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Big business and the culture wars, a marriage made in heaven:

Forget Democratic Socialism, the arc of history bends towards Woke Capitalism:

 
• Category: Economics, Ideology • Tags: Homosexuality, Polling, Woke Capital 
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  1. Socialism for government connected big corps.

    • Agree: unit472
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @nebulafox

    Isn't that just fascism?

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Rosie, @216

  2. @nebulafox
    Socialism for government connected big corps.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Isn’t that just fascism?

    • Agree: dfordoom
    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Twinkie

    Non-serious answer: the fascists had much better aesthetics.

    Serious answer: When you think about it the emotionalized declassed mob control... it's not the best comparison, but it's also not the worst, either.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Rosie
    @Twinkie


    Isn’t that just fascism?
     
    No. Fascism is colpectivist, state nationalism. It emphasizes national unity, security, and sovereignty. Few people understand this term, because it isn't properly taught, even to students of political philosophy, for fear that it makes too much sense.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Not only wrathful

    , @216
    @Twinkie

    The better term is "cronyism". Or "rentier socialism".

    Another term is "Dirigisme", which has no clear English translation.

    Leftists would prefer "state capitalism".

    XX century fascist movements were not concerned with economics as separate from militarism.

    In the XXI century, only the DPRK has pursued policies emphasizing military power as preferred to household consumption.

    Can you have a "democratic socialism" where an opposition party that wants to dismantle socialism can win office?

    Can you have a "constitutional fascism", given the historic opposition of fascism towards proceduralism?

  3. @Twinkie
    @nebulafox

    Isn't that just fascism?

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Rosie, @216

    Non-serious answer: the fascists had much better aesthetics.

    Serious answer: When you think about it the emotionalized declassed mob control… it’s not the best comparison, but it’s also not the worst, either.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @nebulafox


    the fascists had much better aesthetics.
     
    You made me laugh. Agreed, agreed! Well, okay. Post-modern fascists, then.

    For that matter, I think the post-modern CCP is also more fascist than communist, wouldn't you say?

    Who's the guy who said there are only two kinds of fascists - fascists and anti-fascists?

    Replies: @nebulafox, @nebulafox

  4. About a year or two ago Johnson & Johnson ran a commercial with a gay romance. They went directly from babies to vaccine research for gay diseases and touted the change as an improvement. Some say it was because the big scandal about baby powder causing cancer – makes sense.

    Anyway, it was the most decadent thing I ever saw, and I’m still shocked by it, even though I’ve seen some really shocking commercials.

  5. @Twinkie
    @nebulafox

    Isn't that just fascism?

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Rosie, @216

    Isn’t that just fascism?

    No. Fascism is colpectivist, state nationalism. It emphasizes national unity, security, and sovereignty. Few people understand this term, because it isn’t properly taught, even to students of political philosophy, for fear that it makes too much sense.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Rosie

    Daddy is talking with his friend. Go color with your crayons.

    Replies: @Rosie, @Audacious Epigone

    , @Not only wrathful
    @Rosie


    No. Fascism is colpectivist, state nationalism. It emphasizes national unity, security, and sovereignty.
     
    Yes, if you believe the propaganda. In reality, it is simply yet another excuse to project the parts of yourself you can't come to terms with onto other people.

    In turn, this leads to the opposite of the aims. Every time.

    When I look at avowedly fascist regimes, I see no "national unity", no "security" and no respect for "sovereignty".

    " Oh, but it was everybody else's fault!"

    Yes, well isn't it always....

    Lol

    People never learn (on what I perceive to be a reasonable timescale)
  6. @nebulafox
    @Twinkie

    Non-serious answer: the fascists had much better aesthetics.

    Serious answer: When you think about it the emotionalized declassed mob control... it's not the best comparison, but it's also not the worst, either.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    the fascists had much better aesthetics.

    You made me laugh. Agreed, agreed! Well, okay. Post-modern fascists, then.

    For that matter, I think the post-modern CCP is also more fascist than communist, wouldn’t you say?

    Who’s the guy who said there are only two kinds of fascists – fascists and anti-fascists?

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Twinkie

    Heheheh. I'm reminded of a quote from Joachim Fest's biography of Hitler: "But was he any the less an easily depressed artist personality who the circumstances of the times, coupled with a monstrous special gifts, propelled him into a role that he was never intended?" Fascism-and Nazism in particular-was, in many ways, replacing aesthetics for politics. I'm not suggesting they are fascists, but there is a similarity in how our own elites have replaced moralizing and symbolism for practical policy making. Both are, to some degree, a rejection of the real world.

    Contemporary China is in many ways akin to what Chiang Kai-Shek (it's no accident that the KMT getup in the 1930s was all German, given their ties to the Reich) wanted: nationalist, authoritarian, "state capitalist", moderately socially conservative. I'm not sure I'd label him a fascist in the Mussolini/Hitler sense, but fascistic vibes, at least. So, yeah, fascistic vibes in some ways. Of course, the CCP treats race in a way that you'll find no white country doing, even Russia or Israel: even before the repression in Xinjiang got ratcheted up, people tend to underestimate how rampant racism (the real stuff, not the SJW nonsense) against Turkics was in China...

    However, one also shouldn't underrate the role Marxism plays in Xi's world-view, which had its formation as someone sent to the countryside during the CR. He definitely believes the the future can be deduced via deterministic laws. So, the Communism is there, just not economically. They still believe that a Marxist end-state is coming, just probably not in any of our lifetimes.

    (That's one of the CCP's two big weaknesses: as Tanner Greer says, the CCP is really not prepared for a scenario where Xi read the tea leaves wrong, which is inevitable if, like me, you believe that's not how the future works. The other is that they are still very bad at understanding how to fully utilize soft power, not that this is of any use given current leadership in the US. Though there's no reason this will last forever as they get more practice.)

    One thing that Xi is doing differently from his predecessors is the degree of centralization, IMO. Even before the economic reforms, which hinged on the ability of different party branches to figure out industrlaization plans, the CCP could have surprisingly decentralized tendencies underneath the surface: the most horrific stuff in the Cultural Revolution took place in Guangxi, up to and including cannibalism sponsored by local bigshots in the party, and the consensus seems to be that it was mostly said local bosses settling scores rather than anything top-down. Think more Indonesia 1966 and less Russia 1937.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @anonymous, @iffen

    , @nebulafox
    @Twinkie

    I think there is one big difference: no matter how willing Hitler or Mussolini would have been willing to engage in give and take with the heads of the private sector, there was never any question of their supreme dominance in political affairs, whereas in the modern US, it is genuinely questionable who does exert more political authority, with a compelling case to be made for the private sector. Networked corporations are not an arm of the state, but the brain.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/johnrobb/status/1385221796165824521


    As Jack Ma's experience shows, the PRC leans more toward the former model.

    There was also a fundamentally revolutionary quality to fascism that isn't necessarily synonymous with far-right, militaristic government. Imperial Japan is a great counterexample of what happened when old elites retained some take rather than accepting subordinate status as in Germany or Italy. Actual fascists got shot in 1930s Japan as subversives.

    BTW, during the 1930s, Chiang (who probably killed more people by flood than the Japanese did when they sacked Nanjing) really did have a stronger fascistic streak than I gave him credit for. DDG the New Life Movement. These kinds of campaigns to regulate private behavior and form new ideologically correct citizens, in image of the Commies, are key indicators of fascism vs. standard authoritarianism. It can get blurry-again, I do not consider 30s Japan fascist , and they did plenty of this stuff-but there you go.

  7. The rainbow flag should be banned from all areas that white progressives inhabit, just as alcoholic spirits are banned from many Amerind reservations.

    Progs crave two things with a burning passion: free sexual license and some form of skin-color signaling. Give them those two things, and they will lose their minds, and burn down their own habitations in their ecstasy.

    • Replies: @Caspar von Everec
    @songbird

    Just cancel their netflix. They'll be committing mass harikiri within the week

    Replies: @songbird

  8. @Twinkie
    @nebulafox


    the fascists had much better aesthetics.
     
    You made me laugh. Agreed, agreed! Well, okay. Post-modern fascists, then.

    For that matter, I think the post-modern CCP is also more fascist than communist, wouldn't you say?

    Who's the guy who said there are only two kinds of fascists - fascists and anti-fascists?

    Replies: @nebulafox, @nebulafox

    Heheheh. I’m reminded of a quote from Joachim Fest’s biography of Hitler: “But was he any the less an easily depressed artist personality who the circumstances of the times, coupled with a monstrous special gifts, propelled him into a role that he was never intended?” Fascism-and Nazism in particular-was, in many ways, replacing aesthetics for politics. I’m not suggesting they are fascists, but there is a similarity in how our own elites have replaced moralizing and symbolism for practical policy making. Both are, to some degree, a rejection of the real world.

    Contemporary China is in many ways akin to what Chiang Kai-Shek (it’s no accident that the KMT getup in the 1930s was all German, given their ties to the Reich) wanted: nationalist, authoritarian, “state capitalist”, moderately socially conservative. I’m not sure I’d label him a fascist in the Mussolini/Hitler sense, but fascistic vibes, at least. So, yeah, fascistic vibes in some ways. Of course, the CCP treats race in a way that you’ll find no white country doing, even Russia or Israel: even before the repression in Xinjiang got ratcheted up, people tend to underestimate how rampant racism (the real stuff, not the SJW nonsense) against Turkics was in China…

    However, one also shouldn’t underrate the role Marxism plays in Xi’s world-view, which had its formation as someone sent to the countryside during the CR. He definitely believes the the future can be deduced via deterministic laws. So, the Communism is there, just not economically. They still believe that a Marxist end-state is coming, just probably not in any of our lifetimes.

    (That’s one of the CCP’s two big weaknesses: as Tanner Greer says, the CCP is really not prepared for a scenario where Xi read the tea leaves wrong, which is inevitable if, like me, you believe that’s not how the future works. The other is that they are still very bad at understanding how to fully utilize soft power, not that this is of any use given current leadership in the US. Though there’s no reason this will last forever as they get more practice.)

    One thing that Xi is doing differently from his predecessors is the degree of centralization, IMO. Even before the economic reforms, which hinged on the ability of different party branches to figure out industrlaization plans, the CCP could have surprisingly decentralized tendencies underneath the surface: the most horrific stuff in the Cultural Revolution took place in Guangxi, up to and including cannibalism sponsored by local bigshots in the party, and the consensus seems to be that it was mostly said local bosses settling scores rather than anything top-down. Think more Indonesia 1966 and less Russia 1937.

    • Thanks: Twinkie
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @nebulafox


    Fascism-and Nazism in particular-was, in many ways, replacing aesthetics for politics. I’m not suggesting they are fascists, but there is a similarity in how our own elites have replaced moralizing and symbolism for practical policy making. Both are, to some degree, a rejection of the real world.
     
    You just described Fascist-Nazi industrial (and military-industrial) policy in Germany and Italy.

    However, one also shouldn’t underrate the role Marxism plays in Xi’s world-view, which had its formation as someone sent to the countryside during the CR. He definitely believes the the future can be deduced via deterministic laws.
     
    It all ended in tears for all concerned, but it should be pointed out that the communists vastly outproduced the fascists (not least in armaments) before and during World War II.
    , @anonymous
    @nebulafox


    even before the repression in Xinjiang got ratcheted up, people tend to underestimate how rampant racism (the real stuff, not the SJW nonsense) against Turkics was in China…
     
    Do you have first hand impressions of this? From my own observations in international orientated bars and clubs in Beijing, one group I kept on bumping into were Uighur college girls, speaking good English, out for a drink. It gave me the speculative impression that educated Uighurs find the rest of China can be an escape hatch from a stifling Muslim society. In Northern Ireland, during the 1970s height of the Troubles, the Catholic university students were noticeably missing from the nationalist cause. They liked the outer world opened up by the UK and the Catholic ghetto was dreary. I think that dynamic is going on with Uighurs. This is not to say that the Uighurs living in Beijing aren't on guard about government surveillance.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @nebulafox

    , @iffen
    @nebulafox

    understanding how to fully utilize soft power

    Well, they have pawn in place as the U. S. Ambassador to the U. N. I say that's pretty good work.

  9. @Rosie
    @Twinkie


    Isn’t that just fascism?
     
    No. Fascism is colpectivist, state nationalism. It emphasizes national unity, security, and sovereignty. Few people understand this term, because it isn't properly taught, even to students of political philosophy, for fear that it makes too much sense.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Not only wrathful

    Daddy is talking with his friend. Go color with your crayons.

    • LOL: 216
    • Replies: @Rosie
    @Twinkie


    Daddy is talking with his friend.
     
    Eeeewwww gross!

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @Twinkie

    Is she incorrect? One major difference between corporatism--which is closer to what I think we have--and fascism is in the aesthetics. Not in terms of rather trivial things like architecture and uniforms, but in terms of what the power centers push on the population.

  10. @nebulafox
    @Twinkie

    Heheheh. I'm reminded of a quote from Joachim Fest's biography of Hitler: "But was he any the less an easily depressed artist personality who the circumstances of the times, coupled with a monstrous special gifts, propelled him into a role that he was never intended?" Fascism-and Nazism in particular-was, in many ways, replacing aesthetics for politics. I'm not suggesting they are fascists, but there is a similarity in how our own elites have replaced moralizing and symbolism for practical policy making. Both are, to some degree, a rejection of the real world.

    Contemporary China is in many ways akin to what Chiang Kai-Shek (it's no accident that the KMT getup in the 1930s was all German, given their ties to the Reich) wanted: nationalist, authoritarian, "state capitalist", moderately socially conservative. I'm not sure I'd label him a fascist in the Mussolini/Hitler sense, but fascistic vibes, at least. So, yeah, fascistic vibes in some ways. Of course, the CCP treats race in a way that you'll find no white country doing, even Russia or Israel: even before the repression in Xinjiang got ratcheted up, people tend to underestimate how rampant racism (the real stuff, not the SJW nonsense) against Turkics was in China...

    However, one also shouldn't underrate the role Marxism plays in Xi's world-view, which had its formation as someone sent to the countryside during the CR. He definitely believes the the future can be deduced via deterministic laws. So, the Communism is there, just not economically. They still believe that a Marxist end-state is coming, just probably not in any of our lifetimes.

    (That's one of the CCP's two big weaknesses: as Tanner Greer says, the CCP is really not prepared for a scenario where Xi read the tea leaves wrong, which is inevitable if, like me, you believe that's not how the future works. The other is that they are still very bad at understanding how to fully utilize soft power, not that this is of any use given current leadership in the US. Though there's no reason this will last forever as they get more practice.)

    One thing that Xi is doing differently from his predecessors is the degree of centralization, IMO. Even before the economic reforms, which hinged on the ability of different party branches to figure out industrlaization plans, the CCP could have surprisingly decentralized tendencies underneath the surface: the most horrific stuff in the Cultural Revolution took place in Guangxi, up to and including cannibalism sponsored by local bigshots in the party, and the consensus seems to be that it was mostly said local bosses settling scores rather than anything top-down. Think more Indonesia 1966 and less Russia 1937.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @anonymous, @iffen

    Fascism-and Nazism in particular-was, in many ways, replacing aesthetics for politics. I’m not suggesting they are fascists, but there is a similarity in how our own elites have replaced moralizing and symbolism for practical policy making. Both are, to some degree, a rejection of the real world.

    You just described Fascist-Nazi industrial (and military-industrial) policy in Germany and Italy.

    However, one also shouldn’t underrate the role Marxism plays in Xi’s world-view, which had its formation as someone sent to the countryside during the CR. He definitely believes the the future can be deduced via deterministic laws.

    It all ended in tears for all concerned, but it should be pointed out that the communists vastly outproduced the fascists (not least in armaments) before and during World War II.

  11. anonymous[242] • Disclaimer says:
    @nebulafox
    @Twinkie

    Heheheh. I'm reminded of a quote from Joachim Fest's biography of Hitler: "But was he any the less an easily depressed artist personality who the circumstances of the times, coupled with a monstrous special gifts, propelled him into a role that he was never intended?" Fascism-and Nazism in particular-was, in many ways, replacing aesthetics for politics. I'm not suggesting they are fascists, but there is a similarity in how our own elites have replaced moralizing and symbolism for practical policy making. Both are, to some degree, a rejection of the real world.

    Contemporary China is in many ways akin to what Chiang Kai-Shek (it's no accident that the KMT getup in the 1930s was all German, given their ties to the Reich) wanted: nationalist, authoritarian, "state capitalist", moderately socially conservative. I'm not sure I'd label him a fascist in the Mussolini/Hitler sense, but fascistic vibes, at least. So, yeah, fascistic vibes in some ways. Of course, the CCP treats race in a way that you'll find no white country doing, even Russia or Israel: even before the repression in Xinjiang got ratcheted up, people tend to underestimate how rampant racism (the real stuff, not the SJW nonsense) against Turkics was in China...

    However, one also shouldn't underrate the role Marxism plays in Xi's world-view, which had its formation as someone sent to the countryside during the CR. He definitely believes the the future can be deduced via deterministic laws. So, the Communism is there, just not economically. They still believe that a Marxist end-state is coming, just probably not in any of our lifetimes.

    (That's one of the CCP's two big weaknesses: as Tanner Greer says, the CCP is really not prepared for a scenario where Xi read the tea leaves wrong, which is inevitable if, like me, you believe that's not how the future works. The other is that they are still very bad at understanding how to fully utilize soft power, not that this is of any use given current leadership in the US. Though there's no reason this will last forever as they get more practice.)

    One thing that Xi is doing differently from his predecessors is the degree of centralization, IMO. Even before the economic reforms, which hinged on the ability of different party branches to figure out industrlaization plans, the CCP could have surprisingly decentralized tendencies underneath the surface: the most horrific stuff in the Cultural Revolution took place in Guangxi, up to and including cannibalism sponsored by local bigshots in the party, and the consensus seems to be that it was mostly said local bosses settling scores rather than anything top-down. Think more Indonesia 1966 and less Russia 1937.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @anonymous, @iffen

    even before the repression in Xinjiang got ratcheted up, people tend to underestimate how rampant racism (the real stuff, not the SJW nonsense) against Turkics was in China…

    Do you have first hand impressions of this? From my own observations in international orientated bars and clubs in Beijing, one group I kept on bumping into were Uighur college girls, speaking good English, out for a drink. It gave me the speculative impression that educated Uighurs find the rest of China can be an escape hatch from a stifling Muslim society. In Northern Ireland, during the 1970s height of the Troubles, the Catholic university students were noticeably missing from the nationalist cause. They liked the outer world opened up by the UK and the Catholic ghetto was dreary. I think that dynamic is going on with Uighurs. This is not to say that the Uighurs living in Beijing aren’t on guard about government surveillance.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @anonymous


    It gave me the speculative impression that educated Uighurs find the rest of China can be an escape hatch from a stifling Muslim society.
     
    This is not uncommon in empires.

    Park Chung-Hee, the former South Korean general who took power and initiated the economic miracle, is said to have rued thusly when a young man:

    Extremely intelligent, egotistic and ambitious, Park's hero from his boyhood on was Napoleon, and he frequently expressed much disgust that he had to grow up in the poor and backward countryside of Korea, a place that was not suitable for someone like himself.[9] Those who knew Park as a youth recalled that a recurring theme of his remarks was his wish to "escape" from the Korean countryside.[9] As someone who had grown up under Japanese rule, Park often expressed his admiration for Japan's rapid modernization after the Meiji Restoration of 1867 and for Bushido ("the way of the warrior"), the Japanese warrior code.[9]
     
    Before Korea gained independence, Park served as an army officer for the Japanese puppet-state of Manchukuo. He did escape the backward Korean countryside after all.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    , @nebulafox
    @anonymous

    Yeah, I saw the same thing: and to be honest, if I myself were Uighur, that'd probably would have been me, trying to join mainstream Han society and escape the Muslim ghetto. But I'm under no illusions about confusing upwardly mobile 20-somethings who represented the intellectual cream of a given society for a majority of people. Nor, it should be stressed, is the threat of Islamic inspired separatist radicalism a figment of Beijing's imagination, to be fair to them.

    Problem is... that's not most Uighurs, who have a very long and ugly relationship with the Chinese government over attempts to "civilize" them or swarm them with Han settlers, going back well before 1949. It's only been recently that Han settlers have managed to stay put: previous attempts saw them all try to return. (It's *really* fascinating history, Xinjiangnese history: the first CIA officer on the wall in Langley was killed in Xinjiang. Soviet invasions, warlords, the distinction between loyalty to the dynasty clashing with the new Republic of China, late Qing indigenous revolts... it really is.)

    Even pre-2009, you could outright be denied a hotel room if you were a Uighur, particularly a single Uighur man. It's not like I've got some huge moral issue with this kind of stuff: at risk of sounding like a gigantic asshole, it's not my society, so it isn't my problem. I just don't want to hear lectures about "black bodies" from people who take money from the CCP, because I know full well how far from the bottom on race America really is.

    Replies: @anonymous

  12. @anonymous
    @nebulafox


    even before the repression in Xinjiang got ratcheted up, people tend to underestimate how rampant racism (the real stuff, not the SJW nonsense) against Turkics was in China…
     
    Do you have first hand impressions of this? From my own observations in international orientated bars and clubs in Beijing, one group I kept on bumping into were Uighur college girls, speaking good English, out for a drink. It gave me the speculative impression that educated Uighurs find the rest of China can be an escape hatch from a stifling Muslim society. In Northern Ireland, during the 1970s height of the Troubles, the Catholic university students were noticeably missing from the nationalist cause. They liked the outer world opened up by the UK and the Catholic ghetto was dreary. I think that dynamic is going on with Uighurs. This is not to say that the Uighurs living in Beijing aren't on guard about government surveillance.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @nebulafox

    It gave me the speculative impression that educated Uighurs find the rest of China can be an escape hatch from a stifling Muslim society.

    This is not uncommon in empires.

    Park Chung-Hee, the former South Korean general who took power and initiated the economic miracle, is said to have rued thusly when a young man:

    Extremely intelligent, egotistic and ambitious, Park’s hero from his boyhood on was Napoleon, and he frequently expressed much disgust that he had to grow up in the poor and backward countryside of Korea, a place that was not suitable for someone like himself.[9] Those who knew Park as a youth recalled that a recurring theme of his remarks was his wish to “escape” from the Korean countryside.[9] As someone who had grown up under Japanese rule, Park often expressed his admiration for Japan’s rapid modernization after the Meiji Restoration of 1867 and for Bushido (“the way of the warrior”), the Japanese warrior code.[9]

    Before Korea gained independence, Park served as an army officer for the Japanese puppet-state of Manchukuo. He did escape the backward Korean countryside after all.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Twinkie

    This sentiment is something I can emotionally relate to from my own childhood. I still can, to a certain extent. Nothing gives me homicidal thoughts quicker than any sort of vague implication from "cloud Americans" that I should know my place and accept a boring, quiet life, trapped and nodding along.

    But the thing that's given me second thoughts is the realization that my family will die for me, and I for them, no matter who we are or what we believe. A greater contrast to the largely transactional relationships of professional America cannot be envisioned.

  13. @Twinkie
    @Rosie

    Daddy is talking with his friend. Go color with your crayons.

    Replies: @Rosie, @Audacious Epigone

    Daddy is talking with his friend.

    Eeeewwww gross!

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Rosie

    If you keep interrupting the adults, I will spank you. Now go play with your stuffed animals.

    Replies: @Rosie, @Citizen of a Silly Country

  14. @Rosie
    @Twinkie


    Daddy is talking with his friend.
     
    Eeeewwww gross!

    Replies: @Twinkie

    If you keep interrupting the adults, I will spank you. Now go play with your stuffed animals.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    @Twinkie


    If you keep interrupting the adults, I will spank you. Now go play with your stuffed animals.
     
    Hey, Twinkles, I have a thought experiment for you. The other day, you told me that I shouldn't worry about a future for White children because Whites will remain a powerful plurality until my grandchildren are dead. Suppose I could travel to the future and fetch my grandchildren when they’re my age and bring them back for a little tete a tete with Twinkles. What would you say to them?

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @Twinkie

    Yes, the adults whose colorblind CivNat strategy has done nothing to stop the other side from bringing my people - Whites - to our knees.

    Bang up job, adults.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Twinkie

  15. @Twinkie
    @Rosie

    If you keep interrupting the adults, I will spank you. Now go play with your stuffed animals.

    Replies: @Rosie, @Citizen of a Silly Country

    If you keep interrupting the adults, I will spank you. Now go play with your stuffed animals.

    Hey, Twinkles, I have a thought experiment for you. The other day, you told me that I shouldn’t worry about a future for White children because Whites will remain a powerful plurality until my grandchildren are dead. Suppose I could travel to the future and fetch my grandchildren when they’re my age and bring them back for a little tete a tete with Twinkles. What would you say to them?

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Rosie

    You silly girl. There is no time travel necessary. If God grants me a long life, I will get to talk to my own grandchildren at least some of who will be mostly white and look like this:

    https://www.sheknows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/pduaepou0byloig0futu.jpeg

    Now go read some Dr. Seuss and stop pestering the adults.

    Replies: @Greta Handel

  16. Big business and the culture wars, a marriage made in heaven….

    I must say, I never saw the marriage coming. I still do not understand it, but at least I can recognize my foes when they act as such.

    One remains skeptical that big business constituted a coherent class, but big business has been doing its best recently persuade me that it just might constitute that.

    A significant number of small businessmen, employers each of ten to 100, are known to me, plus one who employs about 300; but I know no big businessmen. Not one. I do not actually know what those people are like.

    Some of the small businessmen of my acquaintance are admittedly a little like that, but only a little. Most are not at all.

    As to the bigs and their attitudes, I don’t get it.

    • Replies: @Greta Handel
    @V. K. Ovelund


    I know no big businessmen. Not one. I do not actually know what those people are like.
     
    Well, they’re like politicians — weathervanes, who turn with the slightest breeze. Some are outright sociopaths, but generally they’re the people whose aspirations to money and power overwhelm whatever principles they might have. Most have nothing against you except to the extent you’re in the way, and care nothing for you other than as a stepping stone.

    When people realize this, they will stop dealing with either.

    , @Wency
    @V. K. Ovelund

    My experience with actual top corporate leadership has been limited outside of extremely formal contexts, but I went to a reasonably elite MBA school, and most of my classmates went on to corporate work. None are CEOs of Fortune 500 companies yet (I follow practically the whole class on LinkedIn), but I believe some are on that path. There are some CFOs and COOs of smaller public companies now, and some have been promoted to impressive-sounding titles within middle management at various megacorps.

    My sense of this class of person is that most of them have a fairly high IQ, but they're intellectually incurious, mostly inclined to ask one question and one question only: "How is a successful businessman expected to comport himself?" and then mirror that personality as best as they can. I'll also say they seemed to be the type of person who, at least in that stage of life, was drawn to centers of money and power, whose eyes glimmered at the bright lights of places like NYC. I already knew at that age that I wanted to be as far away from places like NYC as possible.

    I met several people who had more mental horsepower than I did, but no one who was nearly as curious about the world as I was (or at least no one who was prepared to admit it). We never even talked politics, though admittedly the Great A-Wokening was just getting underway then. The culture was very surface-level, very dedicated to "Rolodex-building" as the old-timers say, so you wanted to have fun with people, not alienate them with controversy. This is unlike undergrad, where many of us were curious about the world and would get into deep conversations and debates outside class, maybe even engaging the professor outside class. In MBA school, unlike undergrad, everyone generally assumed the profs had little to teach them since they're academics and not businesspeople.

    Though again, maybe a lot of that was stage of life. Some of these people might have been more curious as undergrads, and maybe after MBA school they matured in a different direction. But I never really lost my curiosity, which might be part of what makes fatherhood so enjoyable. Sometimes I can relate better to kids and their 10,000 questions than all the adults who stopped asking any.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @anon, @Mark G., @V. K. Ovelund

  17. @Rosie
    @Twinkie


    If you keep interrupting the adults, I will spank you. Now go play with your stuffed animals.
     
    Hey, Twinkles, I have a thought experiment for you. The other day, you told me that I shouldn't worry about a future for White children because Whites will remain a powerful plurality until my grandchildren are dead. Suppose I could travel to the future and fetch my grandchildren when they’re my age and bring them back for a little tete a tete with Twinkles. What would you say to them?

    Replies: @Twinkie

    You silly girl. There is no time travel necessary. If God grants me a long life, I will get to talk to my own grandchildren at least some of who will be mostly white and look like this:

    Now go read some Dr. Seuss and stop pestering the adults.

    • Replies: @Greta Handel
    @Twinkie

    This extended exchange is a good example of “real handles” in contrast to commenter anonymity degrading the website, something I predicted before and upon being “nudged” by Mr. Unz to adopt a pseudonym. (IIRC, this author/moderator may prohibit anonymous comments altogether.)

    Would Rosie’s initial comment upthread have been substantially addressed by Twinkie if posted by someone else?

    Replies: @Twinkie

  18. @V. K. Ovelund

    Big business and the culture wars, a marriage made in heaven....
     
    I must say, I never saw the marriage coming. I still do not understand it, but at least I can recognize my foes when they act as such.

    One remains skeptical that big business constituted a coherent class, but big business has been doing its best recently persuade me that it just might constitute that.

    A significant number of small businessmen, employers each of ten to 100, are known to me, plus one who employs about 300; but I know no big businessmen. Not one. I do not actually know what those people are like.

    Some of the small businessmen of my acquaintance are admittedly a little like that, but only a little. Most are not at all.

    As to the bigs and their attitudes, I don't get it.

    Replies: @Greta Handel, @Wency

    I know no big businessmen. Not one. I do not actually know what those people are like.

    Well, they’re like politicians — weathervanes, who turn with the slightest breeze. Some are outright sociopaths, but generally they’re the people whose aspirations to money and power overwhelm whatever principles they might have. Most have nothing against you except to the extent you’re in the way, and care nothing for you other than as a stepping stone.

    When people realize this, they will stop dealing with either.

  19. @nebulafox
    @Twinkie

    Heheheh. I'm reminded of a quote from Joachim Fest's biography of Hitler: "But was he any the less an easily depressed artist personality who the circumstances of the times, coupled with a monstrous special gifts, propelled him into a role that he was never intended?" Fascism-and Nazism in particular-was, in many ways, replacing aesthetics for politics. I'm not suggesting they are fascists, but there is a similarity in how our own elites have replaced moralizing and symbolism for practical policy making. Both are, to some degree, a rejection of the real world.

    Contemporary China is in many ways akin to what Chiang Kai-Shek (it's no accident that the KMT getup in the 1930s was all German, given their ties to the Reich) wanted: nationalist, authoritarian, "state capitalist", moderately socially conservative. I'm not sure I'd label him a fascist in the Mussolini/Hitler sense, but fascistic vibes, at least. So, yeah, fascistic vibes in some ways. Of course, the CCP treats race in a way that you'll find no white country doing, even Russia or Israel: even before the repression in Xinjiang got ratcheted up, people tend to underestimate how rampant racism (the real stuff, not the SJW nonsense) against Turkics was in China...

    However, one also shouldn't underrate the role Marxism plays in Xi's world-view, which had its formation as someone sent to the countryside during the CR. He definitely believes the the future can be deduced via deterministic laws. So, the Communism is there, just not economically. They still believe that a Marxist end-state is coming, just probably not in any of our lifetimes.

    (That's one of the CCP's two big weaknesses: as Tanner Greer says, the CCP is really not prepared for a scenario where Xi read the tea leaves wrong, which is inevitable if, like me, you believe that's not how the future works. The other is that they are still very bad at understanding how to fully utilize soft power, not that this is of any use given current leadership in the US. Though there's no reason this will last forever as they get more practice.)

    One thing that Xi is doing differently from his predecessors is the degree of centralization, IMO. Even before the economic reforms, which hinged on the ability of different party branches to figure out industrlaization plans, the CCP could have surprisingly decentralized tendencies underneath the surface: the most horrific stuff in the Cultural Revolution took place in Guangxi, up to and including cannibalism sponsored by local bigshots in the party, and the consensus seems to be that it was mostly said local bosses settling scores rather than anything top-down. Think more Indonesia 1966 and less Russia 1937.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @anonymous, @iffen

    understanding how to fully utilize soft power

    Well, they have pawn in place as the U. S. Ambassador to the U. N. I say that’s pretty good work.

  20. @Twinkie
    @Rosie

    You silly girl. There is no time travel necessary. If God grants me a long life, I will get to talk to my own grandchildren at least some of who will be mostly white and look like this:

    https://www.sheknows.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/pduaepou0byloig0futu.jpeg

    Now go read some Dr. Seuss and stop pestering the adults.

    Replies: @Greta Handel

    This extended exchange is a good example of “real handles” in contrast to commenter anonymity degrading the website, something I predicted before and upon being “nudged” by Mr. Unz to adopt a pseudonym. (IIRC, this author/moderator may prohibit anonymous comments altogether.)

    Would Rosie’s initial comment upthread have been substantially addressed by Twinkie if posted by someone else?

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Greta Handel


    Would Rosie’s initial comment upthread have been substantially addressed by Twinkie if posted by someone else?
     
    Yes.

    Replies: @Greta Handel

  21. Woke Capitalism

    The guy on the internet who started talking about World War Tranny before most others has noticed the Ruling Class’s use of distractionary and deflective propaganda and political messaging to cover up the concentration of wealth and power in Weimar America.

    Guy on the internet named Steve Sailer in 2017:

    Similarly, the U.S. media has in recent years been more interested in topics such as transgender rights than in former staples of debate, such as the need for anti-monopoly enforcement.

    https://www.takimag.com/article/the_emperors_new_ads_steve_sailer/#ixzz4xCeL3AAS

    I responded to Sailer thusly in 2017:

    BINGO

    The corrupt corporate propaganda apparatus distracts the American people with nonsense issues like gay marriage and World War Tranny to cover up the corrupt shenanigans of the ruling class. Mass immigration, globalization, financialization, foreign policy fiascos and more are downplayed while the bullshit stuff is endlessly talked about.

    Local papers do the same thing when they never cover the harmful consequences of refugee resettlement. The local newspapers only cover the fluff that don’t mean a damn thing.

    Sam Francis, or somebody else, said it was a matter of the corporate media “selling the public a fake America, so the shady goons can steal the real one.” That sounds like what Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates and Carlos Slim are doing.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/sailer-in-takis-the-emperors-new-ads/#comment-2060806

  22. Some guy on the internet named Mr. Epigone has been doing good Sailer-type work noticing the so-called “Woke” plutocrats and globalizers using rancid propaganda to cover up their pestilential plundering of the world.

    I responded to a blog post of Mr. Epigone’s titled “Wokeness as a Civilizational Autoimmune Disorder?” in October of 2019:

    There are no more business cycles anymore beyond certain reactions to asset bubbles caused by monetary extremism and monetary interventionism. Volcker went 20 percent federal funds rate in 1981 and that set the scene for the debt bomb of all debt bombs and the three big asset bubbles. The current asset bubble number three is bigger than the previous two, and when it implodes, ruling classes all over the globe will be removed rather quickly.

    Economic cycles of debt and economic cycles that metaphorically correspond to biological fluctuations could be related to generational cohorts and the like.

    The globalized plutocrats and the upper middle class and large numbers of government workers are using the distractionary nonsense of so-called racism and sexism and anti-Semitism and the squalid stuff to block any attempt at a systematic popular understanding of the civilizational destructiveness of globalization and financialization and mass immigration and multicultural mayhem and corruption.

    The corporate propaganda apparatus — TV and internet and movies and newspapers and radio and the like — must be targeted for a much needed legal obliteration through trust busting and license revocation.

    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/wokeness-as-a-civilizational-autoimmune-disorder/#comment-3523118

    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
  23. Weimar Germany gotten von popped when the asset bubbles created by the privately-controlled Federal Reserve Bank and other central banks went das belly up.

    Weimar American Empire goes dodo when the asset bubbles created by the privately-controlled Federal Reserve Bank and other globalized central banks implodes.

    The Ruling Class is in the last ditch and they are using monetary extremism — asset purchases, dollar swaps, balance sheet ballooning, zero interest rate policy, mortgage-backed securities purchases, government debt purchases, dot plots, jawboning, green smoke emanating from the New York Fed building to give some religiosity and mumbo-jumbo magic to the electronic conjuring up of cash and much more besides — to retain power and to remain in power and the asset bubbles are bubbling and they will pop.

  24. @anonymous
    @nebulafox


    even before the repression in Xinjiang got ratcheted up, people tend to underestimate how rampant racism (the real stuff, not the SJW nonsense) against Turkics was in China…
     
    Do you have first hand impressions of this? From my own observations in international orientated bars and clubs in Beijing, one group I kept on bumping into were Uighur college girls, speaking good English, out for a drink. It gave me the speculative impression that educated Uighurs find the rest of China can be an escape hatch from a stifling Muslim society. In Northern Ireland, during the 1970s height of the Troubles, the Catholic university students were noticeably missing from the nationalist cause. They liked the outer world opened up by the UK and the Catholic ghetto was dreary. I think that dynamic is going on with Uighurs. This is not to say that the Uighurs living in Beijing aren't on guard about government surveillance.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @nebulafox

    Yeah, I saw the same thing: and to be honest, if I myself were Uighur, that’d probably would have been me, trying to join mainstream Han society and escape the Muslim ghetto. But I’m under no illusions about confusing upwardly mobile 20-somethings who represented the intellectual cream of a given society for a majority of people. Nor, it should be stressed, is the threat of Islamic inspired separatist radicalism a figment of Beijing’s imagination, to be fair to them.

    Problem is… that’s not most Uighurs, who have a very long and ugly relationship with the Chinese government over attempts to “civilize” them or swarm them with Han settlers, going back well before 1949. It’s only been recently that Han settlers have managed to stay put: previous attempts saw them all try to return. (It’s *really* fascinating history, Xinjiangnese history: the first CIA officer on the wall in Langley was killed in Xinjiang. Soviet invasions, warlords, the distinction between loyalty to the dynasty clashing with the new Republic of China, late Qing indigenous revolts… it really is.)

    Even pre-2009, you could outright be denied a hotel room if you were a Uighur, particularly a single Uighur man. It’s not like I’ve got some huge moral issue with this kind of stuff: at risk of sounding like a gigantic asshole, it’s not my society, so it isn’t my problem. I just don’t want to hear lectures about “black bodies” from people who take money from the CCP, because I know full well how far from the bottom on race America really is.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @nebulafox

    Ethnographic map of Xinjiang

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Xinjiang_nationalities_by_prefecture_2000.png/1024px-Xinjiang_nationalities_by_prefecture_2000.png

    I am not familiar with the 20th century history of the region but do have some knowledge of the current ethnographic situation from a global race relations perspective. At the start of the PRC, North Xinjiang was not very populated so it was settled by a lot of Han and Hui. The only major pocket of Uighurs in the north is around Turpan. The Uighurs living there should probably be classified as a different ethnic group as they get along with their neighbors a lot better than the main group of Uighurs in the southwest (no terrorist attacks in the north committed by Uighurs from the north have occurred). The settlement strategy in the more populated southwest was to create new cities in the desert to avoid clashes. The source of discontent in 2009 was actually Uighurs in the south moving to 90% Han/Hui Urumqi because there were no jobs in the Uighur heartland. The Uighur migrants went on a racial rampage in July 2009 through Urumqi.

    If you take away the Islamic factor, the story of Uighurs in China is another conflict between an 85 IQ racial group up against a 100 IQ racial majority. China would be wise to have the emotional maturity to sever southwest Xinjiang and expel it from China as its own independent nation. A resentful minority of 10 million is expensive to maintain and the problems will extend into the 22nd century. It is better to use the resources for a manned Mars mission or something else that can benefit humanity rather than buy the loyalty of a Muslim group.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @songbird

  25. @songbird
    The rainbow flag should be banned from all areas that white progressives inhabit, just as alcoholic spirits are banned from many Amerind reservations.

    Progs crave two things with a burning passion: free sexual license and some form of skin-color signaling. Give them those two things, and they will lose their minds, and burn down their own habitations in their ecstasy.

    Replies: @Caspar von Everec

    Just cancel their netflix. They’ll be committing mass harikiri within the week

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Caspar von Everec

    I like the idea of using Netflix as a carrot.

    They spent an estimated $17 billion last year - chump change compared to a lot of social programs. My idea would be to use it to to encourage people to move to different areas.

    Relocate to Africa? Get free black Netflix, along with other perks. We will move the production of black American entertainment into Africa, to help generate jobs, as well as reduce the costs of production and increase volume.

  26. @Twinkie
    @anonymous


    It gave me the speculative impression that educated Uighurs find the rest of China can be an escape hatch from a stifling Muslim society.
     
    This is not uncommon in empires.

    Park Chung-Hee, the former South Korean general who took power and initiated the economic miracle, is said to have rued thusly when a young man:

    Extremely intelligent, egotistic and ambitious, Park's hero from his boyhood on was Napoleon, and he frequently expressed much disgust that he had to grow up in the poor and backward countryside of Korea, a place that was not suitable for someone like himself.[9] Those who knew Park as a youth recalled that a recurring theme of his remarks was his wish to "escape" from the Korean countryside.[9] As someone who had grown up under Japanese rule, Park often expressed his admiration for Japan's rapid modernization after the Meiji Restoration of 1867 and for Bushido ("the way of the warrior"), the Japanese warrior code.[9]
     
    Before Korea gained independence, Park served as an army officer for the Japanese puppet-state of Manchukuo. He did escape the backward Korean countryside after all.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    This sentiment is something I can emotionally relate to from my own childhood. I still can, to a certain extent. Nothing gives me homicidal thoughts quicker than any sort of vague implication from “cloud Americans” that I should know my place and accept a boring, quiet life, trapped and nodding along.

    But the thing that’s given me second thoughts is the realization that my family will die for me, and I for them, no matter who we are or what we believe. A greater contrast to the largely transactional relationships of professional America cannot be envisioned.

  27. @V. K. Ovelund

    Big business and the culture wars, a marriage made in heaven....
     
    I must say, I never saw the marriage coming. I still do not understand it, but at least I can recognize my foes when they act as such.

    One remains skeptical that big business constituted a coherent class, but big business has been doing its best recently persuade me that it just might constitute that.

    A significant number of small businessmen, employers each of ten to 100, are known to me, plus one who employs about 300; but I know no big businessmen. Not one. I do not actually know what those people are like.

    Some of the small businessmen of my acquaintance are admittedly a little like that, but only a little. Most are not at all.

    As to the bigs and their attitudes, I don't get it.

    Replies: @Greta Handel, @Wency

    My experience with actual top corporate leadership has been limited outside of extremely formal contexts, but I went to a reasonably elite MBA school, and most of my classmates went on to corporate work. None are CEOs of Fortune 500 companies yet (I follow practically the whole class on LinkedIn), but I believe some are on that path. There are some CFOs and COOs of smaller public companies now, and some have been promoted to impressive-sounding titles within middle management at various megacorps.

    My sense of this class of person is that most of them have a fairly high IQ, but they’re intellectually incurious, mostly inclined to ask one question and one question only: “How is a successful businessman expected to comport himself?” and then mirror that personality as best as they can. I’ll also say they seemed to be the type of person who, at least in that stage of life, was drawn to centers of money and power, whose eyes glimmered at the bright lights of places like NYC. I already knew at that age that I wanted to be as far away from places like NYC as possible.

    I met several people who had more mental horsepower than I did, but no one who was nearly as curious about the world as I was (or at least no one who was prepared to admit it). We never even talked politics, though admittedly the Great A-Wokening was just getting underway then. The culture was very surface-level, very dedicated to “Rolodex-building” as the old-timers say, so you wanted to have fun with people, not alienate them with controversy. This is unlike undergrad, where many of us were curious about the world and would get into deep conversations and debates outside class, maybe even engaging the professor outside class. In MBA school, unlike undergrad, everyone generally assumed the profs had little to teach them since they’re academics and not businesspeople.

    Though again, maybe a lot of that was stage of life. Some of these people might have been more curious as undergrads, and maybe after MBA school they matured in a different direction. But I never really lost my curiosity, which might be part of what makes fatherhood so enjoyable. Sometimes I can relate better to kids and their 10,000 questions than all the adults who stopped asking any.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Wency

    >I already knew at that age that I wanted to be as far away from places like NYC as possible.

    Decisions take on a very different psychological light when you have a clear choice in the matter: when you aren't accepting something out of a lack of other choices, but because you, as a desireable, strong, masterful person are embracing it. (This is why telling blithely telling "incels" to go to church, Williamson-style, ain't gonna work.) I really despise people who make lack of opportunity into virtue, especially if they themselves aren't in that position and are instead lecturing people who are. This is unavoidable, even if you intellectually know better.

    (Similarly: all the stuff about, say, body acceptance is really Mean Girls advice, on some level. They don't do that with their own bodies, but in order to make themselves feel good-i.e, not for the other person-they'll tell that crap to someone who might subliminally be looking for support for actual, positive changes, yet are too weak to do on their own. It's the ultimate passive-aggressive subversion of a potential rival. If you truly care about someone, love someone, you'll want them to become your equal, or even get better than you, rather than reserving them for permanent satellite status.)

    , @anon
    @Wency

    My sense of this class of person is that most of them have a fairly high IQ, but they’re intellectually incurious...

    These are the people who buy copies of Thomas Freidman's books and give them to subordinates with a note saying "urgent, must read".

    , @Mark G.
    @Wency


    I met several people who had more mental horsepower than I did, but no one who was nearly as curious about the world as I was (or at least no one who was prepared to admit it).
     
    I've always had people making remarks about how curious I am about things. I noticed a lot of people who got good grades in school did little extracurricular reading. The most highly educated person I ever dated had a PhD and was a highly paid research scientist at a local drug company. The first time she came over to my apartment she said I had more books than anyone else she had ever met. It surprised me that someone who traveled in such highly educated circles would say that.

    I've only been in the homes of three people in my life who had really large book collections. One is my best friend and he inherited a lot of books from his father who was a newspaper editor. The second one was my great grandfather who was a college math professor. He had over 600 math related books, many in German since he got his PhD at the University of Heidelberg. The third time I saw a large personal book collection was one time when I went with a friend to visit someone he knew who was a Harvard graduate. I wanted to see what a Harvard graduate might read so I went over and looked at his books. I saw Sophocles on the shelf and then looked at his other books and found he had a big collection of Greek and Roman classics.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @V. K. Ovelund
    @Wency


    My sense of this class of person is that most of them have a fairly high IQ, but they’re intellectually incurious, mostly inclined to ask one question and one question only: “How is a successful businessman expected to comport himself?” and then mirror that personality as best as they can.
     
    Your comment (all if it, not only the quoted sentence) is the single most interesting, informative thing I have read during the month of April.

    What is weird is that The Wall Street Journal can no longer manage to publish insights like yours. You'd think they would, for that's their beat, except that they've apparently been captured by their own feedback loop.

    I spent hours scouring the Journal for the answer to the question. No luck. There was a fair bit of sloppy, unconvincing career advice that looked like it was written while riding the New York subway, but nothing persuasive. And yet here you are, just giving the answer. That's great.

    The elite MBA-school attitude you illuminate is one of the few things I have read about big-business executives that makes sense to me, for at MBA-school age (perhaps like many men at that stage of life) I too spent significant, conscious effort to mirror certain personalities. The scary thing is, had I been exposed to the specific kind of personality of which you speak, and had I the chops for it, then I can see myself mirroring it, too, just as you describe. Not good.

    Replies: @Wency

  28. @Rosie
    @Twinkie


    Isn’t that just fascism?
     
    No. Fascism is colpectivist, state nationalism. It emphasizes national unity, security, and sovereignty. Few people understand this term, because it isn't properly taught, even to students of political philosophy, for fear that it makes too much sense.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Not only wrathful

    No. Fascism is colpectivist, state nationalism. It emphasizes national unity, security, and sovereignty.

    Yes, if you believe the propaganda. In reality, it is simply yet another excuse to project the parts of yourself you can’t come to terms with onto other people.

    In turn, this leads to the opposite of the aims. Every time.

    When I look at avowedly fascist regimes, I see no “national unity”, no “security” and no respect for “sovereignty”.

    ” Oh, but it was everybody else’s fault!”

    Yes, well isn’t it always….

    Lol

    People never learn (on what I perceive to be a reasonable timescale)

  29. @Wency
    @V. K. Ovelund

    My experience with actual top corporate leadership has been limited outside of extremely formal contexts, but I went to a reasonably elite MBA school, and most of my classmates went on to corporate work. None are CEOs of Fortune 500 companies yet (I follow practically the whole class on LinkedIn), but I believe some are on that path. There are some CFOs and COOs of smaller public companies now, and some have been promoted to impressive-sounding titles within middle management at various megacorps.

    My sense of this class of person is that most of them have a fairly high IQ, but they're intellectually incurious, mostly inclined to ask one question and one question only: "How is a successful businessman expected to comport himself?" and then mirror that personality as best as they can. I'll also say they seemed to be the type of person who, at least in that stage of life, was drawn to centers of money and power, whose eyes glimmered at the bright lights of places like NYC. I already knew at that age that I wanted to be as far away from places like NYC as possible.

    I met several people who had more mental horsepower than I did, but no one who was nearly as curious about the world as I was (or at least no one who was prepared to admit it). We never even talked politics, though admittedly the Great A-Wokening was just getting underway then. The culture was very surface-level, very dedicated to "Rolodex-building" as the old-timers say, so you wanted to have fun with people, not alienate them with controversy. This is unlike undergrad, where many of us were curious about the world and would get into deep conversations and debates outside class, maybe even engaging the professor outside class. In MBA school, unlike undergrad, everyone generally assumed the profs had little to teach them since they're academics and not businesspeople.

    Though again, maybe a lot of that was stage of life. Some of these people might have been more curious as undergrads, and maybe after MBA school they matured in a different direction. But I never really lost my curiosity, which might be part of what makes fatherhood so enjoyable. Sometimes I can relate better to kids and their 10,000 questions than all the adults who stopped asking any.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @anon, @Mark G., @V. K. Ovelund

    >I already knew at that age that I wanted to be as far away from places like NYC as possible.

    Decisions take on a very different psychological light when you have a clear choice in the matter: when you aren’t accepting something out of a lack of other choices, but because you, as a desireable, strong, masterful person are embracing it. (This is why telling blithely telling “incels” to go to church, Williamson-style, ain’t gonna work.) I really despise people who make lack of opportunity into virtue, especially if they themselves aren’t in that position and are instead lecturing people who are. This is unavoidable, even if you intellectually know better.

    (Similarly: all the stuff about, say, body acceptance is really Mean Girls advice, on some level. They don’t do that with their own bodies, but in order to make themselves feel good-i.e, not for the other person-they’ll tell that crap to someone who might subliminally be looking for support for actual, positive changes, yet are too weak to do on their own. It’s the ultimate passive-aggressive subversion of a potential rival. If you truly care about someone, love someone, you’ll want them to become your equal, or even get better than you, rather than reserving them for permanent satellite status.)

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
  30. Woke Capitalism? Pepe Escobar’s “Techno-Feudalism” better defines the Globalists.

    Under Global Feudalism a few families will own everything. Everybody else will own nothing. Technology has already made resistance impossible. The woke are not Capitalists. They are guinea sheep, controlled from above yet imagining that they themselves are in controll.

    Some of us can plainly see that Critical Race Theory, Trans Ideology and Negrolatry are absolute bullshit. Some of us can plainly see that the race war is a tool of the ruling class in what is actually a class war. The only way forward for some of us is separation. We cannot defeat the woke and we cannot live with them. With leadership we might yet wriggle out from under thier jurisdiction.

    • Replies: @Franz
    @WorkingClass


    Some of us can plainly see that the race war is a tool of the ruling class in what is actually a class war. The only way forward for some of us is separation. We cannot defeat the woke and we cannot live with them.
     
    That's the whole ball of wax. Since Carnegie hired felons out of the penitentiary at Altoona, PA to put on his "union" versus "Pinkerton" show, it's been one project after another. And even easier to see through now.
  31. @Twinkie
    @Rosie

    If you keep interrupting the adults, I will spank you. Now go play with your stuffed animals.

    Replies: @Rosie, @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Yes, the adults whose colorblind CivNat strategy has done nothing to stop the other side from bringing my people – Whites – to our knees.

    Bang up job, adults.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    If immigration were to cease totally today, the demographic changes of the last few decades are not going to disappear.

    There's a very, very simple solution: make it so that 30 years from now, having an Asian or Hispanic grandparent is as significant as having a Slavic or Italian one is now-i.e, nothing more than a bit of family trivia.This is *exactly* what the woke types don't want. They really don't want a revived, coherent American majority of 1/2, 3/4ths white people who are rather unlikely to hate their parents, their grandparents. Why do you think they are going out of their way to incentivize the complete opposite, of emphasizing how you are "oppressed" rather than mainstream, at least for America's future mandarinate?

    Sophisticated casta-esque hierarchies where you can gain social advantage through lack of assimilation for entry to upwardly mobile America at a time of increasing declassment-and brutal consequences for declassment-is not just a cynical attempt at divide-and-conquer. It reflects a very real fear.

    (That racializing society and expecting one and only racial group to magically not buy into that-and that group being the one they incessantly demonize in racial terms, at that-goes against the recorded history of human behavior? Well, some ideas are so silly you have to be an intellectual to buy into them.)

    Replies: @216

    , @Twinkie
    @Citizen of a Silly Country


    colorblind
     
    You seem to be implying that one has to be either a white nationalist or colorblind.

    Does it strike you that I am either?


    my people – Whites – to our knees.
     
    Are the ultra-leftist elite (Good)whites who are at the vanguard and leadership of all this anti-(Bad)whiteness, sacralization of blacks, trans- and homosexual-supremacy all the while championing corporatocracy really "your" people? And are they really on their knees with you, too?

    You seem to think of the current strife as white vs. nonwhite. I don't see it that way. To repeat, the current domestic conflict in America appears to me to be a white people civil war, in which Goodwhites are trying to crush the Badwhites and are using nonwhites - especially blacks - as totems, emblems, and auxiliaries to strike at and cow the Badwhites.

    My wife is a Badwhite. So is her family, which I consider as my own (they certainly think of me as one of theirs). My own children are being raised as Badwhites. My allegiance here is rather clear, no?

    Look, I have my own people and they have me. You can, of course, frame your own people however you like. But as much as you think your ideology makes you clear-eyed and realistic, you are also being delusional if you think elite Badwhites think of you as their people simply because you are racially white.

    When you are literally, not just figuratively, on your knees, they are not going to be next to you and are far more likely to be holding a pistol over your head. If that tragic day were to come, I am going to die knowing that I did my best to fight for those whom I loved and those who loved me. Would you be able to say that?

    Replies: @dfordoom

  32. These fake “social justice” issues are just a distraction.
    The Jews are looting America, and trying to blame Whites for it.

    The income inequality points directly to the Synagogue.
    They have to obstruct that fact with propaganda.

    The blacks are too dumb to see it, but Whites are waking up.
    This “wokeness” will blow up in their faces.

    White people are not kulaks. They are armed and should be ready.
    This will and can be a SHORT WAR.

    Its only a question of getting these SJWs to attack the Really Rich.
    EAT THE RICH should be pointed and locked on the Synagogue.

  33. Woke Capitalism

    Weak Politician Whores

    Teddy Cruz and Lindsey Graham and Marsha Blackburn are weak, cowardly politician whores who do the bidding of the evil and treasonous CHEAP LABOR FACTION of the rancid Republican Party.

    Cruz, Blackburn and Graham all push nation-wrecking mass legal immigration and they all refuse to call for a complete and total halt to all legal immigration.

    Cruz, Blackburn and Graham refuse to call for the immediate deportation of the upwards of 30 million illegal alien infiltrators in the USA.

    Cruz, Blackburn and Graham all agree with fat ass baby boomer Trump when Trump starts screaming about flooding the USA with mass legal immigration “in the largest numbers ever.”

    Cruz, Blackburn and Graham all put the interests of Israel over and above the national security interests of the USA.

    Teddy Cruz can’t push away from the pulled pork piled high on the table and he grows a fat man Orson Welles beard to give him the appearance of a jawline.

    Marsha Blackburn is some kind of Marsha-come-lately to Williamson County, Tennessee who puts the interests of plutocrats and corporations and the corrupt globalizer slobs over and above the interests of the people of Tennessee and the USA as a whole.

    My people pioneered that area of Tennessee when Blackburn’s people were getting their heads roasted and fried by the hot sun in that land of lunatics called Mississippi. When the moon is out is the only time to go out in Mississippi. Mississippi Mud by Hank Williams III is a good song.

    I had high hopes for Blackburn, but she broke my heart just like that fat ass baby boomer from Queens, New York called Trumpy.

    Marsha!

    Lindsey Graham voted for the 2013 Rubio/Obama Mass Legal Immigration/Illegal Alien Invader Surge bill(S 744). That immigration bill would’ve tripled legal immigration and it would have given amnesty to upwards of 30 million illegal alien invaders.

    Politics is getting fun and interesting again!

  34. “Woke capitalism” is just a cope by boomers and future FEMA camp detainees who aren’t able to cope with a changing economy. The Chinese system is a blessing to America, because it is slowly grinding down white protestants into dust, and the World, because it is hollowing out the Long Arm of Jewish power.

    God Bless Globalism. Christ is King.

  35. @Twinkie
    @nebulafox


    the fascists had much better aesthetics.
     
    You made me laugh. Agreed, agreed! Well, okay. Post-modern fascists, then.

    For that matter, I think the post-modern CCP is also more fascist than communist, wouldn't you say?

    Who's the guy who said there are only two kinds of fascists - fascists and anti-fascists?

    Replies: @nebulafox, @nebulafox

    I think there is one big difference: no matter how willing Hitler or Mussolini would have been willing to engage in give and take with the heads of the private sector, there was never any question of their supreme dominance in political affairs, whereas in the modern US, it is genuinely questionable who does exert more political authority, with a compelling case to be made for the private sector. Networked corporations are not an arm of the state, but the brain.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/johnrobb/status/1385221796165824521

    As Jack Ma’s experience shows, the PRC leans more toward the former model.

    There was also a fundamentally revolutionary quality to fascism that isn’t necessarily synonymous with far-right, militaristic government. Imperial Japan is a great counterexample of what happened when old elites retained some take rather than accepting subordinate status as in Germany or Italy. Actual fascists got shot in 1930s Japan as subversives.

    BTW, during the 1930s, Chiang (who probably killed more people by flood than the Japanese did when they sacked Nanjing) really did have a stronger fascistic streak than I gave him credit for. DDG the New Life Movement. These kinds of campaigns to regulate private behavior and form new ideologically correct citizens, in image of the Commies, are key indicators of fascism vs. standard authoritarianism. It can get blurry-again, I do not consider 30s Japan fascist , and they did plenty of this stuff-but there you go.

    • Agree: Twinkie
  36. @Greta Handel
    @Twinkie

    This extended exchange is a good example of “real handles” in contrast to commenter anonymity degrading the website, something I predicted before and upon being “nudged” by Mr. Unz to adopt a pseudonym. (IIRC, this author/moderator may prohibit anonymous comments altogether.)

    Would Rosie’s initial comment upthread have been substantially addressed by Twinkie if posted by someone else?

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Would Rosie’s initial comment upthread have been substantially addressed by Twinkie if posted by someone else?

    Yes.

    • Disagree: iffen
    • Replies: @Greta Handel
    @Twinkie

    Thanks. (And the blogger I recalled who prohibits anonymous comments is Anatoly Karlin.)

    Replies: @Twinkie

  37. @WorkingClass
    Woke Capitalism? Pepe Escobar's "Techno-Feudalism" better defines the Globalists.

    Under Global Feudalism a few families will own everything. Everybody else will own nothing. Technology has already made resistance impossible. The woke are not Capitalists. They are guinea sheep, controlled from above yet imagining that they themselves are in controll.

    Some of us can plainly see that Critical Race Theory, Trans Ideology and Negrolatry are absolute bullshit. Some of us can plainly see that the race war is a tool of the ruling class in what is actually a class war. The only way forward for some of us is separation. We cannot defeat the woke and we cannot live with them. With leadership we might yet wriggle out from under thier jurisdiction.

    Replies: @Franz

    Some of us can plainly see that the race war is a tool of the ruling class in what is actually a class war. The only way forward for some of us is separation. We cannot defeat the woke and we cannot live with them.

    That’s the whole ball of wax. Since Carnegie hired felons out of the penitentiary at Altoona, PA to put on his “union” versus “Pinkerton” show, it’s been one project after another. And even easier to see through now.

  38. On this survey in particular, it really is interesting how strong a predictor partisan affiliation is. I can’t remember too many other topics where Democrat support was so much stronger than, say, youth support or black support.

    The thesis that the survey seems to support is that corporations *aren’t* Woke because key demographics (i.e., the youth) require them to be in order to be “hip”, that the kids these days won’t buy chicken noodle soup if it isn’t gay, which is an argument I’ve heard several people make. Instead, the survey suggests they’re Woke in order to buy some measure of protection from Democratic politicians.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Wency


    The thesis that the survey seems to support is that corporations *aren’t* Woke because key demographics (i.e., the youth) require them to be in order to be “hip”, that the kids these days won’t buy chicken noodle soup if it isn’t gay, which is an argument I’ve heard several people make. Instead, the survey suggests they’re Woke in order to buy some measure of protection from Democratic politicians.
     
    So for corporations being Woke is like making political donations - just one of the costs of doing business? In other words it's really a protection racket.

    Sounds plausible.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    @Wency

    Instead, the survey suggests they’re Woke in order to buy some measure of protection from Democratic politicians.

    That's one way to view whose is the whip hand.

    Alternatively, Democrat politicians will do whatever the corpotocracy demands they do. The only thing they ask of the corpotocracy in return is to be Woke, which they're happy to do because it doesn't cost them anything.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @anon

  39. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @Twinkie

    Yes, the adults whose colorblind CivNat strategy has done nothing to stop the other side from bringing my people - Whites - to our knees.

    Bang up job, adults.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Twinkie

    If immigration were to cease totally today, the demographic changes of the last few decades are not going to disappear.

    There’s a very, very simple solution: make it so that 30 years from now, having an Asian or Hispanic grandparent is as significant as having a Slavic or Italian one is now-i.e, nothing more than a bit of family trivia.This is *exactly* what the woke types don’t want. They really don’t want a revived, coherent American majority of 1/2, 3/4ths white people who are rather unlikely to hate their parents, their grandparents. Why do you think they are going out of their way to incentivize the complete opposite, of emphasizing how you are “oppressed” rather than mainstream, at least for America’s future mandarinate?

    Sophisticated casta-esque hierarchies where you can gain social advantage through lack of assimilation for entry to upwardly mobile America at a time of increasing declassment-and brutal consequences for declassment-is not just a cynical attempt at divide-and-conquer. It reflects a very real fear.

    (That racializing society and expecting one and only racial group to magically not buy into that-and that group being the one they incessantly demonize in racial terms, at that-goes against the recorded history of human behavior? Well, some ideas are so silly you have to be an intellectual to buy into them.)

    • Agree: Twinkie
    • Replies: @216
    @nebulafox


    If immigration were to cease totally today, the demographic changes of the last few decades are not going to disappear.

     

    They will if you implode the economy. Kazakhs were once a minority in Kazakhstan, but not anymore.

    This is *exactly* what the woke types don’t want. They really don’t want a revived, coherent American majority of 1/2, 3/4ths white people who are rather unlikely to hate their parents, their grandparents.

     

    When we speak of "assimilation" today, we are speaking of convergence to a secular liberal mainstream. While non-whites can affiliate with conservative culture, there are no benefits to doing so, and minor risk of their family disowning them. They do have an advantage in being harder to "cancel".

    Conservatives have zero cultural power in media and academia, and won't use what powers they have in the 3/5ths of government they have influence in.

    What is more apt to happen is people identifying with "multiracial" for more A/A points, and "pure whites" being subject to additional discrimination. GOP pols have shown minimal action towards getting rid of A/A, or at least making it class-based.

    Look at the pattern of Jewish out-marriage, people of marginal Jewish ancestry that probably never attend synagogue will still identity as Jewish. There are no official A/A points for being Jewish, but the victim status and networking outweigh what would otherwise be nominal affiliation with Mainline Protestantism.

    The real "assimilation" in this country is rural/suburban younger whites from conservative backgrounds adopting Wokeness as a result of media and academic influence.

    The pressure to belong is quite large, though to many of us here it doesn't matter so much. But especially for women, they appear to be under a lot of mental stress in these times.
  40. @Wency
    @V. K. Ovelund

    My experience with actual top corporate leadership has been limited outside of extremely formal contexts, but I went to a reasonably elite MBA school, and most of my classmates went on to corporate work. None are CEOs of Fortune 500 companies yet (I follow practically the whole class on LinkedIn), but I believe some are on that path. There are some CFOs and COOs of smaller public companies now, and some have been promoted to impressive-sounding titles within middle management at various megacorps.

    My sense of this class of person is that most of them have a fairly high IQ, but they're intellectually incurious, mostly inclined to ask one question and one question only: "How is a successful businessman expected to comport himself?" and then mirror that personality as best as they can. I'll also say they seemed to be the type of person who, at least in that stage of life, was drawn to centers of money and power, whose eyes glimmered at the bright lights of places like NYC. I already knew at that age that I wanted to be as far away from places like NYC as possible.

    I met several people who had more mental horsepower than I did, but no one who was nearly as curious about the world as I was (or at least no one who was prepared to admit it). We never even talked politics, though admittedly the Great A-Wokening was just getting underway then. The culture was very surface-level, very dedicated to "Rolodex-building" as the old-timers say, so you wanted to have fun with people, not alienate them with controversy. This is unlike undergrad, where many of us were curious about the world and would get into deep conversations and debates outside class, maybe even engaging the professor outside class. In MBA school, unlike undergrad, everyone generally assumed the profs had little to teach them since they're academics and not businesspeople.

    Though again, maybe a lot of that was stage of life. Some of these people might have been more curious as undergrads, and maybe after MBA school they matured in a different direction. But I never really lost my curiosity, which might be part of what makes fatherhood so enjoyable. Sometimes I can relate better to kids and their 10,000 questions than all the adults who stopped asking any.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @anon, @Mark G., @V. K. Ovelund

    My sense of this class of person is that most of them have a fairly high IQ, but they’re intellectually incurious…

    These are the people who buy copies of Thomas Freidman’s books and give them to subordinates with a note saying “urgent, must read”.

    • LOL: Daniel H
  41. 216 says: • Website
    @Twinkie
    @nebulafox

    Isn't that just fascism?

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Rosie, @216

    The better term is “cronyism”. Or “rentier socialism”.

    Another term is “Dirigisme”, which has no clear English translation.

    Leftists would prefer “state capitalism”.

    XX century fascist movements were not concerned with economics as separate from militarism.

    In the XXI century, only the DPRK has pursued policies emphasizing military power as preferred to household consumption.

    Can you have a “democratic socialism” where an opposition party that wants to dismantle socialism can win office?

    Can you have a “constitutional fascism”, given the historic opposition of fascism towards proceduralism?

  42. @Wency
    @V. K. Ovelund

    My experience with actual top corporate leadership has been limited outside of extremely formal contexts, but I went to a reasonably elite MBA school, and most of my classmates went on to corporate work. None are CEOs of Fortune 500 companies yet (I follow practically the whole class on LinkedIn), but I believe some are on that path. There are some CFOs and COOs of smaller public companies now, and some have been promoted to impressive-sounding titles within middle management at various megacorps.

    My sense of this class of person is that most of them have a fairly high IQ, but they're intellectually incurious, mostly inclined to ask one question and one question only: "How is a successful businessman expected to comport himself?" and then mirror that personality as best as they can. I'll also say they seemed to be the type of person who, at least in that stage of life, was drawn to centers of money and power, whose eyes glimmered at the bright lights of places like NYC. I already knew at that age that I wanted to be as far away from places like NYC as possible.

    I met several people who had more mental horsepower than I did, but no one who was nearly as curious about the world as I was (or at least no one who was prepared to admit it). We never even talked politics, though admittedly the Great A-Wokening was just getting underway then. The culture was very surface-level, very dedicated to "Rolodex-building" as the old-timers say, so you wanted to have fun with people, not alienate them with controversy. This is unlike undergrad, where many of us were curious about the world and would get into deep conversations and debates outside class, maybe even engaging the professor outside class. In MBA school, unlike undergrad, everyone generally assumed the profs had little to teach them since they're academics and not businesspeople.

    Though again, maybe a lot of that was stage of life. Some of these people might have been more curious as undergrads, and maybe after MBA school they matured in a different direction. But I never really lost my curiosity, which might be part of what makes fatherhood so enjoyable. Sometimes I can relate better to kids and their 10,000 questions than all the adults who stopped asking any.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @anon, @Mark G., @V. K. Ovelund

    I met several people who had more mental horsepower than I did, but no one who was nearly as curious about the world as I was (or at least no one who was prepared to admit it).

    I’ve always had people making remarks about how curious I am about things. I noticed a lot of people who got good grades in school did little extracurricular reading. The most highly educated person I ever dated had a PhD and was a highly paid research scientist at a local drug company. The first time she came over to my apartment she said I had more books than anyone else she had ever met. It surprised me that someone who traveled in such highly educated circles would say that.

    I’ve only been in the homes of three people in my life who had really large book collections. One is my best friend and he inherited a lot of books from his father who was a newspaper editor. The second one was my great grandfather who was a college math professor. He had over 600 math related books, many in German since he got his PhD at the University of Heidelberg. The third time I saw a large personal book collection was one time when I went with a friend to visit someone he knew who was a Harvard graduate. I wanted to see what a Harvard graduate might read so I went over and looked at his books. I saw Sophocles on the shelf and then looked at his other books and found he had a big collection of Greek and Roman classics.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Mark G.

    I pride myself on my personal library. At last count I had over a couple of thousand volumes, mostly on history (esp. military history) - I even won a prize in book collecting in college (the prize was a gift certificate to a local used bookstore). I thought I was pretty hot stuff as a bibliophile until I befriended an aristocratic powerbroker in D.C. The first time I was invited to his spacious apartment, I gasped when I saw every wall fully stocked with books from top to bottom. I recognized about half of his books in my own personal library and then they kept going. I shook his hand and said, "You win."

    Thank God, my children seemed to have taken to my love of (physical*) books. They can only watch TV for an hour or two at most and get bored, but they can sit down with a book and read for hours. My wife and I have to tell them to take breaks.

    *We tried a Kindle with them and they did not like it. I think there is something pleasing to the tactile nature of turning pages, feeling the paper on the fingers, and running the hand over maps and pictures in books, and perhaps even the scent of an aged book that the electronic media just cannot replicate.

    Replies: @RSDB

  43. 216 says: • Website
    @nebulafox
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    If immigration were to cease totally today, the demographic changes of the last few decades are not going to disappear.

    There's a very, very simple solution: make it so that 30 years from now, having an Asian or Hispanic grandparent is as significant as having a Slavic or Italian one is now-i.e, nothing more than a bit of family trivia.This is *exactly* what the woke types don't want. They really don't want a revived, coherent American majority of 1/2, 3/4ths white people who are rather unlikely to hate their parents, their grandparents. Why do you think they are going out of their way to incentivize the complete opposite, of emphasizing how you are "oppressed" rather than mainstream, at least for America's future mandarinate?

    Sophisticated casta-esque hierarchies where you can gain social advantage through lack of assimilation for entry to upwardly mobile America at a time of increasing declassment-and brutal consequences for declassment-is not just a cynical attempt at divide-and-conquer. It reflects a very real fear.

    (That racializing society and expecting one and only racial group to magically not buy into that-and that group being the one they incessantly demonize in racial terms, at that-goes against the recorded history of human behavior? Well, some ideas are so silly you have to be an intellectual to buy into them.)

    Replies: @216

    If immigration were to cease totally today, the demographic changes of the last few decades are not going to disappear.

    They will if you implode the economy. Kazakhs were once a minority in Kazakhstan, but not anymore.

    This is *exactly* what the woke types don’t want. They really don’t want a revived, coherent American majority of 1/2, 3/4ths white people who are rather unlikely to hate their parents, their grandparents.

    When we speak of “assimilation” today, we are speaking of convergence to a secular liberal mainstream. While non-whites can affiliate with conservative culture, there are no benefits to doing so, and minor risk of their family disowning them. They do have an advantage in being harder to “cancel”.

    Conservatives have zero cultural power in media and academia, and won’t use what powers they have in the 3/5ths of government they have influence in.

    What is more apt to happen is people identifying with “multiracial” for more A/A points, and “pure whites” being subject to additional discrimination. GOP pols have shown minimal action towards getting rid of A/A, or at least making it class-based.

    Look at the pattern of Jewish out-marriage, people of marginal Jewish ancestry that probably never attend synagogue will still identity as Jewish. There are no official A/A points for being Jewish, but the victim status and networking outweigh what would otherwise be nominal affiliation with Mainline Protestantism.

    The real “assimilation” in this country is rural/suburban younger whites from conservative backgrounds adopting Wokeness as a result of media and academic influence.

    The pressure to belong is quite large, though to many of us here it doesn’t matter so much. But especially for women, they appear to be under a lot of mental stress in these times.

  44. @Wency
    On this survey in particular, it really is interesting how strong a predictor partisan affiliation is. I can't remember too many other topics where Democrat support was so much stronger than, say, youth support or black support.

    The thesis that the survey seems to support is that corporations *aren't* Woke because key demographics (i.e., the youth) require them to be in order to be "hip", that the kids these days won't buy chicken noodle soup if it isn't gay, which is an argument I've heard several people make. Instead, the survey suggests they're Woke in order to buy some measure of protection from Democratic politicians.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Audacious Epigone

    The thesis that the survey seems to support is that corporations *aren’t* Woke because key demographics (i.e., the youth) require them to be in order to be “hip”, that the kids these days won’t buy chicken noodle soup if it isn’t gay, which is an argument I’ve heard several people make. Instead, the survey suggests they’re Woke in order to buy some measure of protection from Democratic politicians.

    So for corporations being Woke is like making political donations – just one of the costs of doing business? In other words it’s really a protection racket.

    Sounds plausible.

    • Agree: Mark G.
  45. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @Twinkie

    Yes, the adults whose colorblind CivNat strategy has done nothing to stop the other side from bringing my people - Whites - to our knees.

    Bang up job, adults.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Twinkie

    colorblind

    You seem to be implying that one has to be either a white nationalist or colorblind.

    Does it strike you that I am either?

    my people – Whites – to our knees.

    Are the ultra-leftist elite (Good)whites who are at the vanguard and leadership of all this anti-(Bad)whiteness, sacralization of blacks, trans- and homosexual-supremacy all the while championing corporatocracy really “your” people? And are they really on their knees with you, too?

    You seem to think of the current strife as white vs. nonwhite. I don’t see it that way. To repeat, the current domestic conflict in America appears to me to be a white people civil war, in which Goodwhites are trying to crush the Badwhites and are using nonwhites – especially blacks – as totems, emblems, and auxiliaries to strike at and cow the Badwhites.

    My wife is a Badwhite. So is her family, which I consider as my own (they certainly think of me as one of theirs). My own children are being raised as Badwhites. My allegiance here is rather clear, no?

    Look, I have my own people and they have me. You can, of course, frame your own people however you like. But as much as you think your ideology makes you clear-eyed and realistic, you are also being delusional if you think elite Badwhites think of you as their people simply because you are racially white.

    When you are literally, not just figuratively, on your knees, they are not going to be next to you and are far more likely to be holding a pistol over your head. If that tragic day were to come, I am going to die knowing that I did my best to fight for those whom I loved and those who loved me. Would you be able to say that?

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Twinkie


    Are the ultra-leftist elite (Good)whites who are at the vanguard and leadership of all this anti-(Bad)whiteness, sacralization of blacks, trans- and homosexual-supremacy all the while championing corporatocracy really “your” people? And are they really on their knees with you, too?
     
    Precisely. The elite (Good) whites don't even think of non-elite (Bad)whites as belonging to the same species, much less being part of the same people.

    And it's important to recognise that it's not just the elites. There's a huge mass of middle-class white people out there who identify completely with the values, beliefs, attitudes and prejudices of the elites. They may not be elites but they very strongly think of themselves as GoodWhites and they share the elites' hatred of BadWhites.

    And we're talking about a lot of people. Schoolteachers, low-level bureaucrats, librarians, a large chunk of health care workers, middle management types, etc. Overall it's possible that the GoodWhites who identify with elite attitudes make up half the white population. And since those wannabe-elite or elite-identifying GoodWhites suffer more from class and status anxiety their hatred of BadWhites is even more intense.

    You seem to think of the current strife as white vs. nonwhite. I don’t see it that way. To repeat, the current domestic conflict in America appears to me to be a white people civil war, in which Goodwhites are trying to crush the Badwhites and are using nonwhites – especially blacks – as totems, emblems, and auxiliaries to strike at and cow the Badwhites.
     
    Yep.

    Class and ideological hatreds can be much more visceral than racial hatreds. In a class war or an ideological war you have to keep demonstrating your class and ideological loyalties. In this case you have to be constantly proving that you really are a GoodWhite.
  46. @Mark G.
    @Wency


    I met several people who had more mental horsepower than I did, but no one who was nearly as curious about the world as I was (or at least no one who was prepared to admit it).
     
    I've always had people making remarks about how curious I am about things. I noticed a lot of people who got good grades in school did little extracurricular reading. The most highly educated person I ever dated had a PhD and was a highly paid research scientist at a local drug company. The first time she came over to my apartment she said I had more books than anyone else she had ever met. It surprised me that someone who traveled in such highly educated circles would say that.

    I've only been in the homes of three people in my life who had really large book collections. One is my best friend and he inherited a lot of books from his father who was a newspaper editor. The second one was my great grandfather who was a college math professor. He had over 600 math related books, many in German since he got his PhD at the University of Heidelberg. The third time I saw a large personal book collection was one time when I went with a friend to visit someone he knew who was a Harvard graduate. I wanted to see what a Harvard graduate might read so I went over and looked at his books. I saw Sophocles on the shelf and then looked at his other books and found he had a big collection of Greek and Roman classics.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    I pride myself on my personal library. At last count I had over a couple of thousand volumes, mostly on history (esp. military history) – I even won a prize in book collecting in college (the prize was a gift certificate to a local used bookstore). I thought I was pretty hot stuff as a bibliophile until I befriended an aristocratic powerbroker in D.C. The first time I was invited to his spacious apartment, I gasped when I saw every wall fully stocked with books from top to bottom. I recognized about half of his books in my own personal library and then they kept going. I shook his hand and said, “You win.”

    Thank God, my children seemed to have taken to my love of (physical*) books. They can only watch TV for an hour or two at most and get bored, but they can sit down with a book and read for hours. My wife and I have to tell them to take breaks.

    *We tried a Kindle with them and they did not like it. I think there is something pleasing to the tactile nature of turning pages, feeling the paper on the fingers, and running the hand over maps and pictures in books, and perhaps even the scent of an aged book that the electronic media just cannot replicate.

    • Replies: @RSDB
    @Twinkie


    *We tried a Kindle with them and they did not like it. I think there is something pleasing to the tactile nature of turning pages, feeling the paper on the fingers, and running the hand over maps and pictures in books, and perhaps even the scent of an aged book that the electronic media just cannot replicate.

     

    I read a fair amount on archive.org and Gutenberg or various other virtual means these days, and am forced to admit that there are some advantages to doing so; real books cost money and take up space, and virtual books can be searched easily. I never or at least rarely annotate books, so I don't miss that.

    On the other hand with a physical book I have a record of what I have read that intrudes itself on me whether I like it or not, because I must store it and occasionally transport it, and I am often reminded of the contents of a book simply by glancing at the spine, while the contents of books I read virtually get mashed up into some single deposit somewhere in my memory. I think an ancient Greek method of memorization involved visualizing a physical space, almost like a sort of library (the phrase is "palace of memory" or "method of loci"), where data, thoughts, or images are stored; certainly having a spatialized mental world at hand, which is in a sense what a collection of physical books is, seems helpful to thought.
  47. @Twinkie
    @Citizen of a Silly Country


    colorblind
     
    You seem to be implying that one has to be either a white nationalist or colorblind.

    Does it strike you that I am either?


    my people – Whites – to our knees.
     
    Are the ultra-leftist elite (Good)whites who are at the vanguard and leadership of all this anti-(Bad)whiteness, sacralization of blacks, trans- and homosexual-supremacy all the while championing corporatocracy really "your" people? And are they really on their knees with you, too?

    You seem to think of the current strife as white vs. nonwhite. I don't see it that way. To repeat, the current domestic conflict in America appears to me to be a white people civil war, in which Goodwhites are trying to crush the Badwhites and are using nonwhites - especially blacks - as totems, emblems, and auxiliaries to strike at and cow the Badwhites.

    My wife is a Badwhite. So is her family, which I consider as my own (they certainly think of me as one of theirs). My own children are being raised as Badwhites. My allegiance here is rather clear, no?

    Look, I have my own people and they have me. You can, of course, frame your own people however you like. But as much as you think your ideology makes you clear-eyed and realistic, you are also being delusional if you think elite Badwhites think of you as their people simply because you are racially white.

    When you are literally, not just figuratively, on your knees, they are not going to be next to you and are far more likely to be holding a pistol over your head. If that tragic day were to come, I am going to die knowing that I did my best to fight for those whom I loved and those who loved me. Would you be able to say that?

    Replies: @dfordoom

    Are the ultra-leftist elite (Good)whites who are at the vanguard and leadership of all this anti-(Bad)whiteness, sacralization of blacks, trans- and homosexual-supremacy all the while championing corporatocracy really “your” people? And are they really on their knees with you, too?

    Precisely. The elite (Good) whites don’t even think of non-elite (Bad)whites as belonging to the same species, much less being part of the same people.

    And it’s important to recognise that it’s not just the elites. There’s a huge mass of middle-class white people out there who identify completely with the values, beliefs, attitudes and prejudices of the elites. They may not be elites but they very strongly think of themselves as GoodWhites and they share the elites’ hatred of BadWhites.

    And we’re talking about a lot of people. Schoolteachers, low-level bureaucrats, librarians, a large chunk of health care workers, middle management types, etc. Overall it’s possible that the GoodWhites who identify with elite attitudes make up half the white population. And since those wannabe-elite or elite-identifying GoodWhites suffer more from class and status anxiety their hatred of BadWhites is even more intense.

    You seem to think of the current strife as white vs. nonwhite. I don’t see it that way. To repeat, the current domestic conflict in America appears to me to be a white people civil war, in which Goodwhites are trying to crush the Badwhites and are using nonwhites – especially blacks – as totems, emblems, and auxiliaries to strike at and cow the Badwhites.

    Yep.

    Class and ideological hatreds can be much more visceral than racial hatreds. In a class war or an ideological war you have to keep demonstrating your class and ideological loyalties. In this case you have to be constantly proving that you really are a GoodWhite.

  48. Do blacks make the distinction of goodwhite vs badwhite?
    I don’t think they do. Also, the Jews seem to hate all whites.

    After the Bohemian corporal was defeated the Jews made everyone here a Nazi.
    Its about money and power, not class.

    Its using other races as a weapon against White people.
    The dumb blacks buy into it easily. They’re not smart.

    However, they can be used against the Jews.
    Just frame it as this is a Jew-run society.

    Its mostly true. And it will get our enemies to fight each other.
    Tell SJWs that Jews are the really rich that own all the banks.

    The Truth will destroy the Jews. That’s why they are censoring the Web.
    Do not use the Web. Go out into realspace. Get into the fight.

    You must fight to survive. Those that won’t will be killed anyway.
    This is an existential question. You and yours must fight to survive.

  49. anonymous[605] • Disclaimer says:
    @nebulafox
    @anonymous

    Yeah, I saw the same thing: and to be honest, if I myself were Uighur, that'd probably would have been me, trying to join mainstream Han society and escape the Muslim ghetto. But I'm under no illusions about confusing upwardly mobile 20-somethings who represented the intellectual cream of a given society for a majority of people. Nor, it should be stressed, is the threat of Islamic inspired separatist radicalism a figment of Beijing's imagination, to be fair to them.

    Problem is... that's not most Uighurs, who have a very long and ugly relationship with the Chinese government over attempts to "civilize" them or swarm them with Han settlers, going back well before 1949. It's only been recently that Han settlers have managed to stay put: previous attempts saw them all try to return. (It's *really* fascinating history, Xinjiangnese history: the first CIA officer on the wall in Langley was killed in Xinjiang. Soviet invasions, warlords, the distinction between loyalty to the dynasty clashing with the new Republic of China, late Qing indigenous revolts... it really is.)

    Even pre-2009, you could outright be denied a hotel room if you were a Uighur, particularly a single Uighur man. It's not like I've got some huge moral issue with this kind of stuff: at risk of sounding like a gigantic asshole, it's not my society, so it isn't my problem. I just don't want to hear lectures about "black bodies" from people who take money from the CCP, because I know full well how far from the bottom on race America really is.

    Replies: @anonymous

    Ethnographic map of Xinjiang

    I am not familiar with the 20th century history of the region but do have some knowledge of the current ethnographic situation from a global race relations perspective. At the start of the PRC, North Xinjiang was not very populated so it was settled by a lot of Han and Hui. The only major pocket of Uighurs in the north is around Turpan. The Uighurs living there should probably be classified as a different ethnic group as they get along with their neighbors a lot better than the main group of Uighurs in the southwest (no terrorist attacks in the north committed by Uighurs from the north have occurred). The settlement strategy in the more populated southwest was to create new cities in the desert to avoid clashes. The source of discontent in 2009 was actually Uighurs in the south moving to 90% Han/Hui Urumqi because there were no jobs in the Uighur heartland. The Uighur migrants went on a racial rampage in July 2009 through Urumqi.

    If you take away the Islamic factor, the story of Uighurs in China is another conflict between an 85 IQ racial group up against a 100 IQ racial majority. China would be wise to have the emotional maturity to sever southwest Xinjiang and expel it from China as its own independent nation. A resentful minority of 10 million is expensive to maintain and the problems will extend into the 22nd century. It is better to use the resources for a manned Mars mission or something else that can benefit humanity rather than buy the loyalty of a Muslim group.

    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @anonymous

    OK, this is stuff I'm still learning, so don't take it as gospel. That said, here goes.

    My own perception is that the Uighurs perceived their loyalty as being to the Qing dynasty as part of their liberation from the Dzungars. It wasn't to the Chinese state in the abstract, less out of a sense of reluctance so much as largely because that concept of an ethno-national nation-state didn't exist yet in the 1600s. I should emphasize that this just like other empires at the time: the Tsarist and Habsburg states worked similarly, with the former absorbing Muslims similarly to the Qing.

    When the dynasty finally died in 1911, they perceived themselves as free of any obligations to the Chinese state. Needless to say, the ROC felt differently. It's an interesting display of old vs. new mentality. The ROC and later the Communists behaved liked a nation-state with inviolable borders: you know, what we moderns would be familiar with. Whereas the Uighurs-at least in 1911-were still thinking in terms of loyalty to a particular dynasty. Things have changed massively sense then, especially with the prominence of political Islam reviving after the 1980s, but there's the original split.

    (Even then, it's not like things were hunky-dory with all the Muslim rebellions of the late 19th Century, though it should be noted that this was right after the time of the Taiping and the Nian, so the Muslims weren't the only people unhappy with the Manchus.)

    What I'd be particularly curious about learning is how the early ROC decades went, because that overlaps with the Islamic inspired rebellions during the fall of the Tsarist empire and the rise of the USSR. Was there any overlap? This was well before the post-1979 wave of Islamic global revivalism brought by way of Afghanistan, so it interested me immensely that it was there in the '20s.

    >The source of discontent in 2009 was actually Uighurs in the south moving to 90% Han/Hui Urumqi because there were no jobs in the Uighur heartland. The Uighur migrants went on a racial rampage in July 2009 through Urumqi.

    All I know about the '09 race riots was that they were triggered by an incident in Guangzhou where a couple of Uighur migrants were accused of raping a Han woman, which escalated into a full-on ethnic brawl. I wasn't anywhere close to the region at the time, so I didn't pay more attention than that. I have no idea what the truth is behind the incident: Muslim harassment of non-Muslim women and Han ethnic chauvinism are both real things, after all. But it sounds to me as though that's the proverbial match next to the gas leak you are describing.

    (It is worth mentioning that the guy who got the death sentence was a Han, which is hardly the behavior you'd expect of the "Beijing is compulsively irrational" crowd. This was over a decade ago, before things started to get a bit more ugly.)

    https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/world/asia/12china.html

    >If you take away the Islamic factor, the story of Uighurs in China is another conflict between an 85 IQ racial group up against a 100 IQ racial majority. China would be wise to have the emotional maturity to sever southwest Xinjiang and expel it from China as its own independent nation.

    You could contrast this to Singapore, which started out as a Malay sultanate and continues to have a Malay minority to this day. But there are very historical circumstances at work here. Xinjiang is a "relatively" new addition to the Chinese frontiers (it didn't have to be that way, but An Lushan...), whereas the notion of a Singaporean state is obviously a new construct after the British colonial period.

    That, and the Malays are a pretty tractable bunch, as far as Muslims go. Even so, you did see a bit of demographic transfer, with Singapore receiving waves of Malaysian Chinese throughout the 1970s and 1980s. That solidified demographics before birthrates went off a cliff.

    , @songbird
    @anonymous


    A resentful minority of 10 million is expensive to maintain and the problems will extend into the 22nd century.
     
    If the international rhetoric about Uighurs helps China to maintain national solidarity, then it is an asset, rather than a liability.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @anonymous

  50. @Wency
    @V. K. Ovelund

    My experience with actual top corporate leadership has been limited outside of extremely formal contexts, but I went to a reasonably elite MBA school, and most of my classmates went on to corporate work. None are CEOs of Fortune 500 companies yet (I follow practically the whole class on LinkedIn), but I believe some are on that path. There are some CFOs and COOs of smaller public companies now, and some have been promoted to impressive-sounding titles within middle management at various megacorps.

    My sense of this class of person is that most of them have a fairly high IQ, but they're intellectually incurious, mostly inclined to ask one question and one question only: "How is a successful businessman expected to comport himself?" and then mirror that personality as best as they can. I'll also say they seemed to be the type of person who, at least in that stage of life, was drawn to centers of money and power, whose eyes glimmered at the bright lights of places like NYC. I already knew at that age that I wanted to be as far away from places like NYC as possible.

    I met several people who had more mental horsepower than I did, but no one who was nearly as curious about the world as I was (or at least no one who was prepared to admit it). We never even talked politics, though admittedly the Great A-Wokening was just getting underway then. The culture was very surface-level, very dedicated to "Rolodex-building" as the old-timers say, so you wanted to have fun with people, not alienate them with controversy. This is unlike undergrad, where many of us were curious about the world and would get into deep conversations and debates outside class, maybe even engaging the professor outside class. In MBA school, unlike undergrad, everyone generally assumed the profs had little to teach them since they're academics and not businesspeople.

    Though again, maybe a lot of that was stage of life. Some of these people might have been more curious as undergrads, and maybe after MBA school they matured in a different direction. But I never really lost my curiosity, which might be part of what makes fatherhood so enjoyable. Sometimes I can relate better to kids and their 10,000 questions than all the adults who stopped asking any.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @anon, @Mark G., @V. K. Ovelund

    My sense of this class of person is that most of them have a fairly high IQ, but they’re intellectually incurious, mostly inclined to ask one question and one question only: “How is a successful businessman expected to comport himself?” and then mirror that personality as best as they can.

    Your comment (all if it, not only the quoted sentence) is the single most interesting, informative thing I have read during the month of April.

    What is weird is that The Wall Street Journal can no longer manage to publish insights like yours. You’d think they would, for that’s their beat, except that they’ve apparently been captured by their own feedback loop.

    I spent hours scouring the Journal for the answer to the question. No luck. There was a fair bit of sloppy, unconvincing career advice that looked like it was written while riding the New York subway, but nothing persuasive. And yet here you are, just giving the answer. That’s great.

    The elite MBA-school attitude you illuminate is one of the few things I have read about big-business executives that makes sense to me, for at MBA-school age (perhaps like many men at that stage of life) I too spent significant, conscious effort to mirror certain personalities. The scary thing is, had I been exposed to the specific kind of personality of which you speak, and had I the chops for it, then I can see myself mirroring it, too, just as you describe. Not good.

    • Replies: @Wency
    @V. K. Ovelund

    Thanks, glad that could be helpful.

    But one thing to add, note that my MBA school was in, I think, the #10-15 range. In the very top schools, there would usually be a lot fewer grads going into corporate management roles and a lot more going into private equity/venture capital, elite management consulting, and hedge funds.

    I believe the investor class (hedge funds, private equity) is generally a lot more intellectually curious than the rest of the corporate world, for several reasons. It's a line of work that exposes people to a lot more ideas and types of information, and also unlike the corporate world, it often rewards contrarian thinking (in which case it might even be helpful to go out of your way to signal how contrarian you are). Also, it's often work that relies more upon individual effort and less on cooperation among large teams. A lot fewer internal meetings, in other words.

  51. @Twinkie
    @Greta Handel


    Would Rosie’s initial comment upthread have been substantially addressed by Twinkie if posted by someone else?
     
    Yes.

    Replies: @Greta Handel

    Thanks. (And the blogger I recalled who prohibits anonymous comments is Anatoly Karlin.)

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Greta Handel

    I generally give earnest (and overly detailed) responses to commenters who appear to be sincere in their desire to discuss and debate, but am not above mocking - ever so occasionally - those commenters who continually engage in straw men and ad hominem.

  52. @V. K. Ovelund
    @Wency


    My sense of this class of person is that most of them have a fairly high IQ, but they’re intellectually incurious, mostly inclined to ask one question and one question only: “How is a successful businessman expected to comport himself?” and then mirror that personality as best as they can.
     
    Your comment (all if it, not only the quoted sentence) is the single most interesting, informative thing I have read during the month of April.

    What is weird is that The Wall Street Journal can no longer manage to publish insights like yours. You'd think they would, for that's their beat, except that they've apparently been captured by their own feedback loop.

    I spent hours scouring the Journal for the answer to the question. No luck. There was a fair bit of sloppy, unconvincing career advice that looked like it was written while riding the New York subway, but nothing persuasive. And yet here you are, just giving the answer. That's great.

    The elite MBA-school attitude you illuminate is one of the few things I have read about big-business executives that makes sense to me, for at MBA-school age (perhaps like many men at that stage of life) I too spent significant, conscious effort to mirror certain personalities. The scary thing is, had I been exposed to the specific kind of personality of which you speak, and had I the chops for it, then I can see myself mirroring it, too, just as you describe. Not good.

    Replies: @Wency

    Thanks, glad that could be helpful.

    But one thing to add, note that my MBA school was in, I think, the #10-15 range. In the very top schools, there would usually be a lot fewer grads going into corporate management roles and a lot more going into private equity/venture capital, elite management consulting, and hedge funds.

    I believe the investor class (hedge funds, private equity) is generally a lot more intellectually curious than the rest of the corporate world, for several reasons. It’s a line of work that exposes people to a lot more ideas and types of information, and also unlike the corporate world, it often rewards contrarian thinking (in which case it might even be helpful to go out of your way to signal how contrarian you are). Also, it’s often work that relies more upon individual effort and less on cooperation among large teams. A lot fewer internal meetings, in other words.

  53. A corporation that takes sides is intentionally offending a segment of its potential market.

    For Nike this is a pretty good risk. The primary consumers of hugely over priced “Air Jordan” sneakers fall in a politically one sided group. Those Nike intentionally offends were highly unlikely to buy the product.

    Gillette screwed up, offending a huge chunk of its consumers and has to recover its market share. Coca-Cola is next in line for self destruction: (1)

    37 Percent of Polled American Respondents Are Buying Less Coca-Cola Products

    Rasmussen has a poll released today highlighting the corporate risks involved in entering politics. Coca-Cola now discovering the cost of corporate wokeism as 37% of respondents say they are buying less product during boycott.

    Thirty-three percent (33%) of Black adults say they are less likely to buy Coca-Cola because of the company’s involvement in the Georgia election law controversy, as are 35% of White adults and 44% of other non-white adults

    Corporations get all sorts of special breaks from lawmakers. Perks benefiting Delta and Major League Baseball may be rescinded.

    Imagine what would happen if a non-Woke head of the Federal Reserve started publicly discussing “JP Morgan Chase is about to fail” as fact. A bank run with no support from the Fed…. Very messy.

    PEACE 😇
    ___________

    (1) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2021/04/22/37-percent-of-polled-american-respondents-are-buying-less-coca-cola-products/

    • Replies: @anon
    @A123

    Gillette screwed up, offending a huge chunk of its consumers and has to recover its market share.

    One article I read that I no longer can find asserted that Gillette lost $1 billion in a year thanks to that one Super Bowl advert. That's a lot of customers gone because of a handful of 20-something girlish SJW's. However, that loss did not materially affect the overall revenues of Proctor & Gamble. Yes, PG went back to trying to be more "manly" in their adverts, and losing some market share to entities like Dollar Shave Club may be part of the motivation.

    The stock price is still around $134 / share. PG is still a big company.

    https://finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=pg

    Global companies do not necessarily care all that much about one market. Even one as big as the US. Perhaps they are not solely motivated by profit? That's a fact many libertarians / conservatives have a difficult time with - GlobalHomo is not necessarily profit-driven. Entities like Di$ney are willing to take some losses if it advances an agenda. Even better if that happens while market share grows, sure, but it's not all about the money.

    Imagine what would happen if a non-Woke head of the Federal Reserve

    lol.

    Dude, John Lennon is still dead. Unicorns are mythical.

  54. @Caspar von Everec
    @songbird

    Just cancel their netflix. They'll be committing mass harikiri within the week

    Replies: @songbird

    I like the idea of using Netflix as a carrot.

    They spent an estimated $17 billion last year – chump change compared to a lot of social programs. My idea would be to use it to to encourage people to move to different areas.

    Relocate to Africa? Get free black Netflix, along with other perks. We will move the production of black American entertainment into Africa, to help generate jobs, as well as reduce the costs of production and increase volume.

  55. anon[364] • Disclaimer says:
    @A123
    A corporation that takes sides is intentionally offending a segment of its potential market.

    For Nike this is a pretty good risk. The primary consumers of hugely over priced "Air Jordan" sneakers fall in a politically one sided group. Those Nike intentionally offends were highly unlikely to buy the product.

    Gillette screwed up, offending a huge chunk of its consumers and has to recover its market share. Coca-Cola is next in line for self destruction: (1)


    37 Percent of Polled American Respondents Are Buying Less Coca-Cola Products

    Rasmussen has a poll released today highlighting the corporate risks involved in entering politics. Coca-Cola now discovering the cost of corporate wokeism as 37% of respondents say they are buying less product during boycott.

    Thirty-three percent (33%) of Black adults say they are less likely to buy Coca-Cola because of the company’s involvement in the Georgia election law controversy, as are 35% of White adults and 44% of other non-white adults
     

    Corporations get all sorts of special breaks from lawmakers. Perks benefiting Delta and Major League Baseball may be rescinded.

    Imagine what would happen if a non-Woke head of the Federal Reserve started publicly discussing "JP Morgan Chase is about to fail" as fact. A bank run with no support from the Fed.... Very messy.

    PEACE 😇
    ___________

    (1) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2021/04/22/37-percent-of-polled-american-respondents-are-buying-less-coca-cola-products/

    Replies: @anon

    Gillette screwed up, offending a huge chunk of its consumers and has to recover its market share.

    One article I read that I no longer can find asserted that Gillette lost $1 billion in a year thanks to that one Super Bowl advert. That’s a lot of customers gone because of a handful of 20-something girlish SJW’s. However, that loss did not materially affect the overall revenues of Proctor & Gamble. Yes, PG went back to trying to be more “manly” in their adverts, and losing some market share to entities like Dollar Shave Club may be part of the motivation.

    The stock price is still around $134 / share. PG is still a big company.

    https://finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=pg

    Global companies do not necessarily care all that much about one market. Even one as big as the US. Perhaps they are not solely motivated by profit? That’s a fact many libertarians / conservatives have a difficult time with – GlobalHomo is not necessarily profit-driven. Entities like Di$ney are willing to take some losses if it advances an agenda. Even better if that happens while market share grows, sure, but it’s not all about the money.

    Imagine what would happen if a non-Woke head of the Federal Reserve

    lol.

    Dude, John Lennon is still dead. Unicorns are mythical.

  56. @anonymous
    @nebulafox

    Ethnographic map of Xinjiang

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Xinjiang_nationalities_by_prefecture_2000.png/1024px-Xinjiang_nationalities_by_prefecture_2000.png

    I am not familiar with the 20th century history of the region but do have some knowledge of the current ethnographic situation from a global race relations perspective. At the start of the PRC, North Xinjiang was not very populated so it was settled by a lot of Han and Hui. The only major pocket of Uighurs in the north is around Turpan. The Uighurs living there should probably be classified as a different ethnic group as they get along with their neighbors a lot better than the main group of Uighurs in the southwest (no terrorist attacks in the north committed by Uighurs from the north have occurred). The settlement strategy in the more populated southwest was to create new cities in the desert to avoid clashes. The source of discontent in 2009 was actually Uighurs in the south moving to 90% Han/Hui Urumqi because there were no jobs in the Uighur heartland. The Uighur migrants went on a racial rampage in July 2009 through Urumqi.

    If you take away the Islamic factor, the story of Uighurs in China is another conflict between an 85 IQ racial group up against a 100 IQ racial majority. China would be wise to have the emotional maturity to sever southwest Xinjiang and expel it from China as its own independent nation. A resentful minority of 10 million is expensive to maintain and the problems will extend into the 22nd century. It is better to use the resources for a manned Mars mission or something else that can benefit humanity rather than buy the loyalty of a Muslim group.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @songbird

    OK, this is stuff I’m still learning, so don’t take it as gospel. That said, here goes.

    My own perception is that the Uighurs perceived their loyalty as being to the Qing dynasty as part of their liberation from the Dzungars. It wasn’t to the Chinese state in the abstract, less out of a sense of reluctance so much as largely because that concept of an ethno-national nation-state didn’t exist yet in the 1600s. I should emphasize that this just like other empires at the time: the Tsarist and Habsburg states worked similarly, with the former absorbing Muslims similarly to the Qing.

    When the dynasty finally died in 1911, they perceived themselves as free of any obligations to the Chinese state. Needless to say, the ROC felt differently. It’s an interesting display of old vs. new mentality. The ROC and later the Communists behaved liked a nation-state with inviolable borders: you know, what we moderns would be familiar with. Whereas the Uighurs-at least in 1911-were still thinking in terms of loyalty to a particular dynasty. Things have changed massively sense then, especially with the prominence of political Islam reviving after the 1980s, but there’s the original split.

    (Even then, it’s not like things were hunky-dory with all the Muslim rebellions of the late 19th Century, though it should be noted that this was right after the time of the Taiping and the Nian, so the Muslims weren’t the only people unhappy with the Manchus.)

    What I’d be particularly curious about learning is how the early ROC decades went, because that overlaps with the Islamic inspired rebellions during the fall of the Tsarist empire and the rise of the USSR. Was there any overlap? This was well before the post-1979 wave of Islamic global revivalism brought by way of Afghanistan, so it interested me immensely that it was there in the ’20s.

    >The source of discontent in 2009 was actually Uighurs in the south moving to 90% Han/Hui Urumqi because there were no jobs in the Uighur heartland. The Uighur migrants went on a racial rampage in July 2009 through Urumqi.

    All I know about the ’09 race riots was that they were triggered by an incident in Guangzhou where a couple of Uighur migrants were accused of raping a Han woman, which escalated into a full-on ethnic brawl. I wasn’t anywhere close to the region at the time, so I didn’t pay more attention than that. I have no idea what the truth is behind the incident: Muslim harassment of non-Muslim women and Han ethnic chauvinism are both real things, after all. But it sounds to me as though that’s the proverbial match next to the gas leak you are describing.

    (It is worth mentioning that the guy who got the death sentence was a Han, which is hardly the behavior you’d expect of the “Beijing is compulsively irrational” crowd. This was over a decade ago, before things started to get a bit more ugly.)

    https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/world/asia/12china.html

    >If you take away the Islamic factor, the story of Uighurs in China is another conflict between an 85 IQ racial group up against a 100 IQ racial majority. China would be wise to have the emotional maturity to sever southwest Xinjiang and expel it from China as its own independent nation.

    You could contrast this to Singapore, which started out as a Malay sultanate and continues to have a Malay minority to this day. But there are very historical circumstances at work here. Xinjiang is a “relatively” new addition to the Chinese frontiers (it didn’t have to be that way, but An Lushan…), whereas the notion of a Singaporean state is obviously a new construct after the British colonial period.

    That, and the Malays are a pretty tractable bunch, as far as Muslims go. Even so, you did see a bit of demographic transfer, with Singapore receiving waves of Malaysian Chinese throughout the 1970s and 1980s. That solidified demographics before birthrates went off a cliff.

  57. @anonymous
    @nebulafox

    Ethnographic map of Xinjiang

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Xinjiang_nationalities_by_prefecture_2000.png/1024px-Xinjiang_nationalities_by_prefecture_2000.png

    I am not familiar with the 20th century history of the region but do have some knowledge of the current ethnographic situation from a global race relations perspective. At the start of the PRC, North Xinjiang was not very populated so it was settled by a lot of Han and Hui. The only major pocket of Uighurs in the north is around Turpan. The Uighurs living there should probably be classified as a different ethnic group as they get along with their neighbors a lot better than the main group of Uighurs in the southwest (no terrorist attacks in the north committed by Uighurs from the north have occurred). The settlement strategy in the more populated southwest was to create new cities in the desert to avoid clashes. The source of discontent in 2009 was actually Uighurs in the south moving to 90% Han/Hui Urumqi because there were no jobs in the Uighur heartland. The Uighur migrants went on a racial rampage in July 2009 through Urumqi.

    If you take away the Islamic factor, the story of Uighurs in China is another conflict between an 85 IQ racial group up against a 100 IQ racial majority. China would be wise to have the emotional maturity to sever southwest Xinjiang and expel it from China as its own independent nation. A resentful minority of 10 million is expensive to maintain and the problems will extend into the 22nd century. It is better to use the resources for a manned Mars mission or something else that can benefit humanity rather than buy the loyalty of a Muslim group.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @songbird

    A resentful minority of 10 million is expensive to maintain and the problems will extend into the 22nd century.

    If the international rhetoric about Uighurs helps China to maintain national solidarity, then it is an asset, rather than a liability.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @songbird

    I don't think there's any reason for them to care. Muslim countries value Chinese investment a lot more than pan-Islamic solidarity when push comes to shove, as Pakistan and Turkey's behavior proves. It should also be noted that Muslim countries often have way more painful experiences with Islamic radicalism than the West does. Whatever the guy on the streets feels, the people in the government and the security services are a lot less likely to look dimly on Chinese zero tolerance policies there than than one might imagine, at least in most countries. (This isn't a hard and fast rule, of course. Junior officers in Pakistan, particularly in the ISI, are an example of people who are fully ideologically sympathetic.)

    As far as domestic messaging is concerned, my hunch is that the CCP is better off with the dislike of vaguely effeminate, nagging Europeans and blue Americans than their approval, and that they are probably smart enough to realize that.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @anonymous

    , @anonymous
    @songbird

    I think the attacks on Huawei and sowing division in Hong Kong by the US are very conducive to Chinese national solidarity. But the accusations about mistreating Uighurs are not helpful in uniting China. The effect is an uncertain defensiveness among Chinese that doesn't boost national pride.

  58. @songbird
    @anonymous


    A resentful minority of 10 million is expensive to maintain and the problems will extend into the 22nd century.
     
    If the international rhetoric about Uighurs helps China to maintain national solidarity, then it is an asset, rather than a liability.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @anonymous

    I don’t think there’s any reason for them to care. Muslim countries value Chinese investment a lot more than pan-Islamic solidarity when push comes to shove, as Pakistan and Turkey’s behavior proves. It should also be noted that Muslim countries often have way more painful experiences with Islamic radicalism than the West does. Whatever the guy on the streets feels, the people in the government and the security services are a lot less likely to look dimly on Chinese zero tolerance policies there than than one might imagine, at least in most countries. (This isn’t a hard and fast rule, of course. Junior officers in Pakistan, particularly in the ISI, are an example of people who are fully ideologically sympathetic.)

    As far as domestic messaging is concerned, my hunch is that the CCP is better off with the dislike of vaguely effeminate, nagging Europeans and blue Americans than their approval, and that they are probably smart enough to realize that.

    • Agree: songbird
    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @nebulafox

    (Not that this will stop them from using the baizuo in the Biden Administration who insist that the real threat to American power is a one-trick corrupt oil pony because Russia is ruled by Scary White Christian Caveman of Baizuo Nightmares. Oh no. But anybody who has spent a significant amount of time talking politics with mainlanders over drinks will fully understand how deeply mainland Chinese tend to hold their useful idiots and their values in contempt.

    How dumb do you have to be to get Tehran, Moscow, and Beijing to stick together? Pretty damned dumb, given their conflicting imperatives, but that's exactly what the geniuses in Washington have pulled off.)

    , @anonymous
    @nebulafox


    As far as domestic messaging is concerned, my hunch is that the CCP is better off with the dislike of vaguely effeminate, nagging Europeans and blue Americans than their approval, and that they are probably smart enough to realize that.
     
    The world's narratives are controlled by Western liberals. Influence over Western narratives are one of the top components of national power outside of hard forms like economic and military. If control of narratives is lost like with the Uighur genocide narrative then China will find itself eventually isolated by the entire rich world. There is recognition of power of Western narratives on the part of the Chinese government. They just aren't very good at influencing it.

    A totally separate area from influencing Western narratives is education in Western narratives for the young generation. In this regard, Chinese are not astute. Considering the large numbers of upper middle class Chinese who go to the US for undergraduate degrees, Western narratives are being adopted by a highly influential stratum who will eventually get the rest of China to adopt the ideas they learned. The Chinese government is not all-seeing and discerning even though some Chinese Internet users have come to identify the faults of the baizuo. Chinese can't resist a brand name American university. If the kids get accepted, they will be sent to the US to study. That's the end of the story.

    Harvard University however does China a great favor and is a model of an ideal relationship between China and a great American university. Harvard limits the intake of Chinese nationals to Harvard College at only 4 a year while there are thousands of grad students and visiting scholars from China at Harvard. That's a lot of knowledge transfer in every field and minimal baizuo learnings.
  59. @nebulafox
    @songbird

    I don't think there's any reason for them to care. Muslim countries value Chinese investment a lot more than pan-Islamic solidarity when push comes to shove, as Pakistan and Turkey's behavior proves. It should also be noted that Muslim countries often have way more painful experiences with Islamic radicalism than the West does. Whatever the guy on the streets feels, the people in the government and the security services are a lot less likely to look dimly on Chinese zero tolerance policies there than than one might imagine, at least in most countries. (This isn't a hard and fast rule, of course. Junior officers in Pakistan, particularly in the ISI, are an example of people who are fully ideologically sympathetic.)

    As far as domestic messaging is concerned, my hunch is that the CCP is better off with the dislike of vaguely effeminate, nagging Europeans and blue Americans than their approval, and that they are probably smart enough to realize that.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @anonymous

    (Not that this will stop them from using the baizuo in the Biden Administration who insist that the real threat to American power is a one-trick corrupt oil pony because Russia is ruled by Scary White Christian Caveman of Baizuo Nightmares. Oh no. But anybody who has spent a significant amount of time talking politics with mainlanders over drinks will fully understand how deeply mainland Chinese tend to hold their useful idiots and their values in contempt.

    How dumb do you have to be to get Tehran, Moscow, and Beijing to stick together? Pretty damned dumb, given their conflicting imperatives, but that’s exactly what the geniuses in Washington have pulled off.)

  60. @Greta Handel
    @Twinkie

    Thanks. (And the blogger I recalled who prohibits anonymous comments is Anatoly Karlin.)

    Replies: @Twinkie

    I generally give earnest (and overly detailed) responses to commenters who appear to be sincere in their desire to discuss and debate, but am not above mocking – ever so occasionally – those commenters who continually engage in straw men and ad hominem.

  61. @songbird
    @anonymous


    A resentful minority of 10 million is expensive to maintain and the problems will extend into the 22nd century.
     
    If the international rhetoric about Uighurs helps China to maintain national solidarity, then it is an asset, rather than a liability.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @anonymous

    I think the attacks on Huawei and sowing division in Hong Kong by the US are very conducive to Chinese national solidarity. But the accusations about mistreating Uighurs are not helpful in uniting China. The effect is an uncertain defensiveness among Chinese that doesn’t boost national pride.

  62. anonymous[569] • Disclaimer says:
    @nebulafox
    @songbird

    I don't think there's any reason for them to care. Muslim countries value Chinese investment a lot more than pan-Islamic solidarity when push comes to shove, as Pakistan and Turkey's behavior proves. It should also be noted that Muslim countries often have way more painful experiences with Islamic radicalism than the West does. Whatever the guy on the streets feels, the people in the government and the security services are a lot less likely to look dimly on Chinese zero tolerance policies there than than one might imagine, at least in most countries. (This isn't a hard and fast rule, of course. Junior officers in Pakistan, particularly in the ISI, are an example of people who are fully ideologically sympathetic.)

    As far as domestic messaging is concerned, my hunch is that the CCP is better off with the dislike of vaguely effeminate, nagging Europeans and blue Americans than their approval, and that they are probably smart enough to realize that.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @anonymous

    As far as domestic messaging is concerned, my hunch is that the CCP is better off with the dislike of vaguely effeminate, nagging Europeans and blue Americans than their approval, and that they are probably smart enough to realize that.

    The world’s narratives are controlled by Western liberals. Influence over Western narratives are one of the top components of national power outside of hard forms like economic and military. If control of narratives is lost like with the Uighur genocide narrative then China will find itself eventually isolated by the entire rich world. There is recognition of power of Western narratives on the part of the Chinese government. They just aren’t very good at influencing it.

    A totally separate area from influencing Western narratives is education in Western narratives for the young generation. In this regard, Chinese are not astute. Considering the large numbers of upper middle class Chinese who go to the US for undergraduate degrees, Western narratives are being adopted by a highly influential stratum who will eventually get the rest of China to adopt the ideas they learned. The Chinese government is not all-seeing and discerning even though some Chinese Internet users have come to identify the faults of the baizuo. Chinese can’t resist a brand name American university. If the kids get accepted, they will be sent to the US to study. That’s the end of the story.

    Harvard University however does China a great favor and is a model of an ideal relationship between China and a great American university. Harvard limits the intake of Chinese nationals to Harvard College at only 4 a year while there are thousands of grad students and visiting scholars from China at Harvard. That’s a lot of knowledge transfer in every field and minimal baizuo learnings.

  63. @Twinkie
    @Mark G.

    I pride myself on my personal library. At last count I had over a couple of thousand volumes, mostly on history (esp. military history) - I even won a prize in book collecting in college (the prize was a gift certificate to a local used bookstore). I thought I was pretty hot stuff as a bibliophile until I befriended an aristocratic powerbroker in D.C. The first time I was invited to his spacious apartment, I gasped when I saw every wall fully stocked with books from top to bottom. I recognized about half of his books in my own personal library and then they kept going. I shook his hand and said, "You win."

    Thank God, my children seemed to have taken to my love of (physical*) books. They can only watch TV for an hour or two at most and get bored, but they can sit down with a book and read for hours. My wife and I have to tell them to take breaks.

    *We tried a Kindle with them and they did not like it. I think there is something pleasing to the tactile nature of turning pages, feeling the paper on the fingers, and running the hand over maps and pictures in books, and perhaps even the scent of an aged book that the electronic media just cannot replicate.

    Replies: @RSDB

    *We tried a Kindle with them and they did not like it. I think there is something pleasing to the tactile nature of turning pages, feeling the paper on the fingers, and running the hand over maps and pictures in books, and perhaps even the scent of an aged book that the electronic media just cannot replicate.

    I read a fair amount on archive.org and Gutenberg or various other virtual means these days, and am forced to admit that there are some advantages to doing so; real books cost money and take up space, and virtual books can be searched easily. I never or at least rarely annotate books, so I don’t miss that.

    On the other hand with a physical book I have a record of what I have read that intrudes itself on me whether I like it or not, because I must store it and occasionally transport it, and I am often reminded of the contents of a book simply by glancing at the spine, while the contents of books I read virtually get mashed up into some single deposit somewhere in my memory. I think an ancient Greek method of memorization involved visualizing a physical space, almost like a sort of library (the phrase is “palace of memory” or “method of loci”), where data, thoughts, or images are stored; certainly having a spatialized mental world at hand, which is in a sense what a collection of physical books is, seems helpful to thought.

  64. @Twinkie
    @Rosie

    Daddy is talking with his friend. Go color with your crayons.

    Replies: @Rosie, @Audacious Epigone

    Is she incorrect? One major difference between corporatism–which is closer to what I think we have–and fascism is in the aesthetics. Not in terms of rather trivial things like architecture and uniforms, but in terms of what the power centers push on the population.

  65. @Wency
    On this survey in particular, it really is interesting how strong a predictor partisan affiliation is. I can't remember too many other topics where Democrat support was so much stronger than, say, youth support or black support.

    The thesis that the survey seems to support is that corporations *aren't* Woke because key demographics (i.e., the youth) require them to be in order to be "hip", that the kids these days won't buy chicken noodle soup if it isn't gay, which is an argument I've heard several people make. Instead, the survey suggests they're Woke in order to buy some measure of protection from Democratic politicians.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Audacious Epigone

    Instead, the survey suggests they’re Woke in order to buy some measure of protection from Democratic politicians.

    That’s one way to view whose is the whip hand.

    Alternatively, Democrat politicians will do whatever the corpotocracy demands they do. The only thing they ask of the corpotocracy in return is to be Woke, which they’re happy to do because it doesn’t cost them anything.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Audacious Epigone



    Instead, the survey suggests they’re Woke in order to buy some measure of protection from Democratic politicians.
     
    That’s one way to view whose is the whip hand. Alternatively, they’re Woke in order to ensure Democratic politicians do whatever the corpotocracy demands they do.
     
    Perhaps it doesn't really matter. Perhaps what matters is that politicians and the corporatocracy are in bed together, rather than which partner is the top and which partner is the bottom. What matters is that the sex is consensual and mutually pleasurable.
    , @anon
    @Audacious Epigone

    https://d279m997dpfwgl.cloudfront.net/wp/2018/02/0207_escher-02.jpg

  66. @Audacious Epigone
    @Wency

    Instead, the survey suggests they’re Woke in order to buy some measure of protection from Democratic politicians.

    That's one way to view whose is the whip hand.

    Alternatively, Democrat politicians will do whatever the corpotocracy demands they do. The only thing they ask of the corpotocracy in return is to be Woke, which they're happy to do because it doesn't cost them anything.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @anon

    Instead, the survey suggests they’re Woke in order to buy some measure of protection from Democratic politicians.

    That’s one way to view whose is the whip hand. Alternatively, they’re Woke in order to ensure Democratic politicians do whatever the corpotocracy demands they do.

    Perhaps it doesn’t really matter. Perhaps what matters is that politicians and the corporatocracy are in bed together, rather than which partner is the top and which partner is the bottom. What matters is that the sex is consensual and mutually pleasurable.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  67. @Audacious Epigone
    @Wency

    Instead, the survey suggests they’re Woke in order to buy some measure of protection from Democratic politicians.

    That's one way to view whose is the whip hand.

    Alternatively, Democrat politicians will do whatever the corpotocracy demands they do. The only thing they ask of the corpotocracy in return is to be Woke, which they're happy to do because it doesn't cost them anything.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @anon

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