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According to the GSS, white liberals are now as or more supportive of blacks being given “preference in hiring and promotion” over whites than blacks are. It is noted in the body of the question under consideration that some people say preferential treatment is wrong because it discriminates against whites. The question is framed to address a biracial pre-1965 US more than the polyglot America has become, allowing it to serve as a nice proxy for ethnomasochism among whites:

Black support has remained consistent over the last couple of decades, with just under half of blacks in favor of preferential treatment for themselves. White moderates (slightly liberal/conservative or moderate) and white conservatives (conservative or very conservative) have remained similarly consistent, albeit at much lower levels of support.

The Great Awokening among white liberals (liberal or very liberal), in contrast, is remarkable. Support levels lift off from 2012 and continue to ascend through to 2018, the latest year for which data is available. White liberals are now modestly more supportive of preferences for blacks at the expense of whites than blacks are, and it seems more likely than not that the gap between liberal whites and blacks will continue to grow into 2020 and beyond.

GSS variables used: RACECEN1(1)(2), HISPANIC(1)(2-50), YEAR, AFFRMACT(1-2)(3-4), POLVIEWS(1-2)(3-5)(6-7)

 
• Category: Ideology, Race/Ethnicity • Tags: Affirmative action, GSS 
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  1. 216 says: • Website

    Off topic:

    Polls, Canada

    http://angusreid.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/2019.10.1_Vote_October.pdf

    Major generation gap, young men in Canada give one-fifth of their votes to the NDP, if they mirrored older (Old Stock) generations, this would be a Conservative rout.

    Boomer women finally turn on Justin. Soft Green party support decelerates in favor of tactical voting.

    • Replies: @LoutishAngloQuebecker
    @216

    Take a look at the right wing People's Party though. For young men it's at 6%, double the rest. Considering that this cohort is only 60% white, it means a considerable amount of young white men are voting PPC.

    I have to be honest, though. Canadian politics are different than American politics, and it's not uncommon for the Conservatives to do well among non-whites.

    In Toronto, for instance, the whiter urban areas always vote left, while the immigrant filled GTA is a perpetual battleground. The scorecard kind of looks like this:

    Urban whites (left wing)
    Rural whites (far right wing)
    Suburban whites (right wing)

    1st generation non-white, employed (right wing)
    1st generation non-white, muslim/negro/refugee/on welfare (far left wing)
    2nd generation non-white (anti white racist - might vote right wing for lower taxes though)

    Some of the biggest haters of muslims and black immigrants are other immigrants themselves. Unless you're on the ground you won't hear this from the MSM.

    As much as I wish I could say "muh brown folx voting left wing", the truth is that much of the ndp support comes from brainwashed urban whites, who are almost 70% left wing.

    Replies: @216

  2. 216 says: • Website

    Off topic, again

    Thuringen, Oct 27

    https://dawum.de/Thueringen/

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landtagswahl_in_Thüringen_2019

    The pattern observed in Sachsen and Brandenburg repeats itself. Soft Green support declines in favor of the leading party (SPD in BB, CDU in SN). This was to prevent AFD from coming in first, which earns a marginal boost from “direktmandat”. But in TH, the leading party is Linke.

    That would give even the most cuckolded CDU supporters pause, and notionally there could be no option other than CDU-AFD, or the CDU backing a minority leftist government.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @216

    Did polls understate AfD support in recent elections?

    On one hand, nice to see them outperforming the last round by 13%. On the other hand, every other party is for massive third world migration, so 24% is depressingly low.

    Replies: @216

  3. After 50+ years of utter failure to achieve, it is INSANE that anyone could think that preferences could fix the deficiencies of blacks in Euro-American society.

    INSANE.

    Yet they still profess it.  Perhaps the only cure is to force them to practice it, personally.  Uplift the Africans, or die trying.  Maybe enough dead will educate the rest.  Existential threats have a way of concentrating the mind in ways that lesser incentives do not.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Mr. Rational

    For an increasing number of liberal whites, efficacy in getting rid of disparate impact may not be the primary driver. Sticking it to badwhites is the real reason.

  4. 216 says: • Website

    Related

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300015

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300018

    Lots of our people love to kvetch about the Administrations praising of low minority unemployment rates. Is there data that indicates a large number of white men purposely left unemployed due to A/A?

    Not that I am aware of. Underemployment, sure. But unemployment not so much. And it doesn’t help when the “deaths of despair” are mostly whacking employed people, that get replaced by non-whites.

    In the only direct compairson of age-limited groups on race; we see that black teen employment has moderately bounced back from the recession. White teen employment has not.

    If we want to increase the employment of white men, this looks like the place to start.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @216


    If we want to increase the employment of white men, this looks like the place to start.
     
    "WE" don't need to do anything, assuming your "we" means "your" governments. No, get rid of the constraining rules on everyone, including the unconstitutional sick AA program, fire all the HR ladies*, and then employers will hire the right people to get the work done.

    .

    * See also: Part 2, an Interlude on Toby Flenderson, and Part 3.

    Replies: @Twodees Partain

  5. @216
    Off topic, again

    Thuringen, Oct 27

    https://dawum.de/Thueringen/

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landtagswahl_in_Thüringen_2019

    The pattern observed in Sachsen and Brandenburg repeats itself. Soft Green support declines in favor of the leading party (SPD in BB, CDU in SN). This was to prevent AFD from coming in first, which earns a marginal boost from "direktmandat". But in TH, the leading party is Linke.

    That would give even the most cuckolded CDU supporters pause, and notionally there could be no option other than CDU-AFD, or the CDU backing a minority leftist government.

    Replies: @Lot

    Did polls understate AfD support in recent elections?

    On one hand, nice to see them outperforming the last round by 13%. On the other hand, every other party is for massive third world migration, so 24% is depressingly low.

    • Replies: @216
    @Lot

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landtagswahl_in_Sachsen_2019

    Overperformed 2-3% in Sachsen

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landtagswahl_in_Brandenburg_2019

    Overperformed 2-3% in Brandenburg

    Also, in both lander the CDU and SPD respectively overperformed, floating voters shifted their way to prevent an AFD first place.

    Linke is the most invasion-skeptical after AFD, especially in the east.

    I would be surprised if there are "election irregularties" that hedge the leftist coalition, which sits 1-2 seats away from a seat majority, to an absolute majority. This means the CDU can dodge tolerating a minority government, or forming a coalition with AFD and risking expulsion.

    The establishment also probably has an "October surprise" for Hocke (they did in Brandenburg), and will do anything to spike turnout out of fear that he is the scariest AFD leader.

    Replies: @Lot

  6. Coincidentally, Steve Sailer has a post up, also from tonight, with the same subject, but without the nice graphs.

    Seriously, this is one retarded generation coming of age now. The parents are mostly responsible for not having fought the Big-Ed brainwashing by talking to their kids or taken them out of the government indoctrination camps.

    • Agree: baythoven
  7. @216
    Related

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300015

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300018

    Lots of our people love to kvetch about the Administrations praising of low minority unemployment rates. Is there data that indicates a large number of white men purposely left unemployed due to A/A?

    Not that I am aware of. Underemployment, sure. But unemployment not so much. And it doesn't help when the "deaths of despair" are mostly whacking employed people, that get replaced by non-whites.

    In the only direct compairson of age-limited groups on race; we see that black teen employment has moderately bounced back from the recession. White teen employment has not.

    If we want to increase the employment of white men, this looks like the place to start.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    If we want to increase the employment of white men, this looks like the place to start.

    “WE” don’t need to do anything, assuming your “we” means “your” governments. No, get rid of the constraining rules on everyone, including the unconstitutional sick AA program, fire all the HR ladies*, and then employers will hire the right people to get the work done.

    .

    * See also: Part 2, an Interlude on Toby Flenderson, and Part 3.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Ok, so you kind of beat me to it. I was about to ask ol' 216, "Where'd you get this 'we' shit, anyways?". Not quite the same thing, but it was enough to stop me.

  8. 216 says: • Website
    @Lot
    @216

    Did polls understate AfD support in recent elections?

    On one hand, nice to see them outperforming the last round by 13%. On the other hand, every other party is for massive third world migration, so 24% is depressingly low.

    Replies: @216

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landtagswahl_in_Sachsen_2019

    Overperformed 2-3% in Sachsen

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landtagswahl_in_Brandenburg_2019

    Overperformed 2-3% in Brandenburg

    Also, in both lander the CDU and SPD respectively overperformed, floating voters shifted their way to prevent an AFD first place.

    Linke is the most invasion-skeptical after AFD, especially in the east.

    I would be surprised if there are “election irregularties” that hedge the leftist coalition, which sits 1-2 seats away from a seat majority, to an absolute majority. This means the CDU can dodge tolerating a minority government, or forming a coalition with AFD and risking expulsion.

    The establishment also probably has an “October surprise” for Hocke (they did in Brandenburg), and will do anything to spike turnout out of fear that he is the scariest AFD leader.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @216

    “ Linke is the most invasion-skeptical after AFD, especially in the east.”

    Does this translate into any actual action? Joining AfD in votes?

  9. @216
    @Lot

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landtagswahl_in_Sachsen_2019

    Overperformed 2-3% in Sachsen

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landtagswahl_in_Brandenburg_2019

    Overperformed 2-3% in Brandenburg

    Also, in both lander the CDU and SPD respectively overperformed, floating voters shifted their way to prevent an AFD first place.

    Linke is the most invasion-skeptical after AFD, especially in the east.

    I would be surprised if there are "election irregularties" that hedge the leftist coalition, which sits 1-2 seats away from a seat majority, to an absolute majority. This means the CDU can dodge tolerating a minority government, or forming a coalition with AFD and risking expulsion.

    The establishment also probably has an "October surprise" for Hocke (they did in Brandenburg), and will do anything to spike turnout out of fear that he is the scariest AFD leader.

    Replies: @Lot

    “ Linke is the most invasion-skeptical after AFD, especially in the east.”

    Does this translate into any actual action? Joining AfD in votes?

  10. Need more analysis, is it just a case of the sane leftists ceasing to identify as a liberals?

    • Replies: @216
    @LondonBob

    Generational Eclipse?

    , @Twodees Partain
    @LondonBob

    Here I was thinking that "sane leftists" was an oxymoron.

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @LondonBob

    To the contrary, whites are increasingly identifying as liberal/conservative at the expense of moderate.

  11. @LondonBob
    Need more analysis, is it just a case of the sane leftists ceasing to identify as a liberals?

    Replies: @216, @Twodees Partain, @Audacious Epigone

    Generational Eclipse?

  12. Yes, whites are the most suicidally altruistic of the races. Blacks may say they don’t want whitey’s help, but they sure take it. Who would you rather have as a neighbor again?

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Always been the point Kevin MacDonald has made.

    , @Ash Williams
    @MikeatMikedotMike


    Yes, whites are the most suicidally altruistic of the races.
     
    I'm pretty sure that ends with the Boomers, and the loss of mass-media propaganda by the Learned Elders of Wye.
    , @Mark G.
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    White liberals are like shmoos. Shmoos were creatures in the Li'l Abner comic strip by Al Capp that were eager to sacrifice themselves to be eaten by others.

    Replies: @Rosie

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Touche.

    On the other hand, they--white liberals--really, really want badwhites like you and me to have blacks and aliens as neighbors.

    Replies: @216, @LoutishAngloQuebecker

  13. @MikeatMikedotMike
    Yes, whites are the most suicidally altruistic of the races. Blacks may say they don't want whitey's help, but they sure take it. Who would you rather have as a neighbor again?

    Replies: @LondonBob, @Ash Williams, @Mark G., @Audacious Epigone

    Always been the point Kevin MacDonald has made.

  14. At least part of this will be due to increasing numbers of the saner whites who lean to the left realizing that liberalism is rapidly becoming a literal Jim Jones cult on a national scale, and so opting out. We have seen the phenomenon at least since Reagan that whites are leaving the Democratic party and its affiliates. I forget right now which year was the last one a Dem candidate got a majority of the white vote, but it was a good long while ago.

    Thus, the remnant who still self-identify as liberals will be (and become) an ever more purified, stringently selected strain of wokeness, freed from the legacy constituencies of rust belt white workers who thought leftism had some idea of caring about the poor in it, as opposed to simply promoting unlimited immigration, affirmative action and transsexualism for their children.

    This is not to say that the cumulative effects of ever-intensifying brainwashing in education and media are not also working their magic. But I predict we are reaching an age where that will be facing diminishing returns, except in the richest circles who can still afford to hide in their bubbles of relative normalcy behind their high walls and armed guards. As diversity strikes ever greater numbers of whites in their daily lives, they come to notice the disconnect between the Hollywood and New York Times propaganda and observable reality.

    And that is when they begin to actively look up the myriad founts of truth which already exist online today, hidden in plain sight from the masses by their own mere incuriosity.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @John Regan

    Indeed, it is imperative that good information is there for people when they are ready to discover it.

    , @iffen
    @John Regan

    And that is when they begin to actively look up the myriad founts of truth which already exist online today, hidden in plain sight from the masses by their own mere incuriosity.

    Whatever is in Merriam-Webster for pipedream needs to be deleted and replaced with this sentence.

  15. So, 42% of black ppl are racist bastards?

    …Sounds about right.

  16. @MikeatMikedotMike
    Yes, whites are the most suicidally altruistic of the races. Blacks may say they don't want whitey's help, but they sure take it. Who would you rather have as a neighbor again?

    Replies: @LondonBob, @Ash Williams, @Mark G., @Audacious Epigone

    Yes, whites are the most suicidally altruistic of the races.

    I’m pretty sure that ends with the Boomers, and the loss of mass-media propaganda by the Learned Elders of Wye.

  17. @MikeatMikedotMike
    Yes, whites are the most suicidally altruistic of the races. Blacks may say they don't want whitey's help, but they sure take it. Who would you rather have as a neighbor again?

    Replies: @LondonBob, @Ash Williams, @Mark G., @Audacious Epigone

    White liberals are like shmoos. Shmoos were creatures in the Li’l Abner comic strip by Al Capp that were eager to sacrifice themselves to be eaten by others.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    @Mark G.


    White liberals are like shmoos. Shmoos were creatures in the Li’l Abner comic strip by Al Capp that were eager to sacrifice themselves to be eaten by others.

     

    https://www.himalayanart.org/items/50196
  18. Take all the guns off the white folk, and give those guns to the blacks.

  19. @216
    Off topic:

    Polls, Canada

    http://angusreid.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/2019.10.1_Vote_October.pdf

    Major generation gap, young men in Canada give one-fifth of their votes to the NDP, if they mirrored older (Old Stock) generations, this would be a Conservative rout.

    Boomer women finally turn on Justin. Soft Green party support decelerates in favor of tactical voting.

    Replies: @LoutishAngloQuebecker

    Take a look at the right wing People’s Party though. For young men it’s at 6%, double the rest. Considering that this cohort is only 60% white, it means a considerable amount of young white men are voting PPC.

    I have to be honest, though. Canadian politics are different than American politics, and it’s not uncommon for the Conservatives to do well among non-whites.

    In Toronto, for instance, the whiter urban areas always vote left, while the immigrant filled GTA is a perpetual battleground. The scorecard kind of looks like this:

    Urban whites (left wing)
    Rural whites (far right wing)
    Suburban whites (right wing)

    1st generation non-white, employed (right wing)
    1st generation non-white, muslim/negro/refugee/on welfare (far left wing)
    2nd generation non-white (anti white racist – might vote right wing for lower taxes though)

    Some of the biggest haters of muslims and black immigrants are other immigrants themselves. Unless you’re on the ground you won’t hear this from the MSM.

    As much as I wish I could say “muh brown folx voting left wing”, the truth is that much of the ndp support comes from brainwashed urban whites, who are almost 70% left wing.

    • Replies: @216
    @LoutishAngloQuebecker

    The NDP sounds pretty good here.

    https://ipolitics.ca/2019/09/25/singh-pitches-15-foreign-buyers-tax-as-way-to-ease-housing-costs/

    I'm unsure if his tax (which isn't going to be enacted in any case) would nullify the provincial taxes, or add on to them. If so, almost no one would pay 35% combined tax to get into British Columbia.


    The report also found that the province did not have a single federal RCMP officer dedicated to investigating money laundering.
     
    No, the RCMP's job is to pretend to be Neo-Nazis online, not fight actual crimes.

    https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/welcome-in-canada-victoria-businessman-battling-foreign-homebuyer-tax

    Mr. Chang's story doesn't add up.
  20. I’m sure if it was mathematically possible that 150% of white libs would say they favour AA for AAs.

    • Replies: @216
    @The Alarmist

    Decades of opposing A/A has brought lots of cheap white male votes for the GOP, but at the cost of middle class black support. Asian voters fundementally don't care about A/A, they want a lavishly funded public education system; such that a Cal State is acceptable if you are locked out of a UC.

    When in office, the GOP legislators never do anything to dismantle A/A; which has always come from ballot initiatives.

    So tbh, the GOP should drop their pro-forma opposition to A/A, and trade some younger white males over to the left. In return, demand tighter enforcement of age discrimination laws to mollify older white GOP voters.

    , @Twodees Partain
    @The Alarmist

    Math doesn't click with those types. They believe that Hillary got 150% of the votes in solidly democrat precincts.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

  21. The Great Awokening among white liberals (liberal or very liberal), in contrast, is remarkable. Support levels lift off from 2012 and continue to ascend through to 2018, the latest year for which data is available. White liberals are now modestly more supportive of preferences for blacks at the expense of whites than blacks are, and it seems more likely than not that the gap between liberal whites and blacks will continue to grow into 2020 and beyond.

    It is love of country that propels me towards declaring total war on the upper middle class Globalizer Whites and their White Globalizer apparatchik enforcers. These upper middle class Whites have used globalization and financialization and mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration as demographic weapons to attack and destroy lower middle class Whites and regular middle class Whites.

    It has been clear for many years that certain upper middle class White money-grubbers have been waging a war to the death on lower middle class Whites and regular middle class Whites. We all know that some of the most vicious and disgusting attacks on White Core America have come from money-grubbing upper middle class Whites without a college degree(UMCWWCDs).

    These rancid Republican Party upper middle class White without college degrees are some of the very same money-grubbing scum who have been using the illegal alien invader cheap labor business model to attack White Core American civilization. You can find these horrid Republican Party money-grubbers donating big loot to the Republican Party politician whores who push mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration.

    Blacks are being used as battering rams to completely and totally destroy White Core America, and it is the disgusting money-grubbing scum in the Republican Party who are cheering them on.

    The enemy of White Core America is the upper middle class Whites and the vile, boot licking White Globalizer apparatchiks in BOTH the Republican Party and the Democrat Party.

    The horrible goons at the Murdoch-controlled Wall Street Journal exemplify this anti-White madness to a degree never before imaginable. The WSJ just did a propaganda piece questioning whether Joe Biden will be able to rely on the AUNT JEMIMA STRATEGY to endure losses in Iowa and New Hampshire and still win the Democrat Party presidential nomination. I want Biden to win the Democrat Party nomination for president so as to massively increase the vote for the Green Party in the general election!

    I ain’t getting pulled into no baloney BS crud about Black — Black — Black — Black — Blacketty — Black — Black business. The enemy of White Core America is plutocrat Jews and plutocrat Whites and upper middle class Whites and their apparatchik White Globalizer goons.

    The hostile Blacks are merciful, Globalizer Plutocrat Whites and upper middle class Globalizer Whites are the dreaded enemy of White Core America!

    GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Charles Pewitt

    Figurative total war, I assume.

    I hate to be such a, well, schoolmarm, but please kindly refrain from declaring total war on specific groups of people.

    Replies: @Charles Pewitt

    , @Rosie
    @Charles Pewitt


    We all know that some of the most vicious and disgusting attacks on White Core America have come from money-grubbing upper middle class Whites without a college degree(UMCWWCDs).
     
    Is that so, Mr. Prewitt? I would have thought it was the degree-holding UMC Whites who were the problem. What am I missing?

    Replies: @Charles Pewitt

    , @Twodees Partain
    @Charles Pewitt

    You must have an entirely different scale than I do if you are attributing that behavior to upper middle class people of any race. Middle class people, even the upper middle class by my scale, lack the money to have the kind of influence needed to set policy the way you claim.

    Also, I've never met any upper middle class people without college degrees.

  22. a nice proxy for ethnomasochism among whites

    Viewing this trend as “ethnomasochism” only makes sense if the lens is exclusively racial in nature. This kind of virtue signaling is not irrational if it is viewed from both ideological and class angles.

    For example, if one were to examine one manifestation of this supposed “ethnomasochism,” affirmative action, we see what the distortions are from quantifiable reality:(From: https://twitter.com/a_centrism/status/1179136042634502144/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1179136042634502144&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unz.com%2Fisteve%2F)

    Seen from this perspective, this strategy (if we could call it that) results in white elites (yes, a disproportionately large fraction of whom are Jews, if Ron Unz were to be believed) 1) establishing their ideological bona fide all the while 2) replacing their elite segment competitors with blacks and Hispanics rather than Asians.

    That’s a win-win for the practitioners of this strategy. Meanwhile the people who get the rough end of the stick are non-elite whites and less-than superstar Asians.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Twinkie

    While I don't support traditional AA, I am a believer in the idea that private institutions built by a people should primarily serve the interests of those people. So, with the Ivies, that would be WASPs.

    They made the sacrifices to build them for their own progeny. I don't know what the numbers for WASPs are, but I'd guess that they are down less than a fifth. That's pretty ridiculous. BTW, I say that and I am not a WASP.

    Of course, I doubt it is really useful to go to Harvard beyond networking and the prestige.

    Replies: @Anon, @Charles Pewitt, @Twinkie

    , @AaronB
    @Twinkie

    Interesting.

    According to Ron Unz, white admissions would rise significantly, resulting in a majority white student body, and Asian admissions would hardly rise.

    Replies: @Anon, @Twinkie

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @Twinkie

    While most white liberals are not elites, there is obviously a lot of truth to this.

    Hell, if there weren't, we'd see large numbers of these white liberals who want preferential treatment for blacks at the expense of whites giving up their own positions and urging their institutions to replace themselves with black applicants. We do not see this, of course.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @jimmyriddle
    @Twinkie

    Harvard doesn't pick just superstar Asians. Some Asians get in due to LGBT status, refugee status etc.

    This has the added bonus of muddying the waters for anyone looking at outcomes by race.

  23. 216 says: • Website
    @The Alarmist
    I'm sure if it was mathematically possible that 150% of white libs would say they favour AA for AAs.

    Replies: @216, @Twodees Partain

    Decades of opposing A/A has brought lots of cheap white male votes for the GOP, but at the cost of middle class black support. Asian voters fundementally don’t care about A/A, they want a lavishly funded public education system; such that a Cal State is acceptable if you are locked out of a UC.

    When in office, the GOP legislators never do anything to dismantle A/A; which has always come from ballot initiatives.

    So tbh, the GOP should drop their pro-forma opposition to A/A, and trade some younger white males over to the left. In return, demand tighter enforcement of age discrimination laws to mollify older white GOP voters.

  24. @Twinkie

    a nice proxy for ethnomasochism among whites
     
    Viewing this trend as "ethnomasochism" only makes sense if the lens is exclusively racial in nature. This kind of virtue signaling is not irrational if it is viewed from both ideological and class angles.

    For example, if one were to examine one manifestation of this supposed "ethnomasochism," affirmative action, we see what the distortions are from quantifiable reality:
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EF0h-yfXoAAtfz-.jpg
    (From: https://twitter.com/a_centrism/status/1179136042634502144/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1179136042634502144&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unz.com%2Fisteve%2F)

    Seen from this perspective, this strategy (if we could call it that) results in white elites (yes, a disproportionately large fraction of whom are Jews, if Ron Unz were to be believed) 1) establishing their ideological bona fide all the while 2) replacing their elite segment competitors with blacks and Hispanics rather than Asians.

    That's a win-win for the practitioners of this strategy. Meanwhile the people who get the rough end of the stick are non-elite whites and less-than superstar Asians.

    Replies: @songbird, @AaronB, @Audacious Epigone, @jimmyriddle

    While I don’t support traditional AA, I am a believer in the idea that private institutions built by a people should primarily serve the interests of those people. So, with the Ivies, that would be WASPs.

    They made the sacrifices to build them for their own progeny. I don’t know what the numbers for WASPs are, but I’d guess that they are down less than a fifth. That’s pretty ridiculous. BTW, I say that and I am not a WASP.

    Of course, I doubt it is really useful to go to Harvard beyond networking and the prestige.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @songbird

    Harvard was instituted by people who made sacrifices to provide learned Puritan clergymen for the colonies; is there much of a market for that any more?

    I do see what you mean, though.

    , @Charles Pewitt
    @songbird


    They made the sacrifices to build them for their own progeny. I don’t know what the numbers for WASPs are, but I’d guess that they are down less than a fifth. That’s pretty ridiculous. BTW, I say that and I am not a WASP.

     

    Harvard was started for Puritan preacher men to learn the word and the words necessary to be a preacher. East Anglians in Massachusetts Bay Colony started Harvard.

    About the time beaver pelts made some loot for Puritan East Anglians was the time Harvard broadened its horizons. Massachusetts Bay Colony was always about the money, just like the Virginia Company.

    Harvard has gotten drug dealer money and slave ship money and Harvard has produced some of the worst scoundrels in American history.

    Harvard has recently made out like a bandit by taking advantage of the monetary extremism from the Federal Reserve Bank to increase its ill-gotten gains in its endowment loot pile to 40 billion dollars. Harvard is a hedge fund sitting on a pile of loot made monstrous by the Fed-induced asset bubbles in stocks, bonds and real estate.

    The Harvard 40 billion dollar loot pile must be taxed down to 4 million dollars. 4 million dollars is what a good utility infielder might make on the Boston Red Sox.

    Harvard has too much power.

    WASPs are of a similar percentage in relation to Americans of English ancestry as Jews are to their percentage of the American population. Most people of English ancestry are not what I would call WASPs.

    Tweet from 2014:

    https://twitter.com/CharlesPewitt/status/521751234131550209?s=20
    , @Twinkie
    @songbird


    I am a believer in the idea that private institutions built by a people should primarily serve the interests of those people. So, with the Ivies, that would be WASPs.
     
    Why stop there? Following that logic, only the known, verifiable descendants who follow the establishing religion* of the institutions should be able attend. *Except Brown, which was explicitly non-denominational.

    Replies: @songbird

  25. @Twinkie

    a nice proxy for ethnomasochism among whites
     
    Viewing this trend as "ethnomasochism" only makes sense if the lens is exclusively racial in nature. This kind of virtue signaling is not irrational if it is viewed from both ideological and class angles.

    For example, if one were to examine one manifestation of this supposed "ethnomasochism," affirmative action, we see what the distortions are from quantifiable reality:
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EF0h-yfXoAAtfz-.jpg
    (From: https://twitter.com/a_centrism/status/1179136042634502144/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1179136042634502144&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unz.com%2Fisteve%2F)

    Seen from this perspective, this strategy (if we could call it that) results in white elites (yes, a disproportionately large fraction of whom are Jews, if Ron Unz were to be believed) 1) establishing their ideological bona fide all the while 2) replacing their elite segment competitors with blacks and Hispanics rather than Asians.

    That's a win-win for the practitioners of this strategy. Meanwhile the people who get the rough end of the stick are non-elite whites and less-than superstar Asians.

    Replies: @songbird, @AaronB, @Audacious Epigone, @jimmyriddle

    Interesting.

    According to Ron Unz, white admissions would rise significantly, resulting in a majority white student body, and Asian admissions would hardly rise.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @AaronB


    Asian admissions would hardly rise
     
    Citation?
    , @Twinkie
    @AaronB


    According to Ron Unz, white admissions would rise significantly, resulting in a majority white student body, and Asian admissions would hardly rise.
     
    According to his Meritocracy article, the white fraction would stay the same while the Asian fraction would increase (at the expense of Hispanics and blacks). Meanwhile, the composition of whites would change - fewer Jews and more non-Jewish heartland whites.

    Replies: @216, @res

  26. 216 says: • Website
    @LoutishAngloQuebecker
    @216

    Take a look at the right wing People's Party though. For young men it's at 6%, double the rest. Considering that this cohort is only 60% white, it means a considerable amount of young white men are voting PPC.

    I have to be honest, though. Canadian politics are different than American politics, and it's not uncommon for the Conservatives to do well among non-whites.

    In Toronto, for instance, the whiter urban areas always vote left, while the immigrant filled GTA is a perpetual battleground. The scorecard kind of looks like this:

    Urban whites (left wing)
    Rural whites (far right wing)
    Suburban whites (right wing)

    1st generation non-white, employed (right wing)
    1st generation non-white, muslim/negro/refugee/on welfare (far left wing)
    2nd generation non-white (anti white racist - might vote right wing for lower taxes though)

    Some of the biggest haters of muslims and black immigrants are other immigrants themselves. Unless you're on the ground you won't hear this from the MSM.

    As much as I wish I could say "muh brown folx voting left wing", the truth is that much of the ndp support comes from brainwashed urban whites, who are almost 70% left wing.

    Replies: @216

    The NDP sounds pretty good here.

    https://ipolitics.ca/2019/09/25/singh-pitches-15-foreign-buyers-tax-as-way-to-ease-housing-costs/

    I’m unsure if his tax (which isn’t going to be enacted in any case) would nullify the provincial taxes, or add on to them. If so, almost no one would pay 35% combined tax to get into British Columbia.

    The report also found that the province did not have a single federal RCMP officer dedicated to investigating money laundering.

    No, the RCMP’s job is to pretend to be Neo-Nazis online, not fight actual crimes.

    https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/welcome-in-canada-victoria-businessman-battling-foreign-homebuyer-tax

    Mr. Chang’s story doesn’t add up.

  27. @songbird
    @Twinkie

    While I don't support traditional AA, I am a believer in the idea that private institutions built by a people should primarily serve the interests of those people. So, with the Ivies, that would be WASPs.

    They made the sacrifices to build them for their own progeny. I don't know what the numbers for WASPs are, but I'd guess that they are down less than a fifth. That's pretty ridiculous. BTW, I say that and I am not a WASP.

    Of course, I doubt it is really useful to go to Harvard beyond networking and the prestige.

    Replies: @Anon, @Charles Pewitt, @Twinkie

    Harvard was instituted by people who made sacrifices to provide learned Puritan clergymen for the colonies; is there much of a market for that any more?

    I do see what you mean, though.

  28. @AaronB
    @Twinkie

    Interesting.

    According to Ron Unz, white admissions would rise significantly, resulting in a majority white student body, and Asian admissions would hardly rise.

    Replies: @Anon, @Twinkie

    Asian admissions would hardly rise

    Citation?

  29. @songbird
    @Twinkie

    While I don't support traditional AA, I am a believer in the idea that private institutions built by a people should primarily serve the interests of those people. So, with the Ivies, that would be WASPs.

    They made the sacrifices to build them for their own progeny. I don't know what the numbers for WASPs are, but I'd guess that they are down less than a fifth. That's pretty ridiculous. BTW, I say that and I am not a WASP.

    Of course, I doubt it is really useful to go to Harvard beyond networking and the prestige.

    Replies: @Anon, @Charles Pewitt, @Twinkie

    They made the sacrifices to build them for their own progeny. I don’t know what the numbers for WASPs are, but I’d guess that they are down less than a fifth. That’s pretty ridiculous. BTW, I say that and I am not a WASP.

    Harvard was started for Puritan preacher men to learn the word and the words necessary to be a preacher. East Anglians in Massachusetts Bay Colony started Harvard.

    About the time beaver pelts made some loot for Puritan East Anglians was the time Harvard broadened its horizons. Massachusetts Bay Colony was always about the money, just like the Virginia Company.

    Harvard has gotten drug dealer money and slave ship money and Harvard has produced some of the worst scoundrels in American history.

    Harvard has recently made out like a bandit by taking advantage of the monetary extremism from the Federal Reserve Bank to increase its ill-gotten gains in its endowment loot pile to 40 billion dollars. Harvard is a hedge fund sitting on a pile of loot made monstrous by the Fed-induced asset bubbles in stocks, bonds and real estate.

    The Harvard 40 billion dollar loot pile must be taxed down to 4 million dollars. 4 million dollars is what a good utility infielder might make on the Boston Red Sox.

    Harvard has too much power.

    WASPs are of a similar percentage in relation to Americans of English ancestry as Jews are to their percentage of the American population. Most people of English ancestry are not what I would call WASPs.

    Tweet from 2014:

  30. @Achmed E. Newman
    @216


    If we want to increase the employment of white men, this looks like the place to start.
     
    "WE" don't need to do anything, assuming your "we" means "your" governments. No, get rid of the constraining rules on everyone, including the unconstitutional sick AA program, fire all the HR ladies*, and then employers will hire the right people to get the work done.

    .

    * See also: Part 2, an Interlude on Toby Flenderson, and Part 3.

    Replies: @Twodees Partain

    Ok, so you kind of beat me to it. I was about to ask ol’ 216, “Where’d you get this ‘we’ shit, anyways?”. Not quite the same thing, but it was enough to stop me.

  31. @LondonBob
    Need more analysis, is it just a case of the sane leftists ceasing to identify as a liberals?

    Replies: @216, @Twodees Partain, @Audacious Epigone

    Here I was thinking that “sane leftists” was an oxymoron.

  32. @The Alarmist
    I'm sure if it was mathematically possible that 150% of white libs would say they favour AA for AAs.

    Replies: @216, @Twodees Partain

    Math doesn’t click with those types. They believe that Hillary got 150% of the votes in solidly democrat precincts.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @Twodees Partain


    They believe that Hillary got 150% of the votes in solidly democrat precincts.
     
    Because she did.
  33. @songbird
    @Twinkie

    While I don't support traditional AA, I am a believer in the idea that private institutions built by a people should primarily serve the interests of those people. So, with the Ivies, that would be WASPs.

    They made the sacrifices to build them for their own progeny. I don't know what the numbers for WASPs are, but I'd guess that they are down less than a fifth. That's pretty ridiculous. BTW, I say that and I am not a WASP.

    Of course, I doubt it is really useful to go to Harvard beyond networking and the prestige.

    Replies: @Anon, @Charles Pewitt, @Twinkie

    I am a believer in the idea that private institutions built by a people should primarily serve the interests of those people. So, with the Ivies, that would be WASPs.

    Why stop there? Following that logic, only the known, verifiable descendants who follow the establishing religion* of the institutions should be able attend. *Except Brown, which was explicitly non-denominational.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Twinkie

    Protestantism is now too fractured and denuded to be a faithful sorting mechanism, according to specific sect. Besides, there are political complications from not having established state churches anymore.

    They might adapt moral codes that are originalist, while serving mainline protestant sects. Obviously, I am speaking hypothetically. The institutions have been deconstructed and are not likely to be reconstructed.

    However, I think WASPS should be at least 51-60% of the student body (or more). I don't see what is so unreasonable about that. Asians or Jews haven't given WASPs any of their institutions, nor would they ever. Therefore they should be grateful to accept what WASPs decide to allow them.

    Replies: @Anon, @Anon, @Twinkie

  34. @AaronB
    @Twinkie

    Interesting.

    According to Ron Unz, white admissions would rise significantly, resulting in a majority white student body, and Asian admissions would hardly rise.

    Replies: @Anon, @Twinkie

    According to Ron Unz, white admissions would rise significantly, resulting in a majority white student body, and Asian admissions would hardly rise.

    According to his Meritocracy article, the white fraction would stay the same while the Asian fraction would increase (at the expense of Hispanics and blacks). Meanwhile, the composition of whites would change – fewer Jews and more non-Jewish heartland whites.

    • Replies: @216
    @Twinkie

    Does this account for legacy and athletes?

    , @res
    @Twinkie


    According to his Meritocracy article, the white fraction would stay the same while the Asian fraction would increase (at the expense of Hispanics and blacks). Meanwhile, the composition of whites would change – fewer Jews and more non-Jewish heartland whites.
     
    Do you have a more explicit citation (that article is 26k words long: https://www.unz.com/runz/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy ) for the "white fraction would stay the same" part? Because looking at this article: https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-racial-discrimination-at-harvard/
    and these graphics (assuming "high ability student" population is a rough proxy for post-admission reform proportions at Harvard):

    https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/f4-large.jpg

    https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/eliteenrollment-large.jpg

    It appears that the non-Jewish white population at Harvard would increase about 3x (so roughly from 18% to 54%) while the Jewish population would be reduced roughly from 26% to 6%. So total white population would go roughly from 44% to 60%.

    I tend to think Ron's % Jewish numbers at Harvard are high, but most of the numbers given by his critics seem too low (and tend to be higher when they are bragging about achievement rather than defending admissions practices) so I am not sure where reality lies.

    P.S. And to bring this back towards the blog post topic, I wonder what the high ability student ratios graph would look like if blacks and Hispanics were included ; )

    Replies: @Twinkie, @216

  35. @Twinkie
    @AaronB


    According to Ron Unz, white admissions would rise significantly, resulting in a majority white student body, and Asian admissions would hardly rise.
     
    According to his Meritocracy article, the white fraction would stay the same while the Asian fraction would increase (at the expense of Hispanics and blacks). Meanwhile, the composition of whites would change - fewer Jews and more non-Jewish heartland whites.

    Replies: @216, @res

    Does this account for legacy and athletes?

  36. @Mr. Rational
    After 50+ years of utter failure to achieve, it is INSANE that anyone could think that preferences could fix the deficiencies of blacks in Euro-American society.

    INSANE.

    Yet they still profess it.  Perhaps the only cure is to force them to practice it, personally.  Uplift the Africans, or die trying.  Maybe enough dead will educate the rest.  Existential threats have a way of concentrating the mind in ways that lesser incentives do not.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    For an increasing number of liberal whites, efficacy in getting rid of disparate impact may not be the primary driver. Sticking it to badwhites is the real reason.

  37. @LondonBob
    Need more analysis, is it just a case of the sane leftists ceasing to identify as a liberals?

    Replies: @216, @Twodees Partain, @Audacious Epigone

    To the contrary, whites are increasingly identifying as liberal/conservative at the expense of moderate.

  38. @MikeatMikedotMike
    Yes, whites are the most suicidally altruistic of the races. Blacks may say they don't want whitey's help, but they sure take it. Who would you rather have as a neighbor again?

    Replies: @LondonBob, @Ash Williams, @Mark G., @Audacious Epigone

    Touche.

    On the other hand, they–white liberals–really, really want badwhites like you and me to have blacks and aliens as neighbors.

    • Replies: @216
    @Audacious Epigone

    A strange form of colonization, being rendered into a despised minority as paternalism.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    , @LoutishAngloQuebecker
    @Audacious Epigone

    That's why it was such a brilliant idea when Trump wanted to release illegal aliens into rich neighborhoods.

    Too bad he cucked.

    It really is colonization... white liberals (and their (((friends)))) are colonizing their own people by inviting invaders into the country! It really is a clown world.

    This has been pointed out here before, but... to the guys like the El Paso shooter... random Mexicans ain't the problem. The problem is lunatic white liberals who want to destroy all other whites.

  39. @Charles Pewitt

    The Great Awokening among white liberals (liberal or very liberal), in contrast, is remarkable. Support levels lift off from 2012 and continue to ascend through to 2018, the latest year for which data is available. White liberals are now modestly more supportive of preferences for blacks at the expense of whites than blacks are, and it seems more likely than not that the gap between liberal whites and blacks will continue to grow into 2020 and beyond.

     

    It is love of country that propels me towards declaring total war on the upper middle class Globalizer Whites and their White Globalizer apparatchik enforcers. These upper middle class Whites have used globalization and financialization and mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration as demographic weapons to attack and destroy lower middle class Whites and regular middle class Whites.

    It has been clear for many years that certain upper middle class White money-grubbers have been waging a war to the death on lower middle class Whites and regular middle class Whites. We all know that some of the most vicious and disgusting attacks on White Core America have come from money-grubbing upper middle class Whites without a college degree(UMCWWCDs).

    These rancid Republican Party upper middle class White without college degrees are some of the very same money-grubbing scum who have been using the illegal alien invader cheap labor business model to attack White Core American civilization. You can find these horrid Republican Party money-grubbers donating big loot to the Republican Party politician whores who push mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration.

    Blacks are being used as battering rams to completely and totally destroy White Core America, and it is the disgusting money-grubbing scum in the Republican Party who are cheering them on.

    The enemy of White Core America is the upper middle class Whites and the vile, boot licking White Globalizer apparatchiks in BOTH the Republican Party and the Democrat Party.

    The horrible goons at the Murdoch-controlled Wall Street Journal exemplify this anti-White madness to a degree never before imaginable. The WSJ just did a propaganda piece questioning whether Joe Biden will be able to rely on the AUNT JEMIMA STRATEGY to endure losses in Iowa and New Hampshire and still win the Democrat Party presidential nomination. I want Biden to win the Democrat Party nomination for president so as to massively increase the vote for the Green Party in the general election!

    I ain't getting pulled into no baloney BS crud about Black -- Black -- Black -- Black -- Blacketty -- Black -- Black business. The enemy of White Core America is plutocrat Jews and plutocrat Whites and upper middle class Whites and their apparatchik White Globalizer goons.

    The hostile Blacks are merciful, Globalizer Plutocrat Whites and upper middle class Globalizer Whites are the dreaded enemy of White Core America!

    GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @Rosie, @Twodees Partain

    Figurative total war, I assume.

    I hate to be such a, well, schoolmarm, but please kindly refrain from declaring total war on specific groups of people.

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
    @Audacious Epigone


    Figurative total war, I assume.

     

    Figurative Total War Must Be Waged On The Globalizers And Plutocrats And The Upper Middle Class Whites And Their Apparatchik Enforcer Goons

    Nigel Farage caused a stir with his rhetoric about dealing with English government worker globalizers who were doing everything they could to prevent England from leaving the concentration camp of nations called the EU.

    Farage's comments were thought to be too closely reminiscent of the horrible crime wave that has made once decent and civilized London a disgusting Third World Hellhole full of violent crime of a most dreadful nature.

    So Farage, as is his playful wont, kicked it up a notch to Viking level with his clarifying comment.

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1177932689321730050
  40. @Twinkie

    a nice proxy for ethnomasochism among whites
     
    Viewing this trend as "ethnomasochism" only makes sense if the lens is exclusively racial in nature. This kind of virtue signaling is not irrational if it is viewed from both ideological and class angles.

    For example, if one were to examine one manifestation of this supposed "ethnomasochism," affirmative action, we see what the distortions are from quantifiable reality:
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EF0h-yfXoAAtfz-.jpg
    (From: https://twitter.com/a_centrism/status/1179136042634502144/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1179136042634502144&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unz.com%2Fisteve%2F)

    Seen from this perspective, this strategy (if we could call it that) results in white elites (yes, a disproportionately large fraction of whom are Jews, if Ron Unz were to be believed) 1) establishing their ideological bona fide all the while 2) replacing their elite segment competitors with blacks and Hispanics rather than Asians.

    That's a win-win for the practitioners of this strategy. Meanwhile the people who get the rough end of the stick are non-elite whites and less-than superstar Asians.

    Replies: @songbird, @AaronB, @Audacious Epigone, @jimmyriddle

    While most white liberals are not elites, there is obviously a lot of truth to this.

    Hell, if there weren’t, we’d see large numbers of these white liberals who want preferential treatment for blacks at the expense of whites giving up their own positions and urging their institutions to replace themselves with black applicants. We do not see this, of course.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Audacious Epigone


    While most white liberals are not elites
     
    You are right, they are not, but they either ape the elites ideologically or are otherwise "aspirational." Indeed, that desire to be "included" in exalted company would fuel a stronger opinion than held by the elites! (Rather like the stereotypical "ordinary" communist female commissar acting more hardline and vicious in a desperate attempt to be noted by the - male - upper echelon of the communist leadership.)

    We see the same dynamic in small college towns in rural states. Those small college town white liberals are far more desperately radical in opinion ("We have culture here too!") than someone who lives in Brooklyn and occasionally has to deal with blacks and Hispanics.

    Check out a very good cinematic treatment of this called "The Last Supper": https://youtu.be/jNPSHydODoI
  41. @John Regan
    At least part of this will be due to increasing numbers of the saner whites who lean to the left realizing that liberalism is rapidly becoming a literal Jim Jones cult on a national scale, and so opting out. We have seen the phenomenon at least since Reagan that whites are leaving the Democratic party and its affiliates. I forget right now which year was the last one a Dem candidate got a majority of the white vote, but it was a good long while ago.

    Thus, the remnant who still self-identify as liberals will be (and become) an ever more purified, stringently selected strain of wokeness, freed from the legacy constituencies of rust belt white workers who thought leftism had some idea of caring about the poor in it, as opposed to simply promoting unlimited immigration, affirmative action and transsexualism for their children.

    This is not to say that the cumulative effects of ever-intensifying brainwashing in education and media are not also working their magic. But I predict we are reaching an age where that will be facing diminishing returns, except in the richest circles who can still afford to hide in their bubbles of relative normalcy behind their high walls and armed guards. As diversity strikes ever greater numbers of whites in their daily lives, they come to notice the disconnect between the Hollywood and New York Times propaganda and observable reality.

    And that is when they begin to actively look up the myriad founts of truth which already exist online today, hidden in plain sight from the masses by their own mere incuriosity.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @iffen

    Indeed, it is imperative that good information is there for people when they are ready to discover it.

  42. @Mark G.
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    White liberals are like shmoos. Shmoos were creatures in the Li'l Abner comic strip by Al Capp that were eager to sacrifice themselves to be eaten by others.

    Replies: @Rosie

    White liberals are like shmoos. Shmoos were creatures in the Li’l Abner comic strip by Al Capp that were eager to sacrifice themselves to be eaten by others.

    https://www.himalayanart.org/items/50196

  43. I am guessing part of this is due to white liberals being relatively economically/educationally elite and figuring most of the affirmative action won’t hit them but whites further down the economic chain who mostly have different political views to boot.

    Never forgot that much of the white progressive agenda is not about redress but meting out punishment to the wicked, which are other whites with objectionable politics or personal beliefs.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  44. @Charles Pewitt

    The Great Awokening among white liberals (liberal or very liberal), in contrast, is remarkable. Support levels lift off from 2012 and continue to ascend through to 2018, the latest year for which data is available. White liberals are now modestly more supportive of preferences for blacks at the expense of whites than blacks are, and it seems more likely than not that the gap between liberal whites and blacks will continue to grow into 2020 and beyond.

     

    It is love of country that propels me towards declaring total war on the upper middle class Globalizer Whites and their White Globalizer apparatchik enforcers. These upper middle class Whites have used globalization and financialization and mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration as demographic weapons to attack and destroy lower middle class Whites and regular middle class Whites.

    It has been clear for many years that certain upper middle class White money-grubbers have been waging a war to the death on lower middle class Whites and regular middle class Whites. We all know that some of the most vicious and disgusting attacks on White Core America have come from money-grubbing upper middle class Whites without a college degree(UMCWWCDs).

    These rancid Republican Party upper middle class White without college degrees are some of the very same money-grubbing scum who have been using the illegal alien invader cheap labor business model to attack White Core American civilization. You can find these horrid Republican Party money-grubbers donating big loot to the Republican Party politician whores who push mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration.

    Blacks are being used as battering rams to completely and totally destroy White Core America, and it is the disgusting money-grubbing scum in the Republican Party who are cheering them on.

    The enemy of White Core America is the upper middle class Whites and the vile, boot licking White Globalizer apparatchiks in BOTH the Republican Party and the Democrat Party.

    The horrible goons at the Murdoch-controlled Wall Street Journal exemplify this anti-White madness to a degree never before imaginable. The WSJ just did a propaganda piece questioning whether Joe Biden will be able to rely on the AUNT JEMIMA STRATEGY to endure losses in Iowa and New Hampshire and still win the Democrat Party presidential nomination. I want Biden to win the Democrat Party nomination for president so as to massively increase the vote for the Green Party in the general election!

    I ain't getting pulled into no baloney BS crud about Black -- Black -- Black -- Black -- Blacketty -- Black -- Black business. The enemy of White Core America is plutocrat Jews and plutocrat Whites and upper middle class Whites and their apparatchik White Globalizer goons.

    The hostile Blacks are merciful, Globalizer Plutocrat Whites and upper middle class Globalizer Whites are the dreaded enemy of White Core America!

    GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @Rosie, @Twodees Partain

    We all know that some of the most vicious and disgusting attacks on White Core America have come from money-grubbing upper middle class Whites without a college degree(UMCWWCDs).

    Is that so, Mr. Prewitt? I would have thought it was the degree-holding UMC Whites who were the problem. What am I missing?

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
    @Rosie


    Is that so, Mr. Prewitt? I would have thought it was the degree-holding UMC Whites who were the problem. What am I missing?

     

    I don't know what you're missing, but your adding an R to my name that might fit for the 4 dozen other spellings of my surname but not my particular one.

    The White guys who are hiring all the illegal alien invaders for cheap labor and a lot of the White guys who are benefiting from real estate deals and rental income are upper middle class Whites. They may be stupid dolts who never read Thomas Hardy or Herman Melville, but by their income level they are upper middle class.

    You are most likely correct that the White upper middle class managerial types with their fancy university degrees are more numerically important in politics, but you can't discount the upper middle class Whites without college degrees who donate big loot to the GOP in order to protect their supply of cheap labor and high demand for real estate caused by mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration.

    Edsall of NY Times did something on it, and plenty of us have written about it over the years. My idea was to bribe the White broads by rhetorically bashing the greedy boobs in the GOP who push open borders mass immigration -- legal and illegal.

    You promise big fat government goodies for the White broad voters and then you just absolutely hammer the politicians and donors in the GOP Cheap Labor Faction.

    Bribe The White Broads -- very subtle!

    Replies: @Rosie

  45. @Twodees Partain
    @The Alarmist

    Math doesn't click with those types. They believe that Hillary got 150% of the votes in solidly democrat precincts.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    They believe that Hillary got 150% of the votes in solidly democrat precincts.

    Because she did.

  46. @Twinkie

    a nice proxy for ethnomasochism among whites
     
    Viewing this trend as "ethnomasochism" only makes sense if the lens is exclusively racial in nature. This kind of virtue signaling is not irrational if it is viewed from both ideological and class angles.

    For example, if one were to examine one manifestation of this supposed "ethnomasochism," affirmative action, we see what the distortions are from quantifiable reality:
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EF0h-yfXoAAtfz-.jpg
    (From: https://twitter.com/a_centrism/status/1179136042634502144/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1179136042634502144&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unz.com%2Fisteve%2F)

    Seen from this perspective, this strategy (if we could call it that) results in white elites (yes, a disproportionately large fraction of whom are Jews, if Ron Unz were to be believed) 1) establishing their ideological bona fide all the while 2) replacing their elite segment competitors with blacks and Hispanics rather than Asians.

    That's a win-win for the practitioners of this strategy. Meanwhile the people who get the rough end of the stick are non-elite whites and less-than superstar Asians.

    Replies: @songbird, @AaronB, @Audacious Epigone, @jimmyriddle

    Harvard doesn’t pick just superstar Asians. Some Asians get in due to LGBT status, refugee status etc.

    This has the added bonus of muddying the waters for anyone looking at outcomes by race.

  47. @Audacious Epigone
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Touche.

    On the other hand, they--white liberals--really, really want badwhites like you and me to have blacks and aliens as neighbors.

    Replies: @216, @LoutishAngloQuebecker

    A strange form of colonization, being rendered into a despised minority as paternalism.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @216

    It's Tony Blair's desire to rub the right's faces in diversity.

    Replies: @216

  48. @Audacious Epigone
    @Twinkie

    While most white liberals are not elites, there is obviously a lot of truth to this.

    Hell, if there weren't, we'd see large numbers of these white liberals who want preferential treatment for blacks at the expense of whites giving up their own positions and urging their institutions to replace themselves with black applicants. We do not see this, of course.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    While most white liberals are not elites

    You are right, they are not, but they either ape the elites ideologically or are otherwise “aspirational.” Indeed, that desire to be “included” in exalted company would fuel a stronger opinion than held by the elites! (Rather like the stereotypical “ordinary” communist female commissar acting more hardline and vicious in a desperate attempt to be noted by the – male – upper echelon of the communist leadership.)

    We see the same dynamic in small college towns in rural states. Those small college town white liberals are far more desperately radical in opinion (“We have culture here too!”) than someone who lives in Brooklyn and occasionally has to deal with blacks and Hispanics.

    Check out a very good cinematic treatment of this called “The Last Supper”:

  49. @John Regan
    At least part of this will be due to increasing numbers of the saner whites who lean to the left realizing that liberalism is rapidly becoming a literal Jim Jones cult on a national scale, and so opting out. We have seen the phenomenon at least since Reagan that whites are leaving the Democratic party and its affiliates. I forget right now which year was the last one a Dem candidate got a majority of the white vote, but it was a good long while ago.

    Thus, the remnant who still self-identify as liberals will be (and become) an ever more purified, stringently selected strain of wokeness, freed from the legacy constituencies of rust belt white workers who thought leftism had some idea of caring about the poor in it, as opposed to simply promoting unlimited immigration, affirmative action and transsexualism for their children.

    This is not to say that the cumulative effects of ever-intensifying brainwashing in education and media are not also working their magic. But I predict we are reaching an age where that will be facing diminishing returns, except in the richest circles who can still afford to hide in their bubbles of relative normalcy behind their high walls and armed guards. As diversity strikes ever greater numbers of whites in their daily lives, they come to notice the disconnect between the Hollywood and New York Times propaganda and observable reality.

    And that is when they begin to actively look up the myriad founts of truth which already exist online today, hidden in plain sight from the masses by their own mere incuriosity.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @iffen

    And that is when they begin to actively look up the myriad founts of truth which already exist online today, hidden in plain sight from the masses by their own mere incuriosity.

    Whatever is in Merriam-Webster for pipedream needs to be deleted and replaced with this sentence.

  50. @Twinkie
    @songbird


    I am a believer in the idea that private institutions built by a people should primarily serve the interests of those people. So, with the Ivies, that would be WASPs.
     
    Why stop there? Following that logic, only the known, verifiable descendants who follow the establishing religion* of the institutions should be able attend. *Except Brown, which was explicitly non-denominational.

    Replies: @songbird

    Protestantism is now too fractured and denuded to be a faithful sorting mechanism, according to specific sect. Besides, there are political complications from not having established state churches anymore.

    They might adapt moral codes that are originalist, while serving mainline protestant sects. Obviously, I am speaking hypothetically. The institutions have been deconstructed and are not likely to be reconstructed.

    However, I think WASPS should be at least 51-60% of the student body (or more). I don’t see what is so unreasonable about that. Asians or Jews haven’t given WASPs any of their institutions, nor would they ever. Therefore they should be grateful to accept what WASPs decide to allow them.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @songbird


    Asians or Jews haven’t given WASPs any of their institutions
     
    At Brandeis U. in 2016 non-Jewish whites (~20%) + Asians (32%) together made up an absolute majority.

    https://www.brandeis.edu/ssri/pdfs/campusstudies/AllTogetherSeparate052916.pdf#page=19

    WASs aren't very P anymore though, at least not the kind of P the founders of Harvard would have cared for. That religion is gone.

    Replies: @songbird

    , @Anon
    @songbird


    I don’t see what is so unreasonable about that.
     
    The Boston Brahmins who were descended from the people who founded Harvard (where the Lowells talk only to Cabots and the Cabots talk only to God) don't really exist anymore in undiluted form. I don't know but I would bet that a fair proportion of those of such descent are actually intermarried with Jews and another fair proportion with lace-curtain RC Irish.

    Replies: @216

    , @Twinkie
    @songbird


    Protestantism is now too fractured and denuded
     
    Funny enough, Christian organization on Ivy League campuses are now heavily dominated by East Asian students.

    I met my wife at Campus Crusade for Christ! About three decades ago, on an Ivy League campus, CCC was all white athletes and Asians. ;)


    WASPS should be
     
    WASPs didn't found the Ivies. Very specific WASP/white people did. Following your very sensible logic of private institutions benefiting the people who founded them, only the verifiable descendants of those specific founders should be admitted to these private institutions (which, by the way, should be denuded of federal funding since they are supposed to be private in ownership). Why should some random WASPs whose ancestors had nothing to do with founding the Ivies benefit?

    My WASP father-in-law is wealthy. Does that mean some random WASP off the street is entitled to his legacy just because they are both WASPs? Of course not.

    Replies: @Anon, @LoutishAngloQuebecker, @songbird

  51. Anon[141] • Disclaimer says:
    @songbird
    @Twinkie

    Protestantism is now too fractured and denuded to be a faithful sorting mechanism, according to specific sect. Besides, there are political complications from not having established state churches anymore.

    They might adapt moral codes that are originalist, while serving mainline protestant sects. Obviously, I am speaking hypothetically. The institutions have been deconstructed and are not likely to be reconstructed.

    However, I think WASPS should be at least 51-60% of the student body (or more). I don't see what is so unreasonable about that. Asians or Jews haven't given WASPs any of their institutions, nor would they ever. Therefore they should be grateful to accept what WASPs decide to allow them.

    Replies: @Anon, @Anon, @Twinkie

    Asians or Jews haven’t given WASPs any of their institutions

    At Brandeis U. in 2016 non-Jewish whites (~20%) + Asians (32%) together made up an absolute majority.

    https://www.brandeis.edu/ssri/pdfs/campusstudies/AllTogetherSeparate052916.pdf#page=19

    WASs aren’t very P anymore though, at least not the kind of P the founders of Harvard would have cared for. That religion is gone.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Anon

    Brandeis was founded in 1948. I've known people who have gone there. Not dumb people, but it certainly doesn't have much prestige, if you can get into a better school.

    Also, I'd say that no Jews of reasonable intelligence are actually refused entry there. So, it is really comparing apples to oranges: there probably aren't less of them actually going to Brandeis because enrollment is open. In fact, it might actually be more.

    I agree that there's been a lot of mixing and people are less religious as a generality, but I don't think the current formula is really fair, and it would be technically easy (though not politically) to find a better one.
    If all of one's institutions are doomed to be taken over, that doesn't exactly encourage public-mindedness.

    I can think of many variations: open it up more to actual English people or even British, Irish, or Germans. (consanguinity, should surely be a factor, if one is expanding the circle). Or give preference to people with one WASP parent. I've known people who are half-WASP and identify as Jews. It might be better for American society if that were flipped.

  52. Anon[141] • Disclaimer says:
    @songbird
    @Twinkie

    Protestantism is now too fractured and denuded to be a faithful sorting mechanism, according to specific sect. Besides, there are political complications from not having established state churches anymore.

    They might adapt moral codes that are originalist, while serving mainline protestant sects. Obviously, I am speaking hypothetically. The institutions have been deconstructed and are not likely to be reconstructed.

    However, I think WASPS should be at least 51-60% of the student body (or more). I don't see what is so unreasonable about that. Asians or Jews haven't given WASPs any of their institutions, nor would they ever. Therefore they should be grateful to accept what WASPs decide to allow them.

    Replies: @Anon, @Anon, @Twinkie

    I don’t see what is so unreasonable about that.

    The Boston Brahmins who were descended from the people who founded Harvard (where the Lowells talk only to Cabots and the Cabots talk only to God) don’t really exist anymore in undiluted form. I don’t know but I would bet that a fair proportion of those of such descent are actually intermarried with Jews and another fair proportion with lace-curtain RC Irish.

    • Replies: @216
    @Anon

    There are a sizeable number of people who were at one point in there lives affiliated with a Mainline Protestant church. Presumably they could re-affiliate, though this would be a surprising trend for sure.

  53. @Audacious Epigone
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Touche.

    On the other hand, they--white liberals--really, really want badwhites like you and me to have blacks and aliens as neighbors.

    Replies: @216, @LoutishAngloQuebecker

    That’s why it was such a brilliant idea when Trump wanted to release illegal aliens into rich neighborhoods.

    Too bad he cucked.

    It really is colonization… white liberals (and their (((friends)))) are colonizing their own people by inviting invaders into the country! It really is a clown world.

    This has been pointed out here before, but… to the guys like the El Paso shooter… random Mexicans ain’t the problem. The problem is lunatic white liberals who want to destroy all other whites.

  54. @Audacious Epigone
    @Charles Pewitt

    Figurative total war, I assume.

    I hate to be such a, well, schoolmarm, but please kindly refrain from declaring total war on specific groups of people.

    Replies: @Charles Pewitt

    Figurative total war, I assume.

    Figurative Total War Must Be Waged On The Globalizers And Plutocrats And The Upper Middle Class Whites And Their Apparatchik Enforcer Goons

    Nigel Farage caused a stir with his rhetoric about dealing with English government worker globalizers who were doing everything they could to prevent England from leaving the concentration camp of nations called the EU.

    Farage’s comments were thought to be too closely reminiscent of the horrible crime wave that has made once decent and civilized London a disgusting Third World Hellhole full of violent crime of a most dreadful nature.

    So Farage, as is his playful wont, kicked it up a notch to Viking level with his clarifying comment.

  55. @Rosie
    @Charles Pewitt


    We all know that some of the most vicious and disgusting attacks on White Core America have come from money-grubbing upper middle class Whites without a college degree(UMCWWCDs).
     
    Is that so, Mr. Prewitt? I would have thought it was the degree-holding UMC Whites who were the problem. What am I missing?

    Replies: @Charles Pewitt

    Is that so, Mr. Prewitt? I would have thought it was the degree-holding UMC Whites who were the problem. What am I missing?

    I don’t know what you’re missing, but your adding an R to my name that might fit for the 4 dozen other spellings of my surname but not my particular one.

    The White guys who are hiring all the illegal alien invaders for cheap labor and a lot of the White guys who are benefiting from real estate deals and rental income are upper middle class Whites. They may be stupid dolts who never read Thomas Hardy or Herman Melville, but by their income level they are upper middle class.

    You are most likely correct that the White upper middle class managerial types with their fancy university degrees are more numerically important in politics, but you can’t discount the upper middle class Whites without college degrees who donate big loot to the GOP in order to protect their supply of cheap labor and high demand for real estate caused by mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration.

    Edsall of NY Times did something on it, and plenty of us have written about it over the years. My idea was to bribe the White broads by rhetorically bashing the greedy boobs in the GOP who push open borders mass immigration — legal and illegal.

    You promise big fat government goodies for the White broad voters and then you just absolutely hammer the politicians and donors in the GOP Cheap Labor Faction.

    Bribe The White Broads — very subtle!

    • Replies: @Rosie
    @Charles Pewitt


    I don’t know what you’re missing, but your adding an R to my name that might fit for the 4 dozen other spellings of my surname but not my particular one.
     
    Oh dear! Sorry about that.


    They may be stupid dolts who never read Thomas Hardy or Herman Melville, but by their income level they are upper middle class.
     
    Yes, I know the type. Perhaps there is some denial about this treachery because it is a particularly bitter pill to swallow. I wonder if it's not a sort of race to the bottom, where only a few of these Joe the Plumber types start hiring cheap foreigners and begin to drive others out of business, who must then follow suit in order to compete.
  56. @Anon
    @songbird


    Asians or Jews haven’t given WASPs any of their institutions
     
    At Brandeis U. in 2016 non-Jewish whites (~20%) + Asians (32%) together made up an absolute majority.

    https://www.brandeis.edu/ssri/pdfs/campusstudies/AllTogetherSeparate052916.pdf#page=19

    WASs aren't very P anymore though, at least not the kind of P the founders of Harvard would have cared for. That religion is gone.

    Replies: @songbird

    Brandeis was founded in 1948. I’ve known people who have gone there. Not dumb people, but it certainly doesn’t have much prestige, if you can get into a better school.

    Also, I’d say that no Jews of reasonable intelligence are actually refused entry there. So, it is really comparing apples to oranges: there probably aren’t less of them actually going to Brandeis because enrollment is open. In fact, it might actually be more.

    I agree that there’s been a lot of mixing and people are less religious as a generality, but I don’t think the current formula is really fair, and it would be technically easy (though not politically) to find a better one.
    If all of one’s institutions are doomed to be taken over, that doesn’t exactly encourage public-mindedness.

    I can think of many variations: open it up more to actual English people or even British, Irish, or Germans. (consanguinity, should surely be a factor, if one is expanding the circle). Or give preference to people with one WASP parent. I’ve known people who are half-WASP and identify as Jews. It might be better for American society if that were flipped.

  57. @Anon
    @songbird


    I don’t see what is so unreasonable about that.
     
    The Boston Brahmins who were descended from the people who founded Harvard (where the Lowells talk only to Cabots and the Cabots talk only to God) don't really exist anymore in undiluted form. I don't know but I would bet that a fair proportion of those of such descent are actually intermarried with Jews and another fair proportion with lace-curtain RC Irish.

    Replies: @216

    There are a sizeable number of people who were at one point in there lives affiliated with a Mainline Protestant church. Presumably they could re-affiliate, though this would be a surprising trend for sure.

  58. @Charles Pewitt

    The Great Awokening among white liberals (liberal or very liberal), in contrast, is remarkable. Support levels lift off from 2012 and continue to ascend through to 2018, the latest year for which data is available. White liberals are now modestly more supportive of preferences for blacks at the expense of whites than blacks are, and it seems more likely than not that the gap between liberal whites and blacks will continue to grow into 2020 and beyond.

     

    It is love of country that propels me towards declaring total war on the upper middle class Globalizer Whites and their White Globalizer apparatchik enforcers. These upper middle class Whites have used globalization and financialization and mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration as demographic weapons to attack and destroy lower middle class Whites and regular middle class Whites.

    It has been clear for many years that certain upper middle class White money-grubbers have been waging a war to the death on lower middle class Whites and regular middle class Whites. We all know that some of the most vicious and disgusting attacks on White Core America have come from money-grubbing upper middle class Whites without a college degree(UMCWWCDs).

    These rancid Republican Party upper middle class White without college degrees are some of the very same money-grubbing scum who have been using the illegal alien invader cheap labor business model to attack White Core American civilization. You can find these horrid Republican Party money-grubbers donating big loot to the Republican Party politician whores who push mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration.

    Blacks are being used as battering rams to completely and totally destroy White Core America, and it is the disgusting money-grubbing scum in the Republican Party who are cheering them on.

    The enemy of White Core America is the upper middle class Whites and the vile, boot licking White Globalizer apparatchiks in BOTH the Republican Party and the Democrat Party.

    The horrible goons at the Murdoch-controlled Wall Street Journal exemplify this anti-White madness to a degree never before imaginable. The WSJ just did a propaganda piece questioning whether Joe Biden will be able to rely on the AUNT JEMIMA STRATEGY to endure losses in Iowa and New Hampshire and still win the Democrat Party presidential nomination. I want Biden to win the Democrat Party nomination for president so as to massively increase the vote for the Green Party in the general election!

    I ain't getting pulled into no baloney BS crud about Black -- Black -- Black -- Black -- Blacketty -- Black -- Black business. The enemy of White Core America is plutocrat Jews and plutocrat Whites and upper middle class Whites and their apparatchik White Globalizer goons.

    The hostile Blacks are merciful, Globalizer Plutocrat Whites and upper middle class Globalizer Whites are the dreaded enemy of White Core America!

    GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @Rosie, @Twodees Partain

    You must have an entirely different scale than I do if you are attributing that behavior to upper middle class people of any race. Middle class people, even the upper middle class by my scale, lack the money to have the kind of influence needed to set policy the way you claim.

    Also, I’ve never met any upper middle class people without college degrees.

  59. @216
    @Audacious Epigone

    A strange form of colonization, being rendered into a despised minority as paternalism.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    It’s Tony Blair’s desire to rub the right’s faces in diversity.

    • Replies: @216
    @Audacious Epigone

    That's how you get throat cancer.

  60. @Charles Pewitt
    @Rosie


    Is that so, Mr. Prewitt? I would have thought it was the degree-holding UMC Whites who were the problem. What am I missing?

     

    I don't know what you're missing, but your adding an R to my name that might fit for the 4 dozen other spellings of my surname but not my particular one.

    The White guys who are hiring all the illegal alien invaders for cheap labor and a lot of the White guys who are benefiting from real estate deals and rental income are upper middle class Whites. They may be stupid dolts who never read Thomas Hardy or Herman Melville, but by their income level they are upper middle class.

    You are most likely correct that the White upper middle class managerial types with their fancy university degrees are more numerically important in politics, but you can't discount the upper middle class Whites without college degrees who donate big loot to the GOP in order to protect their supply of cheap labor and high demand for real estate caused by mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration.

    Edsall of NY Times did something on it, and plenty of us have written about it over the years. My idea was to bribe the White broads by rhetorically bashing the greedy boobs in the GOP who push open borders mass immigration -- legal and illegal.

    You promise big fat government goodies for the White broad voters and then you just absolutely hammer the politicians and donors in the GOP Cheap Labor Faction.

    Bribe The White Broads -- very subtle!

    Replies: @Rosie

    I don’t know what you’re missing, but your adding an R to my name that might fit for the 4 dozen other spellings of my surname but not my particular one.

    Oh dear! Sorry about that.

    They may be stupid dolts who never read Thomas Hardy or Herman Melville, but by their income level they are upper middle class.

    Yes, I know the type. Perhaps there is some denial about this treachery because it is a particularly bitter pill to swallow. I wonder if it’s not a sort of race to the bottom, where only a few of these Joe the Plumber types start hiring cheap foreigners and begin to drive others out of business, who must then follow suit in order to compete.

  61. @Audacious Epigone
    @216

    It's Tony Blair's desire to rub the right's faces in diversity.

    Replies: @216

    That’s how you get throat cancer.

  62. @songbird
    @Twinkie

    Protestantism is now too fractured and denuded to be a faithful sorting mechanism, according to specific sect. Besides, there are political complications from not having established state churches anymore.

    They might adapt moral codes that are originalist, while serving mainline protestant sects. Obviously, I am speaking hypothetically. The institutions have been deconstructed and are not likely to be reconstructed.

    However, I think WASPS should be at least 51-60% of the student body (or more). I don't see what is so unreasonable about that. Asians or Jews haven't given WASPs any of their institutions, nor would they ever. Therefore they should be grateful to accept what WASPs decide to allow them.

    Replies: @Anon, @Anon, @Twinkie

    Protestantism is now too fractured and denuded

    Funny enough, Christian organization on Ivy League campuses are now heavily dominated by East Asian students.

    I met my wife at Campus Crusade for Christ! About three decades ago, on an Ivy League campus, CCC was all white athletes and Asians. 😉

    WASPS should be

    WASPs didn’t found the Ivies. Very specific WASP/white people did. Following your very sensible logic of private institutions benefiting the people who founded them, only the verifiable descendants of those specific founders should be admitted to these private institutions (which, by the way, should be denuded of federal funding since they are supposed to be private in ownership). Why should some random WASPs whose ancestors had nothing to do with founding the Ivies benefit?

    My WASP father-in-law is wealthy. Does that mean some random WASP off the street is entitled to his legacy just because they are both WASPs? Of course not.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Twinkie

    The specific class responsible for guiding the Ivies through most of their history (like, say, the Weld family, to which former MA governor Bill Weld belongs) seems to get into schools like Harvard anyway, even these days.

    , @LoutishAngloQuebecker
    @Twinkie

    Yes, WASPS need to look after our own before we let in some yellows.

    Go back to China, nobody wants your kind here.

    , @songbird
    @Twinkie

    Sure, I've seen Asians in CCfC. They don't dominate though.

    Tax money should be taken completely out of the college system across the board. Heck, I don't think K-12th grade should be completely tax-payer funded. Maybe, up to the 8th grade. For most, it is a waste of time and money.

    With the example of your father in law, you are conflating familiar legacy with public legacy. One involves charity, the other does not.

    But I guess you could not advance a moral objection to East Asia being ethnically transformed, and Asians being made minorities in all their top universities.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Rosie, @Twinkie

  63. @Twinkie
    @songbird


    Protestantism is now too fractured and denuded
     
    Funny enough, Christian organization on Ivy League campuses are now heavily dominated by East Asian students.

    I met my wife at Campus Crusade for Christ! About three decades ago, on an Ivy League campus, CCC was all white athletes and Asians. ;)


    WASPS should be
     
    WASPs didn't found the Ivies. Very specific WASP/white people did. Following your very sensible logic of private institutions benefiting the people who founded them, only the verifiable descendants of those specific founders should be admitted to these private institutions (which, by the way, should be denuded of federal funding since they are supposed to be private in ownership). Why should some random WASPs whose ancestors had nothing to do with founding the Ivies benefit?

    My WASP father-in-law is wealthy. Does that mean some random WASP off the street is entitled to his legacy just because they are both WASPs? Of course not.

    Replies: @Anon, @LoutishAngloQuebecker, @songbird

    The specific class responsible for guiding the Ivies through most of their history (like, say, the Weld family, to which former MA governor Bill Weld belongs) seems to get into schools like Harvard anyway, even these days.

  64. @Twinkie
    @songbird


    Protestantism is now too fractured and denuded
     
    Funny enough, Christian organization on Ivy League campuses are now heavily dominated by East Asian students.

    I met my wife at Campus Crusade for Christ! About three decades ago, on an Ivy League campus, CCC was all white athletes and Asians. ;)


    WASPS should be
     
    WASPs didn't found the Ivies. Very specific WASP/white people did. Following your very sensible logic of private institutions benefiting the people who founded them, only the verifiable descendants of those specific founders should be admitted to these private institutions (which, by the way, should be denuded of federal funding since they are supposed to be private in ownership). Why should some random WASPs whose ancestors had nothing to do with founding the Ivies benefit?

    My WASP father-in-law is wealthy. Does that mean some random WASP off the street is entitled to his legacy just because they are both WASPs? Of course not.

    Replies: @Anon, @LoutishAngloQuebecker, @songbird

    Yes, WASPS need to look after our own before we let in some yellows.

    Go back to China, nobody wants your kind here.

    • Troll: 216
  65. @Twinkie
    @AaronB


    According to Ron Unz, white admissions would rise significantly, resulting in a majority white student body, and Asian admissions would hardly rise.
     
    According to his Meritocracy article, the white fraction would stay the same while the Asian fraction would increase (at the expense of Hispanics and blacks). Meanwhile, the composition of whites would change - fewer Jews and more non-Jewish heartland whites.

    Replies: @216, @res

    According to his Meritocracy article, the white fraction would stay the same while the Asian fraction would increase (at the expense of Hispanics and blacks). Meanwhile, the composition of whites would change – fewer Jews and more non-Jewish heartland whites.

    Do you have a more explicit citation (that article is 26k words long: https://www.unz.com/runz/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy ) for the “white fraction would stay the same” part? Because looking at this article: https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-racial-discrimination-at-harvard/
    and these graphics (assuming “high ability student” population is a rough proxy for post-admission reform proportions at Harvard):

    It appears that the non-Jewish white population at Harvard would increase about 3x (so roughly from 18% to 54%) while the Jewish population would be reduced roughly from 26% to 6%. So total white population would go roughly from 44% to 60%.

    I tend to think Ron’s % Jewish numbers at Harvard are high, but most of the numbers given by his critics seem too low (and tend to be higher when they are bragging about achievement rather than defending admissions practices) so I am not sure where reality lies.

    P.S. And to bring this back towards the blog post topic, I wonder what the high ability student ratios graph would look like if blacks and Hispanics were included ; )

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @res

    I stand corrected. Thanks for the correction.

    I did remember correctly, though, that non-Jewish white and Asian numbers would rise substantially - not that anybody who actually read that long piece could forget those central revelations. ;)

    , @216
    @res


    It appears that the non-Jewish white population at Harvard would increase about 3x (so roughly from 18% to 54%) while the Jewish population would be reduced roughly from 26% to 6%. So total white population would go roughly from 44% to 60%.
     
    The impact can't be discounted here. There's a lot of Kris Kobach types denied the benefits of elite networking because they are denied entry into the institutions. It also makes the Ivy League wildly more liberal than even the youth population on average.

    It's also important that we force some increased representation for Right-wing professors.

    The Tudor Solution

    Replies: @Mr. Rational

  66. @Twinkie
    @songbird


    Protestantism is now too fractured and denuded
     
    Funny enough, Christian organization on Ivy League campuses are now heavily dominated by East Asian students.

    I met my wife at Campus Crusade for Christ! About three decades ago, on an Ivy League campus, CCC was all white athletes and Asians. ;)


    WASPS should be
     
    WASPs didn't found the Ivies. Very specific WASP/white people did. Following your very sensible logic of private institutions benefiting the people who founded them, only the verifiable descendants of those specific founders should be admitted to these private institutions (which, by the way, should be denuded of federal funding since they are supposed to be private in ownership). Why should some random WASPs whose ancestors had nothing to do with founding the Ivies benefit?

    My WASP father-in-law is wealthy. Does that mean some random WASP off the street is entitled to his legacy just because they are both WASPs? Of course not.

    Replies: @Anon, @LoutishAngloQuebecker, @songbird

    Sure, I’ve seen Asians in CCfC. They don’t dominate though.

    Tax money should be taken completely out of the college system across the board. Heck, I don’t think K-12th grade should be completely tax-payer funded. Maybe, up to the 8th grade. For most, it is a waste of time and money.

    With the example of your father in law, you are conflating familiar legacy with public legacy. One involves charity, the other does not.

    But I guess you could not advance a moral objection to East Asia being ethnically transformed, and Asians being made minorities in all their top universities.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @songbird


    public legacy
     
    What happened to the “private institutions” talk?

    East Asia
     
    I wish the people there well, but they are not my concern.

    Replies: @songbird

    , @Rosie
    @songbird


    But I guess you could not advance a moral objection to East Asia being ethnically transformed, and Asians being made minorities in all their top universities.
     
    Of course, he doesn't need to. Asians aren't being made minorities in all their top universities, just White people.

    Replies: @216

    , @Twinkie
    @songbird


    Sure, I’ve seen Asians in CCfC. They don’t dominate though.
     
    http://religion.ssrc.org/reforum/Kim.pdf

    One out of four Evangelical college students at New York City colleges and universities are Asian American (Carnes and Yang 2004; Sax et al. 1997). At Harvard, Asian Americans constitute 70 percent of the Harvard Radcliffe Christian Fellowship, and given the popularity of Evangelical Christian fellowships, one can easily spot students who proudly don t-shirts with phrases like “the Asian Awakening” (Chang 2000: 1). At Yale, Campus Crusade for Christ is 90 percent Asian, whereas twenty years ago it was 100 percent white.
     

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @res, @songbird

  67. @songbird
    @Twinkie

    Sure, I've seen Asians in CCfC. They don't dominate though.

    Tax money should be taken completely out of the college system across the board. Heck, I don't think K-12th grade should be completely tax-payer funded. Maybe, up to the 8th grade. For most, it is a waste of time and money.

    With the example of your father in law, you are conflating familiar legacy with public legacy. One involves charity, the other does not.

    But I guess you could not advance a moral objection to East Asia being ethnically transformed, and Asians being made minorities in all their top universities.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Rosie, @Twinkie

    public legacy

    What happened to the “private institutions” talk?

    East Asia

    I wish the people there well, but they are not my concern.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Twinkie


    What happened to the “private institutions” talk?
     
    If I had the power to reform the English language, I would ban anything tax-payer funded from being called "public." There's an implicit lie in that construction - the idea that it automatically serves the public interest.

    Simultaneously, "private" is thought to be a synonym with "corporate" or "profit-seeking." This is a bastardization of language. Many "private" charities have served the public interest. The first polio vaccine was developed entirely by private contribution.

    I wish the people there well, but they are not my concern.
     
    Mind elaborating? Do you mean, they are not your responsibility? Or that you are not worried about them? Or you don't see them as your people? Are you a citizenist? Seems like a lousy system, when the borders are open, and the new citizens 9anyone given papers - basically meaning anyone who comes here) overwhelmingly seems to support open borders.
  68. @res
    @Twinkie


    According to his Meritocracy article, the white fraction would stay the same while the Asian fraction would increase (at the expense of Hispanics and blacks). Meanwhile, the composition of whites would change – fewer Jews and more non-Jewish heartland whites.
     
    Do you have a more explicit citation (that article is 26k words long: https://www.unz.com/runz/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy ) for the "white fraction would stay the same" part? Because looking at this article: https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-racial-discrimination-at-harvard/
    and these graphics (assuming "high ability student" population is a rough proxy for post-admission reform proportions at Harvard):

    https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/f4-large.jpg

    https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/eliteenrollment-large.jpg

    It appears that the non-Jewish white population at Harvard would increase about 3x (so roughly from 18% to 54%) while the Jewish population would be reduced roughly from 26% to 6%. So total white population would go roughly from 44% to 60%.

    I tend to think Ron's % Jewish numbers at Harvard are high, but most of the numbers given by his critics seem too low (and tend to be higher when they are bragging about achievement rather than defending admissions practices) so I am not sure where reality lies.

    P.S. And to bring this back towards the blog post topic, I wonder what the high ability student ratios graph would look like if blacks and Hispanics were included ; )

    Replies: @Twinkie, @216

    I stand corrected. Thanks for the correction.

    I did remember correctly, though, that non-Jewish white and Asian numbers would rise substantially – not that anybody who actually read that long piece could forget those central revelations. 😉

  69. @Twinkie
    @songbird


    public legacy
     
    What happened to the “private institutions” talk?

    East Asia
     
    I wish the people there well, but they are not my concern.

    Replies: @songbird

    What happened to the “private institutions” talk?

    If I had the power to reform the English language, I would ban anything tax-payer funded from being called “public.” There’s an implicit lie in that construction – the idea that it automatically serves the public interest.

    Simultaneously, “private” is thought to be a synonym with “corporate” or “profit-seeking.” This is a bastardization of language. Many “private” charities have served the public interest. The first polio vaccine was developed entirely by private contribution.

    I wish the people there well, but they are not my concern.

    Mind elaborating? Do you mean, they are not your responsibility? Or that you are not worried about them? Or you don’t see them as your people? Are you a citizenist? Seems like a lousy system, when the borders are open, and the new citizens 9anyone given papers – basically meaning anyone who comes here) overwhelmingly seems to support open borders.

  70. @songbird
    @Twinkie

    Sure, I've seen Asians in CCfC. They don't dominate though.

    Tax money should be taken completely out of the college system across the board. Heck, I don't think K-12th grade should be completely tax-payer funded. Maybe, up to the 8th grade. For most, it is a waste of time and money.

    With the example of your father in law, you are conflating familiar legacy with public legacy. One involves charity, the other does not.

    But I guess you could not advance a moral objection to East Asia being ethnically transformed, and Asians being made minorities in all their top universities.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Rosie, @Twinkie

    But I guess you could not advance a moral objection to East Asia being ethnically transformed, and Asians being made minorities in all their top universities.

    Of course, he doesn’t need to. Asians aren’t being made minorities in all their top universities, just White people.

    • Replies: @216
    @Rosie

    Not yet, but soon.

    I wouldn't be surprised if China starts its own Fulbright-style program, to train new cadre of Pro-China elites in the Third World, and possibly some in the First World.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  71. @Rosie
    @songbird


    But I guess you could not advance a moral objection to East Asia being ethnically transformed, and Asians being made minorities in all their top universities.
     
    Of course, he doesn't need to. Asians aren't being made minorities in all their top universities, just White people.

    Replies: @216

    Not yet, but soon.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if China starts its own Fulbright-style program, to train new cadre of Pro-China elites in the Third World, and possibly some in the First World.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @216

    South Koreans are beginning to import Indian IT workers while their native IT graduates experience higher unemployment.

    Corporations are the same everywhere. They are slaves to profit and care not for country or people.

  72. 216 says: • Website
    @res
    @Twinkie


    According to his Meritocracy article, the white fraction would stay the same while the Asian fraction would increase (at the expense of Hispanics and blacks). Meanwhile, the composition of whites would change – fewer Jews and more non-Jewish heartland whites.
     
    Do you have a more explicit citation (that article is 26k words long: https://www.unz.com/runz/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy ) for the "white fraction would stay the same" part? Because looking at this article: https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-racial-discrimination-at-harvard/
    and these graphics (assuming "high ability student" population is a rough proxy for post-admission reform proportions at Harvard):

    https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/f4-large.jpg

    https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/eliteenrollment-large.jpg

    It appears that the non-Jewish white population at Harvard would increase about 3x (so roughly from 18% to 54%) while the Jewish population would be reduced roughly from 26% to 6%. So total white population would go roughly from 44% to 60%.

    I tend to think Ron's % Jewish numbers at Harvard are high, but most of the numbers given by his critics seem too low (and tend to be higher when they are bragging about achievement rather than defending admissions practices) so I am not sure where reality lies.

    P.S. And to bring this back towards the blog post topic, I wonder what the high ability student ratios graph would look like if blacks and Hispanics were included ; )

    Replies: @Twinkie, @216

    It appears that the non-Jewish white population at Harvard would increase about 3x (so roughly from 18% to 54%) while the Jewish population would be reduced roughly from 26% to 6%. So total white population would go roughly from 44% to 60%.

    The impact can’t be discounted here. There’s a lot of Kris Kobach types denied the benefits of elite networking because they are denied entry into the institutions. It also makes the Ivy League wildly more liberal than even the youth population on average.

    It’s also important that we force some increased representation for Right-wing professors.

    The Tudor Solution

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    @216

    Absent burning the institutions themselves down, massive reform is the only solution.

  73. @216
    @res


    It appears that the non-Jewish white population at Harvard would increase about 3x (so roughly from 18% to 54%) while the Jewish population would be reduced roughly from 26% to 6%. So total white population would go roughly from 44% to 60%.
     
    The impact can't be discounted here. There's a lot of Kris Kobach types denied the benefits of elite networking because they are denied entry into the institutions. It also makes the Ivy League wildly more liberal than even the youth population on average.

    It's also important that we force some increased representation for Right-wing professors.

    The Tudor Solution

    Replies: @Mr. Rational

    Absent burning the institutions themselves down, massive reform is the only solution.

  74. @216
    @Rosie

    Not yet, but soon.

    I wouldn't be surprised if China starts its own Fulbright-style program, to train new cadre of Pro-China elites in the Third World, and possibly some in the First World.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    South Koreans are beginning to import Indian IT workers while their native IT graduates experience higher unemployment.

    Corporations are the same everywhere. They are slaves to profit and care not for country or people.

  75. @songbird
    @Twinkie

    Sure, I've seen Asians in CCfC. They don't dominate though.

    Tax money should be taken completely out of the college system across the board. Heck, I don't think K-12th grade should be completely tax-payer funded. Maybe, up to the 8th grade. For most, it is a waste of time and money.

    With the example of your father in law, you are conflating familiar legacy with public legacy. One involves charity, the other does not.

    But I guess you could not advance a moral objection to East Asia being ethnically transformed, and Asians being made minorities in all their top universities.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Rosie, @Twinkie

    Sure, I’ve seen Asians in CCfC. They don’t dominate though.

    http://religion.ssrc.org/reforum/Kim.pdf

    One out of four Evangelical college students at New York City colleges and universities are Asian American (Carnes and Yang 2004; Sax et al. 1997). At Harvard, Asian Americans constitute 70 percent of the Harvard Radcliffe Christian Fellowship, and given the popularity of Evangelical Christian fellowships, one can easily spot students who proudly don t-shirts with phrases like “the Asian Awakening” (Chang 2000: 1). At Yale, Campus Crusade for Christ is 90 percent Asian, whereas twenty years ago it was 100 percent white.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Twinkie

    Wow, it's going to take me a bit to wrap my head around those potential implications.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @res
    @Twinkie


    At Yale, Campus Crusade for Christ is 90 percent Asian, whereas twenty years ago it was 100 percent white.
     
    Is that really true? My sense is that elite college Christian groups had good (certainly >0%) Asian representation longer ago than that. And doesn't your own experience argue the same?

    Your overall point is very interesting though. Any chance you could expand on what you see as the implications?

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @songbird
    @Twinkie

    Well, that's interesting, but, then again, the Ivies aren't very representative of the general pop.

    Next you'll be saying that Sun Myung Moon was the true successor to John Winthrop.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  76. @Twinkie
    @songbird


    Sure, I’ve seen Asians in CCfC. They don’t dominate though.
     
    http://religion.ssrc.org/reforum/Kim.pdf

    One out of four Evangelical college students at New York City colleges and universities are Asian American (Carnes and Yang 2004; Sax et al. 1997). At Harvard, Asian Americans constitute 70 percent of the Harvard Radcliffe Christian Fellowship, and given the popularity of Evangelical Christian fellowships, one can easily spot students who proudly don t-shirts with phrases like “the Asian Awakening” (Chang 2000: 1). At Yale, Campus Crusade for Christ is 90 percent Asian, whereas twenty years ago it was 100 percent white.
     

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @res, @songbird

    Wow, it’s going to take me a bit to wrap my head around those potential implications.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Audacious Epigone

    Yes, it's a bit funny, but because of Asians, the student bodies at Ivy League campuses have become much more evangelical Christian than was the case in the 60's and 70's.

  77. @Twinkie
    @songbird


    Sure, I’ve seen Asians in CCfC. They don’t dominate though.
     
    http://religion.ssrc.org/reforum/Kim.pdf

    One out of four Evangelical college students at New York City colleges and universities are Asian American (Carnes and Yang 2004; Sax et al. 1997). At Harvard, Asian Americans constitute 70 percent of the Harvard Radcliffe Christian Fellowship, and given the popularity of Evangelical Christian fellowships, one can easily spot students who proudly don t-shirts with phrases like “the Asian Awakening” (Chang 2000: 1). At Yale, Campus Crusade for Christ is 90 percent Asian, whereas twenty years ago it was 100 percent white.
     

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @res, @songbird

    At Yale, Campus Crusade for Christ is 90 percent Asian, whereas twenty years ago it was 100 percent white.

    Is that really true? My sense is that elite college Christian groups had good (certainly >0%) Asian representation longer ago than that. And doesn’t your own experience argue the same?

    Your overall point is very interesting though. Any chance you could expand on what you see as the implications?

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @res


    Is that really true? My sense is that elite college Christian groups had good (certainly >0%) Asian representation longer ago than that. And doesn’t your own experience argue the same?
     
    I am sure CCC at Yale in 2007 was selected to illustrate the point starkly, but obviously there were Asian Christians on Yale in 1987 (but they probably belonged to smaller, separate groups rather than CCC). On my campus in the late 1980's-early 90's, CCC was probably about 2/3 white (mostly athletes from the Midwest and the South) and 1/3 East Asian (mostly Koreans). I was an East Asian athlete, so it kinda fit. ;)

    Any chance you could expand on what you see as the implications?
     
    One thing to keep in mind is that, Asians are also subject to the same secularizing influence of the general society as whites, so I would not be surprised if the percentage of Asians who are devoutly Christian on campus were to decline on the elite campuses in the future (it may have already since the 2000's). Plus, the biggest source of evangelical Asian Christians on these campuses have been ethnic Koreans (70+% church-attending in the U.S.), whose absolute number has declined in the U.S. between the last two Censuses. Contrarily, there are going to be increasingly greater fractions of Hindu or Muslim Indians and atheist Chinese in the student body (representing the shift in the general Asian-American population), so we may have seen the peak of "Asian Awakening" on campus in our rear view mirror. And I'm sure the overwhelmingly leftist and anti-Christian elite university administrators like that trend just fine.

    Replies: @res

  78. @Twinkie
    @songbird


    Sure, I’ve seen Asians in CCfC. They don’t dominate though.
     
    http://religion.ssrc.org/reforum/Kim.pdf

    One out of four Evangelical college students at New York City colleges and universities are Asian American (Carnes and Yang 2004; Sax et al. 1997). At Harvard, Asian Americans constitute 70 percent of the Harvard Radcliffe Christian Fellowship, and given the popularity of Evangelical Christian fellowships, one can easily spot students who proudly don t-shirts with phrases like “the Asian Awakening” (Chang 2000: 1). At Yale, Campus Crusade for Christ is 90 percent Asian, whereas twenty years ago it was 100 percent white.
     

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone, @res, @songbird

    Well, that’s interesting, but, then again, the Ivies aren’t very representative of the general pop.

    Next you’ll be saying that Sun Myung Moon was the true successor to John Winthrop.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @songbird


    Well, that’s interesting, but, then again, the Ivies aren’t very representative of the general pop.
     
    Not, it's not, but we were discussing the Ivies, not the general population.

    And 70-80% of Koreans in the U.S. are church-going (as opposed to about 25% in South Korea).

    Next you’ll be saying that Sun Myung Moon was the true successor to John Winthrop.

     

    Just say that you didn't know and move on. There is no need for a snide, trollish non-sequitur of a parting shot.

    But if we were being ecclesiastical, I am a Roman Catholic, so both of these figures are heretics to me (though one is far more objectionable than the other). ;)
  79. @Audacious Epigone
    @Twinkie

    Wow, it's going to take me a bit to wrap my head around those potential implications.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Yes, it’s a bit funny, but because of Asians, the student bodies at Ivy League campuses have become much more evangelical Christian than was the case in the 60’s and 70’s.

  80. @res
    @Twinkie


    At Yale, Campus Crusade for Christ is 90 percent Asian, whereas twenty years ago it was 100 percent white.
     
    Is that really true? My sense is that elite college Christian groups had good (certainly >0%) Asian representation longer ago than that. And doesn't your own experience argue the same?

    Your overall point is very interesting though. Any chance you could expand on what you see as the implications?

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Is that really true? My sense is that elite college Christian groups had good (certainly >0%) Asian representation longer ago than that. And doesn’t your own experience argue the same?

    I am sure CCC at Yale in 2007 was selected to illustrate the point starkly, but obviously there were Asian Christians on Yale in 1987 (but they probably belonged to smaller, separate groups rather than CCC). On my campus in the late 1980’s-early 90’s, CCC was probably about 2/3 white (mostly athletes from the Midwest and the South) and 1/3 East Asian (mostly Koreans). I was an East Asian athlete, so it kinda fit. 😉

    Any chance you could expand on what you see as the implications?

    One thing to keep in mind is that, Asians are also subject to the same secularizing influence of the general society as whites, so I would not be surprised if the percentage of Asians who are devoutly Christian on campus were to decline on the elite campuses in the future (it may have already since the 2000’s). Plus, the biggest source of evangelical Asian Christians on these campuses have been ethnic Koreans (70+% church-attending in the U.S.), whose absolute number has declined in the U.S. between the last two Censuses. Contrarily, there are going to be increasingly greater fractions of Hindu or Muslim Indians and atheist Chinese in the student body (representing the shift in the general Asian-American population), so we may have seen the peak of “Asian Awakening” on campus in our rear view mirror. And I’m sure the overwhelmingly leftist and anti-Christian elite university administrators like that trend just fine.

    • Replies: @res
    @Twinkie

    Thanks.


    I am sure CCC at Yale in 2007 was selected to illustrate the point starkly, but obviously there were Asian Christians on Yale in 1987 (but they probably belonged to smaller, separate groups rather than CCC).
     
    That's possible. Perhaps I am too cynical in still not quite believing the 0% though. To my mind
    P(author eliding small into 0) > P (0% Asian CCC in 1987 at Yale)
    Though P(other groups) is probably higher as you note.

    On the other hand, I looked into this some more and it looks like the observation dates back to at least 2004 (the earlier the observation the more believable IMHO). The author of your PDF (Rebecca Kim) wrote about this in a 15 page book chapter from (including a detailed reference because I thought you might be interested in reading this, though it looks quite similar to your PDF):
    https://www.amazon.com/Asian-American-Youth-Identity-Ethnicity-dp-0415946697/dp/0415946697
    Chapter 15 Made in the U.S.A.: Second-Generation Korean American Campus Evangelicals

    libgen.is has a copy of the book PDF

    I assume Kim's own book is much more detailed (mentioned in your PDF): https://www.amazon.com/Gods-New-Whiz-Kids-Evangelicals/dp/0814747906
    libgen also has a copy of that.

    As far as I can tell she does not give an actual reference for the Yale comment in any of those three places. Chang, 2000 is referenced elsewhere in that paragraph and appears to be this:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20010208160553/http://www.monolid.com/articles1.html
    but I can't find the article itself to check if it says anything about Yale.

    P.S. References like "twenty years ago" are suspect both because of possible round off and the tendency of authors to reuse text without updating it.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  81. @songbird
    @Twinkie

    Well, that's interesting, but, then again, the Ivies aren't very representative of the general pop.

    Next you'll be saying that Sun Myung Moon was the true successor to John Winthrop.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Well, that’s interesting, but, then again, the Ivies aren’t very representative of the general pop.

    Not, it’s not, but we were discussing the Ivies, not the general population.

    And 70-80% of Koreans in the U.S. are church-going (as opposed to about 25% in South Korea).

    Next you’ll be saying that Sun Myung Moon was the true successor to John Winthrop.

    Just say that you didn’t know and move on. There is no need for a snide, trollish non-sequitur of a parting shot.

    But if we were being ecclesiastical, I am a Roman Catholic, so both of these figures are heretics to me (though one is far more objectionable than the other). 😉

  82. @Twinkie
    @res


    Is that really true? My sense is that elite college Christian groups had good (certainly >0%) Asian representation longer ago than that. And doesn’t your own experience argue the same?
     
    I am sure CCC at Yale in 2007 was selected to illustrate the point starkly, but obviously there were Asian Christians on Yale in 1987 (but they probably belonged to smaller, separate groups rather than CCC). On my campus in the late 1980's-early 90's, CCC was probably about 2/3 white (mostly athletes from the Midwest and the South) and 1/3 East Asian (mostly Koreans). I was an East Asian athlete, so it kinda fit. ;)

    Any chance you could expand on what you see as the implications?
     
    One thing to keep in mind is that, Asians are also subject to the same secularizing influence of the general society as whites, so I would not be surprised if the percentage of Asians who are devoutly Christian on campus were to decline on the elite campuses in the future (it may have already since the 2000's). Plus, the biggest source of evangelical Asian Christians on these campuses have been ethnic Koreans (70+% church-attending in the U.S.), whose absolute number has declined in the U.S. between the last two Censuses. Contrarily, there are going to be increasingly greater fractions of Hindu or Muslim Indians and atheist Chinese in the student body (representing the shift in the general Asian-American population), so we may have seen the peak of "Asian Awakening" on campus in our rear view mirror. And I'm sure the overwhelmingly leftist and anti-Christian elite university administrators like that trend just fine.

    Replies: @res

    Thanks.

    I am sure CCC at Yale in 2007 was selected to illustrate the point starkly, but obviously there were Asian Christians on Yale in 1987 (but they probably belonged to smaller, separate groups rather than CCC).

    That’s possible. Perhaps I am too cynical in still not quite believing the 0% though. To my mind
    P(author eliding small into 0) > P (0% Asian CCC in 1987 at Yale)
    Though P(other groups) is probably higher as you note.

    On the other hand, I looked into this some more and it looks like the observation dates back to at least 2004 (the earlier the observation the more believable IMHO). The author of your PDF (Rebecca Kim) wrote about this in a 15 page book chapter from (including a detailed reference because I thought you might be interested in reading this, though it looks quite similar to your PDF):

    Chapter 15 Made in the U.S.A.: Second-Generation Korean American Campus Evangelicals

    libgen.is has a copy of the book PDF

    I assume Kim’s own book is much more detailed (mentioned in your PDF): https://www.amazon.com/Gods-New-Whiz-Kids-Evangelicals/dp/0814747906
    libgen also has a copy of that.

    As far as I can tell she does not give an actual reference for the Yale comment in any of those three places. Chang, 2000 is referenced elsewhere in that paragraph and appears to be this:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20010208160553/http://www.monolid.com/articles1.html
    but I can’t find the article itself to check if it says anything about Yale.

    P.S. References like “twenty years ago” are suspect both because of possible round off and the tendency of authors to reuse text without updating it.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @res

    Thank you for the links and references.

  83. @res
    @Twinkie

    Thanks.


    I am sure CCC at Yale in 2007 was selected to illustrate the point starkly, but obviously there were Asian Christians on Yale in 1987 (but they probably belonged to smaller, separate groups rather than CCC).
     
    That's possible. Perhaps I am too cynical in still not quite believing the 0% though. To my mind
    P(author eliding small into 0) > P (0% Asian CCC in 1987 at Yale)
    Though P(other groups) is probably higher as you note.

    On the other hand, I looked into this some more and it looks like the observation dates back to at least 2004 (the earlier the observation the more believable IMHO). The author of your PDF (Rebecca Kim) wrote about this in a 15 page book chapter from (including a detailed reference because I thought you might be interested in reading this, though it looks quite similar to your PDF):
    https://www.amazon.com/Asian-American-Youth-Identity-Ethnicity-dp-0415946697/dp/0415946697
    Chapter 15 Made in the U.S.A.: Second-Generation Korean American Campus Evangelicals

    libgen.is has a copy of the book PDF

    I assume Kim's own book is much more detailed (mentioned in your PDF): https://www.amazon.com/Gods-New-Whiz-Kids-Evangelicals/dp/0814747906
    libgen also has a copy of that.

    As far as I can tell she does not give an actual reference for the Yale comment in any of those three places. Chang, 2000 is referenced elsewhere in that paragraph and appears to be this:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20010208160553/http://www.monolid.com/articles1.html
    but I can't find the article itself to check if it says anything about Yale.

    P.S. References like "twenty years ago" are suspect both because of possible round off and the tendency of authors to reuse text without updating it.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Thank you for the links and references.

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