “great relationships with their nieces”? Who can stand 20 year younger people for more than a few minutes? Just being related doesn’t make it any more interesting. It’s still people from a completely different universe.
     
    I love my nephews and nieces. It's not an issue of "interesting," whatever that means. They are a part of my tribe - I love them and they love me. It's as simple as that.

    Replies: @Anon

    I’d give my nephews money if they truly needed (say, for doctor bills), and couldn’t get from their parents. I’d definitely help them get good jobs if they were in my field of work.

    But listening to them is as nauseating as listening to any other 20-year old.

    Expecting a woman smart enough to remain childless to tolerate those brats is naive. “Good relations with nieces” is synonymous with IVF.

    • Replies: @Truth
    @Anon

    Well at least we have one guy who's not going to go on blathering about "the low white birthrates..."

  106. @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    @dc.sunsets

    Sex is only a momentary pleasure and dies down when you're around 50. Love lasts a lifetime. My number one goal in life is to have kids, be a dad, a grandad, and hopefully a great grandad. As a nice side benefit to this, large families with inter-generational wisdom is how you keep out the poz. Also - unless you're a 1% chad - love is the best path to sex. Married men have way more sex than single men. So quite frankly it's a win win.

    I'm not playing down the value of sex at all - but it's very clear that the 20 or 30 year old women who never want off the cock carousel have not looked very far into their future.

    Replies: @dc.sunsets

    Agreed. Almost everything popular today is an inversion of reality.

    Physical intimacy is a gift, it is THE means for deepening emotional intimacy. Those who habituate to the former while eschewing the latter are, in my opinion, dooming themselves to a lifetime of shallow emotional connections, and all but guarantee that their marriages, if they take that road, will be little more than cohabitation and occasional friends-with-benefits. For such people, evenings spent silently with their faces glued to their iPhags is the best they can hope for. Not my idea of a life worth living.

    As for women on the carousel, is it not obvious that we live in the Age of Perpetual Adolescence, where people play Peter Pan, living the lives of 14-year-olds who have credit cards and the freedom to destroy themselves one impulsive action after another? Many men and women refuse to grow up. It’s astonishing and sad.

    But then again, humans have a phenomenally complex set of behavioral subroutines, some of which I believe serve as a means of self-culling when Nature’s culling is paused. Lemmings, it turns out do not engage in mass suicide, but human beings most assuredly do so, both explicitly (Jim Jones’ Peoples Temple or the Heaven’s Gate cult) and implicitly via pursuit of social behaviors that predictably yield either zero or dysfunctional offspring.

    Nature is full of laws. And her laws are inviolable, no matter how stupid humans think they can legislate exceptions to them.

    Some people today are destroying themselves, fast or slow. Others march to a wiser beat, usually by rejecting the siren’s song of Pop Culture. Only the latter will leave descendants who will show up to claim the future.

  107. @iffen
    @dc.sunsets

    I didn’t say that I desired that lifestyle. I said that it was desirable for some people and they seem just as “happy” as anyone else. The same goes for some men and women who are not married. I just don’t get along with the narcissistic bloviations that contend that the only route to happiness is to be like me. I think that it likely conceals a lot of resentment, insecurity and disappointment and projecting is a way to deal with it.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @dc.sunsets

    The resentment you read emanates from my recognition of the forces arrayed against my descendants, forces that enjoy a 24/7 deafening bullhorn of Pop Culture exhortation to engage in self-destruction.

    Promotion of sodomy? Check.
    Promotion of sexual hedonism? Check.
    Promotion of open insanity, ex: a man (XY chromosome pair) encouraged to think that he can be a girl simply by taking the very same estrogen supplements whose side effects for women were deemed dangerous or worse, by paying a surgeon to mutilate him, and vice-versa? Check.

    Iffen, that’s not resentment you read. It’s far, far more than that. Your cosmopolitan “different strokes for different folks” ethos is a rationalization for legal and social promotion of personal choices that are a near-certain pathway for misery. Just because some people are born to pathological desires for novelty or who are prone to reject Actual Reality in favor of self-destructive fantasy doesn’t mean they should be encouraged, nay, enabled in this.

    I get a belly laugh out of folks who are so addicted to the goodfeelz of holier-than-thou that they promote enabling things like obesity or loneliness or male homosexuality, choices that have very predictable truncating effects on a person’s lifespan.

    What people DO is their choice, but few people think these things through very well. Those who engage in relativism while eschewing value assignment simply encourage poor choices of action. But we live in an Age of Wishful Thinking, where smug SWPLs adopt and spread a mental map that is far estranged from the actual territory of Reality it’s supposed to mirror.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @dc.sunsets

    You, and many of the commenters here are no different from the SJWs. You have no tolerance for a different opinion.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  108. @Mark G.
    @Twinkie

    Many older single women fall into that category of women who complain about lack of men while turning down every guy they meet. As I've become older I've realized that no one is perfect and you can still have enjoyable relationships, romantic and otherwise, with imperfect people. Once I realized that, my happiness level increased.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @MikeatMikedotMike, @Anon

    I think that’s what Schwartzenegger (and many other men) would say.

  109. @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    @Truth

    And how many do you have?

    Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike, @Truth

    One, but I’m involved with a much younger woman not much older than he, so there is a strong possibility of at least one more.

  110. @MikeatMikedotMike
    @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    Better question: How many does he know about?

    Replies: @Truth

    Better question: How many does he know about?

  111. @iffen
    @Twinkie

    Anything else?

    Yes, you never did answer my question as to whether your PTSD check is a flat amount or a % of your regular pension.

    I’d have presented myself as a cool “playa” living the life of hedonistic, Godless luxury and womanizing.


    Sounds like wishful thinking on your part.
     
    Lord knows that gets votes by acclimation among some of the alt-Right, manosphere-types here.

    Acclamation, Mr. Ph. D

    Play to the crowd however you wish.

    This spectator thinks of you as a banana flap rather than a Twinkie.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Yes, you never did answer my question as to whether your PTSD check is a flat amount or a % of your regular pension.

    You know, I did my best to answer your derisive questioning earnestly, but I see that it was all a big waste of time.

    Only the best people, I guess.

    • Agree: dc.sunsets, Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @iffen
    @Twinkie

    Only the best people, I guess.

    The program than runs you has little memory and even less learning ability.

    It is a waste of time. A waste of pixels and a waste of a comment thread. I have tried several times to extricate myself and ignore your comments that are tagged to mine and I have failed. I have some determination grit and I will try until I succeed.

  112. @Twinkie
    @iffen


    Yes, you never did answer my question as to whether your PTSD check is a flat amount or a % of your regular pension.
     
    You know, I did my best to answer your derisive questioning earnestly, but I see that it was all a big waste of time.

    Only the best people, I guess.

    Replies: @iffen

    Only the best people, I guess.

    The program than runs you has little memory and even less learning ability.

    It is a waste of time. A waste of pixels and a waste of a comment thread. I have tried several times to extricate myself and ignore your comments that are tagged to mine and I have failed. I have some determination grit and I will try until I succeed.

  113. @dc.sunsets
    @iffen

    The resentment you read emanates from my recognition of the forces arrayed against my descendants, forces that enjoy a 24/7 deafening bullhorn of Pop Culture exhortation to engage in self-destruction.

    Promotion of sodomy? Check.
    Promotion of sexual hedonism? Check.
    Promotion of open insanity, ex: a man (XY chromosome pair) encouraged to think that he can be a girl simply by taking the very same estrogen supplements whose side effects for women were deemed dangerous or worse, by paying a surgeon to mutilate him, and vice-versa? Check.

    Iffen, that's not resentment you read. It's far, far more than that. Your cosmopolitan "different strokes for different folks" ethos is a rationalization for legal and social promotion of personal choices that are a near-certain pathway for misery. Just because some people are born to pathological desires for novelty or who are prone to reject Actual Reality in favor of self-destructive fantasy doesn't mean they should be encouraged, nay, enabled in this.

    I get a belly laugh out of folks who are so addicted to the goodfeelz of holier-than-thou that they promote enabling things like obesity or loneliness or male homosexuality, choices that have very predictable truncating effects on a person's lifespan.

    What people DO is their choice, but few people think these things through very well. Those who engage in relativism while eschewing value assignment simply encourage poor choices of action. But we live in an Age of Wishful Thinking, where smug SWPLs adopt and spread a mental map that is far estranged from the actual territory of Reality it's supposed to mirror.

    Replies: @iffen

    You, and many of the commenters here are no different from the SJWs. You have no tolerance for a different opinion.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @iffen


    You, and many of the commenters here are no different from the SJWs. You have no tolerance for a different opinion.
     
    That's nonsense. It's not that people aren't tolerant of dissenting views on this thread. It's that you can't stand criticism of your views, which are frankly not well put together. Put some big boy pants on and defend your assertions with persuasive reason and data, instead of resorting to cursing, ad hominem, dishonest arguments, and trying to paint everyone who disagree with you as a liar or a SJW.

    Because THAT is most certainly a waste of time and, worse, damages the atmosphere here.
  114. @Rosie
    I continue my objection to the shallow "happiness" standard. First one thing, the word is ambiguous. One can mean all sorts of things by the term. Is a happy life:

    care-free?
    exciting?
    fulfilling?
    honorable?
    joyful?
    Or is the answer 42?

    One must ultimately decide.

    Replies: @iffen, @Audacious Epigone

    Instead of deferring to the Hitchhiker, I defer to the last of the five good emperors–happiness is living in accordance with one’s nature. Creating, nurturing, protecting, and raising the next generation is a big part of that nature.

  115. @TomSchmidt
    @Audacious Epigone

    Congratulations. "The birth of a child is a sure sign that God hasn't given up on the world." And all that.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    Thanks very much.

    It’s also a sure sign that I cannot give up, either. While there is blood in our veins and air in our lungs, we have a fighting chance.

  116. @Anon
    @Audacious Epigone

    If children are you greatest joy, it seems you have a quite dull life. I don't recall Marc Aurelius writing similar lumpenprole sancta-simplicitas confessions. No surprise you are griping anonymously on the web about random imagined enemies - it must be that massive happiness.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Audacious Epigone

    Marcus Aurelius’ Stoicism is what helped him deal with the death of his children, something he had to endure more times than I’d ever wish on my worst enemy.

  117. @Bardon Kaldian
    I suppose this "science" is here: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/may/25/women-happier-without-children-or-a-spouse-happiness-expert

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    “happiness expert”

    lol.

  118. @Talha
    The judge in the court case against William Sanger (the husband of the famous Margaret Sanger) for distributing his wife's publications on family planning:
    "Your crime is not only a violation of the laws of man, but of the law of God as well, in your scheme to prevent motherhood. Too many persons have the idea that it is wrong to have children. Some women are so selfish that they do not want to be bothered with them. If some persons would go around and urge Christian women to bear children, instead of wasting their time on woman suffrage, this city and society would be better off."
    Free Speech and the Politics of Identity (Oxford Univ. Press)

    Imagine that being said these days from the hand holding the gavel...

    Peace.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    There is one subgroup in the West that can still get away with saying that in public–a subgroup that took the last month off for religious reasons.

    No pressure my friend, no pressure at all!

    • LOL: Talha
  119. @Noman
    Just proves that having children is not a path to personal happiness.
    Would you really want to bring a child into this effed up world?
    Until there is a catastrophic change in how the world is run, with a period of chaos that would follow and the current rulers are denied power and position, nothing will change for the better.
    True happiness would mean less conspicuous consumption for self gratification in an attempt to achieve pseudo happiness from corporate products. Lower profit for the trillionaire owners. Therefore cannot have a satisfied population.
    The elites are now establishing "space forces" to defend against threats from space, they are hedging their control of the population with a defense against a giant meteor.
    Since the meme of voting for "Giant Meteor" appeared in 2016, these space defense announcements have proliferated. BTW "defense" means "weapons", which up until this linguistic twist were banned from space. "It's for the Children and to secure Humanity." A global Patriot Act.

    Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike, @Audacious Epigone

    Others have done more with less.

    We owe it to our ancestors to give our descendants a chance. After all, they gave us one.

    • Agree: dc.sunsets
  120. @Twinkie
    @Mark G.


    Many older single women fall into that category of women who complain about lack of men while turning down every guy they meet.
     
    The sad thing is, the single woman to whom I referred above is actually quite attractive and well-educated. She is a generally pretty considerate person, too.

    But as she has gotten older and more desperate, her standards have risen, not declined. It's almost as if she waited this long and passed on so many men that she now has to justify all that by having impossibly high standards. What's even worse is that she has a very bad case of "the grass is greener on the other side of the fence" syndrome on top of all that. My wife is starting to get a tad bit creeped out by her constant complaints about single men she meets, followed by "Oh, you are so lucky, because you have such a great husband." And I am not the only husband about whom she has said things of this sort.

    In other words, this lady is turning her nose up at all the available single men, but is beginning to get fixated on married men.* That is most assuredly not healthy and doesn't bode well for the rest of the fecund period of her life.

    *Though my wife does half-jokingly say that married men are, by definition, pre-selected by other women and that means something for women on the hunt for men.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @Justvisiting

    Heartiste has referred to multiple studies showing that ceteris paribus women rate married men as more attractive than unmarried men.

  121. @Twinkie
    @Anon


    If children are you greatest joy, it seems you have a quite dull life.
     
    Do tell me what "joyful" things you have done.

    I grew up in Asia and America. Did military service in two countries. Went to Ivy League universities. Worked as an investigator and did counter-terrorism on three continents. Worked on the Hill and got to know important politicians and elected officials. Started a business with my wife, grew it, and sold it and don't have to work anymore. And I am on the board of a large healthcare system, having a hand in determining the fate of thousands of patients. I've done lots of exciting, dangerous, and fun things, and traveled all corners of the earth.

    None of those things, I mean absolutely none, measures up to seeing my children be born and witnessing their growth as human beings everyday. No, it's not all cookies and cream raising children. It gets frustrating and stressful sometimes. So, occasionally, I do take a pack, pick up a rifle, and take my favorite dog and go up a mountain and "unwind" for a half a day or so.

    In all my travels, work, and living, I've seen lots of human ugliness - truly depraved and evil things. But I have seen some goodness too (and even holiness) and children most definitely form the most important part of what is good and beautiful in life.

    No surprise you are griping anonymously on the web about random imagined enemies – it must be that massive happiness.
     
    Don't be a jackass.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    You’re what I aspire to be (no homo, no irony).

    • Replies: @Truth
    @Audacious Epigone

    Well, you're going to make your local Army recruiter's day...

  122. @Twinkie
    @iffen


    You are the archetype.
     
    Sorry I made good choices in life and am advising younger people to do the same.

    I wish you fuckers would mature and realize that it is not all about you.
     
    Square that with your first sentence.

    BTW, I used to put some stock into some of what you write, but the Ninja Turtle routine on the cafeteria table ended it for me.
     
    I was in middle school, in a new country where I didn’t know the language or customs. There was no ESL and I was the only Asian kid I knew there (later it turned out there was a couple of adopted Korean kids). As I indicated in that comment, I reacted mostly out of fear and confusion (and also because where I was from - having food thrown at you was a grave insult).

    In that particular time period, my birth country had a lot of institutionalized violence. Officers beat the NCOs and NCOs beat the conscripts in the army. Teachers beat the living daylights out of students routinely. Seniors in schools would smack around the younger students (I hit back against a senior in my elementary school and was rewarded for it later by having a large group of them beat me down after school). Kids used to call each other out and fight after school all the time.

    The first day of my school in America I didn’t understand those differences in culture. Like I wrote, I fully expected to be beaten up by teachers for what I did... like this:
    https://youtu.be/Ntv8l6ZAddA

    Replies: @iffen, @iffen, @Audacious Epigone

    When I hear people refer to Koreans as the Irish of East Asia, it’s the risible irascibility of the teacher in this clip I’m holding in my mind.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Audacious Epigone


    When I hear people refer to Koreans as the Irish of East Asia, it’s the risible irascibility of the teacher in this clip I’m holding in my mind.
     
    Koreans and the Irish have a lot in common and that includes the pronounced tendency to fight amongst themselves (especially after some alcohol) and being difficult to govern (esp. for outside powers). And some of those tendencies are no doubt products of being colonized by a greater power nearby.

    As Ken Jeong says, "Koreans are the angriest mo-fos in the world."

    https://youtu.be/yi6fX2Qbvvo
  123. @Twinkie
    @iffen


    Okay, but you might want to write it down with numbered bullet points so that you can keep it straight.
     
    I knew you’d have nothing else and would fall back to “You are making it all up.”

    If I were making things up to make myself appear “awesome” to this crowd, I wouldn’t have shared half the things I have. I’d have presented myself as a cool “playa” living the life of hedonistic, Godless luxury and womanizing. Lord knows that gets votes by acclimation among some of the alt-Right, manosphere-types here.

    Living and encouraging a traditional life is not something that gets a lot of likes among the bitter and alienated young menfolk in the readership here, but I genuinely believe it works for most, if not all, people. And AE’s numbers bear that out.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    Since I have access to IPs, I occasionally test the plausibility of the things commenters claim with what that information provides (it should go without saying that I will absolutely never disclose any of that information to anyone else under any circumstance, ever).

    Twinkie checks out.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Audacious Epigone

    I practice small bits of discretion to keep some semblance of anonymity, but there is no such thing as true privacy online. It's a bit like a home alarm systems - it deters kids and the druggies looking for a quick smash and grab, but it doesn't stop the true experts.

    And there are people on Unz who know who I am (and I appreciate their discretion).

    By the way, I've actually met some well-known white nationalist leaders, and know for a fact that they have different views in private than what they portray in public. Aside from the obvious reason of me not being white, that's another reason why I am not high on that "movement" as such.

    In any case, I sincerely appreciate your very kind words. You are much too generous in your appraisal.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke

  124. ‘…What a blowout. Married women with children are nearly twice as likely to report being “very happy” and about half as likely to report being “not too happy” as unmarried women without children are.’

    I’m all for (non-black) women getting married and having kids, but congenial as I might find the above result, I’m suspicious of it.

    Couldn’t it simply reflect that women who are married and have children are more invested in their decision? If they were unhappy, they might be less willing to admit it than women who aren’t married. After all, at least some unmarried women can look forward to getting married. I doubt if many married women look forward to divorce with optimism and anticipation.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Colin Wright


    I’m all for (non-black) women getting married and having kids
     
    When blacks had higher marriage rates and lower bastardy rates, I think the lives of non-black people around them were better too.

    Replies: @Oblivionrecurs, @Feryl

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @Colin Wright

    Sure. Married women tend to be wealthier and more educated than single women, both things that correlate positively with self-described happiness. The point of the post isn't to insinuate that children necessarily make people happier--it is to point out how absurd it is to argue that they generally make people less happy.

  125. @Truth
    @Audacious Epigone

    Well that's excellent, good for you. And color me a bit surprised.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Johann Ricke

    Well that’s excellent, good for you. And color me a bit surprised.

    You should have some, too. Our children are literally the future of humanity.

    • Replies: @Truth
    @Johann Ricke

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYzlVDlE72w

  126. @iffen
    @dc.sunsets

    You, and many of the commenters here are no different from the SJWs. You have no tolerance for a different opinion.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    You, and many of the commenters here are no different from the SJWs. You have no tolerance for a different opinion.

    That’s nonsense. It’s not that people aren’t tolerant of dissenting views on this thread. It’s that you can’t stand criticism of your views, which are frankly not well put together. Put some big boy pants on and defend your assertions with persuasive reason and data, instead of resorting to cursing, ad hominem, dishonest arguments, and trying to paint everyone who disagree with you as a liar or a SJW.

    Because THAT is most certainly a waste of time and, worse, damages the atmosphere here.

  127. @Colin Wright
    '...What a blowout. Married women with children are nearly twice as likely to report being “very happy” and about half as likely to report being “not too happy” as unmarried women without children are.'

    I'm all for (non-black) women getting married and having kids, but congenial as I might find the above result, I'm suspicious of it.

    Couldn't it simply reflect that women who are married and have children are more invested in their decision? If they were unhappy, they might be less willing to admit it than women who aren't married. After all, at least some unmarried women can look forward to getting married. I doubt if many married women look forward to divorce with optimism and anticipation.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Audacious Epigone

    I’m all for (non-black) women getting married and having kids

    When blacks had higher marriage rates and lower bastardy rates, I think the lives of non-black people around them were better too.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Oblivionrecurs
    @Twinkie

    The few areas in which black-white gaps are relatively small tend to be low-poverty neighborhoods with low levels of racial bias among whites and high rates of father presence among blacks. Black males who move to such neighborhoods earlier in
    childhood earn more and are less likely to be incarcerated. However, fewer than 5% of black children grow up in such environments. These findings suggest that reducing the black-white income gap will require efforts whose impacts cross neighborhood and class lines and increase
    upward mobility specifically for black men

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    , @Feryl
    @Twinkie

    The disintegration of the family began in the 60's and 70's, due to cultural factors promoted by liberals. It was then solidified into place by economic factors (growing yuppie-ism, off-shoring, regressive taxes, a thinning middle class, high immigration levels, acceptance of workplace feminism) promoted by "conservatives" in the 70's-present.

    Leftists in the 60's and 70's rationalized the "uplift" of ethnic/gender/lifestyle minorities, not caring what it would do to the average person's life WRT domestic and psychological stability. But what also happened among Rightists, by the 70's, was an increasing desire to reward the top 20% of earners while glibly denying responsibility for how yuppie-ism/neo-liberalism shreds the cultural and psychological foundation of society, for which the 80% majority pays dearly. The neo-liberal Right is a fraud, doing nothing to stop the intrusion of women into the mass workforce, the invasion of foreign cheap labor, and the importation of cheap foreign goods.

  128. @Audacious Epigone
    @Twinkie

    When I hear people refer to Koreans as the Irish of East Asia, it's the risible irascibility of the teacher in this clip I'm holding in my mind.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    When I hear people refer to Koreans as the Irish of East Asia, it’s the risible irascibility of the teacher in this clip I’m holding in my mind.

    Koreans and the Irish have a lot in common and that includes the pronounced tendency to fight amongst themselves (especially after some alcohol) and being difficult to govern (esp. for outside powers). And some of those tendencies are no doubt products of being colonized by a greater power nearby.

    As Ken Jeong says, “Koreans are the angriest mo-fos in the world.”

  129. @Audacious Epigone
    @Twinkie

    Since I have access to IPs, I occasionally test the plausibility of the things commenters claim with what that information provides (it should go without saying that I will absolutely never disclose any of that information to anyone else under any circumstance, ever).

    Twinkie checks out.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    I practice small bits of discretion to keep some semblance of anonymity, but there is no such thing as true privacy online. It’s a bit like a home alarm systems – it deters kids and the druggies looking for a quick smash and grab, but it doesn’t stop the true experts.

    And there are people on Unz who know who I am (and I appreciate their discretion).

    By the way, I’ve actually met some well-known white nationalist leaders, and know for a fact that they have different views in private than what they portray in public. Aside from the obvious reason of me not being white, that’s another reason why I am not high on that “movement” as such.

    In any case, I sincerely appreciate your very kind words. You are much too generous in your appraisal.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
    @Twinkie


    By the way, I’ve actually met some well-known white nationalist leaders, and know for a fact that they have different views in private than what they portray in public.
     
    Do they round off their hard edges for public consumption?

    Replies: @Twinkie

  130. @Twinkie
    @Audacious Epigone

    I practice small bits of discretion to keep some semblance of anonymity, but there is no such thing as true privacy online. It's a bit like a home alarm systems - it deters kids and the druggies looking for a quick smash and grab, but it doesn't stop the true experts.

    And there are people on Unz who know who I am (and I appreciate their discretion).

    By the way, I've actually met some well-known white nationalist leaders, and know for a fact that they have different views in private than what they portray in public. Aside from the obvious reason of me not being white, that's another reason why I am not high on that "movement" as such.

    In any case, I sincerely appreciate your very kind words. You are much too generous in your appraisal.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke

    By the way, I’ve actually met some well-known white nationalist leaders, and know for a fact that they have different views in private than what they portray in public.

    Do they round off their hard edges for public consumption?

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Johann Ricke


    Do they round off their hard edges for public consumption?
     
    The opposite. They don’t subscribe to the hardline they sell to their followers. And their views regarding low SES whites don’t differ much from Thomm’s, which is to say contemptuous.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke

  131. @Colin Wright
    '...What a blowout. Married women with children are nearly twice as likely to report being “very happy” and about half as likely to report being “not too happy” as unmarried women without children are.'

    I'm all for (non-black) women getting married and having kids, but congenial as I might find the above result, I'm suspicious of it.

    Couldn't it simply reflect that women who are married and have children are more invested in their decision? If they were unhappy, they might be less willing to admit it than women who aren't married. After all, at least some unmarried women can look forward to getting married. I doubt if many married women look forward to divorce with optimism and anticipation.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Audacious Epigone

    Sure. Married women tend to be wealthier and more educated than single women, both things that correlate positively with self-described happiness. The point of the post isn’t to insinuate that children necessarily make people happier–it is to point out how absurd it is to argue that they generally make people less happy.

  132. @Twinkie
    @Colin Wright


    I’m all for (non-black) women getting married and having kids
     
    When blacks had higher marriage rates and lower bastardy rates, I think the lives of non-black people around them were better too.

    Replies: @Oblivionrecurs, @Feryl

    The few areas in which black-white gaps are relatively small tend to be low-poverty neighborhoods with low levels of racial bias among whites and high rates of father presence among blacks. Black males who move to such neighborhoods earlier in
    childhood earn more and are less likely to be incarcerated. However, fewer than 5% of black children grow up in such environments. These findings suggest that reducing the black-white income gap will require efforts whose impacts cross neighborhood and class lines and increase
    upward mobility specifically for black men

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Oblivionrecurs

    'The few areas in which black-white gaps are relatively small tend to be low-poverty neighborhoods with low levels of racial bias among whites and high rates of father presence among blacks. Black males who move to such neighborhoods earlier in
    childhood earn more and are less likely to be incarcerated. However, fewer than 5% of black children grow up in such environments. These findings suggest that reducing the black-white income gap will require efforts whose impacts cross neighborhood and class lines and increase
    upward mobility specifically for black men'


    I'm confident as well that the overwhelming majority of 'blacks' in those neighborhoods are mulattos of one percentage white or another.

    It's very observable in a multi-racial city like Oakland, California: the 'blacks' living in integrated black/white neighborhoods or mostly white neighborhoods are visibly more white genetically themselves than the average black down in West Oakland or in the projects out in East Oakland. Get up in the hills, and the average is about like Eric Holder.

    This is a point I just made elsewhere: when people talk about 'blacks' -- and particularly when they talk about 'blacks' managing to make it in the larger society -- they usually turn out to be referring to mulattos rather than actual 80-100% genetically black blacks. We have, for example, various affirmative action programs that demonstrably benefit mulattos. How many blacks they help is another matter entirely.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

  133. @Anon
    @Twinkie

    I'd give my nephews money if they truly needed (say, for doctor bills), and couldn't get from their parents. I'd definitely help them get good jobs if they were in my field of work.

    But listening to them is as nauseating as listening to any other 20-year old.

    Expecting a woman smart enough to remain childless to tolerate those brats is naive. "Good relations with nieces" is synonymous with IVF.

    Replies: @Truth

    Well at least we have one guy who’s not going to go on blathering about “the low white birthrates…”

  134. @Audacious Epigone
    @Twinkie

    You're what I aspire to be (no homo, no irony).

    Replies: @Truth

    Well, you’re going to make your local Army recruiter’s day…

  135. @Johann Ricke
    @Truth


    Well that’s excellent, good for you. And color me a bit surprised.
     
    You should have some, too. Our children are literally the future of humanity.

    Replies: @Truth

  136. @Oblivionrecurs
    @Twinkie

    The few areas in which black-white gaps are relatively small tend to be low-poverty neighborhoods with low levels of racial bias among whites and high rates of father presence among blacks. Black males who move to such neighborhoods earlier in
    childhood earn more and are less likely to be incarcerated. However, fewer than 5% of black children grow up in such environments. These findings suggest that reducing the black-white income gap will require efforts whose impacts cross neighborhood and class lines and increase
    upward mobility specifically for black men

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘The few areas in which black-white gaps are relatively small tend to be low-poverty neighborhoods with low levels of racial bias among whites and high rates of father presence among blacks. Black males who move to such neighborhoods earlier in
    childhood earn more and are less likely to be incarcerated. However, fewer than 5% of black children grow up in such environments. These findings suggest that reducing the black-white income gap will require efforts whose impacts cross neighborhood and class lines and increase
    upward mobility specifically for black men’

    I’m confident as well that the overwhelming majority of ‘blacks’ in those neighborhoods are mulattos of one percentage white or another.

    It’s very observable in a multi-racial city like Oakland, California: the ‘blacks’ living in integrated black/white neighborhoods or mostly white neighborhoods are visibly more white genetically themselves than the average black down in West Oakland or in the projects out in East Oakland. Get up in the hills, and the average is about like Eric Holder.

    This is a point I just made elsewhere: when people talk about ‘blacks’ — and particularly when they talk about ‘blacks’ managing to make it in the larger society — they usually turn out to be referring to mulattos rather than actual 80-100% genetically black blacks. We have, for example, various affirmative action programs that demonstrably benefit mulattos. How many blacks they help is another matter entirely.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Colin Wright

    On the BP podcast the other day, Razib Khan mentioned a story where some Koreans were asked about Beyonce--they were commenting on how she was pretty but that she looked unhealthily tan. When they were informed that she was black--or what passes as black in the US, anyway--they were incredulous!

    Replies: @Twinkie

  137. @Audacious Epigone
    @dc.sunsets

    I've increasingly noticed tattoos on post-menopausal women. When did it start becoming unremarkable for women to get them? The early nineties, maybe? That would put the front end of the wave at around 50 years old, which seems about right in my experience.

    Replies: @dc.sunsets, @Mark G., @Feryl

    For me, nothing says “I’m a herd animal” more than a tattoo, and the more banal or trivial it is, the more certain I’m left of this conclusion.

    Runner up is the person (often a woman, more often a Mestizo) who has all kinds of family-relevant dates and names and such tattooed.

    I often feel like I’m sliding into a real life experience of Mel Gibson’s Apocalypto, and am increasingly surrounded by literal savages.

  138. @Audacious Epigone
    @dc.sunsets

    I've increasingly noticed tattoos on post-menopausal women. When did it start becoming unremarkable for women to get them? The early nineties, maybe? That would put the front end of the wave at around 50 years old, which seems about right in my experience.

    Replies: @dc.sunsets, @Mark G., @Feryl

    I just had a 28 year old female coworker with multiple tattoos tell me yesterday that she just talked her 62 year old mother into getting her first tattoo. So the post-menopausal women you see getting them may have daughters who are talking them into it.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Mark G.

    Is the skin even taut enough at that age? Gross.

  139. @Johann Ricke
    @Twinkie


    By the way, I’ve actually met some well-known white nationalist leaders, and know for a fact that they have different views in private than what they portray in public.
     
    Do they round off their hard edges for public consumption?

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Do they round off their hard edges for public consumption?

    The opposite. They don’t subscribe to the hardline they sell to their followers. And their views regarding low SES whites don’t differ much from Thomm’s, which is to say contemptuous.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
    @Twinkie


    The opposite. They don’t subscribe to the hardline they sell to their followers. And their views regarding low SES whites don’t differ much from Thomm’s, which is to say contemptuous.
     
    That's a real head-scratcher. Why put up with the public obloquy? It's not like this is some great money-making scheme like the prosperity gospel, which at least dangles the prospect of manna from heaven and an eternity in paradise.

    Replies: @SFG

  140. @Twinkie
    @Mark G.


    Many older single women fall into that category of women who complain about lack of men while turning down every guy they meet.
     
    The sad thing is, the single woman to whom I referred above is actually quite attractive and well-educated. She is a generally pretty considerate person, too.

    But as she has gotten older and more desperate, her standards have risen, not declined. It's almost as if she waited this long and passed on so many men that she now has to justify all that by having impossibly high standards. What's even worse is that she has a very bad case of "the grass is greener on the other side of the fence" syndrome on top of all that. My wife is starting to get a tad bit creeped out by her constant complaints about single men she meets, followed by "Oh, you are so lucky, because you have such a great husband." And I am not the only husband about whom she has said things of this sort.

    In other words, this lady is turning her nose up at all the available single men, but is beginning to get fixated on married men.* That is most assuredly not healthy and doesn't bode well for the rest of the fecund period of her life.

    *Though my wife does half-jokingly say that married men are, by definition, pre-selected by other women and that means something for women on the hunt for men.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @Justvisiting

    Your wife is speaking the simple truth. Women want men who are desired by other women. It is hard-wired. The best explanation I have read on it is that women are generally social creatures heavily influenced by the opinion of others. Many more men could care less what others think of their choices.

    That is why giving women the vote was a gigantic error that will end in tears for all such societies–women are much more subject to the mob mentality, a short term time horizon, more easily led by demagogues playing on emotions.

    Some lessons just have to be learned the hard way.

  141. SFG says:
    @Twinkie
    @Audacious Epigone


    Three. Nothing makes me happier than they do.
     
    Have another one. I mentioned this before, but three under age five to six is absolutely the most difficult, but then it gets better, much better after that.

    In fact, have more after the next one - you will eventually have built-in babysitters with the older children. Nowadays my oldest child makes breakfast and lunch for the rest of the children. My second oldest reviews much of the homeschooling work the little ones do. It's getting embarrassingly easy for my wife and me (except for shuttling the children to the various athletic and extracurricular activities - we have something for somebody everyday).

    You should have so many children that there are cliques among the children. It's pretty fun and funny (for me anyway).

    Not only is my wife very fulfilled and happy, because of our children, we know so many mothers in our social circle who are breaming and beaming with joy, because of their children.

    On the other hand, we know two childless couples and one single woman pretty well. The childless couples are always traveling and doing hobbies (and spoiling their pets to ridiculous degrees - one of the couples has a dog with its own bedroom, bed, and stairs to the said bed, etc.). We have noted that the two couples have grown apart and seemingly constantly annoyed with each other. They have become like roommates. Frankly, they look a bit sad. And the single woman is absolutely desperate, yet extremely picky. She turns down every guy she meets, but is always complaining about lack of men. She is freezing her eggs.

    Of course, one thing I should note is that having "children = happiness" may be both causal and self-selection. I do think that, on average, having children makes women happier. On other hand, there are some women who are wired wrongly and become absolutely miserable with taking care of even one child. Some women are meant to be that childless shrew of an aunt, I guess. :)

    Replies: @Logan, @Rosie, @Mark G., @Budd Dwyer, @Audacious Epigone, @Almost Missouri, @SFG

    The Christian (or at least Catholic and Orthodox) tradition has always had roles for men and women who didn’t want to reproduce, and the contemplative life was always well respected at least through the Middle Ages. That was more communal, though.

    I suspect a lot of these feminist journalists would have become nuns in another era. We’re still reading Hildegard von Bingen centuries later, albeit not as much as we did. But…well, if the religion of the era is corrupt (and social justice appeals to many religious impulses such as a greater sense of meaning, a desire to help the oppressed, and a desire to persecute evildoers), its devotees will follow corrupt ends.

    • Agree: Twinkie
  142. SFG says:
    @Audacious Epigone
    @SFG

    Kind of, but it could stand to be more focused.

    Replies: @SFG

    Thanks! I’m curious to see what you come up with. Though looking at some of the comments, perhaps this is a fight you don’t want to start. 😉

    That prelim thing does have the effect I expected–there’s a small antidepressant effect on men as well, though smaller than that on women. Makes sense as it might make sense in some cases for some men to delay family formation until they can accumulate the necessary resources (though it can certainly be overdone), whereas women have a hard fertility cutoff.

    Myself I’m probably too old (and am a little concerned about spawning little high-IQ SJWs), but I would never try to talk anyone out of having kids. Long as you can pay for them, anyway.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @SFG

    I wasn't sure about the strength of my nurturing instinct before having kids. Fortunately for me, I've discovered that it is strong for a man.

    As for worrying that they won't amount to what you hope they'll amount to, that is a guarantee if they never come into existence in the first place!

  143. @Twinkie
    @Johann Ricke


    Do they round off their hard edges for public consumption?
     
    The opposite. They don’t subscribe to the hardline they sell to their followers. And their views regarding low SES whites don’t differ much from Thomm’s, which is to say contemptuous.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke

    The opposite. They don’t subscribe to the hardline they sell to their followers. And their views regarding low SES whites don’t differ much from Thomm’s, which is to say contemptuous.

    That’s a real head-scratcher. Why put up with the public obloquy? It’s not like this is some great money-making scheme like the prosperity gospel, which at least dangles the prospect of manna from heaven and an eternity in paradise.

    • Replies: @SFG
    @Johann Ricke

    My best guess is you have some unusual ideas and you find an audience. And after you've gone off the reservation and pissed off the normies (and the PC powers that be), well, you have to make a living somehow.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  144. @iffen
    @iffen

    Troll: UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    Factual description of reality. That's what threw you off.

    Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian, @Oleaginous Outrager

    Baseless assertion, with far too much confidence in its truth.. That’s what makes it trolling.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Oleaginous Outrager

    That’s what makes it trolling.

    That's not trolling. I can and do troll, but not that comment.

    You want me to have little or no confidence in my assertions?

    The bases are there, you just have to have the ability to recognize them, can't help you with that.

  145. @Johann Ricke
    @Twinkie


    The opposite. They don’t subscribe to the hardline they sell to their followers. And their views regarding low SES whites don’t differ much from Thomm’s, which is to say contemptuous.
     
    That's a real head-scratcher. Why put up with the public obloquy? It's not like this is some great money-making scheme like the prosperity gospel, which at least dangles the prospect of manna from heaven and an eternity in paradise.

    Replies: @SFG

    My best guess is you have some unusual ideas and you find an audience. And after you’ve gone off the reservation and pissed off the normies (and the PC powers that be), well, you have to make a living somehow.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @SFG

    That's the case with some of them. I would also add that, at least initially, they liked the attention, both positive and negative. Moreover, that attention was (is) magnified the more extreme their public positions became (notwithstanding what they actually believed). But for several of them their extreme public views have become akin to riding on the back of a tiger - can't get off and can't hold on to the tiger.

  146. @Oleaginous Outrager
    @iffen

    Baseless assertion, with far too much confidence in its truth.. That's what makes it trolling.

    Replies: @iffen

    That’s what makes it trolling.

    That’s not trolling. I can and do troll, but not that comment.

    You want me to have little or no confidence in my assertions?

    The bases are there, you just have to have the ability to recognize them, can’t help you with that.

  147. @Colin Wright
    @Oblivionrecurs

    'The few areas in which black-white gaps are relatively small tend to be low-poverty neighborhoods with low levels of racial bias among whites and high rates of father presence among blacks. Black males who move to such neighborhoods earlier in
    childhood earn more and are less likely to be incarcerated. However, fewer than 5% of black children grow up in such environments. These findings suggest that reducing the black-white income gap will require efforts whose impacts cross neighborhood and class lines and increase
    upward mobility specifically for black men'


    I'm confident as well that the overwhelming majority of 'blacks' in those neighborhoods are mulattos of one percentage white or another.

    It's very observable in a multi-racial city like Oakland, California: the 'blacks' living in integrated black/white neighborhoods or mostly white neighborhoods are visibly more white genetically themselves than the average black down in West Oakland or in the projects out in East Oakland. Get up in the hills, and the average is about like Eric Holder.

    This is a point I just made elsewhere: when people talk about 'blacks' -- and particularly when they talk about 'blacks' managing to make it in the larger society -- they usually turn out to be referring to mulattos rather than actual 80-100% genetically black blacks. We have, for example, various affirmative action programs that demonstrably benefit mulattos. How many blacks they help is another matter entirely.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    On the BP podcast the other day, Razib Khan mentioned a story where some Koreans were asked about Beyonce–they were commenting on how she was pretty but that she looked unhealthily tan. When they were informed that she was black–or what passes as black in the US, anyway–they were incredulous!

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Audacious Epigone


    unhealthily tan.
     
    Someone should show these Koreans the pictures of the various leaders of the NAACP and record the reactions when informed that these people are "blacks."
  148. @Mark G.
    @Audacious Epigone

    I just had a 28 year old female coworker with multiple tattoos tell me yesterday that she just talked her 62 year old mother into getting her first tattoo. So the post-menopausal women you see getting them may have daughters who are talking them into it.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    Is the skin even taut enough at that age? Gross.

  149. @SFG
    @Audacious Epigone

    Thanks! I'm curious to see what you come up with. Though looking at some of the comments, perhaps this is a fight you don't want to start. ;)

    That prelim thing does have the effect I expected--there's a small antidepressant effect on men as well, though smaller than that on women. Makes sense as it might make sense in some cases for some men to delay family formation until they can accumulate the necessary resources (though it can certainly be overdone), whereas women have a hard fertility cutoff.


    Myself I'm probably too old (and am a little concerned about spawning little high-IQ SJWs), but I would never try to talk anyone out of having kids. Long as you can pay for them, anyway.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    I wasn’t sure about the strength of my nurturing instinct before having kids. Fortunately for me, I’ve discovered that it is strong for a man.

    As for worrying that they won’t amount to what you hope they’ll amount to, that is a guarantee if they never come into existence in the first place!

  150. @Audacious Epigone
    @dc.sunsets

    I've increasingly noticed tattoos on post-menopausal women. When did it start becoming unremarkable for women to get them? The early nineties, maybe? That would put the front end of the wave at around 50 years old, which seems about right in my experience.

    Replies: @dc.sunsets, @Mark G., @Feryl

    Tattoos, nose rings etc. all started to appear in the GHW Bush era, mostly confined to a minority of people under 30. You generally don’t see these things with early Boomers or Silents, who were too old by 1990 to buy into what was becoming fashionable at that time and in subsequent eras. These things have all gotten more and more popular with each passing decade, for what reason I have no clue. In the 90’s it was often assumed that this was “Gen X” culture that would fade away, but much like how things like high divorce rates were supposed to diminish back to mid-century levels but still haven’t, it’s fair to say that some (though not all) of the trends of the last 50 years are either as bad as ever (like obesity and suicide and “despair” consumption of alcohol/drugs), or only slightly better than they were in the 70’s, 80’s, or 90’s.

  151. @Twinkie
    @Colin Wright


    I’m all for (non-black) women getting married and having kids
     
    When blacks had higher marriage rates and lower bastardy rates, I think the lives of non-black people around them were better too.

    Replies: @Oblivionrecurs, @Feryl

    The disintegration of the family began in the 60’s and 70’s, due to cultural factors promoted by liberals. It was then solidified into place by economic factors (growing yuppie-ism, off-shoring, regressive taxes, a thinning middle class, high immigration levels, acceptance of workplace feminism) promoted by “conservatives” in the 70’s-present.

    Leftists in the 60’s and 70’s rationalized the “uplift” of ethnic/gender/lifestyle minorities, not caring what it would do to the average person’s life WRT domestic and psychological stability. But what also happened among Rightists, by the 70’s, was an increasing desire to reward the top 20% of earners while glibly denying responsibility for how yuppie-ism/neo-liberalism shreds the cultural and psychological foundation of society, for which the 80% majority pays dearly. The neo-liberal Right is a fraud, doing nothing to stop the intrusion of women into the mass workforce, the invasion of foreign cheap labor, and the importation of cheap foreign goods.

  152. @216
    @Audacious Epigone

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bxh7zbxBqfy/

    This is Ivanka Trump pictured with Mark Benioff, who threatened the state of Indiana with economic destruction for not kowtowing to GayPride.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BxyUGP-BZJQ/

    This is Ivanka Trump being rewarded by Silicon Don lobbyists.

    Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike, @Feryl, @Feryl

    First, back in the 70’s, “conservatives” had to recognize the imperative of “uplifting” blacks and women from their traditional station in life. We can piss and moan about liberals creating these ideas, but at what point does the Right take responsibility for not effectively fighting back? And the 70’s were the “right turn” for American politics, anyway (protectionism began to decline, unions began to fall out of favor, public support for mass incarceration increased, people on welfare were attacked for being lazy bums, etc.).

    In the 80’s, it was then onto “uplifting” foreigners from their blighted homelands, importing them into the first world. The Right did nothing to oppose, or even really question, this development.

    In the 90’s and 2000’s, it was then onto “uplifting” homosexuals. This did in fact arouse superficial opposition, because there is a sense of disgust here that isn’t necessarily present with blacks/women/immigrants. In fact, “liberals” like Clinton and Obama were rather demure in their approach to gay issues, fearing being seen as too liberal before circa 2010. Yet it’s plainly obvious that the Right (!) has been pandering to gays since the 80’s, what with the 1980’s yuppie and campus preppie Young Republican movements* being blatantly decadent and full of gays**.

    In the 2010’s, after the Right abdicated it’s responsibility for decades, we now have moved onto “uplifting” trannies. The mind reels. What’s next, pedophiles?

    *Even the 1960’s counter-culture was much tougher and braver than the corporatist weenies who’ve set the Republican agenda since the 80’s; note that risible statements from people like Paul Ryan that we shouldn’t “tell” any company how to run their affairs. Get lost, you pathetic suck ups and wimps. We shouldn’t let nerds with nice hair cuts run our affairs, what a bunch of baloney.

    **the Log Cabin Republican movement which has existed for over 20 years is literally a gay Republican PAC; Ken Mehlman eventually came out as gay (he was RNC Chairman in the 2000’s), Larry Craig was exposed as gay, and countless others have been forced out of the closet by scandals.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Feryl

    About a year ago National Review had an article entitled something like "The Transgender Compromise". Conservatism conserves nothing.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Feryl

  153. @216
    @Audacious Epigone

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bxh7zbxBqfy/

    This is Ivanka Trump pictured with Mark Benioff, who threatened the state of Indiana with economic destruction for not kowtowing to GayPride.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BxyUGP-BZJQ/

    This is Ivanka Trump being rewarded by Silicon Don lobbyists.

    Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike, @Feryl, @Feryl

    Let’s also not forget that hushed up scandal, that threatened to break in the late 80’s, about the late Reagan era and GHW Bush era giving rise to a culture of older gay figures exploiting young male congressional pages. Of course, New Dealer Nixon told his associates off the record that homosexual domination of our affairs goes hand and hand with a society decaying. And pre-Boomers, in the 1970’s and 80’s, tended to be very suspicious of gays. As the New Dealers diminished in influence, and the corporatist Right became more popular, gays felt more emboldened.

  154. @Feryl
    @216

    First, back in the 70's, "conservatives" had to recognize the imperative of "uplifting" blacks and women from their traditional station in life. We can piss and moan about liberals creating these ideas, but at what point does the Right take responsibility for not effectively fighting back? And the 70's were the "right turn" for American politics, anyway (protectionism began to decline, unions began to fall out of favor, public support for mass incarceration increased, people on welfare were attacked for being lazy bums, etc.).

    In the 80's, it was then onto "uplifting" foreigners from their blighted homelands, importing them into the first world. The Right did nothing to oppose, or even really question, this development.

    In the 90's and 2000's, it was then onto "uplifting" homosexuals. This did in fact arouse superficial opposition, because there is a sense of disgust here that isn't necessarily present with blacks/women/immigrants. In fact, "liberals" like Clinton and Obama were rather demure in their approach to gay issues, fearing being seen as too liberal before circa 2010. Yet it's plainly obvious that the Right (!) has been pandering to gays since the 80's, what with the 1980's yuppie and campus preppie Young Republican movements* being blatantly decadent and full of gays**.

    In the 2010's, after the Right abdicated it's responsibility for decades, we now have moved onto "uplifting" trannies. The mind reels. What's next, pedophiles?

    *Even the 1960's counter-culture was much tougher and braver than the corporatist weenies who've set the Republican agenda since the 80's; note that risible statements from people like Paul Ryan that we shouldn't "tell" any company how to run their affairs. Get lost, you pathetic suck ups and wimps. We shouldn't let nerds with nice hair cuts run our affairs, what a bunch of baloney.

    **the Log Cabin Republican movement which has existed for over 20 years is literally a gay Republican PAC; Ken Mehlman eventually came out as gay (he was RNC Chairman in the 2000's), Larry Craig was exposed as gay, and countless others have been forced out of the closet by scandals.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    About a year ago National Review had an article entitled something like “The Transgender Compromise”. Conservatism conserves nothing.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Audacious Epigone


    About a year ago National Review had an article entitled something like “The Transgender Compromise”. Conservatism conserves nothing.
     
    I was about to punch the "Agree" button until I realized it isn't quite true. Conservatism certainly conserves corporate tax cuts and farm subsidies.
    , @Feryl
    @Audacious Epigone

    Well, there's no agreed upon definition of conservatism, anyway. Every era, every party, every person has a mixed ideology that falls in various places on the cultural/econ./foreign policy spectrum. Anglo-Burkean ideas about "small" government would certainly seem vastly out of place in most times and places, given that most people are too threatened by invaders/the presence or possibility of instability to think that's it's a good idea encourage people to atomize into nuclear families (or living alone, or living without children) and expect and even enjoy the absence of large/strong government.

    In practice, Anglo-Burkean conservatism was ever only real put into practice during some periods of English history, and some periods of Anglo-New World history. Furthermore, even during these periods the Anglo authorities (whether they were local/state/federal) enforced some sort of policy regarding disfavored minorities (e.g. blacks, Indians, Irish etc.) to insure that Anglo norms and security would be looked after.

    Anglo "small government" conservatives will never have the sort of circumstances under which everyone will have the same theoretical rights and freedoms. We went from openly favoring Protestant whites and men, to going in reverse with affirmative action and multi-culturalism*. In practice, life/society are never going to come anywhere close to ignoring ID, and refusing to make policy regarding such. Guys like JB Peterson** are re-kindling nostalgia for a period that never existed, and never will (every society, even in the absence of specific legislation, ultimately is run to one group's benefit or another).

    *You could certainly make the argument that the average person in America was happier in the 1950's, when people accepted some degree of racial/gender segregation, and society did almost nothing to acknowledge sexual minorities, let alone risk alienating normal people by celebrating weirdos). The point of segregation wasn't just to be mean, it was also to keep the peace (for example, for a long time it was accepted that white men would feel humiliated by, and lash out at, black men who "stole" white women; by strongly discouraging cross-racial relationships, you would diminish the possibility of sexual jealousy.

    **Peterson won't acknowledge that ideology without ID politics (which also can include social class), in practice, has never really existed. Invariably some ethnic group will be more supportive, or more opposed, to a given aspect of ideology. The Democrats in the New Deal era championed non-WASP whites in the industrial North and the impoverished South***; after 1964 they increasingly championed blacks and immigrants. The GOP once catered to Northeastern WASPs and anti-government Westerners; they now cater to religious, rural, and older whites.

    ***The economic and demographic shifts of the 1970's-present have made the New Deal coalition untenable. The collapse of the New Deal coalition has been blamed on cultural shifts of the late 60's and early 70's, but had our economy and demographics remained the same, the New Deal coalition could be revived to be a strong force. As it is right now, Trump basically rode the New Deal coaliton to victory, yet whites are shrinking in the overall population, and what's more, the average white American is now far more educated and culturally liberal than he was in the 1960's (the New Deal was predicated on culturally conservative working class whites).

  155. @SFG
    @Johann Ricke

    My best guess is you have some unusual ideas and you find an audience. And after you've gone off the reservation and pissed off the normies (and the PC powers that be), well, you have to make a living somehow.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    That’s the case with some of them. I would also add that, at least initially, they liked the attention, both positive and negative. Moreover, that attention was (is) magnified the more extreme their public positions became (notwithstanding what they actually believed). But for several of them their extreme public views have become akin to riding on the back of a tiger – can’t get off and can’t hold on to the tiger.

  156. @Audacious Epigone
    @Colin Wright

    On the BP podcast the other day, Razib Khan mentioned a story where some Koreans were asked about Beyonce--they were commenting on how she was pretty but that she looked unhealthily tan. When they were informed that she was black--or what passes as black in the US, anyway--they were incredulous!

    Replies: @Twinkie

    unhealthily tan.

    Someone should show these Koreans the pictures of the various leaders of the NAACP and record the reactions when informed that these people are “blacks.”

  157. @Audacious Epigone
    @Feryl

    About a year ago National Review had an article entitled something like "The Transgender Compromise". Conservatism conserves nothing.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Feryl

    About a year ago National Review had an article entitled something like “The Transgender Compromise”. Conservatism conserves nothing.

    I was about to punch the “Agree” button until I realized it isn’t quite true. Conservatism certainly conserves corporate tax cuts and farm subsidies.

    • LOL: Johann Ricke
  158. @Audacious Epigone
    @Feryl

    About a year ago National Review had an article entitled something like "The Transgender Compromise". Conservatism conserves nothing.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Feryl

    Well, there’s no agreed upon definition of conservatism, anyway. Every era, every party, every person has a mixed ideology that falls in various places on the cultural/econ./foreign policy spectrum. Anglo-Burkean ideas about “small” government would certainly seem vastly out of place in most times and places, given that most people are too threatened by invaders/the presence or possibility of instability to think that’s it’s a good idea encourage people to atomize into nuclear families (or living alone, or living without children) and expect and even enjoy the absence of large/strong government.

    In practice, Anglo-Burkean conservatism was ever only real put into practice during some periods of English history, and some periods of Anglo-New World history. Furthermore, even during these periods the Anglo authorities (whether they were local/state/federal) enforced some sort of policy regarding disfavored minorities (e.g. blacks, Indians, Irish etc.) to insure that Anglo norms and security would be looked after.

    Anglo “small government” conservatives will never have the sort of circumstances under which everyone will have the same theoretical rights and freedoms. We went from openly favoring Protestant whites and men, to going in reverse with affirmative action and multi-culturalism*. In practice, life/society are never going to come anywhere close to ignoring ID, and refusing to make policy regarding such. Guys like JB Peterson** are re-kindling nostalgia for a period that never existed, and never will (every society, even in the absence of specific legislation, ultimately is run to one group’s benefit or another).

    *You could certainly make the argument that the average person in America was happier in the 1950’s, when people accepted some degree of racial/gender segregation, and society did almost nothing to acknowledge sexual minorities, let alone risk alienating normal people by celebrating weirdos). The point of segregation wasn’t just to be mean, it was also to keep the peace (for example, for a long time it was accepted that white men would feel humiliated by, and lash out at, black men who “stole” white women; by strongly discouraging cross-racial relationships, you would diminish the possibility of sexual jealousy.

    **Peterson won’t acknowledge that ideology without ID politics (which also can include social class), in practice, has never really existed. Invariably some ethnic group will be more supportive, or more opposed, to a given aspect of ideology. The Democrats in the New Deal era championed non-WASP whites in the industrial North and the impoverished South***; after 1964 they increasingly championed blacks and immigrants. The GOP once catered to Northeastern WASPs and anti-government Westerners; they now cater to religious, rural, and older whites.

    ***The economic and demographic shifts of the 1970’s-present have made the New Deal coalition untenable. The collapse of the New Deal coalition has been blamed on cultural shifts of the late 60’s and early 70’s, but had our economy and demographics remained the same, the New Deal coalition could be revived to be a strong force. As it is right now, Trump basically rode the New Deal coaliton to victory, yet whites are shrinking in the overall population, and what’s more, the average white American is now far more educated and culturally liberal than he was in the 1960’s (the New Deal was predicated on culturally conservative working class whites).

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Audacious Epigone Comments via RSS