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Are Joe Biden and his corporatist handlers further left than New York City mayor Bill de Blasio? Than Minneapolis mayor Jacob Frey? Than Seattle mayor Jenny Durkan? Than Portland mayor Ted Wheeler, whose reelection bid is in real trouble on account of a woman who is challenging him from his left? No, not by a long shot?

Is Biden and company further left than those mayors’ constituencies? No, not by an even longer shot?

Then why the expectation a Biden victory in November will put the unrest to rest? It won’t.

 
• Category: Culture/Society • Tags: Civil unrest, Election 2020 
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  1. I suppose the assonance is there in the Geordie accent.

    If Biden is not further left than any of these, what makes you think he’s going to win at all?

    • Replies: @MBlanc46
  2. Truth says:

    Again, Old Sport, it is not about “left wing” and “right wing” because as the two sides extend outward from the center, they converge on each other and meet in a circular fashion like a snake eating its own tail.

    What was the substantive difference between Hitler and Stalin, again?

  3. Jay Fink says:

    It will be fun to watch the left eat their own. My guess is the white suburbanites who are so appalled at Trump’s mannerisms will be horrified when the far left isn’t satisfied and keeps pushing. They have false comfort that everything will be nice and peaceful once Trump is removed.

  4. It’s not the unrest that will stop but the anti-anti-unrest.

  5. @Truth

    “What was the substantive difference between Hitler and Stalin, again?”
    Hitler had better dress sense — ie style.
    Hitler was usually loyal to friends & comrades. (Hitler hated specific groups — Stalin hated any/everyone when it suited)
    Hitler liked animals.
    Hitler was a great orator (even if you dont agree with what he said).
    Hitler had a capacity for physical courage. (ie Iron Cross)
    Hitler had some strategic military sense.
    Otherwise, I guess, they were both a couple of cunts.

    • Replies: @Truth
  6. Ponder this…

    • Replies: @indocon
  7. Sean says:

    Then why the expectation a Biden victory in November will put the unrest to rest? It won’t.

    Yet another reason why Harris will be President faster than anyone thinks possible,

  8. iffen says:

    Then why the expectation a Biden victory in November will put the unrest to rest?

    I recoil from accelerationism, but at least this would be beneficial to “our” side.

  9. … Portland mayor Ted Wheeler, whose reelection bid is in real trouble on account of a woman who is challenging him from his left….

    I assume that the ranks of Portland homeowners include a substantial number of more or less normal persons. They might be left of center on average, perhaps, but more or less normal nevertheless. Is the assumption wrong?

    According to The Wall Street Journal (paywalled), the race is a two-way runoff. At this point, the woman is the sole alternative. The woman is a college administrator who two years ago reportedly wrote, “I am Antifa,” but she is the sole alternative.

    Were I a Portland homeowner, I would vote anyone but Wheeler. Wouldn’t you? Better the unknown, college-administrating SJW than the known, riot-promoting jackass.

  10. @Truth

    What was the substantive difference between Hitler and Stalin, again?

    Well Hitler would have presided over the top economy in Europe if he had simply stayed in his borders.

    Stalin didn’t really understand economics since he followed Marx and instead of trying to understand the flaws of his command economy he would just send the critics off to the gulag.

    Hitler actually had numerous national policies that were praised internationally but then he decided to start a world war. I guess being a peacetime hero was too boring for him.

    Both were complete pyschos but Stalin was really a loser from the start like most leftists. He was threatened by anyone with natural talent and even had heroes of the revolution executed. His extreme paranoia came from a lack of confidence. He just assumed people would conspire against him. I suppose he should get credit for being able to strategize in war and not care about the waves of men he through at the nazis.

    • Replies: @Truth
  11. neutral says:
    @Truth

    What was the substantive difference between Hitler and Stalin, again?

    One believed that race was the primary national and personal identifier, the other thought that race does not matter and that instead being part of the proletariat mattered. The one identified the jew as the deadliest of enemies, the other was at best mixed (only right at the end of his life did he start noticing the jew). You don’t consider these substantive?

  12. Nodwink says:
    @Truth

    Stalin won the biggest war in history, while Hitler lost.

  13. @Truth

    Using two authoritarian statists as the definitional examples of “far right” and “far left” will get you useless definitions like that.

    What we call the right in the US is characterized by small government Constitutionalism (though it get really fails to deliver) in what way does a further progression of small government Constitutionalism lead to Hitler and Naziism? Postulating Hitler as the logical extreme of the US right is ludicrous.

    • Disagree: V. K. Ovelund
    • Replies: @Truth
    , @dfordoom
  14. Realist says:

    The fact fact that Biden is even in the running for Presidency…is proof positive that this country is through.

  15. botazefa says:

    Then why the expectation a Biden victory in November will put the unrest to rest? It won’t.

    If Harris is elected, the oligarchy will stop ‘televising’ any remaining dissent that doesn’t feed the narrative about evil white men. It will be memoryholed.

    Or, I could be wrong and we aren’t in a rapid civilizational decline.

    Peak humanity was in the ’90s, in my estimation.

    • Replies: @AaronInMVD
  16. @V. K. Ovelund

    The question for Portland — which will become the question for the rest of us in time:

    When the literally Fuck 12 ACAB girl is the mayor (and therefore chief of police), will the cops obey her orders to arrest people for defending themselves?

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
  17. Anon[866] • Disclaimer says:

    More like Hidin’ Biden.

  18. @Not my economy

    When the literally … [“all cops are bastards (ACAB)”] girl is the mayor (and therefore chief of police), will the cops obey her orders to arrest people for defending themselves?

    Probably.

  19. Arclight says:
    @Jay Fink

    A lot of them look on and murmur approval of proposed measures to increase diversity, inclusion and equity because that’s something that they don’t think will touch them personally. But when a critical mass of their kids and spouses obviously lose out on opportunities as a result with no equivalent option readily available, dismay will settle in, followed by anger.

    Undoing what they’ve enabled will not be easy.

  20. indocon says:
    @The Alarmist

    This discounts the heavy number of traditional Republicans who are voting for Biden this time. You have to look at actual precincts just to see the magnitude of the shift, consider suburban Hinds county Mississippi, very white and very Republican, it actually voted for Clinton last time!!

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    , @shyguy
  21. @Jay Fink

    Jay Fink says:

    It will be fun to watch the left eat their own. My guess is the white suburbanites who are so appalled at Trump’s mannerisms will be horrified when the far left isn’t satisfied and keeps pushing. They have false comfort that everything will be nice and peaceful once Trump is removed.

    I say:

    Continuity bias is strong in the Upper Middle Class White Boob American and in a lot of other Americans and the only thing holding this thing in the USA together is monetary extremism from the privately-controlled Federal Reserve Bank.

    The asset bubbles in stocks and bonds and real estate are what keep these White boob bastards fat and happy and in a zombie state of Continuity Bias Bliss.

    When the monetary extremism music is over those sonofabitches are gonna turn out the lights on the dreams of a fat and happy future.

    I say raise the federal funds rate to 20 percent like it was in 1981 and pop all these damn asset bubbles in stocks and bonds and real estate.

    • Agree: Jay Fink
  22. The massive miscalculation that whites and the right made was the idea that they should trigger the Left. The second delusion is accelerationism.

    You only provoke an enemy that you intend to utterly vanquish. While a small number of whites have the “courage” to fulminate on the internet, the majority of the people’s and the GOP’s leadership will is only to capitulate.

    You should have negotiated a slower, peaceful surrender by massively supporting Hillary in 2016, followed by a slow and orderly transfer of wealth and power. Appeasement would have bought you time. We may have even conceded a flattering epitaph for the end of your 2000 year reign.

    But now look at what your delusions have wrought: you have rapidly lost ground under Trump by every metric. Every adverse cultural trend has accelerated rapidly, and record numbers of whites have not only bowed the knee, but are joining us in the BLM movement.

    Trump’s legacy: you have awakened a sleeping giant and now you will reap the whirlwind.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
  23. Mr Epigone says:

    Then why the expectation a Biden victory in November will put the unrest to rest? It won’t.

    I say:

    When President Biden and new US Senate Majority Leader Schumer don’t comply with AOC and company on a two thousand dollar a month Guaranteed Federal Reserve Bank Monthly Income — including a lump sum retroactive payment back to April — there will be blood in the Democrat Party.

    The mentally deranged street bastards will go ballistic when Biden and Harris give them the double bird on any economic populist laws or legislation.

    Trump is electoral toast on November 3 and the rancid and putrid politician whores in the Republican Party will be electorally wiped out.

    WHITE CORE AMERICA RISING!

    • Troll: Manfred Arcane
  24. @indocon

    This discounts the heavy number of traditional Republicans who are voting for Biden this time….

    Assuming they bother to show up, they would not be voting for Biden; they would be voting against Trump. I suspect most would simply not vote.

    The point of the table and analysis is that actual party line crossovers are most likely to translate into votes, and in swing states the advantage is going to the Rs. The polls are mostly fiction for a whole host of reasons.

    What is most likely going to hobble Trump is a large amount of his potential base among the so-called independents sitting at home… that and massive fraud and court and election count and state legislature challenges without end.

    This one will likely be decided in the House of Representatives even if it is a Trump landslide.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
  25. @The Alarmist

    This one will likely be decided in the House of Representatives even if it is a Trump landslide.

    Unless the Electoral College fails to deliver a majority, the only role the 12th Amendment seems to grant the House is to watch while the vice president counts the votes.

    Are you projecting that the College will fail to deliver a majority?

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  26. Daniel H says:

    Yeah, the street mayhem will continue, and eventually burn itself out. Why? Because, generally, ANTIFA/BLM are stupid. If you rounded. up 50 of them and submitted them to an IQ evaluation I would guess that the mean IQ of the group would be around 90. Now compare that with the mean IQ of the old Bolsheviks, some of the brightest men (and a few women) that the Russian empire could produce. I would guess that the mean IQ of the old Bolsheviks was somewhere between 130-140, with a very deep bench of capable second and third stringers. In retrospect, it is not surprising at all that these men were able to overthrow one of the most powerful regimes of the early 20th century and assume control of that vast empire.

    ** Some of the Old Bolsheviks

    Vladimir Lenin
    Leon Trotsky
    Nadezhda Krupskaya
    Joseph Stalin
    Nikolai Bukharin
    Grigory Zinoviev
    Lev Kamenev
    Yakov Sverdlov
    Alexandra Kollontai
    Sergey Kirov
    Lazar Kaganovich

    • Agree: Yahya K.
    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  27. @V. K. Ovelund

    Yes, I’m expecting Dem activists will challenge the certified results or entertain sending alternative slates that will knock out the “official” results. Naturally they will target Trump-leaning states, but it might make it impossible for either to get past 270.

    • Replies: @A123
  28. A123 says:
    @The Alarmist

    The SJW Globalist DNC was looking for a knockout in the Supreme Court. Glorious ACB replacing Notorious RBG makes that highly unlikely. The court will be 6-3 against SJW vote fraud.

    Anything that stretches out the timeline works in Trump’s favor. If it goes to the House, the Constitutionally mandated method is — One vote per State, first to 26 wins.

    The DNC chance of stealing the election is approaching 0%. Frantic desperation explains their shrill & histrionic behaviour.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  29. @A123

    SCOTUS will punt and tell the politicos to follow the Constitution and relevant state and Federal laws.

    One vote per state, which is why Dems are making full-court presses in many “safe” Repube districts. Don’t underestimate their ability to turn Repube districts after the fact: 2018 was a dress rehearsal for 2020.

    • Replies: @A123
  30. A123 says:
    @The Alarmist

    Roberts squishy middle position left the court paralyzed & punting at 4-4-1.

    With ACB’s confirmation, it will be 5-3-1 or 6-3. There is no reason to believe that SCOTUS will be actively complicit in DNC vote fraud by ‘punting’.

    Knowing that Court Packing is a Biden priority, do you believe that that The Nine will choose to weaken themselves by supporting a change to eleven? Each one of The Nine individually benefits by stopping Court Packing. We may even see a surprising 9-0 decision against DNC vote fraud.

    PEACE 😇

  31. Anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:

    The Harris-Biden restoration will do nothing to rewind this exposed societal dysfunction, other than to render the media coverage of it more discreet, of course.

  32. Truth says:
    @John Johnson

    Stalin didn’t really understand economics since he followed Marx and instead of trying to understand the flaws of his command economy he would just send the critics off to the gulag.

    This is a bit of a naive misunderstanding; both Hitler and Stalin were very, very wealthy, as were they’re friends and families. Don’t belive the official garbage about “Communists.”

    https://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-politicians/presidents/fidel-castro-net-worth/

    Well Hitler would have presided over the top economy in Europe if he had simply stayed in his borders.

    If “ifs” and “buts” were candy and nuts, we’d all have a Merry Christmas.

    Hitler actually had numerous national policies that were praised internationally

    So did Stalin. That’s why we’ve had “communist uprisings” around the world for 90 years now.

  33. Truth says:
    @Cloudbuster

    What we call the right in the US is characterized by small government Constitutionalism (though it get really fails to deliver)

    Full stop.

    Then who do you consider a Harbinger of small government constitutionalism if not an authoritarian statist? Dutch Reagan? Richard Nixon? The prepper you know who lives underground out on route 23?

    I once bought into this Libertarian nonsense until really thinking about it. I even voted for Big Daddy Paul once. But logic intervenes at some point.

    So what do we mean by small government? Low, if not no taxes? Great, let’s just create kings and let anyone who’s daddy gave him money be a member in a dynasty forever.

    Reduced regulations on businesses, becuause they interfere with “freedom”? Great, I thought that is what the bankers had now.

    Tarriffs? Wait a minute those are regulations, which need… a government department to enforce them.

    Reduced immigration? But wait, I own a hotel, you are interfering with my God-given right to make money.

    Snake bitting it’s own tail.

    BTW, do you know which for presidents have grown the deficit most?

    1. Camacho
    2. Boy George
    3. Dutch
    4. Big George
    5. (Barry)

    Ladies and gentlemen, I introduce to you; The Small Government Conservatives…

    https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/jul/29/tweets/republican-presidents-democrats-contribute-deficit/

    https://mises.org/library/republicans-and-big-government

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2020/02/01/trumps-deficits-are-racing-past-obamas/#46793c814819

    • Replies: @A123
    , @Jay Fink
    , @Cloudbuster
  34. shyguy says:
    @indocon

    Hinds County, Mississippi is primarily black and Democrat. Adjacent Madison and Rankin counties are white and Republican.

    • Replies: @indocon
  35. A123 says:
    @Truth

    The problem will small government theology is that it cannot cope with economic slowdowns. The Austerity Trap is:

    — Corporations in a down turn paying less tax.
    — Individuals in a down turn pay less tax.
    — Government exacerbating the down turn by cutting spending as a response to low tax collection.

    The new Populist GOP has no interest in crushing U.S. Citizens with failed theology. Barack Hussein, The Worst President in U.S. History, devastated America with 8 years of jobless ‘recovery’. As a consequence, the Populist GOP is spending to compensate for SJW Globalist ultra-failure.

    Given how much that Democrats hate U.S. Citizens, perhaps someone can get them to adopt Austerity Trap economics. They despise jobs that pay a decent wage, and want everyone to be on the government dole.

    PEACE 😇

  36. A123 says:

    Ignore the obviously bogus Fake Stream Media polls. The TRUTH looks like this: (1)

    A whopping 56% of Americans say they are better off now than they were four years ago, and President Trump draws large, enthusiastic crowds wherever he goes. Meanwhile, Joe Biden is a pale shell of his formerly buffoonish self. When Joe is able to get out of bed, his campaign schedules intimate invitation-only events. Supposedly this is because of COVID, but everyone knows it is really because he doesn’t want to be embarrassed by his inability to draw a crowd. Probably no one outside of Biden’s immediate family particularly wants him to be president.


     
    PEACE 😇
    _______

    (1) https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/10/a-dose-of-optimism.php

  37. AaronInMVD says: • Website
    @botazefa

    If not the 1990’s it certainly wasn’t more than a handful of years into this century. By 2005 the US made it clear they were going to blow all their treasure on Regime Change, and when Colonel Ghaddafi fell there wasn’t anyone left to separate Europe and Africa.

    On the flip side, Eastern humanity is on the upswing…

    • Replies: @botazefa
  38. Rosie says:

    How depressing is this?

    “The thing that stings the most is that I feel like we’re embarrassing,” Lee said. “I feel like people in Europe and the rest of the world look at America and think: ‘What the f–k are you guys doing over there? Stop voting for celebrities and get someone real to run the country.’”

    We owe this penetrating piece of political analysis to Motley Crue drummer Tommy Lee. Jet set problems, I guess. It’s been a few years, but I seem to recall seeing nothing but White people at the one MC concert I went to. Now, he just has contempt for the people who made him rich and famous.

    https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/tommy-lee-leave-us-trump-wins-election.amp

    • Replies: @usNthem
    , @Truth
  39. @Ari Eisenberg

    You have awakened a sleeping giant and now you will reap the whirlwind.

    Wishful thinking. Nonsense. Projection.

    You should have negotiated a slower, peaceful surrender by massively supporting Hillary in 2016, followed by a slow and orderly transfer of wealth and power. Appeasement would have bought you time. We may have even conceded a flattering epitaph for the end of your 2000 year reign.

    Your twisted attitude is why anti-Semitism is rising. Get a clue.

  40. indocon says:
    @shyguy

    I meant Madison. Counties in the south are so small compared to California, I assumed that area was under the same county.

  41. Jay Fink says:
    @Truth

    I am not surprised because Republicans cut taxes while increasing spending. I wish they would cut programs for the groups that vote Democrat but they don’t have the guts.

    • Agree: V. K. Ovelund
    • Replies: @Truth
  42. usNthem says:
    @Rosie

    And people (in general) need to pay no attention to brain dead, washed up ex-celebs. Especially another idiot who claims he’ll be moving back to mother Greece (or wherever) if Trump is re-elected.

  43. Truth says:
    @Rosie

    That’s what you get.

    Next time go see Slipknot.

  44. @Truth

    1. The President doesn’t control the amount of government spending, Congress does.

    2. At no point in your rant do you explain how poor fiscal decisions equals “Nazi.”

    3. I conceded in my original post that Republicans don’t deliver on their small government promises, so you’re not revealing anything to me with your rant. None of your criticisms of alleged Republican fiscal malfeasance explains how National Socialism is the endgame of US conservative rule.

    4. Are you seriously asking for me to regurgitate what traditional US conservatism means? I don’t owe you that much time. Read some Russell Kirk. I’m not saying I endorse or agree with traditional US conservatism, but it is what it is. It has stated ideals, and those ideals don’t lead to National Socialism.

    Thus, using Hitler as the definitional endpoint of the US Right is *still* delusional.

    You did a “full stop” on “small-government conservatism” because it allowed you to side-step the main point.

    • Replies: @Truth
  45. botazefa says:
    @AaronInMVD

    I dunno if Easterners will be able to enjoy much foe too long. Our technology has become so complicated and intrusive and habit forming. We’re gonna lose our history. Mike Judge foresaw it and warned us in Idiocracy.

    People can’t separate truth from fiction any more.

    I’m feeling especially pessimistic presently. Hopefully I’ve got it all wrong.

    • Replies: @AaronInMVD
  46. MBlanc46 says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Because they’re certainly not going to vote for Trump.

  47. Truth says:
    @Cloudbuster


    #1 and #2 are malleable and change accross epochs, time zones, and countries. #3 is universal and timeless.

    • LOL: Nodwink
    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
  48. @Truth

    So that’s all you’ve got?

    • Replies: @Truth
  49. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Cloudbuster

    What we call the right in the US is characterized by small government Constitutionalism

    You really think so?

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
  50. @dfordoom

    That’s what conservatives say. The fact the politicians in office don’t really practice it is really beside the point. Politicians aren’t ideologues, they are cynical vote chasers. People who think and write about conservative ideology define it very briefly as small government Constitutionalism. That’s the story they sell the faithful.

    What gets practiced on the “left” and “right” often bears little relationship to official ideologies. But we still talk about ideologies aspirationally.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
  51. @Cloudbuster

    Sorry, accidentally posted without finishing.

    I’m getting pretty tired of saying that neither ideologically nor in how Republicans actually govern is there anything to suggest that National Socialism and Hitler is the logical extension of the US Right, and nobody has said anything substantive to counter that, both drdoom and Truth diving into fairly irrelevant side issues.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    , @A123
    , @dfordoom
  52. @Cloudbuster

    I’m getting pretty tired of saying that neither ideologically nor in how Republicans actually govern is there anything to suggest that National Socialism and Hitler is the logical extension of the US Right, and nobody has said anything substantive to counter that….

    Yes, but neither are National Socialism and Hitler the logical extension of the U.S. Left.

    I get the right-Libertarian argument that it were a logical extension, but I think the argument myopic. Blood and soil are not chiefly left-wing concerns.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
  53. A123 says:
    @Cloudbuster

    The underlying issue is that Left-Right as a spectrum does not work anymore. Try to make your point without using left or right, and you will bypass prejudice against your argument.

    The Fascist Stormtroopers of Antifa are the foot soldiers of DNC Authoritarianism.

    It does not matter if the Fascist DNC is “left” or “right”. What matters is that they are the party of extreme hate.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
  54. Truth says:
    @Cloudbuster

    I’m not really sure what you are asking me. Why do I consider The Nazis a representitive of Right-Wingism and the Commies a representitive of Left-Wingism?

    Who would you consider fair representitives? Two professors you had in college? I don’t know those guys.

    • Replies: @A123
  55. AaronInMVD says: • Website
    @botazefa

    I don’t think a Dark Age is unavoidable at this point. Not with the speed nonsense spreads so readily and becomes “official truth” that embeds. Lets leave the COVID thing for now and look how in just a few hours “sexual preference” has been deemed offensive just because Judge Amy said it during her confirmation hearing. Or how Hunter Biden’s abandoned hard drive and unpaid repair bill turned into “hacking!1111!!!!!!1!!” despite the clear public interest in the information leaked from there.

    But yes, the complexity of everything means that kids can’t bump their heads into all the hazards underlying their lives world anymore. This is the problem of the younger generations, so many people are living to reach an age of maturity while the process of maturing becomes ever more difficult due to the explosion in complexity.

    I honestly don’t know enough about the Eastern cultures to really understand how they will either cope or not. Down here the Uruguayos do the thing where they try to float on as best as they can with heavy tariffs on imports to keep some activity in the country.

    In this light the English “common law” system seems to be an especially pernicious handicap hanging out for the UK, US, Canada, Australia, and other Anglophone areas stuck with it. As surely as miniaturization and autism blew up the complexity in computing, Pilpul has blown up the complexity of law in jurisdictions that allowed it to.

    • Replies: @botazefa
  56. A123 says:
    @Truth

    Would you concede that:

    — Both Nazis and Communists are Authoritarian-Wingers?
    — And, the logical opposite are Anti-Authoritarian, Individualist-Wingers?

    Nazis and Commies share a common viewpoint on the primacy of Authoritarian state power. They are conceptually on the same side. However, there is no way to unwind this on the problematic Left-Right spectrum without finding a way to place Nazi/Commie jointly at the Left end of the scale.

    If you insist on using “Left-Right”, then you need to grasp that a huge portion of readers will interpret this as Authoritarian Left (Commie/Nazi) versus Freedom Right (Anti-Commie/Anti-Nazi). If that is not what you wish to communicate, I would suggest picking different terminology.

    You and Cloudbuster may agree. The tags “Left” and “Right” are actually obscuring the underlying issues.
    ____

    I have had similar problems communicating with Iffen and DforDoom. Romney and Trump are ideological opposites. Which one is “Left”? Which one is “Right”? If Trump is “Right” the Romney must be “Left”. Or, should that be the other way around?

    Trump cares about U.S. Citizen workers. Does that make him Labour “Left”? Or, are Workers now “Right” while corporations are “Left”. Given the tie between Corporate Power and Authoritarian Power, an Authoritarian/Corporate/Romney “Left” is logically consistent.
    ____

    IMHO — It is better to ditch the internally inconsistent “Left-Right” spectrum and and replace it with something more meaningful, such as “Populist-Globalist”.

    It is easier for readers to process & accept:

    — Authoritarian/Corporate/Romney = “Globalist”
    — Liberty/Worker/Trump = “Populist”

    PEACE 😇

    • Agree: Cloudbuster
    • Replies: @Truth
    , @dfordoom
  57. Truth says:
    @A123

    Would you concede that:

    — Both Nazis and Communists are Authoritarian-Wingers?
    — And, the logical opposite are Anti-Authoritarian, Individualist-Wingers?

    Yes.

    However, there is no way to unwind this on the problematic Left-Right spectrum without finding a way to place Nazi/Commie jointly at the Left end of the scale.

    Well, in the highly creative world of the internet right-wingers, as is probably the case with our friend, this may be true, Nazi’s/Commies are both left wingers. But the technical definition of a left-winger is someone who wants to re-distribute income “equally” which the Commies are, and the same for the technical definition of the right-winger; a merit based society in which the strong, and talented thrive, which the Nazi’s were, and many German companies, still in business today, such as VW, started during their reign.

    Of course this is all bullshit.

    What Cloudbuster also does not seemingly believes, (from the little bit I can decipher) is “well yes, the communists represent the left wing, but why do the Nazi’s need to represent the right, we are the good guys! We need to be represented by someone nice like Ron Paul.”

    OK., here’s the crux; has Ron Paul’s manifesto added up to ANYTHING for past 40 years he has been in the public eye? What about Rand Paul for 20? No, ok then, political power comes from the barrel of a gun, this truth gives not one whit which phony “side” of the phony liberal-conservative specturm one claims to represent. Money finds it way upward, not downward, and this is insured with young men with large guns, Ergo, Hitler represents the “right-wing, Stalin the left, anything else is a coffee shop argument amongst broke academics.

    • Replies: @A123
    , @V. K. Ovelund
  58. A123 says:
    @Truth

    There is a difference between the existence of an ideology and its success rate. Your proprietary spectrum that is 100% Authoritarian with the endpoints as Authoritarian Left vs. Authoritarian Right, leaves out a huge number of ideological viewpoints.

    As there is no single source that gets to define “Left-Right”, no one can say that your stance is wrong. However your writing will be confusing or incomprehensible to most readers, as they do not share your personal 100% Authoritarian Only scale.

    You will be a more effective communicator if you stop using “Left-Right” terminology.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Truth
  59. Truth says:
    @A123

    Hitler: Powerful Army, the state enriches private businessmen to construct it’s armory. The average citizen has little money and no power. Right-wing (facisim).

    Stalin: Powerful Army, the state constructs its own armory. The averagne citizen has little money and no power Left-wing (communism).

    What idealogical viewpoints am I missing? give me an example.

    • Replies: @A123
  60. botazefa says:
    @AaronInMVD

    Well said.

    Another component of the complications that average humans are ill equipped to handle is the ‘appification’ of all our regular life functions.

    What do I mean by ‘appification?’ I’m talking about all those functions that used to have a human representative interfacing with back end services. Eg, customer service reps. Need to get electricity turned on? Call a number and a human asks you questions and fills out the data entry form for you. That service still exists, but hold times get longer and language proficiency of the call center decreases. Jobs are lost, and eventually one has to download the electric company’s app and fill out the information for themselves. How much IQ does it take to self service getting electricity, arranging internet installation, or enrolling your child in school?

    Want a job? You’d better be able to navigate LinkedIn and you’d better hope you are comfortable kbowing that Microsoft owns LinkedIn. There’s no one to call for help with the LinkedIn app. No recourse if your name ends up in a LinkedIn affiliated no-hire database containing a list of undesireables against which corporate HR consults before hiring. Such probably already exists and it’s hardly speculative to suggest it is all probably quite legal. Even very bright people can’t get off no fly lists. Good luck getting off a no hire list.

    Wanna vote? Sure, you can use that form available at the local DMV, but what if it’s closed due to covid and, you being a millennial, fall for some ‘voting’ app that charges a fee and collects extraneous personal info, then sends you a pre-printed voter registration form ready for your signature. Complicated, abusive, unethical, and highly profitable. You could call the local voter registration office, but if you are young how would you know you can so that?

    The technical new world order will be completely self service and require 100+ IQ to navigate. There will be no jobs for average folk who have only their labor to offer. All the average IQ data entry and customer service jobs have been offshored. Obviously, this is an untenable situation if societal stability is a goal. Eventually, there’s nothing left to loot. Then what?

    Tell me more about Uruguay 😁

    • Replies: @Badger Down
  61. A123 says:
    @Truth

    What idealogical viewpoints am I missing? give me an example.

    — Belief in God & Jesus Christ
    — Belief in Individual Freedom

    There are many others.

    Again, I am not trying to change your mind. You personally believe that only Authoritarian options are possible. So be it.

    My observation is that very few readers, other than Cold War relics like The Saker, share your proprietary definition of “Right”. The belief that Hitler is a right-wing leader died with the East-West paradigm. You will communicate more effectively if you avoid terms that the vast majority of readers will not interpret as you intend.

    PEACE 😇

    • Agree: Cloudbuster
  62. @A123

    Don’t blame me. My when point was to dispute the “left and right circle around and meet each other” proposition by Truth. Pointing out even more ways that doesn’t make sense doesn’t make me wrong.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    , @A123
  63. @V. K. Ovelund

    And if I was asserting that here, that would be an important point. Global communism — Soviet style Marxism — is also not necessarily the logical endgame of the left, but at least it had more basis in experience and fact. I agree that left-right is myopic and I’d say they’ve become virtually useless as terms with meaningful content. They are just team names now, if that.

    To the degree that they once had aspirational meanings, they certainly don’t circle around and meet each other at the extremes.

  64. A123 says:
    @Cloudbuster

    I am not “blaming” anyone.

    The goal is to point out that there are no longer valid assumptions about how readers will interpret “Left” and “Right”. The best option is to avoid these terms as they no longer have reliable meaning for the purpose of communication.

    PEACE 😇

  65. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Cloudbuster

    I’m getting pretty tired of saying that neither ideologically nor in how Republicans actually govern is there anything to suggest that National Socialism and Hitler is the logical extension of the US Right,

    I agree with you. There’s also nothing to suggest that Bolshevism and Stalin is the logical extension of the US Left.

    It’s not really accurate to think of political ideologies quantitatively – that if you keep moving to the Right you end up with Hitler and if you keep moving to the Left you end up with Stalin or Mao. And it’s inaccurate to judge political ideologies by how Left or Right they are. There are a whole bunch of political ideologies that differ qualitatively. Fascism, National Socialism, Maoism, Fabian Socialism, Social Democracy, Libertarianism, Small Government Constitutionalism, Classical Liberalism, etc.

    These are distinct and discrete ideologies. They’re not just arbitrary points on a continuum.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  66. dfordoom says: • Website
    @A123

    It is better to ditch the internally inconsistent “Left-Right” spectrum

    I agree.

    and replace it with something more meaningful, such as “Populist-Globalist”.

    But I think that’s just replacing one meaningless misleading spectrum with another .

    It’s better to ditch the whole idea of a political spectrum.

    Maybe something like political Venn Diagrams would be more satisfactory.

  67. @Truth

    The Right honors blood and soil. The Right seeks continuity. The Right bows to human nature, accepts limits to human endeavor, expects human imperfectability, pursues finite virtue via self-control and external control of vice, and believes that the best possible future is not too dissimilar to the past.

    The Right temperamentally distrusts bright ideas.

    The Left is the opposite of all these things.

    [MORE]

    The Left prefers analysis; the Right prefers experience. The Left credits morality through reason; the Right credits inheritance and duty. The Left believes that unhappiness can be cured; the Right believes that unhappiness is man’s mortal lot and that amelioration of a degree of unhappiness is the best that can be achieved. (Ironically in view of the last point, by nearly every measure, the Right is and always has been happier than the Left.)

    Authoritarianism is a tool either Left or Right can use, but Left and Right approach authoritarianism from opposite directions. The Left begins by assuming that authority were not very necessary but then, once in power, rapidly escalates authority when the Left finds that things do not otherwise go the Left’s way. The Right begins by assuming that authority were indeed necessary and thus seeks to adjust the balance of it.

    Those that try to perceive Left and Right through a lens of liberty will never be able to bring Left and Right into focus. Like it or not, Fascism is a political philosophy of the Right.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @dfordoom
  68. dfordoom says: • Website
    @V. K. Ovelund

    The Right honors blood and soil. The Right seeks continuity.

    The mainstream Right does not honour blood and soil. Small government constitutionalists do not honour blood and soil. The Libertarian Right does not honour blood and soil. The free-market enthusiasts of the Right do not honour blood and soil. The Religious Right does not honour blood and soil. Among those who identify as being on the Right there’s only a tiny minority who honour blood and soil.

    Also, blood and soil is not incompatible with socialism, or even communism. I’d say that North Korea probably honours blood and soil a hell of a lot more than most of the American Right.

    The Right…pursues finite virtue via self-control and external control of vice, and believes that the best possible future is not too dissimilar to the past.

    That doesn’t sound to me like most of the modern Right. The modern Right worships capitalism. The pursuit of profit and the worship of greed are totally incompatible with the pursuit of virtue via self-control.

    And the modern Right believes that GDP must keep growing forever. That’s not exactly consistent with continuity.

    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
  69. dfordoom says: • Website
    @V. K. Ovelund

    The Left credits morality through reason; the Right credits inheritance and duty.

    I’d have to go with the Left on that one.

    The Left believes that unhappiness can be cured; the Right believes that unhappiness is man’s mortal lot and that amelioration of a degree of unhappiness is the best that can be achieved.

    Maybe unhappiness cannot be cured but I can’t help feeling more sympathy for those who would at least like to try making people less unhappy. On the Right there’s too much of a tendency to think that people who are poor and miserable deserve to be poor and miserable.

    (Ironically in view of the last point, by nearly every measure, the Right is and always has been happier than the Left.)

    The Right has been traditionally supported by the rich. And rich people are a lot happier than poor people.

  70. The mainstream Right does not honour blood and soil. Small government constitutionalists do not honour blood and soil. The Libertarian Right does not honour blood and soil. The free-market enthusiasts of the Right do not honour blood and soil. The Religious Right does not honour blood and soil. Among those who identify as being on the Right there’s only a tiny minority who honour blood and soil.

    The minority is hardly tiny, but otherwise your correction is accepted.

    Maybe unhappiness cannot be cured but I can’t help feeling more sympathy for those who would at least like to try making people less unhappy.

    As a rule, those who try to relieve the distress of individuals close to them are on the Right. Those that promote grand schemes to relieve distress globally are on the Left.

    The latter tend to end up making most of us miserable.

    Also, blood and soil is not incompatible with socialism, or even communism. I’d say that North Korea probably honours blood and soil a hell of a lot more than most of the American Right.

    Probably true.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  71. dfordoom says: • Website
    @V. K. Ovelund

    As a rule, those who try to relieve the distress of individuals close to them are on the Right. Those that promote grand schemes to relieve distress globally are on the Left.

    The problem is that the entity that describes itself as the modern Left has largely abandoned the idea of trying to make life better for everyone. Now they only want to make life better for a few specially selected Virtuous Victim groups.

    The Left abandoned the concept of Economic Justice (which really did aim to improve things for the population as a whole) in favour of Social Justice. The Left abandoned leftism in favour of capitalism.

    Just as these days there’s only a small minority of conservatives who are actually conservative, there’s only a small minority of Leftists who are actually Leftist.

  72. @Jay Fink

    Yes, I get the sense that a lot of the suburbanites who think Biden/Harris will lead to a return to normalcy are going to be sadly mistaken. It will be interesting to see what the federal response is to cities where the unrest is uncontrolled. My guess is that it will be more of what we’ve been seeing. That is, nothing.

  73. @V. K. Ovelund

    I wouldn’t live in Portland to begin with, but the point is well taken.

  74. @Daniel H

    American universities are full of professors who sympathize with them. Many are them, explicitly.

  75. @botazefa

    I’m in a foreign country. My stupid government thinks I may be dead. They want proof that I’m alive. I could skype them, show my face, hold up my passport, sign a piece of paper, but Mummy say NO. Go to the consulate?: “We no longer provide proof-of-life service”.

    I wouldn’t bother, but you know what happened to Bobby Fischer? Suddenly his passport didn’t work.

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