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DforDoom is true to his handle:

How many people do you honestly think are going to risk arrest, getting fired from their jobs and never being able to get another job and having their entire lives ruined for the sake of resisting the Cultural Revolution?

Right-wingers have been predicting a massive conservative backlash for years. Such a backlash seems less likely every year.

There has been nothing like a massive backlash in South Africa, and the situation is far more dire there.

On the other hand, the Afrikaners are facing hard repression. That’s not the case in America, where things are by necessity softer. If the hundreds of millions of Americans who want this Woke madness to end simply refused to go along with it, it would end.

Practically, lawfare is the best option in the near term. Kansas State University nearly made a young video game streamer as rich as Nick Sandmann by acting as though cultural consequences and legal consequences are the same thing. If you’re a victim of a Woke witch hunt and you’re not suing everyone who had a hand in it, you’re not doing things right.

Over the longer term, civil rights legislation needs to be expanded to protect political orientation. Political orientation is a heritable inborn characteristic, the manifestations of which are clearly protected under the US Constitution by the bill of rights.

SafeNow on the squeaky wheel getting the grease:

The Yale president’s occupied-office event illustrates why. Screaming diversity in your office is no fun. Okay, he says, here’s $50 million. Office peace is now restored. And here’s the key point: It was not his $50 million; he is not personally and tangibly harmed.

Northaming is what Goodwhites do when the Woke mob prepares to burn them at the stake. They pay the BLaMegeld with other people’s resources and then promise to stick it to powerless Badwhites to prove their contrition.

Nebulafox on how rather than being an engine of economic growth, slavery is an economic retardant:

Slavery was an archaic economic system that was requiring increasing amounts of state resources to artificially maintain by the mid-19th Century. Even some eventual Confederate leaders-among them Lee-recognized this and favored gradual, long-term dismantlement prior to the war, even if they continued to believe in white supremacy and a racial caste system. Of course, this dismantlement was to take place under Southern control according to a Southern timeline, and the North was already disgruntled about having their tax dollars spent propping up the plantation system without them having a say in anything. The fact that slavery was being artificially propped up for the benefit of a minority of agrarian plutocrats was one of the big factors behind the Civil War in the first place: not as big as the spread of slavery to new territories, but a crucial factor nonetheless.

Should the Confederacy have succeeded-and it could have-it would have likely become a backwater rural dystopia that would have held onto the system as long as possible, given the ideological conditioning caused by the war. Slavery was not some engine of economic growth: it was a deeply retarding force. That’s why 1619-esque arguments about slavery being the engine of America’s success are so ludicrous. If that were true, Brazil would be mega-Switzerland right now.

The institution of slavery was everywhere a feature of the human landscape until the latter part of the 18th century. It is the ending of slavery rather than its perpetuation that corresponds with economic growth and dynamism.

Many of the same problems slavery sustained two centuries ago are buttressed by unskilled illegal alien labor today. Both lead to massive wealth disparities, resources devoted to perpetually chasing cheap human labor instead of investing in productivity innovations, and inequities in civil rights protections among people living in the same country.

 
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  1. Daniel H says:

    Over the longer term, civil rights legislation needs to be expanded to protect political orientation.

    But it won’t be. Because demographics, the Dems will take the Presidency in 2020 and never relinquish it. Congress will follow suit in 0-12 years. The Dems will never even consider legislation that eases the pain of alt existence in America. The United States of America is in for a one party system at the national level….forever, or until the Dems factionalize where we will have one totally corrupt and less insane party contesting one totally corrupt and insane party.

    I guess we can hope for protections at the state level. Things turned around, the states protecting minority civil rights from the tyrannical, federal majority.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  2. Right-wingers have been predicting a massive conservative backlash for years. Such a backlash seems less likely every year.

    Not exactly. The correct terminology here is not so much “backlash” as it is “day of reckoning.” The point is not that the mass of people are going to change their minds and start acting in conscientious conformity with perennial truths, but that the consequences of their actions are certain to bring them to destruction. Eventually we all have to reap what we have sown.

    Apropos of this, I find it absolutely fascinating what that constellation of rackets known as American socioeconomic life has been doing to itself lately. Off the top of my head I will name four particularly odious, rent-seeking parasites whose recent behavior invites curiosity, those being:

    1) The healthcare/eldercare system, including public and private pensions;
    2) Public schools and universities;
    3) The stock market; and,
    4) Professional sports.

    All these entities, whose ascent to their current positions bespeaks a very unserious population, are now steadily demolishing themselves, cutting the very ground out from beneath their strongholds. And why? Not because they were argued against with superior ides; not even because they were defeated by brute force; not because anybody changed their minds; but through self-inflicted insanity over a mostly harmless Covid-19 outbreak. The nonsense had risen up and strangled itself.

    I continue to marvel at the works of God as I watch these swindles come a cropper. Not only does it confirm that “great is truth and it prevaileth,” but it also demonstrates that God always gives space for mercy. After 30 or 40 years of this garbage, nobody can go into eternity saying that they didn’t understand what they were doing. They had ample opportunities to repent; they chose their destruction anyhow.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    , @iffen
  3. dfordoom says: • Website

    If the hundreds of millions of Americans who want this Woke madness to end simply refused to go along with it, it would end.

    The problem is that there aren’t hundreds of millions of Americans who want the Woke madness (or the PC madness) to end. Most people are perfectly OK with the social and cultural revolutions of the past half century.

    The vast majority of people accept the feminist agenda almost in its entirety. The vast majority of people accept most of the LGBT agenda. They’re fine with sodomy as a sacred sacrament. They’re fine with recognising men in frocks as women. All but a tiny handful of people accept the Sexual Revolution as having been a good thing. Most people do not see porn as a major problem.

    The vast majority of people believe racism is evil. Most of them believe that non-whites, and especially blacks, really have had a raw deal. The vast majority of people believe that any return to segregation would be totally evil. Most people believe that BLM is at least partly correct in its claims that cops are overly prone to shooting blacks.

    The vast majority of people believe that immigration is a very good thing economically, morally and culturally.

    The vast majority of people believe that crime is caused by social problems rather than by race.

    That enormous Silent Majority that right-wingers think is going to lead an anti-PC anti-Woke backlash simply does not exist. The really strong opposition to the SJW/Woke agenda is confined to quite a small minority.

    • Agree: SIMP simp
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @nebulafox
    , @gate666
    , @anon
  4. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Daniel H

    But it won’t be. Because demographics, the Dems will take the Presidency in 2020 and never relinquish it.

    Demographics is only a small part of the problem. The real problem is a generational one. If the Dems retain the White House indefinitely it will be due to the votes of Millennials and Zoomers.

    • Replies: @216
  5. Twinkie says:
    @dfordoom

    The problem is that there aren’t hundreds of millions of Americans who want the Woke madness (or the PC madness) to end. Most people are perfectly OK with the social and cultural revolutions of the past half century.

    You know this how?

    Don’t confuse the politeness and go-alongness of ordinary people with satisfaction and approval. How do you think Trump was elected?

    Right-wingers have been predicting a massive conservative backlash

    People who predicted the backlash against communism were wrong for decades… until they weren’t.

    Just as communism contained within it the seeds of its own destruction, the current Woke-madness is also unsustainable. Wait until med schools pack their student bodies with blacks and they start killing patients. Do you think people will just go along? Parents get incredibly angry when their children have bad outcomes (even when the doctors are not at fault) – imagine when incompetent black doctors kill their kids on operating tables.

    Heck, imagine when little girls start getting molested by “transgenders“ in bathrooms.

    There is an enormous crisis of legitimacy that our political class, economic elites, and major institutions face right now. Many people are very unhappy for a variety of reasons. I can’t predict when or if the current system is going to come crashing down, but it doesn’t take a genius to realize that ideological conflict and cultural rancor will increase in this country. You can only tell people to stop believing their own lying eyes for so long, especially if living standards start declining. Even if there is no “massive backlash,” there will be cultural insurgents who refuse to go along who will command considerable sympathy.

  6. It is the ending of slavery rather than its perpetuation that corresponds with economic growth and dynamism.

    Slavery wasn’t ended; it was merely re-engineered and is constantly being tweaked, to wit the 16th Amendment, Microsoft Teams, etc.

    • Agree: Adam Smith
  7. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Twinkie

    Don’t confuse the politeness and go-alongness of ordinary people with satisfaction and approval.

    Going-alongness is all that’s needed. People don’t have to feel satisfaction and approval. All that is needed is for people to be basically OK with the situation. And I think people are much more OK with political correctness and Wokeness than right-wingers think.

    Both Brexit and the election of Trump were interesting. People were annoyed enough to express their annoyance at the ballot box but that’s as far as they felt they needed to go.

    That’s why the Social Justice Left is not terribly interested in elections. They know that in order to change the culture you need to do a hell of a lot more than cast a ballot, or wear a MAGA hat. There are zero signs that the opponents of SJW/Wokeness understand this.

    • Replies: @Gordo
    , @Twinkie
    , @V. K. Ovelund
  8. Gordo says:
    @dfordoom

    They know that in order to change the culture you need to do a hell of a lot more than cast a ballot, or wear a MAGA hat.

    As Harold Covington said, White people are waiting for a permission slip to do something.

  9. @Intelligent Dasein

    “the consequences of their actions are certain to bring them to destruction. Eventually we all have to reap what we have sown.”

    No, they’ll just decamp to other countries. Or, you never know, by then they may be able to get China and the EU to invade or bomb for “humanitarian reasons”, as in Syria, Libya, Serbia.

    Not trying to blackpill, just being realistic about the future possibilities.

  10. No, ‘lawfare’ is not really a viable option, tho some people like Sandmann etc get lucky and their cases are allowed to go through, in part to give false hopes to litigants, and in part because the circumstances of the case, media prominence etc, give a pathway to a rare victory

    Think of how many times we have all read of some lawsuit being filed on some big issue with good evidence, and then you never hear about it again

    US politically-connected lawyers have a saying, ‘Case dismissed, motherf-cker.’

    The first thing the oligarchy moves to control aside from the media, are the judges

    People find they usually cannot get a lawyer to take such cases on contingency, because trial lawyers see the odds … and in really ‘hot’ expose-the-system matters, lawyers will be dis-barred, lose their law licence, if they make a filing, so they won’t even dare present certain kinds of matters

    Sometimes sure if you have tens of thousands to throw away, a grinning lawyer will pocket the cash, and the judge will spin out the case for a year or two before dismissal so the lawyer can collect, and maybe share a bribe with the judge helping to take the client’s funds

    As famous as James Fields was after Charlottesville, and with such good evidence for his defence given the violent life-threatening attacks on him by antifa, not a single lawyer in the USA was brave enough to defend him and get the free publicity … Fields got railroaded and sabotaged by a corrupt-seeming ‘public defender’ with ties to the local prosecutor mafia

    It’s not reasonable to expect justice from US courts in these kinds of matters, or asking for criminal prosecutions of the wrong-doers

    Judges dismiss most cases easily and casually and frequently, if the complainant is viewed as without influence and not in line with the oligarch agenda

    Judges can be removed by a fake scandal or some real bribery the authorities know about and have in their files, or shot dead in the street like Fed Judge John Roll was in Arizona in 2011 after he ruled against Obama, or end up dead like Supreme Court Justice Scalia with a pillow over his face in 2016, after Scalia ruled against Barack

    Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts is said to be blackmailed because of his violation of international child-trafficking laws in the 1990s, when he bought two children from Ireland and closed the deal in Latin America to evade Irish and EU law … that’s why he rules so strangely, they say, they own him, and the blackmail lever is part of why they picked him

    The US Supreme Court never even listens to an argument in 99% of all cases filed there … literally and seriously, they are nearly all simply rejected

    It’s all ‘legal’ because the person in the black robe said so

    • Agree: Adam Smith
  11. Franz says:

    There has been nothing like a massive backlash in South Africa, and the situation is far more dire there.

    Backlash was an overrated concept as far back as the mid-1960s. George Lincoln Rockwell told his followers that if he wasn’t elected in 1972, white America was finished. Instead, Rockwell was dead in 1972 and the oil crisis a year later made everyone focus on other things, just as COVID19 is doing now.

    White people obey laws to a suicidal extreme. What shock will cause them to behave otherwise has not yet been identified.

  12. nebulafox says:

    >There has been nothing like a massive backlash in South Africa, and the situation is far more dire there.

    The Afrikaners were never more than 20% of South Africa. However much Mark Potok wishes it were otherwise, American whites are not even close to being that small a percentage of the populace.

    Of course, a major difference is that the most radical people out there are UMC whites or “honorary whites”, if that makes sense… and they are the real ideological driving force in the Democratic Party.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @216
  13. nebulafox says:
    @dfordoom

    >Most people are perfectly OK with the social and cultural revolutions of the past half century.

    I think there’s a lot of ground between “we can and should go back to the way things were in 1960” and “we should embrace DeAngeloism”.

    • Agree: Not Only Wrathful
  14. unit472 says:

    Were nearing a system collapse that is going to sweep away a lot of the dead wood in our society. Take academia. With classes moving on line due to covid who in the world is going to pay $60,000 per year to attend a toney private university when all you need is a Zoom password to take the same course for nothing? The cachet of attending Stanford or Harvard evaporates if you take your classes remotely. Its the University of Phoenix model.

    People have discovered the public school system is nothing but a feeding center for children and a jobs program for low quality adults. No reason to pay vast amounts of money to maintain this system of state propaganda. In fact it won’t even be possible. Look at your school bus drivers. Mostly older retired folk who are vulnerable to covid having to haul around a bunch of kids likely to infect them. The job doesn’t pay enough to hire younger full time drivers so who will haul the children to school?

    We are looking at an economy that grows, at best by 1 or 2% per year owing to the debt overhang. The only way companies can survive is to downsize and what gets downsized. Employees. Same with state and local government. Tax revenue is in the toilet as food is not taxed and people can’t eat at restuarants so grocery store do ok but few other businesses. Pension costs are eating what little revenue comes in so those State and county building parking lots are going to be emptied out.

  15. Twinkie says:
    @dfordoom

    And I think people are much more OK with political correctness and Wokeness than right-wingers think.

    They had been… until there were blood on the streets and torched shopfronts. People stop going along when their children are assaulted and their homes and livelihood are burnt.

    Why do you think I keep saying that the best tactic for cultural insurgents isn’t to reason with the powers-that-be or to expose their hypocrisy (“They are the real racists!”), but to provoke them into behaving in ever more malevolent and oppressive manner?

    • Replies: @botazefa
  16. Twinkie says:
    @nebulafox

    This is really a white people civil war with PoCs as auxiliaries. GoodWhites vs. BadWhites.

    • Agree: dfordoom
    • Replies: @Talha
  17. gate666 says:
    @dfordoom

    you guys accepted trump who supported gay marriage in the past.

  18. Matt Forney says: • Website

    There has been nothing like a massive backlash in South Africa, and the situation is far more dire there.

    South Africans (and Rhodesians) didn’t need to have a backlash because they could just emigrate, which many of them did: to the U.S., Canada, Australia, and elsewhere. Neill Blomkamp’s (director of District 9) family went to Vancouver when the heat got to be too much.

    Where will Americans emigrate, I wonder, particularly given that many of the corona travel restrictions are being touted as the New Normal? Indefinite border closures, social distancing/mask requirements in airports/airplanes that will likely become permanent, the probable failure of many airlines (combined with proposed Green New Deal regulations that will make flying unaffordable except for the very rich), onerous citizenship-based taxation; it’s a neat coincidence that Cultural Revolution is ramping up in the U.S. at the same time the emigration option is becoming increasingly difficult. (Not for “refugees,” however. They’ll be able to flood any Western country they want. But if you’re a law-abiding, productive white American, where will you be able to go? South America isn’t looking too bad at the moment.)

  19. nebulafox says:
    @Matt Forney

    As always, it is the wealthy who can neatly emigrate elsewhere: in the wake of the anti-Chinese pogroms that accompanied Suharto’s fall in Indonesia, the wealthy immediately resettled in Singapore, but your average shopkeeper who largely was monolingual in Bahasa by this point anyway had to stay put and take the brunt of the attacks. Similarly, in South Africa, if you are some poor farmer, your options are more limited.

    But I really don’t think that South Africa is a remotely good comparison to the US. Again: the Afrikaners were never more than a fifth of South Africa, trying to utterly dominate people completely alien to them. It’s just different history, culture, and demographics.

  20. iffen says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    start acting in conscientious conformity with perennial truths

    Some years ago I planted some of these in my flower garden. It didn’t work out very well. I kept forgetting where I planted them and what they were. I just stick with annuals now.

  21. @The Alarmist

    Haha! Good way to put it, Alarmist.

    • Thanks: The Alarmist
  22. iffen says:

    Nothing will happen until some of the UMC start providing leadership to the proles, and that is nowhere close to happening, if it ever will, because the UMC has it pretty good and most of this upheaval will not have terrible consequences for them. Disruption of their commute is the most likely worst consequence.

    Trump provided leadership of a political nature, but was unable to pull together competent lieutenants and delegate authority. It’s pretty clear that he operates on the basis of personal loyalty and has no idea how to put together a leadership team.

  23. I appreciate the good discussion here by all*. This ought to be a good thread, but, as we’ve all seen, it’s hard to discuss concrete solutions. The idea by the elites is to clamp down on any of that discussion, forming of associations, or any of that stuff that Alexis de Tocqueville admired about Americans.

    Someone brought up S. America, and I have been taking seriously the idea of at least checking out the country of Uruguay, probably the best bet. Yes, bugging out it would be, “turning tail and running”, some might say.

    However, the question that I’ve been praying for guidance on (see more here) is not whether the good actually-patriotic Americans can beat down this Cultural Revolution and Totalitarianism and restore some semblance of a decent, conservative, country again. We definitely have that capability. The question for me and the 10-20 million or so (max!) almost-all-white men in this country that really know what needs to be done, is this: Is the country worth saving?

    I don’t mean the Constitutional Republic here. I don’t mean the land (which is the most beautiful and well-taken-care-of in one country in the world). I mean the rest of the people. Go into Wal-Mart, the fast-food joint, attend the sportsball event, or talk to some dude in the mask get-up at the TSA line, “it’s a shame, but this is what we need to do to save our freedoms!” Then there are the young people who know NOTHING about our history and what a Constitutional Republic is supposed to be about (really can’t blame them – I blame Big-Ed and their parents).

    If we somehow saved this place, would the rest of Americans be able to maintain anything other than an Idiocracy? Would they thank you with fireworks at some anniversary, or would all the struggle be for nothing?

    That’s the struggle in my mind about this.

    .

    * I don’t at all agree with DforDoom on his views on Socialism (seeing that is has been a major factor in putting us in this situation to begin with), and his views apparently come from Australia. Even so, we’ve kept it very civil, I appreciate his thoughts, and I even agree about 50% of the time, such as on this Kung Flu, and now BLM/antifa hysteria.

  24. @Achmed E. Newman

    I have been taking seriously the idea of at least checking out the country of Uruguay, probably the best bet.

    Uruguay is nice, but you might find yourself writing cheques to the Bush family for your water (they bought in Paraguay, but the acquifer their compound sits upon also supplies Uruguay).

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  25. Matt Forney says: • Website
    @nebulafox

    It’s actually not that expensive to emigrate, particularly if you don’t have a family. Emigrating to Europe cost me just a few hundred dollars in flights/baggage handling fees (helps that I went to Eastern Europe, which is much cheaper than the West). Thing is, coronavirus is probably going to lead to permanent/semi-permanent barriers to emigration for all but the wealthy (expensive flights due to climate change hysteria, airline failures, border closures/PCR tests etc.).

    I think South Africa is a pretty fair comparison to the U.S. seeing as Boers settled in South Africa in the 1600’s, the same time that Europeans settled the Thirteen Colonies. The main difference is that the U.S. was able to resist British domination and thus was allowed to deal with its indigenous population without outside interference, whereas Boers were repeatedly harassed/subjugated by the British (the Boer Wars etc.) and had to work with the hand they were dealt (South Africa became an independent dominion in 1910, but it was politically dominated by Anglos until after World War II; apartheid was a best-fit solution by Afrikaners within the system that existed for them).

  26. @The Alarmist

    I’ll keep the water bill in mind, semi-facestiously, Alarmist. I don’t think of that place as some idyllic beacon of freedom or anything, but it beats the Far East for a family, at least. It’s closer and the culture is quite a bit closer to ours, IMO. The people are 90% white, mostly (actual) Spaniards, Italians, Germans, etc.

    If there were some true freedom-oriented country still in the world, I’d have thought about bailing quite a while ago. There isn’t, and as Cadet Mayo told the Drill Sergeant, we’ve got no where else to go.

    BTW, a guy who uses the handle AaronInMVD here on unz, left the US in ’17 and has been living down there – he blogs (mostly local Uruguay news) on The Montevideo Standard.

    • Replies: @Znzn
  27. Znzn says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Chile? Argentina? All places south of Buenos Aires and Santiago seem to be pretty white.

    • Replies: @songbird
  28. @Matt Forney

    There are many countries, Canada and Panama among them, that allow people to more or less buy residence/citizenship. You need to invest in the country in order to get it, but it’s not that expensive. I believe in Canada it’s about half a million (Canadian) dollars.

    True, half a million is beyond the ability of most people to come up with, but it shouldn’t be that difficult for middle class/upper middle class Americans. What many immigrants do is just buy a franchise and then use that as the investment.

    I think it’s only about $50k that’s needed to get residence in Panama.

    • Replies: @A123
  29. botazefa says:
    @Twinkie

    Why do you think I keep saying that the best tactic for cultural insurgents isn’t to reason with the powers-that-be or to expose their hypocrisy (“They are the real racists!”), but to provoke them into behaving in ever more malevolent and oppressive manner?

    That seems to be the tactic fueling the rioting and looting. On a smaller scale, it’s the tactic Karens keep falling prey to.

  30. @Twinkie

    How do you think Trump was elected?

    Trump was very clear that he supports most of the globohomo agenda. In the real world most Trump voters do not consider him homophobic. His mentor (Roy Cohn) was gay, he publicly socializes with homosexuals, and he is from NYC after all. Has the Trump administration taken one step to reverse acceptance of gay marriage? Trump’s success was mostly based on economic issues, which immigration plays into, and people tired of being told not to tell dirty jokes or say „fag“ or „bitch“ if they felt like it. But he isn’t rolling back any of the left social agenda at a deep level.

    • Agree: Dutch Boy, dfordoom
    • Replies: @Dutch Boy
  31. fnn says:

    North Africans or black Africans?:
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8493895/Bus-driver-left-brain-dead-beaten-insisting-masks-France.html

    Bus driver is left brain dead after he was beaten up for refusing to let group of passengers without masks get on board in France

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  32. A123 says:

    If you’re a victim of a Woke witch hunt and you’re not suing everyone who had a hand in it, you’re not doing things right.

    Over the longer term, civil rights legislation needs to be expanded to protect political orientation. Political orientation is a heritable inborn characteristic, the manifestations of which are clearly protected under the US Constitution by the bill of rights.

    All of this requires judges who will uphold the Constitution. Trump’s Inevitable 2nd Term:
    — Will allow him to nominate another 200 judges for lower courts.
    — Should flip 2 or 3 more Supreme Court seats.

    When federal courts deliver 90% defeats to SJW Globalism instead of 90% wins the pendulum will begin swinging in the other direction. Some wins are already starting to occur:

    — The ‘Stay in Mexico’ asylum plan was supported by the SC.
    — Roberts temporary ruling on DACA was process based. The full write-up of his decision shows that Trump has the authority to end DACA.

    Don’t expect 100% of absolutely everything immediately. Those with unreasonable expectations will be disappointed. As the recent weird ruling from Gorsuch shows, occasionally Justices do odd things.
    ____

    Defeatism breeds defeat. The SJW’s are desperate for you to surrender, because they know they cannot win. They are beginning to turn on their own, which fortells the bloody end of any movement. Keep holding the line.

    There is 0% chance that a mental invalid & paedophile like Biden will win a fair election. The amount by of voter fraud required to fake a victory for Biden will be exposed and backfire. Not only will Trump take the White House, the post-election schism will shatter the SJW Globalist DNC coalition like an egg dropped from a skyscraper.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Dutch Boy
    , @Corvinus
  33. A123 says:
    @Johnny Smoggins

    There are many countries, Canada and Panama among them, that allow people to more or less buy residence/citizenship.

    Some places are pretty open about the buy in. Saint Kitts used to be ~$250K. Cyprus was a comparable amount, though there were some additional strings.

    Obtaining 2nd passport is not that hard, but unless you are rich you need a job at the other end.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Johnny Smoggins
  34. @A123

    In the case of Canada, you can “buy a job” by investing in a franchise and then making yourself the manager.

    But still, you need to be able to come up with about $500k (CAD) to get the ball rolling. Indians do this all the time with Subway franchises, which are a terrible investment by the way, but it gets them in regardless.

  35. truthman says:

    I do believe there is a potential majority for an immigration restrictionist message. There is a reason why those on the left are generally against moving to a Swiss style of direct democracy which would include national referenda on major subjects. I don’t believe the right wing would win all the battles in such a scenario, but would have a fighting shot if there ever were referenda on birthright citizenship, the visa lottery, overall reduction, border wall etc.

    • Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
  36. songbird says:
    @Znzn

    It’s changing. Lot of migration from Central America. A few years back the corrupt elite in Chile brought in >100,000 Haitians in order to pick fruit that they were selling to Americans. They would have been better off not selling it.

  37. Dutch Boy says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    I am amused by the conservative Christians who think Trump is some kind of Second Coming or new Constantine. The difference between Trump and his opponents is that they clearly loathe Christianity and Christians and Trump does not (although he is clearly not a Christian). The prospect of immense power in the hands of those who hate you was enough for many of us to swallow hard and vote for Trump. The disorder and tyranny of 2020 might motivate another hard swallow. Oremus!

  38. Dutch Boy says:
    @A123

    California has basically legalized voter fraud and there is a clear trend for other states to do the same. The elections won’t be fair but they will be legal.

    • Replies: @A123
  39. A123 says:
    @Dutch Boy

    California has basically legalized voter fraud and there is a clear trend for other states to do the same. The elections won’t be fair but they will be legal.

    Laws have to conform to the Constitution. Pro-fraud directives from California & other legislatures are Unconstitutional and therefore illegal.

    PEACE 😇

  40. For Americana fun, get the kids listening to “Those Were the Days,” @ 1-5 PM CST Saturdays WDCB. America Unashamed.

    https://wdcb.org/program-grid

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  41. @Twinkie

    “cultural insurgents who refuse to go along who will command considerable sympathy”

    Rich in sympathy but poor monetarily. The Maoist terrorists will call the insurgents terrorists. New laws will be written and the FBI, the American NKVD, will come for them.

    “if the current system is going to come crashing down”

    If the COVID fever dream lifts the economic damage will come into sharper focus. Destitution and debt may be the catalyst for clarity for Americans of all ethnicities who want to free their society from the chains of the totalitarian scumbags.

  42. Talha says:

    The institution of slavery was everywhere a feature of the human landscape until the latter part of the 18th century. It is the ending of slavery rather than its perpetuation that corresponds with economic growth and dynamism.

    Given the changes with the Industrial Revolution, this makes quite a bit of sense. Wasn’t it Aristotle who said something like; when looms can spin themselves and lyres can play themselves, the end of the slavery of man will be at hand.

    Peace.

  43. Passer by says:

    This is because westerners are cowards and cuckolds. You destroy the opposing force, you don’t allow it to take over step by step.

    I have more respect for an afghan goat herder fighting the combined NATO imperial militaries (Dune story anyone?) than for a bunch of degenerated westerners.

    Or a bunch of russians doing this in front of US Globohomo Embassy.

    View post on imgur.com

    You whine why did this happen to you.

    Answer – it is because you degenerated. You are not the same people that lived in the West 100 years ago. You are simply degenerates and don’t even deserve to be called “westerners”. And are (((they))) to blame? Who is to blame for having a weak immune system? The weak degenerated organism.

  44. Corvinus says:

    “Slavery was not some engine of economic growth: it was a deeply retarding force.”

    To the contrary…

    http://mshistorynow.mdah.state.ms.us/articles/161/cotton-in-a-global-economy-mississippi-1800-1860

    By 1860, Great Britain, the world’s most powerful country, had become the birthplace of the industrial revolution, and a significant part of that nation’s industry was cotton textiles. Nearly 4,000,000 of Britain’s total population of 21,000,000 were dependent on cotton textile manufacturing. Nearly forty percent of Britain’s exports were cotton textiles. Seventy-five percent of the cotton that supplied Britain’s cotton mills came from the American South, and the labor that produced that cotton came from slaves.

    Because of British demand, cotton was vital to the American economy. The Nobel Prize-winning economist, Douglass C. North, stated that cotton “was the most important proximate cause of expansion” in the 19th century American economy. Cotton accounted for over half of all American exports during the first half of the 19th century. The cotton market supported America’s ability to borrow money from abroad. It also fostered an enormous domestic trade in agricultural products from the West and manufactured goods from the East. In short, cotton helped tie the country together.

    New York City, not just Southern cities, was essential to the cotton world. By 1860, New York had become the capital of the South because of its dominant role in the cotton trade. New York rose to its preeminent position as the commercial and financial center of America because of cotton. It has been estimated that New York received forty percent of all cotton revenues since the city supplied insurance, shipping, and financing services and New York merchants sold goods to Southern planters. The trade with the South, which has been estimated at $200,000,000 annually, was an impressive sum at the time.

    https://www.pbs.org/wnet/african-americans-many-rivers-to-cross/history/why-was-cotton-king

    Let’s start with the value of the slave population. Steven Deyle shows that in 1860, the value of the slaves was “roughly three times greater than the total amount invested in banks,” and it was “equal to about seven times the total value of all currency in circulation in the country, three times the value of the entire livestock population, twelve times the value of the entire U.S. cotton crop and forty-eight times the total expenditure of the federal government that year.” As mentioned here in a previous column, the invention of the cotton gin greatly increased the productivity of cotton harvesting by slaves. This resulted in dramatically higher profits for planters, which in turn led to a seemingly insatiable increase in the demand for more slaves, in a savage, brutal and vicious cycle.

    Now, the value of cotton: Slave-produced cotton “brought commercial ascendancy to New York City, was the driving force for territorial expansion in the Old Southwest and fostered trade between Europe and the United States,” according to Gene Dattel. In fact, cotton productivity, no doubt due to the sharecropping system that replaced slavery, remained central to the American economy for a very long time: “Cotton was the leading American export from 1803 to 1937.

    What did cotton production and slavery have to do with Great Britain? The figures are astonishing. As Dattel explains: “Britain, the most powerful nation in the world, relied on slave-produced American cotton for over 80 per cent of its essential industrial raw material. English textile mills accounted for 40 percent of Britain’s exports. One-fifth of Britain’s twenty-two million people were directly or indirectly involved with cotton textiles.”

    And, finally, New England? As Ronald Bailey shows, cotton fed the textile revolution in the United States. “In 1860, for example, New England had 52 percent of the manufacturing establishments and 75 percent of the 5.14 million spindles in operation,” he explains. The same goes for looms. In fact, Massachusetts “alone had 30 percent of all spindles, and Rhode Island another 18 percent.” Most impressively of all, “New England mills consumed 283.7 million pounds of cotton, or 67 percent of the 422.6 million pounds of cotton used by U.S. mills in 1860.” In other words, on the eve of the Civil War, New England’s economy, so fundamentally dependent upon the textile industry, was inextricably intertwined, as Bailey puts it, “to the labor of black people working as slaves in the U.S. South.”

    https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/12/empire-of-cotton/383660

    By the time shots were fired on Fort Sumter in April 1861, cotton was the core ingredient of the world’s most important manufacturing industry. The manufacture of cotton yarn and cloth had grown into “the greatest industry that ever had or could by possibility have ever existed in any age or country,” according to the self-congratulatory but essentially accurate account of British cotton merchant John Benjamin Smith. By multiple measures—the sheer numbers employed, the value of output, profitability—the cotton empire had no parallel.

    One author boldly estimated that in 1862, fully 20 million people worldwide—one out of every 65 people alive—were involved in the cultivation of cotton or the production of cotton cloth. In England alone, which still counted two-thirds of the world’s mechanical spindles in its factories, the livelihood of between one-fifth and one-fourth of the population was based on the industry; one-tenth of all British capital was invested in it, and close to one-half of all exports consisted of cotton yarn and cloth. Whole regions of Europe and the United States had come to depend on a predictable supply of cheap cotton. Except for wheat, no “raw product,” so the Journal of the Statistical Society of London declared, had “so complete a hold upon the wants of the race.”…

    Slavery stood at the center of the most dynamic and far-reaching production complex in human history. Too often, we prefer to erase the realities of slavery, expropriation, and colonialism from the history of capitalism, craving a nobler, cleaner capitalism. Nineteenth-century observers, in contrast, were cognizant of cotton’s role in reshaping the world. Herman Merivale, British colonial bureaucrat, noted that Manchester’s and Liverpool’s “opulence is as really owing to the toil and suffering of the negro, as if his hands had excavated their docks and fabricated their steam-engines.” Capital accumulation in peripheral commodity production, according to Merivale, was necessary for metropolitan economic expansion, and access to labor, if necessary by coercion, was a precondition for turning abundant lands into productive suppliers of raw materials.

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/civil-war-cotton-capitalism-114776

    That cotton came almost exclusively from the slave plantations of the Americas—first from the West Indies and Brazil, then from the United States. When American cotton growers began to enter global markets in the 1790s after the revolution on Saint Domingue—once the world’s most important cotton-growing island—they quickly came to play an important, in fact dominant, role. Already in 1800, 25 percent of cotton landed in Liverpool (the world’s most important cotton port) originated from the American South. Twenty years later that number had increased to 59 percent, and in 1850 a full 72 percent of cotton imported to Britain was grown in the United States. U.S. cotton also accounted for 90 percent of total imports into France, 60 percent of those into the German lands and 92 percent of those shipped to Russia. American cotton captured world markets in a way that few raw material producers had before—or have since…

    When war broke out in April of 1861, this global economic relationship collapsed. At first, the Confederacy hoped to force recognition from European powers by restricting the export of cotton. Once the South understood that this policy was bound to fail because European recognition of the Confederacy was not forthcoming, the Union blockaded southern trade for nearly four years. The “cotton famine,” as it came to be known, was the equivalent of Middle Eastern oil being removed from global markets in the 1970s. It was industrial capitalism’s first global raw materials crisis.

    The effects were dramatic: In Europe, hundreds of thousands of workers lost employment, and social misery and social unrest spread through the textile cities of the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands and Russia. In Alsace, posters went up proclaiming: Du pain ou la mort. Bread or death. Since very little cotton had entered world markets from non-enslaved producers in the first 80 years after the Industrial Revolution, many observers were all but certain that the crisis of slavery, and with it of war capitalism, would lead to a fundamental and long-lasting crisis of industrial capitalism as well. Indeed, when Union Gen. John C. Frémont emancipated the first slaves in Missouri in the fall of 1861, the British journal The Economist worried that such a “fearful measure” might spread to other slaveholding states, “inflict[ing] utter ruin and universal desolation on those fertile territories” and also on the merchants of Boston and New York, “whose prosperity … has always been derived” to a large extent from slave labor.

  45. Talha says:
    @Twinkie

    It’s been like this for a few decades now, just accelerating as of recent.

    Peace.

  46. Corvinus says:
    @A123

    “Trump’s Inevitable 2nd Term…”

    It’s possible, but not inevitable.

    “There is 0% chance that a mental invalid & paedophile like Biden will win a fair election.”

    It’s other than surprising that you and others are engaging in pre-emptive maneuvering. IF Trump loses, the excuse will be “massive, pervasive voter fraud”. Never you mind that you provide specific evidence proving that assertion. Rather, making and repeating that statement is all that is required.

    • Replies: @A123
  47. @brabantian

    It’s not reasonable to expect justice from US courts.

  48. Dumbo says:

    There will be no “conservative backlash”. Quite the opposite. The younger generations are fucked, and they know it. Many of them will never have good jobs, own homes or maybe even pay their college debt for a useless degree. So it’s correct that you’d expect a “backlash”, and it’s happening. But here’s the thing: their backlash is not conservative, but exactly the opposite: is is a revenge against the older generations, accusing them of being “racist”, “sexist” and “transphobic”.

    It is ironic because Millennials see through Boomers and their “hippie” rhetoric, so they attack them with the same guns, accusing them of not being “progressive” enough. I guess nothing enrages more a boomer than being accused of being “racist” or “sexist”.

    So you can expect more of this to continue, until things get very bad. Perhaps the next generation after the economic collapse will turn reactionary. But even that is not certain, and with a country (a West) increasingly non-white, reactionaries might not even have the numbers anymore…

    Let us pray.

    • Agree: Peter Akuleyev
    • Replies: @dfordoom
  49. @Achmed E. Newman

    The question for me and the 10-20 million or so (max!) almost-all-white men in this country that really know what needs to be done, is this: Is the country worth saving?

    This is a good question. From the point of view of the white men you mention the answer is obviously NO! There will be no counter revolution. There will be an exodus. White people are being literally driven from the cities. Secession will be the way forward for the Un-Woke.

    Expatriation is not the only means of removing oneself from Woke jurisdiction. Cut and run? Yes exactly. Just like George Washington. Just like (Democrat) Jeff Davis.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  50. A123 says:
    @Corvinus

    Recent history shows ~20% fraud in the recent NJ vote-by-mail election.(1)

    In the City Council election, 16,747 vote-by-mail ballots were received, but only 13,557 votes were counted. More than 3,190 votes, 19% of the total ballots cast, were disqualified by the board of elections. Due to the pandemic, Paterson’s election was done through vote-by-mail. Community organizations, such as the city’s NAACP chapter, are calling for the entire election to be invalidated.

    Mail-in ballots have long been acknowledged by voting experts to be more susceptible to fraud and irregularities than in-person voting. This has raised concerns from President Trump and other Republicans about the integrity of national elections in November, which are expected to include a dramatic increase in mail-in ballots. If Paterson is any guide, it ought to concern Democrats as well.

    Over 800 ballots in Paterson were invalidated for appearing in mailboxes improperly bundled together – including a one mailbox where hundreds of ballots were in a single packet. The bundles were turned over to law enforcement to investigate potential criminal activity related to the collection of the ballots.

    Now that I have shown evidence that vote-by-mail is highly prone to fraud. The ball is in your court.

    You are required to present evidence that vote-by-mail is fraud proof.

    PEACE 😇
    _______

    (1) https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/06/26/1_in_5_ballots_rejected_as_fraud_is_charged_in_nj_mail-in_election_143551.html

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Corvinus
  51. 216 says:
    @dfordoom

    You don’t care about tax increases when you are burdened with student debt, and can’t buy a house.

  52. 216 says:
    @Twinkie

    You know this how?

    He agrees with cultural liberalism, but doesn’t want to argue in favor of it here. His goals are getting us to accept economic leftism.

    You can only tell people to stop believing their own lying eyes for so long, especially if living standards start declining. Even if there is no “massive backlash,” there will be cultural insurgents who refuse to go along who will command considerable sympathy.

    Absent a much harder economic collapse, I don’t see a Yugoslavia or a Lebanon developing.

    But I do see something akin to “The Troubles” of Northern Ireland occurring. On an ideological basis, Antifa is more similar to the Provisional IRA; but on a functional basis they do the same thing the UVF did: what the state couldn’t do itself.

    • Agree: Twinkie
    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @DanFromCT
  53. 216 says:
    @nebulafox

    VF delivered its best result since 1994, in the elections last year.

    Part of that appears to have been from recruiting a high profile candidate from the Coloured minority; but they improved their take in all the provinces except KZN where whites are Anglo.

    And this is in a country proportionally less white than it was in 1994.

    In years past, the ANC won the vote of Indians and Coloureds, they don’t anymore.

    As 4% of the population, Afrikaner insurgency would go about as well as a Jewish/Mormon insurgency would in the United States.

    Imagine an analogue where sporadic Anti-Semitic violence existed in the US in parallel to the violence against Afrikaners, along with a government intent on expropriating Jewish wealth and dissolving Mormon identity.

    The large number of Jews would pack up and move to Israel, as did most Jews in Argentina during the 90s. I don’t know what Mormons would do, but unlike Afrikaners they are concentrated in one place, albeit a landlocked place.

    It’s not an accident that any black violence against Jews in South Africa is swiftly condemned by the government, and then blamed on whites by the press.

  54. anon[206] • Disclaimer says:
    @dfordoom

    I don’t think that the majority of the people necessarily accept all these pathologies because they understand them and their consequences in their totality. Most people don’t think, they have the attention spans of squirrels and the minds of gnats. If you want to see this in action, go to a sports game, or listen to the conversations between fans. This is nothing new and has always been the case even in Roman times. The lack of intelligence and critical thinking of the masses has always been there and has been taken advantage of by politicians and leaders various sorts. Revolutions are led by the minority and when the mob sees which side seems to be winning, they will automatically take that side. If the “conservative” or traditional side ever coalesce into an organized force and start to make inroads, the masses will then see them as a “winning team” and will want start to support them regardless of what their belief system is. It’s about supporting the winners and not the losers. Today, the traditionalists are seen by the mob as the “losers” and the BLM crowd as being the winners. This wasn’t the case in the past in societies such as Weimar Germany. The traditionalist NSWP in Germany were perceived to be the winners in 1933 and got them elected as the government. The communists and other leftists were seen as the losers.

  55. Svevlad says:

    Oh, they will rebel if there is an external factor to support them…

    Every single backlash or revolt always had an external supporter. This stuff just means that really noone cares, or it’s even in their interest to keep this shit going

  56. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I don’t mean the Constitutional Republic here. I don’t mean the land (which is the most beautiful and well-taken-care-of in one country in the world). I mean the rest of the people. Go into Wal-Mart, the fast-food joint, attend the sportsball event, or talk to some dude in the mask get-up at the TSA line, “it’s a shame, but this is what we need to do to save our freedoms!” Then there are the young people who know NOTHING about our history and what a Constitutional Republic is supposed to be about

    This is the problem. If you wanted to construct a stable civilised functional society then there are a lot of white people who are going to make an unholy mess of such a society. There are an awful lot of white people who are dangerously anti-civilisational, and they’re found across the socio-economic spectrum. Angry blue-haired lesbian activists, insane environmentalists, bearded men in frocks who want to share a locker room with your daughter, loser druggies (including hop-heads drugged to the eyeballs on “medical” marijuana), vicious corrupt upper class and upper middle class whites (who are the people funding antifa and BLM), most journalists and practically all white academics.

    If you wanted to construct a stable civilised functional society then there are a lot of people across the political spectrum who would destroy such a society. There are lots of people on the “far left” who would obviously cause problems but there are plenty on the far right who would be just as bad (Hitler fanboys, crazed conspiracy theorists). And the Conservative Inc types might be the most dangerous of all. And of course the neocons. There are civilisation-wreckers among the Democrats but lots of civilisation-wreckers among Republicans as well.

    Young people are a huge worry. They’ve been so thoroughly indoctrinated that many may be beyond saving.

    And then there are the health Nazis and the vegans.

    It’s not just an American problem. Britain has similar problems, as does Australia.

    I don’t at all agree with DforDoom on his views on Socialism (seeing that is has been a major factor in putting us in this situation to begin with), and his views apparently come from Australia. Even so, we’ve kept it very civil, I appreciate his thoughts, and I even agree about 50% of the time, such as on this Kung Flu, and now BLM/antifa hysteria.

    I always enjoy our discussions. I’m not as much of a hardcore socialist as you might think. And while I’m not ready to embrace economic libertarianism I have become increasingly sympathetic to social libertarianism.

    • Replies: @216
  57. 216 says:

    Get Woke, Get Money

    NASCAR, almost alone among institutions, is uniquely vulnerable to the Right.

    Attendance and ratings should be crashing, but our people don’t have the spine.

  58. If you’re a victim of a Woke witch hunt …

    I am.

    … and you’re not suing everyone who had a hand in it, you’re not doing things right.

    But I cannot sue without harming two old friends. This is frustrating because, if my old friends had not privately told me exactly what the chief did to me and how he did it, I would never have found out. The friends are innocent. How can I repay their faith by damaging their careers, drawing them into the line of institutional SJW fire, and forcing them to hire lawyers to defend their interests, during my suit, in court?

    My friends who had trusted me would take significant collateral damage. One of the two might lose his own job. Then what? He too has a family to support.

    Doubly frustrating is that, if the chief who stabbed me in the back stood in my place, he would sue instantly. There is no justice.

    (No one likes a victim, incidentally. In view of purges now occurring across the United States, my case happens to be illustrative. I mention the case for this reason. If interested readers did me the small service of withholding expressions of sympathy—if any—this would spare me embarrassment. If readers doubt my tale, that’s just as well: I tell the tale pseudonymously and, therefore, can present no proof. However, if any reader happens to have practical advice to offer—well, I have no idea of what to do. I would gladly read any pertinent thought. I am so angry that the walls burst into flame whenever I walk into the room.)

  59. 216 says:
    @dfordoom

    And while I’m not ready to embrace economic libertarianism I have become increasingly sympathetic to social libertarianism.

    My movement away from lolbertarianism on social matter presaged my movement away from neoliberalism towards a more dirigiste position.

    Regulations on capital cannot be socially enforced without social conservatism. This is why almost all Communist regimes have backed away from Marx and Lenin’s thoughts about abolishing family, Cuba has trended towards Woke and I predict that could backfire.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  60. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Dumbo

    There will be no “conservative backlash”. Quite the opposite. The younger generations are fucked, and they know it. Many of them will never have good jobs, own homes or maybe even pay their college debt for a useless degree. So it’s correct that you’d expect a “backlash”, and it’s happening. But here’s the thing: their backlash is not conservative, but exactly the opposite: is is a revenge against the older generations, accusing them of being “racist”, “sexist” and “transphobic”.

    I think you’re spot on.

    Young people are rebelling, but they’re rebelling by moving towards ever more extreme versions of social radicalism. Young people are engaged in a Cultural Revolution but it’s an anti-conservative Cultural Revolution. They are becoming more extreme when it comes to environmentalist madness, more extreme when it comes to supporting the LGBT agenda, more extreme on supporting the more lunatic excesses of feminism, more extreme in their anti-racist views.

    They’re angry but they don’t want to revive or save western civilisation, they want to smash it. And they don’t give a damn about free speech or any of the causes they associate with the Evil Boomers.

    As I’ve said many times now, this is a Children’s Revolution. They may have valid reasons for being angry but they’re responding like angry toddlers throwing a gigantic temper tantrum.

    Anyone who thinks that the younger generations are going to join a backlash against SJW and Woke madness is living in a dream world. In fact the younger generations will lead a backlash against older SJWs and Wokeists for not being sufficiently radical.

    • Agree: Peter Akuleyev
    • Replies: @Dumbo
  61. dfordoom says: • Website
    @WorkingClass

    Expatriation is not the only means of removing oneself from Woke jurisdiction. Cut and run? Yes exactly. Just like George Washington. Just like (Democrat) Jeff Davis.

    It worked so well for Jefferson Davis. By the way how is the Confederacy going these days?

    As for the American Revolution, it only succeeded because it got a lot of outside support. It was not a war between Britain and the rebellious colonists. It was the rebellious colonists plus the French plus the Spanish plus the Dutch all allied against the British. Without the support of the French, Spanish and Dutch the American Revolution would have been crushed.

  62. Patricus says:
    @Corvinus

    PBS, Politico, The Atlantic. Objective sources?

    In 1870 the US produced more cotton than in 1860. There were no slaves. So who produced the cotton? Answer: slave produced cotton was a minority of the total crop before the war. Most was produced, as a diversified cash crop, on family farms of 50 acres plus or minus and without slaves. Cotton was a big agricultural product in some regions but only a small fraction of the American economy. Census data in the 19th century was comprehensive. All working lands exceeding three acres were recorded. The multi-thousand acre plantations existed but were scarce.

    Cotton did not make America and the war was fought for various reasons, slavery was one of the least important. Almost no one cared about the plight of the slaves.

    • Agree: V. K. Ovelund, Gordo
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    , @Peter Akuleyev
  63. anonymous[314] • Disclaimer says:
    @A123

    Perhaps YOU have forgotten about a little thing called the Russian Collusion Investigation?

    The investigation is wrapping up as I type. When its findings come out, prepare for a Biden presidency.

    Do not say Max Boot and I didn’t warn you 😉

    — Covidus

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
  64. @dfordoom

    And I think people are much more OK with political correctness and Wokeness than right-wingers think.

    Yes, I too have noticed this. I do not like it, nor do I understand it very well, but it does observably seem to be the case.

    This is one reason some of my fellow right-wingers promote accelerationism, the doctrine that worse is better. Unfortunately, though that doctrine merits consideration, I have never quite been able to persuade myself that worse is not just worse.

    Which leads me pretty much to your position.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  65. dfordoom says: • Website
    @216

    You know this how?

    He agrees with cultural liberalism, but doesn’t want to argue in favor of it here. His goals are getting us to accept economic leftism.

    I’m not arguing for cultural liberalism, merely pointing out the unpleasant truth that because conservatives lost the Culture War cultural liberalism is now the dominant cultural ideology and, unfortunately, it enjoys widespread public support. Even more unfortunately, it enjoys overwhelming support among the young.

    It’s one of those unpleasant truths that people on the far right deal with by pretending it doesn’t exist.

    Recognising that something unpleasant happens to exist is not the same as approving of it.

    • Agree: V. K. Ovelund
    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
  66. Corvinus says:
    @Patricus

    “PBS, Politico, The Atlantic. Objective sources?”

    Contest the content of the source, not the source itself. What specifically from the links do you object to?

    “In 1870 the US produced more cotton than in 1860. There were no slaves. So who produced the cotton? **Answer: slave produced cotton was a minority of the total crop before the war.”

    **Sources?

    By 1870, sharecroppers, small farmers, and former plantation owners who hired workers had produced more cotton than they had in 1860, and by 1880, they exported more cotton than they had in 1860.

    “Most was produced, as a diversified cash crop, on family farms of 50 acres plus or minus and without slaves. Cotton was a big agricultural product in some regions but only a small fraction of the American economy. Census data in the 19th century was comprehensive.”

    Sources?

    “Cotton did not make America…”

    The sources I provide disprove your assertion.

    “Almost no one cared about the plight of the slaves.”

    Northern (and southern) abolitionists are not “no one”.

    • Replies: @Not Only Wrathful
  67. Corvinus says:
    @A123

    https://www.npr.org/2020/07/01/885074932/n-j-election-fraud-case-draws-a-trump-tweet-but-suggests-safeguards-are-working

    The Passaic County Board of Elections rejected 3,190 ballots, about 19% of the mail-in ballots submitted, for the May 12 election in Paterson, but it is unclear how many were connected to the fraud allegations. In fact, there are many more common reasons for a ballot to be thrown out, such as a signature that doesn’t match election records or if the ballot was received after the deadline.

    It was also the first election in New Jersey conducted entirely vote-by-mail, and officials have warned of hiccups in matching signatures, processing paper ballots and receiving the mail on time.

    Although critics including Trump have claimed that a surge in mail-in voting will leave the election system prone to fraud, voting rights advocates in New Jersey say some of the same security features that exist for in-person voting also feature in vote-by-mail. “There is a huge myth about voter fraud in this country,” said Jesse Burns, executive director of the League of Women Voters of New Jersey.

    When voters cast a ballot in person in New Jersey, they are required to sign a poll book to match their signature to election records. The same is true of mail-in ballots, and election officials check the ballot to make sure the signatures match.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/23/politics/trump-war-mail-in-voting-lacks-republican-allies/index.html

    After Trump tweeted Monday morning that mail-in ballots would make 2020 the “most RIGGED election in our nation’s history,” CNN spoke with numerous GOP senators, including members of the GOP leadership team. None of them said they agreed with the President’s views on mail-in voting, and a number of them said they supported expansions as a way to deal with the coronavirus.

    “I think it’s fine,” Sen. Deb Fischer of Nebraska, a member of the Senate GOP leadership team, said of the expansion of mail-in voting in her state. “It’s worked well in Nebraska. We had tremendous turnout in the primary in May. No issues that I’ve heard from our secretary of state. It’s worked well.”

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/14/politics/vote-by-mail-trump-california/index.html

    As President Donald Trump held forth in the Cabinet Room on Wednesday railing against voting by mail, the Republican candidate in a hotly contested special election in California was being declared the winner after voting was conducted almost entirely by mail.Republican businessman Mike Garcia’s victory over Democratic State Assemblywoman Christy Smith in California’s 25th Congressional District race is not only a major victory for Republicans, but it also deals a blow to Trump’s contention that mail-in-only elections benefit Democrats and are ripe with fraud.

    • Replies: @A123
  68. @Twinkie

    Don’t confuse the politeness and go-alongness of ordinary people with satisfaction and approval.

    No, I fear that @dfordoom is more right about this than you and I could wish. He overstates but is essentially correct in my experience.

    How do you think Trump was elected?

    Partly because Trump is and always has been more Progressive than you and I might wish. Partly because of Trump’s humor and masterly bearing. Partly because, while mercilessly denigrating specific political opponents, Trump carefully and consistently avoids denigrating whole classes of ordinary citizens. (The media insist that Trump does denigrate whole classes of ordinary citizens, but the media are projecting and lying.)

    A big reason is that Trump, who is content to be moderately Progressive (compared to the average citizen), dares to ridicule the most ridiculous manifestations of Political Correctness.

    Another big reason is that Trump is hated by elites who hate us.

    There may be further reasons, but these come to mind. Did you have further reasons you wish to add?

    • Replies: @Not Only Wrathful
  69. @V. K. Ovelund

    I am so sorry. I did not know this. My advice to you in a previous thread must have seemed remarkably and uniquely unhelpful. If you would like to talk to me privately, ask AE to send you my email. I don’t object.

  70. @dfordoom

    … it enjoys overwhelming support among the young.

    Without disputing your larger point, may I quibble with the adjective? I mean, you can use whatever word you like, but overwhelming is probably not the word I would use for 70 percent—which I believe is about what the level is. Moreover, as you yourself have observed, there is growing intensity among the 30 percent. (Whether such intensity will produce desired results can be doubted but should not be ignored. The 30 percent include characters far more intense than among the corresponding cohort of my own generation.)

    Recall that I have recently spent ten years teaching courses to thousands of undergraduates; so, though the observations are anecdotal and are not guaranteed to be accurate, I may have some rough basis to give them.

  71. dfordoom says: • Website
    @216

    And while I’m not ready to embrace economic libertarianism I have become increasingly sympathetic to social libertarianism.

    My movement away from lolbertarianism on social matter presaged my movement away from neoliberalism towards a more dirigiste position.

    I admit that my position on the issue of social conservatism seems contradictory and it is an issue on which I admit to being torn two ways.

    I’m horrified by the excesses of the LGBTqwerty crowd, by the excesses of feminism, by the decay of marriage as an institution and by the degeneracy of modern culture.

    On the other hand I really dislike the idea of socially conservative values (or any values) being imposed by force. By force I don’t just mean laws but also the kinds of social pressures that include people losing their jobs etc. I don’t like the idea of morality imposed by government, or by religious organisations. I’m fine with religions imposing their moral rules on their own members but I’m not fine with them imposing moral values on those who don’t share their religious beliefs.

    I think that trying to impose social conservatism by force would be counter-productive and it would be to my way of thinking an unacceptable intrusion into other people’s lives.

    Is it possible to have social conservatism without compulsion? I honestly don’t know but if it has to be compelled I don’t think it’s worth it.

    I also don’t think it matters if not everyone conforms on social and sexual matters. If a small minority of people want to live a non-conformist sexual lifestyle (and I’m not talking about homosexuality but anything from promiscuity to wife-swapping to whatever the hell else people want to do) it doesn’t bother me. As long as it’s a small minority. If 2% of the population rejects social conservatism in favour of libertinism it’s no real problem. It becomes a problem when it’s 30% or 40% or maybe even 60% of the population doing it.

    Regulations on capital cannot be socially enforced without social conservatism.

    An interesting claim. There might be something in it.

    • Replies: @Jatt Arya
  72. A123 says:
    @Corvinus

    None of which proves your assertion that Vote-By-Mail is 100% secure and free of fraud.

    Adding to blocked commenter list for obvious TROLLing and deception.

    Go post over at the The New York Dhimmi Times of Islam. Maybe they will take you seriously over there.

    We not laughing with you, we are laughing at you…

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  73. Vinnie O says:

    As with the McCormick Reaper for wheat, there were various mechanical, horse-pulled cotton-picking inventions knocking around in the 19th century. But they couldn’t make any sales as long as unskilled farm labor was widely available at ridiculously low pay. And of course prior to the Civil War that unskilled labor was slaves. After the war, the unskilled labor was nominally “sharecroppers”.

    I think it was some time in the 1920s that Congress finally passed a bill that included “agricultural workers” under the Minimum Wage. In an instant, mechanical cotton-pickers were CHEAPER (net per year) than unskilled labor, and thousands of unskilled farm workers were “excess to needs”.

    With no marketable skills, these farm workers moved north because Northern welfare checks were bigger. And Democratic politicians discovered that they could use those welfare checks to buy continued re-election.

  74. Corvinus says:
    @A123

    “None of which proves your assertion that Vote-By-Mail is 100% secure and free of fraud.”

    That is a strawman on your part. I never directly nor indirectly made that claim.

    “Adding to blocked commenter list for obvious TROLLing and deception.”

    That’s rich considering you attributed to me a statement that I never made. I have to admit, projection is your strong suit.

  75. Jatt Arya says:
    @dfordoom

    Liberalism is enforced by force, and there is no society without power.

    Land must be captured by the sword before it can be cultivated – Ragnar Redbeard

    Your idea is however correct almost everyone belonging to a religious organisation which enforces its own morals seems to be the best method

    However, that would require an ability to recognize the existence of different religions rather just different strains of liberalism.

    Not something possible atm, for now you’re on the side of people who want to burn society||

    You can only end the history of people who believe they’ve arrived at the end of history||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾ।।ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ।।

  76. SafeNow says:

    During the Cultural Revolution, the concept that emerged was that a single artifact equated to “proof of crime” aka “ironclad evidence.” (Zuizheng). The Red Guard would come to your house and neighborhood, find the ‘“evidence,” and off you go. Couple this with the fact that technology has improved, and your digital footprint is already on a list somewhere. If history repeats, there can exist no possible backlash, because you will be so easily Zuizhenged. The only question for the Uruguay-contemplating commenters is whether they really need to make such a drastic change. Possibly the U.S. Red Guard will not bother you way up in Ennis, Montana. I think they will not, assuming you keep your head down.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  77. MattinLA says:
    @V. K. Ovelund

    VK, are you in California? I am a California lawyer. Let me know and maybe I can help.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
  78. “chasing cheap human labor instead of investing in productivity innovations”
    How come after decades of research and billions of $, robotics hasn’t given us
    something that can pick an apple off a tree, economically.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  79. @anonymous

    No one really cares in the real world. The evidence of Trump’s collusion and his fondness for Putin were obvious well before the election. It’s already “priced in” as something you don’t care about, or perhaps see as a positive quality (if you like Putin). Just as the far right remain oblivious to how deeply popular LBGTQ issues actually are, the centrists are clueless to how popular “America First” is as an ideology. Trump’s destruction of NATO and the Western Alliance is one accomplishment likely to survive a Biden administration, and there certainly has been no groundswell of outrage at the way Trump treats Germany or the UK or when he “abandoned” the Kurds.

  80. Dumbo says:
    @dfordoom

    I cannot talk about future generations, but this conflict is something I am seeing right now. Recently I saw a “boomer” leftist filmmaker that was being trashed by younger generations for not being considered sufficiently “woke” or “anti-racist” enough. And you see this again and again, J. K. Rowling is the same thing, Harry Potter is all about multiculturalism and race-mixing propaganda (“mudbloods”, etc) , but now she’s not “woke” enough because she thinks transexuals are not real women or something. These new generations are the worst. Frankly, I find them unbearable. And note that I in general dislike boomers. But I don’t see much hope in the current young. Maybe their children, when they “backlash” against them.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  81. @Patricus

    Slavery was the primary reason for the war, really the only reason, as dependency on slaves was the main cultural difference between “North” and “South”. Southerners only deny this because they are afraid of being called “racist” but since the evidence is so overwhelming, denying that the war was primarily about slavery only makes you look weak and defensive.

    • Agree: iffen, nebulafox
    • Replies: @Dumbo
    , @Yahya K.
    , @nebulafox
  82. dfordoom says: • Website
    @V. K. Ovelund

    This is one reason some of my fellow right-wingers promote accelerationism, the doctrine that worse is better. Unfortunately, though that doctrine merits consideration, I have never quite been able to persuade myself that worse is not just worse.

    I’m inclined to think that accelerationism is another variant of right-wing magical thinking. It’s an attempt to bring about a magical solution. If things get really bad then the normies will finally act. The Silent Majority of decent right-thinking people will finally wake up. The problem is that that Silent Majority no longer exists.

    • Replies: @Dumbo
  83. Dumbo says:
    @dfordoom

    “If things get really bad then the normies will finally act.”

    Normies never act, they just follow. Or they wouldn’t be “normies”.

    The Silent Majority of decent right-thinking people will finally wake up. The problem is that that Silent Majority no longer exists.

    I would say, to be fair, that there’s a Silent Minority. There’s a lot of people who are against what is happening, but keep quiet for fear of losing their jobs, friendships, or worse. But they are no longer the majority, and their numbers keep dwindling.

    The main problem is that, whenever non-whites become majority, then it’s game over for whites, because from then on there’ll always be “racism”. The other races will never be happy playing second fiddle to whites. Even when they are the majority, they will still blame whites for the crescent dysfunction. Just look at South Africa. The only solution for the US would be secession of the white population. For Europe, removal of the immigrants. Neither is likely happen in the near future, which means, we will see the problems increase and increase, until things will explode. Then in a war, anything might be possible, but does it really need to get to that point? And is it worth it?

  84. Dumbo says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    The civil war was another demonstration of why African slavery was the greatest mistake that the colonizers ever made in the Americas. “Let’s bring in millions of Africans, what can go wrong?”

    But white people just can’t “pick their own cotton”, they like to have slaves and servants. The current immigration is also because white people like to have their cheap Mexican maids and low-wage workers.

    • Agree: Lockean Proviso
    • Replies: @Talha
  85. @Corvinus

    As he said:

    In 1870 the US produced more cotton than in 1860. There were no slaves.

    Your point is refuted.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  86. @V. K. Ovelund

    Trump is a big city liberal who doesn’t hate any mass group of people. That’s why I like him, and why I tried to allow people, who hated him, to see it.

    To an obsessive moral narcissist, everyone who doesn’t absolutely agree with them is completely awful.

    I would therefore be a Nazi, or, at best, an inveterate contrarian, simply for saying that Trump wasn’t going to burn the gays, genocide the Mexicans and enslave the blacks.

    [MORE]

    Though, also, those who are hated by their most hated can appear awesome.

    • Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
  87. @Corvinus

    Slave produced cotton was indeed king in antebellum America, and it was that economic rule that led to the south’s arrogance and stupidity of secession. The 3/5ths compromise led southern plantation oligarchs to believe that the political dominance of the USA they enjoyed thanks to partial counting of slaves would continue forever, helped by breeding slaves (posterity curses the oligarchical jerks) with an average of over nine children per female. The continued availability of new land in the west also held promise for continued southern hegemony- or so they thought.

    MEANWHILE, the north was industrializing, improving infrastructure, and attracting productive, intelligent immigrants from Europe, a trend that the south thought their cotton bubble wealth could overcome. They were, of course, very wrong. Slavery profits blinded the south to the need to diversify and innovate. It was a commodity boom, but they didn’t feel the pressure to compete for the long run.

    Your cites failed to mention the support that Lancashire mill workers gave for the Union due to their abolitionist sentiment- the white working class doesn’t get any good press now, even in historical examples. British bankers, industrialists, and elites supported the Confederacy, but the British working class supported the Union.

    • Replies: @mderpelding
  88. @MattinLA

    VK, are you in California?

    Thank you. No, I am not.

  89. Dumbo says:

    The main problem right now is anti-white whites who accuse other whites of racism. What do they expect, that they’ll be eaten last?

    Another curious thing is that those who most complain about “racism”, are the same ones that believe that a multicultural and multiracial utopia where “everyone can get along” is possible and just around the corner…

    (I’m talking here about the true believers, not the cynics who are just exploiting this for other reasons).

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  90. “The main problem right now is anti-white whites who accuse other whites of racism. What do they expect, that they’ll be eaten last?”

    Jeff Bezos’ newspaper reacted to Trump’s very good Mount Rushmore speech with unhinged distortion and attack. Jeff Bezos’ paper encourages the revolution and says nothing to slow it.

    Meanwhile, Bezos’ idyllic city of Seattle is being trashed. Separately, protesters recently set up a mock guillotine outside of his house in DC.

    He is the richest person in the world. Does he think he or his family isn’t in danger? They have already been targeted as the DC demonstration shows. He has vast numbers of low-paid black employees whose income is millions of times less than his own. How is this a stable situation and yet he finances pure nitroglycerin on the fire.

    The left is on the side of shuttering schools endlessly, trashing cities, raising crime, crushing the economy…

    They think Trump is the enemy but he is only a messenger warning of problems that are real. Shooting the messenger and the problems remain.

    Trump stands in front of a brick wall of reality. Run through Trump and you just crash into that brick wall of reality. The right has already won in a sense. The left has embraced every destruction and seems to have zero chance of succeeding with the America they want to inherit.

    • Replies: @Znzn
  91. Znzn says:
    @DanHessinMD

    You know that there is such a thing as mercenaries and PMCs right? Want to bet that Bezos can call on an entire light armored brigade and a regiment of airborne private troops within the hour if he finds the need to? Plus he probably he has armed security in the dozens around his mansion and a personal helicopter and private plane to a private island at this moment. He surely has a large supply of anti tank missiles and anti aircraft missiles in the nuclear proof bunker of his mansion.

    • Replies: @DanHessinMD
    , @botazefa
  92. onebornfree says: • Website

    “Slavery wasn’t ended; it was merely re-engineered and is constantly being tweaked, to wit the 16th Amendment, Microsoft Teams, etc.”

    Yes, exactly. Stefan Molyneux did a good video on this a few years back, called “The Story of Your Enslavement”:


    [This Bitchute video originally was on Youtube, but Molyneux’s YT account was deleted recently so I found this Bitchute link to it , but did not check to see if it worked at Bitchute. Hope it works OK].

    “None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

    Regards, onebornfree

  93. @dfordoom

    Thank you. I did not know that the Confederacy lost the war. Nor that the Colonists had help.

  94. @Znzn

    So he is supposed to simply shoot protesters? Or rather use missiles on them as you say?

    How will that go?

    And is he and his family supposed to basically be in hiding all the time?

    Wouldn’t it be easier to for him to stop, you know, pushing left-wing extremism through his media outlet?

    The irony is so unbelievable. I deleted a lot of what I had to say about Amazon because I derive great benefit from their services, and I see no benefit in wreaking them. I am not a leftist seeking to destroy.

    But does he not see the extreme irony and hypocrisy? How can that be stable? The median income at Microsoft is $167,000 a year. At Amazon, it is $27,000 a year.

    Is there any example in history where elites pushed cultural revolution like this? Sailer is wondering what Bezos could possibly be thinking.

    • Replies: @Dumbo
  95. botazefa says:
    @Znzn

    He surely has a large supply of anti tank missiles and anti aircraft missiles in the nuclear proof bunker of his mansion.

    You’re thinking of Chinese oligarchs in China.

    Bezos is way too woke to suspect he’ll come under physical attack by riotous mobs. He’s way too liberal to have acquired illegal military armaments. He thinks 911 will save him.

    Bezos believes the crap he is shoveling, just like the rest of the progressive elites. And the protesters/rioters.

    They really believe white people are the a clear and present danger.

  96. Dumbo says:
    @DanHessinMD

    Is there any example in history where elites pushed cultural revolution like this?

    France, China and Russia? All revolutions come from above.

    Sailer is wondering what Bezos could possibly be thinking.

    You gave the answer yourself above:

    The median income at Microsoft is $167,000 a year. At Amazon, it is $27,000 a year.

    But I think that they really are expecting to substitute all those cheap workers for robots, so maybe after that they will be less for massive immigration, and more for population reduction? I don’t know.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  97. Yahya K. says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Southerners only deny this because they are afraid of being called “racist”

    They deny it because it strikes at the ego. No-one likes to have their identity attacked.

  98. @dfordoom

    Are you deliberately dismissing or just forgetting the fact that the Red coats were aided by the Cayugas, the Mohawks, the Onondagas, and the Senecas?

  99. Corvinus says:
    @Not Only Wrathful

    “Your point is refuted.”

    Who do you think replaced the slaves? Freed blacks. So the labor came from the same group, just named differently.

    • Replies: @Not Only Wrathful
  100. @Corvinus

    Bravo Corvinus,

    Thanks for the scholarly debunking of the stupid narrative so eagerly followed on this site that the civil war was about everything else but slavery or more accurately slavery was not the main reason for the Civil war. It was overwhelmingly about slavery(Cotton Production) vs the moral abhorrence of that institution which led to second order political crises like states rights and secession.

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
  101. @Talha

    Warranty expired 150 years ago so return to supplier is no longer possible.

    • Agree: Talha
    • Replies: @Talha
  102. @Corvinus

    This shows that slavery did not build America in any way. You’re making the case against your own argument.

    • Replies: @A123
    , @Corvinus
    , @nebulafox
  103. A123 says:
    @Not Only Wrathful

    Arguing with Corvinius is a waste of time and effort. You should add it to your blocked commenters list and ignore it.

    PEACE 😇

  104. Corvinus says:
    @Not Only Wrathful

    “This shows that slavery did not build America in any way.”

    This shows that cotton production was built in large part by plantation agriculture buttressed by black slave labor (non-paid labor). American slavery became eradicated, i.e. illegal. Black slave labor was then replaced by black sharecroppers (“free” labor). Cotton production remained dependent on that workforce (blacks).

    Furthermore, what sources do you have to refute the information in the links I provided?

    “You’re making the case against your own argument.”

    Actually, I’m strengthening it.

    • Replies: @Not Only Wrathful
  105. @Corvinus

    You’ve established that not all black people have subsisted on EBT cards since America was founded. Shocking…I know that, most people are productive.

    But also irrelevant to the point that slavery was bad for economic development.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  106. Talha says:
    @Grahamsno(G64)

    And it was fairly stupid what they did with the product in the first place after purchase. Here is an excerpt from some of the breeding policies carried out:

    From the book titled “Enslaved Women and the Art of Resistance in Antebellum America”.

    Anybody mad at the situation right now should be hyper-upset with those guys for kicking things off in such a spectacular SNAFU fashion.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Grahamsno(G64)
    , @Talha
  107. @Talha

    Anybody mad at the situation right now should be hyper-upset with those guys for kicking things off in such a spectacular SNAFU fashion.

    Worse through generations of Eugenics they created a really humongous race without ever thinking that these creations might one day be free, I used to wonder how on earth did anyone enslave Shaquile O Neil’s ancestors now I know, the genome of the likes of Shaq were created in these plantations. Thanks for the information.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Twinkie
  108. Corvinus says:
    @Not Only Wrathful

    “You’ve established that not all black people have subsisted on EBT cards since America was founded.”

    You mean it has been established that those involved in slavery–from plantation owner to northern industrial mill operator to slave ship captain–all had a hand in securing gimmedats and free stuff.

    “But also irrelevant to the point that slavery was bad for economic development.”

    To the contrary…

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/hbsworkingknowledge/2017/05/03/the-clear-connection-between-slavery-and-american-capitalism/#7fbd22d67bd3

    • Replies: @Not Only Wrathful
  109. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Dumbo

    Is there any example in history where elites pushed cultural revolution like this?

    France, China and Russia? All revolutions come from above.

    Pretty much. Revolutions only succeed when at least a part of the elites support the revolution.

  110. iffen: “Some years ago I planted some of these [perennial truths] in my flower garden. It didn’t work out very well. I kept forgetting where I planted them and what they were. I just stick with annuals now.”

    Lyrics from a popular song:

    The truth is no longer concerned with the facts
    The truth is a constant stream of non-sequiturs
    The truth is love works in mysterious ways, I guess we’ll never know
    The truth is I don’t know whether to sink or swim
    The truth is a one-way system in an unfamiliar city
    The truth is I’m not sure how we got here
    The truth is I’m not sure we can ever leave
    The truth waits for no-one
    The truth is I’ve never met or been in contact with that person in my life
    The truth is I don’t remember
    The truth is not what it was
    The truth is ready when you are
    The truth is all things to all men
    The truth is all things to some men
    The truth is where you draw the line
    The truth is whatever you want it to be
    The truth is a rabbit in a hat
    The truth is a foreign language
    The truth is your browsing history
    The truth is neither here nor there
    I suspect the truth lies somewhere in the middle
    The truth is an unnamed source
    The truth is not available for comment at this time
    The truth is an infinite playlist
    The truth is not what you expected
    The truth has over one hundred million views
    The truth is unverified and unverifiable
    But it is the truth if I say it is
    The truth will not be televised
    The truth is we’re no longer sure it is my voice on those recordings
    The truth is a sinking ship
    The truth is a moot point
    The truth comes in different sizes
    The truth is a no-nonsense haircut
    The truth is around here somewhere, I remember having it, but not what I did with it
    The truth is in a Moscow hotel room
    The truth is hidden in a complex series of offshore companies
    The truth is encrypted
    The truth is your privacy is important to us
    The truth is all of the above
    The truth is…
    I am the truth
    You will never see me again
    And even if you did, you wouldn’t recognise me

    Delete as applicable

  111. @SafeNow

    Possibly the U.S. Red Guard will not bother you way up in Ennis, Montana.

    They will not bother Americans anywhere in which said Americans are united and armed up. The question is, even in Ennis, Montana, are there enough people who will join the Red Guards before rather than join with you?

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @DanFromCT
  112. Talha says:
    @Grahamsno(G64)

    Think about horse breeds – they were basically trying to breed draft horses not exactly Lippizzaners.

    “Lockean Proviso” earlier mentioned some of the motivations:
    “The 3/5ths compromise led southern plantation oligarchs to believe that the political dominance of the USA they enjoyed thanks to partial counting of slaves would continue forever, helped by breeding slaves (posterity curses the oligarchical jerks) with an average of over nine children per female.”

    The Ottomans used to put prized black eunuchs in extremely high positions (look up the institute of the Kizlir Agha) – in those particular positions, they looked for someone that was intelligent and could make sense of the imperial framework and manage its affairs.

    If that is your purpose for your purchase, you look for a certain kind of individual.

    On the other hand, if your purpose is accomplishing tasking and repetitive manual labor in a hot and muggy environment, you look for another kind of individual.

    through generations of Eugenics

    Like I said, those guys that made those policies own that SNAFU – big time. Not all whites and not all whites of every era (my wife’s family came from Sweden well after slavery was long gone). As LP said; “posterity curses the oligarchical jerks”.

    Thanks for the information.

    Most welcome.

    Peace.

  113. Dr. Doom says:

    The Left believes this is Russia 1917. It isn’t.

    This is the Weimar Republic 2.0 you have here.

    The voting is moot. Its a Fraud and a Cheat.

    Trump is just as much System as the Swamp.

    You do not need a majority for a revolution.

    100,000 men could overthrow Washington.

    The System no longer has the Legions to Rule.

    They are corrupt and pathetic. WE ARE LEGION.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  114. nebulafox says:
    @Not Only Wrathful

    I’m learned not to bother with Corvy and his mindless bien-pensant talking points (New York as capital of the South?!), but I will point out that (no duh) oligarch dominated rentier economies do tend to benefit the developed outside world. That’s not the point I’m making: that’s not the same thing as being beneficial to the country itself. Again: just look at the deep social dysfunction of Brazil. That has not a little to do with the fact that the country was a lot like what an independent Confederacy probably would have been until the 20th Century.

    Would the US have really been worse off and poorer if slavery ended around 1800 and the South hadn’t proceeded to drag the nation down? In the context of the Industrial Revolution, which America took advantage of as well as any other nation, I doubt that: steel and coal and railroads were the future. At a time when entrepreneurs were doing stuff like building railroads up North, men on the make in the South who otherwise might have been doing the same were still heading into agriculture, because that remained the route to upward mobility. Those railroads played a critical part in how the Civil War went. An agrarian slave dominated economy was simply not able to compete with modernity. You don’t need to use America as an example. Just look at serf-holding Russia’s failed attempts to keep pace with Western Europe.

    • Agree: Mark G.
    • Thanks: Not Only Wrathful
    • Replies: @anon
  115. nebulafox says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    “I never heard of any other cause of the quarrel than slavery.”-James Longstreet.

    Now that’s a name that deserves to be remembered more. Probably the most skilled corps commander of the entire war, and one who redeemed himself by leading black militias and police against KKK-esque terrorist organizations during Reconstruction. On behalf of his old friend and colleague, President Ulysses S. Grant.

  116. gman says:

    Off topic:

    I read this article and immediately thought of AE

    https://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investments-mid-2020-updates/

    >I sold all my U.S. Treasuries and moved the proceeds into gold and silver, with a bit more going into equities….
    >I’ve purchased hundreds of S&P 500 put options as “disaster insurance.”
    >And I’m applying for citizenship elsewhere. I plan to renounce my U.S. citizenship and move everything outside the country.

    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
  117. @Joe Stalin

    Mary Hopkin is Welsh. The tune is Russian, with English words (illegally) by Gene Raskin, whose other notable work is the theme to Gigantor. Probably only the words there, too.

    He is not to be confused with David Raskin, who composed the music to Laura. Johnny Mercer graced the theme with his unbeatable lyrical skill.

  118. The fact that slavery was being artificially propped up for the benefit of a minority of agrarian plutocrats was one of the big factors behind the Civil War in the first place…

    Should the Confederacy have succeeded-and it could have-it would have likely become a backwater rural dystopia…

    When I’ve made the same points in the last few weeks, I’ve been labeled a troll. But the button-pushers never explain just how wealth was produced by African “labor”.

    Be ready for a similar smackdown.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  119. anon[231] • Disclaimer says:
    @nebulafox

    Would the US have really been worse off and poorer if slavery ended around 1800 and the South hadn’t proceeded to drag the nation down?

    Who knows?

    Who cares?

    It’s dorm-room level “whut if Napoleon had uh atom bomb!” blather.

    Everyone has to have a hobby, but endless “whut IF” mental masturbation should be kept private, don’t you agree?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  120. @The Alarmist

    um….gonna need to hear about how Microsoft Teams relates to Slavery. go onnnn

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  121. Talha says:
    @Talha

    It should be mentioned that – though forced couplings of slaves did happen and “studs” were indeed used – the evidence from most sources I have come across (I’m not expert, but I have come across about four different sources) is that this was not the majority of cases by any means and most were bred as families. But even then, breeding was certainly a widely adopted policy for obvious economic reasons.

    • Replies: @iffen
  122. @Corvinus

    You got me, slavery, especially of black people, is an essential cheat to economic development, that’s why Norway is so poor and Congo is so rich.

    Furthermore, despite GDP in real terms being hundreds of times higher now than in 1870, slavery, which didn’t even exist then, is crucial for what the country has now.

    I get it. You feel powerful and important, and you are, but not in the way that you somehow built the US. Thinking so would be a totally crazy delusion. It isn’t great that newspaper articles feed this fantasy.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  123. @Lockean Proviso

    Lockean Proviso….

    In spite of the Revolutionary War, the South remained an English colony.

    • Replies: @Lockean Proviso
  124. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Achmed E. Newman

    They will not bother Americans anywhere in which said Americans are united and armed up.

    That’s the problem. Is there any possibility of any kind of unity in any western country today?

    Certainly in the Anglosphere nations those willing to offer any kind of resistance to the Cultural Revolution are a small minority and even that small minority is not united.

    Being armed up is just going to give the government the excuse to shoot you down and round up the survivors and send them to Guantanomo Bay.

    How much good have all those guns done American conservatives so far? The struggle over gun rights is another example of the Right fighting the wrong war on the wrong battlefield.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
  125. @Big Dick Bandit

    Teams will change one’s status to Away when one isn’t interacting with your PC for a period of time, leading one’s employer to wonder what one might be doing. It is gamed to make sure you have some activity logged at all times. I laugh because a lot of my activity is on my Bloomberg terminal, so I’m pretty much ‘Away’ all the time, but it’s more serious business for the junior staff. And Teams is just the tip of the Electronic Plantation.

  126. Twinkie says:
    @Grahamsno(G64)

    Worse through generations of Eugenics they created a really humongous race

    In the United States, the average height for black men above age 20 is 5’9” while that for white men is 5’10” – don’t fall for the selection bias in football and basketball.

    • Replies: @Grahamsno(G64)
  127. @Twinkie

    I stand corrected but damn we get a different impression watching sports.

  128. iffen says:
    @Talha

    is that this was not the majority of cases by any means and most were bred as families.

    No expert either, but many slave owners were not that concerned about marriages among their slaves. They were mostly interested in babies being born and who the father was was not a major concern. It’s pretty clear that the some slaves pushed harder for marriage and nuclear families than the slave owners. It is confounded by the fact that the women were dependent upon the slave owner and not a husband. Also, men being men, and the fact that there was no authority or institution that placed any sort of control on their sexual behavior there undoubtedly was a lot of extra-marital activity.

    • Replies: @Talha
  129. Corvinus says:
    @Not Only Wrathful

    “You got me, slavery, especially of black people, is an essential cheat to economic development, that’s why Norway is so poor and Congo is so rich.”

    I see you are resorting to what amounts as a digital temper tantrum. It’s a sad sight to behold.

    • Troll: Not Only Wrathful
  130. Corvinus says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    “But the button-pushers never explain just how wealth was produced by African “labor”.”

    Actually, Comment 44 and Comment 109 provide the explanations.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  131. Talha says:
    @iffen

    They were mostly interested in babies being born and who the father was was not a major concern. It’s pretty clear that the some slaves pushed harder for marriage and nuclear families than the slave owners.

    This is along the lines of what I read as well. The fact that most breeding was done via families was not due to motivations by slave owners, but the slaves themselves. There were strategies slaves had developed to be able to marry the people they wanted instead of what the owner preferred.

    Slave owners incentivized breeding as best they could so if slaves did it cooperatively, even better. There were even incentives to good breeder women that would barely have to do manual labor if they could produce babies instead. That also went along with prioritization for medical care.

    there undoubtedly was a lot of extra-marital activity.

    Yup. And it wouldn’t necessarily be discouraged either if it resulted in more babies. Slaves were also subject to being approached (consensual or not) from everyone from the master, the master’s sons, managers, visitors, etc. Though this was not as big as some have claimed it to be – it wasn’t like white on black rape was the majority of what was producing kids or anything. I wonder if part of that is due to how obvious the evidence would be if master slept with his young maid and his wife would know immediately that SOME white guy helped produce that green eyed baby.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
  132. Slavery is wrong in any case at all. Slavery ended not as a result of a sudden moral or ethical awakening, but because the cotton gin was invented. The difference between black slaves and white slaves in the south and in America in skin color, obviously easier to identify, and more difficult to escape the stigma of, which has been exploited by some demanding reparations paid to black people that never were slaves, by white people that never had slaves, which would be the eqivalent of black people enslaving white people. Many have stated that LBJ’s welfare system was a form of reparations, and I happen to agree that it was. Racism in that era was more prevalent than it is today. The fact that Barack Obama was elected as president, and there are many other black politicians, CEOs, news casters, etc. is proof that the level of racism in America is being grossly over-stated. Yes, there are racist people in America, and there are racist blacks as well. Poverty brought on by single parenthood, particularly of under-age females is more responsible for blacks poverty than racism is, and under-age white women that have had out of wedlock children and do not marry and their children are in similar socio-economic positions that single parent black women and their children  are in. 

  133. @anon

    Would the US have really been worse off and poorer if slavery ended around 1800 and the South hadn’t proceeded to drag the nation down?
    Who knows?
    Who cares?

    Those of us who oppose the inevitable push for “reparations” in Congress care a lot. If slavery is shown to have been a cost rather than a benefit to the country, their case not only collapses, it becomes ridiculous.

    • Replies: @anon
  134. @Corvinus

    I don’t recall your pushing the Troll button on me.

    I want defenders of the system to explain why they agree with the reparationists that the plantations made America rich. Are you one of those?

    Evidently you are. From comment #44:

    “Slavery was not some engine of economic growth: it was a deeply retarding force.”

    To the contrary…

    Cotton was a bubble propped up by Whitney’s gin. The whole mess would have collapsed once the world discovered the superior workforces available around the world. Most cotton today comes from Asia.

    The other plantation products were mostly vices. Drug trades, in effect. Those can be profitable, but it’s not pretty.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  135. anon[390] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Those of us who oppose the inevitable push for “reparations” in Congress care a lot. If slavery is shown to have been a cost rather than a benefit to the country, their case not only collapses, it becomes ridiculous.

    So?

    The case for BLM’s claim of a widespread police murder campaign vs. black men falls apart under the slightest scrutiny and becomes ridiculous. What happens next? In the real world, I mean, not the world of Boomer-autists in comboxes. Logic blows up BLM’s main claim, and so what?

    Who cares?

    Suggest that several people here find a new hobby. Or learn to write entertaining fiction, maybe try to compete with Harry Turtledove.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  136. @dfordoom

    “How much good have all those guns done American conservatives so far? The struggle over gun rights is another example of the Right fighting the wrong war on the wrong battlefield.”

    Love it when disarmed Aussies, Brits, New Zealanders lecture Americans about how useless being armed is!

    Like eunuchs telling us how manly they are.

    Americans are deeply split along demographic lines, but there aren’t many demographic characteristics that embody America’s cultural divide better than gun ownership.

    In every state but Vermont – perhaps the most liberal state in the country, but one where many, including Bernie Sanders, support gun rights – voters who reported living in a gun-owning household overwhelmingly backed Donald J. Trump.

    The opposite is true for voters who said they did not live in a home with a gun. In all but one state that could be measured, voters overwhelmingly preferred Hillary Clinton. (The exception was West Virginia; not enough data existed for Wyoming.)

    Over all, gun-owning households (roughly a third in America) backed Mr. Trump by 63 percent to 31 percent, while households without guns backed Mrs. Clinton, 65 percent to 30 percent, according to SurveyMonkey data.

    In every state but Vermont – perhaps the most liberal state in the country, but one where many, including Bernie Sanders, support gun rights – voters who reported living in a gun-owning household overwhelmingly backed Donald J. Trump.

    The opposite is true for voters who said they did not live in a home with a gun. In all but one state that could be measured, voters overwhelmingly preferred Hillary Clinton. (The exception was West Virginia; not enough data existed for Wyoming.)

    Over all, gun-owning households (roughly a third in America) backed Mr. Trump by 63 percent to 31 percent, while households without guns backed Mrs. Clinton, 65 percent to 30 percent, according to SurveyMonkey data.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/05/upshot/gun-ownership-partisan-divide.html

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
  137. @anon

    History is important.

    the world of Boomer-autists

    You’ve outed yourself as one of the many victims of “Boomer”-led education. Not just ignorance of history, but a complete dismissal of its importance. Damned progs should never have removed Latin fom the curriculum. Were you taught “fuzzy math”, too?

    It is critical to know whether slavery covered its costs, as that would be the only known instance of Africans ever doing so outside their continent.

    • Agree: V. K. Ovelund
    • Replies: @anon
    , @dfordoom
  138. @No Friend Of The Devil

    Slavery ended not as a result of a sudden moral or ethical awakening, but because the cotton gin was invented.

    No, that’s what allowed it to survive in America. It created a bubble that a few got rich off, and led them to dig in their heels.

    Had Whitney not perfected the gin (he didn’t invent it) when he did, the colonization movement would have been much more attractive to all sides, and thus stronger.

    Whitney did contribute to the ending of slavery, however– he sold the US Government, and Army, on the efficiency of interchangeable parts. That made quite a difference!

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  139. Corvinus says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    “I want defenders of the system to explain why they agree with the reparationists that the plantations made America rich. Are you one of those?”

    I am “one of those” who is offering evidence that demonstrates that plantation agriculture, in particular the planting of cotton, served as a major financial impetus for the growth of our great country. Now, what evidence are you able to muster to counter it?

    “Cotton was a bubble propped up by Whitney’s gin.”

    Sources?

    “The whole mess would have collapsed once the world discovered the superior workforces available around the world. ”

    And you know this definitively how?

    “Most cotton today comes from Asia.”

    OK. India is the largest producer of cotton, followed by the United States,.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/263055/cotton-production-worldwide-by-top-countries/

    “The other plantation products were mostly vices. Drug trades, in effect.”

    I could see how sugar is considered a “vice”. But rice and indigo? OK, make the argument that two commodities are “vices” and constitute “drug trades”.

    • Troll: YetAnotherAnon
  140. iffen says:
    @Talha

    is that this was not the majority of cases by any means and most were bred as families.

    There was quite a bit of this. I don’t know the numbers, but if you look at the 1870 census there are many mulattoes; men being men and slaves being slaves.

    if master slept with his young maid and his wife would know immediately

    Hillary Clinton is not the first of her kind.

  141. anon[343] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    History is important.

    Howard Zinn agrees. So does Winston Smith. So do the people toppling statues. Bet you don’t understand any of this.

    the world of Boomer-autists

    You’ve outed yourself as one of the many victims of “Boomer”-led education. Not just ignorance of history, but a complete dismissal of its importance.

    Nah, I just understand that rhetoric is not dialectic and vice versa, therefore I prefer to use the right tool for a given job. Someone on the autist spectrum put on his Spock ears and sets out to fix the world with his PURE LOGIX! then wonders why that fails.

    I bet you were a TEA party guy. This whole “slabery was a net drain to thuh south” will fail for reasons that should be so obvious.

    lol. Get a new hobby!

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  142. @No Friend Of The Devil

    Yes, there are racist people in America….

    Are there? In any significant numbers? As is, white persons that have substantially harmed black persons because the black persons are black? Who, please?

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  143. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Joe Stalin

    Love it when disarmed Aussies, Brits, New Zealanders lecture Americans about how useless being armed is!

    So exactly how are those disarmed Aussies, Brits and New Zealanders any worse off than armed Americans? Freedoms have been gradually eroded throughout the Anglosphere. In practice it hasn’t made any difference whether the populace was armed or not.

    When you get cancelled and you lose your livelihood and your whole life is destroyed get back to me and explain how owning a gun helped you.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
  144. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Reg Cæsar

    It is critical to know whether slavery covered its costs,

    Does that really matter? Whether slavery was economically effective or not seems pretty irrelevant compared to the moral question.

    Did sending people to concentration camps cover its costs for Nazi Germany? Did sending people to the GULAGs cover its costs for the Stalinist Soviet Union? Did chopping off all those heads cover its costs for Revolutionary France?

    In any case reparations are largely a matter of buying social peace and social cohesion. Social peace and social cohesion are surely worth paying a price for?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  145. dfordoom says: • Website
    @V. K. Ovelund

    Yes, there are racist people in America….

    Are there? In any significant numbers? As is, white persons that have substantially harmed black persons because the black persons are black? Who, please?

    There are different kinds of racism. You’ve only got to consider the joy that so many people in the US (and the Anglosphere in general) feel whenever the US starts dropping bombs on brown people in the Middle East. I think dropping bombs on people and trashing their countries counts as substantially harming. You’ve only got to look at the current anti-Chinese hysteria.

    It seems that whenever nice non-racist white people are put in a situation where it’s socially acceptable to express racial hatred they do so with enthusiasm.

    And I’m not picking on Americans – recent events have revealed an enormous amount of virulent anti-Chinese hatred in Australia.

    You’ve only got to scan the comments on the average Unz Review thread to see that racism, often of a particularly blood-curdling kind, hasn’t exactly gone away.

    And ask a nice non-racist middle-class white American married couple how they feel about sending their kids to a school that isn’t overwhelmingly white or Asian.

    What we see among whites in the modern Anglosphere is frantic virtue-signalling masking an extraordinary degree of underlying racial (and cultural) animosity.

    I’m not suggesting that whites have a monopoly on racism either, but what has really changed is that whites have become much more careful and selective in revealing their racial animosities. They’ve become masters of the art of hypocrisy.

    • Disagree: botazefa
  146. @Joe Stalin

    My own preference would be that we Americans avoided taunting our British, Australian, New Zealander and Canadian cousins. As an American, I too believe that Americans do some things better than some of the cousins do, including arming the citizenry. We probably do some things worse, though. Sharp taunts between the cousins were funny 40 years ago, but not really today.

    There are clearly some things well-meaning right-of-center cousins in Britain, Australia and New Zealand think that they understand about the United States but do not. (Canadians usually understand and are literally the only foreigners on earth that do; we U.S. Americans should be more grateful for this. The other cousins are misled by pervasive Jewish-American media.) The cousins sometimes offend a bit without meaning to. This is no cause for taunts.

    It is a dangerous world. To survive, we are all going to need one another. There is no getting around this. The conquest of any of our lands would, on its face, be a mortal threat to all of us—and would be understood by the conquerer to be a mortal threat to all of us.

    The Australians in particular have sent large numbers of conspicuously brave fighting men to bleed and die in just about every conflict the others have provoked. The Australians have asked for practically nothing in return. The Australians merit respect.

    If taunts must be issued, then can the taunts please target Jews and blacks first? But we do not dare. And if we do not dare, then let us at least show the grace to remain silent.

    To target our cousins when we do not dare to target the others is cheap. The Europeans are peoples we admire and with whom we share much, but they are not really our friends. The cousins are indeed our friends—not quite in the way the English used to mean when they overused the unfortunate phrase “special relationship,” but in a simpler and deeper way, in ineffable ties of history and blood. Such ties require no propaganda to maintain but do require an occasional bit of warmth and at least a rough regard for national feeling. Despite all provocations among the family including significant provocations by us Americans, the cousins are still our friends.

    And they are the only friends we have got.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    , @V. K. Ovelund
  147. @dfordoom

    I must admit that your rejoinder is entirely persuasive. Accepted. Good point.

  148. anon[147] • Disclaimer says:
    @No Friend Of The Devil

    Slavery is wrong in any case at all. Slavery ended not as a result of a sudden moral or ethical awakening, but because the cotton gin was invented.

    Did you know that slavery wasn’t a unique American invention? Did you know that slaves were kept in Africa long before Columbus sailed? Did you know that Muslim Saudi Arabia didn’t officially shut its slave market – for buying and selling humans – until the mid 1960’s? Did you know that the slave market of Khartoum in Muslim Sudan was still open for buying and selling humans 20 years ago? In theory it closed in 2002, but…hmm.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Sudan

    By the way, how many slaves are still held in Africa in places such as Sudan, the Islamic Republic of Mauritania and quite possibly Libya?

    Do you understand that none of these facts mean anything to the people calling for slavery reparations to black people?

  149. Dr. Doom says:

    Paying off bullies never buys “peace”. Quite the contrary.

    They don’t want reparations. That implies they were harmed and deserve compensation.

    They want TRIBUTE. Or else violence.

    At some point the gun owners have to step up.

    The enemy will not stop. They must BE STOPPED.

    The Left wants a marxist revolution. Its WAR whether you want it or not.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  150. @dfordoom

    “So exactly how are those disarmed Aussies, Brits and New Zealanders any worse off than armed Americans? ”

    Currently, firearms ownership is rallying point. The NRA and the Gun Lobby put their efforts and muscle into close elections. You disarmed people don’t even have that. Look at all those firearms that have been purchased this year and will be purchased in the future. Maybe not all, but a LOT of those people will become Second Amendment voters. A lot of those people will acquire more firearms, and many people will have children grow up in a gun household. Gun culture will expand and that in itself makes ordinary US citizens capable of thinking of themselves NOT as a cog in the wheel.

    What do you have? The standard we-are-people-we-can-form-mobs apparently.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  151. @anon

    Nah, I just understand that rhetoric is not dialectic and vice versa

    “Dialectic” is a Marxist word. It means nothing to men of action, unless the action is mass murder.

    slabery was a net drain to thuh south

    My point was that the black man has always been a net drain to the white man. That seems to have gone past you like a duck fart in a windstorm.

    Whites cannot profit from black labor if no such labor has ever been found. Have you found some, somewhere? Clue us in. Do you know someone who has broken the speed of light?

    …to use the right tool for a given job.

    Anonymity? If you’ve posted the “right tool” for this “given job” on this site, there is no way for us to find it. In addition, you keep resorting to pop fad buzzwords like “Boomer” and “autist” that didn’t exist 30 years ago.

    put on his Spock ears

    There was nothing notable about Benjamin Spock’s ears.

    • Replies: @anon
  152. @V. K. Ovelund

    “The Australians in particular have sent large numbers of conspicuously brave fighting men to bleed and die in just about every conflict the others have provoked. The Australians have asked for practically nothing in return. The Australians merit respect.”

    More than 60,000 Australians served in Vietnam between 1962 and 1972. Over 500 Australians were killed during the deeply unpopular war between the Soviet-backed Communist government of North Vietnam and South Vietnam’s U.S.-backed regime, which ceased to exist after the fall of Saigon in 1975.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-australia-vietnamwar-remains/after-five-decades-australian-soldiers-killed-in-vietnam-war-come-home-idUSKCN0YO0CW

    Average 50+ KIA/ year.

    Their one big battle:

    • Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
    • Replies: @nebulafox
  153. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Dr. Doom

    At some point the gun owners have to step up.

    The enemy will not stop. They must BE STOPPED.

    The Left wants a marxist revolution. Its WAR whether you want it or not.

    Are you sure you’re not a Fed? If you’re not then you’re talking absolute lunacy.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  154. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Joe Stalin

    Gun culture will expand and that in itself makes ordinary US citizens capable of thinking of themselves NOT as a cog in the wheel.

    Which is simply an illusion. It’s a fantasy. Your freedoms are still being eroded. Your culture is still going down the toilet. You’re still being screwed by your elites. You’re still powerless and marginalised. Any time the Woke crowd wants to cancel you they can and there’s not a damned thing you can do about it. Your daughters will still be sharing locker rooms with bearded men in frocks.

    And any time the government wants to ship you off to Guantanamo Bay they can do it and you can’t stop them.

    Try it. Next time an SJW decides to cancel you or someone from the government infringes another of your freedoms try telling them they can’t do it because you have lots of guns. They’ll call a SWAT team on you and if you’re lucky enough not to get shot down you’ll end up behind bars. And they’re likely to label you a terrorist so you can kiss your legal rights goodbye.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
  155. @dfordoom

    In any case reparations are largely a matter of buying social peace and social cohesion. Social peace and social cohesion are surely worth paying a price for?

    Surely you’re not mistaking these people for Japanese-Americans?

  156. @dfordoom

    Everything you said could have been said in 2016. The inevitability of being on “the wrong side of history” sometimes ain’t necessarily so. We got Trump, not HRC. Hell, who would have thought we would get CCW in Chicago a decade ago? I heard a former CPD Chief of police, Garry McCarthy on WGN radio complain how the IL State Rifle Association defeated a gun bill simply by showing it to the Black politicians in Springfield, IL. Gun people have political power, no matter what Aussies think otherwise.

    Only a fool would telegraph resistance to a SJW. That’s why you brought up it up as a strawman.

  157. nebulafox says:
    @Joe Stalin

    If you want a bigger example of forgotten allies of the US in Vietnam, look at South Korea. The ROKA lost around 5,000 men in Vietnam and were, by all accounts, extremely effective. The Viet Cong utterly detested them and regularly used anti-Korean animus (with strong racial overtones that would have been awkwardly received in Hanoi given the presence of North Korean pilots prior to 1968-and after 1968, the Viet Cong was no longer pseudo-independent fighting force of its own, something that Hanoi probably privately wanted) in their propaganda. But they also grimly respected their eagerness to “get in the jungle” with them in their communiques, behavior that often starkly contrasted with the other foreigners they dealt with.

    A lot of historical debates about Vietnam in the US reflect cultural positions about American history and politics rather than anything to do with the war itself. The Vietnamese themselves are often reduced to passive actors in their own civil war, both by the Left and the Right. That couldn’t be further from the truth: both Vietnamese governments pursued their own interests vigorously, often independently of patrons. This isn’t to say that superpower influence didn’t matter at all, but portraying the Vietnam War as “the Americans in Vietnam” War prevents a better understanding of the conflict itself.

    One could argue that part of what did Saigon in was that their ability to do play that game was permanently crippled after Diem’s assassination. By the time the government stabilized, it was late 1967 and Tet was coming.

    • Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
    • Replies: @Twinkie
  158. nebulafox says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Slavery ended because the Union won the Civil War. For once, it really is that simple. The institution could only be abolished when the Confederacy was utterly crushed.

    It’s possible that had history turned out differently, slavery could have gone through the natural extinction process that indentured servitude did: certainly a lot of Americans thought that in the 1780s. That’s why the 1808 ban on further slave importation was seen as a solution in a pre-cotton gin, pre-Haiti world. But history obviously didn’t turn out that way, and you can already see the seeds of war brewing multiple decades before Fort Sumter.

    >Had Whitney not perfected the gin (he didn’t invent it) when he did, the colonization movement would have been much more attractive to all sides, and thus stronger.

    Would it have been? Within one generation, American slaves would have next to no connection to African languages or customs. This wasn’t the case in every slave-holding society, but you had to have the slaves utterly dominate the whites demographically for vestiges of African identity to persist. Haiti is a good example of that happening. By 1820, the degree of cultural divergence between American slaves and Africans was already too significant to be bridged: the American Liberians ended up imitating the behavior of white slave-holders and segregationists. To this day-I think-they remain the dominant caste in that country.

    (Africa in the words of Tricky Dick: “The worst is Liberia, and we built it!”)

    It would have had to happen earlier and would have probably had to have been coupled with an offer of immediate emancipation that I don’t see any slaveholder agreeing to. My impression is that the reconolonization movement really got intellectual steam in the 19th Century, and that’s too late, IMO.

    • Replies: @Talha
  159. Talha says:
    @nebulafox

    Would it have been? Within one generation, American slaves would have next to no connection to African languages or customs.

    Interestingly, I recently came across a convert black brother on a podcast who was mentioning that he had actually met an elderly black sister lady in Cleveland who mentioned she didn’t convert, but that her family had remained Muslim since they arrived. Apparently her great-great-great…grandfather was purchased because he was an educated man who was literate and knew multiple languages. His master had purchased him to teach foreign languages to his children.

    Anyway, this man had kids with a slave woman and tried to keep Islam within his family. He ended up losing both his hands because he refused to quit teaching his children how to read Qur’an (eventually stubbornly persisting by using his toes – mashaAllah). His efforts paid off though in the end and his successive generations kept Islam in their family though they lost the languages and other culture.

    So some did succeed in certain aspects, but I’m certain that they were a very, very small percentage.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @RSDB
  160. Dr. Doom says:

    You’re not an Aussie. You don’t talk like them dfordoom.

    Much like Corvinus isn’t really black like he pretends.

    There are idioms that are hard to put on, even on the web.

    I’m just saying what the facts say. The Marxists are on the move.

    George Soros is OLD. So are the 1960s “revolutionaries”.

    They have to act NOW before they croak in a few months or years.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  161. RSDB says:
    @Talha

    That’s interesting, if it’s true she should write it up, or at the very least he should research it properly and get a study published. I’d really love to know if there are any more stories like that and I’d hate for them to die out in this generation.

    On the other hand I had an Irish roommate one year who insisted that family lore said his ancestors came over to America long before Columbus, after the lands in the West had been discovered by Brendan the Navigator. I was a little skeptical.

    • Replies: @Talha
  162. anon[159] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Nah, I just understand that rhetoric is not dialectic and vice versa

    “Dialectic” is a Marxist word.

    Aristotle was a Marxist? For real? Wow! Are you sure?

    It means nothing to men of action, unless the action is mass murder.

    Lol, “men of action” don’t spend all day in comboxes, Reg.

    slabery was a net drain to thuh south

    My point was that the black man has always been a net drain to the white man.

    I am totally sure that point will be ultra persuasive to the House during a debate over reparations. Totally, totally sure.

    lol.

    …to use the right tool for a given job.

    Anonymity?

    Nah. It’s axiomatic that a person who didn’t reason themselves into a state of mind cannot be reasoned out. Emotional people wrapped up in emotional emotionalism are not gonna even listen to the usual TEA party “now, here are the facts” logic.

    If you want to persuade people, use persuasion, not lectures. That’s why your boneheaded argument fails, you can’t even deal with Coronavinus.

    If you’ve posted the “right tool” for this “given job” on this site, there is no way for us to find it.

    Your Google is broken? Too bad!

    In addition, you keep resorting to pop fad buzzwords like “Boomer” and “autist” that didn’t exist 30 years ago.

    Your inability to keep up isn’t my problem.

    Something something old dog new tricks, I guess.

    LOL @ your Quixotic[1] hobby!

    [1]That’s a reference to a character in an old book that you probably have not read. When your Google is fixed, try looking it up.

    • Replies: @botazefa
    , @Reg Cæsar
  163. Talha says:
    @RSDB

    That’s interesting, if it’s true she should write it up

    I don’t believe she is around any more, unfortunately. It is likely something passed down from generation to generation in that family. I’m doubtful it is documented somewhere. It doesn’t sound implausible though it certainly sounds unique – which I will agree it is. I don’t think I’ve come across the story of another person that had retained Islam that far in their family. I have heard of some blacks that mentioned something like; my great grandma used to say “Allah, Allah” all the time or sit and do some dhikr of sorts, but this is the first case I have come across (personally) where Islam came through to the modern generation. The brother is well known in the Cleveland community and married a Senegalese sister; I don’t think he (nor the elderly sister who passed away) would make it up.

    or at the very least he should research it properly and get a study published.

    I would love that too and time is of the essence; with every passing year, more and more links to this history pass away, as you mentioned.

    I was a little skeptical.

    I would be too if they claimed something like; “They cut off his tongue but he still taught them how to recite perfect Qur’an.”

    Peace.

    • Replies: @RSDB
  164. RSDB says:
    @Talha

    Sure, there are presumptions in favour of its authenticity, but there are also bits that are a little odd, like the cutting off of the hands; presumably after that the owner didn’t expect much more useful language teaching out of the guy, so if he cared that much about what the guy was teaching his own black children (which seems a little odd given his utter lack of care about the welfare of the slave himself) he could’ve just sold him somewhere else instead.

    Or if, as in the story, he didn’t care about mutilation (which was illegal under the codes of at least some slave states –I suspect in all, but I’m not sure– though I doubt this law was actually enforced much) the master could’ve taken your advice and ripped out the man’s tongue, or put out his eyes, or both. Reading suddenly becomes a lot harder in that case.

    I suspect there may well be a kernel of truth in this story but it’s probably been exaggerated a great deal over the generations. And now we’ll never know one way or the other, which is really a shame.

    To everybody reading this, please do the world a favor and if you have any really curious family lore dating back centuries or know anybody who does, at the very least write it down. Or contact the sociology or anthropology department of one of your local universities and they will probably be very interested.

    • Replies: @Talha
  165. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Dr. Doom

    I’m just saying what the facts say. The Marxists are on the move.

    It’s not the 1950s any more. Communism was yesterday’s threat. What is happening today is something quite different.

    What we’re facing is an unholy alliance alliance between Big Business and Big Government. Their economic agenda is basically right-wing but with Big Business helping itself to generous amounts of taxpayers’ money. Big Business and Big Government are two pigs feeding at the same trough. In the US things are slightly more complicated because there’s a third pig feeding at the trough – the military.

    Their social agenda is an extreme social liberal one, but you have to remember that liberalism is in its essence a right-wing ideology.

    The enemy of today is in every way the diametric opposite of Marxism. Any government that has actually espoused anything resembling Marxism has tended towards social conservatism. Marxism is if you like economic leftist and social conservative. What we’re facing today is an enemy that is economic rightist and social liberal.

    The actual Marxists are long gone.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
  166. Talha says:
    @RSDB

    I suspect there may well be a kernel of truth in this story but it’s probably been exaggerated a great deal over the generations. And now we’ll never know one way or the other, which is really a shame.

    That’s certainly possible also; “Jimmy, your grandpa cleaned out a machine gun nest full of Germans!”

    “What? My grandpa took on five tanks by himself, with just a machine gun??!!”

    Good suggestion about the family lore.

    Peace.

  167. iffen says:
    @dfordoom

    You’ve only got to consider the joy that so many people in the US (and the Anglosphere in general)

    Where do you come up with nonsense like this?

    Anyway, most people regret that those brown people forced us to start killing them.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @Talha
  168. @V. K. Ovelund

    After sleeping on it, I regret writing so harshly:

    If taunts must be issued, then can the taunts please target Jews and blacks first? But we do not dare.

    There may not be any black readers but there are indeed Jewish readers. I do not deny that I distrust Jews as a rule, that I observe that Jews as a people suffer from an almost wholly meritless persecution complex, or that I ardently wish that Jews, as a people, would leave the rest of us alone; but it is also true that individual Jews of my acquaintance have (unlike, say, a certain, singular, duplicitous Jewish jackass that haunts these forums) been kind and considerate, whereas kindness and consideration are precisely the qualities my outburst lacked.

  169. Twinkie says:
    @nebulafox

    If you want a bigger example of forgotten allies of the US in Vietnam, look at South Korea. The ROKA lost around 5,000 men in Vietnam and were, by all accounts, extremely effective.

    South Korea maintained a force of 50,000 men in Vietnam to assist the U.S. Overall, more than 300,000 South Korean military personnel served there. An additional 100,000 civilians also served there. It was the largest Free World contingent aside from the United States. And the South Koreans did this all the while there was considerable military tension with and threats from North Korea.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  170. Twinkie says:
    @V. K. Ovelund

    You, sir, are an adult – a most rare creature on the internet these days.

    I regard very highly men who can admit mistakes, however small or large. With such men one can discuss, argue, co-exist, and cooperate like human beings.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  171. nebulafox says:
    @Twinkie

    You see me arguing? ROKA scared the crap out of the Vietnamese at a time where they had an undeclared war on their own northern border. That’s not small beer, there.

    Tough, hard, indomitable SOBs. Even their enemies admitted that.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  172. nebulafox says:
    @Twinkie

    People who are afraid to admit error in random Internet debates with people who they will never meet… I mean, if you feel like you have your whole “honor” on the line here, you need to reevaluate your life’s priorities.

    Have a feeling that not a little of current societal dysfunction is the result of a world where status is so highly dependent on outside opinion and not deeds.

    • Agree: V. K. Ovelund
    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    , @Twinkie
  173. @dfordoom

    Others have pointed this out, too. I am starting to think that you and they might be correct:

    What we’re facing today is an enemy that is economic rightist and social liberal.

    Most strange. Having reached a certain age, one finds it hard to assimilate new paradigms like this, yet assimilation of this new paradigm seems necessary nevertheless.

    Even stranger (to me) is that I myself have during my adult life gradually migrated from what you would call an economic rightist position to a vaguely economic leftist position. I never expected to do that. Am not sure exactly when it happened, either.

  174. @nebulafox

    … with people who they will never meet …

    I wish that I could meet some of you. Heck, I have some hamburgers in the freezer right now and the weather is fine. We would grill.

    It’s not very practical, I know. If I invited you I would only draw suspicion of being a mole, and we undoubtedly live far from one another in any case; but the loss of public trust that makes meetings impractical is unfortunate, nevertheless.

    • Agree: Talha
    • Replies: @nebulafox
  175. Erzberger says:
    @dfordoom

    The Us is obsessed with black and white, and other skin colours, even though racism equally occurs within various black, brown, yellow, red and white peoples. As well as the tribes of Israel, ancient and modern. The Brits and Americans dropped plenty of bombs and Napalm on white people (German, French, Italian, Belgian) in WW II, supposedly for their liberation, and destroyed much of their cities and cultural heritage. The inmates subjected to starvation of Lord Kitchener’s concentration camps during the Boer War were predominantly white (plus their loyal black servants) Hitler tried to avoid bombing Britain but had no problems with bombing Slavs who are no darker than Brits or Germans. The Koreans feel racially superior to all other Asians. As do the Han Chinese. Racism is universal and has very little to do with skin pigmentation.

  176. Dr. Doom says:

    The Marxists have ALWAYS been supported by the Rich.

    The 1917 Revolution in Russia was funded ENTIRELY by Wall Street.

    Nothing much changes in their strategy or tactics.

    Big Banks bankroll the Marxists, who do not directly attack the Rich.

    They attack the Middle Class, or bourgeoisie.

    Soviet Communism is about the Really Rich and the Really Poor.

    The Rich want Marxism. They do not pay income taxes.

    They make their bankroll on capital gains and rent-seeking.

  177. botazefa says:
    @anon

    It’s axiomatic that a person who didn’t reason themselves into a state of mind cannot be reasoned out

    Not remotely true. It sounds clever and has nice symmetry to it, but the fact is that people are reasoned out of irrational positions all the time.

    But it true that some people are recalcitrant and attempting to reason with them is an exhausting proposition.

    I’m already tired.

    • Replies: @anon
  178. dfordoom says: • Website
    @iffen

    Anyway, most people regret that those brown people forced us to start killing them.

    At least you’ve given me my laugh for the day.

  179. DanFromCT says:
    @216

    Nicely said–that Antifa does what the state cannot do on its own, which goes for BLM as well.

  180. DanFromCT says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    So far, all the talk from Trump’s base about an armed citizenry able to resist tyranny has proved empty bluster, such as dares to come take their guns. I voted for Trump and will again under the circumstances, but his empty bluster enrages rather than contains the Left. I’m still looking for the sort of planning we’ll need when deputized, armed, and lavishly funded Black Panthers and the like march down Main Street USA concealed within the “hands up, don’t shoot” Trojan horse playing whites for dupes in the critical moments before the latter are disarmed and dealt with South African style. That white women still give the Dems their edge is suicidal given that once the BLM/Antifa/Black Panther regime consolidates power under deep state control and corporate sponsorship could lead to South African-style gang rape of white women before their breasts and genitals are cut off and they and their children’s body parts are found strewn along the roads of surburban and rural America. It can’t happen here even though it already is in Sweden.

    If things continue the way they’re going, should we expect what was prophesied inCamp of the Saints, with white children assigned to read <White Fragility instead of Uhuru or Camp of the Saints, while their parents must praise the little angels denunciation of America or risk CPS or police raids into their homes. With Trump and the Republicans talking patriotism but demonizing anything to the right, I see parades down Main Street with police motorcades leading BLM, Antifa, and Black Panthers brandishing loaded rifles and pistols into town, not road blocks of armed citizens who recognize that entreaties to talk or “hands up, don’t shoot” Trojan horses are tactical moves ensuring the locals get overrun like school children. The Left has been working on this in Syria for some time now, according to Syria Girl, and I’d expect they’re so far ahead of decent people as to make any resistance a rout taking merely days.

    There’s no unity on the right, and I’d say it’s by design, starting from Trump’s empty bluster as our heritage is destroyed with abandon. It’s also rather suspicious that Fox News, which exists to encapsulate the Israeli first meme within mawkish jingoism and Country Western shtick coming straight to Main Street from Times Square, is all on board with CV19 and demoralization of patriotism by maintaining the results of the coming election are for some strange reason sacrosanct in a divided nation of inimical forces in which the continued existence of one entails the annihilation of the other.

    • Replies: @A123
  181. Talha says:
    @iffen

    Anyway, most people regret that those brown people forced us to start killing them.

    Punks! They shouldn’t have not had the WMD that we accused them of having…that’ll teach them!

    Peace.

  182. nebulafox says:
    @V. K. Ovelund

    From the government? I’m really not that important. Few if any of us are.

    I am a bit more concerned about people like this. (You can tell from the phrases that this chick was a late Millenial/early Zoomer, BTW, the words give it away. Trust me, I know what I am talking about.)

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jessesingal/status/1281069172865347585

    But the rats are finally beginning to flee the cancel mob ship: slower than I would like, but they are. I’d really prefer for some of those opportunistic sleazebags who signed that letter to get a taste of the hell they endorsed for others, but it is more important that Thermidor comes.

  183. @anon

    Your inability to keep up isn’t my problem.

    I don’t follow hip-hop, and never will.

    Lol, “men of action” don’t spend all day in comboxes, Reg.

    No, we sire children. I just took mine to Rushmore.

    Your Google is broken? Too bad!

    All anon and Anononymous are equal here, and the numbers change. That you refuse to use an identifiable screen name shows your confidence level to be down somewhere with your manners.

    If you’re looking for something to blame the amorphous “boomers” for, why not take up their failure to pass on the rules of respect and courtesy?

    If you want to persuade people, use persuasion, not lectures. That’s why your boneheaded argument fails, you can’t even deal with Coronavinus.

    Deal with it? I survived it.

    I bet I was reading Ogilvy before you were born. Bernays, too, in excerpts. Ries and Trout.

    You are not persuasive.

    I use logic here because other commenters expect it.

  184. A123 says:
    @DanFromCT

    Armed middle class citizens have protected their communities. The Fake Stream Media either refuses coverage or mischaracterizes it as some type of racism. The reason why shootouts have been avoided is that Black Islamic Lives Matter [BLIM] has been busy burning down their own communities. BLIM acolytes rarely leave areas under their domination.

    How well do you think BLIMies would do in Clay County? (1)

    “If we can’t handle you, I’ll exercise the power and authority as the sheriff, and I’ll make special deputies of every lawful gun owner in this county and I’ll deputize them for this one purpose to stand in the gap between lawlessness and civility,” [Clay County Sheriff Darryl] Daniels said.

    “That’s what we’re sworn to do. That’s what we’re going to do. You’ve been warned.”

    Daniels, a Black man, evoked his oath of office and rebuked the Black Lives Matter movement. He also bragged about the “great quality of life” in the Jacksonville suburb and the force’s “great relationship” with the citizenry.

    BLIM temporarily occupied the Max Blue parts of Blue cities in Blue States. No long term gains were made. In fact, Team Blue signed their own self-termination order with this stunt. Without employees those Blue Cities have no payroll tax revenue to buy Blue votes with Blue handouts.

    Imagine the horror of Government Employee Unions when Minneapolis repudiates pensions for city retires as part of their municipal bankruptcy. The SJW Globalist DNC is about to implode. It is the political version of the Hubris of Icarus.

    PEACE 😇
    _______

    (1) https://atlantablackstar.com/2020/07/02/black-republican-sheriff-threatens-to-deputize-gun-owners-if-protesters-come-to-his-florida-county-youve-been-warned/

  185. Twinkie says:
    @nebulafox

    You see me arguing?

    I wasn’t arguing with you – just providing additional context for other readers here.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  186. Twinkie says:
    @nebulafox

    People who are afraid to admit error in random Internet debates with people who they will never meet… I mean, if you feel like you have your whole “honor” on the line here, you need to reevaluate your life’s priorities.

    If anything, continuing to “carry on” when one is wrong is… dishonorable.

    Nonetheless I applauded “V. K. Ovelund,” because this is an adult behavior that is rare on the Internet. Along with sincere apologies,* frank, manly admissions of mistakes have all but disappeared on and, sadly, offline.

    *Nobody apologizes sincerely anymore – it’s always “If you were offended…” One apologizes because one felt that he was wrong, not because someone was or was not offended. If I did wrong, even if no one was offended, I ought to apologize. Likewise, if I didn’t do wrong, I should NOT apologize no matter who was offended.

  187. nebulafox says:
    @Twinkie

    Sincere apologies. I was intoxicated last night and my social analysis sucks more than usual in that state.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  188. Twinkie says:
    @nebulafox

    I appreciate the apology. I was a bit surprised by the sharp tone of that comment, given that you are ordinarily very earnest and moderate here, and our exchanges have been always quite cordial.

    Thanks.

  189. @mderpelding

    Good point. Unfortunately for the South, Britain didn’t recognize them as a colony or a country when it came time to sh*t or get off the pot.

  190. @Reg Cæsar

    No, we sire children. I just took mine to Rushmore.

    It’s a heck of a sight, isn’t it? It makes quite an impression on children. Indeed, it makes quite an impression on adults.

    No photograph ever taken does Mt. Rushmore justice. One never realizes how impressive it truly is until one sees the hulking immensity of it, up close, with one’s own eyes.

    I do not know whether they will dynamite the thing but, if they do, it’s a shame.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  191. @V. K. Ovelund

    There have construction barriers in place since last year. You can’t enter the Avenue of Flags, but can see it through Plexiglass or whatever. This probably made Trump’s security detail even easier.

    The trails are still mostly open, but are for the hardy. I could imagine someone attacking some of the more controversial state flags, but they’ll just have to wait.

    We went just for the evenly lighting ceremony. More intimate.

    Mount Rushmore Memorial to begin major construction projects

    2020 Mount Rushmore Construction Update

    Also more intimate, and more fun, are the presidents’ statues, all but the present one, on the street corners of Rapid City. The kids and I found GW Bush with dried spittle on his face, and Reagan with a cigarette but in his pupil. My wife says Jefferson’s lectern had ice cream all over it.

    As a product of upstate New York, I hate FDR myself and always want to apologize to others for our having spawned him. (For some reason, they don’t want to listen.) But I didn’t vandalize his statue, just took a picture of his microphones, leaving out his face.

    I’ll be happy to have to wait four more years for Trump’s statue. They’re all themed, and I hope his will be the escalator. Don’t wear your Crocs!

  192. anon[823] • Disclaimer says:
    @botazefa

    Not remotely true. It sounds clever and has nice symmetry to it, but the fact is that people are reasoned out of irrational positions all the time.

    Please provide some examples.

    I’ll start from the other side:

    * A woman in my family was strongly pro choice. “I’ll get an abortion if I want to!” level. She married, she got pregnant, apparently at an early OB appointment she heard the heart beat of that “undifferentiated blob of cells”. Over the next couple of years she became pretty opposed to abortion. It was personal experience and emotion, not reason. Nobody reasoned with her as far as I know.

    What examples do you have of people being reasoned out of an irrational position?

    • Replies: @botazefa
  193. @brabantian

    James Fields was involved in a death in one of the highest profile public events in the last decade. That’s not much of a barometer. A lot of cases are settled with NDAs. The key is to avoid hanging yourself. That means no open source intelligence. If they cancel you with your own facebook profile, you’re SOL.

  194. @nebulafox

    The scene in St. Louis didn’t seem much different.

  195. @fnn

    French youths and teens, undoubtedly.

  196. @Corvinus

    The prosperity of the late 19th century, the greatest period of economic growth in the nation’s history, dwarfed this.

  197. @V. K. Ovelund

    That sounds like political maneuvering more than cancelling per se, a pretense to get a perceived pesk out of the way. Is there any prospect of the details following you wherever you go? Even if not, it is a dreadful time to have such a thing happen. It’s never good, but this is especially bad timing.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
  198. @Richard Hill

    It can sort the hell out of tomatoes.

  199. @Dumbo

    They’re not having children.

    • Agree: Talha
  200. @Audacious Epigone

    Is there any prospect of the details following you wherever you go?

    I have taken care to make no enemies. Therefore, there is probably little prospect of the details following me. Unfortunately, jobs like the good one I lost are not very available, especially to white Gentile males. I’ll never get a job like that again.

    … a pretense to get a perceived pesk out of the way.

    The weird thing was that no one that actually knew me—including the chief’s secretary, the chief’s deputy and my supervisor (none of whom is a white Gentile male) perceived me as a pesk. They tried telling the chief so, to no avail.

    I do believe as you suspect, that I got caught accidentally in the gears of some larger, institutional political machination; but I also believe that I was too normal, had too many natural children by one wife, and—hence—was reasonably suspected of being a Trump voter despite that I had never discussed politics at work. Even in the warped minds of the Woke, the last was not (quite) a firing offense, but it did mean that no one was expected to come to my defense.

    When senior colleagues did come to my defense, anyway, the chief was gobsmacked; but then he decided that the defense was a challenge to his authority (which it might indeed have been; I was not in the room) and, therefore, that I had to go.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
  201. @V. K. Ovelund

    There are black commenters and so there are definitely black readers. A prerequisite of engaging here is, unless the one doing the engaging is a masochist, to not be triggered by the ascribing of tendencies to groups.

  202. @Reg Cæsar

    This particular anon comments frequently and always with content that is to be reckoned with. I, too, wish he’d adopt a handle for the benefits of the rest of the readership.

    • Agree: botazefa
  203. botazefa says:
    @anon

    What examples do you have of people being reasoned out of an irrational position?

    Boy has overbearing mother who is cruel to him. Boy grows into man who thinks women are trying to manipulate him. After many failed relationship, man goes into talk therapy and learns about projection. He learns that women aren’t out to get him, but his mother may have been.

    Talk therapy is all about reasoning people out of irrational beliefs.

    Certainly, some people can’t be reasoned out of some of their irrational beliefs. Most can. If they couldn’t, humanity could not be where it is today.

    • Replies: @anon
  204. anon[115] • Disclaimer says:
    @botazefa

    Talk therapy is all about reasoning people out of irrational beliefs.

    Ok. What’s the success rate, based on your own experience as a therapist or psychologist?

    Now, what sort of talk therapy would you suggest to convince the Congress of the US that reparations are not a good idea because slavery actually was a net drain on the Southern states? I ask because that’s the context. Up the thread Reggie and others were batting nearly random numbers around on that topic, remember? It was pure lols because obviously none of them have ever been near a legislative hearing or even a committee meeting.

    tl;dr
    I do not believe that Nancy Pelosi can be reasoned out of her positions on reparations, but if you think that’s possible then I’d like to see your evidence. Or a plan of action.

    Certainly, some people can’t be reasoned out of some of their irrational beliefs. Most can.

    Evidence? Consider the Cathars of Languadoc, how did the Roman church go about reasoning them out of their beliefs? If you look across history it can be seen that reason plays a very small role indeed in the changing of beliefs.

    The Turkish government has revived using Hagia Sofia as a mosque. How would you reason them out of the belief that’s a good thing? What form or process of reason changed Hagia Sofia from a church to a mosque in the first place?

    If they couldn’t, humanity could not be where it is today.

    Because reason always triumphs over emotion? Reals always rule over feels? Can we see this in the current year, where calm, reasoned discourse has led supporters of Only Black Lives Matter to reconsider the fun of burning parts of cities down?

    Do you know how cigarettes became popular items for American women back in the late 1920’s? Was it reason or emotion?

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Edward_Bernays

  205. anon[115] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    I bet I was reading Ogilvy before you were born. Bernays, too, in excerpts. Ries and Trout.

    There is no evidence of this in your emotional blurts. Tell us again how Aristotle was a Marxist! I’m really interested in knowing!

    By the way, Boomer and autist are words that date back to the 1980’s if not earlier, and they do not derive from hip-hop, so you really have no excuse for your ignorance even if your Google is still broken. I know it can be a challenge for an older person to learn new things, but you should try.

    “Man of Action”
    We sire children

    So does just about every other mammal. It’s nice of you to take your wife’s children to National Parks, but really dude, that’s hardly being a “man of action”. More like being a grandpa.

    You are not persuasive.

    Dude, I’m laughing at you and providing free instruction to old men. Not my prob if they can’t learn.

    I use logic here

    This statement is false by demonstration. See all the above comments in this subthread.

    Now, let’s return to your original position: that somehow “proof” of Southern slavery as a net cost to the South will be a great tool to argue against “reparations” in Nancy Pelosi’s House next year. Please provide some details how this will work. I’m sure that you’ve been intimately involved in the creation of legislation in the past – when you weren’t dropping thousands of comments – so which subcommittees would you expect to be called to testify before? Which Congressional reps would you plan to provide your “data” to? How would you go about dealing with the inevitable accusations of racism and hate plus doxxing?

    Again, you can’t deal with Coronavinus in comments and “surviving” that interaction…LOL.. doesn’t count. So it’s very unlikely that any of this keyboard kommandoism of yours on the topic of reparations has any but the most tenuous connection with reality.

  206. @V. K. Ovelund

    This comment, too long for a general audience, will interest few readers. Most can stop reading! However, if a reader to whom my circumstance happens to be relevant is reading, then my explanation has left a hole. This comment now fills the hole as follows.

    I wrote:

    The weird thing was that no one that actually knew me—including the chief’s secretary, the chief’s deputy and my supervisor (none of whom is a white Gentile male) perceived me as a pesk. They tried telling the chief so, to no avail.

    But why did the chief perceive me as a pesk?

    The answer is that the chief did not perceive me as a pesk. He hardly perceived me at all.

    It is a strange part of the story. The chief had been on the job three years, so he had not been there when I was interviewed, hired or trained. By the time he arrived, I was just one of about 100 members of the team he inherited on the day he assumed his station. Moreover, I never reported to the chief directly, so he had little reason to get to know me very well.

    Nonetheless, after three years, it was a bit odd that the chief did not know me at all. Most other managers of a department of this size would know all names, positions and faces after a single year, but not this manager, apparently.

    Even odder was that, for a full year, my desk had stood on the same floor of the same building as the chief’s desk stood. The chief used to walk past my open door a few times a week on his way to see my supervisor. The chief thus must have known what the back of my head looked like, at least.

    The chief and I even resorted to the same washroom during that year. He must have seen me once or twice in there. I even spoke to him once briefly while we were taking turns at the basin.

    Still, while cashiering me, the chief incidentally revealed that he had (until I accidentally drew his wrath) been unaware that I belonged to his department. His secretary was a friend of mine but, you know how it goes: every department in a large bureaucracy has its share of prima donnas who always want the chief’s attention. I didn’t want to be a prima donna, so I just did my job, worked within my chain of command, collected my salary, and kept problems off the chief’s desk. Most managers come gradually to appreciate competent, quiet subordinates who behave as I did, but not this manager, apparently.

    So when the chief was informed by his superior—a person I have never seen and would not recognize—that some character in the chief’s department, name of Ovelund, had committed a mortal sin against Political Correctness (namely, asking a foreign student kindly to speak English in the classroom), the chief was embarrassed, since he could not even tell his superior who I was.

    What made it more embarrassing was that the written rules of the university stood squarely on my side, and the chief and his superior knew it. Not that I was trying to leverage rules. I wasn’t. If the chief or my supervisor had hinted to me that I should adjust my behavior, I’d have done it. As it was, however, the chief apparently popped off on the spot, in his superior’s presence, that he would take care of the matter; and then he and his superior’s office hatched an administrative scheme to get rid of me without actually firing me; so by the time my supervisor found out and tried to intervene, too much institutional political capital had been invested in my dismissal and, thus, I just had to be dismissed.

    Anyway, the chief (who until then could not be bothered to learn my name) fished up a pretext—an irrelevant, trivial error I made that, under normal circumstances, no one would have noticed, much less rebuked—to make it all my fault. Senior colleagues of mine objected to such a transparent maneuver but that only put the chief’s back up, as it were. Everyone including senior colleagues knew the unwritten rule: Trump voters were not protected. And even though I had never discussed politics at work, I too obviously fit the demographic that would vote for Trump—and my request that the foreign student speak English just proved it.

    For information, the chief is a white Gentile male. I have never met his superior but, as far as I know, the superior is not a white Gentile male. If you wish to hear about the aforementioned trivial error, I cannot tell you without doxxing myself and I would only bore you if I could. Just think of some trivial error you yourself have made at work this month, an error no one noticed and no one normally would. That will do.

    That is quite enough of the story now. I believe that that fills the hole, but if any reader has further questions, why, the reader can ask.

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