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Almost Missouri on the beta testing of the corporatist neo-liberal establishment that was the Trump presidency:

Like everything else in the Trump program, the Capitol Protest (I decline to grant the enemy framing of “riot”) was all bark and no bite, all stomping loudly and carrying a tiny twig, all striking at a king without killing him. Like everything else Trump did , it just pointed out the Establishment’s weaknesses to them without actually exploiting the openings, so now the Establishment is reinforcing all their exposed vulnerabilities so that no one more capable can ever break through.

The State of the Union will be a heavily militarized event. Trump was mocked for wanting a military parade through the capital during his term; now Joe Biden is getting a permanent one. The left used to recoil in horror at this sort of militarism. No longer.

One of the podcast series I subscribe to examines political figures from the Roman empire. Having worked through the emperors, it has circled back to examine their wives and mothers. The subtext often is that sympathy should be had for the relatively diminished amount of direct power and influence these women had on account of being women in a patriarchal society, as though only having it better than 99.99% of their contemporaries instead of better than 99.999% of their contemporaries as their husbands and sons did is a historical outrage!

The Woke touch is light and the series is a good one. It is merely a product of the broader cultural zeitgeist that sees this focus on ethnic and sexual identities rather than on class as a feature rather than a bug, as dfordoom writes:

Gender and racial equality are pushed as substitutes for actual equality. They’re intended to distract people from the fact that actual inequality is steadily increasing.

It’s not just wealth inequality that is increasing. The divides between socio-economic classes are becoming sharper and sharper. The contempt of the upper and upper middle classes for the lower classes grows steadily. The cultural and ideological gulfs between the privileged and non-privileged socio-economic classes grow ever wider.

The upper and upper middle classes consider the lower classes to be barely human.

Not unrelatedly, Intelligent Dasein on how if not outright hated by the patricians, the plebes are increasingly viewed as nothing more than grist for the mill to stave off the end of the feast for as long as they can:

A third post on the Texas energy fiasco: Texas was seconds and minutes away from a complete disaster.

If you read the article, the point made therein is that the grid operators decided to sacrifice a few million people for the “greater good” of covering up their own incompetence, because the grid was about to fail catastrophically. You may notice a common theme here with many other current events that seem to be coming to a head right about now. Let’s take a look at some.

1. Remember the “flatten the curve” nonsense, when it was decided that lockdowns and social distancing were necessary to save the healthcare system, so people were not allowed to get their necessary checkups and treatments? It is supposed to be the job of the healthcare system to help the people, not the other way around.

2. Observe how the Robinhooders just got fleeced when they tried to short-squeeze Gamestop. I wrote what happened to be a timely commentary upon this, even though it was in reference to something else: When the SHTF, they will not let you sell your stock. They will lock up your money and take it.

3. The crowning example of this ensemble is, I believe, the $18 trillion of negative-yielding debt sloshing about in the global bond markets. This is a monetary bizarro world where no rules apply and anything is possible, because standards have been turned upside down.

These separate phenomena all share the same Platonic form: It is the form of the elites literally sacrificing the proles to protect the system. It is an inversion of justice in a society that no longer serves the needs of its own members. It is like Roman proconsuls sacking their own provinces to gain the wherewithal for their political machinations back in the imperial city.

This is why the world is stuck in an irreversible decline of ever expanding debt loads, ever eroding capital base, ever diminishing social cohesion, and population collapse. The decline will not be symmetrical with the ascent. The ascent was a slow, organic growth that compounded the gains of many centuries. But at the apex everything becomes entangled in petty economic problems, the factions split off, and the heads of the hydra start biting each other. Great masses of now superfluous humanity are simply discarded or used up in pointless intrigues that even future historians won’t understand. This is the endgame, the West’s final blow-off top.

The task at hand now is to position yourself to come through that blow-off top in one piece.

 
• Category: Culture/Society, Economics, History, Ideology • Tags: COTW 
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  1. Casein is one of the few folks who regularly ‘gets it’.

  2. all striking at a king without killing him.

    That is precisely what Trump did, and his supporters are paying the price.

    The subtext often is that sympathy should be had for the relatively diminished amount of direct power and influence these women had on account of being women in a patriarchal society, as though only having it better than 99.99% of their contemporaries instead of better than 99.999% of their contemporaries as their husbands and sons did is a historical outrage!

    AE, this is a rare but glaring logical error on your part. Privilege is not power, and it is correct to place the blame on those who actually have, as you say, “direct power and influence.”

    • Replies: @Boomthorkell
    @Rosie

    This implies though they didn't have power. Women-in-the-family do indeed have an effect on Men-in-the-family, and society on a macro and micro-level. This is speaking outside the fact they raise, educate, and enculterate the children.

    Replies: @Rosie, @Twinkie

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @Rosie

    Livia, wife of Augustus, had a lot of power. Much more than the modal man in Rome at the time, let alone male slaves. Of course, the modal man and the male slave had more power than the modal woman and female slave, too.

  3. Like everything else Trump did , it just pointed out the Establishment’s weaknesses to them without actually exploiting the openings, so now the Establishment is reinforcing all their exposed vulnerabilities so that no one more capable can ever break through.

    This isn’t the end of the logic here. Because the Establishment is scared, they’re not as concerned about optics as they were in the past. Biden killing Syrians, caging brown kids, turning DC into his own personal fort and being useless on Corona polarizes people on the left. The wonderful BidenLs twitter has countless highlights of Biden voters regretting their decision or doubling down on defending the dumb Irish bastard and his punjabi diversity hire, insane as that might be.

    The potential for a cascade effect here is massive. The people defending Biden look insane, the continued malfeasance by the Establishment pushes people to the right and if they lose in 2022 and 2024, there’s a high chance they’ll overplay their hand, cheat too hard to cover up and the house of cards falls apart. The Establishment being as terrified of Trump or a right wing push in America is going to result in draconian policies, accelerated timetables for horrendous things (like a war with Iran) and obvious failures of policy (like a failure to fund Social Security or Medicare). The more dumb things they do to preserve themselves, the more they unify everyone against them.

    Things are going to become more difficult for the hacks in government because they’re unrepentant, unintelligent sociopaths that can hear the hunting dogs closing in, imagined or real. Watch and wait for stupid, dumb bullshit to happen because that’s the end result of self-preserving morons being in charge.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Wyatt


    The potential for a cascade effect here is massive. The people defending Biden look insane, the continued malfeasance by the Establishment pushes people to the right
     
    It won't necessarily push people to the Right. It will push people towards any group or party or faction that appears to have plausible answers. Since the GOPe offers no plausible answers to anything they're obviously not likely to benefit from any cascade effect. Whether the Trumpists will benefit depends on how viable a 78-year-old Donald Trump will be as a candidate in 2014, and on whether they can find a viable alternative candidate (maybe Ivanka?) if the Donald is too feeble.

    Could the dissident right convince anyone that they offer plausible answers, especially on economic issues? Unlikely, but miracles do happen.

    The old school Economic Left would be in an excellent position to benefit, except that the old school Economic Left scarcely exists any more. But a younger version of Bernie Sanders might be able to led a revival. The communists would be in an excellent position to benefit as well, except that they don't exist at all any more.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @V. K. Ovelund

    , @Realist
    @Wyatt


    This isn’t the end of the logic here.
     
    Logic in this country is, for the most part, dead.

    Biden this...Trump that, means nothing the Deep State is in control and has been for decades.
    , @TomSchmidt
    @Wyatt

    Actual debt forgiveness wipes out the claim the banking class has on the rest of us. That's the Achilles heel of the elite. Debt forgiveness appears to be a leftist or Marxist policy. But since the deep state is in neoliberal hands, and a debt forgiveness strips the backers of the DS of wealth and hopefully power, debt forgiveness is in effect a rightist policy.

    It doesn't hurt that the chief backer of the 2005 bankruptcy reform law that clamped down tighter on debtors was the Senator from MBNA, headquartered in Delaware.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

  4. I notice that nobody responds to the lede here. The buried lede really is: “Gender and racial equality are pushed as substitutes for actual equality. They’re intended to distract people from the fact that actual inequality is steadily increasing.”

    This is the only lede. The lede of everything, even when it’s not mentioned. Class–not race. Class–not race. Class–not race.

    • Replies: @neutral
    @obwandiyag

    Race will always matter more than class. Race is what determines the level of civilization that can be achieved, thus it determines the type of class system possible.

    Replies: @Magic Dirt Resident, @Charles Pewitt

    , @Not Only Wrathful
    @obwandiyag

    Both "race" and "class" often serve as useful props in the psychodramas people play in their own heads. They don't have to, they can have real world effects, but that's how they function most of the time.

    Both race and class have some explanatory power. Those who believe they have all or no explanatory power are being sincere, but they are also extremely confused. They hyperfocus on those issues in the same way an anorexic might hyperfocus on their thigh gap.

    , @Mulga Mumblebrain
    @obwandiyag

    Exactly!!!All the Divide and Rule tactics, the Woke lunacy, BLM, transgender insanity etc, are diversions designed to stop the 'useless classes', now c.90% of the populace, from identifying their true enemy. Not one another but the predatory, blood-sucking, parasite classes.

  5. @Rosie

    all striking at a king without killing him.
     
    That is precisely what Trump did, and his supporters are paying the price.

    The subtext often is that sympathy should be had for the relatively diminished amount of direct power and influence these women had on account of being women in a patriarchal society, as though only having it better than 99.99% of their contemporaries instead of better than 99.999% of their contemporaries as their husbands and sons did is a historical outrage!
     
    AE, this is a rare but glaring logical error on your part. Privilege is not power, and it is correct to place the blame on those who actually have, as you say, "direct power and influence."

    Replies: @Boomthorkell, @Audacious Epigone

    This implies though they didn’t have power. Women-in-the-family do indeed have an effect on Men-in-the-family, and society on a macro and micro-level. This is speaking outside the fact they raise, educate, and enculterate the children.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    @Boomthorkell


    This implies though they didn’t have power. Women-in-the-family do indeed have an effect on Men-in-the-family, and society on a macro and micro-level. This is speaking outside the fact they raise, educate, and enculterate the children.
     
    Sorry. We're not taking the blame for your historical atrocities.

    You don’t get to monopolize institutional power and then disclaim any responsibility for how you use it.

    Nice try, though.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful

    , @Twinkie
    @Boomthorkell


    This implies though they didn’t have power. Women-in-the-family do indeed have an effect on Men-in-the-family, and society on a macro and micro-level. This is speaking outside the fact they raise, educate, and enculterate the children.
     
    That’s influence, not power.

    The president of the United States can flatten most countries in the world with the greatest collection of military force the world has ever seen. With the threat of this, he can compel these nations to do his bidding (to varying degrees) without the actual use (consumption) of the said force. His advisor who urges this or that course of action, in turn, has influence.

    Force, power, and influence are highly interrelated, but they are not the same thing and have different manners of attainment, use, efficacy, and dissipation.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful

  6. @Wyatt

    Like everything else Trump did , it just pointed out the Establishment’s weaknesses to them without actually exploiting the openings, so now the Establishment is reinforcing all their exposed vulnerabilities so that no one more capable can ever break through.
     
    This isn't the end of the logic here. Because the Establishment is scared, they're not as concerned about optics as they were in the past. Biden killing Syrians, caging brown kids, turning DC into his own personal fort and being useless on Corona polarizes people on the left. The wonderful BidenLs twitter has countless highlights of Biden voters regretting their decision or doubling down on defending the dumb Irish bastard and his punjabi diversity hire, insane as that might be.

    The potential for a cascade effect here is massive. The people defending Biden look insane, the continued malfeasance by the Establishment pushes people to the right and if they lose in 2022 and 2024, there's a high chance they'll overplay their hand, cheat too hard to cover up and the house of cards falls apart. The Establishment being as terrified of Trump or a right wing push in America is going to result in draconian policies, accelerated timetables for horrendous things (like a war with Iran) and obvious failures of policy (like a failure to fund Social Security or Medicare). The more dumb things they do to preserve themselves, the more they unify everyone against them.

    Things are going to become more difficult for the hacks in government because they're unrepentant, unintelligent sociopaths that can hear the hunting dogs closing in, imagined or real. Watch and wait for stupid, dumb bullshit to happen because that's the end result of self-preserving morons being in charge.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Realist, @TomSchmidt

    The potential for a cascade effect here is massive. The people defending Biden look insane, the continued malfeasance by the Establishment pushes people to the right

    It won’t necessarily push people to the Right. It will push people towards any group or party or faction that appears to have plausible answers. Since the GOPe offers no plausible answers to anything they’re obviously not likely to benefit from any cascade effect. Whether the Trumpists will benefit depends on how viable a 78-year-old Donald Trump will be as a candidate in 2014, and on whether they can find a viable alternative candidate (maybe Ivanka?) if the Donald is too feeble.

    Could the dissident right convince anyone that they offer plausible answers, especially on economic issues? Unlikely, but miracles do happen.

    The old school Economic Left would be in an excellent position to benefit, except that the old school Economic Left scarcely exists any more. But a younger version of Bernie Sanders might be able to led a revival. The communists would be in an excellent position to benefit as well, except that they don’t exist at all any more.

    • Agree: iffen, Talha
    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @dfordoom


    ... whether they can find a viable alternative candidate (maybe Ivanka?) ...
     
    Please, no. Anyone but Ivanka.

    Replies: @Talha, @dfordoom

    , @V. K. Ovelund
    @dfordoom


    Could the dissident right convince anyone that they offer plausible answers, especially on economic issues? Unlikely, but miracles do happen.
     
    You and I have had a few exchanges regarding the dissident right. I have disagreed, but have also listened to what you have said, and have since made some fresh observations in view of your advice.

    Empirically, there appears to be more truth in your overall criticism of the dissident right than I have been willing to admit. Please don't ask me to name names, but you have outlined certain behavior in detail, and to my surprise, not that I look for it, I see too much of it to dismiss.

    That's what you get for being an honest man, @dfordoom. People listen to do—even when it seems that they don't.

    It is regrettable that the nonpseudonymous masters of our media cannot see fit to be as honest. I might listen to them, too.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @RSDB, @Twinkie

  7. There will be blood.

    Oceans of it.

  8. The task at hand now is to position yourself to come through that blow-off top in one piece.

    Twinkie! Are you there Twinkie? Come in Twinkie!

    The upper and upper middle classes consider the lower classes to be barely human.

    This can be viewed as a step forward. There was a time when the lower classes were viewed as deficient humans not entitled to the benefits and rights of being human.

    • Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
  9. The task at hand now is to position yourself to come through that blow-off top in one piece.

    The 3-G’s, AE … Gold, guns, & ground.

    BTW, the game of chess is instructive of the real rules of life: Pawns are for sacrifice, as are lesser nobels when it is necessary, but you always protect your queen, because she is the real power behind an otherwise impotent king.

    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
    @The Alarmist

    Wow, how very matriarchal of you. Are you sure this doesn't more accurately describe your family life, rather than the real world?

    , @Twinkie
    @The Alarmist


    The 3-G’s, AE … Gold, guns, & ground.
     
    Nah. Medicine beats gold in tough times. You are going to want Cipro a lot more than gold coins. And guns are crucial indeed, but so is ammunition and the capacity to make it. Ground? Absolutely vital if you want to eat. The problem is, everybody will want that rich black soil. And you will need a community to defend it.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt, @dfordoom

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @The Alarmist

    It is funny how an ancient game like Chess gives the only female piece powers far surpassing that of every other piece on the board. The only piece she isn't strictly better than is the knight.

  10. @The Alarmist

    The task at hand now is to position yourself to come through that blow-off top in one piece.
     
    The 3-G’s, AE ... Gold, guns, & ground.

    BTW, the game of chess is instructive of the real rules of life: Pawns are for sacrifice, as are lesser nobels when it is necessary, but you always protect your queen, because she is the real power behind an otherwise impotent king.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @Twinkie, @Audacious Epigone

    Wow, how very matriarchal of you. Are you sure this doesn’t more accurately describe your family life, rather than the real world?

  11. @Wyatt

    Like everything else Trump did , it just pointed out the Establishment’s weaknesses to them without actually exploiting the openings, so now the Establishment is reinforcing all their exposed vulnerabilities so that no one more capable can ever break through.
     
    This isn't the end of the logic here. Because the Establishment is scared, they're not as concerned about optics as they were in the past. Biden killing Syrians, caging brown kids, turning DC into his own personal fort and being useless on Corona polarizes people on the left. The wonderful BidenLs twitter has countless highlights of Biden voters regretting their decision or doubling down on defending the dumb Irish bastard and his punjabi diversity hire, insane as that might be.

    The potential for a cascade effect here is massive. The people defending Biden look insane, the continued malfeasance by the Establishment pushes people to the right and if they lose in 2022 and 2024, there's a high chance they'll overplay their hand, cheat too hard to cover up and the house of cards falls apart. The Establishment being as terrified of Trump or a right wing push in America is going to result in draconian policies, accelerated timetables for horrendous things (like a war with Iran) and obvious failures of policy (like a failure to fund Social Security or Medicare). The more dumb things they do to preserve themselves, the more they unify everyone against them.

    Things are going to become more difficult for the hacks in government because they're unrepentant, unintelligent sociopaths that can hear the hunting dogs closing in, imagined or real. Watch and wait for stupid, dumb bullshit to happen because that's the end result of self-preserving morons being in charge.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Realist, @TomSchmidt

    This isn’t the end of the logic here.

    Logic in this country is, for the most part, dead.

    Biden this…Trump that, means nothing the Deep State is in control and has been for decades.

    • Agree: Brian Reilly, RoatanBill
  12. @obwandiyag
    I notice that nobody responds to the lede here. The buried lede really is: "Gender and racial equality are pushed as substitutes for actual equality. They’re intended to distract people from the fact that actual inequality is steadily increasing."

    This is the only lede. The lede of everything, even when it's not mentioned. Class--not race. Class--not race. Class--not race.

    Replies: @neutral, @Not Only Wrathful, @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Race will always matter more than class. Race is what determines the level of civilization that can be achieved, thus it determines the type of class system possible.

    • Agree: martin_2
    • Replies: @Magic Dirt Resident
    @neutral

    Exactly. It's informative how many African countries don't have much inequality because everyone is dirt poor. The class issue is secondary to the racial one.

    , @Charles Pewitt
    @neutral

    Mr Neutral says:

    Race will always matter more than class. Race is what determines the level of civilization that can be achieved, thus it determines the type of class system possible.

    I say:

    Culture And Intelligence Are Downstream from RACE

    The United States is a European Christian nation.

    It doesn’t bother me in the least that the deceased writer Sam Huntington of HARVARD said the United States is a British Protestant settler nation. Huntington might have said state instead of nation, but I’m too lazy to check.

    Race Is The Whole Ball Of Wax!

    Politics and culture are downstream from race.

    Plutocrats are using globalization, financialization and mass immigration to attack and destroy European Christendom.

    https://twitter.com/prisonplanets/status/839595168726675457?s=20

    Tweets from 2015:

    https://twitter.com/CharlesPewitt/status/623184984967389185?s=20

    https://twitter.com/CharlesPewitt/status/621814776361000960?s=20

  13. @Boomthorkell
    @Rosie

    This implies though they didn't have power. Women-in-the-family do indeed have an effect on Men-in-the-family, and society on a macro and micro-level. This is speaking outside the fact they raise, educate, and enculterate the children.

    Replies: @Rosie, @Twinkie

    This implies though they didn’t have power. Women-in-the-family do indeed have an effect on Men-in-the-family, and society on a macro and micro-level. This is speaking outside the fact they raise, educate, and enculterate the children.

    Sorry. We’re not taking the blame for your historical atrocities.

    You don’t get to monopolize institutional power and then disclaim any responsibility for how you use it.

    Nice try, though.

    • Replies: @Not Only Wrathful
    @Rosie


    Sorry. We’re not taking the blame for your historical atrocities.
     
    Nothing he wrote is trying to blame you for anything. Recognise your own (Rosie's) negative energy and take responsibility for it, rather than pretending it originated in his words.

    You don’t get to monopolize institutional power and then disclaim any responsibility for how you use it.
     
    He didn't monopolise anything. He wasn't even there! Furthermore, a sex can't run something as a monopoly. Never, ever, ever have people been more aligned with their sex than the people actually in their lives. Again you're just seeing your own negative energy and pretending that it somehow relates to historical phenomena.

    Unsurprisingly, it will give you no relief.
  14. The ascent was a slow, organic growth that compounded the gains of many centuries.

    Like they say about the stock market, it takes the stairs up and the elevator down.

  15. @neutral
    @obwandiyag

    Race will always matter more than class. Race is what determines the level of civilization that can be achieved, thus it determines the type of class system possible.

    Replies: @Magic Dirt Resident, @Charles Pewitt

    Exactly. It’s informative how many African countries don’t have much inequality because everyone is dirt poor. The class issue is secondary to the racial one.

  16. @Boomthorkell
    @Rosie

    This implies though they didn't have power. Women-in-the-family do indeed have an effect on Men-in-the-family, and society on a macro and micro-level. This is speaking outside the fact they raise, educate, and enculterate the children.

    Replies: @Rosie, @Twinkie

    This implies though they didn’t have power. Women-in-the-family do indeed have an effect on Men-in-the-family, and society on a macro and micro-level. This is speaking outside the fact they raise, educate, and enculterate the children.

    That’s influence, not power.

    The president of the United States can flatten most countries in the world with the greatest collection of military force the world has ever seen. With the threat of this, he can compel these nations to do his bidding (to varying degrees) without the actual use (consumption) of the said force. His advisor who urges this or that course of action, in turn, has influence.

    Force, power, and influence are highly interrelated, but they are not the same thing and have different manners of attainment, use, efficacy, and dissipation.

    • Replies: @Not Only Wrathful
    @Twinkie

    You are blind to power in the feminine. That's your thing.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  17. 1. Remember the “flatten the curve” nonsense, when it was decided that lockdowns and social distancing were necessary to save the healthcare system, so people were not allowed to get their necessary checkups and treatments? It is supposed to be the job of the healthcare system to help the people, not the other way around.

    I really wish, AE, you wouldn’t highlight this kind of superficial bullshit masquerading as some deep structural criticism.

    Patients “not [being] allowed to get their necessary checkups and treatments” is completely and utterly false. Emergent and urgent medical services were never prohibited. Some states curtailed elective procedures for some weeks and months during the early phase of the pandemic. Even those restrictions were soon lifted once more was known about the novel virus.

    However, many patients also voluntarily cancelled their elective procedures out of fear and caution (which is eminently reasonable given that hospitals are where the sick congregate*). A small number of people also declined urgent care for the same reason, despite being urged not to by their physicians. Indeed, it is expected that a considerable number of primary care and elective procedure providers will go out of business due to the pandemic.

    *A very close friend of mine needed a procedure urgently (though not emergently) early last year. He contracted Covid at the hospital, seemed to recover after intensive care, then suddenly his BP and oxygen level crashed, and he passed away.

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Dumbo
    @Twinkie

    There's millions of people who avoided (and some are still avoiding) going to the hospital for other treatments for fear of Covid. Some of them died. The "lockdown" arguably killed much, much more than Covid. But no one is going to make that calculation.


    Even those restrictions were soon lifted once more was known about the novel virus.
     
    It doesn't look like it... It was supposed to be "three weeks" and here we are, still in the same situation... Sorry for your friend, but, a 0.03% mortality does not require the utterly bizarre and authoritarian measures taken at a global level "against Covid"... (If that was the real reason for them, which I doubt - it seems just a good excuse).

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @The Alarmist
    @Twinkie

    The US isn’t the only country in play here: Plenty of people in the UK were denied routine care, like cancer screenings, during the earlier lockdowns, and even now NHS are struggling to keep up with the backlog they created.

  18. @The Alarmist

    The task at hand now is to position yourself to come through that blow-off top in one piece.
     
    The 3-G’s, AE ... Gold, guns, & ground.

    BTW, the game of chess is instructive of the real rules of life: Pawns are for sacrifice, as are lesser nobels when it is necessary, but you always protect your queen, because she is the real power behind an otherwise impotent king.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @Twinkie, @Audacious Epigone

    The 3-G’s, AE … Gold, guns, & ground.

    Nah. Medicine beats gold in tough times. You are going to want Cipro a lot more than gold coins. And guns are crucial indeed, but so is ammunition and the capacity to make it. Ground? Absolutely vital if you want to eat. The problem is, everybody will want that rich black soil. And you will need a community to defend it.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    @Twinkie

    Rich black soil is great. Poor, sandy soil works oK, when combined with someone who knows how to make it fertile. That's what the organic revolution has been about: substituting human intelligence for brute-force chemical fertilizers and pesticides.

    Those hundreds of feet of loess in Iowa are gradually being strip mined by industrial agriculture to make commodity corn. Apres nous, le famine, I guess.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Twinkie

    , @dfordoom
    @Twinkie


    Nah. Medicine beats gold in tough times. You are going to want Cipro a lot more than gold coins.
     
    Yes, I agree with that.
  19. @Wyatt

    Like everything else Trump did , it just pointed out the Establishment’s weaknesses to them without actually exploiting the openings, so now the Establishment is reinforcing all their exposed vulnerabilities so that no one more capable can ever break through.
     
    This isn't the end of the logic here. Because the Establishment is scared, they're not as concerned about optics as they were in the past. Biden killing Syrians, caging brown kids, turning DC into his own personal fort and being useless on Corona polarizes people on the left. The wonderful BidenLs twitter has countless highlights of Biden voters regretting their decision or doubling down on defending the dumb Irish bastard and his punjabi diversity hire, insane as that might be.

    The potential for a cascade effect here is massive. The people defending Biden look insane, the continued malfeasance by the Establishment pushes people to the right and if they lose in 2022 and 2024, there's a high chance they'll overplay their hand, cheat too hard to cover up and the house of cards falls apart. The Establishment being as terrified of Trump or a right wing push in America is going to result in draconian policies, accelerated timetables for horrendous things (like a war with Iran) and obvious failures of policy (like a failure to fund Social Security or Medicare). The more dumb things they do to preserve themselves, the more they unify everyone against them.

    Things are going to become more difficult for the hacks in government because they're unrepentant, unintelligent sociopaths that can hear the hunting dogs closing in, imagined or real. Watch and wait for stupid, dumb bullshit to happen because that's the end result of self-preserving morons being in charge.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Realist, @TomSchmidt

    Actual debt forgiveness wipes out the claim the banking class has on the rest of us. That’s the Achilles heel of the elite. Debt forgiveness appears to be a leftist or Marxist policy. But since the deep state is in neoliberal hands, and a debt forgiveness strips the backers of the DS of wealth and hopefully power, debt forgiveness is in effect a rightist policy.

    It doesn’t hurt that the chief backer of the 2005 bankruptcy reform law that clamped down tighter on debtors was the Senator from MBNA, headquartered in Delaware.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @TomSchmidt

    It is hard to favor debt forgiveness, because forgiveness dishonors the diligent, the honest, the austere and the frugal, who tend to pay off their debts. However, ...


    Actual debt forgiveness wipes out the claim the banking class has on the rest of us. That’s the Achilles heel of the elite. Debt forgiveness appears to be a leftist or Marxist policy. But since the deep state is in neoliberal hands, and a debt forgiveness strips the backers of the DS of wealth and hopefully power, debt forgiveness is in effect a rightist policy.
     
    If our élites do not wish right-of-center citizens like me to flip to the other side, then they need to give us a decent answer to the runaway enrichment of the billionaire class; because if they don't, then we'll see who has more real power: the billionaires? or the vast number of citizens who increasingly resent the billionaires?

    I think that it's an unwise risk for the billionaires to run. So do some billionaires, like Warren Buffett; but it's up to the rest of the billionaires as to whether they'll run the risk.

    If they do, I think they'll lose.

    If the proverbial rising tide does not lift all boats, the billionaires risk having holes punched in the hulls of their yachts.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt, @TomSchmidt

  20. @Twinkie
    @The Alarmist


    The 3-G’s, AE … Gold, guns, & ground.
     
    Nah. Medicine beats gold in tough times. You are going to want Cipro a lot more than gold coins. And guns are crucial indeed, but so is ammunition and the capacity to make it. Ground? Absolutely vital if you want to eat. The problem is, everybody will want that rich black soil. And you will need a community to defend it.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt, @dfordoom

    Rich black soil is great. Poor, sandy soil works oK, when combined with someone who knows how to make it fertile. That’s what the organic revolution has been about: substituting human intelligence for brute-force chemical fertilizers and pesticides.

    Those hundreds of feet of loess in Iowa are gradually being strip mined by industrial agriculture to make commodity corn. Apres nous, le famine, I guess.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @TomSchmidt

    One of the paradoxes of Russia is despite having so much more space, relatively little land has good soil quality compared to Western Europe, the big exception being the famed "black earth" of Ukraine which the Nazis coveted so intensely. Russia's got tons of natural resources, but little of that, and much of the former in inhospitable territory.

    There's a surprising amount in the history of Russian social institutions and economic planning-communal mirs-that can be traced back to this paradox.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

    , @Twinkie
    @TomSchmidt


    Poor, sandy soil works oK, when combined with someone who knows how to make it fertile.
     
    Well, if you put enough effort into any kind of soil, you can make things grow, but in situations with limited inputs, good soil is always a good start and will be able to support much more caloric intake for people living on it.

    Those hundreds of feet of loess in Iowa are gradually being strip mined by industrial agriculture to make commodity corn.
     
    And soybeans.

    Then again, about half of Iowa used to be semi-forested prairie before the area was turned into farmland, so...

    I live in a county that used to be one of the most productive agriculturally in America. Now, due to about a hundred years of poor soil management, it is nothing but clay around here.
  21. @Rosie
    @Boomthorkell


    This implies though they didn’t have power. Women-in-the-family do indeed have an effect on Men-in-the-family, and society on a macro and micro-level. This is speaking outside the fact they raise, educate, and enculterate the children.
     
    Sorry. We're not taking the blame for your historical atrocities.

    You don’t get to monopolize institutional power and then disclaim any responsibility for how you use it.

    Nice try, though.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful

    Sorry. We’re not taking the blame for your historical atrocities.

    Nothing he wrote is trying to blame you for anything. Recognise your own (Rosie’s) negative energy and take responsibility for it, rather than pretending it originated in his words.

    You don’t get to monopolize institutional power and then disclaim any responsibility for how you use it.

    He didn’t monopolise anything. He wasn’t even there! Furthermore, a sex can’t run something as a monopoly. Never, ever, ever have people been more aligned with their sex than the people actually in their lives. Again you’re just seeing your own negative energy and pretending that it somehow relates to historical phenomena.

    Unsurprisingly, it will give you no relief.

  22. The State of the Union will be a heavily militarized event.

    The State of the Union address has been cancelled: (1)

    Embarrassing excuse offered for Biden’s vanishing State of the Union Address

    All of a sudden, here it is the end of February, and there is no State of the Union (SOTU) address scheduled for President Biden. That’s odd because last month, Biden promised what sounds exactly like a SOTU:

    “Next month, in my first appearance before a joint session of Congress, I will lay out my ‘Build Back Better’ recovery plan,” he said. “It will make historic investments in infrastructure, manufacturing, innovation, and research and development in clean energy.”

    The lickspittle media are rushing in with “fact checks” to assure the nation that there is no requirement or deadline for a SOTU speech. But it is awkward, especially considering the rising doubts about Biden’s mental and physical state. Nick Arama of RedState expressed the view of many:

    Let’s face it. There’s a big problem with having Joe try to deliver a ninety-minute speech at 9:00 p.m. at night without a teleprompter in front of Congress. He has trouble just making it through basic remarks before media for a few minutes, much less a speech of that length. They must be wracking their brains to figure out how they’re going to pull it off.

    As we previously reported, Biden hasn’t even had a solo press conference with the media yet. By this time, both Barack Obama and Donald Trump had done solo pressers.

    The illegitimate Harris/Biden Blue Coup is quite vulnerable. GOP members of the House would no doubt shout questions at the mentally fragile Biden. Imagine how bad it would look if Biden went off script and started challenging Republicans to fist fights after school.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://ninetymilesfromtyranny.blogspot.com/2021/02/embarrassing-excuse-offered-for-bidens.html

    [MORE]

  23. @obwandiyag
    I notice that nobody responds to the lede here. The buried lede really is: "Gender and racial equality are pushed as substitutes for actual equality. They’re intended to distract people from the fact that actual inequality is steadily increasing."

    This is the only lede. The lede of everything, even when it's not mentioned. Class--not race. Class--not race. Class--not race.

    Replies: @neutral, @Not Only Wrathful, @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Both “race” and “class” often serve as useful props in the psychodramas people play in their own heads. They don’t have to, they can have real world effects, but that’s how they function most of the time.

    Both race and class have some explanatory power. Those who believe they have all or no explanatory power are being sincere, but they are also extremely confused. They hyperfocus on those issues in the same way an anorexic might hyperfocus on their thigh gap.

  24. @Twinkie
    @Boomthorkell


    This implies though they didn’t have power. Women-in-the-family do indeed have an effect on Men-in-the-family, and society on a macro and micro-level. This is speaking outside the fact they raise, educate, and enculterate the children.
     
    That’s influence, not power.

    The president of the United States can flatten most countries in the world with the greatest collection of military force the world has ever seen. With the threat of this, he can compel these nations to do his bidding (to varying degrees) without the actual use (consumption) of the said force. His advisor who urges this or that course of action, in turn, has influence.

    Force, power, and influence are highly interrelated, but they are not the same thing and have different manners of attainment, use, efficacy, and dissipation.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful

    You are blind to power in the feminine. That’s your thing.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Not Only Wrathful


    You are blind to power in the feminine. That’s your thing.
     
    You clearly don't understand the less than subtle distinctions I made.

    Force is almost exclusively the domain of men. Power is as well, but more women have it. Meanwhile, many women have influence (over their husbands, sons, etc.).

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful

  25. >The left used to recoil in horror at this sort of militarism.

    Take a good, long look at how the early Soviets responded to Central Asian proto-Islamist types who tried to break away from Russian colonial control in the early 1920s before you assert the Old Left always opposed militarism.

    >The left used to recoil in horror at this sort of militarism.

    Armed fantasy as policy coming home to roost from Afghanistan and Co. would be more amusing if we didn’t have people fantasizing about domestic COIN.

    You know how Trump was viewed as a crypto-fascist despite his policies largely being warmed over Bushism with the occasional nativist sop? In some ways, it is tempting to draw a parallel to Biden trying to ape the Obama years, and in some ways, that’s accurate (Janet Yellen at the Fed). But cultural control + the pandemic mean that instead of this being an end result of inhibition, this is the starting point for more radical stuff.

  26. @TomSchmidt
    @Twinkie

    Rich black soil is great. Poor, sandy soil works oK, when combined with someone who knows how to make it fertile. That's what the organic revolution has been about: substituting human intelligence for brute-force chemical fertilizers and pesticides.

    Those hundreds of feet of loess in Iowa are gradually being strip mined by industrial agriculture to make commodity corn. Apres nous, le famine, I guess.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Twinkie

    One of the paradoxes of Russia is despite having so much more space, relatively little land has good soil quality compared to Western Europe, the big exception being the famed “black earth” of Ukraine which the Nazis coveted so intensely. Russia’s got tons of natural resources, but little of that, and much of the former in inhospitable territory.

    There’s a surprising amount in the history of Russian social institutions and economic planning-communal mirs-that can be traced back to this paradox.

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @nebulafox


    and much of the former in inhospitable territory.
     
    Climate arguably more important than soil composition in Russian case.


    https://i.redd.it/buee0q7qmuz41.jpg

    Replies: @TomSchmidt

  27. Mr. Epigone says:

    Not unrelatedly, Intelligent Dasein on how if not outright hated by the patricians, the plebes are increasingly viewed as nothing more than grist for the mill to stave off the end of the feast for as long as they can:

    I say:

    I’m a dumb ass plebian and I say fat ass Canadian bastard Teddy Cruz is a fake phony fraud and Teddy “Goldman Sachs Hubby” Cruz is getting fat boy hips like a sonofabitch who can’t push himself away from the table that’s piled high with pulled pork and Teddy Cruz is sipping drinks down in Mexico and Teddy Cruz don’t feel the need to move down in Mexico and his late stage imperial decadence and lethargy is a big part of the reason why Teddy Cruz is a fat phucking twat who tries to fraudulently create a jawline lost to the overconsumption of pulled pork by growing a fat boy Orson Welles beard.

    Josh Hawley is a fraud too but he has the brains to go for the lean and hungry look with a clean cut hair style and Hawley is a horseshit spouter too but at least us peasants have some entertaining action watching the politician whores such as Teddy Cruz and Josh Hawley trying to act like leaders when they are rancid donor-controlled three dollar whores.

    I hereby challenge Trump and Donny Trump Junior and Marco Rubio and Lindsey Graham and Teddy Cruz and Josh Hawley to a debate on mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration and demography and American national identity and multiculturalism and foreign policy and trade policy and the corporate media and globalization and financialization and anti-White animosity and anti-Christian animosity from the hostile elements in the JEW/WASP ruling class of the American Empire.

  28. @neutral
    @obwandiyag

    Race will always matter more than class. Race is what determines the level of civilization that can be achieved, thus it determines the type of class system possible.

    Replies: @Magic Dirt Resident, @Charles Pewitt

    Mr Neutral says:

    Race will always matter more than class. Race is what determines the level of civilization that can be achieved, thus it determines the type of class system possible.

    I say:

    Culture And Intelligence Are Downstream from RACE

    The United States is a European Christian nation.

    It doesn’t bother me in the least that the deceased writer Sam Huntington of HARVARD said the United States is a British Protestant settler nation. Huntington might have said state instead of nation, but I’m too lazy to check.

    Race Is The Whole Ball Of Wax!

    Politics and culture are downstream from race.

    Plutocrats are using globalization, financialization and mass immigration to attack and destroy European Christendom.

    Tweets from 2015:

  29. Anon[273] • Disclaimer says:

    Its time to leave America young people. This will be a misery factory in 20 years. Go help build up a small Eastern European county, a Nordic Country, Argentina, Chile, Peru, Russia, Australia. This CultMarx stuff will eventually make America a pariah just like the Soviet Union once was. Its based on envy and revenge.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
    @Anon

    The whole planet will be a 'misery factory' in twenty years thanks to ecological collapse.

  30. Does this proposition remain true?

    United States

    • Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
    • Replies: @Mark G.
    @Blinky Bill

    Blinky Bill, what you provided shows declining income inequality in the U.S. 1900 to the seventies and then a reversal. There was more acceptance of high levels of inequality in the 19th century since life was improving for everyone. A good measure of whether increasing wealth is improving life for the average person is average life expectancy. U.S. life expectancy in 1900 was in the top five in the world, a sign the increasing wealth was of benefit even to the average person.

    The current high levels of income inequality in the U.S. has occurred with stagnant life expectancy, compared to the rest of the world. The U.S. has fallen behind a number of other countries and dropped out of the top twenty five worldwide. The last decade saw three years of decreasing U.S. life expectancy with a fourth likely due to the poor handling of an epidemic.

    This situation, increasing income inequality combined with life getting worse for most people, will lead to political instability. Elites that block reform historically end up losing everything. The wealthy French aristocrats blocked Turgot's reforms in 18th century France with devastating results for them later on. Our elites should hold on through the Biden and Pelosi era but things may be different twenty years from now when we might have something like a President AOC and Speaker of the House Ilhan Omar.

  31. @nebulafox
    @TomSchmidt

    One of the paradoxes of Russia is despite having so much more space, relatively little land has good soil quality compared to Western Europe, the big exception being the famed "black earth" of Ukraine which the Nazis coveted so intensely. Russia's got tons of natural resources, but little of that, and much of the former in inhospitable territory.

    There's a surprising amount in the history of Russian social institutions and economic planning-communal mirs-that can be traced back to this paradox.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

    and much of the former in inhospitable territory.

    Climate arguably more important than soil composition in Russian case.

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    @Blinky Bill

    Fascinating map. It looks like the bottom edge of the last glaciation left behind those rich soils. Just guessing.

    If they're frozen in permafrost, they're useless for crops, however.

  32. @dfordoom
    @Wyatt


    The potential for a cascade effect here is massive. The people defending Biden look insane, the continued malfeasance by the Establishment pushes people to the right
     
    It won't necessarily push people to the Right. It will push people towards any group or party or faction that appears to have plausible answers. Since the GOPe offers no plausible answers to anything they're obviously not likely to benefit from any cascade effect. Whether the Trumpists will benefit depends on how viable a 78-year-old Donald Trump will be as a candidate in 2014, and on whether they can find a viable alternative candidate (maybe Ivanka?) if the Donald is too feeble.

    Could the dissident right convince anyone that they offer plausible answers, especially on economic issues? Unlikely, but miracles do happen.

    The old school Economic Left would be in an excellent position to benefit, except that the old school Economic Left scarcely exists any more. But a younger version of Bernie Sanders might be able to led a revival. The communists would be in an excellent position to benefit as well, except that they don't exist at all any more.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @V. K. Ovelund

    … whether they can find a viable alternative candidate (maybe Ivanka?) …

    Please, no. Anyone but Ivanka.

    • Replies: @Talha
    @V. K. Ovelund

    Ivanka vs Chelsea...2030?

    Peace.

    https://media.tenor.com/images/b038bac1e9af8f1aef9740b07d5c92ea/tenor.gif

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    , @dfordoom
    @V. K. Ovelund



    … whether they can find a viable alternative candidate (maybe Ivanka?) …
     
    Please, no. Anyone but Ivanka.
     
    I think the MAGA Hat Brigade would go for her. If The Donald is out of the running they'll want a Trump to unite behind. Ivanka is the beloved leader's beloved daughter. And she'd be the right age (43) to be presented as a young dynamic high-energy candidate.

    And Ivanka might be more acceptable to the GOPe.

    I'm not saying I want Ivanka, but I wouldn't be altogether surprised if she became the Trumpist candidate.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  33. @Twinkie

    1. Remember the “flatten the curve” nonsense, when it was decided that lockdowns and social distancing were necessary to save the healthcare system, so people were not allowed to get their necessary checkups and treatments? It is supposed to be the job of the healthcare system to help the people, not the other way around.
     
    I really wish, AE, you wouldn’t highlight this kind of superficial bullshit masquerading as some deep structural criticism.

    Patients “not [being] allowed to get their necessary checkups and treatments” is completely and utterly false. Emergent and urgent medical services were never prohibited. Some states curtailed elective procedures for some weeks and months during the early phase of the pandemic. Even those restrictions were soon lifted once more was known about the novel virus.

    However, many patients also voluntarily cancelled their elective procedures out of fear and caution (which is eminently reasonable given that hospitals are where the sick congregate*). A small number of people also declined urgent care for the same reason, despite being urged not to by their physicians. Indeed, it is expected that a considerable number of primary care and elective procedure providers will go out of business due to the pandemic.

    *A very close friend of mine needed a procedure urgently (though not emergently) early last year. He contracted Covid at the hospital, seemed to recover after intensive care, then suddenly his BP and oxygen level crashed, and he passed away.

    Replies: @Dumbo, @The Alarmist

    There’s millions of people who avoided (and some are still avoiding) going to the hospital for other treatments for fear of Covid. Some of them died. The “lockdown” arguably killed much, much more than Covid. But no one is going to make that calculation.

    Even those restrictions were soon lifted once more was known about the novel virus.

    It doesn’t look like it… It was supposed to be “three weeks” and here we are, still in the same situation… Sorry for your friend, but, a 0.03% mortality does not require the utterly bizarre and authoritarian measures taken at a global level “against Covid”… (If that was the real reason for them, which I doubt – it seems just a good excuse).

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Dumbo


    The “lockdown” arguably killed much, much more than Covid.
     
    Don't make assertions without evidence. There are lots of anti-lockdown people in the "conservative" media, etc. No one has demonstrated any such evidence.

    Although I don't doubt that some deaths were caused by "the lockdown" (whatever that means, as limitations varied by region), restrictions also likely reduced mortality (e.g. fewer automobile collisions, outdoor accidents, etc.).


    It doesn’t look like it… It was supposed to be “three weeks” and here we are, still in the same situation…
     
    In my state, all medical services providers, including those that offer elective procedures, are now allowed to open (provided they follow safety guidelines) and have been since last fall. As I wrote before, no emergent and urgent medical services were curtailed and the elective services providers were temporarily closed for a few weeks last spring-summer. Most states are similar.

    Replies: @Dumbo

  34. @TomSchmidt
    @Wyatt

    Actual debt forgiveness wipes out the claim the banking class has on the rest of us. That's the Achilles heel of the elite. Debt forgiveness appears to be a leftist or Marxist policy. But since the deep state is in neoliberal hands, and a debt forgiveness strips the backers of the DS of wealth and hopefully power, debt forgiveness is in effect a rightist policy.

    It doesn't hurt that the chief backer of the 2005 bankruptcy reform law that clamped down tighter on debtors was the Senator from MBNA, headquartered in Delaware.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

    It is hard to favor debt forgiveness, because forgiveness dishonors the diligent, the honest, the austere and the frugal, who tend to pay off their debts. However, …

    Actual debt forgiveness wipes out the claim the banking class has on the rest of us. That’s the Achilles heel of the elite. Debt forgiveness appears to be a leftist or Marxist policy. But since the deep state is in neoliberal hands, and a debt forgiveness strips the backers of the DS of wealth and hopefully power, debt forgiveness is in effect a rightist policy.

    If our élites do not wish right-of-center citizens like me to flip to the other side, then they need to give us a decent answer to the runaway enrichment of the billionaire class; because if they don’t, then we’ll see who has more real power: the billionaires? or the vast number of citizens who increasingly resent the billionaires?

    I think that it’s an unwise risk for the billionaires to run. So do some billionaires, like Warren Buffett; but it’s up to the rest of the billionaires as to whether they’ll run the risk.

    If they do, I think they’ll lose.

    If the proverbial rising tide does not lift all boats, the billionaires risk having holes punched in the hulls of their yachts.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    @V. K. Ovelund

    It is hard to favor debt forgiveness, because forgiveness dishonors the diligent, the honest, the austere and the frugal, who tend to pay off their debts.

    Yes, this is a large stumbling block. David Graeber's book Debt was instrumental for me here. I've paid off my own college debts, and a lot of others. That process has been rewarding on its own, regardless of the lack of interest paid out.

    Of course, even after a debt forgiveness, there would remain a credit rating for people forgiven. It would make responsible types more likely to get more credit, and spendthrifts less likely, unless they again make themselves chattels to lenders.

    But it would so thoroughly destroy the power and wealth of the banking class that it would take YEARS before they were again in position to so thoroughly own the political system. Breathing room, as it were. And maybe some of the forgiven would learn, rather than, like a dog to his vomit, return to their folly.

    , @TomSchmidt
    @V. K. Ovelund

    To blatantly copy another comment I made in the same vein:

    I get it. I had the exact attitude.

    The major change in my approach was reading David Graeber’s book Debt. Graeber was a lefty, no doubt, but he knew his history and the monetary systems derived on interest and money. He makes the point that they have ALL blown apart, without exception, for the reason that interest grows money exponentially, money being a claim on real assets, and nothing grows exponentially for long. The actual structure that appears exponential is the S-curve, exponential at the start, linear in the middle, and logarithmic at the end.

    We have been able to tolerate the increasing monetary claim on the real world since about 1700 because we were able to experience the exponential part of first coal production, and later oil production. Nowadays, we are still in the late exponential growth part of transistor production via Moore’s law. But all these exponential processes have either gone logarithmic, or reversed; the USA produces 2MM barrels fewer of oil per day this year than last, and it’s likely to keep dropping.

    Ancient rulers regularly declared a jubilee, restoring land and freedom to tenant farmers and slaves, because the security of the state was dependent on those people to serve as cannon fodder. I wonder if that still holds, with drone warriors, and more importantly with the financial backers being more important to the politicians than the people who vote for them. The debt will continue to immiserate the majority of people, and they’ll be happy to throw their support to anyone who eliminates it.

    One reason Islam did so well in the areas of non-Greek settlement was the simple promise that Islam would not enforce usurious debt contracts, so becoming a Muslim led to a material improvement. That sort of tipping point is near in the West now, and if a Western populist isn’t smart enough to do it, the Muslims are.

  35. @Blinky Bill
    @nebulafox


    and much of the former in inhospitable territory.
     
    Climate arguably more important than soil composition in Russian case.


    https://i.redd.it/buee0q7qmuz41.jpg

    Replies: @TomSchmidt

    Fascinating map. It looks like the bottom edge of the last glaciation left behind those rich soils. Just guessing.

    If they’re frozen in permafrost, they’re useless for crops, however.

  36. @V. K. Ovelund
    @TomSchmidt

    It is hard to favor debt forgiveness, because forgiveness dishonors the diligent, the honest, the austere and the frugal, who tend to pay off their debts. However, ...


    Actual debt forgiveness wipes out the claim the banking class has on the rest of us. That’s the Achilles heel of the elite. Debt forgiveness appears to be a leftist or Marxist policy. But since the deep state is in neoliberal hands, and a debt forgiveness strips the backers of the DS of wealth and hopefully power, debt forgiveness is in effect a rightist policy.
     
    If our élites do not wish right-of-center citizens like me to flip to the other side, then they need to give us a decent answer to the runaway enrichment of the billionaire class; because if they don't, then we'll see who has more real power: the billionaires? or the vast number of citizens who increasingly resent the billionaires?

    I think that it's an unwise risk for the billionaires to run. So do some billionaires, like Warren Buffett; but it's up to the rest of the billionaires as to whether they'll run the risk.

    If they do, I think they'll lose.

    If the proverbial rising tide does not lift all boats, the billionaires risk having holes punched in the hulls of their yachts.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt, @TomSchmidt

    It is hard to favor debt forgiveness, because forgiveness dishonors the diligent, the honest, the austere and the frugal, who tend to pay off their debts.

    Yes, this is a large stumbling block. David Graeber’s book Debt was instrumental for me here. I’ve paid off my own college debts, and a lot of others. That process has been rewarding on its own, regardless of the lack of interest paid out.

    Of course, even after a debt forgiveness, there would remain a credit rating for people forgiven. It would make responsible types more likely to get more credit, and spendthrifts less likely, unless they again make themselves chattels to lenders.

    But it would so thoroughly destroy the power and wealth of the banking class that it would take YEARS before they were again in position to so thoroughly own the political system. Breathing room, as it were. And maybe some of the forgiven would learn, rather than, like a dog to his vomit, return to their folly.

  37. @V. K. Ovelund
    @TomSchmidt

    It is hard to favor debt forgiveness, because forgiveness dishonors the diligent, the honest, the austere and the frugal, who tend to pay off their debts. However, ...


    Actual debt forgiveness wipes out the claim the banking class has on the rest of us. That’s the Achilles heel of the elite. Debt forgiveness appears to be a leftist or Marxist policy. But since the deep state is in neoliberal hands, and a debt forgiveness strips the backers of the DS of wealth and hopefully power, debt forgiveness is in effect a rightist policy.
     
    If our élites do not wish right-of-center citizens like me to flip to the other side, then they need to give us a decent answer to the runaway enrichment of the billionaire class; because if they don't, then we'll see who has more real power: the billionaires? or the vast number of citizens who increasingly resent the billionaires?

    I think that it's an unwise risk for the billionaires to run. So do some billionaires, like Warren Buffett; but it's up to the rest of the billionaires as to whether they'll run the risk.

    If they do, I think they'll lose.

    If the proverbial rising tide does not lift all boats, the billionaires risk having holes punched in the hulls of their yachts.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt, @TomSchmidt

    To blatantly copy another comment I made in the same vein:

    I get it. I had the exact attitude.

    The major change in my approach was reading David Graeber’s book Debt. Graeber was a lefty, no doubt, but he knew his history and the monetary systems derived on interest and money. He makes the point that they have ALL blown apart, without exception, for the reason that interest grows money exponentially, money being a claim on real assets, and nothing grows exponentially for long. The actual structure that appears exponential is the S-curve, exponential at the start, linear in the middle, and logarithmic at the end.

    We have been able to tolerate the increasing monetary claim on the real world since about 1700 because we were able to experience the exponential part of first coal production, and later oil production. Nowadays, we are still in the late exponential growth part of transistor production via Moore’s law. But all these exponential processes have either gone logarithmic, or reversed; the USA produces 2MM barrels fewer of oil per day this year than last, and it’s likely to keep dropping.

    Ancient rulers regularly declared a jubilee, restoring land and freedom to tenant farmers and slaves, because the security of the state was dependent on those people to serve as cannon fodder. I wonder if that still holds, with drone warriors, and more importantly with the financial backers being more important to the politicians than the people who vote for them. The debt will continue to immiserate the majority of people, and they’ll be happy to throw their support to anyone who eliminates it.

    One reason Islam did so well in the areas of non-Greek settlement was the simple promise that Islam would not enforce usurious debt contracts, so becoming a Muslim led to a material improvement. That sort of tipping point is near in the West now, and if a Western populist isn’t smart enough to do it, the Muslims are.

  38. The Capitol Gang violated one of Machiavelli’s rules: never do an enemy a small injury.

  39. Boomer generation is the story of the ant and grasshopper.

    However one may feel about Jews, they were ants who hard to gain more power, whereas so many white gentile boomers were like grasshoppers and took it easy as if California Sun will always shine on them.

    Jewish boomer task and white boomer bask.

  40. @Blinky Bill
    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRrFfTeQ__KQM0S1Jx2_26_nmP3ZrqaItbMiw&usqp.jpg


    Does this proposition remain true?

    United States

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSkbsbs_NkZgwBTQ4w5DSpy4NAVl8coZ6yb_g&usqp.jpg

    Replies: @Mark G.

    Blinky Bill, what you provided shows declining income inequality in the U.S. 1900 to the seventies and then a reversal. There was more acceptance of high levels of inequality in the 19th century since life was improving for everyone. A good measure of whether increasing wealth is improving life for the average person is average life expectancy. U.S. life expectancy in 1900 was in the top five in the world, a sign the increasing wealth was of benefit even to the average person.

    The current high levels of income inequality in the U.S. has occurred with stagnant life expectancy, compared to the rest of the world. The U.S. has fallen behind a number of other countries and dropped out of the top twenty five worldwide. The last decade saw three years of decreasing U.S. life expectancy with a fourth likely due to the poor handling of an epidemic.

    This situation, increasing income inequality combined with life getting worse for most people, will lead to political instability. Elites that block reform historically end up losing everything. The wealthy French aristocrats blocked Turgot’s reforms in 18th century France with devastating results for them later on. Our elites should hold on through the Biden and Pelosi era but things may be different twenty years from now when we might have something like a President AOC and Speaker of the House Ilhan Omar.

    • Thanks: Blinky Bill
  41. Point Three echoes Ugo Bardi’s ‘Seneca’s Cliff’. Seneca apparently commented that progress was slow and hard-won, but collapse comes quickly and vertiginously. Or as Hemingway said of bankruptcy, in The Sun Also Rises -‘Gradually, and then suddenly’. The rapid phase is well advanced.

  42. @obwandiyag
    I notice that nobody responds to the lede here. The buried lede really is: "Gender and racial equality are pushed as substitutes for actual equality. They’re intended to distract people from the fact that actual inequality is steadily increasing."

    This is the only lede. The lede of everything, even when it's not mentioned. Class--not race. Class--not race. Class--not race.

    Replies: @neutral, @Not Only Wrathful, @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Exactly!!!All the Divide and Rule tactics, the Woke lunacy, BLM, transgender insanity etc, are diversions designed to stop the ‘useless classes’, now c.90% of the populace, from identifying their true enemy. Not one another but the predatory, blood-sucking, parasite classes.

  43. @Anon
    Its time to leave America young people. This will be a misery factory in 20 years. Go help build up a small Eastern European county, a Nordic Country, Argentina, Chile, Peru, Russia, Australia. This CultMarx stuff will eventually make America a pariah just like the Soviet Union once was. Its based on envy and revenge.

    Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain

    The whole planet will be a ‘misery factory’ in twenty years thanks to ecological collapse.

  44. @TomSchmidt
    @Twinkie

    Rich black soil is great. Poor, sandy soil works oK, when combined with someone who knows how to make it fertile. That's what the organic revolution has been about: substituting human intelligence for brute-force chemical fertilizers and pesticides.

    Those hundreds of feet of loess in Iowa are gradually being strip mined by industrial agriculture to make commodity corn. Apres nous, le famine, I guess.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Twinkie

    Poor, sandy soil works oK, when combined with someone who knows how to make it fertile.

    Well, if you put enough effort into any kind of soil, you can make things grow, but in situations with limited inputs, good soil is always a good start and will be able to support much more caloric intake for people living on it.

    Those hundreds of feet of loess in Iowa are gradually being strip mined by industrial agriculture to make commodity corn.

    And soybeans.

    Then again, about half of Iowa used to be semi-forested prairie before the area was turned into farmland, so…

    I live in a county that used to be one of the most productive agriculturally in America. Now, due to about a hundred years of poor soil management, it is nothing but clay around here.

  45. @Dumbo
    @Twinkie

    There's millions of people who avoided (and some are still avoiding) going to the hospital for other treatments for fear of Covid. Some of them died. The "lockdown" arguably killed much, much more than Covid. But no one is going to make that calculation.


    Even those restrictions were soon lifted once more was known about the novel virus.
     
    It doesn't look like it... It was supposed to be "three weeks" and here we are, still in the same situation... Sorry for your friend, but, a 0.03% mortality does not require the utterly bizarre and authoritarian measures taken at a global level "against Covid"... (If that was the real reason for them, which I doubt - it seems just a good excuse).

    Replies: @Twinkie

    The “lockdown” arguably killed much, much more than Covid.

    Don’t make assertions without evidence. There are lots of anti-lockdown people in the “conservative” media, etc. No one has demonstrated any such evidence.

    Although I don’t doubt that some deaths were caused by “the lockdown” (whatever that means, as limitations varied by region), restrictions also likely reduced mortality (e.g. fewer automobile collisions, outdoor accidents, etc.).

    It doesn’t look like it… It was supposed to be “three weeks” and here we are, still in the same situation…

    In my state, all medical services providers, including those that offer elective procedures, are now allowed to open (provided they follow safety guidelines) and have been since last fall. As I wrote before, no emergent and urgent medical services were curtailed and the elective services providers were temporarily closed for a few weeks last spring-summer. Most states are similar.

    • Replies: @Dumbo
    @Twinkie

    The question is not that medical services are allowed to open. It is that many people, especially elderly people, are or have been avoiding going to the hospital for fear of catching Covid there... And understandably, as one of the main places where people seem to catch Covid is the hospital...

    But then they die from other reasons... I know more than one case like that...


    restrictions also likely reduced mortality (e.g. fewer automobile collisions, outdoor accidents, etc.).
     
    Maybe. We'll never know for sure. Doesn't seem in any case a good reason, unless you're suggesting that governments establish a yearly 3-month-lockdown to reduce automobile accidents...

    Replies: @Twinkie

  46. @Not Only Wrathful
    @Twinkie

    You are blind to power in the feminine. That's your thing.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    You are blind to power in the feminine. That’s your thing.

    You clearly don’t understand the less than subtle distinctions I made.

    Force is almost exclusively the domain of men. Power is as well, but more women have it. Meanwhile, many women have influence (over their husbands, sons, etc.).

    • Replies: @Not Only Wrathful
    @Twinkie

    Distinction without a difference. Perhaps introspect and explore this subject without knee-jerk rationalizing it away?

    Or if you want to understand how your logic is a badly-wrought shield in this instance, perhaps try to rationalize the other side of the argument and see how easy that is? (Very)

    Then ask what you're shielding yourself against...

    Replies: @Twinkie

  47. @Twinkie
    @Dumbo


    The “lockdown” arguably killed much, much more than Covid.
     
    Don't make assertions without evidence. There are lots of anti-lockdown people in the "conservative" media, etc. No one has demonstrated any such evidence.

    Although I don't doubt that some deaths were caused by "the lockdown" (whatever that means, as limitations varied by region), restrictions also likely reduced mortality (e.g. fewer automobile collisions, outdoor accidents, etc.).


    It doesn’t look like it… It was supposed to be “three weeks” and here we are, still in the same situation…
     
    In my state, all medical services providers, including those that offer elective procedures, are now allowed to open (provided they follow safety guidelines) and have been since last fall. As I wrote before, no emergent and urgent medical services were curtailed and the elective services providers were temporarily closed for a few weeks last spring-summer. Most states are similar.

    Replies: @Dumbo

    The question is not that medical services are allowed to open. It is that many people, especially elderly people, are or have been avoiding going to the hospital for fear of catching Covid there… And understandably, as one of the main places where people seem to catch Covid is the hospital…

    But then they die from other reasons… I know more than one case like that…

    restrictions also likely reduced mortality (e.g. fewer automobile collisions, outdoor accidents, etc.).

    Maybe. We’ll never know for sure. Doesn’t seem in any case a good reason, unless you’re suggesting that governments establish a yearly 3-month-lockdown to reduce automobile accidents…

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Dumbo


    The question is not that medical services are allowed to open.
     
    I was addressing another commenter’s unwarranted assertion that was highlighted. Don’t hijack the argument (for the record, I was not opining on “the lockdown,” or whatever Covid-induced restrictions).

    We’ll never know for sure.
     
    We can figure things out by looking at excess mortality and other statistical information.

    unless you’re suggesting that governments establish a yearly 3-month-lockdown to reduce automobile accidents…
     
    Yeah, let’s confine everyone to their homes and cut automobile fatality to zero.

    Don’t be ridiculous and don’t use straw man.

    Replies: @Mark G.

  48. @Twinkie
    @Not Only Wrathful


    You are blind to power in the feminine. That’s your thing.
     
    You clearly don't understand the less than subtle distinctions I made.

    Force is almost exclusively the domain of men. Power is as well, but more women have it. Meanwhile, many women have influence (over their husbands, sons, etc.).

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful

    Distinction without a difference. Perhaps introspect and explore this subject without knee-jerk rationalizing it away?

    Or if you want to understand how your logic is a badly-wrought shield in this instance, perhaps try to rationalize the other side of the argument and see how easy that is? (Very)

    Then ask what you’re shielding yourself against…

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Not Only Wrathful


    Distinction without a difference.
     
    There are substantive differences to force-power-influence. To simplify: If I beat you down to get your wallet, I used force. If I used the threat of the said force or fear of some negative consequence, I used power. If I convinced you to give me money with some reasoning (e.g. “I run a charity” or “I’ll be your friend”), I used influence.

    The end results are the same, but there are many relevant factors that are different. For example, when I used force, I expended energy and suffered injury (so force was “consumed” in the application as also happens in, say, war). When I used power, I incurred no physical cost. My power may even increase with use in some circumstances (e.g. others also fear me now and give me their wallets as well) or it may backfire (e.g. I incur ill will or others band against me). When I used influence, the circumstances may yet be different. I incurred no cost, physical or mental, but perhaps the amount of money acquired is small and/or I may be asked to reciprocate later, etc.

    Again, force is almost exclusively used by men. Power is usually wielded by men, but some women have it. On the other hand, many women do have influence. Arguably women may have more influence in our society than men do in general.

    In politics, elected officials are said to have power (say, the threat of sending law enforcement/force after you if you don’t pay taxes) while donors and advisors are said to have influence.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful

  49. @V. K. Ovelund
    @dfordoom


    ... whether they can find a viable alternative candidate (maybe Ivanka?) ...
     
    Please, no. Anyone but Ivanka.

    Replies: @Talha, @dfordoom

    Ivanka vs Chelsea…2030?

    Peace.

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @Talha

    JarVanka is pretty discredited among those who are not totally mind-numbed Trumpeteers. Chelsea, unfortunately, may very well be viable, but AOC will no doubt tell her to check her white privilege, as that office is, like most professional team sports in the US, no longer a place for people like Chelsea.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful, @Talha, @nebulafox

  50. @Twinkie

    1. Remember the “flatten the curve” nonsense, when it was decided that lockdowns and social distancing were necessary to save the healthcare system, so people were not allowed to get their necessary checkups and treatments? It is supposed to be the job of the healthcare system to help the people, not the other way around.
     
    I really wish, AE, you wouldn’t highlight this kind of superficial bullshit masquerading as some deep structural criticism.

    Patients “not [being] allowed to get their necessary checkups and treatments” is completely and utterly false. Emergent and urgent medical services were never prohibited. Some states curtailed elective procedures for some weeks and months during the early phase of the pandemic. Even those restrictions were soon lifted once more was known about the novel virus.

    However, many patients also voluntarily cancelled their elective procedures out of fear and caution (which is eminently reasonable given that hospitals are where the sick congregate*). A small number of people also declined urgent care for the same reason, despite being urged not to by their physicians. Indeed, it is expected that a considerable number of primary care and elective procedure providers will go out of business due to the pandemic.

    *A very close friend of mine needed a procedure urgently (though not emergently) early last year. He contracted Covid at the hospital, seemed to recover after intensive care, then suddenly his BP and oxygen level crashed, and he passed away.

    Replies: @Dumbo, @The Alarmist

    The US isn’t the only country in play here: Plenty of people in the UK were denied routine care, like cancer screenings, during the earlier lockdowns, and even now NHS are struggling to keep up with the backlog they created.

  51. @Talha
    @V. K. Ovelund

    Ivanka vs Chelsea...2030?

    Peace.

    https://media.tenor.com/images/b038bac1e9af8f1aef9740b07d5c92ea/tenor.gif

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    JarVanka is pretty discredited among those who are not totally mind-numbed Trumpeteers. Chelsea, unfortunately, may very well be viable, but AOC will no doubt tell her to check her white privilege, as that office is, like most professional team sports in the US, no longer a place for people like Chelsea.

    • Replies: @Not Only Wrathful
    @The Alarmist

    AOC really could run for President next election. Somehow I never considered it before! Her ability to switch between charm, innocence, nonchalance, harshness, bloodsucking and the occasional drop of authenticity, would work well for her.

    , @Talha
    @The Alarmist

    Possibly, but then again Chelsea is married to a Jewish guy like Ivanka is...so if she converts like Ivanka did, will that garner them both the necessary minority-inclusion points to make them immune from those charges? Interesting to contemplate...

    Peace.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    , @nebulafox
    @The Alarmist

    Jared Kushner's influence on Trump was a national disaster.

  52. @Not Only Wrathful
    @Twinkie

    Distinction without a difference. Perhaps introspect and explore this subject without knee-jerk rationalizing it away?

    Or if you want to understand how your logic is a badly-wrought shield in this instance, perhaps try to rationalize the other side of the argument and see how easy that is? (Very)

    Then ask what you're shielding yourself against...

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Distinction without a difference.

    There are substantive differences to force-power-influence. To simplify: If I beat you down to get your wallet, I used force. If I used the threat of the said force or fear of some negative consequence, I used power. If I convinced you to give me money with some reasoning (e.g. “I run a charity” or “I’ll be your friend”), I used influence.

    The end results are the same, but there are many relevant factors that are different. For example, when I used force, I expended energy and suffered injury (so force was “consumed” in the application as also happens in, say, war). When I used power, I incurred no physical cost. My power may even increase with use in some circumstances (e.g. others also fear me now and give me their wallets as well) or it may backfire (e.g. I incur ill will or others band against me). When I used influence, the circumstances may yet be different. I incurred no cost, physical or mental, but perhaps the amount of money acquired is small and/or I may be asked to reciprocate later, etc.

    Again, force is almost exclusively used by men. Power is usually wielded by men, but some women have it. On the other hand, many women do have influence. Arguably women may have more influence in our society than men do in general.

    In politics, elected officials are said to have power (say, the threat of sending law enforcement/force after you if you don’t pay taxes) while donors and advisors are said to have influence.

    • Replies: @Not Only Wrathful
    @Twinkie

    You are cutting yourself in half and discarding one of the pieces. Is feeling numb worth not feeling hurt?

  53. @Dumbo
    @Twinkie

    The question is not that medical services are allowed to open. It is that many people, especially elderly people, are or have been avoiding going to the hospital for fear of catching Covid there... And understandably, as one of the main places where people seem to catch Covid is the hospital...

    But then they die from other reasons... I know more than one case like that...


    restrictions also likely reduced mortality (e.g. fewer automobile collisions, outdoor accidents, etc.).
     
    Maybe. We'll never know for sure. Doesn't seem in any case a good reason, unless you're suggesting that governments establish a yearly 3-month-lockdown to reduce automobile accidents...

    Replies: @Twinkie

    The question is not that medical services are allowed to open.

    I was addressing another commenter’s unwarranted assertion that was highlighted. Don’t hijack the argument (for the record, I was not opining on “the lockdown,” or whatever Covid-induced restrictions).

    We’ll never know for sure.

    We can figure things out by looking at excess mortality and other statistical information.

    unless you’re suggesting that governments establish a yearly 3-month-lockdown to reduce automobile accidents…

    Yeah, let’s confine everyone to their homes and cut automobile fatality to zero.

    Don’t be ridiculous and don’t use straw man.

    • Replies: @Mark G.
    @Twinkie


    We can figure things out by looking at excess mortality and other statistical information.
     
    That is probably the best thing to look at. The U.S. does have a high excess mortality for 2020. It's hard to say what percentage of that are Covid deaths and what percentage are lockdown deaths. People in the medical profession probably have a better idea of what is happening since they probably have sources of information not available to the average person like me.

    I found it interesting that Florida ranks 27th on Covid deaths per hundred thousand but if you look at all cause mortality for 2019-2020 it ranks 34th. By having fewer restrictions than other states could that have resulted in more Covid deaths but fewer lockdown deaths than other states? Some of the lockdown deaths may be delayed. Poorer people generally live less long and if the lockdowns end up making people poorer for years to come there will be more deaths in the future from the 2020-2021 lockdowns.

    Florida also has more old people than many states. If you adjust for age distribution, Florida has about as many Covid deaths as California. California had lengthy and harsh lockdowns but ended up not doing much better. California also has a badly damaged economy and a large exodus of productive people leaving the state. The states with the harshest lockdowns, mostly Democrat, are now wanting the federal government to bail them out. So we see blue state beggars wanting to worsen the already dire financial condition of the federal government much more than the red states.

    Replies: @Talha, @Twinkie

  54. @dfordoom
    @Wyatt


    The potential for a cascade effect here is massive. The people defending Biden look insane, the continued malfeasance by the Establishment pushes people to the right
     
    It won't necessarily push people to the Right. It will push people towards any group or party or faction that appears to have plausible answers. Since the GOPe offers no plausible answers to anything they're obviously not likely to benefit from any cascade effect. Whether the Trumpists will benefit depends on how viable a 78-year-old Donald Trump will be as a candidate in 2014, and on whether they can find a viable alternative candidate (maybe Ivanka?) if the Donald is too feeble.

    Could the dissident right convince anyone that they offer plausible answers, especially on economic issues? Unlikely, but miracles do happen.

    The old school Economic Left would be in an excellent position to benefit, except that the old school Economic Left scarcely exists any more. But a younger version of Bernie Sanders might be able to led a revival. The communists would be in an excellent position to benefit as well, except that they don't exist at all any more.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @V. K. Ovelund

    Could the dissident right convince anyone that they offer plausible answers, especially on economic issues? Unlikely, but miracles do happen.

    You and I have had a few exchanges regarding the dissident right. I have disagreed, but have also listened to what you have said, and have since made some fresh observations in view of your advice.

    Empirically, there appears to be more truth in your overall criticism of the dissident right than I have been willing to admit. Please don’t ask me to name names, but you have outlined certain behavior in detail, and to my surprise, not that I look for it, I see too much of it to dismiss.

    That’s what you get for being an honest man, . People listen to do—even when it seems that they don’t.

    It is regrettable that the nonpseudonymous masters of our media cannot see fit to be as honest. I might listen to them, too.

    • Agree: Talha
    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @V. K. Ovelund

    Sorry, too many typos in my last reply. Unclear.

    Short version: despite my disagreement, @dfordoom was right.

    , @RSDB
    @V. K. Ovelund


    Empirically, there appears to be more truth in your overall criticism of the dissident right than I have been willing to admit. Please don’t ask me to name names, but you have outlined certain behavior in detail, and to my surprise, not that I look for it, I see too much of it to dismiss.

     

    That's funny; I hadn't noticed any of that on an anecdotal or personal level. Of course, there are two problems with doing so for me: 1) I live on the East Coast, in what is essentially a very liberal enclave, and 2) I'm not exactly sure who forms the "dissident right", or even whether the term is to be understood as self-applied, or as an external label.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

    , @Twinkie
    @V. K. Ovelund

    He isn’t the only one to criticize the human resource problem among the “dissident right,” esp. its self-appointed leaders. I’m fond of repeating Anatoly Karlin’s devastating quick rejoinder, “only the best people.”

    Dfordoom reflexively rails against America, Christianity, and conservatives. That he is critical of the hard right and is right in that particular case doesn’t make him honest or confirm his Weltanschauung. That’s like the neo-cons criticizing black criminality - something obvious - like they were some sort of brave geniuses.

    I actually know - or did, to be more accurate - a few hard rightist “leaders” in person. Several of them had huge chips on their shoulders and had significant personal problems that prevented them from being very productive - they LARP, I suspect, because they like to be seen as “somebody” no matter how reviled rather than be nonentities or failures in “normie” life. Then there are some among them who don’t believe or live what they preach - in other words, they are selling something.

    Replies: @RSDB, @V. K. Ovelund

  55. @V. K. Ovelund
    @dfordoom


    Could the dissident right convince anyone that they offer plausible answers, especially on economic issues? Unlikely, but miracles do happen.
     
    You and I have had a few exchanges regarding the dissident right. I have disagreed, but have also listened to what you have said, and have since made some fresh observations in view of your advice.

    Empirically, there appears to be more truth in your overall criticism of the dissident right than I have been willing to admit. Please don't ask me to name names, but you have outlined certain behavior in detail, and to my surprise, not that I look for it, I see too much of it to dismiss.

    That's what you get for being an honest man, @dfordoom. People listen to do—even when it seems that they don't.

    It is regrettable that the nonpseudonymous masters of our media cannot see fit to be as honest. I might listen to them, too.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @RSDB, @Twinkie

    Sorry, too many typos in my last reply. Unclear.

    Short version: despite my disagreement, was right.

  56. @Twinkie
    @Not Only Wrathful


    Distinction without a difference.
     
    There are substantive differences to force-power-influence. To simplify: If I beat you down to get your wallet, I used force. If I used the threat of the said force or fear of some negative consequence, I used power. If I convinced you to give me money with some reasoning (e.g. “I run a charity” or “I’ll be your friend”), I used influence.

    The end results are the same, but there are many relevant factors that are different. For example, when I used force, I expended energy and suffered injury (so force was “consumed” in the application as also happens in, say, war). When I used power, I incurred no physical cost. My power may even increase with use in some circumstances (e.g. others also fear me now and give me their wallets as well) or it may backfire (e.g. I incur ill will or others band against me). When I used influence, the circumstances may yet be different. I incurred no cost, physical or mental, but perhaps the amount of money acquired is small and/or I may be asked to reciprocate later, etc.

    Again, force is almost exclusively used by men. Power is usually wielded by men, but some women have it. On the other hand, many women do have influence. Arguably women may have more influence in our society than men do in general.

    In politics, elected officials are said to have power (say, the threat of sending law enforcement/force after you if you don’t pay taxes) while donors and advisors are said to have influence.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful

    You are cutting yourself in half and discarding one of the pieces. Is feeling numb worth not feeling hurt?

  57. @The Alarmist
    @Talha

    JarVanka is pretty discredited among those who are not totally mind-numbed Trumpeteers. Chelsea, unfortunately, may very well be viable, but AOC will no doubt tell her to check her white privilege, as that office is, like most professional team sports in the US, no longer a place for people like Chelsea.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful, @Talha, @nebulafox

    AOC really could run for President next election. Somehow I never considered it before! Her ability to switch between charm, innocence, nonchalance, harshness, bloodsucking and the occasional drop of authenticity, would work well for her.

  58. @The Alarmist
    @Talha

    JarVanka is pretty discredited among those who are not totally mind-numbed Trumpeteers. Chelsea, unfortunately, may very well be viable, but AOC will no doubt tell her to check her white privilege, as that office is, like most professional team sports in the US, no longer a place for people like Chelsea.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful, @Talha, @nebulafox

    Possibly, but then again Chelsea is married to a Jewish guy like Ivanka is…so if she converts like Ivanka did, will that garner them both the necessary minority-inclusion points to make them immune from those charges? Interesting to contemplate…

    Peace.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @Talha

    Ivanka will always be a shiksa in the eyes of the J-community.

    Replies: @Talha

  59. @Twinkie
    @Dumbo


    The question is not that medical services are allowed to open.
     
    I was addressing another commenter’s unwarranted assertion that was highlighted. Don’t hijack the argument (for the record, I was not opining on “the lockdown,” or whatever Covid-induced restrictions).

    We’ll never know for sure.
     
    We can figure things out by looking at excess mortality and other statistical information.

    unless you’re suggesting that governments establish a yearly 3-month-lockdown to reduce automobile accidents…
     
    Yeah, let’s confine everyone to their homes and cut automobile fatality to zero.

    Don’t be ridiculous and don’t use straw man.

    Replies: @Mark G.

    We can figure things out by looking at excess mortality and other statistical information.

    That is probably the best thing to look at. The U.S. does have a high excess mortality for 2020. It’s hard to say what percentage of that are Covid deaths and what percentage are lockdown deaths. People in the medical profession probably have a better idea of what is happening since they probably have sources of information not available to the average person like me.

    I found it interesting that Florida ranks 27th on Covid deaths per hundred thousand but if you look at all cause mortality for 2019-2020 it ranks 34th. By having fewer restrictions than other states could that have resulted in more Covid deaths but fewer lockdown deaths than other states? Some of the lockdown deaths may be delayed. Poorer people generally live less long and if the lockdowns end up making people poorer for years to come there will be more deaths in the future from the 2020-2021 lockdowns.

    Florida also has more old people than many states. If you adjust for age distribution, Florida has about as many Covid deaths as California. California had lengthy and harsh lockdowns but ended up not doing much better. California also has a badly damaged economy and a large exodus of productive people leaving the state. The states with the harshest lockdowns, mostly Democrat, are now wanting the federal government to bail them out. So we see blue state beggars wanting to worsen the already dire financial condition of the federal government much more than the red states.

    • Replies: @Talha
    @Mark G.


    That is probably the best thing to look at. The U.S. does have a high excess mortality for 2020. It’s hard to say what percentage of that are Covid deaths and what percentage are lockdown deaths.
     
    As I mentioned in a previous post, when I went to visit the cemetery in California where my father is buried, I compared the number of graves from 2019 to those marked 2020. This is relatively straightforward in dedicated Muslim cemeteries in the US (and places like UK) since they are set up quite simply:
    https://compote.slate.com/images/6554e4c7-9666-4793-9bc9-b7efe91ac786.jpg

    You go down the rows and start counting from the start of 2019 until the end and then again for 2020.

    In my father’s graveyard, there was an increase of almost 30% in 2020 compared to 2019. Let’s say 10% is because new people found out about this cemetery as an option or moved into the area. That is still a stunning 20% increase for whatever reason in 2020.

    My cousin is involved with the burial committee in the mosque local to the graveyard and basically all of the burials go through her team. She said there was a massive number of official Covid deaths in the community. Now, the question is; was anything that was Covid-like attributed to Covid? I know they didn’t simply classify all deaths in the hospital as Covid-related because my father was listed as dying due to complications from a heart attack. His body was allowed to be washed and buried according to normal rites whereas the other body buried on the same day was not allowed to be washed because it was a Covid death.

    Either way, there was a sizable increase in deaths in that little snapshot of a community 2020.

    And it must be noted that this was in California which seems to have been particularly harder hit than other places.

    Peace.

    , @Twinkie
    @Mark G.


    Florida also has more old people than many states. If you adjust for age distribution, Florida has about as many Covid deaths as California. California had lengthy and harsh lockdowns but ended up not doing much better. California also has a badly damaged economy and a large exodus of productive people leaving the state.
     
    There are many variables that are associated with high infection rate or high mortality. “Lockdown,” however it is defined, isn’t the only one.

    The states with the harshest lockdowns, mostly Democrat, are now wanting the federal government to bail them out. So we see blue state beggars wanting to worsen the already dire financial condition of the federal government much more than the red states.
     
    Months ago, I warned against people here who were almost celebrating that this was a “blue state” problem. I wrote that pandemics initially start and devastate high density areas, but eventually spread to low density areas, and that our (American) rural areas are increasingly devoid of advanced medical care due to consolidation in the industry.
  60. @Talha
    @The Alarmist

    Possibly, but then again Chelsea is married to a Jewish guy like Ivanka is...so if she converts like Ivanka did, will that garner them both the necessary minority-inclusion points to make them immune from those charges? Interesting to contemplate...

    Peace.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    Ivanka will always be a shiksa in the eyes of the J-community.

    • Replies: @Talha
    @The Alarmist

    Quite possible, but how will it be presented to everyone else - that is key.

    The Jewish vote is a few million, the candidate would need to be insulated to outside criticism along white-privilege lines.

    Peace.

  61. @Mark G.
    @Twinkie


    We can figure things out by looking at excess mortality and other statistical information.
     
    That is probably the best thing to look at. The U.S. does have a high excess mortality for 2020. It's hard to say what percentage of that are Covid deaths and what percentage are lockdown deaths. People in the medical profession probably have a better idea of what is happening since they probably have sources of information not available to the average person like me.

    I found it interesting that Florida ranks 27th on Covid deaths per hundred thousand but if you look at all cause mortality for 2019-2020 it ranks 34th. By having fewer restrictions than other states could that have resulted in more Covid deaths but fewer lockdown deaths than other states? Some of the lockdown deaths may be delayed. Poorer people generally live less long and if the lockdowns end up making people poorer for years to come there will be more deaths in the future from the 2020-2021 lockdowns.

    Florida also has more old people than many states. If you adjust for age distribution, Florida has about as many Covid deaths as California. California had lengthy and harsh lockdowns but ended up not doing much better. California also has a badly damaged economy and a large exodus of productive people leaving the state. The states with the harshest lockdowns, mostly Democrat, are now wanting the federal government to bail them out. So we see blue state beggars wanting to worsen the already dire financial condition of the federal government much more than the red states.

    Replies: @Talha, @Twinkie

    That is probably the best thing to look at. The U.S. does have a high excess mortality for 2020. It’s hard to say what percentage of that are Covid deaths and what percentage are lockdown deaths.

    As I mentioned in a previous post, when I went to visit the cemetery in California where my father is buried, I compared the number of graves from 2019 to those marked 2020. This is relatively straightforward in dedicated Muslim cemeteries in the US (and places like UK) since they are set up quite simply:
    You go down the rows and start counting from the start of 2019 until the end and then again for 2020.

    In my father’s graveyard, there was an increase of almost 30% in 2020 compared to 2019. Let’s say 10% is because new people found out about this cemetery as an option or moved into the area. That is still a stunning 20% increase for whatever reason in 2020.

    My cousin is involved with the burial committee in the mosque local to the graveyard and basically all of the burials go through her team. She said there was a massive number of official Covid deaths in the community. Now, the question is; was anything that was Covid-like attributed to Covid? I know they didn’t simply classify all deaths in the hospital as Covid-related because my father was listed as dying due to complications from a heart attack. His body was allowed to be washed and buried according to normal rites whereas the other body buried on the same day was not allowed to be washed because it was a Covid death.

    Either way, there was a sizable increase in deaths in that little snapshot of a community 2020.

    And it must be noted that this was in California which seems to have been particularly harder hit than other places.

    Peace.

    • Thanks: Mark G.
  62. @The Alarmist
    @Talha

    Ivanka will always be a shiksa in the eyes of the J-community.

    Replies: @Talha

    Quite possible, but how will it be presented to everyone else – that is key.

    The Jewish vote is a few million, the candidate would need to be insulated to outside criticism along white-privilege lines.

    Peace.

  63. @V. K. Ovelund
    @dfordoom


    Could the dissident right convince anyone that they offer plausible answers, especially on economic issues? Unlikely, but miracles do happen.
     
    You and I have had a few exchanges regarding the dissident right. I have disagreed, but have also listened to what you have said, and have since made some fresh observations in view of your advice.

    Empirically, there appears to be more truth in your overall criticism of the dissident right than I have been willing to admit. Please don't ask me to name names, but you have outlined certain behavior in detail, and to my surprise, not that I look for it, I see too much of it to dismiss.

    That's what you get for being an honest man, @dfordoom. People listen to do—even when it seems that they don't.

    It is regrettable that the nonpseudonymous masters of our media cannot see fit to be as honest. I might listen to them, too.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @RSDB, @Twinkie

    Empirically, there appears to be more truth in your overall criticism of the dissident right than I have been willing to admit. Please don’t ask me to name names, but you have outlined certain behavior in detail, and to my surprise, not that I look for it, I see too much of it to dismiss.

    That’s funny; I hadn’t noticed any of that on an anecdotal or personal level. Of course, there are two problems with doing so for me: 1) I live on the East Coast, in what is essentially a very liberal enclave, and 2) I’m not exactly sure who forms the “dissident right”, or even whether the term is to be understood as self-applied, or as an external label.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @RSDB


    That’s funny; I hadn’t noticed any of that on an anecdotal or personal level. Of course, there are two problems with doing so for me: 1) I live on the East Coast, in what is essentially a very liberal enclave, and 2) I’m not exactly sure who forms the “dissident right”, or even whether the term is to be understood as self-applied, or as an external label.
     
    The unfortunate, empirical fact seems to be that, in my exchanges with @dfordoom during recent months, I have significantly overplayed my defense of the U.S. dissident right. Empirical facts must be acknowledged, or there is little hope for any of us. On several recent occasions, a dissident rightist has done something in my virtual presence that made me cringe silently to myself, “Don't do that! That is just the behavior of which my verbal sparring partner @dfordoom accuses you!”

    As @dfordoom has observed, it's not all dissident rightists who behave so, but it's too many. Worse, unlike @dfordoom, more than a few dissident rightists flagrantly overreact to even the mildest attempt at constructive criticism—as Ron Unz and others can testify.

    A few will conclude from this that V.K. Ovelund must not actually be dissident right, but I can't help that. I've nothing to prove.

    Some dissident rightists remain personal friends of mine in real life, though. I intend to keep my friends, so I'd rather not say a lot more.

  64. @The Alarmist
    @Talha

    JarVanka is pretty discredited among those who are not totally mind-numbed Trumpeteers. Chelsea, unfortunately, may very well be viable, but AOC will no doubt tell her to check her white privilege, as that office is, like most professional team sports in the US, no longer a place for people like Chelsea.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful, @Talha, @nebulafox

    Jared Kushner’s influence on Trump was a national disaster.

    • Agree: Talha, The Alarmist
  65. @Mark G.
    @Twinkie


    We can figure things out by looking at excess mortality and other statistical information.
     
    That is probably the best thing to look at. The U.S. does have a high excess mortality for 2020. It's hard to say what percentage of that are Covid deaths and what percentage are lockdown deaths. People in the medical profession probably have a better idea of what is happening since they probably have sources of information not available to the average person like me.

    I found it interesting that Florida ranks 27th on Covid deaths per hundred thousand but if you look at all cause mortality for 2019-2020 it ranks 34th. By having fewer restrictions than other states could that have resulted in more Covid deaths but fewer lockdown deaths than other states? Some of the lockdown deaths may be delayed. Poorer people generally live less long and if the lockdowns end up making people poorer for years to come there will be more deaths in the future from the 2020-2021 lockdowns.

    Florida also has more old people than many states. If you adjust for age distribution, Florida has about as many Covid deaths as California. California had lengthy and harsh lockdowns but ended up not doing much better. California also has a badly damaged economy and a large exodus of productive people leaving the state. The states with the harshest lockdowns, mostly Democrat, are now wanting the federal government to bail them out. So we see blue state beggars wanting to worsen the already dire financial condition of the federal government much more than the red states.

    Replies: @Talha, @Twinkie

    Florida also has more old people than many states. If you adjust for age distribution, Florida has about as many Covid deaths as California. California had lengthy and harsh lockdowns but ended up not doing much better. California also has a badly damaged economy and a large exodus of productive people leaving the state.

    There are many variables that are associated with high infection rate or high mortality. “Lockdown,” however it is defined, isn’t the only one.

    The states with the harshest lockdowns, mostly Democrat, are now wanting the federal government to bail them out. So we see blue state beggars wanting to worsen the already dire financial condition of the federal government much more than the red states.

    Months ago, I warned against people here who were almost celebrating that this was a “blue state” problem. I wrote that pandemics initially start and devastate high density areas, but eventually spread to low density areas, and that our (American) rural areas are increasingly devoid of advanced medical care due to consolidation in the industry.

  66. @V. K. Ovelund
    @dfordoom


    Could the dissident right convince anyone that they offer plausible answers, especially on economic issues? Unlikely, but miracles do happen.
     
    You and I have had a few exchanges regarding the dissident right. I have disagreed, but have also listened to what you have said, and have since made some fresh observations in view of your advice.

    Empirically, there appears to be more truth in your overall criticism of the dissident right than I have been willing to admit. Please don't ask me to name names, but you have outlined certain behavior in detail, and to my surprise, not that I look for it, I see too much of it to dismiss.

    That's what you get for being an honest man, @dfordoom. People listen to do—even when it seems that they don't.

    It is regrettable that the nonpseudonymous masters of our media cannot see fit to be as honest. I might listen to them, too.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @RSDB, @Twinkie

    He isn’t the only one to criticize the human resource problem among the “dissident right,” esp. its self-appointed leaders. I’m fond of repeating Anatoly Karlin’s devastating quick rejoinder, “only the best people.”

    Dfordoom reflexively rails against America, Christianity, and conservatives. That he is critical of the hard right and is right in that particular case doesn’t make him honest or confirm his Weltanschauung. That’s like the neo-cons criticizing black criminality – something obvious – like they were some sort of brave geniuses.

    I actually know – or did, to be more accurate – a few hard rightist “leaders” in person. Several of them had huge chips on their shoulders and had significant personal problems that prevented them from being very productive – they LARP, I suspect, because they like to be seen as “somebody” no matter how reviled rather than be nonentities or failures in “normie” life. Then there are some among them who don’t believe or live what they preach – in other words, they are selling something.

    • Replies: @RSDB
    @Twinkie

    My problem with the phrase "dissident right" is that I'm not sure what it means. Back in 2015/2016 or so I would probably have called myself "alt-right", though all I would have meant by it was that I was generally on the right but had little affection for what has since become known as the "GOPe"; I had as little affection for people like Richard Spencer insofar as I was aware of them at all.


    He isn’t the only one to criticize the human resource problem among the “dissident right,” esp. its self-appointed leaders. I’m fond of repeating Anatoly Karlin’s devastating quick rejoinder, “only the best people.”

     

    It's interesting that Mr. Karlin is much associated with such people at all; people from a West Coast "transhumanist"/"rationalist" background seem usually to be leftists or perhaps libertarians.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @V. K. Ovelund
    @Twinkie


    I actually know – or did, to be more accurate – a few hard rightist “leaders” in person. Several of them had huge chips on their shoulders and had significant personal problems that prevented them from being very productive – they LARP, I suspect, because they like to be seen as “somebody” no matter how reviled rather than be nonentities or failures in “normie” life.
     
    As you probably know, it's a mix. Most of us have personal problems, of course. I certainly do. It's chiefly a question of whether one can, and whether one will, rein in one's personal problems so that personal problems not spill over to become problems for everybody else.

    Dissident rightists have been egregiously badly treated. They have routinely been put under the proverbial magnifying glass at work—which, naturally, magnifies personal problems out of all just proportion, when what the rest of us really ought to be doing is minding our own damned business.

    The mote is in the dissident right's eye. In whose eye, the beam?

    Nevertheless, your criticism rings true on the whole.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  67. @Twinkie
    @V. K. Ovelund

    He isn’t the only one to criticize the human resource problem among the “dissident right,” esp. its self-appointed leaders. I’m fond of repeating Anatoly Karlin’s devastating quick rejoinder, “only the best people.”

    Dfordoom reflexively rails against America, Christianity, and conservatives. That he is critical of the hard right and is right in that particular case doesn’t make him honest or confirm his Weltanschauung. That’s like the neo-cons criticizing black criminality - something obvious - like they were some sort of brave geniuses.

    I actually know - or did, to be more accurate - a few hard rightist “leaders” in person. Several of them had huge chips on their shoulders and had significant personal problems that prevented them from being very productive - they LARP, I suspect, because they like to be seen as “somebody” no matter how reviled rather than be nonentities or failures in “normie” life. Then there are some among them who don’t believe or live what they preach - in other words, they are selling something.

    Replies: @RSDB, @V. K. Ovelund

    My problem with the phrase “dissident right” is that I’m not sure what it means. Back in 2015/2016 or so I would probably have called myself “alt-right”, though all I would have meant by it was that I was generally on the right but had little affection for what has since become known as the “GOPe”; I had as little affection for people like Richard Spencer insofar as I was aware of them at all.

    He isn’t the only one to criticize the human resource problem among the “dissident right,” esp. its self-appointed leaders. I’m fond of repeating Anatoly Karlin’s devastating quick rejoinder, “only the best people.”

    It’s interesting that Mr. Karlin is much associated with such people at all; people from a West Coast “transhumanist”/”rationalist” background seem usually to be leftists or perhaps libertarians.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @RSDB


    My problem with the phrase “dissident right” is that I’m not sure what it means.
     
    Although the term ought to include all sorts of rightists who are not represented (or marginalized) by the Republican Party, in reality it is most often used by self-appointed "advocates for whites" (the quotation marks are intentional) to refer to themselves. So, although, for example, I see myself as a dissident rightist, at least some, possibly most, self-described dissident rightists would not see me as one and would consign me instead to "the Coalition of the Fringes," simply on the basis of my race.

    It’s interesting that Mr. Karlin is much associated with such people at all
     
    He seems to describe himself as a Russian nationalist, so I would take his word for it. He also appears to claim any gestures from him (online or otherwise) that strike some as "dissident rightist" is merely ironic, so I also take him at his word on that though he seems to find blacks distasteful and use less than gentlemanly language about them.
  68. @RSDB
    @Twinkie

    My problem with the phrase "dissident right" is that I'm not sure what it means. Back in 2015/2016 or so I would probably have called myself "alt-right", though all I would have meant by it was that I was generally on the right but had little affection for what has since become known as the "GOPe"; I had as little affection for people like Richard Spencer insofar as I was aware of them at all.


    He isn’t the only one to criticize the human resource problem among the “dissident right,” esp. its self-appointed leaders. I’m fond of repeating Anatoly Karlin’s devastating quick rejoinder, “only the best people.”

     

    It's interesting that Mr. Karlin is much associated with such people at all; people from a West Coast "transhumanist"/"rationalist" background seem usually to be leftists or perhaps libertarians.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    My problem with the phrase “dissident right” is that I’m not sure what it means.

    Although the term ought to include all sorts of rightists who are not represented (or marginalized) by the Republican Party, in reality it is most often used by self-appointed “advocates for whites” (the quotation marks are intentional) to refer to themselves. So, although, for example, I see myself as a dissident rightist, at least some, possibly most, self-described dissident rightists would not see me as one and would consign me instead to “the Coalition of the Fringes,” simply on the basis of my race.

    It’s interesting that Mr. Karlin is much associated with such people at all

    He seems to describe himself as a Russian nationalist, so I would take his word for it. He also appears to claim any gestures from him (online or otherwise) that strike some as “dissident rightist” is merely ironic, so I also take him at his word on that though he seems to find blacks distasteful and use less than gentlemanly language about them.

  69. @RSDB
    @V. K. Ovelund


    Empirically, there appears to be more truth in your overall criticism of the dissident right than I have been willing to admit. Please don’t ask me to name names, but you have outlined certain behavior in detail, and to my surprise, not that I look for it, I see too much of it to dismiss.

     

    That's funny; I hadn't noticed any of that on an anecdotal or personal level. Of course, there are two problems with doing so for me: 1) I live on the East Coast, in what is essentially a very liberal enclave, and 2) I'm not exactly sure who forms the "dissident right", or even whether the term is to be understood as self-applied, or as an external label.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

    That’s funny; I hadn’t noticed any of that on an anecdotal or personal level. Of course, there are two problems with doing so for me: 1) I live on the East Coast, in what is essentially a very liberal enclave, and 2) I’m not exactly sure who forms the “dissident right”, or even whether the term is to be understood as self-applied, or as an external label.

    The unfortunate, empirical fact seems to be that, in my exchanges with during recent months, I have significantly overplayed my defense of the U.S. dissident right. Empirical facts must be acknowledged, or there is little hope for any of us. On several recent occasions, a dissident rightist has done something in my virtual presence that made me cringe silently to myself, “Don’t do that! That is just the behavior of which my verbal sparring partner accuses you!”

    As has observed, it’s not all dissident rightists who behave so, but it’s too many. Worse, unlike , more than a few dissident rightists flagrantly overreact to even the mildest attempt at constructive criticism—as Ron Unz and others can testify.

    A few will conclude from this that V.K. Ovelund must not actually be dissident right, but I can’t help that. I’ve nothing to prove.

    Some dissident rightists remain personal friends of mine in real life, though. I intend to keep my friends, so I’d rather not say a lot more.

  70. @Twinkie
    @V. K. Ovelund

    He isn’t the only one to criticize the human resource problem among the “dissident right,” esp. its self-appointed leaders. I’m fond of repeating Anatoly Karlin’s devastating quick rejoinder, “only the best people.”

    Dfordoom reflexively rails against America, Christianity, and conservatives. That he is critical of the hard right and is right in that particular case doesn’t make him honest or confirm his Weltanschauung. That’s like the neo-cons criticizing black criminality - something obvious - like they were some sort of brave geniuses.

    I actually know - or did, to be more accurate - a few hard rightist “leaders” in person. Several of them had huge chips on their shoulders and had significant personal problems that prevented them from being very productive - they LARP, I suspect, because they like to be seen as “somebody” no matter how reviled rather than be nonentities or failures in “normie” life. Then there are some among them who don’t believe or live what they preach - in other words, they are selling something.

    Replies: @RSDB, @V. K. Ovelund

    I actually know – or did, to be more accurate – a few hard rightist “leaders” in person. Several of them had huge chips on their shoulders and had significant personal problems that prevented them from being very productive – they LARP, I suspect, because they like to be seen as “somebody” no matter how reviled rather than be nonentities or failures in “normie” life.

    As you probably know, it’s a mix. Most of us have personal problems, of course. I certainly do. It’s chiefly a question of whether one can, and whether one will, rein in one’s personal problems so that personal problems not spill over to become problems for everybody else.

    Dissident rightists have been egregiously badly treated. They have routinely been put under the proverbial magnifying glass at work—which, naturally, magnifies personal problems out of all just proportion, when what the rest of us really ought to be doing is minding our own damned business.

    The mote is in the dissident right’s eye. In whose eye, the beam?

    Nevertheless, your criticism rings true on the whole.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @V. K. Ovelund


    Dissident rightists have been egregiously badly treated. They have routinely been put under the proverbial magnifying glass at work—which, naturally, magnifies personal problems out of all just proportion, when what the rest of us really ought to be doing is minding our own damned business.
     
    Sure, but 1) several of the dissident rightists had these problems long before they were dissident rightist "leaders" under the spotlight and 2) if they really didn't want the negative liberal media spotlight, they didn't have to become self-appointed "leaders." As it were, they enjoy the attention, however negative it might be. And they then also play the victim card just like any other "Coalition of the Fringes" grifter. So in reality they are also fringe grifters.

    Fact of the matter is that when you seek leadership, the limelight, and the media attention, magnification of personal problems come with the territory. See Andrew Cuomo's latest troubles - and he was the liberal media's darling just a few months ago. You know the saying - if you want to act like a big boy, put on your big boy pants and don't whine.

    Nevertheless, your criticism rings true on the whole.
     
    This is what I see. Although most Americans are repelled by the hard racist stuff ("It's always the Jews!" or "white ethno-state!"), they are in the main sympathetic to much of what dissident rightists advocate (dismantling affirmative action, limiting immigration, critiquing and combating anti-white racism, reversing the valorization of blacks - the list goes on).

    Why then won't this broad agreement translate to substantive following? First, the hard racist stuff is hard to swallow for most people - enough Americans have family members, friends, neighbors, colleagues, relatives, and other people they care about who are of a difference race and won't tolerate people who call for some harsh measures against them (what I call the "gas oven" talk or the "day of the rope" talk). Even among blacks, who are statistically much more obsessed about their own race on average, most are opposed to harming whites (even if they incorrectly blame whites for their problems). And blacks are not even the majority or plurality of nonwhites in this country anymore and there are millions of whites whose kinship and social network is enmeshed with Asians and Hispanics.

    Second, in reality, most people don't follow ideas (notwithstanding neocons who are "not willing to die for their country or its people, but for free-trade"), they follow people whom they find admirable, attractive, and appealing - and especially those who they think care about people like themselves. An old saying in politics is, "people don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care."

    Among all these "dissident rightists" - and, let's be frank here, for most of them that's a self-described euphemism and they are, in reality, white supremacists or separatists - who claim to advocate for white people, how many of them actually have done things to help whites in distress? Have they laid a single brick to build a home for downscale whites? Have they set up any charity to help the white jobless? Have they lifted a finger to teach job/life skills to young impoverished whites? (Yes, yes, I know the objection already - "But you can't do white-only stuff! It's against the law!" - but you and I both know this can be bypassed pretty easily - you do "homebuilding for the rural homeless" in West Virginia and you are going to end up helping almost exclusively the poor whites).

    The reality is that these so-called dissident rightist leaders aren't real leaders working toward real solutions. Quite a few are just people with problems who can't hack it in ordinary life who get off on the mostly negative attention ("still attention!") and the sense of perceived martyrdom that comes within a very small circle of fringe people. So they LARP and pretend and pose for the media, but they do nothing of the real work it takes to mobilize, organize, and uplift the people for whom they purport to advocate. And most people can see that rather transparently and won't follow them.

    Just to be clear, they are not all losers. I know at least one "dissident leader" who lives close to me who is extraordinarily intelligent and financially successful. But he also doesn't live in private what he publicly preaches - in other words, he's projecting an image to a select audience that is not true. He is, as I put earlier, selling something.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @Luzzatto, @Talha

  71. @V. K. Ovelund
    @Twinkie


    I actually know – or did, to be more accurate – a few hard rightist “leaders” in person. Several of them had huge chips on their shoulders and had significant personal problems that prevented them from being very productive – they LARP, I suspect, because they like to be seen as “somebody” no matter how reviled rather than be nonentities or failures in “normie” life.
     
    As you probably know, it's a mix. Most of us have personal problems, of course. I certainly do. It's chiefly a question of whether one can, and whether one will, rein in one's personal problems so that personal problems not spill over to become problems for everybody else.

    Dissident rightists have been egregiously badly treated. They have routinely been put under the proverbial magnifying glass at work—which, naturally, magnifies personal problems out of all just proportion, when what the rest of us really ought to be doing is minding our own damned business.

    The mote is in the dissident right's eye. In whose eye, the beam?

    Nevertheless, your criticism rings true on the whole.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Dissident rightists have been egregiously badly treated. They have routinely been put under the proverbial magnifying glass at work—which, naturally, magnifies personal problems out of all just proportion, when what the rest of us really ought to be doing is minding our own damned business.

    Sure, but 1) several of the dissident rightists had these problems long before they were dissident rightist “leaders” under the spotlight and 2) if they really didn’t want the negative liberal media spotlight, they didn’t have to become self-appointed “leaders.” As it were, they enjoy the attention, however negative it might be. And they then also play the victim card just like any other “Coalition of the Fringes” grifter. So in reality they are also fringe grifters.

    Fact of the matter is that when you seek leadership, the limelight, and the media attention, magnification of personal problems come with the territory. See Andrew Cuomo’s latest troubles – and he was the liberal media’s darling just a few months ago. You know the saying – if you want to act like a big boy, put on your big boy pants and don’t whine.

    Nevertheless, your criticism rings true on the whole.

    This is what I see. Although most Americans are repelled by the hard racist stuff (“It’s always the Jews!” or “white ethno-state!”), they are in the main sympathetic to much of what dissident rightists advocate (dismantling affirmative action, limiting immigration, critiquing and combating anti-white racism, reversing the valorization of blacks – the list goes on).

    Why then won’t this broad agreement translate to substantive following? First, the hard racist stuff is hard to swallow for most people – enough Americans have family members, friends, neighbors, colleagues, relatives, and other people they care about who are of a difference race and won’t tolerate people who call for some harsh measures against them (what I call the “gas oven” talk or the “day of the rope” talk). Even among blacks, who are statistically much more obsessed about their own race on average, most are opposed to harming whites (even if they incorrectly blame whites for their problems). And blacks are not even the majority or plurality of nonwhites in this country anymore and there are millions of whites whose kinship and social network is enmeshed with Asians and Hispanics.

    Second, in reality, most people don’t follow ideas (notwithstanding neocons who are “not willing to die for their country or its people, but for free-trade”), they follow people whom they find admirable, attractive, and appealing – and especially those who they think care about people like themselves. An old saying in politics is, “people don’t care how much you know, until they know how much you care.”

    Among all these “dissident rightists” – and, let’s be frank here, for most of them that’s a self-described euphemism and they are, in reality, white supremacists or separatists – who claim to advocate for white people, how many of them actually have done things to help whites in distress? Have they laid a single brick to build a home for downscale whites? Have they set up any charity to help the white jobless? Have they lifted a finger to teach job/life skills to young impoverished whites? (Yes, yes, I know the objection already – “But you can’t do white-only stuff! It’s against the law!” – but you and I both know this can be bypassed pretty easily – you do “homebuilding for the rural homeless” in West Virginia and you are going to end up helping almost exclusively the poor whites).

    The reality is that these so-called dissident rightist leaders aren’t real leaders working toward real solutions. Quite a few are just people with problems who can’t hack it in ordinary life who get off on the mostly negative attention (“still attention!”) and the sense of perceived martyrdom that comes within a very small circle of fringe people. So they LARP and pretend and pose for the media, but they do nothing of the real work it takes to mobilize, organize, and uplift the people for whom they purport to advocate. And most people can see that rather transparently and won’t follow them.

    Just to be clear, they are not all losers. I know at least one “dissident leader” who lives close to me who is extraordinarily intelligent and financially successful. But he also doesn’t live in private what he publicly preaches – in other words, he’s projecting an image to a select audience that is not true. He is, as I put earlier, selling something.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @Twinkie

    I have closely read every word. The reply is appreciated.

    I do not think that it is for me (even pseudonymously) to criticize my dissident-right friends in public. Infighting is ludicrously counterproductive. My sole target is on the Left.

    On the other hand, facts are facts, nor are they less factual because you have observed them while I have denied them. Thus, your reply can stand without amplification or contradiction by me.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Luzzatto
    @Twinkie

    White Supremacists are way too poor as a demographic group to successfully start their own Nordic Aryan racial-state. It would require trillions of dollars to start their own Nordic Aryan racial-state which is the type financial capital the White Supremacist demographic group just do not have.

    White Supremacists are not occupying any of the wealthiest majority White zip codes in The United States. White Supremacists are part of the White underclass ironically. The Whites who claim to be the most racially superior are the Whites who least have their financial shit together. And these White Supremacists blame the Jews for why they are stuck in dead end low paying jobs just like Blacks blame Whites for why they are stuck in dead end low paying jobs!

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @Audacious Epigone

    , @Talha
    @Twinkie

    Solid comment! Thanks! Lots of good points for people to ponder over.

    Peace.

  72. @Twinkie
    @V. K. Ovelund


    Dissident rightists have been egregiously badly treated. They have routinely been put under the proverbial magnifying glass at work—which, naturally, magnifies personal problems out of all just proportion, when what the rest of us really ought to be doing is minding our own damned business.
     
    Sure, but 1) several of the dissident rightists had these problems long before they were dissident rightist "leaders" under the spotlight and 2) if they really didn't want the negative liberal media spotlight, they didn't have to become self-appointed "leaders." As it were, they enjoy the attention, however negative it might be. And they then also play the victim card just like any other "Coalition of the Fringes" grifter. So in reality they are also fringe grifters.

    Fact of the matter is that when you seek leadership, the limelight, and the media attention, magnification of personal problems come with the territory. See Andrew Cuomo's latest troubles - and he was the liberal media's darling just a few months ago. You know the saying - if you want to act like a big boy, put on your big boy pants and don't whine.

    Nevertheless, your criticism rings true on the whole.
     
    This is what I see. Although most Americans are repelled by the hard racist stuff ("It's always the Jews!" or "white ethno-state!"), they are in the main sympathetic to much of what dissident rightists advocate (dismantling affirmative action, limiting immigration, critiquing and combating anti-white racism, reversing the valorization of blacks - the list goes on).

    Why then won't this broad agreement translate to substantive following? First, the hard racist stuff is hard to swallow for most people - enough Americans have family members, friends, neighbors, colleagues, relatives, and other people they care about who are of a difference race and won't tolerate people who call for some harsh measures against them (what I call the "gas oven" talk or the "day of the rope" talk). Even among blacks, who are statistically much more obsessed about their own race on average, most are opposed to harming whites (even if they incorrectly blame whites for their problems). And blacks are not even the majority or plurality of nonwhites in this country anymore and there are millions of whites whose kinship and social network is enmeshed with Asians and Hispanics.

    Second, in reality, most people don't follow ideas (notwithstanding neocons who are "not willing to die for their country or its people, but for free-trade"), they follow people whom they find admirable, attractive, and appealing - and especially those who they think care about people like themselves. An old saying in politics is, "people don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care."

    Among all these "dissident rightists" - and, let's be frank here, for most of them that's a self-described euphemism and they are, in reality, white supremacists or separatists - who claim to advocate for white people, how many of them actually have done things to help whites in distress? Have they laid a single brick to build a home for downscale whites? Have they set up any charity to help the white jobless? Have they lifted a finger to teach job/life skills to young impoverished whites? (Yes, yes, I know the objection already - "But you can't do white-only stuff! It's against the law!" - but you and I both know this can be bypassed pretty easily - you do "homebuilding for the rural homeless" in West Virginia and you are going to end up helping almost exclusively the poor whites).

    The reality is that these so-called dissident rightist leaders aren't real leaders working toward real solutions. Quite a few are just people with problems who can't hack it in ordinary life who get off on the mostly negative attention ("still attention!") and the sense of perceived martyrdom that comes within a very small circle of fringe people. So they LARP and pretend and pose for the media, but they do nothing of the real work it takes to mobilize, organize, and uplift the people for whom they purport to advocate. And most people can see that rather transparently and won't follow them.

    Just to be clear, they are not all losers. I know at least one "dissident leader" who lives close to me who is extraordinarily intelligent and financially successful. But he also doesn't live in private what he publicly preaches - in other words, he's projecting an image to a select audience that is not true. He is, as I put earlier, selling something.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @Luzzatto, @Talha

    I have closely read every word. The reply is appreciated.

    I do not think that it is for me (even pseudonymously) to criticize my dissident-right friends in public. Infighting is ludicrously counterproductive. My sole target is on the Left.

    On the other hand, facts are facts, nor are they less factual because you have observed them while I have denied them. Thus, your reply can stand without amplification or contradiction by me.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @V. K. Ovelund


    I do not think that it is for me (even pseudonymously) to criticize my dissident-right friends in public. Infighting is ludicrously counterproductive. My sole target is on the Left.
     
    Do you recall my advice about what to do when asked to denounce uncouth or embarrassing people on one's own team? You don't see me naming names, do you?

    Here is the corollary to that advice though - you cannot let such highly flawed and self-absorbed people hijack your movement either. They will drag you down with them. You don't have to denounce them (which only divides your team and emboldens the opposition), but you don't have to make them your de facto spokesmen either.

    Some people around here like to say that "whites should be more like the Jews/Israelis." Well, here is an Israeli thing for you - when the Haganah was trying to become a legitimate and recognized national military force of Israel (and eventually become the Israeli Defense Force), guess what one of the things (as distasteful as it might have been for many involved) it had to do first was?

    https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5gPp-6_PBLw/WwUpwKAgfjI/AAAAAAAAFko/K2FJslyI7OYz5pQgfJ_WN5HM3e2UpL9HACLcBGAs/s1600/000_SAPA980314325550.jpg

    It had to quell the hardliners such as the Irgun and Lehi and not allow the latter to hijack their larger goals.

    Or what did the IRA have to get a Irish Free State and eventually independence?

  73. @Twinkie
    @The Alarmist


    The 3-G’s, AE … Gold, guns, & ground.
     
    Nah. Medicine beats gold in tough times. You are going to want Cipro a lot more than gold coins. And guns are crucial indeed, but so is ammunition and the capacity to make it. Ground? Absolutely vital if you want to eat. The problem is, everybody will want that rich black soil. And you will need a community to defend it.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt, @dfordoom

    Nah. Medicine beats gold in tough times. You are going to want Cipro a lot more than gold coins.

    Yes, I agree with that.

  74. @V. K. Ovelund
    @dfordoom


    ... whether they can find a viable alternative candidate (maybe Ivanka?) ...
     
    Please, no. Anyone but Ivanka.

    Replies: @Talha, @dfordoom

    … whether they can find a viable alternative candidate (maybe Ivanka?) …

    Please, no. Anyone but Ivanka.

    I think the MAGA Hat Brigade would go for her. If The Donald is out of the running they’ll want a Trump to unite behind. Ivanka is the beloved leader’s beloved daughter. And she’d be the right age (43) to be presented as a young dynamic high-energy candidate.

    And Ivanka might be more acceptable to the GOPe.

    I’m not saying I want Ivanka, but I wouldn’t be altogether surprised if she became the Trumpist candidate.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @dfordoom


    I think the MAGA Hat Brigade would go for her.
     
    You clearly know no one in "the MAGA Hat Brigade."

    Ivanka is in no way popular with this demographic. In fact, even most inner associates of President Trump consider her a dim princess they have to indulge, so as not to irritate her father.

    Don Trump, Jr. is a far more popular figure among Trump loyalists than Ivanka is (or among Republicans in general). It's not Ivanka people are suggesting to replace Wayne LaPierre or Pat Toomey.
  75. @V. K. Ovelund
    @Twinkie

    I have closely read every word. The reply is appreciated.

    I do not think that it is for me (even pseudonymously) to criticize my dissident-right friends in public. Infighting is ludicrously counterproductive. My sole target is on the Left.

    On the other hand, facts are facts, nor are they less factual because you have observed them while I have denied them. Thus, your reply can stand without amplification or contradiction by me.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    I do not think that it is for me (even pseudonymously) to criticize my dissident-right friends in public. Infighting is ludicrously counterproductive. My sole target is on the Left.

    Do you recall my advice about what to do when asked to denounce uncouth or embarrassing people on one’s own team? You don’t see me naming names, do you?

    Here is the corollary to that advice though – you cannot let such highly flawed and self-absorbed people hijack your movement either. They will drag you down with them. You don’t have to denounce them (which only divides your team and emboldens the opposition), but you don’t have to make them your de facto spokesmen either.

    Some people around here like to say that “whites should be more like the Jews/Israelis.” Well, here is an Israeli thing for you – when the Haganah was trying to become a legitimate and recognized national military force of Israel (and eventually become the Israeli Defense Force), guess what one of the things (as distasteful as it might have been for many involved) it had to do first was?

    It had to quell the hardliners such as the Irgun and Lehi and not allow the latter to hijack their larger goals.

    Or what did the IRA have to get a Irish Free State and eventually independence?

    • Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
  76. @dfordoom
    @V. K. Ovelund



    … whether they can find a viable alternative candidate (maybe Ivanka?) …
     
    Please, no. Anyone but Ivanka.
     
    I think the MAGA Hat Brigade would go for her. If The Donald is out of the running they'll want a Trump to unite behind. Ivanka is the beloved leader's beloved daughter. And she'd be the right age (43) to be presented as a young dynamic high-energy candidate.

    And Ivanka might be more acceptable to the GOPe.

    I'm not saying I want Ivanka, but I wouldn't be altogether surprised if she became the Trumpist candidate.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    I think the MAGA Hat Brigade would go for her.

    You clearly know no one in “the MAGA Hat Brigade.”

    Ivanka is in no way popular with this demographic. In fact, even most inner associates of President Trump consider her a dim princess they have to indulge, so as not to irritate her father.

    Don Trump, Jr. is a far more popular figure among Trump loyalists than Ivanka is (or among Republicans in general). It’s not Ivanka people are suggesting to replace Wayne LaPierre or Pat Toomey.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  77. @Twinkie
    @V. K. Ovelund


    Dissident rightists have been egregiously badly treated. They have routinely been put under the proverbial magnifying glass at work—which, naturally, magnifies personal problems out of all just proportion, when what the rest of us really ought to be doing is minding our own damned business.
     
    Sure, but 1) several of the dissident rightists had these problems long before they were dissident rightist "leaders" under the spotlight and 2) if they really didn't want the negative liberal media spotlight, they didn't have to become self-appointed "leaders." As it were, they enjoy the attention, however negative it might be. And they then also play the victim card just like any other "Coalition of the Fringes" grifter. So in reality they are also fringe grifters.

    Fact of the matter is that when you seek leadership, the limelight, and the media attention, magnification of personal problems come with the territory. See Andrew Cuomo's latest troubles - and he was the liberal media's darling just a few months ago. You know the saying - if you want to act like a big boy, put on your big boy pants and don't whine.

    Nevertheless, your criticism rings true on the whole.
     
    This is what I see. Although most Americans are repelled by the hard racist stuff ("It's always the Jews!" or "white ethno-state!"), they are in the main sympathetic to much of what dissident rightists advocate (dismantling affirmative action, limiting immigration, critiquing and combating anti-white racism, reversing the valorization of blacks - the list goes on).

    Why then won't this broad agreement translate to substantive following? First, the hard racist stuff is hard to swallow for most people - enough Americans have family members, friends, neighbors, colleagues, relatives, and other people they care about who are of a difference race and won't tolerate people who call for some harsh measures against them (what I call the "gas oven" talk or the "day of the rope" talk). Even among blacks, who are statistically much more obsessed about their own race on average, most are opposed to harming whites (even if they incorrectly blame whites for their problems). And blacks are not even the majority or plurality of nonwhites in this country anymore and there are millions of whites whose kinship and social network is enmeshed with Asians and Hispanics.

    Second, in reality, most people don't follow ideas (notwithstanding neocons who are "not willing to die for their country or its people, but for free-trade"), they follow people whom they find admirable, attractive, and appealing - and especially those who they think care about people like themselves. An old saying in politics is, "people don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care."

    Among all these "dissident rightists" - and, let's be frank here, for most of them that's a self-described euphemism and they are, in reality, white supremacists or separatists - who claim to advocate for white people, how many of them actually have done things to help whites in distress? Have they laid a single brick to build a home for downscale whites? Have they set up any charity to help the white jobless? Have they lifted a finger to teach job/life skills to young impoverished whites? (Yes, yes, I know the objection already - "But you can't do white-only stuff! It's against the law!" - but you and I both know this can be bypassed pretty easily - you do "homebuilding for the rural homeless" in West Virginia and you are going to end up helping almost exclusively the poor whites).

    The reality is that these so-called dissident rightist leaders aren't real leaders working toward real solutions. Quite a few are just people with problems who can't hack it in ordinary life who get off on the mostly negative attention ("still attention!") and the sense of perceived martyrdom that comes within a very small circle of fringe people. So they LARP and pretend and pose for the media, but they do nothing of the real work it takes to mobilize, organize, and uplift the people for whom they purport to advocate. And most people can see that rather transparently and won't follow them.

    Just to be clear, they are not all losers. I know at least one "dissident leader" who lives close to me who is extraordinarily intelligent and financially successful. But he also doesn't live in private what he publicly preaches - in other words, he's projecting an image to a select audience that is not true. He is, as I put earlier, selling something.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @Luzzatto, @Talha

    White Supremacists are way too poor as a demographic group to successfully start their own Nordic Aryan racial-state. It would require trillions of dollars to start their own Nordic Aryan racial-state which is the type financial capital the White Supremacist demographic group just do not have.

    White Supremacists are not occupying any of the wealthiest majority White zip codes in The United States. White Supremacists are part of the White underclass ironically. The Whites who claim to be the most racially superior are the Whites who least have their financial shit together. And these White Supremacists blame the Jews for why they are stuck in dead end low paying jobs just like Blacks blame Whites for why they are stuck in dead end low paying jobs!

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @Luzzatto

    I do not grasp your point. It seems to be a mishmash of

       * gratuitous abuse directed at downscale whites,
       * slurs, and
       * media-propagated caricatures of white nationalists.

    It is not denied that whites abandoned by multicultural meritocracy are more likely than others to lend an ear to white nationalism, at least in the United States. What did you expect such whites to do? Hardly anyone but white nationalists lends an ear to them.

    I happen to be a licensed professional (not a brilliantly successful one, but nevertheless) with an advanced STEM degree and five children by one wife. I am also a white nationalist. If you wish to label me a white supremacist, why, history is a slaughterbench, so I don't mind; but don't you think that your theory ought to account for persons like me?

    White people have interests. If you disagree, please just say so, straight out. Don't skirt the point by abusing those among your fellow citizens who have already been the most badly abused.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @Luzzatto

    And these White Supremacists blame the Jews for why they are stuck in dead end low paying jobs just like Blacks blame Whites for why they are stuck in dead end low paying jobs!

    Indeed. And in the case of blacks, they're outnumbered 6-to-1 by whites. But white gentiles outnumber Jews 30-to-1!

  78. @Twinkie
    @V. K. Ovelund


    Dissident rightists have been egregiously badly treated. They have routinely been put under the proverbial magnifying glass at work—which, naturally, magnifies personal problems out of all just proportion, when what the rest of us really ought to be doing is minding our own damned business.
     
    Sure, but 1) several of the dissident rightists had these problems long before they were dissident rightist "leaders" under the spotlight and 2) if they really didn't want the negative liberal media spotlight, they didn't have to become self-appointed "leaders." As it were, they enjoy the attention, however negative it might be. And they then also play the victim card just like any other "Coalition of the Fringes" grifter. So in reality they are also fringe grifters.

    Fact of the matter is that when you seek leadership, the limelight, and the media attention, magnification of personal problems come with the territory. See Andrew Cuomo's latest troubles - and he was the liberal media's darling just a few months ago. You know the saying - if you want to act like a big boy, put on your big boy pants and don't whine.

    Nevertheless, your criticism rings true on the whole.
     
    This is what I see. Although most Americans are repelled by the hard racist stuff ("It's always the Jews!" or "white ethno-state!"), they are in the main sympathetic to much of what dissident rightists advocate (dismantling affirmative action, limiting immigration, critiquing and combating anti-white racism, reversing the valorization of blacks - the list goes on).

    Why then won't this broad agreement translate to substantive following? First, the hard racist stuff is hard to swallow for most people - enough Americans have family members, friends, neighbors, colleagues, relatives, and other people they care about who are of a difference race and won't tolerate people who call for some harsh measures against them (what I call the "gas oven" talk or the "day of the rope" talk). Even among blacks, who are statistically much more obsessed about their own race on average, most are opposed to harming whites (even if they incorrectly blame whites for their problems). And blacks are not even the majority or plurality of nonwhites in this country anymore and there are millions of whites whose kinship and social network is enmeshed with Asians and Hispanics.

    Second, in reality, most people don't follow ideas (notwithstanding neocons who are "not willing to die for their country or its people, but for free-trade"), they follow people whom they find admirable, attractive, and appealing - and especially those who they think care about people like themselves. An old saying in politics is, "people don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care."

    Among all these "dissident rightists" - and, let's be frank here, for most of them that's a self-described euphemism and they are, in reality, white supremacists or separatists - who claim to advocate for white people, how many of them actually have done things to help whites in distress? Have they laid a single brick to build a home for downscale whites? Have they set up any charity to help the white jobless? Have they lifted a finger to teach job/life skills to young impoverished whites? (Yes, yes, I know the objection already - "But you can't do white-only stuff! It's against the law!" - but you and I both know this can be bypassed pretty easily - you do "homebuilding for the rural homeless" in West Virginia and you are going to end up helping almost exclusively the poor whites).

    The reality is that these so-called dissident rightist leaders aren't real leaders working toward real solutions. Quite a few are just people with problems who can't hack it in ordinary life who get off on the mostly negative attention ("still attention!") and the sense of perceived martyrdom that comes within a very small circle of fringe people. So they LARP and pretend and pose for the media, but they do nothing of the real work it takes to mobilize, organize, and uplift the people for whom they purport to advocate. And most people can see that rather transparently and won't follow them.

    Just to be clear, they are not all losers. I know at least one "dissident leader" who lives close to me who is extraordinarily intelligent and financially successful. But he also doesn't live in private what he publicly preaches - in other words, he's projecting an image to a select audience that is not true. He is, as I put earlier, selling something.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @Luzzatto, @Talha

    Solid comment! Thanks! Lots of good points for people to ponder over.

    Peace.

  79. @Luzzatto
    @Twinkie

    White Supremacists are way too poor as a demographic group to successfully start their own Nordic Aryan racial-state. It would require trillions of dollars to start their own Nordic Aryan racial-state which is the type financial capital the White Supremacist demographic group just do not have.

    White Supremacists are not occupying any of the wealthiest majority White zip codes in The United States. White Supremacists are part of the White underclass ironically. The Whites who claim to be the most racially superior are the Whites who least have their financial shit together. And these White Supremacists blame the Jews for why they are stuck in dead end low paying jobs just like Blacks blame Whites for why they are stuck in dead end low paying jobs!

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @Audacious Epigone

    I do not grasp your point. It seems to be a mishmash of

       * gratuitous abuse directed at downscale whites,
       * slurs, and
       * media-propagated caricatures of white nationalists.

    It is not denied that whites abandoned by multicultural meritocracy are more likely than others to lend an ear to white nationalism, at least in the United States. What did you expect such whites to do? Hardly anyone but white nationalists lends an ear to them.

    I happen to be a licensed professional (not a brilliantly successful one, but nevertheless) with an advanced STEM degree and five children by one wife. I am also a white nationalist. If you wish to label me a white supremacist, why, history is a slaughterbench, so I don’t mind; but don’t you think that your theory ought to account for persons like me?

    White people have interests. If you disagree, please just say so, straight out. Don’t skirt the point by abusing those among your fellow citizens who have already been the most badly abused.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @V. K. Ovelund


    White people have interests.
     
    The problem is that different groups of white people have mutually incompatible competing interests. If you're saying that individual white people or groups of white people have interests then that is obviously true. But if you're suggesting that white people as a single coherent group have interests then I think you're mistaken.
  80. @Rosie

    all striking at a king without killing him.
     
    That is precisely what Trump did, and his supporters are paying the price.

    The subtext often is that sympathy should be had for the relatively diminished amount of direct power and influence these women had on account of being women in a patriarchal society, as though only having it better than 99.99% of their contemporaries instead of better than 99.999% of their contemporaries as their husbands and sons did is a historical outrage!
     
    AE, this is a rare but glaring logical error on your part. Privilege is not power, and it is correct to place the blame on those who actually have, as you say, "direct power and influence."

    Replies: @Boomthorkell, @Audacious Epigone

    Livia, wife of Augustus, had a lot of power. Much more than the modal man in Rome at the time, let alone male slaves. Of course, the modal man and the male slave had more power than the modal woman and female slave, too.

  81. @The Alarmist

    The task at hand now is to position yourself to come through that blow-off top in one piece.
     
    The 3-G’s, AE ... Gold, guns, & ground.

    BTW, the game of chess is instructive of the real rules of life: Pawns are for sacrifice, as are lesser nobels when it is necessary, but you always protect your queen, because she is the real power behind an otherwise impotent king.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @Twinkie, @Audacious Epigone

    It is funny how an ancient game like Chess gives the only female piece powers far surpassing that of every other piece on the board. The only piece she isn’t strictly better than is the knight.

  82. @V. K. Ovelund
    @Luzzatto

    I do not grasp your point. It seems to be a mishmash of

       * gratuitous abuse directed at downscale whites,
       * slurs, and
       * media-propagated caricatures of white nationalists.

    It is not denied that whites abandoned by multicultural meritocracy are more likely than others to lend an ear to white nationalism, at least in the United States. What did you expect such whites to do? Hardly anyone but white nationalists lends an ear to them.

    I happen to be a licensed professional (not a brilliantly successful one, but nevertheless) with an advanced STEM degree and five children by one wife. I am also a white nationalist. If you wish to label me a white supremacist, why, history is a slaughterbench, so I don't mind; but don't you think that your theory ought to account for persons like me?

    White people have interests. If you disagree, please just say so, straight out. Don't skirt the point by abusing those among your fellow citizens who have already been the most badly abused.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    White people have interests.

    The problem is that different groups of white people have mutually incompatible competing interests. If you’re saying that individual white people or groups of white people have interests then that is obviously true. But if you’re suggesting that white people as a single coherent group have interests then I think you’re mistaken.

  83. @Luzzatto
    @Twinkie

    White Supremacists are way too poor as a demographic group to successfully start their own Nordic Aryan racial-state. It would require trillions of dollars to start their own Nordic Aryan racial-state which is the type financial capital the White Supremacist demographic group just do not have.

    White Supremacists are not occupying any of the wealthiest majority White zip codes in The United States. White Supremacists are part of the White underclass ironically. The Whites who claim to be the most racially superior are the Whites who least have their financial shit together. And these White Supremacists blame the Jews for why they are stuck in dead end low paying jobs just like Blacks blame Whites for why they are stuck in dead end low paying jobs!

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @Audacious Epigone

    And these White Supremacists blame the Jews for why they are stuck in dead end low paying jobs just like Blacks blame Whites for why they are stuck in dead end low paying jobs!

    Indeed. And in the case of blacks, they’re outnumbered 6-to-1 by whites. But white gentiles outnumber Jews 30-to-1!

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