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Better dead than possibly perceived as racist. The following graph shows the percentages of people, by selected demographics, who think the US government should deny entry into the country to any foreigner who has coronavirus. “Not sure” responses, constituting 17% of the total, are excluded, so the residuals represent percentages opposed to a ban among the opinionated. Note the y-axis begins at 20% on account of the author’s preference for symmetry:
Hispanic Republican zoomer hygiene, I guess.
This is not a question about whether or not people from infected countries (China) should be allowed to travel into America, it’s about whether or not people already infected with coronavirus should be allowed in! It’s a big country, so maybe this is NIMBYism in the extreme. Or maybe it is an issue with reading comprehension, though the question is rather simple and straightforward.
Whatever the case, it’s another example of what an unserious country this is. The official number of confirmed cases globally is around 31,000. There are over 7,500,000,000 people in the world who reside outside the US. To exclude the infected, then, is to temporarily restrict entry into the US of 0.00004% of the global population. Not forever, mind you–for just a few more weeks or months until the virus has run its course. And yet little over half of Democrats and only two-in-three Republicans are in favor of doing so. In total, 51% of the country supports banning the infected, while 32% oppose and 17% are not sure.
When the next real super bug pandemic comes, a lot of people will die in order to avoid being thought of as rude.
Parenthetically, you’ll notice how relatively narrow the ranges across demographic categories are. People don’t know what the ‘correct’ answer for their group is yet, because this cultural issue is a relatively novel one, at least in recent years. People have had time to figure out where their team stands on guns or abortion, but when it comes to what constitutes ideological rectitude with regard to mitigating global pandemics, there is still a lot of uncertainty in the air (heh).
English
Arabic
Chinese (Simplified)
Dutch
French
German
Hebrew
Hindi
Italian
Persian
Portuguese
Russian
Spanish
Swedish
I realize that it is probably impracticable to pull the numbers, but it would be interesting to see East Asians, and also broken into separate nationalities. Like, I wonder if Vietnamese would be pretty high, but Chinese pretty low. I’d also like to see the response of Indians. (dot)
And the same form of question for people with AIDS or TB. Or just for laughs, Y. pestis.
All of the messages from local public health officials are saying “protect yourself, but don’t resort to discrimination!”
Just awful. Discrimination is exactly how you deal with epidemics. It is literally the only sane way you can. But as you say, better dead than racist, apparently.
About half the population thinks its just a bad cold or like ordinary flu.
They aren’t getting the likely extremely high transmissible = pandemic nature of this virus, and the unknown but possibly high lethality of it.
A single guy seems to have infected more than 40 people on a cruise ship docked in Japan.
Even if it is only exactly as harmful as ordinary flu, who needs that? Flu problems x 2?
A lot of people who should know better have been pushing a ‘fluid worse’ analogy. Including John Derbyshire. https://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/america-catches-coronavirus-panic/
A smart guy and not innumerate. But he didn’t get the likely high R(0) estimated at 3.
Ellis Island checked arriving passengers for disease. Infected non-citizens were sent back.
I don’t know what the officials did with infected citizens– put them in quarantine? You can’t exile them, and you can’t let them loose.
The Spanish flu was brought home by our doughboys. Where were they processed?
CDC specialists, who should know better, thought that banning flights from countries affected by ebola is racist because black bodies or something, so I’m not surprised that this opinion is shared by many members of the public.
As I recall the Ebola outbreak during the Obama administration, the Dem team’s stand was “wave the wretched refuse onto our shores while simultaneously sending the flower of our youth (US military) to be exposed to the pestilence”. The shamelessly suicidal virtue signalling of that episode may have something to do with why the current poll responses show such meager majorities for sanity (literal sanity (literally literal)).
Amusingly, during that Ebola outbreak I had dinner with conventional white liberal SWPL and his near-FOB Latina wife. The Latina was borderline hysterical that Obama was letting all these infected Africans into the country, while her woke husband embarrassedly tried to soothe her and smooth away the obvious racial implications of her outbursts.
Good times. Good times.
More than once I’ve gotten into these situations where a first-world virtue-signaler colleague, who is aware that I’m somewhere to the right of them politically, marries a non-first-worlder, whom the first-worlder assumes they have to protect from people like me, only to find out that the non-first-worlder and I share a lot of political ground while it is the virtue-signaler who is the odd one out. Example: first-world lady colleague marries an Arab Mahgrebi, I have dinner with them, subject of Islamic terrorism comes up, lady blanches that I will say something offensive in front of her Arab Muslim husband, I desist out of politeness, turns out the husband is all like “yeah you gotta f··k those people up before they f··k you up”. Even I wouldn’t have put it so bluntly. Lols.
The very word “racist” is a bioweapon of mass destruction.
temporarily restrict entry into the US of 0.00004% of the global population.
You truly don’t understand the sacredness of the individual combined with the white man’s burden. 🙂
Or, also...
"It rubs the virus on its skin or else it gets the hose again!"
Also, I found this post particularly useful; it's a high-yield thread on many metaconcepts that are defined concisely (and some with great examples):
https://twitter.com/G_S_Bhogal/status/1225561131122597896
Peace.Replies: @iffen
Great post, A.E., and you said it, with “Whatever the case, it’s another example of what an unserious country this is”! That the numbers for at least white people of all political persuasions are not all over 95% shows how far the nation has fallen and how high the stupidity levels have risen. Peak Stupidity is nigh!
This particular issue could be determined by medical professionals, no matter what the idiot contingent of the public thinks. However, the medical professionals have been infected with the same stupidity too.
Great anecdotes, A.M., and I’ve experienced the same thing.
Yes, some people are afraid to appear like they are racist, but never underestimate just how many people just aren’t very bright at all. It’s easy to slip into the mode of thought that everyone polled has a considered opinion on a given topic, but most don’t really I would guess.
People are making assumptions about what this questions means as opposed to taking it literally, as they should. Hence their relative reticence.
The crude death rate in China is 7.1 per thousand per year (more than 1.5 deaths lower than the United States, I was surprised to learn). The Wuhan metropolitan area contains 19 million souls. That means that on any given day, Wuhan will lose about 370 lives from all causes.
The total death count from the corona virus outbreak, as of this writing, stands at 638—less than 2 days’ worth of normal Wuhan deaths.
This is a seriouis matter but not because of the threat to life. When global supply chains begin to break down in an economy already as fragile as this one, a lot of things will start to fly apart.
Do you think that the conspiracy theorists who are blaming the accerationists might be right?
Ban The Bat Soup Fever People Now!
The Charles Pewitt write-in campaign for president of the USA has called for the immediate implementation of a BAT SOUP FEVER BAN which will quarantine the rest of the world, including Canada and Mexico. All foreigners currently occupying US territory will be immediately removed and they will be put on barges with baloney sandwiches for sustenance on their long voyage back to wherever the Hell they came from. Those who have deliberately shredded their identification — like Pelosi shredding Trumpy’s speech — shall be put in a baloney sandwich camp in sub-Saharan Africa and kept there indefinitely.
The Charles Pewitt write-in campaign for president has stated numerous times that open borders mass legal immigration and open borders mass illegal immigration brings infectious diseases to the USA and this new fangled BAT SOUP FEVER is just EBOLA with more sniffles and the walking pneumonia and the itty bitty bat soup fever blues.
BAN THE BAT SOUP FEVER PEOPLE NOW!
The Charles Pewitt ban on the Bat Soup Fever People, plus all the other foreigners for good measure, will bring massive benefits to the American people.
The Charles Pewitt ban on all foreigners in combination with a massive removal of all foreigners in the USA will boost wages, lower housing costs, reduce income inequality, lower class sizes, protect the environment, restore cultural cohesion, give US workers more bargaining power, reduce belly fat, reduce commuting times, provide relief for overwhelmed hospitals and be good for regular Americans and bad for globalizer banker money-grubbing nasty people.
Write In the Name Charles Pewitt in New Hampshire and Nevada and South Carolina and all the other primary and caucus states.
The Charles Pewitt presidency will extinguish all student loan debt and pay back all student loan debt ever paid plus 6 percent interest accrued yearly.
The Pewitt Conjured Loot Portion will grant each American citizen with all blood ancestors born in colonial America or in the USA before 1924 the sum of ten thousand dollars a month — tax free.
The Pewitt Tax Pledge will abolish the payroll tax and reduce federal income taxes substantially for all Americans making below 300, 000 dollars a year. Billionaires will be declared illegal and they will be financially liquidated and the federal corporate tax rate shall be 80 percent and 100 percent for all corporations that have gone offshore.
God Bless America And Ban The Bat Soup Fever People Now!
Tweets from 2014:
An idiotic question — I heard it has an incubation period of approx 10 – 14 days, so there’s no reliable way to tell who is and is not carrying the virus.
The power of the r-word in any hypothetical: many of those who said it’s OK to admit “any foreigner who has coronavirus” probably heard at some point it would be racist to keep them out, so better give the safe answer.
Of course they’re still contemptible.
The US started taking HIV+ immigrants and refugees under Obama.
See e.g. STILL No Non-Chinese Deaths from Coronavirus, But the WASHINGTON POST Wants You to Rat Out Your Neighbors Anyway
A modern maxim ought to go something like this: Unless you can eliminate the chance an accusation of racism might be connected to a possible answer to a question, it's pointless to ask the question, even during a quasi anonymous survey.
The total death count from the corona virus outbreak, as of this writing, stands at 638---less than 2 days' worth of normal Wuhan deaths.
This is a seriouis matter but not because of the threat to life. When global supply chains begin to break down in an economy already as fragile as this one, a lot of things will start to fly apart.Replies: @iffen
a lot of things will start to fly apart.
Do you think that the conspiracy theorists who are blaming the accerationists might be right?
I don’t know much about this virus. I take all panics these days with a grain, no a table spoon of salt.
If it is as reported deadly as reported, then a quarantine is mandated and in my view, that includes entry of US citizens. I may be on shay ground there, Constitutionally.
“Breathe in the cough, Whitey!!! Do it!”
Or, also…
“It rubs the virus on its skin or else it gets the hose again!”
Also, I found this post particularly useful; it’s a high-yield thread on many metaconcepts that are defined concisely (and some with great examples):
Peace.
I should add — i don’t think HIV is the result of eating monkey grains — ridiculous. I do think the m most plausible explanation rests in polio research during the late forties through the fifties
Or, also...
"It rubs the virus on its skin or else it gets the hose again!"
Also, I found this post particularly useful; it's a high-yield thread on many metaconcepts that are defined concisely (and some with great examples):
https://twitter.com/G_S_Bhogal/status/1225561131122597896
Peace.Replies: @iffen
Maybe I’m wrong and the racists are right that we should “normalize” being a racist.
Peace.Replies: @dfordoom
Once some kids at Sidwell Friends start dropping from the virus, “public reaction” will change quickly.
https://www.unz.com/video/stefanmolyneux_the-truth-about-the-coronavirus-update/
interesting
Ironically it seems that Asians are far more susceptible of catching (and dying of) the coronavirus than whites. So allowing Chinese enter the US would kill far more Asians. But that would be mean admitting that races are very real instead of a “social construct”…can’t compute, can’t compute
GENDER IS A CHOICE
Until you're an Asian man exposed to Coronachan, b/c Coronachan don't give a fuck.Replies: @anon
I think that ship has sailed – especially in the West where there is hype-individualism. I think group-preference may well become more normal for whites in the West, but overt racism? I have my doubts, unless something cataclysmic happens.
Peace.
Western whites are never going to develop group-preference based on race because concepts like the White Race are too vague and abstract. Even the idea of western civilisation is incomprehensible to most western whites.
There was a time when whites in the West demonstrated group-preference based on ethnicity or culture but that's long gone. As far as most white westerners are concerned there is now only one culture.
It's possibly that group-preferences among whites based on class and ideology will become much stronger. Liberals and conservatives have already long since reached the point of demonising and dehumanising each other. And the white elites consider non-elite whites to be subhuman trash.Replies: @Talha, @Twinkie, @iffen
And the same form of question for people with AIDS or TB. Or just for laughs, Y. pestis.Replies: @Svevlad
Dot indians would forbid everyone who ain’t a dot indian, duh.
62% of whites is pretty good. If Trump took 62% of the White vote he would cruise to a landslide victory, no?
The true number is probably in the mid 70s, but we know people are hesitant to say what they really think to a pollster.
But even so, I don’t think this is a bad result. It’s about what you’d expect.
Yes. Most people probably have no idea what the coronavirus is and since it’s all happening in a foreign country they don’t care. And a sizeable proportion of those polled were probably incapable of understanding the question, no matter how carefully it might have been explained.
Peace.Replies: @dfordoom
Group-preference is already common for whites in the West, but it’s not based on race. It’s based on class, and ideology. To a much lesser extent (among Christians) it’s based on religion. It’s also based (bizarrely) on a preference for deviant sex.
Western whites are never going to develop group-preference based on race because concepts like the White Race are too vague and abstract. Even the idea of western civilisation is incomprehensible to most western whites.
There was a time when whites in the West demonstrated group-preference based on ethnicity or culture but that’s long gone. As far as most white westerners are concerned there is now only one culture.
It’s possibly that group-preferences among whites based on class and ideology will become much stronger. Liberals and conservatives have already long since reached the point of demonising and dehumanising each other. And the white elites consider non-elite whites to be subhuman trash.
RACE IS JUST A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT
GENDER IS A CHOICE
Until you’re an Asian man exposed to Coronachan, b/c Coronachan don’t give a fuck.
https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/corona-chan-2.jpg
On the two subreddits dedicated to this outbreak there is at least as much concern over not appearing, “racist,” or, “xenophobic,” as there is for taking proper precautions and playing it safe.
There is an enormous unmet desire for candor out there.
I bet James Watson and Jason Richwine, to name just two among many, wouldn't necessarily agree.
Race is too vague…
There's nothing "vague" about race -- when you meet/encounter someone, it's the first thing you notice, and it's unusual for there to be anything ambiguous or uncertain about a person's race.Replies: @Audacious Epigone
The Charles Pewitt write-in campaign for president of the USA has called for the immediate implementation of a BAT SOUP FEVER BAN which will quarantine the rest of the world, including Canada and Mexico. All foreigners currently occupying US territory will be immediately removed and they will be put on barges with baloney sandwiches for sustenance on their long voyage back to wherever the Hell they came from. Those who have deliberately shredded their identification -- like Pelosi shredding Trumpy's speech -- shall be put in a baloney sandwich camp in sub-Saharan Africa and kept there indefinitely.
The Charles Pewitt write-in campaign for president has stated numerous times that open borders mass legal immigration and open borders mass illegal immigration brings infectious diseases to the USA and this new fangled BAT SOUP FEVER is just EBOLA with more sniffles and the walking pneumonia and the itty bitty bat soup fever blues.
BAN THE BAT SOUP FEVER PEOPLE NOW!
The Charles Pewitt ban on the Bat Soup Fever People, plus all the other foreigners for good measure, will bring massive benefits to the American people.
The Charles Pewitt ban on all foreigners in combination with a massive removal of all foreigners in the USA will boost wages, lower housing costs, reduce income inequality, lower class sizes, protect the environment, restore cultural cohesion, give US workers more bargaining power, reduce belly fat, reduce commuting times, provide relief for overwhelmed hospitals and be good for regular Americans and bad for globalizer banker money-grubbing nasty people.
Write In the Name Charles Pewitt in New Hampshire and Nevada and South Carolina and all the other primary and caucus states.
The Charles Pewitt presidency will extinguish all student loan debt and pay back all student loan debt ever paid plus 6 percent interest accrued yearly.
The Pewitt Conjured Loot Portion will grant each American citizen with all blood ancestors born in colonial America or in the USA before 1924 the sum of ten thousand dollars a month -- tax free.
The Pewitt Tax Pledge will abolish the payroll tax and reduce federal income taxes substantially for all Americans making below 300, 000 dollars a year. Billionaires will be declared illegal and they will be financially liquidated and the federal corporate tax rate shall be 80 percent and 100 percent for all corporations that have gone offshore.
God Bless America And Ban The Bat Soup Fever People Now!
Tweets from 2014:
https://twitter.com/CharlesPewitt/status/531554998383943680?s=20
https://twitter.com/CharlesPewitt/status/522817200219226112?s=20Replies: @MEH 0910
GENDER IS A CHOICE
Until you're an Asian man exposed to Coronachan, b/c Coronachan don't give a fuck.Replies: @anon
Coronachan don’t give a fuck.
Western whites are never going to develop group-preference based on race because concepts like the White Race are too vague and abstract. Even the idea of western civilisation is incomprehensible to most western whites.
There was a time when whites in the West demonstrated group-preference based on ethnicity or culture but that's long gone. As far as most white westerners are concerned there is now only one culture.
It's possibly that group-preferences among whites based on class and ideology will become much stronger. Liberals and conservatives have already long since reached the point of demonising and dehumanising each other. And the white elites consider non-elite whites to be subhuman trash.Replies: @Talha, @Twinkie, @iffen
Very good points. I was thinking more along the ethnicity lines, but it is dependent on a few other factors which need to be put into motion first; for sure, marriage patterns would be one of the first indicators.
Race is too vague…tribe and clan are something else altogether. Guess we’ll see.
Peace.
Yugoslavia and Iraq/Syria are good examples of this. Putting into abstract terms of "race" kind of misses the point.Replies: @dfordoom
Western whites are never going to develop group-preference based on race because concepts like the White Race are too vague and abstract. Even the idea of western civilisation is incomprehensible to most western whites.
There was a time when whites in the West demonstrated group-preference based on ethnicity or culture but that's long gone. As far as most white westerners are concerned there is now only one culture.
It's possibly that group-preferences among whites based on class and ideology will become much stronger. Liberals and conservatives have already long since reached the point of demonising and dehumanising each other. And the white elites consider non-elite whites to be subhuman trash.Replies: @Talha, @Twinkie, @iffen
Tribalism, which has a strong, organic pull, is much more coherent, discrete, defined, and “micro” than race-identitarianism. That latter cannot easily be a substitute for the former, because there are issues of cohesion and shared interests that arise with scale and diffusion.
They see non-elites as alien, dangerous and contemptible. They see non-elites as the Other that must be ruthlessly suppressed. They don't just see non-elites as member of a hostile tribe - they see non-elites as belonging to a different and inferior species.
Unfortunately there is no such tribalism among the non-elite classes.
It's also clear that ideological divides have become tribal. Liberals have no actual contact with non-liberals. They live in liberal enclaves, go to the same schools and they marry fellow liberals. They hate and fear non-liberals as tribal enemies that must be destroyed. The same applies to conservatives - their hatred for liberals is tribal and primal.
This class and ideological tribalism among whites makes any notion of white solidarity or white identity an absurdity.
We are not only in a class/ideological war, it is also to a very large extent a civil war among whites.
despite the susceptibility of Asians over others, it’s a strange conversation to watch in which people think the risk based on ethnicity or color or anything should matter. It seems obvious that allowing anyone into the country is a risky proposition.
And that includes US citizens. I would guess that they either they are all quarantined immediately in some secure location. If the virus is as risky as advertised — it seems a peculiar choice to allow entry into then country without an immediate quarantine.
gee willickers
Now that she’s been in the country for several years, and subjected to a continuing dose of entertainment/propaganda, I’ll bet she toes the line properly.
IKR? Everybody only cares about rich white kids.
One thing I’d like to add is that proximity under stressful conditions can make humans more sharply responsive to differences, even differences that make relative little sense to outsiders.
Yugoslavia and Iraq/Syria are good examples of this. Putting into abstract terms of “race” kind of misses the point.
I’ll bet a political candidate willing to show some signs of authentic candor would go far by virtue of that alone.
A willingness to pretend that one doesn’t have all the answers and a bit of a cynical streak wouldn’t hurt, either. Modern US politics is allergic to anything that rocks the boat. It’d be more meaningful if someone rocks the boat in a down-to-earth kind of way, to illustrate the sort of strained, artificial nature of modern US politics. Less is more sometimes. In an era where we have empty suits with perfect resumes but little in the way of actual personality, that’d mean everything. And with the Internet, that’s all you need.
Trump did it. And he was an outright ham. Imagine how more effectively this willingness to be yourself, in action, not rhetoric, could be utilized to political effect. Happy coincidence.
Western whites are never going to develop group-preference based on race because concepts like the White Race are too vague and abstract. Even the idea of western civilisation is incomprehensible to most western whites.
There was a time when whites in the West demonstrated group-preference based on ethnicity or culture but that's long gone. As far as most white westerners are concerned there is now only one culture.
It's possibly that group-preferences among whites based on class and ideology will become much stronger. Liberals and conservatives have already long since reached the point of demonising and dehumanising each other. And the white elites consider non-elite whites to be subhuman trash.Replies: @Talha, @Twinkie, @iffen
What Twinkie said.
Haven’t seen them in a few years, but it is hard to imagine her husband wielding much SWPL hand over her. (Indeed “SWPL hand” is a bit of a contradiction in terms.)
When I knew them, her husband could barely break her of the habit of saying “negritas” for black women, which isn’t really offensive in Spanish, but made his woke Anglophone hair stand up.
If she has any kids by now, they are mostly European, so her maternal instincts may make her quite reactionary by current standards, i.e.: believing her white descendants have a right to exist.
Out where and among whom?
I bet James Watson and Jason Richwine, to name just two among many, wouldn’t necessarily agree.
Race is too vague…
There’s nothing “vague” about race — when you meet/encounter someone, it’s the first thing you notice, and it’s unusual for there to be anything ambiguous or uncertain about a person’s race.
The tribalism that we’re seeing among whites is tribalism based on class and ideology. There are incredibly strong ties of shared interest among the elites. They now form a well-defined very coherent tribe. They go to the same schools and colleges. They have their own culture. They live in the same wealthy enclaves. They marry each other. They have no actual contact whatsoever with non-elites. Race is entirely irrelevant to them, except as a weapon with which to suppress non-elites.
They see non-elites as alien, dangerous and contemptible. They see non-elites as the Other that must be ruthlessly suppressed. They don’t just see non-elites as member of a hostile tribe – they see non-elites as belonging to a different and inferior species.
Unfortunately there is no such tribalism among the non-elite classes.
It’s also clear that ideological divides have become tribal. Liberals have no actual contact with non-liberals. They live in liberal enclaves, go to the same schools and they marry fellow liberals. They hate and fear non-liberals as tribal enemies that must be destroyed. The same applies to conservatives – their hatred for liberals is tribal and primal.
This class and ideological tribalism among whites makes any notion of white solidarity or white identity an absurdity.
We are not only in a class/ideological war, it is also to a very large extent a civil war among whites.
Yugoslavia and Iraq/Syria are good examples of this. Putting into abstract terms of "race" kind of misses the point.Replies: @dfordoom
Those differences can of course be minor ethnic or cultural differences or minor religious differences. They can also be minor ideological or political differences.
In places like the United States and Britain (and probably western Europe) the minor differences are most likely to be ideological/political. A good example being the Feminist Civil Wars of the 80s and 90s, and the current Feminist Civil War over trannies. Or the leftist infighting of the 60s (Trotskyists hated Stalinists and Maoists more than they hated the capitalists). Or the Republican Civil War between the Trumpists and the Never-Trumpers. Or the Democrat Civil War between the Bernie Bros and the Clintonistas. Or the civil war in the British Labour Party between the Corbynistas and the Blairites. Or the vicious civil wars between the left and right wings in the Australian Labor Party (which I saw at first hand and which involved actual violence).
I bet James Watson and Jason Richwine, to name just two among many, wouldn't necessarily agree.
Race is too vague…
There's nothing "vague" about race -- when you meet/encounter someone, it's the first thing you notice, and it's unusual for there to be anything ambiguous or uncertain about a person's race.Replies: @Audacious Epigone
Before YT rigged the game–it’s shocking how every video, no matter who from, is populated by mainstream suggestions on the sidebar and how searches return nothing but mainstream sources, either–Stefan Molyneux videos got more views than those from CNN, Fox News, or NBC. There are a lot of sympathetic lurkers out there. If they all cried out, in unison, that the emperor was naked, we’d have a revolution on our hands. But they won’t because they’re understandably scared.
Then they deserve their fate.Replies: @Audacious Epigone
But they won’t because they’re understandably scared.
Then they deserve their fate.
The power of the r-word in any hypothetical: many of those who said it's OK to admit "any foreigner who has coronavirus" probably heard at some point it would be racist to keep them out, so better give the safe answer.
Of course they're still contemptible.
The US started taking HIV+ immigrants and refugees under Obama.Replies: @eah
The power of the r-word in any hypothetical: …
See e.g. STILL No Non-Chinese Deaths from Coronavirus, But the WASHINGTON POST Wants You to Rat Out Your Neighbors Anyway
A modern maxim ought to go something like this: Unless you can eliminate the chance an accusation of racism might be connected to a possible answer to a question, it’s pointless to ask the question, even during a quasi anonymous survey.
Then they deserve their fate.Replies: @Audacious Epigone
But do their children and their grandchildren? Because that’s where the real suffering is going to be. There is no longer any constituency for those who’ve yet to be born.
Yes, I am very conflicted on the matter and actually don’t see the issue as clear-cut as my statement indicates. I think that I could come out of the closet if I saw an actual coherent way forward.