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In the 2018 iteration of the survey, the GSS asked a new question about what kind of company people would prefer to work for. Participants were given three possible responses to choose from–1) “a company in which the government owns the stock and appoints the management to run the company’s operations”, 2) “a company whose stock is owned by the employees who appoint the management to run the company’s operations”, or 3) “a company whose stock is owned by outside investors who appoint the management to run the company’s operations”. The following graph shows the percentages of respondents, by selected demographic characteristics, who preferred 1), the ‘socialist’ (or arguably even communist) option:

Forget about handing out pocket Constitutions to the hundreds of thousands of migrants crossing into the US from the southern border each month–they need pocket Wealth of Nations instead!

GSS variables used: COMPANY(1), RACECEN1(1)(2)(4-10), HISPANIC(1)(2-50), AGE, SEX, PARTYID(0-1)(2-4,7)(5-6), BORN

 
• Category: Economics, Race/Ethnicity • Tags: Economics, GSS, Socialism 
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  1. Google, Twitter, and Facebook should be nationalized.

  2. Age stats are rather interesting though. I would have expected them to go monotonically down with greater age.

  3. Mitleser says:

    1) “a company in which the government owns the stock and appoints the management to run the company’s operations”

    The following graph shows the percentages of respondents, by selected demographic characteristics, who preferred 1), the ‘socialist’ (or arguably even communist) option:

    What is communist about that?

    It is the state capitalist option.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  4. anon[825] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Not a surprise, Older people remember the Roosevelt’s New Deal as a good thing.

  5. @Anatoly Karlin

    The elderly do like the government a bit, they just don’t want its hands on their Medicare lol.

    Would love to see answers to 2) and 3). There is probably more agreement in trying to limit the power of shareholders and rentseekers, either through class collab or class struggle, while carrying ethnonationalist or internationalist hues. The former, more traditionalist positions tend to be winning out in the principles right now, but the latter more modern ones do have a small point: don’t let local traditional elites become too powerful through class collaboration, but rather have them embrace their natural responsibility while also leading society in the idealized corporate nation-state fashion, which then as a respected ideal worldwide should prevent conflict. Else people will clamor for international brotherhood and mass struggle against natural institutions again. I know, utopian, but less so than the Manifesto or the Fountainhead…

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  6. @Anatoly Karlin

    They’re within a couple of percentage points, Mr. Karlin. It’s just within the noise of data like polling. The 18-29 bar is something real, I’m sure.

  7. It’s so disheartening to see the young people be so stupid act so stupidly. I really do mean “act” though, as all they know is the BS from the Lyin’ Press, and they’ve never run into free market (actual) capitalism except possibly at the flea markets and yard sales.

    They have no memory of the Cold War period with 1/2 of the world being under Communist tyranny. It’s just about that time of the century when Commies start crawling out of the woodwork again.

    The sun shines,
    and people forget …

  8. 216 says:

    Woke Capital will sell the rope with which it will be hung

    Good riddance, the corporations have thrown away ordinary conservatives as if they were a used condom.

  9. Jay Fink says:

    I know a Hispanic lady who votes Democrat because she says they are nice while Republicans are “so mean” because they want to cut social programs. I think that’s typical for Hispanics. When they bother to vote (they have a notorious low voter turnout) they are motivated by economic liberalism more than anything. SWPL issues like climate change do not interest them and they aren’t SJWs at heart. They are one of the more anti-abortion groups but their passion for fiscal liberalism is stronger than their pro-life beliefs. I only wish Republicans cut social programs as much as many imagine they do. They tend to cut taxes while not making a dent in the welfare state.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    , @Feryl
  10. @Jay Fink

    That’s exactly what one would expect out people from anywhere in Latin America, Jay. They are 3rd-world, meaning (my definition, I guess) they have no middle-class. The 98% peon class always votes for more gimmes from the big government run and controlled by the 2% upper class, who try to control the peons by giving them bones but still have to have broken-glass-topped walls around their places and try to prevent one of those revolutions that comes around every couple of decades.

    The Reason magazine Libertards may be really miffed when they ever realize this and realize that, of 1.5 illegal Hispanics that may come here THIS YEAR, they’ve only got 4 new subscriptions to the magazine from all of them.

  11. Now do we see why the Founders and long-term inhabitants of the United States wanted to reserve voting rights for mainly those people in that really short 3rd bar, that white one .. you can barely see it?

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  12. Dutch Boy says:

    Make mine 2); BTW, what were the results for option 2?

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  13. they also don’t think the second amendment is such a good idea.

    america 2.0 is gonna be great.

  14. Rodolfo says:

    I dont see the graph.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  15. 216 says:

    o/t

    Euro elections drive-by

    This is in widespread denial of polling evidence that shows the EU has gained in popularity from its recession-era pit.

    Most Americans look clueless commenting on European politics.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    , @Feryl
  16. @Mitleser

    In its most benevolent manifestation it’d be something like how GM was run several years ago or maybe the Federal Reserve but it could also be strict governmental control of everything.

  17. @Disordered (with a bad memory)

    Option #2 is the most popular by far.

    Simply, 1) is socialist/communist/’state capitalist’, 2) is a private company, and 3) is a public company.

    • Replies: @216
    , @Oblivionrecurs
  18. @Dutch Boy

    72%, by far the most popular option. It’s the private company–as opposed to the publicly traded option, 3)–choice.

    • Replies: @Dutch Boy
  19. 216 says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    Isn’t 2 that of an “employee-owned company” ?

    Koch Industries is a “private company” as they aren’t on the stock market.

    IIRC the largest employee owned company is the supermarket Publix, common in the Southeast.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  20. Feryl says:
    @Jay Fink

    I only wish Republicans cut social programs as much as many imagine they do. They tend to cut taxes while not making a dent in the welfare state.

    Well, the thing is that when the GOP became dominant in the 80’s and 90’s*, all’s they’ve generally done since is piss and moan that “nothing” works right WRT goverment. Gee, I wonder why? Like PJ O’Rourke use to joke about, the GOP complains that the government doesn’t work, so they get elected in order to make sure it doesn’t work. The GOP has typically been enthusiastic about tax cuts for the rich and major boosts to the MIC over the last 40 years, and yet they don’t acknowledge how reckless it is to do this in the absence of major cuts to most kinds of spending.

    *Union busting, de-regulation, mass incarceration, etc. have all been a part of mainstream politics since the mid-80’s. The elites in both parties, by the early 90’s, were in unanimous agreement that the New Deal era was over (Mondale and Dukakis were New Dealers, Clinton was a neo-liberal).

    • Agree: byrresheim
  21. #2) is the socialist option; “the workers control the means of production.”

    • Replies: @Dutch Boy
  22. Feryl says:
    @216

    We won’t pull the plug on the terminally ill neo-liberal economy (in which the poor and middle class of the developed Western world struggle to afford housing and education, struggle to gain secure full-time jobs, can’t marry and form stable families, etc.). Eventually we will hit by blow-back that’s been accumulating since the early 80’s, because we’ve refused to reform the system no matter how times neo-liberalism has burnt us. It’s like how in dryer forests we have workers who are supposed to clear out dead and dry wood and and brush, in order to get rid of fuel for possible fires. In our financial system, we’ve allowed tons of flammable crap to pile up*, and it’s only a matter of time before the whole thing is set ablaze and burns everything and everyone to the ground.

    “Centrists” can fool themselves that the status quo is acceptable only insofar as the whole wretched post-1980 economic system can be sustained.

    * The S&L scandal in ’87, the Long Term Capital Management fiasco in the late 90’s, the sub-prime mortgage crisis of the late 2000’s, etc., are all reminders that in the absence of regulation and an economy based on producing things of value (not raising GDP via absurdly expensive medical care, landlords gouging people, yuppies over-spending on luxury cars and 2nd homes, etc.), the capital class will bleed us and keep on bleeding us more, ’til we’re dying of blood loss. Unbridled greed is fatal, but the short-term gains are so immense as to dazzle those who ought to know better.

  23. Feryl says:
    @216

    I don’t think it’s off-base to suggest that twenty-something people are the most comfortable* with the economic status quo, simply because they haven’t had time yet to become disillusioned, or really think things thru WRT stuff like immigration. In both Britain and America, Millennials report being much less threatened by immigration relative to older generations. That sort of naive empathy toward immigrants will diminish as Millennials age, and realize that the resource pie is only so big, and we shouldn’t let the whole globe enter our countries and gobble everything up**. Also, Millennials are much more non-white than older generations, and they feel pressure to be “sensitive” to immigrants and their kids, whereas older generations often lived, worked, studied etc. in all white areas where you could freely speak your mind.

    *The elderly are comfortable because they had their entire working lives to reap the benefits of the New Deal and early neo-liberal era. Middle aged people are much less well-off, plus they’ve had time to reflect on how busted the system is. Young people haven’t.

    **Trump’s rhetoric on immigration played well with brash Boomers and X-ers, but he came off as the sort of loud-mouthed and bigoted Boomer uncle that Millennials are quite familiar with. It’s become much more common, in the Trump era, for young people and liberals to reflexively side with immigrants as a way to “guard” them from meanies like Trump. Trump had a golden opportunity to frame immigration as a worker’s rights issue, by criticizing greedy employers and lobbyists, yet true to the neo-liberal era, he complained about one of the victims (desperate immigrants) instead of the aggressors. It’s just like how mainstream thought since 1980 is that countries like America deserved to have their factories shuttered because of entitled and unionized workers.

    • Replies: @byrresheim
    , @216
  24. 216 says:
    @Feryl

    I don’t think it’s off-base to suggest that twenty-something people are the most comfortable* with the economic status quo, simply because they haven’t had time yet to become disillusioned, or really think things thru WRT stuff like immigration.

    The average young (female) person has been quite gaslit on the environment issue. The world is apparently 10 years away from an irreversable catastrophe.

    For all of this fear-mongering, environmentalist terrorism has virtually disappeared. It’s quite naive for any ideology to think that it can simply ‘educate’ people and win elections. So this ‘green surge’ is not entirely what it claims to be. It also points out that the left is not averse to the “politics of fear” that its media/academic acolytes tone-police when we do it.

    Trump had a golden opportunity to frame immigration as a worker’s rights issue, by criticizing greedy employers and lobbyists

    I’ve praised Ivanka for using the word “trafficking”, which her father doesn’t use as much. The Boomercon approach is all about fear of taxes being wasted, which is ignored when it comes to Pentagon spending.

    The mainstream conservative movement also effectively throttled any organizing by younger Trump supporters, and bufoons like Charlie Kirk and Candace Owens were promoted. Otoh, a movement that grew out of antisocial video gamers has limited appeal in meatspace. Nick Fuentes would probably have washed out at MEPS, its hard to think of any known leader in the dissident movements that has the background of a commissioned officer.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    , @Feryl
  25. SafeNow says:

    4) would win: Any company, no matter who owns it, that pays for full medical insurance insurance. No, wait, 5) would win: Any company, no matter who owns it, that gives me a lifetime position as long as I do my job.

    In other words, my father’s 4+5 company. The 1-2-3 breakdown is important, as 4-5 are not coming back. But 4-5 would have overwhelmed 1-2-3.

  26. Feryl says:
    @216

    For all of this fear-mongering, environmentalist terrorism has virtually disappeared. It’s quite naive for any ideology to think that it can simply ‘educate’ people and win elections. So this ‘green surge’ is not entirely what it claims to be. It also points out that the left is not averse to the “politics of fear” that its media/academic acolytes tone-police when we do it.

    Agnostic has an interesting theory that “panics” have a shelf-life of about 5 years, before people get “woke” and move on with their life. For violent video games, it was the mid-late 90’s; the issue was largely dead in the 2000’s. For drugs, it was the mid-late 80’s; people eased up on the anti-drug terrorism in the 90’s. Environmentalism peaked in the early 90’s, but was essentially forgotten by 2000.

    I’ve praised Ivanka for using the word “trafficking”, which her father doesn’t use as much. The Boomercon approach is all about fear of taxes being wasted, which is ignored when it comes to Pentagon spending.

    Appealing to the narcissism of the two neo-liberal, stingy, me-first generations (Silents and Boomers) by claiming that “their” money is constantly being “confiscated” and wasted has been a successful electoral strategy since the 80’s; that being said, X-er and Millennials have neither had nor ever wanted to have the money that Silents and Boomers piled up (as our country literally decayed). The pleasure centers of the two richest generations in human history always light up, feel a hit of dopamine, when you tell them that they should have even more money. As I’ve said before, money money money is just not going to be the culture of the future because younger generations don’t idolize money and the options it opens up for the “winners”. It’s time to start enforcing investment into society by those who have the resources to do so. And part of that investment is giving people single payer healthcare, re-building the factories, putting people to work on the rail lines and roads, etc.). If that means less money for upper income people to invest in cabins, 2nd homes, luxury cars and jewelry etc., than tough shit.

  27. Feryl says:
    @216

    The mainstream conservative movement also effectively throttled any organizing by younger Trump supporters, and bufoons like Charlie Kirk and Candace Owens were promoted. Otoh, a movement that grew out of antisocial video gamers has limited appeal in meatspace. Nick Fuentes would probably have washed out at MEPS, its hard to think of any known leader in the dissident movements that has the background of a commissioned officer.

    The Alt-Right actually closely aligns with the basic cultural/economic out-look of the West’s traditional working class. It’s just that the Alt-Right fooled itself into thinking that goofy memes and trolling somehow made it “special”, when in reality nearly the entire world, by 1940, gave the proles what they wanted in terms of cultural conservatism and economic regulation. Of course, this also included Nazism, and the Alt-Right was stupid enough to invoke Nazi imagery and beliefs, when they should’ve been emphasizing the generally wholesome nature of many nations in the 1930’s-1960’s.

    Milo has said that he’s “leaving” politics because the Right doesn’t like entertainers, and won’t defend the ones who might be sympathetic to the Right. Since the Young Republican days, the GOP has been notoriously uptight and prissy, really, quite nerdy. Focusing on obscure economic issues, and insisting on respect for religion and patriotism (even if the church and one’s country have failed). The problem for the GOP is that making successful gains on even the most wholesome/common sense issues would require a frontal assault on the very things they hold dear (capitalism, the church, the military). If we can’t regulate these institutions more effectively, can’t admit that they’ve rotted from within via the negligence of people who were supposed to know better (e.g., seasoned and “stable” leaders, not the rabble rousing bums who Republicans always claim are the problem). The Progressive and New Deal era was about permitting aggressive force among reformers, to see to it that our institutions (be they ostensibly liberal or conservative) be run in the best communal interest and free of corrupting toxins created by lazy, greedy, and perverted people). The modern GOP is too rigidly committed to the wrong sort of leaders, the ones given to platitudes, self-delusion, and complacency, to be of much use.

    • Replies: @216
  28. 216 says:
    @Feryl

    The Alt-Right actually closely aligns with the basic cultural/economic out-look of the West’s traditional working class.

    Due to economic shifts and population aging, that class no longer has the potency it once did.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_European_Parliament_election_in_France#Electorate

    The FN in this exit poll got 40% among blue collar workers, but they are low turnout. Among high-turnout Boomer retirees they did much worse.

    Men apparently turned out at higher rates than women, I’d like to see further confirmation of this claim.

    Managerial class Millennial women are the backbone of Green Party support. The dissident movements have never been able to synergize the Great Replacement with Global Warming.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  29. Twinkie says:

    The most notable differences are:

    Male vs. Female
    White vs. black, Hispanic, Asian
    Native vs. foreign-born
    Age 18-29 vs. older

    Of those, the only significant category over which the American voter has (legal) control is “native vs. foreign-born.” Yet another reason for immigration restriction (and I say that as a foreign-born).

    For much of my adult life, I cared about economic conservatism as a significant factor in my political orientation. Now I am of the view that the triad of immigration restriction, gun rights, and religious freedom (which clashes with homosexual/trans agenda) is what matter the most and other issues are quite ancillary.

  30. Bill H says: • Website

    A “nation of socialists” is coming? From where? Foreign born is socialist at 26%. Hispanic, most of whom are probably foreign born, are a whopping 21%. How many of these are voting citizens?

    Overall is something like 10-12% at a guess. How does that constitute an “oncoming nation of socialists?” Socialism is a fad, no more lasting than Buddy Holly.

  31. @Audacious Epigone

    And I doubt that even a quarter of those would identify as national socialist or national syndaclist.

  32. @216

    The former is one form of the latter, but yes, it does seem to be alluding more precisely to private companies with ESOPs. Does Koch Industries have something like that? I have no idea, but a lot of privately held companies do.

  33. @Twinkie

    I’m going Arian on your trinity and placing immigration restriction at the very top.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  34. @Bill H

    I hope it’s just hyperbole on my part.

  35. Paul says:

    We already have socialism. It is called defense spending. The money goes to military contractors — socialism for the rich.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    , @Twinkie
  36. Twinkie says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    placing immigration restriction at the very top.

    I listed it first for a reason (or a thousand good reasons). Without immigration restriction the other two will be lost most likely. But I still mentioned the other two, because even with immigration restriction, if we were to lose gun rights and religious freedom, this wouldn’t be the kind of America I want my children to live.

  37. Twinkie says:
    @Bill H

    Foreign born is socialist at 26%. Hispanic, most of whom are probably foreign born, are a whopping 21%. How many of these are voting citizens?

    A majority of Hispanics in the U.S. are American-born and are citizens.

    On the other hand, “Asians” have a similar rate of support for state-ownership and a large majority is foreign-born: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Asian_Americans#Population

    During the 2010 United States Census, there were a total of 17,320,856 Asian Americans, including Multiracial Americans identifying as part Asian. This made Asian Americans 5.6 percent of the total American population.[26] The largest ethnic groups represented in the census were Chinese (3.79 million), Filipino (3.41 million), Indian (3.18 million), Vietnamese (1.73 million), Korean (1.7 million), and Japanese (1.3 million).[8][27] Other sizable ethnic groups include Pakistani (409,000), Cambodian (276,000), Hmong (260,000), Thai (237,000), Laotian (232,000), Bangladeshi (147,000), and Burmese (100,000).[8] The total population of Asian Americans grew by 46 percent from 2000 to 2010 according to the Census Bureau, which constituted the largest increase of any major racial group during that period.[28] In 2010, there were an estimated 11,284,000 foreign born individuals who were born in Asia, of whom 57.7% had become naturalized citizens.

    Of the total Asian population in America, over 65% are foreign-born and about 27.6% of the total are unnaturalized foreign-born.

    And here is something else – the fastest growing Asian group is Indian, already the third largest Asian group in the U.S. (will be the second largest shortly if it’s not so already). And Indians are much more likely than other Asians to be crony socialists, even more than the Chinese. It used to be said that Jews earn like Episcopalians, but vote like Puerto Ricans. Well, Indians earn like Jews, but vote like blacks, so expect further political orientation changes (for the worse in my perspective) among “Asians” as that segment of Asians grows in population and influence.

    It’s time to have immigration restriction. Not just illegal aliens from Latin America, but also the large flood of legal immigrants from Asia.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Feryl
  38. @Bill H

    Yeah, and Communism was a fad in Russia in 1917, Germany in the 1920-30’s, and China in 1947. Sorry to sound like a wise guy, Bill, but you should take this seriously. As I wrote above, people forget.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Feryl
  39. Dutch Boy says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    Then sanity rules (or ought to).

  40. Dutch Boy says:
    @Elf Himself

    It is the distributist option (socialists are opposed to private property, even if it is controlled by workers).

  41. KenH says:

    It’s not surprising which groups are most likely to support socialism. Brainwashing the native population with pro-socialist propaganda while importing a new electorate (many of whom hail from socialist dictatorships) is making socialism appealing to a greater number of Americans and “Americans” every decade. Any politicians supporting it used to be considered laughingstocks and unelectable. Bernie Sanders used to poll 2-3% in the 1980’s and 90’s yet today he’s a serious contender for the Democrat nomination.

    The spirit of 1776 seems to be a white thing and is dying out along with the white population.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    , @Achmed E. Newman
  42. Feryl says:
    @Twinkie

    What did Derbyshire reference recently about “similarities” causing conflict between closely related ethnic groups? Dot Indians are going to have more friction with whites than East Asians, because, paradoxically, they are too close to whites genetically*. See also the tremendous friction between “European” Jews and their European/Anglosphere host countries.

    East Asians occupy a “happy” medium, being neither too close to or too distant from whites to cause much trouble. Mestizos aren’t really that big of a deal, either.

    I think that Africans. MEsterners, and West Asians will probably cause the most trouble, in the long run. They are either to close to whites, or too distant from whites.

    *Presumably, ethnic groups evolve to thrive in a certain type of cultural climate, and the presence of a very slightly different ethnic group leads to conflict because both groups are competing to succeed in the same psycho-cultural-social niche. WRT a “cold war” between Asians and Jews, I think it’s due in large part to Jews feeling as if they’ve “earned” dominance of many cultural centers (including the college realm) and are entitled to give their kids opportunities they don’t necessarily deserve, at the expense of qualified gentile whites and Asians who generally don’t have the same connections or wealthy background as Jews. They probably support AA for low-scoring groups (like blacks and Mestizos), but balk at being more welcoming to gentile whites/Asians, who are too close to Jews for comfort.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  43. Feryl says:
    @KenH

    Ken, neo-liberal capitalism isn’t shutting down gay bars or state lotteries, stopping transsexual mutilation, closing the borders, or defending traditional religious values. Throughout the entire world, the Leftist impulse to regulate dominated the 1930’s-1960’s, to the point that “minorities” and weirdos were forced to riot in the mid-late 60’s in a desperate attempt to intimidate normal people into changing the culture to be more accepting of deviance.

    “Conservatism” (as defined by mindless hostility toward regulation) became much more popular in the 70’s and 80’s, and we’ve paid a major price for this. Mental illness rages out of control, we have major Wall Street scandals (because the markets aren’t regulated anymore), working class wages have stagnant since the mid-70’s, debt levels are out of control, and America doesn’t make anything anymore.

    There are plenty of Millennials so sick and god damed tired of the Me Generation whining about “big government” and “confiscatory taxes”, that at this point they would accept almost any sort of society over the nihilism and cultural dissolution of neo-liberal capitalism. At least the Soviets and Nazis believed in something besides money.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  44. Feryl says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    And the early-mid twentieth century Socialists/Communists/Fascists were more culturally conservative than 1970’s-present America/England/Japan etc. You Boomers bought a lousy deal; in exchange for “economic freedom”, we got the utter destruction of traditional culture and demographics in many countries. Hell, since the 70’s America doesn’t even lock up mentally ill people anymore. Isn’t “de-regulation” wonderful?

    Burkean conservatism is an Anglo delusion that only works in practice for a fairly short period of time, but ultimately the worship of money by greedy elites will annihilate society’s morals and stability.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  45. Feryl says:
    @Paul

    I suppose it’s part of the mythical conservative “principles”* which seem to include giving de facto infinite funding to the Pentagon with zero accountability. At least that’s what passes for “building the military back up”, which every Republican since the Reagan era spazzes out about.

    *Another of which is complaining that nobody believes in accountability anymore, while simultaneously blaming every thing on this Earth besides the GOP itself for our problems.

  46. Feryl says:
    @216

    The FN in this exit poll got 40% among blue collar workers, but they are low turnout. Among high-turnout Boomer retirees they did much worse.

    In spite of superficial “conservatism”, most Silents and Boomers only want the most tentative reforms to neo-liberalism. Stressed out and thoroughly exploited X-ers and Millennials (who were children when serial killing, child abuse, drug abuse, off-shoring, outrageous loans, etc. all became notable phenomena after about 1975) are the ones who want to pour gas on the culture of the last 40 years and light the fucker up into an inferno, with nothing but ashes remaining. You see the generation gap even on this website, where older posters constantly piss and moan about how awful the mid-twentieth century was (ya know, when immigrants were kept out, markets were regulated, and masses of homeless people and nutcases weren’t roaming the streets), and make laughable claims that the politicians of the 1940’s-60’s are responsible for the mess we are now in (reality check: it was the libertarians/neo-liberals/Reaganites that gutted manufacturing, destroyed unions, refuse to address the mental health crisis that’s been getting progressively worse for 50 years*, and refuse to defend families from high divorce rates and difficult econ. conditions that make families more dysfunctional).

    *There was a pretty big spike in teen suicides and run-aways in the 1980’s; Gen X-ers were treated like such garbage by the Me Generation that many of them desperately wanted out.

    • Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
  47. Twinkie says:
    @Paul

    We already have socialism. It is called defense spending. The money goes to military contractors — socialism for the rich.

    That’s called crony capitalism. It’s slightly better than crony socialism.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Brendan55
  48. Twinkie says:
    @Feryl

    Dot Indians are going to have more friction with whites than East Asians, because, paradoxically, they are too close to whites genetically*.

    On the contrary, Indians display the lowest assimilation index among the major Asian immigrant groups in the United States, because they are so culturally and religiously different from the majority population. The reasons groups such as Filipinos and Koreans display such high rates of assimilation are: 1) their immigrant cohorts are overwhelmingly Christian (Catholic for Filipinos and Protestants, especially evangelical Protestants, for Koreans), which also lowers the barrier for intermarriage and 2) they have a long history of American military presence and influence in their home countries. Neither of these conditions hold for Indians.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    , @Feryl
  49. Feryl says:
    @Twinkie

    Uh, what I was getting at was that West Asians are more genetically similar to whites, and as such, we would expect West Asians and European-Americans to end up encroaching on similar professional/cultural/psychological territory which creates friction. Also, as I said already, East Asians are in a nice position of being neither too similar not too dissimilar from white Americans. Blacks are total alien misfits subconsciously loathed by most middle-upper class whites (who delusionally hold up unusually talented blacks as being characteristic of black potential); Jews/Mid-Easterners/West Asians are close enough to white Americans, but the slight differences still creep out white Americans who find it hard to align with ethnic groups who are trying to encroach on white turf. Remember, we are all in this to perpetuate our genes, however, be that as it may, we really do favor those who are really close to us; we might share a lot of genes with Ash. Jews and even Dot Indians, but not enough to be comfortable with them getting jobs at our expense*.

    *There are enough genetic differences between Anglo-Saxons and Irish people in the British Isles that they’ve had a continuously tense relationship for eons. Compare that to the relative peace in the Scandinavian countries, where for quite some time nearly all the white inhabitants are almost genetically indistinguishable from each other. And then there’s the lingering tensions between the sandy haired Puritans and the red and black haired Celts in America (itself exported from the Brit. Isles), and the Anglo-Scots of Canada Vs the French descendants there. Derbyshire talked about these slightly different groups often hating each other with far more ferocity than they ever did with Africans or Asians.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  50. Feryl says:
    @Twinkie

    There’s a danger here of West Asians considering white people a “lamer”/inferior/more vulnerable variant within the spectrum of Caucasian ancestry, and trying to disfranchise/”erase” whites, just as Chinese and Japanese have done to each other for eons. Human ethnic groups are more comfortable accepting the existence of totally alien tribes, but tribes who are similar yet still obviously different are perceived as greedy or “decadent” or dangerous, and worth trying to stamp out. Hitler hated Jews the most, obviously, and couldn’t be bothered to fully blame Africans or Asians for Europe’s problems (in fact, Hitler accused Jews of weaponizing hapless blacks, just as a lot of dopey white people are still doing)

  51. @Feryl

    Excuse me? “in exchange for economic freedom”? What the hell? There was much more economic freedom in 1960 – it has slowly been going down since even before then, due to you beloved government regulation.

    What is this magical de-regulation that out-sourced the funny farms to the downtowns of America? That was due to pressure from the same former-60’s-radicals that caused all the rest of the problems. Yes, they were of the Boomer generation along with the previous one (after all, most of the professors and older activists could not have been Boomers in 1967). The destruction of American culture was in harmony with MORE REGULATION, not LESS.

    I only wish the country had been de-regulated, by say, a coupla hundred Ron Pauls in the US Congress. It was not to be, hence note the shithole that we’ve become.

    BTW, greedy elites annihilated the morals of Chinese society pretty well from the late 1940’s through the 1980’s. I don’t call them “neo-liberals” – they were Communists. Follow Godfree Roberts’ writing here and you too can have discussions about whether the Soviet 5-year plans were even better than the Red Chinese ones …. etc … it’s a hoot.

    Like I wrote, people forget. You have no idea of how we got here, Feryl, and it’s the same effect as if collectively “people forget”.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    , @Feryl
  52. @Feryl

    … at this point they would accept almost any sort of society over the nihilism and cultural dissolution of neo-liberal capitalism. At least the Soviets and Nazis believed in something besides money.

    Exactly my point. They are way too stupid and too busy on their phones to know anything truthful about history and why we don’t make anything anymore, why debt levels are out of control, and why formerly-middle-class wages have been stagnant.

    They may understand what their problems are – take the wage thing. They may even take the next step of thinking – “there are too many immigrants keeping wages down”, but never get to the root – if you let the Feral Gov’t get big and out of control, possibly they won’t listen to a damn thing you want, like closing the border. Oh, and the elites will get everything they want due to the long arms of the out-of-control government that we made to, you know, regulate things the way we want … hahaha, yeah, that’ll work, sure …

    The ctrl-left, along with their useful idiot voters and supporters have been the sorcerer’s apprentice, stirring up pots of new regulations and solutions yearly, then trying to come up with new ones to neutralize the mess the early spells made.

    Back to the excerpt above, you explain very well why Socialism is on the rebound. You people crawl out of the woodwork every century or so, and people who study history can see the rhyming of it all.

  53. @KenH

    I just used up my [AGREE], Ken, but right you are. It’s a double whammy, between the Government Media and the importation of large masses from the 3rd world, where the Spirit of ’76 is meaningless and completely incomprehensible to the people.

    BTW, thanks for using that expression. I’ve not heard or read “the Spirit of ’76 in probably 20 years.

  54. Brendan55 says:
    @Twinkie

    You don’t have to line up for toilet paper with crony capitalism?

    • LOL: Twinkie
  55. Twinkie says:
    @Feryl

    West Asians are more genetically similar to whites

    Genetic distance is not everything. There is such a thing as convergent evolution – similar environments producing similar characteristics among genetically distant people via different mechanisms. Skin color is one example of convergent evolution among Northern Europeans and Northeast Asians. The same thing can happen broadly with cultures. And indeed Northern European cities often have more in common with Northeast Asian cities than either do with South Asian or Middle Eastern cities.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  56. Feryl says:
    @Twinkie

    Among Anglo-Teutonics of the last, what, 400 years (?), there is over-lap with East Asians. But modern Anglo-Teutonics don’t represent all white people, and in any event, Anglo-Teutonia has been swifty declining since 1945, and may take decades (centuries?) to get back on track.

  57. Anonymous[381] • Disclaimer says:

    Republicans deserve this.

    They are supposed to be the party of individual rights. Few of them stand up for individual rights unless it involves tax cuts for rich parents and their DNA dynasties. That applies to a fragment of the US population, and even that tax favoritism is aimed at maintaining family wealth, not at individual rights. The tax favoritism at the bottom is anti-individual and anti-work. Republicans are all for it, regardless of how low the citizen labor-force participation rate sinks. Hardly any of them oppose handing $6,431 in yearly, refundable child tax credit cash to single moms on top of the welfare that covers their monthly bills. They don’t even oppose it for legal and illegal immigrants with US-born kids, even though they get the welfare by not working hard—by keeping their earned income under the programs’ earned-income limits. Republicans never oppose one more non-refundable child tax credit for dual-earner, above-firing parents to use on their 9th two-week vacation per year, in excess of PTO, preggie leave and lots of days, mornings and weeks off, too.

    Multinational corporations that don’t employ many American citizens are the only people that most Republicans (and Democrats) stand up for outside of factional crony groups. Republicans have sided with every neoliberal social program that came down the pike, aiming to provide employers with a welfare-subsidized labor force of citizens amd noncitizens that can afford to work cheaply due to their monthly welfare and child tax credit cash. They have strip-mined the US middle class, removing the ability for new independent household formation via 40 years of wage stagnation, out-of-control rents and assortative-mate job hogging with family-friendly hours for above-firing crony parents. No wonder, das volken have developed a taste for groupthink and socialism.

    Working families deserve it.

  58. Feryl says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The mid-Century was rougher on Slavs and East Asians that it was on Westerners*. Now the shoe is on the other foot, with the West obviously ruled by decadent fools, and the handful of sane elites not being able to escape the grasp of corporate sponsored cultural Marxism. China basically built itself up by taking advantage of the West’s neo-liberalism.

    *Be that as it may, did even Mao’s China or Stalin’s Russia promote gender bending, the destruction of the family, gambling etc. like the neo-liberal West?

    That was due to pressure from the same former-60’s-radicals that caused all the rest of the problems. Yes, they were of the Boomer generation along with the previous one (after all, most of the professors and older activists could not have been Boomers in 1967). The destruction of American culture was in harmony with MORE REGULATION, not LESS.

    Huh? America in the 1940’s-1960’s aggressively monitored mental health (lots of people got committed), financial behavior (in terms of regulating banks and other finance outfits, stigmatizing personal gambling), immigration (Eisenhower deported lots of Mexicans), and cultural output (bad guys on TV and the movie screen always got busted). Once Silents and Boomers supported or actively participated in protests, riots, assassinations etc., the New Deal generations (Losts and GIs) increasingly succumbed to the pressure to give younger generations what they wanted: a world of decreasing censorship, decreasing behavioral standards, decreasing monitoring of businesses and firms (with Nixon’s EPA and OSHA representing the last great GI programs intended to bend businesses to the public interest). After Nixon got bounced out (the last New Deal president), Americans lost confidence in their ability to do things well, and certainly, confidence in their ability to work as a team . And thus the race to the intellectual and cultural bottom began, with the rising Reaganites of the 70’s vanquishing any sense of noble and idealistic progress, as society began to become obssessed with failure, dysfunction, corruption, folly etc., so as to discourage anyone from being Progressive. Not coincidentally did suicides, child abuse, serial killing, drug abuse, abortion etc. all become massive problems in the late 70’s. The Reaganites, in the 80’s and subsequent decades, only made minor improvements on these problems, and regardless, the Reagnite cures (attacking unions, throwing tons of people behind bars, cutting taxes on rich people) often created other kinds of problems anyway.

    I really don’t understand what your concept of “regulation” is. Clinton completely de-regulated the financial industry in the mid-90’s. What is this modern “regulation” that you speak of? We don’t live in the FDR-Truman-Eisenhower-JFK-LBJ-Nixon era anymore. States did not permit lotteries into the 1970’s (absent a few weird aberrations like Nevada). By the time Reagan’s 2nd term was over, many states had adopted lotteries (gee, let’s encourage people to gamble).

  59. Feryl says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    (after all, most of the professors and older activists could not have been Boomers in 1967).

    Silent Generation rabble rousers were typically cheered on by Boomers, while grating on the nerves of aging Losts and GIs who remembered the turbulent 1910’s/1920’s, and couldn’t understand how crazy Silents and Boomers were to so aggressively question their parents and grandparents. Remember that the Neo-liberal era is a culmination of Silent and Boomer mores; it was Silents who were behind Reagan blowing out Walter Mondale (many people born in the 50’s and 60’s didn’t even bother voting in 1984), and Silents have been heavily Republican since the 80’s (w/liberal Silents generally being ID politics cranks allowed to hang around out of nostalgia for the 60’s).

    The greatest failing of Boomers is that they focused all of their invective on Losts and GIs, w/o realizing that the Silent Gen was transforming American society into a multi-cultural and legalistic mess that couldn’t get anything done anymore. Silents started the divorce epidemic, entered the legal profession in record numbers, and wrote/directed/produced all of those super rough drive in movies and and sleazy 70’s pornos. Of course, they were aided and abetted in this by Boomers, who were too young to know any better.But Boomers, being as flaky as they are, have never effectively rescued America from what the Silents did to us in the 70’s. At this stage, Boomers have abdicated the direction of society to X-ers and Millennials, who never experienced the glory days of America and as such, are not going to flippantly trash New Deal era culture like Silents and Boomers naively did.

  60. @Feryl

    Yeah generally people under 25 are quite blackpilled (of all races). Most don’t get along outside of their own ethnicity and there is a massive disconnect between the boomers, the cucked beta millenials, and us. Sex and relationships are at an all time low.

    Gen Z kids feel stifled and I dont blame us.

    Boomers live utterly pointless lives. Talking about their pool, their boat, their golf game. None really care for the future. Just gonna coast until they die a meaningless death. I swear they all take SSRIs. Millenials, especially men, just seem like huge betas, with no personality. Gen X is okay but aging, surprisingly they seem the most angry and redpilled. Just normal guys.

    Anyways, quite frankly I don’t think many Gen Z kids would shed many tears if society collapsed. Everybody hates it and each other. The boomers are blind to it all because diversity is our strength. And just btw – I want to say a hearty fuck you to the boomers for throwing away our people’s heritage so your ponzi scheme pensions could last a little bit longer. I sure as hell don’t expect a pension in the 20% white Canada of 2060.

    • Replies: @Oblivionrecurs
  61. @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    Every circle I’m in openly wishes for civil war and climate change or liberalism to get bad enough that we can live out our Syria fantasies

    Going to be really fucking depressing

    • Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
  62. @Oblivionrecurs

    Syria? Or Rwanda?
    Either way that doesn’t sound too depressing to me. It’s worse just sitting here doing nothing.

    What circles are you in, btw? I suspect that an increasing number of young white men feel this way but we don’t even admit it to others.

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