The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
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The first bar for each group (uniform color) shows the percentages of respondents who view coronavirus as a “very serious” problem for the country, the second bar (varying colors) the percentages who view it as a “very serious” problem locally. Respondents can assess it as a very serious problem both nationally and locally or nowhere at all:

This is why instant media, social and otherwise, is so damaging to our collective mental health. Things seem okay on our little patch of ground, but it’s pandemonium over the horizon. It runs the gamut of subjects–finances, crime, optimism about the future, support for elected leaders, trust in the police (post forthcoming), etc etc. People are optimistic about themselves and their local communities, but pessimistic about the country as a whole. Perhaps we could make local communities like small countries and scrap the unwieldy superstate nobody is happy with.

To the understandable objection that while most places have battened down the hatches for a storm that never came, a couple of spots in the country did get pounded and therefore the problem is “very serious” nationwide even if it’s not so in most locales, see the preceding paragraph.

 
• Category: Culture/Society, Ideology, Science • Tags: Coronavirus, Polling 
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  1. What if Donald Trump—the Orange Man himself—began publicly praising black lives matter and wrote an executive order mandating masks? Would the media begin raging against the rioting and hysteria?

    • Replies: @Neuday
  2. This is one of your classics that reveals at a glance something heretofore hiding in plain sight: COVID is yet another NIMBY phenomenon.

    One wonders though what it would look like if the underlying data could have a column pair for “New York City” or “Jews”.

    The only within-data trends I see are the usual ones: the left (and woman and blacks) view COVID as a bigger problem both here and elsewhere, while the right (and men and whites) view it less so both places.

    Would a chart of the difference between a group’s local vs. national assessment (“hypocrisy index”?) show any trends? My eye doesn’t see anything obvious. Lowest at middle aged (22 points), highest at oldsters (44 points). That’s kind of hard to explain. Maybe the oldsters are most anxious about it, but haven’t actually suffered from it (or if they have, they are already dead and therefore unsurveyed), while 30-44 year olds have a more balanced and dispassionate view of things.

    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
  3. Dr. Doom says:

    I don’t know anyone who has died from this. Most people don’t.

    130,000 in a country of 300 Millions. Seems rather small for a plague.

    This seems more political than health. About CONTROL.

    Much like smoking, these measure are “good for you”.

    Nothing more tyrannical than a Nanny State that wants to “HELP YOU”.

    Be more skeptical of corporate media. They do not tell the Truth, they tell you a “story”.

    • Agree: Cloudbuster
    • Replies: @Realist
    , @Getaclue
  4. Jay Fink says:

    I live in a hotspot which had the highest Covid rate in the Western U.S. So I would be in the minority who would say very serious problem locally but not nationally.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  5. Things seem okay on our little patch of ground, but it’s pandemonium over the horizon.

    This was always the case prior to instant media; it simply became easier for TPTB to carry out their programmes of Operant Conditioning with instant and social media, but your poll shows there is a lot of work yet to be done because everyone is not uniformly panicked.

  6. Twinkie says:
    @Jay Fink

    I’m pretty sure the NYC metro area was “very bad locally, not so bad nationally” during the peak of the earlier, first wave.

    Texas and Florida ICU usage rates are pretty high right now. I’m not concerned as much for raw transmission/infection numbers. I’m much more concerned about ICU usage rates, because deaths shoot up when ICUs are overwhelmed.

    But on a more positive note, the survival rates of those on ventilators have risen from 10-20% in the earlier hot spots to 50-60% today, as treatment protocol efficacy has improved. Doctors know more now than 8 weeks ago.

    Now for the trillion dollar question – what’s going to happen in 6-24 months? Some models here:
    https://science.sciencemag.org/content/368/6493/860

    • Replies: @A123
    , @Anonymousse
  7. iffen says:

    Perhaps we could make local communities like small countries and scrap the unwieldy superstate nobody is happy with.

    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/dream-lovers-dont-dream-alone/#new_comments

    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
  8. @iffen

    No, you can never do this because your small communities are incompetent and cannot run themselves as we have been shown time and time again.

    The entire midwest from Alberta Province down to North Texas is nothing but shrinking, dying, rotting old towns. The rural northeast is no different. These communities are withering to their pre-Great Deal state, and in many regions formerly endangered species like bison, beaver, and pronghorn antelope are now taking over the disbanded areas. They are full of nothing but problems and state and federal oversight is the only thing preventing them from going full Silent Hill.

    Everything you hold dear you owe to Franklin Roosevelt and Dwight Eisenhower. None of it could ever have happened without those two. Nothing you have ever done in your entire life would have been possible without their accomplishments. Acknowledge this by adding a 15% tip to your tax payment this July 15th.

    • LOL: iffen
    • Troll: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Anonymousse
    , @Jane Plain
  9. Yahya K. says:

    This is why instant media, social and otherwise, is so damaging to our collective mental health. Things seem okay on our little patch of ground, but it’s pandemonium over the horizon. It runs the gamut of subjects–finances, crime, optimism about the future, support for elected leaders, trust in the police (post forthcoming), etc etc. People are optimistic about themselves and their local communities, but pessimistic about the country as a whole. Perhaps we could make local communities like small countries and scrap the unwieldy superstate nobody is happy with.

    Or you can abolish the corporate media, and replace it with a state-run media that will spout happy propaganda all the time.

    Works for even bigger superstates.

  10. A123 says:
    @Twinkie

    Texas and Florida ICU usage rates are pretty high right now.

    Texas and Florida have high ICU usage rates every year. An empty bed generates no revenue and has fixed costs for equipment and personnel.

    There are a few genuine hotspots, but the alarmists are trying to remove context from the “% ICU Beds in Use” statistic. Artificially maximizing fear yields obedience to government authority.

    PEACE 😇

    • Agree: botazefa
    • Replies: @Twinkie
  11. unit472 says:

    This is a very infectious virus so what was New York and New Jersey’s problem two months ago has moved to the Sunbelt. The truth is we only have palliative treatment for the disease and a vaccine is not in sight ( despite all the optimistic pronouncements) so I assume it won’t be stopped no matter what we do.

    Yes, you can be a healthy 25 year old with little risk of health consequences but if you lose your job because of the virus that’s going to ruin your life as surely as the virus ruins the life of a retired geezer in Florida. Maybe more since you have a half century to go and the virus maybe with you all the way.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
  12. Cold hard proof we’re in a big league psyop

    Enemy is pushing propaganda that is way out of line with the actual day to day experience. People are absorbing the message that Things Are Very Bad even though they see their lives being pretty much fine.

    People are also absorbing that The World Is Different Now. Primed to accept big changes of various kinds.

    High risk/high reward hours here

    Either we define a new normal or it will get defined for us (by people who hate us)

  13. This is why instant media, social and otherwise, is so damaging to our collective mental health. Things seem okay on our little patch of ground, but it’s pandemonium over the horizon.

    Very true, A.E. I would like to add here, though the iCrap makes it much worse, this “grass is always browner” thing has been a problem since 24/7 news on TV, starting with CNN in the mid-1980s.

    Before that, do you all remember when there was just 1/2 hour of national and then 1/2 hour of local news on TV? That was IT, besides the local newspaper. They could only fit so much in that 1/2 hour, so the national news, especially, could not scare the livin’ Bejesus out of people all day long like they do now.

    • Agree: dfordoom
  14. @unit472

    but if you lose your job because of the virus

    More people have lost their jobs because of the response to the virus than because of the virus itself.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @unit472
  15. indocon says:

    Instance after instance in polling shows Hispanics are closer to whites that blacks, while for Asians it’s the other way.

    • Replies: @Ian Smith
  16. Neuday says:
    @Daniel Williams

    Our side needs to stop thinking in terms of logic and reason. This is no longer about convincing our political opponents with sound arguments, if it ever was. This is now simply about raw, naked power; who has it and how they’re using it against those out of power.

    To wit, Trump could announce that a non-profit he funded had cured breast cancer with a medicine best taken with chocolate and Left would fight and deny and discredit with tooth and nail, all of them, without exception.

    • Replies: @anon
  17. Getaclue says:
    @Dr. Doom

    James Corbett has thoroughly researched who is behind all of his — and predicted what is happening before it happened based on what his research showed him these last 10 years… – – the Rockefellers and their Foundation and Gates and his Foundation and all their NWO “Experts”/Lackeys they have paid off and “seeded” at every level possible — this roll out of Medical Martial Law has been planned and “gamed” by them for years in order to bring about “depopulation” and authoritarian Government where you will have zero rights (like the Chinese under the ChiComs — the “Model” David Rockefeller basically created himself in “modern” China) — he documents from their own mouths and documents exactly what they are doing and who they are– all should review the entire site: https://www.corbettreport.com/gates/

  18. How does one die from Covid19? Or “test positive”? I don’t watch/read/listen to the globalized “current events”…….the real deadly pandemic are the brainwashed privileged masses

  19. anon[804] • Disclaimer says:
    @Neuday

    Our side needs to stop thinking in terms of logic and reason.

    That was true years ago. For sure it was true when President Lightbringer was lowering the oceans.

    This is no longer about convincing our political opponents with sound arguments, if it ever was.

    I dunno if it ever was, but it hasn’t been for at least 15 years. Trump Derangement is real, and those people cannot be reasoned with, because they don’t reason themselves. It’s all emotion all the time. Reason with Trigglypuff, I’ll take the vid.

    That’s why the chan memes in 2016 were so effective; effective shitposting tends to work at an emotional level that goes around reason. That’s why Woke Tech has been working so diligently to shut down alternate comm channels from /pol on out.

    Can’t reason with people who are over-medicated due to their daddy issues.

  20. unit472 says:
    @Cloudbuster

    A distinction without a difference! Nobody says you can’t get on an airline flight and go to Las Vegas but no one wants to.

    • Replies: @Not my Economy
    , @Twinkie
  21. d dan says:

    “The Virus Is Always Meaner in Somebody Else’s Lake”

    Actually this phenomenon is very common occurrence in many situations, virus-related or not:

    1. Surveys have repeatedly shown that Americans have very low opinions about the Congress as a *WHOLE* (something like 15% or so approval rate), but repeatedly, over 90% of Congress persons are re-elected years after years (i.e. “my congress person is better than your congress person”).

    2. Surveys have also shown that most people think that they are above average in IQ, intelligence, smartness etc. But obviously this is mathematically impossible – if > 50% are above “average”, then what does it mean by “average”?

    “65% of Americans believe they are above average in intelligence”

    source: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0200103

    3. Similarly, most people think they are quite well-off (living standard, health, happiness, look, moral standard, etc), but nation wide, others are not as well-off.

    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  22. @unit472

    No way. It’s very different. Government ordered business to shut down and then resume only in a limited capacity (If at all).

    This is not “the virus”, it was people, who have names and addresses.

    • Agree: Cloudbuster
  23. SafeNow says:

    Do I evaluate local seriousness widely, or, personalize it, subjectively, to myself? If the former, I look around, and conclude it’s not so serious here. But if the latter, for me as a 65+, I face a severe, serious situation locally. The risk of a case being deadly is high, because of my age. I must logically avoid going to doctors and hospitals to screen and treat my oldster conditions. And finally, I am supposed to be enjoying my golden years by recreating and socializing locally, but I am instead in isolation. It seems to me that as the pollster went to the trouble of breaking the findings down into groups, the person answering should reply with respect to his own characteristics as a member of the group.

    • Replies: @usNthem
  24. Thomm says:

    There have been innovations in the ‘Karen’ matrix :

  25. This is why instant media, social and otherwise, is so damaging to our collective mental health. Things seem okay on our little patch of ground, but it’s pandemonium over the horizon. It runs the gamut of subjects–finances, crime, optimism about the future, support for elected leaders, trust in the police (post forthcoming), etc etc. People are optimistic about themselves and their local communities, but pessimistic about the country as a whole. Perhaps we could make local communities like small countries and scrap the unwieldy superstate nobody is happy with.

    This “grass is greener on my side” phenomenon even extends to self-reported personal happiness:

    Eighty-six percent of those who are asked about their happiness in the World Values Survey say they are “rather happy” or “very happy,” and on average the respondents in the 150-country World Happiness Report 2016 judged their lives to be on the top half of the ladder from worst to best.18 Thoreau was a victim of the Optimism Gap (the “I’m OK, They’re Not” illusion), which for happiness is more like a canyon. People in every country underestimate the proportion of their compatriots who say they are happy, by an average of 42 percentage points.19

  26. usNthem says:
    @SafeNow

    A life in isolation – what kind of life is that? I guess you’re still alive. Better give up driving as well – might die in an accident, no matter how careful you are, even if you’re wearing a mask…

    • Replies: @SafeNow
  27. 216 says:

    Getting Conservative Inc to say “anti-white racism” is pulling teeth

    But for once they did it

  28. Ian Smith says:
    @indocon

    I think it’s more that Asians socialize mainly with upwardly mobile Whites and Jews in the cities and imbibe their outlook, while Hispanics spend more time around blue collar Whites.*

    *I just went ahead and capitalized all groups for fairness and simplicity.

    • Replies: @Black woman
  29. @d dan

    But obviously this is mathematically impossible – if > 50% are above “average”, then what does it mean by “average”?

    Firstly – it’s not mathematically impossible for more than 50% of a distribution to be above (or below) the average (aka the arithmetic mean, as opposed to a geometric or harmonic mean).

    To convince yourself of this: assume you measure the height of 3 people. 1 of them stands 6’3″ and two are 5’9″.

    The average height is 5’11”, and 2/3rds of the sample is of below-average height.

    Obviously 3 people is too small a sample to permit population inference: the fact that the sample is highly skewed doesn’t imply that the population will follow the same pattern. So in this toy example it’s incorrect to say “based on this data we can say that ⅔ of all people are taller than average“: only a psych or journalism major would do that.

    The point is, it’s not mathematically impossible; it just requires that the distribution of the data is skewed.

    Data can be skewed in a genuine, underlying sense, or as a result of sample bias.

    If the data follows a symmetric distribution, then the mean and median (and mode) are the same value, and 50% of observations are above the mean. In such a case, increasing the sample size will generally result in a decreasing gap between the average and the median.

    However a lot of things are not distributed symmetrically around the mean.

    Household incomes are a good example: the ‘best-fit’ distribution is always skewed, with roughly 66% of the distribution below the average. That’s not an artefact of sample sizes or sampling method – it’s a genuine statistical property of the process that generates the data.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @d dan
  30. 216 says:

    We are Never Allowed Anything

    • Replies: @216
  31. 216 says:
    @216

    Wew Lad

    Same guy

    Anti-democratic ideologues should be banned from mainstream web services.

    https://fcw.com/blogs/lectern/2020/07/main-all-men-created-equal.aspx

  32. @JohnPlywood

    You’re drunk again Kevin Williamson

  33. @Twinkie

    Taking their OH NO THIS DEADLY PANDEMIC KILLING US ALL silliness seriously gives them power. They are using this power in increasingly malign ways every day.

  34. Twinkie says:
    @A123

    Texas and Florida have high ICU usage rates every year. An empty bed generates no revenue and has fixed costs for equipment and personnel.

    Don’t talk nonsense to someone in the business. I’m on the board of a large, multi-state healthcare system, which also has facilities in Texas. Electives have been cancelled at most of our facilities there and several of our larger hospitals have highly elevated ICU occupancy rates.

    Also, ICU are very costly for hospitals and are usually loss-makers. ICU charges are typically lower than actual operating costs (as low as 50%). They are usually on “room & board” basis even though the bulk of the variability in costs are personnel (i.e. nurses). In general, hospitals don’t make money on emergent and critical care – they make money on elective cases (which is why outpatient day surgery centers are highly profitable while large hospitals with EDs and inpatient services often lose money).

    Is there sensationalism in the media? Yes, absolutely. But sometimes breathless media reporting about fire doesn’t mean there is no fire. Those hot spots in the South are real. And I said this was going to happen (not exactly a hard prediction to make if you are even minimally informed about epidemiology). Some people here were gloating a couple of weeks ago that the novel corona virus was a “blue state“ phenomenon. I said that pandemics obviously strike high density areas first, but if they were not contained, they inevitably spread to less densely populated areas eventually.

    • LOL: A123
    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
  35. Twinkie says:
    @unit472

    Some people here are so fixated on some sort of a nefarious government conspiracy that they have lost what little sense they have. They are under the highly unrealistic impression that the economy would have stayed normal during a pandemic if the government did not enact social distancing measures.

    Sweden went with the “let’s just get it over with” government policy and its economy is expected to contract just as much as the neighboring countries that enacted more stringent measures. All they have to show for it is a higher fatalities rate. So it ended up with the worst of both worlds – a high death count and an economic contraction anyway.

    I live in a state that engaged in relatively aggressive social distancing. It paid off and has experienced very low rates of deaths and hospitalizations. The state is now largely re-opened and yet people are not exactly returning to business as usual. All the restaurants are empty. There are no shoppers except at grocery stores. All the businesses that cater to my kids’ extracurricular activities that are usually packed are virtually empty (almost all the parents are still opting for online classes instead of the in-person ones that are now open).

    • Agree: dfordoom
    • Replies: @Getaclue
  36. @Twinkie

    Off-topic, but it has to be asked – DOD head Esper and JCS head Milley have been running their mouths about Trump in a passive aggressive way recently. Is this normal? Should he have fired them already?

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  37. d dan says:
    @Kratoklastes

    “Firstly – it’s not mathematically impossible for more than 50% of a distribution to be above (or below) the average…”

    I agree with that statement in general. I was trying to simplify my comment (to make it easier to understand) by assuming normal distribution for large samples – or at least a roughly symmetric distribution around mean. Furthermore, due to inequalities of American society (e.g. wealth concentration at upper level), it is more likely that more people are below average than above average, … etc.

    But you are right that I probably should not use the words “mathematically impossible”.

  38. Mark G. says:

    The epidemic isn’t occurring uniformly across the country so it is really a local problem at any one point in time. The hotspots change over time, though.

    There have been several reasons given for the current hotspots where the same things have happened in other locations but with no large increases in cases. You can’t attribute the spike in cases mostly to something like ending the lockdowns too early or the BLM mass protests due to this.

    The virus came in primarily through large coastal cities, spread to large urban areas in the interior and then spread out into rural areas. It also appears to spread faster inside. It is this last factor that explains what is happening now. It spreads the most where people are inside the most. When it became extremely hot in the southern states and people moved into air conditioned buildings was when cases started rising there.

    This means that if we listen to people who say this is a national problem and the federal government should therefore come up with a national solution we may make things worse. Decisions should be made primarily at the state, county and city level by local officials looking at local conditions with the federal government providing assistance where needed. For example, Florida might have been better off if it had locked down later as it was heading into summer and reopened in the fall instead of locking down in early spring and reopening in early summer. The northern states still in lockdown should end them since the costs of the lockdowns there are probably now exceeding the benefits.

  39. SafeNow says:
    @usNthem

    Not worried about driving. I am old but have had only one moving violation, speeding, going 40 in a 30 zone as a youngster, and can explain that one. No accidents. But thanks for your concern. I do worry about medical negligence. A 2016 Hopkins report concluded that 250,000 people die every year from medical negligence, the third-leading cause of death.

  40. nebulafox says:
    @Johann Ricke

    Tensions between the executive and the generals on matters of foreign policy and personality alike are nothing new: look up the Moorer-Radford Affair for an example of when the JCS literally spied on the Nixon White House. But I don’t recall this level of passive aggressive badmouthing, even with Obama.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Twinkie
  41. Twinkie says:
    @nebulafox

    But I don’t recall this level of passive aggressive badmouthing, even with Obama.

    That’s because, ordinarily, military and cabinet officials who publicly disobey, disparage, or disagree with a president come off poorly in the media and in the court of the public opinion. MacArthur was extremely popular with the public, yet his disobedience of his president led to his eventual humiliation at the polls.

    What’s different now is that the media actively eggs on disobedience and disloyalty of those who serve under President Trump. Anyone who said anything negative about Trump (his niece, former officials, what have you) is, albeit temporarily, a hero.

    In reality, of course, such critics are useful idiots who are discarded and marginalized as soon as the novelty of their “resistance” runs out.

    • Agree: iffen
    • Replies: @nebulafox
  42. nebulafox says:
    @Twinkie

    You’d think they know better.

    It is pretty clear that when Trump left to his own devices (which a President never is) he’s just not into compulsive interventionism or maximal aggression against all rivals simultaneously as a default policy. I can understand GOP politicos or the top brass not liking that, even if I sharply disagree with them. But the same people who used to think Bush was a war criminal embracing him just to gang up on Trump is just vomit enducing, as well as wrapping themselves in the flag while encouraging or coddling the people tearing down or graffitying statues.

    But then, the treatment of the protests during a pandemic-or their initial refusal to take the pandemic seriously because of “racism” before their control freak phase-should be enough to show their real character. Or their embrace of totalitarian regimes that denied all rights while denouncing authoritarian allies that denied some rights in the 1970s, because no enemies to the Left. That’s modern progressivism.

    Once a whore, always a whore…

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @iffen
  43. Dumbo says:

    I wonder if there was a poll asking people if they’d rather get rid of corona or BLM militants, which one would they chose.

  44. @Ian Smith

    This ignores that they used to vote Republican, as recently as the 2014 midterms a plurality of Asians voted for Republicans. In 1992, 55% voted for Bush for president. In 2016, only 27% voted for Trump.

    No nonwhite group votes Republican now which is of course their own fault as they’ve chosen to embrace white identity politics.

    • Replies: @Ian Smith
  45. Twinkie says:
    @nebulafox

    That’s why I’m increasingly becoming a Francoist. It’s useless having a dialogue with people who have no interest in mutual comprehension and simply want others who live and believe as I do humiliated and laid low.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @nebulafox
  46. iffen says:
    @nebulafox

    Once a whore, always a whore…

    People do change.

    Unless you are defining a person by something other than behavior.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  47. Getaclue says:
    @Twinkie

    On the real numbers, not the incredible lies that have now been documented, this is about the same as a bad Flu — there has been an unbelievable amount of lying involved as to it — from Neal Ferguson as to his “Models”, the WHO and all their bs, and all the aligned NWO “Experts”.

    These people have not kept their agenda hidden — there is no “conspiracy theory” — there are facts and statements that support the NWO “Elites” — Rockefeller Foundation, Gates Foundation, UN, Ford Foundation etc. — have been preparing a Medical Martial Law Agenda to bring about fundamental changes they want and which will drastically change life. You may be all for it, I am not, but don’t be ignorant as to it. Researcher James Corbett has spent 10 years documenting out of their own mouths and documents exactly what they have been planning and are now rolling out. His video on Bill Gates lays out the fact that Gates is not into “charity” (Gates Foundation is half owned by a Family Trust and the other half feeds it — since he started “giving”, with the massive PR push after his anti-trust debacle, Gates has doubled his wealth– he has stated his “vaccines” are for “depopulation” and he is into eugenics…people should be informed as to what is going on before gleefully joining up with these people on their Medical Martial Law Agenda– if they succeed you’ll be living in a system where you have no Rights unless you are one of the “Elite” — I would guess your not one of them….): https://www.corbettreport.com/gates/

  48. Corvinus says:

    “This is why instant media, social and otherwise, is so damaging to our collective mental health…”

    For some in the immediate term, absolutely. But for a number of people who process that information, no.

    “To the understandable objection that while most places have battened down the hatches for a storm that never came”

    First, that storm “never came” because of the measures put in place by the CDC and local health boards. Second, tell that to Arizona, Texas, and Florida who thought they were immune to the ramifications of Covid-19. Now, they are being swamped.

    The fact of the matter is that this pandemic is “very serious” in large part due to the lack of vision of our current chief executive. He has politicized a health issue rather than making it political. Big difference. No wonder why other nations look at U.S. and wonder how can this great nation be so ill-prepared by top federal leadership.

  49. @JohnPlywood

    pre-Great Deal state

    Do you mean Great Depression/New Deal?

    Do you know about the Buffalo Common idea?

  50. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Twinkie

    That’s why I’m increasingly becoming a Francoist. It’s useless having a dialogue with people who have no interest in mutual comprehension and simply want others who live and believe as I do humiliated and laid low.

    It’s not just that people have no interest in mutual comprehension. I don’t think mutual comprehension is even possible. This is not a matter of a simple political disagreement. It’s a clash of fundamental worldviews. It’s not that people are unwilling to listen to the other side’s arguments. They genuinely find the other side’s arguments to be incomprehensible and bizarrre. They genuinely believe that anyone who doesn’t share their worldview must be evil. And that applies as much to the far right as to the Social Justice Left.

    I have no idea what the solution might be. Peaceful separation is clearly impossible. There aren’t too many viable options.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    , @MBlanc46
  51. nebulafox says:
    @iffen

    I’m compulsively sympathetic to people who genuinely are attempting to change the ways of a lifetime, because I know how hard that is, and I know how unkind the world can be to people at rock bottom. I take inspiration from historical figures who overcame and wanted to inspire others to do so. The Empress Theodora-a literal former whore-influenced the laws that gave other women a chance to escape her profession and made life very grim for the empire’s pimps and human traffickers.

    But it takes the genuine, heart felt action from the person first. And I know damned well in my bones when somebody is just covering their ass and fleeing a ship that they were happy to steer yesterday.

  52. nebulafox says:
    @dfordoom

    It’s hard to escape the conclusion that modern technology is changing our mental wiring in ways that we are not evolutionarily prepared to handle, among other factors…

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  53. nebulafox says:
    @Twinkie

    Mondo muyo. The IJA assassins that day were more onto something than they knew.

    I am really cautious because I have seen what happens when I let my icy, calculating brand of wrath off the leash, and it gets disturbing. I want to be a good person, and with some luck, a good husband and father someday. That’s more important than anything passing in the moment. And that’s what They don’t want, in a subliminal way, which suits me: helps override my own doubts about my reproductive fitness.

    But oh man, this year is tempting me.

  54. dfordoom says: • Website
    @nebulafox

    It’s hard to escape the conclusion that modern technology is changing our mental wiring in ways that we are not evolutionarily prepared to handle, among other factors…

    Yes, I think that may well be the case.

  55. MBlanc46 says:
    @dfordoom

    If (relatively) peaceful separation isn’t an option, then there are no options.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  56. dfordoom says: • Website
    @MBlanc46

    If (relatively) peaceful separation isn’t an option, then there are no options.

    The Economic Right/Social Justice Left Coalition which currently has almost unchallenged power. It has almost 100% support from the elite classes, very strong public support, all the money, complete control of the apparatus of social control (police, military, the intelligence agencies, the whole gamut of sophisticated surveillance technology), complete control of the media, the education system, academia and the upper reaches of the bureaucracy.

    If you think they have any intention of permitting the existence of a separated state (let’s call it Redatan) which they would see as a direct challenge to their national and global supremacy, or that they would have any need to permit the existence of such a state, you’re living in a dream world. They will react the same way the U.S. would have reacted in the 1950s if Arizona had declared itself the People’s Republic of Arizona and announced its intention to join the Warsaw Pact.

    In other words they will react with unreasoning hysteria and rabid hate, they will declare Redstan to be an existential threat to freedom and democracy and they will crush it mercilessly. Anyone who was foolish enough to join the government of the breakaway Redstan state or to publicly support it will spend the rest of his life in a cell in Guantanomo Bay, and you can forget the idea that such white supremacist Nazi terrorists will be given fair trials.

    No foreign state will be rash enough to offer even limited support to Redstan.

    And you can depend on it that anyone inside or outside Redstan who voices even limited public support for the breakaway state will be cancelled.

    So (relatively) peaceful separation is definitely not an option.

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