The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersAudacious Epigone Blog
Wipe Well
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

A discussion about frenetic toilet paper purchasing broke out in the comments of a post on the coronavirus and perceived impending economic collapse. The anecdotal consensus seems to be that this variation of prepping has a distinctly non-white flavor to it.

Conveniently enough, YouGov today released a poll asking respondents if they “had bought extra toilet paper” to–this took me by surprise–“prevent the spread of coronavirus”. I’d presumed people had been stocking up on things in anticipation of those items becoming unavailable in the near future, not that running out would aid the coronavirus in its conquering.

The mechanism by which a glut of toilet paper retards viral spread eludes me. Fear that a scatological posterior creates a local miasma that renders susceptible those nearby? The resultant rash providing the virus with a direct entry into the bloodstream?

Whatever the purpose, I laud those who put in extra effort and earnings for the collective good. The percentages who do so, by selected demographic characteristics:

The observations appear founded, yet it also looks like excess toilet paper may be a bit of a luxury item in a crisis. That millennials are the most likely to buy extra comes as little surprise–it’s a very millennial thing to do.

 
• Category: Culture/Society, Race/Ethnicity • Tags: Pandemic, Polling 
Hide 137 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. Thomm says:

    Since this is the absolute rock bottom of thread topics, I am going to rescue this disaster with an off-topic post. It is also an opportunity to praise Ron Unz :

    It is a privilege to see a sophisticated Confuse and Conquer Jew like Ron Unz ply his trade. He singlehandedly ties up hundreds if not thousands of WNs at once. His strategy is particularly elegant when one observes the chess pieces that Ron advances in the correct sequence.

    Step 1 : Make a website that WNs use (since they can never build anything on their own). Let any and all anti-Semitic slurs stand on the website to make WNs complacent and even keyboard-courageous.
    Step 2 : Recruit the 2-3 intelligent authors that WNs read (Sailer, Derbyshire, etc.) who happen to bad at making money, so that they write for very little payment.
    Step 3 : After a few years, start pushing for normalization of Hispanics (even if illegal; especially if illegal). Avoid at all costs any mention of the fact that Ron Unz has a sugar daddy arrangement with his Mexican cleaning lady from East Palo Alto (she is about the same age as him, so I am not sure ‘daddy’ as a suffix to ‘sugar’ applies).
    Step 4 : Call a white guy like Thomm a ‘South Asian’ based on zero evidence, and on ignoring overwhelming evidence to the contrary. This distracts 70-IQ WNs from his strategy.
    Step 5 : Deploy people like Fred Reed and Chanda Chisala to generate even more confusion.
    Step 6 : Out of the blue, recognize some commenters as ‘excellent commenters’, of which two are Muslims but zero are WNs.

    It works…and it is a lesson in asymmetrical attrition warfare by a sophisticated Confuse and Conquer Jew. Remember, he got handed an unprestigious assignment from Jewish central command. Harvey Weinstein got to have sex with the prettiest actresses for 30 years, George Soros gets to be a billionaire, etc. But someone has to do the less glamorous work, and Runzie Baby is equal to the task.

    Now, here is the thing. Those who talk about Auschwitz, lampshades, and soap never get moderated on TUR, but those who agree with Ron Unz do. He will even get angry with those who agree with him too vocally, even as any and all anti-Israel content is fully welcome.

    Why?

    It is because he thinks it will expose his game of 4D chess from the perception of a 70-IQ WN. But I guarantee that it cannot, since the typical White Trashionalist is far below the IQ threshold where they can observe the many pieces in motion. I can describe Ron’s plan in full detail (and I fully support it), without any risk of the WNs figuring out that they are the frog and the temperature is already up to about 170 degrees F.

    I am strongly in favor of what Ron Unz is doing. His recent ‘An Open Letter….’ article was a trial balloon through which he tested the speed at which the temperature can be increased under the immerse-in-water frog. I look forward to seeing him go for the kill (i.e. 212 degrees F) by around 2023 or so.

    Thanks,
    -Ira Rabinowitz

  2. A.E., I’m pretty sure I remember you have a wife and family, so you’ve got to know, if those numbers were “USE” rather than “BUY” extra toilet paper, that pink bar would go way up past Ron Unz’s menu bars.

    I mentioned the prepper novel, The Mandibles before to you. Let me tell you, based on the entirely-TMI description of life with a lack of the stuff, any reader of that book would likely buy a couple of pallets of toilet paper, along with a 12-gauge and buckshot to defend it with.

  3. @Thomm

    DEVIOUS! And he would have gotten away with it too, if it hadn’t been for you meddling kids subContinentals!

    .

    .

    (As a parting gift, here’s a Scooby snack. Make sure you inhale.)

    • Replies: @Thomm
  4. Well now, in this Civil Defense building supplies YT video you can see [1:30] on the side of the cardboard storage canister that the US government specifies “10” units of toilet paper for 50 people as per survival sanitation supplies. Period of time? So you don’t have to go outside and expose yourself to the Atomic-Biological Warfare (“WuFlu”) agents.

  5. Thomm says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I am not a subcon. Nothing about my comments matches other subcons in any way (and Ron Unz admitted that he does not actually think I am one). Can you find any comments of mine, particularly less than two years old, to support your claim?

    The funny thing is, this strategy is extremely obvious to normal people, but still completely indetectable to WN wiggers. As Intelligent Dasein correctly said, WNs have been truly punked, but nonetheless don’t know or care.

    Heh heh heh heh

  6. I’d presumed people had been stocking up on things in anticipation of those items becoming unavailable in the near future

    The logic behind stocking up on toilet paper and durable food like rice, canned food etc. is that it that you then only have to do the minimal amount of shopping during the epidemic, minimizing your risk of getting infected in supermarkets (or spreading the virus to others).
    Excessive hoarding (e.g. someone buying a dozen packs of toilet paper, that is far more than one would need for the expected duration of a lockdown lasting 1-2 months) is of course antisocial, all the more so when it’s done with the intention of re-selling at inflated prices; such behaviour needs to be prevented by limiting the amount of items one can purchase, as many supermarkets are already doing. But as far as I’m aware, there isn’t any reliable data about how widespread such excessive hoarding actually is, so all the mockery about people buying toilet paper seems somewhat misplaced to me.

  7. songbird says:
    @Thomm

    Afraid you gave away the game when you mentioned a certain large endangered bird that can be found in India.

    • Replies: @Thomm
  8. Anonymous[122] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thomm

    But WNs, the alt-right, groypers, etc. don’t read blogs and sites with lots of verbal content anymore. They spend all their time on Twitter, 4chan, and other social media outlets.

    Blogs and webzines like this in general are kind of dead.

    • Replies: @Thomm
  9. Thomm says:
    @songbird

    Nope. I just looked for the ugliest large bird I could find, and Marabou Stork/Greater Adjutant (from Africa) came up. It is certainly not endangered.

    And Kelenken Guillermoi is from Argentina, if that is what you are referring to (hint : it is extinct).

    Try again, muchacho.

    You would have had a better claim if you said it is because I mentioned Tulsi Gabbard (on account of her religion), or something.

    Plus, you are ignoring the small matter that Ron Unz openly admitted that he didn’t really think I was a South Asian.

  10. Tusk says:

    I feel pleased to have been vindicated by these results. Though I wonder why the huge spike of people 30-44? Some of this is probably explained by young families, since they may be more neurotic about disruptions, but still interesting to see.

  11. Yahya K. says:
    @German_reader

    Who knew Blacks and Hispanics would be more prudent on this issue than Whites?!

  12. songbird says:
    @German_reader

    My theory is that the normal just-in-time supply chain becomes overtaxed pretty easily because it is based partly on year-to-year calendar demand, and on a wide range of products, instead of high volumes of a few products. IMO, they weren’t really planning on anyone buying double the normal amount, let alone hoarding.

    I understand that certain delivery services are temporarily eliminating a range of products, like skim milk, so they can concentrate on higher demand types of products, like regular milk and 2%.

    I wonder if the situation might even be worse in a city, where real estate typically costs more/is more limited, and there are probably fewer locations per person. Maybe, that is reflected in these racial differences.

    Another way that it probably breaks down is how stores typically stock a range of brands with different prices. I am sure that some people buy up the cheaper stuff, as they are afraid it will be gone, next time.

  13. Twinkie says:
    @Thomm

    Ron Unz admitted that he does not actually think I am one

    I just read a comment of his in which he describes you as an Indian troll.

    Mind you, I don’t care whether you are Indian or not – I just find you a distasteful commenter, whatever your ethnicity. Rather than add value, I think you detract though you are not unique in that regard.

    • Replies: @Thomm
  14. Twinkie says:
    @Yahya K.

    Who knew Blacks and Hispanics would be more prudent on this issue than Whites?!

    Or more prone to panic and selfishness.

    • Replies: @Yahya K.
  15. songbird says:

    I wonder how it would track immigrant vs. non-immigrant.

    I’ve heard that some people from communist countries can be very aggressive when there is a perceived shortage of something. I imagine that it applies to many places in the third world as well.

  16. Twinkie says:
    @songbird

    just-in-time supply chain

    I’ve been saying for years that just-in-time is extreme brittle in the face of an unexpected exogenous shock. I believe in redundancy for that reason. I guess I’m a child of the Cold War.

    Some people had a taste of that last year when an Amazon warehouse/distribution center was hit by a small tornado and Amazon shipping in the region went from 1-2 days to 1-2 weeks or more for weeks.

    • Agree: songbird
  17. Thomm says:
    @Twinkie

    I just read a comment of his in which he describes you as.

    But before that, he said I am not one. He flip-flops a lot, often calling me a ‘Jewish Berserker’ as well.

    Plus, I replied to that comment, correcting him on that and other points, and he slunk away sheepishly. See the response.

    Even more strangely, I am key piece of his strategy, as per point #4 in my comment #1. He usually has to pay people to do what I do for free. That is why I am extremely valuable to Ron Unz. This answers the question about why I never get banned. Quite the opposite, I could negotiate a salary if I chose to.

    I just find you a distasteful commenter, whatever your ethnicity. Rather than add value, I think you detract though you are not unique in that regard.

    I have contributed valuable thought leadership on a variety of fronts. My contributions of music, poetry, and humor are legendary.

    • Replies: @indocon
  18. Stocking up means fewer trips to the store in the future. That would lessen exposure.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  19. indocon says:
    @Thomm

    How much time do you have to waste here man?

    • Replies: @Daniel Williams
  20. @Thomm

    Thomm, unlike the other 2 repliers, I just put that in because it worked with my Scooby-doo joke. I don’t know who anyone really is on here, though I tend to believe then till I figure out otherwise. I could be Scooby-doo himself for all you all know.

    • Replies: @Thomm
  21. @German_reader

    It may be anti-social, I suppose, but I see nothing wrong with the hoarding of supplies nor even planning on selling some for profit during a crisis. Business is business, and no, we don’t need any more laws on this sort of thing. (See Price Gouging – Peak Stupidity is FOR it.)

    All these people grabbing the toilet paper should have done this way before any crisis, as a real prepper would. However, if others don’t “be prepared”, per Boy Scout motto, and they have to pay out the ass for whatever it is, they may learn to be more responsible.

    As Twinkie noted, this Just-in-Time society (both at the industrial AND the consumer level now) makes for a fragile system. It would better for all of us if every family had something resembling a 1950s bomb shelter, and just as importantly, a year’s worth of savings, in whatever appropriate form, to live on.

  22. There was some UK research on “panic buying” (they didn’t call it that, it was more like “are you buying more than usual”), and surprisingly the 18-34 group had the highest propensity, the over-65s the lowest.

  23. @German_reader

    The logic behind stocking up on toilet … is that it that you then only have to do the minimal amount of shopping during the epidemic

    You only need 1 or 2 rolls per week. People must have like a years worth.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  24. @Achmed E. Newman

    but I see nothing wrong with the hoarding of supplies nor even planning on selling some for profit during a crisis

    imo people who do that (especially on products like hand sanitizer which are needed for medical purposes) should be executed or at least imprisoned for a long time.

  25. @songbird

    My theory is that the normal just-in-time supply chain becomes overtaxed pretty easily

    Seems plausible to me. imo it’s quite possible that the media focus on hoarding, people fighting over toilet paper etc. is meant as a distraction from systemic weaknesses which lead to shortages when there’s an uptick in demand. Irrational panic buying of vast amounts might not even be necessary for such an outcome (at least initially, it might happen when people notice that stocks of certain items are running out).

    • Replies: @songbird
  26. Realist says:

    Conveniently enough, YouGov today released a poll asking respondents if they “had bought extra toilet paper” to–this took me by surprise–“prevent the spread of coronavirus”. I’d presumed people had been stocking up on things in anticipation of those items becoming unavailable in the near future, not that running out would aid the coronavirus in its conquering.

    If dumbass people didn’t panic, there wouldn’t be shortages…but that’s too much to ask…that would take some semblance of intelligence.

  27. Realist says:

    The mechanism by which a glut of toilet paper retards viral spread eludes me.

    Me too, perhaps the more you buy at one time, lessens the number of times you have to go out.

  28. @German_reader

    I guess that’s the difference between an authoritarian and someone who believes in freedom. You want to prevent people from buying what they want at the store, is that really what you’re saying?

  29. @German_reader

    In the USA, the Ag lobby makes sure we burn the Ethanol in our IC engines.

    There is no shortage of ethanol to be diverted to hand sanitizer.

  30. @German_reader

    imo people who do that (especially on products like hand sanitizer which are needed for medical purposes) should be executed or at least imprisoned for a long time.

    If you do not let prices rise when there is a shortage, you cannot produce more of what’s needed. The price spikes reflect the real cost of replacement, i.e. the cost of reorganizing production and distribution networks to get the scarce goods to where the demand is. When you have to ramp up production and rearrange your logistics, it doesn’t come free. The cost will be borne by somebody, and forcing sellers to sell at the non-emergency price only shifts the cost from the purchaser to the retailers, suppliers, and producers.

    There may be good reason for socialising certain costs during an emergency, but we cannot act as if there is any free lunch. There isn’t.

  31. @songbird

    My theory is that the normal just-in-time supply chain becomes overtaxed pretty easily

    That isn’t a theory, it’s an analytical fact that follows from the definition. Just in time means “just in time.”

    The problem is there isn’t really an alternative to it. Who is going to store your redundant supply? Retailers don’t want to carry that extra inventory because they have no real incentive to do so. You would have to create an artificial incentive out of sticks and carrots, i.e. writing laws requiring retailers to stock up and levying fines if they don’t, and/or paying them storage fees. Or you would need to create strategic stockpiles at taxpayer expense. Who is going to enforce all this? How are you going to stop the underselling in the black market? The Soviet Union could not prevent its warehouses and military depots from turning into flea markets for the well-connected, and neither can we.

    • Replies: @songbird
  32. songbird says:
    @German_reader

    That’s an interesting idea: That they are covering up for the system.

    I know that just-in-time was basically developed in Japan, but in many ways it does tie into neoliberalism. For one thing, it makes workers more temporary, as production ramps up or down. Another thing is that its adoption was probably influenced by the cost of rents. I’ve heard someone calculate that in the US rent has risen at least 30% due to open borders.

    What’s more, it is probably easy to cover up for the system, since one only needs to show a few looting urbanites to help the narrative.

    • Agree: German_reader
  33. songbird says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Seems to me that part of the problem is that they didn’t have a plan for an epidemic.

    There are probably a number of adjustments that can be made in-store to help the situation without increasing warehousing, such as temporarily limiting the product range to increase volume of high demand products, and changing the location of products, to decrease crowding.

    They are probably sifting through the data now and might be able to self-correct to a certain degree.

  34. @Achmed E. Newman

    The funny thing is that German_reader is, like many of my fellow volk, someone who kowtows to the Zionist party line about the inherent evil of the German race in the sense that he accepts all of the usual lies about our people.

    A real society balances authority and liberty. What degenerate public philosophy has done is perverted people so that they accept license in place of liberty, and tyranny in place of authority.

    In a time of real crisis, hoarding – real hoarding – should not be allowed. However, his nonsense about “execution” is of course the ranting of a hysterical goofball.

    There are a whole lot of people in this country who warrant execution. Hoarders aren’t those folks.

  35. Thomm says:
    @Anonymous

    But WNs, the alt-right, groypers, etc. don’t read blogs and sites with lots of verbal content anymore. They spend all their time on Twitter, 4chan, and other social media outlets.

    True, but RUnzie Baby is a product of the 90s (or at best the early 200os) anyway.

  36. @Yahya K.

    I already had a “family pack” stashed away.  (Cheaper in bulk, and it was on sale.)  Plenty of other stuff too.  So long as the lights and gas stay on, I’m good until 2021 save for meds and related stuff.

  37. Thomm says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I could be Scooby-doo himself for all you all know.

    I peg you more as a Shaggy type.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  38. @Hippopotamusdrome

    If you aren’t wasteful with it or chronically have the runs, you can easily get by with no more than 2 rolls per MONTH.  And that is WITH giving yourself a wipe every time you go after passing gas so you don’t get racing stripes on your underwear.

    When KMart closed up locally I bought some liquid soap refills at their closeout sale.  I probably have a 15-year supply now.  Like buying big packs of TP when they go on sale, it’s called thinking ahead and being a cheapskate.

  39. songbird says:
    @Yahya K.

    I’d really hate to be an Arab, if civilization broke down, and they had to go back to the old ways of not using TP. Though, in fairness, they’d probably have much bigger problems, like not having water or food.

    Meanwhile, Europeans could always use leaves.

    • Replies: @Yahya K.
  40. @Achmed E. Newman

    I guess that’s the difference between an authoritarian and someone who believes in freedom.

    You’re arguing for the “freedom” to enrich yourself at the cost of fellow citizens in time of a national emergency, that is being a parasite. imo that’s just pathetic. There’s a real chance that at the end of this crisis China’s system will look vastly superior to the American one (and to Western ones more generally), and myopic, absurdly selfish people like you will be responsible for it.

    • Agree: iffen
  41. Dumbo says:

    I think the issue is not that people are prudently stocking up, (even though there wouldn’t be shortages if people were no overstocking), but that toilet paper seems to be their main priority instead of, I don’t know, canned food, bottled water, etc.

    There’s a wonderful French invention called the bidet, even though it became more popular in Italy, and should also be more popular in the US, it can reduce the use of toilet paper.

    But yeah, toilet paper is a good invention too, going back to leaves would suck.

  42. Yahya K. says:
    @songbird

    I’d hate to be a white supremacist right now. I’d be part of a race being outnumbered in their own lands, and utterly incapable of lifting a finger to defend themselves! Worse still, it was caused by their own stupidity, fecklessness and naivety.

    How then will I be able to condescend to other races and nationalities, when my own is on a self-inflicted downward spiral to extinction?

    • Replies: @songbird
  43. @German_reader

    I’m not saying it’s a nice thing to do. It should not be prohibited. People like you who want to prohibit everything that’s not a nice thing to do are the reason Totalitarian systems come to power. “There oughta be a law” was a joke, and then a cartoon. It shouldn’t be an ideology.

    This may explain a lot about Germany…just sayin’ …

  44. @Dumbo

    Try Spanish Moss sometime. Turns out, a few days later, that’s it’s not “nature’s toilet paper” after all. (I was on a 1 week camping trip.)

  45. Mark G. says:
    @Dumbo

    If all the federal government bailout schemes lead to hyperinflation then we can just use dollar bills as toilet paper. Toilet paper shortage problem solved.

  46. Screwtape says:
    @Joe Stalin

    Joe, that sounds a lot like watering our crops with water and not brawndo even though brawndo has electrolytes, which plants crave, and water is whats in the toilets. But if you say so, smart guy.

    • LOL: Kratoklastes
  47. songbird says:
    @Yahya K.

    “White supremacist” is a pretty odd construction to me. I think the idea works best for Hollywood villains – not that it is good art, but one can appreciate the artificiality of it, and the source of the political messaging behind it.

    I view such a creature as primarily a fictional being, not knowing anyone who wants PoC slaves, or to rule over the third world, or who believes “white”, which is a pretty neoliberal adjective, to be superior denotation to “European”, or better yet separate nationalities.

    I really wish that PoC would stop using the word “white.” It gets awfully tiresome, when for example you’re being called “white British” by colonists. I’d never dream of moving to Arabia without so much as a “how do you do?” and then calling myself an Arab, and the natives there “brown Arabs.” That’d just be obnoxious, and I have more pride than that, to masquerade as some other people, while stealing their identity.

    And if I had to classify myself on this issue, I would call myself a “sovereigntist”, believing that sovereignty discourages poz and builds a better world, for everyone, except the pozzed.

    I might add this business of you using the term “white supremacist” is pretty hypocritical. Arabs today keep a very large helot class, which they often hold the passports of, and who are often maimed in unsafe conditions, not re-compensated for their missing limbs, and paid peanuts and housed like sardines.

    • Replies: @Yahya K.
  48. @Achmed E. Newman

    NB: my ‘AGREE’ is limited to the notion that there is nothing wrong with hoarding (and ‘price gouging’).

    I definitely disagree that JIT makes for systemic fragility, though.

    Consider the costs of inventory maintenance if everyone carried excess inventory.

    For perishables, the waste would be staggering (it’s already very high).

    For durables, the direct cost of over-producing and over-stocking would be ruinous. Consumer prices would be some multiple of their current levels.

    Profit margins for small business would crater.

    Then, it would be profitable for firms to deviate from ‘overstock’ towards JIT (both because they would save on inventory costs, and they would increase market share by passing on savings until they got back to a normal return on capital).

    That’s why it’s obvious that JIT is an equilibrium: it is socially efficient, and the cost savings mean that all producers, consumers and distributors have some combination of higher consumption and higher savings – depending on their risk perceptions.

    Some people ‘prep’ for Armageddon; some people have 3 boxes of Pessata in the back of a cupboard; some people have one month-old mouldy open container of cream cheese.

    If inventory levels were set so that ‘crisis’-level stock would satisfy demand based on the risk-tolerance of last set (who think that there is no chance that shelves could be empty tomorrow), it would be like having a large insurance premium baked into consumer prices.

    It would ameliorate risk on the once- or twice-a century episodes where genuine shortages happen… the rest of the time it would be a deadweight loss.

    JIT FTW.

    [MORE]

    Hoarding (and price-gouging) on the other hand, is unambiguously pro-social, in that it helps price discovery.

    Furthermore, the hoarders are putting their capital at risk: they are effectively betting that producers and distributors (of e.g., toilet paper), will fail to respond to demand. They have ‘skin in the game‘, and if they’re wrong they are worse off (but with nice clean botties).

    What is anti-social though, is what happened next.

    When all the dunny-paper-hoarder stories were being broadcast a few weeks ago, they trotted out government bullshit-artists and assholes from toilet-paper manufacturers – telling the mouth-breathers not to worry because there was no way there would be shortages.

    As I said to others watching at the time: “That’s bullshit, and the people saying it know it’s bullshit.”

    Here we are a very short time later, and there are shortages – of toilet rolls, flour, bread mix, sugar, pasta, canned tomatoes, analgesics and a bunch of other things.

    The people who told the mouth-breathers that they would ‘out-supply’ the hoarders, should be torn to pieces in the public square.

    I don’t advocate this ‘sonderbehandlung‘ out of sympathy for the mouth-breathers, but simply to give the remaining bullshitting assholes a salutary example, in the hope that it affects their post-Armageddon behaviour.

    If not, whatever: there will be a smaller post-Armageddon stock of bullshitters.

    This ‘crisis’ is something of a mitzvah: it is hard to imagine a more hamfisted handling of the entire thing, which will eat away at faith in government (if only temporarily).

    More people have been forced to interact with ‘welfare’ bureaucracies, and now realise that government is far more fragile, and far less competent, than the private sector.

    In the last week, the main site for the key welfare bureaucracies have been shown to have approximately the same performance and scalability as GoDaddy shared hosting – despite their IT infrastructure having cost $200m.

    .

    As it stands, logistical networks are strained, but not broken. Supermarket chains are focusing on metro/urban centres and short-delivering to regional and rural centres – which makes sense given that metro is where most of the people are.

    Some chains (e.g., IGA, here in Australia) in rural and regional areas are doing things that are obviously illegal (re-packing toilet roll into bags of 4 rolls, priced at $3.98): this might be misplaced ‘community spirit’, mais j’en doute.

    This is just a short-term, coordination problem: it would re-equilibrate relatively quickly under normal circumstances.

    .

    In a world where a decent chunk of the economy is locked down by government fiat, the risk is the “potline problem” – which has nothing to do with weed.

    Aluminium smelters have things called ‘potlines’ – lines of ‘pots’ that progressively refine molten aluminium. The entire content of the potline have to be liquid for the potline to function. It’s an immensely energy-intensive process (~30% of total cost).

    If the potline loses power for long enough (a few hours will do it), the contents of the potline ‘freeze’ (i.e., solidify).

    To get a frozen potline going again takes a very long time – weeks – and a massive amount of energy and expense.

    The pots have to be emptied of their frozen contents pretty much manually, and a lot of the content can’t be re-smelted.

    What I’m getting at, is that you can’t just flick a switch and shut down a system, then expect it to come back online by flicking the switch again.

    The political class can slow the economy to a crawl by uttering magic words… but it is probably going to turn out that the reversing spell takes several months to work.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  49. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I guess that’s the difference between an authoritarian and someone who believes in freedom.

    It’s the difference between someone with a sense of social responsibility and someone with no sense of social responsibility.

    I’d be quite happy to see anyone who engages in profiteering during a crisis lined up against the nearest wall and shot. I suspect that about 98% of the population would agree with me.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  50. Yahya K. says:
    @songbird

    -> I might add this business of you using the term “white supremacist” is pretty hypocritical. Arabs today keep a very large helot class…

    No I’m not hypocritical, because I myself don’t keep serfs. I don’t represent all Arabs anymore than you represent all white Europeans or ‘sovereigns’ or whatever. Mind you when I said ‘white supremacist’ I didn’t mean Americans in general, I was specifically referring to you and your condescending comment to my race. Most other Americans are respectful towards others.

    And on that general point, I sort of regret trashing your race because I have a lot of respect for White Europeans (or ‘sovereigns’ if you like) in general. I am not a European-hater by any means. I trashed your race because you trashed mine. But lets just put it behind us OK.

    • Agree: iffen
    • Replies: @songbird
  51. @German_reader

    lol – why is it that people who (falsely) claim that they know how to improve the world, are the most spiteful and the first to resort to personal invective?

    Why do people think that a thing is true simply because they feel like it ought to be?

    Is it solely because they’re shallow thinkers, or is there some additional contribution due to being picked on in school?

    They’re the sort of midwits who send white feathers to people smart enough to refuse to go to war.

    Now I’m not saying that they are all wizened, useless old women whose snatches are dustier than a Jew’s wallet and whose primary aim is to ensure that nobody is enjoying themselves… but I’m not not saying it, either.

    If there is a single type of person who should be sent to the camps, it is those who claim that they know who should be sent to the camps. (META-KEK)

  52. songbird says:
    @Yahya K.

    I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to be disrespectful. IMO, it doesn’t matter who you are, it’s objectively worse to run out of TP in the city or desert. Or, so I assume, I haven’t had the actual experience.

    BTW, I was being a bit glib, I don’t think we’re actually coming to a cataclysm here. Or the end of toilet paper. Perhaps eventually – these things happen, according to my model of the world, but hopefully not for a while.

    Actually, one of the reasons I don’t approve of the helot labor market is that I’d like Arabia to stay Arab, even as a abstract concept – I’m rather sun and heat sensitive and so have no particular desire to visit there. And if I were visiting anyway, I’m pretty old-fashioned, I’d probably go to Egypt rather than Dubai, or some other place like that. Plus, I think it’s better for Arabs to do their own work (true for any people, IMO).

    • Replies: @Yahya K.
  53. @Thomm

    I would phrase it like this. The job of all media, including this, is to fuel identity politics. And suppress economic politics. Because, as long as you’re whining about blacks and minorities and Patels and such, you’re not whining about how the rich took all our money and won’t give it back.

    Simple divisa et impera. You can say anything, be on any side. As long as you don’t start calculating “wha happen to da money?”

    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
  54. Yahya K. says:
    @songbird

    Thank you for your apology.

    -> Actually, one of the reasons I don’t approve of the helot labor market is that I’d like Arabia to stay Arab, even as a abstract concept.

    Yes. I can see that many Sovreigntists (never heard of that term before btw. Is it similar to ethno-nationalist?) hold the view that each nation should have one distinct ethnicity without any immigration. And I respect and share your view 100%. Mono-ethnic nations are more cohesive and less conflict-ridden. It also makes the world more Diverse to have every race in separate countries where they can develop their own unique cultures we can all visit and see.

    And on that point, I would like to say that I’m opposed to Europe becoming Arabized. In fact, I’m pretty distraught about the European demographic situation because I like to visit Europe and understand that Europe is very much Europe because of its people. I’m also aware that Arab IQ is below the European one by at least 10-IQ points and that will have economic implications. Never mind the cultural/religious differences.

    -> Plus, I think it’s better for Arabs to do their own work (true for any people, IMO).

    Yeah. This dependency on foreign labor has left us in quite a state of laziness and sloth. Not sure how we will get out of it.

    • Replies: @songbird
  55. @Kratoklastes

    That’s why it’s obvious that JIT is an equilibrium:

    The Japanese actually paid attention to Deming and learned that JIT is no such thing.

    JIT is a way to catch production problems when they’re small.  If the parts coming from supplier A spend a month in a warehouse before they go to your line, you could have a whole month of production that’s made wrong and require re-work or scrapping before you find out about it.  Your line could be down for days while the problem is corrected.  But if those parts arrive in the morning and are at the line by noon, you discover such problems almost immediately.  You do not waste huge amounts of work fixing a problem that could have been caught days or weeks earlier.  Your downtime might be a few hours, possibly less if the next shipment is already on the way and it had the error fixed.

    JIT is a way to prevent errors from snowballing.  It’s not primarily a way of cutting inventory costs, it’s a way to make sure the job is done right.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  56. @Achmed E. Newman

    This may explain a lot about Germany…just sayin’ …

    Having had many conversations with other Anglosphere libertarians about Germany, I’ll go ahead and assume you know as much about Germany as German_reader knows about what should and should not merit executions:

    Not much.

    But, you know, just as a reminder, the Austrian system of economics, for one, was primarily invented by – you guessed it – ethnic Germans. Jews only added on to it, and/or modified it, later.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  57. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    I don’t have a big sampling, John. One example I won’t get into details about was very good at the basic job but started worrying about the “letter of the law” when it was time to use common sense. He caused a lot of damage. Luckily nobody got hurt badly, just scratches and monetary losses. Yet, the paperwork, it was in order.

    What do you know about Germans and Germany that I don’t know? Maybe German_reader can just chime in and tell us why it’s cool to be a Totalitarian.

    I notice that Austrian economics didn’t really take off in Austria, did it? The ideas took off in America, of course.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  58. @indocon

    You haven’t heard? India is on total lockdown.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  59. songbird says:
    @Yahya K.

    I’m not sure I can speak for any movement. That is, I’m not sure I’m qualified to say “ethnonationalists” believe this, while “sovereigntists” believe that. But at a minimum, there is a lot of intersection, and a lot of people probably fit into both camps. But I do prefer the term “sovereigntism” or “sovereignism” because it covers more bases, and probably is more effective as rhetoric.

    As an individual, I think ethno-states should be the basis for government. I think they work best, as a generality. I think they are what people thrive in, that most people need that cultural foundation to build a worthwhile life on, and I think that they even create benefits for people who live in other countries. For instance, I like seeing the occasional foreign film, or reading a foreign book.

    On the other hand, some people seem to genuinely like multiculturalism and genuinely hate ethnonationalism. Maybe, there is a place for these people somewhere. I don’t know where – I’m not proposing to give them a piece of Europe. But, maybe, there is a place where they would be welcomed, with some understandings and agreements in place beforehand. I guess what I’m talking about is boundaries and consent. A departure from anyone feeling like they are being invaded, replaced, or being ruled by alien people, or stolen from.

    Like, I suppose Singapore is really a Chinese state with some camouflage, but maybe there could be a few places like Singapore, or some other models, other than just homogeneity. Not necessarily all blenders. Maybe some of them would have hard delineations, like X people’s neighborhood, and Y people’s neighborhood. Or we’re willing to go 10% in this city, for these economic benefits. Or we will lease you 100 square miles of this uninhabited desert land for 100 years, if you build this infrastructure for us, etc. Or you can have 10 square miles for your neighborhood and your own schools, if you employ this many people.

    And some of these places might be places that people move to temporarily to experience other peoples, but then move back to experience the comfort of their own people more. I think this sort of model would take some of the pressure out of the push towards globalism.

    I don’t know if Neom is meant to be something like that, or if it will work, but I’m actually quite intrigued by the idea.

    • Replies: @Yahya K.
  60. @Achmed E. Newman

    Maybe German_reader can just chime in and tell us why it’s cool to be a Totalitarian.

    Kind of a false dichotomy to claim that there’s a choice only between totalitarianism and the psychopathic free market fundamentalism masquerading as “freedom” you’re advocating. Could turn out to be somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy though. imo American right-wingers are making a huge mistake with all this “If we shut down the economy for 2 months, the cure will be worse than the disease! And it’s probably only a hoax anyway to prevent Trump’s reelection!” nonsense. 2020s were set to be a turbulent decade anyway, who knows what will happen, if hundreds of thousands of Americans die of Covid-19 for the sake of mammon, might even empower radical leftists who dream of reenacting Bolshevism (all the more so since Trump hasn’t delivered on any of his “populist” promises from the 2016 campaign as far as I can tell). But hey, not my business, at least it’s interesting to watch from the outside.

    • Agree: Tusk
    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @Mark G.
    , @songbird
  61. Yahya K. says:
    @songbird

    -> On the other hand, some people seem to genuinely like multiculturalism and genuinely hate ethnonationalism. Maybe, there is a place for these people somewhere. I don’t know where – I’m not proposing to give them a piece of Europe.

    Oh no, not Europe. Europe is the ancient territory for indigenous white Europeans. That’s the last place you’d want to carve a multiracial country in. Keep Europe for Europeans.

    I guess the natural multicultural zone is the one staring us in the face: the United States Of America. Everyone here is descended from settlers/immigrants and the country is already very diverse. You have already have lots of different ethnic groups like Anglo-Saxons, Italians, Greeks, Irish, Indians, Chinese, Latino, Africans etc. And I think America is diverse not just across ethnicity, but within them too. Its very different being a white truck driver in rural Oklahoma than it is a white professor at a Boston university. Now, that doesn’t mean I’m advocating more immigration – there probably needs to be a halt to calm things down. But speaking as a foreigner who resided here for the last three years as a student: America is still a pretty amazing place. You’ve made the multiracial thing work well. And you were quite lucky in getting Latinos and Asians. They are not as tricky as Arabs or Africans to assimilate. And they seem to fit in quite well.

    -> I don’t know if Neom is meant to be something like that, or if it will work, but I’m actually quite intrigued by the idea.

    I applaud you for your curiosity of other countries. Yeah the Neom project took a huge hit when MBS had that journalist assassinated. People didn’t want to associate themselves with him or the project anymore.

    My impression is that Neom is supposed to be a tourist zone – kind of like Dubai – but with the added benefit of the Red Sea (which is a lot better than the Arabian sea). It will also be less city-centric and more beach-centric. MBS of course wants to add flying-taxi projects and the what have you, but that’s just typical Royal Family hubris.

    My Dad runs our family business which primarily deals in Hajj and Umrah pilgrimages. But he is being encouraged by the government to open up shop in Neom. There are many wonderful sight-seeing archaeological sites there for people to visit.

    But no Neom is not meant as a place to attract foreigners to become citizens. Saudi Arabia is a pretty parochial place – you can’t get citizenship unless you have a Saudi father. Even if you’re mother was Saudi and you were born in Saudi Arabia – you wouldn’t be given citizenship. We are very strict on this. There are plenty of foreign temporary residents here though.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @songbird
  62. @Daniel Williams

    One wonders how the designated shitting streets are locked down.

  63. iffen says:
    @Yahya K.

    when MBS had that journalist assassinated.

    Is it safe for you to write stuff like this? What happens when you go back?

    • Replies: @Yahya K.
  64. Tusk says:
    @German_reader

    Here’s some free market “freedom” for the Australians:

    How bulk supplies of Australia’s face masks, hand sanitisers and other vital medical items were shipped to CHINA as the coronavirus pandemic took hold

    Bulk supplies of vital medical items were shipped from Sydney to China at the request of a Beijing-backed property giant as the coronavirus pandemic took hold in Australia.

    Greenland Group, which manages property developments across the globe with the support of the Chinese government, told employees at its Sydney office to stop their normal work in January.

    Instead, they were tasked with sourcing face masks, hand sanitisers, thermometers and other medical items, storing them at their office and shipping them to China.

    A whistleblower told The Sydney Morning Herald the exercise was a worldwide effort and continued until the end of February.

    […]

    Meanwhile, the Federal Government is scrambling to produce enough medical supplies as confirmed local coronavirus cases surge to more than 2,400 – and doubling about every three days.

    Glad to see that as a global pandemic is ongoing that Australian citizens (most likely racially Chinese) were buying the supply out of a 25m country to supply a 1.3b (55x as large) country. Who needs a Trojan horse when foreign agents can just legally move here and engage in activities that undermine the natives.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  65. @Mr. Rational

    Are Americans taught to construct everything as an XOR problem? Are the words ‘general to specific‘ ever uttered in US business schools?

    JIT has the positive characteristic you mention – making production processes adaptable without sacrificing a significant existing inventory of inputs in the event a change is identified.

    However that’s not its sole positive characteristic; it isn’t even the primary positive characteristic, and it wasn’t the primary focus of development of the method.

    Its primary design characteristic is increased general efficiency.

    Henry Ford and his ilk made really important contributions that are not properly recogised: Ford was cognisant of the cost burden imposed by large inventories, but his approach wasn’t ‘canonical’ JIT (nor was GMs).

    JIT really became a focus in the post-WWII period – mainly in Japan, where a bunch of things constrained large-inventory processes, and organisers had a free hand thanks to the freedom-mitzvah of having had their existing industrial plant and equipment bombed to smithereens.

    Have a look at numbers from the late 20th century: JIT improves almost every aspect of production, from labour-hours per unit of output, inventory (WIP), inventory (inputs), inventory (outputs), shipments, factory floor space… and of course reduced unit cost (and in a competitive market for output, that means lower unit price).

    And on the relatively rare occasion that someone notices that some part of the process can be tweaked – yeah, that too. Once in a blue moon, but it happens. That’s why Ford had suggestion boxes and fortnightly line-worker meetings.

    Nobody would dispute that flexibility in the actual process – the thing you mentioned – is one of the aspects of JIT that makes it an efficient equilibrium.

    And that’s one contributing factor as to why JIT is, when applicable[1], the industrial-organisation workflow strategy from which no participant has an incentive to deviate, and all participants have an incentive to move towards.

    So it is both a Nash equilibrium (any firm that deviates from it will reduce their own payoff) and a Pareto equilibrium (any agent that moves towards it does not affect others’ payoffs).

    The Pareto-optimality claim is contentious iff the market for the output is not purely competitive, because existing JITters could lose market share… but JIT would still be their optimal approach.

    [1] There will be MBA-level (i.e., “HelloWorld“-economics) retards for whom JIT is a hammer and everything is a nail, but those ought to be rare these days – it’s two decades since JIT was a genuine buzzword, so it’s almost certainly been replaced by ‘lean’ or ‘agile’ or ‘scalable’ or ‘flexible’ or some other bullshit.

  66. dfordoom says: • Website
    @German_reader

    Kind of a false dichotomy to claim that there’s a choice only between totalitarianism and the psychopathic free market fundamentalism masquerading as “freedom” you’re advocating.

    It’s something libertarians always do. To them if you’re not a libertarian you’re Literally Stalin.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  67. Yahya K. says:
    @iffen

    I doubt they will be checking the Unz review. Lol.

    I’m semi-anonymous too. 😉

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Talha
    , @iffen
  68. @Tusk

    Same thing happened in Germany, the Chinese were buying up huge quantities of protective equipment etc. in January and February…our incompetent minister of health was even warned by industry representatives (at least as early as 5 February) that there could be shortages in the German health care system as a result, but did nothing…now there aren’t enough masks, gloves etc. even for medical personnel and the Chinese are sending some of the stuff they bought back to Europe and presenting themselves as saviors, lol.

    • Replies: @Tusk
  69. Tusk says:
    @German_reader

    Can you imagine the response if America was buying out supplies from smaller countries and leaving them unequipped to deal with the situation? It’s pretty disgusting behaviour.

  70. Mark G. says:
    @German_reader

    If the business shutdowns continue long enough it will result in an economic collapse. When there was a Soviet economic collapse in the nineties it resulted in increased mortality rates due to increased alcohol abuse, suicides and lack of money to pay for medical care for the population in general. The same thing could happen here after an economic collapse.

    On the other hand, not shutting down anything could lead to the disease spiraling out of control. Overwhelmed hospitals would result in people, even some younger people, not surviving when they would have otherwise. Under the first scenario a fifty year old dies from alcohol abuse but under this second scenario a seventy year old dies from lack of medical attention after picking up coronavirus. How you feel about which alternative we pick probably depends on whether you are the fifty year old or the seventy year old.

    You could probably avoid both these results by temporary restrictions that don’t permanently cripple the economy. The problem here is how long is temporary? Flattening the curve enough so hospitals aren’t overwhelmed seems achievable and we can look at other countries that have successfully done this. I think we can do more as individuals too rather than looking at government to solve this. Personally, I have set everything up to telework so I can stay home more and don’t have to be around my coworkers. I’ve made a more extreme effort to eat properly, take supplements like vitamin C and zinc, and get enough sleep. Even if things like restaurants were still open I would avoid going to them until after the disease has peaked. I do this both to protect myself and also to protect others by not picking up and passing on the disease.

  71. @German_reader

    It’s the fault of the stores for not upping the price right away and thereby letting the hoarders walk in and just clean them out. The gougers who flip needed products are doing a service by keeping needed products on the market and out of the stockpiles of the hoarders.

    The stores should have increased the prices right at the first sign of a run on certain products. The prices needed to be put at the level that would maintain he normal depletion rate.

    Let’s say the stores lowered the price of TP to $0.01 a roll as a humanitarian gesture in a crises. What happens? First hoarder walks in and cleans them out for several dollars. Whose fault? The store’s. What if a gouger gets there first and flips them in the parking lot? He performes a service and corrects the error of the store.

    Failing to up prices during emergencies and enabling hoarders should be a financial crime.

  72. @Dumbo

    I think the issue is not that people are prudently stocking up

    Not very prudent to stock up at the last minute. Prudent is stocking up last year and having it already on hand.

  73. songbird says:
    @Yahya K.

    Even if you’re mother was Saudi and you were born in Saudi Arabia – you wouldn’t be given citizenship

    Good rule. I understand that in Europe, there are a lot of old ladies that marry African men, who are only interested in green cards.

    I guess the natural multicultural zone is the one staring us in the face: the United States

    I’d actually be quite willing to trade a large chunk of the US for tangible benefits. An end to non-European immigration, universal suffrage, affirmative action, all wealth transfer to other people, and troublemakers exiled. And non-Europeans start moving out of Europe as fast as they came in, but, unfortunately, everyone wants it all – the entire West.

    You’ve made the multiracial thing work well.

    I’d have to completely disagree with this. The US is not doing well – it’s probably easier to perceive, if you have been here a long time, and can observe the negative changes over time, like the sudden profusion in trannies, or the explosion in homo, miscegenation, and general anti-white propaganda, and rhetoric, or housing prices in good neighborhoods.

    Part of it is mathematical: the US federal budget is in regular deficit because of diversity. It would be balanced or in surplus, if it were just whites, and that’s without even reducing the military (which I would reduce.) The interest to service this debt is growing, and the political system seems to be totally incapable of dealing with it. Congress is more and more resembling the parliament of South Africa. Look into the racial caucuses, if you think it’s a functional political system.

    Do you know that they are counting illegals on the census? There was supposed to be a question asking them their citizenship, but the corrupt courts shot it down. What does it mean? Well, it is a strategy to redistrict out whites in Middle America. Sanctuary cities and states increase their pop, this causes them to be assigned representative slots in the House, which are taken from whiter states. They are also assigned more tax revenue.

    I’m afraid there will be no end to immigration. The US is on a suicide course. It is not changeable through democracy, and I can foresee no other correction. But there is a lot of ruin in a country, as the saying goes.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Disagree: iffen
    • Replies: @dfordoom
  74. songbird says:
    @German_reader

    I think the call to end the shutdown is an obvious strategic mistake.

    Elections are just censuses. Even if Trump manages to win because Biden has a “me-too” moment, the US does not seem to be on the path to any sort of political correction. This shut-down is a sort of deus ex machina that has a chance to act as a small disruptor.

    One example: the college bubble in the US. There are classes, where people might pay like $100 just to attend for a day – I mean just one single class. Maybe, if you are staring googly-eyed at the hot girl in-front of you, and working through a hangover, you don’t notice. But some people will notice, if the class becomes a youtube video, and there’s no beer pong or hot girls.

    There’s all sorts of people having their routines broken and being given time for introspection. There’s the stories about different countries stealing masks by intercepting them, or else blocking their transfer. I don’t think this shutdown is good for globalism. It will leave an indelible stamp on the minds of many people.

    A while back, I heard that China leaked some memo, floating the idea of allowing mass migration of people from Eastern Europe, Latin America, and Africa. There was a strong negative reaction. But, now, for the moment, they are banning foreigners with green cards from re-entry, and a lot of pozzed expats are conjuring up visions of the Boxer Rebellion. And that’s in the country where it originated!

    There might be positive effects against globalism allover the world. Of course, it may go the other way, but in the case of the US, it is already going that way.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  75. Talha says:
    @Yahya K.

    I would hope so. For all the unflattering stuff I’ve written about the Saudi ruler ship, I can pretty much kiss any chance I have at getting a visa for Hajj or Umrah goodbye if they trace this stuff to me.

    Wa salaam.

    • LOL: Yahya K.
    • Replies: @RSDB
  76. Talha says:
    @Yahya K.

    By the way, do you anything about the status of the waqf system in Saudi? Are there independent awqaaf or were they nationalized by the government (or I guess ruling family in this case) like in other Arab countries?

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @Yahya K.
  77. @songbird

    I don’t think this shutdown is good for globalism.

    It shouldn’t, once nation states have brought the situation within their territory under control (which is the purpose of a shutdown), it would be only logical to have very stringent immigration restrictions (including mandatory 14-day quarantine etc.) for the duration of the pandemic, to prevent Covid-19 being brought in from abroad again. But the globalist ideology is so strong I actually doubt this will happen, at least in Europe. In the midst of an escalating epidemic, the EU has now decided on a maritime mission off the Libyan coast…not only for enforcing the arms embargo, but also for picking up “refugees” on sea, who will then be transferred to Greece and distributed among EU countries willing to accept them (Germany prominent among them of course). It probably will never end, until everything comes crashing down in a total cataclysm.

  78. SafeNow says:

    I posted my toilet-paper theory elsewhere but will repeat it. During toilet training, enthusiastic parental approbation rewarded the toddler’s correct toilet use. This pleasant reinforcement persists, unconsciously. Psychology professors have mused: Who among us can honestly say that he has never looked back at the toilet bowl, viewed a successful movement, and said to himself, good job. Having toilet paper available is a necessary part of this mechanism. I suspect no one will earn an Unz gold box for comments to this subject.

    • LOL: iffen
  79. dfordoom says: • Website
    @songbird

    and that’s without even reducing the military (which I would reduce.)

    The US military is essential. How else are you going to force the LGBT agenda on the rest of the planet? There are still countries that don’t have transexual bathroom rights, gay bath houses and Gay Pride Marches. Those countries must be bombed and invaded until they conform.

    • Replies: @songbird
  80. People are deeply stupid.

  81. @dfordoom

    I don’t disagree that it’s “socially irresponsible” to go grab the last 10 packages last minute, with others hanging around the aisle. As for lining people up for that, in America, capitalist roader hoarders shoot back, and that’s nothing but a good thing.

    Your 98% (made-up number) are the ones who deserve the ditch, but, see we don’t do that either. It’s amazing how a manufactured crisis can bring out the Totalitarians. It doesn’t take much in Germany, as it’s apparently a personality trait. British culture, hence old-time American culture, says you may not like the actions of certain people, but there ought NOT to be a law.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @dfordoom
  82. @dfordoom

    I didn’t say Stalin. Neither of you get to be Stalin. Don’t flatter yourselves.

  83. iffen says:
    @Yahya K.

    You need to understand that they (and our government, and many others) have supercomputers looking for key words, they don’t need to do these things themselves. You have already revealed enough personal details (if true) that with the money available, I could probably find you myself.

    • Replies: @Yahya K.
  84. Yahya K. says:
    @iffen

    They may take our lives, but they’ll never take away our freedom!

    • Agree: iffen
    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    , @iffen
  85. @Yahya K.

    It’s amazing how much Hollywood culture has gotten around.

    • Replies: @Yahya K.
    , @iffen
    , @iffen
  86. iffen says:
    @Yahya K.

    Freedom’s just another word for nothin’ left to lose
    Roger Miller

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  87. Yahya K. says:
    @Mr. Rational

    Yeah, Absolutely. American cultural soft power is real and globally pervasive.

    We have Saudi girls now posting rap music videos on Youtube, for god’s sake!

    #SoftPower #CreepingAmericanization #Decadence

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    , @songbird
    , @Talha
  88. iffen says:
    @Mr. Rational

    It’s amazing how much Hollywood culture has gotten around.

    “A Simple Desultory Philippic” by Paul Simon….


    I knew a man, his brain was so small
    He couldn’t think of nothing at all
    Not the same as you and me
    He doesn’t dig poetry
    He’s so unhip that when you say Dylan
    He thinks you’re talking about Dylan Thomas
    Whoever he was
    The man ain’t got no culture
    But it’s alright, ma, everybody must get stoned

    [MORE]

    I been Norman Mailered, Maxwell Taylored
    I been John O’Hara’d, McNamara’d
    I been Rolling Stoned and Beatled ’til I’m blind
    I been Ayn Randed, nearly branded
    Communist, ’cause I’m left-handed
    That’s the hand I use, well, never mind

    I been Phil Spectored, resurrected
    I been Lou Adlered, Barry Sadlered
    Well, I paid all the dues I want to pay
    And I learned the truth from Lenny Bruce
    And all my wealth won’t buy me health
    So I smoke a pint of tea a day

    I knew a man, his brain was so small
    He couldn’t think of nothing at all
    Not the same as you and me
    He doesn’t dig poetry
    He’s so unhip that when you say Dylan
    He thinks you’re talking about Dylan Thomas
    Whoever he was
    The man ain’t got no culture
    But it’s alright, ma, everybody must get stoned

    I been Mick Jaggered and silver daggered
    Andy Warhol, won’t you please come home?
    I been mother, father, aunt and uncled
    Been Roy Haleed and Art Garfunkeled
    I just discovered somebody’s tapped my phone

    Folk rock
    I’ve lost my harmonica, Albert

  89. iffen says:
    @Mr. Rational

    1960’s

    We wuz kangs of the universe for eternity.

    We wuz forever young.

    • Replies: @Yahya K.
  90. Yahya K. says:
    @iffen

    Mr. Iffen,

    Judging by your music taste, I figure you must’ve been a hippie back in your day?

    I personally prefer listening to Merle Haggard.

    We don’t smoke marijuana in Saudi Arabia. We don’t take no trips on LCD.

    • Replies: @iffen
  91. @Yahya K.

    We have Saudi girls now posting rap music videos on Youtube, for god’s sake!

    A case of Derbyshire’s “absimilation” if there ever was one.

    Ghetto culture, those who create it and (((those))) who promote it, are all despicable.

  92. Yahya K. says:
    @Talha

    Oh yeah it’s mostly the national government nowadays. They have a ministry for it “Saudi Ministry of Islamic Affairs, Dawah and Guidance”. I guess nowadays government have taxes to fund waqfs, so private donations aren’t needed. Waqfiyahs are still written on the private level, but not as much as before. I once asked my dad why he didn’t set one up, he said “well we already pay a tax to the government specifically for it, and they are the ones who maintain the important mosques and the Haraams, and they have better resources and infrastructure”. And that makes sense. I guess you can still fund scholarships to universities and what not, but most people don’t do that because the government already does it. Its a bit like the US, the government tax and welfare system has replaced the need for private donations.

    https://www.moia.gov.sa/Pages/default.aspx#

    • Thanks: Talha
  93. iffen says:
    @Yahya K.

    I figure you must’ve been a hippie back in your day?

    Hippies had dirty feet. Mine were spotless; then and now.

  94. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Achmed E. Newman

    As for lining people up for that, in America, capitalist roader hoarders shoot back, and that’s nothing but a good thing.

    Of course I wasn’t advocating shooting hoarders. Just profiteers. I’m totally in favour of shooting capitalist roader profiteers.

    OK, I wouldn’t really advocate shooting them, but nice long prison terms for them would be cool.

    Profiteers are exactly the kinds of people who make crises turn really nasty.

  95. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Achmed E. Newman

    British culture, hence old-time American culture, says you may not like the actions of certain people, but there ought NOT to be a law.

    No laws at all?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  96. songbird says:
    @Yahya K.

    Biggest TV show in China is called the Rap of China. The government tried to ban it originally, but then were kind of forced to bring it back.

    I would have kept the ban.

    • Replies: @Yahya K.
    , @Yahya K.
  97. dfordoom says: • Website
    @iffen

    Freedom’s just another word for nothin’ left to lose
    Roger Miller

    Wasn’t that Kris Kristofferson?

  98. Talha says:
    @Yahya K.

    I have seen videos of the nonsense concerts that they have started up in Saudi…what the hell is the leadership smoking. Those concerts are by artists that even much of the other parts of the Muslim world wouldn’t allow in. I get that it’s difficult to stop this kind of stuff getting in peoples’ heads because of cell phones and internet and what not (the below by the way is impressive):

    But do you have to invite them physically? There seems no excuse for that.

    Wa salaam.

  99. Yahya K. says:
    @songbird

    Agreed.

    I think the whole world is facing the problem of keeping away American bad influence. The main issue is that America’s defects are the ones being spread around the globe, not your strengths. We are not absorbing your work ethic or economic vitality, just your drugs, gangster culture, rap music etc.

    Even Lee Kuan Yew’s Singapore is struggling with this:

    We must inoculate ourselves from this epidemic. When the children are young, make them understand that there are basic traditional values they should hold fast to–what is good, what is bad, what is to be admired, what is to be despised, who is a hero, who is a villain. Bilingualism must be thorough, the values inculcated when people are young and impressionable, for the inoculation to be successful.

    Here is LKY’s right-hand man, Goh Keng Swee (Wealth of East Asian Nations) as well:

    There is much that is admirable in Western culture, such as regard for individual liberty, the great achievements of modern science, the high standards of centres of learning, the great accomplishments in literature, music and the visual and performing arts. But there are also the less admirable aspects of Western mass culture that was propagated by the channels of communications. Anthropologists studying the process of cultural contact between societies of different traditions discover that less admirable elements are more easily transmitted than admirable ones.

    In Singapore, evidence exists to support this view. Where the acquired behaviour is clearly harmful, such as hard drug addiction and pornography, the Government took stern repressive action. It may not be easy to prove that other forms of acquired conduct are harmful and government action would result in public outcry. For instance, we cannot proscribe certain types of music even though we believe it could lead to unruly behaviour. Nor can we dictate what kinds of clothes people may or may not wear. Some people believe that the spreading habit of using Western names should be discouraged as it represents a step towards the loss of cultural identity. Others dispute this. Again, some people believe that Singaporeans are losing the traditional habits of honesty, thrift and hard work and that the young indiscriminately imitate Western customs. This again is an area of dispute.

    • Thanks: songbird
  100. Yahya K. says:
    @songbird

    Agreed.

    I think the whole world is facing the problem of keeping away American bad influence. The main issue is that America’s defects are the ones being spread around the globe, not your strengths. We are not absorbing your work ethic or economic vitality, just your drugs, gangster culture, rap music etc.

    Even Lee Kuan Yew’s Singapore is struggling with this:

    We must inoculate ourselves from this epidemic. When the children are young, make them understand that there are basic traditional values they should hold fast to–what is good, what is bad, what is to be admired, what is to be despised, who is a hero, who is a villain. Bilingualism must be thorough, the values inculcated when people are young and impressionable, for the inoculation to be successful.

    Here is LKY’s right-hand man, Goh Keng Swee (Wealth of East Asian Nations) as well:

    There is much that is admirable in Western culture, such as regard for individual liberty, the great achievements of modern science, the high standards of centres of learning, the great accomplishments in literature, music and the visual and performing arts. But there are also the less admirable aspects of Western mass culture that was propagated by the channels of communications. Anthropologists studying the process of cultural contact between societies of different traditions discover that less admirable elements are more easily transmitted than admirable ones.

    In Singapore, evidence exists to support this view. Where the acquired behaviour is clearly harmful, such as hard drug addiction and pornography, the Government took stern repressive action. It may not be easy to prove that other forms of acquired conduct are harmful and government action would result in public outcry. For instance, we cannot proscribe certain types of music even though we believe it could lead to unruly behaviour. Nor can we dictate what kinds of clothes people may or may not wear. Some people believe that the spreading habit of using Western names should be discouraged as it represents a step towards the loss of cultural identity. Others dispute this. Again, some people believe that Singaporeans are losing the traditional habits of honesty, thrift and hard work and that the young indiscriminately imitate Western customs. This again is an area of dispute.

  101. Yahya K. says:
    @Talha

    Yeah.

    I think the most absurd one was inviting Nicki Minaj to Saudi Arabia to do a concert.

    She cancelled because we didn’t support gay rights sufficiently.

    WHY WAS SHE EVEN INVITED IN THE FIRST PLACE!

    I think some of our leaders are trying to show that we are ‘open’ and ‘modern’ by doing this. They are wrong.

    Asalaam.

    • Replies: @Talha
  102. @dfordoom

    Oh, give me a break, Doomer. No, not no laws at all. The most important thing is that the actual signed and ratified Law of the Land, the US Constitution, limited what the Federal Gov’t could do (or tried to, until people screwed the pooch). State and local governments can do more, but State all have their own Constitutions.

    Most laws passed over the last 1/2 century by our now-Feral Government were unconstitutional. A law by a local government proscribing imprisonment or execution for buying too much stuff at the store would likely be unconstitutional, but I haven’t read them all.

    My point is the CULTURAL ATTITUDE, DforDoom. Maybe you don’t remember that cartoon – I can’t really remember much about it either, other than that the name of it was humorous, because back then Americans understood that “there oughta be a law!” was funny…stupid, but funny.

  103. @Talha

    You know, Tahla, even as recently as 25 years ago, 1995, if the Moslem world, or whoever, complained about American culture, I just figured “hey, they don’t know good music, don’t know how comfortable blue jeans and t-shirts are, and are just plain weirdos about this.”

    Nowadays, as I wrote in the Peak Stupidity post “Outside it’s America”, I can completely understand the American “system” (the government and the media-promoted culture) being the Great Satan. Most of the people though, far from it, but you’ve gotta know that already, or you wouldn’t live here.

    • Replies: @Talha
  104. Talha says:
    @Yahya K.

    WHY WAS SHE EVEN INVITED IN THE FIRST PLACE!

    I know??!!

    At the least they are keeping it out of the interior of the Miqat:
    Though it is debatable whether Jeddah qualifies as being inside or just on the border:
    They should keep all of this stupidity far away in Riyadh, fully in Najdi territory.

    I think some of our leaders are trying to show that we are ‘open’ and ‘modern’ by doing this. They are wrong.

    Agree – everyone that I know of among Muslims was like; “What the hell, Saudi??!!”

    The only ones that were happy are the soooper-liberal SJW pozzed “but, but muh freedomz” Muslims and hyper-murtads, but they won’t be happy until this happens:

    By the way – if you don’t mind me asking; what tribe do you hail from? Not asking sub-tribe or anything, just wondering about the big branch? Feel free not to answer also.

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @Yahya K.
  105. Talha says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    even as recently as 25 years ago, 1995, if the Moslem world, or whoever, complained about American culture

    I remember the shows that were shown from the US in Pakistan in the late 70’s and early 80’s – and yeah, they were nowhere close to the stuff that is being broadcast out these days.

    Believe it or not, my first exposure to music in the English language was NOT from the US, it was actually ABBA who were a pretty huge hit in Pakistan at the time. People weren’t dancing in the streets or in clubs, but plenty were playing cassettes.

    Most of the people though, far from it, but you’ve gotta know that already, or you wouldn’t live here.

    Yup – agree. Though if the pozz-brigades have their way, they won’t be satisfied until that is not the case:

    Peace.

  106. Yahya K. says:
    @Talha

    -> By the way – if you don’t mind me asking; what tribe do you hail from? Not asking sub-tribe or anything, just wondering about the big branch? Feel free not to answer also.

    I’ll explain my unique background in full: My Father is Saudi Arabian, and Mother is Egyptian, so I have citizenship in both countries. I personally was born in Cairo, raised in Cairo, and speak the Egyptian dialect. My mother and siblings are the same. My father was born in Makkah, raised in Makkah, and speaks the Saudi dialect. He spent half the year in Saudi and the other half in Egypt as I was growing up there since he has offices in both countries. Both my parents now live in Jeddah after my siblings and I went off to university. So we are a pretty cosmopolitan family. We don’t belong to a tribe in Saudi. I think most urban Saudi’s nowadays lost ties with their tribes too. The country is changing in that regard.

    Anyway, I still haven’t decided which country I will be returning to after I finish university here. The primary location of our family business is in Saudi, but really I consider myself more of an Egyptian to be honest. So it’ll probably be Egypt inshallah.

    Asalaam.

    • Replies: @Talha
  107. @Talha

    Now, granted, I could see where a live show may have been a problem in Pakistan …

    I already called the blonde.

    • Thanks: SafeNow
    • Replies: @Talha
  108. Talha says:
    @Yahya K.

    We don’t belong to a tribe in Saudi. I think most urban Saudi’s nowadays lost ties with their tribes too.

    Whoa!!! Seriously?! Do you guys at least have a family tree that traces your ancestors back to, say, the time of the Prophet (pbuh) or earlier?

    Honestly, this is a bit shocking to me. I thought Saudis (well, I guess it does depend on which region) were still big on tracing their lineage back to one of the main tribes of Arabia. Even the descendants of the Qurayshi tribes don’t care?!

    Egypt is one of the countries my wife and I have considered if things get decidedly hostile for Muslims around here…specifically Alexandria; a city we both seemed to like when we visited.

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @Yahya K.
  109. Yahya K. says:
    @Talha

    -> Honestly, this is a bit shocking to me. I thought Saudis (well, I guess it does depend on which region) were still big on tracing their lineage back to one of the main tribes of Arabia. Even the descendants of the Qurayshi tribes don’t care?!

    No, no, Talha. You haven’t read deeply into Saudi history. There are plenty of non-tribal Saudis, and they are mostly found in cosmopolitan cities like Jeddah and Makkah. The reason: Saudi Arabia has a hidden immigration history from outside the peninsula. Most Saudis never mention it (including my family), but a substantial portion of Saudis are descended from immigrants rather than indigenous tribesman.

    My own family is like that. Our last name is Arabized but has Indian influences. Its been rumored in our family that our ancestors came from India 400-500 years ago. I also know that my great-great grandmother is full Turkish. I recently took a genetic test and found out I was:

    50.8% Arabian/North African
    24% Western Asian (Iran & Turkey)
    11.4% South Asian (Gujarat region)
    7.8% Other

    Now obviously we are still majority-indigenous Arabian. But as you can see, there is substantial immigrant ancestry. And in fact, my Paternal Haplogroup (that means paternal ancestry line) is R1A, which is an Indo-Iranain (Aryan) Haplogroup only found in place like Iran, India, Eastern Europe, Russia etc. So my paternal ancestry traces back to either an Iranian or Indian, as indicated by our last name.

    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/3Qd7PfGGqtNbn8oXOfFwNsNTktcdU75zDbj3bPHx3UjtMXEH2lnahPmHnl-FcB-zQhQq6V0qyeAVOepRzrKC17Fbp9Yq

    Here is a good article I found on this subject for you:

    https://www.encyclopedia.com/humanities/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/tribes-and-tribalism-arabian-peninsula

    The word qabila (tribe) refers not only to a kinship group but also to a status category: qabili families claim descent from one of two eponymous Arab ancestors, Adnan or Qahtan, and feel themselves to be distinct from and superior to the nontribal khadiri, freeborn people who cannot claim such descent. The khadiri included most of the tradesmen, artisans, merchants, and scholars of pre-oil Arabia.

    • Replies: @Talha
  110. songbird says:
    @dfordoom

    I swear I remember a scene in the movie Hots Shots!, it must have been the second one, where there was a dogfight between two fighter jets. And the Iraqi one had a button in the cockpit that said something like “Say no to gays in the military!”

    But I’m afraid I can’t find the scene, and I only remember it very foggily, having seen it many, many years ago. Perhaps it was in another movie.

  111. Talha says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Yeah, just the cassettes no leggy blondes.

    Though, in fairness, Bob Marley (quite different) also got quite a bit of play. Everyone just used to call him BM.

    Peace.

  112. @Talha

    Now, granted, I could see where a live show may have been a problem in Pakistan …

    I already called the blonde.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  113. @Achmed E. Newman

    Sorry for the double post. Can you nix it, A.E.?

    (I’d seen the “too much commenting” window, so I thought it hadn’t taken.)

    • Replies: @res
  114. Talha says:
    @Yahya K.

    Most Saudis never mention it (including my family), but a substantial portion of Saudis are descended from immigrants rather than indigenous tribesman.

    OK – that totally makes sense.

    Our last name is Arabized but has Indian influences. Its been rumored in our family that our ancestors came from India 400-500 years ago.

    Reminds me of a good Syrian friend of mine who told me about a family friend of his from Saudi who got into some trouble with the authorities for being critical of them. Last name was Dehlawi (which obviously hints at the origins from Dehli, India).

    My father did a stint in Saudi for a a couple of years working on some development project way back in the late 70’s.

    And in fact, my Paternal Haplogroup (that means paternal ancestry line) is R1A

    OK – this makes sense. I know that even the tribal Arabs don’t necessarily have a problem marrying out and plenty do, but since they would trace their ancestral line on the patrilineal side, they would retain their tribal identity even with a lot of admixture (they aren’t really about “muh racial purity”). But since your patrilineal side is from elsewhere, it makes sense that you don’t really feel associated to any tribe.

    I also know that my great-great grandmother is full Turkish.

    That makes sense due to Ottoman influence in the region, I believe Khashoggi was also of Turkish heritage.

    The khadiri included most of the tradesmen, artisans, merchants, and scholars of pre-oil Arabia.

    Makes total sense – jazakAllah for the reference; very interesting. Would you say then that the elites in the society are still from the qabili folks and that a lot of the functional upkeep is done by khadiri folks? Or is that distinction starting to break down?

    Thanks so much for these details! Much appreciated.

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @Yahya K.
  115. Yahya K. says:
    @Talha

    -> Makes total sense – jazakAllah for the reference; very interesting. Would you say then that the elites in the society are still from the qabili folks and that a lot of the functional upkeep is done by khadiri folks? Or is that distinction starting to break down?

    Honestly, I wouldn’t take me as an expert because I was raised in Egypt so aren’t as steeped into Saudi Arabia as you’d expect. But i’ll try to answer as much as possible.

    I think that Qabili tribesman are totally useless and a drain on Saudi. They just live on lavish government handouts, don’t participate in the modern economy and don’t produce anything. Why? To put it bluntly: They are low-IQ, because they are inbred. They get a lot of political preferences because the Royal family needs their patronage and support, as per Saudi history.

    Non-tribal Khadiri Saudis, on the other hand, are out-bred due to immigrant history and not being stigmatized to marry in-tribe. They are also descended from higher IQ populations like South Asians, Turks, Iranians. That’s why people like Khashoggi ran the media and people like my dad run the businesses.

    I personally don’t know if there is strong distinction or animosity between the two or anything because I didn’t grow up in Saudi. My dad never mentioned anything on that front either.

    -> Reminds me of a good Syrian friend of mine who told me about a family friend of his from Saudi who got into some trouble with the authorities for being critical of them.

    What did he do? How did he get caught? What happened to him?

    I am interested in case this happens to me as well. Lol.

    ——————–

    Have a good day, Talha.

    Asalaam.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Talha
  116. res says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    (I’d seen the “too much commenting” window, so I thought it hadn’t taken.)

    I’ve made double (and triple ;-/) posts like that before. My approach now is if anything anomalous happens after I publish a comment I go to a different window and open the thread to see if my comment is there already before publishing again.

    P.S. Also remember that if the edit window is still alive you can delete your own comment by deleting all the text and saving it. Then you need to click OK on the delete confirmation dialog box.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  117. Talha says:
    @Yahya K.

    I think that Qabili tribesman are totally useless and a drain on Saudi. They just live on lavish government handouts, don’t participate in the modern economy and don’t produce anything.

    Yeah, but man – were those guys solid, solid fighters in Late Antiquity and early Medieval times. Usually you don’t see many photos of tribal Arabs from before the oil-age without their flowing robes on, but once in a while you find one where they are just wearing the izaar. This one is from the early 20th century (a young man and an elder of one of the Khaleeji Arab tribes) – the young man has a physique like an MMA fighter and this is all natural, without ever stepping a day in the gym or being on some crazy protein supplement plan – just normal, everyday chores:

    If the average guy looked like that, you can understand why they were naturally able to take on armies that were much larger and better equipped.

    Though even that very impressive and laudable characteristic of toughness/hardiness is lost if lavish government stipends end up making them soft and lazy.

    They get a lot of political preferences because the Royal family needs their patronage and support, as per Saudi history….That’s why people like Khashoggi ran the media and people like my dad run the businesses.

    This basically lines up with my assumptions based on my (sparse) readings of the subject and from other conversations that I’ve had with others.

    I personally don’t know if there is strong distinction or animosity between the two or anything because I didn’t grow up in Saudi. My dad never mentioned anything on that front either.

    That’s good – hope it stays that way.

    Have a good day, Talha.

    You too, bro.

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @AaronB
  118. @res

    Thank you, Res, but I am familiar with both of these procedures. I usually do open up that 2nd tab (i have many dozens of tabs open!) and check there, if I’m wondering what just happened. I also know the way to delete the post via deleting text and saving*. This time was plain weird, as usually that “3 comments per hour per post” window means it. I’ve lost stuff before by mashing Ron’s associated button, so I will normally just use the browser’s “BACK” button to go back, see the stuff, and hit “PUBLISH” later on. That’s what I thought I had done.

    Yes, I could have still gone and checked with a different tab. I still don’t know what I did, but by the time I checked the site again, 5 minutes was long gone for both ABBA videos. I do appreciate the help anyway, Res, and this writing by both of us may help someone else. All in all, the usability of this site is top-notch.

    .

    * BTW, when putting in videos, and I think still pics too, I noted long ago that once you use the [Preview] feature, when you [Publish] the video or pic will not show up. I’ve gotten around that bug by not previewing, only publishing, but if there’s anything (I see, that is) wrong, within the 5 minutes, I just fix it, do a cut (ctrl-x) of the whole thing, and have it deleted the way you explained to me. Then I have to start the comment or reply again and paste in my stuff and publish – not a big deal – sometimes this goes on for 3 or 4 cycles, but you know how much I like embedding videos, haha.

  119. RSDB says:
    @Talha

    Out of the commenters I read regularly, I think you, Twinkie, and myself would be possible for an intelligent person to identify with a little minor PI work. Personally I only know who I am, but you are both (going by what you write) somewhat prominent in your local communities and we all have somewhat unusual family ethnic backgrounds.

    Fortunately I doubt the tireless valor of the Saudi intelligence service has produced a file on you yet, but one never knows.

    • Replies: @Talha
  120. @obwandiyag

    ‘“wha happen to da money?”” Da bitches ‘n’ hoes took it all you crackhead.

  121. anon[362] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    I remember the shows that were shown from the US in Pakistan in the late 70’s and early 80’s – and yeah, they were nowhere close to the stuff that is being broadcast out these days.

    I’ve been told that VHS cassettes of “Dallas” were a hot ticket in Pakistan back then. Must have been really disappointing to be a Pakistani man sent to a US college only to find out that Not All American Girls Are Like That.

  122. Talha says:
    @RSDB

    Fortunately I doubt the tireless valor of the Saudi intelligence service has produced a file on you yet, but one never knows.

    No, I’m not worth a “file” – I’m not that important. I’m not afraid of that or the possibility of getting the bone-saw treatment in a Saudi embassy; again, not worth the trouble.

    What I am worried about is being found out and put on a simple blacklist (the equivalent of a no-fly list) for the Hajj and Umrah – that is as easy as a shrug, doesn’t require having a dossier and I don’t know if there is an appeals process to get off the list.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @RSDB
    , @iffen
  123. Talha says:
    @Yahya K.

    What did he do? How did he get caught? What happened to him?

    I don’t know the details, but I recall the name; Fouad Dehlawi.

    I did some searching and (assuming this is the same guy) he looks to be a professor of Electrical & Computer Engineering at KAU:
    https://kau.academia.edu/FouadDehlawi

    It looks like his case even caught the eye of the US government:
    “In the UK, Al-Mas’ari continued to disseminate tracts critical of the Government, particularly of King Fahd, Interior Minister Prince Naif, and Riyadh Governor Prince Salman. His publicized views have expressed opposition to peace with Israel and to Saudi support for the peace process. After Al-Mas’ari fled, security forces arrested 15 to 20 of his relatives and supporters. In late 1994, the Government released several of these detainees, including Dr. Fouad Dehlawi; Mas’ari’s brother, Lu’ay al-Mas’ari; and Mas’ari’s brothers-in law, Rashad and Nabil al-Mudarris. Others remain in custody. The Government has not publicly acknowledged any of these detentions.”
    https://www.refworld.org/docid/3ae6aa482c.html

    There may be more info in Arabic on the subject, though don’t know how much given “the Government has not publicly acknowledged any of these detentions” (aka “we dindu nuffin’!”).

    Wa salaam.

  124. RSDB says:
    @Talha

    Well, it would require some attention being paid you.

    Travel bans are a strange thing; my family members (being just a little obscure here) have been publicly critical of the SL government, but we’re not barred (not saying we might not be in future). Some people are. It depends, I guess, on who gets ticked off and when. The same family members were also publicly critical of the LTTE back when they had their own border control but were still allowed in on necessary business. One of said family members is, however, barred from India because of once having lived in Pakistan.

    What I am worried about is being found out and put on a simple blacklist (the equivalent of a no-fly list) for the Hajj and Umrah – that is as easy as a shrug, doesn’t require having a dossier and I don’t know if there is an appeals process to get off the list.

    Is this a common thing? If the Saudis get enough people barred this way you would think there would be some international furor.

    • Replies: @Talha
  125. Talha says:
    @RSDB

    Well, it would require some attention being paid you.

    Sure, but nothing that requires a dossier.

    It depends, I guess, on who gets ticked off and when.

    Exactly – another reason not to piss off a well-connected Saudi national.

    Is this a common thing?

    No, it’s not too common (since often times, people already self-censor), but it is certainly a concern. A lot of more popular Muslim speakers pull their punches when speaking about Saudi for these reasons. A lot of the stuff I have said on these forums, I would not think of saying on a public Muslim platform.

    But sometimes they wield it as a political tool as well:
    “The past two pilgrimages have only seen a handful of Qataris attend because of the travel restrictions and obstacles imposed on them by the Saudi government.”
    https://english.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2019/8/9/for-third-year-saudi-led-embargo-blocks-qataris-from-hajj

    Peace.

  126. songbird says:
    @Talha

    Desert Arabs must have some pretty interesting metabolic genes. I imagine that it takes an awful lot of self-discipline for any of them to be thin today.

    • Replies: @Talha
  127. Talha says:
    @songbird

    Desert Arabs must have some pretty interesting metabolic genes.

    Desert Arabs (like the Arabian horse breed) were products of one of the most difficult and unforgiving environments on the planet; only the tough survived:

    If you’ve ever been in the heat in that area, you realize how it is amazing any human survived there before modern air conditioning:
    “Mecca, in Saudi Arabia, is the warmest inhabited place on earth. Its average annual temperature is 87.3 degrees Fahrenheit. In summer, temperatures can reach 122 degrees Fahrenheit.”
    https://www.businessinsider.com/hottest-city-in-the-world-mecca-photos-2019-8

    “We Fremen have a saying: ‘God created Arrakis to train the faithful.’ One cannot go against the word of God.”

    I imagine that it takes an awful lot of self-discipline for any of them to be thin today.

    Obesity and related diseases have hit them like a Mack Truck. Truly a shame.

    Peace.

    • Agree: songbird
  128. AaronB says:
    @Talha

    Btw, those impressive physique give the lie to the idea that you have to be on any kind of special high protein diet.

    These Bedouins were poor – meat was probably quite scarce. Food was probably mostly dates, milk, etc.

    • Replies: @Talha
  129. Talha says:
    @AaronB

    I agree with you on the meat intake. That was usually reflective of the wealth of the tribe in animals. If you didn’t have many to spare, you simply didn’t eat them (or did so rarely). But that natural milk straight from the goat, sheep, camel, etc has plenty of protein (I’ve seen studies where camel milk has the equivalent or 60% more protein than cow milk).

    Even that old man has that wiry muscle with very little fat on him.

    Also, on camel milk – though I’ve never had it:
    https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/camel-milk-benefits

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  130. iffen says:
    @Talha

    What I am worried about is being found out and put on a simple blacklist (the equivalent of a no-fly list) for the Hajj and Umrah

    Why would anyone want to belong to a club where you can be denied full membership at the whim of other members?

    • Replies: @Talha
  131. Talha says:
    @iffen

    This isn’t being denied membership; this is being denied the ability to perform a ritual, which could be done for illegitimate reasons (like the political one I outlined) or legitimate ones (like suspending Umrah applications to prevent the spread of a disease).

    Peace.

  132. AaronB says:
    @Talha

    Good point. They did drink a lot of milk, or so I’ve read.

    Camel milk and dates should be the next fad diet in the US 🙂 The Bedu Diet – not even joking, bet someone enterprising (not me) could totally sell that.

    I don’t know if you’ve read that Wilfred Thesiger book, but it’s a great read, a classic of adventure/travel literature.

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Your comment will appear after approval from the schoolmarm. Racial slurs, dehumanizing language, personal identifying information, spamming, the advocation of illegal activity, or excessive profanity will not be approved. Approval of a comment does not imply endorsement of its contents by the authors of this blog or by The Unz Review.


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments become the property of The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Audacious Epigone Comments via RSS