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Though they express apprehension about being vaccinated for Covid, blacks also express the most fear over the spread of the disease:

The partisan differences are stark.

After 9/11, Republican fears provided the pretense that allowed the surveillance state to greatly expand its power and scope at the expense of the citizenry’s civil liberties. After Covid, Democrat fears have provided the pretense to allow the control state to greatly expand its power and scope at the expense of the citizenry’s civil liberties.

 
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  1. fter 9/11, Republican fears provided the pretense that allowed the surveillance state to greatly expand its power and scope at the expense of the citizenry’s civil liberties.

    Do you have survey data to support that? I think it is probably wrong, although I don’t remember the politics of passing the Patriot Act very well. I don’t remember much controversy or pushback from anyone. My guess is that it was, again, Democrat fears that allowed that surveillance expansion. Rather than opposing Bush-Cheney, the Democrats at that time supported them… because they were afraid.

    • Disagree: Supply and Demand
    • Replies: @Jtgw
    @Chrisnonymous

    My impression was support for increased surveillance at the start was bipartisan, with only opposition among libertarians and extreme liberals. But opposition grew over time initially more on the left. The left definitely hated Bush, often for good reason, but I think it was mostly partisanship that drove their opposition. There’s a reason under Obama we had all those memes about “where did the anti war left go?” It wasn’t really until Ron Paul in 2008 that a conservative/libertarian opposition to the War on Terror became somewhat mainstream.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    , @Bill
    @Chrisnonymous

    There is a tracker for bills moving through Congress here.

    The tracker for the Patriot Act, opened to the relevant tab, is here.

    The Patriot Act passed the Senate 98-1.

    The Patriot Act passed the House 357-66.

    Of the 66 Members voting against, 63 were Democrats and 2 were Republicans. Of the 357 Members voting in favor, 211 were Republicans and 141 were Democrats. See here.

    By modern standards, this was a very bi-partisan vote in the House, and, of course, the vote in the Senate was virtually unanimous.

    Blaming the GOP specifically for this is pretty retarded. It was a moment of warm, bipartisan, swamp-creature comity.

    In case anyone cares how the anti-swamp-creatures voted, Cynthia McKinney voted Nay. I'm sad to say that Jim Trafficant voted Yea. McKinney was taken out in the 2002 election as was Trafficant. That was a bad year. Hard to believe it was 18 years ago.

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @Chrisnonymous

    Here's one with support for extending the Patriot Act by partisan affiliation:

    Democrats -- 43%
    Republicans -- 80%
    Independents -- 54%

    That's how I remember it. Democrats were split, Republicans were all for the surveillance state.

    Now Republicans are split, Democrats are all for the lockdown state.

    Historical comparisons can of course be stretched too far but I don't think this is an unreasonable one.

  2. Speaking of ” the control state to greatly expand its power and scope at the expense of the citizenry’s civil liberties.” I would short airline stocks right now:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9069289/United-CDC-looks-death-man-flight-Florida.html

    Idiot with cough and shaking chills who knows he has COVID boards a United flight from Orlando to LA and dies mid-flight. His wife “shared he was in fact COVID positive and symptomatic for over a week..” once the cpr started.

    Interesting how the blame in the article is directed to the airline, whilst the blame in the comments is rightly aimed at the idiot passenger couple themselves. Either way, this incident could seriously threaten to increase calls to shut down domestic air travel.

    You can’t have nice things in a country filled with low-IQ people with low sense of personal accountability.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    @PennTothal

    At least his last act was to help spread herd immunity. Hats off to that hero.

    , @Soviet of Washington
    @PennTothal

    But don't you dare let your 2 year old pull their mask off, or there will be real consequences.

    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @PennTothal


    You can’t have nice things in a country filled with low-IQ people with low sense of personal accountability.
     
    https://media1.tenor.com/images/462c2691643cf8aa74bb1632ac5c0fd7/tenor.gif?itemid=15743550
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @PennTothal

    People die on flights regularly, Mr. Tothal. It's just the odds. For some seizures and such, on domestic routes (especially in the East), planes can divert pretty quickly to save people, but on the Atlantic and even more, the Pacific routes, all bets are off. A diversion of a wide body to a low-weather location in the Aleutians or somewhere is a bad deal for all concerned, and the guy may still not make it after 3 hours (worst case ETOPS* limit based on engine reliability).

    I guess that was quite the digression from your story. I agree that this may become some big story that may tank the airline stocks. What I'd like to know is if anyone else on that plane will even get the sniffles later. I doubt I'll see THAT follow up story in the dailymail.uk. ('Course I don't read it, so ...)

    .


    * That's Extended Twin-engine Operations, ETOPS-180 means 180 minutes to a diversion airport, but they are up to ETOPS-370 now for certain aircraft/routes. They've got links to on-call docs on the ground, but ...

    , @iffen
    @PennTothal

    You can’t have nice things in a country filled with low-IQ people with low sense of personal accountability.

    Not when low-IQ + 1 point people facilitate the misrule of the "really high IQ" self-serving misanthropes.

    , @PennTothal
    @PennTothal

    The name of the man who boarded the plane with COVID and then died mid-flight is now public:

    As expected, given the lack of MSM indignation towards him and his wife's irresponsible behavior, he is other than white:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/man-died-united-flight-confirmed-covid-19-2020-12

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    , @PennTothal
    @PennTothal

    The name of the man who boarded the plane with COVID and then died mid-flight is now public:

    As expected, given the lack of MSM indignation towards him and his wife's irresponsible behavior, he is other-than -white:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/man-died-united-flight-confirmed-covid-19-2020-12

  3. @Chrisnonymous

    fter 9/11, Republican fears provided the pretense that allowed the surveillance state to greatly expand its power and scope at the expense of the citizenry’s civil liberties.
     
    Do you have survey data to support that? I think it is probably wrong, although I don't remember the politics of passing the Patriot Act very well. I don't remember much controversy or pushback from anyone. My guess is that it was, again, Democrat fears that allowed that surveillance expansion. Rather than opposing Bush-Cheney, the Democrats at that time supported them... because they were afraid.

    Replies: @Jtgw, @Bill, @Audacious Epigone

    My impression was support for increased surveillance at the start was bipartisan, with only opposition among libertarians and extreme liberals. But opposition grew over time initially more on the left. The left definitely hated Bush, often for good reason, but I think it was mostly partisanship that drove their opposition. There’s a reason under Obama we had all those memes about “where did the anti war left go?” It wasn’t really until Ron Paul in 2008 that a conservative/libertarian opposition to the War on Terror became somewhat mainstream.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Jtgw

    Initially bipartisan. Okay. To bring it back to AE's comparison, would you say there was ever opposition from the left to the Bush-Cheney surveillance that paralleled in its extent the opposition to COVID restrictions going on now? COVID restrictions seem to be instituted over the opposition of (or, despite...) a fair number of Republican voters, but I don't recall any popular opposition to the Bush-Cheney surveillance--maybe there were just a few really radical leftists but I don't recall seeing any news about them.

    Another way to look at this is, rather than looking at the political opposition, looking at the same-party support. My sense is that the left today not only don't oppose COVID restrictions, they actively support them. I'm not sure how true that was of the right and Bush-Cheney. Just going by myself and my family, I never spoke out against anything even though I commented on blogs at the time, but I was highly skeptical of Bush's strategies from the beginning even though I was a pretty cookie-cutter Republican in other ways at that time. The failure to find WMD caused me to change my voter registration. I certainly didn't feel that we needed the War on Terror in order to be safe.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Jtgw, @Jay Fink

  4. After 9/11, Republican fears provided the pretense that allowed the surveillance state to greatly expand its power and scope at the expense of the citizenry’s civil liberties. After Covid, Democrat fears have provided the pretense to allow the control state to greatly expand its power and scope at the expense of the citizenry’s civil liberties.

    Yes, the Deep State is in control…of both parties.

  5. Among any racial, political, education level or age group, COVID concern must be heavily driven by women, which is extremely stereotypical. The trifecta of Democrat female persons of color must be losing their minds.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    @Cloudbuster


    Among any racial, political, education level or age group, COVID concern must be heavily driven by women,
     
    Oh yes, it must be. No evidence needed.

    Replies: @Cloudbuster, @RoatanBill

  6. @PennTothal
    Speaking of " the control state to greatly expand its power and scope at the expense of the citizenry’s civil liberties." I would short airline stocks right now:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9069289/United-CDC-looks-death-man-flight-Florida.html

    Idiot with cough and shaking chills who knows he has COVID boards a United flight from Orlando to LA and dies mid-flight. His wife "shared he was in fact COVID positive and symptomatic for over a week.." once the cpr started.

    Interesting how the blame in the article is directed to the airline, whilst the blame in the comments is rightly aimed at the idiot passenger couple themselves. Either way, this incident could seriously threaten to increase calls to shut down domestic air travel.

    You can't have nice things in a country filled with low-IQ people with low sense of personal accountability.

    Replies: @Cloudbuster, @Soviet of Washington, @Bardon Kaldian, @Achmed E. Newman, @iffen, @PennTothal, @PennTothal

    At least his last act was to help spread herd immunity. Hats off to that hero.

  7. @PennTothal
    Speaking of " the control state to greatly expand its power and scope at the expense of the citizenry’s civil liberties." I would short airline stocks right now:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9069289/United-CDC-looks-death-man-flight-Florida.html

    Idiot with cough and shaking chills who knows he has COVID boards a United flight from Orlando to LA and dies mid-flight. His wife "shared he was in fact COVID positive and symptomatic for over a week.." once the cpr started.

    Interesting how the blame in the article is directed to the airline, whilst the blame in the comments is rightly aimed at the idiot passenger couple themselves. Either way, this incident could seriously threaten to increase calls to shut down domestic air travel.

    You can't have nice things in a country filled with low-IQ people with low sense of personal accountability.

    Replies: @Cloudbuster, @Soviet of Washington, @Bardon Kaldian, @Achmed E. Newman, @iffen, @PennTothal, @PennTothal

    But don’t you dare let your 2 year old pull their mask off, or there will be real consequences.

    • Agree: radicalcenter
  8. @PennTothal
    Speaking of " the control state to greatly expand its power and scope at the expense of the citizenry’s civil liberties." I would short airline stocks right now:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9069289/United-CDC-looks-death-man-flight-Florida.html

    Idiot with cough and shaking chills who knows he has COVID boards a United flight from Orlando to LA and dies mid-flight. His wife "shared he was in fact COVID positive and symptomatic for over a week.." once the cpr started.

    Interesting how the blame in the article is directed to the airline, whilst the blame in the comments is rightly aimed at the idiot passenger couple themselves. Either way, this incident could seriously threaten to increase calls to shut down domestic air travel.

    You can't have nice things in a country filled with low-IQ people with low sense of personal accountability.

    Replies: @Cloudbuster, @Soviet of Washington, @Bardon Kaldian, @Achmed E. Newman, @iffen, @PennTothal, @PennTothal

    You can’t have nice things in a country filled with low-IQ people with low sense of personal accountability.

  9. After 9/11, Republican fears provided the pretense that allowed the surveillance state…

    Are you sure it was ONLY “Republican fears”?

    Dude, I really don’t know, but I suspect it was not. To my recollection, it was just about everybody who was on board with that shit.

    I know it fits into this particular post of yours, but really, please, did that truly fit with only Republican fears, circa 2001?

    No, it didn’t, anymore than whatever shit is happening TO US now is from one party or another.

    You know better. At least I think you do.

  10. Anon[240] • Disclaimer says:

    Probably this does not affect the poll results, but it is in any case important. “Fear” is a different mental state from “anticipatory anxiety.” The latter has a literature. It has been imaged. The human brain has been called “an anticipation machine.” With Covid, the harm is not right there in front of you, as it would be if suddenly three car hijackers appear and are about to murder you. And there are other differences. Throughout the pandemic, its behavioral aspect, and dealing with it, have been written about by experts whose field is not psychology or psychiatry, with a subspecialty in motivation. This error continues, as the wrong experts weigh-in on how to motivate people to trust the vaccine.

  11. @Jtgw
    @Chrisnonymous

    My impression was support for increased surveillance at the start was bipartisan, with only opposition among libertarians and extreme liberals. But opposition grew over time initially more on the left. The left definitely hated Bush, often for good reason, but I think it was mostly partisanship that drove their opposition. There’s a reason under Obama we had all those memes about “where did the anti war left go?” It wasn’t really until Ron Paul in 2008 that a conservative/libertarian opposition to the War on Terror became somewhat mainstream.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    Initially bipartisan. Okay. To bring it back to AE’s comparison, would you say there was ever opposition from the left to the Bush-Cheney surveillance that paralleled in its extent the opposition to COVID restrictions going on now? COVID restrictions seem to be instituted over the opposition of (or, despite…) a fair number of Republican voters, but I don’t recall any popular opposition to the Bush-Cheney surveillance–maybe there were just a few really radical leftists but I don’t recall seeing any news about them.

    Another way to look at this is, rather than looking at the political opposition, looking at the same-party support. My sense is that the left today not only don’t oppose COVID restrictions, they actively support them. I’m not sure how true that was of the right and Bush-Cheney. Just going by myself and my family, I never spoke out against anything even though I commented on blogs at the time, but I was highly skeptical of Bush’s strategies from the beginning even though I was a pretty cookie-cutter Republican in other ways at that time. The failure to find WMD caused me to change my voter registration. I certainly didn’t feel that we needed the War on Terror in order to be safe.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Chrisnonymous

    See also...

    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/republicans-are-happier-than-democrats/

    , @Jtgw
    @Chrisnonymous

    I remember that era and for a time I was a Bush loving conservative supporter of the War on Terror, Iraq and the rest. I remember anti war conservatives like Pat Buchanan existing but being very marginal and certainly not expressing views of most of the conservative base. Usually if conservatives criticized Bush it came from an even more hawkish position Eg Bush was too soft on Muslims, should put all mosques under surveillance, should not try so hard to spare civilians in Afghanistan etc. You might dimly recall Ann Coulter calling for forcible mass conversion of Afghans to Christianity. Definitely in my recollection bulk of opposition to war on terror was from the left. Mainstream liberals went along with some of it, including even Iraq, but were first to withdraw support after Abu Ghraib revelations. Yeah sorry the idea that it was conservatives that were main opponents of militarism in those days just doesn’t fit with any of my recollection. If anyone can find solid evidence to contrary I’d be interested to see it.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    , @Jay Fink
    @Chrisnonymous

    I was a strong Republican yet was very much against the Iraq war from the beginning, actually months before it started. I was a longtime admirer of Saddam Hussein. I appreciated how secular Iraq was. I was well aware 15 of the 19 911 terrorists were Saudi and none were Iraqi. I knew Bush and the neocons were playing a game of switcharoo and it sickened me how easily Americans fell for it, especially Republicans.

    Yet unlike you I didn't consider changing parties. Part of the reasons is I disagree with Democrats on fiscal issues. Another reason is I realized the Democrat establishment were neolibs who also supported invading Iraq.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

  12. @Chrisnonymous
    @Jtgw

    Initially bipartisan. Okay. To bring it back to AE's comparison, would you say there was ever opposition from the left to the Bush-Cheney surveillance that paralleled in its extent the opposition to COVID restrictions going on now? COVID restrictions seem to be instituted over the opposition of (or, despite...) a fair number of Republican voters, but I don't recall any popular opposition to the Bush-Cheney surveillance--maybe there were just a few really radical leftists but I don't recall seeing any news about them.

    Another way to look at this is, rather than looking at the political opposition, looking at the same-party support. My sense is that the left today not only don't oppose COVID restrictions, they actively support them. I'm not sure how true that was of the right and Bush-Cheney. Just going by myself and my family, I never spoke out against anything even though I commented on blogs at the time, but I was highly skeptical of Bush's strategies from the beginning even though I was a pretty cookie-cutter Republican in other ways at that time. The failure to find WMD caused me to change my voter registration. I certainly didn't feel that we needed the War on Terror in order to be safe.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Jtgw, @Jay Fink

  13. I’m gonna throw a few links against the wall here and see what sticks, because Peak Stupidity was all over these 2-decade apart dual big increases in the US Police State with “Is COVID-19 the Socialists’ 9/11?” in late March and “COVID / TSA twin peaks of stupidity” in early June.

    Well, OK, granted, we didn’t have colored bar graphs (correctly colored too, as you know I always appreciate).

  14. @PennTothal
    Speaking of " the control state to greatly expand its power and scope at the expense of the citizenry’s civil liberties." I would short airline stocks right now:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9069289/United-CDC-looks-death-man-flight-Florida.html

    Idiot with cough and shaking chills who knows he has COVID boards a United flight from Orlando to LA and dies mid-flight. His wife "shared he was in fact COVID positive and symptomatic for over a week.." once the cpr started.

    Interesting how the blame in the article is directed to the airline, whilst the blame in the comments is rightly aimed at the idiot passenger couple themselves. Either way, this incident could seriously threaten to increase calls to shut down domestic air travel.

    You can't have nice things in a country filled with low-IQ people with low sense of personal accountability.

    Replies: @Cloudbuster, @Soviet of Washington, @Bardon Kaldian, @Achmed E. Newman, @iffen, @PennTothal, @PennTothal

    People die on flights regularly, Mr. Tothal. It’s just the odds. For some seizures and such, on domestic routes (especially in the East), planes can divert pretty quickly to save people, but on the Atlantic and even more, the Pacific routes, all bets are off. A diversion of a wide body to a low-weather location in the Aleutians or somewhere is a bad deal for all concerned, and the guy may still not make it after 3 hours (worst case ETOPS* limit based on engine reliability).

    I guess that was quite the digression from your story. I agree that this may become some big story that may tank the airline stocks. What I’d like to know is if anyone else on that plane will even get the sniffles later. I doubt I’ll see THAT follow up story in the dailymail.uk. (‘Course I don’t read it, so …)

    .

    * That’s Extended Twin-engine Operations, ETOPS-180 means 180 minutes to a diversion airport, but they are up to ETOPS-370 now for certain aircraft/routes. They’ve got links to on-call docs on the ground, but …

  15. @Cloudbuster
    Among any racial, political, education level or age group, COVID concern must be heavily driven by women, which is extremely stereotypical. The trifecta of Democrat female persons of color must be losing their minds.

    Replies: @Rosie

    Among any racial, political, education level or age group, COVID concern must be heavily driven by women,

    Oh yes, it must be. No evidence needed.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    @Rosie

    I don't even know what to say to that. I feel kind of embarrassed for you. Please examine the chart more closely.

    Replies: @Rosie

    , @RoatanBill
    @Rosie

    Life experience alone is enough to say Cloudbuster is correct, and if you were honest, you would agree.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Rosie

  16. @Chrisnonymous
    @Jtgw

    Initially bipartisan. Okay. To bring it back to AE's comparison, would you say there was ever opposition from the left to the Bush-Cheney surveillance that paralleled in its extent the opposition to COVID restrictions going on now? COVID restrictions seem to be instituted over the opposition of (or, despite...) a fair number of Republican voters, but I don't recall any popular opposition to the Bush-Cheney surveillance--maybe there were just a few really radical leftists but I don't recall seeing any news about them.

    Another way to look at this is, rather than looking at the political opposition, looking at the same-party support. My sense is that the left today not only don't oppose COVID restrictions, they actively support them. I'm not sure how true that was of the right and Bush-Cheney. Just going by myself and my family, I never spoke out against anything even though I commented on blogs at the time, but I was highly skeptical of Bush's strategies from the beginning even though I was a pretty cookie-cutter Republican in other ways at that time. The failure to find WMD caused me to change my voter registration. I certainly didn't feel that we needed the War on Terror in order to be safe.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Jtgw, @Jay Fink

    I remember that era and for a time I was a Bush loving conservative supporter of the War on Terror, Iraq and the rest. I remember anti war conservatives like Pat Buchanan existing but being very marginal and certainly not expressing views of most of the conservative base. Usually if conservatives criticized Bush it came from an even more hawkish position Eg Bush was too soft on Muslims, should put all mosques under surveillance, should not try so hard to spare civilians in Afghanistan etc. You might dimly recall Ann Coulter calling for forcible mass conversion of Afghans to Christianity. Definitely in my recollection bulk of opposition to war on terror was from the left. Mainstream liberals went along with some of it, including even Iraq, but were first to withdraw support after Abu Ghraib revelations. Yeah sorry the idea that it was conservatives that were main opponents of militarism in those days just doesn’t fit with any of my recollection. If anyone can find solid evidence to contrary I’d be interested to see it.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Jtgw

    Yes, you correct on some points. Especially, I remember Ann Coulter's comments as extreme and, I thought probably not serious. You can't really force people to convert to anything. Even Communist Thought Reform in China was not permanent in its targets.

    Anyway, I am guilty for just referencing "the War on Terror" and lumping war and the surveillance together. There was definitely leftist opposition to Iraq--"blood for oil" (which was a wrong analysis by the way--Iraq was a neocon missionary war) and all that. However, I think there was less opposition to the surveillance state measures than to the wars from the left and also less enthusiasm on the right.

    The numbers Bill mentions suggest I am both right and wrong. Dissent from the Patriot Act occurred among Dems, but essentially the Patriot Act passed with support from the Dems. If there had been a more right/left split on the issue, perhaps there would have been more articulate opposition that would have changed some measures in the bill. Also instructive would be to see numbers on votes for Patriot Act renewal.

    Maybe I am just wrong, but my impression is still that--with regard to internal control measures--the 9/11 usurpation of freedoms was more bipartisan and had less enthusiasm from its supporters than the COVID usurpations, making the usurpations more fundamentally leftist/Democrat rather than one from the right and one from the left.

    Replies: @Jtgw

  17. @Chrisnonymous

    fter 9/11, Republican fears provided the pretense that allowed the surveillance state to greatly expand its power and scope at the expense of the citizenry’s civil liberties.
     
    Do you have survey data to support that? I think it is probably wrong, although I don't remember the politics of passing the Patriot Act very well. I don't remember much controversy or pushback from anyone. My guess is that it was, again, Democrat fears that allowed that surveillance expansion. Rather than opposing Bush-Cheney, the Democrats at that time supported them... because they were afraid.

    Replies: @Jtgw, @Bill, @Audacious Epigone

    There is a tracker for bills moving through Congress here.

    The tracker for the Patriot Act, opened to the relevant tab, is here.

    The Patriot Act passed the Senate 98-1.

    The Patriot Act passed the House 357-66.

    Of the 66 Members voting against, 63 were Democrats and 2 were Republicans. Of the 357 Members voting in favor, 211 were Republicans and 141 were Democrats. See here.

    By modern standards, this was a very bi-partisan vote in the House, and, of course, the vote in the Senate was virtually unanimous.

    Blaming the GOP specifically for this is pretty retarded. It was a moment of warm, bipartisan, swamp-creature comity.

    In case anyone cares how the anti-swamp-creatures voted, Cynthia McKinney voted Nay. I’m sad to say that Jim Trafficant voted Yea. McKinney was taken out in the 2002 election as was Trafficant. That was a bad year. Hard to believe it was 18 years ago.

  18. @Rosie
    @Cloudbuster


    Among any racial, political, education level or age group, COVID concern must be heavily driven by women,
     
    Oh yes, it must be. No evidence needed.

    Replies: @Cloudbuster, @RoatanBill

    I don’t even know what to say to that. I feel kind of embarrassed for you. Please examine the chart more closely.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    @Cloudbuster


    Please examine the chart more closely.
     
    I did. It doesn't support your conjecture that

    Among any racial, political, education level or age group, COVID concern must be heavily driven by women,
     
    The chart makes clear that the gender gap is much smaller than both the partisan and the racial gap. Yet, you choose to make women the problem.

    Of course, there may be some truth your claim, and there may come a time when there really is a wolf coming for the sheep, and women's greater antimicrobial vigilance will save the day.

    But for now, it's much better to just stick with the facts we know.

    https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2020/06/PP_covid-concerns-by-party_0-07.png

    Replies: @Cloudbuster

  19. @Cloudbuster
    @Rosie

    I don't even know what to say to that. I feel kind of embarrassed for you. Please examine the chart more closely.

    Replies: @Rosie

    Please examine the chart more closely.

    I did. It doesn’t support your conjecture that

    Among any racial, political, education level or age group, COVID concern must be heavily driven by women,

    The chart makes clear that the gender gap is much smaller than both the partisan and the racial gap. Yet, you choose to make women the problem.

    Of course, there may be some truth your claim, and there may come a time when there really is a wolf coming for the sheep, and women’s greater antimicrobial vigilance will save the day.

    But for now, it’s much better to just stick with the facts we know.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    @Rosie

    There is also a partisan gap among men and women, and partisan gaps by race.

    Women are significantly more likely to be Democrats than men.

    Men are more likely to be Republicans than women.

    Blacks are monolithically Democrats and Hispanics are heavily so, and a minority of men are Republican, yet the roughly third of men who are Black and Hispanic and the more than half of men who are Democrat or Independent weren't able to drive the "Men" category up below second-lowest, so while Black and Hispanic men and Democratic men are possibly more concerned about COVID than White Republican men, it's not to a degree that's heavily influencing the results.

    Women show twice the net concern over COVID than men do, regardless of other factors and that indicates, along with what I said above, that women are the major drivers of COVID concern.

    If we could break the data down more finely, we might find some anomaly in the subgroups that would prove me wrong, but it's not the way to bet. My assertion was hardly "without evidence."

    I don't know what "comfort with activities" means, but it's almost certainly not the same as whatever was being asked in the data AE provides.

    Replies: @JR Ewing, @Rosie

  20. @Rosie
    @Cloudbuster


    Please examine the chart more closely.
     
    I did. It doesn't support your conjecture that

    Among any racial, political, education level or age group, COVID concern must be heavily driven by women,
     
    The chart makes clear that the gender gap is much smaller than both the partisan and the racial gap. Yet, you choose to make women the problem.

    Of course, there may be some truth your claim, and there may come a time when there really is a wolf coming for the sheep, and women's greater antimicrobial vigilance will save the day.

    But for now, it's much better to just stick with the facts we know.

    https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2020/06/PP_covid-concerns-by-party_0-07.png

    Replies: @Cloudbuster

    There is also a partisan gap among men and women, and partisan gaps by race.

    Women are significantly more likely to be Democrats than men.

    Men are more likely to be Republicans than women.

    Blacks are monolithically Democrats and Hispanics are heavily so, and a minority of men are Republican, yet the roughly third of men who are Black and Hispanic and the more than half of men who are Democrat or Independent weren’t able to drive the “Men” category up below second-lowest, so while Black and Hispanic men and Democratic men are possibly more concerned about COVID than White Republican men, it’s not to a degree that’s heavily influencing the results.

    Women show twice the net concern over COVID than men do, regardless of other factors and that indicates, along with what I said above, that women are the major drivers of COVID concern.

    If we could break the data down more finely, we might find some anomaly in the subgroups that would prove me wrong, but it’s not the way to bet. My assertion was hardly “without evidence.”

    I don’t know what “comfort with activities” means, but it’s almost certainly not the same as whatever was being asked in the data AE provides.

    • Replies: @JR Ewing
    @Cloudbuster

    Not sure what she's seeing. It doesn't matter that other concurrent demographic groups are more closely sliced and divided.

    Everyone on that chart is either a man or a woman*. Across ALL of the concurrent demographic groups, women are twice as likely to be "concerned" as men are.

    Full stop.


    * Despite the wishes of a very vocal freak segment of society today, this statement is still objectively true and will be forever as long as there are genetic human beings on Earth.

    Replies: @Rosie

    , @Rosie
    @Cloudbuster


    I don’t know what “comfort with activities” means, but it’s almost certainly not the same as whatever was being asked in the data AE provides.
     
    Indeed, it's much more meaningful than that. It's one thing to say you're concerned. What sacrifices you are willing to make is the real question, and on that score, gender differences are modest.

    BTW, maybe it's just a coincidence, but it sure seems like the people who demonize women voters are the same ones who hate welfare. I wonder why that might be?
  21. @Chrisnonymous
    @Jtgw

    Initially bipartisan. Okay. To bring it back to AE's comparison, would you say there was ever opposition from the left to the Bush-Cheney surveillance that paralleled in its extent the opposition to COVID restrictions going on now? COVID restrictions seem to be instituted over the opposition of (or, despite...) a fair number of Republican voters, but I don't recall any popular opposition to the Bush-Cheney surveillance--maybe there were just a few really radical leftists but I don't recall seeing any news about them.

    Another way to look at this is, rather than looking at the political opposition, looking at the same-party support. My sense is that the left today not only don't oppose COVID restrictions, they actively support them. I'm not sure how true that was of the right and Bush-Cheney. Just going by myself and my family, I never spoke out against anything even though I commented on blogs at the time, but I was highly skeptical of Bush's strategies from the beginning even though I was a pretty cookie-cutter Republican in other ways at that time. The failure to find WMD caused me to change my voter registration. I certainly didn't feel that we needed the War on Terror in order to be safe.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Jtgw, @Jay Fink

    I was a strong Republican yet was very much against the Iraq war from the beginning, actually months before it started. I was a longtime admirer of Saddam Hussein. I appreciated how secular Iraq was. I was well aware 15 of the 19 911 terrorists were Saudi and none were Iraqi. I knew Bush and the neocons were playing a game of switcharoo and it sickened me how easily Americans fell for it, especially Republicans.

    Yet unlike you I didn’t consider changing parties. Part of the reasons is I disagree with Democrats on fiscal issues. Another reason is I realized the Democrat establishment were neolibs who also supported invading Iraq.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Jay Fink

    I changed from Republican to independent, not Democrat. I remember watching Colin Powell's Congressional testimony and thinking, "well, they must not be able to tell us the real intelligence on WMD because of security concerns". Then, when there was nothing, it became quite obvious. Also, when Wolfowitz was forced out but transferred to becoming president of the World Bank instead of having to retire in ignominy, I knew then what the real strategy behind Iraq had been.

  22. @Cloudbuster
    @Rosie

    There is also a partisan gap among men and women, and partisan gaps by race.

    Women are significantly more likely to be Democrats than men.

    Men are more likely to be Republicans than women.

    Blacks are monolithically Democrats and Hispanics are heavily so, and a minority of men are Republican, yet the roughly third of men who are Black and Hispanic and the more than half of men who are Democrat or Independent weren't able to drive the "Men" category up below second-lowest, so while Black and Hispanic men and Democratic men are possibly more concerned about COVID than White Republican men, it's not to a degree that's heavily influencing the results.

    Women show twice the net concern over COVID than men do, regardless of other factors and that indicates, along with what I said above, that women are the major drivers of COVID concern.

    If we could break the data down more finely, we might find some anomaly in the subgroups that would prove me wrong, but it's not the way to bet. My assertion was hardly "without evidence."

    I don't know what "comfort with activities" means, but it's almost certainly not the same as whatever was being asked in the data AE provides.

    Replies: @JR Ewing, @Rosie

    Not sure what she’s seeing. It doesn’t matter that other concurrent demographic groups are more closely sliced and divided.

    Everyone on that chart is either a man or a woman*. Across ALL of the concurrent demographic groups, women are twice as likely to be “concerned” as men are.

    Full stop.

    * Despite the wishes of a very vocal freak segment of society today, this statement is still objectively true and will be forever as long as there are genetic human beings on Earth.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    @JR Ewing


    Everyone on that chart is either a man or a woman*. Across ALL of the concurrent demographic groups, women are twice as likely to be “concerned” as men are.

    Full stop.
     
    You're not reading the graph correctly, and that is not consistent with other data I have seen on the subject, which indicates that the usual +10%, give or take holds, pattern holds. The following article is from March, when the lockdowns first started. Gender differences were quite modest, and especially so for the most draconian measure, school closures, with 58% of men and 52% of women supporting it.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-gender-poll/u-s-men-less-likely-to-heed-health-warnings-as-coronavirus-death-toll-mounts-reuters-poll-idUSKBN21E1C9

    It's one thing to say you're concerned about Covid. What kind of response you support is the real test of the extent 9f your concern. You are deliberately exaggerating the gender difference in Covid concern to promote your agenda.

    Here is more recent data indicating a 10 point difference in Republican men and women who are ready to return to normal activities Americans ready to return to normal activities.

    https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/321698/covid-responses-men-women.aspx

    Virtually no Democrats wanted to return to normal activities, with 5% of men as opposed to 3% of women saying the same.

    Yes, it's true that women are more likely to be Democrats, but that has nothing to do with covid hysteria. They're Democrats because they support the welfare state. They are also far less likely to view the media as hostile and mendacious, so why wouldn't they be more concerned?

    The divide here is clearly ideological/partisan.
  23. @PennTothal
    Speaking of " the control state to greatly expand its power and scope at the expense of the citizenry’s civil liberties." I would short airline stocks right now:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9069289/United-CDC-looks-death-man-flight-Florida.html

    Idiot with cough and shaking chills who knows he has COVID boards a United flight from Orlando to LA and dies mid-flight. His wife "shared he was in fact COVID positive and symptomatic for over a week.." once the cpr started.

    Interesting how the blame in the article is directed to the airline, whilst the blame in the comments is rightly aimed at the idiot passenger couple themselves. Either way, this incident could seriously threaten to increase calls to shut down domestic air travel.

    You can't have nice things in a country filled with low-IQ people with low sense of personal accountability.

    Replies: @Cloudbuster, @Soviet of Washington, @Bardon Kaldian, @Achmed E. Newman, @iffen, @PennTothal, @PennTothal

    You can’t have nice things in a country filled with low-IQ people with low sense of personal accountability.

    Not when low-IQ + 1 point people facilitate the misrule of the “really high IQ” self-serving misanthropes.

  24. @Rosie
    @Cloudbuster


    Among any racial, political, education level or age group, COVID concern must be heavily driven by women,
     
    Oh yes, it must be. No evidence needed.

    Replies: @Cloudbuster, @RoatanBill

    Life experience alone is enough to say Cloudbuster is correct, and if you were honest, you would agree.

    • Agree: JR Ewing
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @RoatanBill

    Women do tend to get hysterical more, by definition, but the real issue here is that America is fast approaching Menopause Nation, the term being coined by, and being an upcoming post title on, the Peak Stupidity blog .

    There are more people undergoing menopause than ever before in America. Now let's not be sexist, ageist, or speciest about it here. Menopause can affect all of us, men as well as women, the young and the old, cats, dogs, and gila monsters, just the same.

    , @Rosie
    @RoatanBill


    Life experience alone is enough to say Cloudbuster is correct, and if you were honest, you would agree.
     
    Another big fat lie courtesy of the manosphere chorus. Women are most certainly not the "main drivers of covid concern" as Cloudbuster claims, and it is obvious that this is so. The main drivers of Covid concern are the major media who blew it out of proportion as part of their effort to get rid of Trump.

    The most you can say is that more women believe it than men, but here again, it's not our fault men handed the media over to a hostile elite.

    Replies: @RoatanBill

  25. @RoatanBill
    @Rosie

    Life experience alone is enough to say Cloudbuster is correct, and if you were honest, you would agree.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Rosie

    Women do tend to get hysterical more, by definition, but the real issue here is that America is fast approaching Menopause Nation, the term being coined by, and being an upcoming post title on, the Peak Stupidity blog .

    There are more people undergoing menopause than ever before in America. Now let’s not be sexist, ageist, or speciest about it here. Menopause can affect all of us, men as well as women, the young and the old, cats, dogs, and gila monsters, just the same.

  26. @RoatanBill
    @Rosie

    Life experience alone is enough to say Cloudbuster is correct, and if you were honest, you would agree.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Rosie

    Life experience alone is enough to say Cloudbuster is correct, and if you were honest, you would agree.

    Another big fat lie courtesy of the manosphere chorus. Women are most certainly not the “main drivers of covid concern” as Cloudbuster claims, and it is obvious that this is so. The main drivers of Covid concern are the major media who blew it out of proportion as part of their effort to get rid of Trump.

    The most you can say is that more women believe it than men, but here again, it’s not our fault men handed the media over to a hostile elite.

    • LOL: radicalcenter
    • Replies: @RoatanBill
    @Rosie

    Long before Covid was a thing, there were and still are differences between the sexes. Women are more hysterical than men generally. Women are the Karens of the world and is why a Karen is the symbol. Face it, women are more prone to believe in nonsense and overreact to it. Any time you see some scold on TV that's called the cops on someone they don't like, it's a woman.

    The sociopaths in the society, more commonly known as the political class, are the source of the panic but women are the ground troops making sure everyone wears their face diaper. Women are the ones reacting out of fear and ignorance simply believing the bullshit shoveled out by the media and those frauds with titles.

    Life experience is all one needs to understand that women have a larger emotional range than most men and are more easily triggered into a state of frenzied activity that bypasses the logic and reason centers of the brain.

  27. @JR Ewing
    @Cloudbuster

    Not sure what she's seeing. It doesn't matter that other concurrent demographic groups are more closely sliced and divided.

    Everyone on that chart is either a man or a woman*. Across ALL of the concurrent demographic groups, women are twice as likely to be "concerned" as men are.

    Full stop.


    * Despite the wishes of a very vocal freak segment of society today, this statement is still objectively true and will be forever as long as there are genetic human beings on Earth.

    Replies: @Rosie

    Everyone on that chart is either a man or a woman*. Across ALL of the concurrent demographic groups, women are twice as likely to be “concerned” as men are.

    Full stop.

    You’re not reading the graph correctly, and that is not consistent with other data I have seen on the subject, which indicates that the usual +10%, give or take holds, pattern holds. The following article is from March, when the lockdowns first started. Gender differences were quite modest, and especially so for the most draconian measure, school closures, with 58% of men and 52% of women supporting it.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-gender-poll/u-s-men-less-likely-to-heed-health-warnings-as-coronavirus-death-toll-mounts-reuters-poll-idUSKBN21E1C9

    It’s one thing to say you’re concerned about Covid. What kind of response you support is the real test of the extent 9f your concern. You are deliberately exaggerating the gender difference in Covid concern to promote your agenda.

    Here is more recent data indicating a 10 point difference in Republican men and women who are ready to return to normal activities Americans ready to return to normal activities.

    https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/321698/covid-responses-men-women.aspx

    Virtually no Democrats wanted to return to normal activities, with 5% of men as opposed to 3% of women saying the same.

    Yes, it’s true that women are more likely to be Democrats, but that has nothing to do with covid hysteria. They’re Democrats because they support the welfare state. They are also far less likely to view the media as hostile and mendacious, so why wouldn’t they be more concerned?

    The divide here is clearly ideological/partisan.

  28. To encourage passing the “Patriot” Act, 9-11 needed American Anthrax.

    Two Dems, Leahy and Daschle, targeted.

    Balony Corony bringing in greater control, repression.

    Are Bill Krystal, Richard Perle, Dov Zakheim, all the Kagans, Saul Wolfowitz
    lining up for BC BS vaxine?

    5 dancing shlomos

  29. @Cloudbuster
    @Rosie

    There is also a partisan gap among men and women, and partisan gaps by race.

    Women are significantly more likely to be Democrats than men.

    Men are more likely to be Republicans than women.

    Blacks are monolithically Democrats and Hispanics are heavily so, and a minority of men are Republican, yet the roughly third of men who are Black and Hispanic and the more than half of men who are Democrat or Independent weren't able to drive the "Men" category up below second-lowest, so while Black and Hispanic men and Democratic men are possibly more concerned about COVID than White Republican men, it's not to a degree that's heavily influencing the results.

    Women show twice the net concern over COVID than men do, regardless of other factors and that indicates, along with what I said above, that women are the major drivers of COVID concern.

    If we could break the data down more finely, we might find some anomaly in the subgroups that would prove me wrong, but it's not the way to bet. My assertion was hardly "without evidence."

    I don't know what "comfort with activities" means, but it's almost certainly not the same as whatever was being asked in the data AE provides.

    Replies: @JR Ewing, @Rosie

    I don’t know what “comfort with activities” means, but it’s almost certainly not the same as whatever was being asked in the data AE provides.

    Indeed, it’s much more meaningful than that. It’s one thing to say you’re concerned. What sacrifices you are willing to make is the real question, and on that score, gender differences are modest.

    BTW, maybe it’s just a coincidence, but it sure seems like the people who demonize women voters are the same ones who hate welfare. I wonder why that might be?

  30. @Jay Fink
    @Chrisnonymous

    I was a strong Republican yet was very much against the Iraq war from the beginning, actually months before it started. I was a longtime admirer of Saddam Hussein. I appreciated how secular Iraq was. I was well aware 15 of the 19 911 terrorists were Saudi and none were Iraqi. I knew Bush and the neocons were playing a game of switcharoo and it sickened me how easily Americans fell for it, especially Republicans.

    Yet unlike you I didn't consider changing parties. Part of the reasons is I disagree with Democrats on fiscal issues. Another reason is I realized the Democrat establishment were neolibs who also supported invading Iraq.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    I changed from Republican to independent, not Democrat. I remember watching Colin Powell’s Congressional testimony and thinking, “well, they must not be able to tell us the real intelligence on WMD because of security concerns”. Then, when there was nothing, it became quite obvious. Also, when Wolfowitz was forced out but transferred to becoming president of the World Bank instead of having to retire in ignominy, I knew then what the real strategy behind Iraq had been.

  31. @Jtgw
    @Chrisnonymous

    I remember that era and for a time I was a Bush loving conservative supporter of the War on Terror, Iraq and the rest. I remember anti war conservatives like Pat Buchanan existing but being very marginal and certainly not expressing views of most of the conservative base. Usually if conservatives criticized Bush it came from an even more hawkish position Eg Bush was too soft on Muslims, should put all mosques under surveillance, should not try so hard to spare civilians in Afghanistan etc. You might dimly recall Ann Coulter calling for forcible mass conversion of Afghans to Christianity. Definitely in my recollection bulk of opposition to war on terror was from the left. Mainstream liberals went along with some of it, including even Iraq, but were first to withdraw support after Abu Ghraib revelations. Yeah sorry the idea that it was conservatives that were main opponents of militarism in those days just doesn’t fit with any of my recollection. If anyone can find solid evidence to contrary I’d be interested to see it.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    Yes, you correct on some points. Especially, I remember Ann Coulter’s comments as extreme and, I thought probably not serious. You can’t really force people to convert to anything. Even Communist Thought Reform in China was not permanent in its targets.

    Anyway, I am guilty for just referencing “the War on Terror” and lumping war and the surveillance together. There was definitely leftist opposition to Iraq–“blood for oil” (which was a wrong analysis by the way–Iraq was a neocon missionary war) and all that. However, I think there was less opposition to the surveillance state measures than to the wars from the left and also less enthusiasm on the right.

    The numbers Bill mentions suggest I am both right and wrong. Dissent from the Patriot Act occurred among Dems, but essentially the Patriot Act passed with support from the Dems. If there had been a more right/left split on the issue, perhaps there would have been more articulate opposition that would have changed some measures in the bill. Also instructive would be to see numbers on votes for Patriot Act renewal.

    Maybe I am just wrong, but my impression is still that–with regard to internal control measures–the 9/11 usurpation of freedoms was more bipartisan and had less enthusiasm from its supporters than the COVID usurpations, making the usurpations more fundamentally leftist/Democrat rather than one from the right and one from the left.

    • Replies: @Jtgw
    @Chrisnonymous

    It was definitely bipartisan but then I think it’s helpful to distinguish what establishment politicians support from what grassroots activists support. On internal controls I remember conservatives supporting them, though they generally wanted them to be more targeted at Muslims and Arabs and not be as strict on non Muslims, in the way that the Israel openly targets Muslims and Arabs over Jews. I do remember the “blood for oil” thing as being popular on the left; less common to hear about neocons except on the hard anti Zionist left. I also remember some concern about civil liberties on the left but to support your point there may have been as much concern that infringements be equally applied to all groups as over the infringements themselves. But certainly once Obama was in charge the anti war pro civil liberty left mostly evaporated.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

  32. @Chrisnonymous
    @Jtgw

    Yes, you correct on some points. Especially, I remember Ann Coulter's comments as extreme and, I thought probably not serious. You can't really force people to convert to anything. Even Communist Thought Reform in China was not permanent in its targets.

    Anyway, I am guilty for just referencing "the War on Terror" and lumping war and the surveillance together. There was definitely leftist opposition to Iraq--"blood for oil" (which was a wrong analysis by the way--Iraq was a neocon missionary war) and all that. However, I think there was less opposition to the surveillance state measures than to the wars from the left and also less enthusiasm on the right.

    The numbers Bill mentions suggest I am both right and wrong. Dissent from the Patriot Act occurred among Dems, but essentially the Patriot Act passed with support from the Dems. If there had been a more right/left split on the issue, perhaps there would have been more articulate opposition that would have changed some measures in the bill. Also instructive would be to see numbers on votes for Patriot Act renewal.

    Maybe I am just wrong, but my impression is still that--with regard to internal control measures--the 9/11 usurpation of freedoms was more bipartisan and had less enthusiasm from its supporters than the COVID usurpations, making the usurpations more fundamentally leftist/Democrat rather than one from the right and one from the left.

    Replies: @Jtgw

    It was definitely bipartisan but then I think it’s helpful to distinguish what establishment politicians support from what grassroots activists support. On internal controls I remember conservatives supporting them, though they generally wanted them to be more targeted at Muslims and Arabs and not be as strict on non Muslims, in the way that the Israel openly targets Muslims and Arabs over Jews. I do remember the “blood for oil” thing as being popular on the left; less common to hear about neocons except on the hard anti Zionist left. I also remember some concern about civil liberties on the left but to support your point there may have been as much concern that infringements be equally applied to all groups as over the infringements themselves. But certainly once Obama was in charge the anti war pro civil liberty left mostly evaporated.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Jtgw

    Basically, agree. Sorry my analysis is hampered by my poor memory.

  33. @Jtgw
    @Chrisnonymous

    It was definitely bipartisan but then I think it’s helpful to distinguish what establishment politicians support from what grassroots activists support. On internal controls I remember conservatives supporting them, though they generally wanted them to be more targeted at Muslims and Arabs and not be as strict on non Muslims, in the way that the Israel openly targets Muslims and Arabs over Jews. I do remember the “blood for oil” thing as being popular on the left; less common to hear about neocons except on the hard anti Zionist left. I also remember some concern about civil liberties on the left but to support your point there may have been as much concern that infringements be equally applied to all groups as over the infringements themselves. But certainly once Obama was in charge the anti war pro civil liberty left mostly evaporated.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    Basically, agree. Sorry my analysis is hampered by my poor memory.

  34. @Rosie
    @RoatanBill


    Life experience alone is enough to say Cloudbuster is correct, and if you were honest, you would agree.
     
    Another big fat lie courtesy of the manosphere chorus. Women are most certainly not the "main drivers of covid concern" as Cloudbuster claims, and it is obvious that this is so. The main drivers of Covid concern are the major media who blew it out of proportion as part of their effort to get rid of Trump.

    The most you can say is that more women believe it than men, but here again, it's not our fault men handed the media over to a hostile elite.

    Replies: @RoatanBill

    Long before Covid was a thing, there were and still are differences between the sexes. Women are more hysterical than men generally. Women are the Karens of the world and is why a Karen is the symbol. Face it, women are more prone to believe in nonsense and overreact to it. Any time you see some scold on TV that’s called the cops on someone they don’t like, it’s a woman.

    The sociopaths in the society, more commonly known as the political class, are the source of the panic but women are the ground troops making sure everyone wears their face diaper. Women are the ones reacting out of fear and ignorance simply believing the bullshit shoveled out by the media and those frauds with titles.

    Life experience is all one needs to understand that women have a larger emotional range than most men and are more easily triggered into a state of frenzied activity that bypasses the logic and reason centers of the brain.

  35. @PennTothal
    Speaking of " the control state to greatly expand its power and scope at the expense of the citizenry’s civil liberties." I would short airline stocks right now:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9069289/United-CDC-looks-death-man-flight-Florida.html

    Idiot with cough and shaking chills who knows he has COVID boards a United flight from Orlando to LA and dies mid-flight. His wife "shared he was in fact COVID positive and symptomatic for over a week.." once the cpr started.

    Interesting how the blame in the article is directed to the airline, whilst the blame in the comments is rightly aimed at the idiot passenger couple themselves. Either way, this incident could seriously threaten to increase calls to shut down domestic air travel.

    You can't have nice things in a country filled with low-IQ people with low sense of personal accountability.

    Replies: @Cloudbuster, @Soviet of Washington, @Bardon Kaldian, @Achmed E. Newman, @iffen, @PennTothal, @PennTothal

    The name of the man who boarded the plane with COVID and then died mid-flight is now public:

    As expected, given the lack of MSM indignation towards him and his wife’s irresponsible behavior, he is other than white:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/man-died-united-flight-confirmed-covid-19-2020-12

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @PennTothal


    As expected, given the lack of MSM indignation towards him and his wife’s irresponsible behavior, he is other than white:
     
    Our diversity is our greatest strength.
  36. @PennTothal
    Speaking of " the control state to greatly expand its power and scope at the expense of the citizenry’s civil liberties." I would short airline stocks right now:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9069289/United-CDC-looks-death-man-flight-Florida.html

    Idiot with cough and shaking chills who knows he has COVID boards a United flight from Orlando to LA and dies mid-flight. His wife "shared he was in fact COVID positive and symptomatic for over a week.." once the cpr started.

    Interesting how the blame in the article is directed to the airline, whilst the blame in the comments is rightly aimed at the idiot passenger couple themselves. Either way, this incident could seriously threaten to increase calls to shut down domestic air travel.

    You can't have nice things in a country filled with low-IQ people with low sense of personal accountability.

    Replies: @Cloudbuster, @Soviet of Washington, @Bardon Kaldian, @Achmed E. Newman, @iffen, @PennTothal, @PennTothal

    The name of the man who boarded the plane with COVID and then died mid-flight is now public:

    As expected, given the lack of MSM indignation towards him and his wife’s irresponsible behavior, he is other-than -white:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/man-died-united-flight-confirmed-covid-19-2020-12

  37. One of the big practical problems I see with enforcing race based nationalism in an age of global travel: very few men in *any* culture are going to choose “no wife” over “foreign wife”.

    And they should not be asked to.

    Criminals, druggies, psychos, retards, layabouts–no wife is fine. In fact, a healthy society takes measures to discourage breeding by those folks.

    But a materially productive net-taxpaying men should not have difficulty finding a wife and having a family. If he does the “system” is broken–immigration, ideology, education, media, incentives, divorce/custody law, feminism, messaging to women, women’s behavior; something, probably many things. The nation is failing at it’s most basic task–reproducing itself.

    Patriarchy of some sort seems to be required for a nation to maintain itself. When that goes, everything goes. It’s nominally possible to continue with a patriarchy of sane males continuing to have families with local and foreign women, propagating the nation’s culture. But the HBD constraint means that does not really work, however comfortable for one generation. (It won’t work with Korea.)

    So the core problem of national will, ideology, media messaging, the resulting behavior of women must be addressed for a nation to survive.

  38. @PennTothal
    @PennTothal

    The name of the man who boarded the plane with COVID and then died mid-flight is now public:

    As expected, given the lack of MSM indignation towards him and his wife's irresponsible behavior, he is other than white:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/man-died-united-flight-confirmed-covid-19-2020-12

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    As expected, given the lack of MSM indignation towards him and his wife’s irresponsible behavior, he is other than white:

    Our diversity is our greatest strength.

  39. @Chrisnonymous

    fter 9/11, Republican fears provided the pretense that allowed the surveillance state to greatly expand its power and scope at the expense of the citizenry’s civil liberties.
     
    Do you have survey data to support that? I think it is probably wrong, although I don't remember the politics of passing the Patriot Act very well. I don't remember much controversy or pushback from anyone. My guess is that it was, again, Democrat fears that allowed that surveillance expansion. Rather than opposing Bush-Cheney, the Democrats at that time supported them... because they were afraid.

    Replies: @Jtgw, @Bill, @Audacious Epigone

    Here’s one with support for extending the Patriot Act by partisan affiliation:

    Democrats — 43%
    Republicans — 80%
    Independents — 54%

    That’s how I remember it. Democrats were split, Republicans were all for the surveillance state.

    Now Republicans are split, Democrats are all for the lockdown state.

    Historical comparisons can of course be stretched too far but I don’t think this is an unreasonable one.

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