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There is an increasingly common take on the jaded right that upon Biden’s swearing in next January, all the hysteria and top-down dictates concerning COVID will evaporate like the morning dew. Same with the riots. The implicit deal with the American public is if they vote Biden/Harris things will return to normal. This blogger had similar thoughts. As time has gone on and the restrictions have remained in place, though, I’ve come to doubt as much:

An overwhelming majority of Americans do not merely condone and want to see encouraged the use of masks, they want it made and kept mandatory. Refraining from burning down buildings and assaulting people in the street is not mandatory, but breathing in your stagnant midday breath with a cloth strapped across your face is. Got it? For those who don’t, we have the cops and the mob to straighten you out. Anarcho-tyranny is here–and most people love it.

 
• Category: Culture/Society, Ideology • Tags: Coronavirus, Health, Polling, Science 
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  1. If Biden wins, the phony Covid emergency and the riots will be deemed permanent. This is how the progressive left prefers to govern, through street violence and arbitrary emergency powers; this is the perfect opportunity for them. Anybody who thinks otherwise is deeply, sadly, frighteningly wrong.

  2. The mask crap is not going away anytime soon, and for some percentage of the population, it never will. On my morning walk today on our nice wide neighborhood street, a woman coming the opposite direction, on the other side of the road, paused to put on her mask before we passed. These people are insane.

    • Agree: TTSSYF, LondonBob
    • Replies: @Whitney
    @usNthem

    Every time I see a white person wearing a mask on the street I think you are lost to me and your people forever

  3. Just what I thought. This is the perfect opportunity – an “emergency” that can be prolonged indefinitely, which gives them absolute power. Why would winning an election make them give that up? On the contrary, it will give them license to go even further.

  4. Of course, the populous should be sceptical of the Government – this is part of the reason the Hajnal Line countries are less corrupt than the smarter South Korea and Japan.

    But what the people truly do want (and rightly so) is a Government they can trust, a Gov’t that in a crisis won’t lie to you – a Gov’t that if it says “you must wear a mask”, you know they are right.
    Hence, it should not surprise anyone old Americans’ score in this: they came from a different America, an America which was a real country.

    • Agree: V. K. Ovelund
  5. It’s those who oppose mask-wearing so vociferously are the dangerous ones. One of them threatened to shoot a store owner and shot a cop. All because he doesn’t want to wear a mask, like people did in 1918.

    • Agree: Zimriel
    • Replies: @Zimriel
    @obwandiyag

    There's a constant drumbeat from the paranoid wing of the Right: masks don't work, don't vaccinate [when available, even when DJT promotes it!], don't distance. They offer no way out of their trap. It's the same Kafka / Heller as we see on the Left about: coal pollutes, nuclear is unsafe, gas is climate-changing. And just as dishonest.
    With the Left, their aim is clear: they want proles and olds to freeze in the dark.
    I am convinced the Right is the same about CoVID. They want this thing to spread among proles and olds, to lower the population. Smarter Rightists are wearing the mask and taking precautions - they just pretend otherwise, loudly. Hence why the emotive appeals ('mask up, miscreant').
    It's eugenics and euthanasia the hard way.
    Shame to see Epigone join in.

  6. There is an increasingly common take on the jaded right that upon Biden’s swearing in next January, all the hysteria and top-down dictates concerning COVID will evaporate like the morning dew.

    It won’t. The COVID hysteria is happening throughout the Anglosphere, regardless of which parties are in power. The hysteria is driven by scared politicians who don’t know how to react to the situation with anything other than panic. Whether the government is ostensibly a leftist 0r a rightist government makes no difference. All western politicians are equally cynical, equally incompetent and equally scared.

    I don’t subscribe to the “COVID is a hoax” or the “it’s just the flu bro” theories, but all western governments have responded with a mixture of incompetence and totally excessive blind panic.

    COVID hysteria will be with us for another couple of years.

  7. Curious.

    How come postgrads are more likely than oldsters (by a dozen points!)?

    Got an 82 year old neighbor who still works and hasn’t missed a day since the mask crap began. He ain’t worried or sick.

    What’s the hi-IQ crowd message here? Or are they once again proving how correct Orwell was when he said some things are so stupid you have to be a university graduate to believe it?

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Franz


    How come postgrads are more likely than oldsters (by a dozen points!)?
     
    Postgrads doesn't necessarily mean people with postgraduate degrees in astrophysics. It mostly means people with postgraduate degrees in gender studies or media studies or other nonsense degrees.

    Oldsters may not have postgrad degrees but they did receive an actual education.
    , @anon
    @Franz

    How come postgrads are more likely than oldsters (by a dozen points!)?

    Joe Biden's wife has a PhD. It's in Education, but she still insists on being called "Doctor". A fair number of those are handed out every year. Ditto English and other subjects. I once met a "Doctor" who had a PhD in technical writing.

    I also know multiple professional people with Master's degrees in things like Education, Counseling, Social Work, and so forth. Actual rigorous post-grads are a minority as far as I can tell.

    Replies: @Realist, @TomSchmidt

    , @V. K. Ovelund
    @Franz


    Curious.

    How come postgrads are more likely than oldsters (by a dozen points!)?
     

    A postgrad myself, I have never quite understood this. Is it just postgraduate vanity?

    The thing is, the majority of the postgrads I know (and I know plenty) are not especially vain—or else I am so unwittingly vain, myself, that I can no longer tell the difference.

    Yet almost every single time I see one of these polls in which advanced degrees correlate different attitudes than high-school diplomas do, my own attitudes track the high-school diplomas. I don't get it.

    I did not grow up in a working-class home. I did not marry into a working-class family. My kin are more likely to sign a paycheck than to receive one. I have spoken American English with a standard U.S.-business/Broadway-stage accent all my life and have only one relative with a tattoo. My war-veteran forebears were U.S. officers and nothing in my own appearance or bearing suggests otherwise as far as I know. Except that I am a bit of an underachiever compared to most of the family, I should be a nearly perfect candidate today to hold progressive elite attitudes, but I fail to grasp the point.

    If anyone here can explain it to me, I would be interested.

    Replies: @A123, @Vergissmeinnicht, @Intelligent Dasein, @Franz, @iffen

    , @Charlotte
    @Franz

    In addition to the other factors mentioned by commenters, a lot of people with postgraduate degrees are progressives, or want to be seen as such by their friends and family. Objecting to mask wearing has become something of a conservative phenomenon; the sort of thing a Deplorable would do. Don’t underestimate the extent to which masks have become political theater.

    Replies: @Franz

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @Franz

    They're less harmed from the fallout, particularly the economic fallout, than people of more modest means and abilities are.

  8. @Franz
    Curious.

    How come postgrads are more likely than oldsters (by a dozen points!)?

    Got an 82 year old neighbor who still works and hasn't missed a day since the mask crap began. He ain't worried or sick.

    What's the hi-IQ crowd message here? Or are they once again proving how correct Orwell was when he said some things are so stupid you have to be a university graduate to believe it?

    Replies: @dfordoom, @anon, @V. K. Ovelund, @Charlotte, @Audacious Epigone

    How come postgrads are more likely than oldsters (by a dozen points!)?

    Postgrads doesn’t necessarily mean people with postgraduate degrees in astrophysics. It mostly means people with postgraduate degrees in gender studies or media studies or other nonsense degrees.

    Oldsters may not have postgrad degrees but they did receive an actual education.

  9. anon[463] • Disclaimer says:
    @Franz
    Curious.

    How come postgrads are more likely than oldsters (by a dozen points!)?

    Got an 82 year old neighbor who still works and hasn't missed a day since the mask crap began. He ain't worried or sick.

    What's the hi-IQ crowd message here? Or are they once again proving how correct Orwell was when he said some things are so stupid you have to be a university graduate to believe it?

    Replies: @dfordoom, @anon, @V. K. Ovelund, @Charlotte, @Audacious Epigone

    How come postgrads are more likely than oldsters (by a dozen points!)?

    Joe Biden’s wife has a PhD. It’s in Education, but she still insists on being called “Doctor”. A fair number of those are handed out every year. Ditto English and other subjects. I once met a “Doctor” who had a PhD in technical writing.

    I also know multiple professional people with Master’s degrees in things like Education, Counseling, Social Work, and so forth. Actual rigorous post-grads are a minority as far as I can tell.

    • Replies: @Realist
    @anon


    Actual rigorous post-grads are a minority as far as I can tell.
     
    Not all PhD...are equal.
    , @TomSchmidt
    @anon

    Is it a PhD or an EdD? I made the mistake once of calling a PhD in Education an EdD; she let me know in no uncertain terms that she was a PhD. The latter is entitled to be called doctor (from Latin, docere, to teach), but they're not the most respected people deserving of that title.

  10. I am surprised the business lobby isn’t more vocal protesting these measures. Definitely here there is a segment of the population that was hysterical about Brexit, Trump and now Covid, definitely a mental thing. Here the government messed up big time and perseveres with these ludicrous restrictions to cover up their failures.

    Good polls for Trump by Trafalgar.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @LondonBob

    We need mass replacement of American workers with h1b Indians, or else Corporarion XYZ will just have to shut down!

    A total economic shutdown is just fine though apparently.

    , @Alexander Turok
    @LondonBob

    Clevons tend to be attracted to something-for-nothing solutions. If one man tells the Clevon he has two choices, both of which are gonna be painful, and another man says there's a something-for-nothing solution, he's gonna follow the second man. He wonders why all those people are undergoing painful, expensive surgeries for cancer when you can get a painless cancer cure on the internet for 20$.

    Business owners tend to be smart, at least relatively. So they see two painful tradeoffs, more lockdown or more spread. While there are a few intelligent critics of the lockdowns who make the case that the costs of the former exceed the latter, for the most part the critics are Clevons who want to get something for nothing. Those people tend to fail when they go into business.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwZ0ZUy7P3E

  11. I’ll be the devil’s advocate here and support masks/lockdowns. China got on top of THEIR virus fast. They did so by really locking down Wuhan. Since the gestation period of their virus was 10-14 days and it was mostly contained in Wuhan they are now basically fighting the blowback from their conscious decision to allow their virus to infect the rest of the world.

    The point is, with a new infectious disease of unknown lethality on the loose it is better to suffer a short sharp disruption of life and get it under control than to allow the virus to spread throughout the country and endure months or years of restrictions. Business can endure a few weeks under lockdown conditions but not a long pandemic. Airlines, hotels, restaurants, hair salons and so much else will have been bankrupted by the time we get this virus under control ( if we ever do).

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @unit472

    I hope the Devil doesn't pay you big money in retainer fees, Unit-472, or he's not getting his money out of it.


    ... than to allow the virus to spread throughout the country and endure months or years of restrictions.
     
    These 2 things don't have to go together. They shouldn't, in fact. The LOCKDOWNS and other totalitarian measures have just been a way for governments on all levels in America to gain lots of new power (Spoiler alert: They don't give it back without a fight.)

    Absolutely NONE of it was necessary. Just as the case with DforDoom, I don't think the Kung Flu was a hoax, as in made up. I think the response to it throughout most of the world has been not a hoax, but a SCAM of immense proportions. It's amazing what countries full of cowed men and run as though nothing but menopausal women are in charge will put up with in the name of safety from a virus that has not been worse than a typical bad flu year.

    This is not the Black Plague 2.0.

    Replies: @unit472, @dfordoom

    , @Realist
    @unit472

    Unit472 has been found defective and is being decommissioned.

    Replies: @unit472

    , @Cloudbuster
    @unit472

    I am extraordinarily skeptical that China's actual Wuhan Flu death numbers are anywhere near as low as they are claiming. China has zero transparency and a reputation for blatant willingness to lie.

    Replies: @Ugetit

    , @Diversity Heretic
    @unit472

    The mathematical models for diseases spreading through a population were first developed in the 1840s by William Farr, a British medical statistician and remain valid today. (And Farr thought diseases were caused by miasmas, not organisms; the germ theory of disease,pioneered by Robert Koch and Louis Pasteur had yet to be accepted.) There is simply no way that an epidemic or a pandemic can last years; hysteria in trying to half the perfectly natural transmission of a not-so-dangerous virus can be indefinite.

    , @dfordoom
    @unit472


    The point is, with a new infectious disease of unknown lethality on the loose it is better to suffer a short sharp disruption of life and get it under control than to allow the virus to spread throughout the country and endure months or years of restrictions. Business can endure a few weeks under lockdown conditions but not a long pandemic. Airlines, hotels, restaurants, hair salons and so much else will have been bankrupted by the time we get this virus under control ( if we ever do).
     
    I tend to agree. The biggest failure of western governments was that they acted much too slowly, and at first half-heartedly. A short sharp lockdown and we could have avoided all this misery. But idiots like Trump kept insisting that there was no problem. When you're not sure how serious a virus is going to turn out to be, stomp it hard and fast.

    Replies: @anon, @Lars Porsena, @Chrisnonymous

    , @Rosie
    @unit472


    Airlines, hotels, restaurants, hair salons and so much else will have been bankrupted by the time we get this virus under control ( if we ever do).
     
    My theory is that special interests are to blame. Lockdown should have been swift and absolute, but special interests (being more aware and organized) dictated the initial response, massively spreading and prolonging the pain, well before the public even knew there was a serious debate going on.

    In particular, I blame airlines, professional sports, and I don't know who else. They may come to regret their short-sightedness and tunnel vision.

    Or, it could all be a great big big hoax. There is really nothing I would put past these people.

    Replies: @dfordoom

  12. anonymous[105] • Disclaimer says:

    The riots and unrest aren’t going away if Biden wins. That is an opinion commonly expressed by many people including my friends but they are wrong.

    The media and the left (I know, redundant) will not be able to put back the toothpaste they’ve squeezed out of the tube this time. The pussy hats four years ago and all of that were all fun and games, but now they’ve crossed a major Rubicon. How do you go from saying things like “America is worse than Nazi Germany” (Jemele Hill at the Atlantic) to ‘Just kidding, never mind, everyone go back to work and school and behave normally now.’

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  13. No mask for Pelosi:

    San Fran Salon Owner Erica Kious Responds to Pelosi Claim of a “Set Up”:

    Regards, onebornfree

  14. Now this is high-quality hyperbole:

    Anarcho-tyranny is here–and most people love it.

    Alexandre Dumas could hardly have written it better.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    @V. K. Ovelund

    Where's the hyperbole?

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

  15. @Franz
    Curious.

    How come postgrads are more likely than oldsters (by a dozen points!)?

    Got an 82 year old neighbor who still works and hasn't missed a day since the mask crap began. He ain't worried or sick.

    What's the hi-IQ crowd message here? Or are they once again proving how correct Orwell was when he said some things are so stupid you have to be a university graduate to believe it?

    Replies: @dfordoom, @anon, @V. K. Ovelund, @Charlotte, @Audacious Epigone

    Curious.

    How come postgrads are more likely than oldsters (by a dozen points!)?

    A postgrad myself, I have never quite understood this. Is it just postgraduate vanity?

    The thing is, the majority of the postgrads I know (and I know plenty) are not especially vain—or else I am so unwittingly vain, myself, that I can no longer tell the difference.

    Yet almost every single time I see one of these polls in which advanced degrees correlate different attitudes than high-school diplomas do, my own attitudes track the high-school diplomas. I don’t get it.

    I did not grow up in a working-class home. I did not marry into a working-class family. My kin are more likely to sign a paycheck than to receive one. I have spoken American English with a standard U.S.-business/Broadway-stage accent all my life and have only one relative with a tattoo. My war-veteran forebears were U.S. officers and nothing in my own appearance or bearing suggests otherwise as far as I know. Except that I am a bit of an underachiever compared to most of the family, I should be a nearly perfect candidate today to hold progressive elite attitudes, but I fail to grasp the point.

    If anyone here can explain it to me, I would be interested.

    • Replies: @A123
    @V. K. Ovelund


    Yet almost every single time I see one of these polls in which advanced degrees correlate different attitudes than high-school diplomas do, my own attitudes track the high-school diplomas. I don’t get it.
     
    Advanced degrees come in three broad categories:

    -1- STEM degrees from top programs are geared to scientific productivity. STEM degrees from mid-tier programs and a significant number of students from top-tier business programs are geared to work place productivity. These are people who actually "do things", thus they have realistic views that align with Main Street.

    -2- There is of course another group of top-tier business graduates that choose to join Investment Banking for maximum personal gains. They obviously align with Wall Street.

    -3- Lesser business degrees and all grievance studies degrees are achieved by conformist obedience to professor dogma. These degrees provide few real world skills, leading holders to overestimate their capability. They are easy prey for SJW Globalism activist theology.

    Sadly, #3 is the largest group of advanced degree holders.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

    , @Vergissmeinnicht
    @V. K. Ovelund

    I don't know the reason fully (no-one does), but here's what I think could be part of the answer: 'progressive' attitudes don't come naturally to people, they must be inculcated (inculcation happens at the universities), hence no wonder people with only HS (or less) have more common-sense.

    , @Intelligent Dasein
    @V. K. Ovelund


    The thing is, the majority of the postgrads I know (and I know plenty) are not especially vain—or else I am so unwittingly vain, myself, that I can no longer tell the difference...

    ...If anyone here can explain it to me, I would be interested.
     
    Interrupting the thread in order to ask strangers on the internet to speculate about why your precious mental state is the way that it is, does seem a bit "unwittingly vain," if you don't mind me saying so. Maybe I don't give a shit. Maybe I came to this thread to talk about masks and Covid-19, as the title would suggest. Besides which, any putative answer would have to assume that your friends' wokeness and your lack of wokeness has a simple, explicable cause that can be set out in a short blog comment. I don't believe that is the case at all.

    However, speaking as a friend, I will tell you the general direction along which the answer lies: You are insensible to academic authority; that is why you got fired.

    And to supplement, I will only tell you again the same thing I told you once before. You need to do something with the gifts and opportunities you've been given. You don't need the strangers here to stroke your ego and tell you how tough and independent you are. You've already been predestined for toughness by the circumstances of your life. If God did not know you could handle it, He would not have let it befall you. So buck up, buttercup, and just do it. You can't soar with the eagles if you're fluttering around with the chickens on this blog.

    Of, and break off your love affair with dfordoom. He is an atheist Australian Corvinus 2.0 troll who contradicts everything not for knowledge's sake but just to be a peckerhead.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @iffen

    , @Franz
    @V. K. Ovelund


    A postgrad myself, I have never quite understood this. Is it just postgraduate vanity?
     
    I think dfordoom and anon above covered it well because I honestly had not thought of how "varied" academic standards really are. When I was in the navy and my work took me to the UK, a staff officer who'd earned a degree having "read at Oxford" for four years. I didn't know what that meant, but it seems some people can just read and become an expert on subject a, b, or c and get a sheepskin for it. He read history, and had entire scads of military history in his head, including technical information. Trouble is, I've known non-college war buffs who were just as good and had no degree to show for it.

    Then there was Bill Cosby who got a doctorate for his "work" creating Fat Albert for the cartoons.

    I expect there are some real howlers in the creative degree biz. Tranny History? Improvised Riot Tactics from 1789 to the Present? The possibilities are endless.

    Right, vanity plus some high-sounding degrees add up to knowing how to bullshit.

    , @iffen
    @V. K. Ovelund

    If anyone here can explain it to me, I would be interested.

    Maybe you are just "smarter" than the average bear.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

  16. I never would have expected numbers that high. It is a simple, straightforward question too, with no leeway for interpretation, so this is very sad. I’ve always supported the American people as opposed to supporting the Feral Gov’t (many people confuse the two), but maybe it’s time to quit caring about em as a whole.

    There aren’t many men of principle anymore, much less women (never were many of the latter – it’s not their thing). It’s makes me wonder when I read insults like “muh Constitution” how the writers cannot know how this always turns out. Almost 2 decades ago the Security Theater of the TSA cranked up, and now we have the Heathcare Theater of the CDC. Do you think either one will be ended? Never – your Authoritahs know what’s best for you, the way all you people on those bars in the graph act.

    This is truly a nation of pussies, although I’ll give Australia the # 1 spot. (Hello, DforDoom, enjoying this?) Peak Stupidity, having some perspective, has railed on this madness since March. The nation had an intermission in the Infotainment Panic-Fest with the riots, but now Season 2 has been airing. The big change is from “this Plague can live on doorknobs for 8 1/2 weeks!” to “it can spread through farts now! Put a mask on it!”

    Now, with even the CDC admitting that only 6% of the deaths of people WITH COVID-19 were FROM that virus ALONE, (see “Vindication, Bitchez!”), how are governments going to walk this back. They won’t. They might even double down, just to show who’s boss.

    Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4*, Part 5, Part 6, Part 7, Part 8, Part 9, and Part 10. (Almost all are about the wearing of face masks, the most obvious signal of one’s stupidity.)

    ,

    * Part 4 NSFW unless you work from home and your wife doesn’t.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Achmed E. Newman


    This is truly a nation of pussies, although I’ll give Australia the # 1 spot. (Hello, DforDoom, enjoying this?)
     
    Australia is a snivelling, grovelling, pathetic lapdog of the US. It makes me ashamed to be Australian.

    And the hysterical sinophobia in Australia today makes me even more ashamed.

    Replies: @Charles Pewitt

    , @MBlanc46
    @Achmed E. Newman

    It is indeed a sad commentary on the state of the American nation.

  17. @unit472
    I'll be the devil's advocate here and support masks/lockdowns. China got on top of THEIR virus fast. They did so by really locking down Wuhan. Since the gestation period of their virus was 10-14 days and it was mostly contained in Wuhan they are now basically fighting the blowback from their conscious decision to allow their virus to infect the rest of the world.

    The point is, with a new infectious disease of unknown lethality on the loose it is better to suffer a short sharp disruption of life and get it under control than to allow the virus to spread throughout the country and endure months or years of restrictions. Business can endure a few weeks under lockdown conditions but not a long pandemic. Airlines, hotels, restaurants, hair salons and so much else will have been bankrupted by the time we get this virus under control ( if we ever do).

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Realist, @Cloudbuster, @Diversity Heretic, @dfordoom, @Rosie

    I hope the Devil doesn’t pay you big money in retainer fees, Unit-472, or he’s not getting his money out of it.

    … than to allow the virus to spread throughout the country and endure months or years of restrictions.

    These 2 things don’t have to go together. They shouldn’t, in fact. The LOCKDOWNS and other totalitarian measures have just been a way for governments on all levels in America to gain lots of new power (Spoiler alert: They don’t give it back without a fight.)

    Absolutely NONE of it was necessary. Just as the case with DforDoom, I don’t think the Kung Flu was a hoax, as in made up. I think the response to it throughout most of the world has been not a hoax, but a SCAM of immense proportions. It’s amazing what countries full of cowed men and run as though nothing but menopausal women are in charge will put up with in the name of safety from a virus that has not been worse than a typical bad flu year.

    This is not the Black Plague 2.0.

    • Replies: @unit472
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The problem with your reply is that it is entirely political and has nothing to do with the medical reality of the virus. When did you determine the virus was not Black Plague 2.0? My guess was it was at some point AFTER China locked down Wuhan. Why did they lock down Wuhan because they KNEW the virus had escaped from their bio lab into their own population. That's also the reason they let planes fly out of China to the rest of the world. If they had unleashed Black Plague 2.0 they were going to make sure the rest of the world got infected too.

    My point, which is, evidently, to0 acute for you to grasp is that once a virus has spread widely it is almost impossible to get it back into the bottle without strick lockdowns and quarantines. I went through this first hand back in 1980 when AIDS broke out in San Francisco. The medical consensus was that infection vectors needed to be shut down and contact tracing done. The political consensus was that would stigmatize male homosexuals so the virus ( although we didn't know it was a virus at first) so the gay bars and bath houses stayed open and the disease spread like wildfire all over the US.

    If your position on Covid is different than your position on AIDS it is YOU who is applying political criterion to a medical issue not I.

    Replies: @Lucius Somesuch, @Adam Smith, @Achmed E. Newman, @Insouciant

    , @dfordoom
    @Achmed E. Newman


    This is not the Black Plague 2.0.
     
    I agree on that. But at the beginning it looked pretty serious. And even if it's not the Black Plague we don't need another virus becoming endemic. The responsible things for governments to do in that case is to eliminate the damned virus. Not behave like a clown the way politicians like Trump behaved.

    If we get hit with another virus that turns out to be really serious then we're going to be royally screwed. We now know that western governments are incapable of responding to a crisis. We also know that the US government is even more incompetent than the average western government so if there's a serious virus then America will infect the whole damned world.

    A not very serious virus has taken down the global economy. Just imagine what a serious virus would do.

    And there was no excuse for western governments such as the US Government, which had plenty of warning.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  18. @V. K. Ovelund
    @Franz


    Curious.

    How come postgrads are more likely than oldsters (by a dozen points!)?
     

    A postgrad myself, I have never quite understood this. Is it just postgraduate vanity?

    The thing is, the majority of the postgrads I know (and I know plenty) are not especially vain—or else I am so unwittingly vain, myself, that I can no longer tell the difference.

    Yet almost every single time I see one of these polls in which advanced degrees correlate different attitudes than high-school diplomas do, my own attitudes track the high-school diplomas. I don't get it.

    I did not grow up in a working-class home. I did not marry into a working-class family. My kin are more likely to sign a paycheck than to receive one. I have spoken American English with a standard U.S.-business/Broadway-stage accent all my life and have only one relative with a tattoo. My war-veteran forebears were U.S. officers and nothing in my own appearance or bearing suggests otherwise as far as I know. Except that I am a bit of an underachiever compared to most of the family, I should be a nearly perfect candidate today to hold progressive elite attitudes, but I fail to grasp the point.

    If anyone here can explain it to me, I would be interested.

    Replies: @A123, @Vergissmeinnicht, @Intelligent Dasein, @Franz, @iffen

    Yet almost every single time I see one of these polls in which advanced degrees correlate different attitudes than high-school diplomas do, my own attitudes track the high-school diplomas. I don’t get it.

    Advanced degrees come in three broad categories:

    -1- STEM degrees from top programs are geared to scientific productivity. STEM degrees from mid-tier programs and a significant number of students from top-tier business programs are geared to work place productivity. These are people who actually “do things”, thus they have realistic views that align with Main Street.

    -2- There is of course another group of top-tier business graduates that choose to join Investment Banking for maximum personal gains. They obviously align with Wall Street.

    -3- Lesser business degrees and all grievance studies degrees are achieved by conformist obedience to professor dogma. These degrees provide few real world skills, leading holders to overestimate their capability. They are easy prey for SJW Globalism activist theology.

    Sadly, #3 is the largest group of advanced degree holders.

    PEACE 😇

    • Agree: Realist
    • Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @A123

    I wrote more about myself in the earlier comment than is usually polite, but should nevertheless probably respond to your taxonomy by admitting that this category includes me:


    ... STEM degrees from mid-tier programs ...
     
    Which category includes you, please, if you care to tell?

    It sounds as though your story might be interesting. If so, then, without asking for personally identifying details (you should please feel free to randomize a bit to frustrate doxxers), I would be interested to read.

    Replies: @A123

  19. Refraining from burning down buildings and assaulting people in the street is not mandatory, but breathing in your stagnant midday breath with a cloth strapped across your face is.

    Your ancestors were forced to fight long and bloody wars for … well, I was gonna say “your freedom” but hell, it was usually pointless. You whine about being forced to wear a mask. You are GAY!

  20. @V. K. Ovelund
    @Franz


    Curious.

    How come postgrads are more likely than oldsters (by a dozen points!)?
     

    A postgrad myself, I have never quite understood this. Is it just postgraduate vanity?

    The thing is, the majority of the postgrads I know (and I know plenty) are not especially vain—or else I am so unwittingly vain, myself, that I can no longer tell the difference.

    Yet almost every single time I see one of these polls in which advanced degrees correlate different attitudes than high-school diplomas do, my own attitudes track the high-school diplomas. I don't get it.

    I did not grow up in a working-class home. I did not marry into a working-class family. My kin are more likely to sign a paycheck than to receive one. I have spoken American English with a standard U.S.-business/Broadway-stage accent all my life and have only one relative with a tattoo. My war-veteran forebears were U.S. officers and nothing in my own appearance or bearing suggests otherwise as far as I know. Except that I am a bit of an underachiever compared to most of the family, I should be a nearly perfect candidate today to hold progressive elite attitudes, but I fail to grasp the point.

    If anyone here can explain it to me, I would be interested.

    Replies: @A123, @Vergissmeinnicht, @Intelligent Dasein, @Franz, @iffen

    I don’t know the reason fully (no-one does), but here’s what I think could be part of the answer: ‘progressive’ attitudes don’t come naturally to people, they must be inculcated (inculcation happens at the universities), hence no wonder people with only HS (or less) have more common-sense.

    • Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
  21. @V. K. Ovelund
    Now this is high-quality hyperbole:

    Anarcho-tyranny is here–and most people love it.
     
    Alexandre Dumas could hardly have written it better.

    Replies: @Cloudbuster

    Where’s the hyperbole?

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @Cloudbuster

    The blogger wrote:


    Anarcho-tyranny is here–and most people love it.
     
    I responded:

    Now this is high-quality hyperbole.
     
    You replied:

    Where’s the hyperbole?
     
    Heh. You may have a point.
  22. Funny, when you look back at how authorities dealt with the deadly flu epidemic of 1918-19, you find that they also ordered citizens to wear face masks and “social distance”. At first they simply pretended, like Trump, that the infection would “burn itself out” without intervention. As cases mounted, brought to every city by soldiers returning from the Great War, the hospitals became overwhelmed and familiar steps were taken. Theaters and dance halls were closed, large public gatherings were banned, and then the masks and distancing were imposed, then schools and restaurants closed, there was a minor spike when “reopening” was done prematurely, but in time the flu passed. Rival politicians then played the blame game for personal advantage, just as new.

    The website http://www.influenzaarchive.org is a good source of data on the 1918-9 flu and how it was dealt with

    We are the laughingstock of the world, imagining that simple courtesy toward other members of our communities is some sinister form of slavery. Maybe legalizing marijuana is a bad idea after all: we seem to have plenty of paranoids already.

    • Agree: Alexander Turok
    • Replies: @Ugetit
    @Observator


    ...we seem to have plenty of paranoids already.
     
    What's that you were preaching about simple courtesy in your prior paragraph?
  23. @obwandiyag
    It's those who oppose mask-wearing so vociferously are the dangerous ones. One of them threatened to shoot a store owner and shot a cop. All because he doesn't want to wear a mask, like people did in 1918.

    Replies: @Zimriel

    There’s a constant drumbeat from the paranoid wing of the Right: masks don’t work, don’t vaccinate [when available, even when DJT promotes it!], don’t distance. They offer no way out of their trap. It’s the same Kafka / Heller as we see on the Left about: coal pollutes, nuclear is unsafe, gas is climate-changing. And just as dishonest.
    With the Left, their aim is clear: they want proles and olds to freeze in the dark.
    I am convinced the Right is the same about CoVID. They want this thing to spread among proles and olds, to lower the population. Smarter Rightists are wearing the mask and taking precautions – they just pretend otherwise, loudly. Hence why the emotive appeals (‘mask up, miscreant’).
    It’s eugenics and euthanasia the hard way.
    Shame to see Epigone join in.

    • Troll: usNthem
  24. The Republicans…the group with the least favorability to mandatory mask wearing…missed majority favorability by two percent.

    An overwhelming majority of Americans do not merely condone and want to see encouraged the use of masks, they want it made and kept mandatory. Refraining from burning down buildings and assaulting people in the street is not mandatory, but breathing in your stagnant midday breath with a cloth strapped across your face is. Got it? For those who don’t, we have the cops and the mob to straighten you out. Anarcho-tyranny is here–and most people love it.

    This country is full of fucking idiots.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @Realist


    This country is full of fucking idiots.
     
    I'll go ahead and expand that to the entire Western world, save Sweden.
  25. @unit472
    I'll be the devil's advocate here and support masks/lockdowns. China got on top of THEIR virus fast. They did so by really locking down Wuhan. Since the gestation period of their virus was 10-14 days and it was mostly contained in Wuhan they are now basically fighting the blowback from their conscious decision to allow their virus to infect the rest of the world.

    The point is, with a new infectious disease of unknown lethality on the loose it is better to suffer a short sharp disruption of life and get it under control than to allow the virus to spread throughout the country and endure months or years of restrictions. Business can endure a few weeks under lockdown conditions but not a long pandemic. Airlines, hotels, restaurants, hair salons and so much else will have been bankrupted by the time we get this virus under control ( if we ever do).

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Realist, @Cloudbuster, @Diversity Heretic, @dfordoom, @Rosie

    Unit472 has been found defective and is being decommissioned.

    • Replies: @unit472
    @Realist

    If that is the best you can come up with I suggest you exchange your keyboard for a box of crayons.

  26. @anon
    @Franz

    How come postgrads are more likely than oldsters (by a dozen points!)?

    Joe Biden's wife has a PhD. It's in Education, but she still insists on being called "Doctor". A fair number of those are handed out every year. Ditto English and other subjects. I once met a "Doctor" who had a PhD in technical writing.

    I also know multiple professional people with Master's degrees in things like Education, Counseling, Social Work, and so forth. Actual rigorous post-grads are a minority as far as I can tell.

    Replies: @Realist, @TomSchmidt

    Actual rigorous post-grads are a minority as far as I can tell.

    Not all PhD…are equal.

  27. @Cloudbuster
    @V. K. Ovelund

    Where's the hyperbole?

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

    The blogger wrote:

    Anarcho-tyranny is here–and most people love it.

    I responded:

    Now this is high-quality hyperbole.

    You replied:

    Where’s the hyperbole?

    Heh. You may have a point.

  28. @Achmed E. Newman
    @unit472

    I hope the Devil doesn't pay you big money in retainer fees, Unit-472, or he's not getting his money out of it.


    ... than to allow the virus to spread throughout the country and endure months or years of restrictions.
     
    These 2 things don't have to go together. They shouldn't, in fact. The LOCKDOWNS and other totalitarian measures have just been a way for governments on all levels in America to gain lots of new power (Spoiler alert: They don't give it back without a fight.)

    Absolutely NONE of it was necessary. Just as the case with DforDoom, I don't think the Kung Flu was a hoax, as in made up. I think the response to it throughout most of the world has been not a hoax, but a SCAM of immense proportions. It's amazing what countries full of cowed men and run as though nothing but menopausal women are in charge will put up with in the name of safety from a virus that has not been worse than a typical bad flu year.

    This is not the Black Plague 2.0.

    Replies: @unit472, @dfordoom

    The problem with your reply is that it is entirely political and has nothing to do with the medical reality of the virus. When did you determine the virus was not Black Plague 2.0? My guess was it was at some point AFTER China locked down Wuhan. Why did they lock down Wuhan because they KNEW the virus had escaped from their bio lab into their own population. That’s also the reason they let planes fly out of China to the rest of the world. If they had unleashed Black Plague 2.0 they were going to make sure the rest of the world got infected too.

    My point, which is, evidently, to0 acute for you to grasp is that once a virus has spread widely it is almost impossible to get it back into the bottle without strick lockdowns and quarantines. I went through this first hand back in 1980 when AIDS broke out in San Francisco. The medical consensus was that infection vectors needed to be shut down and contact tracing done. The political consensus was that would stigmatize male homosexuals so the virus ( although we didn’t know it was a virus at first) so the gay bars and bath houses stayed open and the disease spread like wildfire all over the US.

    If your position on Covid is different than your position on AIDS it is YOU who is applying political criterion to a medical issue not I.

    • Agree: Zimriel
    • Replies: @Lucius Somesuch
    @unit472

    The problem with your replies, unit472, is that I can't tell what tense you're composing in. You seem at times to admit that while this might have been a legitimate concern at the beginning of the year, events have proven governments to have been (albeit innocently, by your thesis) in error; but then you also seem to suggest at times that we are somehow still awaiting the verdict on whether Covid-19 might still turn out to be Black Death 2.0 after all. Are you indeed implying that there is still doubt? Do you worry that Covid-19 is finally going to live up to its initial hype and wipe out 2 million Americans, or 20? If not, then you should pitch your appeal for leniency to the erring authorities a bit more clearly. Personally I hold them gravely accountable. Certainly I hold them to have peddled tremendous falsehoods. I'm not scandalized if you wish to appeal for mercy on the grounds that you think they were simply panicking in the face of an unknown and scary-looking threat. But the ship has sailed on Covid-19 being a terror to the able-bodied adult or youngling. Or do you deny this too?

    , @Adam Smith
    @unit472


    I went through this first hand back in 1980 when AIDS broke out in San Francisco.
     
    Refrain from intravenous drug use and bath house sodomy and you won't catch the HIV.

    https://playcoronaworld.com/

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @unit472

    Do you think this virus will just stay bottled up and gone, from all of China (even with 2-week quarantine strictly-controlled travel) and anywhere that hard-core procedure are or have been in place? Viruses don't work like that. They will get to everyone, but the problem is in how potent a mutation. As my specialist friend heard from his I.D. (Infectious Disease) doctor friend months ago, "hey do you know anyone who's not gotten the common cold?"

    What would have happened to the AIDS virus if all the homos in the world had been LOCKED down, without their "buddies"? What would have happened to the virus - would it have gone from the face of the earth? (BTW, I agree that the many years of that narrative that AIDS can hit anyone was a great disservice to anyone who likes getting laid.)

    The most virulent strains are being put off in some place into the future. I don't even know if they will come out ahead on ACTUAL deaths FROM this COVID-19 at all. (Of course, for governments it's all about incentives in how you log deaths. Need to get the numbers down? Sure, let's get the insurance companies to remove the co-pay and deductible waivers they've had for the Trump Administration the last 6 months. What else do ya' need?)

    As commenter Digital Samizdat wrote: "If this were the Black Plague, we wouldn't be arguing if this were the Black Plague or not." Excellent way to put it. I don't even know a single soul who's gotten this thing for sure, I mean gotten actually sick, much less anyone who has died from it. I know nobody who knows anyone who's died from it.

    The amount of perspective one gains in life and the ability to not go into hysterics based on 6 months of 24/7 Infotainment is not a political effort. It's just being a responsible man.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Adam Smith, @Whitney

    , @Insouciant
    @unit472


    I went through this first hand back in 1980 when AIDS broke out in San Francisco. The medical consensus was that infection vectors needed to be shut down and contact tracing done. The political consensus was that would stigmatize male homosexuals so the virus ( although we didn’t know it was a virus at first) so the gay bars and bath houses stayed open and the disease spread like wildfire all over the US.
     
    It is precisely AIDS / gay issues that convince me masks - social distancing is not disease control but mind control.

    From mid-December 2019 to mid-April 2020 billboards in numerous places in a mid-sized Midwest city encouraged young Black males posed under a rainbow umbrella to "Love Passionately" -- take Gilead's PrEP pills first, you'll be fine.
    You can be as reckless as you want, you won't get AIDS if you take Remdesivir er Truveda or any of the dozen-or-so AIDS drugs Gilead sells. Further more, the pills are free, tho must be monitored by physician, but taxpayers will pay for your costly and repeated doctor visits.

    I should wear a mask "not to protect me but to protect YOU" from a disease I do not have, but it is OK for globohomos to engage in risky behavior because taxpayers will subsidize their risky behavior.

    [Sidebar: Trip to cemetery the other day. Placards all over the cemetery enjoining visitors to Social Distance. No kidding.]
  29. @A123
    @V. K. Ovelund


    Yet almost every single time I see one of these polls in which advanced degrees correlate different attitudes than high-school diplomas do, my own attitudes track the high-school diplomas. I don’t get it.
     
    Advanced degrees come in three broad categories:

    -1- STEM degrees from top programs are geared to scientific productivity. STEM degrees from mid-tier programs and a significant number of students from top-tier business programs are geared to work place productivity. These are people who actually "do things", thus they have realistic views that align with Main Street.

    -2- There is of course another group of top-tier business graduates that choose to join Investment Banking for maximum personal gains. They obviously align with Wall Street.

    -3- Lesser business degrees and all grievance studies degrees are achieved by conformist obedience to professor dogma. These degrees provide few real world skills, leading holders to overestimate their capability. They are easy prey for SJW Globalism activist theology.

    Sadly, #3 is the largest group of advanced degree holders.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

    I wrote more about myself in the earlier comment than is usually polite, but should nevertheless probably respond to your taxonomy by admitting that this category includes me:

    … STEM degrees from mid-tier programs …

    Which category includes you, please, if you care to tell?

    It sounds as though your story might be interesting. If so, then, without asking for personally identifying details (you should please feel free to randomize a bit to frustrate doxxers), I would be interested to read.

    • Replies: @A123
    @V. K. Ovelund

    I have a Bachelor's Engineering degree from a major research University. Technically that makes me College Grad, not Post Grad. Shift work at a plant is not fun, so I am now on the finance side of the house. That is about as much as I am willing to give up on personal background.

    The finance track business degree holders, from major universities, that I work with are usually pretty reasonable. My general rule of thumb is the less "quantitative" the degree, the more likely you are going to hit SJW crazy. Math (and programming) weeds out those who cannot process objective facts with right/wrong calculated answers.

    PEACE 😇

  30. @Realist
    @unit472

    Unit472 has been found defective and is being decommissioned.

    Replies: @unit472

    If that is the best you can come up with I suggest you exchange your keyboard for a box of crayons.

  31. Franz: “What’s the hi-IQ crowd message here?”

    Those with post-grad degrees may have higher IQs, but in order to have succeeded in grad school and obtained that degree, they ordinarily also must have conformist personalities. Grad school is all about conforming your thinking to your professors’. Except in a relatively few cases, great originality in a student is neither expected nor appreciated. All a high IQ does for most people who have one is to help them assimilate a particular point of view (i.e., propaganda) faster. This is why colleges and universities are cesspits of political correctness, even (or especially) among the faculty. Perhaps this association between conformity and IQ also underlies the supposedly conformist nature of high-IQ Asian societies compared to those in the West.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @Dr. Robert Morgan

    Yours is the single most interesting comment at The Unz Review so far this week:


    Those with post-grad degrees may have higher IQs, but in order to have succeeded in grad school and obtained that degree, they ordinarily also must have conformist personalities. Grad school is all about conforming your thinking to your professors’. Except in a relatively few cases, great originality in a student is neither expected nor appreciated. All a high IQ does for most people who have one is to help them assimilate a particular point of view (i.e., propaganda) faster. This is why colleges and universities are cesspits of political correctness, even (or especially) among the faculty. Perhaps this association between conformity and IQ also underlies the supposedly conformist nature of high-IQ Asian societies compared to those in the West.
     
    There is much to unpack there. Much to chew on, as it were. Many implications.

    I had never thought of it in this way, but nothing you write in your comment contradicts an iota of my own experience. Fascinating.

    , @Adûnâi
    @Dr. Robert Morgan

    Stupidity... Just a few hours [edit: days] ago, I had a thought that would in a way vindicate Chechar's understanding. Intelligence only applies to an actor that receives the correct input data. 2+2=4, but what is the answer if he happens to have bad eyesight?

    I can't precisely explain how this would pertain to axiology. But an example could be: in Enoch Powell's "Rivers of Blood" speech's time, the Anglo society did not imagine immigration vividly enough. Certainly, there were no "Aryan women with Negro men" miscegenation advertisements in the streets. Is it a matter of the IQ? Did the Christian axiology tranquilize the inherent Aryan intelligence in this one respect? Were the relevant social forces neutered, maybe by their own choice of action?

    Rationality is the ability to perform a means-ends calculation, if I heard it correctly. What is the end goal of Francis of Assisi, however? Does morality even have an aim? It's always the vectors; the participants have their brains neutered if need be. For example, modern Christianity puts an infinite value on every Negro life in Africa - it will lead to mass starvation in the hundreds of millions in the future. Do they foresee it? No. Anything else is not merely taboo and irrational - it is beyond the pale, unthinkable. I haven't seen an atheist militant faction in the Levantine civil wars - even Rojava does not dare to smear the name of Allah.

    There is something blocking the Aryan race's will to live. Let's hope, the conditions of the future will be a grindstone, not a guillotine.

    P.S. This was originally intended to be a response to your comment under the Kyle Rittenhouse article, but here, it is even more appropriate.

    I would only add that the wish of any spiritual Christian is that there is one Truth which any person with the IQ high enough is destined to uncover. Yet, is it the reality? Or maybe, the IQs are not high enough to grasp what neo-Nazi thugs know instinctively or by experience...

  32. @Dr. Robert Morgan
    Franz: "What’s the hi-IQ crowd message here?"

    Those with post-grad degrees may have higher IQs, but in order to have succeeded in grad school and obtained that degree, they ordinarily also must have conformist personalities. Grad school is all about conforming your thinking to your professors'. Except in a relatively few cases, great originality in a student is neither expected nor appreciated. All a high IQ does for most people who have one is to help them assimilate a particular point of view (i.e., propaganda) faster. This is why colleges and universities are cesspits of political correctness, even (or especially) among the faculty. Perhaps this association between conformity and IQ also underlies the supposedly conformist nature of high-IQ Asian societies compared to those in the West.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @Adûnâi

    Yours is the single most interesting comment at The Unz Review so far this week:

    Those with post-grad degrees may have higher IQs, but in order to have succeeded in grad school and obtained that degree, they ordinarily also must have conformist personalities. Grad school is all about conforming your thinking to your professors’. Except in a relatively few cases, great originality in a student is neither expected nor appreciated. All a high IQ does for most people who have one is to help them assimilate a particular point of view (i.e., propaganda) faster. This is why colleges and universities are cesspits of political correctness, even (or especially) among the faculty. Perhaps this association between conformity and IQ also underlies the supposedly conformist nature of high-IQ Asian societies compared to those in the West.

    There is much to unpack there. Much to chew on, as it were. Many implications.

    I had never thought of it in this way, but nothing you write in your comment contradicts an iota of my own experience. Fascinating.

  33. Refraining from burning down buildings and assaulting people in the street is not mandatory,

    Where did you get that nutty idea?

    Of course it’s mandatory! Do you not know there are laws against arson and assault? Or are you just trying to sneak in that false premise to build a rickety logical bridge connecting riots and face masks?

    Your faulty logic has succeeded only in erecting a false dichotomy.

  34. @unit472
    I'll be the devil's advocate here and support masks/lockdowns. China got on top of THEIR virus fast. They did so by really locking down Wuhan. Since the gestation period of their virus was 10-14 days and it was mostly contained in Wuhan they are now basically fighting the blowback from their conscious decision to allow their virus to infect the rest of the world.

    The point is, with a new infectious disease of unknown lethality on the loose it is better to suffer a short sharp disruption of life and get it under control than to allow the virus to spread throughout the country and endure months or years of restrictions. Business can endure a few weeks under lockdown conditions but not a long pandemic. Airlines, hotels, restaurants, hair salons and so much else will have been bankrupted by the time we get this virus under control ( if we ever do).

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Realist, @Cloudbuster, @Diversity Heretic, @dfordoom, @Rosie

    I am extraordinarily skeptical that China’s actual Wuhan Flu death numbers are anywhere near as low as they are claiming. China has zero transparency and a reputation for blatant willingness to lie.

    • Replies: @Ugetit
    @Cloudbuster


    I am extraordinarily skeptical that China’s actual Wuhan Flu death numbers are anywhere near as low as they are claiming. China has zero transparency and a reputation for blatant willingness to lie.
     
    I am extraordinarily skeptical about anything promoted by big media and am willing to bet that most people outside of China who nonetheless feel compelled to yammer on about China, know about as much about it as I do which is to say, darned little. Additionally the kings and queens of lying are US and Israelis in positions of power, at least in my experience. Furthermore, they can be relied upon to project their faults onto others.

    Replies: @Cloudbuster

  35. @unit472
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The problem with your reply is that it is entirely political and has nothing to do with the medical reality of the virus. When did you determine the virus was not Black Plague 2.0? My guess was it was at some point AFTER China locked down Wuhan. Why did they lock down Wuhan because they KNEW the virus had escaped from their bio lab into their own population. That's also the reason they let planes fly out of China to the rest of the world. If they had unleashed Black Plague 2.0 they were going to make sure the rest of the world got infected too.

    My point, which is, evidently, to0 acute for you to grasp is that once a virus has spread widely it is almost impossible to get it back into the bottle without strick lockdowns and quarantines. I went through this first hand back in 1980 when AIDS broke out in San Francisco. The medical consensus was that infection vectors needed to be shut down and contact tracing done. The political consensus was that would stigmatize male homosexuals so the virus ( although we didn't know it was a virus at first) so the gay bars and bath houses stayed open and the disease spread like wildfire all over the US.

    If your position on Covid is different than your position on AIDS it is YOU who is applying political criterion to a medical issue not I.

    Replies: @Lucius Somesuch, @Adam Smith, @Achmed E. Newman, @Insouciant

    The problem with your replies, unit472, is that I can’t tell what tense you’re composing in. You seem at times to admit that while this might have been a legitimate concern at the beginning of the year, events have proven governments to have been (albeit innocently, by your thesis) in error; but then you also seem to suggest at times that we are somehow still awaiting the verdict on whether Covid-19 might still turn out to be Black Death 2.0 after all. Are you indeed implying that there is still doubt? Do you worry that Covid-19 is finally going to live up to its initial hype and wipe out 2 million Americans, or 20? If not, then you should pitch your appeal for leniency to the erring authorities a bit more clearly. Personally I hold them gravely accountable. Certainly I hold them to have peddled tremendous falsehoods. I’m not scandalized if you wish to appeal for mercy on the grounds that you think they were simply panicking in the face of an unknown and scary-looking threat. But the ship has sailed on Covid-19 being a terror to the able-bodied adult or youngling. Or do you deny this too?

  36. @unit472
    I'll be the devil's advocate here and support masks/lockdowns. China got on top of THEIR virus fast. They did so by really locking down Wuhan. Since the gestation period of their virus was 10-14 days and it was mostly contained in Wuhan they are now basically fighting the blowback from their conscious decision to allow their virus to infect the rest of the world.

    The point is, with a new infectious disease of unknown lethality on the loose it is better to suffer a short sharp disruption of life and get it under control than to allow the virus to spread throughout the country and endure months or years of restrictions. Business can endure a few weeks under lockdown conditions but not a long pandemic. Airlines, hotels, restaurants, hair salons and so much else will have been bankrupted by the time we get this virus under control ( if we ever do).

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Realist, @Cloudbuster, @Diversity Heretic, @dfordoom, @Rosie

    The mathematical models for diseases spreading through a population were first developed in the 1840s by William Farr, a British medical statistician and remain valid today. (And Farr thought diseases were caused by miasmas, not organisms; the germ theory of disease,pioneered by Robert Koch and Louis Pasteur had yet to be accepted.) There is simply no way that an epidemic or a pandemic can last years; hysteria in trying to half the perfectly natural transmission of a not-so-dangerous virus can be indefinite.

  37. Look on the bright side, AE. Soon we’ll have a new Chris Hansen series to watch, inspired by one Nancy Pelosi: “To Catch a Superspreader.”

    Why don’t you have a seat way over there?

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
  38. First of all, if the powers that be want to continue the self-serving idiocy of organizing civilization around “open societies”, the best COVID-19 policy is one that achieves a critical threshold of 80% of the population masking up in enclosed public spaces. That permits the 20% that find it intolerable and everything else to get back to normal including movie theaters, schools, stadiums, etc. All without vaccination enforcement or high-frequency test-and-trace infrastructure.

    Secondly, and more importantly, protective sequestration is the right way to organize civilization but virulent merchants oppose it for the same reason they oppose sorting proponents of social theories into governments that test them which naturally results in protective sequestration for populations that want it and permits the rest to go to Hell in their own way. Of course, the powers that be (merchants) will not permit this to occur and will therefore drag the rest of us down into the Hell of a 30 years war until 1 in 4 are dead — mainly in the urban areas.

  39. @V. K. Ovelund
    @A123

    I wrote more about myself in the earlier comment than is usually polite, but should nevertheless probably respond to your taxonomy by admitting that this category includes me:


    ... STEM degrees from mid-tier programs ...
     
    Which category includes you, please, if you care to tell?

    It sounds as though your story might be interesting. If so, then, without asking for personally identifying details (you should please feel free to randomize a bit to frustrate doxxers), I would be interested to read.

    Replies: @A123

    I have a Bachelor’s Engineering degree from a major research University. Technically that makes me College Grad, not Post Grad. Shift work at a plant is not fun, so I am now on the finance side of the house. That is about as much as I am willing to give up on personal background.

    The finance track business degree holders, from major universities, that I work with are usually pretty reasonable. My general rule of thumb is the less “quantitative” the degree, the more likely you are going to hit SJW crazy. Math (and programming) weeds out those who cannot process objective facts with right/wrong calculated answers.

    PEACE 😇

  40. @unit472
    I'll be the devil's advocate here and support masks/lockdowns. China got on top of THEIR virus fast. They did so by really locking down Wuhan. Since the gestation period of their virus was 10-14 days and it was mostly contained in Wuhan they are now basically fighting the blowback from their conscious decision to allow their virus to infect the rest of the world.

    The point is, with a new infectious disease of unknown lethality on the loose it is better to suffer a short sharp disruption of life and get it under control than to allow the virus to spread throughout the country and endure months or years of restrictions. Business can endure a few weeks under lockdown conditions but not a long pandemic. Airlines, hotels, restaurants, hair salons and so much else will have been bankrupted by the time we get this virus under control ( if we ever do).

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Realist, @Cloudbuster, @Diversity Heretic, @dfordoom, @Rosie

    The point is, with a new infectious disease of unknown lethality on the loose it is better to suffer a short sharp disruption of life and get it under control than to allow the virus to spread throughout the country and endure months or years of restrictions. Business can endure a few weeks under lockdown conditions but not a long pandemic. Airlines, hotels, restaurants, hair salons and so much else will have been bankrupted by the time we get this virus under control ( if we ever do).

    I tend to agree. The biggest failure of western governments was that they acted much too slowly, and at first half-heartedly. A short sharp lockdown and we could have avoided all this misery. But idiots like Trump kept insisting that there was no problem. When you’re not sure how serious a virus is going to turn out to be, stomp it hard and fast.

    • Disagree: iffen
    • Replies: @anon
    @dfordoom

    The biggest failure of western governments was that they acted much too slowly, and at first half-heartedly. A short sharp lockdown and we could have avoided all this misery. But idiots like Trump kept insisting that there was no problem.

    How did Trump cause problems for Australia? Earlier in the year you were quite proud of the Aussie effort, but lately I see quite a strict lockdown including police powers that go quite far. Perhaps you could expand on your comment in the context of Victoria, rather than your mild derangement over Trump?

    In the US the States have used their authority in widely ranging ways. I can cross a border and go from a "mandatory mask" place to an "optional mask" place, but it's really not difficult to comply if one just remembers to do so. State A allows 25% occupancy of a restaurant, state B allows 50%, for a while state C only allowed dining out of doors. There are larger issues for me to consider, such as family members who fall into an "at risk" category.

    I'll point out again that much of the mask rage is obviously displacement. Can't make the Coof go away, the symptoms are odd (but now more understandable) parts of the US are no-go zones for normal people and nothing can be done about any of it at the individual level -- but raging about masks makes some people feel better.

    COVID-19 / SARS-2 is a circulatory disease that is spread by respiratory route. The mechanism of harm is much better understood now, and explains many of the symptoms including 'covid toe', stroke and others. Details are in this article.

    https://elemental.medium.com/a-supercomputer-analyzed-covid-19-and-an-interesting-new-theory-has-emerged-31cb8eba9d63

    , @Lars Porsena
    @dfordoom

    Dude. Look at New Zealand.

    We'll see if they ever escape it.

    Some countries are done with this already. NZ is not one.

    Replies: @A123

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @dfordoom

    This is only true if the lockdown is extremely thorough and extremely enforced in addition to being extremely early.

    And as Lord Sumption said, the idea that the government can just shut everything down and force you to stay inside is not in the Anglo-American tradition, so unlawful, which makes its enforcement highly problematic, ad it means the police obeying the dictates of politicians rather than actual laws.

  41. @Achmed E. Newman
    I never would have expected numbers that high. It is a simple, straightforward question too, with no leeway for interpretation, so this is very sad. I've always supported the American people as opposed to supporting the Feral Gov't (many people confuse the two), but maybe it's time to quit caring about em as a whole.

    There aren't many men of principle anymore, much less women (never were many of the latter - it's not their thing). It's makes me wonder when I read insults like "muh Constitution" how the writers cannot know how this always turns out. Almost 2 decades ago the Security Theater of the TSA cranked up, and now we have the Heathcare Theater of the CDC. Do you think either one will be ended? Never - your Authoritahs know what's best for you, the way all you people on those bars in the graph act.

    This is truly a nation of pussies, although I'll give Australia the # 1 spot. (Hello, DforDoom, enjoying this?) Peak Stupidity, having some perspective, has railed on this madness since March. The nation had an intermission in the Infotainment Panic-Fest with the riots, but now Season 2 has been airing. The big change is from "this Plague can live on doorknobs for 8 1/2 weeks!" to "it can spread through farts now! Put a mask on it!"

    Now, with even the CDC admitting that only 6% of the deaths of people WITH COVID-19 were FROM that virus ALONE, (see "Vindication, Bitchez!"), how are governments going to walk this back. They won't. They might even double down, just to show who's boss.




    Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4*, Part 5, Part 6, Part 7, Part 8, Part 9, and Part 10. (Almost all are about the wearing of face masks, the most obvious signal of one's stupidity.)

    ,

    * Part 4 NSFW unless you work from home and your wife doesn't.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @MBlanc46

    This is truly a nation of pussies, although I’ll give Australia the # 1 spot. (Hello, DforDoom, enjoying this?)

    Australia is a snivelling, grovelling, pathetic lapdog of the US. It makes me ashamed to be Australian.

    And the hysterical sinophobia in Australia today makes me even more ashamed.

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
    @dfordoom

    Mr. dfordoom says:

    And the hysterical sinophobia in Australia today makes me even more ashamed.

    I say:

    My modest and simple proposals for that antipodean place succinctly put:

    Australia must immediately re-implement the WHITE AUSTRALIA POLICY and Australia must deport all foreigners and non-Whites. Jews and other non-Anglo-Celts who have been pushing mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration must be forcibly exiled to sub-Saharan Africa immediately. All Australian Anglo-Celts who have been pushing mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration must be put on trial for treason against the historic Australian nation.

    Australia must acquire a nuclear deterrent and the means to deliver it and Australia must make it clear to frisky Asian nations that Australia will use nuclear weapons to protect and defend Australian sovereignty and national security.

    All treasonous Australian politicians who have crawled into bed with the Chinese Communist Party must be forcibly exiled and the real estate bubble and resource bubble must be popped.

    I say do similar for the USA but USA got nukes now. That's caveman talk.

    Implode the Australian financial bubble now so young Anglo-Celtic Australians can enjoy AFFORDABLE FAMILY FORMATION.

    Tweet from 2015:

    https://twitter.com/CharlesPewitt/status/643481480296013824?s=20

  42. @Achmed E. Newman
    @unit472

    I hope the Devil doesn't pay you big money in retainer fees, Unit-472, or he's not getting his money out of it.


    ... than to allow the virus to spread throughout the country and endure months or years of restrictions.
     
    These 2 things don't have to go together. They shouldn't, in fact. The LOCKDOWNS and other totalitarian measures have just been a way for governments on all levels in America to gain lots of new power (Spoiler alert: They don't give it back without a fight.)

    Absolutely NONE of it was necessary. Just as the case with DforDoom, I don't think the Kung Flu was a hoax, as in made up. I think the response to it throughout most of the world has been not a hoax, but a SCAM of immense proportions. It's amazing what countries full of cowed men and run as though nothing but menopausal women are in charge will put up with in the name of safety from a virus that has not been worse than a typical bad flu year.

    This is not the Black Plague 2.0.

    Replies: @unit472, @dfordoom

    This is not the Black Plague 2.0.

    I agree on that. But at the beginning it looked pretty serious. And even if it’s not the Black Plague we don’t need another virus becoming endemic. The responsible things for governments to do in that case is to eliminate the damned virus. Not behave like a clown the way politicians like Trump behaved.

    If we get hit with another virus that turns out to be really serious then we’re going to be royally screwed. We now know that western governments are incapable of responding to a crisis. We also know that the US government is even more incompetent than the average western government so if there’s a serious virus then America will infect the whole damned world.

    A not very serious virus has taken down the global economy. Just imagine what a serious virus would do.

    And there was no excuse for western governments such as the US Government, which had plenty of warning.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @dfordoom


    But at the beginning it looked pretty serious.
     
    On TV, it probably did! So what? I know enough of how much lying goes on in the Legacy Media that I don't believe much that I don't already know makes some sense.

    You are quite right that Western governments can't seem to focus and get things done. That used to be a very good thing, as they'd end up just leaving us the f__k alone to solve problems ourselves. OK, don't bring up wartime. The way America's (probably Australia's too) armed forces are nothing but a big social experiment now, I wouldn't expect much. (Perhaps that's for the best too, depending on the enemy. I am a patriot for the American Constitution, but that's as far as I go.)

    Again, you're not going to eliminate the damn virus. Do you think China has eliminated the virus in their country?

    Replies: @dfordoom

  43. Thank you, A.E., for focusing on the mask issue, which I raised recently around here somewhere.

    Is it possible to look at any cross tabs, that sort of thing, to get a better idea of how “mask-positive” people answer on other topics?

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Not with the YouGov surveys, unfortunately.

  44. Mr. Epigone says:

    Anarcho-tyranny is here–and most people love it.

    I say:

    Anarcho-Tyranny has been the political weapon of choice for the JEW/WASP ruling class of the American Empire for decades now. White Core America must dislodge the treasonous and evil JEW/WASP ruling class of the American Empire from power.

    A headline writer for VDARE nailed it good in regards to the mass immigration invasion of France and how the ruling class of France uses the turmoil and strife from mass immigration to expand its power and its ability to crush opposition.

    Headline writer for VDARE article by James Kirkpatrick:

    Anarcho-Tyranny Watch—France Expands Surveillance State To Deal With Islamic Terrorist They’re Not Planning To Deport

    Tweet from 2015:

  45. @Observator
    Funny, when you look back at how authorities dealt with the deadly flu epidemic of 1918-19, you find that they also ordered citizens to wear face masks and "social distance". At first they simply pretended, like Trump, that the infection would "burn itself out" without intervention. As cases mounted, brought to every city by soldiers returning from the Great War, the hospitals became overwhelmed and familiar steps were taken. Theaters and dance halls were closed, large public gatherings were banned, and then the masks and distancing were imposed, then schools and restaurants closed, there was a minor spike when "reopening" was done prematurely, but in time the flu passed. Rival politicians then played the blame game for personal advantage, just as new.

    The website http://www.influenzaarchive.org is a good source of data on the 1918-9 flu and how it was dealt with

    We are the laughingstock of the world, imagining that simple courtesy toward other members of our communities is some sinister form of slavery. Maybe legalizing marijuana is a bad idea after all: we seem to have plenty of paranoids already.

    Replies: @Ugetit

    …we seem to have plenty of paranoids already.

    What’s that you were preaching about simple courtesy in your prior paragraph?

  46. @Cloudbuster
    @unit472

    I am extraordinarily skeptical that China's actual Wuhan Flu death numbers are anywhere near as low as they are claiming. China has zero transparency and a reputation for blatant willingness to lie.

    Replies: @Ugetit

    I am extraordinarily skeptical that China’s actual Wuhan Flu death numbers are anywhere near as low as they are claiming. China has zero transparency and a reputation for blatant willingness to lie.

    I am extraordinarily skeptical about anything promoted by big media and am willing to bet that most people outside of China who nonetheless feel compelled to yammer on about China, know about as much about it as I do which is to say, darned little. Additionally the kings and queens of lying are US and Israelis in positions of power, at least in my experience. Furthermore, they can be relied upon to project their faults onto others.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    @Ugetit

    I've done business in China. When we got calls from one of our hardware suppliers that the Chinese were trying to buy our proprietary NICs (obviously to reverse engineer our product) that was the beginning of my awakening about China. We wouldn't even have needed copy protection on our products if it wasn't for China. Damned bunch of crooks. Then a number of years back they shipped contaminated baby food and pet food to the US. Animals died because of it, but I think, fortunately, no babies did.

    Everyone I know who has done work in China has stories to tell about their rampant lying and dishonesty, especially to outsiders.

  47. @dfordoom
    @Achmed E. Newman


    This is truly a nation of pussies, although I’ll give Australia the # 1 spot. (Hello, DforDoom, enjoying this?)
     
    Australia is a snivelling, grovelling, pathetic lapdog of the US. It makes me ashamed to be Australian.

    And the hysterical sinophobia in Australia today makes me even more ashamed.

    Replies: @Charles Pewitt

    Mr. dfordoom says:

    And the hysterical sinophobia in Australia today makes me even more ashamed.

    I say:

    My modest and simple proposals for that antipodean place succinctly put:

    Australia must immediately re-implement the WHITE AUSTRALIA POLICY and Australia must deport all foreigners and non-Whites. Jews and other non-Anglo-Celts who have been pushing mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration must be forcibly exiled to sub-Saharan Africa immediately. All Australian Anglo-Celts who have been pushing mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration must be put on trial for treason against the historic Australian nation.

    Australia must acquire a nuclear deterrent and the means to deliver it and Australia must make it clear to frisky Asian nations that Australia will use nuclear weapons to protect and defend Australian sovereignty and national security.

    All treasonous Australian politicians who have crawled into bed with the Chinese Communist Party must be forcibly exiled and the real estate bubble and resource bubble must be popped.

    I say do similar for the USA but USA got nukes now. That’s caveman talk.

    Implode the Australian financial bubble now so young Anglo-Celtic Australians can enjoy AFFORDABLE FAMILY FORMATION.

    Tweet from 2015:

  48. If you don’t like the shutdown, you are a neocon.

    I’ll say it again, you are an anti-white, neocon, limpdick, mentally handicapped Jewish female with AIDS if you think the shutdown is a bad thing.

    It has managed to achieve the following ends in less than a year:

    1.) Immigrants out of work

    2.) Women out of work

    3.) Minorities out of work

    4.) Global migrations shuttered

    5.) Hollywood shut down

    6.) Budgets cut

    7.) Now publicly acceptable to walk around with face and eyes covered (I thought you valued ANONYNYMITY?)

    8.) Police response times increased, so you can kick more ass now

    9.) Minority mortality now exceeding white mortality even with the deaths of despair

    10.) USA food exports increased faster than Trump could ever have hoped for

    The list goes on and on. This shutdown has massively benefitted the rural white Trump voter you asshats are always supposedly sympathizing for, and hurt everyone else. Why are so many of you complaining? Are you really so desperate for a Trump victory, that you want to sacrifice all these gains for another 4 years of edgy tweets and MAGA hats?

    It’s hard to understand how someone could be so pathetic and hopelessly enslaved to a presidential administration. If Democrats are so stupid let them take the reigns and fuck shit up for their constituents. The fake US economy that they will destroy only serves minimum wage earners and childless women. The real US economy (which is invincible) showed its strength during the shutdown.

    Covid-19 shutdowns answered a question we were all wondering about: is “accelerationism” a good thing or a bad thing? The answer is clear if you’re an old-stock American and not a Netflix-watching minority who gets paid to talk: Good. If the shutdown could be extended for another year that would have a better effect than 10,000 consecutive Trump terms.

  49. @V. K. Ovelund
    @Franz


    Curious.

    How come postgrads are more likely than oldsters (by a dozen points!)?
     

    A postgrad myself, I have never quite understood this. Is it just postgraduate vanity?

    The thing is, the majority of the postgrads I know (and I know plenty) are not especially vain—or else I am so unwittingly vain, myself, that I can no longer tell the difference.

    Yet almost every single time I see one of these polls in which advanced degrees correlate different attitudes than high-school diplomas do, my own attitudes track the high-school diplomas. I don't get it.

    I did not grow up in a working-class home. I did not marry into a working-class family. My kin are more likely to sign a paycheck than to receive one. I have spoken American English with a standard U.S.-business/Broadway-stage accent all my life and have only one relative with a tattoo. My war-veteran forebears were U.S. officers and nothing in my own appearance or bearing suggests otherwise as far as I know. Except that I am a bit of an underachiever compared to most of the family, I should be a nearly perfect candidate today to hold progressive elite attitudes, but I fail to grasp the point.

    If anyone here can explain it to me, I would be interested.

    Replies: @A123, @Vergissmeinnicht, @Intelligent Dasein, @Franz, @iffen

    The thing is, the majority of the postgrads I know (and I know plenty) are not especially vain—or else I am so unwittingly vain, myself, that I can no longer tell the difference…

    …If anyone here can explain it to me, I would be interested.

    Interrupting the thread in order to ask strangers on the internet to speculate about why your precious mental state is the way that it is, does seem a bit “unwittingly vain,” if you don’t mind me saying so. Maybe I don’t give a shit. Maybe I came to this thread to talk about masks and Covid-19, as the title would suggest. Besides which, any putative answer would have to assume that your friends’ wokeness and your lack of wokeness has a simple, explicable cause that can be set out in a short blog comment. I don’t believe that is the case at all.

    However, speaking as a friend, I will tell you the general direction along which the answer lies: You are insensible to academic authority; that is why you got fired.

    And to supplement, I will only tell you again the same thing I told you once before. You need to do something with the gifts and opportunities you’ve been given. You don’t need the strangers here to stroke your ego and tell you how tough and independent you are. You’ve already been predestined for toughness by the circumstances of your life. If God did not know you could handle it, He would not have let it befall you. So buck up, buttercup, and just do it. You can’t soar with the eagles if you’re fluttering around with the chickens on this blog.

    Of, and break off your love affair with dfordoom. He is an atheist Australian Corvinus 2.0 troll who contradicts everything not for knowledge’s sake but just to be a peckerhead.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @Intelligent Dasein

    The criticism is deserved and well taken. Good point. I knew or should have known better.

    I do like @dfordoom, though. Can't help that.

    This blog has a collection of pretty interesting regular commenters. He is one. You are another. Dunbar's number does not defeat this group. It's a good one.

    , @iffen
    @Intelligent Dasein

    that can be set out in a short blog comment.

    How would you know what a short blog comment looks like?

  50. Sam Francis On Anarcho-Tyranny in 2004

    Sam Francis — Anarcho-Tyranny—Where Multiculturalism Leads:

    Unwilling to control immigration and the cultural disintegration it causes, the authorities instead control the law-abiding.

    This is precisely the bizarre system of misrule I have elsewhere described as “anarcho-tyranny”—we refuse to control real criminals (that`s the anarchy) so we control the innocent (that`s the tyranny).

    What is now becoming obvious in Europe…ought to be no less obvious to our own decrepit rulers here.

    It`s already obvious to those they rule.

    All they need is a leader with the guts and brains to say it out loud.

    Tweet from 2015:

  51. anon[184] • Disclaimer says:
    @dfordoom
    @unit472


    The point is, with a new infectious disease of unknown lethality on the loose it is better to suffer a short sharp disruption of life and get it under control than to allow the virus to spread throughout the country and endure months or years of restrictions. Business can endure a few weeks under lockdown conditions but not a long pandemic. Airlines, hotels, restaurants, hair salons and so much else will have been bankrupted by the time we get this virus under control ( if we ever do).
     
    I tend to agree. The biggest failure of western governments was that they acted much too slowly, and at first half-heartedly. A short sharp lockdown and we could have avoided all this misery. But idiots like Trump kept insisting that there was no problem. When you're not sure how serious a virus is going to turn out to be, stomp it hard and fast.

    Replies: @anon, @Lars Porsena, @Chrisnonymous

    The biggest failure of western governments was that they acted much too slowly, and at first half-heartedly. A short sharp lockdown and we could have avoided all this misery. But idiots like Trump kept insisting that there was no problem.

    How did Trump cause problems for Australia? Earlier in the year you were quite proud of the Aussie effort, but lately I see quite a strict lockdown including police powers that go quite far. Perhaps you could expand on your comment in the context of Victoria, rather than your mild derangement over Trump?

    In the US the States have used their authority in widely ranging ways. I can cross a border and go from a “mandatory mask” place to an “optional mask” place, but it’s really not difficult to comply if one just remembers to do so. State A allows 25% occupancy of a restaurant, state B allows 50%, for a while state C only allowed dining out of doors. There are larger issues for me to consider, such as family members who fall into an “at risk” category.

    I’ll point out again that much of the mask rage is obviously displacement. Can’t make the Coof go away, the symptoms are odd (but now more understandable) parts of the US are no-go zones for normal people and nothing can be done about any of it at the individual level — but raging about masks makes some people feel better.

    COVID-19 / SARS-2 is a circulatory disease that is spread by respiratory route. The mechanism of harm is much better understood now, and explains many of the symptoms including ‘covid toe’, stroke and others. Details are in this article.

    https://elemental.medium.com/a-supercomputer-analyzed-covid-19-and-an-interesting-new-theory-has-emerged-31cb8eba9d63

  52. Sam Francis on ANARCHO-TYRANNY from 2003:

    Mr. Barr’s words are almost a definition of the system of government I have called “anarcho-tyranny”: a combination of anarchy (in which legitimate government functions—like spying on the bad guys or punishing real criminals—are not performed) and tyranny (in which government performs illegitimate functions—like spying on the good guys or criminalizing innocent conduct like gun ownership and political dissent).

    The result of anarcho-tyranny is that government swells in power, criminals are not controlled, and law-abiding citizens wind up being repressed by the state and attacked by thugs.

    https://vdare.com/articles/mass-immigration-feckless-feds-anarcho-tyranny

    • Replies: @Alexander Turok
    @Charles Pewitt

    I'd bet if Francis saw it, his initial reaction would have been similar to Steve Sailer's. I can only guess whether or not he would have followed Steve in selling out.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

  53. @Intelligent Dasein
    @V. K. Ovelund


    The thing is, the majority of the postgrads I know (and I know plenty) are not especially vain—or else I am so unwittingly vain, myself, that I can no longer tell the difference...

    ...If anyone here can explain it to me, I would be interested.
     
    Interrupting the thread in order to ask strangers on the internet to speculate about why your precious mental state is the way that it is, does seem a bit "unwittingly vain," if you don't mind me saying so. Maybe I don't give a shit. Maybe I came to this thread to talk about masks and Covid-19, as the title would suggest. Besides which, any putative answer would have to assume that your friends' wokeness and your lack of wokeness has a simple, explicable cause that can be set out in a short blog comment. I don't believe that is the case at all.

    However, speaking as a friend, I will tell you the general direction along which the answer lies: You are insensible to academic authority; that is why you got fired.

    And to supplement, I will only tell you again the same thing I told you once before. You need to do something with the gifts and opportunities you've been given. You don't need the strangers here to stroke your ego and tell you how tough and independent you are. You've already been predestined for toughness by the circumstances of your life. If God did not know you could handle it, He would not have let it befall you. So buck up, buttercup, and just do it. You can't soar with the eagles if you're fluttering around with the chickens on this blog.

    Of, and break off your love affair with dfordoom. He is an atheist Australian Corvinus 2.0 troll who contradicts everything not for knowledge's sake but just to be a peckerhead.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @iffen

    The criticism is deserved and well taken. Good point. I knew or should have known better.

    I do like , though. Can’t help that.

    This blog has a collection of pretty interesting regular commenters. He is one. You are another. Dunbar’s number does not defeat this group. It’s a good one.

  54. @unit472
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The problem with your reply is that it is entirely political and has nothing to do with the medical reality of the virus. When did you determine the virus was not Black Plague 2.0? My guess was it was at some point AFTER China locked down Wuhan. Why did they lock down Wuhan because they KNEW the virus had escaped from their bio lab into their own population. That's also the reason they let planes fly out of China to the rest of the world. If they had unleashed Black Plague 2.0 they were going to make sure the rest of the world got infected too.

    My point, which is, evidently, to0 acute for you to grasp is that once a virus has spread widely it is almost impossible to get it back into the bottle without strick lockdowns and quarantines. I went through this first hand back in 1980 when AIDS broke out in San Francisco. The medical consensus was that infection vectors needed to be shut down and contact tracing done. The political consensus was that would stigmatize male homosexuals so the virus ( although we didn't know it was a virus at first) so the gay bars and bath houses stayed open and the disease spread like wildfire all over the US.

    If your position on Covid is different than your position on AIDS it is YOU who is applying political criterion to a medical issue not I.

    Replies: @Lucius Somesuch, @Adam Smith, @Achmed E. Newman, @Insouciant

    I went through this first hand back in 1980 when AIDS broke out in San Francisco.

    Refrain from intravenous drug use and bath house sodomy and you won’t catch the HIV.

    https://playcoronaworld.com/

  55. @unit472
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The problem with your reply is that it is entirely political and has nothing to do with the medical reality of the virus. When did you determine the virus was not Black Plague 2.0? My guess was it was at some point AFTER China locked down Wuhan. Why did they lock down Wuhan because they KNEW the virus had escaped from their bio lab into their own population. That's also the reason they let planes fly out of China to the rest of the world. If they had unleashed Black Plague 2.0 they were going to make sure the rest of the world got infected too.

    My point, which is, evidently, to0 acute for you to grasp is that once a virus has spread widely it is almost impossible to get it back into the bottle without strick lockdowns and quarantines. I went through this first hand back in 1980 when AIDS broke out in San Francisco. The medical consensus was that infection vectors needed to be shut down and contact tracing done. The political consensus was that would stigmatize male homosexuals so the virus ( although we didn't know it was a virus at first) so the gay bars and bath houses stayed open and the disease spread like wildfire all over the US.

    If your position on Covid is different than your position on AIDS it is YOU who is applying political criterion to a medical issue not I.

    Replies: @Lucius Somesuch, @Adam Smith, @Achmed E. Newman, @Insouciant

    Do you think this virus will just stay bottled up and gone, from all of China (even with 2-week quarantine strictly-controlled travel) and anywhere that hard-core procedure are or have been in place? Viruses don’t work like that. They will get to everyone, but the problem is in how potent a mutation. As my specialist friend heard from his I.D. (Infectious Disease) doctor friend months ago, “hey do you know anyone who’s not gotten the common cold?”

    What would have happened to the AIDS virus if all the homos in the world had been LOCKED down, without their “buddies”? What would have happened to the virus – would it have gone from the face of the earth? (BTW, I agree that the many years of that narrative that AIDS can hit anyone was a great disservice to anyone who likes getting laid.)

    The most virulent strains are being put off in some place into the future. I don’t even know if they will come out ahead on ACTUAL deaths FROM this COVID-19 at all. (Of course, for governments it’s all about incentives in how you log deaths. Need to get the numbers down? Sure, let’s get the insurance companies to remove the co-pay and deductible waivers they’ve had for the Trump Administration the last 6 months. What else do ya’ need?)

    As commenter Digital Samizdat wrote: “If this were the Black Plague, we wouldn’t be arguing if this were the Black Plague or not.” Excellent way to put it. I don’t even know a single soul who’s gotten this thing for sure, I mean gotten actually sick, much less anyone who has died from it. I know nobody who knows anyone who’s died from it.

    The amount of perspective one gains in life and the ability to not go into hysterics based on 6 months of 24/7 Infotainment is not a political effort. It’s just being a responsible man.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Achmed E. Newman


    What would have happened to the AIDS virus if all the homos in the world had been LOCKED down, without their “buddies”? What would have happened to the virus – would it have gone from the face of the earth?
     
    Probably yes. AIDS was unusual - an infectious disease that is very very non-infectious. You really had to work overtime to catch AIDS. It was a case of a virus that really could have been eliminated entirely in very short order. Even by the standards of sexually transmitted diseases AIDS was incredibly difficult to spread by sexual contact. Apart from using IV drugs you could only get it by indulging in frequent sodomy. It was and is virtually impossible to catch by normal heterosexual sex (heterosexual sodomy is most definitely not normal).

    Never in history has there been an infectious disease that would have been so trivially easy to eradicate. The only way that it could possibly fail to have been eradicated was by encouraging male homosexuals to continue indulging in promiscuous sodomy. And that's what governments did - encouraged male homosexuals to continue with the very practices that spread the disease. And governments failed to isolate and quarantine infected populations.

    It was an epic governmental failure. Fortunately non-pervert heterosexuals and non-drug addicts did not have to pay the price for this failure.

    COVID was obviously going to be very much more difficult to bring under control, but with the accumulated experience of dealing with various other viruses there was a chance it could have been stamped out. What the fuck do we have governments for if not to deal with crises such as this?

    We were incredibly lucky that COVID turned out to be not very lethal at all. We might not be so lucky next time.

    Just as a matter of interest, from a libertarian perspective, how exactly do you think governments should respond in future if a really nasty virus emerges? Should we all close our eyes and chant, "It's just the flu bro?"

    Replies: @songbird, @Mark G.

    , @Adam Smith
    @Achmed E. Newman


    I know nobody who knows anyone who’s died from it.
     
    I have a friend who's sister died with covid.
    Statistically, she is one of the Cases! and one of the Deaths! here in Georgia.

    Susie was 77 years old. She lived in a nursing home for the last few years. She had COPD, persistent colonized pneumonia, still smoked cigarettes and had withered down to 65lbs over the last few years.

    Another tragic example of a life taken early by the most sinister of viruses.

    Damn you SARS-CoV-2!

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    , @Whitney
    @Achmed E. Newman

    At this point I know a lot of people that have had it. Mostly college age kids but some adults. The worst anyone felt was pretty crappy. Nobody was hospitalized and nobody even really went to a doctor except for the test. If this were what it was projected to be we would know many people that had died now that we're six months into our two-week lockdown

  56. @dfordoom
    @Achmed E. Newman


    This is not the Black Plague 2.0.
     
    I agree on that. But at the beginning it looked pretty serious. And even if it's not the Black Plague we don't need another virus becoming endemic. The responsible things for governments to do in that case is to eliminate the damned virus. Not behave like a clown the way politicians like Trump behaved.

    If we get hit with another virus that turns out to be really serious then we're going to be royally screwed. We now know that western governments are incapable of responding to a crisis. We also know that the US government is even more incompetent than the average western government so if there's a serious virus then America will infect the whole damned world.

    A not very serious virus has taken down the global economy. Just imagine what a serious virus would do.

    And there was no excuse for western governments such as the US Government, which had plenty of warning.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    But at the beginning it looked pretty serious.

    On TV, it probably did! So what? I know enough of how much lying goes on in the Legacy Media that I don’t believe much that I don’t already know makes some sense.

    You are quite right that Western governments can’t seem to focus and get things done. That used to be a very good thing, as they’d end up just leaving us the f__k alone to solve problems ourselves. OK, don’t bring up wartime. The way America’s (probably Australia’s too) armed forces are nothing but a big social experiment now, I wouldn’t expect much. (Perhaps that’s for the best too, depending on the enemy. I am a patriot for the American Constitution, but that’s as far as I go.)

    Again, you’re not going to eliminate the damn virus. Do you think China has eliminated the virus in their country?

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Achmed E. Newman


    You are quite right that Western governments can’t seem to focus and get things done. That used to be a very good thing, as they’d end up just leaving us the f__k alone to solve problems ourselves.
     
    I generally sort of agree. There are many areas of life which governments have no business getting involved in. Governments routinely expend money and energy trying to solve non-existent problems, or trying to solve problems that are real but are problems that governments can simply never solve. To a very large extent I'd prefer the government to get the hell out of people's private lives.

    But it's a worry that we now know that if a problem does arise that we cannot solve ourselves (and such problems do exist and pandemics are one of those problems) our governments are incapable of dealing with such problems.

    The way America’s (probably Australia’s too) armed forces are nothing but a big social experiment now, I wouldn’t expect much. (Perhaps that’s for the best too,
     
    I agree. The less efficient our military forces are the better. If the US military becomes totally incapable of fighting its way out of a wet paper bag that would be a very good thing for the whole world (and would be a very good thing for Americans since it would discourage the US Government from getting mixed up in other nations' affairs). And since the sole purpose of the Australian military is to fight in America's damn fool wars I'd be delighted to see the Australian military become as inefficient as possible.

    The only problem is that our increasingly useless militaries are going to remain very profitable for the parasitical "defence" industry so they're going to continue to cost us money. And they're going to continue to corrupt our political systems.
  57. An overwhelming majority of Americans do not merely condone and want to see encouraged the use of masks, they want it made and kept mandatory.

    How can we resist if we are afraid of one another, can’t see half of another person’s face and gestures, can’t hug, kiss, or even shake hands? This is a movement to dehumanise us, to separate us, and weaken the social bonds that might make it easier for decent human beings to unite to resist being led into the Casino Gulag world they are making for us.

  58. @Charles Pewitt
    Sam Francis on ANARCHO-TYRANNY from 2003:

    Mr. Barr’s words are almost a definition of the system of government I have called “anarcho-tyranny”: a combination of anarchy (in which legitimate government functions—like spying on the bad guys or punishing real criminals—are not performed) and tyranny (in which government performs illegitimate functions—like spying on the good guys or criminalizing innocent conduct like gun ownership and political dissent).

     


    The result of anarcho-tyranny is that government swells in power, criminals are not controlled, and law-abiding citizens wind up being repressed by the state and attacked by thugs.

     

    https://vdare.com/articles/mass-immigration-feckless-feds-anarcho-tyranny

    Replies: @Alexander Turok

    I’d bet if Francis saw it, his initial reaction would have been similar to Steve Sailer’s. I can only guess whether or not he would have followed Steve in selling out.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @Alexander Turok


    I’d bet if Francis saw it, his initial reaction would have been similar to Steve Sailer’s. I can only guess whether or not he would have followed Steve in selling out.
     
    I don't get it. Steve is an honest man, a genius, and a nonpseudonymous hero. When did he sell out? What did he sell?

    Whatever it was, Steve must not have gotten much money for it.

    If Steve has sold out, then I'd like to sell out with him. Wouldn't you?

    Replies: @Alexander Turok

  59. Australian cops in Victoria arrest pregnant mother for trying to organize anti-lockdown rally via Facebook. Includes video streamed of the arrest.

    Anyone around from Oz who would care to explain this event? Anyone? Bueller?

    https://gizmodo.com/woman-arrested-for-facebook-post-promoting-anti-lockdow-1844926107

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @anon


    Australian cops in Victoria arrest pregnant mother for trying to organize anti-lockdown rally via Facebook. Includes video streamed of the arrest.

    Anyone around from Oz who would care to explain this event? Anyone? Bueller?
     
    Victoria is a weird place. They've gone much much further down the paths of degeneracy and decadence and totalitarianism than the rest of the country. What's happening in Victoria at the moment is exactly what I'd expect to see happening there.

    Forget it Jake. It's Victoria.
  60. @LondonBob
    I am surprised the business lobby isn't more vocal protesting these measures. Definitely here there is a segment of the population that was hysterical about Brexit, Trump and now Covid, definitely a mental thing. Here the government messed up big time and perseveres with these ludicrous restrictions to cover up their failures.

    Good polls for Trump by Trafalgar.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Alexander Turok

    We need mass replacement of American workers with h1b Indians, or else Corporarion XYZ will just have to shut down!

    A total economic shutdown is just fine though apparently.

  61. @Alexander Turok
    @Charles Pewitt

    I'd bet if Francis saw it, his initial reaction would have been similar to Steve Sailer's. I can only guess whether or not he would have followed Steve in selling out.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

    I’d bet if Francis saw it, his initial reaction would have been similar to Steve Sailer’s. I can only guess whether or not he would have followed Steve in selling out.

    I don’t get it. Steve is an honest man, a genius, and a nonpseudonymous hero. When did he sell out? What did he sell?

    Whatever it was, Steve must not have gotten much money for it.

    If Steve has sold out, then I’d like to sell out with him. Wouldn’t you?

    • Replies: @Alexander Turok
    @V. K. Ovelund

    He sold out. He refuses to condemn the corona deniers because they send him money.


    But they likely had comorbidities such as hypertension, so no big loss (according to numerous paragons of health). - Pre-Sellout Steve
     
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/paul-and-lidia-marino-rip
  62. Yeah this does not at all prove I was right about everyone going crazy. There was a flu 5 months ago so they’ve all turned into Howard Hughes. It’s completely nuts.

    There has to be some psychological displacement going on here (or whatever the term was). Like people in California concentrating their anxiety on the rainforest so they can vent it without having to think about earthquakes.

    At any rate, opinion polls are not the end all be all. This polling data doesn’t fit what I’m seeing at all in terms of behavior. Although it does among women probably.

    What I am seeing is probably 80-90% of all the women are masked now and only about 10-20% of the men.

    Mask usage also seems to be highest among blacks, and lowest among whites. At least that’s how it looks to me.

    I am going Irish Democracy on this until the day I die. It’s only going to keep getting crazier from here.

    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
  63. @V. K. Ovelund
    @Alexander Turok


    I’d bet if Francis saw it, his initial reaction would have been similar to Steve Sailer’s. I can only guess whether or not he would have followed Steve in selling out.
     
    I don't get it. Steve is an honest man, a genius, and a nonpseudonymous hero. When did he sell out? What did he sell?

    Whatever it was, Steve must not have gotten much money for it.

    If Steve has sold out, then I'd like to sell out with him. Wouldn't you?

    Replies: @Alexander Turok

    He sold out. He refuses to condemn the corona deniers because they send him money.

    But they likely had comorbidities such as hypertension, so no big loss (according to numerous paragons of health). – Pre-Sellout Steve

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/paul-and-lidia-marino-rip

  64. Anonymous[366] • Disclaimer says:

    I wonder if where you live and your age reflects your views on mask wearing more accurately than education.
    My home county is very rural and, outside of the stores in the one big “city” (pop. c. 20K), I rarely see anyone wearing a mask; if I do, it invariably appears to be someone in his or her twenties. I’ve never seen teens wearing masks and they are the ones most likely to out and about in groups of unrelated individuals. No one older than about 30 seems to bother with a mask, either. Deliverymen all seem to wear a neckerchief that they pull up into a cowboy desperado mask before entering a building, although quite often they forget and leave it down.
    I dropped by the post office this morning and the post mistress had a mask around her neck, but neither of the two customers wore masks as they gossiped with her and each other.
    The clerk at the general store next door was outside smoking a cigarette, maskless. A young woman with a boy about five years old, both maskless, went into the store and did their shopping while he took his last few puffs and ambled back inside to ring up their purchases.
    The county deputy pulled up in his Jeep just as the woman and her boy came out. He had a mask down around his neck. The two began chatting while the boy climbed in the Jeep and fooled around. She leaned against the wall and he put his arm up and rested his hand on the wall while he leaned in to her as they talked. No social distance there.
    Some old people in the park across the way sat on a bench enjoying the sunshine, maskless. A dog wandered by, also maskless. He greeted everyone and got a pet in return. He went into the store and came back out with an old soup bone and trotted off.
    The throwaway weekly tabloid, which most people use to start fires with, had a screaming cover about Covid-19 and breathless stories inside about how county officials were handling the “crisis.” The editor had greeted the one and only death of a county resident from the Chinese flu, a 92-year-old woman in a nursing home, as if it had been a grand and glorious event, finally — finally — vindicating all the extreme measures being ordered on a skeptical and indifferent citizenry.

    • Replies: @Alexander Turok
    @Anonymous

    See Karlin: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/wearing-masks-as-iq-personality-test/

    Replies: @Cloudbuster

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Anonymous

    See people, now THAT'S a country! I don't know what you call the shitshow we have now.

    Thanks, #366 for the pick-me-up comment. I've got my stories in those links above. One of the things that shows the stupidity of this all is that I and plenty of others pull our masks down to talk when we want to be clear... from, like, 2 ft. away. I'm more worried about Social Disease than Social Distancing:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-93jphMpTM

    Don't forget, Elton had a serious rock band back then.

    , @dfordoom
    @Anonymous


    I’ve never seen teens wearing masks and they are the ones most likely to out and about in groups of unrelated individuals. No one older than about 30 seems to bother with a mask, either.
     
    Yep. The Corona Panic seems to be very specific to the 20 to 30 age group. With some women in the 30-35 bracket. That's certainly the situation in my part of Australia. You see a few older people with masks but I suspect they've been bullied into it. It's the twenty-somethings who are the True Believers.

    Which is not surprising. Young people seem to be naturally inclined to anxiety. If you run into a Climate Change True Believer they're also more likely to be in the younger age brackets. Young people are always worrying about the End of the World. It's part of being young.

    Young people are also very much more inclined to fanaticism. They're naturally over-emotional. They not only think the world needs saving, they want to force others into joining their crusade.

    Replies: @Marty

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @Anonymous

    A dog wandered by, also maskless.

    Ha!

  65. @dfordoom
    @unit472


    The point is, with a new infectious disease of unknown lethality on the loose it is better to suffer a short sharp disruption of life and get it under control than to allow the virus to spread throughout the country and endure months or years of restrictions. Business can endure a few weeks under lockdown conditions but not a long pandemic. Airlines, hotels, restaurants, hair salons and so much else will have been bankrupted by the time we get this virus under control ( if we ever do).
     
    I tend to agree. The biggest failure of western governments was that they acted much too slowly, and at first half-heartedly. A short sharp lockdown and we could have avoided all this misery. But idiots like Trump kept insisting that there was no problem. When you're not sure how serious a virus is going to turn out to be, stomp it hard and fast.

    Replies: @anon, @Lars Porsena, @Chrisnonymous

    Dude. Look at New Zealand.

    We’ll see if they ever escape it.

    Some countries are done with this already. NZ is not one.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Lars Porsena

    The solution is to admit that Trump is right and HCQ works (1)


    The latest international testing of hydroxychloroquine treatment of coronavirus shows countries that had early use of the drug had a 79% lower mortality rate than countries that banned the use of the safe malaria drug.

    This means that Dr. Fauci, Dr. Birx, the CDC, the liberal fake news media and the tech giants have been pushing a lie that has had deadly consequences!

    America has lost (reportedly) over 150,000 lives.

    And that could have been lowered by nearly 80% if HCQ use would have been promoted in the US!
     
    Science denial by the SJW Globalist DNC in service to Big Pharma is costing lives.
    _____

    Are you going to take an inadequately tested vaccine made by Big Pharma? Make sure that your Will is up to date...

    PEACE 😇
    _______

    (1) https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/08/jail-fauci-massive-international-study-shows-countries-early-hcq-use-79-lower-mortality-rate-huge-talking-120000-american-lives/
    .
    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/plot1ax-600x371.jpg
  66. @Franz
    Curious.

    How come postgrads are more likely than oldsters (by a dozen points!)?

    Got an 82 year old neighbor who still works and hasn't missed a day since the mask crap began. He ain't worried or sick.

    What's the hi-IQ crowd message here? Or are they once again proving how correct Orwell was when he said some things are so stupid you have to be a university graduate to believe it?

    Replies: @dfordoom, @anon, @V. K. Ovelund, @Charlotte, @Audacious Epigone

    In addition to the other factors mentioned by commenters, a lot of people with postgraduate degrees are progressives, or want to be seen as such by their friends and family. Objecting to mask wearing has become something of a conservative phenomenon; the sort of thing a Deplorable would do. Don’t underestimate the extent to which masks have become political theater.

    • Replies: @Franz
    @Charlotte


    Don’t underestimate the extent to which masks have become political theater.

     

    You're right, actually everyone who replied rang one bell or another.

    But your point worries me the most. It's one thing to go along with a crowd a bit, quite another to begin seeing a group mind at work. The late Joe Sobran called it The Hive and maybe he died before he realized how right he was.

    And when I first read stuff by Joe back in the 90s we thought he was exaggerating just a bit. Knock me in the head for that. Joe was being more polite than any of us thought.
  67. Masks gone by spring, regardless of who wins. Human patience is not infinite.

  68. @Lars Porsena
    @dfordoom

    Dude. Look at New Zealand.

    We'll see if they ever escape it.

    Some countries are done with this already. NZ is not one.

    Replies: @A123

    The solution is to admit that Trump is right and HCQ works (1)

    The latest international testing of hydroxychloroquine treatment of coronavirus shows countries that had early use of the drug had a 79% lower mortality rate than countries that banned the use of the safe malaria drug.

    This means that Dr. Fauci, Dr. Birx, the CDC, the liberal fake news media and the tech giants have been pushing a lie that has had deadly consequences!

    America has lost (reportedly) over 150,000 lives.

    And that could have been lowered by nearly 80% if HCQ use would have been promoted in the US!

    Science denial by the SJW Globalist DNC in service to Big Pharma is costing lives.
    _____

    Are you going to take an inadequately tested vaccine made by Big Pharma? Make sure that your Will is up to date…

    PEACE 😇
    _______

    (1) https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/08/jail-fauci-massive-international-study-shows-countries-early-hcq-use-79-lower-mortality-rate-huge-talking-120000-american-lives/
    .

  69. @Ugetit
    @Cloudbuster


    I am extraordinarily skeptical that China’s actual Wuhan Flu death numbers are anywhere near as low as they are claiming. China has zero transparency and a reputation for blatant willingness to lie.
     
    I am extraordinarily skeptical about anything promoted by big media and am willing to bet that most people outside of China who nonetheless feel compelled to yammer on about China, know about as much about it as I do which is to say, darned little. Additionally the kings and queens of lying are US and Israelis in positions of power, at least in my experience. Furthermore, they can be relied upon to project their faults onto others.

    Replies: @Cloudbuster

    I’ve done business in China. When we got calls from one of our hardware suppliers that the Chinese were trying to buy our proprietary NICs (obviously to reverse engineer our product) that was the beginning of my awakening about China. We wouldn’t even have needed copy protection on our products if it wasn’t for China. Damned bunch of crooks. Then a number of years back they shipped contaminated baby food and pet food to the US. Animals died because of it, but I think, fortunately, no babies did.

    Everyone I know who has done work in China has stories to tell about their rampant lying and dishonesty, especially to outsiders.

  70. @Realist
    The Republicans...the group with the least favorability to mandatory mask wearing...missed majority favorability by two percent.

    An overwhelming majority of Americans do not merely condone and want to see encouraged the use of masks, they want it made and kept mandatory. Refraining from burning down buildings and assaulting people in the street is not mandatory, but breathing in your stagnant midday breath with a cloth strapped across your face is. Got it? For those who don’t, we have the cops and the mob to straighten you out. Anarcho-tyranny is here–and most people love it.
     
    This country is full of fucking idiots.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    This country is full of fucking idiots.

    I’ll go ahead and expand that to the entire Western world, save Sweden.

  71. @LondonBob
    I am surprised the business lobby isn't more vocal protesting these measures. Definitely here there is a segment of the population that was hysterical about Brexit, Trump and now Covid, definitely a mental thing. Here the government messed up big time and perseveres with these ludicrous restrictions to cover up their failures.

    Good polls for Trump by Trafalgar.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Alexander Turok

    Clevons tend to be attracted to something-for-nothing solutions. If one man tells the Clevon he has two choices, both of which are gonna be painful, and another man says there’s a something-for-nothing solution, he’s gonna follow the second man. He wonders why all those people are undergoing painful, expensive surgeries for cancer when you can get a painless cancer cure on the internet for 20$.

    Business owners tend to be smart, at least relatively. So they see two painful tradeoffs, more lockdown or more spread. While there are a few intelligent critics of the lockdowns who make the case that the costs of the former exceed the latter, for the most part the critics are Clevons who want to get something for nothing. Those people tend to fail when they go into business.

  72. @unit472
    I'll be the devil's advocate here and support masks/lockdowns. China got on top of THEIR virus fast. They did so by really locking down Wuhan. Since the gestation period of their virus was 10-14 days and it was mostly contained in Wuhan they are now basically fighting the blowback from their conscious decision to allow their virus to infect the rest of the world.

    The point is, with a new infectious disease of unknown lethality on the loose it is better to suffer a short sharp disruption of life and get it under control than to allow the virus to spread throughout the country and endure months or years of restrictions. Business can endure a few weeks under lockdown conditions but not a long pandemic. Airlines, hotels, restaurants, hair salons and so much else will have been bankrupted by the time we get this virus under control ( if we ever do).

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Realist, @Cloudbuster, @Diversity Heretic, @dfordoom, @Rosie

    Airlines, hotels, restaurants, hair salons and so much else will have been bankrupted by the time we get this virus under control ( if we ever do).

    My theory is that special interests are to blame. Lockdown should have been swift and absolute, but special interests (being more aware and organized) dictated the initial response, massively spreading and prolonging the pain, well before the public even knew there was a serious debate going on.

    In particular, I blame airlines, professional sports, and I don’t know who else. They may come to regret their short-sightedness and tunnel vision.

    Or, it could all be a great big big hoax. There is really nothing I would put past these people.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Rosie


    My theory is that special interests are to blame. Lockdown should have been swift and absolute, but special interests (being more aware and organized) dictated the initial response, massively spreading and prolonging the pain, well before the public even knew there was a serious debate going on.
     
    Yep, I agree.
  73. @anon
    @Franz

    How come postgrads are more likely than oldsters (by a dozen points!)?

    Joe Biden's wife has a PhD. It's in Education, but she still insists on being called "Doctor". A fair number of those are handed out every year. Ditto English and other subjects. I once met a "Doctor" who had a PhD in technical writing.

    I also know multiple professional people with Master's degrees in things like Education, Counseling, Social Work, and so forth. Actual rigorous post-grads are a minority as far as I can tell.

    Replies: @Realist, @TomSchmidt

    Is it a PhD or an EdD? I made the mistake once of calling a PhD in Education an EdD; she let me know in no uncertain terms that she was a PhD. The latter is entitled to be called doctor (from Latin, docere, to teach), but they’re not the most respected people deserving of that title.

  74. @Achmed E. Newman
    @unit472

    Do you think this virus will just stay bottled up and gone, from all of China (even with 2-week quarantine strictly-controlled travel) and anywhere that hard-core procedure are or have been in place? Viruses don't work like that. They will get to everyone, but the problem is in how potent a mutation. As my specialist friend heard from his I.D. (Infectious Disease) doctor friend months ago, "hey do you know anyone who's not gotten the common cold?"

    What would have happened to the AIDS virus if all the homos in the world had been LOCKED down, without their "buddies"? What would have happened to the virus - would it have gone from the face of the earth? (BTW, I agree that the many years of that narrative that AIDS can hit anyone was a great disservice to anyone who likes getting laid.)

    The most virulent strains are being put off in some place into the future. I don't even know if they will come out ahead on ACTUAL deaths FROM this COVID-19 at all. (Of course, for governments it's all about incentives in how you log deaths. Need to get the numbers down? Sure, let's get the insurance companies to remove the co-pay and deductible waivers they've had for the Trump Administration the last 6 months. What else do ya' need?)

    As commenter Digital Samizdat wrote: "If this were the Black Plague, we wouldn't be arguing if this were the Black Plague or not." Excellent way to put it. I don't even know a single soul who's gotten this thing for sure, I mean gotten actually sick, much less anyone who has died from it. I know nobody who knows anyone who's died from it.

    The amount of perspective one gains in life and the ability to not go into hysterics based on 6 months of 24/7 Infotainment is not a political effort. It's just being a responsible man.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Adam Smith, @Whitney

    What would have happened to the AIDS virus if all the homos in the world had been LOCKED down, without their “buddies”? What would have happened to the virus – would it have gone from the face of the earth?

    Probably yes. AIDS was unusual – an infectious disease that is very very non-infectious. You really had to work overtime to catch AIDS. It was a case of a virus that really could have been eliminated entirely in very short order. Even by the standards of sexually transmitted diseases AIDS was incredibly difficult to spread by sexual contact. Apart from using IV drugs you could only get it by indulging in frequent sodomy. It was and is virtually impossible to catch by normal heterosexual sex (heterosexual sodomy is most definitely not normal).

    Never in history has there been an infectious disease that would have been so trivially easy to eradicate. The only way that it could possibly fail to have been eradicated was by encouraging male homosexuals to continue indulging in promiscuous sodomy. And that’s what governments did – encouraged male homosexuals to continue with the very practices that spread the disease. And governments failed to isolate and quarantine infected populations.

    It was an epic governmental failure. Fortunately non-pervert heterosexuals and non-drug addicts did not have to pay the price for this failure.

    COVID was obviously going to be very much more difficult to bring under control, but with the accumulated experience of dealing with various other viruses there was a chance it could have been stamped out. What the fuck do we have governments for if not to deal with crises such as this?

    We were incredibly lucky that COVID turned out to be not very lethal at all. We might not be so lucky next time.

    Just as a matter of interest, from a libertarian perspective, how exactly do you think governments should respond in future if a really nasty virus emerges? Should we all close our eyes and chant, “It’s just the flu bro?”

    • Replies: @songbird
    @dfordoom

    I wonder how many people HIV would have killed in a world where the word "homosexual" had never been coined. And oddly enough it is not one of the forbidden words.

    , @Mark G.
    @dfordoom


    Just as a matter of interest, from a libertarian perspective, how exactly do you think governments should respond in future if a really nasty virus emerges?
     
    Rather than thinking about how libertarians would respond to a really serious epidemic, I've been thinking about how non-libertarians would respond. There's been a mass panic over a disease that so far has caused the deaths of less than one in every thousand people here in the United States and that one out of a thousand is typically an eighty year old with serious health problems.

    The only reaction that came close to this was during the 1918 Spanish flu. Adjusted for population, that caused the deaths of several times as many people. It also killed large numbers of younger people so total years of life lost may have been thirty or forty times as much. So we reacted in much the same way to Covid-19 as people a hundred years ago did to something that was a far greater threat. If there was such a hysterical reaction over something like this, what would happen if something like the Spanish flu came along now?

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

  75. @Achmed E. Newman
    @dfordoom


    But at the beginning it looked pretty serious.
     
    On TV, it probably did! So what? I know enough of how much lying goes on in the Legacy Media that I don't believe much that I don't already know makes some sense.

    You are quite right that Western governments can't seem to focus and get things done. That used to be a very good thing, as they'd end up just leaving us the f__k alone to solve problems ourselves. OK, don't bring up wartime. The way America's (probably Australia's too) armed forces are nothing but a big social experiment now, I wouldn't expect much. (Perhaps that's for the best too, depending on the enemy. I am a patriot for the American Constitution, but that's as far as I go.)

    Again, you're not going to eliminate the damn virus. Do you think China has eliminated the virus in their country?

    Replies: @dfordoom

    You are quite right that Western governments can’t seem to focus and get things done. That used to be a very good thing, as they’d end up just leaving us the f__k alone to solve problems ourselves.

    I generally sort of agree. There are many areas of life which governments have no business getting involved in. Governments routinely expend money and energy trying to solve non-existent problems, or trying to solve problems that are real but are problems that governments can simply never solve. To a very large extent I’d prefer the government to get the hell out of people’s private lives.

    But it’s a worry that we now know that if a problem does arise that we cannot solve ourselves (and such problems do exist and pandemics are one of those problems) our governments are incapable of dealing with such problems.

    The way America’s (probably Australia’s too) armed forces are nothing but a big social experiment now, I wouldn’t expect much. (Perhaps that’s for the best too,

    I agree. The less efficient our military forces are the better. If the US military becomes totally incapable of fighting its way out of a wet paper bag that would be a very good thing for the whole world (and would be a very good thing for Americans since it would discourage the US Government from getting mixed up in other nations’ affairs). And since the sole purpose of the Australian military is to fight in America’s damn fool wars I’d be delighted to see the Australian military become as inefficient as possible.

    The only problem is that our increasingly useless militaries are going to remain very profitable for the parasitical “defence” industry so they’re going to continue to cost us money. And they’re going to continue to corrupt our political systems.

    • Disagree: iffen
  76. @dfordoom
    @Achmed E. Newman


    What would have happened to the AIDS virus if all the homos in the world had been LOCKED down, without their “buddies”? What would have happened to the virus – would it have gone from the face of the earth?
     
    Probably yes. AIDS was unusual - an infectious disease that is very very non-infectious. You really had to work overtime to catch AIDS. It was a case of a virus that really could have been eliminated entirely in very short order. Even by the standards of sexually transmitted diseases AIDS was incredibly difficult to spread by sexual contact. Apart from using IV drugs you could only get it by indulging in frequent sodomy. It was and is virtually impossible to catch by normal heterosexual sex (heterosexual sodomy is most definitely not normal).

    Never in history has there been an infectious disease that would have been so trivially easy to eradicate. The only way that it could possibly fail to have been eradicated was by encouraging male homosexuals to continue indulging in promiscuous sodomy. And that's what governments did - encouraged male homosexuals to continue with the very practices that spread the disease. And governments failed to isolate and quarantine infected populations.

    It was an epic governmental failure. Fortunately non-pervert heterosexuals and non-drug addicts did not have to pay the price for this failure.

    COVID was obviously going to be very much more difficult to bring under control, but with the accumulated experience of dealing with various other viruses there was a chance it could have been stamped out. What the fuck do we have governments for if not to deal with crises such as this?

    We were incredibly lucky that COVID turned out to be not very lethal at all. We might not be so lucky next time.

    Just as a matter of interest, from a libertarian perspective, how exactly do you think governments should respond in future if a really nasty virus emerges? Should we all close our eyes and chant, "It's just the flu bro?"

    Replies: @songbird, @Mark G.

    I wonder how many people HIV would have killed in a world where the word “homosexual” had never been coined. And oddly enough it is not one of the forbidden words.

  77. @anon
    Australian cops in Victoria arrest pregnant mother for trying to organize anti-lockdown rally via Facebook. Includes video streamed of the arrest.

    Anyone around from Oz who would care to explain this event? Anyone? Bueller?

    https://gizmodo.com/woman-arrested-for-facebook-post-promoting-anti-lockdow-1844926107

    Replies: @dfordoom

    Australian cops in Victoria arrest pregnant mother for trying to organize anti-lockdown rally via Facebook. Includes video streamed of the arrest.

    Anyone around from Oz who would care to explain this event? Anyone? Bueller?

    Victoria is a weird place. They’ve gone much much further down the paths of degeneracy and decadence and totalitarianism than the rest of the country. What’s happening in Victoria at the moment is exactly what I’d expect to see happening there.

    Forget it Jake. It’s Victoria.

  78. I saw a new yard sign this week. It said

    wear a mask
    save a life

    All these women in their fashion masks want this. It makes them feel safe and that’s the highest good for them

    • Replies: @Alexander Turok
    @Whitney

    Still mad mommy took away your BB gun?

  79. @usNthem
    The mask crap is not going away anytime soon, and for some percentage of the population, it never will. On my morning walk today on our nice wide neighborhood street, a woman coming the opposite direction, on the other side of the road, paused to put on her mask before we passed. These people are insane.

    Replies: @Whitney

    Every time I see a white person wearing a mask on the street I think you are lost to me and your people forever

  80. @Whitney
    I saw a new yard sign this week. It said

    wear a mask
    save a life

    All these women in their fashion masks want this. It makes them feel safe and that's the highest good for them

    Replies: @Alexander Turok

    Still mad mommy took away your BB gun?

  81. @Anonymous
    I wonder if where you live and your age reflects your views on mask wearing more accurately than education.
    My home county is very rural and, outside of the stores in the one big "city" (pop. c. 20K), I rarely see anyone wearing a mask; if I do, it invariably appears to be someone in his or her twenties. I've never seen teens wearing masks and they are the ones most likely to out and about in groups of unrelated individuals. No one older than about 30 seems to bother with a mask, either. Deliverymen all seem to wear a neckerchief that they pull up into a cowboy desperado mask before entering a building, although quite often they forget and leave it down.
    I dropped by the post office this morning and the post mistress had a mask around her neck, but neither of the two customers wore masks as they gossiped with her and each other.
    The clerk at the general store next door was outside smoking a cigarette, maskless. A young woman with a boy about five years old, both maskless, went into the store and did their shopping while he took his last few puffs and ambled back inside to ring up their purchases.
    The county deputy pulled up in his Jeep just as the woman and her boy came out. He had a mask down around his neck. The two began chatting while the boy climbed in the Jeep and fooled around. She leaned against the wall and he put his arm up and rested his hand on the wall while he leaned in to her as they talked. No social distance there.
    Some old people in the park across the way sat on a bench enjoying the sunshine, maskless. A dog wandered by, also maskless. He greeted everyone and got a pet in return. He went into the store and came back out with an old soup bone and trotted off.
    The throwaway weekly tabloid, which most people use to start fires with, had a screaming cover about Covid-19 and breathless stories inside about how county officials were handling the "crisis." The editor had greeted the one and only death of a county resident from the Chinese flu, a 92-year-old woman in a nursing home, as if it had been a grand and glorious event, finally -- finally -- vindicating all the extreme measures being ordered on a skeptical and indifferent citizenry.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok, @Achmed E. Newman, @dfordoom, @Audacious Epigone

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    @Alexander Turok

    Alexander Turok's favorite logical fallacy is obviously the Genetic Fallacy. He is absolutely obsessed with the nature of people who oppose mask wearing. If his actual fact-based arguments for masks were very convincing, he would never need to resort to that.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok

  82. @Alexander Turok
    @Anonymous

    See Karlin: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/wearing-masks-as-iq-personality-test/

    Replies: @Cloudbuster

    Alexander Turok’s favorite logical fallacy is obviously the Genetic Fallacy. He is absolutely obsessed with the nature of people who oppose mask wearing. If his actual fact-based arguments for masks were very convincing, he would never need to resort to that.

    • Replies: @Alexander Turok
    @Cloudbuster

    Is it also the "genetic fallacy" if you don't take career advice from the hobo on the street? If you don't take foreign policy advice from people who cheerled the Iraq war? I'm not too interested in hearing the opinions on coronavirus of a bunch of people who haven't done any math since they failed high school algebra.

    Replies: @Cloudbuster

  83. @Anonymous
    I wonder if where you live and your age reflects your views on mask wearing more accurately than education.
    My home county is very rural and, outside of the stores in the one big "city" (pop. c. 20K), I rarely see anyone wearing a mask; if I do, it invariably appears to be someone in his or her twenties. I've never seen teens wearing masks and they are the ones most likely to out and about in groups of unrelated individuals. No one older than about 30 seems to bother with a mask, either. Deliverymen all seem to wear a neckerchief that they pull up into a cowboy desperado mask before entering a building, although quite often they forget and leave it down.
    I dropped by the post office this morning and the post mistress had a mask around her neck, but neither of the two customers wore masks as they gossiped with her and each other.
    The clerk at the general store next door was outside smoking a cigarette, maskless. A young woman with a boy about five years old, both maskless, went into the store and did their shopping while he took his last few puffs and ambled back inside to ring up their purchases.
    The county deputy pulled up in his Jeep just as the woman and her boy came out. He had a mask down around his neck. The two began chatting while the boy climbed in the Jeep and fooled around. She leaned against the wall and he put his arm up and rested his hand on the wall while he leaned in to her as they talked. No social distance there.
    Some old people in the park across the way sat on a bench enjoying the sunshine, maskless. A dog wandered by, also maskless. He greeted everyone and got a pet in return. He went into the store and came back out with an old soup bone and trotted off.
    The throwaway weekly tabloid, which most people use to start fires with, had a screaming cover about Covid-19 and breathless stories inside about how county officials were handling the "crisis." The editor had greeted the one and only death of a county resident from the Chinese flu, a 92-year-old woman in a nursing home, as if it had been a grand and glorious event, finally -- finally -- vindicating all the extreme measures being ordered on a skeptical and indifferent citizenry.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok, @Achmed E. Newman, @dfordoom, @Audacious Epigone

    See people, now THAT’S a country! I don’t know what you call the shitshow we have now.

    Thanks, #366 for the pick-me-up comment. I’ve got my stories in those links above. One of the things that shows the stupidity of this all is that I and plenty of others pull our masks down to talk when we want to be clear… from, like, 2 ft. away. I’m more worried about Social Disease than Social Distancing:

    Don’t forget, Elton had a serious rock band back then.

  84. @Cloudbuster
    @Alexander Turok

    Alexander Turok's favorite logical fallacy is obviously the Genetic Fallacy. He is absolutely obsessed with the nature of people who oppose mask wearing. If his actual fact-based arguments for masks were very convincing, he would never need to resort to that.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok

    Is it also the “genetic fallacy” if you don’t take career advice from the hobo on the street? If you don’t take foreign policy advice from people who cheerled the Iraq war? I’m not too interested in hearing the opinions on coronavirus of a bunch of people who haven’t done any math since they failed high school algebra.

    • Troll: usNthem
    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    @Alexander Turok

    And he proves my point yet again.

  85. @Alexander Turok
    @Cloudbuster

    Is it also the "genetic fallacy" if you don't take career advice from the hobo on the street? If you don't take foreign policy advice from people who cheerled the Iraq war? I'm not too interested in hearing the opinions on coronavirus of a bunch of people who haven't done any math since they failed high school algebra.

    Replies: @Cloudbuster

    And he proves my point yet again.

  86. @Anonymous
    I wonder if where you live and your age reflects your views on mask wearing more accurately than education.
    My home county is very rural and, outside of the stores in the one big "city" (pop. c. 20K), I rarely see anyone wearing a mask; if I do, it invariably appears to be someone in his or her twenties. I've never seen teens wearing masks and they are the ones most likely to out and about in groups of unrelated individuals. No one older than about 30 seems to bother with a mask, either. Deliverymen all seem to wear a neckerchief that they pull up into a cowboy desperado mask before entering a building, although quite often they forget and leave it down.
    I dropped by the post office this morning and the post mistress had a mask around her neck, but neither of the two customers wore masks as they gossiped with her and each other.
    The clerk at the general store next door was outside smoking a cigarette, maskless. A young woman with a boy about five years old, both maskless, went into the store and did their shopping while he took his last few puffs and ambled back inside to ring up their purchases.
    The county deputy pulled up in his Jeep just as the woman and her boy came out. He had a mask down around his neck. The two began chatting while the boy climbed in the Jeep and fooled around. She leaned against the wall and he put his arm up and rested his hand on the wall while he leaned in to her as they talked. No social distance there.
    Some old people in the park across the way sat on a bench enjoying the sunshine, maskless. A dog wandered by, also maskless. He greeted everyone and got a pet in return. He went into the store and came back out with an old soup bone and trotted off.
    The throwaway weekly tabloid, which most people use to start fires with, had a screaming cover about Covid-19 and breathless stories inside about how county officials were handling the "crisis." The editor had greeted the one and only death of a county resident from the Chinese flu, a 92-year-old woman in a nursing home, as if it had been a grand and glorious event, finally -- finally -- vindicating all the extreme measures being ordered on a skeptical and indifferent citizenry.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok, @Achmed E. Newman, @dfordoom, @Audacious Epigone

    I’ve never seen teens wearing masks and they are the ones most likely to out and about in groups of unrelated individuals. No one older than about 30 seems to bother with a mask, either.

    Yep. The Corona Panic seems to be very specific to the 20 to 30 age group. With some women in the 30-35 bracket. That’s certainly the situation in my part of Australia. You see a few older people with masks but I suspect they’ve been bullied into it. It’s the twenty-somethings who are the True Believers.

    Which is not surprising. Young people seem to be naturally inclined to anxiety. If you run into a Climate Change True Believer they’re also more likely to be in the younger age brackets. Young people are always worrying about the End of the World. It’s part of being young.

    Young people are also very much more inclined to fanaticism. They’re naturally over-emotional. They not only think the world needs saving, they want to force others into joining their crusade.

    • Replies: @Marty
    @dfordoom

    Totally wrong. I don’t know about the sticks, but here in Cyra McFadden County you’d have a hard time finding anyone between 40-75 not wearing a mask, even while taking a leisurely stroll alone or with a spouse. The way I figure, the people who’ve made it so luv luv luv their incredibly sweet lives that they’ll gladly endure any inconvenience just so they can be around long enough to see their house value rise to $4 million.

  87. @Achmed E. Newman
    I never would have expected numbers that high. It is a simple, straightforward question too, with no leeway for interpretation, so this is very sad. I've always supported the American people as opposed to supporting the Feral Gov't (many people confuse the two), but maybe it's time to quit caring about em as a whole.

    There aren't many men of principle anymore, much less women (never were many of the latter - it's not their thing). It's makes me wonder when I read insults like "muh Constitution" how the writers cannot know how this always turns out. Almost 2 decades ago the Security Theater of the TSA cranked up, and now we have the Heathcare Theater of the CDC. Do you think either one will be ended? Never - your Authoritahs know what's best for you, the way all you people on those bars in the graph act.

    This is truly a nation of pussies, although I'll give Australia the # 1 spot. (Hello, DforDoom, enjoying this?) Peak Stupidity, having some perspective, has railed on this madness since March. The nation had an intermission in the Infotainment Panic-Fest with the riots, but now Season 2 has been airing. The big change is from "this Plague can live on doorknobs for 8 1/2 weeks!" to "it can spread through farts now! Put a mask on it!"

    Now, with even the CDC admitting that only 6% of the deaths of people WITH COVID-19 were FROM that virus ALONE, (see "Vindication, Bitchez!"), how are governments going to walk this back. They won't. They might even double down, just to show who's boss.




    Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4*, Part 5, Part 6, Part 7, Part 8, Part 9, and Part 10. (Almost all are about the wearing of face masks, the most obvious signal of one's stupidity.)

    ,

    * Part 4 NSFW unless you work from home and your wife doesn't.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @MBlanc46

    It is indeed a sad commentary on the state of the American nation.

  88. @Rosie
    @unit472


    Airlines, hotels, restaurants, hair salons and so much else will have been bankrupted by the time we get this virus under control ( if we ever do).
     
    My theory is that special interests are to blame. Lockdown should have been swift and absolute, but special interests (being more aware and organized) dictated the initial response, massively spreading and prolonging the pain, well before the public even knew there was a serious debate going on.

    In particular, I blame airlines, professional sports, and I don't know who else. They may come to regret their short-sightedness and tunnel vision.

    Or, it could all be a great big big hoax. There is really nothing I would put past these people.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    My theory is that special interests are to blame. Lockdown should have been swift and absolute, but special interests (being more aware and organized) dictated the initial response, massively spreading and prolonging the pain, well before the public even knew there was a serious debate going on.

    Yep, I agree.

  89. @dfordoom
    @Achmed E. Newman


    What would have happened to the AIDS virus if all the homos in the world had been LOCKED down, without their “buddies”? What would have happened to the virus – would it have gone from the face of the earth?
     
    Probably yes. AIDS was unusual - an infectious disease that is very very non-infectious. You really had to work overtime to catch AIDS. It was a case of a virus that really could have been eliminated entirely in very short order. Even by the standards of sexually transmitted diseases AIDS was incredibly difficult to spread by sexual contact. Apart from using IV drugs you could only get it by indulging in frequent sodomy. It was and is virtually impossible to catch by normal heterosexual sex (heterosexual sodomy is most definitely not normal).

    Never in history has there been an infectious disease that would have been so trivially easy to eradicate. The only way that it could possibly fail to have been eradicated was by encouraging male homosexuals to continue indulging in promiscuous sodomy. And that's what governments did - encouraged male homosexuals to continue with the very practices that spread the disease. And governments failed to isolate and quarantine infected populations.

    It was an epic governmental failure. Fortunately non-pervert heterosexuals and non-drug addicts did not have to pay the price for this failure.

    COVID was obviously going to be very much more difficult to bring under control, but with the accumulated experience of dealing with various other viruses there was a chance it could have been stamped out. What the fuck do we have governments for if not to deal with crises such as this?

    We were incredibly lucky that COVID turned out to be not very lethal at all. We might not be so lucky next time.

    Just as a matter of interest, from a libertarian perspective, how exactly do you think governments should respond in future if a really nasty virus emerges? Should we all close our eyes and chant, "It's just the flu bro?"

    Replies: @songbird, @Mark G.

    Just as a matter of interest, from a libertarian perspective, how exactly do you think governments should respond in future if a really nasty virus emerges?

    Rather than thinking about how libertarians would respond to a really serious epidemic, I’ve been thinking about how non-libertarians would respond. There’s been a mass panic over a disease that so far has caused the deaths of less than one in every thousand people here in the United States and that one out of a thousand is typically an eighty year old with serious health problems.

    The only reaction that came close to this was during the 1918 Spanish flu. Adjusted for population, that caused the deaths of several times as many people. It also killed large numbers of younger people so total years of life lost may have been thirty or forty times as much. So we reacted in much the same way to Covid-19 as people a hundred years ago did to something that was a far greater threat. If there was such a hysterical reaction over something like this, what would happen if something like the Spanish flu came along now?

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    @Mark G.

    It's exactly the opposite.

    If there had been a serious epidemic, none of the ridiculous political theater we've been subjected to would have been possible. There would have been real leadership and sensible policies and real obedience on the part of a population who understood what needed to be done.

    But from the very beginning, the Covid-19 hysteria has been all cosplay from first to last. The hysteria grew and spread precisely because there was never a serious threat and, in the back of their minds, everybody knew all along that there was never a serious threat. That's what makes the mask Nazis and lockdown enthusiasts so odious. They know God damn well that there is no point to any of this, but the temptation to seize some fleeting social importance is just too much to resist.

    Like the recent fascination with transsexualism, like QEternity, Covid-19ism is a cult that thrives only where it can be protected from encounters with reality. A real epidemic would instantly reveal it for the nonsense that it is.

  90. @Charlotte
    @Franz

    In addition to the other factors mentioned by commenters, a lot of people with postgraduate degrees are progressives, or want to be seen as such by their friends and family. Objecting to mask wearing has become something of a conservative phenomenon; the sort of thing a Deplorable would do. Don’t underestimate the extent to which masks have become political theater.

    Replies: @Franz

    Don’t underestimate the extent to which masks have become political theater.

    You’re right, actually everyone who replied rang one bell or another.

    But your point worries me the most. It’s one thing to go along with a crowd a bit, quite another to begin seeing a group mind at work. The late Joe Sobran called it The Hive and maybe he died before he realized how right he was.

    And when I first read stuff by Joe back in the 90s we thought he was exaggerating just a bit. Knock me in the head for that. Joe was being more polite than any of us thought.

  91. @V. K. Ovelund
    @Franz


    Curious.

    How come postgrads are more likely than oldsters (by a dozen points!)?
     

    A postgrad myself, I have never quite understood this. Is it just postgraduate vanity?

    The thing is, the majority of the postgrads I know (and I know plenty) are not especially vain—or else I am so unwittingly vain, myself, that I can no longer tell the difference.

    Yet almost every single time I see one of these polls in which advanced degrees correlate different attitudes than high-school diplomas do, my own attitudes track the high-school diplomas. I don't get it.

    I did not grow up in a working-class home. I did not marry into a working-class family. My kin are more likely to sign a paycheck than to receive one. I have spoken American English with a standard U.S.-business/Broadway-stage accent all my life and have only one relative with a tattoo. My war-veteran forebears were U.S. officers and nothing in my own appearance or bearing suggests otherwise as far as I know. Except that I am a bit of an underachiever compared to most of the family, I should be a nearly perfect candidate today to hold progressive elite attitudes, but I fail to grasp the point.

    If anyone here can explain it to me, I would be interested.

    Replies: @A123, @Vergissmeinnicht, @Intelligent Dasein, @Franz, @iffen

    A postgrad myself, I have never quite understood this. Is it just postgraduate vanity?

    I think dfordoom and anon above covered it well because I honestly had not thought of how “varied” academic standards really are. When I was in the navy and my work took me to the UK, a staff officer who’d earned a degree having “read at Oxford” for four years. I didn’t know what that meant, but it seems some people can just read and become an expert on subject a, b, or c and get a sheepskin for it. He read history, and had entire scads of military history in his head, including technical information. Trouble is, I’ve known non-college war buffs who were just as good and had no degree to show for it.

    Then there was Bill Cosby who got a doctorate for his “work” creating Fat Albert for the cartoons.

    I expect there are some real howlers in the creative degree biz. Tranny History? Improvised Riot Tactics from 1789 to the Present? The possibilities are endless.

    Right, vanity plus some high-sounding degrees add up to knowing how to bullshit.

  92. @Mark G.
    @dfordoom


    Just as a matter of interest, from a libertarian perspective, how exactly do you think governments should respond in future if a really nasty virus emerges?
     
    Rather than thinking about how libertarians would respond to a really serious epidemic, I've been thinking about how non-libertarians would respond. There's been a mass panic over a disease that so far has caused the deaths of less than one in every thousand people here in the United States and that one out of a thousand is typically an eighty year old with serious health problems.

    The only reaction that came close to this was during the 1918 Spanish flu. Adjusted for population, that caused the deaths of several times as many people. It also killed large numbers of younger people so total years of life lost may have been thirty or forty times as much. So we reacted in much the same way to Covid-19 as people a hundred years ago did to something that was a far greater threat. If there was such a hysterical reaction over something like this, what would happen if something like the Spanish flu came along now?

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    It’s exactly the opposite.

    If there had been a serious epidemic, none of the ridiculous political theater we’ve been subjected to would have been possible. There would have been real leadership and sensible policies and real obedience on the part of a population who understood what needed to be done.

    But from the very beginning, the Covid-19 hysteria has been all cosplay from first to last. The hysteria grew and spread precisely because there was never a serious threat and, in the back of their minds, everybody knew all along that there was never a serious threat. That’s what makes the mask Nazis and lockdown enthusiasts so odious. They know God damn well that there is no point to any of this, but the temptation to seize some fleeting social importance is just too much to resist.

    Like the recent fascination with transsexualism, like QEternity, Covid-19ism is a cult that thrives only where it can be protected from encounters with reality. A real epidemic would instantly reveal it for the nonsense that it is.

  93. @V. K. Ovelund
    @Franz


    Curious.

    How come postgrads are more likely than oldsters (by a dozen points!)?
     

    A postgrad myself, I have never quite understood this. Is it just postgraduate vanity?

    The thing is, the majority of the postgrads I know (and I know plenty) are not especially vain—or else I am so unwittingly vain, myself, that I can no longer tell the difference.

    Yet almost every single time I see one of these polls in which advanced degrees correlate different attitudes than high-school diplomas do, my own attitudes track the high-school diplomas. I don't get it.

    I did not grow up in a working-class home. I did not marry into a working-class family. My kin are more likely to sign a paycheck than to receive one. I have spoken American English with a standard U.S.-business/Broadway-stage accent all my life and have only one relative with a tattoo. My war-veteran forebears were U.S. officers and nothing in my own appearance or bearing suggests otherwise as far as I know. Except that I am a bit of an underachiever compared to most of the family, I should be a nearly perfect candidate today to hold progressive elite attitudes, but I fail to grasp the point.

    If anyone here can explain it to me, I would be interested.

    Replies: @A123, @Vergissmeinnicht, @Intelligent Dasein, @Franz, @iffen

    If anyone here can explain it to me, I would be interested.

    Maybe you are just “smarter” than the average bear.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @iffen


    Maybe you are just “smarter” than the average bear.
     
    Regrettably, it has here been proved that I am also more vain. In Will Rogers' proverbial hole, I ought to stop digging.

    Your answer is appreciated nevertheless. The question I should instead have asked is this: without self-doxxing, please, where do you fit with respect to the poll?

    Your reply (if any) would be read with interest.

    Replies: @iffen

  94. @Intelligent Dasein
    @V. K. Ovelund


    The thing is, the majority of the postgrads I know (and I know plenty) are not especially vain—or else I am so unwittingly vain, myself, that I can no longer tell the difference...

    ...If anyone here can explain it to me, I would be interested.
     
    Interrupting the thread in order to ask strangers on the internet to speculate about why your precious mental state is the way that it is, does seem a bit "unwittingly vain," if you don't mind me saying so. Maybe I don't give a shit. Maybe I came to this thread to talk about masks and Covid-19, as the title would suggest. Besides which, any putative answer would have to assume that your friends' wokeness and your lack of wokeness has a simple, explicable cause that can be set out in a short blog comment. I don't believe that is the case at all.

    However, speaking as a friend, I will tell you the general direction along which the answer lies: You are insensible to academic authority; that is why you got fired.

    And to supplement, I will only tell you again the same thing I told you once before. You need to do something with the gifts and opportunities you've been given. You don't need the strangers here to stroke your ego and tell you how tough and independent you are. You've already been predestined for toughness by the circumstances of your life. If God did not know you could handle it, He would not have let it befall you. So buck up, buttercup, and just do it. You can't soar with the eagles if you're fluttering around with the chickens on this blog.

    Of, and break off your love affair with dfordoom. He is an atheist Australian Corvinus 2.0 troll who contradicts everything not for knowledge's sake but just to be a peckerhead.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @iffen

    that can be set out in a short blog comment.

    How would you know what a short blog comment looks like?

  95. @iffen
    @V. K. Ovelund

    If anyone here can explain it to me, I would be interested.

    Maybe you are just "smarter" than the average bear.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

    Maybe you are just “smarter” than the average bear.

    Regrettably, it has here been proved that I am also more vain. In Will Rogers’ proverbial hole, I ought to stop digging.

    Your answer is appreciated nevertheless. The question I should instead have asked is this: without self-doxxing, please, where do you fit with respect to the poll?

    Your reply (if any) would be read with interest.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @V. K. Ovelund

    Male, B.S., white, age 70, Republican because it is the lesser of the two evils. (Changed from being a lifelong New Deal Democrat after Obama.)

    I wear a mask and encourage all in my family to wear one. I have no objections to mandated mask usage. I object to the conditions under which the Borg can say you are a criminal if you wear a mask and then a couple of months later declare you a criminal if you don't wear one.


    From Lapham's Quarterly:

    Lactantius, early father of the Christian church, says, “The only true and certain obligation is to feed the needy and useless...men may have no use for them, but God has.”
     
    I have always believed this, even more so after 50 years as an atheist. I have no remembrance of being anything other than an egalitarian and a universalist. I suspect that I was born this way.

    Replies: @Yahya K.

  96. @V. K. Ovelund
    @iffen


    Maybe you are just “smarter” than the average bear.
     
    Regrettably, it has here been proved that I am also more vain. In Will Rogers' proverbial hole, I ought to stop digging.

    Your answer is appreciated nevertheless. The question I should instead have asked is this: without self-doxxing, please, where do you fit with respect to the poll?

    Your reply (if any) would be read with interest.

    Replies: @iffen

    Male, B.S., white, age 70, Republican because it is the lesser of the two evils. (Changed from being a lifelong New Deal Democrat after Obama.)

    I wear a mask and encourage all in my family to wear one. I have no objections to mandated mask usage. I object to the conditions under which the Borg can say you are a criminal if you wear a mask and then a couple of months later declare you a criminal if you don’t wear one.

    From Lapham’s Quarterly:

    Lactantius, early father of the Christian church, says, “The only true and certain obligation is to feed the needy and useless…men may have no use for them, but God has.”

    I have always believed this, even more so after 50 years as an atheist. I have no remembrance of being anything other than an egalitarian and a universalist. I suspect that I was born this way.

    • Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
    • Replies: @Yahya K.
    @iffen


    From Lapham’s Quarterly:

    Lactantius, early father of the Christian church, says, “The only true and certain obligation is to feed the needy and useless…men may have no use for them, but God has.”

    I have always believed this, even more so after 50 years as an atheist. I have no remembrance of being anything other than an egalitarian and a universalist. I suspect that I was born this way.

     

    There's a similar sentiment found in Islam:


    One basic element in the value system of Islam is the principle of equality or equity. This value of equality is not to be mistaken for or confused with identicalness or stereotype. Islam teaches that in the sight of Allah Almighty, all people are equal, but they are not necessarily identical. There are differences of abilities, potentials, ambitions, wealth and so on.

    The limitations in these examples are natural. The social limitations are those imposed by society as a result of experience and practice; in the final analysis, they are intellectual attitudes related to the previously mentioned traits. There is, for instance, the established difference between the ignorant and the learned. No one would assign major responsibilities that are crucial to the community to an ignorant person.

    Yet, none of these differences can by themselves, establish the status of superiority of one man or race over another. The stock of man, the color of his skin, the amount of wealth he has and the degree of prestige he enjoys have no bearing on the character and personality of the individual as far as Allah is concerned. The only distinction, which Allah recognizes is the distinction in piety; the only criterion which Allah applies, is the criterion of goodness and spiritual excellence. In the Quran, Allah Almighty Says (what means): "O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female, and have made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Indeed the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted" [Quran 49:13] In another narration, the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allah exalt his mention ) was asked: "Who among men is most favored by Allah?' He, sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allah exalt his mention ) replied: "A man who does the most good to people." [At-Tabaraani ]

    Concepts of chosen and gentile peoples, words such as ‘privileged’ and ‘condemned’ races, expressions such as “social castes” and “citizens” will all become meaningless and obsolete. Prophet Muhammad sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allah exalt his mention ) said: "O mankind, your Lord is One and your father is one. You all descended from Aadam, and Aadam was created from earth. He is most honored among you in the sight of God who is most upright. No Arab is superior to a non-Arab, no colored person to a white person, or a white person to a colored person except by Taqwa (piety)." [Ahmad and At-Tirmithi ]


     

    Replies: @iffen

  97. The one strong point in favor of masks is that they let people open up again. The psycho left wanted to shut the economy down. Bill Gates talked about shutting the economy down **for years**!

    When the pandemic came many tradesmen did not miss a day of work, popping on a mask and then continuing on their way. It would be great if all those woke NBA players wore masks while they play, you know, to be a good example to us all.

    Unemployment is 8.4%. This is astonishing considering the economy was shut down the way it was.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/unemployment-rate-unexpedctedly-tumbles-august-payrolls-come-line

    My view has come to be that the left is a rabid dog that always needs something to bite. Masks are better than lockdowns, which are insane tyranny.

    The left will push destructively one way or another. Railing against climate change was actually good because people can shake their fist at the weather harmlessly and the weather won’t get ruined as a result. I much prefer that to the current fad of “actively promote crime.” I’d love to get the focus back on climate change because the rabid left can chew on that all day long without breaking the system.

  98. @Achmed E. Newman
    @unit472

    Do you think this virus will just stay bottled up and gone, from all of China (even with 2-week quarantine strictly-controlled travel) and anywhere that hard-core procedure are or have been in place? Viruses don't work like that. They will get to everyone, but the problem is in how potent a mutation. As my specialist friend heard from his I.D. (Infectious Disease) doctor friend months ago, "hey do you know anyone who's not gotten the common cold?"

    What would have happened to the AIDS virus if all the homos in the world had been LOCKED down, without their "buddies"? What would have happened to the virus - would it have gone from the face of the earth? (BTW, I agree that the many years of that narrative that AIDS can hit anyone was a great disservice to anyone who likes getting laid.)

    The most virulent strains are being put off in some place into the future. I don't even know if they will come out ahead on ACTUAL deaths FROM this COVID-19 at all. (Of course, for governments it's all about incentives in how you log deaths. Need to get the numbers down? Sure, let's get the insurance companies to remove the co-pay and deductible waivers they've had for the Trump Administration the last 6 months. What else do ya' need?)

    As commenter Digital Samizdat wrote: "If this were the Black Plague, we wouldn't be arguing if this were the Black Plague or not." Excellent way to put it. I don't even know a single soul who's gotten this thing for sure, I mean gotten actually sick, much less anyone who has died from it. I know nobody who knows anyone who's died from it.

    The amount of perspective one gains in life and the ability to not go into hysterics based on 6 months of 24/7 Infotainment is not a political effort. It's just being a responsible man.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Adam Smith, @Whitney

    I know nobody who knows anyone who’s died from it.

    I have a friend who’s sister died with covid.
    Statistically, she is one of the Cases! and one of the Deaths! here in Georgia.

    Susie was 77 years old. She lived in a nursing home for the last few years. She had COPD, persistent colonized pneumonia, still smoked cigarettes and had withered down to 65lbs over the last few years.

    Another tragic example of a life taken early by the most sinister of viruses.

    Damn you SARS-CoV-2!

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Adam Smith

    We've cured the disease formerly known as old age, so, yeah, it'd had to be that damn virus that done it.

  99. @Achmed E. Newman
    @unit472

    Do you think this virus will just stay bottled up and gone, from all of China (even with 2-week quarantine strictly-controlled travel) and anywhere that hard-core procedure are or have been in place? Viruses don't work like that. They will get to everyone, but the problem is in how potent a mutation. As my specialist friend heard from his I.D. (Infectious Disease) doctor friend months ago, "hey do you know anyone who's not gotten the common cold?"

    What would have happened to the AIDS virus if all the homos in the world had been LOCKED down, without their "buddies"? What would have happened to the virus - would it have gone from the face of the earth? (BTW, I agree that the many years of that narrative that AIDS can hit anyone was a great disservice to anyone who likes getting laid.)

    The most virulent strains are being put off in some place into the future. I don't even know if they will come out ahead on ACTUAL deaths FROM this COVID-19 at all. (Of course, for governments it's all about incentives in how you log deaths. Need to get the numbers down? Sure, let's get the insurance companies to remove the co-pay and deductible waivers they've had for the Trump Administration the last 6 months. What else do ya' need?)

    As commenter Digital Samizdat wrote: "If this were the Black Plague, we wouldn't be arguing if this were the Black Plague or not." Excellent way to put it. I don't even know a single soul who's gotten this thing for sure, I mean gotten actually sick, much less anyone who has died from it. I know nobody who knows anyone who's died from it.

    The amount of perspective one gains in life and the ability to not go into hysterics based on 6 months of 24/7 Infotainment is not a political effort. It's just being a responsible man.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Adam Smith, @Whitney

    At this point I know a lot of people that have had it. Mostly college age kids but some adults. The worst anyone felt was pretty crappy. Nobody was hospitalized and nobody even really went to a doctor except for the test. If this were what it was projected to be we would know many people that had died now that we’re six months into our two-week lockdown

    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
  100. Yahya K. says:
    @iffen
    @V. K. Ovelund

    Male, B.S., white, age 70, Republican because it is the lesser of the two evils. (Changed from being a lifelong New Deal Democrat after Obama.)

    I wear a mask and encourage all in my family to wear one. I have no objections to mandated mask usage. I object to the conditions under which the Borg can say you are a criminal if you wear a mask and then a couple of months later declare you a criminal if you don't wear one.


    From Lapham's Quarterly:

    Lactantius, early father of the Christian church, says, “The only true and certain obligation is to feed the needy and useless...men may have no use for them, but God has.”
     
    I have always believed this, even more so after 50 years as an atheist. I have no remembrance of being anything other than an egalitarian and a universalist. I suspect that I was born this way.

    Replies: @Yahya K.

    From Lapham’s Quarterly:

    Lactantius, early father of the Christian church, says, “The only true and certain obligation is to feed the needy and useless…men may have no use for them, but God has.”

    I have always believed this, even more so after 50 years as an atheist. I have no remembrance of being anything other than an egalitarian and a universalist. I suspect that I was born this way.

    There’s a similar sentiment found in Islam:

    [MORE]

    One basic element in the value system of Islam is the principle of equality or equity. This value of equality is not to be mistaken for or confused with identicalness or stereotype. Islam teaches that in the sight of Allah Almighty, all people are equal, but they are not necessarily identical. There are differences of abilities, potentials, ambitions, wealth and so on.

    The limitations in these examples are natural. The social limitations are those imposed by society as a result of experience and practice; in the final analysis, they are intellectual attitudes related to the previously mentioned traits. There is, for instance, the established difference between the ignorant and the learned. No one would assign major responsibilities that are crucial to the community to an ignorant person.

    Yet, none of these differences can by themselves, establish the status of superiority of one man or race over another. The stock of man, the color of his skin, the amount of wealth he has and the degree of prestige he enjoys have no bearing on the character and personality of the individual as far as Allah is concerned. The only distinction, which Allah recognizes is the distinction in piety; the only criterion which Allah applies, is the criterion of goodness and spiritual excellence. In the Quran, Allah Almighty Says (what means): “O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female, and have made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Indeed the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted” [Quran 49:13] In another narration, the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allah exalt his mention ) was asked: “Who among men is most favored by Allah?’ He, sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allah exalt his mention ) replied: “A man who does the most good to people.” [At-Tabaraani ]

    Concepts of chosen and gentile peoples, words such as ‘privileged’ and ‘condemned’ races, expressions such as “social castes” and “citizens” will all become meaningless and obsolete. Prophet Muhammad sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allah exalt his mention ) said: “O mankind, your Lord is One and your father is one. You all descended from Aadam, and Aadam was created from earth. He is most honored among you in the sight of God who is most upright. No Arab is superior to a non-Arab, no colored person to a white person, or a white person to a colored person except by Taqwa (piety).” [Ahmad and At-Tirmithi ]

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Yahya K.

    There’s a similar sentiment found in Islam

    I have gathered this from reading Talha's comments for these many years.

  101. @Yahya K.
    @iffen


    From Lapham’s Quarterly:

    Lactantius, early father of the Christian church, says, “The only true and certain obligation is to feed the needy and useless…men may have no use for them, but God has.”

    I have always believed this, even more so after 50 years as an atheist. I have no remembrance of being anything other than an egalitarian and a universalist. I suspect that I was born this way.

     

    There's a similar sentiment found in Islam:


    One basic element in the value system of Islam is the principle of equality or equity. This value of equality is not to be mistaken for or confused with identicalness or stereotype. Islam teaches that in the sight of Allah Almighty, all people are equal, but they are not necessarily identical. There are differences of abilities, potentials, ambitions, wealth and so on.

    The limitations in these examples are natural. The social limitations are those imposed by society as a result of experience and practice; in the final analysis, they are intellectual attitudes related to the previously mentioned traits. There is, for instance, the established difference between the ignorant and the learned. No one would assign major responsibilities that are crucial to the community to an ignorant person.

    Yet, none of these differences can by themselves, establish the status of superiority of one man or race over another. The stock of man, the color of his skin, the amount of wealth he has and the degree of prestige he enjoys have no bearing on the character and personality of the individual as far as Allah is concerned. The only distinction, which Allah recognizes is the distinction in piety; the only criterion which Allah applies, is the criterion of goodness and spiritual excellence. In the Quran, Allah Almighty Says (what means): "O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female, and have made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Indeed the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted" [Quran 49:13] In another narration, the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allah exalt his mention ) was asked: "Who among men is most favored by Allah?' He, sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allah exalt his mention ) replied: "A man who does the most good to people." [At-Tabaraani ]

    Concepts of chosen and gentile peoples, words such as ‘privileged’ and ‘condemned’ races, expressions such as “social castes” and “citizens” will all become meaningless and obsolete. Prophet Muhammad sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allah exalt his mention ) said: "O mankind, your Lord is One and your father is one. You all descended from Aadam, and Aadam was created from earth. He is most honored among you in the sight of God who is most upright. No Arab is superior to a non-Arab, no colored person to a white person, or a white person to a colored person except by Taqwa (piety)." [Ahmad and At-Tirmithi ]


     

    Replies: @iffen

    There’s a similar sentiment found in Islam

    I have gathered this from reading Talha’s comments for these many years.

  102. @dfordoom
    @unit472


    The point is, with a new infectious disease of unknown lethality on the loose it is better to suffer a short sharp disruption of life and get it under control than to allow the virus to spread throughout the country and endure months or years of restrictions. Business can endure a few weeks under lockdown conditions but not a long pandemic. Airlines, hotels, restaurants, hair salons and so much else will have been bankrupted by the time we get this virus under control ( if we ever do).
     
    I tend to agree. The biggest failure of western governments was that they acted much too slowly, and at first half-heartedly. A short sharp lockdown and we could have avoided all this misery. But idiots like Trump kept insisting that there was no problem. When you're not sure how serious a virus is going to turn out to be, stomp it hard and fast.

    Replies: @anon, @Lars Porsena, @Chrisnonymous

    This is only true if the lockdown is extremely thorough and extremely enforced in addition to being extremely early.

    And as Lord Sumption said, the idea that the government can just shut everything down and force you to stay inside is not in the Anglo-American tradition, so unlawful, which makes its enforcement highly problematic, ad it means the police obeying the dictates of politicians rather than actual laws.

  103. @Adam Smith
    @Achmed E. Newman


    I know nobody who knows anyone who’s died from it.
     
    I have a friend who's sister died with covid.
    Statistically, she is one of the Cases! and one of the Deaths! here in Georgia.

    Susie was 77 years old. She lived in a nursing home for the last few years. She had COPD, persistent colonized pneumonia, still smoked cigarettes and had withered down to 65lbs over the last few years.

    Another tragic example of a life taken early by the most sinister of viruses.

    Damn you SARS-CoV-2!

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    We’ve cured the disease formerly known as old age, so, yeah, it’d had to be that damn virus that done it.

    • Agree: Adam Smith
  104. @Dr. Robert Morgan
    Franz: "What’s the hi-IQ crowd message here?"

    Those with post-grad degrees may have higher IQs, but in order to have succeeded in grad school and obtained that degree, they ordinarily also must have conformist personalities. Grad school is all about conforming your thinking to your professors'. Except in a relatively few cases, great originality in a student is neither expected nor appreciated. All a high IQ does for most people who have one is to help them assimilate a particular point of view (i.e., propaganda) faster. This is why colleges and universities are cesspits of political correctness, even (or especially) among the faculty. Perhaps this association between conformity and IQ also underlies the supposedly conformist nature of high-IQ Asian societies compared to those in the West.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @Adûnâi

    Stupidity… Just a few hours [edit: days] ago, I had a thought that would in a way vindicate Chechar’s understanding. Intelligence only applies to an actor that receives the correct input data. 2+2=4, but what is the answer if he happens to have bad eyesight?

    I can’t precisely explain how this would pertain to axiology. But an example could be: in Enoch Powell’s “Rivers of Blood” speech’s time, the Anglo society did not imagine immigration vividly enough. Certainly, there were no “Aryan women with Negro men” miscegenation advertisements in the streets. Is it a matter of the IQ? Did the Christian axiology tranquilize the inherent Aryan intelligence in this one respect? Were the relevant social forces neutered, maybe by their own choice of action?

    Rationality is the ability to perform a means-ends calculation, if I heard it correctly. What is the end goal of Francis of Assisi, however? Does morality even have an aim? It’s always the vectors; the participants have their brains neutered if need be. For example, modern Christianity puts an infinite value on every Negro life in Africa – it will lead to mass starvation in the hundreds of millions in the future. Do they foresee it? No. Anything else is not merely taboo and irrational – it is beyond the pale, unthinkable. I haven’t seen an atheist militant faction in the Levantine civil wars – even Rojava does not dare to smear the name of Allah.

    There is something blocking the Aryan race’s will to live. Let’s hope, the conditions of the future will be a grindstone, not a guillotine.

    P.S. This was originally intended to be a response to your comment under the Kyle Rittenhouse article, but here, it is even more appropriate.

    I would only add that the wish of any spiritual Christian is that there is one Truth which any person with the IQ high enough is destined to uncover. Yet, is it the reality? Or maybe, the IQs are not high enough to grasp what neo-Nazi thugs know instinctively or by experience…

  105. First, I don’t believe the stat for blacks. The chief orientation in black life is looseness, being natural, and of course masks are contra that. Also, blacks are generally disdainful of white opinion, and the public health edifice is even whiter than LE. But masks facilitate mobbin’, so the survey might well reflect that.

    Second, I have to laugh at the 70-year old lukewarm-Republican commenter who reads Lewis Lapham. Short irrelevant aside: when Lapham was editing Harper’s, I used to hang out at an Egyptian-owned magazine shop where I noticed that the Harper’s stack was twice as big as any other issue. I asked the proprietor why, and he said it was his best seller, next to Playboy. But I didn’t believe him, because the stack never seemed to recede, even a little.

    Anyway, Lapham, ridiculously rich as an heir to the Standard Oil fortune, can afford to admit his lifelong mistake with the Democrats. I mean, here’s a guy who’s highly literate and takes pride in knowing history, but his party’s main function is to bail out a race of people who not only have no interest in history, but are overwhelmingly illiterate and demonstrate pride in being so. Haven’t enough years passed now since Brown? Likewise, Lapham is outraged by Citizen’s United, but doesn’t notice that it’s corporations that are most enthusiastic about goading or forcing everyone into swallowing exceptions and exemptions for blacks. If Lapham really believes that voices from the past have something to say, he should be a white nationalist. No one can cancel him.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Marty

    Second, I have to laugh at the 70-year old lukewarm-Republican commenter who reads Lewis Lapham.

    A more attentive reading of my comment shows that I read The Scholar's Stage. Apparently Greer reads Lapham. I attributed Lapham via The Stage: it's there in the comment.

    As to your recommendation that Lapham become a White Nationalist, I am interested. Do you, perchance, have an application form that you could forward to me?

  106. @dfordoom
    @Anonymous


    I’ve never seen teens wearing masks and they are the ones most likely to out and about in groups of unrelated individuals. No one older than about 30 seems to bother with a mask, either.
     
    Yep. The Corona Panic seems to be very specific to the 20 to 30 age group. With some women in the 30-35 bracket. That's certainly the situation in my part of Australia. You see a few older people with masks but I suspect they've been bullied into it. It's the twenty-somethings who are the True Believers.

    Which is not surprising. Young people seem to be naturally inclined to anxiety. If you run into a Climate Change True Believer they're also more likely to be in the younger age brackets. Young people are always worrying about the End of the World. It's part of being young.

    Young people are also very much more inclined to fanaticism. They're naturally over-emotional. They not only think the world needs saving, they want to force others into joining their crusade.

    Replies: @Marty

    Totally wrong. I don’t know about the sticks, but here in Cyra McFadden County you’d have a hard time finding anyone between 40-75 not wearing a mask, even while taking a leisurely stroll alone or with a spouse. The way I figure, the people who’ve made it so luv luv luv their incredibly sweet lives that they’ll gladly endure any inconvenience just so they can be around long enough to see their house value rise to $4 million.

  107. Adûnâi: “Does morality even have an aim? … There is something blocking the Aryan race’s will to live. Let’s hope, the conditions of the future will be a grindstone, not a guillotine.”

    I think when pondering such a question it’s well to keep in mind that from a Darwinian perspective, man is merely another kind of animal, and his moral standards develop because they aid survival under a given set of conditions. There’s nothing transcendent about them, really, although people find that vital to believe in order to keep up the illusion that morality is something different than mere custom. All the religious nonsense that justifies morality as being God-given, unalterable, and eternal, was made up later. But neither do moral standards originate or change according to some “rational calculation”. Like any other characteristic affected by evolutionary pressures, they just emerge and change in response to changing conditions.

    Thus, under primitive conditions, you have one kind of morality, an element of which we could call loyalty to tribe. But under the technological condition of globalism, it’s necessary to adopt quite another moral system. To keep the peace and keep globalism smoothly running along, tribal loyalties must be abandoned; diversity celebrated, and intermarriage encouraged. So in my view, what is blocking the Aryan race’s will to live, as you put it, is simply the fact that man’s ever-expanding system of technology has now reached the stage at which race-loyalty is seen by the collective mind as an impediment, and hence decried as a moral evil. This condition can be expected to last as long as the technological system survives, and if it does, most likely will result in the extinction, through hybridization, of the races of man as they currently exist today.

    • Replies: @C.T.
    @Dr. Robert Morgan


    But under the technological condition… tribal loyalties must be abandoned; diversity celebrated, and intermarriage encouraged.

     

    Clearly untrue. Otherwise, China, Japan, and South Korea, and other 1st-World countries who have thoroughly embraced technology would be importing millions of Orcs and encouraging mixed marriages.

    Only countries who have been Christian have become openly ethno-suicidal. In Aristotelian terms, technology is a necessary cause for white decline but not a sufficient cause. The ingredient of the brew that’s killing whites is Christianity—universal love—: a poison that those nations who never were Christian haven’t swallowed.

    I recommend that you watch the well-known YouTube channels of two whites who in the past lived in China for many years. They even married Chinese women, so that you can see how they describe the innate racism of the Chinese towards blacks, and how not even the government admits to films like the one of the Star Wars series when Luke Skywalker dies, because of an affair between a Chinese girl with a black man comes out.

    The channels of these couple of white guys are the most reliable source I know of for describing how Chinese axiology radically differs from white axiology regarding miscegenation. These white guys know so well the culture that although they have spoken fluent Mandarin for years, when they don’t get the meaning of a peculiar slang word they simply ask their Chinese wives.

    Replies: @Adûnâi

    , @Adûnâi
    @Dr. Robert Morgan

    > "...his moral standards develop because they aid survival under a given set of conditions."

    This statement is effectively a lie by omission. What do you mean by "aid survival"? Let me tell you a parable.

    You are trudging through an Indian jungle. You feel well and sure of yourself. Then you encounter a tiger, run away from it, suddenly reach a cliff, and plunge down to your death.

    You seem to be arguing that running away from a tiger towards a cliff is "aiding one's survival". That is technically true. But such survival is obviously quite short-lasting.

    You are also trying to tell me that thinking ahead is impossible. Whereas I posit that the conditions of technological Man are such that he will either reason rationally, or perish. Case in point - feudal Korea which suffered at the hands of the Japanese, yet changed, and now can threaten America as an equal. The history of mankind is not predetermined, it is more like a war, and any war can be won or lost (more on that later).

    > " There’s nothing transcendent about them,..."

    You're a determinist, I get it. But aren't you denying any agency to individual reformers at all, and unjustly so?

    I myself hate idealism - in its philosophical meaning, it denotes the rejection of reality and the acceptance of the primacy of "spirit", of the supernatural. I get it. But idealism is also widely used in its second meaning - the role of political will, and of individual contribution to history.

    1. Without humans' evolving, Hitler would not have been elected Führer (biological materialism).
    2. Without capitalist economy, Germany would not have entered the Industrial Revolution (economic materialism)
    3. But without Hitler, there would most likely not have been a Führer at all (political idealism).
    (4. Christianity-derived idealism: Hitler's birth was preordained, all in order for "the Universe to know itself", etc.)

    Giving certain personalities their due is not equal to denying the material reality of existence. Muhammad revolutionised the Arab race's culture, Gutenberg developed typography, Darwin made a breakthrough in understanding life - each of them surely had underlying material conditions to work with, but the outcome is never certain.

    What's to say of the Second World War, which could have been... won by the other side. Don't tell me the outcome was "predetermined" unless you mean pure philosophy. Friedrich der Große had faced far greater material odds, still won - by chance in one part, by his indomitable will in another part.

    > "To keep the peace and keep globalism smoothly running along, tribal loyalties must be abandoned; diversity celebrated, and intermarriage encouraged."

    You know what I can respond with - that an efficiency-worshipping system would prohibit miscegenation lest the IQ of the population be lowered. It is not obvious to me that racism would be considered the ultimate evil in such a culture. Ergo, we are not in such a culture.

    Chechar AKA César Tort has replied to you here.
    https://chechar.wordpress.com/2020/09/03/masthead-3/#comment-83301

  108. @Dr. Robert Morgan
    Adûnâi: "Does morality even have an aim? ... There is something blocking the Aryan race’s will to live. Let’s hope, the conditions of the future will be a grindstone, not a guillotine."

    I think when pondering such a question it's well to keep in mind that from a Darwinian perspective, man is merely another kind of animal, and his moral standards develop because they aid survival under a given set of conditions. There's nothing transcendent about them, really, although people find that vital to believe in order to keep up the illusion that morality is something different than mere custom. All the religious nonsense that justifies morality as being God-given, unalterable, and eternal, was made up later. But neither do moral standards originate or change according to some "rational calculation". Like any other characteristic affected by evolutionary pressures, they just emerge and change in response to changing conditions.

    Thus, under primitive conditions, you have one kind of morality, an element of which we could call loyalty to tribe. But under the technological condition of globalism, it's necessary to adopt quite another moral system. To keep the peace and keep globalism smoothly running along, tribal loyalties must be abandoned; diversity celebrated, and intermarriage encouraged. So in my view, what is blocking the Aryan race's will to live, as you put it, is simply the fact that man's ever-expanding system of technology has now reached the stage at which race-loyalty is seen by the collective mind as an impediment, and hence decried as a moral evil. This condition can be expected to last as long as the technological system survives, and if it does, most likely will result in the extinction, through hybridization, of the races of man as they currently exist today.

    Replies: @C.T., @Adûnâi

    But under the technological condition… tribal loyalties must be abandoned; diversity celebrated, and intermarriage encouraged.

    Clearly untrue. Otherwise, China, Japan, and South Korea, and other 1st-World countries who have thoroughly embraced technology would be importing millions of Orcs and encouraging mixed marriages.

    Only countries who have been Christian have become openly ethno-suicidal. In Aristotelian terms, technology is a necessary cause for white decline but not a sufficient cause. The ingredient of the brew that’s killing whites is Christianity—universal love—: a poison that those nations who never were Christian haven’t swallowed.

    I recommend that you watch the well-known YouTube channels of two whites who in the past lived in China for many years. They even married Chinese women, so that you can see how they describe the innate racism of the Chinese towards blacks, and how not even the government admits to films like the one of the Star Wars series when Luke Skywalker dies, because of an affair between a Chinese girl with a black man comes out.

    The channels of these couple of white guys are the most reliable source I know of for describing how Chinese axiology radically differs from white axiology regarding miscegenation. These white guys know so well the culture that although they have spoken fluent Mandarin for years, when they don’t get the meaning of a peculiar slang word they simply ask their Chinese wives.

    • Replies: @Adûnâi
    @C.T.

    Our conversations here are dry with intelligence. It is traditionally you who has been reminding fellow men about the sensitive side of our nature. When you look at China, don't you see in the boiling of dogs an echo of pre-Christian gladiatorial arenas of Roman antiquity?

    I increasingly hold it true that Christianity must have tapped into an existing issue. The Christian yin might have been an overreaction to the centuries of brutal Latin yang.

    The lesson of it all seems clear to me - existence is sorrowful, yet a Christian lackey I must not become. This is what Tolkien's "long defeat" might be reevalued to mean. This is what I feel when listening to this Elven song from Juche Korea. The perfect and catharsic hatred of Christianity.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYlTGxmsw3s

    Rustles of leaves are also calling me / Gurgles of stream are also calling me / When I am on a long journey, they tell me / To go on without rest / To go on without rest

    I am sorry for using non-Aryan sources, but nothing coming from Aryans has been inspiring (with the exception of Savitri). Whereas the image of this maid in blue walking beside the trees and streams speaks in a profound way.

    P.S. Southern Korean men have mongrels with Filipino women, with Russian women. Hundreds of thousands of filthy foreigners. Dr. Robert Morgan might see in this the beginning of local globalisation; your position might push one to pondering about the dawn of Christianisation. To me, one thing is certain - a strong hatred of Christianity is necessary for a race to ward of the dangers of the Jewish world-view.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_South_Korea

  109. @Marty
    First, I don’t believe the stat for blacks. The chief orientation in black life is looseness, being natural, and of course masks are contra that. Also, blacks are generally disdainful of white opinion, and the public health edifice is even whiter than LE. But masks facilitate mobbin’, so the survey might well reflect that.

    Second, I have to laugh at the 70-year old lukewarm-Republican commenter who reads Lewis Lapham. Short irrelevant aside: when Lapham was editing Harper’s, I used to hang out at an Egyptian-owned magazine shop where I noticed that the Harper’s stack was twice as big as any other issue. I asked the proprietor why, and he said it was his best seller, next to Playboy. But I didn’t believe him, because the stack never seemed to recede, even a little.

    Anyway, Lapham, ridiculously rich as an heir to the Standard Oil fortune, can afford to admit his lifelong mistake with the Democrats. I mean, here’s a guy who’s highly literate and takes pride in knowing history, but his party’s main function is to bail out a race of people who not only have no interest in history, but are overwhelmingly illiterate and demonstrate pride in being so. Haven’t enough years passed now since Brown? Likewise, Lapham is outraged by Citizen’s United, but doesn’t notice that it’s corporations that are most enthusiastic about goading or forcing everyone into swallowing exceptions and exemptions for blacks. If Lapham really believes that voices from the past have something to say, he should be a white nationalist. No one can cancel him.

    Replies: @iffen

    Second, I have to laugh at the 70-year old lukewarm-Republican commenter who reads Lewis Lapham.

    A more attentive reading of my comment shows that I read The Scholar’s Stage. Apparently Greer reads Lapham. I attributed Lapham via The Stage: it’s there in the comment.

    As to your recommendation that Lapham become a White Nationalist, I am interested. Do you, perchance, have an application form that you could forward to me?

  110. C.T.: “Clearly untrue [that the global technological system will encourage race mixing]. Otherwise, China, Japan, and South Korea, and other 1st-World countries who have thoroughly embraced technology would be importing millions of Orcs and encouraging mixed marriages.”

    This is similar to Jared Taylor’s point of view, and I think it’s a pretty weak argument. Like some other things that Taylor says, it’s deceptive because it has a certain superficial plausibility. But that disappears once you really start thinking about it and do your own research.

    First of all, China, Japan, and Korea were late-comers to industrialization, so you can’t expect them to immediately be at the same stage as a country such as the USA, which has been imported negroes for centuries. They are also overpopulated as it is, and so have no need to import people. You ignore the fact that whites imported negroes and other non-whites not because of Christianity, but as a technological necessity.

    Second, their “empires” aren’t nearly as big. The USA has troops in over 150 countries. In how many other countries do China, Japan, and Korea have troops? Also, of the four, which country exercises the most dominance over the global economy? Clearly, as home of the world’s reserve currency, it’s the USA. Which of the four exercises the most cultural dominance? Again, the USA, at the center of the world’s mass media. The larger the empire, the greater the need to promote race mixing.

    Third, your claim that race mixing is a result of Christianity, not an inherent property of empire, is backwards. For one thing, it ignores the example of Alexander the Great’s empire, in which race mixing was encouraged as a means to keep the peace and intermarriage was urged as a means to unite the citizenry. Seen properly, empire generates moral systems such as Christianity, it doesn’t result from them. Pagan Greek writer Plutarch celebrated Alexander the Great for his globalistic vision:

    http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Moralia/Fortuna_Alexandri*/1.html

    6 Moreover, the much-admired Republic of Zeno, the founder of the Stoic sect, may be summed up in this one main principle: that all the inhabitants of this world of ours should not live differentiated by their respective rules of justice into separate cities and communities, but that we should consider all men to be of one community and one polity, and that we should have a common life and an order common to us all, even as a herd that feeds together and shares the pasturage of a common field. This Zeno wrote, giving shape to a dream or, as it were, shadowy picture of a well-ordered and philosophic commonwealth; but it was Alexander who gave effect to the idea. For Alexander did not follow Aristotle’s advice to treat the Greeks as if he were their leader, and other peoples as if he were their master; to have regard for the Greeks as for friends and kindred, but to conduct himself toward other peoples as though they were plants or animals; for to do so would have been to cumber his leadership with numerous battles and banishments and festering seditions. But, as he believed that he came as a heaven-sent governor to all, and as a mediator for the whole world, those whom he could not persuade to unite with him, he conquered by force of arms, and he brought together into one body all men everywhere, uniting and mixing in one great loving-cup, as it were, men’s lives, their characters, their marriages, their very habits of life. He bade them all consider as their fatherland the whole inhabited earth, as their stronghold and protection his camp, as akin to them all good men, and as foreigners only the wicked; they should not distinguish between Grecian and foreigner by Grecian cloak and targe, or scimitar and jacket; but the distinguishing mark of the Grecian should be seen in virtue, and that of the foreigner in iniquity; clothing and food, marriage and manner of life they should regard as common to all, being blended into one by ties of blood and children.

    There are similar quotes from pre-Christian Romans regarding their own approach to empire. They, too, used intermarriage as a means of stabilizing and uniting the citizenry. The upshot is that given human nature, race mixing will be an inevitable result of any global empire. Technological sophistication acts to speed the whole process up, but it is caused by the mere fact of expansion. Religious justification for race mixing plays a supporting role, but isn’t causative.

    C.T.: “I recommend that you watch the well-known YouTube channels of two whites who in the past lived in China for many years. They even married Chinese women, …”

    The fact that they married Chinese women supports my point and undermines yours.

    • Replies: @C.T.
    @Dr. Robert Morgan

    A couple of months ago you never responded to Adunai’s reply to your anti-tech ideology: that, without Christian ethics, whites would have used their weapons of mass destruction to wipe out the entire non-white population on Earth.


    First of all, China, Japan, and Korea were late-comers to industrialization, so you can’t expect them to immediately be at the same stage as a country such as the USA
     
    You are speculating that these Asians will behave like deranged westerners by importing millions of Orcs in the future—pure speculation (again, see the videos of the white guys living in China to grasp the Chinese’s racism).

    You ignore the fact that whites imported negroes and other non-whites not because of Christianity, but as a technological necessity.

     

    Only in the decadent stages of the white empires. Hitler’s empire would never have allowed such a thing after conquering large part of the world. Entire races would have been destroyed by now, per Darwin’s quotes:

    https://chechar.wordpress.com/2017/10/29/darwins-exterminationism/

    The larger the empire, the greater the need to promote race mixing.
     
    Again, not if the evil Anglo-Saxons had allowed the Third Reich to flourish.


    Third, your claim that race mixing is a result of Christianity…
     
    I’ve never made such a claim. Have you read the recent preface to The Fair Race’s Darkest Hour?

    Moreover, the much-admired Republic of Zeno, the founder of the Stoic sect, may be summed up in this one main principle: that all the inhabitants of this world of ours should not live differentiated…
     
    Zeno was a Hellenistic philosopher of Phoenician origin, an ancient Semitic-speaking civilisation. I wonder which ethnic group he belonged?

    There are similar quotes from pre-Christian Romans regarding their own approach to empire. They, too, used intermarriage as a means of stabilizing and uniting the citizenry. The upshot is that given human nature, race mixing will be an inevitable result of any global empire.
     
    Yes: the Roman Empire! But only the Republican Romans kept their blood pure. At any event, in The Fair Race I am not even using Republican Rome as the paradigm to follow, only National Socialism which was much more recent. As William Pierce said, the ancients had no benefit of hindsight and didn’t know that the only choice for a successful long-term empire was ‘extermination or expulsion’.

    Technological sophistication acts to speed the whole process up, but it is caused by the mere fact of expansion. Religious justification for race mixing plays a supporting role, but isn’t causative.
     
    Out-group love is murdering the white race. It is not murdering the technological Chinese because they don’t love blacks. And the commandment to love the coloured comes directly from the gospel. In other words, had the Vikings conquered the American continent they might be behaving like today’s Chinese, not like idiotic westerners.

    In a nutshell, technological empire under a Third Reich wouldn’t have been ethno-suicidal.
  111. @Dr. Robert Morgan
    C.T.: "Clearly untrue [that the global technological system will encourage race mixing]. Otherwise, China, Japan, and South Korea, and other 1st-World countries who have thoroughly embraced technology would be importing millions of Orcs and encouraging mixed marriages."

    This is similar to Jared Taylor's point of view, and I think it's a pretty weak argument. Like some other things that Taylor says, it's deceptive because it has a certain superficial plausibility. But that disappears once you really start thinking about it and do your own research.

    First of all, China, Japan, and Korea were late-comers to industrialization, so you can't expect them to immediately be at the same stage as a country such as the USA, which has been imported negroes for centuries. They are also overpopulated as it is, and so have no need to import people. You ignore the fact that whites imported negroes and other non-whites not because of Christianity, but as a technological necessity.

    Second, their "empires" aren't nearly as big. The USA has troops in over 150 countries. In how many other countries do China, Japan, and Korea have troops? Also, of the four, which country exercises the most dominance over the global economy? Clearly, as home of the world's reserve currency, it's the USA. Which of the four exercises the most cultural dominance? Again, the USA, at the center of the world's mass media. The larger the empire, the greater the need to promote race mixing.

    Third, your claim that race mixing is a result of Christianity, not an inherent property of empire, is backwards. For one thing, it ignores the example of Alexander the Great's empire, in which race mixing was encouraged as a means to keep the peace and intermarriage was urged as a means to unite the citizenry. Seen properly, empire generates moral systems such as Christianity, it doesn't result from them. Pagan Greek writer Plutarch celebrated Alexander the Great for his globalistic vision:

    http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Moralia/Fortuna_Alexandri*/1.html

    6 Moreover, the much-admired Republic of Zeno, the founder of the Stoic sect, may be summed up in this one main principle: that all the inhabitants of this world of ours should not live differentiated by their respective rules of justice into separate cities and communities, but that we should consider all men to be of one community and one polity, and that we should have a common life and an order common to us all, even as a herd that feeds together and shares the pasturage of a common field. This Zeno wrote, giving shape to a dream or, as it were, shadowy picture of a well-ordered and philosophic commonwealth; but it was Alexander who gave effect to the idea. For Alexander did not follow Aristotle's advice to treat the Greeks as if he were their leader, and other peoples as if he were their master; to have regard for the Greeks as for friends and kindred, but to conduct himself toward other peoples as though they were plants or animals; for to do so would have been to cumber his leadership with numerous battles and banishments and festering seditions. But, as he believed that he came as a heaven-sent governor to all, and as a mediator for the whole world, those whom he could not persuade to unite with him, he conquered by force of arms, and he brought together into one body all men everywhere, uniting and mixing in one great loving-cup, as it were, men's lives, their characters, their marriages, their very habits of life. He bade them all consider as their fatherland the whole inhabited earth, as their stronghold and protection his camp, as akin to them all good men, and as foreigners only the wicked; they should not distinguish between Grecian and foreigner by Grecian cloak and targe, or scimitar and jacket; but the distinguishing mark of the Grecian should be seen in virtue, and that of the foreigner in iniquity; clothing and food, marriage and manner of life they should regard as common to all, being blended into one by ties of blood and children.
     
    There are similar quotes from pre-Christian Romans regarding their own approach to empire. They, too, used intermarriage as a means of stabilizing and uniting the citizenry. The upshot is that given human nature, race mixing will be an inevitable result of any global empire. Technological sophistication acts to speed the whole process up, but it is caused by the mere fact of expansion. Religious justification for race mixing plays a supporting role, but isn't causative.

    C.T.: "I recommend that you watch the well-known YouTube channels of two whites who in the past lived in China for many years. They even married Chinese women, ..."

    The fact that they married Chinese women supports my point and undermines yours.

    Replies: @C.T.

    A couple of months ago you never responded to Adunai’s reply to your anti-tech ideology: that, without Christian ethics, whites would have used their weapons of mass destruction to wipe out the entire non-white population on Earth.

    First of all, China, Japan, and Korea were late-comers to industrialization, so you can’t expect them to immediately be at the same stage as a country such as the USA

    You are speculating that these Asians will behave like deranged westerners by importing millions of Orcs in the future—pure speculation (again, see the videos of the white guys living in China to grasp the Chinese’s racism).

    You ignore the fact that whites imported negroes and other non-whites not because of Christianity, but as a technological necessity.

    Only in the decadent stages of the white empires. Hitler’s empire would never have allowed such a thing after conquering large part of the world. Entire races would have been destroyed by now, per Darwin’s quotes:

    https://chechar.wordpress.com/2017/10/29/darwins-exterminationism/

    The larger the empire, the greater the need to promote race mixing.

    Again, not if the evil Anglo-Saxons had allowed the Third Reich to flourish.

    Third, your claim that race mixing is a result of Christianity…

    I’ve never made such a claim. Have you read the recent preface to The Fair Race’s Darkest Hour?

    Moreover, the much-admired Republic of Zeno, the founder of the Stoic sect, may be summed up in this one main principle: that all the inhabitants of this world of ours should not live differentiated…

    Zeno was a Hellenistic philosopher of Phoenician origin, an ancient Semitic-speaking civilisation. I wonder which ethnic group he belonged?

    There are similar quotes from pre-Christian Romans regarding their own approach to empire. They, too, used intermarriage as a means of stabilizing and uniting the citizenry. The upshot is that given human nature, race mixing will be an inevitable result of any global empire.

    Yes: the Roman Empire! But only the Republican Romans kept their blood pure. At any event, in The Fair Race I am not even using Republican Rome as the paradigm to follow, only National Socialism which was much more recent. As William Pierce said, the ancients had no benefit of hindsight and didn’t know that the only choice for a successful long-term empire was ‘extermination or expulsion’.

    Technological sophistication acts to speed the whole process up, but it is caused by the mere fact of expansion. Religious justification for race mixing plays a supporting role, but isn’t causative.

    Out-group love is murdering the white race. It is not murdering the technological Chinese because they don’t love blacks. And the commandment to love the coloured comes directly from the gospel. In other words, had the Vikings conquered the American continent they might be behaving like today’s Chinese, not like idiotic westerners.

    In a nutshell, technological empire under a Third Reich wouldn’t have been ethno-suicidal.

  112. @Dr. Robert Morgan
    Adûnâi: "Does morality even have an aim? ... There is something blocking the Aryan race’s will to live. Let’s hope, the conditions of the future will be a grindstone, not a guillotine."

    I think when pondering such a question it's well to keep in mind that from a Darwinian perspective, man is merely another kind of animal, and his moral standards develop because they aid survival under a given set of conditions. There's nothing transcendent about them, really, although people find that vital to believe in order to keep up the illusion that morality is something different than mere custom. All the religious nonsense that justifies morality as being God-given, unalterable, and eternal, was made up later. But neither do moral standards originate or change according to some "rational calculation". Like any other characteristic affected by evolutionary pressures, they just emerge and change in response to changing conditions.

    Thus, under primitive conditions, you have one kind of morality, an element of which we could call loyalty to tribe. But under the technological condition of globalism, it's necessary to adopt quite another moral system. To keep the peace and keep globalism smoothly running along, tribal loyalties must be abandoned; diversity celebrated, and intermarriage encouraged. So in my view, what is blocking the Aryan race's will to live, as you put it, is simply the fact that man's ever-expanding system of technology has now reached the stage at which race-loyalty is seen by the collective mind as an impediment, and hence decried as a moral evil. This condition can be expected to last as long as the technological system survives, and if it does, most likely will result in the extinction, through hybridization, of the races of man as they currently exist today.

    Replies: @C.T., @Adûnâi

    > “…his moral standards develop because they aid survival under a given set of conditions.”

    This statement is effectively a lie by omission. What do you mean by “aid survival”? Let me tell you a parable.

    You are trudging through an Indian jungle. You feel well and sure of yourself. Then you encounter a tiger, run away from it, suddenly reach a cliff, and plunge down to your death.

    You seem to be arguing that running away from a tiger towards a cliff is “aiding one’s survival”. That is technically true. But such survival is obviously quite short-lasting.

    You are also trying to tell me that thinking ahead is impossible. Whereas I posit that the conditions of technological Man are such that he will either reason rationally, or perish. Case in point – feudal Korea which suffered at the hands of the Japanese, yet changed, and now can threaten America as an equal. The history of mankind is not predetermined, it is more like a war, and any war can be won or lost (more on that later).

    > ” There’s nothing transcendent about them,…”

    You’re a determinist, I get it. But aren’t you denying any agency to individual reformers at all, and unjustly so?

    I myself hate idealism – in its philosophical meaning, it denotes the rejection of reality and the acceptance of the primacy of “spirit”, of the supernatural. I get it. But idealism is also widely used in its second meaning – the role of political will, and of individual contribution to history.

    1. Without humans’ evolving, Hitler would not have been elected Führer (biological materialism).
    2. Without capitalist economy, Germany would not have entered the Industrial Revolution (economic materialism)
    3. But without Hitler, there would most likely not have been a Führer at all (political idealism).
    (4. Christianity-derived idealism: Hitler’s birth was preordained, all in order for “the Universe to know itself”, etc.)

    Giving certain personalities their due is not equal to denying the material reality of existence. Muhammad revolutionised the Arab race’s culture, Gutenberg developed typography, Darwin made a breakthrough in understanding life – each of them surely had underlying material conditions to work with, but the outcome is never certain.

    What’s to say of the Second World War, which could have been… won by the other side. Don’t tell me the outcome was “predetermined” unless you mean pure philosophy. Friedrich der Große had faced far greater material odds, still won – by chance in one part, by his indomitable will in another part.

    > “To keep the peace and keep globalism smoothly running along, tribal loyalties must be abandoned; diversity celebrated, and intermarriage encouraged.”

    You know what I can respond with – that an efficiency-worshipping system would prohibit miscegenation lest the IQ of the population be lowered. It is not obvious to me that racism would be considered the ultimate evil in such a culture. Ergo, we are not in such a culture.

    Chechar AKA César Tort has replied to you here.
    https://chechar.wordpress.com/2020/09/03/masthead-3/#comment-83301

  113. @C.T.
    @Dr. Robert Morgan


    But under the technological condition… tribal loyalties must be abandoned; diversity celebrated, and intermarriage encouraged.

     

    Clearly untrue. Otherwise, China, Japan, and South Korea, and other 1st-World countries who have thoroughly embraced technology would be importing millions of Orcs and encouraging mixed marriages.

    Only countries who have been Christian have become openly ethno-suicidal. In Aristotelian terms, technology is a necessary cause for white decline but not a sufficient cause. The ingredient of the brew that’s killing whites is Christianity—universal love—: a poison that those nations who never were Christian haven’t swallowed.

    I recommend that you watch the well-known YouTube channels of two whites who in the past lived in China for many years. They even married Chinese women, so that you can see how they describe the innate racism of the Chinese towards blacks, and how not even the government admits to films like the one of the Star Wars series when Luke Skywalker dies, because of an affair between a Chinese girl with a black man comes out.

    The channels of these couple of white guys are the most reliable source I know of for describing how Chinese axiology radically differs from white axiology regarding miscegenation. These white guys know so well the culture that although they have spoken fluent Mandarin for years, when they don’t get the meaning of a peculiar slang word they simply ask their Chinese wives.

    Replies: @Adûnâi

    Our conversations here are dry with intelligence. It is traditionally you who has been reminding fellow men about the sensitive side of our nature. When you look at China, don’t you see in the boiling of dogs an echo of pre-Christian gladiatorial arenas of Roman antiquity?

    I increasingly hold it true that Christianity must have tapped into an existing issue. The Christian yin might have been an overreaction to the centuries of brutal Latin yang.

    The lesson of it all seems clear to me – existence is sorrowful, yet a Christian lackey I must not become. This is what Tolkien’s “long defeat” might be reevalued to mean. This is what I feel when listening to this Elven song from Juche Korea. The perfect and catharsic hatred of Christianity.

    Rustles of leaves are also calling me / Gurgles of stream are also calling me / When I am on a long journey, they tell me / To go on without rest / To go on without rest

    I am sorry for using non-Aryan sources, but nothing coming from Aryans has been inspiring (with the exception of Savitri). Whereas the image of this maid in blue walking beside the trees and streams speaks in a profound way.

    P.S. Southern Korean men have mongrels with Filipino women, with Russian women. Hundreds of thousands of filthy foreigners. Dr. Robert Morgan might see in this the beginning of local globalisation; your position might push one to pondering about the dawn of Christianisation. To me, one thing is certain – a strong hatred of Christianity is necessary for a race to ward of the dangers of the Jewish world-view.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_South_Korea

  114. C.T.: “You are speculating that these Asians will behave like deranged westerners by importing millions of Orcs in the future—pure speculation…”

    And you are speculating they will not.

    C.T.: “Only in the decadent stages of the white empires.”

    When the future USA started importing negroes in the 1600s, it could hardly be accused of being either decadent or an empire. And to repeat, what drove this importation wasn’t Christian charity, but the technological necessity occasioned by having the need for laborers accustomed to tropical heat and malaria.

    Another point for you to consider is that Europe, though industrialized AND Christian, also didn’t start importing negroes and other non-whites right away. It went more than two centuries before starting to do it on a large scale, evidently following the American model. It first had to perceive a technological need for them.

    Your argument comes down to this: that if ever, in any future scenario, the Chinese, Japanese, or Koreans see that they can benefit themselves by race mixing, they still won’t do it, preferring instead whatever the other choice is, be it poverty, submission to foreign conquest, or death. I just don’t believe it, and it mystifies me why anyone would believe such obvious nonsense. But since you believe it, maybe you can explain it to me.

    C.T.: ” Again, not if…”

    More speculation.

    C.T.: “I’ve never made such a claim.”

    When you make such statements as “Only countries who have been Christian have become openly ethno-suicidal.” and “The ingredient of the brew that’s killing whites is Christianity …” it’s hard to see any other way to interpret it.

    C.T.: “I wonder which ethnic group he belonged?”

    So did Revilo Oliver, but he couldn’t decide.

    C.T.: “Yes: the Roman Empire! But only the Republican Romans kept their blood pure.”

    This isn’t really a counter-argument. In fact, you are here evidently agreeing with me that expansion is what causes the mixing. But expansion into empire is a technological necessity. Conquer and expand or be conquered and submit. That’s just life, the structure of Darwinian reality.

    C.T.: “And the commandment to love the coloured comes directly from the gospel.”

    I don’t think there’s anything in there about “the colored” specifically.

    C.T.: “In a nutshell, technological empire under a Third Reich wouldn’t have been ethno-suicidal.”

    More speculation. But no one can know for sure what the future holds. The only thing that seems certain to me is that it would have taken whatever seemed to it at the time to be the best course of action. But then, that was what Alexander did, and what the Roman emperors did, and what the American Founding Fathers did, and we see how that turned out.

    Kaczynski has some interesting insights into this issue in his book Anti-Tech Revolution: Why and How. He points out and gives examples of how little real control leaders actually have over an organization, how revolutionary goals must be achieved quickly or risk not being achieved at all, and how bureaucracies have a life and seemingly a will of their own. Given these facts, speculation into the indefinite future about what the Third Reich would or would not have done if it had been victorious seems nugatory. Of much more value is understanding why such an approach failed.

    • Replies: @C.T.
    @Dr. Robert Morgan

    Yes: Kaczynski is your mentor, Robert Morgan.

    I much prefer Hitler or, on this side of the Atlantic, Pierce.

    Both are speculating, yes: but I really don't think that the technological Nazis would be mixing their blood right now had the Americans not committed the greatest blunder in all Western history.

  115. @Dr. Robert Morgan
    C.T.: "You are speculating that these Asians will behave like deranged westerners by importing millions of Orcs in the future—pure speculation..."

    And you are speculating they will not.

    C.T.: "Only in the decadent stages of the white empires."

    When the future USA started importing negroes in the 1600s, it could hardly be accused of being either decadent or an empire. And to repeat, what drove this importation wasn't Christian charity, but the technological necessity occasioned by having the need for laborers accustomed to tropical heat and malaria.

    Another point for you to consider is that Europe, though industrialized AND Christian, also didn't start importing negroes and other non-whites right away. It went more than two centuries before starting to do it on a large scale, evidently following the American model. It first had to perceive a technological need for them.

    Your argument comes down to this: that if ever, in any future scenario, the Chinese, Japanese, or Koreans see that they can benefit themselves by race mixing, they still won't do it, preferring instead whatever the other choice is, be it poverty, submission to foreign conquest, or death. I just don't believe it, and it mystifies me why anyone would believe such obvious nonsense. But since you believe it, maybe you can explain it to me.

    C.T.: " Again, not if..."

    More speculation.

    C.T.: "I’ve never made such a claim."

    When you make such statements as "Only countries who have been Christian have become openly ethno-suicidal." and "The ingredient of the brew that’s killing whites is Christianity ..." it's hard to see any other way to interpret it.

    C.T.: "I wonder which ethnic group he belonged?"

    So did Revilo Oliver, but he couldn't decide.

    C.T.: "Yes: the Roman Empire! But only the Republican Romans kept their blood pure."

    This isn't really a counter-argument. In fact, you are here evidently agreeing with me that expansion is what causes the mixing. But expansion into empire is a technological necessity. Conquer and expand or be conquered and submit. That's just life, the structure of Darwinian reality.

    C.T.: "And the commandment to love the coloured comes directly from the gospel."

    I don't think there's anything in there about "the colored" specifically.

    C.T.: "In a nutshell, technological empire under a Third Reich wouldn’t have been ethno-suicidal."

    More speculation. But no one can know for sure what the future holds. The only thing that seems certain to me is that it would have taken whatever seemed to it at the time to be the best course of action. But then, that was what Alexander did, and what the Roman emperors did, and what the American Founding Fathers did, and we see how that turned out.

    Kaczynski has some interesting insights into this issue in his book Anti-Tech Revolution: Why and How. He points out and gives examples of how little real control leaders actually have over an organization, how revolutionary goals must be achieved quickly or risk not being achieved at all, and how bureaucracies have a life and seemingly a will of their own. Given these facts, speculation into the indefinite future about what the Third Reich would or would not have done if it had been victorious seems nugatory. Of much more value is understanding why such an approach failed.

    Replies: @C.T.

    Yes: Kaczynski is your mentor, Robert Morgan.

    I much prefer Hitler or, on this side of the Atlantic, Pierce.

    Both are speculating, yes: but I really don’t think that the technological Nazis would be mixing their blood right now had the Americans not committed the greatest blunder in all Western history.

  116. Adûnâi: “You are also trying to tell me that thinking ahead is impossible.”

    No, what I’m saying is that two people, or two societies, may look at the same set of facts and come to different conclusions as to what is the best course of action. This is where morality, ideology, or personal preference comes in.

    Adûnâi: “… the outcome is never certain.”

    LOL. It is if you are a determinist! But it doesn’t follow that we will necessarily know what the outcome is until it happens.

    Adûnâi: “You know what I can respond with – that an efficiency-worshipping system would prohibit miscegenation lest the IQ of the population be lowered. ”

    There’s no “efficiency-worshiping system” as you appear to envision it, nor could there be. The multitude of techniques making up the entire system develop in interaction with human values, which may differ or change, and all the interacting parts are connected in ways impossible to know in advance. The result is that no one knows or can control where this system is headed.

    But it is also true that ultimately, in a Darwinian world, the only measure of efficiency is survival. It’s conceivable that IQ isn’t so important for that after all, and in fact it may even cause problems. Cockroaches or bacteria may outlast humans on planet Earth, and if so, they will have in that way proven themselves more efficient.

    • Replies: @Yoska Ruslo
    @Dr. Robert Morgan

    C.T had a severe mental breakdown in the 1980s and unfortunately never recovered, Dr.

  117. @Dr. Robert Morgan
    Adûnâi: "You are also trying to tell me that thinking ahead is impossible."

    No, what I'm saying is that two people, or two societies, may look at the same set of facts and come to different conclusions as to what is the best course of action. This is where morality, ideology, or personal preference comes in.

    Adûnâi: "... the outcome is never certain."

    LOL. It is if you are a determinist! But it doesn't follow that we will necessarily know what the outcome is until it happens.

    Adûnâi: "You know what I can respond with – that an efficiency-worshipping system would prohibit miscegenation lest the IQ of the population be lowered. "

    There's no "efficiency-worshiping system" as you appear to envision it, nor could there be. The multitude of techniques making up the entire system develop in interaction with human values, which may differ or change, and all the interacting parts are connected in ways impossible to know in advance. The result is that no one knows or can control where this system is headed.

    But it is also true that ultimately, in a Darwinian world, the only measure of efficiency is survival. It's conceivable that IQ isn't so important for that after all, and in fact it may even cause problems. Cockroaches or bacteria may outlast humans on planet Earth, and if so, they will have in that way proven themselves more efficient.

    Replies: @Yoska Ruslo

    C.T had a severe mental breakdown in the 1980s and unfortunately never recovered, Dr.

  118. @Franz
    Curious.

    How come postgrads are more likely than oldsters (by a dozen points!)?

    Got an 82 year old neighbor who still works and hasn't missed a day since the mask crap began. He ain't worried or sick.

    What's the hi-IQ crowd message here? Or are they once again proving how correct Orwell was when he said some things are so stupid you have to be a university graduate to believe it?

    Replies: @dfordoom, @anon, @V. K. Ovelund, @Charlotte, @Audacious Epigone

    They’re less harmed from the fallout, particularly the economic fallout, than people of more modest means and abilities are.

  119. @Buzz Mohawk
    Thank you, A.E., for focusing on the mask issue, which I raised recently around here somewhere.

    Is it possible to look at any cross tabs, that sort of thing, to get a better idea of how "mask-positive" people answer on other topics?

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    Not with the YouGov surveys, unfortunately.

  120. @Anonymous
    I wonder if where you live and your age reflects your views on mask wearing more accurately than education.
    My home county is very rural and, outside of the stores in the one big "city" (pop. c. 20K), I rarely see anyone wearing a mask; if I do, it invariably appears to be someone in his or her twenties. I've never seen teens wearing masks and they are the ones most likely to out and about in groups of unrelated individuals. No one older than about 30 seems to bother with a mask, either. Deliverymen all seem to wear a neckerchief that they pull up into a cowboy desperado mask before entering a building, although quite often they forget and leave it down.
    I dropped by the post office this morning and the post mistress had a mask around her neck, but neither of the two customers wore masks as they gossiped with her and each other.
    The clerk at the general store next door was outside smoking a cigarette, maskless. A young woman with a boy about five years old, both maskless, went into the store and did their shopping while he took his last few puffs and ambled back inside to ring up their purchases.
    The county deputy pulled up in his Jeep just as the woman and her boy came out. He had a mask down around his neck. The two began chatting while the boy climbed in the Jeep and fooled around. She leaned against the wall and he put his arm up and rested his hand on the wall while he leaned in to her as they talked. No social distance there.
    Some old people in the park across the way sat on a bench enjoying the sunshine, maskless. A dog wandered by, also maskless. He greeted everyone and got a pet in return. He went into the store and came back out with an old soup bone and trotted off.
    The throwaway weekly tabloid, which most people use to start fires with, had a screaming cover about Covid-19 and breathless stories inside about how county officials were handling the "crisis." The editor had greeted the one and only death of a county resident from the Chinese flu, a 92-year-old woman in a nursing home, as if it had been a grand and glorious event, finally -- finally -- vindicating all the extreme measures being ordered on a skeptical and indifferent citizenry.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok, @Achmed E. Newman, @dfordoom, @Audacious Epigone

    A dog wandered by, also maskless.

    Ha!

  121. @unit472
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The problem with your reply is that it is entirely political and has nothing to do with the medical reality of the virus. When did you determine the virus was not Black Plague 2.0? My guess was it was at some point AFTER China locked down Wuhan. Why did they lock down Wuhan because they KNEW the virus had escaped from their bio lab into their own population. That's also the reason they let planes fly out of China to the rest of the world. If they had unleashed Black Plague 2.0 they were going to make sure the rest of the world got infected too.

    My point, which is, evidently, to0 acute for you to grasp is that once a virus has spread widely it is almost impossible to get it back into the bottle without strick lockdowns and quarantines. I went through this first hand back in 1980 when AIDS broke out in San Francisco. The medical consensus was that infection vectors needed to be shut down and contact tracing done. The political consensus was that would stigmatize male homosexuals so the virus ( although we didn't know it was a virus at first) so the gay bars and bath houses stayed open and the disease spread like wildfire all over the US.

    If your position on Covid is different than your position on AIDS it is YOU who is applying political criterion to a medical issue not I.

    Replies: @Lucius Somesuch, @Adam Smith, @Achmed E. Newman, @Insouciant

    I went through this first hand back in 1980 when AIDS broke out in San Francisco. The medical consensus was that infection vectors needed to be shut down and contact tracing done. The political consensus was that would stigmatize male homosexuals so the virus ( although we didn’t know it was a virus at first) so the gay bars and bath houses stayed open and the disease spread like wildfire all over the US.

    It is precisely AIDS / gay issues that convince me masks – social distancing is not disease control but mind control.

    From mid-December 2019 to mid-April 2020 billboards in numerous places in a mid-sized Midwest city encouraged young Black males posed under a rainbow umbrella to “Love Passionately” — take Gilead’s PrEP pills first, you’ll be fine.
    You can be as reckless as you want, you won’t get AIDS if you take Remdesivir er Truveda or any of the dozen-or-so AIDS drugs Gilead sells. Further more, the pills are free, tho must be monitored by physician, but taxpayers will pay for your costly and repeated doctor visits.

    I should wear a mask “not to protect me but to protect YOU” from a disease I do not have, but it is OK for globohomos to engage in risky behavior because taxpayers will subsidize their risky behavior.

    [Sidebar: Trip to cemetery the other day. Placards all over the cemetery enjoining visitors to Social Distance. No kidding.]

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