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Despite an avowed refusal to take a Covid vaccine approved by the Trump administration being a Biden campaign talking point repeated by both people on the ticket, Democrats are considerably less skeptical of it than Republicans are:

Non-black Democrats, anyway. Given the black propensity to believe the US government has explicitly targeted them in a host of horrible ways, that result is not particularly surprising. Never mind, though, Biden wants to shove them to the front of the line, just behind first responders:

Positioning himself as the vaccine guy may not help Trump much electorally. Positioning himself as the reopening guy might, though. It’s frequently said on both the dissident right and the progressive left that the largest bloc of American voters are people who don’t vote. Pitching himself as the person who will reopen the country so people can go back to living their lives again is a plausible, non-ideological way to reach that bloc. Polling suggests the reopeners are in the minority but their numbers are growing and in retrospect I suspect they are going to be vindicated as the ones who got it right.

 
• Category: Culture/Society, Ideology, Science • Tags: Election 2020, Polling, Science 
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  1. For once, I admire Blacks.

  2. Trump has half-assed this campaign big time.
    In 2016 he was brilliant at picking up winning talking points and serving brilliant zingers, now he is just an old man yelling at the clouds. His lack of success in many of his promises makes it hard to believe that he would do more given another 4 years and the establishment of widespread internet censorship killed any of the meme magic that gave his last campaign a surreal quality, but that’s the point though; the man who promised to Make America Great Again can’t even get his own posts past the neomaoist censors.
    It would have been interesting if he acknowledged his relative impotence and ran on an anti-PC Keep America Free campaign, but it would have been a hard sell as Biden doesn’t give a SJ commissar vibe like Harris does.

    • Agree: V. K. Ovelund
    • Disagree: ThisIsAnon153Replying
    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @SIMP simp

    The bigger question is why Trump is still on Twitter at all.

    Replies: @Half-Jap

    , @ThisIsAnon153Replying
    @SIMP simp

    Trump is doing fine

    I know you guys want a 14/88 candidate screaming about how immigrants are evil at every rally, but our own people (white people) are turned off by that

    Trump is still best for white people, and ks the first president who has done anything for our benefit in a long time.

    Replies: @Justvisiting

  3. Given I was almost killed by a flu shot, I don’t care which party is pushing a novel, relatively untested vaccine for COVID … I’d rather take my chances with the virus.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @The Alarmist


    ... I was almost killed by a flu shot....
     
    What happened?

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    , @Adam Smith
    @The Alarmist

    A flu shot killed my grandfather.

    Glad to hear you recovered.

    Replies: @aleksander

  4. @SIMP simp
    Trump has half-assed this campaign big time.
    In 2016 he was brilliant at picking up winning talking points and serving brilliant zingers, now he is just an old man yelling at the clouds. His lack of success in many of his promises makes it hard to believe that he would do more given another 4 years and the establishment of widespread internet censorship killed any of the meme magic that gave his last campaign a surreal quality, but that's the point though; the man who promised to Make America Great Again can't even get his own posts past the neomaoist censors.
    It would have been interesting if he acknowledged his relative impotence and ran on an anti-PC Keep America Free campaign, but it would have been a hard sell as Biden doesn't give a SJ commissar vibe like Harris does.

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @ThisIsAnon153Replying

    The bigger question is why Trump is still on Twitter at all.

    • Replies: @Half-Jap
    @The Alarmist

    Probably because either he is not aware, does not want to be associated with the other sites for fear of being smeared (as if he's already beyond that since before the last election), or the cuckservatives around him keep him away for appearances. In any event, way too late for anything sensible, either legally or by choosing another platform.
    If only the mother of all deplatforming happens in reverse, with him just leaving for minds, parlor or whatever. I can already see the lawsuits that'll now force him to use the twatter.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

  5. @The Alarmist
    Given I was almost killed by a flu shot, I don’t care which party is pushing a novel, relatively untested vaccine for COVID ... I’d rather take my chances with the virus.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @Adam Smith

    … I was almost killed by a flu shot….

    What happened?

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @V. K. Ovelund

    Allergic reaction that left me open to pneumonia.

  6. @SIMP simp
    Trump has half-assed this campaign big time.
    In 2016 he was brilliant at picking up winning talking points and serving brilliant zingers, now he is just an old man yelling at the clouds. His lack of success in many of his promises makes it hard to believe that he would do more given another 4 years and the establishment of widespread internet censorship killed any of the meme magic that gave his last campaign a surreal quality, but that's the point though; the man who promised to Make America Great Again can't even get his own posts past the neomaoist censors.
    It would have been interesting if he acknowledged his relative impotence and ran on an anti-PC Keep America Free campaign, but it would have been a hard sell as Biden doesn't give a SJ commissar vibe like Harris does.

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @ThisIsAnon153Replying

    Trump is doing fine

    I know you guys want a 14/88 candidate screaming about how immigrants are evil at every rally, but our own people (white people) are turned off by that

    Trump is still best for white people, and ks the first president who has done anything for our benefit in a long time.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
    @ThisIsAnon153Replying

    One reason the pollsters are toast and Trump will coast to victory is because of CV propaganda.

    This is a new influence on the election, so it is way over the heads of the "experts".

    (1) We know Democrats are more likely to believe the mass media than other voters. (lots of sources for anyone who wants to verify...bottom line--only 40% of Americans trust the mass media and they are almost all Democrats.)

    (2) The mass media has been pushing coronavirus fear porn for months--and continue to do so today.

    (3) Therefore, and polls confirm this, Democrats are far more concerned about appearing in public places and risking catching the disease.

    (4) Therefore, any Democrats who have not voted by mail or early voted in person (probably at least a third, perhaps half, depending on the state rules) are terrified of voting in person and catching coronavirus from other voters and/or poll workers.

    Conclusion: The mass media will be directly responsible for a significant suppression of the Democratic vote, perhaps by as much as 10% or so (with a net impact of 3+% on the total vote).

    Everyone has missed this!

    Wait for the whining and crying from the mass media talking heads after the election when they eventually figure out that _they_ suppressed the Democratic vote!

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  7. I’d like to see this poll taken in the appropriate venue. That would be right inside the drug store in the pharmacy area. All respondents should be asked the question while a needle is loaded up and ready to go. The previous questions ought to be:

    a) Do you know anyone who has died or gotten really sick specifically from the COVID-19?

    b) Will you sign a form releasing this store from liability for unwanted side-effects of this experimental vaccine?

    c) OK, here it comes, make a fist, and do you want to bite down on a Jolly Rancher pop or a Sugar Daddy?

  8. I notice that, earlier in the same video, Joe Biden says:

    I trust scientists, but I don’t trust Donald Trump.

    Of course he trusts scientists. In this new era, a U.S. scientist that disagrees with Biden and his party—or even merely fails to agree quickly or loudly enough—may not get to be a scientist very long. One way or another, especially if the scientist is or would like to be a professor responsible for the training of new scientists, the scientist that disagrees with Biden and his party is likely to be purged.

    Science was largely real 40 or even 20 years ago. No longer.

    What changed? I have a suspicion but do not know.

    I regret that the Democrats failed to nominate a person like Tulsi Gabbard or Andrew Yang who paid attention to intellectual life outside the Progressive bubble. Biden’s not bad, but his “I trust scientists” is risible.

    Nevertheless, I will probably take the vaccine.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    @V. K. Ovelund

    "What changed? I have a suspicion but do not know."

    What has changed is brilliant financial positioning by the federal government. The federal government contributes about 1/6 of all the money spent in higher education, but it controls essentially 100% of the money spent in higher education because of the requirements that anybody accepting one dollar of federal money Has to comply with federal regulations. This has also affected science. Essentially, all the money Spent on science at the university level is controlled by federal regulations.

    One of the more interesting experiments ever run in psychology was Stanley Milgram's compliance experiment. You simply could not run that experiment today because it would run afoul of the institutional review board, which is a bureaucratic body mandated by the federal government. So, in essence,Science is completely under the control of the federal government.

    As you can note from the FBI, and from other federal organizations, the left has figured out how to use those organizations to control the entire country. If you want science to be science again, eliminate all federal funding for it.

  9. The groups where there is maximum need:

    -1- Frontline medical & retirement home staff.
    -2- Those who are both 65+ and have other preexisting conditions such as poor lung function.
    -3- Anyone sharing a household with individuals in #1 or #2.

    Unless some pressing need from the above list arises, I am not going to take a rushed to market WUHAN-19 vaccine. It is not that the risk is high… It isn’t. Bottom line… The reward is effectively zero.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    @A123

    Yes, recall an earlier rush job with vaccine:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_swine_flu_outbreak

    If I were in the group where the survival rate for the virus after infection is 99.997%, I wouldn't take it. I do know several young people who had it and they're not going to take it.

    , @follyofwar
    @A123

    How do you know that the risk of taking Trump's rushed vaccine is not high? Answer is that you don't.

    I don't know what qualifies as a "preexisting condition." I'm over 65, and virtually anyone over that age has something that doesn't work so well anymore. Defined broadly enough, we seniors all have certain preexisting conditions, as do a large percentage of younger people. Don't pigeon-hole us old folk as being in "maximum need," (whatever that means). Whether the vaccine winds up being a killer or not, just like the flu shot, (which I haven't taken for over 20 years with no flu), I'm not about to find out.

  10. @V. K. Ovelund
    I notice that, earlier in the same video, Joe Biden says:

    I trust scientists, but I don't trust Donald Trump.
     
    Of course he trusts scientists. In this new era, a U.S. scientist that disagrees with Biden and his party—or even merely fails to agree quickly or loudly enough—may not get to be a scientist very long. One way or another, especially if the scientist is or would like to be a professor responsible for the training of new scientists, the scientist that disagrees with Biden and his party is likely to be purged.

    Science was largely real 40 or even 20 years ago. No longer.

    What changed? I have a suspicion but do not know.

    I regret that the Democrats failed to nominate a person like Tulsi Gabbard or Andrew Yang who paid attention to intellectual life outside the Progressive bubble. Biden's not bad, but his “I trust scientists” is risible.

    Nevertheless, I will probably take the vaccine.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt

    “What changed? I have a suspicion but do not know.”

    What has changed is brilliant financial positioning by the federal government. The federal government contributes about 1/6 of all the money spent in higher education, but it controls essentially 100% of the money spent in higher education because of the requirements that anybody accepting one dollar of federal money Has to comply with federal regulations. This has also affected science. Essentially, all the money Spent on science at the university level is controlled by federal regulations.

    One of the more interesting experiments ever run in psychology was Stanley Milgram’s compliance experiment. You simply could not run that experiment today because it would run afoul of the institutional review board, which is a bureaucratic body mandated by the federal government. So, in essence,Science is completely under the control of the federal government.

    As you can note from the FBI, and from other federal organizations, the left has figured out how to use those organizations to control the entire country. If you want science to be science again, eliminate all federal funding for it.

    • Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
  11. They can vaccinate me when I’m a cold stiff.

    • Agree: follyofwar
  12. @A123
    The groups where there is maximum need:

    -1- Frontline medical & retirement home staff.
    -2- Those who are both 65+ and have other preexisting conditions such as poor lung function.
    -3- Anyone sharing a household with individuals in #1 or #2.

    Unless some pressing need from the above list arises, I am not going to take a rushed to market WUHAN-19 vaccine. It is not that the risk is high... It isn't. Bottom line... The reward is effectively zero.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @TomSchmidt, @follyofwar

    Yes, recall an earlier rush job with vaccine:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_swine_flu_outbreak

    If I were in the group where the survival rate for the virus after infection is 99.997%, I wouldn’t take it. I do know several young people who had it and they’re not going to take it.

    • Agree: Flying Dutchman
  13. the reopeners are in the minority but their numbers are growing and in retrospect I suspect they are going to be vindicated as the ones who got it right.

    Hell, yeah!

    Used to be, at home, I would drive up to Montreal between Thanksgiving and Christmas and take in the old world atmosphere of the waterfront and Notre Dame and downtown while partaking of Quebecois food and drink.

    That’s all finished now. Maybe in 2-3 years I can go back to Schwatz’s deli if it’s still open.

    Fuck you, left. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck yoooooooooooooouuuuuu!

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Chrisnonymous


    Fuck you, left. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck yoooooooooooooouuuuuu!
     
    Lots of right-wing governments have been very enthusiastic about lockdowns (Australia and Britain being obvious examples). It's not really a right-left thing.

    In most countries there has been massive public support for the lockdowns.

    As AE says, polling suggests the reopeners are in the minority. And I suspect that the really keen reopeners are already locked-in Trump voters. In the US it has become a tribal marker for the MAGA hat brigade. But I'm not sure that reopening will win many swing voters.

    As for the vaccine, I'm generally in favour of vaccines. When there's been proper long-term testing. In this case the vaccine is going to be one that's been rushed onto the market for political reasons. I'd prefer not to be a guinea pig for a possibly inadequately tested vaccine.

    Replies: @Peripatetic Commenter, @Jedi Night

  14. A question, AE: it seems that the likelihood of coming down with a case of COVID that requires hospitalization is related to the viral load one intakes. This is one reason why indoor transmission (in the north in winter, in the south in summer) seems to lead not just to more infections, but more hospitalizations and deaths. Is there actual data showing that lower viral load leads to milder cases, so a person exposed to a feverish person coughing indoors is more likely to become gravely infected than someone exposed to a mild case out of doors?

    If so, wouldn’t the rational course of action be to progressively infect people with a low viral load so they would get a mild case and recover, with the ability to resist a heavier load at a later time? Parents used to do this with measles.

    • Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    @TomSchmidt

    I went looking for evidence. A Google search revealed:
    https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/88692


    Writing in the New England Journal of Medicine, Monica Gandhi, MD, and George Rutherford, MD, of the University of California in San Francisco, hypothesized that widespread population masking may act as a sort of "variolation," exposing individuals to a smaller amount of viral particles and producing an immune response.

    Gandhi told MedPage Today that the viral inoculum, or the initial dose of virus that a patient takes in, is one likely determinant of ultimate illness severity. ...

    The "variolation" hypothesis holds that, at some level, the inoculum overwhelms the immune system, leading to serious illness. With less than that (and the threshold may vary from one person to the next), the individual successfully fights off the infection, with mild or no clinical illness.
     
    Now, granted that the effort here seems to be to encourage masking, it still seems to suggest that deliberately infecting people with a mild case of COVID could be done quickly, efficiently, and cheaply, with no need for a vaccine. To some extent, the young people at colleges who willingly infect themselves at campus parties are advancing us towards herd immunity.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @TomSchmidt

    Don't know re: viral load. I've heard the same.

    Isn't that what a vaccine is supposed to do? Were chicken pox parties limited in exposure, or is that more of a binary affliction?

    Replies: @TomSchmidt

  15. I’m not an anti-vaxxer — I get tetanus vaccines because I get a lot of dirty farm injuries (I’ve seen an animal die of tetanus, one of the ugliest deaths you can imagine) — but I won’t be getting the COVID vaccine. It just seems far to rushed to be known to be both safe and effective, and I just have a gut aversion to all the massive hysteria over COVID and the Holy Grail Vaccine. Even at 56, I’m overwhelmingly likely to come through COVID just fine. I’m healthy, reasonably fit, get a decent amount of time outdoors every day and have no health conditions.

  16. @A123
    The groups where there is maximum need:

    -1- Frontline medical & retirement home staff.
    -2- Those who are both 65+ and have other preexisting conditions such as poor lung function.
    -3- Anyone sharing a household with individuals in #1 or #2.

    Unless some pressing need from the above list arises, I am not going to take a rushed to market WUHAN-19 vaccine. It is not that the risk is high... It isn't. Bottom line... The reward is effectively zero.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @TomSchmidt, @follyofwar

    How do you know that the risk of taking Trump’s rushed vaccine is not high? Answer is that you don’t.

    I don’t know what qualifies as a “preexisting condition.” I’m over 65, and virtually anyone over that age has something that doesn’t work so well anymore. Defined broadly enough, we seniors all have certain preexisting conditions, as do a large percentage of younger people. Don’t pigeon-hole us old folk as being in “maximum need,” (whatever that means). Whether the vaccine winds up being a killer or not, just like the flu shot, (which I haven’t taken for over 20 years with no flu), I’m not about to find out.

    • Agree: Adam Smith
  17. @ThisIsAnon153Replying
    @SIMP simp

    Trump is doing fine

    I know you guys want a 14/88 candidate screaming about how immigrants are evil at every rally, but our own people (white people) are turned off by that

    Trump is still best for white people, and ks the first president who has done anything for our benefit in a long time.

    Replies: @Justvisiting

    One reason the pollsters are toast and Trump will coast to victory is because of CV propaganda.

    This is a new influence on the election, so it is way over the heads of the “experts”.

    (1) We know Democrats are more likely to believe the mass media than other voters. (lots of sources for anyone who wants to verify…bottom line–only 40% of Americans trust the mass media and they are almost all Democrats.)

    (2) The mass media has been pushing coronavirus fear porn for months–and continue to do so today.

    (3) Therefore, and polls confirm this, Democrats are far more concerned about appearing in public places and risking catching the disease.

    (4) Therefore, any Democrats who have not voted by mail or early voted in person (probably at least a third, perhaps half, depending on the state rules) are terrified of voting in person and catching coronavirus from other voters and/or poll workers.

    Conclusion: The mass media will be directly responsible for a significant suppression of the Democratic vote, perhaps by as much as 10% or so (with a net impact of 3+% on the total vote).

    Everyone has missed this!

    Wait for the whining and crying from the mass media talking heads after the election when they eventually figure out that _they_ suppressed the Democratic vote!

    • Agree: PhilK
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Justvisiting

    I hope you're right, chief. Thanks for the encouragement.

  18. @V. K. Ovelund
    @The Alarmist


    ... I was almost killed by a flu shot....
     
    What happened?

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    Allergic reaction that left me open to pneumonia.

  19. @Chrisnonymous

    the reopeners are in the minority but their numbers are growing and in retrospect I suspect they are going to be vindicated as the ones who got it right.
     
    Hell, yeah!

    Used to be, at home, I would drive up to Montreal between Thanksgiving and Christmas and take in the old world atmosphere of the waterfront and Notre Dame and downtown while partaking of Quebecois food and drink.

    That's all finished now. Maybe in 2-3 years I can go back to Schwatz's deli if it's still open.

    Fuck you, left. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck yoooooooooooooouuuuuu!

    Replies: @dfordoom

    Fuck you, left. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck yoooooooooooooouuuuuu!

    Lots of right-wing governments have been very enthusiastic about lockdowns (Australia and Britain being obvious examples). It’s not really a right-left thing.

    In most countries there has been massive public support for the lockdowns.

    As AE says, polling suggests the reopeners are in the minority. And I suspect that the really keen reopeners are already locked-in Trump voters. In the US it has become a tribal marker for the MAGA hat brigade. But I’m not sure that reopening will win many swing voters.

    As for the vaccine, I’m generally in favour of vaccines. When there’s been proper long-term testing. In this case the vaccine is going to be one that’s been rushed onto the market for political reasons. I’d prefer not to be a guinea pig for a possibly inadequately tested vaccine.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Commenter
    @dfordoom


    Lots of right-wing governments have been very enthusiastic about lockdowns (Australia and Britain being obvious examples).
     
    Which century are you talking about?

    The current government in Australia is about as right-wing as Clement Attlee.
    , @Jedi Night
    @dfordoom

    The tired old swing voter concept. False, mate. Time to update your mental picture.

    Elections hinge on enthusiasm and turnout.

    Giving people who want the lockdowns to end someone to vote for would be a huge turnout generator.

    Replies: @Dissident

  20. @dfordoom
    @Chrisnonymous


    Fuck you, left. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck yoooooooooooooouuuuuu!
     
    Lots of right-wing governments have been very enthusiastic about lockdowns (Australia and Britain being obvious examples). It's not really a right-left thing.

    In most countries there has been massive public support for the lockdowns.

    As AE says, polling suggests the reopeners are in the minority. And I suspect that the really keen reopeners are already locked-in Trump voters. In the US it has become a tribal marker for the MAGA hat brigade. But I'm not sure that reopening will win many swing voters.

    As for the vaccine, I'm generally in favour of vaccines. When there's been proper long-term testing. In this case the vaccine is going to be one that's been rushed onto the market for political reasons. I'd prefer not to be a guinea pig for a possibly inadequately tested vaccine.

    Replies: @Peripatetic Commenter, @Jedi Night

    Lots of right-wing governments have been very enthusiastic about lockdowns (Australia and Britain being obvious examples).

    Which century are you talking about?

    The current government in Australia is about as right-wing as Clement Attlee.

  21. @Justvisiting
    @ThisIsAnon153Replying

    One reason the pollsters are toast and Trump will coast to victory is because of CV propaganda.

    This is a new influence on the election, so it is way over the heads of the "experts".

    (1) We know Democrats are more likely to believe the mass media than other voters. (lots of sources for anyone who wants to verify...bottom line--only 40% of Americans trust the mass media and they are almost all Democrats.)

    (2) The mass media has been pushing coronavirus fear porn for months--and continue to do so today.

    (3) Therefore, and polls confirm this, Democrats are far more concerned about appearing in public places and risking catching the disease.

    (4) Therefore, any Democrats who have not voted by mail or early voted in person (probably at least a third, perhaps half, depending on the state rules) are terrified of voting in person and catching coronavirus from other voters and/or poll workers.

    Conclusion: The mass media will be directly responsible for a significant suppression of the Democratic vote, perhaps by as much as 10% or so (with a net impact of 3+% on the total vote).

    Everyone has missed this!

    Wait for the whining and crying from the mass media talking heads after the election when they eventually figure out that _they_ suppressed the Democratic vote!

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    I hope you’re right, chief. Thanks for the encouragement.

  22. @dfordoom
    @Chrisnonymous


    Fuck you, left. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck yoooooooooooooouuuuuu!
     
    Lots of right-wing governments have been very enthusiastic about lockdowns (Australia and Britain being obvious examples). It's not really a right-left thing.

    In most countries there has been massive public support for the lockdowns.

    As AE says, polling suggests the reopeners are in the minority. And I suspect that the really keen reopeners are already locked-in Trump voters. In the US it has become a tribal marker for the MAGA hat brigade. But I'm not sure that reopening will win many swing voters.

    As for the vaccine, I'm generally in favour of vaccines. When there's been proper long-term testing. In this case the vaccine is going to be one that's been rushed onto the market for political reasons. I'd prefer not to be a guinea pig for a possibly inadequately tested vaccine.

    Replies: @Peripatetic Commenter, @Jedi Night

    The tired old swing voter concept. False, mate. Time to update your mental picture.

    Elections hinge on enthusiasm and turnout.

    Giving people who want the lockdowns to end someone to vote for would be a huge turnout generator.

    • Replies: @Dissident
    @Jedi Night


    Giving people who want the lockdowns to end someone to vote for would be a huge turnout generator.
     
    Only if there is a high enough number of such individuals that have not already decided whether/how they will vote. Is there evidence that would argue against dfordoom's suspicion that, "the really keen reopeners are already locked-in Trump voters."?

    Replies: @Jedi Night

  23. @The Alarmist
    Given I was almost killed by a flu shot, I don’t care which party is pushing a novel, relatively untested vaccine for COVID ... I’d rather take my chances with the virus.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @Adam Smith

    A flu shot killed my grandfather.

    Glad to hear you recovered.

    • Thanks: The Alarmist
    • Replies: @aleksander
    @Adam Smith

    A flu shot killed a family friend in Lubbock, TX. It hits diabetics hard. He got the shot one day, and died the next morning. An epidemic of coincidences. The manufacturers know it.

    Replies: @Adam Smith

  24. @Jedi Night
    @dfordoom

    The tired old swing voter concept. False, mate. Time to update your mental picture.

    Elections hinge on enthusiasm and turnout.

    Giving people who want the lockdowns to end someone to vote for would be a huge turnout generator.

    Replies: @Dissident

    Giving people who want the lockdowns to end someone to vote for would be a huge turnout generator.

    Only if there is a high enough number of such individuals that have not already decided whether/how they will vote. Is there evidence that would argue against dfordoom‘s suspicion that, “the really keen reopeners are already locked-in Trump voters.”?

    • Replies: @Jedi Night
    @Dissident

    Purely anecdotal, but in the school district where my padawan attend, there is a huge group of normies who see the massive negative impact on their own children's lives by the lockdown. A huge ground swell pushed for schools to open.

    It's also becoming a demonstrable joke as we see the scores of students absent for a few days with covid and laughing it off when they come back, recounting their experience of a couple days of sniffles.

    Being stuck at home all day every day for months with your kids is a type of daily personal torture that motivates people to vote if there is a clear referendum.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

  25. @TomSchmidt
    A question, AE: it seems that the likelihood of coming down with a case of COVID that requires hospitalization is related to the viral load one intakes. This is one reason why indoor transmission (in the north in winter, in the south in summer) seems to lead not just to more infections, but more hospitalizations and deaths. Is there actual data showing that lower viral load leads to milder cases, so a person exposed to a feverish person coughing indoors is more likely to become gravely infected than someone exposed to a mild case out of doors?

    If so, wouldn't the rational course of action be to progressively infect people with a low viral load so they would get a mild case and recover, with the ability to resist a heavier load at a later time? Parents used to do this with measles.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt, @Audacious Epigone

    I went looking for evidence. A Google search revealed:
    https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/88692

    Writing in the New England Journal of Medicine, Monica Gandhi, MD, and George Rutherford, MD, of the University of California in San Francisco, hypothesized that widespread population masking may act as a sort of “variolation,” exposing individuals to a smaller amount of viral particles and producing an immune response.

    Gandhi told MedPage Today that the viral inoculum, or the initial dose of virus that a patient takes in, is one likely determinant of ultimate illness severity. …

    The “variolation” hypothesis holds that, at some level, the inoculum overwhelms the immune system, leading to serious illness. With less than that (and the threshold may vary from one person to the next), the individual successfully fights off the infection, with mild or no clinical illness.

    Now, granted that the effort here seems to be to encourage masking, it still seems to suggest that deliberately infecting people with a mild case of COVID could be done quickly, efficiently, and cheaply, with no need for a vaccine. To some extent, the young people at colleges who willingly infect themselves at campus parties are advancing us towards herd immunity.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @TomSchmidt

    Except the way most people wear masks, they will die from bacterial pneumonia induced by the masks.

    I’m all for the youth getting out there and living. I really feel for my younger colleagues who for the most part are going along with the lockdown, as you can tell it is crushing their souls.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt

  26. All you need to know about vaccines is 1, the worst people in the world want to force you to take them at the point of a gun. And 2, when Trump pushed a vaccine, they immediately flipped to performative skepticism.

    The most charitable explanation is mandatory vaccinations are a flex.

    The more likely explanation is vaccines are very bad for you.

    • Agree: Cloudbuster
  27. @Dissident
    @Jedi Night


    Giving people who want the lockdowns to end someone to vote for would be a huge turnout generator.
     
    Only if there is a high enough number of such individuals that have not already decided whether/how they will vote. Is there evidence that would argue against dfordoom's suspicion that, "the really keen reopeners are already locked-in Trump voters."?

    Replies: @Jedi Night

    Purely anecdotal, but in the school district where my padawan attend, there is a huge group of normies who see the massive negative impact on their own children’s lives by the lockdown. A huge ground swell pushed for schools to open.

    It’s also becoming a demonstrable joke as we see the scores of students absent for a few days with covid and laughing it off when they come back, recounting their experience of a couple days of sniffles.

    Being stuck at home all day every day for months with your kids is a type of daily personal torture that motivates people to vote if there is a clear referendum.

    • Thanks: Dissident
    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Jedi Night

    but in the school district where my padawan attend

    I've never seen a Star Wars and that still made me LOL when I read it and then looked at your handle.

  28. @Adam Smith
    @The Alarmist

    A flu shot killed my grandfather.

    Glad to hear you recovered.

    Replies: @aleksander

    A flu shot killed a family friend in Lubbock, TX. It hits diabetics hard. He got the shot one day, and died the next morning. An epidemic of coincidences. The manufacturers know it.

    • Replies: @Adam Smith
    @aleksander

    Sorry to hear about your friend. My condolences.

    I think they very well know what they're doing. From the cdc...


    Because of age-related changes in their immune systems, people 65 years and older may not respond as well to vaccination as younger people.
     

    The high dose and adjuvanted flu vaccines may result in more of the temporary, mild side effects that can occur with standard-dose seasonal shots.
     
    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/highrisk/65over.htm

    It makes no sense to me to give people 65 and older, and those with weakened immune systems, a higher dose of the fluvax cocktail unless the goal is to cull some of the herd.

    In the news this week...

    https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/health-environment/article/3107230/flu-vaccine-deaths-south-korea-scrambles-control-panic

    https://www.fiercepharma.com/vaccines/sanofi-sk-flu-shots-halted-singapore-as-south-korea-post-vaccination-deaths-climb-to-59

    An epidemic of coincidences.

  29. @TomSchmidt
    @TomSchmidt

    I went looking for evidence. A Google search revealed:
    https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/88692


    Writing in the New England Journal of Medicine, Monica Gandhi, MD, and George Rutherford, MD, of the University of California in San Francisco, hypothesized that widespread population masking may act as a sort of "variolation," exposing individuals to a smaller amount of viral particles and producing an immune response.

    Gandhi told MedPage Today that the viral inoculum, or the initial dose of virus that a patient takes in, is one likely determinant of ultimate illness severity. ...

    The "variolation" hypothesis holds that, at some level, the inoculum overwhelms the immune system, leading to serious illness. With less than that (and the threshold may vary from one person to the next), the individual successfully fights off the infection, with mild or no clinical illness.
     
    Now, granted that the effort here seems to be to encourage masking, it still seems to suggest that deliberately infecting people with a mild case of COVID could be done quickly, efficiently, and cheaply, with no need for a vaccine. To some extent, the young people at colleges who willingly infect themselves at campus parties are advancing us towards herd immunity.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    Except the way most people wear masks, they will die from bacterial pneumonia induced by the masks.

    I’m all for the youth getting out there and living. I really feel for my younger colleagues who for the most part are going along with the lockdown, as you can tell it is crushing their souls.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    @The Alarmist

    It's crushing my soul as well, but at least it won't have been for most of my life. I feel for the younger people who have to deal with this imposition that frankly does not benefit them.

  30. @The Alarmist
    @SIMP simp

    The bigger question is why Trump is still on Twitter at all.

    Replies: @Half-Jap

    Probably because either he is not aware, does not want to be associated with the other sites for fear of being smeared (as if he’s already beyond that since before the last election), or the cuckservatives around him keep him away for appearances. In any event, way too late for anything sensible, either legally or by choosing another platform.
    If only the mother of all deplatforming happens in reverse, with him just leaving for minds, parlor or whatever. I can already see the lawsuits that’ll now force him to use the twatter.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @Half-Jap

    Forcing Trump to use Twatter for reasons of public access would write in stone that it can be regulated like a common carrier.

  31. @Half-Jap
    @The Alarmist

    Probably because either he is not aware, does not want to be associated with the other sites for fear of being smeared (as if he's already beyond that since before the last election), or the cuckservatives around him keep him away for appearances. In any event, way too late for anything sensible, either legally or by choosing another platform.
    If only the mother of all deplatforming happens in reverse, with him just leaving for minds, parlor or whatever. I can already see the lawsuits that'll now force him to use the twatter.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    Forcing Trump to use Twatter for reasons of public access would write in stone that it can be regulated like a common carrier.

  32. @aleksander
    @Adam Smith

    A flu shot killed a family friend in Lubbock, TX. It hits diabetics hard. He got the shot one day, and died the next morning. An epidemic of coincidences. The manufacturers know it.

    Replies: @Adam Smith

    Sorry to hear about your friend. My condolences.

    I think they very well know what they’re doing. From the cdc…

    Because of age-related changes in their immune systems, people 65 years and older may not respond as well to vaccination as younger people.

    The high dose and adjuvanted flu vaccines may result in more of the temporary, mild side effects that can occur with standard-dose seasonal shots.

    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/highrisk/65over.htm

    It makes no sense to me to give people 65 and older, and those with weakened immune systems, a higher dose of the fluvax cocktail unless the goal is to cull some of the herd.

    In the news this week…

    https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/health-environment/article/3107230/flu-vaccine-deaths-south-korea-scrambles-control-panic

    https://www.fiercepharma.com/vaccines/sanofi-sk-flu-shots-halted-singapore-as-south-korea-post-vaccination-deaths-climb-to-59

    An epidemic of coincidences.

  33. @The Alarmist
    @TomSchmidt

    Except the way most people wear masks, they will die from bacterial pneumonia induced by the masks.

    I’m all for the youth getting out there and living. I really feel for my younger colleagues who for the most part are going along with the lockdown, as you can tell it is crushing their souls.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt

    It’s crushing my soul as well, but at least it won’t have been for most of my life. I feel for the younger people who have to deal with this imposition that frankly does not benefit them.

  34. @TomSchmidt
    A question, AE: it seems that the likelihood of coming down with a case of COVID that requires hospitalization is related to the viral load one intakes. This is one reason why indoor transmission (in the north in winter, in the south in summer) seems to lead not just to more infections, but more hospitalizations and deaths. Is there actual data showing that lower viral load leads to milder cases, so a person exposed to a feverish person coughing indoors is more likely to become gravely infected than someone exposed to a mild case out of doors?

    If so, wouldn't the rational course of action be to progressively infect people with a low viral load so they would get a mild case and recover, with the ability to resist a heavier load at a later time? Parents used to do this with measles.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt, @Audacious Epigone

    Don’t know re: viral load. I’ve heard the same.

    Isn’t that what a vaccine is supposed to do? Were chicken pox parties limited in exposure, or is that more of a binary affliction?

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    @Audacious Epigone

    It appears to be the case that viral load matters in severity of infection. I posted another link to my first reply on that.

    The original vaccine gave you cowpox, which prevented you from getting the more severe smallpox. It was a milder version of the disease. The Salk polio vaccine gave you dead viruses that trained the immune system to handle live ones. But I think most vaccines give you a mild case that develops the immune response for a severe case.

    So I think, from the recent graphs of increasing "cases" but not the same spike in deaths or hospitalizations that we saw in the spring, that we are seeing a mild infection as an accident, rather than by design. It would seem to be the cheapest and fastest way out of this; too bad we are getting more cases now as light is low in the Northern Hemisphere and concomitantly Vitamin D.

    The effect we are seeing is this: https://www.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/cases-vs-deaths_0.png?itok=ehqEBNlU

  35. @Jedi Night
    @Dissident

    Purely anecdotal, but in the school district where my padawan attend, there is a huge group of normies who see the massive negative impact on their own children's lives by the lockdown. A huge ground swell pushed for schools to open.

    It's also becoming a demonstrable joke as we see the scores of students absent for a few days with covid and laughing it off when they come back, recounting their experience of a couple days of sniffles.

    Being stuck at home all day every day for months with your kids is a type of daily personal torture that motivates people to vote if there is a clear referendum.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    but in the school district where my padawan attend

    I’ve never seen a Star Wars and that still made me LOL when I read it and then looked at your handle.

    • Agree: Dissident
  36. @Audacious Epigone
    @TomSchmidt

    Don't know re: viral load. I've heard the same.

    Isn't that what a vaccine is supposed to do? Were chicken pox parties limited in exposure, or is that more of a binary affliction?

    Replies: @TomSchmidt

    It appears to be the case that viral load matters in severity of infection. I posted another link to my first reply on that.

    The original vaccine gave you cowpox, which prevented you from getting the more severe smallpox. It was a milder version of the disease. The Salk polio vaccine gave you dead viruses that trained the immune system to handle live ones. But I think most vaccines give you a mild case that develops the immune response for a severe case.

    So I think, from the recent graphs of increasing “cases” but not the same spike in deaths or hospitalizations that we saw in the spring, that we are seeing a mild infection as an accident, rather than by design. It would seem to be the cheapest and fastest way out of this; too bad we are getting more cases now as light is low in the Northern Hemisphere and concomitantly Vitamin D.

    The effect we are seeing is this:

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