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Conservatism is liberalism’s shadow, part XXVIII:

There is a lot of talk about how the socially conservative, economically leftist quadrant of the political compass is drastically underserved (while the socially liberal, economically ‘conservative’ is full of corporately-funded chiefs who don’t have any indians).

Maybe, but one thing that becomes apparent when sifting through social survey data is how relentlessly leftward so many social attitude indicators have moved over the last couple of decades and continue to move further still today, especially among whites.

Conservatives have held on guns–which is more of a libertarian issue to begin with–and abortion. That’s about it. On every other front in the Culture War, there aren’t battles being waged–there are routs being made.

GSS variables used: GRASS, POLVIEWS(1-3)(4)(5-7), YEAR

 
• Category: Culture/Society, Economics, History, Science • Tags: Drugs, GSS, Politics 
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  1. Is it me or do a lot of these things seem to track with the USSR breaking up?

    • Agree: Servant of Gla'aki
    • Replies: @Indiana Jack
    @songbird

    According to ancient writers, the Roman statesman Publius Cornelius Scipio Nascica Corculum, a champion of traditional Roman morals, opposed the destruction of Carthage during the Third Punic War, warning that the presence of a formidable enemy helped to keep the Romans from becoming too loose and undisciplined, and that it served to unite Romans against a common foe. It may have been that the threat of a hostile USSR served the same purpose for the USA.

  2. there are routs being made.

    Those changes in public opinion are probably the result of the internalization of libertarian impulses among rank and file conservatives.

    They are not enthusiastic supporters of legal marijuana. Rather, they are going along to be consistent. That’s my hunch anyway.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Rosie


    Those changes in public opinion are probably the result of the internalization of libertarian impulses among rank and file conservatives.

    They are not enthusiastic supporters of legal marijuana. Rather, they are going along to be consistent. That’s my hunch anyway.
     
    You have to bear in mind that people can have different motivations for supporting drug legalisation. Some people support legalisation because they simply want freer access to drugs. Some support legalisation for genuine libertarian ideological reasons.

    And some people support legalisation because they believe the costs of the War On Drugs have far outweighed any benefits. It's not that they approve of drugs, but they see the War On Drugs as futile, unwinnable and having generally disastrous results. In other words their support for legalisation is pragmatic rather than ideological.

    It's possible that these conservatives haven't changed their views on drugs at all. They may simply have been forced to the unpalatable conclusion that the War On Drugs is not only futile, it may actually be doing more harm than good.

    Replies: @216

  3. We cannot preserve our culture without autonomy.

    • Replies: @Talha
    @216

    Could you elaborate? Are you saying that if whites were to split off, they would no longer be supportive of legal weed? I thought whites kind of liked their weed (in general), no?

    Peace.

    Replies: @216

  4. Smoke trees, smoke poles, never tobaccos.

  5. Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones was once asked in an interview if drugs should be legalized. Rather than being eagerly for it as I would have expected, Mick said you should try that out in a few small areas first and see how it works before having the whole country adopt it at once. Mick, always the astute businessman, said if a company wanted to introduce a new product they would test market on a small area first and said that might be a good idea too in the area of political changes.

    This struck me as a typical Anglo point of view, moving slowly in changing long established laws and customs. It’s why the English speaking countries never had anything like the violent French Revolution and still continued to use things like feet, yards, and miles instead of switching over to the metric system like everyone else. This traditional view is slowly declining and you can see it in the eagerness of younger people in wanting to quickly make radical societal changes, to the point that young people now make an aging counter culture figure like Jagger look like a hidebound conservative by comparison.

    • Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
    • Replies: @Supply and Demand
    @Mark G.

    no one born after 1985 thinks Mick Jagger is cool, boomer -- and it's not for his ideology. The music is trash, jewish smoke and mirrors, and profoundly anti-white in harmony and cadence. There is negro jazz more white than The Rolling Stones.

  6. @216
    We cannot preserve our culture without autonomy.

    Replies: @Talha

    Could you elaborate? Are you saying that if whites were to split off, they would no longer be supportive of legal weed? I thought whites kind of liked their weed (in general), no?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @216
    @Talha

    You can't preserve one set of cultural norms, when Hollywood, the news media and academia are promoting a rival set.

    Replies: @AndrewR

  7. This is another reflection of Populism working against Globalist MegaCorporations.

    Big Pharma $$$ artificially pushed MJ to an unobtainable classification. They wanted to analyze the plant and patent each individual chemical as a prescription drug. It took time, but the unreasonable nature & overreach of BigPharma manipulation ultimately failed.

    Will any other low risk substances also wind up on the bandwagon towards legality? MDMA perhaps?

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @A123


    This is another reflection of Populism working against Globalist MegaCorporations.
     
    I got news for you - big business is primed to dominate legalized controlled substances. They have the farmland, the DNA-intellectual property firepower, and legal and lobbying prowess to impede indie entrants and cartelize any commodity that requires regulation. It’s a matter of time before there is a “happy marriage” between tax revenue-seeking states and captive profit-seeking big business.

    Replies: @WorkingClass, @A123

    , @AndrewR
    @A123

    If it was Schedule I then wasn't research on it banned?

    Replies: @A123

  8. A Brief History of Reparation’s Win – 2029

    A Brief History of Amnesty’s Win – 2031

    A Brief History of Heroin’s Win – 2034

    A Brief History of Prostitution’s Win – 2037

    A Brief History of China’s Defeat of The United States – 2059

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @prime noticer

    2059? 2039 seems plausible, 2049 at the latest so the CCP can claim a round 100 years, though 2027 seems like a target that is achievable and optically more attractive to Chinese minds (88 years of CCP rule) at the rate Mr. Bai Den is going (h/t Peak Prosperity).

    , @Almost Missouri
    @prime noticer

    Good one.

    Though I think Amnesty will win much sooner than 2031, like maybe later this year. I mean, its already happening de facto, so...

    And Heroin (billed as "Fentanyl") already won several years ago. Likewise Prostitution (billed as "Craigslist" and "Only Fans").

    What could be added between Reparations and China's Defeat of the United States?


    A Brief History of Slavery's Win (billed as "reverse slavery").

    A Brief History of Concentration Camps' Win. (The AOC "Reeducation To Love" Act.)

    A Brief History of Genocide's Win (billed as "social justice")
     

    After 2059:

    A Brief History of Colonialism's Win (China re-seeds expat Caucasians into the Great Plains to raise bison herds to feed China's urban market and bison gonads to feed China's aphrodisiac market.)

    A Brief History of Sino-Supremacism's Win

    A Brief History of Sino-Terraforming's Win.

    A Brief History of Sino-Genoforming's Win.

    A Brief History of How-I-Learned-to-Stop-Worrying-and-Love-Our-Plastic-Oceans Win.

    A Brief History of Sino-Stellar-Colonialism's Win.
     

    [Repeat from 2059 for Mars.]
    , @Audacious Epigone
    @prime noticer

    That's a conservative timeline.

    Heh heh.

  9. If any group of people in this country deserve reparations it’s the people who’s life was destroyed by the war on weed.

    • Agree: Adam Smith
    • Replies: @anonymous
    @WorkingClass

    If you are speaking of street dealers, they were the beneficiaries of weed being illegal more than the victims. Their hustle would be impossible if people could legally get weed at some store.

  10. @A123
    This is another reflection of Populism working against Globalist MegaCorporations.

    Big Pharma $$$ artificially pushed MJ to an unobtainable classification. They wanted to analyze the plant and patent each individual chemical as a prescription drug. It took time, but the unreasonable nature & overreach of BigPharma manipulation ultimately failed.

    Will any other low risk substances also wind up on the bandwagon towards legality? MDMA perhaps?

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Twinkie, @AndrewR

    This is another reflection of Populism working against Globalist MegaCorporations.

    I got news for you – big business is primed to dominate legalized controlled substances. They have the farmland, the DNA-intellectual property firepower, and legal and lobbying prowess to impede indie entrants and cartelize any commodity that requires regulation. It’s a matter of time before there is a “happy marriage” between tax revenue-seeking states and captive profit-seeking big business.

    • Replies: @WorkingClass
    @Twinkie


    I got news for you – big business is primed to dominate legalized controlled substances.
     
    Correct. That is why I keep saying if you can't grow your own the shit ain't legal.

    Replies: @Adam Smith

    , @A123
    @Twinkie

    Corporations can try to enter the market. However, the scenario resembles Over The Counter [OTC] items at a much lower price versus prescriptions. If they want to compete there is much less potential revenue.

    Cartels form around products with very high entry costs and/or limited supply. For example OPEC for oil. MJ is a weed, so the entry cost for an individual is fairly low. A cartel is nearly impossible even with Deep State Establishment collusion.

    Individuals and co-ops crafting product will keep quality up and prices competitive. The consumer marketing brand shuffle is much harder when the corporation cannot skimp on quality, quantity, or price.

    PEACE 😇

  11. @Talha
    @216

    Could you elaborate? Are you saying that if whites were to split off, they would no longer be supportive of legal weed? I thought whites kind of liked their weed (in general), no?

    Peace.

    Replies: @216

    You can’t preserve one set of cultural norms, when Hollywood, the news media and academia are promoting a rival set.

    • Thanks: Talha
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @216

    Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Weed comes with problems, but orders of magnitude less than alcohol consumption. Anyone who wants to ban weed but not alcohol is a drooling idiot.

    Replies: @216, @anon

  12. I am not a fan of legalized marijuana. I have seen heavy users become schizophrenic and psychotic. The worst thing about it though is that it eventually leads to legalized hard drugs. Oregon recently legalized hard drugs and here in Washington State police can no longer arrest people for hard drug possession, at least under X amount. Some might celebrate this but it brings down the culture and the country. The more druggies out loose the more druggies we create as they influence others. There is nothing good about being a country filled with drug addicts.

    I have very much noticed that today’s social conservatives are only focused on abortion and guns. I wish this wasn’t the case as there are so many other issues I care about. A prime example is the breakdown of the traditional family. I also miss the days when conservatives were tough on crime, today they root for prison reform just like the libs.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Jay Fink

    As to your first sentence, you've probably known people who have been negatively affected by alcohol. Should we bring back prohibition?

    And theree is a huge difference between decriminalization and legalization, and your conflation of the two leads me to assume dishonesty on your part.

    Almost everyone wants less crime and drug addiction. But some people have figured out that throwing people in prison at the drop of a hat isn't the best thing for society

    Replies: @216, @Jay Fink

  13. How many young folks can effectively oppose tyranny when they are stoned out of their gourds? Weed is far more potent nowadays than the weed of the Boomer protestors. Then there is the effect of soy, much more prevalent in what should be called Gen-Soy rather than Gen-Z

  14. @prime noticer
    A Brief History of Reparation's Win - 2029

    A Brief History of Amnesty's Win - 2031

    A Brief History of Heroin's Win - 2034

    A Brief History of Prostitution's Win - 2037

    A Brief History of China's Defeat of The United States - 2059

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @Almost Missouri, @Audacious Epigone

    2059? 2039 seems plausible, 2049 at the latest so the CCP can claim a round 100 years, though 2027 seems like a target that is achievable and optically more attractive to Chinese minds (88 years of CCP rule) at the rate Mr. Bai Den is going (h/t Peak Prosperity).

  15. @prime noticer
    A Brief History of Reparation's Win - 2029

    A Brief History of Amnesty's Win - 2031

    A Brief History of Heroin's Win - 2034

    A Brief History of Prostitution's Win - 2037

    A Brief History of China's Defeat of The United States - 2059

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @Almost Missouri, @Audacious Epigone

    Good one.

    Though I think Amnesty will win much sooner than 2031, like maybe later this year. I mean, its already happening de facto, so…

    And Heroin (billed as “Fentanyl”) already won several years ago. Likewise Prostitution (billed as “Craigslist” and “Only Fans”).

    What could be added between Reparations and China’s Defeat of the United States?

    A Brief History of Slavery’s Win (billed as “reverse slavery”).

    A Brief History of Concentration Camps’ Win. (The AOC “Reeducation To Love” Act.)

    A Brief History of Genocide’s Win (billed as “social justice”)

    After 2059:

    A Brief History of Colonialism’s Win (China re-seeds expat Caucasians into the Great Plains to raise bison herds to feed China’s urban market and bison gonads to feed China’s aphrodisiac market.)

    A Brief History of Sino-Supremacism’s Win

    A Brief History of Sino-Terraforming’s Win.

    A Brief History of Sino-Genoforming’s Win.

    A Brief History of How-I-Learned-to-Stop-Worrying-and-Love-Our-Plastic-Oceans Win.

    A Brief History of Sino-Stellar-Colonialism’s Win.

    [Repeat from 2059 for Mars.]

  16. @Twinkie
    @A123


    This is another reflection of Populism working against Globalist MegaCorporations.
     
    I got news for you - big business is primed to dominate legalized controlled substances. They have the farmland, the DNA-intellectual property firepower, and legal and lobbying prowess to impede indie entrants and cartelize any commodity that requires regulation. It’s a matter of time before there is a “happy marriage” between tax revenue-seeking states and captive profit-seeking big business.

    Replies: @WorkingClass, @A123

    I got news for you – big business is primed to dominate legalized controlled substances.

    Correct. That is why I keep saying if you can’t grow your own the shit ain’t legal.

    • Replies: @Adam Smith
    @WorkingClass

    In the People's Commonwealth of Taxachusetts you can grow 6 plants for personal recreational use. (12 plants for two or more adults.)

    When people can grow 6 plants nobody will buy "government" weed.

  17. @216
    @Talha

    You can't preserve one set of cultural norms, when Hollywood, the news media and academia are promoting a rival set.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Weed comes with problems, but orders of magnitude less than alcohol consumption. Anyone who wants to ban weed but not alcohol is a drooling idiot.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @216
    @AndrewR

    The problem isn't chemical, its cultural.

    Cannabis as commonly consumed is an endorsement of the liberal system.

    People like Seth Rogen are the scum of the Earth, but the Culture Industry valorizes him and his pot habit.

    , @anon
    @AndrewR

    Weed comes with problems, but orders of magnitude less than alcohol consumption.

    Citation required.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

  18. @A123
    This is another reflection of Populism working against Globalist MegaCorporations.

    Big Pharma $$$ artificially pushed MJ to an unobtainable classification. They wanted to analyze the plant and patent each individual chemical as a prescription drug. It took time, but the unreasonable nature & overreach of BigPharma manipulation ultimately failed.

    Will any other low risk substances also wind up on the bandwagon towards legality? MDMA perhaps?

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Twinkie, @AndrewR

    If it was Schedule I then wasn’t research on it banned?

    • Replies: @A123
    @AndrewR


    If it was Schedule I then wasn’t research on it banned?
     
    The FDA dealt weed to BigPharma, as part of the plan to patent natural chemicals as overpriced prescription drugs.

    https://www.fda.gov/news-events/public-health-focus/fda-and-cannabis-research-and-drug-approval-process

    Hypocrisy from the FDA? Are you surprised?

    PEACE 😇

     
    https://pics.onsizzle.com/oppose-medical-marijuana-because-its-a-gateway-drug-butid-be-17282328.png
  19. A Brief History of Colonialism’s Win (China re-seeds expat Caucasians into the Great Plains to raise bison herds to feed China’s urban market and bison gonads to feed China’s aphrodisiac market.)

    This is seriously funny. You win the thread.

  20. @Jay Fink
    I am not a fan of legalized marijuana. I have seen heavy users become schizophrenic and psychotic. The worst thing about it though is that it eventually leads to legalized hard drugs. Oregon recently legalized hard drugs and here in Washington State police can no longer arrest people for hard drug possession, at least under X amount. Some might celebrate this but it brings down the culture and the country. The more druggies out loose the more druggies we create as they influence others. There is nothing good about being a country filled with drug addicts.

    I have very much noticed that today's social conservatives are only focused on abortion and guns. I wish this wasn't the case as there are so many other issues I care about. A prime example is the breakdown of the traditional family. I also miss the days when conservatives were tough on crime, today they root for prison reform just like the libs.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    As to your first sentence, you’ve probably known people who have been negatively affected by alcohol. Should we bring back prohibition?

    And theree is a huge difference between decriminalization and legalization, and your conflation of the two leads me to assume dishonesty on your part.

    Almost everyone wants less crime and drug addiction. But some people have figured out that throwing people in prison at the drop of a hat isn’t the best thing for society

    • Replies: @216
    @AndrewR

    We should raise the taxes on alcohol consumption, and restrict the advertising, analogous on a lesser degree to what we did with tobacco.

    , @Jay Fink
    @AndrewR

    The reduction in crime we saw after tough on crime policies in the 90s was nothing short of amazing. Not even the brightest optimist could have seen that coming. Unfortunately we didn't appreciate it and took it for granted. While I'm sure there were other factors, locking up a record number of law breakers was a big part of the formula.

  21. anonymous[174] • Disclaimer says:
    @WorkingClass
    If any group of people in this country deserve reparations it's the people who's life was destroyed by the war on weed.

    Replies: @anonymous

    If you are speaking of street dealers, they were the beneficiaries of weed being illegal more than the victims. Their hustle would be impossible if people could legally get weed at some store.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  22. Weed can’t make Americans any dumber than they already are.

  23. @Twinkie
    @A123


    This is another reflection of Populism working against Globalist MegaCorporations.
     
    I got news for you - big business is primed to dominate legalized controlled substances. They have the farmland, the DNA-intellectual property firepower, and legal and lobbying prowess to impede indie entrants and cartelize any commodity that requires regulation. It’s a matter of time before there is a “happy marriage” between tax revenue-seeking states and captive profit-seeking big business.

    Replies: @WorkingClass, @A123

    Corporations can try to enter the market. However, the scenario resembles Over The Counter [OTC] items at a much lower price versus prescriptions. If they want to compete there is much less potential revenue.

    Cartels form around products with very high entry costs and/or limited supply. For example OPEC for oil. MJ is a weed, so the entry cost for an individual is fairly low. A cartel is nearly impossible even with Deep State Establishment collusion.

    Individuals and co-ops crafting product will keep quality up and prices competitive. The consumer marketing brand shuffle is much harder when the corporation cannot skimp on quality, quantity, or price.

    PEACE 😇

  24. @WorkingClass
    @Twinkie


    I got news for you – big business is primed to dominate legalized controlled substances.
     
    Correct. That is why I keep saying if you can't grow your own the shit ain't legal.

    Replies: @Adam Smith

    In the People’s Commonwealth of Taxachusetts you can grow 6 plants for personal recreational use. (12 plants for two or more adults.)

    When people can grow 6 plants nobody will buy “government” weed.

  25. @AndrewR
    @216

    Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Weed comes with problems, but orders of magnitude less than alcohol consumption. Anyone who wants to ban weed but not alcohol is a drooling idiot.

    Replies: @216, @anon

    The problem isn’t chemical, its cultural.

    Cannabis as commonly consumed is an endorsement of the liberal system.

    People like Seth Rogen are the scum of the Earth, but the Culture Industry valorizes him and his pot habit.

  26. @AndrewR
    @Jay Fink

    As to your first sentence, you've probably known people who have been negatively affected by alcohol. Should we bring back prohibition?

    And theree is a huge difference between decriminalization and legalization, and your conflation of the two leads me to assume dishonesty on your part.

    Almost everyone wants less crime and drug addiction. But some people have figured out that throwing people in prison at the drop of a hat isn't the best thing for society

    Replies: @216, @Jay Fink

    We should raise the taxes on alcohol consumption, and restrict the advertising, analogous on a lesser degree to what we did with tobacco.

  27. @AndrewR
    @A123

    If it was Schedule I then wasn't research on it banned?

    Replies: @A123

    If it was Schedule I then wasn’t research on it banned?

    The FDA dealt weed to BigPharma, as part of the plan to patent natural chemicals as overpriced prescription drugs.

    https://www.fda.gov/news-events/public-health-focus/fda-and-cannabis-research-and-drug-approval-process

    Hypocrisy from the FDA? Are you surprised?

    PEACE 😇

     

    • LOL: AndrewR
  28. @AndrewR
    @Jay Fink

    As to your first sentence, you've probably known people who have been negatively affected by alcohol. Should we bring back prohibition?

    And theree is a huge difference between decriminalization and legalization, and your conflation of the two leads me to assume dishonesty on your part.

    Almost everyone wants less crime and drug addiction. But some people have figured out that throwing people in prison at the drop of a hat isn't the best thing for society

    Replies: @216, @Jay Fink

    The reduction in crime we saw after tough on crime policies in the 90s was nothing short of amazing. Not even the brightest optimist could have seen that coming. Unfortunately we didn’t appreciate it and took it for granted. While I’m sure there were other factors, locking up a record number of law breakers was a big part of the formula.

  29. 10 years after weed was legalized in some states, is there any data on the effect of the workforce? In Colorado, what percentage of 30 year old men were working full time 10 years ago? What about now?

  30. @Mark G.
    Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones was once asked in an interview if drugs should be legalized. Rather than being eagerly for it as I would have expected, Mick said you should try that out in a few small areas first and see how it works before having the whole country adopt it at once. Mick, always the astute businessman, said if a company wanted to introduce a new product they would test market on a small area first and said that might be a good idea too in the area of political changes.

    This struck me as a typical Anglo point of view, moving slowly in changing long established laws and customs. It's why the English speaking countries never had anything like the violent French Revolution and still continued to use things like feet, yards, and miles instead of switching over to the metric system like everyone else. This traditional view is slowly declining and you can see it in the eagerness of younger people in wanting to quickly make radical societal changes, to the point that young people now make an aging counter culture figure like Jagger look like a hidebound conservative by comparison.

    Replies: @Supply and Demand

    no one born after 1985 thinks Mick Jagger is cool, boomer — and it’s not for his ideology. The music is trash, jewish smoke and mirrors, and profoundly anti-white in harmony and cadence. There is negro jazz more white than The Rolling Stones.

  31. The saving grace is that most lefties are hypocrites. Obama — who mouths all the standard lefty positions, ran a 1950s-style home where the man has the big job, the wife’s role is strictly child-rearing and social, and traditional social norms are followed to a T. After a successful career, he retired to a sedate and stately upper-crust home on Martha’s Vineyard. No drugs, no chasing women, no drama.

    Marijuana use is not on an uptrend. Compared to 40 years ago, there is a clear downtrend.

    Smoking meanwhile is down by probably 75%.
    https://ourworldindata.org/exports/sales-of-cigarettes-per-adult-per-day-c9427a39d599b9132b6c7e6e864b5d81_v32_850x600.svg

    Gay marriage may be up, but what in history can compare to the extraordinary partner counts and common pederasty of the US in the 1970s? I am pretty sure a far smaller share of kids are being sexually groomed and exploited now than was the case back then.

    Sex is down, the divorce rate is way down… Homeschooling is presently hovering around 100% in blue America — with all the lefty teachers reaching a unified consensus that education outside of the home is too radical and imprudent of an idea.

    Lets look at lefty ‘radicals’ AOC and Ilhan Omar — what do their revealed preferences say about how they really feel about white men? Interesting. In the case of Omar, she had to explode the norms of her community, shock her constituents and toss aside her family to follow her burning hot desire for nondescript dude who was neither famous nor rich. So not rich she had to funnel money to him. What was it about him that made him so irresistible to her? Interesting. What about Kamala Harris?

    As for Jack Dorsey — ok – I admit he might really be a radical in his heart of hearts given that he apparently hasn’t showered or shaved since the pandemic began.

    • Replies: @DanHessinMD
    @DanHessinMD

    And yet on second thought Jack Dorsey is an early adopter and hardcore advocate of Bitcoin. Does that make him the modern equivalent of a hard-money gold bug who doesn’t trust the government with his money? Kinda similar to Ludwig von Mises and Friedrich Hayek who were idolized with signage at CPAC? (Revealed preferences strike again!!)

    , @anon
    @DanHessinMD

    Gay marriage may be up, but what in history can compare to the extraordinary partner counts and common pederasty of the US in the 1970s?

    A couple of different eras in ancient Rome come to mind.

    I am pretty sure a far smaller share of kids are being sexually groomed and exploited now than was the case back then.

    What evidence supports this?

    Replies: @DanHessinMD

  32. @DanHessinMD
    The saving grace is that most lefties are hypocrites. Obama -- who mouths all the standard lefty positions, ran a 1950s-style home where the man has the big job, the wife's role is strictly child-rearing and social, and traditional social norms are followed to a T. After a successful career, he retired to a sedate and stately upper-crust home on Martha's Vineyard. No drugs, no chasing women, no drama.

    Marijuana use is not on an uptrend. Compared to 40 years ago, there is a clear downtrend.
    https://www.childtrends.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/marijuana-use-figure-1.png

    Smoking meanwhile is down by probably 75%.
    https://ourworldindata.org/exports/sales-of-cigarettes-per-adult-per-day-c9427a39d599b9132b6c7e6e864b5d81_v32_850x600.svg

    Gay marriage may be up, but what in history can compare to the extraordinary partner counts and common pederasty of the US in the 1970s? I am pretty sure a far smaller share of kids are being sexually groomed and exploited now than was the case back then.

    Sex is down, the divorce rate is way down... Homeschooling is presently hovering around 100% in blue America -- with all the lefty teachers reaching a unified consensus that education outside of the home is too radical and imprudent of an idea.

    Lets look at lefty 'radicals' AOC and Ilhan Omar -- what do their revealed preferences say about how they really feel about white men? Interesting. In the case of Omar, she had to explode the norms of her community, shock her constituents and toss aside her family to follow her burning hot desire for nondescript dude who was neither famous nor rich. So not rich she had to funnel money to him. What was it about him that made him so irresistible to her? Interesting. What about Kamala Harris?

    As for Jack Dorsey -- ok - I admit he might really be a radical in his heart of hearts given that he apparently hasn't showered or shaved since the pandemic began.

    Replies: @DanHessinMD, @anon

    And yet on second thought Jack Dorsey is an early adopter and hardcore advocate of Bitcoin. Does that make him the modern equivalent of a hard-money gold bug who doesn’t trust the government with his money? Kinda similar to Ludwig von Mises and Friedrich Hayek who were idolized with signage at CPAC? (Revealed preferences strike again!!)

  33. @AndrewR
    @216

    Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Weed comes with problems, but orders of magnitude less than alcohol consumption. Anyone who wants to ban weed but not alcohol is a drooling idiot.

    Replies: @216, @anon

    Weed comes with problems, but orders of magnitude less than alcohol consumption.

    Citation required.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @anon



    Weed comes with problems, but orders of magnitude less than alcohol consumption.

     

    Citation required.

     

    It became apparent to me as long as 40 years ago that contrary citations would never interest many of marijuana's dedicated proponents. They just wanted their weed.

    Marijuana's proponents might not even be factually mistaken, though I suspect that they are; but being stoned, they dropped out of actual discussion a long time ago. They only want to harangue you.

    Well, actually, as far as I can tell, they mainly only want to get stoned.

    None of my kids has yet grown up to be a pothead, but if any does, then I shall not thank marijuana's proponents for their sordid involvement in the matter.

  34. anon[259] • Disclaimer says:
    @DanHessinMD
    The saving grace is that most lefties are hypocrites. Obama -- who mouths all the standard lefty positions, ran a 1950s-style home where the man has the big job, the wife's role is strictly child-rearing and social, and traditional social norms are followed to a T. After a successful career, he retired to a sedate and stately upper-crust home on Martha's Vineyard. No drugs, no chasing women, no drama.

    Marijuana use is not on an uptrend. Compared to 40 years ago, there is a clear downtrend.
    https://www.childtrends.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/marijuana-use-figure-1.png

    Smoking meanwhile is down by probably 75%.
    https://ourworldindata.org/exports/sales-of-cigarettes-per-adult-per-day-c9427a39d599b9132b6c7e6e864b5d81_v32_850x600.svg

    Gay marriage may be up, but what in history can compare to the extraordinary partner counts and common pederasty of the US in the 1970s? I am pretty sure a far smaller share of kids are being sexually groomed and exploited now than was the case back then.

    Sex is down, the divorce rate is way down... Homeschooling is presently hovering around 100% in blue America -- with all the lefty teachers reaching a unified consensus that education outside of the home is too radical and imprudent of an idea.

    Lets look at lefty 'radicals' AOC and Ilhan Omar -- what do their revealed preferences say about how they really feel about white men? Interesting. In the case of Omar, she had to explode the norms of her community, shock her constituents and toss aside her family to follow her burning hot desire for nondescript dude who was neither famous nor rich. So not rich she had to funnel money to him. What was it about him that made him so irresistible to her? Interesting. What about Kamala Harris?

    As for Jack Dorsey -- ok - I admit he might really be a radical in his heart of hearts given that he apparently hasn't showered or shaved since the pandemic began.

    Replies: @DanHessinMD, @anon

    Gay marriage may be up, but what in history can compare to the extraordinary partner counts and common pederasty of the US in the 1970s?

    A couple of different eras in ancient Rome come to mind.

    I am pretty sure a far smaller share of kids are being sexually groomed and exploited now than was the case back then.

    What evidence supports this?

    • Replies: @DanHessinMD
    @anon

    "I am pretty sure a far smaller share of kids are being sexually groomed and exploited now than was the case back then.

    What evidence supports this?"

    It's just my sense.

    (1) I was never sexually abused and I don't anyone my age (around 40) and younger who was. Perhaps I just had a good environment but if this were so common in my lifetime, I am sure I would have heard about some of it.

    (2) Look at an article like this:
    https://time.com/longform/boy-scouts-sex-abuse/

    All the victims are ages 56-70. Those people would have been abused in the 1960s and 1970s.

    I get the same impression with the Catholic Church abuse scandal: All the victims seem quite old.

    (2) With helicopter parenting and sexual abuse scandals having blown up, I just can't see a middle aged guy having a 'special relationship' with a boy not his own and not have it set off alarm bells among almost everybody these days. Everyone wants to report everyone else now -- I mean how many times have I been glared at scolded in the last year for having my nose poking out of my mask?

    If these scolds had a neighborhood weirdo/pervert to report, how fulfilled and important they would feel!

    (3) My sense is that the reason so much old stuff is coming out now is because of how much the social standards have changed. Something that people lived with in 1970 is now unspeakably evil. Doesn't it seem like you'd have to be completely insane to try something like that today?

  35. @songbird
    Is it me or do a lot of these things seem to track with the USSR breaking up?

    Replies: @Indiana Jack

    According to ancient writers, the Roman statesman Publius Cornelius Scipio Nascica Corculum, a champion of traditional Roman morals, opposed the destruction of Carthage during the Third Punic War, warning that the presence of a formidable enemy helped to keep the Romans from becoming too loose and undisciplined, and that it served to unite Romans against a common foe. It may have been that the threat of a hostile USSR served the same purpose for the USA.

  36. @Rosie

    there are routs being made.
     
    Those changes in public opinion are probably the result of the internalization of libertarian impulses among rank and file conservatives.

    They are not enthusiastic supporters of legal marijuana. Rather, they are going along to be consistent. That's my hunch anyway.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    Those changes in public opinion are probably the result of the internalization of libertarian impulses among rank and file conservatives.

    They are not enthusiastic supporters of legal marijuana. Rather, they are going along to be consistent. That’s my hunch anyway.

    You have to bear in mind that people can have different motivations for supporting drug legalisation. Some people support legalisation because they simply want freer access to drugs. Some support legalisation for genuine libertarian ideological reasons.

    And some people support legalisation because they believe the costs of the War On Drugs have far outweighed any benefits. It’s not that they approve of drugs, but they see the War On Drugs as futile, unwinnable and having generally disastrous results. In other words their support for legalisation is pragmatic rather than ideological.

    It’s possible that these conservatives haven’t changed their views on drugs at all. They may simply have been forced to the unpalatable conclusion that the War On Drugs is not only futile, it may actually be doing more harm than good.

    • Agree: V. K. Ovelund
    • Replies: @216
    @dfordoom

    The Culture Industry has condemned tobacco, but legitimized cannabis.

    There is no logic to this distinction, only liberalism.

    Use of cannabis subverts traditional notions of morality, and promotes laziness.

    It's not a matter of chemistry, nor is it a matter of policy. Most people don't think that way. It's an emotional/cultural matter.

    Recreational drug use is a morally shameful act, and conservatives don't say this anymore. Regardless of what the drug policy should be, it is now cultural conservatism which is morally shamed. And that's wrong.

    Replies: @dfordoom

  37. 216 says: • Website
    @dfordoom
    @Rosie


    Those changes in public opinion are probably the result of the internalization of libertarian impulses among rank and file conservatives.

    They are not enthusiastic supporters of legal marijuana. Rather, they are going along to be consistent. That’s my hunch anyway.
     
    You have to bear in mind that people can have different motivations for supporting drug legalisation. Some people support legalisation because they simply want freer access to drugs. Some support legalisation for genuine libertarian ideological reasons.

    And some people support legalisation because they believe the costs of the War On Drugs have far outweighed any benefits. It's not that they approve of drugs, but they see the War On Drugs as futile, unwinnable and having generally disastrous results. In other words their support for legalisation is pragmatic rather than ideological.

    It's possible that these conservatives haven't changed their views on drugs at all. They may simply have been forced to the unpalatable conclusion that the War On Drugs is not only futile, it may actually be doing more harm than good.

    Replies: @216

    The Culture Industry has condemned tobacco, but legitimized cannabis.

    There is no logic to this distinction, only liberalism.

    Use of cannabis subverts traditional notions of morality, and promotes laziness.

    It’s not a matter of chemistry, nor is it a matter of policy. Most people don’t think that way. It’s an emotional/cultural matter.

    Recreational drug use is a morally shameful act, and conservatives don’t say this anymore. Regardless of what the drug policy should be, it is now cultural conservatism which is morally shamed. And that’s wrong.

    • Agree: Jay Fink, Jack Armstrong
    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @216


    The Culture Industry has condemned tobacco, but legitimized cannabis.

    There is no logic to this distinction, only liberalism.
     
    I agree.

    So I assume that, in the interests of avoiding hypocrisy, you're in favour of the prohibition of tobacco and alcohol and all mind-altering drugs including antidepressants?

    Use of cannabis subverts traditional notions of morality, and promotes laziness.
     
    It's possible that the prohibition of drugs in the first place is what caused the drug culture to develop as an anti-social oppositional culture. When you criminalise a section of the population you can hardly complain when those people become oppositional.

    Recreational drug use is a morally shameful act
     
    Lots of things are considered morally shameful acts by various people. Should the government make all such acts illegal and arrest people for committing those acts? Is it the government's role to act as a moral policeman, enforcing your particular moral code on the rest of the population? Because that seems to be what you'd like.

    Take note that the survey did not say anything about how conservatives actually feel about drugs. It merely surveyed their views on whether it was the government's role to enforce a particular moral code.

    And before you accuse me of being a pot-head I personally dislike marijuana intensely and wouldn't touch the stuff with a barge pole. I'm just not convinced that prohibition is either workable or desirable.

    Replies: @216

  38. @anon
    @AndrewR

    Weed comes with problems, but orders of magnitude less than alcohol consumption.

    Citation required.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

    Weed comes with problems, but orders of magnitude less than alcohol consumption.

    Citation required.

    It became apparent to me as long as 40 years ago that contrary citations would never interest many of marijuana’s dedicated proponents. They just wanted their weed.

    Marijuana’s proponents might not even be factually mistaken, though I suspect that they are; but being stoned, they dropped out of actual discussion a long time ago. They only want to harangue you.

    Well, actually, as far as I can tell, they mainly only want to get stoned.

    None of my kids has yet grown up to be a pothead, but if any does, then I shall not thank marijuana’s proponents for their sordid involvement in the matter.

  39. @anon
    @DanHessinMD

    Gay marriage may be up, but what in history can compare to the extraordinary partner counts and common pederasty of the US in the 1970s?

    A couple of different eras in ancient Rome come to mind.

    I am pretty sure a far smaller share of kids are being sexually groomed and exploited now than was the case back then.

    What evidence supports this?

    Replies: @DanHessinMD

    “I am pretty sure a far smaller share of kids are being sexually groomed and exploited now than was the case back then.

    What evidence supports this?”

    It’s just my sense.

    (1) I was never sexually abused and I don’t anyone my age (around 40) and younger who was. Perhaps I just had a good environment but if this were so common in my lifetime, I am sure I would have heard about some of it.

    (2) Look at an article like this:
    https://time.com/longform/boy-scouts-sex-abuse/

    All the victims are ages 56-70. Those people would have been abused in the 1960s and 1970s.

    I get the same impression with the Catholic Church abuse scandal: All the victims seem quite old.

    (2) With helicopter parenting and sexual abuse scandals having blown up, I just can’t see a middle aged guy having a ‘special relationship’ with a boy not his own and not have it set off alarm bells among almost everybody these days. Everyone wants to report everyone else now — I mean how many times have I been glared at scolded in the last year for having my nose poking out of my mask?

    If these scolds had a neighborhood weirdo/pervert to report, how fulfilled and important they would feel!

    (3) My sense is that the reason so much old stuff is coming out now is because of how much the social standards have changed. Something that people lived with in 1970 is now unspeakably evil. Doesn’t it seem like you’d have to be completely insane to try something like that today?

  40. @216
    @dfordoom

    The Culture Industry has condemned tobacco, but legitimized cannabis.

    There is no logic to this distinction, only liberalism.

    Use of cannabis subverts traditional notions of morality, and promotes laziness.

    It's not a matter of chemistry, nor is it a matter of policy. Most people don't think that way. It's an emotional/cultural matter.

    Recreational drug use is a morally shameful act, and conservatives don't say this anymore. Regardless of what the drug policy should be, it is now cultural conservatism which is morally shamed. And that's wrong.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    The Culture Industry has condemned tobacco, but legitimized cannabis.

    There is no logic to this distinction, only liberalism.

    I agree.

    So I assume that, in the interests of avoiding hypocrisy, you’re in favour of the prohibition of tobacco and alcohol and all mind-altering drugs including antidepressants?

    Use of cannabis subverts traditional notions of morality, and promotes laziness.

    It’s possible that the prohibition of drugs in the first place is what caused the drug culture to develop as an anti-social oppositional culture. When you criminalise a section of the population you can hardly complain when those people become oppositional.

    Recreational drug use is a morally shameful act

    Lots of things are considered morally shameful acts by various people. Should the government make all such acts illegal and arrest people for committing those acts? Is it the government’s role to act as a moral policeman, enforcing your particular moral code on the rest of the population? Because that seems to be what you’d like.

    Take note that the survey did not say anything about how conservatives actually feel about drugs. It merely surveyed their views on whether it was the government’s role to enforce a particular moral code.

    And before you accuse me of being a pot-head I personally dislike marijuana intensely and wouldn’t touch the stuff with a barge pole. I’m just not convinced that prohibition is either workable or desirable.

    • Replies: @216
    @dfordoom

    Your error was in assuming that I advocate a prohibitionist position on cannabis. I repeatedly said that the issue is cultural, not one of policy.

    Indeed, part of the reason I want legal and regulated sale of cannabis is to make the drug "uncool".

    What I am against, first and foremost, is "drug normalization".


    I’m just not convinced that prohibition is either workable or desirable.
     
    It is workable, provided there is political will. The West's individualism works against prohibition, but one cannot ignore the reality that cultural elites dictate many tastes.

    This is also tied in with conservatives reluctance to regulate the pharmaceutical industry.

    Replies: @DanHessinMD

  41. 216 says: • Website
    @dfordoom
    @216


    The Culture Industry has condemned tobacco, but legitimized cannabis.

    There is no logic to this distinction, only liberalism.
     
    I agree.

    So I assume that, in the interests of avoiding hypocrisy, you're in favour of the prohibition of tobacco and alcohol and all mind-altering drugs including antidepressants?

    Use of cannabis subverts traditional notions of morality, and promotes laziness.
     
    It's possible that the prohibition of drugs in the first place is what caused the drug culture to develop as an anti-social oppositional culture. When you criminalise a section of the population you can hardly complain when those people become oppositional.

    Recreational drug use is a morally shameful act
     
    Lots of things are considered morally shameful acts by various people. Should the government make all such acts illegal and arrest people for committing those acts? Is it the government's role to act as a moral policeman, enforcing your particular moral code on the rest of the population? Because that seems to be what you'd like.

    Take note that the survey did not say anything about how conservatives actually feel about drugs. It merely surveyed their views on whether it was the government's role to enforce a particular moral code.

    And before you accuse me of being a pot-head I personally dislike marijuana intensely and wouldn't touch the stuff with a barge pole. I'm just not convinced that prohibition is either workable or desirable.

    Replies: @216

    Your error was in assuming that I advocate a prohibitionist position on cannabis. I repeatedly said that the issue is cultural, not one of policy.

    Indeed, part of the reason I want legal and regulated sale of cannabis is to make the drug “uncool”.

    What I am against, first and foremost, is “drug normalization”.

    I’m just not convinced that prohibition is either workable or desirable.

    It is workable, provided there is political will. The West’s individualism works against prohibition, but one cannot ignore the reality that cultural elites dictate many tastes.

    This is also tied in with conservatives reluctance to regulate the pharmaceutical industry.

    • Replies: @DanHessinMD
    @216

    "Indeed, part of the reason I want legal and regulated sale of cannabis is to make the drug “uncool”."

    Agree.

    Cannabis is a great cancer drug, because it gives chemo patients their appetites back.

    So put in a section labeled "weight-gain products for cancer patients".

  42. @216
    @dfordoom

    Your error was in assuming that I advocate a prohibitionist position on cannabis. I repeatedly said that the issue is cultural, not one of policy.

    Indeed, part of the reason I want legal and regulated sale of cannabis is to make the drug "uncool".

    What I am against, first and foremost, is "drug normalization".


    I’m just not convinced that prohibition is either workable or desirable.
     
    It is workable, provided there is political will. The West's individualism works against prohibition, but one cannot ignore the reality that cultural elites dictate many tastes.

    This is also tied in with conservatives reluctance to regulate the pharmaceutical industry.

    Replies: @DanHessinMD

    “Indeed, part of the reason I want legal and regulated sale of cannabis is to make the drug “uncool”.”

    Agree.

    Cannabis is a great cancer drug, because it gives chemo patients their appetites back.

    So put in a section labeled “weight-gain products for cancer patients”.

  43. @prime noticer
    A Brief History of Reparation's Win - 2029

    A Brief History of Amnesty's Win - 2031

    A Brief History of Heroin's Win - 2034

    A Brief History of Prostitution's Win - 2037

    A Brief History of China's Defeat of The United States - 2059

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @Almost Missouri, @Audacious Epigone

    That’s a conservative timeline.

    Heh heh.

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