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Average Hispanic IQ by State (2019)
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The following table and map show estimated mean Hispanic IQ by state from 2019 NAEP mathematics and reading results among Hispanic eighth grade public school students. Estimates are computed by averaging mathematics and reading scores and then converting those to IQ scores, assuming a national average IQ of 96 and a standard deviation of 15.

One drawback to these estimates is that they do not account for the 10% of the school-age population either being homeschooled or attending private school. Due to insufficient student sample sizes, data is unavailable for three states:

State IQ
DoDEA 99.5
1) Montana 95.0
2) Mississippi 94.6
3) Florida 94.4
T4) Indiana 94.0
T4) Ohio 94.0
6) Georgia 93.6
7) Hawaii 93.4
8) North Carolina 93.2
9) Kentucky 93.1
10) Illinois 93.0
11) Wyoming 93.0
T12) Louisiana 92.7
T12) Missouri 92.7
14) North Dakota 92.5
15) Arkansas 92.4
16) Alaska 92.4
17) Virginia 92.3
18) Wisconsin 92.2
19) Kansas 92.0
20) South Carolina 92.0
21) South Dakota 91.8
22) Texas 91.8
23) Michigan 91.6
24) Tennessee 91.4
T25) Arizona 91.4
T25) Massachusetts 91.4
T25) New Jersey 91.4
28) Colorado 91.2
29) Iowa 91.2
30) New Hampshire 91.0
31) Nebraska 91.0
32) Nevada 90.8
33) Washington DC 90.8
34) Oklahoma 90.7
35) Connecticut 90.7
T36) Delaware 90.4
T36) Idaho 90.4
38) Washington 90.4
39) Minnesota 90.4
40) Utah 90.2
41) New York 89.8
42) New Mexico 89.8
43) California 89.6
44) Maryland 89.2
45) Oregon 89.1
46) Alabama 89.0
47) Pennsylvania 87.6
48) Rhode Island 86.6

The highest scoring state with a large Hispanic population is, unsurprisingly, Florida. The heavily Puerto Rican northeast and the West coast do not fare as well as Hispanics in the country’s interior do. Once again, the children of US military personnel come out on top.

 
• Category: Culture/Society, Race/Ethnicity • Tags: Hispanics, IQ, NAEP, The states 
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  1. The “schoolmarm” thing, Bro?

    Don’t apologize for attempting civility, just do it fairly, and consistently.

    The self-depreciation is sort of like black people who read,and eat salad depreciating themselves “acting white” jokes.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Fair points. I do want it to be clear that people who have comments deleted will have been warned, though. It sucks to put some time and thought into something just to have it vanish, which is why I filter out comments as infrequently as I'm able to while still being true to the guidelines.
  2. Anonymous[217] • Disclaimer says:

    I’d be curious to see if audacious has by-state IQ estimates for native americans and asians. It’s interesting to see that Hispanics diverge even more than Blacks and Whites do from each other.

    You’d think that some states would attract the highest IQ people of all races, but clearly that’s not the case.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    There are only a handful of states that have American Indian numbers, but about half of them have Asian figures. That's coming soon.
  3. So, even including heavily African-admixed Hispanics Americans like Cubans, the IQ distribution of US Hispanics is actually higher than that of Southern Europeans.

    Is this not a triumph for the mixed-race supremacy theory? Latinos are an amalgamation of primarily three populations: Southern Europeans, Africans, and Native Americans. Their IQ distribution is higher than all the populations that went in to the mixture, deapite the much lower standard of living of US Latinos as compared with Southern Europeans in Europe.

    Either the IQ data on Native Americans is misleading, or mixing the races really does produce smarter, healthier people. Hispanic Americans also have a longer life expectancy than Asians and Whites in America despite lower IQ, way more impoverished, exposed to poorer air quality, etc.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_paradox

    Horvath et al. (2013) have proposed that the lower mortality of Hispanics could reflect a slower biological aging rate of Hispanics.[10] This hypothesis is based on the finding that blood and saliva from Hispanics ages more slowly than that of non-Hispanic whites, African Americans, and other populations according to a biomarker of tissue age known as epigenetic clock.[10]

    ^ The proposed slower biological aging effect comes from their Amerindian mitochondrial lineage.

    • Replies: @ziel
    The estimated IQ's in these two charts are unlikely to be one-to-one comparable, but still, the averages listed for Spain and Italy are 94, while the IQ's in Audacious's list are lower than that in all but 5 states - so how do you get that they're higher than for Southern Europeans. Also, Cubans in the U.S. are not heavily African-admixed.
    , @Mitleser
    Spain, the main source of the European ancestors of Hispanics is better ranked than all Hispanic countries.

    How does that support the mixed-race supremacy theory?
    , @Twinkie

    Hispanic Americans also have a longer life expectancy than Asians... in America
     
    Untrue.

    https://www.thebalance.com/the-racial-life-expectancy-gap-in-the-u-s-4588898


    Life expectancies based on race are from the Center for Disease Control (CDC) data which is available up until 2014. It happens that 2014 is the year in which the highest life expectancy occurred and it has been declining slightly since that time. The life expectancy for the U.S. for all races was 78.9 years. Based on race, life expectancies in 2014 were as follows:

    Native Americans: 75.06 years
    African Americans: 75.54 years
    White Americans: 79.12 years
    Hispanic Americans: 82.89 years
    Asian Americans: 86.67 years
     

    , @songbird

    including heavily African-admixed Hispanics Americans like Cubans
     
    The Castro regime engaged in a lot of anti-racist propaganda against the US. The result of this was that blacks were discouraged from emigrating.

    Is this not a triumph for the mixed-race supremacy theory?
     
    I don't know anyone who would hold Puerto Rico up as an example. Or Brazil, or Venezuela. If you ask me, this theory is just the wishful thinking of internationalists.
  4. @Sam Coulton
    So, even including heavily African-admixed Hispanics Americans like Cubans, the IQ distribution of US Hispanics is actually higher than that of Southern Europeans.

    https://i.redd.it/uqkx37h3dq831.jpg


    Is this not a triumph for the mixed-race supremacy theory? Latinos are an amalgamation of primarily three populations: Southern Europeans, Africans, and Native Americans. Their IQ distribution is higher than all the populations that went in to the mixture, deapite the much lower standard of living of US Latinos as compared with Southern Europeans in Europe.

    Either the IQ data on Native Americans is misleading, or mixing the races really does produce smarter, healthier people. Hispanic Americans also have a longer life expectancy than Asians and Whites in America despite lower IQ, way more impoverished, exposed to poorer air quality, etc.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_paradox


    Horvath et al. (2013) have proposed that the lower mortality of Hispanics could reflect a slower biological aging rate of Hispanics.[10] This hypothesis is based on the finding that blood and saliva from Hispanics ages more slowly than that of non-Hispanic whites, African Americans, and other populations according to a biomarker of tissue age known as epigenetic clock.[10]
     
    ^ The proposed slower biological aging effect comes from their Amerindian mitochondrial lineage.

    The estimated IQ’s in these two charts are unlikely to be one-to-one comparable, but still, the averages listed for Spain and Italy are 94, while the IQ’s in Audacious’s list are lower than that in all but 5 states – so how do you get that they’re higher than for Southern Europeans. Also, Cubans in the U.S. are not heavily African-admixed.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Spain and Italy's scores are obviously averages too, there will undoubtedly be regional variations within Spain and Italy. Southern Italy almost certainly has a lower IQ than Northern Italy, and same goes for Southern Spain and Northern Spain.

    The fact of the matter is the average US Hispanic IQ is higher than the average IQ for almost all Southern European countries. It doesn't surprise me that Hispanics have a higher IQ than Meds, considering Hispanics are a mix of Med types and North Asiatic types, and North Asiatic types have a higher IQ than Meds.

    , @Herbert West
    “the averages listed for Spain and Italy are 94, while the IQ’s in Audacious’s list are lower than that in all but 5 states – so how do you get that they’re higher than for Southern Europeans. ”

    He’s innumerate and/or a liar.

  5. Puerto Rico is a basket case, and as such, they probably don’t even release the data.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    They only did the math assessment in 2019, but yes, the scores are abysmal--worse than any US state by far.
  6. @Sam Coulton
    So, even including heavily African-admixed Hispanics Americans like Cubans, the IQ distribution of US Hispanics is actually higher than that of Southern Europeans.

    https://i.redd.it/uqkx37h3dq831.jpg


    Is this not a triumph for the mixed-race supremacy theory? Latinos are an amalgamation of primarily three populations: Southern Europeans, Africans, and Native Americans. Their IQ distribution is higher than all the populations that went in to the mixture, deapite the much lower standard of living of US Latinos as compared with Southern Europeans in Europe.

    Either the IQ data on Native Americans is misleading, or mixing the races really does produce smarter, healthier people. Hispanic Americans also have a longer life expectancy than Asians and Whites in America despite lower IQ, way more impoverished, exposed to poorer air quality, etc.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_paradox


    Horvath et al. (2013) have proposed that the lower mortality of Hispanics could reflect a slower biological aging rate of Hispanics.[10] This hypothesis is based on the finding that blood and saliva from Hispanics ages more slowly than that of non-Hispanic whites, African Americans, and other populations according to a biomarker of tissue age known as epigenetic clock.[10]
     
    ^ The proposed slower biological aging effect comes from their Amerindian mitochondrial lineage.

    Spain, the main source of the European ancestors of Hispanics is better ranked than all Hispanic countries.

    How does that support the mixed-race supremacy theory?

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton
    There's no comparison, because all environmental factors that negatively affect on IQ are much higher in Latin America than in Spain.

    The Hispanics in the USA are a more accurate comparison to Spain, even though they're actually experiencing considerably worse quality of life than them.

    , @Anonymous
    Arguably Spain has done very well since it joined the EU and has been financially subsidised by countries like Germany and the UK. Before joining the EU and especially during Franco's rule, Spain was seen as a poor, backward country on par with Latin America.

    Also from the 1960s onwards, Southern Spain has been hugely popular with British and German tourists, so much so that tourism basically is the main industry in the coastal regions, particularly Andalusia which is traditionally the poorest region.
  7. @Sam Coulton
    So, even including heavily African-admixed Hispanics Americans like Cubans, the IQ distribution of US Hispanics is actually higher than that of Southern Europeans.

    https://i.redd.it/uqkx37h3dq831.jpg


    Is this not a triumph for the mixed-race supremacy theory? Latinos are an amalgamation of primarily three populations: Southern Europeans, Africans, and Native Americans. Their IQ distribution is higher than all the populations that went in to the mixture, deapite the much lower standard of living of US Latinos as compared with Southern Europeans in Europe.

    Either the IQ data on Native Americans is misleading, or mixing the races really does produce smarter, healthier people. Hispanic Americans also have a longer life expectancy than Asians and Whites in America despite lower IQ, way more impoverished, exposed to poorer air quality, etc.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_paradox


    Horvath et al. (2013) have proposed that the lower mortality of Hispanics could reflect a slower biological aging rate of Hispanics.[10] This hypothesis is based on the finding that blood and saliva from Hispanics ages more slowly than that of non-Hispanic whites, African Americans, and other populations according to a biomarker of tissue age known as epigenetic clock.[10]
     
    ^ The proposed slower biological aging effect comes from their Amerindian mitochondrial lineage.

    Hispanic Americans also have a longer life expectancy than Asians… in America

    Untrue.

    https://www.thebalance.com/the-racial-life-expectancy-gap-in-the-u-s-4588898

    Life expectancies based on race are from the Center for Disease Control (CDC) data which is available up until 2014. It happens that 2014 is the year in which the highest life expectancy occurred and it has been declining slightly since that time. The life expectancy for the U.S. for all races was 78.9 years. Based on race, life expectancies in 2014 were as follows:

    Native Americans: 75.06 years
    African Americans: 75.54 years
    White Americans: 79.12 years
    Hispanic Americans: 82.89 years
    Asian Americans: 86.67 years

    • Replies: @SFG
    Come on, Twinkie, you of all people should support the mixed-race supremacy theory. We mix Asians and whites, we're going to get some really smart people. ;)
  8. @Sam Coulton
    So, even including heavily African-admixed Hispanics Americans like Cubans, the IQ distribution of US Hispanics is actually higher than that of Southern Europeans.

    https://i.redd.it/uqkx37h3dq831.jpg


    Is this not a triumph for the mixed-race supremacy theory? Latinos are an amalgamation of primarily three populations: Southern Europeans, Africans, and Native Americans. Their IQ distribution is higher than all the populations that went in to the mixture, deapite the much lower standard of living of US Latinos as compared with Southern Europeans in Europe.

    Either the IQ data on Native Americans is misleading, or mixing the races really does produce smarter, healthier people. Hispanic Americans also have a longer life expectancy than Asians and Whites in America despite lower IQ, way more impoverished, exposed to poorer air quality, etc.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_paradox


    Horvath et al. (2013) have proposed that the lower mortality of Hispanics could reflect a slower biological aging rate of Hispanics.[10] This hypothesis is based on the finding that blood and saliva from Hispanics ages more slowly than that of non-Hispanic whites, African Americans, and other populations according to a biomarker of tissue age known as epigenetic clock.[10]
     
    ^ The proposed slower biological aging effect comes from their Amerindian mitochondrial lineage.

    including heavily African-admixed Hispanics Americans like Cubans

    The Castro regime engaged in a lot of anti-racist propaganda against the US. The result of this was that blacks were discouraged from emigrating.

    Is this not a triumph for the mixed-race supremacy theory?

    I don’t know anyone who would hold Puerto Rico up as an example. Or Brazil, or Venezuela. If you ask me, this theory is just the wishful thinking of internationalists.

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton
    All Cubans are racially mixed. The mitochondrial lineages of Cubans are 33% Native American, 45% African and 22% European, whereas their paternal lineages are 80% European and 20% African, making it impossible for any one of them not to carry substantial triracial ancestry.
  9. @Mitleser
    Spain, the main source of the European ancestors of Hispanics is better ranked than all Hispanic countries.

    How does that support the mixed-race supremacy theory?

    There’s no comparison, because all environmental factors that negatively affect on IQ are much higher in Latin America than in Spain.

    The Hispanics in the USA are a more accurate comparison to Spain, even though they’re actually experiencing considerably worse quality of life than them.

  10. @songbird

    including heavily African-admixed Hispanics Americans like Cubans
     
    The Castro regime engaged in a lot of anti-racist propaganda against the US. The result of this was that blacks were discouraged from emigrating.

    Is this not a triumph for the mixed-race supremacy theory?
     
    I don't know anyone who would hold Puerto Rico up as an example. Or Brazil, or Venezuela. If you ask me, this theory is just the wishful thinking of internationalists.

    All Cubans are racially mixed. The mitochondrial lineages of Cubans are 33% Native American, 45% African and 22% European, whereas their paternal lineages are 80% European and 20% African, making it impossible for any one of them not to carry substantial triracial ancestry.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    The mixture varies greatly among Cubans. The earlier cohorts of Cuban immigrants, being property owners and professionals, were likely heavily Spanish-descended and their assimilation rates in America reflected this per the Manhattan Institute studies on the subject. Recent cohorts, however, are not and the corresponding and dramatic drop in the Cuban immigrant assimilation index has been noted in the same studies.
    , @Jim bob Lassiter
    "All Cubans are racially mixed"-- Not true. I personally know Cubans that are whiter than I am-- of English and French immigrant stock. Quite a few immigrated from Europe to manage sugar cane operations right after the Spanish-American War.
  11. @Sam Coulton
    All Cubans are racially mixed. The mitochondrial lineages of Cubans are 33% Native American, 45% African and 22% European, whereas their paternal lineages are 80% European and 20% African, making it impossible for any one of them not to carry substantial triracial ancestry.

    The mixture varies greatly among Cubans. The earlier cohorts of Cuban immigrants, being property owners and professionals, were likely heavily Spanish-descended and their assimilation rates in America reflected this per the Manhattan Institute studies on the subject. Recent cohorts, however, are not and the corresponding and dramatic drop in the Cuban immigrant assimilation index has been noted in the same studies.

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton
    This chart from Comas, et al. shows the maternal (second picture) and paternal ancestries of Cubans in Cuba.

    https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2148-8-213


    https://media.springernature.com/lw685/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1186%2F1471-2148-8-213/MediaObjects/12862_2008_Article_782_Fig1_HTML.jpg?as=webp


    As we can see, there is nowhere in Cuba where the maternal ancestry is anywhere near 50% European, -except for in Cienfuegos, a notoriously ghetto region from which no elite ever emerged-, unlike the history of the neighboring Sancti Spiritus. There are regions that have 100% European paternal lineages, but paradoxically, these regions are where European maternal ancestry is at its lowest.

    This means that the older elite of Cuba were in fact more likely to be mixed, and that the migrants to the United States were never heavily European, at least not more so than modern impoverished Cubans. Comas says that this genetic distribution had already been established in Cuba before the earliest Cuban migrations to the US. So the myth that the elite Cuban migrants to the USA were predominantly European has been deflated.

    , @SFG
    Yeah, I knew some upper-crust Cubans and they looked awful...Uruguayan, let's say.

    This is somewhat positive news, as it suggests at least the top third to half of Hispanics, say, may be assimilable.

  12. It’s interesting that the average Hispanic IQ seems to be about on par with Spain, and actually higher than Portugal.

    So either the Spanish and Portuguese have mixed with their former colonies to the extent that it has lowed the national average IQ, or the average IQ of Meds is no higher than Amerindians.

  13. Anonymous[284] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mitleser
    Spain, the main source of the European ancestors of Hispanics is better ranked than all Hispanic countries.

    How does that support the mixed-race supremacy theory?

    Arguably Spain has done very well since it joined the EU and has been financially subsidised by countries like Germany and the UK. Before joining the EU and especially during Franco’s rule, Spain was seen as a poor, backward country on par with Latin America.

    Also from the 1960s onwards, Southern Spain has been hugely popular with British and German tourists, so much so that tourism basically is the main industry in the coastal regions, particularly Andalusia which is traditionally the poorest region.

  14. @Twinkie
    The mixture varies greatly among Cubans. The earlier cohorts of Cuban immigrants, being property owners and professionals, were likely heavily Spanish-descended and their assimilation rates in America reflected this per the Manhattan Institute studies on the subject. Recent cohorts, however, are not and the corresponding and dramatic drop in the Cuban immigrant assimilation index has been noted in the same studies.

    This chart from Comas, et al. shows the maternal (second picture) and paternal ancestries of Cubans in Cuba.

    https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2148-8-213

    As we can see, there is nowhere in Cuba where the maternal ancestry is anywhere near 50% European, -except for in Cienfuegos, a notoriously ghetto region from which no elite ever emerged-, unlike the history of the neighboring Sancti Spiritus. There are regions that have 100% European paternal lineages, but paradoxically, these regions are where European maternal ancestry is at its lowest.

    This means that the older elite of Cuba were in fact more likely to be mixed, and that the migrants to the United States were never heavily European, at least not more so than modern impoverished Cubans. Comas says that this genetic distribution had already been established in Cuba before the earliest Cuban migrations to the US. So the myth that the elite Cuban migrants to the USA were predominantly European has been deflated.

    • Replies: @AP
    I dunno. I've known a few educated Cubans and they look completely European, which doesn't exclude maybe some 5% or so slight mixture but would exclude 10% or 20% or more non-European descent.

    Marco Rubio did his DNA and he was over 92% European:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/marco-rubios-dna/

    I don't think he is so unique as a Cuban-American.

    Apparently there was a large wave of Spanish immigration to Cuba in the early 20th century (Fidel Castro's father was among those), so there must be a lot of people with all Spanish grandparents.
    , @Twinkie

    This means that the older elite of Cuba were in fact more likely to be mixed, and that the migrants to the United States were never heavily European, at least not more so than modern impoverished Cubans.
     
    The source you cited doesn't warrant that conclusion and suffers from a number of methodological issues, some of which the author themselves cite (to be clear, these are issues to the extent you coopt the study to formulate the above conclusion, not any fault with the authors and their results, which do not make any claim remotely similar to yours).

    First of all, the paper deals with frequencies of mtDNA (mother-side) and Y-chromosome (father-side) lineages. They are not the same things as genetic compositions of individuals.

    Second, the paper codes these lineage frequencies by regions. It does not code them by class (or educational attainment, income, etc.) within them, and hence says nothing about the genetic composition variances by class. Indeed, given that earlier Cuban immigrant cohorts in the U.S. were disproportionally drawn from the propertied and those with potable professional skills and since these exiles were not sampled, there is no basis for claiming what you do above.

    Third, there are potential sampling issues, which the authors cite - to wit, "Although our recruitment scheme was designed to capture a representative sample of the Cuban population, and although blood donations were not rewarded, our sample could include unapparent socioeconomic biases that would distort ancestry estimates." This tells me that the authors themselves harbor some selection bias issues in the sampling.

    Fourth, the authors acknowledge that their results are in conflict with those of another study - "Our results differ from a previous independent study carried out in the Cuban province of Pinar del Rio [36], whose authors estimated that 50% of maternal lineages in this province were of European, 46% African, and a maximum 4% of Native American origin."

    Finally, even setting all these issues with the study aside, what is rather crystal clear is that a large subset (possibly a majority) of the combined male-female ancestry lineage frequencies is European in origin. Given that the distributions of the same is likely to have at least some variance (or much, according to the social literature about pre-revolution Cuba as well as the social structure in other Spanish-colonized regions), this lends further support to the idea that the Cuban immigrant cohorts of different generations whose emigration was economically and socio-politically selected would have different ethno-racial mixtures. Indeed, casual observations of older Cubans in America and the new arrivals bear this out, as the latter tend to appear much more African in looks.
  15. @Twinkie

    Hispanic Americans also have a longer life expectancy than Asians... in America
     
    Untrue.

    https://www.thebalance.com/the-racial-life-expectancy-gap-in-the-u-s-4588898


    Life expectancies based on race are from the Center for Disease Control (CDC) data which is available up until 2014. It happens that 2014 is the year in which the highest life expectancy occurred and it has been declining slightly since that time. The life expectancy for the U.S. for all races was 78.9 years. Based on race, life expectancies in 2014 were as follows:

    Native Americans: 75.06 years
    African Americans: 75.54 years
    White Americans: 79.12 years
    Hispanic Americans: 82.89 years
    Asian Americans: 86.67 years
     

    Come on, Twinkie, you of all people should support the mixed-race supremacy theory. We mix Asians and whites, we’re going to get some really smart people. 😉

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Come on, Twinkie, you of all people should support the mixed-race supremacy theory. We mix Asians and whites, we’re going to get some really smart people. 😉
     
    Hybrid vigor is real, but much depends on the parental genes. You are not going to get attractive Hapas by mixing ugly white and Asian parents (and believe me, I've seen some not-so-attractive Hapa children).

    Asian/white married couples, especially youngers cohorts that are not confounded by war bride phenomenon the older cohorts are, tend to be assortative in education attainment, so, yes, their offspring will, on average, be smarter than the average Americans.
  16. @Twinkie
    The mixture varies greatly among Cubans. The earlier cohorts of Cuban immigrants, being property owners and professionals, were likely heavily Spanish-descended and their assimilation rates in America reflected this per the Manhattan Institute studies on the subject. Recent cohorts, however, are not and the corresponding and dramatic drop in the Cuban immigrant assimilation index has been noted in the same studies.

    Yeah, I knew some upper-crust Cubans and they looked awful…Uruguayan, let’s say.

    This is somewhat positive news, as it suggests at least the top third to half of Hispanics, say, may be assimilable.

  17. @Sam Coulton
    All Cubans are racially mixed. The mitochondrial lineages of Cubans are 33% Native American, 45% African and 22% European, whereas their paternal lineages are 80% European and 20% African, making it impossible for any one of them not to carry substantial triracial ancestry.

    “All Cubans are racially mixed”– Not true. I personally know Cubans that are whiter than I am– of English and French immigrant stock. Quite a few immigrated from Europe to manage sugar cane operations right after the Spanish-American War.

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton
    Yet those Cubans are likely to have around 20% African ancestry, and literal Subsaharan mitochondria flowing through their veins.

    Remember Craig Cobb? On the surface, no one would immediately suspect he was part black, but 23andMe revealed that, like most southerners, he is over 10% subSaharan African. And, with the benefit of hindsight, he does appear to have an African skull, and his facial hair is quite woolly. Cubans may express their ancestry in different ways but I have yet to see one that didn't bear evidence of a non-European ancestry, however slight.

  18. @Jim bob Lassiter
    "All Cubans are racially mixed"-- Not true. I personally know Cubans that are whiter than I am-- of English and French immigrant stock. Quite a few immigrated from Europe to manage sugar cane operations right after the Spanish-American War.

    Yet those Cubans are likely to have around 20% African ancestry, and literal Subsaharan mitochondria flowing through their veins.

    Remember Craig Cobb? On the surface, no one would immediately suspect he was part black, but 23andMe revealed that, like most southerners, he is over 10% subSaharan African. And, with the benefit of hindsight, he does appear to have an African skull, and his facial hair is quite woolly. Cubans may express their ancestry in different ways but I have yet to see one that didn’t bear evidence of a non-European ancestry, however slight.

  19. Some of the rankings on this list are unsurprising (children of military personnel scoring the highest, Florida Hispanics scoring above average), but why would Mississippi’s Hispanics rank so high on this list (#2)? Hispanics in neighboring Alabama rank #46.

  20. @Sam Coulton
    This chart from Comas, et al. shows the maternal (second picture) and paternal ancestries of Cubans in Cuba.

    https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2148-8-213


    https://media.springernature.com/lw685/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1186%2F1471-2148-8-213/MediaObjects/12862_2008_Article_782_Fig1_HTML.jpg?as=webp


    As we can see, there is nowhere in Cuba where the maternal ancestry is anywhere near 50% European, -except for in Cienfuegos, a notoriously ghetto region from which no elite ever emerged-, unlike the history of the neighboring Sancti Spiritus. There are regions that have 100% European paternal lineages, but paradoxically, these regions are where European maternal ancestry is at its lowest.

    This means that the older elite of Cuba were in fact more likely to be mixed, and that the migrants to the United States were never heavily European, at least not more so than modern impoverished Cubans. Comas says that this genetic distribution had already been established in Cuba before the earliest Cuban migrations to the US. So the myth that the elite Cuban migrants to the USA were predominantly European has been deflated.

    I dunno. I’ve known a few educated Cubans and they look completely European, which doesn’t exclude maybe some 5% or so slight mixture but would exclude 10% or 20% or more non-European descent.

    Marco Rubio did his DNA and he was over 92% European:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/marco-rubios-dna/

    I don’t think he is so unique as a Cuban-American.

    Apparently there was a large wave of Spanish immigration to Cuba in the early 20th century (Fidel Castro’s father was among those), so there must be a lot of people with all Spanish grandparents.

    • Replies: @AP
    Here is the popular Cuban-American musician Pitbull:

    https://hissip.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/pitbull.jpg

    I doubt any more than 10% non-European descent.
    , @Twinkie

    I don’t think he is so unique as a Cuban-American.
     
    He's not.

    It's not magic that Cubans - uniquely among "Hispanic" immigrants in America - cluster with certain Asian immigrants in the assimilation index:

    http://latinosreadytovote.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Asimmiliation.gif

    However, in the last Manhattan Institute study recent Cuban immigrants were the only ones to display a substantial drop in the assimilation index, which tells you that the recent cohorts are not as highly selected as the older ones.
    , @Sam Coulton
    He was 92% European autosomally (which doesn't really matter that much as autosomal ancestry can recombine and be masked rather easily) but his mitochondrial haplogroup, and therefore the machines in his blood that power his body, was Native American, and thus, like most Cubans, his X chromosomal repeats are most likely more Amerind and African than European. Ethnic/racial ancestry and mixture is more appropriately measured at the sex chromosomal and mitochondrial regions.
  21. @AP
    I dunno. I've known a few educated Cubans and they look completely European, which doesn't exclude maybe some 5% or so slight mixture but would exclude 10% or 20% or more non-European descent.

    Marco Rubio did his DNA and he was over 92% European:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/marco-rubios-dna/

    I don't think he is so unique as a Cuban-American.

    Apparently there was a large wave of Spanish immigration to Cuba in the early 20th century (Fidel Castro's father was among those), so there must be a lot of people with all Spanish grandparents.

    Here is the popular Cuban-American musician Pitbull:

    I doubt any more than 10% non-European descent.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Pitbull is an example of how someone who looks totally white can be culturally Negrified to the point that no one perceives them as white.

    In a purely racial sense, Pitbull looks undoubtedly white, yet I still find it difficult to think of him as white because culturally he is nothing like a typical white.
  22. @SFG
    Come on, Twinkie, you of all people should support the mixed-race supremacy theory. We mix Asians and whites, we're going to get some really smart people. ;)

    Come on, Twinkie, you of all people should support the mixed-race supremacy theory. We mix Asians and whites, we’re going to get some really smart people. 😉

    Hybrid vigor is real, but much depends on the parental genes. You are not going to get attractive Hapas by mixing ugly white and Asian parents (and believe me, I’ve seen some not-so-attractive Hapa children).

    Asian/white married couples, especially youngers cohorts that are not confounded by war bride phenomenon the older cohorts are, tend to be assortative in education attainment, so, yes, their offspring will, on average, be smarter than the average Americans.

  23. @Sam Coulton
    This chart from Comas, et al. shows the maternal (second picture) and paternal ancestries of Cubans in Cuba.

    https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2148-8-213


    https://media.springernature.com/lw685/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1186%2F1471-2148-8-213/MediaObjects/12862_2008_Article_782_Fig1_HTML.jpg?as=webp


    As we can see, there is nowhere in Cuba where the maternal ancestry is anywhere near 50% European, -except for in Cienfuegos, a notoriously ghetto region from which no elite ever emerged-, unlike the history of the neighboring Sancti Spiritus. There are regions that have 100% European paternal lineages, but paradoxically, these regions are where European maternal ancestry is at its lowest.

    This means that the older elite of Cuba were in fact more likely to be mixed, and that the migrants to the United States were never heavily European, at least not more so than modern impoverished Cubans. Comas says that this genetic distribution had already been established in Cuba before the earliest Cuban migrations to the US. So the myth that the elite Cuban migrants to the USA were predominantly European has been deflated.

    This means that the older elite of Cuba were in fact more likely to be mixed, and that the migrants to the United States were never heavily European, at least not more so than modern impoverished Cubans.

    The source you cited doesn’t warrant that conclusion and suffers from a number of methodological issues, some of which the author themselves cite (to be clear, these are issues to the extent you coopt the study to formulate the above conclusion, not any fault with the authors and their results, which do not make any claim remotely similar to yours).

    First of all, the paper deals with frequencies of mtDNA (mother-side) and Y-chromosome (father-side) lineages. They are not the same things as genetic compositions of individuals.

    Second, the paper codes these lineage frequencies by regions. It does not code them by class (or educational attainment, income, etc.) within them, and hence says nothing about the genetic composition variances by class. Indeed, given that earlier Cuban immigrant cohorts in the U.S. were disproportionally drawn from the propertied and those with potable professional skills and since these exiles were not sampled, there is no basis for claiming what you do above.

    Third, there are potential sampling issues, which the authors cite – to wit, “Although our recruitment scheme was designed to capture a representative sample of the Cuban population, and although blood donations were not rewarded, our sample could include unapparent socioeconomic biases that would distort ancestry estimates.” This tells me that the authors themselves harbor some selection bias issues in the sampling.

    Fourth, the authors acknowledge that their results are in conflict with those of another study – “Our results differ from a previous independent study carried out in the Cuban province of Pinar del Rio [36], whose authors estimated that 50% of maternal lineages in this province were of European, 46% African, and a maximum 4% of Native American origin.”

    Finally, even setting all these issues with the study aside, what is rather crystal clear is that a large subset (possibly a majority) of the combined male-female ancestry lineage frequencies is European in origin. Given that the distributions of the same is likely to have at least some variance (or much, according to the social literature about pre-revolution Cuba as well as the social structure in other Spanish-colonized regions), this lends further support to the idea that the Cuban immigrant cohorts of different generations whose emigration was economically and socio-politically selected would have different ethno-racial mixtures. Indeed, casual observations of older Cubans in America and the new arrivals bear this out, as the latter tend to appear much more African in looks.

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton

    First of all, the paper deals with frequencies of mtDNA (mother-side) and Y-chromosome (father-side) lineages. They are not the same things as genetic compositions of individuals.
     
    The sex chromosomes and mitochondrial DNA are two essential components of your genes. If you have an African Y-chromosome, for instance, a substantial part of what makes you and your offapring is African, with phenotypical effects. Y-chromosome haplotypes and mitochondrial DNA are direct genetic descent and unlike all other forms of DNA, do not "recombine" and aren't masked by admixture.

    Second, the paper codes these lineage frequencies by regions. It does not code them by class (or educational attainment, income, etc.) within them, and hence says nothing about the genetic composition variances by class. Indeed, given that earlier Cuban immigrant cohorts in the U.S. were disproportionally drawn from the propertied and those with potable professional skills and since these exiles were not sampled, there is no basis for claiming what you do above.
     
    If there is nowhere in Cuba where regional ancestry is predominantly European, there is no reason to believe that the Cubans who came to America were. Region also accounts for class, and there is no evidence that historically "European" areas in Cuba are actually genetically unmixed Europeans in this study. If anything, it's the opposite: Sancti Spiritus seems to have been formed by heavy racial admixture.

    Fourth, the authors acknowledge that their results are in conflict with those of another study – “Our results differ from a previous independent study carried out in the Cuban province of Pinar del Rio [36], whose authors estimated that 50% of maternal lineages in this province were of European, 46% African, and a maximum 4% of Native American origin.”
     
    That's not a "conflict" -- they simply aconowledge that one study found that one province in Cuba was a bit more European maternally than the highest Euro province in this study (Cienfuegos). Still heavily mixed at about 50% non-European.

    Finally, even setting all these issues with the study aside, what is rather crystal clear is that a large subset (possibly a majority) of the combined male-female ancestry lineage frequencies is European in origin.
     
    The combined Euro male-Black/Amerind female ancestry is much larger.

    Another study finds that Native American and African ancestry is bigger on the X chromosomes of Cubans, than European ancestry:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-29851-3


    We detected patterns of sex-biased gene flow in all fifteen Cuban provinces (Fig. 3). We found higher African and Native American ancestries on the X-chromosome than on autosomes, and the opposite pattern for European ancestry (Fig. 3a, Supplementary Table S5, and Supplementary Fig. S9). The admixture difference ratios (ΔAdmix ratios)29 between the X-chromosome and autosomes show positive values when considering African and Native American ancestries (Fig. 3b), thus reflecting higher female-specific admixture from both continental ancestries, while negative values for European ancestry evidence an excess of European male-specific admixture
     
    Only 19% of European migrants to Cuba were female:

    Historical sources point to a marked gender imbalance during the TAST48,49, with more enslaved African men than women forcefully brought to Cuba (on average 69%)10,11, and more Spanish men than women migrating to that region (81% of Spanish immigrants)6,7.
     
    With all provinces of Cuba having majority nonEuro maternal ancestry, and quite a few with substantial African paternal ancestry, there's no way Cubans are walking around with much European X-chromosomal DNA. Practically all of them directly descend from a mixture. The fact that Cuban Americans like Marco Rubio and the rest of the upper middle-higher class people on 23andMe and FTDNA tend to have African or Amerind mtDNA haplogroups ends the idea that their ancestors weren't mixed.
  24. @AP
    I dunno. I've known a few educated Cubans and they look completely European, which doesn't exclude maybe some 5% or so slight mixture but would exclude 10% or 20% or more non-European descent.

    Marco Rubio did his DNA and he was over 92% European:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/marco-rubios-dna/

    I don't think he is so unique as a Cuban-American.

    Apparently there was a large wave of Spanish immigration to Cuba in the early 20th century (Fidel Castro's father was among those), so there must be a lot of people with all Spanish grandparents.

    I don’t think he is so unique as a Cuban-American.

    He’s not.

    It’s not magic that Cubans – uniquely among “Hispanic” immigrants in America – cluster with certain Asian immigrants in the assimilation index:

    However, in the last Manhattan Institute study recent Cuban immigrants were the only ones to display a substantial drop in the assimilation index, which tells you that the recent cohorts are not as highly selected as the older ones.

  25. Anonymous[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @AP
    Here is the popular Cuban-American musician Pitbull:

    https://hissip.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/pitbull.jpg

    I doubt any more than 10% non-European descent.

    Pitbull is an example of how someone who looks totally white can be culturally Negrified to the point that no one perceives them as white.

    In a purely racial sense, Pitbull looks undoubtedly white, yet I still find it difficult to think of him as white because culturally he is nothing like a typical white.

  26. Anonymous[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @ziel
    The estimated IQ's in these two charts are unlikely to be one-to-one comparable, but still, the averages listed for Spain and Italy are 94, while the IQ's in Audacious's list are lower than that in all but 5 states - so how do you get that they're higher than for Southern Europeans. Also, Cubans in the U.S. are not heavily African-admixed.

    Spain and Italy’s scores are obviously averages too, there will undoubtedly be regional variations within Spain and Italy. Southern Italy almost certainly has a lower IQ than Northern Italy, and same goes for Southern Spain and Northern Spain.

    The fact of the matter is the average US Hispanic IQ is higher than the average IQ for almost all Southern European countries. It doesn’t surprise me that Hispanics have a higher IQ than Meds, considering Hispanics are a mix of Med types and North Asiatic types, and North Asiatic types have a higher IQ than Meds.

  27. @Twinkie

    This means that the older elite of Cuba were in fact more likely to be mixed, and that the migrants to the United States were never heavily European, at least not more so than modern impoverished Cubans.
     
    The source you cited doesn't warrant that conclusion and suffers from a number of methodological issues, some of which the author themselves cite (to be clear, these are issues to the extent you coopt the study to formulate the above conclusion, not any fault with the authors and their results, which do not make any claim remotely similar to yours).

    First of all, the paper deals with frequencies of mtDNA (mother-side) and Y-chromosome (father-side) lineages. They are not the same things as genetic compositions of individuals.

    Second, the paper codes these lineage frequencies by regions. It does not code them by class (or educational attainment, income, etc.) within them, and hence says nothing about the genetic composition variances by class. Indeed, given that earlier Cuban immigrant cohorts in the U.S. were disproportionally drawn from the propertied and those with potable professional skills and since these exiles were not sampled, there is no basis for claiming what you do above.

    Third, there are potential sampling issues, which the authors cite - to wit, "Although our recruitment scheme was designed to capture a representative sample of the Cuban population, and although blood donations were not rewarded, our sample could include unapparent socioeconomic biases that would distort ancestry estimates." This tells me that the authors themselves harbor some selection bias issues in the sampling.

    Fourth, the authors acknowledge that their results are in conflict with those of another study - "Our results differ from a previous independent study carried out in the Cuban province of Pinar del Rio [36], whose authors estimated that 50% of maternal lineages in this province were of European, 46% African, and a maximum 4% of Native American origin."

    Finally, even setting all these issues with the study aside, what is rather crystal clear is that a large subset (possibly a majority) of the combined male-female ancestry lineage frequencies is European in origin. Given that the distributions of the same is likely to have at least some variance (or much, according to the social literature about pre-revolution Cuba as well as the social structure in other Spanish-colonized regions), this lends further support to the idea that the Cuban immigrant cohorts of different generations whose emigration was economically and socio-politically selected would have different ethno-racial mixtures. Indeed, casual observations of older Cubans in America and the new arrivals bear this out, as the latter tend to appear much more African in looks.

    First of all, the paper deals with frequencies of mtDNA (mother-side) and Y-chromosome (father-side) lineages. They are not the same things as genetic compositions of individuals.

    The sex chromosomes and mitochondrial DNA are two essential components of your genes. If you have an African Y-chromosome, for instance, a substantial part of what makes you and your offapring is African, with phenotypical effects. Y-chromosome haplotypes and mitochondrial DNA are direct genetic descent and unlike all other forms of DNA, do not “recombine” and aren’t masked by admixture.

    Second, the paper codes these lineage frequencies by regions. It does not code them by class (or educational attainment, income, etc.) within them, and hence says nothing about the genetic composition variances by class. Indeed, given that earlier Cuban immigrant cohorts in the U.S. were disproportionally drawn from the propertied and those with potable professional skills and since these exiles were not sampled, there is no basis for claiming what you do above.

    If there is nowhere in Cuba where regional ancestry is predominantly European, there is no reason to believe that the Cubans who came to America were. Region also accounts for class, and there is no evidence that historically “European” areas in Cuba are actually genetically unmixed Europeans in this study. If anything, it’s the opposite: Sancti Spiritus seems to have been formed by heavy racial admixture.

    Fourth, the authors acknowledge that their results are in conflict with those of another study – “Our results differ from a previous independent study carried out in the Cuban province of Pinar del Rio [36], whose authors estimated that 50% of maternal lineages in this province were of European, 46% African, and a maximum 4% of Native American origin.”

    That’s not a “conflict” — they simply aconowledge that one study found that one province in Cuba was a bit more European maternally than the highest Euro province in this study (Cienfuegos). Still heavily mixed at about 50% non-European.

    Finally, even setting all these issues with the study aside, what is rather crystal clear is that a large subset (possibly a majority) of the combined male-female ancestry lineage frequencies is European in origin.

    The combined Euro male-Black/Amerind female ancestry is much larger.

    Another study finds that Native American and African ancestry is bigger on the X chromosomes of Cubans, than European ancestry:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-29851-3

    We detected patterns of sex-biased gene flow in all fifteen Cuban provinces (Fig. 3). We found higher African and Native American ancestries on the X-chromosome than on autosomes, and the opposite pattern for European ancestry (Fig. 3a, Supplementary Table S5, and Supplementary Fig. S9). The admixture difference ratios (ΔAdmix ratios)29 between the X-chromosome and autosomes show positive values when considering African and Native American ancestries (Fig. 3b), thus reflecting higher female-specific admixture from both continental ancestries, while negative values for European ancestry evidence an excess of European male-specific admixture

    Only 19% of European migrants to Cuba were female:

    Historical sources point to a marked gender imbalance during the TAST48,49, with more enslaved African men than women forcefully brought to Cuba (on average 69%)10,11, and more Spanish men than women migrating to that region (81% of Spanish immigrants)6,7.

    With all provinces of Cuba having majority nonEuro maternal ancestry, and quite a few with substantial African paternal ancestry, there’s no way Cubans are walking around with much European X-chromosomal DNA. Practically all of them directly descend from a mixture. The fact that Cuban Americans like Marco Rubio and the rest of the upper middle-higher class people on 23andMe and FTDNA tend to have African or Amerind mtDNA haplogroups ends the idea that their ancestors weren’t mixed.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    The sex chromosomes and mitochondrial DNA are two essential components of your genes. If you have an African Y-chromosome, for instance, a substantial part of what makes you and your offapring is African, with phenotypical effects. Y-chromosome haplotypes and mitochondrial DNA are direct genetic descent and unlike all other forms of DNA, do not “recombine” and aren’t masked by admixture.
     
    I suggest you read a basic text book on genetics or just do a search on mtDNA, yDNA, and atDNA on the web, as it's clear you don't seem to understand the basic concepts of those terms.

    "African Y-chromosome" is not "a substantial part of what makes... African." Determining yDNA and mtDNA haplogroups allows for discovering the patrilineal and matrilineal lineages in one's ancestry, but only accounts for a small fraction of one's ancestors. AP already explained this in a way even a grade schooler should be able to understand. Lineages are a very different concept than genetic composition. If I descended patrilineally from an African male ancestor (who belonged to a haplogroup with a high frequency in sub-Saharan Africa) who was taken from Africa and then transplanted elsewhere in the world, I would be tested as belonging to that haplogroup even if the rest of my ancestry down the multiple generations were non-African. My phenotype would be non-African and, for all intents and purposes, I would be non-African (with a tiny fraction of African genes). The same with matrilineal lineages.

    If there is nowhere in Cuba where regional ancestry is predominantly European, there is no reason to believe that the Cubans who came to America were. Region also accounts for class
     
    Your premise is simply wrong, even judging by lineage frequencies claimed in the cited study (patrilineally predominantly European, matrilineally fractionally European). And region does not account for class. Those are separate phenomena. You are saying that each region has economically and socially identical within-region populations, which is a complete nonsense. Every region has elites and underclasses, just about everywhere in the world, but particularly in societies with a high degree of relatively recent ethnic mixes.

    there is no evidence that historically “European” areas in Cuba are actually genetically unmixed Europeans in this study.
     
    This is a silly straw man. No one claimed that Cuba was full of "unmixed Europeans." What I and others suggested instead was that there was variance in ethno-racial mix among pre-revolution Cubans based on economic and social class, as was historically the case in just about all Spanish-colonized regions in the world, in which those with higher fractions of European ancestry predominated the elite strata of those societies, Cuba included. Furthermore, I and others put forth the fact that the early Cuban exiles were disproportionally from this group of former property-owners and professionals in their country of origin.

    I thought earlier that perhaps you were simply misinformed about a lot of the assertions you made here (e.g. Hispanics allegedly having longer lifespans than Asians in America, et. al.), but it seems to me now that you are engaging in deliberate obfuscations and untruths... for what purpose I cannot tell, especially since these falsehoods can be debunked easily with a click of a mouse.
  28. @AP
    I dunno. I've known a few educated Cubans and they look completely European, which doesn't exclude maybe some 5% or so slight mixture but would exclude 10% or 20% or more non-European descent.

    Marco Rubio did his DNA and he was over 92% European:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/marco-rubios-dna/

    I don't think he is so unique as a Cuban-American.

    Apparently there was a large wave of Spanish immigration to Cuba in the early 20th century (Fidel Castro's father was among those), so there must be a lot of people with all Spanish grandparents.

    He was 92% European autosomally (which doesn’t really matter that much as autosomal ancestry can recombine and be masked rather easily) but his mitochondrial haplogroup, and therefore the machines in his blood that power his body, was Native American, and thus, like most Cubans, his X chromosomal repeats are most likely more Amerind and African than European. Ethnic/racial ancestry and mixture is more appropriately measured at the sex chromosomal and mitochondrial regions.

    • Troll: EddieK
    • Replies: @AP

    his mitochondrial haplogroup, and therefore the machines in his blood that power his body, was Native American, and thus like ike most Cubans, his X chromosomal repeats are most likely more Amerind and African than European
     
    AFAIK, his mitochondrial haplogroup just means that one pinpoint on his family tree (his mother's mother's mother's etc. ultimate ancestor) is Native. Overall he is only of 4.6% Native ancestry:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DzUwoWmXgAAOffh.png

    Similarly, one's paternal haplogroup indicates ultimate origin of one's father's father's etc. It's also only a pinpoint.

    So if an African-American male is the latest in an unbroken chain of male descendants stemming from a European who impregnated a slave in the 18th century, and has no other Europeans in his family tree, he will have a European paternal haplogroup despite being only 1% or whatever European.* Marco Rubio's Native maternal ancestry is a bit like that. At 4.6% there were a few more native ancestors, but not many.

    * Of course among African Americans in general there has been a lot of mixing so they are about 20% European origin, on average. I'm just making an example here.
    , @EddieK
    Autosomal DNA means nothing? It provides much more information than mTDNA or yDNA. Quit talking out your ass.
  29. First of all, the paper deals with frequencies of mtDNA (mother-side) and Y-chromosome (father-side) lineages. They are not the same things as genetic compositions of individuals.

    The sex chromosomes and mitochondrial DNA are two essential components of your genes. If you have an African Y-chromosome, for instance, a substantial part of what makes you and your offapring is African, with phenotypical effects. Y-chromosome haplotypes and mitochondrial DNA are direct genetic descent and unlike all other forms of DNA, do not “recombine” and aren’t masked by admixture.

    Second, the paper codes these lineage frequencies by regions. It does not code them by class (or educational attainment, income, etc.) within them, and hence says nothing about the genetic composition variances by class. Indeed, given that earlier Cuban immigrant cohorts in the U.S. were disproportionally drawn from the propertied and those with potable professional skills and since these exiles were not sampled, there is no basis for claiming what you do above.

    If there is nowhere in Cuba where regional ancestry is predominantly European, there is no reason to believe that the Cubans who came to America were. Region also accounts for class, and there is no evidence that historically “European” areas in Cuba are actually genetically unmixed Europeans in this study. If anything, it’s the opposite: Sancti Spiritus seems to have been formed by heavy racial admixture.

    Fourth, the authors acknowledge that their results are in conflict with those of another study – “Our results differ from a previous independent study carried out in the Cuban province of Pinar del Rio [36], whose authors estimated that 50% of maternal lineages in this province were of European, 46% African, and a maximum 4% of Native American origin.”

    That’s not a “conflict” — they simply aconowledge that one study found that one province in Cuba was a bit more European maternally than the highest Euro province in this study (Cienfuegos). Still heavily mixed at about 50% non-European.

    Finally, even setting all these issues with the study aside, what is rather crystal clear is that a large subset (possibly a majority) of the combined male-female ancestry lineage frequencies is European in origin.

    The combined Euro male-Black/Amerind female ancestry is much larger.

    Another study finds that Native American and African ancestry is bigger on the X chromosomes of Cubans, than European ancestry:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-29851-3

    We detected patterns of sex-biased gene flow in all fifteen Cuban provinces (Fig. 3). We found higher African and Native American ancestries on the X-chromosome than on autosomes, and the opposite pattern for European ancestry (Fig. 3a, Supplementary Table S5, and Supplementary Fig. S9). The admixture difference ratios (ΔAdmix ratios)29 between the X-chromosome and autosomes show positive values when considering African and Native American ancestries (Fig. 3b), thus reflecting higher female-specific admixture from both continental ancestries, while negative values for European ancestry evidence an excess of European male-specific admixture

    Only 19% of European migrants to Cuba were female:

    Historical sources point to a marked gender imbalance during the TAST48,49, with more enslaved African men than women forcefully brought to Cuba (on average 69%)10,11, and more Spanish men than women migrating to that region (81% of Spanish immigrants)6,7.

    With all provinces of Cuba having majority nonEuro maternal ancestry, and quite a few with substantial African paternal ancestry, there’s no way Cubans are walking around with much European X-chromosomal DNA. Practically all of them directly descend from a mixture. The fact that Cuban Americans like Marco Rubio and the rest of the upper middle-higher class people on 23andMe and FTDNA tend to have African or Amerind mtDNA haplogroups ends the idea that their ancestors weren’t mixed.

    • Replies: @AP

    If you have an African Y-chromosome, for instance, a substantial part of what makes you and your offapring is African, with phenotypical effects.
     
    Really? So if someone has a single African ancestor from 1700 and is 99% of European descent he will be substantially African if that African ancestor happens to be his ultimate patrilinear ancestor?

    My father-in-law has an Asian paternal grandmother. He is 25% Asian. But both his maternal and paternal haplogroups are European. You are suggesting that the Asian ancestry is somehow irrelevant because it is not reflected in his haplogroups? Yet the guy looks very Asian.

    If there is nowhere in Cuba where regional ancestry is predominantly European, there is no reason to believe that the Cubans who came to America were.
     
    At this point almost no American cities are predominantly European. Does this mean that there is no reason to believe that, say, a white guy from Chicago (which is only about 1/3 European) is not predominantly European? Why would it be different for a clearly white-looking person from Cuba?
  30. @Sam Coulton
    He was 92% European autosomally (which doesn't really matter that much as autosomal ancestry can recombine and be masked rather easily) but his mitochondrial haplogroup, and therefore the machines in his blood that power his body, was Native American, and thus, like most Cubans, his X chromosomal repeats are most likely more Amerind and African than European. Ethnic/racial ancestry and mixture is more appropriately measured at the sex chromosomal and mitochondrial regions.

    his mitochondrial haplogroup, and therefore the machines in his blood that power his body, was Native American, and thus like ike most Cubans, his X chromosomal repeats are most likely more Amerind and African than European

    AFAIK, his mitochondrial haplogroup just means that one pinpoint on his family tree (his mother’s mother’s mother’s etc. ultimate ancestor) is Native. Overall he is only of 4.6% Native ancestry:

    Similarly, one’s paternal haplogroup indicates ultimate origin of one’s father’s father’s etc. It’s also only a pinpoint.

    So if an African-American male is the latest in an unbroken chain of male descendants stemming from a European who impregnated a slave in the 18th century, and has no other Europeans in his family tree, he will have a European paternal haplogroup despite being only 1% or whatever European.* Marco Rubio’s Native maternal ancestry is a bit like that. At 4.6% there were a few more native ancestors, but not many.

    * Of course among African Americans in general there has been a lot of mixing so they are about 20% European origin, on average. I’m just making an example here.

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton

    Similarly, one’s paternal haplogroup indicates ultimate origin of one’s father’s father’s etc. It’s also only a pinpoint.
     
    It's not merely a pinpoint; but a systematically functional component of your genetics, with implications for health and adaptation. Different ancestral haplogroups have different functionality. Mitochondrial DNA haplogroups are associated with longevity and the aging process, and also with male sperm motility and body temperature.

    https://www.fasebj.org/doi/abs/10.1096/fasebj.13.12.1532


    All nine haplogroups that are typical of Europeans were found in both samples, but male centenarians emerged in northern Italy as a particular sample: 1) mtDNA haplogroup frequency distribution was different between centenarians and younger individuals (P=0.017 by permutation tests); and 2) the frequency of the J haplogroup was notably higher in centenarians than in younger individuals (P=0.0052 by Fisher exact test). Since haplogroups are defined on the basis of inherited variants, these data show that mtDNA inherited variability could play a role in successful aging and longevity.
     
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929707632558

    A variety of mtDNA mutations responsible for human diseases have been associated with molecular defects in the OXPHOS system. It has been proposed that mtDNA genetic alterations can also be responsible for sperm dysfunction. In addition, it was suggested that if sperm dysfunction is the main phenotypic consequence, these mutations could be fixed as stable mtDNA variants, because mtDNA is maternally inherited. To test this possibility, we have performed an extensive analysis of the distribution of mtDNA haplogroups in white men having fertility problems. We have found that asthenozoospermia, but not oligozoospermia, is associated with mtDNA haplogroups in whites. Thus, haplogroups H and T are significantly more abundant in nonasthenozoospermic and asthenozoospermic populations, respectively, and show significant differences in their OXPHOS performance.
     
    Different Y-DNA haplogroups are associated with male hormone levels, verbal aggression, coronary artery disease, intelligence and standing height.

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/andr.12026


    We found that the haplogroup D2a1 was significantly associated with high LH levels in a combined analysis involving two cohorts (β = 0.068, SE = 0.025, p = 0.0075), following correction for multiple testing. To date, this result is the first evidence that implicates Y chromosome haplogroups in an association with sex hormone levels.
     
    ^The Haplogroup D in Japanese comes from the Ainu-like Jomon people. And it shows how the physical effects of sex chromosomes after a race mixing event persist even after the population becomes "majority" whatever autosomally. On the basis of hormone production alone, haplogroup D shapes the face of Japanese men, producing facial hair and bone growth differences which make them "look" something other than East Asian.

    Y-DNA haplogroups linked to cognitive tendencies:
    https://lesacreduprintemps19.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/haprinderm.pdf

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S002191501300765X


    Approximately 17% men inherited haplogroup I from their fathers. Carriers of haplogroup I showed lower scores of verbal aggression than men with other haplogroups (β = −0.72, SE = 0.29, P = 0.012) and when further compared to carriers of most common R1a lineage and other haplogroups (β = −1.03, SE = 0.34, P = 0.003). However, these associations did not survive a correction for multiple testing. Sex steroids did not show even nominal level of association with haplogroup I.
     
    ^ Haplogroup I may be associated with lower verbal aggression as compared with R1a.


    These haplogroups are not just "pinpoints of ancestry" they're enduring systems that remain unaltered by autosomal ancestry, and we're only beginning to understand how they work. If for example Craig Cobb carries an African paternal haplogroup, that's a fundamental part of who he is and who his descendants will be, and somethinf that can never be diluted with autosomal ancestry.

  31. @AP

    his mitochondrial haplogroup, and therefore the machines in his blood that power his body, was Native American, and thus like ike most Cubans, his X chromosomal repeats are most likely more Amerind and African than European
     
    AFAIK, his mitochondrial haplogroup just means that one pinpoint on his family tree (his mother's mother's mother's etc. ultimate ancestor) is Native. Overall he is only of 4.6% Native ancestry:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DzUwoWmXgAAOffh.png

    Similarly, one's paternal haplogroup indicates ultimate origin of one's father's father's etc. It's also only a pinpoint.

    So if an African-American male is the latest in an unbroken chain of male descendants stemming from a European who impregnated a slave in the 18th century, and has no other Europeans in his family tree, he will have a European paternal haplogroup despite being only 1% or whatever European.* Marco Rubio's Native maternal ancestry is a bit like that. At 4.6% there were a few more native ancestors, but not many.

    * Of course among African Americans in general there has been a lot of mixing so they are about 20% European origin, on average. I'm just making an example here.

    Similarly, one’s paternal haplogroup indicates ultimate origin of one’s father’s father’s etc. It’s also only a pinpoint.

    It’s not merely a pinpoint; but a systematically functional component of your genetics, with implications for health and adaptation. Different ancestral haplogroups have different functionality. Mitochondrial DNA haplogroups are associated with longevity and the aging process, and also with male sperm motility and body temperature.

    https://www.fasebj.org/doi/abs/10.1096/fasebj.13.12.1532

    All nine haplogroups that are typical of Europeans were found in both samples, but male centenarians emerged in northern Italy as a particular sample: 1) mtDNA haplogroup frequency distribution was different between centenarians and younger individuals (P=0.017 by permutation tests); and 2) the frequency of the J haplogroup was notably higher in centenarians than in younger individuals (P=0.0052 by Fisher exact test). Since haplogroups are defined on the basis of inherited variants, these data show that mtDNA inherited variability could play a role in successful aging and longevity.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929707632558

    A variety of mtDNA mutations responsible for human diseases have been associated with molecular defects in the OXPHOS system. It has been proposed that mtDNA genetic alterations can also be responsible for sperm dysfunction. In addition, it was suggested that if sperm dysfunction is the main phenotypic consequence, these mutations could be fixed as stable mtDNA variants, because mtDNA is maternally inherited. To test this possibility, we have performed an extensive analysis of the distribution of mtDNA haplogroups in white men having fertility problems. We have found that asthenozoospermia, but not oligozoospermia, is associated with mtDNA haplogroups in whites. Thus, haplogroups H and T are significantly more abundant in nonasthenozoospermic and asthenozoospermic populations, respectively, and show significant differences in their OXPHOS performance.

    Different Y-DNA haplogroups are associated with male hormone levels, verbal aggression, coronary artery disease, intelligence and standing height.

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/andr.12026

    We found that the haplogroup D2a1 was significantly associated with high LH levels in a combined analysis involving two cohorts (β = 0.068, SE = 0.025, p = 0.0075), following correction for multiple testing. To date, this result is the first evidence that implicates Y chromosome haplogroups in an association with sex hormone levels.

    ^The Haplogroup D in Japanese comes from the Ainu-like Jomon people. And it shows how the physical effects of sex chromosomes after a race mixing event persist even after the population becomes “majority” whatever autosomally. On the basis of hormone production alone, haplogroup D shapes the face of Japanese men, producing facial hair and bone growth differences which make them “look” something other than East Asian.

    Y-DNA haplogroups linked to cognitive tendencies:
    https://lesacreduprintemps19.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/haprinderm.pdf

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S002191501300765X

    Approximately 17% men inherited haplogroup I from their fathers. Carriers of haplogroup I showed lower scores of verbal aggression than men with other haplogroups (β = −0.72, SE = 0.29, P = 0.012) and when further compared to carriers of most common R1a lineage and other haplogroups (β = −1.03, SE = 0.34, P = 0.003). However, these associations did not survive a correction for multiple testing. Sex steroids did not show even nominal level of association with haplogroup I.

    ^ Haplogroup I may be associated with lower verbal aggression as compared with R1a.

    These haplogroups are not just “pinpoints of ancestry” they’re enduring systems that remain unaltered by autosomal ancestry, and we’re only beginning to understand how they work. If for example Craig Cobb carries an African paternal haplogroup, that’s a fundamental part of who he is and who his descendants will be, and somethinf that can never be diluted with autosomal ancestry.

  32. @ziel
    The estimated IQ's in these two charts are unlikely to be one-to-one comparable, but still, the averages listed for Spain and Italy are 94, while the IQ's in Audacious's list are lower than that in all but 5 states - so how do you get that they're higher than for Southern Europeans. Also, Cubans in the U.S. are not heavily African-admixed.

    “the averages listed for Spain and Italy are 94, while the IQ’s in Audacious’s list are lower than that in all but 5 states – so how do you get that they’re higher than for Southern Europeans. ”

    He’s innumerate and/or a liar.

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton
    Actually, you two are illiterate. I said the distribution of IQ was higher in Hispanic Americans than in southern Europeans . Southern European IQ ranges from 82 (Albania) to 94 (Spain). Hispanic American IQ ranges from 86 (Rhode Island) to 95 (Montana).

    If you want to talk absolute numbers, US Hispanics in Montana, Mississippi and Florida are higher IQ than Spaniards.

    And that's with more poverty, shittier healthcare (Spaniard system is famous for its quality and access), shittier nutrition, etc. If they had the fortune of born in Spain, Hispanic Americans might have IQs of 100.

  33. @Herbert West
    “the averages listed for Spain and Italy are 94, while the IQ’s in Audacious’s list are lower than that in all but 5 states – so how do you get that they’re higher than for Southern Europeans. ”

    He’s innumerate and/or a liar.

    Actually, you two are illiterate. I said the distribution of IQ was higher in Hispanic Americans than in southern Europeans . Southern European IQ ranges from 82 (Albania) to 94 (Spain). Hispanic American IQ ranges from 86 (Rhode Island) to 95 (Montana).

    If you want to talk absolute numbers, US Hispanics in Montana, Mississippi and Florida are higher IQ than Spaniards.

    And that’s with more poverty, shittier healthcare (Spaniard system is famous for its quality and access), shittier nutrition, etc. If they had the fortune of born in Spain, Hispanic Americans might have IQs of 100.

  34. @Sam Coulton
    He was 92% European autosomally (which doesn't really matter that much as autosomal ancestry can recombine and be masked rather easily) but his mitochondrial haplogroup, and therefore the machines in his blood that power his body, was Native American, and thus, like most Cubans, his X chromosomal repeats are most likely more Amerind and African than European. Ethnic/racial ancestry and mixture is more appropriately measured at the sex chromosomal and mitochondrial regions.

    Autosomal DNA means nothing? It provides much more information than mTDNA or yDNA. Quit talking out your ass.

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton
    No it doesn't. Try finding me a man without a Y chromosome, you'll soon realize how Y-DNA matters. Autosomal means nothing, recombines with other shit too much and can't tell us anything about population or familial history. That's why the Out of Africa theory of modern human origins was built on mtDNA and Y-DNA. Not autosomal.
  35. @EddieK
    Autosomal DNA means nothing? It provides much more information than mTDNA or yDNA. Quit talking out your ass.

    No it doesn’t. Try finding me a man without a Y chromosome, you’ll soon realize how Y-DNA matters. Autosomal means nothing, recombines with other shit too much and can’t tell us anything about population or familial history. That’s why the Out of Africa theory of modern human origins was built on mtDNA and Y-DNA. Not autosomal.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Try finding me a man without a Y chromosome, you’ll soon realize how Y-DNA matters. Autosomal means nothing, recombines with other shit too much and can’t tell us anything about population or familial history.
     
    This is like saying "Find a man without a paternal great grandfather. The other great grandfathers and great grandmothers mean nothing."

    That’s why the Out of Africa theory of modern human origins was built on mtDNA and Y-DNA.
     
    I can't make the words any simpler. Look up in the dictionary "lineage" and "composition." Your total genetic composition is what determines who you are biologically. It also determines your biological race. A lineage tells you a line of descent - father-to-son to father-to-son in the case of patrilineality and mother-to-daughter to mother-to-daughter in the case of matrilineality.
  36. @Truth
    The "schoolmarm" thing, Bro?

    Don't apologize for attempting civility, just do it fairly, and consistently.

    The self-depreciation is sort of like black people who read,and eat salad depreciating themselves "acting white" jokes.

    Fair points. I do want it to be clear that people who have comments deleted will have been warned, though. It sucks to put some time and thought into something just to have it vanish, which is why I filter out comments as infrequently as I’m able to while still being true to the guidelines.

  37. @Anonymous
    I'd be curious to see if audacious has by-state IQ estimates for native americans and asians. It's interesting to see that Hispanics diverge even more than Blacks and Whites do from each other.

    You'd think that some states would attract the highest IQ people of all races, but clearly that's not the case.

    There are only a handful of states that have American Indian numbers, but about half of them have Asian figures. That’s coming soon.

  38. @Jim bob Lassiter
    Puerto Rico is a basket case, and as such, they probably don't even release the data.

    They only did the math assessment in 2019, but yes, the scores are abysmal–worse than any US state by far.

  39. @Sam Coulton

    First of all, the paper deals with frequencies of mtDNA (mother-side) and Y-chromosome (father-side) lineages. They are not the same things as genetic compositions of individuals.
     
    The sex chromosomes and mitochondrial DNA are two essential components of your genes. If you have an African Y-chromosome, for instance, a substantial part of what makes you and your offapring is African, with phenotypical effects. Y-chromosome haplotypes and mitochondrial DNA are direct genetic descent and unlike all other forms of DNA, do not "recombine" and aren't masked by admixture.

    Second, the paper codes these lineage frequencies by regions. It does not code them by class (or educational attainment, income, etc.) within them, and hence says nothing about the genetic composition variances by class. Indeed, given that earlier Cuban immigrant cohorts in the U.S. were disproportionally drawn from the propertied and those with potable professional skills and since these exiles were not sampled, there is no basis for claiming what you do above.
     
    If there is nowhere in Cuba where regional ancestry is predominantly European, there is no reason to believe that the Cubans who came to America were. Region also accounts for class, and there is no evidence that historically "European" areas in Cuba are actually genetically unmixed Europeans in this study. If anything, it's the opposite: Sancti Spiritus seems to have been formed by heavy racial admixture.

    Fourth, the authors acknowledge that their results are in conflict with those of another study – “Our results differ from a previous independent study carried out in the Cuban province of Pinar del Rio [36], whose authors estimated that 50% of maternal lineages in this province were of European, 46% African, and a maximum 4% of Native American origin.”
     
    That's not a "conflict" -- they simply aconowledge that one study found that one province in Cuba was a bit more European maternally than the highest Euro province in this study (Cienfuegos). Still heavily mixed at about 50% non-European.

    Finally, even setting all these issues with the study aside, what is rather crystal clear is that a large subset (possibly a majority) of the combined male-female ancestry lineage frequencies is European in origin.
     
    The combined Euro male-Black/Amerind female ancestry is much larger.

    Another study finds that Native American and African ancestry is bigger on the X chromosomes of Cubans, than European ancestry:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-29851-3

    We detected patterns of sex-biased gene flow in all fifteen Cuban provinces (Fig. 3). We found higher African and Native American ancestries on the X-chromosome than on autosomes, and the opposite pattern for European ancestry (Fig. 3a, Supplementary Table S5, and Supplementary Fig. S9). The admixture difference ratios (ΔAdmix ratios)29 between the X-chromosome and autosomes show positive values when considering African and Native American ancestries (Fig. 3b), thus reflecting higher female-specific admixture from both continental ancestries, while negative values for European ancestry evidence an excess of European male-specific admixture
     
    Only 19% of European migrants to Cuba were female:

    Historical sources point to a marked gender imbalance during the TAST48,49, with more enslaved African men than women forcefully brought to Cuba (on average 69%)10,11, and more Spanish men than women migrating to that region (81% of Spanish immigrants)6,7.
     
    With all provinces of Cuba having majority nonEuro maternal ancestry, and quite a few with substantial African paternal ancestry, there's no way Cubans are walking around with much European X-chromosomal DNA. Practically all of them directly descend from a mixture. The fact that Cuban Americans like Marco Rubio and the rest of the upper middle-higher class people on 23andMe and FTDNA tend to have African or Amerind mtDNA haplogroups ends the idea that their ancestors weren't mixed.

    If you have an African Y-chromosome, for instance, a substantial part of what makes you and your offapring is African, with phenotypical effects.

    Really? So if someone has a single African ancestor from 1700 and is 99% of European descent he will be substantially African if that African ancestor happens to be his ultimate patrilinear ancestor?

    My father-in-law has an Asian paternal grandmother. He is 25% Asian. But both his maternal and paternal haplogroups are European. You are suggesting that the Asian ancestry is somehow irrelevant because it is not reflected in his haplogroups? Yet the guy looks very Asian.

    If there is nowhere in Cuba where regional ancestry is predominantly European, there is no reason to believe that the Cubans who came to America were.

    At this point almost no American cities are predominantly European. Does this mean that there is no reason to believe that, say, a white guy from Chicago (which is only about 1/3 European) is not predominantly European? Why would it be different for a clearly white-looking person from Cuba?

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Really? So if someone has a single African ancestor from 1700 and is 99% of European descent he will be substantially African if that African ancestor happens to be his ultimate patrilinear ancestor?
     
    One drop rule! ;)
  40. @Sam Coulton

    First of all, the paper deals with frequencies of mtDNA (mother-side) and Y-chromosome (father-side) lineages. They are not the same things as genetic compositions of individuals.
     
    The sex chromosomes and mitochondrial DNA are two essential components of your genes. If you have an African Y-chromosome, for instance, a substantial part of what makes you and your offapring is African, with phenotypical effects. Y-chromosome haplotypes and mitochondrial DNA are direct genetic descent and unlike all other forms of DNA, do not "recombine" and aren't masked by admixture.

    Second, the paper codes these lineage frequencies by regions. It does not code them by class (or educational attainment, income, etc.) within them, and hence says nothing about the genetic composition variances by class. Indeed, given that earlier Cuban immigrant cohorts in the U.S. were disproportionally drawn from the propertied and those with potable professional skills and since these exiles were not sampled, there is no basis for claiming what you do above.
     
    If there is nowhere in Cuba where regional ancestry is predominantly European, there is no reason to believe that the Cubans who came to America were. Region also accounts for class, and there is no evidence that historically "European" areas in Cuba are actually genetically unmixed Europeans in this study. If anything, it's the opposite: Sancti Spiritus seems to have been formed by heavy racial admixture.

    Fourth, the authors acknowledge that their results are in conflict with those of another study – “Our results differ from a previous independent study carried out in the Cuban province of Pinar del Rio [36], whose authors estimated that 50% of maternal lineages in this province were of European, 46% African, and a maximum 4% of Native American origin.”
     
    That's not a "conflict" -- they simply aconowledge that one study found that one province in Cuba was a bit more European maternally than the highest Euro province in this study (Cienfuegos). Still heavily mixed at about 50% non-European.

    Finally, even setting all these issues with the study aside, what is rather crystal clear is that a large subset (possibly a majority) of the combined male-female ancestry lineage frequencies is European in origin.
     
    The combined Euro male-Black/Amerind female ancestry is much larger.

    Another study finds that Native American and African ancestry is bigger on the X chromosomes of Cubans, than European ancestry:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-29851-3


    We detected patterns of sex-biased gene flow in all fifteen Cuban provinces (Fig. 3). We found higher African and Native American ancestries on the X-chromosome than on autosomes, and the opposite pattern for European ancestry (Fig. 3a, Supplementary Table S5, and Supplementary Fig. S9). The admixture difference ratios (ΔAdmix ratios)29 between the X-chromosome and autosomes show positive values when considering African and Native American ancestries (Fig. 3b), thus reflecting higher female-specific admixture from both continental ancestries, while negative values for European ancestry evidence an excess of European male-specific admixture
     
    Only 19% of European migrants to Cuba were female:

    Historical sources point to a marked gender imbalance during the TAST48,49, with more enslaved African men than women forcefully brought to Cuba (on average 69%)10,11, and more Spanish men than women migrating to that region (81% of Spanish immigrants)6,7.
     
    With all provinces of Cuba having majority nonEuro maternal ancestry, and quite a few with substantial African paternal ancestry, there's no way Cubans are walking around with much European X-chromosomal DNA. Practically all of them directly descend from a mixture. The fact that Cuban Americans like Marco Rubio and the rest of the upper middle-higher class people on 23andMe and FTDNA tend to have African or Amerind mtDNA haplogroups ends the idea that their ancestors weren't mixed.

    The sex chromosomes and mitochondrial DNA are two essential components of your genes. If you have an African Y-chromosome, for instance, a substantial part of what makes you and your offapring is African, with phenotypical effects. Y-chromosome haplotypes and mitochondrial DNA are direct genetic descent and unlike all other forms of DNA, do not “recombine” and aren’t masked by admixture.

    I suggest you read a basic text book on genetics or just do a search on mtDNA, yDNA, and atDNA on the web, as it’s clear you don’t seem to understand the basic concepts of those terms.

    “African Y-chromosome” is not “a substantial part of what makes… African.” Determining yDNA and mtDNA haplogroups allows for discovering the patrilineal and matrilineal lineages in one’s ancestry, but only accounts for a small fraction of one’s ancestors. AP already explained this in a way even a grade schooler should be able to understand. Lineages are a very different concept than genetic composition. If I descended patrilineally from an African male ancestor (who belonged to a haplogroup with a high frequency in sub-Saharan Africa) who was taken from Africa and then transplanted elsewhere in the world, I would be tested as belonging to that haplogroup even if the rest of my ancestry down the multiple generations were non-African. My phenotype would be non-African and, for all intents and purposes, I would be non-African (with a tiny fraction of African genes). The same with matrilineal lineages.

    If there is nowhere in Cuba where regional ancestry is predominantly European, there is no reason to believe that the Cubans who came to America were. Region also accounts for class

    Your premise is simply wrong, even judging by lineage frequencies claimed in the cited study (patrilineally predominantly European, matrilineally fractionally European). And region does not account for class. Those are separate phenomena. You are saying that each region has economically and socially identical within-region populations, which is a complete nonsense. Every region has elites and underclasses, just about everywhere in the world, but particularly in societies with a high degree of relatively recent ethnic mixes.

    there is no evidence that historically “European” areas in Cuba are actually genetically unmixed Europeans in this study.

    This is a silly straw man. No one claimed that Cuba was full of “unmixed Europeans.” What I and others suggested instead was that there was variance in ethno-racial mix among pre-revolution Cubans based on economic and social class, as was historically the case in just about all Spanish-colonized regions in the world, in which those with higher fractions of European ancestry predominated the elite strata of those societies, Cuba included. Furthermore, I and others put forth the fact that the early Cuban exiles were disproportionally from this group of former property-owners and professionals in their country of origin.

    I thought earlier that perhaps you were simply misinformed about a lot of the assertions you made here (e.g. Hispanics allegedly having longer lifespans than Asians in America, et. al.), but it seems to me now that you are engaging in deliberate obfuscations and untruths… for what purpose I cannot tell, especially since these falsehoods can be debunked easily with a click of a mouse.

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Sam Coulton
    You and AP are clueless; I already showed you the phenotypical and genotypical implications of haplogroups and you're still coping about this "90% European autosomally" crap. Autosomal K-admixture percentages mean nothing. And FYI Hispanics *do* live longer than Asians in America.
  41. @Sam Coulton
    No it doesn't. Try finding me a man without a Y chromosome, you'll soon realize how Y-DNA matters. Autosomal means nothing, recombines with other shit too much and can't tell us anything about population or familial history. That's why the Out of Africa theory of modern human origins was built on mtDNA and Y-DNA. Not autosomal.

    Try finding me a man without a Y chromosome, you’ll soon realize how Y-DNA matters. Autosomal means nothing, recombines with other shit too much and can’t tell us anything about population or familial history.

    This is like saying “Find a man without a paternal great grandfather. The other great grandfathers and great grandmothers mean nothing.”

    That’s why the Out of Africa theory of modern human origins was built on mtDNA and Y-DNA.

    I can’t make the words any simpler. Look up in the dictionary “lineage” and “composition.” Your total genetic composition is what determines who you are biologically. It also determines your biological race. A lineage tells you a line of descent – father-to-son to father-to-son in the case of patrilineality and mother-to-daughter to mother-to-daughter in the case of matrilineality.

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton
    What a buffoon. My point, since you didn't get it, was that if you don't have a Y-chromosome, you aren't male. The Y-chromosome is behind much of the differences between males and females, just like women having an exrra X chromosome is a large part of what makes them female. In spife the fact that men are, *autosomally*, identical to women. Sex chromosomes are the "spark" that make us what we are, and different haplogroups are different "models" of Y-chromosomes, with wildy differing clinical implications.

    Your statement "[the] total genetic composition is what determines who you are biologically. " is utterly and laughably wrong. It's actually tiny areas of your genetic composition that makes you who you are, biologically. There is also no autosomal genetic basis for "race" if you haven't been updated on the consensus of geneticists.

  42. @AP

    If you have an African Y-chromosome, for instance, a substantial part of what makes you and your offapring is African, with phenotypical effects.
     
    Really? So if someone has a single African ancestor from 1700 and is 99% of European descent he will be substantially African if that African ancestor happens to be his ultimate patrilinear ancestor?

    My father-in-law has an Asian paternal grandmother. He is 25% Asian. But both his maternal and paternal haplogroups are European. You are suggesting that the Asian ancestry is somehow irrelevant because it is not reflected in his haplogroups? Yet the guy looks very Asian.

    If there is nowhere in Cuba where regional ancestry is predominantly European, there is no reason to believe that the Cubans who came to America were.
     
    At this point almost no American cities are predominantly European. Does this mean that there is no reason to believe that, say, a white guy from Chicago (which is only about 1/3 European) is not predominantly European? Why would it be different for a clearly white-looking person from Cuba?

    Really? So if someone has a single African ancestor from 1700 and is 99% of European descent he will be substantially African if that African ancestor happens to be his ultimate patrilinear ancestor?

    One drop rule! 😉

  43. Becker’s data is a mix of IQ tests and educational achievement tests over many decades, and Spain was quite poor until fairly recently.

    If you look at a current educational test like PISA, Spain scores the IQ equivalent of 98.8:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/world-map-of-pisa-2015-results/

    Also, Spaniards have higher polygenic scores than Latin Americans:

    https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Correlation-between-EDU3-PGS-and-population-IQ_fig1_332076417

  44. @Twinkie

    The sex chromosomes and mitochondrial DNA are two essential components of your genes. If you have an African Y-chromosome, for instance, a substantial part of what makes you and your offapring is African, with phenotypical effects. Y-chromosome haplotypes and mitochondrial DNA are direct genetic descent and unlike all other forms of DNA, do not “recombine” and aren’t masked by admixture.
     
    I suggest you read a basic text book on genetics or just do a search on mtDNA, yDNA, and atDNA on the web, as it's clear you don't seem to understand the basic concepts of those terms.

    "African Y-chromosome" is not "a substantial part of what makes... African." Determining yDNA and mtDNA haplogroups allows for discovering the patrilineal and matrilineal lineages in one's ancestry, but only accounts for a small fraction of one's ancestors. AP already explained this in a way even a grade schooler should be able to understand. Lineages are a very different concept than genetic composition. If I descended patrilineally from an African male ancestor (who belonged to a haplogroup with a high frequency in sub-Saharan Africa) who was taken from Africa and then transplanted elsewhere in the world, I would be tested as belonging to that haplogroup even if the rest of my ancestry down the multiple generations were non-African. My phenotype would be non-African and, for all intents and purposes, I would be non-African (with a tiny fraction of African genes). The same with matrilineal lineages.

    If there is nowhere in Cuba where regional ancestry is predominantly European, there is no reason to believe that the Cubans who came to America were. Region also accounts for class
     
    Your premise is simply wrong, even judging by lineage frequencies claimed in the cited study (patrilineally predominantly European, matrilineally fractionally European). And region does not account for class. Those are separate phenomena. You are saying that each region has economically and socially identical within-region populations, which is a complete nonsense. Every region has elites and underclasses, just about everywhere in the world, but particularly in societies with a high degree of relatively recent ethnic mixes.

    there is no evidence that historically “European” areas in Cuba are actually genetically unmixed Europeans in this study.
     
    This is a silly straw man. No one claimed that Cuba was full of "unmixed Europeans." What I and others suggested instead was that there was variance in ethno-racial mix among pre-revolution Cubans based on economic and social class, as was historically the case in just about all Spanish-colonized regions in the world, in which those with higher fractions of European ancestry predominated the elite strata of those societies, Cuba included. Furthermore, I and others put forth the fact that the early Cuban exiles were disproportionally from this group of former property-owners and professionals in their country of origin.

    I thought earlier that perhaps you were simply misinformed about a lot of the assertions you made here (e.g. Hispanics allegedly having longer lifespans than Asians in America, et. al.), but it seems to me now that you are engaging in deliberate obfuscations and untruths... for what purpose I cannot tell, especially since these falsehoods can be debunked easily with a click of a mouse.

    You and AP are clueless; I already showed you the phenotypical and genotypical implications of haplogroups and you’re still coping about this “90% European autosomally” crap. Autosomal K-admixture percentages mean nothing. And FYI Hispanics *do* live longer than Asians in America.

    • Replies: @AP
    I am still coping with the fact that according to your logic my relatives from Chicago must be mostly Mexican and Black because their city is only 33% white. I had no idea I had such a multiracial family!

    Meanwhile:

    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0029687

    Furthermore, 30–40% of the paternal lineages in African descent populations in the Americas are of European ancestry.

    That's a lot of blacks who aren't really blacks, according to you.

    This African-American blogger found out he had European maternal origins:

    https://miro.medium.com/fit/c/128/128/1*kFkKTCWonc8R5MXrcFl17g.jpeg

    Amazing.

    , @Twinkie

    And FYI Hispanics *do* live longer than Asians in America.
     
    I already addressed this above: https://www.unz.com/anepigone/average-hispanic-iq-by-state-2019/#comment-3574838

    https://www.thebalance.com/the-racial-life-expectancy-gap-in-the-u-s-4588898

    Life expectancies based on race are from the Center for Disease Control (CDC) data which is available up until 2014. It happens that 2014 is the year in which the highest life expectancy occurred and it has been declining slightly since that time. The life expectancy for the U.S. for all races was 78.9 years. Based on race, life expectancies in 2014 were as follows:

    Native Americans: 75.06 years
    African Americans: 75.54 years
    White Americans: 79.12 years
    Hispanic Americans: 82.89 years
    Asian Americans: 86.67 years

     
    Do you need my 3rd graders to instruct you on which direction “<“ goes between 82.89 and 86.67?

    I also looked at the state-by-state data a couple of years ago. Asians outlive Hispanics in all 50 states. The longest living females in America are Asian women in Bergen County, NJ. The longest living males are Asian men in Fairfax County, VA.
  45. @Twinkie

    Try finding me a man without a Y chromosome, you’ll soon realize how Y-DNA matters. Autosomal means nothing, recombines with other shit too much and can’t tell us anything about population or familial history.
     
    This is like saying "Find a man without a paternal great grandfather. The other great grandfathers and great grandmothers mean nothing."

    That’s why the Out of Africa theory of modern human origins was built on mtDNA and Y-DNA.
     
    I can't make the words any simpler. Look up in the dictionary "lineage" and "composition." Your total genetic composition is what determines who you are biologically. It also determines your biological race. A lineage tells you a line of descent - father-to-son to father-to-son in the case of patrilineality and mother-to-daughter to mother-to-daughter in the case of matrilineality.

    What a buffoon. My point, since you didn’t get it, was that if you don’t have a Y-chromosome, you aren’t male. The Y-chromosome is behind much of the differences between males and females, just like women having an exrra X chromosome is a large part of what makes them female. In spife the fact that men are, *autosomally*, identical to women. Sex chromosomes are the “spark” that make us what we are, and different haplogroups are different “models” of Y-chromosomes, with wildy differing clinical implications.

    Your statement “[the] total genetic composition is what determines who you are biologically. ” is utterly and laughably wrong. It’s actually tiny areas of your genetic composition that makes you who you are, biologically. There is also no autosomal genetic basis for “race” if you haven’t been updated on the consensus of geneticists.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    Sex determination and racial (ancestry) composition are actuated and measured/observed by different mechanisms. To put simply, what makes you a man doesn’t make you white.

    One of us is an obstinate moron, for sure, and other readers/commenters can deduce for themselves which.
  46. @Sam Coulton
    You and AP are clueless; I already showed you the phenotypical and genotypical implications of haplogroups and you're still coping about this "90% European autosomally" crap. Autosomal K-admixture percentages mean nothing. And FYI Hispanics *do* live longer than Asians in America.

    I am still coping with the fact that according to your logic my relatives from Chicago must be mostly Mexican and Black because their city is only 33% white. I had no idea I had such a multiracial family!

    Meanwhile:

    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0029687

    Furthermore, 30–40% of the paternal lineages in African descent populations in the Americas are of European ancestry.

    That’s a lot of blacks who aren’t really blacks, according to you.

    This African-American blogger found out he had European maternal origins:

    Amazing.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    I am still coping
     
    Arguing with people who make up their own facts is an exercise in futility. Let us not waste any more of our time on this character.
    , @Sam Coulton
    Were you dropped on your head as a baby? That study took a sample of multiple random Cuban individuals by province and determined that the distribution of haplogroups was about 80/20 nonwhite paternally and maternally. With such a distribution, it is guaranteed that everyone is descended from people who were racially mixed. Therefore, "white Cubans" (who were actually obviously triracial) do not explain Flordia's Hispanic IQ.

    Using Chicago is an obvious shitty example because it's the result of recent black migration and white flight. If will be a good example in 40 years when you and your relatives are dead, and America's Generation X is also dead. Remember, the current genetic structure of Cuba was formed 15 generations ago.

    Also just LOL @ slapping yourself in the face posting a picture of that yellow dude dressed up like Agent 47, who looks nothing like a black African from Africa.
  47. @Sam Coulton
    You and AP are clueless; I already showed you the phenotypical and genotypical implications of haplogroups and you're still coping about this "90% European autosomally" crap. Autosomal K-admixture percentages mean nothing. And FYI Hispanics *do* live longer than Asians in America.

    And FYI Hispanics *do* live longer than Asians in America.

    I already addressed this above: https://www.unz.com/anepigone/average-hispanic-iq-by-state-2019/#comment-3574838

    https://www.thebalance.com/the-racial-life-expectancy-gap-in-the-u-s-4588898

    Life expectancies based on race are from the Center for Disease Control (CDC) data which is available up until 2014. It happens that 2014 is the year in which the highest life expectancy occurred and it has been declining slightly since that time. The life expectancy for the U.S. for all races was 78.9 years. Based on race, life expectancies in 2014 were as follows:

    Native Americans: 75.06 years
    African Americans: 75.54 years
    White Americans: 79.12 years
    Hispanic Americans: 82.89 years
    Asian Americans: 86.67 years

    Do you need my 3rd graders to instruct you on which direction “<“ goes between 82.89 and 86.67?

    I also looked at the state-by-state data a couple of years ago. Asians outlive Hispanics in all 50 states. The longest living females in America are Asian women in Bergen County, NJ. The longest living males are Asian men in Fairfax County, VA.

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton
    You didn't address anything! You posted the data from 2014 (that's one year, if you didn't know). Prior to the 2000s Hispanics had a higher life expectancy than Asians, primarily due to the changing ethnic composition of Hispanics in the USA, as well as the increasing number of Asian Americans who are female (remember, Hispanic Americans are disproportionately *male*, now). You need to take your 3rd graders to CPS immediately and commit yourself to the nearest psychiatric institution.
  48. @Sam Coulton
    What a buffoon. My point, since you didn't get it, was that if you don't have a Y-chromosome, you aren't male. The Y-chromosome is behind much of the differences between males and females, just like women having an exrra X chromosome is a large part of what makes them female. In spife the fact that men are, *autosomally*, identical to women. Sex chromosomes are the "spark" that make us what we are, and different haplogroups are different "models" of Y-chromosomes, with wildy differing clinical implications.

    Your statement "[the] total genetic composition is what determines who you are biologically. " is utterly and laughably wrong. It's actually tiny areas of your genetic composition that makes you who you are, biologically. There is also no autosomal genetic basis for "race" if you haven't been updated on the consensus of geneticists.

    Sex determination and racial (ancestry) composition are actuated and measured/observed by different mechanisms. To put simply, what makes you a man doesn’t make you white.

    One of us is an obstinate moron, for sure, and other readers/commenters can deduce for themselves which.

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton

    Sex determination and racial (ancestry) composition are actuated and measured/observed by different mechanisms.
     
    Look dude, you have no idea what you're talking about. There is no autosomal genetic basis for race. Multiple scientists and geneticists have tried (and apparently failed) to teach this to the public. There is more autosomal genetic similarity between two individuals of different "races" than there is between two racial populations. Autosomal admixture analysis like K are also useless for determining actual ancestry, which is not the same thing as race. Things like the Y and (and to a lesser extent, X chromosome) as well as mtDNA are, however, quite useful.
  49. @AP
    I am still coping with the fact that according to your logic my relatives from Chicago must be mostly Mexican and Black because their city is only 33% white. I had no idea I had such a multiracial family!

    Meanwhile:

    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0029687

    Furthermore, 30–40% of the paternal lineages in African descent populations in the Americas are of European ancestry.

    That's a lot of blacks who aren't really blacks, according to you.

    This African-American blogger found out he had European maternal origins:

    https://miro.medium.com/fit/c/128/128/1*kFkKTCWonc8R5MXrcFl17g.jpeg

    Amazing.

    I am still coping

    Arguing with people who make up their own facts is an exercise in futility. Let us not waste any more of our time on this character.

  50. @AP
    I am still coping with the fact that according to your logic my relatives from Chicago must be mostly Mexican and Black because their city is only 33% white. I had no idea I had such a multiracial family!

    Meanwhile:

    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0029687

    Furthermore, 30–40% of the paternal lineages in African descent populations in the Americas are of European ancestry.

    That's a lot of blacks who aren't really blacks, according to you.

    This African-American blogger found out he had European maternal origins:

    https://miro.medium.com/fit/c/128/128/1*kFkKTCWonc8R5MXrcFl17g.jpeg

    Amazing.

    Were you dropped on your head as a baby? That study took a sample of multiple random Cuban individuals by province and determined that the distribution of haplogroups was about 80/20 nonwhite paternally and maternally. With such a distribution, it is guaranteed that everyone is descended from people who were racially mixed. Therefore, “white Cubans” (who were actually obviously triracial) do not explain Flordia’s Hispanic IQ.

    Using Chicago is an obvious shitty example because it’s the result of recent black migration and white flight. If will be a good example in 40 years when you and your relatives are dead, and America’s Generation X is also dead. Remember, the current genetic structure of Cuba was formed 15 generations ago.

    Also just LOL @ slapping yourself in the face posting a picture of that yellow dude dressed up like Agent 47, who looks nothing like a black African from Africa.

    • Replies: @AP

    Were you dropped on your head as a baby? That study took a sample of multiple random Cuban individuals by province and determined that the distribution of haplogroups was about 80/20 nonwhite paternally and maternally. With such a distribution, it is guaranteed that everyone is descended from people who were racially mixed.
     
    Really? South Carolina is about 30% black. A survey of random individuals in South Carolina would find a distribution of about 30/70 maternal African/European haplogroups.

    I figured most white people in SC have no or trace African ancestry but thanks to your brilliance I now know that so-called white people from SC may be 15% black.


    Using Chicago is an obvious shitty example because it’s the result of recent black migration and white flight.
     
    There was mass Spanish immigration to Cuba in the early 1900s. The 1950s to early 1960s, when white Cubans left for Miami, were about as close to those times than the current age is to the 1930s-1960s when black migrated into Chicago and whites were leaving the city.

    If will be a good example in 40 years when you and your relatives are dead
     
    So in your brilliance you predict that in the next 40 years the white people of Chicago will all marry blacks and/or Mexicans.

    Here is Marco Rubio, with a maternal Native haplogroup but 93% European:

    https://cdn.britannica.com/98/150398-050-D0616F76/Marco-Rubio-2011.jpg

    Here is Mexican Mestizo comedian George Lopez with a maternal Native haplogroup but who according to a DNA test is 55% European:

    https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/[email protected]@._V1_UY1200_CR121,0,630,1200_AL_.jpg

    Here is Bolivian Indian Evo Morales, like Marco Rubio with a maternal Native haplogroup but only 0% -5% or so European:

    http://www.univers-l.com/images/news_evo_morales.jpg

    I thought they were very different but your brilliant ideas have taught me that they are functionally the same due to all having a Native maternal haplogroup.

    Does it hurt, to be as smart as you are?

  51. @Twinkie

    And FYI Hispanics *do* live longer than Asians in America.
     
    I already addressed this above: https://www.unz.com/anepigone/average-hispanic-iq-by-state-2019/#comment-3574838

    https://www.thebalance.com/the-racial-life-expectancy-gap-in-the-u-s-4588898

    Life expectancies based on race are from the Center for Disease Control (CDC) data which is available up until 2014. It happens that 2014 is the year in which the highest life expectancy occurred and it has been declining slightly since that time. The life expectancy for the U.S. for all races was 78.9 years. Based on race, life expectancies in 2014 were as follows:

    Native Americans: 75.06 years
    African Americans: 75.54 years
    White Americans: 79.12 years
    Hispanic Americans: 82.89 years
    Asian Americans: 86.67 years

     
    Do you need my 3rd graders to instruct you on which direction “<“ goes between 82.89 and 86.67?

    I also looked at the state-by-state data a couple of years ago. Asians outlive Hispanics in all 50 states. The longest living females in America are Asian women in Bergen County, NJ. The longest living males are Asian men in Fairfax County, VA.

    You didn’t address anything! You posted the data from 2014 (that’s one year, if you didn’t know). Prior to the 2000s Hispanics had a higher life expectancy than Asians, primarily due to the changing ethnic composition of Hispanics in the USA, as well as the increasing number of Asian Americans who are female (remember, Hispanic Americans are disproportionately *male*, now). You need to take your 3rd graders to CPS immediately and commit yourself to the nearest psychiatric institution.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Prior to the 2000s Hispanics had a higher life expectancy than Asians
     
    Show me the data.

    as well as the increasing number of Asian Americans who are female (remember, Hispanic Americans are disproportionately *male*, now)
     
    Life expectancy Asian American Female 88.89 years
    Life expectancy Hispanic American Female 85.44 years

    Life expectancy Asian American Male 84.13 years
    Life expectancy Hispanic American Male 80.16 years

    Source: MEASURES OF AMERICA: 2013-2014 (compiled based on CDC data).

    *These figures underestimate Asian life expectancy as they include Pacific Islanders with substantially higher mortality.
  52. @Twinkie
    Sex determination and racial (ancestry) composition are actuated and measured/observed by different mechanisms. To put simply, what makes you a man doesn’t make you white.

    One of us is an obstinate moron, for sure, and other readers/commenters can deduce for themselves which.

    Sex determination and racial (ancestry) composition are actuated and measured/observed by different mechanisms.

    Look dude, you have no idea what you’re talking about. There is no autosomal genetic basis for race. Multiple scientists and geneticists have tried (and apparently failed) to teach this to the public. There is more autosomal genetic similarity between two individuals of different “races” than there is between two racial populations. Autosomal admixture analysis like K are also useless for determining actual ancestry, which is not the same thing as race. Things like the Y and (and to a lesser extent, X chromosome) as well as mtDNA are, however, quite useful.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    Autosomal DNA testing is utilized for finding family members within several generations, something you cannot do fully with mtDNA and Y-DNA testing (on the other hand, the latter offer longer generational information, albeit shallowly and incompletely, due to the patrilineal and matrilineal lineage limitations).

    Look dude, you have no idea what you’re talking about.
     
    I can’t tell if you are deluded or are a troll, but please stop making up things. I’m going to heed my own advice to AP now. Bye bye.
  53. @Sam Coulton
    You didn't address anything! You posted the data from 2014 (that's one year, if you didn't know). Prior to the 2000s Hispanics had a higher life expectancy than Asians, primarily due to the changing ethnic composition of Hispanics in the USA, as well as the increasing number of Asian Americans who are female (remember, Hispanic Americans are disproportionately *male*, now). You need to take your 3rd graders to CPS immediately and commit yourself to the nearest psychiatric institution.

    Prior to the 2000s Hispanics had a higher life expectancy than Asians

    Show me the data.

    as well as the increasing number of Asian Americans who are female (remember, Hispanic Americans are disproportionately *male*, now)

    Life expectancy Asian American Female 88.89 years
    Life expectancy Hispanic American Female 85.44 years

    Life expectancy Asian American Male 84.13 years
    Life expectancy Hispanic American Male 80.16 years

    Source: MEASURES OF AMERICA: 2013-2014 (compiled based on CDC data).

    *These figures underestimate Asian life expectancy as they include Pacific Islanders with substantially higher mortality.

  54. @Sam Coulton

    Sex determination and racial (ancestry) composition are actuated and measured/observed by different mechanisms.
     
    Look dude, you have no idea what you're talking about. There is no autosomal genetic basis for race. Multiple scientists and geneticists have tried (and apparently failed) to teach this to the public. There is more autosomal genetic similarity between two individuals of different "races" than there is between two racial populations. Autosomal admixture analysis like K are also useless for determining actual ancestry, which is not the same thing as race. Things like the Y and (and to a lesser extent, X chromosome) as well as mtDNA are, however, quite useful.

    Autosomal DNA testing is utilized for finding family members within several generations, something you cannot do fully with mtDNA and Y-DNA testing (on the other hand, the latter offer longer generational information, albeit shallowly and incompletely, due to the patrilineal and matrilineal lineage limitations).

    Look dude, you have no idea what you’re talking about.

    I can’t tell if you are deluded or are a troll, but please stop making up things. I’m going to heed my own advice to AP now. Bye bye.

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton

    Autosomal DNA testing is utilized for finding family members within several generations, something you cannot do fully with mtDNA and Y-DNA testing (on the other hand, the latter offer longer generational information, albeit shallowly and incompletely, due to the patrilineal and matrilineal lineage limitations
     
    Absurd. Y-DNA and mtDNA are far superior for determining personal ancestry, and even more so for ethnic ancestry, because they don't get squashed and mish-mashed like autosomal does. More importantly, our autosomal ancestry is useless for determining our race, because even if you are 90% "European" autosomally, you still share less of that with a fellow European than you do with a black African. Your Y-DNA and mtDNA tells you what you really are, and for Cubans, that means MIXED.

    https://www.familysearch.org/blog/en/fishing-tips-autosomal-dna-test-results-genealogy-research/


    While genetic testing is fairly good at identifying broad ethnic groups (such as African, European, or Asian), it does not differentiate as easily between populations that are more closely related due to proximity or migration (for example, the British Isles and western Europe).

    Autosomal DNA inheritance is random and eventually, around the sixth generation, you will have some ancestors in your family history from whom you inherit none of your autosomal DNA.

    Ethnic admixture looks at the origin of segments of DNA that are inherited randomly, so it may not entirely represent your expected admixture based on your known genealogy.

    Siblings and family members inherit different portions of DNA from their common ancestors, so don’t be alarmed by extremely different admixture profiles.
     

    I thought this forum was more informed about genetics, or did all the blabbering about "race denial" from the charlatans on the alt-Right actually disabuse you of the the scientific consensus on the autosomal invalidity of race?
  55. @Twinkie
    Autosomal DNA testing is utilized for finding family members within several generations, something you cannot do fully with mtDNA and Y-DNA testing (on the other hand, the latter offer longer generational information, albeit shallowly and incompletely, due to the patrilineal and matrilineal lineage limitations).

    Look dude, you have no idea what you’re talking about.
     
    I can’t tell if you are deluded or are a troll, but please stop making up things. I’m going to heed my own advice to AP now. Bye bye.

    Autosomal DNA testing is utilized for finding family members within several generations, something you cannot do fully with mtDNA and Y-DNA testing (on the other hand, the latter offer longer generational information, albeit shallowly and incompletely, due to the patrilineal and matrilineal lineage limitations

    Absurd. Y-DNA and mtDNA are far superior for determining personal ancestry, and even more so for ethnic ancestry, because they don’t get squashed and mish-mashed like autosomal does. More importantly, our autosomal ancestry is useless for determining our race, because even if you are 90% “European” autosomally, you still share less of that with a fellow European than you do with a black African. Your Y-DNA and mtDNA tells you what you really are, and for Cubans, that means MIXED.

    https://www.familysearch.org/blog/en/fishing-tips-autosomal-dna-test-results-genealogy-research/

    While genetic testing is fairly good at identifying broad ethnic groups (such as African, European, or Asian), it does not differentiate as easily between populations that are more closely related due to proximity or migration (for example, the British Isles and western Europe).

    Autosomal DNA inheritance is random and eventually, around the sixth generation, you will have some ancestors in your family history from whom you inherit none of your autosomal DNA.

    Ethnic admixture looks at the origin of segments of DNA that are inherited randomly, so it may not entirely represent your expected admixture based on your known genealogy.

    Siblings and family members inherit different portions of DNA from their common ancestors, so don’t be alarmed by extremely different admixture profiles.

    I thought this forum was more informed about genetics, or did all the blabbering about “race denial” from the charlatans on the alt-Right actually disabuse you of the the scientific consensus on the autosomal invalidity of race?

    • Troll: Mr. Rational, Twinkie
  56. @Sam Coulton
    Were you dropped on your head as a baby? That study took a sample of multiple random Cuban individuals by province and determined that the distribution of haplogroups was about 80/20 nonwhite paternally and maternally. With such a distribution, it is guaranteed that everyone is descended from people who were racially mixed. Therefore, "white Cubans" (who were actually obviously triracial) do not explain Flordia's Hispanic IQ.

    Using Chicago is an obvious shitty example because it's the result of recent black migration and white flight. If will be a good example in 40 years when you and your relatives are dead, and America's Generation X is also dead. Remember, the current genetic structure of Cuba was formed 15 generations ago.

    Also just LOL @ slapping yourself in the face posting a picture of that yellow dude dressed up like Agent 47, who looks nothing like a black African from Africa.

    Were you dropped on your head as a baby? That study took a sample of multiple random Cuban individuals by province and determined that the distribution of haplogroups was about 80/20 nonwhite paternally and maternally. With such a distribution, it is guaranteed that everyone is descended from people who were racially mixed.

    Really? South Carolina is about 30% black. A survey of random individuals in South Carolina would find a distribution of about 30/70 maternal African/European haplogroups.

    I figured most white people in SC have no or trace African ancestry but thanks to your brilliance I now know that so-called white people from SC may be 15% black.

    Using Chicago is an obvious shitty example because it’s the result of recent black migration and white flight.

    There was mass Spanish immigration to Cuba in the early 1900s. The 1950s to early 1960s, when white Cubans left for Miami, were about as close to those times than the current age is to the 1930s-1960s when black migrated into Chicago and whites were leaving the city.

    If will be a good example in 40 years when you and your relatives are dead

    So in your brilliance you predict that in the next 40 years the white people of Chicago will all marry blacks and/or Mexicans.

    Here is Marco Rubio, with a maternal Native haplogroup but 93% European:

    Here is Mexican Mestizo comedian George Lopez with a maternal Native haplogroup but who according to a DNA test is 55% European:

    Here is Bolivian Indian Evo Morales, like Marco Rubio with a maternal Native haplogroup but only 0% -5% or so European:

    I thought they were very different but your brilliant ideas have taught me that they are functionally the same due to all having a Native maternal haplogroup.

    Does it hurt, to be as smart as you are?

  57. Really? South Carolina is about 30% black. A survey of random individuals in South Carolina would find a distribution of about 30/70 maternal African/European haplogroups.

    South Carolina has no genetic populatuon structure; in the past 300 years it went from a Native American hunting ground, to a white colony, to a white/black slave state with a lot of mixed blacks, to a mostly white state, then to a white/half Asian/Latino/Black state with aome mixing going on again.

    These different groups breed mostly in isolation, are constantly coming and going, and don’t form a singular population like Cuba does. You are comparing a multiracial world empire to a mixed-race state, probably because you have been injecting rat glue to ease the pain of your chronic myopathy.

    I figured most white people in SC have no or trace African ancestry

    That is highly improbable given the white male/female sex ratio in the early South, the reproductive success of male melungeons with white women in the early South, its strange culture of ball games and idolation of black male athleticism, as well as the physical appearance of modern Southerners.

    There was mass Spanish immigration to Cuba in the early 1900s.

    No there was not, there was a small number of mostly male migrants to Cuba in the early 1900s.

    So in your brilliance you predict that in the next 40 years the white people of Chicago will all marry blacks and/or Mexicans.

    The vast majority of white people in Chicago are not of reproductive age, defined by myself as under age 40, among whom the rate of interracial relationships ranges from 45-65%. Check the census data, the fastest growing racial group in America is in fact “2 or more races”.

    Here is Marco Rubio, with a maternal Native haplogroup but 93% European:

    Who looks about the same as George Lopez with a lighter skin tone and less facial fat.

    Here is Bolivian Indian Evo Morales

    Who in all probability, has a Native American paternal haplogroup.

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