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In response to the data showing much stronger support for Trump than for the Republican party among Trump voters, AP makes an eminently reasonable assertion:

So Trump voters are not necessarily Republicans, while Republican voters are not necessarily Trump supporters – and Republican candidates seem to have done better than Trump in 2020.

But the trend holds among self-described Republicans as well, albeit not so starkly:

Even among Republicans, Trump trumps the Republican party, and Trump’s tent is larger than the GOP’s is. Is it conceivable that art of the deal man puts McConnell’s troops over the top in Georgia without extracting anything in return?

 
• Category: Culture/Society, Ideology • Tags: Election 2020, Polling 
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  1. Is it conceivable that art of the deal man puts McConnell’s troops over the top in Georgia without extracting anything in return?

    Yes. Donald Trump may have been a good deal-maker in the real estate business (I’m not going to buy his book), but he seems to suck pretty bad at it in politics with a few exceptions in foreign policy. Maybe he’s just good when one-on-one as a diplomat but can’t develop a strategy in which you must make more complicated deals, I dunno.

    I can believe the graph, because the Red Team is behaving like its usual traitorous self again.
    At VDare, Washington Watcher II details how much we are getting screwed on immigration by the GOP, which started I guess after this election was declared over by the Official Press. Read “Learned Nothing, Forgotten Nothing”—Texas Senator John Cornyn Leads GOP Establishment Rush To Dump Trumpism. But Base Doesn’t Agree and weep for your country.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Trump needs to spend the next four years primarying people like this, given the economic backdrop pitchforks will be out anyway.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt, @Achmed E. Newman

    , @Observator
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Trump was a disaster in the real estate business and an astonishingly poor deal maker. When the Donald found himself deep in debt and short of cash in 2004, he bullied his siblings into agreeing to sell the real estate empire his grandfather built for a quick $705 million - even though its actual worth was over a billion dollars. He got in this fix even though his first casino was a success - but then he built two more, which glutted the demand and bankrupted all three. Too headstrong to follow advice, Trump foolishly applied his father's model of success in rental housing - always build more - and failed dramatically.

    Replies: @John Johnson

    , @Magic Dirt Resident
    @Achmed E. Newman

    And I thought Cornyn was halfway decent.

    Trump can and should play kingmaker in the future GOP. There's way more enthusiasm for him than any establishment figure, partly due to his policies but moreso due to his charisma and talent as a performer. It will be interesting to see how the chips fall.

  2. Did Republicans do better than Trump?

    Only 1 Senate candidate of either party (Collins) won in a state that did not vote for the party’s Presidential candidate.

    There was some talk about how Republican House candidates got more votes than Democratic House candidates in several states where Biden won. But that is probably the result of under-voting, which is normally higher in Democratic precincts than Republican precincts (and especially in heavily non-white precincts). It is also affected by the presence of a Libertarian candidate in the Presidential race but not in most House races. I believe, for example, that the same thing happened in PA in 2004.

  3. Is it conceivable that art of the deal man puts McConnell’s troops over the top in Georgia without extracting anything in return?

    Like what? It’s not like he has any particular ideology or policy agenda.

  4. Trump did better, the fraud distorts that, unfortunately the fraud is enabling a lot of bad takes like this. Trump needs to keep on hammering the fraud issue whether it overturns the result or not, already it has become accepted there was substantial fraud, despite the media’s best efforts.

    Collins is the only one, but Trump still picked up that Maine district that none else could have. McSally was a typical GOP candidate who underperformed Trump.

    • Replies: @Supply and Demand
    @LondonBob

    Trump lost the election.

    Replies: @A123

  5. @Achmed E. Newman

    Is it conceivable that art of the deal man puts McConnell’s troops over the top in Georgia without extracting anything in return?
     
    Yes. Donald Trump may have been a good deal-maker in the real estate business (I'm not going to buy his book), but he seems to suck pretty bad at it in politics with a few exceptions in foreign policy. Maybe he's just good when one-on-one as a diplomat but can't develop a strategy in which you must make more complicated deals, I dunno.

    I can believe the graph, because the Red Team is behaving like its usual traitorous self again.
    At VDare, Washington Watcher II details how much we are getting screwed on immigration by the GOP, which started I guess after this election was declared over by the Official Press. Read “Learned Nothing, Forgotten Nothing”—Texas Senator John Cornyn Leads GOP Establishment Rush To Dump Trumpism. But Base Doesn’t Agree and weep for your country.

    Replies: @LondonBob, @Observator, @Magic Dirt Resident

    Trump needs to spend the next four years primarying people like this, given the economic backdrop pitchforks will be out anyway.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    @LondonBob

    Yep. My advocacy for Trump to sink one of the two Senate candidates and save the other is based on this. They obey Trump or Trump's people will end their careers.

    The Progressive Left is good at this. AOC took out a rottenborough Democrat to win her seat, as did my local Democrat.

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @LondonBob

    WE need to spend the next 4 years primarying people like this, Bob. (OK, not you, if you are in London.)

    It never happens though, cough, Miss Lindsey Grahamnesty, cough cough, and even if it did, I believe it's much too late to fix this country via voting.

    Replies: @Pop Warner, @Realist

  6. @LondonBob
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Trump needs to spend the next four years primarying people like this, given the economic backdrop pitchforks will be out anyway.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt, @Achmed E. Newman

    Yep. My advocacy for Trump to sink one of the two Senate candidates and save the other is based on this. They obey Trump or Trump’s people will end their careers.

    The Progressive Left is good at this. AOC took out a rottenborough Democrat to win her seat, as did my local Democrat.

  7. @LondonBob
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Trump needs to spend the next four years primarying people like this, given the economic backdrop pitchforks will be out anyway.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt, @Achmed E. Newman

    WE need to spend the next 4 years primarying people like this, Bob. (OK, not you, if you are in London.)

    It never happens though, cough, Miss Lindsey Grahamnesty, cough cough, and even if it did, I believe it’s much too late to fix this country via voting.

    • Replies: @Pop Warner
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Definitely, their feet should be held to the fire by their own supporters. It's a shame these guys don't have town halls, otherwise their own base can tear them a new ashore. Most importantly, constituents need to find/support nationalist candidates in their district or state to challenge these traitors. Trump can't be the one to do it, it falls on the people themselves to reject GOP betrayal.

    , @Realist
    @Achmed E. Newman


    It never happens though, cough, Miss Lindsey Grahamnesty, cough cough, and even if it did, I believe it’s much too late to fix this country via voting.
     
    Absolutely correct. This country's problems will not be resolved through the electoral process
  8. What did Trump get in return for passing that tax cut nobody but Paul Ryan wanted?

  9. @Achmed E. Newman

    Is it conceivable that art of the deal man puts McConnell’s troops over the top in Georgia without extracting anything in return?
     
    Yes. Donald Trump may have been a good deal-maker in the real estate business (I'm not going to buy his book), but he seems to suck pretty bad at it in politics with a few exceptions in foreign policy. Maybe he's just good when one-on-one as a diplomat but can't develop a strategy in which you must make more complicated deals, I dunno.

    I can believe the graph, because the Red Team is behaving like its usual traitorous self again.
    At VDare, Washington Watcher II details how much we are getting screwed on immigration by the GOP, which started I guess after this election was declared over by the Official Press. Read “Learned Nothing, Forgotten Nothing”—Texas Senator John Cornyn Leads GOP Establishment Rush To Dump Trumpism. But Base Doesn’t Agree and weep for your country.

    Replies: @LondonBob, @Observator, @Magic Dirt Resident

    Trump was a disaster in the real estate business and an astonishingly poor deal maker. When the Donald found himself deep in debt and short of cash in 2004, he bullied his siblings into agreeing to sell the real estate empire his grandfather built for a quick $705 million – even though its actual worth was over a billion dollars. He got in this fix even though his first casino was a success – but then he built two more, which glutted the demand and bankrupted all three. Too headstrong to follow advice, Trump foolishly applied his father’s model of success in rental housing – always build more – and failed dramatically.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    @Observator

    He got in this fix even though his first casino was a success – but then he built two more, which glutted the demand and bankrupted all three. Too headstrong to follow advice, Trump foolishly applied his father’s model of success in rental housing – always build more – and failed dramatically.

    What happened was that he built a horribly gaudy casino called the Trump Taj MahHal in Atlantic City for 1.2 billion. He paid for it with junk bonds under the assumption that it would make a lot of money really fast which would then let him pay back the high interest loans.

    There was definitely a period of glut in the economic downturn but the bigger problem is that no one was impressed by it. Trump really thought that everyone would think its golden spires were classy and would want to stay there. Take a look at some the old photos, it's awful.

    Anyways Hard Rock bought it for 50 million and turned it into a success. They tore down all the gaudy spires and statues.

    Replies: @Wency

  10. Even among Republicans, Trump trumps the Republican party

    The perfect illustration of this effect is Sundance and his blog:

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com

    He may be the originator of the shorthand GOP(e) for GOP Establishment. It is certainly where I got it from.

    Trump represents what the GOP should be.

    Is it conceivable that art of the deal man puts McConnell’s troops over the top in Georgia without extracting anything in return?

    Unfortunately, the question is not valid.

    There is objective proof that ballots were fabricated in Fulton County changing the outcome of the last election. There is no reason to believe that this corrupt machine will not contaminate the next election.

    Given total judicial disintrest, exposing that fraud is not a viable option.

    The only path to a GOP victory is out fabricating the Fantabulous Fulton Fraudsters. I do not know if Team McConnell has the backbone. Perhaps he does… McConnell did block Barack Hussein’s Supreme Court nominee.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Rosie
    @A123


    Given total judicial disintrest, exposing that fraud is not a viable option.
     
    I too am concerned about this.

    The establishment is waving off fraud concerns with this claim that whatever fraud happened it was not enough to change the outcome. I rather doubt this for numerous reasons, but even if it's true, any perpetrators still need to be held responsible. Otherwise, cheating may well be even more pervasive, and outcome-determinative, next time.

    I believe this mantra about there being no evidence of fraud sufficient to change the outcome is a deliberate distraction from the total impunity for malfeasors we will see concerning this fiasco.
  11. Four possibilities.

    1: Trump supports GA senate candidates, they win
    2: Trump supports GA senate candidates, they lose
    3: Trump does not support GA senate candidates, they win
    4: Trump does not support GA senate candidates, they lose

    If Trump takes option 1, he gets no credit anyway. Option 3 is the worst outcome, because the cucks will feel emboldened, but the least likely.

    If you truly believe that the dems committed election fraud, 2 and 4 are the only real possibilities. If the candidates are going to lose, Trump flexes more muscle by declaring he will not support them. GOPe will bitch and moan that the senate could have been won if Trump wasn’t a crybaby for the next two years. If Trump is competent (I don’t think that he is), he will primary every disloyal cuck as revenge in 2022.

    Of course, if you really believe that the dems committed election fraud, the 2022 elections don’t matter anyway.

  12. Look at the platforms of the Georgia people and you need no further explanation as to why Trump won in 2016 and lost in 2020. The GOP sucks. Burn it down and build something new. Lesser of two evils is only going to buy you the more organized evil.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  13. @Achmed E. Newman
    @LondonBob

    WE need to spend the next 4 years primarying people like this, Bob. (OK, not you, if you are in London.)

    It never happens though, cough, Miss Lindsey Grahamnesty, cough cough, and even if it did, I believe it's much too late to fix this country via voting.

    Replies: @Pop Warner, @Realist

    Definitely, their feet should be held to the fire by their own supporters. It’s a shame these guys don’t have town halls, otherwise their own base can tear them a new ashore. Most importantly, constituents need to find/support nationalist candidates in their district or state to challenge these traitors. Trump can’t be the one to do it, it falls on the people themselves to reject GOP betrayal.

  14. @Achmed E. Newman
    @LondonBob

    WE need to spend the next 4 years primarying people like this, Bob. (OK, not you, if you are in London.)

    It never happens though, cough, Miss Lindsey Grahamnesty, cough cough, and even if it did, I believe it's much too late to fix this country via voting.

    Replies: @Pop Warner, @Realist

    It never happens though, cough, Miss Lindsey Grahamnesty, cough cough, and even if it did, I believe it’s much too late to fix this country via voting.

    Absolutely correct. This country’s problems will not be resolved through the electoral process

  15. @Observator
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Trump was a disaster in the real estate business and an astonishingly poor deal maker. When the Donald found himself deep in debt and short of cash in 2004, he bullied his siblings into agreeing to sell the real estate empire his grandfather built for a quick $705 million - even though its actual worth was over a billion dollars. He got in this fix even though his first casino was a success - but then he built two more, which glutted the demand and bankrupted all three. Too headstrong to follow advice, Trump foolishly applied his father's model of success in rental housing - always build more - and failed dramatically.

    Replies: @John Johnson

    He got in this fix even though his first casino was a success – but then he built two more, which glutted the demand and bankrupted all three. Too headstrong to follow advice, Trump foolishly applied his father’s model of success in rental housing – always build more – and failed dramatically.

    What happened was that he built a horribly gaudy casino called the Trump Taj MahHal in Atlantic City for 1.2 billion. He paid for it with junk bonds under the assumption that it would make a lot of money really fast which would then let him pay back the high interest loans.

    There was definitely a period of glut in the economic downturn but the bigger problem is that no one was impressed by it. Trump really thought that everyone would think its golden spires were classy and would want to stay there. Take a look at some the old photos, it’s awful.

    Anyways Hard Rock bought it for 50 million and turned it into a success. They tore down all the gaudy spires and statues.

    • Replies: @Wency
    @John Johnson

    I haven't been to Atlantic City, but have been to Vegas many times (for business -- I hate the place) and I thought every casino in Vegas, with maybe 1-2 exceptions, is gaudy beyond belief. And even those exceptions start to look gaudy the longer you scrutinize them. So I don't know, how gaudy is too gaudy? It's not that obvious.

    I worked some in commercial real estate, and the thing about Trump's performance is I think too little is known to judge much of it. He's obviously not that big a success, or he'd be manifestly a lot richer. But he's not that big a failure or he'd be much poorer. As to whether his performance was above or below-average, I don't think anyone can say except Trump. And honestly I kind of doubt he's ever even done that calculation in a sincere, objective way.

    The fact Trump financed that casino with junk bonds tells me there was probably a very high debt-to-value ratio, and no bank would touch it because they usually want at least 20-30% equity. Trump put in very little of his own money. He probably extracted some other fees too. And yet he still walked away with some equity after the bankruptcy, which tells me the people that really got hosed were the bondholders. I doubt he made money on the deal, at least not much of it, but my point is it's not impossible for a developer to make money on a real estate deal that goes bankrupt.

  16. @Achmed E. Newman

    Is it conceivable that art of the deal man puts McConnell’s troops over the top in Georgia without extracting anything in return?
     
    Yes. Donald Trump may have been a good deal-maker in the real estate business (I'm not going to buy his book), but he seems to suck pretty bad at it in politics with a few exceptions in foreign policy. Maybe he's just good when one-on-one as a diplomat but can't develop a strategy in which you must make more complicated deals, I dunno.

    I can believe the graph, because the Red Team is behaving like its usual traitorous self again.
    At VDare, Washington Watcher II details how much we are getting screwed on immigration by the GOP, which started I guess after this election was declared over by the Official Press. Read “Learned Nothing, Forgotten Nothing”—Texas Senator John Cornyn Leads GOP Establishment Rush To Dump Trumpism. But Base Doesn’t Agree and weep for your country.

    Replies: @LondonBob, @Observator, @Magic Dirt Resident

    And I thought Cornyn was halfway decent.

    Trump can and should play kingmaker in the future GOP. There’s way more enthusiasm for him than any establishment figure, partly due to his policies but moreso due to his charisma and talent as a performer. It will be interesting to see how the chips fall.

  17. “Is it conceivable that art of the deal man puts McConnell’s troops over the top in Georgia without extracting anything in return?”

    that would be fair, since Trump delivered nothing to his voters and lots to people who would never vote for him. GOP politicians who gladly take Trump’s support then turn around and don’t support Trump or even stab him in the back is de rigueur.

    of course that sucks and i wish that wasn’t the situation. but Trump has to go now. it’s time to stop supporting him, because he doesn’t support you. Trump sucking up all the nationalist energy for the next 4 years then making a 2024 run is almost a worst case scenario

    wokring hard for Trump and campaigning and donating money and waving around flags so leftists can punch you is NO different than current GOP attempts to get you to vote for the 2 Senators in Georgia, then turn around and vote to replace you with Indians and Mexicans. and that is their plan, you can bet on that.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @prime noticer


    of course that sucks and i wish that wasn’t the situation. but Trump has to go now. it’s time to stop supporting him, because he doesn’t support you.
     
    I grasp this line of reasoning. It makes some sense. I deprecate Donald Trump for the same reasons you do, at any rate. Moreover, it annoys me as much as it annoys you when right-of-center politicians take our votes for granted. A right-wing voter for over 30 years, I have withheld votes from many Republicans as punishment for selling me out. (The surest way to persuade me to vote against a Republican is to advise me that I must vote for the Republican to keep the Democrat out. I've been around too long to buy that tired line.)

    However, as disappointing as Trump has been in many ways, has he not done better during these past four years than any other plausible person would have done as president?

    I get the appeal of the burn-it-all-down movement, but @dfordoom is right: “You smash the system and you get a worse system.”


    Trump sucking up all the nationalist energy for the next 4 years then making a 2024 run is almost a worst case scenario.
     
    But energy is not worth the damage.

    I suppose that my reply is not very insightful. It's not as though it told you anything you did not already know; but the whole country isn't going to go white nationalist like you and me any time soon (probably never). My judgment remains that Trump was, by a remarkably wide margin, the best compromise on offer.

    If Jeb Bush had been president these past four years, I'd probably agree with you; but Trump is an improbable historic phenomenon. True: he let us down. Are we really to toss the entire phenomenon overboard?

    Replies: @anon

  18. ABOLISH THE GOP

    • Replies: @anon
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Nah. There's no need to abolish the Washington Generals. They will slowly fade away, like the Whigs they replaced back in the 1850's. This will be a good thing, because shearing off a piece of the UniParty will create some actual breathing space for Americans who aren't in one of the Boxes of Privilege, and who aren't servants of oligarchs.

    This has happened before, and left alone it will happen again. If the Deep State insists on damming up the river of change, eventually something much more unpleasant than the end of the GOPe will be upon us. Much, much more unpleasant.

    NB: The US is still inching closer to a Constitutional crisis, even though the MSM can't see it and won't see it. This crisis is almost entirely due to a small, greedy-for-power, minority that just has to own everything and everyone. For all of its stupidities, Occupy Wall Street did get that part right.

  19. The GOP made gains in the state houses, state governorships, House of Representatives, and played good defense in the Senate (it lost 1-3 seats depending on the Georgia vote but was defending more seats than were the Democrats; for similar reasons Democrats will be playing defense in 2 years IIRC). Trump OTOH lost his election.

    Given these facts, a reasonable interpretation of the poll showing Republicans voters liking Trump more than they do the Republican Party is that a large group of Republicans are lukewarm towards their party because they see it as embracing Trump excessively. Otherwise we would expect Trump to have done better than the GOP.

    (I write this as someone who voted for Trump)

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @AP


    Given these facts, a reasonable interpretation of the poll showing Republicans voters liking Trump more than they do the Republican Party is that a large group of Republicans are lukewarm towards their party because they see it as embracing Trump excessively.
     
    Sorry, but I think that's a completely backwards interpretation. Firstly, the GOP establishment doesn't embrace Trump at all! It's only the people that do (such as you and I), due to their having NO ONE else on their side in Washington, FS. (Ron Paul has left the building.)

    You must be an outlier, AP, because Trump got votes from people who figured he was again a last-ditch hope. Of course, those coming out would vote GOP (in my case holding my nose for one particular officeholder). I don't really think a Trump re-election was going to turn around this country from the abyss, but then I sure wanted to see the lefties and Globalists get a 2nd big poke in the eye, and I was looking forward to the ensuing hysteria. Added on to the Kung Flu PanicFest hysteria, it'd really have been something ... maybe still will.

    BTW, those GOP pols being voted in while Trump lost certain States does make one wonder about the cheating. There is so much evidence, you'll get sick of all this evidence ...

    Replies: @AP

    , @Wyatt
    @AP


    Otherwise we would expect Trump to have done better than the GOP.
     
    You neglect the electoral fraud that went on. Florida requires signature validation and voter ID and none of the states that are contested required that. Trump won Florida handily. Numerous videos showed both that fraud was easy to commit and that it was actually going on.

    If the Dems had tried to cheat at the local level, not only would they be subject to an ungodly number of lawsuits, the Republicans would have had every motivation to back Trump on the fraud claims because they had something to lose. As it stands, the only large scale fraud was against Trump, thus skewing the data.
  20. anon[423] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    ABOLISH THE GOP

    http://www.enterthebible.org/media/images/source/Anthonis_van_Dyck_052_samson.jpg

    Replies: @anon

    Nah. There’s no need to abolish the Washington Generals. They will slowly fade away, like the Whigs they replaced back in the 1850’s. This will be a good thing, because shearing off a piece of the UniParty will create some actual breathing space for Americans who aren’t in one of the Boxes of Privilege, and who aren’t servants of oligarchs.

    This has happened before, and left alone it will happen again. If the Deep State insists on damming up the river of change, eventually something much more unpleasant than the end of the GOPe will be upon us. Much, much more unpleasant.

    NB: The US is still inching closer to a Constitutional crisis, even though the MSM can’t see it and won’t see it. This crisis is almost entirely due to a small, greedy-for-power, minority that just has to own everything and everyone. For all of its stupidities, Occupy Wall Street did get that part right.

    • Agree: nebulafox
  21. Trump OTOH lost his election.

    Except objective evidence and facts show that Trump *won* his election.

    Let me Fix That For You:

    Given these facts, … a large group of Republicans are lukewarm towards their party because they see it as insufficiently embracing Trump.

    PEACE 😇

  22. @AP
    The GOP made gains in the state houses, state governorships, House of Representatives, and played good defense in the Senate (it lost 1-3 seats depending on the Georgia vote but was defending more seats than were the Democrats; for similar reasons Democrats will be playing defense in 2 years IIRC). Trump OTOH lost his election.

    Given these facts, a reasonable interpretation of the poll showing Republicans voters liking Trump more than they do the Republican Party is that a large group of Republicans are lukewarm towards their party because they see it as embracing Trump excessively. Otherwise we would expect Trump to have done better than the GOP.

    (I write this as someone who voted for Trump)

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Wyatt

    Given these facts, a reasonable interpretation of the poll showing Republicans voters liking Trump more than they do the Republican Party is that a large group of Republicans are lukewarm towards their party because they see it as embracing Trump excessively.

    Sorry, but I think that’s a completely backwards interpretation. Firstly, the GOP establishment doesn’t embrace Trump at all! It’s only the people that do (such as you and I), due to their having NO ONE else on their side in Washington, FS. (Ron Paul has left the building.)

    You must be an outlier, AP, because Trump got votes from people who figured he was again a last-ditch hope. Of course, those coming out would vote GOP (in my case holding my nose for one particular officeholder). I don’t really think a Trump re-election was going to turn around this country from the abyss, but then I sure wanted to see the lefties and Globalists get a 2nd big poke in the eye, and I was looking forward to the ensuing hysteria. Added on to the Kung Flu PanicFest hysteria, it’d really have been something … maybe still will.

    BTW, those GOP pols being voted in while Trump lost certain States does make one wonder about the cheating. There is so much evidence, you’ll get sick of all this evidence …

    • Replies: @AP
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Firstly, the GOP establishment doesn’t embrace Trump at all!
     
    Privately they most likely do not but publicly other than Romney they have stood by him throughout his presidency until now.

    FWIW I doubt largescale cheating in the actual election process led to Trump losing (I agree with Karlin’s take); rather Trump lost unfairly through legal means such as media control and manipulation (i.e., shutting down the Hunter Biden scandal while constantly drumbeating about fake Russian collusion scandals, constant portrayals of Trump as an idiot and buffoon while scrubbing Biden’s gaffes our of existence) combined with hijinks such as ballot harvesting, false poll results aiming to demoralise Trump supporters, etc. The actual vote was probably real.

    The total propaganda campaign by the media and entertainment industries (popular actors, singers, trusted talk show hosts suburban women watch, athletes all joining forces to tell the people whom to vote for) probably explains why Republicans in general did better than Trump did specifically. It’s a credit to the American people that about half of them voted for Trump despite the total media barrage.

    Trump’s personal background and biography unfortunately made him an easy target. Hopefully someone without such baggage but with a similar political programme will emerge in 2024.

    Replies: @SIMP simp, @Mr. XYZ

  23. @Achmed E. Newman
    @AP


    Given these facts, a reasonable interpretation of the poll showing Republicans voters liking Trump more than they do the Republican Party is that a large group of Republicans are lukewarm towards their party because they see it as embracing Trump excessively.
     
    Sorry, but I think that's a completely backwards interpretation. Firstly, the GOP establishment doesn't embrace Trump at all! It's only the people that do (such as you and I), due to their having NO ONE else on their side in Washington, FS. (Ron Paul has left the building.)

    You must be an outlier, AP, because Trump got votes from people who figured he was again a last-ditch hope. Of course, those coming out would vote GOP (in my case holding my nose for one particular officeholder). I don't really think a Trump re-election was going to turn around this country from the abyss, but then I sure wanted to see the lefties and Globalists get a 2nd big poke in the eye, and I was looking forward to the ensuing hysteria. Added on to the Kung Flu PanicFest hysteria, it'd really have been something ... maybe still will.

    BTW, those GOP pols being voted in while Trump lost certain States does make one wonder about the cheating. There is so much evidence, you'll get sick of all this evidence ...

    Replies: @AP

    Firstly, the GOP establishment doesn’t embrace Trump at all!

    Privately they most likely do not but publicly other than Romney they have stood by him throughout his presidency until now.

    FWIW I doubt largescale cheating in the actual election process led to Trump losing (I agree with Karlin’s take); rather Trump lost unfairly through legal means such as media control and manipulation (i.e., shutting down the Hunter Biden scandal while constantly drumbeating about fake Russian collusion scandals, constant portrayals of Trump as an idiot and buffoon while scrubbing Biden’s gaffes our of existence) combined with hijinks such as ballot harvesting, false poll results aiming to demoralise Trump supporters, etc. The actual vote was probably real.

    The total propaganda campaign by the media and entertainment industries (popular actors, singers, trusted talk show hosts suburban women watch, athletes all joining forces to tell the people whom to vote for) probably explains why Republicans in general did better than Trump did specifically. It’s a credit to the American people that about half of them voted for Trump despite the total media barrage.

    Trump’s personal background and biography unfortunately made him an easy target. Hopefully someone without such baggage but with a similar political programme will emerge in 2024.

    • Disagree: GazaPlanet
    • Replies: @SIMP simp
    @AP

    Trump’s personal background and biography made him well known to the american voter and as such Teflon Don to all the accusation of racism. sexism etc
    The next GOP candidate will not have this old strong image and will be tarred as a racist from the first second by the leftist media and the average voter will believe it.

    , @Mr. XYZ
    @AP


    Hopefully someone without such baggage but with a similar political programme will emerge in 2024.
     
    Trump's political platform (crackdowns on illegal immigration, supporting "merit-based immigration", et cetera) isn't exactly friendly to those Hispanics/Latin Americans who want to come here. Aren't you pro-Hispanic, AP?

    Replies: @A123

  24. @AP
    The GOP made gains in the state houses, state governorships, House of Representatives, and played good defense in the Senate (it lost 1-3 seats depending on the Georgia vote but was defending more seats than were the Democrats; for similar reasons Democrats will be playing defense in 2 years IIRC). Trump OTOH lost his election.

    Given these facts, a reasonable interpretation of the poll showing Republicans voters liking Trump more than they do the Republican Party is that a large group of Republicans are lukewarm towards their party because they see it as embracing Trump excessively. Otherwise we would expect Trump to have done better than the GOP.

    (I write this as someone who voted for Trump)

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Wyatt

    Otherwise we would expect Trump to have done better than the GOP.

    You neglect the electoral fraud that went on. Florida requires signature validation and voter ID and none of the states that are contested required that. Trump won Florida handily. Numerous videos showed both that fraud was easy to commit and that it was actually going on.

    If the Dems had tried to cheat at the local level, not only would they be subject to an ungodly number of lawsuits, the Republicans would have had every motivation to back Trump on the fraud claims because they had something to lose. As it stands, the only large scale fraud was against Trump, thus skewing the data.

  25. The system is rigged. Always has been. The GOPe dopes are part and parcel of it.

    The system wanted to dump Trump and cheated wildly to get it.

    They’ll regret that soon. Trump is a moderate nationalist.

    A National Socialist would appeal to both nationalists and socialists.

    Fascism is the future, whether you want it or not.

    This system is dying out in real support terms.

    Only those that want the system to support them are in any way positive about it.

    This system CANNOT continue. This is the last gasp of a dying Empire.

    The New Order will rise like a Phoenix from the ashes of “democracy”.

    The Free Dumb crap is SO 1980s. Its the 21st Century now…

  26. Does it really matter. The 2020 result shows an election can be brazenly stolen in Georgia, inter alia, so I’d be surprised if either seat went to a Repube. When the Dems are done, it will be another century, at the least, before the US’s version of the Partido Revolucionario Institucional loses control of the White House to a Repube, assuming any are even allowed to exist as a loyal opposition and not simply deported to the gulag en masse with the 75 million they betrayed with their limp-wristed challenge to this election’s results. Jefe Máxima Harris will see to that.

    Any R scheming to manoeuvre for a Presidential run in 2024 is seriously deluded if he or she or it thinks they can actually win.

  27. @prime noticer
    "Is it conceivable that art of the deal man puts McConnell’s troops over the top in Georgia without extracting anything in return?"

    that would be fair, since Trump delivered nothing to his voters and lots to people who would never vote for him. GOP politicians who gladly take Trump's support then turn around and don't support Trump or even stab him in the back is de rigueur.

    of course that sucks and i wish that wasn't the situation. but Trump has to go now. it's time to stop supporting him, because he doesn't support you. Trump sucking up all the nationalist energy for the next 4 years then making a 2024 run is almost a worst case scenario

    wokring hard for Trump and campaigning and donating money and waving around flags so leftists can punch you is NO different than current GOP attempts to get you to vote for the 2 Senators in Georgia, then turn around and vote to replace you with Indians and Mexicans. and that is their plan, you can bet on that.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

    of course that sucks and i wish that wasn’t the situation. but Trump has to go now. it’s time to stop supporting him, because he doesn’t support you.

    I grasp this line of reasoning. It makes some sense. I deprecate Donald Trump for the same reasons you do, at any rate. Moreover, it annoys me as much as it annoys you when right-of-center politicians take our votes for granted. A right-wing voter for over 30 years, I have withheld votes from many Republicans as punishment for selling me out. (The surest way to persuade me to vote against a Republican is to advise me that I must vote for the Republican to keep the Democrat out. I’ve been around too long to buy that tired line.)

    However, as disappointing as Trump has been in many ways, has he not done better during these past four years than any other plausible person would have done as president?

    I get the appeal of the burn-it-all-down movement, but @dfordoom is right: “You smash the system and you get a worse system.”

    [MORE]

    Trump sucking up all the nationalist energy for the next 4 years then making a 2024 run is almost a worst case scenario.

    But energy is not worth the damage.

    I suppose that my reply is not very insightful. It’s not as though it told you anything you did not already know; but the whole country isn’t going to go white nationalist like you and me any time soon (probably never). My judgment remains that Trump was, by a remarkably wide margin, the best compromise on offer.

    If Jeb Bush had been president these past four years, I’d probably agree with you; but Trump is an improbable historic phenomenon. True: he let us down. Are we really to toss the entire phenomenon overboard?

    • Replies: @anon
    @V. K. Ovelund

    I get the appeal of the burn-it-all-down movement, but @dfordoom is right: “You smash the system and you get a worse system.”

    Lol @ aging boomers nattering at each other in comments boxes as if their opinion makes any difference.

  28. @AP
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Firstly, the GOP establishment doesn’t embrace Trump at all!
     
    Privately they most likely do not but publicly other than Romney they have stood by him throughout his presidency until now.

    FWIW I doubt largescale cheating in the actual election process led to Trump losing (I agree with Karlin’s take); rather Trump lost unfairly through legal means such as media control and manipulation (i.e., shutting down the Hunter Biden scandal while constantly drumbeating about fake Russian collusion scandals, constant portrayals of Trump as an idiot and buffoon while scrubbing Biden’s gaffes our of existence) combined with hijinks such as ballot harvesting, false poll results aiming to demoralise Trump supporters, etc. The actual vote was probably real.

    The total propaganda campaign by the media and entertainment industries (popular actors, singers, trusted talk show hosts suburban women watch, athletes all joining forces to tell the people whom to vote for) probably explains why Republicans in general did better than Trump did specifically. It’s a credit to the American people that about half of them voted for Trump despite the total media barrage.

    Trump’s personal background and biography unfortunately made him an easy target. Hopefully someone without such baggage but with a similar political programme will emerge in 2024.

    Replies: @SIMP simp, @Mr. XYZ

    Trump’s personal background and biography made him well known to the american voter and as such Teflon Don to all the accusation of racism. sexism etc
    The next GOP candidate will not have this old strong image and will be tarred as a racist from the first second by the leftist media and the average voter will believe it.

  29. Nick Fuentes is calling for a boycott of Georgia Senate elections.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @SIMP simp


    Nick Fuentes is calling for a boycott of Georgia Senate elections.
     
    Nick Fuentes is a talented, witty lad, but his skin is too thin and he likes attention too much.

    Replies: @Rosie

  30. @SIMP simp
    Nick Fuentes is calling for a boycott of Georgia Senate elections.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

    Nick Fuentes is calling for a boycott of Georgia Senate elections.

    Nick Fuentes is a talented, witty lad, but his skin is too thin and he likes attention too much.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    @V. K. Ovelund


    Nick Fuentes is a talented, witty lad, but his skin is too thin and he likes attention too much.
     
    I can't stand that little creep. I am deeply suspicious of people who won't mention their (((fellow Whites))) but constantly bash their actual fellow Whites who happen to constitute 50%+ of the White population. Oddly enough, in so doing, they reveal their awareness of who rules over them. Cum tacent, clamant.
  31. @V. K. Ovelund
    @prime noticer


    of course that sucks and i wish that wasn’t the situation. but Trump has to go now. it’s time to stop supporting him, because he doesn’t support you.
     
    I grasp this line of reasoning. It makes some sense. I deprecate Donald Trump for the same reasons you do, at any rate. Moreover, it annoys me as much as it annoys you when right-of-center politicians take our votes for granted. A right-wing voter for over 30 years, I have withheld votes from many Republicans as punishment for selling me out. (The surest way to persuade me to vote against a Republican is to advise me that I must vote for the Republican to keep the Democrat out. I've been around too long to buy that tired line.)

    However, as disappointing as Trump has been in many ways, has he not done better during these past four years than any other plausible person would have done as president?

    I get the appeal of the burn-it-all-down movement, but @dfordoom is right: “You smash the system and you get a worse system.”


    Trump sucking up all the nationalist energy for the next 4 years then making a 2024 run is almost a worst case scenario.
     
    But energy is not worth the damage.

    I suppose that my reply is not very insightful. It's not as though it told you anything you did not already know; but the whole country isn't going to go white nationalist like you and me any time soon (probably never). My judgment remains that Trump was, by a remarkably wide margin, the best compromise on offer.

    If Jeb Bush had been president these past four years, I'd probably agree with you; but Trump is an improbable historic phenomenon. True: he let us down. Are we really to toss the entire phenomenon overboard?

    Replies: @anon

    I get the appeal of the burn-it-all-down movement, but @dfordoom is right: “You smash the system and you get a worse system.”

    Lol @ aging boomers nattering at each other in comments boxes as if their opinion makes any difference.

  32. @AP
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Firstly, the GOP establishment doesn’t embrace Trump at all!
     
    Privately they most likely do not but publicly other than Romney they have stood by him throughout his presidency until now.

    FWIW I doubt largescale cheating in the actual election process led to Trump losing (I agree with Karlin’s take); rather Trump lost unfairly through legal means such as media control and manipulation (i.e., shutting down the Hunter Biden scandal while constantly drumbeating about fake Russian collusion scandals, constant portrayals of Trump as an idiot and buffoon while scrubbing Biden’s gaffes our of existence) combined with hijinks such as ballot harvesting, false poll results aiming to demoralise Trump supporters, etc. The actual vote was probably real.

    The total propaganda campaign by the media and entertainment industries (popular actors, singers, trusted talk show hosts suburban women watch, athletes all joining forces to tell the people whom to vote for) probably explains why Republicans in general did better than Trump did specifically. It’s a credit to the American people that about half of them voted for Trump despite the total media barrage.

    Trump’s personal background and biography unfortunately made him an easy target. Hopefully someone without such baggage but with a similar political programme will emerge in 2024.

    Replies: @SIMP simp, @Mr. XYZ

    Hopefully someone without such baggage but with a similar political programme will emerge in 2024.

    Trump’s political platform (crackdowns on illegal immigration, supporting “merit-based immigration”, et cetera) isn’t exactly friendly to those Hispanics/Latin Americans who want to come here. Aren’t you pro-Hispanic, AP?

    • Replies: @A123
    @Mr. XYZ


    Trump’s political platform (crackdowns on illegal immigration, supporting “merit-based immigration”, et cetera) isn’t exactly friendly to those Hispanics/Latin Americans who want to come here.
     
    However, it is appealing to many who are here legally.

    Trump increased share of Hispanic votes in many parts of the country, such as Florida.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Mr. XYZ

  33. @Mr. XYZ
    @AP


    Hopefully someone without such baggage but with a similar political programme will emerge in 2024.
     
    Trump's political platform (crackdowns on illegal immigration, supporting "merit-based immigration", et cetera) isn't exactly friendly to those Hispanics/Latin Americans who want to come here. Aren't you pro-Hispanic, AP?

    Replies: @A123

    Trump’s political platform (crackdowns on illegal immigration, supporting “merit-based immigration”, et cetera) isn’t exactly friendly to those Hispanics/Latin Americans who want to come here.

    However, it is appealing to many who are here legally.

    Trump increased share of Hispanic votes in many parts of the country, such as Florida.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    @A123

    Trump's platform appealed to Florida Hispanics and to Rio Grande Valley Mexicans, but not to urban Hispanics in the rest of the US, I believe. For instance, Biden won Arizona after Hillary lost it by 3.5% in 2016 and also Biden made gains in urban and/or suburban areas with large numbers of Hispanics, such as Dallas-Fort Worth, Austin, Houston, et cetera.

    Replies: @A123

  34. @A123

    Even among Republicans, Trump trumps the Republican party
     
    The perfect illustration of this effect is Sundance and his blog:

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com

    He may be the originator of the shorthand GOP(e) for GOP Establishment. It is certainly where I got it from.

    Trump represents what the GOP should be.

    Is it conceivable that art of the deal man puts McConnell’s troops over the top in Georgia without extracting anything in return?
     
    Unfortunately, the question is not valid.

    There is objective proof that ballots were fabricated in Fulton County changing the outcome of the last election. There is no reason to believe that this corrupt machine will not contaminate the next election.

    Given total judicial disintrest, exposing that fraud is not a viable option.

    The only path to a GOP victory is out fabricating the Fantabulous Fulton Fraudsters. I do not know if Team McConnell has the backbone. Perhaps he does... McConnell did block Barack Hussein's Supreme Court nominee.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Rosie

    Given total judicial disintrest, exposing that fraud is not a viable option.

    I too am concerned about this.

    The establishment is waving off fraud concerns with this claim that whatever fraud happened it was not enough to change the outcome. I rather doubt this for numerous reasons, but even if it’s true, any perpetrators still need to be held responsible. Otherwise, cheating may well be even more pervasive, and outcome-determinative, next time.

    I believe this mantra about there being no evidence of fraud sufficient to change the outcome is a deliberate distraction from the total impunity for malfeasors we will see concerning this fiasco.

  35. @V. K. Ovelund
    @SIMP simp


    Nick Fuentes is calling for a boycott of Georgia Senate elections.
     
    Nick Fuentes is a talented, witty lad, but his skin is too thin and he likes attention too much.

    Replies: @Rosie

    Nick Fuentes is a talented, witty lad, but his skin is too thin and he likes attention too much.

    I can’t stand that little creep. I am deeply suspicious of people who won’t mention their (((fellow Whites))) but constantly bash their actual fellow Whites who happen to constitute 50%+ of the White population. Oddly enough, in so doing, they reveal their awareness of who rules over them. Cum tacent, clamant.

  36. @John Johnson
    @Observator

    He got in this fix even though his first casino was a success – but then he built two more, which glutted the demand and bankrupted all three. Too headstrong to follow advice, Trump foolishly applied his father’s model of success in rental housing – always build more – and failed dramatically.

    What happened was that he built a horribly gaudy casino called the Trump Taj MahHal in Atlantic City for 1.2 billion. He paid for it with junk bonds under the assumption that it would make a lot of money really fast which would then let him pay back the high interest loans.

    There was definitely a period of glut in the economic downturn but the bigger problem is that no one was impressed by it. Trump really thought that everyone would think its golden spires were classy and would want to stay there. Take a look at some the old photos, it's awful.

    Anyways Hard Rock bought it for 50 million and turned it into a success. They tore down all the gaudy spires and statues.

    Replies: @Wency

    I haven’t been to Atlantic City, but have been to Vegas many times (for business — I hate the place) and I thought every casino in Vegas, with maybe 1-2 exceptions, is gaudy beyond belief. And even those exceptions start to look gaudy the longer you scrutinize them. So I don’t know, how gaudy is too gaudy? It’s not that obvious.

    I worked some in commercial real estate, and the thing about Trump’s performance is I think too little is known to judge much of it. He’s obviously not that big a success, or he’d be manifestly a lot richer. But he’s not that big a failure or he’d be much poorer. As to whether his performance was above or below-average, I don’t think anyone can say except Trump. And honestly I kind of doubt he’s ever even done that calculation in a sincere, objective way.

    The fact Trump financed that casino with junk bonds tells me there was probably a very high debt-to-value ratio, and no bank would touch it because they usually want at least 20-30% equity. Trump put in very little of his own money. He probably extracted some other fees too. And yet he still walked away with some equity after the bankruptcy, which tells me the people that really got hosed were the bondholders. I doubt he made money on the deal, at least not much of it, but my point is it’s not impossible for a developer to make money on a real estate deal that goes bankrupt.

  37. @A123
    @Mr. XYZ


    Trump’s political platform (crackdowns on illegal immigration, supporting “merit-based immigration”, et cetera) isn’t exactly friendly to those Hispanics/Latin Americans who want to come here.
     
    However, it is appealing to many who are here legally.

    Trump increased share of Hispanic votes in many parts of the country, such as Florida.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Mr. XYZ

    Trump’s platform appealed to Florida Hispanics and to Rio Grande Valley Mexicans, but not to urban Hispanics in the rest of the US, I believe. For instance, Biden won Arizona after Hillary lost it by 3.5% in 2016 and also Biden made gains in urban and/or suburban areas with large numbers of Hispanics, such as Dallas-Fort Worth, Austin, Houston, et cetera.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Mr. XYZ


    Biden won Arizona
     
    Nope.

    Trump *WON* Arizona. You cannot base any conclusions on obviously fraudulent counts.

    PEACE 😇
  38. @Mr. XYZ
    @A123

    Trump's platform appealed to Florida Hispanics and to Rio Grande Valley Mexicans, but not to urban Hispanics in the rest of the US, I believe. For instance, Biden won Arizona after Hillary lost it by 3.5% in 2016 and also Biden made gains in urban and/or suburban areas with large numbers of Hispanics, such as Dallas-Fort Worth, Austin, Houston, et cetera.

    Replies: @A123

    Biden won Arizona

    Nope.

    Trump *WON* Arizona. You cannot base any conclusions on obviously fraudulent counts.

    PEACE 😇

  39. @LondonBob
    Trump did better, the fraud distorts that, unfortunately the fraud is enabling a lot of bad takes like this. Trump needs to keep on hammering the fraud issue whether it overturns the result or not, already it has become accepted there was substantial fraud, despite the media's best efforts.

    Collins is the only one, but Trump still picked up that Maine district that none else could have. McSally was a typical GOP candidate who underperformed Trump.

    Replies: @Supply and Demand

    Trump lost the election.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Supply and Demand

    CuckSupply,

    How long are you going to keep cucking for your failed candidate Führer Biden?

    Everyone knows that Führer Biden lost. At some point you have to leave denial and begin dealing with the truth.

    Even if Führer BidenCuck makes it into the White House he will not be able to function.

    PEACE 😇

  40. Ask what the GOPe has done for you.

    Why support the losers? They’re paid to lose.

    They do a rear guard for the fake progressives.

    As if deviancy and being jannisaries for Israel is “progressive”.

    Nick is right about not supporting the system.

    The system is rigged. You’ll never get anywhere playing in a rigged system.

    The Left wants to BURN IT DOWN. Lets help them.

    The system is Anti-White and Anti-Life. Let the Left EAT THE RICH.

    I’ll bring the gravy…

  41. @Supply and Demand
    @LondonBob

    Trump lost the election.

    Replies: @A123

    CuckSupply,

    How long are you going to keep cucking for your failed candidate Führer Biden?

    Everyone knows that Führer Biden lost. At some point you have to leave denial and begin dealing with the truth.

    Even if Führer BidenCuck makes it into the White House he will not be able to function.

    PEACE 😇

  42. So Trump voters are not necessarily Republicans, while Republican voters are not necessarily Trump supporters – and Republican candidates seem to have done better than Trump in 2020.

    I don’t think it’s true at all that Republican candidates did better than Trump in 2020. In the vast majority of contests, Trump did better.

    Trump got more votes than the Senate candidate in 23 out of 35 Senate elections. That includes Alabama, Arizona, Delaware, Georgia (Loefller+Collins), Idaho, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Virginia.

    Trump was anywhere from 800 to 4,500 votes behind in Georgia (Perdue), Wyoming, West Virginia, and Texas. In Massachusetts, Trump was 10k down out of 3.5 million votes.

    Alaska and Arkansas didn’t even have Democrats running and the Democrat in Nebraska was disowned by his party.

    Susan Collins in Maine, Cory Gardner in Colorado, Mark Ronchetti in New Mexico and Mike Rounds in South Dakota are the only major exceptions.

    So 4 states out of 35 where the Republican candidate ran above Trump. Doesn’t sound like the GOP is more popular to me.

  43. Shouldn’t it be Rex Republicanorum?

    • Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @RSDB

    Probably, but an epigone came up with the title, not an actual Latin specialist.

  44. @RSDB
    Shouldn't it be Rex Republicanorum?

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    Probably, but an epigone came up with the title, not an actual Latin specialist.

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