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The Coronavirus Hoax
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That’s what 1-in-7 American adults think it is:

Unfortunately more detailed cross tabs are unavailable, but there is a clear divide on the left between white liberals and non-whites. The former realize the severity of the virus. Those who were virtue-signalling that concern about a potential pandemic was racist a month ago are not doing so now.

Non-whites, especially new Americans, remain naturally skeptical. If it were colloquially referred to as “Saharan virus” instead of “Wuhan virus”, would the black and yellow bars look different? While it’s ridiculous to avoid being geographically descriptive out of fear of stigmatizing people, it may still be in the interest of those ancestrally closest to the origin point for the name not to remind them of that. If it does, some of them may reflexively dismiss or downplay its danger out of a misplaced sense of ethnic pride.

A sizable minority of Republicans are presumably incredulous for political reasons.

There is a stark generational divide as well. A surfeit of conspiracy theories is an inevitable consequence of the ongoing collapse of trust in virtually every major institution in the Western world. As social cohesion continues to break down in the face of increased linguistic, cultural, racial, economic, social, and racial diversity, coordinated responses to crises like this will become increasingly difficult to manage. I doubt there are large swaths of South Korea where an ambulance cannot safely go. The Koreans appear to have a handle on the outbreak. Will America be able to manage the same?

 
• Category: Culture/Society • Tags: Disease, Polling, Science 
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  1. there is a clear divide on the left between white liberals and non-whites.

    I must be missing something – which bar on this graph represents white liberals?

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @anon

    That's as detailed as the cross-tabs get, unfortunately.

  2. Anonymous[332] • Disclaimer says:

    Interesting to see the typically well-informed “others” more likely to think it’s a hoax than blacks.

  3. I was unaware that there were many people who think this way until I looked at the comments – likely white, middle aged Trump supporters – below today’s Scott Adams video on YouTube: Accusations that he’s buying into Democrat fake news for being concerned and generally childish mockery of anyone who is even taking coronavirus seriously. I suppose the lying media are to a large extent responsible for creating such an atmosphere but it’s still disappointing to see such a lack of discernment from people on the Right. It reminds of how they behaved post 9/11.

    • Agree: JimDandy
    • Replies: @aandrews
    @Matra

    "Scott Adams video on YouTube"

    link

  4. There is way too much Fortean thinking in our society today. From the JFK conspiracists to the Moon landing hoaxers to the 9/11 truthers and so on unto a thousand other topics, alternative histories seem to abound and flourish like never before.

    I don’t believe these ideas are taken very seriously by those who profess them, however. You would have to live in a very different mental universe to earnestly believe, for example, that the US government did 9/11, than someone else who did not so believe, and 9/11 truthers show no sign of adhering to their cause so faithfully. So why do they claim to believe it? The simple answer is that they get a lot more social mileage out of the snazzy conspiracy theory than they would out of the plain vanilla truth. It’s kind of like going to prison and realising that just by flashing a certain gang sign, most of the other prisoners will back off and show respect, even though you’ve never actually ran with that gang or any gang. This will work until you learn that the baddest mofo in the cell block belongs to a rival color and now he wants a piece of you, or at least until a significant number of other prisoners start suspecting that you’re full of crap and no longer defer to you, even if they are still quite ready to defer to someone who could legitimately throw up the sign.

    Conspiratorial thinking brings with it the frisson of contrarianism while seldom incurring any true cost, until one day it does. You can spin yarns all day long about the Moon landing precisely because there is nothing of quotidian importance at stake, but you aren’t going to bluff the coronavirus. Even as the pandemic is spurring a renewed interest in hygiene, it is itself serving as a great force for intellectual sanitation; but it’s sad that it takes events like this just to restore a workable baseline of public consensus.

    • Replies: @JimDandy
    @Intelligent Dasein

    "You would have to live in a very different mental universe to earnestly believe, for example, that the US government did 9/11,"

    Exactly! That's just crazy talk. Everyone with a brain knows Israel did 9/11. Thx.

    PS Wash your hands.

    Replies: @anon

    , @dfordoom
    @Intelligent Dasein


    Conspiratorial thinking brings with it the frisson of contrarianism
     
    People want to believe conspiracy theories because it makes them feel special. It makes them feel that they have secret knowledge that ordinary people don't have access to. They might have unsatisfying soul-destroying jobs and their marriages may have broken up and their kids might despise them or they may not have ever managed to get girlfriends but they're special because they know that JFK was killed by LBJ and they know the moon landings were faked.

    The content of the conspiracy theories is irrelevant. They just need to believe in conspiracy theories, any conspiracy theories, so they don't feel so bad about themselves.

    They're the same sorts of people who blame all their problems on the Jews, or the evil commies, or some other group. Again these are beliefs that make them feel less bad about themselves.

    Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @Malla, @Dumbo, @obwandiyag

    , @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    @Intelligent Dasein


    From the JFK conspiracists to the Moon landing hoaxers to the 9/11 truthers and so on...
     
    Inserting the Moon landing conspiracy theories with 9/11 and JFK is a total poofter move.

    The government has publicly admitted that the Saudi government funded several of the hijackers and that Israeli spies were, at a minimum, 1) Hanging around the same parts of Florida where said hijackers trained, as well as 2) Documenting the event as it took place.

    As for JFK, get the HELL out of here if you believe the official story.


    I don’t believe these ideas are taken very seriously by those who profess them, however.
     
    Bullshit!

    So why do they claim to believe it?
     
    Because the official story is full of holes!

    The simple answer is that they get a lot more social mileage out of the snazzy conspiracy theory than they would out of the plain vanilla truth.
     
    Oh, yes, I'm sure I get more social mileage by not publicly contradicting the mainstream narratives put out by the most powerful leaders in the world. Are you nuts?

    Bullshit!


    You can spin yarns all day long about the Moon landing precisely because there is nothing of quotidian importance at stake, but you aren’t going to bluff the coronavirus.
     
    Maybe you can pass off this "Moon landing" crap on some people, but it won't work on me. I know what "controlled opposition" means. Don't you dare come around here again trying to throw the Moon landing fools in with JFK and 9/11, "Intelligent" one.

    Let me ask you this too: when are we gonna find out who Stephen Paddock really was, huh? Yeah, what ever happened to that story?

    Replies: @obwandiyag

    , @obwandiyag
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Kennedy was not shot by Oswald. 9/11 was caused by the US government. The moon landing happened, but they faked the pictures. Your "reasonableness" is unreasonable.

  5. I’ve not gotten a response from the county Republican party to my request that delegates to this weekend’s caucus be permitted to attend via Zoom teleconference. I did offer to provide technical assistance in setting it up — polls and all.

    I’m not going to attend otherwise.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  6. @Intelligent Dasein
    There is way too much Fortean thinking in our society today. From the JFK conspiracists to the Moon landing hoaxers to the 9/11 truthers and so on unto a thousand other topics, alternative histories seem to abound and flourish like never before.

    I don't believe these ideas are taken very seriously by those who profess them, however. You would have to live in a very different mental universe to earnestly believe, for example, that the US government did 9/11, than someone else who did not so believe, and 9/11 truthers show no sign of adhering to their cause so faithfully. So why do they claim to believe it? The simple answer is that they get a lot more social mileage out of the snazzy conspiracy theory than they would out of the plain vanilla truth. It's kind of like going to prison and realising that just by flashing a certain gang sign, most of the other prisoners will back off and show respect, even though you've never actually ran with that gang or any gang. This will work until you learn that the baddest mofo in the cell block belongs to a rival color and now he wants a piece of you, or at least until a significant number of other prisoners start suspecting that you're full of crap and no longer defer to you, even if they are still quite ready to defer to someone who could legitimately throw up the sign.

    Conspiratorial thinking brings with it the frisson of contrarianism while seldom incurring any true cost, until one day it does. You can spin yarns all day long about the Moon landing precisely because there is nothing of quotidian importance at stake, but you aren't going to bluff the coronavirus. Even as the pandemic is spurring a renewed interest in hygiene, it is itself serving as a great force for intellectual sanitation; but it's sad that it takes events like this just to restore a workable baseline of public consensus.

    Replies: @JimDandy, @dfordoom, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @obwandiyag

    “You would have to live in a very different mental universe to earnestly believe, for example, that the US government did 9/11,”

    Exactly! That’s just crazy talk. Everyone with a brain knows Israel did 9/11. Thx.

    PS Wash your hands.

    • Replies: @anon
    @JimDandy


    Exactly! That’s just crazy talk. Everyone with a brain knows Israel did 9/11.
     
    Well, there is the credible allegation that the Israelis were aware of the plot in progress and did nothing about it. They were tailing one of the guys involved. They had to have known, "how could they have not? That's almost a direct quote." I would not put it past them considering their nefarious reputation. Over Syria, they are using passenger airliners as shields to attack that country. They've made it clear they have no regard for human life that's not their own. That's true irrespective of what their many sycophantic defenders here at Unz say.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh04uu1EkIU

    Replies: @JimDandy

  7. @Intelligent Dasein
    There is way too much Fortean thinking in our society today. From the JFK conspiracists to the Moon landing hoaxers to the 9/11 truthers and so on unto a thousand other topics, alternative histories seem to abound and flourish like never before.

    I don't believe these ideas are taken very seriously by those who profess them, however. You would have to live in a very different mental universe to earnestly believe, for example, that the US government did 9/11, than someone else who did not so believe, and 9/11 truthers show no sign of adhering to their cause so faithfully. So why do they claim to believe it? The simple answer is that they get a lot more social mileage out of the snazzy conspiracy theory than they would out of the plain vanilla truth. It's kind of like going to prison and realising that just by flashing a certain gang sign, most of the other prisoners will back off and show respect, even though you've never actually ran with that gang or any gang. This will work until you learn that the baddest mofo in the cell block belongs to a rival color and now he wants a piece of you, or at least until a significant number of other prisoners start suspecting that you're full of crap and no longer defer to you, even if they are still quite ready to defer to someone who could legitimately throw up the sign.

    Conspiratorial thinking brings with it the frisson of contrarianism while seldom incurring any true cost, until one day it does. You can spin yarns all day long about the Moon landing precisely because there is nothing of quotidian importance at stake, but you aren't going to bluff the coronavirus. Even as the pandemic is spurring a renewed interest in hygiene, it is itself serving as a great force for intellectual sanitation; but it's sad that it takes events like this just to restore a workable baseline of public consensus.

    Replies: @JimDandy, @dfordoom, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @obwandiyag

    Conspiratorial thinking brings with it the frisson of contrarianism

    People want to believe conspiracy theories because it makes them feel special. It makes them feel that they have secret knowledge that ordinary people don’t have access to. They might have unsatisfying soul-destroying jobs and their marriages may have broken up and their kids might despise them or they may not have ever managed to get girlfriends but they’re special because they know that JFK was killed by LBJ and they know the moon landings were faked.

    The content of the conspiracy theories is irrelevant. They just need to believe in conspiracy theories, any conspiracy theories, so they don’t feel so bad about themselves.

    They’re the same sorts of people who blame all their problems on the Jews, or the evil commies, or some other group. Again these are beliefs that make them feel less bad about themselves.

    • Agree: Yahya K., AaronB
    • Troll: Malla, Daniel Williams
    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    @dfordoom

    More Hasbara-esque bullshit.

    There's nothing the mainstream authorities love more than promoting laughable conspiracy theories (like the Moon landing and Alex Jones) to try and discredit actual efforts to find out the truth about obvious government malfeasance, ala JFK and 9/11.

    Postscript, apropos of nothing: No, Russia did not hack the servers; yes, Seth Rich was the leaker; yes, the FBI lied.

    Replies: @follyofwar

    , @Malla
    @dfordoom

    Jews and or Communists are experts in this non sense. People who criticize us are losers, they have some 'authoritarian personality', they are closet homosexuals etc.... People who go along with our agenda are cool, heroic.

    Cunning manipulative people huh. All Mindgames and tricks.

    , @Dumbo
    @dfordoom

    There's also people who think they are special because they DON'T believe in "conspiracy theories".

    The truth is that we have limited information about a lot of things, there are very few things that we can know with 100% certitude, even our own memory and senses can be unreliable.

    Besides, some actors, particularly government or powerful people, benefit from not telling the whole truth or passing on distorted information, so you also have to take that into account.

    Personally I think a certain amount of skepticism is useful, as long as you don't exaggerate.

    Also remember that things that were once considered "conspiracy theories" such as Gladio and Tuskegee Study have been admitted by the authorities long ago.

    There are a lot of unclear or unexplained things about 9/11. It is obvious that the whole "Bin Laden" thing was an invention from beginning to end ("burial at the sea"). But other things could be real. Some people are insane and become paranoid and are unable to differentiate between things that are possible or likely and things that are not.

    So, of course, that doesn't mean that NOTHING we hear in the news or from government can be trusted, that way lies madness, but we need some common sense. The basic rule is that mass media because of its nature tends to increase things, so I guess you can have a sort of Pareto rule, 80% real and 20% lies / misinformation.

    Not long ago we were being told by the media that nazis were making lampshades from the skin of prisoners, that the Katyn massacre had not been caused by the Soviets, that there was no mass hunger in Ukraine in the 30s, was that truth or a lie? It is not always easy to know what is true and what isn't.

    , @obwandiyag
    @dfordoom

    Well, usually I agree with you, but here is where I part company with you and start to believe that maybe you are sort of controlled opposition from the left, saying moderate vaguely leftish kind of things in order to siphon off the potency (yeah I used that word in it's real meaning--power) of the hard core.

    All conspiracy theories are correct. It isn't even arguable.

    Replies: @dfordoom

  8. For those of you who wish to dismiss consoiracies, you only have one l=tiny hurdle. The record is full of actual conspiracies.

  9. Could we have silver lining in the coronavirus cloud in that some of the elites might decide that the lack of trust in institutions that they are engendering in the hoi polloi and their complete disregard for the collapsing infrastructure and the total wasting of any semblance of autarky, might be bad things?

  10. @Intelligent Dasein
    There is way too much Fortean thinking in our society today. From the JFK conspiracists to the Moon landing hoaxers to the 9/11 truthers and so on unto a thousand other topics, alternative histories seem to abound and flourish like never before.

    I don't believe these ideas are taken very seriously by those who profess them, however. You would have to live in a very different mental universe to earnestly believe, for example, that the US government did 9/11, than someone else who did not so believe, and 9/11 truthers show no sign of adhering to their cause so faithfully. So why do they claim to believe it? The simple answer is that they get a lot more social mileage out of the snazzy conspiracy theory than they would out of the plain vanilla truth. It's kind of like going to prison and realising that just by flashing a certain gang sign, most of the other prisoners will back off and show respect, even though you've never actually ran with that gang or any gang. This will work until you learn that the baddest mofo in the cell block belongs to a rival color and now he wants a piece of you, or at least until a significant number of other prisoners start suspecting that you're full of crap and no longer defer to you, even if they are still quite ready to defer to someone who could legitimately throw up the sign.

    Conspiratorial thinking brings with it the frisson of contrarianism while seldom incurring any true cost, until one day it does. You can spin yarns all day long about the Moon landing precisely because there is nothing of quotidian importance at stake, but you aren't going to bluff the coronavirus. Even as the pandemic is spurring a renewed interest in hygiene, it is itself serving as a great force for intellectual sanitation; but it's sad that it takes events like this just to restore a workable baseline of public consensus.

    Replies: @JimDandy, @dfordoom, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @obwandiyag

    From the JFK conspiracists to the Moon landing hoaxers to the 9/11 truthers and so on…

    Inserting the Moon landing conspiracy theories with 9/11 and JFK is a total poofter move.

    The government has publicly admitted that the Saudi government funded several of the hijackers and that Israeli spies were, at a minimum, 1) Hanging around the same parts of Florida where said hijackers trained, as well as 2) Documenting the event as it took place.

    As for JFK, get the HELL out of here if you believe the official story.

    I don’t believe these ideas are taken very seriously by those who profess them, however.

    Bullshit!

    So why do they claim to believe it?

    Because the official story is full of holes!

    The simple answer is that they get a lot more social mileage out of the snazzy conspiracy theory than they would out of the plain vanilla truth.

    Oh, yes, I’m sure I get more social mileage by not publicly contradicting the mainstream narratives put out by the most powerful leaders in the world. Are you nuts?

    Bullshit!

    You can spin yarns all day long about the Moon landing precisely because there is nothing of quotidian importance at stake, but you aren’t going to bluff the coronavirus.

    Maybe you can pass off this “Moon landing” crap on some people, but it won’t work on me. I know what “controlled opposition” means. Don’t you dare come around here again trying to throw the Moon landing fools in with JFK and 9/11, “Intelligent” one.

    Let me ask you this too: when are we gonna find out who Stephen Paddock really was, huh? Yeah, what ever happened to that story?

    • Agree: follyofwar, Realist
    • Replies: @obwandiyag
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Thank you. You are right. Intelligent is wrong. And inserting the moon landing, you are right, is a poofter move. Typical rhetorical ploy.

  11. @dfordoom
    @Intelligent Dasein


    Conspiratorial thinking brings with it the frisson of contrarianism
     
    People want to believe conspiracy theories because it makes them feel special. It makes them feel that they have secret knowledge that ordinary people don't have access to. They might have unsatisfying soul-destroying jobs and their marriages may have broken up and their kids might despise them or they may not have ever managed to get girlfriends but they're special because they know that JFK was killed by LBJ and they know the moon landings were faked.

    The content of the conspiracy theories is irrelevant. They just need to believe in conspiracy theories, any conspiracy theories, so they don't feel so bad about themselves.

    They're the same sorts of people who blame all their problems on the Jews, or the evil commies, or some other group. Again these are beliefs that make them feel less bad about themselves.

    Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @Malla, @Dumbo, @obwandiyag

    More Hasbara-esque bullshit.

    There’s nothing the mainstream authorities love more than promoting laughable conspiracy theories (like the Moon landing and Alex Jones) to try and discredit actual efforts to find out the truth about obvious government malfeasance, ala JFK and 9/11.

    Postscript, apropos of nothing: No, Russia did not hack the servers; yes, Seth Rich was the leaker; yes, the FBI lied.

    • Replies: @follyofwar
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    I'm with you on the "no one died at Sandy Hook" crack-pots, but those questioning the Moon Landing should not be dismissed so cavalierly.

    Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @Mr. Rational

  12. @dfordoom
    @Intelligent Dasein


    Conspiratorial thinking brings with it the frisson of contrarianism
     
    People want to believe conspiracy theories because it makes them feel special. It makes them feel that they have secret knowledge that ordinary people don't have access to. They might have unsatisfying soul-destroying jobs and their marriages may have broken up and their kids might despise them or they may not have ever managed to get girlfriends but they're special because they know that JFK was killed by LBJ and they know the moon landings were faked.

    The content of the conspiracy theories is irrelevant. They just need to believe in conspiracy theories, any conspiracy theories, so they don't feel so bad about themselves.

    They're the same sorts of people who blame all their problems on the Jews, or the evil commies, or some other group. Again these are beliefs that make them feel less bad about themselves.

    Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @Malla, @Dumbo, @obwandiyag

    Jews and or Communists are experts in this non sense. People who criticize us are losers, they have some ‘authoritarian personality’, they are closet homosexuals etc…. People who go along with our agenda are cool, heroic.

    Cunning manipulative people huh. All Mindgames and tricks.

    • Agree: Robert Dolan
  13. Regarding the humidity discussion:

    Growth Rate Plotted Against Temperature and Humidity by Country | Sources/Methodology in Comments from COVID19

    Some additional data. The theory remains unproven.

    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @vok3


    The theory remains unproven.
     
    It kinda looks DISproven. Granted, other theory was about the affect of absolute humidity, not relative.

    .


    PS: I wonder why China is not shown in the weekly growth vs. RH graph. Would the circle size (I assume representing number of cases) have been overwhelming?

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb

    , @res
    @vok3

    Thank you for that link! They give links to their data (and even more detailed underlying data as well). I took their data and added a column for specific humidity. I reproduced their plots for the exponential coefficient and added one for SH. The R^2 value for each plot was:
    Temperature 0.2657
    Relative Humidity 0.0041
    Specific Humidity 0.2849

    Thanks for supplying additional evidence supporting the theory!

    Does anyone know why China was left out of that data? Seems like an important data point.

    P.S. If you want to engage in this conversation please learn what absolute and specific humidity are.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humidity#Types
    If you need more detail see my recent comments.

  14. I would put myself on the red and white bars, were “a hoax” changed to “overblown”, A.E. That would be a better polling question, IMO. I wonder how well the numbers would correlate with TV watching. It makes sense the older people would be more worried, but they also watch TV more incessantly (if that’s possible).

    You’ve got Steve Sailer barely leaving his closet, err, office, with 5 posts a day on this and my wife telling me I ought to be in quarantine at an aircraft hangar – there are nice couches but there’s no heat, but I will shortly get outside into some sunshine. It’s the best disinfectant!

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Yeah.

    It's definitely not a hoax, but I can't tell how bad it is yet, since all we get is overblown media hype that repeats itself.

    To quote John Prine: "And all the news just repeats itself ..... like some forgotten dream .... that we've both seen."

    In any case, having a TV in a room is like having a Jew in one's house.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  15. @Achmed E. Newman
    I would put myself on the red and white bars, were "a hoax" changed to "overblown", A.E. That would be a better polling question, IMO. I wonder how well the numbers would correlate with TV watching. It makes sense the older people would be more worried, but they also watch TV more incessantly (if that's possible).

    You've got Steve Sailer barely leaving his closet, err, office, with 5 posts a day on this and my wife telling me I ought to be in quarantine at an aircraft hangar - there are nice couches but there's no heat, but I will shortly get outside into some sunshine. It's the best disinfectant!

    Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Yeah.

    It’s definitely not a hoax, but I can’t tell how bad it is yet, since all we get is overblown media hype that repeats itself.

    To quote John Prine: “And all the news just repeats itself ….. like some forgotten dream …. that we’ve both seen.”

    In any case, having a TV in a room is like having a Jew in one’s house.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    John Prine told people to blow up their TV's back in the '70s. Nobody ever listens to those old folks singers, probably due to shit like "hey farmer farmer, put away that DDT now ..." while I'm getting ready for a summer full of mosquitoes.

    Anyway, John Prine in his prime:

    Blow up your TV,
    throw out your papers,
    move out to the country,
    build you a home.


    Plant a little garden,
    eat a lot of peaches,
    try to find Jesus,
    on your own.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BofvfVPFbiM

    Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

  16. @vok3
    Regarding the humidity discussion:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/fgzknk/growth_rate_plotted_against_temperature_and/

    Some additional data. The theory remains unproven.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @res

    The theory remains unproven.

    It kinda looks DISproven. Granted, other theory was about the affect of absolute humidity, not relative.

    .

    PS: I wonder why China is not shown in the weekly growth vs. RH graph. Would the circle size (I assume representing number of cases) have been overwhelming?

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The Chinese virus brings with it a boatload of unknowns. I would like to know if this virus will behave like other viruses and fade in the warm and hot months.

  17. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Yeah.

    It's definitely not a hoax, but I can't tell how bad it is yet, since all we get is overblown media hype that repeats itself.

    To quote John Prine: "And all the news just repeats itself ..... like some forgotten dream .... that we've both seen."

    In any case, having a TV in a room is like having a Jew in one's house.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    John Prine told people to blow up their TV’s back in the ’70s. Nobody ever listens to those old folks singers, probably due to shit like “hey farmer farmer, put away that DDT now …” while I’m getting ready for a summer full of mosquitoes.

    Anyway, John Prine in his prime:

    Blow up your TV,
    throw out your papers,
    move out to the country,
    build you a home.

    Plant a little garden,
    eat a lot of peaches,
    try to find Jesus,
    on your own.

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    @Achmed E. Newman

    In fairness, 1) Prine never criticized DDT (after all, we might need pesticides to grow weed, without which there can be no great songs like 'Illegal Smile'), and 2) TVs should absolutely be blown up.

    As far as common tree fruits, yellow peaches are third on my list, behind Asian pears and apples, but ahead of Bartlett pears, plums, and apricots. I've never liked white peaches or nectarines.

    With apologies to Prine, I'd rather watch the apples grow

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em1zcZiVRRw

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  18. If only there was a children’s fable about someone who constantly lies and loses the trust of the public so that when there actually is a critically important message nobody believes them.

    • LOL: Twodees Partain
    • Replies: @res
    @Magic Dirt Resident


    If only there was a children’s fable about someone who constantly lies and loses the trust of the public so that when there actually is a critically important message nobody believes them.
     
    Indeed. The funny thing is I haven't heard that fable much recently. Is it not being taught anymore?
    , @Audacious Epigone
    @Magic Dirt Resident

    Just the first 20 seconds or so:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0o0-h4puHc

  19. To those who remain convinced that Covid-19 is a hoax, then the owners of the NBA must be the biggest idiots on earth. They suspended the rest of the season and the playoffs after one player on the Utah Jazz contracted the virus. Before he was identified, his team played a half a dozen games on a road trip, exposing all whose sweat mingled with his to the disease.

    It had to cost the owners tens of millions in revenue, but, to not cancel the season after they knew about it would have been worse, considering the probable lawsuits if any other players became infected and died. Most of us will be perfectly fine this spring and won’t miss the NBA playoffs. Will baseball cancel next, or will they still play before empty stadiums?

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @follyofwar

    The litigious aftermath of this thing, however it plays out, is going to be nauseating. Unless you're a lawyer, that is!

  20. @dfordoom
    @Intelligent Dasein


    Conspiratorial thinking brings with it the frisson of contrarianism
     
    People want to believe conspiracy theories because it makes them feel special. It makes them feel that they have secret knowledge that ordinary people don't have access to. They might have unsatisfying soul-destroying jobs and their marriages may have broken up and their kids might despise them or they may not have ever managed to get girlfriends but they're special because they know that JFK was killed by LBJ and they know the moon landings were faked.

    The content of the conspiracy theories is irrelevant. They just need to believe in conspiracy theories, any conspiracy theories, so they don't feel so bad about themselves.

    They're the same sorts of people who blame all their problems on the Jews, or the evil commies, or some other group. Again these are beliefs that make them feel less bad about themselves.

    Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @Malla, @Dumbo, @obwandiyag

    There’s also people who think they are special because they DON’T believe in “conspiracy theories”.

    The truth is that we have limited information about a lot of things, there are very few things that we can know with 100% certitude, even our own memory and senses can be unreliable.

    Besides, some actors, particularly government or powerful people, benefit from not telling the whole truth or passing on distorted information, so you also have to take that into account.

    Personally I think a certain amount of skepticism is useful, as long as you don’t exaggerate.

    Also remember that things that were once considered “conspiracy theories” such as Gladio and Tuskegee Study have been admitted by the authorities long ago.

    There are a lot of unclear or unexplained things about 9/11. It is obvious that the whole “Bin Laden” thing was an invention from beginning to end (“burial at the sea”). But other things could be real. Some people are insane and become paranoid and are unable to differentiate between things that are possible or likely and things that are not.

    So, of course, that doesn’t mean that NOTHING we hear in the news or from government can be trusted, that way lies madness, but we need some common sense. The basic rule is that mass media because of its nature tends to increase things, so I guess you can have a sort of Pareto rule, 80% real and 20% lies / misinformation.

    Not long ago we were being told by the media that nazis were making lampshades from the skin of prisoners, that the Katyn massacre had not been caused by the Soviets, that there was no mass hunger in Ukraine in the 30s, was that truth or a lie? It is not always easy to know what is true and what isn’t.

    • Agree: follyofwar
  21. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    @dfordoom

    More Hasbara-esque bullshit.

    There's nothing the mainstream authorities love more than promoting laughable conspiracy theories (like the Moon landing and Alex Jones) to try and discredit actual efforts to find out the truth about obvious government malfeasance, ala JFK and 9/11.

    Postscript, apropos of nothing: No, Russia did not hack the servers; yes, Seth Rich was the leaker; yes, the FBI lied.

    Replies: @follyofwar

    I’m with you on the “no one died at Sandy Hook” crack-pots, but those questioning the Moon Landing should not be dismissed so cavalierly.

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    @follyofwar

    What is the supposed political motivation for the government faking a Moon landing?

    Replies: @Lars Porsena

    , @Mr. Rational
    @follyofwar

    You obviously have no idea what the USA was like coming out of the 1950's.

    It was packed to the rafters with people who did NOT grow up sucking on the glass teat all day and would have laughed themselves silly if you told them that there would be "affirmative action grading" in the near future.  People read books, actually learned math in school, and built things both mechanical and electronic.  The first home computers were built by a generation which cut its teeth on Heathkits.

    That America had people who did things like checking the math in science fiction stories and giving feedback to the authors and editors (I've seen this included in some of the anthologies).  The math for the rocketry part of the moon landings is pretty straightforward as such things go; anyone with a slide rule (and there were millions of them) can cross-check the delta-V requirements against the declared vehicle and fuel masses and get a solid yes/no on the possibility of the vehicle doing what NASA declared it would do.

    The answer is "yes", BTW.  You can do this yourself a lot more easily today than anyone could in 1969.  You just have to understand the rocket equation (Δv = V(exhaust) * ln(mass_initial/mass_final)).  You can of course work that equation either way, from a Δv requirement to the resulting mass-ratio.  You have 3 distinct propellant combinations to work with (kerosene/LOX for the booster, LH2/LOX for the second and third stages, and I think N2O4/UDMH for everything else) and you have to look up the exhaust velocities for the various propellant/engine combos.  You start at the burn to leave lunar orbit for return to Earth and work backwards.

    There were at least a million Americans capable of running those numbers in 1969, and plenty more around the world.  There had to have been thousands who did so.  And NOT ONE got an answer that said "this is impossible" and blew the whistle, not even the Soviets.

    We put men on the moon in 1969.  You can bet your life on it.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Pierre de Craon, @Calculator

  22. There is a stark generational divide as well.

    A political leader is going to have to come forward and call for the complete and total financial liquidation of all US citizens born before 1965 and all foreigners of any age. Joe Biden and his GREEDY WHITE GEEZER STRATEGY and his AUNT JEMIMA STRATEGY have been kicking Bernie Sander’s ass all over the USA and he won’t stop, daddy-O. Got that, Jack. CORNPOP all day babycakes! You want to step outside? I’ll knock you on your ass. Your full of shit! I must admit to loving Biden’s tough guy talk. It’s very funny and charming. AR-14? Does anybody bid for an AR-15? You do? Come on man, how about an AR-17.5? Barack is clean and he talks good! I mean it, Jack! Hey! I ain’t talking like this to you Mr. AE, know what I mean, jellybean?

    Then you call for Sovereign Debt Secessionism and mass private debt extinguishment and the arrest and conviction and forcible exile of all bankers. Sound extreme? So be it, the bankers need to be dealt with harshly.

    A surfeit of conspiracy theories is an inevitable consequence of the ongoing collapse of trust in virtually every major institution in the Western world. As social cohesion continues to break down in the face of increased linguistic, cultural, racial, economic, social, and racial diversity, coordinated responses to crises like this will become increasingly difficult to manage.

    For well over 50 years, the globalizers and bankers and treasonites and the various ruling classes of the European Christian nation states have been using mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration as demographic weapons to attack and destroy cultural cohesion in their respective nations. Trump and Biden are two evil and immoral politician whores who push mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration.

    I doubt there are large swaths of South Korea where an ambulance cannot safely go. The Koreans appear to have a handle on the outbreak. Will America be able to manage the same?

    Multicultural mayhem is part of the plan by the globalizers and the bankers and the ruling class of the American Empire to destroy the historic American nation and to demographically flood out the European Christian ancestral core of the USA. Those of you who claim there is a British Protestant ancestral core of the USA are correct in doing so, but I am only partially British Protestant myself and European Christian brings in all the German Americans in the USA and German Americans must be appealed to directly in future politics in the USA.

    A currency crisis and Civil War II are baked into the cake for the American Empire, and smart people will take that as a base line scenario — to steal a term — for how to strategize and think about politics for the next few years and the next few decades and into the extended future.

    • Replies: @Brian Reilly
    @Charles Pewitt

    Charles, Nice rant. I am with yu on much of that, but... there will be no civil war of the sort you imply. The currency collapse is in full swing, and the Coronavirus® Hoax may be the end of the U$Dollar, but there is not going to be any sort of a shooting war in the US. TOo late for that, there just is not enough belly for it.

    There will be some dangerous precincts, and people disappearing, but no mass movements or armed forces deployment in CONUS.

  23. @Achmed E. Newman
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    John Prine told people to blow up their TV's back in the '70s. Nobody ever listens to those old folks singers, probably due to shit like "hey farmer farmer, put away that DDT now ..." while I'm getting ready for a summer full of mosquitoes.

    Anyway, John Prine in his prime:

    Blow up your TV,
    throw out your papers,
    move out to the country,
    build you a home.


    Plant a little garden,
    eat a lot of peaches,
    try to find Jesus,
    on your own.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BofvfVPFbiM

    Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    In fairness, 1) Prine never criticized DDT (after all, we might need pesticides to grow weed, without which there can be no great songs like ‘Illegal Smile’), and 2) TVs should absolutely be blown up.

    As far as common tree fruits, yellow peaches are third on my list, behind Asian pears and apples, but ahead of Bartlett pears, plums, and apricots. I’ve never liked white peaches or nectarines.

    With apologies to Prine, I’d rather watch the apples grow

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    My wording didn't make it clear, John, but no, I was referring to Joni Mitchell - Big Yellow Taxi - an otherwise great song tune- and lyric-wise.

    Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @obwandiyag

  24. @follyofwar
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    I'm with you on the "no one died at Sandy Hook" crack-pots, but those questioning the Moon Landing should not be dismissed so cavalierly.

    Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @Mr. Rational

    What is the supposed political motivation for the government faking a Moon landing?

    • Replies: @Lars Porsena
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    I'm not saying it was a hoax, but among a lot of people there is a big whiff of a "We have become like gods!" interpretation of the moon landing. And the space race was very very politicized and a part of the Cold War.

  25. GEORGE WASHINGTON AND ANDREW JACKSON KNEW THAT BANKERS ARE WANKERS!

    George Washington didn’t much care for his financial factor in London making good money while sipping ale and doing little else.

    Andrew Jackson went directly after the bankers in Boston and New York and Philadelphia and Andrew Jackson killed the Second Bank of the US.

    The banker wankers are using BAT SOUP FEVER as a pretext to grab more conjured up loot from the privately controlled Federal Reserve Bank. The globalized bankers are money-grubbing con artists who never let a good crisis go to waste. The bankers are fully globalized and they are screaming for more money and more loot and more bailouts and more Fed cash and dollar swaps and everything else!

    Now is the time for the Pewitt Conjured Loot Portion(PCLP).

    The Pewitt Conjured Loot Portion(PCLP) will grant each American citizen with all blood ancestors born in colonial America or in the USA before 1924 the sum of ten thousand dollars a month — tax free.

    Monetary Policy Must Benefit White Core Americans.

    White Core America will use the Pewitt Conjured Loot Portion(PCLP) to cut out the banker middle man and to restore honor and integrity and decency to all Americans — especially young White Core Americans.

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    @Charles Pewitt

    Charles,

    Do you like Calvin Coolidge?

    Yours very truly,

    John Burns
    Gettysburg Partisan

    http://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2013/12/john-burns-gettysburg.jpg

  26. @vok3
    Regarding the humidity discussion:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/fgzknk/growth_rate_plotted_against_temperature_and/

    Some additional data. The theory remains unproven.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @res

    Thank you for that link! They give links to their data (and even more detailed underlying data as well). I took their data and added a column for specific humidity. I reproduced their plots for the exponential coefficient and added one for SH. The R^2 value for each plot was:
    Temperature 0.2657
    Relative Humidity 0.0041
    Specific Humidity 0.2849

    Thanks for supplying additional evidence supporting the theory!

    Does anyone know why China was left out of that data? Seems like an important data point.

    P.S. If you want to engage in this conversation please learn what absolute and specific humidity are.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humidity#Types
    If you need more detail see my recent comments.

  27. @Magic Dirt Resident
    If only there was a children's fable about someone who constantly lies and loses the trust of the public so that when there actually is a critically important message nobody believes them.

    Replies: @res, @Audacious Epigone

    If only there was a children’s fable about someone who constantly lies and loses the trust of the public so that when there actually is a critically important message nobody believes them.

    Indeed. The funny thing is I haven’t heard that fable much recently. Is it not being taught anymore?

  28. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    @follyofwar

    What is the supposed political motivation for the government faking a Moon landing?

    Replies: @Lars Porsena

    I’m not saying it was a hoax, but among a lot of people there is a big whiff of a “We have become like gods!” interpretation of the moon landing. And the space race was very very politicized and a part of the Cold War.

  29. This BAT SOUP FEVER plague is the pin that is popping the globalized asset bubbles created by the globalized central banker shysters. The asset bubbles in stocks, bonds and real estate should never have been allowed to balloon to such dimensions as they were allowed to. Greedy bankers and evil plutocrats and money-grubbing globalizers made big loot from clam raking massive amounts of cash from the globalized asset bubbles.

    There isn’t any such thing as capitalism anymore, there is only monetary extremism from the globalized central banker shysters.

    The asset bubbles in stocks and bonds and real estate were created and only kept inflated by the monetary extremism — low or zero or negative interest rates, asset purchases, quantitative easing, repo market madness, dollar swaps, direct purchases of stocks and corporate debt and sovereign debt, balance sheet ballooning…etc. — of the globalized central banker shysters.

  30. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    @Achmed E. Newman

    In fairness, 1) Prine never criticized DDT (after all, we might need pesticides to grow weed, without which there can be no great songs like 'Illegal Smile'), and 2) TVs should absolutely be blown up.

    As far as common tree fruits, yellow peaches are third on my list, behind Asian pears and apples, but ahead of Bartlett pears, plums, and apricots. I've never liked white peaches or nectarines.

    With apologies to Prine, I'd rather watch the apples grow

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em1zcZiVRRw

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    My wording didn’t make it clear, John, but no, I was referring to Joni Mitchell – Big Yellow Taxi – an otherwise great song tune- and lyric-wise.

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Don't worry, I got it.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    , @obwandiyag
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I can't believe you DDT-supporters.

    When I was a kid, there were no hawks or herons flying above my parents ex-urban home. Now there are, and its not even all that ex- anymore. DDT, for your information, kills a lot more than mosquitoes, you stupid wanker.

    And what do you mean "all the mosquitoes"? What mosquitoes?

    Past couple summers, where there used to be a cloud of them, there have been no bugs around my porchlight. Even if I leave it on for a long time.

    Maybe you're not old enough. But I am old enough to remember hosing off windshields and grilles. Those praying mantis splats were particularly tenacious. No more. No more at-tall.

    Don't tell me you got bugs. I won't believe you.

    Sometimes environmentalists are just plain right.

    Hey, Farmer, put away the neonicotinoids now.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Homeschooling Mom in NY

  31. anon[159] • Disclaimer says:
    @JimDandy
    @Intelligent Dasein

    "You would have to live in a very different mental universe to earnestly believe, for example, that the US government did 9/11,"

    Exactly! That's just crazy talk. Everyone with a brain knows Israel did 9/11. Thx.

    PS Wash your hands.

    Replies: @anon

    Exactly! That’s just crazy talk. Everyone with a brain knows Israel did 9/11.

    Well, there is the credible allegation that the Israelis were aware of the plot in progress and did nothing about it. They were tailing one of the guys involved. They had to have known, “how could they have not? That’s almost a direct quote.” I would not put it past them considering their nefarious reputation. Over Syria, they are using passenger airliners as shields to attack that country. They’ve made it clear they have no regard for human life that’s not their own. That’s true irrespective of what their many sycophantic defenders here at Unz say.

    • Replies: @JimDandy
    @anon

    Yes, I'm aware. Israel--at the very least--knew what was going to happen well before it happened.

    At the very least.

  32. Globalization Is Greed And Treason.

    Financialization Is Greed And Treason.

    Transnationalism Is Greed And Treason.

    Globalism Is Greed And Treason.

    Neoliberalism Is Greed And Treason.

    The American Empire Is Greed And Treason.

    https://twitter.com/DVATW/status/1238073137813749762?s=20

    Tweets from 2014 and 2015:

    • Replies: @Talha
    @Charles Pewitt

    Speaking of Italy...I guess there is always time for extra degeneracy even as the world falls apart around you:
    https://twitter.com/marlo_safi/status/1238171313874894850

    Reason #782 why Chris Hedges was right in his assessment:
    'Pornography Is What the End of the World Looks Like'
    https://www.truthdig.com/articles/pornography-is-what-the-end-of-the-world-looks-like/

    Peace.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @songbird

  33. @Achmed E. Newman
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    My wording didn't make it clear, John, but no, I was referring to Joni Mitchell - Big Yellow Taxi - an otherwise great song tune- and lyric-wise.

    Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @obwandiyag

    Don’t worry, I got it.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Oh, yeah, that worked much better for your weed joke. Sorry 'bout that.

  34. @Charles Pewitt
    GEORGE WASHINGTON AND ANDREW JACKSON KNEW THAT BANKERS ARE WANKERS!

    George Washington didn't much care for his financial factor in London making good money while sipping ale and doing little else.

    Andrew Jackson went directly after the bankers in Boston and New York and Philadelphia and Andrew Jackson killed the Second Bank of the US.

    The banker wankers are using BAT SOUP FEVER as a pretext to grab more conjured up loot from the privately controlled Federal Reserve Bank. The globalized bankers are money-grubbing con artists who never let a good crisis go to waste. The bankers are fully globalized and they are screaming for more money and more loot and more bailouts and more Fed cash and dollar swaps and everything else!

    Now is the time for the Pewitt Conjured Loot Portion(PCLP).

    The Pewitt Conjured Loot Portion(PCLP) will grant each American citizen with all blood ancestors born in colonial America or in the USA before 1924 the sum of ten thousand dollars a month — tax free.

    Monetary Policy Must Benefit White Core Americans.

    White Core America will use the Pewitt Conjured Loot Portion(PCLP) to cut out the banker middle man and to restore honor and integrity and decency to all Americans — especially young White Core Americans.

    https://twitter.com/NorthmanTrader/status/1088541616514785282?s=20

    https://twitter.com/NorthmanTrader/status/1238111163369631746?s=20

    Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Charles,

    Do you like Calvin Coolidge?

    Yours very truly,

    John Burns
    Gettysburg Partisan

  35. @Achmed E. Newman
    @vok3


    The theory remains unproven.
     
    It kinda looks DISproven. Granted, other theory was about the affect of absolute humidity, not relative.

    .


    PS: I wonder why China is not shown in the weekly growth vs. RH graph. Would the circle size (I assume representing number of cases) have been overwhelming?

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb

    The Chinese virus brings with it a boatload of unknowns. I would like to know if this virus will behave like other viruses and fade in the warm and hot months.

  36. @Intelligent Dasein
    There is way too much Fortean thinking in our society today. From the JFK conspiracists to the Moon landing hoaxers to the 9/11 truthers and so on unto a thousand other topics, alternative histories seem to abound and flourish like never before.

    I don't believe these ideas are taken very seriously by those who profess them, however. You would have to live in a very different mental universe to earnestly believe, for example, that the US government did 9/11, than someone else who did not so believe, and 9/11 truthers show no sign of adhering to their cause so faithfully. So why do they claim to believe it? The simple answer is that they get a lot more social mileage out of the snazzy conspiracy theory than they would out of the plain vanilla truth. It's kind of like going to prison and realising that just by flashing a certain gang sign, most of the other prisoners will back off and show respect, even though you've never actually ran with that gang or any gang. This will work until you learn that the baddest mofo in the cell block belongs to a rival color and now he wants a piece of you, or at least until a significant number of other prisoners start suspecting that you're full of crap and no longer defer to you, even if they are still quite ready to defer to someone who could legitimately throw up the sign.

    Conspiratorial thinking brings with it the frisson of contrarianism while seldom incurring any true cost, until one day it does. You can spin yarns all day long about the Moon landing precisely because there is nothing of quotidian importance at stake, but you aren't going to bluff the coronavirus. Even as the pandemic is spurring a renewed interest in hygiene, it is itself serving as a great force for intellectual sanitation; but it's sad that it takes events like this just to restore a workable baseline of public consensus.

    Replies: @JimDandy, @dfordoom, @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @obwandiyag

    Kennedy was not shot by Oswald. 9/11 was caused by the US government. The moon landing happened, but they faked the pictures. Your “reasonableness” is unreasonable.

  37. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    @Intelligent Dasein


    From the JFK conspiracists to the Moon landing hoaxers to the 9/11 truthers and so on...
     
    Inserting the Moon landing conspiracy theories with 9/11 and JFK is a total poofter move.

    The government has publicly admitted that the Saudi government funded several of the hijackers and that Israeli spies were, at a minimum, 1) Hanging around the same parts of Florida where said hijackers trained, as well as 2) Documenting the event as it took place.

    As for JFK, get the HELL out of here if you believe the official story.


    I don’t believe these ideas are taken very seriously by those who profess them, however.
     
    Bullshit!

    So why do they claim to believe it?
     
    Because the official story is full of holes!

    The simple answer is that they get a lot more social mileage out of the snazzy conspiracy theory than they would out of the plain vanilla truth.
     
    Oh, yes, I'm sure I get more social mileage by not publicly contradicting the mainstream narratives put out by the most powerful leaders in the world. Are you nuts?

    Bullshit!


    You can spin yarns all day long about the Moon landing precisely because there is nothing of quotidian importance at stake, but you aren’t going to bluff the coronavirus.
     
    Maybe you can pass off this "Moon landing" crap on some people, but it won't work on me. I know what "controlled opposition" means. Don't you dare come around here again trying to throw the Moon landing fools in with JFK and 9/11, "Intelligent" one.

    Let me ask you this too: when are we gonna find out who Stephen Paddock really was, huh? Yeah, what ever happened to that story?

    Replies: @obwandiyag

    Thank you. You are right. Intelligent is wrong. And inserting the moon landing, you are right, is a poofter move. Typical rhetorical ploy.

  38. @follyofwar
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    I'm with you on the "no one died at Sandy Hook" crack-pots, but those questioning the Moon Landing should not be dismissed so cavalierly.

    Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @Mr. Rational

    You obviously have no idea what the USA was like coming out of the 1950’s.

    It was packed to the rafters with people who did NOT grow up sucking on the glass teat all day and would have laughed themselves silly if you told them that there would be “affirmative action grading” in the near future.  People read books, actually learned math in school, and built things both mechanical and electronic.  The first home computers were built by a generation which cut its teeth on Heathkits.

    That America had people who did things like checking the math in science fiction stories and giving feedback to the authors and editors (I’ve seen this included in some of the anthologies).  The math for the rocketry part of the moon landings is pretty straightforward as such things go; anyone with a slide rule (and there were millions of them) can cross-check the delta-V requirements against the declared vehicle and fuel masses and get a solid yes/no on the possibility of the vehicle doing what NASA declared it would do.

    The answer is “yes”, BTW.  You can do this yourself a lot more easily today than anyone could in 1969.  You just have to understand the rocket equation (Δv = V(exhaust) * ln(mass_initial/mass_final)).  You can of course work that equation either way, from a Δv requirement to the resulting mass-ratio.  You have 3 distinct propellant combinations to work with (kerosene/LOX for the booster, LH2/LOX for the second and third stages, and I think N2O4/UDMH for everything else) and you have to look up the exhaust velocities for the various propellant/engine combos.  You start at the burn to leave lunar orbit for return to Earth and work backwards.

    There were at least a million Americans capable of running those numbers in 1969, and plenty more around the world.  There had to have been thousands who did so.  And NOT ONE got an answer that said “this is impossible” and blew the whistle, not even the Soviets.

    We put men on the moon in 1969.  You can bet your life on it.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Mr. Rational

    Mr. Rational, thanks for that comment. That was just part of the initial few hundred or so basic physics calculations of all sorts (mechanics, thermo, heat transfer, etc.) to show that the whole idea could be accomplished to begin with. It took those (likely) HUNDREDS of thousands of engineers around the US (98% white men would be my guess) to make all the details work. One little detail off, and you get Apollo 13 or Apollo 1.

    I'd like to add this point, which I haven't before - if you have never been up close to a Lockheed Starfighter, another "century-series" fighter, or any top-of-the-line aircraft from that era, you can't understand how amazing technology was already with hardly one lick of electronics. Fuel cost and worries about a letta from Gretta was not a thing though ...

    This was a different place, a real CAN-DO country that maybe the world will never see again. China is the new CAN-DO country, but with the corruption, sorry-assed Q/A, and still too much reliance on engineering via theft, it's not the same as 1940s through 1969 US of A.

    Replies: @Mr. Rational, @Znzn

    , @Pierre de Craon
    @Mr. Rational

    As my older brother, RIP, was one of a dozen or so guys at Hughes Aerospace who designed the engine for the Apollo 11 Command Module that Michael Collins minded whilst awaiting the return of Armstrong and Aldrin from the lunar surface, I have long had the easy choice between believing that the moon landing happened and believing that my beloved and honorable brother was a liar or a fool for being implicated in a fraud of singular proportions. Still, I am grateful to Mr. Rational for offering a helping hand to those who do not share my autobiographical good fortune in this matter.

    As for the Wuhan virus hoax—the hoax being the magnitude of the risk, not the virus's mere existence—I am saddened that only one person in seven has failed to shed the blinders. Is it truly not known that aside from China and the other polished-rice-consuming societies of East Asia, the number of places on the globe where people whose blood and tissue levels of selenium are so low as to place them at risk of suffering more than trivial flu symptoms for five to ten days borders on the statistically negligible? I had thought that most Unz and VDARE readers were wise to this fact. Live and learn.

    Replies: @aandrews, @Achmed E. Newman

    , @Calculator
    @Mr. Rational

    Mr Rational, you are out of step. Those were the good old days. We live in a new era in case you have not noticed. You are asking modern man to give up all facets of social media to learn reading, riting and ritmatic ? Look I can count to ten on my fingers and if I need another 10 I can find them hidden in my socks. My wife is also good for another 1-20. Do you know anyone who needs to go beyond that number ? However, if you disagree I want to assure you that my top score in Donkey Kong is 800,436 so why exactly do I need math ? Back in the day when we had those calculators that weighted a ton and had a big crank handle on the side my Father frustrated with the physical effort involved taught himself to add a column of numbers in his head and he was always right. He also reasoned quite correctly that it was somewhat uncomfortable to lug around a 50+ pound calculator measuring 3 feet x 2. Today this skill is considered a sort of black magic, a voodoo even witchcraft and quite rightly so. These days viruses like Corona are to blame for poor math skills, wreading and righting. Just updating you, no offence okay ?

  39. @dfordoom
    @Intelligent Dasein


    Conspiratorial thinking brings with it the frisson of contrarianism
     
    People want to believe conspiracy theories because it makes them feel special. It makes them feel that they have secret knowledge that ordinary people don't have access to. They might have unsatisfying soul-destroying jobs and their marriages may have broken up and their kids might despise them or they may not have ever managed to get girlfriends but they're special because they know that JFK was killed by LBJ and they know the moon landings were faked.

    The content of the conspiracy theories is irrelevant. They just need to believe in conspiracy theories, any conspiracy theories, so they don't feel so bad about themselves.

    They're the same sorts of people who blame all their problems on the Jews, or the evil commies, or some other group. Again these are beliefs that make them feel less bad about themselves.

    Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @Malla, @Dumbo, @obwandiyag

    Well, usually I agree with you, but here is where I part company with you and start to believe that maybe you are sort of controlled opposition from the left, saying moderate vaguely leftish kind of things in order to siphon off the potency (yeah I used that word in it’s real meaning–power) of the hard core.

    All conspiracy theories are correct. It isn’t even arguable.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @obwandiyag


    but here is where I part company with you and start to believe that maybe you are sort of controlled opposition from the left, saying moderate vaguely leftish kind of things in order to siphon off the potency (yeah I used that word in it’s real meaning–power) of the hard core.
     
    One of the more popular conspiracy theories these days is that anybody who expresses scepticism about conspiracy theories is part of a nefarious Jewish communist conspiracy to discredit conspiracy theorists. There's a variation on this, where it's the CIA inventing crazy conspiracy theories in order to discredit the real conspiracy theories.

    What a great world we live in, where we have conspiracy theories about conspiracy theories.

    Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @iffen, @another anon

  40. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Don't worry, I got it.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Oh, yeah, that worked much better for your weed joke. Sorry ’bout that.

  41. @Mr. Rational
    @follyofwar

    You obviously have no idea what the USA was like coming out of the 1950's.

    It was packed to the rafters with people who did NOT grow up sucking on the glass teat all day and would have laughed themselves silly if you told them that there would be "affirmative action grading" in the near future.  People read books, actually learned math in school, and built things both mechanical and electronic.  The first home computers were built by a generation which cut its teeth on Heathkits.

    That America had people who did things like checking the math in science fiction stories and giving feedback to the authors and editors (I've seen this included in some of the anthologies).  The math for the rocketry part of the moon landings is pretty straightforward as such things go; anyone with a slide rule (and there were millions of them) can cross-check the delta-V requirements against the declared vehicle and fuel masses and get a solid yes/no on the possibility of the vehicle doing what NASA declared it would do.

    The answer is "yes", BTW.  You can do this yourself a lot more easily today than anyone could in 1969.  You just have to understand the rocket equation (Δv = V(exhaust) * ln(mass_initial/mass_final)).  You can of course work that equation either way, from a Δv requirement to the resulting mass-ratio.  You have 3 distinct propellant combinations to work with (kerosene/LOX for the booster, LH2/LOX for the second and third stages, and I think N2O4/UDMH for everything else) and you have to look up the exhaust velocities for the various propellant/engine combos.  You start at the burn to leave lunar orbit for return to Earth and work backwards.

    There were at least a million Americans capable of running those numbers in 1969, and plenty more around the world.  There had to have been thousands who did so.  And NOT ONE got an answer that said "this is impossible" and blew the whistle, not even the Soviets.

    We put men on the moon in 1969.  You can bet your life on it.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Pierre de Craon, @Calculator

    Mr. Rational, thanks for that comment. That was just part of the initial few hundred or so basic physics calculations of all sorts (mechanics, thermo, heat transfer, etc.) to show that the whole idea could be accomplished to begin with. It took those (likely) HUNDREDS of thousands of engineers around the US (98% white men would be my guess) to make all the details work. One little detail off, and you get Apollo 13 or Apollo 1.

    I’d like to add this point, which I haven’t before – if you have never been up close to a Lockheed Starfighter, another “century-series” fighter, or any top-of-the-line aircraft from that era, you can’t understand how amazing technology was already with hardly one lick of electronics. Fuel cost and worries about a letta from Gretta was not a thing though …

    This was a different place, a real CAN-DO country that maybe the world will never see again. China is the new CAN-DO country, but with the corruption, sorry-assed Q/A, and still too much reliance on engineering via theft, it’s not the same as 1940s through 1969 US of A.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Look at the period pictures of the control rooms.  It was probably 99.5% White men outside the clerical and janitorial staffs.

    NASA didn't usually bet a manned mission on an un-tested design, and they did lots of tests.  There are still Apollo-era test stands outside Huntsville used for things like testing the gas generators for the F1 engine turbopumps.  There was an all-up unmanned launch of a Saturn V which revealed some construction flaws (that's the one which carried the cameras which showed all the neat stuff like the interstage falling away and being hit by the engine exhaust), and I recall an issue with failure of the bellows for the pilot-flame system for the J-2 engine re-ignition which was only revealed when the ship was in vacuum.

    All the moonwalk stuff was practiced endlessly in vacuum chambers, and spacewalks in swimming pools (which still are).

    One thing I didn't know until just recently is that the Apollo onboard computers were built out of RTL logic, all 3-input NOR gates, 2 to a 10-pin package, connected via wire-wrap (not even PC boards).  It's amazing what they accomplished with such primitive hardware.  I cut my teeth on Z80s and 6502's, which were vastly more advanced.

    , @Znzn
    @Achmed E. Newman

    F-4 > F-104

  42. @Achmed E. Newman
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    My wording didn't make it clear, John, but no, I was referring to Joni Mitchell - Big Yellow Taxi - an otherwise great song tune- and lyric-wise.

    Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @obwandiyag

    I can’t believe you DDT-supporters.

    When I was a kid, there were no hawks or herons flying above my parents ex-urban home. Now there are, and its not even all that ex- anymore. DDT, for your information, kills a lot more than mosquitoes, you stupid wanker.

    And what do you mean “all the mosquitoes”? What mosquitoes?

    Past couple summers, where there used to be a cloud of them, there have been no bugs around my porchlight. Even if I leave it on for a long time.

    Maybe you’re not old enough. But I am old enough to remember hosing off windshields and grilles. Those praying mantis splats were particularly tenacious. No more. No more at-tall.

    Don’t tell me you got bugs. I won’t believe you.

    Sometimes environmentalists are just plain right.

    Hey, Farmer, put away the neonicotinoids now.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @obwandiyag

    There've been plenty of birds of prey around, my whole life, though lots of animals have increased their populations due to our country decreasing pollution drastically. The theory that the DDT affected eggshell thickness in birds of prey has something to it, I guess, but you've got to apply wisely and make tradeoffs.

    In the neighborhood long ago, they'd spray a formula that must have it, as it you wouldn't see many. Nothing else works like it. The mosquitoes will swarm you now, at the right time of day. Use of DDT was resumed in parts of Africa, just indoors, to fight malaria, which kills millions.

    Your bug story is just plain stupid. There are loads of bugs, and there always will be. Do you think all those herons and hawks eat em all near your house?

    There are good years and bad years for the bigger bugs like grasshoppers and locusts. One time, not too long ago, driving across the country through S. Dakota at night, I was hitting so many bugs that I couldn't keep the windshield clean for a 10 mile stretch. I had to get the gas station to wipe them all off and fill up the washer fluid.

    Hey, Obwandiyag, Obwandiyag, put away that high-strength weed, now ...

    Replies: @obwandiyag

    , @Homeschooling Mom in NY
    @obwandiyag

    I agree with you for once. I’ve noticed the bug population declining. I chalked it up to the bats in my area, but it’s interesting to see it’s not just me.

    Check out the link between DDT and polio:
    https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/environmental-toxins/pesticides-and-polio-a-critique-of-scientific-literature/

    (Authoritative sources well documented in the footnotes.)

    Replies: @obwandiyag

  43. @Charles Pewitt
    Globalization Is Greed And Treason.

    Financialization Is Greed And Treason.

    Transnationalism Is Greed And Treason.

    Globalism Is Greed And Treason.

    Neoliberalism Is Greed And Treason.

    The American Empire Is Greed And Treason.

    https://twitter.com/DVATW/status/1238073137813749762?s=20

    Tweets from 2014 and 2015:

    https://twitter.com/CharlesPewitt/status/651109073694404608?s=20

    https://twitter.com/CharlesPewitt/status/544868708322390017?s=20

    Replies: @Talha

    Speaking of Italy…I guess there is always time for extra degeneracy even as the world falls apart around you:
    https://twitter.com/marlo_safi/status/1238171313874894850

    Reason #782 why Chris Hedges was right in his assessment:
    ‘Pornography Is What the End of the World Looks Like’
    https://www.truthdig.com/articles/pornography-is-what-the-end-of-the-world-looks-like/

    Peace.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @Talha

    There's a satirical belief that extra self-abuse could help fight Corona-chan:

    https://twitter.com/kukuruyo/status/1237786820202704898

    Replies: @Calculator

    , @songbird
    @Talha

    There was a rumor that China unblocked porn torrents in the outbreak region to try to get people to stay home.

    I was thinking about the opposite idea - since they have kind of a captive audience maybe they could use the magic of propaganda to turn it into a baby boom somehow. Either direct messaging to couples, or coming up with some elaborate socialization scheme, when the quarantine is over, for those who are unmarried.

    Replies: @Talha

  44. It would be interesting to see how “% of population that thinks Covidian 19 is a hoax” with ethnic diversity. Obviously in East Asian countries every one pretty much follows the government line. In vibrant France there seems to be a lot of skepticism both on the right and the left. Same in the UK.

    • Replies: @Calculator
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Take your calculator and from 100 subtract .00005. The answer is the % number of people who believe the whole thing is a hoax.

  45. It’s not a hoax. Stay away from crowds. We don’t have mass testing in the U.S. The only thing that’s going to lessen the severity of the pandemic is social distancing and self-imposed isolation, and lower the rate of new infections. The rest is noise.

  46. @obwandiyag
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I can't believe you DDT-supporters.

    When I was a kid, there were no hawks or herons flying above my parents ex-urban home. Now there are, and its not even all that ex- anymore. DDT, for your information, kills a lot more than mosquitoes, you stupid wanker.

    And what do you mean "all the mosquitoes"? What mosquitoes?

    Past couple summers, where there used to be a cloud of them, there have been no bugs around my porchlight. Even if I leave it on for a long time.

    Maybe you're not old enough. But I am old enough to remember hosing off windshields and grilles. Those praying mantis splats were particularly tenacious. No more. No more at-tall.

    Don't tell me you got bugs. I won't believe you.

    Sometimes environmentalists are just plain right.

    Hey, Farmer, put away the neonicotinoids now.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Homeschooling Mom in NY

    There’ve been plenty of birds of prey around, my whole life, though lots of animals have increased their populations due to our country decreasing pollution drastically. The theory that the DDT affected eggshell thickness in birds of prey has something to it, I guess, but you’ve got to apply wisely and make tradeoffs.

    In the neighborhood long ago, they’d spray a formula that must have it, as it you wouldn’t see many. Nothing else works like it. The mosquitoes will swarm you now, at the right time of day. Use of DDT was resumed in parts of Africa, just indoors, to fight malaria, which kills millions.

    Your bug story is just plain stupid. There are loads of bugs, and there always will be. Do you think all those herons and hawks eat em all near your house?

    There are good years and bad years for the bigger bugs like grasshoppers and locusts. One time, not too long ago, driving across the country through S. Dakota at night, I was hitting so many bugs that I couldn’t keep the windshield clean for a 10 mile stretch. I had to get the gas station to wipe them all off and fill up the washer fluid.

    Hey, Obwandiyag, Obwandiyag, put away that high-strength weed, now …

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
    @Achmed E. Newman

    There are not loads of bugs. Everybody knows this.

    There weren't hawks and herons. Nobody remembers that.

    You are just very unobservant.

    Of course DDT accumulates in the bodies of apex predators. This is not even arguable.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  47. I doubt there are large swaths of South Korea where an ambulance cannot safely go.

    There is no such area in South Korea. Americans who are used to black or Hispanic ghettos being dangerous no-go zones and ganglands are often shocked when they visit South Korea or Japan and find out that urban areas are completely safe. You can leave your iPhones and laptops on tables at coffee shops in the most densely populated urban areas and leave for an hour, and they will be there when you return. Lone women can get drunk at night and walk through dark alleys and not fear being raped or assaulted (and if police officers see such women, they usually escort them to their homes). This is just mindboggling for Westerners, even those from countries such as Sweden.

    There are, of course, less affluent areas in Japan and South Korea, but they are simply rundown in appearance and may have a bit more petty crime, but are not more dangerous.

    As for emergency vehicles…

    The Koreans appear to have a handle on the outbreak.

    Koreans have a much more extensive medical system than we do in the U.S. (they have something like 12 hospital beds per 100,000; only Japan has more at around 13 per 100,000 while we have under 3 per 100,000, slightly under Italy’s rate). They recently introduced a 5G emergency response/comm system with direct video feed from EMTs to doctors at the hospitals.

    They also “panicked” early in the pandemic and engaged in free, mass testing. They also mobilized the military and conducted mass disinfections. And Koreans, by and large, abided by the social distancing protocols. That’s why their mortality rate is a small fraction of Italy’s, despite being close to China and having massive traffic/trade with the latter.

    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
  48. @Mr. Rational
    @follyofwar

    You obviously have no idea what the USA was like coming out of the 1950's.

    It was packed to the rafters with people who did NOT grow up sucking on the glass teat all day and would have laughed themselves silly if you told them that there would be "affirmative action grading" in the near future.  People read books, actually learned math in school, and built things both mechanical and electronic.  The first home computers were built by a generation which cut its teeth on Heathkits.

    That America had people who did things like checking the math in science fiction stories and giving feedback to the authors and editors (I've seen this included in some of the anthologies).  The math for the rocketry part of the moon landings is pretty straightforward as such things go; anyone with a slide rule (and there were millions of them) can cross-check the delta-V requirements against the declared vehicle and fuel masses and get a solid yes/no on the possibility of the vehicle doing what NASA declared it would do.

    The answer is "yes", BTW.  You can do this yourself a lot more easily today than anyone could in 1969.  You just have to understand the rocket equation (Δv = V(exhaust) * ln(mass_initial/mass_final)).  You can of course work that equation either way, from a Δv requirement to the resulting mass-ratio.  You have 3 distinct propellant combinations to work with (kerosene/LOX for the booster, LH2/LOX for the second and third stages, and I think N2O4/UDMH for everything else) and you have to look up the exhaust velocities for the various propellant/engine combos.  You start at the burn to leave lunar orbit for return to Earth and work backwards.

    There were at least a million Americans capable of running those numbers in 1969, and plenty more around the world.  There had to have been thousands who did so.  And NOT ONE got an answer that said "this is impossible" and blew the whistle, not even the Soviets.

    We put men on the moon in 1969.  You can bet your life on it.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Pierre de Craon, @Calculator

    As my older brother, RIP, was one of a dozen or so guys at Hughes Aerospace who designed the engine for the Apollo 11 Command Module that Michael Collins minded whilst awaiting the return of Armstrong and Aldrin from the lunar surface, I have long had the easy choice between believing that the moon landing happened and believing that my beloved and honorable brother was a liar or a fool for being implicated in a fraud of singular proportions. Still, I am grateful to Mr. Rational for offering a helping hand to those who do not share my autobiographical good fortune in this matter.

    As for the Wuhan virus hoax—the hoax being the magnitude of the risk, not the virus’s mere existence—I am saddened that only one person in seven has failed to shed the blinders. Is it truly not known that aside from China and the other polished-rice-consuming societies of East Asia, the number of places on the globe where people whose blood and tissue levels of selenium are so low as to place them at risk of suffering more than trivial flu symptoms for five to ten days borders on the statistically negligible? I had thought that most Unz and VDARE readers were wise to this fact. Live and learn.

    • Replies: @aandrews
    @Pierre de Craon

    I keep vacillating between "this isn't that big a deal, really" and "this could be damned serious". VDare (I think it was) had an article up suggesting that Asians had a genetic predisposition to this virus due to a cell surface membrane topology that allowed the virus to bind to the cell (and penetrate it) more aggressively. Implication was that European-descended people were much less susceptible. THEN I watch a portion of a Joe Rogan interview with Michael Osterholm which kinda sways me back to "this could be really serious". THEN I read something somewhere that states that, like, 80% of those infected here will shrug this thing off after being under the weather a bit. Soooo, I'm just going to what I've done: buy a two-pack of 1000 mg Vitamin C tablets and take two a day and call it sufficient. I never get sick anyway. (I am considering finagling a prescription for injectable ascorbic acid and go full-Linus Pauling with large subcutaneous injections. I'm gonna have to think about that, though.)

    Replies: @Pierre de Craon

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Pierre de Craon

    Regarding your 1st paragraph, that's just it - there were 100's of thousands, in my estimate, just of engineers and technicians alone, involved! That means lots of us know someone who worked on the program or whose parents did. You can't hide some stupid conspiracy theory like this one from the millions that know these people who worked on it, many for a number of years. I had a relative who worked at Grumman on the Lunar Module.

  49. @obwandiyag
    @dfordoom

    Well, usually I agree with you, but here is where I part company with you and start to believe that maybe you are sort of controlled opposition from the left, saying moderate vaguely leftish kind of things in order to siphon off the potency (yeah I used that word in it's real meaning--power) of the hard core.

    All conspiracy theories are correct. It isn't even arguable.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    but here is where I part company with you and start to believe that maybe you are sort of controlled opposition from the left, saying moderate vaguely leftish kind of things in order to siphon off the potency (yeah I used that word in it’s real meaning–power) of the hard core.

    One of the more popular conspiracy theories these days is that anybody who expresses scepticism about conspiracy theories is part of a nefarious Jewish communist conspiracy to discredit conspiracy theorists. There’s a variation on this, where it’s the CIA inventing crazy conspiracy theories in order to discredit the real conspiracy theories.

    What a great world we live in, where we have conspiracy theories about conspiracy theories.

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    @dfordoom

    Nice "rebuttal," goofball.

    , @iffen
    @dfordoom

    where we have conspiracy theories about conspiracy theories.

    We knew that's what you were going to say.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    , @another anon
    @dfordoom


    where we have conspiracy theories about conspiracy theories.
     
    If you do not know who to trust, trust only mysterious anonymous sources on the internets.
    Always.

    Follow the white rabbit.

    Trust the plan.

    WWG1WGA MAGA KAG Q

    https://twitter.com/Education4Libs/status/1238204524059398145

    Replies: @obwandiyag

  50. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Mr. Rational

    Mr. Rational, thanks for that comment. That was just part of the initial few hundred or so basic physics calculations of all sorts (mechanics, thermo, heat transfer, etc.) to show that the whole idea could be accomplished to begin with. It took those (likely) HUNDREDS of thousands of engineers around the US (98% white men would be my guess) to make all the details work. One little detail off, and you get Apollo 13 or Apollo 1.

    I'd like to add this point, which I haven't before - if you have never been up close to a Lockheed Starfighter, another "century-series" fighter, or any top-of-the-line aircraft from that era, you can't understand how amazing technology was already with hardly one lick of electronics. Fuel cost and worries about a letta from Gretta was not a thing though ...

    This was a different place, a real CAN-DO country that maybe the world will never see again. China is the new CAN-DO country, but with the corruption, sorry-assed Q/A, and still too much reliance on engineering via theft, it's not the same as 1940s through 1969 US of A.

    Replies: @Mr. Rational, @Znzn

    Look at the period pictures of the control rooms.  It was probably 99.5% White men outside the clerical and janitorial staffs.

    NASA didn’t usually bet a manned mission on an un-tested design, and they did lots of tests.  There are still Apollo-era test stands outside Huntsville used for things like testing the gas generators for the F1 engine turbopumps.  There was an all-up unmanned launch of a Saturn V which revealed some construction flaws (that’s the one which carried the cameras which showed all the neat stuff like the interstage falling away and being hit by the engine exhaust), and I recall an issue with failure of the bellows for the pilot-flame system for the J-2 engine re-ignition which was only revealed when the ship was in vacuum.

    All the moonwalk stuff was practiced endlessly in vacuum chambers, and spacewalks in swimming pools (which still are).

    One thing I didn’t know until just recently is that the Apollo onboard computers were built out of RTL logic, all 3-input NOR gates, 2 to a 10-pin package, connected via wire-wrap (not even PC boards).  It’s amazing what they accomplished with such primitive hardware.  I cut my teeth on Z80s and 6502’s, which were vastly more advanced.

  51. @anon
    @JimDandy


    Exactly! That’s just crazy talk. Everyone with a brain knows Israel did 9/11.
     
    Well, there is the credible allegation that the Israelis were aware of the plot in progress and did nothing about it. They were tailing one of the guys involved. They had to have known, "how could they have not? That's almost a direct quote." I would not put it past them considering their nefarious reputation. Over Syria, they are using passenger airliners as shields to attack that country. They've made it clear they have no regard for human life that's not their own. That's true irrespective of what their many sycophantic defenders here at Unz say.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh04uu1EkIU

    Replies: @JimDandy

    Yes, I’m aware. Israel–at the very least–knew what was going to happen well before it happened.

    At the very least.

  52. “The government has publicly admitted that the Saudi government funded several of the hijackers and that Israeli spies were, at a minimum, 1) Hanging around the same parts of Florida where said hijackers trained, as well as 2) Documenting the event as it took place.”

    Whoooaaaaa and whoa!

    No. The government as Muslim Mosques and governments do, fund charities. I have little doubt that they have any better handle on what goes among the many charities that exist than we do in the US. We did not know that the funding of schools in Kibbutz’s was really a gun running operation —

    The Saudi government and others have dozens if not hundreds of charity programs as do we. And while they should know what is going on in them, I doubt they are peeping over shoulders anymore than we were the Clinton Foundation. The funding was not as a funnel for acts of terror. Perhaps via the rumor mill late in the game.

    Charity inspecter: “What with this flight school spending?
    Attendent Muslim: Oh some of our guys are engineers and thought it would be great to ;earn to fl;y airliners . . .

    Inspector: Way cool (or whatever the phrase in the language they use.
    ————————————-

    These men were connected to Osama Bin Laden, it is known that Osama Bin laden and his family did things together — imagine that Muslims hanging out together — wait — educated well connected Muslims . . . maybe even some who work for the government, hanging out with Muslims who unbeknownst to them are learning to fly one way.

    Now I have never even heard this before Members of the Saudi government documenting attacks on the US. Interesting.

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    @EliteCommInc.


    Now I have never even heard this before Members of the Saudi government documenting attacks on the US. Interesting.
     
    Members of the Saudi government were not seen documenting the attacks. I didn't say that. Members of Mossad were seen documenting the attacks.
  53. The Coronavirus® hoax is real. No rational person reading across the available spectrum of “news” and opinion could plausibly deny that the hoax is real, and effective. The hoax is getting people to do things they would not otherwise do, and NOT do things they would like to do. The hoax is very effective at convincing people (say, the parents of students in schools closed due to the danger of Coronavirus® which (reportedly) has not killed a kid yet) to act in ways contrary to their best interests, and of no obvious altruistic benefit to anyone else.

    The people most encouraging all this idiotic hoax reaction are public person types that will not miss a paycheck or have to dramatically degrade their lifestyle to “social distance” or “self quarantine” or “avoid crowds” due to a virus threat no more dangerous than is faced during every flu season, and much less than in some flu seasons. So yes, the Coronavirus® Hoax is real. The Hoax will kill a lot more (perhaps billions, if the Hoax perps are right) people than Coronvirus® will, and without a war, bombed out cities, conquerors, vanquished etc. No, the Hoaxers do not give a damn about sh#%hole places like Yemen and Syria where the wars just roll on. There is nothing in those places that the Hoaxers want to steal.

    Last is that it is possible to avoid exposure to viral infections, for the most part. Avoiding the Hoax is impossible. It causes symptoms in people it does not infect. Next time, they won’t even bother putting an actual new (or recycled) virus out there, they will just implement the Hoax, and it will be just as effective.

  54. @Charles Pewitt

    There is a stark generational divide as well.

     

    A political leader is going to have to come forward and call for the complete and total financial liquidation of all US citizens born before 1965 and all foreigners of any age. Joe Biden and his GREEDY WHITE GEEZER STRATEGY and his AUNT JEMIMA STRATEGY have been kicking Bernie Sander's ass all over the USA and he won't stop, daddy-O. Got that, Jack. CORNPOP all day babycakes! You want to step outside? I'll knock you on your ass. Your full of shit! I must admit to loving Biden's tough guy talk. It's very funny and charming. AR-14? Does anybody bid for an AR-15? You do? Come on man, how about an AR-17.5? Barack is clean and he talks good! I mean it, Jack! Hey! I ain't talking like this to you Mr. AE, know what I mean, jellybean?

    Then you call for Sovereign Debt Secessionism and mass private debt extinguishment and the arrest and conviction and forcible exile of all bankers. Sound extreme? So be it, the bankers need to be dealt with harshly.

    A surfeit of conspiracy theories is an inevitable consequence of the ongoing collapse of trust in virtually every major institution in the Western world. As social cohesion continues to break down in the face of increased linguistic, cultural, racial, economic, social, and racial diversity, coordinated responses to crises like this will become increasingly difficult to manage.

     

    For well over 50 years, the globalizers and bankers and treasonites and the various ruling classes of the European Christian nation states have been using mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration as demographic weapons to attack and destroy cultural cohesion in their respective nations. Trump and Biden are two evil and immoral politician whores who push mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration.

    I doubt there are large swaths of South Korea where an ambulance cannot safely go. The Koreans appear to have a handle on the outbreak. Will America be able to manage the same?

     

    Multicultural mayhem is part of the plan by the globalizers and the bankers and the ruling class of the American Empire to destroy the historic American nation and to demographically flood out the European Christian ancestral core of the USA. Those of you who claim there is a British Protestant ancestral core of the USA are correct in doing so, but I am only partially British Protestant myself and European Christian brings in all the German Americans in the USA and German Americans must be appealed to directly in future politics in the USA.

    A currency crisis and Civil War II are baked into the cake for the American Empire, and smart people will take that as a base line scenario -- to steal a term -- for how to strategize and think about politics for the next few years and the next few decades and into the extended future.

    Replies: @Brian Reilly

    Charles, Nice rant. I am with yu on much of that, but… there will be no civil war of the sort you imply. The currency collapse is in full swing, and the Coronavirus® Hoax may be the end of the U$Dollar, but there is not going to be any sort of a shooting war in the US. TOo late for that, there just is not enough belly for it.

    There will be some dangerous precincts, and people disappearing, but no mass movements or armed forces deployment in CONUS.

  55. @Talha
    @Charles Pewitt

    Speaking of Italy...I guess there is always time for extra degeneracy even as the world falls apart around you:
    https://twitter.com/marlo_safi/status/1238171313874894850

    Reason #782 why Chris Hedges was right in his assessment:
    'Pornography Is What the End of the World Looks Like'
    https://www.truthdig.com/articles/pornography-is-what-the-end-of-the-world-looks-like/

    Peace.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @songbird

    There’s a satirical belief that extra self-abuse could help fight Corona-chan:

    • Replies: @Calculator
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    Actually there was a study done that proves beating the chicken gives a dude a sort of Superman boost to the immune system. I heard this on the radio so it must be true. I always thought the opposite was the case but what do I know I am not a doctor. Besides I have not interviewed or tested or observed a bunch of test patients who knock it off every opportunity they get. I am happy that this secret technique has been revealed and it explains why everyone is stocking up on toilet paper and tissues. When the next virus comes around this is an antidote well worth remembering even if the toilet paper manufacturers are the only ones to profit from the hullabaloo.

  56. @Matra
    I was unaware that there were many people who think this way until I looked at the comments - likely white, middle aged Trump supporters - below today's Scott Adams video on YouTube: Accusations that he's buying into Democrat fake news for being concerned and generally childish mockery of anyone who is even taking coronavirus seriously. I suppose the lying media are to a large extent responsible for creating such an atmosphere but it's still disappointing to see such a lack of discernment from people on the Right. It reminds of how they behaved post 9/11.

    Replies: @aandrews

    “Scott Adams video on YouTube”

    link

  57. @Talha
    @Charles Pewitt

    Speaking of Italy...I guess there is always time for extra degeneracy even as the world falls apart around you:
    https://twitter.com/marlo_safi/status/1238171313874894850

    Reason #782 why Chris Hedges was right in his assessment:
    'Pornography Is What the End of the World Looks Like'
    https://www.truthdig.com/articles/pornography-is-what-the-end-of-the-world-looks-like/

    Peace.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @songbird

    There was a rumor that China unblocked porn torrents in the outbreak region to try to get people to stay home.

    I was thinking about the opposite idea – since they have kind of a captive audience maybe they could use the magic of propaganda to turn it into a baby boom somehow. Either direct messaging to couples, or coming up with some elaborate socialization scheme, when the quarantine is over, for those who are unmarried.

    • Replies: @Talha
    @songbird

    Interesting proposal. 🤔

    Peace.

  58. @songbird
    @Talha

    There was a rumor that China unblocked porn torrents in the outbreak region to try to get people to stay home.

    I was thinking about the opposite idea - since they have kind of a captive audience maybe they could use the magic of propaganda to turn it into a baby boom somehow. Either direct messaging to couples, or coming up with some elaborate socialization scheme, when the quarantine is over, for those who are unmarried.

    Replies: @Talha

    Interesting proposal. 🤔

    Peace.

  59. @Pierre de Craon
    @Mr. Rational

    As my older brother, RIP, was one of a dozen or so guys at Hughes Aerospace who designed the engine for the Apollo 11 Command Module that Michael Collins minded whilst awaiting the return of Armstrong and Aldrin from the lunar surface, I have long had the easy choice between believing that the moon landing happened and believing that my beloved and honorable brother was a liar or a fool for being implicated in a fraud of singular proportions. Still, I am grateful to Mr. Rational for offering a helping hand to those who do not share my autobiographical good fortune in this matter.

    As for the Wuhan virus hoax—the hoax being the magnitude of the risk, not the virus's mere existence—I am saddened that only one person in seven has failed to shed the blinders. Is it truly not known that aside from China and the other polished-rice-consuming societies of East Asia, the number of places on the globe where people whose blood and tissue levels of selenium are so low as to place them at risk of suffering more than trivial flu symptoms for five to ten days borders on the statistically negligible? I had thought that most Unz and VDARE readers were wise to this fact. Live and learn.

    Replies: @aandrews, @Achmed E. Newman

    I keep vacillating between “this isn’t that big a deal, really” and “this could be damned serious”. VDare (I think it was) had an article up suggesting that Asians had a genetic predisposition to this virus due to a cell surface membrane topology that allowed the virus to bind to the cell (and penetrate it) more aggressively. Implication was that European-descended people were much less susceptible. THEN I watch a portion of a Joe Rogan interview with Michael Osterholm which kinda sways me back to “this could be really serious”. THEN I read something somewhere that states that, like, 80% of those infected here will shrug this thing off after being under the weather a bit. Soooo, I’m just going to what I’ve done: buy a two-pack of 1000 mg Vitamin C tablets and take two a day and call it sufficient. I never get sick anyway. (I am considering finagling a prescription for injectable ascorbic acid and go full-Linus Pauling with large subcutaneous injections. I’m gonna have to think about that, though.)

    • Replies: @Pierre de Craon
    @aandrews

    For the most part, your plan seems very sensible. But I think you should consider buying ester-C (capsules or powder, not tabs) as opposed to standard ascorbic acid, as the esterized form is far, far better assimilated (i.e., not largely destroyed by stomach acid or peed away). Although you'll be paying more for ester-C than ascorbic acid, the saving compared with a vitamin C drip or injection is substantial, and ester-C taken by mouth is almost as good as a drip in terms of percentage absorbed at a small fraction of the drip's cost. A daily dose of 2 or 3 grams should suffice to protect you from the sort of oxidizing infection exemplified by the current media star.

    In addition, I take a daily dose of 200 mcg of selenium with 800 IU of mixed tocopherol vitamin E (natural sources) with or after a meal (i.e., not on an empty stomach). I suggest you do the same, as a low selenium level has been characteristic of those who've died from the virus. Selenium is optimally absorbed in the presence of vitamin E, and vice versa.

    For the record, I'm in my mid-seventies and not at all worried about contracting the virus.

  60. @Achmed E. Newman
    @obwandiyag

    There've been plenty of birds of prey around, my whole life, though lots of animals have increased their populations due to our country decreasing pollution drastically. The theory that the DDT affected eggshell thickness in birds of prey has something to it, I guess, but you've got to apply wisely and make tradeoffs.

    In the neighborhood long ago, they'd spray a formula that must have it, as it you wouldn't see many. Nothing else works like it. The mosquitoes will swarm you now, at the right time of day. Use of DDT was resumed in parts of Africa, just indoors, to fight malaria, which kills millions.

    Your bug story is just plain stupid. There are loads of bugs, and there always will be. Do you think all those herons and hawks eat em all near your house?

    There are good years and bad years for the bigger bugs like grasshoppers and locusts. One time, not too long ago, driving across the country through S. Dakota at night, I was hitting so many bugs that I couldn't keep the windshield clean for a 10 mile stretch. I had to get the gas station to wipe them all off and fill up the washer fluid.

    Hey, Obwandiyag, Obwandiyag, put away that high-strength weed, now ...

    Replies: @obwandiyag

    There are not loads of bugs. Everybody knows this.

    There weren’t hawks and herons. Nobody remembers that.

    You are just very unobservant.

    Of course DDT accumulates in the bodies of apex predators. This is not even arguable.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @obwandiyag


    There are not loads of bugs.
     
    Well, don't you keep a squeaky-clean house! Do you go outside much? Maybe you live in Southern California - no matter what else about that state, I gotta say, the lack of the worst pests - mosquitoes, fleas, and ticks, was nice. That's what you get out in the desert, but there are other pestilences.

    There were no herons and hawks? Over your house? Do you understand that there's a bigger picture than just over the top of your house?
  61. @obwandiyag
    @Achmed E. Newman

    There are not loads of bugs. Everybody knows this.

    There weren't hawks and herons. Nobody remembers that.

    You are just very unobservant.

    Of course DDT accumulates in the bodies of apex predators. This is not even arguable.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    There are not loads of bugs.

    Well, don’t you keep a squeaky-clean house! Do you go outside much? Maybe you live in Southern California – no matter what else about that state, I gotta say, the lack of the worst pests – mosquitoes, fleas, and ticks, was nice. That’s what you get out in the desert, but there are other pestilences.

    There were no herons and hawks? Over your house? Do you understand that there’s a bigger picture than just over the top of your house?

  62. @Pierre de Craon
    @Mr. Rational

    As my older brother, RIP, was one of a dozen or so guys at Hughes Aerospace who designed the engine for the Apollo 11 Command Module that Michael Collins minded whilst awaiting the return of Armstrong and Aldrin from the lunar surface, I have long had the easy choice between believing that the moon landing happened and believing that my beloved and honorable brother was a liar or a fool for being implicated in a fraud of singular proportions. Still, I am grateful to Mr. Rational for offering a helping hand to those who do not share my autobiographical good fortune in this matter.

    As for the Wuhan virus hoax—the hoax being the magnitude of the risk, not the virus's mere existence—I am saddened that only one person in seven has failed to shed the blinders. Is it truly not known that aside from China and the other polished-rice-consuming societies of East Asia, the number of places on the globe where people whose blood and tissue levels of selenium are so low as to place them at risk of suffering more than trivial flu symptoms for five to ten days borders on the statistically negligible? I had thought that most Unz and VDARE readers were wise to this fact. Live and learn.

    Replies: @aandrews, @Achmed E. Newman

    Regarding your 1st paragraph, that’s just it – there were 100’s of thousands, in my estimate, just of engineers and technicians alone, involved! That means lots of us know someone who worked on the program or whose parents did. You can’t hide some stupid conspiracy theory like this one from the millions that know these people who worked on it, many for a number of years. I had a relative who worked at Grumman on the Lunar Module.

  63. @dfordoom
    @obwandiyag


    but here is where I part company with you and start to believe that maybe you are sort of controlled opposition from the left, saying moderate vaguely leftish kind of things in order to siphon off the potency (yeah I used that word in it’s real meaning–power) of the hard core.
     
    One of the more popular conspiracy theories these days is that anybody who expresses scepticism about conspiracy theories is part of a nefarious Jewish communist conspiracy to discredit conspiracy theorists. There's a variation on this, where it's the CIA inventing crazy conspiracy theories in order to discredit the real conspiracy theories.

    What a great world we live in, where we have conspiracy theories about conspiracy theories.

    Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @iffen, @another anon

    Nice “rebuttal,” goofball.

  64. @EliteCommInc.
    "The government has publicly admitted that the Saudi government funded several of the hijackers and that Israeli spies were, at a minimum, 1) Hanging around the same parts of Florida where said hijackers trained, as well as 2) Documenting the event as it took place."


    Whoooaaaaa and whoa!


    No. The government as Muslim Mosques and governments do, fund charities. I have little doubt that they have any better handle on what goes among the many charities that exist than we do in the US. We did not know that the funding of schools in Kibbutz's was really a gun running operation ---

    The Saudi government and others have dozens if not hundreds of charity programs as do we. And while they should know what is going on in them, I doubt they are peeping over shoulders anymore than we were the Clinton Foundation. The funding was not as a funnel for acts of terror. Perhaps via the rumor mill late in the game.


    Charity inspecter: "What with this flight school spending?
    Attendent Muslim: Oh some of our guys are engineers and thought it would be great to ;earn to fl;y airliners . . .

    Inspector: Way cool (or whatever the phrase in the language they use.
    -------------------------------------


    These men were connected to Osama Bin Laden, it is known that Osama Bin laden and his family did things together --- imagine that Muslims hanging out together -- wait -- educated well connected Muslims . . . maybe even some who work for the government, hanging out with Muslims who unbeknownst to them are learning to fly one way.


    Now I have never even heard this before Members of the Saudi government documenting attacks on the US. Interesting.

    Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Now I have never even heard this before Members of the Saudi government documenting attacks on the US. Interesting.

    Members of the Saudi government were not seen documenting the attacks. I didn’t say that. Members of Mossad were seen documenting the attacks.

  65. @dfordoom
    @obwandiyag


    but here is where I part company with you and start to believe that maybe you are sort of controlled opposition from the left, saying moderate vaguely leftish kind of things in order to siphon off the potency (yeah I used that word in it’s real meaning–power) of the hard core.
     
    One of the more popular conspiracy theories these days is that anybody who expresses scepticism about conspiracy theories is part of a nefarious Jewish communist conspiracy to discredit conspiracy theorists. There's a variation on this, where it's the CIA inventing crazy conspiracy theories in order to discredit the real conspiracy theories.

    What a great world we live in, where we have conspiracy theories about conspiracy theories.

    Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @iffen, @another anon

    where we have conspiracy theories about conspiracy theories.

    We knew that’s what you were going to say.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @iffen



    where we have conspiracy theories about conspiracy theories.
     
    We knew that’s what you were going to say.
     
    I already know you're all involved in a conspiracy against me. I have enemies everywhere. Even my cat hates me. He's in it as well. I'm just not sure if he's CIA or Mossad. I don't think he's a commie but you can't be sure with cats.

    Replies: @obwandiyag, @Mr. Rational

  66. @The Wild Geese Howard
    @Talha

    There's a satirical belief that extra self-abuse could help fight Corona-chan:

    https://twitter.com/kukuruyo/status/1237786820202704898

    Replies: @Calculator

    Actually there was a study done that proves beating the chicken gives a dude a sort of Superman boost to the immune system. I heard this on the radio so it must be true. I always thought the opposite was the case but what do I know I am not a doctor. Besides I have not interviewed or tested or observed a bunch of test patients who knock it off every opportunity they get. I am happy that this secret technique has been revealed and it explains why everyone is stocking up on toilet paper and tissues. When the next virus comes around this is an antidote well worth remembering even if the toilet paper manufacturers are the only ones to profit from the hullabaloo.

  67. @Mr. Rational
    @follyofwar

    You obviously have no idea what the USA was like coming out of the 1950's.

    It was packed to the rafters with people who did NOT grow up sucking on the glass teat all day and would have laughed themselves silly if you told them that there would be "affirmative action grading" in the near future.  People read books, actually learned math in school, and built things both mechanical and electronic.  The first home computers were built by a generation which cut its teeth on Heathkits.

    That America had people who did things like checking the math in science fiction stories and giving feedback to the authors and editors (I've seen this included in some of the anthologies).  The math for the rocketry part of the moon landings is pretty straightforward as such things go; anyone with a slide rule (and there were millions of them) can cross-check the delta-V requirements against the declared vehicle and fuel masses and get a solid yes/no on the possibility of the vehicle doing what NASA declared it would do.

    The answer is "yes", BTW.  You can do this yourself a lot more easily today than anyone could in 1969.  You just have to understand the rocket equation (Δv = V(exhaust) * ln(mass_initial/mass_final)).  You can of course work that equation either way, from a Δv requirement to the resulting mass-ratio.  You have 3 distinct propellant combinations to work with (kerosene/LOX for the booster, LH2/LOX for the second and third stages, and I think N2O4/UDMH for everything else) and you have to look up the exhaust velocities for the various propellant/engine combos.  You start at the burn to leave lunar orbit for return to Earth and work backwards.

    There were at least a million Americans capable of running those numbers in 1969, and plenty more around the world.  There had to have been thousands who did so.  And NOT ONE got an answer that said "this is impossible" and blew the whistle, not even the Soviets.

    We put men on the moon in 1969.  You can bet your life on it.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Pierre de Craon, @Calculator

    Mr Rational, you are out of step. Those were the good old days. We live in a new era in case you have not noticed. You are asking modern man to give up all facets of social media to learn reading, riting and ritmatic ? Look I can count to ten on my fingers and if I need another 10 I can find them hidden in my socks. My wife is also good for another 1-20. Do you know anyone who needs to go beyond that number ? However, if you disagree I want to assure you that my top score in Donkey Kong is 800,436 so why exactly do I need math ? Back in the day when we had those calculators that weighted a ton and had a big crank handle on the side my Father frustrated with the physical effort involved taught himself to add a column of numbers in his head and he was always right. He also reasoned quite correctly that it was somewhat uncomfortable to lug around a 50+ pound calculator measuring 3 feet x 2. Today this skill is considered a sort of black magic, a voodoo even witchcraft and quite rightly so. These days viruses like Corona are to blame for poor math skills, wreading and righting. Just updating you, no offence okay ?

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
  68. @Peter Akuleyev
    It would be interesting to see how “% of population that thinks Covidian 19 is a hoax” with ethnic diversity. Obviously in East Asian countries every one pretty much follows the government line. In vibrant France there seems to be a lot of skepticism both on the right and the left. Same in the UK.

    Replies: @Calculator

    Take your calculator and from 100 subtract .00005. The answer is the % number of people who believe the whole thing is a hoax.

  69. @obwandiyag
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I can't believe you DDT-supporters.

    When I was a kid, there were no hawks or herons flying above my parents ex-urban home. Now there are, and its not even all that ex- anymore. DDT, for your information, kills a lot more than mosquitoes, you stupid wanker.

    And what do you mean "all the mosquitoes"? What mosquitoes?

    Past couple summers, where there used to be a cloud of them, there have been no bugs around my porchlight. Even if I leave it on for a long time.

    Maybe you're not old enough. But I am old enough to remember hosing off windshields and grilles. Those praying mantis splats were particularly tenacious. No more. No more at-tall.

    Don't tell me you got bugs. I won't believe you.

    Sometimes environmentalists are just plain right.

    Hey, Farmer, put away the neonicotinoids now.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Homeschooling Mom in NY

    I agree with you for once. I’ve noticed the bug population declining. I chalked it up to the bats in my area, but it’s interesting to see it’s not just me.

    Check out the link between DDT and polio:
    https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/environmental-toxins/pesticides-and-polio-a-critique-of-scientific-literature/

    (Authoritative sources well documented in the footnotes.)

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
    @Homeschooling Mom in NY

    Good for you. You know the truth. It's not the bats. These stupid libertarians think poison is good because it's free. The dangerous idiots. Be free and die.

    Interesting about DDT and polio. Achmed E. Newman never heard of that one. Because he just makes things up and presents his made-up lies as common sense.

  70. After looking at the stripped shelves at my local Walmart this morning, it occurred to me that the little people don’t really trust their government to take care of them. Who knew?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @iffen

    Why should the government be taking care of them to begin with? Are we a nation of toddlers? The Federal Gov't in this country was made for only a few purposes. One of them was defending the borders, so the Fed's part in this should be immigration control and a temporary system of controlling the southern border until a real, decent barrier gets built... like that'll happen.

    Replies: @iffen

  71. @dfordoom
    @obwandiyag


    but here is where I part company with you and start to believe that maybe you are sort of controlled opposition from the left, saying moderate vaguely leftish kind of things in order to siphon off the potency (yeah I used that word in it’s real meaning–power) of the hard core.
     
    One of the more popular conspiracy theories these days is that anybody who expresses scepticism about conspiracy theories is part of a nefarious Jewish communist conspiracy to discredit conspiracy theorists. There's a variation on this, where it's the CIA inventing crazy conspiracy theories in order to discredit the real conspiracy theories.

    What a great world we live in, where we have conspiracy theories about conspiracy theories.

    Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan, @iffen, @another anon

    where we have conspiracy theories about conspiracy theories.

    If you do not know who to trust, trust only mysterious anonymous sources on the internets.
    Always.

    Follow the white rabbit.

    Trust the plan.

    WWG1WGA MAGA KAG Q

    https://twitter.com/Education4Libs/status/1238204524059398145

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
    @another anon

    Thank you. Nice turning of the tables on DforDoom.

  72. @iffen
    After looking at the stripped shelves at my local Walmart this morning, it occurred to me that the little people don't really trust their government to take care of them. Who knew?

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Why should the government be taking care of them to begin with? Are we a nation of toddlers? The Federal Gov’t in this country was made for only a few purposes. One of them was defending the borders, so the Fed’s part in this should be immigration control and a temporary system of controlling the southern border until a real, decent barrier gets built… like that’ll happen.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Why should the government be taking care of them to begin with? Are we a nation of toddlers? The Federal Gov’t in this country was made for only a few purposes.


    You need to update your priors. Start with the current year.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  73. @Achmed E. Newman
    @iffen

    Why should the government be taking care of them to begin with? Are we a nation of toddlers? The Federal Gov't in this country was made for only a few purposes. One of them was defending the borders, so the Fed's part in this should be immigration control and a temporary system of controlling the southern border until a real, decent barrier gets built... like that'll happen.

    Replies: @iffen


    Why should the government be taking care of them to begin with? Are we a nation of toddlers? The Federal Gov’t in this country was made for only a few purposes.

    You need to update your priors. Start with the current year.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @iffen

    My point, before I got all Constitutional and shit, was that it's a GOOD think people are not trusting Uncle Sam to make everything alright. It may be a change in attitude for many, and I like that.

    I shouldn't have worded that prior comment like I did, with a question to you. Sorry.

    Replies: @iffen

  74. @iffen
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Why should the government be taking care of them to begin with? Are we a nation of toddlers? The Federal Gov’t in this country was made for only a few purposes.


    You need to update your priors. Start with the current year.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    My point, before I got all Constitutional and shit, was that it’s a GOOD think people are not trusting Uncle Sam to make everything alright. It may be a change in attitude for many, and I like that.

    I shouldn’t have worded that prior comment like I did, with a question to you. Sorry.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I agree.

    A Jeffersonian utopia where we all are successful yeomen would be the bee's knees, but, you know, reality and sech.

  75. God seems to be going to way too much trouble just to take out Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
  76. @Achmed E. Newman
    @iffen

    My point, before I got all Constitutional and shit, was that it's a GOOD think people are not trusting Uncle Sam to make everything alright. It may be a change in attitude for many, and I like that.

    I shouldn't have worded that prior comment like I did, with a question to you. Sorry.

    Replies: @iffen

    I agree.

    A Jeffersonian utopia where we all are successful yeomen would be the bee’s knees, but, you know, reality and sech.

  77. @aandrews
    @Pierre de Craon

    I keep vacillating between "this isn't that big a deal, really" and "this could be damned serious". VDare (I think it was) had an article up suggesting that Asians had a genetic predisposition to this virus due to a cell surface membrane topology that allowed the virus to bind to the cell (and penetrate it) more aggressively. Implication was that European-descended people were much less susceptible. THEN I watch a portion of a Joe Rogan interview with Michael Osterholm which kinda sways me back to "this could be really serious". THEN I read something somewhere that states that, like, 80% of those infected here will shrug this thing off after being under the weather a bit. Soooo, I'm just going to what I've done: buy a two-pack of 1000 mg Vitamin C tablets and take two a day and call it sufficient. I never get sick anyway. (I am considering finagling a prescription for injectable ascorbic acid and go full-Linus Pauling with large subcutaneous injections. I'm gonna have to think about that, though.)

    Replies: @Pierre de Craon

    For the most part, your plan seems very sensible. But I think you should consider buying ester-C (capsules or powder, not tabs) as opposed to standard ascorbic acid, as the esterized form is far, far better assimilated (i.e., not largely destroyed by stomach acid or peed away). Although you’ll be paying more for ester-C than ascorbic acid, the saving compared with a vitamin C drip or injection is substantial, and ester-C taken by mouth is almost as good as a drip in terms of percentage absorbed at a small fraction of the drip’s cost. A daily dose of 2 or 3 grams should suffice to protect you from the sort of oxidizing infection exemplified by the current media star.

    In addition, I take a daily dose of 200 mcg of selenium with 800 IU of mixed tocopherol vitamin E (natural sources) with or after a meal (i.e., not on an empty stomach). I suggest you do the same, as a low selenium level has been characteristic of those who’ve died from the virus. Selenium is optimally absorbed in the presence of vitamin E, and vice versa.

    For the record, I’m in my mid-seventies and not at all worried about contracting the virus.

  78. @iffen
    @dfordoom

    where we have conspiracy theories about conspiracy theories.

    We knew that's what you were going to say.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    where we have conspiracy theories about conspiracy theories.

    We knew that’s what you were going to say.

    I already know you’re all involved in a conspiracy against me. I have enemies everywhere. Even my cat hates me. He’s in it as well. I’m just not sure if he’s CIA or Mossad. I don’t think he’s a commie but you can’t be sure with cats.

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
    @dfordoom

    Cheap-ass easy-as-pie deconstruction is classic CIA disinformation spycraft. Derrida was CIA.

    , @Mr. Rational
    @dfordoom


    Even my cat hates me. He’s in it as well.
     
    Purranoia, n.  The certainty that the cat is up to something.
  79. A better “Question” might be:
    “Is the Current Corona Virus (one in a long line, aka Covid-19 …
    … being hyped for the gain of a few at the expense of the many? (aka us)
    Most available info follows the (almost-Pareto) 80/20 rule.
    80% is exaggerated B.S.
    10% is simply FALSE
    10% is of value. (e.g. wash your hands, take supplements, live more healthily, etc.
    WORLD WIDE, today, the ENTIRE “Cases” are:
    ~ 100,000 “verified” (perhaps another 100,000 “uncounted”
    ~ 5,000 “deaths”
    see: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    • Replies: @Talha
    @John The Consultant

    I can just see - in an ironic twist - there being a concordant rise in obesity (and resultant early deaths from the same) as people gorge on their hoarded stockpiles of food and forget to ration.

    Sorry, Doom, I had to beat you to this one. :)

    Peace.

    Replies: @dfordoom

  80. @Homeschooling Mom in NY
    @obwandiyag

    I agree with you for once. I’ve noticed the bug population declining. I chalked it up to the bats in my area, but it’s interesting to see it’s not just me.

    Check out the link between DDT and polio:
    https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/environmental-toxins/pesticides-and-polio-a-critique-of-scientific-literature/

    (Authoritative sources well documented in the footnotes.)

    Replies: @obwandiyag

    Good for you. You know the truth. It’s not the bats. These stupid libertarians think poison is good because it’s free. The dangerous idiots. Be free and die.

    Interesting about DDT and polio. Achmed E. Newman never heard of that one. Because he just makes things up and presents his made-up lies as common sense.

  81. @another anon
    @dfordoom


    where we have conspiracy theories about conspiracy theories.
     
    If you do not know who to trust, trust only mysterious anonymous sources on the internets.
    Always.

    Follow the white rabbit.

    Trust the plan.

    WWG1WGA MAGA KAG Q

    https://twitter.com/Education4Libs/status/1238204524059398145

    Replies: @obwandiyag

    Thank you. Nice turning of the tables on DforDoom.

  82. @dfordoom
    @iffen



    where we have conspiracy theories about conspiracy theories.
     
    We knew that’s what you were going to say.
     
    I already know you're all involved in a conspiracy against me. I have enemies everywhere. Even my cat hates me. He's in it as well. I'm just not sure if he's CIA or Mossad. I don't think he's a commie but you can't be sure with cats.

    Replies: @obwandiyag, @Mr. Rational

    Cheap-ass easy-as-pie deconstruction is classic CIA disinformation spycraft. Derrida was CIA.

  83. @dfordoom
    @iffen



    where we have conspiracy theories about conspiracy theories.
     
    We knew that’s what you were going to say.
     
    I already know you're all involved in a conspiracy against me. I have enemies everywhere. Even my cat hates me. He's in it as well. I'm just not sure if he's CIA or Mossad. I don't think he's a commie but you can't be sure with cats.

    Replies: @obwandiyag, @Mr. Rational

    Even my cat hates me. He’s in it as well.

    Purranoia, n.  The certainty that the cat is up to something.

  84. @John The Consultant
    A better "Question" might be:
    "Is the Current Corona Virus (one in a long line, aka Covid-19 ...
    ... being hyped for the gain of a few at the expense of the many? (aka us)
    Most available info follows the (almost-Pareto) 80/20 rule.
    80% is exaggerated B.S.
    10% is simply FALSE
    10% is of value. (e.g. wash your hands, take supplements, live more healthily, etc.
    WORLD WIDE, today, the ENTIRE "Cases" are:
    ~ 100,000 "verified" (perhaps another 100,000 "uncounted"
    ~ 5,000 "deaths"
    see: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    Replies: @Talha

    I can just see – in an ironic twist – there being a concordant rise in obesity (and resultant early deaths from the same) as people gorge on their hoarded stockpiles of food and forget to ration.

    Sorry, Doom, I had to beat you to this one. 🙂

    Peace.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Talha


    I can just see – in an ironic twist – there being a concordant rise in obesity (and resultant early deaths from the same) as people gorge on their hoarded stockpiles of food and forget to ration.
     
    We may also see people crushed to death when the mountains of toilet paper they have hoarded collapse on top of them.

    Replies: @Talha

  85. @Talha
    @John The Consultant

    I can just see - in an ironic twist - there being a concordant rise in obesity (and resultant early deaths from the same) as people gorge on their hoarded stockpiles of food and forget to ration.

    Sorry, Doom, I had to beat you to this one. :)

    Peace.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    I can just see – in an ironic twist – there being a concordant rise in obesity (and resultant early deaths from the same) as people gorge on their hoarded stockpiles of food and forget to ration.

    We may also see people crushed to death when the mountains of toilet paper they have hoarded collapse on top of them.

    • LOL: Talha
    • Replies: @Talha
    @dfordoom

    Me: “Some attempt at pessimism...”

    Doom (rolling up sleeves): “Let me show you how it’s done; hold my beer.”

    Peace.

  86. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Mr. Rational

    Mr. Rational, thanks for that comment. That was just part of the initial few hundred or so basic physics calculations of all sorts (mechanics, thermo, heat transfer, etc.) to show that the whole idea could be accomplished to begin with. It took those (likely) HUNDREDS of thousands of engineers around the US (98% white men would be my guess) to make all the details work. One little detail off, and you get Apollo 13 or Apollo 1.

    I'd like to add this point, which I haven't before - if you have never been up close to a Lockheed Starfighter, another "century-series" fighter, or any top-of-the-line aircraft from that era, you can't understand how amazing technology was already with hardly one lick of electronics. Fuel cost and worries about a letta from Gretta was not a thing though ...

    This was a different place, a real CAN-DO country that maybe the world will never see again. China is the new CAN-DO country, but with the corruption, sorry-assed Q/A, and still too much reliance on engineering via theft, it's not the same as 1940s through 1969 US of A.

    Replies: @Mr. Rational, @Znzn

    F-4 > F-104

  87. @dfordoom
    @Talha


    I can just see – in an ironic twist – there being a concordant rise in obesity (and resultant early deaths from the same) as people gorge on their hoarded stockpiles of food and forget to ration.
     
    We may also see people crushed to death when the mountains of toilet paper they have hoarded collapse on top of them.

    Replies: @Talha

    Me: “Some attempt at pessimism…”

    Doom (rolling up sleeves): “Let me show you how it’s done; hold my beer.”

    Peace.

  88. @anon

    there is a clear divide on the left between white liberals and non-whites.
     
    I must be missing something - which bar on this graph represents white liberals?

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    That’s as detailed as the cross-tabs get, unfortunately.

  89. @Magic Dirt Resident
    If only there was a children's fable about someone who constantly lies and loses the trust of the public so that when there actually is a critically important message nobody believes them.

    Replies: @res, @Audacious Epigone

    Just the first 20 seconds or so:

  90. @follyofwar
    To those who remain convinced that Covid-19 is a hoax, then the owners of the NBA must be the biggest idiots on earth. They suspended the rest of the season and the playoffs after one player on the Utah Jazz contracted the virus. Before he was identified, his team played a half a dozen games on a road trip, exposing all whose sweat mingled with his to the disease.

    It had to cost the owners tens of millions in revenue, but, to not cancel the season after they knew about it would have been worse, considering the probable lawsuits if any other players became infected and died. Most of us will be perfectly fine this spring and won't miss the NBA playoffs. Will baseball cancel next, or will they still play before empty stadiums?

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    The litigious aftermath of this thing, however it plays out, is going to be nauseating. Unless you’re a lawyer, that is!

  91. What gibberish it all is. Someone sneezes and everyone ducks for cover.
    If the “government” says tomorrow “Everyone must now quarantine themselves in their dog kennel” the public would buy up all the kennels and sleep outside.
    Want to know a real threat?
    WI-FI, smart technology and cell towers (human microwave cookers) which is what really lowers your immunity.
    Oh but watch out here comes that killer sneeze.
    I thought people were gullible but this takes the dog biscuit.
    Get some sane honest leaders if you can…

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