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Libertarians are fond of pointing out that what would’ve been beyond the material dreams of the most powerful nobles in medieval Europe are taken for granted by minimum wage menial workers today–the power of hundreds of horses, not merely heated floors but heated everything, fruit out of season, etc. To lament contemporary material want is thus perceived as a kind of existential ingratitude.

Come the sexbot revolution, will the same be said about those at the bottom of the sexual market hierarchy? You have your MonRoebot and you’re complaining? Henry VIII couldn’t have hoped for what’s at your beck and call, and if you cut her head off, no one cares. We used to boink pillows, you know!

 
• Category: Culture/Society • Tags: Conjecture 
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  1. It’s possible the Japanese will discover the effects first. They already have…pillows.

  2. To lament contemporary material want is thus perceived as a kind of existential ingratitude.

    A lot of contemporary material want is for quality, not just quantity, in this age of Cheap China-made Crap. That’s what all the granite countertops, hardwood floors, and architectural shingles are about, along with phenomena like the Foodies, $50,000 weddings for chicks that don’t look like any kind of Queen from any of my history books, and vacations to Europe for everyone.

    People at all levels of society now want the high quality that those Kings and Queens had, even though the science and engineering didn’t allow them anything like we have now in comfort.

    In America today, people are trying to have that quality, but they really are not able to pay for it anymore. In the last 25 years, with wealth creation transferring from America to China, but especially since the ’08 crash, Americans have been trying to live this life of Riley using credit cards, 7-year car loans, and mortgage-sized student loans. And that’s just the people – the US Government is at a whole ‘nother level of debt stupidity.

    That was kind of orthogonal to the subject of the post, but no, I have no reason to complain about any sexbot as an individual, but if they became viable (not aware, I don’t want aware), society as a whole will be fast approaching the End Times, as revealed in Revelation. BTW, the Chinese have a big head-start on that with their Mark ‘o the Beast push to a Social Credit/Cashless society.

    • Agree: Liza
    • Replies: @dfordoom

    In America today, people are trying to have that quality, but they really are not able to pay for it anymore. In the last 25 years, with wealth creation transferring from America to China, but especially since the ’08 crash, Americans have been trying to live this life of Riley using credit cards, 7-year car loans, and mortgage-sized student loans.
     
    We've forgotten how to be content with enough. It's not enough to own a car that runs, it has to be a new car. It's not enough to own a perfectly serviceable and very comfortable sofa, it has to be a brand new sofa. It's not enough to be able to buy a new dress, it has to be a designer label dress. It's not enough to own a set of golf clubs, you have to own a fancy shiny very expensive set of golf clubs.

    These things are not seen as the necessities of life. They're seen as ways to signal success. In our society there is only one measure of success - money. So we need to be able to buy things that demonstrate that we have money.

    And we'd rather have a new car bought on credit than a reliable older car that we own outright. If you have a new car it doesn't matter how much debt you had to go into to get it it's still a signal of success, whereas the guy with a slightly beat-up older model that still runs perfectly and that he doesn't owe a cent on is an obvious loser.

    It's a reflection of the fact that consuming things is pretty much our entire social purpose. So we have to be more extravagant consumers than other people to feel like we're worth anything.
  3. “Don’t ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next product”

    It’s all relative really since the increased supply of goods, such as fresh fruit, drives down personal demand for them because they’re so common and therefore ‘boring’. Smartphones also do the same thing in that they provide a lot of functions instantaneously which removes your application of effort to an action that may make it seem more rewarding. You can google anything you want instantly, but lots of little thoughts just peter out. Whereas in the past an important thought may have stayed with you until you could visit a library or source reading on it. The pay off for diligent work provides better satsifaction. Even within the modern context this is clear, beating a game like Dark Souls, which is harder than the average game, provides better feelings than turning a game to easy and completing it in a few hours.

  4. The only reason that modern people have access to these inventions, a lot of which suck in various ways, is oil. When the oil is gone, back to hovel serfdom you go.

    • Replies: @Kim
    The great truth that no one will face. I always laugh at speculations about the state of the usa/world in, for example, forty years from now. AI will take all the jobs. Green energy will fuel the world. China will be the global hegemony. Whites will be below 40% of the US population. And so on.

    All such discussions are ignorant of the elephant in the room: that the cheap oil that underwrites modern tech, global hegemony, and ever-expanding populations consuming ever more crap is already gone. That ended somewhere around 1970 and we have been staggering from stop gap to stop gap ever since.

    There has been no increase in global production of conventional oil for at least ten years. The cheap oil is gone. And so is the future of modernity. We are now into a state of permanent decline.

    , @nokangaroos
    Pollyanna :D

    When three quarters of the world realize the Green Revolution has been cancelled and the rest that they can no longer consume, serfdom will be the very last of our worries.
    Literally :P
  5. Oh the joys of modern “civilization” where one can fuck an oversized Kewpie doll. Be still my fleeting heart. I’m sure ol’ Henry’s spinning in his grave with jealousy. I mean all he had was the real thang.

  6. @obwandiyag
    The only reason that modern people have access to these inventions, a lot of which suck in various ways, is oil. When the oil is gone, back to hovel serfdom you go.

    The great truth that no one will face. I always laugh at speculations about the state of the usa/world in, for example, forty years from now. AI will take all the jobs. Green energy will fuel the world. China will be the global hegemony. Whites will be below 40% of the US population. And so on.

    All such discussions are ignorant of the elephant in the room: that the cheap oil that underwrites modern tech, global hegemony, and ever-expanding populations consuming ever more crap is already gone. That ended somewhere around 1970 and we have been staggering from stop gap to stop gap ever since.

    There has been no increase in global production of conventional oil for at least ten years. The cheap oil is gone. And so is the future of modernity. We are now into a state of permanent decline.

  7. That clip shows why Futurama is a better show than The Simpsons. The producers had to use their imaginations, rather than rely on crude ethnic stereotypes.

    • Replies: @Athletic and Whitesplosive
    Except that the early Simpsons were unambiguously much funnier than Futurama (though the first 3ish seasons of it weee pretty good too). If anything the Simpson's writers had greater constraints, they couldn't play off of all the well-known sci-fi tropes.

    And imagine getting so butthurt at "thank you, come again!" that you think the Simpsons relied on ethnic comedy. There's maybe one stereotype that appeared with regularity in Apu (and an obviously true stereotype, which just about everyone knows an example of, which is why it resonated). Maybe 1/100 jokes were playing on ethnic stereotypes, and that's being generous. And the only one which was really negative was Cletus the hillbilly, they knew who the soft targets that they wouldn't get in trouble for were.
  8. The greatest luxury that nobles of old had was time. Time they could apply to social and sexual pursuits. The modern prole may have a big car and heated floors but he has no status in society nor a lot of social life and barely has time to watch Netflix or Pornflix after hours. Sex robots are just more of the same, hypnotic devices to quiet the rabble. Be certain that the elites will disregard sex robots and continue to pimp and have sex with real teens, probably the proles’ daughters (and sons, for those into it).

    • Agree: Hemid
  9. Libertarians are fond of pointing out that what would’ve been beyond the material dreams of the most powerful nobles in medieval Europe are taken for granted by minimum wage menial workers today

    This is right. We have much higher standard of living than medieval people, and we should appreciate it, and be thankful for our good fortune.

    We also have much more freedom than people in middle ages could ever imagine. Do the libertarians ever appreciate it? No. There are no bigger whiners in the world than libertarians.

    Libertarians should be grateful that they are not slaves or serfs, but they keep squealing all the time they have to pay taxes and cannot buy machine guns, crack cocaine and child porn in Walmart.

    • Agree: Liza
    • Replies: @Realist

    This is right. We have much higher standard of living than medieval people, and we should appreciate it, and be thankful for our good fortune.
     
    Good fortune had nothing to do with it...inventiveness, industriousness and intelligence of White people did.
    , @John Regan
    We are better off than in the Middle Ages, but are we truly better off than, say, our grandfathers or great-grandfathers? Materially speaking, without doubt. Yet human beings don't depend on food alone for happiness, and people today have plenty of very valid reasons to be unhappy. We may note among other things the incel phenomenon, the drug epidemic, the disgusting degeneracy of the media. Or we may note subtler things, less in our face because they are things felt by their absence rather than their obnoxious presence, but probably more profound.

    For example, most of our ancestors lived in communities where people, by and large, trusted each other. In some isolated corners, this is still possible: small towns where you can leave the door unlocked, the car unlocked with the keys in when you go shopping, and where you can ask your neighbor to come over and water your plants if you're off on a trip. This will sound like a fairy tale to some, but such places still exist, if few and far between.

    However, this sort of high-trust community is now completely beyond the vast majority of our population. How many of us today have neighbors we can trust? How many of us even know our neighbors' names? In many cases, we may count ourselves fortunate if they speak our language.

    That is just one thing which is not measured in GDP, but which impacts human happiness very profoundly. The loneliness and rootlessness of modern life would probably seem almost literally hellish to medieval peasants, men and women who lived in much tighter communities still.

    , @Achmed E. Newman

    ... they keep squealing all the time they have to pay taxes and cannot buy machine guns, crack cocaine and child porn in Walmart.
     
    WTH, man? Walmart never had crack cocaine, and back when you could buy machine guns at the store, Walmart wasn't even around.

    I guess you consider going without and having one kid if you're lucky enough to afford it, in order to pay for other people to have kids, free breakfasts and free lunches for them, $200/mo. rent, and free healthcare is not serfdom. That's what Libertarians complain about.

    It's not hard to understand this stuff - it's all about money. Socialism takes yours and just redistributes it, which is NOT stealing, though, no, of course not. Money taken from your savings or potential savings is the same as years of your life taken away. We should all have no problem with that and quit whining about it, right through the time we are extinct. Then, it'll be OK to whine.di

    I'm a Libertarian and I approved this message and will shortly respectfully [Disagree] with yours. EDIT: Oopps, out of [Disagree]s.

    , @Athletic and Whitesplosive

    We have much higher standard of living than medieval people, and we should appreciate it, and be thankful for our good fortune
     
    I agre with most of your post, but why does everyone seem intent on ignoring that we DON'T NEARLY have the same standard of living of wealthy nobles or kings. Huge wealth, servants, lush estates >>>> single room cube with central air, toilet and wifi.

    Think for a second, would a minimum wage slave hesitate to swap places with a medieval noble? Would a noble EVER consider switching places with a modern minimum wager? Obviously not, and the answer remains the same until you get to the wealthiest classes today, so in what way is the standard of living greater?
    , @Mark G.
    Half of the time libertarians are accused of being autistic nerds and the other half of the time they are accused of buying cocaine and hookers and not wanting to get arrested for it. Which one is it? These seem like they would be two mutually exclusive groups unless there are a lot of autistic nerds who use cocaine and hookers that I don't know about.
  10. There are only two types of libertarian – those who want to fuck kids and those who don’t want to pay taxes. I didn’t know Idiocracy level fuck-machines were part of their program too.

  11. @another anon

    Libertarians are fond of pointing out that what would’ve been beyond the material dreams of the most powerful nobles in medieval Europe are taken for granted by minimum wage menial workers today
     
    This is right. We have much higher standard of living than medieval people, and we should appreciate it, and be thankful for our good fortune.

    We also have much more freedom than people in middle ages could ever imagine. Do the libertarians ever appreciate it? No. There are no bigger whiners in the world than libertarians.

    Libertarians should be grateful that they are not slaves or serfs, but they keep squealing all the time they have to pay taxes and cannot buy machine guns, crack cocaine and child porn in Walmart.

    This is right. We have much higher standard of living than medieval people, and we should appreciate it, and be thankful for our good fortune.

    Good fortune had nothing to do with it…inventiveness, industriousness and intelligence of White people did.

  12. @another anon

    Libertarians are fond of pointing out that what would’ve been beyond the material dreams of the most powerful nobles in medieval Europe are taken for granted by minimum wage menial workers today
     
    This is right. We have much higher standard of living than medieval people, and we should appreciate it, and be thankful for our good fortune.

    We also have much more freedom than people in middle ages could ever imagine. Do the libertarians ever appreciate it? No. There are no bigger whiners in the world than libertarians.

    Libertarians should be grateful that they are not slaves or serfs, but they keep squealing all the time they have to pay taxes and cannot buy machine guns, crack cocaine and child porn in Walmart.

    We are better off than in the Middle Ages, but are we truly better off than, say, our grandfathers or great-grandfathers? Materially speaking, without doubt. Yet human beings don’t depend on food alone for happiness, and people today have plenty of very valid reasons to be unhappy. We may note among other things the incel phenomenon, the drug epidemic, the disgusting degeneracy of the media. Or we may note subtler things, less in our face because they are things felt by their absence rather than their obnoxious presence, but probably more profound.

    For example, most of our ancestors lived in communities where people, by and large, trusted each other. In some isolated corners, this is still possible: small towns where you can leave the door unlocked, the car unlocked with the keys in when you go shopping, and where you can ask your neighbor to come over and water your plants if you’re off on a trip. This will sound like a fairy tale to some, but such places still exist, if few and far between.

    However, this sort of high-trust community is now completely beyond the vast majority of our population. How many of us today have neighbors we can trust? How many of us even know our neighbors’ names? In many cases, we may count ourselves fortunate if they speak our language.

    That is just one thing which is not measured in GDP, but which impacts human happiness very profoundly. The loneliness and rootlessness of modern life would probably seem almost literally hellish to medieval peasants, men and women who lived in much tighter communities still.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @another anon

    We are better off than in the Middle Ages, but are we truly better off than, say, our grandfathers or great-grandfathers? Materially speaking, without doubt. Yet human beings don’t depend on food alone for happiness, and people today have plenty of very valid reasons to be unhappy.
     
    Indeed.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/firstworldproblems/

    incel phenomenon
     
    True. In this case, medievals were right - prostitution should be legal and widely available as in the middle ages.

    drug epidemic
     
    also true. Medievals had only booze to get shitfaced all the time.

    the disgusting degeneracy of the media
     
    LOL. Go and check some actual medieval songs and poetry.


    However, this sort of high-trust community is now completely beyond the vast majority of our population.
     
    People left these places, because they absolutely sucked. There are still many tight knit religious communities, but not many people are eager to join them.

    The loneliness and rootlessness of modern life would probably seem almost literally hellish to medieval peasants, men and women who lived in much tighter communities still.
     
    Actual peasants in the third world are leaving their ancestral lands for the favelas and slums of big cities as fast as they can, and if they get a chance to leave for the soulless first world, they see it as winning the lottery of life.
    Watch what people do, not what they say.
    , @Feryl
    Ed Dutton has good YouTube video about the rise in Depressiveness, largely in the first world, that has accompanied the rise of globalism, multiculturalism, feminism, and LGBTQ* since circa 1970 (the 1960's had lots of "advancement" for native born racial minorities, but not until the 70's did lots of women enter the workforce and lots of foreigners (often neither white nor NE Asian) pass through open borders).

    The gist of it seems to be that human beings, particularly older and less cosmopolitan ones, simply are not psychologically equipped to be dealing with such radical, in some cases unprecedented, policies and rapid cultural and economic changes. No matter the superficial (or ultimately illusory) material comforts of indoor climate control, instant communication, modern medicine, the ability to watch or listen to every movie/song ever recorded on demand, and endless supplies of all kinds of consumer goods (esp. food, drink, and drug which most of the pop. is hooked on to various degrees, see the endless number of chain coffee houses in every city, suburb, and town), many people still would rather have eternal cultural homogeneity than turbo capitalism.

    It could be that the globalist/consumerist utopia of endless tread mill running to not "fall behind" is just way too much psychological stress for humans who evolved to trade stories during the many "lulls" of game hunting, farm work, and basic domestic duties for the women folk. I don't recall the thinker, or his videos, at the moment, buy I seem to remember some dude talking about how the "traditional" stressors of life (interpersonal conflict within the neighborhood or family, resource conflict between tribes, the physical exhaustion and physical injuries that comes with manual labor and long-rage hunting and warfare) are what we were best "programmed" for, but modern first world life removes most of these physical and social rigors and replaces them with forms of material and psychological welfare (affirmative action and food stamps to prevent hunger and riots, and doting "parents" who refuse to let their kids grow up as each generation is physically weaker and more neurotic than the last) and "career" pursuits that don't always produce things of practical and immediate value, but rather are only "worth" the paycheck one ends up getting every two weeks. This is why we have such high levels of depression, insecurity, and spectacular steam blow offs called "mass murder". And we wonder why high levels of social media and TV news media consumption is associated with despair. We evolved to be vigorous "actors" and useful workers, not cubicle occupants and TV addicts. We shouldn't have 25 year olds who look like 12 year olds. As recently as the 1970's many 25 year olds looked like today's 40 year olds.
  13. Attention Do Gooders:

    Women’s Christian Temperance Union and all the other good-hearted groups that seek to better and improve the life of man — and woman — through better behaviour and love of God and all that stuff.

    Fancy people who put an “I” in behaviour and others are getting all kinds of OOOOH — TRAY and the like and now they are writing about Anne Boleyn and women of a most inanimate disposition providing no cry for lonely men.

    As the great Being watches over us and Van Morrison and we heed the words of a Mulatto named Marley from the islands who sang “no woman, no cry.”

    I have the answer for all that ails us and bothers us so. Ale is the answer, you gotta drink more ale!

    Complete And Total Debt Jubilee will get the procreative energies going so young White men and young White women and older Whites can have more offspring.

    Of course, all billionaires will have to be financially liquidated and I am relying on the lovely ladies of Ohio circa 1873 in the WCTU to make the obvious case that the billionaires must be financially liquidated so young White people can enjoy AFFORDABLE FAMILY FORMATION.

    Lighten the hearts of young Whites by extinguishing all debt and especially student loan debt and the greedy ones born before 1965 who object should be permanently removed from the USA.

    There is no place for any type of radicalism on the Unz Review!

    I usually check spelling but I’ll give you some fun seeing my errors.

    Tweets from 2015:

  14. @John Regan
    We are better off than in the Middle Ages, but are we truly better off than, say, our grandfathers or great-grandfathers? Materially speaking, without doubt. Yet human beings don't depend on food alone for happiness, and people today have plenty of very valid reasons to be unhappy. We may note among other things the incel phenomenon, the drug epidemic, the disgusting degeneracy of the media. Or we may note subtler things, less in our face because they are things felt by their absence rather than their obnoxious presence, but probably more profound.

    For example, most of our ancestors lived in communities where people, by and large, trusted each other. In some isolated corners, this is still possible: small towns where you can leave the door unlocked, the car unlocked with the keys in when you go shopping, and where you can ask your neighbor to come over and water your plants if you're off on a trip. This will sound like a fairy tale to some, but such places still exist, if few and far between.

    However, this sort of high-trust community is now completely beyond the vast majority of our population. How many of us today have neighbors we can trust? How many of us even know our neighbors' names? In many cases, we may count ourselves fortunate if they speak our language.

    That is just one thing which is not measured in GDP, but which impacts human happiness very profoundly. The loneliness and rootlessness of modern life would probably seem almost literally hellish to medieval peasants, men and women who lived in much tighter communities still.

    We are better off than in the Middle Ages, but are we truly better off than, say, our grandfathers or great-grandfathers? Materially speaking, without doubt. Yet human beings don’t depend on food alone for happiness, and people today have plenty of very valid reasons to be unhappy.

    Indeed.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/firstworldproblems/

    incel phenomenon

    True. In this case, medievals were right – prostitution should be legal and widely available as in the middle ages.

    drug epidemic

    also true. Medievals had only booze to get shitfaced all the time.

    the disgusting degeneracy of the media

    LOL. Go and check some actual medieval songs and poetry.

    However, this sort of high-trust community is now completely beyond the vast majority of our population.

    People left these places, because they absolutely sucked. There are still many tight knit religious communities, but not many people are eager to join them.

    The loneliness and rootlessness of modern life would probably seem almost literally hellish to medieval peasants, men and women who lived in much tighter communities still.

    Actual peasants in the third world are leaving their ancestral lands for the favelas and slums of big cities as fast as they can, and if they get a chance to leave for the soulless first world, they see it as winning the lottery of life.
    Watch what people do, not what they say.

    • Replies: @dfordoom


    However, this sort of high-trust community is now completely beyond the vast majority of our population.
     
    People left these places, because they absolutely sucked. There are still many tight knit religious communities, but not many people are eager to join them.
     
    If the people who wax lyrical about the joys of living in tight-knit high-trust communities had to live in one most would change their tune.
  15. I think that sex-robots wouldn’t decrease TFR dramatically lower than it is now, in the age of free porn on demand. Though, maybe they would cut into the bottom line of hookers.

    One reason is the uncanny valley. Another is the Turing test. I think the apparent falseness would be a major obstacle to adoption. And it might be somewhat analogous to blow-up dolls. But, even if they compared well or were better, I think woman would still have enough political power to ban them.

    I guess I am an optimist on androids, but I think that they might actually help people to socialize more, rather than less, by training isolated people up to standards of small talk and maybe eye contact, as well.

    • Replies: @dfordoom

    I guess I am an optimist on androids, but I think that they might actually help people to socialize more, rather than less, by training isolated people up to standards of small talk and maybe eye contact, as well.
     
    That's an interesting point. For people who currently have no real social contact with others and no social skills at all they might make life marginally better, and make those people slightly less of a social problem.
  16. @another anon

    Libertarians are fond of pointing out that what would’ve been beyond the material dreams of the most powerful nobles in medieval Europe are taken for granted by minimum wage menial workers today
     
    This is right. We have much higher standard of living than medieval people, and we should appreciate it, and be thankful for our good fortune.

    We also have much more freedom than people in middle ages could ever imagine. Do the libertarians ever appreciate it? No. There are no bigger whiners in the world than libertarians.

    Libertarians should be grateful that they are not slaves or serfs, but they keep squealing all the time they have to pay taxes and cannot buy machine guns, crack cocaine and child porn in Walmart.

    … they keep squealing all the time they have to pay taxes and cannot buy machine guns, crack cocaine and child porn in Walmart.

    WTH, man? Walmart never had crack cocaine, and back when you could buy machine guns at the store, Walmart wasn’t even around.

    I guess you consider going without and having one kid if you’re lucky enough to afford it, in order to pay for other people to have kids, free breakfasts and free lunches for them, $200/mo. rent, and free healthcare is not serfdom. That’s what Libertarians complain about.

    It’s not hard to understand this stuff – it’s all about money. Socialism takes yours and just redistributes it, which is NOT stealing, though, no, of course not. Money taken from your savings or potential savings is the same as years of your life taken away. We should all have no problem with that and quit whining about it, right through the time we are extinct. Then, it’ll be OK to whine.di

    I’m a Libertarian and I approved this message and will shortly respectfully [Disagree] with yours. EDIT: Oopps, out of [Disagree]s.

    • Agree: Mark G.
  17. @obwandiyag
    The only reason that modern people have access to these inventions, a lot of which suck in various ways, is oil. When the oil is gone, back to hovel serfdom you go.

    Pollyanna 😀

    When three quarters of the world realize the Green Revolution has been cancelled and the rest that they can no longer consume, serfdom will be the very last of our worries.
    Literally 😛

  18. Yes well, this is why pretty much everybody ignores Libertarians.

    • Agree: dfordoom
  19. @Nodwink
    That clip shows why Futurama is a better show than The Simpsons. The producers had to use their imaginations, rather than rely on crude ethnic stereotypes.

    Except that the early Simpsons were unambiguously much funnier than Futurama (though the first 3ish seasons of it weee pretty good too). If anything the Simpson’s writers had greater constraints, they couldn’t play off of all the well-known sci-fi tropes.

    And imagine getting so butthurt at “thank you, come again!” that you think the Simpsons relied on ethnic comedy. There’s maybe one stereotype that appeared with regularity in Apu (and an obviously true stereotype, which just about everyone knows an example of, which is why it resonated). Maybe 1/100 jokes were playing on ethnic stereotypes, and that’s being generous. And the only one which was really negative was Cletus the hillbilly, they knew who the soft targets that they wouldn’t get in trouble for were.

  20. Arguments like this just show how vapid, intellectually and morally shallow libertarians are. Even just consider the VERY obvious materially false nature of the argument: “Your riches are greater than a medieval King’s!” Really, my bing-bing wahoos and phone are worth more than multiple Castles, multiple massive estates in the most valuable parts of the country, a huge permanent staff of cooks and servants, unlimited food of my choosing every night, the Country’s total supply of gold and other precious metals, jewels, etc. You’d have to be retarded to think that anyone with those things wasn’t spectacularly wealthy even by today’s standards.

    The fact is that all that junk that would make a King “jealous” is mostly useless distractions and doo-dads to most people, 90% of people will never read the classics despite the fact that they’re free and only a click away. The truth is that people are materially much poorer than they were even 50 years ago; home ownership is far less attainable, and only the most small-souled bugman would choose his smartphone if it was either “never use a cell phone again or never own a home”.

    But that’s also ignoring the even more profound immaterial wealth of Kings, that is, great social status, power, and prestige. In immaterial metrics modern people are poorer than peasants: peasants had a social life rich in familial bonds, fulfilling public religion and ritual, and a coherent and satisfying culture and social order. The people of today are drugging themselves into a stupor and killing themselves because they lack all of that, despite having “the wealth of kings”.

    • Agree: Tusk
  21. @another anon

    Libertarians are fond of pointing out that what would’ve been beyond the material dreams of the most powerful nobles in medieval Europe are taken for granted by minimum wage menial workers today
     
    This is right. We have much higher standard of living than medieval people, and we should appreciate it, and be thankful for our good fortune.

    We also have much more freedom than people in middle ages could ever imagine. Do the libertarians ever appreciate it? No. There are no bigger whiners in the world than libertarians.

    Libertarians should be grateful that they are not slaves or serfs, but they keep squealing all the time they have to pay taxes and cannot buy machine guns, crack cocaine and child porn in Walmart.

    We have much higher standard of living than medieval people, and we should appreciate it, and be thankful for our good fortune

    I agre with most of your post, but why does everyone seem intent on ignoring that we DON’T NEARLY have the same standard of living of wealthy nobles or kings. Huge wealth, servants, lush estates >>>> single room cube with central air, toilet and wifi.

    Think for a second, would a minimum wage slave hesitate to swap places with a medieval noble? Would a noble EVER consider switching places with a modern minimum wager? Obviously not, and the answer remains the same until you get to the wealthiest classes today, so in what way is the standard of living greater?

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    Obviously not, and the answer remains the same until you get to the wealthiest classes today, so in what way is the standard of living greater?
     
    It's not. We just have more fossil fuel-derived foods, fabrics, and frivolities to smooth over the fluctuations.

    It's always disappointing but hardly surprising that so many commentators even here maintain such cartoonish ideas about the Middle Ages. In reality, people in the Middle Ages ate well and carried on a culture full of richness and meaningful pursuits. It's hard to imagine any time that the average person was happier, and it's hard to imagine any economic system that benefitted all classes of society more than feudalism did. Yet both are unfairly maligned by people who ought to know better.

  22. @another anon

    Libertarians are fond of pointing out that what would’ve been beyond the material dreams of the most powerful nobles in medieval Europe are taken for granted by minimum wage menial workers today
     
    This is right. We have much higher standard of living than medieval people, and we should appreciate it, and be thankful for our good fortune.

    We also have much more freedom than people in middle ages could ever imagine. Do the libertarians ever appreciate it? No. There are no bigger whiners in the world than libertarians.

    Libertarians should be grateful that they are not slaves or serfs, but they keep squealing all the time they have to pay taxes and cannot buy machine guns, crack cocaine and child porn in Walmart.

    Half of the time libertarians are accused of being autistic nerds and the other half of the time they are accused of buying cocaine and hookers and not wanting to get arrested for it. Which one is it? These seem like they would be two mutually exclusive groups unless there are a lot of autistic nerds who use cocaine and hookers that I don’t know about.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    Some of the libertarians are openly hedonistic and selfish, some of the others are Ivory Tower elitist dorks who legit think that the best economy ever will be achieved with libertarianism. The former know they are wrecking society but are indifferent, the latter are naive enough to not think there are any negative effects of de-regulating everything. Either way, self-described libertarians have more psychopathic and narcissistic traits than supporters of other political philosophies (even the avowed commies are more wholesome), according to research. It really just boils down to the fact that "fuck the government's right to tell me what to do" has the moral sophistication and reasoning of a bratty two year old.
  23. @Athletic and Whitesplosive

    We have much higher standard of living than medieval people, and we should appreciate it, and be thankful for our good fortune
     
    I agre with most of your post, but why does everyone seem intent on ignoring that we DON'T NEARLY have the same standard of living of wealthy nobles or kings. Huge wealth, servants, lush estates >>>> single room cube with central air, toilet and wifi.

    Think for a second, would a minimum wage slave hesitate to swap places with a medieval noble? Would a noble EVER consider switching places with a modern minimum wager? Obviously not, and the answer remains the same until you get to the wealthiest classes today, so in what way is the standard of living greater?

    Obviously not, and the answer remains the same until you get to the wealthiest classes today, so in what way is the standard of living greater?

    It’s not. We just have more fossil fuel-derived foods, fabrics, and frivolities to smooth over the fluctuations.

    It’s always disappointing but hardly surprising that so many commentators even here maintain such cartoonish ideas about the Middle Ages. In reality, people in the Middle Ages ate well and carried on a culture full of richness and meaningful pursuits. It’s hard to imagine any time that the average person was happier, and it’s hard to imagine any economic system that benefitted all classes of society more than feudalism did. Yet both are unfairly maligned by people who ought to know better.

    • LOL: iffen
    • Replies: @Mr. Rational

    In reality, people in the Middle Ages ate well and carried on a culture full of richness and meaningful pursuits.
     
    Famines were regular events during the entire pre-industrial period, the Middle Ages included.  These famines killed millions.  Malthus developed his theory based on centuries of lived experience.

    It appears to have been the Black Death which freed England (especially) from the Malthusian trap and made labor valuable enough to start the cycle of automation.  Harsh, but today's Europeans can rightfully thank their stars that their great-to-the-Nth granddaddies died from a flea bite or a badly-timed cough.
    , @dfordoom

    It’s always disappointing but hardly surprising that so many commentators even here maintain such cartoonish ideas about the Middle Ages. In reality, people in the Middle Ages ate well and carried on a culture full of richness and meaningful pursuits. It’s hard to imagine any time that the average person was happier, and it’s hard to imagine any economic system that benefitted all classes of society more than feudalism did. Yet both are unfairly maligned by people who ought to know better.
     
    If you could combine medieval society and culture with just a few of the genuinely useful modern technologies, like antibiotics and flush toilets, then you might well have a point. So a version of feudalism that included those things could be quite attractive.
  24. Religions have been founded on the Bible, resulting in millions of people deriving inspiration and moral strength from amazing stories about fantastic feats of faith. Hundreds of years from now, our descendants will find divine inspiration from the story of Cap wielding Mjolnir. pic.twitter.com/UUBY1cYcym— KevinSmith (@ThatKevinSmith) February 19, 2020

    Forget King Henry VIII creating the Anglican Church, we know have executive boards creating the Marvel Cinematic Universal Church (MCUC) and I know we serfs are all the better for it.

  25. @Intelligent Dasein

    Obviously not, and the answer remains the same until you get to the wealthiest classes today, so in what way is the standard of living greater?
     
    It's not. We just have more fossil fuel-derived foods, fabrics, and frivolities to smooth over the fluctuations.

    It's always disappointing but hardly surprising that so many commentators even here maintain such cartoonish ideas about the Middle Ages. In reality, people in the Middle Ages ate well and carried on a culture full of richness and meaningful pursuits. It's hard to imagine any time that the average person was happier, and it's hard to imagine any economic system that benefitted all classes of society more than feudalism did. Yet both are unfairly maligned by people who ought to know better.

    In reality, people in the Middle Ages ate well and carried on a culture full of richness and meaningful pursuits.

    Famines were regular events during the entire pre-industrial period, the Middle Ages included.  These famines killed millions.  Malthus developed his theory based on centuries of lived experience.

    It appears to have been the Black Death which freed England (especially) from the Malthusian trap and made labor valuable enough to start the cycle of automation.  Harsh, but today’s Europeans can rightfully thank their stars that their great-to-the-Nth granddaddies died from a flea bite or a badly-timed cough.

  26. @John Regan
    We are better off than in the Middle Ages, but are we truly better off than, say, our grandfathers or great-grandfathers? Materially speaking, without doubt. Yet human beings don't depend on food alone for happiness, and people today have plenty of very valid reasons to be unhappy. We may note among other things the incel phenomenon, the drug epidemic, the disgusting degeneracy of the media. Or we may note subtler things, less in our face because they are things felt by their absence rather than their obnoxious presence, but probably more profound.

    For example, most of our ancestors lived in communities where people, by and large, trusted each other. In some isolated corners, this is still possible: small towns where you can leave the door unlocked, the car unlocked with the keys in when you go shopping, and where you can ask your neighbor to come over and water your plants if you're off on a trip. This will sound like a fairy tale to some, but such places still exist, if few and far between.

    However, this sort of high-trust community is now completely beyond the vast majority of our population. How many of us today have neighbors we can trust? How many of us even know our neighbors' names? In many cases, we may count ourselves fortunate if they speak our language.

    That is just one thing which is not measured in GDP, but which impacts human happiness very profoundly. The loneliness and rootlessness of modern life would probably seem almost literally hellish to medieval peasants, men and women who lived in much tighter communities still.

    Ed Dutton has good YouTube video about the rise in Depressiveness, largely in the first world, that has accompanied the rise of globalism, multiculturalism, feminism, and LGBTQ* since circa 1970 (the 1960’s had lots of “advancement” for native born racial minorities, but not until the 70’s did lots of women enter the workforce and lots of foreigners (often neither white nor NE Asian) pass through open borders).

    The gist of it seems to be that human beings, particularly older and less cosmopolitan ones, simply are not psychologically equipped to be dealing with such radical, in some cases unprecedented, policies and rapid cultural and economic changes. No matter the superficial (or ultimately illusory) material comforts of indoor climate control, instant communication, modern medicine, the ability to watch or listen to every movie/song ever recorded on demand, and endless supplies of all kinds of consumer goods (esp. food, drink, and drug which most of the pop. is hooked on to various degrees, see the endless number of chain coffee houses in every city, suburb, and town), many people still would rather have eternal cultural homogeneity than turbo capitalism.

    It could be that the globalist/consumerist utopia of endless tread mill running to not “fall behind” is just way too much psychological stress for humans who evolved to trade stories during the many “lulls” of game hunting, farm work, and basic domestic duties for the women folk. I don’t recall the thinker, or his videos, at the moment, buy I seem to remember some dude talking about how the “traditional” stressors of life (interpersonal conflict within the neighborhood or family, resource conflict between tribes, the physical exhaustion and physical injuries that comes with manual labor and long-rage hunting and warfare) are what we were best “programmed” for, but modern first world life removes most of these physical and social rigors and replaces them with forms of material and psychological welfare (affirmative action and food stamps to prevent hunger and riots, and doting “parents” who refuse to let their kids grow up as each generation is physically weaker and more neurotic than the last) and “career” pursuits that don’t always produce things of practical and immediate value, but rather are only “worth” the paycheck one ends up getting every two weeks. This is why we have such high levels of depression, insecurity, and spectacular steam blow offs called “mass murder”. And we wonder why high levels of social media and TV news media consumption is associated with despair. We evolved to be vigorous “actors” and useful workers, not cubicle occupants and TV addicts. We shouldn’t have 25 year olds who look like 12 year olds. As recently as the 1970’s many 25 year olds looked like today’s 40 year olds.

  27. @Mark G.
    Half of the time libertarians are accused of being autistic nerds and the other half of the time they are accused of buying cocaine and hookers and not wanting to get arrested for it. Which one is it? These seem like they would be two mutually exclusive groups unless there are a lot of autistic nerds who use cocaine and hookers that I don't know about.

    Some of the libertarians are openly hedonistic and selfish, some of the others are Ivory Tower elitist dorks who legit think that the best economy ever will be achieved with libertarianism. The former know they are wrecking society but are indifferent, the latter are naive enough to not think there are any negative effects of de-regulating everything. Either way, self-described libertarians have more psychopathic and narcissistic traits than supporters of other political philosophies (even the avowed commies are more wholesome), according to research. It really just boils down to the fact that “fuck the government’s right to tell me what to do” has the moral sophistication and reasoning of a bratty two year old.

    • Replies: @Mark G.

    Either way, self-described libertarians have more psychopathic and narcissistic traits than supporters of other political philosophies (even the avowed commies are more wholesome), according to research.
     
    I think if you want to find power hungry psychopaths, you will find more of them among the politicians in Washington D.C. than in a gathering of libertarians.

    A commenter above suggested libertarians want it to be legal to sell child porn at Walmart. I went over to do searches at some popular libertarian websites like LewRockwell.com, Reason.com and the sites for the Von Mises and Cato Institutes for the articles advocating that and couldn't find any. I went home and looked at some of the libertarian books I have by well known libertarians like Ron Paul, Hayek, Rothbard, Friedman and so on and checked through the indexes looking for child pornography to see where they advocate legalizing that and couldn't find anything there either. The only people who engage in the sexual exploitation of children are totally amoral characters like Jeffrey Epstein. I know he wasn't a libertarian. He gave all his political donations to the Democrats and Republicans.

    Libertarians don't complain about the growth of the state because they are whiners. They complain because government overspending is causing trillion dollar a year deficits that will cause the country to slowly go bankrupt. Things are much worse than they appear. The Baby Boomers have been going through their peak earning years and paying lots of taxes. After they all retire, tax receipts will drop and Social Security and Medicare costs will rise. Then we will see the true condition the country is in.
  28. @Achmed E. Newman

    To lament contemporary material want is thus perceived as a kind of existential ingratitude.
     
    A lot of contemporary material want is for quality, not just quantity, in this age of Cheap China-made Crap. That's what all the granite countertops, hardwood floors, and architectural shingles are about, along with phenomena like the Foodies, $50,000 weddings for chicks that don't look like any kind of Queen from any of my history books, and vacations to Europe for everyone.

    People at all levels of society now want the high quality that those Kings and Queens had, even though the science and engineering didn't allow them anything like we have now in comfort.

    In America today, people are trying to have that quality, but they really are not able to pay for it anymore. In the last 25 years, with wealth creation transferring from America to China, but especially since the '08 crash, Americans have been trying to live this life of Riley using credit cards, 7-year car loans, and mortgage-sized student loans. And that's just the people - the US Government is at a whole 'nother level of debt stupidity.

    That was kind of orthogonal to the subject of the post, but no, I have no reason to complain about any sexbot as an individual, but if they became viable (not aware, I don't want aware), society as a whole will be fast approaching the End Times, as revealed in Revelation. BTW, the Chinese have a big head-start on that with their Mark 'o the Beast push to a Social Credit/Cashless society.

    In America today, people are trying to have that quality, but they really are not able to pay for it anymore. In the last 25 years, with wealth creation transferring from America to China, but especially since the ’08 crash, Americans have been trying to live this life of Riley using credit cards, 7-year car loans, and mortgage-sized student loans.

    We’ve forgotten how to be content with enough. It’s not enough to own a car that runs, it has to be a new car. It’s not enough to own a perfectly serviceable and very comfortable sofa, it has to be a brand new sofa. It’s not enough to be able to buy a new dress, it has to be a designer label dress. It’s not enough to own a set of golf clubs, you have to own a fancy shiny very expensive set of golf clubs.

    These things are not seen as the necessities of life. They’re seen as ways to signal success. In our society there is only one measure of success – money. So we need to be able to buy things that demonstrate that we have money.

    And we’d rather have a new car bought on credit than a reliable older car that we own outright. If you have a new car it doesn’t matter how much debt you had to go into to get it it’s still a signal of success, whereas the guy with a slightly beat-up older model that still runs perfectly and that he doesn’t owe a cent on is an obvious loser.

    It’s a reflection of the fact that consuming things is pretty much our entire social purpose. So we have to be more extravagant consumers than other people to feel like we’re worth anything.

    • Agree: AaronB
    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    Of the 9 vehicles I've owned, only 2 of them were purchased new.  Most of them have served me well regardless.
  29. @dfordoom

    In America today, people are trying to have that quality, but they really are not able to pay for it anymore. In the last 25 years, with wealth creation transferring from America to China, but especially since the ’08 crash, Americans have been trying to live this life of Riley using credit cards, 7-year car loans, and mortgage-sized student loans.
     
    We've forgotten how to be content with enough. It's not enough to own a car that runs, it has to be a new car. It's not enough to own a perfectly serviceable and very comfortable sofa, it has to be a brand new sofa. It's not enough to be able to buy a new dress, it has to be a designer label dress. It's not enough to own a set of golf clubs, you have to own a fancy shiny very expensive set of golf clubs.

    These things are not seen as the necessities of life. They're seen as ways to signal success. In our society there is only one measure of success - money. So we need to be able to buy things that demonstrate that we have money.

    And we'd rather have a new car bought on credit than a reliable older car that we own outright. If you have a new car it doesn't matter how much debt you had to go into to get it it's still a signal of success, whereas the guy with a slightly beat-up older model that still runs perfectly and that he doesn't owe a cent on is an obvious loser.

    It's a reflection of the fact that consuming things is pretty much our entire social purpose. So we have to be more extravagant consumers than other people to feel like we're worth anything.

    Of the 9 vehicles I’ve owned, only 2 of them were purchased new.  Most of them have served me well regardless.

    • Replies: @dfordoom

    Of the 9 vehicles I’ve owned, only 2 of them were purchased new. Most of them have served me well regardless.
     
    I'm currently driving a battered 18-year-old station wagon. But it runs fine, it's just passed its roadworthiness inspection for another year and I own it outright. And it gets me where I want to go. Not owing any money on it is a big plus as far as I'm concerned. It ain't much but it's all mine.
  30. @another anon

    We are better off than in the Middle Ages, but are we truly better off than, say, our grandfathers or great-grandfathers? Materially speaking, without doubt. Yet human beings don’t depend on food alone for happiness, and people today have plenty of very valid reasons to be unhappy.
     
    Indeed.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/firstworldproblems/

    incel phenomenon
     
    True. In this case, medievals were right - prostitution should be legal and widely available as in the middle ages.

    drug epidemic
     
    also true. Medievals had only booze to get shitfaced all the time.

    the disgusting degeneracy of the media
     
    LOL. Go and check some actual medieval songs and poetry.


    However, this sort of high-trust community is now completely beyond the vast majority of our population.
     
    People left these places, because they absolutely sucked. There are still many tight knit religious communities, but not many people are eager to join them.

    The loneliness and rootlessness of modern life would probably seem almost literally hellish to medieval peasants, men and women who lived in much tighter communities still.
     
    Actual peasants in the third world are leaving their ancestral lands for the favelas and slums of big cities as fast as they can, and if they get a chance to leave for the soulless first world, they see it as winning the lottery of life.
    Watch what people do, not what they say.

    However, this sort of high-trust community is now completely beyond the vast majority of our population.

    People left these places, because they absolutely sucked. There are still many tight knit religious communities, but not many people are eager to join them.

    If the people who wax lyrical about the joys of living in tight-knit high-trust communities had to live in one most would change their tune.

  31. @songbird
    I think that sex-robots wouldn't decrease TFR dramatically lower than it is now, in the age of free porn on demand. Though, maybe they would cut into the bottom line of hookers.

    One reason is the uncanny valley. Another is the Turing test. I think the apparent falseness would be a major obstacle to adoption. And it might be somewhat analogous to blow-up dolls. But, even if they compared well or were better, I think woman would still have enough political power to ban them.

    I guess I am an optimist on androids, but I think that they might actually help people to socialize more, rather than less, by training isolated people up to standards of small talk and maybe eye contact, as well.

    I guess I am an optimist on androids, but I think that they might actually help people to socialize more, rather than less, by training isolated people up to standards of small talk and maybe eye contact, as well.

    That’s an interesting point. For people who currently have no real social contact with others and no social skills at all they might make life marginally better, and make those people slightly less of a social problem.

  32. @Intelligent Dasein

    Obviously not, and the answer remains the same until you get to the wealthiest classes today, so in what way is the standard of living greater?
     
    It's not. We just have more fossil fuel-derived foods, fabrics, and frivolities to smooth over the fluctuations.

    It's always disappointing but hardly surprising that so many commentators even here maintain such cartoonish ideas about the Middle Ages. In reality, people in the Middle Ages ate well and carried on a culture full of richness and meaningful pursuits. It's hard to imagine any time that the average person was happier, and it's hard to imagine any economic system that benefitted all classes of society more than feudalism did. Yet both are unfairly maligned by people who ought to know better.

    It’s always disappointing but hardly surprising that so many commentators even here maintain such cartoonish ideas about the Middle Ages. In reality, people in the Middle Ages ate well and carried on a culture full of richness and meaningful pursuits. It’s hard to imagine any time that the average person was happier, and it’s hard to imagine any economic system that benefitted all classes of society more than feudalism did. Yet both are unfairly maligned by people who ought to know better.

    If you could combine medieval society and culture with just a few of the genuinely useful modern technologies, like antibiotics and flush toilets, then you might well have a point. So a version of feudalism that included those things could be quite attractive.

  33. Given that Libertarians and the Middle Ages are both a topic in this thread, it must be noted that the libertarian fetishization of feudalism has influenced the attempt to romanticize and rehabilitate that era.

    I’m struck by how similar the Happy Serf fantasies of today’s conservatives are to the Noble Savage myth of Australian Aborigines that was popular among leftists here in the 90s. Both the Serf and the Savage living in harmony with Nature, tilling the soil or hunting goanna, living a happy communal life, untroubled by television and the anomie that afflicts the modern city dweller.

    • Agree: iffen
    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    it must be noted that the libertarian fetishization of feudalism has influenced the attempt to romanticize and rehabilitate that era.
     
    You do not know what you are talking about. Libertarians hate the Middle Ages and they use feudalism as a term of derision to describe today's central bank-backed oligarchy, which they refer to as "the new feudalism," thus betraying a complete misunderstanding of what the term actually means. There is no contemporary libertarian who praises feudalism and they never even speak of it without utter contempt.
  34. @Mr. Rational
    Of the 9 vehicles I've owned, only 2 of them were purchased new.  Most of them have served me well regardless.

    Of the 9 vehicles I’ve owned, only 2 of them were purchased new. Most of them have served me well regardless.

    I’m currently driving a battered 18-year-old station wagon. But it runs fine, it’s just passed its roadworthiness inspection for another year and I own it outright. And it gets me where I want to go. Not owing any money on it is a big plus as far as I’m concerned. It ain’t much but it’s all mine.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  35. @Feryl
    Some of the libertarians are openly hedonistic and selfish, some of the others are Ivory Tower elitist dorks who legit think that the best economy ever will be achieved with libertarianism. The former know they are wrecking society but are indifferent, the latter are naive enough to not think there are any negative effects of de-regulating everything. Either way, self-described libertarians have more psychopathic and narcissistic traits than supporters of other political philosophies (even the avowed commies are more wholesome), according to research. It really just boils down to the fact that "fuck the government's right to tell me what to do" has the moral sophistication and reasoning of a bratty two year old.

    Either way, self-described libertarians have more psychopathic and narcissistic traits than supporters of other political philosophies (even the avowed commies are more wholesome), according to research.

    I think if you want to find power hungry psychopaths, you will find more of them among the politicians in Washington D.C. than in a gathering of libertarians.

    A commenter above suggested libertarians want it to be legal to sell child porn at Walmart. I went over to do searches at some popular libertarian websites like LewRockwell.com, Reason.com and the sites for the Von Mises and Cato Institutes for the articles advocating that and couldn’t find any. I went home and looked at some of the libertarian books I have by well known libertarians like Ron Paul, Hayek, Rothbard, Friedman and so on and checked through the indexes looking for child pornography to see where they advocate legalizing that and couldn’t find anything there either. The only people who engage in the sexual exploitation of children are totally amoral characters like Jeffrey Epstein. I know he wasn’t a libertarian. He gave all his political donations to the Democrats and Republicans.

    Libertarians don’t complain about the growth of the state because they are whiners. They complain because government overspending is causing trillion dollar a year deficits that will cause the country to slowly go bankrupt. Things are much worse than they appear. The Baby Boomers have been going through their peak earning years and paying lots of taxes. After they all retire, tax receipts will drop and Social Security and Medicare costs will rise. Then we will see the true condition the country is in.

  36. anon[347] • Disclaimer says:

    Theoretical libertarian is indeed whiner, pathetic nerd who sits at his computer all day and drones on why government is oppression, taxes are theft etc etc. As if any one cared about his “arguments”.

    Practical libertarian is not wasting his time trying to persuade the sheeple. Practical libertarian understands if he wants to be free he must free himself.

    Practical libertarian is man with several offshore bank accounts and collection of passports in his pockets.
    Practical libertarian liberates himself and shits from high tower at your governments, your regulations, your taxes, your nations, your borders, your wars.
    Practical libertarian is globalist, the world belongs to him.

    Theoretical libertarians are losers. Practical libertarians are winners.

  37. Anon[115] • Disclaimer says:

    https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090722182819AAyxcYT

    Well im 16, and turning 17 soon and I really want a fleshlight. Before you say anything like “get a girlfriend” or “oh thats sick”, I have a girlfriend and we’ve discussed having sex, but I really want to wait. With that being said im still a normal teenage guy and have a lot of sexual tension and I think a fleshlight would be a good way to relieve that tension and get some pleasure without risking any STD’s or getting my girlfriend pregnant, i mean she has a vibrator, why can’t i have a fleshlight?

    A “Fleshlight” (TM) is a fancy masturbation sleeve. Like sexbots, it has no virginity to lose, can’t get pregnant, or become broken-hearted. And neither are likely to spread STDs.

    Outside of marriage, most sex pretty much comes down to a form of prostitution anyway.

    So sexbots and Fleshlights, etc. replacing casual sex where babies are not wanted? Wouldn’t that be an improvement? Shouldn’t the 16-yr-old boy quoted be encouraged?

  38. Reason magazine and the Mises Institute are creatures of the ChiComs.

  39. @Nodwink
    Given that Libertarians and the Middle Ages are both a topic in this thread, it must be noted that the libertarian fetishization of feudalism has influenced the attempt to romanticize and rehabilitate that era.

    I'm struck by how similar the Happy Serf fantasies of today's conservatives are to the Noble Savage myth of Australian Aborigines that was popular among leftists here in the 90s. Both the Serf and the Savage living in harmony with Nature, tilling the soil or hunting goanna, living a happy communal life, untroubled by television and the anomie that afflicts the modern city dweller.

    it must be noted that the libertarian fetishization of feudalism has influenced the attempt to romanticize and rehabilitate that era.

    You do not know what you are talking about. Libertarians hate the Middle Ages and they use feudalism as a term of derision to describe today’s central bank-backed oligarchy, which they refer to as “the new feudalism,” thus betraying a complete misunderstanding of what the term actually means. There is no contemporary libertarian who praises feudalism and they never even speak of it without utter contempt.

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