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He has a lot of work in front of him to stake out territory on Mars, but Elon Musk’s weekly trips to the moon are becoming a regular thing. He tweets about a financial instrument, any financial instrument, and it immediately shoots up by double-digit percentages.

What’s going on here? A few possibilities come to mind, with potential overlap for some or all of them:

– Tesla is a big, juicy short target. By market capitalization Tesla has become the largest car company in the world. It’s not even close. Tesla is 20x a Ford or a General Motors, 8x Volkswagon, 4x Toyota, the next closest. Despite constituting nearly half of the world’s automobile market cap, Tesla accounts for around 0.01% of the world’s automobiles. There are a lot of speculators who’ve taken haircuts shorting Tesla. What goes up must not necessarily come down, but it probably will. Who wants to take that risk, though? Musk is signaling to future shorts that the path is perilous. Think the reddit raiders were bad? Musk is worth nearly $200 billion. He can remain ‘irrational’ far longer than Melvin Capital can remain solvent.

– Musk is passing comment on the reality that the global financial system exists in a post-fundamentals world. One guy’s tweets have more influence on a company’s stock price than the company’s quarterly numbers do. And what is said at an FOMC meeting has more influence on the broader market than any of the various economic indicators–jobs reports, manufacturing indices, inflation measures, trade balances, etc–do. Dogecoin was created as a lark. Musk pumping it for personal gain is possible but seems petty. Even with its two meteoric hops up, the entire market is one-half of one percent of Musk’s net worth.

– Musk wants to smack around the financial class. Much of what he’s done has been government-funded, particularly by NASA. There are more than a few members of Big Capital who have positioned themselves to profit from his demise. He enjoyed beating them before and he’s enjoying beating them now. Big Capital lost over $30 billion shorting Tesla last year. This wasn’t lost on the reddit raiders, either.

– He has fun poking sacred cows. While most of his class is worried about overpopulation, he’s worried about a population crash (he has six surviving children). When he should be doing corporate media, he goes on Joe Rogan. He’s South African and his brother and former business partner admires Charles Murray.

 
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  1. I’ve wondered about Musk’s politics. On a certain level, he seems libertarian-minded.

    On the one hand, he did come from South Africa. Not that there aren’t plenty of delusional white people there, and he did once throw white South Africans under the bus, by saying he got out of town because he didn’t want to oppress blacks.

    On the other hand, I vaguely recall another quote, where he was skeptical about China successfully fixing its population problems by importing people. He said something like, “there aren’t enough Indonesians”, which might have been blank-slatism or a very oblique and cagey way of saying that he didn’t think it was a good idea. In a way, it is remarkable that he touched on the subject at all – even though it would be considered extremely oblique, if it was actually partly in reference to the West.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @songbird

    he did once throw white South Africans under the bus, by saying he got out of town because he didn’t want to oppress blacks

    What was the context? There is a flippant, funny way of saying your white flight is for the good of the non-whites you're leaving behind. Because you're such a bad person, white flight is a moral imperative. Out to the suburbs we go, then!

  2. Peter Thiel called Musk a negative role model because he is too hard to copy

    After Steve Jobs, he is like the one guy who is innovating

  3. and he did once throw white South Africans under the bus, by saying he got out of town because he didn’t want to oppress blacks.

    100% sure that this was not sincere, very sure that he is aware that blacks are an inferior race. People are forced to say these things, he can hardly say he left South Africa because it is full of blacks.

    • Replies: @Servant of Gla'aki
    @neutral


    100% sure that this was not sincere, very sure that he is aware that blacks are an inferior race. People are forced to say these things, he can hardly say he left South Africa because it is full of blacks.
     
    There's nothing inconsistent in understanding the, ahem, civilizational disparities amongst the races, and yet also preferring not to live in an explicitly racial supremacist state.*

    *The term "White supremacy" gets used like a comma these days, but it's an accurate descriptor for P.W. Botha's government. Not sure what year Musk left South Africa, however.

    , @(((They))) Live
    @neutral

    Musk knows, his comment about who controls the media is the clear evidence

    The average SJW thinks Musk is on their side, but I doubt it

  4. He just seems like a devoted shit-stirrer to me, I wouldn’t take anything he says seriously.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Nodwink

    I mostly agree to this, but there's another component to it. Dogecoin represents "faith in Elon" and I believe he highly enjoys the personal cult that he has built to himself and wants to basically reward his faithful.

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @Nodwink

    Even if his intention is unserious, the consequences of what he says are very serious for people holding the financial instruments he's talking about at any given time.

  5. This market is just way too crazy.

    I suspect that selling pressure will finally come once the Boomers, of whom more and more are moving into retirement every day, finally decide that it’s no longer worth risking the value of their pensions like this, and decide to cash out. When that process gets underway it will completely tank the financial markets in the largest ever stampede for the exits. And this is why I fear that…

    …They will never actually let you sell.

    If the DOW starts dropping by thousands of points and no new multi-trillion dollar stimulus package suffices to stop the carnage, they will simply close the markets. Perhaps, instead of allowing you to pull all your money out, they will authorize you a small monthly distribution that they deem sufficient for you to survive upon. You will be forced to recapitalize the system with your investments.

    “What, you expected to get your money back? I’m sorry, we cannot complete that transaction at this time. There is a national financial emergency underway. Goldman-Sachs appreciates your sacrifice at this critical juncture and looks forward to partnering with you in the future.”

    • Agree: Voltarde
    • Replies: @iffen
    @Intelligent Dasein

    it’s no longer worth risking the value of their pensions like this, and decide to cash out.

    Yeah, when the hundreds of thousands, no wait, millions of people with pension funds stop day trading their portfolios, it's going to be a mess.

    Do you even know how pension funds work for the millions of people who have them?

  6. He’s not /ourguy/ AE, we need to stop falling for this eventually.

  7. Much of what he’s done has been government-funded, particularly by NASA.

    Musk is a fake. The fact that he’s government-funded in most of his projects is a big red flag.

    Despite the below author’s possible exaggerations, it is true that there’s a lot of mystery in how Musk made and continues to make his fortune.

    Also his supposed children with all those ridiculous names, are probably faked too (he looks gay, btw. Literally fake and gay).

    http://mileswmathis.com/musk.pdf

    • Replies: @(((They))) Live
    @Dumbo

    Miles Mathis is a fool, ignore him

    Yeah Musk has plenty of fat government contracts, but thats the way the rocket launch business works, ULA had a launch monopoly and used their position to ripoff the tax payer, they knew the US would never launch their spy or comms sats from Russia/China ect, its just never going to happen. Because ULA cost so much, Musk knew he could do it cheaper, and that was before SpaceX started reusing the first stage, and then of course SpaceX get NASA contracts, again SpaceX are under cutting NASA by billions, the Shuttle program worked out at $1.6 billion per launch, about 25 tons to LEO and seven people, $1.6 billion would buy 10 Falcon Heavy launches, which could put 50+ tons per launch to Leo, the Falcon9 + Dragon works out at about 55 million per seat, Russia were charging 90million per seat, and Boeing got paid far more than SpaceX for their joke of a capsule

    So far the SLS has cost about $20 billion for Sweet FA, its a joke, SpaceX will spent a fraction of that and have a better rocket, and probably reach orbit first too

    There is no mystery to how Musk made his money. he got lucky during the Dotcom boom and parlayed his $150million into SpaceX/Tesla, this was actually a really stupid move, I would have spent the $150million on booze and women, so he's a better man than me.

    I think most of the negative stories we hear about him are started by the oil industry and people in the MIC he makes look bad, GM are planning to be 100% electric by 2035, all the big car companies are investing billions in EVs OPEC and big oil should be worried, it only takes a small % of people to switch to EV and its over for them

    The original Hummer got about 10MPG so every time one rolled off the lot, it created demand for 15000+ gallons of fuel, big oil just love cars with low MPG, but the new Hummer is a pure EV

    IMO People should shot Tesla its clearly over valued, they should take a look at big oil too

    Replies: @Dumbo, @The Wild Geese Howard

    , @Anonymous
    @Dumbo

    That file you liked to -- takes a rolling pin to one's brains.

    , @songbird
    @Dumbo


    he looks gay, btw
     
    Musk's slightly off look is due to his small percentage of non-white genes, acquired via his Boer ancestry. If he were gay and keeping a beard, he would have probably stayed with one woman too.

    My verdict: not gay. Though maybe a bit too superficial. Grimes is reasonably good-looking, but too woke.
    , @Curle
    @Dumbo

    “he looks gay.”

    No.

  8. The Melvin hedge fund shorted Tesla pretty hard a few years back.
    Obvious payback is obvious.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @anon

    Melvin shorted Tesla, made some money, AND bragged about it.

    May as well paint a target on their back for Musk.

  9. Elon Musk is the World’s Biggest Welfare Queen.
    All of his “projects” are fully funded by the US Government.
    He’s a fraud and a fake.

    He admitted that his companies do not generate profits.
    The “science” behind his projects are not come from him.
    Tesla is a bubble and SpaceX is just a branch of the Military Industrial Complex.

    The System is rigged from top to bottom.
    This guy was manufactured not self made.
    He’s a shill for a dying system desperate for “good news”.

    • Agree: Brian Reilly
    • Replies: @DanHessinMD
    @Dr. Doom

    His cars, his rockets, not fake.

    Plus he is in manufacturing.

    Starting up new manufacturing in America and succeeding at making world-demand products is top level.

  10. I’ve grown to like ol’ Elon. He’s fun to watch. I particularly like the way he sees government as just one more organization to ignore, loot, or use for publicity as the mood takes him.

    Mr Epigone might want to have a look at this statistical gem that caught my eye.

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/02/less-than-one-percent-of-1200-reported-racial-incidents-in-last-five-years-at-michigan-state-were-valid/

    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Bill Jones

    He produces stuff other than another silly app, and he provides a faint light for people who don't like the HR/managerial culture that increasingly dominates the United States. Even if you can never be anything like Musk yourself-not many people can-he's an *alternative* model to the zeitgeist of the age. That's very important if you don't like it.

    Re, Musk's views on race: who is to say he has any? Most people aren't obsessed by questions of race in normal, non-online life: most people couldn't care less, and that's a good thing. Furthermore, who cares? Unlike other oligarchs, he seems to want to be left alone to do interesting stuff. That said, while I don't think he's a PC guy by any stretch ("I am the dominant partner" at his first wedding, Joe Rogan, etc), my own hunch is that he wouldn't pass muster for the Unz crowd, either. His distaste for the apartheid regime and the racist ideology he grew up under comes off pretty clearly in any interview he's given about his early years. He's also pretty openly pro-China, albeit for rational reasons familiar to anyone with a scientific bent: Beijing spends money on high-speed rail and scientific research, whereas we can't even handle a pandemic correctly and blow billions on the stupidest things imaginable.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

  11. @neutral

    and he did once throw white South Africans under the bus, by saying he got out of town because he didn’t want to oppress blacks.
     
    100% sure that this was not sincere, very sure that he is aware that blacks are an inferior race. People are forced to say these things, he can hardly say he left South Africa because it is full of blacks.

    Replies: @Servant of Gla'aki, @(((They))) Live

    100% sure that this was not sincere, very sure that he is aware that blacks are an inferior race. People are forced to say these things, he can hardly say he left South Africa because it is full of blacks.

    There’s nothing inconsistent in understanding the, ahem, civilizational disparities amongst the races, and yet also preferring not to live in an explicitly racial supremacist state.*

    *The term “White supremacy” gets used like a comma these days, but it’s an accurate descriptor for P.W. Botha’s government. Not sure what year Musk left South Africa, however.

  12. @Dumbo

    Much of what he’s done has been government-funded, particularly by NASA.
     
    Musk is a fake. The fact that he's government-funded in most of his projects is a big red flag.

    Despite the below author's possible exaggerations, it is true that there's a lot of mystery in how Musk made and continues to make his fortune.

    Also his supposed children with all those ridiculous names, are probably faked too (he looks gay, btw. Literally fake and gay).

    http://mileswmathis.com/musk.pdf

    Replies: @(((They))) Live, @Anonymous, @songbird, @Curle

    Miles Mathis is a fool, ignore him

    Yeah Musk has plenty of fat government contracts, but thats the way the rocket launch business works, ULA had a launch monopoly and used their position to ripoff the tax payer, they knew the US would never launch their spy or comms sats from Russia/China ect, its just never going to happen. Because ULA cost so much, Musk knew he could do it cheaper, and that was before SpaceX started reusing the first stage, and then of course SpaceX get NASA contracts, again SpaceX are under cutting NASA by billions, the Shuttle program worked out at $1.6 billion per launch, about 25 tons to LEO and seven people, $1.6 billion would buy 10 Falcon Heavy launches, which could put 50+ tons per launch to Leo, the Falcon9 + Dragon works out at about 55 million per seat, Russia were charging 90million per seat, and Boeing got paid far more than SpaceX for their joke of a capsule

    So far the SLS has cost about $20 billion for Sweet FA, its a joke, SpaceX will spent a fraction of that and have a better rocket, and probably reach orbit first too

    There is no mystery to how Musk made his money. he got lucky during the Dotcom boom and parlayed his $150million into SpaceX/Tesla, this was actually a really stupid move, I would have spent the $150million on booze and women, so he’s a better man than me.

    I think most of the negative stories we hear about him are started by the oil industry and people in the MIC he makes look bad, GM are planning to be 100% electric by 2035, all the big car companies are investing billions in EVs OPEC and big oil should be worried, it only takes a small % of people to switch to EV and its over for them

    The original Hummer got about 10MPG so every time one rolled off the lot, it created demand for 15000+ gallons of fuel, big oil just love cars with low MPG, but the new Hummer is a pure EV

    IMO People should shot Tesla its clearly over valued, they should take a look at big oil too

    • Replies: @Dumbo
    @(((They))) Live

    Oh I don't take Miles Mathis completely seriously but he makes some interesting observations now and then and he's fun to read.

    I'm not really sure about electric cars, yeah they are pushing for them a lot but... they were pushing for solar energy too, with a lot of scam companies. We will see.

    , @The Wild Geese Howard
    @(((They))) Live


    There is no mystery to how Musk made his money. he got lucky during the Dotcom boom
     
    Uh, Musk was involved in founding and spinning up PayPal, which is a useful service that has unfortunately become political in recent years.

    The issue with Tesla are the money it makes selling government-mandated carbon credits to other automakers. A sort of backdoor subsidy if you will.

    That said, with the climate cultist lunatics in charge of so many governments around the world it's hard to envision a day when they pull the rug on carbon credits.

  13. @neutral

    and he did once throw white South Africans under the bus, by saying he got out of town because he didn’t want to oppress blacks.
     
    100% sure that this was not sincere, very sure that he is aware that blacks are an inferior race. People are forced to say these things, he can hardly say he left South Africa because it is full of blacks.

    Replies: @Servant of Gla'aki, @(((They))) Live

    Musk knows, his comment about who controls the media is the clear evidence

    The average SJW thinks Musk is on their side, but I doubt it

  14. @(((They))) Live
    @Dumbo

    Miles Mathis is a fool, ignore him

    Yeah Musk has plenty of fat government contracts, but thats the way the rocket launch business works, ULA had a launch monopoly and used their position to ripoff the tax payer, they knew the US would never launch their spy or comms sats from Russia/China ect, its just never going to happen. Because ULA cost so much, Musk knew he could do it cheaper, and that was before SpaceX started reusing the first stage, and then of course SpaceX get NASA contracts, again SpaceX are under cutting NASA by billions, the Shuttle program worked out at $1.6 billion per launch, about 25 tons to LEO and seven people, $1.6 billion would buy 10 Falcon Heavy launches, which could put 50+ tons per launch to Leo, the Falcon9 + Dragon works out at about 55 million per seat, Russia were charging 90million per seat, and Boeing got paid far more than SpaceX for their joke of a capsule

    So far the SLS has cost about $20 billion for Sweet FA, its a joke, SpaceX will spent a fraction of that and have a better rocket, and probably reach orbit first too

    There is no mystery to how Musk made his money. he got lucky during the Dotcom boom and parlayed his $150million into SpaceX/Tesla, this was actually a really stupid move, I would have spent the $150million on booze and women, so he's a better man than me.

    I think most of the negative stories we hear about him are started by the oil industry and people in the MIC he makes look bad, GM are planning to be 100% electric by 2035, all the big car companies are investing billions in EVs OPEC and big oil should be worried, it only takes a small % of people to switch to EV and its over for them

    The original Hummer got about 10MPG so every time one rolled off the lot, it created demand for 15000+ gallons of fuel, big oil just love cars with low MPG, but the new Hummer is a pure EV

    IMO People should shot Tesla its clearly over valued, they should take a look at big oil too

    Replies: @Dumbo, @The Wild Geese Howard

    Oh I don’t take Miles Mathis completely seriously but he makes some interesting observations now and then and he’s fun to read.

    I’m not really sure about electric cars, yeah they are pushing for them a lot but… they were pushing for solar energy too, with a lot of scam companies. We will see.

  15. A few years ago, I read a few blogs in which commenters speculated on who, from current times, would still be remembered by historians in 100 years or 500 years or 1000 years. The most-named were of course people like Einstein, Freud, Darwin, and Beethoven. There were also creative suggestions. But to my surprise, many commenters named Elon Musk. All of his ideas seem wrong to me. He is a good example of the divide that exists in this country between traditional thinking, and “dynamic” (cough cough) thinking.

    • Replies: @(((They))) Live
    @SafeNow

    If Musk puts people on Mars, then yes, he will be remembered 500 years from now, just like Henry the Navigator, Ferdinand and Isabella, Columbus ect

    Replies: @Brian Reilly, @prime noticer

  16. @Dumbo

    Much of what he’s done has been government-funded, particularly by NASA.
     
    Musk is a fake. The fact that he's government-funded in most of his projects is a big red flag.

    Despite the below author's possible exaggerations, it is true that there's a lot of mystery in how Musk made and continues to make his fortune.

    Also his supposed children with all those ridiculous names, are probably faked too (he looks gay, btw. Literally fake and gay).

    http://mileswmathis.com/musk.pdf

    Replies: @(((They))) Live, @Anonymous, @songbird, @Curle

    That file you liked to — takes a rolling pin to one’s brains.

  17. @SafeNow
    A few years ago, I read a few blogs in which commenters speculated on who, from current times, would still be remembered by historians in 100 years or 500 years or 1000 years. The most-named were of course people like Einstein, Freud, Darwin, and Beethoven. There were also creative suggestions. But to my surprise, many commenters named Elon Musk. All of his ideas seem wrong to me. He is a good example of the divide that exists in this country between traditional thinking, and “dynamic” (cough cough) thinking.

    Replies: @(((They))) Live

    If Musk puts people on Mars, then yes, he will be remembered 500 years from now, just like Henry the Navigator, Ferdinand and Isabella, Columbus ect

    • Replies: @Brian Reilly
    @(((They))) Live

    They, Right now there is no plan to transport live humans to Mars, land, take off, and return to earth. No space transport suitable for the task on the drawing boards that uses proven means and methods. No plan to transport to Mars the supplies needed to establish and maintain even a tiny outpost, and no real agreement in the medical trades that humans would last long or even barely survive in the conditions found on mars, or even far off Earth in any direction.

    Mr. Musk is an interesting person who has not yet demonstrated anything more than superb marketing ability with a more-than-willing audience. The Tesla automobile company makes shoddy cars and loses money on every single one. If not for the tax credits he harvests from the public via the other auto manufacturers that sell in the US (perhaps other places as well, I do not know), Tesla would never have been more than an interesting scam like Theranos. At least Tucker had some great technology in his cars. The Tesla is, arguably, among the worst average quality build of an American automobile in many decades. Pinto included. No big Auto company building and selling IC engine cars would get away with it, NHTSA would not let them.

    Musk does seem to get some talented people together. Guaranteed money from an imperial power can do that kind of thing. That he may be doing marginally better and marginally less expensive work (still government supported 100%, with no viable commercial payoff except for sat launches, perhaps) than NASA is hardly the hallmark of demonstrated brilliance or excellence. The idea that Musk is going to mine gold on the Moon for a profit (just one of his pipe dreams) using his tunneling technology is beyond ludicrous. Not until there are some breakthroughs in basic science that are not now in sight.

    I wonder if, in 500 years, people will remember M. Musk the way we remember John Law, Bernie Madoff....or Mr. Ponzi.

    Replies: @(((They))) Live

    , @prime noticer
    @(((They))) Live

    exactly the point made by Robert Zubrin. the person most responsible for getting humans to Mars will be one of the most famous people who ever lived, forever.

    or at least, that would be the case in the past. under the current Thought Police Retcon Regime, who knows how much history they'll be able to eliminate or re-write.

    they're busy trying to remove Von Braun from history, who i've decided after decades of thought, is one of the most important guys who ever lived, and was the guy most directly responsible for getting humans off earth. yes, i know he wasn't the only missile tech guy, but almost all of this stuff started with the V2. ICBMs, MAD, most of the cold war, and space missions all DIRECTLY come from the V2.

    current Regime people only think about him in terms of the Space Race, and want to replace Von Braun with random african women. but he's far more important than just the person who mainly won the Space Race for the US.

    agree completely on your take with regards to NASA, SLS, the defense budget, and how EXTREMELY wasteful the US government has become - with PISS POOR tech results. Elon's tech is a HUGE step forward, for 10% of the price.

    Replies: @neutral

  18. @Dumbo

    Much of what he’s done has been government-funded, particularly by NASA.
     
    Musk is a fake. The fact that he's government-funded in most of his projects is a big red flag.

    Despite the below author's possible exaggerations, it is true that there's a lot of mystery in how Musk made and continues to make his fortune.

    Also his supposed children with all those ridiculous names, are probably faked too (he looks gay, btw. Literally fake and gay).

    http://mileswmathis.com/musk.pdf

    Replies: @(((They))) Live, @Anonymous, @songbird, @Curle

    he looks gay, btw

    Musk’s slightly off look is due to his small percentage of non-white genes, acquired via his Boer ancestry. If he were gay and keeping a beard, he would have probably stayed with one woman too.

    My verdict: not gay. Though maybe a bit too superficial. Grimes is reasonably good-looking, but too woke.

  19. Elon has proven to be a rightist. this is why the US government has begun it’s investigations into him in earnest. the richest man in the world can’t not be a liberal, let alone a rightist.

    i’m going to make what sounds like a preposterous statement, but one that i’ve thought about a lot for years – Elon Musk is the most important human alive right now.

    if Iran or other muslim terrorists took him out as payback to the US, or he died right now from some other random stuff, humans would lose decades of advances in multiple important techs.

    because he’s a hardware guy and not a software guy, he’s an order of magnitude more important than many of the previous captains of industry or richest guys in the world. he’s pushing multiple industries and inventing new tech at an astonishing rate.

    by contrast, losing the richest software guys in the world or richest finance guys in the world would barely have any effect on society.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
    @prime noticer

    George Hotz will be more important than Musk over the next decade.

    The difference between Elon "Russ Hanneman" Musk and @geohot is that Hotz seems to be completely uninterested in being a billionaire, whereas Musk seems a bit too interested in the trés commas.

    Frankly, je n'ai rien à foutre: I've got 4 commas by dint of being a 100-trillionaire[*1] (when TSHTF, commas obtained by stock ownership during Weimar-style financial-sector hyperinflation, has the same relevance as changes in the numeraire...)

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ormf27u4ovyhfa3/Zim_100Trillion.png?dl=1

    (As I've said before: I should have spent another AU$150 bought another 9 of these and become a quadrillionaire... I coulda been Prezzident if I could find 300 million rubes in one place)

    When did Musk ever get TPTB to try to make it illegal to reproduce a number? @geohot did that when he was less than a year old[*2].

    Musk has been dead to me since his first hairpiece. Anyone who respected their own IQ should refuse to have a flattened hedgehog[*3] stapled to their scalp.


    [*1] Self-explanatory: being a hecto-trillionaire in 2008 Zimbabwe dollars is a bit like owning a hundred trillion shares of WeBurntOurRunway.com

    [*2] In Neptune years. No human has ever lived for a whole Neptune year, so maybe that's a poor choice of numeraire.

    [*3] I don't care how much stock someone owns, have some fucking decency and shave your head you Jaapie cunt.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

  20. @(((They))) Live
    @SafeNow

    If Musk puts people on Mars, then yes, he will be remembered 500 years from now, just like Henry the Navigator, Ferdinand and Isabella, Columbus ect

    Replies: @Brian Reilly, @prime noticer

    They, Right now there is no plan to transport live humans to Mars, land, take off, and return to earth. No space transport suitable for the task on the drawing boards that uses proven means and methods. No plan to transport to Mars the supplies needed to establish and maintain even a tiny outpost, and no real agreement in the medical trades that humans would last long or even barely survive in the conditions found on mars, or even far off Earth in any direction.

    Mr. Musk is an interesting person who has not yet demonstrated anything more than superb marketing ability with a more-than-willing audience. The Tesla automobile company makes shoddy cars and loses money on every single one. If not for the tax credits he harvests from the public via the other auto manufacturers that sell in the US (perhaps other places as well, I do not know), Tesla would never have been more than an interesting scam like Theranos. At least Tucker had some great technology in his cars. The Tesla is, arguably, among the worst average quality build of an American automobile in many decades. Pinto included. No big Auto company building and selling IC engine cars would get away with it, NHTSA would not let them.

    Musk does seem to get some talented people together. Guaranteed money from an imperial power can do that kind of thing. That he may be doing marginally better and marginally less expensive work (still government supported 100%, with no viable commercial payoff except for sat launches, perhaps) than NASA is hardly the hallmark of demonstrated brilliance or excellence. The idea that Musk is going to mine gold on the Moon for a profit (just one of his pipe dreams) using his tunneling technology is beyond ludicrous. Not until there are some breakthroughs in basic science that are not now in sight.

    I wonder if, in 500 years, people will remember M. Musk the way we remember John Law, Bernie Madoff….or Mr. Ponzi.

    • Replies: @(((They))) Live
    @Brian Reilly

    No plan to get to Mars, what are you talking about, Musk isn't just planning to go to Mars he has SpaceX building the rocket in Texas right now, TODAY !!!. they crashed the prototype lander just 2 days ago, give it a few years and they will be ready to go, lot of explosions and crashes, its great entertainment

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SARzFHLdgmM

    Workable plans to reach Mars have be around since the 70s, NASA would have done it too but Nixon cancelled the Saturn V

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sInxOaEBPJk

    Robert Zubrin's Mars direct was a workable plan from the 90s, the SpaceX plan is based on this

    Right up until the day SpaceX put a man on Mars people will claim its not possible, the same way its not possible to land the first stage of a rocket, and use its again a few weeks later

    Replies: @songbird

  21. Mr. Epigone says:

    – Musk is passing comment on the reality that the global financial system exists in a post-fundamentals world. One guy’s tweets have more influence on a company’s stock price than the company’s quarterly numbers do. And what is said at an FOMC meeting has more influence on the broader market than any of the various economic indicators–jobs reports, manufacturing indices, inflation measures, trade balances, etc–do. Dogecoin was created as a lark. Musk pumping it for personal gain is possible but seems petty. Even with its two meteoric hops up, the entire market is one-half of one percent of Musk’s net worth.

    I say:

    Jeff Macke lost his marbles on TV when two baby boomer types went right back to this so-called “fundamentals” talk about the market about cars and I do not condone Mr Macke’s rudeness but I understand his shock about the madness of these propaganda whores going on about these so-called “fundamentals” when the central banker shysters are running the show and people just follow the propaganda script and ignore the monetary machinations of the central banker shysters.

    I think it was in 2009 and the central banker shysters were running everything and these TV clowns start in with the car talk crap when it should be central banker shysterism talk all the way!

    Jeff Macke Meltdown:

  22. @(((They))) Live
    @SafeNow

    If Musk puts people on Mars, then yes, he will be remembered 500 years from now, just like Henry the Navigator, Ferdinand and Isabella, Columbus ect

    Replies: @Brian Reilly, @prime noticer

    exactly the point made by Robert Zubrin. the person most responsible for getting humans to Mars will be one of the most famous people who ever lived, forever.

    or at least, that would be the case in the past. under the current Thought Police Retcon Regime, who knows how much history they’ll be able to eliminate or re-write.

    they’re busy trying to remove Von Braun from history, who i’ve decided after decades of thought, is one of the most important guys who ever lived, and was the guy most directly responsible for getting humans off earth. yes, i know he wasn’t the only missile tech guy, but almost all of this stuff started with the V2. ICBMs, MAD, most of the cold war, and space missions all DIRECTLY come from the V2.

    current Regime people only think about him in terms of the Space Race, and want to replace Von Braun with random african women. but he’s far more important than just the person who mainly won the Space Race for the US.

    agree completely on your take with regards to NASA, SLS, the defense budget, and how EXTREMELY wasteful the US government has become – with PISS POOR tech results. Elon’s tech is a HUGE step forward, for 10% of the price.

    • Replies: @neutral
    @prime noticer

    If you consider that the US propaganda made Neil Armstrong more important than the first man in space, then so it will be with say China dominating future Mars exploration. Someone like Musk could be responsible for putting people first on Mars, but once America succumbs to the brown rubbish demographic and has no ability to do things like space travel, I doubt Chinese propaganda will be praising him much.

  23. @Brian Reilly
    @(((They))) Live

    They, Right now there is no plan to transport live humans to Mars, land, take off, and return to earth. No space transport suitable for the task on the drawing boards that uses proven means and methods. No plan to transport to Mars the supplies needed to establish and maintain even a tiny outpost, and no real agreement in the medical trades that humans would last long or even barely survive in the conditions found on mars, or even far off Earth in any direction.

    Mr. Musk is an interesting person who has not yet demonstrated anything more than superb marketing ability with a more-than-willing audience. The Tesla automobile company makes shoddy cars and loses money on every single one. If not for the tax credits he harvests from the public via the other auto manufacturers that sell in the US (perhaps other places as well, I do not know), Tesla would never have been more than an interesting scam like Theranos. At least Tucker had some great technology in his cars. The Tesla is, arguably, among the worst average quality build of an American automobile in many decades. Pinto included. No big Auto company building and selling IC engine cars would get away with it, NHTSA would not let them.

    Musk does seem to get some talented people together. Guaranteed money from an imperial power can do that kind of thing. That he may be doing marginally better and marginally less expensive work (still government supported 100%, with no viable commercial payoff except for sat launches, perhaps) than NASA is hardly the hallmark of demonstrated brilliance or excellence. The idea that Musk is going to mine gold on the Moon for a profit (just one of his pipe dreams) using his tunneling technology is beyond ludicrous. Not until there are some breakthroughs in basic science that are not now in sight.

    I wonder if, in 500 years, people will remember M. Musk the way we remember John Law, Bernie Madoff....or Mr. Ponzi.

    Replies: @(((They))) Live

    No plan to get to Mars, what are you talking about, Musk isn’t just planning to go to Mars he has SpaceX building the rocket in Texas right now, TODAY !!!. they crashed the prototype lander just 2 days ago, give it a few years and they will be ready to go, lot of explosions and crashes, its great entertainment

    Workable plans to reach Mars have be around since the 70s, NASA would have done it too but Nixon cancelled the Saturn V

    Robert Zubrin’s Mars direct was a workable plan from the 90s, the SpaceX plan is based on this

    Right up until the day SpaceX put a man on Mars people will claim its not possible, the same way its not possible to land the first stage of a rocket, and use its again a few weeks later

    • Replies: @songbird
    @(((They))) Live

    I think I heard 7 orbital refills necessary to carry a full cargo to Mars. Seems impractical, especially, if you consider the journey time.

    Nuclear is the only practical way to move large numbers of people to Mars, IMO. The only practical way to colonize, if it actually is possible.

    Of course, I am sure nuclear would turn off all his environmentalist supporters.

    Replies: @(((They))) Live

  24. @Intelligent Dasein
    This market is just way too crazy.

    I suspect that selling pressure will finally come once the Boomers, of whom more and more are moving into retirement every day, finally decide that it's no longer worth risking the value of their pensions like this, and decide to cash out. When that process gets underway it will completely tank the financial markets in the largest ever stampede for the exits. And this is why I fear that...

    ...They will never actually let you sell.

    If the DOW starts dropping by thousands of points and no new multi-trillion dollar stimulus package suffices to stop the carnage, they will simply close the markets. Perhaps, instead of allowing you to pull all your money out, they will authorize you a small monthly distribution that they deem sufficient for you to survive upon. You will be forced to recapitalize the system with your investments.

    "What, you expected to get your money back? I'm sorry, we cannot complete that transaction at this time. There is a national financial emergency underway. Goldman-Sachs appreciates your sacrifice at this critical juncture and looks forward to partnering with you in the future."

    Replies: @iffen

    it’s no longer worth risking the value of their pensions like this, and decide to cash out.

    Yeah, when the hundreds of thousands, no wait, millions of people with pension funds stop day trading their portfolios, it’s going to be a mess.

    Do you even know how pension funds work for the millions of people who have them?

  25. @(((They))) Live
    @Brian Reilly

    No plan to get to Mars, what are you talking about, Musk isn't just planning to go to Mars he has SpaceX building the rocket in Texas right now, TODAY !!!. they crashed the prototype lander just 2 days ago, give it a few years and they will be ready to go, lot of explosions and crashes, its great entertainment

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SARzFHLdgmM

    Workable plans to reach Mars have be around since the 70s, NASA would have done it too but Nixon cancelled the Saturn V

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sInxOaEBPJk

    Robert Zubrin's Mars direct was a workable plan from the 90s, the SpaceX plan is based on this

    Right up until the day SpaceX put a man on Mars people will claim its not possible, the same way its not possible to land the first stage of a rocket, and use its again a few weeks later

    Replies: @songbird

    I think I heard 7 orbital refills necessary to carry a full cargo to Mars. Seems impractical, especially, if you consider the journey time.

    Nuclear is the only practical way to move large numbers of people to Mars, IMO. The only practical way to colonize, if it actually is possible.

    Of course, I am sure nuclear would turn off all his environmentalist supporters.

    • Replies: @(((They))) Live
    @songbird

    The refills happen in LEO, it will be all automated like the Dragon docking with the ISS, the first few might be difficult, but I don't see it as a big problem

    I see that Bezos has stepped back from Amazon, I wonder is this to spend more time at Blue origin, Blue was started before SpaceX but despite 20 years and billions from Bezos they have jet to reach LEO, maybe its time Jeff started to crack the whip

    Replies: @songbird

  26. @prime noticer
    @(((They))) Live

    exactly the point made by Robert Zubrin. the person most responsible for getting humans to Mars will be one of the most famous people who ever lived, forever.

    or at least, that would be the case in the past. under the current Thought Police Retcon Regime, who knows how much history they'll be able to eliminate or re-write.

    they're busy trying to remove Von Braun from history, who i've decided after decades of thought, is one of the most important guys who ever lived, and was the guy most directly responsible for getting humans off earth. yes, i know he wasn't the only missile tech guy, but almost all of this stuff started with the V2. ICBMs, MAD, most of the cold war, and space missions all DIRECTLY come from the V2.

    current Regime people only think about him in terms of the Space Race, and want to replace Von Braun with random african women. but he's far more important than just the person who mainly won the Space Race for the US.

    agree completely on your take with regards to NASA, SLS, the defense budget, and how EXTREMELY wasteful the US government has become - with PISS POOR tech results. Elon's tech is a HUGE step forward, for 10% of the price.

    Replies: @neutral

    If you consider that the US propaganda made Neil Armstrong more important than the first man in space, then so it will be with say China dominating future Mars exploration. Someone like Musk could be responsible for putting people first on Mars, but once America succumbs to the brown rubbish demographic and has no ability to do things like space travel, I doubt Chinese propaganda will be praising him much.

  27. @Bill Jones
    I've grown to like ol' Elon. He's fun to watch. I particularly like the way he sees government as just one more organization to ignore, loot, or use for publicity as the mood takes him.

    Mr Epigone might want to have a look at this statistical gem that caught my eye.

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/02/less-than-one-percent-of-1200-reported-racial-incidents-in-last-five-years-at-michigan-state-were-valid/

    Replies: @nebulafox

    He produces stuff other than another silly app, and he provides a faint light for people who don’t like the HR/managerial culture that increasingly dominates the United States. Even if you can never be anything like Musk yourself-not many people can-he’s an *alternative* model to the zeitgeist of the age. That’s very important if you don’t like it.

    Re, Musk’s views on race: who is to say he has any? Most people aren’t obsessed by questions of race in normal, non-online life: most people couldn’t care less, and that’s a good thing. Furthermore, who cares? Unlike other oligarchs, he seems to want to be left alone to do interesting stuff. That said, while I don’t think he’s a PC guy by any stretch (“I am the dominant partner” at his first wedding, Joe Rogan, etc), my own hunch is that he wouldn’t pass muster for the Unz crowd, either. His distaste for the apartheid regime and the racist ideology he grew up under comes off pretty clearly in any interview he’s given about his early years. He’s also pretty openly pro-China, albeit for rational reasons familiar to anyone with a scientific bent: Beijing spends money on high-speed rail and scientific research, whereas we can’t even handle a pandemic correctly and blow billions on the stupidest things imaginable.

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @nebulafox

    I think it's possible that you could have a distaste for apartheid and also be red-pilled from the subsequent history of SA. Someone who simply chooses freedom and integration over law, order, and productivity would likely be less enthusiastic about China.

    Replies: @nebulafox

  28. @songbird
    @(((They))) Live

    I think I heard 7 orbital refills necessary to carry a full cargo to Mars. Seems impractical, especially, if you consider the journey time.

    Nuclear is the only practical way to move large numbers of people to Mars, IMO. The only practical way to colonize, if it actually is possible.

    Of course, I am sure nuclear would turn off all his environmentalist supporters.

    Replies: @(((They))) Live

    The refills happen in LEO, it will be all automated like the Dragon docking with the ISS, the first few might be difficult, but I don’t see it as a big problem

    I see that Bezos has stepped back from Amazon, I wonder is this to spend more time at Blue origin, Blue was started before SpaceX but despite 20 years and billions from Bezos they have jet to reach LEO, maybe its time Jeff started to crack the whip

    • Replies: @songbird
    @(((They))) Live


    the first few might be difficult, but I don’t see it as a big problem
     
    With chemical rockets, you can only go so fast, so the real drawback is logistical. Narrow window for leaving when Mars and Earth are closest because you need a short journey time, if it's people, to limit supplies used and radiation exposure. Going to be difficult to send a fleet of rockets, at the same time, if you need 7 refuels per Mars rocket.

    I believe Musk dreams of sending a thousand, so that's 7000 refuel missions, within a few days. I'm skeptical that it can be done, on a scale like that, even if it works without a hitch.

    Nuclear rockets of good design could probably leave at any time, manned, since they can accelerate longer, and shorten the journey time. Though, realistically probably no state would allow Musk to go nuclear.

    As to Bezos, New Shepard really seems like a joke. I feel like he was trying to monetize part of his development process. It doesn't seem like an attractive proposition for tourists. There is a logic to going slowly, but the way New Shepard is touted like a big accomplishment, doesn't inspire future confidence.

    Replies: @Kratoklastes

  29. @(((They))) Live
    @songbird

    The refills happen in LEO, it will be all automated like the Dragon docking with the ISS, the first few might be difficult, but I don't see it as a big problem

    I see that Bezos has stepped back from Amazon, I wonder is this to spend more time at Blue origin, Blue was started before SpaceX but despite 20 years and billions from Bezos they have jet to reach LEO, maybe its time Jeff started to crack the whip

    Replies: @songbird

    the first few might be difficult, but I don’t see it as a big problem

    With chemical rockets, you can only go so fast, so the real drawback is logistical. Narrow window for leaving when Mars and Earth are closest because you need a short journey time, if it’s people, to limit supplies used and radiation exposure. Going to be difficult to send a fleet of rockets, at the same time, if you need 7 refuels per Mars rocket.

    I believe Musk dreams of sending a thousand, so that’s 7000 refuel missions, within a few days. I’m skeptical that it can be done, on a scale like that, even if it works without a hitch.

    Nuclear rockets of good design could probably leave at any time, manned, since they can accelerate longer, and shorten the journey time. Though, realistically probably no state would allow Musk to go nuclear.

    As to Bezos, New Shepard really seems like a joke. I feel like he was trying to monetize part of his development process. It doesn’t seem like an attractive proposition for tourists. There is a logic to going slowly, but the way New Shepard is touted like a big accomplishment, doesn’t inspire future confidence.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
    @songbird

    The real real drawback is trying to send bags of wet meat.

    That's the plot hole in all of sci-fi: they're still - somehow, in defiance of logic - made of meat (despite having strong AI or near-strong AI).

    By the time we have reliable interplanetary travel worked out (at commercially-viable cost-benefit ratios), we will already have worked out personality-virtualisation and strong AI.

    At that point, it would take American-government-level levels of Retardism to think it's a good bet to send bags of wet meat careening through interplanetary space.

    Meatbags are really quite hard to keep alive outside of a very narrow range of temperature, pressure, radiation, and humidity.

    Far easier to send an SAI in a radiation-powered nanocube.

    TL;DR: meat is a poor choice of substrate if technology permits anything more robust. Meat will lose. Mars will be colonised by post-humans.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @songbird

  30. @prime noticer
    Elon has proven to be a rightist. this is why the US government has begun it's investigations into him in earnest. the richest man in the world can't not be a liberal, let alone a rightist.

    i'm going to make what sounds like a preposterous statement, but one that i've thought about a lot for years - Elon Musk is the most important human alive right now.

    if Iran or other muslim terrorists took him out as payback to the US, or he died right now from some other random stuff, humans would lose decades of advances in multiple important techs.

    because he's a hardware guy and not a software guy, he's an order of magnitude more important than many of the previous captains of industry or richest guys in the world. he's pushing multiple industries and inventing new tech at an astonishing rate.

    by contrast, losing the richest software guys in the world or richest finance guys in the world would barely have any effect on society.

    Replies: @Kratoklastes

    George Hotz will be more important than Musk over the next decade.

    The difference between Elon “Russ Hanneman” Musk and @geohot is that Hotz seems to be completely uninterested in being a billionaire, whereas Musk seems a bit too interested in the trés commas.

    Frankly, je n’ai rien à foutre: I’ve got 4 commas by dint of being a 100-trillionaire[*1] (when TSHTF, commas obtained by stock ownership during Weimar-style financial-sector hyperinflation, has the same relevance as changes in the numeraire…)

    (As I’ve said before: I should have spent another AU$150 bought another 9 of these and become a quadrillionaire… I coulda been Prezzident if I could find 300 million rubes in one place)

    When did Musk ever get TPTB to try to make it illegal to reproduce a number? @geohot did that when he was less than a year old[*2].

    Musk has been dead to me since his first hairpiece. Anyone who respected their own IQ should refuse to have a flattened hedgehog[*3] stapled to their scalp.

    [*1] Self-explanatory: being a hecto-trillionaire in 2008 Zimbabwe dollars is a bit like owning a hundred trillion shares of WeBurntOurRunway.com

    [*2] In Neptune years. No human has ever lived for a whole Neptune year, so maybe that’s a poor choice of numeraire.

    [*3] I don’t care how much stock someone owns, have some fucking decency and shave your head you Jaapie cunt.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Kratoklastes

    Agree. Musk should have taken a clue from Bezos, shaved his head and hit the gym. Aristocrats in the old days never would have allowed themselves to appear in public as Musk has done--in poor taste and poor condition.

  31. @Kratoklastes
    @prime noticer

    George Hotz will be more important than Musk over the next decade.

    The difference between Elon "Russ Hanneman" Musk and @geohot is that Hotz seems to be completely uninterested in being a billionaire, whereas Musk seems a bit too interested in the trés commas.

    Frankly, je n'ai rien à foutre: I've got 4 commas by dint of being a 100-trillionaire[*1] (when TSHTF, commas obtained by stock ownership during Weimar-style financial-sector hyperinflation, has the same relevance as changes in the numeraire...)

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ormf27u4ovyhfa3/Zim_100Trillion.png?dl=1

    (As I've said before: I should have spent another AU$150 bought another 9 of these and become a quadrillionaire... I coulda been Prezzident if I could find 300 million rubes in one place)

    When did Musk ever get TPTB to try to make it illegal to reproduce a number? @geohot did that when he was less than a year old[*2].

    Musk has been dead to me since his first hairpiece. Anyone who respected their own IQ should refuse to have a flattened hedgehog[*3] stapled to their scalp.


    [*1] Self-explanatory: being a hecto-trillionaire in 2008 Zimbabwe dollars is a bit like owning a hundred trillion shares of WeBurntOurRunway.com

    [*2] In Neptune years. No human has ever lived for a whole Neptune year, so maybe that's a poor choice of numeraire.

    [*3] I don't care how much stock someone owns, have some fucking decency and shave your head you Jaapie cunt.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    Agree. Musk should have taken a clue from Bezos, shaved his head and hit the gym. Aristocrats in the old days never would have allowed themselves to appear in public as Musk has done–in poor taste and poor condition.

  32. @nebulafox
    @Bill Jones

    He produces stuff other than another silly app, and he provides a faint light for people who don't like the HR/managerial culture that increasingly dominates the United States. Even if you can never be anything like Musk yourself-not many people can-he's an *alternative* model to the zeitgeist of the age. That's very important if you don't like it.

    Re, Musk's views on race: who is to say he has any? Most people aren't obsessed by questions of race in normal, non-online life: most people couldn't care less, and that's a good thing. Furthermore, who cares? Unlike other oligarchs, he seems to want to be left alone to do interesting stuff. That said, while I don't think he's a PC guy by any stretch ("I am the dominant partner" at his first wedding, Joe Rogan, etc), my own hunch is that he wouldn't pass muster for the Unz crowd, either. His distaste for the apartheid regime and the racist ideology he grew up under comes off pretty clearly in any interview he's given about his early years. He's also pretty openly pro-China, albeit for rational reasons familiar to anyone with a scientific bent: Beijing spends money on high-speed rail and scientific research, whereas we can't even handle a pandemic correctly and blow billions on the stupidest things imaginable.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    I think it’s possible that you could have a distaste for apartheid and also be red-pilled from the subsequent history of SA. Someone who simply chooses freedom and integration over law, order, and productivity would likely be less enthusiastic about China.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Chrisnonymous

    It's possible, but TBH, I think Musk tried to just forget about South Africa as soon as he left. Near as I can tell, he's never looked back. Reading about his childhood experiences, it is hard to blame him. Ultimately, only Musk knows what he knows, and I'm no more interested in his personal views on this than I am my doctor's.

    Again, most people don't have whole comprehensive theories about race that you see online. They just aren't interested. This is important to get when wondering about how very intelligent people in places like Silicon Valley can take what CNN says at face value. It's not part of their daily lives, nor is it a field they are particularly interested.

    (Peter Thiel also had a deeply negative experience as a child there, from what I recall. Apparently it was a very socially conservative, authoritarian rote learning culture, not too different from what Einstein hated about Germany growing up during the Kaiserreich.)

    Replies: @songbird, @BlackFlag

  33. @songbird
    @(((They))) Live


    the first few might be difficult, but I don’t see it as a big problem
     
    With chemical rockets, you can only go so fast, so the real drawback is logistical. Narrow window for leaving when Mars and Earth are closest because you need a short journey time, if it's people, to limit supplies used and radiation exposure. Going to be difficult to send a fleet of rockets, at the same time, if you need 7 refuels per Mars rocket.

    I believe Musk dreams of sending a thousand, so that's 7000 refuel missions, within a few days. I'm skeptical that it can be done, on a scale like that, even if it works without a hitch.

    Nuclear rockets of good design could probably leave at any time, manned, since they can accelerate longer, and shorten the journey time. Though, realistically probably no state would allow Musk to go nuclear.

    As to Bezos, New Shepard really seems like a joke. I feel like he was trying to monetize part of his development process. It doesn't seem like an attractive proposition for tourists. There is a logic to going slowly, but the way New Shepard is touted like a big accomplishment, doesn't inspire future confidence.

    Replies: @Kratoklastes

    The real real drawback is trying to send bags of wet meat.

    That’s the plot hole in all of sci-fi: they’re still – somehow, in defiance of logic – made of meat (despite having strong AI or near-strong AI).

    By the time we have reliable interplanetary travel worked out (at commercially-viable cost-benefit ratios), we will already have worked out personality-virtualisation and strong AI.

    At that point, it would take American-government-level levels of Retardism to think it’s a good bet to send bags of wet meat careening through interplanetary space.

    Meatbags are really quite hard to keep alive outside of a very narrow range of temperature, pressure, radiation, and humidity.

    Far easier to send an SAI in a radiation-powered nanocube.

    TL;DR: meat is a poor choice of substrate if technology permits anything more robust. Meat will lose. Mars will be colonised by post-humans.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Kratoklastes

    In Star Trek, why don't just they just stay inside the "transporter" mechanism in a kind of hibernation until they reach a destination, then beam down? Would be much more efficient use of spacecraft with no need for environmental control and people would essentially not age during space travel.

    , @songbird
    @Kratoklastes

    We'll need good robots to settle Mars, if it is possible. And if it is possible, I think it is in some people to desire to go.

    What if it is not possible for humans due to low G? Would it be worth turning Mars into a machine planet? Using vast automation to perhaps accomplish some human goals, like research in material science, or other tedious experimentation. Or would that freak people out?

    Replies: @anon

  34. @Kratoklastes
    @songbird

    The real real drawback is trying to send bags of wet meat.

    That's the plot hole in all of sci-fi: they're still - somehow, in defiance of logic - made of meat (despite having strong AI or near-strong AI).

    By the time we have reliable interplanetary travel worked out (at commercially-viable cost-benefit ratios), we will already have worked out personality-virtualisation and strong AI.

    At that point, it would take American-government-level levels of Retardism to think it's a good bet to send bags of wet meat careening through interplanetary space.

    Meatbags are really quite hard to keep alive outside of a very narrow range of temperature, pressure, radiation, and humidity.

    Far easier to send an SAI in a radiation-powered nanocube.

    TL;DR: meat is a poor choice of substrate if technology permits anything more robust. Meat will lose. Mars will be colonised by post-humans.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @songbird

    In Star Trek, why don’t just they just stay inside the “transporter” mechanism in a kind of hibernation until they reach a destination, then beam down? Would be much more efficient use of spacecraft with no need for environmental control and people would essentially not age during space travel.

  35. @Dr. Doom
    Elon Musk is the World's Biggest Welfare Queen.
    All of his "projects" are fully funded by the US Government.
    He's a fraud and a fake.

    He admitted that his companies do not generate profits.
    The "science" behind his projects are not come from him.
    Tesla is a bubble and SpaceX is just a branch of the Military Industrial Complex.

    The System is rigged from top to bottom.
    This guy was manufactured not self made.
    He's a shill for a dying system desperate for "good news".

    Replies: @DanHessinMD

    His cars, his rockets, not fake.

    Plus he is in manufacturing.

    Starting up new manufacturing in America and succeeding at making world-demand products is top level.

  36. Supposedly Musk and Bezos don’t like each other very much. It’s sort of like Tony Stark vs Lex Luthor.

  37. @Kratoklastes
    @songbird

    The real real drawback is trying to send bags of wet meat.

    That's the plot hole in all of sci-fi: they're still - somehow, in defiance of logic - made of meat (despite having strong AI or near-strong AI).

    By the time we have reliable interplanetary travel worked out (at commercially-viable cost-benefit ratios), we will already have worked out personality-virtualisation and strong AI.

    At that point, it would take American-government-level levels of Retardism to think it's a good bet to send bags of wet meat careening through interplanetary space.

    Meatbags are really quite hard to keep alive outside of a very narrow range of temperature, pressure, radiation, and humidity.

    Far easier to send an SAI in a radiation-powered nanocube.

    TL;DR: meat is a poor choice of substrate if technology permits anything more robust. Meat will lose. Mars will be colonised by post-humans.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @songbird

    We’ll need good robots to settle Mars, if it is possible. And if it is possible, I think it is in some people to desire to go.

    What if it is not possible for humans due to low G? Would it be worth turning Mars into a machine planet? Using vast automation to perhaps accomplish some human goals, like research in material science, or other tedious experimentation. Or would that freak people out?

    • Replies: @anon
    @songbird

    We'll need good robots to settle Mars

    There are already good robots on Mars, and more on the way that are better.

    What if it is not possible for humans due to low G? Would it be worth turning Mars into a machine planet?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_probe

    Which may be more difficult than believed, since it ties in with the Fermi paradox. One computational issue might be the halting problem.

    We can send humans, but it's not easy.

    Back before science fiction became feminized there were writers who could actually work with calculus to obtain answers. Robert Heinlein was that way in the 40's and 50's. Basic get-your-ass-to-Mars physics was worked out 60+ years ago and it was incorporated into story lines.

    The Hohmann orbit is a prominent plot point in Heinlein's "The Rolling Stones" as well as "Space Cadet" and "Podkayne of Mars".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohmann_transfer_orbit

    The unfortunate discovery of the Van Allen belts

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Allen_radiation_belt

    put a crimp into science fiction, because radiation levels in deep space turn out to be so high that there's no way to run around in a space suit for hours and hours.

    Plus really big solar flares push even more energetic particles out into the plane of the ecliptic

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronal_mass_ejection

    In "Podkayne of Mars" Heinlein had a shielded compartment in the center of a space passenger ship called the "storm cellar", where passengers and crew had to stay for a while during a "solar storm" due to the radiation hazard. Any habitat on the Moon or Mars will have to be mostly under a couple of meters of material in order to keep humans safe, or even alive. Advanced materials, maybe some kind of polymer, would be needed for spacecraft due to mass constraints. Something that slows down cosmic rays as well as lead does, but with a lot less mass, is required.

    It's difficult to put any major amount of mass in orbit around Mars using chemical rockets due to the issues of Specific Impulse (Isp).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_impulse

    What is needed is a nuclear engine that is inherently more efficient than any chemical engine. The idea has been realized in one form or another for decades. In the US the best example is NERVA.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NERVA

    The Russians are working on a hotter nuclear device to put into space, called TEM.

    One issue with serious nuclear reactors in space is cooling. Passive radiators with lots of fins to get rid of excess heat have scaling problems. A more active method exists in theory that would use a liquid such as a synthetic oil, or perhaps a solid such as very fine metal filings. The transfer medium would receive excess heat from the engine and then be pushed into free space for a few meters or tens of meters. During the travel time the media would radiate heat into free space; small volumes such as tiny beads, blobs or bits would cool much faster. Upon arriving at some kind of collector the media would have cooled down to a much lower temperature, then would be rerouted back to the hot side of the system. This closed loop was described back in the 1970's, it's nothing new.

    Such a cooling system would glow in the dark. The hotter the initial state, the brighter the glow. A serious nuclear power plant such as TEM or something like it would shine like a little star.

    By the time we have reliable interplanetary travel worked out (at commercially-viable cost-benefit ratios), we will already have worked out personality-virtualisation and strong AI.

    Yeah, that Singularity is always just 20 years away, like controlled nuclear fusion. There are some serious issues in the way. For a start, the current state of AI isn't all that much further along that it was 30 years ago. Sure, sigmoid transfer functions and back-error-propagation combined with very, very large training sets have produced some really impressive gains over Marvin Minsky's attempts back in the 1960's, but we are still not even up to the level of many insects in terms of "thinking". I've not seen anything really pass the Turing test, frankly.

    Plus a genuinely virtualized "person" might not be particularly interested in whatever problem we suggest to be worked on. Maybe decide Mars is boring, and takes itself out to the rings of Saturn but never calls home.

    Non trivial problems are always so easy...when one doesn't really have an accurate problem description.

    Replies: @Mr. Rational

  38. @Chrisnonymous
    @nebulafox

    I think it's possible that you could have a distaste for apartheid and also be red-pilled from the subsequent history of SA. Someone who simply chooses freedom and integration over law, order, and productivity would likely be less enthusiastic about China.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    It’s possible, but TBH, I think Musk tried to just forget about South Africa as soon as he left. Near as I can tell, he’s never looked back. Reading about his childhood experiences, it is hard to blame him. Ultimately, only Musk knows what he knows, and I’m no more interested in his personal views on this than I am my doctor’s.

    Again, most people don’t have whole comprehensive theories about race that you see online. They just aren’t interested. This is important to get when wondering about how very intelligent people in places like Silicon Valley can take what CNN says at face value. It’s not part of their daily lives, nor is it a field they are particularly interested.

    (Peter Thiel also had a deeply negative experience as a child there, from what I recall. Apparently it was a very socially conservative, authoritarian rote learning culture, not too different from what Einstein hated about Germany growing up during the Kaiserreich.)

    • Replies: @songbird
    @nebulafox

    I wouldn't be surprised, if Musk secretly holds HBD views.

    Got to figure that he has lots of employees. And some of them have demanding tasks. He's probably realized that Hispanics can make good welders, but it is harder to find ones suitable for higher tasks. And that it might be hard to find good black welders.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he has Ron Unz/Fred Reed views on Hispanics, but I'll bet he wouldn't want open borders with Africa.

    , @BlackFlag
    @nebulafox

    Yeah, in my limited experience, wealthy people don't have sophisticated views on most things. Not because they're dumb but because they're men of action. They don't have the time or inclination for obscure history, theory, etc. Musk is autistic so he might be an exception.

  39. @nebulafox
    @Chrisnonymous

    It's possible, but TBH, I think Musk tried to just forget about South Africa as soon as he left. Near as I can tell, he's never looked back. Reading about his childhood experiences, it is hard to blame him. Ultimately, only Musk knows what he knows, and I'm no more interested in his personal views on this than I am my doctor's.

    Again, most people don't have whole comprehensive theories about race that you see online. They just aren't interested. This is important to get when wondering about how very intelligent people in places like Silicon Valley can take what CNN says at face value. It's not part of their daily lives, nor is it a field they are particularly interested.

    (Peter Thiel also had a deeply negative experience as a child there, from what I recall. Apparently it was a very socially conservative, authoritarian rote learning culture, not too different from what Einstein hated about Germany growing up during the Kaiserreich.)

    Replies: @songbird, @BlackFlag

    I wouldn’t be surprised, if Musk secretly holds HBD views.

    Got to figure that he has lots of employees. And some of them have demanding tasks. He’s probably realized that Hispanics can make good welders, but it is harder to find ones suitable for higher tasks. And that it might be hard to find good black welders.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if he has Ron Unz/Fred Reed views on Hispanics, but I’ll bet he wouldn’t want open borders with Africa.

  40. What Elon Musk does could be done better by an America First White Man.
    Musky is just an opportunist feasting at the Gubmint Trough.
    His spaceships have a nasty habit of exploding.
    His electric cars are extremely flammable.

    He’s a fake technocrat, like Bezos and Gates.
    They are merely capitalist opportunists that have been made.
    They joined the club and got made into what they are.

    They are heads of the Anti-White globalist cabal.
    Zionist stooges that prop up a dying system.
    This Anti-White system cannot function for much longer.

    Diversity will end up killing them.
    Let them EAT THE RICH.
    The enemy is NOT US.

  41. @anon
    The Melvin hedge fund shorted Tesla pretty hard a few years back.
    Obvious payback is obvious.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    Melvin shorted Tesla, made some money, AND bragged about it.

    May as well paint a target on their back for Musk.

  42. @(((They))) Live
    @Dumbo

    Miles Mathis is a fool, ignore him

    Yeah Musk has plenty of fat government contracts, but thats the way the rocket launch business works, ULA had a launch monopoly and used their position to ripoff the tax payer, they knew the US would never launch their spy or comms sats from Russia/China ect, its just never going to happen. Because ULA cost so much, Musk knew he could do it cheaper, and that was before SpaceX started reusing the first stage, and then of course SpaceX get NASA contracts, again SpaceX are under cutting NASA by billions, the Shuttle program worked out at $1.6 billion per launch, about 25 tons to LEO and seven people, $1.6 billion would buy 10 Falcon Heavy launches, which could put 50+ tons per launch to Leo, the Falcon9 + Dragon works out at about 55 million per seat, Russia were charging 90million per seat, and Boeing got paid far more than SpaceX for their joke of a capsule

    So far the SLS has cost about $20 billion for Sweet FA, its a joke, SpaceX will spent a fraction of that and have a better rocket, and probably reach orbit first too

    There is no mystery to how Musk made his money. he got lucky during the Dotcom boom and parlayed his $150million into SpaceX/Tesla, this was actually a really stupid move, I would have spent the $150million on booze and women, so he's a better man than me.

    I think most of the negative stories we hear about him are started by the oil industry and people in the MIC he makes look bad, GM are planning to be 100% electric by 2035, all the big car companies are investing billions in EVs OPEC and big oil should be worried, it only takes a small % of people to switch to EV and its over for them

    The original Hummer got about 10MPG so every time one rolled off the lot, it created demand for 15000+ gallons of fuel, big oil just love cars with low MPG, but the new Hummer is a pure EV

    IMO People should shot Tesla its clearly over valued, they should take a look at big oil too

    Replies: @Dumbo, @The Wild Geese Howard

    There is no mystery to how Musk made his money. he got lucky during the Dotcom boom

    Uh, Musk was involved in founding and spinning up PayPal, which is a useful service that has unfortunately become political in recent years.

    The issue with Tesla are the money it makes selling government-mandated carbon credits to other automakers. A sort of backdoor subsidy if you will.

    That said, with the climate cultist lunatics in charge of so many governments around the world it’s hard to envision a day when they pull the rug on carbon credits.

  43. @Dumbo

    Much of what he’s done has been government-funded, particularly by NASA.
     
    Musk is a fake. The fact that he's government-funded in most of his projects is a big red flag.

    Despite the below author's possible exaggerations, it is true that there's a lot of mystery in how Musk made and continues to make his fortune.

    Also his supposed children with all those ridiculous names, are probably faked too (he looks gay, btw. Literally fake and gay).

    http://mileswmathis.com/musk.pdf

    Replies: @(((They))) Live, @Anonymous, @songbird, @Curle

    “he looks gay.”

    No.

  44. anon[242] • Disclaimer says:
    @songbird
    @Kratoklastes

    We'll need good robots to settle Mars, if it is possible. And if it is possible, I think it is in some people to desire to go.

    What if it is not possible for humans due to low G? Would it be worth turning Mars into a machine planet? Using vast automation to perhaps accomplish some human goals, like research in material science, or other tedious experimentation. Or would that freak people out?

    Replies: @anon

    We’ll need good robots to settle Mars

    There are already good robots on Mars, and more on the way that are better.

    What if it is not possible for humans due to low G? Would it be worth turning Mars into a machine planet?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_probe

    Which may be more difficult than believed, since it ties in with the Fermi paradox. One computational issue might be the halting problem.

    We can send humans, but it’s not easy.

    Back before science fiction became feminized there were writers who could actually work with calculus to obtain answers. Robert Heinlein was that way in the 40’s and 50’s. Basic get-your-ass-to-Mars physics was worked out 60+ years ago and it was incorporated into story lines.

    The Hohmann orbit is a prominent plot point in Heinlein’s “The Rolling Stones” as well as “Space Cadet” and “Podkayne of Mars”.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohmann_transfer_orbit

    The unfortunate discovery of the Van Allen belts

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Allen_radiation_belt

    put a crimp into science fiction, because radiation levels in deep space turn out to be so high that there’s no way to run around in a space suit for hours and hours.

    Plus really big solar flares push even more energetic particles out into the plane of the ecliptic

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronal_mass_ejection

    In “Podkayne of Mars” Heinlein had a shielded compartment in the center of a space passenger ship called the “storm cellar”, where passengers and crew had to stay for a while during a “solar storm” due to the radiation hazard. Any habitat on the Moon or Mars will have to be mostly under a couple of meters of material in order to keep humans safe, or even alive. Advanced materials, maybe some kind of polymer, would be needed for spacecraft due to mass constraints. Something that slows down cosmic rays as well as lead does, but with a lot less mass, is required.

    It’s difficult to put any major amount of mass in orbit around Mars using chemical rockets due to the issues of Specific Impulse (Isp).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_impulse

    What is needed is a nuclear engine that is inherently more efficient than any chemical engine. The idea has been realized in one form or another for decades. In the US the best example is NERVA.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NERVA

    The Russians are working on a hotter nuclear device to put into space, called TEM.

    One issue with serious nuclear reactors in space is cooling. Passive radiators with lots of fins to get rid of excess heat have scaling problems. A more active method exists in theory that would use a liquid such as a synthetic oil, or perhaps a solid such as very fine metal filings. The transfer medium would receive excess heat from the engine and then be pushed into free space for a few meters or tens of meters. During the travel time the media would radiate heat into free space; small volumes such as tiny beads, blobs or bits would cool much faster. Upon arriving at some kind of collector the media would have cooled down to a much lower temperature, then would be rerouted back to the hot side of the system. This closed loop was described back in the 1970’s, it’s nothing new.

    Such a cooling system would glow in the dark. The hotter the initial state, the brighter the glow. A serious nuclear power plant such as TEM or something like it would shine like a little star.

    By the time we have reliable interplanetary travel worked out (at commercially-viable cost-benefit ratios), we will already have worked out personality-virtualisation and strong AI.

    Yeah, that Singularity is always just 20 years away, like controlled nuclear fusion. There are some serious issues in the way. For a start, the current state of AI isn’t all that much further along that it was 30 years ago. Sure, sigmoid transfer functions and back-error-propagation combined with very, very large training sets have produced some really impressive gains over Marvin Minsky’s attempts back in the 1960’s, but we are still not even up to the level of many insects in terms of “thinking”. I’ve not seen anything really pass the Turing test, frankly.

    Plus a genuinely virtualized “person” might not be particularly interested in whatever problem we suggest to be worked on. Maybe decide Mars is boring, and takes itself out to the rings of Saturn but never calls home.

    Non trivial problems are always so easy…when one doesn’t really have an accurate problem description.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    @anon


    Back before science fiction became feminized there were writers who could actually work with calculus to obtain answers.
     
    There still are.  They're just having trouble getting published.

    radiation levels in deep space turn out to be so high that there’s no way to run around in a space suit for hours and hours.
     
    You need something like 10 tons/m² of matter to reduce radiation to surface-normal levels, but there's ample reason to assume that surface-normal levels are far below the optimum and you can use quite a bit less.  Radiation hormesis is real.

    Plus really big solar flares push even more energetic particles out into the plane of the ecliptic
     
    It's pretty easy to stop medium-energy protons.  GeV-level particles are another matter, and that describes the most dangerous cosmic rays.

    What is needed is a nuclear engine that is inherently more efficient than any chemical engine.
     
    Salt-water fission rocket.
  45. Russia’s TEM explained.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TEM_(nuclear_propulsion)

    http://russianspaceweb.com/tem.html

    https://wonderfulengineering.com/russia-to-soon-build-a-nuclear-powered-space-rocket/

    Gas cooling of the reactor requires large rectangular heat radiators.
    This makes the craft look like a bug of some sort.

  46. @anon
    @songbird

    We'll need good robots to settle Mars

    There are already good robots on Mars, and more on the way that are better.

    What if it is not possible for humans due to low G? Would it be worth turning Mars into a machine planet?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_probe

    Which may be more difficult than believed, since it ties in with the Fermi paradox. One computational issue might be the halting problem.

    We can send humans, but it's not easy.

    Back before science fiction became feminized there were writers who could actually work with calculus to obtain answers. Robert Heinlein was that way in the 40's and 50's. Basic get-your-ass-to-Mars physics was worked out 60+ years ago and it was incorporated into story lines.

    The Hohmann orbit is a prominent plot point in Heinlein's "The Rolling Stones" as well as "Space Cadet" and "Podkayne of Mars".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohmann_transfer_orbit

    The unfortunate discovery of the Van Allen belts

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Allen_radiation_belt

    put a crimp into science fiction, because radiation levels in deep space turn out to be so high that there's no way to run around in a space suit for hours and hours.

    Plus really big solar flares push even more energetic particles out into the plane of the ecliptic

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronal_mass_ejection

    In "Podkayne of Mars" Heinlein had a shielded compartment in the center of a space passenger ship called the "storm cellar", where passengers and crew had to stay for a while during a "solar storm" due to the radiation hazard. Any habitat on the Moon or Mars will have to be mostly under a couple of meters of material in order to keep humans safe, or even alive. Advanced materials, maybe some kind of polymer, would be needed for spacecraft due to mass constraints. Something that slows down cosmic rays as well as lead does, but with a lot less mass, is required.

    It's difficult to put any major amount of mass in orbit around Mars using chemical rockets due to the issues of Specific Impulse (Isp).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_impulse

    What is needed is a nuclear engine that is inherently more efficient than any chemical engine. The idea has been realized in one form or another for decades. In the US the best example is NERVA.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NERVA

    The Russians are working on a hotter nuclear device to put into space, called TEM.

    One issue with serious nuclear reactors in space is cooling. Passive radiators with lots of fins to get rid of excess heat have scaling problems. A more active method exists in theory that would use a liquid such as a synthetic oil, or perhaps a solid such as very fine metal filings. The transfer medium would receive excess heat from the engine and then be pushed into free space for a few meters or tens of meters. During the travel time the media would radiate heat into free space; small volumes such as tiny beads, blobs or bits would cool much faster. Upon arriving at some kind of collector the media would have cooled down to a much lower temperature, then would be rerouted back to the hot side of the system. This closed loop was described back in the 1970's, it's nothing new.

    Such a cooling system would glow in the dark. The hotter the initial state, the brighter the glow. A serious nuclear power plant such as TEM or something like it would shine like a little star.

    By the time we have reliable interplanetary travel worked out (at commercially-viable cost-benefit ratios), we will already have worked out personality-virtualisation and strong AI.

    Yeah, that Singularity is always just 20 years away, like controlled nuclear fusion. There are some serious issues in the way. For a start, the current state of AI isn't all that much further along that it was 30 years ago. Sure, sigmoid transfer functions and back-error-propagation combined with very, very large training sets have produced some really impressive gains over Marvin Minsky's attempts back in the 1960's, but we are still not even up to the level of many insects in terms of "thinking". I've not seen anything really pass the Turing test, frankly.

    Plus a genuinely virtualized "person" might not be particularly interested in whatever problem we suggest to be worked on. Maybe decide Mars is boring, and takes itself out to the rings of Saturn but never calls home.

    Non trivial problems are always so easy...when one doesn't really have an accurate problem description.

    Replies: @Mr. Rational

    Back before science fiction became feminized there were writers who could actually work with calculus to obtain answers.

    There still are.  They’re just having trouble getting published.

    radiation levels in deep space turn out to be so high that there’s no way to run around in a space suit for hours and hours.

    You need something like 10 tons/m² of matter to reduce radiation to surface-normal levels, but there’s ample reason to assume that surface-normal levels are far below the optimum and you can use quite a bit less.  Radiation hormesis is real.

    Plus really big solar flares push even more energetic particles out into the plane of the ecliptic

    It’s pretty easy to stop medium-energy protons.  GeV-level particles are another matter, and that describes the most dangerous cosmic rays.

    What is needed is a nuclear engine that is inherently more efficient than any chemical engine.

    Salt-water fission rocket.

  47. I just checked his brother’s twitter. Seems to be a republican but hardcore anti Trump.

  48. @Nodwink
    He just seems like a devoted shit-stirrer to me, I wouldn't take anything he says seriously.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Audacious Epigone

    I mostly agree to this, but there’s another component to it. Dogecoin represents “faith in Elon” and I believe he highly enjoys the personal cult that he has built to himself and wants to basically reward his faithful.

  49. @nebulafox
    @Chrisnonymous

    It's possible, but TBH, I think Musk tried to just forget about South Africa as soon as he left. Near as I can tell, he's never looked back. Reading about his childhood experiences, it is hard to blame him. Ultimately, only Musk knows what he knows, and I'm no more interested in his personal views on this than I am my doctor's.

    Again, most people don't have whole comprehensive theories about race that you see online. They just aren't interested. This is important to get when wondering about how very intelligent people in places like Silicon Valley can take what CNN says at face value. It's not part of their daily lives, nor is it a field they are particularly interested.

    (Peter Thiel also had a deeply negative experience as a child there, from what I recall. Apparently it was a very socially conservative, authoritarian rote learning culture, not too different from what Einstein hated about Germany growing up during the Kaiserreich.)

    Replies: @songbird, @BlackFlag

    Yeah, in my limited experience, wealthy people don’t have sophisticated views on most things. Not because they’re dumb but because they’re men of action. They don’t have the time or inclination for obscure history, theory, etc. Musk is autistic so he might be an exception.

  50. @songbird
    I've wondered about Musk's politics. On a certain level, he seems libertarian-minded.

    On the one hand, he did come from South Africa. Not that there aren't plenty of delusional white people there, and he did once throw white South Africans under the bus, by saying he got out of town because he didn't want to oppress blacks.

    On the other hand, I vaguely recall another quote, where he was skeptical about China successfully fixing its population problems by importing people. He said something like, "there aren't enough Indonesians", which might have been blank-slatism or a very oblique and cagey way of saying that he didn't think it was a good idea. In a way, it is remarkable that he touched on the subject at all - even though it would be considered extremely oblique, if it was actually partly in reference to the West.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    he did once throw white South Africans under the bus, by saying he got out of town because he didn’t want to oppress blacks

    What was the context? There is a flippant, funny way of saying your white flight is for the good of the non-whites you’re leaving behind. Because you’re such a bad person, white flight is a moral imperative. Out to the suburbs we go, then!

  51. @Nodwink
    He just seems like a devoted shit-stirrer to me, I wouldn't take anything he says seriously.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Audacious Epigone

    Even if his intention is unserious, the consequences of what he says are very serious for people holding the financial instruments he’s talking about at any given time.

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