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Twinkie on how an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure:

Democrats ramrodded extensive absentee voting, because they knew lazy leftist and “machine” voters went their way and because in-person (esp. late-deciding) voting would favor Trump greatly. Well, kudos to them – they prepared the battlefield for their favor while Trump just walked in to the ambush with apparently misguided confidence.

Politics is not unlike war or person-to-person combat. I always teach my children that in Judo and Jujitsu as well as real fighting you don’t put yourself in a bad position and try to work out of it. You don’t even fight from a neutral position. From the get-go, you always find some biomechanical or positional advantage and then snowball that advantage into a dominating victory.

When they’ve secured the high ground and the longbow, an uphill charge by the flower of the American deplorability isn’t enough to win the day no matter how heroic the charge.

Nebulafox on how populist American nationalism will progress one funeral at a time:

There’s just not much in the way of “victim” points to take advantage of, though, if you are an East Asian male, not least because you present A Problem for the narrative of a inveterately white supremacist America. You aren’t outright hated unless you break PC pieties (in which case, nothing protects you) like you are if you are a white male, but that’s about it, and in education admissions, you have it worse.

The reason why the GOP hasn’t been able to take effective advantage of this is the same reason that they’ve struggled with other demographics: economic ideology that is popular with no one but their donors. The good news is, younger Republicans (Josh Hawley) are waking up to that, and the kind of woke neoliberalism the Democrats are embracing is a juicy political target. Nor does it hurt that other politically toxic demographics that can only survive in the Beltway, such as the neocons, are gravitating toward the Democrats. The bad news is, American politics is dominated by geriatrics. Until McConnell croaks, the GOP Senate is going to be mentally stuck in the world of 1994.

As a side note, one thing that is under-commented on is how hostile woke strivers tend to be to young men in general who don’t belong to their world, or to a “protected” group. Again: Asian (and Hispanic) young men who don’t fit that mold for whatever reason aren’t outright loathed like their white counterparts, but they also don’t hold the sacred cow status that blacks do, and even a lot of young black men tend to be turned off by a party that seems to think something is wrong with being a traditional masculine male. Who wants to vote for the party of the HR department?

One of the biggest political questions of the next few years is how progressives will deal with the corporatist left weaponizing Wokeism against the progressive left’s economic populism. A federal minimum wage, UBI, and Medicare-for-All are popular causes championed by progressives, but they’re not popular with the Democrat establishment. The progressives who fell in line behind Biden/Harris don’t look like they’re going to get anything for it. When their complaints are met with charges of racism, sexism, etc from the office of the vice president, how will they respond?

 
• Category: Economics, Ideology • Tags: COTW 
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  1. if you are an East Asian male, not least because you present A Problem for the narrative of a inveterately white supremacist America. You aren’t outright hated unless you break PC pieties (in which case, nothing protects you) like you are if you are a white male, but that’s about it… Asian (and Hispanic) young men who don’t fit that mold for whatever reason aren’t outright loathed like their white counterparts, but they also don’t hold the sacred cow status that blacks do…

    Nebulafox is correct that in the Dictatorship of the Woketariat ideology, East Asian males don’t have the Original Sin that white men carry (so not “naturally” evil), but there are also certain disadvantages for the former.

    Remember the library guy? Did you catch the video at the very end where one of the black female demonstrators yells “Go back to Beijing” (that fella looked Korean, but never mind)?

    In Woke-talk, East Asian males can go very quickly from being “real Americans” (read, allies of the PoC/Woke-dom) to “fake Americans” (Booo! White-adjacent, foreign tools of oppression! You dirty alien interloper, you!) if they disavowed Social Justice pieties. Nobody says “Go back to England” to white males, who these clowns know – in their hearts and also implicitly acknowledge – belong here (I mean, whom are they going to date and marry otherwise?).

    I experienced this firsthand. I remember the very first time I went to vote – the Democratic canvasser saw me, made eye contact, and gave me a big smile while extending the voter guide sheet to me, presumably assuming that I must be a Democrat as a PoC. As soon as I said “No thanks” and went to grab the pamphlet from the Republican canvasser, he gave me an extremely evil look of loathing, as if to say, “Don’t you know I am trying to help you, C***k? What’s wrong with you?”

    I later saw the same look of hatred and disgust when upscale leftist canvassers had trouble convincing downscale white Republican voters – “How dumb and pathetic are you to vote for those evil rich Republicans!” – I now call this “What’s the Matter with Kansas” look.

    • Replies: @Tony
    @Twinkie

    “Don’t you know I am trying to help you, C***k? What’s wrong with you?”

    I thought you were Korean.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  2. In other news, watching 300 pound Antifa members of ambiguous sex dancing made me realize I picked an extremely bad year to quit drinking.

    • Replies: @Talha
    @nebulafox

    Serves you right! Why would you torture your eyes with that?!

    Peace.

    Here, cleanse your eyes with something wholesome:
    https://www.twitter.com/freak1ngawesome/status/1328971207631224833

  3. Question for commenters:

    Where are you going for news coverage of Trump’s legal challenges to the election? I don’t actually read news sites, and my normal method of collecting information about the world is failing in this instance… I don’t know/understand what’s going on. Who giving good coverage/commentary on the situation?

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @Chrisnonymous

    Zerohedge.com

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    , @V. K. Ovelund
    @Chrisnonymous


    Where are you going for news coverage of Trump’s legal challenges to the election?
     
    The Epoch Times lacks sufficient reporting resources to be an adequate national newspaper, but it's trying and it probably deserves support. This month, the Times has committed much of the limited reporting resources it has to answering precisely the question you ask.

    The Times' reporters are answering the simple who, what, when and where of it, day by day, courtroom by courtroom, agency by agency, state by state.

    It will be observed that The Epoch Times is a propaganda instrument of the Falun Gong, an obscure class of Chinese dissidents. This is true, but insofar as The New York Times is a more sinister propaganda instrument, The Epoch Times is at least propaganda by an owner [a] that actually likes American deplorables and [b] whose propaganda objective is clear, inoffensive, tangential, and not targeted for our destruction. The paper's reporters are mostly ordinary white Americans with ordinary American sensibilities—the sort of tradesmen The New York Times should employ but won't—so though most newspapers' owners probably have some agenda or other, The Epoch Times is straightforwardly delivering the coverage for which you have asked.

    I am a bit dissapointed in The Wall Street Journal, whose reporting resources are far greater, for letting itself get beaten by Epoch in this, but there you have it.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @Chrisnonymous

    Dave Pinsen's twitter

    https://twitter.com/dpinsen


    And the twitter of a guy who's doing a lot of the heavy lifting - Matt Braynard.

    One of his revelations is that there's one category of Wisconsin vote which doesn't require signature verification, and that's if you're "confined indefinitely". It looks as if 169,000 people decided that was their status in 2020, compared with 9,000 in 2016 and 3,000 in 2012.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/MattBraynard/status/1329849203993026577

  4. @Chrisnonymous
    Question for commenters:

    Where are you going for news coverage of Trump's legal challenges to the election? I don't actually read news sites, and my normal method of collecting information about the world is failing in this instance... I don't know/understand what's going on. Who giving good coverage/commentary on the situation?

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @V. K. Ovelund, @YetAnotherAnon

    Zerohedge.com

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @The Alarmist

    If you look through my comment history, you'll see I am a regular reader of ZeroHedge. However, from following it and CTH, I am not understanding what is going on.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

  5. Oddly enough, Mr. Trump in 2016 was the first R I voted for since Mr. Reagan. Every other vote, including nearly all down-ballot, has not been a vote for Rs as much as it has been a vote against Ds, which includes that for a disappointing Mr. Trump in 2020.

    The problem the Rs face is that I was likely not in the minority, and their pusillanimous “We’ll do better in the next election” attitude almost certainly assures they won’t. Sure, there will be Rs in Congress for as long as the Union lasts, but they will likely never again have any meaningful control, because millions like me will simply no longer vote.

    If Mitch McConnell really wants to win even one of the runoff seats in Georgia, he had better start working the phones to various state legislatures in contested states, especially Georgia, to get them on board with not certifying a Biden slate. You can be almost certain there will be fraud in the Georgia runoff unless it can be shown that fraud can and will be thwarted. That message needs to be sent before the runoff.

    It is time for the Rs to fight like the Ds, and either come home carrying their shields or being carried on them rather than whimpering under their desks that the Ds cheated but the Rs had to go along for the “good of our democracy” rather than protecting the viability of the republic.

    • Agree: Adam Smith
  6. @Chrisnonymous
    Question for commenters:

    Where are you going for news coverage of Trump's legal challenges to the election? I don't actually read news sites, and my normal method of collecting information about the world is failing in this instance... I don't know/understand what's going on. Who giving good coverage/commentary on the situation?

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @V. K. Ovelund, @YetAnotherAnon

    Where are you going for news coverage of Trump’s legal challenges to the election?

    The Epoch Times lacks sufficient reporting resources to be an adequate national newspaper, but it’s trying and it probably deserves support. This month, the Times has committed much of the limited reporting resources it has to answering precisely the question you ask.

    The Times’ reporters are answering the simple who, what, when and where of it, day by day, courtroom by courtroom, agency by agency, state by state.

    [MORE]

    It will be observed that The Epoch Times is a propaganda instrument of the Falun Gong, an obscure class of Chinese dissidents. This is true, but insofar as The New York Times is a more sinister propaganda instrument, The Epoch Times is at least propaganda by an owner [a] that actually likes American deplorables and [b] whose propaganda objective is clear, inoffensive, tangential, and not targeted for our destruction. The paper’s reporters are mostly ordinary white Americans with ordinary American sensibilities—the sort of tradesmen The New York Times should employ but won’t—so though most newspapers’ owners probably have some agenda or other, The Epoch Times is straightforwardly delivering the coverage for which you have asked.

    I am a bit dissapointed in The Wall Street Journal, whose reporting resources are far greater, for letting itself get beaten by Epoch in this, but there you have it.

    • Thanks: Chrisnonymous
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @V. K. Ovelund

    Thank you. I'll check out their coversge.

  7. “Motor voter” may not have been the first step towards increasing the participation of low-interest, low-information, likely Democratic voters, but it was the one I remember. How much value added is there in the votes of people who cannot be bothered to go to the local election board or voter registration authority and sign up to vote? Easily-obtainable absentee ballots and mail-in voting are furthering that process. Elections in Belarus are likely to be more authoritative than those in the U.S. in an election cycle or two.

    I believe that it was on an AE post that the phrase, “You can have universal-suffrage, mass-participatory democracy or you can have good government. Choose.”

  8. @nebulafox
    In other news, watching 300 pound Antifa members of ambiguous sex dancing made me realize I picked an extremely bad year to quit drinking.

    Replies: @Talha

    Serves you right! Why would you torture your eyes with that?!

    Peace.

    [MORE]

    Here, cleanse your eyes with something wholesome:
    https://www.twitter.com/freak1ngawesome/status/1328971207631224833

  9. The reason Asians favor the “liberal” Democrats is because the Democrats, as the party of tolerance, leave the Asians alone to quietly practice racial exclusion and to cultivate their innate sense of superiority.

    Republicans, on the other hand, encourage them to lay their cards on the table, which goes against the grain of the Asian way of doing things.

    • Agree: Chrisnonymous
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @ThreeCranes

    That statement agrees with my impressions as an expat living in Asia who interacted with Asian-Americans heavily in the past.

  10. @V. K. Ovelund
    @Chrisnonymous


    Where are you going for news coverage of Trump’s legal challenges to the election?
     
    The Epoch Times lacks sufficient reporting resources to be an adequate national newspaper, but it's trying and it probably deserves support. This month, the Times has committed much of the limited reporting resources it has to answering precisely the question you ask.

    The Times' reporters are answering the simple who, what, when and where of it, day by day, courtroom by courtroom, agency by agency, state by state.

    It will be observed that The Epoch Times is a propaganda instrument of the Falun Gong, an obscure class of Chinese dissidents. This is true, but insofar as The New York Times is a more sinister propaganda instrument, The Epoch Times is at least propaganda by an owner [a] that actually likes American deplorables and [b] whose propaganda objective is clear, inoffensive, tangential, and not targeted for our destruction. The paper's reporters are mostly ordinary white Americans with ordinary American sensibilities—the sort of tradesmen The New York Times should employ but won't—so though most newspapers' owners probably have some agenda or other, The Epoch Times is straightforwardly delivering the coverage for which you have asked.

    I am a bit dissapointed in The Wall Street Journal, whose reporting resources are far greater, for letting itself get beaten by Epoch in this, but there you have it.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    Thank you. I’ll check out their coversge.

  11. @ThreeCranes
    The reason Asians favor the "liberal" Democrats is because the Democrats, as the party of tolerance, leave the Asians alone to quietly practice racial exclusion and to cultivate their innate sense of superiority.

    Republicans, on the other hand, encourage them to lay their cards on the table, which goes against the grain of the Asian way of doing things.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    That statement agrees with my impressions as an expat living in Asia who interacted with Asian-Americans heavily in the past.

  12. @The Alarmist
    @Chrisnonymous

    Zerohedge.com

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    If you look through my comment history, you’ll see I am a regular reader of ZeroHedge. However, from following it and CTH, I am not understanding what is going on.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @Chrisnonymous

    You won’t get a clear, much less honest answer from any of the MSM, and outlets like OANN don’t offer much in the way of sober analysis. ZH presents bits and pieces, but with little analysis.

    Jonathan Turley occasionally susses out what might be going on, to wit:

    https://jonathanturley.org/2020/11/23/the-death-star-strategy-is-trump-contemplating-the-ultimate-constitutional-trick-shot/

    If you can handle the ranting and occasional dog sentimentality, the Mark Levin Show lays out what is politically and legally possible, but not so much what is likely or politically pragmatic.

    This is literally political insider baseball.

    Legally speaking, dismissals of lawsuits do not make any subsequent claims or suits any more or less valid, but it certainly colours the court of public opinion, which is what the Dems are counting on.

  13. @Chrisnonymous
    @The Alarmist

    If you look through my comment history, you'll see I am a regular reader of ZeroHedge. However, from following it and CTH, I am not understanding what is going on.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    You won’t get a clear, much less honest answer from any of the MSM, and outlets like OANN don’t offer much in the way of sober analysis. ZH presents bits and pieces, but with little analysis.

    Jonathan Turley occasionally susses out what might be going on, to wit:

    https://jonathanturley.org/2020/11/23/the-death-star-strategy-is-trump-contemplating-the-ultimate-constitutional-trick-shot/

    If you can handle the ranting and occasional dog sentimentality, the Mark Levin Show lays out what is politically and legally possible, but not so much what is likely or politically pragmatic.

    This is literally political insider baseball.

    Legally speaking, dismissals of lawsuits do not make any subsequent claims or suits any more or less valid, but it certainly colours the court of public opinion, which is what the Dems are counting on.

    • Thanks: Chrisnonymous
  14. The reason why the GOP hasn’t been able to take effective advantage of this is the same reason that they’ve struggled with other demographics: economic ideology that is popular with no one but their donors. … Until McConnell croaks, the GOP Senate is going to be mentally stuck in the world of 1994.

    You’d have to include Trump in there. 2016, Hillary warns that electing Trump means that people’s 401ks were going to drop, ignoring the fact that the median amount in retirement savings was $5k. 2020, Trump regularly boasts about the stock market, ignoring the fact that the median in retirement savings was now maybe 10k, and goes on to lose or tie Biden amongst college-educated whites.

    Allowing anyone to buy into Medicare and only subsidizing older folks is a winning position which might even help with the economics of the program and solves the issue of pre-existing conditions forever. Trump 2020, running the GOPe rhetoric, appears to have lost.

    Let the 2024 candidate learn.

  15. One my pet peeves is right libertarians letting themselves get maneuvered into defending the corporate elite whenever some progressive goes after the rich. Even when they call themselves populists and talk about the “corporate media” in disparaging terms, they can’t seem to abandon the knee jerk defense of big business when those on the left dare to point out that, yes, the very rich DO enjoy a lot of unaccountable power. This could be a wedge issue to drive between the neoliberal elite and progressive activists but libertarians are too attached to “vulgar libertarianism” ie assumption that current wealth distribution is mostly result of market forces.

    • Agree: Catdog
    • Replies: @Mark G.
    @Jtgw


    This could be a wedge issue to drive between the neoliberal elite and progressive activists but libertarians are too attached to “vulgar libertarianism” ie assumption that current wealth distribution is mostly result of market forces.
     
    I agree with that but you also have the same thing over on the non-libertarian side where they lump all rich people together and don't distinguish between people who earn money from selling goods and services on the market and people who get wealthy working for government or from having political pull so they can get government policies passed that benefit them. With some non-libertarians, you can get them to understand this and have them join a populist revolt against this neoliberal crony capitalist system. The libertarian writer Murray Rothbard advocated appealing to the average person since they were getting screwed over by the elites rather than a Hayek strategy of trying to get the elites to give up their privileged position. Rothbardian libertarians can sometimes make common cause with the Sam Francis or Pat Buchanan type of populist paleocon.

    You aren't going to convince some non-libertarians, though, because their animosity to the rich is just based on envy of anyone who has more than they do and they want to be able to take what they don't have. If a robber goes out and robs people, you don't think he spends much time thinking about whether the people he is robbing earned their money do you? An increasing percentage of the U.S. population is like that and will vote for soak the rich taxes. Some of the crony capitalist elites will politically support that as the lesser of two evils if the alternative is to end crony capitalism. Better to have higher taxes but be able to keep some of your ill gotten gains rather than risk the possibility of a much greater loss if the corrupt system that enriches you ends.

    Replies: @Jtgw

  16. The split between establishment and progressive would be the straw that broke the Democrats’ back, if there was a GOP that was half as crafty and manipulative as the Democratic party.

    That’s been apparent since Gore and bleeding obvious since Sanders and AOC, but a combination of lack of perceptiveness and appeasement centrism has made Republicans little more than the official scapegoat department of the Democratic Party for at least the past two decades.

    It’s high time to get them blaming each other for their failures, with the country watching, and kill the pernicious myth that their candidates could give the voters what they promised ‘if only those dastardly Republicans weren’t blocking them at every turn.’

  17. Mr Epigone says:

    One of the biggest political questions of the next few years is how progressives will deal with the corporatist left weaponizing Wokeism against the progressive left’s economic populism. A federal minimum wage, UBI, and Medicare-for-All are popular causes championed by progressives, but they’re not popular with the Democrat establishment. The progressives who fell in line behind Biden/Harris don’t look like they’re going to get anything for it. When their complaints are met with charges of racism, sexism, etc from the office of the vice president, how will they respond?

    When their complaints are met with charges of racism, sexism, etc from the office of the vice president, how will they respond?

    I say:

    The populist left must tell Biden Harris to screw off when the populist left is rebuffed on their policy proposals and they must fight harder for their goals regardless of the swear words of the ruling class — racism, sexism…etc. — that Kamala Harris might use as a dissuasive weapon and they must do it loudly and militantly and they have to follow the advice of that Black NY Times columnist Jamelle Bouie who said to keep the feet of Biden Harris and the Democrat Party’s ruling class to the fire.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/20/opinion/biden-fdr-left-new-deal.html

    The populist right must tell Biden Harris to screw off also and they must go right after Biden Harris for hypocrisy and mendacity and do it like Burl Ives(nobody will get that reference).

    I like that Biden Harris usage because it sounds like a cheap law firm out to grab cash just like Joe and Kamala.

    I wrote about how to deal with the Harris portion of Biden Harris in August of 2019:

    Kamala Harris is a mulatto mixed in with some Hindu type subcontinent Indian ancestry.

    That ain’t the kind of candidate the Black Church Ladies be done voting in.

    Hindu types are well known for haughtiness and hubris and looking down on every other damn caste type there is in India or any other place.

    These Hindu types think they’re the cat’s meow.

    I can’t believe that Joe Biden is gonna be the Democrat Party presidential primary candidate that successfully uses the AUNT JEMIMA STRATEGY to win the Democrat Party presidential primary election, but it just might be the case.

    The AUNT JEMIMA STRATEGY is to win the votes of Black lady voters in the South and other areas of high Black population concentration. Hillary Clinton used the AUNT JEMIMA STRATEGY to fend of Bernie Sanders in the 2016 Democrat Party presidential primary campaign.

    Kamala Harris, according to some guy on the internet, is married to a Jew whose parents moved away from an area in California that was under the threat of racial Black busing in order to avoid having to go to school with large concentrations of Blacks. This arrogant baby boomer boob Kamala Harris had the nerve to attack Joe Biden for his stance on Black racial busing when Kamala Harris’s own Jew husband’s parents moved to get away from the chance that their son would be caught up in the undertow of Black racial busing in California.

    Black Church Ladies and beautiful Aunt Jemima ladies don’t give a crap about no crocodile tears and fake rage about Black racial busing from some damn fool named Kamala Harris!

    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/2020-democratic-candidate-support-profiles/#comment-3411724

  18. how progressives will deal with the corporatist left weaponizing Wokeism against the progressive left’s economic populism. A federal minimum wage, UBI, and Medicare-for-All are popular causes championed by progressives, but they’re not popular with the Democrat establishment.

    I would argue that the “corporatist left” isn’t left. The true left isn’t interested in open borders and mass immigration. That is why Cesar Chavez’s members were patrolling the borders reporting or capturing illegal aliens. The “corporatist left” wants a minimum wage so everyone can work for minimum wage. Medicare-for-all is a cost saving for corporations. Virtually every country on the planet with a medicare-for-all system spends a lesser percentage of its GDP on the system than the US currently spends. It is the Wall Street lobby, which is not really “corporatist” in the sense that they actually produce something, that is opposed, because their cash cow would be vastly reduced. That is why their scare tactics are necessary.
    The “corporatist left” will be OK with all of it, as long as it doens’t interfere with an endless supply of cheap labour.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Curmudgeon


    I would argue that the “corporatist left” isn’t left. The true left isn’t interested in open borders and mass immigration.
     
    You also should add "free trade" to your list of corporate characteristics.
    ___

    The GOP change from Conservative to Populist means that it is no longer a "right" party. On policy the GOP has:

    Gained "left" positions:
    -- The GOP is now the party of Workers/Citizens. Trump did more for blue collar workers in 3 years that Barack Hussein managed in 8 years.

    Ejected "right" positions:
    -- The NeoCons went full #NeverTrump when no new wars were started. Look at Bill Kristol and George Will.
    -- The U.S. Chamber of Commerce was mortally offended by Trump choosing blue collar workers over their Elite special interests that wanted to flood the U.S. with cheap imports.

    International MegaCorporations and aggressive NeoCons are now permanently aligned with the DNC. Biden's pick for the EPA is a DuPont Chemical Company operative. (1)

    Progressives have 0% chance of reversing the DNC adoption of "core right" values. They got MegaCorp Executives to kneel for BLM, and thus lost control of what is now "Corporate BLM/SJW" messaging.

    PEACE 😇
    _______

    (1) https://www.zerohedge.com/political/erin-brokovich-writes-open-letter-joe-biden-are-you-kidding-me
    , @dfordoom
    @Curmudgeon


    I would argue that the “corporatist left” isn’t left.
     
    And I'd agree with you. We need to start talking about the right wing of the Democratic Party, because it really is right-wing. It's a meme that should be pushed.
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @Curmudgeon

    "Virtually every country on the planet with a medicare-for-all system spends a lesser percentage of its GDP on the system than the US currently spends."

    Is that a bad or a good thing in your opinion? I'm not sure the US gets value for money from its very large spend.

    Replies: @Curmudgeon

  19. anon[336] • Disclaimer says:

    Newly elected Congressional rep from the Colorado 3rd district asked the Capitol cops[1] if she could carry her Glock around Congress. The answer is pretty interesting.

    https://apnews.com/article/gun-politics-scott-tipton-shootings-1534f121e3944ad26bb87c6e7fd13808

    WASHINGTON (AP) — A firearms-toting congresswoman-elect who owns a gun-themed restaurant in Rifle, Colorado, has already asked Capitol Police about carrying her weapon on Capitol grounds, her office has acknowledged. If she does so, she apparently won’t be alone.

    [1] Capitol Police not even close to the same thing as the DC police. Not in any way.

  20. Mr Epigone says:

    When they’ve secured the high ground and the longbow, an uphill charge by the flower of the American deplorability isn’t enough to win the day no matter how heroic the charge.

    I say:

    Pickett’s Charge was up a slight incline but his men got butchered by cannonball and rifle on the march and the Normans were going up a steeper incline at Senlac Hill in 1066 but they had cavalry and they were able to get the Saxons to break out of their shield wall and their descendants still own a huge amount of the land mass of England and their descendants were the Virginians and the Saxons got their revenge by winning the first Civil War.

    Kamala Harris will start Civil War II just by being an annoying baby boomer bastard. The populist left will turn on Kamala Harris before the populist right and the populist left will play the role of the Norwegian King Harald who softened up the Saxons by invading England up north before William the Conqueror finished off the Saxon ruling class at the Battle of Hastings.

    Fat ass baby boomer Adelson/Kushner whore Trump must concede to start the populist left insurgency against Biden Harris and the Democrat Party ruling class. Ten minutes after Trump concedes, the populist left in the Democrat Party will start brawling with Biden Harris.

    MONETARY POLICY

    RULING CLASS

    DEMOGRAPHY

    DEBT

    IMMIGRATION

    CIVIL WAR II

    WHO CONTROLS THE MASS MEDIA?

    Roxy Music does Wilson Pickett’s In The Midnight Hour — the Byrds’ Eight Miles High covered by Roxy Music ain’t bad either and My Only Love is pretty good too:

  21. @Chrisnonymous
    Question for commenters:

    Where are you going for news coverage of Trump's legal challenges to the election? I don't actually read news sites, and my normal method of collecting information about the world is failing in this instance... I don't know/understand what's going on. Who giving good coverage/commentary on the situation?

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @V. K. Ovelund, @YetAnotherAnon

    Dave Pinsen’s twitter

    And the twitter of a guy who’s doing a lot of the heavy lifting – Matt Braynard.

    One of his revelations is that there’s one category of Wisconsin vote which doesn’t require signature verification, and that’s if you’re “confined indefinitely”. It looks as if 169,000 people decided that was their status in 2020, compared with 9,000 in 2016 and 3,000 in 2012.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/MattBraynard/status/1329849203993026577

    • Thanks: Chrisnonymous
  22. @Curmudgeon

    how progressives will deal with the corporatist left weaponizing Wokeism against the progressive left’s economic populism. A federal minimum wage, UBI, and Medicare-for-All are popular causes championed by progressives, but they’re not popular with the Democrat establishment.
     
    I would argue that the "corporatist left" isn't left. The true left isn't interested in open borders and mass immigration. That is why Cesar Chavez's members were patrolling the borders reporting or capturing illegal aliens. The "corporatist left" wants a minimum wage so everyone can work for minimum wage. Medicare-for-all is a cost saving for corporations. Virtually every country on the planet with a medicare-for-all system spends a lesser percentage of its GDP on the system than the US currently spends. It is the Wall Street lobby, which is not really "corporatist" in the sense that they actually produce something, that is opposed, because their cash cow would be vastly reduced. That is why their scare tactics are necessary.
    The "corporatist left" will be OK with all of it, as long as it doens't interfere with an endless supply of cheap labour.

    Replies: @A123, @dfordoom, @YetAnotherAnon

    I would argue that the “corporatist left” isn’t left. The true left isn’t interested in open borders and mass immigration.

    You also should add “free trade” to your list of corporate characteristics.
    ___

    The GOP change from Conservative to Populist means that it is no longer a “right” party. On policy the GOP has:

    Gained “left” positions:
    — The GOP is now the party of Workers/Citizens. Trump did more for blue collar workers in 3 years that Barack Hussein managed in 8 years.

    Ejected “right” positions:
    — The NeoCons went full #NeverTrump when no new wars were started. Look at Bill Kristol and George Will.
    — The U.S. Chamber of Commerce was mortally offended by Trump choosing blue collar workers over their Elite special interests that wanted to flood the U.S. with cheap imports.

    International MegaCorporations and aggressive NeoCons are now permanently aligned with the DNC. Biden’s pick for the EPA is a DuPont Chemical Company operative. (1)

    Progressives have 0% chance of reversing the DNC adoption of “core right” values. They got MegaCorp Executives to kneel for BLM, and thus lost control of what is now “Corporate BLM/SJW” messaging.

    PEACE 😇
    _______

    (1) https://www.zerohedge.com/political/erin-brokovich-writes-open-letter-joe-biden-are-you-kidding-me

  23. Good Cop, Bad Cop (ver 2.0)

    Trump used Bad Cop John Bolton to drive the Fake Stream Media [FSM] nuts. Bolton said extreme things and then Good Cop TRUMP disagreed with him publicly.

    Today Good Cop TRUMP publicly separated from Bad Cop Sidney Powell. The FSM is in disarray. Even though they have been calling for Bad Cop Sidney Powell to leave, they cannot cope with the fact Good Cop TRUMP did what they wanted.
    ____

    One key difference — Powell has strong connections to independent groups. Unlike Bolton, she can continue to work on the massive fraud associated with voting machines. (1)

    In a statement of her own, Powell acknowledged that she “underst[ood] today’s press release” and that she would continue her work on behalf of “#WeThePeople who had their votes for Trump and other Republicans stolen by massive fraud…”

    PEACE 😇
    _______

    (1) https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/11/exit-sidney-powell.php

  24. The Japanese held fortified positions on the high ground at Okinawa. Didn’t do them much good.

    Maybe we will find that replacing three seats on the Supreme Court will give Trump the ability to circumvent their defenses.

    Maybe in historical hindsight it will look like a foregone conclusion and this few weeks as Biden the President-elect will seem mighty silly.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @James Braxton


    The Japanese held fortified positions on the high ground at Okinawa. Didn’t do them much good.
     
    But that’s all they had. They were outnumbered, out-gunned, completely cut off from resupply and had the air utterly dominated by their opponents. That’s hardly preparing the battlefield in their favor.

    Replies: @James Braxton

  25. My experience with Chinese or North Asians in the US is that they attribute certain features to the conservative ideology, like low taxes, being able to keep the fruits of your hard work or right decisions, saving instead of spending, building for the future, taking care of your family, working hard in school, valuing education and hard work, law and order and low crime ensured by a competent government.

    All the extreme social stuff, glorifying LGBT, transgender, rioting and demonstrating every day, this is just a turn off for them. They don’t have that social memory that says, sometimes social change only comes with that.

    So they want to vote Republican, but are turned off by the horrific corruption, warmongering and racism inherent in many of the slimebag, scumsucking republican politicians like Delusional Donny Trump, Tom “microcephalic” Cotton, sweaty little Marco Rubio, man-pig hybrid Pompeo and so on.

    Trump and his petpig Pompeo screaming Chyna, Chyna, Kung Flu was an extreme turn off for them and self-goal for Trump, ensuring that every Chinese, Taiwanese, Vietnamese, Korean and so on would hold their nose and vote Biden.

    They’ve learnt that the Dems are the least harmful to them, and they won’t forget it.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @GreatSocialist


    Trump and his petpig Pompeo screaming Chyna, Chyna, Kung Flu was an extreme turn off for them and self-goal for Trump, ensuring that every Chinese, Taiwanese, Vietnamese, Korean and so on would hold their nose and vote Biden.

    They’ve learnt that the Dems are the least harmful to them, and they won’t forget it.
     

    What you say may be true, though your adjective “every” is plainly a gross exaggeration. I do not know. Even discounting the “every,” I am skeptical that it is that simple.

    Since I have never once witnessed a single genuine expression of pan-east-Asian ethnic solidarity, I am also skeptical that Vietnamese and Koreans can usefully be lumped with Chinese.

    However, white U.S. Gentiles—who do increasingly have ethnic solidarity because it has been forced upon them—will not indefinitely put up with national parties that disdain or ignore their interests. If any particular Chinese has a problem with that (and hardly all of them do), then that particular Chinese can continue to support the BLM Antifa pervert party of social destruction as long as he can stomach it.

    White people have interests. This is nonnegotiable.

    So is there anything white U.S. gentiles should do to placate unsettled east Asian fellow citizens? Yes. They should poaching their women.

    I suspect the last point may have as much to do with the present antipathy as perceived mockery of “Chyna” has.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @dfordoom, @Twinkie

  26. @Jtgw
    One my pet peeves is right libertarians letting themselves get maneuvered into defending the corporate elite whenever some progressive goes after the rich. Even when they call themselves populists and talk about the “corporate media” in disparaging terms, they can’t seem to abandon the knee jerk defense of big business when those on the left dare to point out that, yes, the very rich DO enjoy a lot of unaccountable power. This could be a wedge issue to drive between the neoliberal elite and progressive activists but libertarians are too attached to “vulgar libertarianism” ie assumption that current wealth distribution is mostly result of market forces.

    Replies: @Mark G.

    This could be a wedge issue to drive between the neoliberal elite and progressive activists but libertarians are too attached to “vulgar libertarianism” ie assumption that current wealth distribution is mostly result of market forces.

    I agree with that but you also have the same thing over on the non-libertarian side where they lump all rich people together and don’t distinguish between people who earn money from selling goods and services on the market and people who get wealthy working for government or from having political pull so they can get government policies passed that benefit them. With some non-libertarians, you can get them to understand this and have them join a populist revolt against this neoliberal crony capitalist system. The libertarian writer Murray Rothbard advocated appealing to the average person since they were getting screwed over by the elites rather than a Hayek strategy of trying to get the elites to give up their privileged position. Rothbardian libertarians can sometimes make common cause with the Sam Francis or Pat Buchanan type of populist paleocon.

    You aren’t going to convince some non-libertarians, though, because their animosity to the rich is just based on envy of anyone who has more than they do and they want to be able to take what they don’t have. If a robber goes out and robs people, you don’t think he spends much time thinking about whether the people he is robbing earned their money do you? An increasing percentage of the U.S. population is like that and will vote for soak the rich taxes. Some of the crony capitalist elites will politically support that as the lesser of two evils if the alternative is to end crony capitalism. Better to have higher taxes but be able to keep some of your ill gotten gains rather than risk the possibility of a much greater loss if the corrupt system that enriches you ends.

    • Replies: @Jtgw
    @Mark G.

    Yes your points are valid. I’m not concerned with winning over the progressive activists, who will all get free helicopter rides come the counterrevolution; I’m concerned with the working class types that are attracted to soak the rich populist policies because they know the elite are screwing them over. Lecturing them about how beneficent their bosses are is a bad look.

  27. @James Braxton
    The Japanese held fortified positions on the high ground at Okinawa. Didn't do them much good.

    Maybe we will find that replacing three seats on the Supreme Court will give Trump the ability to circumvent their defenses.

    Maybe in historical hindsight it will look like a foregone conclusion and this few weeks as Biden the President-elect will seem mighty silly.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    The Japanese held fortified positions on the high ground at Okinawa. Didn’t do them much good.

    But that’s all they had. They were outnumbered, out-gunned, completely cut off from resupply and had the air utterly dominated by their opponents. That’s hardly preparing the battlefield in their favor.

    • Replies: @James Braxton
    @Twinkie

    Maybe it would be better to compare this to a war between medieval princes where one side has stronger castles but the other side can count on the Pope intervening on its behalf.

  28. When they’ve secured the high ground and the longbow, an uphill charge by the flower of the American deplorability isn’t enough to win the day no matter how heroic the charge.

    Being an incorrigible romantic and a sentimentalist, I’m a sucker for the “noble loser” mythology as any Japanese or Old Southerner, but even I would concede that such a mythology is what kids these days call a “cope.”

    In my life experience, it’s better to be good than right in interpersonal relations, but in war and politics, it’s better to win than be right.

  29. @Curmudgeon

    how progressives will deal with the corporatist left weaponizing Wokeism against the progressive left’s economic populism. A federal minimum wage, UBI, and Medicare-for-All are popular causes championed by progressives, but they’re not popular with the Democrat establishment.
     
    I would argue that the "corporatist left" isn't left. The true left isn't interested in open borders and mass immigration. That is why Cesar Chavez's members were patrolling the borders reporting or capturing illegal aliens. The "corporatist left" wants a minimum wage so everyone can work for minimum wage. Medicare-for-all is a cost saving for corporations. Virtually every country on the planet with a medicare-for-all system spends a lesser percentage of its GDP on the system than the US currently spends. It is the Wall Street lobby, which is not really "corporatist" in the sense that they actually produce something, that is opposed, because their cash cow would be vastly reduced. That is why their scare tactics are necessary.
    The "corporatist left" will be OK with all of it, as long as it doens't interfere with an endless supply of cheap labour.

    Replies: @A123, @dfordoom, @YetAnotherAnon

    I would argue that the “corporatist left” isn’t left.

    And I’d agree with you. We need to start talking about the right wing of the Democratic Party, because it really is right-wing. It’s a meme that should be pushed.

  30. @Twinkie
    @James Braxton


    The Japanese held fortified positions on the high ground at Okinawa. Didn’t do them much good.
     
    But that’s all they had. They were outnumbered, out-gunned, completely cut off from resupply and had the air utterly dominated by their opponents. That’s hardly preparing the battlefield in their favor.

    Replies: @James Braxton

    Maybe it would be better to compare this to a war between medieval princes where one side has stronger castles but the other side can count on the Pope intervening on its behalf.

  31. @GreatSocialist
    My experience with Chinese or North Asians in the US is that they attribute certain features to the conservative ideology, like low taxes, being able to keep the fruits of your hard work or right decisions, saving instead of spending, building for the future, taking care of your family, working hard in school, valuing education and hard work, law and order and low crime ensured by a competent government.

    All the extreme social stuff, glorifying LGBT, transgender, rioting and demonstrating every day, this is just a turn off for them. They don't have that social memory that says, sometimes social change only comes with that.

    So they want to vote Republican, but are turned off by the horrific corruption, warmongering and racism inherent in many of the slimebag, scumsucking republican politicians like Delusional Donny Trump, Tom "microcephalic" Cotton, sweaty little Marco Rubio, man-pig hybrid Pompeo and so on.

    Trump and his petpig Pompeo screaming Chyna, Chyna, Kung Flu was an extreme turn off for them and self-goal for Trump, ensuring that every Chinese, Taiwanese, Vietnamese, Korean and so on would hold their nose and vote Biden.

    They've learnt that the Dems are the least harmful to them, and they won't forget it.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

    Trump and his petpig Pompeo screaming Chyna, Chyna, Kung Flu was an extreme turn off for them and self-goal for Trump, ensuring that every Chinese, Taiwanese, Vietnamese, Korean and so on would hold their nose and vote Biden.

    They’ve learnt that the Dems are the least harmful to them, and they won’t forget it.

    What you say may be true, though your adjective “every” is plainly a gross exaggeration. I do not know. Even discounting the “every,” I am skeptical that it is that simple.

    Since I have never once witnessed a single genuine expression of pan-east-Asian ethnic solidarity, I am also skeptical that Vietnamese and Koreans can usefully be lumped with Chinese.

    However, white U.S. Gentiles—who do increasingly have ethnic solidarity because it has been forced upon them—will not indefinitely put up with national parties that disdain or ignore their interests. If any particular Chinese has a problem with that (and hardly all of them do), then that particular Chinese can continue to support the BLM Antifa pervert party of social destruction as long as he can stomach it.

    White people have interests. This is nonnegotiable.

    So is there anything white U.S. gentiles should do to placate unsettled east Asian fellow citizens? Yes. They should poaching their women.

    I suspect the last point may have as much to do with the present antipathy as perceived mockery of “Chyna” has.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @V. K. Ovelund

    My last comment inadvertently omitted the key word “stop.”

    White U.S. Gentiles should stop poaching east Asian women.

    I hate it when a typo destroys my punchline.

    , @dfordoom
    @V. K. Ovelund


    White people have interests.
     
    But they don't. Various groups of white people have interests and those interests conflict. There is no common ground between those groups and they hate each other and those hatreds (particularly class, regional and ideological hatreds) are going to intensify. White people are going to be ever more divided. There is zero chance of pan-white solidarity.

    You'd have a marginally better chance of achieving regional solidarity (flyover country vs coastal elites) or class solidarity (non-elites vs elites).

    Hoping for white solidarity is just chasing daydreams.

    If the enemy is neo-liberalism the smart move is to forget the racial stuff and start looking for alliances between groups that have a common interest in opposing neo-liberalism. Start looking for sub-groups among East Asians and Hispanics who might also have a grudge against neo-liberalism. East Asians and Hispanics resemble white people in the sense that they're not monolithic blocs.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @El Dato

    , @Twinkie
    @V. K. Ovelund


    Since I have never once witnessed a single genuine expression of pan-east-Asian ethnic solidarity, I am also skeptical that Vietnamese and Koreans can usefully be lumped with Chinese.
     
    These groups have very divergent voting patterns, with Koreans and Filipinos voting for Trump at higher percentages than Chinese and Indians. And you are correct that pan-East Asian solidarity is non-existent, let alone pan-Asian one. It’s only popular with academia and constantly pushed by the media, but almost never encountered among normal people.

    White U.S. Gentiles should stop poaching east Asian women.
     
    Notwithstanding the internet whining by losers online, this is not a sore subject among ordinary Asians, in part because a high percentage of American-born Asian males marry white females as well (if not quite at the female rate). The disparity of WMAF couples and AMWF couples is largely a phenomenon among foreign-born Asian populations and is also more prominent among older married cohorts (e.g. GI-brides).

    A large fraction, perhaps most, of Asians see marrying whites as a part of the assimilation process and becoming American. For example, Koreans born in America of both sexes have the highest intermarriage rates with whites among Asians here and, unsurprisingly, the absolute number of those identifying themselves as ethnically Korean between the last two Censuses declined (another part of that explanation is, of course, that immigration from Koreas has cratered as it has become a highly developed economy).

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

  32. @V. K. Ovelund
    @GreatSocialist


    Trump and his petpig Pompeo screaming Chyna, Chyna, Kung Flu was an extreme turn off for them and self-goal for Trump, ensuring that every Chinese, Taiwanese, Vietnamese, Korean and so on would hold their nose and vote Biden.

    They’ve learnt that the Dems are the least harmful to them, and they won’t forget it.
     

    What you say may be true, though your adjective “every” is plainly a gross exaggeration. I do not know. Even discounting the “every,” I am skeptical that it is that simple.

    Since I have never once witnessed a single genuine expression of pan-east-Asian ethnic solidarity, I am also skeptical that Vietnamese and Koreans can usefully be lumped with Chinese.

    However, white U.S. Gentiles—who do increasingly have ethnic solidarity because it has been forced upon them—will not indefinitely put up with national parties that disdain or ignore their interests. If any particular Chinese has a problem with that (and hardly all of them do), then that particular Chinese can continue to support the BLM Antifa pervert party of social destruction as long as he can stomach it.

    White people have interests. This is nonnegotiable.

    So is there anything white U.S. gentiles should do to placate unsettled east Asian fellow citizens? Yes. They should poaching their women.

    I suspect the last point may have as much to do with the present antipathy as perceived mockery of “Chyna” has.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @dfordoom, @Twinkie

    My last comment inadvertently omitted the key word “stop.”

    White U.S. Gentiles should stop poaching east Asian women.

    I hate it when a typo destroys my punchline.

  33. @V. K. Ovelund
    @GreatSocialist


    Trump and his petpig Pompeo screaming Chyna, Chyna, Kung Flu was an extreme turn off for them and self-goal for Trump, ensuring that every Chinese, Taiwanese, Vietnamese, Korean and so on would hold their nose and vote Biden.

    They’ve learnt that the Dems are the least harmful to them, and they won’t forget it.
     

    What you say may be true, though your adjective “every” is plainly a gross exaggeration. I do not know. Even discounting the “every,” I am skeptical that it is that simple.

    Since I have never once witnessed a single genuine expression of pan-east-Asian ethnic solidarity, I am also skeptical that Vietnamese and Koreans can usefully be lumped with Chinese.

    However, white U.S. Gentiles—who do increasingly have ethnic solidarity because it has been forced upon them—will not indefinitely put up with national parties that disdain or ignore their interests. If any particular Chinese has a problem with that (and hardly all of them do), then that particular Chinese can continue to support the BLM Antifa pervert party of social destruction as long as he can stomach it.

    White people have interests. This is nonnegotiable.

    So is there anything white U.S. gentiles should do to placate unsettled east Asian fellow citizens? Yes. They should poaching their women.

    I suspect the last point may have as much to do with the present antipathy as perceived mockery of “Chyna” has.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @dfordoom, @Twinkie

    White people have interests.

    But they don’t. Various groups of white people have interests and those interests conflict. There is no common ground between those groups and they hate each other and those hatreds (particularly class, regional and ideological hatreds) are going to intensify. White people are going to be ever more divided. There is zero chance of pan-white solidarity.

    You’d have a marginally better chance of achieving regional solidarity (flyover country vs coastal elites) or class solidarity (non-elites vs elites).

    Hoping for white solidarity is just chasing daydreams.

    If the enemy is neo-liberalism the smart move is to forget the racial stuff and start looking for alliances between groups that have a common interest in opposing neo-liberalism. Start looking for sub-groups among East Asians and Hispanics who might also have a grudge against neo-liberalism. East Asians and Hispanics resemble white people in the sense that they’re not monolithic blocs.

    • Agree: iffen
    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @dfordoom



    White people have interests.
     
    But they don’t....
     
    In the United States, they do.

    Hoping for white solidarity is just chasing daydreams.
     
    I observe white solidarity with my own eyes. Whites deny it and Stockholm syndrome obscures it, but I observe it. Frequently.

    Until you have lived in a country in which 85 percent of the births were to white European Gentiles 60 years ago as against 45 percent today—a country your ancestors built but in which your people are now pettily derided and oppressed at every turn—you cannot understand this. Australia is not the United States.

    Haven't you got any Boer neighbors? Ask them whether they believe me.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Johann Ricke

    , @El Dato
    @dfordoom


    You’d have a marginally better chance of achieving regional solidarity (flyover country vs coastal elites) or class solidarity (non-elites vs elites).
     
    Why don't you White leftist thickheads get it into your head that race matters? Third World people understand it but snotty White people want to be beyond race. "Race is below us oooo, we want something higher", no sane Third Worler will go for th is bullshit, they would laugh their ass out. Workers of the World Unite LOL. Tell that to a bunch of tough macho Indian workers and they would laugh so hard, you would pee in your pants. In this Universe it is impossible for say Indian workers or Iranian workers to ally with Russian workers for some idiotic class struggle. The typical Indian worker would unite with his Indian boss against Russian workers or Chinese workers. And that is the entire sane natural Third World for you. Tribal as humans were meant to be.
    I know you guys are beyond lowly things as race, but come down on earth for a bit.

    Replies: @dfordoom

  34. @dfordoom
    @V. K. Ovelund


    White people have interests.
     
    But they don't. Various groups of white people have interests and those interests conflict. There is no common ground between those groups and they hate each other and those hatreds (particularly class, regional and ideological hatreds) are going to intensify. White people are going to be ever more divided. There is zero chance of pan-white solidarity.

    You'd have a marginally better chance of achieving regional solidarity (flyover country vs coastal elites) or class solidarity (non-elites vs elites).

    Hoping for white solidarity is just chasing daydreams.

    If the enemy is neo-liberalism the smart move is to forget the racial stuff and start looking for alliances between groups that have a common interest in opposing neo-liberalism. Start looking for sub-groups among East Asians and Hispanics who might also have a grudge against neo-liberalism. East Asians and Hispanics resemble white people in the sense that they're not monolithic blocs.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @El Dato

    White people have interests.

    But they don’t….

    In the United States, they do.

    Hoping for white solidarity is just chasing daydreams.

    I observe white solidarity with my own eyes. Whites deny it and Stockholm syndrome obscures it, but I observe it. Frequently.

    Until you have lived in a country in which 85 percent of the births were to white European Gentiles 60 years ago as against 45 percent today—a country your ancestors built but in which your people are now pettily derided and oppressed at every turn—you cannot understand this. Australia is not the United States.

    Haven’t you got any Boer neighbors? Ask them whether they believe me.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @V. K. Ovelund


    In the United States, they do.
     
    Of course whites have interests - everyone does. The salient question is, do such ethnic interests override other “sectional” interests that whites have?

    It’s a mistake to view white political behaviors through the lens of black (and to a lesser extent, Hispanic) political patterns. Being black also means that the person is also of low socio-economic class and poorly educated. With blacks and Hispanics, there are several confounding variables that increase their political monolithicism.

    Whites are an overwhelming majority of the electorate with vastly different economic and social interests. Their sense of tribalism is much more strongly motivated by such interests than by race. Seen in that light, the current Kulturkampf is a white people civil war, in which one side is much more successful in enlisting non-white auxiliaries. Affirmative action, for example, doesn’t hurt affluent GoodWhites - it hurts bright, but less affluent BadWhites from the flyover country and helps the black and brown allies of the GoodWhites (not as much as these allies think). It even helps the GoodWhites by removing the BadWhites and certain Asians from the competitor pool.

    However, I do think that white ethnic solidarity as such will increase in the future as their share of the population decreases and as other groups attain greater political power. Nonetheless, unless there is a drastic demographic change, I don’t think whites will have the kind of political uniformity blacks have. Whites would have to decline enormously to resemble being only 10-13% of the population and being almost uniformly poor and unmarried... though that is increasing the state of downscale whites, among whom the sense of race solidarity seems to be on the rise. But can you see the substantial fraction of whites who are affluent and educated having solidarity with the former?

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Johann Ricke, @V. K. Ovelund

    , @Johann Ricke
    @V. K. Ovelund


    Until you have lived in a country in which 85 percent of the births were to white European Gentiles 60 years ago as against 45 percent today—a country your ancestors built but in which your people are now pettily derided and oppressed at every turn—you cannot understand this. Australia is not the United States.
     
    Australia's population is probably 80% white. Until the 1970's, there was an explicitly White Australia policy.

    dfordoom sounds like he might be Chinese, given his affinity for China, combined with an explicit disdain for the US. I've known a few dozen Australians. Can't think of a single one that was as anti-American as dfordoom is. On average, Australians are to the left of the US, but few Australians would have any problem fitting in stateside - they'd probably blend in better than the average Brit (with the exception of dfordoom).

    Replies: @dfordoom

  35. “Wokeism” is like the rest of the “democratic” talking points.

    Useless fluff that doesn’t challenge the status quo and provides cover.

    Political Correctness is Communism is Slavery.

    These fake pieties mask the Closed Set of The Club.

    Its all One Big Club and you ain’t in it suckers.

    Only a revolution or War can disrupt the cozy insiders that suck all day and night.

    War is now inevitable. They made sure of that.

    Stupid Joe Biden is the perfect idiot to enrage the Populists that made Trump POTUS.

    The System is headed for a nasty surprise. They do not have any more cards to play NOW.

  36. @Curmudgeon

    how progressives will deal with the corporatist left weaponizing Wokeism against the progressive left’s economic populism. A federal minimum wage, UBI, and Medicare-for-All are popular causes championed by progressives, but they’re not popular with the Democrat establishment.
     
    I would argue that the "corporatist left" isn't left. The true left isn't interested in open borders and mass immigration. That is why Cesar Chavez's members were patrolling the borders reporting or capturing illegal aliens. The "corporatist left" wants a minimum wage so everyone can work for minimum wage. Medicare-for-all is a cost saving for corporations. Virtually every country on the planet with a medicare-for-all system spends a lesser percentage of its GDP on the system than the US currently spends. It is the Wall Street lobby, which is not really "corporatist" in the sense that they actually produce something, that is opposed, because their cash cow would be vastly reduced. That is why their scare tactics are necessary.
    The "corporatist left" will be OK with all of it, as long as it doens't interfere with an endless supply of cheap labour.

    Replies: @A123, @dfordoom, @YetAnotherAnon

    “Virtually every country on the planet with a medicare-for-all system spends a lesser percentage of its GDP on the system than the US currently spends.”

    Is that a bad or a good thing in your opinion? I’m not sure the US gets value for money from its very large spend.

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
    @YetAnotherAnon

    I can't answer in "good thing" or "bad thing". My preference is a universal system. There are many models, most developed to reflect the needs of the country. That was turned on its head in the 80s and 90s when "health care reform" pushed by "consultants" mangled many of the systems, more so in countries with "conservative" governments. Ironically, most of the "consultants" were from the US. That said, they are still less expensive and almost all have better outcomes.
    The point I was making is that the US government would get better value for money if it went to a single payer system. I recognize the jurisdictional challenges between the Feds and the States, but that has been overcome in other countries, and should be achievable in the US.

    Replies: @anon

  37. @YetAnotherAnon
    @Curmudgeon

    "Virtually every country on the planet with a medicare-for-all system spends a lesser percentage of its GDP on the system than the US currently spends."

    Is that a bad or a good thing in your opinion? I'm not sure the US gets value for money from its very large spend.

    Replies: @Curmudgeon

    I can’t answer in “good thing” or “bad thing”. My preference is a universal system. There are many models, most developed to reflect the needs of the country. That was turned on its head in the 80s and 90s when “health care reform” pushed by “consultants” mangled many of the systems, more so in countries with “conservative” governments. Ironically, most of the “consultants” were from the US. That said, they are still less expensive and almost all have better outcomes.
    The point I was making is that the US government would get better value for money if it went to a single payer system. I recognize the jurisdictional challenges between the Feds and the States, but that has been overcome in other countries, and should be achievable in the US.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Curmudgeon

    The point I was making is that the US government would get better value for money if it went to a single payer system.

    Following that logic there must be no fraud or abuse of the existing Medicare system, because it must have all that single-payer effeciency.

    Do you believe that to be true?

    What's the population of Sweden? Or Switzerland? Or Korea? Or Slovakia? How many Africans are enrolled in their health care system, and why does that matter?

    For a bonus question, how is Medicare funded, and what would expanding it to a universal system do fiscally?

    You're not the first person to make these claims, y'know.

    Replies: @Curmudgeon

  38. @Mark G.
    @Jtgw


    This could be a wedge issue to drive between the neoliberal elite and progressive activists but libertarians are too attached to “vulgar libertarianism” ie assumption that current wealth distribution is mostly result of market forces.
     
    I agree with that but you also have the same thing over on the non-libertarian side where they lump all rich people together and don't distinguish between people who earn money from selling goods and services on the market and people who get wealthy working for government or from having political pull so they can get government policies passed that benefit them. With some non-libertarians, you can get them to understand this and have them join a populist revolt against this neoliberal crony capitalist system. The libertarian writer Murray Rothbard advocated appealing to the average person since they were getting screwed over by the elites rather than a Hayek strategy of trying to get the elites to give up their privileged position. Rothbardian libertarians can sometimes make common cause with the Sam Francis or Pat Buchanan type of populist paleocon.

    You aren't going to convince some non-libertarians, though, because their animosity to the rich is just based on envy of anyone who has more than they do and they want to be able to take what they don't have. If a robber goes out and robs people, you don't think he spends much time thinking about whether the people he is robbing earned their money do you? An increasing percentage of the U.S. population is like that and will vote for soak the rich taxes. Some of the crony capitalist elites will politically support that as the lesser of two evils if the alternative is to end crony capitalism. Better to have higher taxes but be able to keep some of your ill gotten gains rather than risk the possibility of a much greater loss if the corrupt system that enriches you ends.

    Replies: @Jtgw

    Yes your points are valid. I’m not concerned with winning over the progressive activists, who will all get free helicopter rides come the counterrevolution; I’m concerned with the working class types that are attracted to soak the rich populist policies because they know the elite are screwing them over. Lecturing them about how beneficent their bosses are is a bad look.

    • Agree: Mark G., V. K. Ovelund
  39. anon[246] • Disclaimer says:
    @Curmudgeon
    @YetAnotherAnon

    I can't answer in "good thing" or "bad thing". My preference is a universal system. There are many models, most developed to reflect the needs of the country. That was turned on its head in the 80s and 90s when "health care reform" pushed by "consultants" mangled many of the systems, more so in countries with "conservative" governments. Ironically, most of the "consultants" were from the US. That said, they are still less expensive and almost all have better outcomes.
    The point I was making is that the US government would get better value for money if it went to a single payer system. I recognize the jurisdictional challenges between the Feds and the States, but that has been overcome in other countries, and should be achievable in the US.

    Replies: @anon

    The point I was making is that the US government would get better value for money if it went to a single payer system.

    Following that logic there must be no fraud or abuse of the existing Medicare system, because it must have all that single-payer effeciency.

    Do you believe that to be true?

    What’s the population of Sweden? Or Switzerland? Or Korea? Or Slovakia? How many Africans are enrolled in their health care system, and why does that matter?

    For a bonus question, how is Medicare funded, and what would expanding it to a universal system do fiscally?

    You’re not the first person to make these claims, y’know.

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
    @anon

    As I said, there are several universal model types. There will always be some level of fraud in any system, it is virtually impossible to stop completely.
    The most frequent system referred to in the US is the Canadian system, which has undergone considerable "reform" (deform) over the last 30 years. In short, there is Federal Legislation that mandates publicly administered health care, and cost sharing provisions to ensure necessary services are covered. Each provincial government is responsible for organizing their system in a way that suits the needs of the province. In the "old system" individual hospitals submitted annual budgets for providing government approved (contracted) programmes, such as orthopedic surgery, and the budgets were generally approved. The hospitals were free to offer other services not contracted, and could raise money to do that, as they pleased. The budgets included all aspects of running the facility from housekeeping to new equipment. If hospitals had surpluses, they could normally keep them. If unforeseen events created deficits, the deficit would most often be funded. Today, the hospital side is run by "regional health authorities" within each province. They are essentially managed care HMOs. The hospitals have very little autonomy currently, thanks to the US "experts that came in the 90s to advise us on how to run our system. Administrations and managers have tripled in number.

    On the MD fee side, each province has "insured services" similar to insurance companies. The MD bills directly. The MDs negotiate collectively, they are a union, but won't call themselves that, for both the fee guide - office visits, surgical procedures, diagnostic testing, etc. I go to any doctor I want for GP exams, but you can't go directly to a specialist, except for cosmetic surgery, which is on your own hook, unless connected to an illness (e.g. breast reconstruction after cancer) or injury (e.g. cleft palate or post accident facial reconstruction.
    Not all services are covered. Dental is not covered, unless performed in a hospital, (like wisdom extractions). Routine eye exams are not covered any longer, for adults. Some physio and/or occupational therapy is now not covered. I have private insurance for those. My province has a Pharmacare programme for prescription drugs (other than those used in hospital stays or cancer treatment), with a deductible based on a % of income. After that all prescription drugs are covered. Private insurance can be purchased to cover the gap. Other provinces do not have a similar programme. My province also provides home care for those returning from hospital, or not really ready for nursing homes. It is cheaper to have them at home than in nursing homes (Private are available, but most geared to income). Most other provinces do not. Our current conservative government is doing its best to privatize and de-list whatever services it can.
    As for cost, while attending several IFEBP conferences over more than a dozen years, US speakers noted that the "disposable (after tax) income" gap between US and Canadian populations was about 8%, which is roughly the cost of running our system. I have friends in other provinces who pay lower taxes, but more for their private insurance to fill the gap. At the end of the day, it's about the same.
    The population of the country is less of an issue than geography. More than 70% of Canada's population lives within 100 miles of the US - Canada border. Northern areas are sparsely populated. It is impractical to have a hospital serving 25,000 people over an area of 2000 square miles, or more, have the same capabilities as a hospital serving a town/city of 25,000 people. Medical evacuations are part of the cost. Hospitals in Toronto, Montreal, or Vancouver, will have higher operating costs because of their physical size and land taxes, but are better able to provide more specialized care.
    The same is true in the US. Alaska, Wyoming, and Montana, for example, would face more challenges than Florida, California or Illinois.
    I worked in and around the system for 40 years. Thirty years ago, Canada's system was seen as the best in the world by most of the MDs here, because it was flexible. I'd be hard pressed to say that now.
    Either way, the US government currently spends almost twice as much per capita as Canada does, and has no universal coverage and poorer outcomes, while having critical illnesses the number one cause of bankruptcies. As I have posted previously, in the mid 80s Lee Iacocca warned that the lack of a universal system was going to kill the auto industry, because all of the competitor countries had a universal system of some sort. At the time, the highest cost in manufacturing was the health benefits of employees - over 30%. It's another reason to offshore.

  40. @Twinkie

    if you are an East Asian male, not least because you present A Problem for the narrative of a inveterately white supremacist America. You aren’t outright hated unless you break PC pieties (in which case, nothing protects you) like you are if you are a white male, but that’s about it... Asian (and Hispanic) young men who don’t fit that mold for whatever reason aren’t outright loathed like their white counterparts, but they also don’t hold the sacred cow status that blacks do...
     
    Nebulafox is correct that in the Dictatorship of the Woketariat ideology, East Asian males don't have the Original Sin that white men carry (so not "naturally" evil), but there are also certain disadvantages for the former.

    Remember the library guy? Did you catch the video at the very end where one of the black female demonstrators yells "Go back to Beijing" (that fella looked Korean, but never mind)?

    In Woke-talk, East Asian males can go very quickly from being "real Americans" (read, allies of the PoC/Woke-dom) to "fake Americans" (Booo! White-adjacent, foreign tools of oppression! You dirty alien interloper, you!) if they disavowed Social Justice pieties. Nobody says "Go back to England" to white males, who these clowns know - in their hearts and also implicitly acknowledge - belong here (I mean, whom are they going to date and marry otherwise?).

    I experienced this firsthand. I remember the very first time I went to vote - the Democratic canvasser saw me, made eye contact, and gave me a big smile while extending the voter guide sheet to me, presumably assuming that I must be a Democrat as a PoC. As soon as I said "No thanks" and went to grab the pamphlet from the Republican canvasser, he gave me an extremely evil look of loathing, as if to say, "Don't you know I am trying to help you, C***k? What's wrong with you?"

    I later saw the same look of hatred and disgust when upscale leftist canvassers had trouble convincing downscale white Republican voters - "How dumb and pathetic are you to vote for those evil rich Republicans!" - I now call this "What's the Matter with Kansas" look.

    Replies: @Tony

    “Don’t you know I am trying to help you, C***k? What’s wrong with you?”

    I thought you were Korean.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Tony

    I don’t think that canvasser could determine my ethnicity. I was merely conveying the look of extreme hostility he evinced as soon as I violated the PoC stereotype he seemingly harbored.

  41. @V. K. Ovelund
    @GreatSocialist


    Trump and his petpig Pompeo screaming Chyna, Chyna, Kung Flu was an extreme turn off for them and self-goal for Trump, ensuring that every Chinese, Taiwanese, Vietnamese, Korean and so on would hold their nose and vote Biden.

    They’ve learnt that the Dems are the least harmful to them, and they won’t forget it.
     

    What you say may be true, though your adjective “every” is plainly a gross exaggeration. I do not know. Even discounting the “every,” I am skeptical that it is that simple.

    Since I have never once witnessed a single genuine expression of pan-east-Asian ethnic solidarity, I am also skeptical that Vietnamese and Koreans can usefully be lumped with Chinese.

    However, white U.S. Gentiles—who do increasingly have ethnic solidarity because it has been forced upon them—will not indefinitely put up with national parties that disdain or ignore their interests. If any particular Chinese has a problem with that (and hardly all of them do), then that particular Chinese can continue to support the BLM Antifa pervert party of social destruction as long as he can stomach it.

    White people have interests. This is nonnegotiable.

    So is there anything white U.S. gentiles should do to placate unsettled east Asian fellow citizens? Yes. They should poaching their women.

    I suspect the last point may have as much to do with the present antipathy as perceived mockery of “Chyna” has.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @dfordoom, @Twinkie

    Since I have never once witnessed a single genuine expression of pan-east-Asian ethnic solidarity, I am also skeptical that Vietnamese and Koreans can usefully be lumped with Chinese.

    These groups have very divergent voting patterns, with Koreans and Filipinos voting for Trump at higher percentages than Chinese and Indians. And you are correct that pan-East Asian solidarity is non-existent, let alone pan-Asian one. It’s only popular with academia and constantly pushed by the media, but almost never encountered among normal people.

    White U.S. Gentiles should stop poaching east Asian women.

    Notwithstanding the internet whining by losers online, this is not a sore subject among ordinary Asians, in part because a high percentage of American-born Asian males marry white females as well (if not quite at the female rate). The disparity of WMAF couples and AMWF couples is largely a phenomenon among foreign-born Asian populations and is also more prominent among older married cohorts (e.g. GI-brides).

    A large fraction, perhaps most, of Asians see marrying whites as a part of the assimilation process and becoming American. For example, Koreans born in America of both sexes have the highest intermarriage rates with whites among Asians here and, unsurprisingly, the absolute number of those identifying themselves as ethnically Korean between the last two Censuses declined (another part of that explanation is, of course, that immigration from Koreas has cratered as it has become a highly developed economy).

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @Twinkie


    It’s only popular with academia and constantly pushed by the media, but almost never encountered among normal people.
     
    I just cannot get over the extent to which American media lie about practically everything.

    What foreigners outside the United States think about the United States does not much matter, but the image American media projects abroad of life in the United States is bizarre. It would be hard enough (impossible, really) for the media to explain genuine American culture abroad if the media were trying to tell the truth.


    Notwithstanding the internet whining by losers online, this is not a sore subject among ordinary Asians, in part because a high percentage of American-born Asian males marry white females as well (if not quite at the female rate). The disparity of WMAF couples and AMWF couples is largely a phenomenon among foreign-born Asian populations and is also more prominent among older married cohorts (e.g. GI-brides).
     
    I did not know this.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  42. @Tony
    @Twinkie

    “Don’t you know I am trying to help you, C***k? What’s wrong with you?”

    I thought you were Korean.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    I don’t think that canvasser could determine my ethnicity. I was merely conveying the look of extreme hostility he evinced as soon as I violated the PoC stereotype he seemingly harbored.

  43. @dfordoom
    @V. K. Ovelund


    White people have interests.
     
    But they don't. Various groups of white people have interests and those interests conflict. There is no common ground between those groups and they hate each other and those hatreds (particularly class, regional and ideological hatreds) are going to intensify. White people are going to be ever more divided. There is zero chance of pan-white solidarity.

    You'd have a marginally better chance of achieving regional solidarity (flyover country vs coastal elites) or class solidarity (non-elites vs elites).

    Hoping for white solidarity is just chasing daydreams.

    If the enemy is neo-liberalism the smart move is to forget the racial stuff and start looking for alliances between groups that have a common interest in opposing neo-liberalism. Start looking for sub-groups among East Asians and Hispanics who might also have a grudge against neo-liberalism. East Asians and Hispanics resemble white people in the sense that they're not monolithic blocs.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @El Dato

    You’d have a marginally better chance of achieving regional solidarity (flyover country vs coastal elites) or class solidarity (non-elites vs elites).

    Why don’t you White leftist thickheads get it into your head that race matters? Third World people understand it but snotty White people want to be beyond race. “Race is below us oooo, we want something higher”, no sane Third Worler will go for th is bullshit, they would laugh their ass out. Workers of the World Unite LOL. Tell that to a bunch of tough macho Indian workers and they would laugh so hard, you would pee in your pants. In this Universe it is impossible for say Indian workers or Iranian workers to ally with Russian workers for some idiotic class struggle. The typical Indian worker would unite with his Indian boss against Russian workers or Chinese workers. And that is the entire sane natural Third World for you. Tribal as humans were meant to be.
    I know you guys are beyond lowly things as race, but come down on earth for a bit.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @El Dato


    Why don’t you White leftist thickheads get it into your head that race matters? Third World people understand it but snotty White people want to be beyond race.
     

    Tribal as humans were meant to be.
     
    I was trying to make the point that you are just not going to persuade White people in general to see race as the source of their identity. White people don't work that way. Whether you or I think that's a good thing or a bad thing doesn't matter. It's reality.

    Tribalism for whites was always based on culture or religion. Have you read any European history? Whites gleefully butchering each other. Did the French in 1914 say, "Oh no, we're not going to kill Germans. They're white people like us?" Did the British in 1914 say, "Oh no, we're not going to kill Germans. They're not just white people like us, they even speak a closely related language and they're very very similar to us ethnically?" The British were not only happy to kill Germans, they worked themselves up into a frenzy of hate over it. Even the relatively small cultural differences between the British and the Germans was enough to motivate insane hatred.

    Tribalism has existed for whites, but not at the level of race.

    Asians work the same way as whites. There's very little ethnic difference between Koreans, Japanese and Chinese but there are enough cultural differences to make East Asian racial solidarity as impossible as White solidarity.

    Replies: @Talha

  44. @V. K. Ovelund
    @dfordoom



    White people have interests.
     
    But they don’t....
     
    In the United States, they do.

    Hoping for white solidarity is just chasing daydreams.
     
    I observe white solidarity with my own eyes. Whites deny it and Stockholm syndrome obscures it, but I observe it. Frequently.

    Until you have lived in a country in which 85 percent of the births were to white European Gentiles 60 years ago as against 45 percent today—a country your ancestors built but in which your people are now pettily derided and oppressed at every turn—you cannot understand this. Australia is not the United States.

    Haven't you got any Boer neighbors? Ask them whether they believe me.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Johann Ricke

    In the United States, they do.

    Of course whites have interests – everyone does. The salient question is, do such ethnic interests override other “sectional” interests that whites have?

    It’s a mistake to view white political behaviors through the lens of black (and to a lesser extent, Hispanic) political patterns. Being black also means that the person is also of low socio-economic class and poorly educated. With blacks and Hispanics, there are several confounding variables that increase their political monolithicism.

    Whites are an overwhelming majority of the electorate with vastly different economic and social interests. Their sense of tribalism is much more strongly motivated by such interests than by race. Seen in that light, the current Kulturkampf is a white people civil war, in which one side is much more successful in enlisting non-white auxiliaries. Affirmative action, for example, doesn’t hurt affluent GoodWhites – it hurts bright, but less affluent BadWhites from the flyover country and helps the black and brown allies of the GoodWhites (not as much as these allies think). It even helps the GoodWhites by removing the BadWhites and certain Asians from the competitor pool.

    However, I do think that white ethnic solidarity as such will increase in the future as their share of the population decreases and as other groups attain greater political power. Nonetheless, unless there is a drastic demographic change, I don’t think whites will have the kind of political uniformity blacks have. Whites would have to decline enormously to resemble being only 10-13% of the population and being almost uniformly poor and unmarried… though that is increasing the state of downscale whites, among whom the sense of race solidarity seems to be on the rise. But can you see the substantial fraction of whites who are affluent and educated having solidarity with the former?

    • Agree: iffen
    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Twinkie

    I agree with everything you've said, except that I think the sense of race solidarity among downscale whites could be complicated by an increasing hatred among downscale whites for elite whites. Downscale whites (and any other group in a similarly powerless and miserable situation) are going to end up turning their frustrations into hatred. I don't think we can say for certain against whom that hatred is going to be directed.

    , @Johann Ricke
    @Twinkie


    However, I do think that white ethnic solidarity as such will increase in the future as their share of the population decreases and as other groups attain greater political power.
     
    I think it goes both ways. White solidarity will increase as other groups make impositions on whites specifically. But group solidarity among other nationalities will also decrease with time. Apart from the Mafia, Italians gave us various high profile terror attacks and assassinations. These incidents were just manifestations of the leftist cast of much Italian immigration. But 80 years after the first big wave of Italian immigration, they began voting roughly 50-50 for Republicans and Democrats. Over time, the likelihood is that the offspring of current waves of immigrants will begin voting the same way.
    , @V. K. Ovelund
    @Twinkie


    Of course whites have interests – everyone does. The salient question is, do such ethnic interests override other “sectional” interests that whites have?
     
    Not yet, but the trend is toward the override.

    The trend in South Africa, a country that has hurtled further along the arc to white ruin, affords a vague analogy.

    But can you see the substantial fraction of whites who are affluent and educated having solidarity with the former?
     
    I am too close to the problem to give an objective reply.

    My guess is, no, you are right—assuming that the Progressive Left in the United States were able to control itself and to moderate its demands.

    I assume that U.S. nonwhites, perhaps including you, perceive the Jewish Question as mostly an internal problem among whites. That makes sense. However, the words “affluent and educated” do not capture what is really going on until the word “Jewish” is added to the analysis.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Twinkie

  45. @El Dato
    @dfordoom


    You’d have a marginally better chance of achieving regional solidarity (flyover country vs coastal elites) or class solidarity (non-elites vs elites).
     
    Why don't you White leftist thickheads get it into your head that race matters? Third World people understand it but snotty White people want to be beyond race. "Race is below us oooo, we want something higher", no sane Third Worler will go for th is bullshit, they would laugh their ass out. Workers of the World Unite LOL. Tell that to a bunch of tough macho Indian workers and they would laugh so hard, you would pee in your pants. In this Universe it is impossible for say Indian workers or Iranian workers to ally with Russian workers for some idiotic class struggle. The typical Indian worker would unite with his Indian boss against Russian workers or Chinese workers. And that is the entire sane natural Third World for you. Tribal as humans were meant to be.
    I know you guys are beyond lowly things as race, but come down on earth for a bit.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    Why don’t you White leftist thickheads get it into your head that race matters? Third World people understand it but snotty White people want to be beyond race.

    Tribal as humans were meant to be.

    I was trying to make the point that you are just not going to persuade White people in general to see race as the source of their identity. White people don’t work that way. Whether you or I think that’s a good thing or a bad thing doesn’t matter. It’s reality.

    Tribalism for whites was always based on culture or religion. Have you read any European history? Whites gleefully butchering each other. Did the French in 1914 say, “Oh no, we’re not going to kill Germans. They’re white people like us?” Did the British in 1914 say, “Oh no, we’re not going to kill Germans. They’re not just white people like us, they even speak a closely related language and they’re very very similar to us ethnically?” The British were not only happy to kill Germans, they worked themselves up into a frenzy of hate over it. Even the relatively small cultural differences between the British and the Germans was enough to motivate insane hatred.

    Tribalism has existed for whites, but not at the level of race.

    Asians work the same way as whites. There’s very little ethnic difference between Koreans, Japanese and Chinese but there are enough cultural differences to make East Asian racial solidarity as impossible as White solidarity.

    • Replies: @Talha
    @dfordoom


    The British were not only happy to kill Germans, they worked themselves up into a frenzy of hate over it.
     
    And, importantly, plenty of Europeans imported in brown and black people to help kill other Europeans:
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/16/06/4d/16064da26d357f6246c6dec9e4a4fdbe.jpg

    The caption on the above photo is “Senegalese Soldier on the Serbian Front”.

    It’s not so different from other people to be honest; the civil war in Lebanon was along sectarian divisions even among various Christians and Muslims themselves.

    Peace.
  46. @Twinkie
    @V. K. Ovelund


    In the United States, they do.
     
    Of course whites have interests - everyone does. The salient question is, do such ethnic interests override other “sectional” interests that whites have?

    It’s a mistake to view white political behaviors through the lens of black (and to a lesser extent, Hispanic) political patterns. Being black also means that the person is also of low socio-economic class and poorly educated. With blacks and Hispanics, there are several confounding variables that increase their political monolithicism.

    Whites are an overwhelming majority of the electorate with vastly different economic and social interests. Their sense of tribalism is much more strongly motivated by such interests than by race. Seen in that light, the current Kulturkampf is a white people civil war, in which one side is much more successful in enlisting non-white auxiliaries. Affirmative action, for example, doesn’t hurt affluent GoodWhites - it hurts bright, but less affluent BadWhites from the flyover country and helps the black and brown allies of the GoodWhites (not as much as these allies think). It even helps the GoodWhites by removing the BadWhites and certain Asians from the competitor pool.

    However, I do think that white ethnic solidarity as such will increase in the future as their share of the population decreases and as other groups attain greater political power. Nonetheless, unless there is a drastic demographic change, I don’t think whites will have the kind of political uniformity blacks have. Whites would have to decline enormously to resemble being only 10-13% of the population and being almost uniformly poor and unmarried... though that is increasing the state of downscale whites, among whom the sense of race solidarity seems to be on the rise. But can you see the substantial fraction of whites who are affluent and educated having solidarity with the former?

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Johann Ricke, @V. K. Ovelund

    I agree with everything you’ve said, except that I think the sense of race solidarity among downscale whites could be complicated by an increasing hatred among downscale whites for elite whites. Downscale whites (and any other group in a similarly powerless and miserable situation) are going to end up turning their frustrations into hatred. I don’t think we can say for certain against whom that hatred is going to be directed.

  47. @V. K. Ovelund
    @dfordoom



    White people have interests.
     
    But they don’t....
     
    In the United States, they do.

    Hoping for white solidarity is just chasing daydreams.
     
    I observe white solidarity with my own eyes. Whites deny it and Stockholm syndrome obscures it, but I observe it. Frequently.

    Until you have lived in a country in which 85 percent of the births were to white European Gentiles 60 years ago as against 45 percent today—a country your ancestors built but in which your people are now pettily derided and oppressed at every turn—you cannot understand this. Australia is not the United States.

    Haven't you got any Boer neighbors? Ask them whether they believe me.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Johann Ricke

    Until you have lived in a country in which 85 percent of the births were to white European Gentiles 60 years ago as against 45 percent today—a country your ancestors built but in which your people are now pettily derided and oppressed at every turn—you cannot understand this. Australia is not the United States.

    Australia’s population is probably 80% white. Until the 1970’s, there was an explicitly White Australia policy.

    dfordoom sounds like he might be Chinese, given his affinity for China, combined with an explicit disdain for the US. I’ve known a few dozen Australians. Can’t think of a single one that was as anti-American as dfordoom is. On average, Australians are to the left of the US, but few Australians would have any problem fitting in stateside – they’d probably blend in better than the average Brit (with the exception of dfordoom).

    • Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Johann Ricke


    dfordoom sounds like he might be Chinese, given his affinity for China, combined with an explicit disdain for the US. I’ve known a few dozen Australians. Can’t think of a single one that was as anti-American as dfordoom is.
     
    Sorry to disappoint you but I'm not Chinese.

    I'm old school Left and there was a strong tradition of anti-US feeling in the Australian Old Left. There was the Vietnam War, the dismissal of the Whitlam Government (which some blamed on the CIA), the US military occupation of Australia and the swamping of our culture by American culture etc.

    I'm not anti-American. I like Americans just fine. I just see no benefits and a lot of costs to our continuing to be an American satellite.

    As for explicit disdain for the US, I don't think I have any more disdain for the US as a political entity than the average American dissident rightist has. I find it weird that so many Americans hate their own government so much but then get all butt-hurt when a non-American doesn't bow down and worship the USA.

    Replies: @Talha, @anon, @Twinkie

  48. @Twinkie
    @V. K. Ovelund


    In the United States, they do.
     
    Of course whites have interests - everyone does. The salient question is, do such ethnic interests override other “sectional” interests that whites have?

    It’s a mistake to view white political behaviors through the lens of black (and to a lesser extent, Hispanic) political patterns. Being black also means that the person is also of low socio-economic class and poorly educated. With blacks and Hispanics, there are several confounding variables that increase their political monolithicism.

    Whites are an overwhelming majority of the electorate with vastly different economic and social interests. Their sense of tribalism is much more strongly motivated by such interests than by race. Seen in that light, the current Kulturkampf is a white people civil war, in which one side is much more successful in enlisting non-white auxiliaries. Affirmative action, for example, doesn’t hurt affluent GoodWhites - it hurts bright, but less affluent BadWhites from the flyover country and helps the black and brown allies of the GoodWhites (not as much as these allies think). It even helps the GoodWhites by removing the BadWhites and certain Asians from the competitor pool.

    However, I do think that white ethnic solidarity as such will increase in the future as their share of the population decreases and as other groups attain greater political power. Nonetheless, unless there is a drastic demographic change, I don’t think whites will have the kind of political uniformity blacks have. Whites would have to decline enormously to resemble being only 10-13% of the population and being almost uniformly poor and unmarried... though that is increasing the state of downscale whites, among whom the sense of race solidarity seems to be on the rise. But can you see the substantial fraction of whites who are affluent and educated having solidarity with the former?

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Johann Ricke, @V. K. Ovelund

    However, I do think that white ethnic solidarity as such will increase in the future as their share of the population decreases and as other groups attain greater political power.

    I think it goes both ways. White solidarity will increase as other groups make impositions on whites specifically. But group solidarity among other nationalities will also decrease with time. Apart from the Mafia, Italians gave us various high profile terror attacks and assassinations. These incidents were just manifestations of the leftist cast of much Italian immigration. But 80 years after the first big wave of Italian immigration, they began voting roughly 50-50 for Republicans and Democrats. Over time, the likelihood is that the offspring of current waves of immigrants will begin voting the same way.

    • Agree: Twinkie
  49. @dfordoom
    @El Dato


    Why don’t you White leftist thickheads get it into your head that race matters? Third World people understand it but snotty White people want to be beyond race.
     

    Tribal as humans were meant to be.
     
    I was trying to make the point that you are just not going to persuade White people in general to see race as the source of their identity. White people don't work that way. Whether you or I think that's a good thing or a bad thing doesn't matter. It's reality.

    Tribalism for whites was always based on culture or religion. Have you read any European history? Whites gleefully butchering each other. Did the French in 1914 say, "Oh no, we're not going to kill Germans. They're white people like us?" Did the British in 1914 say, "Oh no, we're not going to kill Germans. They're not just white people like us, they even speak a closely related language and they're very very similar to us ethnically?" The British were not only happy to kill Germans, they worked themselves up into a frenzy of hate over it. Even the relatively small cultural differences between the British and the Germans was enough to motivate insane hatred.

    Tribalism has existed for whites, but not at the level of race.

    Asians work the same way as whites. There's very little ethnic difference between Koreans, Japanese and Chinese but there are enough cultural differences to make East Asian racial solidarity as impossible as White solidarity.

    Replies: @Talha

    The British were not only happy to kill Germans, they worked themselves up into a frenzy of hate over it.

    And, importantly, plenty of Europeans imported in brown and black people to help kill other Europeans:

    The caption on the above photo is “Senegalese Soldier on the Serbian Front”.

    It’s not so different from other people to be honest; the civil war in Lebanon was along sectarian divisions even among various Christians and Muslims themselves.

    Peace.

  50. @Twinkie
    @V. K. Ovelund


    Since I have never once witnessed a single genuine expression of pan-east-Asian ethnic solidarity, I am also skeptical that Vietnamese and Koreans can usefully be lumped with Chinese.
     
    These groups have very divergent voting patterns, with Koreans and Filipinos voting for Trump at higher percentages than Chinese and Indians. And you are correct that pan-East Asian solidarity is non-existent, let alone pan-Asian one. It’s only popular with academia and constantly pushed by the media, but almost never encountered among normal people.

    White U.S. Gentiles should stop poaching east Asian women.
     
    Notwithstanding the internet whining by losers online, this is not a sore subject among ordinary Asians, in part because a high percentage of American-born Asian males marry white females as well (if not quite at the female rate). The disparity of WMAF couples and AMWF couples is largely a phenomenon among foreign-born Asian populations and is also more prominent among older married cohorts (e.g. GI-brides).

    A large fraction, perhaps most, of Asians see marrying whites as a part of the assimilation process and becoming American. For example, Koreans born in America of both sexes have the highest intermarriage rates with whites among Asians here and, unsurprisingly, the absolute number of those identifying themselves as ethnically Korean between the last two Censuses declined (another part of that explanation is, of course, that immigration from Koreas has cratered as it has become a highly developed economy).

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

    It’s only popular with academia and constantly pushed by the media, but almost never encountered among normal people.

    I just cannot get over the extent to which American media lie about practically everything.

    What foreigners outside the United States think about the United States does not much matter, but the image American media projects abroad of life in the United States is bizarre. It would be hard enough (impossible, really) for the media to explain genuine American culture abroad if the media were trying to tell the truth.

    Notwithstanding the internet whining by losers online, this is not a sore subject among ordinary Asians, in part because a high percentage of American-born Asian males marry white females as well (if not quite at the female rate). The disparity of WMAF couples and AMWF couples is largely a phenomenon among foreign-born Asian populations and is also more prominent among older married cohorts (e.g. GI-brides).

    I did not know this.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @V. K. Ovelund


    What foreigners outside the United States think about the United States does not much matter, but the image American media projects abroad of life in the United States is bizarre. It would be hard enough (impossible, really) for the media to explain genuine American culture abroad if the media were trying to tell the truth.
     
    Funny (to me) story. I was in Indonesia some years ago, and was at this small village. After a while I noted that a young man was following me around. At some point I decided enough was enough and gestured him to come over. He seemingly gathered his courage and spoke to me in halting English.

    Me: Hello, you there. Have you been following me?
    Him: Yes, yes, yes. Follow you.
    Me: Might I ask why?
    Him: You no Indonesia? Where you?
    Me: No, I am not Indonesian. I am an American.
    Him: Where America?
    Me: [Gave him the Midwestern state where I lived at the time, he shakes his head, so...] Not too far from Chicago, you know Chicago?
    Him: Yes, yes, yes! [Really excited.] Chicago Bulls! Michael Jordan! Number one! [Smiles very happily like he just met someone on the team.]
    Me: Yes, that Chicago.
    Him: But you no look Michael Jordan. You America?
    Me: No, I do not look like Michael Jordan. And, yes, I am an American.
    Him: You walk America [Do we walk differently? Like we own everywhere we go, maybe? Some strutting walk?], you big America [I'm 6'2" and was pretty muscular back then], you talk America, but your face... It... AH-SHI-AHN!
    Me: Yes, I am an American of Asian background. I came from Asia, immigrated to America, and became an American.
    Him: [Gives me a puzzled look.] No, no. [Shakes his head and gives me a look of disbelief.] Face Ah-shi-ahn.

    I just cannot get over the extent to which American media lie about practically everything.
     
    So at the next village, one of my local contacts asked whether I could go about on my own. I was okay with that and asked him why. He said, "This village have satellite. I watch Mike Tyson fight. You okay here? Not miss Mike Tyson fight."

    So after the while, the sense I got from the these rural Indonesians was that America was about 50% white people and 50% blacks who played sports, sang songs, and were entertainers. Because that's what Hollywood and the American media in general portrayed.

    And that was years ago. Imagine now - they probably think America is 25% (racist) white people and 75% blacks who are presidents, doctors, scientists, military leaders, and so on.

    Replies: @nebulafox

  51. @Twinkie
    @V. K. Ovelund


    In the United States, they do.
     
    Of course whites have interests - everyone does. The salient question is, do such ethnic interests override other “sectional” interests that whites have?

    It’s a mistake to view white political behaviors through the lens of black (and to a lesser extent, Hispanic) political patterns. Being black also means that the person is also of low socio-economic class and poorly educated. With blacks and Hispanics, there are several confounding variables that increase their political monolithicism.

    Whites are an overwhelming majority of the electorate with vastly different economic and social interests. Their sense of tribalism is much more strongly motivated by such interests than by race. Seen in that light, the current Kulturkampf is a white people civil war, in which one side is much more successful in enlisting non-white auxiliaries. Affirmative action, for example, doesn’t hurt affluent GoodWhites - it hurts bright, but less affluent BadWhites from the flyover country and helps the black and brown allies of the GoodWhites (not as much as these allies think). It even helps the GoodWhites by removing the BadWhites and certain Asians from the competitor pool.

    However, I do think that white ethnic solidarity as such will increase in the future as their share of the population decreases and as other groups attain greater political power. Nonetheless, unless there is a drastic demographic change, I don’t think whites will have the kind of political uniformity blacks have. Whites would have to decline enormously to resemble being only 10-13% of the population and being almost uniformly poor and unmarried... though that is increasing the state of downscale whites, among whom the sense of race solidarity seems to be on the rise. But can you see the substantial fraction of whites who are affluent and educated having solidarity with the former?

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Johann Ricke, @V. K. Ovelund

    Of course whites have interests – everyone does. The salient question is, do such ethnic interests override other “sectional” interests that whites have?

    Not yet, but the trend is toward the override.

    The trend in South Africa, a country that has hurtled further along the arc to white ruin, affords a vague analogy.

    But can you see the substantial fraction of whites who are affluent and educated having solidarity with the former?

    I am too close to the problem to give an objective reply.

    My guess is, no, you are right—assuming that the Progressive Left in the United States were able to control itself and to moderate its demands.

    I assume that U.S. nonwhites, perhaps including you, perceive the Jewish Question as mostly an internal problem among whites. That makes sense. However, the words “affluent and educated” do not capture what is really going on until the word “Jewish” is added to the analysis.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @V. K. Ovelund

    >The trend in South Africa, a country that has hurtled further along the arc to white ruin, affords a vague analogy.

    I don't think the analogy checks out. South African whites have always been a minority: probably 20% at most in that nation's history. That's one of the things the fueled the dynamics of apartheid.

    (This goes back in history. One of the reason Portuguese plantation owners in Northern Brazil tended to be notably sadistic was the demographics: the slaves outnumbered them 100:1, so they thought the only way to keep control was to keep the Africans in a constant state of terror. Adding fuel to the fire is that many of the Portuguese colonists were convicted hardcore felons-rapists, murderers, arsonists, violent robbers, a rather different league of naughtiness from the petty debtors and drunks and prostitutes the British deported.)

    America, by contrast, used to be an overwhelmingly white nation, with a black minority at around 13% of the populace. Now it is on track to be a white plurality nation, with that same black minority percentage, and sharp upticks in the Asian and especially Hispanic contingents. You'd think that the Usual Suspects would realize that simultaneously demonizing downclass whites while reminding them they are white and crowing about their demographic "demise" is a pretty dumb move if you don't want them to become a cohesive racial block in politics, but triumphalism does a lot to warp your mind.

    That all being said, I think the GOP's optimal future would about uniting people who aren't going to benefit from a woke neoliberal petty authoritarian dystopia. One surprising political divide that is often ignored is gender among unmarried singles: the culture of the modern Left is pretty hostile to young men who do not fit the woke striver model, and many of them-by no means all white-are noticing that.

    Replies: @Talha, @V. K. Ovelund

    , @Twinkie
    @V. K. Ovelund


    The trend in South Africa, a country that has hurtled further along the arc to white ruin, affords a vague analogy.
     
    I think another commenter (Nebulafox) already addressed this point well - the U.S. and South Africa have vastly different history and demography and so do American whites and South African whites.

    One thing I should note - purely as a side topic - is that there is a tendency among certain American racialist rightists to valorize "the Boers." I get the sense that they don't actually know white South Africans in real life.

    I have close Afrikaner emigre friends, and I was pretty aghast that, after Naturalization, most of them opted to vote for Hillary and the Democrats. Why, I screamed - my exact words were, "You fled South Africa because of the ANC - why would you vote for the American ANC?" I never got a satisfactory answer from them - something about "the environment" or "science" or something vague like that. Now, they are emigres, after all, so there is probably some sort of a selection effect going on, but I was pretty surprised to learn that white South Africans - English- or Afrikaans-speaking - don't have some racial warrior tendencies that certain American rightists ascribe to them, but were in general more "liberal" than imagined.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @anon, @Rattus Norwegius, @nebulafox

  52. White people are discovering their shared interest to the chagrin of the Tribe.

    Anti-white comments are almost all Tribe here. Knowhatimsayin’?

    There are some CIA shills here too. Like Corvinus. He must be agency.

    White people are forced to operate against their interests by media and corporations.

    That doesn’t mean that cooperation will not soon materialize.

    Just remove the Tribe and the monetary system and you’ll see German levels of cooperation.

    Weimar 2.0 is about to burn down soon.

    The commies might be the ones doing the burning.

    The strategy worth pursuing is getting people to see the Tribe as the Rich.

    Then both ends will burn down the core of the problem.

  53. @V. K. Ovelund
    @Twinkie


    Of course whites have interests – everyone does. The salient question is, do such ethnic interests override other “sectional” interests that whites have?
     
    Not yet, but the trend is toward the override.

    The trend in South Africa, a country that has hurtled further along the arc to white ruin, affords a vague analogy.

    But can you see the substantial fraction of whites who are affluent and educated having solidarity with the former?
     
    I am too close to the problem to give an objective reply.

    My guess is, no, you are right—assuming that the Progressive Left in the United States were able to control itself and to moderate its demands.

    I assume that U.S. nonwhites, perhaps including you, perceive the Jewish Question as mostly an internal problem among whites. That makes sense. However, the words “affluent and educated” do not capture what is really going on until the word “Jewish” is added to the analysis.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Twinkie

    >The trend in South Africa, a country that has hurtled further along the arc to white ruin, affords a vague analogy.

    I don’t think the analogy checks out. South African whites have always been a minority: probably 20% at most in that nation’s history. That’s one of the things the fueled the dynamics of apartheid.

    (This goes back in history. One of the reason Portuguese plantation owners in Northern Brazil tended to be notably sadistic was the demographics: the slaves outnumbered them 100:1, so they thought the only way to keep control was to keep the Africans in a constant state of terror. Adding fuel to the fire is that many of the Portuguese colonists were convicted hardcore felons-rapists, murderers, arsonists, violent robbers, a rather different league of naughtiness from the petty debtors and drunks and prostitutes the British deported.)

    America, by contrast, used to be an overwhelmingly white nation, with a black minority at around 13% of the populace. Now it is on track to be a white plurality nation, with that same black minority percentage, and sharp upticks in the Asian and especially Hispanic contingents. You’d think that the Usual Suspects would realize that simultaneously demonizing downclass whites while reminding them they are white and crowing about their demographic “demise” is a pretty dumb move if you don’t want them to become a cohesive racial block in politics, but triumphalism does a lot to warp your mind.

    That all being said, I think the GOP’s optimal future would about uniting people who aren’t going to benefit from a woke neoliberal petty authoritarian dystopia. One surprising political divide that is often ignored is gender among unmarried singles: the culture of the modern Left is pretty hostile to young men who do not fit the woke striver model, and many of them-by no means all white-are noticing that.

    • Agree: Twinkie
    • Replies: @Talha
    @nebulafox

    Lots of good points here, thanks! I think the more sound comparison to South Africa in the American model would be if the Native Americans had retained an overwhelming demographic majority over the many intervening years before the civil rights movements of the 1960s and then they started reasserting themselves and taking control of the ship of state via numbers through politics.

    Peace.

    , @V. K. Ovelund
    @nebulafox


    I think the GOP’s optimal future would about uniting people who aren’t going to benefit from a woke neoliberal petty authoritarian dystopia.
     
    Quite right.

    I do not care about the GOP (because the GOP hardly cares about me) and I strongly oppose the Great Replacement, but I have never credited the political suggestion that demographic change would doom the GOP.

    Regrettably, the Democratic Party as presently constituted is repulsive. If it weren't, I would have become a Democrat a long time ago. Yet it isn't only whites that that Party repels.

  54. I stand by my original position: the current executive the election and one hopes he prevails where it counts.

    That said,

    ” . . . being carried on them rather than whimpering under their desks that the Ds cheated but the Rs had to go along for the “good of our democracy” rather than protecting the viability of the republic.”

    If not the republic , then you had better come up with a better reason to fight that the honor of being brought home on one’s shield.

  55. @nebulafox
    @V. K. Ovelund

    >The trend in South Africa, a country that has hurtled further along the arc to white ruin, affords a vague analogy.

    I don't think the analogy checks out. South African whites have always been a minority: probably 20% at most in that nation's history. That's one of the things the fueled the dynamics of apartheid.

    (This goes back in history. One of the reason Portuguese plantation owners in Northern Brazil tended to be notably sadistic was the demographics: the slaves outnumbered them 100:1, so they thought the only way to keep control was to keep the Africans in a constant state of terror. Adding fuel to the fire is that many of the Portuguese colonists were convicted hardcore felons-rapists, murderers, arsonists, violent robbers, a rather different league of naughtiness from the petty debtors and drunks and prostitutes the British deported.)

    America, by contrast, used to be an overwhelmingly white nation, with a black minority at around 13% of the populace. Now it is on track to be a white plurality nation, with that same black minority percentage, and sharp upticks in the Asian and especially Hispanic contingents. You'd think that the Usual Suspects would realize that simultaneously demonizing downclass whites while reminding them they are white and crowing about their demographic "demise" is a pretty dumb move if you don't want them to become a cohesive racial block in politics, but triumphalism does a lot to warp your mind.

    That all being said, I think the GOP's optimal future would about uniting people who aren't going to benefit from a woke neoliberal petty authoritarian dystopia. One surprising political divide that is often ignored is gender among unmarried singles: the culture of the modern Left is pretty hostile to young men who do not fit the woke striver model, and many of them-by no means all white-are noticing that.

    Replies: @Talha, @V. K. Ovelund

    Lots of good points here, thanks! I think the more sound comparison to South Africa in the American model would be if the Native Americans had retained an overwhelming demographic majority over the many intervening years before the civil rights movements of the 1960s and then they started reasserting themselves and taking control of the ship of state via numbers through politics.

    Peace.

  56. @Johann Ricke
    @V. K. Ovelund


    Until you have lived in a country in which 85 percent of the births were to white European Gentiles 60 years ago as against 45 percent today—a country your ancestors built but in which your people are now pettily derided and oppressed at every turn—you cannot understand this. Australia is not the United States.
     
    Australia's population is probably 80% white. Until the 1970's, there was an explicitly White Australia policy.

    dfordoom sounds like he might be Chinese, given his affinity for China, combined with an explicit disdain for the US. I've known a few dozen Australians. Can't think of a single one that was as anti-American as dfordoom is. On average, Australians are to the left of the US, but few Australians would have any problem fitting in stateside - they'd probably blend in better than the average Brit (with the exception of dfordoom).

    Replies: @dfordoom

    dfordoom sounds like he might be Chinese, given his affinity for China, combined with an explicit disdain for the US. I’ve known a few dozen Australians. Can’t think of a single one that was as anti-American as dfordoom is.

    Sorry to disappoint you but I’m not Chinese.

    I’m old school Left and there was a strong tradition of anti-US feeling in the Australian Old Left. There was the Vietnam War, the dismissal of the Whitlam Government (which some blamed on the CIA), the US military occupation of Australia and the swamping of our culture by American culture etc.

    I’m not anti-American. I like Americans just fine. I just see no benefits and a lot of costs to our continuing to be an American satellite.

    As for explicit disdain for the US, I don’t think I have any more disdain for the US as a political entity than the average American dissident rightist has. I find it weird that so many Americans hate their own government so much but then get all butt-hurt when a non-American doesn’t bow down and worship the USA.

    • Replies: @Talha
    @dfordoom


    I find it weird that so many Americans hate their own government so much but then get all butt-hurt when a non-American doesn’t bow down and worship the USA.
     
    Who says whites can’t be tribal, eh?

    Peace.
    , @anon
    @dfordoom

    I’m old

    That's been obvious for a while, Boomer!

    , @Twinkie
    @dfordoom


    I’m not anti-American. I like Americans just fine. I just see no benefits and a lot of costs to our continuing to be an American satellite.

    As for explicit disdain for the US, I don’t think I have any more disdain for the US as a political entity than the average American dissident rightist has. I find it weird that so many Americans hate their own government so much but then get all butt-hurt when a non-American doesn’t bow down and worship the USA.
     
    "The average American dissident rightist" - if you go by Unz commenters - is quite fringe. Rightists in America are a minority (as rightists are in almost all developed countries). Unz-reading rightists are a minority of that minority. And Unz-commenters are a minority of that minority of a minority. You are talking a very small number of people.

    Whatever the case may be with that, I don't expect you to "bow down and worship" my country (after all, it's not your country, which you tout as "the best in the world"), but I do find it puzzling that you frequent an American dissident rightist blog and relentlessly and reflexively badmouth America, American rightists, and Christianity. What brings you here?

    And given your love of China, shouldn't you be frequenting some Chinese dissident blog? Oh, wait, never mind. They don't have dissident blogs. Anyway, good luck with the Chinese in the future.

    Replies: @dfordoom

  57. @dfordoom
    @Johann Ricke


    dfordoom sounds like he might be Chinese, given his affinity for China, combined with an explicit disdain for the US. I’ve known a few dozen Australians. Can’t think of a single one that was as anti-American as dfordoom is.
     
    Sorry to disappoint you but I'm not Chinese.

    I'm old school Left and there was a strong tradition of anti-US feeling in the Australian Old Left. There was the Vietnam War, the dismissal of the Whitlam Government (which some blamed on the CIA), the US military occupation of Australia and the swamping of our culture by American culture etc.

    I'm not anti-American. I like Americans just fine. I just see no benefits and a lot of costs to our continuing to be an American satellite.

    As for explicit disdain for the US, I don't think I have any more disdain for the US as a political entity than the average American dissident rightist has. I find it weird that so many Americans hate their own government so much but then get all butt-hurt when a non-American doesn't bow down and worship the USA.

    Replies: @Talha, @anon, @Twinkie

    I find it weird that so many Americans hate their own government so much but then get all butt-hurt when a non-American doesn’t bow down and worship the USA.

    Who says whites can’t be tribal, eh?

    Peace.

    • LOL: iffen
  58. @dfordoom
    @Johann Ricke


    dfordoom sounds like he might be Chinese, given his affinity for China, combined with an explicit disdain for the US. I’ve known a few dozen Australians. Can’t think of a single one that was as anti-American as dfordoom is.
     
    Sorry to disappoint you but I'm not Chinese.

    I'm old school Left and there was a strong tradition of anti-US feeling in the Australian Old Left. There was the Vietnam War, the dismissal of the Whitlam Government (which some blamed on the CIA), the US military occupation of Australia and the swamping of our culture by American culture etc.

    I'm not anti-American. I like Americans just fine. I just see no benefits and a lot of costs to our continuing to be an American satellite.

    As for explicit disdain for the US, I don't think I have any more disdain for the US as a political entity than the average American dissident rightist has. I find it weird that so many Americans hate their own government so much but then get all butt-hurt when a non-American doesn't bow down and worship the USA.

    Replies: @Talha, @anon, @Twinkie

    I’m old

    That’s been obvious for a while, Boomer!

  59. @V. K. Ovelund
    @Twinkie


    It’s only popular with academia and constantly pushed by the media, but almost never encountered among normal people.
     
    I just cannot get over the extent to which American media lie about practically everything.

    What foreigners outside the United States think about the United States does not much matter, but the image American media projects abroad of life in the United States is bizarre. It would be hard enough (impossible, really) for the media to explain genuine American culture abroad if the media were trying to tell the truth.


    Notwithstanding the internet whining by losers online, this is not a sore subject among ordinary Asians, in part because a high percentage of American-born Asian males marry white females as well (if not quite at the female rate). The disparity of WMAF couples and AMWF couples is largely a phenomenon among foreign-born Asian populations and is also more prominent among older married cohorts (e.g. GI-brides).
     
    I did not know this.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    What foreigners outside the United States think about the United States does not much matter, but the image American media projects abroad of life in the United States is bizarre. It would be hard enough (impossible, really) for the media to explain genuine American culture abroad if the media were trying to tell the truth.

    Funny (to me) story. I was in Indonesia some years ago, and was at this small village. After a while I noted that a young man was following me around. At some point I decided enough was enough and gestured him to come over. He seemingly gathered his courage and spoke to me in halting English.

    Me: Hello, you there. Have you been following me?
    Him: Yes, yes, yes. Follow you.
    Me: Might I ask why?
    Him: You no Indonesia? Where you?
    Me: No, I am not Indonesian. I am an American.
    Him: Where America?
    Me: [Gave him the Midwestern state where I lived at the time, he shakes his head, so…] Not too far from Chicago, you know Chicago?
    Him: Yes, yes, yes! [Really excited.] Chicago Bulls! Michael Jordan! Number one! [Smiles very happily like he just met someone on the team.]
    Me: Yes, that Chicago.
    Him: But you no look Michael Jordan. You America?
    Me: No, I do not look like Michael Jordan. And, yes, I am an American.
    Him: You walk America [Do we walk differently? Like we own everywhere we go, maybe? Some strutting walk?], you big America [I’m 6’2″ and was pretty muscular back then], you talk America, but your face… It… AH-SHI-AHN!
    Me: Yes, I am an American of Asian background. I came from Asia, immigrated to America, and became an American.
    Him: [Gives me a puzzled look.] No, no. [Shakes his head and gives me a look of disbelief.] Face Ah-shi-ahn.

    I just cannot get over the extent to which American media lie about practically everything.

    So at the next village, one of my local contacts asked whether I could go about on my own. I was okay with that and asked him why. He said, “This village have satellite. I watch Mike Tyson fight. You okay here? Not miss Mike Tyson fight.”

    So after the while, the sense I got from the these rural Indonesians was that America was about 50% white people and 50% blacks who played sports, sang songs, and were entertainers. Because that’s what Hollywood and the American media in general portrayed.

    And that was years ago. Imagine now – they probably think America is 25% (racist) white people and 75% blacks who are presidents, doctors, scientists, military leaders, and so on.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • LOL: iffen
    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Twinkie

    >Imagine now – they probably think America is 25% (racist) white people and 75% blacks who are presidents, doctors, scientists, military leaders, and so on.

    As of the late 2010s, they still think most Americans are white (and in most of Indonesia, that still means exotic), black Americans are rap stars, athletes, or criminals, and that Americans from a Hispanic or Asian background are rarities. Though not all whites are instantly taken for Americans. I was taken for a European, for whatever reason. Dunno if that was a shot to the balls as to how scrawny I was or an acknowledgement of non-obesity. I'll take it as the former to motivate me.

    Also extends to other countries: non-Chinese Singaporeans get the same confusion. Since Singapore understandably means $$$ hey boleh uang rokok, it fits in well with the "Jew" stereotypes bumi Indonesians tend to have about their own ethnic Chinese.

    One thing that has changed over the past 15 years or so is that the Internet has rapidly proliferated in the developing world. That's a mixed bag for the Narrative.

  60. @dfordoom
    @Johann Ricke


    dfordoom sounds like he might be Chinese, given his affinity for China, combined with an explicit disdain for the US. I’ve known a few dozen Australians. Can’t think of a single one that was as anti-American as dfordoom is.
     
    Sorry to disappoint you but I'm not Chinese.

    I'm old school Left and there was a strong tradition of anti-US feeling in the Australian Old Left. There was the Vietnam War, the dismissal of the Whitlam Government (which some blamed on the CIA), the US military occupation of Australia and the swamping of our culture by American culture etc.

    I'm not anti-American. I like Americans just fine. I just see no benefits and a lot of costs to our continuing to be an American satellite.

    As for explicit disdain for the US, I don't think I have any more disdain for the US as a political entity than the average American dissident rightist has. I find it weird that so many Americans hate their own government so much but then get all butt-hurt when a non-American doesn't bow down and worship the USA.

    Replies: @Talha, @anon, @Twinkie

    I’m not anti-American. I like Americans just fine. I just see no benefits and a lot of costs to our continuing to be an American satellite.

    As for explicit disdain for the US, I don’t think I have any more disdain for the US as a political entity than the average American dissident rightist has. I find it weird that so many Americans hate their own government so much but then get all butt-hurt when a non-American doesn’t bow down and worship the USA.

    “The average American dissident rightist” – if you go by Unz commenters – is quite fringe. Rightists in America are a minority (as rightists are in almost all developed countries). Unz-reading rightists are a minority of that minority. And Unz-commenters are a minority of that minority of a minority. You are talking a very small number of people.

    Whatever the case may be with that, I don’t expect you to “bow down and worship” my country (after all, it’s not your country, which you tout as “the best in the world”), but I do find it puzzling that you frequent an American dissident rightist blog and relentlessly and reflexively badmouth America, American rightists, and Christianity. What brings you here?

    And given your love of China, shouldn’t you be frequenting some Chinese dissident blog? Oh, wait, never mind. They don’t have dissident blogs. Anyway, good luck with the Chinese in the future.

    • Agree: iffen
    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Twinkie


    but I do find it puzzling that you frequent an American dissident rightist blog and relentlessly and reflexively badmouth America, American rightists, and Christianity. What brings you here?
     
    Unz Review is a dissident site, not an explicitly dissident right site. And I'm a dissident. On some of the blogs here (Sailer's, AE's, Anatoly Karlin's) there are extremely interesting discussions and some very astute commenters.

    I agree with the dissident right on some things. Many of their criticisms of the current state of western society and many of their criticisms of the current political order are spot on. They're like libertarians - often very astute at diagnosing problems. Like libertarians they're not so good at coming up with solutions, but maybe there aren't any good solutions.

    I think the dissident right is guilty of faulty strategic thinking. Too much emphasis on race hatred, which simply amounts to agreeing to fight the battles your enemy wants you to fight on ground of his choosing. Too much conspiracy theory thinking. Too much obsession with Jews. Too much magical thinking (believing that whites are going to adopt racial solidarity, believing in "peaceful separation").

    The current political order needs to be opposed, but I don't think the dissident right is doing so effectively.

    I don't hate America, I just hate the political entity known as the US.

    I don't see Christianity as having a great deal of relevance to the modern world. I don't see it as a force that is going to help us get out of our current mess.

    As for American rightists, which ones are you referring to? I've given my views on the dissident right. The mainstream American Right doesn't appeal to me. The mainstream Australian Right doesn't appeal to me either.
  61. @V. K. Ovelund
    @Twinkie


    Of course whites have interests – everyone does. The salient question is, do such ethnic interests override other “sectional” interests that whites have?
     
    Not yet, but the trend is toward the override.

    The trend in South Africa, a country that has hurtled further along the arc to white ruin, affords a vague analogy.

    But can you see the substantial fraction of whites who are affluent and educated having solidarity with the former?
     
    I am too close to the problem to give an objective reply.

    My guess is, no, you are right—assuming that the Progressive Left in the United States were able to control itself and to moderate its demands.

    I assume that U.S. nonwhites, perhaps including you, perceive the Jewish Question as mostly an internal problem among whites. That makes sense. However, the words “affluent and educated” do not capture what is really going on until the word “Jewish” is added to the analysis.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Twinkie

    The trend in South Africa, a country that has hurtled further along the arc to white ruin, affords a vague analogy.

    I think another commenter (Nebulafox) already addressed this point well – the U.S. and South Africa have vastly different history and demography and so do American whites and South African whites.

    One thing I should note – purely as a side topic – is that there is a tendency among certain American racialist rightists to valorize “the Boers.” I get the sense that they don’t actually know white South Africans in real life.

    I have close Afrikaner emigre friends, and I was pretty aghast that, after Naturalization, most of them opted to vote for Hillary and the Democrats. Why, I screamed – my exact words were, “You fled South Africa because of the ANC – why would you vote for the American ANC?” I never got a satisfactory answer from them – something about “the environment” or “science” or something vague like that. Now, they are emigres, after all, so there is probably some sort of a selection effect going on, but I was pretty surprised to learn that white South Africans – English- or Afrikaans-speaking – don’t have some racial warrior tendencies that certain American rightists ascribe to them, but were in general more “liberal” than imagined.

    • Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Twinkie


    I have close Afrikaner emigre friends, and I was pretty aghast that, after Naturalization, most of them opted to vote for Hillary and the Democrats.
     
    I've only known one white South African well. He was a screaming liberal. He was a zealous supporter of every variety of liberal nutjobbery you can name. He also lived off the Australian taxpayer.

    My assumption is that white South Africans are like white people elsewhere. Addicted to virtue-signalling.
    , @anon
    @Twinkie

    I was pretty surprised to learn that white South Africans – English- or Afrikaans-speaking – don’t have some racial warrior tendencies that certain American rightists ascribe to them,

    It's been over a century since the first concentration camps were opened by Kitchener's troops to imprison Boer women and children; the deaths from disease were not at all trivial in those camps, by the way. Perhaps that changed the genes? Or perhaps the utter defeat of the Orange Free State was complete, and a few generations of propaganda had its effects?

    Whatever it may be, most South Africans whether Dutch, Anglo-Dutch, Anglo or Hugenot descent aren't the same people their great grandfathers were, and this is true in just about every other country on the globe.

    A book some may find interesting about the Boer war: "Boer Commando" by Denis Rhys. He was present at a couple of significant fights such as Ladysmith. He also survived the entire war & postwar, and then served with the Brits in France during the unpleasantness of 1914.

    , @Rattus Norwegius
    @Twinkie

    The White South African culture, whether Afrikaans or English is going to die out by the second generation. Their sense of identity is a far cry from the Jews.

    Did those South African emigrants live in liberal leaning areas? Peer presure might prompt them to vote Democrat. Them being from South African, probably feel more pressure to be on "the right side of history" from the general population.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    , @nebulafox
    @Twinkie

    I'm not. Apartheid was before my time, but my impression from my mother is that it was so deeply stigmatized by the 1990s that most "normal" Afrikaners wanted to distance themselves from it after it fell. That adds an additional impetus to the usual pressure to conform to upper-middle class American norms among professional class immigrants, and as those norms radicalize concerning blacks in the United States...

    I'm familiar with what seems like an analogue on the surface, but really isn't: there are plenty of Indian coders and STEM students in the US who vote Democrat, but are BJP supporters in Indian politics, and would privately say stuff about Islam that makes the crowd here look tame. Apart from the usual "only white people can be racist" dynamic, though, there's a more subtle, correlated but distinct factor: nobody in the US without ties to the region cares about Hindu nationalism, or understands the often old history behind Hindu-Muslim conflict on the subcontinent. Apartheid was a different story: everybody knew what was going on in South Africa, and that history was concentrated more in modern times. In America, it had added resonance due to the then-recent history with Jim Crow.

  62. @nebulafox
    @V. K. Ovelund

    >The trend in South Africa, a country that has hurtled further along the arc to white ruin, affords a vague analogy.

    I don't think the analogy checks out. South African whites have always been a minority: probably 20% at most in that nation's history. That's one of the things the fueled the dynamics of apartheid.

    (This goes back in history. One of the reason Portuguese plantation owners in Northern Brazil tended to be notably sadistic was the demographics: the slaves outnumbered them 100:1, so they thought the only way to keep control was to keep the Africans in a constant state of terror. Adding fuel to the fire is that many of the Portuguese colonists were convicted hardcore felons-rapists, murderers, arsonists, violent robbers, a rather different league of naughtiness from the petty debtors and drunks and prostitutes the British deported.)

    America, by contrast, used to be an overwhelmingly white nation, with a black minority at around 13% of the populace. Now it is on track to be a white plurality nation, with that same black minority percentage, and sharp upticks in the Asian and especially Hispanic contingents. You'd think that the Usual Suspects would realize that simultaneously demonizing downclass whites while reminding them they are white and crowing about their demographic "demise" is a pretty dumb move if you don't want them to become a cohesive racial block in politics, but triumphalism does a lot to warp your mind.

    That all being said, I think the GOP's optimal future would about uniting people who aren't going to benefit from a woke neoliberal petty authoritarian dystopia. One surprising political divide that is often ignored is gender among unmarried singles: the culture of the modern Left is pretty hostile to young men who do not fit the woke striver model, and many of them-by no means all white-are noticing that.

    Replies: @Talha, @V. K. Ovelund

    I think the GOP’s optimal future would about uniting people who aren’t going to benefit from a woke neoliberal petty authoritarian dystopia.

    Quite right.

    I do not care about the GOP (because the GOP hardly cares about me) and I strongly oppose the Great Replacement, but I have never credited the political suggestion that demographic change would doom the GOP.

    Regrettably, the Democratic Party as presently constituted is repulsive. If it weren’t, I would have become a Democrat a long time ago. Yet it isn’t only whites that that Party repels.

  63. @Twinkie
    @V. K. Ovelund


    What foreigners outside the United States think about the United States does not much matter, but the image American media projects abroad of life in the United States is bizarre. It would be hard enough (impossible, really) for the media to explain genuine American culture abroad if the media were trying to tell the truth.
     
    Funny (to me) story. I was in Indonesia some years ago, and was at this small village. After a while I noted that a young man was following me around. At some point I decided enough was enough and gestured him to come over. He seemingly gathered his courage and spoke to me in halting English.

    Me: Hello, you there. Have you been following me?
    Him: Yes, yes, yes. Follow you.
    Me: Might I ask why?
    Him: You no Indonesia? Where you?
    Me: No, I am not Indonesian. I am an American.
    Him: Where America?
    Me: [Gave him the Midwestern state where I lived at the time, he shakes his head, so...] Not too far from Chicago, you know Chicago?
    Him: Yes, yes, yes! [Really excited.] Chicago Bulls! Michael Jordan! Number one! [Smiles very happily like he just met someone on the team.]
    Me: Yes, that Chicago.
    Him: But you no look Michael Jordan. You America?
    Me: No, I do not look like Michael Jordan. And, yes, I am an American.
    Him: You walk America [Do we walk differently? Like we own everywhere we go, maybe? Some strutting walk?], you big America [I'm 6'2" and was pretty muscular back then], you talk America, but your face... It... AH-SHI-AHN!
    Me: Yes, I am an American of Asian background. I came from Asia, immigrated to America, and became an American.
    Him: [Gives me a puzzled look.] No, no. [Shakes his head and gives me a look of disbelief.] Face Ah-shi-ahn.

    I just cannot get over the extent to which American media lie about practically everything.
     
    So at the next village, one of my local contacts asked whether I could go about on my own. I was okay with that and asked him why. He said, "This village have satellite. I watch Mike Tyson fight. You okay here? Not miss Mike Tyson fight."

    So after the while, the sense I got from the these rural Indonesians was that America was about 50% white people and 50% blacks who played sports, sang songs, and were entertainers. Because that's what Hollywood and the American media in general portrayed.

    And that was years ago. Imagine now - they probably think America is 25% (racist) white people and 75% blacks who are presidents, doctors, scientists, military leaders, and so on.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    >Imagine now – they probably think America is 25% (racist) white people and 75% blacks who are presidents, doctors, scientists, military leaders, and so on.

    As of the late 2010s, they still think most Americans are white (and in most of Indonesia, that still means exotic), black Americans are rap stars, athletes, or criminals, and that Americans from a Hispanic or Asian background are rarities. Though not all whites are instantly taken for Americans. I was taken for a European, for whatever reason. Dunno if that was a shot to the balls as to how scrawny I was or an acknowledgement of non-obesity. I’ll take it as the former to motivate me.

    Also extends to other countries: non-Chinese Singaporeans get the same confusion. Since Singapore understandably means $$$ hey boleh uang rokok, it fits in well with the “Jew” stereotypes bumi Indonesians tend to have about their own ethnic Chinese.

    One thing that has changed over the past 15 years or so is that the Internet has rapidly proliferated in the developing world. That’s a mixed bag for the Narrative.

  64. @Twinkie
    @V. K. Ovelund


    The trend in South Africa, a country that has hurtled further along the arc to white ruin, affords a vague analogy.
     
    I think another commenter (Nebulafox) already addressed this point well - the U.S. and South Africa have vastly different history and demography and so do American whites and South African whites.

    One thing I should note - purely as a side topic - is that there is a tendency among certain American racialist rightists to valorize "the Boers." I get the sense that they don't actually know white South Africans in real life.

    I have close Afrikaner emigre friends, and I was pretty aghast that, after Naturalization, most of them opted to vote for Hillary and the Democrats. Why, I screamed - my exact words were, "You fled South Africa because of the ANC - why would you vote for the American ANC?" I never got a satisfactory answer from them - something about "the environment" or "science" or something vague like that. Now, they are emigres, after all, so there is probably some sort of a selection effect going on, but I was pretty surprised to learn that white South Africans - English- or Afrikaans-speaking - don't have some racial warrior tendencies that certain American rightists ascribe to them, but were in general more "liberal" than imagined.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @anon, @Rattus Norwegius, @nebulafox

    I have close Afrikaner emigre friends, and I was pretty aghast that, after Naturalization, most of them opted to vote for Hillary and the Democrats.

    I’ve only known one white South African well. He was a screaming liberal. He was a zealous supporter of every variety of liberal nutjobbery you can name. He also lived off the Australian taxpayer.

    My assumption is that white South Africans are like white people elsewhere. Addicted to virtue-signalling.

  65. @Twinkie
    @dfordoom


    I’m not anti-American. I like Americans just fine. I just see no benefits and a lot of costs to our continuing to be an American satellite.

    As for explicit disdain for the US, I don’t think I have any more disdain for the US as a political entity than the average American dissident rightist has. I find it weird that so many Americans hate their own government so much but then get all butt-hurt when a non-American doesn’t bow down and worship the USA.
     
    "The average American dissident rightist" - if you go by Unz commenters - is quite fringe. Rightists in America are a minority (as rightists are in almost all developed countries). Unz-reading rightists are a minority of that minority. And Unz-commenters are a minority of that minority of a minority. You are talking a very small number of people.

    Whatever the case may be with that, I don't expect you to "bow down and worship" my country (after all, it's not your country, which you tout as "the best in the world"), but I do find it puzzling that you frequent an American dissident rightist blog and relentlessly and reflexively badmouth America, American rightists, and Christianity. What brings you here?

    And given your love of China, shouldn't you be frequenting some Chinese dissident blog? Oh, wait, never mind. They don't have dissident blogs. Anyway, good luck with the Chinese in the future.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    but I do find it puzzling that you frequent an American dissident rightist blog and relentlessly and reflexively badmouth America, American rightists, and Christianity. What brings you here?

    Unz Review is a dissident site, not an explicitly dissident right site. And I’m a dissident. On some of the blogs here (Sailer’s, AE’s, Anatoly Karlin’s) there are extremely interesting discussions and some very astute commenters.

    I agree with the dissident right on some things. Many of their criticisms of the current state of western society and many of their criticisms of the current political order are spot on. They’re like libertarians – often very astute at diagnosing problems. Like libertarians they’re not so good at coming up with solutions, but maybe there aren’t any good solutions.

    I think the dissident right is guilty of faulty strategic thinking. Too much emphasis on race hatred, which simply amounts to agreeing to fight the battles your enemy wants you to fight on ground of his choosing. Too much conspiracy theory thinking. Too much obsession with Jews. Too much magical thinking (believing that whites are going to adopt racial solidarity, believing in “peaceful separation”).

    The current political order needs to be opposed, but I don’t think the dissident right is doing so effectively.

    I don’t hate America, I just hate the political entity known as the US.

    I don’t see Christianity as having a great deal of relevance to the modern world. I don’t see it as a force that is going to help us get out of our current mess.

    As for American rightists, which ones are you referring to? I’ve given my views on the dissident right. The mainstream American Right doesn’t appeal to me. The mainstream Australian Right doesn’t appeal to me either.

    • Agree: Yahya K.
  66. anon[587] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie
    @V. K. Ovelund


    The trend in South Africa, a country that has hurtled further along the arc to white ruin, affords a vague analogy.
     
    I think another commenter (Nebulafox) already addressed this point well - the U.S. and South Africa have vastly different history and demography and so do American whites and South African whites.

    One thing I should note - purely as a side topic - is that there is a tendency among certain American racialist rightists to valorize "the Boers." I get the sense that they don't actually know white South Africans in real life.

    I have close Afrikaner emigre friends, and I was pretty aghast that, after Naturalization, most of them opted to vote for Hillary and the Democrats. Why, I screamed - my exact words were, "You fled South Africa because of the ANC - why would you vote for the American ANC?" I never got a satisfactory answer from them - something about "the environment" or "science" or something vague like that. Now, they are emigres, after all, so there is probably some sort of a selection effect going on, but I was pretty surprised to learn that white South Africans - English- or Afrikaans-speaking - don't have some racial warrior tendencies that certain American rightists ascribe to them, but were in general more "liberal" than imagined.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @anon, @Rattus Norwegius, @nebulafox

    I was pretty surprised to learn that white South Africans – English- or Afrikaans-speaking – don’t have some racial warrior tendencies that certain American rightists ascribe to them,

    It’s been over a century since the first concentration camps were opened by Kitchener’s troops to imprison Boer women and children; the deaths from disease were not at all trivial in those camps, by the way. Perhaps that changed the genes? Or perhaps the utter defeat of the Orange Free State was complete, and a few generations of propaganda had its effects?

    Whatever it may be, most South Africans whether Dutch, Anglo-Dutch, Anglo or Hugenot descent aren’t the same people their great grandfathers were, and this is true in just about every other country on the globe.

    A book some may find interesting about the Boer war: “Boer Commando” by Denis Rhys. He was present at a couple of significant fights such as Ladysmith. He also survived the entire war & postwar, and then served with the Brits in France during the unpleasantness of 1914.

  67. @anon
    @Curmudgeon

    The point I was making is that the US government would get better value for money if it went to a single payer system.

    Following that logic there must be no fraud or abuse of the existing Medicare system, because it must have all that single-payer effeciency.

    Do you believe that to be true?

    What's the population of Sweden? Or Switzerland? Or Korea? Or Slovakia? How many Africans are enrolled in their health care system, and why does that matter?

    For a bonus question, how is Medicare funded, and what would expanding it to a universal system do fiscally?

    You're not the first person to make these claims, y'know.

    Replies: @Curmudgeon

    As I said, there are several universal model types. There will always be some level of fraud in any system, it is virtually impossible to stop completely.
    The most frequent system referred to in the US is the Canadian system, which has undergone considerable “reform” (deform) over the last 30 years. In short, there is Federal Legislation that mandates publicly administered health care, and cost sharing provisions to ensure necessary services are covered. Each provincial government is responsible for organizing their system in a way that suits the needs of the province. In the “old system” individual hospitals submitted annual budgets for providing government approved (contracted) programmes, such as orthopedic surgery, and the budgets were generally approved. The hospitals were free to offer other services not contracted, and could raise money to do that, as they pleased. The budgets included all aspects of running the facility from housekeeping to new equipment. If hospitals had surpluses, they could normally keep them. If unforeseen events created deficits, the deficit would most often be funded. Today, the hospital side is run by “regional health authorities” within each province. They are essentially managed care HMOs. The hospitals have very little autonomy currently, thanks to the US “experts that came in the 90s to advise us on how to run our system. Administrations and managers have tripled in number.

    [MORE]

    On the MD fee side, each province has “insured services” similar to insurance companies. The MD bills directly. The MDs negotiate collectively, they are a union, but won’t call themselves that, for both the fee guide – office visits, surgical procedures, diagnostic testing, etc. I go to any doctor I want for GP exams, but you can’t go directly to a specialist, except for cosmetic surgery, which is on your own hook, unless connected to an illness (e.g. breast reconstruction after cancer) or injury (e.g. cleft palate or post accident facial reconstruction.
    Not all services are covered. Dental is not covered, unless performed in a hospital, (like wisdom extractions). Routine eye exams are not covered any longer, for adults. Some physio and/or occupational therapy is now not covered. I have private insurance for those. My province has a Pharmacare programme for prescription drugs (other than those used in hospital stays or cancer treatment), with a deductible based on a % of income. After that all prescription drugs are covered. Private insurance can be purchased to cover the gap. Other provinces do not have a similar programme. My province also provides home care for those returning from hospital, or not really ready for nursing homes. It is cheaper to have them at home than in nursing homes (Private are available, but most geared to income). Most other provinces do not. Our current conservative government is doing its best to privatize and de-list whatever services it can.
    As for cost, while attending several IFEBP conferences over more than a dozen years, US speakers noted that the “disposable (after tax) income” gap between US and Canadian populations was about 8%, which is roughly the cost of running our system. I have friends in other provinces who pay lower taxes, but more for their private insurance to fill the gap. At the end of the day, it’s about the same.
    The population of the country is less of an issue than geography. More than 70% of Canada’s population lives within 100 miles of the US – Canada border. Northern areas are sparsely populated. It is impractical to have a hospital serving 25,000 people over an area of 2000 square miles, or more, have the same capabilities as a hospital serving a town/city of 25,000 people. Medical evacuations are part of the cost. Hospitals in Toronto, Montreal, or Vancouver, will have higher operating costs because of their physical size and land taxes, but are better able to provide more specialized care.
    The same is true in the US. Alaska, Wyoming, and Montana, for example, would face more challenges than Florida, California or Illinois.
    I worked in and around the system for 40 years. Thirty years ago, Canada’s system was seen as the best in the world by most of the MDs here, because it was flexible. I’d be hard pressed to say that now.
    Either way, the US government currently spends almost twice as much per capita as Canada does, and has no universal coverage and poorer outcomes, while having critical illnesses the number one cause of bankruptcies. As I have posted previously, in the mid 80s Lee Iacocca warned that the lack of a universal system was going to kill the auto industry, because all of the competitor countries had a universal system of some sort. At the time, the highest cost in manufacturing was the health benefits of employees – over 30%. It’s another reason to offshore.

  68. @Twinkie
    @V. K. Ovelund


    The trend in South Africa, a country that has hurtled further along the arc to white ruin, affords a vague analogy.
     
    I think another commenter (Nebulafox) already addressed this point well - the U.S. and South Africa have vastly different history and demography and so do American whites and South African whites.

    One thing I should note - purely as a side topic - is that there is a tendency among certain American racialist rightists to valorize "the Boers." I get the sense that they don't actually know white South Africans in real life.

    I have close Afrikaner emigre friends, and I was pretty aghast that, after Naturalization, most of them opted to vote for Hillary and the Democrats. Why, I screamed - my exact words were, "You fled South Africa because of the ANC - why would you vote for the American ANC?" I never got a satisfactory answer from them - something about "the environment" or "science" or something vague like that. Now, they are emigres, after all, so there is probably some sort of a selection effect going on, but I was pretty surprised to learn that white South Africans - English- or Afrikaans-speaking - don't have some racial warrior tendencies that certain American rightists ascribe to them, but were in general more "liberal" than imagined.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @anon, @Rattus Norwegius, @nebulafox

    The White South African culture, whether Afrikaans or English is going to die out by the second generation. Their sense of identity is a far cry from the Jews.

    Did those South African emigrants live in liberal leaning areas? Peer presure might prompt them to vote Democrat. Them being from South African, probably feel more pressure to be on “the right side of history” from the general population.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Rattus Norwegius

    I'm not sure that's true in the strictest sense: American Jewish identity has and is changing due to the rate of intermarriage: plenty of hapas have one Jewish parent and one Chinese/Indian one. In a weaker one, it probably is, but that's due to inertia. It's also worth pointing out that there are newer Jewish immigrants from the former USSR who have their own identity due to mass assimilation during the Soviet Union's later decades, and often quite different politics.

    The notion of "American Jew as underdog ethnicity" is too divorced from reality to last for long in a nation not overwhelmingly dominated by Judeophile white Gentiles. There are some ethnic groups from the post-1965 immigration wave that do tend to look upon Jews admiringly, but precisely *because* they are affluent and on a tacit level "the whitest of all white people", not the other way around.

    (In terms of foreign policy, pro-Israeli Democratic political bosses like Schumer are in their 70s and aren't going to be around in 30 years-pro-Palestinian sentiment is the future. The GOP, for its part, has been getting more secularized. It will likely remain pro-Israeli, but not on the same kind of emotional, unconditional basis that was the norm in the Bush II days.)

  69. @Rattus Norwegius
    @Twinkie

    The White South African culture, whether Afrikaans or English is going to die out by the second generation. Their sense of identity is a far cry from the Jews.

    Did those South African emigrants live in liberal leaning areas? Peer presure might prompt them to vote Democrat. Them being from South African, probably feel more pressure to be on "the right side of history" from the general population.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    I’m not sure that’s true in the strictest sense: American Jewish identity has and is changing due to the rate of intermarriage: plenty of hapas have one Jewish parent and one Chinese/Indian one. In a weaker one, it probably is, but that’s due to inertia. It’s also worth pointing out that there are newer Jewish immigrants from the former USSR who have their own identity due to mass assimilation during the Soviet Union’s later decades, and often quite different politics.

    The notion of “American Jew as underdog ethnicity” is too divorced from reality to last for long in a nation not overwhelmingly dominated by Judeophile white Gentiles. There are some ethnic groups from the post-1965 immigration wave that do tend to look upon Jews admiringly, but precisely *because* they are affluent and on a tacit level “the whitest of all white people”, not the other way around.

    (In terms of foreign policy, pro-Israeli Democratic political bosses like Schumer are in their 70s and aren’t going to be around in 30 years-pro-Palestinian sentiment is the future. The GOP, for its part, has been getting more secularized. It will likely remain pro-Israeli, but not on the same kind of emotional, unconditional basis that was the norm in the Bush II days.)

  70. @Twinkie
    @V. K. Ovelund


    The trend in South Africa, a country that has hurtled further along the arc to white ruin, affords a vague analogy.
     
    I think another commenter (Nebulafox) already addressed this point well - the U.S. and South Africa have vastly different history and demography and so do American whites and South African whites.

    One thing I should note - purely as a side topic - is that there is a tendency among certain American racialist rightists to valorize "the Boers." I get the sense that they don't actually know white South Africans in real life.

    I have close Afrikaner emigre friends, and I was pretty aghast that, after Naturalization, most of them opted to vote for Hillary and the Democrats. Why, I screamed - my exact words were, "You fled South Africa because of the ANC - why would you vote for the American ANC?" I never got a satisfactory answer from them - something about "the environment" or "science" or something vague like that. Now, they are emigres, after all, so there is probably some sort of a selection effect going on, but I was pretty surprised to learn that white South Africans - English- or Afrikaans-speaking - don't have some racial warrior tendencies that certain American rightists ascribe to them, but were in general more "liberal" than imagined.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @anon, @Rattus Norwegius, @nebulafox

    I’m not. Apartheid was before my time, but my impression from my mother is that it was so deeply stigmatized by the 1990s that most “normal” Afrikaners wanted to distance themselves from it after it fell. That adds an additional impetus to the usual pressure to conform to upper-middle class American norms among professional class immigrants, and as those norms radicalize concerning blacks in the United States…

    I’m familiar with what seems like an analogue on the surface, but really isn’t: there are plenty of Indian coders and STEM students in the US who vote Democrat, but are BJP supporters in Indian politics, and would privately say stuff about Islam that makes the crowd here look tame. Apart from the usual “only white people can be racist” dynamic, though, there’s a more subtle, correlated but distinct factor: nobody in the US without ties to the region cares about Hindu nationalism, or understands the often old history behind Hindu-Muslim conflict on the subcontinent. Apartheid was a different story: everybody knew what was going on in South Africa, and that history was concentrated more in modern times. In America, it had added resonance due to the then-recent history with Jim Crow.

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