The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersAudacious Epigone Blog
First Debate Quick Take
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

The corporate media is in collusion with the Biden campaign–it’s hard to describe Biden reading from a teleprompter during media interviews any other way–so it’s safe to assume the former vice president had the questions ahead of time. Biden delivered his rehearsed answers satisfactorily to a general audience and extremely well to people who think he has severe dementia. If Trump permitted the debate to transpire according to the stated rules, he would’ve lost big league. The trap was set.

Trump thus took a risk he had to take by constantly badgering and interrupting Biden and Wallace. The rude interjections repeatedly knocked Biden off his game. Trump was the arrogant, obnoxious ass everyone knows him to be. Biden was the frail and rattled geriatric people who haven’t followed things closely hadn’t realized he had become.

The Trump highlight will be calling on Biden to name a single law enforcement agency that has endorsed him and Biden’s inability to do so.

The Biden highlight will be Trump refusing to dance to Chris Wallace’s tune by explicitly condemning white supremacy.

The markets didn’t move. The people who love Trump are fired up to support him because of this, the people who hate Trump are fired up to punish him because of it. There are more of the latter and they control all the institutions of power in the country, so Biden will win in November.

 
Hide 122 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. Trump won the debate and he will win the election, but more importantly:

    I thought the whole night went quite well, for both men. Heck, for all three men, counting the news media in the person of Chris Wallace as the third debater. Everybody showed up and fought it out. It was a good debate. It was a good night for the country.

    I’m very happy to be an American right now.

    • Agree: botazefa
  2. Thomm says:

    so Biden will win in November.

    Which means Trump will win (as he should). Audie Baby’s predictions tend to be a good barometer of events unfolding in the opposite manner, due to his zero-for-many track record.

    I, too, am very happy to be an American right now.

    The only major error Trump made was not to attack Biden over his insane wish to ban fracking. The stupid ‘climate change’ question should have been diverted into how Biden wants to ban fracking, sending oil prices high, making us dependent on Middle Eastern Oil and this more wars, and killing thousands of valuable jobs in PA and OH, and increasing anti-Biden turnout in South Texas.

    Trump was the arrogant, obnoxious ass everyone knows him to be.

    So you would prefer a surrender-loving cuckservative like Mitt Romney or Jeb Bush? You sound like a long-time columnist at NRO or something.

    People like a fighter. I am suspicious of those who try to virtue-signal by saying Trump lacks ‘decorum’. Biden is the one who said ‘shut up’.

    Get a clue.

  3. The people who love Trump are fired up to support him because of this, the people who hate Trump are fired up to punish him because of it. There are more of the latter and they control all the institutions of power in the country, so Biden will win in November.

    Note that I don’t know too many R’s who HATE Biden. Unlike 2016, when Hillary was genuinely hated and motivated people to vote against her. Trump, by contrast, inspires people who don’t love Biden to vote for Biden out of hatred for himself.

    You may well be right.

    • Replies: @Wency
    , @Audacious Epigone
  4. To many white Americans, it is extremely bizarre that so many other whites would vote for ANYONE, that belongs to a political party (democratic party) that has become TOTALLY AND FANATICALLY ANTI-WHITE. Joe Biden has made the most abominable comments about whites, going along with the rest of the politicians in the radicalized far left democrat party. Do whites with children, husbands, wives, uncles, aunts, cousins, etc.etc. not understand. Are they really so lame as to perpetuate the power of a political entity, that contains mostly members who would not have a problem with the mass elimination of white people, either by neutering them from all political power or simply doing away with them altogether??? It’s a situation that is beyond bizarre. What, pray tell, is more important than protecting your own family and relatives from danger???

  5. Tor597 says:

    This was a debate with Chris Wallace from Fox News. He wouldn’t give Biden questions in advance, if anything he would be helping Trump.

    • Disagree: Audacious Epigone
  6. nebulafox says:

    I didn’t bother to watch the debate, so I’m not going to comment on the specifics. But Trump’s goal should be twofold for the next few weeks.

    1) Get Biden to display his failing cognitive abilities as much as possible, with this being *explicitly coupled* to the notion of President Kamala Harris and full-blown Silicon Valley managerial totalitarianism in the White House, beyond anything Obama ever contemplated. Being loud, crude, and generally obnoxious to the sensitivities of the traditional gate keepers-no malice intended-does just this: Trump is not going to alienate anybody outside of people who already hate him and will not be convinced by anything he says. And who better than a man who is basically a 1960s Queens construction worker who happens to have billions of dollars? Trump’s big mistake all along from Day was trying to appease a political and media class that objected less to his policies than to his political existence in the first place, so good to hear from what AE implies he’s finally woken up to that. It might be too late, of course. Probably is. But there you go.

    2) Getting into explicit intended policies. This is not Trump’s natural strength, but it has to be done. Just saying that the Democrats are going to want to “take away your guns” isn’t enough this time. You have to go into the meat of Biden’s publicized policies and keep hammering it until a critical mass of new gun owners are aware: and frightened, especially amongst the newly or at-risk-of-being unemployed who might not be able to afford the taxes Biden is going to slap on ammo and are less likely to recover from rioter shenanigans. This is far from the only topic that should be hit (another good one is bringing up Democratic unwillingness to go after the overseas money of their donors with their tax plans, with Amazon being a particularly juicy target), but the gun issue has to come first for blue and purple state voters with local officials forbidding the police from doing their jobs. The Democrats have these intended policies published, so they can’t just deny it or change the subject effectively.

    TBH, I’ve largely checked out from it all. While I’d appreciate having a President not likely to empower people who despise me, it’s not like either man is an Original Ideas guy, certainly not at their ages. America’s real problems will continue unabated while our political class gets increasingly shrill with imagery: which is, of course, not going to be long-term tenable. When it ceases to be… well, have no idea what will happen, so why speculate?

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
  7. The markets didn’t move. The people who love Trump are fired up to support him because of this, the people who hate Trump are fired up to punish him because of it. There are more of the latter and they control all the institutions of power in the country, so Biden will win in November.

    Oh please. Talk is cheap.

    Put your money where your mouth is and post the screen shot if you’re really so confident.

    • Disagree: V. K. Ovelund
    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  8. Jay Fink says:

    I personally didn’t care for the debate. For my tastes the worst I have ever seen. Important topics were brought up and they didn’t get discussed thoroughly. It was just guys yelling and being nasty to each other which isn’t fulfilling to me. The moderator was as annoying as the candidates.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  9. Dan says:

    Here are Wallace’s ‘questions’ — this is all Wallace here:

    “President Trump, you nominated Amy Coney Barrett over the weekend to succeed the late Ruth Bader Ginsburg on the Court. You say the Constitution is clear about your obligation and the Senate’s to consider a nominee to the Court. Vice President Biden, you say that this is an effort by the President and Republicans to jam through on an appointment in what you call an abuse of power. My first question to both of you tonight, why are you right in the argument you make and your opponent wrong? And where do you think a Justice Barrett would take the court? ”

    “Mr. President, the Supreme Court will hear a case a week after the election in which the Trump Administration, along with 18 state Attorney Generals are seeking to overturn Obamacare, to end Obamacare.”

    “Over the last four years, you have promised to repeal and replace Obamacare, but you have never in these four years come up with a plan, a comprehensive plan, to replace Obamacare.”

    “That’s not a comprehensive plan.”

    “You, in the course of these four years, have never come up with a comprehensive plan to replace Obamacare, and just this last Thursday you signed a largely symbolic Executive Order to protect people with pre-existing conditions five days before this debate. So my question, sir, is what is the Trump healthcare plan?”

    “What about pre-existing conditions?”

    To Biden: “Sir, you’ll be happy. I’m about to pick up on one of your points to ask the Vice President, which is, he points out that you would like to add a public option to Obamacare.”

    “Mr. Vice President, if Senate Republicans, we were talking originally about the Supreme Court here, if Senate Republicans go ahead and confirm Justice Barrett there has been talk about ending the filibuster or even packing the court, adding to the nine justices there. You call this a distraction by the President. But, in fact, it wasn’t brought up by the President. It was brought up by some of your Democratic colleagues in the Congress. So my question to you is, you have refused in the past to talk about it, are you willing to tell the American tonight whether or not you will support either ending the filibuster or packing the court?”

    Biden refuses to answer and Wallace does not push it. Trump tries to get an answer and is cut off by Wallace.

    “All right, the second subject is COVID-19, which is an awfully serious subject. So let’s try to be serious about it. We have had more than seven million cases of coronavirus in the United States and more than 200,000 people have died. Even after we produce a vaccine, experts say that it could be months or even years before we come back to anything approaching normal. My question for both of you is, based on what you have said and done so far, and what you have said you would do starting in 2021, why should the American people trust you more than your opponent to deal with this public health crisis going forward? In this case, the question goes to you first, sir. Two minutes, uninterrupted.”

    “Okay, gentlemen, gentlemen. Let me move on to questions about the future because you both have touched on two of the questions I’m going to ask. Focusing on the future first, President Trump, you have repeatedly either contradicted or been at odds with some of your governments own top scientists. The week before last, the Head of the Centers for Disease Control, Dr. Redfield said it would be summer before the vaccine would become generally available to the public. You said that he was confused and mistaken. Those were your two words. But Dr. Slaoui, the head of your Operation Warp Speed, has said exactly the same thing. Are they both wrong?”

    “I want to pick up on this question though. You say the public can trust the scientists, but they can’t trust President Trump. In fact, you said that again tonight. Your running mate, Senator Harris, goes further, saying that public health experts quote, “Will be muzzled, will be suppressed.” Given the fact that polls already show that people are concerned about the vaccine and are reluctant to take it, are you and your running mate, Senator Harris, contributing to that fear?”

    “Okay. When it comes to how the virus has been handled so far, the two of you have taken very different approaches, and this is going to affect how the virus is handled going forward by whichever of you ends up becoming the next president. I want to quickly go through several of those. Reopenings. Vice President Biden, you have been much more reluctant than President Trump about reopening the economy and schools. Why, sir?”

    “President Trump, you have begun to increasingly question the effectiveness of masks as a disease preventer. And in fact, recently you have cited the issue of waiters touching their masks and touching plates. Are you questioning the efficacy of masks?”

    “I want to ask you both about one last subject because your different approaches has even affected the way that you have campaigned. President Trump, you’re holding large rallies with crowds packed together, thousands of people.”

    “But are not worried about us spreading disease?”

    “Are you not worried about the disease issues, sir?”

    “The Federal Reserve says the hit to growth, which is going to be there, is not going to be nearly as big as they had expected. President Trump, you say we are in a V-shaped recovery. Vice President Biden, you say it’s more of a K-shape. What difference does that mean to the American people in terms of the economy? President Trump, in this segment you go first.”

    “Gentlemen, we’re going to get to your economic plans going forward in a moment, but first, Mr. President, as you well know, there’s a new report that in 2016, the year you were elected president, and 2017, your first year as president, that you paid $750 a year in federal income tax each of those years. I know that you pay a lot of other taxes, but I’m asking you this specific question. Is it true that you paid $750 in federal income taxes each of those two years?”

    “Sir, I’m asking you a specific question, which is-”

    “No, Mr. President, I’m asking you a question. Will you tell us how much you paid in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017?”

    “… if you were to be elected president focuses a lot on big government, big taxes, big spending. I want to focus first on the taxes. You propose more than $4 trillion over a decade in new taxes on individuals making more than $400,000 a year and on corporations. President Trump says that that kind of an increase in taxes is going to hurt the economy as it’s just coming out of a recession.”

    “Mr. President, let me pick up on that. You would continue your free market approach, lower taxes, more deregulation, correct?”

    “You talk about the economy booming. It turns out that in Obama’s final three years as president more jobs were created, a million and a half more jobs, than in the first three years of your presidency.”

    “The issue of race. Vice-President Biden, you say that President Trump’s response to the violence in Charlottesville three years ago, when he talked about very fine people on both sides, was what directly led you to launch this run for president.”

    “My question for the two of you, is why should voters trust you rather than your opponent to deal with the race issues facing this country over the next four years? Vice President Biden, you go first.”

    “All right. I want to return to the question of race. Vice President Biden, after the grand jury in the Breonna Taylor case decided not to charge any of the police with homicide, you said it raises the question, “Whether justice could be equally applied in America.” Do you believe that there is a separate but unequal system of justice for Blacks in this country?”

    “This month, your administration directed federal agencies to end racial sensitivity training that addresses white privilege or critical race theory. Why did you decide to do that, to end racial sensitivity training? And do you believe that there is systemic racism in this country, sir?”

    “What is radical about racial sensitivity training?”

    “That’s exactly my question. There has been a dramatic increase in homicides in America this summer particularly, and you often blame that on democratic mayors and democratic governors. But in fact, there have been equivalent spikes in Republican led cities, like Tulsa and Fort Worth. So the question is, is this really a…”

    “I do want to talk about this issue of law and order though. And in the joint recommendation that came from the Biden-Bernie Sanders task force, you talked about quote re-imagining policing. First of all, what does re-imagining policing mean and do you support? If I might finish the question, what does re-imagining policing mean and do you support the Black Lives Matter call for community control of policing?”

    “And I want to get to another subject, which is the issue of protests in many cities that have turned violent in Portland, Oregon, especially we had more than a 100 straight days of protests, which I think you would agree, you talk about peaceful protests. Many of those turned into riots. Mr. Vice-president you say that people who commit crimes should be held accountable. The question I have though is as the democratic nominee, and earlier tonight, you said that you are the Democratic Party right now, have you ever called the Democratic Mayor of Portland or the Democratic Governor of Oregon and said, “Hey, you got to stop this, bring in the National Guard, do whatever it takes, but you’d stop the days and months of violence in Portland.””

    “Excuse me, sir. You had never called for the leaders in Portland and in Oregon to call and bring in the National Guard and knock off a 100 days of riots.”

    “You have repeatedly criticized the vice president for not specifically calling out Antifa and other left wing extremist groups. But are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia group and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha and as we’ve seen in Portland.”

    Trump: “What do you want to call them? Give me a name, give me a name, go ahead who do you want me to condemn.”

    “White supremacist and right-wing militia.”

    “When the president seeks a second term, it is generally a referendum on his record but vice president Biden, you’d like to quote one of your dad’s sayings, which is don’t compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative. And in this case sir you are the alternative. Looking at both of your records, I’m going to ask each of you. Why should voters elect you president over your opponent in this segment, President Trump you’ll go first, two minutes.”

    “The forest fires in the West are raging now. They have burned millions of acres. They have displaced hundreds of thousands of people. When state officials there blamed the fires on climate change. Mr. President, you said, I don’t think the science knows. Over your four years, you have pulled the US out of the Paris Climate Accord. You have rolled back a number of Obama Environmental records, what do you believe about the science of climate change and what will you do in the next four years to confront it?”

    “But sir if you believe in the science of climate change, why have you rolled back the Obama Clean Power Plan which limited carbon emissions and power plants? Why have you relaxed…?”

    “All right, Vice president Biden. I’d like you to respond to the president’s climate change record but I also want to ask you about a concern. You propose $2 trillion in green jobs. You talk about new limits, not abolishing, but new limits on fracking. Ending the use of fossil fuels to generate electricity by 2035 and zero none admission of greenhouse gases by 2050. The president says a lot of these things would tank the economy and cost millions of jobs.”

    “What about the argument that President Trump basically says, that you have to balance environmental interests and economic interests? And he’s drawn his line.”

    “Wait a minute, sir. I actually have studied your plan, and it includes upgrading 4 million buildings, weatherizing 2 million homes over four years, building one and a half million energy efficient homes. So the question becomes, the president is saying, I think some people who support the president would say, that sounds like it’s going to cost a lot of money and hurt the economy.”

    “All right, gentlemen, final segment, election integrity. As we meet tonight, millions of Americans are receiving mail-in ballots or going to vote early. How confident should we be that this will be a fair election, and what are you prepared to do over the next five plus weeks? Because it will not only be to election day, but also counting some mail-in ballots after election day. What are you prepared to do to reassure the American people that the next president will be the legitimate winner of this election. In this final segment, Mr. Vice President, you go first.”

    “You’re going to be able to continue. You have been charging for months that mail-in balloting is going to be a disaster. You say it’s rigged [crosstalk 00:01:04:11], that it’s going to lead to fraud. But in 2018, in the last midterm election, 31 million people voted mail-in voting. That was more than a quarter of all the voters that year, cast their ballots by mail. Now that millions of mail-in ballots have gone out, what are you going to do about it? And are you counting on the Supreme Court, including a Justice Barrett, to settle any dispute?”

    “No. Excuse me. Vice President Biden, the biggest problem, in fact, over the years with mail-in voting has not been fraud, historically. It has been that sizable numbers, sometimes hundreds of thousands of ballots are thrown out because they have not been properly filled out, or there is some other irregularity, or they missed [crosstalk 01:06:28] the deadline. So the question I have is, are you concerned that the Supreme Court with a Justice Barrett will settle any dispute?”

    “We can keep talking. In eight states, [crosstalk 01:07:27] election workers are prohibited, currently by law, eight states, from even beginning to process ballots, even take them out of the envelopes and flatten them until election day. That means that it’s likely, because there’s going to be a huge increase in mail-in balloting, that we are not going to know on election night who the winner is, that it could be days. It could be weeks until we find out who the new president is. First for you, sir. Finally, for the vice president, and I hope neither of you will interrupt the other. Will you urge your supporters to stay calm during this extended period, not to engage in any civil unrest? And will you pledge tonight that you will not declare victory until the election has been independently certified?”

  10. Dan says:

    The questions are biased and loaded to set up attacks against Trump but where Wallace really crosses the line is where he rejects Trump’s answers and follows up on the attack:

    – Regarding healthcare and a plan to replace Obamacare

    – Regarding climate change and ‘belief in science’

    – Regarding the advice of experts on COVID vaccine

    – Regarding critical race theory banning as banning ‘racial sensitivity’

    – Regarding race and condemning ‘white nationalists’

    – Regarding spreading COVID at rallies

    – Regarding Trump’s taxes and how much Trump paid in a particular year

    It was bad enough that Wallace devised ‘questions’ that were in fact sharp attacks on Trump.

    But in every one of these cases, Wallace snapped back at Trump AFTER Trump answered to try to drive home the attack. So not only did Wallace come up with ‘questions’ to make Trump look bad, Wallace wouldn’t let go even after Trump answered well, generally trying to hit Trump again.

    • Agree: Buzz Mohawk
  11. neutral says:
    @Tor597

    Wallace is a Democrat, this idea that Fox is pro Republican is about 20 years old. Currently the majority of the talking heads are pro Democrat, there are some notable pro Trump ones, however the fact is that Fox is not the right wing outlet that the leftists are saying it is. Fox is just your typical Conservatism Inc. operation, it is just adhering to liberal ideas 5 years after they were introduced.

    • Agree: Realist
    • Replies: @Realist
  12. unit472 says:
    @Tor597

    Oh puhleeze, if Fox News was the Conservative equivalent of CNN or the NYT Chris Wallace wouldn’t have a job there. That Chris Wallace was chosen to moderate the debate was because the MSM hive had complete confidence in Mike Wallace’s son being a reliable member of the swamp synagogue.

    Fox News is only distinct from the rest of the MSM in that the MSM has no equivalent to Britt Hume or Harris Faulkner who are hardly right wing firebrands much less a Maria Bartoromo. Where Fox is different is in its prime time opinion shows where Tucker, Sean and Laura hold court but none of those people or even Maria Bartoromo would be allowed to moderate any presidential debate.

  13. Trump will be dead and buried in November. His debate performance will win no new supporters while Biden showed that he was in full possession of his faculties and more than up to the job.

    With an expression like he was a feral pig with a giant acorn stuck up his ass, Trump interrupted Biden every 5 seconds, not as a strategy to disrupt Biden, but simply because he could not control his desire to attack Biden, just like he couldn’t control himself with Stormy Daniels. He just has to do it, whether it’s grabbing some unfortunate pussy or attacking Biden. He can’t control himself.

    Looking at the polling data, IMO his support is overweighted in many polls because they got 2016 wrong n have thus overcompensated by giving him more weightage. The voting intensity this year is against Trump, just like in 2016 voting intensity was towards the change Trump pretended to represent, but did not deliver on. A lot of voters were sick n tired of Hillary in 2016, and in 2020 many voters are already sick n tired of Trump.

    Trump’s talk abt not leaving office if he loses and not accepting the result unless he himself deems it fair, will not win him any new voters.

    It’s like a molester leaving prison and saying he will not grab any more pussies, unless he absolutely has to.

    It’s not up to him to deem it fair or not. He serves the people and the office of POTUS does not belong to him, no matter what he thinks.

    If he loses, he’ll be going to the jail house in short order, and his children can visist him. It’ll be From Whitehouse to Jailhouse, an American journey, by Donaldo von Trumpo.

  14. @Tor597

    Aside from the morning show and the prime-time line-up, Fox News is as MSM as any of the others. This was clear in the way Chris Wallace came to Biden’s defence at times when a Trump parry would take things off script, e.g. Hunter’s Russian money.

    I would not be surprised if Biden was using an ear-piece … I would be surprised that he wasn’t. There was, however, a glimmer of the old Joe in the “Would you shut up, man!”

    • Replies: @Realist
  15. Dr. Doom says:

    Biden came off like an ass. His ever smug fake smiles did nothing.

    He was hyped up on something. Amphetamines probably.

    Biden lied about not being for his party’s platform.

    Then he claims he IS the Democratic Party.

    What a BUFFOON. He lost badly, and the outrage by the media shows it.

    Wallace was the one debating. Biden was just trying hard to not seem clueless.

    Trump will win in November. Biden has not fired up his base like Trump.

    • Replies: @MBlanc46
  16. Dan says:

    As I have said in the past, the left’s great failure is that it thinks its enemy is Trump and conservatives.

    This is wrong. Its enemy is reality.

    * “Gay marriage” will forever be empty nonsense, biologically speaking.

    * “Transgender” stuff will forever be empty nonsense, in the realm of reality.

    * Feminist ’empowerment’ that leaves women childless simply doesn’t work.

    * Socialism doesn’t work. It never has.

    * You can ‘solve’ racism endlessly, but groups that couldn’t innovate or invent won’t suddenly start doing so. You would only replace competent with incompetent until it all falls apart.

    * If you shut down fossil fuels your economy will be monkeyhammered.

    * Crime won’t go away if you keep blaming phantom racists who aren’t committing the crime while allowing actual criminals to go free.

    * If you destroy trust, you won’t have enough cooperation for an economy. Without law and order people retreat to primitive systems and the economy loses its power.

    * If you replace Europeans with third world immigrants, you will become like the third world.

    * If you can’t tolerate free speech you will be ignorant because your wrong ideas won’t be corrected.

    * If an organization gets too woke, it fails at its core competencies because you can only have one primary mission.

    * The left’s victory must be a pyrrhic one, because their ideas are all wrong. The intellectual collapse of the left was reflected in the response to the pandemic. Shutting everything down was positively insane, and the fact that the left wanted to do that shows they are lunatics. 2020 showed that the left will not self-correct but will crash.

    This is all incredibly painful to go through, but nature bats last and she bats 1000. The Gods of the Copybook Headings will not be denied.

    At least Trump has made his stand. Now if there is decline (I mean real CIVILIZATIONAL DECLINE), I think the left owns it lock stock and barrel.

  17. Dan says:

    It is a damn shame that America doesn’t really get a fair shot to choose its future, with Chris Wallace shitting on the process.

    But maybe when the left takes charge and we all get clubbed over and over on the skull by the Gods of the Copybook Headings, we will gradually learn. The Gods of the Copybook Headings can beat us relentlessly without getting tired. The left laughably thinks Donald Trump is their opponent.

    • Replies: @Dr.C. Fhandrich
  18. A123 says:

    Expectations were low for Biden:

    -1- Avoided a mental lapse.
    -2- Failed to counter with a credible explanation about Hunter’s financial dealings. He simply denied it.
    -3- Repeated the disproved lie about Trump disparaging U.S. Troops. Even John Bolton who quit the administration and dislikes Trump says that this never happened.

    Because of the low bar, Biden survived the night. However, #2 and #3 are such dramatic weak points that they will come back and hurt him in the coming weeks.
    _____

    Trump challenged stupid, biased moderator questions and refused to play by the Fake Stream Media rules. He deftly escaped the WN trap that was being laid.

    However, Trump did not manage to push Biden off script for more than an occasional few seconds. He successfully attached Biden to the Green New Deal, because Biden was unable to articulate how his Deal was different from that Deal.

    I concur with the general opinion. Trump “met expectations” and avoided errors.
    ____

    The event itself is a tie. Because of the low expectations for Biden, he may even gain a little ground in the short term.

    However, the bar will be much higher in the next debate.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
  19. @Dan

    Great comment, Dan!

    An [Agree] or [Thanks] wasn’t good enough. May I use this one verbatim, with attribution, of course?

  20. Realist says:
    @The Alarmist

    I would not be surprised if Biden was using an ear-piece … I would be surprised that he wasn’t. There was, however, a glimmer of the old Joe in the “Would you shut up, man!”

    Adderall is an amazing drug…but it has its limits…as Biden demonstrated

  21. @Dan

    I told a friend of mine, a hard core conservative with absolute faith in FOX news, that Chris Wallace, one of its “main stars”, was a registered Democrat. He just couldn’t believe it!! Can anyone imagine a registered Republican being allowed to have so much say on CNN???

  22. botazefa says:
    @GreatSocialist

    Trump’s talk abt not leaving office if he loses and not accepting the result unless he himself deems it fair, will not win him any new voters

    You’re wrong that Trump won’t win any new voters. I voted for Clinton in 2016 and I’m voting for Trump this time. My vote isn’t about Trump. My vote is against a candidate and party that welcomes everyone but white males while having the appalling audacity to simultaneously blame white men for every hurt feeling under the Democratic big tent.

    Trump is a protest vote. Get it?

    • Thanks: Buzz Mohawk
    • Replies: @lysias
  23. Realist says:
    @neutral

    Wallace is a Democrat, this idea that Fox is pro Republican is about 20 years old. Currently the majority of the talking heads are pro Democrat, there are some notable pro Trump ones, however the fact is that Fox is not the right wing outlet that the leftists are saying it is.

    Indeed. As I commented on the Divergence article yesterday: Remember Chris Wallace is a Jew and there is plenty of Jewish pressure at Fox News…as has been demonstrated recently.

    Wallace was and is a disgrace.
    The incident with Gingrich on Fox’s Outnumbered last week tells you all you need to know about Fox News’ position.

  24. iffen says:

    I’m just taking a cue from the Biden campaign, other Dems and the MSM, but I repeat myself, to say that they must have thought that it was not a good night for Biden. Otherwise, why would they suggest that they are considering the cancellation of future debates unless the rules are configured and rigged in a manner to enhance the ability of the moderators to help Biden even more than they do now?

    A focus group reported that some people had decided not to vote after watching the debate. This is good for Trump. I hope to God that Trump has political operatives smart enough to play up the refusal of Democratic Senators to meet with Judge Amy Barrett. That refusal to be fair-minded should be worth a few votes among the “open-minded” people in the mushy middle.

  25. Strong showing by both Trump and Wallace.

    Biden is not well

    He did repeat his lines pretty good (definitely getting whispers in the ear somehow), but you could see in his face at the Law Enforcers ement moment and the hunter exchange.

    Hope everyone saw the Telemundo polling: by 60/40 Spanish language viewers say Trump
    Won the debate.

    On CSPAN stream after they cut away video they left the audio running, and I heard people shout “we love you Trump” from the audience. Why are audience members agreeing to the hostile enemy rule that they be quiet the whole time?

  26. Nodwink says:

    I only watched a little bit. Wallace doesn’t seem to like Trump much, but Trump told Wallace to his face that he was too retarded/senile to complete that ‘point at the picture of the elephant’ dementia test, so what goes around comes around I guess.

  27. Goddammit, some of this shit is so easy, and Trump just can’t figure it out.

    Taxes? Some years I make money, some years I don’t. When I don’t make money I don’t pay income taxes. Even when I don’t make money, I pay the salaries of thousands of people, who all pay taxes. Billions of dollars go into the treasury every year as a result of the empire I built. Joe?

    Coronavirus? You’re damn right I was downplaying it. Doesn’t anyone remember March of this year? Store shelves were empty. People were getting in fistfights over toilet paper. I was trying to get people to calm down while we worked furiously to figure this thing out and get supplies where they were needed. It didn’t help that I had an idiot squawking “zenophobia” and “racism” every time he found himself in front of a camera.

    Race? Black mothers, is your son in jail? Your husband? If so, thank Joe and the 1994 crime bill. He also said going to school with your children would create a racial jungle. A racial jungle! Don’t you find that to be a little insulting?

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  28. Wency says:
    @TomSchmidt

    Yeah, the R line of attack is to basically say “Biden won’t be in charge, radical leftists and Kamala will be.” This is why Biden wins as long as he appears halfway capable.

    There was a video, and I think it was recorded fairly recently, in which Hillary was going on about how she won all the states that represent the future, that represent 2/3 of US GDP. Trump won all the backward states that have fallen behind. And my thought was “Wow, she still doesn’t understand why she lost. Or she does, and she’s bitter about the fact that wrong-thinking people still have a vote.”

    Biden (or his handlers) do seem to get it. The whole “Aw shucks, I’m just a boy from Scranton, PA trying to improve your healthcare” routine. He’s at least halfway plausibly trying to pose as President of all the US and not just 51% of it, something Hillary repeatedly failed to do, and something Trump can’t even imagine doing as he goes on about appointing judges — the most zero-sum thing imaginable — as the biggest success of his Presidency.

    Now, maybe Trump can really fire his base up that much. But my highly pro-Trump mother just found the whole thing embarrassing.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
  29. Biden wasn’t the drooling idiot that many on the right had hoped he would be, but he also came across as being frail and tired. Trump was full of energy and came out swinging.

    Were any minds changed last night? Probably not, but it was refreshing to see the old Trump back.

  30. Arclight says:

    Didn’t watch because I don’t think debates really move the needle much…that said, I think Trump is truly behind by a couple of points in all the key battlegrounds and it isn’t likely he will pick up enough of the currently undecided vote to get over the top. So we’ll see the inverse of 2016 – Trump will lose decisively in the EC because a handful of states go to by Biden by slim margins.

    The only real hope I see is that Trump turnout stays relatively close to 2016 and Biden minority turnout is even lower than it was for Hilary – perhaps a 1:3 chance this happens because I don’t think black or Latino voters are any more excited to get off the couch and over to the polling station in 2020 than they were in 2016.

    • Replies: @MBlanc46
  31. @Dan

    The left’s victory must be a pyrrhic one, because their ideas are all wrong…. 2020 showed that the left will not self-correct but will crash.

    Assuming, of course, that the destruction of society is an unintentional bug in the leftist project, as opposed to the prime imperative of the command program.

  32. @Intelligent Dasein

    The debates are pure empty spectacle. Literally just a contest of trying to look better than the other guy, you can’t actually harbor the delusion that debates are about “informing the public”?

    Nothing was mentioned that isn’t part of the acceptable range of “issue” discussion (basically none of which is even related to the workings of government, and what little was is only within the window of what the elites are considering anyway). I actually quite like Trump, but every time he has actually engaged in politics in the real sense, he’s either been dragged through some investigative circus or else had his actions quickly declared illegal by the judicial arm of the ruling class. That’s the real face of democratic government, “to try to do other than what we wish is illegal”, not the propaganda pieces of public “debate”.

    What’s good about Trump is his attempts to throw out or subvert every part of democratic political norms (which are really just dictats indistinguishable in practice from de jure law) in favor of goodness and decency. What’s good about him most definitely isn’t his participation in the 99.9% of democratic politics that are empty spectacle in service of deceiving and exploiting your countrymen. Really, two geriatrics yelling at each other, what about that inspires civic pride anyway?

  33. songbird says:

    Five minutes was all I could stomach. The tone should convince anyone that the West is on an ideological path, with no turnings, and the media are helping to cut the trail.

    If Wallace was unbiased, he would have asked both men who invented the light bulb.

    • Replies: @Realist
  34. @Dan

    Now if there is decline (I mean real CIVILIZATIONAL DECLINE), I think the left owns it lock stock and barrel.

    Who cares? Your country will still be trashed and an untold number of your countrymen will be immiserated or destroyed, what does it matter if they finally “learn their lesson”? It’s like saying after Dr. Evil activates his doomsday device then he’ll own there being no good neighborhoods anymore. Yeah sure, but the world’s still destroyed so that’s not much of a comfort.

    • Agree: V. K. Ovelund
  35. Catdog says:

    You know that from the Dem’s point of view they were thrashed, because all of the headlines are about what a horrible debate it was. I was watching CNBC and the talking heads on afterwards looked distressed and horrified, one saying it was “painful to watch”. Trump had been looking old and tired lately but tonight he looked good and was fired up. Biden looked very weak, and when Trump let him speak uninterrupted he rambled.

  36. @A123

    Mainstream media is leading this morning with “Trump failed to denounce White Supremacy.” Of course.

  37. A couple thoughts:
    Trump should have fought back on Wallace when he conflated white supremacists and “right wing militias”(anybody armed who defends themselves from violent rioters). His half answer and even acknowledging the conspiracy theories about secret white supremacists causing violence at antiwhite riots allowed Wallace and Biden to push Trump to denounce a nonexistent group and frame milquetoast conservatives like the Proud Boys as Nazis. They might as well have told Trump to denounce Mordor for how many white supreeeemists have taken to the street. And Wallace insinuating that Kyle Rittenhouse is one should be grounds for slander and everybody else he tarred should sue as well. That question was designed specifically to tie any resistance to violent, corporate-backed leftists as white supremacists.

    Trump as always was scant on details. His attacks on Hunter Biden were very shallow and he never elaborated on Burisma, instead shouting boomer talking points and bringing up his military discharge. The worst was when talking about critical race theory. He couldn’t even say that CRT attacks whites, he specifically referred to whites as a “certain people” when attacking the antiwhite seminars Wallace and Biden said were about “equality” and “tolerance.” The fact that Trump can’t even say it’s whites that are being taught to hate themselves allowed Wallace to continue to push myths that it’s about anything but hatred. If Trump can’t even say who is being discriminated against then how can he stand up to it? This was by far the most aggravating part because he pulls the same shit as Tucker Carlson; both refuse to refer to whites by name when talking about the egregious and explicit antiwhite hatred from their opponents. How fucking hard is it for Trump to say these grifters hate whites?

    And of course, nothing about immigration. But what’s to be expected from Chris Wallace and Fox News?

    • Replies: @Realist
  38. Realist says:
    @songbird

    If Wallace was unbiased, he would have asked both men who invented the light bulb.

    Wallace is a Jew that does not like Gentiles. That was obvious in his argument with Trump about riots and aggressive protests by the White Supremacists…the asshole was trying to equate White Nationalist protests with the Antifa/BLM riots of better than three months. To equate the two is god damn ridiculous. Fox News is Jewish controlled…with the possible exception of Carlson…we’ll see how long he lasts in light of his trashing Soros. Also it will be interesting to hear Carlson’s take on the debate.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @Dan
  39. Realist says:
    @Pop Warner

    Mr. Warner…excellent points all.

  40. lysias says:
    @botazefa

    Me too. I voted for Jill Stein in 2016, and this time I’m voting for Trump for the same reason that you are.

    • Thanks: botazefa, Buzz Mohawk
  41. anon[393] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tor597

    Fox, excepting Tucker and some pretenders some of the time, is neoYid.

    Shlomo Wallace is Yid.

    It was President Trump against Biden, Wallace, media, snakes in the shadows.

  42. The various impressions in this thread are interesting to read, so I’ll just add mine.

    I found the debate entertaining.

    I already knew that Trump is vulgar, that Republicans fear to acknowledge white Gentile interests, and that Democrats hate me and mine, so I almost did not bother to watch; but the debate kept everyone in my home awake and alert through sheer slapstick.

    Did I want an entertaining, slapstick debate? Answer: no, I wanted something like this; but, you know … I wasn’t going to get what I wanted, anyway, so at least I enjoyed the show.

  43. songbird says:
    @Realist

    I wonder how a Jew got the surname “Wallace.” In a lot of these situations, it seems like the names obscure the identity. I wonder if anyone ever made a study of it. Like what is the frequency of different Jewish surnames, and do people with faces on TV have names that are notably less specific to Jews, than would be expected from a random sample?

    • Replies: @Realist
    , @neutral
    , @res
  44. Realist says:
    @songbird

    I wonder how a Jew got the surname “Wallace.”

    That is something I have wondered also. Perhaps to hide Jewish origin.

    • Replies: @John Regan
    , @V. Hickel
  45. @Realist

    It may be an Anglicized version of Wallach, a fairly common Ashkenazi name.

    • Replies: @Realist
  46. V. Hickel says:
    @Realist

    also mike wallace, not sure if he is relation , famously distinguished himself, as a Joo, from whites. i believe he was implying that as such he can’t be rayciss.

    edit, lo and behold it’s not michael but ‘myron leon’

    real surname ‘Wallik’. ok he is our corrupt moderator’s father.

    Go figure. These people truly are the absolute nadir of humanity.

    • Replies: @Realist
  47. Realist says:
    @John Regan

    It may be an Anglicized version of Wallach, a fairly common Ashkenazi name.

    Sounds right.

  48. neutral says:
    @songbird

    I wonder how a Jew got the surname

    The same reason for “Ayn Rand” (Rosenbaum) or “John Stewart” (Leibowitz), being deceptive is hardwired in the jewish DNA. Of course when they are caught out they will resort to the “I did it because society rejects jews” excuse.

    • Replies: @Anon
  49. Dan says:
    @Realist

    Trump has been outstanding on a macro scale:

    – Amazingly pacifist
    – Steers the economy far better than can be hoped for
    – Inspires and talks up the economy in a way that avoids deep recessions
    – Endures extreme attack like nobody else could
    – Actually tries hard at fairness and civic nationalism
    – Represents faith and the hope, forgiveness and optimism that goes with it

    And the opposition is horrific:

    – lifting up criminals over the law abiding
    – favors the insanity of endless lockdowns
    – is intellectually dead, embracing censorship broadly and deeply while engaging in primitive groupthink centering around bland politically correct nonsense
    – does not favor excellence but rather a victim heirarchy
    – is mostly atheistic, which is ultimately nihilistic

    America could really use a miracle right now. I’ll be praying.

    • LOL: Corvinus
    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    , @Jay Fink
  50. @Dan

    I think that you are right, except on this point:

    Steers the economy far better than can be hoped for

    Vast budget deficits despite an economic boom will do that.

    To be fair, Trump’s international trade dealings have been practically perfect. Masterful. Not too little, not too much.

    Domestically, at least Trump didn’t screw the economy up, but I’d not praise him for heedless federal spending.

  51. Dan says:

    “Domestically, at least Trump didn’t screw the economy up, but I’d not praise him for heedless federal spending.”

    I’d give him an 8/10 for 2017-2019.

    I would give him a 25/10 for 2020.

    I mean how the F do you shut down the economy (which is what the Democrats did) and end up down only 4% at the end of the day. Every other country did much worse. He had to talk up the economy like crazy while mere mortals like myself lost hope. He had to stimulate as money velocity collapsed.

    Home improvement and tech have been booming to partly make up for the loss of hospitality and leisure. Industry seems to be generally continuing.

    And there isn’t much inflation either.

    That is about five orders of magnitude above expectations.

  52. Jay Fink says:
    @Dan

    I didn’t care for Trump’s mixed message in the debate saying he is for law and order but then criticizing Biden’s 1994 crime bill which put a disproportionate amount of blacks in prison. He criticized Biden’s use of the term “super predator”. Well repeat offenders are super predators and the bill wasn’t racist, it’s just a matter of blacks choosing to commit more crimes than whites.

    Of course the 1994 crime bill was a product of it’s (superior) time. When it comes to punishing criminals the 1994 version of Joe Biden was far better than the 2020 version of himself, Trump or practically any politician of either party.

  53. res says:
    @songbird

    The wikipedia page for Chris’ father explains it.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Wallace#Early_life

    Wallace, whose family’s surname was originally Wallik,[4] was born on May 9, 1918, in Brookline, Massachusetts[4] to Russian Jewish immigrant parents.[4][5] He identified as a Jew and claimed it was his ethnicity (instead of religion) throughout his life.

    It used to be common (and considered a desirable part of assimilating) to Americanize names after coming here.

    • Replies: @songbird
  54. Realist says:
    @V. Hickel

    Yes, Mike Wallace is Chris Wallace’s father.

  55. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Jay Fink

    I personally didn’t care for the debate. For my tastes the worst I have ever seen. Important topics were brought up and they didn’t get discussed thoroughly. It was just guys yelling and being nasty to each other which isn’t fulfilling to me. The moderator was as annoying as the candidates.

    Watching a televised debate is an amazingly silly way for people to decide how to vote. Not in a serious country anyway. Unless you think that the most important qualification for a political leader is the ability to lie convincingly on television.

  56. @Wency

    something Trump can’t even imagine doing as he goes on about appointing judges — the most zero-sum thing imaginable — as the biggest success of his Presidency.

    I recall a comment by Hillary in 2016: how can people vote for Trump? Don’t they know he will cause their retirement accounts to go Down? This at a time when the median amount of retirement savings in the USA was $5000: in other words, Half the people in the USA had no retirement assets to worry about losing.

    And last night, I heard Trump use Hillary’s line as a reason to vote for him over Biden.

    Your comment really highlights how out of touch with his potential voters Trump. That’s understandable, but apparently no one advising him told him that nobody cares about judges,or “the radical left,” or really worries about Socialism. Not when 40% of people earning less than 40k lost their jobs due to Covid; for any number, redistributing wealth from the Crony Capitalists wetting their beaks at the top of of the economy sounds pretty good. The Professional Managerial class (PMC) that does own 401k assets won’t vote for him for social reasons.

    He needs someone to tell him that the inside baseball concerns of Republican Party regulars, like “socialism,” don’t matter a fig to the voters who could vote for Trump. They’re hurting; they don’t want Obamacare taken away, and they want to know that someone cares. That looked more like Biden, even though we know he doesn’t, either.

    If he did nothing but run commercials of Betsy DeVos making Eisgruber, President of Princeton, eat his words, and promise to do the same to the officious overlords making people kneel, he’d win every vote below the PMC. That epic trolling is the greatest bit of theater I’ve seen in years.

    • Agree: Wency
    • Replies: @Wency
  57. It was positively maddening to watch Chris Wallace, democrat party moderator of the debates, BATE president Trump with the will you denounce “white supremacists” bullshit, when America has been burning from one coast to the other for over four months with fires caused by democrat party supporters, who seem to see themselves as supremacists of all kinds not just the “white kind, and the democratic party leadership is fine with it, won’t denounce this violence at all!!!

  58. songbird says:
    @res

    I suppose it might have even been the whim of a bureaucrat. Maybe, Wallace originally contained a fricative that couldn’t be duplicated in English.

    It’s pretty strange to consider the variant origins of some names, that strictly speaking were not English to start with. For instance, Costello sounds Italian, and the famous actor was Italian, but it is probably more common as an Irish name. Cohen can be Irish or Jewish. Keller can be Irish, Jewish, or German.

    Ideally, it would be good to know the ethnicity of everyone in the media. Just as a sort of public disclosure to reveal possible biases, kind of like how the ingredients are disclosed in food items.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  59. songbird says:

    I haven’t watched a lot of presidential debates. But I wonder if this would be the first one where the term “white supremacist” was used.

    Probably will become frequent in future elections.

  60. @Thomm

    The only major error Trump made was not to attack Biden over his insane wish to ban fracking. The stupid ‘climate change’ question should have been diverted into how Biden wants to ban fracking, sending oil prices high

    That would work, but he can’t do it. Have you been paying attention? Dumb Prole President loves high oil prices now:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/business/dealbook/oil-price-opec-deal.html

    People like a fighter

    Trump’s not a fighter. He’s a loudmouth.

    Bryan Caplan wrote in 2016 that:

    Populist policy preferences go hand-in-hand with intellectual laziness and intellectual impatience. As a result, populist voters fail to hold their leaders’ feet to the proverbial fire – allowing wiser, elitist heads to prevail.

    https://www.econlib.org/archives/2016/02/adhd_shall_save_1.html

    It’s hard to look back on the past four years and not think Caplan has been extraordinarily prescient. In fact, it’s surprising we don’t have 6$ gas already.

  61. @Thomm

    We were big Trump boosters in mid-2015, don’t lump this blog in with the NRO crowd!

  62. @TomSchmidt

    Biden beat Sanders 65%-35%. Clinton only beat him 55%-45%, despite the fact that he was less well known in 2016. This further to speaks to your point about Clinton being uniquely despised and Biden not.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
  63. @silviosilver

    Is that a real email contact? I’ll send it to you.

    This reminds me of late 90s computer gaming days. An opponent would pause the game and demand a screen shot to make sure you weren’t running some hack.

  64. @GreatSocialist

    He can’t control himself.

    He does seem uniquely unable to have a thought go through his mind that he leaves unexpressed.

  65. MBlanc46 says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    That someone as rational as you ID (despite your belief in natural kinds) believes in a Trump victory gives me hope. My fear is that, even should there be enough “silent” Trump voters to take an honest election (at least in the EC), which is by no means clear to me, massive vote fraud by the Dems will give them a substantial victory.

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
  66. MBlanc46 says:
    @Dr. Doom

    Unfortunately, DD, in elections it’s the quantity (real and manufactured) not the quality that counts.

  67. MBlanc46 says:
    @Arclight

    That’s a reasonable analysis, Arclight. Factoring in massive vote fraud by the Dems, it’s hard to see how Trump doesn’t get buried in both the total and EC vote.

  68. I always find it insanely funny when Trump supporters say their man(Trumpo) looked strong or dominant in any debate or speech.

    Trump has never been a fighter, he is a fuckboy and a complainer.

    When Justin Trudeau had a beef with another politician in Canada, they settled it in the ring with boxing gloves and Trudeau TKOed him. Anybody think that Trumpo el Bonespurro would do that, even when younger and in the best shape of any human being alive?

    It’s good that Trump has given voice to many of the complaints and unhappiness that white supremacists have and also unemployed rural folks who have lost their factory jobs, mining jobs, way of life and self-respect, but he never cared for them in reality and just wanted their votes.

    This guy Trump is simply a conman, he’ll find out what you are upset about the most, then pretend to acknowledge it, and say that he’s with you, and he’ll solve this unfairness and injustice for you. Then he’ll get your vote or your money, and after that you can fuck off eventually when you realize he was never interested in helping you, like the endearingly naive Ann Coulter did.

    Or you can hang on in your self-delusions and keep on trying to lick Trump’s ass, hoping that he will throw some crumbs your way. Even regarding the Proud Boys, if the devil appeared to Trump right now n said, “Donny Boy, I’ll guarantee your re-election for the price of all the Proud Boys getting testicular cancer, what say you?”

    Trump would say yes without hesitation.

    • Agree: Supply and Demand
    • Troll: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    , @Talha
  69. @MBlanc46

    My fear is that…massive vote fraud by the Dems will give them a substantial victory.

    Well, let’s talk about that fear for a moment.

    This idea has received a lot of attention lately. It’s come up in numerous threads and it was even mentioned in the debate itself. Clearly people are very concerned about it, and not without good reason. But I wonder, how could the Democrats be successful with this? Trump is alive to the possibility; his campaign operatives and his lawyers and his Justice Department certainly are, too. Every Republican headquarters will be on the lookout for voter fraud. The Democrats do not own the entire media and they don’t control all the courts. They will be exposed, and then they’ll be like the dog who caught the car. I don’t think the American people are going to accept a president who steals his way into office with “massive voter fraud.” I don’t even think the majority of Democrats will accept that. With Biden conceding that “they’ll count the votes and that’ll be the end of it,” I think they’re walking back any expectations of mail-in coup.

    I believe that the Biden campaign has known for several weeks that they will most likely lose the election; his voice and his body language during the debate were corroborative of that. He is going to keep fighting it out because you never know, but they are already preparing to simply consolidate power as the shadow government.

  70. @Intelligent Dasein

    I hope you’re right, but I don’t think so. There’s a lot of Kool Aid sloshing around out there, and lots of thirsty people.

    • Agree: V. K. Ovelund
  71. Talha says:

    Bruh…baby got back!

    Peace.

  72. I’m sure Biden was on some kind of stimulant, and it seemed like he was reading from a teleprompter or maybe just staring at some fixed point in the audience. In any event, I thought he held up way better than I expected. I thought he’d get severely rattled by Trump’s tactics, but he held his train of thought in each of his talking points, with minimal fumbling. I think that Trump’s antics were more useful in 2016 when he was an outsider taking on the establishment GOP and then Clinton. For a man who’s been POTUS for almost four years, these antics were embarrassing. Faux News said that he had not prepared for the debate and it showed. He absolutely dominated the talking, and yet offered up so little substance, preferring instead to embellish his accomplishments and then go nuclear by bringing up Hunter Biden’s dishonorable discharge and cocaine use. Debates are forums for persuation, to speak directly to the American people, regardless if the moderators or networks are biased.

    His handling of the white supremacy question was weak. He should have thrown it back at Wallace and asked if white supremacists are burning businesses and police precincts. Instead he let Wallace and Biden decide who he’d tell to back down – a politically marginal group that is intensly loyal to Trump. But hey, maybe he’s playing 6D chess now. Think of the men that we each admire – maybe a father or a coach or a boss or a teacher or hell, some historical figure – would any of them have acted like Trump did in that debate?

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
  73. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:

    Democracy has failed. Trump will consolidate power and form a junta with the military. Purges of the Left will occur with Gitmo installing crematoriums. A new SA will be formed to round up the communists. They will be gathered in penal battalions, most of which will be used for human wave assaults against Chinese positions in South China sea. After demonstrating proper ruthlessness, the Russians will make a deal carving up Europe for military cooperation. China will be offered concessions into India as a quid pro quo. The weak shall be eliminated from the body politic with a Brave New World after a worldwide purge against godless Communism.

    Hail Victory

    • Replies: @PhilK
  74. nebulafox says:
    @Talha

    How I think of the two:

    • LOL: Talha
    • Replies: @Talha
  75. @NoobSpyBot

    His handling of the white supremacy question was weak. He should have thrown it back at Wallace and asked if white supremacists are burning businesses and police precincts.

    I too wish that Trump had followed your advice, though I did not expect that he would. However, …

    Instead he let Wallace and Biden decide who he’d tell to back down – a politically marginal group that is intensly loyal to Trump.

    Judging by their own words, most explicit pro-whites seem intensely disloyal to Trump. They believe that Trump let them down and then sold out to the Jews.

    Trump is a fat slob but a relatively good president, all things considered. I have no idea who will win and, on balance, have little preference (I intend to vote Trump); but am heeding warnings of the realistic prospect of a disorderly election and a consequent, possible (I did not say, “likely”) rupture in civic order. Prudent basic preparation (food, water, heating fuel and maybe ammo) is indicated.

    • Replies: @NoobSpyBot
  76. JackOH says:

    Is there any reasoned speculation on what the first decisions out of the box will be in January 2021 by either President Trump or President Biden? (I expect a Trump victory by a hair’s-breadth, but, judging by the comments above, a contested vote count with unclear consequences is also a possibility.)

  77. Talha says:
    @nebulafox

    Someone compiled a bunch of screenshots showing quite a bit of bipartisan agreement that this debate was horrible. With the snippets I saw, I’d have to agree. Hey, at least Americans can still be united in some things!

    I also had kind of a debate myself that very night; should I watch Leviathan or Deepstar Six…?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    , @songbird
  78. Wency says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    From what I read of leftist material, it seems to me that both sides live in echo chambers that assume the other is engaging in massive fraud. Objectively, if you believe that all votes are created equal and that 100% participation is the democratic ideal (I don’t believe this but I think most people do), then I think Democrats mostly have a stronger case. Republicans actually do a lot, within the bounds of the law, to keep undesirables away from the voting booth.

    For example, I do agree with Dems that things like ID card laws are more about keeping certain classes of people away from the booth than they are about preventing fraud. But unlike Dems, I don’t have a problem with this — if you can’t manage to run your own life well enough to maintain a valid driver’s license, then maybe your opinion on running our polity isn’t needed.

  79. nebulafox says:
    @Talha

    Welp, as a Muslim, you cannot drink, so I cannot help you with coping mechanisms. 😉

    All seriousness, now, sometimes all you can do is laugh at them. Pisses them off.

    • Agree: Talha
  80. songbird says:
    @Talha

    I also had kind of a debate myself that very night; should I watch Leviathan or Deepstar Six…?

    It’s strange how many underwater science-fiction movies came out in 1989.

    • Replies: @Talha
  81. The issue with Trump is not merely that he’s a selfish s-head. Most politicians are, certainly his opponent is. But they are smart enough to know that other people aren’t. Trump doesn’t. He thinks everyone is as selfish as he is, thus his response to coronavirus. He just assumed everyone was gonna blame him for a foreign virus that has struck most of the world. Because that’s what he would have done, lashed out at the guy at the top despite all evidence to the contrary. So he decided to downplay it.

    The big October “surprise” this year is gonna be Halloween. The entitled millennial generation is already fed up with the lockdowns. Halloween as the celebration of sluttery is the most important date on the youngin’ calendar. They aren’t gonna let the olds tell them they can’t go slut around just because the olds don’t want to be sickened and die. And Trump’ll be right there with them, assuming that if he doesn’t make things maximally safe for thottery, he’ll be voted out of office. So there will be these massive parties, and the media will blare it out for days, so that when people go to the polls on Nov 3, the image of some thot who is not social distancing will be seared onto their eyelids. Ordinarily crazed behavior by college students benefits the Republicans. Not this time. Many people will be voting for the first time in their lives for the Democrat. I know I will

  82. @V. K. Ovelund

    Good points. Interesting that they mentioned Proud Boys anyway. It really underscores that blatant white identitarianism is so de minimis in this country – for now. Would have been cleverer for them to get him to acknowledge systemic racism, as Biden did. I agree that the outcome will produce unrest, even if Biden legitimately wins. We know that’ll happen for sure if Trump wins.

    • Replies: @A123
  83. Talha says:
    @songbird

    Yeah – totally forgot about The Abyss…weird. Wonder why?

    Peace.

  84. Anon[252] • Disclaimer says:
    @neutral

    I’ve noticed a lot of jews have place names like wiener ( from vienna) or frankfurter . I always figured it was an attempt to declare themselves a “local”

  85. Former Dem candidate Marianne Williamson was on Jacobin mag’s stream and made an excellent point that is quite incisive about the mental space of 68er burnouts; she raved about Joe’s jocular aura and positive vibes.

    I’m inclined to agree, Trump had “virgin” in the memetic sense of the term written all over him.

    A clear win for Chad Joe.

    • Replies: @Talha
  86. Tea Party II or Civil War II after Biden’s inauguration?

    The evil and treasonous politician slobs in the rancid Republican Party are deliberately taking a dive in the upcoming election so they can recreate the insipidly banal and harmless Tea Party type crap that deflects away any anger against the plutocrats and billionaires and oligarchs. These Republican Party pukes will duck and weave and outgas and try to prevent any uprising of meaningfully positive politics from the European Christian ancestral core of the USA.

    Teddy “Goldman Sachs Hubby” Cruz will be the leader of this bunch of pukes pushing for more and more endless war on behalf of Israel and more tax cuts for the wealthy and transnationalism and free trade deal scams and more and more mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration and multicultural mayhem and more useless bluster about globaloney issues that don’t amount to a hill of beans with more and more talk of deregulation and debt and phony shows of Israel First Patriotism from these treasonous slobs in the Republican Party.

    Nasty treasonous globalizer donor-controlled politician whores such as Teddy Cruz and Tom Cotton and Josh Hawley and Marco Rubio and the remaining politician treasonites in the Republican Party will rely on the globalizer-controlled corporate propaganda apparatus to make sure they are the only game in town for White Core America.

    Meanwhile, young White Core Americans will be calling for SOVEREIGN DEBT SECESSIONISM and total debt repudiation and these same Whites will be calling for Federal Reserve Bank Guaranteed Monthly Income portions to get some revenge on the Greedy White Geezers born before 1965.

    Civil War II will be DEBT SECESSIONISM and DOLLAR DESTRUCTION. Civil War II will be about young White Core Americans slipping out from underneath the massive millstone of debt the Greedy White Geezers born before 1965 have left for them.

    Dollar destruction and currency implosion were baked into the cake from the last two asset bubbles and this current asset bubble in stocks and bonds and real estate is bigger than the two previous asset bubbles combined and young White Core Americans will push for total debt destruction and total asset bubble implosion to stop this Greedy White Geezer madness from continuing on much longer. It’s good that Greedy White Geezer Globalizer Biden will be in the White House when the young White Core Americans financially liquidate most of the Greedy White Geezers born before 1965.

    Tea Party II ain’t gonna happen because the White Core American peasants with pitchforks are far too riled up to be pacified with some Murdoch type conservative crap that doesn’t involve hammering billionaires or getting the privately-controlled Federal Reserve Bank to work for them instead of against them.

    Say Not To Tea Party II

    Say Yes To Civil War II

  87. Talha says:
    @Supply and Demand

    Chad Joe

    I remember a clip where he told Trump to shut up. Now, I don’t think that belongs in a debate (and the moderator’s job is to make sure things don’t get out of hand), but the delivery was spot on – the tone had an underlying “Man, will you shut the hell up or do I have to come over there and give you a beat down on national TV?” He didn’t sound geriatric at that moment.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
  88. iffen says:
    @Talha

    I think that it would be a bad idea to try to out-Trump Trump.

    • Replies: @Talha
  89. Talha says:
    @iffen

    I agree here. I’m just saying homeboy delivered it well for an old guy.

    If you’re going to insult, do it right.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
  90. @Audacious Epigone

    There was an interesting dynamic with Bernie this time. He had Warren sucking up his oxygen, but something else as well: it became obvious that he really wasn’t serious. I learned this from Tucker Carlson who was curiously supportive of Bernie through January, when he realized that Bernie just wanted to complain, but not do what was needed to win. As Trump said at the debate: if Warren had dropped out before Super Tuesday, Biden would not have won over Bernie.

    Why didn’t Bernie cut a deal with Warren? He should have had poll position, except blacks in South Carolina, a state that the D’s will win when there’s no longer any hope for the R’s, reactivated Biden.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  91. @GreatSocialist

    Gosh, you sure make me wish we had a President like Justin Trudeau!

  92. iffen says:
    @Talha

    Wait!

    What do you mean “for an old guy”?

    • Replies: @Talha
  93. A123 says:
    @NoobSpyBot

    underscores that blatant white identitarianism is so de minimis in this country

    The Proud Boys are not a WN organization. The photo below shows one of their members, complete with a Bars & Stars flag patch.

    Almost all off the violent Fascist Stormtroopers of Antifa are White. The action wing of BLM is also very pale.

    PEACE 😇
    _______

    https://officialproudboys.com/proud-boys/proud-boy-of-the-week-andrew-duncomb-aka-the-black-rebel/
     

  94. Talha says:
    @iffen

    I should have mentioned how he seems to be a fragile and not-all-there old guy as opposed to just an “old guy”.

    Sorry old-timer, didn’t mean to include you; I know you can deliver insults like the best of them.

    Peace.

    • Thanks: iffen
  95. Talha says:
    @GreatSocialist

    This guy Trump is simply a conman, he’ll find out what you are upset about the most, then pretend to acknowledge it, and say that he’s with you, and he’ll solve this unfairness and injustice for you. Then he’ll get your vote or your money, and after that you can fuck off eventually when you realize he was never interested in helping you

    Probably. I do think he is a better actor than he has let on in the past…but that just goes to show you how bad the other side is when people are picking The Orange One as the lesser of two evils.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Talha
  96. Talha says:
    @Talha

    This includes a significant (growing) amount of Muslims. This just came our recently from the ISPU:

    I think it is a mistake to think the white stats are all due to increasing numbers of white converts. I’m sure much of it is, but there are also Albanians and Bosnians to take into account.

    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  97. Corvinus says:

    “Trump thus took a risk he had to take by constantly badgering and interrupting Biden and Wallace. The rude interjections repeatedly knocked Biden off his game. Trump was the arrogant, obnoxious ass everyone knows him to be. Biden was the frail and rattled geriatric people who haven’t followed things closely hadn’t realized he had become.”

    All this suggests that who is perceived as the winner in any one debate is quite contingent. Gee, I wonder who said this…

  98. Just have Jerry Springer “moderate” the next shit show.

    • LOL: Talha
  99. Anonymous[153] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    I always thought that if Evangelical Christians were smart, they would “team up” with Muslims and fight for social conservative values in the culture war.

    Instead they spend so much time hating Muslims. I personally believe that it is racism manifesting itself – however it’s totally unacceptable for whites to be racist so it comes out against Islam – a religion not a race – a proxy for “brown” person too. I used to buy it too until I met a bunch of them. Still a threat on a group level but that’s another story.

    I could see Muslims voting for a President Pence type – if he dropped the Zionism and anti Muslim dogwhistles. What do you think?

    Anyways, Muslims are not resisting western poz well. Just the other day my Muslim friend was lecturing me for not being “inclusive” enough of LGBT people lol.

  100. @Dan

    April was the highest month for personal incomes in the history of the country because of the monetary stimulus-funded fiscal stimulus. Implementing a UBI of $1000/month for all America adults would send GDP through the roof. At some point the bill for perpetual balance sheet growth and free money to borrow will come due.

    • Agree: Mark G.
  101. PhilK says:
    @Anon

    I’m imagining this being sung by Andy Kaufman, wearing a Mighty Mouse costume.

  102. @Dan

    The entire nature of American political discourse is so childish, simple-minded, and using an essentially false, inaccurate, and lying vocabulary that nothing will be accomplished unless and until the political language is swept clean and rebuilt. We need a Monster Zero where the three heads are Orwell, Wittgenstein, and Plato.

    I’d add a fourth head for Nietzsche, but it would be counter-productive since almost nobody has a solid grasp of Nietzsche.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  103. Talha says:
    @Anonymous

    I personally believe that it is racism manifesting itself – however it’s totally unacceptable for whites to be racist so it comes out against Islam – a religion not a race – a proxy for “brown” person too.

    I think it’s difficult to describe the phenomenon by one angle. I’m pretty sure this is valid for some of the hatred; basically some whites hating on a mostly brown minority. But this won’t cover everything. My wife (who is a white convert) once told me how she was told by a black Evangelical-type lady (fairly openly) that seeing her in her hijab reminded her of 9/11.

    And if we assume they take their beliefs seriously…and some of them truly believe that our Prophet (pbuh) was the antichrist (I seek refuge in Allah), then its pretty straightforward that they would oppose us as a priority. See, under that paradigm; screwed up leftists and liberals are misguided and off the path, but our creed is simply evil, devil’s handiwork and irredeemable from the outset – so hostility makes total sense.

    For what it’s worth, here is one Evangelical minister’s perspective:

    The Christian group we have had the most cooperation with have been the Catholics, bar none. Whether it comes to interfaith dialogue, working jointly on the legal front for religious-rights issues, collaboration in charity efforts, etc.

    I could see Muslims voting for a President Pence type – if he dropped the Zionism and anti Muslim dogwhistles. What do you think?

    Huge. I think he would sweep a lot of Muslims. Even my younger cousins who are official DNC delegates – they are often at odds and do not feel comfortable with the party line on a lot of these moral issues, but they feel completely unwelcome by the other side. I remember recently one of my girl cousins went to a local Republican town hall type gathering (at the suggestion of a Republican she has done some work with in the city), she said she had never had so many people staring at her with obvious hostility to the point where she called her husband to drive over and be with her because she felt threatened. She admitted, their moral and family-values platform is a natural fit for our community (she has three kids herself and covers her hair). Such is the situation.

    If the hostility was dropped, I could see a large influx of Muslims into the Republican party. I remember in the late 90s, almost all the major Muslim groups were in support of Bush II instead of Gore. I myself am a registered Republican though the only person I have actually supported has been Dr. Ron Paul (who actually had a lot of Muslims hopeful for him).

    Just the other day my Muslim friend was lecturing me for not being “inclusive” enough of LGBT people lol.

    (Sigh) Yes, that’s one issue where we are debased instead of based:

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Wency
  104. Talha says:

    Is this a sign of desperation? Because it sure looks like it:
    “Biden 2020, because he owns a dog!”

    Peace.

  105. Wency says:
    @TomSchmidt

    To your point, I hadn’t even heard about that Devos/Eisgruber bit — that’s indeed a terrific play.

  106. A123 says:
    @Anonymous

    The biggest problem with your proposal is the fact that Islam is diametrically opposed to Judeo-Christian values.

    The Islamic propaganda film ‘Cuties’ is a perfect example of the problem. Making little girls available to Muslim men is a core belief. Muhammad raped Aisha when she was 9, and Muslim men must do as Muhammad did.

    PEACE 😇

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  107. Anyone who thinks Trump didn’t smack the shit out of Biden in the first debate is as senile as sleepy Joe!
    As for Trump’s interrupting and aggressiveness, that is one of the reasons he was elected. He wouldn’t let Chris Wallace get away with allowing Biden to side step or completely refuse to answer questions. However Wallace had no problem interrupting Trump when Trump was answering questions, unlike Biden.
    The debate was Trump vs tag team Biden / Wallace. And Trump doing what he had to do to not allow himself to be taken down.
    Trump being Trump is exactly why his base voted for him. He fights and fights dirty if necessary.
    Keep in mind it was the Democrats who took the gloves off and decided to not play by the Marquis of Queensbury rules of decorum decades ago.
    Say what you will about Trump, but he is a master debater, wether sparing with political opponents or the press.
    As a previous commenter noted The Audacious One is frequently wrong in his prognostications…
    Trump for the win 2020!

  108. @Anonymous

    Your thesis is wrong, because even if evangelical Christian’s wanted to team up politically with Muslims, there’s no way in hell the Muslims are going to be willing to make a pact with the devil with the “infidels!”

  109. @TomSchmidt

    As Trump said at the debate: if Warren had dropped out before Super Tuesday, Biden would not have won over Bernie.

    That’s rhetorically effective as an attempt to split progressives and neo-liberals, but I don’t see any evidence that is actually true. Sanders’ ceiling was well under 50% this time around.

  110. @The Germ Theory of Disease

    almost nobody

    The word “almost” doesn’t belong!

  111. MBlanc46 says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    I hope that your analysis is correct, ID. I live in the belly of the beast—Cook County, Illinois—so perhaps I’m a bit oversensitive to Dem vote manufacturing. It is a real thing, however. I’d wager that similar activities occur in places such as Philadelphia, Detroit, Flint, and Milwaukee. There are very few Repub election judges in places such as those. That said, I grew up in DuPage County, Illinois, which at that time billed itself as the most Repub county in the nation. There was some evidence of Repub vote finagling there, so it’s not a completely partisan thing. But the Repubs are rank amateurs compared to the Dems.

  112. @A123

    I’m increasingly coming to agree with Vox Day about this issue:  if it exalts or involves kiddy-diddling, it’s evil.

    I do some amateur photography (when of people, it’s in public), and I’ve had a policy for well over two decades of not taking a picture of an underdressed minor without a parent in the frame and nothing sexualized.  Not something I want to record; I keep it clean.

  113. @Audacious Epigone

    Are you saying that because you are dismissive of Nietzsche, or because you understand (correctly) that his slippery, self-contradictory method is not a bug but a feature?

    Nietzsche was a great critic, not a great positive philosopher. He fumigated the room, he didn’t build a new room. There is no point to “following” Nietzsche’s “teachings,” because he doesn’t have any. It would be like saying you’re a “follower” of Kenneth Tynan.

    People who say they are Nietzscheans have already failed the first test of understanding Nietzsche.

  114. Talha says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Nietzsche was a great critic, not a great positive philosopher.

    Solid assessment.

    Peace.

  115. nebulafox says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Nietzsche’s like Dostoevsky: he’s meant to used as a psychologist.

  116. nebulafox says:
    @Anonymous

    The Muslim presence in the United States is not numerically significant enough for this to matter.

    I do think it’s a spectacularly dumb idea to try and impose liberal values on other societies if you supposedly reject them in your own, but that’s old news. 2016 couldn’t have revealed more emphatically how deeply the legacy of Bushism has been rejected by base voters.

    >Anyways, Muslims are not resisting western poz well.

    The second-generation kids in the United States tend to be rather Americanized, and thus open to SJWism like other second-generation immigrant demographics. It’s not like Europe.

  117. @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Are you saying that because you are dismissive of Nietzsche, or because you understand (correctly) that his slippery, self-contradictory method is not a bug but a feature?

    The latter.

    There isn’t a Nietzschean system per se but there are Nietzschean concepts that have to be contended with, like master vs slave morality.

  118. @nebulafox

    B”how deeply the legacy of Bushism has been rejected”

    While it’s a useful taxonomical term just to keep a discussion moving efficiently, in reality there was no Bush in “Bushism”. I have it on good personal authority just exactly how mush-brained GWB was; you wouldn’t trust him as assistant manager of a candy store. He began life as a moderately-smart fellow with great connections; but he drank a LOT, and he did a MOUNTAIN of cocaine, and he was intellectually lazy, and had bad habits of mind, and was intellectually incurious on a heroic scale, and was a smug a$$hole who thought he could dominate the room with “a certain spurious charm” (Frank O’Hara) and nothing else. I’ve met drunk frat boys from third-tier schools vomiting in the alley who had greater acumen than GWB.

    Bush’s agenda was the agenda of his Zionist puppet masters. Think of the Iraq war, now that it’s in the rear view mirror and we can dissect it…

    Cui Bono? Jews. They got their regional enemy defeated, splintered, and plunged in chaos. I thought we were there to STEAL ALL THA OILZ!!!11!!!1! Because BushHitler!!!1!!

    Who paid?, in blood and treasure and ruined lives? Dumb goyim.

    During the lead-up to the Iraq war, I offered a bet to a wealthy Jewish rah-rah gung-ho save-the-Kurds executive: $100 says there are more draft-age Jewish males in just the freshman class of HLS, than there are forward-deployed Jewish soldiers in the entire US Army.

    He wouldn’t take the bet. Disclosure’s a bitch, right?

  119. Wency says:
    @Talha

    For the record, I’m all for exploring the possibility of a social conservative alliance between Christians and Muslims. I don’t know if it will happen, but I don’t think it has a chance among the masses until both parties see the secular culture as the greater threat. My Boomer mother isn’t even close to that point. I didn’t cross it until World War T took off, circa 2015.

    I will observe that at one point, Protestant vs. Catholic was seen as a very stark division in this country, and Catholics were seen as a core Dem constituency, with similar undertones of core/historic America vs. newcomer/fringe America. But nowadays I think the average conservative Protestant on the street sees himself and the conservative Catholic as having far more goals and values in common than either does with the liberal Protestant / liberal Catholic.

    Christianity and Islam will probably always be more alien to one another than Protestant is to Catholic, but I still wonder if the gap between them might follow a similar trajectory.

    • Replies: @Talha
  120. Talha says:
    @Wency

    I don’t think it has a chance among the masses until both parties see the secular culture as the greater threat.

    Yup.

    Christianity and Islam will probably always be more alien to one another than Protestant is to Catholic, but I still wonder if the gap between them might follow a similar trajectory.

    Indeed – future will tell. There have been historic alliances in the past; as far past as when the Mongols where seen as the biggest threat to recent collaboration against various Communist influences across the world.

    Peace.

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Audacious Epigone Comments via RSS