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Thin gruel, but 2018 is the first time the survey has ever asked about pets and since I took a look I may as well share the results:

Dog owners are about 35% more likely to be conservative than to be liberal, while cat owners are marginally more likely to be liberal than to be conservative. Another stereotype empirically validated.

GSS variables used: DOG, CAT, POLVIEWS(1-3)(4)(5-7)

 
• Category: Culture/Society • Tags: Culture, GSS, Pets 
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  1. I wonder how much cat ownership might be a proxy for urban living.

    I bet there’s a spectrum on dog breeds and size of dogs. Smaller dogs or real fancy breeds => increased liberal ownership. Possibly differing sex ratios (for the dogs) too. Conservatives => more male. Probably a difference in neutering.

    I bet the people who own both a cat and dog are significantly more conservative. Probably a proxy for nuclear family.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Possibly differing sex ratios (for the dogs) too. Conservatives => more male.
     
    Having multiple female dogs as opposed to males generally lead to more squabbles. They are, pardon the pun, cattier.

    Male dogs don’t fight as often as females do, but when the former do fight, the carnage is greater. At least that’s been my experience and that of every trainer I have known.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    For those who own both:

    Liberal -- 21.3%
    Moderate -- 48.0%
    Conservative -- 30.7%

    Definitely not liberal.
  2. Or the number of cats/dogs. Everyone I know with multiple dogs are highly conservative (and that goes for my family too). I don’t know anyone with more than 2 cats, so I can’t say, but I’d speculate those with 3+ cats are more likely to be leftist.

    Or perhaps number of animals… though I know people with lots of chickens who are leftists.

    • Replies: @Oblivionrecurs
    I'm pretty well versed in the professional show-line breeder world of doggos and yeah the more successful the breeders the more likelihood of being Republican or at minimum conservative. They're also way more likely to be married and wealthy

    Cat ownership and political ideology probably is closer related to gender and a lack of marriage, considering my single women cat owners are almost always incredibly liberal no matter the cat number

    Though as a whole cat owners are more moderate and thus are the electoral key everyone hates. I love my cats though
    , @Audacious Epigone
    I know people with lots of chickens who are leftists.

    The image of an idyllic farmstead in Vermont comes to my mind.
  3. It has been empirically verified that all pet owners are assholes.

    • Replies: @Haxo Angmark
    Blacks and other genetic racial inferiors are notoriously cruel to animals,

    even companion animals like dogs and cats. Obwandiyag

    should aliyah to Wakandaland where

    it can make love to Ebola-chan.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    I identify.
  4. @songbird
    I wonder how much cat ownership might be a proxy for urban living.

    I bet there's a spectrum on dog breeds and size of dogs. Smaller dogs or real fancy breeds => increased liberal ownership. Possibly differing sex ratios (for the dogs) too. Conservatives => more male. Probably a difference in neutering.

    I bet the people who own both a cat and dog are significantly more conservative. Probably a proxy for nuclear family.

    Possibly differing sex ratios (for the dogs) too. Conservatives => more male.

    Having multiple female dogs as opposed to males generally lead to more squabbles. They are, pardon the pun, cattier.

    Male dogs don’t fight as often as females do, but when the former do fight, the carnage is greater. At least that’s been my experience and that of every trainer I have known.

  5. Dog owners are about 35% more likely to be conservative than to be liberal

    Ehh…you say ‘conservative’ I say ‘sane’…

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    The crazy cat ladies of yore have been replaced by Boomer/early GenX crazy dog ladies. Nothing creepier than a middle age woman fixated on her doggy.
  6. I would be interesting if this could show the overlap with the amount of people with pets and a family and those with pets and no family. The stereotype of the cat lady means that most of them are in the liberal section, but I am not so sure if this is true.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    There's not much evidence here for the spinster cat queen. 52% of cat owners are married compared to 55% of dog owners.
  7. Is there an idiots guide to using GSS? For example, I think marital status and number of children by cat and dog ownership would be interesting. Maybe just for people 30-60, white-only to remove our old friend “Rachel Confounds”.

    Do people with both dogs and cats appear on both sides of that graph? If so I imagine “cat-only” vs “dog (may also have cat)” would show greater split. Plenty of overlap between “cat-lady” and “wine aunt” demographics.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Not that I know of, but I'll put a post in the queue to explain it.
    , @res

    Is there an idiots guide to using GSS?
     
    If you use R, this is a start: https://www.r-bloggers.com/analyze-the-general-social-survey-gss-with-r/

    I found this thread from Emil useful: https://openpsych.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=150

    AE's posts are an excellent resource because he usually gives the exact variables used as well as discussing his transformations. Plus asking and answering enough good questions that he covers a decent selection of interesting variables.

    Stata data (I have found this works fairly well in R) for the GSS is available at http://gss.norc.org/get-the-data/stata
    Get the version with the codebook so you can figure out what the variables mean.

    P.S. AE, looking forward to your queued post.
  8. In the spirit of complete objectivity, I think it’s necessary to dive straight to the source and ask a representative from both the cat side, and the dog side, what they think:

    Pinky the cat has the floor:

    Well, his enthusiasm cannot be questioned, but now let’s ask Zeus the Dog:

    There you have it folks, the science is settled.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    Cats are super fast and agile - that's why they are great at hunting mice and snakes in the barn.

    I know that Siberian Husky routine all too well, having owned a few in the past. They are highly intelligent, high-energy escape artists, but are not too keen on pleasing their owners. They also shed massively and when they "blow" their coats twice a year, the whole house will be swimming in dog fur.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    Cats, feral creatures that they are, can only be tamed, never truly domesticated!
  9. I am conservative I grew up with dogs, love dogs.

    But I am owned by 7 cats, 5 down from 12 who all lived healthy long lives. Owned is more accurate for any pet human relationship sharing quarters.

    Had I not been prolife, I would be owned 1 cat.

    • Replies: @Truth
    Van-D, I love you man, but you depress me a little more with each comment.
  10. Least surprising finding ever, but good work on validating stereotypes as usual!

    I love both dogs and cats.

    However, no way I am ever going to live with a cat, as I’d have to be on antihistamines all the time. It was problematic when I was younger and since then its become worse.

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    I am not entirely sure if I am allergic to cats or not, but when I stayed in an old, slightly moldy, house, complete with a cat, I slept about as much as a prisoner of Soviet state security. So much sneezing.
    , @EliteCommInc.
    That's interesting allergic to cat dander, but not dogs.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    I could write exactly that, except the part about it being even worse now--I don't chance it anymore because it was brutal when I was younger. I'm probably more of a dog person at this point, but that could just be sour grapes.
  11. I’d bet that well behaved dogs tend to have conservative masters.

  12. @Anatoly Karlin
    Least surprising finding ever, but good work on validating stereotypes as usual!

    I love both dogs and cats.

    However, no way I am ever going to live with a cat, as I'd have to be on antihistamines all the time. It was problematic when I was younger and since then its become worse.

    I am not entirely sure if I am allergic to cats or not, but when I stayed in an old, slightly moldy, house, complete with a cat, I slept about as much as a prisoner of Soviet state security. So much sneezing.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    A deep breath from a cushion covered in cat fur will settle the question for you, believe me!
  13. Great. Infinity cat lady jokes.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @songbird
    That is funny. Recently, someone was telling me that their cat spied on them in the shower. I was surprised because cats don't love water, but now I see it is a meme.
    , @MikeatMikedotMike
    Well, you asked for it:


    https://youtu.be/kJZABLH2wYo
  14. Well, I’ve always owned a cat (never more than one), and I’m now to the right of Attila the Hun. But I had a family. I like the independence of cats, and their semi-wildness; I’ve never had a completely indoors cat and I think it’s wrong, given their nature. I do bell my cat so she won’t eat bluebirds. But she still catches field mice.

    My take on leftist cat ladies, who do appear to be a real thing, is that they don’t want kids, but they need to prove somehow that they are “empathetic” (buzz-word of the day), so they start piling on the cats and smothering them with weird expressions of love. What puzzles me is that they always want them confined inside. I’ve run into a few superlib “cat people” who are completely insane, devoted to “saving” feral cats by keeping them enclosed in filthy garage zoos. My husband was out running one evening, and came home to find two of them with a pet carrier in our driveway, attempting to lure our cat inside with food. He just stood there and said, “What are you doing?” They told him they were rescuing the poor cat. My husband said, well, please don’t do that, she belongs to us, and with that the rescue ladies scurried off into the darkness. Maybe they rescued a squirrel on the way home. That’s a thing, too.

    It’s obvious from jokes that cats represent femininity, and dogs masculinity, but then why would feminists be so obsessed with neutered cats? (Yes, I neutered my cat, but I’m not obsessed with neutering every cat in the world). My take is that they deeply fear femininity, which is at its core aligned with nature, and wish to “de-claw” it. And neuter it. They want everything neutered.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    One cat-dog ownership 'confound' is that cats are simply less work than dogs. They really are easier for single people to take care of, especially those who travel. If you're gone for a couple of days, the cats will be fine, but the dogs have to be arranged for.
  15. I’d be curious what this looks like if you look at single pet owners living alone, male vs. female.

    If I know a single man living alone has pet cat(s), I regard it as shameful and disgusting. Perhaps this is a bit harsh, but my reaction is visceral and instantaneous. I would suspect such men are low-T and lean left.

    Among single women, I don’t think the effect is so strong. Single women lean left anyway; I’ve known plenty of single women dog owners in the South who vote straight D every election.

    Single women who own “real dogs” — i.e., 40-50+ lb. dogs, might lean more conservative, if only because they tend to be more country.

    • Replies: @Indiana Jack
    The idea that men who own cats are low t or effeminate seems to be pretty common, but ironically, it does not seem that gay men are stereotyped as being cat lovers. They may be fond of toy dogs and poodles, but I haven't really heard of gay men keeping pet cats. Lesbians, on the other hand, seem to be largely cat lovers:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/opinion/sunday/lesbian-cats-dating.html
    , @Truth

    If I know a single man living alone has pet cat(s), I regard it as shameful and disgusting. Perhaps this is a bit harsh, but my reaction is visceral and instantaneous. I would suspect such men are low-T and lean left.
     
    You see, Van-D, that's what I'm trying to say...
    , @Audacious Epigone
    Perspicacious. Small sample size but among cat-owning single men, 45% are liberal, 42% moderate, and just 13% conservative.
  16. I was surprised that the divide was not more pronounced, and that self-described moderates were in a statistical tie. BTW, the missus and I are conservative–AND are cat owners–or staff members, if you will.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Heh, maybe we should say there are dog owners and then there are people who are owned by their cats!
  17. Hipsters in London often have pugs. These dogs are the victims of fashion driven selective breeding – most can barely breath.

    And the hipster owners are quite often vegan because muh animal rights.

    • Replies: @Cortes
    I used to work with a guy who looked like a pug. It was probably fate that led him to acquire a...pug.

    And the first head of NATO was “Pug” Ismay.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    Bulldogs suffer a similar fate. I have liberal cousin who has one. Their existence seems cruel.
  18. @Twinkie
    Or the number of cats/dogs. Everyone I know with multiple dogs are highly conservative (and that goes for my family too). I don’t know anyone with more than 2 cats, so I can’t say, but I’d speculate those with 3+ cats are more likely to be leftist.

    Or perhaps number of animals... though I know people with lots of chickens who are leftists.

    I’m pretty well versed in the professional show-line breeder world of doggos and yeah the more successful the breeders the more likelihood of being Republican or at minimum conservative. They’re also way more likely to be married and wealthy

    Cat ownership and political ideology probably is closer related to gender and a lack of marriage, considering my single women cat owners are almost always incredibly liberal no matter the cat number

    Though as a whole cat owners are more moderate and thus are the electoral key everyone hates. I love my cats though

  19. Still lots of people have both and the data on that is missing.

  20. @MikeatMikedotMike
    In the spirit of complete objectivity, I think it's necessary to dive straight to the source and ask a representative from both the cat side, and the dog side, what they think:

    Pinky the cat has the floor:

    https://youtu.be/okZW3_5Gr4s

    Well, his enthusiasm cannot be questioned, but now let's ask Zeus the Dog:

    https://youtu.be/i82528KGDdo

    There you have it folks, the science is settled.

    Cats are super fast and agile – that’s why they are great at hunting mice and snakes in the barn.

    I know that Siberian Husky routine all too well, having owned a few in the past. They are highly intelligent, high-energy escape artists, but are not too keen on pleasing their owners. They also shed massively and when they “blow” their coats twice a year, the whole house will be swimming in dog fur.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    Cats are wonderful if you want mice/rats/rabbits and even the occasional mole to be killed. It's odd to me that cat haters don't appreciate why we tolerated cats in the first place (rodent control). Some dogs shed horribly, no doubt about that.

    Some cats have "spraying" problems, but hell, I've lived with at least two dogs that frequently pissed in the house; we had AV equipment and furniture in the basement living room that stank like hell and was crusty from all the times it got pissed on. I know it was the dog (a sheltie) because once the dog died, fresh "coatings" that smelled like dog pee stopped appearing (we also had a cat at this time, but the basement was fine until the dog showed up). The two cats I've lived with since I've been a teenager seldom "sprayed", not until both were dying did they start to pee outside the litter box.

    The stress of dog "escapes" is very nerve-wracking. Cats, on the other hand, can wander off for many hours but will eventually reappear, and owners don't mind.
  21. @Wency
    I'd be curious what this looks like if you look at single pet owners living alone, male vs. female.

    If I know a single man living alone has pet cat(s), I regard it as shameful and disgusting. Perhaps this is a bit harsh, but my reaction is visceral and instantaneous. I would suspect such men are low-T and lean left.

    Among single women, I don't think the effect is so strong. Single women lean left anyway; I've known plenty of single women dog owners in the South who vote straight D every election.

    Single women who own "real dogs" -- i.e., 40-50+ lb. dogs, might lean more conservative, if only because they tend to be more country.

    The idea that men who own cats are low t or effeminate seems to be pretty common, but ironically, it does not seem that gay men are stereotyped as being cat lovers. They may be fond of toy dogs and poodles, but I haven’t really heard of gay men keeping pet cats. Lesbians, on the other hand, seem to be largely cat lovers:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/opinion/sunday/lesbian-cats-dating.html

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    Every jackass in the western world seems to own these parasitic creatures called dogs. Young white couples treat them like children.
    , @Red Pill Angel
    There also used to be a certain type of artsy, tweedy, closeted lesbian lady who loved her dogs, rather like gay men and their little dogs, except the lesbian ladies liked Rottweilers. The modern cat lady is often a disappointed hetersexual with neurotic hoarding tendencies.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    Sample is small, but the lesbians in the sample are heavy cat and dog owners.
  22. @EliteCommInc.
    I am conservative I grew up with dogs, love dogs.

    But I am owned by 7 cats, 5 down from 12 who all lived healthy long lives. Owned is more accurate for any pet human relationship sharing quarters.

    Had I not been prolife, I would be owned 1 cat.

    Van-D, I love you man, but you depress me a little more with each comment.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    I am unclear what Van-D means.


    Assuming your disgust is to my co-habitation with cats. Here's some consolation, I was raised with dogs - love'm. Where I live is not my home and there is no fence or I would have a Bull Mastiff running the running the place.
  23. @Wency
    I'd be curious what this looks like if you look at single pet owners living alone, male vs. female.

    If I know a single man living alone has pet cat(s), I regard it as shameful and disgusting. Perhaps this is a bit harsh, but my reaction is visceral and instantaneous. I would suspect such men are low-T and lean left.

    Among single women, I don't think the effect is so strong. Single women lean left anyway; I've known plenty of single women dog owners in the South who vote straight D every election.

    Single women who own "real dogs" -- i.e., 40-50+ lb. dogs, might lean more conservative, if only because they tend to be more country.

    If I know a single man living alone has pet cat(s), I regard it as shameful and disgusting. Perhaps this is a bit harsh, but my reaction is visceral and instantaneous. I would suspect such men are low-T and lean left.

    You see, Van-D, that’s what I’m trying to say…

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    Yes, urbanized single men fawning over their doggies sets the standard for masculinity.
  24. @Rosie
    Great. Infinity cat lady jokes.

    http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/incredulous-cat-human-your-tail-is-on-backwards.jpg

    That is funny. Recently, someone was telling me that their cat spied on them in the shower. I was surprised because cats don’t love water, but now I see it is a meme.

  25. @Mr McKenna

    Dog owners are about 35% more likely to be conservative than to be liberal
     
    Ehh...you say 'conservative' I say 'sane'...

    The crazy cat ladies of yore have been replaced by Boomer/early GenX crazy dog ladies. Nothing creepier than a middle age woman fixated on her doggy.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    I regularly cross paths with exactly such a woman when I take our family dog on walks along a bike trail by our house. The dog is *always* wearing a sweater and often has mittens (or whatever they're called) on its feet.
  26. @Indiana Jack
    The idea that men who own cats are low t or effeminate seems to be pretty common, but ironically, it does not seem that gay men are stereotyped as being cat lovers. They may be fond of toy dogs and poodles, but I haven't really heard of gay men keeping pet cats. Lesbians, on the other hand, seem to be largely cat lovers:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/opinion/sunday/lesbian-cats-dating.html

    Every jackass in the western world seems to own these parasitic creatures called dogs. Young white couples treat them like children.

    • Replies: @216
    A good feint would be to persuade urbanites to put punitive "climate taxes" on pet ownership.

    Obviously underclass PeeOhCee would never face this code enforcement. But if you had to pay a significant amount per year for a pet, we might have more "unintended pregnancies" among younger white UMC urbanites.
    , @iffen
    Every jackass in the western world seems to own these parasitic creatures called dogs. Young white couples treat them like children.

    Best part: watching them going around scooping the poo into plastic bags. Hey! I thought plastic was fascist or something.
  27. @Truth

    If I know a single man living alone has pet cat(s), I regard it as shameful and disgusting. Perhaps this is a bit harsh, but my reaction is visceral and instantaneous. I would suspect such men are low-T and lean left.
     
    You see, Van-D, that's what I'm trying to say...

    Yes, urbanized single men fawning over their doggies sets the standard for masculinity.

    • Replies: @Wency
    I don't live in a dense area, but among single guys I've known, having a dog is often a signal that you have your life together and that you enjoy the outdoors. Such men normally have a larger breed.

    Yeah, there's the stereotype of the fussy gay guy who puts bows in his poodle's hair, but I haven't encountered that creature in real life. Maybe if I lived in NYC or San Fran.

    My dog is a real chick magnet. Big, powerful, friendly, and beautiful. Helped me meet my wife.
  28. @Anatoly Karlin
    Least surprising finding ever, but good work on validating stereotypes as usual!

    I love both dogs and cats.

    However, no way I am ever going to live with a cat, as I'd have to be on antihistamines all the time. It was problematic when I was younger and since then its become worse.

    That’s interesting allergic to cat dander, but not dogs.

    • Replies: @Wency
    I'm in the same situation. It's quite common. Very different proteins in the two.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    Isn't that pretty common?
  29. @Truth
    Van-D, I love you man, but you depress me a little more with each comment.

    I am unclear what Van-D means.

    Assuming your disgust is to my co-habitation with cats. Here’s some consolation, I was raised with dogs – love’m. Where I live is not my home and there is no fence or I would have a Bull Mastiff running the running the place.

    • Replies: @Truth
    Oh, I just imagine you looking, dressing and acting like an excellent fictional character, Mr. Van Driessen. Not that there's anything wrong with that, the world needs more Van-D's

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTVzSq81wCs

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzKO9QlopPE
  30. @Indiana Jack
    The idea that men who own cats are low t or effeminate seems to be pretty common, but ironically, it does not seem that gay men are stereotyped as being cat lovers. They may be fond of toy dogs and poodles, but I haven't really heard of gay men keeping pet cats. Lesbians, on the other hand, seem to be largely cat lovers:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/opinion/sunday/lesbian-cats-dating.html

    There also used to be a certain type of artsy, tweedy, closeted lesbian lady who loved her dogs, rather like gay men and their little dogs, except the lesbian ladies liked Rottweilers. The modern cat lady is often a disappointed hetersexual with neurotic hoarding tendencies.

  31. Cat Ladies are a core demographic of the Democratic coalition. Along with felons, illegal aliens, and sixteen year olds.

  32. @EliteCommInc.
    That's interesting allergic to cat dander, but not dogs.

    I’m in the same situation. It’s quite common. Very different proteins in the two.

  33. 216 says:
    @SunBakedSuburb
    Every jackass in the western world seems to own these parasitic creatures called dogs. Young white couples treat them like children.

    A good feint would be to persuade urbanites to put punitive “climate taxes” on pet ownership.

    Obviously underclass PeeOhCee would never face this code enforcement. But if you had to pay a significant amount per year for a pet, we might have more “unintended pregnancies” among younger white UMC urbanites.

    • LOL: Rosie
  34. @SunBakedSuburb
    Yes, urbanized single men fawning over their doggies sets the standard for masculinity.

    I don’t live in a dense area, but among single guys I’ve known, having a dog is often a signal that you have your life together and that you enjoy the outdoors. Such men normally have a larger breed.

    Yeah, there’s the stereotype of the fussy gay guy who puts bows in his poodle’s hair, but I haven’t encountered that creature in real life. Maybe if I lived in NYC or San Fran.

    My dog is a real chick magnet. Big, powerful, friendly, and beautiful. Helped me meet my wife.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    I don’t live in a dense area, but among single guys I’ve known, having a dog is often a signal that you have your life together and that you enjoy the outdoors. Such men normally have a larger breed.
     
    It's also a signal of a gentle and empathic nature. I have argued elsewhere that the ability to bond with a dog may provide such a survival advantage that it allowed some less aggressive, but more intelligent and sensitive men to compete for resources and mates. In that sense, the domestication of dogs may have shaped who we are. For our part, women who preferred such men men would also enjoy the advantages of that. Of course, this is all speculation on my part.
    , @Mr McKenna
    My dog came along as a stray, starving and near death. According to several of the guys here apparently I should have let her die, lest it reflect poorly upon my masculinity. This doesn't speak well of AE's readership IMHO.
  35. @Wency
    I don't live in a dense area, but among single guys I've known, having a dog is often a signal that you have your life together and that you enjoy the outdoors. Such men normally have a larger breed.

    Yeah, there's the stereotype of the fussy gay guy who puts bows in his poodle's hair, but I haven't encountered that creature in real life. Maybe if I lived in NYC or San Fran.

    My dog is a real chick magnet. Big, powerful, friendly, and beautiful. Helped me meet my wife.

    I don’t live in a dense area, but among single guys I’ve known, having a dog is often a signal that you have your life together and that you enjoy the outdoors. Such men normally have a larger breed.

    It’s also a signal of a gentle and empathic nature. I have argued elsewhere that the ability to bond with a dog may provide such a survival advantage that it allowed some less aggressive, but more intelligent and sensitive men to compete for resources and mates. In that sense, the domestication of dogs may have shaped who we are. For our part, women who preferred such men men would also enjoy the advantages of that. Of course, this is all speculation on my part.

    • Agree: Mr McKenna
    • Replies: @iffen
    It’s also a signal of a gentle and empathic nature.

    BS, steaming pile.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    A pretty good window into a person's soul is to watch how he interacts with animals, especially if he genuinely doesn't think anyone is watching him.
  36. @Rosie
    Great. Infinity cat lady jokes.

    http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/incredulous-cat-human-your-tail-is-on-backwards.jpg

    Well, you asked for it:

  37. @EliteCommInc.
    I am unclear what Van-D means.


    Assuming your disgust is to my co-habitation with cats. Here's some consolation, I was raised with dogs - love'm. Where I live is not my home and there is no fence or I would have a Bull Mastiff running the running the place.

    Oh, I just imagine you looking, dressing and acting like an excellent fictional character, Mr. Van Driessen. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, the world needs more Van-D’s

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    Fortunately,

    I am unfamiliar with any of the references.

  38. I think you can see the stereotype even better if you look at the four possible cases for dog/cat ownership. In case it helps, some R code after the MORE. You can probably do even better.

    One thing that strikes me about the data is how few people have neither a dog nor a cat. It is interesting to look at actual counts as well as percentages because the dog only case dominates.

    [MORE]

    datasub <- data[!is.na(data$dog) & !is.na(data$polviews),]
    datasub$mydog <- factor(datasub$dog, labels=c("nodog", "dog"))
    datasub$mycat <- factor(datasub$cat, labels=c("nocat", "cat"))
    datasub$mydogcat <- with(datasub, interaction(mydog, mycat), drop = TRUE )
    datasub$mypolviews <- factor( c( 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3 )[ datasub$polviews ],
    levels = 1:3,
    labels = c( 'liberal' , 'moderate' , 'conservative'))

    require(ggplot2)
    #ggplot(datasub,aes(x=polviews)) + geom_bar()+facet_grid(~mydogcat)
    ggplot(datasub,aes(x=mypolviews)) + geom_bar()+facet_grid(~mydogcat)

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    The module starts by asking respondents whether or not they have pets, and then excludes those who say they do not from the subsequent questions. About 60% say they have a pet of some kind, so close to half have dogs and around 15% have cats (going off memory from yesterday so these are rough estimates).
  39. I keep chickens. They make great pets, and if they fail as pets, they make great coq au vin.

    I wonder how us bird and fish people fare politically.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    When I was a kid, I kept a fresh water 10 gallon aquarium ---


    Very very cool at night. The dogs were bored and never bothered. Easy care for the rare cleaning -- self sustaining eco system and great way to learn about other life forms. That was a neat project.


    I suspect that birds are messy . . .

    , @EliteCommInc.
    When I was a kid, I kept a fresh water 10 gallon aquarium ---


    Very very cool at night. The dogs were bored and never bothered. Easy to care for, save the rare cleaning -- self sustaining eco system and great way to learn about other life forms. That was a neat project.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    Good to hear from you, man!

    Small samples, but bird owners are not liberal:

    Liberal - 6%
    Moderate - 69%
    Conservative - 25%

    Fish:

    Liberal - 16%
    Moderate - 53%
    Conservative - 32%

    Interesting that liberals, with putatively high openness to experience, are pretty conventional in their pet choices.
  40. @jimmyriddle
    Hipsters in London often have pugs. These dogs are the victims of fashion driven selective breeding - most can barely breath.

    And the hipster owners are quite often vegan because muh animal rights.

    I used to work with a guy who looked like a pug. It was probably fate that led him to acquire a…pug.

    And the first head of NATO was “Pug” Ismay.

  41. @Rosie

    I don’t live in a dense area, but among single guys I’ve known, having a dog is often a signal that you have your life together and that you enjoy the outdoors. Such men normally have a larger breed.
     
    It's also a signal of a gentle and empathic nature. I have argued elsewhere that the ability to bond with a dog may provide such a survival advantage that it allowed some less aggressive, but more intelligent and sensitive men to compete for resources and mates. In that sense, the domestication of dogs may have shaped who we are. For our part, women who preferred such men men would also enjoy the advantages of that. Of course, this is all speculation on my part.

    It’s also a signal of a gentle and empathic nature.

    BS, steaming pile.

  42. @SunBakedSuburb
    Every jackass in the western world seems to own these parasitic creatures called dogs. Young white couples treat them like children.

    Every jackass in the western world seems to own these parasitic creatures called dogs. Young white couples treat them like children.

    Best part: watching them going around scooping the poo into plastic bags. Hey! I thought plastic was fascist or something.

  43. It would be more interesting to know about the political views of those degenerates who keep snakes or lizards as pets.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    Laugh
    , @Audacious Epigone
    Liberal - 21%
    Moderate - 59%
    Conservative - 21%

    Very small sample size though, just 29, fewer than birds or fish even.
    , @Toronto Russian
    What's wrong with that? They're surely kept for aesthetics, not for companionship. Like a little more interesting house plants.
  44. @Wency
    I don't live in a dense area, but among single guys I've known, having a dog is often a signal that you have your life together and that you enjoy the outdoors. Such men normally have a larger breed.

    Yeah, there's the stereotype of the fussy gay guy who puts bows in his poodle's hair, but I haven't encountered that creature in real life. Maybe if I lived in NYC or San Fran.

    My dog is a real chick magnet. Big, powerful, friendly, and beautiful. Helped me meet my wife.

    My dog came along as a stray, starving and near death. According to several of the guys here apparently I should have let her die, lest it reflect poorly upon my masculinity. This doesn’t speak well of AE’s readership IMHO.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    I support your rescue and no one who knows me sees as the sensitive type.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    My mother did the same with her most beloved dog growing up. He came limping into the backyard covered in ticks. She spent hours removing them, bathing the dog, feeding it, then it slept for a full day (supposedly) and now it lives on in her mind as the most wonderful creature to have ever walked the earth.

    Western women need to get back to caring for canine refugees instead of refugees who hate canines.
    , @Twinkie
    My family and I have adopted several stray/“rescue” dogs over the years.
    , @Stan d Mute

    I should have let her die, lest it reflect poorly upon my masculinity
     
    Theres nothing masculine about allowing a dog to suffer. Perhaps you should have euthanized the animal, but small dogs are often very useful for alarming their humans and/or larger dogs that can do more than bite ankles. I think what others who have commented about the subject meant was the type of “man” who mollycoddles a pathetic barking cat. There is indeed nothing masculine about a “man” with a barking cat on his lap sharing a bowl of ice cream watching Sex in the City reruns.
  45. @Truth
    Oh, I just imagine you looking, dressing and acting like an excellent fictional character, Mr. Van Driessen. Not that there's anything wrong with that, the world needs more Van-D's

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTVzSq81wCs

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzKO9QlopPE

    Fortunately,

    I am unfamiliar with any of the references.

  46. @Mr McKenna
    My dog came along as a stray, starving and near death. According to several of the guys here apparently I should have let her die, lest it reflect poorly upon my masculinity. This doesn't speak well of AE's readership IMHO.

    I support your rescue and no one who knows me sees as the sensitive type.

  47. @German_reader
    It would be more interesting to know about the political views of those degenerates who keep snakes or lizards as pets.

    Laugh

  48. @Spike Gomes
    I keep chickens. They make great pets, and if they fail as pets, they make great coq au vin.

    I wonder how us bird and fish people fare politically.

    When I was a kid, I kept a fresh water 10 gallon aquarium —

    Very very cool at night. The dogs were bored and never bothered. Easy care for the rare cleaning — self sustaining eco system and great way to learn about other life forms. That was a neat project.

    I suspect that birds are messy . . .

    • Replies: @Spike Gomes
    Your suspicions are right. I spend 10-20 minutes a day with the hose and broom alone. They also eat more than you'd expect as well.
  49. @songbird
    I wonder how much cat ownership might be a proxy for urban living.

    I bet there's a spectrum on dog breeds and size of dogs. Smaller dogs or real fancy breeds => increased liberal ownership. Possibly differing sex ratios (for the dogs) too. Conservatives => more male. Probably a difference in neutering.

    I bet the people who own both a cat and dog are significantly more conservative. Probably a proxy for nuclear family.

    For those who own both:

    Liberal — 21.3%
    Moderate — 48.0%
    Conservative — 30.7%

    Definitely not liberal.

    • Replies: @songbird
    Those are interesting numbers. I expected higher conservative, if I'm honest, but it's nice to be half-validated.
  50. @Twinkie
    Or the number of cats/dogs. Everyone I know with multiple dogs are highly conservative (and that goes for my family too). I don’t know anyone with more than 2 cats, so I can’t say, but I’d speculate those with 3+ cats are more likely to be leftist.

    Or perhaps number of animals... though I know people with lots of chickens who are leftists.

    I know people with lots of chickens who are leftists.

    The image of an idyllic farmstead in Vermont comes to my mind.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    The image of an idyllic farmstead in Vermont comes to my mind.
     
    They live in Northern California and are tech millionaires.
    , @Tony
    The image of a puerto rican in the bronx comes to mind.
  51. @Spike Gomes
    I keep chickens. They make great pets, and if they fail as pets, they make great coq au vin.

    I wonder how us bird and fish people fare politically.

    When I was a kid, I kept a fresh water 10 gallon aquarium —

    Very very cool at night. The dogs were bored and never bothered. Easy to care for, save the rare cleaning — self sustaining eco system and great way to learn about other life forms. That was a neat project.

  52. @neutral
    I would be interesting if this could show the overlap with the amount of people with pets and a family and those with pets and no family. The stereotype of the cat lady means that most of them are in the liberal section, but I am not so sure if this is true.

    There’s not much evidence here for the spinster cat queen. 52% of cat owners are married compared to 55% of dog owners.

  53. @YetAnotherAnon
    Is there an idiots guide to using GSS? For example, I think marital status and number of children by cat and dog ownership would be interesting. Maybe just for people 30-60, white-only to remove our old friend "Rachel Confounds".

    Do people with both dogs and cats appear on both sides of that graph? If so I imagine "cat-only" vs "dog (may also have cat)" would show greater split. Plenty of overlap between "cat-lady" and "wine aunt" demographics.

    Not that I know of, but I’ll put a post in the queue to explain it.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    Ta. I'd be interested to know how you did it, step by step. Not that I want to steal your secret sauce ;-)

    I was hoping the final query (queries?) that produced the data would be visible in SQL, as that's what I mostly do for a living - because then I could hopefully tweak the SQL directly. But I couldn't find an option to display the query in the raw language, whatever that language be.
  54. @MikeatMikedotMike
    In the spirit of complete objectivity, I think it's necessary to dive straight to the source and ask a representative from both the cat side, and the dog side, what they think:

    Pinky the cat has the floor:

    https://youtu.be/okZW3_5Gr4s

    Well, his enthusiasm cannot be questioned, but now let's ask Zeus the Dog:

    https://youtu.be/i82528KGDdo

    There you have it folks, the science is settled.

    Cats, feral creatures that they are, can only be tamed, never truly domesticated!

    • Agree: Twinkie
    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    I hate to be so dog gone contrary. But that is not necessarily true. Of the feryls cats we rescued all but two failed to be fully domesticated. And that includes a huge orange cat that would wonder into out garage and whom became a beloved best pal and ruler of the joint. He arrived taut and muscular grew so comfy he got fat and developed diabetes, He recovered as we learned how to respond, but we have photos with him imitating me asleep or maybe I was imitating him.

    Not only were nearly all of our cats domesticated, the mother who arrived pregnant actually taught her kittens to use the litter. that really happened . . . we've learned a lot from our cats and we are careful not to accept everything Vets say on the subject.

  55. @Anatoly Karlin
    Least surprising finding ever, but good work on validating stereotypes as usual!

    I love both dogs and cats.

    However, no way I am ever going to live with a cat, as I'd have to be on antihistamines all the time. It was problematic when I was younger and since then its become worse.

    I could write exactly that, except the part about it being even worse now–I don’t chance it anymore because it was brutal when I was younger. I’m probably more of a dog person at this point, but that could just be sour grapes.

  56. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    I am not entirely sure if I am allergic to cats or not, but when I stayed in an old, slightly moldy, house, complete with a cat, I slept about as much as a prisoner of Soviet state security. So much sneezing.

    A deep breath from a cushion covered in cat fur will settle the question for you, believe me!

  57. @obwandiyag
    It has been empirically verified that all pet owners are assholes.

    Blacks and other genetic racial inferiors are notoriously cruel to animals,

    even companion animals like dogs and cats. Obwandiyag

    should aliyah to Wakandaland where

    it can make love to Ebola-chan.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Schoolmarm disapproves of "genetic racial inferiors". Don't make me give you the Vox Day treatment, pal!
    , @Anon
    Before Whites turned gay, they didn't treat animals as surrogate children and consider the treatment of animals to be some sort of aspect or feature of their identities. They were cool and not gay, and did things like fox tossing and cat burning for fun.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_tossing

    Fox tossing (German: Fuchsprellen) was a popular competitive blood sport in parts of Europe in the 17th and 18th centuries, which involved throwing live foxes and other animals high into the air...The result was often fatal for the tossed animal. Augustus II the Strong, the King of Poland and Elector of Saxony, held a famous tossing contest in Dresden at which 647 foxes, 533 hares, 34 badgers and 21 wildcats were tossed and killed.[3] Augustus himself participated, reportedly demonstrating his strength by holding the end of his sling by just one finger, with two of the strongest men in his court on the other end. Other rulers also participated in the sport. The Swedish envoy Esaias Pufendorf, witnessing a fox-tossing contest held in Vienna in March 1672, noted in his diary his surprise at seeing the Holy Roman Emperor Leopold I enthusiastically joining the court dwarfs and boys in clubbing to death the injured animals; he commented that it was remarkable to see the emperor having "small boys and fools as comrades, [which] was to my eyes a little alien from the imperial gravity."
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_burning

    Cat burning was a form of entertainment in France prior to the 1800s. In this form of entertainment, people would gather dozens of cats in a net and hoist them high into the air from a special bundle onto a bonfire causing death through the effects of combustion, or effects of exposure to extreme heat.
     
    , @Stan d Mute

    Blacks and other genetic racial inferiors are notoriously cruel to animals,
     
    First, it’s highly likely that we co-evolved with our animals as we domesticated them.

    Second, it’s not at all clear that negroes are inferior from an evolutionary standpoint. They’re less intelligent (as we define it) and empathetic, more prone to chaotic violence and disease, but Nature cares only for survival and nothing whatsoever for human constructs like civilization, architecture, and science. In that regard, consider that today negroes are objects of adoration and adulation in Europe and America, that they’ve trained white people to feed, clothe, and house them while providing unimaginable luxuries like air conditioning and plumbing. They’re granted legal privileges well beyond those given to whites with mandated discrimination in their favor as well as forgiveness of criminality. With the forecast for over 4 Billion Africans by 2100 and sub-replacement white birth rates everywhere, it’s hardly inconceivable that whites will go extinct and negroes shall inherit the earth. That is pretty good evidence of negro superiority.
  58. @Red Pill Angel
    Well, I've always owned a cat (never more than one), and I'm now to the right of Attila the Hun. But I had a family. I like the independence of cats, and their semi-wildness; I've never had a completely indoors cat and I think it's wrong, given their nature. I do bell my cat so she won't eat bluebirds. But she still catches field mice.

    My take on leftist cat ladies, who do appear to be a real thing, is that they don't want kids, but they need to prove somehow that they are "empathetic" (buzz-word of the day), so they start piling on the cats and smothering them with weird expressions of love. What puzzles me is that they always want them confined inside. I've run into a few superlib "cat people" who are completely insane, devoted to "saving" feral cats by keeping them enclosed in filthy garage zoos. My husband was out running one evening, and came home to find two of them with a pet carrier in our driveway, attempting to lure our cat inside with food. He just stood there and said, "What are you doing?" They told him they were rescuing the poor cat. My husband said, well, please don't do that, she belongs to us, and with that the rescue ladies scurried off into the darkness. Maybe they rescued a squirrel on the way home. That's a thing, too.

    It's obvious from jokes that cats represent femininity, and dogs masculinity, but then why would feminists be so obsessed with neutered cats? (Yes, I neutered my cat, but I'm not obsessed with neutering every cat in the world). My take is that they deeply fear femininity, which is at its core aligned with nature, and wish to "de-claw" it. And neuter it. They want everything neutered.

    One cat-dog ownership ‘confound’ is that cats are simply less work than dogs. They really are easier for single people to take care of, especially those who travel. If you’re gone for a couple of days, the cats will be fine, but the dogs have to be arranged for.

  59. @Wency
    I'd be curious what this looks like if you look at single pet owners living alone, male vs. female.

    If I know a single man living alone has pet cat(s), I regard it as shameful and disgusting. Perhaps this is a bit harsh, but my reaction is visceral and instantaneous. I would suspect such men are low-T and lean left.

    Among single women, I don't think the effect is so strong. Single women lean left anyway; I've known plenty of single women dog owners in the South who vote straight D every election.

    Single women who own "real dogs" -- i.e., 40-50+ lb. dogs, might lean more conservative, if only because they tend to be more country.

    Perspicacious. Small sample size but among cat-owning single men, 45% are liberal, 42% moderate, and just 13% conservative.

  60. @36 ulster
    I was surprised that the divide was not more pronounced, and that self-described moderates were in a statistical tie. BTW, the missus and I are conservative--AND are cat owners--or staff members, if you will.

    Heh, maybe we should say there are dog owners and then there are people who are owned by their cats!

  61. I am a conservative and definitely not a dog person. I don’t like their barking or protective instinct. I suppose if a dog is really docile and never barks I might like it.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    You don't like its protective instinct?
    , @Twinkie

    I am a conservative and definitely not a dog person. I don’t like their barking or protective instinct.
     
    Whaaaa? I love my dogs, but their primary job is to warn of strangers on my property and to serve as a layer of my home defense. In other word, they help me to conserve my life and those of my family members. There is nothing more conservative than that.
  62. @jimmyriddle
    Hipsters in London often have pugs. These dogs are the victims of fashion driven selective breeding - most can barely breath.

    And the hipster owners are quite often vegan because muh animal rights.

    Bulldogs suffer a similar fate. I have liberal cousin who has one. Their existence seems cruel.

  63. @Indiana Jack
    The idea that men who own cats are low t or effeminate seems to be pretty common, but ironically, it does not seem that gay men are stereotyped as being cat lovers. They may be fond of toy dogs and poodles, but I haven't really heard of gay men keeping pet cats. Lesbians, on the other hand, seem to be largely cat lovers:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/opinion/sunday/lesbian-cats-dating.html

    Sample is small, but the lesbians in the sample are heavy cat and dog owners.

  64. @SunBakedSuburb
    The crazy cat ladies of yore have been replaced by Boomer/early GenX crazy dog ladies. Nothing creepier than a middle age woman fixated on her doggy.

    I regularly cross paths with exactly such a woman when I take our family dog on walks along a bike trail by our house. The dog is *always* wearing a sweater and often has mittens (or whatever they’re called) on its feet.

  65. @EliteCommInc.
    That's interesting allergic to cat dander, but not dogs.

    Isn’t that pretty common?

  66. @Rosie

    I don’t live in a dense area, but among single guys I’ve known, having a dog is often a signal that you have your life together and that you enjoy the outdoors. Such men normally have a larger breed.
     
    It's also a signal of a gentle and empathic nature. I have argued elsewhere that the ability to bond with a dog may provide such a survival advantage that it allowed some less aggressive, but more intelligent and sensitive men to compete for resources and mates. In that sense, the domestication of dogs may have shaped who we are. For our part, women who preferred such men men would also enjoy the advantages of that. Of course, this is all speculation on my part.

    A pretty good window into a person’s soul is to watch how he interacts with animals, especially if he genuinely doesn’t think anyone is watching him.

    • Agree: Trevor H., Rosie
    • Disagree: iffen
  67. res says:
    @YetAnotherAnon
    Is there an idiots guide to using GSS? For example, I think marital status and number of children by cat and dog ownership would be interesting. Maybe just for people 30-60, white-only to remove our old friend "Rachel Confounds".

    Do people with both dogs and cats appear on both sides of that graph? If so I imagine "cat-only" vs "dog (may also have cat)" would show greater split. Plenty of overlap between "cat-lady" and "wine aunt" demographics.

    Is there an idiots guide to using GSS?

    If you use R, this is a start: https://www.r-bloggers.com/analyze-the-general-social-survey-gss-with-r/

    I found this thread from Emil useful: https://openpsych.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=150

    AE’s posts are an excellent resource because he usually gives the exact variables used as well as discussing his transformations. Plus asking and answering enough good questions that he covers a decent selection of interesting variables.

    Stata data (I have found this works fairly well in R) for the GSS is available at http://gss.norc.org/get-the-data/stata
    Get the version with the codebook so you can figure out what the variables mean.

    P.S. AE, looking forward to your queued post.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Thanks. My walkthrough will be for the HSDA site out of Berkeley, one that doesn't require ownership of any statistical packages.
  68. @res
    I think you can see the stereotype even better if you look at the four possible cases for dog/cat ownership. In case it helps, some R code after the MORE. You can probably do even better.

    One thing that strikes me about the data is how few people have neither a dog nor a cat. It is interesting to look at actual counts as well as percentages because the dog only case dominates.



    datasub <- data[!is.na(data$dog) & !is.na(data$polviews),]
    datasub$mydog <- factor(datasub$dog, labels=c("nodog", "dog"))
    datasub$mycat <- factor(datasub$cat, labels=c("nocat", "cat"))
    datasub$mydogcat <- with(datasub, interaction(mydog, mycat), drop = TRUE )
    datasub$mypolviews <- factor( c( 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3 )[ datasub$polviews ],
    levels = 1:3,
    labels = c( 'liberal' , 'moderate' , 'conservative'))

    require(ggplot2)
    #ggplot(datasub,aes(x=polviews)) + geom_bar()+facet_grid(~mydogcat)
    ggplot(datasub,aes(x=mypolviews)) + geom_bar()+facet_grid(~mydogcat)

    The module starts by asking respondents whether or not they have pets, and then excludes those who say they do not from the subsequent questions. About 60% say they have a pet of some kind, so close to half have dogs and around 15% have cats (going off memory from yesterday so these are rough estimates).

    • Replies: @res
    Thanks! That makes much more sense.
  69. @Spike Gomes
    I keep chickens. They make great pets, and if they fail as pets, they make great coq au vin.

    I wonder how us bird and fish people fare politically.

    Good to hear from you, man!

    Small samples, but bird owners are not liberal:

    Liberal – 6%
    Moderate – 69%
    Conservative – 25%

    Fish:

    Liberal – 16%
    Moderate – 53%
    Conservative – 32%

    Interesting that liberals, with putatively high openness to experience, are pretty conventional in their pet choices.

    • Replies: @Spike Gomes
    Yeah, I still read all your posts, but I don't have time to post much anymore. Between my personal project to read as much of the Western Canon as possible and my chickens, my online time is minimal.

    It does kind of make sense that bird owners would lean conservative as well as fish owners. You really do have to take full responsibility for the far larger amount of time and money you need for upkeep. There aren't really many vets who specialize in it either, so you need to really figure out and do things independently. I've had to diagnose and treat medical problems all by myself. Let me put it this way, after you've had to put eyedrops into a half-feral rooster, hold it down and wait for the parasitic worms to come out from behind the eyes, then pull out the stragglers, you realize you can do a lot of things you would have noped out of earlier.

    It's gross, time and money consuming, but I got more eggs than my entire extended family can use and meat if I ever need it. It's just a really satisfying hobby/pet ownership for me. My only regret is I never got into it earlier.
  70. @German_reader
    It would be more interesting to know about the political views of those degenerates who keep snakes or lizards as pets.

    Liberal – 21%
    Moderate – 59%
    Conservative – 21%

    Very small sample size though, just 29, fewer than birds or fish even.

  71. @Mr McKenna
    My dog came along as a stray, starving and near death. According to several of the guys here apparently I should have let her die, lest it reflect poorly upon my masculinity. This doesn't speak well of AE's readership IMHO.

    My mother did the same with her most beloved dog growing up. He came limping into the backyard covered in ticks. She spent hours removing them, bathing the dog, feeding it, then it slept for a full day (supposedly) and now it lives on in her mind as the most wonderful creature to have ever walked the earth.

    Western women need to get back to caring for canine refugees instead of refugees who hate canines.

    • Agree: Pat Kittle, Stan d Mute
    • Replies: @songbird
    They actually make stuffed dogs and cats that have fake fleas and ticks on them. I think when you take them off, they don't go back on and you're supposed to buy more. I'm probably paranoid, but I wonder if they consulted evolutionary theorists to figure out how they could hijack the deeper part of the brain, based on ape behavior.
    , @Twinkie

    Western women need to get back to caring for canine refugees instead of refugees who hate canines.
     
    Hear hear!
    , @Trevor H.
    Oh yeah! Don't get me started on how third world people treat dogs! Heck, animals in general. More evidence of how we're undoing everything that made our society great. Arrrgh.
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    In the coach park outside the Taj Mahal, surely the biggest tourist draw in all India, we saw a dying puppy, feebly moving as birds pecked at its eyes. We shooed the birds away, but what else could we do, pretty sure our 'sirdar' would have had a fit if we'd tried to get it on our bus (and there's a thing called rabies). Not sure if there's an Indian RSPCA.
    , @Toronto Russian

    My mother did the same with her most beloved dog growing up. He came limping into the backyard covered in ticks. She spent hours removing them, bathing the dog, feeding it, then it slept for a full day (supposedly) and now it lives on in her mind as the most wonderful creature to have ever walked the earth.
     
    It could have rabies though. Parents shouldn't allow kids to touch unknown animals, they can infect you even with a lick not a bite. My grandfather was bitten by a neighbor's dog and underwent 40 rabies shots in a hospital (the modern treatment is only 5-6 shots). The dog turned out to be healthy, but you never know.

    A technical issue: it takes hours for new comments to load. Currently this page has only 87 that I can see, and the main page says there's 93.
    , @Wency
    Well agreed.

    A seldom-mentioned aspect of the Muslim conquest of Persia: the Muslims would taunt the Zoroastrians (who were quite fond of dogs) by inflicting horrific cruelties on the animals.

    An anecdote from some years ago: my parents, who had a 15 lb. yappy dog, once invited a very mild-mannered Indian couple inside to look at a piece of furniture during a garage sale. They didn't think to warn the Indians of the dog, but when the dog started yapping at them, the couple reacted as if my parents had failed to mention their pet tiger.

    "What is it going to do? Get it under control!" the woman shrieked as her husband scooped up their child (who easily weighed 4x the dog).

    I was trying to figure out if they were being serious or if this was some elaborate joke. I finally picked up the little dog but it kept yapping, and the Indians quickly left our house, got into their car, and sped off.

    Meanwhile, the 50 lb. children of my friends will happily play with my 70 lb. dog. It's quite remarkable how vast the cultural distance can be on this matter.
  72. @Haxo Angmark
    Blacks and other genetic racial inferiors are notoriously cruel to animals,

    even companion animals like dogs and cats. Obwandiyag

    should aliyah to Wakandaland where

    it can make love to Ebola-chan.

    Schoolmarm disapproves of “genetic racial inferiors”. Don’t make me give you the Vox Day treatment, pal!

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute

    Don’t make me give you the Vox Day treatment
     
    What? You’re going to transform into a smug sanctimonious fag talentless hack writer with pathetically thin skin? A pale Ta’Neezy Coates?
  73. @res

    Is there an idiots guide to using GSS?
     
    If you use R, this is a start: https://www.r-bloggers.com/analyze-the-general-social-survey-gss-with-r/

    I found this thread from Emil useful: https://openpsych.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=150

    AE's posts are an excellent resource because he usually gives the exact variables used as well as discussing his transformations. Plus asking and answering enough good questions that he covers a decent selection of interesting variables.

    Stata data (I have found this works fairly well in R) for the GSS is available at http://gss.norc.org/get-the-data/stata
    Get the version with the codebook so you can figure out what the variables mean.

    P.S. AE, looking forward to your queued post.

    Thanks. My walkthrough will be for the HSDA site out of Berkeley, one that doesn’t require ownership of any statistical packages.

  74. @Jay Fink
    I am a conservative and definitely not a dog person. I don't like their barking or protective instinct. I suppose if a dog is really docile and never barks I might like it.

    You don’t like its protective instinct?

    • Replies: @Jay Fink
    I don't like how dogs smell fear. The badass who is going to rob your home has no fear. People who show fear tend to be kind and harmless.
  75. @Audacious Epigone
    For those who own both:

    Liberal -- 21.3%
    Moderate -- 48.0%
    Conservative -- 30.7%

    Definitely not liberal.

    Those are interesting numbers. I expected higher conservative, if I’m honest, but it’s nice to be half-validated.

  76. Did you ever consider that it could be a case of “opposites attract?”

    I love dogs (but not a dog mom type). However, if I consider my personality, I’m much more like a cat. Independant, quiet, observant, thoughtful, at times cold, and standoffish. Therefore, why would I want a cat? It would be like having another me.

    Dogs (real dogs) are warm, garrulous, brash, loyal, friendly, but also dumber and less calculating. Seems to me that the dog is the ying to my yang. It balances me out.

    This is just what I’ve thought about myself. I’ve always had a natural aversion to cats, and a warmness towards dogs. This theory explains that.

    I don’t know if the “cat” personality is necessarily more representative of conservatives though, I know plenty of loud and annoying Boomercons. But if the cat traits are more conservative, and people want the opposite animal, then it would explain why dog owners are more conservative.

    Just some thoughts.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    "Independant, quiet, observant, thoughtful, at times cold, and standoffish. Therefore, why would I want a cat? It would be like having another me."



    The above all depends on the cat.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    Dogs are more intelligent than cats, I think. Being able to follow commands is a pretty good proxy for intelligence in animals.
  77. @Mr McKenna
    My dog came along as a stray, starving and near death. According to several of the guys here apparently I should have let her die, lest it reflect poorly upon my masculinity. This doesn't speak well of AE's readership IMHO.

    My family and I have adopted several stray/“rescue” dogs over the years.

  78. @Audacious Epigone
    I know people with lots of chickens who are leftists.

    The image of an idyllic farmstead in Vermont comes to my mind.

    The image of an idyllic farmstead in Vermont comes to my mind.

    They live in Northern California and are tech millionaires.

  79. @Audacious Epigone
    My mother did the same with her most beloved dog growing up. He came limping into the backyard covered in ticks. She spent hours removing them, bathing the dog, feeding it, then it slept for a full day (supposedly) and now it lives on in her mind as the most wonderful creature to have ever walked the earth.

    Western women need to get back to caring for canine refugees instead of refugees who hate canines.

    They actually make stuffed dogs and cats that have fake fleas and ticks on them. I think when you take them off, they don’t go back on and you’re supposed to buy more. I’m probably paranoid, but I wonder if they consulted evolutionary theorists to figure out how they could hijack the deeper part of the brain, based on ape behavior.

  80. @Audacious Epigone
    My mother did the same with her most beloved dog growing up. He came limping into the backyard covered in ticks. She spent hours removing them, bathing the dog, feeding it, then it slept for a full day (supposedly) and now it lives on in her mind as the most wonderful creature to have ever walked the earth.

    Western women need to get back to caring for canine refugees instead of refugees who hate canines.

    Western women need to get back to caring for canine refugees instead of refugees who hate canines.

    Hear hear!

  81. @Jay Fink
    I am a conservative and definitely not a dog person. I don't like their barking or protective instinct. I suppose if a dog is really docile and never barks I might like it.

    I am a conservative and definitely not a dog person. I don’t like their barking or protective instinct.

    Whaaaa? I love my dogs, but their primary job is to warn of strangers on my property and to serve as a layer of my home defense. In other word, they help me to conserve my life and those of my family members. There is nothing more conservative than that.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Indeed. A cat's only utility beyond the emotional is in catching rodents (or birds if they are a problem, I suppose).
  82. @EliteCommInc.
    When I was a kid, I kept a fresh water 10 gallon aquarium ---


    Very very cool at night. The dogs were bored and never bothered. Easy care for the rare cleaning -- self sustaining eco system and great way to learn about other life forms. That was a neat project.


    I suspect that birds are messy . . .

    Your suspicions are right. I spend 10-20 minutes a day with the hose and broom alone. They also eat more than you’d expect as well.

  83. @Audacious Epigone
    Good to hear from you, man!

    Small samples, but bird owners are not liberal:

    Liberal - 6%
    Moderate - 69%
    Conservative - 25%

    Fish:

    Liberal - 16%
    Moderate - 53%
    Conservative - 32%

    Interesting that liberals, with putatively high openness to experience, are pretty conventional in their pet choices.

    Yeah, I still read all your posts, but I don’t have time to post much anymore. Between my personal project to read as much of the Western Canon as possible and my chickens, my online time is minimal.

    It does kind of make sense that bird owners would lean conservative as well as fish owners. You really do have to take full responsibility for the far larger amount of time and money you need for upkeep. There aren’t really many vets who specialize in it either, so you need to really figure out and do things independently. I’ve had to diagnose and treat medical problems all by myself. Let me put it this way, after you’ve had to put eyedrops into a half-feral rooster, hold it down and wait for the parasitic worms to come out from behind the eyes, then pull out the stragglers, you realize you can do a lot of things you would have noped out of earlier.

    It’s gross, time and money consuming, but I got more eggs than my entire extended family can use and meat if I ever need it. It’s just a really satisfying hobby/pet ownership for me. My only regret is I never got into it earlier.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Wow, very cool.

    I have an acquaintance who bought a house and inherited chickens a few years ago. For some reason he had to kill the rooster (maybe because he didn't want more?) so he had a couple of beers, grab it by the neck, and twirled it around until it broke and after fluttering around for awhile the rooster died.

    Now that I think about it, I'm not sure why he felt like he 'had' to kill it that way. Seems unnecessarily brutal to me, but he'd studied up on it some and found that's the way it's generally done.
  84. @Audacious Epigone
    You don't like its protective instinct?

    I don’t like how dogs smell fear. The badass who is going to rob your home has no fear. People who show fear tend to be kind and harmless.

    • Replies: @Trevor H.
    My experience differs. So-called "bad-asses" are positively consumed with fear. Contrary to their facade. And one thing they're smart enough to be afraid of is my dog. And my dog is an expert judge of character--better than me, truth be told.
    , @Twinkie

    I don’t like how dogs smell fear. The badass who is going to rob your home has no fear. People who show fear tend to be kind and harmless.
     
    While dogs can indeed "smell fear," that's not why they bark. They bark, because the intruders are strangers and smell funny - in other words, because they are intruding into the territory of the pack and they don't belong.

    Try breaking into my house with complete confidence at night, you will be torn to pieces by my dogs unless I call them off.

    People who show fear tend to be kind and harmless.
     
    That's nonsensical. Many people have been killed and hurt by fearful people in confrontations.

    I don't know from what movie you are drawing to get this idea that only confident people are dangerous, but it's the fearful people who, often unwittingly, initiate violence, because they don't read the signs/body language well and overreact or because they are "showing off" to compensate for their sense of fear.

    By the way, Rickson Gracie, the Gracie family vale tudo champion, and acknowledged to be the greatest living practitioner of Brazilian Jujitsu, once said, "These people who say, 'I am not afraid of anything' - they are idiots. Me, I am afraid of everything. That's why I prepare for my fights in every possible way I can think of."

    And here for your viewing pleasure: https://youtu.be/sJqwu2Bfq1A
    , @Stan d Mute

    The badass who is going to rob your home has no fear
     
    Given that my dogs outweigh him, he’s less a badass than a moron. But I don’t believe your assertion that he wouldn’t fear my dogs.
  85. @Audacious Epigone
    The module starts by asking respondents whether or not they have pets, and then excludes those who say they do not from the subsequent questions. About 60% say they have a pet of some kind, so close to half have dogs and around 15% have cats (going off memory from yesterday so these are rough estimates).

    Thanks! That makes much more sense.

  86. @Audacious Epigone
    My mother did the same with her most beloved dog growing up. He came limping into the backyard covered in ticks. She spent hours removing them, bathing the dog, feeding it, then it slept for a full day (supposedly) and now it lives on in her mind as the most wonderful creature to have ever walked the earth.

    Western women need to get back to caring for canine refugees instead of refugees who hate canines.

    Oh yeah! Don’t get me started on how third world people treat dogs! Heck, animals in general. More evidence of how we’re undoing everything that made our society great. Arrrgh.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Our ancestors enjoyed burning cats. We progressed from there. The naive among us think by bringing the world here, we will guide them to the same point we've reached. What will happen instead is that we will slide back from whence we came.
  87. @Jay Fink
    I don't like how dogs smell fear. The badass who is going to rob your home has no fear. People who show fear tend to be kind and harmless.

    My experience differs. So-called “bad-asses” are positively consumed with fear. Contrary to their facade. And one thing they’re smart enough to be afraid of is my dog. And my dog is an expert judge of character–better than me, truth be told.

  88. @Jay Fink
    I don't like how dogs smell fear. The badass who is going to rob your home has no fear. People who show fear tend to be kind and harmless.

    I don’t like how dogs smell fear. The badass who is going to rob your home has no fear. People who show fear tend to be kind and harmless.

    While dogs can indeed “smell fear,” that’s not why they bark. They bark, because the intruders are strangers and smell funny – in other words, because they are intruding into the territory of the pack and they don’t belong.

    Try breaking into my house with complete confidence at night, you will be torn to pieces by my dogs unless I call them off.

    People who show fear tend to be kind and harmless.

    That’s nonsensical. Many people have been killed and hurt by fearful people in confrontations.

    I don’t know from what movie you are drawing to get this idea that only confident people are dangerous, but it’s the fearful people who, often unwittingly, initiate violence, because they don’t read the signs/body language well and overreact or because they are “showing off” to compensate for their sense of fear.

    By the way, Rickson Gracie, the Gracie family vale tudo champion, and acknowledged to be the greatest living practitioner of Brazilian Jujitsu, once said, “These people who say, ‘I am not afraid of anything’ – they are idiots. Me, I am afraid of everything. That’s why I prepare for my fights in every possible way I can think of.”

    And here for your viewing pleasure:

    • Replies: @Truth

    “These people who say, ‘I am not afraid of anything’ – they are idiots. Me, I am afraid of everything. That’s why I prepare for my fights in every possible way I can think of.”
     
    I guess he had no fear of Sakuraba.
    , @res
    I understand the utility of dogs barking for security, but dogs like that which don't have a proper idea of their turf (sorry, my yard is my turf, and the street/sidewalk is also not theirs) can be incredibly annoying.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    When a dog charges at you without barking is when it's really time to be scared.
  89. Humans and dogs have been companions and partners for thousands of years. Long before civilization, even agriculture.

    Both species have co-evolved to be compatible with, and appealing to, each other.

    So, always be wary of anyone who has a dislike for dogs.

    Them people ain’t right…in the head.

    • Agree: Twinkie
  90. @Audacious Epigone
    Not that I know of, but I'll put a post in the queue to explain it.

    Ta. I’d be interested to know how you did it, step by step. Not that I want to steal your secret sauce 😉

    I was hoping the final query (queries?) that produced the data would be visible in SQL, as that’s what I mostly do for a living – because then I could hopefully tweak the SQL directly. But I couldn’t find an option to display the query in the raw language, whatever that language be.

  91. @Audacious Epigone
    My mother did the same with her most beloved dog growing up. He came limping into the backyard covered in ticks. She spent hours removing them, bathing the dog, feeding it, then it slept for a full day (supposedly) and now it lives on in her mind as the most wonderful creature to have ever walked the earth.

    Western women need to get back to caring for canine refugees instead of refugees who hate canines.

    In the coach park outside the Taj Mahal, surely the biggest tourist draw in all India, we saw a dying puppy, feebly moving as birds pecked at its eyes. We shooed the birds away, but what else could we do, pretty sure our ‘sirdar’ would have had a fit if we’d tried to get it on our bus (and there’s a thing called rabies). Not sure if there’s an Indian RSPCA.

  92. @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    Did you ever consider that it could be a case of "opposites attract?"

    I love dogs (but not a dog mom type). However, if I consider my personality, I'm much more like a cat. Independant, quiet, observant, thoughtful, at times cold, and standoffish. Therefore, why would I want a cat? It would be like having another me.

    Dogs (real dogs) are warm, garrulous, brash, loyal, friendly, but also dumber and less calculating. Seems to me that the dog is the ying to my yang. It balances me out.

    This is just what I've thought about myself. I've always had a natural aversion to cats, and a warmness towards dogs. This theory explains that.

    I don't know if the "cat" personality is necessarily more representative of conservatives though, I know plenty of loud and annoying Boomercons. But if the cat traits are more conservative, and people want the opposite animal, then it would explain why dog owners are more conservative.

    Just some thoughts.

    “Independant, quiet, observant, thoughtful, at times cold, and standoffish. Therefore, why would I want a cat? It would be like having another me.”

    The above all depends on the cat.

  93. @Twinkie

    I don’t like how dogs smell fear. The badass who is going to rob your home has no fear. People who show fear tend to be kind and harmless.
     
    While dogs can indeed "smell fear," that's not why they bark. They bark, because the intruders are strangers and smell funny - in other words, because they are intruding into the territory of the pack and they don't belong.

    Try breaking into my house with complete confidence at night, you will be torn to pieces by my dogs unless I call them off.

    People who show fear tend to be kind and harmless.
     
    That's nonsensical. Many people have been killed and hurt by fearful people in confrontations.

    I don't know from what movie you are drawing to get this idea that only confident people are dangerous, but it's the fearful people who, often unwittingly, initiate violence, because they don't read the signs/body language well and overreact or because they are "showing off" to compensate for their sense of fear.

    By the way, Rickson Gracie, the Gracie family vale tudo champion, and acknowledged to be the greatest living practitioner of Brazilian Jujitsu, once said, "These people who say, 'I am not afraid of anything' - they are idiots. Me, I am afraid of everything. That's why I prepare for my fights in every possible way I can think of."

    And here for your viewing pleasure: https://youtu.be/sJqwu2Bfq1A

    “These people who say, ‘I am not afraid of anything’ – they are idiots. Me, I am afraid of everything. That’s why I prepare for my fights in every possible way I can think of.”

    I guess he had no fear of Sakuraba.

  94. Anonymous [AKA "Snoozin Susan"] says:

    We have 14 cats and up to 8 dogs at a time. We are decidedly conservative, save as many animals as we can, and are vegan.

  95. @Audacious Epigone
    My mother did the same with her most beloved dog growing up. He came limping into the backyard covered in ticks. She spent hours removing them, bathing the dog, feeding it, then it slept for a full day (supposedly) and now it lives on in her mind as the most wonderful creature to have ever walked the earth.

    Western women need to get back to caring for canine refugees instead of refugees who hate canines.

    My mother did the same with her most beloved dog growing up. He came limping into the backyard covered in ticks. She spent hours removing them, bathing the dog, feeding it, then it slept for a full day (supposedly) and now it lives on in her mind as the most wonderful creature to have ever walked the earth.

    It could have rabies though. Parents shouldn’t allow kids to touch unknown animals, they can infect you even with a lick not a bite. My grandfather was bitten by a neighbor’s dog and underwent 40 rabies shots in a hospital (the modern treatment is only 5-6 shots). The dog turned out to be healthy, but you never know.

    A technical issue: it takes hours for new comments to load. Currently this page has only 87 that I can see, and the main page says there’s 93.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Yeah, it's not something I'd recommend as a matter of practice.

    Ron's aware of the comment loading issue.
    , @German_reader

    A technical issue: it takes hours for new comments to load. Currently this page has only 87 that I can see, and the main page says there’s 93.
     
    It must have something to do with cookies. Try writing a comment yourself (e.g. "test", then delete it immediately afterwards), that's generally sufficient for me to get new comments to show.
  96. I’ve volunteered at an animal shelter. To my surprise, many cat people aren’t as liberal as I once presumed they were. Many are liberal of course, but many aren’t and I suspect it has to do with the fact that cats are adept predators. I would imagine some hyper-liberal people of today are put off by that fact. Some cat lovers aren’t anti-hunting rights (like many liberals are) because hunting is the favorite pastime of their favorite animal.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Good point. Cats are natural born killers.
  97. @Twinkie

    I don’t like how dogs smell fear. The badass who is going to rob your home has no fear. People who show fear tend to be kind and harmless.
     
    While dogs can indeed "smell fear," that's not why they bark. They bark, because the intruders are strangers and smell funny - in other words, because they are intruding into the territory of the pack and they don't belong.

    Try breaking into my house with complete confidence at night, you will be torn to pieces by my dogs unless I call them off.

    People who show fear tend to be kind and harmless.
     
    That's nonsensical. Many people have been killed and hurt by fearful people in confrontations.

    I don't know from what movie you are drawing to get this idea that only confident people are dangerous, but it's the fearful people who, often unwittingly, initiate violence, because they don't read the signs/body language well and overreact or because they are "showing off" to compensate for their sense of fear.

    By the way, Rickson Gracie, the Gracie family vale tudo champion, and acknowledged to be the greatest living practitioner of Brazilian Jujitsu, once said, "These people who say, 'I am not afraid of anything' - they are idiots. Me, I am afraid of everything. That's why I prepare for my fights in every possible way I can think of."

    And here for your viewing pleasure: https://youtu.be/sJqwu2Bfq1A

    I understand the utility of dogs barking for security, but dogs like that which don’t have a proper idea of their turf (sorry, my yard is my turf, and the street/sidewalk is also not theirs) can be incredibly annoying.

    • Replies: @songbird
    My dog often goes crazy when he sees a rabbit. At first, I was displeased at the racket because I am not a gardener and see a rabbit as a slight novelty, nothing more.

    But then I got to thinking, who was the last person in my family born on a farm? One of my grandfathers. That was just two generations ago, from my perspective. And to him a rabbit probably would have been 1.) a significant pest, and 2.)a tasty meal. And if his dog hadn't barked he would have thought it a bad dog, and probably it would not have had a chance to sire.

    So, in actuality, my dog wasn't being stupid, he was just acting out his genetic orders from a breeding program potentially thousands of years long.
    , @Wency
    Agree with this. My dog happens to be pretty well-calibrated on the matter. I feel safer in my house knowing that she almost always alerts me to anyone coming unusually close to it, and she rarely barks at much else (at least while inside).

    But I have known dogs that regard someone closing a car door 100 yards away and someone walking up to the front door as equally bark-worthy.

    Choice of breed helps a lot with this, but there will always be individual differences. You can also train a dog to be better about it, but it's much better to start with a dog that has good instincts.

    , @Twinkie
    With most dogs, it’s not too difficult to curtail barking. As with much of training, it requires finding something that strikes your dog’s fancy (cut up chicken works well with most food-motivated dogs) and, in return for that reward, requesting an action that is incompatible with the behavior you want suppressed. The rest is consistent repetition/reinforcement and “polishing.” It’s just basic operant conditioning.

    When my dogs hear strangers on the edge of my property or on the street facing my property, they let out a bark or two and then rummage through the house looking for me to collect their reward. Now all it requires is “Good dogs, you found me!” in an excited voice and patting on the heads. But in the beginning I used meats, chewing balls, and bones.

    Sadly, most people are too lazy to do this and just keep whining about how their dogs are uncontrollable.
  98. @Audacious Epigone
    My mother did the same with her most beloved dog growing up. He came limping into the backyard covered in ticks. She spent hours removing them, bathing the dog, feeding it, then it slept for a full day (supposedly) and now it lives on in her mind as the most wonderful creature to have ever walked the earth.

    Western women need to get back to caring for canine refugees instead of refugees who hate canines.

    Well agreed.

    A seldom-mentioned aspect of the Muslim conquest of Persia: the Muslims would taunt the Zoroastrians (who were quite fond of dogs) by inflicting horrific cruelties on the animals.

    An anecdote from some years ago: my parents, who had a 15 lb. yappy dog, once invited a very mild-mannered Indian couple inside to look at a piece of furniture during a garage sale. They didn’t think to warn the Indians of the dog, but when the dog started yapping at them, the couple reacted as if my parents had failed to mention their pet tiger.

    “What is it going to do? Get it under control!” the woman shrieked as her husband scooped up their child (who easily weighed 4x the dog).

    I was trying to figure out if they were being serious or if this was some elaborate joke. I finally picked up the little dog but it kept yapping, and the Indians quickly left our house, got into their car, and sped off.

    Meanwhile, the 50 lb. children of my friends will happily play with my 70 lb. dog. It’s quite remarkable how vast the cultural distance can be on this matter.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Indian
     
    I live in an area that has experienced a massive increase in the Indian population in the past ten years. When my family and I go for a walk with some of our dogs to the local ice cream shop, there are always some Indian parents and children outside the shop who recoil in horror at the dogs as if they were Bengal tigers and scoop up their kids and leap away. Apparently no one told them about triggering a prey instinct in predators with such movements.

    I usually get cheeky and say to my wife, “That’s probably the most athletic they have ever been in their whole lives.”

    Most white and East Asian kids ask to pet the dogs, and the dogs happily receive the pets from them and give them some licks in return especially if the hands have some ice cream debris.
    , @Feryl
    Affection for cats in the MENA pre-dates Islam (the Egyptians had laws banning cruelty towards cats). Cats were domesticated by desert dwellers in or near North Africa long before Islam; as you get further from North Africa, people are more hostile towards cats.

    The Zoroastrians probably picked on the cats favored by Muslims, and the Muslims responded by picking on dogs.
  99. @res
    I understand the utility of dogs barking for security, but dogs like that which don't have a proper idea of their turf (sorry, my yard is my turf, and the street/sidewalk is also not theirs) can be incredibly annoying.

    My dog often goes crazy when he sees a rabbit. At first, I was displeased at the racket because I am not a gardener and see a rabbit as a slight novelty, nothing more.

    But then I got to thinking, who was the last person in my family born on a farm? One of my grandfathers. That was just two generations ago, from my perspective. And to him a rabbit probably would have been 1.) a significant pest, and 2.)a tasty meal. And if his dog hadn’t barked he would have thought it a bad dog, and probably it would not have had a chance to sire.

    So, in actuality, my dog wasn’t being stupid, he was just acting out his genetic orders from a breeding program potentially thousands of years long.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @res
    Understood. And it is your choice to put up with those nuisance false alarms in return for the benefit you get from your dog. My point is that making others deal with those issues is less acceptable. The reality is many dogs (or perhaps more accurately, dog/owner combinations) are not well suited for even a semi-urban environment.

    A certain amount of slack is called for by neighborliness, but this does not scale well with increasing density. And it also doesn't work well with neighbors who fail to acknowledge a problem exists.
  100. @res
    I understand the utility of dogs barking for security, but dogs like that which don't have a proper idea of their turf (sorry, my yard is my turf, and the street/sidewalk is also not theirs) can be incredibly annoying.

    Agree with this. My dog happens to be pretty well-calibrated on the matter. I feel safer in my house knowing that she almost always alerts me to anyone coming unusually close to it, and she rarely barks at much else (at least while inside).

    But I have known dogs that regard someone closing a car door 100 yards away and someone walking up to the front door as equally bark-worthy.

    Choice of breed helps a lot with this, but there will always be individual differences. You can also train a dog to be better about it, but it’s much better to start with a dog that has good instincts.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Choice of breed helps a lot with this, but there will always be individual differences. You can also train a dog to be better about it, but it’s much better to start with a dog that has good instincts.
     
    Yes!

    I have a female head of household (read divorced) neighbor who leaves her four female Bichons outside in front of her house (she has an electronic fence system). They are completely untrained and bark and shriek nonstop. Totally obnoxious. When she’s on business her grown children who live with her are irresponsible and leave the dogs outside at nights and they bark all night.

    Suffice to say, she’s a pariah in the neighborhood.

    But I use her dogs for training my dogs. When we walk by her property, I have my dogs sit or lie down quietly, facing away from the yipping Bichons. It’s a bit funny to see my big dogs being mellow on the street while the little dogs go berserk. Eventually the little dogs go quiet, and my wife says, “Are we training her dogs now?”
  101. res says:
    @songbird
    My dog often goes crazy when he sees a rabbit. At first, I was displeased at the racket because I am not a gardener and see a rabbit as a slight novelty, nothing more.

    But then I got to thinking, who was the last person in my family born on a farm? One of my grandfathers. That was just two generations ago, from my perspective. And to him a rabbit probably would have been 1.) a significant pest, and 2.)a tasty meal. And if his dog hadn't barked he would have thought it a bad dog, and probably it would not have had a chance to sire.

    So, in actuality, my dog wasn't being stupid, he was just acting out his genetic orders from a breeding program potentially thousands of years long.

    Understood. And it is your choice to put up with those nuisance false alarms in return for the benefit you get from your dog. My point is that making others deal with those issues is less acceptable. The reality is many dogs (or perhaps more accurately, dog/owner combinations) are not well suited for even a semi-urban environment.

    A certain amount of slack is called for by neighborliness, but this does not scale well with increasing density. And it also doesn’t work well with neighbors who fail to acknowledge a problem exists.

    • Replies: @songbird
    I agree: the people who leave their barky dogs out all night are the worst. I think part of it is a socialization problem, and if dogs could wonder around a bit, like before the leash laws, it probably wouldn't be such a big problem. But that may not be desirable for other reasons: the mess, the fact some have aggressive dogs, and others a powerful fear of even very gentle dogs.

    I think there is potentially a lot of room for improvement in dogs, and it will be interesting to see if genetic engineering makes headway into some of these problems. One thing I personally would like changed is how many dogs have a disgusting habit to engage in coprophagia. I suppose it might be a consequence of there having been limited resources to feed them in the past, so a certain amount of scavenging may have helped them survive.
  102. @Wency
    Agree with this. My dog happens to be pretty well-calibrated on the matter. I feel safer in my house knowing that she almost always alerts me to anyone coming unusually close to it, and she rarely barks at much else (at least while inside).

    But I have known dogs that regard someone closing a car door 100 yards away and someone walking up to the front door as equally bark-worthy.

    Choice of breed helps a lot with this, but there will always be individual differences. You can also train a dog to be better about it, but it's much better to start with a dog that has good instincts.

    Choice of breed helps a lot with this, but there will always be individual differences. You can also train a dog to be better about it, but it’s much better to start with a dog that has good instincts.

    Yes!

    I have a female head of household (read divorced) neighbor who leaves her four female Bichons outside in front of her house (she has an electronic fence system). They are completely untrained and bark and shriek nonstop. Totally obnoxious. When she’s on business her grown children who live with her are irresponsible and leave the dogs outside at nights and they bark all night.

    Suffice to say, she’s a pariah in the neighborhood.

    But I use her dogs for training my dogs. When we walk by her property, I have my dogs sit or lie down quietly, facing away from the yipping Bichons. It’s a bit funny to see my big dogs being mellow on the street while the little dogs go berserk. Eventually the little dogs go quiet, and my wife says, “Are we training her dogs now?”

    • LOL: Johann Ricke
  103. @Wency
    Well agreed.

    A seldom-mentioned aspect of the Muslim conquest of Persia: the Muslims would taunt the Zoroastrians (who were quite fond of dogs) by inflicting horrific cruelties on the animals.

    An anecdote from some years ago: my parents, who had a 15 lb. yappy dog, once invited a very mild-mannered Indian couple inside to look at a piece of furniture during a garage sale. They didn't think to warn the Indians of the dog, but when the dog started yapping at them, the couple reacted as if my parents had failed to mention their pet tiger.

    "What is it going to do? Get it under control!" the woman shrieked as her husband scooped up their child (who easily weighed 4x the dog).

    I was trying to figure out if they were being serious or if this was some elaborate joke. I finally picked up the little dog but it kept yapping, and the Indians quickly left our house, got into their car, and sped off.

    Meanwhile, the 50 lb. children of my friends will happily play with my 70 lb. dog. It's quite remarkable how vast the cultural distance can be on this matter.

    Indian

    I live in an area that has experienced a massive increase in the Indian population in the past ten years. When my family and I go for a walk with some of our dogs to the local ice cream shop, there are always some Indian parents and children outside the shop who recoil in horror at the dogs as if they were Bengal tigers and scoop up their kids and leap away. Apparently no one told them about triggering a prey instinct in predators with such movements.

    I usually get cheeky and say to my wife, “That’s probably the most athletic they have ever been in their whole lives.”

    Most white and East Asian kids ask to pet the dogs, and the dogs happily receive the pets from them and give them some licks in return especially if the hands have some ice cream debris.

    • Replies: @Talha
    Bro, you guys have nothing on some Indians when it comes to dogs. They be marryin' their daughters off to them:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcyDb3w5PLQ

    OK, OK - so it's just so some curse will eventually end up on the dog, but still!!!

    Peace.
  104. @res
    Understood. And it is your choice to put up with those nuisance false alarms in return for the benefit you get from your dog. My point is that making others deal with those issues is less acceptable. The reality is many dogs (or perhaps more accurately, dog/owner combinations) are not well suited for even a semi-urban environment.

    A certain amount of slack is called for by neighborliness, but this does not scale well with increasing density. And it also doesn't work well with neighbors who fail to acknowledge a problem exists.

    I agree: the people who leave their barky dogs out all night are the worst. I think part of it is a socialization problem, and if dogs could wonder around a bit, like before the leash laws, it probably wouldn’t be such a big problem. But that may not be desirable for other reasons: the mess, the fact some have aggressive dogs, and others a powerful fear of even very gentle dogs.

    I think there is potentially a lot of room for improvement in dogs, and it will be interesting to see if genetic engineering makes headway into some of these problems. One thing I personally would like changed is how many dogs have a disgusting habit to engage in coprophagia. I suppose it might be a consequence of there having been limited resources to feed them in the past, so a certain amount of scavenging may have helped them survive.

  105. @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    Did you ever consider that it could be a case of "opposites attract?"

    I love dogs (but not a dog mom type). However, if I consider my personality, I'm much more like a cat. Independant, quiet, observant, thoughtful, at times cold, and standoffish. Therefore, why would I want a cat? It would be like having another me.

    Dogs (real dogs) are warm, garrulous, brash, loyal, friendly, but also dumber and less calculating. Seems to me that the dog is the ying to my yang. It balances me out.

    This is just what I've thought about myself. I've always had a natural aversion to cats, and a warmness towards dogs. This theory explains that.

    I don't know if the "cat" personality is necessarily more representative of conservatives though, I know plenty of loud and annoying Boomercons. But if the cat traits are more conservative, and people want the opposite animal, then it would explain why dog owners are more conservative.

    Just some thoughts.

    Dogs are more intelligent than cats, I think. Being able to follow commands is a pretty good proxy for intelligence in animals.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Being able to follow commands is a pretty good proxy for intelligence in animals.
     
    Trainability and intelligence are not quite the same. The former usually requires eagerness to please. For example, Border Collies are both highly trainable and intelligent. Siberian Huskies, in contrast, are very independent (often described as “cat-like”) and are also highly intelligent. So it’s not easy to get Siberians to follow commands, but they are masters of escaping confinement (meaning, they are great problem-solvers). Siberian owners often say that you don’t own a Siberian - you coexist with one.
    , @Feryl
    Dogs are less independent, though, and much more bumbling/oafish than cats. Dog whining is incredibly grating, and always pushed my blood pressure up. Cats typically are not vocally annoying; the only time their meows really bother you is if you get woken up while sleeping.
  106. @res
    I understand the utility of dogs barking for security, but dogs like that which don't have a proper idea of their turf (sorry, my yard is my turf, and the street/sidewalk is also not theirs) can be incredibly annoying.

    With most dogs, it’s not too difficult to curtail barking. As with much of training, it requires finding something that strikes your dog’s fancy (cut up chicken works well with most food-motivated dogs) and, in return for that reward, requesting an action that is incompatible with the behavior you want suppressed. The rest is consistent repetition/reinforcement and “polishing.” It’s just basic operant conditioning.

    When my dogs hear strangers on the edge of my property or on the street facing my property, they let out a bark or two and then rummage through the house looking for me to collect their reward. Now all it requires is “Good dogs, you found me!” in an excited voice and patting on the heads. But in the beginning I used meats, chewing balls, and bones.

    Sadly, most people are too lazy to do this and just keep whining about how their dogs are uncontrollable.

  107. @Twinkie

    I am a conservative and definitely not a dog person. I don’t like their barking or protective instinct.
     
    Whaaaa? I love my dogs, but their primary job is to warn of strangers on my property and to serve as a layer of my home defense. In other word, they help me to conserve my life and those of my family members. There is nothing more conservative than that.

    Indeed. A cat’s only utility beyond the emotional is in catching rodents (or birds if they are a problem, I suppose).

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Indeed. A cat’s only utility beyond the emotional is in catching rodents (or birds if they are a problem, I suppose).
     
    They are also excellent at killing snakes. Cats are generally much faster and more agile than dogs and can fight snakes on more than equal terms. Dogs... should be taught to avoid venomous snakes.

    A lot of bird hunters and watchers I know absolutely loathe feral cats. They destroy birds in massive numbers. Even when they are not hungry, feral cats will kill birds for amusement or out of instinct.
    , @EliteCommInc.
    Ha. Not so.

    The first time I was whacked by a car while riding my bike. Two of my cats spent days lying on my chest when I was hit and fell to the street.

    Literally pawed at the very spot and then layed across my chest until the welling dissipated . Two cats did this routinely. It was as if they took turns. The fact that layed across the the area where i am sure I had cracked or severely bruised ribs -- was more than emotional time sharing.

    To this day, I claim they saved my life.

  108. @Spike Gomes
    Yeah, I still read all your posts, but I don't have time to post much anymore. Between my personal project to read as much of the Western Canon as possible and my chickens, my online time is minimal.

    It does kind of make sense that bird owners would lean conservative as well as fish owners. You really do have to take full responsibility for the far larger amount of time and money you need for upkeep. There aren't really many vets who specialize in it either, so you need to really figure out and do things independently. I've had to diagnose and treat medical problems all by myself. Let me put it this way, after you've had to put eyedrops into a half-feral rooster, hold it down and wait for the parasitic worms to come out from behind the eyes, then pull out the stragglers, you realize you can do a lot of things you would have noped out of earlier.

    It's gross, time and money consuming, but I got more eggs than my entire extended family can use and meat if I ever need it. It's just a really satisfying hobby/pet ownership for me. My only regret is I never got into it earlier.

    Wow, very cool.

    I have an acquaintance who bought a house and inherited chickens a few years ago. For some reason he had to kill the rooster (maybe because he didn’t want more?) so he had a couple of beers, grab it by the neck, and twirled it around until it broke and after fluttering around for awhile the rooster died.

    Now that I think about it, I’m not sure why he felt like he ‘had’ to kill it that way. Seems unnecessarily brutal to me, but he’d studied up on it some and found that’s the way it’s generally done.

    • Replies: @Toronto Russian

    Now that I think about it, I’m not sure why he felt like he ‘had’ to kill it that way. Seems unnecessarily brutal to me, but he’d studied up on it some and found that’s the way it’s generally done.
     
    That's quite strange. Usually people who steal chickens are described killing them this way, having no time or place for a proper beheading. In America as well as elsewhere an axe was used:
    https://youtu.be/bx1dC9RNPjQ
  109. @Audacious Epigone
    Dogs are more intelligent than cats, I think. Being able to follow commands is a pretty good proxy for intelligence in animals.

    Being able to follow commands is a pretty good proxy for intelligence in animals.

    Trainability and intelligence are not quite the same. The former usually requires eagerness to please. For example, Border Collies are both highly trainable and intelligent. Siberian Huskies, in contrast, are very independent (often described as “cat-like”) and are also highly intelligent. So it’s not easy to get Siberians to follow commands, but they are masters of escaping confinement (meaning, they are great problem-solvers). Siberian owners often say that you don’t own a Siberian – you coexist with one.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    Cat people tend to like the wolf-ish dogs better. German Shepherds, Huskies, etc. These dogs don't look freakishly mutated like pit-bulls, pugs, and the like. Retrievers and collies are also fairly appealing in their appearance.
  110. @Trevor H.
    Oh yeah! Don't get me started on how third world people treat dogs! Heck, animals in general. More evidence of how we're undoing everything that made our society great. Arrrgh.

    Our ancestors enjoyed burning cats. We progressed from there. The naive among us think by bringing the world here, we will guide them to the same point we’ve reached. What will happen instead is that we will slide back from whence we came.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    Cat hatred is endemic to sub-Saharan black people, who hate nature in general (as well they should, what with Africa to this day being over-run by large and dangerous animals). The MENA has always revered cats, probably because that's where they got domesticated (house cats to this day enjoy sunshine and sand).

    Literally killing many cats in Western Europe was a really, really stupid idea, because who wants the mouse and rat population to be even worse (and well-developed areas like Western Europe are always going to be over-run with vermin under the best of circumstances)?

    Christian Lander was a cat person who put dogs on his SWPL blog. Most cats are just generic cats, and rarely treated as a status symbol. Whereas dog owners often sperg out over breed/breed sub-type, and often pay big sums of money for a puppy.

    Dogs (most breeds) are pitiful and childish looking, which I find depressing. I don't feel as much pity for cats, who have more mature phenotypes (e.g., cat eyes are less large relative to the overall head size, in comparison to dogs). Dogs also have fairly large heads for their bodies, making them look more childish.
  111. @Audacious Epigone
    Indeed. A cat's only utility beyond the emotional is in catching rodents (or birds if they are a problem, I suppose).

    Indeed. A cat’s only utility beyond the emotional is in catching rodents (or birds if they are a problem, I suppose).

    They are also excellent at killing snakes. Cats are generally much faster and more agile than dogs and can fight snakes on more than equal terms. Dogs… should be taught to avoid venomous snakes.

    A lot of bird hunters and watchers I know absolutely loathe feral cats. They destroy birds in massive numbers. Even when they are not hungry, feral cats will kill birds for amusement or out of instinct.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    A lot of bird hunters and watchers I know absolutely loathe feral cats. They destroy birds in massive numbers. Even when they are not hungry, feral cats will kill birds for amusement or out of instinct.
     
    Natural selection at work. In nature, cats that can't or don't like to hunt don't pass on their genes. It's not as if they can buy fresh meat from the nearest grocery store. If we ever get back to a state of nature, via some unfathomable natural or man-made disaster, people who cringe at blood will be selected out of the gene pool.
    , @Feryl
    And there's no doubt that in some of those areas, the bird population might be overly high, any way. Besides, over time birds will adapt to escape predation by cats. Also, I'd argue that the rodent control provided by cats off-sets anything else they do. Urban and suburban areas are full of rodents, and what else besides cats (and the occasional human exterminator) is going to control them?
  112. @Twinkie

    I don’t like how dogs smell fear. The badass who is going to rob your home has no fear. People who show fear tend to be kind and harmless.
     
    While dogs can indeed "smell fear," that's not why they bark. They bark, because the intruders are strangers and smell funny - in other words, because they are intruding into the territory of the pack and they don't belong.

    Try breaking into my house with complete confidence at night, you will be torn to pieces by my dogs unless I call them off.

    People who show fear tend to be kind and harmless.
     
    That's nonsensical. Many people have been killed and hurt by fearful people in confrontations.

    I don't know from what movie you are drawing to get this idea that only confident people are dangerous, but it's the fearful people who, often unwittingly, initiate violence, because they don't read the signs/body language well and overreact or because they are "showing off" to compensate for their sense of fear.

    By the way, Rickson Gracie, the Gracie family vale tudo champion, and acknowledged to be the greatest living practitioner of Brazilian Jujitsu, once said, "These people who say, 'I am not afraid of anything' - they are idiots. Me, I am afraid of everything. That's why I prepare for my fights in every possible way I can think of."

    And here for your viewing pleasure: https://youtu.be/sJqwu2Bfq1A

    When a dog charges at you without barking is when it’s really time to be scared.

  113. @Toronto Russian

    My mother did the same with her most beloved dog growing up. He came limping into the backyard covered in ticks. She spent hours removing them, bathing the dog, feeding it, then it slept for a full day (supposedly) and now it lives on in her mind as the most wonderful creature to have ever walked the earth.
     
    It could have rabies though. Parents shouldn't allow kids to touch unknown animals, they can infect you even with a lick not a bite. My grandfather was bitten by a neighbor's dog and underwent 40 rabies shots in a hospital (the modern treatment is only 5-6 shots). The dog turned out to be healthy, but you never know.

    A technical issue: it takes hours for new comments to load. Currently this page has only 87 that I can see, and the main page says there's 93.

    Yeah, it’s not something I’d recommend as a matter of practice.

    Ron’s aware of the comment loading issue.

  114. @J1234
    I've volunteered at an animal shelter. To my surprise, many cat people aren't as liberal as I once presumed they were. Many are liberal of course, but many aren't and I suspect it has to do with the fact that cats are adept predators. I would imagine some hyper-liberal people of today are put off by that fact. Some cat lovers aren't anti-hunting rights (like many liberals are) because hunting is the favorite pastime of their favorite animal.

    Good point. Cats are natural born killers.

  115. @Twinkie
    With most dogs, it’s not too difficult to curtail barking. As with much of training, it requires finding something that strikes your dog’s fancy (cut up chicken works well with most food-motivated dogs) and, in return for that reward, requesting an action that is incompatible with the behavior you want suppressed. The rest is consistent repetition/reinforcement and “polishing.” It’s just basic operant conditioning.

    When my dogs hear strangers on the edge of my property or on the street facing my property, they let out a bark or two and then rummage through the house looking for me to collect their reward. Now all it requires is “Good dogs, you found me!” in an excited voice and patting on the heads. But in the beginning I used meats, chewing balls, and bones.

    Sadly, most people are too lazy to do this and just keep whining about how their dogs are uncontrollable.
  116. @German_reader
    It would be more interesting to know about the political views of those degenerates who keep snakes or lizards as pets.

    What’s wrong with that? They’re surely kept for aesthetics, not for companionship. Like a little more interesting house plants.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    They’re surely kept for aesthetics, not for companionship.
     
    Not necessarily true.
    My father has a friend in England who knows another guy who owns some kind of python. That snake guy took his python with him into bed, to cuddle with it, and thought the snake was trying to cuddle him back.
    He later told a veterinarian about the behaviour of his snake. The vet grew serious and said "Your snake didn't try to show you affection, it showed the behaviour that's typical when it prepares to attack prey".
    There really are people deranged enough to believe they can have a relationship with their scaly friends.
  117. @Twinkie

    Indeed. A cat’s only utility beyond the emotional is in catching rodents (or birds if they are a problem, I suppose).
     
    They are also excellent at killing snakes. Cats are generally much faster and more agile than dogs and can fight snakes on more than equal terms. Dogs... should be taught to avoid venomous snakes.

    A lot of bird hunters and watchers I know absolutely loathe feral cats. They destroy birds in massive numbers. Even when they are not hungry, feral cats will kill birds for amusement or out of instinct.

    A lot of bird hunters and watchers I know absolutely loathe feral cats. They destroy birds in massive numbers. Even when they are not hungry, feral cats will kill birds for amusement or out of instinct.

    Natural selection at work. In nature, cats that can’t or don’t like to hunt don’t pass on their genes. It’s not as if they can buy fresh meat from the nearest grocery store. If we ever get back to a state of nature, via some unfathomable natural or man-made disaster, people who cringe at blood will be selected out of the gene pool.

  118. @Twinkie
    Cats are super fast and agile - that's why they are great at hunting mice and snakes in the barn.

    I know that Siberian Husky routine all too well, having owned a few in the past. They are highly intelligent, high-energy escape artists, but are not too keen on pleasing their owners. They also shed massively and when they "blow" their coats twice a year, the whole house will be swimming in dog fur.

    Cats are wonderful if you want mice/rats/rabbits and even the occasional mole to be killed. It’s odd to me that cat haters don’t appreciate why we tolerated cats in the first place (rodent control). Some dogs shed horribly, no doubt about that.

    Some cats have “spraying” problems, but hell, I’ve lived with at least two dogs that frequently pissed in the house; we had AV equipment and furniture in the basement living room that stank like hell and was crusty from all the times it got pissed on. I know it was the dog (a sheltie) because once the dog died, fresh “coatings” that smelled like dog pee stopped appearing (we also had a cat at this time, but the basement was fine until the dog showed up). The two cats I’ve lived with since I’ve been a teenager seldom “sprayed”, not until both were dying did they start to pee outside the litter box.

    The stress of dog “escapes” is very nerve-wracking. Cats, on the other hand, can wander off for many hours but will eventually reappear, and owners don’t mind.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    The two cats I’ve lived with since I’ve been a teenager seldom “sprayed”, not until both were dying did they start to pee outside the litter box.
     
    Isn't "spraying" something only unaltered males do?

    The stress of dog “escapes” is very nerve-wracking. Cats, on the other hand, can wander off for many hours but will eventually reappear, and owners don’t mind.
     
    Good Lord. I would be an absolute nervous wreck if one of my cats wandered off. I keep them strictly indoors. It protects them from diseases like taxoplasmosis (bad for pregnant women) and also protects our cherished bird life. My cats have never minded being indoor-only.
  119. @Twinkie

    Indeed. A cat’s only utility beyond the emotional is in catching rodents (or birds if they are a problem, I suppose).
     
    They are also excellent at killing snakes. Cats are generally much faster and more agile than dogs and can fight snakes on more than equal terms. Dogs... should be taught to avoid venomous snakes.

    A lot of bird hunters and watchers I know absolutely loathe feral cats. They destroy birds in massive numbers. Even when they are not hungry, feral cats will kill birds for amusement or out of instinct.

    And there’s no doubt that in some of those areas, the bird population might be overly high, any way. Besides, over time birds will adapt to escape predation by cats. Also, I’d argue that the rodent control provided by cats off-sets anything else they do. Urban and suburban areas are full of rodents, and what else besides cats (and the occasional human exterminator) is going to control them?

  120. @Audacious Epigone
    Our ancestors enjoyed burning cats. We progressed from there. The naive among us think by bringing the world here, we will guide them to the same point we've reached. What will happen instead is that we will slide back from whence we came.

    Cat hatred is endemic to sub-Saharan black people, who hate nature in general (as well they should, what with Africa to this day being over-run by large and dangerous animals). The MENA has always revered cats, probably because that’s where they got domesticated (house cats to this day enjoy sunshine and sand).

    Literally killing many cats in Western Europe was a really, really stupid idea, because who wants the mouse and rat population to be even worse (and well-developed areas like Western Europe are always going to be over-run with vermin under the best of circumstances)?

    Christian Lander was a cat person who put dogs on his SWPL blog. Most cats are just generic cats, and rarely treated as a status symbol. Whereas dog owners often sperg out over breed/breed sub-type, and often pay big sums of money for a puppy.

    Dogs (most breeds) are pitiful and childish looking, which I find depressing. I don’t feel as much pity for cats, who have more mature phenotypes (e.g., cat eyes are less large relative to the overall head size, in comparison to dogs). Dogs also have fairly large heads for their bodies, making them look more childish.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Cat hatred is endemic to sub-Saharan black people, who hate nature in general (as well they should, what with Africa to this day being over-run by large and dangerous animals). The MENA has always revered cats, probably because that’s where they got domesticated (house cats to this day enjoy sunshine and sand).
     
    The first time I was in Bali, Indonesia eons ago, I asked the locals about what they would do if they ran over a cat with a vehicle. They told me they would go to the temple and make an offering to appease the spirit of the cat and be very sorry about the whole accident.

    "What if you ran over a dog?" "Oh, we don't care about them."

    Mangy-looking semi-feral "village" dogs were everywhere on the Island.
  121. @Twinkie

    Being able to follow commands is a pretty good proxy for intelligence in animals.
     
    Trainability and intelligence are not quite the same. The former usually requires eagerness to please. For example, Border Collies are both highly trainable and intelligent. Siberian Huskies, in contrast, are very independent (often described as “cat-like”) and are also highly intelligent. So it’s not easy to get Siberians to follow commands, but they are masters of escaping confinement (meaning, they are great problem-solvers). Siberian owners often say that you don’t own a Siberian - you coexist with one.

    Cat people tend to like the wolf-ish dogs better. German Shepherds, Huskies, etc. These dogs don’t look freakishly mutated like pit-bulls, pugs, and the like. Retrievers and collies are also fairly appealing in their appearance.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Cat people tend to like the wolf-ish dogs better. German Shepherds, Huskies, etc. These dogs don’t look freakishly mutated like pit-bulls, pugs, and the like. Retrievers and collies are also fairly appealing in their appearance.
     
    Surely those are YOUR preferences.

    German Shepherds are not "wolfish" dogs. It is a heavily "constructed" breed that was subject to a lot of experimentation and selective breeding.

    Siberian Huskies ARE Northern Spitz-type dogs - along with Samoyeds, Japanese Akitas (not the highly hybridized American Akitas), Kai-Ken, Korean Jindo, Norwegian Elkhound, etc. They show several "wolfish" traits, such as being extremely fastidious. I happen to be quite partial to these kinds of dogs even though most are quite challenging to train. I like their "wildness."
  122. @Audacious Epigone
    Dogs are more intelligent than cats, I think. Being able to follow commands is a pretty good proxy for intelligence in animals.

    Dogs are less independent, though, and much more bumbling/oafish than cats. Dog whining is incredibly grating, and always pushed my blood pressure up. Cats typically are not vocally annoying; the only time their meows really bother you is if you get woken up while sleeping.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Dog whining is incredibly grating
     
    Not to me. I find it quite endearing. But I am a pretty crazed "dog" person. I usually prefer their company to that of most people.
  123. @Wency
    Well agreed.

    A seldom-mentioned aspect of the Muslim conquest of Persia: the Muslims would taunt the Zoroastrians (who were quite fond of dogs) by inflicting horrific cruelties on the animals.

    An anecdote from some years ago: my parents, who had a 15 lb. yappy dog, once invited a very mild-mannered Indian couple inside to look at a piece of furniture during a garage sale. They didn't think to warn the Indians of the dog, but when the dog started yapping at them, the couple reacted as if my parents had failed to mention their pet tiger.

    "What is it going to do? Get it under control!" the woman shrieked as her husband scooped up their child (who easily weighed 4x the dog).

    I was trying to figure out if they were being serious or if this was some elaborate joke. I finally picked up the little dog but it kept yapping, and the Indians quickly left our house, got into their car, and sped off.

    Meanwhile, the 50 lb. children of my friends will happily play with my 70 lb. dog. It's quite remarkable how vast the cultural distance can be on this matter.

    Affection for cats in the MENA pre-dates Islam (the Egyptians had laws banning cruelty towards cats). Cats were domesticated by desert dwellers in or near North Africa long before Islam; as you get further from North Africa, people are more hostile towards cats.

    The Zoroastrians probably picked on the cats favored by Muslims, and the Muslims responded by picking on dogs.

  124. @Feryl
    Cats are wonderful if you want mice/rats/rabbits and even the occasional mole to be killed. It's odd to me that cat haters don't appreciate why we tolerated cats in the first place (rodent control). Some dogs shed horribly, no doubt about that.

    Some cats have "spraying" problems, but hell, I've lived with at least two dogs that frequently pissed in the house; we had AV equipment and furniture in the basement living room that stank like hell and was crusty from all the times it got pissed on. I know it was the dog (a sheltie) because once the dog died, fresh "coatings" that smelled like dog pee stopped appearing (we also had a cat at this time, but the basement was fine until the dog showed up). The two cats I've lived with since I've been a teenager seldom "sprayed", not until both were dying did they start to pee outside the litter box.

    The stress of dog "escapes" is very nerve-wracking. Cats, on the other hand, can wander off for many hours but will eventually reappear, and owners don't mind.

    The two cats I’ve lived with since I’ve been a teenager seldom “sprayed”, not until both were dying did they start to pee outside the litter box.

    Isn’t “spraying” something only unaltered males do?

    The stress of dog “escapes” is very nerve-wracking. Cats, on the other hand, can wander off for many hours but will eventually reappear, and owners don’t mind.

    Good Lord. I would be an absolute nervous wreck if one of my cats wandered off. I keep them strictly indoors. It protects them from diseases like taxoplasmosis (bad for pregnant women) and also protects our cherished bird life. My cats have never minded being indoor-only.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    I just read that feral cats have life-spans not all that shorter than house cats. Cats are very resilient and crafty. Furthermore, indoor cats probably are less fit than feral cats, probably explaining why longevity isn't enhanced that much for the indoor ones. Cats, of all "large" land-based animals, are incredibly hardy and resourceful in a wide variety of situations and environments. We've all been around bobcats if you live near a decent sized woodland, but most people will never actually see one because they're dead still, or quietly slink away, when people get near them. And bobcats are seldom run over by cars, unlike virtually all other kinds of mammals and rodents that exist in decent numbers. I grew up near fields and woodlands, and have never seen a bobcat to this day.

    Cats who wander off keep a low-profile. They aren't taken in by strangers, or reported to animal control like dogs are. They eventually come back. No big deal.

    Yeah, "wild" males are supposed to spray more often. Not that I want my house to be the testing site for that notion.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    If they're declawed, it's dangerous (for them) to be let outside.
    , @EliteCommInc.
    We work all of the cats we rescued to be indoor. Though one or two were permitted out and rarely strayed far from home. And certainly no declawing.


    Cats spray for many reasons, scenting and it can be indications that they are not well.
  125. @Rosie

    The two cats I’ve lived with since I’ve been a teenager seldom “sprayed”, not until both were dying did they start to pee outside the litter box.
     
    Isn't "spraying" something only unaltered males do?

    The stress of dog “escapes” is very nerve-wracking. Cats, on the other hand, can wander off for many hours but will eventually reappear, and owners don’t mind.
     
    Good Lord. I would be an absolute nervous wreck if one of my cats wandered off. I keep them strictly indoors. It protects them from diseases like taxoplasmosis (bad for pregnant women) and also protects our cherished bird life. My cats have never minded being indoor-only.

    I just read that feral cats have life-spans not all that shorter than house cats. Cats are very resilient and crafty. Furthermore, indoor cats probably are less fit than feral cats, probably explaining why longevity isn’t enhanced that much for the indoor ones. Cats, of all “large” land-based animals, are incredibly hardy and resourceful in a wide variety of situations and environments. We’ve all been around bobcats if you live near a decent sized woodland, but most people will never actually see one because they’re dead still, or quietly slink away, when people get near them. And bobcats are seldom run over by cars, unlike virtually all other kinds of mammals and rodents that exist in decent numbers. I grew up near fields and woodlands, and have never seen a bobcat to this day.

    Cats who wander off keep a low-profile. They aren’t taken in by strangers, or reported to animal control like dogs are. They eventually come back. No big deal.

    Yeah, “wild” males are supposed to spray more often. Not that I want my house to be the testing site for that notion.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    I just read that feral cats have life-spans not all that shorter than house cats. Cats are very resilient and crafty. Furthermore, indoor cats probably are less fit than feral cats, probably explaining why longevity isn’t enhanced that much for the indoor ones.
     
    Both cats and dogs are outdoor animals. They should sleep indoors and interact with humans often, but need outside time. Otherwise, no matter how big the house (or the fenced yard), they are in prison.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    I've seen a few on bike rides but at nowhere the rate of raccoons and coyotes. I think it has always been on account of them moving so who knows how many I've ridden by without noticing because they stayed still.
  126. @Feryl
    Cat hatred is endemic to sub-Saharan black people, who hate nature in general (as well they should, what with Africa to this day being over-run by large and dangerous animals). The MENA has always revered cats, probably because that's where they got domesticated (house cats to this day enjoy sunshine and sand).

    Literally killing many cats in Western Europe was a really, really stupid idea, because who wants the mouse and rat population to be even worse (and well-developed areas like Western Europe are always going to be over-run with vermin under the best of circumstances)?

    Christian Lander was a cat person who put dogs on his SWPL blog. Most cats are just generic cats, and rarely treated as a status symbol. Whereas dog owners often sperg out over breed/breed sub-type, and often pay big sums of money for a puppy.

    Dogs (most breeds) are pitiful and childish looking, which I find depressing. I don't feel as much pity for cats, who have more mature phenotypes (e.g., cat eyes are less large relative to the overall head size, in comparison to dogs). Dogs also have fairly large heads for their bodies, making them look more childish.

    Cat hatred is endemic to sub-Saharan black people, who hate nature in general (as well they should, what with Africa to this day being over-run by large and dangerous animals). The MENA has always revered cats, probably because that’s where they got domesticated (house cats to this day enjoy sunshine and sand).

    The first time I was in Bali, Indonesia eons ago, I asked the locals about what they would do if they ran over a cat with a vehicle. They told me they would go to the temple and make an offering to appease the spirit of the cat and be very sorry about the whole accident.

    “What if you ran over a dog?” “Oh, we don’t care about them.”

    Mangy-looking semi-feral “village” dogs were everywhere on the Island.

  127. @Feryl
    Cat people tend to like the wolf-ish dogs better. German Shepherds, Huskies, etc. These dogs don't look freakishly mutated like pit-bulls, pugs, and the like. Retrievers and collies are also fairly appealing in their appearance.

    Cat people tend to like the wolf-ish dogs better. German Shepherds, Huskies, etc. These dogs don’t look freakishly mutated like pit-bulls, pugs, and the like. Retrievers and collies are also fairly appealing in their appearance.

    Surely those are YOUR preferences.

    German Shepherds are not “wolfish” dogs. It is a heavily “constructed” breed that was subject to a lot of experimentation and selective breeding.

    Siberian Huskies ARE Northern Spitz-type dogs – along with Samoyeds, Japanese Akitas (not the highly hybridized American Akitas), Kai-Ken, Korean Jindo, Norwegian Elkhound, etc. They show several “wolfish” traits, such as being extremely fastidious. I happen to be quite partial to these kinds of dogs even though most are quite challenging to train. I like their “wildness.”

  128. @Feryl
    Dogs are less independent, though, and much more bumbling/oafish than cats. Dog whining is incredibly grating, and always pushed my blood pressure up. Cats typically are not vocally annoying; the only time their meows really bother you is if you get woken up while sleeping.

    Dog whining is incredibly grating

    Not to me. I find it quite endearing. But I am a pretty crazed “dog” person. I usually prefer their company to that of most people.

  129. @Feryl
    I just read that feral cats have life-spans not all that shorter than house cats. Cats are very resilient and crafty. Furthermore, indoor cats probably are less fit than feral cats, probably explaining why longevity isn't enhanced that much for the indoor ones. Cats, of all "large" land-based animals, are incredibly hardy and resourceful in a wide variety of situations and environments. We've all been around bobcats if you live near a decent sized woodland, but most people will never actually see one because they're dead still, or quietly slink away, when people get near them. And bobcats are seldom run over by cars, unlike virtually all other kinds of mammals and rodents that exist in decent numbers. I grew up near fields and woodlands, and have never seen a bobcat to this day.

    Cats who wander off keep a low-profile. They aren't taken in by strangers, or reported to animal control like dogs are. They eventually come back. No big deal.

    Yeah, "wild" males are supposed to spray more often. Not that I want my house to be the testing site for that notion.

    I just read that feral cats have life-spans not all that shorter than house cats. Cats are very resilient and crafty. Furthermore, indoor cats probably are less fit than feral cats, probably explaining why longevity isn’t enhanced that much for the indoor ones.

    Both cats and dogs are outdoor animals. They should sleep indoors and interact with humans often, but need outside time. Otherwise, no matter how big the house (or the fenced yard), they are in prison.

  130. Anon[997] • Disclaimer says:
    @Haxo Angmark
    Blacks and other genetic racial inferiors are notoriously cruel to animals,

    even companion animals like dogs and cats. Obwandiyag

    should aliyah to Wakandaland where

    it can make love to Ebola-chan.

    Before Whites turned gay, they didn’t treat animals as surrogate children and consider the treatment of animals to be some sort of aspect or feature of their identities. They were cool and not gay, and did things like fox tossing and cat burning for fun.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_tossing

    Fox tossing (German: Fuchsprellen) was a popular competitive blood sport in parts of Europe in the 17th and 18th centuries, which involved throwing live foxes and other animals high into the air…The result was often fatal for the tossed animal. Augustus II the Strong, the King of Poland and Elector of Saxony, held a famous tossing contest in Dresden at which 647 foxes, 533 hares, 34 badgers and 21 wildcats were tossed and killed.[3] Augustus himself participated, reportedly demonstrating his strength by holding the end of his sling by just one finger, with two of the strongest men in his court on the other end. Other rulers also participated in the sport. The Swedish envoy Esaias Pufendorf, witnessing a fox-tossing contest held in Vienna in March 1672, noted in his diary his surprise at seeing the Holy Roman Emperor Leopold I enthusiastically joining the court dwarfs and boys in clubbing to death the injured animals; he commented that it was remarkable to see the emperor having “small boys and fools as comrades, [which] was to my eyes a little alien from the imperial gravity.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_burning

    Cat burning was a form of entertainment in France prior to the 1800s. In this form of entertainment, people would gather dozens of cats in a net and hoist them high into the air from a special bundle onto a bonfire causing death through the effects of combustion, or effects of exposure to extreme heat.

  131. @obwandiyag
    It has been empirically verified that all pet owners are assholes.

    I identify.

  132. @Twinkie

    Indian
     
    I live in an area that has experienced a massive increase in the Indian population in the past ten years. When my family and I go for a walk with some of our dogs to the local ice cream shop, there are always some Indian parents and children outside the shop who recoil in horror at the dogs as if they were Bengal tigers and scoop up their kids and leap away. Apparently no one told them about triggering a prey instinct in predators with such movements.

    I usually get cheeky and say to my wife, “That’s probably the most athletic they have ever been in their whole lives.”

    Most white and East Asian kids ask to pet the dogs, and the dogs happily receive the pets from them and give them some licks in return especially if the hands have some ice cream debris.

    Bro, you guys have nothing on some Indians when it comes to dogs. They be marryin’ their daughters off to them:

    OK, OK – so it’s just so some curse will eventually end up on the dog, but still!!!

    Peace.

  133. @Toronto Russian
    What's wrong with that? They're surely kept for aesthetics, not for companionship. Like a little more interesting house plants.

    They’re surely kept for aesthetics, not for companionship.

    Not necessarily true.
    My father has a friend in England who knows another guy who owns some kind of python. That snake guy took his python with him into bed, to cuddle with it, and thought the snake was trying to cuddle him back.
    He later told a veterinarian about the behaviour of his snake. The vet grew serious and said “Your snake didn’t try to show you affection, it showed the behaviour that’s typical when it prepares to attack prey”.
    There really are people deranged enough to believe they can have a relationship with their scaly friends.

    • Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    Your snake didn’t try to show you affection, it showed the behaviour that’s typical when it prepares to attack prey
     
    Same thing with our lunatic immigration systems. These white liberals really think Muslim immigrants love tolerance and want to work with the other tolerant Hindus and Africans, and also love them.

    I will be bitten by the same snake as them, but at least I saw it coming, and got many years of misery waiting for it, I suppose.
  134. @Toronto Russian

    My mother did the same with her most beloved dog growing up. He came limping into the backyard covered in ticks. She spent hours removing them, bathing the dog, feeding it, then it slept for a full day (supposedly) and now it lives on in her mind as the most wonderful creature to have ever walked the earth.
     
    It could have rabies though. Parents shouldn't allow kids to touch unknown animals, they can infect you even with a lick not a bite. My grandfather was bitten by a neighbor's dog and underwent 40 rabies shots in a hospital (the modern treatment is only 5-6 shots). The dog turned out to be healthy, but you never know.

    A technical issue: it takes hours for new comments to load. Currently this page has only 87 that I can see, and the main page says there's 93.

    A technical issue: it takes hours for new comments to load. Currently this page has only 87 that I can see, and the main page says there’s 93.

    It must have something to do with cookies. Try writing a comment yourself (e.g. “test”, then delete it immediately afterwards), that’s generally sufficient for me to get new comments to show.

  135. @Audacious Epigone
    I know people with lots of chickens who are leftists.

    The image of an idyllic farmstead in Vermont comes to my mind.

    The image of a puerto rican in the bronx comes to mind.

  136. @Rosie

    The two cats I’ve lived with since I’ve been a teenager seldom “sprayed”, not until both were dying did they start to pee outside the litter box.
     
    Isn't "spraying" something only unaltered males do?

    The stress of dog “escapes” is very nerve-wracking. Cats, on the other hand, can wander off for many hours but will eventually reappear, and owners don’t mind.
     
    Good Lord. I would be an absolute nervous wreck if one of my cats wandered off. I keep them strictly indoors. It protects them from diseases like taxoplasmosis (bad for pregnant women) and also protects our cherished bird life. My cats have never minded being indoor-only.

    If they’re declawed, it’s dangerous (for them) to be let outside.

  137. @Feryl
    I just read that feral cats have life-spans not all that shorter than house cats. Cats are very resilient and crafty. Furthermore, indoor cats probably are less fit than feral cats, probably explaining why longevity isn't enhanced that much for the indoor ones. Cats, of all "large" land-based animals, are incredibly hardy and resourceful in a wide variety of situations and environments. We've all been around bobcats if you live near a decent sized woodland, but most people will never actually see one because they're dead still, or quietly slink away, when people get near them. And bobcats are seldom run over by cars, unlike virtually all other kinds of mammals and rodents that exist in decent numbers. I grew up near fields and woodlands, and have never seen a bobcat to this day.

    Cats who wander off keep a low-profile. They aren't taken in by strangers, or reported to animal control like dogs are. They eventually come back. No big deal.

    Yeah, "wild" males are supposed to spray more often. Not that I want my house to be the testing site for that notion.

    I’ve seen a few on bike rides but at nowhere the rate of raccoons and coyotes. I think it has always been on account of them moving so who knows how many I’ve ridden by without noticing because they stayed still.

  138. @German_reader

    They’re surely kept for aesthetics, not for companionship.
     
    Not necessarily true.
    My father has a friend in England who knows another guy who owns some kind of python. That snake guy took his python with him into bed, to cuddle with it, and thought the snake was trying to cuddle him back.
    He later told a veterinarian about the behaviour of his snake. The vet grew serious and said "Your snake didn't try to show you affection, it showed the behaviour that's typical when it prepares to attack prey".
    There really are people deranged enough to believe they can have a relationship with their scaly friends.

    Your snake didn’t try to show you affection, it showed the behaviour that’s typical when it prepares to attack prey

    Same thing with our lunatic immigration systems. These white liberals really think Muslim immigrants love tolerance and want to work with the other tolerant Hindus and Africans, and also love them.

    I will be bitten by the same snake as them, but at least I saw it coming, and got many years of misery waiting for it, I suppose.

  139. @Audacious Epigone
    Wow, very cool.

    I have an acquaintance who bought a house and inherited chickens a few years ago. For some reason he had to kill the rooster (maybe because he didn't want more?) so he had a couple of beers, grab it by the neck, and twirled it around until it broke and after fluttering around for awhile the rooster died.

    Now that I think about it, I'm not sure why he felt like he 'had' to kill it that way. Seems unnecessarily brutal to me, but he'd studied up on it some and found that's the way it's generally done.

    Now that I think about it, I’m not sure why he felt like he ‘had’ to kill it that way. Seems unnecessarily brutal to me, but he’d studied up on it some and found that’s the way it’s generally done.

    That’s quite strange. Usually people who steal chickens are described killing them this way, having no time or place for a proper beheading. In America as well as elsewhere an axe was used:

  140. @Audacious Epigone
    Indeed. A cat's only utility beyond the emotional is in catching rodents (or birds if they are a problem, I suppose).

    Ha. Not so.

    The first time I was whacked by a car while riding my bike. Two of my cats spent days lying on my chest when I was hit and fell to the street.

    Literally pawed at the very spot and then layed across my chest until the welling dissipated . Two cats did this routinely. It was as if they took turns. The fact that layed across the the area where i am sure I had cracked or severely bruised ribs — was more than emotional time sharing.

    To this day, I claim they saved my life.

  141. @Rosie

    The two cats I’ve lived with since I’ve been a teenager seldom “sprayed”, not until both were dying did they start to pee outside the litter box.
     
    Isn't "spraying" something only unaltered males do?

    The stress of dog “escapes” is very nerve-wracking. Cats, on the other hand, can wander off for many hours but will eventually reappear, and owners don’t mind.
     
    Good Lord. I would be an absolute nervous wreck if one of my cats wandered off. I keep them strictly indoors. It protects them from diseases like taxoplasmosis (bad for pregnant women) and also protects our cherished bird life. My cats have never minded being indoor-only.

    We work all of the cats we rescued to be indoor. Though one or two were permitted out and rarely strayed far from home. And certainly no declawing.

    Cats spray for many reasons, scenting and it can be indications that they are not well.

  142. @Audacious Epigone
    Cats, feral creatures that they are, can only be tamed, never truly domesticated!

    I hate to be so dog gone contrary. But that is not necessarily true. Of the feryls cats we rescued all but two failed to be fully domesticated. And that includes a huge orange cat that would wonder into out garage and whom became a beloved best pal and ruler of the joint. He arrived taut and muscular grew so comfy he got fat and developed diabetes, He recovered as we learned how to respond, but we have photos with him imitating me asleep or maybe I was imitating him.

    Not only were nearly all of our cats domesticated, the mother who arrived pregnant actually taught her kittens to use the litter. that really happened . . . we’ve learned a lot from our cats and we are careful not to accept everything Vets say on the subject.

  143. or maybe I was imitating him

    “When I am playing with my cat, how do I know she is not playing with me?” – some deceased French philosopher dude

    I liked your story about the cats helping you heal. Our Siberian also knows when my wife is sick and stays by her side until she gets better. He also treats our youngest son like a little brother since they were both born around the same time and were both crawling around the floor together. Anytime my youngest dips his head towards our cat, he starts licking and grooming him.

    The first time he got out, he was lost for close to a week. He eventually came back, having lost some weight, but I guess he must have eaten his fair share of birds and small animals during the time – a habit he seems to keep up with to this day (not fun finding a decapitated bird in your backyard, but what can one do). It’s nice to know he still has that ability to hunt and is not totally dependent on us.

    Wonderful creatures.

    Peace.

  144. Well,

    the kittens which are now cats have absolutely no clue what life is like exposed as the other adoptees. Laughing. They are spoiled rotten and have created more work than their wonderfulness warrants. I don’t think I have gone two days in which carpet floor cleaner and constant laundering takes up time —–

    But I think my housemate and I are satisfied that we have contributed financially in big ways to the greater community by reducing the number of ferrel cats.

  145. Well, we have a cadre of kittens, we call them kittens, but they are years older now that wear their wonderfulness out quite often with cleaning of floors, carpets and blankets.

    Here’s a managerie of animals that have visited out yard front or back;

    squirrels, raccoons, coyotes, possums, a fox, deer, bobcat, rabbits, birds of various types, geese (heading who knows where, several years ago a pair of cranes visited across the street, mice (but that was years and years ago), and of course cats and an occasional dog (usually a break out of someone in the neighborhood) we appreciate nature around here and rarely even kill a spider ( bw’s being an exception – having been bitten – no fun – laugh though even they can get a reprieve on occasion, along with scorpions)

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    I think my housemate and I have done more than our fare share of community service and dollars spent pushing back against the ferrel cat population.


    And it's been rewarding -- well mostly.
  146. @EliteCommInc.
    Well, we have a cadre of kittens, we call them kittens, but they are years older now that wear their wonderfulness out quite often with cleaning of floors, carpets and blankets.


    Here's a managerie of animals that have visited out yard front or back;

    squirrels, raccoons, coyotes, possums, a fox, deer, bobcat, rabbits, birds of various types, geese (heading who knows where, several years ago a pair of cranes visited across the street, mice (but that was years and years ago), and of course cats and an occasional dog (usually a break out of someone in the neighborhood) we appreciate nature around here and rarely even kill a spider ( bw's being an exception - having been bitten - no fun - laugh though even they can get a reprieve on occasion, along with scorpions)

    I think my housemate and I have done more than our fare share of community service and dollars spent pushing back against the ferrel cat population.

    And it’s been rewarding — well mostly.

  147. @Mr McKenna
    My dog came along as a stray, starving and near death. According to several of the guys here apparently I should have let her die, lest it reflect poorly upon my masculinity. This doesn't speak well of AE's readership IMHO.

    I should have let her die, lest it reflect poorly upon my masculinity

    Theres nothing masculine about allowing a dog to suffer. Perhaps you should have euthanized the animal, but small dogs are often very useful for alarming their humans and/or larger dogs that can do more than bite ankles. I think what others who have commented about the subject meant was the type of “man” who mollycoddles a pathetic barking cat. There is indeed nothing masculine about a “man” with a barking cat on his lap sharing a bowl of ice cream watching Sex in the City reruns.

  148. @Haxo Angmark
    Blacks and other genetic racial inferiors are notoriously cruel to animals,

    even companion animals like dogs and cats. Obwandiyag

    should aliyah to Wakandaland where

    it can make love to Ebola-chan.

    Blacks and other genetic racial inferiors are notoriously cruel to animals,

    First, it’s highly likely that we co-evolved with our animals as we domesticated them.

    Second, it’s not at all clear that negroes are inferior from an evolutionary standpoint. They’re less intelligent (as we define it) and empathetic, more prone to chaotic violence and disease, but Nature cares only for survival and nothing whatsoever for human constructs like civilization, architecture, and science. In that regard, consider that today negroes are objects of adoration and adulation in Europe and America, that they’ve trained white people to feed, clothe, and house them while providing unimaginable luxuries like air conditioning and plumbing. They’re granted legal privileges well beyond those given to whites with mandated discrimination in their favor as well as forgiveness of criminality. With the forecast for over 4 Billion Africans by 2100 and sub-replacement white birth rates everywhere, it’s hardly inconceivable that whites will go extinct and negroes shall inherit the earth. That is pretty good evidence of negro superiority.

    • LOL: Twinkie
    • Replies: @Truth

    That is pretty good evidence of negro superiority.
     
    Well, welcome to the party, Stanley; it took damn long enough.
  149. @Audacious Epigone
    Schoolmarm disapproves of "genetic racial inferiors". Don't make me give you the Vox Day treatment, pal!

    Don’t make me give you the Vox Day treatment

    What? You’re going to transform into a smug sanctimonious fag talentless hack writer with pathetically thin skin? A pale Ta’Neezy Coates?

  150. @Jay Fink
    I don't like how dogs smell fear. The badass who is going to rob your home has no fear. People who show fear tend to be kind and harmless.

    The badass who is going to rob your home has no fear

    Given that my dogs outweigh him, he’s less a badass than a moron. But I don’t believe your assertion that he wouldn’t fear my dogs.

  151. Non-moderate dog owners skew towards conservative, and probably pickup trucks, too whereas non-moderate cat owners are equally likely to be conservative or liberal.

  152. @Stan d Mute

    Blacks and other genetic racial inferiors are notoriously cruel to animals,
     
    First, it’s highly likely that we co-evolved with our animals as we domesticated them.

    Second, it’s not at all clear that negroes are inferior from an evolutionary standpoint. They’re less intelligent (as we define it) and empathetic, more prone to chaotic violence and disease, but Nature cares only for survival and nothing whatsoever for human constructs like civilization, architecture, and science. In that regard, consider that today negroes are objects of adoration and adulation in Europe and America, that they’ve trained white people to feed, clothe, and house them while providing unimaginable luxuries like air conditioning and plumbing. They’re granted legal privileges well beyond those given to whites with mandated discrimination in their favor as well as forgiveness of criminality. With the forecast for over 4 Billion Africans by 2100 and sub-replacement white birth rates everywhere, it’s hardly inconceivable that whites will go extinct and negroes shall inherit the earth. That is pretty good evidence of negro superiority.

    That is pretty good evidence of negro superiority.

    Well, welcome to the party, Stanley; it took damn long enough.

    • Replies: @Talha
    LOL! Welcome to the terrordome!

    http://thesource.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/fearofablkplanet.jpg

    Peace.

  153. @Truth

    That is pretty good evidence of negro superiority.
     
    Well, welcome to the party, Stanley; it took damn long enough.

    LOL! Welcome to the terrordome!

    Peace.

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