The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersAudacious Epigone Blog
Wldm
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

It’s not okay to say white lives matter:

MANCHESTER, England (Reuters) – The Burnley fan who took responsibility for the “White Lives Matter Burnley” banner displayed from a plane above the Etihad Stadium has been fired from his job, British media reported on Wednesday.

It is okay to say, again and again, that white lives don’t matter:

It’s okay, but it’s not very optical. The smart ones aren’t going to utter things like that in public, let alone vociferously proclaim them (‘Doctor’ Gopal’s teaching and research interests are “in colonial and postcolonial literature and theory, gender and feminism, Marxism and critical race studies”).

If I were a guerrilla-posting dissident, I’d consider pivoting from painting the town monochrome in “White lives matter” to doing so with “Whites lives don’t matter”.

 
Hide 89 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. nebulafox says:

    A year ago, I would have suggested that the leaflets around high schools and colleges that said “It’s OK to be white” should have been immediately followed up in the aftermath with another round that said “Is it OK to be white?”. These people are very easily trolled.

    Nowadays, though, I wouldn’t want a kid to have his life ruined now that the NYT is actively praising kids doxxing each other. So, yeah. Not so much.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  2. songbird says:

    I abhor the term “white” in a European context. It is obviously cultivated as a weapon. It has no historical foundation there – no possible excuse to justify its use. Within a European context, there are only Europeans and non-Europeans. Both groups can divided into progressively more granular forms featuring diverse traits, and it is often useful to divide them, but there simply are no non-white Europeans, and there is zero legitimacy for using European ethnic terms for non-Europeans. Therefore, “white” is both superfluous and pernicious.

    BTW, Bopal is a colonist, if there ever was one. The English should strive to tolerate her as much as Gandhi tolerated the English ruling Indians.

  3. Dumbo says:

    Non-White people are full of envy and resentment. Because they will never be White.
    That’s all there is, really. This Indian bitch would give all her money to become white as snow.
    “If you can’t join them, kill them”.

    • Agree: Ian Smith
    • Troll: Hacienda, JohnPlywood
    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
  4. @songbird

    You may abhor it but people in Europe haven’t for the last 500 years

    • Agree: Red Pill Angel
    • Replies: @songbird
  5. Twinkie says:

    painting the town monochrome… with “Whites lives don’t matter”.

    Yup. Exactly. That’s the white version of the noose hanging everywhere, only more plausible given that it’s actually said in public and leads to an apparent promotion.

    One of the effective techniques of insurgency is inviting (provoking) your enemy – those in charge – to behave in an ever more oppressive and tyrannical manner. Then the population at large becomes a vast sea in which you are the fish (to paraphrase Mao Tse-Tung).

    The only cautionary note is that it’s much better if the enemy actually does the painting for you. You don’t want be seen in a video footage and be caught with paint residue.

  6. Dr. Doom says:

    These idiots are just lemmings going along with what they see as The System’s Rules.

    They know they are just there for quotas and not for ability.

    This genocidal Anti-White rhetoric come from Zionists.

    We need to talk about Zionist Supremacy.

    And not just here on Unz.

    E V E R Y W H E R E . . .

  7. neutral says:

    I don’t think any here would doubt the predictable outcome if she made a tweet saying “jewish lives don’t matter”, the university defending her for that would also obviously not happen.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  8. songbird says:
    @Kent Nationalist

    Really, when have Europeans in Europe called themselves “white”, before The Guardian started using the term? I don’t mean as an adjective. I mean as a noun, and as a primary identity. And I’m talking about average people, not poets, or abolitionists, the latter who I consider to be radicals. Or former colonists – as the empire wasn’t much in the minds of average people. “How old is the term on the UK census?” is what I essentially mean.

    In the US, of course, the word was regularly used to help distinguish those who weren’t black. It had the second purpose of dissolving white people’s ethnic identity, so they could form a new identity – American – which, originally, in its primary context, wasn’t multicult, or transracial and which encompassed an actual culture. Though, I doubt that it was universally drilled into people’s consciousness in the way it is today, since the North was overwhelmingly white and segregation there wasn’t really a thing, for the most part.

    In Europe, it seems to be used to coin terms like “white British” or “white Irish.” I can’t see a plausible argument for its beneficial use. It seems meant to be a pejorative to promote affirmative action as well as to reduce ethnicities to geographic terms, in order to promote open borders, into Europe.

    Do you actually like the term, or are you speaking in an impersonal sense? Speaking personally, as an American, I’d chose to ditch the term in America in 2020 and replace it with “Euro” or “European.” I’ve heard it used with incredible bile in the open in official settings, and I think the shortness of the word much assists its use as a weapon.

    • Agree: Lockean Proviso, utu
    • Disagree: Cloudbuster
    • Replies: @Red Pill Angel
    , @Ray P
  9. Nodwink says:

    As something of a nihilist & misanthrope, this is my view on this:

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Delta G
  10. Anon[127] • Disclaimer says:

    P. Gopal is stewing with jealous hatred over the delicate beauty of white English women. Thats really all that fuels her rage.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  11. @Twinkie

    > Then the population at large becomes a vast sea in which you are the fish (to paraphrase Mao Tse-Tung).

    Boomers really be out here quoting Mao like they aren’t gonna rat out the young white fugitive who knocks on their door looking for help after doing some direct action.

    • Replies: @Red Pill Angel
  12. @songbird

    They created a fake identity label and so then they attack people nobody wants to organize a collective defense because the victims don’t care about the fake label, Right wing says whites people don’t stand up for their race because afraid of being called racist but actually it’s because nobody want to fight and die for “white people” – who cares? They trained their people to paint targets and attack victims based on a thing the victims didn’t really care about.

    But trying to track down the real identities and fight under those banners “we’re europeans!” Is not gonna work. We’re going to have to fight under the flag we have which is white people. It’s a half baked identity but it’s what we have. This is the early stage of hang together or hang separately.

    One thing we can try is put wedges between white lib officers and their non-white enlisted. Flying the flag of white people could help that — make the white libs have to explain why they don’t count as white.

    Again and again – black people are not the problem here. This is a white vs white race war

    40 million non college whites not registered to vote

    • Agree: Red Pill Angel
  13. @songbird

    Using the term European instead of white? Whatever happened to the old-fashioned term, “Caucasian,” by which criteria – a pointy, pointy skull – even Ms. Gopal might qualify?

    There are all kinds of ideas floating, such as using one’s specific European ethnicity, but none is going to save us when [email protected]&$ 12 starts. Ditching the term “white” plays into the hands of hate-riddled POC voices arguing that whites shouldn’t even exist; not to mention the scientific idiocy that races don’t exist, but POC still do. All these alternate ideas end up being new ways of erasing white people. The sooner we figure this out, the better.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  14. @Not my Economy

    You can come to my house, little dude. What’s the password?

  15. Neuday says:
    @songbird

    You say you abhor the term “White”, but admit there are no non-White Europeans. Are there any “Whites” not of European heritage?

    What terminology do you prefer? Lives of People of Northern European Extraction Matter doesn’t flow off the tongue.

    While the descendants of various African tribes use “Black” as an identity and solidify, we Whites will endlessly argue about terminology and never coalesce. Idiotic.

    • Agree: Red Pill Angel
    • Replies: @songbird
    , @V. Hickel
    , @dfordoom
  16. Talha says:

    Well this is good news, she must have gotten enough backlash to warrant making her account private:

    Peace.

    • Replies: @songbird
  17. Talha says:

    LOOOL!!!

    “Noooooo! I like white people, they got the best customer service!!!”

    Peace.

  18. songbird says:
    @Neuday

    You say you abhor the term “White”, but admit there are no non-White Europeans.

    Using the term to describe skin-color in a superficial way is very different from promoting it as an ethnic identifier. I have no problem with a phrase like “her neck, it was just like a swan” – I’m not that autistic. But I do have a problem with it being used to rob children of their heritage, to pretend as though they have no history, no culture, or no home, or that they should be ashamed and without pride.

    What terminology do you prefer?

    Already addressed. In a broad sense, “European” or “Euro.” It is fairly short and manageable and has wide recognition. Let me say, I think we should seek out meta-ethnic identifiers, on a global level. I think others would benefit from them, as well. I have previously proposed a symposium of people from the Sub-continent, where they could agree on a general name.

    Are there any “Whites” not of European heritage?

    Honestly, this seems like a silly question to me. It is in the liberal vein of perpetually trying to find fuzzy borders. (Ex: some women can benchpress 300 lbs!) Always dishonest – they pretend there are no races, but not when it can be used to gain power – then they never hesitate to pull the trigger. I could give you my personal definition, but what is the point? Who genuinely cares about the issue? Are the Caucuses under some massive, unprecedented invasion? Are they numerous, powerful, and inclined to be vociferous allies? It is a question for anthropologists! It is not an important political question, outside of immigration, and the ability to integrate into European culture. Anyway, what we are seeing is a flight from white. Hispanics fled from the term. Arabs are fleeing from the term.

    While the descendants of various African tribes use “Black” as an identity and solidify

    I think the truth is rather the opposite. Africa has nothing close to the unity of Europeans. If you are talking about elsewhere, then the descriptor has changed over the decades and is largely irrelevant to the political unity of blacks, where relevant (not in Haiti!). But it might be supposed that there is a certain political unity developed from people in the West being non-white. Witness Gopal being energized by BLM.

    • Replies: @Charlotte
  19. songbird says:
    @Talha

    Better to have it out in the open, IMO. This is what she is teaching impressionable minds, and I doubt she has changed her tune on that level.

    • Replies: @Talha
  20. Talha says:
    @songbird

    Well, sometimes maybe you just need to take a break from saving the world:

    Peace.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @Mr. Rational
  21. songbird says:
    @Talha

    I swear, if the rainbow is not reclaimed 50 years from now, something drastic should be done about it. A ban on the flag – perhaps that would be sufficient. If not, it seems like a religious argument could be made for banning it’s depiction, in general.

    Perhaps, one could put the origin of the whole phenomenon in an Arab context. I imagine that desert Arabs see few rainbows. Europe, much wetter and greener, probably has a lot of rainbows, in contrast. It is almost like the land encouraged it – geodeterminism. The fatter, wetter land encouraged more parasitism – just as there are more parasitic diseases in the tropics.

    I bet anything that the desert sun also takes the brightness out of any colored cloth. Makes it more difficult to signal.

    • Replies: @Talha
  22. I swear, if the rainbow is not reclaimed 50 years from now, something drastic should be done about it.

    Don’t worry, the Left’s pets will free it up to be recycled into something more appropriate when they finish tossing the last LGBTQ type off a rooftop within the next decade or so.

  23. V. Hickel says:
    @Neuday

    perhaps not, but unfortunately there are now many “europeans’ who are not white.

    • Replies: @Neuday
  24. Talha says:
    @songbird

    If not, it seems like a religious argument could be made for banning it’s depiction, in general.

    Possibly, but you’d need a state that has a religion as a foundational basis for drafting laws to be able to pull it off. You gotta walk before you can run.

    I imagine that desert Arabs see few rainbows.

    Happens, but is rare:

    Peace.

    • Replies: @songbird
  25. songbird says:
    @Talha

    Possibly, but you’d need a state that has a religion as a foundational basis for drafting laws to be able to pull it off. You gotta walk before you can run.

    I’m increasingly convinced that, sooner or later, faith will make a return to the West. It may be a slow process – and it may require things to get a lot worse. But, at the end of the day, there is no substitute for it.

    • Agree: Talha
    • Replies: @Talha
    , @dfordoom
  26. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Red Pill Angel

    Whatever happened to the old-fashioned term, “Caucasian,” by which criteria – a pointy, pointy skull – even Ms. Gopal might qualify?

    Caucasian Lives Matter.

  27. This comment section shows why freedom of speech is useless. Imagine a bunch of religious, self-proclaimed conservative adults arguing about the word “white” and the symbolism of rainbows — as their elected government is actively implementing policies they don’t like, and their religions are burning to the ground.

    If I were a mod here, this entire comment section would be deleted, and the following activities banned:

    – Discussions about nouns

    – Babbling about the symbolic significance of rainbows and the need to “reclaim” them

    – Defending the religion, heritage and “rights” of others, when the majority of people will happily dispose of these things for themselves when the opportunity arises

    Etc.

    • Agree: Lowe
  28. @Dumbo

    Wishful thinking.

    White women spend more money and time trying to look brown, than all races of POC women globally spend trying to look “white”, combined.

    And there’s good reason for that. White women rank near the bottom of the female sexual hierarchy.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  29. dfordoom says: • Website

    Why not try a few slogans that will make things awkward for liberals?

    Caucasian Lives Matter.

    Working Class Lives Matter.

    Poor People’s Lives Matter.

    Women’s Lives Matter (let liberals then decide whether to agree or whether they’re prepared to say that white women’s lives don’t matter).

    • Replies: @216
  30. Charlotte says:
    @songbird

    Kind of OT, but I read somewhere, in context of George Floyd riots, that at least some Minneapolis Somalis don’t consider themselves black. As we get more African immigrants, I wonder if we’ll see more of that. Probably won’t do whites much good, though.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    , @songbird
  31. 216 says:

    Where are the red state legislatures?

    Sitting back and grilling

    Where is Trump?

    Monitoring the situation

    Where should we be?

    Nationalizing

  32. 216 says:
    @dfordoom

    90% of police deaths are male.

    Male Lives Matter

  33. Twinkie says:
    @Anon

    delicate beauty of white English women

    I dearly wish that were true, but the obesity rate is pretty high in England too.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_Kingdom#Comparison_within_Europe

    According to the Global Burden of Disease Study published in 2013, the United Kingdom had proportionately more obese and overweight adults than anywhere in western Europe with the exception of Iceland and Malta. Using data from 1980 to 2013, in the UK 66.6% of men and 52.7% of women were found to be either overweight or obese. The figures for Malta were 74.0% of men and 57.8% of women and for Iceland were 73.6% of men and 60.9% of women respectively.[49]

    The UK had the fifth highest rate of obesity in Europe in 2015. 24.9% of the adult population had a body mass index of 30 or more.[50] In 2016 according to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development nearly 27% of adults in the United Kingdom were obese, the highest proportion in Western Europe and a 92% increase since 1996.[51]

  34. @Twinkie

    Not only can we not even agree on being White, we are ridiculously obsessed with thinness. Fifty years of diet books written by Jewish doctors and Jane Fonda’s exercise routines hasn’t worked. Meanwhile, black people, fat or not, are still having sex and making babies. When the SHTF we’ll all thin down fast enough. First, in the 20th century, came the West’s gay obsession with thinness, then the obesity epidemic, and now our descent into self-hatred and madness.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @Hearts on Fire
  35. @Red Pill Angel

    lmao the password is ‘honeypot’

    • LOL: Red Pill Angel
  36. @nebulafox

    Would someone be ruined for physically posting what this Cambridge academic digitally posted? What a nightmare that would create for the Woke–someone gets destroyed for attacking whites at the Wokeism’s behest?

    • Replies: @Julian of Norwich
  37. @Twinkie

    Even the public pillorying would be difficult though, wouldn’t it? Especially so if the culprit isn’t a known quantity.

  38. @neutral

    Another guerrilla opportunity:

    “White and Jewish lives don’t matter” or “Jewish white lives don’t matter” etc

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    , @songbird
  39. @Twinkie

    Obesity is the least impressive of English women’s many defects. Like all Western European females they have skin that looks and feels like 120 grit sandpaper.

    This Indian broad is scarecely any uglier than the average Englishtart. Instead, Dumbo and Anon are coping white women, probably Jewish, who can’t handle the fact that they are outclassed by foreign women in their own countries.

  40. nebulafox says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    “Schrodinger’s whiteness” is not going to be viable for American Jews, long-term. Neither will POC identification: don’t let the gerontocratic nature of politics in the US and official media statements give you a false impression. Younger generations of the woke increasingly see them as the whitest of all white people. Nor are they as integral as they used to be, as Asians have largely replaced them, whether in science/tech (East) or in media/law (South), and this will have an effect. I suspect part of the AA fanaticism is a last ditch effort to keep elite schools from being flooded with East Asians, Deplorables, and other disfavored demographics (I don’t think they are any fonder of Eastern European immigrants) from lower socioeconomic strata who could pose a true ideological threat along with professional competition, but elite schools throw their credibility and societal standing away like confetti anyway, so let them.

    In Europe, this has already happened. The well documented right-wing voting patterns of Jews who aren’t choosing to emigrate to Israel from France or the UK show that. I don’t think we’ll see an analogue in the US because our Muslim contingent is much smaller and more geographically dispersed than in Europe, though: Hispanics and Asians might lack the over-the-top Judeophilia of gentile American whites, but there also isn’t real hatred, more indifference to them as just a particularly affluent, left-wing white demographic. So instead I think you are going to see cognitive dissonance continue even as the emperor is naked. It’s like normal white-leftist syndrome, just more frequent and extreme.

    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
    , @Talha
  41. nebulafox says:
    @Charlotte

    Actual Africans consider black Americans to be wholly American, because… well, they are, in their own way. I’m sure you get your converted SJW grifter contingent like just every other immigrant group in the US in the 21st Century, but I’ve met a few Nigerians in high-octane STEM, and to a man they all expressed befuddlement at the idea that they were supposed to view black Americans axiomatically as kin. Granted, these guys were highly selected based on education and IQ, but the point still stands.

    (It’s a deeply sad statement to make, but the inner cities of Detroit and New Orleans have higher rates of functional illiteracy than most of sub-Saharan Africa now. How’s that for a kick in the nads?)

    This should all be blatantly obvious: of course they have even less of a connection to Africa than white Americans do to Europe given the time they’ve been here and the circumstances of arrival. It speaks volumes about modern historical orthodoxy that this is even vaguely controversial.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  42. Neuday says:
    @V. Hickel

    They might reside in a European country, but that doesn’t mean they’re part of that nation. If I live in China for 5 years, am I Chinese? Of course not. It’s laughable. We need to deal with reality, not semantics and talmudic interpretations.

  43. @nebulafox

    You are wrong. Jewish men have an incredibly high rate of intermarriage with Asian and Hispanic females. This is the source of much derision from white/Jewish women like Dumbo and Anon. Just drive by a Jewish school or any upper middle class neighborhood with Jews, half the Jewish kids are half Asian (and in areas with lots of Mexicans, at least one-sixth Mexican). In 50 years the last secular 100% Jewish child will be born, and that person, if they reproduce at all, will have mixed kids. Jews and Asians are inseparable, much to the chagrin of women like Dumbo.

  44. Talha says:
    @songbird

    Good map for reference…let’s see if the colors in Europe start to change over time (it’s as good a metric as any):

    Peace.

  45. songbird says:
    @Charlotte

    I haven’t heard a lot of reporting about Somalis during the riots, though I was very curious what they were doing.

    Somalis are an interesting group. Right next to Ethiopia, which is often considered the most civilized part of sub-Saharan Africa. (Of course, different terrain.) It is an fascinating question how much the two groups vary when removed from their respective environments.

    • Replies: @Talha
  46. Talha says:
    @nebulafox

    “Schrodinger’s whiteness”

    LOOOOOOL!!!!!

    I am going to lift that one from you my man! Classic!

    Peace.

  47. Talha says:
    @songbird

    I can attest to quite a bit of Somalis being adamant that they are not black (not all, but it depends on who you are dealing with). Many of them say stuff that no white person would say with their photo/image attached to the comment. I am not kidding.

    Peace.

    • Thanks: songbird
  48. songbird says:
    @Talha

    I wonder how many of these were court decisions. I know they had a lot to do with the legalization of gay marriage.

    BTW, Pretty shocking that the PM of Serbia is now a lesbian. On a related note, I’m fascinated by the position of Turkmenistan and PNG. I suppose that, in the wider world, they would both be considered oddball cultures, and so not easy to study on this issue. But lesbians often seem like aggressive revolutionaries. It would be interesting if they were somehow constrained by holding up the ban on male homosexual activity.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  49. nebulafox says:
    @JohnPlywood

    Good point. Anybody who has experienced dating an American Jewish woman can see why. Also, given Jewish affluence, it is more common with Asian women, IMO. Hispanic women tend to marry downwardly mobile middle-class white guys.

    The dynamics of identification here are what matters. I suspect that 60 years ago, they would have every effort to pass off as “white”. It’s probably the opposite now, at least in the UMC bracket. But what happens when the lumpenproletariat you’ve egged on decides to go after you? I don’t think having an Asian parent is going to matter: if you’ve got pale skin, it’ll be enough. The cultural leftists think they are going to be immune from what they are stoking, and they are delusional.

  50. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Neuday

    While the descendants of various African tribes use “Black” as an identity and solidify, we Whites will endlessly argue about terminology and never coalesce. Idiotic.

    Are you really sure that playing the racial identity politics game is a good idea? Isn’t that exactly what the Woke and the SJWs are hoping that whites will do? Because the Woke/SJWs know that that is a game they’re guaranteed to win.

    Is it a smart move to do exactly what your enemies want you to do?

    • Replies: @Neuday
  51. Twinkie says:
    @JohnPlywood

    Your graphs don’t capture the class-based nature (segmentation) of partner desirability. For example, according to the right graph, black men are more desirable than Hispanic or Asian men, but intermarriage rates say otherwise. Take a look on any major university campus, you’ll see that HMWF or AMWF pairings are far more common than BMWF pairings, even accounting for demographic composition. Indeed, the latter is overwhelmingly a lower socio-economic profile phenomenon.

    In reality, upscale white women and high status Asian men are quite desirable… because upscale/high status people are desirable, period. And whites and Asians make up most of the high status segment of the population in the U.S. And contrary to the outward negrophila sweeping the country today, black men and women are largely deemed as disfavored partners by non-blacks, male and female.

    Cognitive and economic assortative mating means that upscale whites and Asians pair with one another at high rates, downscale whites and Hispanics do so, and only very low end whites, Hispanics, and Asians do so with blacks, excepting very few high quality blacks.

    • Agree: Red Pill Angel, Mark G.
    • Replies: @dfordoom
  52. Twinkie says:
    @Red Pill Angel

    we are ridiculously obsessed with thinness.

    1. Because obesity has skyrocketed, making thinness much more scarce and therefore desirable.

    2. Among whites, obesity disproportionately manifests among downscale females, meaning thinness has become a class marker among white women.

    • Agree: Red Pill Angel
  53. dfordoom says: • Website
    @songbird

    I’m increasingly convinced that, sooner or later, faith will make a return to the West. It may be a slow process – and it may require things to get a lot worse. But, at the end of the day, there is no substitute for it.

    The West needs to have faith in something. Everybody (or at least most people) needs to have faith in something. But I’m pretty sure it’s not going to be Christianity. You can’t go back. It will have to be something new.

    Whatever the West does find to believe in we have to accept that it might well turn out to be something very very unpleasant. The fanaticism of the SJW/Woke mobs may be a foretaste of things to come. If an alternative to SJW/Wokeism arises it might be even worse. The West’s track record isn’t very good. The mid-20th century gave us a taste of how new belief systems can turn out in practice.

    It’s also worth looking at the Second World War. Despite all its horrors it did not lead to a resurgence of religion in general or Christianity in particular. Quite the opposite. It led to the final collapse of Christianity in western Europe.

  54. dfordoom says: • Website
    @songbird

    But lesbians often seem like aggressive revolutionaries.

    There are lesbians and then there are lesbians. Back in the 70s/80s there was a huge divide between the political lesbians (who often turned out to be closet heterosexuals) and the bar dykes (which is what they called themselves). The bar dykes just wanted to have sex with women. Most of them were apolitical and most of them got along extremely well with men.

    I suspect that there’s still a big divide between the politically motivated lesbians (for whom lesbianism is almost entirely a political choice) and the real lesbians who happen to be sexually attracted to women.

    There also used to be an enormous difference between the butches and the femmes.

    My guess is that three-quarters of those who currently identify as lesbian are not lesbians in any meaningful sense of the word.

  55. nebulafox says:
    @dfordoom

    >The West’s track record isn’t very good. The mid-20th century gave us a taste of how new belief systems can turn out in practice.

    It’s no different outside the West: the likes of Cultural Revolution-era China or Khmer Rouge-era Cambodia show that.

    • Agree: Talha
    • Replies: @dfordoom
  56. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Twinkie

    In reality, upscale white women and high status Asian men are quite desirable… because upscale/high status people are desirable, period.

    A very good pooint.

    Also, middle-class white women who marry black men are quite likely to marry wealthy, well-educated, high-status middle-class black men who don’t do drugs. And middle-class white men who find black women desirable are probably thinking of the kinds of exquisitely groomed, well educated black women who become models (who are almost always slim and quite attractive).

    Class is indeed overwhelmingly the most important factor for most people when choosing a spouse.

    • Replies: @Talha
  57. dfordoom says: • Website
    @nebulafox

    >The West’s track record isn’t very good. The mid-20th century gave us a taste of how new belief systems can turn out in practice.

    It’s no different outside the West: the likes of Cultural Revolution-era China or Khmer Rouge-era Cambodia show that.

    Yes, that’s true enough. The track record of new belief systems in the past century is not very good anywhere.

  58. @dfordoom

    It’s increasing my faith, because events seem to be indicative that these are the ‘last days’ (years, probably). I see widespread and deep hostility to truth and to dignity, widespread exultance in selfish gratification, perversion (in the most literal sense) and wickedness, and a rapid rise in authoritarian sentiments on both left and right. Conditions are ripe for more hatreds and persecution, followed and then facilitated by a New World Order that will offer to heal our divisions with deceptive authoritarian “unity.”. Heretics who don’t agree will be rounded on by many. Looking at what is transpiring now, remember that institutional power is corrupted and not concerned with truth, liberty, or individual dignity: political, business, cultural, media, religious, and global institutions are preoccupied with maintaining or growing power. Beware of institutions offering false unity at the cost of individual freedom of conscience. Things will probably get worse and worse.

    However much they disagree, many here are truthseekers and this site is a shadowbanned enclave for which I am grateful. How long it will be allowed to continue or whether those who comment at it will suffer consequences, I don’t know.

    • Agree: Red Pill Angel
  59. @JohnPlywood

    Jews and Asians are inseparable

    So that’s why our Jewish elites have been fine with facilitating America’s decline and the rise of China. They believe that they can jump ship if they like, sharing a cultural (and relational) affinity with the Han for being an extractive hegemonic elite around the world. Great. The Beijing Genomics Institute has already sequenced the genomes of many of our top scientists and academics as part of their intelligence research and replication project, so who needs us gullible goyim anymore? Time to cancel whiteness, or at least get it out of the way.

    Israel and China a ‘Marriage Made in Heaven,’ Says Netanyahu

    https://thediplomat.com/2017/03/israel-and-china-a-marriage-made-in-heaven-says-netanyahu/

  60. Stogumber says:

    “White lives don’t matter” describes an important part of our reality – so it would fit as a useful slogan for Whites. If necessary we could add “White lives don’t matter (for them)” – but is this addition still needed?

  61. Talha says:
    @dfordoom

    And middle-class white men who find black women desirable are probably thinking of the kinds of exquisitely groomed

    I’ve known a few white brothers that have married Somali sisters (they seem to be the pick of the litter) and their kids are quite beautiful/handsome – the results are actually a very aesthetic combination if you get a good-looking white guy and a good-looking Somali sister together.

    One brother I knew, very nice guy but came from what people would like call “white trash” background, married a Somali sister and this lady is something you read about in books. He would talk to me when I’d pick him up to carpool to Friday prayers and he told me; she would never fight with him, never complain (even though they were always in financial hardship and lived in whatever circumstances he could afford), always back him in his ideas/visions of what he wanted to do, great mother, great cook, always encourage him to go to see his parents or keep up family relations, treated his parents with a tremendous amount of respect – you read about that kind of thing in medieval advice books on what-makes-a-good-wife. And, I kid you not, she didn’t speak any English when they got married – it was arranged for him through the wider community; he was looking for a wife, she was looking for a husband.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  62. ” . . . . she would never fight with him, never complain (even though they were always in financial hardship and lived in whatever circumstances he could afford), always back him in his ideas/visions of what he wanted to do, great mother, great cook, always encourage him to go to see his parents or keep up family relations, treated his parents with a tremendous amount of respect – you read about that kind of thing in medieval advice books on what-makes-a-good-wife.”

    Well, I wouldn’t call proverbs 31 Midevil.

    • Replies: @Talha
  63. @Audacious Epigone

    It seems to me that Professor Gopal’s posting is a carefully crafted piece of self-serving sophistry, the all too common product of a dedicated academic self-publicist, who is desperate to establish her credentials as a radical critic of European culture and defender of supposedly oppressed minorities.

    The comment is designed to evoke admiration from the self-righteous ranks of the woke, while simultaneously attracting an avalanche of criticism from those who value their European identity and culture. Thus, she is able to appear both a brave advocate for the downtrodden and a victim of white oppression herself.

    If we examine the content and configuration of the posting, her intentions become obvious. The opening sentences have the appearance of a forthright and uncompromising statement about the valueless nature of white lives. A brave rhetorical challenge to white supremacists everywhere.

    But she knows that, if her statement were left to stand unqualified, she herself would be open to accusations of racism, potentially jeopardising her prospects for academic promotion. So, leaving a space after the opening line, she adds the qualifier ‘As white lives.’

    This isn’t accidental. It allows her to say, if challenged, that she wasn’t in fact saying that white people’s lives are valueless, rather that their value doesn’t derive from the whiteness of their skin or the nature of white culture. A simple restatement of the universal nature of the moral principle that all human lives matter.

    Thus, she makes her comment intellectually defensible by resorting to a moral principle first rigorously propounded by a dead, white, European, male named Immanuel Kant. Kant was, of course, right. If black lives, or white lives, or yellow lives, or brown lives like Professor Gopal’s matter, it is because all lives matter.

    A shabby stunt, and apparently an effective one, since she was subsequently awarded her professorship.

    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  64. “White” lives don’t matter because “white” is merely a social justification for oppression of others and is only tangentially related to skin colour.

    Saying “white lives matter” is exactly synonymous, given history, with saying that racism should thrive. It shouldn’t, and anyone who identifies as “white” is therefore racist.

    Of course, anyone who a Person of Colour identifies as “white” is also racist because People of Colour are victims of racism, because they are not “white”, so they know what racists look like, though it obviously has nothing to do with looks and everything to do with power and prejudice.

    “White” is different from Black because Black denotes an ancestry, heritage and culture, formed in the victimhood of slavery. It is also a long-established and amazing culture from before slavery, that was purposefully destroyed by “white” racism in order to create “white” racism. This was the original sin, it always existed, even before its own creation.

    This all means that when a Black man beats to death a “white” woman, not that any ever have, while screaming about her being a “white” devil, which would never happen, that is not racism.

    Racism, you must agree, is prejudice plus power; and since the beaten to death “white” woman obviously has all of the power, she cannot be a victim of racism. She isn’t even a victim of prejudice, as attacking “whiteness” is fighting oppression. Her family should demand that all “white” people are put on trial for her death.

    Anyone who disagrees with the above is racist, and will be expelled from society, because they have monopolised all of the power in society.

    Furthermore, anyone who doesn’t affirm this, must also be expelled for the same reason as “white” silence is racist violence.

    Finally, anyone who doesn’t write their own version of this essay and tell everyone constantly, while also never speaking over, or around, People of Colour, must be expelled for even more racism, as that is the most insidious wrecking of all.

    A person who is identified as “white” is the most racist when they deny their racism. That, indeed, is the strongest proof of their evil. They are also even more racist when they don’t write essays like these exclaiming their hideous racism.

    These facts, which are science, along with laws to crush people who identify, or are identified, as “white”, is the only way we can have a just, fair and antiracist society, just like all of those societies where there are very few “white” people. “Whiteness” needs to be abolished, along with anyone who can be identified as “white”. Any “white” person who claims to be hurt in this process only has their own “whiteness” to blame. They are the oppressor and are responsible for everything bad, and nothing good, except the not actually bad, but really very good thing, of their extinguishment. Such is liberation.

    I hope this is all clear. Now write your own version of this and send it on to at least ten people or Bloody Mary will come and kill you.

  65. Talha says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Acknowledged…Medieval or earlier.

    Peace.

  66. Twinkie says:
    @Talha

    if you get a good-looking white guy and a good-looking Somali sister together.

    Shocking! Good-looking parents produce good-looking children? What are you, some sort of a racist?

    • LOL: Talha
    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  67. @Red Pill Angel

    Not only can we not even agree on being White, we are ridiculously obsessed with thinness.

    We are “obsessed” with that which has become rare. When thinness was the norm (most of history), it was taken for granted. This doesn’t mean it was any less desirable then compared to now.

    Fifty years of diet books written by Jewish doctors and Jane Fonda’s exercise routines hasn’t worked.

    Low carb, low sugar, high intensity exercise works, your demoralization agitprop notwithstanding to the cuntrary.

    Meanwhile, black people, fat or not, are still having sex and making babies.

    Black men are notorious for having no standards. Black women are notorious for being sexually invisible to White men.

    First, in the 20th century, came the West’s gay obsession with thinness, then the obesity epidemic, and now our descent into self-hatred and madness.

    Slender young women are sexually attractive to straight men, not to gay men. The self-hatred and madness is a predictable result of the feminization of society.

  68. @JohnPlywood

    This Indian broad is scarecely any uglier than the average Englishtart.

    lol lazy troll. Gopal is Mask kid ugly.

  69. Neuday says:
    @dfordoom

    Are you really sure that playing the racial identity politics game is a good idea? Isn’t that exactly what the Woke and the SJWs are hoping that whites will do? Because the Woke/SJWs know that that is a game they’re guaranteed to win.

    Is it a smart move to do exactly what your enemies want you to do?

    What evidence do you have that the SJWs hoping Whites will start to identify as White and act in group solidarity?

    It seems to me that’s the Number 1 thing they’re discouraging in us. Whites are supposed to have absolutely zero in-group preference and actually prefer the out-group. Isn’t that what “Diversity is our strength is all about, out-group preference? It’s illegal/rude/literally Hitler for Whites to think of themselves as White. They’ve spent the past 50 years deracinating Whites; why do you think that is.

    White racial consciousness is what they fear, more than anything, for good reason.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  70. Ray P says:
    @songbird

    The term ‘white race(s)’ was certainly current in nineteen forty-five when George Orwell wrote this in his essay Notes on Nationalism:

    Nationalism, in the extended sense in which I am using the word, includes such movements and tendencies as Communism, political Catholicism, Zionism, Antisemitism, Trotskyism and Pacifism. It does not necessarily mean loyalty to a government or a country, still less to one’s own country, and it is not even strictly necessary that the units in which it deals should actually exist. To name a few obvious examples, Jewry, Islam, Christendom, the Proletariat and the White Race are all of them objects of passionate nationalistic feeling: but their existence can be seriously questioned, and there is no definition of any one of them that would be universally accepted.

    and later on in the same piece he writes:

    (iii) COLOUR FEELING. The old-style contemptuous attitude towards ‘natives’ has been much weakened in England, and various pseudo-scientific theories emphasising the superiority of the white race have been abandoned. Among the intelligentsia, colour feeling only occurs in the transposed form, that is, as a belief in the innate superiority of the coloured races. This is now increasingly common among English intellectuals, probably resulting more often from masochism and sexual frustration than from contact with the Oriental and Negro nationalist movements. Even among those who do not feel strongly on the colour question, snobbery and imitation have a powerful influence. Almost any English intellectual would be scandalised by the claim that the white races are superior to the coloured, whereas the opposite claim would seem to him unexceptionable even if he disagreed with it. Nationalistic attachment to the coloured races is usually mixed up with the belief that their sex lives are superior, and there is a large underground mythology about the sexual prowess of Negroes.

    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @songbird
  71. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Neuday

    White racial consciousness is what they fear, more than anything, for good reason.

    Of all the sad pathetic political delusions of the past century white racial consciousness has to be the saddest.

    You think a white truck driver from Oklahoma and a white corporate lawyer from Manhattan are going to share a sense of solidarity because they’re both white? You think a white angry blue-haired lesbian college student at UCLA and a white farmer’s wife from Ohio are going to feel solidarity because they’re both white? You think a white homosexual working for the New York Times and a white gun-loving survivalist are going to feel solidarity because they’re both white?

    Whites are divided by wildly divergent interests and beliefs and cultures. Those divides are yawning chasms. Those chasms can never be bridged. Class hatreds (which intensify year by year) are enough on their own to make White racial consciousness a joke.

    As long as idiot right-wingers keep pushing the insane idea of White racial consciousness then the Wokeists will keep on winning.

    What the Woke actually fear is that someday the normies will realise that Wokeness is a tool used by the ruling class to advance the interests of the ruling class. And the ruling class is terrified that normies (of all races) will one day figure out that the ruling class has been waging a class war all along. Their great fear is the rise of class consciousness.

    • Replies: @Talha
  72. songbird says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    I kind of like “German AND (all caps) Jewish lives matter!” Perhaps, with an illustration of a blond-haired man in lederhosen, with his three blond children, shaking hands with a rabbi, and with a Bible in his other hand. Throw in a puppy and a few flowers too.

  73. Talha says:
    @dfordoom

    Whites are divided by wildly divergent interests and beliefs and cultures.

    Reminds me a bit of:

    Meat cleaver vs iron cross…

    Peace.

  74. @JohnPlywood

    Schoolmarm requests no dehumanizing language (“gargoyles”) and has gently edited the post accordingly.

    • Replies: @anon
  75. @Talha

    Someone–perhaps this humble blogger–needs to correlate those legal statuses with fertility rates. The correlation will obviously be very strong.

    • Agree: Talha
  76. @nebulafox

    (It’s a deeply sad statement to make, but the inner cities of Detroit and New Orleans have higher rates of functional illiteracy than most of sub-Saharan Africa now. How’s that for a kick in the nads?)

    Where’d you find those stats?  Worth repeating.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  77. songbird says:
    @Ray P

    Orwell had an interesting definition of nationalism. Not that I’d use it in the same way – I think the distinction between nationalism and internationalism is too big to ignore – but it is still thought-provoking, in a way.

    Among the intelligentsia, colour feeling only occurs in the transposed form, that is, as a belief in the innate superiority of the coloured races.

    Interesting how the essay dates from 1945. I wonder what he would have said in 1935. Remarkable how he seems to pick up on status-signaling.

    there is a large underground mythology about the sexual prowess of Negroes.

    Curious declaration, considering the time period, I would say that it almost seems to hint at something homosexual. It is my belief that Roger Casement wasn’t alone when he essentially engaged in gay tourism in Africa.

  78. anon[204] • Disclaimer says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    Schoolmarm requests no dehumanizing language (“gargoyles”) and has gently edited the post accordingly.

    It’s a troll account.

    • Agree: Twinkie
    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
  79. @songbird

    “Orwell had an interesting definition of nationalism.”

    Orwell, like Nietzsche (and also like Freud), is best viewed as an intelligent critic, and not as a positive contributor or a positive philosopher. Freud is interesting, but he’s not a scientist; Nietzsche is quite fascinating, but he offers no “school” to which any serious man would enroll.

    Orwell’s critical insights into the nature and uses of political language are indispensable. But I am not the least bit interested in what his practical views were or are, about nationalism or anything else. Most of the time, they are actually rather silly — an interesting paradox for such a necessary thinker. But then again I also don’t care what Nietzsche thought about Wagner, and Freud misunderstands Greek tragedy so comically that it’s just ridiculous.

    • Agree: songbird
    • Replies: @nebulafox
  80. nebulafox says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Nietzsche’s like Dostoevsky: better used as a psychologist than a philosopher.

  81. nebulafox says:
    @Mr. Rational

    If the Huffington Post is willing to admit it…

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/detroit-illiteracy-nearly-half-education_n_858307

    https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-least-literate-states-of-africa.html

    New Orleans isn’t nearly as bad as Detroit, but 25% functional illiteracy in a developed country is still horrifying.

    That’s a total of 9 countries with illiteracy rates greater than or equal to Detroit’s out of 40+. Granted, I used functional illiteracy for the former, but functional illiteracy is far more indicative than literacy outright when cross comparing the developing world to the developed. It’s almost impossible to live in a 21st Century developed country without being able to read full stop, even if you are a high school dropout: whereas if you have the resources needed to learn to read at all in 3rd World African nations, chances are you probably learned how to read properly. It’s genuine grinding subsistence poverty vs. horrific mismanagement in a nation where poverty means you are obese, not skeletal.

    It gets even more embarrassing when you note that many illiterate African peasants still nonetheless are multilingual.

  82. @anon

    This comment contains dehumanizing language and I request that it be gently edited.

  83. @Julian of Norwich

    The sentence fragments create a sense of emphasis and profundity, too, I guess…

  84. @Twinkie

    Appearancism? Aestheticism? There must be a term for this that incorporates more dimensions of appearance than body weight.

  85. The smart ones aren’t going to utter things like that in public, let alone vociferously proclaim them

    Susan Sontag, Tim Wise and Noel Ignatiev have all said much worse than that.

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Your comment will appear after approval from the schoolmarm. Racial slurs, dehumanizing language, personal identifying information, spamming, the advocation of illegal activity, or excessive profanity will not be approved. Approval of a comment does not imply endorsement of its contents by the authors of this blog or by The Unz Review.


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments have been licensed to The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Audacious Epigone Comments via RSS