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How Hispanics, Asians, and American Indians Voted in the 2016 US Presidential Election
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From the large 2016 Cooperative Congressional Election Study:

Cubans and Filipinos, among Hispanics and Asians respectively, are generally considered to be the most assimilated into the American way of life and so they, like white Americans, exhibit a great deal of political diversity among their ranks. Koreans and Filipinos are considerably more likely to be Christian than Asians of other ancestries living in the US. God may not be Republican, but his votaries tend to be.

It was this fool’s hope in the halcyon days of 2016 that an America First populism could go some way in uniting Old Americans–red, white, and black–in a political coalition putting the interests of American citizens ahead of non-citizens. Many American Indians may have been open to the idea, but black Americans were not.

CCES variables used: CC18_317(1-2), MULTRACE_5, CC18_354a_(series), CC18_354b_(series)

 
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  1. I’m surprised Central America votes more Republican than South America. South America has countries with lots of Whites (Argentina, Uruguay; to lesser extent: Brazil, Colombia) and I’d suppose these South American (quasi-)Whites would want the USA to be different from the countries they came from (read: a free(r) market)… I mean, wasn’t due to that they frickin’ came to America, anyway‽
    .
    .
    .
    P.S.: I posted the following in the previous ‘Audacious Epigone’ article, but it’s buried there where no-one can see it, therefore I’ll post it again:

    Apparently, half of Jews are atheist (or what-not) – this is like 1% of the American population! Can we have stats of how Jewish atheists/agnostics vote vs. atheistic/agnostic White gentiles vote?

    I feel the atheist/agnostic/deist/etc. vote is not so Democrat if we could separate Jews from the rest.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Vergissmeinnicht


    I’m surprised Central America votes more Republican than South America. South America has countries with lots of Whites
     
    I said this before and I will say it again. Race matters a lot, but it's not everything. Ethno-cultural factors (including, powerfully, religion) can play robust roles in voting behavior. I've written numerous comments about this on Unz.

    Cubans and Filipinos, among Hispanics and Asians respectively, are generally considered to be the most assimilated into the American way of life and so they, like white Americans, exhibit a great deal of political diversity among their ranks.
     
    I've linked to this before, but here goes again:

    https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2816a3fb8063b5f5816e561b0303bea4.webp


    Koreans and Filipinos are considerably more likely to be Christian than Asians of other ancestries living in the US.
     
    See these figures:

    https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2012/07/overview3.png
    89% of Filipinos in America are Christian (65% Catholic + 21% Protestant) while 71% of Koreans in America are Christians (61% Protestant + 10% Catholic). Meanwhile only 31% of Chinese and 18% of Indians in America are Christians.

    It shouldn't come as a surprise then that Koreans and Filipinos are also the most well-represented in the U.S. armed forces among Asians, the former in the army officer corps and the latter in the Navy. I don't know what the figures are these days, but at one point in the recent past, a sizable majority of all "Asian" cadets at West Point were Korean and a Korean surname was typically the modal surname in each class (more Kim's than Smith's). And as was often the case with Koreans, even the parents of these Korean-American cadets were super gung-ho and hardcore about West Point, and organized themselves into a well-known booster organization.

    In any case, note that religion is robustly correlated to voting patterns among Asians (as is the case with whites):

    https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2012/07/overview18.png


    It was this fool’s hope in the halcyon days of 2016 that an America First populism could go some way in uniting Old Americans–red, white, and black–in a political coalition putting the interests of American citizens ahead of non-citizens. Many American Indians may have been open to the idea, but black Americans were not.
     
    I could have told you that, AE. Certain Asian and Hispanic groups - namely Filipinos, Koreans, and Cubans - were always far likely to vote for a rightist party/candidate than blacks, not least because most blacks are oppositional in culture to the white majority. They don't vote "rationally" ("Mass immigration is bad for us blacks, because it enlarges the lower end workforce!").

    However, I should point out that it's not all roses and gravy even with these Asian and Hispanic groups. Here are some reasons for pessimism:

    1. Younger Asians and Hispanics tend to be much more liberal than their parents, and this is undoubtedly powered by academia. The younger ones are assimilating all right, but now they are assimilating into the mainstream leftism and woke-ism.

    2. Asians intermarry at high rates with whites, and this has always helped with their assimilation (and pro-white sentiments). However, their intermarriage rates are declining as Asian population has increased.

    3. Cubans used to be somewhat unusual in that they clustered with some Asians (Filipinos, Koreans, and Vietnamese) in having high assimilation. However, the last Manhattan Institute study on assimilation shows that they were the only group to experience a dramatic drop in assimilation in its long-running study. The more recent cohorts of Cubans are little different from other Hispanic migrants (poorly educated and less able to assimilate).

    4. Filipinos are the only educationally downwardly mobile Asian group in America. Fewer American-born Filipinos have college degrees than foreign-born Filipinos. This may or may not be beneficial for the right politically, but it is not a positive economic and social trend for Filipino immigration (and for the country).

    5. The Asian group with the highest rate of retention of birth religion is... Hindus who have the lowest rate of right-leaning party identification (9 Rep vs. 72 Dem).

    6. And speaking of Indians, they are the fastest growing Asian group in the U.S. 20-30 years ago, they were a tiny fraction of "Asians" in America. Today, they are not only 20-25% of all Asians in America, they are also the richest, the most vocal, the least assimilated, and the highest left-leaning party ID Asians with the lowest intermarriage rates with whites, and their demographic heft (let alone cultural, political, and economic salience) is only increasing. In contrast, those identifying as Koreans have decreased in absolute number (not just in percentage terms) between the last two censuses.

    Indeed, one of the most salient trends about Asians in America over the past 20 years has been the rise of Indians - whom some call the New Jews - and the declining salience of Asian groups such as Koreans, often called the Ulster Irish of Asia. Notwithstanding AE's usual (and traditional) color coding, "Asians" in America are becoming increasingly brown, not yellow.

    Now, I don't mean to be entirely pessimistic and negative here. The fact is that Asians in America are still malleable, politically and culturally. They have the weakest party ID, for example. As such, they are far more "gettable" for a rightist party than blacks and most Hispanics. Nonetheless, several long-term trends I elaborated above are likely to make that more difficult, and time is running out as the more leftist young cohorts come of age.

    Replies: @Vergissmeinnicht, @Twinkie, @SIMP simp, @Wyatt, @cynthia curran, @techvet

    , @ariel
    @Vergissmeinnicht

    most Argentinians, Chileans and Uruguayans in the US are white , but they represent only about 1% of hispanic voters ,most South americans voters are Colombians or Venezuelans

    , @Not Only Wrathful
    @Vergissmeinnicht


    I feel the atheist/agnostic/deist/etc. vote is not so Democrat if we could separate Jews from the rest.
     
    Surely it is the other way around. The Jewish vote would be strongly Republican were one to seperate out the atheists.

    Replies: @Anon

  2. Does the CCES allow searching by nativity generation? My impression is that Mexicans with grandparents born in the US are more Republican but I haven’t been able to find evidence and the GSS sample size is too small.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @t

    It does not.

  3. @Vergissmeinnicht
    I'm surprised Central America votes more Republican than South America. South America has countries with lots of Whites (Argentina, Uruguay; to lesser extent: Brazil, Colombia) and I'd suppose these South American (quasi-)Whites would want the USA to be different from the countries they came from (read: a free(r) market)… I mean, wasn't due to that they frickin' came to America, anyway‽
    .
    .
    .
    P.S.: I posted the following in the previous 'Audacious Epigone' article, but it's buried there where no-one can see it, therefore I'll post it again:

    Apparently, half of Jews are atheist (or what-not) – this is like 1% of the American population! Can we have stats of how Jewish atheists/agnostics vote vs. atheistic/agnostic White gentiles vote?

    I feel the atheist/agnostic/deist/etc. vote is not so Democrat if we could separate Jews from the rest.
     

    Replies: @Twinkie, @ariel, @Not Only Wrathful

    I’m surprised Central America votes more Republican than South America. South America has countries with lots of Whites

    I said this before and I will say it again. Race matters a lot, but it’s not everything. Ethno-cultural factors (including, powerfully, religion) can play robust roles in voting behavior. I’ve written numerous comments about this on Unz.

    Cubans and Filipinos, among Hispanics and Asians respectively, are generally considered to be the most assimilated into the American way of life and so they, like white Americans, exhibit a great deal of political diversity among their ranks.

    I’ve linked to this before, but here goes again:

    Koreans and Filipinos are considerably more likely to be Christian than Asians of other ancestries living in the US.

    See these figures:
    89% of Filipinos in America are Christian (65% Catholic + 21% Protestant) while 71% of Koreans in America are Christians (61% Protestant + 10% Catholic). Meanwhile only 31% of Chinese and 18% of Indians in America are Christians.

    It shouldn’t come as a surprise then that Koreans and Filipinos are also the most well-represented in the U.S. armed forces among Asians, the former in the army officer corps and the latter in the Navy. I don’t know what the figures are these days, but at one point in the recent past, a sizable majority of all “Asian” cadets at West Point were Korean and a Korean surname was typically the modal surname in each class (more Kim’s than Smith’s). And as was often the case with Koreans, even the parents of these Korean-American cadets were super gung-ho and hardcore about West Point, and organized themselves into a well-known booster organization.

    In any case, note that religion is robustly correlated to voting patterns among Asians (as is the case with whites):

    It was this fool’s hope in the halcyon days of 2016 that an America First populism could go some way in uniting Old Americans–red, white, and black–in a political coalition putting the interests of American citizens ahead of non-citizens. Many American Indians may have been open to the idea, but black Americans were not.

    I could have told you that, AE. Certain Asian and Hispanic groups – namely Filipinos, Koreans, and Cubans – were always far likely to vote for a rightist party/candidate than blacks, not least because most blacks are oppositional in culture to the white majority. They don’t vote “rationally” (“Mass immigration is bad for us blacks, because it enlarges the lower end workforce!”).

    However, I should point out that it’s not all roses and gravy even with these Asian and Hispanic groups. Here are some reasons for pessimism:

    1. Younger Asians and Hispanics tend to be much more liberal than their parents, and this is undoubtedly powered by academia. The younger ones are assimilating all right, but now they are assimilating into the mainstream leftism and woke-ism.

    2. Asians intermarry at high rates with whites, and this has always helped with their assimilation (and pro-white sentiments). However, their intermarriage rates are declining as Asian population has increased.

    3. Cubans used to be somewhat unusual in that they clustered with some Asians (Filipinos, Koreans, and Vietnamese) in having high assimilation. However, the last Manhattan Institute study on assimilation shows that they were the only group to experience a dramatic drop in assimilation in its long-running study. The more recent cohorts of Cubans are little different from other Hispanic migrants (poorly educated and less able to assimilate).

    4. Filipinos are the only educationally downwardly mobile Asian group in America. Fewer American-born Filipinos have college degrees than foreign-born Filipinos. This may or may not be beneficial for the right politically, but it is not a positive economic and social trend for Filipino immigration (and for the country).

    5. The Asian group with the highest rate of retention of birth religion is… Hindus who have the lowest rate of right-leaning party identification (9 Rep vs. 72 Dem).

    6. And speaking of Indians, they are the fastest growing Asian group in the U.S. 20-30 years ago, they were a tiny fraction of “Asians” in America. Today, they are not only 20-25% of all Asians in America, they are also the richest, the most vocal, the least assimilated, and the highest left-leaning party ID Asians with the lowest intermarriage rates with whites, and their demographic heft (let alone cultural, political, and economic salience) is only increasing. In contrast, those identifying as Koreans have decreased in absolute number (not just in percentage terms) between the last two censuses.

    Indeed, one of the most salient trends about Asians in America over the past 20 years has been the rise of Indians – whom some call the New Jews – and the declining salience of Asian groups such as Koreans, often called the Ulster Irish of Asia. Notwithstanding AE’s usual (and traditional) color coding, “Asians” in America are becoming increasingly brown, not yellow.

    Now, I don’t mean to be entirely pessimistic and negative here. The fact is that Asians in America are still malleable, politically and culturally. They have the weakest party ID, for example. As such, they are far more “gettable” for a rightist party than blacks and most Hispanics. Nonetheless, several long-term trends I elaborated above are likely to make that more difficult, and time is running out as the more leftist young cohorts come of age.

    • Replies: @Vergissmeinnicht
    @Twinkie

    Indeed: It does make tons of sense that Koreans and Filipinos, being more Christian, would vote more for the GOP than the Japanese or Chinese.

    Yeah, I read that 4th-generation Cubans prefer to call themselves Hispanic or Latino rather than White, in contrast to the previous generations. (can't find where I read it though, I'm sorry.)

    Now I see why Central Americans voted Republican more than South Americans: Cubans are Central Americans! D'oh. "Epic Fail" from my part. My bad.


    5. The Asian group with the highest rate of retention of birth religion is… Hindus who have the lowest rate of right-leaning party identification (9 Rep vs. 72 Dem).
     
    Huh‽ According to this article 47% of Indians voted GOP! (Yup, I do realise 'Indian' and 'Hindu' aren't exact the same thing.)

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Twinkie, @Cloudbuster

    , @Twinkie
    @Twinkie

    By the way, this is the first link in my first comment (#2), which wouldn't show:

    https://siddiqueblogs.weebly.com/uploads/4/0/2/9/40298843/938237969.gif

    Replies: @Cloudbuster

    , @SIMP simp
    @Twinkie

    I wonder if the number of korean immigrants is going down. With high economic growth and low fertility SK has become a magnet for immigrants itself, but a country can be both, like Poland.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Twinkie

    , @Wyatt
    @Twinkie

    Fun fact! Studies of the Y-chromosomal Adam placed Indians as most closely related to Africans. In their search, they found a man who was a dead ringer for some East African, but was definitely Indian.

    Aren't genetic studies grand?

    , @cynthia curran
    @Twinkie

    South Korea is a less poor country than India. Engineers or computer programmers make more money in South Korea than India, so Koreans don't come to the US as much.

    , @techvet
    @Twinkie


    6. And speaking of Indians, they are the fastest growing Asian group in the U.S. 20-30 years ago, they were a tiny fraction of “Asians” in America. Today, they are not only 20-25% of all Asians in America, they are also the richest, the most vocal, the least assimilated, and the highest left-leaning party ID Asians with the lowest intermarriage rates with whites, and their demographic heft (let alone cultural, political, and economic salience) is only increasing. In contrast, those identifying as Koreans have decreased in absolute number (not just in percentage terms) between the last two censuses.
     
    the making of another hostile upper crust right there. I work in tech, I know quite something abt them. I look forward to our new overlords with dread and disgust. replacing the ashkenaz with upper crust hindus will be the final nail in the WASP coffin
  4. @Twinkie
    @Vergissmeinnicht


    I’m surprised Central America votes more Republican than South America. South America has countries with lots of Whites
     
    I said this before and I will say it again. Race matters a lot, but it's not everything. Ethno-cultural factors (including, powerfully, religion) can play robust roles in voting behavior. I've written numerous comments about this on Unz.

    Cubans and Filipinos, among Hispanics and Asians respectively, are generally considered to be the most assimilated into the American way of life and so they, like white Americans, exhibit a great deal of political diversity among their ranks.
     
    I've linked to this before, but here goes again:

    https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2816a3fb8063b5f5816e561b0303bea4.webp


    Koreans and Filipinos are considerably more likely to be Christian than Asians of other ancestries living in the US.
     
    See these figures:

    https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2012/07/overview3.png
    89% of Filipinos in America are Christian (65% Catholic + 21% Protestant) while 71% of Koreans in America are Christians (61% Protestant + 10% Catholic). Meanwhile only 31% of Chinese and 18% of Indians in America are Christians.

    It shouldn't come as a surprise then that Koreans and Filipinos are also the most well-represented in the U.S. armed forces among Asians, the former in the army officer corps and the latter in the Navy. I don't know what the figures are these days, but at one point in the recent past, a sizable majority of all "Asian" cadets at West Point were Korean and a Korean surname was typically the modal surname in each class (more Kim's than Smith's). And as was often the case with Koreans, even the parents of these Korean-American cadets were super gung-ho and hardcore about West Point, and organized themselves into a well-known booster organization.

    In any case, note that religion is robustly correlated to voting patterns among Asians (as is the case with whites):

    https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2012/07/overview18.png


    It was this fool’s hope in the halcyon days of 2016 that an America First populism could go some way in uniting Old Americans–red, white, and black–in a political coalition putting the interests of American citizens ahead of non-citizens. Many American Indians may have been open to the idea, but black Americans were not.
     
    I could have told you that, AE. Certain Asian and Hispanic groups - namely Filipinos, Koreans, and Cubans - were always far likely to vote for a rightist party/candidate than blacks, not least because most blacks are oppositional in culture to the white majority. They don't vote "rationally" ("Mass immigration is bad for us blacks, because it enlarges the lower end workforce!").

    However, I should point out that it's not all roses and gravy even with these Asian and Hispanic groups. Here are some reasons for pessimism:

    1. Younger Asians and Hispanics tend to be much more liberal than their parents, and this is undoubtedly powered by academia. The younger ones are assimilating all right, but now they are assimilating into the mainstream leftism and woke-ism.

    2. Asians intermarry at high rates with whites, and this has always helped with their assimilation (and pro-white sentiments). However, their intermarriage rates are declining as Asian population has increased.

    3. Cubans used to be somewhat unusual in that they clustered with some Asians (Filipinos, Koreans, and Vietnamese) in having high assimilation. However, the last Manhattan Institute study on assimilation shows that they were the only group to experience a dramatic drop in assimilation in its long-running study. The more recent cohorts of Cubans are little different from other Hispanic migrants (poorly educated and less able to assimilate).

    4. Filipinos are the only educationally downwardly mobile Asian group in America. Fewer American-born Filipinos have college degrees than foreign-born Filipinos. This may or may not be beneficial for the right politically, but it is not a positive economic and social trend for Filipino immigration (and for the country).

    5. The Asian group with the highest rate of retention of birth religion is... Hindus who have the lowest rate of right-leaning party identification (9 Rep vs. 72 Dem).

    6. And speaking of Indians, they are the fastest growing Asian group in the U.S. 20-30 years ago, they were a tiny fraction of "Asians" in America. Today, they are not only 20-25% of all Asians in America, they are also the richest, the most vocal, the least assimilated, and the highest left-leaning party ID Asians with the lowest intermarriage rates with whites, and their demographic heft (let alone cultural, political, and economic salience) is only increasing. In contrast, those identifying as Koreans have decreased in absolute number (not just in percentage terms) between the last two censuses.

    Indeed, one of the most salient trends about Asians in America over the past 20 years has been the rise of Indians - whom some call the New Jews - and the declining salience of Asian groups such as Koreans, often called the Ulster Irish of Asia. Notwithstanding AE's usual (and traditional) color coding, "Asians" in America are becoming increasingly brown, not yellow.

    Now, I don't mean to be entirely pessimistic and negative here. The fact is that Asians in America are still malleable, politically and culturally. They have the weakest party ID, for example. As such, they are far more "gettable" for a rightist party than blacks and most Hispanics. Nonetheless, several long-term trends I elaborated above are likely to make that more difficult, and time is running out as the more leftist young cohorts come of age.

    Replies: @Vergissmeinnicht, @Twinkie, @SIMP simp, @Wyatt, @cynthia curran, @techvet

    Indeed: It does make tons of sense that Koreans and Filipinos, being more Christian, would vote more for the GOP than the Japanese or Chinese.

    Yeah, I read that 4th-generation Cubans prefer to call themselves Hispanic or Latino rather than White, in contrast to the previous generations. (can’t find where I read it though, I’m sorry.)

    Now I see why Central Americans voted Republican more than South Americans: Cubans are Central Americans! D’oh. “Epic Fail” from my part. My bad.

    5. The Asian group with the highest rate of retention of birth religion is… Hindus who have the lowest rate of right-leaning party identification (9 Rep vs. 72 Dem).

    Huh‽ According to this article 47% of Indians voted GOP! (Yup, I do realise ‘Indian’ and ‘Hindu’ aren’t exact the same thing.)

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Vergissmeinnicht

    I wonder how rates of Christianity among Chinese would break down amongst the specific subgroup: I'm willing to bet the Christian contingent is heavily Taiwanese. Also, Christianity is relatively popular among ethnic Chinese in Southeast Asia. Part of that is because of the religion's appeal to an outsider minority in a region where ethnicity and faith are a lot more intertwined than in East Asia, but then there's Singapore... I'd also be interested in hearing more about the history of that. Apparently, the bad blood that resulted from the Taiping Rebellion lasted quite a while among diaspora Chinese in places like Malaysia, and I wonder if that meant openness to Christianity broke down on communal lines.

    The Japanese, for their part, have been here a long time, much like the original wave of Cantonese laborers in the 19th Century. They are heavily Americanized as a result. And they aren't that numerous. Brazil's the one with the big Japanese immigrant community.

    >Yeah, I read that 4th-generation Cubans prefer to call themselves Hispanic or Latino rather than White, in contrast to the previous generations.

    Yeah, it's almost as if our elite wants to promote balkanization... ;)

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Twinkie
    @Vergissmeinnicht


    Huh‽ According to this article 47% of Indians voted GOP! (Yup, I do realise ‘Indian’ and ‘Hindu’ aren’t exact the same thing.)
     
    First of all, you misread that. 47% of American Indians voted for Trump, you know, feather, not dots. Only 30% of Indians (dots from the subcontinent) voted for Trump, which is the lowest among the five Asian groups listed in AE's post.

    And note that the figures I cited - 9% of Hindus identify as Republicans while 72% identify as Democrats - are from a survey of 2012. Keep in mind about 51% of Indians in America are Hindus while 18% are Christian. Obviously Indians in America are much more Christian than Indians in Indian on average (this is similar to many other groups, e.g. Koreans in America are more Christian than Koreans in Korea, Arabs - thanks for the Lebanese - in America are far more Christian than Arabs in the Middle East, etc.). Also, Christian Indians are more likely to vote for the GOP than Hindu Indians.

    So, some of the disparity between the 2016 presidential numbers and the 2012 party ID numbers are 1) because they measure different things, i.e. voting for a specific candidate vs. affinity for a political party, 2) because of different time periods (2016 vs. 2021), and 3) perhaps, because Trump courted Indian voters and did better with them than the generic party ID would indicate.

    Whatever the case may be, the broad trends are clear Indians - Hindus in particular - are the least Republican and the most Democratic of the Asian groups in America.
    , @Cloudbuster
    @Vergissmeinnicht

    Yeah, I read that 4th-generation Cubans prefer to call themselves Hispanic or Latino rather than White, in contrast to the previous generations. (can’t find where I read it though, I’m sorry.)

    Given all the official preference given to Hispanics, why would anyone who has a choice check the White box? Metaphorically, anyway: on most official documents I've seen, Hispanics have to pick a race and then identify as ethnically Hispanic in a separate question.

    Identifying as non-Hispanic White gets you nothing.

  5. @Vergissmeinnicht
    @Twinkie

    Indeed: It does make tons of sense that Koreans and Filipinos, being more Christian, would vote more for the GOP than the Japanese or Chinese.

    Yeah, I read that 4th-generation Cubans prefer to call themselves Hispanic or Latino rather than White, in contrast to the previous generations. (can't find where I read it though, I'm sorry.)

    Now I see why Central Americans voted Republican more than South Americans: Cubans are Central Americans! D'oh. "Epic Fail" from my part. My bad.


    5. The Asian group with the highest rate of retention of birth religion is… Hindus who have the lowest rate of right-leaning party identification (9 Rep vs. 72 Dem).
     
    Huh‽ According to this article 47% of Indians voted GOP! (Yup, I do realise 'Indian' and 'Hindu' aren't exact the same thing.)

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Twinkie, @Cloudbuster

    I wonder how rates of Christianity among Chinese would break down amongst the specific subgroup: I’m willing to bet the Christian contingent is heavily Taiwanese. Also, Christianity is relatively popular among ethnic Chinese in Southeast Asia. Part of that is because of the religion’s appeal to an outsider minority in a region where ethnicity and faith are a lot more intertwined than in East Asia, but then there’s Singapore… I’d also be interested in hearing more about the history of that. Apparently, the bad blood that resulted from the Taiping Rebellion lasted quite a while among diaspora Chinese in places like Malaysia, and I wonder if that meant openness to Christianity broke down on communal lines.

    The Japanese, for their part, have been here a long time, much like the original wave of Cantonese laborers in the 19th Century. They are heavily Americanized as a result. And they aren’t that numerous. Brazil’s the one with the big Japanese immigrant community.

    >Yeah, I read that 4th-generation Cubans prefer to call themselves Hispanic or Latino rather than White, in contrast to the previous generations.

    Yeah, it’s almost as if our elite wants to promote balkanization… 😉

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @nebulafox


    I’m willing to bet the Christian contingent is heavily Taiwanese. Also, Christianity is relatively popular among ethnic Chinese in Southeast Asia.
     
    I would not take that bet as I agree with you. On the other hand, Christianity IS growing rapidly in Mainland China. And as I noted, Asians in America tend to be much more Christian than their counterparts in Asia, and I believe the same pattern holds for the Chinese even if they came from the Mainland.

    The Japanese, for their part, have been here a long time, much like the original wave of Cantonese laborers in the 19th Century. They are heavily Americanized as a result. And they aren’t that numerous.
     
    Japanese in America are heavily intermixed and are no longer one of the major Asian groups (Chinese, Indians, Filipinos, Vietnamese, and Koreans are the Big Five, with the last rapidly declining in number, following the Japanese pattern of heavy intermixture with whites and the descendants no longer identifying as Asian).

    The difference is that the Japanese arrived as non-Christians, are heavily concentrated in Hawaii and California still, and likely intermixed with similarly religiously "unaffiliated" whites, which perhaps explains their relatively smaller Christian fraction. Koreans in America are much more Christian to begin with (and fervently so, of the 61% who are Protestants, 40% are evangelicals while 21% are mainline), are more dispersed geographically (lots in CA, but also in NY, IL, WA, VA, TX, etc.), and likely intermarry those of similar religious backgrounds, and are thus more likely to retain their high Christian fraction (at least for the foreseeable future).


    Yeah, it’s almost as if our elite wants to promote balkanization…
     
    You know it's true.

    They promote racial balkanization while also fostering pan-ethn0-racial identities ("Asian-American" instead of those of "Chinese," "Korean," or "Indian" origin, "Hispanic" instead of "Cuban," "Mexican," "Puerto Rican," etc.).

    They don't want some of these groups to intermarry with generic whites and become like the latter. They want these people to harbor a resentment of the white majority and become useful cannon fodder for Elite-Americans.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Achmed E. Newman, @Anon

  6. @Vergissmeinnicht
    @Twinkie

    Indeed: It does make tons of sense that Koreans and Filipinos, being more Christian, would vote more for the GOP than the Japanese or Chinese.

    Yeah, I read that 4th-generation Cubans prefer to call themselves Hispanic or Latino rather than White, in contrast to the previous generations. (can't find where I read it though, I'm sorry.)

    Now I see why Central Americans voted Republican more than South Americans: Cubans are Central Americans! D'oh. "Epic Fail" from my part. My bad.


    5. The Asian group with the highest rate of retention of birth religion is… Hindus who have the lowest rate of right-leaning party identification (9 Rep vs. 72 Dem).
     
    Huh‽ According to this article 47% of Indians voted GOP! (Yup, I do realise 'Indian' and 'Hindu' aren't exact the same thing.)

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Twinkie, @Cloudbuster

    Huh‽ According to this article 47% of Indians voted GOP! (Yup, I do realise ‘Indian’ and ‘Hindu’ aren’t exact the same thing.)

    First of all, you misread that. 47% of American Indians voted for Trump, you know, feather, not dots. Only 30% of Indians (dots from the subcontinent) voted for Trump, which is the lowest among the five Asian groups listed in AE’s post.

    And note that the figures I cited – 9% of Hindus identify as Republicans while 72% identify as Democrats – are from a survey of 2012. Keep in mind about 51% of Indians in America are Hindus while 18% are Christian. Obviously Indians in America are much more Christian than Indians in Indian on average (this is similar to many other groups, e.g. Koreans in America are more Christian than Koreans in Korea, Arabs – thanks for the Lebanese – in America are far more Christian than Arabs in the Middle East, etc.). Also, Christian Indians are more likely to vote for the GOP than Hindu Indians.

    So, some of the disparity between the 2016 presidential numbers and the 2012 party ID numbers are 1) because they measure different things, i.e. voting for a specific candidate vs. affinity for a political party, 2) because of different time periods (2016 vs. 2021), and 3) perhaps, because Trump courted Indian voters and did better with them than the generic party ID would indicate.

    Whatever the case may be, the broad trends are clear Indians – Hindus in particular – are the least Republican and the most Democratic of the Asian groups in America.

  7. @nebulafox
    @Vergissmeinnicht

    I wonder how rates of Christianity among Chinese would break down amongst the specific subgroup: I'm willing to bet the Christian contingent is heavily Taiwanese. Also, Christianity is relatively popular among ethnic Chinese in Southeast Asia. Part of that is because of the religion's appeal to an outsider minority in a region where ethnicity and faith are a lot more intertwined than in East Asia, but then there's Singapore... I'd also be interested in hearing more about the history of that. Apparently, the bad blood that resulted from the Taiping Rebellion lasted quite a while among diaspora Chinese in places like Malaysia, and I wonder if that meant openness to Christianity broke down on communal lines.

    The Japanese, for their part, have been here a long time, much like the original wave of Cantonese laborers in the 19th Century. They are heavily Americanized as a result. And they aren't that numerous. Brazil's the one with the big Japanese immigrant community.

    >Yeah, I read that 4th-generation Cubans prefer to call themselves Hispanic or Latino rather than White, in contrast to the previous generations.

    Yeah, it's almost as if our elite wants to promote balkanization... ;)

    Replies: @Twinkie

    I’m willing to bet the Christian contingent is heavily Taiwanese. Also, Christianity is relatively popular among ethnic Chinese in Southeast Asia.

    I would not take that bet as I agree with you. On the other hand, Christianity IS growing rapidly in Mainland China. And as I noted, Asians in America tend to be much more Christian than their counterparts in Asia, and I believe the same pattern holds for the Chinese even if they came from the Mainland.

    The Japanese, for their part, have been here a long time, much like the original wave of Cantonese laborers in the 19th Century. They are heavily Americanized as a result. And they aren’t that numerous.

    Japanese in America are heavily intermixed and are no longer one of the major Asian groups (Chinese, Indians, Filipinos, Vietnamese, and Koreans are the Big Five, with the last rapidly declining in number, following the Japanese pattern of heavy intermixture with whites and the descendants no longer identifying as Asian).

    The difference is that the Japanese arrived as non-Christians, are heavily concentrated in Hawaii and California still, and likely intermixed with similarly religiously “unaffiliated” whites, which perhaps explains their relatively smaller Christian fraction. Koreans in America are much more Christian to begin with (and fervently so, of the 61% who are Protestants, 40% are evangelicals while 21% are mainline), are more dispersed geographically (lots in CA, but also in NY, IL, WA, VA, TX, etc.), and likely intermarry those of similar religious backgrounds, and are thus more likely to retain their high Christian fraction (at least for the foreseeable future).

    Yeah, it’s almost as if our elite wants to promote balkanization…

    You know it’s true.

    They promote racial balkanization while also fostering pan-ethn0-racial identities (“Asian-American” instead of those of “Chinese,” “Korean,” or “Indian” origin, “Hispanic” instead of “Cuban,” “Mexican,” “Puerto Rican,” etc.).

    They don’t want some of these groups to intermarry with generic whites and become like the latter. They want these people to harbor a resentment of the white majority and become useful cannon fodder for Elite-Americans.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Twinkie

    >On the other hand, Christianity IS growing rapidly in Mainland China.

    How do you see that working out long term? Serious question.

    >You know it’s true.

    Vividly. "Balkanization" is not an abstract concept for me.

    >They don’t want some of these groups to intermarry with generic whites and become like the latter. They want these people to harbor a resentment of the white majority and become useful cannon fodder for Elite-Americans.

    Meanwhile, elite Americans become more and more a country unto themselves, with all the feelings of obligation toward other Americans that would follow from that. The numerically bloated gentry class remains engaged in fanatical competition to gain entry or at least avoid declassment for their mediocre children. Bit silly since electricians can still make good money outside big cities, but herd logic can be extremely powerful, and the economy has shifted to massively favor an increasingly neo-feudal service sector.

    An Ottoman millet system with Brazilian characteristics... in the context of socioeconomic decline and structural rot. I don't see it working smoothly for long, but most of our governing class is over 70, so apres moi, le deluge works just fine for them. And government favored big corporations can easily afford the South Africa/Brazil style privatized security they need as the police get attacked. Some might go significantly further.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Twinkie

    First, thank you got all the great pie charts and such, Twinkie. Christianity has been growing in mainland China, but then the current government is getting repressive again. There are many Christians there who can't meet in real churches and that sort of thing. Sure, you've got zoom and the internet, but when the government there clamps down on that ...?

    That's not the subject anyway, as, of course, the post is about how they vote as immigrants. I know multiple Chinese people that are Christians here. They hate the 2nd part of the Globohomo agenda, but may not even care about the 1st part. Their Christianity leads them to vote socially conservative. That does mean for Trump, which, if you would look back 30 years, you think that it would have be downright ludicrous for Trump to get the votes of social conservatives. (Remember Gart Hart, with the picture of him on his boat with the mistress - big deal back then - now Trump's this playboy, but we just have all let that slide, for what I thought would be a guy who could really help the country.)

    The biggest point you made is that huge numbers of people coming at the same time, often to the same places, DO NOT ASSIMILATE. That should be a no-brainer for anyone with common sense. I'd be the same way if I moved to Mexico. If I'm the only gringo around, I will try many things their way, and try not to be the "yeah, but back in Pennsylvania, we did it better ..." Were I to live in an ex-pat gringo community, I'd be keeping my American attitude, eating American food as much as is possible, etc.

    .

    BTW, one thing Chinese Christians can be convinced about is how their own land is becoming Revelation "Mark-o-the-Beast" territory very quickly. Social credit scores were one thing, health scores another, but this cashless phone-payments thing is going gangbusters. They are completely screwed, if you ask me.

    No, I'm not asking you, Godfree Roberts, Tor, Dan, dDenk, Bluedog, or any of the China-uber-alles freaks that freakquent this site!

    Replies: @dfordoom

    , @Anon
    @Twinkie


    They don’t want some of these groups to intermarry with generic whites and become like the latter.
     
    I never thought about it this way, but that makes sense. Of course, I don't think that an Asian should have to marry someone white or look white to be considered "American".

    I'm a 4th generation Japanese-American and a large proportion of my extended family is ethnically mixed and indeed look "White", despite me being "Asian". It was the generation before mine that engaged in "miscegenation" and their impetus for marriage was far less mercenary that what I see in, say, a lot of Chinese-Jewish pairings that I see in New York. It was just a bunch of Japanese and Caucasians that happened to be living in the same area that really did socialize and interact in a race-blind manner. It really was a beautiful thing. However, it appears in my generation (I'm a millennial) individuals began, if subconsciously, socializing in a way that started to reflect the "Asian"/"White" dichotomy.

    The result has been horrific. Not only has this created fault lines between the "White" sides of my family and the "Asian" sides, but it has also negated the assimilation of the latter. Because Japanese-Americans are refused entry into the "White" category, they therefore have to adopt and socialize within the majority group of the "Asian" category, which will almost always be Chinese (we don't really socialize with Indians). It has resulted in a situation in which the Japanese-Americans receive tremendous amounts of pressure to "de-assimilate", and forget what we've learned since we got here, and "act like the people that look like us". Of course, as you know perhaps better than I, "Asian-American" has no historical antecedents and means nothing to anyone outside the West. Nor do most white people I encounter know anything about WASP culture. I used to think that becoming more acquainted with traditional WASP culture would mean a thing or two about being American.

    My family has fought in every war since WW2 (Korean, Vietnam, Iraq), and yet according to the modern American racial taxonomy we are less American than the average Jewish-American in New York who hasn't lost a drop of sweat, much less blood for this country and instead tries to undermine the culture of those that were before he. That's why the "Asians are the new Jews" never really resonated with me: we've been here just as long.
  8. @Twinkie
    @Vergissmeinnicht


    I’m surprised Central America votes more Republican than South America. South America has countries with lots of Whites
     
    I said this before and I will say it again. Race matters a lot, but it's not everything. Ethno-cultural factors (including, powerfully, religion) can play robust roles in voting behavior. I've written numerous comments about this on Unz.

    Cubans and Filipinos, among Hispanics and Asians respectively, are generally considered to be the most assimilated into the American way of life and so they, like white Americans, exhibit a great deal of political diversity among their ranks.
     
    I've linked to this before, but here goes again:

    https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2816a3fb8063b5f5816e561b0303bea4.webp


    Koreans and Filipinos are considerably more likely to be Christian than Asians of other ancestries living in the US.
     
    See these figures:

    https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2012/07/overview3.png
    89% of Filipinos in America are Christian (65% Catholic + 21% Protestant) while 71% of Koreans in America are Christians (61% Protestant + 10% Catholic). Meanwhile only 31% of Chinese and 18% of Indians in America are Christians.

    It shouldn't come as a surprise then that Koreans and Filipinos are also the most well-represented in the U.S. armed forces among Asians, the former in the army officer corps and the latter in the Navy. I don't know what the figures are these days, but at one point in the recent past, a sizable majority of all "Asian" cadets at West Point were Korean and a Korean surname was typically the modal surname in each class (more Kim's than Smith's). And as was often the case with Koreans, even the parents of these Korean-American cadets were super gung-ho and hardcore about West Point, and organized themselves into a well-known booster organization.

    In any case, note that religion is robustly correlated to voting patterns among Asians (as is the case with whites):

    https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2012/07/overview18.png


    It was this fool’s hope in the halcyon days of 2016 that an America First populism could go some way in uniting Old Americans–red, white, and black–in a political coalition putting the interests of American citizens ahead of non-citizens. Many American Indians may have been open to the idea, but black Americans were not.
     
    I could have told you that, AE. Certain Asian and Hispanic groups - namely Filipinos, Koreans, and Cubans - were always far likely to vote for a rightist party/candidate than blacks, not least because most blacks are oppositional in culture to the white majority. They don't vote "rationally" ("Mass immigration is bad for us blacks, because it enlarges the lower end workforce!").

    However, I should point out that it's not all roses and gravy even with these Asian and Hispanic groups. Here are some reasons for pessimism:

    1. Younger Asians and Hispanics tend to be much more liberal than their parents, and this is undoubtedly powered by academia. The younger ones are assimilating all right, but now they are assimilating into the mainstream leftism and woke-ism.

    2. Asians intermarry at high rates with whites, and this has always helped with their assimilation (and pro-white sentiments). However, their intermarriage rates are declining as Asian population has increased.

    3. Cubans used to be somewhat unusual in that they clustered with some Asians (Filipinos, Koreans, and Vietnamese) in having high assimilation. However, the last Manhattan Institute study on assimilation shows that they were the only group to experience a dramatic drop in assimilation in its long-running study. The more recent cohorts of Cubans are little different from other Hispanic migrants (poorly educated and less able to assimilate).

    4. Filipinos are the only educationally downwardly mobile Asian group in America. Fewer American-born Filipinos have college degrees than foreign-born Filipinos. This may or may not be beneficial for the right politically, but it is not a positive economic and social trend for Filipino immigration (and for the country).

    5. The Asian group with the highest rate of retention of birth religion is... Hindus who have the lowest rate of right-leaning party identification (9 Rep vs. 72 Dem).

    6. And speaking of Indians, they are the fastest growing Asian group in the U.S. 20-30 years ago, they were a tiny fraction of "Asians" in America. Today, they are not only 20-25% of all Asians in America, they are also the richest, the most vocal, the least assimilated, and the highest left-leaning party ID Asians with the lowest intermarriage rates with whites, and their demographic heft (let alone cultural, political, and economic salience) is only increasing. In contrast, those identifying as Koreans have decreased in absolute number (not just in percentage terms) between the last two censuses.

    Indeed, one of the most salient trends about Asians in America over the past 20 years has been the rise of Indians - whom some call the New Jews - and the declining salience of Asian groups such as Koreans, often called the Ulster Irish of Asia. Notwithstanding AE's usual (and traditional) color coding, "Asians" in America are becoming increasingly brown, not yellow.

    Now, I don't mean to be entirely pessimistic and negative here. The fact is that Asians in America are still malleable, politically and culturally. They have the weakest party ID, for example. As such, they are far more "gettable" for a rightist party than blacks and most Hispanics. Nonetheless, several long-term trends I elaborated above are likely to make that more difficult, and time is running out as the more leftist young cohorts come of age.

    Replies: @Vergissmeinnicht, @Twinkie, @SIMP simp, @Wyatt, @cynthia curran, @techvet

    By the way, this is the first link in my first comment (#2), which wouldn’t show:

    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    @Twinkie

    How is "assimilation index" scored and what is the possible range of scores?

    Replies: @Twinkie

  9. I think anyone getting excited over Chinese Christians should recall that many entrepreneurs converted because Christianity is associated with business success (going to church also provides opportunity to connect with other businessmen).

    It’s true that older East Asians are generally socially conservative, but I doubt that is necessarily true of their offspring; and I doubt that many East Asian immigrants are going join the front lines in any culture war.

  10. @Twinkie
    @nebulafox


    I’m willing to bet the Christian contingent is heavily Taiwanese. Also, Christianity is relatively popular among ethnic Chinese in Southeast Asia.
     
    I would not take that bet as I agree with you. On the other hand, Christianity IS growing rapidly in Mainland China. And as I noted, Asians in America tend to be much more Christian than their counterparts in Asia, and I believe the same pattern holds for the Chinese even if they came from the Mainland.

    The Japanese, for their part, have been here a long time, much like the original wave of Cantonese laborers in the 19th Century. They are heavily Americanized as a result. And they aren’t that numerous.
     
    Japanese in America are heavily intermixed and are no longer one of the major Asian groups (Chinese, Indians, Filipinos, Vietnamese, and Koreans are the Big Five, with the last rapidly declining in number, following the Japanese pattern of heavy intermixture with whites and the descendants no longer identifying as Asian).

    The difference is that the Japanese arrived as non-Christians, are heavily concentrated in Hawaii and California still, and likely intermixed with similarly religiously "unaffiliated" whites, which perhaps explains their relatively smaller Christian fraction. Koreans in America are much more Christian to begin with (and fervently so, of the 61% who are Protestants, 40% are evangelicals while 21% are mainline), are more dispersed geographically (lots in CA, but also in NY, IL, WA, VA, TX, etc.), and likely intermarry those of similar religious backgrounds, and are thus more likely to retain their high Christian fraction (at least for the foreseeable future).


    Yeah, it’s almost as if our elite wants to promote balkanization…
     
    You know it's true.

    They promote racial balkanization while also fostering pan-ethn0-racial identities ("Asian-American" instead of those of "Chinese," "Korean," or "Indian" origin, "Hispanic" instead of "Cuban," "Mexican," "Puerto Rican," etc.).

    They don't want some of these groups to intermarry with generic whites and become like the latter. They want these people to harbor a resentment of the white majority and become useful cannon fodder for Elite-Americans.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Achmed E. Newman, @Anon

    >On the other hand, Christianity IS growing rapidly in Mainland China.

    How do you see that working out long term? Serious question.

    >You know it’s true.

    Vividly. “Balkanization” is not an abstract concept for me.

    >They don’t want some of these groups to intermarry with generic whites and become like the latter. They want these people to harbor a resentment of the white majority and become useful cannon fodder for Elite-Americans.

    Meanwhile, elite Americans become more and more a country unto themselves, with all the feelings of obligation toward other Americans that would follow from that. The numerically bloated gentry class remains engaged in fanatical competition to gain entry or at least avoid declassment for their mediocre children. Bit silly since electricians can still make good money outside big cities, but herd logic can be extremely powerful, and the economy has shifted to massively favor an increasingly neo-feudal service sector.

    An Ottoman millet system with Brazilian characteristics… in the context of socioeconomic decline and structural rot. I don’t see it working smoothly for long, but most of our governing class is over 70, so apres moi, le deluge works just fine for them. And government favored big corporations can easily afford the South Africa/Brazil style privatized security they need as the police get attacked. Some might go significantly further.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @nebulafox


    How do you see that working out long term? Serious question.
     
    I don't have the crystal ball, but given the current tendencies of the Chinese Communist Party, I can speculate.

    First of all, CCP doesn't like to share institutional influence with any other "pole" in China, so I would think that it will continue to discourage Christian evangelization until there is a certain critical mass of Christians there. At that point, it will probably attempt to divide and coopt Christians.

    It will likely deal more gingerly with Christians than it has with the Falung Gong since it's one thing to repress a "strange" cult with few outside adherents, but quite another to do so with a religious group that commands a high degree of sympathy and affinity in the West and elsewhere in the globe. So once there is a critical mass (and I think there will be in not-too-distant future), it will attempt to create dissension among Christians and thereby weaken them as a unified political force. A preview of this has been in play already with Catholics:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_in_China#September_2018_Holy_See%E2%80%93China_Agreement

    September 2018 Holy See–China Agreement
    On 22 September 2018, China and the Vatican signed a historic agreement concerning the appointment of bishops in China.[3] By this agreement the Chinese government also recognizes the pope as head of China's Catholics.[4] China's foreign ministry said in a statement that the agreement also works to maintain communications and to improve relations between both sides.[3] However, it does not establish diplomatic relations between the Vatican and China. The Vatican currently has diplomatic ties to the Republic of China (Taiwan),[3] which the People's Republic of China does not recognize. Vatican spokesman Greg Burke, speaking in Lithuania, described the agreement as "not political but pastoral, allowing the faithful to have bishops who are in communion with Rome but at the same time recognized by Chinese authorities."[40][3] While the agreement states that China will recommend the Bishops before they are appointed by the Pope,[40] it also stipulates that the Pope has authority to veto any Bishop which China recommends.[41] Francis then approved seven bishops who had been appointed by Beijing, after withdrawing church censures against them and also against one recently deceased bishop who had received episcopal consecration without papal approval.[42][43] On 23 September, the state-recognized Catholic Church in China pledged to remain loyal to the Chinese Communist Party.[44] Pope Francis' reflection on the agreement came out in the Message of Pope Francis to the Catholics of China and to the Universal Church on 26 September 2018.[45]

    On 26 October 2018, AsiaNews reported that despite the agreement, the Chinese government decided to continue including the Catholic Church in its religious crackdown and destroyed two Marian shrines, one of which was located in Shanxi and the other located in Guizhou.[46][47]
     
    And a divide-and-conquer strategy will be easier to implement with Protestants since they are already rife with theological and liturgical dissension. Combined with selective favoritism toward those Christian groups and sects that are docile (those subscribing to the so-called prosperity gospel would be the prime candidates), I expect the CCP to do well in managing and minimizing the political heft of Christians as a whole.
  11. @Twinkie
    @Vergissmeinnicht


    I’m surprised Central America votes more Republican than South America. South America has countries with lots of Whites
     
    I said this before and I will say it again. Race matters a lot, but it's not everything. Ethno-cultural factors (including, powerfully, religion) can play robust roles in voting behavior. I've written numerous comments about this on Unz.

    Cubans and Filipinos, among Hispanics and Asians respectively, are generally considered to be the most assimilated into the American way of life and so they, like white Americans, exhibit a great deal of political diversity among their ranks.
     
    I've linked to this before, but here goes again:

    https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2816a3fb8063b5f5816e561b0303bea4.webp


    Koreans and Filipinos are considerably more likely to be Christian than Asians of other ancestries living in the US.
     
    See these figures:

    https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2012/07/overview3.png
    89% of Filipinos in America are Christian (65% Catholic + 21% Protestant) while 71% of Koreans in America are Christians (61% Protestant + 10% Catholic). Meanwhile only 31% of Chinese and 18% of Indians in America are Christians.

    It shouldn't come as a surprise then that Koreans and Filipinos are also the most well-represented in the U.S. armed forces among Asians, the former in the army officer corps and the latter in the Navy. I don't know what the figures are these days, but at one point in the recent past, a sizable majority of all "Asian" cadets at West Point were Korean and a Korean surname was typically the modal surname in each class (more Kim's than Smith's). And as was often the case with Koreans, even the parents of these Korean-American cadets were super gung-ho and hardcore about West Point, and organized themselves into a well-known booster organization.

    In any case, note that religion is robustly correlated to voting patterns among Asians (as is the case with whites):

    https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2012/07/overview18.png


    It was this fool’s hope in the halcyon days of 2016 that an America First populism could go some way in uniting Old Americans–red, white, and black–in a political coalition putting the interests of American citizens ahead of non-citizens. Many American Indians may have been open to the idea, but black Americans were not.
     
    I could have told you that, AE. Certain Asian and Hispanic groups - namely Filipinos, Koreans, and Cubans - were always far likely to vote for a rightist party/candidate than blacks, not least because most blacks are oppositional in culture to the white majority. They don't vote "rationally" ("Mass immigration is bad for us blacks, because it enlarges the lower end workforce!").

    However, I should point out that it's not all roses and gravy even with these Asian and Hispanic groups. Here are some reasons for pessimism:

    1. Younger Asians and Hispanics tend to be much more liberal than their parents, and this is undoubtedly powered by academia. The younger ones are assimilating all right, but now they are assimilating into the mainstream leftism and woke-ism.

    2. Asians intermarry at high rates with whites, and this has always helped with their assimilation (and pro-white sentiments). However, their intermarriage rates are declining as Asian population has increased.

    3. Cubans used to be somewhat unusual in that they clustered with some Asians (Filipinos, Koreans, and Vietnamese) in having high assimilation. However, the last Manhattan Institute study on assimilation shows that they were the only group to experience a dramatic drop in assimilation in its long-running study. The more recent cohorts of Cubans are little different from other Hispanic migrants (poorly educated and less able to assimilate).

    4. Filipinos are the only educationally downwardly mobile Asian group in America. Fewer American-born Filipinos have college degrees than foreign-born Filipinos. This may or may not be beneficial for the right politically, but it is not a positive economic and social trend for Filipino immigration (and for the country).

    5. The Asian group with the highest rate of retention of birth religion is... Hindus who have the lowest rate of right-leaning party identification (9 Rep vs. 72 Dem).

    6. And speaking of Indians, they are the fastest growing Asian group in the U.S. 20-30 years ago, they were a tiny fraction of "Asians" in America. Today, they are not only 20-25% of all Asians in America, they are also the richest, the most vocal, the least assimilated, and the highest left-leaning party ID Asians with the lowest intermarriage rates with whites, and their demographic heft (let alone cultural, political, and economic salience) is only increasing. In contrast, those identifying as Koreans have decreased in absolute number (not just in percentage terms) between the last two censuses.

    Indeed, one of the most salient trends about Asians in America over the past 20 years has been the rise of Indians - whom some call the New Jews - and the declining salience of Asian groups such as Koreans, often called the Ulster Irish of Asia. Notwithstanding AE's usual (and traditional) color coding, "Asians" in America are becoming increasingly brown, not yellow.

    Now, I don't mean to be entirely pessimistic and negative here. The fact is that Asians in America are still malleable, politically and culturally. They have the weakest party ID, for example. As such, they are far more "gettable" for a rightist party than blacks and most Hispanics. Nonetheless, several long-term trends I elaborated above are likely to make that more difficult, and time is running out as the more leftist young cohorts come of age.

    Replies: @Vergissmeinnicht, @Twinkie, @SIMP simp, @Wyatt, @cynthia curran, @techvet

    I wonder if the number of korean immigrants is going down. With high economic growth and low fertility SK has become a magnet for immigrants itself, but a country can be both, like Poland.

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @SIMP simp


    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/76/Korean_immigrants_to_the_United_States.svg/440px-Korean_immigrants_to_the_United_States.svg.png

    How many Koreans returned to Korea from US?

    https://youtu.be/UVPXG5zjF8U

    , @Twinkie
    @SIMP simp


    I wonder if the number of korean immigrants is going down. With high economic growth and low fertility SK has become a magnet for immigrants itself, but a country can be both, like Poland.
     
    "Blinky Bill" already linked to the annual immigration numbers, which show that the peak of immigration to the U.S. was in the 1980's.

    The table below confirms that the peak of the total number was in 2010 and has decline since: https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/korean-immigrants-united-states-2017

    https://www.migrationpolicy.org/sites/default/files/source_images/SPT-Korean_Immigrants-2019-Figure_1_UPDATED.png
  12. @SIMP simp
    @Twinkie

    I wonder if the number of korean immigrants is going down. With high economic growth and low fertility SK has become a magnet for immigrants itself, but a country can be both, like Poland.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Twinkie

    [MORE]

    How many Koreans returned to Korea from US?

    • Thanks: SIMP simp
  13. Democrat wonks are very aware of these voting patterns which is why the block any and all attempts at lowering legal immigration. Immigration is turning us into a one party tyranny run by left wing Democrats and non-whites.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  14. @Twinkie
    @nebulafox


    I’m willing to bet the Christian contingent is heavily Taiwanese. Also, Christianity is relatively popular among ethnic Chinese in Southeast Asia.
     
    I would not take that bet as I agree with you. On the other hand, Christianity IS growing rapidly in Mainland China. And as I noted, Asians in America tend to be much more Christian than their counterparts in Asia, and I believe the same pattern holds for the Chinese even if they came from the Mainland.

    The Japanese, for their part, have been here a long time, much like the original wave of Cantonese laborers in the 19th Century. They are heavily Americanized as a result. And they aren’t that numerous.
     
    Japanese in America are heavily intermixed and are no longer one of the major Asian groups (Chinese, Indians, Filipinos, Vietnamese, and Koreans are the Big Five, with the last rapidly declining in number, following the Japanese pattern of heavy intermixture with whites and the descendants no longer identifying as Asian).

    The difference is that the Japanese arrived as non-Christians, are heavily concentrated in Hawaii and California still, and likely intermixed with similarly religiously "unaffiliated" whites, which perhaps explains their relatively smaller Christian fraction. Koreans in America are much more Christian to begin with (and fervently so, of the 61% who are Protestants, 40% are evangelicals while 21% are mainline), are more dispersed geographically (lots in CA, but also in NY, IL, WA, VA, TX, etc.), and likely intermarry those of similar religious backgrounds, and are thus more likely to retain their high Christian fraction (at least for the foreseeable future).


    Yeah, it’s almost as if our elite wants to promote balkanization…
     
    You know it's true.

    They promote racial balkanization while also fostering pan-ethn0-racial identities ("Asian-American" instead of those of "Chinese," "Korean," or "Indian" origin, "Hispanic" instead of "Cuban," "Mexican," "Puerto Rican," etc.).

    They don't want some of these groups to intermarry with generic whites and become like the latter. They want these people to harbor a resentment of the white majority and become useful cannon fodder for Elite-Americans.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Achmed E. Newman, @Anon

    First, thank you got all the great pie charts and such, Twinkie. Christianity has been growing in mainland China, but then the current government is getting repressive again. There are many Christians there who can’t meet in real churches and that sort of thing. Sure, you’ve got zoom and the internet, but when the government there clamps down on that …?

    That’s not the subject anyway, as, of course, the post is about how they vote as immigrants. I know multiple Chinese people that are Christians here. They hate the 2nd part of the Globohomo agenda, but may not even care about the 1st part. Their Christianity leads them to vote socially conservative. That does mean for Trump, which, if you would look back 30 years, you think that it would have be downright ludicrous for Trump to get the votes of social conservatives. (Remember Gart Hart, with the picture of him on his boat with the mistress – big deal back then – now Trump’s this playboy, but we just have all let that slide, for what I thought would be a guy who could really help the country.)

    The biggest point you made is that huge numbers of people coming at the same time, often to the same places, DO NOT ASSIMILATE. That should be a no-brainer for anyone with common sense. I’d be the same way if I moved to Mexico. If I’m the only gringo around, I will try many things their way, and try not to be the “yeah, but back in Pennsylvania, we did it better …” Were I to live in an ex-pat gringo community, I’d be keeping my American attitude, eating American food as much as is possible, etc.

    .

    BTW, one thing Chinese Christians can be convinced about is how their own land is becoming Revelation “Mark-o-the-Beast” territory very quickly. Social credit scores were one thing, health scores another, but this cashless phone-payments thing is going gangbusters. They are completely screwed, if you ask me.

    No, I’m not asking you, Godfree Roberts, Tor, Dan, dDenk, Bluedog, or any of the China-uber-alles freaks that freakquent this site!

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Christianity has been growing in mainland China, but then the current government is getting repressive again.
     
    They don't want Chinese Christians used against them as an American-backed fifth column. Which is exactly what the US intends to do. The Chinese government is right to be concerned about that. They don't care if Chinese are Christians, as long as they don't become an anti-Chinese bloc.

    The problems Chinese Christians are having are a direct result of American anti-Chinese policy. Like so many problems in the world today it's a result of toxic US foreign policy.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Achmed E. Newman, @Nodwink

  15. At first look, one may say “man, glad we don’t have many Japanese immigrants nowadays!” To me, the reasons for their vote may be the same as with immigrants from Western Europe who still trickle in. I’ve never met one (other than homeschooling refugees and such) that are very conservative at all. These type are just used to more Socialist societies.

    Of course, I know the Japs and Europeans that have come in the recent past are good citizens and the least of our problems. When it comes to raw numbers that will vote against anything that could get us back to a semi-free nation, I’d say the Latin Americans (all 3 groups shown) and the .Indians, in that order, are the biggest problem. It’s just the raw numbers with the former (you can’t make it up in volume!) and the total lack of any sense of really giving a damn about what made America great for the latter.

    Speaking of the .Indian types, going back 25 years I met some good ones that were bright enough to understand what the British did do for them in terms of rule-of-law and such and appreciated it here. I doubt that’s the case for the big numbers of computer geeks and the illegal ones coming to work at the .Indian-owned motels and convenience stores.

    .

    Back to the Chinese for just a second, the ones fresh off the boat will still not vote for Trump specifically (nothing to do with GOP/Dems) because he has tried to end the completely unfair deal for America in our relations since the mid-1990s. There are also Communist Party members who come to live, and we know where they stand. More assimilated ones, or just long-time residents, and yes, the Christians, are likely coming around to Trump. They know that the D’s are just bad for business, period, especially as they don’t do anything to quell the riots and, in fact, inflame them. Chinese people are knocked on their ass that “why doesn’t ‘the government’ just come in and shoot these people?!”

    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    @Achmed E. Newman


    At first look, one may say “man, glad we don’t have many Japanese immigrants nowadays!” To me, the reasons for their vote may be the same as with immigrants from Western Europe who still trickle in. I’ve never met one (other than homeschooling refugees and such) that are very conservative at all. These type are just used to more Socialist societies.
     
    This is how ancient Koreans brought civilization to the ancestors of the Japanese two millennia ago.


    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eg5grDJWsAAe-ZW.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eg5g9tpXsAAPE0y.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eg5hGAxXgAUD7Ms.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eg5hLixWoAIrv9x.jpg
  16. Mr. Epigone says:

    It was this fool’s hope in the halcyon days of 2016 that an America First populism could go some way in uniting Old Americans–red, white, and black–in a political coalition putting the interests of American citizens ahead of non-citizens. Many American Indians may have been open to the idea, but black Americans were not.

    I say:

    Many Blacks support mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration because they know it is a demographic weapon harmful to the historic American nation and White Core Americans.

    Bitter and resentful Blacks intuitively know why sub-Saharan Africa is a Third World Hellhole and these same Blacks know they could never attain as a group the level of sophistication and scientific achievement shown by European Christians. These Blacks want to destroy everything in sight because it reminds them that their sub-Saharan African Bantu ancestors were only capable of chasing Pygmies into pockets of forest in Africa. When did the Bantu African Negroids invent the wheel? Harsh question, but relevant.

    I played that game about talking about how mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration harm Blacks in terms of wages, housing, schooling, and the like, but most Blacks want Whitey to be crushed by a floodtide of invasionary foreigners.

    Treasonous Trump and the rancid Republican Party want to flood out the European Christian ancestral core of the USA with a deluge of invasionary foreigners, so Trump and the GOP are in the same bed as the Blacks on that one.

    Carol Swain and other Blacks such as the late US House Rep. Barbara Jordan are exempt from the great mass of Blacks who cheer on mass immigration — legal and illegal — so I’ll mention them.

    Tweet from 2015:

    I wrote this in January of 2018 about the harmful effects of mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration on Blacks:

    As some of you will recall, the week before the 9/11/2001 Islamic Terrorist Attacks, George W Bush was hosting Vicente Fox, the president of Mexico. The week before 9/11/2001, Bush was trying to ram through a massive amnesty for illegal aliens. Bush brought Fox to the USA to help sell the amnesty plan to the US Congress.

    California has been flooded with mass immigration. Mass immigration lowers wages. Blacks in California have seen their wages lowered by mass immigration.

    Here I am a few days before September 11, 2001 on the Diane Rehm radio show talking about how mass immigration harms Black workers. Relevant part starts at 45:05 in broadcast:

    https://dianerehm.org/audio/#/shows/2001-09-07/news-roundup/103647/@00:00

    Mass immigration harms Blacks in California. Some anti-White Blacks might support mass immigration because it also harms White Core Americans.

    Ex-President Fox of Mexico and the ruling class of Mexico uses the United States as a safety valve to offload their Mestizo and Amerindian peasants.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/ex-president-of-mexico-demands-of-us-president-with-what-authority-do-you-proclaim-whos-welcome-in-america-and-whos-not/#comment-2155560

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @Charles Pewitt

    When a trio of local hosts find themselves hopelessly out of their league on their own show!

  17. @Vergissmeinnicht
    I'm surprised Central America votes more Republican than South America. South America has countries with lots of Whites (Argentina, Uruguay; to lesser extent: Brazil, Colombia) and I'd suppose these South American (quasi-)Whites would want the USA to be different from the countries they came from (read: a free(r) market)… I mean, wasn't due to that they frickin' came to America, anyway‽
    .
    .
    .
    P.S.: I posted the following in the previous 'Audacious Epigone' article, but it's buried there where no-one can see it, therefore I'll post it again:

    Apparently, half of Jews are atheist (or what-not) – this is like 1% of the American population! Can we have stats of how Jewish atheists/agnostics vote vs. atheistic/agnostic White gentiles vote?

    I feel the atheist/agnostic/deist/etc. vote is not so Democrat if we could separate Jews from the rest.
     

    Replies: @Twinkie, @ariel, @Not Only Wrathful

    most Argentinians, Chileans and Uruguayans in the US are white , but they represent only about 1% of hispanic voters ,most South americans voters are Colombians or Venezuelans

  18. More Black Black Black Blackity Black Black stuff on immigration with apologies to the English guy on Long Island for stealing his Black Black Black… comedy bit.

    Black women are more immigration restrictionist than Black men and White women are more immigration restrictionist than White men. It depends on the nature of the polling question and how it is framed.

    Mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration lowers wages for US workers and increases housing costs and swamps schools and overwhelms hospitals and harms the environment, do you support restricting mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration in order to BOOST wages for US workers and to reduce housing costs and to reduce class sizes to provide better education for US kids and free up hospital space for American citizens and to protect our lovely and green American environment?

    Tweets from 2015:

  19. @Achmed E. Newman
    At first look, one may say "man, glad we don't have many Japanese immigrants nowadays!" To me, the reasons for their vote may be the same as with immigrants from Western Europe who still trickle in. I've never met one (other than homeschooling refugees and such) that are very conservative at all. These type are just used to more Socialist societies.

    Of course, I know the Japs and Europeans that have come in the recent past are good citizens and the least of our problems. When it comes to raw numbers that will vote against anything that could get us back to a semi-free nation, I'd say the Latin Americans (all 3 groups shown) and the .Indians, in that order, are the biggest problem. It's just the raw numbers with the former (you can't make it up in volume!) and the total lack of any sense of really giving a damn about what made America great for the latter.

    Speaking of the .Indian types, going back 25 years I met some good ones that were bright enough to understand what the British did do for them in terms of rule-of-law and such and appreciated it here. I doubt that's the case for the big numbers of computer geeks and the illegal ones coming to work at the .Indian-owned motels and convenience stores.

    .

    Back to the Chinese for just a second, the ones fresh off the boat will still not vote for Trump specifically (nothing to do with GOP/Dems) because he has tried to end the completely unfair deal for America in our relations since the mid-1990s. There are also Communist Party members who come to live, and we know where they stand. More assimilated ones, or just long-time residents, and yes, the Christians, are likely coming around to Trump. They know that the D's are just bad for business, period, especially as they don't do anything to quell the riots and, in fact, inflame them. Chinese people are knocked on their ass that "why doesn't 'the government' just come in and shoot these people?!"

    Replies: @Blinky Bill

    At first look, one may say “man, glad we don’t have many Japanese immigrants nowadays!” To me, the reasons for their vote may be the same as with immigrants from Western Europe who still trickle in. I’ve never met one (other than homeschooling refugees and such) that are very conservative at all. These type are just used to more Socialist societies.

    This is how ancient Koreans brought civilization to the ancestors of the Japanese two millennia ago.

    [MORE]

    • LOL: SIMP simp, Twinkie
  20. @nebulafox
    @Twinkie

    >On the other hand, Christianity IS growing rapidly in Mainland China.

    How do you see that working out long term? Serious question.

    >You know it’s true.

    Vividly. "Balkanization" is not an abstract concept for me.

    >They don’t want some of these groups to intermarry with generic whites and become like the latter. They want these people to harbor a resentment of the white majority and become useful cannon fodder for Elite-Americans.

    Meanwhile, elite Americans become more and more a country unto themselves, with all the feelings of obligation toward other Americans that would follow from that. The numerically bloated gentry class remains engaged in fanatical competition to gain entry or at least avoid declassment for their mediocre children. Bit silly since electricians can still make good money outside big cities, but herd logic can be extremely powerful, and the economy has shifted to massively favor an increasingly neo-feudal service sector.

    An Ottoman millet system with Brazilian characteristics... in the context of socioeconomic decline and structural rot. I don't see it working smoothly for long, but most of our governing class is over 70, so apres moi, le deluge works just fine for them. And government favored big corporations can easily afford the South Africa/Brazil style privatized security they need as the police get attacked. Some might go significantly further.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    How do you see that working out long term? Serious question.

    I don’t have the crystal ball, but given the current tendencies of the Chinese Communist Party, I can speculate.

    First of all, CCP doesn’t like to share institutional influence with any other “pole” in China, so I would think that it will continue to discourage Christian evangelization until there is a certain critical mass of Christians there. At that point, it will probably attempt to divide and coopt Christians.

    It will likely deal more gingerly with Christians than it has with the Falung Gong since it’s one thing to repress a “strange” cult with few outside adherents, but quite another to do so with a religious group that commands a high degree of sympathy and affinity in the West and elsewhere in the globe. So once there is a critical mass (and I think there will be in not-too-distant future), it will attempt to create dissension among Christians and thereby weaken them as a unified political force. A preview of this has been in play already with Catholics:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_in_China#September_2018_Holy_See%E2%80%93China_Agreement

    September 2018 Holy See–China Agreement
    On 22 September 2018, China and the Vatican signed a historic agreement concerning the appointment of bishops in China.[3] By this agreement the Chinese government also recognizes the pope as head of China’s Catholics.[4] China’s foreign ministry said in a statement that the agreement also works to maintain communications and to improve relations between both sides.[3] However, it does not establish diplomatic relations between the Vatican and China. The Vatican currently has diplomatic ties to the Republic of China (Taiwan),[3] which the People’s Republic of China does not recognize. Vatican spokesman Greg Burke, speaking in Lithuania, described the agreement as “not political but pastoral, allowing the faithful to have bishops who are in communion with Rome but at the same time recognized by Chinese authorities.”[40][3] While the agreement states that China will recommend the Bishops before they are appointed by the Pope,[40] it also stipulates that the Pope has authority to veto any Bishop which China recommends.[41] Francis then approved seven bishops who had been appointed by Beijing, after withdrawing church censures against them and also against one recently deceased bishop who had received episcopal consecration without papal approval.[42][43] On 23 September, the state-recognized Catholic Church in China pledged to remain loyal to the Chinese Communist Party.[44] Pope Francis’ reflection on the agreement came out in the Message of Pope Francis to the Catholics of China and to the Universal Church on 26 September 2018.[45]

    On 26 October 2018, AsiaNews reported that despite the agreement, the Chinese government decided to continue including the Catholic Church in its religious crackdown and destroyed two Marian shrines, one of which was located in Shanxi and the other located in Guizhou.[46][47]

    And a divide-and-conquer strategy will be easier to implement with Protestants since they are already rife with theological and liturgical dissension. Combined with selective favoritism toward those Christian groups and sects that are docile (those subscribing to the so-called prosperity gospel would be the prime candidates), I expect the CCP to do well in managing and minimizing the political heft of Christians as a whole.

  21. South Korea has current security ties. A huge chunk of Philippines migration has been tied to the U.S. Navy, even though current relations are not as strong. These make sense as the strongest GOP votes.

    India providing the lowest support because of Trump’s H1B speeches also makes sense.
    _____

    Cuban background still has a GOP anti-Communist preference.

    I concur with “Verg” that Central American is a bit surprising at 2nd strongest. Historicially, the U.S. had strong business ties with Panama. I wonder if the voting strength is a legacy of middle and upper-middle immigration tied to these succesful, capitalist businesses.

    Given that the Dominicians and Hatians have opposite views on almost everything. I would have anticipated slightly better performance for the GOP among Dominicans, but refugee type flows have their own built-in bias towards DNC government handouts.

    PEACE 😇

  22. How Hispanics, Asians, and American Indians Voted in the 2016 US Presidential Election

    From what state did they vote and will they vote for Biden and how many won’t vote and when the Hell are the moron Democrat Party minions going to start hammering a plain vanilla economic populist message that will doubly resonate with Whites and non-Whites alike?

    Sample example of simple economic populist message:

    The Republican Party is on the side of plutocrats and the rich and corporations and Wall Street and the Democrats will make the greedy money-grubbing hogs pay more in taxes to provide more services to the vast majority of the American people.

    The Democrat Party will not make mention of the big fat asset bubble created by the Fed the way Trumpy did in the 2016 election and that’s a sham and a shame. Too many Democrat Party donors are benefiting from the Fed-induced asset bubbles to allow a puppet politician whore such as Biden or Kamala Harris make mention of the massive asset bubble in stocks and bonds and real estate.

    The Mestizos and Asians and American Indians are bunched up in states that are locked up — counter-example; Florida — and they are bunched up in California and Illinois and New York and Biden will grab the non-White vote. Just like the Jews are bunched up in New York and California and Florida and Illinois.

    Biden won the presidential nomination with the AUNT JEMIMA STRATEGY and Biden will win the presidency with the GREEDY WHITE GEEZER STRATEGY.

    Biden will grab just enough Greedy White Geezers in the Great Lakes states to coast to victory over Trump.

    Treasonous Trump has stabbed his White Core American voter base in the back and they will repay the treasonous villainy of Trump by staying at home on November 3 or by voting for a write-in candidate or an alternative party candidate.

    Trump will lose tremendous ground with Whites Without College Degrees in the Great Lakes states and Trump will lose ground with White Women With College Degrees who hated Hillary and voted for Trump in 2016 but are sick of the impotent limp noodle bickering do-nothing bluster of Trump in office.

    IT’S OKAY TO BE WHITE

    Vote for Charles Pewitt of the WHITE CORE AMERICA PARTY as a write-in candidate for president of the USA on November 3.

    Pewitt Pledge:

    1) Implement an immediate moratorium on all legal immigration and deport all illegal alien invaders.

    2) All eligible Americans will grab ten thousand dollars a month by means of the Pewitt Conjured Loot Portion(PCLP).

    Pewitt Conjured Loot Portion(PCLP) further explained:

    The Pewitt Conjured Loot Portion(PCLP) will pay each American who has all blood ancestry born in colonial America or the USA before 1924 a cool ten thousand dollars a month. The US Treasury and the Federal Reserve Bank shall work together to conjure up the cash out of thin air, just like the ruling class is doing now.

  23. @SIMP simp
    @Twinkie

    I wonder if the number of korean immigrants is going down. With high economic growth and low fertility SK has become a magnet for immigrants itself, but a country can be both, like Poland.

    Replies: @Blinky Bill, @Twinkie

    I wonder if the number of korean immigrants is going down. With high economic growth and low fertility SK has become a magnet for immigrants itself, but a country can be both, like Poland.

    “Blinky Bill” already linked to the annual immigration numbers, which show that the peak of immigration to the U.S. was in the 1980’s.

    The table below confirms that the peak of the total number was in 2010 and has decline since: https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/korean-immigrants-united-states-2017

  24. How Hispanics, Asians, and American Indians Voted in the 2016 US Presidential Election

    Evil globalizer money-grubber Whites are fighting a proxy war against regular patriotic White Core Americans by using non-Whites as demographic weapons.

    Evil globalizer money-grubber Whites are using Blacks as demographic weapons to attack and destroy regular patriotic White Core Americans.

    Evil globalizer money-grubber Whites are using mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration as demographic weapons to attack and destroy regular patriotic White Core Americans.

    Evil globalizer money-grubber Whites are using non-Whites as demographic weapons to attack and destroy the historic American nation and the European Christian ancestral core of the USA.

    Evil globalizer money-grubber Whites are clam raking trillions of dollars out of the asset bubbles in stocks and bonds and real estate created by the monetary extremism of the privately-controlled Federal Reserve Bank.

    Tweets from 2015:

  25. When you see The Stupid Party saying that immigration and abortion are bad for blacks, you know they are finished. This voting thing is worthless.

    Race is everything. No multiracial societies have ever really succeeded.

    Admit it. This Failed State is about to have one NASTY Civil War.

    The Jews have screwed the pooch. They will be blamed for everything that happens.

  26. @Twinkie
    @Vergissmeinnicht


    I’m surprised Central America votes more Republican than South America. South America has countries with lots of Whites
     
    I said this before and I will say it again. Race matters a lot, but it's not everything. Ethno-cultural factors (including, powerfully, religion) can play robust roles in voting behavior. I've written numerous comments about this on Unz.

    Cubans and Filipinos, among Hispanics and Asians respectively, are generally considered to be the most assimilated into the American way of life and so they, like white Americans, exhibit a great deal of political diversity among their ranks.
     
    I've linked to this before, but here goes again:

    https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2816a3fb8063b5f5816e561b0303bea4.webp


    Koreans and Filipinos are considerably more likely to be Christian than Asians of other ancestries living in the US.
     
    See these figures:

    https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2012/07/overview3.png
    89% of Filipinos in America are Christian (65% Catholic + 21% Protestant) while 71% of Koreans in America are Christians (61% Protestant + 10% Catholic). Meanwhile only 31% of Chinese and 18% of Indians in America are Christians.

    It shouldn't come as a surprise then that Koreans and Filipinos are also the most well-represented in the U.S. armed forces among Asians, the former in the army officer corps and the latter in the Navy. I don't know what the figures are these days, but at one point in the recent past, a sizable majority of all "Asian" cadets at West Point were Korean and a Korean surname was typically the modal surname in each class (more Kim's than Smith's). And as was often the case with Koreans, even the parents of these Korean-American cadets were super gung-ho and hardcore about West Point, and organized themselves into a well-known booster organization.

    In any case, note that religion is robustly correlated to voting patterns among Asians (as is the case with whites):

    https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2012/07/overview18.png


    It was this fool’s hope in the halcyon days of 2016 that an America First populism could go some way in uniting Old Americans–red, white, and black–in a political coalition putting the interests of American citizens ahead of non-citizens. Many American Indians may have been open to the idea, but black Americans were not.
     
    I could have told you that, AE. Certain Asian and Hispanic groups - namely Filipinos, Koreans, and Cubans - were always far likely to vote for a rightist party/candidate than blacks, not least because most blacks are oppositional in culture to the white majority. They don't vote "rationally" ("Mass immigration is bad for us blacks, because it enlarges the lower end workforce!").

    However, I should point out that it's not all roses and gravy even with these Asian and Hispanic groups. Here are some reasons for pessimism:

    1. Younger Asians and Hispanics tend to be much more liberal than their parents, and this is undoubtedly powered by academia. The younger ones are assimilating all right, but now they are assimilating into the mainstream leftism and woke-ism.

    2. Asians intermarry at high rates with whites, and this has always helped with their assimilation (and pro-white sentiments). However, their intermarriage rates are declining as Asian population has increased.

    3. Cubans used to be somewhat unusual in that they clustered with some Asians (Filipinos, Koreans, and Vietnamese) in having high assimilation. However, the last Manhattan Institute study on assimilation shows that they were the only group to experience a dramatic drop in assimilation in its long-running study. The more recent cohorts of Cubans are little different from other Hispanic migrants (poorly educated and less able to assimilate).

    4. Filipinos are the only educationally downwardly mobile Asian group in America. Fewer American-born Filipinos have college degrees than foreign-born Filipinos. This may or may not be beneficial for the right politically, but it is not a positive economic and social trend for Filipino immigration (and for the country).

    5. The Asian group with the highest rate of retention of birth religion is... Hindus who have the lowest rate of right-leaning party identification (9 Rep vs. 72 Dem).

    6. And speaking of Indians, they are the fastest growing Asian group in the U.S. 20-30 years ago, they were a tiny fraction of "Asians" in America. Today, they are not only 20-25% of all Asians in America, they are also the richest, the most vocal, the least assimilated, and the highest left-leaning party ID Asians with the lowest intermarriage rates with whites, and their demographic heft (let alone cultural, political, and economic salience) is only increasing. In contrast, those identifying as Koreans have decreased in absolute number (not just in percentage terms) between the last two censuses.

    Indeed, one of the most salient trends about Asians in America over the past 20 years has been the rise of Indians - whom some call the New Jews - and the declining salience of Asian groups such as Koreans, often called the Ulster Irish of Asia. Notwithstanding AE's usual (and traditional) color coding, "Asians" in America are becoming increasingly brown, not yellow.

    Now, I don't mean to be entirely pessimistic and negative here. The fact is that Asians in America are still malleable, politically and culturally. They have the weakest party ID, for example. As such, they are far more "gettable" for a rightist party than blacks and most Hispanics. Nonetheless, several long-term trends I elaborated above are likely to make that more difficult, and time is running out as the more leftist young cohorts come of age.

    Replies: @Vergissmeinnicht, @Twinkie, @SIMP simp, @Wyatt, @cynthia curran, @techvet

    Fun fact! Studies of the Y-chromosomal Adam placed Indians as most closely related to Africans. In their search, they found a man who was a dead ringer for some East African, but was definitely Indian.

    Aren’t genetic studies grand?

  27. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Twinkie

    First, thank you got all the great pie charts and such, Twinkie. Christianity has been growing in mainland China, but then the current government is getting repressive again. There are many Christians there who can't meet in real churches and that sort of thing. Sure, you've got zoom and the internet, but when the government there clamps down on that ...?

    That's not the subject anyway, as, of course, the post is about how they vote as immigrants. I know multiple Chinese people that are Christians here. They hate the 2nd part of the Globohomo agenda, but may not even care about the 1st part. Their Christianity leads them to vote socially conservative. That does mean for Trump, which, if you would look back 30 years, you think that it would have be downright ludicrous for Trump to get the votes of social conservatives. (Remember Gart Hart, with the picture of him on his boat with the mistress - big deal back then - now Trump's this playboy, but we just have all let that slide, for what I thought would be a guy who could really help the country.)

    The biggest point you made is that huge numbers of people coming at the same time, often to the same places, DO NOT ASSIMILATE. That should be a no-brainer for anyone with common sense. I'd be the same way if I moved to Mexico. If I'm the only gringo around, I will try many things their way, and try not to be the "yeah, but back in Pennsylvania, we did it better ..." Were I to live in an ex-pat gringo community, I'd be keeping my American attitude, eating American food as much as is possible, etc.

    .

    BTW, one thing Chinese Christians can be convinced about is how their own land is becoming Revelation "Mark-o-the-Beast" territory very quickly. Social credit scores were one thing, health scores another, but this cashless phone-payments thing is going gangbusters. They are completely screwed, if you ask me.

    No, I'm not asking you, Godfree Roberts, Tor, Dan, dDenk, Bluedog, or any of the China-uber-alles freaks that freakquent this site!

    Replies: @dfordoom

    Christianity has been growing in mainland China, but then the current government is getting repressive again.

    They don’t want Chinese Christians used against them as an American-backed fifth column. Which is exactly what the US intends to do. The Chinese government is right to be concerned about that. They don’t care if Chinese are Christians, as long as they don’t become an anti-Chinese bloc.

    The problems Chinese Christians are having are a direct result of American anti-Chinese policy. Like so many problems in the world today it’s a result of toxic US foreign policy.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @dfordoom

    >Which is exactly what the US intends to do.

    I get how that's an appealing notion for Chinese propagandists, but the US has no such plans because the current government of the US has no plans beyond nostalgia, whether it is Pelosi gallivanting about in a dashiki or Trump trying to revive Reaganism. Our leadership does not consist of Serious People. The Chinese should know that better than anybody considering how they've profited from American elite venality for 30 years.

    (I don't trust the CCP further than I can throw them, but they at least take the job of governing seriously and come up with actual plans. Blaming a nation for acting in its own national interests more than your own co-nationals for helping them at the expense of yours is a cheap cop-out, IMO, and also counterproductive.)

    But back to my broader point: just look at the response to COVID. Or the riots, where governors blocking federal aid in order to subvert Trump. Does that really look like a nation capable of what it was able to do 50, 60 years ago, whether inspiring coups or sending men to the moon?

    >The problems Chinese Christians are having are a direct result of American anti-Chinese policy.

    If the US really places Christianity as a deciding factor in foreign policy, we wouldn't take the attitude to Israel's treatment of Palestinian Christians that we do. ;)

    Are they having problems as a whole? The odd church destruction here and there, it's not as if Mao is going around trying to destroy any trace of religion (or culture) in an effort to create Year Zero. Christianity continues to rapidly grow in the PRC, and the overwhelming majority of converts see no contradiction between the faith and their citizenship. The exceptions tend to be when state policy is actively subverted, like ethnic Korean churches in the northeast hiding North Korean refugees who face the camps if they get caught.

    I don't claim some special insight to the Chinese mentality, but it seems to me that China's also got a long history of successful or nearly successful religion rebellions that tend to have syncretic streaks to them: the White Lotus that brought the Ming to power was no less weird than the Taipings were. What they share in common was they all came in times where the ruling dynasty was, if not collapsing, facing deep internal rot. I think modern China had serious problems lying ahead, but nothing on that scale.

    (In general, East Asians seem to intertwine religion and communal affiliation far less than Southeast or South Asians do, at least in the modern era: Korean Christians are no less "Korean" than their Buddhist neighbors. It doesn't work that way in, say, Thailand, where to be Thai is heavily mixed in with being Theravada Buddhist, much less Malaysia where Islamic identity is tied in heavily with Malayness. That's part of why the Chinese diaspora likes Christianity, as I alluded to: it's a religion that doesn't require they give up their ethnic identity.)

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Johann Ricke

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @dfordoom


    The problems Chinese Christians are having are a direct result of American anti-Chinese policy. Like so many problems in the world today it’s a result of toxic US foreign policy.
     
    Is that you, Godfree?

    5th column, my ass. The problem is that when Chinese people take Christianity seriously, and it's not very easy for them, the blinders are taken off about the terrible morals of their countrymen. Their solution is to convert more people.

    I've been to China 11 times, Mr. Doom, and I know quite a few Chinese people here, and a handful in China. I wouldn't have said it even a year ago, but from what I hear about the cashless society, no matter how bad a situation we have here (and it's BAD), I don't see a way out of a real dystopian future for the Chinese people. Yeah, the government will be fine.
    , @Nodwink
    @dfordoom

    I hadn't thought of this angle, it certainly could be a major issue in coming years. From my comment above:


    I think anyone getting excited over Chinese Christians should recall that many entrepreneurs converted because Christianity is associated with business success (going to church also provides opportunity to connect with other businessmen).
     
    If there was a major economic crisis in China, then the CCP will accuse the foreign devils of subverting their nation with the heresies of Capitalism and Christianity. Those converts could be in for a rough ride.
  28. @Vergissmeinnicht
    @Twinkie

    Indeed: It does make tons of sense that Koreans and Filipinos, being more Christian, would vote more for the GOP than the Japanese or Chinese.

    Yeah, I read that 4th-generation Cubans prefer to call themselves Hispanic or Latino rather than White, in contrast to the previous generations. (can't find where I read it though, I'm sorry.)

    Now I see why Central Americans voted Republican more than South Americans: Cubans are Central Americans! D'oh. "Epic Fail" from my part. My bad.


    5. The Asian group with the highest rate of retention of birth religion is… Hindus who have the lowest rate of right-leaning party identification (9 Rep vs. 72 Dem).
     
    Huh‽ According to this article 47% of Indians voted GOP! (Yup, I do realise 'Indian' and 'Hindu' aren't exact the same thing.)

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Twinkie, @Cloudbuster

    Yeah, I read that 4th-generation Cubans prefer to call themselves Hispanic or Latino rather than White, in contrast to the previous generations. (can’t find where I read it though, I’m sorry.)

    Given all the official preference given to Hispanics, why would anyone who has a choice check the White box? Metaphorically, anyway: on most official documents I’ve seen, Hispanics have to pick a race and then identify as ethnically Hispanic in a separate question.

    Identifying as non-Hispanic White gets you nothing.

  29. @Twinkie
    @Twinkie

    By the way, this is the first link in my first comment (#2), which wouldn't show:

    https://siddiqueblogs.weebly.com/uploads/4/0/2/9/40298843/938237969.gif

    Replies: @Cloudbuster

    How is “assimilation index” scored and what is the possible range of scores?

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Cloudbuster

    The Manhattan Institute assimilation index is a composite of three indices - of economic assimilation, cultural assimilation, and civic engagement, each with its own set of proxies. You can see the details of the last study (2013) here: https://media4.manhattan-institute.org/pdf/cr_76.pdf

    Replies: @Anonymous

  30. @dfordoom
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Christianity has been growing in mainland China, but then the current government is getting repressive again.
     
    They don't want Chinese Christians used against them as an American-backed fifth column. Which is exactly what the US intends to do. The Chinese government is right to be concerned about that. They don't care if Chinese are Christians, as long as they don't become an anti-Chinese bloc.

    The problems Chinese Christians are having are a direct result of American anti-Chinese policy. Like so many problems in the world today it's a result of toxic US foreign policy.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Achmed E. Newman, @Nodwink

    >Which is exactly what the US intends to do.

    I get how that’s an appealing notion for Chinese propagandists, but the US has no such plans because the current government of the US has no plans beyond nostalgia, whether it is Pelosi gallivanting about in a dashiki or Trump trying to revive Reaganism. Our leadership does not consist of Serious People. The Chinese should know that better than anybody considering how they’ve profited from American elite venality for 30 years.

    (I don’t trust the CCP further than I can throw them, but they at least take the job of governing seriously and come up with actual plans. Blaming a nation for acting in its own national interests more than your own co-nationals for helping them at the expense of yours is a cheap cop-out, IMO, and also counterproductive.)

    But back to my broader point: just look at the response to COVID. Or the riots, where governors blocking federal aid in order to subvert Trump. Does that really look like a nation capable of what it was able to do 50, 60 years ago, whether inspiring coups or sending men to the moon?

    >The problems Chinese Christians are having are a direct result of American anti-Chinese policy.

    If the US really places Christianity as a deciding factor in foreign policy, we wouldn’t take the attitude to Israel’s treatment of Palestinian Christians that we do. 😉

    Are they having problems as a whole? The odd church destruction here and there, it’s not as if Mao is going around trying to destroy any trace of religion (or culture) in an effort to create Year Zero. Christianity continues to rapidly grow in the PRC, and the overwhelming majority of converts see no contradiction between the faith and their citizenship. The exceptions tend to be when state policy is actively subverted, like ethnic Korean churches in the northeast hiding North Korean refugees who face the camps if they get caught.

    I don’t claim some special insight to the Chinese mentality, but it seems to me that China’s also got a long history of successful or nearly successful religion rebellions that tend to have syncretic streaks to them: the White Lotus that brought the Ming to power was no less weird than the Taipings were. What they share in common was they all came in times where the ruling dynasty was, if not collapsing, facing deep internal rot. I think modern China had serious problems lying ahead, but nothing on that scale.

    (In general, East Asians seem to intertwine religion and communal affiliation far less than Southeast or South Asians do, at least in the modern era: Korean Christians are no less “Korean” than their Buddhist neighbors. It doesn’t work that way in, say, Thailand, where to be Thai is heavily mixed in with being Theravada Buddhist, much less Malaysia where Islamic identity is tied in heavily with Malayness. That’s part of why the Chinese diaspora likes Christianity, as I alluded to: it’s a religion that doesn’t require they give up their ethnic identity.)

    • Agree: Twinkie
    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @nebulafox


    If the US really places Christianity as a deciding factor in foreign policy, we wouldn’t take the attitude to Israel’s treatment of Palestinian Christians that we do.
     
    The US Government couldn't give a damn about Christians, but it does care about trying to subvert other countries' governments. As far as US foreign policy is concerned, if Christians can be used as a weapon they will be. Any group that can be used as a weapon to further the interests of the American Empire will be used. And then discarded when their usefulness is over.

    I don't think the Chinese are overly worried about their Christians, but they're right to regard them as a potential threat given the insane Sinophobia of the US at the moment. They're right to keep a close watch on them.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    , @Johann Ricke
    @nebulafox


    What they share in common was they all came in times where the ruling dynasty was, if not collapsing, facing deep internal rot.
     
    There's a real chicken and egg element to your reasoning. In reality, revolts bring about rot. They suck up huge amounts of resources and cause mass death. But when your only option for getting concessions from the regime is armed revolt, that's the mode for political expression.
  31. Anon[124] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie
    @nebulafox


    I’m willing to bet the Christian contingent is heavily Taiwanese. Also, Christianity is relatively popular among ethnic Chinese in Southeast Asia.
     
    I would not take that bet as I agree with you. On the other hand, Christianity IS growing rapidly in Mainland China. And as I noted, Asians in America tend to be much more Christian than their counterparts in Asia, and I believe the same pattern holds for the Chinese even if they came from the Mainland.

    The Japanese, for their part, have been here a long time, much like the original wave of Cantonese laborers in the 19th Century. They are heavily Americanized as a result. And they aren’t that numerous.
     
    Japanese in America are heavily intermixed and are no longer one of the major Asian groups (Chinese, Indians, Filipinos, Vietnamese, and Koreans are the Big Five, with the last rapidly declining in number, following the Japanese pattern of heavy intermixture with whites and the descendants no longer identifying as Asian).

    The difference is that the Japanese arrived as non-Christians, are heavily concentrated in Hawaii and California still, and likely intermixed with similarly religiously "unaffiliated" whites, which perhaps explains their relatively smaller Christian fraction. Koreans in America are much more Christian to begin with (and fervently so, of the 61% who are Protestants, 40% are evangelicals while 21% are mainline), are more dispersed geographically (lots in CA, but also in NY, IL, WA, VA, TX, etc.), and likely intermarry those of similar religious backgrounds, and are thus more likely to retain their high Christian fraction (at least for the foreseeable future).


    Yeah, it’s almost as if our elite wants to promote balkanization…
     
    You know it's true.

    They promote racial balkanization while also fostering pan-ethn0-racial identities ("Asian-American" instead of those of "Chinese," "Korean," or "Indian" origin, "Hispanic" instead of "Cuban," "Mexican," "Puerto Rican," etc.).

    They don't want some of these groups to intermarry with generic whites and become like the latter. They want these people to harbor a resentment of the white majority and become useful cannon fodder for Elite-Americans.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Achmed E. Newman, @Anon

    They don’t want some of these groups to intermarry with generic whites and become like the latter.

    I never thought about it this way, but that makes sense. Of course, I don’t think that an Asian should have to marry someone white or look white to be considered “American”.

    I’m a 4th generation Japanese-American and a large proportion of my extended family is ethnically mixed and indeed look “White”, despite me being “Asian”. It was the generation before mine that engaged in “miscegenation” and their impetus for marriage was far less mercenary that what I see in, say, a lot of Chinese-Jewish pairings that I see in New York. It was just a bunch of Japanese and Caucasians that happened to be living in the same area that really did socialize and interact in a race-blind manner. It really was a beautiful thing. However, it appears in my generation (I’m a millennial) individuals began, if subconsciously, socializing in a way that started to reflect the “Asian”/”White” dichotomy.

    The result has been horrific. Not only has this created fault lines between the “White” sides of my family and the “Asian” sides, but it has also negated the assimilation of the latter. Because Japanese-Americans are refused entry into the “White” category, they therefore have to adopt and socialize within the majority group of the “Asian” category, which will almost always be Chinese (we don’t really socialize with Indians). It has resulted in a situation in which the Japanese-Americans receive tremendous amounts of pressure to “de-assimilate”, and forget what we’ve learned since we got here, and “act like the people that look like us”. Of course, as you know perhaps better than I, “Asian-American” has no historical antecedents and means nothing to anyone outside the West. Nor do most white people I encounter know anything about WASP culture. I used to think that becoming more acquainted with traditional WASP culture would mean a thing or two about being American.

    My family has fought in every war since WW2 (Korean, Vietnam, Iraq), and yet according to the modern American racial taxonomy we are less American than the average Jewish-American in New York who hasn’t lost a drop of sweat, much less blood for this country and instead tries to undermine the culture of those that were before he. That’s why the “Asians are the new Jews” never really resonated with me: we’ve been here just as long.

  32. @dfordoom
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Christianity has been growing in mainland China, but then the current government is getting repressive again.
     
    They don't want Chinese Christians used against them as an American-backed fifth column. Which is exactly what the US intends to do. The Chinese government is right to be concerned about that. They don't care if Chinese are Christians, as long as they don't become an anti-Chinese bloc.

    The problems Chinese Christians are having are a direct result of American anti-Chinese policy. Like so many problems in the world today it's a result of toxic US foreign policy.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Achmed E. Newman, @Nodwink

    The problems Chinese Christians are having are a direct result of American anti-Chinese policy. Like so many problems in the world today it’s a result of toxic US foreign policy.

    Is that you, Godfree?

    5th column, my ass. The problem is that when Chinese people take Christianity seriously, and it’s not very easy for them, the blinders are taken off about the terrible morals of their countrymen. Their solution is to convert more people.

    I’ve been to China 11 times, Mr. Doom, and I know quite a few Chinese people here, and a handful in China. I wouldn’t have said it even a year ago, but from what I hear about the cashless society, no matter how bad a situation we have here (and it’s BAD), I don’t see a way out of a real dystopian future for the Chinese people. Yeah, the government will be fine.

  33. @nebulafox
    @dfordoom

    >Which is exactly what the US intends to do.

    I get how that's an appealing notion for Chinese propagandists, but the US has no such plans because the current government of the US has no plans beyond nostalgia, whether it is Pelosi gallivanting about in a dashiki or Trump trying to revive Reaganism. Our leadership does not consist of Serious People. The Chinese should know that better than anybody considering how they've profited from American elite venality for 30 years.

    (I don't trust the CCP further than I can throw them, but they at least take the job of governing seriously and come up with actual plans. Blaming a nation for acting in its own national interests more than your own co-nationals for helping them at the expense of yours is a cheap cop-out, IMO, and also counterproductive.)

    But back to my broader point: just look at the response to COVID. Or the riots, where governors blocking federal aid in order to subvert Trump. Does that really look like a nation capable of what it was able to do 50, 60 years ago, whether inspiring coups or sending men to the moon?

    >The problems Chinese Christians are having are a direct result of American anti-Chinese policy.

    If the US really places Christianity as a deciding factor in foreign policy, we wouldn't take the attitude to Israel's treatment of Palestinian Christians that we do. ;)

    Are they having problems as a whole? The odd church destruction here and there, it's not as if Mao is going around trying to destroy any trace of religion (or culture) in an effort to create Year Zero. Christianity continues to rapidly grow in the PRC, and the overwhelming majority of converts see no contradiction between the faith and their citizenship. The exceptions tend to be when state policy is actively subverted, like ethnic Korean churches in the northeast hiding North Korean refugees who face the camps if they get caught.

    I don't claim some special insight to the Chinese mentality, but it seems to me that China's also got a long history of successful or nearly successful religion rebellions that tend to have syncretic streaks to them: the White Lotus that brought the Ming to power was no less weird than the Taipings were. What they share in common was they all came in times where the ruling dynasty was, if not collapsing, facing deep internal rot. I think modern China had serious problems lying ahead, but nothing on that scale.

    (In general, East Asians seem to intertwine religion and communal affiliation far less than Southeast or South Asians do, at least in the modern era: Korean Christians are no less "Korean" than their Buddhist neighbors. It doesn't work that way in, say, Thailand, where to be Thai is heavily mixed in with being Theravada Buddhist, much less Malaysia where Islamic identity is tied in heavily with Malayness. That's part of why the Chinese diaspora likes Christianity, as I alluded to: it's a religion that doesn't require they give up their ethnic identity.)

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Johann Ricke

    If the US really places Christianity as a deciding factor in foreign policy, we wouldn’t take the attitude to Israel’s treatment of Palestinian Christians that we do.

    The US Government couldn’t give a damn about Christians, but it does care about trying to subvert other countries’ governments. As far as US foreign policy is concerned, if Christians can be used as a weapon they will be. Any group that can be used as a weapon to further the interests of the American Empire will be used. And then discarded when their usefulness is over.

    I don’t think the Chinese are overly worried about their Christians, but they’re right to regard them as a potential threat given the insane Sinophobia of the US at the moment. They’re right to keep a close watch on them.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @dfordoom

    I don't deny that there are some elements of the US government who have learned absolutely nothing about the lack of wisdom in going in search of monsters abroad, and the American leaderships favoring of irresponsible grandstanding stunts over substance has not diminished one whit, as official feting of the Hong Kong kids show. But in the case of China, the true believer democracy-enthusiasts simply do not have the power to override the deep financial dealings that our bipartisan elites (this is far from limited to the wokesters, just look at McConnell's wife) have with the Chinese government. If we were talking about Vladimir Putin's Russia instead, which has no such financial or social pull, only nuclear weapons, then I'd be a bit more inclined to take the regime's talk about Washington's malign intentions at face value as genuine existential fear. But I suspect many people in Beijing know deep down that America's elites do not seek the overthrow of the CCP, especially given their conditioning on how the media works.

    That's not to say that I *don't* think the Chinese are genuinely worried about American intentions at all, mind, or that we wouldn't try to weaken them. But this isn't 2000. The Chinese populace tends to think "democracy" and visions of 1990s Russia or 2000s Iraq (or India) pop up in their mind. There's no major discontent with the CCP. The Chinese are confident enough in the stability of their own government that they seriously see themselves as promoting an alternative to the American one globally, long-term. And honestly, if I were some aspiring African Kagame-style developmentarian, I'd take a good hard look at the US and question whether that's something I want to imitate. That's what the neocon/neoliberal crowd doesn't get: you do a much more effective job by saying less and having your own ship in order.

    (As far as religion goes, I think Twinkie basically has it right, and this conforms nicely to what I vaguely understand is traditional Chinese imperial treatment of religion: incorporate into or under the state. One thing that needs to be said is that the suppression of Islam in China has strong racial overtones that-I suspect-the Western MSM intentionally downplays for reasons you can guess. Part of that is simply because separatist ambitions among Uighurs aren't anything new and go back to the roots of their Qing-era incorporation, but it's very hard to ignore the crypto-eugenics thinking in vogue among the Chinese leadership, and how it is hard to imagine them thinking of ethnic Koreans or Kinh in such a way.)

  34. @Cloudbuster
    @Twinkie

    How is "assimilation index" scored and what is the possible range of scores?

    Replies: @Twinkie

    The Manhattan Institute assimilation index is a composite of three indices – of economic assimilation, cultural assimilation, and civic engagement, each with its own set of proxies. You can see the details of the last study (2013) here: https://media4.manhattan-institute.org/pdf/cr_76.pdf

    • Thanks: Cloudbuster
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Twinkie

    Based on these metrics (which include intermarriage rates and economics), just how "assimilated" are American blacks? Probably nowhere near 100%. But of course, that would be incorrect as blacks represent an equal but variant strain of what America is.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Twinkie

  35. @dfordoom
    @nebulafox


    If the US really places Christianity as a deciding factor in foreign policy, we wouldn’t take the attitude to Israel’s treatment of Palestinian Christians that we do.
     
    The US Government couldn't give a damn about Christians, but it does care about trying to subvert other countries' governments. As far as US foreign policy is concerned, if Christians can be used as a weapon they will be. Any group that can be used as a weapon to further the interests of the American Empire will be used. And then discarded when their usefulness is over.

    I don't think the Chinese are overly worried about their Christians, but they're right to regard them as a potential threat given the insane Sinophobia of the US at the moment. They're right to keep a close watch on them.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    I don’t deny that there are some elements of the US government who have learned absolutely nothing about the lack of wisdom in going in search of monsters abroad, and the American leaderships favoring of irresponsible grandstanding stunts over substance has not diminished one whit, as official feting of the Hong Kong kids show. But in the case of China, the true believer democracy-enthusiasts simply do not have the power to override the deep financial dealings that our bipartisan elites (this is far from limited to the wokesters, just look at McConnell’s wife) have with the Chinese government. If we were talking about Vladimir Putin’s Russia instead, which has no such financial or social pull, only nuclear weapons, then I’d be a bit more inclined to take the regime’s talk about Washington’s malign intentions at face value as genuine existential fear. But I suspect many people in Beijing know deep down that America’s elites do not seek the overthrow of the CCP, especially given their conditioning on how the media works.

    That’s not to say that I *don’t* think the Chinese are genuinely worried about American intentions at all, mind, or that we wouldn’t try to weaken them. But this isn’t 2000. The Chinese populace tends to think “democracy” and visions of 1990s Russia or 2000s Iraq (or India) pop up in their mind. There’s no major discontent with the CCP. The Chinese are confident enough in the stability of their own government that they seriously see themselves as promoting an alternative to the American one globally, long-term. And honestly, if I were some aspiring African Kagame-style developmentarian, I’d take a good hard look at the US and question whether that’s something I want to imitate. That’s what the neocon/neoliberal crowd doesn’t get: you do a much more effective job by saying less and having your own ship in order.

    (As far as religion goes, I think Twinkie basically has it right, and this conforms nicely to what I vaguely understand is traditional Chinese imperial treatment of religion: incorporate into or under the state. One thing that needs to be said is that the suppression of Islam in China has strong racial overtones that-I suspect-the Western MSM intentionally downplays for reasons you can guess. Part of that is simply because separatist ambitions among Uighurs aren’t anything new and go back to the roots of their Qing-era incorporation, but it’s very hard to ignore the crypto-eugenics thinking in vogue among the Chinese leadership, and how it is hard to imagine them thinking of ethnic Koreans or Kinh in such a way.)

  36. The Cuban problem: As the population darkens, so the IQ of the country diverges from Spain’s IQ and approaches Africa’s. Capablanca and Lecuona (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbGP9RVVIlM) to the prevailing present (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8oo47rCzHw). At least three generations already born under communist “free” indoctrination, the latest arrivals tend to be more to the left. The influence of the large Jewish population in the perception of South Floridians of what the US is should not be underestimated. They partially convey the material for this perception. With the assistance of the Deep State, some communist elements have come, feeding the Gladio-ranks of another sparse fifth column.
    Our problem: It is time to identify the principal sources of divergence between older and new generations among Whites. Education is one, among the most fundamental. Not only colleges and universities, but K-12 also. Teaching of perversities, marxism (cultural and political). The media. The hidden ones.
    The future: Stormy. Dark. Followed by a rising sun.

  37. @nebulafox
    @dfordoom

    >Which is exactly what the US intends to do.

    I get how that's an appealing notion for Chinese propagandists, but the US has no such plans because the current government of the US has no plans beyond nostalgia, whether it is Pelosi gallivanting about in a dashiki or Trump trying to revive Reaganism. Our leadership does not consist of Serious People. The Chinese should know that better than anybody considering how they've profited from American elite venality for 30 years.

    (I don't trust the CCP further than I can throw them, but they at least take the job of governing seriously and come up with actual plans. Blaming a nation for acting in its own national interests more than your own co-nationals for helping them at the expense of yours is a cheap cop-out, IMO, and also counterproductive.)

    But back to my broader point: just look at the response to COVID. Or the riots, where governors blocking federal aid in order to subvert Trump. Does that really look like a nation capable of what it was able to do 50, 60 years ago, whether inspiring coups or sending men to the moon?

    >The problems Chinese Christians are having are a direct result of American anti-Chinese policy.

    If the US really places Christianity as a deciding factor in foreign policy, we wouldn't take the attitude to Israel's treatment of Palestinian Christians that we do. ;)

    Are they having problems as a whole? The odd church destruction here and there, it's not as if Mao is going around trying to destroy any trace of religion (or culture) in an effort to create Year Zero. Christianity continues to rapidly grow in the PRC, and the overwhelming majority of converts see no contradiction between the faith and their citizenship. The exceptions tend to be when state policy is actively subverted, like ethnic Korean churches in the northeast hiding North Korean refugees who face the camps if they get caught.

    I don't claim some special insight to the Chinese mentality, but it seems to me that China's also got a long history of successful or nearly successful religion rebellions that tend to have syncretic streaks to them: the White Lotus that brought the Ming to power was no less weird than the Taipings were. What they share in common was they all came in times where the ruling dynasty was, if not collapsing, facing deep internal rot. I think modern China had serious problems lying ahead, but nothing on that scale.

    (In general, East Asians seem to intertwine religion and communal affiliation far less than Southeast or South Asians do, at least in the modern era: Korean Christians are no less "Korean" than their Buddhist neighbors. It doesn't work that way in, say, Thailand, where to be Thai is heavily mixed in with being Theravada Buddhist, much less Malaysia where Islamic identity is tied in heavily with Malayness. That's part of why the Chinese diaspora likes Christianity, as I alluded to: it's a religion that doesn't require they give up their ethnic identity.)

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Johann Ricke

    What they share in common was they all came in times where the ruling dynasty was, if not collapsing, facing deep internal rot.

    There’s a real chicken and egg element to your reasoning. In reality, revolts bring about rot. They suck up huge amounts of resources and cause mass death. But when your only option for getting concessions from the regime is armed revolt, that’s the mode for political expression.

  38. @Vergissmeinnicht
    I'm surprised Central America votes more Republican than South America. South America has countries with lots of Whites (Argentina, Uruguay; to lesser extent: Brazil, Colombia) and I'd suppose these South American (quasi-)Whites would want the USA to be different from the countries they came from (read: a free(r) market)… I mean, wasn't due to that they frickin' came to America, anyway‽
    .
    .
    .
    P.S.: I posted the following in the previous 'Audacious Epigone' article, but it's buried there where no-one can see it, therefore I'll post it again:

    Apparently, half of Jews are atheist (or what-not) – this is like 1% of the American population! Can we have stats of how Jewish atheists/agnostics vote vs. atheistic/agnostic White gentiles vote?

    I feel the atheist/agnostic/deist/etc. vote is not so Democrat if we could separate Jews from the rest.
     

    Replies: @Twinkie, @ariel, @Not Only Wrathful

    I feel the atheist/agnostic/deist/etc. vote is not so Democrat if we could separate Jews from the rest.

    Surely it is the other way around. The Jewish vote would be strongly Republican were one to seperate out the atheists.

    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Anon
    @Not Only Wrathful


    Surely it is the other way around. The Jewish vote would be strongly Republican were one to seperate out the atheists.
     
    Surely it isn't.

    As if Hitler didn't already correctly inform us of all of this about eighty years ago, and countless men before him, but:

    The vast majority of those Jews who you would have us assume are atheists are not, and Judaism is not incompatible with atheism because it is primarily a political strategy and agenda. Which is why Jewish atheists are halachically considered to be Jews.

    Conservative Jews and Liberal Jews share the same belief in the same end game as put forth by the Jewish Tanakh:

    Which is the destruction of all other nations and the rulership of Jews over what remains.

    So tell us again about the Jews that support implicit or explicit European racial nationalism: the only "Republicanism" that has any true support throughout the core of the Republican base. Anything else is Leftism in a skirt.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful

  39. @Twinkie
    @Cloudbuster

    The Manhattan Institute assimilation index is a composite of three indices - of economic assimilation, cultural assimilation, and civic engagement, each with its own set of proxies. You can see the details of the last study (2013) here: https://media4.manhattan-institute.org/pdf/cr_76.pdf

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Based on these metrics (which include intermarriage rates and economics), just how “assimilated” are American blacks? Probably nowhere near 100%. But of course, that would be incorrect as blacks represent an equal but variant strain of what America is.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Anonymous

    Assimilated is not the right word, IMO, because in their own way, American blacks are deeply American. (Seriously, just look at how rap music focuses on making it big. Very American there. Its why the US has historically attracted people who would have felt stifled at home before we decided to become a market with a nation rather than the other way around. God, I miss the old America I never knew.) Not just psychologically and culturally, either, given the degree of likely white admixture.

    Integrated captures the problem more accuately. The likely future for the black underclass is for ghettoes to become akin to urban reservations as black political and cultural power fades.

    Replies: @iffen

    , @Twinkie
    @Anonymous


    Based on these metrics (which include intermarriage rates and economics), just how “assimilated” are American blacks?
     
    The index is for those born outside the United States. The proxies that are utilized are selected with that characteristic in mind. They wouldn't be appropriate for those born in the U.S.

    By the way, one of the proxies for the cultural assimilation axis is marriage with a native, not racial "intermarriage." Most blacks marry other blacks born in the U.S., so their cultural assimilation index would be very high.

    Strictly speaking, they are born in the U.S., so they are definitionally "assimilated."

    It would be an interesting question, though, to see just how "integrated" or not so they are based on white norms on similar measures.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  40. Anon[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @Not Only Wrathful
    @Vergissmeinnicht


    I feel the atheist/agnostic/deist/etc. vote is not so Democrat if we could separate Jews from the rest.
     
    Surely it is the other way around. The Jewish vote would be strongly Republican were one to seperate out the atheists.

    Replies: @Anon

    Surely it is the other way around. The Jewish vote would be strongly Republican were one to seperate out the atheists.

    Surely it isn’t.

    As if Hitler didn’t already correctly inform us of all of this about eighty years ago, and countless men before him, but:

    The vast majority of those Jews who you would have us assume are atheists are not, and Judaism is not incompatible with atheism because it is primarily a political strategy and agenda. Which is why Jewish atheists are halachically considered to be Jews.

    Conservative Jews and Liberal Jews share the same belief in the same end game as put forth by the Jewish Tanakh:

    Which is the destruction of all other nations and the rulership of Jews over what remains.

    So tell us again about the Jews that support implicit or explicit European racial nationalism: the only “Republicanism” that has any true support throughout the core of the Republican base. Anything else is Leftism in a skirt.

    • Replies: @Not Only Wrathful
    @Anon

    If more than half of Jews are atheists then it is a reasonable supposition that Trump got more than half of the non-atheist Jewish vote.

    As for your strange projections which you share with Hitler, I'd suggest you deal with your own internal problems rather than doing them the disservice of externalising them and therefore misunderstanding and invalidating them.

    Ironically, this is something you share with a lot of Western Jews, it seems, with their being haunted by shadowy anti-Semites so often.

  41. Well, civil wars are violent, destructive affairs. That said, they can make a bad situation worse, but millenarian sects need a reason (not necessarily existential, late Qianlong) to flourish in the first place. Most religious rebellions in China seemed to promise radical overhaul of the political system, even if they never actually did on the occasions they succeeded.

    In the Byzantine Empire, civil wars and revolts weirdly enough played an “election” role without such grand sweeping promises, but that was intimately tied with the Roman legacy of no institutionalized succession and notions of a res publica. No analogue to that in China. The Byzantines also lacked any major dissenting religious sects, especially after the Arabs “solved” the Monophysite issue. Everybody left in the rump state was Chalcedonian Christian.

    (The iconoclasts enjoyed strong support in the army, so the possibility of the parasites in the clergy launching religiously inspired rebellions was minimal. That did not prevent secular rebellions, such as Artovasdos against the newly crowned Constantine V.)

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @nebulafox


    In the Byzantine Empire, civil wars and revolts weirdly enough played an “election” role without such grand sweeping promises, but that was intimately tied with the Roman legacy of no institutionalized succession and notions of a res publica.
     
    Interestingly enough, the Mongol Empire was the same. There was no institutionalized succession. Sure, there was supposed to be an "election" by all the Noyans/princes for the supreme khan, but the fact was that every succession was a contested affair, which introduced instability and seeds of future conflict even when peaceful.

    I would also argue that the Mongols also had a sense of something akin to res publica - at least as applied toward Mongols and especially the princes. Theirs was not a "winner takes all" system and even when there was a winner for the ultimate prize, every noyan was supposed to be given something to lord over, which also created more seeds (power bases for competitors) of future conflicts.

    Replies: @nebulafox

  42. @Anonymous
    @Twinkie

    Based on these metrics (which include intermarriage rates and economics), just how "assimilated" are American blacks? Probably nowhere near 100%. But of course, that would be incorrect as blacks represent an equal but variant strain of what America is.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Twinkie

    Assimilated is not the right word, IMO, because in their own way, American blacks are deeply American. (Seriously, just look at how rap music focuses on making it big. Very American there. Its why the US has historically attracted people who would have felt stifled at home before we decided to become a market with a nation rather than the other way around. God, I miss the old America I never knew.) Not just psychologically and culturally, either, given the degree of likely white admixture.

    Integrated captures the problem more accuately. The likely future for the black underclass is for ghettoes to become akin to urban reservations as black political and cultural power fades.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @nebulafox

    Assimilated is not the right word, IMO, because in their own way, American blacks are deeply American.

    Yes

    Integrated captures the problem more accuately.

    Yes

    There has to be more and that is the "importance" that they place on being black. As long as they maintain a hostile sub-culture centered on race, they will never be fully integrated.

  43. @Twinkie
    @Vergissmeinnicht


    I’m surprised Central America votes more Republican than South America. South America has countries with lots of Whites
     
    I said this before and I will say it again. Race matters a lot, but it's not everything. Ethno-cultural factors (including, powerfully, religion) can play robust roles in voting behavior. I've written numerous comments about this on Unz.

    Cubans and Filipinos, among Hispanics and Asians respectively, are generally considered to be the most assimilated into the American way of life and so they, like white Americans, exhibit a great deal of political diversity among their ranks.
     
    I've linked to this before, but here goes again:

    https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2816a3fb8063b5f5816e561b0303bea4.webp


    Koreans and Filipinos are considerably more likely to be Christian than Asians of other ancestries living in the US.
     
    See these figures:

    https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2012/07/overview3.png
    89% of Filipinos in America are Christian (65% Catholic + 21% Protestant) while 71% of Koreans in America are Christians (61% Protestant + 10% Catholic). Meanwhile only 31% of Chinese and 18% of Indians in America are Christians.

    It shouldn't come as a surprise then that Koreans and Filipinos are also the most well-represented in the U.S. armed forces among Asians, the former in the army officer corps and the latter in the Navy. I don't know what the figures are these days, but at one point in the recent past, a sizable majority of all "Asian" cadets at West Point were Korean and a Korean surname was typically the modal surname in each class (more Kim's than Smith's). And as was often the case with Koreans, even the parents of these Korean-American cadets were super gung-ho and hardcore about West Point, and organized themselves into a well-known booster organization.

    In any case, note that religion is robustly correlated to voting patterns among Asians (as is the case with whites):

    https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2012/07/overview18.png


    It was this fool’s hope in the halcyon days of 2016 that an America First populism could go some way in uniting Old Americans–red, white, and black–in a political coalition putting the interests of American citizens ahead of non-citizens. Many American Indians may have been open to the idea, but black Americans were not.
     
    I could have told you that, AE. Certain Asian and Hispanic groups - namely Filipinos, Koreans, and Cubans - were always far likely to vote for a rightist party/candidate than blacks, not least because most blacks are oppositional in culture to the white majority. They don't vote "rationally" ("Mass immigration is bad for us blacks, because it enlarges the lower end workforce!").

    However, I should point out that it's not all roses and gravy even with these Asian and Hispanic groups. Here are some reasons for pessimism:

    1. Younger Asians and Hispanics tend to be much more liberal than their parents, and this is undoubtedly powered by academia. The younger ones are assimilating all right, but now they are assimilating into the mainstream leftism and woke-ism.

    2. Asians intermarry at high rates with whites, and this has always helped with their assimilation (and pro-white sentiments). However, their intermarriage rates are declining as Asian population has increased.

    3. Cubans used to be somewhat unusual in that they clustered with some Asians (Filipinos, Koreans, and Vietnamese) in having high assimilation. However, the last Manhattan Institute study on assimilation shows that they were the only group to experience a dramatic drop in assimilation in its long-running study. The more recent cohorts of Cubans are little different from other Hispanic migrants (poorly educated and less able to assimilate).

    4. Filipinos are the only educationally downwardly mobile Asian group in America. Fewer American-born Filipinos have college degrees than foreign-born Filipinos. This may or may not be beneficial for the right politically, but it is not a positive economic and social trend for Filipino immigration (and for the country).

    5. The Asian group with the highest rate of retention of birth religion is... Hindus who have the lowest rate of right-leaning party identification (9 Rep vs. 72 Dem).

    6. And speaking of Indians, they are the fastest growing Asian group in the U.S. 20-30 years ago, they were a tiny fraction of "Asians" in America. Today, they are not only 20-25% of all Asians in America, they are also the richest, the most vocal, the least assimilated, and the highest left-leaning party ID Asians with the lowest intermarriage rates with whites, and their demographic heft (let alone cultural, political, and economic salience) is only increasing. In contrast, those identifying as Koreans have decreased in absolute number (not just in percentage terms) between the last two censuses.

    Indeed, one of the most salient trends about Asians in America over the past 20 years has been the rise of Indians - whom some call the New Jews - and the declining salience of Asian groups such as Koreans, often called the Ulster Irish of Asia. Notwithstanding AE's usual (and traditional) color coding, "Asians" in America are becoming increasingly brown, not yellow.

    Now, I don't mean to be entirely pessimistic and negative here. The fact is that Asians in America are still malleable, politically and culturally. They have the weakest party ID, for example. As such, they are far more "gettable" for a rightist party than blacks and most Hispanics. Nonetheless, several long-term trends I elaborated above are likely to make that more difficult, and time is running out as the more leftist young cohorts come of age.

    Replies: @Vergissmeinnicht, @Twinkie, @SIMP simp, @Wyatt, @cynthia curran, @techvet

    South Korea is a less poor country than India. Engineers or computer programmers make more money in South Korea than India, so Koreans don’t come to the US as much.

  44. @Anon
    @Not Only Wrathful


    Surely it is the other way around. The Jewish vote would be strongly Republican were one to seperate out the atheists.
     
    Surely it isn't.

    As if Hitler didn't already correctly inform us of all of this about eighty years ago, and countless men before him, but:

    The vast majority of those Jews who you would have us assume are atheists are not, and Judaism is not incompatible with atheism because it is primarily a political strategy and agenda. Which is why Jewish atheists are halachically considered to be Jews.

    Conservative Jews and Liberal Jews share the same belief in the same end game as put forth by the Jewish Tanakh:

    Which is the destruction of all other nations and the rulership of Jews over what remains.

    So tell us again about the Jews that support implicit or explicit European racial nationalism: the only "Republicanism" that has any true support throughout the core of the Republican base. Anything else is Leftism in a skirt.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful

    If more than half of Jews are atheists then it is a reasonable supposition that Trump got more than half of the non-atheist Jewish vote.

    As for your strange projections which you share with Hitler, I’d suggest you deal with your own internal problems rather than doing them the disservice of externalising them and therefore misunderstanding and invalidating them.

    Ironically, this is something you share with a lot of Western Jews, it seems, with their being haunted by shadowy anti-Semites so often.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  45. @Anonymous
    @Twinkie

    Based on these metrics (which include intermarriage rates and economics), just how "assimilated" are American blacks? Probably nowhere near 100%. But of course, that would be incorrect as blacks represent an equal but variant strain of what America is.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Twinkie

    Based on these metrics (which include intermarriage rates and economics), just how “assimilated” are American blacks?

    The index is for those born outside the United States. The proxies that are utilized are selected with that characteristic in mind. They wouldn’t be appropriate for those born in the U.S.

    By the way, one of the proxies for the cultural assimilation axis is marriage with a native, not racial “intermarriage.” Most blacks marry other blacks born in the U.S., so their cultural assimilation index would be very high.

    Strictly speaking, they are born in the U.S., so they are definitionally “assimilated.”

    It would be an interesting question, though, to see just how “integrated” or not so they are based on white norms on similar measures.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Twinkie

    Are you sure US born Asians are excluded from the survey? Wouldn't it make more sense to look at all Asians as a whole and determine overall assimilation?

    I get it that the test is designed for a particular ethnic group. But I don't like the idea of giving assimilation points to Korean bar girls who marry US servicemen. Or automatic points to college educated, immigrant Indians who work in tech or medical fields because they've established themselves as good middle class Americans.

    Maybe the index encompasses a very complex set of factors (that includes something like mine below), but I could think of a number of qualitative and quantitative measures that might be good/better indicators of assimilation, such as:

    - Ratio of immigrant friends to native born friends
    - English fluency
    - Participation in civic and community activities
    - Voting/interest in US politics
    - Consuming American media
    - Familiarity with mainstream US culture/embracing American culture
    - Familiarity with US history, US Constitution and Western liberalism
    - Qualitative measures like:
    • How strongly do you feel American?
    • Do you feel comfortable with native born Americans and other Americans not your ethnic group?
    • Do you feel loyalty to America? Notwithstanding its flaws, do you love America?

  46. @nebulafox
    Well, civil wars are violent, destructive affairs. That said, they can make a bad situation worse, but millenarian sects need a reason (not necessarily existential, late Qianlong) to flourish in the first place. Most religious rebellions in China seemed to promise radical overhaul of the political system, even if they never actually did on the occasions they succeeded.

    In the Byzantine Empire, civil wars and revolts weirdly enough played an "election" role without such grand sweeping promises, but that was intimately tied with the Roman legacy of no institutionalized succession and notions of a res publica. No analogue to that in China. The Byzantines also lacked any major dissenting religious sects, especially after the Arabs "solved" the Monophysite issue. Everybody left in the rump state was Chalcedonian Christian.

    (The iconoclasts enjoyed strong support in the army, so the possibility of the parasites in the clergy launching religiously inspired rebellions was minimal. That did not prevent secular rebellions, such as Artovasdos against the newly crowned Constantine V.)

    Replies: @Twinkie

    In the Byzantine Empire, civil wars and revolts weirdly enough played an “election” role without such grand sweeping promises, but that was intimately tied with the Roman legacy of no institutionalized succession and notions of a res publica.

    Interestingly enough, the Mongol Empire was the same. There was no institutionalized succession. Sure, there was supposed to be an “election” by all the Noyans/princes for the supreme khan, but the fact was that every succession was a contested affair, which introduced instability and seeds of future conflict even when peaceful.

    I would also argue that the Mongols also had a sense of something akin to res publica – at least as applied toward Mongols and especially the princes. Theirs was not a “winner takes all” system and even when there was a winner for the ultimate prize, every noyan was supposed to be given something to lord over, which also created more seeds (power bases for competitors) of future conflicts.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Twinkie

    I'm not knowledgeable enough about the Mongols to comment intelligently on that one way or another, to tell you the truth, but that's really fascinating. In a couple of years, I'm slated to study them. I wonder how many assumptions are gonna get challenged...

    In a way, that's probably even more akin to old "republican" dynamics than the post-3rd Century Roman Empire, because that was very much a winner take all system, even if the system involved a lot more factors than other states did. The move to Constantinople reinforced this because of the city's unique defensive capabilities: even challengers who had the better army were out of luck if the residents of the capital decided to sit tight.

  47. @Twinkie
    @Vergissmeinnicht


    I’m surprised Central America votes more Republican than South America. South America has countries with lots of Whites
     
    I said this before and I will say it again. Race matters a lot, but it's not everything. Ethno-cultural factors (including, powerfully, religion) can play robust roles in voting behavior. I've written numerous comments about this on Unz.

    Cubans and Filipinos, among Hispanics and Asians respectively, are generally considered to be the most assimilated into the American way of life and so they, like white Americans, exhibit a great deal of political diversity among their ranks.
     
    I've linked to this before, but here goes again:

    https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2816a3fb8063b5f5816e561b0303bea4.webp


    Koreans and Filipinos are considerably more likely to be Christian than Asians of other ancestries living in the US.
     
    See these figures:

    https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2012/07/overview3.png
    89% of Filipinos in America are Christian (65% Catholic + 21% Protestant) while 71% of Koreans in America are Christians (61% Protestant + 10% Catholic). Meanwhile only 31% of Chinese and 18% of Indians in America are Christians.

    It shouldn't come as a surprise then that Koreans and Filipinos are also the most well-represented in the U.S. armed forces among Asians, the former in the army officer corps and the latter in the Navy. I don't know what the figures are these days, but at one point in the recent past, a sizable majority of all "Asian" cadets at West Point were Korean and a Korean surname was typically the modal surname in each class (more Kim's than Smith's). And as was often the case with Koreans, even the parents of these Korean-American cadets were super gung-ho and hardcore about West Point, and organized themselves into a well-known booster organization.

    In any case, note that religion is robustly correlated to voting patterns among Asians (as is the case with whites):

    https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2012/07/overview18.png


    It was this fool’s hope in the halcyon days of 2016 that an America First populism could go some way in uniting Old Americans–red, white, and black–in a political coalition putting the interests of American citizens ahead of non-citizens. Many American Indians may have been open to the idea, but black Americans were not.
     
    I could have told you that, AE. Certain Asian and Hispanic groups - namely Filipinos, Koreans, and Cubans - were always far likely to vote for a rightist party/candidate than blacks, not least because most blacks are oppositional in culture to the white majority. They don't vote "rationally" ("Mass immigration is bad for us blacks, because it enlarges the lower end workforce!").

    However, I should point out that it's not all roses and gravy even with these Asian and Hispanic groups. Here are some reasons for pessimism:

    1. Younger Asians and Hispanics tend to be much more liberal than their parents, and this is undoubtedly powered by academia. The younger ones are assimilating all right, but now they are assimilating into the mainstream leftism and woke-ism.

    2. Asians intermarry at high rates with whites, and this has always helped with their assimilation (and pro-white sentiments). However, their intermarriage rates are declining as Asian population has increased.

    3. Cubans used to be somewhat unusual in that they clustered with some Asians (Filipinos, Koreans, and Vietnamese) in having high assimilation. However, the last Manhattan Institute study on assimilation shows that they were the only group to experience a dramatic drop in assimilation in its long-running study. The more recent cohorts of Cubans are little different from other Hispanic migrants (poorly educated and less able to assimilate).

    4. Filipinos are the only educationally downwardly mobile Asian group in America. Fewer American-born Filipinos have college degrees than foreign-born Filipinos. This may or may not be beneficial for the right politically, but it is not a positive economic and social trend for Filipino immigration (and for the country).

    5. The Asian group with the highest rate of retention of birth religion is... Hindus who have the lowest rate of right-leaning party identification (9 Rep vs. 72 Dem).

    6. And speaking of Indians, they are the fastest growing Asian group in the U.S. 20-30 years ago, they were a tiny fraction of "Asians" in America. Today, they are not only 20-25% of all Asians in America, they are also the richest, the most vocal, the least assimilated, and the highest left-leaning party ID Asians with the lowest intermarriage rates with whites, and their demographic heft (let alone cultural, political, and economic salience) is only increasing. In contrast, those identifying as Koreans have decreased in absolute number (not just in percentage terms) between the last two censuses.

    Indeed, one of the most salient trends about Asians in America over the past 20 years has been the rise of Indians - whom some call the New Jews - and the declining salience of Asian groups such as Koreans, often called the Ulster Irish of Asia. Notwithstanding AE's usual (and traditional) color coding, "Asians" in America are becoming increasingly brown, not yellow.

    Now, I don't mean to be entirely pessimistic and negative here. The fact is that Asians in America are still malleable, politically and culturally. They have the weakest party ID, for example. As such, they are far more "gettable" for a rightist party than blacks and most Hispanics. Nonetheless, several long-term trends I elaborated above are likely to make that more difficult, and time is running out as the more leftist young cohorts come of age.

    Replies: @Vergissmeinnicht, @Twinkie, @SIMP simp, @Wyatt, @cynthia curran, @techvet

    6. And speaking of Indians, they are the fastest growing Asian group in the U.S. 20-30 years ago, they were a tiny fraction of “Asians” in America. Today, they are not only 20-25% of all Asians in America, they are also the richest, the most vocal, the least assimilated, and the highest left-leaning party ID Asians with the lowest intermarriage rates with whites, and their demographic heft (let alone cultural, political, and economic salience) is only increasing. In contrast, those identifying as Koreans have decreased in absolute number (not just in percentage terms) between the last two censuses.

    the making of another hostile upper crust right there. I work in tech, I know quite something abt them. I look forward to our new overlords with dread and disgust. replacing the ashkenaz with upper crust hindus will be the final nail in the WASP coffin

  48. @Twinkie
    @nebulafox


    In the Byzantine Empire, civil wars and revolts weirdly enough played an “election” role without such grand sweeping promises, but that was intimately tied with the Roman legacy of no institutionalized succession and notions of a res publica.
     
    Interestingly enough, the Mongol Empire was the same. There was no institutionalized succession. Sure, there was supposed to be an "election" by all the Noyans/princes for the supreme khan, but the fact was that every succession was a contested affair, which introduced instability and seeds of future conflict even when peaceful.

    I would also argue that the Mongols also had a sense of something akin to res publica - at least as applied toward Mongols and especially the princes. Theirs was not a "winner takes all" system and even when there was a winner for the ultimate prize, every noyan was supposed to be given something to lord over, which also created more seeds (power bases for competitors) of future conflicts.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    I’m not knowledgeable enough about the Mongols to comment intelligently on that one way or another, to tell you the truth, but that’s really fascinating. In a couple of years, I’m slated to study them. I wonder how many assumptions are gonna get challenged…

    In a way, that’s probably even more akin to old “republican” dynamics than the post-3rd Century Roman Empire, because that was very much a winner take all system, even if the system involved a lot more factors than other states did. The move to Constantinople reinforced this because of the city’s unique defensive capabilities: even challengers who had the better army were out of luck if the residents of the capital decided to sit tight.

  49. I think a reason a large minority of American Indians voted for Trump is that they were attracted to his talk of the wall. I live in a county with large numbers of Hispanics and American Indians and the Indians are resentful of the Mexican immigrants and often complain about them. They, more than white people, make negative remarks when they hear Hispanics speak Spanish in public.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Jay Fink

    I feel like the outreach made to blacks over the past few decades was entirely wasted on them, and it should have been given to American Indians instead. Like, for instance, in a buddy cop movie, where the one guy is black, he should have been Indian instead.

  50. @nebulafox
    @Anonymous

    Assimilated is not the right word, IMO, because in their own way, American blacks are deeply American. (Seriously, just look at how rap music focuses on making it big. Very American there. Its why the US has historically attracted people who would have felt stifled at home before we decided to become a market with a nation rather than the other way around. God, I miss the old America I never knew.) Not just psychologically and culturally, either, given the degree of likely white admixture.

    Integrated captures the problem more accuately. The likely future for the black underclass is for ghettoes to become akin to urban reservations as black political and cultural power fades.

    Replies: @iffen

    Assimilated is not the right word, IMO, because in their own way, American blacks are deeply American.

    Yes

    Integrated captures the problem more accuately.

    Yes

    There has to be more and that is the “importance” that they place on being black. As long as they maintain a hostile sub-culture centered on race, they will never be fully integrated.

  51. @Jay Fink
    I think a reason a large minority of American Indians voted for Trump is that they were attracted to his talk of the wall. I live in a county with large numbers of Hispanics and American Indians and the Indians are resentful of the Mexican immigrants and often complain about them. They, more than white people, make negative remarks when they hear Hispanics speak Spanish in public.

    Replies: @songbird

    I feel like the outreach made to blacks over the past few decades was entirely wasted on them, and it should have been given to American Indians instead. Like, for instance, in a buddy cop movie, where the one guy is black, he should have been Indian instead.

  52. @dfordoom
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Christianity has been growing in mainland China, but then the current government is getting repressive again.
     
    They don't want Chinese Christians used against them as an American-backed fifth column. Which is exactly what the US intends to do. The Chinese government is right to be concerned about that. They don't care if Chinese are Christians, as long as they don't become an anti-Chinese bloc.

    The problems Chinese Christians are having are a direct result of American anti-Chinese policy. Like so many problems in the world today it's a result of toxic US foreign policy.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Achmed E. Newman, @Nodwink

    I hadn’t thought of this angle, it certainly could be a major issue in coming years. From my comment above:

    I think anyone getting excited over Chinese Christians should recall that many entrepreneurs converted because Christianity is associated with business success (going to church also provides opportunity to connect with other businessmen).

    If there was a major economic crisis in China, then the CCP will accuse the foreign devils of subverting their nation with the heresies of Capitalism and Christianity. Those converts could be in for a rough ride.

  53. Anonymous[346] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie
    @Anonymous


    Based on these metrics (which include intermarriage rates and economics), just how “assimilated” are American blacks?
     
    The index is for those born outside the United States. The proxies that are utilized are selected with that characteristic in mind. They wouldn't be appropriate for those born in the U.S.

    By the way, one of the proxies for the cultural assimilation axis is marriage with a native, not racial "intermarriage." Most blacks marry other blacks born in the U.S., so their cultural assimilation index would be very high.

    Strictly speaking, they are born in the U.S., so they are definitionally "assimilated."

    It would be an interesting question, though, to see just how "integrated" or not so they are based on white norms on similar measures.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Are you sure US born Asians are excluded from the survey? Wouldn’t it make more sense to look at all Asians as a whole and determine overall assimilation?

    I get it that the test is designed for a particular ethnic group. But I don’t like the idea of giving assimilation points to Korean bar girls who marry US servicemen. Or automatic points to college educated, immigrant Indians who work in tech or medical fields because they’ve established themselves as good middle class Americans.

    Maybe the index encompasses a very complex set of factors (that includes something like mine below), but I could think of a number of qualitative and quantitative measures that might be good/better indicators of assimilation, such as:

    – Ratio of immigrant friends to native born friends
    – English fluency
    – Participation in civic and community activities
    – Voting/interest in US politics
    – Consuming American media
    – Familiarity with mainstream US culture/embracing American culture
    – Familiarity with US history, US Constitution and Western liberalism
    – Qualitative measures like:
    • How strongly do you feel American?
    • Do you feel comfortable with native born Americans and other Americans not your ethnic group?
    • Do you feel loyalty to America? Notwithstanding its flaws, do you love America?

  54. @t
    Does the CCES allow searching by nativity generation? My impression is that Mexicans with grandparents born in the US are more Republican but I haven't been able to find evidence and the GSS sample size is too small.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    It does not.

  55. @Charles Pewitt
    Mr. Epigone says:

    It was this fool’s hope in the halcyon days of 2016 that an America First populism could go some way in uniting Old Americans–red, white, and black–in a political coalition putting the interests of American citizens ahead of non-citizens. Many American Indians may have been open to the idea, but black Americans were not.

    I say:

    Many Blacks support mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration because they know it is a demographic weapon harmful to the historic American nation and White Core Americans.

    Bitter and resentful Blacks intuitively know why sub-Saharan Africa is a Third World Hellhole and these same Blacks know they could never attain as a group the level of sophistication and scientific achievement shown by European Christians. These Blacks want to destroy everything in sight because it reminds them that their sub-Saharan African Bantu ancestors were only capable of chasing Pygmies into pockets of forest in Africa. When did the Bantu African Negroids invent the wheel? Harsh question, but relevant.

    I played that game about talking about how mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration harm Blacks in terms of wages, housing, schooling, and the like, but most Blacks want Whitey to be crushed by a floodtide of invasionary foreigners.

    Treasonous Trump and the rancid Republican Party want to flood out the European Christian ancestral core of the USA with a deluge of invasionary foreigners, so Trump and the GOP are in the same bed as the Blacks on that one.

    Carol Swain and other Blacks such as the late US House Rep. Barbara Jordan are exempt from the great mass of Blacks who cheer on mass immigration -- legal and illegal -- so I'll mention them.

    Tweet from 2015:

    https://twitter.com/CharlesPewitt/status/640214405096079360?s=20

    I wrote this in January of 2018 about the harmful effects of mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration on Blacks:


    As some of you will recall, the week before the 9/11/2001 Islamic Terrorist Attacks, George W Bush was hosting Vicente Fox, the president of Mexico. The week before 9/11/2001, Bush was trying to ram through a massive amnesty for illegal aliens. Bush brought Fox to the USA to help sell the amnesty plan to the US Congress.

     


    California has been flooded with mass immigration. Mass immigration lowers wages. Blacks in California have seen their wages lowered by mass immigration.

     


    Here I am a few days before September 11, 2001 on the Diane Rehm radio show talking about how mass immigration harms Black workers. Relevant part starts at 45:05 in broadcast:

     

    https://dianerehm.org/audio/#/shows/2001-09-07/news-roundup/103647/@00:00

    Mass immigration harms Blacks in California. Some anti-White Blacks might support mass immigration because it also harms White Core Americans.

     


    Ex-President Fox of Mexico and the ruling class of Mexico uses the United States as a safety valve to offload their Mestizo and Amerindian peasants.

     

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/ex-president-of-mexico-demands-of-us-president-with-what-authority-do-you-proclaim-whos-welcome-in-america-and-whos-not/#comment-2155560

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    When a trio of local hosts find themselves hopelessly out of their league on their own show!

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