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The following graph shows, by partisan affiliation, whether voter fraud (too many people voting) or voter suppression (too few people voting) is perceived to be a bigger concern. The results are unsurprising:

The right needs to come to terms with the fact that they are no longer the silent majority. They are the persecuted minority–and becoming more so by the day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B9ZOslZBDw

They would be wise to get out while they still can.

 
• Category: Culture/Society, Ideology • Tags: Immigration, Politics, Polling 
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  1. Get out – to where? This is the land of my birth. Where am I supposed to go to?

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @MattinLA

    The vast majority of Americans are descended from people who chose to leave their land of origin. Tens of millions of people in the US are people who chose to leave their homelands to come here.

    , @David
    @MattinLA

    Please move to Vermont. We could make a stand here, not in a violent way but politically.

    Replies: @anon, @Audacious Epigone

  2. @MattinLA
    Get out - to where? This is the land of my birth. Where am I supposed to go to?

    Replies: @AndrewR, @David

    The vast majority of Americans are descended from people who chose to leave their land of origin. Tens of millions of people in the US are people who chose to leave their homelands to come here.

    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
  3. @MattinLA
    Get out - to where? This is the land of my birth. Where am I supposed to go to?

    Replies: @AndrewR, @David

    Please move to Vermont. We could make a stand here, not in a violent way but politically.

    • Replies: @anon
    @David

    Vermont?

    https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2021/03/13/vermont-committee-approves-weakened-carry-ban-bill-n42102

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @David

    Why not New Hampshire?

    Replies: @David

  4. Those people in the boat are your future allies, not your bitchy white niece

    • Agree: JohnPlywood
    • Replies: @neutral
    @indocon

    Allies against who?

    , @JohnPlywood
    @indocon

    Where all the Mexican women at?

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic

  5. @indocon
    Those people in the boat are your future allies, not your bitchy white niece

    Replies: @neutral, @JohnPlywood

    Allies against who?

  6. @David
    @MattinLA

    Please move to Vermont. We could make a stand here, not in a violent way but politically.

    Replies: @anon, @Audacious Epigone

  7. @indocon
    Those people in the boat are your future allies, not your bitchy white niece

    Replies: @neutral, @JohnPlywood

    Where all the Mexican women at?

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    @JohnPlywood

    Here ya go.

    Dumbass.

    https://i.imgur.com/jlSpzQp.jpg

    Replies: @Jim Christian, @JohnPlywood

  8. @JohnPlywood
    @indocon

    Where all the Mexican women at?

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic

    Here ya go.

    Dumbass.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    Ew!

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country

    , @JohnPlywood
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    And whaddya know, the little one on the far right in blue is already preparing to raise the white son your bitchy white niece will not.

    These are your future relatives. It's gonna hit you so fast you won't know what to think.

  9. “The right needs to come to terms with the fact that they are no longer the silent majority. They are the persecuted minority–and becoming more so by the day”.

    I noticed during this last election that most Trump supporters were overconfident (unlike 2016) and didn’t have a grasp on how many Democrats are out there. They didn’t have a feel for what’s going on in society as a whole. It was the most delusional I have ever seen the right before. Their social circle and social media is MAGA so they assume the whole country is.

    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
    @Jay Fink

    Let's face it, the whole Donald Trump presidency thing was like having a 24 hour fentanyl+ketamine IV drip for Republicans. Everything was provided for them by Trump: emotional comfort, comic relief, and a false sense of hope for a future that was never going to come to them.

    They actually believed an effective border wall was ever going to be constructed.

    They actually believed Donald would somehow make industrial activity possible in the USA - as if that was even desirable.

    They actually believed he was going to sabotage the entire US credit-consumer economy, the lifeline of all Americans, by cutting taxes and reducing spending.

    They actually believed he would spur an increase in the birthrate, reduce gun control, or end the drug+alcohol abuse and mental illness pandemic in North America.

    They still believe these things, and that's why they still cling to this fantasy that the election was stolen. They have to continue believing these things, because if they tear the needle out of their arm cold turkey it will just kill them.

    Only when we completely abstain from the consumption of perception-altering food, drugs, and other poisons can we be given the assumption of a correct judgment. That includes, among other things, any belief in a deity of any kind.

    , @dfordoom
    @Jay Fink


    I noticed during this last election that most Trump supporters were overconfident (unlike 2016) and didn’t have a grasp on how many Democrats are out there. They didn’t have a feel for what’s going on in society as a whole. It was the most delusional I have ever seen the right before. Their social circle and social media is MAGA so they assume the whole country is.
     
    Yes, the delusional nature of the MAGA Hat Brigade and other far rightists is something I've been noticing with alarm for quite a while. The non-mainstream right is spiralling more and more into a complete fantasy world.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @Jay Fink

  10. Voter fraud or voter suppression the larger problem?

    If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers.
    Thomas Pynchon

    Voting is the problem. The very idea of voting is stupid once the scale is as large and diverse as the US.

    Voting always means that a portion of the population doesn’t get what it wants. Today, we have a roughly 50%-50% split in what people want in just about any significant category. Putting things to a vote therefore guarantees that half the population gets the opposite of what they want.

    Ask yourself if that is any way to go forward, by pissing off half the country.

    Voting attempts to answer a question. Stop asking the question as though it requires one answer and let each individual answer for himself. Devolve gov’t back to basics, or better yet get rid of it so there is true democracy when each individual is his own sovereign – anarchism.

    • Agree: Ralph B. Seymour
    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @RoatanBill


    Voting always means that a portion of the population doesn’t get what it wants. Today, we have a roughly 50%-50% split in what people want in just about any significant category. Putting things to a vote therefore guarantees that half the population gets the opposite of what they want.
     
    That's true. Even when democracy works the way it's supposed to work it's an oppressive system. It's the tyranny of the majority.

    Democracy tends naturally towards tyranny.

    The real evil is the two-party winner-take-all system.

    Proportional representation would at least be an improvement, with the proviso that Cabinet posts should also be allocated on a proportional representation basis - if your party gets 25% of the vote it should get 25% of the Cabinet posts.
  11. @The Anti-Gnostic
    @JohnPlywood

    Here ya go.

    Dumbass.

    https://i.imgur.com/jlSpzQp.jpg

    Replies: @Jim Christian, @JohnPlywood

    Ew!

    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @Jim Christian

    Trust me. Those are the better ones. Ew is right.

  12. @Jay Fink
    "The right needs to come to terms with the fact that they are no longer the silent majority. They are the persecuted minority–and becoming more so by the day".

    I noticed during this last election that most Trump supporters were overconfident (unlike 2016) and didn't have a grasp on how many Democrats are out there. They didn't have a feel for what's going on in society as a whole. It was the most delusional I have ever seen the right before. Their social circle and social media is MAGA so they assume the whole country is.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @dfordoom

    Let’s face it, the whole Donald Trump presidency thing was like having a 24 hour fentanyl+ketamine IV drip for Republicans. Everything was provided for them by Trump: emotional comfort, comic relief, and a false sense of hope for a future that was never going to come to them.

    They actually believed an effective border wall was ever going to be constructed.

    They actually believed Donald would somehow make industrial activity possible in the USA – as if that was even desirable.

    They actually believed he was going to sabotage the entire US credit-consumer economy, the lifeline of all Americans, by cutting taxes and reducing spending.

    They actually believed he would spur an increase in the birthrate, reduce gun control, or end the drug+alcohol abuse and mental illness pandemic in North America.

    They still believe these things, and that’s why they still cling to this fantasy that the election was stolen. They have to continue believing these things, because if they tear the needle out of their arm cold turkey it will just kill them.

    Only when we completely abstain from the consumption of perception-altering food, drugs, and other poisons can we be given the assumption of a correct judgment. That includes, among other things, any belief in a deity of any kind.

    • Thanks: Jay Fink
  13. @The Anti-Gnostic
    @JohnPlywood

    Here ya go.

    Dumbass.

    https://i.imgur.com/jlSpzQp.jpg

    Replies: @Jim Christian, @JohnPlywood

    And whaddya know, the little one on the far right in blue is already preparing to raise the white son your bitchy white niece will not.

    These are your future relatives. It’s gonna hit you so fast you won’t know what to think.

  14. “Democrats dig democracy.” They sure do. There is no other system of governing that is so easily manipulated by democrats for the purpose of carrying out their criminal schemes against most Americans.

  15. @Jim Christian
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    Ew!

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Trust me. Those are the better ones. Ew is right.

  16. @Jay Fink
    "The right needs to come to terms with the fact that they are no longer the silent majority. They are the persecuted minority–and becoming more so by the day".

    I noticed during this last election that most Trump supporters were overconfident (unlike 2016) and didn't have a grasp on how many Democrats are out there. They didn't have a feel for what's going on in society as a whole. It was the most delusional I have ever seen the right before. Their social circle and social media is MAGA so they assume the whole country is.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @dfordoom

    I noticed during this last election that most Trump supporters were overconfident (unlike 2016) and didn’t have a grasp on how many Democrats are out there. They didn’t have a feel for what’s going on in society as a whole. It was the most delusional I have ever seen the right before. Their social circle and social media is MAGA so they assume the whole country is.

    Yes, the delusional nature of the MAGA Hat Brigade and other far rightists is something I’ve been noticing with alarm for quite a while. The non-mainstream right is spiralling more and more into a complete fantasy world.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @dfordoom


    Yes, the delusional nature of the MAGA Hat Brigade and other far rightists is something I’ve been noticing with alarm for quite a while. The non-mainstream right is spiralling more and more into a complete fantasy world.
     
    Perhaps. Who? How?

    Suppose that I wrote, “The trouble with the mountain-combat brigade and other cardiovascular surgeons is something I’ve been noticing with alarm for quite a while.” Would you not suspect that I was having trouble with my categories?

    These are reasonable questions. If you will not answer them, and you will not respond to specific, concrete evidence politely presented to the contrary, then what are we to conclude? Because it is impossible to distinguish in your taxonomy between reasonable persons who have unapproved illiberal thoughts and unreasonable persons who are at best useless to society.

    Who? How?

    And what of the simplest, commonest strain of far rightism, whose principal characteristic is that one believes that which his great grandfather believed?

    I think that you have a valid criticism, but (to borrow a dfordoomism) that your categories are very very poor.
    , @Jay Fink
    @dfordoom

    The far right might be delusional but I like them and agree with them. When I say they are delusional it has nothing to do with policy. It's specifically that they think they are the majority and they underestimate how powerful and popular the left is.

    The mainstream right is delusional in a different way. They think their non-populist, tax cutting, Chamber of Commerce agenda has a big following. They believe MAGA was an annoying flukey irritation and the GOP is going back to the neocon Bush days. They could not be more wrong and have no clue on how small their niche is.

    Democrats certainly can be delusional too. They are the easiest to brainwash/program. A prime example is how many fell for "Russia Russia Russia".

    Replies: @dfordoom, @dfordoom

  17. @RoatanBill
    Voter fraud or voter suppression the larger problem?

    If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers.
    Thomas Pynchon


    Voting is the problem. The very idea of voting is stupid once the scale is as large and diverse as the US.

    Voting always means that a portion of the population doesn't get what it wants. Today, we have a roughly 50%-50% split in what people want in just about any significant category. Putting things to a vote therefore guarantees that half the population gets the opposite of what they want.

    Ask yourself if that is any way to go forward, by pissing off half the country.

    Voting attempts to answer a question. Stop asking the question as though it requires one answer and let each individual answer for himself. Devolve gov't back to basics, or better yet get rid of it so there is true democracy when each individual is his own sovereign - anarchism.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    Voting always means that a portion of the population doesn’t get what it wants. Today, we have a roughly 50%-50% split in what people want in just about any significant category. Putting things to a vote therefore guarantees that half the population gets the opposite of what they want.

    That’s true. Even when democracy works the way it’s supposed to work it’s an oppressive system. It’s the tyranny of the majority.

    Democracy tends naturally towards tyranny.

    The real evil is the two-party winner-take-all system.

    Proportional representation would at least be an improvement, with the proviso that Cabinet posts should also be allocated on a proportional representation basis – if your party gets 25% of the vote it should get 25% of the Cabinet posts.

  18. @dfordoom
    @Jay Fink


    I noticed during this last election that most Trump supporters were overconfident (unlike 2016) and didn’t have a grasp on how many Democrats are out there. They didn’t have a feel for what’s going on in society as a whole. It was the most delusional I have ever seen the right before. Their social circle and social media is MAGA so they assume the whole country is.
     
    Yes, the delusional nature of the MAGA Hat Brigade and other far rightists is something I've been noticing with alarm for quite a while. The non-mainstream right is spiralling more and more into a complete fantasy world.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @Jay Fink

    Yes, the delusional nature of the MAGA Hat Brigade and other far rightists is something I’ve been noticing with alarm for quite a while. The non-mainstream right is spiralling more and more into a complete fantasy world.

    Perhaps. Who? How?

    Suppose that I wrote, “The trouble with the mountain-combat brigade and other cardiovascular surgeons is something I’ve been noticing with alarm for quite a while.” Would you not suspect that I was having trouble with my categories?

    These are reasonable questions. If you will not answer them, and you will not respond to specific, concrete evidence politely presented to the contrary, then what are we to conclude? Because it is impossible to distinguish in your taxonomy between reasonable persons who have unapproved illiberal thoughts and unreasonable persons who are at best useless to society.

    Who? How?

    And what of the simplest, commonest strain of far rightism, whose principal characteristic is that one believes that which his great grandfather believed?

    I think that you have a valid criticism, but (to borrow a dfordoomism) that your categories are very very poor.

  19. @dfordoom
    @Jay Fink


    I noticed during this last election that most Trump supporters were overconfident (unlike 2016) and didn’t have a grasp on how many Democrats are out there. They didn’t have a feel for what’s going on in society as a whole. It was the most delusional I have ever seen the right before. Their social circle and social media is MAGA so they assume the whole country is.
     
    Yes, the delusional nature of the MAGA Hat Brigade and other far rightists is something I've been noticing with alarm for quite a while. The non-mainstream right is spiralling more and more into a complete fantasy world.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @Jay Fink

    The far right might be delusional but I like them and agree with them. When I say they are delusional it has nothing to do with policy. It’s specifically that they think they are the majority and they underestimate how powerful and popular the left is.

    The mainstream right is delusional in a different way. They think their non-populist, tax cutting, Chamber of Commerce agenda has a big following. They believe MAGA was an annoying flukey irritation and the GOP is going back to the neocon Bush days. They could not be more wrong and have no clue on how small their niche is.

    Democrats certainly can be delusional too. They are the easiest to brainwash/program. A prime example is how many fell for “Russia Russia Russia”.

    • Agree: V. K. Ovelund
    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Jay Fink


    The far right might be delusional but I like them and agree with them. When I say they are delusional it has nothing to do with policy. It’s specifically that they think they are the majority and they underestimate how powerful and popular the left is.
     
    There's no question that they're delusional in thinking they're the majority. But I think that part of their problem is that they're deluded in thinking that many of the policies they'd like to see enacted are ever going to have any significant level of support.

    They also don't seem to realise just how much harm their lunatic fringe is doing to their cause. The Cultural Left doesn't have that problem - they have the media on their side.

    What the far right hasn't been very good at is choosing political strategies that might actually be achievable. There's too much of an inclination to push good ideas to extremes, at which point they're no longer good ideas and they're simply unachievable.
    , @dfordoom
    @Jay Fink


    The far right might be delusional but I like them and agree with them.
     
    I agree with moderate versions of some of their positions.

    But then I agree with moderate versions of some of the positions of liberals.

    Replies: @Jay Fink

  20. @Jay Fink
    @dfordoom

    The far right might be delusional but I like them and agree with them. When I say they are delusional it has nothing to do with policy. It's specifically that they think they are the majority and they underestimate how powerful and popular the left is.

    The mainstream right is delusional in a different way. They think their non-populist, tax cutting, Chamber of Commerce agenda has a big following. They believe MAGA was an annoying flukey irritation and the GOP is going back to the neocon Bush days. They could not be more wrong and have no clue on how small their niche is.

    Democrats certainly can be delusional too. They are the easiest to brainwash/program. A prime example is how many fell for "Russia Russia Russia".

    Replies: @dfordoom, @dfordoom

    The far right might be delusional but I like them and agree with them. When I say they are delusional it has nothing to do with policy. It’s specifically that they think they are the majority and they underestimate how powerful and popular the left is.

    There’s no question that they’re delusional in thinking they’re the majority. But I think that part of their problem is that they’re deluded in thinking that many of the policies they’d like to see enacted are ever going to have any significant level of support.

    They also don’t seem to realise just how much harm their lunatic fringe is doing to their cause. The Cultural Left doesn’t have that problem – they have the media on their side.

    What the far right hasn’t been very good at is choosing political strategies that might actually be achievable. There’s too much of an inclination to push good ideas to extremes, at which point they’re no longer good ideas and they’re simply unachievable.

  21. @Jay Fink
    @dfordoom

    The far right might be delusional but I like them and agree with them. When I say they are delusional it has nothing to do with policy. It's specifically that they think they are the majority and they underestimate how powerful and popular the left is.

    The mainstream right is delusional in a different way. They think their non-populist, tax cutting, Chamber of Commerce agenda has a big following. They believe MAGA was an annoying flukey irritation and the GOP is going back to the neocon Bush days. They could not be more wrong and have no clue on how small their niche is.

    Democrats certainly can be delusional too. They are the easiest to brainwash/program. A prime example is how many fell for "Russia Russia Russia".

    Replies: @dfordoom, @dfordoom

    The far right might be delusional but I like them and agree with them.

    I agree with moderate versions of some of their positions.

    But then I agree with moderate versions of some of the positions of liberals.

    • Replies: @Jay Fink
    @dfordoom

    I might agree. The problem is when I see the word moderate I think of my worst politicians, the neocon/ neolib types such as the late John McCain. Maybe your version of moderate is more attractive to me than the GOP establishment version which is decidedly anti-populist.

    Replies: @dfordoom

  22. @dfordoom
    @Jay Fink


    The far right might be delusional but I like them and agree with them.
     
    I agree with moderate versions of some of their positions.

    But then I agree with moderate versions of some of the positions of liberals.

    Replies: @Jay Fink

    I might agree. The problem is when I see the word moderate I think of my worst politicians, the neocon/ neolib types such as the late John McCain. Maybe your version of moderate is more attractive to me than the GOP establishment version which is decidedly anti-populist.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Jay Fink


    The problem is when I see the word moderate I think of my worst politicians, the neocon/ neolib types such as the late John McCain.
     
    I see John McCain types as extremist neocons/neolibs. I certainly wouldn't see McCain as a moderate.

    Also some politicians present themselves as moderates when they're just opportunists. Joe Biden sold himself to voters as a moderate. I'd see him as a simply opportunist.
  23. @Jay Fink
    @dfordoom

    I might agree. The problem is when I see the word moderate I think of my worst politicians, the neocon/ neolib types such as the late John McCain. Maybe your version of moderate is more attractive to me than the GOP establishment version which is decidedly anti-populist.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    The problem is when I see the word moderate I think of my worst politicians, the neocon/ neolib types such as the late John McCain.

    I see John McCain types as extremist neocons/neolibs. I certainly wouldn’t see McCain as a moderate.

    Also some politicians present themselves as moderates when they’re just opportunists. Joe Biden sold himself to voters as a moderate. I’d see him as a simply opportunist.

  24. @David
    @MattinLA

    Please move to Vermont. We could make a stand here, not in a violent way but politically.

    Replies: @anon, @Audacious Epigone

    Why not New Hampshire?

    • Replies: @David
    @Audacious Epigone

    I live in Vermont and I'd rather not move. But I'd settle for both. Vermont's population makes it a little less difficult to shift politically, but very little because New Hampshire is closer to the tipping point.

  25. @Audacious Epigone
    @David

    Why not New Hampshire?

    Replies: @David

    I live in Vermont and I’d rather not move. But I’d settle for both. Vermont’s population makes it a little less difficult to shift politically, but very little because New Hampshire is closer to the tipping point.

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