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The following three things strike me as necessary (if not necessarily sufficient):

1) A moratorium on immigration lasting at least a generation
2) The repatriation of non-citizens unauthorized to be in the country
3) The return of native fertility to at least replacement level

If these things do not happen–and it seems unlikely that any, let alone all, of them will–political dissolution is probably inevitable.

 
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  1. On (1), one generation (20 years) would not nearly be enough. It took 2 generations (from the 1924 large-curtailment to 1965) to assimlate the same ratio of newcomers* last time around. The difference now is that almost all of the newcomers are from parts much more foreign in culture and genetics. Back in the 1880’s through mid-1920′ it was the Germans, E. Europeans, Italians and Irish that took a hell of a long time to fully assimilate.

    I think we need 100 years, and even then, it’ll never really be the same place as it was in 1960.

    .

    * Per a nice simple graph I included here, the foreign-born percentage of the US population is almost right where it was at the peak right at a century ago – 13 1/2 % now (2016) vs. 14 1/2 % back then.

    • Replies: @Hail

    It took 2 generations (from the 1924 large-curtailment to 1965)
     
    I believe net immigration fell off a cliff already by late 1914 with the war in Europe. The 1924 law restricting all but NW European immigration was already in force by a temporary 1921 law of the same sort. It was merely made permanent in 1924.

    The 1965 law only went into effect from July 1, 1968.

    So the effective ~net-zero-immigration period was, perhaps, mid 1914 to mid 1968, or 54 years. At 27 years per generation, that is exactly two generations. In cultural terms, Mid1910s-to-Late1960s feels more like "several" generations.

    , @Cloudbuster
    It took 2 generations (from the 1924 large-curtailment to 1965) to assimlate the same ratio of newcomers*

    How assimilated were they, really? The turn-of-the-century immigrants changed the political landscape forever and made the next big immigration push possible.
    , @Mr. Rational

    The difference now is that almost all of the newcomers are from parts much more foreign in culture and genetics.
     
    True.  It used to be the case that 1/3 of legal immigrants failed to make it in the US and went back home.  For the current crop that should be more like 90%, and return should be mandatory for the likes of Somalis.  AAMOF the entry of Somalis and their ilk to the USA should be prohibited save for diplomatic personnel.
  2. (3) would happen naturally without 2 things: Large-scale immigration and Socialism.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency

    (3) would happen naturally without 2 things: Large-scale immigration and Socialism.
     
    Things have a way of working themselves out.

    The late USSR (post 1970, let's say) had a manufacturing sector that took valuable natural resources and converted them into very low value manufactured items. As a direct result, citizens of the USSR were, to quote an article of the time, "the poorest white people on the planet." It was extrapolated that, by AD 2000 or so, India would have a higher per-capita income than the USSR. Western articles pointed out that the USSR had become "stuck in the 1930s," and, in fact, after the brief attempt at reform under Khrushchev, that had indeed happened. The USSR was, essentially, unable to exit from a wartime economy devoted to preparing for WW II [1].
    As everybody knows, this problem was settled with maximum brute force and massive ignorance during the 1990s by firing the entire manufacturing sector. "Oligarchs" and the Russian Mafia executed the downsizing, with some monitoring and participation by the KGB, since these were the only social groups available who were motivated and capable enough to execute the downsizing. When it comes to demolition and hurting massive numbers of people, nothing matches billionaire thieves, organized crime, and the secret police. It's sort of like Tammany Hall. They might have been very destructive, but the _did_ govern New York City when no other organization could, and the city not only lived through the experience, but did rather well economically.

    So, now the analogy with the US.

    Having lived through it, and had some good seats at a few of the crucial events, my summary of the post WW II time interval is that the US base population (all classes) used their political power to maximize their income. Period. Some did better than other, but that was always the theme. Industrial labor unions used their political power to maximize wages [2]. So did the corporations. So did the welfare recipients. The middle class tried to maximize its wages, but hit had been hard hit by WW II and the Korean War, was disorganized, and was treated as a cross between the immoral and the obsolete.

    During the first part of this process, up until c.a. AD 1970, the large corporate unions reaped the most, with the large corporations being in second place. Welfare recipients made out well in comparison to similar people to other countries, but not in comparison with domestic groups.
    Starting in the mid to late AD1960s, most technical innovation was stopped. Tort laws were changed to make corporations more liable for injuries. The Bell system was broken up by the Federal Judiciary, which destroyed Bell Labs, and other corporate R&D centers were closed down soon thereafter. Work in microelectronics was continued and expanded, but even at the time it was clear that this was largely to improve surveillance of the population.

    The large corporations became economically unproductive, and became worth less than the market value their assets [3]. "Corporate raiders" bought the company and sold the assets. Corporate labor unions became less able to extract high wages, and gradually became much less influential. Corporate management had also become political and unproductive. The Xerox fiasco, which gave away the mouse / windows system to whoever would take it, was just one example [4]. Typically, corporate management was so insensate that corporate R&D labs produced nothing for the corporation, but billions in spin0ffs. Both corporate management _and_ union labor had become unproductive -- much like that in the USSR.

    During the decline of the corporations, the corporate vote was replaced by the welfare vote, which was a lot cheaper per vote than a labor union/ corporate management vote. In fact, the corporations ended up paying both parties for the continued existence of the corporations [5].

    OK, then. More sectors (education, research, space travel (until recently), Protestant churches, local control of schools, etc.) I could talk about, but the same thing happened in all: Secular political control became more important over time, and productivity (in terms of state goals) dropped like a lead plummet into a cesspool. Reliance on cheap votes -- welfare votes -- became dominant.

    Present day Republicans actually believe that they exist to gull the productive population into being productive. They are a sort of leisure time activity of the Democrats. The Democrats have a monopoly on cheap votes, so they'll rule forever.

    But they won't.

    The status quo party in the USSR failed c.a. AD 1990. The status quo party in the US is failing right now. Same process -- massive loss of legitimacy, wide scale disbelief in pro-status quo information, nothing government does is productive, "old reliable" political tricks become ineffective and new political tricks aren't invented to replace them, etc. Personnel quality in government is abyssal (almost literally -- see https://animals.howstuffworks.com/marine-life/10-weird-creatures-from-mariana-trench5.htm and compare with political leadership).

    In very broad systems terms, industrial society has failed because, since the political domination post-WW II, R specialist populations out compete K specialist populations. The was not the case within industrial societies pre-AD 1900 [6].

    It follows, therefore, that either this failure to support K populations well end, or that industrial society will end. In the USSR, the failure to support K populations _did_ end, with maximum brutality and waste, but it ended. It will end here also, and we can see it ending right now.

    It would appear that the critical point will be reached when the political process is unable to pay for vote farms. At this point, the US governments at various levels will become bankrupt (as did the Soviet government in the late AD 1960s), and the political system will change, probably towards regional "strong men". Think of it as reversion to a very crude kind of Federalism. It is very unlikely that cities will do well in this transition [7].

    Trump might or might not save himself. The transition will be a lot less brutal if it has good leadership, so I strongly favor Trump saving himself. His opposition (the US Establishment) would simply do what the USSR's establishment did, and let the ship of state drift into a lee shore.

    And that's it. There is a tide, a zeitgeist, an emergent systems property, here, that is not exactly bigger than humanity, but is more of a property of humanity. Watch it and try not to get caught in the turbulence. Hell, if you can, you might even try surfing.

    Counterinsurgency


    1] the Soviets did a very good job of that, BTW. Their logistics system was considerably superior to that of the West, they had dual purpose everything, such as highways intended for use as landing strips, police vehicles that could be changed to armored personnel carriers, and so on. Cost them a mint, but if Hitler had invaded again they'd have been ready for him. How much their preparations would have bought them given Soviet doctrine for nuclear weapons use (~500 tactical nuclear weapons slated for W. Germany, for example, was a figure released from Soviet archives) is a very good question, but if AD 1942 had ever rolled around again, they'd have been in really good shape.

    2] A popular joke by the 1970s was: "All I want is less work, and more money for not doing it"

    3] The pulp magazine distribution companies, for example, became worth less than the value of the real estate that their urban distribution sites occupied.

    4] And, yes, I was close enough to see what was happening. I wouldn’t want to say that corporate management was composed of purblind fools, and fortunately the fact is so obvious that I don’t have to. Unfortunately, the quality of management has since declined.

    5] Tucker Carlson.
    _Ship of Fools_.
    2018.
    Carlson doesn't exactly phrase it as I have. What he does say is that corporations are politically allied with both Republicans and Democrats, are leading donors to both parties, and have highly favorable laws in return. Note, however, that PG&E is getting looted as we speak because of bad forestry practices by the State of California. The larger corporations are being propped up by various levels of government, but it isn't at all clear who is in charge. Immigration, for example, does not help corporations directly. Does anybody really think that Silicon Valley really needs Indian personnel managers, or that firing James Damore was getting rid of deadwood? More like the corporations are giving cover to the importation of yet more Democratic voters, which would be a payment _to_ politics rather than a benefit _from_ politics.

    6] Gregory Clarke.
    _A farewell to Alms_
    2007.

    7] Gregory Copley.
    _UnCivilization: Urban Geopolitics in a Time of Chaos_.
    2012.
  3. political dissolution is probably inevitable.

    In which case there are two ways to pull it off:
    1) the Czechoslovakia way of shaking hands and parting ways
    2) the Yugoslavia way of stabbing each other in the eye and parting ways

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Indeed. Better for everyone if the landing is a soft one rather than a hard crash into the side of a mountain.
    , @neutral
    Strange that you being a Paki you didn't mention the India partition.
  4. @Achmed E. Newman
    On (1), one generation (20 years) would not nearly be enough. It took 2 generations (from the 1924 large-curtailment to 1965) to assimlate the same ratio of newcomers* last time around. The difference now is that almost all of the newcomers are from parts much more foreign in culture and genetics. Back in the 1880's through mid-1920' it was the Germans, E. Europeans, Italians and Irish that took a hell of a long time to fully assimilate.

    I think we need 100 years, and even then, it'll never really be the same place as it was in 1960.

    .

    * Per a nice simple graph I included here, the foreign-born percentage of the US population is almost right where it was at the peak right at a century ago - 13 1/2 % now (2016) vs. 14 1/2 % back then.

    It took 2 generations (from the 1924 large-curtailment to 1965)

    I believe net immigration fell off a cliff already by late 1914 with the war in Europe. The 1924 law restricting all but NW European immigration was already in force by a temporary 1921 law of the same sort. It was merely made permanent in 1924.

    The 1965 law only went into effect from July 1, 1968.

    So the effective ~net-zero-immigration period was, perhaps, mid 1914 to mid 1968, or 54 years. At 27 years per generation, that is exactly two generations. In cultural terms, Mid1910s-to-Late1960s feels more like “several” generations.

    • Agree: Prodigal son
    • Replies: @Trevor H.

    The 1965 law only went into effect from July 1, 1968.
     
    Yes, and its effects weren't instantaneous even then. It took several more years--nearly two decades in fact--before third-world immigration levels achieved truly nation-wrecking levels. The chart posted by Mr Newman supports this.

    To begin to repair the damage, we have to do more than Mr Epigone suggests. We have to rescind Hart-Celler, and send a lot of people back to the third world where--as they demonstrate daily--they clearly belong.

  5. Fertility issues won’t be solved without a wholesale rejection of feminism, and I mean all of its waves. We’re talking full-fledged patriarchy, women as property, no female-initiated divorce, severe restraints on abortion and birth control, legal protections on thot-patrolling even when violence is employed.

    There is one possible scenario in which that happens, but I don’t think most of you would like it. I’m not a big fan myself.

    Some of you will be saying, “but fertility was fine in the fifties! Muh Baby Boom!” Please understand that this was a highly unstable state, which only took a single generation to crash and burn. If we went back to the fifties, we’d simply end up with the sixties again.

    • Replies: @iffen
    we’d simply end up with the sixties again

    Man, that sounds great. The 60's were like, so heavy, man.
    , @Rosie

    Fertility issues won’t be solved without a wholesale rejection of feminism, and I mean all of its waves.
     
    How do you know?

    It would seem that getting rid of all forms of pornography and birth control would be quite sufficient without enslaving women.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    I doubt that horror show is necessary to increase fertility--and barring civilizational collapse, it will never happen.

    We're 50 years into fornication and procreation being nearly entirely separated (with things like IVF, that separation is complete). The ability to fornicate is no longer what is being selected for. The desire for procreation is. All human traits are heritable. The desire to nurture and raise children is surely not an exception. We're in the process of selecting for breeders now.
    , @AnotherDad

    Fertility issues won’t be solved without a wholesale rejection of feminism, and I mean all of its waves. We’re talking full-fledged patriarchy, women as property, no female-initiated divorce, severe restraints on abortion and birth control, legal protections on thot-patrolling even when violence is employed.
     
    Ridiculous. So much so, i'm actually in agreement--partial--with Rosie on the women issue.

    For starters the West has always been the place with the highest female status. Women were subordinate of course--that's part of civilization--but partners in the family enterprise not chattel. We were never the East.

    Knocking out feminism--specificlaly female careerism as the highest female aspiration--pretty much takes care of the problem.

    Couple that with the sort of aggressive family\fertility prioritizing tax policy that Lot and I have talked up--very high non-refundable child deductions--and you are there. Simple thought experiment: tax rate 80% for singles\childless\empty-nesters; zero for married with 3+ kids. What's fertility look like? Walk that back until you have what you want. No nation has simply been very aggressive yet. All baby steps. (Though Hungary is starting to get more serious.)

    Remember American women say they 2.3 kids and have something like 1.8. It's not exactly rocket science to move the needle up when it's what women actually want. And as AE is pointing out, we are now--post-pill, anti-fertility culture--selecting for people who are "breeders". So, even doing nothing fertility will climb back.

    Which brings me to the final issue ...fundamentally it is all about stopping immigration.

    Stop it, and in time we'll have the recovered fertility which we can encourage with policy to be eugenic. Allow it and we simply drown. Nothing else we do can overcome the deluge.

    Immigration is it. It's the only thing that matters.
  6. @Michael S
    Fertility issues won't be solved without a wholesale rejection of feminism, and I mean all of its waves. We're talking full-fledged patriarchy, women as property, no female-initiated divorce, severe restraints on abortion and birth control, legal protections on thot-patrolling even when violence is employed.

    There is one possible scenario in which that happens, but I don't think most of you would like it. I'm not a big fan myself.

    Some of you will be saying, "but fertility was fine in the fifties! Muh Baby Boom!" Please understand that this was a highly unstable state, which only took a single generation to crash and burn. If we went back to the fifties, we'd simply end up with the sixties again.

    we’d simply end up with the sixties again

    Man, that sounds great. The 60’s were like, so heavy, man.

    • LOL: Talha
  7. I should have just put the graph here to begin with. (I think I first got it off of VDare.):

  8. An immigration hiatus should improve economic prospects for the working class which should facilitate family formation and result in more children. Whether these would be the “right” kind of children for many here is problematic.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    We're swimming in consumables. Housing is expensive in certain places but not in most of the country. We don't need more human units to maximize economic productivity. We need a happy, healthy, stable national community.
  9. While those three things are necessary, they stop short. To continue:

    4. Elimination of the Federal Reserve.
    5. Elimination of welfare entitlements. (this on its own will solve many problems regarding single motherhood, high divorce rates, and illegal immigration)
    6. Reestablishment of freedom of association.

    One particularly big issue is 7. the NQ.

    There are only two answers that I can think of that address the NQ in ways that contribute to the rehabilitation of the Union, and those are:

    a) Repatriation of all but the top 10% of that particular group.
    b) Return that particular group to the subject of intensive localized authority.

    8. Redeployment of all overseas military personal to within US borders.
    9. Full stop on the entirety of foreign aid.
    10. A return to Federalism.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
    I’m skeptical that it’s at all possible to Make America Great Again as other commenters have more eloquently written. But your additional itemized list would be about the best shot. You could shorten your list however to:

    4. Elimination of the Federal Reserve.
    6. Reestablishment of freedom of association.
    9. Full stop on the entirety of foreign aid.
    10. A return to Federalism.
     
    A return to hard currency eliminates a huge bulk of the shenanigans, without funny money to pay for all the stupidity, the stupidity rightfully starves to death. Freedom of Association and the restoration of the 10th Amendment likewise solve a lot of problems. Let the States have welfare or not, restrict population (on any basis) or not, condone abortion or not, in a competitive environment. Let the winners enjoy the fruits of their victory and the losers suffer the consequences of their failures. This would also lead to some restoration of the self-sufficiency we have utterly lost on an individual level. I hesitated to keep your foreign aid above since I think that too should fall under the 10th like federal welfare would. In any case, ending foreign aid would entail ending foreign troop deployments. And one item that should be added is the resurrection of the only true purpose of foreign wars - conquest & spoils. I’m okay with sending troops to Venezuela if their purpose is to steal the country’s vast oil reserves and turn them into a vassal state under our dominion. But the sort of lunacy we have in the Middle East where we spend hundreds of billions and get nothing in return must end.
  10. The USA has been an anti white regime for many decades now, anti white not just against its own white population but also globally, this being the case if you are pro white then you should support the demise of the USA

    • Replies: @Michael S
    You guys realize that white progressives aren't actually anti-white, right? Rhetorically, they are, but not literally. They're fine with other white progressives. When they talk about "whiteness" or "white supremacy" they're not talking about all whites, just badwhites - practicing Christians, European traditionalists, fiscal conservatives, "nationalists", basically anyone who's a potential threat to progressive global governance.

    America hasn't been an anti-white country for decades. It has, however, been a Progressive imperialist country since the early 20th century, and even the 19th depending on one's interpretation of historical facts.

    Everybody wants to believe that there's some brief set of policies that can "save" America, usually revolving around either demographics (immigration/fertility) or economics (welfare state, fiat currency, etc.). Sure, those are important issues. Do you think they just materialized out of thin air? The Progressive parasite has been around much longer than those issues, and just like any chronic disease, it will keep flaring up unless it is completely eliminated. All you get with these policy prescriptions is a bit of temporary relief.
    , @SunBakedSuburb
    " ... if you are pro white then you should support the demise of the USA."

    Unfortunately, this is true.
  11. Anonymous [AKA "An9"] says:

    Id love to see some hope for a post usa where white christian kids would be welcome. But i dont see any fight in whites anywhere. I dont think we get there witjout a massive christian revival to give people a moral framework to fight. That doesn’t seem to be on the horizon.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    It's common to look to central and eastern Europe for hope, but they don't breed enough. They breed even less than northwestern Europeans do. Good luck to Hungary in changing that--the country is going to need it.
  12. …….political dissolution is probably inevitable.

    Nullification and/or secession are the ONLY way forward for white Americans. The so called Union is not worth saving. Corruption is to institutions as rot is to vegetable matter. Garbage will never again be groceries.

  13. @neutral
    The USA has been an anti white regime for many decades now, anti white not just against its own white population but also globally, this being the case if you are pro white then you should support the demise of the USA

    You guys realize that white progressives aren’t actually anti-white, right? Rhetorically, they are, but not literally. They’re fine with other white progressives. When they talk about “whiteness” or “white supremacy” they’re not talking about all whites, just badwhites – practicing Christians, European traditionalists, fiscal conservatives, “nationalists”, basically anyone who’s a potential threat to progressive global governance.

    America hasn’t been an anti-white country for decades. It has, however, been a Progressive imperialist country since the early 20th century, and even the 19th depending on one’s interpretation of historical facts.

    Everybody wants to believe that there’s some brief set of policies that can “save” America, usually revolving around either demographics (immigration/fertility) or economics (welfare state, fiat currency, etc.). Sure, those are important issues. Do you think they just materialized out of thin air? The Progressive parasite has been around much longer than those issues, and just like any chronic disease, it will keep flaring up unless it is completely eliminated. All you get with these policy prescriptions is a bit of temporary relief.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Sure, those are important issues. Do you think they just materialized out of thin air? The Progressive parasite has been around much longer than those issues, and just like any chronic disease, it will keep flaring up unless it is completely eliminated.
     
    This is a bizarre line of reasoning. I call it the “radical fallacy,” that is, the idea that it is not possible to ameliorate the negatives consequences of a phenomenon, while preserving its salutary aspects, without eradicating it completely.

    Progress is not a disease. It is a powerful cure, that will kill the patient if not dosed properly, rather like radiation to treat cancer.

    , @Rosie

    You guys realize that white progressives aren’t actually anti-white, right? Rhetorically, they are, but not literally. They’re fine with other white progressives. When they talk about “whiteness” or “white supremacy” they’re not talking about all whites, just badwhites – practicing Christians, European traditionalists, fiscal conservatives, “nationalists”, basically anyone who’s a potential threat to progressive global governance.
     
    Your definition of anti-White is unreasonably narrow. If a person considers any White person who cares about the continuity of their race to be a bad White, then they are anti-White. Indeed, they would put many so-called anti-Semitrs to shame, many of whom fully respect and appreciate the Jews’ legitimate right to survival and self-determination.
    , @dvorak
    The Shortest-Way With The Dissenters
  14. @Hail

    It took 2 generations (from the 1924 large-curtailment to 1965)
     
    I believe net immigration fell off a cliff already by late 1914 with the war in Europe. The 1924 law restricting all but NW European immigration was already in force by a temporary 1921 law of the same sort. It was merely made permanent in 1924.

    The 1965 law only went into effect from July 1, 1968.

    So the effective ~net-zero-immigration period was, perhaps, mid 1914 to mid 1968, or 54 years. At 27 years per generation, that is exactly two generations. In cultural terms, Mid1910s-to-Late1960s feels more like "several" generations.

    The 1965 law only went into effect from July 1, 1968.

    Yes, and its effects weren’t instantaneous even then. It took several more years–nearly two decades in fact–before third-world immigration levels achieved truly nation-wrecking levels. The chart posted by Mr Newman supports this.

    To begin to repair the damage, we have to do more than Mr Epigone suggests. We have to rescind Hart-Celler, and send a lot of people back to the third world where–as they demonstrate daily–they clearly belong.

  15. Anonymous [AKA "Kent Leland Kroeker, hero of Hispaniola"] says:

    Political dissolution, you say that like it’s a bad thing. Dissolution of the USSR ultimately did Russia a world of good, notwithstanding all the CIA spooks and their skins on the wall stealing everything that wasn’t nailed down. Now Russia has a secure deterrent encompassing escalation control at every level, diplomatic primacy in the G-192 as a whole and world-standard human rights compliance at home. Their culture boasts a domestic Champagne appellation (Szampan,) the first one outside France, and the best grouse I’ve ever had; Russia has all the refinements West Europe used to have, with none of the loony pongid feces-flinging of rump NATO. The subject population of the USA should be so lucky as to see it plop into history’s cesspool with the USSR. I’m quite certain that I’ll live to see that, and I’m no spring chicken. Fuck the USA, no one needs it.

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes

    "Dissolution of the USSR ultimately did Russia a world of good..."
     
    "And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto him, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand." and this was and is the ultimate intent of those fanning racial, ethnic and feminist discontent, anger and resentment. Though, as you point out, things did not turn out as planned.
  16. @Michael S
    Fertility issues won't be solved without a wholesale rejection of feminism, and I mean all of its waves. We're talking full-fledged patriarchy, women as property, no female-initiated divorce, severe restraints on abortion and birth control, legal protections on thot-patrolling even when violence is employed.

    There is one possible scenario in which that happens, but I don't think most of you would like it. I'm not a big fan myself.

    Some of you will be saying, "but fertility was fine in the fifties! Muh Baby Boom!" Please understand that this was a highly unstable state, which only took a single generation to crash and burn. If we went back to the fifties, we'd simply end up with the sixties again.

    Fertility issues won’t be solved without a wholesale rejection of feminism, and I mean all of its waves.

    How do you know?

    It would seem that getting rid of all forms of pornography and birth control would be quite sufficient without enslaving women.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency

    How do you know?
     
    Historical precedent and some practical experience. Women turn to men when women think they need protection, and not until then. If you watch an unattached woman near an unattached man when a a bar fight breaks out you'll see what I mean.

    Counterinsurgency

    , @Counterinsurgency
    I also would not, under any circumstances, propose the enslavement of women. I wouldn't want to impose that on any man. When you own a slave, the slave ends up owning you. You're responsible for feeding, housing, clothing, and for anything the slave does.

    These idiots who propose enslaving women -- the only way any marriage can work is if the woman takes some responsibility for making it work, rather than acting as if she lacks all agency because the the man is a man and values doing everything, so she's scared to take any initiative. Or as if the man is a superman and can do everything. Or as if the man is a tyrant who has to be constantly taken down a peg so she constantly attacks and teaches the kids to attack [1]. A woman is never going to try to show agency if the woman is enslaved.

    So, here's a subculture in which the women are actually enslaved (supposedly role playing).
    It's a strange story:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorean_subculture
    https://www.dailydot.com/irl/gor-gorean-slaves-history/

    The strangeness is that there is a shortage of _men_ who want to participate. It's too much work, full time job, exhausting. That's why the male teenage humans from chatrooms had their day.


    Now, involuntary enslavement is another thing, of course. Women should never be involuntarily enslaved. Even _men_ should never be involuntarily enslaved. But -- the idea that men want to enslave women is beyond ridiculous. Maybe very rich men who don't have trouble caring for the women, but that's it.

    Counterinsurgency
    1] https://www.thoughtco.com/eleanor-of-aquitaine-3529622
    Even a King couldn't live with a contentious woman.
  17. @Michael S
    You guys realize that white progressives aren't actually anti-white, right? Rhetorically, they are, but not literally. They're fine with other white progressives. When they talk about "whiteness" or "white supremacy" they're not talking about all whites, just badwhites - practicing Christians, European traditionalists, fiscal conservatives, "nationalists", basically anyone who's a potential threat to progressive global governance.

    America hasn't been an anti-white country for decades. It has, however, been a Progressive imperialist country since the early 20th century, and even the 19th depending on one's interpretation of historical facts.

    Everybody wants to believe that there's some brief set of policies that can "save" America, usually revolving around either demographics (immigration/fertility) or economics (welfare state, fiat currency, etc.). Sure, those are important issues. Do you think they just materialized out of thin air? The Progressive parasite has been around much longer than those issues, and just like any chronic disease, it will keep flaring up unless it is completely eliminated. All you get with these policy prescriptions is a bit of temporary relief.

    Sure, those are important issues. Do you think they just materialized out of thin air? The Progressive parasite has been around much longer than those issues, and just like any chronic disease, it will keep flaring up unless it is completely eliminated.

    This is a bizarre line of reasoning. I call it the “radical fallacy,” that is, the idea that it is not possible to ameliorate the negatives consequences of a phenomenon, while preserving its salutary aspects, without eradicating it completely.

    Progress is not a disease. It is a powerful cure, that will kill the patient if not dosed properly, rather like radiation to treat cancer.

    • Agree: iffen
    • Replies: @Tyrion 2

    Progress is not a disease. It is a powerful cure, that will kill the patient if not dosed properly, rather like radiation to treat cancer
     
    Reminds me of the old joke about a man visiting his cancer doctor, who regrettably tells him that it is progressive.

    This is a bizarre line of reasoning. I call it the “radical fallacy,” that is, the idea that it is not possible to ameliorate the negatives consequences of a phenomenon, while preserving its salutary aspects, without eradicating it completely.
     
    Yes. Other ideas can be tried - but none are proven.

    The idea of artificial wombs scares me, but stopping women from having to suffer 9 months of pregnancy would surely increase the number of children they choose to have.

    Polygamy might also help, but that's not personally how I see the "good society". I imagine it isn't how most people see it either. (I did enjoy the first episode of the Netflix show "Sister Wives" - they seemed very well-adjusted.)

    Maternity pay for 5 years after birth would also surely do it, but that would be extremely expensive.

    There's plenty of other ideas but it does seem that women are dissatisfied with the majority of men and that this dissatisfaction, whether deserved or not, is a fundemental barrier to building a society with continuity.
  18. @Michael S
    You guys realize that white progressives aren't actually anti-white, right? Rhetorically, they are, but not literally. They're fine with other white progressives. When they talk about "whiteness" or "white supremacy" they're not talking about all whites, just badwhites - practicing Christians, European traditionalists, fiscal conservatives, "nationalists", basically anyone who's a potential threat to progressive global governance.

    America hasn't been an anti-white country for decades. It has, however, been a Progressive imperialist country since the early 20th century, and even the 19th depending on one's interpretation of historical facts.

    Everybody wants to believe that there's some brief set of policies that can "save" America, usually revolving around either demographics (immigration/fertility) or economics (welfare state, fiat currency, etc.). Sure, those are important issues. Do you think they just materialized out of thin air? The Progressive parasite has been around much longer than those issues, and just like any chronic disease, it will keep flaring up unless it is completely eliminated. All you get with these policy prescriptions is a bit of temporary relief.

    You guys realize that white progressives aren’t actually anti-white, right? Rhetorically, they are, but not literally. They’re fine with other white progressives. When they talk about “whiteness” or “white supremacy” they’re not talking about all whites, just badwhites – practicing Christians, European traditionalists, fiscal conservatives, “nationalists”, basically anyone who’s a potential threat to progressive global governance.

    Your definition of anti-White is unreasonably narrow. If a person considers any White person who cares about the continuity of their race to be a bad White, then they are anti-White. Indeed, they would put many so-called anti-Semitrs to shame, many of whom fully respect and appreciate the Jews’ legitimate right to survival and self-determination.

  19. @Anonymous
    Political dissolution, you say that like it's a bad thing. Dissolution of the USSR ultimately did Russia a world of good, notwithstanding all the CIA spooks and their skins on the wall stealing everything that wasn't nailed down. Now Russia has a secure deterrent encompassing escalation control at every level, diplomatic primacy in the G-192 as a whole and world-standard human rights compliance at home. Their culture boasts a domestic Champagne appellation (Szampan,) the first one outside France, and the best grouse I've ever had; Russia has all the refinements West Europe used to have, with none of the loony pongid feces-flinging of rump NATO. The subject population of the USA should be so lucky as to see it plop into history's cesspool with the USSR. I'm quite certain that I'll live to see that, and I'm no spring chicken. Fuck the USA, no one needs it.

    “Dissolution of the USSR ultimately did Russia a world of good…”

    “And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto him, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand.” and this was and is the ultimate intent of those fanning racial, ethnic and feminist discontent, anger and resentment. Though, as you point out, things did not turn out as planned.

  20. @Talha

    political dissolution is probably inevitable.
     
    In which case there are two ways to pull it off:
    1) the Czechoslovakia way of shaking hands and parting ways
    2) the Yugoslavia way of stabbing each other in the eye and parting ways

    Peace.

    Indeed. Better for everyone if the landing is a soft one rather than a hard crash into the side of a mountain.

    • Replies: @anon
    The Left will never be satisfied with separate countries. They have a messianic mission to bring sacred black bodies and female penises to every corner of the globe. If the mid-west separates then California and the Left Nation will insist on open borders and more world immigration to the mid-west. They will not tolerate a majority gentile nation anywhere. Nebraska will be sanctioned like South Africa.
    Any break up of the USA will be violent in the extreme.
    , @Twinkie

    1) A moratorium on immigration lasting at least a generation
    2) The repatriation of non-citizens unauthorized to be in the country
    3) The return of native fertility to at least replacement level
     
    Excellently concise. But very difficult to achieve. People generally tend to think in policy terms, i.e. if we could just alter tax policies, pass anti-immigration laws, etc. In reality, those are outcomes of cultural changes rather than drivers of the latter.

    In my view, what needs to happen is a major cultural paradigm shift, sort of a reverse of what happened with homosexual "marriage." But that is exceptionally difficult to achieve when the media dominance of the Left is almost total.

    There are two solutions to that problem, in my estimation. First, people in the patriotic Right need to stop blabbing only words on the Internet and actually practice what they preach. Get married, have children, positively affect those around them (and convert them where possible) - not by haranguing them, but by setting good examples and being worthy of emulation, and set up parallel institutions where possible (religion, homeschooling, civic/charitable groups, etc.).

    Second, philosophically/ideologically engage in insurgency. Since the patriotic Right does not have the megaphone, the only viable path to convince the majority of people in the country is to goad the Left into becoming ever so monstrous that the ordinary people can see it clearly. Don't let the Left engage in incrementalism and slowly boil all of us until it's too late, but encourage them judiciously into acting hastily and wildly. People tend to reject swift changes that are at odds with their natural instincts, but tend to fall for them when the changes are gradual. In practical terms, this means we should goad more Jusse Smollett-type fake victim-mongering while making sure our political enemies are represented by the black/transgender supremacists. And so on.
  21. @Michael S
    Fertility issues won't be solved without a wholesale rejection of feminism, and I mean all of its waves. We're talking full-fledged patriarchy, women as property, no female-initiated divorce, severe restraints on abortion and birth control, legal protections on thot-patrolling even when violence is employed.

    There is one possible scenario in which that happens, but I don't think most of you would like it. I'm not a big fan myself.

    Some of you will be saying, "but fertility was fine in the fifties! Muh Baby Boom!" Please understand that this was a highly unstable state, which only took a single generation to crash and burn. If we went back to the fifties, we'd simply end up with the sixties again.

    I doubt that horror show is necessary to increase fertility–and barring civilizational collapse, it will never happen.

    We’re 50 years into fornication and procreation being nearly entirely separated (with things like IVF, that separation is complete). The ability to fornicate is no longer what is being selected for. The desire for procreation is. All human traits are heritable. The desire to nurture and raise children is surely not an exception. We’re in the process of selecting for breeders now.

    • Replies: @anon
    We are also selecting for impulsive low IQ people who are too irresponsible to use contraception, while being supported by the welfare system.
    , @Twinkie

    I doubt that horror show is necessary to increase fertility–and barring civilizational collapse, it will never happen.
     
    I have to say, I am with Rosie on this one. Why are some people on the fringes of the Right so quick to throw women under the bus?

    Do they not have wives, mothers, daughters, and sisters? Why this constant desire to enslave them?

    It is true our mainstream culture is sick right now, but most women have natural instincts to be mothers and wives. You can see that in voting patterns (married = more Republican-voting while single = less so and then even the married when divorced vote like singles).

    Women can be equal in human dignity and legal rights, and still be traditional wives and mothers.

    Suggesting slavery of women is indeed a horror show and, frankly, is counterproductive and would only prove what our enemies say about us patriarchal types.
  22. @iffen
    An immigration hiatus should improve economic prospects for the working class which should facilitate family formation and result in more children. Whether these would be the “right” kind of children for many here is problematic.

    We’re swimming in consumables. Housing is expensive in certain places but not in most of the country. We don’t need more human units to maximize economic productivity. We need a happy, healthy, stable national community.

    • Replies: @iffen
    We’re swimming in consumables.

    The people at the shallow end are swimming in sewer water.
  23. @Anonymous
    Id love to see some hope for a post usa where white christian kids would be welcome. But i dont see any fight in whites anywhere. I dont think we get there witjout a massive christian revival to give people a moral framework to fight. That doesn't seem to be on the horizon.

    It’s common to look to central and eastern Europe for hope, but they don’t breed enough. They breed even less than northwestern Europeans do. Good luck to Hungary in changing that–the country is going to need it.

  24. @Talha

    political dissolution is probably inevitable.
     
    In which case there are two ways to pull it off:
    1) the Czechoslovakia way of shaking hands and parting ways
    2) the Yugoslavia way of stabbing each other in the eye and parting ways

    Peace.

    Strange that you being a Paki you didn’t mention the India partition.

    • Replies: @Talha
    There were other examples as well (Pakistan/Bangladesh), but I thought European examples would be better given most of the audience.

    Peace.
    , @iffen
    Give Talha a break, he's trying to play assimilated as best as he can.

    I would think that someone of your persuasion would appreciate his effort.
  25. Legalizing plural marriage would go a long way to dramatically increase white replacement rates as they are the only group (Mormons) to have truly mastered the practice. How dare government stand in the way of adult free persons desire (to be a sister-wife) in this case? How wonderful for America to gain plenty of stolid, self-motivated, employed, nice as heck, law-abiding whites.

    • Replies: @Pontius
    You can't convince me that a lot of these arrangements are only viable through massive welfare abuse.
    , @Cloudbuster
    The Amish don't have plural marriage and they are having children well above replacement rate. They're one of the most fertile sub-groups in the nation. The key is traditional male and female roles and severe discouragement of divorce.
    , @SunBakedSuburb
    I can't handle more than one woman. Plus, Mormonism is completely goofy. It makes Christianity seem logical.
  26. @Rosie

    Sure, those are important issues. Do you think they just materialized out of thin air? The Progressive parasite has been around much longer than those issues, and just like any chronic disease, it will keep flaring up unless it is completely eliminated.
     
    This is a bizarre line of reasoning. I call it the “radical fallacy,” that is, the idea that it is not possible to ameliorate the negatives consequences of a phenomenon, while preserving its salutary aspects, without eradicating it completely.

    Progress is not a disease. It is a powerful cure, that will kill the patient if not dosed properly, rather like radiation to treat cancer.

    Progress is not a disease. It is a powerful cure, that will kill the patient if not dosed properly, rather like radiation to treat cancer

    Reminds me of the old joke about a man visiting his cancer doctor, who regrettably tells him that it is progressive.

    This is a bizarre line of reasoning. I call it the “radical fallacy,” that is, the idea that it is not possible to ameliorate the negatives consequences of a phenomenon, while preserving its salutary aspects, without eradicating it completely.

    Yes. Other ideas can be tried – but none are proven.

    The idea of artificial wombs scares me, but stopping women from having to suffer 9 months of pregnancy would surely increase the number of children they choose to have.

    Polygamy might also help, but that’s not personally how I see the “good society”. I imagine it isn’t how most people see it either. (I did enjoy the first episode of the Netflix show “Sister Wives” – they seemed very well-adjusted.)

    Maternity pay for 5 years after birth would also surely do it, but that would be extremely expensive.

    There’s plenty of other ideas but it does seem that women are dissatisfied with the majority of men and that this dissatisfaction, whether deserved or not, is a fundemental barrier to building a society with continuity.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    There’s plenty of other ideas but it does seem that women are dissatisfied with the majority of men and that this dissatisfaction, whether deserved or not, is a fundemental barrier to building a society with continuity.
     
    I’ve been asking for evidence of this assertion for years, and I’ve still seen none.
    , @Rosie

    The idea of artificial wombs scares me, but stopping women from having to suffer 9 months of pregnancy would surely increase the number of children they choose to have.
     
    Solutions that focus on women presume that it is primarily women who want to limit fertility. There’s no evidence for this claim. From what I hear, some of the solutions on offer in Europe suffer from the same problem.

    Maternity pay for 5 years after birth would also surely do it, but that would be extremely expensive.
     
    This a better stain because it rewards men, albeit more indirectly, as well as women.
    , @Cloudbuster
    I don't think any of those solutions will work in the long run, especially not maternity pay.

    We need to destroy the norm of the two-income family. My view on women in the workplace echoes Hillary Clinton's one-time position on abortion: it should be safe, legal and rare.

    That would drive up the market value of men in the workplace, give children the benefit of a dedicated, nurturing parent at home and strengthen communities -- because it takes someone in the community actually being home and in the community to build it.

    Needless to say, you'd also have to do away with no fault divorce and make single mothers the pariahs they deserve to be.
    , @14WordsToFreedom
    Polygamy only works if there’s a consistent way to kill off most of the male children born. Otherwise you end up with 20% of the men with 99% of the women, and 80% of the men with nothing to lose and no hope to gain.
  27. 1. It will have taken about 3 years for most institutions to come to terms with Brexit as something they can work with. I imagine that it’d take about that long after the immigration pipeline had been turned off for a similar acclimatisation. If the public could ever be allowed to speak clearly and decisively on the single binary issue of immigration moratorium, I really think it could work.

    2. Repatriation of illegal infiltrators is an issue that is so easy for the progressives to win with emotional blackmail. I can’t imagine how one achieves it directly. It seems smarter to me to use e-verify, related ID checks for hotels, housing and everything important, and (a difficult one) getting rid of the expansive interpretation of the 14th Amendment. This might then achieve the dreaded “self-deportation”. Those who remained would likely be professional criminals, and those are not generally sympathetic.

    3. As for native fertility levels, that really is a difficult problem! It needs a book or more…actually, is there a book on how to increase the fertility of a population? It seems that one could write it and get away with it in the mainstream.

  28. @neutral
    Strange that you being a Paki you didn't mention the India partition.

    There were other examples as well (Pakistan/Bangladesh), but I thought European examples would be better given most of the audience.

    Peace.

  29. I always find it amusing, but more importantly instructive, to observe the stark contrast between the media’s output on the question of secession by Texas as opposed to secession by California. Texas: Neo-Confederates want to secede in order to genocide blacks and Hispanics. California: The modern day Shangri-La is being held back by reactionaries and racists and they have every right to ditch the evil dead weight. California is leading the way to the future and it is who we are and should be.

    Also on the subject of the Great Divide, I am currently reading The Great Alignment (recommended by a commenter here, I believe) and I am finding it accurate and informative. (Lots of numbers, BTW) However, he (Abramowitz) keeps saying that there is a divide in the elite. I don’t see a divide in the elite. Does anyone else see indications of any dissent from the elite other than a few academics here and there?

  30. @Audacious Epigone
    We're swimming in consumables. Housing is expensive in certain places but not in most of the country. We don't need more human units to maximize economic productivity. We need a happy, healthy, stable national community.

    We’re swimming in consumables.

    The people at the shallow end are swimming in sewer water.

  31. @neutral
    Strange that you being a Paki you didn't mention the India partition.

    Give Talha a break, he’s trying to play assimilated as best as he can.

    I would think that someone of your persuasion would appreciate his effort.

    • Replies: @neutral
    Assimilation means miscegenation, to want non whites to race mix because of "assimilation" is disgusting, much worse than anything a standard progressive wants in an ideal society.
  32. 1) A moratorium on immigration lasting at least a generation

    But President Kushner wants to *increase* immigration.

    2) The repatriation of non-citizens unauthorized to be in the country

    But deporting anyone for any reason makes VP Ivanka sad.

    3) The return of native fertility to at least replacement level

    Of the 26 states with a TFR above the US average of 1.77, only 2 (Hawaii and Minnesota) voted for Hillary. So among the myriad political and cultural divisions in the US is the one big one between Red State breeders and Blue State aborters.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_fertility_rate

    Political dissolution is not only probably inevitable, but absolutely desirable, for both sides. And it doesn’t have to be something that might happen sometime in the future; practical steps to prepare the ground for dissolution can be taken now.

    There are competing visions of the Pacific Northwest as the future home of Ecotopia, a green lefty paradise, and the Aryan Nation, a white homeland. So why not both? Move the border between Idaho on one hand, and Washington and Oregon on the other, a few hundred miles to the west along the spine of the Cascade Mtns. This would make far more sense from a political, economic, cultural and geographic point of view than the existing border does.

    It would leave the rump states of WA and OR as hard-left bastions without all those conservatives east of the Cascades throwing a wrench into their plans for a progressive utopia. And while a much larger and more powerful Idaho wouldn’t exactly become a white ethnostate, at least not overnight, by “rescuing” all those rightwingers trapped behind enemy lines in eastern WA and OR it would consolidate itself as one of the most conservative states in the union, one day hopefully to become an independent nation in its own right.

    The same could be done to Virginia and West Virginia, with the border between them moved slightly to the east along the Blue Ridge Mtns. This would transfer the right-leaning Shenandoah Valley and SW Virginia from VA to WV. This would leave a smaller Virginia as a bright blue rather than a purple state, and a bigger WV as a ruby red stronghold.

    Changes like these would not affect any other states, nor would it change the total number of states. It would slightly favor the GOP in the Electoral College, but the point is not to gain any partisan advantage, but to reorganize the states along more rational lines and prepare them for eventual independence. Once these changes are made it would be easier to subdivide some of the other states, starting with the Big 6.

    California could and should be divided into a fiercely leftist Inner California (SF Bay Area, Central Coast, Greater LA), and a moderate Outer California (San Diego, all the inland counties including Sacramento, North Coast).

    Texas can legally be split into 5 states, but it would be far easier to divide it into just 2. Hive off the entire Rio Grande Valley from El Paso to Brownsville, up to and including San Antonio and Corpus Christi to create a heavily Hispanic and Democratic South Texas (Tejas do Sul?), while the rest of Texas regains its white majority and staunch Republican voting patterns.

    Florida could be divided just north of Orlando into a white-majority and ferociously conservative Northern Florida, and a largely Hispanic, purple-leaning-towards-blue state of Southern Florida.

    New York could be split between the 5 Boroughs, Long Island, Westchester and Rockland Counties on one hand, and Upstate NY on the other. Greater NYC would be a far-left one-party state, while Upstate would have competitive politics, perhaps leaning Republican.

    Illinois could be divided roughly the same way, with Greater Chicago (“Chicagoland”) as a leftist bastion, and Downstate IL as an overwhelmingly white and conservative state.

    Pennsylvania could be divided roughly along the Allegheny Mtns, with Eastern PA (including Harrisburg) as a Democratic state, and Western PA as a Republican one.

    Even if the US survives in the long run, which is doubtful, under this scenario millions more Americans would now live in states more reflective of their politics, ethnicity and culture, which IMO is good for everyone: left, center or right, black, brown or white.

    But I think it’s more likely for America’s continental empire to fragment into 50 to 60 independent nations. Europe west of Russia is divided into something like 45 sovereign states, and is much smaller than the US. So America eventually subdividing into a similar number of nations would be perfectly normal and consistent with international norms.

    There’s no reason why we can’t (and lots of reasons why we should) start drawing these future international borders now.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational

    I think it’s more likely for America’s continental empire to fragment into 50 to 60 independent nations.
     
    Eh, doubtful.  There are no natural borders for that many divisions, and the general commonalities of language and culture among the majority means that the White fraction will tend to link up into a few large units.

    The blacks and browns, not so much.  They are generally crammed into small urban islands and riven by differences of their own:  Cubans and Mexicans get along poorly, both regard Guatemalans as trash, and they treat ethnic cleansing of blacks as a moral duty.

    What this portends is a sea of red with all the resources surrounding islands of blue with none, and the red starving the blue out until they go home.

  33. Why is your regular blog closed to the general public, but this one is open?

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    This is where the discussion is! The old blog is in archival status now.
  34. @Franz Liszt von Raiding
    Legalizing plural marriage would go a long way to dramatically increase white replacement rates as they are the only group (Mormons) to have truly mastered the practice. How dare government stand in the way of adult free persons desire (to be a sister-wife) in this case? How wonderful for America to gain plenty of stolid, self-motivated, employed, nice as heck, law-abiding whites.

    You can’t convince me that a lot of these arrangements are only viable through massive welfare abuse.

  35. @Tyrion 2

    Progress is not a disease. It is a powerful cure, that will kill the patient if not dosed properly, rather like radiation to treat cancer
     
    Reminds me of the old joke about a man visiting his cancer doctor, who regrettably tells him that it is progressive.

    This is a bizarre line of reasoning. I call it the “radical fallacy,” that is, the idea that it is not possible to ameliorate the negatives consequences of a phenomenon, while preserving its salutary aspects, without eradicating it completely.
     
    Yes. Other ideas can be tried - but none are proven.

    The idea of artificial wombs scares me, but stopping women from having to suffer 9 months of pregnancy would surely increase the number of children they choose to have.

    Polygamy might also help, but that's not personally how I see the "good society". I imagine it isn't how most people see it either. (I did enjoy the first episode of the Netflix show "Sister Wives" - they seemed very well-adjusted.)

    Maternity pay for 5 years after birth would also surely do it, but that would be extremely expensive.

    There's plenty of other ideas but it does seem that women are dissatisfied with the majority of men and that this dissatisfaction, whether deserved or not, is a fundemental barrier to building a society with continuity.

    There’s plenty of other ideas but it does seem that women are dissatisfied with the majority of men and that this dissatisfaction, whether deserved or not, is a fundemental barrier to building a society with continuity.

    I’ve been asking for evidence of this assertion for years, and I’ve still seen none.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    My lying eyes doth not deceive me.

    Anyway, as the individual whom women talk to, I will not believe other than what I have stated. It must be my diminutive size.
  36. @Tyrion 2

    Progress is not a disease. It is a powerful cure, that will kill the patient if not dosed properly, rather like radiation to treat cancer
     
    Reminds me of the old joke about a man visiting his cancer doctor, who regrettably tells him that it is progressive.

    This is a bizarre line of reasoning. I call it the “radical fallacy,” that is, the idea that it is not possible to ameliorate the negatives consequences of a phenomenon, while preserving its salutary aspects, without eradicating it completely.
     
    Yes. Other ideas can be tried - but none are proven.

    The idea of artificial wombs scares me, but stopping women from having to suffer 9 months of pregnancy would surely increase the number of children they choose to have.

    Polygamy might also help, but that's not personally how I see the "good society". I imagine it isn't how most people see it either. (I did enjoy the first episode of the Netflix show "Sister Wives" - they seemed very well-adjusted.)

    Maternity pay for 5 years after birth would also surely do it, but that would be extremely expensive.

    There's plenty of other ideas but it does seem that women are dissatisfied with the majority of men and that this dissatisfaction, whether deserved or not, is a fundemental barrier to building a society with continuity.

    The idea of artificial wombs scares me, but stopping women from having to suffer 9 months of pregnancy would surely increase the number of children they choose to have.

    Solutions that focus on women presume that it is primarily women who want to limit fertility. There’s no evidence for this claim. From what I hear, some of the solutions on offer in Europe suffer from the same problem.

    Maternity pay for 5 years after birth would also surely do it, but that would be extremely expensive.

    This a better stain because it rewards men, albeit more indirectly, as well as women.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    This a better stain because it rewards men, albeit more indirectly, as well as women.
     
    Groans... “stain” should be “solution.”

    Also...


    Yes. Other ideas can be tried – but none are proven.
     
    Enslavement of women is also unproven. For it to be proven, you’d have to try it again, with the following coincidents:

    *Highly effective artificial birth control.
    *Rampant pornography.
    *Pervasive secularism and the concomitant selfish hedonism of momentary pleasure.

    , @Tyrion 2

    Solutions that focus on women presume that it is primarily women who want to limit fertility.
     
    Women bear most of the burden. Easing that can only help!

    I also was thinking more of how to nudge couples with 2 or 3 to have some more, rather than how to tie up perennial singletons. It seems like the easier first step.
    , @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    Solutions that focus on women presume that it is primarily women who want to limit fertility.
     
    I actually agree with this. Women are naturally followers of men. Then act in a way that they think will make them desirable for men.

    Many young men (of all races) don't want kids. They don't necessarily want to get married. This happens for various reasons - divorced parents, child support laws, Tinder and easy access to sex. Let's be honest - a decent looking man can get all the sex he desires and more, no strings attached, in a big city. If the woman gets pregnant - well, he scares her, tells her he's never going to raise the kid with her and then takes her to the abortion clinic.

    So, women adapt accordingly.

    I think that an excellent strategy would start in education - teach young men that they have a *duty* and a *responsibility* to raise a family and provide for their wife. Teach them that they are the leaders of society, but with power comes responsibility.

    Men are certainly not innocent in the fertility crisis.
  37. @Rosie

    The idea of artificial wombs scares me, but stopping women from having to suffer 9 months of pregnancy would surely increase the number of children they choose to have.
     
    Solutions that focus on women presume that it is primarily women who want to limit fertility. There’s no evidence for this claim. From what I hear, some of the solutions on offer in Europe suffer from the same problem.

    Maternity pay for 5 years after birth would also surely do it, but that would be extremely expensive.
     
    This a better stain because it rewards men, albeit more indirectly, as well as women.

    This a better stain because it rewards men, albeit more indirectly, as well as women.

    Groans… “stain” should be “solution.”

    Also…

    Yes. Other ideas can be tried – but none are proven.

    Enslavement of women is also unproven. For it to be proven, you’d have to try it again, with the following coincidents:

    *Highly effective artificial birth control.
    *Rampant pornography.
    *Pervasive secularism and the concomitant selfish hedonism of momentary pleasure.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    I’ve been thinking lately about the manosphere case against women. It occurs to me that it proceeds according to a very fundamental double standard.

    Men are presumed rational egoists. This is considered normal and healthy, even a sign of vitality.

    When considering whether to form a family, it is presumed they will ask, “What’s in this for men, right now, in terms of my own pleasure, comfort, and overall personal advantage?” Society should be structured to cater to men and their interests, claim the manospherians. If it does otherwise, it is corrupt and degenerate.

    On the other hand, women are presumed communitarians. They are not to ask, “Whats in this for me, right now, in terms of my own pleasure, comfort, md overall personal advantage?” If they do, they are corrupt and degenerate. From this it follows that they should be subject to coercion in various forms.

    This is how the manospherians take a situation in which hyperindividualism, rife among both men and women, with predictable corrosive consequences, is really proof that “women are the problem.” This is nothing more nor less than the old reactionary insistence that men are the only real humans with interests society is bound to respect or consider, while women exist solely to cater to men. There is nothing “neo” about these reactionaries.

    Men think they should get to keep their own individualism, while denying the same for women.

    Individualism for me.
    Selflessness for thee.

    , @Michael S
    Hilarious. "Enslavement" of women is "unproven". As if women have not been considered property for almost all of human history, across a majority of civilizations and cultures, and as if female emancipation hasn't consistently precipitated steep decline every time.

    Take your feminism and shove it, shill.
  38. @Achmed E. Newman
    On (1), one generation (20 years) would not nearly be enough. It took 2 generations (from the 1924 large-curtailment to 1965) to assimlate the same ratio of newcomers* last time around. The difference now is that almost all of the newcomers are from parts much more foreign in culture and genetics. Back in the 1880's through mid-1920' it was the Germans, E. Europeans, Italians and Irish that took a hell of a long time to fully assimilate.

    I think we need 100 years, and even then, it'll never really be the same place as it was in 1960.

    .

    * Per a nice simple graph I included here, the foreign-born percentage of the US population is almost right where it was at the peak right at a century ago - 13 1/2 % now (2016) vs. 14 1/2 % back then.

    It took 2 generations (from the 1924 large-curtailment to 1965) to assimlate the same ratio of newcomers*

    How assimilated were they, really? The turn-of-the-century immigrants changed the political landscape forever and made the next big immigration push possible.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Yep, that's true. The country was changed - I don't think the immigration push was inevitable at that point, though, due to that. The same people that fought the immigration law of 1924 (which was, of course passed anyway, and signed by one of my favorite Presidents, Silent Cal), just kept on fighting fighting right on up through 1965, or hell, today.

    I will say that by 30 years after that immigration act, the country was pretty united. Then came the mid-1960's...
  39. @Tyrion 2

    Progress is not a disease. It is a powerful cure, that will kill the patient if not dosed properly, rather like radiation to treat cancer
     
    Reminds me of the old joke about a man visiting his cancer doctor, who regrettably tells him that it is progressive.

    This is a bizarre line of reasoning. I call it the “radical fallacy,” that is, the idea that it is not possible to ameliorate the negatives consequences of a phenomenon, while preserving its salutary aspects, without eradicating it completely.
     
    Yes. Other ideas can be tried - but none are proven.

    The idea of artificial wombs scares me, but stopping women from having to suffer 9 months of pregnancy would surely increase the number of children they choose to have.

    Polygamy might also help, but that's not personally how I see the "good society". I imagine it isn't how most people see it either. (I did enjoy the first episode of the Netflix show "Sister Wives" - they seemed very well-adjusted.)

    Maternity pay for 5 years after birth would also surely do it, but that would be extremely expensive.

    There's plenty of other ideas but it does seem that women are dissatisfied with the majority of men and that this dissatisfaction, whether deserved or not, is a fundemental barrier to building a society with continuity.

    I don’t think any of those solutions will work in the long run, especially not maternity pay.

    We need to destroy the norm of the two-income family. My view on women in the workplace echoes Hillary Clinton’s one-time position on abortion: it should be safe, legal and rare.

    That would drive up the market value of men in the workplace, give children the benefit of a dedicated, nurturing parent at home and strengthen communities — because it takes someone in the community actually being home and in the community to build it.

    Needless to say, you’d also have to do away with no fault divorce and make single mothers the pariahs they deserve to be.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Rosie
    I agree with everything you say here, except this:

    Needless to say, you’d also have to ... make single mothers the pariahs they deserve to be.
     
    This is special pleading on behalf of men. When two people are guilty of a joint crime, they face the consequences together in every other circumstance. There is no justification for making an exception here now that men can be held responsible by way of paternity testing. (Yes, the manosphere crybabies are quite bitter about this turn of events!)

    My own mother chose to face an uncertain future as a single mother rather than take the easy way out and “terminate” me. We are both very glad of this.

    In any event, this is very well-said:


    My view on women in the workplace echoes Hillary Clinton’s one-time position on abortion: it should be safe, legal and rare.
     
    , @Audacious Epigone
    Coming after women in the workforce directly is a non-starter. Something like a stipend of $1000 month for married mothers who forgo employment until the child is five years old would probably be a better approach. It's not much of an incentive for high-earning--and thus generally highly skilled--women, but for women doing menial labor or monotonous white-collar work who are aren't economically critical, it makes the decision to have a child less of a financial hardship.
  40. @Franz Liszt von Raiding
    Legalizing plural marriage would go a long way to dramatically increase white replacement rates as they are the only group (Mormons) to have truly mastered the practice. How dare government stand in the way of adult free persons desire (to be a sister-wife) in this case? How wonderful for America to gain plenty of stolid, self-motivated, employed, nice as heck, law-abiding whites.

    The Amish don’t have plural marriage and they are having children well above replacement rate. They’re one of the most fertile sub-groups in the nation. The key is traditional male and female roles and severe discouragement of divorce.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    The key is traditional male and female roles and severe discouragement of divorce.
     
    Indeed. Amish women have the advantage of a great deal of help and support from other traditional moms in the community. While modern, mainstream women are pumping breast milk at work, Amish women get to nurse and bond with their babies (and having meals delivered and getting help with housework from other moms and their teenage daughters in the area).
  41. @Rosie

    This a better stain because it rewards men, albeit more indirectly, as well as women.
     
    Groans... “stain” should be “solution.”

    Also...


    Yes. Other ideas can be tried – but none are proven.
     
    Enslavement of women is also unproven. For it to be proven, you’d have to try it again, with the following coincidents:

    *Highly effective artificial birth control.
    *Rampant pornography.
    *Pervasive secularism and the concomitant selfish hedonism of momentary pleasure.

    I’ve been thinking lately about the manosphere case against women. It occurs to me that it proceeds according to a very fundamental double standard.

    Men are presumed rational egoists. This is considered normal and healthy, even a sign of vitality.

    When considering whether to form a family, it is presumed they will ask, “What’s in this for men, right now, in terms of my own pleasure, comfort, and overall personal advantage?” Society should be structured to cater to men and their interests, claim the manospherians. If it does otherwise, it is corrupt and degenerate.

    On the other hand, women are presumed communitarians. They are not to ask, “Whats in this for me, right now, in terms of my own pleasure, comfort, md overall personal advantage?” If they do, they are corrupt and degenerate. From this it follows that they should be subject to coercion in various forms.

    This is how the manospherians take a situation in which hyperindividualism, rife among both men and women, with predictable corrosive consequences, is really proof that “women are the problem.” This is nothing more nor less than the old reactionary insistence that men are the only real humans with interests society is bound to respect or consider, while women exist solely to cater to men. There is nothing “neo” about these reactionaries.

    Men think they should get to keep their own individualism, while denying the same for women.

    Individualism for me.
    Selflessness for thee.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    My experience is different. All the women in my life share all of their pain with me and I have to feel it. But if I ever share anything back, they are clearly repulsed and try their best to shut down the conversation. They are nonetheless good and compassionate people.

    Men have to be rational egotists or else they get abused by women.

    #Toxicmasculinity is what women want.
  42. @Cloudbuster
    I don't think any of those solutions will work in the long run, especially not maternity pay.

    We need to destroy the norm of the two-income family. My view on women in the workplace echoes Hillary Clinton's one-time position on abortion: it should be safe, legal and rare.

    That would drive up the market value of men in the workplace, give children the benefit of a dedicated, nurturing parent at home and strengthen communities -- because it takes someone in the community actually being home and in the community to build it.

    Needless to say, you'd also have to do away with no fault divorce and make single mothers the pariahs they deserve to be.

    I agree with everything you say here, except this:

    Needless to say, you’d also have to … make single mothers the pariahs they deserve to be.

    This is special pleading on behalf of men. When two people are guilty of a joint crime, they face the consequences together in every other circumstance. There is no justification for making an exception here now that men can be held responsible by way of paternity testing. (Yes, the manosphere crybabies are quite bitter about this turn of events!)

    My own mother chose to face an uncertain future as a single mother rather than take the easy way out and “terminate” me. We are both very glad of this.

    In any event, this is very well-said:

    My view on women in the workplace echoes Hillary Clinton’s one-time position on abortion: it should be safe, legal and rare.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    Fair enough. It takes two to make a shotgun marriage. The demise of the sentiment that a man has an obligation to marry a woman he impregnates (and the woman has little recourse but to accept that proposition) and to stick with the resulting family at all costs is as corrosive as the modern hero worship of single mothers, and the corresponding worship of casual sex by both sexes.
  43. @Rosie

    There’s plenty of other ideas but it does seem that women are dissatisfied with the majority of men and that this dissatisfaction, whether deserved or not, is a fundemental barrier to building a society with continuity.
     
    I’ve been asking for evidence of this assertion for years, and I’ve still seen none.

    My lying eyes doth not deceive me.

    Anyway, as the individual whom women talk to, I will not believe other than what I have stated. It must be my diminutive size.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    My lying eyes doth not deceive me.

     

    Nor mine.

    Much is made of the fact that there aren’t enough of the men women say they want to go around.

    But then, of course, we all know that there aren’t nearly enough women of the kind desired by men to go around either, especially now that they have porn.

    The question is this: “Who is refusing to settle for whom?” As I said, there is no evidence whatsoever that women are particularly to blame in this regard.
  44. @Cloudbuster
    The Amish don't have plural marriage and they are having children well above replacement rate. They're one of the most fertile sub-groups in the nation. The key is traditional male and female roles and severe discouragement of divorce.

    The key is traditional male and female roles and severe discouragement of divorce.

    Indeed. Amish women have the advantage of a great deal of help and support from other traditional moms in the community. While modern, mainstream women are pumping breast milk at work, Amish women get to nurse and bond with their babies (and having meals delivered and getting help with housework from other moms and their teenage daughters in the area).

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Indeed. Amish women have the advantage of a great deal of help and support from other traditional moms in the community. While modern, mainstream women are pumping breast milk at work, Amish women get to nurse and bond with their babies (and having meals delivered and getting help with housework from other moms and their teenage daughters in the area).
     
    My wife and I have all that, and we are (traditional) Catholics. We eagerly babysit for each other in our religious community, there are meal trains galore for every birth, we look out for one another in every way possible. And we are all highly fertile! :) (Well, not my wife and I anymore as we are past that age.)

    This is not specifically directed at you, but I often hear a lot of people who gripe about lack of similar support as the reason why they don't have more children. I find this - frankly - whiney. Most people want, want, want for themselves, but think very little of contributing first. When they join a group, usually they think of what benefits they can obtain from it, rather than what they can give.

    It's like "The Gift of the Magi." If people only think of doing "their share," the group is going to fail, because people are flawed and sometimes to fail to reach their goals. Soon enough you have people doing slightly less than their share, and there grow mutual resentment and dissolution.

    Successful mutual-support and -aid groups have to start with some strong commonality - usually religion that reinforces "we are in it together mentality" and mutual-trust. In that kind of environment, people can eagerly contribute and volunteer first - do MORE than their share - without fearing that they will be taken advantage of. In other words, in order to benefit from such support - other moms and their daughters who help - you have to be willing to contribute more to them than you might receive in return. Yes, it is exactly like any form of love - sacrifice without expectation of return. And when most members behave this way, it is beautiful.

    But it also means that those who enter it with the "net benefit" calculation are doomed to fail. And sadly, that's how most people are these days.

    I still remember the first house my wife and I bought. People used to wave at each other at most and nothing else. The area was full of complaints by people that others (always others) were unfriendly. My wife and I thought about it and knocked on every door in our community and organized a block party. We ended up becoming close friends with several of the community members (two of them became godparents to one of my daughters, and my wife and I became godparents to a daughter of theirs). The block parties still go on in that community all these years later (we go back occasionally).

    Instead of whining and complaining, somebody has to roll up and sleeves and start building that social capital.
  45. @Tyrion 2
    My lying eyes doth not deceive me.

    Anyway, as the individual whom women talk to, I will not believe other than what I have stated. It must be my diminutive size.

    My lying eyes doth not deceive me.

    Nor mine.

    Much is made of the fact that there aren’t enough of the men women say they want to go around.

    But then, of course, we all know that there aren’t nearly enough women of the kind desired by men to go around either, especially now that they have porn.

    The question is this: “Who is refusing to settle for whom?” As I said, there is no evidence whatsoever that women are particularly to blame in this regard.

    • Replies: @GU
    “But then, of course, we all know that there aren’t nearly enough women of the kind desired by men to go around either, especially now that they have porn.”

    It cracks me up that women think men are so turned on by porn actresses. The average porn actress is a 6 out of 10. That is in comparison to other women 18 - 30 years old. Thinking back on my past girlfriends, they are all hotter than the average porn actress. Guys watch porn because they don’t have immediate access to the real thing, not because the girls are so objectively hot.

    Older men may be genuinely attracted to porn actresses, but that is only because a non-obese 20-year old will 99% of the time be more attractive than a 50-year old wife.

    A hilarious irony about porn is that the guys are almost always more physically attractive than the girl they’re banging.
  46. @Rosie
    I agree with everything you say here, except this:

    Needless to say, you’d also have to ... make single mothers the pariahs they deserve to be.
     
    This is special pleading on behalf of men. When two people are guilty of a joint crime, they face the consequences together in every other circumstance. There is no justification for making an exception here now that men can be held responsible by way of paternity testing. (Yes, the manosphere crybabies are quite bitter about this turn of events!)

    My own mother chose to face an uncertain future as a single mother rather than take the easy way out and “terminate” me. We are both very glad of this.

    In any event, this is very well-said:


    My view on women in the workplace echoes Hillary Clinton’s one-time position on abortion: it should be safe, legal and rare.
     

    Fair enough. It takes two to make a shotgun marriage. The demise of the sentiment that a man has an obligation to marry a woman he impregnates (and the woman has little recourse but to accept that proposition) and to stick with the resulting family at all costs is as corrosive as the modern hero worship of single mothers, and the corresponding worship of casual sex by both sexes.

    • Agree: Rosie
  47. @Rosie
    I’ve been thinking lately about the manosphere case against women. It occurs to me that it proceeds according to a very fundamental double standard.

    Men are presumed rational egoists. This is considered normal and healthy, even a sign of vitality.

    When considering whether to form a family, it is presumed they will ask, “What’s in this for men, right now, in terms of my own pleasure, comfort, and overall personal advantage?” Society should be structured to cater to men and their interests, claim the manospherians. If it does otherwise, it is corrupt and degenerate.

    On the other hand, women are presumed communitarians. They are not to ask, “Whats in this for me, right now, in terms of my own pleasure, comfort, md overall personal advantage?” If they do, they are corrupt and degenerate. From this it follows that they should be subject to coercion in various forms.

    This is how the manospherians take a situation in which hyperindividualism, rife among both men and women, with predictable corrosive consequences, is really proof that “women are the problem.” This is nothing more nor less than the old reactionary insistence that men are the only real humans with interests society is bound to respect or consider, while women exist solely to cater to men. There is nothing “neo” about these reactionaries.

    Men think they should get to keep their own individualism, while denying the same for women.

    Individualism for me.
    Selflessness for thee.

    My experience is different. All the women in my life share all of their pain with me and I have to feel it. But if I ever share anything back, they are clearly repulsed and try their best to shut down the conversation. They are nonetheless good and compassionate people.

    Men have to be rational egotists or else they get abused by women.

    #Toxicmasculinity is what women want.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    I've experienced that. We've had some pretty rough times in the family the past few months and with my Dad dead these 19 years now, I have literally nobody to talk with about it, nobody with whom I can let down my guard. I can't show weakness to my wife or daughters, because they just fall apart if I do. My remaining son can take it, but he isn't a father yet (one on the way, though) so he's never been in this position and it doesn't feel right to vent to your own kid.

    I've got a couple male friends I probably could talk to, but it also doesn't feel right. They don't want to deal with my crap, regardless of what they say. Man, when I was younger, I never asked my Dad's advice about anything, but now that he's gone, I wish to be able to talk to him all the time.
    , @Rosie

    Men have to be rational egotists or else they get abused by women.
     
    Women can say the same.
    , @Tyrion 2
    Wow, obviously over-stated my case a bit...I suppose it is better than calling Valerie Jarrett a terrorist or whatever.
  48. @Tyrion 2
    My experience is different. All the women in my life share all of their pain with me and I have to feel it. But if I ever share anything back, they are clearly repulsed and try their best to shut down the conversation. They are nonetheless good and compassionate people.

    Men have to be rational egotists or else they get abused by women.

    #Toxicmasculinity is what women want.

    I’ve experienced that. We’ve had some pretty rough times in the family the past few months and with my Dad dead these 19 years now, I have literally nobody to talk with about it, nobody with whom I can let down my guard. I can’t show weakness to my wife or daughters, because they just fall apart if I do. My remaining son can take it, but he isn’t a father yet (one on the way, though) so he’s never been in this position and it doesn’t feel right to vent to your own kid.

    I’ve got a couple male friends I probably could talk to, but it also doesn’t feel right. They don’t want to deal with my crap, regardless of what they say. Man, when I was younger, I never asked my Dad’s advice about anything, but now that he’s gone, I wish to be able to talk to him all the time.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Mistake No.1 on Internet is "get personal".

    You said yourself

    ...I have literally nobody to talk with about it, nobody with whom I can let down my guard.
     
    If you can't do it with people face to face, what can you expect on Internet?
    Take a look at example on this very site when the author mentioned his "Hibernation" for personal reasons.
    Sociopaths and psychopaths can't have enough of it online.....

    Having said all that above, a bit of unsolicited opinion from an older man with plenty of life experience (or so I say). Old school, too, to boot,so make of that what you will.

    You NEVER let your guard online. Ever.

    I’ve got a couple male friends I probably could talk to, but it also doesn’t feel right. They don’t want to deal with my crap, regardless of what they say.
     
    Maybe you could reassess your "friends".
    An example: when a man is back from action which was emotionally HARD, he, of course, can't talk about that with his family. He can't about it with civilians. What he can do is talk with his mates who've "been there". That's why, some say, true friendship comes only from true shared hardship.
    But, here is the secret, of sort. RINGS. As operating system/processor rings. Even with a best friend who shared a trench with you ...you can't talk about things in the Ring One. Only in Ring Two.
    With your woman, only about things from Ring Three up.
    Ring One is only for you. YOU deal with that, or not. That's what a man is all about...I guess...hehe..
    Makes sense?

    As for:

    Man, when I was younger, I never asked my Dad’s advice about anything, but now that he’s gone, I wish to be able to talk to him all the time.
     
    You'll get at age when you are older than your Dad was when he passed away, probably.
    Then, you'll realize that there is actually nobody, really, to ask an advice from. The answers are in the Ring One.
    Makes sense ?
  49. @MikeatMikedotMike
    While those three things are necessary, they stop short. To continue:

    4. Elimination of the Federal Reserve.
    5. Elimination of welfare entitlements. (this on its own will solve many problems regarding single motherhood, high divorce rates, and illegal immigration)
    6. Reestablishment of freedom of association.

    One particularly big issue is 7. the NQ.

    There are only two answers that I can think of that address the NQ in ways that contribute to the rehabilitation of the Union, and those are:

    a) Repatriation of all but the top 10% of that particular group.
    b) Return that particular group to the subject of intensive localized authority.

    8. Redeployment of all overseas military personal to within US borders.
    9. Full stop on the entirety of foreign aid.
    10. A return to Federalism.

    I’m skeptical that it’s at all possible to Make America Great Again as other commenters have more eloquently written. But your additional itemized list would be about the best shot. You could shorten your list however to:

    4. Elimination of the Federal Reserve.
    6. Reestablishment of freedom of association.
    9. Full stop on the entirety of foreign aid.
    10. A return to Federalism.

    A return to hard currency eliminates a huge bulk of the shenanigans, without funny money to pay for all the stupidity, the stupidity rightfully starves to death. Freedom of Association and the restoration of the 10th Amendment likewise solve a lot of problems. Let the States have welfare or not, restrict population (on any basis) or not, condone abortion or not, in a competitive environment. Let the winners enjoy the fruits of their victory and the losers suffer the consequences of their failures. This would also lead to some restoration of the self-sufficiency we have utterly lost on an individual level. I hesitated to keep your foreign aid above since I think that too should fall under the 10th like federal welfare would. In any case, ending foreign aid would entail ending foreign troop deployments. And one item that should be added is the resurrection of the only true purpose of foreign wars – conquest & spoils. I’m okay with sending troops to Venezuela if their purpose is to steal the country’s vast oil reserves and turn them into a vassal state under our dominion. But the sort of lunacy we have in the Middle East where we spend hundreds of billions and get nothing in return must end.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    I’m okay with sending troops to Venezuela if their purpose is to steal the country’s vast oil reserves and turn them into a vassal state under our dominion.
     
    I oppose the action in Venezuela on principled nationalist grounds. The lastthing we need is more White guilt that can be exploited for the benefit of non-Whites.

    “You’re only rich because you stole our resources. Let us in!”
    , @MikeatMikedotMike
    "You could shorten your list however to:"

    That's true. Those things in effect would result in some of the other points by design.

    "Let the States have welfare or not, restrict population (on any basis) or not, condone abortion or not, in a competitive environment. Let the winners enjoy the fruits of their victory and the losers suffer the consequences of their failures."

    I agree with this - but an unforeseen consequence that must be addressed is that of foolish whites voting in the very policies that turned their communities into Baltimore, and then fleeing those communities only to again vote for the same policies that turned their latest destination into another Baltimore. Especially if the NQ isn't going to be addressed directly.

    Limitations on new resident voting would have to be applied, not only to prevent the above but also to incentivize people to apply forethought to their voting habits, in terms of investing in the long term future of their communities. For example, if I'm a left-ish do-gooding egalitarian gape faced neck bearded hipster from the north side of Chicago who loves all people equally because all people are equal, but now I have a newborn and I'm not so sure I want him/her to attend a Chicago public school with all of those angry African Americans who have every right to hate whitey because of how hard we work to try to seem not racist, maybe I'll move to Boise, Idaho with anther 10 or 15 thousand families who think just like me and obliviously start voting for the same policies that resulted in the situation that had me leaving Chicago to begin with. I'm open to anything from a 10 year wait and up on newly interstate relocated citizens. We can also increase the minimum voting age to 25.

    I'm also not against changing the voting parameters to include only married hetero couples with children. One vote per intact family. Everybody attends the polling place in order to cast a ballot.

    Voting is mistakenly defined as a right. It is a privilege that should not be taken for granted.

    "I’m skeptical that it’s at all possible to Make America Great Again as other commenters have more eloquently written."

    As am I. But it's a dreary Sunday afternoon and there's little else to do but have a cup of coffee and pontificate about such things.
    , @Talha

    I’m okay with sending troops to Venezuela if their purpose is to steal the country’s vast oil reserves and turn them into a vassal state under our dominion.
     
    I'm super-OK with you or your kids grabbing a rifle and being on the first boats to establish a beachhead there. I'm also super-OK with you paying your way to get there since I don't particular want my taxes going into such nonsense. Please don't tell us you are a Neocon and want other people or their kids to die for your access to cheaper oil resources. That would be a shame, Stan, a real shame...

    But the sort of lunacy we have in the Middle East where we spend hundreds of billions and get nothing in return must end.
     
    Oh c'mon now - we get a big thank you card on Hannukah every year from Israel saying what a great job we're doing. You don't want them to stop sending us cards, do you? They're going to stop sayin' we're best buds and look elsewhere for a new pal - we would be heartbroken...that would also be a shame...a real shame...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhlBXHp2sY8

    Peace.
  50. @Cloudbuster
    I've experienced that. We've had some pretty rough times in the family the past few months and with my Dad dead these 19 years now, I have literally nobody to talk with about it, nobody with whom I can let down my guard. I can't show weakness to my wife or daughters, because they just fall apart if I do. My remaining son can take it, but he isn't a father yet (one on the way, though) so he's never been in this position and it doesn't feel right to vent to your own kid.

    I've got a couple male friends I probably could talk to, but it also doesn't feel right. They don't want to deal with my crap, regardless of what they say. Man, when I was younger, I never asked my Dad's advice about anything, but now that he's gone, I wish to be able to talk to him all the time.

    Mistake No.1 on Internet is “get personal”.

    You said yourself

    …I have literally nobody to talk with about it, nobody with whom I can let down my guard.

    If you can’t do it with people face to face, what can you expect on Internet?
    Take a look at example on this very site when the author mentioned his “Hibernation” for personal reasons.
    Sociopaths and psychopaths can’t have enough of it online…..

    Having said all that above, a bit of unsolicited opinion from an older man with plenty of life experience (or so I say). Old school, too, to boot,so make of that what you will.

    You NEVER let your guard online. Ever.

    I’ve got a couple male friends I probably could talk to, but it also doesn’t feel right. They don’t want to deal with my crap, regardless of what they say.

    Maybe you could reassess your “friends”.
    An example: when a man is back from action which was emotionally HARD, he, of course, can’t talk about that with his family. He can’t about it with civilians. What he can do is talk with his mates who’ve “been there”. That’s why, some say, true friendship comes only from true shared hardship.
    But, here is the secret, of sort. RINGS. As operating system/processor rings. Even with a best friend who shared a trench with you …you can’t talk about things in the Ring One. Only in Ring Two.
    With your woman, only about things from Ring Three up.
    Ring One is only for you. YOU deal with that, or not. That’s what a man is all about…I guess…hehe..
    Makes sense?

    As for:

    Man, when I was younger, I never asked my Dad’s advice about anything, but now that he’s gone, I wish to be able to talk to him all the time.

    You’ll get at age when you are older than your Dad was when he passed away, probably.
    Then, you’ll realize that there is actually nobody, really, to ask an advice from. The answers are in the Ring One.
    Makes sense ?

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    With your woman, only about things from Ring Three up.
     
    I feel sad for you.

    I share everything with my wife. Everything. She and I have only joint bank accounts. We own everything together. We raise and educate our children together. We have complete and open access to each other's phones, tablets, and computers. We can and do finish each other's sentences. She is my best friend and soulmate.

    A partnership of love such as ours used to be much more commonplace. It's too bad some people do not experience it and do not understand the beauty of male-female union and complementarity.

    Do not lose hope or be cynical and give in to despair. It is possible.
  51. @Tyrion 2
    My experience is different. All the women in my life share all of their pain with me and I have to feel it. But if I ever share anything back, they are clearly repulsed and try their best to shut down the conversation. They are nonetheless good and compassionate people.

    Men have to be rational egotists or else they get abused by women.

    #Toxicmasculinity is what women want.

    Men have to be rational egotists or else they get abused by women.

    Women can say the same.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    I overstated my case for various sunny Sunday afternoon reasons. Regardless, of course adults of both sexes gain by maintaining reasonable boundaries at points, but it is also true that those boundaries are "gendered". And the reason they are "gendered" is largely to do with the different sexes' expectations/desires of each other.

    This means that "the manosphere" are not being hypocrites in the way you claimed. Instead, they are just giving women what women want while also clearly stating the naturally different things that they themselves want.

    That's not to say that they're always right. They certainly aren't. But the key to understanding that entire "movement" is that its justification primarily comes from its efficacy. It grew out of the real life learned lessons of what was basically a self help movement.

  52. @Stan d Mute
    I’m skeptical that it’s at all possible to Make America Great Again as other commenters have more eloquently written. But your additional itemized list would be about the best shot. You could shorten your list however to:

    4. Elimination of the Federal Reserve.
    6. Reestablishment of freedom of association.
    9. Full stop on the entirety of foreign aid.
    10. A return to Federalism.
     
    A return to hard currency eliminates a huge bulk of the shenanigans, without funny money to pay for all the stupidity, the stupidity rightfully starves to death. Freedom of Association and the restoration of the 10th Amendment likewise solve a lot of problems. Let the States have welfare or not, restrict population (on any basis) or not, condone abortion or not, in a competitive environment. Let the winners enjoy the fruits of their victory and the losers suffer the consequences of their failures. This would also lead to some restoration of the self-sufficiency we have utterly lost on an individual level. I hesitated to keep your foreign aid above since I think that too should fall under the 10th like federal welfare would. In any case, ending foreign aid would entail ending foreign troop deployments. And one item that should be added is the resurrection of the only true purpose of foreign wars - conquest & spoils. I’m okay with sending troops to Venezuela if their purpose is to steal the country’s vast oil reserves and turn them into a vassal state under our dominion. But the sort of lunacy we have in the Middle East where we spend hundreds of billions and get nothing in return must end.

    I’m okay with sending troops to Venezuela if their purpose is to steal the country’s vast oil reserves and turn them into a vassal state under our dominion.

    I oppose the action in Venezuela on principled nationalist grounds. The lastthing we need is more White guilt that can be exploited for the benefit of non-Whites.

    “You’re only rich because you stole our resources. Let us in!”

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    Used to be we'd treat the indios and mixed as savages and laugh at them.

    We need to take up that attitude, make it part of our ethos once more.
  53. @Stan d Mute
    I’m skeptical that it’s at all possible to Make America Great Again as other commenters have more eloquently written. But your additional itemized list would be about the best shot. You could shorten your list however to:

    4. Elimination of the Federal Reserve.
    6. Reestablishment of freedom of association.
    9. Full stop on the entirety of foreign aid.
    10. A return to Federalism.
     
    A return to hard currency eliminates a huge bulk of the shenanigans, without funny money to pay for all the stupidity, the stupidity rightfully starves to death. Freedom of Association and the restoration of the 10th Amendment likewise solve a lot of problems. Let the States have welfare or not, restrict population (on any basis) or not, condone abortion or not, in a competitive environment. Let the winners enjoy the fruits of their victory and the losers suffer the consequences of their failures. This would also lead to some restoration of the self-sufficiency we have utterly lost on an individual level. I hesitated to keep your foreign aid above since I think that too should fall under the 10th like federal welfare would. In any case, ending foreign aid would entail ending foreign troop deployments. And one item that should be added is the resurrection of the only true purpose of foreign wars - conquest & spoils. I’m okay with sending troops to Venezuela if their purpose is to steal the country’s vast oil reserves and turn them into a vassal state under our dominion. But the sort of lunacy we have in the Middle East where we spend hundreds of billions and get nothing in return must end.

    “You could shorten your list however to:”

    That’s true. Those things in effect would result in some of the other points by design.

    “Let the States have welfare or not, restrict population (on any basis) or not, condone abortion or not, in a competitive environment. Let the winners enjoy the fruits of their victory and the losers suffer the consequences of their failures.”

    I agree with this – but an unforeseen consequence that must be addressed is that of foolish whites voting in the very policies that turned their communities into Baltimore, and then fleeing those communities only to again vote for the same policies that turned their latest destination into another Baltimore. Especially if the NQ isn’t going to be addressed directly.

    Limitations on new resident voting would have to be applied, not only to prevent the above but also to incentivize people to apply forethought to their voting habits, in terms of investing in the long term future of their communities. For example, if I’m a left-ish do-gooding egalitarian gape faced neck bearded hipster from the north side of Chicago who loves all people equally because all people are equal, but now I have a newborn and I’m not so sure I want him/her to attend a Chicago public school with all of those angry African Americans who have every right to hate whitey because of how hard we work to try to seem not racist, maybe I’ll move to Boise, Idaho with anther 10 or 15 thousand families who think just like me and obliviously start voting for the same policies that resulted in the situation that had me leaving Chicago to begin with. I’m open to anything from a 10 year wait and up on newly interstate relocated citizens. We can also increase the minimum voting age to 25.

    I’m also not against changing the voting parameters to include only married hetero couples with children. One vote per intact family. Everybody attends the polling place in order to cast a ballot.

    Voting is mistakenly defined as a right. It is a privilege that should not be taken for granted.

    “I’m skeptical that it’s at all possible to Make America Great Again as other commenters have more eloquently written.”

    As am I. But it’s a dreary Sunday afternoon and there’s little else to do but have a cup of coffee and pontificate about such things.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
    If States have rights not explicitly granted to FedGov in the Constitution, as the 10th says, why would Idaho have to accept any former Chicongoan? You trashed your home and now want to move into my home? That’s funny! Beat it.

    The Founders understood the dangers of universalism, far better than the majority do today. A retard can vote. Literally. I know someone with Down Syndrome who can neither read nor write, cannot do any math whatsoever, functions as a 2-3 year old toddler, yet is a registered voter (and I suspect he has voted - as a Democrat). Increasing the voting age is a problem if we are to send 18 year olds to war. I think war (foreign), in particular, should have special voting allowed only to those who will be sent and their parents. But for regular voting the sensible test is whether one produces more in tax remittances than one collects in government benefits of any type. No more voting for one’s own paycheck or handouts. Further restriction to those actually invested in the future, ie parents, also makes sense. He who pays the bills decides. No more leeches voting, no more retards, no more dementia afflicted geezers.

    A dream, no more, when half the nation already drinks more from the public trough than it pours into it.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    A good abstract conversation-starter on the subject of voting is, "What is more important to you: The ability to vote or having good government?"
  54. Moral eugenics. Consider that:

    (a) There is plenty of dysgenic behavior within whites, and I would be pessimistic with the direction of the US even without immigration.
    (b) Immigration and race-mixing is not, by itself, an evil. It is dysgenic when the incoming population has more undesirable traits AND there is insufficient selection pressure to filter those traits out.

    A steadily improving, racially-mixed society might have unrest and race tension, but if it’s wealthy enough, could probably survive that through prosperity alone.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    (b) Immigration and race-mixing is not, by itself, an evil. It is dysgenic when the incoming population has more undesirable traits AND there is insufficient selection pressure to filter those traits out.
     
    😲
    , @Twinkie

    A steadily improving, racially-mixed society might have unrest and race tension, but if it’s wealthy enough, could probably survive that through prosperity alone.
     
    Prosperity is nice, but virtue (genuine virtue, not the signaling kind in post-modern America) is better.
  55. The following three things strike me as necessary (if not necessarily sufficient):

    1) A moratorium on immigration lasting at least a generation
    2) The repatriation of non-citizens unauthorized to be in the country
    3) The return of native fertility to at least replacement level

    If these things do not happen–and it seems unlikely that any, let alone all, of them will–political dissolution is probably inevitable.

    AE is pretty much on the money with this assessment. The trouble is, even though immigration as a stand issue alone can destroy the union, there are other stand alone issues – present or imminent – that can do the same thing, pushing disunion from the “possibly” category firmly into the “definitely” category.

    Basic ignorance about the electoral process in the US, and the misapplication of democratic principles that go along with it, is on the rise. As the orthodox left abandons logos for pathos, their blind rage against the “unfair” electoral college system is migrating from the executive branch to the legislative branch. The church of social justice is starting to see great evil in places like Maine, Wyoming and North Dakota because their equal status with New York and Florida in the Senate is just another manifestation of white supremacy.

    The radical left’s agenda on this issue hasn’t come to fruition yet, but it’s waiting in the wings, and when states like Vermont and Idaho see no real benefit to remaining in the union, they will leave, either through some alliance or independently. The left wants the “United STATE of America,” and they believe – in typical fashion – that the populace (even in places like Vermont and Idaho) can be browbeaten, shamed or indoctrinated into agreeing with them, but – in typical fashion – they are wrong (tragically so.)

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  56. @megabar
    Moral eugenics. Consider that:

    (a) There is plenty of dysgenic behavior within whites, and I would be pessimistic with the direction of the US even without immigration.
    (b) Immigration and race-mixing is not, by itself, an evil. It is dysgenic when the incoming population has more undesirable traits AND there is insufficient selection pressure to filter those traits out.

    A steadily improving, racially-mixed society might have unrest and race tension, but if it's wealthy enough, could probably survive that through prosperity alone.

    (b) Immigration and race-mixing is not, by itself, an evil. It is dysgenic when the incoming population has more undesirable traits AND there is insufficient selection pressure to filter those traits out.

    😲

    • Replies: @iffen
    It is dysgenic

    Eugenics should be about #98 on a list of the 100 most pressing issues and problems. There are at least 50-60 items that are going to take us out before we succumb to dysgenics. Anyway, some of our ancestors were dumb as rocks, just like some of us are now, but we got to this point. We just need to figure out a way forward.

    , @Twinkie

    😲
     
    You disagree with "Immigration and race-mixing is not, by itself, an evil"? You think they are fundamentally evil things?

    To me both are neither evil nor good in and of themselves. As with many things, scale and type are what matter. When you have a small amount of high-assimilation immigrants and/or racial intermarriage of high-quality peoples, there is little if any problem to the nation as a whole, and maybe even some benefits. The problems arise when the numbers become too high and alter the culture of the society quickly.

    I am with Mr. Derbyshire on this one. To borrow his words, both immigration and intermarriage are like salt in the soup. A moderate amount improves the taste of the soup, but too much ruins it.
  57. I know that not everyone here is a Catholic

    But if you, the person reading this, are a Catholic, then this is for you. There is one thing that can and must be done to save our Church, our nation, and our people:

    PRAY THE ROSARY

    Ethnos needs logos

    • Agree: Twinkie
    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    Despite the pleasing aesthetics, it has been easy to drift away from Catholicism, and Christ worship in general. I entertained the notion of Odinism for a while, but then realized I wanted a spiritual system that is not so heavily connected to race. Now Buddhism is in the thought stream, but I find the chanting disconcerting. But I think we can all agree that the religion of Atheism is bleak, devoid of hope and imagination.
    , @Anon
    Your right. And we already know we are on the Winner's side. Salve, Reina y madre.
  58. @Rosie

    (b) Immigration and race-mixing is not, by itself, an evil. It is dysgenic when the incoming population has more undesirable traits AND there is insufficient selection pressure to filter those traits out.
     
    😲

    It is dysgenic

    Eugenics should be about #98 on a list of the 100 most pressing issues and problems. There are at least 50-60 items that are going to take us out before we succumb to dysgenics. Anyway, some of our ancestors were dumb as rocks, just like some of us are now, but we got to this point. We just need to figure out a way forward.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  59. @Audacious Epigone
    I doubt that horror show is necessary to increase fertility--and barring civilizational collapse, it will never happen.

    We're 50 years into fornication and procreation being nearly entirely separated (with things like IVF, that separation is complete). The ability to fornicate is no longer what is being selected for. The desire for procreation is. All human traits are heritable. The desire to nurture and raise children is surely not an exception. We're in the process of selecting for breeders now.

    We are also selecting for impulsive low IQ people who are too irresponsible to use contraception, while being supported by the welfare system.

  60. anon[177] • Disclaimer says:
    @Audacious Epigone
    Indeed. Better for everyone if the landing is a soft one rather than a hard crash into the side of a mountain.

    The Left will never be satisfied with separate countries. They have a messianic mission to bring sacred black bodies and female penises to every corner of the globe. If the mid-west separates then California and the Left Nation will insist on open borders and more world immigration to the mid-west. They will not tolerate a majority gentile nation anywhere. Nebraska will be sanctioned like South Africa.
    Any break up of the USA will be violent in the extreme.

    • Replies: @peterAUS

    If the mid-west separates then California and the Left Nation will insist on open borders and more world immigration to the mid-west. They will not tolerate a majority gentile nation anywhere. Nebraska will be sanctioned like South Africa.
     
    Insist they can do. Wouldn't know about the"sanctioned" part, though.
    Not easy to sanction a nuclear superpower. Caveat: that entity must have an access to Pacific (NOT landlocked).
    So, then, you have, a least, say......several boomers and attack (nuclear) submarines, the works. Just that.
    Nahh, I just don't see anybody sanctioning that country (Mid-West with access to Pacific). Hehe..actually, could see that country sanctioning the rest.

    Any break up of the USA will be violent in the extreme.
     
    The Question.
    Nobody knows.
    A thought: if those dumb Russkies (relax, towarsich....) could split USSR without major parts getting violent, why much smarter Anglos couldn't do even better? Skirmish here and there, Chechnya type, not a problem in a big scheme of things.
    , @iffen
    Nebraska will be sanctioned like South Africa.


    Nebraska deserves it for sending Ben Sasse to the US Senate.
    , @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    As long as the UN and Globalist Europe exists, this will not happen. They will literally drop a nuke on the helpless Whiteopia. They DO NOT CARE, and given the excuse to kill you, they will.
  61. @anon
    The Left will never be satisfied with separate countries. They have a messianic mission to bring sacred black bodies and female penises to every corner of the globe. If the mid-west separates then California and the Left Nation will insist on open borders and more world immigration to the mid-west. They will not tolerate a majority gentile nation anywhere. Nebraska will be sanctioned like South Africa.
    Any break up of the USA will be violent in the extreme.

    If the mid-west separates then California and the Left Nation will insist on open borders and more world immigration to the mid-west. They will not tolerate a majority gentile nation anywhere. Nebraska will be sanctioned like South Africa.

    Insist they can do. Wouldn’t know about the”sanctioned” part, though.
    Not easy to sanction a nuclear superpower. Caveat: that entity must have an access to Pacific (NOT landlocked).
    So, then, you have, a least, say……several boomers and attack (nuclear) submarines, the works. Just that.
    Nahh, I just don’t see anybody sanctioning that country (Mid-West with access to Pacific). Hehe..actually, could see that country sanctioning the rest.

    Any break up of the USA will be violent in the extreme.

    The Question.
    Nobody knows.
    A thought: if those dumb Russkies (relax, towarsich….) could split USSR without major parts getting violent, why much smarter Anglos couldn’t do even better? Skirmish here and there, Chechnya type, not a problem in a big scheme of things.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    It may be dangerously naive, but I think violence in dissolution is unlikely, especially if it follows a currency crisis--something that is coming and that, for my money, is the most likely catalyst for said dissolution. Yeah, messianic progressivism could be an issue down the road, but in the shorter term, Blueistan will be thrilled to be able to have total political dominance within the confines of Blueistan.
  62. @anon
    The Left will never be satisfied with separate countries. They have a messianic mission to bring sacred black bodies and female penises to every corner of the globe. If the mid-west separates then California and the Left Nation will insist on open borders and more world immigration to the mid-west. They will not tolerate a majority gentile nation anywhere. Nebraska will be sanctioned like South Africa.
    Any break up of the USA will be violent in the extreme.

    Nebraska will be sanctioned like South Africa.

    Nebraska deserves it for sending Ben Sasse to the US Senate.

    • LOL: Talha
  63. ” … political dissolution is probably inevitable.”

    It won’t be the POC hordes who’ll agitate for political divorce. Despite the constant cries of victimhood, they’ve got it good here. It’ll be a white minority, that is, a minority faction within the Euro American population, that’ll be the catalyst for separation. But I don’t think such a thing is possible. The United States is going to degenerate into a society with a social credit regime for the plebeians, coupled with external and internal monitoring, with freedom, both in movement and thought, reserved for the top levels of the pyramid. Or maybe it’ll be the Brave New World of a population narcotized by chemicals and illusions as envisioned by Aldous Huxley. Maybe the future USA will be a combination of both. Either way, the future is grim. Especially for born evil Whitey.

    • Replies: @peterAUS

    The United States is going to degenerate into a society with a social credit regime for the plebeians, coupled with external and internal monitoring, with freedom, both in movement and thought, reserved for the top levels of the pyramid. Or maybe it’ll be the Brave New World of a population narcotized by chemicals and illusions as envisioned by Aldous Huxley. Maybe the future USA will be a combination of both. Either way, the future is grim. Especially for born evil Whitey.
     
    As it looks right now.........probably 70 % probability, or around.
    The "self-determination" option, 30 %, tops.
    Not good odds.

    And, yet......we all comment here, still. Not important of course. What is important, the core America does have that ability to pleasantly surprise.

    So....hehe....we watch and wait.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    It's a depressing thing to dwell on, but there is plenty of evidence now--lower sex rates for younger people on account of video game cocooning and porn, drug use, millennials living at home into their thirties, etc. What happens when sexbots really get going? Brave New World is closer to the dystopian reality of the future than 1984 is, I think.
  64. @neutral
    The USA has been an anti white regime for many decades now, anti white not just against its own white population but also globally, this being the case if you are pro white then you should support the demise of the USA

    ” … if you are pro white then you should support the demise of the USA.”

    Unfortunately, this is true.

  65. @Franz Liszt von Raiding
    Legalizing plural marriage would go a long way to dramatically increase white replacement rates as they are the only group (Mormons) to have truly mastered the practice. How dare government stand in the way of adult free persons desire (to be a sister-wife) in this case? How wonderful for America to gain plenty of stolid, self-motivated, employed, nice as heck, law-abiding whites.

    I can’t handle more than one woman. Plus, Mormonism is completely goofy. It makes Christianity seem logical.

  66. @SunBakedSuburb
    " ... political dissolution is probably inevitable."

    It won't be the POC hordes who'll agitate for political divorce. Despite the constant cries of victimhood, they've got it good here. It'll be a white minority, that is, a minority faction within the Euro American population, that'll be the catalyst for separation. But I don't think such a thing is possible. The United States is going to degenerate into a society with a social credit regime for the plebeians, coupled with external and internal monitoring, with freedom, both in movement and thought, reserved for the top levels of the pyramid. Or maybe it'll be the Brave New World of a population narcotized by chemicals and illusions as envisioned by Aldous Huxley. Maybe the future USA will be a combination of both. Either way, the future is grim. Especially for born evil Whitey.

    The United States is going to degenerate into a society with a social credit regime for the plebeians, coupled with external and internal monitoring, with freedom, both in movement and thought, reserved for the top levels of the pyramid. Or maybe it’ll be the Brave New World of a population narcotized by chemicals and illusions as envisioned by Aldous Huxley. Maybe the future USA will be a combination of both. Either way, the future is grim. Especially for born evil Whitey.

    As it looks right now………probably 70 % probability, or around.
    The “self-determination” option, 30 %, tops.
    Not good odds.

    And, yet……we all comment here, still. Not important of course. What is important, the core America does have that ability to pleasantly surprise.

    So….hehe….we watch and wait.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    I admire your optimism.
  67. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    I know that not everyone here is a Catholic

    But if you, the person reading this, are a Catholic, then this is for you. There is one thing that can and must be done to save our Church, our nation, and our people:

    PRAY THE ROSARY

    Ethnos needs logos

    Despite the pleasing aesthetics, it has been easy to drift away from Catholicism, and Christ worship in general. I entertained the notion of Odinism for a while, but then realized I wanted a spiritual system that is not so heavily connected to race. Now Buddhism is in the thought stream, but I find the chanting disconcerting. But I think we can all agree that the religion of Atheism is bleak, devoid of hope and imagination.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Now Buddhism is in the thought stream, but I find the chanting disconcerting. But I think we can all agree that the religion of Atheism is bleak, devoid of hope and imagination.
     
    I had a long love affair with Buddhism, and still some fondness for it now, but I assure you, Buddhism is, at its core, every bit as bleak and nihilistic as atheism. I have come to the following conclusion, which I’m not sure I’ve shared here before:

    Buddhism is compelling at first blush, and absurd on further reflection; Christianity is absurd at first blush, and compelling on further reflection.
  68. @peterAUS

    The United States is going to degenerate into a society with a social credit regime for the plebeians, coupled with external and internal monitoring, with freedom, both in movement and thought, reserved for the top levels of the pyramid. Or maybe it’ll be the Brave New World of a population narcotized by chemicals and illusions as envisioned by Aldous Huxley. Maybe the future USA will be a combination of both. Either way, the future is grim. Especially for born evil Whitey.
     
    As it looks right now.........probably 70 % probability, or around.
    The "self-determination" option, 30 %, tops.
    Not good odds.

    And, yet......we all comment here, still. Not important of course. What is important, the core America does have that ability to pleasantly surprise.

    So....hehe....we watch and wait.

    I admire your optimism.

  69. Why would the occupiers of an occupied country allow dissolution? Whether or not you believe in ZOG, Moldbug/Moldberg has proved that the USA is occupied/ruled by USG (US Government). We’re the favorite, original colony of USG, which first conquered Massachusetts (1781), then the USA (1865) and then much of the World (1945). By the way, it seems that USG wins major wars on an eighty-year loop, so watch out Eurasia (2025).

    If you pore over the racial dot map, you will see that in many cases Whites are moving toward blacks (Southeast US), not away. As long as a city is majority non-black (Nashville rather than Memphis), Whites can find places that they actively choose to move into, in White neighborhoods, in Whiter suburbs and Whitest exurbs.

    https://demographics.virginia.edu/DotMap/

    The prospect of dissolution is not there.

  70. @Michael S
    You guys realize that white progressives aren't actually anti-white, right? Rhetorically, they are, but not literally. They're fine with other white progressives. When they talk about "whiteness" or "white supremacy" they're not talking about all whites, just badwhites - practicing Christians, European traditionalists, fiscal conservatives, "nationalists", basically anyone who's a potential threat to progressive global governance.

    America hasn't been an anti-white country for decades. It has, however, been a Progressive imperialist country since the early 20th century, and even the 19th depending on one's interpretation of historical facts.

    Everybody wants to believe that there's some brief set of policies that can "save" America, usually revolving around either demographics (immigration/fertility) or economics (welfare state, fiat currency, etc.). Sure, those are important issues. Do you think they just materialized out of thin air? The Progressive parasite has been around much longer than those issues, and just like any chronic disease, it will keep flaring up unless it is completely eliminated. All you get with these policy prescriptions is a bit of temporary relief.

    The Shortest-Way With The Dissenters

  71. @SunBakedSuburb
    Despite the pleasing aesthetics, it has been easy to drift away from Catholicism, and Christ worship in general. I entertained the notion of Odinism for a while, but then realized I wanted a spiritual system that is not so heavily connected to race. Now Buddhism is in the thought stream, but I find the chanting disconcerting. But I think we can all agree that the religion of Atheism is bleak, devoid of hope and imagination.

    Now Buddhism is in the thought stream, but I find the chanting disconcerting. But I think we can all agree that the religion of Atheism is bleak, devoid of hope and imagination.

    I had a long love affair with Buddhism, and still some fondness for it now, but I assure you, Buddhism is, at its core, every bit as bleak and nihilistic as atheism. I have come to the following conclusion, which I’m not sure I’ve shared here before:

    Buddhism is compelling at first blush, and absurd on further reflection; Christianity is absurd at first blush, and compelling on further reflection.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    Interesting, thoughtful comment. Thanks.
  72. @Tyrion 2
    My experience is different. All the women in my life share all of their pain with me and I have to feel it. But if I ever share anything back, they are clearly repulsed and try their best to shut down the conversation. They are nonetheless good and compassionate people.

    Men have to be rational egotists or else they get abused by women.

    #Toxicmasculinity is what women want.

    Wow, obviously over-stated my case a bit…I suppose it is better than calling Valerie Jarrett a terrorist or whatever.

  73. @MikeatMikedotMike
    "You could shorten your list however to:"

    That's true. Those things in effect would result in some of the other points by design.

    "Let the States have welfare or not, restrict population (on any basis) or not, condone abortion or not, in a competitive environment. Let the winners enjoy the fruits of their victory and the losers suffer the consequences of their failures."

    I agree with this - but an unforeseen consequence that must be addressed is that of foolish whites voting in the very policies that turned their communities into Baltimore, and then fleeing those communities only to again vote for the same policies that turned their latest destination into another Baltimore. Especially if the NQ isn't going to be addressed directly.

    Limitations on new resident voting would have to be applied, not only to prevent the above but also to incentivize people to apply forethought to their voting habits, in terms of investing in the long term future of their communities. For example, if I'm a left-ish do-gooding egalitarian gape faced neck bearded hipster from the north side of Chicago who loves all people equally because all people are equal, but now I have a newborn and I'm not so sure I want him/her to attend a Chicago public school with all of those angry African Americans who have every right to hate whitey because of how hard we work to try to seem not racist, maybe I'll move to Boise, Idaho with anther 10 or 15 thousand families who think just like me and obliviously start voting for the same policies that resulted in the situation that had me leaving Chicago to begin with. I'm open to anything from a 10 year wait and up on newly interstate relocated citizens. We can also increase the minimum voting age to 25.

    I'm also not against changing the voting parameters to include only married hetero couples with children. One vote per intact family. Everybody attends the polling place in order to cast a ballot.

    Voting is mistakenly defined as a right. It is a privilege that should not be taken for granted.

    "I’m skeptical that it’s at all possible to Make America Great Again as other commenters have more eloquently written."

    As am I. But it's a dreary Sunday afternoon and there's little else to do but have a cup of coffee and pontificate about such things.

    If States have rights not explicitly granted to FedGov in the Constitution, as the 10th says, why would Idaho have to accept any former Chicongoan? You trashed your home and now want to move into my home? That’s funny! Beat it.

    The Founders understood the dangers of universalism, far better than the majority do today. A retard can vote. Literally. I know someone with Down Syndrome who can neither read nor write, cannot do any math whatsoever, functions as a 2-3 year old toddler, yet is a registered voter (and I suspect he has voted – as a Democrat). Increasing the voting age is a problem if we are to send 18 year olds to war. I think war (foreign), in particular, should have special voting allowed only to those who will be sent and their parents. But for regular voting the sensible test is whether one produces more in tax remittances than one collects in government benefits of any type. No more voting for one’s own paycheck or handouts. Further restriction to those actually invested in the future, ie parents, also makes sense. He who pays the bills decides. No more leeches voting, no more retards, no more dementia afflicted geezers.

    A dream, no more, when half the nation already drinks more from the public trough than it pours into it.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Restricting voting to net taxpayers who are married with children would be eminently sensible. It has a snowball's chance in hell of happening, of course. The electoral ratchet only moves in one direction--towards more and more suffrage (non-citizens, felons, etc).
  74. @Rosie

    Men have to be rational egotists or else they get abused by women.
     
    Women can say the same.

    I overstated my case for various sunny Sunday afternoon reasons. Regardless, of course adults of both sexes gain by maintaining reasonable boundaries at points, but it is also true that those boundaries are “gendered”. And the reason they are “gendered” is largely to do with the different sexes’ expectations/desires of each other.

    This means that “the manosphere” are not being hypocrites in the way you claimed. Instead, they are just giving women what women want while also clearly stating the naturally different things that they themselves want.

    That’s not to say that they’re always right. They certainly aren’t. But the key to understanding that entire “movement” is that its justification primarily comes from its efficacy. It grew out of the real life learned lessons of what was basically a self help movement.

  75. That’s not to say that they’re always right. They certainly aren’t. But the key to understanding that entire “movement” is that its justification primarily comes from its efficacy. It grew out of the real life learned lessons of what was basically a self help movement.

    This is where you are wrong IMO. Manosphere tactics of mate humiliation/derogation work on men as well as women. Does that mean men actually like being humiliated? No, it doesn’t.

    All of this has been known since forever. The manosphere is not on to any new scoop about women. They’re just assholes.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    Here is an honest article by a man acknowledging the Principle of Least Interest.

    https://www.elitedaily.com/dating/person-cares-less-always-power-relationship/1063660

    Again, all of this has been known for sometime.
  76. @Rosie

    The idea of artificial wombs scares me, but stopping women from having to suffer 9 months of pregnancy would surely increase the number of children they choose to have.
     
    Solutions that focus on women presume that it is primarily women who want to limit fertility. There’s no evidence for this claim. From what I hear, some of the solutions on offer in Europe suffer from the same problem.

    Maternity pay for 5 years after birth would also surely do it, but that would be extremely expensive.
     
    This a better stain because it rewards men, albeit more indirectly, as well as women.

    Solutions that focus on women presume that it is primarily women who want to limit fertility.

    Women bear most of the burden. Easing that can only help!

    I also was thinking more of how to nudge couples with 2 or 3 to have some more, rather than how to tie up perennial singletons. It seems like the easier first step.

  77. This is the defamation that we get in our homeland

    Mr. Ahmad would surely tell you about why he hates colonialism and imperialism, and he’d tell you this without a hint of irony.

    The next reply is funny

    Sen. McConnell’s wife is Chinese

  78. @Rosie

    That’s not to say that they’re always right. They certainly aren’t. But the key to understanding that entire “movement” is that its justification primarily comes from its efficacy. It grew out of the real life learned lessons of what was basically a self help movement.
     
    This is where you are wrong IMO. Manosphere tactics of mate humiliation/derogation work on men as well as women. Does that mean men actually like being humiliated? No, it doesn’t.

    All of this has been known since forever. The manosphere is not on to any new scoop about women. They’re just assholes.

    Here is an honest article by a man acknowledging the Principle of Least Interest.

    https://www.elitedaily.com/dating/person-cares-less-always-power-relationship/1063660

    Again, all of this has been known for sometime.

  79. @bob sykes
    Why is your regular blog closed to the general public, but this one is open?

    This is where the discussion is! The old blog is in archival status now.

  80. Those who stuff the ballot box with people are guilty of their future genocide.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  81. @Audacious Epigone
    Indeed. Better for everyone if the landing is a soft one rather than a hard crash into the side of a mountain.

    1) A moratorium on immigration lasting at least a generation
    2) The repatriation of non-citizens unauthorized to be in the country
    3) The return of native fertility to at least replacement level

    Excellently concise. But very difficult to achieve. People generally tend to think in policy terms, i.e. if we could just alter tax policies, pass anti-immigration laws, etc. In reality, those are outcomes of cultural changes rather than drivers of the latter.

    In my view, what needs to happen is a major cultural paradigm shift, sort of a reverse of what happened with homosexual “marriage.” But that is exceptionally difficult to achieve when the media dominance of the Left is almost total.

    There are two solutions to that problem, in my estimation. First, people in the patriotic Right need to stop blabbing only words on the Internet and actually practice what they preach. Get married, have children, positively affect those around them (and convert them where possible) – not by haranguing them, but by setting good examples and being worthy of emulation, and set up parallel institutions where possible (religion, homeschooling, civic/charitable groups, etc.).

    Second, philosophically/ideologically engage in insurgency. Since the patriotic Right does not have the megaphone, the only viable path to convince the majority of people in the country is to goad the Left into becoming ever so monstrous that the ordinary people can see it clearly. Don’t let the Left engage in incrementalism and slowly boil all of us until it’s too late, but encourage them judiciously into acting hastily and wildly. People tend to reject swift changes that are at odds with their natural instincts, but tend to fall for them when the changes are gradual. In practical terms, this means we should goad more Jusse Smollett-type fake victim-mongering while making sure our political enemies are represented by the black/transgender supremacists. And so on.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  82. @Audacious Epigone
    I doubt that horror show is necessary to increase fertility--and barring civilizational collapse, it will never happen.

    We're 50 years into fornication and procreation being nearly entirely separated (with things like IVF, that separation is complete). The ability to fornicate is no longer what is being selected for. The desire for procreation is. All human traits are heritable. The desire to nurture and raise children is surely not an exception. We're in the process of selecting for breeders now.

    I doubt that horror show is necessary to increase fertility–and barring civilizational collapse, it will never happen.

    I have to say, I am with Rosie on this one. Why are some people on the fringes of the Right so quick to throw women under the bus?

    Do they not have wives, mothers, daughters, and sisters? Why this constant desire to enslave them?

    It is true our mainstream culture is sick right now, but most women have natural instincts to be mothers and wives. You can see that in voting patterns (married = more Republican-voting while single = less so and then even the married when divorced vote like singles).

    Women can be equal in human dignity and legal rights, and still be traditional wives and mothers.

    Suggesting slavery of women is indeed a horror show and, frankly, is counterproductive and would only prove what our enemies say about us patriarchal types.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  83. @Rosie

    (b) Immigration and race-mixing is not, by itself, an evil. It is dysgenic when the incoming population has more undesirable traits AND there is insufficient selection pressure to filter those traits out.
     
    😲

    😲

    You disagree with “Immigration and race-mixing is not, by itself, an evil”? You think they are fundamentally evil things?

    To me both are neither evil nor good in and of themselves. As with many things, scale and type are what matter. When you have a small amount of high-assimilation immigrants and/or racial intermarriage of high-quality peoples, there is little if any problem to the nation as a whole, and maybe even some benefits. The problems arise when the numbers become too high and alter the culture of the society quickly.

    I am with Mr. Derbyshire on this one. To borrow his words, both immigration and intermarriage are like salt in the soup. A moderate amount improves the taste of the soup, but too much ruins it.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  84. @megabar
    Moral eugenics. Consider that:

    (a) There is plenty of dysgenic behavior within whites, and I would be pessimistic with the direction of the US even without immigration.
    (b) Immigration and race-mixing is not, by itself, an evil. It is dysgenic when the incoming population has more undesirable traits AND there is insufficient selection pressure to filter those traits out.

    A steadily improving, racially-mixed society might have unrest and race tension, but if it's wealthy enough, could probably survive that through prosperity alone.

    A steadily improving, racially-mixed society might have unrest and race tension, but if it’s wealthy enough, could probably survive that through prosperity alone.

    Prosperity is nice, but virtue (genuine virtue, not the signaling kind in post-modern America) is better.

  85. @peterAUS
    Mistake No.1 on Internet is "get personal".

    You said yourself

    ...I have literally nobody to talk with about it, nobody with whom I can let down my guard.
     
    If you can't do it with people face to face, what can you expect on Internet?
    Take a look at example on this very site when the author mentioned his "Hibernation" for personal reasons.
    Sociopaths and psychopaths can't have enough of it online.....

    Having said all that above, a bit of unsolicited opinion from an older man with plenty of life experience (or so I say). Old school, too, to boot,so make of that what you will.

    You NEVER let your guard online. Ever.

    I’ve got a couple male friends I probably could talk to, but it also doesn’t feel right. They don’t want to deal with my crap, regardless of what they say.
     
    Maybe you could reassess your "friends".
    An example: when a man is back from action which was emotionally HARD, he, of course, can't talk about that with his family. He can't about it with civilians. What he can do is talk with his mates who've "been there". That's why, some say, true friendship comes only from true shared hardship.
    But, here is the secret, of sort. RINGS. As operating system/processor rings. Even with a best friend who shared a trench with you ...you can't talk about things in the Ring One. Only in Ring Two.
    With your woman, only about things from Ring Three up.
    Ring One is only for you. YOU deal with that, or not. That's what a man is all about...I guess...hehe..
    Makes sense?

    As for:

    Man, when I was younger, I never asked my Dad’s advice about anything, but now that he’s gone, I wish to be able to talk to him all the time.
     
    You'll get at age when you are older than your Dad was when he passed away, probably.
    Then, you'll realize that there is actually nobody, really, to ask an advice from. The answers are in the Ring One.
    Makes sense ?

    With your woman, only about things from Ring Three up.

    I feel sad for you.

    I share everything with my wife. Everything. She and I have only joint bank accounts. We own everything together. We raise and educate our children together. We have complete and open access to each other’s phones, tablets, and computers. We can and do finish each other’s sentences. She is my best friend and soulmate.

    A partnership of love such as ours used to be much more commonplace. It’s too bad some people do not experience it and do not understand the beauty of male-female union and complementarity.

    Do not lose hope or be cynical and give in to despair. It is possible.

    • Troll: Tyrion 2
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    I feel sad for you.

    I share everything with my wife. Everything.
     
    Let me guess:
    You are nice, well adjusted, middle-class type. You know, the type who deplores violence etc.
    The last time you've been in a fight was in high school and got beaten. Nothing serious, of course.
    Don't own a firearm. Actually, don't like "guns". Never killed an animal by pulling a trigger.
    You like ball games. You find MMA, let alone Vale Tudo, deplorable.

    Never served in armed forces, police etc. of course.

    Last time you spoke with a veteran soldier, over drinks was.....never.
    Last time you spoke with a long serving cop, over drinks, was....never.

    That you've never been in firefight, under fire, firing back etc. is given.

    I can go on but you get the drift.

    Do not lose hope or be cynical and give in to despair. It is possible.
     
    Hahaha.......

    Tell you what: why don't you, as a nice guy, volunteer, and go to Sudan, or even Yemen, to help desperate people here? Do it for....say....6 months.
    Now, here is a clincher: if you are by chance, offered a gun, take it.

    And, when...OK, IF, you come back share that...ALL that, with your wife. Spill your soul, over morning coffee, for her.
    See how it goes.
  86. @Tyrion 2

    Progress is not a disease. It is a powerful cure, that will kill the patient if not dosed properly, rather like radiation to treat cancer
     
    Reminds me of the old joke about a man visiting his cancer doctor, who regrettably tells him that it is progressive.

    This is a bizarre line of reasoning. I call it the “radical fallacy,” that is, the idea that it is not possible to ameliorate the negatives consequences of a phenomenon, while preserving its salutary aspects, without eradicating it completely.
     
    Yes. Other ideas can be tried - but none are proven.

    The idea of artificial wombs scares me, but stopping women from having to suffer 9 months of pregnancy would surely increase the number of children they choose to have.

    Polygamy might also help, but that's not personally how I see the "good society". I imagine it isn't how most people see it either. (I did enjoy the first episode of the Netflix show "Sister Wives" - they seemed very well-adjusted.)

    Maternity pay for 5 years after birth would also surely do it, but that would be extremely expensive.

    There's plenty of other ideas but it does seem that women are dissatisfied with the majority of men and that this dissatisfaction, whether deserved or not, is a fundemental barrier to building a society with continuity.

    Polygamy only works if there’s a consistent way to kill off most of the male children born. Otherwise you end up with 20% of the men with 99% of the women, and 80% of the men with nothing to lose and no hope to gain.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    Is the percentage of men who are given a woman's loyalty in America that different from the percentage of men who are given it in a polygamous society?

    I'm not being absolutely serious of course, I'm just entertaining this idea, but I do find the parallels that exist quite interesting.
    , @Twinkie

    Polygamy only works if there’s a consistent way to kill off most of the male children born. Otherwise you end up with 20% of the men with 99% of the women, and 80% of the men with nothing to lose and no hope to gain.
     
    Another outlet for the consequences of polygamy is war. Spare males become cannon fodder for conquest - they either die in the process or end up with "a damsel or two" from the said conquest.

    Either way polygamy is destructive civilizationally in the long run.
  87. @Rosie

    The key is traditional male and female roles and severe discouragement of divorce.
     
    Indeed. Amish women have the advantage of a great deal of help and support from other traditional moms in the community. While modern, mainstream women are pumping breast milk at work, Amish women get to nurse and bond with their babies (and having meals delivered and getting help with housework from other moms and their teenage daughters in the area).

    Indeed. Amish women have the advantage of a great deal of help and support from other traditional moms in the community. While modern, mainstream women are pumping breast milk at work, Amish women get to nurse and bond with their babies (and having meals delivered and getting help with housework from other moms and their teenage daughters in the area).

    My wife and I have all that, and we are (traditional) Catholics. We eagerly babysit for each other in our religious community, there are meal trains galore for every birth, we look out for one another in every way possible. And we are all highly fertile! 🙂 (Well, not my wife and I anymore as we are past that age.)

    This is not specifically directed at you, but I often hear a lot of people who gripe about lack of similar support as the reason why they don’t have more children. I find this – frankly – whiney. Most people want, want, want for themselves, but think very little of contributing first. When they join a group, usually they think of what benefits they can obtain from it, rather than what they can give.

    It’s like “The Gift of the Magi.” If people only think of doing “their share,” the group is going to fail, because people are flawed and sometimes to fail to reach their goals. Soon enough you have people doing slightly less than their share, and there grow mutual resentment and dissolution.

    Successful mutual-support and -aid groups have to start with some strong commonality – usually religion that reinforces “we are in it together mentality” and mutual-trust. In that kind of environment, people can eagerly contribute and volunteer first – do MORE than their share – without fearing that they will be taken advantage of. In other words, in order to benefit from such support – other moms and their daughters who help – you have to be willing to contribute more to them than you might receive in return. Yes, it is exactly like any form of love – sacrifice without expectation of return. And when most members behave this way, it is beautiful.

    But it also means that those who enter it with the “net benefit” calculation are doomed to fail. And sadly, that’s how most people are these days.

    I still remember the first house my wife and I bought. People used to wave at each other at most and nothing else. The area was full of complaints by people that others (always others) were unfriendly. My wife and I thought about it and knocked on every door in our community and organized a block party. We ended up becoming close friends with several of the community members (two of them became godparents to one of my daughters, and my wife and I became godparents to a daughter of theirs). The block parties still go on in that community all these years later (we go back occasionally).

    Instead of whining and complaining, somebody has to roll up and sleeves and start building that social capital.

    • Replies: @Talha
    Good stuff, Twinkie. I agree with your mention of the various ways to build a movement that is independent from being reliant on government - absolutely necessary. That way people can know they have a community that can support them when things get rough and they have an incentive to support that community in turn. Also like your idea about reaching out to the neighbors to build those ground-level and close-by social bonds, very good idea.

    Also, (completely off topic, but if you are a Dune fan):
    https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-secret-history-of-dune/#

    (And Imam Shamyl [ra] was Naqshbandi - winning!!!)

    Peace
  88. @14WordsToFreedom
    Polygamy only works if there’s a consistent way to kill off most of the male children born. Otherwise you end up with 20% of the men with 99% of the women, and 80% of the men with nothing to lose and no hope to gain.

    Is the percentage of men who are given a woman’s loyalty in America that different from the percentage of men who are given it in a polygamous society?

    I’m not being absolutely serious of course, I’m just entertaining this idea, but I do find the parallels that exist quite interesting.

  89. @14WordsToFreedom
    Polygamy only works if there’s a consistent way to kill off most of the male children born. Otherwise you end up with 20% of the men with 99% of the women, and 80% of the men with nothing to lose and no hope to gain.

    Polygamy only works if there’s a consistent way to kill off most of the male children born. Otherwise you end up with 20% of the men with 99% of the women, and 80% of the men with nothing to lose and no hope to gain.

    Another outlet for the consequences of polygamy is war. Spare males become cannon fodder for conquest – they either die in the process or end up with “a damsel or two” from the said conquest.

    Either way polygamy is destructive civilizationally in the long run.

    • Agree: Rosie, Audacious Epigone
  90. @Twinkie

    Indeed. Amish women have the advantage of a great deal of help and support from other traditional moms in the community. While modern, mainstream women are pumping breast milk at work, Amish women get to nurse and bond with their babies (and having meals delivered and getting help with housework from other moms and their teenage daughters in the area).
     
    My wife and I have all that, and we are (traditional) Catholics. We eagerly babysit for each other in our religious community, there are meal trains galore for every birth, we look out for one another in every way possible. And we are all highly fertile! :) (Well, not my wife and I anymore as we are past that age.)

    This is not specifically directed at you, but I often hear a lot of people who gripe about lack of similar support as the reason why they don't have more children. I find this - frankly - whiney. Most people want, want, want for themselves, but think very little of contributing first. When they join a group, usually they think of what benefits they can obtain from it, rather than what they can give.

    It's like "The Gift of the Magi." If people only think of doing "their share," the group is going to fail, because people are flawed and sometimes to fail to reach their goals. Soon enough you have people doing slightly less than their share, and there grow mutual resentment and dissolution.

    Successful mutual-support and -aid groups have to start with some strong commonality - usually religion that reinforces "we are in it together mentality" and mutual-trust. In that kind of environment, people can eagerly contribute and volunteer first - do MORE than their share - without fearing that they will be taken advantage of. In other words, in order to benefit from such support - other moms and their daughters who help - you have to be willing to contribute more to them than you might receive in return. Yes, it is exactly like any form of love - sacrifice without expectation of return. And when most members behave this way, it is beautiful.

    But it also means that those who enter it with the "net benefit" calculation are doomed to fail. And sadly, that's how most people are these days.

    I still remember the first house my wife and I bought. People used to wave at each other at most and nothing else. The area was full of complaints by people that others (always others) were unfriendly. My wife and I thought about it and knocked on every door in our community and organized a block party. We ended up becoming close friends with several of the community members (two of them became godparents to one of my daughters, and my wife and I became godparents to a daughter of theirs). The block parties still go on in that community all these years later (we go back occasionally).

    Instead of whining and complaining, somebody has to roll up and sleeves and start building that social capital.

    Good stuff, Twinkie. I agree with your mention of the various ways to build a movement that is independent from being reliant on government – absolutely necessary. That way people can know they have a community that can support them when things get rough and they have an incentive to support that community in turn. Also like your idea about reaching out to the neighbors to build those ground-level and close-by social bonds, very good idea.

    Also, (completely off topic, but if you are a Dune fan):
    https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-secret-history-of-dune/#

    (And Imam Shamyl [ra] was Naqshbandi – winning!!!)

    Peace

  91. @Achmed E. Newman
    On (1), one generation (20 years) would not nearly be enough. It took 2 generations (from the 1924 large-curtailment to 1965) to assimlate the same ratio of newcomers* last time around. The difference now is that almost all of the newcomers are from parts much more foreign in culture and genetics. Back in the 1880's through mid-1920' it was the Germans, E. Europeans, Italians and Irish that took a hell of a long time to fully assimilate.

    I think we need 100 years, and even then, it'll never really be the same place as it was in 1960.

    .

    * Per a nice simple graph I included here, the foreign-born percentage of the US population is almost right where it was at the peak right at a century ago - 13 1/2 % now (2016) vs. 14 1/2 % back then.

    The difference now is that almost all of the newcomers are from parts much more foreign in culture and genetics.

    True.  It used to be the case that 1/3 of legal immigrants failed to make it in the US and went back home.  For the current crop that should be more like 90%, and return should be mandatory for the likes of Somalis.  AAMOF the entry of Somalis and their ilk to the USA should be prohibited save for diplomatic personnel.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Somalians are as close to aliens as you can get without visiting Area 51 or smoking doobies while watching the X-files.

    They're out there ... all over Minneagadishu.
  92. @jeppo
    1) A moratorium on immigration lasting at least a generation

    But President Kushner wants to *increase* immigration.

    2) The repatriation of non-citizens unauthorized to be in the country

    But deporting anyone for any reason makes VP Ivanka sad.

    3) The return of native fertility to at least replacement level

    Of the 26 states with a TFR above the US average of 1.77, only 2 (Hawaii and Minnesota) voted for Hillary. So among the myriad political and cultural divisions in the US is the one big one between Red State breeders and Blue State aborters.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_fertility_rate

    Political dissolution is not only probably inevitable, but absolutely desirable, for both sides. And it doesn't have to be something that might happen sometime in the future; practical steps to prepare the ground for dissolution can be taken now.

    There are competing visions of the Pacific Northwest as the future home of Ecotopia, a green lefty paradise, and the Aryan Nation, a white homeland. So why not both? Move the border between Idaho on one hand, and Washington and Oregon on the other, a few hundred miles to the west along the spine of the Cascade Mtns. This would make far more sense from a political, economic, cultural and geographic point of view than the existing border does.

    It would leave the rump states of WA and OR as hard-left bastions without all those conservatives east of the Cascades throwing a wrench into their plans for a progressive utopia. And while a much larger and more powerful Idaho wouldn't exactly become a white ethnostate, at least not overnight, by "rescuing" all those rightwingers trapped behind enemy lines in eastern WA and OR it would consolidate itself as one of the most conservative states in the union, one day hopefully to become an independent nation in its own right.

    The same could be done to Virginia and West Virginia, with the border between them moved slightly to the east along the Blue Ridge Mtns. This would transfer the right-leaning Shenandoah Valley and SW Virginia from VA to WV. This would leave a smaller Virginia as a bright blue rather than a purple state, and a bigger WV as a ruby red stronghold.

    Changes like these would not affect any other states, nor would it change the total number of states. It would slightly favor the GOP in the Electoral College, but the point is not to gain any partisan advantage, but to reorganize the states along more rational lines and prepare them for eventual independence. Once these changes are made it would be easier to subdivide some of the other states, starting with the Big 6.

    California could and should be divided into a fiercely leftist Inner California (SF Bay Area, Central Coast, Greater LA), and a moderate Outer California (San Diego, all the inland counties including Sacramento, North Coast).

    Texas can legally be split into 5 states, but it would be far easier to divide it into just 2. Hive off the entire Rio Grande Valley from El Paso to Brownsville, up to and including San Antonio and Corpus Christi to create a heavily Hispanic and Democratic South Texas (Tejas do Sul?), while the rest of Texas regains its white majority and staunch Republican voting patterns.

    Florida could be divided just north of Orlando into a white-majority and ferociously conservative Northern Florida, and a largely Hispanic, purple-leaning-towards-blue state of Southern Florida.

    New York could be split between the 5 Boroughs, Long Island, Westchester and Rockland Counties on one hand, and Upstate NY on the other. Greater NYC would be a far-left one-party state, while Upstate would have competitive politics, perhaps leaning Republican.

    Illinois could be divided roughly the same way, with Greater Chicago ("Chicagoland") as a leftist bastion, and Downstate IL as an overwhelmingly white and conservative state.

    Pennsylvania could be divided roughly along the Allegheny Mtns, with Eastern PA (including Harrisburg) as a Democratic state, and Western PA as a Republican one.

    Even if the US survives in the long run, which is doubtful, under this scenario millions more Americans would now live in states more reflective of their politics, ethnicity and culture, which IMO is good for everyone: left, center or right, black, brown or white.

    But I think it's more likely for America's continental empire to fragment into 50 to 60 independent nations. Europe west of Russia is divided into something like 45 sovereign states, and is much smaller than the US. So America eventually subdividing into a similar number of nations would be perfectly normal and consistent with international norms.

    There's no reason why we can't (and lots of reasons why we should) start drawing these future international borders now.

    I think it’s more likely for America’s continental empire to fragment into 50 to 60 independent nations.

    Eh, doubtful.  There are no natural borders for that many divisions, and the general commonalities of language and culture among the majority means that the White fraction will tend to link up into a few large units.

    The blacks and browns, not so much.  They are generally crammed into small urban islands and riven by differences of their own:  Cubans and Mexicans get along poorly, both regard Guatemalans as trash, and they treat ethnic cleansing of blacks as a moral duty.

    What this portends is a sea of red with all the resources surrounding islands of blue with none, and the red starving the blue out until they go home.

    • Replies: @peterAUS

    .... the White fraction will tend to link up into a few large units....
     
    Yep. Keyword: LINKED.

    As for:

    What this portends is a sea of red with all the resources surrounding islands of blue with none, and the red starving the blue out until they go home.
     
    Wouldn't be so simple, I guess.
    , @Stan d Mute
    This map illustrates your point well:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/2016_Nationwide_US_presidential_county_map_shaded_by_vote_share.svg/1280px-2016_Nationwide_US_presidential_county_map_shaded_by_vote_share.svg.png
  93. @Rosie

    I’m okay with sending troops to Venezuela if their purpose is to steal the country’s vast oil reserves and turn them into a vassal state under our dominion.
     
    I oppose the action in Venezuela on principled nationalist grounds. The lastthing we need is more White guilt that can be exploited for the benefit of non-Whites.

    “You’re only rich because you stole our resources. Let us in!”

    Used to be we’d treat the indios and mixed as savages and laugh at them.

    We need to take up that attitude, make it part of our ethos once more.

  94. @iffen
    Give Talha a break, he's trying to play assimilated as best as he can.

    I would think that someone of your persuasion would appreciate his effort.

    Assimilation means miscegenation, to want non whites to race mix because of “assimilation” is disgusting, much worse than anything a standard progressive wants in an ideal society.

  95. @Twinkie

    With your woman, only about things from Ring Three up.
     
    I feel sad for you.

    I share everything with my wife. Everything. She and I have only joint bank accounts. We own everything together. We raise and educate our children together. We have complete and open access to each other's phones, tablets, and computers. We can and do finish each other's sentences. She is my best friend and soulmate.

    A partnership of love such as ours used to be much more commonplace. It's too bad some people do not experience it and do not understand the beauty of male-female union and complementarity.

    Do not lose hope or be cynical and give in to despair. It is possible.

    I feel sad for you.

    I share everything with my wife. Everything.

    Let me guess:
    You are nice, well adjusted, middle-class type. You know, the type who deplores violence etc.
    The last time you’ve been in a fight was in high school and got beaten. Nothing serious, of course.
    Don’t own a firearm. Actually, don’t like “guns”. Never killed an animal by pulling a trigger.
    You like ball games. You find MMA, let alone Vale Tudo, deplorable.

    Never served in armed forces, police etc. of course.

    Last time you spoke with a veteran soldier, over drinks was…..never.
    Last time you spoke with a long serving cop, over drinks, was….never.

    That you’ve never been in firefight, under fire, firing back etc. is given.

    I can go on but you get the drift.

    Do not lose hope or be cynical and give in to despair. It is possible.

    Hahaha…….

    Tell you what: why don’t you, as a nice guy, volunteer, and go to Sudan, or even Yemen, to help desperate people here? Do it for….say….6 months.
    Now, here is a clincher: if you are by chance, offered a gun, take it.

    And, when…OK, IF, you come back share that…ALL that, with your wife. Spill your soul, over morning coffee, for her.
    See how it goes.

    • Replies: @Talha
    Boy - did you bark up the wrong tree...here it comes...

    Peace.
    , @Twinkie
    You got me completely backwards. Most long-time readers on Unz know that I am:

    1. A Judo and BJJ black belt (practiced Judo for 40+ years and BJJ for 20+ years).

    2. A big fan of combat sports, including MMA. I went to see two very early UFCs in person with my wife. I watch no other sport, but I watch Judo, BJJ, boxing, K-1, etc. Even Sumo, Mongolian folk wrestling, and Chidaoba.

    3. I’m a totally crazy gun nut. I find the NRA to be too moderate and belong to GOA (whose founder I know in person).

    4. I hunt regularly. You would note that my comment count drops off dramatically during the early part of the seasons until I hit my limits.

    5. I used to work in CT overseas. I watched one of my best friends and team member die in front of my eyes.
  96. @Stan d Mute
    I’m skeptical that it’s at all possible to Make America Great Again as other commenters have more eloquently written. But your additional itemized list would be about the best shot. You could shorten your list however to:

    4. Elimination of the Federal Reserve.
    6. Reestablishment of freedom of association.
    9. Full stop on the entirety of foreign aid.
    10. A return to Federalism.
     
    A return to hard currency eliminates a huge bulk of the shenanigans, without funny money to pay for all the stupidity, the stupidity rightfully starves to death. Freedom of Association and the restoration of the 10th Amendment likewise solve a lot of problems. Let the States have welfare or not, restrict population (on any basis) or not, condone abortion or not, in a competitive environment. Let the winners enjoy the fruits of their victory and the losers suffer the consequences of their failures. This would also lead to some restoration of the self-sufficiency we have utterly lost on an individual level. I hesitated to keep your foreign aid above since I think that too should fall under the 10th like federal welfare would. In any case, ending foreign aid would entail ending foreign troop deployments. And one item that should be added is the resurrection of the only true purpose of foreign wars - conquest & spoils. I’m okay with sending troops to Venezuela if their purpose is to steal the country’s vast oil reserves and turn them into a vassal state under our dominion. But the sort of lunacy we have in the Middle East where we spend hundreds of billions and get nothing in return must end.

    I’m okay with sending troops to Venezuela if their purpose is to steal the country’s vast oil reserves and turn them into a vassal state under our dominion.

    I’m super-OK with you or your kids grabbing a rifle and being on the first boats to establish a beachhead there. I’m also super-OK with you paying your way to get there since I don’t particular want my taxes going into such nonsense. Please don’t tell us you are a Neocon and want other people or their kids to die for your access to cheaper oil resources. That would be a shame, Stan, a real shame…

    But the sort of lunacy we have in the Middle East where we spend hundreds of billions and get nothing in return must end.

    Oh c’mon now – we get a big thank you card on Hannukah every year from Israel saying what a great job we’re doing. You don’t want them to stop sending us cards, do you? They’re going to stop sayin’ we’re best buds and look elsewhere for a new pal – we would be heartbroken…that would also be a shame…a real shame…

    Peace.

  97. @Mr. Rational

    I think it’s more likely for America’s continental empire to fragment into 50 to 60 independent nations.
     
    Eh, doubtful.  There are no natural borders for that many divisions, and the general commonalities of language and culture among the majority means that the White fraction will tend to link up into a few large units.

    The blacks and browns, not so much.  They are generally crammed into small urban islands and riven by differences of their own:  Cubans and Mexicans get along poorly, both regard Guatemalans as trash, and they treat ethnic cleansing of blacks as a moral duty.

    What this portends is a sea of red with all the resources surrounding islands of blue with none, and the red starving the blue out until they go home.

    …. the White fraction will tend to link up into a few large units….

    Yep. Keyword: LINKED.

    As for:

    What this portends is a sea of red with all the resources surrounding islands of blue with none, and the red starving the blue out until they go home.

    Wouldn’t be so simple, I guess.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational

    Wouldn’t be so simple, I guess.
     
    It depends how much forethought the countryside puts into things, and how brutal it's willing to be.

    Take the blue pustule of Detoilet.  It would be no huge trick to cut off all electric, gas, water and phone service to it in the middle of winter; do this with a blizzard on the way and hijack the plow trucks, and the number of muds able to get out at all would be a few thousand at most.  You stop the first few coming out in vehicles and leave their burned vehicle shells as roadblocks.  That puts them on foot.  Doing this several levels deep makes certain they can't just steal a vehicle and head out again.

    There they are:  no heat, no water besides what's in their water heaters and toilet tanks (which they have probably flushed already), everything freezing rapidly, no food other than what ready-to-eat stuff they have on hand and no way to cook anything else, only the fuel in their vehicle fuel tanks (which isn't much because otherwise their homies would siphon it), no way to pump gas, probably no real cold-weather gear so they can't even walk out.  The ones who have gasoline and generators or grills and charcoal mostly die of CO poisoning from using them indoors to stay warm.  The rest die of hypothermia, the fastest from setting their houses on fire and winding up out in the weather, the rest over a few days.

    Once the flow to the seige lines tapers off, you go in and check for resistance.  You firebomb most buildings where you get any, saving only what's important.  You clean up with bulldozers later.  You'd be done by mid-summer and have cleaned up most of a state.  Seriously, Winter-Chan would be a far more powerful weapon against "sun people" than you would ever believe.
  98. @peterAUS

    I feel sad for you.

    I share everything with my wife. Everything.
     
    Let me guess:
    You are nice, well adjusted, middle-class type. You know, the type who deplores violence etc.
    The last time you've been in a fight was in high school and got beaten. Nothing serious, of course.
    Don't own a firearm. Actually, don't like "guns". Never killed an animal by pulling a trigger.
    You like ball games. You find MMA, let alone Vale Tudo, deplorable.

    Never served in armed forces, police etc. of course.

    Last time you spoke with a veteran soldier, over drinks was.....never.
    Last time you spoke with a long serving cop, over drinks, was....never.

    That you've never been in firefight, under fire, firing back etc. is given.

    I can go on but you get the drift.

    Do not lose hope or be cynical and give in to despair. It is possible.
     
    Hahaha.......

    Tell you what: why don't you, as a nice guy, volunteer, and go to Sudan, or even Yemen, to help desperate people here? Do it for....say....6 months.
    Now, here is a clincher: if you are by chance, offered a gun, take it.

    And, when...OK, IF, you come back share that...ALL that, with your wife. Spill your soul, over morning coffee, for her.
    See how it goes.

    Boy – did you bark up the wrong tree…here it comes…

    Peace.

  99. @peterAUS

    I feel sad for you.

    I share everything with my wife. Everything.
     
    Let me guess:
    You are nice, well adjusted, middle-class type. You know, the type who deplores violence etc.
    The last time you've been in a fight was in high school and got beaten. Nothing serious, of course.
    Don't own a firearm. Actually, don't like "guns". Never killed an animal by pulling a trigger.
    You like ball games. You find MMA, let alone Vale Tudo, deplorable.

    Never served in armed forces, police etc. of course.

    Last time you spoke with a veteran soldier, over drinks was.....never.
    Last time you spoke with a long serving cop, over drinks, was....never.

    That you've never been in firefight, under fire, firing back etc. is given.

    I can go on but you get the drift.

    Do not lose hope or be cynical and give in to despair. It is possible.
     
    Hahaha.......

    Tell you what: why don't you, as a nice guy, volunteer, and go to Sudan, or even Yemen, to help desperate people here? Do it for....say....6 months.
    Now, here is a clincher: if you are by chance, offered a gun, take it.

    And, when...OK, IF, you come back share that...ALL that, with your wife. Spill your soul, over morning coffee, for her.
    See how it goes.

    You got me completely backwards. Most long-time readers on Unz know that I am:

    1. A Judo and BJJ black belt (practiced Judo for 40+ years and BJJ for 20+ years).

    2. A big fan of combat sports, including MMA. I went to see two very early UFCs in person with my wife. I watch no other sport, but I watch Judo, BJJ, boxing, K-1, etc. Even Sumo, Mongolian folk wrestling, and Chidaoba.

    3. I’m a totally crazy gun nut. I find the NRA to be too moderate and belong to GOA (whose founder I know in person).

    4. I hunt regularly. You would note that my comment count drops off dramatically during the early part of the seasons until I hit my limits.

    5. I used to work in CT overseas. I watched one of my best friends and team member die in front of my eyes.

    • Replies: @peterAUS

    You got me completely backwards.
     
    I stand corrected then. Men make mistakes. Hehe...I defnitely make many.
    Even God makes mistakes. First Lilith, then Eve. Anyway. Back to topic.

    I used to work in CT overseas. I watched one of my best friends and team member die in front of my eyes.
     
    Really? Counter Terrorism? REALLY?

    O.K.

    It would be crazy to talk further about the topic here, of course, but, have you really spoken about ALL of that work with your wife? ALL details about that work you've done then and there?
    REALLY?

    Give me a fucking break.
    , @Career
    Any advice on how to get into CT as a young guy? I'm applying directly. Did that work out for you or would you prefer to have spent some time in the regulars first?
  100. @Rosie

    My lying eyes doth not deceive me.

     

    Nor mine.

    Much is made of the fact that there aren’t enough of the men women say they want to go around.

    But then, of course, we all know that there aren’t nearly enough women of the kind desired by men to go around either, especially now that they have porn.

    The question is this: “Who is refusing to settle for whom?” As I said, there is no evidence whatsoever that women are particularly to blame in this regard.

    “But then, of course, we all know that there aren’t nearly enough women of the kind desired by men to go around either, especially now that they have porn.”

    It cracks me up that women think men are so turned on by porn actresses. The average porn actress is a 6 out of 10. That is in comparison to other women 18 – 30 years old. Thinking back on my past girlfriends, they are all hotter than the average porn actress. Guys watch porn because they don’t have immediate access to the real thing, not because the girls are so objectively hot.

    Older men may be genuinely attracted to porn actresses, but that is only because a non-obese 20-year old will 99% of the time be more attractive than a 50-year old wife.

    A hilarious irony about porn is that the guys are almost always more physically attractive than the girl they’re banging.

  101. @Twinkie
    You got me completely backwards. Most long-time readers on Unz know that I am:

    1. A Judo and BJJ black belt (practiced Judo for 40+ years and BJJ for 20+ years).

    2. A big fan of combat sports, including MMA. I went to see two very early UFCs in person with my wife. I watch no other sport, but I watch Judo, BJJ, boxing, K-1, etc. Even Sumo, Mongolian folk wrestling, and Chidaoba.

    3. I’m a totally crazy gun nut. I find the NRA to be too moderate and belong to GOA (whose founder I know in person).

    4. I hunt regularly. You would note that my comment count drops off dramatically during the early part of the seasons until I hit my limits.

    5. I used to work in CT overseas. I watched one of my best friends and team member die in front of my eyes.

    You got me completely backwards.

    I stand corrected then. Men make mistakes. Hehe…I defnitely make many.
    Even God makes mistakes. First Lilith, then Eve. Anyway. Back to topic.

    I used to work in CT overseas. I watched one of my best friends and team member die in front of my eyes.

    Really? Counter Terrorism? REALLY?

    O.K.

    It would be crazy to talk further about the topic here, of course, but, have you really spoken about ALL of that work with your wife? ALL details about that work you’ve done then and there?
    REALLY?

    Give me a fucking break.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    It would be crazy to talk further about the topic here, of course, but, have you really spoken about ALL of that work with your wife?
     
    When I came back, I was not in a good place physically and emotionally. I had to do significant recovery and rehab, and was very depressed for a while. Other than that I don’t care to share more about my emotional turmoils of that time with unanimous strangers on the Internet.

    But I will say this: my wife was a trooper through it all and got me out of it. If it wasn’t for her, I don’t think I’d be where I am today. She was very tender when needed and also kicked my ass into gear when appropriate. None of that was surprising. She was a high level athlete in college and has very strong internal fortitude. And she grew up with a father and uncles who all served in Vietnam, and most of the men in her family served in mil/intel/fed LE. I actually ran into one of her cousins overseas (he was a helo pilot), and gave him a H&K USP 45 I was carrying (it was too big and unwieldy for me and I carried a Browning Hi-Power the rest of my assignment though I was issued a Glock 19).
  102. @peterAUS

    .... the White fraction will tend to link up into a few large units....
     
    Yep. Keyword: LINKED.

    As for:

    What this portends is a sea of red with all the resources surrounding islands of blue with none, and the red starving the blue out until they go home.
     
    Wouldn't be so simple, I guess.

    Wouldn’t be so simple, I guess.

    It depends how much forethought the countryside puts into things, and how brutal it’s willing to be.

    Take the blue pustule of Detoilet.  It would be no huge trick to cut off all electric, gas, water and phone service to it in the middle of winter; do this with a blizzard on the way and hijack the plow trucks, and the number of muds able to get out at all would be a few thousand at most.  You stop the first few coming out in vehicles and leave their burned vehicle shells as roadblocks.  That puts them on foot.  Doing this several levels deep makes certain they can’t just steal a vehicle and head out again.

    There they are:  no heat, no water besides what’s in their water heaters and toilet tanks (which they have probably flushed already), everything freezing rapidly, no food other than what ready-to-eat stuff they have on hand and no way to cook anything else, only the fuel in their vehicle fuel tanks (which isn’t much because otherwise their homies would siphon it), no way to pump gas, probably no real cold-weather gear so they can’t even walk out.  The ones who have gasoline and generators or grills and charcoal mostly die of CO poisoning from using them indoors to stay warm.  The rest die of hypothermia, the fastest from setting their houses on fire and winding up out in the weather, the rest over a few days.

    Once the flow to the seige lines tapers off, you go in and check for resistance.  You firebomb most buildings where you get any, saving only what’s important.  You clean up with bulldozers later.  You’d be done by mid-summer and have cleaned up most of a state.  Seriously, Winter-Chan would be a far more powerful weapon against “sun people” than you would ever believe.

    • Agree: Stan d Mute
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    It depends how much forethought the countryside puts into things, and how brutal it’s willing to be.
     
    Yep.
    You obviously, have given it some thought. So, have you played all the scenarios (you can imagine) out? Properly played out?
    By properly I mean using similar methodology which, say, a Corps sized outfit in West uses, as we see, for similar missions ? Corps sized because that would be an outfit required to ..ahm…”deal” with an average city. Siege etc. I mean.

    Take the blue pustule of Detoilet. It would be no huge trick to cut off all electric, gas, water and phone service to it in the middle of winter; do this with a blizzard on the way and hijack the plow trucks, and the number of muds able to get out at all would be a few thousand at most. You stop the first few coming out in vehicles and leave their burned vehicle shells as roadblocks. That puts them on foot. Doing this several levels deep makes certain they can’t just steal a vehicle and head out again.
     
    That simple? Doubt it.

    There they are: no heat, no water besides what’s in their water heaters and toilet tanks (which they have probably flushed already), everything freezing rapidly, no food other than what ready-to-eat stuff they have on hand and no way to cook anything else, only the fuel in their vehicle fuel tanks (which isn’t much because otherwise their homies would siphon it), no way to pump gas, probably no real cold-weather gear so they can’t even walk out. The ones who have gasoline and generators or grills and charcoal mostly die of CO poisoning from using them indoors to stay warm. The rest die of hypothermia, the fastest from setting their houses on fire and winding up out in the weather, the rest over a few days.
     
    Don't think so I am afraid.
    Food for thought: Self-organization. Local gangs working together with local communities. A lot of talent and expertise there. From natural leaders, through professional politicians, ex/current military and police. Add firefighters and the rest of required expertise with ease.
    Bottom line, those besieged wouldn’t just stay there and take it. In fact, in some cases they’d prove much more effective than the besiegers I am sure.
    Play the scenarios by the book, one day. METT-T. Second and fourth elements there.

    Once the flow to the seige lines tapers off, you go in and check for resistance. You firebomb most buildings where you get any, saving only what’s important. You clean up with bulldozers later. You’d be done by mid-summer and have cleaned up most of a state. Seriously, Winter-Chan would be a far more powerful weapon against “sun people” than you would ever believe.
     
    Simplistic I am afraid.
    Really simplistic. You are on the right track, probably. First 100 meters I’d say. The track is around 10 000 meters long. Keep at it. I mean it.

    Parting thought: I feel you think at company level, tops. Get bigger. Think at Corps level. Give it a shot.

    , @Audacious Epigone
    Schoolmarm disapproves of:

    "muds"

    It's dehumanizing. Thanks in advance!
  103. @Mr. Rational

    I think it’s more likely for America’s continental empire to fragment into 50 to 60 independent nations.
     
    Eh, doubtful.  There are no natural borders for that many divisions, and the general commonalities of language and culture among the majority means that the White fraction will tend to link up into a few large units.

    The blacks and browns, not so much.  They are generally crammed into small urban islands and riven by differences of their own:  Cubans and Mexicans get along poorly, both regard Guatemalans as trash, and they treat ethnic cleansing of blacks as a moral duty.

    What this portends is a sea of red with all the resources surrounding islands of blue with none, and the red starving the blue out until they go home.

    This map illustrates your point well:

  104. @Mr. Rational

    Wouldn’t be so simple, I guess.
     
    It depends how much forethought the countryside puts into things, and how brutal it's willing to be.

    Take the blue pustule of Detoilet.  It would be no huge trick to cut off all electric, gas, water and phone service to it in the middle of winter; do this with a blizzard on the way and hijack the plow trucks, and the number of muds able to get out at all would be a few thousand at most.  You stop the first few coming out in vehicles and leave their burned vehicle shells as roadblocks.  That puts them on foot.  Doing this several levels deep makes certain they can't just steal a vehicle and head out again.

    There they are:  no heat, no water besides what's in their water heaters and toilet tanks (which they have probably flushed already), everything freezing rapidly, no food other than what ready-to-eat stuff they have on hand and no way to cook anything else, only the fuel in their vehicle fuel tanks (which isn't much because otherwise their homies would siphon it), no way to pump gas, probably no real cold-weather gear so they can't even walk out.  The ones who have gasoline and generators or grills and charcoal mostly die of CO poisoning from using them indoors to stay warm.  The rest die of hypothermia, the fastest from setting their houses on fire and winding up out in the weather, the rest over a few days.

    Once the flow to the seige lines tapers off, you go in and check for resistance.  You firebomb most buildings where you get any, saving only what's important.  You clean up with bulldozers later.  You'd be done by mid-summer and have cleaned up most of a state.  Seriously, Winter-Chan would be a far more powerful weapon against "sun people" than you would ever believe.

    It depends how much forethought the countryside puts into things, and how brutal it’s willing to be.

    Yep.
    You obviously, have given it some thought. So, have you played all the scenarios (you can imagine) out? Properly played out?
    By properly I mean using similar methodology which, say, a Corps sized outfit in West uses, as we see, for similar missions ? Corps sized because that would be an outfit required to ..ahm…”deal” with an average city. Siege etc. I mean.

    Take the blue pustule of Detoilet. It would be no huge trick to cut off all electric, gas, water and phone service to it in the middle of winter; do this with a blizzard on the way and hijack the plow trucks, and the number of muds able to get out at all would be a few thousand at most. You stop the first few coming out in vehicles and leave their burned vehicle shells as roadblocks. That puts them on foot. Doing this several levels deep makes certain they can’t just steal a vehicle and head out again.

    That simple? Doubt it.

    There they are: no heat, no water besides what’s in their water heaters and toilet tanks (which they have probably flushed already), everything freezing rapidly, no food other than what ready-to-eat stuff they have on hand and no way to cook anything else, only the fuel in their vehicle fuel tanks (which isn’t much because otherwise their homies would siphon it), no way to pump gas, probably no real cold-weather gear so they can’t even walk out. The ones who have gasoline and generators or grills and charcoal mostly die of CO poisoning from using them indoors to stay warm. The rest die of hypothermia, the fastest from setting their houses on fire and winding up out in the weather, the rest over a few days.

    Don’t think so I am afraid.
    Food for thought: Self-organization. Local gangs working together with local communities. A lot of talent and expertise there. From natural leaders, through professional politicians, ex/current military and police. Add firefighters and the rest of required expertise with ease.
    Bottom line, those besieged wouldn’t just stay there and take it. In fact, in some cases they’d prove much more effective than the besiegers I am sure.
    Play the scenarios by the book, one day. METT-T. Second and fourth elements there.

    Once the flow to the seige lines tapers off, you go in and check for resistance. You firebomb most buildings where you get any, saving only what’s important. You clean up with bulldozers later. You’d be done by mid-summer and have cleaned up most of a state. Seriously, Winter-Chan would be a far more powerful weapon against “sun people” than you would ever believe.

    Simplistic I am afraid.
    Really simplistic. You are on the right track, probably. First 100 meters I’d say. The track is around 10 000 meters long. Keep at it. I mean it.

    Parting thought: I feel you think at company level, tops. Get bigger. Think at Corps level. Give it a shot.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    To make the exercise easier, how about this:
    Play the opposite. Imagine YOU are besieged. Take your own town,even city, and imagine YOU are besieged there by......well, find the most appropriate "enemy". We are just talking about an intellectual exercise here.

    Imagine yourself as a guy a local, say, Council, came for help to organize defense. Hell, even a linkup with a similar (besieged) city/town.
    Try.......could be interesting. Could beat watching ball games, probably.

    , @Twinkie

    Local gangs working together with local communities.
     
    I’m a part of a group of families with contingency plans for major infrastructure failures/disruptions. We keep tabs on the local Hispanic gangs. In the absence of government authority, they are the only potential major opposing forces of whom we are mindful.
    , @Mr. Rational

    Food for thought: Self-organization. Local gangs working together with local communities. A lot of talent and expertise there.
     
    Local gangs working together?  HAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahaheeheeheeheehooooooo..... oh my aching sides....

    These are 85-IQ hood rats.  You are literally talking people who will shoot up funerals where their rivals are burying victims of the last drive-by; they are likely to shoot each other before even reaching defenders who've put roadblocks in front of their neighborhoods.  They will be WOEFULLY unprepared.  They MAY have ONE extra magazine for their handgun, but probably not more than a box of ammunition... and that will be hardball, not JHP.  Long guns, optical sights... no way.

    Deer hunters with their pals with spotting scopes will be able engage them from cover before they're even seen.  Semi-auto shotguns are vastly more powerful than a 40 S&W, let alone a 9mm.  And there are something like a MILLION deer hunters in Michigan alone.

    The wild card is the police and National Guard.  Deer hunters will have a hard time bringing themselves to shoot at men in uniform, so what matters is if they turn out or stay home to defend their families.  If the paychecks have gotten unreliable, they'll stay home.
  105. @peterAUS

    It depends how much forethought the countryside puts into things, and how brutal it’s willing to be.
     
    Yep.
    You obviously, have given it some thought. So, have you played all the scenarios (you can imagine) out? Properly played out?
    By properly I mean using similar methodology which, say, a Corps sized outfit in West uses, as we see, for similar missions ? Corps sized because that would be an outfit required to ..ahm…”deal” with an average city. Siege etc. I mean.

    Take the blue pustule of Detoilet. It would be no huge trick to cut off all electric, gas, water and phone service to it in the middle of winter; do this with a blizzard on the way and hijack the plow trucks, and the number of muds able to get out at all would be a few thousand at most. You stop the first few coming out in vehicles and leave their burned vehicle shells as roadblocks. That puts them on foot. Doing this several levels deep makes certain they can’t just steal a vehicle and head out again.
     
    That simple? Doubt it.

    There they are: no heat, no water besides what’s in their water heaters and toilet tanks (which they have probably flushed already), everything freezing rapidly, no food other than what ready-to-eat stuff they have on hand and no way to cook anything else, only the fuel in their vehicle fuel tanks (which isn’t much because otherwise their homies would siphon it), no way to pump gas, probably no real cold-weather gear so they can’t even walk out. The ones who have gasoline and generators or grills and charcoal mostly die of CO poisoning from using them indoors to stay warm. The rest die of hypothermia, the fastest from setting their houses on fire and winding up out in the weather, the rest over a few days.
     
    Don't think so I am afraid.
    Food for thought: Self-organization. Local gangs working together with local communities. A lot of talent and expertise there. From natural leaders, through professional politicians, ex/current military and police. Add firefighters and the rest of required expertise with ease.
    Bottom line, those besieged wouldn’t just stay there and take it. In fact, in some cases they’d prove much more effective than the besiegers I am sure.
    Play the scenarios by the book, one day. METT-T. Second and fourth elements there.

    Once the flow to the seige lines tapers off, you go in and check for resistance. You firebomb most buildings where you get any, saving only what’s important. You clean up with bulldozers later. You’d be done by mid-summer and have cleaned up most of a state. Seriously, Winter-Chan would be a far more powerful weapon against “sun people” than you would ever believe.
     
    Simplistic I am afraid.
    Really simplistic. You are on the right track, probably. First 100 meters I’d say. The track is around 10 000 meters long. Keep at it. I mean it.

    Parting thought: I feel you think at company level, tops. Get bigger. Think at Corps level. Give it a shot.

    To make the exercise easier, how about this:
    Play the opposite. Imagine YOU are besieged. Take your own town,even city, and imagine YOU are besieged there by……well, find the most appropriate “enemy”. We are just talking about an intellectual exercise here.

    Imagine yourself as a guy a local, say, Council, came for help to organize defense. Hell, even a linkup with a similar (besieged) city/town.
    Try…….could be interesting. Could beat watching ball games, probably.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational

    To make the exercise easier, how about this:
    Play the opposite. Imagine YOU are besieged.

     
    Well, I have long guns.  I have a generator.  I have neighbors who hunt out coyote packs for fun.

    But mostly what I have is 150 miles between me and the nearest of anything you could call hood rats, and in a SHTF or WMAHAWNGTIAM scenario they wouldn't survive the first 20.
  106. Your 1-3 observations have value.

    However, your inevitable consequence of failure is unlikely.

    You might want to take a look at how many federal dollars prop up state governments

  107. @Rosie

    This a better stain because it rewards men, albeit more indirectly, as well as women.
     
    Groans... “stain” should be “solution.”

    Also...


    Yes. Other ideas can be tried – but none are proven.
     
    Enslavement of women is also unproven. For it to be proven, you’d have to try it again, with the following coincidents:

    *Highly effective artificial birth control.
    *Rampant pornography.
    *Pervasive secularism and the concomitant selfish hedonism of momentary pleasure.

    Hilarious. “Enslavement” of women is “unproven”. As if women have not been considered property for almost all of human history, across a majority of civilizations and cultures, and as if female emancipation hasn’t consistently precipitated steep decline every time.

    Take your feminism and shove it, shill.

  108. @peterAUS

    You got me completely backwards.
     
    I stand corrected then. Men make mistakes. Hehe...I defnitely make many.
    Even God makes mistakes. First Lilith, then Eve. Anyway. Back to topic.

    I used to work in CT overseas. I watched one of my best friends and team member die in front of my eyes.
     
    Really? Counter Terrorism? REALLY?

    O.K.

    It would be crazy to talk further about the topic here, of course, but, have you really spoken about ALL of that work with your wife? ALL details about that work you've done then and there?
    REALLY?

    Give me a fucking break.

    It would be crazy to talk further about the topic here, of course, but, have you really spoken about ALL of that work with your wife?

    When I came back, I was not in a good place physically and emotionally. I had to do significant recovery and rehab, and was very depressed for a while. Other than that I don’t care to share more about my emotional turmoils of that time with unanimous strangers on the Internet.

    But I will say this: my wife was a trooper through it all and got me out of it. If it wasn’t for her, I don’t think I’d be where I am today. She was very tender when needed and also kicked my ass into gear when appropriate. None of that was surprising. She was a high level athlete in college and has very strong internal fortitude. And she grew up with a father and uncles who all served in Vietnam, and most of the men in her family served in mil/intel/fed LE. I actually ran into one of her cousins overseas (he was a helo pilot), and gave him a H&K USP 45 I was carrying (it was too big and unwieldy for me and I carried a Browning Hi-Power the rest of my assignment though I was issued a Glock 19).

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    I hear you.

    Let me put it this way: you are me have a lot in common. O.K. correction: you and me, when I was a BIT younger, have a lot in common. Let's leave it there for a simple reason: one shall NEVER let his guard down on Internet, for two reasons:
    ONE: Them. Hehe...talking about it, now this is funny, it could even be your former mates. Or mine.
    Or so I say. Or combination of yours and mine. "Official secrets" and such.
    Two: plenty of, how to put it, "interesting" characters on Internet just waiting to execute their online therapy using you as a syringe. Or pill/bottle/punching bag.
    Three: libtards just waiting to pounce.

    Now...hehe...having mostly agreed with all you say in the comment....I am positive we both know that we NEVER told our "better halves" the full story.

    Just one reason:It would've been against the "job rules" I am sure. You know..."Official...", .OPSEC and such. You tell her, she tells her mother/sister...she tells...."loose lips" etc. Spy game, court martial, stuff like that. Did you say CT? How about "counterintelligence"?

    Of course, there are other reasons I am absolutely positive you are aware about. Hahaha...how about SEALs and "the tomahawk"? Oh my.......

    Even a simple mistake: "I am devastated, honey. I really, REALLY, thought it was a "tango". It did look as a bomb. Oh my God. I shot a pregnant woman"...with obligatory crying, of course. And she tells that her mother...etc.....and then the libtards get you.
    Take a look here:
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/standing-up-not-shooting-the-compassionate-psychopaths-of-the-sas-20180801-p4zux2.html
    "Compassionate psychopaths", a?


    So....Ring One, definitely.
  109. @peterAUS

    It depends how much forethought the countryside puts into things, and how brutal it’s willing to be.
     
    Yep.
    You obviously, have given it some thought. So, have you played all the scenarios (you can imagine) out? Properly played out?
    By properly I mean using similar methodology which, say, a Corps sized outfit in West uses, as we see, for similar missions ? Corps sized because that would be an outfit required to ..ahm…”deal” with an average city. Siege etc. I mean.

    Take the blue pustule of Detoilet. It would be no huge trick to cut off all electric, gas, water and phone service to it in the middle of winter; do this with a blizzard on the way and hijack the plow trucks, and the number of muds able to get out at all would be a few thousand at most. You stop the first few coming out in vehicles and leave their burned vehicle shells as roadblocks. That puts them on foot. Doing this several levels deep makes certain they can’t just steal a vehicle and head out again.
     
    That simple? Doubt it.

    There they are: no heat, no water besides what’s in their water heaters and toilet tanks (which they have probably flushed already), everything freezing rapidly, no food other than what ready-to-eat stuff they have on hand and no way to cook anything else, only the fuel in their vehicle fuel tanks (which isn’t much because otherwise their homies would siphon it), no way to pump gas, probably no real cold-weather gear so they can’t even walk out. The ones who have gasoline and generators or grills and charcoal mostly die of CO poisoning from using them indoors to stay warm. The rest die of hypothermia, the fastest from setting their houses on fire and winding up out in the weather, the rest over a few days.
     
    Don't think so I am afraid.
    Food for thought: Self-organization. Local gangs working together with local communities. A lot of talent and expertise there. From natural leaders, through professional politicians, ex/current military and police. Add firefighters and the rest of required expertise with ease.
    Bottom line, those besieged wouldn’t just stay there and take it. In fact, in some cases they’d prove much more effective than the besiegers I am sure.
    Play the scenarios by the book, one day. METT-T. Second and fourth elements there.

    Once the flow to the seige lines tapers off, you go in and check for resistance. You firebomb most buildings where you get any, saving only what’s important. You clean up with bulldozers later. You’d be done by mid-summer and have cleaned up most of a state. Seriously, Winter-Chan would be a far more powerful weapon against “sun people” than you would ever believe.
     
    Simplistic I am afraid.
    Really simplistic. You are on the right track, probably. First 100 meters I’d say. The track is around 10 000 meters long. Keep at it. I mean it.

    Parting thought: I feel you think at company level, tops. Get bigger. Think at Corps level. Give it a shot.

    Local gangs working together with local communities.

    I’m a part of a group of families with contingency plans for major infrastructure failures/disruptions. We keep tabs on the local Hispanic gangs. In the absence of government authority, they are the only potential major opposing forces of whom we are mindful.

    • Replies: @peterAUS

    I’m a part of a group of families with contingency plans for major infrastructure failures/disruptions. We keep tabs on the local Hispanic gangs. In the absence of government authority, they are the only potential major opposing forces of whom we are mindful.
     
    Compliments, really.

    How about you try to elevate your game?
    A bit different scenario (as in those comments to Mr Rational).
    If you feel like it, of course.

    At the moment I am sure you have it right at that level. Group of friends in distress, sort of.
    That's good, of course.

    Maybe thinking about helping wider community in similar distress wouldn't be a bad (intellectual) exercise. You could brainstorm it with your friends, even. Some of them anyway...hehe.
    Hell, you can even do a war game. Two sides ...you know the drill.
  110. @Twinkie

    It would be crazy to talk further about the topic here, of course, but, have you really spoken about ALL of that work with your wife?
     
    When I came back, I was not in a good place physically and emotionally. I had to do significant recovery and rehab, and was very depressed for a while. Other than that I don’t care to share more about my emotional turmoils of that time with unanimous strangers on the Internet.

    But I will say this: my wife was a trooper through it all and got me out of it. If it wasn’t for her, I don’t think I’d be where I am today. She was very tender when needed and also kicked my ass into gear when appropriate. None of that was surprising. She was a high level athlete in college and has very strong internal fortitude. And she grew up with a father and uncles who all served in Vietnam, and most of the men in her family served in mil/intel/fed LE. I actually ran into one of her cousins overseas (he was a helo pilot), and gave him a H&K USP 45 I was carrying (it was too big and unwieldy for me and I carried a Browning Hi-Power the rest of my assignment though I was issued a Glock 19).

    I hear you.

    Let me put it this way: you are me have a lot in common. O.K. correction: you and me, when I was a BIT younger, have a lot in common. Let’s leave it there for a simple reason: one shall NEVER let his guard down on Internet, for two reasons:
    ONE: Them. Hehe…talking about it, now this is funny, it could even be your former mates. Or mine.
    Or so I say. Or combination of yours and mine. “Official secrets” and such.
    Two: plenty of, how to put it, “interesting” characters on Internet just waiting to execute their online therapy using you as a syringe. Or pill/bottle/punching bag.
    Three: libtards just waiting to pounce.

    Now…hehe…having mostly agreed with all you say in the comment….I am positive we both know that we NEVER told our “better halves” the full story.

    Just one reason:It would’ve been against the “job rules” I am sure. You know…”Official…”, .OPSEC and such. You tell her, she tells her mother/sister…she tells….”loose lips” etc. Spy game, court martial, stuff like that. Did you say CT? How about “counterintelligence”?

    Of course, there are other reasons I am absolutely positive you are aware about. Hahaha…how about SEALs and “the tomahawk”? Oh my…….

    Even a simple mistake: “I am devastated, honey. I really, REALLY, thought it was a “tango”. It did look as a bomb. Oh my God. I shot a pregnant woman”…with obligatory crying, of course. And she tells that her mother…etc…..and then the libtards get you.
    Take a look here:
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/standing-up-not-shooting-the-compassionate-psychopaths-of-the-sas-20180801-p4zux2.html
    “Compassionate psychopaths”, a?

    So….Ring One, definitely.

  111. @Twinkie

    Local gangs working together with local communities.
     
    I’m a part of a group of families with contingency plans for major infrastructure failures/disruptions. We keep tabs on the local Hispanic gangs. In the absence of government authority, they are the only potential major opposing forces of whom we are mindful.

    I’m a part of a group of families with contingency plans for major infrastructure failures/disruptions. We keep tabs on the local Hispanic gangs. In the absence of government authority, they are the only potential major opposing forces of whom we are mindful.

    Compliments, really.

    How about you try to elevate your game?
    A bit different scenario (as in those comments to Mr Rational).
    If you feel like it, of course.

    At the moment I am sure you have it right at that level. Group of friends in distress, sort of.
    That’s good, of course.

    Maybe thinking about helping wider community in similar distress wouldn’t be a bad (intellectual) exercise. You could brainstorm it with your friends, even. Some of them anyway…hehe.
    Hell, you can even do a war game. Two sides …you know the drill.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    Maybe thinking about helping wider community in similar distress wouldn’t be a bad (intellectual) exercise. You could brainstorm it with your friends, even. Some of them anyway…hehe.
    Hell, you can even do a war game. Two sides …you know the drill.
     
    I read somewhere that Mao Zedong treated two epic Ming dynasty classic novels - the Romance of the Three Kingdoms and the Water Margin - as operating manuals. Given that they were quasi-historical documents, that's not such a stretch. While practical ant's eye level skills are necessary, big picture decisions and maneuvers are also part of survival.
    , @Twinkie

    How about you try to elevate your game?
     
    You don’t have a clue about what my “game” is, and your word salad reply is incoherent, at best.

    I’ll just reveal this much. I have a group of friends who own their own island. They invited me to join (and buy in), but I declined, because I have my own defensible community already.
  112. @Rosie

    Now Buddhism is in the thought stream, but I find the chanting disconcerting. But I think we can all agree that the religion of Atheism is bleak, devoid of hope and imagination.
     
    I had a long love affair with Buddhism, and still some fondness for it now, but I assure you, Buddhism is, at its core, every bit as bleak and nihilistic as atheism. I have come to the following conclusion, which I’m not sure I’ve shared here before:

    Buddhism is compelling at first blush, and absurd on further reflection; Christianity is absurd at first blush, and compelling on further reflection.

    Interesting, thoughtful comment. Thanks.

  113. @peterAUS

    I’m a part of a group of families with contingency plans for major infrastructure failures/disruptions. We keep tabs on the local Hispanic gangs. In the absence of government authority, they are the only potential major opposing forces of whom we are mindful.
     
    Compliments, really.

    How about you try to elevate your game?
    A bit different scenario (as in those comments to Mr Rational).
    If you feel like it, of course.

    At the moment I am sure you have it right at that level. Group of friends in distress, sort of.
    That's good, of course.

    Maybe thinking about helping wider community in similar distress wouldn't be a bad (intellectual) exercise. You could brainstorm it with your friends, even. Some of them anyway...hehe.
    Hell, you can even do a war game. Two sides ...you know the drill.

    Maybe thinking about helping wider community in similar distress wouldn’t be a bad (intellectual) exercise. You could brainstorm it with your friends, even. Some of them anyway…hehe.
    Hell, you can even do a war game. Two sides …you know the drill.

    I read somewhere that Mao Zedong treated two epic Ming dynasty classic novels – the Romance of the Three Kingdoms and the Water Margin – as operating manuals. Given that they were quasi-historical documents, that’s not such a stretch. While practical ant’s eye level skills are necessary, big picture decisions and maneuvers are also part of survival.

    • Replies: @peterAUS

    While practical ant’s eye level skills are necessary, big picture decisions and maneuvers are also part of survival.
     
    Of course.
    A full stack is necessary for this topic. Let's clarify it: "self-determination".
    From an individual trooper to a, sort of, Corps level capability.

    When one wants to talk about "self-determination entity" it will need a defense capability in order to survive.
    Having that capability goes way above current self-defense groups, militias and such. That's why TPTPBs don't care about them.
    Try to organize a group which will provide a document to implement a self-defense force of "self-determination" entity" somewhere in USA and FBI will "knock" at your door yesterday.

    You'll also notice that when people talk about such topics it's always up to level of Lt Col. at the most. Mostly ex-NCOs, actually.
    Never a Lieutenant General , Ret. for example.Ever.

    Which makes all that truly academic at this stage.

    Now, nobody said that those types (Generals) wouldn't join if/when they feel the time is right.

    Complex topic anyway.
    Plus, at the moment, almost zero interest for that within "deplorable"/Alt-right sphere.
    At the moment.

    , @Twinkie

    I read somewhere that Mao Zedong treated two epic Ming dynasty classic novels – the Romance of the Three Kingdoms and the Water Margin – as operating manuals.
     
    I think you should take such a claim with more than a pinch of salt. Quasi-historical is right. They are entertaining books (though very long), to be sure, and are important parts of East Asian canon, but hardly offer anything more than very generalized lessons about war.

    By the way, isn’t Zhuge Liang a huge disappointment? He was supposed to be this grand strategic genius nonpareil, but what did he achieve?
  114. @Johann Ricke

    Maybe thinking about helping wider community in similar distress wouldn’t be a bad (intellectual) exercise. You could brainstorm it with your friends, even. Some of them anyway…hehe.
    Hell, you can even do a war game. Two sides …you know the drill.
     
    I read somewhere that Mao Zedong treated two epic Ming dynasty classic novels - the Romance of the Three Kingdoms and the Water Margin - as operating manuals. Given that they were quasi-historical documents, that's not such a stretch. While practical ant's eye level skills are necessary, big picture decisions and maneuvers are also part of survival.

    While practical ant’s eye level skills are necessary, big picture decisions and maneuvers are also part of survival.

    Of course.
    A full stack is necessary for this topic. Let’s clarify it: “self-determination”.
    From an individual trooper to a, sort of, Corps level capability.

    When one wants to talk about “self-determination entity” it will need a defense capability in order to survive.
    Having that capability goes way above current self-defense groups, militias and such. That’s why TPTPBs don’t care about them.
    Try to organize a group which will provide a document to implement a self-defense force of “self-determination” entity” somewhere in USA and FBI will “knock” at your door yesterday.

    You’ll also notice that when people talk about such topics it’s always up to level of Lt Col. at the most. Mostly ex-NCOs, actually.
    Never a Lieutenant General , Ret. for example.Ever.

    Which makes all that truly academic at this stage.

    Now, nobody said that those types (Generals) wouldn’t join if/when they feel the time is right.

    Complex topic anyway.
    Plus, at the moment, almost zero interest for that within “deplorable”/Alt-right sphere.
    At the moment.

  115. Yes, I’d say this is about right. This is the minimum that’s necessary. It won’t necessarily be sufficient, but there’s no way to avoid being torn asunder without at least achieving this trio of of goals.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Great to hear from you, sir. It's been awhile!
  116. @peterAUS

    It depends how much forethought the countryside puts into things, and how brutal it’s willing to be.
     
    Yep.
    You obviously, have given it some thought. So, have you played all the scenarios (you can imagine) out? Properly played out?
    By properly I mean using similar methodology which, say, a Corps sized outfit in West uses, as we see, for similar missions ? Corps sized because that would be an outfit required to ..ahm…”deal” with an average city. Siege etc. I mean.

    Take the blue pustule of Detoilet. It would be no huge trick to cut off all electric, gas, water and phone service to it in the middle of winter; do this with a blizzard on the way and hijack the plow trucks, and the number of muds able to get out at all would be a few thousand at most. You stop the first few coming out in vehicles and leave their burned vehicle shells as roadblocks. That puts them on foot. Doing this several levels deep makes certain they can’t just steal a vehicle and head out again.
     
    That simple? Doubt it.

    There they are: no heat, no water besides what’s in their water heaters and toilet tanks (which they have probably flushed already), everything freezing rapidly, no food other than what ready-to-eat stuff they have on hand and no way to cook anything else, only the fuel in their vehicle fuel tanks (which isn’t much because otherwise their homies would siphon it), no way to pump gas, probably no real cold-weather gear so they can’t even walk out. The ones who have gasoline and generators or grills and charcoal mostly die of CO poisoning from using them indoors to stay warm. The rest die of hypothermia, the fastest from setting their houses on fire and winding up out in the weather, the rest over a few days.
     
    Don't think so I am afraid.
    Food for thought: Self-organization. Local gangs working together with local communities. A lot of talent and expertise there. From natural leaders, through professional politicians, ex/current military and police. Add firefighters and the rest of required expertise with ease.
    Bottom line, those besieged wouldn’t just stay there and take it. In fact, in some cases they’d prove much more effective than the besiegers I am sure.
    Play the scenarios by the book, one day. METT-T. Second and fourth elements there.

    Once the flow to the seige lines tapers off, you go in and check for resistance. You firebomb most buildings where you get any, saving only what’s important. You clean up with bulldozers later. You’d be done by mid-summer and have cleaned up most of a state. Seriously, Winter-Chan would be a far more powerful weapon against “sun people” than you would ever believe.
     
    Simplistic I am afraid.
    Really simplistic. You are on the right track, probably. First 100 meters I’d say. The track is around 10 000 meters long. Keep at it. I mean it.

    Parting thought: I feel you think at company level, tops. Get bigger. Think at Corps level. Give it a shot.

    Food for thought: Self-organization. Local gangs working together with local communities. A lot of talent and expertise there.

    Local gangs working together?  HAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahaheeheeheeheehooooooo….. oh my aching sides….

    These are 85-IQ hood rats.  You are literally talking people who will shoot up funerals where their rivals are burying victims of the last drive-by; they are likely to shoot each other before even reaching defenders who’ve put roadblocks in front of their neighborhoods.  They will be WOEFULLY unprepared.  They MAY have ONE extra magazine for their handgun, but probably not more than a box of ammunition… and that will be hardball, not JHP.  Long guns, optical sights… no way.

    Deer hunters with their pals with spotting scopes will be able engage them from cover before they’re even seen.  Semi-auto shotguns are vastly more powerful than a 40 S&W, let alone a 9mm.  And there are something like a MILLION deer hunters in Michigan alone.

    The wild card is the police and National Guard.  Deer hunters will have a hard time bringing themselves to shoot at men in uniform, so what matters is if they turn out or stay home to defend their families.  If the paychecks have gotten unreliable, they’ll stay home.

    • Replies: @peterAUS

    Local gangs working together? HAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahaheeheeheeheehooooooo….. oh my aching sides….

    These are 85-IQ hood rats. You are literally talking people who will shoot up funerals where their rivals are burying victims of the last drive-by; they are likely to shoot each other before even reaching defenders who’ve put roadblocks in front of their neighborhoods. They will be WOEFULLY unprepared. They MAY have ONE extra magazine for their handgun, but probably not more than a box of ammunition… and that will be hardball, not JHP. Long guns, optical sights… no way.
     
    You've made your estimate of one part of one of the elements.
    O.K.

    Deer hunters with their pals with spotting scopes will be able engage them from cover before they’re even seen. Semi-auto shotguns are vastly more powerful than a 40 S&W, let alone a 9mm. And there are something like a MILLION deer hunters in Michigan alone.
     
    You've made your estimate of one part another element.
    O.K.

    The wild card is the police and National Guard.
     
    You don't know, at this stage, what element to put those two in.

    A little oversight, perhaps: Federal forces. Probably the same, uncertain.
     
    O.K.

    Deer hunters will have a hard time bringing themselves to shoot at men in uniform, so what matters is if they turn out or stay home to defend their families. If the paychecks have gotten unreliable, they’ll stay home.
     
    Deer hunters.............you say.Unreliable paychecks too.
    O.K.

    Well.....free will, brother.
    , @Twinkie

    These are 85-IQ hood rats. You are literally talking people who will shoot up funerals where their rivals are burying victims of the last drive-by
     
    While I don’t think rival street gangs would cooperate readily, there are precedents, e.g. the L.A. Riots.

    Local gangs aren’t a potential problem because they are smart and capable. They are a concern, because they have ready-made internal cohesion, unity of command/purpose, willingness to engage in group violence decisively when needed, and so on. And they already possess a larger captive population base to tax and conscript for their purposes.

    In normal civilian American society, most people don’t have that kind of tightly-bound social organization to fall back on in extremis, except people such as Mormons and others with similarly shared values and ethos of preparation.
  117. @peterAUS
    To make the exercise easier, how about this:
    Play the opposite. Imagine YOU are besieged. Take your own town,even city, and imagine YOU are besieged there by......well, find the most appropriate "enemy". We are just talking about an intellectual exercise here.

    Imagine yourself as a guy a local, say, Council, came for help to organize defense. Hell, even a linkup with a similar (besieged) city/town.
    Try.......could be interesting. Could beat watching ball games, probably.

    To make the exercise easier, how about this:
    Play the opposite. Imagine YOU are besieged.

    Well, I have long guns.  I have a generator.  I have neighbors who hunt out coyote packs for fun.

    But mostly what I have is 150 miles between me and the nearest of anything you could call hood rats, and in a SHTF or WMAHAWNGTIAM scenario they wouldn’t survive the first 20.

    • Replies: @peterAUS

    Well, I have long guns. I have a generator. I have neighbors who hunt out coyote packs for fun.

    But mostly what I have is 150 miles between me and the nearest of anything you could call hood rats, and in a SHTF or WMAHAWNGTIAM scenario they wouldn’t survive the first 20.
     
    Admirable.

    I was thinking along your town being besieged by .......somebody.

    Anyway.
    Some other time, perhaps.
    , @Twinkie

    Well, I have long guns. I have a generator. I have neighbors who hunt out coyote packs for fun.
     
    Internet survivalists are always on about how they are armed.

    Do you have a reliable water source that is defensible? Do you know how to use a trauma kit with Israeli bandages or otherwise have accessible medical care?
  118. @Mr. Rational

    Food for thought: Self-organization. Local gangs working together with local communities. A lot of talent and expertise there.
     
    Local gangs working together?  HAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahaheeheeheeheehooooooo..... oh my aching sides....

    These are 85-IQ hood rats.  You are literally talking people who will shoot up funerals where their rivals are burying victims of the last drive-by; they are likely to shoot each other before even reaching defenders who've put roadblocks in front of their neighborhoods.  They will be WOEFULLY unprepared.  They MAY have ONE extra magazine for their handgun, but probably not more than a box of ammunition... and that will be hardball, not JHP.  Long guns, optical sights... no way.

    Deer hunters with their pals with spotting scopes will be able engage them from cover before they're even seen.  Semi-auto shotguns are vastly more powerful than a 40 S&W, let alone a 9mm.  And there are something like a MILLION deer hunters in Michigan alone.

    The wild card is the police and National Guard.  Deer hunters will have a hard time bringing themselves to shoot at men in uniform, so what matters is if they turn out or stay home to defend their families.  If the paychecks have gotten unreliable, they'll stay home.

    Local gangs working together? HAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahaheeheeheeheehooooooo….. oh my aching sides….

    These are 85-IQ hood rats. You are literally talking people who will shoot up funerals where their rivals are burying victims of the last drive-by; they are likely to shoot each other before even reaching defenders who’ve put roadblocks in front of their neighborhoods. They will be WOEFULLY unprepared. They MAY have ONE extra magazine for their handgun, but probably not more than a box of ammunition… and that will be hardball, not JHP. Long guns, optical sights… no way.

    You’ve made your estimate of one part of one of the elements.
    O.K.

    Deer hunters with their pals with spotting scopes will be able engage them from cover before they’re even seen. Semi-auto shotguns are vastly more powerful than a 40 S&W, let alone a 9mm. And there are something like a MILLION deer hunters in Michigan alone.

    You’ve made your estimate of one part another element.
    O.K.

    The wild card is the police and National Guard.

    You don’t know, at this stage, what element to put those two in.

    A little oversight, perhaps: Federal forces. Probably the same, uncertain.

    O.K.

    Deer hunters will have a hard time bringing themselves to shoot at men in uniform, so what matters is if they turn out or stay home to defend their families. If the paychecks have gotten unreliable, they’ll stay home.

    Deer hunters………….you say.Unreliable paychecks too.
    O.K.

    Well…..free will, brother.

  119. @Mr. Rational

    To make the exercise easier, how about this:
    Play the opposite. Imagine YOU are besieged.

     
    Well, I have long guns.  I have a generator.  I have neighbors who hunt out coyote packs for fun.

    But mostly what I have is 150 miles between me and the nearest of anything you could call hood rats, and in a SHTF or WMAHAWNGTIAM scenario they wouldn't survive the first 20.

    Well, I have long guns. I have a generator. I have neighbors who hunt out coyote packs for fun.

    But mostly what I have is 150 miles between me and the nearest of anything you could call hood rats, and in a SHTF or WMAHAWNGTIAM scenario they wouldn’t survive the first 20.

    Admirable.

    I was thinking along your town being besieged by …….somebody.

    Anyway.
    Some other time, perhaps.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational

    I was thinking along your town being besieged by …….somebody.
     
    UN blue helmets?  Chinese?  It sure isn't going to be fellow Americans; even today's diversified Army isn't going to take much in the way of sniper fire from locals who can doxx and kill their families before they decide it's not worth it.
  120. @Mr. Rational

    Food for thought: Self-organization. Local gangs working together with local communities. A lot of talent and expertise there.
     
    Local gangs working together?  HAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahaheeheeheeheehooooooo..... oh my aching sides....

    These are 85-IQ hood rats.  You are literally talking people who will shoot up funerals where their rivals are burying victims of the last drive-by; they are likely to shoot each other before even reaching defenders who've put roadblocks in front of their neighborhoods.  They will be WOEFULLY unprepared.  They MAY have ONE extra magazine for their handgun, but probably not more than a box of ammunition... and that will be hardball, not JHP.  Long guns, optical sights... no way.

    Deer hunters with their pals with spotting scopes will be able engage them from cover before they're even seen.  Semi-auto shotguns are vastly more powerful than a 40 S&W, let alone a 9mm.  And there are something like a MILLION deer hunters in Michigan alone.

    The wild card is the police and National Guard.  Deer hunters will have a hard time bringing themselves to shoot at men in uniform, so what matters is if they turn out or stay home to defend their families.  If the paychecks have gotten unreliable, they'll stay home.

    These are 85-IQ hood rats. You are literally talking people who will shoot up funerals where their rivals are burying victims of the last drive-by

    While I don’t think rival street gangs would cooperate readily, there are precedents, e.g. the L.A. Riots.

    Local gangs aren’t a potential problem because they are smart and capable. They are a concern, because they have ready-made internal cohesion, unity of command/purpose, willingness to engage in group violence decisively when needed, and so on. And they already possess a larger captive population base to tax and conscript for their purposes.

    In normal civilian American society, most people don’t have that kind of tightly-bound social organization to fall back on in extremis, except people such as Mormons and others with similarly shared values and ethos of preparation.

  121. @Mr. Rational

    To make the exercise easier, how about this:
    Play the opposite. Imagine YOU are besieged.

     
    Well, I have long guns.  I have a generator.  I have neighbors who hunt out coyote packs for fun.

    But mostly what I have is 150 miles between me and the nearest of anything you could call hood rats, and in a SHTF or WMAHAWNGTIAM scenario they wouldn't survive the first 20.

    Well, I have long guns. I have a generator. I have neighbors who hunt out coyote packs for fun.

    Internet survivalists are always on about how they are armed.

    Do you have a reliable water source that is defensible? Do you know how to use a trauma kit with Israeli bandages or otherwise have accessible medical care?

  122. @peterAUS

    I’m a part of a group of families with contingency plans for major infrastructure failures/disruptions. We keep tabs on the local Hispanic gangs. In the absence of government authority, they are the only potential major opposing forces of whom we are mindful.
     
    Compliments, really.

    How about you try to elevate your game?
    A bit different scenario (as in those comments to Mr Rational).
    If you feel like it, of course.

    At the moment I am sure you have it right at that level. Group of friends in distress, sort of.
    That's good, of course.

    Maybe thinking about helping wider community in similar distress wouldn't be a bad (intellectual) exercise. You could brainstorm it with your friends, even. Some of them anyway...hehe.
    Hell, you can even do a war game. Two sides ...you know the drill.

    How about you try to elevate your game?

    You don’t have a clue about what my “game” is, and your word salad reply is incoherent, at best.

    I’ll just reveal this much. I have a group of friends who own their own island. They invited me to join (and buy in), but I declined, because I have my own defensible community already.

    • Replies: @peterAUS

    ...your word salad reply is incoherent, at best....
     
    Good.

    ....I have my own defensible community already.
     
    Even better.

    Moving on.

  123. @Twinkie

    How about you try to elevate your game?
     
    You don’t have a clue about what my “game” is, and your word salad reply is incoherent, at best.

    I’ll just reveal this much. I have a group of friends who own their own island. They invited me to join (and buy in), but I declined, because I have my own defensible community already.

    …your word salad reply is incoherent, at best….

    Good.

    ….I have my own defensible community already.

    Even better.

    Moving on.

  124. @Johann Ricke

    Maybe thinking about helping wider community in similar distress wouldn’t be a bad (intellectual) exercise. You could brainstorm it with your friends, even. Some of them anyway…hehe.
    Hell, you can even do a war game. Two sides …you know the drill.
     
    I read somewhere that Mao Zedong treated two epic Ming dynasty classic novels - the Romance of the Three Kingdoms and the Water Margin - as operating manuals. Given that they were quasi-historical documents, that's not such a stretch. While practical ant's eye level skills are necessary, big picture decisions and maneuvers are also part of survival.

    I read somewhere that Mao Zedong treated two epic Ming dynasty classic novels – the Romance of the Three Kingdoms and the Water Margin – as operating manuals.

    I think you should take such a claim with more than a pinch of salt. Quasi-historical is right. They are entertaining books (though very long), to be sure, and are important parts of East Asian canon, but hardly offer anything more than very generalized lessons about war.

    By the way, isn’t Zhuge Liang a huge disappointment? He was supposed to be this grand strategic genius nonpareil, but what did he achieve?

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    I think you should take such a claim with more than a pinch of salt. Quasi-historical is right. They are entertaining books (though very long), to be sure, and are important parts of East Asian canon, but hardly offer anything more than very generalized lessons about war.

    By the way, isn’t Zhuge Liang a huge disappointment? He was supposed to be this grand strategic genius nonpareil, but what did he achieve?
     
    Ultimately, they're about palace intrigues rather than war. That's the macro part of survival. Obviously the age we live in is a PG-13 one and nothing like say, the Tang dynasty, where the co-founder whacked two siblings, liquidated their branches of the ruling clan (men, women and children) and forced his father to abdicate at swordpoint. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Taizong_of_Tang I have little doubt Mao absorbed a good chunk of the basic principles re scheming, getting to the top and staying there, from these novels.

    Re Zhuge Liang, his misfortune was in working for a man (Liu Bei) who was (1) low-born, (2) not the sharpest knife in the drawer and (3) given to impulsive and sentimental acts. But the latter characteristic is precisely why Liu Bei and his two siblings via blood pact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_brother are the heroes of the novel in a way they were never portrayed in official histories. Cao Cao not only had the advantage of being a brilliant strategist in his own right, he was to the manor born and had significant resources of his own, thanks to his family background. These advantages gave him enough of an edge to overrun much of Northeast Asia's prime real estate - the developed and wealthy parts, vs the Wu (Sun Quan) and the Shu (Liu Bei), both of which were in marginal parts of the collapsed Han Empire. That is why both Wu and Shu attacked ferociously and often in the early phases of Cao Cao's initial conquest of his domain - once Cao Cao consolidated his hold on that territory, it was only a matter of time before he eliminated Wu and Shu from the chessboard.

    Zhuge Liang's problem was not only that his boss had a late start - it was also that he had the least productive of the 3 territories, and a good chunk of that consisted of terra nova minimally developed by the barbarians who inhabited it. That's on top of periodic barbarian revolts that presumably soaked up men and resources.

    The author is presumed to have been a failed candidate for the mandarinate. I can't speak for him but I expect this David vs Goliath aspect, where David loses, but only after putting up a good fight, is what caught his attention. Cao Cao's Wei had a population 5 times of the Liu Bei's Shu and almost 2x of Sun Quan's Wu. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Kingdoms Short of catastrophic mistakes on Cao Cao's or Sun Quan's part, the final outcome was not in doubt. Picture the odds if Germany's population size and land area had been switched with Russia's, while keeping its significant edge in relative development. Germany would have won WWII in a walk. Zhuge Liang only had a chance if Cao Cao's Wei picked incompetents to lead his frontier defense. With a handful of exceptions Cao Cao never did.
  125. @peterAUS

    Well, I have long guns. I have a generator. I have neighbors who hunt out coyote packs for fun.

    But mostly what I have is 150 miles between me and the nearest of anything you could call hood rats, and in a SHTF or WMAHAWNGTIAM scenario they wouldn’t survive the first 20.
     
    Admirable.

    I was thinking along your town being besieged by .......somebody.

    Anyway.
    Some other time, perhaps.

    I was thinking along your town being besieged by …….somebody.

    UN blue helmets?  Chinese?  It sure isn’t going to be fellow Americans; even today’s diversified Army isn’t going to take much in the way of sniper fire from locals who can doxx and kill their families before they decide it’s not worth it.

    • Replies: @peterAUS

    It sure isn’t going to be fellow Americans....
     
    O.K.
  126. @Cloudbuster
    I don't think any of those solutions will work in the long run, especially not maternity pay.

    We need to destroy the norm of the two-income family. My view on women in the workplace echoes Hillary Clinton's one-time position on abortion: it should be safe, legal and rare.

    That would drive up the market value of men in the workplace, give children the benefit of a dedicated, nurturing parent at home and strengthen communities -- because it takes someone in the community actually being home and in the community to build it.

    Needless to say, you'd also have to do away with no fault divorce and make single mothers the pariahs they deserve to be.

    Coming after women in the workforce directly is a non-starter. Something like a stipend of $1000 month for married mothers who forgo employment until the child is five years old would probably be a better approach. It’s not much of an incentive for high-earning–and thus generally highly skilled–women, but for women doing menial labor or monotonous white-collar work who are aren’t economically critical, it makes the decision to have a child less of a financial hardship.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational

    Something like a stipend of $1000 month for married mothers who forgo employment until the child is five years old would probably be a better approach.
     
    You're going to have to have pre-baby wage and educational qualifications for this or you're just going to get all the Angel Adamses of the country to do some paperwork... and you know they'll have plenty of (((assistance))) with that paperwork.
  127. @MikeatMikedotMike
    "You could shorten your list however to:"

    That's true. Those things in effect would result in some of the other points by design.

    "Let the States have welfare or not, restrict population (on any basis) or not, condone abortion or not, in a competitive environment. Let the winners enjoy the fruits of their victory and the losers suffer the consequences of their failures."

    I agree with this - but an unforeseen consequence that must be addressed is that of foolish whites voting in the very policies that turned their communities into Baltimore, and then fleeing those communities only to again vote for the same policies that turned their latest destination into another Baltimore. Especially if the NQ isn't going to be addressed directly.

    Limitations on new resident voting would have to be applied, not only to prevent the above but also to incentivize people to apply forethought to their voting habits, in terms of investing in the long term future of their communities. For example, if I'm a left-ish do-gooding egalitarian gape faced neck bearded hipster from the north side of Chicago who loves all people equally because all people are equal, but now I have a newborn and I'm not so sure I want him/her to attend a Chicago public school with all of those angry African Americans who have every right to hate whitey because of how hard we work to try to seem not racist, maybe I'll move to Boise, Idaho with anther 10 or 15 thousand families who think just like me and obliviously start voting for the same policies that resulted in the situation that had me leaving Chicago to begin with. I'm open to anything from a 10 year wait and up on newly interstate relocated citizens. We can also increase the minimum voting age to 25.

    I'm also not against changing the voting parameters to include only married hetero couples with children. One vote per intact family. Everybody attends the polling place in order to cast a ballot.

    Voting is mistakenly defined as a right. It is a privilege that should not be taken for granted.

    "I’m skeptical that it’s at all possible to Make America Great Again as other commenters have more eloquently written."

    As am I. But it's a dreary Sunday afternoon and there's little else to do but have a cup of coffee and pontificate about such things.

    A good abstract conversation-starter on the subject of voting is, “What is more important to you: The ability to vote or having good government?”

    • Replies: @Talha
    Wow - excellent question!

    Peace.
  128. @peterAUS

    If the mid-west separates then California and the Left Nation will insist on open borders and more world immigration to the mid-west. They will not tolerate a majority gentile nation anywhere. Nebraska will be sanctioned like South Africa.
     
    Insist they can do. Wouldn't know about the"sanctioned" part, though.
    Not easy to sanction a nuclear superpower. Caveat: that entity must have an access to Pacific (NOT landlocked).
    So, then, you have, a least, say......several boomers and attack (nuclear) submarines, the works. Just that.
    Nahh, I just don't see anybody sanctioning that country (Mid-West with access to Pacific). Hehe..actually, could see that country sanctioning the rest.

    Any break up of the USA will be violent in the extreme.
     
    The Question.
    Nobody knows.
    A thought: if those dumb Russkies (relax, towarsich....) could split USSR without major parts getting violent, why much smarter Anglos couldn't do even better? Skirmish here and there, Chechnya type, not a problem in a big scheme of things.

    It may be dangerously naive, but I think violence in dissolution is unlikely, especially if it follows a currency crisis–something that is coming and that, for my money, is the most likely catalyst for said dissolution. Yeah, messianic progressivism could be an issue down the road, but in the shorter term, Blueistan will be thrilled to be able to have total political dominance within the confines of Blueistan.

    • Replies: @peterAUS

    It may be dangerously naive, but I think violence in dissolution is unlikely...
     
    Yep for the former; definitely disagree with the later.
    , @iffen
    Blueistan will be thrilled to be able to have total political dominance within the confines of Blueistan.

    Why do you think that when our entire history indicates otherwise? Hell, they are not even close to being satisfied with "correcting" bad thinking countries the world over.
  129. @Mr. Rational

    I was thinking along your town being besieged by …….somebody.
     
    UN blue helmets?  Chinese?  It sure isn't going to be fellow Americans; even today's diversified Army isn't going to take much in the way of sniper fire from locals who can doxx and kill their families before they decide it's not worth it.

    It sure isn’t going to be fellow Americans….

    O.K.

  130. @SunBakedSuburb
    " ... political dissolution is probably inevitable."

    It won't be the POC hordes who'll agitate for political divorce. Despite the constant cries of victimhood, they've got it good here. It'll be a white minority, that is, a minority faction within the Euro American population, that'll be the catalyst for separation. But I don't think such a thing is possible. The United States is going to degenerate into a society with a social credit regime for the plebeians, coupled with external and internal monitoring, with freedom, both in movement and thought, reserved for the top levels of the pyramid. Or maybe it'll be the Brave New World of a population narcotized by chemicals and illusions as envisioned by Aldous Huxley. Maybe the future USA will be a combination of both. Either way, the future is grim. Especially for born evil Whitey.

    It’s a depressing thing to dwell on, but there is plenty of evidence now–lower sex rates for younger people on account of video game cocooning and porn, drug use, millennials living at home into their thirties, etc. What happens when sexbots really get going? Brave New World is closer to the dystopian reality of the future than 1984 is, I think.

    • Replies: @Talha
    Huxley’s horse is definitely coming in ahead of Orwell’s.

    Orgy, porgy gives release...

    Peace.
  131. @Audacious Epigone
    It may be dangerously naive, but I think violence in dissolution is unlikely, especially if it follows a currency crisis--something that is coming and that, for my money, is the most likely catalyst for said dissolution. Yeah, messianic progressivism could be an issue down the road, but in the shorter term, Blueistan will be thrilled to be able to have total political dominance within the confines of Blueistan.

    It may be dangerously naive, but I think violence in dissolution is unlikely…

    Yep for the former; definitely disagree with the later.

  132. @Stan d Mute
    If States have rights not explicitly granted to FedGov in the Constitution, as the 10th says, why would Idaho have to accept any former Chicongoan? You trashed your home and now want to move into my home? That’s funny! Beat it.

    The Founders understood the dangers of universalism, far better than the majority do today. A retard can vote. Literally. I know someone with Down Syndrome who can neither read nor write, cannot do any math whatsoever, functions as a 2-3 year old toddler, yet is a registered voter (and I suspect he has voted - as a Democrat). Increasing the voting age is a problem if we are to send 18 year olds to war. I think war (foreign), in particular, should have special voting allowed only to those who will be sent and their parents. But for regular voting the sensible test is whether one produces more in tax remittances than one collects in government benefits of any type. No more voting for one’s own paycheck or handouts. Further restriction to those actually invested in the future, ie parents, also makes sense. He who pays the bills decides. No more leeches voting, no more retards, no more dementia afflicted geezers.

    A dream, no more, when half the nation already drinks more from the public trough than it pours into it.

    Restricting voting to net taxpayers who are married with children would be eminently sensible. It has a snowball’s chance in hell of happening, of course. The electoral ratchet only moves in one direction–towards more and more suffrage (non-citizens, felons, etc).

  133. @Cloudbuster
    It took 2 generations (from the 1924 large-curtailment to 1965) to assimlate the same ratio of newcomers*

    How assimilated were they, really? The turn-of-the-century immigrants changed the political landscape forever and made the next big immigration push possible.

    Yep, that’s true. The country was changed – I don’t think the immigration push was inevitable at that point, though, due to that. The same people that fought the immigration law of 1924 (which was, of course passed anyway, and signed by one of my favorite Presidents, Silent Cal), just kept on fighting fighting right on up through 1965, or hell, today.

    I will say that by 30 years after that immigration act, the country was pretty united. Then came the mid-1960’s…

  134. @Audacious Epigone
    A good abstract conversation-starter on the subject of voting is, "What is more important to you: The ability to vote or having good government?"

    Wow – excellent question!

    Peace.

  135. @Mr. Rational

    The difference now is that almost all of the newcomers are from parts much more foreign in culture and genetics.
     
    True.  It used to be the case that 1/3 of legal immigrants failed to make it in the US and went back home.  For the current crop that should be more like 90%, and return should be mandatory for the likes of Somalis.  AAMOF the entry of Somalis and their ilk to the USA should be prohibited save for diplomatic personnel.

    Somalians are as close to aliens as you can get without visiting Area 51 or smoking doobies while watching the X-files.

    They’re out there … all over Minneagadishu.

  136. @Audacious Epigone
    It's a depressing thing to dwell on, but there is plenty of evidence now--lower sex rates for younger people on account of video game cocooning and porn, drug use, millennials living at home into their thirties, etc. What happens when sexbots really get going? Brave New World is closer to the dystopian reality of the future than 1984 is, I think.

    Huxley’s horse is definitely coming in ahead of Orwell’s.

    Orgy, porgy gives release…

    Peace.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  137. @Mr. Rational

    Wouldn’t be so simple, I guess.
     
    It depends how much forethought the countryside puts into things, and how brutal it's willing to be.

    Take the blue pustule of Detoilet.  It would be no huge trick to cut off all electric, gas, water and phone service to it in the middle of winter; do this with a blizzard on the way and hijack the plow trucks, and the number of muds able to get out at all would be a few thousand at most.  You stop the first few coming out in vehicles and leave their burned vehicle shells as roadblocks.  That puts them on foot.  Doing this several levels deep makes certain they can't just steal a vehicle and head out again.

    There they are:  no heat, no water besides what's in their water heaters and toilet tanks (which they have probably flushed already), everything freezing rapidly, no food other than what ready-to-eat stuff they have on hand and no way to cook anything else, only the fuel in their vehicle fuel tanks (which isn't much because otherwise their homies would siphon it), no way to pump gas, probably no real cold-weather gear so they can't even walk out.  The ones who have gasoline and generators or grills and charcoal mostly die of CO poisoning from using them indoors to stay warm.  The rest die of hypothermia, the fastest from setting their houses on fire and winding up out in the weather, the rest over a few days.

    Once the flow to the seige lines tapers off, you go in and check for resistance.  You firebomb most buildings where you get any, saving only what's important.  You clean up with bulldozers later.  You'd be done by mid-summer and have cleaned up most of a state.  Seriously, Winter-Chan would be a far more powerful weapon against "sun people" than you would ever believe.

    Schoolmarm disapproves of:

    “muds”

    It’s dehumanizing. Thanks in advance!

    • Replies: @iffen
    May I still refer to sewer pond scum Romney?

    If the truth can't be racist, how can ... nevermind.

    I agree with your knuckle-rapping. I've actually tried to wanted to thought about staying out of the mud; I'm just not any good at it.

    , @Mr. Rational
    I can't tell if you're serious or not.
  138. @Audacious Epigone
    Coming after women in the workforce directly is a non-starter. Something like a stipend of $1000 month for married mothers who forgo employment until the child is five years old would probably be a better approach. It's not much of an incentive for high-earning--and thus generally highly skilled--women, but for women doing menial labor or monotonous white-collar work who are aren't economically critical, it makes the decision to have a child less of a financial hardship.

    Something like a stipend of $1000 month for married mothers who forgo employment until the child is five years old would probably be a better approach.

    You’re going to have to have pre-baby wage and educational qualifications for this or you’re just going to get all the Angel Adamses of the country to do some paperwork… and you know they’ll have plenty of (((assistance))) with that paperwork.

  139. @Kevin O'Keeffe
    Yes, I'd say this is about right. This is the minimum that's necessary. It won't necessarily be sufficient, but there's no way to avoid being torn asunder without at least achieving this trio of of goals.

    Great to hear from you, sir. It’s been awhile!

  140. @Twinkie

    I read somewhere that Mao Zedong treated two epic Ming dynasty classic novels – the Romance of the Three Kingdoms and the Water Margin – as operating manuals.
     
    I think you should take such a claim with more than a pinch of salt. Quasi-historical is right. They are entertaining books (though very long), to be sure, and are important parts of East Asian canon, but hardly offer anything more than very generalized lessons about war.

    By the way, isn’t Zhuge Liang a huge disappointment? He was supposed to be this grand strategic genius nonpareil, but what did he achieve?

    I think you should take such a claim with more than a pinch of salt. Quasi-historical is right. They are entertaining books (though very long), to be sure, and are important parts of East Asian canon, but hardly offer anything more than very generalized lessons about war.

    By the way, isn’t Zhuge Liang a huge disappointment? He was supposed to be this grand strategic genius nonpareil, but what did he achieve?

    Ultimately, they’re about palace intrigues rather than war. That’s the macro part of survival. Obviously the age we live in is a PG-13 one and nothing like say, the Tang dynasty, where the co-founder whacked two siblings, liquidated their branches of the ruling clan (men, women and children) and forced his father to abdicate at swordpoint. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Taizong_of_Tang I have little doubt Mao absorbed a good chunk of the basic principles re scheming, getting to the top and staying there, from these novels.

    Re Zhuge Liang, his misfortune was in working for a man (Liu Bei) who was (1) low-born, (2) not the sharpest knife in the drawer and (3) given to impulsive and sentimental acts. But the latter characteristic is precisely why Liu Bei and his two siblings via blood pact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_brother are the heroes of the novel in a way they were never portrayed in official histories. Cao Cao not only had the advantage of being a brilliant strategist in his own right, he was to the manor born and had significant resources of his own, thanks to his family background. These advantages gave him enough of an edge to overrun much of Northeast Asia’s prime real estate – the developed and wealthy parts, vs the Wu (Sun Quan) and the Shu (Liu Bei), both of which were in marginal parts of the collapsed Han Empire. That is why both Wu and Shu attacked ferociously and often in the early phases of Cao Cao’s initial conquest of his domain – once Cao Cao consolidated his hold on that territory, it was only a matter of time before he eliminated Wu and Shu from the chessboard.

    Zhuge Liang’s problem was not only that his boss had a late start – it was also that he had the least productive of the 3 territories, and a good chunk of that consisted of terra nova minimally developed by the barbarians who inhabited it. That’s on top of periodic barbarian revolts that presumably soaked up men and resources.

    The author is presumed to have been a failed candidate for the mandarinate. I can’t speak for him but I expect this David vs Goliath aspect, where David loses, but only after putting up a good fight, is what caught his attention. Cao Cao’s Wei had a population 5 times of the Liu Bei’s Shu and almost 2x of Sun Quan’s Wu. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Kingdoms Short of catastrophic mistakes on Cao Cao’s or Sun Quan’s part, the final outcome was not in doubt. Picture the odds if Germany’s population size and land area had been switched with Russia’s, while keeping its significant edge in relative development. Germany would have won WWII in a walk. Zhuge Liang only had a chance if Cao Cao’s Wei picked incompetents to lead his frontier defense. With a handful of exceptions Cao Cao never did.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    But Cao Cao lost in the end, too. He never unified the country, and his kingdom was usurped by the Sima clan whose Jin Dynasty also disintegrated eventually.

    I suppose that’s the ultimate lesson about unleashing bloody chaos. Everyone loses. Was it Cicero who said, “Let us fight all other peoples of the world, but avoid civil strife”?
  141. @Johann Ricke

    I think you should take such a claim with more than a pinch of salt. Quasi-historical is right. They are entertaining books (though very long), to be sure, and are important parts of East Asian canon, but hardly offer anything more than very generalized lessons about war.

    By the way, isn’t Zhuge Liang a huge disappointment? He was supposed to be this grand strategic genius nonpareil, but what did he achieve?
     
    Ultimately, they're about palace intrigues rather than war. That's the macro part of survival. Obviously the age we live in is a PG-13 one and nothing like say, the Tang dynasty, where the co-founder whacked two siblings, liquidated their branches of the ruling clan (men, women and children) and forced his father to abdicate at swordpoint. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Taizong_of_Tang I have little doubt Mao absorbed a good chunk of the basic principles re scheming, getting to the top and staying there, from these novels.

    Re Zhuge Liang, his misfortune was in working for a man (Liu Bei) who was (1) low-born, (2) not the sharpest knife in the drawer and (3) given to impulsive and sentimental acts. But the latter characteristic is precisely why Liu Bei and his two siblings via blood pact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_brother are the heroes of the novel in a way they were never portrayed in official histories. Cao Cao not only had the advantage of being a brilliant strategist in his own right, he was to the manor born and had significant resources of his own, thanks to his family background. These advantages gave him enough of an edge to overrun much of Northeast Asia's prime real estate - the developed and wealthy parts, vs the Wu (Sun Quan) and the Shu (Liu Bei), both of which were in marginal parts of the collapsed Han Empire. That is why both Wu and Shu attacked ferociously and often in the early phases of Cao Cao's initial conquest of his domain - once Cao Cao consolidated his hold on that territory, it was only a matter of time before he eliminated Wu and Shu from the chessboard.

    Zhuge Liang's problem was not only that his boss had a late start - it was also that he had the least productive of the 3 territories, and a good chunk of that consisted of terra nova minimally developed by the barbarians who inhabited it. That's on top of periodic barbarian revolts that presumably soaked up men and resources.

    The author is presumed to have been a failed candidate for the mandarinate. I can't speak for him but I expect this David vs Goliath aspect, where David loses, but only after putting up a good fight, is what caught his attention. Cao Cao's Wei had a population 5 times of the Liu Bei's Shu and almost 2x of Sun Quan's Wu. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Kingdoms Short of catastrophic mistakes on Cao Cao's or Sun Quan's part, the final outcome was not in doubt. Picture the odds if Germany's population size and land area had been switched with Russia's, while keeping its significant edge in relative development. Germany would have won WWII in a walk. Zhuge Liang only had a chance if Cao Cao's Wei picked incompetents to lead his frontier defense. With a handful of exceptions Cao Cao never did.

    But Cao Cao lost in the end, too. He never unified the country, and his kingdom was usurped by the Sima clan whose Jin Dynasty also disintegrated eventually.

    I suppose that’s the ultimate lesson about unleashing bloody chaos. Everyone loses. Was it Cicero who said, “Let us fight all other peoples of the world, but avoid civil strife”?

  142. @Twinkie
    You got me completely backwards. Most long-time readers on Unz know that I am:

    1. A Judo and BJJ black belt (practiced Judo for 40+ years and BJJ for 20+ years).

    2. A big fan of combat sports, including MMA. I went to see two very early UFCs in person with my wife. I watch no other sport, but I watch Judo, BJJ, boxing, K-1, etc. Even Sumo, Mongolian folk wrestling, and Chidaoba.

    3. I’m a totally crazy gun nut. I find the NRA to be too moderate and belong to GOA (whose founder I know in person).

    4. I hunt regularly. You would note that my comment count drops off dramatically during the early part of the seasons until I hit my limits.

    5. I used to work in CT overseas. I watched one of my best friends and team member die in front of my eyes.

    Any advice on how to get into CT as a young guy? I’m applying directly. Did that work out for you or would you prefer to have spent some time in the regulars first?

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Any advice on how to get into CT as a young guy?
     
    It would be helpful if you could specify what subset of CT you are interested. E.g. analysis, technical (with its own many subfields), investigations, paramilitary/direct action, foreign interface, etc.

    I’m applying directly. Did that work out for you or would you prefer to have spent some time in the regulars first?
     
    I had prior experience in related fields, both overseas and in the States. Two big legs up for me: I was a linguist and I had excellent contacts.

    If you can, try to find a mentor in the field you are interested. It’s human nature - we all tend to rate those we like or respect highly/more competent and want to work with such people.
  143. @Audacious Epigone
    It may be dangerously naive, but I think violence in dissolution is unlikely, especially if it follows a currency crisis--something that is coming and that, for my money, is the most likely catalyst for said dissolution. Yeah, messianic progressivism could be an issue down the road, but in the shorter term, Blueistan will be thrilled to be able to have total political dominance within the confines of Blueistan.

    Blueistan will be thrilled to be able to have total political dominance within the confines of Blueistan.

    Why do you think that when our entire history indicates otherwise? Hell, they are not even close to being satisfied with “correcting” bad thinking countries the world over.

    • Replies: @peterAUS

    Why do you think that when our entire history indicates otherwise? Hell, they are not even close to being satisfied with “correcting” bad thinking countries the world over.
     
    Yep.

    A question for you, if I may.

    There is almost zero interest for the topic of "white self-determination" within “deplorable”/Alt-right sphere in USA.

    Any theory as to why?

    I gather that even those aware of the problem seek to solve it through capturing the current state power. The problem being demographics and displacement, to start with.That's admirable, of course. Voting and such I mean.
    Having said that, shouldn't at least somebody start thinking about Plan B?

    Or, it's simply too early to ask the question at this stage.
    I guess that good time to ask would be three years from now. Failing that, I guess, seven.

    Any thoughts about above?
  144. @Audacious Epigone
    Schoolmarm disapproves of:

    "muds"

    It's dehumanizing. Thanks in advance!

    May I still refer to sewer pond scum Romney?

    If the truth can’t be racist, how can … nevermind.

    I agree with your knuckle-rapping. I’ve actually tried to wanted to thought about staying out of the mud; I’m just not any good at it.

  145. @Audacious Epigone
    Schoolmarm disapproves of:

    "muds"

    It's dehumanizing. Thanks in advance!

    I can’t tell if you’re serious or not.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    You're a thoughtful, perspicacious guy. These threads are full of insights. I don't think we do the ourselves any favors by making it impossible for people to recommend the posts/comments at Unz to friends or colleagues.
  146. @iffen
    Blueistan will be thrilled to be able to have total political dominance within the confines of Blueistan.

    Why do you think that when our entire history indicates otherwise? Hell, they are not even close to being satisfied with "correcting" bad thinking countries the world over.

    Why do you think that when our entire history indicates otherwise? Hell, they are not even close to being satisfied with “correcting” bad thinking countries the world over.

    Yep.

    A question for you, if I may.

    There is almost zero interest for the topic of “white self-determination” within “deplorable”/Alt-right sphere in USA.

    Any theory as to why?

    I gather that even those aware of the problem seek to solve it through capturing the current state power. The problem being demographics and displacement, to start with.That’s admirable, of course. Voting and such I mean.
    Having said that, shouldn’t at least somebody start thinking about Plan B?

    Or, it’s simply too early to ask the question at this stage.
    I guess that good time to ask would be three years from now. Failing that, I guess, seven.

    Any thoughts about above?

    • Replies: @iffen
    I gather that even those aware of the problem seek to solve it through capturing the current state power.

    I think that support for WN in any form among “normal” white Americans is miniscule. I suspect that many are media creations and/or provocateurs and these have an outsized influence. A WN trying to take over the government is an existential threat and has to be dealt with; a WN that wants like-minded people to move to Idaho, not so much.

    See?

  147. Adding to my previous post, re the title. How about we step back and take a big picture?

    “Saving the Union”.
    That’s great. Providing that the “saved” Union is what “we” want. “We”, I assume, are the people of European roots who aren’t quite happy how all this around us works. Let’s call them, “us”, “deplorables” from now on.
    So, the Plan A is to capture the (tremendous) state power and then get what we want, need, whatever. That’s a great plan. Execution doesn’t appear to be that great, though. More importantly, doesn’t look as “we” have a lot of time to have that executed. Demographics.
    So, the bottom line, shouldn’t somebody start thinking: “Well, you know,maybe saving the Union isn’t actually a very good idea? How about we start thinking about Plan B?”

    Granted, most of “deplorables” can’t do it. I mean, they can’t plan anything. They simply want a Savior who’ll deliver them what they want. That’s fine.
    What isn’t so fine is that tiny minority of somewhat smart people within the mass of “deplorables” don’t see any need for that Plan B.
    That’s, for me, sort of a little puzzle I’ve been trying to figure out recently.
    Of course I have a theory or two.
    No, I don’t much buy a fear of that overwhelming power of the “opposition”. Goes a bit deeper than that I feel.

    So, anyone cares to chime in about above?

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    No one can think of a Plan B that is better than the status quo or, at least, not one that is better enough than the status quo to be worth the effort; especially given the emotional expenditure required to move on from plan A.

    In fact, I'd go further and say that America is still a lot more than the sum of its parts and, even a peaceable dissolution, would cost the vast majority of Americans a great deal, at least in the medium term.

    Furthermore, the opportunity cost to the effort required for dissolution is instead potentially achieving incremental improvements

    It is all a lot of risky effort for a reward that is pretty ambiguous...

    A small digression:

    This is why I don't like to criticise overheated rhetoric too much as some of it is motivational. It only really annoys me when others read that rhetoric enough, take it to be true, and then build an overheated case on top of that.

    This takes dissidents into the crazy zone and ordinary people notice.

    Example of overheated rhetoric: the media hates white people.

    Truth: the media indulges some people indulging in resentment of white people in a way that they never do for any other group.

    Example of overheated rhetoric built on top of overheated rhetoric pretending to be argument and then layered again: the media hates white people, therefore they must be trying to kill white people, therefore they must die.

    Now, the first example is a loose and hyperbolic way to express the truth and is ordinary political speech.

    The problem is that things just aren't that bad (perhaps yet) so people feel the need to massively exaggerate their description of how bad it is to motivate themselves (and others). Yet most people, easily recognising that things just aren't that bad, and not being prone to politicised hyperbole built on politicised hyperbole end up pretty confused; and people don't like to be confused! They tend to get angry with those who are confusing them.

    I notice that this sort of spiral from hyperbole into hyperbole built on that hyperbole and so on, is happening in a lot of different ideological areas. In this way, you have the propagation of a lot of competing, ever more extreme, false narratives. That progressives own the media has caused their spiral to happen faster, and has added fuel to the rightward spiral. Opposing spirals justify each other.

    I suppose an identitarian of any kind may then well argue that this is inevitable, and use that inevitability as a solid argument for dissolution on whatever identitarian lines they hold to. I'm unconvinced that it is inevitable personally. Indeed, I'm generally sceptical of arguments that rest on some sort of teleogical inevitability as their justification for political revolution of any kind. After all, wouldn't a positive argument be better? Also, human sociological prediction has an awful track record, unless made very simple - like, unfortunately, babies born now roughly equals 20 year old adults in 20 years' time.

    Obviously, there are positive cases made for all contemporary ideological streams as well.
  148. @peterAUS

    Why do you think that when our entire history indicates otherwise? Hell, they are not even close to being satisfied with “correcting” bad thinking countries the world over.
     
    Yep.

    A question for you, if I may.

    There is almost zero interest for the topic of "white self-determination" within “deplorable”/Alt-right sphere in USA.

    Any theory as to why?

    I gather that even those aware of the problem seek to solve it through capturing the current state power. The problem being demographics and displacement, to start with.That's admirable, of course. Voting and such I mean.
    Having said that, shouldn't at least somebody start thinking about Plan B?

    Or, it's simply too early to ask the question at this stage.
    I guess that good time to ask would be three years from now. Failing that, I guess, seven.

    Any thoughts about above?

    I gather that even those aware of the problem seek to solve it through capturing the current state power.

    I think that support for WN in any form among “normal” white Americans is miniscule. I suspect that many are media creations and/or provocateurs and these have an outsized influence. A WN trying to take over the government is an existential threat and has to be dealt with; a WN that wants like-minded people to move to Idaho, not so much.

    See?

    • Replies: @peterAUS

    I think that support for WN in any form among “normal” white Americans is miniscule.
     
    Of course.

    My question still, remains:
    Why among WNs there is little support for "self-determination"?

    WN trying to take over the government is an existential threat and has to be dealt with; a WN that wants like-minded people to move to Idaho, not so much.
     
    Yeah. Even County government. I know. Hahaha...of course it is a threat. Not as voting, tweeting and such. I do get that.

    The question still, remains:
    WNs moving to Idaho and some other states and then establishing the thing. You could start from strong autonomy, through confederation to full independence.

    Or, bottom line: why the same process which has been extremely successful around the world, often even bloody supported by USA itself, can't even register in those circles?
    Like: "look there in Ukraine". Or dozen of other places of this world since '89.

    Hehe..I am sure you are cynical enough to state the obvious. Give it a shot.
  149. @peterAUS
    Adding to my previous post, re the title. How about we step back and take a big picture?

    "Saving the Union".
    That's great. Providing that the "saved" Union is what "we" want. "We", I assume, are the people of European roots who aren't quite happy how all this around us works. Let's call them, "us", "deplorables" from now on.
    So, the Plan A is to capture the (tremendous) state power and then get what we want, need, whatever. That's a great plan. Execution doesn't appear to be that great, though. More importantly, doesn't look as "we" have a lot of time to have that executed. Demographics.
    So, the bottom line, shouldn't somebody start thinking: "Well, you know,maybe saving the Union isn't actually a very good idea? How about we start thinking about Plan B?"

    Granted, most of "deplorables" can't do it. I mean, they can't plan anything. They simply want a Savior who'll deliver them what they want. That's fine.
    What isn't so fine is that tiny minority of somewhat smart people within the mass of "deplorables" don't see any need for that Plan B.
    That's, for me, sort of a little puzzle I've been trying to figure out recently.
    Of course I have a theory or two.
    No, I don't much buy a fear of that overwhelming power of the "opposition". Goes a bit deeper than that I feel.

    So, anyone cares to chime in about above?

    No one can think of a Plan B that is better than the status quo or, at least, not one that is better enough than the status quo to be worth the effort; especially given the emotional expenditure required to move on from plan A.

    In fact, I’d go further and say that America is still a lot more than the sum of its parts and, even a peaceable dissolution, would cost the vast majority of Americans a great deal, at least in the medium term.

    Furthermore, the opportunity cost to the effort required for dissolution is instead potentially achieving incremental improvements

    It is all a lot of risky effort for a reward that is pretty ambiguous…

    A small digression:

    This is why I don’t like to criticise overheated rhetoric too much as some of it is motivational. It only really annoys me when others read that rhetoric enough, take it to be true, and then build an overheated case on top of that.

    This takes dissidents into the crazy zone and ordinary people notice.

    Example of overheated rhetoric: the media hates white people.

    Truth: the media indulges some people indulging in resentment of white people in a way that they never do for any other group.

    Example of overheated rhetoric built on top of overheated rhetoric pretending to be argument and then layered again: the media hates white people, therefore they must be trying to kill white people, therefore they must die.

    Now, the first example is a loose and hyperbolic way to express the truth and is ordinary political speech.

    The problem is that things just aren’t that bad (perhaps yet) so people feel the need to massively exaggerate their description of how bad it is to motivate themselves (and others). Yet most people, easily recognising that things just aren’t that bad, and not being prone to politicised hyperbole built on politicised hyperbole end up pretty confused; and people don’t like to be confused! They tend to get angry with those who are confusing them.

    I notice that this sort of spiral from hyperbole into hyperbole built on that hyperbole and so on, is happening in a lot of different ideological areas. In this way, you have the propagation of a lot of competing, ever more extreme, false narratives. That progressives own the media has caused their spiral to happen faster, and has added fuel to the rightward spiral. Opposing spirals justify each other.

    I suppose an identitarian of any kind may then well argue that this is inevitable, and use that inevitability as a solid argument for dissolution on whatever identitarian lines they hold to. I’m unconvinced that it is inevitable personally. Indeed, I’m generally sceptical of arguments that rest on some sort of teleogical inevitability as their justification for political revolution of any kind. After all, wouldn’t a positive argument be better? Also, human sociological prediction has an awful track record, unless made very simple – like, unfortunately, babies born now roughly equals 20 year old adults in 20 years’ time.

    Obviously, there are positive cases made for all contemporary ideological streams as well.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    No one can think of a Plan B that is better than the status quo or, at least, not one that is better enough than the status quo to be worth the effort; especially given the emotional expenditure required to move on from plan A.

    In fact, I’d go further and say that America is still a lot more than the sum of its parts and, even a peaceable dissolution, would cost the vast majority of Americans a great deal, at least in the medium term.

    Furthermore, the opportunity cost to the effort required for dissolution is instead potentially achieving incremental improvements

    It is all a lot of risky effort for a reward that is pretty ambiguous…
     
    I hear you.

    Let's step back a bit.

    Do we agree that, if things go as they do, Whites in USA (the core USA) will be outvoted ALL the time in.....say....not more than seven years from now ? You know the type; those one can mock in mass media with ease. I call them "deplorables" and it's growing group. Middle class joining in droves.

    So, what will their future look like?
    Of course it's risk/reward. Everything in life is.

    My take is simple: without taking a risk things will go as they are. "Brasilisation" of USA.

    One could expect to see serious people at least starting to debate the issue.
    Nope.....
    People debate much more ludicrous things. Hehe...not this one.
    And that's.....interesting.

    And, yes, I do agree with:

    The problem is that things just aren’t that bad (perhaps yet) so people feel the need to massively exaggerate their description of how bad it is to motivate themselves (and others). Yet most people, easily recognising that things just aren’t that bad, and not being prone to politicised hyperbole built on politicised hyperbole end up pretty confused; and people don’t like to be confused! They tend to get angry with those who are confusing them.

     

    Having said that..hehe...no, things aren't that bad, YET. Will they be that bad or worse, in time, well, I believe it's given. I don't think that the Plan A will make it good. Maybe I am wrong. But, wouldn't be prudent to have Plan B shelved somewhere?
    Listen, I am quite aware that most people reading this haven't done serious project in their lives. That's fine.
    What puzzles me, a bit, is that serious people, in this case, also don't think about it. You know, objectives, goals, critical points, deliverable, TIMEFRAME, risks, RISK MANAGEMENT....stuff like that.

    After all, wouldn’t a positive argument be better?
     
    Let's hear it. I am all for it.
    Now, think what that "positive" would mean to "deplorables". You know, where "we" are heading it will be 80 % of society.

    And...hehe....there IS a thing about positive arguments. I know you know it.
    While we are discussing the positive argument the game, as it is, is going on. And then, one day...no argument anymore. No need for it. I mean..the "other" side doesn't have any need for it. It has all the numbers and the structure in place.
    Funny, a?

    So.......hehe...now one for you: would Israeli solution be good for say....France/Italy, just for a starter, just to get the thing rolling?
    You know....get all "those" in one place and manage them. Gaza strip etc.

    Because.....haha......it's not hard to imagine to have it other way around.
    Plenty of Whites in South Africa have some feel of it. Those in shanty towns/whatever.

    And, Serbs in Northern Kosovo. Yes, I know (what...who...where...), but, not so long ago THEY had the power there. Their SWATs would "knock" on the "other" door with impunity.
    Flip.....with US help, of course.
    Now it's the other way around.

    So, the bottom line: "we" keep debating. "They" keep getting numbers. The Plan A isn't working well. Nobody is thinking about Plan B.

    Great. Well...depending on which side one is.
  150. @iffen
    I gather that even those aware of the problem seek to solve it through capturing the current state power.

    I think that support for WN in any form among “normal” white Americans is miniscule. I suspect that many are media creations and/or provocateurs and these have an outsized influence. A WN trying to take over the government is an existential threat and has to be dealt with; a WN that wants like-minded people to move to Idaho, not so much.

    See?

    I think that support for WN in any form among “normal” white Americans is miniscule.

    Of course.

    My question still, remains:
    Why among WNs there is little support for “self-determination”?

    WN trying to take over the government is an existential threat and has to be dealt with; a WN that wants like-minded people to move to Idaho, not so much.

    Yeah. Even County government. I know. Hahaha…of course it is a threat. Not as voting, tweeting and such. I do get that.

    The question still, remains:
    WNs moving to Idaho and some other states and then establishing the thing. You could start from strong autonomy, through confederation to full independence.

    Or, bottom line: why the same process which has been extremely successful around the world, often even bloody supported by USA itself, can’t even register in those circles?
    Like: “look there in Ukraine”. Or dozen of other places of this world since ’89.

    Hehe..I am sure you are cynical enough to state the obvious. Give it a shot.

    • Replies: @iffen
    You want them to do a Great Trek, eh?

    Maybe some of the WNs here can give you a better answer. I’m not one and I’m just giving you my evaluation of the politics. There is very little there there. It is mostly a media creation used to keep the coalition of the fringes, as Sailer calls them, voting correctly. Very smart and soulless people like Terry McAuliffe create and/or manipulate media events like Charlottesville for political benefit. That’s why, even to this day; media features on Trump can play video of Charlottesville in the background.

  151. @Tyrion 2
    No one can think of a Plan B that is better than the status quo or, at least, not one that is better enough than the status quo to be worth the effort; especially given the emotional expenditure required to move on from plan A.

    In fact, I'd go further and say that America is still a lot more than the sum of its parts and, even a peaceable dissolution, would cost the vast majority of Americans a great deal, at least in the medium term.

    Furthermore, the opportunity cost to the effort required for dissolution is instead potentially achieving incremental improvements

    It is all a lot of risky effort for a reward that is pretty ambiguous...

    A small digression:

    This is why I don't like to criticise overheated rhetoric too much as some of it is motivational. It only really annoys me when others read that rhetoric enough, take it to be true, and then build an overheated case on top of that.

    This takes dissidents into the crazy zone and ordinary people notice.

    Example of overheated rhetoric: the media hates white people.

    Truth: the media indulges some people indulging in resentment of white people in a way that they never do for any other group.

    Example of overheated rhetoric built on top of overheated rhetoric pretending to be argument and then layered again: the media hates white people, therefore they must be trying to kill white people, therefore they must die.

    Now, the first example is a loose and hyperbolic way to express the truth and is ordinary political speech.

    The problem is that things just aren't that bad (perhaps yet) so people feel the need to massively exaggerate their description of how bad it is to motivate themselves (and others). Yet most people, easily recognising that things just aren't that bad, and not being prone to politicised hyperbole built on politicised hyperbole end up pretty confused; and people don't like to be confused! They tend to get angry with those who are confusing them.

    I notice that this sort of spiral from hyperbole into hyperbole built on that hyperbole and so on, is happening in a lot of different ideological areas. In this way, you have the propagation of a lot of competing, ever more extreme, false narratives. That progressives own the media has caused their spiral to happen faster, and has added fuel to the rightward spiral. Opposing spirals justify each other.

    I suppose an identitarian of any kind may then well argue that this is inevitable, and use that inevitability as a solid argument for dissolution on whatever identitarian lines they hold to. I'm unconvinced that it is inevitable personally. Indeed, I'm generally sceptical of arguments that rest on some sort of teleogical inevitability as their justification for political revolution of any kind. After all, wouldn't a positive argument be better? Also, human sociological prediction has an awful track record, unless made very simple - like, unfortunately, babies born now roughly equals 20 year old adults in 20 years' time.

    Obviously, there are positive cases made for all contemporary ideological streams as well.

    No one can think of a Plan B that is better than the status quo or, at least, not one that is better enough than the status quo to be worth the effort; especially given the emotional expenditure required to move on from plan A.

    In fact, I’d go further and say that America is still a lot more than the sum of its parts and, even a peaceable dissolution, would cost the vast majority of Americans a great deal, at least in the medium term.

    Furthermore, the opportunity cost to the effort required for dissolution is instead potentially achieving incremental improvements

    It is all a lot of risky effort for a reward that is pretty ambiguous…

    I hear you.

    Let’s step back a bit.

    Do we agree that, if things go as they do, Whites in USA (the core USA) will be outvoted ALL the time in…..say….not more than seven years from now ? You know the type; those one can mock in mass media with ease. I call them “deplorables” and it’s growing group. Middle class joining in droves.

    So, what will their future look like?
    Of course it’s risk/reward. Everything in life is.

    My take is simple: without taking a risk things will go as they are. “Brasilisation” of USA.

    One could expect to see serious people at least starting to debate the issue.
    Nope…..
    People debate much more ludicrous things. Hehe…not this one.
    And that’s…..interesting.

    And, yes, I do agree with:

    The problem is that things just aren’t that bad (perhaps yet) so people feel the need to massively exaggerate their description of how bad it is to motivate themselves (and others). Yet most people, easily recognising that things just aren’t that bad, and not being prone to politicised hyperbole built on politicised hyperbole end up pretty confused; and people don’t like to be confused! They tend to get angry with those who are confusing them.

    Having said that..hehe…no, things aren’t that bad, YET. Will they be that bad or worse, in time, well, I believe it’s given. I don’t think that the Plan A will make it good. Maybe I am wrong. But, wouldn’t be prudent to have Plan B shelved somewhere?
    Listen, I am quite aware that most people reading this haven’t done serious project in their lives. That’s fine.
    What puzzles me, a bit, is that serious people, in this case, also don’t think about it. You know, objectives, goals, critical points, deliverable, TIMEFRAME, risks, RISK MANAGEMENT….stuff like that.

    After all, wouldn’t a positive argument be better?

    Let’s hear it. I am all for it.
    Now, think what that “positive” would mean to “deplorables”. You know, where “we” are heading it will be 80 % of society.

    And…hehe….there IS a thing about positive arguments. I know you know it.
    While we are discussing the positive argument the game, as it is, is going on. And then, one day…no argument anymore. No need for it. I mean..the “other” side doesn’t have any need for it. It has all the numbers and the structure in place.
    Funny, a?

    So…….hehe…now one for you: would Israeli solution be good for say….France/Italy, just for a starter, just to get the thing rolling?
    You know….get all “those” in one place and manage them. Gaza strip etc.

    Because…..haha……it’s not hard to imagine to have it other way around.
    Plenty of Whites in South Africa have some feel of it. Those in shanty towns/whatever.

    And, Serbs in Northern Kosovo. Yes, I know (what…who…where…), but, not so long ago THEY had the power there. Their SWATs would “knock” on the “other” door with impunity.
    Flip…..with US help, of course.
    Now it’s the other way around.

    So, the bottom line: “we” keep debating. “They” keep getting numbers. The Plan A isn’t working well. Nobody is thinking about Plan B.

    Great. Well…depending on which side one is.

  152. @Career
    Any advice on how to get into CT as a young guy? I'm applying directly. Did that work out for you or would you prefer to have spent some time in the regulars first?

    Any advice on how to get into CT as a young guy?

    It would be helpful if you could specify what subset of CT you are interested. E.g. analysis, technical (with its own many subfields), investigations, paramilitary/direct action, foreign interface, etc.

    I’m applying directly. Did that work out for you or would you prefer to have spent some time in the regulars first?

    I had prior experience in related fields, both overseas and in the States. Two big legs up for me: I was a linguist and I had excellent contacts.

    If you can, try to find a mentor in the field you are interested. It’s human nature – we all tend to rate those we like or respect highly/more competent and want to work with such people.

    • Replies: @Career
    I was looking for something with impact, like paramilitary/direct action. I speak a couple of relevant foreign languages at a very high level too, which must help.

    Thank you for the rest of your advice. It is nice to know that I may not have to spend years with the regular military first. I'm not totally against it but as a high level athlete with Ivy League linguistic qualifications, I'll be hoping to skip this step.
  153. @peterAUS

    I think that support for WN in any form among “normal” white Americans is miniscule.
     
    Of course.

    My question still, remains:
    Why among WNs there is little support for "self-determination"?

    WN trying to take over the government is an existential threat and has to be dealt with; a WN that wants like-minded people to move to Idaho, not so much.
     
    Yeah. Even County government. I know. Hahaha...of course it is a threat. Not as voting, tweeting and such. I do get that.

    The question still, remains:
    WNs moving to Idaho and some other states and then establishing the thing. You could start from strong autonomy, through confederation to full independence.

    Or, bottom line: why the same process which has been extremely successful around the world, often even bloody supported by USA itself, can't even register in those circles?
    Like: "look there in Ukraine". Or dozen of other places of this world since '89.

    Hehe..I am sure you are cynical enough to state the obvious. Give it a shot.

    You want them to do a Great Trek, eh?

    Maybe some of the WNs here can give you a better answer. I’m not one and I’m just giving you my evaluation of the politics. There is very little there there. It is mostly a media creation used to keep the coalition of the fringes, as Sailer calls them, voting correctly. Very smart and soulless people like Terry McAuliffe create and/or manipulate media events like Charlottesville for political benefit. That’s why, even to this day; media features on Trump can play video of Charlottesville in the background.

    • Replies: @peterAUS

    You want them to do a Great Trek, eh?
     
    Of course not.
    I'd simply like to suggest those living in "bluestan" to start thinking about..ahm..."migrating".

    You know...haha.....internal "migrants" stuff. Open borders, "dreamers", the works, only this time it's "deplorables" moving inside their own country. O.K. inside the country they still believe it's their own.
    What a picture, a? Just imagine that.

    There is very little there there.
     
    Hehe....that's the very premise of this conversation.

    Well, as you say:

    Maybe some of the WNs here can give you a better answer.
     
    let's wait a bit and see...
  154. @Twinkie

    Any advice on how to get into CT as a young guy?
     
    It would be helpful if you could specify what subset of CT you are interested. E.g. analysis, technical (with its own many subfields), investigations, paramilitary/direct action, foreign interface, etc.

    I’m applying directly. Did that work out for you or would you prefer to have spent some time in the regulars first?
     
    I had prior experience in related fields, both overseas and in the States. Two big legs up for me: I was a linguist and I had excellent contacts.

    If you can, try to find a mentor in the field you are interested. It’s human nature - we all tend to rate those we like or respect highly/more competent and want to work with such people.

    I was looking for something with impact, like paramilitary/direct action. I speak a couple of relevant foreign languages at a very high level too, which must help.

    Thank you for the rest of your advice. It is nice to know that I may not have to spend years with the regular military first. I’m not totally against it but as a high level athlete with Ivy League linguistic qualifications, I’ll be hoping to skip this step.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Sorry to interrupt, guys. Apologies, really.
    This caught my eye:

    I was looking for something with impact, like paramilitary/direct action.
     
    You mean, bottom line, to get involved in CQB, as a...sniper....even an assaulter?

    If you were a person I cared for I'd say:"don't do it".
    If you are an average guy, I'd say the same.
    That simple.

    Now, if you were (are?) one of..... "those"...... guys, well...............there ARE posts, as we speak, where they'd love to have you in a team. Those being that 1 % of any society. I really assume you aren't one of them. Let's leave it there.

    You are aware that this conversation is just around that RED line on Internet.
    This is just not to have another IDIOT being killed or maimed for nothing in the middle of nowhere.

    O.K.
    How about you tell us here, if you want, that is, how EXACTLY you see your involvement?
    I assume it would be overseas. So...really.....what are you looking for?

    CT work, in Western countries, is done by the Tier 1 of Special Forces, from your Deltas/SEAL Team 6, through The Regiment, GIGN and similar outfits. Top people you simply don't belong.
    Their work is supported by top tier of regular military. Like, for The Regiment, Parachute Regiment/Commandos. Again, guys you simply don't belong too.

    In CT scenario/mission a civilian contractor/mercenary/paramilitary simply shouldn't be there. They simply don't belong. Direct action or whatever the Hell that means, I mean.

    Don't be...misguided. Just don't.
    , @Twinkie

    I was looking for something with impact, like paramilitary/direct action.
     
    There is high impact in several of the subfields I listed. Gunslinging is sexy-sounding, but it’s months of training, weeks of preparations, days of mission planning, hours of transport (and walking), all punctuated by very rare minutes of extremely stressful action.

    Although I rarely, if ever, said, “Gee, I wish I had better gunslingers” in that line of work, I certainly said, very often, “I wish I had better (or more accurately, “less f-d up”) intel.”

    I speak a couple of relevant foreign languages at a very high level too, which must help.
     
    Depending on what they are, yes. One of the highly desired critical ones will do. Two is golden and will definitely help to get you in the door.

    It is nice to know that I may not have to spend years with the regular military first.
     
    While that is not impossible, it’s exceedingly difficult unless you have prior mil/intel/LE experience. I hope I did not give you an impression to the contrary.

    Also, it goes without saying that you better have had a very clean, transparent life.

    How much experience do you have with shooting, land navigation, emergency/wilderness medicine, etc.? How fit are you physically?
    , @Tyrion 2

    It is nice to know that I may not have to spend years with the regular military first
     
    Special Operations do not recruit warfighters from any place other than the military. There is no direct entry.

    This is known to all involved.

    You only need to find someone, in real life, of proven calibre and they'll confirm.

    I would instead suggest you apply for a commission in the infantry, given your educational background, but it sounds like you want to kick down doors yourself!

    This can happen for a commissioned person in SF but it will be much rarer as your talents will best be used doing that. Rather it is better that you be constantly planning and have enough distance on any action that you can see the bigger picture.

    In which case, get very fit and go in as a private. I can suggest how you get the appropriate fitness, but, basically, if you achieve reasonable upper body fitness, can carry a lot of weight on your back a long way and can run 8 X 800m intervals in a row, with a short break, and to absolute-going-blind best effort each then you'll be fine. If you do the last one, you will likely get very fit very fast, though I suggest a fair number of days rest in between. Then again, everyone adapts to fitness regimes differently, so keep an open mind and execrise at least in some way every other day.

    Your obvious education and intelligence will swiftly be recognised, and if you're very fit as well, then you'll be either offered a route to a commission or pushed very strongly towards the Special Forces.

    There is a chance that your "management" will be dreadful. If so, remember that your career is your own and that no one will care for it as much as you should. Don't overcompensate either - you'll need your first Chevron to apply internally and that'll come quickest if you're humble, willing to learn and are always seen to be genuinely caring for, and helping those, less capable.

    Also, remember, that warfighting in a Special Operations role is certainly not for everyone. So take the unavoidable first step of regular military service as a good thing. It will allow you the time and information to make a proper decision not based on what most people have to go on, which is computer games where Spec Ops have unironic nicknames like Ace Killer and Death Bringer...
  155. @iffen
    You want them to do a Great Trek, eh?

    Maybe some of the WNs here can give you a better answer. I’m not one and I’m just giving you my evaluation of the politics. There is very little there there. It is mostly a media creation used to keep the coalition of the fringes, as Sailer calls them, voting correctly. Very smart and soulless people like Terry McAuliffe create and/or manipulate media events like Charlottesville for political benefit. That’s why, even to this day; media features on Trump can play video of Charlottesville in the background.

    You want them to do a Great Trek, eh?

    Of course not.
    I’d simply like to suggest those living in “bluestan” to start thinking about..ahm…”migrating”.

    You know…haha…..internal “migrants” stuff. Open borders, “dreamers”, the works, only this time it’s “deplorables” moving inside their own country. O.K. inside the country they still believe it’s their own.
    What a picture, a? Just imagine that.

    There is very little there there.

    Hehe….that’s the very premise of this conversation.

    Well, as you say:

    Maybe some of the WNs here can give you a better answer.

    let’s wait a bit and see…

  156. @Career
    I was looking for something with impact, like paramilitary/direct action. I speak a couple of relevant foreign languages at a very high level too, which must help.

    Thank you for the rest of your advice. It is nice to know that I may not have to spend years with the regular military first. I'm not totally against it but as a high level athlete with Ivy League linguistic qualifications, I'll be hoping to skip this step.

    Sorry to interrupt, guys. Apologies, really.
    This caught my eye:

    I was looking for something with impact, like paramilitary/direct action.

    You mean, bottom line, to get involved in CQB, as a…sniper….even an assaulter?

    If you were a person I cared for I’d say:”don’t do it”.
    If you are an average guy, I’d say the same.
    That simple.

    Now, if you were (are?) one of….. “those”…… guys, well……………there ARE posts, as we speak, where they’d love to have you in a team. Those being that 1 % of any society. I really assume you aren’t one of them. Let’s leave it there.

    You are aware that this conversation is just around that RED line on Internet.
    This is just not to have another IDIOT being killed or maimed for nothing in the middle of nowhere.

    O.K.
    How about you tell us here, if you want, that is, how EXACTLY you see your involvement?
    I assume it would be overseas. So…really…..what are you looking for?

    CT work, in Western countries, is done by the Tier 1 of Special Forces, from your Deltas/SEAL Team 6, through The Regiment, GIGN and similar outfits. Top people you simply don’t belong.
    Their work is supported by top tier of regular military. Like, for The Regiment, Parachute Regiment/Commandos. Again, guys you simply don’t belong too.

    In CT scenario/mission a civilian contractor/mercenary/paramilitary simply shouldn’t be there. They simply don’t belong. Direct action or whatever the Hell that means, I mean.

    Don’t be…misguided. Just don’t.

    • Replies: @Talha

    So…really…..what are you looking for?
     
    CQB? 72 virgins perhaps...?

    But I don't know if that's part of their benefits/compensation package.

    Peace.
  157. @peterAUS
    Sorry to interrupt, guys. Apologies, really.
    This caught my eye:

    I was looking for something with impact, like paramilitary/direct action.
     
    You mean, bottom line, to get involved in CQB, as a...sniper....even an assaulter?

    If you were a person I cared for I'd say:"don't do it".
    If you are an average guy, I'd say the same.
    That simple.

    Now, if you were (are?) one of..... "those"...... guys, well...............there ARE posts, as we speak, where they'd love to have you in a team. Those being that 1 % of any society. I really assume you aren't one of them. Let's leave it there.

    You are aware that this conversation is just around that RED line on Internet.
    This is just not to have another IDIOT being killed or maimed for nothing in the middle of nowhere.

    O.K.
    How about you tell us here, if you want, that is, how EXACTLY you see your involvement?
    I assume it would be overseas. So...really.....what are you looking for?

    CT work, in Western countries, is done by the Tier 1 of Special Forces, from your Deltas/SEAL Team 6, through The Regiment, GIGN and similar outfits. Top people you simply don't belong.
    Their work is supported by top tier of regular military. Like, for The Regiment, Parachute Regiment/Commandos. Again, guys you simply don't belong too.

    In CT scenario/mission a civilian contractor/mercenary/paramilitary simply shouldn't be there. They simply don't belong. Direct action or whatever the Hell that means, I mean.

    Don't be...misguided. Just don't.

    So…really…..what are you looking for?

    CQB? 72 virgins perhaps…?

    But I don’t know if that’s part of their benefits/compensation package.

    Peace.

  158. @Career
    I was looking for something with impact, like paramilitary/direct action. I speak a couple of relevant foreign languages at a very high level too, which must help.

    Thank you for the rest of your advice. It is nice to know that I may not have to spend years with the regular military first. I'm not totally against it but as a high level athlete with Ivy League linguistic qualifications, I'll be hoping to skip this step.

    I was looking for something with impact, like paramilitary/direct action.

    There is high impact in several of the subfields I listed. Gunslinging is sexy-sounding, but it’s months of training, weeks of preparations, days of mission planning, hours of transport (and walking), all punctuated by very rare minutes of extremely stressful action.

    Although I rarely, if ever, said, “Gee, I wish I had better gunslingers” in that line of work, I certainly said, very often, “I wish I had better (or more accurately, “less f-d up”) intel.”

    I speak a couple of relevant foreign languages at a very high level too, which must help.

    Depending on what they are, yes. One of the highly desired critical ones will do. Two is golden and will definitely help to get you in the door.

    It is nice to know that I may not have to spend years with the regular military first.

    While that is not impossible, it’s exceedingly difficult unless you have prior mil/intel/LE experience. I hope I did not give you an impression to the contrary.

    Also, it goes without saying that you better have had a very clean, transparent life.

    How much experience do you have with shooting, land navigation, emergency/wilderness medicine, etc.? How fit are you physically?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Well...well...how the world has changed.
    I am OLD......

    So, a civilian, with zero military experience, currently/presently/now, CAN, straight from the street, join a military unit specializing in Counter-Terrorism?! Like, the selection process is open for civilians, from the street?!

    Whhooooah......

    You sure about that?
    Which one?

    You aren't talking about "private security contractors" here?

    And, while we are talking about them, you sure any of respectable outfits would accept guy like that?

    Whoooahhhh.....

    My God.

    Well, either you are full of shit or standards HAVE gone down for good.

    I mean, there ARE outfits which would accept the guy as we speak. But....no smart guy would touch those outfits with a barge pole.

    Twilight Zone here......
    , @Career
    I went to the recruitment office after reading this and it seems that you're right.

    I said to them that my friend Grim Reaper told me that I could join Special Forces as a warfighter directly. They told me the best that I might likely get would be to join in a cleaning contract, but cleaning contracts were not their business.

    I then asked if I might be promoted to warfighter from cleaning contractor. They then laughed with me. Perhaps they were impressed with my grit?

    I added that my friend Twinkie/Grim Reaper told me I could. They said ok - I had passed the first test, and so they showed off their super soldier nicknames themselves and replied that I must be legit as everyone has got them. Kindly, they gave me mine, which was "Walt", but I don't know what that means. I assume it stands for steely-eyed killer or something.

    Anyway, I decided that they needed to be even more impressed so I took out my own black balaclava and put it on to show them my moves. They laughed at me again, out of respect, I think. Especially when I spun round and proved my ability to "180 no scope" the enemy. Obvious approval followed as they all rolled on the floor crying with what looked like laughter but must have been joy at my skills!

    I proceeded to list all of my martial arts qualifications. I've seen all the 3 Matrix movies after all. I've actually even seen the Animatrix.

    I think that sealed the deal as they replied that I had shown them more than enough and that they'd be contacting me, when I'm needed, through special means, and in a special place. So now I'm just like my hero Twinkie - a super soldier of the elite of the elite.

    Thank you!
    , @Johann Ricke
    This is great information for the callow, but I'm afraid you are casting pearls before swine.
    , @Johann Ricke
    At the same time, there is the old expression - I cast my bread upon the water.
  159. @Michael S
    Fertility issues won't be solved without a wholesale rejection of feminism, and I mean all of its waves. We're talking full-fledged patriarchy, women as property, no female-initiated divorce, severe restraints on abortion and birth control, legal protections on thot-patrolling even when violence is employed.

    There is one possible scenario in which that happens, but I don't think most of you would like it. I'm not a big fan myself.

    Some of you will be saying, "but fertility was fine in the fifties! Muh Baby Boom!" Please understand that this was a highly unstable state, which only took a single generation to crash and burn. If we went back to the fifties, we'd simply end up with the sixties again.

    Fertility issues won’t be solved without a wholesale rejection of feminism, and I mean all of its waves. We’re talking full-fledged patriarchy, women as property, no female-initiated divorce, severe restraints on abortion and birth control, legal protections on thot-patrolling even when violence is employed.

    Ridiculous. So much so, i’m actually in agreement–partial–with Rosie on the women issue.

    For starters the West has always been the place with the highest female status. Women were subordinate of course–that’s part of civilization–but partners in the family enterprise not chattel. We were never the East.

    Knocking out feminism–specificlaly female careerism as the highest female aspiration–pretty much takes care of the problem.

    Couple that with the sort of aggressive family\fertility prioritizing tax policy that Lot and I have talked up–very high non-refundable child deductions–and you are there. Simple thought experiment: tax rate 80% for singles\childless\empty-nesters; zero for married with 3+ kids. What’s fertility look like? Walk that back until you have what you want. No nation has simply been very aggressive yet. All baby steps. (Though Hungary is starting to get more serious.)

    Remember American women say they 2.3 kids and have something like 1.8. It’s not exactly rocket science to move the needle up when it’s what women actually want. And as AE is pointing out, we are now–post-pill, anti-fertility culture–selecting for people who are “breeders”. So, even doing nothing fertility will climb back.

    Which brings me to the final issue …fundamentally it is all about stopping immigration.

    Stop it, and in time we’ll have the recovered fertility which we can encourage with policy to be eugenic. Allow it and we simply drown. Nothing else we do can overcome the deluge.

    Immigration is it. It’s the only thing that matters.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Immigration is it. It’s the only thing that matters.
     
    It's very important, existential, even. But it's not the "only" thing. The Soviet Union (or more appropriately North Korea) did not have immigration problems to be living hells.

    Even with zero immigration, living in a black/transgender supremacist country with "appropriate" reeducation infrastructure for those who resist would be unpleasant to be very mild about it.

    Likewise, fixing/restricting immigration isn't going to be the magic bullet you think it is. The overall culture of the country is very sick - it's going to take MANY magic bullets to fix it.

  160. @Twinkie

    I was looking for something with impact, like paramilitary/direct action.
     
    There is high impact in several of the subfields I listed. Gunslinging is sexy-sounding, but it’s months of training, weeks of preparations, days of mission planning, hours of transport (and walking), all punctuated by very rare minutes of extremely stressful action.

    Although I rarely, if ever, said, “Gee, I wish I had better gunslingers” in that line of work, I certainly said, very often, “I wish I had better (or more accurately, “less f-d up”) intel.”

    I speak a couple of relevant foreign languages at a very high level too, which must help.
     
    Depending on what they are, yes. One of the highly desired critical ones will do. Two is golden and will definitely help to get you in the door.

    It is nice to know that I may not have to spend years with the regular military first.
     
    While that is not impossible, it’s exceedingly difficult unless you have prior mil/intel/LE experience. I hope I did not give you an impression to the contrary.

    Also, it goes without saying that you better have had a very clean, transparent life.

    How much experience do you have with shooting, land navigation, emergency/wilderness medicine, etc.? How fit are you physically?

    Well…well…how the world has changed.
    I am OLD……

    So, a civilian, with zero military experience, currently/presently/now, CAN, straight from the street, join a military unit specializing in Counter-Terrorism?! Like, the selection process is open for civilians, from the street?!

    Whhooooah……

    You sure about that?
    Which one?

    You aren’t talking about “private security contractors” here?

    And, while we are talking about them, you sure any of respectable outfits would accept guy like that?

    Whoooahhhh…..

    My God.

    Well, either you are full of shit or standards HAVE gone down for good.

    I mean, there ARE outfits which would accept the guy as we speak. But….no smart guy would touch those outfits with a barge pole.

    Twilight Zone here……

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    So, a civilian, with zero military experience, currently/presently/now, CAN, straight from the street, join a military unit specializing in Counter-Terrorism?! Like, the selection process is open for civilians, from the street?!
     
    You have a significant reading comprehension problem, to say the least. I try not to engage in a conversation with people who can’t form an elementary school level, semi-coherent English sentence, but I’ll indulge for now.

    CT has many, many components, both civilian (intel/LE) and military, some of which I listed above. There are gunslingers in both. Though usually there is a lot of crossover, there is always a few in the former group who have come through its own ranks without having had military experience or only having had unrelated military experience (e.g. an FBI HRT member who was a fighter pilot prior).
  161. @peterAUS
    Well...well...how the world has changed.
    I am OLD......

    So, a civilian, with zero military experience, currently/presently/now, CAN, straight from the street, join a military unit specializing in Counter-Terrorism?! Like, the selection process is open for civilians, from the street?!

    Whhooooah......

    You sure about that?
    Which one?

    You aren't talking about "private security contractors" here?

    And, while we are talking about them, you sure any of respectable outfits would accept guy like that?

    Whoooahhhh.....

    My God.

    Well, either you are full of shit or standards HAVE gone down for good.

    I mean, there ARE outfits which would accept the guy as we speak. But....no smart guy would touch those outfits with a barge pole.

    Twilight Zone here......

    So, a civilian, with zero military experience, currently/presently/now, CAN, straight from the street, join a military unit specializing in Counter-Terrorism?! Like, the selection process is open for civilians, from the street?!

    You have a significant reading comprehension problem, to say the least. I try not to engage in a conversation with people who can’t form an elementary school level, semi-coherent English sentence, but I’ll indulge for now.

    CT has many, many components, both civilian (intel/LE) and military, some of which I listed above. There are gunslingers in both. Though usually there is a lot of crossover, there is always a few in the former group who have come through its own ranks without having had military experience or only having had unrelated military experience (e.g. an FBI HRT member who was a fighter pilot prior).

    • Replies: @peterAUS

    You have a significant reading comprehension problem, to say the least. I try not to engage in a conversation with people who can’t form an elementary school level, semi-coherent English sentence, but I’ll indulge for now.
     
    Much appreciated. I'll reciprocate.

    The fellow wants to get into "direct action". Direct..............action. I suspect it's related to shooting some bad terrorist. Not translating. Or ....whatever.


    CT has many, many components, both civilian (intel/LE) and military, some of which I listed above. There are gunslingers in both. Though usually there is a lot of crossover, there is always a few in the former group who have come through its own ranks without having had military experience or only having had unrelated military experience (e.g. an FBI HRT member who was a fighter pilot prior).
     
    Don't say.
    Could be just me but the fellow doesn't strike me as a fighter pilot, or similar. That fighter pilot spent some time in military...I assume. That right? Or that works differently today too? A civilian pilot just walks through the door and....

    Am I correct:
    The fellow above joins as translator. Not a "badged" member of the outfit. Providing he passes all those checks etc. That desire for "direct action" thing will work well there. Coherent?
    Then he works as ...well...translator. I am not quite sure that's what he wants. Could be mistaken, and you could be right, then.Coherent?

    After certain period of working as a translator he applies for the "shooter". Still coherent? And then he goes through pre-evaluation process, proper selection etc. Am I correct? Still coherent?
    After passing the selection there is a training period. Still good? Around, say....6 months, minimum?Or it's 18 ?How am I doing? Coherent?

    So...would you be so kind as to advise the fellow how long he'll need to wait to become that...ahm..."direct action" guy? Three years, minimum? With impeccable working record in the original role (that boring one, translator)? Or it's five?
    I am sure it ain't a year. Even two. Coherent?

    You appear to be an experienced fellow. The new breed, apparently. Would you be so kind as to enlighten me/us, please?

    How much time YOU spent in military before qualifying for the "stick"? You know, that "direct counter terrorist" action? Approximately. I'd say.....4 years minimum. How am I doing? Comprehensible enough? Four.........years. In military. From boot camp, basics, that sort of thing.
    And while we are onto it, how much time you'd expect, no, demand, from your team mate? You know, you are No. 1 and he's No.2. You go through the door first, he split second later? How am I doing? Am I coherent?

    Nothing personal. Just curious how it works today.
    Oh, sorry, was that clear enough for you?
    If not, I'll rewrite, sergeant, no prob. You are sergeant, aren't you !? Or I got that wrong too? Ah, well, Captain then. Whatever.

  162. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    I know that not everyone here is a Catholic

    But if you, the person reading this, are a Catholic, then this is for you. There is one thing that can and must be done to save our Church, our nation, and our people:

    PRAY THE ROSARY

    Ethnos needs logos

    Your right. And we already know we are on the Winner’s side. Salve, Reina y madre.

  163. @Twinkie

    So, a civilian, with zero military experience, currently/presently/now, CAN, straight from the street, join a military unit specializing in Counter-Terrorism?! Like, the selection process is open for civilians, from the street?!
     
    You have a significant reading comprehension problem, to say the least. I try not to engage in a conversation with people who can’t form an elementary school level, semi-coherent English sentence, but I’ll indulge for now.

    CT has many, many components, both civilian (intel/LE) and military, some of which I listed above. There are gunslingers in both. Though usually there is a lot of crossover, there is always a few in the former group who have come through its own ranks without having had military experience or only having had unrelated military experience (e.g. an FBI HRT member who was a fighter pilot prior).

    You have a significant reading comprehension problem, to say the least. I try not to engage in a conversation with people who can’t form an elementary school level, semi-coherent English sentence, but I’ll indulge for now.

    Much appreciated. I’ll reciprocate.

    The fellow wants to get into “direct action”. Direct…………..action. I suspect it’s related to shooting some bad terrorist. Not translating. Or ….whatever.

    CT has many, many components, both civilian (intel/LE) and military, some of which I listed above. There are gunslingers in both. Though usually there is a lot of crossover, there is always a few in the former group who have come through its own ranks without having had military experience or only having had unrelated military experience (e.g. an FBI HRT member who was a fighter pilot prior).

    Don’t say.
    Could be just me but the fellow doesn’t strike me as a fighter pilot, or similar. That fighter pilot spent some time in military…I assume. That right? Or that works differently today too? A civilian pilot just walks through the door and….

    Am I correct:
    The fellow above joins as translator. Not a “badged” member of the outfit. Providing he passes all those checks etc. That desire for “direct action” thing will work well there. Coherent?
    Then he works as …well…translator. I am not quite sure that’s what he wants. Could be mistaken, and you could be right, then.Coherent?

    After certain period of working as a translator he applies for the “shooter”. Still coherent? And then he goes through pre-evaluation process, proper selection etc. Am I correct? Still coherent?
    After passing the selection there is a training period. Still good? Around, say….6 months, minimum?Or it’s 18 ?How am I doing? Coherent?

    So…would you be so kind as to advise the fellow how long he’ll need to wait to become that…ahm…”direct action” guy? Three years, minimum? With impeccable working record in the original role (that boring one, translator)? Or it’s five?
    I am sure it ain’t a year. Even two. Coherent?

    You appear to be an experienced fellow. The new breed, apparently. Would you be so kind as to enlighten me/us, please?

    How much time YOU spent in military before qualifying for the “stick”? You know, that “direct counter terrorist” action? Approximately. I’d say…..4 years minimum. How am I doing? Comprehensible enough? Four………years. In military. From boot camp, basics, that sort of thing.
    And while we are onto it, how much time you’d expect, no, demand, from your team mate? You know, you are No. 1 and he’s No.2. You go through the door first, he split second later? How am I doing? Am I coherent?

    Nothing personal. Just curious how it works today.
    Oh, sorry, was that clear enough for you?
    If not, I’ll rewrite, sergeant, no prob. You are sergeant, aren’t you !? Or I got that wrong too? Ah, well, Captain then. Whatever.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Actually.........I feel you were/are correct and I was wrong.
    Imagine that. Sad.......
    It's age.......

    Got it, on re-reading the previous post. And my "online enemy", Mr. Talha (that's compliment, you know) pointed me into the right direction.

    I........was............wrong. Or I am wrong. I admit. Oh, B.T.W, is that comprehensible enough?

    It's actually a misunderstanding. Huge misunderstanding. I'll try to explain.

    When I think about "terrorist" I think a competent, dedicated man/woman, in his/her prime executing a hostile mission on our soil. Say, Australia. So, stupid me...I was thinking about SASR.
    Sorry guys. Old man. Pre "2001" mindset.
    You know, we studied (imagine that...how old...) Bader-Meinhoff, Red Brigades etc. South American breeds too. Even Japanese.Long time ago....

    That's not how ti works today.
    A terrorist is anybody in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Nigeria...etc.....who is seen as...well...a terrorist. It could be a 18 year old goat shepherd. Or ...whatever.

    So, yes, I stand corrected.

    To deal with "Beslan" scenario in Sydney you do need the SASR (and a lot of luck).
    Yanks, for similar scenario in New York would need "Deltas" and the rest of the Tier 1. And God, of course.

    But, to deal with "war on Terror" overseas you just need a guy with a gun.

    Apologies guys.
    Please feel free to resume the recruitment.
    , @Twinkie

    direct action
     
    I am going to ignore the rest of your incomprehensible rambling, but recall that I specified "paramilitary/direction action."

    Look up "paramilitary" in the dictionary. Here is a hint - it's not a (formal) part of the military. Repeat, numerous civilian agencies have gunslingers with CT training/experience. Although many, perhaps most, such people are former military, some are not and came up through the ranks of their own agencies or other civilian organizations.


    To deal with “Beslan” scenario in Sydney you do need the SASR (and a lot of luck).
    Yanks, for similar scenario in New York would need “Deltas” and the rest of the Tier 1. And God, of course.
     
    I have the feeling that you know nothing to little of the American civil-military relations. Look up Posse Comitatus. The U.S. armed forces, "Tier 1" or no, cannot operate on U.S. soil for direct law enforcement purposes. They can, however, lend "support" to the appropriate civilian law enforcement agencies.

    I am going to terminate this interaction now. Good luck wargaming insurrections in Sydney.

  164. @peterAUS

    You have a significant reading comprehension problem, to say the least. I try not to engage in a conversation with people who can’t form an elementary school level, semi-coherent English sentence, but I’ll indulge for now.
     
    Much appreciated. I'll reciprocate.

    The fellow wants to get into "direct action". Direct..............action. I suspect it's related to shooting some bad terrorist. Not translating. Or ....whatever.


    CT has many, many components, both civilian (intel/LE) and military, some of which I listed above. There are gunslingers in both. Though usually there is a lot of crossover, there is always a few in the former group who have come through its own ranks without having had military experience or only having had unrelated military experience (e.g. an FBI HRT member who was a fighter pilot prior).
     
    Don't say.
    Could be just me but the fellow doesn't strike me as a fighter pilot, or similar. That fighter pilot spent some time in military...I assume. That right? Or that works differently today too? A civilian pilot just walks through the door and....

    Am I correct:
    The fellow above joins as translator. Not a "badged" member of the outfit. Providing he passes all those checks etc. That desire for "direct action" thing will work well there. Coherent?
    Then he works as ...well...translator. I am not quite sure that's what he wants. Could be mistaken, and you could be right, then.Coherent?

    After certain period of working as a translator he applies for the "shooter". Still coherent? And then he goes through pre-evaluation process, proper selection etc. Am I correct? Still coherent?
    After passing the selection there is a training period. Still good? Around, say....6 months, minimum?Or it's 18 ?How am I doing? Coherent?

    So...would you be so kind as to advise the fellow how long he'll need to wait to become that...ahm..."direct action" guy? Three years, minimum? With impeccable working record in the original role (that boring one, translator)? Or it's five?
    I am sure it ain't a year. Even two. Coherent?

    You appear to be an experienced fellow. The new breed, apparently. Would you be so kind as to enlighten me/us, please?

    How much time YOU spent in military before qualifying for the "stick"? You know, that "direct counter terrorist" action? Approximately. I'd say.....4 years minimum. How am I doing? Comprehensible enough? Four.........years. In military. From boot camp, basics, that sort of thing.
    And while we are onto it, how much time you'd expect, no, demand, from your team mate? You know, you are No. 1 and he's No.2. You go through the door first, he split second later? How am I doing? Am I coherent?

    Nothing personal. Just curious how it works today.
    Oh, sorry, was that clear enough for you?
    If not, I'll rewrite, sergeant, no prob. You are sergeant, aren't you !? Or I got that wrong too? Ah, well, Captain then. Whatever.

    Actually………I feel you were/are correct and I was wrong.
    Imagine that. Sad…….
    It’s age…….

    Got it, on re-reading the previous post. And my “online enemy”, Mr. Talha (that’s compliment, you know) pointed me into the right direction.

    I……..was…………wrong. Or I am wrong. I admit. Oh, B.T.W, is that comprehensible enough?

    It’s actually a misunderstanding. Huge misunderstanding. I’ll try to explain.

    When I think about “terrorist” I think a competent, dedicated man/woman, in his/her prime executing a hostile mission on our soil. Say, Australia. So, stupid me…I was thinking about SASR.
    Sorry guys. Old man. Pre “2001” mindset.
    You know, we studied (imagine that…how old…) Bader-Meinhoff, Red Brigades etc. South American breeds too. Even Japanese.Long time ago….

    That’s not how ti works today.
    A terrorist is anybody in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Nigeria…etc…..who is seen as…well…a terrorist. It could be a 18 year old goat shepherd. Or …whatever.

    So, yes, I stand corrected.

    To deal with “Beslan” scenario in Sydney you do need the SASR (and a lot of luck).
    Yanks, for similar scenario in New York would need “Deltas” and the rest of the Tier 1. And God, of course.

    But, to deal with “war on Terror” overseas you just need a guy with a gun.

    Apologies guys.
    Please feel free to resume the recruitment.

    • Replies: @Talha

    But, to deal with “war on Terror” overseas you just need a guy with a gun.
     
    Nah man, you just need some guy sitting all day in an air conditioned trailer with headset, a joystick that controls a drone 3,000 miles away and a button he presses - any time he gets clearance for acceptable “big splats” - between flipping through Tinder and porn on his phone. Basically like he did in his mom’s basement for years without pay.

    The glory of modern warfare...be all that you can be!

    Peace.
  165. @peterAUS
    Actually.........I feel you were/are correct and I was wrong.
    Imagine that. Sad.......
    It's age.......

    Got it, on re-reading the previous post. And my "online enemy", Mr. Talha (that's compliment, you know) pointed me into the right direction.

    I........was............wrong. Or I am wrong. I admit. Oh, B.T.W, is that comprehensible enough?

    It's actually a misunderstanding. Huge misunderstanding. I'll try to explain.

    When I think about "terrorist" I think a competent, dedicated man/woman, in his/her prime executing a hostile mission on our soil. Say, Australia. So, stupid me...I was thinking about SASR.
    Sorry guys. Old man. Pre "2001" mindset.
    You know, we studied (imagine that...how old...) Bader-Meinhoff, Red Brigades etc. South American breeds too. Even Japanese.Long time ago....

    That's not how ti works today.
    A terrorist is anybody in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Nigeria...etc.....who is seen as...well...a terrorist. It could be a 18 year old goat shepherd. Or ...whatever.

    So, yes, I stand corrected.

    To deal with "Beslan" scenario in Sydney you do need the SASR (and a lot of luck).
    Yanks, for similar scenario in New York would need "Deltas" and the rest of the Tier 1. And God, of course.

    But, to deal with "war on Terror" overseas you just need a guy with a gun.

    Apologies guys.
    Please feel free to resume the recruitment.

    But, to deal with “war on Terror” overseas you just need a guy with a gun.

    Nah man, you just need some guy sitting all day in an air conditioned trailer with headset, a joystick that controls a drone 3,000 miles away and a button he presses – any time he gets clearance for acceptable “big splats” – between flipping through Tinder and porn on his phone. Basically like he did in his mom’s basement for years without pay.

    The glory of modern warfare…be all that you can be!

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Nah man, you just need some guy sitting all day in an air conditioned trailer with headset, a joystick that controls a drone 3,000 miles away and a button he presses – any time he gets clearance for acceptable “big splats”
     
    Dead men cannot be interrogated.
    , @peterAUS
    You know, while we are waiting for Godot...I mean WNs to chime in re "self-determination", a bit of input from an enemy,perhaps?

    So...what's your take about the idea? Say.....in France.....Paris gives Muslims there a "territorial entity" somewhere in South. A BIG autonomy, for example.

    You guys can do all that Saudi, or whatever, thing, there. Your local laws, customs , the works. Local police even. O.K. the G.I.G.N stays .One platoon only, just in case. No military presence, though.
    I am sure the arrangement could be hammered out, somehow.

    Curious. Would you be in favor of that solution?

  166. @peterAUS

    You have a significant reading comprehension problem, to say the least. I try not to engage in a conversation with people who can’t form an elementary school level, semi-coherent English sentence, but I’ll indulge for now.
     
    Much appreciated. I'll reciprocate.

    The fellow wants to get into "direct action". Direct..............action. I suspect it's related to shooting some bad terrorist. Not translating. Or ....whatever.


    CT has many, many components, both civilian (intel/LE) and military, some of which I listed above. There are gunslingers in both. Though usually there is a lot of crossover, there is always a few in the former group who have come through its own ranks without having had military experience or only having had unrelated military experience (e.g. an FBI HRT member who was a fighter pilot prior).
     
    Don't say.
    Could be just me but the fellow doesn't strike me as a fighter pilot, or similar. That fighter pilot spent some time in military...I assume. That right? Or that works differently today too? A civilian pilot just walks through the door and....

    Am I correct:
    The fellow above joins as translator. Not a "badged" member of the outfit. Providing he passes all those checks etc. That desire for "direct action" thing will work well there. Coherent?
    Then he works as ...well...translator. I am not quite sure that's what he wants. Could be mistaken, and you could be right, then.Coherent?

    After certain period of working as a translator he applies for the "shooter". Still coherent? And then he goes through pre-evaluation process, proper selection etc. Am I correct? Still coherent?
    After passing the selection there is a training period. Still good? Around, say....6 months, minimum?Or it's 18 ?How am I doing? Coherent?

    So...would you be so kind as to advise the fellow how long he'll need to wait to become that...ahm..."direct action" guy? Three years, minimum? With impeccable working record in the original role (that boring one, translator)? Or it's five?
    I am sure it ain't a year. Even two. Coherent?

    You appear to be an experienced fellow. The new breed, apparently. Would you be so kind as to enlighten me/us, please?

    How much time YOU spent in military before qualifying for the "stick"? You know, that "direct counter terrorist" action? Approximately. I'd say.....4 years minimum. How am I doing? Comprehensible enough? Four.........years. In military. From boot camp, basics, that sort of thing.
    And while we are onto it, how much time you'd expect, no, demand, from your team mate? You know, you are No. 1 and he's No.2. You go through the door first, he split second later? How am I doing? Am I coherent?

    Nothing personal. Just curious how it works today.
    Oh, sorry, was that clear enough for you?
    If not, I'll rewrite, sergeant, no prob. You are sergeant, aren't you !? Or I got that wrong too? Ah, well, Captain then. Whatever.

    direct action

    I am going to ignore the rest of your incomprehensible rambling, but recall that I specified “paramilitary/direction action.”

    Look up “paramilitary” in the dictionary. Here is a hint – it’s not a (formal) part of the military. Repeat, numerous civilian agencies have gunslingers with CT training/experience. Although many, perhaps most, such people are former military, some are not and came up through the ranks of their own agencies or other civilian organizations.

    To deal with “Beslan” scenario in Sydney you do need the SASR (and a lot of luck).
    Yanks, for similar scenario in New York would need “Deltas” and the rest of the Tier 1. And God, of course.

    I have the feeling that you know nothing to little of the American civil-military relations. Look up Posse Comitatus. The U.S. armed forces, “Tier 1” or no, cannot operate on U.S. soil for direct law enforcement purposes. They can, however, lend “support” to the appropriate civilian law enforcement agencies.

    I am going to terminate this interaction now. Good luck wargaming insurrections in Sydney.

  167. @AnotherDad

    Fertility issues won’t be solved without a wholesale rejection of feminism, and I mean all of its waves. We’re talking full-fledged patriarchy, women as property, no female-initiated divorce, severe restraints on abortion and birth control, legal protections on thot-patrolling even when violence is employed.
     
    Ridiculous. So much so, i'm actually in agreement--partial--with Rosie on the women issue.

    For starters the West has always been the place with the highest female status. Women were subordinate of course--that's part of civilization--but partners in the family enterprise not chattel. We were never the East.

    Knocking out feminism--specificlaly female careerism as the highest female aspiration--pretty much takes care of the problem.

    Couple that with the sort of aggressive family\fertility prioritizing tax policy that Lot and I have talked up--very high non-refundable child deductions--and you are there. Simple thought experiment: tax rate 80% for singles\childless\empty-nesters; zero for married with 3+ kids. What's fertility look like? Walk that back until you have what you want. No nation has simply been very aggressive yet. All baby steps. (Though Hungary is starting to get more serious.)

    Remember American women say they 2.3 kids and have something like 1.8. It's not exactly rocket science to move the needle up when it's what women actually want. And as AE is pointing out, we are now--post-pill, anti-fertility culture--selecting for people who are "breeders". So, even doing nothing fertility will climb back.

    Which brings me to the final issue ...fundamentally it is all about stopping immigration.

    Stop it, and in time we'll have the recovered fertility which we can encourage with policy to be eugenic. Allow it and we simply drown. Nothing else we do can overcome the deluge.

    Immigration is it. It's the only thing that matters.

    Immigration is it. It’s the only thing that matters.

    It’s very important, existential, even. But it’s not the “only” thing. The Soviet Union (or more appropriately North Korea) did not have immigration problems to be living hells.

    Even with zero immigration, living in a black/transgender supremacist country with “appropriate” reeducation infrastructure for those who resist would be unpleasant to be very mild about it.

    Likewise, fixing/restricting immigration isn’t going to be the magic bullet you think it is. The overall culture of the country is very sick – it’s going to take MANY magic bullets to fix it.

    • Agree: iffen, Mr. Rational
  168. @Talha

    But, to deal with “war on Terror” overseas you just need a guy with a gun.
     
    Nah man, you just need some guy sitting all day in an air conditioned trailer with headset, a joystick that controls a drone 3,000 miles away and a button he presses - any time he gets clearance for acceptable “big splats” - between flipping through Tinder and porn on his phone. Basically like he did in his mom’s basement for years without pay.

    The glory of modern warfare...be all that you can be!

    Peace.

    Nah man, you just need some guy sitting all day in an air conditioned trailer with headset, a joystick that controls a drone 3,000 miles away and a button he presses – any time he gets clearance for acceptable “big splats”

    Dead men cannot be interrogated.

    • Replies: @Talha
    Agreed. Apparently neither can wedding party guests by human rights groups if you make sure you get all of them.

    Peace.
  169. @Talha

    But, to deal with “war on Terror” overseas you just need a guy with a gun.
     
    Nah man, you just need some guy sitting all day in an air conditioned trailer with headset, a joystick that controls a drone 3,000 miles away and a button he presses - any time he gets clearance for acceptable “big splats” - between flipping through Tinder and porn on his phone. Basically like he did in his mom’s basement for years without pay.

    The glory of modern warfare...be all that you can be!

    Peace.

    You know, while we are waiting for Godot…I mean WNs to chime in re “self-determination”, a bit of input from an enemy,perhaps?

    So…what’s your take about the idea? Say…..in France…..Paris gives Muslims there a “territorial entity” somewhere in South. A BIG autonomy, for example.

    You guys can do all that Saudi, or whatever, thing, there. Your local laws, customs , the works. Local police even. O.K. the G.I.G.N stays .One platoon only, just in case. No military presence, though.
    I am sure the arrangement could be hammered out, somehow.

    Curious. Would you be in favor of that solution?

    • Replies: @Talha

    Curious. Would you be in favor of that solution?
     
    Actually I brainstormed this a while back. I think it may work. Basically it is a partition of society where you have a kind of semi-autonomous region or so (run a lot like the millet system under the Ottomans), say, a mini-state, district, etc.

    They have their own system and with minimum input from the federal level. The only thing the federal does is collect taxes from the local government and is charge of external security of the country as a whole. The education, religion, healthcare, welfare, roads and anything else is left up to them. Bilateral agreed upon cultural exchanges (in the form of music, food, arts festivals) could/should be encouraged.

    The top brass of the local government would have their salaries paid by the federal government to ensure loyalty. They would have full authorization to deal with any terrorism threats and the federal would turn a blind eye as to how they get it done. One thing would be clear; with any act of terrorism coming out of that district targeting France-proper, the local government would be held responsible; cutting salaries, imprisonment, etc. Same with any attacks on religious minorities within their districts.

    Vassal state? Yup.

    Another possibility; local governance/security could be outsourced through an agreement with the Algerian or Moroccan governments (or whatever constitutes the majority of the local population). There would only be local gendarmes and nothing specifically heavy-military (forget any air force, tanks, etc. - maybe local coastal patrol boats are OK). French military have the option to liaison with and "embed" at any time they want for supervisory and/or training. Again, with the clarification that those governments would be on the hook for any attacks on the rest of France. If tensions flare up, traffic in and out of the districts could be strictly monitored and identified and only those passing security vetting could get through the span of the area declared the DMZ for work or whatever (with proper GPS tracking) and daily curfews for them to get back into their district from the rest of France-proper would be strictly enforced. If things turn out amiable because tensions are resolved by putting a little distance between the disparate populations, even better and less restrictions can continue to be the norm.

    It could work. If successful, think of something along the lines of a messier version of Cueta on the North African coast. Worst case scenario, looks like Gaza.

    For a previous attempt to learn lessons from, look up the integration of Bosniaks into the Austro-Hungarian Empire*:
    https://ww1.habsburger.net/en/chapters/sharia-under-double-eagle-austria-hungary-and-bosnian-muslims

    Peace.

    *Restoration of the French Crown may, in fact, be a preferable antecedent to the arrangement.

  170. anon[381] • Disclaimer says:

    I don’t think anything other than a miracle could save the US at this point.* I thought Trump was that miracle, but I was wrong. This thing is going down. Honestly, if you’re a white male, you need to be considering other countries to move to. In the coming struggle between the US and China, the US is going down in flames; that means lots of blaming whites for a reduced standard of living and racial thefts of the kind promoted by Kamala Harris to make up for it. You won’t want to be around for that. I’m researching Asian and European nations. As soon as I decide, I’ll start the process of learning another language. Honestly, even though China is packed, I’m hoping they or maybe Japan will make it easier for me to move there one day.

    *Miracle: a wise dictator, someone like myself, comes to power and imposes your list force, but only as an appetizer. They’d also have to purge the entire media, corporate America, the military, Hollywood, and academia of divisive SJW bigots; and they’ve have to ban a host of groups from the ADL to the SPLC. Additionally, they’d have to empower the Dissident Right to run the media and government, and they’d have to immediately begin a genetic engineering and cloning program with the aim of increasing the quality of the population so we can more effectively compete with the Chinese. The government would be similarly modeled around the Chinese example where only worthy individuals are invited into the party. Of course, that’s a short list. Probability of that happening? 0.0001% over your lifetime.

    • Replies: @peterAUS

    I don’t think anything other than a miracle could save the US at this point.*
     
    Looks that way.

    Miracle: a wise dictator, someone like myself...
     
    Haha.....that's a good one.

    I thought Trump was that miracle, but I was wrong.
     
    Takes a man to admit a mistake.
    Now......that also creates sort of a problem re that assertion about being wise. I mean.....no offense, but such an error in judgement doesn't feel wise at all. On the contrary, unfortunately.
    Good thing, I guess, you aren't the only one. Plenty of those around. I thought almost the same, like, "this COULD be a miracle". That salvo on Syria killed it dead, of course.

    Ah, well, maybe some other time.
    , @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    So you're planning on moving to China AFTER they decimate America and white americans in a bloody war? Good luck.

    Europe is just as bad as the USA. The more Orwellian hate speech laws counterbalance the higher white populations. Right now, stay where you are and fight.

    In the case of a paradigm shift in Europe, I think migration there will be a good option. But as of right now, Europeans have far less land, far fewer guns and far less free speech.
  171. @anon
    I don't think anything other than a miracle could save the US at this point.* I thought Trump was that miracle, but I was wrong. This thing is going down. Honestly, if you're a white male, you need to be considering other countries to move to. In the coming struggle between the US and China, the US is going down in flames; that means lots of blaming whites for a reduced standard of living and racial thefts of the kind promoted by Kamala Harris to make up for it. You won't want to be around for that. I'm researching Asian and European nations. As soon as I decide, I'll start the process of learning another language. Honestly, even though China is packed, I'm hoping they or maybe Japan will make it easier for me to move there one day.

    *Miracle: a wise dictator, someone like myself, comes to power and imposes your list force, but only as an appetizer. They'd also have to purge the entire media, corporate America, the military, Hollywood, and academia of divisive SJW bigots; and they've have to ban a host of groups from the ADL to the SPLC. Additionally, they'd have to empower the Dissident Right to run the media and government, and they'd have to immediately begin a genetic engineering and cloning program with the aim of increasing the quality of the population so we can more effectively compete with the Chinese. The government would be similarly modeled around the Chinese example where only worthy individuals are invited into the party. Of course, that's a short list. Probability of that happening? 0.0001% over your lifetime.

    I don’t think anything other than a miracle could save the US at this point.*

    Looks that way.

    Miracle: a wise dictator, someone like myself…

    Haha…..that’s a good one.

    I thought Trump was that miracle, but I was wrong.

    Takes a man to admit a mistake.
    Now……that also creates sort of a problem re that assertion about being wise. I mean…..no offense, but such an error in judgement doesn’t feel wise at all. On the contrary, unfortunately.
    Good thing, I guess, you aren’t the only one. Plenty of those around. I thought almost the same, like, “this COULD be a miracle”. That salvo on Syria killed it dead, of course.

    Ah, well, maybe some other time.

  172. @Career
    I was looking for something with impact, like paramilitary/direct action. I speak a couple of relevant foreign languages at a very high level too, which must help.

    Thank you for the rest of your advice. It is nice to know that I may not have to spend years with the regular military first. I'm not totally against it but as a high level athlete with Ivy League linguistic qualifications, I'll be hoping to skip this step.

    It is nice to know that I may not have to spend years with the regular military first

    Special Operations do not recruit warfighters from any place other than the military. There is no direct entry.

    This is known to all involved.

    You only need to find someone, in real life, of proven calibre and they’ll confirm.

    I would instead suggest you apply for a commission in the infantry, given your educational background, but it sounds like you want to kick down doors yourself!

    This can happen for a commissioned person in SF but it will be much rarer as your talents will best be used doing that. Rather it is better that you be constantly planning and have enough distance on any action that you can see the bigger picture.

    In which case, get very fit and go in as a private. I can suggest how you get the appropriate fitness, but, basically, if you achieve reasonable upper body fitness, can carry a lot of weight on your back a long way and can run 8 X 800m intervals in a row, with a short break, and to absolute-going-blind best effort each then you’ll be fine. If you do the last one, you will likely get very fit very fast, though I suggest a fair number of days rest in between. Then again, everyone adapts to fitness regimes differently, so keep an open mind and execrise at least in some way every other day.

    Your obvious education and intelligence will swiftly be recognised, and if you’re very fit as well, then you’ll be either offered a route to a commission or pushed very strongly towards the Special Forces.

    There is a chance that your “management” will be dreadful. If so, remember that your career is your own and that no one will care for it as much as you should. Don’t overcompensate either – you’ll need your first Chevron to apply internally and that’ll come quickest if you’re humble, willing to learn and are always seen to be genuinely caring for, and helping those, less capable.

    Also, remember, that warfighting in a Special Operations role is certainly not for everyone. So take the unavoidable first step of regular military service as a good thing. It will allow you the time and information to make a proper decision not based on what most people have to go on, which is computer games where Spec Ops have unironic nicknames like Ace Killer and Death Bringer…

    • Troll: Twinkie
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    This from a kid who doesn’t know that attaching stuff to the barrel changes the POI.

    Please disassociate yourself from a serious conversation. You clearly have not fired a gun let alone have been involved in warfighting.
    , @peterAUS
    Well......if that guy was somebody I cared for I'd say your comment/post is really good and he should take a very good look at it.
    A very good advice, especially for an educated person wishing to join armed forces.

    I just have a feeling (gut, which seldom fails) that here we are having something.....interesting.

    Your post talks about, I guess, British Special Forces. I was thinking about SASR before realizing my mistake.
    Nahh.......here those two are talking about something else.

    Anyway, I tend to skip such chats.

    Now,due to no WNs deeming this conversation important, what would be your take on Talha's brainstorm here, applied to white "self-determination" in USA?
    See, Yanks don't see such topics important here; it's only three of us. Understandable. Hilarious too.

  173. @Tyrion 2

    It is nice to know that I may not have to spend years with the regular military first
     
    Special Operations do not recruit warfighters from any place other than the military. There is no direct entry.

    This is known to all involved.

    You only need to find someone, in real life, of proven calibre and they'll confirm.

    I would instead suggest you apply for a commission in the infantry, given your educational background, but it sounds like you want to kick down doors yourself!

    This can happen for a commissioned person in SF but it will be much rarer as your talents will best be used doing that. Rather it is better that you be constantly planning and have enough distance on any action that you can see the bigger picture.

    In which case, get very fit and go in as a private. I can suggest how you get the appropriate fitness, but, basically, if you achieve reasonable upper body fitness, can carry a lot of weight on your back a long way and can run 8 X 800m intervals in a row, with a short break, and to absolute-going-blind best effort each then you'll be fine. If you do the last one, you will likely get very fit very fast, though I suggest a fair number of days rest in between. Then again, everyone adapts to fitness regimes differently, so keep an open mind and execrise at least in some way every other day.

    Your obvious education and intelligence will swiftly be recognised, and if you're very fit as well, then you'll be either offered a route to a commission or pushed very strongly towards the Special Forces.

    There is a chance that your "management" will be dreadful. If so, remember that your career is your own and that no one will care for it as much as you should. Don't overcompensate either - you'll need your first Chevron to apply internally and that'll come quickest if you're humble, willing to learn and are always seen to be genuinely caring for, and helping those, less capable.

    Also, remember, that warfighting in a Special Operations role is certainly not for everyone. So take the unavoidable first step of regular military service as a good thing. It will allow you the time and information to make a proper decision not based on what most people have to go on, which is computer games where Spec Ops have unironic nicknames like Ace Killer and Death Bringer...

    This from a kid who doesn’t know that attaching stuff to the barrel changes the POI.

    Please disassociate yourself from a serious conversation. You clearly have not fired a gun let alone have been involved in warfighting.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    Honestly, mate, I am torn up with the guilt of mocking you but, over the course of this mult-threaded discussion, you went too far, and everyone has a limit to their patience.

    Nonetheless, what I've done is mean-spirited and I am therefore sorry for my poor behaviour.

    I wish you the best and accept that you may need to find a way to escalate again, so I will try my best not to react to it.

    Again, sorry. I will endeavour to be more gracious in the future.
  174. @Twinkie

    I was looking for something with impact, like paramilitary/direct action.
     
    There is high impact in several of the subfields I listed. Gunslinging is sexy-sounding, but it’s months of training, weeks of preparations, days of mission planning, hours of transport (and walking), all punctuated by very rare minutes of extremely stressful action.

    Although I rarely, if ever, said, “Gee, I wish I had better gunslingers” in that line of work, I certainly said, very often, “I wish I had better (or more accurately, “less f-d up”) intel.”

    I speak a couple of relevant foreign languages at a very high level too, which must help.
     
    Depending on what they are, yes. One of the highly desired critical ones will do. Two is golden and will definitely help to get you in the door.

    It is nice to know that I may not have to spend years with the regular military first.
     
    While that is not impossible, it’s exceedingly difficult unless you have prior mil/intel/LE experience. I hope I did not give you an impression to the contrary.

    Also, it goes without saying that you better have had a very clean, transparent life.

    How much experience do you have with shooting, land navigation, emergency/wilderness medicine, etc.? How fit are you physically?

    I went to the recruitment office after reading this and it seems that you’re right.

    I said to them that my friend Grim Reaper told me that I could join Special Forces as a warfighter directly. They told me the best that I might likely get would be to join in a cleaning contract, but cleaning contracts were not their business.

    I then asked if I might be promoted to warfighter from cleaning contractor. They then laughed with me. Perhaps they were impressed with my grit?

    I added that my friend Twinkie/Grim Reaper told me I could. They said ok – I had passed the first test, and so they showed off their super soldier nicknames themselves and replied that I must be legit as everyone has got them. Kindly, they gave me mine, which was “Walt”, but I don’t know what that means. I assume it stands for steely-eyed killer or something.

    Anyway, I decided that they needed to be even more impressed so I took out my own black balaclava and put it on to show them my moves. They laughed at me again, out of respect, I think. Especially when I spun round and proved my ability to “180 no scope” the enemy. Obvious approval followed as they all rolled on the floor crying with what looked like laughter but must have been joy at my skills!

    I proceeded to list all of my martial arts qualifications. I’ve seen all the 3 Matrix movies after all. I’ve actually even seen the Animatrix.

    I think that sealed the deal as they replied that I had shown them more than enough and that they’d be contacting me, when I’m needed, through special means, and in a special place. So now I’m just like my hero Twinkie – a super soldier of the elite of the elite.

    Thank you!

    • Troll: Twinkie
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Smooth.
    Compliments.

    You, hopefully, saved a couple of misguided, poor, kids from making a terrible mistake.
    There are outfits out there looking for them, and (mis)using them to the full.

    Good work.
  175. @Twinkie
    This from a kid who doesn’t know that attaching stuff to the barrel changes the POI.

    Please disassociate yourself from a serious conversation. You clearly have not fired a gun let alone have been involved in warfighting.

    Honestly, mate, I am torn up with the guilt of mocking you but, over the course of this mult-threaded discussion, you went too far, and everyone has a limit to their patience.

    Nonetheless, what I’ve done is mean-spirited and I am therefore sorry for my poor behaviour.

    I wish you the best and accept that you may need to find a way to escalate again, so I will try my best not to react to it.

    Again, sorry. I will endeavour to be more gracious in the future.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    Using a sock puppet is not looked upon kindly here.
  176. I will endeavour to be more gracious in the future.

    Knock yourself out, Ty. I sure there must be someone in the commentariat that gives a sh ….

  177. RE: War on Terror

    It’s time to consider a different strategy.

    I think we should stop fighting them “over there” and wait and fight them “here.”

  178. @Twinkie

    Nah man, you just need some guy sitting all day in an air conditioned trailer with headset, a joystick that controls a drone 3,000 miles away and a button he presses – any time he gets clearance for acceptable “big splats”
     
    Dead men cannot be interrogated.

    Agreed. Apparently neither can wedding party guests by human rights groups if you make sure you get all of them.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
    War is messy. Mistakes are made.
  179. @Talha
    Agreed. Apparently neither can wedding party guests by human rights groups if you make sure you get all of them.

    Peace.

    War is messy. Mistakes are made.

    • Replies: @Talha
    Yeah, which is why it is better to avoid wars of choice on nations that have done us no harm. Otherwise the culpability of the mistake is fully on you.

    Peace.
  180. @iffen
    War is messy. Mistakes are made.

    Yeah, which is why it is better to avoid wars of choice on nations that have done us no harm. Otherwise the culpability of the mistake is fully on you.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
    nations that have done us no harm.

    Why do you get to use the ummah for your purposes but "we" can't?
  181. @Talha
    Yeah, which is why it is better to avoid wars of choice on nations that have done us no harm. Otherwise the culpability of the mistake is fully on you.

    Peace.

    nations that have done us no harm.

    Why do you get to use the ummah for your purposes but “we” can’t?

    • Replies: @Talha
    Saddam’s Iraq did exactly what to your “ummah”? Keep in mind, we have international law now; if we want to revert to the law of the jungle, at least we can be honest about it publicly and disband the UN.

    Peace.
  182. @iffen
    nations that have done us no harm.

    Why do you get to use the ummah for your purposes but "we" can't?

    Saddam’s Iraq did exactly what to your “ummah”? Keep in mind, we have international law now; if we want to revert to the law of the jungle, at least we can be honest about it publicly and disband the UN.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
    Talha: You are killing Muslims.
    iffen: Muslims are killing us.
    Talha: Ain't none of me.
  183. @Talha
    Saddam’s Iraq did exactly what to your “ummah”? Keep in mind, we have international law now; if we want to revert to the law of the jungle, at least we can be honest about it publicly and disband the UN.

    Peace.

    Talha: You are killing Muslims.
    iffen: Muslims are killing us.
    Talha: Ain’t none of me.

    • Replies: @Talha
    Did I say anything about the war declared on Afghanistan? No I did not.

    I specifically stated nations that have done us no harm - so I can obviously make distinctions. If one wants to make the case that 9/11 allows for an open declaration of war on the Muslim world, then they should simply do so publicly...and then see what happens. One thing for sure; it would make the Israelis very, very happy.

    Peace.

  184. @Achmed E. Newman
    (3) would happen naturally without 2 things: Large-scale immigration and Socialism.

    (3) would happen naturally without 2 things: Large-scale immigration and Socialism.

    Things have a way of working themselves out.

    The late USSR (post 1970, let’s say) had a manufacturing sector that took valuable natural resources and converted them into very low value manufactured items. As a direct result, citizens of the USSR were, to quote an article of the time, “the poorest white people on the planet.” It was extrapolated that, by AD 2000 or so, India would have a higher per-capita income than the USSR. Western articles pointed out that the USSR had become “stuck in the 1930s,” and, in fact, after the brief attempt at reform under Khrushchev, that had indeed happened. The USSR was, essentially, unable to exit from a wartime economy devoted to preparing for WW II [1].
    As everybody knows, this problem was settled with maximum brute force and massive ignorance during the 1990s by firing the entire manufacturing sector. “Oligarchs” and the Russian Mafia executed the downsizing, with some monitoring and participation by the KGB, since these were the only social groups available who were motivated and capable enough to execute the downsizing. When it comes to demolition and hurting massive numbers of people, nothing matches billionaire thieves, organized crime, and the secret police. It’s sort of like Tammany Hall. They might have been very destructive, but the _did_ govern New York City when no other organization could, and the city not only lived through the experience, but did rather well economically.

    So, now the analogy with the US.

    Having lived through it, and had some good seats at a few of the crucial events, my summary of the post WW II time interval is that the US base population (all classes) used their political power to maximize their income. Period. Some did better than other, but that was always the theme. Industrial labor unions used their political power to maximize wages [2]. So did the corporations. So did the welfare recipients. The middle class tried to maximize its wages, but hit had been hard hit by WW II and the Korean War, was disorganized, and was treated as a cross between the immoral and the obsolete.

    During the first part of this process, up until c.a. AD 1970, the large corporate unions reaped the most, with the large corporations being in second place. Welfare recipients made out well in comparison to similar people to other countries, but not in comparison with domestic groups.
    Starting in the mid to late AD1960s, most technical innovation was stopped. Tort laws were changed to make corporations more liable for injuries. The Bell system was broken up by the Federal Judiciary, which destroyed Bell Labs, and other corporate R&D centers were closed down soon thereafter. Work in microelectronics was continued and expanded, but even at the time it was clear that this was largely to improve surveillance of the population.

    The large corporations became economically unproductive, and became worth less than the market value their assets [3]. “Corporate raiders” bought the company and sold the assets. Corporate labor unions became less able to extract high wages, and gradually became much less influential. Corporate management had also become political and unproductive. The Xerox fiasco, which gave away the mouse / windows system to whoever would take it, was just one example [4]. Typically, corporate management was so insensate that corporate R&D labs produced nothing for the corporation, but billions in spin0ffs. Both corporate management _and_ union labor had become unproductive — much like that in the USSR.

    During the decline of the corporations, the corporate vote was replaced by the welfare vote, which was a lot cheaper per vote than a labor union/ corporate management vote. In fact, the corporations ended up paying both parties for the continued existence of the corporations [5].

    OK, then. More sectors (education, research, space travel (until recently), Protestant churches, local control of schools, etc.) I could talk about, but the same thing happened in all: Secular political control became more important over time, and productivity (in terms of state goals) dropped like a lead plummet into a cesspool. Reliance on cheap votes — welfare votes — became dominant.

    Present day Republicans actually believe that they exist to gull the productive population into being productive. They are a sort of leisure time activity of the Democrats. The Democrats have a monopoly on cheap votes, so they’ll rule forever.

    But they won’t.

    The status quo party in the USSR failed c.a. AD 1990. The status quo party in the US is failing right now. Same process — massive loss of legitimacy, wide scale disbelief in pro-status quo information, nothing government does is productive, “old reliable” political tricks become ineffective and new political tricks aren’t invented to replace them, etc. Personnel quality in government is abyssal (almost literally — see https://animals.howstuffworks.com/marine-life/10-weird-creatures-from-mariana-trench5.htm and compare with political leadership).

    In very broad systems terms, industrial society has failed because, since the political domination post-WW II, R specialist populations out compete K specialist populations. The was not the case within industrial societies pre-AD 1900 [6].

    It follows, therefore, that either this failure to support K populations well end, or that industrial society will end. In the USSR, the failure to support K populations _did_ end, with maximum brutality and waste, but it ended. It will end here also, and we can see it ending right now.

    It would appear that the critical point will be reached when the political process is unable to pay for vote farms. At this point, the US governments at various levels will become bankrupt (as did the Soviet government in the late AD 1960s), and the political system will change, probably towards regional “strong men”. Think of it as reversion to a very crude kind of Federalism. It is very unlikely that cities will do well in this transition [7].

    Trump might or might not save himself. The transition will be a lot less brutal if it has good leadership, so I strongly favor Trump saving himself. His opposition (the US Establishment) would simply do what the USSR’s establishment did, and let the ship of state drift into a lee shore.

    And that’s it. There is a tide, a zeitgeist, an emergent systems property, here, that is not exactly bigger than humanity, but is more of a property of humanity. Watch it and try not to get caught in the turbulence. Hell, if you can, you might even try surfing.

    Counterinsurgency

    1] the Soviets did a very good job of that, BTW. Their logistics system was considerably superior to that of the West, they had dual purpose everything, such as highways intended for use as landing strips, police vehicles that could be changed to armored personnel carriers, and so on. Cost them a mint, but if Hitler had invaded again they’d have been ready for him. How much their preparations would have bought them given Soviet doctrine for nuclear weapons use (~500 tactical nuclear weapons slated for W. Germany, for example, was a figure released from Soviet archives) is a very good question, but if AD 1942 had ever rolled around again, they’d have been in really good shape.

    2] A popular joke by the 1970s was: “All I want is less work, and more money for not doing it”

    3] The pulp magazine distribution companies, for example, became worth less than the value of the real estate that their urban distribution sites occupied.

    4] And, yes, I was close enough to see what was happening. I wouldn’t want to say that corporate management was composed of purblind fools, and fortunately the fact is so obvious that I don’t have to. Unfortunately, the quality of management has since declined.

    5] Tucker Carlson.
    _Ship of Fools_.
    2018.
    Carlson doesn’t exactly phrase it as I have. What he does say is that corporations are politically allied with both Republicans and Democrats, are leading donors to both parties, and have highly favorable laws in return. Note, however, that PG&E is getting looted as we speak because of bad forestry practices by the State of California. The larger corporations are being propped up by various levels of government, but it isn’t at all clear who is in charge. Immigration, for example, does not help corporations directly. Does anybody really think that Silicon Valley really needs Indian personnel managers, or that firing James Damore was getting rid of deadwood? More like the corporations are giving cover to the importation of yet more Democratic voters, which would be a payment _to_ politics rather than a benefit _from_ politics.

    6] Gregory Clarke.
    _A farewell to Alms_
    2007.

    7] Gregory Copley.
    _UnCivilization: Urban Geopolitics in a Time of Chaos_.
    2012.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    This is one of the best summaries of the decline and fall of the Soviet empire I've ever seen.  If you have a blog, you could do well by expanding this summary and linking to it.  Or turn it into a book.
    , @peterAUS

    The status quo party in the US is failing right now. Same process — massive loss of legitimacy, wide scale disbelief in pro-status quo information, nothing government does is productive, “old reliable” political tricks become ineffective and new political tricks aren’t invented to replace them, etc. Personnel quality in government is abyssal (almost literally — see https://animals.howstuffworks.com/marine-life/10-weird-creatures-from-mariana-trench5.htm and compare with political leadership)
     

    It would appear that the critical point will be reached when the political process is unable to pay for vote farms. At this point, the US governments at various levels will become bankrupt (as did the Soviet government in the late AD 1960s), and the political system will change, probably towards regional “strong men”. Think of it as reversion to a very crude kind of Federalism. It is very unlikely that cities will do well in this transition
     

    Watch it and try not to get caught in the turbulence.
     
    Thoughtful.

    Not to (crudely) push, but, well, in the scenario above, not so hard to imagine a step from "regional strong men" and "crude Federalism" into "crude Confederalism". Well, perhaps, even a step from there ......
    As for "get caught in the turbulence" I am sure that a lot of people would just love that. Risk/reward, money, POWER...stuff like that.
  185. @iffen
    Talha: You are killing Muslims.
    iffen: Muslims are killing us.
    Talha: Ain't none of me.

    Did I say anything about the war declared on Afghanistan? No I did not.

    I specifically stated nations that have done us no harm – so I can obviously make distinctions. If one wants to make the case that 9/11 allows for an open declaration of war on the Muslim world, then they should simply do so publicly…and then see what happens. One thing for sure; it would make the Israelis very, very happy.

    Peace.

  186. @Rosie

    Fertility issues won’t be solved without a wholesale rejection of feminism, and I mean all of its waves.
     
    How do you know?

    It would seem that getting rid of all forms of pornography and birth control would be quite sufficient without enslaving women.

    How do you know?

    Historical precedent and some practical experience. Women turn to men when women think they need protection, and not until then. If you watch an unattached woman near an unattached man when a a bar fight breaks out you’ll see what I mean.

    Counterinsurgency

  187. @Rosie

    Fertility issues won’t be solved without a wholesale rejection of feminism, and I mean all of its waves.
     
    How do you know?

    It would seem that getting rid of all forms of pornography and birth control would be quite sufficient without enslaving women.

    I also would not, under any circumstances, propose the enslavement of women. I wouldn’t want to impose that on any man. When you own a slave, the slave ends up owning you. You’re responsible for feeding, housing, clothing, and for anything the slave does.

    These idiots who propose enslaving women — the only way any marriage can work is if the woman takes some responsibility for making it work, rather than acting as if she lacks all agency because the the man is a man and values doing everything, so she’s scared to take any initiative. Or as if the man is a superman and can do everything. Or as if the man is a tyrant who has to be constantly taken down a peg so she constantly attacks and teaches the kids to attack [1]. A woman is never going to try to show agency if the woman is enslaved.

    So, here’s a subculture in which the women are actually enslaved (supposedly role playing).
    It’s a strange story:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorean_subculture
    https://www.dailydot.com/irl/gor-gorean-slaves-history/

    The strangeness is that there is a shortage of _men_ who want to participate. It’s too much work, full time job, exhausting. That’s why the male teenage humans from chatrooms had their day.

    Now, involuntary enslavement is another thing, of course. Women should never be involuntarily enslaved. Even _men_ should never be involuntarily enslaved. But — the idea that men want to enslave women is beyond ridiculous. Maybe very rich men who don’t have trouble caring for the women, but that’s it.

    Counterinsurgency
    1] https://www.thoughtco.com/eleanor-of-aquitaine-3529622
    Even a King couldn’t live with a contentious woman.

    • Agree: Tyrion 2
  188. @peterAUS
    You know, while we are waiting for Godot...I mean WNs to chime in re "self-determination", a bit of input from an enemy,perhaps?

    So...what's your take about the idea? Say.....in France.....Paris gives Muslims there a "territorial entity" somewhere in South. A BIG autonomy, for example.

    You guys can do all that Saudi, or whatever, thing, there. Your local laws, customs , the works. Local police even. O.K. the G.I.G.N stays .One platoon only, just in case. No military presence, though.
    I am sure the arrangement could be hammered out, somehow.

    Curious. Would you be in favor of that solution?

    Curious. Would you be in favor of that solution?

    Actually I brainstormed this a while back. I think it may work. Basically it is a partition of society where you have a kind of semi-autonomous region or so (run a lot like the millet system under the Ottomans), say, a mini-state, district, etc.

    They have their own system and with minimum input from the federal level. The only thing the federal does is collect taxes from the local government and is charge of external security of the country as a whole. The education, religion, healthcare, welfare, roads and anything else is left up to them. Bilateral agreed upon cultural exchanges (in the form of music, food, arts festivals) could/should be encouraged.

    The top brass of the local government would have their salaries paid by the federal government to ensure loyalty. They would have full authorization to deal with any terrorism threats and the federal would turn a blind eye as to how they get it done. One thing would be clear; with any act of terrorism coming out of that district targeting France-proper, the local government would be held responsible; cutting salaries, imprisonment, etc. Same with any attacks on religious minorities within their districts.

    Vassal state? Yup.

    Another possibility; local governance/security could be outsourced through an agreement with the Algerian or Moroccan governments (or whatever constitutes the majority of the local population). There would only be local gendarmes and nothing specifically heavy-military (forget any air force, tanks, etc. – maybe local coastal patrol boats are OK). French military have the option to liaison with and “embed” at any time they want for supervisory and/or training. Again, with the clarification that those governments would be on the hook for any attacks on the rest of France. If tensions flare up, traffic in and out of the districts could be strictly monitored and identified and only those passing security vetting could get through the span of the area declared the DMZ for work or whatever (with proper GPS tracking) and daily curfews for them to get back into their district from the rest of France-proper would be strictly enforced. If things turn out amiable because tensions are resolved by putting a little distance between the disparate populations, even better and less restrictions can continue to be the norm.

    It could work. If successful, think of something along the lines of a messier version of Cueta on the North African coast. Worst case scenario, looks like Gaza.

    For a previous attempt to learn lessons from, look up the integration of Bosniaks into the Austro-Hungarian Empire*:
    https://ww1.habsburger.net/en/chapters/sharia-under-double-eagle-austria-hungary-and-bosnian-muslims

    Peace.

    *Restoration of the French Crown may, in fact, be a preferable antecedent to the arrangement.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Hehehe.....nice...nice.

    Actually I brainstormed this a while back. I think it may work.
     
    You most definitely did.

    Basically it is a partition of society where you have a kind of semi-autonomous region or so (run a lot like the millet system under the Ottomans), say, a mini-state, district, etc.

    They have their own system and with minimum input from the federal level. The only thing the federal does is collect taxes from the local government and is charge of external security of the country as a whole. The education, religion, healthcare, welfare, roads and anything else is left up to them. Bilateral agreed upon cultural exchanges (in the form of music, food, arts festivals) could/should be encouraged.

    The top brass of the local government would have their salaries paid by the federal government to ensure loyalty. They would have full authorization to deal with any terrorism threats and the federal would turn a blind eye as to how they get it done. One thing would be clear; with any act of terrorism coming out of that district targeting France-proper, the local government would be held responsible; cutting salaries, imprisonment, etc. Same with any attacks on religious minorities within their districts.

    Vassal state? Yup.

    Another possibility; local governance/security could be outsourced through an agreement with the Algerian or Moroccan governments (or whatever constitutes the majority of the local population). There would only be local gendarmes and nothing specifically heavy-military (forget any air force, tanks, etc. – maybe local coastal patrol boats are OK). French military have the option to liaison with and “embed” at any time they want for supervisory and/or training. Again, with the clarification that those governments would be on the hook for any attacks on the rest of France. If tensions flare up, traffic in and out of the districts could be strictly monitored and identified and only those passing security vetting could get through the span of the area declared the DMZ for work or whatever (with proper GPS tracking) and daily curfews for them to get back into their district from the rest of France-proper would be strictly enforced. If things turn out amiable because tensions are resolved by putting a little distance between the disparate populations, even better and less restrictions can continue to be the norm.

    It could work. If successful, think of something along the lines of a messier version of Cueta on the North African coast. Worst case scenario, looks like Gaza.
     
    Well done. ......compliments, really.

    Well, except those examples from Balkans. Let's leave it there.

    You've definitely proven the rule that a smart enemy could be more useful than a dumb comrade.

    Hell, maybe WNs could even hire you as a consultant. Not even joking.
  189. @Counterinsurgency

    (3) would happen naturally without 2 things: Large-scale immigration and Socialism.
     
    Things have a way of working themselves out.

    The late USSR (post 1970, let's say) had a manufacturing sector that took valuable natural resources and converted them into very low value manufactured items. As a direct result, citizens of the USSR were, to quote an article of the time, "the poorest white people on the planet." It was extrapolated that, by AD 2000 or so, India would have a higher per-capita income than the USSR. Western articles pointed out that the USSR had become "stuck in the 1930s," and, in fact, after the brief attempt at reform under Khrushchev, that had indeed happened. The USSR was, essentially, unable to exit from a wartime economy devoted to preparing for WW II [1].
    As everybody knows, this problem was settled with maximum brute force and massive ignorance during the 1990s by firing the entire manufacturing sector. "Oligarchs" and the Russian Mafia executed the downsizing, with some monitoring and participation by the KGB, since these were the only social groups available who were motivated and capable enough to execute the downsizing. When it comes to demolition and hurting massive numbers of people, nothing matches billionaire thieves, organized crime, and the secret police. It's sort of like Tammany Hall. They might have been very destructive, but the _did_ govern New York City when no other organization could, and the city not only lived through the experience, but did rather well economically.

    So, now the analogy with the US.

    Having lived through it, and had some good seats at a few of the crucial events, my summary of the post WW II time interval is that the US base population (all classes) used their political power to maximize their income. Period. Some did better than other, but that was always the theme. Industrial labor unions used their political power to maximize wages [2]. So did the corporations. So did the welfare recipients. The middle class tried to maximize its wages, but hit had been hard hit by WW II and the Korean War, was disorganized, and was treated as a cross between the immoral and the obsolete.

    During the first part of this process, up until c.a. AD 1970, the large corporate unions reaped the most, with the large corporations being in second place. Welfare recipients made out well in comparison to similar people to other countries, but not in comparison with domestic groups.
    Starting in the mid to late AD1960s, most technical innovation was stopped. Tort laws were changed to make corporations more liable for injuries. The Bell system was broken up by the Federal Judiciary, which destroyed Bell Labs, and other corporate R&D centers were closed down soon thereafter. Work in microelectronics was continued and expanded, but even at the time it was clear that this was largely to improve surveillance of the population.

    The large corporations became economically unproductive, and became worth less than the market value their assets [3]. "Corporate raiders" bought the company and sold the assets. Corporate labor unions became less able to extract high wages, and gradually became much less influential. Corporate management had also become political and unproductive. The Xerox fiasco, which gave away the mouse / windows system to whoever would take it, was just one example [4]. Typically, corporate management was so insensate that corporate R&D labs produced nothing for the corporation, but billions in spin0ffs. Both corporate management _and_ union labor had become unproductive -- much like that in the USSR.

    During the decline of the corporations, the corporate vote was replaced by the welfare vote, which was a lot cheaper per vote than a labor union/ corporate management vote. In fact, the corporations ended up paying both parties for the continued existence of the corporations [5].

    OK, then. More sectors (education, research, space travel (until recently), Protestant churches, local control of schools, etc.) I could talk about, but the same thing happened in all: Secular political control became more important over time, and productivity (in terms of state goals) dropped like a lead plummet into a cesspool. Reliance on cheap votes -- welfare votes -- became dominant.

    Present day Republicans actually believe that they exist to gull the productive population into being productive. They are a sort of leisure time activity of the Democrats. The Democrats have a monopoly on cheap votes, so they'll rule forever.

    But they won't.

    The status quo party in the USSR failed c.a. AD 1990. The status quo party in the US is failing right now. Same process -- massive loss of legitimacy, wide scale disbelief in pro-status quo information, nothing government does is productive, "old reliable" political tricks become ineffective and new political tricks aren't invented to replace them, etc. Personnel quality in government is abyssal (almost literally -- see https://animals.howstuffworks.com/marine-life/10-weird-creatures-from-mariana-trench5.htm and compare with political leadership).

    In very broad systems terms, industrial society has failed because, since the political domination post-WW II, R specialist populations out compete K specialist populations. The was not the case within industrial societies pre-AD 1900 [6].

    It follows, therefore, that either this failure to support K populations well end, or that industrial society will end. In the USSR, the failure to support K populations _did_ end, with maximum brutality and waste, but it ended. It will end here also, and we can see it ending right now.

    It would appear that the critical point will be reached when the political process is unable to pay for vote farms. At this point, the US governments at various levels will become bankrupt (as did the Soviet government in the late AD 1960s), and the political system will change, probably towards regional "strong men". Think of it as reversion to a very crude kind of Federalism. It is very unlikely that cities will do well in this transition [7].

    Trump might or might not save himself. The transition will be a lot less brutal if it has good leadership, so I strongly favor Trump saving himself. His opposition (the US Establishment) would simply do what the USSR's establishment did, and let the ship of state drift into a lee shore.

    And that's it. There is a tide, a zeitgeist, an emergent systems property, here, that is not exactly bigger than humanity, but is more of a property of humanity. Watch it and try not to get caught in the turbulence. Hell, if you can, you might even try surfing.

    Counterinsurgency


    1] the Soviets did a very good job of that, BTW. Their logistics system was considerably superior to that of the West, they had dual purpose everything, such as highways intended for use as landing strips, police vehicles that could be changed to armored personnel carriers, and so on. Cost them a mint, but if Hitler had invaded again they'd have been ready for him. How much their preparations would have bought them given Soviet doctrine for nuclear weapons use (~500 tactical nuclear weapons slated for W. Germany, for example, was a figure released from Soviet archives) is a very good question, but if AD 1942 had ever rolled around again, they'd have been in really good shape.

    2] A popular joke by the 1970s was: "All I want is less work, and more money for not doing it"

    3] The pulp magazine distribution companies, for example, became worth less than the value of the real estate that their urban distribution sites occupied.

    4] And, yes, I was close enough to see what was happening. I wouldn’t want to say that corporate management was composed of purblind fools, and fortunately the fact is so obvious that I don’t have to. Unfortunately, the quality of management has since declined.

    5] Tucker Carlson.
    _Ship of Fools_.
    2018.
    Carlson doesn't exactly phrase it as I have. What he does say is that corporations are politically allied with both Republicans and Democrats, are leading donors to both parties, and have highly favorable laws in return. Note, however, that PG&E is getting looted as we speak because of bad forestry practices by the State of California. The larger corporations are being propped up by various levels of government, but it isn't at all clear who is in charge. Immigration, for example, does not help corporations directly. Does anybody really think that Silicon Valley really needs Indian personnel managers, or that firing James Damore was getting rid of deadwood? More like the corporations are giving cover to the importation of yet more Democratic voters, which would be a payment _to_ politics rather than a benefit _from_ politics.

    6] Gregory Clarke.
    _A farewell to Alms_
    2007.

    7] Gregory Copley.
    _UnCivilization: Urban Geopolitics in a Time of Chaos_.
    2012.

    This is one of the best summaries of the decline and fall of the Soviet empire I’ve ever seen.  If you have a blog, you could do well by expanding this summary and linking to it.  Or turn it into a book.

  190. @Tyrion 2
    Honestly, mate, I am torn up with the guilt of mocking you but, over the course of this mult-threaded discussion, you went too far, and everyone has a limit to their patience.

    Nonetheless, what I've done is mean-spirited and I am therefore sorry for my poor behaviour.

    I wish you the best and accept that you may need to find a way to escalate again, so I will try my best not to react to it.

    Again, sorry. I will endeavour to be more gracious in the future.

    Using a sock puppet is not looked upon kindly here.

  191. @Counterinsurgency

    (3) would happen naturally without 2 things: Large-scale immigration and Socialism.
     
    Things have a way of working themselves out.

    The late USSR (post 1970, let's say) had a manufacturing sector that took valuable natural resources and converted them into very low value manufactured items. As a direct result, citizens of the USSR were, to quote an article of the time, "the poorest white people on the planet." It was extrapolated that, by AD 2000 or so, India would have a higher per-capita income than the USSR. Western articles pointed out that the USSR had become "stuck in the 1930s," and, in fact, after the brief attempt at reform under Khrushchev, that had indeed happened. The USSR was, essentially, unable to exit from a wartime economy devoted to preparing for WW II [1].
    As everybody knows, this problem was settled with maximum brute force and massive ignorance during the 1990s by firing the entire manufacturing sector. "Oligarchs" and the Russian Mafia executed the downsizing, with some monitoring and participation by the KGB, since these were the only social groups available who were motivated and capable enough to execute the downsizing. When it comes to demolition and hurting massive numbers of people, nothing matches billionaire thieves, organized crime, and the secret police. It's sort of like Tammany Hall. They might have been very destructive, but the _did_ govern New York City when no other organization could, and the city not only lived through the experience, but did rather well economically.

    So, now the analogy with the US.

    Having lived through it, and had some good seats at a few of the crucial events, my summary of the post WW II time interval is that the US base population (all classes) used their political power to maximize their income. Period. Some did better than other, but that was always the theme. Industrial labor unions used their political power to maximize wages [2]. So did the corporations. So did the welfare recipients. The middle class tried to maximize its wages, but hit had been hard hit by WW II and the Korean War, was disorganized, and was treated as a cross between the immoral and the obsolete.

    During the first part of this process, up until c.a. AD 1970, the large corporate unions reaped the most, with the large corporations being in second place. Welfare recipients made out well in comparison to similar people to other countries, but not in comparison with domestic groups.
    Starting in the mid to late AD1960s, most technical innovation was stopped. Tort laws were changed to make corporations more liable for injuries. The Bell system was broken up by the Federal Judiciary, which destroyed Bell Labs, and other corporate R&D centers were closed down soon thereafter. Work in microelectronics was continued and expanded, but even at the time it was clear that this was largely to improve surveillance of the population.

    The large corporations became economically unproductive, and became worth less than the market value their assets [3]. "Corporate raiders" bought the company and sold the assets. Corporate labor unions became less able to extract high wages, and gradually became much less influential. Corporate management had also become political and unproductive. The Xerox fiasco, which gave away the mouse / windows system to whoever would take it, was just one example [4]. Typically, corporate management was so insensate that corporate R&D labs produced nothing for the corporation, but billions in spin0ffs. Both corporate management _and_ union labor had become unproductive -- much like that in the USSR.

    During the decline of the corporations, the corporate vote was replaced by the welfare vote, which was a lot cheaper per vote than a labor union/ corporate management vote. In fact, the corporations ended up paying both parties for the continued existence of the corporations [5].

    OK, then. More sectors (education, research, space travel (until recently), Protestant churches, local control of schools, etc.) I could talk about, but the same thing happened in all: Secular political control became more important over time, and productivity (in terms of state goals) dropped like a lead plummet into a cesspool. Reliance on cheap votes -- welfare votes -- became dominant.

    Present day Republicans actually believe that they exist to gull the productive population into being productive. They are a sort of leisure time activity of the Democrats. The Democrats have a monopoly on cheap votes, so they'll rule forever.

    But they won't.

    The status quo party in the USSR failed c.a. AD 1990. The status quo party in the US is failing right now. Same process -- massive loss of legitimacy, wide scale disbelief in pro-status quo information, nothing government does is productive, "old reliable" political tricks become ineffective and new political tricks aren't invented to replace them, etc. Personnel quality in government is abyssal (almost literally -- see https://animals.howstuffworks.com/marine-life/10-weird-creatures-from-mariana-trench5.htm and compare with political leadership).

    In very broad systems terms, industrial society has failed because, since the political domination post-WW II, R specialist populations out compete K specialist populations. The was not the case within industrial societies pre-AD 1900 [6].

    It follows, therefore, that either this failure to support K populations well end, or that industrial society will end. In the USSR, the failure to support K populations _did_ end, with maximum brutality and waste, but it ended. It will end here also, and we can see it ending right now.

    It would appear that the critical point will be reached when the political process is unable to pay for vote farms. At this point, the US governments at various levels will become bankrupt (as did the Soviet government in the late AD 1960s), and the political system will change, probably towards regional "strong men". Think of it as reversion to a very crude kind of Federalism. It is very unlikely that cities will do well in this transition [7].

    Trump might or might not save himself. The transition will be a lot less brutal if it has good leadership, so I strongly favor Trump saving himself. His opposition (the US Establishment) would simply do what the USSR's establishment did, and let the ship of state drift into a lee shore.

    And that's it. There is a tide, a zeitgeist, an emergent systems property, here, that is not exactly bigger than humanity, but is more of a property of humanity. Watch it and try not to get caught in the turbulence. Hell, if you can, you might even try surfing.

    Counterinsurgency


    1] the Soviets did a very good job of that, BTW. Their logistics system was considerably superior to that of the West, they had dual purpose everything, such as highways intended for use as landing strips, police vehicles that could be changed to armored personnel carriers, and so on. Cost them a mint, but if Hitler had invaded again they'd have been ready for him. How much their preparations would have bought them given Soviet doctrine for nuclear weapons use (~500 tactical nuclear weapons slated for W. Germany, for example, was a figure released from Soviet archives) is a very good question, but if AD 1942 had ever rolled around again, they'd have been in really good shape.

    2] A popular joke by the 1970s was: "All I want is less work, and more money for not doing it"

    3] The pulp magazine distribution companies, for example, became worth less than the value of the real estate that their urban distribution sites occupied.

    4] And, yes, I was close enough to see what was happening. I wouldn’t want to say that corporate management was composed of purblind fools, and fortunately the fact is so obvious that I don’t have to. Unfortunately, the quality of management has since declined.

    5] Tucker Carlson.
    _Ship of Fools_.
    2018.
    Carlson doesn't exactly phrase it as I have. What he does say is that corporations are politically allied with both Republicans and Democrats, are leading donors to both parties, and have highly favorable laws in return. Note, however, that PG&E is getting looted as we speak because of bad forestry practices by the State of California. The larger corporations are being propped up by various levels of government, but it isn't at all clear who is in charge. Immigration, for example, does not help corporations directly. Does anybody really think that Silicon Valley really needs Indian personnel managers, or that firing James Damore was getting rid of deadwood? More like the corporations are giving cover to the importation of yet more Democratic voters, which would be a payment _to_ politics rather than a benefit _from_ politics.

    6] Gregory Clarke.
    _A farewell to Alms_
    2007.

    7] Gregory Copley.
    _UnCivilization: Urban Geopolitics in a Time of Chaos_.
    2012.

    The status quo party in the US is failing right now. Same process — massive loss of legitimacy, wide scale disbelief in pro-status quo information, nothing government does is productive, “old reliable” political tricks become ineffective and new political tricks aren’t invented to replace them, etc. Personnel quality in government is abyssal (almost literally — see https://animals.howstuffworks.com/marine-life/10-weird-creatures-from-mariana-trench5.htm and compare with political leadership)

    It would appear that the critical point will be reached when the political process is unable to pay for vote farms. At this point, the US governments at various levels will become bankrupt (as did the Soviet government in the late AD 1960s), and the political system will change, probably towards regional “strong men”. Think of it as reversion to a very crude kind of Federalism. It is very unlikely that cities will do well in this transition

    Watch it and try not to get caught in the turbulence.

    Thoughtful.

    Not to (crudely) push, but, well, in the scenario above, not so hard to imagine a step from “regional strong men” and “crude Federalism” into “crude Confederalism”. Well, perhaps, even a step from there ……
    As for “get caught in the turbulence” I am sure that a lot of people would just love that. Risk/reward, money, POWER…stuff like that.

  192. Anon[409] • Disclaimer says:

    “Now……that also creates sort of a problem re that assertion about being wise. I mean…..no offense, but such an error in judgement doesn’t feel wise at all.”

    Not at all. That’s not how wisdom works. Wisdom is the application of a course of action based upon the facts at hand; facts change, policy changes. No human is immune from error, but only the wise can admit it. That differentiates the wise from the unwise. After all, no one is born with the right views. The wise come by them while the arrogant merely assume they had them all along.

  193. @Talha

    Curious. Would you be in favor of that solution?
     
    Actually I brainstormed this a while back. I think it may work. Basically it is a partition of society where you have a kind of semi-autonomous region or so (run a lot like the millet system under the Ottomans), say, a mini-state, district, etc.

    They have their own system and with minimum input from the federal level. The only thing the federal does is collect taxes from the local government and is charge of external security of the country as a whole. The education, religion, healthcare, welfare, roads and anything else is left up to them. Bilateral agreed upon cultural exchanges (in the form of music, food, arts festivals) could/should be encouraged.

    The top brass of the local government would have their salaries paid by the federal government to ensure loyalty. They would have full authorization to deal with any terrorism threats and the federal would turn a blind eye as to how they get it done. One thing would be clear; with any act of terrorism coming out of that district targeting France-proper, the local government would be held responsible; cutting salaries, imprisonment, etc. Same with any attacks on religious minorities within their districts.

    Vassal state? Yup.

    Another possibility; local governance/security could be outsourced through an agreement with the Algerian or Moroccan governments (or whatever constitutes the majority of the local population). There would only be local gendarmes and nothing specifically heavy-military (forget any air force, tanks, etc. - maybe local coastal patrol boats are OK). French military have the option to liaison with and "embed" at any time they want for supervisory and/or training. Again, with the clarification that those governments would be on the hook for any attacks on the rest of France. If tensions flare up, traffic in and out of the districts could be strictly monitored and identified and only those passing security vetting could get through the span of the area declared the DMZ for work or whatever (with proper GPS tracking) and daily curfews for them to get back into their district from the rest of France-proper would be strictly enforced. If things turn out amiable because tensions are resolved by putting a little distance between the disparate populations, even better and less restrictions can continue to be the norm.

    It could work. If successful, think of something along the lines of a messier version of Cueta on the North African coast. Worst case scenario, looks like Gaza.

    For a previous attempt to learn lessons from, look up the integration of Bosniaks into the Austro-Hungarian Empire*:
    https://ww1.habsburger.net/en/chapters/sharia-under-double-eagle-austria-hungary-and-bosnian-muslims

    Peace.

    *Restoration of the French Crown may, in fact, be a preferable antecedent to the arrangement.

    Hehehe…..nice…nice.

    Actually I brainstormed this a while back. I think it may work.

    You most definitely did.

    Basically it is a partition of society where you have a kind of semi-autonomous region or so (run a lot like the millet system under the Ottomans), say, a mini-state, district, etc.

    They have their own system and with minimum input from the federal level. The only thing the federal does is collect taxes from the local government and is charge of external security of the country as a whole. The education, religion, healthcare, welfare, roads and anything else is left up to them. Bilateral agreed upon cultural exchanges (in the form of music, food, arts festivals) could/should be encouraged.

    The top brass of the local government would have their salaries paid by the federal government to ensure loyalty. They would have full authorization to deal with any terrorism threats and the federal would turn a blind eye as to how they get it done. One thing would be clear; with any act of terrorism coming out of that district targeting France-proper, the local government would be held responsible; cutting salaries, imprisonment, etc. Same with any attacks on religious minorities within their districts.

    Vassal state? Yup.

    Another possibility; local governance/security could be outsourced through an agreement with the Algerian or Moroccan governments (or whatever constitutes the majority of the local population). There would only be local gendarmes and nothing specifically heavy-military (forget any air force, tanks, etc. – maybe local coastal patrol boats are OK). French military have the option to liaison with and “embed” at any time they want for supervisory and/or training. Again, with the clarification that those governments would be on the hook for any attacks on the rest of France. If tensions flare up, traffic in and out of the districts could be strictly monitored and identified and only those passing security vetting could get through the span of the area declared the DMZ for work or whatever (with proper GPS tracking) and daily curfews for them to get back into their district from the rest of France-proper would be strictly enforced. If things turn out amiable because tensions are resolved by putting a little distance between the disparate populations, even better and less restrictions can continue to be the norm.

    It could work. If successful, think of something along the lines of a messier version of Cueta on the North African coast. Worst case scenario, looks like Gaza.

    Well done. ……compliments, really.

    Well, except those examples from Balkans. Let’s leave it there.

    You’ve definitely proven the rule that a smart enemy could be more useful than a dumb comrade.

    Hell, maybe WNs could even hire you as a consultant. Not even joking.

    • Replies: @Talha

    Well, except those examples from Balkans.
     
    Unfortunately, they really didn't have that long to test everything out - WW1 broke out pretty soon after (well, definitely because of the Balkans so I can see your point) and the entire enterprise went downhill. It would have been an interesting experiment.

    The Russia-Chechnya relationship is an interesting example as well.


    maybe WNs could even hire you as a consultant
     
    Nope - not interested; that's called a sell-out where I come from. I'm happy to give advice from my reading of history (a lot of what I suggest is really a rip-off from what many Muslim sovereigns offered non-Muslim peoples - updated for modern times, of course) if it helps direct people to a solution that accommodates the need of the maximum number of people and helps resolve the situation without bloodshed. Something needs to change...

    Peace.

  194. @Tyrion 2

    It is nice to know that I may not have to spend years with the regular military first
     
    Special Operations do not recruit warfighters from any place other than the military. There is no direct entry.

    This is known to all involved.

    You only need to find someone, in real life, of proven calibre and they'll confirm.

    I would instead suggest you apply for a commission in the infantry, given your educational background, but it sounds like you want to kick down doors yourself!

    This can happen for a commissioned person in SF but it will be much rarer as your talents will best be used doing that. Rather it is better that you be constantly planning and have enough distance on any action that you can see the bigger picture.

    In which case, get very fit and go in as a private. I can suggest how you get the appropriate fitness, but, basically, if you achieve reasonable upper body fitness, can carry a lot of weight on your back a long way and can run 8 X 800m intervals in a row, with a short break, and to absolute-going-blind best effort each then you'll be fine. If you do the last one, you will likely get very fit very fast, though I suggest a fair number of days rest in between. Then again, everyone adapts to fitness regimes differently, so keep an open mind and execrise at least in some way every other day.

    Your obvious education and intelligence will swiftly be recognised, and if you're very fit as well, then you'll be either offered a route to a commission or pushed very strongly towards the Special Forces.

    There is a chance that your "management" will be dreadful. If so, remember that your career is your own and that no one will care for it as much as you should. Don't overcompensate either - you'll need your first Chevron to apply internally and that'll come quickest if you're humble, willing to learn and are always seen to be genuinely caring for, and helping those, less capable.

    Also, remember, that warfighting in a Special Operations role is certainly not for everyone. So take the unavoidable first step of regular military service as a good thing. It will allow you the time and information to make a proper decision not based on what most people have to go on, which is computer games where Spec Ops have unironic nicknames like Ace Killer and Death Bringer...

    Well……if that guy was somebody I cared for I’d say your comment/post is really good and he should take a very good look at it.
    A very good advice, especially for an educated person wishing to join armed forces.

    I just have a feeling (gut, which seldom fails) that here we are having something…..interesting.

    Your post talks about, I guess, British Special Forces. I was thinking about SASR before realizing my mistake.
    Nahh…….here those two are talking about something else.

    Anyway, I tend to skip such chats.

    Now,due to no WNs deeming this conversation important, what would be your take on Talha’s brainstorm here, applied to white “self-determination” in USA?
    See, Yanks don’t see such topics important here; it’s only three of us. Understandable. Hilarious too.

  195. @peterAUS
    Hehehe.....nice...nice.

    Actually I brainstormed this a while back. I think it may work.
     
    You most definitely did.

    Basically it is a partition of society where you have a kind of semi-autonomous region or so (run a lot like the millet system under the Ottomans), say, a mini-state, district, etc.

    They have their own system and with minimum input from the federal level. The only thing the federal does is collect taxes from the local government and is charge of external security of the country as a whole. The education, religion, healthcare, welfare, roads and anything else is left up to them. Bilateral agreed upon cultural exchanges (in the form of music, food, arts festivals) could/should be encouraged.

    The top brass of the local government would have their salaries paid by the federal government to ensure loyalty. They would have full authorization to deal with any terrorism threats and the federal would turn a blind eye as to how they get it done. One thing would be clear; with any act of terrorism coming out of that district targeting France-proper, the local government would be held responsible; cutting salaries, imprisonment, etc. Same with any attacks on religious minorities within their districts.

    Vassal state? Yup.

    Another possibility; local governance/security could be outsourced through an agreement with the Algerian or Moroccan governments (or whatever constitutes the majority of the local population). There would only be local gendarmes and nothing specifically heavy-military (forget any air force, tanks, etc. – maybe local coastal patrol boats are OK). French military have the option to liaison with and “embed” at any time they want for supervisory and/or training. Again, with the clarification that those governments would be on the hook for any attacks on the rest of France. If tensions flare up, traffic in and out of the districts could be strictly monitored and identified and only those passing security vetting could get through the span of the area declared the DMZ for work or whatever (with proper GPS tracking) and daily curfews for them to get back into their district from the rest of France-proper would be strictly enforced. If things turn out amiable because tensions are resolved by putting a little distance between the disparate populations, even better and less restrictions can continue to be the norm.

    It could work. If successful, think of something along the lines of a messier version of Cueta on the North African coast. Worst case scenario, looks like Gaza.
     
    Well done. ......compliments, really.

    Well, except those examples from Balkans. Let's leave it there.

    You've definitely proven the rule that a smart enemy could be more useful than a dumb comrade.

    Hell, maybe WNs could even hire you as a consultant. Not even joking.

    Well, except those examples from Balkans.

    Unfortunately, they really didn’t have that long to test everything out – WW1 broke out pretty soon after (well, definitely because of the Balkans so I can see your point) and the entire enterprise went downhill. It would have been an interesting experiment.

    The Russia-Chechnya relationship is an interesting example as well.

    maybe WNs could even hire you as a consultant

    Nope – not interested; that’s called a sell-out where I come from. I’m happy to give advice from my reading of history (a lot of what I suggest is really a rip-off from what many Muslim sovereigns offered non-Muslim peoples – updated for modern times, of course) if it helps direct people to a solution that accommodates the need of the maximum number of people and helps resolve the situation without bloodshed. Something needs to change…

    Peace.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    This isn't mocking, really isn't.

    It's just

    ....Balkans.....
     
    and

    ....helps resolve the situation without bloodshed.....
     
    I fell of the chair. Man, you'll give me hernia.
  196. @Career
    I went to the recruitment office after reading this and it seems that you're right.

    I said to them that my friend Grim Reaper told me that I could join Special Forces as a warfighter directly. They told me the best that I might likely get would be to join in a cleaning contract, but cleaning contracts were not their business.

    I then asked if I might be promoted to warfighter from cleaning contractor. They then laughed with me. Perhaps they were impressed with my grit?

    I added that my friend Twinkie/Grim Reaper told me I could. They said ok - I had passed the first test, and so they showed off their super soldier nicknames themselves and replied that I must be legit as everyone has got them. Kindly, they gave me mine, which was "Walt", but I don't know what that means. I assume it stands for steely-eyed killer or something.

    Anyway, I decided that they needed to be even more impressed so I took out my own black balaclava and put it on to show them my moves. They laughed at me again, out of respect, I think. Especially when I spun round and proved my ability to "180 no scope" the enemy. Obvious approval followed as they all rolled on the floor crying with what looked like laughter but must have been joy at my skills!

    I proceeded to list all of my martial arts qualifications. I've seen all the 3 Matrix movies after all. I've actually even seen the Animatrix.

    I think that sealed the deal as they replied that I had shown them more than enough and that they'd be contacting me, when I'm needed, through special means, and in a special place. So now I'm just like my hero Twinkie - a super soldier of the elite of the elite.

    Thank you!

    Smooth.
    Compliments.

    You, hopefully, saved a couple of misguided, poor, kids from making a terrible mistake.
    There are outfits out there looking for them, and (mis)using them to the full.

    Good work.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    You realize "Career" is "Tyrion 2," right? Sock-puppetry isn't "smooth." It's just a deceptive, trollish attempt to get serious people to engage, because his original handle has a poor reputation (to say the least).

    Furthermore, the proprietor of this site takes a dim view of such deception.

  197. @Talha

    Well, except those examples from Balkans.
     
    Unfortunately, they really didn't have that long to test everything out - WW1 broke out pretty soon after (well, definitely because of the Balkans so I can see your point) and the entire enterprise went downhill. It would have been an interesting experiment.

    The Russia-Chechnya relationship is an interesting example as well.


    maybe WNs could even hire you as a consultant
     
    Nope - not interested; that's called a sell-out where I come from. I'm happy to give advice from my reading of history (a lot of what I suggest is really a rip-off from what many Muslim sovereigns offered non-Muslim peoples - updated for modern times, of course) if it helps direct people to a solution that accommodates the need of the maximum number of people and helps resolve the situation without bloodshed. Something needs to change...

    Peace.

    This isn’t mocking, really isn’t.

    It’s just

    ….Balkans…..

    and

    ….helps resolve the situation without bloodshed…..

    I fell of the chair. Man, you’ll give me hernia.

    • Replies: @Talha
    LOL! OK - you got me there. But, in my defense, the Balkans was just a side note in the bloody-pulp-fest known as WW1 - it was just one of the catalists.

    Anyway, regarding:

    See, Yanks don’t see such topics important here
     
    I can tell you that I am getting more impressed by some of the conversations starting up among traditional-minded Muslims, a few examples:
    1) A few days ago, I had an exchange with a few brothers (including some White converts) about this very thing. If Balkanization of the US starts becoming more of a reality, we are already thinking about moving near that Detroit/Toronto nexus point where there are already quite a lot of Muslims. The Chicago area is also Muslim-heavy. "Great Lakes Alliance of Canuckistan" - maybe even "Great Lakes Order of Canuckistan"? There you go. Just a friendly heads up of where not to be if you dislike Muslims.
    2) Had a conversation with a White convert shaykh (Muslim scholar) not too long ago about organizing a White Muslims Conference/Convention like the one held for Black Muslims. The basis is to cater to the specific needs of a growing community that has its own particular concerns and needs. He said he didn't see any problem with it as a concept, but it would naturally grow out organically as that segment of demographics reaches a more critical mass.
    3) One of the Black convert shaykhs I follow on Twitter has been posting videos trashing the Covington Boys and Jussie Smollet hoaxes.

    So, good stuff on the horizon, glad people are at least thinking about these things.

    Not very impressed with the "Yaaasss Queen" Muslim crowd, but they only have space because the wider community is giving them that space; GLAC/GLOC will eventually shut that down. And of course, they don't have kids anyway, so they'll just be bred out.

    Peace.
  198. @Twinkie

    I was looking for something with impact, like paramilitary/direct action.
     
    There is high impact in several of the subfields I listed. Gunslinging is sexy-sounding, but it’s months of training, weeks of preparations, days of mission planning, hours of transport (and walking), all punctuated by very rare minutes of extremely stressful action.

    Although I rarely, if ever, said, “Gee, I wish I had better gunslingers” in that line of work, I certainly said, very often, “I wish I had better (or more accurately, “less f-d up”) intel.”

    I speak a couple of relevant foreign languages at a very high level too, which must help.
     
    Depending on what they are, yes. One of the highly desired critical ones will do. Two is golden and will definitely help to get you in the door.

    It is nice to know that I may not have to spend years with the regular military first.
     
    While that is not impossible, it’s exceedingly difficult unless you have prior mil/intel/LE experience. I hope I did not give you an impression to the contrary.

    Also, it goes without saying that you better have had a very clean, transparent life.

    How much experience do you have with shooting, land navigation, emergency/wilderness medicine, etc.? How fit are you physically?

    This is great information for the callow, but I’m afraid you are casting pearls before swine.

    • Agree: Twinkie
  199. @peterAUS
    This isn't mocking, really isn't.

    It's just

    ....Balkans.....
     
    and

    ....helps resolve the situation without bloodshed.....
     
    I fell of the chair. Man, you'll give me hernia.

    LOL! OK – you got me there. But, in my defense, the Balkans was just a side note in the bloody-pulp-fest known as WW1 – it was just one of the catalists.

    Anyway, regarding:

    See, Yanks don’t see such topics important here

    I can tell you that I am getting more impressed by some of the conversations starting up among traditional-minded Muslims, a few examples:
    1) A few days ago, I had an exchange with a few brothers (including some White converts) about this very thing. If Balkanization of the US starts becoming more of a reality, we are already thinking about moving near that Detroit/Toronto nexus point where there are already quite a lot of Muslims. The Chicago area is also Muslim-heavy. “Great Lakes Alliance of Canuckistan” – maybe even “Great Lakes Order of Canuckistan”? There you go. Just a friendly heads up of where not to be if you dislike Muslims.
    2) Had a conversation with a White convert shaykh (Muslim scholar) not too long ago about organizing a White Muslims Conference/Convention like the one held for Black Muslims. The basis is to cater to the specific needs of a growing community that has its own particular concerns and needs. He said he didn’t see any problem with it as a concept, but it would naturally grow out organically as that segment of demographics reaches a more critical mass.
    3) One of the Black convert shaykhs I follow on Twitter has been posting videos trashing the Covington Boys and Jussie Smollet hoaxes.

    So, good stuff on the horizon, glad people are at least thinking about these things.

    Not very impressed with the “Yaaasss Queen” Muslim crowd, but they only have space because the wider community is giving them that space; GLAC/GLOC will eventually shut that down. And of course, they don’t have kids anyway, so they’ll just be bred out.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    If Balkanization of the US starts becoming more of a reality, we are already thinking about moving near that Detroit/Toronto nexus point where there are already quite a lot of Muslims.
     
    Toronto also has alot of Christians... and Hindus... and Sikhs... and atheists... and SJWs... and Muslim SJWs. Unless you think you can overtake them, I think that region would be a shitshow.

    Furthermore, how are you going to get through the quite racist and white space between Detroit and Toronto? The people between Toronto and Detroit are definitely the most racist in Ontario.

    Either way, the fact that Muslims are already planning this further proves to me that they do not belong here. You already have your own countries. Why here? Either way - you all must be removed from the Americas. I'm sure you're not all bad people but when the time comes, decisive action must be taken.

    What's unfortunate is that everybody sees it this way except for the majority of Whites. Whites think "all the diversity is coming to live in harmony". Non-whites think "we are here to take the biggest slice of pie possible, and gain control." You don't fool me, nor millions of other White racists (realists) in Ontario, but you fool the vast, vast majority of city slickers who are the ones with the money and the power.
  200. @Twinkie

    I was looking for something with impact, like paramilitary/direct action.
     
    There is high impact in several of the subfields I listed. Gunslinging is sexy-sounding, but it’s months of training, weeks of preparations, days of mission planning, hours of transport (and walking), all punctuated by very rare minutes of extremely stressful action.

    Although I rarely, if ever, said, “Gee, I wish I had better gunslingers” in that line of work, I certainly said, very often, “I wish I had better (or more accurately, “less f-d up”) intel.”

    I speak a couple of relevant foreign languages at a very high level too, which must help.
     
    Depending on what they are, yes. One of the highly desired critical ones will do. Two is golden and will definitely help to get you in the door.

    It is nice to know that I may not have to spend years with the regular military first.
     
    While that is not impossible, it’s exceedingly difficult unless you have prior mil/intel/LE experience. I hope I did not give you an impression to the contrary.

    Also, it goes without saying that you better have had a very clean, transparent life.

    How much experience do you have with shooting, land navigation, emergency/wilderness medicine, etc.? How fit are you physically?

    At the same time, there is the old expression – I cast my bread upon the water.

  201. ….the Balkans was just a side note in the bloody-pulp-fest known as WW1…

    It was……from a global point of view.
    And…yet…I have a feeling that the locals, especially in Serbia, fared probably the worst in Europe.
    And, the same place was, definitely, a side note in WW2. I still believe that the same rule (locals) apply. Don’t think that inter-ethnic/inter-religious/whatever butchery was worse anywhere else.
    And, the last but not the least, the last period…’91-99. The ONLY place in Europe after WW2 where ethnic/religions “unpleasantness” were done by air strikes, MRLRs, heavy artillery and such.Well, until Ukraine, that is.

    I personally just feel that “laboratory” would be useful for this and related topics.

    I can tell you that I am getting more impressed by some of the conversations starting up among traditional-minded Muslims, a few examples:
    1) A few days ago, I had an exchange with a few brothers (including some White converts)

    .ah !…..this is just terrible.
    Be back after a bit. Coffee time to recover…..

    Still sipping the coffee. Takes time…..age I guess.

    O.K. Back.

    …..about this very thing. If Balkanization of the US starts becoming more of a reality, we are already thinking about moving near that Detroit/Toronto nexus point where there are already quite a lot of Muslims. The Chicago area is also Muslim-heavy. “Great Lakes Alliance of Canuckistan” – maybe even “Great Lakes Order of Canuckistan”? There you go. Just a friendly heads up of where not to be if you dislike Muslims.

    Well….hehehe…..anyway. Thanks for the heads up.

    2) Had a conversation with a White convert

    amhphoh…..again !
    Be back after watch that dervish charge episode at Omdurman. From two movies…..

    shaykh (Muslim scholar) not too long ago about organizing a White Muslims Conference/Convention like the one held for Black Muslims. The basis is to cater to the specific needs of a growing community that has its own particular concerns and needs. He said he didn’t see any problem with it as a concept, but it would naturally grow out organically as that segment of demographics reaches a more critical mass.

    Hehehe….O.K.
    I’ll definitely have to rewatch some documentaries about Srebrenica today.

    3) One of the Black convert shaykhs I follow on Twitter has been posting videos trashing the Covington Boys and Jussie Smollet hoaxes.

    Nice fellow. For now.

    So, good stuff on the horizon, glad people are at least thinking about these things.

    Looks that way.

    Not very impressed with the “Yaaasss Queen” Muslim crowd, but they only have space because the wider community is giving them that space; GLAC/GLOC will eventually shut that down. And of course, they don’t have kids anyway, so they’ll just be bred out.

    I see.

    Well, good comment.

  202. @peterAUS
    Smooth.
    Compliments.

    You, hopefully, saved a couple of misguided, poor, kids from making a terrible mistake.
    There are outfits out there looking for them, and (mis)using them to the full.

    Good work.

    You realize “Career” is “Tyrion 2,” right? Sock-puppetry isn’t “smooth.” It’s just a deceptive, trollish attempt to get serious people to engage, because his original handle has a poor reputation (to say the least).

    Furthermore, the proprietor of this site takes a dim view of such deception.

    • Replies: @iffen
    Furthermore, the proprietor of this site takes a dim view of such deception.

    So what? What does he do to eliminate it? You put too much faith in the "system."
    , @peterAUS

    You realize “Career” is “Tyrion 2,” right?
     
    No. Is he? If you say so. Don't care, really.

    Sock-puppetry isn’t “smooth.” It’s just a deceptive, trollish attempt to get serious people to engage, because his original handle has a poor reputation (to say the least).
     
    Be that as it may, he still got you.

    Listen, for a guy who claims to come from special operations community, counter terrorism in particular, you really have poor interpersonal skills.

    See, I wasn't one of them, ever. But, I sometimes worked with them, sometimes for them and sometimes they even worked for me.
    I know the type. And I do know the topic. O.K. admit, a bit out of latest developments, but the fundamentals are still good there.
    No offense, but you don't come across as one of them. Maybe you are a an ex=military, maybe even a good guy (as you say a bit damaged, but, then, who isn't from that "industry"....), but, something is missing there.


    Furthermore, the proprietor of this site takes a dim view of such deception.
     
    Be that as it may he gave an excellent advice to anyone wishing to get, PROPERLY, into that role and do that job PROPERLY.

    In "my time", or so I say, it was Tier 1 at one hand and paramilitaries at the totally other hand of that job description. Paramilitaries being, most of the time, local butchers, psychopaths, criminals and similar dregs from the bottom of society.
    And, looks like, it's like that now.......only, this time, the psychopath are "own" people, not some Third/Fourth world killers.

    So, you are fundamentally correct. A guy from a street CAN get into counter terrorist role as a shooter. Only the "terrorists" he'd be dealing with will be some poor wretches along US power projection sphere.
    I know that type. Don't mind that. Better they do "that" overseas than here. If they don't come back even better.

    But, should a decent person really want to get into that role, well, the post 172 stays. Simple as that.
    I was, or so I say, into combat sports, was competitive shot...blah...blah....but I never applied for them. My best mate was one of them. I just knew I wasn't good enough. To use "civilian" speak:I was, say, a regional level player. For that, really, you had to be at a country level. Talent. From top talent physical capability, through hard grit to utter determination. Utter, bordering on suicide.
    Well, in my time anyway. When the enemy was supposed to be another state player and/or top international terrorists (also selected, trained and sponsored by state players). Not as today....some goatherder in the middle of nowhere, apparently.

    And, my "friend", there is something more. It's sort of unpleasant truth...hehe....
    I am not, really, impressed by all that "special forces" world today. Not at all.
    I am much more impressed, for example, by militiamen, from both sides, in the war in Ukraine.
    Make of that what you will.

    , @Mr. Rational
    IDGAF, it was hilarious.
  203. @Twinkie
    You realize "Career" is "Tyrion 2," right? Sock-puppetry isn't "smooth." It's just a deceptive, trollish attempt to get serious people to engage, because his original handle has a poor reputation (to say the least).

    Furthermore, the proprietor of this site takes a dim view of such deception.

    Furthermore, the proprietor of this site takes a dim view of such deception.

    So what? What does he do to eliminate it? You put too much faith in the “system.”

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    So what? What does he do to eliminate it? You put too much faith in the “system.”
     
    It's in bad form to put yourself in another man's house and not abide by his house rules.

    Whether the owner of the house enforces the rules or not (and how efficaciously) doesn't change that fact, and is an entirely separate matter from whether or not one has "too much faith in the 'system.'"

    This is the fundamental difference between civilized people and those who are just parasites/opportunists who operate on "what can I get away with?"
  204. @iffen
    Furthermore, the proprietor of this site takes a dim view of such deception.

    So what? What does he do to eliminate it? You put too much faith in the "system."

    So what? What does he do to eliminate it? You put too much faith in the “system.”

    It’s in bad form to put yourself in another man’s house and not abide by his house rules.

    Whether the owner of the house enforces the rules or not (and how efficaciously) doesn’t change that fact, and is an entirely separate matter from whether or not one has “too much faith in the ‘system.’”

    This is the fundamental difference between civilized people and those who are just parasites/opportunists who operate on “what can I get away with?”

    • Replies: @Talha
    I side with Twinkie on this one; we are all adults here (I assume), shouldn't be acting like Lord of the Flies.

    Peace.
    , @iffen
    He could eliminate sock puppets if he wanted to. I say that with little confidence because some of the features don't work at this site and he is supposed to be some sort of computer whiz.

    I think of you as a real person. When you start writing unanimous when you mean anonymous, I worry about you.

    I do not feel confidant in saying who is who.

    Career is an obvious troll. Ty writes many comments and never says anything of importance.

    Semper fi
    , @Audacious Epigone
    When the IPs are different I'm not sure how to easily manage it via WP, sorry. Lots of good information from Twinkie all the same. I appreciate his putting it out there even if it was offered in good faith in response to something asked in bad faith.
  205. “the proprietor of this site takes a dim view of such deception.”

    RIP Priss Factor.

  206. @Twinkie

    So what? What does he do to eliminate it? You put too much faith in the “system.”
     
    It's in bad form to put yourself in another man's house and not abide by his house rules.

    Whether the owner of the house enforces the rules or not (and how efficaciously) doesn't change that fact, and is an entirely separate matter from whether or not one has "too much faith in the 'system.'"

    This is the fundamental difference between civilized people and those who are just parasites/opportunists who operate on "what can I get away with?"

    I side with Twinkie on this one; we are all adults here (I assume), shouldn’t be acting like Lord of the Flies.

    Peace.

  207. @Twinkie

    So what? What does he do to eliminate it? You put too much faith in the “system.”
     
    It's in bad form to put yourself in another man's house and not abide by his house rules.

    Whether the owner of the house enforces the rules or not (and how efficaciously) doesn't change that fact, and is an entirely separate matter from whether or not one has "too much faith in the 'system.'"

    This is the fundamental difference between civilized people and those who are just parasites/opportunists who operate on "what can I get away with?"

    He could eliminate sock puppets if he wanted to. I say that with little confidence because some of the features don’t work at this site and he is supposed to be some sort of computer whiz.

    I think of you as a real person. When you start writing unanimous when you mean anonymous, I worry about you.

    I do not feel confidant in saying who is who.

    Career is an obvious troll. Ty writes many comments and never says anything of importance.

    Semper fi

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    When you start writing unanimous when you mean anonymous, I worry about you.
     
    Seriously? You are chasing me around to play gotcha with a simple spelling slip of a moment? I am not writing a thesis here, just contemporaneous stream of thought.
  208. @Twinkie
    You realize "Career" is "Tyrion 2," right? Sock-puppetry isn't "smooth." It's just a deceptive, trollish attempt to get serious people to engage, because his original handle has a poor reputation (to say the least).

    Furthermore, the proprietor of this site takes a dim view of such deception.

    You realize “Career” is “Tyrion 2,” right?

    No. Is he? If you say so. Don’t care, really.

    Sock-puppetry isn’t “smooth.” It’s just a deceptive, trollish attempt to get serious people to engage, because his original handle has a poor reputation (to say the least).

    Be that as it may, he still got you.

    Listen, for a guy who claims to come from special operations community, counter terrorism in particular, you really have poor interpersonal skills.

    See, I wasn’t one of them, ever. But, I sometimes worked with them, sometimes for them and sometimes they even worked for me.
    I know the type. And I do know the topic. O.K. admit, a bit out of latest developments, but the fundamentals are still good there.
    No offense, but you don’t come across as one of them. Maybe you are a an ex=military, maybe even a good guy (as you say a bit damaged, but, then, who isn’t from that “industry”….), but, something is missing there.

    Furthermore, the proprietor of this site takes a dim view of such deception.

    Be that as it may he gave an excellent advice to anyone wishing to get, PROPERLY, into that role and do that job PROPERLY.

    In “my time”, or so I say, it was Tier 1 at one hand and paramilitaries at the totally other hand of that job description. Paramilitaries being, most of the time, local butchers, psychopaths, criminals and similar dregs from the bottom of society.
    And, looks like, it’s like that now…….only, this time, the psychopath are “own” people, not some Third/Fourth world killers.

    So, you are fundamentally correct. A guy from a street CAN get into counter terrorist role as a shooter. Only the “terrorists” he’d be dealing with will be some poor wretches along US power projection sphere.
    I know that type. Don’t mind that. Better they do “that” overseas than here. If they don’t come back even better.

    But, should a decent person really want to get into that role, well, the post 172 stays. Simple as that.
    I was, or so I say, into combat sports, was competitive shot…blah…blah….but I never applied for them. My best mate was one of them. I just knew I wasn’t good enough. To use “civilian” speak:I was, say, a regional level player. For that, really, you had to be at a country level. Talent. From top talent physical capability, through hard grit to utter determination. Utter, bordering on suicide.
    Well, in my time anyway. When the enemy was supposed to be another state player and/or top international terrorists (also selected, trained and sponsored by state players). Not as today….some goatherder in the middle of nowhere, apparently.

    And, my “friend”, there is something more. It’s sort of unpleasant truth…hehe….
    I am not, really, impressed by all that “special forces” world today. Not at all.
    I am much more impressed, for example, by militiamen, from both sides, in the war in Ukraine.
    Make of that what you will.

    • Replies: @iffen
    Be that as it may, he still got you.

    Bull shit, steaming pile.
    , @Twinkie

    Be that as it may, he still got you.
     
    You are going to have to elaborate on that for me.

    a guy who claims to come from special operations community, counter terrorism in particular
     
    Read, very carefully, what I wrote about myself. Read no more, or less, into what I wrote.

    In “my time”, or so I say, it was Tier 1 at one hand and paramilitaries at the totally other hand of that job description. Paramilitaries being, most of the time, local butchers, psychopaths, criminals and similar dregs from the bottom of society.
     
    1. You don’t know jack. You didn’t even know that U.S. armed forces could not legally operate on U.S. soil for LE purposes.

    2. And your moronic understanding of “paramilitary” in this context tells me, yet again, that you are a poser. Let me give you an example: https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/clandestine/cmo-specialist.html#job-details-tab1

    “Paramilitary” means having military-like structure and equipment, but under civilian organization.


    you really have poor interpersonal skills.
     
    Because I’m curt with a moron who spews rambling garbage like it’s some sort of wisdom?
  209. @peterAUS

    You realize “Career” is “Tyrion 2,” right?
     
    No. Is he? If you say so. Don't care, really.

    Sock-puppetry isn’t “smooth.” It’s just a deceptive, trollish attempt to get serious people to engage, because his original handle has a poor reputation (to say the least).
     
    Be that as it may, he still got you.

    Listen, for a guy who claims to come from special operations community, counter terrorism in particular, you really have poor interpersonal skills.

    See, I wasn't one of them, ever. But, I sometimes worked with them, sometimes for them and sometimes they even worked for me.
    I know the type. And I do know the topic. O.K. admit, a bit out of latest developments, but the fundamentals are still good there.
    No offense, but you don't come across as one of them. Maybe you are a an ex=military, maybe even a good guy (as you say a bit damaged, but, then, who isn't from that "industry"....), but, something is missing there.


    Furthermore, the proprietor of this site takes a dim view of such deception.
     
    Be that as it may he gave an excellent advice to anyone wishing to get, PROPERLY, into that role and do that job PROPERLY.

    In "my time", or so I say, it was Tier 1 at one hand and paramilitaries at the totally other hand of that job description. Paramilitaries being, most of the time, local butchers, psychopaths, criminals and similar dregs from the bottom of society.
    And, looks like, it's like that now.......only, this time, the psychopath are "own" people, not some Third/Fourth world killers.

    So, you are fundamentally correct. A guy from a street CAN get into counter terrorist role as a shooter. Only the "terrorists" he'd be dealing with will be some poor wretches along US power projection sphere.
    I know that type. Don't mind that. Better they do "that" overseas than here. If they don't come back even better.

    But, should a decent person really want to get into that role, well, the post 172 stays. Simple as that.
    I was, or so I say, into combat sports, was competitive shot...blah...blah....but I never applied for them. My best mate was one of them. I just knew I wasn't good enough. To use "civilian" speak:I was, say, a regional level player. For that, really, you had to be at a country level. Talent. From top talent physical capability, through hard grit to utter determination. Utter, bordering on suicide.
    Well, in my time anyway. When the enemy was supposed to be another state player and/or top international terrorists (also selected, trained and sponsored by state players). Not as today....some goatherder in the middle of nowhere, apparently.

    And, my "friend", there is something more. It's sort of unpleasant truth...hehe....
    I am not, really, impressed by all that "special forces" world today. Not at all.
    I am much more impressed, for example, by militiamen, from both sides, in the war in Ukraine.
    Make of that what you will.

    Be that as it may, he still got you.

    Bull shit, steaming pile.

  210. @peterAUS

    You realize “Career” is “Tyrion 2,” right?
     
    No. Is he? If you say so. Don't care, really.

    Sock-puppetry isn’t “smooth.” It’s just a deceptive, trollish attempt to get serious people to engage, because his original handle has a poor reputation (to say the least).
     
    Be that as it may, he still got you.

    Listen, for a guy who claims to come from special operations community, counter terrorism in particular, you really have poor interpersonal skills.

    See, I wasn't one of them, ever. But, I sometimes worked with them, sometimes for them and sometimes they even worked for me.
    I know the type. And I do know the topic. O.K. admit, a bit out of latest developments, but the fundamentals are still good there.
    No offense, but you don't come across as one of them. Maybe you are a an ex=military, maybe even a good guy (as you say a bit damaged, but, then, who isn't from that "industry"....), but, something is missing there.


    Furthermore, the proprietor of this site takes a dim view of such deception.
     
    Be that as it may he gave an excellent advice to anyone wishing to get, PROPERLY, into that role and do that job PROPERLY.

    In "my time", or so I say, it was Tier 1 at one hand and paramilitaries at the totally other hand of that job description. Paramilitaries being, most of the time, local butchers, psychopaths, criminals and similar dregs from the bottom of society.
    And, looks like, it's like that now.......only, this time, the psychopath are "own" people, not some Third/Fourth world killers.

    So, you are fundamentally correct. A guy from a street CAN get into counter terrorist role as a shooter. Only the "terrorists" he'd be dealing with will be some poor wretches along US power projection sphere.
    I know that type. Don't mind that. Better they do "that" overseas than here. If they don't come back even better.

    But, should a decent person really want to get into that role, well, the post 172 stays. Simple as that.
    I was, or so I say, into combat sports, was competitive shot...blah...blah....but I never applied for them. My best mate was one of them. I just knew I wasn't good enough. To use "civilian" speak:I was, say, a regional level player. For that, really, you had to be at a country level. Talent. From top talent physical capability, through hard grit to utter determination. Utter, bordering on suicide.
    Well, in my time anyway. When the enemy was supposed to be another state player and/or top international terrorists (also selected, trained and sponsored by state players). Not as today....some goatherder in the middle of nowhere, apparently.

    And, my "friend", there is something more. It's sort of unpleasant truth...hehe....
    I am not, really, impressed by all that "special forces" world today. Not at all.
    I am much more impressed, for example, by militiamen, from both sides, in the war in Ukraine.
    Make of that what you will.

    Be that as it may, he still got you.

    You are going to have to elaborate on that for me.

    a guy who claims to come from special operations community, counter terrorism in particular

    Read, very carefully, what I wrote about myself. Read no more, or less, into what I wrote.

    In “my time”, or so I say, it was Tier 1 at one hand and paramilitaries at the totally other hand of that job description. Paramilitaries being, most of the time, local butchers, psychopaths, criminals and similar dregs from the bottom of society.

    1. You don’t know jack. You didn’t even know that U.S. armed forces could not legally operate on U.S. soil for LE purposes.

    2. And your moronic understanding of “paramilitary” in this context tells me, yet again, that you are a poser. Let me give you an example: https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/clandestine/cmo-specialist.html#job-details-tab1

    “Paramilitary” means having military-like structure and equipment, but under civilian organization.

    you really have poor interpersonal skills.

    Because I’m curt with a moron who spews rambling garbage like it’s some sort of wisdom?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    With me:

    When I came back, I was not in a good place physically and emotionally. I had to do significant recovery and rehab, and was very depressed for a while.
    But I will say this: my wife was a trooper through it all and got me out of it. If it wasn’t for her, I don’t think I’d be where I am today. She was very tender when needed and also kicked my ass into gear when appropriate.
     
    With me, bit later:

    You don’t know jack.
    And your moronic understanding of “paramilitary” in this context tells me, yet again, that you are a poser.
    I am curt with a moron who spews rambling garbage...
     
    With actually a fellow who appeared supportive.

    You are chasing me around to play gotcha with a simple spelling slip of a moment? I am not writing a thesis here, just contemporaneous stream of thought.
     
    "Problematic"....... . Or is it "damaged"?

    Good.......luck.......
  211. @iffen
    He could eliminate sock puppets if he wanted to. I say that with little confidence because some of the features don't work at this site and he is supposed to be some sort of computer whiz.

    I think of you as a real person. When you start writing unanimous when you mean anonymous, I worry about you.

    I do not feel confidant in saying who is who.

    Career is an obvious troll. Ty writes many comments and never says anything of importance.

    Semper fi

    When you start writing unanimous when you mean anonymous, I worry about you.

    Seriously? You are chasing me around to play gotcha with a simple spelling slip of a moment? I am not writing a thesis here, just contemporaneous stream of thought.

  212. @Twinkie

    Be that as it may, he still got you.
     
    You are going to have to elaborate on that for me.

    a guy who claims to come from special operations community, counter terrorism in particular
     
    Read, very carefully, what I wrote about myself. Read no more, or less, into what I wrote.

    In “my time”, or so I say, it was Tier 1 at one hand and paramilitaries at the totally other hand of that job description. Paramilitaries being, most of the time, local butchers, psychopaths, criminals and similar dregs from the bottom of society.
     
    1. You don’t know jack. You didn’t even know that U.S. armed forces could not legally operate on U.S. soil for LE purposes.

    2. And your moronic understanding of “paramilitary” in this context tells me, yet again, that you are a poser. Let me give you an example: https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/clandestine/cmo-specialist.html#job-details-tab1

    “Paramilitary” means having military-like structure and equipment, but under civilian organization.


    you really have poor interpersonal skills.
     
    Because I’m curt with a moron who spews rambling garbage like it’s some sort of wisdom?

    With me:

    When I came back, I was not in a good place physically and emotionally. I had to do significant recovery and rehab, and was very depressed for a while.
    But I will say this: my wife was a trooper through it all and got me out of it. If it wasn’t for her, I don’t think I’d be where I am today. She was very tender when needed and also kicked my ass into gear when appropriate.

    With me, bit later:

    You don’t know jack.
    And your moronic understanding of “paramilitary” in this context tells me, yet again, that you are a poser.
    I am curt with a moron who spews rambling garbage…

    With actually a fellow who appeared supportive.

    You are chasing me around to play gotcha with a simple spelling slip of a moment? I am not writing a thesis here, just contemporaneous stream of thought.

    “Problematic”……. . Or is it “damaged”?

    Good…….luck…….

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    B.T.W...

    ...you are a poser...
     
    That statement told me everything I need to know about you.

    Takes sometimes quite some time for your...ahm...characters to "slip".

    Did I say "good luck"? That was just a common courtesy. Didn't mean it, actually.

    Internet.
  213. @peterAUS
    With me:

    When I came back, I was not in a good place physically and emotionally. I had to do significant recovery and rehab, and was very depressed for a while.
    But I will say this: my wife was a trooper through it all and got me out of it. If it wasn’t for her, I don’t think I’d be where I am today. She was very tender when needed and also kicked my ass into gear when appropriate.
     
    With me, bit later:

    You don’t know jack.
    And your moronic understanding of “paramilitary” in this context tells me, yet again, that you are a poser.
    I am curt with a moron who spews rambling garbage...
     
    With actually a fellow who appeared supportive.

    You are chasing me around to play gotcha with a simple spelling slip of a moment? I am not writing a thesis here, just contemporaneous stream of thought.
     
    "Problematic"....... . Or is it "damaged"?

    Good.......luck.......

    B.T.W…

    …you are a poser…

    That statement told me everything I need to know about you.

    Takes sometimes quite some time for your…ahm…characters to “slip”.

    Did I say “good luck”? That was just a common courtesy. Didn’t mean it, actually.

    Internet.

    • Troll: Twinkie
    • Replies: @iffen
    Twinkie's not good at dialogue (interpersonal skills as you say), but I knew that, so I should have stayed out.

    That said, would you explain why you think that this is important enough to mention?


    Be that as it may, he still got you.
  214. @peterAUS
    B.T.W...

    ...you are a poser...
     
    That statement told me everything I need to know about you.

    Takes sometimes quite some time for your...ahm...characters to "slip".

    Did I say "good luck"? That was just a common courtesy. Didn't mean it, actually.

    Internet.

    Twinkie’s not good at dialogue (interpersonal skills as you say), but I knew that, so I should have stayed out.

    That said, would you explain why you think that this is important enough to mention?

    Be that as it may, he still got you.

    • Replies: @peterAUS

    Twinkie’s not good at dialogue (interpersonal skills as you say), but I knew that, so I should have stayed out.
     
    My take: he's one of those peculiar types that pop up every now and then on Internet when there is talk about military related matters.
    He has a problem. That's O.K. I just don't want to be part of his online therapy.

    That said, would you explain why you think that this is important enough to mention?

    Be that as it may, he still got you.
     
    Because it happened.
    More importantly, he was giving a bad advice to an average American. I know that a Brit or Australian would't buy it, but, this IS an American site. Bad advice of type which can get somebody killed or maimed/imprisoned for life.

    Now, I really don't care about those online personalities as long as they keep to their online sessions. But, I know some people who took a very bad advice from similar types and didn't end well.
    My intention was to point to very simple: do....not....do...that.
    If not for that I would've skipped all that "CT" and "recruitment" chat in the first place. Just....not interesting.

    Now, back to the topic which does interest me. The article's title and definitive lack of related conversation. That speaks volumes, actually.
    Moment of clarity.
    , @Twinkie

    Twinkie’s not good at dialogue (interpersonal skills as you say)
     
    I am unfailingly polite to those of good will. If anything, I tend to indulge even those who are not of such good will and try to engage them in a thoughtful, substantive discussion.

    But even I have limits. And sometimes you have to call a jackass what he is. See my comment to "peterAUS" below, where I point out some problems with his "wisdom."

    In any case, I am going to try my darndest to avoid getting sucked into a conversation with what my wife calls "morons on the Internet."
  215. @Twinkie
    You realize "Career" is "Tyrion 2," right? Sock-puppetry isn't "smooth." It's just a deceptive, trollish attempt to get serious people to engage, because his original handle has a poor reputation (to say the least).

    Furthermore, the proprietor of this site takes a dim view of such deception.

    IDGAF, it was hilarious.

  216. @Rosie

    The idea of artificial wombs scares me, but stopping women from having to suffer 9 months of pregnancy would surely increase the number of children they choose to have.
     
    Solutions that focus on women presume that it is primarily women who want to limit fertility. There’s no evidence for this claim. From what I hear, some of the solutions on offer in Europe suffer from the same problem.

    Maternity pay for 5 years after birth would also surely do it, but that would be extremely expensive.
     
    This a better stain because it rewards men, albeit more indirectly, as well as women.

    Solutions that focus on women presume that it is primarily women who want to limit fertility.

    I actually agree with this. Women are naturally followers of men. Then act in a way that they think will make them desirable for men.

    Many young men (of all races) don’t want kids. They don’t necessarily want to get married. This happens for various reasons – divorced parents, child support laws, Tinder and easy access to sex. Let’s be honest – a decent looking man can get all the sex he desires and more, no strings attached, in a big city. If the woman gets pregnant – well, he scares her, tells her he’s never going to raise the kid with her and then takes her to the abortion clinic.

    So, women adapt accordingly.

    I think that an excellent strategy would start in education – teach young men that they have a *duty* and a *responsibility* to raise a family and provide for their wife. Teach them that they are the leaders of society, but with power comes responsibility.

    Men are certainly not innocent in the fertility crisis.

  217. @anon
    The Left will never be satisfied with separate countries. They have a messianic mission to bring sacred black bodies and female penises to every corner of the globe. If the mid-west separates then California and the Left Nation will insist on open borders and more world immigration to the mid-west. They will not tolerate a majority gentile nation anywhere. Nebraska will be sanctioned like South Africa.
    Any break up of the USA will be violent in the extreme.

    As long as the UN and Globalist Europe exists, this will not happen. They will literally drop a nuke on the helpless Whiteopia. They DO NOT CARE, and given the excuse to kill you, they will.

  218. @anon
    I don't think anything other than a miracle could save the US at this point.* I thought Trump was that miracle, but I was wrong. This thing is going down. Honestly, if you're a white male, you need to be considering other countries to move to. In the coming struggle between the US and China, the US is going down in flames; that means lots of blaming whites for a reduced standard of living and racial thefts of the kind promoted by Kamala Harris to make up for it. You won't want to be around for that. I'm researching Asian and European nations. As soon as I decide, I'll start the process of learning another language. Honestly, even though China is packed, I'm hoping they or maybe Japan will make it easier for me to move there one day.

    *Miracle: a wise dictator, someone like myself, comes to power and imposes your list force, but only as an appetizer. They'd also have to purge the entire media, corporate America, the military, Hollywood, and academia of divisive SJW bigots; and they've have to ban a host of groups from the ADL to the SPLC. Additionally, they'd have to empower the Dissident Right to run the media and government, and they'd have to immediately begin a genetic engineering and cloning program with the aim of increasing the quality of the population so we can more effectively compete with the Chinese. The government would be similarly modeled around the Chinese example where only worthy individuals are invited into the party. Of course, that's a short list. Probability of that happening? 0.0001% over your lifetime.

    So you’re planning on moving to China AFTER they decimate America and white americans in a bloody war? Good luck.

    Europe is just as bad as the USA. The more Orwellian hate speech laws counterbalance the higher white populations. Right now, stay where you are and fight.

    In the case of a paradigm shift in Europe, I think migration there will be a good option. But as of right now, Europeans have far less land, far fewer guns and far less free speech.

  219. @Talha
    LOL! OK - you got me there. But, in my defense, the Balkans was just a side note in the bloody-pulp-fest known as WW1 - it was just one of the catalists.

    Anyway, regarding:

    See, Yanks don’t see such topics important here
     
    I can tell you that I am getting more impressed by some of the conversations starting up among traditional-minded Muslims, a few examples:
    1) A few days ago, I had an exchange with a few brothers (including some White converts) about this very thing. If Balkanization of the US starts becoming more of a reality, we are already thinking about moving near that Detroit/Toronto nexus point where there are already quite a lot of Muslims. The Chicago area is also Muslim-heavy. "Great Lakes Alliance of Canuckistan" - maybe even "Great Lakes Order of Canuckistan"? There you go. Just a friendly heads up of where not to be if you dislike Muslims.
    2) Had a conversation with a White convert shaykh (Muslim scholar) not too long ago about organizing a White Muslims Conference/Convention like the one held for Black Muslims. The basis is to cater to the specific needs of a growing community that has its own particular concerns and needs. He said he didn't see any problem with it as a concept, but it would naturally grow out organically as that segment of demographics reaches a more critical mass.
    3) One of the Black convert shaykhs I follow on Twitter has been posting videos trashing the Covington Boys and Jussie Smollet hoaxes.

    So, good stuff on the horizon, glad people are at least thinking about these things.

    Not very impressed with the "Yaaasss Queen" Muslim crowd, but they only have space because the wider community is giving them that space; GLAC/GLOC will eventually shut that down. And of course, they don't have kids anyway, so they'll just be bred out.

    Peace.

    If Balkanization of the US starts becoming more of a reality, we are already thinking about moving near that Detroit/Toronto nexus point where there are already quite a lot of Muslims.

    Toronto also has alot of Christians… and Hindus… and Sikhs… and atheists… and SJWs… and Muslim SJWs. Unless you think you can overtake them, I think that region would be a shitshow.

    Furthermore, how are you going to get through the quite racist and white space between Detroit and Toronto? The people between Toronto and Detroit are definitely the most racist in Ontario.

    Either way, the fact that Muslims are already planning this further proves to me that they do not belong here. You already have your own countries. Why here? Either way – you all must be removed from the Americas. I’m sure you’re not all bad people but when the time comes, decisive action must be taken.

    What’s unfortunate is that everybody sees it this way except for the majority of Whites. Whites think “all the diversity is coming to live in harmony”. Non-whites think “we are here to take the biggest slice of pie possible, and gain control.” You don’t fool me, nor millions of other White racists (realists) in Ontario, but you fool the vast, vast majority of city slickers who are the ones with the money and the power.

    • Replies: @Talha

    Unless you think you can overtake them
     
    Traditional Muslims like myself have no reason not to accommodate other people around us. So there is no reason for us to try to cleanse or purify the landscape Daesh-style. People who don't like us or have a different community they want to be around would start leaving. Change simply happens over time and generations - you have to think about the long term; like 10 generations down. We would simply be moving there to be around other Muslims (strength in numbers leads to more accommodation).

    Furthermore, how are you going to get through the quite racist and white space between Detroit and Toronto?
     
    We won't - if people want to have their own spaces around their own people, what do I care? I'm only talking about moving into places where people don't mind Muslims moving into. There needs to be a relaxation of things such that communities can be vocal and public that they don't want Blacks or Asians or Muslims or Whites in their areas. I feel one of the major problems is the stifling of open communication. If city/village councils were allowed, they could simply post signs at the entrance points of their jurisdictions:
    https://www.irishcentral.com/uploads/article/117338/cropped_No_Irish_need_Apply_framed_sign.jpg
    https://davidyamane.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/japs-keep-moving-photo.jpg

    the fact that Muslims are already planning this further
     
    As I mentioned, these are things people are thinking about in the case of things starting to further fracture. You mean you have no contingency plans in the case things start to dissolve and Balkanize? Why? Is that an intelligent way to approach things? This would be "Muslim flight" just like "White flight". Often times, good fences make good neighbors.

    Since I see no reason to stop nor do I oppose Whites (or any other group) from congregating together and preferring to live among their own kind and culture, I have no reason to feel guilty for thinking of doing the same.

    As I have stated before; I am 100% on-board for supporting the secession of a White's-only nation if it ever came down to a vote.

    You already have your own countries.
     
    So do Whites.

    Why here?
     
    Because:
    1) We are already here - complain to the ones that let us in.
    2) There are people like my wife and the other converts that I spoke about that seem to have a funny idea that they belong here just as much as anyone else.

    Either way – you all must be removed from the Americas.
     
    As I said before, I'm a law-abiding citizen; when I get my official notice that my citizenship has been revoked, I will make plans to leave.

    This is also why I don't really feel bad about the position I take. I'm just talking about moving into areas that already have Muslim concentrations and simply building upon that foundation for developing areas that make it easier and more comfortable for Muslims to live and be safe. I don't mind if others do the same in areas they choose. And since I'm totally fine with stopping immigration completely, I have no reason to defend keeping the borders open.

    Your position is not talking about sharing the pie or having a slice - it is about complete expulsions. Which is fine if you want to take that position, but very difficult if one wants to claim the moral high ground.

    Whites think “all the diversity is coming to live in harmony”.
     
    Yeah - it's kind of a stupid experiment honestly and without much precedent in the way that it's being done. Maybe introducing the ability for localities and municipalities to vote to deny entry to people into their spaces would be a good start.

    You don’t fool me
     
    I don't believe I'm trying to fool anybody. This is common sense. If the country starts fracturing along ethnic and/or religious lines, Muslims (including White converts) will seek to move closer to concentrations of other Muslims. This is not smoke-filled dark room conspiracy here - this is common sense. Jews congregate around each other. Whites also leave increasingly colored areas for more White areas.

    Peace.
  220. @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    If Balkanization of the US starts becoming more of a reality, we are already thinking about moving near that Detroit/Toronto nexus point where there are already quite a lot of Muslims.
     
    Toronto also has alot of Christians... and Hindus... and Sikhs... and atheists... and SJWs... and Muslim SJWs. Unless you think you can overtake them, I think that region would be a shitshow.

    Furthermore, how are you going to get through the quite racist and white space between Detroit and Toronto? The people between Toronto and Detroit are definitely the most racist in Ontario.

    Either way, the fact that Muslims are already planning this further proves to me that they do not belong here. You already have your own countries. Why here? Either way - you all must be removed from the Americas. I'm sure you're not all bad people but when the time comes, decisive action must be taken.

    What's unfortunate is that everybody sees it this way except for the majority of Whites. Whites think "all the diversity is coming to live in harmony". Non-whites think "we are here to take the biggest slice of pie possible, and gain control." You don't fool me, nor millions of other White racists (realists) in Ontario, but you fool the vast, vast majority of city slickers who are the ones with the money and the power.

    Unless you think you can overtake them

    Traditional Muslims like myself have no reason not to accommodate other people around us. So there is no reason for us to try to cleanse or purify the landscape Daesh-style. People who don’t like us or have a different community they want to be around would start leaving. Change simply happens over time and generations – you have to think about the long term; like 10 generations down. We would simply be moving there to be around other Muslims (strength in numbers leads to more accommodation).

    Furthermore, how are you going to get through the quite racist and white space between Detroit and Toronto?

    We won’t – if people want to have their own spaces around their own people, what do I care? I’m only talking about moving into places where people don’t mind Muslims moving into. There needs to be a relaxation of things such that communities can be vocal and public that they don’t want Blacks or Asians or Muslims or Whites in their areas. I feel one of the major problems is the stifling of open communication. If city/village councils were allowed, they could simply post signs at the entrance points of their jurisdictions:

    the fact that Muslims are already planning this further

    As I mentioned, these are things people are thinking about in the case of things starting to further fracture. You mean you have no contingency plans in the case things start to dissolve and Balkanize? Why? Is that an intelligent way to approach things? This would be “Muslim flight” just like “White flight”. Often times, good fences make good neighbors.

    Since I see no reason to stop nor do I oppose Whites (or any other group) from congregating together and preferring to live among their own kind and culture, I have no reason to feel guilty for thinking of doing the same.

    As I have stated before; I am 100% on-board for supporting the secession of a White’s-only nation if it ever came down to a vote.

    You already have your own countries.

    So do Whites.

    Why here?

    Because:
    1) We are already here – complain to the ones that let us in.
    2) There are people like my wife and the other converts that I spoke about that seem to have a funny idea that they belong here just as much as anyone else.

    Either way – you all must be removed from the Americas.

    As I said before, I’m a law-abiding citizen; when I get my official notice that my citizenship has been revoked, I will make plans to leave.

    This is also why I don’t really feel bad about the position I take. I’m just talking about moving into areas that already have Muslim concentrations and simply building upon that foundation for developing areas that make it easier and more comfortable for Muslims to live and be safe. I don’t mind if others do the same in areas they choose. And since I’m totally fine with stopping immigration completely, I have no reason to defend keeping the borders open.

    Your position is not talking about sharing the pie or having a slice – it is about complete expulsions. Which is fine if you want to take that position, but very difficult if one wants to claim the moral high ground.

    Whites think “all the diversity is coming to live in harmony”.

    Yeah – it’s kind of a stupid experiment honestly and without much precedent in the way that it’s being done. Maybe introducing the ability for localities and municipalities to vote to deny entry to people into their spaces would be a good start.

    You don’t fool me

    I don’t believe I’m trying to fool anybody. This is common sense. If the country starts fracturing along ethnic and/or religious lines, Muslims (including White converts) will seek to move closer to concentrations of other Muslims. This is not smoke-filled dark room conspiracy here – this is common sense. Jews congregate around each other. Whites also leave increasingly colored areas for more White areas.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    As I mentioned, these are things people are thinking about in the case of things starting to further fracture.
     
    Of course, you are doing exactly what one expects from a Muslim, specifically a 3rd world one, which is to spread your religion, and ultimately dominate the world. That's how humans are. I can't cast judgement one that - it's self evident to me that is what the goal is. What is shocking, is the naivete of other whites is what is allowing this to happen - allowing Muslims to ever set foot in any part of the West.

    1) We are already here – complain to the ones that let us in.
     
    Yes, our elites, and ultimately us (my parents and grandparents generations, specifically) are responsible for this. That said, you are still the tool of the elites' plan for destruction, whether you initiated it or not, and, therefore a problem. The enemy soldier is probably not a bad person - he is just following the commander's order - yet we do not simply let them carry out their mission.

    Your position is not talking about sharing the pie or having a slice – it is about complete expulsions. Which is fine if you want to take that position, but very difficult if one wants to claim the moral high ground.
     
    My position is about restoring Canada as a European Christian nation (which is was, and always will be). This is in fact the moral high ground. We are happier amongst ourselves, and so are you. Peace cannot be had when there are multiple factions competing for control of a country. Ultimately 3rd worlders must build their own societies up, if they are capable, in order for harmony to occur.

    Only Whites can be Canadian - and non-whites know this. It is a sad situation for all parties involved. On the one hand, they want to. But it's no longer possible. So gradually it turns into resentment and a feeling of malaise.

    Are the children of 3rd world immigrants *happy* in Canada? I think not. While they are materially wealthier, they are spiritually poor, and deprived of a sense of belonging. This in turn grows to resentment against Canadian men. Are Canadians happy either with the situation? Some (blinded) are, many are not. Logically, the solution is for repatriation to a culturally similar country. People are happier amongst their own people.

    Globally, we can share the pie. Intra-nationally, it will never happen.

    Yeah – it’s kind of a stupid experiment honestly and without much precedent in the way that it’s being done.
     
    It is sheer suicide. Europeans can either wake up, or go extinct in the near future. I'm not optimistic. Ironically Hitler wrote about these topics at length, warning the German people. His own people (and all "whites") are now doing the exact opposite.

    Maybe introducing the ability for localities and municipalities to vote to deny entry to people into their spaces would be a good start.
     
    I agree that this is a good idea. It's why I'm pushing for nationalist whites to run for local office in their own little towns or counties. When they start pushing non-Canadians into the communities, you will have power over zoning and infrastructure. We cannot be explicitly racist as long as the federal government exists in its current form.


    I do appreciate your honesty, rather than 99% of "Canadian" Muslims who spout off the usual tripe about coming here for a better life and wanting to become Canadian. I have never gotten along with Muslims, long before I developed political views, because they were always so phony and I felt like they were liars. As I said, I have no hard feelings against you or any individual Muslims - just like English soldiers had no hard feelings against German soldiers during WW1. But only one of our civilizations can survive, so I will look out for the logical interests of myself and my people.
  221. @iffen
    Twinkie's not good at dialogue (interpersonal skills as you say), but I knew that, so I should have stayed out.

    That said, would you explain why you think that this is important enough to mention?


    Be that as it may, he still got you.

    Twinkie’s not good at dialogue (interpersonal skills as you say), but I knew that, so I should have stayed out.

    My take: he’s one of those peculiar types that pop up every now and then on Internet when there is talk about military related matters.
    He has a problem. That’s O.K. I just don’t want to be part of his online therapy.

    That said, would you explain why you think that this is important enough to mention?

    Be that as it may, he still got you.

    Because it happened.
    More importantly, he was giving a bad advice to an average American. I know that a Brit or Australian would’t buy it, but, this IS an American site. Bad advice of type which can get somebody killed or maimed/imprisoned for life.

    Now, I really don’t care about those online personalities as long as they keep to their online sessions. But, I know some people who took a very bad advice from similar types and didn’t end well.
    My intention was to point to very simple: do….not….do…that.
    If not for that I would’ve skipped all that “CT” and “recruitment” chat in the first place. Just….not interesting.

    Now, back to the topic which does interest me. The article’s title and definitive lack of related conversation. That speaks volumes, actually.
    Moment of clarity.

    • Replies: @iffen
    He has a problem. That’s O.K. I just don’t want to be part of his online therapy.

    Why not, what’s it cost you?

    Because it happened.

    Just because some troll got his dander up is no reason for you to come in with a high-five.

    Like you wrote, it takes a while for the character to come through.

    More importantly, he was giving a bad advice to an average American. I know that a Brit or Australian would’t buy it, but, this IS an American site. Bad advice of type which can get somebody killed or maimed/imprisoned for life.

    Seriously? He saved (?)(ha-ha) the life of a troll and you are excited.

    What is your basis for claiming that stupid Americans are more stupid than stupid Australians.

    But, I know some people who took a very bad advice from similar types and didn’t end well.

    You? Projection?

    My intention was to point to very simple: do….not….do…that.

    Killing other people is a nasty business, but somebody’s got to do it.

    If not for that I would’ve skipped all that “CT” and “recruitment” chat in the first place.
    Just….not interesting.

    Yeah, right.

    Now, back to the topic which does interest me. The article’s title and definitive lack of related conversation. That speaks volumes, actually.

    Moment of clarity.

    We are coming apart at the seams. It appears that it will not end well. Stock up on MREs and cases of ammo.

    , @Twinkie

    He has a problem. That’s O.K. I just don’t want to be part of his online therapy.
     
    There is a very consistent pattern to how these conversations go on the Internet. Usually some wannabe starts opining forth on subjects about which he has Wikipedia knowledge at best. Then actual experts on the subject matter try to correct and inform with accurate information. At this point, either the wannabe disappears to avoid embarrassment or he starts diverting the conversation to the experts' persona, argument style, etc. straight into remote, anonymous, armchair psychological diagnosis, all in an effort to still "win" ("Maybe what you are saying is true, but something is wrong with you!"). Note that at this point he avoids all reference to the specifics, especially his inaccurate assertions of earlier that have been pointed out.

    I hope you have enough cerebral matter to figure out who is who in this thread.

    Be that as it may, he still got you... Because it happened.
     
    What is "it" there? What happened? You and "Tyrion 2/career" putting strawmen words to my mouth and claiming "Aha! We got you!" is not exactly fooling anyone.

    I will give you the specifics. Even though I specified the term "paramilitary/direct action," you and that troll kept steering the conversation to "Tier 1" SOCOM units. *I* never, once, wrote the words "special operations" in this thread - do a "find" for yourself on this page. Only you two clowns brought up that term.

    I usually choose my words very carefully about such things - with specificity. I included "paramilitary" above for a reason - so as to include forces under civilian law enforcement and intelligence community control that do direct action (vis-à-vis terrorists in this context). And regarding getting into such an organization, I wrote:

    "Career": It is nice to know that I may not have to spend years with the regular military first.

    Me: While that is not impossible, it’s exceedingly difficult unless you have prior mil/intel/LE experience. I hope I did not give you an impression to the contrary.
     
    Now let's look at the job posting for the CIA SAD paramilitary operations officer, shall we?
    https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/clandestine/cmo-specialist.html

    US citizenship required (dual-national US citizens eligible). All positions require relocation to the Washington, DC metro area.

    Minimum Qualifications:
    •Bachelor's degree from an accredited institution (applicants within one year of earning a four year degree will be considered); there is no preferred major or program of study (degrees from foreign academic institutions are accepted, but you are responsible for obtaining and providing CIA with a credential evaluation from an accredited firm confirming that the foreign degree is the equivalent of a BA/BS and/or MA/MS degree conferred by a US college or university)
    •GPA of at least 3.0 on a 4-point scale is preferred
    •Personal integrity
    •Strong interpersonal and communication skills (verbal and written)
    •Action- and results-oriented
    •Ability to work effectively as part of a team and independently;
    •Flexibility, adaptability, and commitment to the mission of the CIA and the Directorate of Operations
    •Ability to make decisions to meet existing conditions and mission requirements rather than relying on preset assumptions and goal

    Desired Qualifications:
    Competitive Paramilitary Operations Officer applicants have:
    •Military special operations or combat arms experience (ground, air or maritime)
    •Experience serving in combat leadership positions
    •Willingness to serve in hazardous and austere environments overseas (previous foreign travel and foreign language is valued, but not required)
     
    Note that while desired qualifications include mil special operations/combat arms experience, it is not a part of the minimum qualifications requirement. Why is that? It's very simple. A large majority of CIA SAD paramilitaries IS made up of men with the desired qualifications, but a small number is not. CIA wants to keep a small number of slots open for those few exceptional candidates without the requisite combat experience and also so that it can recruit people from within the agency. That's why the combat experience is not a part of the required qualifications set. Hence my earlier words "exceedingly difficult" (rather than "impossible") without relevant experience.

    Meanwhile, you are so ineptly stupid that you thought "paramilitary" referred to some hired thugs working for Third World governments to beat up civilians. Yes, that is how that word is used in that context, but NOT in the context of First World mil/intel/LE.

    But, I know some people who took a very bad advice from similar types and didn’t end well.
     
    I don't know what the heck you are talking about, but you seem to think I told a bunch of high school kids to join the Marine Corps and go kill some villagers at My Lai. This is what I actually wrote regarding someone who wants to get into hunting terrorists:

    There is high impact in several of the subfields I listed. Gunslinging is sexy-sounding, but it’s months of training, weeks of preparations, days of mission planning, hours of transport (and walking), all punctuated by very rare minutes of extremely stressful action.

    Although I rarely, if ever, said, “Gee, I wish I had better gunslingers” in that line of work, I certainly said, very often, “I wish I had better (or more accurately, “less f-d up”) intel.”
     
    Try your best to summon forth reading comprehension skills you apparently lack and figure out what I am recommending above. It's the opposite of what you think.

    Now, back to the topic which does interest me.
     
    I think this means that you recognize your pretend-expertise has been discovered.

    The article’s title and definitive lack of related conversation. That speaks volumes, actually. Moment of clarity.
     
    Three sentences and only one verb. Did you learn to form phrases from the Shaolin monk in the TV show "Kung Fu" (is that reference old enough for you)?
  222. @Talha

    Unless you think you can overtake them
     
    Traditional Muslims like myself have no reason not to accommodate other people around us. So there is no reason for us to try to cleanse or purify the landscape Daesh-style. People who don't like us or have a different community they want to be around would start leaving. Change simply happens over time and generations - you have to think about the long term; like 10 generations down. We would simply be moving there to be around other Muslims (strength in numbers leads to more accommodation).

    Furthermore, how are you going to get through the quite racist and white space between Detroit and Toronto?
     
    We won't - if people want to have their own spaces around their own people, what do I care? I'm only talking about moving into places where people don't mind Muslims moving into. There needs to be a relaxation of things such that communities can be vocal and public that they don't want Blacks or Asians or Muslims or Whites in their areas. I feel one of the major problems is the stifling of open communication. If city/village councils were allowed, they could simply post signs at the entrance points of their jurisdictions:
    https://www.irishcentral.com/uploads/article/117338/cropped_No_Irish_need_Apply_framed_sign.jpg
    https://davidyamane.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/japs-keep-moving-photo.jpg

    the fact that Muslims are already planning this further
     
    As I mentioned, these are things people are thinking about in the case of things starting to further fracture. You mean you have no contingency plans in the case things start to dissolve and Balkanize? Why? Is that an intelligent way to approach things? This would be "Muslim flight" just like "White flight". Often times, good fences make good neighbors.

    Since I see no reason to stop nor do I oppose Whites (or any other group) from congregating together and preferring to live among their own kind and culture, I have no reason to feel guilty for thinking of doing the same.

    As I have stated before; I am 100% on-board for supporting the secession of a White's-only nation if it ever came down to a vote.

    You already have your own countries.
     
    So do Whites.

    Why here?
     
    Because:
    1) We are already here - complain to the ones that let us in.
    2) There are people like my wife and the other converts that I spoke about that seem to have a funny idea that they belong here just as much as anyone else.

    Either way – you all must be removed from the Americas.
     
    As I said before, I'm a law-abiding citizen; when I get my official notice that my citizenship has been revoked, I will make plans to leave.

    This is also why I don't really feel bad about the position I take. I'm just talking about moving into areas that already have Muslim concentrations and simply building upon that foundation for developing areas that make it easier and more comfortable for Muslims to live and be safe. I don't mind if others do the same in areas they choose. And since I'm totally fine with stopping immigration completely, I have no reason to defend keeping the borders open.

    Your position is not talking about sharing the pie or having a slice - it is about complete expulsions. Which is fine if you want to take that position, but very difficult if one wants to claim the moral high ground.

    Whites think “all the diversity is coming to live in harmony”.
     
    Yeah - it's kind of a stupid experiment honestly and without much precedent in the way that it's being done. Maybe introducing the ability for localities and municipalities to vote to deny entry to people into their spaces would be a good start.

    You don’t fool me
     
    I don't believe I'm trying to fool anybody. This is common sense. If the country starts fracturing along ethnic and/or religious lines, Muslims (including White converts) will seek to move closer to concentrations of other Muslims. This is not smoke-filled dark room conspiracy here - this is common sense. Jews congregate around each other. Whites also leave increasingly colored areas for more White areas.

    Peace.

    As I mentioned, these are things people are thinking about in the case of things starting to further fracture.

    Of course, you are doing exactly what one expects from a Muslim, specifically a 3rd world one, which is to spread your religion, and ultimately dominate the world. That’s how humans are. I can’t cast judgement one that – it’s self evident to me that is what the goal is. What is shocking, is the naivete of other whites is what is allowing this to happen – allowing Muslims to ever set foot in any part of the West.

    1) We are already here – complain to the ones that let us in.

    Yes, our elites, and ultimately us (my parents and grandparents generations, specifically) are responsible for this. That said, you are still the tool of the elites’ plan for destruction, whether you initiated it or not, and, therefore a problem. The enemy soldier is probably not a bad person – he is just following the commander’s order – yet we do not simply let them carry out their mission.

    Your position is not talking about sharing the pie or having a slice – it is about complete expulsions. Which is fine if you want to take that position, but very difficult if one wants to claim the moral high ground.

    My position is about restoring Canada as a European Christian nation (which is was, and always will be). This is in fact the moral high ground. We are happier amongst ourselves, and so are you. Peace cannot be had when there are multiple factions competing for control of a country. Ultimately 3rd worlders must build their own societies up, if they are capable, in order for harmony to occur.

    Only Whites can be Canadian – and non-whites know this. It is a sad situation for all parties involved. On the one hand, they want to. But it’s no longer possible. So gradually it turns into resentment and a feeling of malaise.

    Are the children of 3rd world immigrants *happy* in Canada? I think not. While they are materially wealthier, they are spiritually poor, and deprived of a sense of belonging. This in turn grows to resentment against Canadian men. Are Canadians happy either with the situation? Some (blinded) are, many are not. Logically, the solution is for repatriation to a culturally similar country. People are happier amongst their own people.

    Globally, we can share the pie. Intra-nationally, it will never happen.

    Yeah – it’s kind of a stupid experiment honestly and without much precedent in the way that it’s being done.

    It is sheer suicide. Europeans can either wake up, or go extinct in the near future. I’m not optimistic. Ironically Hitler wrote about these topics at length, warning the German people. His own people (and all “whites”) are now doing the exact opposite.

    Maybe introducing the ability for localities and municipalities to vote to deny entry to people into their spaces would be a good start.

    I agree that this is a good idea. It’s why I’m pushing for nationalist whites to run for local office in their own little towns or counties. When they start pushing non-Canadians into the communities, you will have power over zoning and infrastructure. We cannot be explicitly racist as long as the federal government exists in its current form.

    I do appreciate your honesty, rather than 99% of “Canadian” Muslims who spout off the usual tripe about coming here for a better life and wanting to become Canadian. I have never gotten along with Muslims, long before I developed political views, because they were always so phony and I felt like they were liars. As I said, I have no hard feelings against you or any individual Muslims – just like English soldiers had no hard feelings against German soldiers during WW1. But only one of our civilizations can survive, so I will look out for the logical interests of myself and my people.

    • Replies: @Talha

    specifically a 3rd world one, which is to spread your religion
     
    I have seen no difference between me and my convert brothers in this regard; they also want to spread Islam among their people. My sister-in-law converted through seeing the changes in my wife, her older sister.

    you are still the tool of the elites’ plan for destruction
     
    The way I see it, Islam is right now the most potent force against many of the elite's plans for destruction.

    yet we do not simply let them carry out their mission.
     
    You can ban the proselytizing of Islam like we do for other religions in Muslim countries. It may or may not have much effect since many converts nowadays find their info on the web.

    This is in fact the moral high ground.
     
    Look, if you consider the equivalent to the Alhambra Decree to be the moral high ground, that is fine with me.

    You recognized that your people made a mistake. Then own up to it and say; OK, we screwed up, we'll own it, we just want separation - let's divvy up the country and go our own way.

    I mean you can of course expel us (including converts) and make every other religion illegal in Canada. Which is fine, but something tells me that's going to be a tough sell since Christians have spent so much time and effort positioning themselves as so much more open and tolerant than Islamic Law. I mean, are you telling me the Shariah actually makes room for living and sharing space with law-abiding non-Muslims (even if it assumes ) and the only solution Christians can come up with is wholesale expulsions of non-criminal Muslim citizens?

    Are the children of 3rd world immigrants *happy* in Canada?
     
    It's probably better if you simply ask them.

    Europeans can either wake up, or go extinct in the near future.
     
    I have zero interest in European extinction. I'd like them to stick around. As I've stated, the converts I know have plenty of kids, the Bosnians I know have the most of any other group in my area. Islam has a fairly good track record in ensuring one's genetic lines will continue.

    When they start pushing non-Canadians into the communities, you will have power over zoning and infrastructure.
     
    Exactly - what counts the most here is the ability to affect things locally since that constitutes your day-to-day business.

    I do appreciate your honesty
     
    No problem.

    rather than 99% of “Canadian” Muslims who spout off the usual tripe about coming here for a better life and wanting to become Canadian.
     
    I don't see what is dishonest about this. If you were to ask me why my parents came here; I would say - because they wanted a better, materially-prosperous life. If you asked me whether I considered myself American or Pakistani; I would say I am American (if I ever visit Pakistan, my relatives remind me of this fact).

    As far as why I stay, well; as my spiritual teachers have taught me, one should not abide in a non-Muslim country (due to the pressures on one's faith) unless one is there to invite people to Islam and be of service to society. "Muh material prosperity" is not worth the risk to one's soul.

    they were always so phony and I felt like they were liars
     
    I don't think most SJW Muslims are phony - I actually think they are very sincere in their misguided ideas.

    But only one of our civilizations can survive, so I will look out for the logical interests of myself and my people.
     
    I personally don't see it as a zero-sum game, but I understand your perspective. No harm, no foul.

    Peace.
  223. @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    As I mentioned, these are things people are thinking about in the case of things starting to further fracture.
     
    Of course, you are doing exactly what one expects from a Muslim, specifically a 3rd world one, which is to spread your religion, and ultimately dominate the world. That's how humans are. I can't cast judgement one that - it's self evident to me that is what the goal is. What is shocking, is the naivete of other whites is what is allowing this to happen - allowing Muslims to ever set foot in any part of the West.

    1) We are already here – complain to the ones that let us in.
     
    Yes, our elites, and ultimately us (my parents and grandparents generations, specifically) are responsible for this. That said, you are still the tool of the elites' plan for destruction, whether you initiated it or not, and, therefore a problem. The enemy soldier is probably not a bad person - he is just following the commander's order - yet we do not simply let them carry out their mission.

    Your position is not talking about sharing the pie or having a slice – it is about complete expulsions. Which is fine if you want to take that position, but very difficult if one wants to claim the moral high ground.
     
    My position is about restoring Canada as a European Christian nation (which is was, and always will be). This is in fact the moral high ground. We are happier amongst ourselves, and so are you. Peace cannot be had when there are multiple factions competing for control of a country. Ultimately 3rd worlders must build their own societies up, if they are capable, in order for harmony to occur.

    Only Whites can be Canadian - and non-whites know this. It is a sad situation for all parties involved. On the one hand, they want to. But it's no longer possible. So gradually it turns into resentment and a feeling of malaise.

    Are the children of 3rd world immigrants *happy* in Canada? I think not. While they are materially wealthier, they are spiritually poor, and deprived of a sense of belonging. This in turn grows to resentment against Canadian men. Are Canadians happy either with the situation? Some (blinded) are, many are not. Logically, the solution is for repatriation to a culturally similar country. People are happier amongst their own people.

    Globally, we can share the pie. Intra-nationally, it will never happen.

    Yeah – it’s kind of a stupid experiment honestly and without much precedent in the way that it’s being done.
     
    It is sheer suicide. Europeans can either wake up, or go extinct in the near future. I'm not optimistic. Ironically Hitler wrote about these topics at length, warning the German people. His own people (and all "whites") are now doing the exact opposite.

    Maybe introducing the ability for localities and municipalities to vote to deny entry to people into their spaces would be a good start.
     
    I agree that this is a good idea. It's why I'm pushing for nationalist whites to run for local office in their own little towns or counties. When they start pushing non-Canadians into the communities, you will have power over zoning and infrastructure. We cannot be explicitly racist as long as the federal government exists in its current form.


    I do appreciate your honesty, rather than 99% of "Canadian" Muslims who spout off the usual tripe about coming here for a better life and wanting to become Canadian. I have never gotten along with Muslims, long before I developed political views, because they were always so phony and I felt like they were liars. As I said, I have no hard feelings against you or any individual Muslims - just like English soldiers had no hard feelings against German soldiers during WW1. But only one of our civilizations can survive, so I will look out for the logical interests of myself and my people.

    specifically a 3rd world one, which is to spread your religion

    I have seen no difference between me and my convert brothers in this regard; they also want to spread Islam among their people. My sister-in-law converted through seeing the changes in my wife, her older sister.

    you are still the tool of the elites’ plan for destruction

    The way I see it, Islam is right now the most potent force against many of the elite’s plans for destruction.

    yet we do not simply let them carry out their mission.

    You can ban the proselytizing of Islam like we do for other religions in Muslim countries. It may or may not have much effect since many converts nowadays find their info on the web.

    This is in fact the moral high ground.

    Look, if you consider the equivalent to the Alhambra Decree to be the moral high ground, that is fine with me.

    You recognized that your people made a mistake. Then own up to it and say; OK, we screwed up, we’ll own it, we just want separation – let’s divvy up the country and go our own way.

    I mean you can of course expel us (including converts) and make every other religion illegal in Canada. Which is fine, but something tells me that’s going to be a tough sell since Christians have spent so much time and effort positioning themselves as so much more open and tolerant than Islamic Law. I mean, are you telling me the Shariah actually makes room for living and sharing space with law-abiding non-Muslims (even if it assumes ) and the only solution Christians can come up with is wholesale expulsions of non-criminal Muslim citizens?

    Are the children of 3rd world immigrants *happy* in Canada?

    It’s probably better if you simply ask them.

    Europeans can either wake up, or go extinct in the near future.

    I have zero interest in European extinction. I’d like them to stick around. As I’ve stated, the converts I know have plenty of kids, the Bosnians I know have the most of any other group in my area. Islam has a fairly good track record in ensuring one’s genetic lines will continue.

    When they start pushing non-Canadians into the communities, you will have power over zoning and infrastructure.

    Exactly – what counts the most here is the ability to affect things locally since that constitutes your day-to-day business.

    I do appreciate your honesty

    No problem.

    rather than 99% of “Canadian” Muslims who spout off the usual tripe about coming here for a better life and wanting to become Canadian.

    I don’t see what is dishonest about this. If you were to ask me why my parents came here; I would say – because they wanted a better, materially-prosperous life. If you asked me whether I considered myself American or Pakistani; I would say I am American (if I ever visit Pakistan, my relatives remind me of this fact).

    As far as why I stay, well; as my spiritual teachers have taught me, one should not abide in a non-Muslim country (due to the pressures on one’s faith) unless one is there to invite people to Islam and be of service to society. “Muh material prosperity” is not worth the risk to one’s soul.

    they were always so phony and I felt like they were liars

    I don’t think most SJW Muslims are phony – I actually think they are very sincere in their misguided ideas.

    But only one of our civilizations can survive, so I will look out for the logical interests of myself and my people.

    I personally don’t see it as a zero-sum game, but I understand your perspective. No harm, no foul.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Talha
    I ran out of time...should have said:

    (even if it assumes that Muslims don't up the keys to power in the society)
    , @iffen
    “Muh material prosperity” is not worth the risk to one’s soul.

    Have you asked your parents if it was worth the risk?
    , @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    The way I see it, Islam is right now the most potent force against many of the elite’s plans for destruction.
     
    It's used to wipe out White, Christian societies. We are the problem, the only societies that are capable of resisting to a New World Order. They don't care about social conservatism - again, social progressivism is just a tool to destroy the European family. Muslims put up absolutely no resistance to Israel, they are weak fighters, and will submit to whatever ruler, so long as they are allowed to practice their religion freely.

    we’ll own it, we just want separation – let’s divvy up the country and go our own way.
     
    To divvy up the country is to be defeated. As I said, Islam, and non-Europeans do not belong here. To divvy up the country is to be conquered, which is defeat.

    Which is fine, but something tells me that’s going to be a tough sell since Christians have spent so much time and effort positioning themselves as so much more open and tolerant than Islamic Law.
     
    I can't speak for other Christians, but I personally am not too interested in tolerance when a civilization and way of life is at stake. The strong will win, the weak will perish.

    It’s probably better if you simply ask them.

     

    It was a rhetorical question. They are not happy, because they feel out of place. It is better for them to be repatriated to their historical homelands.

    I personally don’t see it as a zero-sum game, but I understand your perspective. No harm, no foul.
     
    Perhaps I should have worded it better. We can co-exist SEPARATELY, but never together. Just like segregation in the USA. A Muslim in Pakistan will not bother me in Canada. I'm perfectly happy to let him live his life as he sees fit.

    I don’t think most SJW Muslims are phony – I actually think they are very sincere in their misguided ideas.
     
    This is always the funniest thing. Non-whites in the 2nd generation often become the biggest SJWs of them all. Then accuse white men of misogyny or sexism or whatever other BS. The irony of them following possibly the whitest ideology is apparently lost on them...
  224. @peterAUS

    Twinkie’s not good at dialogue (interpersonal skills as you say), but I knew that, so I should have stayed out.
     
    My take: he's one of those peculiar types that pop up every now and then on Internet when there is talk about military related matters.
    He has a problem. That's O.K. I just don't want to be part of his online therapy.

    That said, would you explain why you think that this is important enough to mention?

    Be that as it may, he still got you.
     
    Because it happened.
    More importantly, he was giving a bad advice to an average American. I know that a Brit or Australian would't buy it, but, this IS an American site. Bad advice of type which can get somebody killed or maimed/imprisoned for life.

    Now, I really don't care about those online personalities as long as they keep to their online sessions. But, I know some people who took a very bad advice from similar types and didn't end well.
    My intention was to point to very simple: do....not....do...that.
    If not for that I would've skipped all that "CT" and "recruitment" chat in the first place. Just....not interesting.

    Now, back to the topic which does interest me. The article's title and definitive lack of related conversation. That speaks volumes, actually.
    Moment of clarity.

    He has a problem. That’s O.K. I just don’t want to be part of his online therapy.

    Why not, what’s it cost you?

    Because it happened.

    Just because some troll got his dander up is no reason for you to come in with a high-five.

    Like you wrote, it takes a while for the character to come through.

    More importantly, he was giving a bad advice to an average American. I know that a Brit or Australian would’t buy it, but, this IS an American site. Bad advice of type which can get somebody killed or maimed/imprisoned for life.

    Seriously? He saved (?)(ha-ha) the life of a troll and you are excited.

    What is your basis for claiming that stupid Americans are more stupid than stupid Australians.

    But, I know some people who took a very bad advice from similar types and didn’t end well.

    You? Projection?

    My intention was to point to very simple: do….not….do…that.

    Killing other people is a nasty business, but somebody’s got to do it.

    If not for that I would’ve skipped all that “CT” and “recruitment” chat in the first place.
    Just….not interesting.

    Yeah, right.

    Now, back to the topic which does interest me. The article’s title and definitive lack of related conversation. That speaks volumes, actually.

    Moment of clarity.

    We are coming apart at the seams. It appears that it will not end well. Stock up on MREs and cases of ammo.

    • Replies: @peterAUS

    Moment of clarity.
     

    We are coming apart at the seams. It appears that it will not end well.
     
    Yep.

    Stock up on MREs and cases of ammo.
     
    Won't work.....for "deplorables".
    , @Twinkie

    Stock up on MREs and cases of ammo.
     
    MREs are stupid expensive and are a very poor proposition in terms of calories per dollar. It only makes sense if the government gives it to you for free.

    You can make your own emergency food at a tiny fraction of the cost of MREs. But if don't care to do so or lack the minimal skills needed to make it work, check out the local Mormon canning operation. Mormons are big time into emergency preparation and will sell you canned food at relatively reasonable costs.

    https://www.lds.org/topics/food-storage?lang=eng

    https://providentliving.lds.org/self-reliance/home-storage-centers?lang=eng
  225. @Talha

    specifically a 3rd world one, which is to spread your religion
     
    I have seen no difference between me and my convert brothers in this regard; they also want to spread Islam among their people. My sister-in-law converted through seeing the changes in my wife, her older sister.

    you are still the tool of the elites’ plan for destruction
     
    The way I see it, Islam is right now the most potent force against many of the elite's plans for destruction.

    yet we do not simply let them carry out their mission.
     
    You can ban the proselytizing of Islam like we do for other religions in Muslim countries. It may or may not have much effect since many converts nowadays find their info on the web.

    This is in fact the moral high ground.
     
    Look, if you consider the equivalent to the Alhambra Decree to be the moral high ground, that is fine with me.

    You recognized that your people made a mistake. Then own up to it and say; OK, we screwed up, we'll own it, we just want separation - let's divvy up the country and go our own way.

    I mean you can of course expel us (including converts) and make every other religion illegal in Canada. Which is fine, but something tells me that's going to be a tough sell since Christians have spent so much time and effort positioning themselves as so much more open and tolerant than Islamic Law. I mean, are you telling me the Shariah actually makes room for living and sharing space with law-abiding non-Muslims (even if it assumes ) and the only solution Christians can come up with is wholesale expulsions of non-criminal Muslim citizens?

    Are the children of 3rd world immigrants *happy* in Canada?
     
    It's probably better if you simply ask them.

    Europeans can either wake up, or go extinct in the near future.
     
    I have zero interest in European extinction. I'd like them to stick around. As I've stated, the converts I know have plenty of kids, the Bosnians I know have the most of any other group in my area. Islam has a fairly good track record in ensuring one's genetic lines will continue.

    When they start pushing non-Canadians into the communities, you will have power over zoning and infrastructure.
     
    Exactly - what counts the most here is the ability to affect things locally since that constitutes your day-to-day business.

    I do appreciate your honesty
     
    No problem.

    rather than 99% of “Canadian” Muslims who spout off the usual tripe about coming here for a better life and wanting to become Canadian.
     
    I don't see what is dishonest about this. If you were to ask me why my parents came here; I would say - because they wanted a better, materially-prosperous life. If you asked me whether I considered myself American or Pakistani; I would say I am American (if I ever visit Pakistan, my relatives remind me of this fact).

    As far as why I stay, well; as my spiritual teachers have taught me, one should not abide in a non-Muslim country (due to the pressures on one's faith) unless one is there to invite people to Islam and be of service to society. "Muh material prosperity" is not worth the risk to one's soul.

    they were always so phony and I felt like they were liars
     
    I don't think most SJW Muslims are phony - I actually think they are very sincere in their misguided ideas.

    But only one of our civilizations can survive, so I will look out for the logical interests of myself and my people.
     
    I personally don't see it as a zero-sum game, but I understand your perspective. No harm, no foul.

    Peace.

    I ran out of time…should have said:

    (even if it assumes that Muslims don’t up the keys to power in the society)

  226. @Talha

    specifically a 3rd world one, which is to spread your religion
     
    I have seen no difference between me and my convert brothers in this regard; they also want to spread Islam among their people. My sister-in-law converted through seeing the changes in my wife, her older sister.

    you are still the tool of the elites’ plan for destruction
     
    The way I see it, Islam is right now the most potent force against many of the elite's plans for destruction.

    yet we do not simply let them carry out their mission.
     
    You can ban the proselytizing of Islam like we do for other religions in Muslim countries. It may or may not have much effect since many converts nowadays find their info on the web.

    This is in fact the moral high ground.
     
    Look, if you consider the equivalent to the Alhambra Decree to be the moral high ground, that is fine with me.

    You recognized that your people made a mistake. Then own up to it and say; OK, we screwed up, we'll own it, we just want separation - let's divvy up the country and go our own way.

    I mean you can of course expel us (including converts) and make every other religion illegal in Canada. Which is fine, but something tells me that's going to be a tough sell since Christians have spent so much time and effort positioning themselves as so much more open and tolerant than Islamic Law. I mean, are you telling me the Shariah actually makes room for living and sharing space with law-abiding non-Muslims (even if it assumes ) and the only solution Christians can come up with is wholesale expulsions of non-criminal Muslim citizens?

    Are the children of 3rd world immigrants *happy* in Canada?
     
    It's probably better if you simply ask them.

    Europeans can either wake up, or go extinct in the near future.
     
    I have zero interest in European extinction. I'd like them to stick around. As I've stated, the converts I know have plenty of kids, the Bosnians I know have the most of any other group in my area. Islam has a fairly good track record in ensuring one's genetic lines will continue.

    When they start pushing non-Canadians into the communities, you will have power over zoning and infrastructure.
     
    Exactly - what counts the most here is the ability to affect things locally since that constitutes your day-to-day business.

    I do appreciate your honesty
     
    No problem.

    rather than 99% of “Canadian” Muslims who spout off the usual tripe about coming here for a better life and wanting to become Canadian.
     
    I don't see what is dishonest about this. If you were to ask me why my parents came here; I would say - because they wanted a better, materially-prosperous life. If you asked me whether I considered myself American or Pakistani; I would say I am American (if I ever visit Pakistan, my relatives remind me of this fact).

    As far as why I stay, well; as my spiritual teachers have taught me, one should not abide in a non-Muslim country (due to the pressures on one's faith) unless one is there to invite people to Islam and be of service to society. "Muh material prosperity" is not worth the risk to one's soul.

    they were always so phony and I felt like they were liars
     
    I don't think most SJW Muslims are phony - I actually think they are very sincere in their misguided ideas.

    But only one of our civilizations can survive, so I will look out for the logical interests of myself and my people.
     
    I personally don't see it as a zero-sum game, but I understand your perspective. No harm, no foul.

    Peace.

    “Muh material prosperity” is not worth the risk to one’s soul.

    Have you asked your parents if it was worth the risk?

    • Replies: @Talha
    My parents have changed since they came here actually. My mother especially. Her priorities are very different than when she first came. She was always the spiritual backbone of our family (having taught me my daily prayers, reminded to pray them [when I would have rather kept watching the hockey game], taught me to read Qur'an and sat patiently through me first reading through it, etc.).

    But now she is a pillar in her local community; many of the younger women look up to her. Even in her 70's she is trying to memorize more of the Qur'an and recently mastered proper recitation under Syrian teachers in her locale*.

    We had a talk along similar grounds when I last visited. She was very happy that her two boys were firm on the faith*. If we had gone wayward - like some of my relatives (I honestly don't see Islam lasting in their lives another generation or two) - I think she would have regretted it very much. She said she did not know how to thank God for marrying her sons off to two loving and pious women. She was especially happy that my wife was studying the religion in such depth and teaching it*.

    Peace.

    *MashaAllah
  227. @iffen
    He has a problem. That’s O.K. I just don’t want to be part of his online therapy.

    Why not, what’s it cost you?

    Because it happened.

    Just because some troll got his dander up is no reason for you to come in with a high-five.

    Like you wrote, it takes a while for the character to come through.

    More importantly, he was giving a bad advice to an average American. I know that a Brit or Australian would’t buy it, but, this IS an American site. Bad advice of type which can get somebody killed or maimed/imprisoned for life.

    Seriously? He saved (?)(ha-ha) the life of a troll and you are excited.

    What is your basis for claiming that stupid Americans are more stupid than stupid Australians.

    But, I know some people who took a very bad advice from similar types and didn’t end well.

    You? Projection?

    My intention was to point to very simple: do….not….do…that.

    Killing other people is a nasty business, but somebody’s got to do it.

    If not for that I would’ve skipped all that “CT” and “recruitment” chat in the first place.
    Just….not interesting.

    Yeah, right.

    Now, back to the topic which does interest me. The article’s title and definitive lack of related conversation. That speaks volumes, actually.

    Moment of clarity.

    We are coming apart at the seams. It appears that it will not end well. Stock up on MREs and cases of ammo.

    Moment of clarity.

    We are coming apart at the seams. It appears that it will not end well.

    Yep.

    Stock up on MREs and cases of ammo.

    Won’t work…..for “deplorables”.

    • Replies: @iffen
    Won’t work…..for “deplorables”.

    Apparently you are not surrounded by enough deplorables.
  228. @peterAUS

    Moment of clarity.
     

    We are coming apart at the seams. It appears that it will not end well.
     
    Yep.

    Stock up on MREs and cases of ammo.
     
    Won't work.....for "deplorables".

    Won’t work…..for “deplorables”.

    Apparently you are not surrounded by enough deplorables.

  229. @iffen
    “Muh material prosperity” is not worth the risk to one’s soul.

    Have you asked your parents if it was worth the risk?

    My parents have changed since they came here actually. My mother especially. Her priorities are very different than when she first came. She was always the spiritual backbone of our family (having taught me my daily prayers, reminded to pray them [when I would have rather kept watching the hockey game], taught me to read Qur’an and sat patiently through me first reading through it, etc.).

    But now she is a pillar in her local community; many of the younger women look up to her. Even in her 70’s she is trying to memorize more of the Qur’an and recently mastered proper recitation under Syrian teachers in her locale*.

    We had a talk along similar grounds when I last visited. She was very happy that her two boys were firm on the faith*. If we had gone wayward – like some of my relatives (I honestly don’t see Islam lasting in their lives another generation or two) – I think she would have regretted it very much. She said she did not know how to thank God for marrying her sons off to two loving and pious women. She was especially happy that my wife was studying the religion in such depth and teaching it*.

    Peace.

    *MashaAllah

    • Replies: @iffen
    She was always the spiritual backbone of our family

    Even in her 70’s she is trying to memorize more of the Qur’an

    Reminds me of my mother. She continously read the Bible front to back. I think that she was on her 13th when she died. You likely know how badly I feel that I am not sure if it was the 13th or not.
  230. @Mr. Rational
    I can't tell if you're serious or not.

    You’re a thoughtful, perspicacious guy. These threads are full of insights. I don’t think we do the ourselves any favors by making it impossible for people to recommend the posts/comments at Unz to friends or colleagues.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    I don't think we do anyone any favors by narrowing the Overton window to what the SJWs allow for terminology, and certainly don't do ourselves any favors by denying the chance to vent using mildly un-PC language.  That way goes the un-personing of Gandhi for using the word "kaffir".
  231. @Talha
    My parents have changed since they came here actually. My mother especially. Her priorities are very different than when she first came. She was always the spiritual backbone of our family (having taught me my daily prayers, reminded to pray them [when I would have rather kept watching the hockey game], taught me to read Qur'an and sat patiently through me first reading through it, etc.).

    But now she is a pillar in her local community; many of the younger women look up to her. Even in her 70's she is trying to memorize more of the Qur'an and recently mastered proper recitation under Syrian teachers in her locale*.

    We had a talk along similar grounds when I last visited. She was very happy that her two boys were firm on the faith*. If we had gone wayward - like some of my relatives (I honestly don't see Islam lasting in their lives another generation or two) - I think she would have regretted it very much. She said she did not know how to thank God for marrying her sons off to two loving and pious women. She was especially happy that my wife was studying the religion in such depth and teaching it*.

    Peace.

    *MashaAllah

    She was always the spiritual backbone of our family

    Even in her 70’s she is trying to memorize more of the Qur’an

    Reminds me of my mother. She continously read the Bible front to back. I think that she was on her 13th when she died. You likely know how badly I feel that I am not sure if it was the 13th or not.

    • Replies: @peterAUS

    Reminds me of my mother. She continously read the Bible front to back. I think that she was on her 13th when she died. You likely know how badly I feel that I am not sure if it was the 13th or not.
     
    Informative, for:

    .... it takes a while for the character to come through.
     

    Apparently you are not surrounded by enough deplorables
     
    Nope, not of that type, no.

    Your posts do make sense now.
    You, me, whatever.

    What is interesting, though, it appears that such....character.....does represent a sizable part of "deplorables".
    No wonder.
    , @Talha
    Women are the spiritual backbone of a community. I come from a patriarchal culture and a religion that has little problems with the institution of patriarchy (in fact endorses it), but any serious culture will recognize that - it may be the men that often have the public role and wear the public face - but it is the women that do the groundwork and the day-to-day that makes a community spiritually successful.

    She continously read the Bible front to back. I think that she was on her 13th when she died.
     
    Women are tremendously spiritual creatures. Even in atheist societies, they tend to remain more spiritual or believing than men. Why that is, I'm not 100% sure, but there are a few things that stand out:
    1) They are the vessels by which human beings come into this world, the containers for souls/spirits other than their own. I don't know if I mentioned this before, but the tri-letter root in Arabic for "mercy" is r-H-m - which is the same root for "womb", because it is the penultimate manifestation of mercy in the world.
    2) I've always thought there's something tragic about the way we raise girls. We raise them telling them about princesses, calling them princesses and loading their minds up with that image. And they go through life and their heart is often broken by men who should have treated them better. Their dream of being a princess eventually gets discarded and long forgotten and the dreams of others like their children take over their concern. And then when she finally gets space to think about herself, she's an old woman and maybe her own children have disappointed her and broken her heart. But deep down buried under all those layers of decades of life, she dreams she's still that princess and she knows One hasn't forgotten and clings to the hope that One will never disappoint her and grant her that dream.

    You likely know how badly I feel that I am not sure if it was the 13th or not.
     
    I'm going to call my mother today (it's been a few days), thanks for the reminder.

    Peace.
  232. @Twinkie

    So what? What does he do to eliminate it? You put too much faith in the “system.”
     
    It's in bad form to put yourself in another man's house and not abide by his house rules.

    Whether the owner of the house enforces the rules or not (and how efficaciously) doesn't change that fact, and is an entirely separate matter from whether or not one has "too much faith in the 'system.'"

    This is the fundamental difference between civilized people and those who are just parasites/opportunists who operate on "what can I get away with?"

    When the IPs are different I’m not sure how to easily manage it via WP, sorry. Lots of good information from Twinkie all the same. I appreciate his putting it out there even if it was offered in good faith in response to something asked in bad faith.

    • Replies: @iffen
    I guess that I stand corrected, maybe he couldn't fix it even if he wanted to.

    How about we have a comment section where a new IP is bracketed for the first 3 or 5 comments.

    , @peterAUS

    When the IPs are different I’m not sure how to easily manage it via WP, sorry.
     
    Well....privacy related, you are aware, I hope, that there are (software) tools and methodologies to address that?

    The "Five Eyes" can figure you, me, anyone, out online pretty much regardless of what we do, or don't, if they really want to.

    Bottom line, against them, there is no privacy here. Or against any developed state level player when you think about it.

    I feel people posting here, or anywhere, simply should be aware of that.

    Yes, there are IT related tools and methods one could use to protect his/her privacy. The catch is, using those can, very likely, trigger a "red" flag somewhere and then they'll really start paying attention to that person/persons.
    I am positive nobody posting here would want that.
    , @Twinkie

    Lots of good information from Twinkie all the same. I appreciate his putting it out there even if it was offered in good faith in response to something asked in bad faith.
     
    I appreciate the kind words.

    When the IPs are different I’m not sure how to easily manage it via WP, sorry.
     
    No need to be sorry on my account. I never asked for any sock puppet or troll control. Though I think some moderation is needed to prevent things from getting out hand, I generally think that trolls, clowns, and morons usually reveal themselves, and the public at large learns to ignore them sooner or later.
  233. @iffen
    She was always the spiritual backbone of our family

    Even in her 70’s she is trying to memorize more of the Qur’an

    Reminds me of my mother. She continously read the Bible front to back. I think that she was on her 13th when she died. You likely know how badly I feel that I am not sure if it was the 13th or not.

    Reminds me of my mother. She continously read the Bible front to back. I think that she was on her 13th when she died. You likely know how badly I feel that I am not sure if it was the 13th or not.

    Informative, for:

    …. it takes a while for the character to come through.

    Apparently you are not surrounded by enough deplorables

    Nope, not of that type, no.

    Your posts do make sense now.
    You, me, whatever.

    What is interesting, though, it appears that such….character…..does represent a sizable part of “deplorables”.
    No wonder.

  234. @iffen
    She was always the spiritual backbone of our family

    Even in her 70’s she is trying to memorize more of the Qur’an

    Reminds me of my mother. She continously read the Bible front to back. I think that she was on her 13th when she died. You likely know how badly I feel that I am not sure if it was the 13th or not.

    Women are the spiritual backbone of a community. I come from a patriarchal culture and a religion that has little problems with the institution of patriarchy (in fact endorses it), but any serious culture will recognize that – it may be the men that often have the public role and wear the public face – but it is the women that do the groundwork and the day-to-day that makes a community spiritually successful.

    She continously read the Bible front to back. I think that she was on her 13th when she died.

    Women are tremendously spiritual creatures. Even in atheist societies, they tend to remain more spiritual or believing than men. Why that is, I’m not 100% sure, but there are a few things that stand out:
    1) They are the vessels by which human beings come into this world, the containers for souls/spirits other than their own. I don’t know if I mentioned this before, but the tri-letter root in Arabic for “mercy” is r-H-m – which is the same root for “womb”, because it is the penultimate manifestation of mercy in the world.
    2) I’ve always thought there’s something tragic about the way we raise girls. We raise them telling them about princesses, calling them princesses and loading their minds up with that image. And they go through life and their heart is often broken by men who should have treated them better. Their dream of being a princess eventually gets discarded and long forgotten and the dreams of others like their children take over their concern. And then when she finally gets space to think about herself, she’s an old woman and maybe her own children have disappointed her and broken her heart. But deep down buried under all those layers of decades of life, she dreams she’s still that princess and she knows One hasn’t forgotten and clings to the hope that One will never disappoint her and grant her that dream.

    You likely know how badly I feel that I am not sure if it was the 13th or not.

    I’m going to call my mother today (it’s been a few days), thanks for the reminder.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
    I’m going to call my mother today

    Good for you.

    The dreams of some Nordic princesses do come true, no?

    BTW, I'm sure that you know that my mother never had any inkling that I had become an atheist. I was always, "well, I can't find the right church, etc., etc., etc.)
  235. @Audacious Epigone
    When the IPs are different I'm not sure how to easily manage it via WP, sorry. Lots of good information from Twinkie all the same. I appreciate his putting it out there even if it was offered in good faith in response to something asked in bad faith.

    I guess that I stand corrected, maybe he couldn’t fix it even if he wanted to.

    How about we have a comment section where a new IP is bracketed for the first 3 or 5 comments.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    That's an idea, though one I'd only implement reluctantly. I really don't want to have to police the comments section.
  236. @Audacious Epigone
    When the IPs are different I'm not sure how to easily manage it via WP, sorry. Lots of good information from Twinkie all the same. I appreciate his putting it out there even if it was offered in good faith in response to something asked in bad faith.

    When the IPs are different I’m not sure how to easily manage it via WP, sorry.

    Well….privacy related, you are aware, I hope, that there are (software) tools and methodologies to address that?

    The “Five Eyes” can figure you, me, anyone, out online pretty much regardless of what we do, or don’t, if they really want to.

    Bottom line, against them, there is no privacy here. Or against any developed state level player when you think about it.

    I feel people posting here, or anywhere, simply should be aware of that.

    Yes, there are IT related tools and methods one could use to protect his/her privacy. The catch is, using those can, very likely, trigger a “red” flag somewhere and then they’ll really start paying attention to that person/persons.
    I am positive nobody posting here would want that.

  237. @Talha
    Women are the spiritual backbone of a community. I come from a patriarchal culture and a religion that has little problems with the institution of patriarchy (in fact endorses it), but any serious culture will recognize that - it may be the men that often have the public role and wear the public face - but it is the women that do the groundwork and the day-to-day that makes a community spiritually successful.

    She continously read the Bible front to back. I think that she was on her 13th when she died.
     
    Women are tremendously spiritual creatures. Even in atheist societies, they tend to remain more spiritual or believing than men. Why that is, I'm not 100% sure, but there are a few things that stand out:
    1) They are the vessels by which human beings come into this world, the containers for souls/spirits other than their own. I don't know if I mentioned this before, but the tri-letter root in Arabic for "mercy" is r-H-m - which is the same root for "womb", because it is the penultimate manifestation of mercy in the world.
    2) I've always thought there's something tragic about the way we raise girls. We raise them telling them about princesses, calling them princesses and loading their minds up with that image. And they go through life and their heart is often broken by men who should have treated them better. Their dream of being a princess eventually gets discarded and long forgotten and the dreams of others like their children take over their concern. And then when she finally gets space to think about herself, she's an old woman and maybe her own children have disappointed her and broken her heart. But deep down buried under all those layers of decades of life, she dreams she's still that princess and she knows One hasn't forgotten and clings to the hope that One will never disappoint her and grant her that dream.

    You likely know how badly I feel that I am not sure if it was the 13th or not.
     
    I'm going to call my mother today (it's been a few days), thanks for the reminder.

    Peace.

    I’m going to call my mother today

    Good for you.

    The dreams of some Nordic princesses do come true, no?

    BTW, I’m sure that you know that my mother never had any inkling that I had become an atheist. I was always, “well, I can’t find the right church, etc., etc., etc.)

    • Replies: @Talha

    The dreams of some Nordic princesses do come true, no?
     
    If she is true to Him, I'm sure God will deliver.
    "...It is a promise from God in truth; and whose words can be truer than those of God?"

    I was always, “well, I can’t find the right church, etc., etc., etc.)
     
    If you knew that would break her heart, I think you did the right thing by not telling her; what good would it have done anyway?

    Peace.
  238. @iffen
    I’m going to call my mother today

    Good for you.

    The dreams of some Nordic princesses do come true, no?

    BTW, I'm sure that you know that my mother never had any inkling that I had become an atheist. I was always, "well, I can't find the right church, etc., etc., etc.)

    The dreams of some Nordic princesses do come true, no?

    If she is true to Him, I’m sure God will deliver.
    “…It is a promise from God in truth; and whose words can be truer than those of God?”

    I was always, “well, I can’t find the right church, etc., etc., etc.)

    If you knew that would break her heart, I think you did the right thing by not telling her; what good would it have done anyway?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
    what good would it have done anyway

    None.

    The truth will set you free...

    from many friends and loved ones.
  239. @Talha

    The dreams of some Nordic princesses do come true, no?
     
    If she is true to Him, I'm sure God will deliver.
    "...It is a promise from God in truth; and whose words can be truer than those of God?"

    I was always, “well, I can’t find the right church, etc., etc., etc.)
     
    If you knew that would break her heart, I think you did the right thing by not telling her; what good would it have done anyway?

    Peace.

    what good would it have done anyway

    None.

    The truth will set you free…

    from many friends and loved ones.

  240. @Audacious Epigone
    You're a thoughtful, perspicacious guy. These threads are full of insights. I don't think we do the ourselves any favors by making it impossible for people to recommend the posts/comments at Unz to friends or colleagues.

    I don’t think we do anyone any favors by narrowing the Overton window to what the SJWs allow for terminology, and certainly don’t do ourselves any favors by denying the chance to vent using mildly un-PC language.  That way goes the un-personing of Gandhi for using the word “kaffir”.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    don’t do ourselves any favors by denying the chance to vent using mildly un-PC language.
     
    Rewards vs. benefits. What are you gaining and what are you losing by using "mildly un-PC language" that a large majority of the population might find horrendous, not just slightly off-putting? Do you want to vent or do you want to win?

    Also, my study of history (of revolutions) tells me that the kind of people who see their enemies as sub-humans and treat them as such, once in power, inevitably turn their ire toward their erstwhile allies who are not deemed pure enough for their tastes.

    Contrast that to the gentleman-rebels our Founding Fathers were (George Washington kept insisting on us Americans having and utilizing a legitimate European-style standing army to defeat the British even when guerilla warfare might have been easier and possibly more efficacious, and our militias were initially terrible at fighting open battles).
    , @Audacious Epigone
    There's a balance here. But if I refer a thread to someone interested in topics outside the Overton Window that are covered here and the first response he gives me is how he doesn't want anything to do with n-bombs, I don't think we're doing any favors in permitting them, either. Too easy for saboteurs to invalidate entire threads.
  241. @iffen
    Twinkie's not good at dialogue (interpersonal skills as you say), but I knew that, so I should have stayed out.

    That said, would you explain why you think that this is important enough to mention?


    Be that as it may, he still got you.

    Twinkie’s not good at dialogue (interpersonal skills as you say)

    I am unfailingly polite to those of good will. If anything, I tend to indulge even those who are not of such good will and try to engage them in a thoughtful, substantive discussion.

    But even I have limits. And sometimes you have to call a jackass what he is. See my comment to “peterAUS” below, where I point out some problems with his “wisdom.”

    In any case, I am going to try my darndest to avoid getting sucked into a conversation with what my wife calls “morons on the Internet.”

    • Replies: @iffen
    I am unfailingly polite to those of good will.

    No you are not. I know this for a fact because I am a person of good will except toward my enemies and I don’t count you as an enemy.

    And sometimes you have to call a jackass what he is.

    No you don’t. You can just ignore it.

    In any case, I am going to try my darndest to avoid getting sucked into a conversation with what my wife calls “morons on the Internet.”

    That is very good advice which will be hit or miss for you.

    If I may, a little psycho-dabbling:

    You are extremely constrained by a rigid hierarchal mindset. (This is why you appeal to higher authority when you get into these “discussions.”) And I am not saying that hierarchy is bad or not needed. You are at your best when making open expository comments. You should think twice before making tagged replies. You do not like for those that you consider lower in the hierarchy to question you or disagree with what you have written. If they do, you tend get into these food fights and even pursue them into the comment sections of other blogs. This is not RL and you would benefit by making adjustments to the nature of comment sections and not try to replicate the “ideal” from your personal life here. You don’t consider us as your “equal” and some can’t keep themselves from returning the favor.

    Two personality faults: You couldn’t find humility in the dictionary even with the aid of a pack of excellent seeing-eye dogs. You react like you think comments are Scripture. They are not. You need to relax and see the humor, satire and parody here.

    Learn to make use of the CTI tab.

    Twinkie’s not good at dialogue (interpersonal skills as you say), but I knew that, so I should have stayed out.

    See, we all have faults. I can’t take my own advice either.
  242. @peterAUS

    Twinkie’s not good at dialogue (interpersonal skills as you say), but I knew that, so I should have stayed out.
     
    My take: he's one of those peculiar types that pop up every now and then on Internet when there is talk about military related matters.
    He has a problem. That's O.K. I just don't want to be part of his online therapy.

    That said, would you explain why you think that this is important enough to mention?

    Be that as it may, he still got you.
     
    Because it happened.
    More importantly, he was giving a bad advice to an average American. I know that a Brit or Australian would't buy it, but, this IS an American site. Bad advice of type which can get somebody killed or maimed/imprisoned for life.

    Now, I really don't care about those online personalities as long as they keep to their online sessions. But, I know some people who took a very bad advice from similar types and didn't end well.
    My intention was to point to very simple: do....not....do...that.
    If not for that I would've skipped all that "CT" and "recruitment" chat in the first place. Just....not interesting.

    Now, back to the topic which does interest me. The article's title and definitive lack of related conversation. That speaks volumes, actually.
    Moment of clarity.

    He has a problem. That’s O.K. I just don’t want to be part of his online therapy.

    There is a very consistent pattern to how these conversations go on the Internet. Usually some wannabe starts opining forth on subjects about which he has Wikipedia knowledge at best. Then actual experts on the subject matter try to correct and inform with accurate information. At this point, either the wannabe disappears to avoid embarrassment or he starts diverting the conversation to the experts’ persona, argument style, etc. straight into remote, anonymous, armchair psychological diagnosis, all in an effort to still “win” (“Maybe what you are saying is true, but something is wrong with you!”). Note that at this point he avoids all reference to the specifics, especially his inaccurate assertions of earlier that have been pointed out.

    I hope you have enough cerebral matter to figure out who is who in this thread.

    Be that as it may, he still got you… Because it happened.

    What is “it” there? What happened? You and “Tyrion 2/career” putting strawmen words to my mouth and claiming “Aha! We got you!” is not exactly fooling anyone.

    I will give you the specifics. Even though I specified the term “paramilitary/direct action,” you and that troll kept steering the conversation to “Tier 1” SOCOM units. *I* never, once, wrote the words “special operations” in this thread – do a “find” for yourself on this page. Only you two clowns brought up that term.

    I usually choose my words very carefully about such things – with specificity. I included “paramilitary” above for a reason – so as to include forces under civilian law enforcement and intelligence community control that do direct action (vis-à-vis terrorists in this context). And regarding getting into such an organization, I wrote:

    “Career”: It is nice to know that I may not have to spend years with the regular military first.

    Me: While that is not impossible, it’s exceedingly difficult unless you have prior mil/intel/LE experience. I hope I did not give you an impression to the contrary.

    Now let’s look at the job posting for the CIA SAD paramilitary operations officer, shall we?
    https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/clandestine/cmo-specialist.html

    US citizenship required (dual-national US citizens eligible). All positions require relocation to the Washington, DC metro area.

    Minimum Qualifications:
    •Bachelor’s degree from an accredited institution (applicants within one year of earning a four year degree will be considered); there is no preferred major or program of study (degrees from foreign academic institutions are accepted, but you are responsible for obtaining and providing CIA with a credential evaluation from an accredited firm confirming that the foreign degree is the equivalent of a BA/BS and/or MA/MS degree conferred by a US college or university)
    •GPA of at least 3.0 on a 4-point scale is preferred
    •Personal integrity
    •Strong interpersonal and communication skills (verbal and written)
    •Action- and results-oriented
    •Ability to work effectively as part of a team and independently;
    •Flexibility, adaptability, and commitment to the mission of the CIA and the Directorate of Operations
    •Ability to make decisions to meet existing conditions and mission requirements rather than relying on preset assumptions and goal

    Desired Qualifications:
    Competitive Paramilitary Operations Officer applicants have:
    •Military special operations or combat arms experience (ground, air or maritime)
    •Experience serving in combat leadership positions
    •Willingness to serve in hazardous and austere environments overseas (previous foreign travel and foreign language is valued, but not required)

    Note that while desired qualifications include mil special operations/combat arms experience, it is not a part of the minimum qualifications requirement. Why is that? It’s very simple. A large majority of CIA SAD paramilitaries IS made up of men with the desired qualifications, but a small number is not. CIA wants to keep a small number of slots open for those few exceptional candidates without the requisite combat experience and also so that it can recruit people from within the agency. That’s why the combat experience is not a part of the required qualifications set. Hence my earlier words “exceedingly difficult” (rather than “impossible”) without relevant experience.

    Meanwhile, you are so ineptly stupid that you thought “paramilitary” referred to some hired thugs working for Third World governments to beat up civilians. Yes, that is how that word is used in that context, but NOT in the context of First World mil/intel/LE.

    But, I know some people who took a very bad advice from similar types and didn’t end well.

    I don’t know what the heck you are talking about, but you seem to think I told a bunch of high school kids to join the Marine Corps and go kill some villagers at My Lai. This is what I actually wrote regarding someone who wants to get into hunting terrorists:

    There is high impact in several of the subfields I listed. Gunslinging is sexy-sounding, but it’s months of training, weeks of preparations, days of mission planning, hours of transport (and walking), all punctuated by very rare minutes of extremely stressful action.

    Although I rarely, if ever, said, “Gee, I wish I had better gunslingers” in that line of work, I certainly said, very often, “I wish I had better (or more accurately, “less f-d up”) intel.”

    Try your best to summon forth reading comprehension skills you apparently lack and figure out what I am recommending above. It’s the opposite of what you think.

    Now, back to the topic which does interest me.

    I think this means that you recognize your pretend-expertise has been discovered.

    The article’s title and definitive lack of related conversation. That speaks volumes, actually. Moment of clarity.

    Three sentences and only one verb. Did you learn to form phrases from the Shaolin monk in the TV show “Kung Fu” (is that reference old enough for you)?

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2

    DESIRED QUALIFICATIONS:
    Competitive Paramilitary Operations Officer applicants have:

    Military special operations or combat arms experience (ground, air or maritime)
    Experience serving in combat leadership positions
    Willingness to serve in hazardous and austere environments overseas (previous foreign travel and foreign language is valued, but not required
     
    The word "competitive" is quite clear. This isn't the storyline to Jack Reacher.

    Furthermore, such people are not carrying Japanese swords on them when/or going out on patrol, nor do they have nicknames like "Grim Reaper", nor do they constantly reference it on internet fora or actually ever reference it at all.

    Is it possible that you're the one in a million hire from the linguist pool? I suppose, on the internet anything can be true. I'm the former Hand of the King! Still, you sure don't act like it.
  243. @Audacious Epigone
    When the IPs are different I'm not sure how to easily manage it via WP, sorry. Lots of good information from Twinkie all the same. I appreciate his putting it out there even if it was offered in good faith in response to something asked in bad faith.

    Lots of good information from Twinkie all the same. I appreciate his putting it out there even if it was offered in good faith in response to something asked in bad faith.

    I appreciate the kind words.

    When the IPs are different I’m not sure how to easily manage it via WP, sorry.

    No need to be sorry on my account. I never asked for any sock puppet or troll control. Though I think some moderation is needed to prevent things from getting out hand, I generally think that trolls, clowns, and morons usually reveal themselves, and the public at large learns to ignore them sooner or later.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  244. @iffen
    He has a problem. That’s O.K. I just don’t want to be part of his online therapy.

    Why not, what’s it cost you?

    Because it happened.

    Just because some troll got his dander up is no reason for you to come in with a high-five.

    Like you wrote, it takes a while for the character to come through.

    More importantly, he was giving a bad advice to an average American. I know that a Brit or Australian would’t buy it, but, this IS an American site. Bad advice of type which can get somebody killed or maimed/imprisoned for life.

    Seriously? He saved (?)(ha-ha) the life of a troll and you are excited.

    What is your basis for claiming that stupid Americans are more stupid than stupid Australians.

    But, I know some people who took a very bad advice from similar types and didn’t end well.

    You? Projection?

    My intention was to point to very simple: do….not….do…that.

    Killing other people is a nasty business, but somebody’s got to do it.

    If not for that I would’ve skipped all that “CT” and “recruitment” chat in the first place.
    Just….not interesting.

    Yeah, right.

    Now, back to the topic which does interest me. The article’s title and definitive lack of related conversation. That speaks volumes, actually.

    Moment of clarity.

    We are coming apart at the seams. It appears that it will not end well. Stock up on MREs and cases of ammo.

    Stock up on MREs and cases of ammo.

    MREs are stupid expensive and are a very poor proposition in terms of calories per dollar. It only makes sense if the government gives it to you for free.

    You can make your own emergency food at a tiny fraction of the cost of MREs. But if don’t care to do so or lack the minimal skills needed to make it work, check out the local Mormon canning operation. Mormons are big time into emergency preparation and will sell you canned food at relatively reasonable costs.

    https://www.lds.org/topics/food-storage?lang=eng

    https://providentliving.lds.org/self-reliance/home-storage-centers?lang=eng

  245. @Mr. Rational
    I don't think we do anyone any favors by narrowing the Overton window to what the SJWs allow for terminology, and certainly don't do ourselves any favors by denying the chance to vent using mildly un-PC language.  That way goes the un-personing of Gandhi for using the word "kaffir".

    don’t do ourselves any favors by denying the chance to vent using mildly un-PC language.

    Rewards vs. benefits. What are you gaining and what are you losing by using “mildly un-PC language” that a large majority of the population might find horrendous, not just slightly off-putting? Do you want to vent or do you want to win?

    Also, my study of history (of revolutions) tells me that the kind of people who see their enemies as sub-humans and treat them as such, once in power, inevitably turn their ire toward their erstwhile allies who are not deemed pure enough for their tastes.

    Contrast that to the gentleman-rebels our Founding Fathers were (George Washington kept insisting on us Americans having and utilizing a legitimate European-style standing army to defeat the British even when guerilla warfare might have been easier and possibly more efficacious, and our militias were initially terrible at fighting open battles).

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Mr. Rational

    my study of history (of revolutions) tells me that the kind of people who see their enemies as sub-humans and treat them as such, once in power, inevitably turn their ire toward their erstwhile allies who are not deemed pure enough for their tastes.
     
    You don't seem to have looked at much US wartime propaganda from WWII (I haven't seen enough from WWI to have an opinion).  Dehumanization of the enemy was the order of the day.  Some of my very own ancestors, US citizens for generations, may have been subject to some of that in WWI; I was never told about it, but hints that came down to me suggest that they may have been "interned".

    Do you want to vent or do you want to win?
     
    I want my people to break out of the dual trap of other-worship and self-hate so they CAN win.  This is impossible within the left's sacralizing linguistic, meaning ideological, frame.

    Things are very mild here.  Read Second City Cop for a while, and you'll see "shitskin".  Those guys are on the front line of the Africans' war on civilization, and tell it like it is.
  246. @Twinkie

    He has a problem. That’s O.K. I just don’t want to be part of his online therapy.
     
    There is a very consistent pattern to how these conversations go on the Internet. Usually some wannabe starts opining forth on subjects about which he has Wikipedia knowledge at best. Then actual experts on the subject matter try to correct and inform with accurate information. At this point, either the wannabe disappears to avoid embarrassment or he starts diverting the conversation to the experts' persona, argument style, etc. straight into remote, anonymous, armchair psychological diagnosis, all in an effort to still "win" ("Maybe what you are saying is true, but something is wrong with you!"). Note that at this point he avoids all reference to the specifics, especially his inaccurate assertions of earlier that have been pointed out.

    I hope you have enough cerebral matter to figure out who is who in this thread.

    Be that as it may, he still got you... Because it happened.
     
    What is "it" there? What happened? You and "Tyrion 2/career" putting strawmen words to my mouth and claiming "Aha! We got you!" is not exactly fooling anyone.

    I will give you the specifics. Even though I specified the term "paramilitary/direct action," you and that troll kept steering the conversation to "Tier 1" SOCOM units. *I* never, once, wrote the words "special operations" in this thread - do a "find" for yourself on this page. Only you two clowns brought up that term.

    I usually choose my words very carefully about such things - with specificity. I included "paramilitary" above for a reason - so as to include forces under civilian law enforcement and intelligence community control that do direct action (vis-à-vis terrorists in this context). And regarding getting into such an organization, I wrote:

    "Career": It is nice to know that I may not have to spend years with the regular military first.

    Me: While that is not impossible, it’s exceedingly difficult unless you have prior mil/intel/LE experience. I hope I did not give you an impression to the contrary.
     
    Now let's look at the job posting for the CIA SAD paramilitary operations officer, shall we?
    https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/clandestine/cmo-specialist.html

    US citizenship required (dual-national US citizens eligible). All positions require relocation to the Washington, DC metro area.

    Minimum Qualifications:
    •Bachelor's degree from an accredited institution (applicants within one year of earning a four year degree will be considered); there is no preferred major or program of study (degrees from foreign academic institutions are accepted, but you are responsible for obtaining and providing CIA with a credential evaluation from an accredited firm confirming that the foreign degree is the equivalent of a BA/BS and/or MA/MS degree conferred by a US college or university)
    •GPA of at least 3.0 on a 4-point scale is preferred
    •Personal integrity
    •Strong interpersonal and communication skills (verbal and written)
    •Action- and results-oriented
    •Ability to work effectively as part of a team and independently;
    •Flexibility, adaptability, and commitment to the mission of the CIA and the Directorate of Operations
    •Ability to make decisions to meet existing conditions and mission requirements rather than relying on preset assumptions and goal

    Desired Qualifications:
    Competitive Paramilitary Operations Officer applicants have:
    •Military special operations or combat arms experience (ground, air or maritime)
    •Experience serving in combat leadership positions
    •Willingness to serve in hazardous and austere environments overseas (previous foreign travel and foreign language is valued, but not required)
     
    Note that while desired qualifications include mil special operations/combat arms experience, it is not a part of the minimum qualifications requirement. Why is that? It's very simple. A large majority of CIA SAD paramilitaries IS made up of men with the desired qualifications, but a small number is not. CIA wants to keep a small number of slots open for those few exceptional candidates without the requisite combat experience and also so that it can recruit people from within the agency. That's why the combat experience is not a part of the required qualifications set. Hence my earlier words "exceedingly difficult" (rather than "impossible") without relevant experience.

    Meanwhile, you are so ineptly stupid that you thought "paramilitary" referred to some hired thugs working for Third World governments to beat up civilians. Yes, that is how that word is used in that context, but NOT in the context of First World mil/intel/LE.

    But, I know some people who took a very bad advice from similar types and didn’t end well.
     
    I don't know what the heck you are talking about, but you seem to think I told a bunch of high school kids to join the Marine Corps and go kill some villagers at My Lai. This is what I actually wrote regarding someone who wants to get into hunting terrorists:

    There is high impact in several of the subfields I listed. Gunslinging is sexy-sounding, but it’s months of training, weeks of preparations, days of mission planning, hours of transport (and walking), all punctuated by very rare minutes of extremely stressful action.

    Although I rarely, if ever, said, “Gee, I wish I had better gunslingers” in that line of work, I certainly said, very often, “I wish I had better (or more accurately, “less f-d up”) intel.”
     
    Try your best to summon forth reading comprehension skills you apparently lack and figure out what I am recommending above. It's the opposite of what you think.

    Now, back to the topic which does interest me.
     
    I think this means that you recognize your pretend-expertise has been discovered.

    The article’s title and definitive lack of related conversation. That speaks volumes, actually. Moment of clarity.
     
    Three sentences and only one verb. Did you learn to form phrases from the Shaolin monk in the TV show "Kung Fu" (is that reference old enough for you)?

    DESIRED QUALIFICATIONS:
    Competitive Paramilitary Operations Officer applicants have:

    Military special operations or combat arms experience (ground, air or maritime)
    Experience serving in combat leadership positions
    Willingness to serve in hazardous and austere environments overseas (previous foreign travel and foreign language is valued, but not required

    The word “competitive” is quite clear. This isn’t the storyline to Jack Reacher.

    Furthermore, such people are not carrying Japanese swords on them when/or going out on patrol, nor do they have nicknames like “Grim Reaper”, nor do they constantly reference it on internet fora or actually ever reference it at all.

    Is it possible that you’re the one in a million hire from the linguist pool? I suppose, on the internet anything can be true. I’m the former Hand of the King! Still, you sure don’t act like it.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Is it possible that you’re the one in a million hire from the linguist pool?
     
    I wasn’t taking about me, troll. As I wrote earlier I had prior experiences (mil/investigative) both overseas and States-side. And please stop following me around Unz.com and leaving deranged ad hominem on every comment I make, like some sort of a jilted, psychotic girlfriend.
    , @Tyrion 2
    Just a note on how unlikely being hired to be a paramilitary CIA Officer from a non-military background is: the role will inevitably involve commanding, on the ground, Special Forces soldiers in combat. This is not a skill one picks up from martial arts lessons. Nor do martial arts lessons hold the respect of those soldiers. This route simply isn't plausible outside of Hollywood movies. Direct entry regular military officer is already pushing the boundaries of what can work - direct entry super special forces officer is utterly bizarre as a concept.

    Furthermore, looking inconspicuous is important. 6 foot 2" tall Koreans don't look inconspicuous in the West Bank, no matter how much make up they put on. Indeed is there anyone who could look less inconspicuous?
  247. @Tyrion 2

    DESIRED QUALIFICATIONS:
    Competitive Paramilitary Operations Officer applicants have:

    Military special operations or combat arms experience (ground, air or maritime)
    Experience serving in combat leadership positions
    Willingness to serve in hazardous and austere environments overseas (previous foreign travel and foreign language is valued, but not required
     
    The word "competitive" is quite clear. This isn't the storyline to Jack Reacher.

    Furthermore, such people are not carrying Japanese swords on them when/or going out on patrol, nor do they have nicknames like "Grim Reaper", nor do they constantly reference it on internet fora or actually ever reference it at all.

    Is it possible that you're the one in a million hire from the linguist pool? I suppose, on the internet anything can be true. I'm the former Hand of the King! Still, you sure don't act like it.

    Is it possible that you’re the one in a million hire from the linguist pool?

    I wasn’t taking about me, troll. As I wrote earlier I had prior experiences (mil/investigative) both overseas and States-side. And please stop following me around Unz.com and leaving deranged ad hominem on every comment I make, like some sort of a jilted, psychotic girlfriend.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    Omg! Your comment made reference to me...you're projecting so hard it I can feel it all the way here in Westeros. Now, Mr Reacher, please stop!

    Look...if you don't Walt so hard, I won't call you out on it. I really don't mind if you Walt softly.

  248. @Tyrion 2

    DESIRED QUALIFICATIONS:
    Competitive Paramilitary Operations Officer applicants have:

    Military special operations or combat arms experience (ground, air or maritime)
    Experience serving in combat leadership positions
    Willingness to serve in hazardous and austere environments overseas (previous foreign travel and foreign language is valued, but not required
     
    The word "competitive" is quite clear. This isn't the storyline to Jack Reacher.

    Furthermore, such people are not carrying Japanese swords on them when/or going out on patrol, nor do they have nicknames like "Grim Reaper", nor do they constantly reference it on internet fora or actually ever reference it at all.

    Is it possible that you're the one in a million hire from the linguist pool? I suppose, on the internet anything can be true. I'm the former Hand of the King! Still, you sure don't act like it.

    Just a note on how unlikely being hired to be a paramilitary CIA Officer from a non-military background is: the role will inevitably involve commanding, on the ground, Special Forces soldiers in combat. This is not a skill one picks up from martial arts lessons. Nor do martial arts lessons hold the respect of those soldiers. This route simply isn’t plausible outside of Hollywood movies. Direct entry regular military officer is already pushing the boundaries of what can work – direct entry super special forces officer is utterly bizarre as a concept.

    Furthermore, looking inconspicuous is important. 6 foot 2″ tall Koreans don’t look inconspicuous in the West Bank, no matter how much make up they put on. Indeed is there anyone who could look less inconspicuous?

  249. @Twinkie

    Is it possible that you’re the one in a million hire from the linguist pool?
     
    I wasn’t taking about me, troll. As I wrote earlier I had prior experiences (mil/investigative) both overseas and States-side. And please stop following me around Unz.com and leaving deranged ad hominem on every comment I make, like some sort of a jilted, psychotic girlfriend.

    Omg! Your comment made reference to me…you’re projecting so hard it I can feel it all the way here in Westeros. Now, Mr Reacher, please stop!

    Look…if you don’t Walt so hard, I won’t call you out on it. I really don’t mind if you Walt softly.

    • Troll: Twinkie
  250. @Twinkie

    don’t do ourselves any favors by denying the chance to vent using mildly un-PC language.
     
    Rewards vs. benefits. What are you gaining and what are you losing by using "mildly un-PC language" that a large majority of the population might find horrendous, not just slightly off-putting? Do you want to vent or do you want to win?

    Also, my study of history (of revolutions) tells me that the kind of people who see their enemies as sub-humans and treat them as such, once in power, inevitably turn their ire toward their erstwhile allies who are not deemed pure enough for their tastes.

    Contrast that to the gentleman-rebels our Founding Fathers were (George Washington kept insisting on us Americans having and utilizing a legitimate European-style standing army to defeat the British even when guerilla warfare might have been easier and possibly more efficacious, and our militias were initially terrible at fighting open battles).

    my study of history (of revolutions) tells me that the kind of people who see their enemies as sub-humans and treat them as such, once in power, inevitably turn their ire toward their erstwhile allies who are not deemed pure enough for their tastes.

    You don’t seem to have looked at much US wartime propaganda from WWII (I haven’t seen enough from WWI to have an opinion).  Dehumanization of the enemy was the order of the day.  Some of my very own ancestors, US citizens for generations, may have been subject to some of that in WWI; I was never told about it, but hints that came down to me suggest that they may have been “interned”.

    Do you want to vent or do you want to win?

    I want my people to break out of the dual trap of other-worship and self-hate so they CAN win.  This is impossible within the left’s sacralizing linguistic, meaning ideological, frame.

    Things are very mild here.  Read Second City Cop for a while, and you’ll see “shitskin”.  Those guys are on the front line of the Africans’ war on civilization, and tell it like it is.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    You don’t seem to have looked at much US wartime propaganda from WWII
     
    Yes, I know all about it as well as the “anti-Hun” propaganda against the Germans in World War I.

    So you don’t distinguish between wars against a foreign foe vs. conflicts against domestic opponents?

    my people
     
    I’m assuming you are a white nationalist and “my people” means only whites. If so, carry on.

    This is impossible within the left’s sacralizing linguistic, meaning ideological, frame.
     
    Using civilized language is... civilized. It’s the left that revels in coarsening civilization.
  251. @Mr. Rational

    my study of history (of revolutions) tells me that the kind of people who see their enemies as sub-humans and treat them as such, once in power, inevitably turn their ire toward their erstwhile allies who are not deemed pure enough for their tastes.
     
    You don't seem to have looked at much US wartime propaganda from WWII (I haven't seen enough from WWI to have an opinion).  Dehumanization of the enemy was the order of the day.  Some of my very own ancestors, US citizens for generations, may have been subject to some of that in WWI; I was never told about it, but hints that came down to me suggest that they may have been "interned".

    Do you want to vent or do you want to win?
     
    I want my people to break out of the dual trap of other-worship and self-hate so they CAN win.  This is impossible within the left's sacralizing linguistic, meaning ideological, frame.

    Things are very mild here.  Read Second City Cop for a while, and you'll see "shitskin".  Those guys are on the front line of the Africans' war on civilization, and tell it like it is.

    You don’t seem to have looked at much US wartime propaganda from WWII

    Yes, I know all about it as well as the “anti-Hun” propaganda against the Germans in World War I.

    So you don’t distinguish between wars against a foreign foe vs. conflicts against domestic opponents?

    my people

    I’m assuming you are a white nationalist and “my people” means only whites. If so, carry on.

    This is impossible within the left’s sacralizing linguistic, meaning ideological, frame.

    Using civilized language is… civilized. It’s the left that revels in coarsening civilization.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational

    Using civilized language is… civilized. It’s the left that revels in coarsening civilization.
     
    The coalition of the fringes which comprises the left in the USA has already declared its intention to enslave and genocide ALL people like me.  I'm afraid that civilized language went out the window some time ago, and they're the ones who threw it.  Now isn't the time for "understanding", it's the time for hardening hearts and doing what must be done to beat them.  Compared to that, "insensitive language" is trivial.  They already call us "Nazis", we cannot pull our punches against that.

    you don’t distinguish between wars against a foreign foe vs. conflicts against domestic opponents?
     
    They are not "opponents".  They are deadly enemies, and being within my country's borders makes them MORE dangerous, not less.
  252. @Twinkie

    Twinkie’s not good at dialogue (interpersonal skills as you say)
     
    I am unfailingly polite to those of good will. If anything, I tend to indulge even those who are not of such good will and try to engage them in a thoughtful, substantive discussion.

    But even I have limits. And sometimes you have to call a jackass what he is. See my comment to "peterAUS" below, where I point out some problems with his "wisdom."

    In any case, I am going to try my darndest to avoid getting sucked into a conversation with what my wife calls "morons on the Internet."

    I am unfailingly polite to those of good will.

    No you are not. I know this for a fact because I am a person of good will except toward my enemies and I don’t count you as an enemy.

    And sometimes you have to call a jackass what he is.

    No you don’t. You can just ignore it.

    In any case, I am going to try my darndest to avoid getting sucked into a conversation with what my wife calls “morons on the Internet.”

    That is very good advice which will be hit or miss for you.

    If I may, a little psycho-dabbling:

    You are extremely constrained by a rigid hierarchal mindset. (This is why you appeal to higher authority when you get into these “discussions.”) And I am not saying that hierarchy is bad or not needed. You are at your best when making open expository comments. You should think twice before making tagged replies. You do not like for those that you consider lower in the hierarchy to question you or disagree with what you have written. If they do, you tend get into these food fights and even pursue them into the comment sections of other blogs. This is not RL and you would benefit by making adjustments to the nature of comment sections and not try to replicate the “ideal” from your personal life here. You don’t consider us as your “equal” and some can’t keep themselves from returning the favor.

    Two personality faults: You couldn’t find humility in the dictionary even with the aid of a pack of excellent seeing-eye dogs. You react like you think comments are Scripture. They are not. You need to relax and see the humor, satire and parody here.

    Learn to make use of the CTI tab.

    Twinkie’s not good at dialogue (interpersonal skills as you say), but I knew that, so I should have stayed out.

    See, we all have faults. I can’t take my own advice either.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    If I may, a little psycho-dabbling:
     
    Et tu?

    he starts diverting the conversation to the experts’ persona, argument style, etc. straight into remote, anonymous, armchair psychological diagnosis
     
  253. @Twinkie

    You don’t seem to have looked at much US wartime propaganda from WWII
     
    Yes, I know all about it as well as the “anti-Hun” propaganda against the Germans in World War I.

    So you don’t distinguish between wars against a foreign foe vs. conflicts against domestic opponents?

    my people
     
    I’m assuming you are a white nationalist and “my people” means only whites. If so, carry on.

    This is impossible within the left’s sacralizing linguistic, meaning ideological, frame.
     
    Using civilized language is... civilized. It’s the left that revels in coarsening civilization.

    Using civilized language is… civilized. It’s the left that revels in coarsening civilization.

    The coalition of the fringes which comprises the left in the USA has already declared its intention to enslave and genocide ALL people like me.  I’m afraid that civilized language went out the window some time ago, and they’re the ones who threw it.  Now isn’t the time for “understanding”, it’s the time for hardening hearts and doing what must be done to beat them.  Compared to that, “insensitive language” is trivial.  They already call us “Nazis”, we cannot pull our punches against that.

    you don’t distinguish between wars against a foreign foe vs. conflicts against domestic opponents?

    They are not “opponents”.  They are deadly enemies, and being within my country’s borders makes them MORE dangerous, not less.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2

    The coalition of the fringes which comprises the left in the USA has already declared its intention to enslave and genocide ALL people like me.
     
    Isn't that perhaps a tad hyperbolic?
    , @Twinkie

    The coalition of the fringes which comprises the left in the USA has already declared its intention to enslave and genocide ALL people like me.
     
    Define, please:

    1. “The coalition of the fringes” and

    2. “All people like me.”
  254. @Mr. Rational

    Using civilized language is… civilized. It’s the left that revels in coarsening civilization.
     
    The coalition of the fringes which comprises the left in the USA has already declared its intention to enslave and genocide ALL people like me.  I'm afraid that civilized language went out the window some time ago, and they're the ones who threw it.  Now isn't the time for "understanding", it's the time for hardening hearts and doing what must be done to beat them.  Compared to that, "insensitive language" is trivial.  They already call us "Nazis", we cannot pull our punches against that.

    you don’t distinguish between wars against a foreign foe vs. conflicts against domestic opponents?
     
    They are not "opponents".  They are deadly enemies, and being within my country's borders makes them MORE dangerous, not less.

    The coalition of the fringes which comprises the left in the USA has already declared its intention to enslave and genocide ALL people like me.

    Isn’t that perhaps a tad hyperbolic?

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    Hyperbolic?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vOtZgOOUHA

    Same sentiment, a little more direct:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIrKtoHYPsE
  255. @Tyrion 2

    The coalition of the fringes which comprises the left in the USA has already declared its intention to enslave and genocide ALL people like me.
     
    Isn't that perhaps a tad hyperbolic?

    Hyperbolic?

    Same sentiment, a little more direct:

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    A minority, radical South African party and one lunatic academic is your evidence? Of what?
  256. @Mr. Rational
    Hyperbolic?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vOtZgOOUHA

    Same sentiment, a little more direct:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIrKtoHYPsE

    A minority, radical South African party and one lunatic academic is your evidence? Of what?

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational

    A minority, radical South African party
     
    The New Black Panther Party was founded in Dallas, Texas, USA.  Its Philadelphia branch carried out the 2008 voter intimidation action there.

    and one lunatic academic
     
    A "lunatic" who speaks his mind without any negative consequences whatsoever from academia.  Compare the fate of cultural conservatives, anti-blank-slatists (e.g. James Watson) and Trump supporters.  Ignatiev's position is firmly within the "progressive" mainstream.

    It strains credulity that you didn't know all this already, so... why are you playing dumb all of a sudden?
  257. @Tyrion 2
    A minority, radical South African party and one lunatic academic is your evidence? Of what?

    A minority, radical South African party

    The New Black Panther Party was founded in Dallas, Texas, USA.  Its Philadelphia branch carried out the 2008 voter intimidation action there.

    and one lunatic academic

    A “lunatic” who speaks his mind without any negative consequences whatsoever from academia.  Compare the fate of cultural conservatives, anti-blank-slatists (e.g. James Watson) and Trump supporters.  Ignatiev’s position is firmly within the “progressive” mainstream.

    It strains credulity that you didn’t know all this already, so… why are you playing dumb all of a sudden?

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    I do know this stuff, but I also know what I look like (about as Aryan as it gets) and I know that I'm not being hunted down on the streets for that.
  258. @iffen
    I am unfailingly polite to those of good will.

    No you are not. I know this for a fact because I am a person of good will except toward my enemies and I don’t count you as an enemy.

    And sometimes you have to call a jackass what he is.

    No you don’t. You can just ignore it.

    In any case, I am going to try my darndest to avoid getting sucked into a conversation with what my wife calls “morons on the Internet.”

    That is very good advice which will be hit or miss for you.

    If I may, a little psycho-dabbling:

    You are extremely constrained by a rigid hierarchal mindset. (This is why you appeal to higher authority when you get into these “discussions.”) And I am not saying that hierarchy is bad or not needed. You are at your best when making open expository comments. You should think twice before making tagged replies. You do not like for those that you consider lower in the hierarchy to question you or disagree with what you have written. If they do, you tend get into these food fights and even pursue them into the comment sections of other blogs. This is not RL and you would benefit by making adjustments to the nature of comment sections and not try to replicate the “ideal” from your personal life here. You don’t consider us as your “equal” and some can’t keep themselves from returning the favor.

    Two personality faults: You couldn’t find humility in the dictionary even with the aid of a pack of excellent seeing-eye dogs. You react like you think comments are Scripture. They are not. You need to relax and see the humor, satire and parody here.

    Learn to make use of the CTI tab.

    Twinkie’s not good at dialogue (interpersonal skills as you say), but I knew that, so I should have stayed out.

    See, we all have faults. I can’t take my own advice either.

    If I may, a little psycho-dabbling:

    Et tu?

    he starts diverting the conversation to the experts’ persona, argument style, etc. straight into remote, anonymous, armchair psychological diagnosis

    • Replies: @iffen
    Water off a duck's back.
  259. @Mr. Rational

    Using civilized language is… civilized. It’s the left that revels in coarsening civilization.
     
    The coalition of the fringes which comprises the left in the USA has already declared its intention to enslave and genocide ALL people like me.  I'm afraid that civilized language went out the window some time ago, and they're the ones who threw it.  Now isn't the time for "understanding", it's the time for hardening hearts and doing what must be done to beat them.  Compared to that, "insensitive language" is trivial.  They already call us "Nazis", we cannot pull our punches against that.

    you don’t distinguish between wars against a foreign foe vs. conflicts against domestic opponents?
     
    They are not "opponents".  They are deadly enemies, and being within my country's borders makes them MORE dangerous, not less.

    The coalition of the fringes which comprises the left in the USA has already declared its intention to enslave and genocide ALL people like me.

    Define, please:

    1. “The coalition of the fringes” and

    2. “All people like me.”

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational

    Define, please:

    1. “The coalition of the fringes”

     
    It's Steve Sailer's term.  It's the fractious and increasingly hostile set of groups which reliably vote left:  Blacks and other racial minorities, the LGBTQ "alphabet people", muslims, illegal immigrants, etc.

    2. “All people like me.”
     
    Heterosexual White males and conventional nuclear families, most of them Christian (which I'm not).  You know, what used to be known as "Americans".
  260. @Talha

    specifically a 3rd world one, which is to spread your religion
     
    I have seen no difference between me and my convert brothers in this regard; they also want to spread Islam among their people. My sister-in-law converted through seeing the changes in my wife, her older sister.

    you are still the tool of the elites’ plan for destruction
     
    The way I see it, Islam is right now the most potent force against many of the elite's plans for destruction.

    yet we do not simply let them carry out their mission.
     
    You can ban the proselytizing of Islam like we do for other religions in Muslim countries. It may or may not have much effect since many converts nowadays find their info on the web.

    This is in fact the moral high ground.
     
    Look, if you consider the equivalent to the Alhambra Decree to be the moral high ground, that is fine with me.

    You recognized that your people made a mistake. Then own up to it and say; OK, we screwed up, we'll own it, we just want separation - let's divvy up the country and go our own way.

    I mean you can of course expel us (including converts) and make every other religion illegal in Canada. Which is fine, but something tells me that's going to be a tough sell since Christians have spent so much time and effort positioning themselves as so much more open and tolerant than Islamic Law. I mean, are you telling me the Shariah actually makes room for living and sharing space with law-abiding non-Muslims (even if it assumes ) and the only solution Christians can come up with is wholesale expulsions of non-criminal Muslim citizens?

    Are the children of 3rd world immigrants *happy* in Canada?
     
    It's probably better if you simply ask them.

    Europeans can either wake up, or go extinct in the near future.
     
    I have zero interest in European extinction. I'd like them to stick around. As I've stated, the converts I know have plenty of kids, the Bosnians I know have the most of any other group in my area. Islam has a fairly good track record in ensuring one's genetic lines will continue.

    When they start pushing non-Canadians into the communities, you will have power over zoning and infrastructure.
     
    Exactly - what counts the most here is the ability to affect things locally since that constitutes your day-to-day business.

    I do appreciate your honesty
     
    No problem.

    rather than 99% of “Canadian” Muslims who spout off the usual tripe about coming here for a better life and wanting to become Canadian.
     
    I don't see what is dishonest about this. If you were to ask me why my parents came here; I would say - because they wanted a better, materially-prosperous life. If you asked me whether I considered myself American or Pakistani; I would say I am American (if I ever visit Pakistan, my relatives remind me of this fact).

    As far as why I stay, well; as my spiritual teachers have taught me, one should not abide in a non-Muslim country (due to the pressures on one's faith) unless one is there to invite people to Islam and be of service to society. "Muh material prosperity" is not worth the risk to one's soul.

    they were always so phony and I felt like they were liars
     
    I don't think most SJW Muslims are phony - I actually think they are very sincere in their misguided ideas.

    But only one of our civilizations can survive, so I will look out for the logical interests of myself and my people.
     
    I personally don't see it as a zero-sum game, but I understand your perspective. No harm, no foul.

    Peace.

    The way I see it, Islam is right now the most potent force against many of the elite’s plans for destruction.

    It’s used to wipe out White, Christian societies. We are the problem, the only societies that are capable of resisting to a New World Order. They don’t care about social conservatism – again, social progressivism is just a tool to destroy the European family. Muslims put up absolutely no resistance to Israel, they are weak fighters, and will submit to whatever ruler, so long as they are allowed to practice their religion freely.

    we’ll own it, we just want separation – let’s divvy up the country and go our own way.

    To divvy up the country is to be defeated. As I said, Islam, and non-Europeans do not belong here. To divvy up the country is to be conquered, which is defeat.

    Which is fine, but something tells me that’s going to be a tough sell since Christians have spent so much time and effort positioning themselves as so much more open and tolerant than Islamic Law.

    I can’t speak for other Christians, but I personally am not too interested in tolerance when a civilization and way of life is at stake. The strong will win, the weak will perish.

    It’s probably better if you simply ask them.

    It was a rhetorical question. They are not happy, because they feel out of place. It is better for them to be repatriated to their historical homelands.

    I personally don’t see it as a zero-sum game, but I understand your perspective. No harm, no foul.

    Perhaps I should have worded it better. We can co-exist SEPARATELY, but never together. Just like segregation in the USA. A Muslim in Pakistan will not bother me in Canada. I’m perfectly happy to let him live his life as he sees fit.

    I don’t think most SJW Muslims are phony – I actually think they are very sincere in their misguided ideas.

    This is always the funniest thing. Non-whites in the 2nd generation often become the biggest SJWs of them all. Then accuse white men of misogyny or sexism or whatever other BS. The irony of them following possibly the whitest ideology is apparently lost on them…

    • Replies: @Talha

    It’s used to wipe out White, Christian societies.
     
    They don't seem too interested in wanting to stick around. Even in the vaunted Visegrad group, they still haven't pulled up their fertility numbers by any significant markers. At this rate Islam will replace a White Christian society with a White Muslim one.

    the only societies that are capable of resisting to a New World Order
     
    Nonsense - you've dropped the ball so hard it's run off the field. Look at all the cities under the old Byzantine Empire, the only ones that don't hold Gay Pride parades are under Muzantium.

    Muslims put up absolutely no resistance to Israel
     
    BS:
    https://i1.wp.com/www.middleeastmonitor.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/palestinian-child-throwing-rock-at-israeli-tank-photo-by-musa-AL-SHAER-e1481141346313.jpg

    Hezbollah stopped Israel dead in its tracks in 2006 despite them having complete air superiority.

    they are weak fighters
     
    LOL! That's why the Afghans will eventually be in charge of Afghanistan once again, having sent back another invading army?
    "I cannot endorse the politics of the Taliban. If one of them told me that my daughter couldn’t go to school, one of us would leave the room on a stretcher. Yet as fighting men, are they not magnificent? They have only rifles, explosives, RPGs, and balls. Their enemies have unlimited air support, helicopters, armor, artillery, sophisticated communications, night-vision gear, good food and excellent medical care. The Taliban take heavy casualties, their enemies almost none. The ragheads do not even have PX privileges. Yet they have not been defeated. A fight on even terms would last perhaps five minutes."
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2009/07/fred-reed/is-military-service-honorable/

    "This, however, was an exception. Many of the less fortunate mujahedin in other parts of the war zone were so poor they didn't even possess coats or shoes. Against the stabbing cold of the Afghan mountains they had only thin wool shawls. The mujahedin would walk to battle barefoot, through deep snow, sometimes for two days and nights, carrying 90 pounds (40kg) of mortar shells or rockets on their backs. Then they would traudge home, dodging inevitable counterattacks by Communist artillery, or the far more fearsom Hind helicopter gunships, which hunted the mujahedin across the open plains of Afghanista, where the only cover was an occasional boulder or gully."
    War at the Top of the World: The Struggle for Afghanistan, Kashmir and Tibet

    Do you know how many invading Russians the Chechens killed in the two wars and how badly destroyed their cities were before Russia had to finally figure out a way to get cooperation from local Chechen faction to solve the problem? Do you know the population difference between Russia and Chechnya? Compare that to how easily the US took over Panama.

    and will submit to whatever ruler
     
    Wait - that's different than the West how exactly? I mean you guys don't like your rulers, and you at least have the mechanisms to kick them out of their seats. When we try to remove them, it ends up with rulers sending in the army to gun down protestors in the streets:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A_PUlkPnVg
    Are you serious in comparing the situations? I mean, nothing that has happened to the Yellow Vest even comes close to this.

    so long as they are allowed to practice their religion freely
     
    Well, that is a pretty big deal.

    To divvy up the country is to be conquered, which is defeat.
     
    OK - so I guess any compromise is out. That's fine.

    The strong will win, the weak will perish.
     
    OK - this confirms my earlier point...Darwinian Christianity. That's OK - so many Christian denominations have already been so highly influenced by modern ideologies, I can't possibly expect this one not to have crept in.

    Question though; what do you do with your native converts? I was just having an online chat with a convert today who was alt-Right. We were discussing these very concerns; stopping mass immigration, his desire to preserve his people, etc.

    They are not happy, because they feel out of place.
     
    Look, I accept your opinion on it if you want to accept my opinion on how I think White people feel.

    We can co-exist SEPARATELY, but never together.
     
    Goes back to my earlier point about Shariah being more tolerant than what you are proposing. That's not unexpected. This is generally how medieval Christianity operated, so it's not exactly unprecedented. I'm assuming Jews and atheists can stick around, correct?

    Non-whites in the 2nd generation often become the biggest SJWs of them all.
     
    Agreed...well, if they think virtue-signalling is more important than having families and kids, then they won't be around too long. They are kind of shooting themselves in the foot.

    Peace.
  261. @Twinkie

    If I may, a little psycho-dabbling:
     
    Et tu?

    he starts diverting the conversation to the experts’ persona, argument style, etc. straight into remote, anonymous, armchair psychological diagnosis
     

    Water off a duck’s back.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    Not meant to harm, but elucidate. People here don’t know that you and I had words on Razib Khan’s and Steven Sailer’s over you persistently bringing up race wars. Notwithstanding your protestations to the contrary, you not considering me an “enemy” is not the same thing as being of good will.

    Since you gave me at least one suggestion, I’ll give you one as well. Stop fixating on personalities, debate techniques, imagined psychological makeup, etc. and stick to substances of the arguments. That will reveal all that needs to be revealed.
  262. @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    The way I see it, Islam is right now the most potent force against many of the elite’s plans for destruction.
     
    It's used to wipe out White, Christian societies. We are the problem, the only societies that are capable of resisting to a New World Order. They don't care about social conservatism - again, social progressivism is just a tool to destroy the European family. Muslims put up absolutely no resistance to Israel, they are weak fighters, and will submit to whatever ruler, so long as they are allowed to practice their religion freely.

    we’ll own it, we just want separation – let’s divvy up the country and go our own way.
     
    To divvy up the country is to be defeated. As I said, Islam, and non-Europeans do not belong here. To divvy up the country is to be conquered, which is defeat.

    Which is fine, but something tells me that’s going to be a tough sell since Christians have spent so much time and effort positioning themselves as so much more open and tolerant than Islamic Law.
     
    I can't speak for other Christians, but I personally am not too interested in tolerance when a civilization and way of life is at stake. The strong will win, the weak will perish.

    It’s probably better if you simply ask them.

     

    It was a rhetorical question. They are not happy, because they feel out of place. It is better for them to be repatriated to their historical homelands.

    I personally don’t see it as a zero-sum game, but I understand your perspective. No harm, no foul.
     
    Perhaps I should have worded it better. We can co-exist SEPARATELY, but never together. Just like segregation in the USA. A Muslim in Pakistan will not bother me in Canada. I'm perfectly happy to let him live his life as he sees fit.

    I don’t think most SJW Muslims are phony – I actually think they are very sincere in their misguided ideas.
     
    This is always the funniest thing. Non-whites in the 2nd generation often become the biggest SJWs of them all. Then accuse white men of misogyny or sexism or whatever other BS. The irony of them following possibly the whitest ideology is apparently lost on them...

    It’s used to wipe out White, Christian societies.

    They don’t seem too interested in wanting to stick around. Even in the vaunted Visegrad group, they still haven’t pulled up their fertility numbers by any significant markers. At this rate Islam will replace a White Christian society with a White Muslim one.

    the only societies that are capable of resisting to a New World Order

    Nonsense – you’ve dropped the ball so hard it’s run off the field. Look at all the cities under the old Byzantine Empire, the only ones that don’t hold Gay Pride parades are under Muzantium.

    Muslims put up absolutely no resistance to Israel

    BS:

    Hezbollah stopped Israel dead in its tracks in 2006 despite them having complete air superiority.

    they are weak fighters

    LOL! That’s why the Afghans will eventually be in charge of Afghanistan once again, having sent back another invading army?
    “I cannot endorse the politics of the Taliban. If one of them told me that my daughter couldn’t go to school, one of us would leave the room on a stretcher. Yet as fighting men, are they not magnificent? They have only rifles, explosives, RPGs, and balls. Their enemies have unlimited air support, helicopters, armor, artillery, sophisticated communications, night-vision gear, good food and excellent medical care. The Taliban take heavy casualties, their enemies almost none. The ragheads do not even have PX privileges. Yet they have not been defeated. A fight on even terms would last perhaps five minutes.”
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2009/07/fred-reed/is-military-service-honorable/

    “This, however, was an exception. Many of the less fortunate mujahedin in other parts of the war zone were so poor they didn’t even possess coats or shoes. Against the stabbing cold of the Afghan mountains they had only thin wool shawls. The mujahedin would walk to battle barefoot, through deep snow, sometimes for two days and nights, carrying 90 pounds (40kg) of mortar shells or rockets on their backs. Then they would traudge home, dodging inevitable counterattacks by Communist artillery, or the far more fearsom Hind helicopter gunships, which hunted the mujahedin across the open plains of Afghanista, where the only cover was an occasional boulder or gully.”
    War at the Top of the World: The Struggle for Afghanistan, Kashmir and Tibet

    Do you know how many invading Russians the Chechens killed in the two wars and how badly destroyed their cities were before Russia had to finally figure out a way to get cooperation from local Chechen faction to solve the problem? Do you know the population difference between Russia and Chechnya? Compare that to how easily the US took over Panama.

    and will submit to whatever ruler

    Wait – that’s different than the West how exactly? I mean you guys don’t like your rulers, and you at least have the mechanisms to kick them out of their seats. When we try to remove them, it ends up with rulers sending in the army to gun down protestors in the streets:

    Are you serious in comparing the situations? I mean, nothing that has happened to the Yellow Vest even comes close to this.

    so long as they are allowed to practice their religion freely

    Well, that is a pretty big deal.

    To divvy up the country is to be conquered, which is defeat.

    OK – so I guess any compromise is out. That’s fine.

    The strong will win, the weak will perish.

    OK – this confirms my earlier point…Darwinian Christianity. That’s OK – so many Christian denominations have already been so highly influenced by modern ideologies, I can’t possibly expect this one not to have crept in.

    Question though; what do you do with your native converts? I was just having an online chat with a convert today who was alt-Right. We were discussing these very concerns; stopping mass immigration, his desire to preserve his people, etc.

    They are not happy, because they feel out of place.

    Look, I accept your opinion on it if you want to accept my opinion on how I think White people feel.

    We can co-exist SEPARATELY, but never together.

    Goes back to my earlier point about Shariah being more tolerant than what you are proposing. That’s not unexpected. This is generally how medieval Christianity operated, so it’s not exactly unprecedented. I’m assuming Jews and atheists can stick around, correct?

    Non-whites in the 2nd generation often become the biggest SJWs of them all.

    Agreed…well, if they think virtue-signalling is more important than having families and kids, then they won’t be around too long. They are kind of shooting themselves in the foot.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    They don’t seem too interested in wanting to stick around. Even in the vaunted Visegrad group, they still haven’t pulled up their fertility numbers by any significant markers. At this rate Islam will replace a White Christian society with a White Muslim one.
     
    This is a problem, but that's why I'm here discussing solutions. I refer to this many times if you look through my post history. I do disagree with the claim that V4 hasn't improved its fertility substantially. Czechia is the greatest performer, going from a low of 1.13 in 1999 to 1.7 (and rising) in 2018. The bloc is improving, but as with all things, a demographic recovery will take time.

    This is precisely why Muslims are such a threat, though. A low-fertility European country without immigration has time to plan and overcome some challenges. I do not believe a population decline is necessarily a bad thing, in the short term. A low-fertility country full of Muslims however is a dangerous recipe for disaster (GERMANY), which has the double-whammy of Muslim takeover plus Native decline. Far less hope in the latter.

    Wait – that’s different than the West how exactly? I mean you guys don’t like your rulers, and you at least have the mechanisms to kick them out of their seats. When we try to remove them, it ends up with rulers sending in the army to gun down protestors in the streets:
     
    You won't find any disagreement with me that Western rulers are fucked. I stated earlier that I don't care what a Pakistani does within his own borders.

    The White Working Class is the group that will fight for wages, fight for fairness, etc. is what I'm getting at. Muslim imports (and all subcontinentals) work at low wages with no unionization - a perfect tool for the elites to exploit. They do what the neo-liberals tell them, like sheep. In our countries anyways.

    OK – this confirms my earlier point…Darwinian Christianity.
     
    I just see that as a law of nature. Within a group, the weak can be taken care of. But between the groups, the stronger one will gain the upper hand. It's unfortunate but I just see that as a law of nature.

    Question though; what do you do with your native converts? I was just having an online chat with a convert today who was alt-Right. We were discussing these very concerns; stopping mass immigration, his desire to preserve his people, etc.

     

    I suppose they would have the option of converting from Islam, or being repatriated to their Muslim country of choice. I'm sure the white convert would have no reason to not want to leave for Pakistan... But, why did he think that converting to Islam would solve any of those problems?

    Look, I accept your opinion on it if you want to accept my opinion on how I think White people feel.
     
    I'm all ears. I've always maintained that Muslims and other non-whites in Toronto feel very out of place, so they "ape" the black culture, and become a mixture of fuckboys and hood rats. Again, this is from observation, not bigotry. I've also spoken to mixed-race individuals, who again feel as if they do not belong to Canada or to their home country.

    Goes back to my earlier point about Shariah being more tolerant than what you are proposing.
     
    I'm quite tolerant, even agreeable when we the lines between us are clearly divided. Good fences make good neighbours. I have no interest in living otherwise.

    I’m assuming Jews and atheists can stick around, correct?
     
    Jews won't be sticking around in the West much longer. The more Muslims coming here, the more attractive Israel is going to look... I don't think Jews need to be expelled, but they need to have close tabs kept on them. The WASP/American experiment of total equality with Jews has gone quite badly, we see the results today.

    As for atheism, I don't see that as negative, as long as they have the right values. Atheists can be quite useful in terms of scientific development and innovation. But again, they would not be taught atheist-Jewish-leftist propaganda in schools, they would be instilled with proper values.

    Agreed…well, if they think virtue-signalling is more important than having families and kids, then they won’t be around too long. They are kind of shooting themselves in the foot.
     
    I fully support the SJW indoctrination of minorities. Not only does it prevent inter-racial marriages as they learn to hate whites, it also keeps their birth rate down. On the topic of Darwinian thinking - progressivism is a deeply flawed view, that will eventually die out. See the data I compiled of TFR by county in Ontario:



    https://i.imgur.com/Sxt95x9.jpg
  263. @Twinkie

    The coalition of the fringes which comprises the left in the USA has already declared its intention to enslave and genocide ALL people like me.
     
    Define, please:

    1. “The coalition of the fringes” and

    2. “All people like me.”

    Define, please:

    1. “The coalition of the fringes”

    It’s Steve Sailer’s term.  It’s the fractious and increasingly hostile set of groups which reliably vote left:  Blacks and other racial minorities, the LGBTQ “alphabet people”, muslims, illegal immigrants, etc.

    2. “All people like me.”

    Heterosexual White males and conventional nuclear families, most of them Christian (which I’m not).  You know, what used to be known as “Americans”.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Blacks and other racial minorities, the LGBTQ “alphabet people”, muslims, illegal immigrants, etc.
     
    You think most such people want to “enslave/genocide” you?

    Heterosexual White males and conventional nuclear families, most of them Christian (which I’m not). You know, what used to be known as “Americans”.
     
    Am I an American? I’m ethnically East Asian, and I was Naturalized.
  264. @iffen
    Water off a duck's back.

    Not meant to harm, but elucidate. People here don’t know that you and I had words on Razib Khan’s and Steven Sailer’s over you persistently bringing up race wars. Notwithstanding your protestations to the contrary, you not considering me an “enemy” is not the same thing as being of good will.

    Since you gave me at least one suggestion, I’ll give you one as well. Stop fixating on personalities, debate techniques, imagined psychological makeup, etc. and stick to substances of the arguments. That will reveal all that needs to be revealed.

    • Replies: @iffen
    you persistently bringing up race wars.

    This is factually incorrect, but I don't care. The "words" primarily stemmed from your bizzare insistence that I'm a WN, but again, I don't care. Certainly the WNs here know that I am not one of them.

    is not the same thing as being of good will.

    I know myself on this subject. What you think of me on the subject doesn't bother me that much.

  265. @Mr. Rational

    Define, please:

    1. “The coalition of the fringes”

     
    It's Steve Sailer's term.  It's the fractious and increasingly hostile set of groups which reliably vote left:  Blacks and other racial minorities, the LGBTQ "alphabet people", muslims, illegal immigrants, etc.

    2. “All people like me.”
     
    Heterosexual White males and conventional nuclear families, most of them Christian (which I'm not).  You know, what used to be known as "Americans".

    Blacks and other racial minorities, the LGBTQ “alphabet people”, muslims, illegal immigrants, etc.

    You think most such people want to “enslave/genocide” you?

    Heterosexual White males and conventional nuclear families, most of them Christian (which I’m not). You know, what used to be known as “Americans”.

    Am I an American? I’m ethnically East Asian, and I was Naturalized.

  266. @Mr. Rational

    A minority, radical South African party
     
    The New Black Panther Party was founded in Dallas, Texas, USA.  Its Philadelphia branch carried out the 2008 voter intimidation action there.

    and one lunatic academic
     
    A "lunatic" who speaks his mind without any negative consequences whatsoever from academia.  Compare the fate of cultural conservatives, anti-blank-slatists (e.g. James Watson) and Trump supporters.  Ignatiev's position is firmly within the "progressive" mainstream.

    It strains credulity that you didn't know all this already, so... why are you playing dumb all of a sudden?

    I do know this stuff, but I also know what I look like (about as Aryan as it gets) and I know that I’m not being hunted down on the streets for that.

  267. @Twinkie
    Not meant to harm, but elucidate. People here don’t know that you and I had words on Razib Khan’s and Steven Sailer’s over you persistently bringing up race wars. Notwithstanding your protestations to the contrary, you not considering me an “enemy” is not the same thing as being of good will.

    Since you gave me at least one suggestion, I’ll give you one as well. Stop fixating on personalities, debate techniques, imagined psychological makeup, etc. and stick to substances of the arguments. That will reveal all that needs to be revealed.

    you persistently bringing up race wars.

    This is factually incorrect, but I don’t care. The “words” primarily stemmed from your bizzare insistence that I’m a WN, but again, I don’t care. Certainly the WNs here know that I am not one of them.

    is not the same thing as being of good will.

    I know myself on this subject. What you think of me on the subject doesn’t bother me that much.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    The “words” primarily stemmed from your bizzare insistence that I’m a WN, but again, I don’t care. Certainly the WNs here know that I am not one of them.
     
    I don’t know if you are WN, but I suspected so at the time, because you kept fixating on race wars (and I wrote that most people who fixate on race wars are frequently those who want it to happen and are usually WN).

    The point in digging up that ancient history was to point out that you are not exactly an unbiased observer regarding me. So your ever-so good-willed amateur psych evaluation should be taken with a pinch of salt, eh?
    , @Twinkie

    I know myself on this subject. What you think of me on the subject doesn’t bother me that much.
     
    This is not about “bothering” you like some sort of a vendetta though you keep twisting it that way. This is to provide context so others can judge for themselves.

    And despite your apparent lack of good will (something about humility and dogs), I don’t mean you any harm. But if you are going to engage me in a conversation, I ask you to stick to the substances of the arguments, and not resort to debate-by-psych-evaluation. THAT would show me that you are not malicious.
  268. @iffen
    you persistently bringing up race wars.

    This is factually incorrect, but I don't care. The "words" primarily stemmed from your bizzare insistence that I'm a WN, but again, I don't care. Certainly the WNs here know that I am not one of them.

    is not the same thing as being of good will.

    I know myself on this subject. What you think of me on the subject doesn't bother me that much.

    The “words” primarily stemmed from your bizzare insistence that I’m a WN, but again, I don’t care. Certainly the WNs here know that I am not one of them.

    I don’t know if you are WN, but I suspected so at the time, because you kept fixating on race wars (and I wrote that most people who fixate on race wars are frequently those who want it to happen and are usually WN).

    The point in digging up that ancient history was to point out that you are not exactly an unbiased observer regarding me. So your ever-so good-willed amateur psych evaluation should be taken with a pinch of salt, eh?

    • Replies: @iffen
    because you kept fixating on race wars

    This is factually incorrect. I challenge you to prove otherwise.

    This is to provide context so others can judge for themselves.

    And despite your apparent lack of good will


    I was using good will as in making good faith argument and dialogue. Apparently it means something else for you.

    THAT would show me that you are not malicious.


    I've tried before and now here. I can live with your misconceptions.


    You can't argue and dialogue you seem to only read from a script.

  269. @iffen
    you persistently bringing up race wars.

    This is factually incorrect, but I don't care. The "words" primarily stemmed from your bizzare insistence that I'm a WN, but again, I don't care. Certainly the WNs here know that I am not one of them.

    is not the same thing as being of good will.

    I know myself on this subject. What you think of me on the subject doesn't bother me that much.

    I know myself on this subject. What you think of me on the subject doesn’t bother me that much.

    This is not about “bothering” you like some sort of a vendetta though you keep twisting it that way. This is to provide context so others can judge for themselves.

    And despite your apparent lack of good will (something about humility and dogs), I don’t mean you any harm. But if you are going to engage me in a conversation, I ask you to stick to the substances of the arguments, and not resort to debate-by-psych-evaluation. THAT would show me that you are not malicious.

  270. @Talha

    It’s used to wipe out White, Christian societies.
     
    They don't seem too interested in wanting to stick around. Even in the vaunted Visegrad group, they still haven't pulled up their fertility numbers by any significant markers. At this rate Islam will replace a White Christian society with a White Muslim one.

    the only societies that are capable of resisting to a New World Order
     
    Nonsense - you've dropped the ball so hard it's run off the field. Look at all the cities under the old Byzantine Empire, the only ones that don't hold Gay Pride parades are under Muzantium.

    Muslims put up absolutely no resistance to Israel
     
    BS:
    https://i1.wp.com/www.middleeastmonitor.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/palestinian-child-throwing-rock-at-israeli-tank-photo-by-musa-AL-SHAER-e1481141346313.jpg

    Hezbollah stopped Israel dead in its tracks in 2006 despite them having complete air superiority.

    they are weak fighters
     
    LOL! That's why the Afghans will eventually be in charge of Afghanistan once again, having sent back another invading army?
    "I cannot endorse the politics of the Taliban. If one of them told me that my daughter couldn’t go to school, one of us would leave the room on a stretcher. Yet as fighting men, are they not magnificent? They have only rifles, explosives, RPGs, and balls. Their enemies have unlimited air support, helicopters, armor, artillery, sophisticated communications, night-vision gear, good food and excellent medical care. The Taliban take heavy casualties, their enemies almost none. The ragheads do not even have PX privileges. Yet they have not been defeated. A fight on even terms would last perhaps five minutes."
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2009/07/fred-reed/is-military-service-honorable/

    "This, however, was an exception. Many of the less fortunate mujahedin in other parts of the war zone were so poor they didn't even possess coats or shoes. Against the stabbing cold of the Afghan mountains they had only thin wool shawls. The mujahedin would walk to battle barefoot, through deep snow, sometimes for two days and nights, carrying 90 pounds (40kg) of mortar shells or rockets on their backs. Then they would traudge home, dodging inevitable counterattacks by Communist artillery, or the far more fearsom Hind helicopter gunships, which hunted the mujahedin across the open plains of Afghanista, where the only cover was an occasional boulder or gully."
    War at the Top of the World: The Struggle for Afghanistan, Kashmir and Tibet

    Do you know how many invading Russians the Chechens killed in the two wars and how badly destroyed their cities were before Russia had to finally figure out a way to get cooperation from local Chechen faction to solve the problem? Do you know the population difference between Russia and Chechnya? Compare that to how easily the US took over Panama.

    and will submit to whatever ruler
     
    Wait - that's different than the West how exactly? I mean you guys don't like your rulers, and you at least have the mechanisms to kick them out of their seats. When we try to remove them, it ends up with rulers sending in the army to gun down protestors in the streets:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A_PUlkPnVg
    Are you serious in comparing the situations? I mean, nothing that has happened to the Yellow Vest even comes close to this.

    so long as they are allowed to practice their religion freely
     
    Well, that is a pretty big deal.

    To divvy up the country is to be conquered, which is defeat.
     
    OK - so I guess any compromise is out. That's fine.

    The strong will win, the weak will perish.
     
    OK - this confirms my earlier point...Darwinian Christianity. That's OK - so many Christian denominations have already been so highly influenced by modern ideologies, I can't possibly expect this one not to have crept in.

    Question though; what do you do with your native converts? I was just having an online chat with a convert today who was alt-Right. We were discussing these very concerns; stopping mass immigration, his desire to preserve his people, etc.

    They are not happy, because they feel out of place.
     
    Look, I accept your opinion on it if you want to accept my opinion on how I think White people feel.

    We can co-exist SEPARATELY, but never together.
     
    Goes back to my earlier point about Shariah being more tolerant than what you are proposing. That's not unexpected. This is generally how medieval Christianity operated, so it's not exactly unprecedented. I'm assuming Jews and atheists can stick around, correct?

    Non-whites in the 2nd generation often become the biggest SJWs of them all.
     
    Agreed...well, if they think virtue-signalling is more important than having families and kids, then they won't be around too long. They are kind of shooting themselves in the foot.

    Peace.

    They don’t seem too interested in wanting to stick around. Even in the vaunted Visegrad group, they still haven’t pulled up their fertility numbers by any significant markers. At this rate Islam will replace a White Christian society with a White Muslim one.

    This is a problem, but that’s why I’m here discussing solutions. I refer to this many times if you look through my post history. I do disagree with the claim that V4 hasn’t improved its fertility substantially. Czechia is the greatest performer, going from a low of 1.13 in 1999 to 1.7 (and rising) in 2018. The bloc is improving, but as with all things, a demographic recovery will take time.

    This is precisely why Muslims are such a threat, though. A low-fertility European country without immigration has time to plan and overcome some challenges. I do not believe a population decline is necessarily a bad thing, in the short term. A low-fertility country full of Muslims however is a dangerous recipe for disaster (GERMANY), which has the double-whammy of Muslim takeover plus Native decline. Far less hope in the latter.

    Wait – that’s different than the West how exactly? I mean you guys don’t like your rulers, and you at least have the mechanisms to kick them out of their seats. When we try to remove them, it ends up with rulers sending in the army to gun down protestors in the streets:

    You won’t find any disagreement with me that Western rulers are fucked. I stated earlier that I don’t care what a Pakistani does within his own borders.

    The White Working Class is the group that will fight for wages, fight for fairness, etc. is what I’m getting at. Muslim imports (and all subcontinentals) work at low wages with no unionization – a perfect tool for the elites to exploit. They do what the neo-liberals tell them, like sheep. In our countries anyways.

    OK – this confirms my earlier point…Darwinian Christianity.

    I just see that as a law of nature. Within a group, the weak can be taken care of. But between the groups, the stronger one will gain the upper hand. It’s unfortunate but I just see that as a law of nature.

    Question though; what do you do with your native converts? I was just having an online chat with a convert today who was alt-Right. We were discussing these very concerns; stopping mass immigration, his desire to preserve his people, etc.

    I suppose they would have the option of converting from Islam, or being repatriated to their Muslim country of choice. I’m sure the white convert would have no reason to not want to leave for Pakistan… But, why did he think that converting to Islam would solve any of those problems?

    Look, I accept your opinion on it if you want to accept my opinion on how I think White people feel.

    I’m all ears. I’ve always maintained that Muslims and other non-whites in Toronto feel very out of place, so they “ape” the black culture, and become a mixture of fuckboys and hood rats. Again, this is from observation, not bigotry. I’ve also spoken to mixed-race individuals, who again feel as if they do not belong to Canada or to their home country.

    Goes back to my earlier point about Shariah being more tolerant than what you are proposing.

    I’m quite tolerant, even agreeable when we the lines between us are clearly divided. Good fences make good neighbours. I have no interest in living otherwise.

    I’m assuming Jews and atheists can stick around, correct?

    Jews won’t be sticking around in the West much longer. The more Muslims coming here, the more attractive Israel is going to look… I don’t think Jews need to be expelled, but they need to have close tabs kept on them. The WASP/American experiment of total equality with Jews has gone quite badly, we see the results today.

    As for atheism, I don’t see that as negative, as long as they have the right values. Atheists can be quite useful in terms of scientific development and innovation. But again, they would not be taught atheist-Jewish-leftist propaganda in schools, they would be instilled with proper values.

    Agreed…well, if they think virtue-signalling is more important than having families and kids, then they won’t be around too long. They are kind of shooting themselves in the foot.

    I fully support the SJW indoctrination of minorities. Not only does it prevent inter-racial marriages as they learn to hate whites, it also keeps their birth rate down. On the topic of Darwinian thinking – progressivism is a deeply flawed view, that will eventually die out. See the data I compiled of TFR by county in Ontario:

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Talha

    A low-fertility country full of Muslims however is a dangerous recipe for disaster (GERMANY), which has the double-whammy of Muslim takeover plus Native decline.
     
    You are still seeing Muslim through the lens of an ethnicity. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that if more Germans convert to Islam and external immigration is cut off, they will be the ones creating the native resurgence.

    The White Working Class
     
    Your in-group keeps shrinking.

    Muslim imports (and all subcontinentals) work at low wages with no unionization
     
    I'm not talking about Muslim imports. As I said, I'm not in favor of more immigration - you are arguing a point to the wrong person here.

    They do what the neo-liberals tell them, like sheep.
     
    I'd actually like to see some evidence that Muslims actually oppose the concept of unionization. I can understand why importing more people (Muslim or not) will depress wages and hurt locals, which is why I'm not a fan.

    I suppose they would have the option of converting from Islam, or being repatriated to their Muslim country of choice.
     
    OK, so White atheists are good, but White Muslims are no longer considered White enough - this is getting very interesting. OK, what about immigrant Muslims that apostate to Christianity to be able to stick around?

    But, why did he think that converting to Islam would solve any of those problems?
     
    I have met a bunch of converts for whom converting to Islam solved a bunch of problems. Fixed up their lives.

    I’m all ears.
     
    To be honest, the vast majority of Whites I've come across - even traditional minded ones that have religious values simply don't think along the lines you are proposing - this is from observation.

    become a mixture of fuckboys and hood rats.
     
    Yup, there are plenty of those types of Muslims. I tend to call them "ethnic Muslims"; that is why they are so messed up - their identity is cultural and based on a thin veneer of religion. That's why they get so screwed up, they aren't grounded and are looking for identity and acceptance. Traditional Muslims like myself don't have that problem since we don't have an inferiority complex.

    Good fences make good neighbours.
     
    Agreed. I simply don't see why this can't be done within a nation, but that's OK.

    The WASP/American experiment of total equality with Jews has gone quite badly, we see the results today.
     
    Ah, but they get virtue-signalling points over Islam...that must count for something.

    As for atheism, I don’t see that as negative, as long as they have the right values.
     
    That is a very interesting sentence right there. Very interesting. If you don't mind me asking; when you say you are a Christian - do you mean that in a cultural sense or a serious and deliberate doctrinal sense; like you believe a God incarnated Himself in the body of a 1st century Jewish man in Roman-governed Palestine and died for your sins? Or are you more from the atavistic position of; well, I don't really believe in it, but our forefathers used to do this, so...

    I fully support the SJW indoctrination of minorities.
     
    Very interesting; Christians used to be concerned about converting them to their own faith to save their souls at one point in history. Times change, I guess. Maybe they've thrown in the towel on that.

    progressivism is a deeply flawed view, that will eventually die out.
     
    Agreed. Just wondering how many it'll take down with the ship...

    Peace.
  271. @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    They don’t seem too interested in wanting to stick around. Even in the vaunted Visegrad group, they still haven’t pulled up their fertility numbers by any significant markers. At this rate Islam will replace a White Christian society with a White Muslim one.
     
    This is a problem, but that's why I'm here discussing solutions. I refer to this many times if you look through my post history. I do disagree with the claim that V4 hasn't improved its fertility substantially. Czechia is the greatest performer, going from a low of 1.13 in 1999 to 1.7 (and rising) in 2018. The bloc is improving, but as with all things, a demographic recovery will take time.

    This is precisely why Muslims are such a threat, though. A low-fertility European country without immigration has time to plan and overcome some challenges. I do not believe a population decline is necessarily a bad thing, in the short term. A low-fertility country full of Muslims however is a dangerous recipe for disaster (GERMANY), which has the double-whammy of Muslim takeover plus Native decline. Far less hope in the latter.

    Wait – that’s different than the West how exactly? I mean you guys don’t like your rulers, and you at least have the mechanisms to kick them out of their seats. When we try to remove them, it ends up with rulers sending in the army to gun down protestors in the streets:
     
    You won't find any disagreement with me that Western rulers are fucked. I stated earlier that I don't care what a Pakistani does within his own borders.

    The White Working Class is the group that will fight for wages, fight for fairness, etc. is what I'm getting at. Muslim imports (and all subcontinentals) work at low wages with no unionization - a perfect tool for the elites to exploit. They do what the neo-liberals tell them, like sheep. In our countries anyways.

    OK – this confirms my earlier point…Darwinian Christianity.
     
    I just see that as a law of nature. Within a group, the weak can be taken care of. But between the groups, the stronger one will gain the upper hand. It's unfortunate but I just see that as a law of nature.

    Question though; what do you do with your native converts? I was just having an online chat with a convert today who was alt-Right. We were discussing these very concerns; stopping mass immigration, his desire to preserve his people, etc.

     

    I suppose they would have the option of converting from Islam, or being repatriated to their Muslim country of choice. I'm sure the white convert would have no reason to not want to leave for Pakistan... But, why did he think that converting to Islam would solve any of those problems?

    Look, I accept your opinion on it if you want to accept my opinion on how I think White people feel.
     
    I'm all ears. I've always maintained that Muslims and other non-whites in Toronto feel very out of place, so they "ape" the black culture, and become a mixture of fuckboys and hood rats. Again, this is from observation, not bigotry. I've also spoken to mixed-race individuals, who again feel as if they do not belong to Canada or to their home country.

    Goes back to my earlier point about Shariah being more tolerant than what you are proposing.
     
    I'm quite tolerant, even agreeable when we the lines between us are clearly divided. Good fences make good neighbours. I have no interest in living otherwise.

    I’m assuming Jews and atheists can stick around, correct?
     
    Jews won't be sticking around in the West much longer. The more Muslims coming here, the more attractive Israel is going to look... I don't think Jews need to be expelled, but they need to have close tabs kept on them. The WASP/American experiment of total equality with Jews has gone quite badly, we see the results today.

    As for atheism, I don't see that as negative, as long as they have the right values. Atheists can be quite useful in terms of scientific development and innovation. But again, they would not be taught atheist-Jewish-leftist propaganda in schools, they would be instilled with proper values.

    Agreed…well, if they think virtue-signalling is more important than having families and kids, then they won’t be around too long. They are kind of shooting themselves in the foot.
     
    I fully support the SJW indoctrination of minorities. Not only does it prevent inter-racial marriages as they learn to hate whites, it also keeps their birth rate down. On the topic of Darwinian thinking - progressivism is a deeply flawed view, that will eventually die out. See the data I compiled of TFR by county in Ontario:



    https://i.imgur.com/Sxt95x9.jpg

    A low-fertility country full of Muslims however is a dangerous recipe for disaster (GERMANY), which has the double-whammy of Muslim takeover plus Native decline.

    You are still seeing Muslim through the lens of an ethnicity. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that if more Germans convert to Islam and external immigration is cut off, they will be the ones creating the native resurgence.

    The White Working Class

    Your in-group keeps shrinking.

    Muslim imports (and all subcontinentals) work at low wages with no unionization

    I’m not talking about Muslim imports. As I said, I’m not in favor of more immigration – you are arguing a point to the wrong person here.

    They do what the neo-liberals tell them, like sheep.

    I’d actually like to see some evidence that Muslims actually oppose the concept of unionization. I can understand why importing more people (Muslim or not) will depress wages and hurt locals, which is why I’m not a fan.

    I suppose they would have the option of converting from Islam, or being repatriated to their Muslim country of choice.

    OK, so White atheists are good, but White Muslims are no longer considered White enough – this is getting very interesting. OK, what about immigrant Muslims that apostate to Christianity to be able to stick around?

    But, why did he think that converting to Islam would solve any of those problems?

    I have met a bunch of converts for whom converting to Islam solved a bunch of problems. Fixed up their lives.

    I’m all ears.

    To be honest, the vast majority of Whites I’ve come across – even traditional minded ones that have religious values simply don’t think along the lines you are proposing – this is from observation.

    become a mixture of fuckboys and hood rats.

    Yup, there are plenty of those types of Muslims. I tend to call them “ethnic Muslims”; that is why they are so messed up – their identity is cultural and based on a thin veneer of religion. That’s why they get so screwed up, they aren’t grounded and are looking for identity and acceptance. Traditional Muslims like myself don’t have that problem since we don’t have an inferiority complex.

    Good fences make good neighbours.

    Agreed. I simply don’t see why this can’t be done within a nation, but that’s OK.

    The WASP/American experiment of total equality with Jews has gone quite badly, we see the results today.

    Ah, but they get virtue-signalling points over Islam…that must count for something.

    As for atheism, I don’t see that as negative, as long as they have the right values.

    That is a very interesting sentence right there. Very interesting. If you don’t mind me asking; when you say you are a Christian – do you mean that in a cultural sense or a serious and deliberate doctrinal sense; like you believe a God incarnated Himself in the body of a 1st century Jewish man in Roman-governed Palestine and died for your sins? Or are you more from the atavistic position of; well, I don’t really believe in it, but our forefathers used to do this, so…

    I fully support the SJW indoctrination of minorities.

    Very interesting; Christians used to be concerned about converting them to their own faith to save their souls at one point in history. Times change, I guess. Maybe they’ve thrown in the towel on that.

    progressivism is a deeply flawed view, that will eventually die out.

    Agreed. Just wondering how many it’ll take down with the ship…

    Peace.

    • Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    You are still seeing Muslim through the lens of an ethnicity. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that if more Germans convert to Islam and external immigration is cut off, they will be the ones creating the native resurgence.
     
    I don't see mass conversion happening voluntarily. More like a hostile takeover. I don't know if you've read Soumission by Houllebecq, but I would imagine something like that would take place. Most Europeans have no interest in converting to Islam.

    A 90% Native European country shrinking at 20,000 people per year is far more desirable than a country with Muslim (vast majority are non-whites) keeping the population growth afloat. The white population will shrink regardless - it's the V4 choice to allow themselves breathing room to repopulate with their own Native stock (at least they are making an attempt).

    Your in-group keeps shrinking.
     
    Unfortunately (or fortunately), I'm not a member of the white working class. I'm what you might call a class traitor - a rich WASP who is sympathetic to the less able members of his own people. More precisely, I have worked labour jobs and grown to like and respect Workers (alot more than uppity blood sucking elites).

    And again, this is a problem. It doesn't mean the WWC is destined to die, if we work with it. I see a problem, I'm working towards a solution.

    White Muslims are no longer considered White
     
    Not really a problem with their "whiteness", more that they have chosen to desert to a foreign and hostile ideology. Which is fine, they should be happy to live in countries based on their ideologies.

    Traditional Muslims like myself don’t have that problem since we don’t have an inferiority complex.
     
    Many of the older professors at my university are like that. I do respect them. I can think of about one guy under 30 that is the same way. While the 1st generation may be fine, we have to live with their shitty children. The root problem must be stopped.

    Or are you more from the atavistic position of; well, I don’t really believe in it, but our forefathers used to do this, so…
     
    Hmm... here's the way I feel about it. I believe the Bible has great teachings, values, and morals to base one's life (and a society) around, specifically Protestantism. The proof is in the pudding, as we have seen in Western Europe and America.

    So, does it really matter if you believe whether the stories themselves are true word for word, as long as you accept the teachings? If one accepts the teachings of the Bible, that's good enough for me. One can go through life following the Bible pretty closely, without fully believing in it as a historical account. Which goes back to my previous points about atheists being acceptable in my society, SO LONG as they accept the Biblical values.

    Personally, I've always been massively curious. Well, science clearly doesn't answer many questions. I find the history in the Bible to be more likely than current acceptable scientific theories. Is it really more crazy to believe that "a God incarnated Himself in the body of a 1st century Jewish man in Roman-governed Palestine and died for your sins" as opposed to "an explosion occurred from nothing and created everything?" Just imagine the concept of nothing.

    I'm always open to new ideas, though. If a mathematician could prove to me that life did originate from a random, secular event, I could be inclined to listen. But from what I see, we are in fact stupid, sinful and ignorant beings maybe not even meant to know such facts (in our lifetime anyways), so we just have to accept that.

    Christians used to be concerned about converting them to their own faith to save their souls at one point in history. Times change, I guess. Maybe they’ve thrown in the towel on that.
     
    I think you're mistaking my views here. I put EUROPEAN first, before Christianity. We are in a demographic war, where the entire planet is fighting against us. Whatever puts "minorities" on the back foot demographically is a success for me. I support Christian values for white folks.

    Agreed. Just wondering how many it’ll take down with the ship…
     
    Probably most of the world. If it does succeed in bringing down the West, Africa will starve, India and Pakistan will out-do each other in genocidal methods, and the globe will revert back to pre-enlightenment times pretty quickly. Maybe Islam can have another golden age from the [radioactive] ashes of most of the world.
  272. @Twinkie

    The “words” primarily stemmed from your bizzare insistence that I’m a WN, but again, I don’t care. Certainly the WNs here know that I am not one of them.
     
    I don’t know if you are WN, but I suspected so at the time, because you kept fixating on race wars (and I wrote that most people who fixate on race wars are frequently those who want it to happen and are usually WN).

    The point in digging up that ancient history was to point out that you are not exactly an unbiased observer regarding me. So your ever-so good-willed amateur psych evaluation should be taken with a pinch of salt, eh?

    because you kept fixating on race wars

    This is factually incorrect. I challenge you to prove otherwise.

    This is to provide context so others can judge for themselves.

    And despite your apparent lack of good will

    I was using good will as in making good faith argument and dialogue. Apparently it means something else for you.

    THAT would show me that you are not malicious.

    I’ve tried before and now here. I can live with your misconceptions.

    You can’t argue and dialogue you seem to only read from a script.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    I challenge you to prove otherwise.
     
    People with time to waste can read through the thread where you jumped in on a conversation between Razib Khan and me and started a dispute with me, with the whole thing ending with me suggesting we not comment on each other’s posts as things were getting personal.

    https://www.unz.com/gnxp/open-thread-11202016/#comment-1664485

    I was using good will as in making good faith argument and dialogue. Apparently it means something else for you.
     
    Yes, apparently I consider those who resort to the following kinds of statements to be not of good will.

    Twinkie’s not good at dialogue (interpersonal skills as you say)
     

    Two personality faults: You couldn’t find humility in the dictionary even with the aid of a pack of excellent seeing-eye dogs.
     
    There is a whole paragraph block in your comments that is an amateur, Internet psych evaluation, with nothing about the subject matter at hand upthread. Those aren’t good faith arguments. They are pure ad hominem designed to “win” by casting aspersions of character flaws. Most people, I’d wager, would not consider articulating, literally, “personality faults” of one’s interlocutor, as “good faith argument and dialogue.”
  273. @Talha

    A low-fertility country full of Muslims however is a dangerous recipe for disaster (GERMANY), which has the double-whammy of Muslim takeover plus Native decline.
     
    You are still seeing Muslim through the lens of an ethnicity. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that if more Germans convert to Islam and external immigration is cut off, they will be the ones creating the native resurgence.

    The White Working Class
     
    Your in-group keeps shrinking.

    Muslim imports (and all subcontinentals) work at low wages with no unionization
     
    I'm not talking about Muslim imports. As I said, I'm not in favor of more immigration - you are arguing a point to the wrong person here.

    They do what the neo-liberals tell them, like sheep.
     
    I'd actually like to see some evidence that Muslims actually oppose the concept of unionization. I can understand why importing more people (Muslim or not) will depress wages and hurt locals, which is why I'm not a fan.

    I suppose they would have the option of converting from Islam, or being repatriated to their Muslim country of choice.
     
    OK, so White atheists are good, but White Muslims are no longer considered White enough - this is getting very interesting. OK, what about immigrant Muslims that apostate to Christianity to be able to stick around?

    But, why did he think that converting to Islam would solve any of those problems?
     
    I have met a bunch of converts for whom converting to Islam solved a bunch of problems. Fixed up their lives.

    I’m all ears.
     
    To be honest, the vast majority of Whites I've come across - even traditional minded ones that have religious values simply don't think along the lines you are proposing - this is from observation.

    become a mixture of fuckboys and hood rats.
     
    Yup, there are plenty of those types of Muslims. I tend to call them "ethnic Muslims"; that is why they are so messed up - their identity is cultural and based on a thin veneer of religion. That's why they get so screwed up, they aren't grounded and are looking for identity and acceptance. Traditional Muslims like myself don't have that problem since we don't have an inferiority complex.

    Good fences make good neighbours.
     
    Agreed. I simply don't see why this can't be done within a nation, but that's OK.

    The WASP/American experiment of total equality with Jews has gone quite badly, we see the results today.
     
    Ah, but they get virtue-signalling points over Islam...that must count for something.

    As for atheism, I don’t see that as negative, as long as they have the right values.
     
    That is a very interesting sentence right there. Very interesting. If you don't mind me asking; when you say you are a Christian - do you mean that in a cultural sense or a serious and deliberate doctrinal sense; like you believe a God incarnated Himself in the body of a 1st century Jewish man in Roman-governed Palestine and died for your sins? Or are you more from the atavistic position of; well, I don't really believe in it, but our forefathers used to do this, so...

    I fully support the SJW indoctrination of minorities.
     
    Very interesting; Christians used to be concerned about converting them to their own faith to save their souls at one point in history. Times change, I guess. Maybe they've thrown in the towel on that.

    progressivism is a deeply flawed view, that will eventually die out.
     
    Agreed. Just wondering how many it'll take down with the ship...

    Peace.

    You are still seeing Muslim through the lens of an ethnicity. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that if more Germans convert to Islam and external immigration is cut off, they will be the ones creating the native resurgence.

    I don’t see mass conversion happening voluntarily. More like a hostile takeover. I don’t know if you’ve read Soumission by Houllebecq, but I would imagine something like that would take place. Most Europeans have no interest in converting to Islam.

    A 90% Native European country shrinking at 20,000 people per year is far more desirable than a country with Muslim (vast majority are non-whites) keeping the population growth afloat. The white population will shrink regardless – it’s the V4 choice to allow themselves breathing room to repopulate with their own Native stock (at least they are making an attempt).

    Your in-group keeps shrinking.

    Unfortunately (or fortunately), I’m not a member of the white working class. I’m what you might call a class traitor – a rich WASP who is sympathetic to the less able members of his own people. More precisely, I have worked labour jobs and grown to like and respect Workers (alot more than uppity blood sucking elites).

    And again, this is a problem. It doesn’t mean the WWC is destined to die, if we work with it. I see a problem, I’m working towards a solution.

    White Muslims are no longer considered White

    Not really a problem with their “whiteness”, more that they have chosen to desert to a foreign and hostile ideology. Which is fine, they should be happy to live in countries based on their ideologies.

    Traditional Muslims like myself don’t have that problem since we don’t have an inferiority complex.

    Many of the older professors at my university are like that. I do respect them. I can think of about one guy under 30 that is the same way. While the 1st generation may be fine, we have to live with their shitty children. The root problem must be stopped.

    Or are you more from the atavistic position of; well, I don’t really believe in it, but our forefathers used to do this, so…

    Hmm… here’s the way I feel about it. I believe the Bible has great teachings, values, and morals to base one’s life (and a society) around, specifically Protestantism. The proof is in the pudding, as we have seen in Western Europe and America.

    So, does it really matter if you believe whether the stories themselves are true word for word, as long as you accept the teachings? If one accepts the teachings of the Bible, that’s good enough for me. One can go through life following the Bible pretty closely, without fully believing in it as a historical account. Which goes back to my previous points about atheists being acceptable in my society, SO LONG as they accept the Biblical values.

    Personally, I’ve always been massively curious. Well, science clearly doesn’t answer many questions. I find the history in the Bible to be more likely than current acceptable scientific theories. Is it really more crazy to believe that “a God incarnated Himself in the body of a 1st century Jewish man in Roman-governed Palestine and died for your sins” as opposed to “an explosion occurred from nothing and created everything?” Just imagine the concept of nothing.

    I’m always open to new ideas, though. If a mathematician could prove to me that life did originate from a random, secular event, I could be inclined to listen. But from what I see, we are in fact stupid, sinful and ignorant beings maybe not even meant to know such facts (in our lifetime anyways), so we just have to accept that.

    Christians used to be concerned about converting them to their own faith to save their souls at one point in history. Times change, I guess. Maybe they’ve thrown in the towel on that.

    I think you’re mistaking my views here. I put EUROPEAN first, before Christianity. We are in a demographic war, where the entire planet is fighting against us. Whatever puts “minorities” on the back foot demographically is a success for me. I support Christian values for white folks.

    Agreed. Just wondering how many it’ll take down with the ship…

    Probably most of the world. If it does succeed in bringing down the West, Africa will starve, India and Pakistan will out-do each other in genocidal methods, and the globe will revert back to pre-enlightenment times pretty quickly. Maybe Islam can have another golden age from the [radioactive] ashes of most of the world.

    • Replies: @peterAUS

    I see a problem, I’m working towards a solution.
     
    Reasonable.

    Perhaps not destined to succeed, due to

    ...we are in fact stupid, sinful and ignorant beings maybe not even meant to know such facts...
     
    but, anyway....

    I know that the "self-determination" is in "alt-whatever" sphere in West "no-no" thing. That's O.K.
    The same thing is definitely "Yes-Yes" in Eastern Europe, but, that doesn't count. Whatever.

    I have a feeling why Americans, on the "right" are vehemently against it. They are...ahm...reluctant to spell it out. Understandable.

    You, apparently, are Canadian. So, what do you think, what's the problem with the idea :
    1. Can't work because the "opposition" will crush it.
    2. Can't work because majority of Whites in West don't buy it.
    3. Can't work because....hehe...it's not right. I mean, it's immoral. Whites would lose high...haha...moral ground there.
    4...?

    Just curious.
    , @Talha

    I don’t see mass conversion happening voluntarily.
     
    I'm not talking mass conversions - I'm talking the trickle that is already taking place. As Shaykh Abdal Hakim Murad stated, if we stick firm to our principles we will be the obvious choice for those that want to opt out of the madness of modernity.

    it’s the V4 choice to allow themselves breathing room to repopulate with their own Native stock (at least they are making an attempt).
     
    Yes, I'd like to see how that experiment goes.

    a foreign and hostile ideology
     
    Very interesting because I've heard a few White Nationalists claim the same for Christianity - it also being a Middle Eastern import. It's funny, but it seems the notion I sometimes get is; it is perfectly European to accept that God incarnated Himself as a 1st century Jewish man from Palestine, but unacceptably foreign to believe the Arabs received a prophet 600 or so miles away.

    If one accepts the teachings of the Bible, that’s good enough for me.
     
    OK - so this is where it gets interesting. You don't really believe in the core narrative, you just want to be able to pick and choose the values you find in it - which can really be done with any religion. I see this a lot in the Alt-right, these are the signs of a dead religion walking. I'll tell you why. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you don't attend any church nor support any through donations, correct? You see, someone like me tries to attend mosques on a regular basis and donates to multiple ones in my area as well. I saw a video recently of a church that had been bought by Muslims and turned into a mosque, posted by some guy complaining that this is happening in the West. Well yeah, these places need to be attended and supported. But nobody will do that if they don't care much about it other than values they can conveniently sit at home and pick out of a book.

    Was this the end trajectory of the Protestant/Reformation project? Possibly.

    Which goes back to my previous points about atheists being acceptable in my society, SO LONG as they accept the Biblical values.
     
    OK - now we're getting somewhere. Something along the lines of a state many Islamists imagine; requiring non-Muslim minorities to adhere to Shariah. Question; which Biblical values are you speaking of? Like, are you opposed to fornication? Do you think atheists would comply?

    an explosion occurred from nothing and created everything?
     
    But that isn't the either/or option.

    I put EUROPEAN first, before Christianity.
     
    Yes that seems to be the case. Christianity is simply a useful tool. Olivier Roy wrote a brilliant article about this:
    https://international.la-croix.com/news/is-europe-still-christian/9224

    All of the concerns you have put forth have a decidedly materialist calculus, reference to Christianity is an afterthought (as you readily admit). I notice you avoided the question about immigrant Muslims that "switch teams" and become, say, devout Christians; whether they would be allowed to stay or not.

    Look, it's all very Machiavellian to LARP Christianity, but I wonder what God thinks about this approach...

    Which leads me further along the conclusion, that I am having a hard time escaping, that the victory of White Nationalism in the West will be the death knell of any real semblance of Christianity. Which is one of the reasons why I have been very forthright that I will support an attempt at White Nationalist secession in the US if I can vote on it as long as they promise to make Islam prohibited within their jurisdiction - which seems quite likely as per our conversation.

    where the entire planet is fighting against us
     
    I've conversed with Israeli Jews that have this kind of bunker mentality too.

    Whatever puts “minorities” on the back foot demographically is a success for me. I support Christian values for white folks.
     
    So say there are devout Catholic Filipinos or devout Christian Koreans living in Canada that are successful and flourishing in numbers due to their adherence to traditional Christian values. Are you saying you would prefer that their families get infected by the poz and lose religion so that they are less of a bother to your project? That seems to be a strange set of Biblical values right there.

    Maybe Islam can have another golden age
     
    It has been foretold, thus it will happen - the only question is when.

    Peace.
  274. @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    You are still seeing Muslim through the lens of an ethnicity. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that if more Germans convert to Islam and external immigration is cut off, they will be the ones creating the native resurgence.
     
    I don't see mass conversion happening voluntarily. More like a hostile takeover. I don't know if you've read Soumission by Houllebecq, but I would imagine something like that would take place. Most Europeans have no interest in converting to Islam.

    A 90% Native European country shrinking at 20,000 people per year is far more desirable than a country with Muslim (vast majority are non-whites) keeping the population growth afloat. The white population will shrink regardless - it's the V4 choice to allow themselves breathing room to repopulate with their own Native stock (at least they are making an attempt).

    Your in-group keeps shrinking.
     
    Unfortunately (or fortunately), I'm not a member of the white working class. I'm what you might call a class traitor - a rich WA