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Majority of Black Americans Favor Removing Statues of Founding Fathers
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George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Andrew Jackson are going the way of Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis:

The question included a “not sure” response. It was selected by 22% of those surveyed, so these figures are conservative estimates of deconstruction sentiments . Only 25% of blacks definitively oppose the statues being removed.

In the aughts through the first half of the 2010s, it was commonly asserted in free-thinking forums that blacks were losing their place of prominence as America’s predominant minority. Numerically surpassed by Hispanics and outperformed by America’s rapidly growing Asian population, blacks were being forced to settle into becoming just another member of the coalition. Black concerns became POC problems. Blacks have managed to narrowly push Hillary Clinton past Bernie Sanders in 2016, but by 2020 his progressive coalition of whites, Hispanics, and Asians would carry the day against stubborn black support for the hidebound moderate.

That clearly has not been the case. What blacks want, blacks get. These statues are coming down. All of them. Never mind Stone Mountain being sandblasted–Mount Rushmore is getting wiped clean.

Forget The 1619 Project. That’s going in the wrong direction. The 1965 Project or even The 2008 Project is more apropos.

If it’s any consolation, when synthetic meat is ubiquitous in fifty years, everyone alive today will be made reprobate. Not even the legacies of vegans will be safe–after all, they tolerated a society that permitted the consumption of animal flesh. That’s inexcusable. Who cares if Elon Musk made it to Mars? He ate steak. After that, what forgiveness?

 
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  1. What blacks want, blacks get.

    I dunno. We’ve gotten ‘em under control before.

    That’s pretty much been the norm, right?

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Daniel Williams

    If the dividing lines were simple, no problem. Even today, the problem is not really blacks, it's the young radicals in media and woke capitalists. Blacks can call for what they want, but can be ignored. Which Congressional Black Caucus members can you name who have been leading these movements? Probably none. Blacks are a non-entity and exist politically only as the subjects of news stories in the US. Jewish, Asian, and misc journalists and bosses cannot be ignored. The problem is that the left still needs blacks for at least this election cycle, maybe a couple more after that, for their votes and for guilting some whites into voting for Democrats.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    , @Joseph Doaks
    @Daniel Williams

    "We’ve gotten ‘em under control before."

    That was before the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Since then the policy of the establishment elite has been to kiss black butt at every opportunity --- gotta get that black vote! Except the blacks just keep wanting more. Systemic racism certainly exists --- it's against whites.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Daniel Williams



    What blacks want, blacks get.
     
    I dunno. We’ve gotten ‘em under control before.
     
    The Thirteenth Amendment isn't going away anytime soon, however.

    And when, in 400 years, have they ever covered their costs?

  2. A conquered people generally don’t get to keep monuments to their great leaders unless they’ve been so thoroughly beaten that their new masters think those monuments are quaint.

    So don’t despair. In a generation or so, our overlords will take trips to Mount Rushmore and other White landmarks to admire the artifacts of our once dominant civilization. Our grandchildren can give performances in full costume to show the tourists what life was like when Whites were free and ruled these lands.

    • Replies: @Wency
    @Citizen of a Silly Country


    A conquered people generally don’t get to keep monuments to their great leaders unless they’ve been so thoroughly beaten that their new masters think those monuments are quaint.
     
    Well, they can also keep them if the conquerors basically appropriate them. Thus King Arthur, who if he existed at all was mainly responsible for delaying Anglo-Saxon (i.e., English) expansion for a few decades, is actually part of English heritage.

    You can sort of see this intentional myth-building with "Hamilton", but also a lot of incidents, I think some of them posted by Sailer, where this or that leader is alleged to have been black.
  3. 10 years ago these bars wouldn’t have been 1/2 that tall, and 25 years ago, they’d have been flat-lined (even adding the minuscule “not sure” you would have gotten). Actually, 25 years ago, when this was still a sane country, this question couldn’t have been on a survey just based on the “ask a stupid question” policy. The “WTF?!”response would have been a big bar, up toward 95%.

    That clearly has not been the case. What blacks want, blacks get.

    This has been due to governments at all levels introducing anarcho-tyranny over the last decade, making even talking against this stupidity a taboo, much less doing anything physical.

    These statues are coming down. All of them. Never mind Stone Mountain being sandblasted–Mount Rushmore is getting wiped clean.

    Nah, it’s gonna end before Stone Mountain, IMHO. One of these days a group too large to arrest at one time will form. It would be very exciting for me to be a part of that. It just takes the one 1st time, A.E.

    Who cares if Elon Musk made it to Mars?

    Lots of us. We’ll be jealous that we can’t stay there with him, on what will be no longer known as the Red Planet, but the Sane Planet.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Nah, it’s gonna end before Stone Mountain, IMHO. One of these days a group too large to arrest at one time will form.
     
    I'm dubious. How much do younger people actually care about historical monuments? How many people under 35 know who James Madison was? How many people under 35 could tell you in which century the American Revolution occurred? How many people under 35 can name the presidents commemorated at Mount Rushmore? How many care?

    In the Anglosphere historical and cultural knowledge is pretty much zero among the young.

    And how many people do you honestly think are going to risk arrest, getting fired from their jobs and never being able to get another job and having their entire lives ruined for the sake of resisting the Cultural Revolution?

    Right-wingers have been predicting a massive conservative backlash for years. Such a backlash seems less likely every year.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    , @Joe Stalin
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Who cares if Elon Musk made it to Mars?
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plhWisabXq4
  4. I support the removal of those statues. After all, when a revolution happens, the old monuments and idols must come down and make way for new ones. When Bolsheviks won, they tore down old statues and put up Marx and Lenin statues. When Christians took over Rome, they smashed pagan temples.

    The fact is a revolution as profound as the one in Russia in early 90s happened in the US as well. In Russia, the change was obvious and visible because Communism collapsed and was replaced by gangster capitalism, leading to massive poverty. But in the US, the revolution went mostly unnoticed because the political system continued in operation and also, it was a time of prosperity for the US in the 90s. Good times make people focus on triviality.
    And yet, the US finalized the transition from a Wasp-ruled nation to a BUGS-ruled nation. (Bugs = Busy Urban Globalist Semites.) So, the traditional American statues really should have come down then. Wasps not only ceded power but total moral authority to Jews, and that meant Jews could do as they pleased with white legacy. The construction of Holocaust Museum at the time had great significance. Jews were not only political masters and economic owners but moral gods over America. And Jews meant to turn whites into psychological slaves indentured to serving Zionism and cucking to Jungle Fever(which is now even Jungle Faith for Fentanyl Negro Floyd).

    So, the iconoclasm targeting the Founding Fathers is belated but necessary. US is a BUGS-supremacist nation where Jews promote Magic Negro and Globo-Homo as the new idol and religion. In such a country, it makes no sense for the old icons to remain. Do we want monuments to great men like Washington and Jefferson looking down on streets filled with globo-homo idiots and cucks and black thugs brainwashed by venal BUGS?

    Take them all down, if only to spare the memory of those remarkable men who, for all their flaws, achieved the work of giants.

    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
    @Priss Factor

    Jewish power and influence has waned in America and the world since the 1980s. Globalism was largely a WASP endeavor. It has since been replaced by populist nationalism instigated by a disgusting international union of Slavs, Southern Euros, mixed race people, and German Americans.

    Basically what I'm saying is: unplug your computer and take it back to the thrift store.

    Replies: @MarkU, @Derer

    , @Truth
    @Priss Factor

    Et tu, Prisse!

    , @Derer
    @Priss Factor


    I support the removal of those statues.
     
    Three branches of government ELJ swear to unconditionally defend the US Constitution of the founding fathers, whose statues must be removed. Hell will freeze sooner than that happening. Those that disrespect the struggle of our founding fathers should leave this country.
  5. I suppose it is very politically incorrect to try to think of an alternate-universe America, where slavery never took place, but it seems like a very fascinating sci-fi premiss. I wish I could visit such a world, just to test my theories about what it would look like.

    I can imagine almost countless permutations: economic, political, social, and each suggests a ripple. Could one still stroll into an urban department store, and walk out with a gun? Would there be as many miles of highway? (white flight) How would the language differ? And the pop culture? What would be the per capita spent on education? If you asked about “good schools”, would someone laugh bemusedly at you? What would the space program look like? How might the rest of the world be changed, by a different America?

    I guess the most fascinating question of all might be: where would liberals be on the crazy spectrum, compared to here and now?

    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
    @songbird

    Most everything in your post was ill-founded, but one point really stuck out for me, as a person who is constantly inconvenienced by this country's lack of road:


    Would there be as many miles of highway? (white flight)
     
    The USA has less highway development than most European countries, and this is a major fault, especially considering the extremely low quality of American highways.


    https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/road-density-km-of-road-per-sq-km-of-land-area-wb-data.html


    Road density is the ratio of the length of the country's total road network to the country's land area. The road network includes all roads in the country: motorways, highways, main or national roads, secondary or regional roads, and other urban and rural roads.

    Brazil: 21
    I dia: 125
    Bermany: 180
    Japan: 320
    UK: 172
    Singapore: 473

    USA: 66.74
     

    America's transition to a highway society was started long before white flight did, and was a part of the USA's feeble attempts to become a first world country in the 1930s.

    Replies: @songbird, @Audacious Epigone

    , @Wency
    @songbird

    I think I'm taking the idea from Sailer, but it makes some sense to me: the South would be more like TX, which didn't have nearly as many slaves. For people who've spent a lot of time in each (as I have), there are similarities in their cultures, but TX is more forward-looking, more optimistic, more business-like.

    I think the impact on the rest of the country would be much less. At least through 1965 or so. I mean, would a country that was 90% white (and higher than that in the North and in media depictions) really be that different if it were 100% white?

    My Boomer father tells me that black people were just invisible when he was growing up in the Midwest in the 50s and early 60s. You didn't see them, in person or in media, and you didn't think about them.

    Replies: @songbird

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @songbird

    Ignore the retard John Plywood, Songbird. Your comment is very interesting. There was an alt-history sci-fi (I think, because time travel was involved) book called Bring the Jubilee that had the South winning the war. Of course, that doesn't solve the problems, but I'm just bringing up an example of this kind of interesting speculation.

    Perhaps there is one about just the scenario you bring up. Look under alt-history, but I'm making a big assumption that such a book is one THEY will let you read still.

    Replies: @songbird

  6. What blacks want, blacks get.

    Blacks want chaos and violence, and to feed their egos. You don’t think Blacks (and aligned traitors and resentful invaders to America) are going to stop with statues, do you? With 400 million guns in private hands in America, it seems more likely than ever that millions of Americans— Black/White/left/right/other, will be violently ‘removed’ along with the statues.

  7. @Priss Factor
    I support the removal of those statues. After all, when a revolution happens, the old monuments and idols must come down and make way for new ones. When Bolsheviks won, they tore down old statues and put up Marx and Lenin statues. When Christians took over Rome, they smashed pagan temples.

    The fact is a revolution as profound as the one in Russia in early 90s happened in the US as well. In Russia, the change was obvious and visible because Communism collapsed and was replaced by gangster capitalism, leading to massive poverty. But in the US, the revolution went mostly unnoticed because the political system continued in operation and also, it was a time of prosperity for the US in the 90s. Good times make people focus on triviality.
    And yet, the US finalized the transition from a Wasp-ruled nation to a BUGS-ruled nation. (Bugs = Busy Urban Globalist Semites.) So, the traditional American statues really should have come down then. Wasps not only ceded power but total moral authority to Jews, and that meant Jews could do as they pleased with white legacy. The construction of Holocaust Museum at the time had great significance. Jews were not only political masters and economic owners but moral gods over America. And Jews meant to turn whites into psychological slaves indentured to serving Zionism and cucking to Jungle Fever(which is now even Jungle Faith for Fentanyl Negro Floyd).

    So, the iconoclasm targeting the Founding Fathers is belated but necessary. US is a BUGS-supremacist nation where Jews promote Magic Negro and Globo-Homo as the new idol and religion. In such a country, it makes no sense for the old icons to remain. Do we want monuments to great men like Washington and Jefferson looking down on streets filled with globo-homo idiots and cucks and black thugs brainwashed by venal BUGS?

    Take them all down, if only to spare the memory of those remarkable men who, for all their flaws, achieved the work of giants.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @Truth, @Derer

    Jewish power and influence has waned in America and the world since the 1980s. Globalism was largely a WASP endeavor. It has since been replaced by populist nationalism instigated by a disgusting international union of Slavs, Southern Euros, mixed race people, and German Americans.

    Basically what I’m saying is: unplug your computer and take it back to the thrift store.

    • LOL: El Dato
    • Troll: Anonymousse
    • Replies: @MarkU
    @JohnPlywood

    What a load of garbage.

    How then would you explain why practically every US politician has to swear undying devotion to Israel to get elected? How come Israel gets to commit war-crimes, run an openly apartheid society and ignore international law. How come Israelis can shoot literally thousands of unarmed protesters, including women, children, people in wheelchairs and people clearly labelled as medics or members of the press and escape even censure, let alone consequences. How do you explain the fact that more than 2/3 of the UK parliament are in 'friends of Israel' organisations (only 0.5% of the UK population is Jewish btw) It is also notable that of all the lying garbage thrown at ex UK Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, it was only the ridiculously thin accusations of 'antisemitism' that finally brought him down.

    It is entirely clear that Jewish influence is still wildly disproportionate to Jewish numbers and if anything it is more obvious than ever before.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood

    , @Derer
    @JohnPlywood

    You are probably sitting on a wooden shack porch and shooting everything that moves. Besides posting some illiterate nonsense.

  8. @Achmed E. Newman
    10 years ago these bars wouldn't have been 1/2 that tall, and 25 years ago, they'd have been flat-lined (even adding the minuscule "not sure" you would have gotten). Actually, 25 years ago, when this was still a sane country, this question couldn't have been on a survey just based on the "ask a stupid question" policy. The "WTF?!"response would have been a big bar, up toward 95%.

    That clearly has not been the case. What blacks want, blacks get.
     
    This has been due to governments at all levels introducing anarcho-tyranny over the last decade, making even talking against this stupidity a taboo, much less doing anything physical.

    These statues are coming down. All of them. Never mind Stone Mountain being sandblasted–Mount Rushmore is getting wiped clean.
     
    Nah, it's gonna end before Stone Mountain, IMHO. One of these days a group too large to arrest at one time will form. It would be very exciting for me to be a part of that. It just takes the one 1st time, A.E.

    Who cares if Elon Musk made it to Mars?
     
    Lots of us. We'll be jealous that we can't stay there with him, on what will be no longer known as the Red Planet, but the Sane Planet.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Joe Stalin

    Nah, it’s gonna end before Stone Mountain, IMHO. One of these days a group too large to arrest at one time will form.

    I’m dubious. How much do younger people actually care about historical monuments? How many people under 35 know who James Madison was? How many people under 35 could tell you in which century the American Revolution occurred? How many people under 35 can name the presidents commemorated at Mount Rushmore? How many care?

    In the Anglosphere historical and cultural knowledge is pretty much zero among the young.

    And how many people do you honestly think are going to risk arrest, getting fired from their jobs and never being able to get another job and having their entire lives ruined for the sake of resisting the Cultural Revolution?

    Right-wingers have been predicting a massive conservative backlash for years. Such a backlash seems less likely every year.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @dfordoom

    Nah, you don't get it. I agree that most of the (un-homeschooled) young people on either side don't know squat about the amazing history behind these monuments and statues. That doesn't matter - White people are getting extremely pissed, but haven't shown it yet. You don't know how crowds work at all, though. The left does instinctively.

    At some point, a crowd maybe only 1/10 the size of the peaceful gun rally crowd in Richmond, Virginia this past January, meaning still in the multiple thousands, will get organized to head to the base of Stone Mountain, or wherever. No, they can not all be arrested. Were that tried, there would then be 3 times as many family and friends down at the courthouse. They can not all be doxed, as what's the point after a while?

    Think about this, DforDoom: In 1972, would it have been a big enough strike on one's record, having an arrest for participating in some protest or another, to keep one from getting hired? "We've all had our fun. That's no problem". Right now, yes the HR Ladies on the front lines of the new Commie Establishment will block you. However, if it became impossible to find another electrician who has a clean Social Media record, WTF are they gonna do?

    I am more hopeful than DforDoom on some of this, but not on the economic pain to come.

    (This is where the immigration invasion issue comes in again, though. I was about to write dBase Admin., but yeah, right now, they just replace us with foreigners. That doesn't work in all fields.)

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @dfordoom

  9. “What blacks want, blacks get.”

    The Yale president’s occupied-office event illustrates why. Screaming diversity in your office is no fun. Okay, he says, here’s $50 million. Office peace is now restored. And here’s the key point: It was not his $50 million; he is not personally and tangibly harmed. Similarly, when Mt. Rushmore is demolished, no Whites are personally, tangibly harmed. (The silver lining about the Mt. Rushmore demolition is that perhaps the guys who planted the 911 explosives are still around, and will give a repeat-business discount.)

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @SafeNow


    The silver lining about the Mt. Rushmore demolition is that perhaps the guys who planted the 911 explosives are still around, and will give a repeat-business discount.
     
    Those guys have all been in an unmarked mass grave in the Israeli desert since October 2001.
  10. @songbird
    I suppose it is very politically incorrect to try to think of an alternate-universe America, where slavery never took place, but it seems like a very fascinating sci-fi premiss. I wish I could visit such a world, just to test my theories about what it would look like.

    I can imagine almost countless permutations: economic, political, social, and each suggests a ripple. Could one still stroll into an urban department store, and walk out with a gun? Would there be as many miles of highway? (white flight) How would the language differ? And the pop culture? What would be the per capita spent on education? If you asked about "good schools", would someone laugh bemusedly at you? What would the space program look like? How might the rest of the world be changed, by a different America?

    I guess the most fascinating question of all might be: where would liberals be on the crazy spectrum, compared to here and now?

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @Wency, @Achmed E. Newman

    Most everything in your post was ill-founded, but one point really stuck out for me, as a person who is constantly inconvenienced by this country’s lack of road:

    Would there be as many miles of highway? (white flight)

    The USA has less highway development than most European countries, and this is a major fault, especially considering the extremely low quality of American highways.

    https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/road-density-km-of-road-per-sq-km-of-land-area-wb-data.html

    Road density is the ratio of the length of the country’s total road network to the country’s land area. The road network includes all roads in the country: motorways, highways, main or national roads, secondary or regional roads, and other urban and rural roads.

    Brazil: 21
    I dia: 125
    Bermany: 180
    Japan: 320
    UK: 172
    Singapore: 473

    USA: 66.74

    America’s transition to a highway society was started long before white flight did, and was a part of the USA’s feeble attempts to become a first world country in the 1930s.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @JohnPlywood

    There's no contest. America generally has superior highways despite their deficiencies. Try to find a breakdown lane in Germany. Road density is related to population density - no surprise there.


    America’s transition to a highway society was started long before white flight did
     
    I'm talking about degrees. Not a binary of us not having highways.

    Replies: @Wency, @JohnPlywood

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @JohnPlywood

    It seems like road miles per capita would be more informative than road miles per unit of land area. That there are few roads in northern Alaska, where nobody lives, doesn't tell us much of anything useful--but it depresses America's ranking in a list like this.

  11. The question is if the entire world will succumb to this planet of the apes? One side of the argument is that with the destruction of the USA then there will nobody around to enforce the black worship religion. However there is a very real possibility that the massive population explosion in Africa along with fertility collapse elsewhere that even places like China and India will be forced by their business elite to open their doors to endless blacks. The narratives to “fix their pension crises” or “immigration is good for business” could happen there as well.

    • Replies: @Gordo
    @neutral


    fertility collapse elsewhere that even places like China and India will be forced by their business elite to open their doors to endless blacks. The narratives to “fix their pension crises” or “immigration is good for business” could happen there as well.
     
    They are not nearly insane enough to do that.

    Also Indians run India, Chinamen run China, it's not like here.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    @neutral

    No racial slurs, please.

  12. I keep telling you, White Chad Envy drives this effort to discredit America’s founding fathers. It took high-testosterone badasses to enslave Negroes and make them productive, and these slave owners had no trouble finding white women who wanted to marry them and bear their children. Single white women in the British Isles would even come over on the primitive sailing vessels of the time on their own initiative to find these men to marry, sight unseen. The slave-owning founders put today’s soft, fear-ridden, risk-averse and often women-repelling white American men to shame.

    • Agree: Stan d Mute
    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
    @advancedatheist

    You are confused. Among whites, it is men who are the attractive and desired gender. White women struggle to compete with Asian and Hispanic women for white men, because they are considered better looking than white (especially Anglo) women.

    Also, it was very uncommon for white women to come to America prior to the late 19th century. They were never a part of this country's early history and only arrived when the east coast and transatlantic transportation became safer. Before that they were outnumbered and generally confined to urban east coast areas, far from slave owners. They did not come here and choose white men as free agents (goes to show how fwr feminism has corrupted your mind) but were rather auctioned off in young adulthood, in arranged marriages in which their parents paid dowries to whatever man they considered best for her.

    Replies: @anon

    , @Screwtape
    @advancedatheist

    Exactly. There is a lag between the defeat of a people and the razing of their monuments.

    The People and their culture you speak of were defeated. In no small part by their own decadence and arrogance, separating themselves from their history and the truth about nature.

    They kept their cooperation, conscientiousness, and deferential nature but let their savagery, appetite for risk, and knowledge of violence as natures arbiter atrophy on the shoulders of those giants.

    The echoes of these people remain but for most it is just whimpering mantras about equality and fairness.

    They call out to some dead scrolls, demanding the parchments of those defeated people preserve a Nation for them. A nation they handed over for a handful of feelz long ago.

    People that allow their nation to become decoupled from the land that was tamed, from the lineage that crossed the unknowable seas, and from the God-given faith and providence to become an open source “idea”, a “proposition”, and then lament that it was stolen, deserve what is coming as much as all those other primitives across time who would toss their children into volcanes to make it rain.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @Talha

    , @Ray P
    @advancedatheist

    Ben Franklin was highly sought-after at Hellfire club orgies.

  13. What blacks want, blacks get.

    We shall see how long this lasts. Blacks currently have power at the sufferance of others. They don’t have money, they don’t control the police and the military, they don’t own the industry, and they don’t have the intellectual firepower. And their demographic heft is waning, not growing. Their sole source of power exists on the backs of elite virtue signaling.* I don’t think that’s sustainable particularly as blacks overreach and cities become crime havens again. Consider the possibility that this may be the death throes of black political power in the long run.

    *I tend to think the current negrophilia is simply a mask which a certain segment of the elites is using as a cover to settle scores.

    • Agree: Gordo
    • Replies: @Truth
    @Twinkie

    Et tu, Twinke.

    , @nebulafox
    @Twinkie

    I don't think the other members of the Coalition of the Fringes-at least the ones who aren't affluent enough to not have to care about spoils competition-are going to be content with playing second fiddle to a numerically and socioeconomically inferior demographic long-term.

  14. @dfordoom
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Nah, it’s gonna end before Stone Mountain, IMHO. One of these days a group too large to arrest at one time will form.
     
    I'm dubious. How much do younger people actually care about historical monuments? How many people under 35 know who James Madison was? How many people under 35 could tell you in which century the American Revolution occurred? How many people under 35 can name the presidents commemorated at Mount Rushmore? How many care?

    In the Anglosphere historical and cultural knowledge is pretty much zero among the young.

    And how many people do you honestly think are going to risk arrest, getting fired from their jobs and never being able to get another job and having their entire lives ruined for the sake of resisting the Cultural Revolution?

    Right-wingers have been predicting a massive conservative backlash for years. Such a backlash seems less likely every year.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Nah, you don’t get it. I agree that most of the (un-homeschooled) young people on either side don’t know squat about the amazing history behind these monuments and statues. That doesn’t matter – White people are getting extremely pissed, but haven’t shown it yet. You don’t know how crowds work at all, though. The left does instinctively.

    At some point, a crowd maybe only 1/10 the size of the peaceful gun rally crowd in Richmond, Virginia this past January, meaning still in the multiple thousands, will get organized to head to the base of Stone Mountain, or wherever. No, they can not all be arrested. Were that tried, there would then be 3 times as many family and friends down at the courthouse. They can not all be doxed, as what’s the point after a while?

    Think about this, DforDoom: In 1972, would it have been a big enough strike on one’s record, having an arrest for participating in some protest or another, to keep one from getting hired? “We’ve all had our fun. That’s no problem”. Right now, yes the HR Ladies on the front lines of the new Commie Establishment will block you. However, if it became impossible to find another electrician who has a clean Social Media record, WTF are they gonna do?

    I am more hopeful than DforDoom on some of this, but not on the economic pain to come.

    (This is where the immigration invasion issue comes in again, though. I was about to write dBase Admin., but yeah, right now, they just replace us with foreigners. That doesn’t work in all fields.)

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I agree that Tucker's ratings show people are getting pissed, but black and antifa mobs can form in part because those people have nothing to lose. In the back of every potential white protesters mind is the question "what if I go to protest and nobody else shows up?" cause then you're fucked.

    There is also the long history of failed right-wing resistance in this country. Every time a militia or religious or political community has resisted, it loses. I think that history influences everyone even if they aren't aware of the influence.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    , @dfordoom
    @Achmed E. Newman


    White people are getting extremely pissed
     
    There's no such entity as white people. There are lots and lots of people who happen to be white but most have little in common and white people are hopelessly divided into sub-groups that hate each others' guts. That's not going to change.

    At some point, a crowd maybe only 1/10 the size of the peaceful gun rally crowd in Richmond, Virginia this past January, meaning still in the multiple thousands, will get organized to head to the base of Stone Mountain, or wherever. No, they can not all be arrested. Were that tried, there would then be 3 times as many family and friends down at the courthouse. They can not all be doxed, as what’s the point after a while?
     
    I think you're underestimating the surveillance capabilities of the state (and also non-state actors) and you're underestimating the crusading zeal that you're up against. If such a crowd of multiple thousands gathered would the Wokeists/SJWs go after every single one of them? The answer, unfortunately, is yes. Yes, they would. It wouldn't be necessary to arrest them all, but most of them would find themselves fired from their jobs.

    You're also underestimating the effect that the purging of every single dissident from social media is going to have. Organising large-scale protests will become extremely difficult. And the leadership (such as it is) of such protest movements will be so marginalised as to be unable to exercise any leadership. And there's no such thing as spontaneous protests. Protests have to be organised. Always.

    And it's a certainty that by November every single dissident really will have been purged from social media and most if not all dissident sites will have been shut down (by any means necessary). Would the social media giants really go so far as to purge maybe even as much as 5 percent of their US user base? The answer, unfortunately, is yes. Yes, they would.

    It's no longer a question of whether totalitarianism can be stopped. It's here already. The Thought Police are not what we expected. They don't work for the government. They're the Woke Capital Thought Police and there are no constitutional or legal restraints on them. And they're worse than Orwell's Thought Police because they're doing it because they enjoy it.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Audacious Epigone

  15. President Andy Jackson sought and received authority to use force against South Carolina in the nullification crisis in 1833. He thereby preserved the Union until it was strong enough to defeat the secessionists states in the Civil War which brought about the Emancipation Proclamation.

    Hoisted, good and hard.

  16. Et tu, Aude?

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Truth

    Destruction is easy, construction is hard. The question is not why does destitution and chaos exist--those are the natural states of man. The question is why affluence and order exist.

    Replies: @Truth

  17. @Priss Factor
    I support the removal of those statues. After all, when a revolution happens, the old monuments and idols must come down and make way for new ones. When Bolsheviks won, they tore down old statues and put up Marx and Lenin statues. When Christians took over Rome, they smashed pagan temples.

    The fact is a revolution as profound as the one in Russia in early 90s happened in the US as well. In Russia, the change was obvious and visible because Communism collapsed and was replaced by gangster capitalism, leading to massive poverty. But in the US, the revolution went mostly unnoticed because the political system continued in operation and also, it was a time of prosperity for the US in the 90s. Good times make people focus on triviality.
    And yet, the US finalized the transition from a Wasp-ruled nation to a BUGS-ruled nation. (Bugs = Busy Urban Globalist Semites.) So, the traditional American statues really should have come down then. Wasps not only ceded power but total moral authority to Jews, and that meant Jews could do as they pleased with white legacy. The construction of Holocaust Museum at the time had great significance. Jews were not only political masters and economic owners but moral gods over America. And Jews meant to turn whites into psychological slaves indentured to serving Zionism and cucking to Jungle Fever(which is now even Jungle Faith for Fentanyl Negro Floyd).

    So, the iconoclasm targeting the Founding Fathers is belated but necessary. US is a BUGS-supremacist nation where Jews promote Magic Negro and Globo-Homo as the new idol and religion. In such a country, it makes no sense for the old icons to remain. Do we want monuments to great men like Washington and Jefferson looking down on streets filled with globo-homo idiots and cucks and black thugs brainwashed by venal BUGS?

    Take them all down, if only to spare the memory of those remarkable men who, for all their flaws, achieved the work of giants.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @Truth, @Derer

    Et tu, Prisse!

  18. @Twinkie

    What blacks want, blacks get.
     
    We shall see how long this lasts. Blacks currently have power at the sufferance of others. They don’t have money, they don’t control the police and the military, they don’t own the industry, and they don’t have the intellectual firepower. And their demographic heft is waning, not growing. Their sole source of power exists on the backs of elite virtue signaling.* I don’t think that’s sustainable particularly as blacks overreach and cities become crime havens again. Consider the possibility that this may be the death throes of black political power in the long run.

    *I tend to think the current negrophilia is simply a mask which a certain segment of the elites is using as a cover to settle scores.

    Replies: @Truth, @nebulafox

    Et tu, Twinke.

  19. The local polity can vote on statue removal.

    Removing/defacing a statue by force should be a federal crime that should incur a full 10 years in prison.

    If the residents of a city vote in a referena to pull a statue though………well it -is- their town.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  20. @advancedatheist
    I keep telling you, White Chad Envy drives this effort to discredit America's founding fathers. It took high-testosterone badasses to enslave Negroes and make them productive, and these slave owners had no trouble finding white women who wanted to marry them and bear their children. Single white women in the British Isles would even come over on the primitive sailing vessels of the time on their own initiative to find these men to marry, sight unseen. The slave-owning founders put today's soft, fear-ridden, risk-averse and often women-repelling white American men to shame.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @Screwtape, @Ray P

    You are confused. Among whites, it is men who are the attractive and desired gender. White women struggle to compete with Asian and Hispanic women for white men, because they are considered better looking than white (especially Anglo) women.

    Also, it was very uncommon for white women to come to America prior to the late 19th century. They were never a part of this country’s early history and only arrived when the east coast and transatlantic transportation became safer. Before that they were outnumbered and generally confined to urban east coast areas, far from slave owners. They did not come here and choose white men as free agents (goes to show how fwr feminism has corrupted your mind) but were rather auctioned off in young adulthood, in arranged marriages in which their parents paid dowries to whatever man they considered best for her.

    • Replies: @anon
    @JohnPlywood

    Also, it was very uncommon for white women to come to America prior to the late 19th century.

    You are a boring and stupid troll with yellow fever. Whoever pays to you clutter up comments is not getting their money's worth.

  21. The problem negroes have is nothing they value and admire was created by them so who would they build statues of.

    James Naismith, the inventor of basketball? Sorry he’s a white man. Negroes value TV sets and cell phones highly. The worst negro hovel has a big TV and cell phones quickly became de rigueur for every strutting Leroy and Leroyette in the ghetto. Problem is they too were invented by white men.

    We don’t know the racial views of Naismith but since he was born in 1861 it is likely he was a man of his times and did not consider the negro as the pinnacle of mankind, The same could be said of TV’s creators ,John Baird the Scottish engineer or Philo Farnsworth the American. Martin Cooper the father of the cell phone was a more modern figure so he might be expected to have more modern views but did anyone ever ask? Suppose the negro builds a monument to Cooper only to learn he used the ‘n’ word when he was cut off by a black driver on his way to work at Motorola one day?

    We should also remember that when the negroes wanted a monument to Martin Luther King on the Mall no black American could be found with the requisite skill to carve it so a Chinese artist was given the commission to create the most important monument to a negro in America and it turned out to be a chintzy mini replica of Mount Rushmore. Come to think of it the Martin Luther King Center in Atlanta is little more than a dirty building with a gift shop. The King family having sold off most of his memorabilia the ‘exhibits’ are little more than old newspaper clippings from the 1960’s!

    • Replies: @Gordo
    @unit472


    John Baird the Scottish engineer
     
    No, no,no, always known as John Logie Baird.

    That's like calling H.L.Mencken Harry Mencken!
    , @songbird
    @unit472

    Holocaust memorials are universally ugly, IMO. I suspect that the same thing might be true of modern black monuments - it's been a long time since Augustus Saint-Gaudens cast the Shaw Memorial.

    I think it has something to do with the fact that they are all political art, in the current era - who is going to have the cajones to look at a sketch of a holocaust memorial and say that it is hideous? Who is going to look at the concept of the national lynching museum and say, "Your dirt fetish reminds me of how Dracula took power from his native, Transylvanian soil, which he had shipped to London."

    Replies: @Ray P

    , @Dumbo
    @unit472

    Nothing to do with Negroes. Modern art and architecture mostly sucks, and it's made by White people.

    Also young white people have little knowledge of history and don't care/don't know if a statue of some "old racist" is toppled. There might be a generational conflict as well.

    Holocaust memorials suck because Jews can be good at literature and movies but are usually bad at painting, sculpture and architecture, they have terrible taste, even their modern synagogues are ugly and look like demonic houses from hell. Oh wait... ;)

    https://divisare-res.cloudinary.com/images/dpr_1.0,f_auto,q_auto,w_800/v1527681575/ehua1eemrfrgvhsg0df1/eliezer-armon-architects-bahad-1-synagogue.jpg

    Replies: @neutral, @dfordoom

  22. Once again:

    Men are smarter than women

    Older people are smarter than young people

    Whites are smarter than blacks

    Republicans talk…but do nothing for Whites

  23. During the two greatest conflicts on American soil, the War of Independence and the Civil War, the Europeans have fought alongside Africans against other Europeans and their African allies. Hopefully, the European and African and all other -Americans will read history to understand, be ashamed, but also be proud of their heritage, and to realize who the real enemy is and what their motives are. America has had times of greatness, and times of contempt. But there is nothing in American history that needs to be hidden or forgotten. On the contrary, it should always be presented to remind of the growth, progress and maturity that makes America what it is today. The 1619 narrative, with the premise that labor is the only form of slavery, and the removal of historical statues and monuments, are unconvincing and atrocious attempts to destroy the endemic ideology, moral conviction and fortitude of a nation birthed from an insurrection of slaves.

  24. @advancedatheist
    I keep telling you, White Chad Envy drives this effort to discredit America's founding fathers. It took high-testosterone badasses to enslave Negroes and make them productive, and these slave owners had no trouble finding white women who wanted to marry them and bear their children. Single white women in the British Isles would even come over on the primitive sailing vessels of the time on their own initiative to find these men to marry, sight unseen. The slave-owning founders put today's soft, fear-ridden, risk-averse and often women-repelling white American men to shame.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @Screwtape, @Ray P

    Exactly. There is a lag between the defeat of a people and the razing of their monuments.

    The People and their culture you speak of were defeated. In no small part by their own decadence and arrogance, separating themselves from their history and the truth about nature.

    They kept their cooperation, conscientiousness, and deferential nature but let their savagery, appetite for risk, and knowledge of violence as natures arbiter atrophy on the shoulders of those giants.

    The echoes of these people remain but for most it is just whimpering mantras about equality and fairness.

    They call out to some dead scrolls, demanding the parchments of those defeated people preserve a Nation for them. A nation they handed over for a handful of feelz long ago.

    People that allow their nation to become decoupled from the land that was tamed, from the lineage that crossed the unknowable seas, and from the God-given faith and providence to become an open source “idea”, a “proposition”, and then lament that it was stolen, deserve what is coming as much as all those other primitives across time who would toss their children into volcanes to make it rain.

    • Agree: Anonymousse
    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
    @Screwtape

    Put down the crackpipe, walk away from the computer, and call 911.

    , @Talha
    @Screwtape


    but let their savagery, appetite for risk, and knowledge of violence as natures arbiter atrophy on the shoulders of those giants.
     
    Possibly, but this was fairly recent and I'm not sure exactly when that occurred. The generation of WW2 had plenty of that; the landing at the beaches of Normandy was full of violence, risk and savagery.

    We literally have photos of white women laughing while publicly holding up a coffin with a "nigger baby" when protesting school integration. Some of them may well be alive today (my mother in law is about their age):
    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f3/76/30/f376300401af0df3ea2149332ab86496.jpg

    How did everything crumple so quickly? I'm talking going from one extreme to another within one or two generations. Bizarre.

    Peace.

    Replies: @Joseph Doaks, @Dumbo, @nebulafox

  25. @Screwtape
    @advancedatheist

    Exactly. There is a lag between the defeat of a people and the razing of their monuments.

    The People and their culture you speak of were defeated. In no small part by their own decadence and arrogance, separating themselves from their history and the truth about nature.

    They kept their cooperation, conscientiousness, and deferential nature but let their savagery, appetite for risk, and knowledge of violence as natures arbiter atrophy on the shoulders of those giants.

    The echoes of these people remain but for most it is just whimpering mantras about equality and fairness.

    They call out to some dead scrolls, demanding the parchments of those defeated people preserve a Nation for them. A nation they handed over for a handful of feelz long ago.

    People that allow their nation to become decoupled from the land that was tamed, from the lineage that crossed the unknowable seas, and from the God-given faith and providence to become an open source “idea”, a “proposition”, and then lament that it was stolen, deserve what is coming as much as all those other primitives across time who would toss their children into volcanes to make it rain.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @Talha

    Put down the crackpipe, walk away from the computer, and call 911.

  26. @neutral
    The question is if the entire world will succumb to this planet of the apes? One side of the argument is that with the destruction of the USA then there will nobody around to enforce the black worship religion. However there is a very real possibility that the massive population explosion in Africa along with fertility collapse elsewhere that even places like China and India will be forced by their business elite to open their doors to endless blacks. The narratives to "fix their pension crises" or "immigration is good for business" could happen there as well.

    Replies: @Gordo, @Audacious Epigone

    fertility collapse elsewhere that even places like China and India will be forced by their business elite to open their doors to endless blacks. The narratives to “fix their pension crises” or “immigration is good for business” could happen there as well.

    They are not nearly insane enough to do that.

    Also Indians run India, Chinamen run China, it’s not like here.

  27. @unit472
    The problem negroes have is nothing they value and admire was created by them so who would they build statues of.

    James Naismith, the inventor of basketball? Sorry he's a white man. Negroes value TV sets and cell phones highly. The worst negro hovel has a big TV and cell phones quickly became de rigueur for every strutting Leroy and Leroyette in the ghetto. Problem is they too were invented by white men.

    We don't know the racial views of Naismith but since he was born in 1861 it is likely he was a man of his times and did not consider the negro as the pinnacle of mankind, The same could be said of TV's creators ,John Baird the Scottish engineer or Philo Farnsworth the American. Martin Cooper the father of the cell phone was a more modern figure so he might be expected to have more modern views but did anyone ever ask? Suppose the negro builds a monument to Cooper only to learn he used the 'n' word when he was cut off by a black driver on his way to work at Motorola one day?

    We should also remember that when the negroes wanted a monument to Martin Luther King on the Mall no black American could be found with the requisite skill to carve it so a Chinese artist was given the commission to create the most important monument to a negro in America and it turned out to be a chintzy mini replica of Mount Rushmore. Come to think of it the Martin Luther King Center in Atlanta is little more than a dirty building with a gift shop. The King family having sold off most of his memorabilia the 'exhibits' are little more than old newspaper clippings from the 1960's!

    Replies: @Gordo, @songbird, @Dumbo

    John Baird the Scottish engineer

    No, no,no, always known as John Logie Baird.

    That’s like calling H.L.Mencken Harry Mencken!

  28. @JohnPlywood
    @songbird

    Most everything in your post was ill-founded, but one point really stuck out for me, as a person who is constantly inconvenienced by this country's lack of road:


    Would there be as many miles of highway? (white flight)
     
    The USA has less highway development than most European countries, and this is a major fault, especially considering the extremely low quality of American highways.


    https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/road-density-km-of-road-per-sq-km-of-land-area-wb-data.html


    Road density is the ratio of the length of the country's total road network to the country's land area. The road network includes all roads in the country: motorways, highways, main or national roads, secondary or regional roads, and other urban and rural roads.

    Brazil: 21
    I dia: 125
    Bermany: 180
    Japan: 320
    UK: 172
    Singapore: 473

    USA: 66.74
     

    America's transition to a highway society was started long before white flight did, and was a part of the USA's feeble attempts to become a first world country in the 1930s.

    Replies: @songbird, @Audacious Epigone

    There’s no contest. America generally has superior highways despite their deficiencies. Try to find a breakdown lane in Germany. Road density is related to population density – no surprise there.

    America’s transition to a highway society was started long before white flight did

    I’m talking about degrees. Not a binary of us not having highways.

    • Replies: @Wency
    @songbird


    Road density is related to population density – no surprise there.
     
    Indeed, the UK has about 8x the US population density, and if Plywood's stats are accurate, only 3x the highway density.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood

    , @JohnPlywood
    @songbird

    Wow, that's some pretty incredible enthusiasm about America's highways. One wonders how anyone but a government-paid American troll could say such a thing.

    But you're going to have to come up with something other than emergency stopping lanes as evidence of American superiority. Emergency stopping lanes are seldom used, and make up a minor part of what makes a road. Especially a crumbling American road that literally resembles the surface of Hell.

    When I say American roads are inferior, I mean the roads themselves are of inferior material quality.

    http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,159579,00.html


    Why has the world's highway Goliath become the superpower of potholes? A major reason is that in its haste, America built on the cheap. Across the nation, state and local governments have tended to award competitive contracts to the lowest bidder, often meaning they got the shoddiest materials and the sloppiest work. In addition, the Federal Government has encouraged neglect by subsidizing new construction or major restructuring at 90 cents to the dollar but awarding no subsidies for maintenance work. One expert likens it to not reimbursing drivers for the cost of changing oil in their cars while paying 90% of the price of a valve job. "The attitude was the faster it crumbles, the faster we'll get brand-new," says New York Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, a stalwart highway watcher. Moreover, maintenance is unglamorous. "Nobody ever had a ribbon-cutting ceremony for fixing cracks," notes Moynihan.
     

    But such excuses won't fly in Europe, where miles of smooth-riding, durable autobahns and auto routes put American roadways to shame. European highways actually carry more traffic and considerably heavier truck weights than U.S. roads, yet they are smoother and far sturdier. European highways are designed by their builders to last 40 years; the projected life of American roads is half as long.
     
    Perhaps one of the most important aspects of American highway inferiority is inadequate depth. The highways in Germany are all built below the frost line there, and feature improved drainage as an added protection. American highways always inevitably get buckled by the hydraulic force of frozen earth, much like American homes, leading to the ubiquitous cracks, bumps, potholes, and occasionally catastrophic sinkholing that defines the American commuting experience:

    But some of the most important differences between American and European expressways lie well beneath the surface. All highways are built by bulldozing softer subsoils and either tamping them or replacing them with more durable dirt or gravel. But in Germany the roadbeds tend to be 1.5 m or 1.8 m (5 ft. or 6 ft.) deep, twice the U.S. average. European engineers also devote more time and money to designing roadbeds that resist frost and have excellent drainage, addressing two problems that play havoc with U.S. thoroughfares. Each step, from laying the subsequent gravel or concrete layer to applying the asphalt surface, is taken with long-term durability in mind.
     
    Even the materials used to pave our roads are of inferior quality.

    America's roads are built by amateurs, envisioned by child molesters:


    In fact, many U.S. road builders are small mom-and-pop operations that would be hard pressed to pay for the new equipment and training that innovative techniques sometimes require, let alone to post the insurance bond necessary to guarantee their product over several years. In France, by contrast, the highway-construction business is dominated by half a dozen or so well-financed giants.
     

    Given the emphasis on new construction, U.S. highway designers have badly neglected research and development, which might have kept the roads abreast of mounting traffic. "For many years, the Department of Agriculture spent more % researching dog food than the Department of Transportation did on highways," says Thomas Deen, executive director of the Transportation Research Board. Europeans routinely spend 20 times as much per capita on R. and D. Contractors in Europe add innovative polymers to asphalt and mix new additives into concrete. One additive developed in France -- based on a complex polymer akin to shredded Tupperware plastic -- increased construction costs 8% while doubling the life of a road.
     
    Most of the current used roadways in the United States were constructed or planned well before the white flight era. And I'm aware that the USA has a low population density, which is often correlated with road density. But that does not change the fact that there are less roads per square km in the USA than there are in countries that are 5-15 times smaller. Meaning, as I said, that America has very few roads.

    Replies: @songbird

  29. I’m a little surprised.

    Black people are second only to middle aged white men in disobeying the TV, holding opinions that the dominant culture says you can’t have; e.g., they’re the only non-“other” group that maintains its antipathy toward media-dominant minorities (Jews, gays).

    But this time, TV says “statues down” and only black people snap to obey. Their heart has been struck at—precisely. The iconoclastic mob is the usual Antifa crowd of politicians’ kids, drug bums and cam whores, but average black dudes are the audience cheering at home.

    Well played, Soros et al. You’ve never cracked that demo before.

  30. @Daniel Williams

    What blacks want, blacks get.
     
    I dunno. We’ve gotten ‘em under control before.

    That’s pretty much been the norm, right?

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Joseph Doaks, @Reg Cæsar

    If the dividing lines were simple, no problem. Even today, the problem is not really blacks, it’s the young radicals in media and woke capitalists. Blacks can call for what they want, but can be ignored. Which Congressional Black Caucus members can you name who have been leading these movements? Probably none. Blacks are a non-entity and exist politically only as the subjects of news stories in the US. Jewish, Asian, and misc journalists and bosses cannot be ignored. The problem is that the left still needs blacks for at least this election cycle, maybe a couple more after that, for their votes and for guilting some whites into voting for Democrats.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Chrisnonymous

    A Blexit would be disastrous for Democrat electoral prospects. Trump was the best chance of making that happen--not by talking about low black unemployment, etc etc--but by promising to focus all of America's reconciliation efforts on native blacks. That would've been a long shot, maybe impossible. It's definitely impossible now.

  31. @unit472
    The problem negroes have is nothing they value and admire was created by them so who would they build statues of.

    James Naismith, the inventor of basketball? Sorry he's a white man. Negroes value TV sets and cell phones highly. The worst negro hovel has a big TV and cell phones quickly became de rigueur for every strutting Leroy and Leroyette in the ghetto. Problem is they too were invented by white men.

    We don't know the racial views of Naismith but since he was born in 1861 it is likely he was a man of his times and did not consider the negro as the pinnacle of mankind, The same could be said of TV's creators ,John Baird the Scottish engineer or Philo Farnsworth the American. Martin Cooper the father of the cell phone was a more modern figure so he might be expected to have more modern views but did anyone ever ask? Suppose the negro builds a monument to Cooper only to learn he used the 'n' word when he was cut off by a black driver on his way to work at Motorola one day?

    We should also remember that when the negroes wanted a monument to Martin Luther King on the Mall no black American could be found with the requisite skill to carve it so a Chinese artist was given the commission to create the most important monument to a negro in America and it turned out to be a chintzy mini replica of Mount Rushmore. Come to think of it the Martin Luther King Center in Atlanta is little more than a dirty building with a gift shop. The King family having sold off most of his memorabilia the 'exhibits' are little more than old newspaper clippings from the 1960's!

    Replies: @Gordo, @songbird, @Dumbo

    Holocaust memorials are universally ugly, IMO. I suspect that the same thing might be true of modern black monuments – it’s been a long time since Augustus Saint-Gaudens cast the Shaw Memorial.

    I think it has something to do with the fact that they are all political art, in the current era – who is going to have the cajones to look at a sketch of a holocaust memorial and say that it is hideous? Who is going to look at the concept of the national lynching museum and say, “Your dirt fetish reminds me of how Dracula took power from his native, Transylvanian soil, which he had shipped to London.”

    • Replies: @Ray P
    @songbird

    Is Dracula's Transylvanian earth the original magic dirt?

  32. @Achmed E. Newman
    @dfordoom

    Nah, you don't get it. I agree that most of the (un-homeschooled) young people on either side don't know squat about the amazing history behind these monuments and statues. That doesn't matter - White people are getting extremely pissed, but haven't shown it yet. You don't know how crowds work at all, though. The left does instinctively.

    At some point, a crowd maybe only 1/10 the size of the peaceful gun rally crowd in Richmond, Virginia this past January, meaning still in the multiple thousands, will get organized to head to the base of Stone Mountain, or wherever. No, they can not all be arrested. Were that tried, there would then be 3 times as many family and friends down at the courthouse. They can not all be doxed, as what's the point after a while?

    Think about this, DforDoom: In 1972, would it have been a big enough strike on one's record, having an arrest for participating in some protest or another, to keep one from getting hired? "We've all had our fun. That's no problem". Right now, yes the HR Ladies on the front lines of the new Commie Establishment will block you. However, if it became impossible to find another electrician who has a clean Social Media record, WTF are they gonna do?

    I am more hopeful than DforDoom on some of this, but not on the economic pain to come.

    (This is where the immigration invasion issue comes in again, though. I was about to write dBase Admin., but yeah, right now, they just replace us with foreigners. That doesn't work in all fields.)

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @dfordoom

    I agree that Tucker’s ratings show people are getting pissed, but black and antifa mobs can form in part because those people have nothing to lose. In the back of every potential white protesters mind is the question “what if I go to protest and nobody else shows up?” cause then you’re fucked.

    There is also the long history of failed right-wing resistance in this country. Every time a militia or religious or political community has resisted, it loses. I think that history influences everyone even if they aren’t aware of the influence.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Chrisnonymous


    ... but black and antifa mobs can form in part because those people have nothing to lose.
     
    Yes, but white people will have less and less to lose going forward. It takes a while for many of them to see it though.
  33. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    A conquered people generally don't get to keep monuments to their great leaders unless they've been so thoroughly beaten that their new masters think those monuments are quaint.

    So don't despair. In a generation or so, our overlords will take trips to Mount Rushmore and other White landmarks to admire the artifacts of our once dominant civilization. Our grandchildren can give performances in full costume to show the tourists what life was like when Whites were free and ruled these lands.

    Replies: @Wency

    A conquered people generally don’t get to keep monuments to their great leaders unless they’ve been so thoroughly beaten that their new masters think those monuments are quaint.

    Well, they can also keep them if the conquerors basically appropriate them. Thus King Arthur, who if he existed at all was mainly responsible for delaying Anglo-Saxon (i.e., English) expansion for a few decades, is actually part of English heritage.

    You can sort of see this intentional myth-building with “Hamilton”, but also a lot of incidents, I think some of them posted by Sailer, where this or that leader is alleged to have been black.

  34. @songbird
    @JohnPlywood

    There's no contest. America generally has superior highways despite their deficiencies. Try to find a breakdown lane in Germany. Road density is related to population density - no surprise there.


    America’s transition to a highway society was started long before white flight did
     
    I'm talking about degrees. Not a binary of us not having highways.

    Replies: @Wency, @JohnPlywood

    Road density is related to population density – no surprise there.

    Indeed, the UK has about 8x the US population density, and if Plywood’s stats are accurate, only 3x the highway density.

    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
    @Wency

    The figures you are attempting to do math with are roads pr sq km, not total road mileage. Dumbfuck.

    That road density is associated with population density has nothing to do with the number of highways in the country, which is what songbird was babbling about.

    The United States is 40 times larger than the United Kingdom, but its road density (per square kilometer) is lower. That means fewer highways than the rest of the first world, fewer routes to take you to any one destination. Less development, concrete and asphalt. Exactly what songbird was talking about.

    That's it. I'm well aware of the fact that the USA is sparsely populated and desolate. It's just yet another way in which we are deficient as compared to the rest of the world. That's why I support open borders and unrestricted Asian immigration to the USA, to increase our population to +1 billion and build more highways.

  35. @songbird
    I suppose it is very politically incorrect to try to think of an alternate-universe America, where slavery never took place, but it seems like a very fascinating sci-fi premiss. I wish I could visit such a world, just to test my theories about what it would look like.

    I can imagine almost countless permutations: economic, political, social, and each suggests a ripple. Could one still stroll into an urban department store, and walk out with a gun? Would there be as many miles of highway? (white flight) How would the language differ? And the pop culture? What would be the per capita spent on education? If you asked about "good schools", would someone laugh bemusedly at you? What would the space program look like? How might the rest of the world be changed, by a different America?

    I guess the most fascinating question of all might be: where would liberals be on the crazy spectrum, compared to here and now?

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @Wency, @Achmed E. Newman

    I think I’m taking the idea from Sailer, but it makes some sense to me: the South would be more like TX, which didn’t have nearly as many slaves. For people who’ve spent a lot of time in each (as I have), there are similarities in their cultures, but TX is more forward-looking, more optimistic, more business-like.

    I think the impact on the rest of the country would be much less. At least through 1965 or so. I mean, would a country that was 90% white (and higher than that in the North and in media depictions) really be that different if it were 100% white?

    My Boomer father tells me that black people were just invisible when he was growing up in the Midwest in the 50s and early 60s. You didn’t see them, in person or in media, and you didn’t think about them.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Wency

    I agree that the North was like a European country before the Great Migration. I think there is a great tragedy in how so many people are ignorant about that. Not only foreigners, but young Americans - it is something that should be taught in school - at least a week-long lesson, considering its importance. They should certainly learn about it in Europe. If I were Chinese, I'd want it taught in China.

    Though, even without the Great Migration, I suspect that slavery caused important changes in the North. Very roughly, about 370,000 men from the North died in the Civil War. On a national level, with the total estimate, we're talking like 5% of males - and that's not even figuring for age cohorts. Many of those men didn't have descendants, but would have, if they weren't killed.

    And there is the important issue of state's rights. Perhaps, it was inevitable that they were circumvented, but I imagine the war accelerated the timeline. I wonder, if it's possible that the Spanish-American War might have even been averted - that PR and the Philippines wouldn't have become part of the US - maybe eliminating the Japanese attack on the US, during WW2.

    Or, perhaps, that is going too far. I don't think anyone could really predict the state of things. We'd have to observe it, in order to understand it.

  36. @Screwtape
    @advancedatheist

    Exactly. There is a lag between the defeat of a people and the razing of their monuments.

    The People and their culture you speak of were defeated. In no small part by their own decadence and arrogance, separating themselves from their history and the truth about nature.

    They kept their cooperation, conscientiousness, and deferential nature but let their savagery, appetite for risk, and knowledge of violence as natures arbiter atrophy on the shoulders of those giants.

    The echoes of these people remain but for most it is just whimpering mantras about equality and fairness.

    They call out to some dead scrolls, demanding the parchments of those defeated people preserve a Nation for them. A nation they handed over for a handful of feelz long ago.

    People that allow their nation to become decoupled from the land that was tamed, from the lineage that crossed the unknowable seas, and from the God-given faith and providence to become an open source “idea”, a “proposition”, and then lament that it was stolen, deserve what is coming as much as all those other primitives across time who would toss their children into volcanes to make it rain.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @Talha

    but let their savagery, appetite for risk, and knowledge of violence as natures arbiter atrophy on the shoulders of those giants.

    Possibly, but this was fairly recent and I’m not sure exactly when that occurred. The generation of WW2 had plenty of that; the landing at the beaches of Normandy was full of violence, risk and savagery.

    We literally have photos of white women laughing while publicly holding up a coffin with a “nigger baby” when protesting school integration. Some of them may well be alive today (my mother in law is about their age):

    How did everything crumple so quickly? I’m talking going from one extreme to another within one or two generations. Bizarre.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Joseph Doaks
    @Talha

    "How did everything crumple so quickly?"

    The normies, who never had to deal with blacks, were aghast at the hostility of those Badwhites, who dealt with them daily. The normies, especially Northern white women, wanted to be Goodwhites, and they were the majority.

    Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel, @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    , @Dumbo
    @Talha

    Women are nothing if not conformists and so are always with the majority or the "accepted thoughts". If society is racist, they will be racist. If the society is Nazi, they will be Nazi. If society is communist, they will be communist. If society is Anti-Racist, they will be Anti-Racist.

    As for the men, it's a bit more complex, but basically they end up adapting too, even if with less fanaticism.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    , @nebulafox
    @Talha

    As I previously said, comparisons of Antifa to the soldiers on D-Day skip over the reality that many of those soldiers came from Jim Crow states and almost all would have had views classified as varying degrees of "racist" today. Even the bad guys-then engaged in acts of racially motivated genocide that made the Confederacy look like hippies-tended to have a dim view of things like the KKK. The Nazis used them as a propaganda example of America's general lack of culture.

    There were even black soldiers who stayed on in Germany or France or Britain after the war rather than go back to South Carolina. And the Korean War-the war where the military was integrated-played a huge part in jumpstarting the Civil War movement when black veterans came home from Korea. When you have more rights/respect in the military, where you enter as a grab-tastic unorganized amphibian piece of ***t and your ass belongs to your state by definition, then in civilian life... then something is very, very wrong with your civilian society.

    >How did everything crumple so quickly? I’m talking going from one extreme to another within one or two generations. Bizarre.

    Normally, things change as a glacial pace, but there are windows in history where culture changes very rapidly and becomes unrecognizable to people from just a few decades before. One great example is the Reformation in Europe.

    I don't think that's unique. What is unique is that it has also been touching on more "fundamental" stuff like gender differences.

    Replies: @Talha, @Audacious Epigone

  37. @Daniel Williams

    What blacks want, blacks get.
     
    I dunno. We’ve gotten ‘em under control before.

    That’s pretty much been the norm, right?

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Joseph Doaks, @Reg Cæsar

    “We’ve gotten ‘em under control before.”

    That was before the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Since then the policy of the establishment elite has been to kiss black butt at every opportunity — gotta get that black vote! Except the blacks just keep wanting more. Systemic racism certainly exists — it’s against whites.

  38. @Talha
    @Screwtape


    but let their savagery, appetite for risk, and knowledge of violence as natures arbiter atrophy on the shoulders of those giants.
     
    Possibly, but this was fairly recent and I'm not sure exactly when that occurred. The generation of WW2 had plenty of that; the landing at the beaches of Normandy was full of violence, risk and savagery.

    We literally have photos of white women laughing while publicly holding up a coffin with a "nigger baby" when protesting school integration. Some of them may well be alive today (my mother in law is about their age):
    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f3/76/30/f376300401af0df3ea2149332ab86496.jpg

    How did everything crumple so quickly? I'm talking going from one extreme to another within one or two generations. Bizarre.

    Peace.

    Replies: @Joseph Doaks, @Dumbo, @nebulafox

    “How did everything crumple so quickly?”

    The normies, who never had to deal with blacks, were aghast at the hostility of those Badwhites, who dealt with them daily. The normies, especially Northern white women, wanted to be Goodwhites, and they were the majority.

    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    @Joseph Doaks

    Normie Republicans like to brag that a higher percentage of Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1964 than did Democrats. Republicans in general were more sympathetic to Blacks than were Dems from the time of the Civil War to the 1960s. IMO, it was easy because Republicans lived and worked in areas were there were few Blacks and ones around were their household help and some well-behaved middle class families. Dems lived and worked in the cities or in South, where there were large numbers of Blacks, many of them poorly behaved even then.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    , @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    @Joseph Doaks

    Normie Republicans like to brag that a higher percentage of Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1964 than did Democrats. Republicans in general were more sympathetic to Blacks than were Dems from the time of the Civil War to the 1960s. IMO, it was easy because Republicans lived and worked in areas were there were few Blacks and ones around were their household help and some well-behaved middle class families. Dems lived and worked in the cities or in South, where there were large numbers of Blacks, many of them poorly behaved even then.

  39. @JohnPlywood
    @Priss Factor

    Jewish power and influence has waned in America and the world since the 1980s. Globalism was largely a WASP endeavor. It has since been replaced by populist nationalism instigated by a disgusting international union of Slavs, Southern Euros, mixed race people, and German Americans.

    Basically what I'm saying is: unplug your computer and take it back to the thrift store.

    Replies: @MarkU, @Derer

    What a load of garbage.

    How then would you explain why practically every US politician has to swear undying devotion to Israel to get elected? How come Israel gets to commit war-crimes, run an openly apartheid society and ignore international law. How come Israelis can shoot literally thousands of unarmed protesters, including women, children, people in wheelchairs and people clearly labelled as medics or members of the press and escape even censure, let alone consequences. How do you explain the fact that more than 2/3 of the UK parliament are in ‘friends of Israel’ organisations (only 0.5% of the UK population is Jewish btw) It is also notable that of all the lying garbage thrown at ex UK Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, it was only the ridiculously thin accusations of ‘antisemitism’ that finally brought him down.

    It is entirely clear that Jewish influence is still wildly disproportionate to Jewish numbers and if anything it is more obvious than ever before.

    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
    @MarkU

    What a dumb fuck.

    U.S. politicians support Israel because the majority of Americans support Israel:


    https://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/bxqxx-pchk254ymykdbyfg.png

    Between the unproductive, low IQ Palestinians and the higher IQ, more productive Jews, all rational, unbiased, learned human beings support Israel. Educatee Israel produces world class healthcare and technological products for everyone to enjoy, while peasant Palestine produces basically nothing except the food to feed itself. If you support Palestine over Israel you are a Leftist piece of shit, totally indistinguishable from BLM or La Raza.

    Jewish power has waned with the aging and increasing intermarriage of Jews in America. Only people who live in their parents' basement and spend all day reciting David Duke shit from the year 2005 still believe Jews are significant in America.

    Replies: @Obvious asshole

  40. @SafeNow
    “What blacks want, blacks get.”

    The Yale president’s occupied-office event illustrates why. Screaming diversity in your office is no fun. Okay, he says, here’s $50 million. Office peace is now restored. And here’s the key point: It was not his $50 million; he is not personally and tangibly harmed. Similarly, when Mt. Rushmore is demolished, no Whites are personally, tangibly harmed. (The silver lining about the Mt. Rushmore demolition is that perhaps the guys who planted the 911 explosives are still around, and will give a repeat-business discount.)

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    The silver lining about the Mt. Rushmore demolition is that perhaps the guys who planted the 911 explosives are still around, and will give a repeat-business discount.

    Those guys have all been in an unmarked mass grave in the Israeli desert since October 2001.

  41. I think if Blacks destroy this country, they will harm mainly themselves similar to what Haiti did…most other people have places to retreat to, Blacks do not…

    They will have to continue living amongst the wreakage they created.

    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    @nymom

    Rhodesia and South Africa, too. Never occurred to them and they still had their revenge against White people.

  42. @advancedatheist
    I keep telling you, White Chad Envy drives this effort to discredit America's founding fathers. It took high-testosterone badasses to enslave Negroes and make them productive, and these slave owners had no trouble finding white women who wanted to marry them and bear their children. Single white women in the British Isles would even come over on the primitive sailing vessels of the time on their own initiative to find these men to marry, sight unseen. The slave-owning founders put today's soft, fear-ridden, risk-averse and often women-repelling white American men to shame.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @Screwtape, @Ray P

    Ben Franklin was highly sought-after at Hellfire club orgies.

  43. @songbird
    @unit472

    Holocaust memorials are universally ugly, IMO. I suspect that the same thing might be true of modern black monuments - it's been a long time since Augustus Saint-Gaudens cast the Shaw Memorial.

    I think it has something to do with the fact that they are all political art, in the current era - who is going to have the cajones to look at a sketch of a holocaust memorial and say that it is hideous? Who is going to look at the concept of the national lynching museum and say, "Your dirt fetish reminds me of how Dracula took power from his native, Transylvanian soil, which he had shipped to London."

    Replies: @Ray P

    Is Dracula’s Transylvanian earth the original magic dirt?

  44. @Achmed E. Newman
    10 years ago these bars wouldn't have been 1/2 that tall, and 25 years ago, they'd have been flat-lined (even adding the minuscule "not sure" you would have gotten). Actually, 25 years ago, when this was still a sane country, this question couldn't have been on a survey just based on the "ask a stupid question" policy. The "WTF?!"response would have been a big bar, up toward 95%.

    That clearly has not been the case. What blacks want, blacks get.
     
    This has been due to governments at all levels introducing anarcho-tyranny over the last decade, making even talking against this stupidity a taboo, much less doing anything physical.

    These statues are coming down. All of them. Never mind Stone Mountain being sandblasted–Mount Rushmore is getting wiped clean.
     
    Nah, it's gonna end before Stone Mountain, IMHO. One of these days a group too large to arrest at one time will form. It would be very exciting for me to be a part of that. It just takes the one 1st time, A.E.

    Who cares if Elon Musk made it to Mars?
     
    Lots of us. We'll be jealous that we can't stay there with him, on what will be no longer known as the Red Planet, but the Sane Planet.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Joe Stalin

    Who cares if Elon Musk made it to Mars?

  45. @Wency
    @songbird

    I think I'm taking the idea from Sailer, but it makes some sense to me: the South would be more like TX, which didn't have nearly as many slaves. For people who've spent a lot of time in each (as I have), there are similarities in their cultures, but TX is more forward-looking, more optimistic, more business-like.

    I think the impact on the rest of the country would be much less. At least through 1965 or so. I mean, would a country that was 90% white (and higher than that in the North and in media depictions) really be that different if it were 100% white?

    My Boomer father tells me that black people were just invisible when he was growing up in the Midwest in the 50s and early 60s. You didn't see them, in person or in media, and you didn't think about them.

    Replies: @songbird

    I agree that the North was like a European country before the Great Migration. I think there is a great tragedy in how so many people are ignorant about that. Not only foreigners, but young Americans – it is something that should be taught in school – at least a week-long lesson, considering its importance. They should certainly learn about it in Europe. If I were Chinese, I’d want it taught in China.

    Though, even without the Great Migration, I suspect that slavery caused important changes in the North. Very roughly, about 370,000 men from the North died in the Civil War. On a national level, with the total estimate, we’re talking like 5% of males – and that’s not even figuring for age cohorts. Many of those men didn’t have descendants, but would have, if they weren’t killed.

    And there is the important issue of state’s rights. Perhaps, it was inevitable that they were circumvented, but I imagine the war accelerated the timeline. I wonder, if it’s possible that the Spanish-American War might have even been averted – that PR and the Philippines wouldn’t have become part of the US – maybe eliminating the Japanese attack on the US, during WW2.

    Or, perhaps, that is going too far. I don’t think anyone could really predict the state of things. We’d have to observe it, in order to understand it.

  46. You could see it as the attempt to cash in black chips while they’re still worth anything.

    Desperation move by powerful white people who really really don’t want to lose. Couple weeks ago Barr dropped an axe on SDNY, then Ghislane Maxwell is arrested. Seems far fetched that this has no connection to the riots.

    Prediction: If Trump loses, there will be a big coordinated meme that he needs to get out NOW, no waiting until January inauguration.

  47. Naw, its not eating meat. its owning pets. The horrible suffering of sentient beings. Some were fixed so they could not breed, others trained to do tricks for the amusement of their masters, held in bondage with leash, chain and fence, put down when convenient, young families separated, fish bowels allowed to get dirty.

    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
  48. I agree with Priss. Who cares, take all monuments down. As Lawrence Auster used to say, already ten or fifteen years ago, “It’s not America anymore”. It really isn’t. It should change its name, too.

    Maybe “Wokistan”? Or “United States of Wakanda”?

  49. @songbird
    I suppose it is very politically incorrect to try to think of an alternate-universe America, where slavery never took place, but it seems like a very fascinating sci-fi premiss. I wish I could visit such a world, just to test my theories about what it would look like.

    I can imagine almost countless permutations: economic, political, social, and each suggests a ripple. Could one still stroll into an urban department store, and walk out with a gun? Would there be as many miles of highway? (white flight) How would the language differ? And the pop culture? What would be the per capita spent on education? If you asked about "good schools", would someone laugh bemusedly at you? What would the space program look like? How might the rest of the world be changed, by a different America?

    I guess the most fascinating question of all might be: where would liberals be on the crazy spectrum, compared to here and now?

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @Wency, @Achmed E. Newman

    Ignore the retard John Plywood, Songbird. Your comment is very interesting. There was an alt-history sci-fi (I think, because time travel was involved) book called Bring the Jubilee that had the South winning the war. Of course, that doesn’t solve the problems, but I’m just bringing up an example of this kind of interesting speculation.

    Perhaps there is one about just the scenario you bring up. Look under alt-history, but I’m making a big assumption that such a book is one THEY will let you read still.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Thanks, I hadn't heard of that one - I might just give it a read. I like reading books from that era.

    I read a later one featuring time-travel by Turtledove called The Guns of the South. Has the Boers going back in time to the Civil War to try to get the South to win. Honestly, though it is an interesting premiss, the story unfolds in a really bizarre way, with Lee apparently steering the US on the same political path, by the end, but with the gift of some future technology. In a way, it's kind of interesting how the author's apparent bias steers the story to an improbable conclusion. But, in some ways, Lee is still a sympathetic character - something you wouldn't see today.

    Replies: @nebulafox

  50. @Achmed E. Newman
    @songbird

    Ignore the retard John Plywood, Songbird. Your comment is very interesting. There was an alt-history sci-fi (I think, because time travel was involved) book called Bring the Jubilee that had the South winning the war. Of course, that doesn't solve the problems, but I'm just bringing up an example of this kind of interesting speculation.

    Perhaps there is one about just the scenario you bring up. Look under alt-history, but I'm making a big assumption that such a book is one THEY will let you read still.

    Replies: @songbird

    Thanks, I hadn’t heard of that one – I might just give it a read. I like reading books from that era.

    I read a later one featuring time-travel by Turtledove called The Guns of the South. Has the Boers going back in time to the Civil War to try to get the South to win. Honestly, though it is an interesting premiss, the story unfolds in a really bizarre way, with Lee apparently steering the US on the same political path, by the end, but with the gift of some future technology. In a way, it’s kind of interesting how the author’s apparent bias steers the story to an improbable conclusion. But, in some ways, Lee is still a sympathetic character – something you wouldn’t see today.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @songbird

    I've never found that plausible. Slavery was an archaic economic system that was requiring increasing amounts of state resources to artificially maintain by the mid-19th Century. Even some eventual Confederate leaders-among them Lee-recognized this and favored gradual, long-term dismantlement prior to the war, even if they continued to believe in white supremacy and a racial caste system. Of course, this dismantlement was to take place under Southern control according to a Southern timeline, and the North was already disgruntled about having their tax dollars spent propping up the plantation system without them having a say in anything. The fact that slavery was being artificially propped up for the benefit of a minority of agrarian plutocrats was one of the big factors behind the Civil War in the first place: not as big as the spread of slavery to new territories, but a crucial factor nonetheless.

    Should the Confederacy have succeeded-and it could have-it would have likely become a backwater rural dystopia that would have held onto the system as long as possible, given the ideological conditioning caused by the war. Slavery was not some engine of economic growth: it was a deeply retarding force. That's why 1619-esque arguments about slavery being the engine of America's success are so ludicrous. If that were true, Brazil would be mega-Switzerland right now.

    Replies: @songbird, @Anonymous, @RSDB

  51. Most of the demonstrators are upper class and upper middle class young people, and many of them are girls. BLM has been captured by white Antifa, and it is now serving white purposes. The current civil unrest is a war between white elites, Turchin’s surplus elites. Blacks, as usual, have been pushed aside.

    • Replies: @OscarWildeLoveChild
    @bob sykes

    This is, and always has been, a war between evil whites (be they Jews or Anglicans, Roman Catholics, etc) and God-fearing whites (Remnant Jews, found all over Europe, in various elements of the lost tribes). Huguenots vs. Roman Catholics, The English Civil War, the American Civil War, and on and on.

    So of course it was "hijacked" because demonic whites, are leading the forces of Satan against all that is good and pure--and doing it on every front (transgender, abortion, race). It will be up to the other (good) whites to fight them, until Jesus comes and sorts all this out.

    This is just a continuation of the same immortal battle.

  52. Apparently BLM also dislike statues of elk…. I do not understand… Can anyone explain this….

    PEACE 😇
    _______

    https://www.breitbart.com/crime/2020/07/02/video-rioters-set-fire-to-historic-thompson-elk-fountain-in-portland/

  53. Glad to see hispanics not too far off the White numbers on this issue, an indication that they might not be willing footsoldiers, as of yet anyway in an anti White genocidal roundup scenario.

  54. @Joseph Doaks
    @Talha

    "How did everything crumple so quickly?"

    The normies, who never had to deal with blacks, were aghast at the hostility of those Badwhites, who dealt with them daily. The normies, especially Northern white women, wanted to be Goodwhites, and they were the majority.

    Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel, @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    Normie Republicans like to brag that a higher percentage of Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1964 than did Democrats. Republicans in general were more sympathetic to Blacks than were Dems from the time of the Civil War to the 1960s. IMO, it was easy because Republicans lived and worked in areas were there were few Blacks and ones around were their household help and some well-behaved middle class families. Dems lived and worked in the cities or in South, where there were large numbers of Blacks, many of them poorly behaved even then.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    This perspective is an intriguing one but the glaring problem is that today urban whites are the most pro-black whites in the country, while rural whites are the least so. How does that square?

    Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

  55. @Joseph Doaks
    @Talha

    "How did everything crumple so quickly?"

    The normies, who never had to deal with blacks, were aghast at the hostility of those Badwhites, who dealt with them daily. The normies, especially Northern white women, wanted to be Goodwhites, and they were the majority.

    Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel, @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    Normie Republicans like to brag that a higher percentage of Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1964 than did Democrats. Republicans in general were more sympathetic to Blacks than were Dems from the time of the Civil War to the 1960s. IMO, it was easy because Republicans lived and worked in areas were there were few Blacks and ones around were their household help and some well-behaved middle class families. Dems lived and worked in the cities or in South, where there were large numbers of Blacks, many of them poorly behaved even then.

  56. @nymom
    I think if Blacks destroy this country, they will harm mainly themselves similar to what Haiti did...most other people have places to retreat to, Blacks do not...

    They will have to continue living amongst the wreakage they created.

    Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    Rhodesia and South Africa, too. Never occurred to them and they still had their revenge against White people.

  57. There must have been plenty of pre 1965 elected Republicans who were pro-White on immigration (in favor of retaining pro Europe national origins act) and also pro Black civil rights, a form of Civic Nationalism perhaps.

    • Agree: Talha
  58. Black Culture is never morally shamed.

    It’s time to start.

    • Agree: Joseph Doaks
  59. @Achmed E. Newman
    @dfordoom

    Nah, you don't get it. I agree that most of the (un-homeschooled) young people on either side don't know squat about the amazing history behind these monuments and statues. That doesn't matter - White people are getting extremely pissed, but haven't shown it yet. You don't know how crowds work at all, though. The left does instinctively.

    At some point, a crowd maybe only 1/10 the size of the peaceful gun rally crowd in Richmond, Virginia this past January, meaning still in the multiple thousands, will get organized to head to the base of Stone Mountain, or wherever. No, they can not all be arrested. Were that tried, there would then be 3 times as many family and friends down at the courthouse. They can not all be doxed, as what's the point after a while?

    Think about this, DforDoom: In 1972, would it have been a big enough strike on one's record, having an arrest for participating in some protest or another, to keep one from getting hired? "We've all had our fun. That's no problem". Right now, yes the HR Ladies on the front lines of the new Commie Establishment will block you. However, if it became impossible to find another electrician who has a clean Social Media record, WTF are they gonna do?

    I am more hopeful than DforDoom on some of this, but not on the economic pain to come.

    (This is where the immigration invasion issue comes in again, though. I was about to write dBase Admin., but yeah, right now, they just replace us with foreigners. That doesn't work in all fields.)

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @dfordoom

    White people are getting extremely pissed

    There’s no such entity as white people. There are lots and lots of people who happen to be white but most have little in common and white people are hopelessly divided into sub-groups that hate each others’ guts. That’s not going to change.

    At some point, a crowd maybe only 1/10 the size of the peaceful gun rally crowd in Richmond, Virginia this past January, meaning still in the multiple thousands, will get organized to head to the base of Stone Mountain, or wherever. No, they can not all be arrested. Were that tried, there would then be 3 times as many family and friends down at the courthouse. They can not all be doxed, as what’s the point after a while?

    I think you’re underestimating the surveillance capabilities of the state (and also non-state actors) and you’re underestimating the crusading zeal that you’re up against. If such a crowd of multiple thousands gathered would the Wokeists/SJWs go after every single one of them? The answer, unfortunately, is yes. Yes, they would. It wouldn’t be necessary to arrest them all, but most of them would find themselves fired from their jobs.

    You’re also underestimating the effect that the purging of every single dissident from social media is going to have. Organising large-scale protests will become extremely difficult. And the leadership (such as it is) of such protest movements will be so marginalised as to be unable to exercise any leadership. And there’s no such thing as spontaneous protests. Protests have to be organised. Always.

    And it’s a certainty that by November every single dissident really will have been purged from social media and most if not all dissident sites will have been shut down (by any means necessary). Would the social media giants really go so far as to purge maybe even as much as 5 percent of their US user base? The answer, unfortunately, is yes. Yes, they would.

    It’s no longer a question of whether totalitarianism can be stopped. It’s here already. The Thought Police are not what we expected. They don’t work for the government. They’re the Woke Capital Thought Police and there are no constitutional or legal restraints on them. And they’re worse than Orwell’s Thought Police because they’re doing it because they enjoy it.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @dfordoom

    Well, you're really living up to your handle on this thread, I gotta say. I don't agree with most of your points. Let me just address your naysaying with:

    1) Read your Solzhenitsyn.

    2) We'll see. I hope to be a part of it.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @dfordoom

    This is why political orientation as a legally protected class is critical--and as such, will never be permitted. That ship has sailed.

  60. @Wency
    @songbird


    Road density is related to population density – no surprise there.
     
    Indeed, the UK has about 8x the US population density, and if Plywood's stats are accurate, only 3x the highway density.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood

    The figures you are attempting to do math with are roads pr sq km, not total road mileage. Dumbfuck.

    That road density is associated with population density has nothing to do with the number of highways in the country, which is what songbird was babbling about.

    The United States is 40 times larger than the United Kingdom, but its road density (per square kilometer) is lower. That means fewer highways than the rest of the first world, fewer routes to take you to any one destination. Less development, concrete and asphalt. Exactly what songbird was talking about.

    That’s it. I’m well aware of the fact that the USA is sparsely populated and desolate. It’s just yet another way in which we are deficient as compared to the rest of the world. That’s why I support open borders and unrestricted Asian immigration to the USA, to increase our population to +1 billion and build more highways.

  61. @JohnPlywood
    @advancedatheist

    You are confused. Among whites, it is men who are the attractive and desired gender. White women struggle to compete with Asian and Hispanic women for white men, because they are considered better looking than white (especially Anglo) women.

    Also, it was very uncommon for white women to come to America prior to the late 19th century. They were never a part of this country's early history and only arrived when the east coast and transatlantic transportation became safer. Before that they were outnumbered and generally confined to urban east coast areas, far from slave owners. They did not come here and choose white men as free agents (goes to show how fwr feminism has corrupted your mind) but were rather auctioned off in young adulthood, in arranged marriages in which their parents paid dowries to whatever man they considered best for her.

    Replies: @anon

    Also, it was very uncommon for white women to come to America prior to the late 19th century.

    You are a boring and stupid troll with yellow fever. Whoever pays to you clutter up comments is not getting their money’s worth.

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
  62. @Twinkie

    What blacks want, blacks get.
     
    We shall see how long this lasts. Blacks currently have power at the sufferance of others. They don’t have money, they don’t control the police and the military, they don’t own the industry, and they don’t have the intellectual firepower. And their demographic heft is waning, not growing. Their sole source of power exists on the backs of elite virtue signaling.* I don’t think that’s sustainable particularly as blacks overreach and cities become crime havens again. Consider the possibility that this may be the death throes of black political power in the long run.

    *I tend to think the current negrophilia is simply a mask which a certain segment of the elites is using as a cover to settle scores.

    Replies: @Truth, @nebulafox

    I don’t think the other members of the Coalition of the Fringes-at least the ones who aren’t affluent enough to not have to care about spoils competition-are going to be content with playing second fiddle to a numerically and socioeconomically inferior demographic long-term.

  63. @songbird
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Thanks, I hadn't heard of that one - I might just give it a read. I like reading books from that era.

    I read a later one featuring time-travel by Turtledove called The Guns of the South. Has the Boers going back in time to the Civil War to try to get the South to win. Honestly, though it is an interesting premiss, the story unfolds in a really bizarre way, with Lee apparently steering the US on the same political path, by the end, but with the gift of some future technology. In a way, it's kind of interesting how the author's apparent bias steers the story to an improbable conclusion. But, in some ways, Lee is still a sympathetic character - something you wouldn't see today.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    I’ve never found that plausible. Slavery was an archaic economic system that was requiring increasing amounts of state resources to artificially maintain by the mid-19th Century. Even some eventual Confederate leaders-among them Lee-recognized this and favored gradual, long-term dismantlement prior to the war, even if they continued to believe in white supremacy and a racial caste system. Of course, this dismantlement was to take place under Southern control according to a Southern timeline, and the North was already disgruntled about having their tax dollars spent propping up the plantation system without them having a say in anything. The fact that slavery was being artificially propped up for the benefit of a minority of agrarian plutocrats was one of the big factors behind the Civil War in the first place: not as big as the spread of slavery to new territories, but a crucial factor nonetheless.

    Should the Confederacy have succeeded-and it could have-it would have likely become a backwater rural dystopia that would have held onto the system as long as possible, given the ideological conditioning caused by the war. Slavery was not some engine of economic growth: it was a deeply retarding force. That’s why 1619-esque arguments about slavery being the engine of America’s success are so ludicrous. If that were true, Brazil would be mega-Switzerland right now.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @nebulafox

    In some ways, South Africa was a technically advanced country. It took some time to get there and it was uneven - I think they had old time radio shows into the early 1970s because they didn't have much of the infrastructure for TV. But they developed a nuclear bomb and the first human heart transplant took place there. (though, in a way, it was a failure, because the immuno-suppressants used caused death less than three weeks later.)

    But the South would have had more whites. I think it would have been an advanced country, eventually. Perhaps, falling into the same demographic trap as South Africa, but over a much longer course of time.

    Maybe, the Great Migration still would have happened, since the distances would remain the same.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    , @Anonymous
    @nebulafox

    The South would have become similar to Brazil, perhaps Mexico North. It might have expanded in Mexico. "Dixie" as we know it today would have barrios, rich whites, and a huge crime rate.

    , @RSDB
    @nebulafox


    I’ve never found that plausible.

    ...
    some eventual Confederate leaders-among them Lee-recognized this and favored gradual, long-term dismantlement prior to the war, even if they continued to believe in white supremacy and a racial caste system. Of course, this dismantlement was to take place under Southern control according to a Southern timeline


     
    You haven't read "The Guns of the South"; this is in fact the plot.
  64. I forgot to mention foreign aid in my alt-history scenario. It has done a lot of harm in the world, IMO. I think the Black Caucus is partly responsible for it, but philosophically the continuance of it may be partly due to the idea that giving up on Africa would mean giving up on blacks in America.

  65. These blacks aren’t doing this by themselves. They mill around a lot and commit most of the crimes but strategy is beyond their pay grade. Its the Zionists again. They hate America, and their globalism scheme is now unraveling.

    Stop feeding the animals. They will see a population crash. China won’t be charitable.

    This faux “Judeo-Christian” charity has made this problem.

    The blacks are like tribbles. DO NOT FEED THEM.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    @Dr. Doom

    A great deal of Africa, as well as Africans elsewhere, are dependent upon all sorts of aid (food, housing, clothing, medical).  If they were cut off from that aid, they would starve, freeze or otherwise perish.

    We should let that happen.  ASAP.

  66. @dfordoom
    @Achmed E. Newman


    White people are getting extremely pissed
     
    There's no such entity as white people. There are lots and lots of people who happen to be white but most have little in common and white people are hopelessly divided into sub-groups that hate each others' guts. That's not going to change.

    At some point, a crowd maybe only 1/10 the size of the peaceful gun rally crowd in Richmond, Virginia this past January, meaning still in the multiple thousands, will get organized to head to the base of Stone Mountain, or wherever. No, they can not all be arrested. Were that tried, there would then be 3 times as many family and friends down at the courthouse. They can not all be doxed, as what’s the point after a while?
     
    I think you're underestimating the surveillance capabilities of the state (and also non-state actors) and you're underestimating the crusading zeal that you're up against. If such a crowd of multiple thousands gathered would the Wokeists/SJWs go after every single one of them? The answer, unfortunately, is yes. Yes, they would. It wouldn't be necessary to arrest them all, but most of them would find themselves fired from their jobs.

    You're also underestimating the effect that the purging of every single dissident from social media is going to have. Organising large-scale protests will become extremely difficult. And the leadership (such as it is) of such protest movements will be so marginalised as to be unable to exercise any leadership. And there's no such thing as spontaneous protests. Protests have to be organised. Always.

    And it's a certainty that by November every single dissident really will have been purged from social media and most if not all dissident sites will have been shut down (by any means necessary). Would the social media giants really go so far as to purge maybe even as much as 5 percent of their US user base? The answer, unfortunately, is yes. Yes, they would.

    It's no longer a question of whether totalitarianism can be stopped. It's here already. The Thought Police are not what we expected. They don't work for the government. They're the Woke Capital Thought Police and there are no constitutional or legal restraints on them. And they're worse than Orwell's Thought Police because they're doing it because they enjoy it.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Audacious Epigone

    Well, you’re really living up to your handle on this thread, I gotta say. I don’t agree with most of your points. Let me just address your naysaying with:

    1) Read your Solzhenitsyn.

    2) We’ll see. I hope to be a part of it.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Well, you’re really living up to your handle on this thread, I gotta say. I don’t agree with most of your points.
     

    We’ll see. I hope to be a part of it.

     

    I hope you're right and I'm wrong if that's any consolation.

    We'll have a much clearer picture by the end of the year. By then we'll probably know just how far the crackdown on dissidents is going to go.

    And which candidate wins in November there are going to be protests and attempts to contest the legitimacy of the result. It will be interesting to see how energetic these attempts will be, and how successful.

    Maybe you're being too optimistic and I'm being too pessimistic. I always figure it's good to be a pessimist because when things turn out badly, but not as badly as you expected, you get a pleasant surprise.

    Replies: @Talha

  67. @nebulafox
    @songbird

    I've never found that plausible. Slavery was an archaic economic system that was requiring increasing amounts of state resources to artificially maintain by the mid-19th Century. Even some eventual Confederate leaders-among them Lee-recognized this and favored gradual, long-term dismantlement prior to the war, even if they continued to believe in white supremacy and a racial caste system. Of course, this dismantlement was to take place under Southern control according to a Southern timeline, and the North was already disgruntled about having their tax dollars spent propping up the plantation system without them having a say in anything. The fact that slavery was being artificially propped up for the benefit of a minority of agrarian plutocrats was one of the big factors behind the Civil War in the first place: not as big as the spread of slavery to new territories, but a crucial factor nonetheless.

    Should the Confederacy have succeeded-and it could have-it would have likely become a backwater rural dystopia that would have held onto the system as long as possible, given the ideological conditioning caused by the war. Slavery was not some engine of economic growth: it was a deeply retarding force. That's why 1619-esque arguments about slavery being the engine of America's success are so ludicrous. If that were true, Brazil would be mega-Switzerland right now.

    Replies: @songbird, @Anonymous, @RSDB

    In some ways, South Africa was a technically advanced country. It took some time to get there and it was uneven – I think they had old time radio shows into the early 1970s because they didn’t have much of the infrastructure for TV. But they developed a nuclear bomb and the first human heart transplant took place there. (though, in a way, it was a failure, because the immuno-suppressants used caused death less than three weeks later.)

    But the South would have had more whites. I think it would have been an advanced country, eventually. Perhaps, falling into the same demographic trap as South Africa, but over a much longer course of time.

    Maybe, the Great Migration still would have happened, since the distances would remain the same.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @songbird

    Apartheid South Africa was not an agrarian country relying off slavery, though: the British Empire had banned slavery in the 1830s. South Africa industralized rapidly around the late 19th Century, like a lot of other nations.

    To clarify, I'm not talking about racial caste systems in general. I'm arguing that slavery specifically, as an economic system, retards a nation in an industrial age, not least due to its inherent pro-rural oligarch nature. That archaic system was what the Confederacy was ideologically defending, not 1950s Jim Crow, and it's hard to imagine a Confederate victory scenario where they'd give it up for a good long while after having fought so hard to keep it.

    >But the South would have had more whites. I think it would have been an advanced country, eventually. Perhaps, falling into the same demographic trap as South Africa, but over a much longer course of time.

    I'm not certain about that: oligarchic rentier economies tend to also dull birth rates outside of the top (plantation owners) and bottom (slaves) of society. Even in the 21st Century, that's apparent: just look at modern America.

    Replies: @songbird

  68. @Chrisnonymous
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I agree that Tucker's ratings show people are getting pissed, but black and antifa mobs can form in part because those people have nothing to lose. In the back of every potential white protesters mind is the question "what if I go to protest and nobody else shows up?" cause then you're fucked.

    There is also the long history of failed right-wing resistance in this country. Every time a militia or religious or political community has resisted, it loses. I think that history influences everyone even if they aren't aware of the influence.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    … but black and antifa mobs can form in part because those people have nothing to lose.

    Yes, but white people will have less and less to lose going forward. It takes a while for many of them to see it though.

  69. @songbird
    @JohnPlywood

    There's no contest. America generally has superior highways despite their deficiencies. Try to find a breakdown lane in Germany. Road density is related to population density - no surprise there.


    America’s transition to a highway society was started long before white flight did
     
    I'm talking about degrees. Not a binary of us not having highways.

    Replies: @Wency, @JohnPlywood

    Wow, that’s some pretty incredible enthusiasm about America’s highways. One wonders how anyone but a government-paid American troll could say such a thing.

    But you’re going to have to come up with something other than emergency stopping lanes as evidence of American superiority. Emergency stopping lanes are seldom used, and make up a minor part of what makes a road. Especially a crumbling American road that literally resembles the surface of Hell.

    When I say American roads are inferior, I mean the roads themselves are of inferior material quality.

    http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,159579,00.html

    Why has the world’s highway Goliath become the superpower of potholes? A major reason is that in its haste, America built on the cheap. Across the nation, state and local governments have tended to award competitive contracts to the lowest bidder, often meaning they got the shoddiest materials and the sloppiest work. In addition, the Federal Government has encouraged neglect by subsidizing new construction or major restructuring at 90 cents to the dollar but awarding no subsidies for maintenance work. One expert likens it to not reimbursing drivers for the cost of changing oil in their cars while paying 90% of the price of a valve job. “The attitude was the faster it crumbles, the faster we’ll get brand-new,” says New York Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, a stalwart highway watcher. Moreover, maintenance is unglamorous. “Nobody ever had a ribbon-cutting ceremony for fixing cracks,” notes Moynihan.

    But such excuses won’t fly in Europe, where miles of smooth-riding, durable autobahns and auto routes put American roadways to shame. European highways actually carry more traffic and considerably heavier truck weights than U.S. roads, yet they are smoother and far sturdier. European highways are designed by their builders to last 40 years; the projected life of American roads is half as long.

    Perhaps one of the most important aspects of American highway inferiority is inadequate depth. The highways in Germany are all built below the frost line there, and feature improved drainage as an added protection. American highways always inevitably get buckled by the hydraulic force of frozen earth, much like American homes, leading to the ubiquitous cracks, bumps, potholes, and occasionally catastrophic sinkholing that defines the American commuting experience:

    But some of the most important differences between American and European expressways lie well beneath the surface. All highways are built by bulldozing softer subsoils and either tamping them or replacing them with more durable dirt or gravel. But in Germany the roadbeds tend to be 1.5 m or 1.8 m (5 ft. or 6 ft.) deep, twice the U.S. average. European engineers also devote more time and money to designing roadbeds that resist frost and have excellent drainage, addressing two problems that play havoc with U.S. thoroughfares. Each step, from laying the subsequent gravel or concrete layer to applying the asphalt surface, is taken with long-term durability in mind.

    Even the materials used to pave our roads are of inferior quality.

    America’s roads are built by amateurs, envisioned by child molesters:

    In fact, many U.S. road builders are small mom-and-pop operations that would be hard pressed to pay for the new equipment and training that innovative techniques sometimes require, let alone to post the insurance bond necessary to guarantee their product over several years. In France, by contrast, the highway-construction business is dominated by half a dozen or so well-financed giants.

    Given the emphasis on new construction, U.S. highway designers have badly neglected research and development, which might have kept the roads abreast of mounting traffic. “For many years, the Department of Agriculture spent more % researching dog food than the Department of Transportation did on highways,” says Thomas Deen, executive director of the Transportation Research Board. Europeans routinely spend 20 times as much per capita on R. and D. Contractors in Europe add innovative polymers to asphalt and mix new additives into concrete. One additive developed in France — based on a complex polymer akin to shredded Tupperware plastic — increased construction costs 8% while doubling the life of a road.

    Most of the current used roadways in the United States were constructed or planned well before the white flight era. And I’m aware that the USA has a low population density, which is often correlated with road density. But that does not change the fact that there are less roads per square km in the USA than there are in countries that are 5-15 times smaller. Meaning, as I said, that America has very few roads.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @JohnPlywood

    Single lane roads are much easier to build and maintain than highways of multiple lanes which are common in the US.

    Europe has a very high gasoline tax. It is generally more expensive to own a car, and not just because of gas. I'd say they have pretty bad roads considering. If I was paying that, I'd want my own, private, air-conditioned tunnel.

    Not to exculpate the road bureaucracy in America - many horror stories there.

    Replies: @Mr. Rational

  70. @songbird
    @nebulafox

    In some ways, South Africa was a technically advanced country. It took some time to get there and it was uneven - I think they had old time radio shows into the early 1970s because they didn't have much of the infrastructure for TV. But they developed a nuclear bomb and the first human heart transplant took place there. (though, in a way, it was a failure, because the immuno-suppressants used caused death less than three weeks later.)

    But the South would have had more whites. I think it would have been an advanced country, eventually. Perhaps, falling into the same demographic trap as South Africa, but over a much longer course of time.

    Maybe, the Great Migration still would have happened, since the distances would remain the same.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    Apartheid South Africa was not an agrarian country relying off slavery, though: the British Empire had banned slavery in the 1830s. South Africa industralized rapidly around the late 19th Century, like a lot of other nations.

    To clarify, I’m not talking about racial caste systems in general. I’m arguing that slavery specifically, as an economic system, retards a nation in an industrial age, not least due to its inherent pro-rural oligarch nature. That archaic system was what the Confederacy was ideologically defending, not 1950s Jim Crow, and it’s hard to imagine a Confederate victory scenario where they’d give it up for a good long while after having fought so hard to keep it.

    >But the South would have had more whites. I think it would have been an advanced country, eventually. Perhaps, falling into the same demographic trap as South Africa, but over a much longer course of time.

    I’m not certain about that: oligarchic rentier economies tend to also dull birth rates outside of the top (plantation owners) and bottom (slaves) of society. Even in the 21st Century, that’s apparent: just look at modern America.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @nebulafox

    Thais still practiced human sacrifice at that time, and they branded their slaves, and did some executions by burning, but they still gave up slavery eventually. Perhaps, somewhat under the influence of the outcome of the American Civil War, but I think they would have given it up anyway.

    Perhaps, I am being fanciful, but I think it's possible that whites find slavery more distasteful than most other people do. I believe slaves could work one day a week or so and keep their wages - I don't know where else than in the West that that happened. And I don't think the poorer whites would have stood for it much longer. I think it would have quickly turned into an apartheid system.

    And there were a lot of big agrarian changes that happened in Europe, starting about that time. One of my ancestors, a tenant-at-will, won a claim against his landlord for misleading him by telling him that he would not be ejected. And that was in Ireland - a country with a largely alien ruling class. As more decades went by, the landowning class - who had quite ruthless ancestors - lost a lot of their wealth and power.

    Replies: @nebulafox

  71. @Achmed E. Newman
    @dfordoom

    Well, you're really living up to your handle on this thread, I gotta say. I don't agree with most of your points. Let me just address your naysaying with:

    1) Read your Solzhenitsyn.

    2) We'll see. I hope to be a part of it.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    Well, you’re really living up to your handle on this thread, I gotta say. I don’t agree with most of your points.

    We’ll see. I hope to be a part of it.

    I hope you’re right and I’m wrong if that’s any consolation.

    We’ll have a much clearer picture by the end of the year. By then we’ll probably know just how far the crackdown on dissidents is going to go.

    And which candidate wins in November there are going to be protests and attempts to contest the legitimacy of the result. It will be interesting to see how energetic these attempts will be, and how successful.

    Maybe you’re being too optimistic and I’m being too pessimistic. I always figure it’s good to be a pessimist because when things turn out badly, but not as badly as you expected, you get a pleasant surprise.

    • Replies: @Talha
    @dfordoom

    On a related note:
    "This week, Germany’s defense minister, Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer, took the drastic step of disbanding a fighting company in the KSK considered infested with extremists. Little Sheep, the sergeant major whose weapons stash was uncovered in May, was a member.

    Some 48,000 rounds of ammunition and 62 kilograms, or about 137 pounds, of explosives have disappeared from the KSK altogether, she said...In many cases, soldiers have used the networks to prepare for when they predict Germany’s democratic order will collapse. They call it Day X."
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/world/europe/germany-military-neo-nazis-ksk.html?referringSource=articleShare

    Peace.

  72. Anonymous[872] • Disclaimer says:
    @nebulafox
    @songbird

    I've never found that plausible. Slavery was an archaic economic system that was requiring increasing amounts of state resources to artificially maintain by the mid-19th Century. Even some eventual Confederate leaders-among them Lee-recognized this and favored gradual, long-term dismantlement prior to the war, even if they continued to believe in white supremacy and a racial caste system. Of course, this dismantlement was to take place under Southern control according to a Southern timeline, and the North was already disgruntled about having their tax dollars spent propping up the plantation system without them having a say in anything. The fact that slavery was being artificially propped up for the benefit of a minority of agrarian plutocrats was one of the big factors behind the Civil War in the first place: not as big as the spread of slavery to new territories, but a crucial factor nonetheless.

    Should the Confederacy have succeeded-and it could have-it would have likely become a backwater rural dystopia that would have held onto the system as long as possible, given the ideological conditioning caused by the war. Slavery was not some engine of economic growth: it was a deeply retarding force. That's why 1619-esque arguments about slavery being the engine of America's success are so ludicrous. If that were true, Brazil would be mega-Switzerland right now.

    Replies: @songbird, @Anonymous, @RSDB

    The South would have become similar to Brazil, perhaps Mexico North. It might have expanded in Mexico. “Dixie” as we know it today would have barrios, rich whites, and a huge crime rate.

  73. @nebulafox
    @songbird

    Apartheid South Africa was not an agrarian country relying off slavery, though: the British Empire had banned slavery in the 1830s. South Africa industralized rapidly around the late 19th Century, like a lot of other nations.

    To clarify, I'm not talking about racial caste systems in general. I'm arguing that slavery specifically, as an economic system, retards a nation in an industrial age, not least due to its inherent pro-rural oligarch nature. That archaic system was what the Confederacy was ideologically defending, not 1950s Jim Crow, and it's hard to imagine a Confederate victory scenario where they'd give it up for a good long while after having fought so hard to keep it.

    >But the South would have had more whites. I think it would have been an advanced country, eventually. Perhaps, falling into the same demographic trap as South Africa, but over a much longer course of time.

    I'm not certain about that: oligarchic rentier economies tend to also dull birth rates outside of the top (plantation owners) and bottom (slaves) of society. Even in the 21st Century, that's apparent: just look at modern America.

    Replies: @songbird

    Thais still practiced human sacrifice at that time, and they branded their slaves, and did some executions by burning, but they still gave up slavery eventually. Perhaps, somewhat under the influence of the outcome of the American Civil War, but I think they would have given it up anyway.

    Perhaps, I am being fanciful, but I think it’s possible that whites find slavery more distasteful than most other people do. I believe slaves could work one day a week or so and keep their wages – I don’t know where else than in the West that that happened. And I don’t think the poorer whites would have stood for it much longer. I think it would have quickly turned into an apartheid system.

    And there were a lot of big agrarian changes that happened in Europe, starting about that time. One of my ancestors, a tenant-at-will, won a claim against his landlord for misleading him by telling him that he would not be ejected. And that was in Ireland – a country with a largely alien ruling class. As more decades went by, the landowning class – who had quite ruthless ancestors – lost a lot of their wealth and power.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @songbird

    I think they would have given it up eventually, because my argument revolves around slavery as a wholesale economic system being incompatible with modernity. But it would have taken a long time after fighting a vicious civil war in the name of slavery. That's just human nature. Most whites in the South could not afford slaves, but they did buy into the ideological plantation ideal. Southerners who deeply hated the plantation owner oligarchy (even if they held deeply racist views about black people) tended to defect to the Union early on in the war, Andrew Johnson being the prime example.

    >Perhaps, I am being fanciful, but I think it’s possible that whites find slavery more distasteful than most other people do.

    No, I don't think that's implausible at all, at least if we're talking about the Western World at the time. The Western Enlightenment changed viewing slavery into a condition that was viewed as the worst of any number of base conditions to something especially morally abhorrent, because it was the antithesis of the notion that every man had basic legal rights including freedom. But even if we're talking about the modern world, slavery still does exist in pockets of the non-Western World. Like Tsarist Russia and Ottoman Turkey, the Confederacy would have risked become a "demi-Western" power falling behind on modernization and getting kicked into the dirt as a result in the colonial heyday. However, as I mentioned: the Confederacy would have just concluded a civil conflict that killed a lot of people, which would inevitably harden pro-slavery, distinctive sentiments. Even after the war in our timeline, some Confederates emigrated to Brazil, where slavery would remain legal until 1888.

    (You can even still see some of their descendants in Southern Brazil. And to clarify, as you know, this didn't necessarily translate into all "white" countries, as your comment on Ireland alludes to. As another example, Russia continued serfdom-slavery in all but name-until around the 1860s, and unlike in the US, the termination of that was solely about politics, not about a mix of politics and genuine moral disgust-conditions for ex-serfs remained semi-free at best for a long time.)

    I've already mentioned that in the 1780s, the prevailing sentiment among many Founders, slaveholders among them, was that the institution would go the way of indentured servitude within a few decades because it was so obviously against the ideals of the new nation. Two things changed that around the turn of the century: the cotton gin and the Haitian Revolution. But not before slavery became nonexistent in half the new country. And that's the seeds of what ultimately led to the Civil War: two different Americas developed.

    My guess is that a victorious Confederacy would have likely become a nastier version of apartheid South Africa, but much more impoverished. How they'd handle it and what would eventually become of the CSA from there could range across a number of butterfly scenarios that would all be to varying degrees worse than OTL, I believe.

    Replies: @songbird

  74. @JohnPlywood
    @songbird

    Wow, that's some pretty incredible enthusiasm about America's highways. One wonders how anyone but a government-paid American troll could say such a thing.

    But you're going to have to come up with something other than emergency stopping lanes as evidence of American superiority. Emergency stopping lanes are seldom used, and make up a minor part of what makes a road. Especially a crumbling American road that literally resembles the surface of Hell.

    When I say American roads are inferior, I mean the roads themselves are of inferior material quality.

    http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,159579,00.html


    Why has the world's highway Goliath become the superpower of potholes? A major reason is that in its haste, America built on the cheap. Across the nation, state and local governments have tended to award competitive contracts to the lowest bidder, often meaning they got the shoddiest materials and the sloppiest work. In addition, the Federal Government has encouraged neglect by subsidizing new construction or major restructuring at 90 cents to the dollar but awarding no subsidies for maintenance work. One expert likens it to not reimbursing drivers for the cost of changing oil in their cars while paying 90% of the price of a valve job. "The attitude was the faster it crumbles, the faster we'll get brand-new," says New York Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, a stalwart highway watcher. Moreover, maintenance is unglamorous. "Nobody ever had a ribbon-cutting ceremony for fixing cracks," notes Moynihan.
     

    But such excuses won't fly in Europe, where miles of smooth-riding, durable autobahns and auto routes put American roadways to shame. European highways actually carry more traffic and considerably heavier truck weights than U.S. roads, yet they are smoother and far sturdier. European highways are designed by their builders to last 40 years; the projected life of American roads is half as long.
     
    Perhaps one of the most important aspects of American highway inferiority is inadequate depth. The highways in Germany are all built below the frost line there, and feature improved drainage as an added protection. American highways always inevitably get buckled by the hydraulic force of frozen earth, much like American homes, leading to the ubiquitous cracks, bumps, potholes, and occasionally catastrophic sinkholing that defines the American commuting experience:

    But some of the most important differences between American and European expressways lie well beneath the surface. All highways are built by bulldozing softer subsoils and either tamping them or replacing them with more durable dirt or gravel. But in Germany the roadbeds tend to be 1.5 m or 1.8 m (5 ft. or 6 ft.) deep, twice the U.S. average. European engineers also devote more time and money to designing roadbeds that resist frost and have excellent drainage, addressing two problems that play havoc with U.S. thoroughfares. Each step, from laying the subsequent gravel or concrete layer to applying the asphalt surface, is taken with long-term durability in mind.
     
    Even the materials used to pave our roads are of inferior quality.

    America's roads are built by amateurs, envisioned by child molesters:


    In fact, many U.S. road builders are small mom-and-pop operations that would be hard pressed to pay for the new equipment and training that innovative techniques sometimes require, let alone to post the insurance bond necessary to guarantee their product over several years. In France, by contrast, the highway-construction business is dominated by half a dozen or so well-financed giants.
     

    Given the emphasis on new construction, U.S. highway designers have badly neglected research and development, which might have kept the roads abreast of mounting traffic. "For many years, the Department of Agriculture spent more % researching dog food than the Department of Transportation did on highways," says Thomas Deen, executive director of the Transportation Research Board. Europeans routinely spend 20 times as much per capita on R. and D. Contractors in Europe add innovative polymers to asphalt and mix new additives into concrete. One additive developed in France -- based on a complex polymer akin to shredded Tupperware plastic -- increased construction costs 8% while doubling the life of a road.
     
    Most of the current used roadways in the United States were constructed or planned well before the white flight era. And I'm aware that the USA has a low population density, which is often correlated with road density. But that does not change the fact that there are less roads per square km in the USA than there are in countries that are 5-15 times smaller. Meaning, as I said, that America has very few roads.

    Replies: @songbird

    Single lane roads are much easier to build and maintain than highways of multiple lanes which are common in the US.

    Europe has a very high gasoline tax. It is generally more expensive to own a car, and not just because of gas. I’d say they have pretty bad roads considering. If I was paying that, I’d want my own, private, air-conditioned tunnel.

    Not to exculpate the road bureaucracy in America – many horror stories there.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    @songbird

    I love fora where posters are literate enough to use words like "exculpate".

    Replies: @songbird

  75. @bob sykes
    Most of the demonstrators are upper class and upper middle class young people, and many of them are girls. BLM has been captured by white Antifa, and it is now serving white purposes. The current civil unrest is a war between white elites, Turchin’s surplus elites. Blacks, as usual, have been pushed aside.

    Replies: @OscarWildeLoveChild

    This is, and always has been, a war between evil whites (be they Jews or Anglicans, Roman Catholics, etc) and God-fearing whites (Remnant Jews, found all over Europe, in various elements of the lost tribes). Huguenots vs. Roman Catholics, The English Civil War, the American Civil War, and on and on.

    So of course it was “hijacked” because demonic whites, are leading the forces of Satan against all that is good and pure–and doing it on every front (transgender, abortion, race). It will be up to the other (good) whites to fight them, until Jesus comes and sorts all this out.

    This is just a continuation of the same immortal battle.

  76. Majority of Black Americans Favor Removing Statues of Founding Fathers

    In the early 2000’s – not that long ago – a Pew research poll said that 12% of blacks believed that the AIDS virus was either invented or promulgated by whites to kill black people. That’s an incredibly high number of people, given the absurdity of the premise. The left has a great ally in the collective emotional volatility of black people.

    As to statues, we all understand the incrementalism that employs accusations of racism as a pretext to gradually phase out anything that doesn’t fit the approved narrative…and eventually, the official version of history. My dad was in WW2. Like many white guys of that generation who served in that war, he had definite preferences of what demographic he wanted to live around and marry into. Will not those widespread preferences also become unacceptable at some point in the future? And will that not warrant removing this statue, as well?

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @J1234

    Six Marines. Five white, one native. All of them from the ragged fringes of the American dream in flyover country. All Christians, some of them quite on the conservative side.

    How long until that memorial gets graffitied?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @dfordoom
    @J1234


    In the early 2000’s – not that long ago – a Pew research poll said that 12% of blacks believed that the AIDS virus was either invented or promulgated by whites to kill black people. That’s an incredibly high number of people, given the absurdity of the premise. The left has a great ally in the collective emotional volatility of black people.
     
    A horrifyingly large number of people of all races believe an astonishing amount of crazy stuff.

    If you don't believe me, spend five minutes reading a site like - Unz Review! This is where you'll find white people who believe the moon landings were a hoax. Right this minute there are white people on Unz Review seriously debating if the Roman Empire was a hoax!

    I doubt that blacks are any more inclined than anyone else to believe complete nonsense.

    Are people today more inclined to believe nonsense than people in the past? Possibly, but I'm not convinced. Remember how many people 50 years ago (most of them white people) thought that ancient monuments were built by space aliens?

    Replies: @Mr. Rational, @J1234

  77. @songbird
    @nebulafox

    Thais still practiced human sacrifice at that time, and they branded their slaves, and did some executions by burning, but they still gave up slavery eventually. Perhaps, somewhat under the influence of the outcome of the American Civil War, but I think they would have given it up anyway.

    Perhaps, I am being fanciful, but I think it's possible that whites find slavery more distasteful than most other people do. I believe slaves could work one day a week or so and keep their wages - I don't know where else than in the West that that happened. And I don't think the poorer whites would have stood for it much longer. I think it would have quickly turned into an apartheid system.

    And there were a lot of big agrarian changes that happened in Europe, starting about that time. One of my ancestors, a tenant-at-will, won a claim against his landlord for misleading him by telling him that he would not be ejected. And that was in Ireland - a country with a largely alien ruling class. As more decades went by, the landowning class - who had quite ruthless ancestors - lost a lot of their wealth and power.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    I think they would have given it up eventually, because my argument revolves around slavery as a wholesale economic system being incompatible with modernity. But it would have taken a long time after fighting a vicious civil war in the name of slavery. That’s just human nature. Most whites in the South could not afford slaves, but they did buy into the ideological plantation ideal. Southerners who deeply hated the plantation owner oligarchy (even if they held deeply racist views about black people) tended to defect to the Union early on in the war, Andrew Johnson being the prime example.

    >Perhaps, I am being fanciful, but I think it’s possible that whites find slavery more distasteful than most other people do.

    No, I don’t think that’s implausible at all, at least if we’re talking about the Western World at the time. The Western Enlightenment changed viewing slavery into a condition that was viewed as the worst of any number of base conditions to something especially morally abhorrent, because it was the antithesis of the notion that every man had basic legal rights including freedom. But even if we’re talking about the modern world, slavery still does exist in pockets of the non-Western World. Like Tsarist Russia and Ottoman Turkey, the Confederacy would have risked become a “demi-Western” power falling behind on modernization and getting kicked into the dirt as a result in the colonial heyday. However, as I mentioned: the Confederacy would have just concluded a civil conflict that killed a lot of people, which would inevitably harden pro-slavery, distinctive sentiments. Even after the war in our timeline, some Confederates emigrated to Brazil, where slavery would remain legal until 1888.

    (You can even still see some of their descendants in Southern Brazil. And to clarify, as you know, this didn’t necessarily translate into all “white” countries, as your comment on Ireland alludes to. As another example, Russia continued serfdom-slavery in all but name-until around the 1860s, and unlike in the US, the termination of that was solely about politics, not about a mix of politics and genuine moral disgust-conditions for ex-serfs remained semi-free at best for a long time.)

    I’ve already mentioned that in the 1780s, the prevailing sentiment among many Founders, slaveholders among them, was that the institution would go the way of indentured servitude within a few decades because it was so obviously against the ideals of the new nation. Two things changed that around the turn of the century: the cotton gin and the Haitian Revolution. But not before slavery became nonexistent in half the new country. And that’s the seeds of what ultimately led to the Civil War: two different Americas developed.

    My guess is that a victorious Confederacy would have likely become a nastier version of apartheid South Africa, but much more impoverished. How they’d handle it and what would eventually become of the CSA from there could range across a number of butterfly scenarios that would all be to varying degrees worse than OTL, I believe.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @nebulafox


    My guess is that a victorious Confederacy would have likely become a nastier version of apartheid South Africa, but much more impoverished.
     
    I tend to think of it in demographic and geographic terms. The South had a lot more whites, and it wasn't a part of Africa, so it may not have come under the same political paradigm of de-colonization. At worse, it may have eventually ended in land swaps - making states nearer to the North white and others black. It was less isolated than South Africa and so would have had more opportunity for trade.

    I don't know if the Southern elite were really worse. They may have been better for being less intellectual, due to rural factors. Perhaps, a bit less socially isolated from the lower classes of whites. Maryland, somewhat sympathetic to the South, seems to have given up slavery quite easily - of course there were a lot of freed slaves already living there. I think it's possible that the South had a more developed culture, when it came to blacks and whites living together. That the reason things are failing today is that the North did not have such a culture - its low number of blacks meant that they easily became signaling props for equality. How many of the campaigners for busing in the North, had ever interacted with blacks, except in the most superficial way? Probably not many.

    I believe that we have the worst possible elites today - it is really related to open borders. Subtracting the newer territories, like Texas, there was no need to import more slaves. I don't think the South would have been importing new unskilled labor, for quite a while, unless as a demographic bulwark. At least, that's my guess.
  78. @J1234

    Majority of Black Americans Favor Removing Statues of Founding Fathers
     
    In the early 2000's - not that long ago - a Pew research poll said that 12% of blacks believed that the AIDS virus was either invented or promulgated by whites to kill black people. That's an incredibly high number of people, given the absurdity of the premise. The left has a great ally in the collective emotional volatility of black people.

    As to statues, we all understand the incrementalism that employs accusations of racism as a pretext to gradually phase out anything that doesn't fit the approved narrative...and eventually, the official version of history. My dad was in WW2. Like many white guys of that generation who served in that war, he had definite preferences of what demographic he wanted to live around and marry into. Will not those widespread preferences also become unacceptable at some point in the future? And will that not warrant removing this statue, as well?

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/2018-10-31_15_25_21_The_west_side_of_the_Marine_Corps_War_Memorial_in_Arlington_County%2C_Virginia.jpg/1280px-2018-10-31_15_25_21_The_west_side_of_the_Marine_Corps_War_Memorial_in_Arlington_County%2C_Virginia.jpg

    Replies: @nebulafox, @dfordoom

    Six Marines. Five white, one native. All of them from the ragged fringes of the American dream in flyover country. All Christians, some of them quite on the conservative side.

    How long until that memorial gets graffitied?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @nebulafox


    Six Marines. Five white, one native. All of them from the ragged fringes of the American dream in flyover country. All Christians, some of them quite on the conservative side.
     
    We already gave back the island their comrades died in taking. Taking down the statue is a minuscule anticlimax.


    https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/139608/last-american-flag-on-iwo-jima-flies-over-buckley/

    Why isn't it ours?

    Replies: @nebulafox

  79. @J1234

    Majority of Black Americans Favor Removing Statues of Founding Fathers
     
    In the early 2000's - not that long ago - a Pew research poll said that 12% of blacks believed that the AIDS virus was either invented or promulgated by whites to kill black people. That's an incredibly high number of people, given the absurdity of the premise. The left has a great ally in the collective emotional volatility of black people.

    As to statues, we all understand the incrementalism that employs accusations of racism as a pretext to gradually phase out anything that doesn't fit the approved narrative...and eventually, the official version of history. My dad was in WW2. Like many white guys of that generation who served in that war, he had definite preferences of what demographic he wanted to live around and marry into. Will not those widespread preferences also become unacceptable at some point in the future? And will that not warrant removing this statue, as well?

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/2018-10-31_15_25_21_The_west_side_of_the_Marine_Corps_War_Memorial_in_Arlington_County%2C_Virginia.jpg/1280px-2018-10-31_15_25_21_The_west_side_of_the_Marine_Corps_War_Memorial_in_Arlington_County%2C_Virginia.jpg

    Replies: @nebulafox, @dfordoom

    In the early 2000’s – not that long ago – a Pew research poll said that 12% of blacks believed that the AIDS virus was either invented or promulgated by whites to kill black people. That’s an incredibly high number of people, given the absurdity of the premise. The left has a great ally in the collective emotional volatility of black people.

    A horrifyingly large number of people of all races believe an astonishing amount of crazy stuff.

    If you don’t believe me, spend five minutes reading a site like – Unz Review! This is where you’ll find white people who believe the moon landings were a hoax. Right this minute there are white people on Unz Review seriously debating if the Roman Empire was a hoax!

    I doubt that blacks are any more inclined than anyone else to believe complete nonsense.

    Are people today more inclined to believe nonsense than people in the past? Possibly, but I’m not convinced. Remember how many people 50 years ago (most of them white people) thought that ancient monuments were built by space aliens?

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    @dfordoom


    If you don’t believe me, spend five minutes reading a site like – Unz Review! This is where you’ll find white people who believe the moon landings were a hoax.
     
    Been there, done that.  Those are mostly people who cannot work the rocket equation to understand the technical underpinnings of the moon landings.  Vox Day is one of the most prominent of those incompetents.

    I doubt that blacks are any more inclined than anyone else to believe complete nonsense.
     
    Oh, no.  They are WAY more inclined to do so.  That is their pathology.
    , @J1234
    @dfordoom


    Right this minute there are white people on Unz Review seriously debating if the Roman Empire was a hoax!
     
    Don't conflate the anecdotal with the general; i.e., consider what percentage of the public at large embrace outlandish theories presented on UNZ. More importantly, don't ignore the social context of extreme claims. The examples you site - Roman Empire as historic fraud and Erich von Däniken "fiction science" - are essentially amusing ponderings about what might've happened thousands of years ago. By contrast, a conspiracy theory about a biological genocide (in the present) against a specific race of people has a very different social context, one that's far more serious.

    It is true that Unz has crazy ideas presented on it's site, and that some are very serious, in the present and threat oriented. However, though I don't even remotely embrace the 911 twin towers conspiracy ideas or pandemic theories, I have to acknowledge that governments possess the resources, power and wherewithal to accomplish (covertly) things far beyond what the individual is capable of. False flags operations and biological science projects gone wrong are within the realm of possibility, even when not probable. Inventing a sexually transmitted disease that kills a specific race of people, OTOH, is so removed from reality that it deserves to be in a completely different category of conspiratorial premise.

    Replies: @dfordoom

  80. @Daniel Williams

    What blacks want, blacks get.
     
    I dunno. We’ve gotten ‘em under control before.

    That’s pretty much been the norm, right?

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Joseph Doaks, @Reg Cæsar

    What blacks want, blacks get.

    I dunno. We’ve gotten ‘em under control before.

    The Thirteenth Amendment isn’t going away anytime soon, however.

    And when, in 400 years, have they ever covered their costs?

  81. @nebulafox
    @J1234

    Six Marines. Five white, one native. All of them from the ragged fringes of the American dream in flyover country. All Christians, some of them quite on the conservative side.

    How long until that memorial gets graffitied?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Six Marines. Five white, one native. All of them from the ragged fringes of the American dream in flyover country. All Christians, some of them quite on the conservative side.

    We already gave back the island their comrades died in taking. Taking down the statue is a minuscule anticlimax.

    https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/139608/last-american-flag-on-iwo-jima-flies-over-buckley/

    Why isn’t it ours?

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Reg Cæsar

    >Why isn’t it ours?

    Because it's a hunk of worthless sulfur rock in the middle of nowhere? The purpose of taking Iwo Jima was to get an emergency base for planes returning from the gigantic firebombings that spring. Once the war was over and we established bases in Japan (and later South Korea), it lost any value.

    To quote one aging former Marine in 1978 when Japan remilitarized the island: “By hell, I’ll run off to Canada before I help take it again!” Iwo Jima truly was a meat-grinder, even on Pacific standards.

  82. @JohnPlywood
    @Priss Factor

    Jewish power and influence has waned in America and the world since the 1980s. Globalism was largely a WASP endeavor. It has since been replaced by populist nationalism instigated by a disgusting international union of Slavs, Southern Euros, mixed race people, and German Americans.

    Basically what I'm saying is: unplug your computer and take it back to the thrift store.

    Replies: @MarkU, @Derer

    You are probably sitting on a wooden shack porch and shooting everything that moves. Besides posting some illiterate nonsense.

  83. @Priss Factor
    I support the removal of those statues. After all, when a revolution happens, the old monuments and idols must come down and make way for new ones. When Bolsheviks won, they tore down old statues and put up Marx and Lenin statues. When Christians took over Rome, they smashed pagan temples.

    The fact is a revolution as profound as the one in Russia in early 90s happened in the US as well. In Russia, the change was obvious and visible because Communism collapsed and was replaced by gangster capitalism, leading to massive poverty. But in the US, the revolution went mostly unnoticed because the political system continued in operation and also, it was a time of prosperity for the US in the 90s. Good times make people focus on triviality.
    And yet, the US finalized the transition from a Wasp-ruled nation to a BUGS-ruled nation. (Bugs = Busy Urban Globalist Semites.) So, the traditional American statues really should have come down then. Wasps not only ceded power but total moral authority to Jews, and that meant Jews could do as they pleased with white legacy. The construction of Holocaust Museum at the time had great significance. Jews were not only political masters and economic owners but moral gods over America. And Jews meant to turn whites into psychological slaves indentured to serving Zionism and cucking to Jungle Fever(which is now even Jungle Faith for Fentanyl Negro Floyd).

    So, the iconoclasm targeting the Founding Fathers is belated but necessary. US is a BUGS-supremacist nation where Jews promote Magic Negro and Globo-Homo as the new idol and religion. In such a country, it makes no sense for the old icons to remain. Do we want monuments to great men like Washington and Jefferson looking down on streets filled with globo-homo idiots and cucks and black thugs brainwashed by venal BUGS?

    Take them all down, if only to spare the memory of those remarkable men who, for all their flaws, achieved the work of giants.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @Truth, @Derer

    I support the removal of those statues.

    Three branches of government ELJ swear to unconditionally defend the US Constitution of the founding fathers, whose statues must be removed. Hell will freeze sooner than that happening. Those that disrespect the struggle of our founding fathers should leave this country.

  84. @Reg Cæsar
    @nebulafox


    Six Marines. Five white, one native. All of them from the ragged fringes of the American dream in flyover country. All Christians, some of them quite on the conservative side.
     
    We already gave back the island their comrades died in taking. Taking down the statue is a minuscule anticlimax.


    https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/139608/last-american-flag-on-iwo-jima-flies-over-buckley/

    Why isn't it ours?

    Replies: @nebulafox

    >Why isn’t it ours?

    Because it’s a hunk of worthless sulfur rock in the middle of nowhere? The purpose of taking Iwo Jima was to get an emergency base for planes returning from the gigantic firebombings that spring. Once the war was over and we established bases in Japan (and later South Korea), it lost any value.

    To quote one aging former Marine in 1978 when Japan remilitarized the island: “By hell, I’ll run off to Canada before I help take it again!” Iwo Jima truly was a meat-grinder, even on Pacific standards.

  85. @Talha
    @Screwtape


    but let their savagery, appetite for risk, and knowledge of violence as natures arbiter atrophy on the shoulders of those giants.
     
    Possibly, but this was fairly recent and I'm not sure exactly when that occurred. The generation of WW2 had plenty of that; the landing at the beaches of Normandy was full of violence, risk and savagery.

    We literally have photos of white women laughing while publicly holding up a coffin with a "nigger baby" when protesting school integration. Some of them may well be alive today (my mother in law is about their age):
    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f3/76/30/f376300401af0df3ea2149332ab86496.jpg

    How did everything crumple so quickly? I'm talking going from one extreme to another within one or two generations. Bizarre.

    Peace.

    Replies: @Joseph Doaks, @Dumbo, @nebulafox

    Women are nothing if not conformists and so are always with the majority or the “accepted thoughts”. If society is racist, they will be racist. If the society is Nazi, they will be Nazi. If society is communist, they will be communist. If society is Anti-Racist, they will be Anti-Racist.

    As for the men, it’s a bit more complex, but basically they end up adapting too, even if with less fanaticism.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Dumbo


    Women are nothing if not conformists and so are always with the majority or the “accepted thoughts”. If society is racist, they will be racist. If the society is Nazi, they will be Nazi. If society is communist, they will be communist. If society is Anti-Racist, they will be Anti-Racist.
     
    Basic biology dictates that women need to be socially conformist to a large extent. It has always been for women a matter of survival (survival for themselves and their children). Women need the protection of social rules. For the whole of human history any woman who refused to conform socially would have been recklessly putting herself and her children at risk.

    So there's nothing sinister about it.

    A lot of the things that alt-righters object to about women are in fact perfectly normal, perfectly natural, perfectly rational female behaviours. The problem seems to be that many alt-righters (ironically) cannot accept that women are not men. They get angry when a woman behaves like a woman.

    Replies: @Talha, @Joseph Doaks

  86. @unit472
    The problem negroes have is nothing they value and admire was created by them so who would they build statues of.

    James Naismith, the inventor of basketball? Sorry he's a white man. Negroes value TV sets and cell phones highly. The worst negro hovel has a big TV and cell phones quickly became de rigueur for every strutting Leroy and Leroyette in the ghetto. Problem is they too were invented by white men.

    We don't know the racial views of Naismith but since he was born in 1861 it is likely he was a man of his times and did not consider the negro as the pinnacle of mankind, The same could be said of TV's creators ,John Baird the Scottish engineer or Philo Farnsworth the American. Martin Cooper the father of the cell phone was a more modern figure so he might be expected to have more modern views but did anyone ever ask? Suppose the negro builds a monument to Cooper only to learn he used the 'n' word when he was cut off by a black driver on his way to work at Motorola one day?

    We should also remember that when the negroes wanted a monument to Martin Luther King on the Mall no black American could be found with the requisite skill to carve it so a Chinese artist was given the commission to create the most important monument to a negro in America and it turned out to be a chintzy mini replica of Mount Rushmore. Come to think of it the Martin Luther King Center in Atlanta is little more than a dirty building with a gift shop. The King family having sold off most of his memorabilia the 'exhibits' are little more than old newspaper clippings from the 1960's!

    Replies: @Gordo, @songbird, @Dumbo

    Nothing to do with Negroes. Modern art and architecture mostly sucks, and it’s made by White people.

    Also young white people have little knowledge of history and don’t care/don’t know if a statue of some “old racist” is toppled. There might be a generational conflict as well.

    Holocaust memorials suck because Jews can be good at literature and movies but are usually bad at painting, sculpture and architecture, they have terrible taste, even their modern synagogues are ugly and look like demonic houses from hell. Oh wait… 😉

    • Replies: @neutral
    @Dumbo


    because Jews can be good at literature and movies
     
    Just because jews control Hollywood does not mean they are actually producing good movies, the opposite holds, their Hollywood monopoly allows them to produce bad movies.
    , @dfordoom
    @Dumbo


    Nothing to do with Negroes. Modern art and architecture mostly sucks, and it’s made by White people.
     
    Agreed. The destruction of beauty in art and architecture which began just over a century ago was accomplished by white people. Not blacks. And not Jews.

    Also young white people have little knowledge of history and don’t care/don’t know if a statue of some “old racist” is toppled. There might be a generational conflict as well.
     
    I suspect that generational conflict is a huge part of what is going on at the moment. Is there any more effective way for young people to lash out at older people than by toppling statues of the Founding Fathers? It's a way of telling their parents that they hate everything their parents care about.

    To a large extent we're witnessing a gigantic temper tantrum by overgrown toddlers.

    This is, as I have said before, a Children's Revolution.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

  87. @Dr. Doom
    These blacks aren't doing this by themselves. They mill around a lot and commit most of the crimes but strategy is beyond their pay grade. Its the Zionists again. They hate America, and their globalism scheme is now unraveling.

    Stop feeding the animals. They will see a population crash. China won't be charitable.

    This faux "Judeo-Christian" charity has made this problem.

    The blacks are like tribbles. DO NOT FEED THEM.

    Replies: @Mr. Rational

    A great deal of Africa, as well as Africans elsewhere, are dependent upon all sorts of aid (food, housing, clothing, medical).  If they were cut off from that aid, they would starve, freeze or otherwise perish.

    We should let that happen.  ASAP.

  88. @songbird
    @JohnPlywood

    Single lane roads are much easier to build and maintain than highways of multiple lanes which are common in the US.

    Europe has a very high gasoline tax. It is generally more expensive to own a car, and not just because of gas. I'd say they have pretty bad roads considering. If I was paying that, I'd want my own, private, air-conditioned tunnel.

    Not to exculpate the road bureaucracy in America - many horror stories there.

    Replies: @Mr. Rational

    I love fora where posters are literate enough to use words like “exculpate”.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Mr. Rational

    AE runs a nice forum. I think the graphs scare off the cads.

  89. @dfordoom
    @J1234


    In the early 2000’s – not that long ago – a Pew research poll said that 12% of blacks believed that the AIDS virus was either invented or promulgated by whites to kill black people. That’s an incredibly high number of people, given the absurdity of the premise. The left has a great ally in the collective emotional volatility of black people.
     
    A horrifyingly large number of people of all races believe an astonishing amount of crazy stuff.

    If you don't believe me, spend five minutes reading a site like - Unz Review! This is where you'll find white people who believe the moon landings were a hoax. Right this minute there are white people on Unz Review seriously debating if the Roman Empire was a hoax!

    I doubt that blacks are any more inclined than anyone else to believe complete nonsense.

    Are people today more inclined to believe nonsense than people in the past? Possibly, but I'm not convinced. Remember how many people 50 years ago (most of them white people) thought that ancient monuments were built by space aliens?

    Replies: @Mr. Rational, @J1234

    If you don’t believe me, spend five minutes reading a site like – Unz Review! This is where you’ll find white people who believe the moon landings were a hoax.

    Been there, done that.  Those are mostly people who cannot work the rocket equation to understand the technical underpinnings of the moon landings.  Vox Day is one of the most prominent of those incompetents.

    I doubt that blacks are any more inclined than anyone else to believe complete nonsense.

    Oh, no.  They are WAY more inclined to do so.  That is their pathology.

  90. @MarkU
    @JohnPlywood

    What a load of garbage.

    How then would you explain why practically every US politician has to swear undying devotion to Israel to get elected? How come Israel gets to commit war-crimes, run an openly apartheid society and ignore international law. How come Israelis can shoot literally thousands of unarmed protesters, including women, children, people in wheelchairs and people clearly labelled as medics or members of the press and escape even censure, let alone consequences. How do you explain the fact that more than 2/3 of the UK parliament are in 'friends of Israel' organisations (only 0.5% of the UK population is Jewish btw) It is also notable that of all the lying garbage thrown at ex UK Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, it was only the ridiculously thin accusations of 'antisemitism' that finally brought him down.

    It is entirely clear that Jewish influence is still wildly disproportionate to Jewish numbers and if anything it is more obvious than ever before.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood

    What a dumb fuck.

    U.S. politicians support Israel because the majority of Americans support Israel:

    Between the unproductive, low IQ Palestinians and the higher IQ, more productive Jews, all rational, unbiased, learned human beings support Israel. Educatee Israel produces world class healthcare and technological products for everyone to enjoy, while peasant Palestine produces basically nothing except the food to feed itself. If you support Palestine over Israel you are a Leftist piece of shit, totally indistinguishable from BLM or La Raza.

    Jewish power has waned with the aging and increasing intermarriage of Jews in America. Only people who live in their parents’ basement and spend all day reciting David Duke shit from the year 2005 still believe Jews are significant in America.

    • Replies: @Obvious asshole
    @JohnPlywood

    Nobody wants the Palestinians to win, but damn, why won’t Israel just declare war, plow under everyone who is bombing them, and shut the fuck up?

    Because they need to be the victim. Psychopaths don’t want respect, they want pity. And if you don’t think Jews have power here in the US, you’ve probably never heard of a thing called mass media.

  91. @nebulafox
    @songbird

    I think they would have given it up eventually, because my argument revolves around slavery as a wholesale economic system being incompatible with modernity. But it would have taken a long time after fighting a vicious civil war in the name of slavery. That's just human nature. Most whites in the South could not afford slaves, but they did buy into the ideological plantation ideal. Southerners who deeply hated the plantation owner oligarchy (even if they held deeply racist views about black people) tended to defect to the Union early on in the war, Andrew Johnson being the prime example.

    >Perhaps, I am being fanciful, but I think it’s possible that whites find slavery more distasteful than most other people do.

    No, I don't think that's implausible at all, at least if we're talking about the Western World at the time. The Western Enlightenment changed viewing slavery into a condition that was viewed as the worst of any number of base conditions to something especially morally abhorrent, because it was the antithesis of the notion that every man had basic legal rights including freedom. But even if we're talking about the modern world, slavery still does exist in pockets of the non-Western World. Like Tsarist Russia and Ottoman Turkey, the Confederacy would have risked become a "demi-Western" power falling behind on modernization and getting kicked into the dirt as a result in the colonial heyday. However, as I mentioned: the Confederacy would have just concluded a civil conflict that killed a lot of people, which would inevitably harden pro-slavery, distinctive sentiments. Even after the war in our timeline, some Confederates emigrated to Brazil, where slavery would remain legal until 1888.

    (You can even still see some of their descendants in Southern Brazil. And to clarify, as you know, this didn't necessarily translate into all "white" countries, as your comment on Ireland alludes to. As another example, Russia continued serfdom-slavery in all but name-until around the 1860s, and unlike in the US, the termination of that was solely about politics, not about a mix of politics and genuine moral disgust-conditions for ex-serfs remained semi-free at best for a long time.)

    I've already mentioned that in the 1780s, the prevailing sentiment among many Founders, slaveholders among them, was that the institution would go the way of indentured servitude within a few decades because it was so obviously against the ideals of the new nation. Two things changed that around the turn of the century: the cotton gin and the Haitian Revolution. But not before slavery became nonexistent in half the new country. And that's the seeds of what ultimately led to the Civil War: two different Americas developed.

    My guess is that a victorious Confederacy would have likely become a nastier version of apartheid South Africa, but much more impoverished. How they'd handle it and what would eventually become of the CSA from there could range across a number of butterfly scenarios that would all be to varying degrees worse than OTL, I believe.

    Replies: @songbird

    My guess is that a victorious Confederacy would have likely become a nastier version of apartheid South Africa, but much more impoverished.

    I tend to think of it in demographic and geographic terms. The South had a lot more whites, and it wasn’t a part of Africa, so it may not have come under the same political paradigm of de-colonization. At worse, it may have eventually ended in land swaps – making states nearer to the North white and others black. It was less isolated than South Africa and so would have had more opportunity for trade.

    I don’t know if the Southern elite were really worse. They may have been better for being less intellectual, due to rural factors. Perhaps, a bit less socially isolated from the lower classes of whites. Maryland, somewhat sympathetic to the South, seems to have given up slavery quite easily – of course there were a lot of freed slaves already living there. I think it’s possible that the South had a more developed culture, when it came to blacks and whites living together. That the reason things are failing today is that the North did not have such a culture – its low number of blacks meant that they easily became signaling props for equality. How many of the campaigners for busing in the North, had ever interacted with blacks, except in the most superficial way? Probably not many.

    I believe that we have the worst possible elites today – it is really related to open borders. Subtracting the newer territories, like Texas, there was no need to import more slaves. I don’t think the South would have been importing new unskilled labor, for quite a while, unless as a demographic bulwark. At least, that’s my guess.

  92. @Mr. Rational
    @songbird

    I love fora where posters are literate enough to use words like "exculpate".

    Replies: @songbird

    AE runs a nice forum. I think the graphs scare off the cads.

  93. @Dumbo
    @unit472

    Nothing to do with Negroes. Modern art and architecture mostly sucks, and it's made by White people.

    Also young white people have little knowledge of history and don't care/don't know if a statue of some "old racist" is toppled. There might be a generational conflict as well.

    Holocaust memorials suck because Jews can be good at literature and movies but are usually bad at painting, sculpture and architecture, they have terrible taste, even their modern synagogues are ugly and look like demonic houses from hell. Oh wait... ;)

    https://divisare-res.cloudinary.com/images/dpr_1.0,f_auto,q_auto,w_800/v1527681575/ehua1eemrfrgvhsg0df1/eliezer-armon-architects-bahad-1-synagogue.jpg

    Replies: @neutral, @dfordoom

    because Jews can be good at literature and movies

    Just because jews control Hollywood does not mean they are actually producing good movies, the opposite holds, their Hollywood monopoly allows them to produce bad movies.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  94. @dfordoom
    @J1234


    In the early 2000’s – not that long ago – a Pew research poll said that 12% of blacks believed that the AIDS virus was either invented or promulgated by whites to kill black people. That’s an incredibly high number of people, given the absurdity of the premise. The left has a great ally in the collective emotional volatility of black people.
     
    A horrifyingly large number of people of all races believe an astonishing amount of crazy stuff.

    If you don't believe me, spend five minutes reading a site like - Unz Review! This is where you'll find white people who believe the moon landings were a hoax. Right this minute there are white people on Unz Review seriously debating if the Roman Empire was a hoax!

    I doubt that blacks are any more inclined than anyone else to believe complete nonsense.

    Are people today more inclined to believe nonsense than people in the past? Possibly, but I'm not convinced. Remember how many people 50 years ago (most of them white people) thought that ancient monuments were built by space aliens?

    Replies: @Mr. Rational, @J1234

    Right this minute there are white people on Unz Review seriously debating if the Roman Empire was a hoax!

    Don’t conflate the anecdotal with the general; i.e., consider what percentage of the public at large embrace outlandish theories presented on UNZ. More importantly, don’t ignore the social context of extreme claims. The examples you site – Roman Empire as historic fraud and Erich von Däniken “fiction science” – are essentially amusing ponderings about what might’ve happened thousands of years ago. By contrast, a conspiracy theory about a biological genocide (in the present) against a specific race of people has a very different social context, one that’s far more serious.

    It is true that Unz has crazy ideas presented on it’s site, and that some are very serious, in the present and threat oriented. However, though I don’t even remotely embrace the 911 twin towers conspiracy ideas or pandemic theories, I have to acknowledge that governments possess the resources, power and wherewithal to accomplish (covertly) things far beyond what the individual is capable of. False flags operations and biological science projects gone wrong are within the realm of possibility, even when not probable. Inventing a sexually transmitted disease that kills a specific race of people, OTOH, is so removed from reality that it deserves to be in a completely different category of conspiratorial premise.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @J1234


    Don’t conflate the anecdotal with the general; i.e., consider what percentage of the public at large embrace outlandish theories presented on UNZ.
     
    Yeah, but I think you'd find that a high proportion of the public at large believes all sorts of other crazy ludicrous stuff. Examples being:

    Russia stole the election.

    Natural therapies are better than modern medicine (a crazy belief that actually kills people).

    Meat is bad for you.

    The whole gamut of New Age beliefs (which are embraced to some extent by a huge proportion of the female population and a disturbingly large number of soyboy males).

    A man who puts on a frock is as much a woman as someone who was born a woman.

    Homosexuality is natural, healthy and wholesome.

    I suspect that the proportion of whites who believe these crazy nonsensical things is in many cases more than 12% so I'd be reluctant to make fun of blacks because 12% of blacks believe something crazy.

    Replies: @nebulafox

  95. @dfordoom
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Well, you’re really living up to your handle on this thread, I gotta say. I don’t agree with most of your points.
     

    We’ll see. I hope to be a part of it.

     

    I hope you're right and I'm wrong if that's any consolation.

    We'll have a much clearer picture by the end of the year. By then we'll probably know just how far the crackdown on dissidents is going to go.

    And which candidate wins in November there are going to be protests and attempts to contest the legitimacy of the result. It will be interesting to see how energetic these attempts will be, and how successful.

    Maybe you're being too optimistic and I'm being too pessimistic. I always figure it's good to be a pessimist because when things turn out badly, but not as badly as you expected, you get a pleasant surprise.

    Replies: @Talha

    On a related note:
    “This week, Germany’s defense minister, Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer, took the drastic step of disbanding a fighting company in the KSK considered infested with extremists. Little Sheep, the sergeant major whose weapons stash was uncovered in May, was a member.

    Some 48,000 rounds of ammunition and 62 kilograms, or about 137 pounds, of explosives have disappeared from the KSK altogether, she said…In many cases, soldiers have used the networks to prepare for when they predict Germany’s democratic order will collapse. They call it Day X.”
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/world/europe/germany-military-neo-nazis-ksk.html?referringSource=articleShare

    Peace.

  96. @Dumbo
    @Talha

    Women are nothing if not conformists and so are always with the majority or the "accepted thoughts". If society is racist, they will be racist. If the society is Nazi, they will be Nazi. If society is communist, they will be communist. If society is Anti-Racist, they will be Anti-Racist.

    As for the men, it's a bit more complex, but basically they end up adapting too, even if with less fanaticism.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    Women are nothing if not conformists and so are always with the majority or the “accepted thoughts”. If society is racist, they will be racist. If the society is Nazi, they will be Nazi. If society is communist, they will be communist. If society is Anti-Racist, they will be Anti-Racist.

    Basic biology dictates that women need to be socially conformist to a large extent. It has always been for women a matter of survival (survival for themselves and their children). Women need the protection of social rules. For the whole of human history any woman who refused to conform socially would have been recklessly putting herself and her children at risk.

    So there’s nothing sinister about it.

    A lot of the things that alt-righters object to about women are in fact perfectly normal, perfectly natural, perfectly rational female behaviours. The problem seems to be that many alt-righters (ironically) cannot accept that women are not men. They get angry when a woman behaves like a woman.

    • Replies: @Talha
    @dfordoom


    So there’s nothing sinister about it...A lot of the things that alt-righters object to about women are in fact perfectly normal, perfectly natural, perfectly rational female behaviours...They get angry when a woman behaves like a woman.
     
    Yup. Yup. And yup.

    Peace.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    , @Joseph Doaks
    @dfordoom

    "Basic biology dictates that women need to be socially conformist to a large extent."

    Seems like a good argument against letting women vote!

    Replies: @dfordoom

  97. @Dumbo
    @unit472

    Nothing to do with Negroes. Modern art and architecture mostly sucks, and it's made by White people.

    Also young white people have little knowledge of history and don't care/don't know if a statue of some "old racist" is toppled. There might be a generational conflict as well.

    Holocaust memorials suck because Jews can be good at literature and movies but are usually bad at painting, sculpture and architecture, they have terrible taste, even their modern synagogues are ugly and look like demonic houses from hell. Oh wait... ;)

    https://divisare-res.cloudinary.com/images/dpr_1.0,f_auto,q_auto,w_800/v1527681575/ehua1eemrfrgvhsg0df1/eliezer-armon-architects-bahad-1-synagogue.jpg

    Replies: @neutral, @dfordoom

    Nothing to do with Negroes. Modern art and architecture mostly sucks, and it’s made by White people.

    Agreed. The destruction of beauty in art and architecture which began just over a century ago was accomplished by white people. Not blacks. And not Jews.

    Also young white people have little knowledge of history and don’t care/don’t know if a statue of some “old racist” is toppled. There might be a generational conflict as well.

    I suspect that generational conflict is a huge part of what is going on at the moment. Is there any more effective way for young people to lash out at older people than by toppling statues of the Founding Fathers? It’s a way of telling their parents that they hate everything their parents care about.

    To a large extent we’re witnessing a gigantic temper tantrum by overgrown toddlers.

    This is, as I have said before, a Children’s Revolution.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @dfordoom

    The question, then, is where the hell are the adults?

  98. @dfordoom
    @Dumbo


    Women are nothing if not conformists and so are always with the majority or the “accepted thoughts”. If society is racist, they will be racist. If the society is Nazi, they will be Nazi. If society is communist, they will be communist. If society is Anti-Racist, they will be Anti-Racist.
     
    Basic biology dictates that women need to be socially conformist to a large extent. It has always been for women a matter of survival (survival for themselves and their children). Women need the protection of social rules. For the whole of human history any woman who refused to conform socially would have been recklessly putting herself and her children at risk.

    So there's nothing sinister about it.

    A lot of the things that alt-righters object to about women are in fact perfectly normal, perfectly natural, perfectly rational female behaviours. The problem seems to be that many alt-righters (ironically) cannot accept that women are not men. They get angry when a woman behaves like a woman.

    Replies: @Talha, @Joseph Doaks

    So there’s nothing sinister about it…A lot of the things that alt-righters object to about women are in fact perfectly normal, perfectly natural, perfectly rational female behaviours…They get angry when a woman behaves like a woman.

    Yup. Yup. And yup.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Talha

    One of the things that has changed since the 1950s is that both sexes seem to find it more difficult to see the other sex's point of view. I think that back in the '50s women generally understood that men were different and had a different way of engaging with the world. They understood that men were different from women emotionally and sexually. And they were OK with that. If you'd asked a woman in the '50s if she wished her husband were more like a woman she'd have said you were crazy and that she loved him because he was a man.

    And in those days men generally understood that women were different and had different agendas and they understood that women's emotions and sexuality were not the same as men's. And they were OK with that. If you'd asked a man in the '50s if he wished his wife were more like a man he'd have told you you were nuts and that he loved her because she was a woman.

    Nowadays it seems that neither men nor women are prepared to accept that the sexes really are profoundly different. And, tragically, it seems that neither men nor women are prepared to accept that that is a very good thing.

  99. @dfordoom
    @Dumbo


    Women are nothing if not conformists and so are always with the majority or the “accepted thoughts”. If society is racist, they will be racist. If the society is Nazi, they will be Nazi. If society is communist, they will be communist. If society is Anti-Racist, they will be Anti-Racist.
     
    Basic biology dictates that women need to be socially conformist to a large extent. It has always been for women a matter of survival (survival for themselves and their children). Women need the protection of social rules. For the whole of human history any woman who refused to conform socially would have been recklessly putting herself and her children at risk.

    So there's nothing sinister about it.

    A lot of the things that alt-righters object to about women are in fact perfectly normal, perfectly natural, perfectly rational female behaviours. The problem seems to be that many alt-righters (ironically) cannot accept that women are not men. They get angry when a woman behaves like a woman.

    Replies: @Talha, @Joseph Doaks

    “Basic biology dictates that women need to be socially conformist to a large extent.”

    Seems like a good argument against letting women vote!

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Joseph Doaks



    “Basic biology dictates that women need to be socially conformist to a large extent.”
     
    Seems like a good argument against letting women vote!
     
    Which pretty much sums up the unfortunate attitude I was talking about.

    Maybe we should consider that women might not vote the way alt-righters would like them to vote but maybe women have perfectly valid reasons for voting the way they do. Maybe women are not always wrong in the voting choices they make. As an example, women are much more likely to vote in favour of maintaining and extending the welfare state. But you know it is just possible that women are right on this issue and alt-righters are wrong.

    The attitude of alt-right types seems to be that women don't vote they way they'd like them to, therefore women shouldn't be allowed to vote at all. Nobody should have the right to vote unless they vote the way I vote!

    Women will never vote the way men vote because women, quite legitimately, have different priorities. But as much as you might hate the idea the fact is that their priorities are just as valid as men's.

    Replies: @Liberty Mike, @Audacious Epigone

  100. @J1234
    @dfordoom


    Right this minute there are white people on Unz Review seriously debating if the Roman Empire was a hoax!
     
    Don't conflate the anecdotal with the general; i.e., consider what percentage of the public at large embrace outlandish theories presented on UNZ. More importantly, don't ignore the social context of extreme claims. The examples you site - Roman Empire as historic fraud and Erich von Däniken "fiction science" - are essentially amusing ponderings about what might've happened thousands of years ago. By contrast, a conspiracy theory about a biological genocide (in the present) against a specific race of people has a very different social context, one that's far more serious.

    It is true that Unz has crazy ideas presented on it's site, and that some are very serious, in the present and threat oriented. However, though I don't even remotely embrace the 911 twin towers conspiracy ideas or pandemic theories, I have to acknowledge that governments possess the resources, power and wherewithal to accomplish (covertly) things far beyond what the individual is capable of. False flags operations and biological science projects gone wrong are within the realm of possibility, even when not probable. Inventing a sexually transmitted disease that kills a specific race of people, OTOH, is so removed from reality that it deserves to be in a completely different category of conspiratorial premise.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    Don’t conflate the anecdotal with the general; i.e., consider what percentage of the public at large embrace outlandish theories presented on UNZ.

    Yeah, but I think you’d find that a high proportion of the public at large believes all sorts of other crazy ludicrous stuff. Examples being:

    Russia stole the election.

    Natural therapies are better than modern medicine (a crazy belief that actually kills people).

    Meat is bad for you.

    The whole gamut of New Age beliefs (which are embraced to some extent by a huge proportion of the female population and a disturbingly large number of soyboy males).

    A man who puts on a frock is as much a woman as someone who was born a woman.

    Homosexuality is natural, healthy and wholesome.

    I suspect that the proportion of whites who believe these crazy nonsensical things is in many cases more than 12% so I’d be reluctant to make fun of blacks because 12% of blacks believe something crazy.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @dfordoom

    I agree with all of the above, except this:

    >Homosexuality is natural, healthy and wholesome.

    I think it is true that without the current LGBT-fetishism, you wouldn't record numbers of Zoomers recording "non-standard" sexuality, but there have always existed people who were naturally wired toward homosexuality. It's a much smaller minority of the populace than you'd guess from modern media treatment, but they've always been out there, and it isn't a bad thing that they don't have to live a lie anymore. A lot less unhappy sham marriages that eventually implode, for example.

    Modern LGBT culture is often infantile, and people who identify themselves primarily by their sexuality are generally losers who nothing better to identify themselves as. Can you imagine Hadrian or Leonardo Da Vinci in drag?

    >One of the things that has changed since the 1950s is that both sexes seem to find it more difficult to see the other sex’s point of view.

    I think this problem is worse with women than men, since men still have to have a basic idea of how women operate to get anywhere with them. Most men who go down the road of not understanding the woman's POV at all become involuntarily celibate pretty quick. Women are more able to get away with completely failing to understand male nature and what men go through.

    Of course, this seldom ends well: failed relationships or, tragically, marriages, but it does not pose a roadblock to getting there in the first place in the same way.

  101. @Talha
    @dfordoom


    So there’s nothing sinister about it...A lot of the things that alt-righters object to about women are in fact perfectly normal, perfectly natural, perfectly rational female behaviours...They get angry when a woman behaves like a woman.
     
    Yup. Yup. And yup.

    Peace.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    One of the things that has changed since the 1950s is that both sexes seem to find it more difficult to see the other sex’s point of view. I think that back in the ’50s women generally understood that men were different and had a different way of engaging with the world. They understood that men were different from women emotionally and sexually. And they were OK with that. If you’d asked a woman in the ’50s if she wished her husband were more like a woman she’d have said you were crazy and that she loved him because he was a man.

    And in those days men generally understood that women were different and had different agendas and they understood that women’s emotions and sexuality were not the same as men’s. And they were OK with that. If you’d asked a man in the ’50s if he wished his wife were more like a man he’d have told you you were nuts and that he loved her because she was a woman.

    Nowadays it seems that neither men nor women are prepared to accept that the sexes really are profoundly different. And, tragically, it seems that neither men nor women are prepared to accept that that is a very good thing.

    • Agree: Talha
  102. I don’t know of any poll or polls taken that can accurately gauge the feelings or opinions of the “majority of “ black Americans “.What poll or who is mr. Audacious quoting. I do not believe nor is it possible that Audacious has talked personally to a majority of “black Americans “ to get their views on this subject or any other subject. I can say that Americans of African ancestry have fought and died in every war this country has fought.It b is very suspect when any one writes a column or article claiming to know what the majority of any people are thinking let alone their views concerning a country that their grandfathers and fathers,uncles, sons,husbands.brothers. nephews and other close relatives and neighbors have fought and died for.There may be some small percentage of Americans of African ancestry who may have fallen prey to the current atmosphere of statue desecration and removal but the vast majority of Americans of African ancestry do not share this sentiment or this opinion.Audaciouis you need to talk to more “black Americans and get a better picture of what they think. If that is not possible then please stop writing articles about this subject…

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Reginald Tyler

    The pollsters do that talking for us and we share their findings.

    Replies: @Reginald Tyler

  103. @Joseph Doaks
    @dfordoom

    "Basic biology dictates that women need to be socially conformist to a large extent."

    Seems like a good argument against letting women vote!

    Replies: @dfordoom

    “Basic biology dictates that women need to be socially conformist to a large extent.”

    Seems like a good argument against letting women vote!

    Which pretty much sums up the unfortunate attitude I was talking about.

    Maybe we should consider that women might not vote the way alt-righters would like them to vote but maybe women have perfectly valid reasons for voting the way they do. Maybe women are not always wrong in the voting choices they make. As an example, women are much more likely to vote in favour of maintaining and extending the welfare state. But you know it is just possible that women are right on this issue and alt-righters are wrong.

    The attitude of alt-right types seems to be that women don’t vote they way they’d like them to, therefore women shouldn’t be allowed to vote at all. Nobody should have the right to vote unless they vote the way I vote!

    Women will never vote the way men vote because women, quite legitimately, have different priorities. But as much as you might hate the idea the fact is that their priorities are just as valid as men’s.

    • Replies: @Liberty Mike
    @dfordoom

    That women may be hard-wired to seek conformity in service of perceived survival does not thereby mean that such an attribute is to be encouraged.

    Smarter women recognize that pledging allegiance to the mob won't shield her children from harm.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @dfordoom

    The marital gap among women is huge, wider than the male-female gap in general. Unmarried women support the welfare state, married women don't. It's easy to understand why. The government plays the provider role for many single women. It competes with the provider for resources in the case of married women, though.

  104. 100% of whites want negros removed from America. Think about it. America would be like, Austria, on steroids!

  105. AE: “If it’s any consolation, when synthetic meat is ubiquitous in fifty years, everyone alive today will be made reprobate. Not even the legacies of vegans will be safe–after all, they tolerated a society that permitted the consumption of animal flesh. That’s inexcusable. Who cares if Elon Musk made it to Mars? He ate steak. After that, what forgiveness?”

    This reminded me of:

    “It’s January 5th, 2049, protestors gather in broad daylight on the 40th anniversary of Barack Obama’s inauguration as President, to tear down a statue of him resurrected in recognition of his accolades: first African American president and Nobel Peace prize winner, to name just two.
    His crimes, however, dwarf his achievements. His character is unimportant, his position in history insignificant when paralleled to his heinous crimes towards… animals?
    Barack Obama, you see, not only ate meat; he condoned the enslavement of animals by virtue of inaction in a position of unparalleled authority. In 2049, cultural anthropologists may say that his record is tarnished by allowing animals to be farmed, enslaved, and bred for the sole purpose of being eaten. Indeed, he himself continued to eat meat, despite our knowledge of the living conditions of most domesticated animals destined to be a steak.
    Context is irrelevant. In 2049, eating an animal is barbaric, therefore anyone who ate meat can only be viewed as barbaric.”
    (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/dark-side-psychology/201908/you-will-be-judged-you-judge-those-who-came-you)

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Poirot

    Convergent perspicacity!

    Ahem, for the sake of vanity allow me to point out that I've been on this analogy for awhile.

  106. @dfordoom
    @J1234


    Don’t conflate the anecdotal with the general; i.e., consider what percentage of the public at large embrace outlandish theories presented on UNZ.
     
    Yeah, but I think you'd find that a high proportion of the public at large believes all sorts of other crazy ludicrous stuff. Examples being:

    Russia stole the election.

    Natural therapies are better than modern medicine (a crazy belief that actually kills people).

    Meat is bad for you.

    The whole gamut of New Age beliefs (which are embraced to some extent by a huge proportion of the female population and a disturbingly large number of soyboy males).

    A man who puts on a frock is as much a woman as someone who was born a woman.

    Homosexuality is natural, healthy and wholesome.

    I suspect that the proportion of whites who believe these crazy nonsensical things is in many cases more than 12% so I'd be reluctant to make fun of blacks because 12% of blacks believe something crazy.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    I agree with all of the above, except this:

    >Homosexuality is natural, healthy and wholesome.

    I think it is true that without the current LGBT-fetishism, you wouldn’t record numbers of Zoomers recording “non-standard” sexuality, but there have always existed people who were naturally wired toward homosexuality. It’s a much smaller minority of the populace than you’d guess from modern media treatment, but they’ve always been out there, and it isn’t a bad thing that they don’t have to live a lie anymore. A lot less unhappy sham marriages that eventually implode, for example.

    Modern LGBT culture is often infantile, and people who identify themselves primarily by their sexuality are generally losers who nothing better to identify themselves as. Can you imagine Hadrian or Leonardo Da Vinci in drag?

    >One of the things that has changed since the 1950s is that both sexes seem to find it more difficult to see the other sex’s point of view.

    I think this problem is worse with women than men, since men still have to have a basic idea of how women operate to get anywhere with them. Most men who go down the road of not understanding the woman’s POV at all become involuntarily celibate pretty quick. Women are more able to get away with completely failing to understand male nature and what men go through.

    Of course, this seldom ends well: failed relationships or, tragically, marriages, but it does not pose a roadblock to getting there in the first place in the same way.

  107. @Talha
    @Screwtape


    but let their savagery, appetite for risk, and knowledge of violence as natures arbiter atrophy on the shoulders of those giants.
     
    Possibly, but this was fairly recent and I'm not sure exactly when that occurred. The generation of WW2 had plenty of that; the landing at the beaches of Normandy was full of violence, risk and savagery.

    We literally have photos of white women laughing while publicly holding up a coffin with a "nigger baby" when protesting school integration. Some of them may well be alive today (my mother in law is about their age):
    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f3/76/30/f376300401af0df3ea2149332ab86496.jpg

    How did everything crumple so quickly? I'm talking going from one extreme to another within one or two generations. Bizarre.

    Peace.

    Replies: @Joseph Doaks, @Dumbo, @nebulafox

    As I previously said, comparisons of Antifa to the soldiers on D-Day skip over the reality that many of those soldiers came from Jim Crow states and almost all would have had views classified as varying degrees of “racist” today. Even the bad guys-then engaged in acts of racially motivated genocide that made the Confederacy look like hippies-tended to have a dim view of things like the KKK. The Nazis used them as a propaganda example of America’s general lack of culture.

    There were even black soldiers who stayed on in Germany or France or Britain after the war rather than go back to South Carolina. And the Korean War-the war where the military was integrated-played a huge part in jumpstarting the Civil War movement when black veterans came home from Korea. When you have more rights/respect in the military, where you enter as a grab-tastic unorganized amphibian piece of ***t and your ass belongs to your state by definition, then in civilian life… then something is very, very wrong with your civilian society.

    >How did everything crumple so quickly? I’m talking going from one extreme to another within one or two generations. Bizarre.

    Normally, things change as a glacial pace, but there are windows in history where culture changes very rapidly and becomes unrecognizable to people from just a few decades before. One great example is the Reformation in Europe.

    I don’t think that’s unique. What is unique is that it has also been touching on more “fundamental” stuff like gender differences.

    • Replies: @Talha
    @nebulafox

    Excellent points, thanks! I think you are right about WW2 and Korean War helping to change attitudes.

    I also mentioned in a previous thread about how Korean/Japanese/Filipino war brides were responsible for the initial breaking down of barriers to non-white immigration.

    Overseas conflicts tend to have these kinds of unintended consequences.

    Peace.

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @nebulafox

    It's irritating to see those "the first antifascists" gifs and memes of American soldiers storming the beaches of Normandy. The Woke left would consider every single one of those men to be fascist scum based on the things they believed about society and human nature at the time.

  108. @nebulafox
    @Talha

    As I previously said, comparisons of Antifa to the soldiers on D-Day skip over the reality that many of those soldiers came from Jim Crow states and almost all would have had views classified as varying degrees of "racist" today. Even the bad guys-then engaged in acts of racially motivated genocide that made the Confederacy look like hippies-tended to have a dim view of things like the KKK. The Nazis used them as a propaganda example of America's general lack of culture.

    There were even black soldiers who stayed on in Germany or France or Britain after the war rather than go back to South Carolina. And the Korean War-the war where the military was integrated-played a huge part in jumpstarting the Civil War movement when black veterans came home from Korea. When you have more rights/respect in the military, where you enter as a grab-tastic unorganized amphibian piece of ***t and your ass belongs to your state by definition, then in civilian life... then something is very, very wrong with your civilian society.

    >How did everything crumple so quickly? I’m talking going from one extreme to another within one or two generations. Bizarre.

    Normally, things change as a glacial pace, but there are windows in history where culture changes very rapidly and becomes unrecognizable to people from just a few decades before. One great example is the Reformation in Europe.

    I don't think that's unique. What is unique is that it has also been touching on more "fundamental" stuff like gender differences.

    Replies: @Talha, @Audacious Epigone

    Excellent points, thanks! I think you are right about WW2 and Korean War helping to change attitudes.

    I also mentioned in a previous thread about how Korean/Japanese/Filipino war brides were responsible for the initial breaking down of barriers to non-white immigration.

    Overseas conflicts tend to have these kinds of unintended consequences.

    Peace.

  109. @JohnPlywood
    @songbird

    Most everything in your post was ill-founded, but one point really stuck out for me, as a person who is constantly inconvenienced by this country's lack of road:


    Would there be as many miles of highway? (white flight)
     
    The USA has less highway development than most European countries, and this is a major fault, especially considering the extremely low quality of American highways.


    https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/road-density-km-of-road-per-sq-km-of-land-area-wb-data.html


    Road density is the ratio of the length of the country's total road network to the country's land area. The road network includes all roads in the country: motorways, highways, main or national roads, secondary or regional roads, and other urban and rural roads.

    Brazil: 21
    I dia: 125
    Bermany: 180
    Japan: 320
    UK: 172
    Singapore: 473

    USA: 66.74
     

    America's transition to a highway society was started long before white flight did, and was a part of the USA's feeble attempts to become a first world country in the 1930s.

    Replies: @songbird, @Audacious Epigone

    It seems like road miles per capita would be more informative than road miles per unit of land area. That there are few roads in northern Alaska, where nobody lives, doesn’t tell us much of anything useful–but it depresses America’s ranking in a list like this.

  110. @neutral
    The question is if the entire world will succumb to this planet of the apes? One side of the argument is that with the destruction of the USA then there will nobody around to enforce the black worship religion. However there is a very real possibility that the massive population explosion in Africa along with fertility collapse elsewhere that even places like China and India will be forced by their business elite to open their doors to endless blacks. The narratives to "fix their pension crises" or "immigration is good for business" could happen there as well.

    Replies: @Gordo, @Audacious Epigone

    No racial slurs, please.

  111. @Truth
    Et tu, Aude?

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    Destruction is easy, construction is hard. The question is not why does destitution and chaos exist–those are the natural states of man. The question is why affluence and order exist.

    • Agree: Twinkie
    • Replies: @Truth
    @Audacious Epigone


    The question is not why does destitution and chaos exist–those are the natural states of man. The question is why affluence and order exist.
     
    I disagree 100%.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

  112. @Chrisnonymous
    @Daniel Williams

    If the dividing lines were simple, no problem. Even today, the problem is not really blacks, it's the young radicals in media and woke capitalists. Blacks can call for what they want, but can be ignored. Which Congressional Black Caucus members can you name who have been leading these movements? Probably none. Blacks are a non-entity and exist politically only as the subjects of news stories in the US. Jewish, Asian, and misc journalists and bosses cannot be ignored. The problem is that the left still needs blacks for at least this election cycle, maybe a couple more after that, for their votes and for guilting some whites into voting for Democrats.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    A Blexit would be disastrous for Democrat electoral prospects. Trump was the best chance of making that happen–not by talking about low black unemployment, etc etc–but by promising to focus all of America’s reconciliation efforts on native blacks. That would’ve been a long shot, maybe impossible. It’s definitely impossible now.

  113. @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    @Joseph Doaks

    Normie Republicans like to brag that a higher percentage of Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1964 than did Democrats. Republicans in general were more sympathetic to Blacks than were Dems from the time of the Civil War to the 1960s. IMO, it was easy because Republicans lived and worked in areas were there were few Blacks and ones around were their household help and some well-behaved middle class families. Dems lived and worked in the cities or in South, where there were large numbers of Blacks, many of them poorly behaved even then.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    This perspective is an intriguing one but the glaring problem is that today urban whites are the most pro-black whites in the country, while rural whites are the least so. How does that square?

    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    @Audacious Epigone

    Virtue-signalling affluent Whites living in their parts of town such as the Upper East Side of Manhattan versus the blue- and white-collar working and middle-class mostly in the outer boroughs, then and now. Think John Lindsay (the original limousine liberal) vs. Archie Bunker.

    Liberals and cuckservatives love Blacks, love Blacks, love Blacks, and the further away they live, the more they love them.

  114. @dfordoom
    @Achmed E. Newman


    White people are getting extremely pissed
     
    There's no such entity as white people. There are lots and lots of people who happen to be white but most have little in common and white people are hopelessly divided into sub-groups that hate each others' guts. That's not going to change.

    At some point, a crowd maybe only 1/10 the size of the peaceful gun rally crowd in Richmond, Virginia this past January, meaning still in the multiple thousands, will get organized to head to the base of Stone Mountain, or wherever. No, they can not all be arrested. Were that tried, there would then be 3 times as many family and friends down at the courthouse. They can not all be doxed, as what’s the point after a while?
     
    I think you're underestimating the surveillance capabilities of the state (and also non-state actors) and you're underestimating the crusading zeal that you're up against. If such a crowd of multiple thousands gathered would the Wokeists/SJWs go after every single one of them? The answer, unfortunately, is yes. Yes, they would. It wouldn't be necessary to arrest them all, but most of them would find themselves fired from their jobs.

    You're also underestimating the effect that the purging of every single dissident from social media is going to have. Organising large-scale protests will become extremely difficult. And the leadership (such as it is) of such protest movements will be so marginalised as to be unable to exercise any leadership. And there's no such thing as spontaneous protests. Protests have to be organised. Always.

    And it's a certainty that by November every single dissident really will have been purged from social media and most if not all dissident sites will have been shut down (by any means necessary). Would the social media giants really go so far as to purge maybe even as much as 5 percent of their US user base? The answer, unfortunately, is yes. Yes, they would.

    It's no longer a question of whether totalitarianism can be stopped. It's here already. The Thought Police are not what we expected. They don't work for the government. They're the Woke Capital Thought Police and there are no constitutional or legal restraints on them. And they're worse than Orwell's Thought Police because they're doing it because they enjoy it.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Audacious Epigone

    This is why political orientation as a legally protected class is critical–and as such, will never be permitted. That ship has sailed.

  115. @dfordoom
    @Joseph Doaks



    “Basic biology dictates that women need to be socially conformist to a large extent.”
     
    Seems like a good argument against letting women vote!
     
    Which pretty much sums up the unfortunate attitude I was talking about.

    Maybe we should consider that women might not vote the way alt-righters would like them to vote but maybe women have perfectly valid reasons for voting the way they do. Maybe women are not always wrong in the voting choices they make. As an example, women are much more likely to vote in favour of maintaining and extending the welfare state. But you know it is just possible that women are right on this issue and alt-righters are wrong.

    The attitude of alt-right types seems to be that women don't vote they way they'd like them to, therefore women shouldn't be allowed to vote at all. Nobody should have the right to vote unless they vote the way I vote!

    Women will never vote the way men vote because women, quite legitimately, have different priorities. But as much as you might hate the idea the fact is that their priorities are just as valid as men's.

    Replies: @Liberty Mike, @Audacious Epigone

    That women may be hard-wired to seek conformity in service of perceived survival does not thereby mean that such an attribute is to be encouraged.

    Smarter women recognize that pledging allegiance to the mob won’t shield her children from harm.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Liberty Mike


    That women may be hard-wired to seek conformity in service of perceived survival does not thereby mean that such an attribute is to be encouraged.
     
    It's not easy to change basic biology.

    It's not just social conformity. When it comes to politics (and today everything is political) women differ from men in quite a few ways.

    Far righters tend to be angry at women because women don't like the far right. That's a flaw in the far right, not in women. If the overwhelming majority of women are appalled and repelled by your political movement then it's a political movement destined for failure, and it deserves to fail.

    Libertarianism has the same problem. Women take one look at it and say to themselves, "that would be really really really bad for women."

    Replies: @Talha, @Liberty Mike

  116. @Liberty Mike
    @dfordoom

    That women may be hard-wired to seek conformity in service of perceived survival does not thereby mean that such an attribute is to be encouraged.

    Smarter women recognize that pledging allegiance to the mob won't shield her children from harm.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    That women may be hard-wired to seek conformity in service of perceived survival does not thereby mean that such an attribute is to be encouraged.

    It’s not easy to change basic biology.

    It’s not just social conformity. When it comes to politics (and today everything is political) women differ from men in quite a few ways.

    Far righters tend to be angry at women because women don’t like the far right. That’s a flaw in the far right, not in women. If the overwhelming majority of women are appalled and repelled by your political movement then it’s a political movement destined for failure, and it deserves to fail.

    Libertarianism has the same problem. Women take one look at it and say to themselves, “that would be really really really bad for women.”

    • Replies: @Talha
    @dfordoom


    If the overwhelming majority of women are appalled and repelled by your political movement then it’s a political movement destined for failure, and it deserves to fail.
     
    Write this in gold. If you cannot sell your idea to your own mother, sister or daughter...fuggedaboutit!

    It’s literally that simple.

    Peace.
    , @Liberty Mike
    @dfordoom

    Do you doubt the veracity of my assertion that "smarter women recognize that pledging allegiance to the mob won't shield her children from harm?" History, common sense, and reelz over feelz inform such smarter women that their best bet is not with anti-racism, BLM nihilism, cultural desecration, Leninism, Maoism, and socialism.

    What of the women who do not like those who espouse freedom of association, free speech, bodily integrity, civility, individual accountability, individual responsibility, private property, the truth about the pervasiveness of black pathology, and reelz over feelz? Given your premise, the women who comprise the foregoing would be flawed.

  117. @Audacious Epigone
    @Truth

    Destruction is easy, construction is hard. The question is not why does destitution and chaos exist--those are the natural states of man. The question is why affluence and order exist.

    Replies: @Truth

    The question is not why does destitution and chaos exist–those are the natural states of man. The question is why affluence and order exist.

    I disagree 100%.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Truth

    Expound, please.

    Replies: @Truth

  118. @dfordoom
    @Liberty Mike


    That women may be hard-wired to seek conformity in service of perceived survival does not thereby mean that such an attribute is to be encouraged.
     
    It's not easy to change basic biology.

    It's not just social conformity. When it comes to politics (and today everything is political) women differ from men in quite a few ways.

    Far righters tend to be angry at women because women don't like the far right. That's a flaw in the far right, not in women. If the overwhelming majority of women are appalled and repelled by your political movement then it's a political movement destined for failure, and it deserves to fail.

    Libertarianism has the same problem. Women take one look at it and say to themselves, "that would be really really really bad for women."

    Replies: @Talha, @Liberty Mike

    If the overwhelming majority of women are appalled and repelled by your political movement then it’s a political movement destined for failure, and it deserves to fail.

    Write this in gold. If you cannot sell your idea to your own mother, sister or daughter…fuggedaboutit!

    It’s literally that simple.

    Peace.

  119. @dfordoom
    @Liberty Mike


    That women may be hard-wired to seek conformity in service of perceived survival does not thereby mean that such an attribute is to be encouraged.
     
    It's not easy to change basic biology.

    It's not just social conformity. When it comes to politics (and today everything is political) women differ from men in quite a few ways.

    Far righters tend to be angry at women because women don't like the far right. That's a flaw in the far right, not in women. If the overwhelming majority of women are appalled and repelled by your political movement then it's a political movement destined for failure, and it deserves to fail.

    Libertarianism has the same problem. Women take one look at it and say to themselves, "that would be really really really bad for women."

    Replies: @Talha, @Liberty Mike

    Do you doubt the veracity of my assertion that “smarter women recognize that pledging allegiance to the mob won’t shield her children from harm?” History, common sense, and reelz over feelz inform such smarter women that their best bet is not with anti-racism, BLM nihilism, cultural desecration, Leninism, Maoism, and socialism.

    What of the women who do not like those who espouse freedom of association, free speech, bodily integrity, civility, individual accountability, individual responsibility, private property, the truth about the pervasiveness of black pathology, and reelz over feelz? Given your premise, the women who comprise the foregoing would be flawed.

  120. What of the women who do not like those who espouse freedom of association, free speech, bodily integrity, civility, individual accountability, individual responsibility, private property, the truth about the pervasiveness of black pathology, and reelz over feelz?

    You seem to be saying that anyone who doesn’t wholeheartedly support the right-wing free-market libertarian positions must be wrong. Maybe they just don’t agree with you?

    A lot of your points are little more than libertarian buzzwords and right-wing paranoia. Absolutely nobody at the present time is trying to do away with private property. We live in an age in which the assumptions of the triumphalist Economic Right are never questioned.

    Women generally assume that people who use phrases like “the truth about the pervasiveness of black pathology” are knuckle-dragging racists, and they’re generally right.

    Freedom of association is a bizarre obsession of the American Right. I understand why it repels women.

    Individual accountability and individual responsibility don’t mean much unless you define them clearly. I have no idea what you mean by bodily integrity. Freedom of speech is on the whole a good thing although in practice it can cause social chaos.

    Most of the things you’ve listed, if taken to extremes, can be quite validly and quite rationally opposed.

    As for reelz over feelz, the far right is as guilty of that as the Social Justice Left. It’s amusing how right-wingers think that when they act from emotion it’s OK but when women act from emotion it’s not OK.

    • Replies: @Liberty Mike
    @dfordoom

    You continue to dodge my point that smarter women recognize that pledging allegiance to the mob will not shield their children from harm. Why?

    You asseverate that I "seem to be saying that anyone who doesn't wholeheartedly agree with the right-wing free market libertarian positions must be wrong."

    What is "THE (emphasis added) right-wing free market libertarian positions?" Your assertion contains a string of "libertarian [and right-wing] buzzwords." Said otherwise, you employed buzzwords in service of your claim.

    You might want to rethink your averment that "[a]bsolutely nobody at the present time is trying to do away with private property." How many tens of thousands of businesses have been closed by local, county, and state governments in the past 4 months? How many millions of employees of said businesses have been furloughed, laid-off, or otherwise terminated?

    A person's business is property just as an individual has property interests in their labor. Just as one has a property interest in one's body. Coercing people to don face diapers is taking private property whether you think so or not.

    YOu make a broad, generalized, undifferentiated statement that "women generally assume that people who use phrases like 'the truth about the pervasiveness about black pathology' are knuckle-dragging racists, and they are generally right."

    Which women?

    Women who know the facts about the pervasiveness of black pathology?

    Why would women who know the truth about such things as blacks being approximately 100 times more likely than whites to engage in crimes of inter-racial violence ratiocinate that those who express such a fact are, in your words, "knuckle-dragging racists?"

    Why are women repulsed by freedom of association? Again, with the broad, generalized, undifferentiated avowal.

    Which women?

    Replies: @Liberty Mike

  121. @JohnPlywood
    @MarkU

    What a dumb fuck.

    U.S. politicians support Israel because the majority of Americans support Israel:


    https://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/bxqxx-pchk254ymykdbyfg.png

    Between the unproductive, low IQ Palestinians and the higher IQ, more productive Jews, all rational, unbiased, learned human beings support Israel. Educatee Israel produces world class healthcare and technological products for everyone to enjoy, while peasant Palestine produces basically nothing except the food to feed itself. If you support Palestine over Israel you are a Leftist piece of shit, totally indistinguishable from BLM or La Raza.

    Jewish power has waned with the aging and increasing intermarriage of Jews in America. Only people who live in their parents' basement and spend all day reciting David Duke shit from the year 2005 still believe Jews are significant in America.

    Replies: @Obvious asshole

    Nobody wants the Palestinians to win, but damn, why won’t Israel just declare war, plow under everyone who is bombing them, and shut the fuck up?

    Because they need to be the victim. Psychopaths don’t want respect, they want pity. And if you don’t think Jews have power here in the US, you’ve probably never heard of a thing called mass media.

  122. @dfordoom

    What of the women who do not like those who espouse freedom of association, free speech, bodily integrity, civility, individual accountability, individual responsibility, private property, the truth about the pervasiveness of black pathology, and reelz over feelz?
     
    You seem to be saying that anyone who doesn't wholeheartedly support the right-wing free-market libertarian positions must be wrong. Maybe they just don't agree with you?

    A lot of your points are little more than libertarian buzzwords and right-wing paranoia. Absolutely nobody at the present time is trying to do away with private property. We live in an age in which the assumptions of the triumphalist Economic Right are never questioned.

    Women generally assume that people who use phrases like "the truth about the pervasiveness of black pathology" are knuckle-dragging racists, and they're generally right.

    Freedom of association is a bizarre obsession of the American Right. I understand why it repels women.

    Individual accountability and individual responsibility don't mean much unless you define them clearly. I have no idea what you mean by bodily integrity. Freedom of speech is on the whole a good thing although in practice it can cause social chaos.

    Most of the things you've listed, if taken to extremes, can be quite validly and quite rationally opposed.

    As for reelz over feelz, the far right is as guilty of that as the Social Justice Left. It's amusing how right-wingers think that when they act from emotion it's OK but when women act from emotion it's not OK.

    Replies: @Liberty Mike

    You continue to dodge my point that smarter women recognize that pledging allegiance to the mob will not shield their children from harm. Why?

    You asseverate that I “seem to be saying that anyone who doesn’t wholeheartedly agree with the right-wing free market libertarian positions must be wrong.”

    What is “THE (emphasis added) right-wing free market libertarian positions?” Your assertion contains a string of “libertarian [and right-wing] buzzwords.” Said otherwise, you employed buzzwords in service of your claim.

    You might want to rethink your averment that “[a]bsolutely nobody at the present time is trying to do away with private property.” How many tens of thousands of businesses have been closed by local, county, and state governments in the past 4 months? How many millions of employees of said businesses have been furloughed, laid-off, or otherwise terminated?

    A person’s business is property just as an individual has property interests in their labor. Just as one has a property interest in one’s body. Coercing people to don face diapers is taking private property whether you think so or not.

    YOu make a broad, generalized, undifferentiated statement that “women generally assume that people who use phrases like ‘the truth about the pervasiveness about black pathology’ are knuckle-dragging racists, and they are generally right.”

    Which women?

    Women who know the facts about the pervasiveness of black pathology?

    Why would women who know the truth about such things as blacks being approximately 100 times more likely than whites to engage in crimes of inter-racial violence ratiocinate that those who express such a fact are, in your words, “knuckle-dragging racists?”

    Why are women repulsed by freedom of association? Again, with the broad, generalized, undifferentiated avowal.

    Which women?

    • Replies: @Liberty Mike
    @Liberty Mike

    Correction: blacks are approximately 10 times more likely than whites to perpetrate crimes of inter-racial violence, not 100 times.

  123. @Liberty Mike
    @dfordoom

    You continue to dodge my point that smarter women recognize that pledging allegiance to the mob will not shield their children from harm. Why?

    You asseverate that I "seem to be saying that anyone who doesn't wholeheartedly agree with the right-wing free market libertarian positions must be wrong."

    What is "THE (emphasis added) right-wing free market libertarian positions?" Your assertion contains a string of "libertarian [and right-wing] buzzwords." Said otherwise, you employed buzzwords in service of your claim.

    You might want to rethink your averment that "[a]bsolutely nobody at the present time is trying to do away with private property." How many tens of thousands of businesses have been closed by local, county, and state governments in the past 4 months? How many millions of employees of said businesses have been furloughed, laid-off, or otherwise terminated?

    A person's business is property just as an individual has property interests in their labor. Just as one has a property interest in one's body. Coercing people to don face diapers is taking private property whether you think so or not.

    YOu make a broad, generalized, undifferentiated statement that "women generally assume that people who use phrases like 'the truth about the pervasiveness about black pathology' are knuckle-dragging racists, and they are generally right."

    Which women?

    Women who know the facts about the pervasiveness of black pathology?

    Why would women who know the truth about such things as blacks being approximately 100 times more likely than whites to engage in crimes of inter-racial violence ratiocinate that those who express such a fact are, in your words, "knuckle-dragging racists?"

    Why are women repulsed by freedom of association? Again, with the broad, generalized, undifferentiated avowal.

    Which women?

    Replies: @Liberty Mike

    Correction: blacks are approximately 10 times more likely than whites to perpetrate crimes of inter-racial violence, not 100 times.

  124. @dfordoom
    @Dumbo


    Nothing to do with Negroes. Modern art and architecture mostly sucks, and it’s made by White people.
     
    Agreed. The destruction of beauty in art and architecture which began just over a century ago was accomplished by white people. Not blacks. And not Jews.

    Also young white people have little knowledge of history and don’t care/don’t know if a statue of some “old racist” is toppled. There might be a generational conflict as well.
     
    I suspect that generational conflict is a huge part of what is going on at the moment. Is there any more effective way for young people to lash out at older people than by toppling statues of the Founding Fathers? It's a way of telling their parents that they hate everything their parents care about.

    To a large extent we're witnessing a gigantic temper tantrum by overgrown toddlers.

    This is, as I have said before, a Children's Revolution.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    The question, then, is where the hell are the adults?

  125. @Reginald Tyler
    I don’t know of any poll or polls taken that can accurately gauge the feelings or opinions of the “majority of “ black Americans “.What poll or who is mr. Audacious quoting. I do not believe nor is it possible that Audacious has talked personally to a majority of “black Americans “ to get their views on this subject or any other subject. I can say that Americans of African ancestry have fought and died in every war this country has fought.It b is very suspect when any one writes a column or article claiming to know what the majority of any people are thinking let alone their views concerning a country that their grandfathers and fathers,uncles, sons,husbands.brothers. nephews and other close relatives and neighbors have fought and died for.There may be some small percentage of Americans of African ancestry who may have fallen prey to the current atmosphere of statue desecration and removal but the vast majority of Americans of African ancestry do not share this sentiment or this opinion.Audaciouis you need to talk to more “black Americans and get a better picture of what they think. If that is not possible then please stop writing articles about this subject...

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    The pollsters do that talking for us and we share their findings.

    • Replies: @Reginald Tyler
    @Audacious Epigone

    Well Audacious that still doesn’t answer the question of how many so called black Americans have you talked to??? Polls by their very nature are another name for propaganda. If you have some personal reasons for feeling this way just be honest and open and admit it. Prejudice can sometimes be a catalyst for positive change of ideas and views.However if you want to continue to accept the findings of a poll because it makes you feel comfortable and secure in your personal outlooks so be it. But that does not make your position absolute in fact it diminishes your position.

  126. @dfordoom
    @Joseph Doaks



    “Basic biology dictates that women need to be socially conformist to a large extent.”
     
    Seems like a good argument against letting women vote!
     
    Which pretty much sums up the unfortunate attitude I was talking about.

    Maybe we should consider that women might not vote the way alt-righters would like them to vote but maybe women have perfectly valid reasons for voting the way they do. Maybe women are not always wrong in the voting choices they make. As an example, women are much more likely to vote in favour of maintaining and extending the welfare state. But you know it is just possible that women are right on this issue and alt-righters are wrong.

    The attitude of alt-right types seems to be that women don't vote they way they'd like them to, therefore women shouldn't be allowed to vote at all. Nobody should have the right to vote unless they vote the way I vote!

    Women will never vote the way men vote because women, quite legitimately, have different priorities. But as much as you might hate the idea the fact is that their priorities are just as valid as men's.

    Replies: @Liberty Mike, @Audacious Epigone

    The marital gap among women is huge, wider than the male-female gap in general. Unmarried women support the welfare state, married women don’t. It’s easy to understand why. The government plays the provider role for many single women. It competes with the provider for resources in the case of married women, though.

  127. @Poirot
    AE: “If it’s any consolation, when synthetic meat is ubiquitous in fifty years, everyone alive today will be made reprobate. Not even the legacies of vegans will be safe–after all, they tolerated a society that permitted the consumption of animal flesh. That’s inexcusable. Who cares if Elon Musk made it to Mars? He ate steak. After that, what forgiveness?”

    This reminded me of:

    “It’s January 5th, 2049, protestors gather in broad daylight on the 40th anniversary of Barack Obama’s inauguration as President, to tear down a statue of him resurrected in recognition of his accolades: first African American president and Nobel Peace prize winner, to name just two.
    His crimes, however, dwarf his achievements. His character is unimportant, his position in history insignificant when paralleled to his heinous crimes towards… animals?
    Barack Obama, you see, not only ate meat; he condoned the enslavement of animals by virtue of inaction in a position of unparalleled authority. In 2049, cultural anthropologists may say that his record is tarnished by allowing animals to be farmed, enslaved, and bred for the sole purpose of being eaten. Indeed, he himself continued to eat meat, despite our knowledge of the living conditions of most domesticated animals destined to be a steak.
    Context is irrelevant. In 2049, eating an animal is barbaric, therefore anyone who ate meat can only be viewed as barbaric.”
    (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/dark-side-psychology/201908/you-will-be-judged-you-judge-those-who-came-you)

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    Convergent perspicacity!

    Ahem, for the sake of vanity allow me to point out that I’ve been on this analogy for awhile.

  128. @Truth
    @Audacious Epigone


    The question is not why does destitution and chaos exist–those are the natural states of man. The question is why affluence and order exist.
     
    I disagree 100%.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    Expound, please.

    • Replies: @Truth
    @Audacious Epigone

    I believe the natural state of man is order, fraternity, and happiness. I am and have, generally speaking, always been happy. I am not affluent, although I am not destitute either.

    The simple problem in this world is the worship of Satan and Satanic principles; now make no mistake, most Satanists don't even know what that word means. A preacher of Mississippi told me something I have never forgotten once he said, and I paraphrase; "people think that Satanism is the pentagrams and devil horns and all that, and yes, that exists, but the definition of Satanism is "anything that works to sever your relationship with God."

    Here's an encapsulation on the Seven Things God Hates:

    https://biblehelpsinc.org/publication/seven-things-god-hates/

    Focus on #7 for a second, "Those who sew discord amongst breatheren." There is a line of thought here that "well the races just can't get along, so we must seperate." That is an example of sewing discord. And even if this sounds logical to you, and it will to many with the general, exceedingly simplistic world view commonly found upon this site, if you believe this, you are a Satanist because that is what he has been working at for 7,000 years, and it will soon bare fruit.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

  129. @nebulafox
    @Talha

    As I previously said, comparisons of Antifa to the soldiers on D-Day skip over the reality that many of those soldiers came from Jim Crow states and almost all would have had views classified as varying degrees of "racist" today. Even the bad guys-then engaged in acts of racially motivated genocide that made the Confederacy look like hippies-tended to have a dim view of things like the KKK. The Nazis used them as a propaganda example of America's general lack of culture.

    There were even black soldiers who stayed on in Germany or France or Britain after the war rather than go back to South Carolina. And the Korean War-the war where the military was integrated-played a huge part in jumpstarting the Civil War movement when black veterans came home from Korea. When you have more rights/respect in the military, where you enter as a grab-tastic unorganized amphibian piece of ***t and your ass belongs to your state by definition, then in civilian life... then something is very, very wrong with your civilian society.

    >How did everything crumple so quickly? I’m talking going from one extreme to another within one or two generations. Bizarre.

    Normally, things change as a glacial pace, but there are windows in history where culture changes very rapidly and becomes unrecognizable to people from just a few decades before. One great example is the Reformation in Europe.

    I don't think that's unique. What is unique is that it has also been touching on more "fundamental" stuff like gender differences.

    Replies: @Talha, @Audacious Epigone

    It’s irritating to see those “the first antifascists” gifs and memes of American soldiers storming the beaches of Normandy. The Woke left would consider every single one of those men to be fascist scum based on the things they believed about society and human nature at the time.

  130. @Audacious Epigone
    @Truth

    Expound, please.

    Replies: @Truth

    I believe the natural state of man is order, fraternity, and happiness. I am and have, generally speaking, always been happy. I am not affluent, although I am not destitute either.

    The simple problem in this world is the worship of Satan and Satanic principles; now make no mistake, most Satanists don’t even know what that word means. A preacher of Mississippi told me something I have never forgotten once he said, and I paraphrase; “people think that Satanism is the pentagrams and devil horns and all that, and yes, that exists, but the definition of Satanism is “anything that works to sever your relationship with God.”

    Here’s an encapsulation on the Seven Things God Hates:

    https://biblehelpsinc.org/publication/seven-things-god-hates/

    Focus on #7 for a second, “Those who sew discord amongst breatheren.” There is a line of thought here that “well the races just can’t get along, so we must seperate.” That is an example of sewing discord. And even if this sounds logical to you, and it will to many with the general, exceedingly simplistic world view commonly found upon this site, if you believe this, you are a Satanist because that is what he has been working at for 7,000 years, and it will soon bare fruit.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Truth

    #2 and #6 resonate most with me.

  131. @Audacious Epigone
    @Reginald Tyler

    The pollsters do that talking for us and we share their findings.

    Replies: @Reginald Tyler

    Well Audacious that still doesn’t answer the question of how many so called black Americans have you talked to??? Polls by their very nature are another name for propaganda. If you have some personal reasons for feeling this way just be honest and open and admit it. Prejudice can sometimes be a catalyst for positive change of ideas and views.However if you want to continue to accept the findings of a poll because it makes you feel comfortable and secure in your personal outlooks so be it. But that does not make your position absolute in fact it diminishes your position.

  132. @Audacious Epigone
    @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    This perspective is an intriguing one but the glaring problem is that today urban whites are the most pro-black whites in the country, while rural whites are the least so. How does that square?

    Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    Virtue-signalling affluent Whites living in their parts of town such as the Upper East Side of Manhattan versus the blue- and white-collar working and middle-class mostly in the outer boroughs, then and now. Think John Lindsay (the original limousine liberal) vs. Archie Bunker.

    Liberals and cuckservatives love Blacks, love Blacks, love Blacks, and the further away they live, the more they love them.

  133. @Truth
    @Audacious Epigone

    I believe the natural state of man is order, fraternity, and happiness. I am and have, generally speaking, always been happy. I am not affluent, although I am not destitute either.

    The simple problem in this world is the worship of Satan and Satanic principles; now make no mistake, most Satanists don't even know what that word means. A preacher of Mississippi told me something I have never forgotten once he said, and I paraphrase; "people think that Satanism is the pentagrams and devil horns and all that, and yes, that exists, but the definition of Satanism is "anything that works to sever your relationship with God."

    Here's an encapsulation on the Seven Things God Hates:

    https://biblehelpsinc.org/publication/seven-things-god-hates/

    Focus on #7 for a second, "Those who sew discord amongst breatheren." There is a line of thought here that "well the races just can't get along, so we must seperate." That is an example of sewing discord. And even if this sounds logical to you, and it will to many with the general, exceedingly simplistic world view commonly found upon this site, if you believe this, you are a Satanist because that is what he has been working at for 7,000 years, and it will soon bare fruit.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    #2 and #6 resonate most with me.

  134. @nebulafox
    @songbird

    I've never found that plausible. Slavery was an archaic economic system that was requiring increasing amounts of state resources to artificially maintain by the mid-19th Century. Even some eventual Confederate leaders-among them Lee-recognized this and favored gradual, long-term dismantlement prior to the war, even if they continued to believe in white supremacy and a racial caste system. Of course, this dismantlement was to take place under Southern control according to a Southern timeline, and the North was already disgruntled about having their tax dollars spent propping up the plantation system without them having a say in anything. The fact that slavery was being artificially propped up for the benefit of a minority of agrarian plutocrats was one of the big factors behind the Civil War in the first place: not as big as the spread of slavery to new territories, but a crucial factor nonetheless.

    Should the Confederacy have succeeded-and it could have-it would have likely become a backwater rural dystopia that would have held onto the system as long as possible, given the ideological conditioning caused by the war. Slavery was not some engine of economic growth: it was a deeply retarding force. That's why 1619-esque arguments about slavery being the engine of America's success are so ludicrous. If that were true, Brazil would be mega-Switzerland right now.

    Replies: @songbird, @Anonymous, @RSDB

    I’ve never found that plausible.


    some eventual Confederate leaders-among them Lee-recognized this and favored gradual, long-term dismantlement prior to the war, even if they continued to believe in white supremacy and a racial caste system. Of course, this dismantlement was to take place under Southern control according to a Southern timeline

    You haven’t read “The Guns of the South”; this is in fact the plot.

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