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Confidence in the Press, by Political Orientation Over Time
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Until Donald Trump temporarily renewed the left’s faith in the corporate media, the integrity trajectory was down, down, down for the merchants of mendacity:

The media’s knob-slobbering, ring-kissing, bootlicking deference to and running interference for the Biden administration isn’t going to sustain liberals in the same way their acrimony towards Trump did. That blue line will stay just above the surface in the 2020 data set to be released this Spring, but in the subsequent iteration of the survey it will come crashing back down.

There are a lot of disheartening trends to contend with in modern America, but this is one of the good ones. Could the Iraq Attaq have happened today? Twitter and Facebook would’ve tried like hell to silence people pointing out all the absurdities and impossibilities in the claims that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. The sieve would’ve been leaky, very leaky. Judith Miller and her colleagues at other major newspapers would try to manufacture bipartisan consent but instead of the letters editor throwing reader reactions in the trash, the journos would be brutally ratioed all across cyberspace. Maybe the warfare state could manage a few airstrikes, but a ground invasion and occupation at anything like the scope of 2003 is unthinkable now, and a big reason for that is the public’s collapsed trust of the media.

General Social Survey variables used: CONPRESS, YEAR, POLVIEWS(1-3)(4)(5-7)

 
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  1. anon[189] • Disclaimer says:

    The media’s knob-slobbering, ring-kissing, bootlicking deference to and running interference for the Biden administration isn’t going to sustain liberals in the same way their acrimony towards Trump did.

    It is too soon to tell. Truly, it is. I have neighbors and other people around with “Hate Has No Home Here” signs who totally live in the bubble; they listen to “Morning Edition”, “Fresh Air” and “All Things Considered”; they read the NY Times, the Atlantic, Nation, etc.; some view Rachel Maddow and Don Lemon and the PBS News Hour. They consider the mainstream press to be bold truth-tellers, not bootlickers; they are firmly behind defending Bi-den and don’t consider anything to be a coverup…now. Two years ago they regarded the border crisis as ‘complicated’ but now it’s simple. Kids in cages? No, that was Trump! Not happening now! If it is, there’s some kind of mistake! Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

    Last year’s riots peaceful protest events didn’t ding their faith in the revealed Narrative at all. To be honest, I am not sure what could actually dissuade their total trust in the MSM. Not sure at all.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @anon


    To be honest, I am not sure what could actually dissuade their total trust in the MSM. Not sure at all.
     
    Right. Your neighbors sound like my co-workers. I think the issue is that one's perspective on the MSM has become a signal of political beliefs, a social signal. The imperatives of social signaling are almost impossible to overcome for those inside the necessitating bubble.

    Replies: @John Johnson

    , @My SIMPLE Pseudonymic Handle
    @anon

    The only thing that would actually dissuade their total trust in the MSM would be if they did a total 180 and started knob-slobbering, ring-kissing, and giving bootlicking deference to and running interference for Republicans and Conservatives.

    But, who knows. People like that are extremely pliable and easily brainwashed so the cognitive dissonance wouldn't trip them up one little bit. They'd jump the fence easily without skipping a heartbeat. These are the type of people that expect others to tell them how to think and what to believe.

    I'm reminded of those "Man on the Street" interviews where they query pedestrians about which politician they think uttered a specific quote. When they think the quote is from a Republican or a Conservative the look on their face(s) is priceless when it's revealed that they were quotes from Obama or some other Democrat.

    , @MattinLA
    @anon

    This is my 80 year old mother. The sign in the front yard, Rachel Maddow, everything. Inexplicable. Like some sort of brain virus that has metastasized.

    , @Corvinus
    @anon

    YOU live in that same bubble, friend.

    Increasingly, we are subject to falling prey to confirmation bias. People do it instinctively when confronted with attitude-inconsistent information. When someone attempts to inform them of their misconceptions, rather than take it under advisement, it “backfires”, which in effect makes them less skeptical of what they believe in, since obviously the other side is rife with their own false impressions. Thus, one continues to see their own position as “true and proper”. Of course, the argument stems from what is and what is not a misconception, whether it be “race realism” or “white privilege”, which ends up being a feedback loop.

    It is virtually impossible to argue with those people who cling on this “Fake New” or “the media always lies” meme. Any fact brought brought into an argument, they immediately attack the SOURCE, rather than the substance. Thus, it is easy to deny there is ANY evidence at all. This phenomenon has been brewing for a long time (thanks, Trump :)), and it has reached a critical mass at our point in world history. Unfortunately, this leads more people to become ignorant by facilitating echo chambers. So the mentality of "Fake News/the media always lies" is EXACTLY THE SAME as those who spout off how “Jewish run media conglomerates control the narrative” since a person filters anything that dares to disrupt their world view.

    There is an HbD inspired explanation for being duped. We as a species have this impulsive cognition-–the seat of emotion, of sense of self, of phobias, and of herding behavior. The limbic system of the brain has its neurons fire faster and with greater amplitude than in the cerebral cortex, so it literally drowns out rational mindedness. There are a myriad of examples that this snap-decision system is controlling what we think.

    Belief comes first, with our biases are held in the brain immediately above the brainstem, and they are the central control room for everything coming into the brain. Nothing will pass these filters, so it is virtually essentially impossible to “change someone’s mind” via persuasion. A person's filters have to fall first. Otherwise, they will simply go into shoot the messenger mode when, for example, WaPO and NYT are used as sources. There was an emotional hypostasis to it that TRIGGERED in their brain an endorphin rush of self-righteousness.

    As a counter, here is the advice of Ron Unz…


    I apply the same historical methods I did in my academic journal articles back in the 1980’s. You analyze the likely reliability of the raw information presented, look for confirming or refuting evidence, and then draw your own plausible conclusions…On a more serious note, many of my articles very heavily cite various MSM sources, so why would I do that if I believed they were always lying?”
     

    Replies: @neutral, @anon, @Audacious Epigone

    , @anonymous
    @anon

    You must live in my neighborhood and work where I do because I have the exact same experience. These people eat, sleep, and breathe the corporate media. Telling them that Anderson Cooper or Charles Blow might just possibly be yanking their chain once in a while would be like telling a medieval peasant that god and Jesus don't really exist.

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @anon

    A decade ago before the podcast revolution rendered corporate media a waste of time for anyone with an IQ above room temperature, I'd listen to All Things Considered. Total misnomer. Nothing outside the left-liberal take was ever considered.

  2. On the contrary, that sharp rise of the blue line shows, terrifyingly, how easily and quickly more than half of our public is manipulated. Their cohort is growing, while ours is shrinking.

    Speaking of confidence, AE, in this instance, sure has a lot of it in the American public.

    I’m not sure why.

    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @MattinLA
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Precisely. The insane lies they've gotten away with about this phony "plague" are a million times worse than those uttered during the Iraq war. And the damage incalculably worse. We are on the verge of full scale communism. If media skepticism was some sort of game changer, we wouldn't be in this situation. I think we are past the stage where wry comments and dry irony can save us. Physical and emotional courage, wrath, action, and bullets are the only things that will rescue us now.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

  3. @Buzz Mohawk
    On the contrary, that sharp rise of the blue line shows, terrifyingly, how easily and quickly more than half of our public is manipulated. Their cohort is growing, while ours is shrinking.

    Speaking of confidence, AE, in this instance, sure has a lot of it in the American public.

    I'm not sure why.


    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/03/Race_IQ_Sketch_OrderFlipped.PNG/640px-Race_IQ_Sketch_OrderFlipped.PNG

    Replies: @MattinLA

    Precisely. The insane lies they’ve gotten away with about this phony “plague” are a million times worse than those uttered during the Iraq war. And the damage incalculably worse. We are on the verge of full scale communism. If media skepticism was some sort of game changer, we wouldn’t be in this situation. I think we are past the stage where wry comments and dry irony can save us. Physical and emotional courage, wrath, action, and bullets are the only things that will rescue us now.

    • Agree: Catdog
    • Troll: Supply and Demand
    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @MattinLA


    Physical and emotional courage, wrath, action, and bullets are the only things that will rescue us now.
     
    I do not say that I agree, but your fighting spirit is necessary and laudable.

    It will be objected, “But if we fight, then won't the state crush us?” Such an objection however may be conditioned more on 1970s-style television action-dramas than on reality. Yes, of course, if you and your band of militia brothers tie red, white and blue bandanas on your foreheads, grab your AR-15s and roll, then the next sound you hear won't be swelling theme music like on TV. It will be a sheriff's deputy reading you your Miranda rights.

    Notwithstanding, we are never going to wring concessions from a system that believes that it has nothing physically to fear by oppressing us.

    Whatever one thinks of negroes, negroes have something significant to teach the rest of us. Negroes win concessions as a race because they are physically feared—which is stupid if you think about it. Whites are far more capable of effective group violence.

    I am not getting at any very precise point except that the fighting spirit you offer is indispensable. One cannot do without it.

    Replies: @Realist, @AndrewR

  4. I don’t see that liberal line going down, it will keep going up. Think of the Russia Trump spy narratives as the kind of shit that liberals are willing to believe.

  5. I think the 2003 invasion of Iraq is not a useful analogy. I, for example, was in favor of toppling Saddam’s regime whether he had WMDs or not. That the Bush Administration conjured up WMDs as a casus belli was unnecessary and stupid absent incontrovertible proof which it did not have.

    Coming little more than a year after 9/11 the American public was eager to make someone pay a price and Saddam Hussein was both convenient and worthy of the role. For the legal justification there was his violations of the 1990 Ceasefire Agreement that left this thug in power.

    There was never any reason to occupy Iraq other than the idiot Bush’s dream of creating a Switzerland on the Euphrates. Send the army in. Chase Saddam out and go home. That worked too. The US looked 10 feet tall such that Moammar Khadafy got religion and turned his actual WMDs over to the Brits and decided to become Silvio Berlusconi’s BFF ( for all the good it did him a decade later )

    • Disagree: Nodwink
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @unit472

    Agree. And so did Henry Kissinger.


    ( for all the good it did him a decade later )
     
    That was probably the biggest geostrategic blunder of the last generation and certainly the biggest nuclear containment blunder since the Rosenbergs. Obama's and Hillary's pointless and gratuitous war against Libya in order to show that lefties could make war too not only destroyed the cooperative government of a strategic country, it also served notice to every second- and third-tier power that the only sure way to prevent an arbitrary attack by the US is to make sure you have WMDs. None will be foolish enough to give up their WMD programs anymore.
  6. The media’s knob-slobbering, ring-kissing, bootlicking deference to and running interference for the Biden administration isn’t going to sustain liberals in the same way their acrimony towards Trump did.

    Indeed. Trump was the devine wind beneith their wings. They can still hate the Deplorables and they do. But the Deplorables are 75 million faceless nobodies. A poor substitute for a GIANT ORANGE HITLER.

    In the interest of keeping hate alive they should allow orange tweets.

    And thank you for “knob-slobbering”. Clearly you are a man of the people.

    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Realist
    @WorkingClass


    And thank you for “knob-slobbering”.
     
    Yes, an accurate, descriptive term.
    , @Supply and Demand
    @WorkingClass

    It’s very easy to hate deplorables —Trump was just a useful avatar.

    Replies: @My SIMPLE Pseudonymic Handle, @Audacious Epigone

    , @dfordoom
    @WorkingClass


    Indeed. Trump was the devine wind beneith their wings. They can still hate the Deplorables and they do. But the Deplorables are 75 million faceless nobodies. A poor substitute for a GIANT ORANGE HITLER.
     
    I think you have it the wrong way round. Liberals didn't really hate Trump. Trump was and is a liberal. It was Trump's supporters that they hated.

    Liberals had always hated the Deplorables but before 2016 they assumed they were no great threat and would soon die off. 2016 convinced liberals that the Deplorables were an existential threat.

    The hatred of Trump was just a symbol of their hatred of the Deplorables.

    Replies: @WorkingClass

  7. @MattinLA
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Precisely. The insane lies they've gotten away with about this phony "plague" are a million times worse than those uttered during the Iraq war. And the damage incalculably worse. We are on the verge of full scale communism. If media skepticism was some sort of game changer, we wouldn't be in this situation. I think we are past the stage where wry comments and dry irony can save us. Physical and emotional courage, wrath, action, and bullets are the only things that will rescue us now.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

    Physical and emotional courage, wrath, action, and bullets are the only things that will rescue us now.

    I do not say that I agree, but your fighting spirit is necessary and laudable.

    It will be objected, “But if we fight, then won’t the state crush us?” Such an objection however may be conditioned more on 1970s-style television action-dramas than on reality. Yes, of course, if you and your band of militia brothers tie red, white and blue bandanas on your foreheads, grab your AR-15s and roll, then the next sound you hear won’t be swelling theme music like on TV. It will be a sheriff’s deputy reading you your Miranda rights.

    Notwithstanding, we are never going to wring concessions from a system that believes that it has nothing physically to fear by oppressing us.

    Whatever one thinks of negroes, negroes have something significant to teach the rest of us. Negroes win concessions as a race because they are physically feared—which is stupid if you think about it. Whites are far more capable of effective group violence.

    I am not getting at any very precise point except that the fighting spirit you offer is indispensable. One cannot do without it.

    • Replies: @Realist
    @V. K. Ovelund

    It appears your solution is to lube-up.

    , @AndrewR
    @V. K. Ovelund

    Blacks win concessions because the elites don't actually object to non-anti-semitic black supremacism at all. In fact they promote it.

  8. the journos would be brutally ratioed all across cyberspace.

    Yeah, like the enemy could shut down our internets. Ha!

  9. Confidence in the Press, by Political Orientation Over Time

    Confidence about what? I have confidence that the press is corrupt, lying assholes.

    • Agree: usNthem
  10. @V. K. Ovelund
    @MattinLA


    Physical and emotional courage, wrath, action, and bullets are the only things that will rescue us now.
     
    I do not say that I agree, but your fighting spirit is necessary and laudable.

    It will be objected, “But if we fight, then won't the state crush us?” Such an objection however may be conditioned more on 1970s-style television action-dramas than on reality. Yes, of course, if you and your band of militia brothers tie red, white and blue bandanas on your foreheads, grab your AR-15s and roll, then the next sound you hear won't be swelling theme music like on TV. It will be a sheriff's deputy reading you your Miranda rights.

    Notwithstanding, we are never going to wring concessions from a system that believes that it has nothing physically to fear by oppressing us.

    Whatever one thinks of negroes, negroes have something significant to teach the rest of us. Negroes win concessions as a race because they are physically feared—which is stupid if you think about it. Whites are far more capable of effective group violence.

    I am not getting at any very precise point except that the fighting spirit you offer is indispensable. One cannot do without it.

    Replies: @Realist, @AndrewR

    It appears your solution is to lube-up.

  11. @WorkingClass
    The media’s knob-slobbering, ring-kissing, bootlicking deference to and running interference for the Biden administration isn’t going to sustain liberals in the same way their acrimony towards Trump did.

    Indeed. Trump was the devine wind beneith their wings. They can still hate the Deplorables and they do. But the Deplorables are 75 million faceless nobodies. A poor substitute for a GIANT ORANGE HITLER.

    In the interest of keeping hate alive they should allow orange tweets.

    And thank you for "knob-slobbering". Clearly you are a man of the people.

    Replies: @Realist, @Supply and Demand, @dfordoom

    And thank you for “knob-slobbering”.

    Yes, an accurate, descriptive term.

  12. @V. K. Ovelund
    @MattinLA


    Physical and emotional courage, wrath, action, and bullets are the only things that will rescue us now.
     
    I do not say that I agree, but your fighting spirit is necessary and laudable.

    It will be objected, “But if we fight, then won't the state crush us?” Such an objection however may be conditioned more on 1970s-style television action-dramas than on reality. Yes, of course, if you and your band of militia brothers tie red, white and blue bandanas on your foreheads, grab your AR-15s and roll, then the next sound you hear won't be swelling theme music like on TV. It will be a sheriff's deputy reading you your Miranda rights.

    Notwithstanding, we are never going to wring concessions from a system that believes that it has nothing physically to fear by oppressing us.

    Whatever one thinks of negroes, negroes have something significant to teach the rest of us. Negroes win concessions as a race because they are physically feared—which is stupid if you think about it. Whites are far more capable of effective group violence.

    I am not getting at any very precise point except that the fighting spirit you offer is indispensable. One cannot do without it.

    Replies: @Realist, @AndrewR

    Blacks win concessions because the elites don’t actually object to non-anti-semitic black supremacism at all. In fact they promote it.

  13. @anon
    The media’s knob-slobbering, ring-kissing, bootlicking deference to and running interference for the Biden administration isn’t going to sustain liberals in the same way their acrimony towards Trump did.

    It is too soon to tell. Truly, it is. I have neighbors and other people around with "Hate Has No Home Here" signs who totally live in the bubble; they listen to "Morning Edition", "Fresh Air" and "All Things Considered"; they read the NY Times, the Atlantic, Nation, etc.; some view Rachel Maddow and Don Lemon and the PBS News Hour. They consider the mainstream press to be bold truth-tellers, not bootlickers; they are firmly behind defending Bi-den and don't consider anything to be a coverup...now. Two years ago they regarded the border crisis as 'complicated' but now it's simple. Kids in cages? No, that was Trump! Not happening now! If it is, there's some kind of mistake! Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

    Last year's riots peaceful protest events didn't ding their faith in the revealed Narrative at all. To be honest, I am not sure what could actually dissuade their total trust in the MSM. Not sure at all.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @My SIMPLE Pseudonymic Handle, @MattinLA, @Corvinus, @anonymous, @Audacious Epigone

    To be honest, I am not sure what could actually dissuade their total trust in the MSM. Not sure at all.

    Right. Your neighbors sound like my co-workers. I think the issue is that one’s perspective on the MSM has become a signal of political beliefs, a social signal. The imperatives of social signaling are almost impossible to overcome for those inside the necessitating bubble.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    @Chrisnonymous

    Right. Your neighbors sound like my co-workers. I think the issue is that one’s perspective on the MSM has become a signal of political beliefs, a social signal. The imperatives of social signaling are almost impossible to overcome for those inside the necessitating bubble.

    It's a two way signal.

    The MSM is telling them how to be a good little liberal and they show others that they are indeed part of the group.

    It's very much connected to their identity so if you point out media bias they become deeply threatened as you are questioning who they are as a person.

    This is why you can't even suggest that they get their media from multiple sources. In theory they might agree that it makes sense but on an emotional level it's like telling an Orthodox Jew that he should consider listening to Christians and Muslims at times so he doesn't get stuck in his beliefs.

  14. Two alternative interpretations of the graph AE presents:

    (1) There are clear plummets and rockets in Liberal confidence in the press, around 1982-1984 and 1991-2002. These require some explanation, but it looks like liberals respond to world events by being skeptical or supportive of the MSM based on world events. For example, 1982-84 was arguably the high point of the Reagan years, and 1991 saw the beginning of Bush I’s war, while the late 1990s saw the impeachment of Clinton.

    (2) The Liberal confidence in the MSM has been really plummeting except for upsurges around 1984, 1992, 2000, 2008–it’s likely liberals just respond to election cycles.

    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
  15. @WorkingClass
    The media’s knob-slobbering, ring-kissing, bootlicking deference to and running interference for the Biden administration isn’t going to sustain liberals in the same way their acrimony towards Trump did.

    Indeed. Trump was the devine wind beneith their wings. They can still hate the Deplorables and they do. But the Deplorables are 75 million faceless nobodies. A poor substitute for a GIANT ORANGE HITLER.

    In the interest of keeping hate alive they should allow orange tweets.

    And thank you for "knob-slobbering". Clearly you are a man of the people.

    Replies: @Realist, @Supply and Demand, @dfordoom

    It’s very easy to hate deplorables —Trump was just a useful avatar.

    • Replies: @My SIMPLE Pseudonymic Handle
    @Supply and Demand

    ***********
    "It’s very easy to hate deplorables"
    ***********

    That's funny.

    Aren't we supposed to be stopping the hate?

    Whatever happened diversity and inclusion?

    Or does that only apply to Democrat/Leftist arse kissers?

    What's next? Concentration camps, gas chambers, and ovens for those you think are deplorable?

    It was funny how all those Portland Antifa protestors with their signs calling for "Stop The Hate" and "Hate Has No Place Here" were unleashing hate and violence on those they thought were inimical to their political point of view.

    Replies: @John Johnson, @Supply and Demand

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @Supply and Demand

    Most liberals don't like the idea of picking on powerless people, even people they don't like. Trump is much easier for them to hate than some prole living in a shack in Appalachia. They view those people with a mix of pity and disdain, but it's not the same as the red hot hatred they have for Trump.

  16. @anon
    The media’s knob-slobbering, ring-kissing, bootlicking deference to and running interference for the Biden administration isn’t going to sustain liberals in the same way their acrimony towards Trump did.

    It is too soon to tell. Truly, it is. I have neighbors and other people around with "Hate Has No Home Here" signs who totally live in the bubble; they listen to "Morning Edition", "Fresh Air" and "All Things Considered"; they read the NY Times, the Atlantic, Nation, etc.; some view Rachel Maddow and Don Lemon and the PBS News Hour. They consider the mainstream press to be bold truth-tellers, not bootlickers; they are firmly behind defending Bi-den and don't consider anything to be a coverup...now. Two years ago they regarded the border crisis as 'complicated' but now it's simple. Kids in cages? No, that was Trump! Not happening now! If it is, there's some kind of mistake! Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

    Last year's riots peaceful protest events didn't ding their faith in the revealed Narrative at all. To be honest, I am not sure what could actually dissuade their total trust in the MSM. Not sure at all.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @My SIMPLE Pseudonymic Handle, @MattinLA, @Corvinus, @anonymous, @Audacious Epigone

    The only thing that would actually dissuade their total trust in the MSM would be if they did a total 180 and started knob-slobbering, ring-kissing, and giving bootlicking deference to and running interference for Republicans and Conservatives.

    But, who knows. People like that are extremely pliable and easily brainwashed so the cognitive dissonance wouldn’t trip them up one little bit. They’d jump the fence easily without skipping a heartbeat. These are the type of people that expect others to tell them how to think and what to believe.

    I’m reminded of those “Man on the Street” interviews where they query pedestrians about which politician they think uttered a specific quote. When they think the quote is from a Republican or a Conservative the look on their face(s) is priceless when it’s revealed that they were quotes from Obama or some other Democrat.

  17. I think this kind of survey misses a key fact. The ‘press’, news media or whatever you want to call it has changed over the years. 21st century news’ is unrecognizable from late 20th century news. The TV networks once had ‘news bureaus’. If a story broke in London or Tokyo they had reporters on scene to give you first hand reports. Dan Rather went to Afghanistan, not with American forces, but with Afghan rebels fighting the USSR. TV news just doesn’t have the money to do on scene reporting anymore and neither do the newspapers so they fill their airtime and pages with talking heads, opinion pieces and human interest stories of a liberal slant. There is no more NEWS.

    • Agree: Firefinga
    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    @unit472

    Indeed. A lot of what journos do these days--for work!--are gossip about tweets.

  18. What would it look like, if you could disaggregate Fox News? The ultimate boogeyman for many blank-slatists.

    • Replies: @A123
    @songbird

    Fox News has become just as bad as everyone else. It was started by Rupert Murdoch (owner of the Wall Street Journal) to push the Corporate position. Now that SJW Corporatism is a side. Fox services that position.

    As existing Prime Time hosts who are Populists retire or leave, they will not be replaced. Fox will continue its descent into Globalist deception.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @songbird, @John Johnson

  19. @Supply and Demand
    @WorkingClass

    It’s very easy to hate deplorables —Trump was just a useful avatar.

    Replies: @My SIMPLE Pseudonymic Handle, @Audacious Epigone

    ***********
    “It’s very easy to hate deplorables”
    ***********

    That’s funny.

    Aren’t we supposed to be stopping the hate?

    Whatever happened diversity and inclusion?

    Or does that only apply to Democrat/Leftist arse kissers?

    What’s next? Concentration camps, gas chambers, and ovens for those you think are deplorable?

    It was funny how all those Portland Antifa protestors with their signs calling for “Stop The Hate” and “Hate Has No Place Here” were unleashing hate and violence on those they thought were inimical to their political point of view.

    • Thanks: Supply and Demand
    • Replies: @John Johnson
    @My SIMPLE Pseudonymic Handle

    What’s next? Concentration camps, gas chambers, and ovens for those you think are deplorable?

    I've already had two liberals here express support for re-education camps. Liberals that know race is real would use just about anything to control the public. High level liberals (politicians, journalists, professors) would ship us all off if they could. They only have limits because we have a democracy and the first amendment. If someone like Harris was a dictator you could expect a knock on your door. Liberals are absolutely terrified of websites like this one. They view race as the secret that must be kept at any cost. In their minds they would be stopping a fourth reich so if we ended up in a labor camp then oh well.

    Intelligent liberals know the whole thing is based on a lie and deeply resent any type of dissent. It's the noble lie that modern aristocrats are supposed to accept and not talk about. Even by questioning certain policies without mentioning race can hint to them that you aren't following the lie and are not to be trusted.

    Replies: @Rosie, @Corvinus

    , @Supply and Demand
    @My SIMPLE Pseudonymic Handle

    All of the things you mentioned sound great.

  20. @songbird
    What would it look like, if you could disaggregate Fox News? The ultimate boogeyman for many blank-slatists.

    Replies: @A123

    Fox News has become just as bad as everyone else. It was started by Rupert Murdoch (owner of the Wall Street Journal) to push the Corporate position. Now that SJW Corporatism is a side. Fox services that position.

    As existing Prime Time hosts who are Populists retire or leave, they will not be replaced. Fox will continue its descent into Globalist deception.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @songbird
    @A123


    Fox will continue its descent into Globalist deception.
     
    I'm inclined to agree, and it was not my intention to defend it.

    My only point, though, is that there is a uniquely partisan, tunnel-sighted, memetic obsession about it. Liberals will say "Faux News", but seem to give more credence to other sources, especially state media.

    I'm not sure how much liberals question CNN, BBC, or NBC, etc. I suspect that it is not very much, though I could be wrong.

    Replies: @A123

    , @John Johnson
    @A123

    Fox News has become just as bad as everyone else. It was started by Rupert Murdoch (owner of the Wall Street Journal) to push the Corporate position. Now that SJW Corporatism is a side.

    It's corporate sludge and I don't see how anyone can stand it.

    They talk about political correctness in the media and then ignore all kinds of Black on White crimes.

    Then they will debate some dumb CNN topic like "should trannies watch your children?"

  21. What would it look like, if you could disaggregate Fox News? The ultimate boogeyman for many blank-slatists.

    Yea it is the media boogeyman of liberals but Fox News is ConInc which is blank slate lite.

    Their analysis to anything related to race is just as reality-avoiding as CNN.

    They’ll put on some shrill woman with a long island accent and she’ll ask vapid questions like:

    Is this the year that African-Americans leave the Democrat plantation? Let’s ask our Black correspondent who will give an answer that really just re-words the question.

  22. @Chrisnonymous
    @anon


    To be honest, I am not sure what could actually dissuade their total trust in the MSM. Not sure at all.
     
    Right. Your neighbors sound like my co-workers. I think the issue is that one's perspective on the MSM has become a signal of political beliefs, a social signal. The imperatives of social signaling are almost impossible to overcome for those inside the necessitating bubble.

    Replies: @John Johnson

    Right. Your neighbors sound like my co-workers. I think the issue is that one’s perspective on the MSM has become a signal of political beliefs, a social signal. The imperatives of social signaling are almost impossible to overcome for those inside the necessitating bubble.

    It’s a two way signal.

    The MSM is telling them how to be a good little liberal and they show others that they are indeed part of the group.

    It’s very much connected to their identity so if you point out media bias they become deeply threatened as you are questioning who they are as a person.

    This is why you can’t even suggest that they get their media from multiple sources. In theory they might agree that it makes sense but on an emotional level it’s like telling an Orthodox Jew that he should consider listening to Christians and Muslims at times so he doesn’t get stuck in his beliefs.

    • Agree: Almost Missouri
  23. @unit472
    I think the 2003 invasion of Iraq is not a useful analogy. I, for example, was in favor of toppling Saddam's regime whether he had WMDs or not. That the Bush Administration conjured up WMDs as a casus belli was unnecessary and stupid absent incontrovertible proof which it did not have.

    Coming little more than a year after 9/11 the American public was eager to make someone pay a price and Saddam Hussein was both convenient and worthy of the role. For the legal justification there was his violations of the 1990 Ceasefire Agreement that left this thug in power.

    There was never any reason to occupy Iraq other than the idiot Bush's dream of creating a Switzerland on the Euphrates. Send the army in. Chase Saddam out and go home. That worked too. The US looked 10 feet tall such that Moammar Khadafy got religion and turned his actual WMDs over to the Brits and decided to become Silvio Berlusconi's BFF ( for all the good it did him a decade later )

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    Agree. And so did Henry Kissinger.

    ( for all the good it did him a decade later )

    That was probably the biggest geostrategic blunder of the last generation and certainly the biggest nuclear containment blunder since the Rosenbergs. Obama’s and Hillary’s pointless and gratuitous war against Libya in order to show that lefties could make war too not only destroyed the cooperative government of a strategic country, it also served notice to every second- and third-tier power that the only sure way to prevent an arbitrary attack by the US is to make sure you have WMDs. None will be foolish enough to give up their WMD programs anymore.

  24. @A123
    @songbird

    Fox News has become just as bad as everyone else. It was started by Rupert Murdoch (owner of the Wall Street Journal) to push the Corporate position. Now that SJW Corporatism is a side. Fox services that position.

    As existing Prime Time hosts who are Populists retire or leave, they will not be replaced. Fox will continue its descent into Globalist deception.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @songbird, @John Johnson

    Fox will continue its descent into Globalist deception.

    I’m inclined to agree, and it was not my intention to defend it.

    My only point, though, is that there is a uniquely partisan, tunnel-sighted, memetic obsession about it. Liberals will say “Faux News”, but seem to give more credence to other sources, especially state media.

    I’m not sure how much liberals question CNN, BBC, or NBC, etc. I suspect that it is not very much, though I could be wrong.

    • Replies: @A123
    @songbird


    Liberals will say “Faux News”, but seem to give more credence to other sources, especially state media.
     
    True enough.

    Even though FN agrees with them most hours of the day, I suspect SJW's will continue to slam Fox SJW News until holdovers like Tucker Carlson depart.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

  25. @My SIMPLE Pseudonymic Handle
    @Supply and Demand

    ***********
    "It’s very easy to hate deplorables"
    ***********

    That's funny.

    Aren't we supposed to be stopping the hate?

    Whatever happened diversity and inclusion?

    Or does that only apply to Democrat/Leftist arse kissers?

    What's next? Concentration camps, gas chambers, and ovens for those you think are deplorable?

    It was funny how all those Portland Antifa protestors with their signs calling for "Stop The Hate" and "Hate Has No Place Here" were unleashing hate and violence on those they thought were inimical to their political point of view.

    Replies: @John Johnson, @Supply and Demand

    What’s next? Concentration camps, gas chambers, and ovens for those you think are deplorable?

    I’ve already had two liberals here express support for re-education camps. Liberals that know race is real would use just about anything to control the public. High level liberals (politicians, journalists, professors) would ship us all off if they could. They only have limits because we have a democracy and the first amendment. If someone like Harris was a dictator you could expect a knock on your door. Liberals are absolutely terrified of websites like this one. They view race as the secret that must be kept at any cost. In their minds they would be stopping a fourth reich so if we ended up in a labor camp then oh well.

    Intelligent liberals know the whole thing is based on a lie and deeply resent any type of dissent. It’s the noble lie that modern aristocrats are supposed to accept and not talk about. Even by questioning certain policies without mentioning race can hint to them that you aren’t following the lie and are not to be trusted.

    • Agree: Supply and Demand
    • Replies: @Rosie
    @John Johnson


    Intelligent liberals know the whole thing is based on a lie and deeply resent any type of dissent. It’s the noble lie that modern aristocrats are supposed to accept and not talk about. Even by questioning certain policies without mentioning race can hint to them that you aren’t following the lie and are not to be trusted.
     
    This is about as good a take as I have heard, yet it still makes very little sense when you think about it.

    Anyone who cares at all about "noble lies" (or nobility of any sort) must care about truth, beauty, goodness, or something. Yet, civilization itself is at stake if this lie continues. The end of philosophy, theology, art, music? How does this not horrify people?

    https://youtu.be/NIlz3g3DgCU
    , @Corvinus
    @John Johnson

    "I’ve already had two liberals here express support for re-education camps."

    Who? What two commenters? What exactly was their charge?

    Perhaps you were speaking about commenter Meforbills. Based on HIS criteria, off you go!


    You Refuse to Get Vaccinated, But Are You Ready to be an Outcast?
    Mike Whitney • March 25, 2021

    With regards to lemming like behavior, that is totally observable, especially during election time, when the “people” can be easily maneuvered with propaganda. Oh… I guess you thought I was a white supremacist before, and now you are defending against my charge that many whites are lemmings? My ideology is completely consistent. I believe that white people, many of whom are lemmings, have to be protected within a Fascist framework.

    ...

    Now you understand the raison de’etre for China’s Uyghur camps, and by extension Hitler’s camps.
    When you get a population that is demoralized, then they have to be deprogrammed. In the case of the Uyghurs it was recycled petrodollars funneling into madrassas and hence Wahhabi Islam, thus radicalizing China’s Muslims. Now, through state power, the Uyghurs are being un-radicalized, and (((globo-homo))) is losing.

    ...

    You can grab them by the scruff of the neck and practically force feed them provable facts, and they still continue to ignore, it is too hard to rewire your brain. It takes a kick to the balls. Given Germany’s situation it was entirely correct to create the camps. And they were not death camps contrary to your thinking. A lot of German people needed a kick.

    Uncle Shmuel Is Truly Brain Dead…
    The Saker • March 17, 2021

    I’m not embarrassing myself, you have a warped handle on the fabric of reality, and project falsely.

    In fact, you are exhibiting the exact behavior of why the camps became necessary. People who were too far gone to work in polite and consensual society were NOT sent to jail, but to an intermediate place – the camps.

    The German people had been traumatized and many people were checking-out, much like today’s clown world.

    The “work makes you free” slogan, was part of the camps ethos, to put lazy people and those who heads weren’t right, to work to then given them self-respect. The concept of labor being honorable was a German concept transmitted to them via the Dominican monks during the Feudal epoch.

    During that feudal period, German people became the best labor in the world. There was even guild associations that formed to prevent usury and the taking of sordid gain via shoddy workmanship.

     

  26. @songbird
    @A123


    Fox will continue its descent into Globalist deception.
     
    I'm inclined to agree, and it was not my intention to defend it.

    My only point, though, is that there is a uniquely partisan, tunnel-sighted, memetic obsession about it. Liberals will say "Faux News", but seem to give more credence to other sources, especially state media.

    I'm not sure how much liberals question CNN, BBC, or NBC, etc. I suspect that it is not very much, though I could be wrong.

    Replies: @A123

    Liberals will say “Faux News”, but seem to give more credence to other sources, especially state media.

    True enough.

    Even though FN agrees with them most hours of the day, I suspect SJW’s will continue to slam Fox SJW News until holdovers like Tucker Carlson depart.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @A123


    Even though FN agrees with them most hours of the day, I suspect SJW’s will continue to slam Fox SJW News until holdovers like Tucker Carlson depart.
     
    I wonder how Tucker got his show in the first place, though. Wasn't it the new management that gave it to him?

    Am not defending Fox, but just asking a question.

    Replies: @A123

  27. @A123
    @songbird

    Fox News has become just as bad as everyone else. It was started by Rupert Murdoch (owner of the Wall Street Journal) to push the Corporate position. Now that SJW Corporatism is a side. Fox services that position.

    As existing Prime Time hosts who are Populists retire or leave, they will not be replaced. Fox will continue its descent into Globalist deception.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @songbird, @John Johnson

    Fox News has become just as bad as everyone else. It was started by Rupert Murdoch (owner of the Wall Street Journal) to push the Corporate position. Now that SJW Corporatism is a side.

    It’s corporate sludge and I don’t see how anyone can stand it.

    They talk about political correctness in the media and then ignore all kinds of Black on White crimes.

    Then they will debate some dumb CNN topic like “should trannies watch your children?”

  28. @A123
    @songbird


    Liberals will say “Faux News”, but seem to give more credence to other sources, especially state media.
     
    True enough.

    Even though FN agrees with them most hours of the day, I suspect SJW's will continue to slam Fox SJW News until holdovers like Tucker Carlson depart.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

    Even though FN agrees with them most hours of the day, I suspect SJW’s will continue to slam Fox SJW News until holdovers like Tucker Carlson depart.

    I wonder how Tucker got his show in the first place, though. Wasn’t it the new management that gave it to him?

    Am not defending Fox, but just asking a question.

    • Replies: @A123
    @V. K. Ovelund


    I wonder how Tucker got his show in the first place, though. Wasn’t it the new management that gave it to him?
     
    My understanding is that the contract for Tucker's show was signed 2014-2015. While some of "new management" was there, they were still in Corporate mode and it looked like harmless $$$ to them.

    Fox "new management" did not flip into TDS-mode until much later (~2018), when Trump started seriously bludgeoning MegaCorporations beloved of the WSJ/SJW crowd.

    PEACE 😇
  29. @John Johnson
    @My SIMPLE Pseudonymic Handle

    What’s next? Concentration camps, gas chambers, and ovens for those you think are deplorable?

    I've already had two liberals here express support for re-education camps. Liberals that know race is real would use just about anything to control the public. High level liberals (politicians, journalists, professors) would ship us all off if they could. They only have limits because we have a democracy and the first amendment. If someone like Harris was a dictator you could expect a knock on your door. Liberals are absolutely terrified of websites like this one. They view race as the secret that must be kept at any cost. In their minds they would be stopping a fourth reich so if we ended up in a labor camp then oh well.

    Intelligent liberals know the whole thing is based on a lie and deeply resent any type of dissent. It's the noble lie that modern aristocrats are supposed to accept and not talk about. Even by questioning certain policies without mentioning race can hint to them that you aren't following the lie and are not to be trusted.

    Replies: @Rosie, @Corvinus

    Intelligent liberals know the whole thing is based on a lie and deeply resent any type of dissent. It’s the noble lie that modern aristocrats are supposed to accept and not talk about. Even by questioning certain policies without mentioning race can hint to them that you aren’t following the lie and are not to be trusted.

    This is about as good a take as I have heard, yet it still makes very little sense when you think about it.

    Anyone who cares at all about “noble lies” (or nobility of any sort) must care about truth, beauty, goodness, or something. Yet, civilization itself is at stake if this lie continues. The end of philosophy, theology, art, music? How does this not horrify people?

  30. @V. K. Ovelund
    @A123


    Even though FN agrees with them most hours of the day, I suspect SJW’s will continue to slam Fox SJW News until holdovers like Tucker Carlson depart.
     
    I wonder how Tucker got his show in the first place, though. Wasn't it the new management that gave it to him?

    Am not defending Fox, but just asking a question.

    Replies: @A123

    I wonder how Tucker got his show in the first place, though. Wasn’t it the new management that gave it to him?

    My understanding is that the contract for Tucker’s show was signed 2014-2015. While some of “new management” was there, they were still in Corporate mode and it looked like harmless $$$ to them.

    Fox “new management” did not flip into TDS-mode until much later (~2018), when Trump started seriously bludgeoning MegaCorporations beloved of the WSJ/SJW crowd.

    PEACE 😇

  31. Anyone who cares at all about “noble lies” (or nobility of any sort) must care about truth, beauty, goodness, or something. Yet, civilization itself is at stake if this lie continues. The end of philosophy, theology, art, music? How does this not horrify people?

    Liberals are heavily driven by bitterness and resentment. They aren’t gentle nobles interested in higher art or philosophy. They think it is deeply unfair that the world isn’t egalitarian and everything follows from this belief.

    What you are calling civilization to them is the oppressive Western patriarchy.

    They don’t want someone like Plato to be remembered or recognized.

    What they want to do is erase history and start over with diversity. History itself is too unequal and threatens the noble lie.

  32. @My SIMPLE Pseudonymic Handle
    @Supply and Demand

    ***********
    "It’s very easy to hate deplorables"
    ***********

    That's funny.

    Aren't we supposed to be stopping the hate?

    Whatever happened diversity and inclusion?

    Or does that only apply to Democrat/Leftist arse kissers?

    What's next? Concentration camps, gas chambers, and ovens for those you think are deplorable?

    It was funny how all those Portland Antifa protestors with their signs calling for "Stop The Hate" and "Hate Has No Place Here" were unleashing hate and violence on those they thought were inimical to their political point of view.

    Replies: @John Johnson, @Supply and Demand

    All of the things you mentioned sound great.

  33. A problem is how one defines “the press”. I suspect that many with a poor opinion of the press make a mental exception for the press they prefer.

    To the average liberal, the New York Times is a plucky underdog, part of a small embattled band of truth tellers holding the line against Rupert Murdoch, who controls all other press and rules over his evil media empire with an iron fist, relentlessly brainwashing the masses into opposing the true and the good, e.g. windfarms, the NHS, and the surgical removal of as many testicles as possible

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Barack Obama's secret Unz account


    A problem is how one defines “the press”. I suspect that many with a poor opinion of the press make a mental exception for the press they prefer.
     
    I think that's how most people see it. Liberals believe that most of the media is dominated by evil right-wingers with only a handful of brave dissidents like the New York Times. Conservatives believe that most of the media is dominated by evil left-wingers with only a handful of brave dissidents like Fox News. The far right believes that most of the media is dominated by communists, apart from a handful of brave truth-tellers in the alternative media.

    Most people believe that their own side is honest and that their enemies are all liars.
  34. @WorkingClass
    The media’s knob-slobbering, ring-kissing, bootlicking deference to and running interference for the Biden administration isn’t going to sustain liberals in the same way their acrimony towards Trump did.

    Indeed. Trump was the devine wind beneith their wings. They can still hate the Deplorables and they do. But the Deplorables are 75 million faceless nobodies. A poor substitute for a GIANT ORANGE HITLER.

    In the interest of keeping hate alive they should allow orange tweets.

    And thank you for "knob-slobbering". Clearly you are a man of the people.

    Replies: @Realist, @Supply and Demand, @dfordoom

    Indeed. Trump was the devine wind beneith their wings. They can still hate the Deplorables and they do. But the Deplorables are 75 million faceless nobodies. A poor substitute for a GIANT ORANGE HITLER.

    I think you have it the wrong way round. Liberals didn’t really hate Trump. Trump was and is a liberal. It was Trump’s supporters that they hated.

    Liberals had always hated the Deplorables but before 2016 they assumed they were no great threat and would soon die off. 2016 convinced liberals that the Deplorables were an existential threat.

    The hatred of Trump was just a symbol of their hatred of the Deplorables.

    • Replies: @WorkingClass
    @dfordoom


    The hatred of Trump was just a symbol of their hatred of the Deplorables.
     
    That spike in the liberal line has nothing to do with confidence. It's about love. They love CNN because CNN hates Trump. Or if you prefer, because CNN hates Deplorables.
  35. @anon
    The media’s knob-slobbering, ring-kissing, bootlicking deference to and running interference for the Biden administration isn’t going to sustain liberals in the same way their acrimony towards Trump did.

    It is too soon to tell. Truly, it is. I have neighbors and other people around with "Hate Has No Home Here" signs who totally live in the bubble; they listen to "Morning Edition", "Fresh Air" and "All Things Considered"; they read the NY Times, the Atlantic, Nation, etc.; some view Rachel Maddow and Don Lemon and the PBS News Hour. They consider the mainstream press to be bold truth-tellers, not bootlickers; they are firmly behind defending Bi-den and don't consider anything to be a coverup...now. Two years ago they regarded the border crisis as 'complicated' but now it's simple. Kids in cages? No, that was Trump! Not happening now! If it is, there's some kind of mistake! Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

    Last year's riots peaceful protest events didn't ding their faith in the revealed Narrative at all. To be honest, I am not sure what could actually dissuade their total trust in the MSM. Not sure at all.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @My SIMPLE Pseudonymic Handle, @MattinLA, @Corvinus, @anonymous, @Audacious Epigone

    This is my 80 year old mother. The sign in the front yard, Rachel Maddow, everything. Inexplicable. Like some sort of brain virus that has metastasized.

  36. USA going to war (I mean sztarting a new one, since America is still involved in a couple right now) today? Very easiliy done, just orchestrate a mainstream-media campaign that some state is “racist” and “anti-LGTBQ” and you’ll have libruls cheering bombing “brown” people in the name of the woke-cult.

    • Replies: @neutral
    @Firefinga

    Even with the heaviest of propaganda, going after brown people because they don't do homo worship is a very hard sell. That is why Russia is such a useful enemy to have.

    Replies: @dfordoom

  37. @Firefinga
    USA going to war (I mean sztarting a new one, since America is still involved in a couple right now) today? Very easiliy done, just orchestrate a mainstream-media campaign that some state is "racist" and "anti-LGTBQ" and you'll have libruls cheering bombing "brown" people in the name of the woke-cult.

    Replies: @neutral

    Even with the heaviest of propaganda, going after brown people because they don’t do homo worship is a very hard sell. That is why Russia is such a useful enemy to have.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @neutral


    Even with the heaviest of propaganda, going after brown people because they don’t do homo worship is a very hard sell.
     
    I think it would be an easy sell. Ordinary people love war. It's more popular than football. You just have to give them an excuse to hate some other country and they'll be wildly cheering on the bombing.

    It's human nature to want somebody to blame, somebody to serve as a scapegoat. Making war makes ordinary people feel better. It gives meaning to their empty miserable lives.
  38. @anon
    The media’s knob-slobbering, ring-kissing, bootlicking deference to and running interference for the Biden administration isn’t going to sustain liberals in the same way their acrimony towards Trump did.

    It is too soon to tell. Truly, it is. I have neighbors and other people around with "Hate Has No Home Here" signs who totally live in the bubble; they listen to "Morning Edition", "Fresh Air" and "All Things Considered"; they read the NY Times, the Atlantic, Nation, etc.; some view Rachel Maddow and Don Lemon and the PBS News Hour. They consider the mainstream press to be bold truth-tellers, not bootlickers; they are firmly behind defending Bi-den and don't consider anything to be a coverup...now. Two years ago they regarded the border crisis as 'complicated' but now it's simple. Kids in cages? No, that was Trump! Not happening now! If it is, there's some kind of mistake! Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

    Last year's riots peaceful protest events didn't ding their faith in the revealed Narrative at all. To be honest, I am not sure what could actually dissuade their total trust in the MSM. Not sure at all.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @My SIMPLE Pseudonymic Handle, @MattinLA, @Corvinus, @anonymous, @Audacious Epigone

    YOU live in that same bubble, friend.

    Increasingly, we are subject to falling prey to confirmation bias. People do it instinctively when confronted with attitude-inconsistent information. When someone attempts to inform them of their misconceptions, rather than take it under advisement, it “backfires”, which in effect makes them less skeptical of what they believe in, since obviously the other side is rife with their own false impressions. Thus, one continues to see their own position as “true and proper”. Of course, the argument stems from what is and what is not a misconception, whether it be “race realism” or “white privilege”, which ends up being a feedback loop.

    It is virtually impossible to argue with those people who cling on this “Fake New” or “the media always lies” meme. Any fact brought brought into an argument, they immediately attack the SOURCE, rather than the substance. Thus, it is easy to deny there is ANY evidence at all. This phenomenon has been brewing for a long time (thanks, Trump :)), and it has reached a critical mass at our point in world history. Unfortunately, this leads more people to become ignorant by facilitating echo chambers. So the mentality of “Fake News/the media always lies” is EXACTLY THE SAME as those who spout off how “Jewish run media conglomerates control the narrative” since a person filters anything that dares to disrupt their world view.

    There is an HbD inspired explanation for being duped. We as a species have this impulsive cognition-–the seat of emotion, of sense of self, of phobias, and of herding behavior. The limbic system of the brain has its neurons fire faster and with greater amplitude than in the cerebral cortex, so it literally drowns out rational mindedness. There are a myriad of examples that this snap-decision system is controlling what we think.

    Belief comes first, with our biases are held in the brain immediately above the brainstem, and they are the central control room for everything coming into the brain. Nothing will pass these filters, so it is virtually essentially impossible to “change someone’s mind” via persuasion. A person’s filters have to fall first. Otherwise, they will simply go into shoot the messenger mode when, for example, WaPO and NYT are used as sources. There was an emotional hypostasis to it that TRIGGERED in their brain an endorphin rush of self-righteousness.

    As a counter, here is the advice of Ron Unz…

    I apply the same historical methods I did in my academic journal articles back in the 1980’s. You analyze the likely reliability of the raw information presented, look for confirming or refuting evidence, and then draw your own plausible conclusions…On a more serious note, many of my articles very heavily cite various MSM sources, so why would I do that if I believed they were always lying?”

    • Agree: dfordoom
    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @neutral
    @Corvinus

    That is a lot of world salad bullshit. In the real world sub Saharan Africa exists, and the place is the worst in the world, blacks are easily proven to be the lowest of all races, a bane on any society they live with. To compare race realism to white privilege is total nonsense, if all the elite are endlessly demonizing whites, it should be obvious where the real privilege is. To make the two sides equivalent to each other is a joke, your ideology is absolutely reality denying.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    , @anon
    @Corvinus

    YOU live in that same bubble, friend.

    Lol, you should be better at lying than this, given that you get so much practice.

    On a daily basis I'm surrounded and immersed in libtardy. The point of view you are paid to push here? It's all around me every day, even when I attempt to avoid it.

    My confidence in the propaganda industry commonly called "the press" was low years ago, and the blatant lying of recent years has only increased my contempt. Paid liars are boring and deserve nothing more than scorn from thinking people.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    , @Audacious Epigone
    @Corvinus

    Jonathan Haidt memorably describes reason as the rider, emotions as the elephant. The elephant is going to go where it wants to go, especially when it gets riled up. The rider is mostly at its mercy.

  39. @Corvinus
    @anon

    YOU live in that same bubble, friend.

    Increasingly, we are subject to falling prey to confirmation bias. People do it instinctively when confronted with attitude-inconsistent information. When someone attempts to inform them of their misconceptions, rather than take it under advisement, it “backfires”, which in effect makes them less skeptical of what they believe in, since obviously the other side is rife with their own false impressions. Thus, one continues to see their own position as “true and proper”. Of course, the argument stems from what is and what is not a misconception, whether it be “race realism” or “white privilege”, which ends up being a feedback loop.

    It is virtually impossible to argue with those people who cling on this “Fake New” or “the media always lies” meme. Any fact brought brought into an argument, they immediately attack the SOURCE, rather than the substance. Thus, it is easy to deny there is ANY evidence at all. This phenomenon has been brewing for a long time (thanks, Trump :)), and it has reached a critical mass at our point in world history. Unfortunately, this leads more people to become ignorant by facilitating echo chambers. So the mentality of "Fake News/the media always lies" is EXACTLY THE SAME as those who spout off how “Jewish run media conglomerates control the narrative” since a person filters anything that dares to disrupt their world view.

    There is an HbD inspired explanation for being duped. We as a species have this impulsive cognition-–the seat of emotion, of sense of self, of phobias, and of herding behavior. The limbic system of the brain has its neurons fire faster and with greater amplitude than in the cerebral cortex, so it literally drowns out rational mindedness. There are a myriad of examples that this snap-decision system is controlling what we think.

    Belief comes first, with our biases are held in the brain immediately above the brainstem, and they are the central control room for everything coming into the brain. Nothing will pass these filters, so it is virtually essentially impossible to “change someone’s mind” via persuasion. A person's filters have to fall first. Otherwise, they will simply go into shoot the messenger mode when, for example, WaPO and NYT are used as sources. There was an emotional hypostasis to it that TRIGGERED in their brain an endorphin rush of self-righteousness.

    As a counter, here is the advice of Ron Unz…


    I apply the same historical methods I did in my academic journal articles back in the 1980’s. You analyze the likely reliability of the raw information presented, look for confirming or refuting evidence, and then draw your own plausible conclusions…On a more serious note, many of my articles very heavily cite various MSM sources, so why would I do that if I believed they were always lying?”
     

    Replies: @neutral, @anon, @Audacious Epigone

    That is a lot of world salad bullshit. In the real world sub Saharan Africa exists, and the place is the worst in the world, blacks are easily proven to be the lowest of all races, a bane on any society they live with. To compare race realism to white privilege is total nonsense, if all the elite are endlessly demonizing whites, it should be obvious where the real privilege is. To make the two sides equivalent to each other is a joke, your ideology is absolutely reality denying.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @neutral

    "That is a lot of world salad bullshit".

    LOL, including the wisdom offered by our proprietor of this fine opinion webzine? Regardless, you have proved my point. All it took was a little push!

    Replies: @neutral

  40. @John Johnson
    @My SIMPLE Pseudonymic Handle

    What’s next? Concentration camps, gas chambers, and ovens for those you think are deplorable?

    I've already had two liberals here express support for re-education camps. Liberals that know race is real would use just about anything to control the public. High level liberals (politicians, journalists, professors) would ship us all off if they could. They only have limits because we have a democracy and the first amendment. If someone like Harris was a dictator you could expect a knock on your door. Liberals are absolutely terrified of websites like this one. They view race as the secret that must be kept at any cost. In their minds they would be stopping a fourth reich so if we ended up in a labor camp then oh well.

    Intelligent liberals know the whole thing is based on a lie and deeply resent any type of dissent. It's the noble lie that modern aristocrats are supposed to accept and not talk about. Even by questioning certain policies without mentioning race can hint to them that you aren't following the lie and are not to be trusted.

    Replies: @Rosie, @Corvinus

    “I’ve already had two liberals here express support for re-education camps.”

    Who? What two commenters? What exactly was their charge?

    Perhaps you were speaking about commenter Meforbills. Based on HIS criteria, off you go!

    You Refuse to Get Vaccinated, But Are You Ready to be an Outcast?
    Mike Whitney • March 25, 2021

    With regards to lemming like behavior, that is totally observable, especially during election time, when the “people” can be easily maneuvered with propaganda. Oh… I guess you thought I was a white supremacist before, and now you are defending against my charge that many whites are lemmings? My ideology is completely consistent. I believe that white people, many of whom are lemmings, have to be protected within a Fascist framework.

    Now you understand the raison de’etre for China’s Uyghur camps, and by extension Hitler’s camps.
    When you get a population that is demoralized, then they have to be deprogrammed. In the case of the Uyghurs it was recycled petrodollars funneling into madrassas and hence Wahhabi Islam, thus radicalizing China’s Muslims. Now, through state power, the Uyghurs are being un-radicalized, and (((globo-homo))) is losing.

    You can grab them by the scruff of the neck and practically force feed them provable facts, and they still continue to ignore, it is too hard to rewire your brain. It takes a kick to the balls. Given Germany’s situation it was entirely correct to create the camps. And they were not death camps contrary to your thinking. A lot of German people needed a kick.

    Uncle Shmuel Is Truly Brain Dead…
    The Saker • March 17, 2021

    I’m not embarrassing myself, you have a warped handle on the fabric of reality, and project falsely.

    In fact, you are exhibiting the exact behavior of why the camps became necessary. People who were too far gone to work in polite and consensual society were NOT sent to jail, but to an intermediate place – the camps.

    The German people had been traumatized and many people were checking-out, much like today’s clown world.

    The “work makes you free” slogan, was part of the camps ethos, to put lazy people and those who heads weren’t right, to work to then given them self-respect. The concept of labor being honorable was a German concept transmitted to them via the Dominican monks during the Feudal epoch.

    During that feudal period, German people became the best labor in the world. There was even guild associations that formed to prevent usury and the taking of sordid gain via shoddy workmanship.

  41. @neutral
    @Corvinus

    That is a lot of world salad bullshit. In the real world sub Saharan Africa exists, and the place is the worst in the world, blacks are easily proven to be the lowest of all races, a bane on any society they live with. To compare race realism to white privilege is total nonsense, if all the elite are endlessly demonizing whites, it should be obvious where the real privilege is. To make the two sides equivalent to each other is a joke, your ideology is absolutely reality denying.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “That is a lot of world salad bullshit”.

    LOL, including the wisdom offered by our proprietor of this fine opinion webzine? Regardless, you have proved my point. All it took was a little push!

    • Replies: @neutral
    @Corvinus

    You don't have a point, you endlessly ramble about how clever you are, but you are unable to provide a single fact to prove anything you claim. The only thing you do mange to prove is how idiotic you are.

    Replies: @Corvinus

  42. @Corvinus
    @neutral

    "That is a lot of world salad bullshit".

    LOL, including the wisdom offered by our proprietor of this fine opinion webzine? Regardless, you have proved my point. All it took was a little push!

    Replies: @neutral

    You don’t have a point, you endlessly ramble about how clever you are, but you are unable to provide a single fact to prove anything you claim. The only thing you do mange to prove is how idiotic you are.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @neutral

    Wow, is your confirmation bias something fierce. Please move downwind.

  43. anon[281] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus
    @anon

    YOU live in that same bubble, friend.

    Increasingly, we are subject to falling prey to confirmation bias. People do it instinctively when confronted with attitude-inconsistent information. When someone attempts to inform them of their misconceptions, rather than take it under advisement, it “backfires”, which in effect makes them less skeptical of what they believe in, since obviously the other side is rife with their own false impressions. Thus, one continues to see their own position as “true and proper”. Of course, the argument stems from what is and what is not a misconception, whether it be “race realism” or “white privilege”, which ends up being a feedback loop.

    It is virtually impossible to argue with those people who cling on this “Fake New” or “the media always lies” meme. Any fact brought brought into an argument, they immediately attack the SOURCE, rather than the substance. Thus, it is easy to deny there is ANY evidence at all. This phenomenon has been brewing for a long time (thanks, Trump :)), and it has reached a critical mass at our point in world history. Unfortunately, this leads more people to become ignorant by facilitating echo chambers. So the mentality of "Fake News/the media always lies" is EXACTLY THE SAME as those who spout off how “Jewish run media conglomerates control the narrative” since a person filters anything that dares to disrupt their world view.

    There is an HbD inspired explanation for being duped. We as a species have this impulsive cognition-–the seat of emotion, of sense of self, of phobias, and of herding behavior. The limbic system of the brain has its neurons fire faster and with greater amplitude than in the cerebral cortex, so it literally drowns out rational mindedness. There are a myriad of examples that this snap-decision system is controlling what we think.

    Belief comes first, with our biases are held in the brain immediately above the brainstem, and they are the central control room for everything coming into the brain. Nothing will pass these filters, so it is virtually essentially impossible to “change someone’s mind” via persuasion. A person's filters have to fall first. Otherwise, they will simply go into shoot the messenger mode when, for example, WaPO and NYT are used as sources. There was an emotional hypostasis to it that TRIGGERED in their brain an endorphin rush of self-righteousness.

    As a counter, here is the advice of Ron Unz…


    I apply the same historical methods I did in my academic journal articles back in the 1980’s. You analyze the likely reliability of the raw information presented, look for confirming or refuting evidence, and then draw your own plausible conclusions…On a more serious note, many of my articles very heavily cite various MSM sources, so why would I do that if I believed they were always lying?”
     

    Replies: @neutral, @anon, @Audacious Epigone

    YOU live in that same bubble, friend.

    Lol, you should be better at lying than this, given that you get so much practice.

    On a daily basis I’m surrounded and immersed in libtardy. The point of view you are paid to push here? It’s all around me every day, even when I attempt to avoid it.

    My confidence in the propaganda industry commonly called “the press” was low years ago, and the blatant lying of recent years has only increased my contempt. Paid liars are boring and deserve nothing more than scorn from thinking people.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @anon

    How do you account for Ron Unz’s advice? Is he wrong? Why?

  44. Try an old Firesign Theatre version: Confidenz In The Press

  45. I wrote this about the nice White Christian ladies who enjoy their Hallmark Channel entertainment and I gave them some advice and a modest proposal as to how to defend and advance their interests regarding the nasty and vicious attacks emanating from the evil and treasonous corporate propaganda apparatus.

    My Swiftian modest proposal for the WHITE MOM MILITIA from December of 2019:

    One Million White Moms who watch that disgusting sappy crybaby gushing stupid slop TV entertainment should radicalize like bastards and destroy the evil and immoral Republican Party.

    It is the rancid and evil Republican Party that cravenly capitulates to the filthy shyster slobs in the propaganda outlets and the internet corporations and the corporate propaganda apparatus.

    One Million White Moms who watch that stupid sentimental cruddy crap on the boob tube should begin getting ready for Civil War II by learning tactics helpful in legally and forcefully taking control of all elements of the corporate propaganda apparatus.

    I want those damn angry harpy bastards in the One Million White Mom Militia to go after the sonofabitches in the disgusting and vile advertising business scams and all the other crap that entwines itself with the anti-American and anti-White and anti-Christian and anti-White Mom corporate propaganda apparatus.

    I want the White Mom Militia to know that high intensity guerrilla fighting and light cavalry and reconnaissance-in-force fighting will help them lose some of the holiday fat that accumulates during the Christmas season. So the chubby and cheerful White Moms who love the USA will be multi-tasking when they targetize and destroy their enemies using nasty and vicious tactics. Lose weight while fighting for your family!

    The White Mom Militia might even ask some of the men folk who ain’t fat or out of shape boobs to help them defeat the evil scum who run and control the corporate propaganda apparatus and the advertising scam shop outfits.

    The White Mom Militia can be stylish and eat all the delicious food and eggnog they like while they’re burning off calories fighting against the enemies of the historic American nation.

    Some of the White Mom Militia who feel they can’t contribute to the fierce fighting but are grimly determined to fight for the USA can act as nurses or cooks or intelligence operatives.

    Perhaps as an icebreaker the White Mom Militia can set up a screening of Apocalypse Now for the men folk to get them in the mood to use their primordial bloodlust to help the White Mom Militia defeat its enemies.

    Remember, the White Mom Militia doesn’t get much USO and their R and R is a little bit of baloney and some rice, but they will win because they have the WARRIOR SPIRIT of George Washington and Andrew Jackson on their side.

    Attention non-Whites and non-Christians who have stolen your way into ownership of the corporate propaganda apparatus: The White Mom Militia is gonna smash you all to bloody Hell!

    Once the bloodlust is up and it will not be slaked the White Mom Militia will turn and wheel on the coward scum whores in the Republican Party who won’t fight to protect and defend the USA or the historic American nation. The White Mom Militia will tell that treasonous skunk Mitch McConnell that they will no longer tolerate an unpatriotic puke like McConnell any longer.

    Mitch McConnell voted for Reagan’s nation-killing 1986 amnesty for illegal alien invaders and McConnell has crawled into bed with shady elements connected to the Chinese Communist Party.

    The White Mom Militia must attack and destroy the rancid Republican Party and the evil and immoral money-grubbing globalizer scum in the corporate propaganda apparatus.

    DESTROY THE EVIL REPUBLICAN PARTY NOW!

    DESTROY THE CORPORATE PROPAGANDA APPARATUS NOW!

    https://www.unz.com/estriker/one-million-moms-put-in-their-place-by-capital/#comment-3617936

  46. Tweets from 2015:

  47. @dfordoom
    @WorkingClass


    Indeed. Trump was the devine wind beneith their wings. They can still hate the Deplorables and they do. But the Deplorables are 75 million faceless nobodies. A poor substitute for a GIANT ORANGE HITLER.
     
    I think you have it the wrong way round. Liberals didn't really hate Trump. Trump was and is a liberal. It was Trump's supporters that they hated.

    Liberals had always hated the Deplorables but before 2016 they assumed they were no great threat and would soon die off. 2016 convinced liberals that the Deplorables were an existential threat.

    The hatred of Trump was just a symbol of their hatred of the Deplorables.

    Replies: @WorkingClass

    The hatred of Trump was just a symbol of their hatred of the Deplorables.

    That spike in the liberal line has nothing to do with confidence. It’s about love. They love CNN because CNN hates Trump. Or if you prefer, because CNN hates Deplorables.

  48. @neutral
    @Corvinus

    You don't have a point, you endlessly ramble about how clever you are, but you are unable to provide a single fact to prove anything you claim. The only thing you do mange to prove is how idiotic you are.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    Wow, is your confirmation bias something fierce. Please move downwind.

  49. @Barack Obama's secret Unz account
    A problem is how one defines "the press". I suspect that many with a poor opinion of the press make a mental exception for the press they prefer.

    To the average liberal, the New York Times is a plucky underdog, part of a small embattled band of truth tellers holding the line against Rupert Murdoch, who controls all other press and rules over his evil media empire with an iron fist, relentlessly brainwashing the masses into opposing the true and the good, e.g. windfarms, the NHS, and the surgical removal of as many testicles as possible

    Replies: @dfordoom

    A problem is how one defines “the press”. I suspect that many with a poor opinion of the press make a mental exception for the press they prefer.

    I think that’s how most people see it. Liberals believe that most of the media is dominated by evil right-wingers with only a handful of brave dissidents like the New York Times. Conservatives believe that most of the media is dominated by evil left-wingers with only a handful of brave dissidents like Fox News. The far right believes that most of the media is dominated by communists, apart from a handful of brave truth-tellers in the alternative media.

    Most people believe that their own side is honest and that their enemies are all liars.

  50. @neutral
    @Firefinga

    Even with the heaviest of propaganda, going after brown people because they don't do homo worship is a very hard sell. That is why Russia is such a useful enemy to have.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    Even with the heaviest of propaganda, going after brown people because they don’t do homo worship is a very hard sell.

    I think it would be an easy sell. Ordinary people love war. It’s more popular than football. You just have to give them an excuse to hate some other country and they’ll be wildly cheering on the bombing.

    It’s human nature to want somebody to blame, somebody to serve as a scapegoat. Making war makes ordinary people feel better. It gives meaning to their empty miserable lives.

  51. anonymous[174] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon
    The media’s knob-slobbering, ring-kissing, bootlicking deference to and running interference for the Biden administration isn’t going to sustain liberals in the same way their acrimony towards Trump did.

    It is too soon to tell. Truly, it is. I have neighbors and other people around with "Hate Has No Home Here" signs who totally live in the bubble; they listen to "Morning Edition", "Fresh Air" and "All Things Considered"; they read the NY Times, the Atlantic, Nation, etc.; some view Rachel Maddow and Don Lemon and the PBS News Hour. They consider the mainstream press to be bold truth-tellers, not bootlickers; they are firmly behind defending Bi-den and don't consider anything to be a coverup...now. Two years ago they regarded the border crisis as 'complicated' but now it's simple. Kids in cages? No, that was Trump! Not happening now! If it is, there's some kind of mistake! Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

    Last year's riots peaceful protest events didn't ding their faith in the revealed Narrative at all. To be honest, I am not sure what could actually dissuade their total trust in the MSM. Not sure at all.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @My SIMPLE Pseudonymic Handle, @MattinLA, @Corvinus, @anonymous, @Audacious Epigone

    You must live in my neighborhood and work where I do because I have the exact same experience. These people eat, sleep, and breathe the corporate media. Telling them that Anderson Cooper or Charles Blow might just possibly be yanking their chain once in a while would be like telling a medieval peasant that god and Jesus don’t really exist.

  52. @anon
    @Corvinus

    YOU live in that same bubble, friend.

    Lol, you should be better at lying than this, given that you get so much practice.

    On a daily basis I'm surrounded and immersed in libtardy. The point of view you are paid to push here? It's all around me every day, even when I attempt to avoid it.

    My confidence in the propaganda industry commonly called "the press" was low years ago, and the blatant lying of recent years has only increased my contempt. Paid liars are boring and deserve nothing more than scorn from thinking people.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    How do you account for Ron Unz’s advice? Is he wrong? Why?

  53. @anon
    The media’s knob-slobbering, ring-kissing, bootlicking deference to and running interference for the Biden administration isn’t going to sustain liberals in the same way their acrimony towards Trump did.

    It is too soon to tell. Truly, it is. I have neighbors and other people around with "Hate Has No Home Here" signs who totally live in the bubble; they listen to "Morning Edition", "Fresh Air" and "All Things Considered"; they read the NY Times, the Atlantic, Nation, etc.; some view Rachel Maddow and Don Lemon and the PBS News Hour. They consider the mainstream press to be bold truth-tellers, not bootlickers; they are firmly behind defending Bi-den and don't consider anything to be a coverup...now. Two years ago they regarded the border crisis as 'complicated' but now it's simple. Kids in cages? No, that was Trump! Not happening now! If it is, there's some kind of mistake! Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

    Last year's riots peaceful protest events didn't ding their faith in the revealed Narrative at all. To be honest, I am not sure what could actually dissuade their total trust in the MSM. Not sure at all.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @My SIMPLE Pseudonymic Handle, @MattinLA, @Corvinus, @anonymous, @Audacious Epigone

    A decade ago before the podcast revolution rendered corporate media a waste of time for anyone with an IQ above room temperature, I’d listen to All Things Considered. Total misnomer. Nothing outside the left-liberal take was ever considered.

  54. @Supply and Demand
    @WorkingClass

    It’s very easy to hate deplorables —Trump was just a useful avatar.

    Replies: @My SIMPLE Pseudonymic Handle, @Audacious Epigone

    Most liberals don’t like the idea of picking on powerless people, even people they don’t like. Trump is much easier for them to hate than some prole living in a shack in Appalachia. They view those people with a mix of pity and disdain, but it’s not the same as the red hot hatred they have for Trump.

  55. @unit472
    I think this kind of survey misses a key fact. The 'press', news media or whatever you want to call it has changed over the years. 21st century news' is unrecognizable from late 20th century news. The TV networks once had 'news bureaus'. If a story broke in London or Tokyo they had reporters on scene to give you first hand reports. Dan Rather went to Afghanistan, not with American forces, but with Afghan rebels fighting the USSR. TV news just doesn't have the money to do on scene reporting anymore and neither do the newspapers so they fill their airtime and pages with talking heads, opinion pieces and human interest stories of a liberal slant. There is no more NEWS.

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    Indeed. A lot of what journos do these days–for work!–are gossip about tweets.

  56. @Corvinus
    @anon

    YOU live in that same bubble, friend.

    Increasingly, we are subject to falling prey to confirmation bias. People do it instinctively when confronted with attitude-inconsistent information. When someone attempts to inform them of their misconceptions, rather than take it under advisement, it “backfires”, which in effect makes them less skeptical of what they believe in, since obviously the other side is rife with their own false impressions. Thus, one continues to see their own position as “true and proper”. Of course, the argument stems from what is and what is not a misconception, whether it be “race realism” or “white privilege”, which ends up being a feedback loop.

    It is virtually impossible to argue with those people who cling on this “Fake New” or “the media always lies” meme. Any fact brought brought into an argument, they immediately attack the SOURCE, rather than the substance. Thus, it is easy to deny there is ANY evidence at all. This phenomenon has been brewing for a long time (thanks, Trump :)), and it has reached a critical mass at our point in world history. Unfortunately, this leads more people to become ignorant by facilitating echo chambers. So the mentality of "Fake News/the media always lies" is EXACTLY THE SAME as those who spout off how “Jewish run media conglomerates control the narrative” since a person filters anything that dares to disrupt their world view.

    There is an HbD inspired explanation for being duped. We as a species have this impulsive cognition-–the seat of emotion, of sense of self, of phobias, and of herding behavior. The limbic system of the brain has its neurons fire faster and with greater amplitude than in the cerebral cortex, so it literally drowns out rational mindedness. There are a myriad of examples that this snap-decision system is controlling what we think.

    Belief comes first, with our biases are held in the brain immediately above the brainstem, and they are the central control room for everything coming into the brain. Nothing will pass these filters, so it is virtually essentially impossible to “change someone’s mind” via persuasion. A person's filters have to fall first. Otherwise, they will simply go into shoot the messenger mode when, for example, WaPO and NYT are used as sources. There was an emotional hypostasis to it that TRIGGERED in their brain an endorphin rush of self-righteousness.

    As a counter, here is the advice of Ron Unz…


    I apply the same historical methods I did in my academic journal articles back in the 1980’s. You analyze the likely reliability of the raw information presented, look for confirming or refuting evidence, and then draw your own plausible conclusions…On a more serious note, many of my articles very heavily cite various MSM sources, so why would I do that if I believed they were always lying?”
     

    Replies: @neutral, @anon, @Audacious Epigone

    Jonathan Haidt memorably describes reason as the rider, emotions as the elephant. The elephant is going to go where it wants to go, especially when it gets riled up. The rider is mostly at its mercy.

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