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That used to be a frequent refrain on Radio Derb. Though the gag has been made emeritus, the advice is even better today than it was when the Derb introduced it. As he explains:

The percentage breakdown is private-sector 76 percent, government 16 percent, self-employed 8 percent.

So one in six of us works for a government, federal, state, or local.

Which group does best on salary? Go on: see if you can guess. It’s government workers, of course. Median earnings 52½ thousand. That’s six percent higher than the self-employed and fourteen percent higher than the poor shlubs toiling away in the private sector.

If you break down government workers into two further categories, state and local workers in category one, federal workers in category two, which does better?

Again, which did you think? Federal workers are way out ahead, median earnings 66 thousand. Even state and local government workers are ahead of us private-sector and self-employed losers, though.

Moral of the story: Get a government job! — federal for strong preference.

The public is in broad agreement. A recent YouGov survey asked respondents if they would encourage or discourage a young person considering working for the federal government from doing so. The following graph shows net encouragement by selected demographic characteristics. Net encouragement is calculated by figuring (2*%strongly encourage)+(%somewhat encourage)-(%somewhat discourage)-(2*%strongly discourage):

Responses for all groups are positive on net. That is, everyone is generally encouraging of the idea–old black Democrats especially so.

Though it is well known that a government gig is a gravy train, opinions of the people with said gigs is embarrassingly low as the results from several additional survey questions show.

First, how frequently the government can be trusted “to do what’s right”:

Uh, it looks like a couple of relevant potential responses are missing there. It’s not a transcription error on my part, though. Those were the three responses participants had to choose from. Dear citizen, please rate your experience at this mandatory government instructional seminar. Would you say it was great, good, or average? Zoomers (and young millennials) are singled out because they vary substantially from other age cohorts. Bernie, they sort of trust you! Even their relatively less suspicious inclination reflects poorly on American democracy. We view as slimeballs those we’ve chosen to govern us.

Why can’t the government be trusted to do what’s right? Because the people who populate it are crooks and liars. Asked whether “hardly any”, “not many” or “quite a few” people in the federal government are crooked, the following percentages answered with “quite a few” (“not sure” responses, constituting 12% of the total, are excluded):

Hard to imagine how all the mendacity and prevarication used to fabricate the Russia Ukraine Hoax has helped the government’s case much over the last three years.

Accompanying a strong sense of corruption is the perception of widespread incompetence. Presented with a binary choice between “the people running the government are smart” and “quite a few of them don’t seem to know what they are doing”, a solid majority chose the latter (“not sure”, at 21% of all responses, is again excluded):

But we’re one election away from setting everything straight. We’re always just one election away. This election. Yes, this election! Every election is that one election of paramount importance–the most important election of our lifetime!

Part of the reason Americans don’t trust the government is because many don’t trust the people the government is waving in. The percentages who say naturalized citizens are “only” or “mostly” loyal to the US rather than to the country they hail from (19% “not sure” excluded):

Dual loyalty leads to no loyalty. If America isn’t first, she will in time cease to be America at all.

 
• Category: Culture/Society, Foreign Policy • Tags: Government, Polling 
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  1. Part of the reason Americans don’t trust the government is because many don’t trust the people the government is waving in.

    This is not to take away from your point on the last bar-graph, A.E., but people have had reasons to not trust the US government (at least) for many decades now. Some would say since Lincoln, others ~ 1913, others since FDR, and almost everyone else since the 1970s. The reasons are too numerous to list in this textarea Ron’s got here.

    This brings me to another point. What you wrote before graph 3:

    Why can’t the government be trusted to do what’s right? Because the people who populate it are crooks and liars.

    AND your point of presenting graph 4, that people in government are incompetent, are not the sole reasons government won’t do what’s right. I personally can’t trust Americans, especially the more Socialist Millennials, to understand this, but I’d still have like to see the questions:

    Should the Federal government be involved in education?
    Should any government be involved in health care?
    Should a government be running your retirement plan?
    Considering the invasions of privacy, the huge amount of money redistributed, the accounting nightmares created for individuals, the perverse incentives created, and the change in the flow of money that gives the Feral Gov’t much larger power, was Amendment XVI allowing a Federal income tax a good idea?
    etc, etc, and so on.

    Yeah, the latter was a loaded question, but that’s how you do polls, right? ;-}

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    It's quite the thing--Americans want government to do everything but don't think government can effectively do anything. Whether decline will be sudden or happen in fits and bursts, these contradicting sentiments are yet another thing that presages it, I think.
    , @Adam Smith

    Yeah, the latter was a loaded question
     
    The Brushaber decision ruled that the 16th Amendment did not amend or change the U.S. Constitution. The sixteenth amendment conferred no new power of taxation to the "government".

    The income tax is an excise tax on your corporate privilege to have profit.

    I have a feeling you already knew this.
  2. A few more comments here:

    Mr. Derbyshire didn’t mention this is the particular “diary” you linked to, but it’s been discussed before: There used to be a trade-off be the stable career of a government drone with a lower salary vs. the more free-wheeling regular job, not as stable but with higher pay. Now, there’s no trade-off. For someone just trying to ease through life, the government job is better. That does indeed encourage the lazy even more.

    The young cohort, so to speak, was said to be quite a bit more on the Socialist-leaning side in some previous posts of yours, A.E. Yet here, they are less encouraging to young people (themselves, basically) to work in government. Either they don’t believe their own Socialist rhetoric or they are less encouraging about basically ANYTHING. (As you say though, the numbers are positive for all of the groups.)

    I’m gonna re-emphasize that American’s view of the crookedness and incompetence of the people in government positions is not the only reason (and IMO, not the MAIN reason) for graph 2. The Feral Gov’t can’t be trusted often because its a bureaucracy and it’s doing functions that should not be functions of ANY government. What do people expect? Do they not understand the wisdom of the Founding Fathers of the US? That’s the real problem, and you’ll see this non-understanding right here in comments to come under this post.

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt

    Do they not understand the wisdom of the Founding Fathers of the US? That’s the real problem, and you’ll see this non-understanding right here in comments to come under this post.

     

    Forget it, Achmed, it's America Town.

    Try explaining to the average White American the concept of how the Founding Fathers were especially wary of a large standing army and you might get through to their brains through their foot thick skulls after 500 hours of explaining it to them.

    The White Core America Party has a simple motto:

    Never Explain, Never Instruct, Never Complain -- Always BRIBE The Voters!

    Back in 2015 it was the 8 hundred year anniversary of the Magna Carta -- I almost left the extra H in Carta in there -- and that was partially about the Norman nobles not wanting to give the king a large standing army because the king was going to tax the nobles for it and the king could become all powerful if he had a large standing army.

    The Founding Fathers of the USA were English men who knew that a large standing army in the hands of the central government would grab not just tax loot but political power.

    Tenth Amendment has been killed by the Federal Reserve Bank with concentrated monetary power and the military Keynesianism racket has made the US military a giant jobs program.

    The average American is a brainwashed boob with too much belly fat.

    I say raise the federal funds rate to 20 percent and implode the asset bubbles in stocks, bonds and real estate. That will get the attention of the overfed slobs waddling around Wal-Mart and the like.

    White Core America Rising!

    Bribe The White Women Now!
  3. @Achmed E. Newman

    Part of the reason Americans don’t trust the government is because many don’t trust the people the government is waving in.
     
    This is not to take away from your point on the last bar-graph, A.E., but people have had reasons to not trust the US government (at least) for many decades now. Some would say since Lincoln, others ~ 1913, others since FDR, and almost everyone else since the 1970s. The reasons are too numerous to list in this textarea Ron's got here.

    This brings me to another point. What you wrote before graph 3:

    Why can’t the government be trusted to do what’s right? Because the people who populate it are crooks and liars.
     
    AND your point of presenting graph 4, that people in government are incompetent, are not the sole reasons government won't do what's right. I personally can't trust Americans, especially the more Socialist Millennials, to understand this, but I'd still have like to see the questions:

    Should the Federal government be involved in education?
    Should any government be involved in health care?
    Should a government be running your retirement plan?
    Considering the invasions of privacy, the huge amount of money redistributed, the accounting nightmares created for individuals, the perverse incentives created, and the change in the flow of money that gives the Feral Gov't much larger power, was Amendment XVI allowing a Federal income tax a good idea?
    etc, etc, and so on.
     
    Yeah, the latter was a loaded question, but that's how you do polls, right? ;-}

    It’s quite the thing–Americans want government to do everything but don’t think government can effectively do anything. Whether decline will be sudden or happen in fits and bursts, these contradicting sentiments are yet another thing that presages it, I think.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Yeah, but since this is statistics, after all, it's often not the same people, so not contradictory at an individual level for most. Still, there are plenty with some serious cognitive dissonance filling up their thin indoctrinated skulls.
    , @iffen
    Americans want government to do everything but don’t think government can effectively do anything.

    Are these the same people?
    , @MikeatMikedotMike
    "Americans want government to do everything"

    And which Americans would those be?
  4. The percentage breakdown is private-sector 76 percent, government 16 percent, self-employed 8 percent.

    Once more unto the privatization problem:

    How many of the private sector jobs are those that work at private businesses or corporations that are heavily reliant on government funds or contracts for their operations and profits?

    France is said to have over 50 percent of GDP derived from the central government and other government jurisdictions. The internet says the USA has 35 percent of GDP derived from government at all levels. Some CATO guy says 41 percent. I think it is much, much more.

    https://www.cato.org/blog/american-government-spending-41-gdp

    How about the private sector workers building and refurbishing US military submarines and other US military ships on the East Coast and the Gulf Coast?

    If the so-called economy is “booming” according the corporate propaganda apparatus, why can’t the privately-controlled Federal Reserve Bank raise the federal funds rate above 3 percent? The answer is that the asset bubbles in stocks, bonds and real estate would immediately implode if the federal funds rate were to got to 4 percent, and that is 2 percent less than the normal fed funds rate of 6 percent.

    If the economy is “booming,” why is the yearly federal government deficit a trillion dollars? What would the GDP be without a trillion dollars of federal government spending and other government jurisdictional deficit spending?

    There is no capitalism in the world — there is only central banker shysterism.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    "How many of the private sector jobs are those that work at private businesses or corporations that are heavily reliant on government funds or contracts for their operations and profits?"

    Another concept is how local governments are beginning and continuing to contract out jobs to private firms. In Illinois, you have prisons, tollways, parking meters, roadway maintenance, etc all being farmed out to privates.

    Whatever money the local G pretends that it is saving by reducing payroll and benefits is merely transferred to the contractor in massively overbid contracts and kickbacks.
    , @dvorak

    The internet says the USA has 35 percent of GDP derived from government at all levels. Some CATO guy says 41 percent. I think it is much, much more.
     
    You're underestimating the enormous, resilient private sector, both in the real economy and in the financial. Go down the list of Fortune 500 corporations and you'll find it in those companies' customers.

    Mobile phones and in-app purchases (entertainment)
    Enterprise software
    Fast-moving consumer goods
    Farming (powered by diesel fuel from oil companies)
    Transportation (ditto)
    Commercial real estate (construction, maintenance and commercial banking)
  5. @Audacious Epigone
    It's quite the thing--Americans want government to do everything but don't think government can effectively do anything. Whether decline will be sudden or happen in fits and bursts, these contradicting sentiments are yet another thing that presages it, I think.

    Yeah, but since this is statistics, after all, it’s often not the same people, so not contradictory at an individual level for most. Still, there are plenty with some serious cognitive dissonance filling up their thin indoctrinated skulls.

  6. @Achmed E. Newman
    A few more comments here:

    Mr. Derbyshire didn't mention this is the particular "diary" you linked to, but it's been discussed before: There used to be a trade-off be the stable career of a government drone with a lower salary vs. the more free-wheeling regular job, not as stable but with higher pay. Now, there's no trade-off. For someone just trying to ease through life, the government job is better. That does indeed encourage the lazy even more.

    The young cohort, so to speak, was said to be quite a bit more on the Socialist-leaning side in some previous posts of yours, A.E. Yet here, they are less encouraging to young people (themselves, basically) to work in government. Either they don't believe their own Socialist rhetoric or they are less encouraging about basically ANYTHING. (As you say though, the numbers are positive for all of the groups.)

    I'm gonna re-emphasize that American's view of the crookedness and incompetence of the people in government positions is not the only reason (and IMO, not the MAIN reason) for graph 2. The Feral Gov't can't be trusted often because its a bureaucracy and it's doing functions that should not be functions of ANY government. What do people expect? Do they not understand the wisdom of the Founding Fathers of the US? That's the real problem, and you'll see this non-understanding right here in comments to come under this post.

    Do they not understand the wisdom of the Founding Fathers of the US? That’s the real problem, and you’ll see this non-understanding right here in comments to come under this post.

    Forget it, Achmed, it’s America Town.

    Try explaining to the average White American the concept of how the Founding Fathers were especially wary of a large standing army and you might get through to their brains through their foot thick skulls after 500 hours of explaining it to them.

    The White Core America Party has a simple motto:

    Never Explain, Never Instruct, Never Complain — Always BRIBE The Voters!

    Back in 2015 it was the 8 hundred year anniversary of the Magna Carta — I almost left the extra H in Carta in there — and that was partially about the Norman nobles not wanting to give the king a large standing army because the king was going to tax the nobles for it and the king could become all powerful if he had a large standing army.

    The Founding Fathers of the USA were English men who knew that a large standing army in the hands of the central government would grab not just tax loot but political power.

    Tenth Amendment has been killed by the Federal Reserve Bank with concentrated monetary power and the military Keynesianism racket has made the US military a giant jobs program.

    The average American is a brainwashed boob with too much belly fat.

    I say raise the federal funds rate to 20 percent and implode the asset bubbles in stocks, bonds and real estate. That will get the attention of the overfed slobs waddling around Wal-Mart and the like.

    White Core America Rising!

    Bribe The White Women Now!

  7. And why I am very suspect of the employment numbers. If i play along then the system is growth. But if I apply some basic rules concerning how and why one wants private sector growth against actual gdp and exports vs imports — minus the money spent on government, including employment — then the economy has a very different look.

    (by actual gdp I mean terminal sales not sales to middle sales conduits)

  8. @Audacious Epigone
    It's quite the thing--Americans want government to do everything but don't think government can effectively do anything. Whether decline will be sudden or happen in fits and bursts, these contradicting sentiments are yet another thing that presages it, I think.

    Americans want government to do everything but don’t think government can effectively do anything.

    Are these the same people?

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    These results make it appear that at least many of them are.
  9. And why I am very suspect of the employment numbers. If i play along then the system is growth. But if I apply some basic rules concerning how and why one wants private sector growth against actual gdp and exports vs imports — minus the money spent on government, including employment — then the economy has a very different look.

    (by actual gdp I mean terminal sales not sales to middle sales conduits)

    ——————————————–

    “Bribe The White Women Now!”

    Laughing. You do realize that the country has been bribing white women since the mid to late seventies via Affirmative Action to the distribution of 70% plus.

    ———————————————

    I think that last poll is simply a sign of how ignorant and positive view that citizens have.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    “Bribe The White Women Now!”

    Laughing. You do realize that the country has been bribing white women since the mid to late seventies via Affirmative Action to the distribution of 70% plus.
     
    We don't want affirmative action. It might help to offer us something we actually want. Chiefly, we want safe neighborhoods and schools and good jobs. Trump promised these, but didn't deliver.

    Though, I have to tell you, on behalf of homemakers everywhere, please let's ditch the low-flow toilets.

    https://youtu.be/XGChTEfeeC4
  10. In the case of the US Federal government, I would expect employees to be better paid than private sector workers, at least when it comes to similar work. An immense corporation using its purchasing power to out-compete its rivals.

    It would be interesting to see the breakdowns on this, if available.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
    As a veteran of both, it is clear that private vs .gov employment are total apples and oranges.

    In the private sector the risk/reward ratio is _much_ higher. You can get paid a lot more (especially with bonuses or other perks) but you can be fired or re-organized out of a job much more easily.

    When I was younger I was more comfortable playing the private sector slot machine.

    When I got older I wanted the bennies and the job security.

    True (funny) story--When I went to the .gov job interview the old chain-smoking white male boss looked at my (over-qualified) resume and said the following: "We have a lot of really stupid people working here. Can you handle that?"

    I lied and told him I was fine with it.

    He wasn't lying--he warned me.

    , @Audacious Epigone
    Indeed. Enormous purchasing power and a firm grip on the levers of legal power, too.
  11. I’d like to see a box added to tax return forms. Check it, if you think the government did a bad job spending your tax money last year, and save an extra dollar this year, as an apology.

    I suppose it would mean an automatic audit or something, but I think it would be great to add even such a small feedback mechanism.

  12. @Nodwink
    In the case of the US Federal government, I would expect employees to be better paid than private sector workers, at least when it comes to similar work. An immense corporation using its purchasing power to out-compete its rivals.

    It would be interesting to see the breakdowns on this, if available.

    As a veteran of both, it is clear that private vs .gov employment are total apples and oranges.

    In the private sector the risk/reward ratio is _much_ higher. You can get paid a lot more (especially with bonuses or other perks) but you can be fired or re-organized out of a job much more easily.

    When I was younger I was more comfortable playing the private sector slot machine.

    When I got older I wanted the bennies and the job security.

    True (funny) story–When I went to the .gov job interview the old chain-smoking white male boss looked at my (over-qualified) resume and said the following: “We have a lot of really stupid people working here. Can you handle that?”

    I lied and told him I was fine with it.

    He wasn’t lying–he warned me.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    The stereotype of the mid-level government official is power-tripping pettiness, but in my professional experience the friendly mediocrity is more common.
  13. I had one gummint job in my life. Within weeks I realized I was expected to be a Muskox, horns to the outside, protecting the bums in the middle. One of the first to be protected, through silence if nothing else, was a fellow employee who was molesting his 10 year old daughter. The lying, theft, and deception continued at all levels. I got out and worked for private industry for the rest of my career.

  14. @Audacious Epigone
    It's quite the thing--Americans want government to do everything but don't think government can effectively do anything. Whether decline will be sudden or happen in fits and bursts, these contradicting sentiments are yet another thing that presages it, I think.

    “Americans want government to do everything”

    And which Americans would those be?

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    I know what you want me to say, but I'm not going to say it.

    ...

    ...

    ...

    ...

    Fine, I'll say it.

    ...

    ...

    ...

    ...

    Democrats, of course!
    , @Twodees Partain
    "And which Americans would those be?"

    The fictitious ones that the pollsters claim to have questioned, probably.
  15. @Charles Pewitt

    The percentage breakdown is private-sector 76 percent, government 16 percent, self-employed 8 percent.

     

    Once more unto the privatization problem:

    How many of the private sector jobs are those that work at private businesses or corporations that are heavily reliant on government funds or contracts for their operations and profits?

    France is said to have over 50 percent of GDP derived from the central government and other government jurisdictions. The internet says the USA has 35 percent of GDP derived from government at all levels. Some CATO guy says 41 percent. I think it is much, much more.

    https://www.cato.org/blog/american-government-spending-41-gdp

    How about the private sector workers building and refurbishing US military submarines and other US military ships on the East Coast and the Gulf Coast?

    If the so-called economy is "booming" according the corporate propaganda apparatus, why can't the privately-controlled Federal Reserve Bank raise the federal funds rate above 3 percent? The answer is that the asset bubbles in stocks, bonds and real estate would immediately implode if the federal funds rate were to got to 4 percent, and that is 2 percent less than the normal fed funds rate of 6 percent.

    If the economy is "booming," why is the yearly federal government deficit a trillion dollars? What would the GDP be without a trillion dollars of federal government spending and other government jurisdictional deficit spending?

    There is no capitalism in the world -- there is only central banker shysterism.

    “How many of the private sector jobs are those that work at private businesses or corporations that are heavily reliant on government funds or contracts for their operations and profits?”

    Another concept is how local governments are beginning and continuing to contract out jobs to private firms. In Illinois, you have prisons, tollways, parking meters, roadway maintenance, etc all being farmed out to privates.

    Whatever money the local G pretends that it is saving by reducing payroll and benefits is merely transferred to the contractor in massively overbid contracts and kickbacks.

    • Agree: iffen
  16. @iffen
    Americans want government to do everything but don’t think government can effectively do anything.

    Are these the same people?

    These results make it appear that at least many of them are.

  17. @Nodwink
    In the case of the US Federal government, I would expect employees to be better paid than private sector workers, at least when it comes to similar work. An immense corporation using its purchasing power to out-compete its rivals.

    It would be interesting to see the breakdowns on this, if available.

    Indeed. Enormous purchasing power and a firm grip on the levers of legal power, too.

  18. @Justvisiting
    As a veteran of both, it is clear that private vs .gov employment are total apples and oranges.

    In the private sector the risk/reward ratio is _much_ higher. You can get paid a lot more (especially with bonuses or other perks) but you can be fired or re-organized out of a job much more easily.

    When I was younger I was more comfortable playing the private sector slot machine.

    When I got older I wanted the bennies and the job security.

    True (funny) story--When I went to the .gov job interview the old chain-smoking white male boss looked at my (over-qualified) resume and said the following: "We have a lot of really stupid people working here. Can you handle that?"

    I lied and told him I was fine with it.

    He wasn't lying--he warned me.

    The stereotype of the mid-level government official is power-tripping pettiness, but in my professional experience the friendly mediocrity is more common.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting

    The stereotype of the mid-level government official is power-tripping pettiness, but in my professional experience the friendly mediocrity is more common.
     
    Yeah--only the senior executive service and the political appointees tend to be the sociopaths with their own nasty agenda (often involving self-promotion).

    Everybody else is pleasant (if often not very bright).

    It takes many years to figure out how to actually get something done.

    A clever old-timer once remarked that nothing happened unless you had folks with both the ability, knowledge and the determination to accomplish any significant task. (Now we are talking under 1% of .gov employees.)

    If you could get three or four such folks in a room together, they could make impossible stuff happen. They kept a low profile to make sure the political types never found out who they were. ;-)
  19. @MikeatMikedotMike
    "Americans want government to do everything"

    And which Americans would those be?

    I know what you want me to say, but I’m not going to say it.

    Fine, I’ll say it.

    Democrats, of course!

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    The first set of dots revealed the hook. :)

    And the only thing I want from you is unfiltered honesty.
  20. @Audacious Epigone
    The stereotype of the mid-level government official is power-tripping pettiness, but in my professional experience the friendly mediocrity is more common.

    The stereotype of the mid-level government official is power-tripping pettiness, but in my professional experience the friendly mediocrity is more common.

    Yeah–only the senior executive service and the political appointees tend to be the sociopaths with their own nasty agenda (often involving self-promotion).

    Everybody else is pleasant (if often not very bright).

    It takes many years to figure out how to actually get something done.

    A clever old-timer once remarked that nothing happened unless you had folks with both the ability, knowledge and the determination to accomplish any significant task. (Now we are talking under 1% of .gov employees.)

    If you could get three or four such folks in a room together, they could make impossible stuff happen. They kept a low profile to make sure the political types never found out who they were. 😉

  21. @MikeatMikedotMike
    "Americans want government to do everything"

    And which Americans would those be?

    “And which Americans would those be?”

    The fictitious ones that the pollsters claim to have questioned, probably.

  22. Interesting how Hispanics have the lowest opinion for immigrant loyalty. Will heritage Americans be smart enough to listen to them?

    • Replies: @216
    It's white Boomerlibs that have the highest confidence in assimilation. This is why we get all the pearl clutching whenever someone points out that Omar, Tlaib, Vindman, etc; have no loyalty.

    The Z man has this idea of "The Procedure", as a caricature of conservative usage of "rule of law" and "constitutionalism". But it better applies to Boomerlibs and their predilication for ritual purity.

    Youth and Hispanics report low levels of loyalty, but they don't consider this a bad thing. Youth in the UK are diehard Remainers. I'd suspect a sizeable number of youth and Hispanics in the US would support a "North American Union" if polled.
  23. @Audacious Epigone
    I know what you want me to say, but I'm not going to say it.

    ...

    ...

    ...

    ...

    Fine, I'll say it.

    ...

    ...

    ...

    ...

    Democrats, of course!

    The first set of dots revealed the hook. 🙂

    And the only thing I want from you is unfiltered honesty.

  24. @Charles Pewitt

    The percentage breakdown is private-sector 76 percent, government 16 percent, self-employed 8 percent.

     

    Once more unto the privatization problem:

    How many of the private sector jobs are those that work at private businesses or corporations that are heavily reliant on government funds or contracts for their operations and profits?

    France is said to have over 50 percent of GDP derived from the central government and other government jurisdictions. The internet says the USA has 35 percent of GDP derived from government at all levels. Some CATO guy says 41 percent. I think it is much, much more.

    https://www.cato.org/blog/american-government-spending-41-gdp

    How about the private sector workers building and refurbishing US military submarines and other US military ships on the East Coast and the Gulf Coast?

    If the so-called economy is "booming" according the corporate propaganda apparatus, why can't the privately-controlled Federal Reserve Bank raise the federal funds rate above 3 percent? The answer is that the asset bubbles in stocks, bonds and real estate would immediately implode if the federal funds rate were to got to 4 percent, and that is 2 percent less than the normal fed funds rate of 6 percent.

    If the economy is "booming," why is the yearly federal government deficit a trillion dollars? What would the GDP be without a trillion dollars of federal government spending and other government jurisdictional deficit spending?

    There is no capitalism in the world -- there is only central banker shysterism.

    The internet says the USA has 35 percent of GDP derived from government at all levels. Some CATO guy says 41 percent. I think it is much, much more.

    You’re underestimating the enormous, resilient private sector, both in the real economy and in the financial. Go down the list of Fortune 500 corporations and you’ll find it in those companies’ customers.

    Mobile phones and in-app purchases (entertainment)
    Enterprise software
    Fast-moving consumer goods
    Farming (powered by diesel fuel from oil companies)
    Transportation (ditto)
    Commercial real estate (construction, maintenance and commercial banking)

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes

    You’re underestimating the enormous, resilient private sector, both in the real economy and in the financial. Go down the list of Fortune 500 corporations and you’ll find it in those companies’ customers.

    Mobile phones and in-app purchases (entertainment)
    Enterprise software
    Fast-moving consumer goods
    Farming (powered by diesel fuel from oil companies)
    Transportation (ditto)
    Commercial real estate (construction, maintenance and commercial banking)
     

    Not entirely relevant: some of that's part of the 'genuine' private sector economy; large chunks of important parts of it (enterprise software; agribusiness; large-scale and infrastructure construction) are no less dependent on the government teat than the vermin who get their paychecks directly from the taxes of the genuine private sector . The vermin aren't just the Little Eichmanns of the bureaucracy: it's also the lobbyist-grifters and the Merchants of Death - Raytheon, Academi/Blackwater etc - who get 90% or more of their revenue from government contracts.

    The private sector is resilient, but the mathematics is inexorable , and is something I've banged on about for over a decade.

    When 1 in 5 FTE (full-time-equivalents) is employed by government at 1.2x private sector average wages, it means that ~30% of the total private sector wage bill has to go just to pay bureaucrats.

    That seems inordinately high at first blush: even with progressive income tax rates, not many private sector employees have an average tax rate of 30%. That's why government debt is growing seemingly without bound (and is also - in part - why the federal budget deficit is usually a few hundred billion dollars less than the annual increase in federal debt).

    At the end of the day, it is very silly to take government numbers at face value: their 'enterprise' does not run honest accounts (they don't do accruals for future outlays, for example).

    They don't do GAAP - they do whatever they like, and the people tasked with auditing them simply throw up their hands and whine about it.


    "The U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) cannot render an opinion on the 2012 consolidated financial statements of the federal government because of widespread material internal control weaknesses, significant uncertainties, and other limitations,"

    "As was the case in 2011, the main obstacles to a GAO opinion on the accrual-based consolidated financial statements were: Serious financial management problems at the Department of Defense (DOD) that made its financial statements unauditable. The federal government’s inability to adequately account for and reconcile intragovernmental activity and balances between federal agencies. The federal government’s ineffective process for preparing the consolidated financial statements."
     

    So guess what... by 2018 the GAO simply watered down its own standards.
  25. @EliteCommInc.
    And why I am very suspect of the employment numbers. If i play along then the system is growth. But if I apply some basic rules concerning how and why one wants private sector growth against actual gdp and exports vs imports -- minus the money spent on government, including employment -- then the economy has a very different look.

    (by actual gdp I mean terminal sales not sales to middle sales conduits)


    --------------------------------------------

    "Bribe The White Women Now!"


    Laughing. You do realize that the country has been bribing white women since the mid to late seventies via Affirmative Action to the distribution of 70% plus.

    ---------------------------------------------

    I think that last poll is simply a sign of how ignorant and positive view that citizens have.

    “Bribe The White Women Now!”

    Laughing. You do realize that the country has been bribing white women since the mid to late seventies via Affirmative Action to the distribution of 70% plus.

    We don’t want affirmative action. It might help to offer us something we actually want. Chiefly, we want safe neighborhoods and schools and good jobs. Trump promised these, but didn’t deliver.

    Though, I have to tell you, on behalf of homemakers everywhere, please let’s ditch the low-flow toilets.

  26. @dvorak

    The internet says the USA has 35 percent of GDP derived from government at all levels. Some CATO guy says 41 percent. I think it is much, much more.
     
    You're underestimating the enormous, resilient private sector, both in the real economy and in the financial. Go down the list of Fortune 500 corporations and you'll find it in those companies' customers.

    Mobile phones and in-app purchases (entertainment)
    Enterprise software
    Fast-moving consumer goods
    Farming (powered by diesel fuel from oil companies)
    Transportation (ditto)
    Commercial real estate (construction, maintenance and commercial banking)

    You’re underestimating the enormous, resilient private sector, both in the real economy and in the financial. Go down the list of Fortune 500 corporations and you’ll find it in those companies’ customers.

    Mobile phones and in-app purchases (entertainment)
    Enterprise software
    Fast-moving consumer goods
    Farming (powered by diesel fuel from oil companies)
    Transportation (ditto)
    Commercial real estate (construction, maintenance and commercial banking)

    Not entirely relevant: some of that’s part of the ‘genuine’ private sector economy; large chunks of important parts of it (enterprise software; agribusiness; large-scale and infrastructure construction) are no less dependent on the government teat than the vermin who get their paychecks directly from the taxes of the genuine private sector . The vermin aren’t just the Little Eichmanns of the bureaucracy: it’s also the lobbyist-grifters and the Merchants of Death – Raytheon, Academi/Blackwater etc – who get 90% or more of their revenue from government contracts.

    The private sector is resilient, but the mathematics is inexorable , and is something I’ve banged on about for over a decade.

    When 1 in 5 FTE (full-time-equivalents) is employed by government at 1.2x private sector average wages, it means that ~30% of the total private sector wage bill has to go just to pay bureaucrats.

    That seems inordinately high at first blush: even with progressive income tax rates, not many private sector employees have an average tax rate of 30%. That’s why government debt is growing seemingly without bound (and is also – in part – why the federal budget deficit is usually a few hundred billion dollars less than the annual increase in federal debt).

    At the end of the day, it is very silly to take government numbers at face value: their ‘enterprise’ does not run honest accounts (they don’t do accruals for future outlays, for example).

    They don’t do GAAP – they do whatever they like, and the people tasked with auditing them simply throw up their hands and whine about it.

    “The U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) cannot render an opinion on the 2012 consolidated financial statements of the federal government because of widespread material internal control weaknesses, significant uncertainties, and other limitations,”

    “As was the case in 2011, the main obstacles to a GAO opinion on the accrual-based consolidated financial statements were: Serious financial management problems at the Department of Defense (DOD) that made its financial statements unauditable. The federal government’s inability to adequately account for and reconcile intragovernmental activity and balances between federal agencies. The federal government’s ineffective process for preparing the consolidated financial statements.”

    So guess what… by 2018 the GAO simply watered down its own standards.

  27. @Magic Dirt Resident
    Interesting how Hispanics have the lowest opinion for immigrant loyalty. Will heritage Americans be smart enough to listen to them?

    It’s white Boomerlibs that have the highest confidence in assimilation. This is why we get all the pearl clutching whenever someone points out that Omar, Tlaib, Vindman, etc; have no loyalty.

    The Z man has this idea of “The Procedure”, as a caricature of conservative usage of “rule of law” and “constitutionalism”. But it better applies to Boomerlibs and their predilication for ritual purity.

    Youth and Hispanics report low levels of loyalty, but they don’t consider this a bad thing. Youth in the UK are diehard Remainers. I’d suspect a sizeable number of youth and Hispanics in the US would support a “North American Union” if polled.

  28. Audacious Epigone says: “Why can’t the government be trusted to do what’s right? Because the people who populate it are crooks and liars.“

    This “just” in:

    “Because they are all ultimately funded via both direct and indirect theft [taxes], and counterfeiting [central bank monopolies], all governments are essentially, at their very cores, 100% corrupt criminal scams which cannot be “reformed”or “improved”,simply because of their innate criminal nature.” onebornfree

    “Taking the State wherever found, striking into its history at any point, one sees no way to differentiate the activities of its founders, administrators and beneficiaries from those of a professional-criminal class.” Albert J. Nock

    “Everything government touches turns to crap” Ringo Starr

    “The kind of man who wants the government to adopt and enforce his ideas is always the kind of man whose ideas are idiotic” H.L.Mencken

    “Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure” Robert LeFevere

    Regards,onebornfree

    • Agree: Twodees Partain
  29. A significant share of federal government jobs are just workfare – ride the orange or blue lines of the Metro around 3:30 in the afternoon and it’s blindingly obvious. Or go through airport security, or go to the post office.

    One reason Marion Barry was continously able to get reelected was his “summer jobs program” for the youth. Basically residents up to age 21 could sign up for a guaranteed job each summer, which mostly involved not working at all in exchange for a check every two weeks. He started this in the 80s and it created tens of thousands of loyal voters.

  30. @Achmed E. Newman

    Part of the reason Americans don’t trust the government is because many don’t trust the people the government is waving in.
     
    This is not to take away from your point on the last bar-graph, A.E., but people have had reasons to not trust the US government (at least) for many decades now. Some would say since Lincoln, others ~ 1913, others since FDR, and almost everyone else since the 1970s. The reasons are too numerous to list in this textarea Ron's got here.

    This brings me to another point. What you wrote before graph 3:

    Why can’t the government be trusted to do what’s right? Because the people who populate it are crooks and liars.
     
    AND your point of presenting graph 4, that people in government are incompetent, are not the sole reasons government won't do what's right. I personally can't trust Americans, especially the more Socialist Millennials, to understand this, but I'd still have like to see the questions:

    Should the Federal government be involved in education?
    Should any government be involved in health care?
    Should a government be running your retirement plan?
    Considering the invasions of privacy, the huge amount of money redistributed, the accounting nightmares created for individuals, the perverse incentives created, and the change in the flow of money that gives the Feral Gov't much larger power, was Amendment XVI allowing a Federal income tax a good idea?
    etc, etc, and so on.
     
    Yeah, the latter was a loaded question, but that's how you do polls, right? ;-}

    Yeah, the latter was a loaded question

    The Brushaber decision ruled that the 16th Amendment did not amend or change the U.S. Constitution. The sixteenth amendment conferred no new power of taxation to the “government”.

    The income tax is an excise tax on your corporate privilege to have profit.

    I have a feeling you already knew this.

    • Agree: Twodees Partain
  31. “The average American is a brainwashed boob with too much belly fat.”

    That’s me!

    My issue is that government and by extension politicians are interested in banning straws, GLBT XYZSRWQH outreach etc, but uninterested in filling potholes, plowing, infrastructure maintenance… etc. To quote a prominent Twin Cities columnist and podcaster, they’d rather be important than useful.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    When Democrats won the House in 2018, many people said a silver lining (in their view) would be the prospect of a big infrastructure bill--as though they don't want the focus to stay on banning straws and alphabet outreach.
  32. The median incomes for government workers cited, ‘though higher than private employment, still strike me as chump change (mind you I live in California). This suggests to me that a significant motivation for such employment is a chance to get within sniffing distance of a middle class income. The prospects for that in the private sector have been evaporating for years. You can’t raise a family on the wages most employers offer nowadays unless you have two earners and that is a dagger blow against family life.

  33. I’ve worked a state government job most of my adult life and now am in a middle management position where I have responsibility for recruiting/hiring/etc. While I’m just one person and situations can vary, it’s been my experience that most negative stereotypes about government employees (vs. private) are false.

    First, a lot of times they are the same people at different times in their careers. We hire a lot of people from the private sector, and in terms of how productive they wind up being, they are about the same distribution as those who come straight to work for us: you get some winners and some losers and a lot that are average. We also have some employees that leave for much higher pay in the private sector and it’s the same story; with some of them I feel like the new employer is a sucker for taking dead weight off our hands. A lot of experienced employees will ‘retire’ as well and then go do practically the exact same job in the private sector for a few years; do they suddenly become much more driven and productive because they work for a for-profit giant bureaucracy instead of a government one? Sounds like magic/tragic dirt to me.

    Second, the median salary info is not nothing, but I would prefer to have more information than the median. For my particular specialty we pay tens of thousands below what private sector employees make. We are the fat girl at the school dance when it comes to hiring and have to bargain potential recruits down to what we are actually allowed to pay them. The private median may be lower because private companies have more ‘bargaining power’ with their lowest level employees but that seems like a point in favor of governments. With more in-demand professional degree skills the pay gap is definitely in the opposite direction, though.

    Third, I’ve had the chance to review work for private companies in situations where they were doing contract work for us and, once again, I wasn’t exactly blown away.

    The one stereotype that I have found to have an element of truth is that you do get the occasional useless, lazy, incompetent government employee more often than the private one solely because it is extremely hard to fire a tenured employee. I am actually in favor of making it easier; having to retain useless employees is a terrible waste and doesn’t do anyone any good.

    So to the Derb’s point, getting a government job is a good idea if you’re lazy and incompetent (which I doubt applies to many of his listeners) but it can also be worthwhile if you are smart and motivated as well.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    You're right, those median income figures don't tell the whole story. Those private sector figures include almost all entry-level service work--cashiers, food service workers, lawn care workers, etc.

    Do employees in your environment ever stay late, work at unscheduled or inconvenient times, etc?

    Parenthetically, it's great to hear from you.
  34. “We don’t want affirmative action.”

    Apparently more than 70% of white women are happy to take it and they want more. in fact most white women think affirmative action was made just for them.

    That doesn’t change a thing. Your comment is reflective of the child screaming that she doesn’t want vanilla ice cream as she dives in for her second helping.

    ——————————————————————-

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Apparently more than 70% of white women are happy to take it and they want more.
     
    Misogynist liar.

    https://www.vox.com/2016/5/25/11682950/fisher-supreme-court-white-women-affirmative-action

  35. @EliteCommInc.
    "We don’t want affirmative action."


    Apparently more than 70% of white women are happy to take it and they want more. in fact most white women think affirmative action was made just for them.

    That doesn't change a thing. Your comment is reflective of the child screaming that she doesn't want vanilla ice cream as she dives in for her second helping.


    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Apparently more than 70% of white women are happy to take it and they want more.

    Misogynist liar.

    https://www.vox.com/2016/5/25/11682950/fisher-supreme-court-white-women-affirmative-action

    • Replies: @Truth
    Dang, you just called Mr. Van Driessen the M. Word?

    Rosalina, he is anything but a Mis... I can't even write tha vile word.

    Anyway the Beyotch in you article is a fool:

    A few are accepted through provisional slots that include attending a summer program prior to the fall. One black student, four Latino students, and 42 white students with lower scores than Fisher were accepted under these terms. Also rejected were 168 African-American and Latino students with better scores than Fisher.
  36. “Misogynist liar.”

    I am not sure you read the source. Ut is’s perfect example of what i am talking about. As trhe article states write women are the largest beneficiaries claim they don’t want it however,

    they take it. I don’r see any numbers that white women are rejecting the vanilla ice cream, In fact,

    as they indicated by women’s advocacy they want more

    leave for pregnancy, Title IX, they want men to be held accountable for their drunken choices and women want off the hook for the same, military service, I see women are still avoiding combat arms . . .

    one can dress the new family paid leave initiative or whatever its current monicker but it is designed to provide women a leg up as most programs sponsored, including private industry.

    Your source cite has been used before. I have used it and it supports my position. What I say i want should be reflected in one’s actions.

    I am not a liar and I don’t hate women. I can see some have resorted back to name calling as response. And that is unfortunate but it does not change the dynamic in play.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    You are so tiresome.

    Anyway, here goes:

    they take it. I don’r see any numbers that white women are rejecting the vanilla ice cream, In fact
     
    What is it exactly that you would like them to do. Turn down jobs? A woman doesn't know in any particular case whether she's been the beneficiary of affirmative action or not.

    The fact that the vast majority of women don't want affirmative action is evident from the fact that they avoid precisely those fields wherein it would be most helpful to them. Women continue to apply to medical school and law school where their numbers are surpassing men, not to mention vet school, which is totally female-dominated. Architecture is going the same way.

    For all the promises of a leg up, they still can't get women interested in tech. So there you go.

    one can dress the new family paid leave initiative or whatever its current monicker but it is designed to provide women a leg up as most programs sponsored, including private industry.
     
    This is idiotic. Family leave doesn't give women a leg up. It compensates for the motherhood handicap. Indeed, this is particularly illustrative of the malice so common in manosphere talking points. I wonder if you think getting rid of family leave would help men. Having been there, I can tell you that a wife on maternity leave greatly eases the burden of childbirth and nursing on fathers in the workplace. Because mom doesn't have to go to work, she doesn't have to ask Dad to share in the burden of getting up in the middle of the night, losing sleep and compromising his ability to perform on the job.


    , they want men to be held accountable for their drunken choices and women want off the hook for the same,
     
    When you have sex with a person who is incapacitated and therefore cannot consent, it's rape. Sorry. Of course, if you're drunk, too, then that's another matter.

    I am curious, why aren’t women matching about the failure to prosecute the woman allegedly Mr. Epstien’s partner.
     
    As I have explained before, the organized feminist movement that decides when and about what to March doesn't represent White women. If it did, it wouldn't advocate for affirmative action, which the vast majority of White women oppose as I have demonstrated to you.

    The White working class hates immigration, but labor unions support it anyway. White men don't want immigration, but the Republican party they vote for actively maximizes it in every which way possible.

    I don't care that you don't think you hate women. If you constantly assume the worst, blame us for everything wrong with the world, etc., practically, you hate women. But I like to be reasonable, so I'll tell you what, if you can think of some other word that would be more suitable than "misogynist," I'll take it under advisement.
  37. “Misogynist liar.”

    The list of women I like appreciate and make my toes curl is long and distinguished.

    Laugh.

    For example,

    God save the Queen

    and I am not talking about the one who might be playing Santa at Macy’s.

    I am curious, why aren’t women matching about the failure to prosecute the woman allegedly Mr. Epstien’s partner. Granted, she is attractive and appears to be a kind, sincere, caring women, but if she was a partner with Mr. Epstien, there is o evdence that she has ever been prosecuted.

    • Replies: @Truth

    and appears to be a kind, sincere, caring women,
     
    In what parallel universe is this?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1QNMvzsrFY
  38. Uh oh,

    Just to be clear The Queen does not mat toes curl, lest you accuse me of a desire to ,olest elderly women.

    Laugh.

    Two distinct groups:

    1. women I appreciate i.e. the Queen and my mom

    2. women who make my toes curl: Miss Coulter and Joely Richardson, Tina Turner — Though I understand Miss Richardson considers if offensive to compliment her attractive appearance — go figure. And Miss Turner at 77 has better legs than both

    Laugh. I even appreciate you in spite of yourself.

  39. @EliteCommInc.
    "Misogynist liar."

    I am not sure you read the source. Ut is's perfect example of what i am talking about. As trhe article states write women are the largest beneficiaries claim they don't want it however,


    they take it. I don'r see any numbers that white women are rejecting the vanilla ice cream, In fact,

    as they indicated by women's advocacy they want more

    leave for pregnancy, Title IX, they want men to be held accountable for their drunken choices and women want off the hook for the same, military service, I see women are still avoiding combat arms . . .


    one can dress the new family paid leave initiative or whatever its current monicker but it is designed to provide women a leg up as most programs sponsored, including private industry.


    Your source cite has been used before. I have used it and it supports my position. What I say i want should be reflected in one's actions.


    I am not a liar and I don't hate women. I can see some have resorted back to name calling as response. And that is unfortunate but it does not change the dynamic in play.

    You are so tiresome.

    Anyway, here goes:

    they take it. I don’r see any numbers that white women are rejecting the vanilla ice cream, In fact

    What is it exactly that you would like them to do. Turn down jobs? A woman doesn’t know in any particular case whether she’s been the beneficiary of affirmative action or not.

    The fact that the vast majority of women don’t want affirmative action is evident from the fact that they avoid precisely those fields wherein it would be most helpful to them. Women continue to apply to medical school and law school where their numbers are surpassing men, not to mention vet school, which is totally female-dominated. Architecture is going the same way.

    For all the promises of a leg up, they still can’t get women interested in tech. So there you go.

    one can dress the new family paid leave initiative or whatever its current monicker but it is designed to provide women a leg up as most programs sponsored, including private industry.

    This is idiotic. Family leave doesn’t give women a leg up. It compensates for the motherhood handicap. Indeed, this is particularly illustrative of the malice so common in manosphere talking points. I wonder if you think getting rid of family leave would help men. Having been there, I can tell you that a wife on maternity leave greatly eases the burden of childbirth and nursing on fathers in the workplace. Because mom doesn’t have to go to work, she doesn’t have to ask Dad to share in the burden of getting up in the middle of the night, losing sleep and compromising his ability to perform on the job.

    , they want men to be held accountable for their drunken choices and women want off the hook for the same,

    When you have sex with a person who is incapacitated and therefore cannot consent, it’s rape. Sorry. Of course, if you’re drunk, too, then that’s another matter.

    I am curious, why aren’t women matching about the failure to prosecute the woman allegedly Mr. Epstien’s partner.

    As I have explained before, the organized feminist movement that decides when and about what to March doesn’t represent White women. If it did, it wouldn’t advocate for affirmative action, which the vast majority of White women oppose as I have demonstrated to you.

    The White working class hates immigration, but labor unions support it anyway. White men don’t want immigration, but the Republican party they vote for actively maximizes it in every which way possible.

    I don’t care that you don’t think you hate women. If you constantly assume the worst, blame us for everything wrong with the world, etc., practically, you hate women. But I like to be reasonable, so I’ll tell you what, if you can think of some other word that would be more suitable than “misogynist,” I’ll take it under advisement.

    • Replies: @iffen
    You go, girl!
  40. Laughing.

    You are repeating yourself.

    But to your press. If women don;t want AA all they do is state do not apply said scoring and refuse to apply under any such provisions.
    It works like this,

    when I was a young man, I qualified to be hired in education under an equivelancey based on performance, however I never applied for a full time position under that legal and appropriate standard. I chose to avoid putting myself in a position of having done less than the standard measure a Master’s degree.

    I turned down those jobs and didn’t even apply. And now as a consequence certain people didn’t get it and presumed I had some other motive. We live in a world in which people simple don’t get that others have a standard that they strive to live by. So if in fact, these women don’t want the special treatment, their behavior would reflect as much.

    I don’t see thousands of women hired as police officers, mail carriers, fireman, etc. in which standards were lowered across the board to help women qualify, giving up their posts to reflect. their supposed ethics of not wanting vanilla icecream. There’s an old cliche’ put your money where your mouth is. Fortunately, i can say, on the matter of employment and said standards — I did just that. Doesn’t make me better than anyone, but it makes m consistent in my belief to practice. Granted that is a hard measure. But I am not inclined to take your hopscotch seriously without.

    If someone gibes me something stolen from someone else, i shouldn’t take it. And if I took it and find out it was stolen i should return it. Hmmmm . . . I used to think women were more ethical than men. But I have learned different. You want an exception based on who knows what.

    Either you stand by your position in full or you are merely engaged in gaming rhetorically. It seems given your hyperbolic response (in my view) you should at least admit — that not wanting something and taking it anyway, even if you think its wrong is a contradiction in the supposed code you advance.

    “As I have explained before, the organized feminist movement that decides when and about what to March doesn’t represent White women. If it did, it wouldn’t advocate for affirmative action, which the vast majority of White women oppose as I have demonstrated to you.”

    laughing. Your explanation in light of what actually occurs has little weight. The Meetoo matter absolutely slaps your argument down and squashes it. Plenty of white women on those roles.

    And the only reason whote women are makid this faux call based on the reality is that people like myself have been calling out those AA stats since the mid 1990’s. And with

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    And with advent of the internet are having to face those numbers head on. White women are not having an epiphany, they are having a hypocrisy throne into their laps and some are bocking . . .


    Hardly much in the way of a white women integrity affair. Laughing. As long as I have been here, commenters have been lambasting AA and frankly until I arrived, everyone of them thought AA was "black thing".


    Here's me taking responsibility . . ,

    Miss Turner is 81 not 77.


    "I don’t care that you don’t think you hate women. If you constantly assume the worst, blame us for everything wrong with the world, etc., practically, you hate women. But I like to be reasonable, so I’ll tell you what, if you can think of some other word that would be more suitable than “misogynist,” I’ll take it under advisement."


    If you can demonstrate that i always think the worst of women -- you'll need more than your comment. If you want equality and you hate it when it doesn't support your agenda -- then you don't really want equality. Of you have evidence that I hate women out it forward..

    , @Rosie

    I don’t see thousands of women hired as police officers, mail carriers, fireman, etc. in which standards were lowered across the board to help women qualify, giving up their posts to reflect. their supposed ethics of not wanting vanilla icecream.
     
    This is precisely where you err. The vast majority of women aren't applying to be police officers, are they? They don't want police jobs, with or without special accommodations. If you want to criticize the tiny minority of women going after police jobs, go ahead.

    laughing. Your explanation in light of what actually occurs has little weight. The Meetoo matter absolutely slaps your argument down and squashes it. Plenty of white women on those roles.
     
    Nonsense. There are also plenty of White men pushing immigration, and they are the ones who have the megaphone. (Dissenters don't get to be on TV. ) That doesn't mean they represent the demographic as a whole.

    I guess we can considr the matter closed. laugh.
     
    Actually, no. I'll point out, though it should be obvious, that men are also entitled to family leave. Generally, they don't take it, partly because their wives are willing to do it. Here again, women's willingness to do more than their share at home is used against them by misogynists like you.


    In talking with men and young men mostly about women and they lay some fairly nasty comments. I agree with them.
     
    Yes, you are definitely a misogynist. I don't agree with women who say hateful things about men, even though there is truth in their statements. I tell them to keep looking, because there are plenty of good men and they need to keep looking. If I did otherwise, you would no doubt accuse me of hating men, and you would be correct, of course.
  41. @EliteCommInc.
    Laughing.


    You are repeating yourself.

    But to your press. If women don;t want AA all they do is state do not apply said scoring and refuse to apply under any such provisions.
    It works like this,

    when I was a young man, I qualified to be hired in education under an equivelancey based on performance, however I never applied for a full time position under that legal and appropriate standard. I chose to avoid putting myself in a position of having done less than the standard measure a Master's degree.

    I turned down those jobs and didn't even apply. And now as a consequence certain people didn't get it and presumed I had some other motive. We live in a world in which people simple don't get that others have a standard that they strive to live by. So if in fact, these women don't want the special treatment, their behavior would reflect as much.


    I don't see thousands of women hired as police officers, mail carriers, fireman, etc. in which standards were lowered across the board to help women qualify, giving up their posts to reflect. their supposed ethics of not wanting vanilla icecream. There's an old cliche' put your money where your mouth is. Fortunately, i can say, on the matter of employment and said standards -- I did just that. Doesn't make me better than anyone, but it makes m consistent in my belief to practice. Granted that is a hard measure. But I am not inclined to take your hopscotch seriously without.


    If someone gibes me something stolen from someone else, i shouldn't take it. And if I took it and find out it was stolen i should return it. Hmmmm . . . I used to think women were more ethical than men. But I have learned different. You want an exception based on who knows what.

    Either you stand by your position in full or you are merely engaged in gaming rhetorically. It seems given your hyperbolic response (in my view) you should at least admit -- that not wanting something and taking it anyway, even if you think its wrong is a contradiction in the supposed code you advance.


    "As I have explained before, the organized feminist movement that decides when and about what to March doesn’t represent White women. If it did, it wouldn’t advocate for affirmative action, which the vast majority of White women oppose as I have demonstrated to you."

    laughing. Your explanation in light of what actually occurs has little weight. The Meetoo matter absolutely slaps your argument down and squashes it. Plenty of white women on those roles.


    And the only reason whote women are makid this faux call based on the reality is that people like myself have been calling out those AA stats since the mid 1990's. And with

    And with advent of the internet are having to face those numbers head on. White women are not having an epiphany, they are having a hypocrisy throne into their laps and some are bocking . . .

    Hardly much in the way of a white women integrity affair. Laughing. As long as I have been here, commenters have been lambasting AA and frankly until I arrived, everyone of them thought AA was “black thing”.

    Here’s me taking responsibility . . ,

    Miss Turner is 81 not 77.

    “I don’t care that you don’t think you hate women. If you constantly assume the worst, blame us for everything wrong with the world, etc., practically, you hate women. But I like to be reasonable, so I’ll tell you what, if you can think of some other word that would be more suitable than “misogynist,” I’ll take it under advisement.”

    If you can demonstrate that i always think the worst of women — you’ll need more than your comment. If you want equality and you hate it when it doesn’t support your agenda — then you don’t really want equality. Of you have evidence that I hate women out it forward..

  42. “This is idiotic. Family leave doesn’t give women a leg up. It compensates for the motherhood handicap.”

    I guess we can considr the matter closed. laugh.

    There’s one commentary that oif taken out of context could be used to make a suggestion I hate women. In talking with men and young men mostly about women and they lay some fairly nasty comments. I agree with them. Because sometimes, some women are all of those things. But that’s not hate. That’s acknowledging that women can engage in some vert nefarious activities and tactics against men. But I also make it clear that in the ebb and flow of male female comunications and relations there is a give and take . And that men’s “foibles” are also accommodate by women.

    If one ignores the second portion and manipulates the context by only focusing on the acknowledge of debilitative traits — one could distort a case that i hate women — but certainly would do no such thing.

    Now i have to go insure my housemates lights are protected from m oisture so they don’t short. Sure,

    I don’t hate women.

    Laugh.

    “I am more of a hate stylist, if you will.”

    Punchline Steve Gould (Tom Hanks)

  43. @Rosie
    You are so tiresome.

    Anyway, here goes:

    they take it. I don’r see any numbers that white women are rejecting the vanilla ice cream, In fact
     
    What is it exactly that you would like them to do. Turn down jobs? A woman doesn't know in any particular case whether she's been the beneficiary of affirmative action or not.

    The fact that the vast majority of women don't want affirmative action is evident from the fact that they avoid precisely those fields wherein it would be most helpful to them. Women continue to apply to medical school and law school where their numbers are surpassing men, not to mention vet school, which is totally female-dominated. Architecture is going the same way.

    For all the promises of a leg up, they still can't get women interested in tech. So there you go.

    one can dress the new family paid leave initiative or whatever its current monicker but it is designed to provide women a leg up as most programs sponsored, including private industry.
     
    This is idiotic. Family leave doesn't give women a leg up. It compensates for the motherhood handicap. Indeed, this is particularly illustrative of the malice so common in manosphere talking points. I wonder if you think getting rid of family leave would help men. Having been there, I can tell you that a wife on maternity leave greatly eases the burden of childbirth and nursing on fathers in the workplace. Because mom doesn't have to go to work, she doesn't have to ask Dad to share in the burden of getting up in the middle of the night, losing sleep and compromising his ability to perform on the job.


    , they want men to be held accountable for their drunken choices and women want off the hook for the same,
     
    When you have sex with a person who is incapacitated and therefore cannot consent, it's rape. Sorry. Of course, if you're drunk, too, then that's another matter.

    I am curious, why aren’t women matching about the failure to prosecute the woman allegedly Mr. Epstien’s partner.
     
    As I have explained before, the organized feminist movement that decides when and about what to March doesn't represent White women. If it did, it wouldn't advocate for affirmative action, which the vast majority of White women oppose as I have demonstrated to you.

    The White working class hates immigration, but labor unions support it anyway. White men don't want immigration, but the Republican party they vote for actively maximizes it in every which way possible.

    I don't care that you don't think you hate women. If you constantly assume the worst, blame us for everything wrong with the world, etc., practically, you hate women. But I like to be reasonable, so I'll tell you what, if you can think of some other word that would be more suitable than "misogynist," I'll take it under advisement.

    You go, girl!

    • Replies: @Truth
    I believe the proper nomenclature is "Gurrrl."
  44. @EliteCommInc.
    Laughing.


    You are repeating yourself.

    But to your press. If women don;t want AA all they do is state do not apply said scoring and refuse to apply under any such provisions.
    It works like this,

    when I was a young man, I qualified to be hired in education under an equivelancey based on performance, however I never applied for a full time position under that legal and appropriate standard. I chose to avoid putting myself in a position of having done less than the standard measure a Master's degree.

    I turned down those jobs and didn't even apply. And now as a consequence certain people didn't get it and presumed I had some other motive. We live in a world in which people simple don't get that others have a standard that they strive to live by. So if in fact, these women don't want the special treatment, their behavior would reflect as much.


    I don't see thousands of women hired as police officers, mail carriers, fireman, etc. in which standards were lowered across the board to help women qualify, giving up their posts to reflect. their supposed ethics of not wanting vanilla icecream. There's an old cliche' put your money where your mouth is. Fortunately, i can say, on the matter of employment and said standards -- I did just that. Doesn't make me better than anyone, but it makes m consistent in my belief to practice. Granted that is a hard measure. But I am not inclined to take your hopscotch seriously without.


    If someone gibes me something stolen from someone else, i shouldn't take it. And if I took it and find out it was stolen i should return it. Hmmmm . . . I used to think women were more ethical than men. But I have learned different. You want an exception based on who knows what.

    Either you stand by your position in full or you are merely engaged in gaming rhetorically. It seems given your hyperbolic response (in my view) you should at least admit -- that not wanting something and taking it anyway, even if you think its wrong is a contradiction in the supposed code you advance.


    "As I have explained before, the organized feminist movement that decides when and about what to March doesn’t represent White women. If it did, it wouldn’t advocate for affirmative action, which the vast majority of White women oppose as I have demonstrated to you."

    laughing. Your explanation in light of what actually occurs has little weight. The Meetoo matter absolutely slaps your argument down and squashes it. Plenty of white women on those roles.


    And the only reason whote women are makid this faux call based on the reality is that people like myself have been calling out those AA stats since the mid 1990's. And with

    I don’t see thousands of women hired as police officers, mail carriers, fireman, etc. in which standards were lowered across the board to help women qualify, giving up their posts to reflect. their supposed ethics of not wanting vanilla icecream.

    This is precisely where you err. The vast majority of women aren’t applying to be police officers, are they? They don’t want police jobs, with or without special accommodations. If you want to criticize the tiny minority of women going after police jobs, go ahead.

    laughing. Your explanation in light of what actually occurs has little weight. The Meetoo matter absolutely slaps your argument down and squashes it. Plenty of white women on those roles.

    Nonsense. There are also plenty of White men pushing immigration, and they are the ones who have the megaphone. (Dissenters don’t get to be on TV. ) That doesn’t mean they represent the demographic as a whole.

    I guess we can considr the matter closed. laugh.

    Actually, no. I’ll point out, though it should be obvious, that men are also entitled to family leave. Generally, they don’t take it, partly because their wives are willing to do it. Here again, women’s willingness to do more than their share at home is used against them by misogynists like you.

    In talking with men and young men mostly about women and they lay some fairly nasty comments. I agree with them.

    Yes, you are definitely a misogynist. I don’t agree with women who say hateful things about men, even though there is truth in their statements. I tell them to keep looking, because there are plenty of good men and they need to keep looking. If I did otherwise, you would no doubt accuse me of hating men, and you would be correct, of course.

  45. @Rosie

    Apparently more than 70% of white women are happy to take it and they want more.
     
    Misogynist liar.

    https://www.vox.com/2016/5/25/11682950/fisher-supreme-court-white-women-affirmative-action

    Dang, you just called Mr. Van Driessen the M. Word?

    Rosalina, he is anything but a Mis… I can’t even write tha vile word.

    Anyway the Beyotch in you article is a fool:

    A few are accepted through provisional slots that include attending a summer program prior to the fall. One black student, four Latino students, and 42 white students with lower scores than Fisher were accepted under these terms. Also rejected were 168 African-American and Latino students with better scores than Fisher.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    A few are accepted through provisional slots that include attending a summer program prior to the fall. One black student, four Latino students, and 42 white students with lower scores than Fisher were accepted under these terms. Also rejected were 168 African-American and Latino students with better scores than Fisher.
     
    I have no opinion on the merits of the case. My point was merely that affirmative action polls terribly with White women.

    And yes, he is definitely a misogynist.
  46. @EliteCommInc.
    "Misogynist liar."


    The list of women I like appreciate and make my toes curl is long and distinguished.

    Laugh.


    For example,


    God save the Queen

    and I am not talking about the one who might be playing Santa at Macy's.

    I am curious, why aren't women matching about the failure to prosecute the woman allegedly Mr. Epstien's partner. Granted, she is attractive and appears to be a kind, sincere, caring women, but if she was a partner with Mr. Epstien, there is o evdence that she has ever been prosecuted.

    and appears to be a kind, sincere, caring women,

    In what parallel universe is this?

  47. @iffen
    You go, girl!

    I believe the proper nomenclature is “Gurrrl.”

    • Replies: @iffen
    I believe the proper nomenclature is “Gurrrl.”

    When "we" do cultural appropriation, we frequently tidy up.

  48. I appreciate the dance, nut you don’t get to change your tune.

    response

    1. one could argue that most women weren’t applying for jobs therefore X. But we are not talking what most women were doing. We are talking about those women who were applied for jobs that used A A policies obtained them as a result of the same.

    That those women are the women we are discussing. Of that group of women those by way of examples I provided took those positions in which standards were lowered for their qualification. And the same would accurate for the positions that were not used examples in which those women by other occupations accepted AA action posts. And women from both left and right were glad to accept the same. And in direct opposition to the current claim being made in the last two years — they advocated for AA and even contended that AA was created for them.

    The articles all two of them in which white women are purportedly claiming they don’t special treatment is not supported by their behavior regardless of the occupation or training uses said AA on their behalf. Taking something you you claim you don’t want is really a matter of choice. Your advocacy is that women ought to be treated as though they have no agency. And I disagree. And your own run away from the examples makes the point. Your premise is that white women don’t want said programs.

    2. Up to this moment u have been generous, but you are citing an article whose only data set are the individual examples of about seven women. That you think seven women, unless I missed it represent the views of most white women — than you simply don’t get what’s required. I don’t reject individual examples, but as you have insisted — the article not only makes my point it undermines you further when it introduces legacy programs which as a means for whites have gamed the system to the the benefit of white women. On the one hand the system denied entry to blacks and then gave whites in the system a benefit via legacy programs an insiders AA policy on top of that which helped women. As I stated, you might want to actually read the article as it contradicts you on several levels.

    3. It’s very convenient to decry AA now that women, especially white women have jumped the programs and benefitted massively and once entrenched as they are — say

    “Naw, we don’t need it.” Laughing “But we’ll take it.”

    I am dubious that the women mentioned in the article come a hair’s breath of what most women think, especially women applying for jobs. It’s niche; clique to assuage the reality that not only do white women want said programs, they are happy with more avenues. White are not filing suit to remove their legacy programs. Title IX and other such programs are still in play and more on the march for more. Let me know when women qualify for draft legislation.

    4. Uhh, whether I criticize them or not is not really relevant. The fact is those women who apply for firefighting, police, mail carriers, have neither complained about further action, nor have they advocated that they should be tested or subject to the same standards as men — period. And by the way the same holds true for white women and AA in other occupations. Well, maybe not the five or seven in the article. Good grief.

    5. Ah, the Mexican two step. MeeToo is a fairly exclusive white woman’s gig. Why you are jumping to immigration is beyond me. The only link is that millions of white women are in support of both. It’s unfortunate that anyone supports undermining US citizens by way of immigrating foreigners. But my position as MeeToo remains, white women demanding that men cater to their emotional and social desire to be protected.

    6. Just when i thought there might be some glimmer of integrity in your press — the inevitable previously noted turn that the leave act is for men and women — I take you preferred the clothes of the shallow as opposed to where this advocacy came from.

    Say it ain’t so, say it ain’t so women pressing to be home with the children instead of dad — I think they should be flipping a coin. Laugh.

    It’s clear you have no idea what I believe regarding family or the powerful role of that womanhood plays in human development — as a single male, I am more pro family than most people with families. I could be exaggerating – laugh. But nothing in my comments suggests that I harbor any animosity for any woman who opts to do the management tasks required to operate a successful home life — no sale.

    7. You chose to take the low road I described by editing my comments to incorrectly portray my position. You lapped up the milk and ignored the meat. I was hoping you would choose the latter as it would indicate that you are contending from level of sincere motive. But as indicated your are of that ilk that seeks power regardless of data contradicts you as indicated throughout. That is disappointing. But be that as it may.

    Nothing you have have danced supports you here, not even that strange Mexican two step in midst of your awkward waltz. At the end of the day the reasoning here is simple.

    Women take affirmative jobs.
    White women take affirmative jobs (aside from the five or seven in the article
    Women want AA and more as indicated by the examples, including the late dressed “family leave” dip you make.

    Nothing stops white women from not applying under the AA protocols and refusing jobs that they are offered as consequence.

    And there is no evidence that I am a misogynist. I have a lot of faults no doubt. But there is no evidence that I hate women or am about seeking them ill will. Now, I am not as chilvarous as I once was. And which ethos I think women have bandied to their advantage on top of everything else. I have my issues as men do with women. I have learned that they lie, cheat, steal, avoid accountability, will engage in as much filth as men and advocate the same, that some are devoid of conscience, empathy, and sense of prudence, and will say anything to get their way — how else does a society exist in which women are the front runners in support of murdering children in the womb.

    Your complaint is simply a side trip to the overwhelming truth — white women are the bid winners in the AA game plan. And aside from the seven or so women in the article — ohh and an article I read written by a woman who says she does’t approve of said policies in the grants she is applying for — but I am certain she would gladly accept if offered — so that’s maybe eight women.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    3. It’s very convenient to decry AA now that women, especially white women have jumped the programs and benefitted massively and once entrenched as they are — say
     
    This is precisely what I mean about assuming the worst about women.

    Has it ever occurred to you that women might sincerely have once believed that affirmative action was necessary to correct a real injustice, but now no longer is?

    Of course it has, but you simply refuse to give women the benefit of the doubt about anything, like all misogynists.
  49. @Truth
    I believe the proper nomenclature is "Gurrrl."

    I believe the proper nomenclature is “Gurrrl.”

    When “we” do cultural appropriation, we frequently tidy up.

  50. @Truth
    Dang, you just called Mr. Van Driessen the M. Word?

    Rosalina, he is anything but a Mis... I can't even write tha vile word.

    Anyway the Beyotch in you article is a fool:

    A few are accepted through provisional slots that include attending a summer program prior to the fall. One black student, four Latino students, and 42 white students with lower scores than Fisher were accepted under these terms. Also rejected were 168 African-American and Latino students with better scores than Fisher.

    A few are accepted through provisional slots that include attending a summer program prior to the fall. One black student, four Latino students, and 42 white students with lower scores than Fisher were accepted under these terms. Also rejected were 168 African-American and Latino students with better scores than Fisher.

    I have no opinion on the merits of the case. My point was merely that affirmative action polls terribly with White women.

    And yes, he is definitely a misogynist.

  51. @EliteCommInc.
    I appreciate the dance, nut you don't get to change your tune.


    response

    1. one could argue that most women weren't applying for jobs therefore X. But we are not talking what most women were doing. We are talking about those women who were applied for jobs that used A A policies obtained them as a result of the same.

    That those women are the women we are discussing. Of that group of women those by way of examples I provided took those positions in which standards were lowered for their qualification. And the same would accurate for the positions that were not used examples in which those women by other occupations accepted AA action posts. And women from both left and right were glad to accept the same. And in direct opposition to the current claim being made in the last two years -- they advocated for AA and even contended that AA was created for them.

    The articles all two of them in which white women are purportedly claiming they don't special treatment is not supported by their behavior regardless of the occupation or training uses said AA on their behalf. Taking something you you claim you don't want is really a matter of choice. Your advocacy is that women ought to be treated as though they have no agency. And I disagree. And your own run away from the examples makes the point. Your premise is that white women don't want said programs.

    2. Up to this moment u have been generous, but you are citing an article whose only data set are the individual examples of about seven women. That you think seven women, unless I missed it represent the views of most white women -- than you simply don't get what's required. I don't reject individual examples, but as you have insisted -- the article not only makes my point it undermines you further when it introduces legacy programs which as a means for whites have gamed the system to the the benefit of white women. On the one hand the system denied entry to blacks and then gave whites in the system a benefit via legacy programs an insiders AA policy on top of that which helped women. As I stated, you might want to actually read the article as it contradicts you on several levels.

    3. It's very convenient to decry AA now that women, especially white women have jumped the programs and benefitted massively and once entrenched as they are -- say

    "Naw, we don't need it." Laughing "But we'll take it."

    I am dubious that the women mentioned in the article come a hair's breath of what most women think, especially women applying for jobs. It's niche; clique to assuage the reality that not only do white women want said programs, they are happy with more avenues. White are not filing suit to remove their legacy programs. Title IX and other such programs are still in play and more on the march for more. Let me know when women qualify for draft legislation.

    4. Uhh, whether I criticize them or not is not really relevant. The fact is those women who apply for firefighting, police, mail carriers, have neither complained about further action, nor have they advocated that they should be tested or subject to the same standards as men -- period. And by the way the same holds true for white women and AA in other occupations. Well, maybe not the five or seven in the article. Good grief.

    5. Ah, the Mexican two step. MeeToo is a fairly exclusive white woman's gig. Why you are jumping to immigration is beyond me. The only link is that millions of white women are in support of both. It's unfortunate that anyone supports undermining US citizens by way of immigrating foreigners. But my position as MeeToo remains, white women demanding that men cater to their emotional and social desire to be protected.

    6. Just when i thought there might be some glimmer of integrity in your press -- the inevitable previously noted turn that the leave act is for men and women -- I take you preferred the clothes of the shallow as opposed to where this advocacy came from.

    Say it ain't so, say it ain't so women pressing to be home with the children instead of dad -- I think they should be flipping a coin. Laugh.

    It's clear you have no idea what I believe regarding family or the powerful role of that womanhood plays in human development -- as a single male, I am more pro family than most people with families. I could be exaggerating - laugh. But nothing in my comments suggests that I harbor any animosity for any woman who opts to do the management tasks required to operate a successful home life -- no sale.

    7. You chose to take the low road I described by editing my comments to incorrectly portray my position. You lapped up the milk and ignored the meat. I was hoping you would choose the latter as it would indicate that you are contending from level of sincere motive. But as indicated your are of that ilk that seeks power regardless of data contradicts you as indicated throughout. That is disappointing. But be that as it may.

    Nothing you have have danced supports you here, not even that strange Mexican two step in midst of your awkward waltz. At the end of the day the reasoning here is simple.

    Women take affirmative jobs.
    White women take affirmative jobs (aside from the five or seven in the article
    Women want AA and more as indicated by the examples, including the late dressed "family leave" dip you make.

    Nothing stops white women from not applying under the AA protocols and refusing jobs that they are offered as consequence.

    And there is no evidence that I am a misogynist. I have a lot of faults no doubt. But there is no evidence that I hate women or am about seeking them ill will. Now, I am not as chilvarous as I once was. And which ethos I think women have bandied to their advantage on top of everything else. I have my issues as men do with women. I have learned that they lie, cheat, steal, avoid accountability, will engage in as much filth as men and advocate the same, that some are devoid of conscience, empathy, and sense of prudence, and will say anything to get their way -- how else does a society exist in which women are the front runners in support of murdering children in the womb.

    Your complaint is simply a side trip to the overwhelming truth -- white women are the bid winners in the AA game plan. And aside from the seven or so women in the article -- ohh and an article I read written by a woman who says she does't approve of said policies in the grants she is applying for -- but I am certain she would gladly accept if offered -- so that's maybe eight women.

    3. It’s very convenient to decry AA now that women, especially white women have jumped the programs and benefitted massively and once entrenched as they are — say

    This is precisely what I mean about assuming the worst about women.

    Has it ever occurred to you that women might sincerely have once believed that affirmative action was necessary to correct a real injustice, but now no longer is?

    Of course it has, but you simply refuse to give women the benefit of the doubt about anything, like all misogynists.

  52. “Has it ever occurred to you that women might sincerely have once believed that affirmative action was necessary to correct a real injustice, but now no longer is?”

    Laughing.

    No. I think it is entirely possible that eight women sincerely believe what you contend. And that would still be convenient. Let me know when they start protesting against Title IX, draft registration, stop applying for jobs under AA protocols, reject said grants etc. Or simply give up the jobs they obtained via the same.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Let me know when they start protesting against Title IX, draft registration, stop applying for jobs under AA protocols, reject said grants etc. Or simply give up the jobs they obtained via the same.
     
    Meanwhile, here in the real world, people have to make a living. Back when women didn't have to work to make ends meet, here's what they were doing.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/17/1d/71/171d71ae19054dea3d73bf1831d9ec22.jpg
  53. “In what parallel universe is this?”

    As I stated

    “appears”

    The point is that she has not been charged in any of these issues. whether or not this young woman’s account is accurate is yet to be demonstrated.

    And I am not saying she should be, but one would think in the interest of fair play if these accusations are accurate . . .

  54. @EliteCommInc.
    "Has it ever occurred to you that women might sincerely have once believed that affirmative action was necessary to correct a real injustice, but now no longer is?"

    Laughing.

    No. I think it is entirely possible that eight women sincerely believe what you contend. And that would still be convenient. Let me know when they start protesting against Title IX, draft registration, stop applying for jobs under AA protocols, reject said grants etc. Or simply give up the jobs they obtained via the same.

    Let me know when they start protesting against Title IX, draft registration, stop applying for jobs under AA protocols, reject said grants etc. Or simply give up the jobs they obtained via the same.

    Meanwhile, here in the real world, people have to make a living. Back when women didn’t have to work to make ends meet, here’s what they were doing.

  55. @EliteCommInc.
    Petty

    Laughing.



    That's Mrs Phyllis Schafley

    http://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&id=4AA9AEDF2F01EE64F44810B3E62AB0235DF28677&thid=OIP.R94SUz32peIpK-oKG2Or7QAAAA&exph=276&expw=400&q=phyllis+schafley&selectedindex=237&ajaxhist=0&vt=0&eim=0,1,2,3,4,6,8,10&ccid=R94SUz32&simid=608042930353800364&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.conservapedia.com%2Fimages%2Fthumb%2F6%2F69%2FPhyllis_Schlafly_at_rally.jpg%2F400px-Phyllis_Schlafly_at_rally.jpg&sim=11

    By petty I am referring to myself being persnicketty about Mrs Shcafley being married.

  56. @Ganderson
    “The average American is a brainwashed boob with too much belly fat.”

    That’s me!

    My issue is that government and by extension politicians are interested in banning straws, GLBT XYZSRWQH outreach etc, but uninterested in filling potholes, plowing, infrastructure maintenance... etc. To quote a prominent Twin Cities columnist and podcaster, they’d rather be important than useful.

    When Democrats won the House in 2018, many people said a silver lining (in their view) would be the prospect of a big infrastructure bill–as though they don’t want the focus to stay on banning straws and alphabet outreach.

  57. @Jokah Macpherson
    I've worked a state government job most of my adult life and now am in a middle management position where I have responsibility for recruiting/hiring/etc. While I'm just one person and situations can vary, it's been my experience that most negative stereotypes about government employees (vs. private) are false.

    First, a lot of times they are the same people at different times in their careers. We hire a lot of people from the private sector, and in terms of how productive they wind up being, they are about the same distribution as those who come straight to work for us: you get some winners and some losers and a lot that are average. We also have some employees that leave for much higher pay in the private sector and it's the same story; with some of them I feel like the new employer is a sucker for taking dead weight off our hands. A lot of experienced employees will 'retire' as well and then go do practically the exact same job in the private sector for a few years; do they suddenly become much more driven and productive because they work for a for-profit giant bureaucracy instead of a government one? Sounds like magic/tragic dirt to me.

    Second, the median salary info is not nothing, but I would prefer to have more information than the median. For my particular specialty we pay tens of thousands below what private sector employees make. We are the fat girl at the school dance when it comes to hiring and have to bargain potential recruits down to what we are actually allowed to pay them. The private median may be lower because private companies have more 'bargaining power' with their lowest level employees but that seems like a point in favor of governments. With more in-demand professional degree skills the pay gap is definitely in the opposite direction, though.

    Third, I've had the chance to review work for private companies in situations where they were doing contract work for us and, once again, I wasn't exactly blown away.

    The one stereotype that I have found to have an element of truth is that you do get the occasional useless, lazy, incompetent government employee more often than the private one solely because it is extremely hard to fire a tenured employee. I am actually in favor of making it easier; having to retain useless employees is a terrible waste and doesn't do anyone any good.

    So to the Derb's point, getting a government job is a good idea if you're lazy and incompetent (which I doubt applies to many of his listeners) but it can also be worthwhile if you are smart and motivated as well.

    You’re right, those median income figures don’t tell the whole story. Those private sector figures include almost all entry-level service work–cashiers, food service workers, lawn care workers, etc.

    Do employees in your environment ever stay late, work at unscheduled or inconvenient times, etc?

    Parenthetically, it’s great to hear from you.

  58. Above is a clash between a black MRA and a feminist Hitler fangirl. Bizarre corners of the internet indeed.

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