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Biden/Harris Net Favorability Negative from the Get-Go
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At the time of his first inaugural, president Obama had a net approval rating of +54. That is unthinkable today. When president Trump was sworn in, by contrast, his net approval rating was -2.

We may have entered a stage in our terminal national decline where no president will ever enjoy positive net favorability for any significant period time, if ever again at all. As trust, infrastructure, the currency, and any sense of shared identity continue to break down on the way to the country itself doing so, it’s difficult to see how a presidential candidate who makes it through the rigged system will ever manage to come out in positive territory. Joe Biden and Kamala Harris won’t be doing so. They are in negative territory from the get-go:

These figures come from a poll in which Biden voters comprised 65% of the two-way election sample. Just 35% of survey participants were Trump voters. Despite this massive Democrat oversampling, the ratings are still negative during the incoming administration’s transitional period.

 
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  1. Chad Biden clearly has the machismo Latinos like. Also LOL at him being more favorable than Kamala.

    • Replies: @Jay Fink
  2. Dumbo says:

    LOL. Not even blacks trust Kabbalah Harris. Well why would they trust a half-Indian married to a Jew. Just because she sucked her way to the top.

    If he’s even sworn in, Biden will be dead or retired before finishing his first year so it’s going to be President Harris one way or another – Time Magazine “Person of the year” implied so.

    She has zero charisma and she’s going to be the most hated president of all times; maybe it’s on purpose.

  3. Aha, an algebra problem. This is fun. Here we go …

    [MORE]

    Supposing that independents were one third of the electorate, based on your chart, the pollster would seem to have reweighted responses to represent an electorate that were 36 percent Democratic and 30 percent Republican.

    Alternately, supposing that independents were only one quarter of the electorate, based on your chart, the pollster would seem to have reweighted responses to represent an electorate that were 40 percent Democratic and 35 percent Republican.

    Generally, supposing that independents were x percent of the electorate, the pollster would seem to have reweighted responses to represent an electorate that were [50.6 – (0.427)x] percent Democratic and [49.4 – (0.573)x] percent Republican.

    Few sensible readers will wade through the above algebra, of course, yet overall: the poll samples too few Republicans but, to compensate, seems to have lent each Republican response heavier weight.

    Whether the compensation is sufficient is another question.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  4. The disapproval can only get worse as Biden-Harris, who obviously won the current Presidential election only by an unprecedented level of coordinated ballot fraud, oversee an economy which decades of fatal policies have reduced to an unsalvagable level, a society riven by irreconcilable political, ethnic and racial divisions, and a political system that appears to be completely corrupt and utterly dysfunctional.

    I have predicted that owning responsibility for the administration of the USA over the next four years is such an obvious political hot potato that the dimocrat-stupid-party establishment will conspire to make some sacrificial non- entity, other than Biden-Harris or Trump-Pence, the President. That’s the only way the establishment can avoid blame for what is about to hit this country. I won’t be convinced otherwise until the inauguration proves me wrong.

    • Agree: V. K. Ovelund
    • Replies: @Dr. Charles Fhandrich
  5. Jay Fink says:
    @Supply and Demand

    This is not surprising in the least. Just look how Biden crushed Harris during the primaries. If Harris was on top of the ticket Trump would have won.

    • Agree: zimriel
  6. Realist says:

    It doesn’t matter Biden or Harris’ favorability…the Deep State has chosen them to be your ersatz leaders…it is not up for discussion.

    • Replies: @MBlanc46
  7. more circumstantial evidence that the election was rigged, not that it matters now. Biden is deeply unpopular and nobody cares about him. Harris even more so. there’s no way they got 12 million more votes than Obama got when he was net positive favorable. the most votes in history by 7 million.

    when Trump makes a important twitter video, he gets 15 million views. when he has a rally, 20,000 people show up and 100,000 watch on the stream. when Biden streams on the internet he can’t even get 1000 viewers. when he does an in-person appearance he can’t get 100 people to show up.

    all of the Biden-Harris election number results are once in history type stuff, directly contradicting 150 years of election references. people do vote against candidates, but that drives less votes than people voting with enthusiasm FOR candidates. nobody voted with enthusiasm FOR Joe Biden, so how did he get that many votes in all those states?

    just another data point in a collection of them that the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming that Democrats had a coordinated, national cheating operation going on.

    • Replies: @216
    , @dfordoom
  8. Obama was +54 only because Core Americans were still under the guise and trickery of leftists and their MLK campaign, among other programs of brainwashing for 60 years.

    he would be negative today. enough people know now that’s all just leftist bullshit and Obama hates America. any other political operators of his ilk are more quickly identified today as anti-American leftists.

    speaking of that, i saw that a ‘British” double agent from the Cold War died today in Russia. i had never heard of George Blake, so i went to read about him and surprise surprise, real name George Behar, a jewish traitor from Spain.

    i only read about it at first because i don’t remember hearing about many British double agents. only took a minute before i realized this guy wasn’t one.

    • Replies: @fnn
    , @dfordoom
  9. fnn says:
    @prime noticer

    In 2012, he celebrated his 90th birthday, still living in Moscow on a KGB pension. His eyesight was failing and he claimed to be “virtually blind”. He remained a committed Marxist–Leninist. Blake denied being a traitor, insisting that he had never felt British: “To betray, you first have to belong. I never belonged.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Blake

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  10. anon[173] • Disclaimer says:

    This time series just shows where the MSM focused their collective resources.

    Obama was portrayed as the greatest person in history. Hence his high positives.

    For the last 4 years the MSM has focused on an endless 5-minute hate for Trump, aided by those Washington Generals Republicans crippled by TDS.

    During the Current Year there’s been little effort on pimping pumping up Creepy Joe, so the inherent negatives he and Kamalawanzaa have remain unadjusted. Next year a full on press of only positive messages regarding those two can be expected, and their polling will reflect that.

    It will be no trick at all to portray Kamasutra as a wise something-or-other. No trick. At all.

    • Agree: AceDeuce
    • Replies: @nebulafox
  11. 216 says:

    I see it as a mistake for the Right to have attempted to contest the election (fraud), and swat away the “unity” offer at a time when the far-left was weakened.

    I think its obvious that Harris will be the nominee in 2024, but she might actually draw a much stronger far-left challenger.

    Some older men were OK with Biden, but not with Harris

  12. 216 says:
    @prime noticer

    Trump will be banned from Twitter on Jan. 21st

    Without Twitter, he follows the path of Milo, Gavin and Molyneux, into irrelevancy.

    Mainstream platform access is sadly vital in our society. On principle I don’t use any of the platforms, but even many partisans won’t quit Twitter for Gab, Telegram or Parler.

    While most Presidents have become more popular after leaving office, Trump probably will become less popular, as Congressmen start fearing him less and return to cuckoldry.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    , @AP
  13. dfordoom says: • Website
    @prime noticer

    more circumstantial evidence that the election was rigged, not that it matters now. Biden is deeply unpopular and nobody cares about him. Harris even more so. there’s no way they got 12 million more votes than Obama got when he was net positive favorable. the most votes in history by 7 million.

    You’re missing the crucial point which is that the people who voted for Biden were not voting for Biden, they were voting against Trump. They didn’t care who the Democrat candidate was, they just wanted Trump gone.

    The election was essentially a one-issue election. It was a referendum on whether Trump should remain president or whether he should go. And people on both the “Trump must stay” and “Trump must go” sides were incredibly highly motivated. Unfortunately for Trump the “Trump must go” side outnumbered the “Trump must stay” side.

    There has never before been an election in which the sole issue was the president himself.

    Given that it was an election like no other it’s only to be expected that voter behaviour was going to be very different compared to other elections. And people on both the pro-Trump and anti-Trump sides really saw the question of whether Trump should go as being much more important than any ordinary election. Both sides saw it as a matter of survival – the pro-Trump side thought the country was doomed if he lost while the anti-Trump thought the country was doomed if he won. Therefore it was only to be expected that both pro-Trump and anti-Trump voters voted in unprecedented numbers.

    So it’s not the least bit surprising that voter turnout was abnormally high and it’s not surprising that the election did not conform to the normal patterns. It was not a normal election.

    Biden himself was completely irrelevant. It would have made no difference which candidate the Democrats chose the result would have been exactly the same.

    What Trump supporters and populists have to face is that the people who hated Trump outnumbered the people who loved him. He was something new – a populist who was relatively unpopular.

    • Agree: Nodwink, Corvinus
    • Replies: @Pericles
  14. dfordoom says: • Website
    @prime noticer

    Obama was +54 only because Core Americans were still under the guise and trickery of leftists and their MLK campaign, among other programs of brainwashing for 60 years.

    he would be negative today. enough people know now that’s all just leftist bullshit and Obama hates America. any other political operators of his ilk are more quickly identified today as anti-American leftists.

    I suspect that if Obama were allowed to run in 2024 he would win in a landslide.

    • Disagree: iffen
    • Replies: @AceDeuce
  15. dfordoom says: • Website
    @fnn

    He remained a committed Marxist–Leninist. Blake denied being a traitor

    Betrayal is a complicated thing. Which is worse – betraying your country or your beliefs?

    Even betraying one’s country is complicated. Is a person actually betraying his country, or is he betraying the present regime, or the present government?

    Kim Philby did not consider himself to be a traitor. He believed he was serving his country by serving the cause of communism.

    What about the American Revolutionaries? Didn’t they decide that loyalty to a cause was more important than loyalty to country? They were technically traitors but they thought that their treason to their king and to the established government was justified by their cause.

    Is there any real difference between the motivations of Kim Philby and the motivations of America’s Founding Fathers?

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    , @Hibernian
  16. nebulafox says:
    @dfordoom

    >Is there any real difference between the motivations of Kim Philby and the motivations of America’s Founding Fathers?

    That Kim Philby believed in a demonstrated genocidal sociopath and an ideology that functionally reduced men to deterministic bacterium, and the Founding Fathers believed in the Enlightenment, however imperfectly?

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @dfordoom
  17. nebulafox says:
    @anon

    Obama was viewed with such intense emotionalism because he was everything that America’s liberal upper-middle class wanted to believe in: whether it was how history worked, or how they worked, or whatever. Both the intense hatred and the intense love were precisely because he epitomized New America.

    That was a one-time deal that Harris cannot hope to replicate.

    >It will be no trick at all to portray Kamasutra as a wise something-or-other. No trick. At all.

    It’s not going to be for a lack of effort, but they can’t hide the reality that Kamala Harris just does not seem like a reasonable, likeable person who you’d instinctively trust with your interests, at least if you are outside the gentry/mandarinate class. Put more crudely, she reeks of a mixture of MBA school and the HR department, and like Hillary Clinton, she doesn’t do a good job of disguising her distaste for vast swathes of the American public.

    Is this going to stop her from being POTUS, de facto or otherwise, or the media intensely covering for her? Absolutely not. But it’s not going to have the same effectiveness. Part of that is the MSM utterly discrediting themselves to increasing amounts of Americans, especially over the past year, but part of that is also just her.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  18. dfordoom says: • Website
    @nebulafox

    >Is there any real difference between the motivations of Kim Philby and the motivations of America’s Founding Fathers?

    That Kim Philby believed in a demonstrated genocidal sociopath and an ideology that functionally reduced men to deterministic bacterium, and the Founding Fathers believed in the Enlightenment, however imperfectly?

    In both cases it was a sincere belief in an ideal. And a sincere belief that loyalty to an ideal justified betrayal of the legitimate government. So the motivations were pretty much identical.

    • Replies: @Brian Reilly
  19. dfordoom says: • Website
    @nebulafox

    Is this going to stop her from being POTUS, de facto or otherwise, or the media intensely covering for her? Absolutely not. But it’s not going to have the same effectiveness.

    She doesn’t need to be loved. She just needs to be regarded with less distaste than whatever candidate the Republicans put up in 2024. The lesson of 2024 is that these days voters are more intensely motivated by hatred than love. You just need to be less hated than your opponent.

    If her opponent is Trump she’ll win in 2024.

    • Replies: @216
    , @nebulafox
  20. 216 says:

    Wokeservatism

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
  21. 216 says:
    @dfordoom

    And the Culture Industry will ensure that any GOP nominee is defamed to the maximum extent possible. Big Tech will ban anything to the Right of Bin Shapiro.

    Even before we get to the election fraud issue, the elections aren’t “Free and Fair”, our media is probably more biased than the Russian media.

    GOP voters, let alone legislators, seem oblivious to this. People have crawled back to sports (and more will be back after Covid), and the audience will crawl back to Fox News too, or else be trapped in additional grifter channels.

    Maybe Ron can start UnzTV

  22. @216

    It was always a strategic mistake for the Right to rely on platforms its foes control.

    Without Twitter, [Trump] follows the path of Milo, Gavin and Molyneux, into irrelevancy.

    Do you think so? We’ll see.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  23. AceDeuce says:

    Well, I mean……If the American public wanted Pedo Joezheimer in the Oval, he would have already been voted in long ago. But back then, he was soundly rejected-exposed as a hack, a liar, and a fool.

    What shred of goodwill he has gained was due to BO picking him as VP–as Trump aptly said, BO picked Pedo Joe off the scrap heap. Even 8 years of playing an Ed McMahon sycophantic sidekick to BO really didn’t move the needle for the Delaware Sniffer.

    The public in 2020, dumbed down as they are, roundly rejected him–until Kingfish Clyburn had the kneegrows vote en masse in the SC primary. I’m sure there are a few c olored boy “rev’rums” down there driving new Cadillacs, and there was plenty of menthol cigs and malt liquor handed out, but it worked. I’d like to see what Clyburn got in return.

    Kumshotta or whatever her name is, is even less likable and more incompetent. Joezheimer got her off the scrapheap because negro(ish) and because woman.

    P.S. Those bar charts in the article provide conclusive proof of the stupidity of blacks.

  24. nebulafox says:
    @dfordoom

    >She just needs to be regarded with less distaste than whatever candidate the Republicans put up in 2024.

    Yes. And it’s precisely this that I doubt will happen. I strongly suspect the GOPe is going to try to revert the clock back to Zombie Reaganism, having learned nothing and forgotten nothing, and it’ll backfire spectacularly.

    >If her opponent is Trump she’ll win in 2024.

    The populist insurgent who is going to come in 2024 or 2028 is likely to be more competent and focused than Donald Trump: not a high bar, but you don’t need to cross a high bar to be more appealing than the modern Democrats, least of all after four years of Harris.

    >In both cases it was a sincere belief in an ideal. And a sincere belief that loyalty to an ideal justified betrayal of the legitimate government. So the motivations were pretty much identical.

    The Founding Fathers were not interested in subsuming the entire world to totalitarianism on the behalf of a foreign power.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @dfordoom
  25. AceDeuce says:
    @dfordoom

    “I suspect that if Obama were allowed to run in 2024 he would win in a landslide.”

    Sad, but true–although depending on the opponent, not a landslide. He probably would win, though. Younger, dumber whites are coming of age every day, and older ones with common sense are dying every day. Just wait until 20 years from now. Hoo boy, will this place be fooked.

    Hell, I bet that if they ran his “better half”, AKA Big D!ck Mike, she, er, I mean he, um, I mean they/them would win.

    Of course, the more that white cucks experience the actual governance of these cretins, some will have their eyes opened. Hard to say, though. I think a lot of whites jumped ship after four years of Obama. I think that, to win, BO and the Dems cheated in 2012. I think that Romney actually won.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  26. MBlanc46 says:
    @Realist

    Well put, Realist. They do not care what we think.

    • Thanks: Realist
  27. dfordoom says: • Website
    @V. K. Ovelund

    It was always a strategic mistake for the Right to rely on platforms its foes control.

    There aren’t any alternative platforms if you want to reach a mass audience. And any alternative platforms that emerge will be right-wing echo chambers of no relevance. Unless you know of any multi-billionaires willing to flush hundreds of millions of dollars down the toilet trying to create viable alternatives.

    So either you fight on the platforms that exist or you don’t. And if you don’t you lose anyway.

    Actually the platforms that do exist are controlled by the Right – it’s just that they’re controlled by the Economic Right not the Cultural Right. The Economic Right is firmly in control.

  28. dfordoom says: • Website
    @nebulafox

    The Founding Fathers were not interested in subsuming the entire world to totalitarianism on the behalf of a foreign power.

    But do you accept the principle that treason to one’s country can be justified by belief in an ideal? George Washington and Co certainly thought so.

    As a general principle is it worse to betray your country or to betray your beliefs?

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  29. dfordoom says: • Website
    @nebulafox

    >She just needs to be regarded with less distaste than whatever candidate the Republicans put up in 2024.

    Yes. And it’s precisely this that I doubt will happen. I strongly suspect the GOPe is going to try to revert the clock back to Zombie Reaganism, having learned nothing and forgotten nothing, and it’ll backfire spectacularly.

    Yeah, there’ll be a huge push by the GOP(e) to get a traditional mainstream Republican nominated.

    Jeb Bush in 2024! If Joe Biden can win so can Jeb. And Jeb will be 71, the ideal age to run as a youthful alternative.

    The populist insurgent who is going to come in 2024 or 2028 is likely to be more competent and focused than Donald Trump: not a high bar, but you don’t need to cross a high bar to be more appealing than the modern Democrats, least of all after four years of Harris.

    Maybe. But if the vaccine works, the lockdowns are ended and the economy is recovering well the Democrat incumbent will be riding high in the polls. So a great deal depends on the vaccine and the economy.

    And you’re assuming there’s going to be a populist insurgent. Be careful what you wish for – you might get Ivanka!

  30. dfordoom says: • Website
    @AceDeuce

    “I suspect that if Obama were allowed to run in 2024 he would win in a landslide.”

    Sad, but true–although depending on the opponent, not a landslide. He probably would win, though. Younger, dumber whites are coming of age every day, and older ones with common sense are dying every day. Just wait until 20 years from now. Hoo boy, will this place be fooked.

    Once the Boomers die off it will be full speed ahead to the glorious totalitarian future.

    Concepts like freedom and privacy will die with the Boomers.

    • Disagree: Corvinus
    • Replies: @nebulafox
  31. @Jus' Sayin'...

    Well said. Anyone who really thinks that Biden won this election legitimately is either willfully deluding themselves or has not paid attention to the creepy behavior of the Democrats, the establishment media and big tech, as they have repeatedly refused to examine overwhelming evidence that proves beyond a doubt that this election was stolen from Trump and is the most gross example of election fraud in American history. Yet, it goes far beyond this, in that Biden is a criminal by any other name.. His son and extended family are also criminally guilty of colluding with foreign nations, the worst of which is China, for their own financial benefit. It’s organized cover up by the democratic leadership, some of the Republican leadership, the establishment media, big tech and even the Supreme Court.. It’s right in front of every American that has his or her eyes and ears open.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  32. F.A. Hayek in The Road To Serfdom explained that the more power delegated to a central collective authority, the less happy people will be. People do not have a uniform set of comprehensive values. There is no calculus for weighing competing values (is more breast cancer research better than improved public transportation? if so to what exact extent?)

    Agreeing to turn things over to a central authority without identical values is like agreeing to go on a trip without agreeing on the destination and route. With the millions of places one might visit the most popular destination in the group could have a fraction support. The majority of people will end up going someplace they do not want to go.

    Now that DC determines everything with unlimited power, we are going on a trip that most do not want.

    • Agree: V. K. Ovelund
  33. AP says:
    @216

    Without Twitter, he follows the path of Milo, Gavin and Molyneux, into irrelevancy.

    Are his working class fans really on Twitter though? I have no idea, but I suspect they watch Foxnews or listen to AM radio for information. According to this Pew study from last year just 22% of Americans had Twitter (but only 10% wee responsible for 80% of content), and users skewed young, wealthy, and Democratic:

    https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2019/04/24/sizing-up-twitter-users/

    So banning Trump from Twitter won’t separate him from his base or from many potential neutral voters. Banning would just take him off the radar for journalists who use Twitter. It might make him less relevant for people in the journalist or university bubbles, but not for the general public.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  34. Corvinus says:
    @Dr. Charles Fhandrich

    “Anyone who really thinks that Biden won this election legitimately is…”

    Spot on. Refer to Comment 13. In 2016, Trump won largely because of Shitlery’s unpopularity. In 2020, Trump lost because of his own unpopularity. Indeed, he got 74 million votes, but that was because of high voter turnout across the board. “Voter turnout in 2020 was relatively higher in large battleground states with large urban areas,” said DePaul University political scientist Wayne Steger. “Turnout in states won by Biden was 43% greater in 2020 than in 2008.”

    Is it not reasonable to believe that just enough voters had decided on their own accord to NOT support him in 2020, much in the same manner that just enough voters chose of their own volition to NOT support Shitlery in 2016? Why?

    “examine overwhelming evidence that proves beyond a doubt that this election was stolen from Trump and is the most gross example of election fraud in American history. ”

    Clearly, you have been programmed.

    https://www.eipartnership.net/rapid-response/repeat-offenders

    Three of the repeat offender accounts we’ve identified represent right-wing, partisan media outlets (Breitbart, The Gateway Pundit, and Just the News), and one account, Josh Caplan, is an editor for Breitbart. These accounts often go further than resharing or decontextualizing content: they also rewrite news stories originally reported by other outlets, and republish them with a new and often misleading partisan framing. In the stories we’ve analyzed, these outlets modify headlines and add sentences to suggest that individual election and mail irregularities represent widespread fraud and electoral uncertainty. These outlets were outliers from the other news organizations in our dataset, because they both appeared in many different incidents that we analyzed, and their content was often shared widely on Twitter.

    Prime among these partisan outlets were the Gateway Pundit and Breitbart. These sites were cited in 21 and 19 of the 43 incidents, respectively, making them the first and second most-referenced website domains in our dataset. Across all incidents, Breitbart was retweeted over 151,000 times and the Gateway Pundit was retweeted over 117,000 times, again first and second among all the websites we analyzed. They had multiple stories shared widely across Twitter, with 10 stories from the Gateway Pundit reaching over 1,000 total retweets, and six stories from Breitbart reaching the same threshold, again first and second in our dataset. Only 12 other media outlets had more than one such story, 8 of which were also partisan sites doing little to no original reporting (Just the News, The Sara Carter Show, The National File, the Epoch Times, The Federalist, Hannity.com, Jeffrey Lord, and the Washington Examiner.

    Of course, perhaps you can show us all how:

    1) the U.S. Army seized servers for Dominion in Germany;

    2) Trump’s cyber team has clear proof that Dominion machines in Ware County, GA and Antrim County, MI , votes had been purposely switched for Biden -and-

    3) Trump will invoke the Insurrection Act and declare martial law by the end of December.

  35. Pericles says:
    @dfordoom

    Sure, let’s just conveniently forget that the election was blatantly stolen.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    , @nebulafox
  36. https://www.scribd.com/document/489011066/Schoolhouserights-org-Nevada-Complaint#from_embed
    check out the education they get in nevada,, 1 brave boy and his mother is fighting back against racism and oppression in the school bc of his skincolor.(not burn loot murder extremist but a pale skinned mulatto)

  37. nebulafox says:
    @dfordoom

    Depends on the ideal. We look on people who betrayed the Third Reich as heroes because the ideals of that country were, well, evil. To choose a more salient example, people today generally think that owning other human beings as property is evil, hence why Confederate fanboys go to ludicrous lengths to deny the obvious. Revolting over taxes may or may not be justifiable, depending on your POV, but I don’t think many people would put that in the same moral category.

    Furthermore, part of the point of the whole conflict revolved around the reality that the revolutionaries did not consider themselves British any longer by 1776. If it isn’t your country anymore because the authorities across the pond abandoned their side of the bargain, then it isn’t treason unless you lose, right? It took a couple of decades of fermentation (and some of the issues had roots that go back to the notion of inherent rights that the English Revolution fought about a century earlier that survived in a more virulent form in the colonies) for things to get to that point, but once they did, things quickly took a life of their own, because even the American sympathizers in Parliament who thought the war was a bad idea from the get-go didn’t question Parliament’s right to tax if they so chose. And of course, many colonists became Loyalists, precisely because they still viewed themselves as British.

    >Jeb Bush in 2024! If Joe Biden can win so can Jeb. And Jeb will be 71, the ideal age to run as a youthful alternative.

    I don’t see it. The Bush brand is radioactive outside the GOPe’s mental universe.

    Just about anybody who chooses to run against the GOPe message in the primaries is bound to win, even if that’s their only merit. That’s what Trump proved.

    >But if the vaccine works, the lockdowns are ended and the economy is recovering well the Democrat incumbent will be riding high in the polls. So a great deal depends on the vaccine and the economy.

    I don’t trust the authorities to lift the lockdowns with the vaccine: what I fear they are going to do is attempt to go for indefinite lockdowns coupled with a withdrawal of aid. I hope I’m wrong there.

    >And you’re assuming there’s going to be a populist insurgent. Be careful what you wish for – you might get Ivanka!

    Why wouldn’t there be?

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @dfordoom
  38. Corvinus says:
    @Pericles

    “Sure, let’s just conveniently forget that the election was blatantly stolen.”

    Pro tip –> Trump lost. There was not rampant, widespread election/voter fraud as Trump and his cronies claim.

  39. nebulafox says:
    @Pericles

    Because it is impossible that a President who adopted standard-issue GOPe policies in office for the most part, and whose leadership style was a mix of Twitter and doing whatever seemed like the easiest immediate option couldn’t lose legitimately, in the context of a pandemic and an economic crunch that his administration bungled just as much as every other “official” pillar of American society did?

    It speaks volumes about the Democrats own appeal problems that they didn’t get a blowout.

    • Agree: dfordoom
  40. nebulafox says:
    @dfordoom

    It’s funny how the Boomers became far less interested in freedom, privacy, and independence when the youngest of them turned 30…

    • Disagree: AceDeuce
    • Replies: @iffen
    , @dfordoom
  41. iffen says:
    @nebulafox

    It’s not funny because it didn’t happen.

  42. dfordoom says: • Website
    @nebulafox

    Depends on the ideal. We look on people who betrayed the Third Reich as heroes because the ideals of that country were, well, evil.

    Yeah. And I personally think the ideals of the Third Reich were evil.

    But people like Philby sincerely believed that the ideals of his country were evil and that communism would be to the benefit of the British people. Everyone who commits treason for ideological rather than monetary reasons does so because he believes that his own ideals are good and that the current ruling ideology of his country is bad.

    Also a man like Philby did not believe he was betraying Britain. He thought he was working for the benefit of the British people. He would have freely admitted that he betrayed the British government but he would have denied that he betrayed the British people.

    Betrayal is also more complicated than just ideals vs country. There’s also religion. If you’re a Christian which is more important – loyalty to your country (even if your country is currently persecuting Christians) or loyalty to your religion? This is a question that Christians in the West may have to face soon.

    And there’s also loyalty to family. If a woman’s husband betrays his country should she rat on him to the authorities? Is loyalty to a spouse more important than loyalty to country?

    I’m not convinced that loyalty to a country is somehow more important than loyalty to family or religion or beliefs.

    And it’s all very well to say it depends on the ideals, but everyone believes his own ideals are right.

    • Agree: iffen
  43. dfordoom says: • Website
    @nebulafox

    It’s funny how the Boomers became far less interested in freedom, privacy, and independence when the youngest of them turned 30…

    Do you have some actual evidence to back up that claim?

  44. @216

    “untapped analytic horsepower in Black America.”

    LMFAO

  45. @dfordoom

    dfor, That is the very worst sort of moral relativism. I wonder if you really believe that, or are just trolling. If so, you should stop. Speech can lead to real attitude and habit change, for the worse as well as better.

    I think there is an Aesops Fable, parable, or similar metaphor about scorpions and river crossing, and essential nature applicable here. You should look it up.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  46. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Brian Reilly

    dfor, That is the very worst sort of moral relativism.

    It has nothing whatever to do with moral relativism. Conflicts of loyalties do exist, because none of us has a single set of loyalties. There’s loyalty to the country, loyalty to the current regime, loyalty to the current government, loyalty to local communities, loyalty to political parties, loyalty to political ideologies, loyalty to a religion, loyalty to family. Any one of us could at some stage be put in a position where we have to choose which loyalties to betray.

    Deciding which loyalties are most important is not a simple matter.

    The trickiest problem arises when you come to believe that the government no longer serves the interests of the country.

    • Agree: iffen
  47. dfordoom says: • Website
    @nebulafox

    That Kim Philby believed in a demonstrated genocidal sociopath and an ideology that functionally reduced men to deterministic bacterium, and the Founding Fathers believed in the Enlightenment, however imperfectly?

    Marx was a product of the Enlightenment.

  48. Hibernian says:
    @dfordoom

    What about the American Revolutionaries?

    We won.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  49. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Hibernian

    What about the American Revolutionaries?

    We won.

    Exactly. If you win you’re a patriot. If you lose you’re a traitor. Because if you win you get to make the rules that decide who is a patriot and who is a traitor.

    Which is of course a very moral relativist position. Moral truth is whatever the winners decide it is.

  50. @V. K. Ovelund

    There wasn’t any weighting. YouGov always oversamples Democrats.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
  51. @Audacious Epigone

    YouGov always oversamples Democrats.

    Unsurprising. I’ll take your word.

    There wasn’t any weighting.

    Then my arithmetic must be wrong. The numbers you report seem to prove not only that there was weighting but also to reveal how much weighting there was.

    It’s largely a moot point now, for this is an old thread. I do not defend YouGov. Nevertheless, without weighting, the numbers don’t add up.

    How do I know? Because, like you, I have booted my spreadsheet software and tried to add the numbers up.

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