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Support for Affirmative Action Among Whites by Class and Political Orientation
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Commenter Twinkie disputes the assertion that the rapid increase among liberal whites in support for preferential job treatment for blacks at the expense of whites is necessarily indicative of ethnomasochism. White elites tend to be liberal. They compete with Asians and with high-achieving whites from working and middle class (and relatively conservative) backgrounds. They don’t compete with blacks or Hispanics, so they aren’t hurt by pro-black affirmative action like Asians and white plebs are.

My initial reaction was to point out the obvious–even though many white elites are liberal, most white liberals are not elites. But as Twinkie insinuates, it is middle and upper class white liberals who are extraordinarily supportive of black preferential treatment. Liberal whites of more modest means don’t much care for it. The following graph shows support by class and by political orientation among non-Hispanic whites during The Great Awokening:

In Red State Blue State Rich State Poor State, professor and statistician Andrew Gelman pointed out that the culture war was primarily a conflict between local elites in red states and cosmopolitan elites in blue states (see my exchange with him about a potential confounding variable his work overlooked here).

The book was written in mid-2008, before Barack Obama’s trouncing of the late John McCain, so he should be cut some slack for failing to anticipate the largest fissures in the cultural landscape of 2019 America. He was writing about a different country in a different era.

And besides, he wasn’t all wrong. To the contrary, his insight is spot on in the context of this post. The gulf between white leftist elites and white conservative elites is enormous. Even though the upper class sample is small (211), the distinctions are clearly sharp.

GSS variables used: AFFRMACT(1-2)(3-4), RACECEN1(1), HISPANIC(1), YEAR(2012-2018), CLASS

 
• Category: Culture/Society, Economics, Ideology • Tags: Affirmative action, GSS 
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  1. So clearly the “conservative” Koch Brothers must represent a top missing quintile where things go very very wrong. And what’s up with the lower and working class conservative whites?

    • Replies: @Triumph104
    @James Bowery

    If you had one of the eight lowest-paying jobs in America, would you care if your shift leader, who makes 50 cents more an hour, was an affirmative-action hire? Remember, half of whites are women and white women receive affirmative action in many cases.


    1. Food preparation and serving workers, including fast food.
    2. Dishwashers.
    3. Cashiers.
    4. Hosts and hostesses.
    5. Amusement park attendants.
    6. Movie theater ushers, ticket takers.
    7. Farm workers.
    8. Personal and home care aides.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/38168029/ns/business-careers/t/lowest-paying-jobs-america/#.XZXIiW5uJjo
     
    , @Realist
    @James Bowery


    And what’s up with the lower and working class conservative whites?
     
    They're stupid.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @James Bowery


    And what’s up with the lower and working class conservative whites?
     
    For the working class, the number IS pretty damn low, James, and the rest are, well, see Realist's reply.

    For the lower class, it must include lots of people on government benefits and/or who are not working. They've never experienced losing a good job opportunity or promotion due to the unfair BS of AA. Why should they care? Look at all 3 lower class numbers, too - that could represent people that have never worked for a living. Additionally, if you depend on the US Gov't for your livelihood you tend to be in favor of stuff it does, no matter how stupid or unfair.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    , @Mike P.
    @James Bowery

    There might be an issue with some people in those groups understanding the question, frankly.

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @James Bowery

    I'm no expert on the Kochs, but I don't think they support affirmative action. Open borders? Of course. But not racial preferences in hiring/promotion.

    Replies: @Nico, @Feryl

  2. @James Bowery
    So clearly the "conservative" Koch Brothers must represent a top missing quintile where things go very very wrong. And what's up with the lower and working class conservative whites?

    Replies: @Triumph104, @Realist, @Achmed E. Newman, @Mike P., @Audacious Epigone

    If you had one of the eight lowest-paying jobs in America, would you care if your shift leader, who makes 50 cents more an hour, was an affirmative-action hire? Remember, half of whites are women and white women receive affirmative action in many cases.

    1. Food preparation and serving workers, including fast food.
    2. Dishwashers.
    3. Cashiers.
    4. Hosts and hostesses.
    5. Amusement park attendants.
    6. Movie theater ushers, ticket takers.
    7. Farm workers.
    8. Personal and home care aides.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/38168029/ns/business-careers/t/lowest-paying-jobs-america/#.XZXIiW5uJjo

  3. anon[158] • Disclaimer says:

    My theory for the Great Awokening:

    Upper-class liberal whites are seeking to placate the rising demographic tide of POC least they become their targets. Basically, they either placate them with economic crumbs or they placate their racial animus with incendiary, racially charged news stories blaming all POC problems / failures on “The Other” — police shootings, institutional bias, racism, white supremacy, etc. For example, senator Kamala Harris was long the servant of California’s white liberal elite; she reveled in prosecuting the poor minorities white liberals secretly fear and go to great lengths to avoid. I would guess her plan to give blacks $100 billion dollars is actually not so significant when you look at it closely. Averaged over 10 years, as these plans often are, that comes out to less than one-sixth of the Department of Education’s annual budget; it’s less than half of NASA’s annual budget. Crumbs. Reparations or a UBI would cost a lot more, and most of it would be paid for by the upper-class, so they throw out bread crumbs to divert POC attention away from that option. Although, I’d have to take a closer look at her plan to confirm this suspicion.

    People forget that it was common thought post 2012 that the GOP couldn’t win any more elections due to demographic change. That’s why the GOP pushed amnesty in the aftermath of Romney’s defeat. It’s why Ted Cruz went to the border with Glenn Beck to hand out toys to illegal alien border crossers. The sentiment was explicit on election night 2016 when several network news anchors blatantly suggested demographics would do Trump in. TYT hosts repeated the same mantra: Trump insulted the new coalition of the fringes and now he couldn’t win; they went into a racist, anti-white meltdown immediately after he was declared the winner. That’s why many in NY, DC, and LA were so shocked. They didn’t think it was possible for him to win.

    Obama’s “the right side of history” mantra was taken as an implied threat by many upper-class liberals: get on the right side least you end up on the wrong side of the new boss in town. Thus, the Great Awokening — a purity spiral of signaling that you’re on the winning side of a low-level race war. Personally, I don’t think this is just ethnomasochism on the part of white upper-class liberals. Support for Affirmative Action and extreme wokeness is something akin to paying protection money. They think they’ll be immune in the coming crisis if they signal they’re on the new boss’s side against the hated middle-class and poor white demographics.

    • Agree: Rosie
    • Replies: @indocon
    @anon

    I wonder how that feeling in urban upper-class whites would change once they realize that exurban/rural whites are not going to be suppressed and are not going anywhere and don't care for them, while POC's living right next to them are starting to act really really bad in a way that affects their daily lives?

    Replies: @216, @krustykurmudgeon

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @anon

    Interesting.

    Very pithily, it's the "eat me last" strategy.

  4. @James Bowery
    So clearly the "conservative" Koch Brothers must represent a top missing quintile where things go very very wrong. And what's up with the lower and working class conservative whites?

    Replies: @Triumph104, @Realist, @Achmed E. Newman, @Mike P., @Audacious Epigone

    And what’s up with the lower and working class conservative whites?

    They’re stupid.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Realist

    I assume underclass whites who aren't rural tend to live in areas that are heavily black (and/or Hispanic). We think of "wiggers" as affluent suburban white kids, but it's more characteristic of poor white kids from mixed underclass neighborhoods. As such, they probably tend to subconsciously adopt black views to some extent.

    Replies: @216, @Realist, @Anonymous, @Polar

  5. The “pathological altruism” thesis is and has always been bunk. There is nothing whatsoever “altruistic” about the white liberal, the most venal, destructive, narcissistic, mendacious, hypocritical, defective and generally vile creature to slither upon the Earth.

    • Replies: @Bill
    @L Woods

    It's good rhetoric, though, if you are a WN. It's a humble-brag. It provides prodigals a face-saving way to come home: I guess I was just too altruistic.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    , @216
    @L Woods

    Disagree

    Liberals, while not that generous on an individual level, are willing to both pay higher taxes, and pay more for "ethically sourced" products.

    And fundamentally, they are willing to make themselves a permanent ethnic minority in every single European and European-descended nation-state; as recompense for centuries of colonialism.

    Typical cons don't do this, "Buy American" is mostly a dead letter. Many cons will do community service as part of church groups, but Dissidents tend to view this with cynical disdain. It's unheard of outside of LDS for cons to help each other out to have more children.

  6. “They don’t compete with blacks or Hispanics, so they aren’t hurt by pro-black affirmative action like Asians and white plebs are.”

    In order to give newer readers some perspective, perhaps it should be disclosed that Twinkie is an East Asian immigrant married to white woman living in an upper class white neighborhood. He himself has no connection to or understanding of working class whites, other than the ones who don’t lie back and welcome their replacement are white nationalist supremacist racists!

    So his assertion that white liberals aren’t ethnomasochistic because they aren’t negatively affected by their own altruism assumes that they don’t know how AA hurts middle class and lower whites, which I disagree with. I believe they know lower class whites are getting the shaft, and I think they welcome it. for evidence of this, all you have to do is, you know, listen to them speak on the issue. Hence, the ethnomasochism is a valid diagnosis.

    • Replies: @LoutishAngloQuebecker
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Twinkie always comes out to exclaim how "based" and "redpilled" he is. Like all asians he suffers from an inferiority complex; thus is constantly trying to prove himself and defend asians.

    Here's the truth: white folks need to look out for white folks. We don't even need to look at an asian man, so self hating he race mixed.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    , @iffen
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    ethnomasochism is a valid diagnosis.

    Wouldn't the pain and suffering have to be endured by "their" group for it to be masochistic? They are not suffering any pain. And they certainly don't consider people such as you as part of their group. If you are suffering and they are not it comes closer to being sadism rather than masochism.

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    And so disclosed it now is!

    I do think Twinkie knows many poor, rural Appalachian whites, though.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  7. @James Bowery
    So clearly the "conservative" Koch Brothers must represent a top missing quintile where things go very very wrong. And what's up with the lower and working class conservative whites?

    Replies: @Triumph104, @Realist, @Achmed E. Newman, @Mike P., @Audacious Epigone

    And what’s up with the lower and working class conservative whites?

    For the working class, the number IS pretty damn low, James, and the rest are, well, see Realist’s reply.

    For the lower class, it must include lots of people on government benefits and/or who are not working. They’ve never experienced losing a good job opportunity or promotion due to the unfair BS of AA. Why should they care? Look at all 3 lower class numbers, too – that could represent people that have never worked for a living. Additionally, if you depend on the US Gov’t for your livelihood you tend to be in favor of stuff it does, no matter how stupid or unfair.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Yeah, there is probably some understandable amount of instinctive anti-libertarian bias among the lower classes.

  8. @MikeatMikedotMike
    "They don’t compete with blacks or Hispanics, so they aren’t hurt by pro-black affirmative action like Asians and white plebs are."

    In order to give newer readers some perspective, perhaps it should be disclosed that Twinkie is an East Asian immigrant married to white woman living in an upper class white neighborhood. He himself has no connection to or understanding of working class whites, other than the ones who don't lie back and welcome their replacement are white nationalist supremacist racists!

    So his assertion that white liberals aren't ethnomasochistic because they aren't negatively affected by their own altruism assumes that they don't know how AA hurts middle class and lower whites, which I disagree with. I believe they know lower class whites are getting the shaft, and I think they welcome it. for evidence of this, all you have to do is, you know, listen to them speak on the issue. Hence, the ethnomasochism is a valid diagnosis.

    Replies: @LoutishAngloQuebecker, @iffen, @Audacious Epigone

    Twinkie always comes out to exclaim how “based” and “redpilled” he is. Like all asians he suffers from an inferiority complex; thus is constantly trying to prove himself and defend asians.

    Here’s the truth: white folks need to look out for white folks. We don’t even need to look at an asian man, so self hating he race mixed.

    • Troll: 216
    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @LoutishAngloQuebecker

    Does a father need to look out for his own children?

    And it's hard to argue that someone who has several children is "self hating".

  9. The most interesting part of the graph is the responses of the working class and lower class whites.

    Its pretty clear if the GOP mitigates their class warfare policies and the Democrats keep up the intersectionality/white privilege bullshit, you could push most of the whites, (liberal, moderate or conservative) into the GOP.

    • Agree: Mark G.
    • Replies: @WorkingClass
    @Tulip

    I'm a white working class Deplorable. I'm a union man. But I can't be a white Democrat.

    I'm not a Republican. For that the GOP would have to become the party of the working class. It wouldn't be hard to do. The working class needs work and wages not war and welfare. Taylor your policies and your rhetoric accordingly and you will have all the voters you will ever need.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

  10. @James Bowery
    So clearly the "conservative" Koch Brothers must represent a top missing quintile where things go very very wrong. And what's up with the lower and working class conservative whites?

    Replies: @Triumph104, @Realist, @Achmed E. Newman, @Mike P., @Audacious Epigone

    There might be an issue with some people in those groups understanding the question, frankly.

  11. Anti-White Race Slots sounds more sinister than affirmative action.

    Affirmative action sounds like a Lifetime buddy road trip broad movie starring Valerie Bertinelli and Meredith Baxter Birney.

    I blame George Orwell for giving the White upper middle class globalizers and the White Plutocrat Globalizers the idea to use globalization and financialization and mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration and anti-White race slots as demographic weapons to attack and destroy lower middle class Whites and regular middle class Whites. I also blame the serpent and the apple and Adam for not ignoring Eve’s offer of an apple.

    George Orwell said that Big Brother didn’t have to bother much with the proletarians because all they wanted was some ale and a job that was physical and some more ale and some neighborhood drama and some sports and gambling and the like and they were content. Big Brother had to contend with the intellectuals like Winston Smith.

    The current White proletarians can be won over to a new Sam Francis type political party with a call to remove 50 or 60 million foreigners in the USA to greatly improve the living standards of the proles. Don’t call them proles.

    Proles will also respond positively to a new Sam Francis type political party that EXPLICITLY advances the interests of White Americans as Whites.

    WHITE CORE AMERICA RISING!

  12. @L Woods
    The "pathological altruism" thesis is and has always been bunk. There is nothing whatsoever "altruistic" about the white liberal, the most venal, destructive, narcissistic, mendacious, hypocritical, defective and generally vile creature to slither upon the Earth.

    Replies: @Bill, @216

    It’s good rhetoric, though, if you are a WN. It’s a humble-brag. It provides prodigals a face-saving way to come home: I guess I was just too altruistic.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Bill

    "Leapfrogging loyalties" (Steve Sailer's term) and "runaway universalism" (Jayman's term) are both reasonable--arguably better--substitutes. But pathological altruism has the highest name recognition, so that's the phrase I tend to use.

  13. Aren’t IQ & schooling potential confounds here? As I recall (dimly), higher IQ and more schooled people tend to be more extreme in their views.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Bill

    They also tend to be higher in social class!

    , @Jay Fink
    @Bill

    I think part of this is because they have views to begin with. A lot of lower socioeconomic people are unfamiliar with and not interested in various candidates or issues.

  14. @MikeatMikedotMike
    "They don’t compete with blacks or Hispanics, so they aren’t hurt by pro-black affirmative action like Asians and white plebs are."

    In order to give newer readers some perspective, perhaps it should be disclosed that Twinkie is an East Asian immigrant married to white woman living in an upper class white neighborhood. He himself has no connection to or understanding of working class whites, other than the ones who don't lie back and welcome their replacement are white nationalist supremacist racists!

    So his assertion that white liberals aren't ethnomasochistic because they aren't negatively affected by their own altruism assumes that they don't know how AA hurts middle class and lower whites, which I disagree with. I believe they know lower class whites are getting the shaft, and I think they welcome it. for evidence of this, all you have to do is, you know, listen to them speak on the issue. Hence, the ethnomasochism is a valid diagnosis.

    Replies: @LoutishAngloQuebecker, @iffen, @Audacious Epigone

    ethnomasochism is a valid diagnosis.

    Wouldn’t the pain and suffering have to be endured by “their” group for it to be masochistic? They are not suffering any pain. And they certainly don’t consider people such as you as part of their group. If you are suffering and they are not it comes closer to being sadism rather than masochism.

  15. Can you do it for university education, perhaps filtered by age as well? My theory being exposure to higher education, especially in recent years, is driving it.

  16. @James Bowery
    So clearly the "conservative" Koch Brothers must represent a top missing quintile where things go very very wrong. And what's up with the lower and working class conservative whites?

    Replies: @Triumph104, @Realist, @Achmed E. Newman, @Mike P., @Audacious Epigone

    I’m no expert on the Kochs, but I don’t think they support affirmative action. Open borders? Of course. But not racial preferences in hiring/promotion.

    • Replies: @Nico
    @Audacious Epigone


    I’m no expert on the Kochs, but I don’t think they support affirmative action. Open borders? Of course. But not racial preferences in hiring/promotion.
     
    Since open borders results in the predictable policies of the voting tendencies of the interested demographics, libertarians who say they support open borders but not affirmative action or any other socialist or intersectionalist garbage are one of three things:

    1. Liars who should have their tongues cut out;
    2. Idiots whom no one should listen to or put in charge of anything;
    3. Liars who should have their tongues cut out AND traitors who should subsequently have their tongueless heads guillotined off.
    , @Feryl
    @Audacious Epigone

    Corporate America has never strongly opposed affirmative action, diversity, multi-culturalism, or feminism. They want Open Borders, off-shoring of manufacturing to the 2nd or 3rd world, and (relatively) low taxes on rich people, and a strong welfare state to subsidize the many less skilled people who no longer can find decent paying or unionized private sector jobs. That's what neo-liberalism has given us, in the post-New Deal era.

    Cucks blame "the Left" for this, event though the GOP won the presidency in 1968,1972,1980,1984,1988,2000, 2004, and 2016 (and neo-lib New Deal dismantling Democrats won in 1992, 1996, 2004, and 2008).....Thereby proving that the American public disliked the New Left over-reach of the late 60's, and would've complied with whatever the GOP was offering, so long as riots and crazy hippies were suppressed. Nixon was able to continue the New Deal while doing some things to reassure the public that the radicals and hippies were not going to steer society in the wrong direction. But ultimately the GOP abdicated it's duty to attack "light" forms of New Leftism (like the mass entry of women into the workforce, or affirmative action).....Therefore setting the stage for encroaching PC and the continuing codification of once radical ideas as "normal", like gay marriage getting almost no criticism from the modern GOP even though Obama (!) once opposed it in the early 2000's. Similarly, many Democrats and labor activists in the 1960's-mid 1990's heavily criticized loose immigration policies (in the 1930's-1950's, there was a bi-partisan consensus to keep immigration low) while the GOP of that era often spun yarns about "hard working" immigrants being the backbone of America...Hell, even TV sitcoms made fun of the 1990 law that created the immigration lottery as self-evidently stupid and inexplicable, being such a sign of empire decadence.

    The problem with blaming The Left is that the Right didn't even try to stop the then (in the 1970's) radical practice of, for example, cities tolerating gay bathouses that openly used salacious advertisements to excite and attract perverts Why wasn't the corporate business lobby (obviously they leaned way to the Right in the 1970's) defending the white guys who sued businesses that used racial preferences on behalf of non-whites? The unwillingness of the business lobby to attack affirmative action in the 1970's-1990's paved the way for a lot of moronic precedents being set (like the infamous "disparate impact" meme becoming standard issue legalese).

    And you have to love the cucks who claim that nothing could be done because "someone" won't let it happen. Uh, you have to actually try first, and even if you are not immediately successful, keep trying. Until then, stop whining that "they" won't let you win. Why have any affection or respect for the "conservative" lobbies who are do-nothing scam artists for the most part? They don't deserve your money or your votes. At best they will only slightly slow down what is going to happen to us until we finally get a better choice...If we ever do.

    Let's also not forget that by letting "slight" things happen (like gory video games being freely available to children), The Right was of course encouraging even bigger atrocities to come down the pike. For example, since The (establishment) Right over the last 50 years has been so largely disinterested in limiting immigration, they trod upon the path that would lead to calls for the abolition of borders altogether. The Right has largely not been stupid enough to admit in public that most of their biggest donors for decades wanted Open Borders, yet here they are, scam artists as usual, pretending that it's "the Left's" fault that we can't have secure borders. Same old, same old. And when Trump comes along and tries to upend neo-liberalism, his own party is doing a disgraceful job of defending him. And were Trump to get evicted, or primaried, no doubt the next GOP candidate would be spineless cuck stuck in 1994. Tucker Carlson has said that his affluent neighbors all despise Trump, and after 50 years of GOP ideological dominance we are firmly in an era of elitism that will make it very difficult for any populist reformer.

  17. @Realist
    @James Bowery


    And what’s up with the lower and working class conservative whites?
     
    They're stupid.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    I assume underclass whites who aren’t rural tend to live in areas that are heavily black (and/or Hispanic). We think of “wiggers” as affluent suburban white kids, but it’s more characteristic of poor white kids from mixed underclass neighborhoods. As such, they probably tend to subconsciously adopt black views to some extent.

    • Replies: @216
    @Audacious Epigone

    http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/022469.html

    , @Realist
    @Audacious Epigone

    Quite possible.

    , @Anonymous
    @Audacious Epigone

    Yes. Actual wiggers are low IQ prole whites who for some reason choose to live in cities instead of the natural rural habitat of white proles. Fake wiggers are middle class, IQ 100 white teen boys. My high school was full of these types: sagging their pants like they were in prison, blasting rap music from their cars, and wearing bling bought using their allowance.

    , @Polar
    @Audacious Epigone

    Look at the chart. The lower class shows almost no ideological differences. Only when they start making some money do they start departing from reality.

    I very much doubt wiggers identity as liberals since most blacks don't. Those in the working class bar are probably work study, Starbucks barista, etc that surround themselves with other whites often in college towns where they have the luxury of hypocritically calling everyone else racist for wanting to live in circles as white as theirs.

  18. @MikeatMikedotMike
    "They don’t compete with blacks or Hispanics, so they aren’t hurt by pro-black affirmative action like Asians and white plebs are."

    In order to give newer readers some perspective, perhaps it should be disclosed that Twinkie is an East Asian immigrant married to white woman living in an upper class white neighborhood. He himself has no connection to or understanding of working class whites, other than the ones who don't lie back and welcome their replacement are white nationalist supremacist racists!

    So his assertion that white liberals aren't ethnomasochistic because they aren't negatively affected by their own altruism assumes that they don't know how AA hurts middle class and lower whites, which I disagree with. I believe they know lower class whites are getting the shaft, and I think they welcome it. for evidence of this, all you have to do is, you know, listen to them speak on the issue. Hence, the ethnomasochism is a valid diagnosis.

    Replies: @LoutishAngloQuebecker, @iffen, @Audacious Epigone

    And so disclosed it now is!

    I do think Twinkie knows many poor, rural Appalachian whites, though.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Audacious Epigone


    And so disclosed it now is!
     
    That "disclosure" of his reads "Because I don't like him, you all should dislike him too!"

    I do think Twinkie knows many poor, rural Appalachian whites, though.
     
    I stopped writing about this, because it's futile, but I wish these supposed pro-white whites would stop wasting time online and do something for their fellow whites in distress in the real world.

    Some of my parishioners and I, along with my older boys, used to volunteer to build homes for very low income and homeless people in West Virginia (almost all of whom were whites). There are numerous programs of this type, in which people can participate. Or they can start their own.

    Instead, all these supposed pro-white advocates are either attention-whoring peacocks like Richard Spencer or trolls who do nothing productive but throw insults and ad hominem online and advocate for racial violence from the safety of their computers.

    In any case, thank you for investigating (and validating!) my intuition and observations. Obviously my opinions won't always be supported by statistics, but I am glad to know that in this case it was. I always appreciate people who keep me honest intellectually.

    Replies: @iffen, @Oldtradesman, @Audacious Epigone

  19. @Achmed E. Newman
    @James Bowery


    And what’s up with the lower and working class conservative whites?
     
    For the working class, the number IS pretty damn low, James, and the rest are, well, see Realist's reply.

    For the lower class, it must include lots of people on government benefits and/or who are not working. They've never experienced losing a good job opportunity or promotion due to the unfair BS of AA. Why should they care? Look at all 3 lower class numbers, too - that could represent people that have never worked for a living. Additionally, if you depend on the US Gov't for your livelihood you tend to be in favor of stuff it does, no matter how stupid or unfair.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    Yeah, there is probably some understandable amount of instinctive anti-libertarian bias among the lower classes.

  20. @LoutishAngloQuebecker
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Twinkie always comes out to exclaim how "based" and "redpilled" he is. Like all asians he suffers from an inferiority complex; thus is constantly trying to prove himself and defend asians.

    Here's the truth: white folks need to look out for white folks. We don't even need to look at an asian man, so self hating he race mixed.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    Does a father need to look out for his own children?

    And it’s hard to argue that someone who has several children is “self hating”.

  21. @Bill
    @L Woods

    It's good rhetoric, though, if you are a WN. It's a humble-brag. It provides prodigals a face-saving way to come home: I guess I was just too altruistic.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    “Leapfrogging loyalties” (Steve Sailer’s term) and “runaway universalism” (Jayman’s term) are both reasonable–arguably better–substitutes. But pathological altruism has the highest name recognition, so that’s the phrase I tend to use.

  22. @Bill
    Aren't IQ & schooling potential confounds here? As I recall (dimly), higher IQ and more schooled people tend to be more extreme in their views.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @Jay Fink

    They also tend to be higher in social class!

  23. @Bill
    Aren't IQ & schooling potential confounds here? As I recall (dimly), higher IQ and more schooled people tend to be more extreme in their views.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @Jay Fink

    I think part of this is because they have views to begin with. A lot of lower socioeconomic people are unfamiliar with and not interested in various candidates or issues.

  24. (EliteCommInc.)

    Both articles on this issue pose interesting thoughts. But as attending to my word, I am withholding comment.

    Laugh . . . i am sure most are delighted.

  25. @Audacious Epigone
    @James Bowery

    I'm no expert on the Kochs, but I don't think they support affirmative action. Open borders? Of course. But not racial preferences in hiring/promotion.

    Replies: @Nico, @Feryl

    I’m no expert on the Kochs, but I don’t think they support affirmative action. Open borders? Of course. But not racial preferences in hiring/promotion.

    Since open borders results in the predictable policies of the voting tendencies of the interested demographics, libertarians who say they support open borders but not affirmative action or any other socialist or intersectionalist garbage are one of three things:

    1. Liars who should have their tongues cut out;
    2. Idiots whom no one should listen to or put in charge of anything;
    3. Liars who should have their tongues cut out AND traitors who should subsequently have their tongueless heads guillotined off.

  26. @Audacious Epigone
    @Realist

    I assume underclass whites who aren't rural tend to live in areas that are heavily black (and/or Hispanic). We think of "wiggers" as affluent suburban white kids, but it's more characteristic of poor white kids from mixed underclass neighborhoods. As such, they probably tend to subconsciously adopt black views to some extent.

    Replies: @216, @Realist, @Anonymous, @Polar

  27. @anon
    My theory for the Great Awokening:

    Upper-class liberal whites are seeking to placate the rising demographic tide of POC least they become their targets. Basically, they either placate them with economic crumbs or they placate their racial animus with incendiary, racially charged news stories blaming all POC problems / failures on "The Other" -- police shootings, institutional bias, racism, white supremacy, etc. For example, senator Kamala Harris was long the servant of California's white liberal elite; she reveled in prosecuting the poor minorities white liberals secretly fear and go to great lengths to avoid. I would guess her plan to give blacks $100 billion dollars is actually not so significant when you look at it closely. Averaged over 10 years, as these plans often are, that comes out to less than one-sixth of the Department of Education's annual budget; it's less than half of NASA's annual budget. Crumbs. Reparations or a UBI would cost a lot more, and most of it would be paid for by the upper-class, so they throw out bread crumbs to divert POC attention away from that option. Although, I'd have to take a closer look at her plan to confirm this suspicion.

    People forget that it was common thought post 2012 that the GOP couldn't win any more elections due to demographic change. That's why the GOP pushed amnesty in the aftermath of Romney's defeat. It's why Ted Cruz went to the border with Glenn Beck to hand out toys to illegal alien border crossers. The sentiment was explicit on election night 2016 when several network news anchors blatantly suggested demographics would do Trump in. TYT hosts repeated the same mantra: Trump insulted the new coalition of the fringes and now he couldn't win; they went into a racist, anti-white meltdown immediately after he was declared the winner. That's why many in NY, DC, and LA were so shocked. They didn't think it was possible for him to win.

    Obama's "the right side of history" mantra was taken as an implied threat by many upper-class liberals: get on the right side least you end up on the wrong side of the new boss in town. Thus, the Great Awokening -- a purity spiral of signaling that you're on the winning side of a low-level race war. Personally, I don't think this is just ethnomasochism on the part of white upper-class liberals. Support for Affirmative Action and extreme wokeness is something akin to paying protection money. They think they'll be immune in the coming crisis if they signal they're on the new boss's side against the hated middle-class and poor white demographics.

    Replies: @indocon, @Audacious Epigone

    I wonder how that feeling in urban upper-class whites would change once they realize that exurban/rural whites are not going to be suppressed and are not going anywhere and don’t care for them, while POC’s living right next to them are starting to act really really bad in a way that affects their daily lives?

    • Replies: @216
    @indocon


    that exurban/rural whites are not going to be suppressed and are not going anywhere and don’t care for them
     
    That remains to be seen. I'm fond of #NotYourFreikorps; but the typical conservative has easily acclimated to "gay rights as a fundamental American value". Its not hard to imagine that in the event of Trump losing, most cons will cuck so fast it will make your head spin. Along with middle class striving, cons greatly value obidience to authority regardless of who or what it is.

    In the event of a Warren Occupation gun grab, most Millennial and Zed conservatives are not going to violently resist the government. Unlike in the 1990s, when large numbers of Vietnam and Desert Storm vets were capable of fighting (along with some WW2/Korea vets as cadre); the typical Iraq/Afghanistan veteran (proportionally less compared to earlier wars) has a higher loyalty to the system because most were genuine volunteers.

    Crime, at least in the US, is not on the rise; and might be technologically declining. Labor unions, in spite of an increasingly pro-union public; are not organizing large numbers of precariat. Obesity is higher than ever, particularly with PeeOhCee. This is in spite of a logical leftist response that obestiy and food waste is causing climate change and starvation. But the obese are an important leftist voting bloc.

    Replies: @Feryl, @Audacious Epigone

    , @krustykurmudgeon
    @indocon

    "exurban/rural whites are not going to be suppressed and are not going anywhere". They may not be going anywhere but once they can't decide elections - it means the left is going to get brazen. The state of virginia for example is a cycle or two away to where the rural areas won't be needed for democrats to win.

  28. @L Woods
    The "pathological altruism" thesis is and has always been bunk. There is nothing whatsoever "altruistic" about the white liberal, the most venal, destructive, narcissistic, mendacious, hypocritical, defective and generally vile creature to slither upon the Earth.

    Replies: @Bill, @216

    Disagree

    Liberals, while not that generous on an individual level, are willing to both pay higher taxes, and pay more for “ethically sourced” products.

    And fundamentally, they are willing to make themselves a permanent ethnic minority in every single European and European-descended nation-state; as recompense for centuries of colonialism.

    Typical cons don’t do this, “Buy American” is mostly a dead letter. Many cons will do community service as part of church groups, but Dissidents tend to view this with cynical disdain. It’s unheard of outside of LDS for cons to help each other out to have more children.

  29. @indocon
    @anon

    I wonder how that feeling in urban upper-class whites would change once they realize that exurban/rural whites are not going to be suppressed and are not going anywhere and don't care for them, while POC's living right next to them are starting to act really really bad in a way that affects their daily lives?

    Replies: @216, @krustykurmudgeon

    that exurban/rural whites are not going to be suppressed and are not going anywhere and don’t care for them

    That remains to be seen. I’m fond of #NotYourFreikorps; but the typical conservative has easily acclimated to “gay rights as a fundamental American value”. Its not hard to imagine that in the event of Trump losing, most cons will cuck so fast it will make your head spin. Along with middle class striving, cons greatly value obidience to authority regardless of who or what it is.

    In the event of a Warren Occupation gun grab, most Millennial and Zed conservatives are not going to violently resist the government. Unlike in the 1990s, when large numbers of Vietnam and Desert Storm vets were capable of fighting (along with some WW2/Korea vets as cadre); the typical Iraq/Afghanistan veteran (proportionally less compared to earlier wars) has a higher loyalty to the system because most were genuine volunteers.

    Crime, at least in the US, is not on the rise; and might be technologically declining. Labor unions, in spite of an increasingly pro-union public; are not organizing large numbers of precariat. Obesity is higher than ever, particularly with PeeOhCee. This is in spite of a logical leftist response that obestiy and food waste is causing climate change and starvation. But the obese are an important leftist voting bloc.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    @216

    "That remains to be seen. I’m fond of #NotYourFreikorps; but the typical conservative has easily acclimated to “gay rights as a fundamental American value”. Its not hard to imagine that in the event of Trump losing, most cons will cuck so fast it will make your head spin. Along with middle class striving, cons greatly value obidience to authority regardless of who or what it is."

    The rhetorical stance of most conservatives, since the mid 1970's, has gone something like this:

    1) It's the Left's fault that something is a problem
    2) A large chunk of the public is stupid, or corrupt, for not voting GOP every single election
    3) "They" won't let us win
    4) I may have an intellectual or moral reservation about something that's obviously weird or dangerous (or....non-traditional), but I can't seem to find the resources or manpower to do anything about it, so hey, I guess we just have to deal with it.

    Glibness, excuses, and elitism. Other than token efforts to fight crime and drug use (which is the least a ruling class can do, after all), and some action taken to defend gun owners and limit abortions, the Right has mostly been full of crap and lazy for the last 50 years. Even though, as election results indicate, for the last 50 years middle aged and elderly white people largely are willing to give the GOP the benefit of the doubt in whatever it is they pursue. Young people don't vote, and Left wing culture warriors in New York and on the West Coast (who are not wholesome New Deal liberals) do not speak for the cultural conservatives and moderates found in most parts of America.

    WRT "obedience", well you are getting at something important: In the New Deal era, "fairness" was prized above all else. That's why people back then weren't as greedy or corrupt. But in the neo-lib era, conservatives still value order and policy stability, even when the system and it's leaders are rotten and deserved to be skinned alive.

    Replies: @216

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @216

    The Tea Party was easily co-opted, but it was the closest to a genuine populist rightist uprising in my lifetime, and it was basically in response to Obama, wasn't it?

    If Warren wins the nomination and the presidency, it becomes crucial that the coming stock market collapse occurs after she is in office (or at least after she is elected).

    People are not economically sophisticated. They will largely fall for the seemingly self-evident narrative that a socialist president killed the economy.

    This is not going to be like 2008, where the air simply comes out of asset prices, unemployment hops up a few points, and then things return to normal. Serious inflation has occurred. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. It's just that the inflation has all gone into financial assets, which has allowed companies to sell things at no--often even negative--profit margin. Yet still their stock valuations increase and their bond rates remain low.

    The Fed is ~one year out from 0% interest rates. After that, asset prices will plunge and inflation will spread to the rest of the economy. A gallon of milk will cost upwards of $10. It's not just the affluent investor class that will feel the pain.

    Replies: @216, @Achmed E. Newman, @Feryl, @Twinkie, @Mark G.

  30. @Audacious Epigone
    @Realist

    I assume underclass whites who aren't rural tend to live in areas that are heavily black (and/or Hispanic). We think of "wiggers" as affluent suburban white kids, but it's more characteristic of poor white kids from mixed underclass neighborhoods. As such, they probably tend to subconsciously adopt black views to some extent.

    Replies: @216, @Realist, @Anonymous, @Polar

    Quite possible.

  31. o/t

    Woke

    Sports Illustrated has laid off half of its staff

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/sports-illustrated-has-laid-off-half-of-its-staff/ar-AAIfth6?ocid=spartanntp

    For those that may have forgotten, not that long ago the left was engaged in a freakout that the Koch Bros were going to buy out Time and Sports Illustrated.

    In a world where they own every single R1 University, they freaked out about some legacy brand names being owned by Anti-Trump libertarians.

  32. Anonymous[217] • Disclaimer says:
    @Audacious Epigone
    @Realist

    I assume underclass whites who aren't rural tend to live in areas that are heavily black (and/or Hispanic). We think of "wiggers" as affluent suburban white kids, but it's more characteristic of poor white kids from mixed underclass neighborhoods. As such, they probably tend to subconsciously adopt black views to some extent.

    Replies: @216, @Realist, @Anonymous, @Polar

    Yes. Actual wiggers are low IQ prole whites who for some reason choose to live in cities instead of the natural rural habitat of white proles. Fake wiggers are middle class, IQ 100 white teen boys. My high school was full of these types: sagging their pants like they were in prison, blasting rap music from their cars, and wearing bling bought using their allowance.

  33. @Audacious Epigone
    @James Bowery

    I'm no expert on the Kochs, but I don't think they support affirmative action. Open borders? Of course. But not racial preferences in hiring/promotion.

    Replies: @Nico, @Feryl

    Corporate America has never strongly opposed affirmative action, diversity, multi-culturalism, or feminism. They want Open Borders, off-shoring of manufacturing to the 2nd or 3rd world, and (relatively) low taxes on rich people, and a strong welfare state to subsidize the many less skilled people who no longer can find decent paying or unionized private sector jobs. That’s what neo-liberalism has given us, in the post-New Deal era.

    Cucks blame “the Left” for this, event though the GOP won the presidency in 1968,1972,1980,1984,1988,2000, 2004, and 2016 (and neo-lib New Deal dismantling Democrats won in 1992, 1996, 2004, and 2008)…..Thereby proving that the American public disliked the New Left over-reach of the late 60’s, and would’ve complied with whatever the GOP was offering, so long as riots and crazy hippies were suppressed. Nixon was able to continue the New Deal while doing some things to reassure the public that the radicals and hippies were not going to steer society in the wrong direction. But ultimately the GOP abdicated it’s duty to attack “light” forms of New Leftism (like the mass entry of women into the workforce, or affirmative action)…..Therefore setting the stage for encroaching PC and the continuing codification of once radical ideas as “normal”, like gay marriage getting almost no criticism from the modern GOP even though Obama (!) once opposed it in the early 2000’s. Similarly, many Democrats and labor activists in the 1960’s-mid 1990’s heavily criticized loose immigration policies (in the 1930’s-1950’s, there was a bi-partisan consensus to keep immigration low) while the GOP of that era often spun yarns about “hard working” immigrants being the backbone of America…Hell, even TV sitcoms made fun of the 1990 law that created the immigration lottery as self-evidently stupid and inexplicable, being such a sign of empire decadence.

    The problem with blaming The Left is that the Right didn’t even try to stop the then (in the 1970’s) radical practice of, for example, cities tolerating gay bathouses that openly used salacious advertisements to excite and attract perverts Why wasn’t the corporate business lobby (obviously they leaned way to the Right in the 1970’s) defending the white guys who sued businesses that used racial preferences on behalf of non-whites? The unwillingness of the business lobby to attack affirmative action in the 1970’s-1990’s paved the way for a lot of moronic precedents being set (like the infamous “disparate impact” meme becoming standard issue legalese).

    And you have to love the cucks who claim that nothing could be done because “someone” won’t let it happen. Uh, you have to actually try first, and even if you are not immediately successful, keep trying. Until then, stop whining that “they” won’t let you win. Why have any affection or respect for the “conservative” lobbies who are do-nothing scam artists for the most part? They don’t deserve your money or your votes. At best they will only slightly slow down what is going to happen to us until we finally get a better choice…If we ever do.

    Let’s also not forget that by letting “slight” things happen (like gory video games being freely available to children), The Right was of course encouraging even bigger atrocities to come down the pike. For example, since The (establishment) Right over the last 50 years has been so largely disinterested in limiting immigration, they trod upon the path that would lead to calls for the abolition of borders altogether. The Right has largely not been stupid enough to admit in public that most of their biggest donors for decades wanted Open Borders, yet here they are, scam artists as usual, pretending that it’s “the Left’s” fault that we can’t have secure borders. Same old, same old. And when Trump comes along and tries to upend neo-liberalism, his own party is doing a disgraceful job of defending him. And were Trump to get evicted, or primaried, no doubt the next GOP candidate would be spineless cuck stuck in 1994. Tucker Carlson has said that his affluent neighbors all despise Trump, and after 50 years of GOP ideological dominance we are firmly in an era of elitism that will make it very difficult for any populist reformer.

  34. @216
    @indocon


    that exurban/rural whites are not going to be suppressed and are not going anywhere and don’t care for them
     
    That remains to be seen. I'm fond of #NotYourFreikorps; but the typical conservative has easily acclimated to "gay rights as a fundamental American value". Its not hard to imagine that in the event of Trump losing, most cons will cuck so fast it will make your head spin. Along with middle class striving, cons greatly value obidience to authority regardless of who or what it is.

    In the event of a Warren Occupation gun grab, most Millennial and Zed conservatives are not going to violently resist the government. Unlike in the 1990s, when large numbers of Vietnam and Desert Storm vets were capable of fighting (along with some WW2/Korea vets as cadre); the typical Iraq/Afghanistan veteran (proportionally less compared to earlier wars) has a higher loyalty to the system because most were genuine volunteers.

    Crime, at least in the US, is not on the rise; and might be technologically declining. Labor unions, in spite of an increasingly pro-union public; are not organizing large numbers of precariat. Obesity is higher than ever, particularly with PeeOhCee. This is in spite of a logical leftist response that obestiy and food waste is causing climate change and starvation. But the obese are an important leftist voting bloc.

    Replies: @Feryl, @Audacious Epigone

    “That remains to be seen. I’m fond of #NotYourFreikorps; but the typical conservative has easily acclimated to “gay rights as a fundamental American value”. Its not hard to imagine that in the event of Trump losing, most cons will cuck so fast it will make your head spin. Along with middle class striving, cons greatly value obidience to authority regardless of who or what it is.”

    The rhetorical stance of most conservatives, since the mid 1970’s, has gone something like this:

    1) It’s the Left’s fault that something is a problem
    2) A large chunk of the public is stupid, or corrupt, for not voting GOP every single election
    3) “They” won’t let us win
    4) I may have an intellectual or moral reservation about something that’s obviously weird or dangerous (or….non-traditional), but I can’t seem to find the resources or manpower to do anything about it, so hey, I guess we just have to deal with it.

    Glibness, excuses, and elitism. Other than token efforts to fight crime and drug use (which is the least a ruling class can do, after all), and some action taken to defend gun owners and limit abortions, the Right has mostly been full of crap and lazy for the last 50 years. Even though, as election results indicate, for the last 50 years middle aged and elderly white people largely are willing to give the GOP the benefit of the doubt in whatever it is they pursue. Young people don’t vote, and Left wing culture warriors in New York and on the West Coast (who are not wholesome New Deal liberals) do not speak for the cultural conservatives and moderates found in most parts of America.

    WRT “obedience”, well you are getting at something important: In the New Deal era, “fairness” was prized above all else. That’s why people back then weren’t as greedy or corrupt. But in the neo-lib era, conservatives still value order and policy stability, even when the system and it’s leaders are rotten and deserved to be skinned alive.

    • Replies: @216
    @Feryl


    and some action taken to defend gun owners
     
    A minor quibble here. The enactment of "shall-issue" concealed carry was a major expansion of gun rights (against XIX Century practice which explicitly carved out constitutional provisions to forbid it). Mostly it has been sold as a crime defense measure, occassionally as a deterrent. Notably it often took a bipartisan coalition to pass, as police chiefs were typically hostile.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States#/media/File:Right_to_Carry,_timeline.gif

    Especially when one considers that only two other developed countries allow any concealed carry, CZ and EE. Unless one still thinks South Africa is a developed country, then there are three. Even in Alberta, you don't see anyone willing to stick their neck out in favor of it up north.
  35. 216 says: • Website
    @Feryl
    @216

    "That remains to be seen. I’m fond of #NotYourFreikorps; but the typical conservative has easily acclimated to “gay rights as a fundamental American value”. Its not hard to imagine that in the event of Trump losing, most cons will cuck so fast it will make your head spin. Along with middle class striving, cons greatly value obidience to authority regardless of who or what it is."

    The rhetorical stance of most conservatives, since the mid 1970's, has gone something like this:

    1) It's the Left's fault that something is a problem
    2) A large chunk of the public is stupid, or corrupt, for not voting GOP every single election
    3) "They" won't let us win
    4) I may have an intellectual or moral reservation about something that's obviously weird or dangerous (or....non-traditional), but I can't seem to find the resources or manpower to do anything about it, so hey, I guess we just have to deal with it.

    Glibness, excuses, and elitism. Other than token efforts to fight crime and drug use (which is the least a ruling class can do, after all), and some action taken to defend gun owners and limit abortions, the Right has mostly been full of crap and lazy for the last 50 years. Even though, as election results indicate, for the last 50 years middle aged and elderly white people largely are willing to give the GOP the benefit of the doubt in whatever it is they pursue. Young people don't vote, and Left wing culture warriors in New York and on the West Coast (who are not wholesome New Deal liberals) do not speak for the cultural conservatives and moderates found in most parts of America.

    WRT "obedience", well you are getting at something important: In the New Deal era, "fairness" was prized above all else. That's why people back then weren't as greedy or corrupt. But in the neo-lib era, conservatives still value order and policy stability, even when the system and it's leaders are rotten and deserved to be skinned alive.

    Replies: @216

    and some action taken to defend gun owners

    A minor quibble here. The enactment of “shall-issue” concealed carry was a major expansion of gun rights (against XIX Century practice which explicitly carved out constitutional provisions to forbid it). Mostly it has been sold as a crime defense measure, occassionally as a deterrent. Notably it often took a bipartisan coalition to pass, as police chiefs were typically hostile.

    Especially when one considers that only two other developed countries allow any concealed carry, CZ and EE. Unless one still thinks South Africa is a developed country, then there are three. Even in Alberta, you don’t see anyone willing to stick their neck out in favor of it up north.

  36. @anon
    My theory for the Great Awokening:

    Upper-class liberal whites are seeking to placate the rising demographic tide of POC least they become their targets. Basically, they either placate them with economic crumbs or they placate their racial animus with incendiary, racially charged news stories blaming all POC problems / failures on "The Other" -- police shootings, institutional bias, racism, white supremacy, etc. For example, senator Kamala Harris was long the servant of California's white liberal elite; she reveled in prosecuting the poor minorities white liberals secretly fear and go to great lengths to avoid. I would guess her plan to give blacks $100 billion dollars is actually not so significant when you look at it closely. Averaged over 10 years, as these plans often are, that comes out to less than one-sixth of the Department of Education's annual budget; it's less than half of NASA's annual budget. Crumbs. Reparations or a UBI would cost a lot more, and most of it would be paid for by the upper-class, so they throw out bread crumbs to divert POC attention away from that option. Although, I'd have to take a closer look at her plan to confirm this suspicion.

    People forget that it was common thought post 2012 that the GOP couldn't win any more elections due to demographic change. That's why the GOP pushed amnesty in the aftermath of Romney's defeat. It's why Ted Cruz went to the border with Glenn Beck to hand out toys to illegal alien border crossers. The sentiment was explicit on election night 2016 when several network news anchors blatantly suggested demographics would do Trump in. TYT hosts repeated the same mantra: Trump insulted the new coalition of the fringes and now he couldn't win; they went into a racist, anti-white meltdown immediately after he was declared the winner. That's why many in NY, DC, and LA were so shocked. They didn't think it was possible for him to win.

    Obama's "the right side of history" mantra was taken as an implied threat by many upper-class liberals: get on the right side least you end up on the wrong side of the new boss in town. Thus, the Great Awokening -- a purity spiral of signaling that you're on the winning side of a low-level race war. Personally, I don't think this is just ethnomasochism on the part of white upper-class liberals. Support for Affirmative Action and extreme wokeness is something akin to paying protection money. They think they'll be immune in the coming crisis if they signal they're on the new boss's side against the hated middle-class and poor white demographics.

    Replies: @indocon, @Audacious Epigone

    Interesting.

    Very pithily, it’s the “eat me last” strategy.

  37. @216
    @indocon


    that exurban/rural whites are not going to be suppressed and are not going anywhere and don’t care for them
     
    That remains to be seen. I'm fond of #NotYourFreikorps; but the typical conservative has easily acclimated to "gay rights as a fundamental American value". Its not hard to imagine that in the event of Trump losing, most cons will cuck so fast it will make your head spin. Along with middle class striving, cons greatly value obidience to authority regardless of who or what it is.

    In the event of a Warren Occupation gun grab, most Millennial and Zed conservatives are not going to violently resist the government. Unlike in the 1990s, when large numbers of Vietnam and Desert Storm vets were capable of fighting (along with some WW2/Korea vets as cadre); the typical Iraq/Afghanistan veteran (proportionally less compared to earlier wars) has a higher loyalty to the system because most were genuine volunteers.

    Crime, at least in the US, is not on the rise; and might be technologically declining. Labor unions, in spite of an increasingly pro-union public; are not organizing large numbers of precariat. Obesity is higher than ever, particularly with PeeOhCee. This is in spite of a logical leftist response that obestiy and food waste is causing climate change and starvation. But the obese are an important leftist voting bloc.

    Replies: @Feryl, @Audacious Epigone

    The Tea Party was easily co-opted, but it was the closest to a genuine populist rightist uprising in my lifetime, and it was basically in response to Obama, wasn’t it?

    If Warren wins the nomination and the presidency, it becomes crucial that the coming stock market collapse occurs after she is in office (or at least after she is elected).

    People are not economically sophisticated. They will largely fall for the seemingly self-evident narrative that a socialist president killed the economy.

    This is not going to be like 2008, where the air simply comes out of asset prices, unemployment hops up a few points, and then things return to normal. Serious inflation has occurred. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. It’s just that the inflation has all gone into financial assets, which has allowed companies to sell things at no–often even negative–profit margin. Yet still their stock valuations increase and their bond rates remain low.

    The Fed is ~one year out from 0% interest rates. After that, asset prices will plunge and inflation will spread to the rest of the economy. A gallon of milk will cost upwards of $10. It’s not just the affluent investor class that will feel the pain.

    • Replies: @216
    @Audacious Epigone


    This is not going to be like 2008, where the air simply comes out of asset prices, unemployment hops up a few points, and then things return to normal
     
    That describes the situation that occured in the Western half of the Midwest, boosted by the Chinese commodities boom.

    It does not describe the situation in the Rust Belt in the Eastern Midwest, where the unemployment rate hit double digits and we came quite close to seeing the dismantling of the auto industry.

    After that, asset prices will plunge and inflation will spread to the rest of the economy.
     
    When has this situation occured historically? Asset deflation and commodity inflation? How does this track with a projected collapse of the dollar?

    I don't forsee an asset price collapse, even if China mirrors Japan's 1980s bubble and subsequent decline and stagnation.

    To break the economy, the idiotic Warren Occupation energy policies backed by Speaker AOC would do the trick.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Audacious Epigone

    You sound like you've read your share of ZeroHedge, A.E., or else thought over this on your own. I am in complete agreement with your view on the state of the economy. I also think whoever is President when the market next crashes will be blamed for this long-term problem, even when all of them since probably Calvin Coolidge should take the blame for not doing something (it's possible JFK's trying to get us back on sound money, then being assassinated put the kibosh on any more efforts).

    On the inflation, Peak Stupidity maintains, in a number of posts on the subject*, that there is quite a bit more inflation of product/service prices than the BLS advertises. Just today, I wrote about auto batteries.

    .

    * scroll down some.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    , @Feryl
    @Audacious Epigone


    The Tea Party was easily co-opted, but it was the closest to a genuine populist rightist uprising in my lifetime, and it was basically in response to Obama, wasn’t it?
     
    The Tea Party was almost 100% Boomer in it's demographics and overall mindset, and it was largely based on generic 1990's Right-wing mores regarding "big government*" and the evil Dummocrats.

    According to Susan Page and Naomi Jagoda of USA Today in 2010, the Tea Party was more "a frustrated state of mind" than "a classic political movement".[190] Tea party members "are more likely to be married and a bit older than the nation as a whole".[190] They are predominantly white, but other groups make up just under one-fourth of their ranks.[190] They believe that the federal government has become too large and powerful.[190]
     
    The Dissident Right was fueled by by people born after the 1960's. The "New Right" wants to command government and right many wrongs (and their definition of what's "wrong" often conflicts with older generations who oversaw the dissolution of communal cohesion which initially began in the mid-1960's and has been getting progressively worse as GIs and Silents have faded off and quarrelsome Boomers gain more power) . It doesn't have the childish Boomer mindset that the worst thing to happen in the history of the world was the collectivism and regulation of the mid-20th century (after all, many Boomers in their adult lives have made it abundantly clear that they want marauding winner take all individualism and cronyism). Sanders was the favorite candidate of Millennials in 2016, and Millennials inclined to go against the grain adopted Trump. Neil Howe says that throughout the world, younger cohorts are favoring "activist" candidates who want to upend the system, who wisely avoid 1980's and 1990's era rhetoric about the imperative of the individual and the private realm.

    *The neo-liberals over-saw the expansion of government in many respects; for one thing, they boasted about building massive numbers of prisons, militarizing the police, and in America's case, giving the Pentagon a blank-check. What they are deeply embarrased by, and don't like to admit, is that the private sector now offers so few quality jobs (good pay, good benefits) that the government might be spending more on social services than it did in the mid-20th century. Though Clinton did reduce the number of people on full welfare technically, (something aided by the mid-90's economic boom, also) there still are massive numbers of people getting assistance for various things; SSI in particular is used by a lot of the people who in the past would've worked at this country's mills and factories. But many of these jobs are now gone, and many other kinds of jobs often pay poorly with weak or no benefits, are are done by immigrants.
    , @Twinkie
    @Audacious Epigone


    The Fed is ~one year out from 0% interest rates. After that, asset prices will plunge and inflation will spread to the rest of the economy. A gallon of milk will cost upwards of $10. It’s not just the affluent investor class that will feel the pain.
     
    All my money is in farmlands, healthcare, and ammo! I am also well-acquainted with a good priest, so I am all set! ;)
    , @Mark G.
    @Audacious Epigone

    One thing that has held down inflation is that consumers have been able to substitute lower priced foreign goods for higher priced domestic goods. This has limited inflation to the non-tradable sector of the economy. Things you have to buy here like health care and higher education have seen large price increases. This, along with stock price increases, is where you are seeing the inflation. If the Fed continues low interest rates you will see a continuing loss of manufacturing jobs as consumers buy lower cost foreign goods and continued price increases in any area where they can't do this. So the Fed is increasing the wealth of the ten percent of the population that owns a lot of stocks and is increasing the incomes of people like doctors and college professors but is destroying the jobs of working class factory workers. You even have declining life expectancy in the U.S. now as a large swathe of the working class population falls into poverty, tries to escape an unpleasant reality by turning to drugs and alcohol, and struggles just to survive.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

  38. 216 says: • Website
    @Audacious Epigone
    @216

    The Tea Party was easily co-opted, but it was the closest to a genuine populist rightist uprising in my lifetime, and it was basically in response to Obama, wasn't it?

    If Warren wins the nomination and the presidency, it becomes crucial that the coming stock market collapse occurs after she is in office (or at least after she is elected).

    People are not economically sophisticated. They will largely fall for the seemingly self-evident narrative that a socialist president killed the economy.

    This is not going to be like 2008, where the air simply comes out of asset prices, unemployment hops up a few points, and then things return to normal. Serious inflation has occurred. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. It's just that the inflation has all gone into financial assets, which has allowed companies to sell things at no--often even negative--profit margin. Yet still their stock valuations increase and their bond rates remain low.

    The Fed is ~one year out from 0% interest rates. After that, asset prices will plunge and inflation will spread to the rest of the economy. A gallon of milk will cost upwards of $10. It's not just the affluent investor class that will feel the pain.

    Replies: @216, @Achmed E. Newman, @Feryl, @Twinkie, @Mark G.

    This is not going to be like 2008, where the air simply comes out of asset prices, unemployment hops up a few points, and then things return to normal

    That describes the situation that occured in the Western half of the Midwest, boosted by the Chinese commodities boom.

    It does not describe the situation in the Rust Belt in the Eastern Midwest, where the unemployment rate hit double digits and we came quite close to seeing the dismantling of the auto industry.

    After that, asset prices will plunge and inflation will spread to the rest of the economy.

    When has this situation occured historically? Asset deflation and commodity inflation? How does this track with a projected collapse of the dollar?

    I don’t forsee an asset price collapse, even if China mirrors Japan’s 1980s bubble and subsequent decline and stagnation.

    To break the economy, the idiotic Warren Occupation energy policies backed by Speaker AOC would do the trick.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @216

    When has this situation occurred historically? Asset deflation and commodity inflation?

    In the early 70s. Gold and oil conventionally get the blame. Gold is more key in my view because in 1971 the entire monetary system was 'forced' into significantly changing. I suspect we are approaching another significant change, a currency crisis.

    Replies: @216

  39. For lower class Whites, i.e. not even considered “working class”:

    1. low IQ and consume a LOT of system content
    2. probably don’t understand the polling question
    3. do not give a fuck about this because they don’t work anyway

  40. Lower, Working, Middle and Upper are not class distinctions. They are income distinctions. I’m living on Social Security. Am I putting on airs? Should I change my name to LowClass?

  41. @Audacious Epigone
    @216

    The Tea Party was easily co-opted, but it was the closest to a genuine populist rightist uprising in my lifetime, and it was basically in response to Obama, wasn't it?

    If Warren wins the nomination and the presidency, it becomes crucial that the coming stock market collapse occurs after she is in office (or at least after she is elected).

    People are not economically sophisticated. They will largely fall for the seemingly self-evident narrative that a socialist president killed the economy.

    This is not going to be like 2008, where the air simply comes out of asset prices, unemployment hops up a few points, and then things return to normal. Serious inflation has occurred. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. It's just that the inflation has all gone into financial assets, which has allowed companies to sell things at no--often even negative--profit margin. Yet still their stock valuations increase and their bond rates remain low.

    The Fed is ~one year out from 0% interest rates. After that, asset prices will plunge and inflation will spread to the rest of the economy. A gallon of milk will cost upwards of $10. It's not just the affluent investor class that will feel the pain.

    Replies: @216, @Achmed E. Newman, @Feryl, @Twinkie, @Mark G.

    You sound like you’ve read your share of ZeroHedge, A.E., or else thought over this on your own. I am in complete agreement with your view on the state of the economy. I also think whoever is President when the market next crashes will be blamed for this long-term problem, even when all of them since probably Calvin Coolidge should take the blame for not doing something (it’s possible JFK’s trying to get us back on sound money, then being assassinated put the kibosh on any more efforts).

    On the inflation, Peak Stupidity maintains, in a number of posts on the subject*, that there is quite a bit more inflation of product/service prices than the BLS advertises. Just today, I wrote about auto batteries.

    .

    * scroll down some.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I've not read Zero Hedge outside of following the occasional link there. I don't have a good reason for that other than opportunity costs, I guess.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  42. @Tulip
    The most interesting part of the graph is the responses of the working class and lower class whites.

    Its pretty clear if the GOP mitigates their class warfare policies and the Democrats keep up the intersectionality/white privilege bullshit, you could push most of the whites, (liberal, moderate or conservative) into the GOP.

    Replies: @WorkingClass

    I’m a white working class Deplorable. I’m a union man. But I can’t be a white Democrat.

    I’m not a Republican. For that the GOP would have to become the party of the working class. It wouldn’t be hard to do. The working class needs work and wages not war and welfare. Taylor your policies and your rhetoric accordingly and you will have all the voters you will ever need.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @WorkingClass

    Two letters in your listed email address got jumbled and it looks like cookies are autofilling the (incorrect) jumble. Take a second to flip it back and everything should auto-approve again.

  43. @Audacious Epigone
    @216

    The Tea Party was easily co-opted, but it was the closest to a genuine populist rightist uprising in my lifetime, and it was basically in response to Obama, wasn't it?

    If Warren wins the nomination and the presidency, it becomes crucial that the coming stock market collapse occurs after she is in office (or at least after she is elected).

    People are not economically sophisticated. They will largely fall for the seemingly self-evident narrative that a socialist president killed the economy.

    This is not going to be like 2008, where the air simply comes out of asset prices, unemployment hops up a few points, and then things return to normal. Serious inflation has occurred. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. It's just that the inflation has all gone into financial assets, which has allowed companies to sell things at no--often even negative--profit margin. Yet still their stock valuations increase and their bond rates remain low.

    The Fed is ~one year out from 0% interest rates. After that, asset prices will plunge and inflation will spread to the rest of the economy. A gallon of milk will cost upwards of $10. It's not just the affluent investor class that will feel the pain.

    Replies: @216, @Achmed E. Newman, @Feryl, @Twinkie, @Mark G.

    The Tea Party was easily co-opted, but it was the closest to a genuine populist rightist uprising in my lifetime, and it was basically in response to Obama, wasn’t it?

    The Tea Party was almost 100% Boomer in it’s demographics and overall mindset, and it was largely based on generic 1990’s Right-wing mores regarding “big government*” and the evil Dummocrats.

    According to Susan Page and Naomi Jagoda of USA Today in 2010, the Tea Party was more “a frustrated state of mind” than “a classic political movement”.[190] Tea party members “are more likely to be married and a bit older than the nation as a whole”.[190] They are predominantly white, but other groups make up just under one-fourth of their ranks.[190] They believe that the federal government has become too large and powerful.[190]

    The Dissident Right was fueled by by people born after the 1960’s. The “New Right” wants to command government and right many wrongs (and their definition of what’s “wrong” often conflicts with older generations who oversaw the dissolution of communal cohesion which initially began in the mid-1960’s and has been getting progressively worse as GIs and Silents have faded off and quarrelsome Boomers gain more power) . It doesn’t have the childish Boomer mindset that the worst thing to happen in the history of the world was the collectivism and regulation of the mid-20th century (after all, many Boomers in their adult lives have made it abundantly clear that they want marauding winner take all individualism and cronyism). Sanders was the favorite candidate of Millennials in 2016, and Millennials inclined to go against the grain adopted Trump. Neil Howe says that throughout the world, younger cohorts are favoring “activist” candidates who want to upend the system, who wisely avoid 1980’s and 1990’s era rhetoric about the imperative of the individual and the private realm.

    *The neo-liberals over-saw the expansion of government in many respects; for one thing, they boasted about building massive numbers of prisons, militarizing the police, and in America’s case, giving the Pentagon a blank-check. What they are deeply embarrased by, and don’t like to admit, is that the private sector now offers so few quality jobs (good pay, good benefits) that the government might be spending more on social services than it did in the mid-20th century. Though Clinton did reduce the number of people on full welfare technically, (something aided by the mid-90’s economic boom, also) there still are massive numbers of people getting assistance for various things; SSI in particular is used by a lot of the people who in the past would’ve worked at this country’s mills and factories. But many of these jobs are now gone, and many other kinds of jobs often pay poorly with weak or no benefits, are are done by immigrants.

  44. @indocon
    @anon

    I wonder how that feeling in urban upper-class whites would change once they realize that exurban/rural whites are not going to be suppressed and are not going anywhere and don't care for them, while POC's living right next to them are starting to act really really bad in a way that affects their daily lives?

    Replies: @216, @krustykurmudgeon

    “exurban/rural whites are not going to be suppressed and are not going anywhere”. They may not be going anywhere but once they can’t decide elections – it means the left is going to get brazen. The state of virginia for example is a cycle or two away to where the rural areas won’t be needed for democrats to win.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  45. “The gulf between white leftist elites and white conservative elites is enormous. ”

    Not on immigration. Its the exact same.

  46. @Audacious Epigone
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    And so disclosed it now is!

    I do think Twinkie knows many poor, rural Appalachian whites, though.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    And so disclosed it now is!

    That “disclosure” of his reads “Because I don’t like him, you all should dislike him too!”

    I do think Twinkie knows many poor, rural Appalachian whites, though.

    I stopped writing about this, because it’s futile, but I wish these supposed pro-white whites would stop wasting time online and do something for their fellow whites in distress in the real world.

    Some of my parishioners and I, along with my older boys, used to volunteer to build homes for very low income and homeless people in West Virginia (almost all of whom were whites). There are numerous programs of this type, in which people can participate. Or they can start their own.

    Instead, all these supposed pro-white advocates are either attention-whoring peacocks like Richard Spencer or trolls who do nothing productive but throw insults and ad hominem online and advocate for racial violence from the safety of their computers.

    In any case, thank you for investigating (and validating!) my intuition and observations. Obviously my opinions won’t always be supported by statistics, but I am glad to know that in this case it was. I always appreciate people who keep me honest intellectually.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Twinkie

    pro-white advocates

    Most, if not all, are not "pro-white."

    They have an ideology and political cause, mostly inchoate, and that is what they are "pro."

    Replies: @Twinkie, @216

    , @Oldtradesman
    @Twinkie


    Some of my parishioners and I, along with my older boys, used to volunteer to build homes for very low income and homeless people in West Virginia (almost all of whom were whites).
     
    Good on you, Twinkie. Seriously.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    @Twinkie

    My pleasure. Feed me more post material!

  47. @Audacious Epigone
    @216

    The Tea Party was easily co-opted, but it was the closest to a genuine populist rightist uprising in my lifetime, and it was basically in response to Obama, wasn't it?

    If Warren wins the nomination and the presidency, it becomes crucial that the coming stock market collapse occurs after she is in office (or at least after she is elected).

    People are not economically sophisticated. They will largely fall for the seemingly self-evident narrative that a socialist president killed the economy.

    This is not going to be like 2008, where the air simply comes out of asset prices, unemployment hops up a few points, and then things return to normal. Serious inflation has occurred. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. It's just that the inflation has all gone into financial assets, which has allowed companies to sell things at no--often even negative--profit margin. Yet still their stock valuations increase and their bond rates remain low.

    The Fed is ~one year out from 0% interest rates. After that, asset prices will plunge and inflation will spread to the rest of the economy. A gallon of milk will cost upwards of $10. It's not just the affluent investor class that will feel the pain.

    Replies: @216, @Achmed E. Newman, @Feryl, @Twinkie, @Mark G.

    The Fed is ~one year out from 0% interest rates. After that, asset prices will plunge and inflation will spread to the rest of the economy. A gallon of milk will cost upwards of $10. It’s not just the affluent investor class that will feel the pain.

    All my money is in farmlands, healthcare, and ammo! I am also well-acquainted with a good priest, so I am all set! 😉

  48. I was surprised by conservative percentages. I though it was flipped around. with lower classes being totally against. maybe this may be due to lower iq’s? not understanding what’s really hitting them.

    or maybe the research got it wrong

  49. Upper-income white conservatives are possibly in low margin businesses where they have to hire large numbers of workers near the bottom of the cognitive scale and theft of tangible goods and services is a significant problem. Whereas upper-income white liberals are in high margin areas where they get to recruit the creme de la creme which, when leavened with a few affirmative action do-nothings, really doesn’t cause significant problems.

  50. @Twinkie
    @Audacious Epigone


    And so disclosed it now is!
     
    That "disclosure" of his reads "Because I don't like him, you all should dislike him too!"

    I do think Twinkie knows many poor, rural Appalachian whites, though.
     
    I stopped writing about this, because it's futile, but I wish these supposed pro-white whites would stop wasting time online and do something for their fellow whites in distress in the real world.

    Some of my parishioners and I, along with my older boys, used to volunteer to build homes for very low income and homeless people in West Virginia (almost all of whom were whites). There are numerous programs of this type, in which people can participate. Or they can start their own.

    Instead, all these supposed pro-white advocates are either attention-whoring peacocks like Richard Spencer or trolls who do nothing productive but throw insults and ad hominem online and advocate for racial violence from the safety of their computers.

    In any case, thank you for investigating (and validating!) my intuition and observations. Obviously my opinions won't always be supported by statistics, but I am glad to know that in this case it was. I always appreciate people who keep me honest intellectually.

    Replies: @iffen, @Oldtradesman, @Audacious Epigone

    pro-white advocates

    Most, if not all, are not “pro-white.”

    They have an ideology and political cause, mostly inchoate, and that is what they are “pro.”

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @iffen

    I used the term sarcastically (“supposed”).

    Replies: @iffen

    , @216
    @iffen

    An ideological system whose only political expression in society has been prison gangs.

    Replies: @iffen

  51. @Audacious Epigone
    @216

    The Tea Party was easily co-opted, but it was the closest to a genuine populist rightist uprising in my lifetime, and it was basically in response to Obama, wasn't it?

    If Warren wins the nomination and the presidency, it becomes crucial that the coming stock market collapse occurs after she is in office (or at least after she is elected).

    People are not economically sophisticated. They will largely fall for the seemingly self-evident narrative that a socialist president killed the economy.

    This is not going to be like 2008, where the air simply comes out of asset prices, unemployment hops up a few points, and then things return to normal. Serious inflation has occurred. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. It's just that the inflation has all gone into financial assets, which has allowed companies to sell things at no--often even negative--profit margin. Yet still their stock valuations increase and their bond rates remain low.

    The Fed is ~one year out from 0% interest rates. After that, asset prices will plunge and inflation will spread to the rest of the economy. A gallon of milk will cost upwards of $10. It's not just the affluent investor class that will feel the pain.

    Replies: @216, @Achmed E. Newman, @Feryl, @Twinkie, @Mark G.

    One thing that has held down inflation is that consumers have been able to substitute lower priced foreign goods for higher priced domestic goods. This has limited inflation to the non-tradable sector of the economy. Things you have to buy here like health care and higher education have seen large price increases. This, along with stock price increases, is where you are seeing the inflation. If the Fed continues low interest rates you will see a continuing loss of manufacturing jobs as consumers buy lower cost foreign goods and continued price increases in any area where they can’t do this. So the Fed is increasing the wealth of the ten percent of the population that owns a lot of stocks and is increasing the incomes of people like doctors and college professors but is destroying the jobs of working class factory workers. You even have declining life expectancy in the U.S. now as a large swathe of the working class population falls into poverty, tries to escape an unpleasant reality by turning to drugs and alcohol, and struggles just to survive.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Mark G.

    Exactly. And if a weak dollar makes those cheap consumables less cheap--something that is going to happen--we're going to see what I'm predicting; asset prices going down, consumable prices going up.

  52. AE: I posted two comments to this thread. Any sign of them?

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @WorkingClass

    See my response above. Was that the issue?

  53. AE: My comments (from yesterday) have reappeared. But they are awaiting moderation.

  54. @iffen
    @Twinkie

    pro-white advocates

    Most, if not all, are not "pro-white."

    They have an ideology and political cause, mostly inchoate, and that is what they are "pro."

    Replies: @Twinkie, @216

    I used the term sarcastically (“supposed”).

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Twinkie

    Yes, I can see that, but then you wrote this:

    do something for their fellow whites in distress in the real world.

    and this implicitly entertains the idea which the WNs espouse, and that is that a white citizen "owes" more to another white than he does to a non-white citizen.

    And like I said, they are not really pro-white in that they do not include all whites, just those that go along with their inchoate ideology and politics.

    I think we agree that they are not pro-white, but we disagree on why that is true.

  55. @Audacious Epigone
    @Realist

    I assume underclass whites who aren't rural tend to live in areas that are heavily black (and/or Hispanic). We think of "wiggers" as affluent suburban white kids, but it's more characteristic of poor white kids from mixed underclass neighborhoods. As such, they probably tend to subconsciously adopt black views to some extent.

    Replies: @216, @Realist, @Anonymous, @Polar

    Look at the chart. The lower class shows almost no ideological differences. Only when they start making some money do they start departing from reality.

    I very much doubt wiggers identity as liberals since most blacks don’t. Those in the working class bar are probably work study, Starbucks barista, etc that surround themselves with other whites often in college towns where they have the luxury of hypocritically calling everyone else racist for wanting to live in circles as white as theirs.

  56. @Twinkie
    @Audacious Epigone


    And so disclosed it now is!
     
    That "disclosure" of his reads "Because I don't like him, you all should dislike him too!"

    I do think Twinkie knows many poor, rural Appalachian whites, though.
     
    I stopped writing about this, because it's futile, but I wish these supposed pro-white whites would stop wasting time online and do something for their fellow whites in distress in the real world.

    Some of my parishioners and I, along with my older boys, used to volunteer to build homes for very low income and homeless people in West Virginia (almost all of whom were whites). There are numerous programs of this type, in which people can participate. Or they can start their own.

    Instead, all these supposed pro-white advocates are either attention-whoring peacocks like Richard Spencer or trolls who do nothing productive but throw insults and ad hominem online and advocate for racial violence from the safety of their computers.

    In any case, thank you for investigating (and validating!) my intuition and observations. Obviously my opinions won't always be supported by statistics, but I am glad to know that in this case it was. I always appreciate people who keep me honest intellectually.

    Replies: @iffen, @Oldtradesman, @Audacious Epigone

    Some of my parishioners and I, along with my older boys, used to volunteer to build homes for very low income and homeless people in West Virginia (almost all of whom were whites).

    Good on you, Twinkie. Seriously.

  57. @Twinkie
    @iffen

    I used the term sarcastically (“supposed”).

    Replies: @iffen

    Yes, I can see that, but then you wrote this:

    do something for their fellow whites in distress in the real world.

    and this implicitly entertains the idea which the WNs espouse, and that is that a white citizen “owes” more to another white than he does to a non-white citizen.

    And like I said, they are not really pro-white in that they do not include all whites, just those that go along with their inchoate ideology and politics.

    I think we agree that they are not pro-white, but we disagree on why that is true.

  58. I guess the upper class liberals assume it won’t be jobs they themselves are after which given to black people instead.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  59. @216
    @Audacious Epigone


    This is not going to be like 2008, where the air simply comes out of asset prices, unemployment hops up a few points, and then things return to normal
     
    That describes the situation that occured in the Western half of the Midwest, boosted by the Chinese commodities boom.

    It does not describe the situation in the Rust Belt in the Eastern Midwest, where the unemployment rate hit double digits and we came quite close to seeing the dismantling of the auto industry.

    After that, asset prices will plunge and inflation will spread to the rest of the economy.
     
    When has this situation occured historically? Asset deflation and commodity inflation? How does this track with a projected collapse of the dollar?

    I don't forsee an asset price collapse, even if China mirrors Japan's 1980s bubble and subsequent decline and stagnation.

    To break the economy, the idiotic Warren Occupation energy policies backed by Speaker AOC would do the trick.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    When has this situation occurred historically? Asset deflation and commodity inflation?

    In the early 70s. Gold and oil conventionally get the blame. Gold is more key in my view because in 1971 the entire monetary system was ‘forced’ into significantly changing. I suspect we are approaching another significant change, a currency crisis.

    • Replies: @216
    @Audacious Epigone

    What do you think about Bretton Woods and a revival of this system?

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

  60. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Audacious Epigone

    You sound like you've read your share of ZeroHedge, A.E., or else thought over this on your own. I am in complete agreement with your view on the state of the economy. I also think whoever is President when the market next crashes will be blamed for this long-term problem, even when all of them since probably Calvin Coolidge should take the blame for not doing something (it's possible JFK's trying to get us back on sound money, then being assassinated put the kibosh on any more efforts).

    On the inflation, Peak Stupidity maintains, in a number of posts on the subject*, that there is quite a bit more inflation of product/service prices than the BLS advertises. Just today, I wrote about auto batteries.

    .

    * scroll down some.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    I’ve not read Zero Hedge outside of following the occasional link there. I don’t have a good reason for that other than opportunity costs, I guess.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Audacious Epigone

    Well, I know you're a family man with not the time to keep up with all the posts there. There are ~ 3 X as many posts daily on ZH as when I used to be hooked on it > 5 years back. The thing is that the commenters were just a real hoot back then, the funniest I've read anywhere, and the comments were more easily viewed. The posts were 75% on financial matters back then, as opposed to ~ 25% now.

    Yes, you are doing the right thing regarding opportunity costs! Nowadays, I just go to that site when I'm bored or out of Peak Stupidity material.

  61. @WorkingClass
    @Tulip

    I'm a white working class Deplorable. I'm a union man. But I can't be a white Democrat.

    I'm not a Republican. For that the GOP would have to become the party of the working class. It wouldn't be hard to do. The working class needs work and wages not war and welfare. Taylor your policies and your rhetoric accordingly and you will have all the voters you will ever need.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    Two letters in your listed email address got jumbled and it looks like cookies are autofilling the (incorrect) jumble. Take a second to flip it back and everything should auto-approve again.

  62. @Audacious Epigone
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I've not read Zero Hedge outside of following the occasional link there. I don't have a good reason for that other than opportunity costs, I guess.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Well, I know you’re a family man with not the time to keep up with all the posts there. There are ~ 3 X as many posts daily on ZH as when I used to be hooked on it > 5 years back. The thing is that the commenters were just a real hoot back then, the funniest I’ve read anywhere, and the comments were more easily viewed. The posts were 75% on financial matters back then, as opposed to ~ 25% now.

    Yes, you are doing the right thing regarding opportunity costs! Nowadays, I just go to that site when I’m bored or out of Peak Stupidity material.

  63. @iffen
    @Twinkie

    pro-white advocates

    Most, if not all, are not "pro-white."

    They have an ideology and political cause, mostly inchoate, and that is what they are "pro."

    Replies: @Twinkie, @216

    An ideological system whose only political expression in society has been prison gangs.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @216

    A prison gang only qualifies as political within that closed system. IRL it is non-existent except for a few oddballs here and there. Of course this is great from the Borg's point of view because they can make it into anything that they want or need.

    Replies: @216

  64. @Audacious Epigone
    @216

    When has this situation occurred historically? Asset deflation and commodity inflation?

    In the early 70s. Gold and oil conventionally get the blame. Gold is more key in my view because in 1971 the entire monetary system was 'forced' into significantly changing. I suspect we are approaching another significant change, a currency crisis.

    Replies: @216

    What do you think about Bretton Woods and a revival of this system?

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @216

    I definitely think it could happen, or at least a functional substitute could arise. Facebook is now getting into quasi-crypto currency. There is now a service that allows gold to used in small transactions through a phone app. Despite the powers that be wanting it to be, physical cash hasn't been pulled out of the system. I can't conceive of how negative interest rates are going to function with that being the case.

  65. @216
    @iffen

    An ideological system whose only political expression in society has been prison gangs.

    Replies: @iffen

    A prison gang only qualifies as political within that closed system. IRL it is non-existent except for a few oddballs here and there. Of course this is great from the Borg’s point of view because they can make it into anything that they want or need.

    • Replies: @216
    @iffen

    IIRC, at some point in the past there were ties between the Black Panthers and some black prison gangs. The Provisional IRA also operated as a prison gang.

    I reference the idea of prison gangs to show that it is the only instance of a "white nationalist" group executing power over others. In practice this has been a massive drug trafficking operation, that provides a protection racket to white inmates on the balance of being the most violent gang. A bad parallel were this ever to be applied in the civilian world.

    Perhaps surprising is that while inmates are a group with a deserved bad reputation, white prison gangs seem to be an accepted part of the prison system. Prison gangs don't seem to be organizing around communism.

    Replies: @iffen

  66. 216 says: • Website
    @iffen
    @216

    A prison gang only qualifies as political within that closed system. IRL it is non-existent except for a few oddballs here and there. Of course this is great from the Borg's point of view because they can make it into anything that they want or need.

    Replies: @216

    IIRC, at some point in the past there were ties between the Black Panthers and some black prison gangs. The Provisional IRA also operated as a prison gang.

    I reference the idea of prison gangs to show that it is the only instance of a “white nationalist” group executing power over others. In practice this has been a massive drug trafficking operation, that provides a protection racket to white inmates on the balance of being the most violent gang. A bad parallel were this ever to be applied in the civilian world.

    Perhaps surprising is that while inmates are a group with a deserved bad reputation, white prison gangs seem to be an accepted part of the prison system. Prison gangs don’t seem to be organizing around communism.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @216

    I reference the idea of prison gangs to show that it is the only instance of a “white nationalist” group executing power over others.

    I understand your point, but I don't think that tells us anything about "white nationalism" in the internet and public space ether any more than what a black prison gang tells us about black nationalism (We don't hear much about black nationalism these days. It was all the rage in the 60's.). There are many prison, street and criminal gangs, and although race is a good organizing tool, the particular race that is used is immaterial. The existence of white prison gangs neither detracts from nor adds anything to the concept of white nationalism.

    Prison gangs don’t seem to be organizing around communism.

    Communism is one of the all time great organizing ideologies. Too bad it's been tossed to the side of the road like an orange sucked dry of any smidgen of juice and cannot be used ever again.

  67. @216
    @iffen

    IIRC, at some point in the past there were ties between the Black Panthers and some black prison gangs. The Provisional IRA also operated as a prison gang.

    I reference the idea of prison gangs to show that it is the only instance of a "white nationalist" group executing power over others. In practice this has been a massive drug trafficking operation, that provides a protection racket to white inmates on the balance of being the most violent gang. A bad parallel were this ever to be applied in the civilian world.

    Perhaps surprising is that while inmates are a group with a deserved bad reputation, white prison gangs seem to be an accepted part of the prison system. Prison gangs don't seem to be organizing around communism.

    Replies: @iffen

    I reference the idea of prison gangs to show that it is the only instance of a “white nationalist” group executing power over others.

    I understand your point, but I don’t think that tells us anything about “white nationalism” in the internet and public space ether any more than what a black prison gang tells us about black nationalism (We don’t hear much about black nationalism these days. It was all the rage in the 60’s.). There are many prison, street and criminal gangs, and although race is a good organizing tool, the particular race that is used is immaterial. The existence of white prison gangs neither detracts from nor adds anything to the concept of white nationalism.

    Prison gangs don’t seem to be organizing around communism.

    Communism is one of the all time great organizing ideologies. Too bad it’s been tossed to the side of the road like an orange sucked dry of any smidgen of juice and cannot be used ever again.

  68. @Twinkie
    @Audacious Epigone


    And so disclosed it now is!
     
    That "disclosure" of his reads "Because I don't like him, you all should dislike him too!"

    I do think Twinkie knows many poor, rural Appalachian whites, though.
     
    I stopped writing about this, because it's futile, but I wish these supposed pro-white whites would stop wasting time online and do something for their fellow whites in distress in the real world.

    Some of my parishioners and I, along with my older boys, used to volunteer to build homes for very low income and homeless people in West Virginia (almost all of whom were whites). There are numerous programs of this type, in which people can participate. Or they can start their own.

    Instead, all these supposed pro-white advocates are either attention-whoring peacocks like Richard Spencer or trolls who do nothing productive but throw insults and ad hominem online and advocate for racial violence from the safety of their computers.

    In any case, thank you for investigating (and validating!) my intuition and observations. Obviously my opinions won't always be supported by statistics, but I am glad to know that in this case it was. I always appreciate people who keep me honest intellectually.

    Replies: @iffen, @Oldtradesman, @Audacious Epigone

    My pleasure. Feed me more post material!

  69. @WorkingClass
    AE: I posted two comments to this thread. Any sign of them?

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    See my response above. Was that the issue?

  70. @Mark G.
    @Audacious Epigone

    One thing that has held down inflation is that consumers have been able to substitute lower priced foreign goods for higher priced domestic goods. This has limited inflation to the non-tradable sector of the economy. Things you have to buy here like health care and higher education have seen large price increases. This, along with stock price increases, is where you are seeing the inflation. If the Fed continues low interest rates you will see a continuing loss of manufacturing jobs as consumers buy lower cost foreign goods and continued price increases in any area where they can't do this. So the Fed is increasing the wealth of the ten percent of the population that owns a lot of stocks and is increasing the incomes of people like doctors and college professors but is destroying the jobs of working class factory workers. You even have declining life expectancy in the U.S. now as a large swathe of the working class population falls into poverty, tries to escape an unpleasant reality by turning to drugs and alcohol, and struggles just to survive.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    Exactly. And if a weak dollar makes those cheap consumables less cheap–something that is going to happen–we’re going to see what I’m predicting; asset prices going down, consumable prices going up.

  71. @216
    @Audacious Epigone

    What do you think about Bretton Woods and a revival of this system?

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    I definitely think it could happen, or at least a functional substitute could arise. Facebook is now getting into quasi-crypto currency. There is now a service that allows gold to used in small transactions through a phone app. Despite the powers that be wanting it to be, physical cash hasn’t been pulled out of the system. I can’t conceive of how negative interest rates are going to function with that being the case.

  72. This research focuses on whites’ reactions to the racial composition of the local population. Multilevel modeling is applied to a micro/macro data file that links 1990 General Social Survey responses to census information about respondents’ localities. On summary scales representing traditional prejudice, opposition to race-targeting, and policy-related beliefs, white negativity swells as the local black population share expands. Among non-Southern whites, a 10-point rise in the local percentage of blacks brings an increase in traditional prejudice greater than the decrease in prejudice that comes with three additional years of education. South/non-South differences in whites’ views about blacks are generally reduced to about one-half of their original size and fall short of statistical significance when local racial composition is controlled. Interestingly, concentrations of local Asian American and Latino populations do not engender white antipathy toward these groups. If whites’ reactions to the presence of blacks is a threat response, the specific dynamics of this threat await description.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    @Oblivionrecurs

    Those graphs are interesting but for the life of me I can't figure out exactly what they are supposed to mean; the descriptive text, doesn't.

  73. @Oblivionrecurs
    http://magaimg.net/img/95b4.jpg

    http://magaimg.net/img/95b5.jpg

    This research focuses on whites' reactions to the racial composition of the local population. Multilevel modeling is applied to a micro/macro data file that links 1990 General Social Survey responses to census information about respondents' localities. On summary scales representing traditional prejudice, opposition to race-targeting, and policy-related beliefs, white negativity swells as the local black population share expands. Among non-Southern whites, a 10-point rise in the local percentage of blacks brings an increase in traditional prejudice greater than the decrease in prejudice that comes with three additional years of education. South/non-South differences in whites' views about blacks are generally reduced to about one-half of their original size and fall short of statistical significance when local racial composition is controlled. Interestingly, concentrations of local Asian American and Latino populations do not engender white antipathy toward these groups. If whites' reactions to the presence of blacks is a threat response, the specific dynamics of this threat await description.

    Replies: @Mr. Rational

    Those graphs are interesting but for the life of me I can’t figure out exactly what they are supposed to mean; the descriptive text, doesn’t.

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