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Utilizing the database once again, the percentages of self-selected participants who politically identify as Libertarians, by state:

State %Libertarian
1) Georgia 8.9
2) Alabama 8.1
3) Mississippi 7.6
4) Louisiana 7.6
5) Nevada 7.2
6) New Hampshire 7.2
7) Tennessee 7.1
8) Texas 7.0
9) Arkansas 7.0
10) Oklahoma 6.9
11) South Carolina 6.7
12) Indiana 6.6
13) Ohio 6.5
14) Idaho 6.5
15) Kansas 6.5
16) Arizona 6.3
17) Alaska 6.3
18) Florida 6.3
19) Virginia 6.3
20) Kentucky 6.2
21) Colorado 6.2
22) North Carolina 6.2
23) Missouri 6.0
24) Hawaii 5.9
25) Wyoming 5.8
26) Montana 5.8
27) New Mexico 5.8
28) Illinois 5.8
29) Pennsylvania 5.8
30) Michigan 5.7
31) Maryland 5.7
32) Minnesota 5.7
33) Utah 5.7
34) California 5.5
35) North Dakota 5.5
36) Rhode Island 5.5
37) New Jersey 5.4
38) Washington 5.4
39) Nebraska 5.3
40) Connecticut 5.3
41) West Virginia 5.3
42) Iowa 5.3
43) Wisconsin 5.2
44) Maine 5.2
45) Delaware 5.1
46) South Dakota 5.1
47) New York 4.9
48) Vermont 4.7
49) Massachusetts 4.7
50) Oregon 4.5
51) District of Columbia 2.9

The Mises Institute, at the eastern end of Alabama near the Georgia border, looks to be the American epicenter. More generally, the South is the region of the country where identification is strongest. I find this a little surprising given the heavy military presence in the region, the relatively low percentage of non-Hispanic whites in southern states, and the general impression that big-L Libertarianism is increasingly becoming low-tax progressivism, more Bill Weld and less Hans Hermann Hoppe.

On the other hand, Libertarianism is the only political philosophy that treats the idea of political dissolution seriously, something that has had a historically strong appeal in the South from the mid-19th century onward.

Note that the database shows 6.8% of Americans identifying as Libertarian at the national level. That’s about double the amount of support the party gets in actual presidential elections. Some of this discrepancy is due to the poll’s self-selection bias–white men are more likely than other groups to take surveys like this and also more likely than other groups to be Libertarian–and some of it is probably due to “this election being the most important election EVER so I must go for the lesser of two evils and vote for [Republican]/[Democrat] this time!”

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  1. SFG says:

    You do have to admit the two-party system makes a vote for a Libertarian pretty useless, at least at the state and national level.

    Any proxy for socially-conservative, economically-liberal views?

  2. Male-dominated professions are far more likely to pay enough to cover the basics of living, like unaffordable rent, making it much easier for men to embrace full-out libertarianism, especially since most females still work in low-wage, female-dominated jobs.

    The other people who might be susceptible to libertarian thought are women with enough spousal income to be inoculated against grinding and dangerous poverty. Single, childless women in a handful of high paying fields and single, childless women or single parents with kids over 18 in low-paying fields who get benefit from the Big Government Nanny State might occasionally see the value in libertarian ideas.

    Single women who have no kids under 18 are disadvantaged by a welfare-rigged labor market, offering mostly part-time jobs that keep welfare-eligible citizens and noncitizens under the earned-income limits for wage supplements from Uncle Sam that hoist up their earned income to livable levels. Big Businesses are allied with Big Government in facilitating a welfare-fed / welfare-housed workforce that does not need higher pay.

    Employers have a willing pool of job applicants who need part-time hours and low wages. This is good for single parents and legal / illegal immigrants in single-breadwinner households. All they have to do is keep traceable income under the welfare programs’ income limits.

    Single-breadwinner moms just work part time in a low-wage job or in a series of temp jobs, dropping the welfare during months when earned income goes over the programs’ income limits. The other requirement is to have sex out of wedlock and reproduce, thereby increasing unearned income via multiple monthly welfare programs that cover all major household bills—from rent, to electricity, to food—with each additional birth of an American-born kid increasing the unearned-income till. Add on monthly cash assistance and refundable child tax credit cash up to $6,431, and they’re set with little work effort required.

    The welfare-rigged labor market is also fine for married moms or moms with generous child support checks that cover housing costs. They enjoy libertine absenteeism privileges in their 90 — 98% mom-staffed, voted-best-for-moms jobs. Wanton and crony-corrupt absenteeism privileges for above-firing moms make up for the low pay since spousal income covers major household bills.

    This type of officially or unofficially part-time, low-wage mom employee looks more affluent in statistics than she would if she had to support herself on earned-only income from one person since median household income deceptively includes all wage earners’ earned income. This type of worker also enjoys wages pumped up by non-refundable child tax credit cash in the thousands from Uncle Sam.

    Capitalism is very different for single, non-welfare-eligible citizens, struggling to cover rent and all other bills on low wages from the temp, part-time and churn jobs that enable womb-productive single earners to calculatingly game the welfare system.

    This corrupt, rigged system makes libertarianism look better to those who are hurt by the rigging, but the economic reality is still there, making any aggrandizing vision of the “capitalist” marketplace look ludicrous.

    The reality of how capitalism actually works overrides too much lingering in libertarianism’s ideals. American capitalism does not reward hard work and measurable production (every-month quota meeting) in most cases. Nothing counts more than reducing labor costs in the welfare-rigged, globalist, Neoliberal form of capitalism. So-called capitalists game the welfare system to reduce their labor costs, making libertarianism look like nothing but a utopian, academic excercise.

    It’s like the left and pure communism. They never get there. In communist countries, the opportunistic gamers take over, doing anything they can to get more for themselves and their DNA dynasties, using the organs of power to do it. They violate every principle of their political theory to do it, just like “capitalists” with welfare-supported employees, telling job applicants that the “women we have workin’ here have somethin’ comin’ in.” Dixieland has a lot of that going on, proving the gap between libertarian ideals and amoral gaming of the welfare system is large.

  3. Hey, I like this post, A.E. – right in my wheelhouse, if you will. Ever since George H.W. Bush made a few seconds of a campaign speech in Spanish right there on the TV in 1988, I voted “L” till Trump.

    I am just as surprised as you about the higher percentage of Libertarians in the Deep South.

    … and some of it is probably due to “this election being the most important election EVER so I must go for the lesser of two evils and vote for [Republican]/[Democrat] this time!”

    AGREED. In reply to SFG above also on this, here’s the thing: If both candidates suck, which has usually been the case, then your vote for a 3rd party makes a hell of a lot more difference (still not a lot in absolute terms) than it does for the guy of the Red or Blue squad.

    I.e., either you could bring up the less-evil candidate’s tally by x % (not percentage points, just some tee-tiny percentage) or you could bring up the 3rd-party candidate’s tally by 10x. An “L” getting 8% of the vote will be noticed versus his getting the usual 1.5% or so.

    That all said, I’m pretty sure now that voting doesn’t matter anyway. We’re not voting our way out of the ruination of the US of A. Even the best candidate, were the media not to bury him, will likely be co-opted by the Deep-State swamp, either via threats, blackmail, bribes and/or who knows what else.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  4. @SFG

    Let’s just forget I wrote my last paragraph in that reply to A.E. below for a minute and still had some faith in US political system:

    1) Unless your candidate really only won by ONE VOTE in your state, then your vote didn’t make a difference, did it? You could have stayed home and watched re-runs of Law&Order, Nunavut, and nothing would be different.

    2) With the intimidation at some of the polls by black racists and the more-widespread cheating that goes on, you’d make a much bigger difference being a poll-watcher or on a committee that certifies votes.

  5. Jay Fink says:
    @Endgame Napoleon

    I remember you from Zerohedge. You were my favorite over there. I really appreciate you writing about single moms collecting welfare, EITC, child tax credits etc. The real conflict in our country shouldn’t be rich vs poor, it should be low income collecting tax credits/welfare vs the low income who get none of that.

    • Disagree: iffen
  6. Mark G. says:

    Libertarians can be divided into two main factions. You have the Mises Institute paleolibertarians and the mainstream Reason magazine/ Cato Institute libertarians. This split goes back into the ancient history of Libertarian party fights involving whether Murray Rothbard and his followers or the Koch funded libertarians controlled the party. The other large group of libertarian types, the Objectivists, weren’t involved with the Libertarian party at all. This was largely due to Rothbard alienating them when he was part of the Rand circle and antagonized both Rand and her main acolyte, Nathaniel Branden. The paleolibertarian types would have more appeal in the south due to the support of secession that you mentioned and also their cultural conservatism. The other type of libertarianism would have more support in both the north and primarily in the rugged individualist western part of the country. A Gary Johnson type could represent the west and a Bill Weld type the north. This type of libertarianism is more culturally liberal and its influence can be seen in marijuana reform laws in the western and northern parts of the country. I live in Indiana. Your libertarian chart shows Indiana fairly high, at number twelve. Besides libertarians, enough of the rest of the population leans libertarian enough to influence the state government. The Cato Institute has ranked states by how libertarian they are and ranked Indiana third. Former governor Mitch Daniels is also highly regarded by the Reason/Cato types. Since Indiana is a northern state, it reflects this type of libertarianism, though it has a cultural conservatism that isn’t going to allow drug legalization any time soon.

  7. Anon[281] • Disclaimer says:

    Scuzzfeed vs 14 yr old

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  8. @Mark G.

    Indiana is a northern state but it has some kind of large Southern cultural introgression. I’m not sure what the historical source of it is but I have seen numerous markers pointing at IN being more southern culturally than it’s latitude should suggest.

    All I could find on it is this:

  9. songbird says:

    I think NH has always had a streak of libertarianism, but there is something called the Free State Project, an idea that encourages 20,000 libertarians to move there, to assert political power, on the state and local level. Quite a few did move, I think.

  10. Libertarians have been exposed as pretty much worthless on all of the big national question issues, in particular, immigration.

    Listening to that hysterical ape Gary Johnson scream and yell at the reporter about illegal legumanoids needing jobs and dignity made me almost lose my lunch. Although it was comforting to know the Koch Bros were paying him to do so.

    What makes Libertarians even more useless is their doctrinaire outlook, meaning they would never be able to form a useful coalition with a far-left group, even though they might agree on 3 out of 5 issues. But because of those other two, no way Jose!

    With Libertarians, philosophical purity trumps all. They’ll always be an insignificant speck on the political landscape.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  11. Anon[144] • Disclaimer says:

    The two states with the highest share of libertarians still have that group under 9%. That just goes to show you how unpopular it is.

  12. Somebody in a com box said a Libertarian is a half baked Anarchist. This makes sense to me if a Libertarian is at bottom a Jeffersonian. Like Ron Paul. It seems obvious to me that decentralization of political power is a good idea. If you don’t get so small that you are prey for empires, barbarians and outlaws.

    But if you are a social Darwinist (Randroid) or if you think a monopoly is a success story – You might also self identify as Libertarian. Which Libertarians are we polling here? Mark G above seems to understand the split. I have only observed it.

    I used to rail against Lessor Evilism and advocate for third party and independent candidates. Finally, when Sara Palin said “We have two parties – pick one.” I realized She was right. You can run for office as a Libertarian Republican or a Libertarian Democrat.

    Ideologies are tools for thinking. Not building. In the end real economies are mixed economies. How you do the mixing will lean left or right.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  13. The actual test of whether or not said states are Libertarian is to examine the level of federal monies used to maintain their economies

    a look at

    healthcare subsidies

    security subsidies

    unemployment subsidies


    MIC or other tax funded industries

    number and size of military or federal institutions

    verses a states private economy.

    I would also like to see the definition of libertarian applied.

  14. There are a couple of different kinds of “libertarianism.”

    The best one is the concept espoused by a friend of mine. I’ll probably butcher it if I try to summarize his thought my way, but I’ll do my best. Libertarianism #1. This is the idea that libertarian politics either form or assume a social order that can handle liberty. Think Hans-Hermann Hoppe here. These are people who (correctly, IMO…) defend Pinochet’s 1973 attack against communism. These are people who think open borders as a concept is actually retarded. This form of libertarianism coincides pretty well with aspects of American history – that is to say, this actually did exist in real life, to a degree – and paleocon politics. They prefer “free trade,” but they’re by no means obsessed with it. They don’t sit around complaining about tariffs on China.

    This kind of libertarian isn’t gonna defend sodomy. As for drugs, he’ll probably be okay with legalizing them, but his overall opinion is gonna be something like “meh.” These are good people. I think you’ll find a lot of them in places like more greenish Ohio and Indiana there on that map: regions with long-ish history, stable and reasonably high IQ white populations, and some sincere Christianity. For example: Western Ohio is probably the smartest, most religious part of Ohio and was not coincidentally fairly solid for Ron Paul both times.

    The second form of libertarianism is more like libertinism. I won’t bother to define it, you know what I mean. This, Libertarianism #2, is “left-libertarianism,” a bunch of fruit cakes, sexual weirdos, and to some degree the clown show at This can exist anywhere without much regional distinction, but the one hilariously obvious example of where it DEFINITELY exists is Nevada. Look at Nevada with its high libertarian identification. Yeah, I’m sure this has nothing to do with the legal immorality of Nevada. BUT in fairness, a lot of the self-described libertarians are probably also rural ranchers with a totally justified grudge against federal tyranny. And there may also be a lot of angry ex-Californians there, who probably contain elements of Type #1 and Type #2.

    So Nevada is interesting. Its libertarians are most likely both smart and idiotic.

    Libertarianism #3 is, as AE said, guys down South who think John Calhoun was right. This is the smallest type, but they’re very prominent at the Mises Institute, thus they have pretty strong influence in the wider movement.

    These guys genuinely humor me.

    First, they genuinely think the antebellum South was some kind of libertarian paradise. (Not unrelated: their understanding of Southern history is mostly complete trash) I think this shows how far they really are from #1.

    Second, I admire Andrew Jackson. I wish he had been alive in 1860-61. I have not the slightest doubt that he would have tried to hang every secessionist son-of-a-bitch in the South. It would have saved a lot of blood and sorrow.

    I’m a Civil War guy; it was my first intellectual interest. So, for my third, I’ll rant about one Mises Institute guy: Thomas DiLorenzo. I can honestly say that Thomas DiLorenzo is probably the stupidest critic of Lincoln ever. ‘The Real Lincoln’ is impeccably asinine. He’s the kind of guy who blames Lincoln for the Morrill Tariff of 1861 even though said tariff only passed Congress after 7 states – and thus 14 senators + a bunch of Congressmen – had seceded. This is the kind of criticism that takes literally 1 minute of Googling to disprove. The guys at the Mises Institute make me so mad; because they’re so effin’ bad with Civil War history that it makes me skeptical about trusting anything they might say about any other subject, including economics.

    Pat Buchanan, my beau ideal of a statesman, is definitely a Southern sympathizer at heart, but he also isn’t a total moron. His criticisms of Lincoln are more interesting, and at least worth considering.

    However, the people involved with Mises Institute contains elements of numbers 1, 2, and 3. There are some guys down there who do anything other than praise that Unitarian clown Calhoun. (Note: In all seriousness, Calhoun was a heck of a smart guy, smarter than I’ll ever be. But nullification was typical overwrought South Carolina nonsense, in the context of its time, and Jackson was right to pimp slap that bullcrap)

    NOTE: I have not attempted to categorize the more “radical” libertarians such as AnCaps and whoever. My analysis is meant to be pretty narrow, and also a bit cultural. I think the AnCaps, et al, could fall into all or any of these groups.

    I should also like to point out that New Hampshire and Vermont are the two weirdest states in the Union. Not more than 40 years ago, they were almost identical. The only big difference was NH had more industry in the South and thus more Irish, Italians, Catholics, etc. Otherwise these were both mostly Libertarianism #1 states. Now …. Vermont seems to have had two things happen: 1) It got filled with commies from the cities. 2) Its native Yankees went pinko for some weird reason, also repeated in a few other Northern states from New England to Oregon. As for New Hampshire, two things seem to happened there: 1) It got filled with angry libertarians from the cities. 2) Its native Yankees became even more libertarian.

    Again, those are two weird friggin’ states, man. I’m not a native, so that’s my guess of an analysis.

  15. @Mark G.

    See below

    I generally agree, but I think it’s more like 3 types, not 2

    The one I call type #1 – my third type – is, essentially, a “paleolibertarian” who thinks secession was a bad idea and is, quite frankly, otherwise more practical than the straight up Mises Institute guys.

    In any event, I guarantee you’ll find lots of morally conservative paleolibertarians in the North, especially the rural North.

    They would have opposed secession in 1861, but that’s not an issue that really matters big to them now unless they just like talking history.

  16. Mark G. says:
    @Lars Porsena

    Thanks for the article link. Indiana is weird. The southern part of the state was heavily settled by the same type of Appalachian whites that settled further south. They all came from the same part of England as described in “Albion’s Seed”. When Morgan’s raid occurred during the Civil War, his troops were welcomed in the southern part of the state. Later, in the nineteen twenties, the southern part of the state was a hotbed of Klan activity. The northern part of the state was heavily settled by Germans fleeing Germany after the failed revolution of 1848. They were all liberal pacifist types rather than the typical conservative militarist German type. The Indiana writer Kurt Vonnegut was descended from them. The Indiana Germans were all ardent Republicans. Later on, they were joined by a bunch of Eastern Europeans who went to work in the steel mills around Gary. You can still see the divide in Indiana today, even in things like cuisine. In southern Indiana they eat chicken and dumplings, a southern dish, and in northern Indiana they eat chicken and noodles, a German and Eastern European dish.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  17. Did anyone wonder… if the much narrower gap between Northern Europe and Southern Europe couldn’t be closed in over a century, what made Europeans think they could close the much bigger gap between Europe and Africa by all these ‘progressive’ programs?

  18. @Lars Porsena

    Indiana and Ohio are pretty similar historically and culturally.

    Both have lots of industrial or post-industrial cities with the racial and ethnic history that they entail: Catholics; blacks; and so forth. And a lot of Appalachian mining families came into Indiana and Ohio from the 1940s through the 1970s as the Appalachian coal industry slowed its employment.

    But as for the heritage of their rural “heartlands,” they were or are – roughly speaking – more Yankee (New England/New York-derived ) in the North; more German (originally Pennsylvania German) in the center; more Southern in the south.

    It’s important to discuss what we mean by “Southern”, though. The Southerners who moved into Ohio and Indiana were not like Shelby Foote, John Calhoun, Jefferson Davis, or any of the people of Gone With the Wind. They were, in a word: Virginians and Kentuckians; hillbillies and middle class farmers; Abraham Lincoln and the ancestors of Larry Bird. They have a lot in common with the Appalachian South and a bit in common with poor whites of the Deep South. They have very little in common with the richer whites of the Deep South and the dominant tradition of that region.

    Although I will say that Indiana had a KKK influence at one time that truly would make the Deep South blush. Indiana had more KKK members – even a governor – than any other state in history.

    Ohio didn’t, though, which is kinda weird. I’m not sure why that was.

    With all that said, yes, Indiana is VERY weird. I know two guys from Marion, Indiana, a small city in central Indiana. One has a generic Northern American accent. The other has a very distinct Southern drawl. They’re both from the same town, and they’re of the same demographics and even the same generation. That’s how weird Indiana can get.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  19. Libertarianism will never attract more than a fringe element because it manages the neat trick of being simultaneously Utopian and passionless. After all, no one is going to exactly rush to the barricades to defend the “Right to Contract”. Practically speaking, the only parts of the libertarian agenda that are ever put into practice are cultural libertarianism, which is hedonism, and corporate libertarianism, which is proto-crypto fascism.

    And frankly, however good it may sound on paper, libertarianism usually does not survive contact with actual libertarians. Scratch one and you will often find a pedo and/or stoner lurking, who put the normies off with the spergy personality tics common to both.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  20. Muggles says:

    This is good news. 50 years ago, shortly after I started identifying myself as a libertarian, no one even knew what a “libertarian” was or what it meant, outside of a handful of mostly young intellectuals and close friends of Murray N. Rothbard. When you said you were a “libertarian” people would ask, “which library?”

    So this kind of survey, however vague, is hearty good news for America. There is also a small but persistent 3rd party, the Libertarian Party, which manages to stay on most state ballots despite the legal obstacles. They only began in 1972. While some of their pronouncements and candidates are less than ideal, it is quite a political feat. Other third parties and groups have come and gone. Even the more trendy Greens barely hang on. There is also an active libertarian group in the GOP, the Republican Liberty Caucus, which kicked off in 1992 and has backed candidates and gained members. Ron Paul is the most visible of both the LP and GOP libertarians in politics. Many libertarians prefer not to vote at all.

    This libertarian movement is not and has never been a Cult of Personality or the product of a single faction or idea. Of course it is the polar opposite of the current trendy movement in politics, the neo communist progressives and Identity Marxists, who sometimes ally with greens or racial or ethnic special interest factions. They have in common worship of the False Religion of Statism. The substitute of the State apparatus and leaders for spiritual religion and God(s).

    In short, libertarian-ism the antidote for the current Red Guardism of PC mind control.

  21. @songbird

    The NH result might be a clue to the source of the surprising Southern libertarianism. The “ethnic libertarians” might be the Scotch-Irish Borderers of Albion’s Seed. These people are of course numerous in the trans-Appalachian South, but there is also a significant sub-population in New Hampshire. So the map turns out to be a pretty good proxy for where the Scotch-Irish are.

    The only real outlier I see is that West Virginia ought to be darker.

    • Replies: @songbird
  22. Jay Fink says:

    My impression is New Hampshire used to be very libertarian, really living up to it’s “live free or die” motto. Maybe it would have ranked #1 on this list at one time. In recent years enough people moved in from Massachusetts that the state has shifted more liberal.

    • Agree: songbird
  23. @SFG

    No, even among the silver-tier third parties–neither Green nor Constitution really fits that.

    • Replies: @iffen
  24. @Endgame Napoleon

    The libertarian professors are among the best examples, making healthy six-figure salaries with great benefits teaching six hours a semester and taking in book royalties, etc on top of that, the work for which is done during what other professions would consider regular working hours.

  25. @Achmed E. Newman

    A multibillionaire without children or an extended family network is our best bet–someone like Peter Thiel. Unfortunately, he wasn’t born in the US.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  26. @Anon

    The psychological projection in the corporate media is staggering.

    • Replies: @WorkingClass
  27. @songbird

    Yes, I meant to point that out and Las Vegas as representing the closest thing to a “libertarian paradise” in the country to account for the relatively high rates in NH and NV.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    , @Feryl
  28. SFG says:
    @Lars Porsena

    The article sounds reasonable enough. The Ohio River let southerners enter from the south, and Indianapolis wasn’t as big as Cleveland or Chicago. (It is bigger than Cleveland now.)

  29. I have a comment at number 10 awaiting moderation. It appears above but never left the composition box below. I deleted it so I could write this message. It’s not a problem for me. This is for your information.

  30. @Audacious Epigone

    Do you really think it’s projection? I tend to assume they do it on purpose. Are they really that dense?

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  31. @Audacious Epigone

    Las Vegas is/was the home of my favorite Libertarian writer, one Mr. Vin Suprynowicz*, who for many years wrote a column for the Las Vegas Review-Journal. (It used to allow comments, so I’d had many conversations on there that have been wiped …) Peak Stupidity wrote about this great man and his views on the encroaching US Police State in “Papiere bitte!” – “Your papers, please!” and memories of Mr. Vin Suprynowicz.

    I made an effort to thank the man for his efforts in person one time, and he gave me his book The Ballad of Carl Drega, as I already had read his Send in the Waco Killers, a book that would probably not be found in the library any more, as during my reading.

    I’ll tell you another thing about Vin and Las Vegas. It may HAVE BEEN a Libertarian paradise, but the large-scale Hispanic immigration will not let any of that thrive. There is no libertarianism in the souls of these new residents. Even with Reason magazine’s ridiculous open-borders stance, it ain’t like they’ll get more than handful of subscribers from the illegal-alien community. Mr. Suprynowicz had not much to say about the illegal immigration back when I’d read him in the early ’00s, but he sure does now!


    * I have to ctlr-c, ctrl-v his last name, EVERY SINGLE TIME.

  32. @Audacious Epigone

    There’s really not much time left anyway. I thought Donald Trump’s being a playboy type and all would prelude any blackmail (as we’d all be “who cares?!), so maybe it’s threats, or maybe he really is just a complete dud.

    BTW, am I getting moderated now due to that slightly-un-PC comment of mine under your last post? Or, is it for everybody? It just started sometime today.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  33. Thomm says:

    The only way to save America is for a secret Libertarian to run as a Democrat.

    Mouth the obligatory socially-lefty views, bash the GOP for wars, but when in office, quietly cut costs while keeping the media saturated with soundbites that leftists like.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  34. songbird says:
    @Almost Missouri

    I always liked what Daniel Webster said of the Old Man of the Mountain:

    Men hang out their signs indicative of their respective trades; shoemakers hang out a gigantic shoe; jewelers a monster watch, and the dentist hangs out a gold tooth; but up in the Mountains of New Hampshire, God Almighty has hung out a sign to show that there He makes men.

    Too bad it collapsed.

  35. anon[347] • Disclaimer says:

    Libertarians and Marxists wish to wither away the State, so they can rule freely.

  36. iffen says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Second, I admire Andrew Jackson. I wish he had been alive in 1860-61. I have not the slightest doubt that he would have tried to hang every secessionist son-of-a-bitch in the South. It would have saved a lot of blood and sorrow.

    Agree #2; time to worry?

  37. iffen says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    No, even among the silver-tier third parties–neither Green nor Constitution really fits that.

    Somebody needs to start one.

  38. utu says:

    With few outliers if you plot your numbers vs. state IQ’s

    you will get a negative correlation.

  39. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    I’m one of those Libertarian NeoConfederates. Lincoln was America’s Lenin, a real b- (are we allowed to insult dead dictators?) who freed no slaves and enslaved free men with conscription. He brought the assassination upon himself.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  40. So basically libertarianism is the province of the backcountry “borderers” of David Hackett Fischer’s Albion’s Seed.

    No matter whether they came from the England or Scotland or Ireland, their libertarian ideas were very much alike—and profoundly different from notions of liberty that had been carried to Massachusetts, Virginia and Pennsylvania. The traveler Johann Schoepf was much interested in ideas of law and liberty which he found in the backcountry. “They shun everything which appears to demand of them law and order, and anything that preaches constraint,” Schoepf wrote of the backsettlers. “They hate the name of a justice, and yet they are not transgressors. Their object is merely wild. Altogether, natural freedom … is what pleases them.”

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  41. @Anatoly Karlin

    Compare this to the description of the Comanche Indians in S.C. Gywnne’s book Empire of the Summer Moon (Reviewed on Peak Stupidity – Part 1 and Part 2) with Part 3 to come in which I want to emphasize this:

    These Indians, for a century or 2, were living as free as men could ever live. That meant they were savages though, and they, and Hackett’s (I’ve read it) description is not a very good one of libertarianism – maybe one flavor, perhaps. It’s easy to say one might enjoy that life, but only if one didn’t contract a disease at a young age that nobody can cure, or die in the cold, and one didn’t have any of the curiosity of the white man.

    The most fascinating part of the book is the story of Cynthia Ann Parker, kidnapped in a bloody raid on her family’s ranch in east Texas at age 9. She had been with the tribe for 33 years, and did not want to go back when the US Army and Texas Rangers killed her Indian Chief husband in a quick battle. Though the women of the tribe did all the drudge work, cooking, cleaning nasty buffalo hides, packing/unpacking (they were nomadic), Cynthia Ann Parker could never fit back in with white society. Her son Quanah became the only full-out chief of the whole tribe, but it was as the wars were winding down, and reservations and deals had been made….

    Sorry, I got way off the subject, but do you see the comparison to the frontiersmen of the west (at the time)? No, Libertarianism works best with a very few laws. The best experiment in Libertarianism ever run was VERY SUCCESSFUL. Many know it as the United States of America, from 1789 to arguably 1860, 1913 or the election loss of Barry Goldwater to the Socialist fuck LBJ in 1964 – the latter is my latest line.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  42. Did a couple full state investigations

    Alabama’s Gen Z according to that gotoquiz

    Alabama’s Whites Female 18-29 – 762
    Democrats – 206 – 27%
    Republican – 266 – 35%
    Libertarian – 95 – 12.5%
    Constitution – 7 – 1%
    Green – 11 – 1.5%
    Independent – 143 – 18.5%
    Other – 64 – 8.5%

    Alabama’s White Female under 18 – 289
    Democrats – 56 – 19%
    Republican – 139 – 48%
    Libertarian – 44 – 15%
    Constitution – 4 – 1.5%
    Green – 5 – 1.5%
    Independent – 25 – 8.5%
    Other – 16 – 5.5%

    Alabama’s White Males 18-29 – 2,321
    Democrats – 366- 15%
    Republican – 705 – 30%
    Libertarian – 378 – 15.5%
    Constitution – 64 – 2.5%
    Green – 22 – 1%
    Independent – 581 – 25%
    Other – 205 – 9%

    Alabama’s White Males under 18 – 1,045
    Democrats – 135 – 13%
    Republican – 428 – 41%
    Libertarian – 201 – 19%
    Constitution – 43 – 4%
    Green – 14 – 1.5%
    Independent – 142 – 13.5%
    Other – 82 – 7.5%

    Alabama’s Black Females 18-29 – 47
    Democrats – 27 – 57.5%
    Republican – 4 – 8.5%
    Libertarian – 2 – 4%
    Constitution – 0
    Green – 0
    Independent – 12 – 25.5%
    Other – 2 – 4%

    Alabama’s Black Females under 18 – 36
    Democrats – 19 – 52%
    Republican – 2 – 5.5%
    Libertarian – 5 – 14%
    Constitution – 0
    Green – 2 – 5.5%
    Independent – 7 – 19.5%
    Other – 1 – 2.5%

    Alabama’s Black Males 18-29 – 105
    Democrats – 39 – 37%
    Republican – 15 – 14%
    Libertarian – 16 – 15%
    Constitution – 0
    Green – 1 – 1%
    Independent – 27 – 25.5%
    Other – 7 – 6.5%

    Alabama’s Black Males under 18 – 34
    Democrats – 14 – 41%
    Republican – 8 – 23.5%
    Libertarian – 4 – 15.5%
    Constitution – 0
    Green – 0
    Independent – 7 – 20.5%
    Other – 1 – 3%

    North Carolina White Females 18-29
    Democrats – 697 – 36%
    Republican – 441 – 22.5%
    Libertarian – 118 – 6%
    Constitution – 12 – 0.5%
    Green – 19 – 1%
    Independent – 543 – 28%
    Other – 115 – 6%

    North Carolina White Females under 18
    Democrats – 258 – 32.5%
    Republican – 240 – 30.5%
    Libertarian – 64 – 8%
    Constitution – 6 – 0.5%
    Green – 17 – 2%
    Independent – 152 – 19%
    Other – 51 – 6.5%

    North Carolina White Males 18-29
    Democrats – 1k – 21.5%
    Republican – 1.3k – 27.5%
    Libertarian – 554 – 12%
    Constitution – 70 – 1.5%
    Green – 79 – 1.5%
    Independent – 1.4k – 30%
    Other – 279 – 6%

    North Carolina White Males Under 18
    Democrats – 247 – 10.5%
    Republican – 919 – 40%
    Libertarian – 322 – 14%
    Constitution – 67 – 3%
    Green – 47 – 2%
    Independent – 514 – 22.5%
    Other – 179 – 8%

    North Carolina Black Females 18-29
    Democrats – 83 – 66%
    Republican – 4 – 3%
    Libertarian – 7 – 5.5%
    Constitution – 1 – 0.5%
    Green – 0
    Independent – 19 – 15%
    Other – 12 – 9.5%

    North Carolina Black Females under 18
    Democrats – 91 – 68.5%
    Republican – 8 – 6%
    Libertarian – 7 – 5%
    Constitution – 1 – 0.5%
    Green – 3 – 2%
    Independent – 18 – 13.5%
    Other – 5 – 3.5%

    North Carolina Black Males 18-29
    Democrats – 106 – 43%
    Republican – 23 – 9.5%
    Libertarian – 15 – 6%
    Constitution – 0
    Green – 1 – 0.5%
    Independent – 79 – 32%
    Other – 22 – 9%

    North Carolina Black Males under 18
    Democrats – 62 – 51.5%
    Republican – 13 – 10.5%
    Libertarian – 5 – 4%
    Constitution – 2 – 1.5%
    Green – 1 – 1%
    Independent – 25 – 21%
    Other – 12 – 10%

    North Carolina Hispanics 18-29
    Democrats – 64 – 31.5%
    Republican – 36 – 18%
    Libertarian – 15 – 7.5%
    Constitution – 1 – 0.5%
    Green – 4 – 2%
    Independent – 69 – 34%
    Other – 13 – 6.5%

    North Carolina Hispanics Under 18
    Democrats – 69 – 40%
    Republican – 44 – 25.5%
    Libertarian – 14 – 8%
    Constitution – 1 – 0.5%
    Green – 4 – 2.5%
    Independent – 31 – 18%
    Other – 10 – 5.5%

    Pennsylvania’s Gen Z according to Gotoquiz

    Pennsylvania White Females 18-29
    Democrats – 1.7k – 46%
    Republican – 946 – 25%
    Libertarian – 216 – 6%
    Constitution – 14 – 0.5%
    Green – 71 – 2%
    Independent – 613 – 16.5%
    Other – 130 – 3.5%

    Pennsylvania White Females under 18
    Democrats – 526 – 39%
    Republican – 406 – 30%
    Libertarian – 113 – 8.5%
    Constitution – 13 – 1%
    Green – 30 – 2.5%
    Independent – 212 – 15%
    Other – 48 – 3.5%

    Pennsylvania White Males 18-29
    Democrats – 2.7k – 29%
    Republican – 2.9k – 31%
    Libertarian – 1k – 11%
    Constitution – 106 – 1%
    Green – 142 – 1.5%
    Independent – 2k – 21.5%
    Other – 475 – 6%

    Pennsylvania White Males under 18
    Democrats – 897 – 20.5%
    Republican – 1.8k – 41%
    Libertarian – 563 – 13%
    Constitution – 94 – 2%
    Green – 107 – 2.5%
    Independent – 659 – 15%
    Other – 249 – 5.5%

    Pennsylvania Black Females 18-29
    Democrats – 92 – 70.5%
    Republican – 11 – 8.5%
    Libertarian – 5 – 4%
    Constitution – 0
    Green – 3 – 2%
    Independent – 15 – 11.5%
    Others – 4 – 3%

    Pennsylvania Black Females under 18
    Democrats – 47 – 73.5%
    Republican – 5 – 8%
    Libertarian – 2 – 3%
    Constitution – 0
    Green – 0
    Independent – 5 – 8%
    Others – 5 – 8%

    Pennsylvania Black Males 18-29
    Democrats – 120 – 57.5%
    Republican – 18 – 8.5%
    Libertarian – 10 – 5%
    Constitution – 1 – 0.5%
    Green – 3 – 1.5%
    Independent – 49 – 23.5%
    Others – 7 – 3%

    Pennsylvania Black Males Under 18
    Democrats – 55 – 52%
    Republican – 11 – 10.5%
    Libertarian – 7 – 6.5%
    Constitution – 1 – 1%
    Green – 7 – 6.5%
    Independent – 17 – 16%
    Others – 7 – 6.5%

    Pennsylvania Hispanics 18-29
    Democrats – 106 – 40%
    Republican – 49 – 18.5%
    Libertarian – 26 – 10%
    Constitution – 2 – 0.5%
    Green – 2 – 0.5%
    Independent – 60 – 22.5%
    Others – 19 – 7%

    Pennsylvania Hispanics under 18
    Democrats – 72 – 42.5%
    Republican – 31 – 18%
    Libertarian – 32 – 18.5%
    Constitution – 0
    Green – 3 – 1.5%
    Independent – 24 – 14%
    Others – 8 – 4.5%

    • Replies: @Jay Fink
  43. Alabama’s Gen Z according to that gotoquiz

    Alabama’s Whites Female 18-29 – 762
    Democrats – 206 – 27%
    Republican – 266 – 35%
    Libertarian – 95 – 12.5%
    Constitution – 7 – 1%
    Green – 11 – 1.5%
    Independent – 143 – 18.5%
    Other – 64 – 8.5%

    Alabama’s White Female under 18 – 289
    Democrats – 56 – 19%
    Republican – 139 – 48%
    Libertarian – 44 – 15%
    Constitution – 4 – 1.5%
    Green – 5 – 1.5%
    Independent – 25 – 8.5%
    Other – 16 – 5.5%

    Alabama’s White Males 18-29 – 2,321
    Democrats – 366- 15%
    Republican – 705 – 30%
    Libertarian – 378 – 15.5%
    Constitution – 64 – 2.5%
    Green – 22 – 1%
    Independent – 581 – 25%
    Other – 205 – 9%

    Alabama’s White Males under 18 – 1,045
    Democrats – 135 – 13%
    Republican – 428 – 41%
    Libertarian – 201 – 19%
    Constitution – 43 – 4%
    Green – 14 – 1.5%
    Independent – 142 – 13.5%
    Other – 82 – 7.5%

    Alabama’s Black Females 18-29 – 47
    Democrats – 27 – 57.5%
    Republican – 4 – 8.5%
    Libertarian – 2 – 4%
    Constitution – 0
    Green – 0
    Independent – 12 – 25.5%
    Other – 2 – 4%

    Alabama’s Black Females under 18 – 36
    Democrats – 19 – 52%
    Republican – 2 – 5.5%
    Libertarian – 5 – 14%
    Constitution – 0
    Green – 2 – 5.5%
    Independent – 7 – 19.5%
    Other – 1 – 2.5%

    Alabama’s Black Males 18-29 – 105
    Democrats – 39 – 37%
    Republican – 15 – 14%
    Libertarian – 16 – 15%
    Constitution – 0
    Green – 1 – 1%
    Independent – 27 – 25.5%
    Other – 7 – 6.5%

    Alabama’s Black Males under 18 – 34
    Democrats – 14 – 41%
    Republican – 8 – 23.5%
    Libertarian – 4 – 15.5%
    Constitution – 0
    Green – 0
    Independent – 7 – 20.5%
    Other – 1 – 3%

  44. Jay Fink says:

    This is the site where I first learned about the trend but I am still surprised how strong Republicans are under age 18. I wonder if this is old fashioned teen rebellion? The kids are being indoctrinated to be liberals so maybe the other side has a forbidden fruit aspect to it. Another possibility is that teens like Trump. His non-politician personality type might be appealing to them so they feel goodwill towards Republicans in general. Of course another possibility is that the white kids feel they are a hated near-minority so they are grouping together as Republicans the way minorities have done for years with the Democrats.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  45. @Fidelios Automata

    Can’t do agree (tried since yesterday), but:


    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  46. @Bragadocious


    No dehumanizing language, no matter how clever!

  47. @WorkingClass

    Yes, Mark’s summary is a very good one. The objectivists are today the least significant of the three major factions, more of a boogeyman and caricature for hostile sources than anything else. The Rothbardians don’t have anything like the funding of the Cato/Reason faction, but they’re a lot more exciting.

  48. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    The Yanks were the first to try nullification, even historically it’s not a specifically Southern thing.

  49. @WorkingClass

    I don’t know what to think. I’m not being flippant in writing that, either.

  50. @Achmed E. Newman

    As you’ve probably gathered by now, it was me figuring things out on the backside. Let me know if you have any more issues with auto-approval. You shouldn’t.

  51. @Thomm

    Trump does the opposite–big words, no stick. Interestingly, it’s in the areas that he seems to basically be following your advice that he is getting ‘the most done’ (ie removing environmental regulations).

    • Replies: @Feryl
  52. @Achmed E. Newman

    It should work now. Let me know if it doesn’t.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  53. @Jay Fink

    A response I often get is that kids at that age mostly just ape their parents politically. One obvious problem with that explanation is the gap between white males and white females, though. Republicans aren’t that much more likely to have boys/less likely to have girls than Democrats are.

  54. I wish I could remember who said it, but it’s something like “Almost any political system will work, as long as almost everybody in it is white.”

    Libertarians have wonderful theories, but the facts on the ground are: 1, Libertarianism means no gibs; 2, Blacks need gibs and they will burn everything to the ground if they stop coming.

    See the video from the 1992 LA riots on gib day. Suddenly no one was very concerned about police injustice. “That was yesterday, I need my gibs today!”

    Libertarians should definitely be ethno-nationalists.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  55. Feryl says:
    @Lars Porsena

    This looks like yet another proxy for American folk-ways; the Cavalier/Scots-Irish abhor do-gooder government. The central band of the US has Scots-Irish influence but also has Mid-lander/Puritan influence. The Northern tier of states is dominated by Puritans/Mid-landers, with minimal Scots-Irish culture.

    The Deep South has virtually no trace of Puritan/Teutonic culture; actual German ancestry does exist in Texas and Nevada, but these states culturally are Scots-Irish to the core. The opposite is true in the Northeast and Upper Midwest; Scots-Irish genetics can be found here, but culturally these regions are dominated by the Puritan/Mid-lander Brits and their fellow travelers, the Teutons, all of whom settled the Northeast and Upper Midwest. And Jews, Poles, Irish-Catholics etc. have all proven powerless to change the fundamental do-goodism of Puritan north culture (so too do Asians/Mexicans etc. adopt the Yankee credo, as America’s “liberal” aka Northeastern culture appears to be far out-pacing the more Scots-Irish culture of the South, near-South, and West, whereas in the 70’s and 80’s Northeastern Puritan culture appeared to be dingy, impotent, and vulnerable to being surpassed by “Southern-Western” aka Scots-Irish culture.

    My thoughts on Indiana is that it’s the most Scots-Irish state to not be in the South; because it’s such an outlier, it causes some people there to exaggerate their persona. And as another person suggested, it seems that based on personal preference, family history, and social class, some Indianans come off as very Southern/Scots-Irish, while others seem more like generic Midwesterners.

  56. Feryl says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    With all that said, yes, Indiana is VERY weird. I know two guys from Marion, Indiana, a small city in central Indiana. One has a generic Northern American accent. The other has a very distinct Southern drawl. They’re both from the same town, and they’re of the same demographics and even the same generation. That’s how weird Indiana can get.

    Accents within most Eastern states are all over the map. The accent you develop can be based your tenure in a particular area, your social class, whether you grew up in a working class suburb/small town or an affluent suburb/any type of urban area, your family’s background, the background of your classmates or close friends/neighbors, and the like. And accents can change a great deal as you go further North/South/East/West. I know people from Western Wisconsin who sound far different than people who grew up in any type of area in Minnesota. People born after circa 1975 tend to sound much more like Cali Valley Girls than older generations, even if they grew up on the East Coast. I have a cousing, born in 1979, who grew up in Cali. and she doesn’t sound that out of place among Millennials born in Minnesota.

    There’s no such thing as “generic” American accent, although people from Iowa and Nebraska are reported to have the “plainest” (smooth, easy to understand, few inflections) accents. But people in Minnesota/Wisconsin/Michigan have very distinct accents (much less of a smooth “flow”, no drawl at all), while people in the Southern Midwest can sound borderline Southern).

  57. Feryl says:

    Utah is a socially conservative outlier in the West*; New Hampshire is a gubmint hating outlier in the Northeast. The exception proves the rule.

    *Utah is the Western state most settled by Puritan Anglos, which is why the state has always chafed at the “Wild West” culture that the Scots-Irish (and Celtic immigrants) favored in the rest of the West.

  58. Feryl says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    New Hampshire is too politically old and (literally and emotionally) frigid to go all in on social libertinism; they care most about lowering their taxes. Nevada is one of the (politically) youngest and most “warm” (hedonistic) states, so they go all in on hookers, gambling, etc. Anyone in their right mind would much rather live in New Hampshire. The interior Western states are a nut-house*, aside from Utah.

    *The Pacific states are saner, but at the moment have absurdly high living costs, so basically if you want to live in the Western US you don’t have many good options: either the super expensive coast, or the ideologically crazy interior states.

  59. Feryl says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Peter Turchin says that measures of well-being increased from 1900-1960, gradually declined from 1961-1974 (rising crime rate, divorce rates, immigration rates, people placing their bank accounts ahead of communal well-being, etc.), and since about 1975 these negative trends have all greatly intensified (The Disco era gave us AIDs and cocaine abuse, Carter was the first president to push for de-regulation since the 1920’s, serial killing became a terrible problem in the late 70’s, child abuse got got much worse, and so forth). The Reagan-Trump era has seen a major growth in mass murders, political gridlock, decaying infrastructure, and so forth.

    When the onus was on our elites and institutions to do what was in the best interests of normal people (which peaked in the 1940’s and 50’s), people were happy and healthy. As the emphasis shifted to catering to elites, and “minorities” (cultural, sexual, racial, etc.) in the 60’s and 70’s, progress for normal people halted, then we began to regress on many measures with every passing decade since.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  60. Feryl says:
    @Tarl Cabot

    The libertarian thing always seems very impotent (and worthless to enthno-nationalists/cultural conservatives), because invariably their focal point issues (low taxes, opposition to war, and drug legalization) neatly dodge issues that would get them labeled “racist”/”xenophobic”/”sexist” etc.

    Libertarians alienate cultural conservatives (by supporting multi-culturalism and homosexuals/trannies) , while alienating economic liberals (by being being hostile to “big government”).

    No movement whose message is:”Leave me alone, let me do whatever I want with my body and my money”, will ever find much traction. Normal people are turned off by such narcissism.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  61. Feryl says:
    @Mark G.

    They were all liberal pacifist types rather than the typical conservative militarist German type.

    The Midwest, esp. the Upper Midwest, has very little investment in the military. The Scandinavians, and Puritan-ish Germans who settled the region along with the (heavily Puritan) Brits, are indeed quite pacifist.

  62. @Sextus Empiricus

    That requires an exception for the Soviet Union, doesn’t it?

  63. @Feryl

    Indeed, almost meme-worthy.

    • Replies: @iffen
  64. @Feryl

    No, you’ve got it all wrong. The Presidents at the times didn’t have a whole lot to do with it, as they were more symptoms than factors. What was different in the times before the mid-1960’s (and again arguably one could draw the line at the early ’30’s or 19-teens), Feryl, is not that the elites were better people. If they are greedy and don’t care about the common people, the elites can only make people behave in certain ways via the use of certain authorities that can fine, jail, and kill people. Those certain authorities are the US Feral Gov’t.

    When Government is small, elites cannot do but so much harm. As Peak Stupidity corrected Tucker Carlson regarding his otherwise excellent book, Ship of Fools*, it’s not that we need better elites, we need to strip the power back away from them. That may not be possible with the 50-odd million most-unlibertarian newcomers that we have now, but my point here was to point out your basic misunderstanding of libertarianism and freedom. I see too much of this here on unz, with otherwise bright people.


    * Part 2 and Part 3 of the book review.

  65. @Audacious Epigone

    I used one of my precious [AGREE]s earlier today for a comment by Mr. Empiricus. It worked fine – thanks for the feedback, A.E.

  66. @Audacious Epigone

    That’s not what I think Mr. Empricius was saying, or there would have been no AGREE out of me. He didn’t mean it the other way around. You can have white, brown, yellow, black, or any shade of people living in the most f__d-up political systems. You cannot, though, have anything resembling free-market, leave-me-alone/I-leave-you-alone Libertarianism with certain groups of people, as they just want free stuff.

    I wouldn’t particularly limit it to whites, genetically speaking. However, the 5,000-year Chinese history has had NO periods of anything resembling real freedom (too many people too close together forever? I dunno), the Latin American people’s have no idea of this sort of thing, and, yes blacks would rather beat up people, whether literally or monetarily, for their stuff than work honestly for it, in general. The English have the biggest history of not letting anyone be an absolute ruler. That worked itself into the Colonies very well, especially because of the wide-open spaces. The freedom that Americans had from the 1700’s through the 1980’s could be fluke that will never be seen again on planet Earth. #SAD

  67. @Feryl

    “Leave me alone, let me do whatever I want with my body and my money”

    Perhaps you need to read more. I could suggest a dozen writers who could explain these concepts better than I. Add on “let me do what I want with my family, my land, my other property, and my associations with others.” Libertarianism is what normal people dream of when their imagination is not so small.

  68. @Audacious Epigone

    OOPS, I did screw up, A.E., as I didn’t read the 1st line carefully. Yeah, the Soviet Union was a mostly-all-white disaster. It can work to where people don’t die in mass quantities (except it didn’t!), but life is still miserable and the waste of humanity criminal.

    Hey, my AGREE-REMOVAL tool is broken! ;-}

  69. iffen says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    Boomers, boomers, boomers, quit your whining and keep paying your payroll taxes.

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